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Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 12:58:16 +0100
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From: Andrea J Chee <andrea@bloodaxe.com>
Subject: Re: (OT) Words (was Re: Guy)
References: <F85ymQ1WE9ql2RkeS8Y000118c4@hotmail.com>
 <001801c10af5$80cd7ba0$9d41fc9e@oemcomputer>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 12:58:16 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: Andrea J Chee <andrea@bloodaxe.com>
Subject: Re: (OT) Words (was Re: Guy)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

In article <001801c10af5$80cd7ba0$9d41fc9e@oemcomputer>, James Young
<jajy@earthlink.net> writes

>    Dictionary.org, I believe it was, has some doozies that I
>caught.  And all of them (excepting the OED version online which one
>needs a subscription to use anyway) are usage dictionaries from my
>experience and so give precedence to the most common pronunciation,
>even if that pronunciation is wrong.

Interestingly, my OED (the two-volume 'Shorter' since I still haven't
been able to justify shelling out the cash for the full beast) quotes
only the 'fort' pronunciation for the meaning in question.

- ANDREA

-- 
  Get PAID for the emails you already send and receive! 
http://www.mailround.com/  Referrer: andrea@bloodaxe.com
^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^
                  ANDROMEDA - Internet Goddess
<andrea@bloodaxe.com>                    http://www.bloodaxe.com/
Bloodaxe's History Links:   http://www.geocities.com/Athens/5055/
The Loony Bin Archive:               http://loonies.net800.co.uk/



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From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: (OT) Words (was Re: Guy)
Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 23:33:06 +0800
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*** EOOH ***
From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: (OT) Words (was Re: Guy)
Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 23:33:06 +0800
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I always have said it For-tay, as in "Swimming is not my forté" meaning
not so good at it. As far as I know that’s how most everyone I know here
in oz would say and interpret it it. 

Fort by itself is a completely different word pertaining to large
building made of rock with archers in the towers and pitch and naptha
ready to be poured upon the wall scalers. Unless you are speaking of the
ubiquitous "Pillow Fort" known by most people who were ever children.

CW

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu 
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Andrea J Chee
> Sent: Friday, 13 July 2001 7:58 PM
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Subject: Re: (OT) Words (was Re: Guy)
> 
> 
> In article <001801c10af5$80cd7ba0$9d41fc9e@oemcomputer>, James Young
> <jajy@earthlink.net> writes
> 
> >    Dictionary.org, I believe it was, has some doozies that I
> >caught.  And all of them (excepting the OED version online which one
> >needs a subscription to use anyway) are usage dictionaries from my
> >experience and so give precedence to the most common pronunciation,
> >even if that pronunciation is wrong.
> 
> Interestingly, my OED (the two-volume 'Shorter' since I still haven't
> been able to justify shelling out the cash for the full beast) quotes
> only the 'fort' pronunciation for the meaning in question.
> 
> - ANDREA
> 
> -- 
>   Get PAID for the emails you already send and receive! 
> http://www.mailround.com/  Referrer: andrea@bloodaxe.com
> ^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^
>                   ANDROMEDA - Internet Goddess
> <andrea@bloodaxe.com>                    http://www.bloodaxe.com/
> Bloodaxe's History Links:   http://www.geocities.com/Athens/5055/
> The Loony Bin Archive:               http://loonies.net800.co.uk/
> 



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From: "Ragnar E. Sørensen" <ragnares@online.no>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
References: <000701c10b4a$8f7ca2c0$fe564382@firestorm>
Subject: Re: [OT] Merlin
Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 20:12:15 +0200
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Ragnar E. Sørensen" <ragnares@online.no>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: [OT] Merlin
Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 20:12:15 +0200
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

That's the one David.

Well seeing as I interpret the feedback as positive and after all that it is
only $10, I'll be off to get it about now. Of course if there is one thing I
hate almost as much as buying books I don't like, its buying films I don't
like, in both cases price doesn't matter, I'd rather throw $10 out the
window or use it as toilet paper than buy a bad book/movie with it. Of
course $10 is also 4.5 frozen pizza's or so, the food with all the
nutritions (tomato sauce, ham, peppers and cheese) a student need to
survive. <g>

I guess finding a film that isn't a "digest" version of any good book, story
or legend isn't all that easy anyway? At least now I know what I will be
doing for about 150 minutes or so later today. ;-)

Thank you all for helping me make up my mind.

Sincerely,
Ragnar E. Sørensen



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From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
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References: <002b01c10bb1$1e6f1d80$2100a8c0@pengelley.com>
Subject: Re: (OT) Words (was Re: Guy)
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: (OT) Words (was Re: Guy)
Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 15:49:33 -0500
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu



> I always have said it For-tay, as in "Swimming is not my forté" meaning
> not so good at it. As far as I know that's how most everyone I know here
> in oz would say and interpret it it.

Which is wrong (I won't debate the "languages change by popular
demand" argument right now).  Again most people mistake skill at
something pronunciation for the musical sound decription
pronunciation.  It is a VERY common error.  As are a lot of other
mispronounced words.  It doesn't help that the Journalists don't
seem to get it right either.

> Fort by itself is a completely different word pertaining to large
> building made of rock with archers in the towers and pitch and naptha
> ready to be poured upon the wall scalers. Unless you are speaking of the
> ubiquitous "Pillow Fort" known by most people who were ever children.

Forte's definitions have been posted as have the pronunciation
guides as the AHD states, and I assume some of you who have regular
access to the OED could post those.  But the topic has dragged out
far enough from the origional topic to warrent this going to private
e-mail from here on out.




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From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
References: <F85ymQ1WE9ql2RkeS8Y000118c4@hotmail.com> <001801c10af5$80cd7ba0$9d41fc9e@oemcomputer> <475kTECYJuT7EwJ6@bloodaxe.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: (OT) Words (was Re: Guy)
Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 15:45:52 -0500
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: (OT) Words (was Re: Guy)
Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 15:45:52 -0500
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

    That is probably because people in the UK still have a grasp on
the English Language. American pop culture (which is the guilty
party for a lot of mispronunciations) coupled with poor initial
education in English grammar generally doesn't do too much for the
language as a whole.
    I personally prefer the OED but will so with the AHD until I can
do s you wish to: Justify the cost of the full OED.

> >    Dictionary.org, I believe it was, has some doozies that I
> >caught.  And all of them (excepting the OED version online which one
> >needs a subscription to use anyway) are usage dictionaries from my
> >experience and so give precedence to the most common pronunciation,
> >even if that pronunciation is wrong.
>
> Interestingly, my OED (the two-volume 'Shorter' since I still haven't
> been able to justify shelling out the cash for the full beast) quotes
> only the 'fort' pronunciation for the meaning in question.
>
> - ANDREA
>



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From: "Scott Shablak" <flordecor@ameritech.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Raising the dead
Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 17:24:56 -0400
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From: "Scott Shablak" <flordecor@ameritech.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Raising the dead
Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 17:24:56 -0400
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I know that a while back the origin of the World Series and it's name
was debated for a while.  I came across a debunking web page that was
about the same topic.  This seems to refute the answer I thought was
the most convincing, which was also the one Ray provided.
http://www.snopes2.com/business/names/worldser.htm

I was hoping that Ray might take a look and give his input.  

Thanks
Scott Shablak

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Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 16:49:28 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Raising the dead
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On Friday, July 13, 2001, at 02:24 PM, Scott Shablak wrote:

> I know that a while back the origin of the World Series and it's name 
> was debated for a while.  I came across a debunking web page that was 
> about the same topic.  This seems to refute the answer I thought was 
> the most convincing, which was also the one Ray provided.
> http://www.snopes2.com/business/names/worldser.htm
>  
> I was hoping that Ray might take a look and give his input. 
>  
> Thanks
> Scott Shablak


That's what I had always been told, so it's a well established urban 
myth if that's what it is.

Best, R.E.F.

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From: John <john@crydee.com>
Subject: Re: Murder in Lamut
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Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com> writes
>About 100+ pages and in November.
>
>Best, R.E.F.

Ray, where does it come in the time line ? Before Honoured Enemy After ? 
Do you have an approximate reference in the Riftwar where we can place 
it in the timeline

Also is there a name for the Jimmy the Hand Story, which we know from 
what you have said starts with Arutha giving him his Rapier at the docks 
of Krondor

BTW if you decide to change any of those 100 pages, I am sure there are 
a few of us who could decorate our rooms with them, very unique 
wallpaper.

best
-- 
John

john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.

Raymond E Feist Ring
http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm



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From: "niko korhonen" <biisoni@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Finnish top ten
Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2001 10:01:24 -0000
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Hi!
Just wanted to say that The Finnish Bookstore
(biggest chain of bookstores in Finland) lists
TOTG as number 7. in their English Paperback Top
Ten list. It's the only fantasy book among Patricia
Cornwell, Tom Clancy etc. So I guess Ray's doing pretty
well up here in the north too!

Niko Korhonen
Biisoni@Hotmail.com

'One of the major mistakes people make is that
they think manners are only the expression of
happy ideas.'

_________________________________________________________________________
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From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: RE: (OT) Words (was Re: Guy)
Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2001 13:18:48 
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From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: RE: (OT) Words (was Re: Guy)
Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2001 13:18:48 
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I too, can not justify the expense of the OED, though if anyone would like 
to make a donation....

Anyhow, I used a few online dictionaries. I'll take your word that they are 
usage dictionaries. One was http://dictionary.cambridge.org, the other 
dictionary.com

I would like to subscribe to the OED online but the price is outrageous. 
Think of how many online porn subscriptions I could get for that price. 
(Evil Grin!)

Anyhow, I didn't actually realize that there was a difference between a 
usage dictinary and a (non-usage)? dictionary. I always assumed that a 
language was fluid and if a dictionary showed a particular pronunciation as 
the most common, then it was also the most correct, even if that was not the 
most common (and most correct) pronunciation some time in the past.

I stand corrected. And since I do not have access to an OED, I will have to 
bow to your superior knowledge, or at least superior access to resources. 
(Again, Evil Grin).

Adieu

Jimmy

PS, what is more correct? "Often" pronounced with or witout the T. I always 
thought it was without the T, but more and more I hear people pronouncing it 
with the T. It kinda aggravates me and I don't know why.


>From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
>Subject: RE: (OT) Words (was Re: Guy)
>Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 23:33:06 +0800
>
>I always have said it For-tay, as in "Swimming is not my forté" meaning
>not so good at it. As far as I know that?s how most everyone I know here
>in oz would say and interpret it it.
>
>Fort by itself is a completely different word pertaining to large
>building made of rock with archers in the towers and pitch and naptha
>ready to be poured upon the wall scalers. Unless you are speaking of the
>ubiquitous "Pillow Fort" known by most people who were ever children.
>
>CW
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Andrea J Chee
> > Sent: Friday, 13 July 2001 7:58 PM
> > To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > Subject: Re: (OT) Words (was Re: Guy)
> >
> >
> > In article <001801c10af5$80cd7ba0$9d41fc9e@oemcomputer>, James Young
> > <jajy@earthlink.net> writes
> >
> > >    Dictionary.org, I believe it was, has some doozies that I
> > >caught.  And all of them (excepting the OED version online which one
> > >needs a subscription to use anyway) are usage dictionaries from my
> > >experience and so give precedence to the most common pronunciation,
> > >even if that pronunciation is wrong.
> >
> > Interestingly, my OED (the two-volume 'Shorter' since I still haven't
> > been able to justify shelling out the cash for the full beast) quotes
> > only the 'fort' pronunciation for the meaning in question.
> >
> > - ANDREA
> >
> > --
> >   Get PAID for the emails you already send and receive!
> > http://www.mailround.com/  Referrer: andrea@bloodaxe.com
> > ^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^
> >                   ANDROMEDA - Internet Goddess
> > <andrea@bloodaxe.com>                    http://www.bloodaxe.com/
> > Bloodaxe's History Links:   http://www.geocities.com/Athens/5055/
> > The Loony Bin Archive:               http://loonies.net800.co.uk/
> >
>

_________________________________________________________________
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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: (OT) Words (was Re: Guy)
Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2001 13:20:54 
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From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: (OT) Words (was Re: Guy)
Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2001 13:20:54 
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Question, is AHD the American Heritage Dictionary????

Adieu

Jimmy


>From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
>Subject: Re: (OT) Words (was Re: Guy)
>Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 15:45:52 -0500
>
>     That is probably because people in the UK still have a grasp on
>the English Language. American pop culture (which is the guilty
>party for a lot of mispronunciations) coupled with poor initial
>education in English grammar generally doesn't do too much for the
>language as a whole.
>     I personally prefer the OED but will so with the AHD until I can
>do s you wish to: Justify the cost of the full OED.
>
> > >    Dictionary.org, I believe it was, has some doozies that I
> > >caught.  And all of them (excepting the OED version online which
>one
> > >needs a subscription to use anyway) are usage dictionaries from
>my
> > >experience and so give precedence to the most common
>pronunciation,
> > >even if that pronunciation is wrong.
> >
> > Interestingly, my OED (the two-volume 'Shorter' since I still
>haven't
> > been able to justify shelling out the cash for the full beast)
>quotes
> > only the 'fort' pronunciation for the meaning in question.
> >
> > - ANDREA
> >
>
Q
_________________________________________________________________
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Subject: Re: Murder in Lamut
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Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2001 08:13:37 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Murder in Lamut
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On Friday, July 13, 2001, at 11:08 PM, John wrote:

> Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com> writes
>> About 100+ pages and in November.
>>
>> Best, R.E.F.
>
> Ray, where does it come in the time line ? Before Honoured Enemy 
> After ? Do you have an approximate reference in the Riftwar where we 
> can place it in the timeline

It's about two years prior to HE.

>
> Also is there a name for the Jimmy the Hand Story, which we know from 
> what you have said starts with Arutha giving him his Rapier at the 
> docks of Krondor

Yes, the book is titled Jimmy the Hand.
>
> BTW if you decide to change any of those 100 pages, I am sure there are 
> a few of us who could decorate our rooms with them, very unique 
> wallpaper.
>

John, you're beginning to scare me.

Best, R.E.F.

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From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: The Sauur and the Thunderhell Stepps
Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2001 16:20:55 
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From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: The Sauur and the Thunderhell Stepps
Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2001 16:20:55 
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Since it has come to my attention that all of the posts that I have 
"initiated" have been sent in HTML,(unbeknowst to me until recently) and 
that many of you could not read them, I'm posting this question again. I'm 
pretty sure I got the HTML thing corrected. Anyhow, here goes:

While rereading Shards of a Broken Crown, I came upon the section around 
page 125 where it is reported to Prince Patrick that the Sauur have attacked 
and butched a group of Kingdom Soldiers just south of the Thunderhell 
Stepps, as a warning that the Thunderhell Stepps are now claimed as Sauur 
territory. Patrick is pissed for two reasons:

	1. The Sauur have butched Kingdom soldiers
	2. The Sauur have annexed Kingdom territory.

Everything I have read previously seems to indicate that the Thunderhell 
Stepps are outside of the Kingdom. (Most of my information comes from 
Silverthorn and Darkness at Sethanon as these two books deal most 
extensively with the Northlands). I was under the impression that Yabon 
Duchy was the border with the Northlands and that it was Yabon Duchy that 
monitored all the passes against goblin and Moredhel incursions, especially 
the Inclindel Gap, which lead from the Northlands into Kingdom territory.

To get to my question. Is this correct? Is it truly the Thunderhell Stepps 
that Ray is talking about? If so, when did the Kingdom annex the Thunderhell 
Stepps section of the Northlands? I know there was talk about bringing 
Armengar into the Kingdom while Arutha, Martin, and Jimmy were there, but 
there was never anything officially said about it.

If this is not the correct area, then where is it actually that the Sauur 
have annexed?

Thanks for any insight you can give me.

Adieu

Jimmy
_________________________________________________________________
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From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re: The Sauur and the Thunderhell Stepps
Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2001 17:40:41 
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Excuse me, I mean butchered. I wouldn't want to presume about the Sauur's 
sexual preferences or outward Masculine/Feminine physical attributes.

Adieu

Jimmy

>From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: The Sauur and the Thunderhell Stepps
>Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2001 16:20:55
>
>Since it has come to my attention that all of the posts that I have
>"initiated" have been sent in HTML,(unbeknowst to me until recently) and
>that many of you could not read them, I'm posting this question again. I'm
>pretty sure I got the HTML thing corrected. Anyhow, here goes:
>
>While rereading Shards of a Broken Crown, I came upon the section around
>page 125 where it is reported to Prince Patrick that the Sauur have 
>attacked
>and butched a group of Kingdom Soldiers just south of the Thunderhell
>Stepps, as a warning that the Thunderhell Stepps are now claimed as Sauur
>territory. Patrick is pissed for two reasons:
>
>	1. The Sauur have butched Kingdom soldiers
>	2. The Sauur have annexed Kingdom territory.
>
>Everything I have read previously seems to indicate that the Thunderhell
>Stepps are outside of the Kingdom. (Most of my information comes from
>Silverthorn and Darkness at Sethanon as these two books deal most
>extensively with the Northlands). I was under the impression that Yabon
>Duchy was the border with the Northlands and that it was Yabon Duchy that
>monitored all the passes against goblin and Moredhel incursions, especially
>the Inclindel Gap, which lead from the Northlands into Kingdom territory.
>
>To get to my question. Is this correct? Is it truly the Thunderhell Stepps
>that Ray is talking about? If so, when did the Kingdom annex the 
>Thunderhell
>Stepps section of the Northlands? I know there was talk about bringing
>Armengar into the Kingdom while Arutha, Martin, and Jimmy were there, but
>there was never anything officially said about it.
>
>If this is not the correct area, then where is it actually that the Sauur
>have annexed?
>
>Thanks for any insight you can give me.
>
>Adieu
>
>Jimmy
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
>

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com



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[snip]


> John, you're beginning to scare me.

Only beginning? I thought it would be in the advanced stages of fear by
now :)

> Best, R.E.F.

CW



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S
p
o
i
l
e
r

s
p
a
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e



> While rereading Shards of a Broken Crown, I came upon the section around
> page 125 where it is reported to Prince Patrick that the Sauur have attacked
> and butched a group of Kingdom Soldiers just south of the Thunderhell
> Stepps, as a warning that the Thunderhell Stepps are now claimed as Sauur
> territory. Patrick is pissed for two reasons:
> 	1. The Sauur have butched Kingdom soldiers
> 	2. The Sauur have annexed Kingdom territory.

Patrick didn't know that the Sauur had annexed the Thunderhell Steppes.
Pug is told that in coversation with Jawar (i think thats his name)

> To get to my question. Is this correct? Is it truly the Thunderhell Stepps
> that Ray is talking about? If so, when did the Kingdom annex the Thunderhell
> Stepps section of the Northlands? I know there was talk about bringing
> Armengar into the Kingdom while Arutha, Martin, and Jimmy were there, but
> there was never anything officially said about it.

I think the thunderhell steppes are below the duchies of Northwarden,
Ironpass etc etc. Not in Moredhel territory.

> If this is not the correct area, then where is it actually that the Sauur
> have annexed?

Thanks
Darragh
-=-=
www.iamtheporkfireman.com
[Email]: s356179@student.uq.edu.au [ICQ]: 114283262



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From: "Jason Martin" <res0b95g@verizon.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: OT:  Final Fantasy and the Riftwar
Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2001 23:20:31 -0700
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Jason Martin" <res0b95g@verizon.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: OT:  Final Fantasy and the Riftwar
Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2001 23:20:31 -0700
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Ok, just got done watching this movie, and I was very impressed with the
visuals.  I believe this movie will be tough to beat in the years to come
for CGI movies.  In fact the only team that can beat this movie, is the team
that made it (Square Movies).  I can honestly say that I would love to see a
riftwar Movie done with this style. Flame me if you will, but I think this
style of movie has the best chance of capturing the essence and style of
Ray's books.
    And yes there were times in the Final Fantasy movie where I could not
believe they were not real characters..  They looked that damn good. Not
sure what movies prices are around the globe, but this movie was worth my $8
to see.  If you are looking for a Visual Stunning movie then this is the
movie to see, and the story line was pretty decent too! =)

Later,

Jason
"Mas Tequila!"
       Red Vodoo- Sammy Hagar



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Subject: Re: Final Fantasy and the Riftwar
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Roberts" <jroberts6@vtown.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Final Fantasy and the Riftwar
Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2001 19:37:35 +1000
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Jason Martin" <res0b95g@verizon.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2001 4:20 PM
Subject: OT: Final Fantasy and the Riftwar


> Ok, just got done watching this movie, and I was very impressed with the
> visuals.  I believe this movie will be tough to beat in the years to come
> for CGI movies.  In fact the only team that can beat this movie, is the team
> that made it (Square Movies).  I can honestly say that I would love to see a
> riftwar Movie done with this style. Flame me if you will, but I think this
> style of movie has the best chance of capturing the essence and style of
> Ray's books.
>     And yes there were times in the Final Fantasy movie where I could not
> believe they were not real characters..  They looked that damn good. Not
> sure what movies prices are around the globe, but this movie was worth my $8
> to see.  If you are looking for a Visual Stunning movie then this is the
> movie to see, and the story line was pretty decent too! =)
>
> Later,
>
> Jason
> "Mas Tequila!"
>        Red Vodoo- Sammy Hagar
>
    Does the plot, halfway through the movie make a confusing & unexpecting
u-turn? Because if it doesn't then it isn't really Final Fantasy. I'm not
saying plot u-turns are a bad thing, its just that is what I am use to. By
the way I have to confess I have just become addicted to one of the most
addictive drugs known to mankind. Its called Everquest. God help me.

Jamie



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Subject: Re: Final Fantasy and the Riftwar
Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2001 04:51:15 -0700
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*** EOOH ***
From: kuros@pgtv.net (kuros)
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Final Fantasy and the Riftwar
Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2001 04:51:15 -0700
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I thought the visuals in the Final Fantasy Movie were very good, though the
lines were, in my opinion, a trifle goofy. The storyline was ok, but not the
best. Kinda reminded of a sci-fi mutated Captain Planet episode. =) Was
worth my $4.50.

Jamie, if you're on the Tribunal server, look me up. =) I recently went back
to EQ after 8 months abstinence. I wish they had a 12 step program for EQ,
like they do with smoking...maybe an EQers Anonymous? Say goodbye to your
social life, grades, family, and healthy food.

Kuros
----- Original Message -----
From: "James Roberts" <jroberts6@vtown.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2001 2:37 AM
Subject: Re: Final Fantasy and the Riftwar


>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jason Martin" <res0b95g@verizon.net>
> To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2001 4:20 PM
> Subject: OT: Final Fantasy and the Riftwar
>
>
> > Ok, just got done watching this movie, and I was very impressed with the
> > visuals.  I believe this movie will be tough to beat in the years to come
> > for CGI movies.  In fact the only team that can beat this movie, is the
> team
> > that made it (Square Movies).  I can honestly say that I would love to see
> a
> > riftwar Movie done with this style. Flame me if you will, but I think this
> > style of movie has the best chance of capturing the essence and style of
> > Ray's books.
> >     And yes there were times in the Final Fantasy movie where I could not
> > believe they were not real characters..  They looked that damn good. Not
> > sure what movies prices are around the globe, but this movie was worth my
> $8
> > to see.  If you are looking for a Visual Stunning movie then this is the
> > movie to see, and the story line was pretty decent too! =)
> >
> > Later,
> >
> > Jason
> > "Mas Tequila!"
> >        Red Vodoo- Sammy Hagar
> >
>     Does the plot, halfway through the movie make a confusing & unexpecting
> u-turn? Because if it doesn't then it isn't really Final Fantasy. I'm not
> saying plot u-turns are a bad thing, its just that is what I am use to. By
> the way I have to confess I have just become addicted to one of the most
> addictive drugs known to mankind. Its called Everquest. God help me.
>
> Jamie
>



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Subject: Re: Final Fantasy and the Riftwar
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*** EOOH ***
From: "A Irving" <aignome@dingoblue.net.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Final Fantasy and the Riftwar
Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2001 20:17:02 +1000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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I get a uni discount at my local Birch, carrol and coyle-megaplex cinema,
such that I only have to pay $6 AU but it is normally about $12 for an adult
From: Jason Martin <res0b95g@verizon.net>
[snip]
> Not
> sure what movies prices are around the globe, but this movie was worth my $8
> to see.  If you are looking for a Visual Stunning movie then this is the
> movie to see, and the story line was pretty decent too! =)
>
> Later,
> Jason
CIAO,
          Aaron

http://www.nightshadow.co.uk
http://www.hallofworlds.net/kerr/main.php



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Subject: Re: [OT] Merlin
Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2001 05:13:50 -0700
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*** EOOH ***
From: kuros@pgtv.net (kuros)
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: [OT] Merlin
Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2001 05:13:50 -0700
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Hmm. I believe they have a novelization of the Merlin movie. Its several
novels, actually. The first one is called "The Old Magic", or something. I
haven't had a chance to read it yet. I definetly liked the movie, one of the
better Merlin stories I've seen/read.

Kuros
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Ragnar E. Sørensen" <ragnares@online.no>
>To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
>Sent: Friday, July 13, 2001 11:12 AM
>Subject: Re: [OT] Merlin
>
>
>That's the one David.
>
>Well seeing as I interpret the feedback as positive and after all that it is
>only $10, I'll be off to get it about now. Of course if there is one thing I
>hate almost as much as buying books I don't like, its buying films I don't
>like, in both cases price doesn't matter, I'd rather throw $10 out the
>window or use it as toilet paper than buy a bad book/movie with it. Of
>course $10 is also 4.5 frozen pizza's or so, the food with all the
>nutritions (tomato sauce, ham, peppers and cheese) a student need to
>survive. <g>
>
>I guess finding a film that isn't a "digest" version of any good book, story
>or legend isn't all that easy anyway? At least now I know what I will be
>doing for about 150 minutes or so later today. ;-)
>
>Thank you all for helping me make up my mind.
>
>Sincerely,
>Ragnar E. Sørensen
>



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Subject: Re: conDoin Family Crest
Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2001 13:50:57 +0100
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Subject: Re: conDoin Family Crest
Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2001 13:50:57 +0100
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The idea of sharing our collective works seems like a good one to me. With
this in mind I have the follwoing questions:

1. I know that the site says you can't use the images elsewhere but I
thought I'd ask anyway - cna I use the images from Elvandar.

2. I just realised thta I should really ask Ray if I can have permission to
put stuff up on the web about his works, if its not a legal requirement
(which I am not sure about), its at least polite, so - Ray, are you ok with
me putting information about your works up on the web in this format?

3. Does anyone else have any information/fan art etc that they would be
happy to part with? I make no clamis to keep the information provided in the
format provided, but any contributors will be fully acknowledged.

James :-)

----- Original Message -----
From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Friday, July 06, 2001 9:26 AM
Subject: Re: conDoin Family Crest


> Speaking of all this I went through most people's listed websites
> (i.e. the ring and the ones listed in the FFML) and have noted:
>
> 1.  A some of us (myself included) probably should not be designing
>         websites.
>
> 2.  Some of us don't have a bloody thing about Feist on our sites.
>
> 3.  Of those who do REF related websites I see a huge amount of
> crossover, this encyclopedia idea being a prime example.
>     I would think that in some cases we might be better off getting
> a collective to create, design and maintain a master site for the
> encyclopedia and use most of the rest of the sites as customized
> mirrors to the main piece.
>     Or better yet, partition the site out to various groups who
> would be willing to accurately create and maintain certain sections
> for the encyclopedia with a single site being the master link.
> Example:  let one person do the family trees.  Let another do a
> complete rundown on the various races of Midkemia.  Another gets
> kelewan.  Someone does a composite timeline etc.  The maps would
> remain in Ralph's domain, and the other major sections that are not
> typical encyclopedia (such as fan art or the book cover art which
> John has) can all find a single homes.  That way we more effectively
> utilize the massive amount of web space we have at our command.  I
> don't know about the rest of you but I have 10 megs to kick around,
> and IIRC that is considered small by a number of you.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> > http://fenyx.kell.free.fr/Gfx/midfamly.gif
> >
> > I should improve my advertising, looks like no one knows about my
> > work.
> >
> > Syl
> >
>
>



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Subject: Re: conDoin Family Crest
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From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: conDoin Family Crest
Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2001 08:11:50 -0500
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> The idea of sharing our collective works seems like a good one to me. With
> this in mind I have the follwoing questions:

Sharing yes, as in creating site specific content.  I.e. have a
single person hold a given format/topic of work.  In the case of
maps that should remain to be Mr. Askren's.

> 1. I know that the site says you can't use the images elsewhere but I
> thought I'd ask anyway - can I use the images from Elvandar.

I'll tell you right now that the answer to that will be an emphatic
no unless Ralph completely decided to scrap his entire website
(which seems highly unlikely), and even then I would gather that
John or another of us would be far more likely to end up with the
maps.  But you can wait for his personal answer, but I think he may
be on vacation or some such (unless my e-mail is buggy again)
because I havn't gotten a reply to a private e-mail I sent a week or
so ago requesting official permission to use his link graphics on my
site.

-James

(P.S. this will be my last post for a week or so, see you folks when
I get back from my biology conferance in Boston.)



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From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re: The Sauur and the Thunderhell Stepps
Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2001 13:18:41 
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I'm sorry, Patrick does receive this report, but it is on page 98 of "Shards 
of a Broken Crowm," not page 125. In any event, it seems like the land Ray 
is describing is "The High Wold". The best maps are from "A Darkness at 
Sethanon," which has a closeup map on the back cover (HARD COVER, 1986 
American Printing). It shows "The High Wold" as the area south of of the 
Border Baronies of Highcastle, Northwarden...  The Thunderhell Stepps is on 
the other (northern) side of the Teeth of the World, just northwest of the 
Border Baronies.

Adieu

Jimmy


>From: Darragh Murray Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu To: Subject: Re: The 
>Sauur and the Thunderhell Stepps Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2001 09:36:44 +1000 
>(GMT+1000)
>
>S p o i l e r
>
>s p a c e
>
>
>
> > While rereading Shards of a Broken Crown, I came upon the section around 
> > page 125 where it is reported to Prince Patrick that the Sauur have 
>attacked > and butched a group of Kingdom Soldiers just south of the 
>Thunderhell > Stepps, as a warning that the Thunderhell Stepps are now 
>claimed as Sauur > territory. Patrick is pissed for two reasons: > 1. The 
>Sauur have butched Kingdom soldiers > 2. The Sauur have annexed Kingdom 
>territory.
>
>Patrick didn't know that the Sauur had annexed the Thunderhell Steppes. Pug 
>is told that in coversation with Jawar (i think thats his name)
>
> > To get to my question. Is this correct? Is it truly the Thunderhell 
>Stepps > that Ray is talking about? If so, when did the Kingdom annex the 
>Thunderhell > Stepps section of the Northlands? I know there was talk about 
>bringing > Armengar into the Kingdom while Arutha, Martin, and Jimmy were 
>there, but > there was never anything officially said about it.
>
>I think the thunderhell steppes are below the duchies of Northwarden, 
>Ironpass etc etc. Not in Moredhel territory.
>
> > If this is not the correct area, then where is it actually that the 
>Sauur > have annexed?
>
>Thanks Darragh -=-= www.iamtheporkfireman.com [Email]: 
>s356179@student.uq.edu.au [ICQ]: 114283262
>
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com



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Subject: Re: conDoin Family Crest
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Subject: Re: conDoin Family Crest
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If I get this correctly then that means I can't use any maps on my site as
Mr Askren has the sole right?
If we go with a sole person holding a given format/topic, then that would
lead to a disjointed site as it would be across multiple servers in
different formats. I was aiming to create a one stop shop on a single server
in a single format. I just thought people might want to help out if they had
info but didn't want to have to create their own web pages/site.
>From what you say below it seems that certain areas/topics of Rays works are
pretty much sewn up in ownership by certain individuals. Is this correct? If
it is then I think I started a project that I can't really continue.

James :-)

----- Original Message -----
From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2001 2:11 PM
Subject: Re: conDoin Family Crest


> > The idea of sharing our collective works seems like a good one to
> me. With
> > this in mind I have the follwoing questions:
>
> Sharing yes, as in creating site specific content.  I.e. have a
> single person hold a given format/topic of work.  In the case of
> maps that should remain to be Mr. Askren's.
>
> > 1. I know that the site says you can't use the images elsewhere
> but I
> > thought I'd ask anyway - can I use the images from Elvandar.
>
> I'll tell you right now that the answer to that will be an emphatic
> no unless Ralph completely decided to scrap his entire website
> (which seems highly unlikely), and even then I would gather that
> John or another of us would be far more likely to end up with the
> maps.  But you can wait for his personal answer, but I think he may
> be on vacation or some such (unless my e-mail is buggy again)
> because I havn't gotten a reply to a private e-mail I sent a week or
> so ago requesting official permission to use his link graphics on my
> site.
>
> -James
>
> (P.S. this will be my last post for a week or so, see you folks when
> I get back from my biology conferance in Boston.)
>
>



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Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2001 07:50:20 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: conDoin Family Crest
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On Sunday, July 15, 2001, at 05:50 AM, James Culshaw wrote:

> The idea of sharing our collective works seems like a good one to me. 
> With
> this in mind I have the follwoing questions:
>
> 1. I know that the site says you can't use the images elsewhere but I
> thought I'd ask anyway - cna I use the images from Elvandar.
>
> 2. I just realised thta I should really ask Ray if I can have 
> permission to
> put stuff up on the web about his works, if its not a legal requirement
> (which I am not sure about), its at least polite, so - Ray, are you ok 
> with
> me putting information about your works up on the web in this format?

Your writing about my work is protected free speech in the US.  You just 
can't lift pages from my work.  See the difference?  Thanks for asking; 
I appreciate the courtesy.
>

Best, R.E.F.

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Thank you for taking the time to contact me. Be assured that I will reply to your mail directly.
Steve Moffat
15.07.2001
59



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Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2001 11:16:10 EDT
Subject: Using Images (Was Re: conDoin Family Crest)
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From: RMAskren@aol.com
Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2001 11:16:10 EDT
Subject: Using Images (Was Re: conDoin Family Crest)
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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In a message dated 7/15/01 10:01:58 AM Eastern Daylight Time, James C. wrote:
> ...thought I'd ask anyway - can I use the images from Elvandar.

To which James Y. correctly replied:

>I'll tell you right now that the answer to that will be an emphatic
>no unless Ralph completely decided to scrap his entire website
>(which seems highly unlikely), and even then I would gather that
>John or another of us would be far more likely to end up with the
>maps. But you can wait for his personal answer, but I think he may
>be on vacation or some such (unless my e-mail is buggy again)
>because I havn't gotten a reply to a private e-mail I sent a week or
>so ago requesting official permission to use his link graphics on my
>site.

My apologies to James and James...I have not been on vacation
 - just so busy with work that I have been negligent about reading
my e-mail. James Y. (and any others) are more than welcome to
use any of the "linking" graphics I have placed on the Elvandar web
site. They may be found at http://www.shoalcreek.com/feist/copyrigh.htm
This page also states my position on using the actual map images on
other web sites. Thank you both for your thoughtful consideration of
the work that I have put into creating Elvandar.com

-Ralph

Ralph M. Askren, DVM
Shoal Creek Animal Clinic. P.C.
2226 Barnett Shoals Road
Athens, GA 30605
706-369-0962 Voice
706-369-0950 Fax
http://www.shoalcreek.com
animalclinic@shoalcreek.com
rmaskren@aol.com

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From: "James Culshaw" <culshaja@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re: conDoin Family Crest
Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2001 16:39:39 +0100
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From: "James Culshaw" <culshaja@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re: conDoin Family Crest
Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2001 16:39:39 +0100
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What about using images of maps? From what I gather the only person
you have gave permission to is Ralph Askren. I am assuming that
because of this I can't use images of your maps on my site, especially
if I modify them (I have a copy of one which I have colourised like
Ralph did but not used). Could you clarify this assumption for me.

For cover art, would I have to contact Geoff Taylor (he's a nice guy,
I have mailed him before) for his permission as he does the UK book
cover art which I use, or do you have any input? I know this is
different as I am using someone elses work.

James :-)

>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: Raymond Feist 
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu 
>Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2001 3:50 PM
>Subject: Re: conDoin Family Crest
>
>On Sunday, July 15, 2001, at 05:50 AM, James Culshaw wrote:
>>The idea of sharing our collective works seems like a good one to me. With
>>this in mind I have the follwoing questions:
>>
>>1. I know that the site says you can't use the images elsewhere but I
>>thought I'd ask anyway - cna I use the images from Elvandar.
>>
>>2. I just realised thta I should really ask Ray if I can have permission to
>>put stuff up on the web about his works, if its not a legal requirement
>>(which I am not sure about), its at least polite, so - Ray, are you ok with
>>me putting information about your works up on the web in this format?
>
>
>Your writing about my work is protected free speech in the US. You
>just can't lift pages from my work. See the difference? Thanks for
>asking; I appreciate the courtesy.
>
>
>
>Best, R.E.F.

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From: Dan Lorey <dl24@cornell.edu>
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Folks,

   Be advised that having an auto-responder set up on your email account
is a very fast way to get removed from the list, because auto-responders
can cause a lot of problems.

   Dan



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Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2001 10:22:44 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: conDoin Family Crest
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On Sunday, July 15, 2001, at 08:39 AM, James Culshaw wrote:

> What about using images of maps? From what I gather the only person you 
> have gave permission to is Ralph Askren. I am assuming that because of 
> this I can't use images of your maps on my site, especially if I modify 
> them (I have a copy of one which I have colourised like Ralph did but 
> not used). Could you clarify this assumption for me.

The maps are originally created by Steve Abrams, and Ralph's versions 
are created with Steve and my permission.   You could use a copy of my 
map (from the book) with my permission or Ralph's with Ralph's 
permission.  But you do need permission, if that's what you're asking.

> For cover art, would I have to contact Geoff Taylor (he's a nice guy, I 
> have mailed him before) for his permission as he does the UK book cover 
> art which I use, or do you have any input? I know this is different as 
> I am using someone elses work.
>

I don't have any control over Geoff's art.  And you're right, he's a 
very nice guy.

Best, R.E.F.

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From: "Sonia Tabe" <sonia@nt-tech.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Weird Coincidences
Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 01:57:16 +0930
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From: "Sonia Tabe" <sonia@nt-tech.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Weird Coincidences
Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 01:57:16 +0930
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Okay folks. I'm here today to talk about coincidences.
Firstly, I was travelling home on the bus from Darwin on Saturday, where I
finished reading the novelization of the movie Tomb Raider. After that I
went on to finish reading Faerie Tale (the book by our favorite author). I
thought that it was a really strange coincidence that both of the books
mentioned something called the Illuminati (sp?). I gleaned a little
information from both books on what it was about, but gee wiz... like I
said. A coincidence...? You decide... (cue x-files music)
And secondly, when I was looking up information on the Harry Potter movie at
imdb.com, and they said that if you enjoyed the HP movie you'd also enjoy
the movie Merlin, which is what some of us have been discussing. What a
crazy world :P

~Later



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From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Desperate Men
Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 01:56:43 +0800
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I checked the FAQ, and couldn't get Donal's applet to work but it seemd
to me the the concept of the desperate men was awfully similar to that
of "The Dirty Dozen" and I was just wondering if Ray had used a similar
plot line deliberately or without even thinking about it. 

CW



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Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2001 12:01:46 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
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On Sunday, July 15, 2001, at 10:56 AM, David Pengelley wrote:

> I checked the FAQ, and couldn't get Donal's applet to work but it seemd
> to me the the concept of the desperate men was awfully similar to that
> of "The Dirty Dozen" and I was just wondering if Ray had used a similar
> plot line deliberately or without even thinking about it.
>
> CW
>
>

It's deliberate, and it's not original with The Dirty Dozen, though that 
was about as well done and as much fun as any of the various plots used 
by others has been.

Best, R.E.F.



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2001 21:38:20 +0200
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: Martin Andersen <fan2met@online.no>
Subject: Re: [OT] Merlin
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Would those 4.5 pizzas be 'Grandiosa's perchance? <g>

Martin
-----------
Si libet, licet.

At 20:12 13.07.01 +0200, you wrote:
>That's the one David.
>
>Well seeing as I interpret the feedback as positive and after all that it is
>only $10, I'll be off to get it about now. Of course if there is one thing I
>hate almost as much as buying books I don't like, its buying films I don't
>like, in both cases price doesn't matter, I'd rather throw $10 out the
>window or use it as toilet paper than buy a bad book/movie with it. Of
>course $10 is also 4.5 frozen pizza's or so, the food with all the
>nutritions (tomato sauce, ham, peppers and cheese) a student need to
>survive. <g>
>
>I guess finding a film that isn't a "digest" version of any good book, story
>or legend isn't all that easy anyway? At least now I know what I will be
>doing for about 150 minutes or so later today. ;-)
>
>Thank you all for helping me make up my mind.
>
>Sincerely,
>Ragnar E. Sørensen



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From: "James Culshaw" <culshaja@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re: conDoin Family Crest
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Subject: Re: conDoin Family Crest
Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2001 20:48:01 +0100
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Could I then have your permission to use the maps from the books, please?
If you agree what rules are there around there usage?

James :-)
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: Raymond Feist 
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu 
>Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2001 6:22 PM
>Subject: Re: conDoin Family Crest
>
>
>On Sunday, July 15, 2001, at 08:39 AM, James Culshaw wrote:
>
>
>  What about using images of maps? From what I gather the only person you have gave permission to is Ralph Askren. I am assuming that because of this I can't use images of your maps on my site, especially if I modify them (I have a copy of one which I have colourised like Ralph did but not used). Could you clarify this assumption for me.
>
>
>The maps are originally created by Steve Abrams, and Ralph's versions are created with Steve and my permission. You could use a copy of my map (from the book) with my permission or Ralph's with Ralph's permission. But you do need permission, if that's what you're asking.
>
>
>  For cover art, would I have to contact Geoff Taylor (he's a nice guy, I have mailed him before) for his permission as he does the UK book cover art which I use, or do you have any input? I know this is different as I am using someone elses work.
>
>
>
>I don't have any control over Geoff's art. And you're right, he's a very nice guy.
>
>Best, R.E.F.

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From: "David Christensen" <damc84@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Elven Dialects and Eating Utensils
Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2001 19:57:03 
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Subject: Elven Dialects and Eating Utensils
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Two questions which I think will be easy to answer :)

Do Eledhel, Eldar, Glamredhel and Moredhel speak the same language?

Do the characters in the books use eating utensils? (actually I remémber 
Erik spooning stew into his mouth, and bread cannot be slathered without a 
knife, so I guess my question is wether forks exist in Midkemia)
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Subject: Re: [OT] Merlin
Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2001 22:07:51 +0200
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Ragnar E. Sørensen" <ragnares@online.no>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: [OT] Merlin
Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2001 22:07:51 +0200
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Martin Andersen" <fan2met@online.no>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2001 9:38 PM
Subject: Re: [OT] Merlin


> Would those 4.5 pizzas be 'Grandiosa's perchance? <g>
>
> Martin
> -----------
> Si libet, licet.
>

LOL!

That would indeed be correct of you to assume. ;)

Sincerely,
Ragnar E. Sørensen



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 05:53:14 +0800
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: Shawn Chung <shawnc@cyberway.com.sg>
Subject: Re: Weird Coincidences
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>On Mon, 16 Jul 2001 01:57:16 +0930, Sonia Tabe wrote:



>Okay folks. I'm here today to talk about coincidences.
>Firstly, I was travelling home on the bus from Darwin on Saturday, where I
>finished reading the novelization of the movie Tomb Raider. After that I
>went on to finish reading Faerie Tale (the book by our favorite author). I
>thought that it was a really strange coincidence that both of the books
>mentioned something called the Illuminati (sp?). I gleaned a little
>information from both books on what it was about, but gee wiz... like I
>said. A coincidence...? You decide... (cue x-files music)

Illuminati, the Magi, etc...

They are supposed to have been around since at least biblical times, 
and have from time to time appeared in popular fiction.

For example, The Mummy 2 had the Magi as a soldier-priest cult.
-- 
Seeya Starside.

Shawn Chung

---------------------------------------
- I'd rather be ignorant than misinformed. -



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2001 15:10:15 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Elven Dialects and Eating Utensils
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On Sunday, July 15, 2001, at 07:57 PM, David Christensen wrote:

> Two questions which I think will be easy to answer :)
>
> Do Eledhel, Eldar, Glamredhel and Moredhel speak the same language?

No. But they're close, like dialects of the same language.


>
> Do the characters in the books use eating utensils? (actually I 
> remÈmber Erik spooning stew into his mouth, and bread cannot be 
> slathered without a knife, so I guess my question is wether forks exist 
> in Midkemia)
>

Yes they have forks.

Best, R.E.F.

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From: "Jonathon Cant" <fantus69@hotmail.com>
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hmmm.....a puzzling question and a very interesting one....ahh...i have no 
idea, although....you could assume that instead of actual dinner knives 
mabey they used their daggers? perhaps?.....i don't know really..but an 
interesting question nonetheless

Jonathon


>From: "David Christensen" <damc84@hotmail.com>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: feistfans-l@cornell.edu
>Subject: Elven Dialects and Eating Utensils
>Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2001 19:57:03
>
>Two questions which I think will be easy to answer :)
>
>Do Eledhel, Eldar, Glamredhel and Moredhel speak the same language?
>
>Do the characters in the books use eating utensils? (actually I remémber
>Erik spooning stew into his mouth, and bread cannot be slathered without a
>knife, so I guess my question is wether forks exist in Midkemia)
>_________________________________________________________________________
>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.
>

_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 01:12:11 -0400
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: Tom Brincefield <tomb@bright.net>
Subject: Re: Desperate Men
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At 03:01 PM 7/15/01, Raymond Feist wrote:

>On Sunday, July 15, 2001, at 10:56 AM, David Pengelley wrote:
>
>>I checked the FAQ, and couldn't get Donal's applet to work but it seemd
>>to me the the concept of the desperate men was awfully similar to that
>>of "The Dirty Dozen" and I was just wondering if Ray had used a similar
>>plot line deliberately or without even thinking about it.
>>
>>CW
>>
>
>It's deliberate, and it's not original with The Dirty Dozen, though that 
>was about as well done and as much fun as any of the various plots used by 
>others has been.
>
>Best, R.E.F.

Then they had to push it too far with the sequels. Kind of missed the
point of the movie. BTW, I haven't seen your signature lately. did you
stop using it or is something not working correctly?

                                                    Tom B.
                                                    tomb@bright.net
                                                    http://www.bright.net/`tomb
                                                    http://www.dm.net/~tom-b
______________________________________________________

"Western culture has practiced imperialistic conquest, racism,
slavery, persecution, intolerance, and oppression. So has every
other culture in the world. Only two things remain to be explained.
First, why was the West so successful at it? Second, why did
they repent?"



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Subject: Re: (OT) Words (was Re: Guy)
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At 03:45 PM 7/13/01 -0500, James Young wrote:
>    That is probably because people in the UK still have a grasp on
>the English Language. American pop culture (which is the guilty
>party for a lot of mispronunciations) coupled with poor initial
>education in English grammar generally doesn't do too much for the
>language as a whole.

Actually, (are you sitting down) the UK school system at
this time does not feel that "English Grammar" as a subject
is something that needs to be taught, ie kids pick up on
it from their parents/friends/etc, so there is no need
to "waste" precious in-school time teaching it.

I will trade the US's 'poor initial' for the UK's 'total 
and complete lack of'.  In any case, my kids'll be going
to school in Germany, probably.

The Shorter OED a) is affordable, and b) will include 99.99%
of the words you will need in your day-to-day life.  In the
case of .your. active vocabulary, James, probably only 80% ;->

rip



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Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 01:52:53 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Desperate Men
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On Sunday, July 15, 2001, at 10:12 PM, Tom Brincefield wrote:

> At 03:01 PM 7/15/01, Raymond Feist wrote:
>
>> On Sunday, July 15, 2001, at 10:56 AM, David Pengelley wrote:
>>
>>> I checked the FAQ, and couldn't get Donal's applet to work but it 
>>> seemd
>>> to me the the concept of the desperate men was awfully similar to that
>>> of "The Dirty Dozen" and I was just wondering if Ray had used a 
>>> similar
>>> plot line deliberately or without even thinking about it.
>>>
>>> CW
>>>
>>
>> It's deliberate, and it's not original with The Dirty Dozen, though 
>> that was about as well done and as much fun as any of the various 
>> plots used by others has been.
>>
>> Best, R.E.F.
>
> Then they had to push it too far with the sequels. Kind of missed the
> point of the movie. BTW, I haven't seen your signature lately. did you
> stop using it or is something not working correctly?
>
>
Small glitch in the file handler.  It's now back on, as you can see.

Best, R.E.F.


Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 12:56:58 +0100
To: feistfans-l@cornell.edu
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: feistfans-l poll questions
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Hello,

I'm setting up a poll for the feistfans-l list to
gather a bit o' data on the 'average' list member.

RESPOND OFF LIST.  This means don't use the reply button.
Doing so will leave you open to ridicule and abuse from
your friends and neighbors.

If you have any ideas for questions you would ask
other people on the list, please send them to me.
Note:  I will ignore anything .too. intrusive.  Currently,
I have four levels of questions:

Generic (age/gender/etc)
Specific (school level, etc)
Humorous
Bizarre/Off the wall

I think I'm pretty well full up on 'generic' and 'specific',
it is the funny and weird ones that I need help with.

Send questions to rip@ferkel.co.uk 

rip



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 14:14:51 +0100
To: feistfans-l@cornell.edu
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
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Hiya,

Maybe I wasn't clear.  Happens.

Anyway, I'm not asking for 'ANSWERS' yet.  I'm still asking
for 'QUESTIONS'.  So again:

If there was something you wanted to ask everybody
else on the list, send me the question and I'll add
it to the poll.  

rip



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From: "James Culshaw" <culshaja@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Ochedel
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Subject: Ochedel
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Hi,

can anyone give me the chapter/page references of where the ochedel are
first introduced?

James :-)



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The King's Buccaneer, chapter 15, two pages further

Syl



> Hi,
> 
> can anyone give me the chapter/page references of where the ochedel are
> first introduced?
> 
> James :-)
> 
> 

Fenyx Kell.



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Thanks for the help,

james :-)

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Sylvain Guehl" <fenyxkell@demo.xandmail.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Monday, July 16, 2001 7:17 PM
Subject: Re:Ochedel


> The King's Buccaneer, chapter 15, two pages further
> 
> Syl
> 
> 
> 
> > Hi,
> >
> > can anyone give me the chapter/page references of where the ochedel
> are
> > first introduced?
> >
> > James :-)
> >
> >
> 
> Fenyx Kell.
> 
> 



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Subject: Re:Ochedel
Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 13:38:14 
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Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 13:38:14 
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The first time we meet the Ocedhel is indeed in Chapter 15 of the Kings 
Buccaneer, however, the first time the word "ocedhel" is used is about 6 
pages in to chapter 6 of Shadow of a Dark Queen. Also, check your spelling, 
it is ocedhel (oc + edhel), not ochedel.

Adieu

Jimmy

PS, I have a an old (1979) copy of a college edition AHD. I looked up Forte.
All I have to say is: "I'll be damned!"

>From: "James Culshaw" <culshaja@hotmail.com>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
>Subject: Re:Ochedel
>Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 19:55:25 +0100
>
>Thanks for the help,
>
>james :-)
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Sylvain Guehl" <fenyxkell@demo.xandmail.com>
>To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
>Sent: Monday, July 16, 2001 7:17 PM
>Subject: Re:Ochedel
>
>
> > The King's Buccaneer, chapter 15, two pages further
> >
> > Syl
> >
> >
> >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > can anyone give me the chapter/page references of where the ochedel
> > are
> > > first introduced?
> > >
> > > James :-)
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Fenyx Kell.
> >
> >
>

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com



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From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
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I haven't received much mail in the past few days from the list and
suspect being dumped.

CW



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From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
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your still there....

its been pretty quiet today.

> I haven't received much mail in the past few days from the list and
> suspect being dumped.
> CW

Thanks
Darragh
-=-=
www.iamtheporkfireman.com
[Email]: s356179@student.uq.edu.au [ICQ]: 114283262



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Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 18:19:42 +0930
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Oh ya. You're still on the list. And so am I. Maybe everyone else but you,
me and Darragh Murray have left the list! j/k.



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From: "Joyce, Tony" <Tony.Joyce@eem.sthct.northy.nhs.uk>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Am I still on the list or is it just really quiet
Date:  Wed, 18 Jul 2001 09:51:27 +0100
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We're all waiting in anticipation for the release of Ray's new book :-)

-----Original Message-----
>From:	Sonia Tabe [SMTP:sonia@nt-tech.com.au]
>Sent:	Wednesday, July 18, 2001 9:50 AM
>To:	FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject:	Re: Am I still on the list or is it just really quiet
>
>Oh ya. You're still on the list. And so am I. Maybe everyone else but you,
>me and Darragh Murray have left the list! j/k.
>


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Subject: Silence
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Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 11:33:24 +0200 (CEST)
From: Michael Holzer <epicmike@yahoo.com>
Subject: Silence
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Hi there! 

It indead seems to be really quiet here. :)

I have always been more of a reader than a poster and
I anyway don't know what to write. ;)

Currently I'm reading the Serpentwar Saga for the 2nd
time and enjoying it nearly as much as the 1st time.

In Austria it's 8 books and I'm reading the 7th now.
Then the last one and after that I will try "The
Fellowship Of The Rings" which is my first original
english book. :)

After that I may look for the "past-Labyrinth Of
Shadows"-books. Which means Tear Of The Gods,...

I dunno exactly which new books are there, but I will
find out I'm sure. :)

Well, enough said for now, I suppose. :)

Have a nice day!

Mike

====I feel a change...back to a better day...hair stands on the back of my neck...in wilderness is the preservation of the world...so seek the wolf in thyself!

__________________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Gesendet von Yahoo! Mail - http://mail.yahoo.de



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Subject: Re: Am I still on the list or is it just really quiet
Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 10:49:28 +0100
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Le Vic" <Levic@tsurani.freeuk.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Am I still on the list or is it just really quiet
Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 10:49:28 +0100
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

> Oh ya. You're still on the list. And so am I. Maybe everyone else but you,
> me and Darragh Murray have left the list! j/k.
> 

My computer has been offline for the last two weeks and trust me,
the list has been anything but quiet!

All I have to do now is find the time to read best part of 400 email :)

Le Vic
"I don't believe in God, but I fear him"



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Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 06:43:19 -0700
X-PH: V4.1@cornell.edu (Cornell Modified) 
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: Alan Kellogg <mythusmage@cts.com>
Subject: Re: Am I still on the list or is it just really quiet
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 06:43:19 -0700
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: Alan Kellogg <mythusmage@cts.com>
Subject: Re: Am I still on the list or is it just really quiet
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

>I haven't received much mail in the past few days from the list and
>suspect being dumped.
>
>CW

What have we told you about eating crackers in bed. Of course you're 
being dumped. Inviting friends over all hours of the night, wearing 
the same briefs for months at a time. What did you expect? Do you 
have any idea what gas mask filters cost these days?

And about your hobbies. We don't mind you animating the dead, but you 
keep forgetting to get them embalmed first.

I don't think anybody minded the window on Mordor, but the door was 
going too far. BTW, the 101st Air Cavalry wants to talk to you about 
their casualties, and a band of orcs has started mugging people in 
Central Park.

You wonder why we're dumping you. Just look at all the things you've 
pulled. Replacing the Moon with Mars, that wasn't going to cause 
problems? And who's idea was it to invite pixies to little Mary's 
confirmation? (FYI, Sister Mildred isn't due for another five months, 
but the child is already exhibiting psychokinetic abilities, and made 
a bilocative visit to Bishop Paul's study.)

One final thing. Your dog is caught at the zoo eating the elephants 
again, you are going to be in deep trouble.

I think it's about time we dumped you. I mean, you're the first 
person to piss off the entire Vulcan race. So off with you.

You 'suspect' you're being dumped. God, some people are so clueless.

Alan
-- 
_______

Mythusmage.com, <http://www.mythusmage.com> at its new location!

mailto:mythusmage@mythusmage.com

ICQ: 103299329



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Subject: Re: Am I still on the list or is it just really quiet
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Barker" <heechee@softhome.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Am I still on the list or is it just really quiet
Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 00:04:12 +1000
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----- Original Message -----
From: Alan Kellogg <mythusmage@cts.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2001 11:43 PM
Subject: Re: Am I still on the list or is it just really quiet


> What have we told you about eating crackers in bed. Of course you're
> being dumped. Inviting friends over all hours of the night, wearing
> the same briefs for months at a time. What did you expect? Do you
> have any idea what gas mask filters cost these days?
>
> And about your hobbies. We don't mind you animating the dead, but you
> keep forgetting to get them embalmed first.
>
> I don't think anybody minded the window on Mordor, but the door was
> going too far. BTW, the 101st Air Cavalry wants to talk to you about
> their casualties, and a band of orcs has started mugging people in
> Central Park.
>
> You wonder why we're dumping you. Just look at all the things you've
> pulled. Replacing the Moon with Mars, that wasn't going to cause
> problems? And who's idea was it to invite pixies to little Mary's
> confirmation? (FYI, Sister Mildred isn't due for another five months,
> but the child is already exhibiting psychokinetic abilities, and made
> a bilocative visit to Bishop Paul's study.)
>
> One final thing. Your dog is caught at the zoo eating the elephants
> again, you are going to be in deep trouble.
>
> I think it's about time we dumped you. I mean, you're the first
> person to piss off the entire Vulcan race. So off with you.
>
> You 'suspect' you're being dumped. God, some people are so clueless.

ROFLMAO!

Is that a quote from somewhere, or do you simply have too much time on your
hands, Alan? :)

Cheers,
James



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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: Am I still on the list or is it just really quiet
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 15:24:42 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: Am I still on the list or is it just really quiet
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

At 06:43 AM 7/18/01 -0700, Alan Kellogg wrote:
>>I haven't received much mail in the past few days from the list and
>>suspect being dumped.
>>
>>CW
>
>What have we told you about eating crackers in bed. Of course you're being dumped. Inviting friends over all hours of the night, wearing the same briefs for months at a time. What did you expect? Do you have any idea what gas mask filters cost these days?


WHOOOP!

ROFLMAO too!

rip



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From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Am I still on the list or is it just really quiet
Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 23:41:26 +0800
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*** EOOH ***
From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Am I still on the list or is it just really quiet
Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 23:41:26 +0800
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Oh :( <sniff>

CW

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu 
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Alan Kellogg
> Sent: Wednesday, 18 July 2001 9:43 PM
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Subject: Re: Am I still on the list or is it just really quiet
> 
> 
> >I haven't received much mail in the past few days from the list and
> >suspect being dumped.
> >
> >CW
> 
> What have we told you about eating crackers in bed. Of course you're 
> being dumped. Inviting friends over all hours of the night, wearing 
> the same briefs for months at a time. What did you expect? Do you 
> have any idea what gas mask filters cost these days?
> 
> And about your hobbies. We don't mind you animating the dead, but you 
> keep forgetting to get them embalmed first.
> 
> I don't think anybody minded the window on Mordor, but the door was 
> going too far. BTW, the 101st Air Cavalry wants to talk to you about 
> their casualties, and a band of orcs has started mugging people in 
> Central Park.
> 
> You wonder why we're dumping you. Just look at all the things you've 
> pulled. Replacing the Moon with Mars, that wasn't going to cause 
> problems? And who's idea was it to invite pixies to little Mary's 
> confirmation? (FYI, Sister Mildred isn't due for another five months, 
> but the child is already exhibiting psychokinetic abilities, and made 
> a bilocative visit to Bishop Paul's study.)
> 
> One final thing. Your dog is caught at the zoo eating the elephants 
> again, you are going to be in deep trouble.
> 
> I think it's about time we dumped you. I mean, you're the first 
> person to piss off the entire Vulcan race. So off with you.
> 
> You 'suspect' you're being dumped. God, some people are so clueless.
> 
> Alan
> -- 
> _______
> 
> Mythusmage.com, <http://www.mythusmage.com> at its new location!
> 
mailto:mythusmage@mythusmage.com

ICQ: 103299329



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From: Peter Senser <pvsenser@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Am I still on the list or is it just really quiet
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 10:47:30 -0700 (PDT)
From: Peter Senser <pvsenser@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Am I still on the list or is it just really quiet
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


I think it is more than quiet, I checked my e-mail for
the first time in a few days yesterday and I had 2
messages from you guys.

It is almost like no one likes Mr. Feist's books any more.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail
http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/



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From: Peter Senser <pvsenser@yahoo.com>
Subject: question for Mr Feist
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 10:48:57 -0700 (PDT)
From: Peter Senser <pvsenser@yahoo.com>
Subject: question for Mr Feist
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I was just wondering how the new book is coming along.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail
http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/



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From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re: Am I still on the list or is it just really quiet
Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 18:19:07 
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From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Am I still on the list or is it just really quiet
Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 18:19:07 
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>From: Peter Senser <pvsenser@yahoo.com>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: Re: Am I still on the list or is it just really quiet
>Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 10:47:30 -0700 (PDT)
>
>
>I think it is more than quiet, I checked my e-mail for
>the first time in a few days yesterday and I had 2
>messages from you guys.

-----The reason why no one is posting is because everyone is rereading all 
of Ray's books in order to figure out just where it is that the Sauur have 
taken up residence, as it obviously is not the Thunderhell Stepps.
>
>It is almost like no one likes Mr. Feist's books any more.

-----I still do. I just hope he finds an American Publisher for Honoured 
(Honored) Enemy.

-----Adieu

-----Jimmy
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail
>http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
>

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 11:39:49 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: question for Mr Feist
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Wednesday, July 18, 2001, at 10:48 AM, Peter Senser wrote:

> I was just wondering how the new book is coming along.
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail
> http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
>
>

Which one?

Murder in LaMut is doing fine.  Talon of the Silverhawk is starting to 
gell.

Best, R.E.F.

----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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From: "Earl Borah" <earl@ncn.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 13:16:34 -0700
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Earl Borah" <earl@ncn.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 13:16:34 -0700
Subject: Re: Am I still on the list or is it just really quiet
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Priority: normal
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

> I haven't received much mail in the past few days from the list and
> suspect being dumped.

It was pretty quiet all right -- only one post all day yesterday, 
from what I see. I think that's a record.

I was concerned enough that I sent a subscription message to the 
listserver. If you do get unsubbed, you're going to have to do that 
anyway -- and if you haven't been unsubbed, you usually get a nice 
notice telling you that you're an idiot for trying to subscribe when 
you're already on the list. :)

-----
  "I dislike being wrong, and having to admit it publicly later. It's
  embarrassing, humiliating, and unnecessary. It would have been just
  as easy, and much more pleasant, to have been right in the first place."
    - Jack Richard, former Editor of Boardwatch Magazine



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From: "paul dutton" <paul_dutton@madasafish.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Am I still on the list or is it just really quiet
Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 21:35:53 +0100
Message-ID: <001e01c10fc9$3d1df0a0$3aa626d4@mcc.ac.uk>
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*** EOOH ***
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: "paul dutton" <paul_dutton@madasafish.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Am I still on the list or is it just really quiet
Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 21:35:53 +0100
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Hi It is really quiet. Here in the UK the College & University types have
just finished for the Summer Holidays, so perhaps that has an effect.
Is REF still with us....I suppose even he has to have holidays sometime?
Paul D

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Earl Borah
> Sent: 18 July 2001 21:17
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Subject: Re: Am I still on the list or is it just really quiet
>
>
> > I haven't received much mail in the past few days from the list and
> > suspect being dumped.
>
> It was pretty quiet all right -- only one post all day yesterday,
> from what I see. I think that's a record.
>
> I was concerned enough that I sent a subscription message to the
> listserver. If you do get unsubbed, you're going to have to do that
> anyway -- and if you haven't been unsubbed, you usually get a nice
> notice telling you that you're an idiot for trying to subscribe when
> you're already on the list. :)
>
> -----
>   "I dislike being wrong, and having to admit it publicly later. It's
>   embarrassing, humiliating, and unnecessary. It would have been just
>   as easy, and much more pleasant, to have been right in the first place."
>     - Jack Richard, former Editor of Boardwatch Magazine
>



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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Honored enemy
Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 17:46:23 -0400
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From: "Steve Weghorn" <pelvislives@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Honored enemy
Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 17:46:23 -0400
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Hello fellow Feist fans I was just curious if Honored Enemy was out in
the UK yet, if so I need to get ordering.
                                                                      Thanks
                                                               Steve Weghorn



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Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 18:28:26 EDT
Subject: A message from John
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*** EOOH ***
From: RMAskren@aol.com
Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 18:28:26 EDT
Subject: A message from John
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Fellow Feist Fans,

John Bunting, that collector of all things Feistian, keeper of
the Web Ring, and master of Crydee.com wishes everyone to
know he is suffering from some strange e-mail malady.
To wit, he has none and will be incommunicato for a while
on the List.
If anyone needs to reach him, he is available via ICQ at 24624452.

-Ralph
Visit Elvandar.com and the Unofficial Atlas to the Worlds of Raymond E. Feist
at http://www.elvandar.com

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Subject: pug's parents
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From: RBlackley@aol.com
Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 18:48:25 EDT
Subject: pug's parents
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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sorry if this has been asked a hundred times before!

i may have missed it entirely but is it mentioned in any of the books who 
Pug's parents are?

Richard

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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 09:23:25 +1000 (EST)
From: David Smith - NT Interoperability Engineer <David.M.Smith@Sun.COM>
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: pug's parents
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Nope, Pugs parents were just commoners... no one "special", so to speak.

-- David Smith

» sorry if this has been asked a hundred times before!
» 
» i may have missed it entirely but is it mentioned in any of the books who 
» Pug's parents are?
» 
» Richard



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From: Andrea J Chee <andrea@bloodaxe.com>
Subject: Re: Honored enemy
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Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 00:50:37 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: Andrea J Chee <andrea@bloodaxe.com>
Subject: Re: Honored enemy
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In article <F41bNDN4CxpAOAkK5Lq00000e0f@hotmail.com>, Steve Weghorn
<pelvislives@hotmail.com> writes
><html><DIV>
><DIV>Hello fellow Feist fans I was just curious if Honored Enemy was out in the 
>UK yet, if so I need to get ordering.</DIV>
><DIV>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb
>sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp
>;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&
>nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb
>sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp
>;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Thanks</DIV>
><DIV>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb
>sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp
>;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&
>nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb
>sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Steve 
>Weghorn</DIV></DIV><br clear=all><hr>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at 
><a href="http://explorer.msn.com">http://explorer.msn.com</a><br></p></html>

Amazon says 6th August. Other people may have more reliable news about
release dates. When looking it up, remember that in the UK we spell it
'honoured'.

Strongly recommend you turn off the HTML for obvious reasons!

- ANDREA

-- 
  Get PAID for the emails you already send and receive! 
http://www.mailround.com/  Referrer: andrea@bloodaxe.com
^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^
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From: Alan Mills <milla@css.com.au>
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Subject: RE: pug's parents
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*** EOOH ***
From: Alan Mills <milla@css.com.au>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: pug's parents
Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 11:08:07 +1000
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 It's not mentioned in the books anywhere. Ray has said they were, IIRC, a
maid at Crydee and a wandering mercenary. 
 
 Allan

-----Original Message-----
>From: RBlackley@aol.com [mailto:RBlackley@aol.com]
>Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2001 8:48 AM
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: pug's parents
>
>
>sorry if this has been asked a hundred times before! 
>
>i may have missed it entirely but is it mentioned in any of the books who 
>Pug's parents are? 
>
>Richard 

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*** EOOH ***
From: RBlackley@aol.com
Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 22:28:28 EDT
Subject: Re: pug's parents
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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In a message dated 7/18/2001 9:13:58 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
milla@css.com.au writes:


>  It's not mentioned in the books anywhere. Ray has said they were, IIRC, a 
> maid at Crydee and a wandering mercenary. 
>  
>  Allan
> 

thank you

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From: "Sean Gilliam" <sgilliam@neb.rr.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Magician 20th Anniversary
Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 22:20:56 -0500
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Sean Gilliam" <sgilliam@neb.rr.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Magician 20th Anniversary
Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 22:20:56 -0500
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A while back there was some talk of a 20th anniversary edition of Magician.
Is this still in the works?








I don't suffer from insanity. I enjoy every minute of it!



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Subject: An intoduction.
Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 00:33:08 -0400
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Falerin" <falerin@ultraisp.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: An intoduction.
Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 00:33:08 -0400
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Greetings All,

My name is William Donges though I am known almost universally on the net as
Falerin Ardendor. I am a pretty avid fan of Ray's works now but I must admit
it was somewhat sacrilegeous.. I was first given a copy of Magician:
Apprentice in the very late eighties or early nineties and really liked it..
I could not find the Master half at all and frankly I allowed my self to
stop reading Ray's work untill last year when I came upon a used bookstore
with Hard Cover copies of the entire Riftwar Saga which I promptly bought. I
quickly decided I liked the combined version better then the split version
of Magician and followed the rest of the works. Then hit a brick wall
getting the series of books that dealt with Arutha's children, I forced my
local library to use Interlibrary loan and get the books in question then
got ahold of the Empire series and read them voraciously. As difficult as
the process of putting them down may have been they were nonetheless
thrilling to read. I than quickly went on to read the Serpentwar Saga as
well. And have now began reading the Riftwar: Legacy books which are really
good. Sometimes books based on or inspired from games can be odd... but I
really liked Krondor: The Betrayal... I particularly liked the character of
Gorath since as a Roleplayer and a Game Master I have always stressed the
idea that to every stereotype there is something to challenge it completely.

Anyway thats about it.. I think I remember Mr. Kellogg from another list at
some point in my ancient past.. I am sure I do in fact but I don't recall
which one?

Now that I have bored everyone terribly with my rambling I will have the
audacity to ask a few questions of Ray.. I say audacity because its probably
frequently asked but well.... I am completely out of the loop as far as such
things go. And I have no idea whats coming next and when...

Anyway my general question is:
Can we expect to see a kelewan focused or even partially kelewan set novel
(like magician was) in the future? I know that its been said, in an old FAQ,
that writing another book with Janny Wurts was unlikely, but does this mean
Kelewan is a dead world literarily?



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Subject: Re: An intoduction.
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 15:00:48 +1000
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: Anestis Kozakis <kenosti@labyrinth.net.au>
Subject: Re: An intoduction.
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William Wrote :

>Anyway my general question is:
>Can we expect to see a kelewan focused or even partially kelewan set novel
>(like magician was) in the future? I know that its been said, in an old FAQ,
>that writing another book with Janny Wurts was unlikely, but does this mean
>Kelewan is a dead world literarily?

Ray has never said that writing another book with Janny was unlikely.

He said that writing another Kelewan book (with or without Janny) was 
not going to happen.

If Janny has time to work with Ray on another 
collaboration/co-authored novel, then we may see another Ray/Janny 
novel.

All we need to know about Kelewan we saw in the "Empire" trilogy, and 
anything else we see will be snippets from the Midkemia point of view.

Hmm, I think that about sums it up.

Did I miss anything?

Anestis.
-- 
kenosti@labyrinth.net.au
"A complete list of this film's associate producers
  is available upon request."
    -- In End Credits for "State and Main"



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 22:10:34 -0700 (PDT)
From: Joshua Stanton <jasharkalain@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: question for Mr Feist
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"gell"?

Miss-type or a bad dictionary? I couldn't find it.
~Joshua~

PS How is it one story can go so smoothly and the
other be such a pain?

Oh, irony.

Hope it gets better. :)

--- Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com> wrote:
> Which one?
> 
>        in LaMut is doing fine.  Talon of the
> Silverhawk is starting to 
> gell.
> 
> Best, R.E.F.
> 
> ----
> 
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be
> explained away by 
> stupidity.
> 


__________________________________________________
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Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 05:14:21 GMT
Subject: Re: Magician 20th Anniversary
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As far as I know it is still to be released next year some time in both England
& Australia.  I don't know if Ray's American publisher ever decided to release
it or not, but last I heard there were no plans for a 20th anniversary edition
in America.

What I wan't to know is if we're going to be able to get the leather bound (and
preferably Author Signed & numbered) copies of the 20th anniversary edition
of Magician.  Ray, do you know any more details - or even an approximate month
of release?  Thanks.

- MARK

>A while back there was some talk of a 20th anniversary edition of Magician.

>Is this still in the works?
>
>
>I don't suffer from insanity. I enjoy every minute of it!
>
>



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From: Alan Mills <milla@css.com.au>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: e-books
Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 16:34:21 +1000
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 Anyone got any comments on this : 
http://www.lasvegassun.com/sunbin/stories/lv-crime/2001/jul/18/512096646.htm
l


 Allan 



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Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 08:13:54 +0100
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From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: question for Mr Feist
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' to gel ', same root as ' gelatin '.  To come together
and solidify.

So it is A Good Thing when applied to a literary 
work, in this manner.

rip

At 10:10 PM 7/18/01 -0700, Joshua Stanton wrote:
>"gell"?
>
>Miss-type or a bad dictionary? I couldn't find it.
>~Joshua~
>
>PS How is it one story can go so smoothly and the
>other be such a pain?
>
>Oh, irony.
>
>Hope it gets better. :)
>
>--- Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com> wrote:
>> Which one?
>> 
>>        in LaMut is doing fine.  Talon of the
>> Silverhawk is starting to 
>> gell.
>> 
>> Best, R.E.F.
>> 
>> ----
>> 
>> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be
>> explained away by 
>> stupidity.
>> 
>
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail
>http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/



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I here talk of Honored Enemy not being released in the States, then I here 
that if there is a 20th anniversary edition of Magician, it may not be 
released Stateside either. What is the deal? Is it simply a delay in finding 
publishers here? Or are they not going to be released at all? Also, are 
there any previous R.E.F. works out there that have never been released in 
the States, and thus never made it to my collection?

Adieu

Jimmy

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp



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For Honoured Enemy, Ray has said previously that he and Mr Forstchen had
been unable to get a satisfactory deal with an American publisher, but there
is talk of HarperCollins UK exporting it to the US.

As for the 20th Aniversary edition of Magician, I believe that previously
the American publishers didn't feel that there was enough market for the
book, seeing as there has been several re-releases of the book already (most
notably the Authors Preferred Edition).  I have no idea what there current
opinion is though, this discussion took place a long time ago (last year
sometime I think).  I live in Australia, so it doesn't really bother me :-).

- MARK

----- Original Message -----
From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2001 11:40 AM
Subject: American Editions


> I here talk of Honored Enemy not being released in the States, then I here
> that if there is a 20th anniversary edition of Magician, it may not be
> released Stateside either. What is the deal? Is it simply a delay in finding
> publishers here? Or are they not going to be released at all? Also, are
> there any previous R.E.F. works out there that have never been released in
> the States, and thus never made it to my collection?
>
> Adieu
>
> Jimmy
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>



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From: "Falerin Ardendor" <falerin@ultraisp.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
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> William Wrote :
>
> >Anyway my general question is:
> >Can we expect to see a kelewan focused or even partially kelewan set novel
> >(like magician was) in the future? I know that its been said, in an old FAQ,
> >that writing another book with Janny Wurts was unlikely, but does this mean
> >Kelewan is a dead world literarily?
>
> Ray has never said that writing another book with Janny was unlikely.
>
> He said that writing another Kelewan book (with or without Janny) was
> not going to happen.
>
> If Janny has time to work with Ray on another
> collaboration/co-authored novel, then we may see another Ray/Janny
> novel.
>
> All we need to know about Kelewan we saw in the "Empire" trilogy, and
> anything else we see will be snippets from the Midkemia point of view.

Well I was going from the Raymond E. Feist FAQ (An amiditedly out of date
document) that says:

D.1. Q: Will Ray and Janny do any more books?

D.1. A: Probably not. Ray said that while the process was fun it was very
tough for both authors.

It does not mention anything about Kelewan not being written about anymore.
And the information you provided says just the opposite... So I am very
confused....

Falerin



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On Wednesday, July 18, 2001, at 11:34 PM, Alan Mills wrote:

>  Anyone got any comments on this :
> http://www.lasvegassun.com/sunbin/stories/lv-
> crime/2001/jul/18/512096646.htm
> l
>
>
>  Allan
>
>

That link is dead, Allan.  What was the story about?

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 08:52:45 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Magician 20th Anniversary
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On Wednesday, July 18, 2001, at 08:20 PM, Sean Gilliam wrote:

> A while back there was some talk of a 20th anniversary edition of 
> Magician.
> Is this still in the works?
>
>
>

Yes.  There will be a 20th Anniversary hardcover of the book in the UK.  
We're still looking to see who might want to do it in the US.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 08:49:19 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: An intoduction.
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On Wednesday, July 18, 2001, at 09:33 PM, Falerin wrote:

>

> Anyway my general question is:
> Can we expect to see a kelewan focused or even partially kelewan set 
> novel
> (like magician was) in the future? I know that its been said, in an old 
> FAQ,
> that writing another book with Janny Wurts was unlikely, but does this 
> mean
> Kelewan is a dead world literarily?
>
>


Welcome.

Kelewan will be shown in part during the 3rd Riftwar.  Janny and I may 
do another book together in the future, as part of the Legends of the 
RIftwar series.  But we won't do a full on Empire book because, 
basically, we can't think of a story we'd like to do there.  We've 
talked about it a couple of times and every time we start it it goes 
something like, "Why don't we do a story about Justin and the 
conservatives trying to go back to the old style of rulership?"  Then we 
look at each other and go, 'Naw."  We pretty much used up everything we 
had for that series.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Subject: Re: e-books
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Falerin Ardendor" <falerin@ultraisp.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: e-books
Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 11:51:44 -0400
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I cannot comment on it because the website wont open in my browser. "Path
information unrecognizable"

Shrug

Fal
----- Original Message -----
From: "Alan Mills" <milla@css.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2001 2:34 AM
Subject: e-books


> Anyone got any comments on this :
> http://www.lasvegassun.com/sunbin/stories/lv-crime/2001/jul/18/512096646.html
>
>
>  Allan
>
>



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 08:54:51 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: question for Mr Feist
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On Wednesday, July 18, 2001, at 10:10 PM, Joshua Stanton wrote:

> "gell"?
>

It's a variant of "Jell."  I tend to use it because of my theater 
background, wherein a "gel" is a colored transparency you put over a 
light to give it color.  Probably has only one "l" but what the heck.


> Miss-type or a bad dictionary? I couldn't find it.
> ~Joshua~
>
> PS How is it one story can go so smoothly and the
> other be such a pain?

Most of my books are a pain during chapter one.  Takes a while for me to 
get going.  Then by chapter 3 I'm rolling along.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.

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*** EOOH ***
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Subject: RE: e-books
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Remember people, you have to cut an paste the whole string - without the
http info, it would look like this:
www.lasvegassun.com/sunbin/stories/lv-crime/2001/jul/18/512096646.html

Russell Teeter

-----Original Message-----
>From: Alan Mills [mailto:milla@css.com.au]
>Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2001 11:34 PM
>To: 'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'
>Subject: e-books
>
>
> Anyone got any comments on this : 
>http://www.lasvegassun.com/sunbin/stories/lv-crime/2001/jul/18/512096646
>.htm
>l
>
>
> Allan 

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Subject: Re: An intoduction.
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Falerin Ardendor" <falerin@ultraisp.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: An intoduction.
Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 12:08:02 -0400
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Well you could always do something completely different with Kelewan... I
mean presumably its subject to many of the same dark forces that plague
Midkemia... a novel about how they deal with such an attack could be
interesting... Maybe...

Heh

Fal
----- Original Message -----
From: "Raymond Feist" <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2001 11:49 AM
Subject: Re: An intoduction.


>
> On Wednesday, July 18, 2001, at 09:33 PM, Falerin wrote:
>
> >
>
> > Anyway my general question is:
> > Can we expect to see a kelewan focused or even partially kelewan set
> > novel
> > (like magician was) in the future? I know that its been said, in an old
> > FAQ,
> > that writing another book with Janny Wurts was unlikely, but does this
> > mean
> > Kelewan is a dead world literarily?
> >
> >
>
>
> Welcome.
>
> Kelewan will be shown in part during the 3rd Riftwar.  Janny and I may
> do another book together in the future, as part of the Legends of the
> RIftwar series.  But we won't do a full on Empire book because,
> basically, we can't think of a story we'd like to do there.  We've
> talked about it a couple of times and every time we start it it goes
> something like, "Why don't we do a story about Justin and the
> conservatives trying to go back to the old style of rulership?"  Then we
> look at each other and go, 'Naw."  We pretty much used up everything we
> had for that series.
>
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
>
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
> stupidity.
>
>



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Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 17:15:13 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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At 08:52 AM 7/19/01 -0700, Raymond Feist wrote:
> That link is dead, Allan.  What was the story about?

The Russian programmer at DEFCON in Las Vegas, who wrote code 
that defeats the security features of PDF based ebooks, making
them readable in any PDF viewer.

He was arrested by the FBI at the airport on his way home, for
violations of the CDMA (supplying code that defeats copyright
protection).

rip



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 09:37:22 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: e-books
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On Thursday, July 19, 2001, at 09:15 AM, Richard Williamson wrote:

> At 08:52 AM 7/19/01 -0700, Raymond Feist wrote:
>> That link is dead, Allan.  What was the story about?
>
> The Russian programmer at DEFCON in Las Vegas, who wrote code
> that defeats the security features of PDF based ebooks, making
> them readable in any PDF viewer.
>
> He was arrested by the FBI at the airport on his way home, for
> violations of the CDMA (supplying code that defeats copyright
> protection).
>
> rip
>
>
Oh, that thing.

Yes, it's being discussed on the SFWA (Science Fiction/Fantasy Writers 
of America) forum at SFnet.com.

I know very little about it.  It's being denounced as Draconian by Jerry 
Pournelle and others.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Subject: Re: Magician 20th Anniversary
Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 19:09:43 +0200
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*** EOOH ***
From: "LaughingFrog" <badeand.dk@mail.dk>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Magician 20th Anniversary
Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 19:09:43 +0200
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How about spevial editions of some of the other books.... now where gonna
have 3 version of the same book... the normal, Authors Preferred Edition,
and now 20th anniversary edition... :)


LaughingFrog

----- Original Message -----
From: "Raymond Feist" <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2001 5:52 PM
Subject: Re: Magician 20th Anniversary


>
> On Wednesday, July 18, 2001, at 08:20 PM, Sean Gilliam wrote:
>
> > A while back there was some talk of a 20th anniversary edition of
> > Magician.
> > Is this still in the works?
> >
> >
> >
>
> Yes.  There will be a 20th Anniversary hardcover of the book in the UK.
> We're still looking to see who might want to do it in the US.
>
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
>
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
> stupidity.
>



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 11:30:36 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Magician 20th Anniversary
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On Thursday, July 19, 2001, at 10:09 AM, LaughingFrog wrote:

> How about spevial editions of some of the other books.... now where 
> gonna
> have 3 version of the same book... the normal, Authors Preferred 
> Edition,
> and now 20th anniversary edition... :)
>

No special editions of anything planned, though someday I may take a 
crack at rewriting Prince of the Blood.

Never liked that ending.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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From: "Michael Gibson" <gibfish@gibbyco.freeserve.co.uk>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: (OT) Words (was Re: Guy)
Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 20:53:14 +0100
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From: "Michael Gibson" <gibfish@gibbyco.freeserve.co.uk>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: (OT) Words (was Re: Guy)
Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 20:53:14 +0100
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> At 03:45 PM 7/13/01 -0500, James Young wrote:
> >    That is probably because people in the UK still have a grasp on
> >the English Language. American pop culture (which is the guilty
> >party for a lot of mispronunciations) coupled with poor initial
> >education in English grammar generally doesn't do too much for the
> >language as a whole.
>
> Actually, (are you sitting down) the UK school system at
> this time does not feel that "English Grammar" as a subject
> is something that needs to be taught, ie kids pick up on
> it from their parents/friends/etc, so there is no need
> to "waste" precious in-school time teaching it.

I agree - having just been through the system, I see it is somewhat (and in my
experience, almost totally) lacking.  That then makes learning foreign
languages_much_harder, in my opinion.

> I will trade the US's 'poor initial' for the UK's 'total
> and complete lack of'.  In any case, my kids'll be going
> to school in Germany, probably.
>
> The Shorter OED a) is affordable, and b) will include 99.99%
> of the words you will need in your day-to-day life.  In the
> case of .your. active vocabulary, James, probably only 80% ;->

I went into our library the other day and saw the Shorter OED, and thought,
"that's not very short".  I'd certainly like it.  Then I saw the full OED next
it...  I must congratulate the OED - it's the first dictionary I've found,
listing "vorpal".

Mike,
Gibfish of the West.
                                          Check out my forums at:
"If a problem appears simple, then it     http://www.tonrae.co.uk/forums/
probably hasn't been thought through."



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From: "Sean Gilliam" <sgilliam@neb.rr.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Magician
Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 15:24:17 -0500
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Sean Gilliam" <sgilliam@neb.rr.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Magician
Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 15:24:17 -0500
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I was wondering if there are any major differences in UK and US editions. I
would really like to get a couple hard cover editions of Magician. I seem to
keep wearing out my paper backs!


Sean Gilliam
I don't suffer from insanity. I enjoy every minute of it!



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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: Darren McClung <d@dwmc.org>
Subject: Re: e-books
Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 20:49:17 GMT
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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: Darren McClung <d@dwmc.org>
Subject: Re: e-books
Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 20:49:17 GMT
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> He was arrested by the FBI at the airport on his way home, for
> violations of the CDMA (supplying code that defeats copyright
> protection).
>
> rip
>

I beleive you mean DMCA rip.  (Digital Millennium Copyright Act)
CDMA is a wireless phone protocol.  :)

Darren



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Subject: Re: Magician 20th Anniversary
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 16:18:51 -0500
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Ryan Dragon" <rdragon@westerncom.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Magician 20th Anniversary
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 16:18:51 -0500
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Is there going to be anything different, or another reprint?

ryan
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Raymond Feist" <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2001 10:52 AM
Subject: Re: Magician 20th Anniversary


> 
> On Wednesday, July 18, 2001, at 08:20 PM, Sean Gilliam wrote:
> 
> > A while back there was some talk of a 20th anniversary edition of 
> > Magician.
> > Is this still in the works?
> >
> >
> >
> 
> Yes.  There will be a 20th Anniversary hardcover of the book in the UK.  
> We're still looking to see who might want to do it in the US.
> 
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
> 
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
> stupidity.
> 



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References: 
 <200107181840.f6IIef924798@smtp1.san.rr.com><004e01c1100b$eac5c9c0$20dcfea
 9@ultraisp.com> <p04310101b77c192a0bb4@[192.168.0.2]>
 <001901c1106a$6f93a790$cc0ea197@lhup.edu>
Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 07:55:22 +1000
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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: Anestis Kozakis <kenosti@labyrinth.net.au>
Subject: Re: An intoduction.
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 07:55:22 +1000
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: Anestis Kozakis <kenosti@labyrinth.net.au>
Subject: Re: An intoduction.
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

>  > William Wrote :
>>
>>  >Anyway my general question is:
>>  >Can we expect to see a kelewan focused or even partially kelewan set
>novel
>>  >(like magician was) in the future? I know that its been said, in an old
>FAQ,
>>  >that writing another book with Janny Wurts was unlikely, but does this
>mean
>>  >Kelewan is a dead world literarily?

Then Anestis worte :

>  >
>>  Ray has never said that writing another book with Janny was unlikely.
>>
>>  He said that writing another Kelewan book (with or without Janny) was
>>  not going to happen.
>>
>>  If Janny has time to work with Ray on another
>>  collaboration/co-authored novel, then we may see another Ray/Janny
>  > novel.
>>
>  > All we need to know about Kelewan we saw in the "Empire" trilogy, and
>  > anything else we see will be snippets from the Midkemia point of view.

And then William wrote :

>
>Well I was going from the Raymond E. Feist FAQ (An amiditedly out of date
>document) that says:
>
>D.1. Q: Will Ray and Janny do any more books?
>
>D.1. A: Probably not. Ray said that while the process was fun it was very
>tough for both authors.

That's form the old version of the FAQ.

>It does not mention anything about Kelewan not being written about anymore.
>And the information you provided says just the opposite... So I am very
>confused....

Don't be.  Ray has expanded on this topic over the years, and what I 
have paraphrased has been from Ray has written either here on the 
mailing list or on the newsgroup in response to the questions about 
working with Janny or another Kelewan book, and also (IIRC) appears 
in the latest version of the FAQ (wherever that's ghosted these days 
- http;//www.crydee.com I believe).

>Falerin

Anestis.
-- 
kenosti@labyrinth.net.au
"A complete list of this film's associate producers
  is available upon request."
    -- In End Credits for "State and Main"



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Subject: Re: Magician
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Jason Martin" <res0b95g@verizon.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Magician
Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 15:17:26 -0700
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I picked up the UK paperback edition of Magician on Ebay a year or so ago. I
think I got it for $4.99 or so.  What is nice is its all one edition vs two
=)  I would check with Ebay first and see what is there and some of you
local book stores too.  I was able to get a couple of Dune paperback
UKeditions  at a bookstore for about a dollar each.

Jason

"Mas Tequila!"
       Red Vodoo- Sammy Hagar
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sean Gilliam" <sgilliam@neb.rr.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2001 1:24 PM
Subject: Magician


> I was wondering if there are any major differences in UK and US editions. I
> would really like to get a couple hard cover editions of Magician. I seem to
> keep wearing out my paper backs!
>
>
> Sean Gilliam
> I don't suffer from insanity. I enjoy every minute of it!
>



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 16:34:32 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Magician 20th Anniversary
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Monday, July 19, 1999, at 02:18 PM, Ryan Dragon wrote:

> Is there going to be anything different, or another reprint?
>
> ryan
>

I may write another foreword, but no more changes in the text.

Best, R.E.F.

----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.

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From: "Maria Parsonage" <mpday@strayduck.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
References: <200107191553.f6JFr0913847@smtp1.san.rr.com>
Subject: Book tour
Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 01:43:28 +0100
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Maria Parsonage" <mpday@strayduck.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Book tour
Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 01:43:28 +0100
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Well the amount of mail I got today has made up for the last few days of
silence. Did everyone come back from holiday or something?

Ray, will you be doing a promo tour when the 20th anniversary edition comes
out?

Maria



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Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 01:47:38 +0100
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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: Andrea J Chee <andrea@bloodaxe.com>
Subject: Re: (OT) Words (was Re: Guy)
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20010716092358.0268d030@mail.swindon.wrsec.fr>
 <NGELLDNAEMBGGGHFAJPBGEDMCHAA.gibfish@gibbyco.freeserve.co.uk>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 01:47:38 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: Andrea J Chee <andrea@bloodaxe.com>
Subject: Re: (OT) Words (was Re: Guy)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

In article <NGELLDNAEMBGGGHFAJPBGEDMCHAA.gibfish@gibbyco.freeserve.co.uk
>, Michael Gibson <gibfish@gibbyco.freeserve.co.uk> writes
>
>I went into our library the other day and saw the Shorter OED, and thought,
>"that's not very short".  I'd certainly like it.  Then I saw the full OED next
>it...  I must congratulate the OED - it's the first dictionary I've found,
>listing "vorpal".

There is also a Compact Edition of the OED available, which is the full
version micrographically printed in one volume and supplied with a
magnifying glass for reading. It's not cheap, but a lot less than the
normal full version. I hear it's a little heavy going because of the
small print, but is an option for anyone who feels really driven to own
the whole thing.

- ANDREA

-- 
  Get PAID for the emails you already send and receive! 
http://www.mailround.com/  Referrer: andrea@bloodaxe.com
^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^
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<andrea@bloodaxe.com>                    http://www.bloodaxe.com/
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From: Allan Mills <milla@css.com.au>
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Subject: RE: (OT) Words (was Re: Guy)
Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 11:05:38 +1000
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*** EOOH ***
From: Allan Mills <milla@css.com.au>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: (OT) Words (was Re: Guy)
Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 11:05:38 +1000
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: Michael Gibson [mailto:gibfish@gibbyco.freeserve.co.uk]
> Sent: Friday, July 20, 2001 5:53 AM
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Subject: RE: (OT) Words (was Re: Guy)
> I went into our library the other day and saw the Shorter 
> OED, and thought,
> "that's not very short".  I'd certainly like it.  Then I saw 
> the full OED next
> it...  I must congratulate the OED - it's the first 
> dictionary I've found,
> listing "vorpal".
> 

 Funny thing about that, the other week at my work someone started up a game
of hangman. I took me almost no time to work out his word was hangman. For
my word I decided on Vorpal since it's fairly obscure. Not only did nobody
get it but nobody had even heard of the word. Sad.

 Allan

> Mike,
> Gibfish of the West.
>                                           Check out my forums at: http://www.tonrae.co.uk/forums/
> "If a problem appears simple, then it probably hasn't been thought through."





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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 18:55:53 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Book tour
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On Thursday, July 19, 2001, at 05:43 PM, Maria Parsonage wrote:

> Well the amount of mail I got today has made up for the last few days of
> silence. Did everyone come back from holiday or something?
>
> Ray, will you be doing a promo tour when the 20th anniversary edition 
> comes
> out?
>
> Maria
>
>


Most likely.  It's going to come out at the same time as Talon so I 
think Harper will be touring me overseas, and I expect Avon will in the 
US.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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From: "Chad Keffer" <feistfan@chadkeffer.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
References: <200107200156.f6K1um929849@smtp1.san.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Book tour
Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 21:12:50 -0500
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Chad Keffer" <feistfan@chadkeffer.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Book tour
Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 21:12:50 -0500
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Ray,

Well if that doesn't pan out, then we can all take up a collection
and buy you a bus ticket to some mutually agreeable location.

- Chad

----- Original Message -----
>From: "Raymond Feist" <raymond@bittersea.com>
>To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
>Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2001 8:55 PM
>Subject: Re: Book tour
>
>
>
>On Thursday, July 19, 2001, at 05:43 PM, Maria Parsonage wrote:
>
>> Well the amount of mail I got today has made up for the last few days of
>> silence. Did everyone come back from holiday or something?
>>
>> Ray, will you be doing a promo tour when the 20th anniversary edition
>> comes
>> out?
>>
>> Maria
>>
>>
>
>
>Most likely.  It's going to come out at the same time as Talon so I
>think Harper will be touring me overseas, and I expect Avon will in
>the
>US.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
>stupidity.
>


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From: "Falerin" <falerin@ultraisp.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
References:  <200107181840.f6IIef924798@smtp1.san.rr.com><004e01c1100b$eac5c9c0$20dcfea 9@ultraisp.com> <p04310101b77c192a0bb4@[192.168.0.2]> <001901c1106a$6f93a790$cc0ea197@lhup.edu> <p04310100b77d070d2e4d@[192.168.0.2]>
Subject: Re: An intoduction.
Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 22:05:51 -0400
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Falerin" <falerin@ultraisp.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: An intoduction.
Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 22:05:51 -0400
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Well Thank you very much.. and Ray answered me pretty much the same way... I
love having the primary source to ask...

Fal
----- Original Message -----
From: "Anestis Kozakis" <kenosti@labyrinth.net.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2001 5:55 PM
Subject: Re: An intoduction.


> >  > William Wrote :
> >>
> >>  >Anyway my general question is:
> >>  >Can we expect to see a kelewan focused or even partially kelewan set
> >novel
> >>  >(like magician was) in the future? I know that its been said, in an old
> >FAQ,
> >>  >that writing another book with Janny Wurts was unlikely, but does this
> >mean
> >>  >Kelewan is a dead world literarily?
>
> Then Anestis worte :
>
> >  >
> >>  Ray has never said that writing another book with Janny was unlikely.
> >>
> >>  He said that writing another Kelewan book (with or without Janny) was
> >>  not going to happen.
> >>
> >>  If Janny has time to work with Ray on another
> >>  collaboration/co-authored novel, then we may see another Ray/Janny
> >  > novel.
> >>
> >  > All we need to know about Kelewan we saw in the "Empire" trilogy, and
> >  > anything else we see will be snippets from the Midkemia point of view.
>
> And then William wrote :
>
> >
> >Well I was going from the Raymond E. Feist FAQ (An amiditedly out of date
> >document) that says:
> >
> >D.1. Q: Will Ray and Janny do any more books?
> >
> >D.1. A: Probably not. Ray said that while the process was fun it was very
> >tough for both authors.
>
> That's form the old version of the FAQ.
>
> >It does not mention anything about Kelewan not being written about anymore.
> >And the information you provided says just the opposite... So I am very
> >confused....
>
> Don't be.  Ray has expanded on this topic over the years, and what I
> have paraphrased has been from Ray has written either here on the
> mailing list or on the newsgroup in response to the questions about
> working with Janny or another Kelewan book, and also (IIRC) appears
> in the latest version of the FAQ (wherever that's ghosted these days
> - http;//www.crydee.com I believe).
>
> >Falerin
>
> Anestis.
> --
> kenosti@labyrinth.net.au
> "A complete list of this film's associate producers
>   is available upon request."
>     -- In End Credits for "State and Main"
>
>



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From: "Philip A. Culver" <parlor@mediaone.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: e-books
Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 02:22:42 -0400
Message-ID: <NDBBIGCDMLNNFODOOFMIGECNDCAA.parlor@mediaone.net>
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Philip A. Culver" <parlor@mediaone.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: e-books
Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 02:22:42 -0400
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

The link worked for me.
http://www.lasvegassun.com/sunbin/stories/lv-crime/2001/jul/18/512096646.htm
l    Just make sure you get everything into your browser.  I had to compare
the link in the email to what I got when I clicked on it and add in the
extra l.

Phil

-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Raymond Feist
>Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2001 11:52 AM
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: Re: e-books
>
>
>
>On Wednesday, July 18, 2001, at 11:34 PM, Alan Mills wrote:
>
>>  Anyone got any comments on this :
>> http://www.lasvegassun.com/sunbin/stories/lv-
>> crime/2001/jul/18/512096646.htm
>> l
>>
>>
>>  Allan
>>
>>
>
>That link is dead, Allan.  What was the story about?
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
>stupidity.
>


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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: e-books
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 08:46:18 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: e-books
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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At 08:49 PM 7/19/01 +0000, Darren McClung wrote:
>> He was arrested by the FBI at the airport on his way home, for
>> violations of the CDMA (supplying code that defeats copyright
>> protection).
>>
>> rip
>>
>
>I beleive you mean DMCA rip.  (Digital Millennium Copyright Act)
>CDMA is a wireless phone protocol.  :)
>
>Darren

Yeah, that's the one.  My brain says, "Yes, that is -a- valid
acroynym" but doesn't get around to saying, "hopefully it is the one
I mean" until after I send the email. 

rip



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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: RE: (OT) Words (was Re: Guy)
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 08:52:50 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: RE: (OT) Words (was Re: Guy)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

At 11:05 AM 7/20/01 +1000, Allan Mills wrote:
> Funny thing about that, the other week at my work someone started up a game
>of hangman. I took me almost no time to work out his word was hangman. For
>my word I decided on Vorpal since it's fairly obscure. Not only did nobody
>get it but nobody had even heard of the word. Sad.

One question, did they give a definition that included
a reference OTHER than:

'Twas brillig, and the slithy toves
Did gyre and gimble in the wabe;
All mimsy were the borogoves,
And the mome raths outgrabe.
...
   He took his vorpal sword in hand:
   Long time the manxome foe he sought--

http://www76.pair.com/keithlim/jabberwocky/poem/jabberwocky.html

rip



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From: Michael Gibson <gibfish@gibbyco.freeserve.co.uk>
Subject: Re: (OT) Words (was Re: Guy)
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*** EOOH ***
From: Michael Gibson <gibfish@gibbyco.freeserve.co.uk>
Subject: Re: (OT) Words (was Re: Guy)
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 15:54:12 +0100 (GMT+01:00)
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> One question, did they give a definition that included
> a reference OTHER than:

<snip>

Yup - it said "... a word invented by Lewis Carroll, meaning..." I
forget exactly what, but it meant hungry I think.  IIRC, he derived
from something similar to voracious.

Mike



_______________________________________________________________________
FSmail - Get your free web-based email from Freeserve: www.fsmail.net





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Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 13:46:52 -0400 (EDT)
To: feistfans-l@cornell.edu
Subject: OT: Publishing
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Hi Ray,

It's been quite a while since I've participated on the list, but I had
two questions.

I was curious whether you think it would be more or less difficult to
be an unpublished author and get a sci-fi/fantasy book like "Magician"
published today than it was 2 decades ago?

It sounds like you've been busy writing, but have you had a chance to
see any of the summer movies and, if you have, did you think there
were any that were notable? (In particular, I'm wondering what you
thought of A.I., assuming you've seen it.)

Thanks,

-Matt


P.S. I sent this two days ago, but as far as I can tell it never
reached the list. If it did and this is the second copy, I apologize
for making all of you suffer.



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From: John <john@crydee.com>
Subject: Email, and OLD List messages
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 20:19:32 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: John <john@crydee.com>
Subject: Email, and OLD List messages
User-Agent: Turnpike/6.00-Beta-5-U (<x5sqXV$6+zj$GDJXMMY4QwhIW3>)
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If anyone needs to contact me it looks like I have fixed most of the 
damage during the crash. Though some recent emails may have been lost. 
If you have sent me updates for the Member listing or others in the last 
week, and it is not already on my site please assume the email was lost, 
and re-send

If there is anyone using Turnpike who would be able to export as text 
and zip all list messages since November 2000, I would be interested to 
receive them by email (machine online 24/7) Please email me first though 
I don't need 100 copies of the list :)

Now to try and sort out the rest of the problems
-- 
John

john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.

Raymond E Feist Ring
http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm



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Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 13:21:03 -0700
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 13:21:03 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: OT: Publishing
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On Friday, July 20, 2001, at 10:46 AM, Matt Garson wrote:

> Hi Ray,
>
> It's been quite a while since I've participated on the list, but I had
> two questions.

Hi, Matt.
>
> I was curious whether you think it would be more or less difficult to
> be an unpublished author and get a sci-fi/fantasy book like "Magician"
> published today than it was 2 decades ago?

Tougher.  Today it would be a paperback original and probably cut up 
into two or three volumes with no major push.


>
> It sounds like you've been busy writing, but have you had a chance to
> see any of the summer movies and, if you have, did you think there
> were any that were notable? (In particular, I'm wondering what you
> thought of A.I., assuming you've seen it.)
>

Just saw Jurassic Park 3 yesterday.  They took portions of the original 
novel to build this movie, and while the FX are nice, with some of the 
best CGI coupled with Stan Winston's models so far, it just didn't 
measure up storywise to the first two.

Loved Final Fantasy. Brilliantly done, both as story and as animation.

That's about all so far.  My kids are with me all next week, so I expect 
I'll take them to see Cats and Dogs.

Best,R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.

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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 13:33:19 -0700 (PDT)
From: Ben Metzler <benjamintm@yahoo.com>
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: OT: Writers Insurance
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Mr. Feist,
I wanted to see if you would be able to answer a question that's been bugging me for
some time.  Is there a "Writer's Insurance" plan?  In otherwords, my company
supplies me with healther insurance, is there an equivalant that a writers publisher
would furnish?

Thanks,
Ben

=====
Teamwork: A lot of people doing what I say!

__________________________________________________
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From: "David Christensen" <damc84@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Moredhel Clerics?
Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 00:40:58 
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I would suppose the idea to be preposterous, as moredhel do not worship any 
deities (or do they?). But where would they go to for magical healing, 
perhaps they have their own kind of Spellweavers? Those did a good job of 
patching up Pug, as I recall, when his fireball aimed at the serpentqueen's 
ship backfired on him.

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp



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Subject: Re: Moredhel Clerics?
From: Falerin Ardendor <falerin@ultraisp.com>
To: feistfans-l@cornell.edu
Date: 21 Jul 2001 04:03:05 +0500
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 On Friday 20 July 2001 20:40, you wrote:
 > I would suppose the idea to be preposterous, as moredhel do not worship any
 > deities (or do they?). But where would they go to for magical healing,
 > perhaps they have their own kind of Spellweavers? Those did a good job of
 > patching up Pug, as I recall, when his fireball aimed at the serpentqueen's
 > ship backfired on him.
 
Having just read Krondor: The Betrayal the impression I got is that
this is pretty accurate...they do not have spellweavers per se.
according to Gorath but they do have magicians and given their tribal
culture probably they are fairly shamantic and that tends to cover
healing. Thats the impression I have of them anyway... but I am sure
Ray has a better answer...
 
 Fal



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 20:10:39 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On Friday, July 20, 2001, at 01:33 PM, Ben Metzler wrote:

> Mr. Feist,
> I wanted to see if you would be able to answer a question that's been 
> bugging me for
> some time.  Is there a "Writer's Insurance" plan?  In otherwords, my 
> company
> supplies me with healther insurance, is there an equivalant that a 
> writers publisher
> would furnish?
>
>

No.  Writers are self-employed, so any insurance I have I have purchased 
myself.

Most writers have significant others, many of whom work and the writer 
is covered under his/her wife/husband's insurance plan.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Subject: Wiñet
Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 10:36:03 +0100
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Aaron Howey" <ahowey@netcomuk.co.uk>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Wiñet
Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 10:36:03 +0100
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I was just re-reading Magician and noticed that there was another continent
in Midkemia, Wiñet. I was wondering if this contitnent was ever going to
appear in any forthcoming novels?



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From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Moredhel Clerics?
In-Reply-To: <F146Z9aZ1i6bdVJWrGW000027a3@hotmail.com>
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Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2001 14:47:28 +1000 (GMT+1000)
From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Moredhel Clerics?
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> I would suppose the idea to be preposterous, as moredhel do not worship any
> deities (or do they?). But where would they go to for magical healing,
> perhaps they have their own kind of Spellweavers? Those did a good job of
> patching up Pug, as I recall, when his fireball aimed at the serpentqueen's
> ship backfired on him.


Hope I'm reading your emal right, but wasn't it Pantathians that set up
the whole "magic backfiring" thing that injured Pug?

From what I can glean, moredhel have spellweavers, however not in the
number n the numbers that the Eledhel, since moredhel are more a "warrior"
society.

Thanks
Darragh
-=-=
www.iamtheporkfireman.com
[Email]: s356179@student.uq.edu.au [ICQ]: 114283262



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From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Moredhel Clerics?
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Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2001 14:48:24 +1000 (GMT+1000)
From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Moredhel Clerics?
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> I would suppose the idea to be preposterous, as moredhel do not worship any
> deities (or do they?). But where would they go to for magical healing,
> perhaps they have their own kind of Spellweavers? Those did a good job of
> patching up Pug, as I recall, when his fireball aimed at the serpentqueen's
> ship backfired on him.

Sorry, secondly.

The moredhel seem to worship the valheru, or more specific, worship the
places of valheru power (such as Moraelin).


Thanks
Darragh
-=-=
www.iamtheporkfireman.com
[Email]: s356179@student.uq.edu.au [ICQ]: 114283262



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Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 23:09:10 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Moredhel Clerics?
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On Saturday, July 21, 2001, at 09:47 PM, Darragh Murray wrote:

>
>> I would suppose the idea to be preposterous, as moredhel do not 
>> worship any
>> deities (or do they?). But where would they go to for magical healing,
>> perhaps they have their own kind of Spellweavers? Those did a good job 
>> of
>> patching up Pug, as I recall, when his fireball aimed at the 
>> serpentqueen's
>> ship backfired on him.
>
>
> Hope I'm reading your emal right, but wasn't it Pantathians that set up
> the whole "magic backfiring" thing that injured Pug?
>
> From what I can glean, moredhel have spellweavers, however not in the
> number n the numbers that the Eledhel, since moredhel are more a 
> "warrior"
> society.
>
> ----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 23:09:52 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Moredhel Clerics?
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On Saturday, July 21, 2001, at 09:47 PM, Darragh Murray wrote:

>
>> I would suppose the idea to be preposterous, as moredhel do not 
>> worship any
>> deities (or do they?). But where would they go to for magical healing,
>> perhaps they have their own kind of Spellweavers? Those did a good job 
>> of
>> patching up Pug, as I recall, when his fireball aimed at the 
>> serpentqueen's
>> ship backfired on him.
>
>
> Hope I'm reading your emal right, but wasn't it Pantathians that set up
> the whole "magic backfiring" thing that injured Pug?
>
> From what I can glean, moredhel have spellweavers, however not in the
> number n the numbers that the Eledhel, since moredhel are more a 
> "warrior"
> society.
>

Sorry about the partial I just sent.

Moredhel don't have Spellweavers.  They do have magic users, however.  
More akin to human Lesser Path magicians than anything else.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 23:10:26 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
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On Saturday, July 21, 2001, at 09:48 PM, Darragh Murray wrote:

>> I would suppose the idea to be preposterous, as moredhel do not 
>> worship any
>> deities (or do they?). But where would they go to for magical healing,
>> perhaps they have their own kind of Spellweavers? Those did a good job 
>> of
>> patching up Pug, as I recall, when his fireball aimed at the 
>> serpentqueen's
>> ship backfired on him.
>
> Sorry, secondly.
>
> The moredhel seem to worship the valheru, or more specific, worship the
> places of valheru power (such as Moraelin).
>
>

They don't worship the valheru.  They have a nature worship akin to 
elves and a veneration for ancestors.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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How would the moredhel's view on the gods be, though? I would reckon they'd 
be pretty much pissed off that they overthrew the Valheru during the Chaos 
Wars, or maybe even glad that they did because it freed them from 
enslavement? The latter still opens a way for moredhel to have clerics among 
them, in a way.

I knew that the dark elves had lesser path magicians among them, but do they 
heal? And what are spellweavers, greater path magicians or what?

>From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: Re: Moredhel Clerics?
>Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 23:10:26 -0700
>
>
>On Saturday, July 21, 2001, at 09:48 PM, Darragh Murray wrote:
>
>>>I would suppose the idea to be preposterous, as moredhel do not
>>>worship any
>>>deities (or do they?). But where would they go to for magical healing,
>>>perhaps they have their own kind of Spellweavers? Those did a good job
>>>of
>>>patching up Pug, as I recall, when his fireball aimed at the
>>>serpentqueen's
>>>ship backfired on him.
>>
>>Sorry, secondly.
>>
>>The moredhel seem to worship the valheru, or more specific, worship the
>>places of valheru power (such as Moraelin).
>>
>>
>
>They don't worship the valheru.  They have a nature worship akin to
>elves and a veneration for ancestors.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
>stupidity.
>


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp



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Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2001 07:27:16 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
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On Sunday, July 22, 2001, at 11:33 AM, David Christensen wrote:

>
> How would the moredhel's view on the gods be, though? I would reckon 
> they'd be pretty much pissed off that they overthrew the Valheru during 
> the Chaos Wars, or maybe even glad that they did because it freed them 
> from enslavement? The latter still opens a way for moredhel to have 
> clerics among them, in a way.


Actually, they have no issues with the Chaos Wars.  Any more that you 
and I gives a hoot the Norman's overthrew the Saxsons a thousand years 
ago.

They consider the gods forces of nature and don't "get" worship.  They 
think of nature as being larger than the gods.  So, indirectly, it might 
be said they worship the Controller Gods.  But they have no temples, and 
they have no clerics.

>
> I knew that the dark elves had lesser path magicians among them, but do 
> they heal? And what are spellweavers, greater path magicians or what?
>
>>


They have "healers" but their more in the real of the kind of healing a 
lesser path can do with herbs and natural magic.  No "laying on hands 
and 'zap' your wounds are healed," stuff.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.

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From: Allan Mills <milla@css.com.au>
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Subject: RE: (OT) Words (was Re: Guy)
Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 08:49:02 +1000
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From: Allan Mills <milla@css.com.au>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: (OT) Words (was Re: Guy)
Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 08:49:02 +1000
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 The only other places I've seen the term Vorpal used is in AD&D and
Nethack. In both versions a Vorpal blade has a chance of beheading any
monster it hits = instant death, provided of course the monster has a head
and will die if it is chopped off. In Nethack it will also instantly kill
any Jabberwockys that you attack with it.

 Allan

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Michael Gibson [mailto:gibfish@gibbyco.freeserve.co.uk]
> Sent: Saturday, July 21, 2001 12:54 AM
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Subject: Re: (OT) Words (was Re: Guy)
> 
> 
> > One question, did they give a definition that included
> > a reference OTHER than:
> 
> <snip>
> 
> Yup - it said "... a word invented by Lewis Carroll, 
> meaning..." I forget exactly what, but it meant hungry I 
> think.  IIRC, he derived from something similar to voracious.
> 
> Mike
> 
> 
> 
> ______________________________________________________________
> _________
> FSmail - Get your free web-based email from Freeserve: www.fsmail.net
> 
> 
> 
> 



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Subject: Re: (OT) Words (was Re: Guy)
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To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
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Both of those references taken DIRECTLY from the poem.

> The only other places I've seen the term Vorpal used is in AD&D and
> Nethack. In both versions a Vorpal blade has a chance of beheading any
> monster it hits = instant death, provided of course the monster has a head
> and will die if it is chopped off. In Nethack it will also instantly kill
> any Jabberwockys that you attack with it.
>
>  Allan
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Michael Gibson [mailto:gibfish@gibbyco.freeserve.co.uk]
> > Sent: Saturday, July 21, 2001 12:54 AM
> > To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > Subject: Re: (OT) Words (was Re: Guy)
> >
> >
> > > One question, did they give a definition that included
> > > a reference OTHER than:
> >
> > <snip>
> >
> > Yup - it said "... a word invented by Lewis Carroll,
> > meaning..." I forget exactly what, but it meant hungry I
> > think.  IIRC, he derived from something similar to voracious.
> >
> > Mike
> >
> >
> >
> > ______________________________________________________________
> > _________
> > FSmail - Get your free web-based email from Freeserve: www.fsmail.net
> >
> >
> >
> >
>



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Normally I just lurk on the list, but the virus doesn't care. My computer 
somehow caught the W32.Sircam.Worm@mm virus. My computer is now virus and 
program free. If any of you get an email from a.grif@home.com *or* an email 
that begins with "Hi! How are you?" or some similiar thing, then mentions an 
attachment, junk it.

For a somewhat ontopic subject: Why is Nakor so darn cool?

K. Griffith

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp



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From: K. Griffith <delenn_of_mir@hotmail.com>
> For a somewhat ontopic subject: Why is Nakor so darn cool?
> 
> K. Griffith
Because he has never used, let alone heard of, a computer



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K. Griffith wrote:
>Normally I just lurk on the list, but the virus doesn't care. My computer 
>somehow caught the W32.Sircam.Worm@mm virus. My computer is now virus and 
>program free. If any of you get an email from a.grif@home.com *or* an email 
>that begins with "Hi! How are you?" or some similiar thing, then mentions an 
>attachment, junk it.
>

I just received that kind of message, from a home.com adress. I wrote
to abuse@home.com with the full details of the sender. I hope they
will remove him, the ISP can be very pissed by that kind of behavior.

There was an attached message, with extension .doc.com. Never open
these, folks :-)

Paddyjack


Get 250 color business cards for FREE!
http://businesscards.lycos.com/vp/fastpath/



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Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 15:00:43 +0100
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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: Andrea J Chee <andrea@bloodaxe.com>
Subject: Re: Virus Alert
References: <BOEEHNDBPPFHDAAA@mailcity.com>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 15:00:43 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: Andrea J Chee <andrea@bloodaxe.com>
Subject: Re: Virus Alert
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

In article <BOEEHNDBPPFHDAAA@mailcity.com>, Paddyjack [ ]
<erykel@lycos.com> writes
>
>I just received that kind of message, from a home.com adress. I wrote to 
>abuse@home.com with the full details of the sender. I hope they will remove him, 
>the ISP can be very pissed by that kind of behavior.

They'll simply advise the user that he's infected. He won't know and
didn't send it on purpose.

W32.Sircam.Worm@mm is going around - I've seen 17 copies through here in
the last 48 hours.

For those who need info on the worm and how to remove it, see:

http://www.symantec.com/avcenter/venc/data/w32.sircam.worm@mm.html

- ANDREA

-- 
  Get PAID for the emails you already send and receive! 
http://www.mailround.com/  Referrer: andrea@bloodaxe.com
^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^
                  ANDROMEDA - Internet Goddess
<andrea@bloodaxe.com>                    http://www.bloodaxe.com/
Bloodaxe's History Links:   http://www.geocities.com/Athens/5055/
The Loony Bin Archive:               http://loonies.net800.co.uk/



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 21:17:12 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: John <john@crydee.com>
Subject: Crydee.com update
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Well now my computer is sort of working OK, I have made a few changes.

As the Miscellaneous Artefacts section has grown with Original Art. I 
have now created a sub menu of Miscellaneous Artefacts specifically for 
Original Art
A direct link can be found at

http://www.crydee.com/feist/misc/oart/oartindex.htm

The new items I have uploaded are the last two buttons on the list. 
Magician Apprentice and Rage of a Demon King
These are the Hungarian covers

Ray, I would be interested in your comments on the Magician Apprentice 
cover, and does the scene resemble what you thought it looked like

enjoy
-- 
John

john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.

Raymond E Feist Ring
http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm



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Subject: Crydee.com Update. re BAK
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I Just got a message from Neal Halford, who i guess most of you will 
recognise from Betrayal at Krondor fame.

I have posted it in the News section of my site, for all to read It 
relates to a book on game design entitled

Swords & Circuitry: A Designer's Guide to Computer Role-Playing Games
-- 
John

john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.

Raymond E Feist Ring
http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm



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Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 09:23:11 +1000
Subject: Nakor
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*** EOOH ***
From: Brad_A_Krahe@allegiance.com.au
X-Lotus-FromDomain: HCS
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 09:23:11 +1000
Subject: Nakor
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>For a somewhat ontopic subject: Why is Nakor so darn cool?
>
>K. Griffith
>


Like yourself, I normally lurk in dark places without a comment on anything
that hits my inbox from the list. Watch what you say about Nakor, I had a
very bad experience about a year or two ago (can't remember exactly, but it
was before the Melbourne - Australia book signing) on this list when I
asked the question whether Ray had ever 'considered' doing a book about
Nakor (I never asked could he). I have only recently joined the list again
:)

Considering for a supporting character through the books we find out
interesting information about Nakor (I wont say alot of information,
because being as old as he is 'could' probably fill a book in itself,
though I find not knowing everything far more interesting - imagination is
a great thing!). Knowing what we know about him I also find his character
'darn cool'. From Shadow of a Dark Queen I fell in love with the Nakor
character (reminded me of a friends gnome illusionist / thief somewhat,
from my old AD&D days).

I would be very interested if anyone has a sort of 'BIO' on Nakor, pieces
of information gathered from all the books he appears in ? If not, if
there's enough interest on the list I could go back through the books and
see what I could dig up ??


P.S. Hello to everyone on the list, this time round I'll try not to get
everyone's blood boiling :)


Regards,

Brad Krahe
SAP Business & Support Consultant
Allegiance Systems
www.allegiance.com.au



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*** EOOH ***
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Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 01:21:23 -0400
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checking to see if i got bounced

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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 06:47:09 -0700 (PDT)
From: Joshua Stanton <jasharkalain@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: 
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Slow day.  I was about to check myself.
~Joshua~
--- "@Home Mail" <joyparkis@home.com> wrote:
> checking to see if i got bounced
> 


__________________________________________________
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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: [OT] Elfwood
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010626231727.0200ae90@mail>
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Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 15:09:18 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: [OT] Elfwood
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For those who asked, Elfwood has come back up.  The join/upload
features are currently still offline, so you budding authors/artists
can't post your stories or art.  

The people who run it are still working in more security
arrangements, and then will bring those bits back online
when ready.

http://elfwood.lysator.liu.se/elfwood.html

I would plug my uploads, but that's cheesy and shameless.  
Besides, they have a search engine ;-> (It Says Here.  I note 
in passing that it is currently offline.  hm). 

rip



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From: "William Marnoch" <william@wmarnoch.freeserve.co.uk>
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Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 15:27:27 +0100
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Subject: Murder in Lamut
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From: "William Marnoch" <william@wmarnoch.freeserve.co.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 15:27:27 +0100
Subject: Murder in Lamut
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Hi,
As some of you may have already noticed, Amazon.co.uk are no 
offering the second Riftwar Legends book, "Murder In Lamut" for 
pre-order. 
According to them it will be released on 5th May 2002 and they 
have decided that it will be 400 pages long, the same length as 
they originally claimed Honoured Enemy was going to be which 
makes me doubt their accuracy ;).
Ray, how accurate is this information, are Amazon just arbitrarily 
making things up again?  


-- 
William Marnoch
william@wmarnoch.freeserve.co.uk
ICQ:77848483



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From: "A Irving" <aignome@dingoblue.net.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: library+books
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 00:57:23 +1000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "A Irving" <aignome@dingoblue.net.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: library+books
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 00:57:23 +1000
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Ray, What is your view on libraries that stock your book. I mean, you write
to make money, yet libraries let people borrow it for, relatively, free. Are
you just glad that people that would not normally buy/be able to afford your
books can still read them?
I only ask this as I was looking at my local library and honoured Enemy, On
order, already had 52 holds (This is for all the city council libraries in
Brisbane, Australia). Would you make the same profit from a book sold to a
library as you would from a book sold to a retailer?
CIAO,
          Aaron

http://www.hallofworlds.net/kerr/main.php
http://www.nightshadow.co.uk



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I HATE IT WHEN COMPUTER GAMES ARE MADE ABOUT BOOKS, ESPECIALLY FANTASY
ONES. it ruins the book. the reason you read is because it catches you
up in the story, you can think about certain things, how certain
people look etc. with computer games that is all generated and i think
it ruins the magic of books.

caleb 'krazze' fox



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Subject: Re: movie licenses
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Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 11:59:05 +1000
From: "Jason Mulligan" <sulimo@bigpond.net.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: movie licenses
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On 26/07/2001 at 10:28 AM Allan Mills wrote:

>Something thats been announced today is the making of some more computer
>games based upon Lord of the Rings. However these are being licensed from
>the makers of the movie rather than Tolkiens estate.

In this case, it stems from the fact that Saul Zantez bought the
rights from Tolkien (I think Saul may have purchased them before
J.R.R. passed away, I'm not sure on that) wholly years ago when making
the Bakshi animated film. The company that holds those right, Tolkien
Enterprises, has since licensed various things (computer games,
miniatures, the MERP RPG (as well as the new RPG being made by
Decipher), as well as others).

Of course I'm unsure what deal Tolkien Enterprises has made with New Line.

Regards,
	Jason Mullligan
	(resident Tolkien fan)i



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 18:05:08 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: movie licenses
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On Wednesday, July 25, 2001, at 05:28 PM, Allan Mills wrote:

>  Something thats been announced today is the making of some more 
> computer
> games based upon Lord of the Rings. However these are being licensed 
> from
> the makers of the movie rather than Tolkiens estate.
>
>  This is similar to Westwoods Dune games which are licensed from the 
> movie
> rather than the books.
>
>  What I was wondering is does a movie company automatically get the 
> rights
> to have spin off products based upon their movies when the buy the 
> rights to
> make a movie from a book or does the company need to have a clause in 
> the
> contract that allows them to do so ?
>
>  Allan
>
>


Nothing is "automatic." Every right granted is negotiated.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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From: Allan Mills <milla@css.com.au>
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Subject: movie licenses
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 10:28:29 +1000
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*** EOOH ***
From: Allan Mills <milla@css.com.au>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: movie licenses
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 10:28:29 +1000
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 Something thats been announced today is the making of some more computer
games based upon Lord of the Rings. However these are being licensed from
the makers of the movie rather than Tolkiens estate.

 This is similar to Westwoods Dune games which are licensed from the movie
rather than the books.

 What I was wondering is does a movie company automatically get the rights
to have spin off products based upon their movies when the buy the rights to
make a movie from a book or does the company need to have a clause in the
contract that allows them to do so ?

 Allan



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Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 19:08:23 -0400 (EDT)
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 19:08:23 -0400 (EDT)
From: STEPHEN M RUSSELL <smrussel@email.unc.edu>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Terry,

Welcome to the list.  Which college do you attend?  Since you're a Feist
fan, and therefore obviously have at least _some_ sense, you certainly
don't go to Dook or State.  Hopefully :)


Steve Russell (smrussel@email.unc.edu)
Publisher, Carolina Review


> Hello.  I've been lurking on the list for a week or so and I thought I
> would introduce myself.  My name is terry Corbett and I'm a college
> student from North Carolina...



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Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 09:46:51 +1000
From: "Jason Mulligan" <sulimo@bigpond.net.au>
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On 25/07/2001 at 11:21 AM Darren McClung wrote:

>It will be interesting though how publishers deal with libraries as
>technology evolves.  I read an article just recently that several large
>publishing companies want to put strict restrictions on the way e-books can
>be borrowed.

Frankly, I have zero interest in ebooks (at least for fiction,
reference material is another matter) and hope I can always get 'real'
books. Although technology evolves to the point where I computer can
read text which you can distinguish from a human, that would be
something that would interest me.


 



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 13:21:36 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: library+books
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On Wednesday, July 25, 2001, at 09:21 AM, Darren McClung wrote:

> Libraries are an interesting subject.  With all the lawsuits being 
> thrown
> around involving intellectual property, the DMCA, and the sort, 
> Libraries
> have come through virtually unscathed.  Yet, what a library does is not 
> much
> different than what companies like MP3.com were doing.

Huge difference.

MP3/Napster was making copies without paying for them.  Note the word 
"copies."

If someone had made ONE copy of a song, for example, and paid for it, 
then lent it to a friend while deleting the copy on their computer, and 
then that friend lent it out, deleting it, etc.  In other words, if ONE 
paid-for copy had made the rounds, no one would have cared any more than 
if you loan your CD to a buddy.

This lack of ability to discern the difference is the heart of why so 
many people don't get "intellectual property" and why writers, 
musicians, and artist have so much trouble getting the general public to 
understand the problem.


Best, R.E.F.

----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 14:19:24 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: library+books
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On Wednesday, July 25, 2001, at 01:46 PM, Michael Renn wrote:

> Hello, everyone, I'm new to the list, so I hope I'm not doing anything 
> taboo (please tell me if I am!)  Mr.. Feist, I have a question for you 
> and I hope you haven't already answered this one, but here goes:  I 
> first was introduced to your work by way of my intense love of the 
> computer game Betrayal at Krondor.  I really liked the character of 
> Gorath but it is quite obvious he will never appear in another of your 
> works.  However, in close second was Owyn, who apart from having a 
> really neat personality, becomes rather powerful (after rescuing Pug) 
> and I was wondering why it was that you chose not to include him in the 
> Serpentwar Saga and will he ever appear again?  Just wondering, thanks.
>

I just had no particular interest in the character.  Gorath was the only 
character I inherited from the game that I choose to develop, and as you 
said, he's not going to be coming back.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
From: "Earl Borah" <earl@ncn.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 12:21:34 -0700
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> Libraries are an interesting subject.  With all the lawsuits being
> thrown around involving intellectual property, the DMCA, and the sort,
> Libraries have come through virtually unscathed.  Yet, what a library
> does is not much different than what companies like MP3.com were

Actually, it is completely and entirely different. With borrowing a 
library book, while you check that book out, nobody else can read it. 
When you check the book back in, you cannot continue reading it -- 
it's gone, and all you have left are memories.

With MP3's, every person who "shares" it gets a complete copy, and 
every single person can listen to it as many times as they please. 
When you "check out" an MP3, the original is still there to be 
"checked out" by anyone else, and you can continue listening to it 
forever without ever needing to "check it in" again. That's the 
difference (which is also what makes it a copyright violation -- you 
need to have permission before you have the RIGHT to COPY something 
that is copyrighted).

You don't need permission to share (or even sell) an existing copy, 
as a library (or used bookstore) does -- because then YOUR copy 
disappears when you loan/give/sell it, and you're not creating a new 
copy.


It's going to take a few years (and some more overreactions on both 
sides) to really settle down on a fair balance between making sure 
people like Ray (not to mention songwriters and performers) can still 
make a living, and making sure there aren't unreasonable hurdles 
associated with the electronic version of their works that scare off 
consumers.


> 2) lines:  As wasjust mentioned, there are 52 in line for a copy of
> Honoured Enemy.  These people will probably be waiting for a while.
> 
> Combine these two factors and you have some serious wait time for a
> new release.  Fans will simply buy the book.  Anyone who is wiling to
> sit through the line isn't likely willing to spend 25$USD on the
> hardcover anyway.

There are exceptions to every rule, and I guess I'm good at being an 
exception. Harry Turtledove just released a new book, a continuation 
of a series. My wife LOVES his books in general, and this series in 
particular. She had to check it out from the library to read it 
though, because it will be at least another week or two before we can 
afford to buy it. Even though she's read it, we WILL be buying it, as 
soon as we can afford it. I guess that makes us hardcore junkies who 
are too poor to satisfy their habits.


-----
  "I dislike being wrong, and having to admit it publicly later. It's
  embarrassing, humiliating, and unnecessary. It would have been just
  as easy, and much more pleasant, to have been right in the first place."
    - Jack Richard, former Editor of Boardwatch Magazine



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From: "Michael Renn" <troubador7@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: library+books
Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 13:46:27 -0700
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Hello, everyone, I'm new to the list, so I hope I'm not doing anything
taboo (please tell me if I am!)  Mr.. Feist, I have a question for you
and I hope you haven't already answered this one, but here goes: I
first was introduced to your work by way of my intense love of the
computer game Betrayal at Krondor.  I really liked the character of
Gorath but it is quite obvious he will never appear in another of your
works.  However, in close second was Owyn, who apart from having a
really neat personality, becomes rather powerful (after rescuing Pug)
and I was wondering why it was that you chose not to include him in
the Serpentwar Saga and will he ever appear again?  Just wondering,
thanks.

Michael Renn
"I have taken all knowledge to be my province." -Francis Bacon 

>From: Raymond Feist <RAYMOND@BITTERSEA.COM>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu 
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu 
>Subject: Re: library+books 
>Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 13:21:36 -0700 
> 
> 
>On Wednesday, July 25, 2001, at 09:21 AM, Darren McClung wrote: 
> 
>>Libraries are an interesting subject. With all the lawsuits being 
>>thrown 
>>around involving intellectual property, the DMCA, and the sort, 
>>Libraries 
>>have come through virtually unscathed. Yet, what a library does is 
>>not 
>>much 
>>different than what companies like MP3.com were doing. 
> 
>Huge difference. 
> 
>MP3/Napster was making copies without paying for them. Note the 
>word 
>"copies." 
> 
>If someone had made ONE copy of a song, for example, and paid for 
>it, 
>then lent it to a friend while deleting the copy on their computer, 
>and 
>then that friend lent it out, deleting it, etc. In other words, if 
>ONE 
>paid-for copy had made the rounds, no one would have cared any more 
>than 
>if you loan your CD to a buddy. 
> 
>This lack of ability to discern the difference is the heart of why 
>so 
>many people don't get "intellectual property" and why writers, 
>musicians, and artist have so much trouble getting the general 
>public to 
>understand the problem. 
> 
> 
>Best, R.E.F. 
> 
>---- 
> 
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away 
>by 
>stupidity. 
> 

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From: Terry Corbett <terrylc_69@yahoo.com>
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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Hello.  I've been lurking on the list for a week or so and I thought I
would introduce myself.  My name is Terry Corbett and I'm a college
student from North Carolina.  I love to read and have a small library
in my room. :)  A friend of mine told me about Raymond E. Feist a
while back.  I admit that I didn't really pay much attention to what
my friend told me then, but he kept bringing up Feist.  He even told
me about a part in Faerie Tale.

Lately, I've been looking for some good fantasy novels to read while
waiting for the next Wheel of Time novel.  I picked up David Farland's
Runelord books and while I loved them, I got the impression that he
might be trying to make Runelords on the scale of the Wheel of Time
series, which is 9th book and shows no sign of coming to a conclusion
any time soon....  Then, I tried out Brian Herbert's Dune prequels
since I had read the Dune Chronicals years ago.  Halfway through House
Harkonnen, I realized that I wasn't into Sci-Fi as much as I was when
I read the orginial Dune books....  Then, I remembled that Raymond
E. Feist fellow my friend used to go on and on about and decided to
give him a try.  Unfortunately, I couldn't remember which came first,
Riftwar or Serpentwar.  And the different sagas are published by
different companies, so neither had a complete list of all of Feist's
books.  So, I picked up Shadow of a Dark Queen because the bookstore I
went to had all of the Serpentwar Sage, but not all of Riftwar.  Also,
in the praise page, someone said it was a good place to start for
those not familar with Feist.  I learned my mistake when I stumbled
upon Crydee.com later on, but as I loved SoaDQ and wanted to know what
happened next, I went ahead with Serpentwar.  I'm halfway through Rage
of a Demon King now.  I went ahead and bought the Riftwar Sage,
though, and I can't wait to read it!  I'll buy the others when I get
to them and hopefully, Krondor: Tear of the Gods will be in paperback
by then. :)

One thing I really like about Feist's books is that instead of having
them all in one HUGE series, it's in several parts.  WoT started to
get kind of stale after the 6th or 7th book, so I thought that this
last one would actually be the LAST one, but it's not....  With
Feist's books, there's no sense of staleness.  The story actually gets
told in 3 or 4 books!  Something else I like is that each saga goes
back to the same worlds as the other ones.  It's always irritated me
when an author would write a trilogy and that would be the end of it.
There wouldn't be any sense of staleness, but there would be a sense
of emptiness.  But with Feist, I'm not going to have to worry about
that.  Once I'm done with Serpentwar, I still will have Riftwar Saga,
the Empire Trilogy, Riftwar Legacy, and the stand alone books, plus
whatever else will be out by the time I read all of these!  If it's
not obvious by now, I'm really excited. :)

Terry Corbett



---------------------------------
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Thank you Raymond, I did not know you were working on
two new books, I look forward to reading them.

Thanks
Peter Senser

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Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 09:18:49 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On Wednesday, July 25, 2001, at 07:57 AM, A Irving wrote:

> Ray, What is your view on libraries that stock your book. I mean, you 
> write
> to make money, yet libraries let people borrow it for, relatively, 
> free. Are
> you just glad that people that would not normally buy/be able to afford 
> your
> books can still read them?
> I only ask this as I was looking at my local library and honoured 
> Enemy, On
> order, already had 52 holds (This is for all the city council libraries 
> in
> Brisbane, Australia). Would you make the same profit from a book sold 
> to a
> library as you would from a book sold to a retailer?
> CIAO,
>           Aaron
>
> http://www.hallofworlds.net/kerr/main.php
> http://www.nightshadow.co.uk
>
>

The books are paid for.  Libraries have to buy them.  It's like you 
buying a book and lending it to a friend.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 09:19:35 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On Wednesday, July 25, 2001, at 07:27 AM, William Marnoch wrote:

> Hi,
> As some of you may have already noticed, Amazon.co.uk are no
> offering the second Riftwar Legends book, "Murder In Lamut" for
> pre-order.
> According to them it will be released on 5th May 2002 and they
> have decided that it will be 400 pages long, the same length as
> they originally claimed Honoured Enemy was going to be which
> makes me doubt their accuracy ;).
> Ray, how accurate is this information, are Amazon just arbitrarily
> making things up again?
>

Not arbitrary, just best guess.

We don't know the length, because we're only about 1/4 through writing 
it.

Best, R.E.F.

----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.

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From: Terry Corbett <terrylc_69@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Nakor
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Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 11:38:13 -0700 (PDT)
From: Terry Corbett <terrylc_69@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Nakor
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>
> I would think a book about Nakor would be very cool!  I'm still somewhat new to Raymond E. Feist's works, but Nakor is already one of my favorite characters!
>Terry Corbett
>  Brad_A_Krahe@allegiance.com.au wrote: For a somewhat ontopic subject: Why is Nakor so darn cool?
>
>K. Griffith



Like yourself, I normally lurk in dark places without a comment on anything
that hits my inbox from the list. Watch what you say about Nakor, I had a
very bad experience about a year or two ago (can't remember exactly, but it
was before the Melbourne - Australia book signing) on this list when I
asked the question whether Ray had ever 'considered' doing a book about
Nakor (I never asked could he). I have only recently joined the list again
:)

Considering for a supporting character through the books we find out
interesting information about Nakor (I wont say alot of information,
because being as old as he is 'could' probably fill a book in itself,
though I find not knowing everything far more interesting - imagination is
a great thing!). Knowing what we know about him I also find his character
'darn cool'. From Shadow of a Dark Queen I fell in love with the Nakor
character (reminded me of a friends gnome illusionist / thief somewhat,
from my old AD&D days).

I would be very interested if anyone has a sort of 'BIO' on Nakor, pieces
of information gathered from all the books he appears in ? If not, if
there's enough interest on the list I could go back through the books and
see what I could dig up ??


P.S. Hello to everyone on the list, this time round I'll try not to get
everyone's blood boiling :)


Regards,

Brad Krahe
SAP Business & Support Consultant
Allegiance Systems
www.allegiance.com.au



---------------------------------
Do You Yahoo!?
Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger
http://phonecard.yahoo.com/

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Subject: Re: library+books
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From: "Darren McClung" <d@dwmc.org>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: library+books
Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 11:21:42 -0500
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Libraries are an interesting subject.  With all the lawsuits being thrown
around involving intellectual property, the DMCA, and the sort, Libraries
have come through virtually unscathed.  Yet, what a library does is not much
different than what companies like MP3.com were doing.  Personally, I was
introduced to Ray's work at the local library.  (well, technically BaK is
what got me interested to rent them in the first place)  I later became a
fan and bought all the books.    Libraries provide a valuable service, and
allow people to find books they wouldn't otherwise be exposed to.  There are
two major disadvantages to borrowing books from libraries though, that I
feel add incentive to owning.

1) delay:  It takes libraries time to get new books in.

2) lines:  As wasjust mentioned, there are 52 in line for a copy of Honoured
Enemy.  These people will probably be waiting for a while.

Combine these two factors and you have some serious wait time for a new
release.  Fans will simply buy the book.  Anyone who is wiling to sit
through the line isn't likely willing to spend 25$USD on the hardcover
anyway.

It will be interesting though how publishers deal with libraries as
technology evolves.  I read an article just recently that several large
publishing companies want to put strict restrictions on the way e-books can
be borrowed.

Darren  (and this concludes my annual post--see you next year! :) )

>
> >From: "A Irving" <aignome@dingoblue.net.au>
> >Ray, What is your view on libraries that stock your book. I mean, you write
> >to make money, yet libraries let people borrow it for, relatively, free.
> >Are
> >you just glad that people that would not normally buy/be able to afford
> >your
> >books can still read them?
> >I only ask this as I was looking at my local library and honoured Enemy, On
> >order, already had 52 holds (This is for all the city council libraries in
> >Brisbane, Australia). Would you make the same profit from a book sold to a
> >library as you would from a book sold to a retailer?
> >CIAO,
> >           Aaron
> >
> As a library assistant, I've always thought the very same
> question. I myself borrowed SOADQ from library, then fell in
> love with Ray's work and went out to buy all the books, including
> SOADQ. I could borrow all of Ray's books and not buy a one, but I
> want to own them! But of course when a library has every book of
> Ray's in stock, availabe for free to borrow, there's not much
> motivation to buy them unless you're a die hard fan.
>
> But from experience, I'd say there are simply two types of
> people, those who borrow the books from library (mostly children,
> students and elder people) and those who buy them. :)
>
> Niko Korhonen



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 09:22:35 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Question...
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On Wednesday, July 25, 2001, at 08:08 AM, Joyce, Tony wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> A few of the recent posts have thrown up a question for me.....
> Regarding the selling of books in other countries and why the US is 
> getting
> Ray's new books after everyone else.
> I understand this is controlled (correct me if I'm wrong coz I'm not 
> 100%
> sure myself) by the publishers and/or suppliers etc.)
> My question is why?
>
> Is there less demand in a country (per capita) for Ray's books within 
> the
> U.S.? ie reader's-styles differ from other countries etc.
>
> Or is this just how this one has turned out?
>

This has nothing to do with any general condition.  This has to do with 
a specific contract problem I'm having with Avon.  It may be we'll 
resolve it soon, and HE and the other Legends books will be coming out 
starting next year, or it may take two or three years to resolve and a 
different publisher will be bringing them out in the US five years from 
now.  I have no way of knowing how this will turn out.

> Anyway,
>
> I'll be unsubscribing to the list in the next few weeks as my notice has
> been served at work and I'm ready to go to NZ for a few years.

Enjoy.  My preference is for OZ, but New Zealand is very beautiful.  My 
only complaint is that outside of Auckland, it's just a little too rural 
for my tastes (thought I do like Wellington a Christ Church).


>
> I'll no doubt re-subscribe when I get myself setup again overseas and
> hopefully will see (albeit on screen) you all again.
>
> For Ray: I hope you have many more years of writing ahead of you and 
> many
> more books to follow. It's a pleasure to be envious
> of someone who can bring out the most basic human feelings in people 
> through
> literature. Nice one :-)

Thanks.  I plan on writing for another twenty or more years, God willing.


Best, R.E.F.

----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.

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From: "niko korhonen" <biisoni@hotmail.com>
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>From: "A Irving" <aignome@dingoblue.net.au>
>Ray, What is your view on libraries that stock your book. I mean, you write
>to make money, yet libraries let people borrow it for, relatively, free. 
>Are
>you just glad that people that would not normally buy/be able to afford 
>your
>books can still read them?
>I only ask this as I was looking at my local library and honoured Enemy, On
>order, already had 52 holds (This is for all the city council libraries in
>Brisbane, Australia). Would you make the same profit from a book sold to a
>library as you would from a book sold to a retailer?
>CIAO,
>           Aaron
>
As a library assistant, I've always thought the very same
question. I myself borrowed SOADQ from library, then fell in
love with Ray's work and went out to buy all the books, including
SOADQ. I could borrow all of Ray's books and not buy a one, but I
want to own them! But of course when a library has every book of
Ray's in stock, availabe for free to borrow, there's not much
motivation to buy them unless you're a die hard fan.

But from experience, I'd say there are simply two types of
people, those who borrow the books from library (mostly children,
students and elder people) and those who buy them. :)

Niko Korhonen

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp



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*** EOOH ***
From: "Joyce, Tony" <Tony.Joyce@eem.sthct.northy.nhs.uk>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Question...
Date:  Wed, 25 Jul 2001 16:08:09 +0100
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Hi all,

A few of the recent posts have thrown up a question for me.....
Regarding the selling of books in other countries and why the US is getting
Ray's new books after everyone else.
I understand this is controlled (correct me if I'm wrong coz I'm not 100%
sure myself) by the publishers and/or suppliers etc.)
My question is why?

Is there less demand in a country (per capita) for Ray's books within the
U.S.? ie reader's-styles differ from other countries etc.

Or is this just how this one has turned out?


Anyway,

I'll be unsubscribing to the list in the next few weeks as my notice has
been served at work and I'm ready to go to NZ for a few years.

I'll no doubt re-subscribe when I get myself setup again overseas and
hopefully will see (albeit on screen) you all again.

For Ray: I hope you have many more years of writing ahead of you and many
more books to follow. It's a pleasure to be envious
of someone who can bring out the most basic human feelings in people through
literature. Nice one :-)

For da rest: *puts his fingers in his ears, crosses his eyes and blows a big
raspberry at ya's*  ;)
			Been a pleasure being part of this list. May your
bookshelves be full and your r.s.i be negligible :-)

Take care, cya's soon...

TJ


-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Umquamne cogitasti de Diabolo, et quod tam gravis ei labor sit? 
Saltare, sibilare, irridere, omnesque terrificere debet. 
Deus modo alte istic sedet, et laudem pro omnibus accipit. 
Necesse est cotidie ut Diabolus istuc egrediatur doloremque distribuat... 
Dolorem distribuat pro isto culo mucoso Deo, et omnes inde hunc oderunt. 

Mihi est Misericordia Pro Diabolo. 
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-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- 



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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Barker" <heechee@softhome.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: movie licenses
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 17:59:22 +1000
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----- Original Message -----
From: Caleb Fox
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2001 4:28 PM
Subject: Re: movie licenses

>I HATE IT WHEN COMPUTER GAMES ARE MADE ABOUT BOOKS, ESPECIALLY FANTASY
>ONES. it ruins the book. the reason you read is because it catches you up in
>the story, you can think about certain things, how certain people look etc.
>with computer games that is all generated and i think it ruins the magic of
>books.
>
>caleb 'krazze' fox

Fair point, and I agree, but a couple of things:

1) Don't tell me what I do. What you do when reading a book is up to me, but
what I do may be completely different.

2) Please use correct capitalisation, etc. It makes it so much easier to
read through your work.

Cheers,
James
-------------------------------------------------------
"Don't worry if I fall, my pro is bomber"



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Subject: TYPO Re: movie licenses
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From: "James Barker" <heechee@softhome.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: TYPO Re: movie licenses
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----- Original Message -----
From: James Barker <heechee@softhome.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2001 5:59 PM
Subject: Re: movie licenses


> Fair point, and I agree, but a couple of things:
>
> 1) Don't tell me what I do. What you do when reading a book is up to YOU, but
> what I do may be completely different.

Note: The word in all caps should have been "you" from the beginning. I'm
kinda tired. :)

Cheers,
James



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Subject: Thanks Ray.
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 07:13:51 -0700
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Jason Martin" <res0b95g@verizon.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Thanks Ray.
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 07:13:51 -0700
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Ray-
    Just finally finished up ToG last night and I just wanted to say Thanks,
I greatly enjoyed it!   I had to take my time on this one and try to have
less time between books. =)  I would have to say the action was paced just
like the Mummy Returns!   I think so far this book had the most action all
the way through it.

Thanks,

Jason

PS who is now marking off the days till Honored Enemy and thinking about
Importing the UK version.

"Mas Tequila!"
       Red Vodoo- Sammy Hagar



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From: "Darren McClung" <d@dwmc.org>
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Subject: Re: library+books
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Darren McClung" <d@dwmc.org>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: library+books
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 10:11:10 -0500
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For the record, I do not defend Napster.  Napster is clearly wrong.

MP3.com, OTOH, is a much different, in that you had to prove you had
physical ownership of an album before it was unlocked.

Darren

----- Original Message -----
From: "Raymond Feist" <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2001 3:21 PM
Subject: Re: library+books


>
> On Wednesday, July 25, 2001, at 09:21 AM, Darren McClung wrote:
>
> > Libraries are an interesting subject.  With all the lawsuits being
> > thrown
> > around involving intellectual property, the DMCA, and the sort,
> > Libraries
> > have come through virtually unscathed.  Yet, what a library does is not
> > much
> > different than what companies like MP3.com were doing.
>
> Huge difference.
>
> MP3/Napster was making copies without paying for them.  Note the word
> "copies."
>
> If someone had made ONE copy of a song, for example, and paid for it,
> then lent it to a friend while deleting the copy on their computer, and
> then that friend lent it out, deleting it, etc.  In other words, if ONE
> paid-for copy had made the rounds, no one would have cared any more than
> if you loan your CD to a buddy.
>
> This lack of ability to discern the difference is the heart of why so
> many people don't get "intellectual property" and why writers,
> musicians, and artist have so much trouble getting the general public to
> understand the problem.
>
>
> Best, R.E.F.
>
> ----
>
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
> stupidity.
>



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> For the record, I do not defend Napster.  Napster is clearly wrong.
> 
> MP3.com, OTOH, is a much different, in that you had to prove you had
> physical ownership of an album before it was unlocked.

If we're going to nitpick, let's nitpick. If you don't care about 
nitpicking, then skip the rest.




MP3.com had several different features on their site that got them in 
trouble, including open downloading of MP3 files -- you're only 
referring to one of the features (which, as I recall, they have since 
come to an agreement with the copyright holders on, so they're now 
legal despite the distinction mentioned below). It's certainly the 
most interesting of the cases.

They have a feature (MyMP3) that allows you to "stream" music from 
their site, provided that you prove you had physical POSSESION of a 
CD. That's the first nitpick part -- possession, not ownership. 
That's the difference that got the copyright holders to go after them 
-- I loan you my CD, you use it to verify possession and get the 
right to stream from MP3, then I take it back and do the same thing, 
and we could both listen to the same music from MP3's site without 
either of us having to have the CD at all. It's not nearly as open 
for abuse as Napster, but it still raised some eyebrows.

The second nitpicking issue that got them in trouble was creating the 
MP3 files to begin with. If you don't have copyright permission, then 
making a copy is illegal -- and MP3 couldn't really claim it was 
making copies for its own personal use, could it?

Of course, if my memory is correct and they do have a legal agreement 
with the copyright holders, then it's all a dead issue.

---
  "All men are moral. Only their neighbors are not."
  - character from a John Steinbeck novel (I forget which character/novel)



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 I hear everyone's points about Napster, and I can understand their
arguments. However, the question I'm always asking is: why is it
illegal to download mp3 when everybody is recording cassettes from a
friend's CD?

IMO, the only difference is that Napster is worlwide, while recording
cassettes can only be done in the neighbourhood, with relatives. Thus,
we are talking about greater numbers and consequently it can affect
the industry.

So is Napster that wrong? Probably. However, I would never condemn
it. I was a user, I downloaded some nifty songs I would never have
bought just because I don't buy disks for one song. I also found it
useful to download songs I already have on CD, but was to lazy to
convert in mp3 for my comp.

I guess some people abused the system, like in everything in
life. However, I still have my doubts it was so "evil" for the
industry.

PJ

--

On Thu, 26 Jul 2001 09:16:52  
 Earl Borah wrote:
>> For the record, I do not defend Napster.  Napster is clearly wrong.
>> 
>> MP3.com, OTOH, is a much different, in that you had to prove you had
>> physical ownership of an album before it was unlocked.
>
>If we're going to nitpick, let's nitpick. If you don't care about 
>nitpicking, then skip the rest.
>
>
>
>
>MP3.com had several different features on their site that got them in 
>trouble, including open downloading of MP3 files -- you're only 
>referring to one of the features (which, as I recall, they have since 
>come to an agreement with the copyright holders on, so they're now 
>legal despite the distinction mentioned below). It's certainly the 
>most interesting of the cases.
>
>They have a feature (MyMP3) that allows you to "stream" music from 
>their site, provided that you prove you had physical POSSESION of a 
>CD. That's the first nitpick part -- possession, not ownership. 
>That's the difference that got the copyright holders to go after them 
>-- I loan you my CD, you use it to verify possession and get the 
>right to stream from MP3, then I take it back and do the same thing, 
>and we could both listen to the same music from MP3's site without 
>either of us having to have the CD at all. It's not nearly as open 
>for abuse as Napster, but it still raised some eyebrows.
>
>The second nitpicking issue that got them in trouble was creating the 
>MP3 files to begin with. If you don't have copyright permission, then 
>making a copy is illegal -- and MP3 couldn't really claim it was 
>making copies for its own personal use, could it?
>
>Of course, if my memory is correct and they do have a legal agreement 
>with the copyright holders, then it's all a dead issue.
>
>---
>  "All men are moral. Only their neighbors are not."
>  - character from a John Steinbeck novel (I forget which character/novel)
>
>


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From: Terry Corbett <terrylc_69@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Greetings
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 11:22:20 -0700 (PDT)
From: Terry Corbett <terrylc_69@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Greetings
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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 I got to NC A&T State University.  However, I've been a Carolina fan
all my life. :) I would have gone there, but UNC-CH didn't have
engineering when I applied for college.
Terry
"Friends don't let friends go to Dook" :)

STEPHEN M RUSSELL <smrussel@email.unc.edu> wrote:
>Terry,
>
>Welcome to the list. Which college do you attend? Since you're a Feist
>fan, and therefore obviously have at least _some_ sense, you certainly
>don't go to Dook or State. Hopefully :)
>
>
>Steve Russell (smrussel@email.unc.edu)
>Publisher, Carolina Review
>
>
>> Hello. I've been lurking on the list for a week or so and I thought I
>> would introduce myself. My name is terry Corbett and I'm a college
>> student from North Carolina...
>
>

---------------------------------
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From: Gary Ponting <gary.ponting@van.hinz.com>
To: "FEISTFANS Mailing List (E-mail)" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Kush versus Kesh
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 11:32:30 -0700
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*** EOOH ***
From: Gary Ponting <gary.ponting@van.hinz.com>
To: "FEISTFANS Mailing List (E-mail)" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Kush versus Kesh
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 11:32:30 -0700
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Hi Ray,
 
I was reading about ancient trade routes and came across a reference to
Kush. It was an area in the interior of Africa.
 
Just wondering if this is where you got the name Kesh from?

..Gary

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From: "Earl Borah" <earl@ncn.com>
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>  I hear everyone's points about Napster, and I can understand their
>  arguments. However, the question I'm always asking is: why is it
>  illegal to download mp3 when everybody is recording cassettes from a
>  friend's CD?
> 
> IMO, the only difference is that Napster is worlwide, while recording
> cassettes can only be done in the neighbourhood, with relatives. Thus,
> we are talking about greater numbers and consequently it can affect
> the industry.

You've hit the nail on the head. Copying a CD onto a cassette and 
giving it to your friend is also illegal. However, the costs associated 
(buying the cassette, taking the time to record it, distributing it to a 
small number of friends) is such that it's not worth the effort to go 
after the abusers. So while it's illegal, the music industry has 
traditionally turned a blind eye on the practice, unless it's done on 
a large scale.

But with Napster, it costs virtually nothing to illegally copy 
thousands or even millions of songs. The duplication costs are 
trivial, the storage costs are trivial, and the distribution costs are 
trivial. More people could steal music from Napster in one day than 
was probably copied onto cassettes and given away in a year.

If Napster was "just like recording a CD to cassette," or "just like 
recording from the radio," then why was it needed at all? Why not 
just copy from a CD or from the radio? The very fact that it was so 
popular tells you that it was something different from the things it's 
been compared to.

If Napster was all about sharing music that was unavailable 
commercially, or was from small bands that wanted to share their 
music, then why did it dry up and die when they installed filters to 
remove listings that were obvious copyright violations?


> So is Napster that wrong? Probably. However, I would never condemn it.
> I was a user, I downloaded some nifty songs I would never have bought
> just because I don't buy disks for one song. I also found it useful to

Which doesn't mean you didn't violate copyright -- breaking federal 
(and international) law. It doesn't mean you weren't stealing.

If I break into your house and steal one movie from your DVD 
library, is that okay? I'm only stealing the one movie that I would 
never buy for myself, so that makes it okay, right? A small theft 
certainly isn't as bad as a large theft, right?

People can justify whatever they want to justify. Stealing 
intellectual property is easier to justify than stealing physical 
objects, but it has a similar effect on the people its stolen from. 
The economics of scale work both ways -- just as one person 
copying one CD for a friend isn't going to make Madonna lose any 
sleep, millions of people making millions of illegal copies could 
force a small band to break up and go back to waiting tables. 
Widespread "sharing" of music will drive CD prices down the same 
way that shoplifting does.


> I guess some people abused the system, like in everything in life.
> However, I still have my doubts it was so "evil" for the industry.

Not relevant. The copyright holder has the RIGHT to decide who 
can COPY the work. Whether the choices he makes are good or 
evil for the industry is irrelevant. The copyright holder has every 
right to shoot himself in the foot if he so chooses -- if (as a fictitious 
example) Ray and his publishers want to stop printing all his works 
so you couldn't buy a copy of Magician or anything else he's 
written, that's their right. It wouldn't be good for Ray or for the 
publisher, but it's their choice to make, not mine or yours.

Technically, one person downloading one copyrighted song 
(without permission of the original copyright holder, that is) was 
abusing the system.

And no, I don't write books or record music...but I do write software 
from time to time, and don't enjoy seeing my work stolen by those 
who obviously see benefit in my work, but don't want to pay me for 
it. That's slave labor, isn't it?

---
  "All men are moral. Only their neighbors are not."
  - character from a John Steinbeck novel (I forget which character/novel)



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Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: "Michael Gibson" <gibfish@gibbyco.freeserve.co.uk>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: library+books
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 19:55:35 +0100
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>  I hear everyone's points about Napster, and I can understand their
> arguments. However, the question I'm always asking is: why is it
> illegal to download mp3 when everybody is recording cassettes from a
> friend's CD?
>
> IMO, the only difference is that Napster is worlwide, while recording
> cassettes can only be done in the neighbourhood, with relatives.
> Thus, we are talking about greater numbers and consequently it can
> affect the industry.

The distributability is one factor - even with a standard modem dial up
connection, the time taken for a song to download is short enough, such that
people will do it regularly (as Napster showed).

The second issue is recording format - cassettes are an analogue recording
format, and without seriously expensive tape decks, there is a limit to the
number of generations of copies that can be made, before the quality drops
drastically.  With an .mp3, however, as they are digital, they can be recorded
easily and  copied ad infinitum.  Eg, I could rip a song of one of my cds in a
matter of minutes, and pass it round this here list.  I'd get the same .mp3 file
back, even after 500 or so generations.

Mike,
Gibfish of the West.
                                          Check out my forums at:
"If a problem appears simple, then it     http://www.tonrae.co.uk/forums/
probably hasn't been thought through."

> So is Napster that wrong? Probably. However, I would never condemn
> it. I was a user, I downloaded some nifty songs I would never have
> bought just because I don't buy disks for one song. I also found it
> useful to download songs I already have on CD, but was to lazy to
> convert in mp3 for my comp.
>
> I guess some people abused the system, like in everything in life.
> However, I still have my doubts it was so "evil" for the industry.
>
> PJ

<snip>



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 12:17:06 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Kush versus Kesh
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Thursday, July 26, 2001, at 11:32 AM, Gary Ponting wrote:

> Hi Ray,
>  
> I was reading about ancient trade routes and came across a reference to 
> Kush. It was an area in the interior of Africa.
>  
> Just wondering if this is where you got the name Kesh from?
>
>

Nope.  I got it from Steve Abrams.  Where he got it, I don't know.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.

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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 12:18:37 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: library+books
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Thursday, July 26, 2001, at 10:46 AM, Paddyjack [ ] wrote:

>  I hear everyone's points about Napster, and I can understand their 
> arguments. However, the question I'm always asking is: why is it 
> illegal to download mp3 when everybody is recording cassettes from a 
> friend's CD?

Both are illegal activities.  It's just that making dubs from your 
friend's CDs is impossible to enforce.  Now, you do it with a high speed 
dupe machine and make fifty copies a minute, then sell them at your 
local swap-meet, you'll eventually get busted.


>
> IMO, the only difference is that Napster is worlwide, while recording 
> cassettes can only be done in the neighbourhood, with relatives. Thus, 
> we are talking about greater numbers and consequently it can affect the 
> industry.
>
> So is Napster that wrong? Probably. However, I would never condemn it. 
> I was a user, I downloaded some nifty songs I would never have bought 
> just because I don't buy disks for one song. I also found it useful to 
> download songs I already have on CD, but was to lazy to convert in mp3 
> for my comp.
>
> I guess some people abused the system, like in everything in life. 
> However, I still have my doubts it was so "evil" for the industry.
>

It's really simple.  If you didn't create it, you don't have the right 
to make unauthorized copies.  It's the law.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.

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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 20:52:26 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: John <john@crydee.com>
Subject: The FEISTFANS-L Members Listing REMINDER
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The FEISTFANS-L Members Listing is now located at Crydee.com

http://www.crydee.com/feist/resource/fans/feistfans.htm

If your location is in white it is currently correct and verified

I would ask anyone who has not already verified to me their information 
to do so ASAP.

102 Have verified
239 Still not verified

Don't forget, if you haven't already sent me confirmation or update of 
your details by the end of July your Entry WILL be deleted.

Re- listing after that time will likely be on a Bi-monthly basis
-- 
John

john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.

Raymond E Feist Ring
http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm



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Subject: and so the story goes wildly OT
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Magnus Arvidsson" <magnus.arvidsson75@telia.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: and so the story goes wildly OT
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 22:15:17 +0200
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

About copyright and mp3 and such things... Napster,
may the service rest in peace, got nailed because it
was a public service, a company... But I know that
Napster's demise won't stop sharing of copyrighted music.

I bet some of you remember a time before Napster.
Private servers, ftp-programs, mIRC-channels dealing 
in mp3, software etc etc. This business does not stop
with the fall of Napster... It has been going for years, 
and will keep on going... I feel sad for those who loose
income due to this criminal activity, but it can't be stopped.

I for one buy _more_ cd's after I have listened to mp3s. 
And it has saved me from buying crappy cds as well..

errr, my point? It is a ghost-chase. One good thing though is
that E-books don't seem to work as well as e-music (mp3). 
I would never read a book on a computer. I have some copies (not illeagal copies)
of old books and my head hurts when I read them (for studies only...)

Anyway, I'm patiently waiting for the next Ray Feist novel to hit the market!
Pre-ordered it a while back and can't wait to read it! Hopefully I'll see some
H. P. Lovecraft inspired eeevil characters in the new books.. =) 
Joseph Curwen maybe? =) (The Case of Charles Dexter Ward by H P Lovecraft..)
ps. That was a joke...

Magnus

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From: "Michael Gibson" <gibfish@gibbyco.freeserve.co.uk>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Kush versus Kesh
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 21:49:10 +0100
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*** EOOH ***
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: "Michael Gibson" <gibfish@gibbyco.freeserve.co.uk>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Kush versus Kesh
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 21:49:10 +0100
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

> > Hi Ray,
> >
> > I was reading about ancient trade routes and came across a
> reference to Kush. It was an area in the interior of Africa.
> >
> > Just wondering if this is where you got the name Kesh from?
>
>
>
>
> Nope. I got it from Steve Abrams. Where he got it, I don't know.


I may be off the mark here, but are you (Gary) sure that you didn't read about
the Hindu Kush?  The HK is in Afghanistan, IIRC.

Mike,
Gibfish of the West.
                                          Check out my forums at:
"If a problem appears simple, then it     http://www.tonrae.co.uk/forums/
probably hasn't been thought through."



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From: Gary Ponting <gary.ponting@van.hinz.com>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Kush versus Kesh
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 14:23:13 -0700
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*** EOOH ***
From: Gary Ponting <gary.ponting@van.hinz.com>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Kush versus Kesh
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 14:23:13 -0700
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Nope you are off the mark.

If you are interested in the website I read it on go too:

http://www.ancientroute.com/

It is quite an interesting site.

..gary

-----Original Message-----
>From: Michael Gibson [mailto:gibfish@gibbyco.freeserve.co.uk]
>Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2001 1:49 PM
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: RE: Kush versus Kesh
>
>
>> > Hi Ray,
>> >
>> > I was reading about ancient trade routes and came across a
>> reference to Kush. It was an area in the interior of Africa.
>> >
>> > Just wondering if this is where you got the name Kesh from?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Nope. I got it from Steve Abrams. Where he got it, I don't know.
>
>
>I may be off the mark here, but are you (Gary) sure that you didn't read
>about
>the Hindu Kush?  The HK is in Afghanistan, IIRC.
>
>Mike,
>Gibfish of the West.
>					   Check out my forums at:
>"If a problem appears simple, then it     http://www.tonrae.co.uk/forums/
>probably hasn't been thought through."
>


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Subject: Re: Kush versus Kesh
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 23:42:08 +0200
Subject: Re: Kush versus Kesh
From: "Sylvain Guehl" <fenyxkell@demo.xandmail.com>
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> Nope.  I got it from Steve Abrams.  Where he got it, I don't know.
> 
> Best, R.E.F.

Btw Ray, is it the Empire that is named after the City, or the City 
of Kesh that is named after the Empire ? (I guess it's the first one 
but one never knows...)

Syl



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Subject: OT:(but still related) Outlook 2002/XP
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Subject: OT:(but still related) Outlook 2002/XP
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 16:12:51 -0700
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My company recently bought this program and is giving a few copies to
test out before upgrading all the machines.  (We are still using 97
mostly).

I just wanted to know if anyone on the list has the program and their
thoughts.  Specifically there is new feature in Outlook 2002 that allows
you to remove extra line breaks from message that you recieve and
forward or reply to.  This isn't to closely related to the list, but the
I know how some emails sent with outlook and outlook express look odd in
other programs.

PS.  I think the best thing that anyone can do is to always send their
mail in plain text format.  That way there is almost no chance of it
being infected with a virus or in a format that your emailee(?) can't
read.


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 16:31:47 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Kush versus Kesh
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On Thursday, July 26, 2001, at 02:42 PM, Sylvain Guehl wrote:

>> Nope.  I got it from Steve Abrams.  Where he got it, I don't know.
>>
>> Best, R.E.F.
>
> Btw Ray, is it the Empire that is named after the City, or the City
> of Kesh that is named after the Empire ? (I guess it's the first one
> but one never knows...)
>
> Syl
>
>

City first, then Empire, like Rome.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
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Subject: Re: Kush versus Kesh
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Kush versus Kesh
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 18:51:15 -0500
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Kush is a term found throughout the ancient world, I can think of
its use at least three different times.  Like a lot of other
terms/names (most pointedly Alexandria, etc) it traveled with
conquerors and traders.  So often we can find multiple references to
the same word in history with each one referring to another region.

-James

"90% of what is on the web is speculation, hearsay, or just plain
bullsh*t."


> Nope you are off the mark.
>
> If you are interested in the website I read it on go too:
>
> http://www.ancientroute.com/
>
> It is quite an interesting site.
>
> ..gary

>
> > > Hi Ray,
> > >
> > > I was reading about ancient trade routes and came across a
> > reference to Kush. It was an area in the interior of Africa.
> > >
> > > Just wondering if this is where you got the name Kesh from?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Nope. I got it from Steve Abrams. Where he got it, I don't know.
>
>
> I may be off the mark here, but are you (Gary) sure that you didn't read
> about
> the Hindu Kush?  The HK is in Afghanistan, IIRC.
>
> Mike,
> Gibfish of the West.
>                                           Check out my forums at:
> "If a problem appears simple, then it http://www.tonrae.co.uk/forums/
> probably hasn't been thought through."
>



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From: "A Irving" <aignome@dingoblue.net.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
References: <PGJILBAHGMOGEAAA@mailcity.com>
Subject: OT was Re: library+books
Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 11:41:04 +1000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "A Irving" <aignome@dingoblue.net.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: OT was Re: library+books
Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 11:41:04 +1000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Just a quick piece of information. Napster is down and out at the moment,
with almost no files available for download. But, it is changing. The new
napster soon to be released, check out the Beta section on the napster
website. It is a membership service where you pay a fee, they pay some of
this fee to to the artists. Obviously still has a few conflicts which they
are trying to sort out . (Probably means less money for the producers, so I
can see many lawsuits).
----- Original Message -----
From: Paddyjack [ ] <erykel@lycos.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Friday, July 27, 2001 3:46 AM
Subject: Re: library+books


> I hear everyone's points about Napster, and I can understand their
>arguments. However, the question I'm always asking is: why is it illegal to
>download mp3 when everybody is recording cassettes from a friend's CD?
>
> IMO, the only difference is that Napster is worlwide, while recording
>cassettes can only be done in the neighbourhood, with relatives. Thus, we
>are talking about greater numbers and consequently it can affect the
>industry.
>
> So is Napster that wrong? Probably. However, I would never condemn it. I
>was a user, I downloaded some nifty songs I would never have bought just
>because I don't buy disks for one song. I also found it useful to download
>songs I already have on CD, but was to lazy to convert in mp3 for my comp.
>
> I guess some people abused the system, like in everything in life.
>However, I still have my doubts it was so "evil" for the industry.
>
> PJ
>
> --
>
> On Thu, 26 Jul 2001 09:16:52
>  Earl Borah wrote:
> >> For the record, I do not defend Napster.  Napster is clearly wrong.
> >>
> >> MP3.com, OTOH, is a much different, in that you had to prove you had
> >> physical ownership of an album before it was unlocked.
> >
> >If we're going to nitpick, let's nitpick. If you don't care about
> >nitpicking, then skip the rest.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >MP3.com had several different features on their site that got them in
> >trouble, including open downloading of MP3 files -- you're only
> >referring to one of the features (which, as I recall, they have since
> >come to an agreement with the copyright holders on, so they're now
> >legal despite the distinction mentioned below). It's certainly the
> >most interesting of the cases.
> >
> >They have a feature (MyMP3) that allows you to "stream" music from
> >their site, provided that you prove you had physical POSSESION of a
> >CD. That's the first nitpick part -- possession, not ownership.
> >That's the difference that got the copyright holders to go after them
> >-- I loan you my CD, you use it to verify possession and get the
> >right to stream from MP3, then I take it back and do the same thing,
> >and we could both listen to the same music from MP3's site without
> >either of us having to have the CD at all. It's not nearly as open
> >for abuse as Napster, but it still raised some eyebrows.
> >
> >The second nitpicking issue that got them in trouble was creating the
> >MP3 files to begin with. If you don't have copyright permission, then
> >making a copy is illegal -- and MP3 couldn't really claim it was
> >making copies for its own personal use, could it?
> >
> >Of course, if my memory is correct and they do have a legal agreement
> >with the copyright holders, then it's all a dead issue.
> >
> >---
> >  "All men are moral. Only their neighbors are not."
> >  - character from a John Steinbeck novel (I forget which character/novel)
> >
> >
>
>
> Get 250 color business cards for FREE!
> http://businesscards.lycos.com/vp/fastpath/
>



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<SNIP>
>If I break into your house and steal one movie from your DVD 
>library, is that okay? I'm only stealing the one movie that I would 
>never buy for myself, so that makes it okay, right? A small theft 
>certainly isn't as bad as a large theft, right?

If one person broke into my house and stole one DVD or CD, I would be rightfully
pissed off but wouldn't do anything about it because it would be too much hassle.
 If a million people all broke into my house and each stole one DVD or CD (if
I had that many) then I would cry bloody murder, which is exactly what happened
with Napster.

Now that I've said this, I was all for Napster.  I liked the option to try before
you buy.  I bought more CD's while using Napster than at any other time in my
life.  It was also good for trying to find old songs that are hard to find in
stores that you really like aswell.  Still it was misused and it was probably
the right thing to do, shutting it down.  It was nice while it lasted :-(.

- MARK



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Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 20:39:33 +1000
From: "Jason Mulligan" <sulimo@bigpond.net.au>
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On 27/07/2001 at 11:41 AM A Irving wrote:

>Just a quick piece of information. Napster is down and out at the moment,
>with almost no files available for download. But, it is changing. The new
>napster soon to be released, check out the Beta section on the napster
>website. It is a membership service where you pay a fee, they pay some of
>this fee to to the artists. Obviously still has a few conflicts which they
>are trying to sort out . (Probably means less money for the producers, so I
>can see many lawsuits).

Plus the new Napster will be using a new music format, not MP3. A format 
that has some security features. Amazingly it isnt .wma or Real Audio. That 
was the real surprise from my POV.


>



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From: "niko korhonen" <biisoni@hotmail.com>
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>From: "Magnus Arvidsson" <magnus.arvidsson75@telia.com>
>About copyright and mp3 and such things... Napster,
>may the service rest in peace, got nailed because it
>was a public service, a company... But I know that
>Napster's demise won't stop sharing of copyrighted music.
>
>I bet some of you remember a time before Napster.
>Private servers, ftp-programs, mIRC-channels dealing
>in mp3, software etc etc. This business does not stop
>with the fall of Napster... It has been going for years,
>and will keep on going... I feel sad for those who loose
>income due to this criminal activity, but it can't be stopped.
>

One of the late Napster clones, 'Morpheus', seems to be
pretty popular right now. I hear they're even sharing
videos and other stuff like that. I wonder how long
can they last.

The record companies should wake up from their dreams
and start to realize that internet is something they
can use to help increase their sales. They just keep
fighting against Napster and other 'boogiemen' instead
of trying to find ways to distribute(sp?) the music
legally via internet.

Niko Korhonen


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp



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From: "Michael Gibson" <gibfish@gibbyco.freeserve.co.uk>
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Subject: RE: library+books
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Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: "Michael Gibson" <gibfish@gibbyco.freeserve.co.uk>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: library+books
Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 14:22:18 +0100
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> <SNIP>
> >If I break into your house and steal one movie from your DVD
> >library, is that okay? I'm only stealing the one movie that I would
> >never buy for myself, so that makes it okay, right? A small theft
> >certainly isn't as bad as a large theft, right?
>
> If one person broke into my house and stole one DVD or CD, I would be
> rightfully
> pissed off but wouldn't do anything about it because it would be too
> much hassle.
>  If a million people all broke into my house and each stole one DVD or CD (if
> I had that many) then I would cry bloody murder, which is exactly
> what happened
> with Napster.
>
> Now that I've said this, I was all for Napster.  I liked the option
> to try before
> you buy.  I bought more CD's while using Napster than at any other time in my
> life.  It was also good for trying to find old songs that are hard to find in
> stores that you really like aswell.  Still it was misused and it was probably
> the right thing to do, shutting it down.  It was nice while it lasted :-(.

I guess most people who download the odd mp3 are similar, and hopefully would
use them as an opportunity to try before you buy, but there some with gigabytes
of downloaded files, who wouldn't even think of buying a legit copy.

I would say a similar thing about libraries, except all trial copies are legit.
There are a number of series of books that I would not have bought if I had not
first got them out from a library, or borrowed from a friend.  If you're not
thinking, "this is going to cost me £10", when you pick up a book, you can be
more interested in the book itself, rather than thinking you could have been
better off getting another book.  And thankfully, photocopying/scanning a book
is usually more troublesome/expensive than actually buying the book.

Mike,
Gibfish of the West.
                                          Check out my forums at:
"If a problem appears simple, then it     http://www.tonrae.co.uk/forums/
probably hasn't been thought through."



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From: "Sonia Tabe" <sonia@nt-tech.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Fan Art
Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2001 01:33:47 +0930
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Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: "Sonia Tabe" <sonia@nt-tech.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Fan Art
Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2001 01:33:47 +0930
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Just thought I'd talk a little about fanart. No biggie. I've just been
looking it up for hours. WHY CAN'T I FIND ANY IMAGES OF ARUTHA???!!!
((sorry, had to get that off my chest...)) I mean, his my favorite character
in the books and everything, but it seems as if no-one wants to do any
pictures of him... Anyone know where I can find some?
Also while doing my futile search for Arutha at Elfwood, I saw some really
good pictures for my other favorite fantasy character, Raistlin Majere. So
the whole time wasn't a waste... Quite the opposite! =Þ
So remember, if you know of any pictures of Arutha... ((god forgive I'd have
to attempt one myself!))

Also, I am in the first few chapters of the Mara of Acoma series. So far so
good... Unfortunately the three books will be over all too soon, and It'll
be agony waiting for Honored Enemy. I know it's coming out next month... But
still... I'm sure you all know what I mean =0)

Until I type again,
~Sonia



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 09:12:08 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Fan Art
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On Friday, July 27, 2001, at 09:03 AM, Sonia Tabe wrote:

> Just thought I'd talk a little about fanart. No biggie. I've just been
> looking it up for hours. WHY CAN'T I FIND ANY IMAGES OF ARUTHA???!!!
> ((sorry, had to get that off my chest...)) I mean, his my favorite 
> character
> in the books and everything, but it seems as if no-one wants to do any
> pictures of him... Anyone know where I can find some?
> Also while doing my futile search for Arutha at Elfwood, I saw some 
> really
> good pictures for my other favorite fantasy character, Raistlin Majere. 
> So
> the whole time wasn't a waste... Quite the opposite! =Þ
> So remember, if you know of any pictures of Arutha... ((god forgive I'd 
> have
> to attempt one myself!))
>
> Also, I am in the first few chapters of the Mara of Acoma series. So 
> far so
> good... Unfortunately the three books will be over all too soon, and 
> It'll
> be agony waiting for Honored Enemy. I know it's coming out next 
> month... But
> still... I'm sure you all know what I mean =0)
>
> Until I type again,
> ~Sonia
>
>


The only image of Arutha I've ever seen was the one Don Maitz did for 
the cover of Silverthorn.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
Subject: Re: Fan Art
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: "Gary Stenhouse" <STENGAR@uk.ibm.com>
Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 17:13:24 +0100
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Hello all,


one of the many lurkers who appears every so often, I was having a look at
Janny Wurts site the other day and did not realize that she was such an
amazing artist.  Did she do any of the Fiest Covers?

Cheers

Gary J Stenhouse

"He who knows it all is either very wise
or very foolish, either way he is disappointed
Because he has stolen away the heart of wonder"

"Tad Williams"




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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 09:41:33 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On Friday, July 27, 2001, at 09:13 AM, Gary Stenhouse wrote:

>
> Hello all,
>
>
> one of the many lurkers who appears every so often, I was having a look 
> at
> Janny Wurts site the other day and did not realize that she was such an
> amazing artist.  Did she do any of the Fiest Covers?
>

Janny did the original cover for Daughter of the Empire, but she's never 
done any of my solo covers.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 10:13:21 -0700 (PDT)
From: Terry Corbett <terrylc_69@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Fan Art
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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 Speaking of cover art, who did the inside cover art for Rage of a
Demon King?  Those pictures are amazing, especially the one of Pug and
Miranda.  At first, I thought that was a photograph of Pug. :) Also,
is that Karli or Helen Jacoby in the picture with Roo?
Terry
  Gary Stenhouse <STENGAR@uk.ibm.com> wrote: 
>Hello all,
>
>
>one of the many lurkers who appears every so often, I was having a look at
>Janny Wurts site the other day and did not realize that she was such an
>amazing artist. Did she do any of the Fiest Covers?
>
>Cheers
>
>Gary J Stenhouse
>
>"He who knows it all is either very wise
>or very foolish, either way he is disappointed
>Because he has stolen away the heart of wonder"
>
>"Tad Williams"

---------------------------------
Do You Yahoo!?
Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger
http://phonecard.yahoo.com/

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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 10:21:31 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Fan Art
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On Friday, July 27, 2001, at 10:13 AM, Terry Corbett wrote:

> Speaking of cover art, who did the inside cover art for Rage of a Demon 
> King?  Those pictures are amazing, especially the one of Pug and 
> Miranda.  At first, I thought that was a photograph of Pug. :)  Also, 
> is that Karli or Helen Jacoby in the picture with Roo?
>
> Terry
>
>
>
> T----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.

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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 10:23:09 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Fan Art
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On Friday, July 27, 2001, at 10:13 AM, Terry Corbett wrote:

> Speaking of cover art, who did the inside cover art for Rage of a Demon 
> King?  Those pictures are amazing, especially the one of Pug and 
> Miranda.  At first, I thought that was a photograph of Pug. :)  Also, 
> is that Karli or Helen Jacoby in the picture with Roo?
>
> Terry
>
>

The artist's name should be somewhere on the flip side of the title 
page.  They usually get a credit there, or on the back cover.  That's 
Karli, if memory serves.  I don't have the book handy, as I still 
haven't unpacked most of my books since the move.

Best, R.E.F.

----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.

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From: "John crawley" <john@crawleyp.fsbusiness.co.uk>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
References: <20010727171322.24423.qmail@web12708.mail.yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Fan Art
Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 18:44:49 +0100
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*** EOOH ***
From: "John crawley" <john@crawleyp.fsbusiness.co.uk>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Fan Art
Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 18:44:49 +0100
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

> Speaking of cover art, who did the inside cover art for Rage of a
> Demon King?  Those pictures are amazing, especially the one of Pug
> and Miranda.  At first, I thought that was a photograph of Pug. :)
> Also, is that Karli or Helen Jacoby in the picture with Roo?

  Is there anywhere you can find these pictures on the internet?  
  Thanks to anyone who helps.

  John

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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 10:53:20 -0700
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Subject: Re: and so the story goes wildly OT
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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 10:53:20 -0700
Subject: Re: and so the story goes wildly OT
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> The record companies should wake up from their dreams
> and start to realize that internet is something they
> can use to help increase their sales. They just keep
> fighting against Napster and other 'boogiemen' instead
> of trying to find ways to distribute(sp?) the music
> legally via internet.


Actually, they're doing both. Besides the deal with Napster to create 
a fee-based service, there are plan from Real to offer a music 
service, and Microsoft is making some noise in that area as well.

But why would you pay for the music company's version of the song, 
when you can get it for free somewhere else? The illegal services 
need to be either shut down, or hassled enough that they become 
difficult to use, before the pay services are likely to do much.

Add to that the issues regarding copy protection (how do you make it 
difficult for people to rip off your music when you post it online 
and allow them to download it to their own computer, without making 
it difficult for the honest people to listen to it without a lot of 
hassle), and you have some tough issues to address.

---
  "All men are moral. Only their neighbors are not."
  - character from a John Steinbeck novel (I forget which character/novel)



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who is the guy with the sword in the inside cover art of Rage? Seemed to me 
that it was Erik, but a lot different from the cover in SOADK, and not so 
big as I supposed.

Beers,
Alvaro

"Let us so live that when we come to die even the undertaker will be sorry."
Mark Twain





_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp



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From: "Paul S. Evans" <ferrari_f1@lineone.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Honoured Enemy in UK shops today!
Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 22:03:46 +0100
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From: "Paul S. Evans" <ferrari_f1@lineone.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Honoured Enemy in UK shops today!
Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 22:03:46 +0100
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Hi All,

Just thought I'd drop a line to the list to say that I picked up my copy of
Honoured Enemy in Waterstones, Birmingham today - over a week before the
official publishing date.  Can't wait to read it over the weekend!

Regards,
Paul



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From: Terry Corbett <terrylc_69@yahoo.com>
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 I assume that it's Erik.  I thought it was Calis at first, but then I looked at the ears.  So, the only other person I could think of was Erik.
Terry
  Alvaro Santos <weretraira@hotmail.com> wrote: 
>who is the guy with the sword in the inside cover art of Rage? Seemed to me 
>that it was Erik, but a lot different from the cover in SOADK, and not so 
>big as I supposed.
>
>Beers,
>Alvaro
>
>"Let us so live that when we come to die even the undertaker will be sorry."
>Mark Twain
>
>
>
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>
>

---------------------------------
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From: John <john@crydee.com>
Subject: Honoured Enemy 
References: <DKENKCENMPIPFBKFMLNBGEKNCDAA.ferrari_f1@lineone.net>
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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: John <john@crydee.com>
Subject: Honoured Enemy 
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As it has now been announced that Honoured Enemy is in the shops I will 
advise of additions to Crydee.com

A short review in the Reviews section, Great Story no real spoilers

and


WARNING READING THIS INFORMATION MAY SPOIL THE BOOK FOR YOU

Select the 'More about the worlds' button

then

Pronunciation Button

then

Honoured Enemy Button

You will find pronunciation information for most of the names within the 
book. Many thanks to Ray for the time he spent providing this 
information

best

-- 
John

john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.

Raymond E Feist Ring
http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm



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Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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From: "Sonia Tabe" <sonia@nt-tech.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
References: <200107271613.f6RGD6a22280@smtp3.san.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Fan Art
Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2001 13:53:03 +0930
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*** EOOH ***
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: "Sonia Tabe" <sonia@nt-tech.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Fan Art
Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2001 13:53:03 +0930
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Go figure. The cover for that I saw at crydee.com made Arutha look evil to
me. I suppose though it would look different if I actually got to see that
cover version. I can't remember what was the cover for the Silverthorn that
I read, but it definately wasn't Arutha.

Sonia
~Est Sularis Oth Mithas~



----- Original Message -----
>From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
>To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
>Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2001 1:42 AM
>Subject: Re: Fan Art
>
> The only image of Arutha I've ever seen was the one Don Maitz did for
> the cover of Silverthorn.
>
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
>
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
> stupidity.
>


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From: John <john@crydee.com>
Subject: Re: Fan Art
References: <200107271613.f6RGD6a22280@smtp3.san.rr.com>
 <005901c1171d$00b2e8e0$4785fea9@Sonia>
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Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2001 06:16:27 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: John <john@crydee.com>
Subject: Re: Fan Art
User-Agent: Turnpike/6.00-Beta-6-U (<x5sqXV$6+zj$GDJXMMY4QwhIW3>)
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Sonia Tabe <sonia@nt-tech.com.au> writes
>Go figure. The cover for that I saw at crydee.com made Arutha look evil to
>me. I suppose though it would look different if I actually got to see that
>cover version. I can't remember what was the cover for the Silverthorn that
>I read, but it definately wasn't Arutha.
>
>Sonia
>~Est Sularis Oth Mithas~
>
>

The cover's you are likely to have seen are the Following

US HB

Kinuko Kraft, Anita laying with arrow in her
Don Maitz, Arutha and Anita ( As you said Arutha looked evil)

US PB
Kevin Johnson. Jimmy going after Silverthorn

UK/OZ
Geoff Taylor, Soldiers on horse travelling across the plain

Hope this helps
-- 
John

john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.

Raymond E Feist Ring
http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm



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Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
X-PH: V4.1@cornell.edu (Cornell Modified) 
From: "Sonia Tabe" <sonia@nt-tech.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
References: <200107271613.f6RGD6a22280@smtp3.san.rr.com><005901c1171d$00b2e8e0$4785fea9@Sonia> <s9CxG5CrqkY7EwS3@cableinet.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Fan Art
Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2001 15:21:58 +0930
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*** EOOH ***
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: "Sonia Tabe" <sonia@nt-tech.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Fan Art
Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2001 15:21:58 +0930
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Yeah, thanks John. It was the last one. 

> UK/OZ
> Geoff Taylor, Soldiers on horse travelling across the plain

Thank you,
Sonia.
~Est Sularis Oth Mithas~



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From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: dear Joy
In-Reply-To: <001a01c115dd$581aed80$65313c04@vz.dsl.genuity.net>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2001 17:14:34 +1000 (GMT+1000)
From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: dear Joy
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Hmm i was just sent the Dear_Joy virus from someone I suspect is off this
list...


Anyone else get it?

Thanks
Darragh
-=-=
www.iamtheporkfireman.com
[Email]: s356179@student.uq.edu.au [ICQ]: 114283262



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From: "niko korhonen" <biisoni@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: and so the story goes wildly OT
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From: "niko korhonen" <biisoni@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: and so the story goes wildly OT
Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2001 07:29:35 +0000
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>From: "Earl Borah" <earl@ncn.com>
> > The record companies should wake up from their dreams
> > and start to realize that internet is something they
> > can use to help increase their sales. They just keep
> > fighting against Napster and other 'boogiemen' instead
> > of trying to find ways to distribute(sp?) the music
> > legally via internet.
>
>
>Actually, they're doing both. Besides the deal with Napster to create
>a fee-based service, there are plan from Real to offer a music
>service, and Microsoft is making some noise in that area as well.
>
and it's about time :)

>But why would you pay for the music company's version of the song,
>when you can get it for free somewhere else? The illegal services
>need to be either shut down, or hassled enough that they become
>difficult to use, before the pay services are likely to do much.

Yes, that was part of my point, thought once again I failed
to express myself clearly :). They should indeed close down
all the illegal services, but what the record companies should
(and hopefully have) realize(d), is that Mp3's are here to stay,
cause there is a big bunch of people out there who want to get their music 
that way, via internet. Instead of that, it seems to me that
the record companies have a pretty poor logic in this mess. They seem
to think that if they close down Napster and all the clones (Gnutella,
Morpheus etc.) people will just say 'Oh, what the heck' and start
to buy cd's again. But it's not they way it's going to be.
>
>Add to that the issues regarding copy protection (how do you make it
>difficult for people to rip off your music when you post it online
>and allow them to download it to their own computer, without making
>it difficult for the honest people to listen to it without a lot of
>hassle), and you have some tough issues to address.
>
I'll just stick around and wait for the first LEAGAL and CHEAP
Mp3 service that'll offer some QUALITY music. I have a feeling
it will be a long time. ;)
>---
>   "All men are moral. Only their neighbors are not."
>   - character from a John Steinbeck novel (I forget which character/novel)
>

Nice quote. Very true. :)

Niko Korhonen
biisoni@hotmail.com


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp



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From: "Paul Whitby" <pjwhitby@lineone.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
References: <Pine.OSF.4.30.0107281714070.23980-100000@student.uq.edu.au>
Subject: Re: dear Joy
Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2001 08:41:44 +0100
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Paul Whitby" <pjwhitby@lineone.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: dear Joy
Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2001 08:41:44 +0100
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

No, not yet. Lets hope that the list members have the sense <g> not to send
it.

going to get my copy of Honoured Enemy today !!!!!!!

anyone that wants a copy I will send them one if they cover the costs of
shipping (and of course the cost of the book)

Paul

----- Original Message -----
From: "Darragh Murray" <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2001 8:14 AM
Subject: dear Joy


> Hmm i was just sent the Dear_Joy virus from someone I suspect is off this
> list...
>
>
> Anyone else get it?
>
> Thanks
> Darragh
> -=-=
> www.iamtheporkfireman.com
> [Email]: s356179@student.uq.edu.au [ICQ]: 114283262
>
>



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From: "A Irving" <aignome@dingoblue.net.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
References: <Pine.OSF.4.30.0107281714070.23980-100000@student.uq.edu.au>
Subject: Re: dear Joy
Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2001 17:50:21 +1000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "A Irving" <aignome@dingoblue.net.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: dear Joy
Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2001 17:50:21 +1000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

No, did you look in the header info and find the real sender, what were the
details? (UQ normally stops most of the common virus attachments and I
suppose Cornell would stop a few aswell.) see you at 8 darragh.
CIAO,
           Aaron

http://www.hallofworlds.net/kerr/main.php
http://www.nightshadow.co.uk
----- Original Message -----
From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2001 5:14 PM
Subject: dear Joy


> Hmm i was just sent the Dear_Joy virus from someone I suspect is off this
> list...
>
>
> Anyone else get it?
>
> Thanks
> Darragh
> -=-=
> www.iamtheporkfireman.com
> [Email]: s356179@student.uq.edu.au [ICQ]: 114283262
>



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References: <Pine.OSF.4.30.0107281714070.23980-100000@student.uq.edu.au> <003d01c11738$c0446600$49487bd5@krondor>
Subject: Honoured Enemy
Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2001 18:11:28 +1000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "A Irving" <aignome@dingoblue.net.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Honoured Enemy
Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2001 18:11:28 +1000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Has anyone seen it available in Australia yet? if so, where?
Thanks,
            Aaron
----- Original Message -----
From: Paul Whitby <pjwhitby@lineone.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2001 5:41 PM
Subject: Re: dear Joy


> No, not yet. Lets hope that the list members have the sense <g> not to send
> it.
>
> going to get my copy of Honoured Enemy today !!!!!!!
>
> anyone that wants a copy I will send them one if they cover the costs of
> shipping (and of course the cost of the book)
>
> Paul
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Darragh Murray" <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
> To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2001 8:14 AM
> Subject: dear Joy
>
>
> > Hmm i was just sent the Dear_Joy virus from someone I suspect is off this
> > list...
> >
> >
> > Anyone else get it?
> >
> > Thanks
> > Darragh
> > -=-=
> > www.iamtheporkfireman.com
> > [Email]: s356179@student.uq.edu.au [ICQ]: 114283262
> >
> >
>



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2001 18:11:18 +1000
From: "Jason Mulligan" <sulimo@bigpond.net.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: and so the story goes wildly OT
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

On 28/07/2001 at 7:29 AM niko korhonen wrote:

>>From: "Earl Borah" <earl@ncn.com>
>> > The record companies should wake up from their dreams
>> > and start to realize that internet is something they
>> > can use to help increase their sales. They just keep
>> > fighting against Napster and other 'boogiemen' instead
>> > of trying to find ways to distribute(sp?) the music
>> > legally via internet.
>>
>>
>>Actually, they're doing both. Besides the deal with Napster to create
>>a fee-based service, there are plan from Real to offer a music
>>service, and Microsoft is making some noise in that area as well.
>>
>and it's about time :)
>
>>But why would you pay for the music company's version of the song,
>>when you can get it for free somewhere else? The illegal services
>>need to be either shut down, or hassled enough that they become
>>difficult to use, before the pay services are likely to do much.
>
>Yes, that was part of my point, thought once again I failed
>to express myself clearly :). They should indeed close down
>all the illegal services, but what the record companies should
>(and hopefully have) realize(d), is that Mp3's are here to stay,
>cause there is a big bunch of people out there who want to get their music 
>that way, via internet. Instead of that, it seems to me that
>the record companies have a pretty poor logic in this mess. They seem
>to think that if they close down Napster and all the clones (Gnutella,
>Morpheus etc.) people will just say 'Oh, what the heck' and start
>to buy cd's again. But it's not they way it's going to be.

Of course if they wanted to play hardball, they could stop putting stuff out on 
CD and jump to a new format.

>I'll just stick around and wait for the first LEAGAL and CHEAP
>Mp3 service that'll offer some QUALITY music. I have a feeling
>it will be a long time. ;)

Personally, I'm waiting for either SACD (preferred) or DVD-A to get real support so that 
players are a bit cheaper and there is a decent title selection.





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Subject: Re: dear Joy
Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2001 08:36:49 -0700
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Jason Martin" <res0b95g@verizon.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: dear Joy
Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2001 08:36:49 -0700
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Whitby" <pjwhitby@lineone.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2001 12:41 AM
Subject: Re: dear Joy


> No, not yet. Lets hope that the list members have the sense <g> not to send
> it.
>
> Paul

Having the sense not to send it doesn't matter.  It seems that most viruses
will replicate itself and send it and the person who had itdidn't even know
till after the fact.  I Know that happend with me a few months ago when I
got hit by a virus.  Didn't cause any damage, but it did send itself out
through my contact list before I really knew I had a virus...   What gets me
is the people that actually think you do this on purpose...

Jason





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Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2001 12:44:32 -0700
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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: Alan Kellogg <mythusmage@cts.com>
Subject: Re: dear Joy
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2001 12:44:32 -0700
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: Alan Kellogg <mythusmage@cts.com>
Subject: Re: dear Joy
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

>Hmm i was just sent the Dear_Joy virus from someone I suspect is off this
>list...
>
>
>Anyone else get it?
>
>Thanks
>Darragh

No, I keep getting an email titled, "Book1WARPATH" from one Charlotte 
Hensley. If Ms. Hensley is on this list, she needs to use an 
anti-virus app on her harddrive.

Alan
-- 
_______

Mythusmage.com, <http://www.mythusmage.com> at its new location!

mailto:mythusmage@mythusmage.com

ICQ: 103299329



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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: dear Joy
Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2001 15:45:16 -0500
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Look fellas I am not getting any of this stuff on my system.  In
fact the last virus I got sent to me was from a Prof. I know at
UNC-Wil, who merely has me in his e-mail address book though we
seldom correspond that way.  Check the path before assuming it was
someone on the list, often the path verification will tell you if it
came though Cornell's system faster than yelling about it here.

-James

----- Original Message -----
From: "Alan Kellogg" <mythusmage@cts.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2001 2:44 PM
Subject: Re: dear Joy


> >Hmm i was just sent the Dear_Joy virus from someone I suspect is off this
> >list...
> >
> >
> >Anyone else get it?
> >
> >Thanks
> >Darragh
>
> No, I keep getting an email titled, "Book1WARPATH" from one Charlotte
> Hensley. If Ms. Hensley is on this list, she needs to use an
> anti-virus app on her harddrive.
>
> Alan
> --
> _______
>
> Mythusmage.com, <http://www.mythusmage.com> at its new location!
>
> mailto:mythusmage@mythusmage.com
>
> ICQ: 103299329
>



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Subject: Re: pug's parents
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*** EOOH ***
From: Ninja200098@aol.com
Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2001 18:52:07 EDT
Subject: Re: pug's parents
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


I do recall it being mentioned in a book that pug's real parents were a 
common soldier and a barmaid or something, Marcos was explaining that he 
unlock something inside the child on impulse or some such, (man before i 
start responding i have to beef up on my Feist, I've been stuck on the wheel 
of time series.)

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Subject: Re: pug's parents
Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2001 17:23:42 -0700
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Jason Martin" <res0b95g@verizon.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: pug's parents
Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2001 17:23:42 -0700
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

How much longer is that Wheel of Time series suppose to go?  I quit
reading it after book 7 or 8 till he finishes it.  Then I'll sit down
and reread that whole damn series.  What is Ironic is I first started
book 1 my freshman year of H.S. and now I'm 26 and have a family...
Come to think of it I've been reading Ray's work since I was 14, so I
bet Ray must be feeling a bit older now =)  

Jason

----- Original Message ----- 
>From: Ninja200098@aol.com 
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu 
>Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2001 3:52 PM
>Subject: Re: pug's parents
>
>
>
>I do recall it being mentioned in a book that pug's real parents were a 
>common soldier and a barmaid or something, Marcos was explaining that he 
>unlock something inside the child on impulse or some such, (man before i 
>start responding i have to beef up on my Feist, I've been stuck on the wheel 
>of time series.)

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Subject: Re: pug's parents
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*** EOOH ***
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: "Sonia Tabe" <sonia@nt-tech.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: pug's parents
Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2001 11:59:32 +0930
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: Jason Martin 
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu 
>Sent: Sunday, July 29, 2001 9:53 AM
>Subject: Re: pug's parents
>
>
>How much longer is that Wheel of Time series suppose to go?  I quit reading it after book 7 or 8 till he finishes it.  Then I'll sit down and reread that whole damn series.  What is Ironic is I first started book 1 my freshman year of H.S. and now I'm 26 and have a family...  Come to think of it I've been reading Ray's work since I was 14, so I bet Ray must be feeling a bit older now =)  
> 
>Jason
>
>----- Original Message ----- 
>>From: Ninja200098@aol.com 
>>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu 
>>Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2001 3:52 PM
>>Subject: Re: pug's parents
>>
>>
>>
>>I do recall it being mentioned in a book that pug's real parents were a 
>>common soldier and a barmaid or something, Marcos was explaining that he 
>>unlock something inside the child on impulse or some such, (man before i 
>>start responding i have to beef up on my Feist, I've been stuck on the wheel 
>>of time series.)

     
    I just thought that'd I'd mentioned there is a Wheel of Time
calender in my local bookshop. Too bad half the year's gone already!

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From: Terry Corbett <terrylc_69@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: pug's parents
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2001 19:49:13 -0700 (PDT)
From: Terry Corbett <terrylc_69@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: pug's parents
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

He's up to book 9 now....  It ended with a major
victory for the side of good, but not one that even
hinted at the series ending in the next book. :(  If
he has any sense, he will end it in the next book or
the one after, but I fear that he'll milk this for as
long as he can. :(  After that, I've heard a rumor
that he'll do some prequel books dealing with the Age
of Legends.

While I have read all 9, it's not out of love of the
series anymore.  I'm just determined to ride it out. 
I WILL see the Last Battle, dang it! :)  However, he's
lost a lot of fans who just got annoyed/bored with the
series.  It should have been done a LONG time ago.

Terry

--- Jason Martin <res0b95g@verizon.net> wrote:
> How much longer is that Wheel of Time series suppose
> to go?  I quit reading it after book 7 or 8 till he
> finishes it.  Then I'll sit down and reread that
> whole damn series.  What is Ironic is I first
> started book 1 my freshman year of H.S. and now I'm
> 26 and have a family...  Come to think of it I've
> been reading Ray's work since I was 14, so I bet Ray
> must be feeling a bit older now =)  
> 
> Jason
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
>   From: Ninja200098@aol.com 
>   To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu 
>   Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2001 3:52 PM
>   Subject: Re: pug's parents
> 
> 
> 
>   I do recall it being mentioned in a book that
> pug's real parents were a 
>   common soldier and a barmaid or something, Marcos
> was explaining that he 
>   unlock something inside the child on impulse or
> some such, (man before i 
>   start responding i have to beef up on my Feist,
> I've been stuck on the wheel 
>   of time series.)
> 
>    
> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger
http://phonecard.yahoo.com/



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Subject: Re: pug's parents
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Roberts" <jroberts6@vtown.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: pug's parents
Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2001 15:17:17 +1000
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The Light Burn You!!
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: Ninja200098@aol.com 
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu 
>Sent: Sunday, July 29, 2001 8:52 AM
>Subject: Re: pug's parents
>
>
>
>I do recall it being mentioned in a book that pug's real parents were a 
>common soldier and a barmaid or something, Marcos was explaining that he 
>unlock something inside the child on impulse or some such, (man before i 
>start responding i have to beef up on my Feist, I've been stuck on the wheel 
>of time series.) 

1,,
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Subject: Re: pug's parents
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Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2001 17:29:24 +1200
From: Rohan Smith <rsmith@free.net.nz>
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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: pug's parents
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

RJ keeps saying he will finish the series with another three books
but he's been saying that since book six or so.
still by all accounts he's currently aiming for 11 or 12 books in the series

I have to agree with your sentiment to ride the series i've invested far 
too much time in reading the damn thing too give up onn the series now

Terry Corbett wrote:

> He's up to book 9 now....  It ended with a major
> victory for the side of good, but not one that even
> hinted at the series ending in the next book. :(  If
> he has any sense, he will end it in the next book or
> the one after, but I fear that he'll milk this for as
> long as he can. :(  After that, I've heard a rumor
> that he'll do some prequel books dealing with the Age
> of Legends.
> 
> While I have read all 9, it's not out of love of the
> series anymore.  I'm just determined to ride it out. 
> I WILL see the Last Battle, dang it! :)  However, he's
> lost a lot of fans who just got annoyed/bored with the
> series.  It should have been done a LONG time ago.
> 
> Terry
> 
> --- Jason Martin <res0b95g@verizon.net> wrote:
> 
>> How much longer is that Wheel of Time series suppose
>> to go?  I quit reading it after book 7 or 8 till he
>> finishes it.  Then I'll sit down and reread that
>> whole damn series.  What is Ironic is I first
>> started book 1 my freshman year of H.S. and now I'm
>> 26 and have a family...  Come to think of it I've
>> been reading Ray's work since I was 14, so I bet Ray
>> must be feeling a bit older now =)  
>> 
>> Jason
>> 
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>   From: Ninja200098@aol.com 
>>   To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu 
>>   Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2001 3:52 PM
>>   Subject: Re: pug's parents
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>   I do recall it being mentioned in a book that
>> pug's real parents were a 
>>   common soldier and a barmaid or something, Marcos
>> was explaining that he 
>>   unlock something inside the child on impulse or
>> some such, (man before i 
>>   start responding i have to beef up on my Feist,
>> I've been stuck on the wheel 
>>   of time series.)
>> 
>>    
>> 
> 
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger
> http://phonecard.yahoo.com/
> 
> 
> 



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From: John <john@crydee.com>
Subject: OT WOT was pug's parents 
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 <3B639F34.5020309@free.net.nz>
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Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2001 08:34:16 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: John <john@crydee.com>
Subject: OT WOT was pug's parents 
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Rohan Smith <rsmith@free.net.nz> writes
>RJ keeps saying he will finish the series with another three books
>but he's been saying that since book six or so.
>still by all accounts he's currently aiming for 11 or 12 books in the series
>
If you think about it , it is fairly obvious Wheel is round, Time on a 
clock 12 hours or segments 12 books to go full circle

-- 
John

john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.

Raymond E Feist Ring
http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm



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Subject: Re: OT WOT was pug's parents 
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From: "Sonia Tabe" <sonia@nt-tech.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: OT WOT was pug's parents 
Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2001 22:41:21 +0930
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Oooh...! Clever, John =)



----- Original Message -----
From: John <john@crydee.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Sunday, July 29, 2001 5:04 PM
Subject: OT WOT was pug's parents


> Rohan Smith <rsmith@free.net.nz> writes
> >RJ keeps saying he will finish the series with another three books
> >but he's been saying that since book six or so.
> >still by all accounts he's currently aiming for 11 or 12 books in the series
> >
> If you think about it , it is fairly obvious Wheel is round, Time on a
> clock 12 hours or segments 12 books to go full circle
>
> --
> John
>
> john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
> http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.
>
> Raymond E Feist Ring
> http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm
>



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*** EOOH ***
From: IndianaJJr@aol.com
Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2001 10:43:46 EDT
Subject: Re: pug's parents
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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I am on A Darkness at Sethanon and I was wonderin when the wheel of time 
series fits in.
  
      Chance

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From: IndianaJJr@aol.com
Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2001 10:40:48 EDT
Subject: Re: pug's parents
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Does any one know when Conclade of shadows is supposed to come out i am 12 
and I just started his books in May.

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Subject: Re: pug's parents
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From: "Sonia Tabe" <sonia@nt-tech.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: pug's parents
Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2001 00:26:33 +0930
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

That series that people are talking about are actually by a different
author. I'm not sure who that is though. I'm sure someone would be
able to fill you it on it =)

>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: IndianaJJr@aol.com 
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu 
>Sent: Monday, July 30, 2001 12:13 AM
>Subject: Re: pug's parents
>
>
>I am on A Darkness at Sethanon and I was wonderin when the wheel of time 
>series fits in. 
>  
>     Chance 

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Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2001 11:08:23 EDT
Subject: Re: pug's parents
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oh thanks

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From: "William Marnoch" <william@wmarnoch.freeserve.co.uk>
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Subject: Re: OT WOT was pug's parents 
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*** EOOH ***
From: "William Marnoch" <william@wmarnoch.freeserve.co.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2001 16:58:09 +0100
Subject: Re: OT WOT was pug's parents 
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On 29 Jul 01, at 8:34, John wrote:

> Rohan Smith <rsmith@free.net.nz> writes
> >RJ keeps saying he will finish the series with another three books
> >but he's been saying that since book six or so.
> >still by all accounts he's currently aiming for 11 or 12 books in the
> >series
> >
> If you think about it , it is fairly obvious Wheel is round, Time on a
> clock 12 hours or segments 12 books to go full circle

The amount of progress in recent books suggests RJ might be 
using this idea but with a 24-hour clock instead ;)

> John


-- 
William Marnoch
william@wmarnoch.freeserve.co.uk
ICQ:77848483



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From: Andrea J Chee <andrea@bloodaxe.com>
Subject: Re: pug's parents
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 <004101c1183e$a9174cc0$4785fea9@Sonia>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2001 19:14:29 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: Andrea J Chee <andrea@bloodaxe.com>
Subject: Re: pug's parents
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In article <004101c1183e$a9174cc0$4785fea9@Sonia>, Sonia Tabe <sonia@nt-
tech.com.au> writes
>    That series that people are talking about are actually by a 
>    different author. I'm not sure who that is though. I'm sure someone 
>    would be able to fill you it on it =)

Robert Jordan is the author. I think I read the first 7 or so books
(which are thick paperbacks that take up about a foot-and-a-half of
bookshelf space and really take some reading), but they seem to have
been going on and on forever now and I'm running out of steam and
forgetting who many of the characters are.

- ANDREA

-- 
  Get PAID for the emails you already send and receive! 
http://www.mailround.com/  Referrer: andrea@bloodaxe.com
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Subject: OT WoT (was re: pug's parents)
Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2001 15:09:49 -0500
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: OT WoT (was re: pug's parents)
Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2001 15:09:49 -0500
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    I couldn't stomach the first three.  Too two-dimensional in the
way things were going as well as what I saw as a serious lack of
character development.  Same reason I didn't like Mists of Avalon.
The read like stock characters.  And RJ leaves way too many loose
ends that seem to serve very little purpose in the overall story
line.  It is why I vastly prefer REF and it is why I am on this
mailing list as opposed to RJ's.

-James
(irritated by the constant rebirth of WoT discussions on this list)

> >    That series that people are talking about are actually by a
> >    different author. I'm not sure who that is though. I'm sure someone
> >    would be able to fill you it on it =)
>
> Robert Jordan is the author. I think I read the first 7 or so books
> (which are thick paperbacks that take up about a foot-and-a-half of
> bookshelf space and really take some reading), but they seem to have
> been going on and on forever now and I'm running out of steam and
> forgetting who many of the characters are.
>
> - ANDREA
>



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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: Martin Andersen <fan2met@online.no>
Subject: Re: pug's parents
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2001 22:19:27 +0200
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: Martin Andersen <fan2met@online.no>
Subject: Re: pug's parents
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

There will be at least three more books, but, as someone mentioned, Mr. 
Jordan said three more books after book 7, then it was three more books 
after book 8, and now it is three more books after book 9.

Martin
----------
Si libet, licet.

At 17:23 28.07.01 -0700, you wrote:
>How much longer is that Wheel of Time series suppose to go?  I quit 
>reading it after book 7 or 8 till he finishes it.  Then I'll sit down and 
>reread that whole damn series.  What is Ironic is I first started book 1 
>my freshman year of H.S. and now I'm 26 and have a family...  Come to 
>think of it I've been reading Ray's work since I was 14, so I bet Ray must 
>be feeling a bit older now =)
>
>Jason
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <mailto:Ninja200098@aol.com>Ninja200098@aol.com
>To: <mailto:FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2001 3:52 PM
>Subject: Re: pug's parents
>
>I do recall it being mentioned in a book that pug's real parents were a
>common soldier and a barmaid or something, Marcos was explaining that he
>unlock something inside the child on impulse or some such, (man before i
>start responding i have to beef up on my Feist, I've been stuck on the wheel
>of time series.)
>
>

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From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Feistfan Webpages
Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2001 15:38:53 -0500
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Feistfan Webpages
Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2001 15:38:53 -0500
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Hey folks,
    I was just browsing the websites that many of us have put up,
and what I first and foremost noticed is that outside of the webring
itself, those sites listed are coming up 404 a lot of the time, like
50% of the ones I clicked were obsolete.  A large number of the
others are coming up two and three years out of date.  I am curious
to know when people are going to start either updating sites or
removing links those sites.
    There was a discussion not long ago on webspace and websites,
and I am curious to see if anything will come of it as well.

James A. J. Young
jajy@earthlink.net
http://home.earthlink.net/~jajy/



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From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
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Subject: Re: OT WOT was pug's parents 
Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2001 15:45:56 -0500
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: OT WOT was pug's parents 
Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2001 15:45:56 -0500
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

    Yeah but a clock is 360` divided into 720 minutes.  He could
make the case for a lot more than twelve books.  I shudder to think
of how much more garbage I will have to be given every Christmas
because people keep giving me his books.  I threw a fit last year,
after telling my parents flat out I wanted the latest REF book they
decided to get me two RJ books instead, I wasn't a happy camper to
say the least over that issue.

/end personal rant

-James

----- Original Message -----
> If you think about it , it is fairly obvious Wheel is round, Time on a
> clock 12 hours or segments 12 books to go full circle
>
> --
> John



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Subject: Re: OT WOT was pug's parents 
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Barker" <heechee@softhome.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: OT WOT was pug's parents 
Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2001 07:16:02 +1000
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----- Original Message -----
From: James Young <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Monday, July 30, 2001 6:45 AM
Subject: Re: OT WOT was pug's parents


>     Yeah but a clock is 360` divided into 720 minutes.  He could
> make the case for a lot more than twelve books.  I shudder to think
> of how much more garbage I will have to be given every Christmas
> because people keep giving me his books.  I threw a fit last year,
> after telling my parents flat out I wanted the latest REF book they
> decided to get me two RJ books instead, I wasn't a happy camper to
> say the least over that issue.
>
> /end personal rant

Ha, at least your parents actually try and keep up with your reading. My
parents just give me book vouchers, saying, "We have no idea what you're
reading, so go spend this." :)

Still, the last time they picked a book for me, they chose the Gormenghast
trilogy (which I hadn't heard of until then), which shows that they aren't
that bad after all. :)

Cheers,
James "Filial Gratitude" Barker
-------------------------------------------------------
"Don't worry if I fall, my pro is bomber"



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From: "Julie Wootten" <wootten@xtra.co.nz>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
References: <20010729024913.95918.qmail@web12701.mail.yahoo.com> <3B639F34.5020309@free.net.nz> <qSmANMD4x7Y7EwBw@crydee.com> <006d01c1186f$78341440$a042fc9e@oemcomputer> <001b01c11873$af59fb20$571e3acb@heechee>
Subject: Re: OT WOT was pug's parents 
Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2001 09:27:48 +1200
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Julie Wootten" <wootten@xtra.co.nz>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: OT WOT was pug's parents 
Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2001 09:27:48 +1200
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

> > I threw a fit last year,
> > after telling my parents flat out I wanted the latest REF book they
> > decided to get me two RJ books instead, I wasn't a happy camper to
> > say the least over that issue.
> >
> > /end personal rant
>
> Ha, at least your parents actually try and keep up with your reading. My
> parents just give me book vouchers, saying, "We have no idea what you're
> reading, so go spend this." :)

My  mother has a tendancy to buy books for other people that SHE wants
to read.  At least our taste overlaps a little.

And she's a dear old soul, really.  When I heard there was a 50% sale at
a bookstore chain, I sent her along to the biggest one with a list of books
to
buy for me ;-)   (It almost makes up for her never once making my
school lunches.  Almost.)

Julie.



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References: <20010729024913.95918.qmail@web12701.mail.yahoo.com> <3B639F34.5020309@free.net.nz> <qSmANMD4x7Y7EwBw@crydee.com> <006d01c1186f$78341440$a042fc9e@oemcomputer> <001b01c11873$af59fb20$571e3acb@heechee> <006d01c11875$5175cf00$682f37d2@oemcomputer>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2001 16:00:46 -0700
From: Carl Dershem <dershem@home.com>
Organization: Project Selene
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: OT WOT was pug's parents
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Julie Wootten wrote:
> 
> > > I threw a fit last year,
> > > after telling my parents flat out I wanted the latest REF book they
> > > decided to get me two RJ books instead, I wasn't a happy camper to
> > > say the least over that issue.
> > >
> > Ha, at least your parents actually try and keep up with your reading. My
> > parents just give me book vouchers, saying, "We have no idea what you're
> > reading, so go spend this." :)
> 
> My  mother has a tendancy to buy books for other people that SHE wants
> to read.  At least our taste overlaps a little.
> 
> And she's a dear old soul, really.  When I heard there was a 50% sale at
> a bookstore chain, I sent her along to the biggest one with a list of books
> to
> buy for me ;-)  

My family nows better than to try and buy a book I want before I get to
it - bookstore Gift Certificates are always welcome here, with the
result that I generally get upwards of $200 in them every holiday
season.

And, of course, I get the added benefit of knowing that if *they* go
into the bookstore, they'll also buy something for themselves, so
everyone gets a book they want.  What could be better than that?

cd



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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Message-ID: <CA256A98.0082A627.00@mailgate.allegiance.com.au>
Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2001 09:48:18 +1000
Subject: Re: Honoured Enemy
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*** EOOH ***
From: Brad_A_Krahe@allegiance.com.au
X-Lotus-FromDomain: HCS
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2001 09:48:18 +1000
Subject: Re: Honoured Enemy
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Borders in Melbourne say they'll have it in a week, but I'am not to sure I
believe them. A month is more likely!

Regards,

Brad Krahe
SAP Business & Support Consultant
Allegiance Systems




"A Irving" <aignome@dingoblue.net.au> on 28/07/2001 18:11:28

Please respond to FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

>To:   FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>cc:    (bcc: Brad A Krahe/HCS)
>Subject:  Honoured Enemy
>
>
>
>
>Has anyone seen it available in Australia yet? if so, where?
>Thanks,
>	     Aaron
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Paul Whitby <pjwhitby@lineone.net>
>To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
>Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2001 5:41 PM
>Subject: Re: dear Joy
>
>
>> No, not yet. Lets hope that the list members have the sense <g> not to send
>> it.
>>
>> going to get my copy of Honoured Enemy today !!!!!!!
>>
>> anyone that wants a copy I will send them one if they cover the costs of
>> shipping (and of course the cost of the book)
>>
>> Paul
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Darragh Murray" <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
>> To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
>> Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2001 8:14 AM
>> Subject: dear Joy
>>
>>
>> > Hmm i was just sent the Dear_Joy virus from someone I suspect is off this
>> > list...
>> >
>> >
>> > Anyone else get it?
>> >
>> > Thanks
>> > Darragh
>> > -=-=
>> > www.iamtheporkfireman.com
>> > [Email]: s356179@student.uq.edu.au [ICQ]: 114283262
>> >
>> >
>>
>







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From: "Diamond Joe" <diamondjoesmith@yahoo.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: pug's parents
Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2001 19:12:05 -0500
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From: "Diamond Joe" <diamondjoesmith@yahoo.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: pug's parents
Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2001 19:12:05 -0500
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From what I've heard, the Publisher (TOR Fantasy) has told him to wrap it up
by book 12. I don't know what they'll do if he doesn't, but that's what
they've said.

Joseph A. Smith

>  There will be at least three more books, but, as someone mentioned, Mr.
>Jordan said three more books after book 7, then it was three more books
>after book 8, and now it is three more books after book 9.
>
>  Martin
>  ----------
>  Si libet, licet.
>
>  At 17:23 28.07.01 -0700, you wrote:
>
>>    How much longer is that Wheel of Time series suppose to go?  I quit
>>reading it after book 7 or 8 till he finishes it.  Then I'll sit down and
>>reread that whole damn series.  What is Ironic is I first started book 1 my
>>freshman year of H.S. and now I'm 26 and have a family...  Come to think of
>>it I've been reading Ray's work since I was 14, so I bet Ray must be feeling
>>a bit older now =)
>>
>>    Jason

_________________________________________________________
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From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
References: <20010729024913.95918.qmail@web12701.mail.yahoo.com> <3B639F34.5020309@free.net.nz> <qSmANMD4x7Y7EwBw@crydee.com> <006d01c1186f$78341440$a042fc9e@oemcomputer> <001b01c11873$af59fb20$571e3acb@heechee>
Subject: Re: OT WOT was pug's parents 
Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2001 19:41:26 -0500
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: OT WOT was pug's parents 
Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2001 19:41:26 -0500
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From: "James Barker"

> Ha, at least your parents actually try and keep up with your reading. My
> parents just give me book vouchers, saying, "We have no idea what you're
> reading, so go spend this." :)
>
> Still, the last time they picked a book for me, they chose the Gormenghast
> trilogy (which I hadn't heard of until then), which shows that they aren't
> that bad after all. :)

From: "Julie Wootten"

> My  mother has a tendency to buy books for other people that SHE wants
> to read.  At least our taste overlaps a little.
>
> And she's a dear old soul, really.  When I heard there was a 50% sale at
> a bookstore chain, I sent her along to the biggest one with a list of books
> to
> buy for me ;-)   (It almost makes up for her never once making my
> school lunches.  Almost.)

    Ack, I hand them a detailed list of books I am looking for every
single year and have told them I will not purchase any of them until
after the Christmas holiday (we celebrate all 12 days of it as a
family tradition so they have time to get everything on sale the day
after).  And even with a detailed list of books they managed to miss
getting me every single one.  The only person who got anything right
was my little brother who picked me up two of the three Asprin books
I don't own.
    I wish they would give me certificates but no luck there.  Could
be worse though, some of my relatives are also inclined to give
reading material based on what they think you should read, not what
you want to read.  So I can spare a little sympathy for the
occasional plight Julie might find herself in.

-James



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Subject: Re: pug's parents
Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2001 19:46:12 -0700
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*** EOOH ***
From: kuros@pgtv.net (kuros)
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: pug's parents
Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2001 19:46:12 -0700
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I like RJ's books pretty well (though not nearly as good as REF's),
but they suffer from the same problem as Melanie Rawn's books
do. There's so much stuff in them, in terms of characters, places,
etc, that you have to devote an inordinate amount of concentration to
remember them and keep the storyline straight. At least M(r)s. Rawn
keeps it in trilogies (though the Dragon Star and Dragon Prince
trilogy were in the same setting), so its not -too- terribly difficult
to remeber it all. RJ has created so many characters and places and
such, I can't keep them straight for very long. I'll probably read the
entire WoT series though, cause I refuse to throw away the hours upon
hours I spent reading the series so far. =)

Kuros
----- Original Message ----- 
>  From: Diamond Joe 
>  To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu 
>  Sent: Sunday, July 29, 2001 5:12 PM
>  Subject: RE: pug's parents
>
>
>  From what I've heard, the Publisher (TOR Fantasy) has told him to wrap it up by book 12. I don't know what they'll do if he doesn't, but that's what they've said.
>
>  Joseph A. Smith

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I thought I would just like to report that while I was
on holidays for 2 weeks after returning I checked my
inbox and found 651 messages too read!!!!!! very tiring.

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From: Terry Corbett <terrylc_69@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: OT WoT (was re: pug's parents)
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2001 09:41:33 -0700 (PDT)
From: Terry Corbett <terrylc_69@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: OT WoT (was re: pug's parents)
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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 I agree that he leaves too much loose ends, but I have noticed that
he does eventually pick up those loose ends in later books.
Terry
  James Young <jajy@earthlink.net> wrote:
> I couldn't stomach the first three. Too two-dimensional in the
>way things were going as well as what I saw as a serious lack of
>character development. Same reason I didn't like Mists of Avalon.
>The read like stock characters. And RJ leaves way too many loose
>ends that seem to serve very little purpose in the overall story
>line. It is why I vastly prefer REF and it is why I am on this
>mailing list as opposed to RJ's.
>
>-James
>(irritated by the constant rebirth of WoT discussions on this list)
>
>> > That series that people are talking about are actually by a
>> > different author. I'm not sure who that is though. I'm sure someone
>> > would be able to fill you it on it =)
>>
>> Robert Jordan is the author. I think I read the first 7 or so books
>> (which are thick paperbacks that take up about a foot-and-a-half of
>> bookshelf space and really take some reading), but they seem to have
>> been going on and on forever now and I'm running out of steam and
>> forgetting who many of the characters are.
>>
>> - ANDREA
>>
>


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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2001 09:53:57 -0700 (PDT)
From: Terry Corbett <terrylc_69@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: OT WoT was pug's parents
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And don't forget the amount of money you've invested in that series.
I've gotten at least 2 of the WoT books in hardback so far and will
probably end up getting the "last 3" in hardback as well.  While I
don't really mind buying hardbacks, my father (and my bank account :))
don't agree.  That's why I'm going to wait until I've finished the
Riftwar Saga, the Serpentwar Saga, the Empire Trilogy, Prince of the
Blood, The King's Buccaneer, the first 2 Riftwar Legacy books, and
maybe even Faerie Tale before I get Tear of the Gods. :)  Hopefully by
then, it will be in paperback. :)  The less hardbacks I get, the more
books I can afford. :)
Terry
>  kuros <kuros@pgtv.net> wrote: I like RJ's books pretty well (though not nearly as good as REF's), but they suffer from the same problem as Melanie Rawn's books do. There's so much stuff in them, in terms of characters, places, etc, that you have to devote an inordinate amount of concentration to remember them and keep the storyline straight. At least M(r)s. Rawn keeps it in trilogies (though the Dragon Star and Dragon Prince trilogy were in the same setting), so its not -too- terribly difficult to remeber it all. RJ has created so many characters and places and such, I can't keep them straight for very long. I'll probably read the entire WoT series though, cause I refuse to throw away the hours upon hours I spent reading the series so far. =) Kuros----- Original Message ----- From: Diamond Joe To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu Sent: Sunday, July 29, 2001 5:12 PMSubject: RE: pug's parents
>>From what I've heard, the Publisher (TOR Fantasy) has told him to wrap it up by book 12. I don't know what they'll do if he doesn't, but that's what they've said. Joseph A. Smith There will be at least three more books, but, as someone mentioned, Mr. Jordan said three more books after book 7, then it was three more books after book 8, and now it is three more books after book 9.
>
>Martin
>----------
>Si libet, licet.
>
>At 17:23 28.07.01 -0700, you wrote:
>How much longer is that Wheel of Time series suppose to go?  I quit reading it after book 7 or 8 till he finishes it.  Then I'll sit down and reread that whole damn series.  What is Ironic is I first started book 1 my freshman year of H.S. and now I'm 26 and have a family...  Come to think of it I've been reading Ray's work since I was 14, so I bet Ray must be feeling a bit older now =)  
> 
>Jason
>
>
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From: Terry Corbett <terrylc_69@yahoo.com>
Subject: American Release Dates
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2001 09:56:43 -0700 (PDT)
From: Terry Corbett <terrylc_69@yahoo.com>
Subject: American Release Dates
To: Feist Fan <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
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Does anyone know when The Crawler, the Dark Mage, Honored Ememy, and
Talon of the Silver Hawk will be released in America?  Also, does
anyone know when Tear of the Gods will be released in paperback in
America?

Terry



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Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2001 18:16:12 +0100
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Terry Corbett <terrylc_69@yahoo.com> writes
>Does anyone know when The Crawler, the Dark Mage,

When Ray writes them

>Honored Ememy,
Maybe never

>and Talon of the Silver Hawk will be released in America? 

Hopefully when its finished
> Also, does
>anyone know when Tear of the Gods will be released in paperback in
>America?
Amazon might give a clue, but I doubt that far off
-- 
John

john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.

Raymond E Feist Ring
http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm



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From: "Michael Gibson" <gibfish@gibbyco.freeserve.co.uk>
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Subject: OT: WoT (was re: pug's parents)
Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2001 18:22:07 +0100
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> Terry Corbett Wrote:
>
> I agree that he leaves too much loose ends, but I have noticed
> that he does eventually pick up those loose ends in later books.
>  Terry

I find the problem with this is that you are left wondering who? What? When? too
many times.  I agree that a book should make you think, as that way the author
can pack more imagery into the text, but if you're like me and don't own the
books, you get holes when you can't honestly remember for example if (s)he is a
dark friend, etc.  What makes it worse is the gap between the books - I was able
to read the first eight books (all in paperback by this time), and still have to
wait eight months for the next one. grr ;)  And then there are some books in the
series where everyone seems to be angry or misguided about someone else, but
nothing much happens.  I not saying they're not good yarn - hell, I've read all
nine, but it's time he picked up the pace.

Mike,
Gibfish of the West.
                                          Check out my forums at:
"If a problem appears simple, then it     http://www.tonrae.co.uk/forums/
probably hasn't been thought through."

<snip>



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At 06:16 PM 7/30/01 +0100, you wrote:

>>Honored Ememy,
>Maybe never

I'm a little confused about why.  Does his American publisher not want to 
release this in the U.S.?



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2001 11:22:57 -0700 (PDT)
From: Terry Corbett <terrylc_69@yahoo.com>
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 I didn't realize that The Crawler and The Dark Mage hadn't been
written yet.  I only asked because I saw them listed on your site,
John.  Same with Talon of the Silver Hawk.  But what's the deal with
Honored Enemy?
Terry
  John <john@crydee.com> wrote:
>Terry Corbett writes
>>Does anyone know when The Crawler, the Dark Mage,
>
>When Ray writes them
>
>>Honored Ememy,
>Maybe never
>
>>and Talon of the Silver Hawk will be released in America? 
>
>Hopefully when its finished
>> Also, does
>>anyone know when Tear of the Gods will be released in paperback in
>>America?
>Amazon might give a clue, but I doubt that far off
>-- 
>John
>
>john@crydee.com Books to read, and shelves to fill,
>http://www.crydee.com/ Ray's great books, just fit the bill.
>
>Raymond E Feist Ring
>http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm
>


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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2001 19:34:47 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: John <john@crydee.com>
Subject: Re: American Release Dates
User-Agent: Turnpike/6.00-Beta-6-U (<x5sqXV$6+zj$GDJXMMY4QwhIW3>)
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Terry Corbett <terrylc_69@yahoo.com> writes
>
> I didn't realize that The Crawler and The Dark Mage hadn't been written
>yet.  I only asked because I saw them listed on your site, John.  Same
>with Talon of the Silver Hawk. 
Any in red are not as yet released, and in some cases not even written

> But what's the deal with Honored Enemy?
>
This has been covered recently on this list ands in the newsgroup. 
Basically it comes down to the fact that Ray has yet to reach acceptable 
terms with a publisher
-- 
John

john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.

Raymond E Feist Ring
http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2001 11:37:08 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: American Release Dates
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On Monday, July 30, 2001, at 09:56 AM, Terry Corbett wrote:

> Does anyone know when The Crawler, the Dark Mage, Honored Ememy, and 
> Talon of the Silver Hawk will be released in America?  Also, does 
> anyone know when Tear of the Gods will be released in paperback in 
> America?
>
>


Crawler and Dark Mage are the last two in the Legacy series, and I have 
no contracts for those, yet.  Probably get them written in the next four 
years.

Honored Enemy will not be released in the US any time soon, due to 
contractual issues.

Talon will be released in the US in March of 2003.

Tear will be in paperback next March.

Best, R.E.F.

----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.

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Subject: Re: American Release Dates
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: American Release Dates
Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2001 15:36:46 -0500
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Dumb question (I.e. I am sure someone answered this already but I
don't remember the answer):  Is it going to be US after UK for Talon
as it seems to have been going recently?




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    Just a few quick questions.  When you say 'US' does that mean Canada as
well?  With Honoured Enemy for example, will it be available in Canada any
time soon?  Also speaking of Canada, Mr. Feist have you ever been here on
any book signings (sp?) in the past?
    Thanks for your time,

Rob Kolech

> Terry Corbett <terrylc_69@yahoo.com> writes
> >
> > I didn't realize that The Crawler and The Dark Mage hadn't been written
> >yet. I only asked because I saw them listed on your site, John. Same
> >with Talon of the Silver Hawk.
> Any in red are not as yet released, and in some cases not even written
>
> > But what's the deal with Honored Enemy?
> >
> This has been covered recently on this list ands in the newsgroup.
> Basically it comes down to the fact that Ray has yet to reach acceptable
> terms with a publisher
> --
> John
>
> john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
> http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.
>
> Raymond E Feist Ring
> http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm
>
>



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2001 18:12:10 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
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On Monday, July 30, 2001, at 01:21 PM, Rob Kolech wrote:

>     Just a few quick questions.  When you say 'US' does that mean 
> Canada as
> well?  With Honoured Enemy for example, will it be available in Canada 
> any
> time soon?  Also speaking of Canada, Mr. Feist have you ever been here 
> on
> any book signings (sp?) in the past?
>     Thanks for your time,

US means Canada, in terms of who gets the market.  It's a "North 
American" publishing deal.

I've been to Toronto and Ottawa.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Wow I just joined but is that really Raymond E. Feist who answered cause if 
so that is awsome.

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To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: American Release Dates
Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2001 21:03:20 -0600
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Yep...thats him!!

Welcome to the list. 

But please read the FAQ before you type one more letter, so that none
of the ill tempered old timers decide to eat you alive!!! LOL

http://www.psihawk.com/feist/

Raine
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: IndianaJJr@aol.com 
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu 
>Sent: Monday, July 30, 2001 8:06 PM
>Subject: Re: American Release Dates
>
>
>Wow I just joined but is that really Raymond E. Feist who answered cause if 
>so that is awsome. 

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From: Allan Mills <milla@css.com.au>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: American Release Dates
Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 12:56:48 +1000
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*** EOOH ***
From: Allan Mills <milla@css.com.au>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: American Release Dates
Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 12:56:48 +1000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

 Shh, that's Bob. He has multiple personality disorder. We find it's best
not to acknowledge him, it just stirs him up. :)
 
 Just kidding, he's the real deal.
 
 Allan

-----Original Message-----
>From: IndianaJJr@aol.com [mailto:IndianaJJr@aol.com]
>Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2001 12:06 PM
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: Re: American Release Dates
>
>
>Wow I just joined but is that really Raymond E. Feist who answered cause if 
>so that is awsome. 

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Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2001 23:14:45 EDT
Subject: Re: American Release Dates
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*** EOOH ***
From: IndianaJJr@aol.com
Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2001 23:14:45 EDT
Subject: Re: American Release Dates
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

That kicks @$$

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*** EOOH ***
From: IndianaJJr@aol.com
Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2001 23:24:52 EDT
Subject: (no subject)
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Hey I just read the FAQ or whatever and it says something about movies and I 
was just thinking that it would be so tight if they made one of like the 
riftwar series or the serpentwar saga cause it would be to much to make all 
the books. And if they can make a Lord of the Rings movie then Raymond's 
books would make a cool movie cause its a hundred times better then the 
hobbit or lord of the rings. And I have read all of lord of the rings even 
though I am 12. And now I will stop with my opinions sorry to waste our time.

                       -Chance-

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*** EOOH ***
From: Allan Mills <milla@css.com.au>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: (no subject)
Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 13:32:35 +1000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

 The movie topic has been churned around on this list many times. Unless
someone fronts up with the money it won't ever happen. It would probably
also require fantasy films to become very popular. Making Lord of the Rings
is less of a risk because even people who don't like fantasy have usually
heard of it. Hollywood in general seems to frown up fantasy and sci-fi. Try
counting all of the great movies that Spielburg has made and divide it by
the number of Oscars he's received.
 
 BTW, please try not to start so many sentences with the word "and". It's
bad grammar and makes your message harder to read.
 
 Allan

-----Original Message-----
>From: IndianaJJr@aol.com [mailto:IndianaJJr@aol.com]
>Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2001 1:25 PM
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: (no subject)
>
>
>Hey I just read the FAQ or whatever and it says something about movies and I
>was just thinking that it would be so tight if they made one of like the 
>riftwar series or the serpentwar saga cause it would be to much to make all 
>the books. And if they can make a Lord of the Rings movie then Raymond's 
>books would make a cool movie cause its a hundred times better then the 
>hobbit or lord of the rings. And I have read all of lord of the rings even 
>though I am 12. And now I will stop with my opinions sorry to waste our
>time. 
>
>		       -Chance- 
>

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Subject: Re: American Release Dates
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From: IndianaJJr@aol.com
Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2001 23:41:45 EDT
Subject: Re: American Release Dates
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I read the FAQ most freaquently asked questions (not all of them but 90%) and 
i didn't see this question but wich is R.E.F's favorite character

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From: IndianaJJr@aol.com
Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2001 23:43:56 EDT
Subject: Re: (no subject)
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oh sorry

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hey, what about the aussie relaese dates, if they've been released i missed 
em!


>>>---words are the essance of thought. without words there is no 
>>>thought------>

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp



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Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 00:34:21 EDT
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In a message dated 7/29/01 4:20:19 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
jajy@earthlink.net writes:

>     I couldn't stomach the first three.  Too two-dimensional in the
>  way things were going as well as what I saw as a serious lack of
>  character development.  Same reason I didn't like Mists of Avalon.
>  The read like stock characters.  And RJ leaves way too many loose
>  ends that seem to serve very little purpose in the overall story
>  line.  It is why I vastly prefer REF and it is why I am on this
>  mailing list as opposed to RJ's.

I just finished Mists of Avalon and was curious why you thought there was a 
lack of character development?  If anything, the book was too long in 
development IMHO.  Did anyone see the miniseries on TNT yet?

Godfrey



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Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 14:51:46 +1000
Subject: Aussie Release
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From: Brad_A_Krahe@allegiance.com.au
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Anywhere from next week to 1 month away depending on which bookstore you
talk too.

Regards,

Brad Krahe
SAP Business & Support Consultant
Allegiance Systems




"Jonathon Cant" <fantus69@hotmail.com> on 31/07/2001 14:07:10

Please respond to FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>
>To:   FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>cc:    (bcc: Brad A Krahe/HCS)
>Subject:  RE: (no subject)
>
>
>
>
>hey, what about the aussie relaese dates, if they've been released i missed
>em!
>
>
>>>>---words are the essance of thought. without words there is no
>>>>thought------>
>
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp








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From: "Philip A. Culver" <parlor@mediaone.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Feist Blurbs
Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 01:17:12 -0400
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Hi Ray,

I've been meaning to ask the following.  I have been reading The Lost
Regiment series by William R. Forstchen and have noticed a couple of review
blurbs on the covers credited to one Raymond G. Feist.  At first I thought
it was you and then I noticed the middle initial was "G".  Any idea who this
person is?

Thanks,
Phil



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From: John <john@crydee.com>
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Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 06:28:43 +0100
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From: John <john@crydee.com>
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Philip A. Culver <parlor@mediaone.net> writes
>Hi Ray,
>
>I've been meaning to ask the following.  I have been reading The Lost
>Regiment series by William R. Forstchen and have noticed a couple of review
>blurbs on the covers credited to one Raymond G. Feist.  At first I thought
>it was you and then I noticed the middle initial was "G".  Any idea who this
>person is?

Most likely a simple typo
-- 
John

john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.

Raymond E Feist Ring
http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm



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At 11:41 PM 7/30/01 -0400, IndianaJJr@aol.com wrote:
>I read the FAQ most freaquently asked questions (not 
>all of them but 90%) and i didn't see this question 
>but wich is R.E.F's favorite character 

Then you should a) read the other 10% of the FAQ as 
the answer is there (hint: He doesn't have one.  He 
has several that are fun to write though) and b) stop 
posting in HTML.  

If you don't know how to set that in your email client, 
maybe someone else on the list can tell you, as AOL is 
outside my realm of experience.

rip
-- 
one of the aforementioned cranky old-timers.



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To: feistfans-l@cornell.edu
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: unsub scri bing from the list
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 09:10:54 +0100
To: feistfans-l@cornell.edu
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: unsub scri bing from the list
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I've had to munge this email so that it would get through
the listserver.  Thus the extra spaces in the subject and
below, and the non-actualized email addresses...

>Note for all you who want to unsubscribe:
>
>Send your email to listproc @ cornell . edu, 
>not to the list.

to: listproc @ cornell . edu
subject (will be ignored)
body of message should be just:

unsubscribe_feistfans-l

and that's it.  YOU WILL NEED TO REPLACE THE _ with a space
in the line above.  It is there so this email makes it past
the list server filters.

rip



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 05:06:29 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Feist Blurbs
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Monday, July 30, 2001, at 10:17 PM, Philip A. Culver wrote:

> Hi Ray,
>
> I've been meaning to ask the following.  I have been reading The Lost
> Regiment series by William R. Forstchen and have noticed a couple of 
> review
> blurbs on the covers credited to one Raymond G. Feist.  At first I 
> thought
> it was you and then I noticed the middle initial was "G".  Any idea who 
> this
> person is?
>
> Thanks,
> Phil
>
>


If you stop and think about it, you'll realize it was a typo.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: unsub scri bing from the list
Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 07:40:39 -0500
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Rip,
    Don't you just love these filters?  I've had to have several
dozen bounce back at me because of the way the text wraps on my
e-mails making the filter assume I was giving a listproc command.
What fun.

-James



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 14:04:25 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: unsub scri bing from the list
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

At 07:40 AM 7/31/01 -0500, James Young wrote:
>    Don't you just love these filters?  I've had to have several
>dozen bounce back at me because of the way the text wraps on my
>e-mails making the filter assume I was giving a listproc command.
>What fun.

And truly, truly annoying about them is that when people send
an email to the -LIST- that should have been sent to the -PROC-,
because they are -TRYING- to send a command, does it filter it 
and act accordingly? NO. *grumbles*, but send an email to
the -LIST- explaining how to -USE- the PROC, and it gets bounced
!!! And they don't bounce the entire message, just an extract !!!
So you have to retype the thing if you aren't keeping copies of
outgoing emails...

arggh.

rip



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From: "A Irving" <aignome@dingoblue.net.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
References: <CA256A9A.001AA05F.00@mailgate.allegiance.com.au>
Subject: Re: Aussie Release
Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 23:36:58 +1000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "A Irving" <aignome@dingoblue.net.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Aussie Release
Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 23:36:58 +1000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I spoke to QBD, and they said 'sometime soon' and Dymocks said early august.
Neither was specific, this has happened a lot lately, tyhey just don't seem
to know when it will be released.
----- Original Message -----
From: <Brad_A_Krahe@allegiance.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2001 2:51 PM
Subject: Aussie Release


> Anywhere from next week to 1 month away depending on which bookstore you
> talk too.
>
> Regards,
>
> Brad Krahe
> SAP Business & Support Consultant
> Allegiance Systems
>
>
>
>
> "Jonathon Cant" <fantus69@hotmail.com> on 31/07/2001 14:07:10
>
> Please respond to FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>
> To:   FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> cc:    (bcc: Brad A Krahe/HCS)
> Subject:  RE: (no subject)
>
>
>
>
> hey, what about the aussie relaese dates, if they've been released i missed
> em!
>
>
> >>>---words are the essance of thought. without words there is no
> >>>thought------>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>
>
>
>
>
>



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*** EOOH ***
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From: "Michael Renn" <troubador7@hotmail.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: (no subject)
Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 07:42:02 -0700
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Mr. Feist,

    First, do you prefer "Mr. Feist" or "Ray?"  I can't tell if there
is some sort of protocol for that.  Anyway, I am a directing student
and I am developing contacts in the film business... okay, only one so
far and he's just a script proof-reader for a small WB subsidiary, but
hey, it's a start.  So my question is, if someone were to have a
burning desire to try their hand at making movies out of your books,
say the Riftwar for starters, perhaps Magician Apprentice, then Master
just to keep things relatively simple at the start; what would you, as
author of the novels wish to see more of a focus on: the character
interaction and development or the action?  I personally think that
the secret to making a good movie of a book is to recognize the
importance of the plot developments and when, as it is inevitale in
this transfer between media, you cut something, you don't cut
something of higher importance than the stuff you leave in.  I have
seen this in many movies and it just pisses me off sometimes.  I read
an interview of yours on the webring where you said that if someone
wanted to pay you, you'd let them make the movie but you weren't going
to write it.  Understandable, but my follow-up question is that since
you have (obviously) such a strong grasp of the strengths of the text,
would you be willing to sit down with the screenplay writer and
discuss (briefly, because time is a valuable commodity) the importance
of events in your novel and what you believe are the key occurances?
Anyway, so that you all don't misunderstand, this is the dream of a
poor college student.  Please don't think that I'm going to be
pitching this idea to Universal tomorrow.  I just had to ask
Mr. Feist, or Ray, what he thought on this.  Thanks.

Michael Renn
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: Allan Mills 
>To: 'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu' 
>Sent: Monday, July 30, 2001 8:32 PM
>Subject: RE: (no subject)
>
>
> The movie topic has been churned around on this list many times. Unless someone fronts up with the money it won't ever happen. It would probably also require fantasy films to become very popular. Making Lord of the Rings is less of a risk because even people who don't like fantasy have usually heard of it. Hollywood in general seems to frown up fantasy and sci-fi. Try counting all of the great movies that Spielburg has made and divide it by the number of Oscars he's received.
>
> BTW, please try not to start so many sentences with the word "and". It's bad grammar and makes your message harder to read.
>
> Allan
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: IndianaJJr@aol.com [mailto:IndianaJJr@aol.com]
> >Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2001 1:25 PM
> >To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> >Subject: (no subject)
> >
> >
> >Hey I just read the FAQ or whatever and it says something about movies and I 
> >was just thinking that it would be so tight if they made one of like the 
> >riftwar series or the serpentwar saga cause it would be to much to make all 
> >the books. And if they can make a Lord of the Rings movie then Raymond's 
> >books would make a cool movie cause its a hundred times better then the 
> >hobbit or lord of the rings. And I have read all of lord of the rings even 
> >though I am 12. And now I will stop with my opinions sorry to waste our time. 
> >
> >			  -Chance- 

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Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 08:23:26 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On Tuesday, July 31, 2001, at 07:42 AM, Michael Renn wrote:

> Mr. Feist,
>     First, do you prefer "Mr. Feist" or "Ray?"  I can't tell if there 
> is some sort of protocol for that.  Anyway, I am a directing student 
> and I am developing contacts in the film business... okay, only one so 
> far and he's just a script proof-reader for a small WB subsidiary, but 
> hey, it's a start.  So my question is, if someone were to have a 
> burning desire to try their hand at making movies out of your books, 
> say the Riftwar for starters, perhaps Magician Apprentice, then Master 
> just to keep things relatively simple at the start; what would you, as 
> author of the novels wish to see more of a focus on: the character 
> interaction and development or the action?  I personally think that the 
> secret to making a good movie of a book is to recognize the importance 
> of the plot developments and when, as it is inevitale in this transfer 
> between media, you cut something, you don't cut something of higher 
> importance than the stuff you leave in.  I have seen this in many 
> movies and it just pisses me off sometimes.  I read an interview of 
> yours on the webring where you said that if someone wanted to pay you, 
> you'd let them make the movie but you weren't going to write it.  
> Understandable, but my follow-up question is that since you have 
> (obviously) such a strong grasp of the strengths of the text, would you 
> be willing to sit down with the screenplay writer and discuss (briefly, 
> because time is a valuable commodity) the importance of events in your 
> novel and what you believe are the key occurances?  Anyway, so that you 
> all don't misunderstand, this is the dream of a poor college student.  
> Please don't think that I'm going to be pitching this idea to Universal 
> tomorrow.  I just had to ask Mr. Feist, or Ray, what he thought on 
> this.  Thanks.
>  
> Michael Renn


You can call me Ray.

Secondly,  you'll discover once you get out of film school and into the 
real world of the business of film making, that 90% of your questions 
are academic, and I mean that literally.  It's the sort of thing that a 
student would ask, not a pro.

A producer will have a vision, and that vision may have nothing 
whatsoever to do with what I, the author of the book, has in mind.

As it's his millions (or at least the millions a bank lets him play 
with), it's entirely reasonable that he gets to decide what the project 
looks like, not me.

I am not a film maker.  I have no desire to be one.  I grew up in the 
business; my dad was a producer/director/writer, and I have almost no 
desire to spend my days working in collaboration with idiots.  While 
there are genuine geniuses in the film industry, they are few and far 
between.  There are lots of talented, hardworking, dedicated people as 
well.  But there are idiots, and I've never seen a project where you 
didn't have to spend a lot of your time dealing with idiots.

So, the only interest I have in a film/TV project would be in a strong 
license, that pays well.  Obviously, a good film or TV project would be 
my preference, but in the end, the only question that is material to me 
is how much will I make.

I leave all my creative impulses for my books, my kids, and (at some 
future point, I hope) the lady in my life.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.

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I love it when I show how naive I am!  Damn.  Well, Ray, I hope you
haven't already classified me as one of those idiots.  It's true I do
have my own vision, so here is my next question, because I'm fairly
new to the film thing (most of my background is on the stage).  What
is the protocol for writing a script off of the book(s)?  I mean since
your publisher owns the copyright, I know I can't sell or otherwise
gain mpersonally from writing it without yours (and/or your
publisher's) consent and that would involve royalties or whatever they
are called in this setting (again I'm mostly a stage guy.)  But can I
write something and then, if I think it's even worth the time I spent,
deal with the details of doing something with it?  I appreciate your
taking the time to educate me on this, and I know your probably
laughing your self to death over this poor naive fool, but like I
said, I have a vision.

Michael Renn

&gt;From: Raymond Feist <RAYMOND@BITTERSEA.COM>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu 
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu 
>Subject: Re: (no subject) 
>Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 08:23:26 -0700 
>
>You can call me Ray. 
> 
>Secondly, you'll discover once you get out of film school and into 
>the real world of the business of film making, that 90% of your 
>questions are academic, and I mean that literally. It's the sort of 
>thing that a student would ask, not a pro. 
> 
>A producer will have a vision, and that vision may have nothing 
>whatsoever to do with what I, the author of the book, has in mind. 
> 
>As it's his millions (or at least the millions a bank lets him play 
>with), it's entirely reasonable that he gets to decide what the 
>project looks like, not me. 
> 
>I am not a film maker. I have no desire to be one. I grew up in 
>the business; my dad was a producer/director/writer, and I have 
>almost no desire to spend my days working in collaboration with 
>idiots. While there are genuine geniuses in the film industry, they 
>are few and far between. There are lots of talented, hardworking, 
>dedicated people as well. But there are idiots, and I've never seen 
>a project where you didn't have to spend a lot of your time dealing 
>with idiots. 
> 
>So, the only interest I have in a film/TV project would be in a 
>strong license, that pays well. Obviously, a good film or TV 
>project would be my preference, but in the end, the only question 
>that is material to me is how much will I make. 
> 
>I leave all my creative impulses for my books, my kids, and (at some 
>future point, I hope) the lady in my life. 
> 
>Best, R.E.F. 
>---- 
> 
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away 
>by stupidity. 




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At 08:43 AM 7/31/01 -0700, Michael Renn wrote:
> I have a vision.

That, and $4 will get you a cup of coffee.
That, and $4,000,000 will get you the rights ;->

rip



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From: "David Christensen" <damc84@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Depths of the Black Efreet (Spoiler- I think)
Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 16:07:27 
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Hey Ray, would you happen to know what occured in the Jal-Pur desert during 
the time of the Great Upheaval (the final riftwar)? Comparing the maps of 
Triagia from the time of the Midkemia RPG and the books, I see only two 
differences, the first being the obvious (the Sunken Lands). Then there is 
the Depths of the Black Efreet, a gaping hole in the middle of Kesh... what 
is it?



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$4 dollars for a cup of coffee?  is it a big cup?

Cheers

Gaz.


"He who knows it all is either very wise
or very foolish, either way he is disappointed
Because he has stolen away the heart of wonder"

"Tad Williams"




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From: Tim Nicholas <tim@nicholas.net.nz>
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Geez, expensive coffee!
On Tue, Jul 31, 2001 at 04:57:11PM +0100, Richard Williamson wrote:
> At 08:43 AM 7/31/01 -0700, Michael Renn wrote:
> > I have a vision.
> 
> That, and $4 will get you a cup of coffee.
> That, and $4,000,000 will get you the rights ;->
> 
> rip
> 
> 

-- 
Tim Nicholas                          ||                      Cilix
Email: tim@nicholas.net.nz            ||              ICQ# 15869961
http://tim.nicholas.net.nz/           ||                Dunedin, NZ
Cell phone# +64 21 113 0399           || Home phone# +64 3 471 8415



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From: "DPont" <d.pontolaeng@chello.nl>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
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Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 18:13:37 +0200
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Hello mr. Feist,

I read your opinion about the filming-thing and now I have a question. 
If someone wishes to make a movie of one of you're books would you
give that person permission if he pays you enough money????

Stefanie Pontolaeng
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: Raymond Feist 
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu 
>Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2001 5:23 PM
>Subject: Re: (no subject)
>
>
>On Tuesday, July 31, 2001, at 07:42 AM, Michael Renn wrote:
>
>
>  Mr. Feist,
>      First, do you prefer "Mr. Feist" or "Ray?"  I can't tell if there is some sort of protocol for that.  Anyway, I am a directing student and I am developing contacts in the film business... okay, only one so far and he's just a script proof-reader for a small WB subsidiary, but hey, it's a start.  So my question is, if someone were to have a burning desire to try their hand at making movies out of your books, say the Riftwar for starters, perhaps Magician Apprentice, then Master just to keep things relatively simple at the start; what would you, as author of the novels wish to see more of a focus on: the character interaction and development or the action?  I personally think that the secret to making a good movie of a book is to recognize the importance of the plot developments and when, as it is inevitale in this transfer between media, you cut something, you don't cut something of higher importance than the stuff you leave in.  I have seen this in many movies and it just pisses me off sometimes.  I read an interview of yours on the webring where you said that if someone wanted to pay you, you'd let them make the movie but you weren't going to write it.  Understandable, but my follow-up question is that since you have (obviously) such a strong grasp of the strengths of the text, would you be willing to sit down with the screenplay writer and discuss (briefly, because time is a valuable commodity) the importance of events in your novel and what you believe are the key occurances?  Anyway, so that you all don't misunderstand, this is the dream of a poor college student.  Please don't think that I'm going to be pitching this idea to Universal tomorrow.  I just had to ask Mr. Feist, or Ray, what he thought on this.  Thanks.
>   
>  Michael Renn
>
>
>
>You can call me Ray.
>
>Secondly, you'll discover once you get out of film school and into the real world of the business of film making, that 90% of your questions are academic, and I mean that literally. It's the sort of thing that a student would ask, not a pro.
>
>A producer will have a vision, and that vision may have nothing whatsoever to do with what I, the author of the book, has in mind.
>
>As it's his millions (or at least the millions a bank lets him play with), it's entirely reasonable that he gets to decide what the project looks like, not me.
>
>I am not a film maker. I have no desire to be one. I grew up in the business; my dad was a producer/director/writer, and I have almost no desire to spend my days working in collaboration with idiots. While there are genuine geniuses in the film industry, they are few and far between. There are lots of talented, hardworking, dedicated people as well. But there are idiots, and I've never seen a project where you didn't have to spend a lot of your time dealing with idiots.
>
>So, the only interest I have in a film/TV project would be in a strong license, that pays well. Obviously, a good film or TV project would be my preference, but in the end, the only question that is material to me is how much will I make.
>
>I leave all my creative impulses for my books, my kids, and (at some future point, I hope) the lady in my life.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by stupidity.

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On 31 Jul 2001, at 16:57, Richard Williamson wrote:
> At 08:43 AM 7/31/01 -0700, Michael Renn wrote:
> > I have a vision.
> 
> That, and $4 will get you a cup of coffee.

$4? Must be a _big_ cup!

Chris
--
Chris Smith
Work: chris.smith@tfbplc.co.uk     Home: cjs94@zepler.org.uk
PGP Key available from public key servers; Key ID 0xA9DA8E79
"Veni, vidi, velcro." - "I came, I saw, I stuck around."



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Dang, you are an ill tempered oldtimer! :-) Yeah, I know, I've been
hearing that a lot lately.  Well, I don't drink coffee (I'm a tea guy
myself) so I'll save up for the rights and go from there.  :-)

Michael

"I have taken all knowledge to be my province." -Francis Bacon

>From: Richard Williamson <RICHARD.WILLIAMSON@WINDRIVER.COM>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu 
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu 
>Subject: Re: (no subject) 
>Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 16:57:11 +0100 
> 
>At 08:43 AM 7/31/01 -0700, Michael Renn wrote: 
> &gt; I have a vision. 
> 
>That, and $4 will get you a cup of coffee. 
>That, and $4,000,000 will get you the rights ;-&gt; 
> 
>rip 
> 

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Hello

RF> So, the only interest I have in a film/TV project would be in a strong
RF> license, that pays well.  Obviously, a good film or TV project would be 
RF> my preference, but in the end, the only question that is material to me 
RF> is how much will I make.

RF> I leave all my creative impulses for my books, my kids, and (at some 
RF> future point, I hope) the lady in my life.

Be careful with such statements, Ray: there may be ladies on a hunt!

Care to date me? :-)

(Only that's rather distant... :-)

Best regards,
Irene the Lazer Lady              mailto:yaurroch@mtu-net.ru



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Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 13:46:04 -0700
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On Tuesday, July 31, 2001, at 09:13 AM, DPont wrote:

> Hello mr. Feist,
>  
> I read your opinion about the filming-thing and now I have a question.
> If someone wishes to make a movie of one of you're books would you give 
> that person permission if he pays you enough money????
>  
>

Sure.  Of course, we might disagree on what constitutes "enough" money.

Best, R.E.F.

----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.
>

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On Tuesday, July 31, 2001, at 08:43 AM, Michael Renn wrote:

> I love it when I show how naive I am!  Damn.  Well, Ray, I hope you 
> haven't already classified me as one of those idiots.  It's true I do 
> have my own vision, so here is my next question, because I'm fairly new 
> to the film thing (most of my background is on the stage).  What is the 
> protocol for writing a script off of the book(s)?  I mean since your 
> publisher owns the copyright, I know I can't sell or otherwise gain 
> mpersonally from writing it without yours (and/or your publisher's) 
> consent and that would involve royalties or whatever they are called in 
> this setting (again I'm mostly a stage guy.)  But can I write something 
> and then, if I think it's even worth the time I spent, deal with the 
> details of doing something with it?  I appreciate your taking the time 
> to educate me on this, and I know your probably laughing your self to 
> death over this poor naive fool, but like I said, I have a vision.
>
>

The publisher doesn't own the copyright.  I do. The publisher merely 
licenses the work from me.  You can write whatever you want, as long as 
you don't try to show it to anyone.  If you do, that's an infringement.

If you want to license a published work, you start by paying for the 
license.  Every writer of popular books hears from students and first 
time filmmakers how excited they would be to work on a project, etc.  
The simple fact is, in films, it's all about money.  Unless you've got 
backing, you can't even start the dialogue.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.

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On Tuesday, July 31, 2001, at 10:49 AM, Yaurroch Inthuulchaten wrote:

> Hello
>
> RF> So, the only interest I have in a film/TV project would be in a 
> strong
> RF> license, that pays well.  Obviously, a good film or TV project 
> would be
> RF> my preference, but in the end, the only question that is material 
> to me
> RF> is how much will I make.
>
> RF> I leave all my creative impulses for my books, my kids, and (at some
> RF> future point, I hope) the lady in my life.
>
> Be careful with such statements, Ray: there may be ladies on a hunt!
>
> Care to date me? :-)
>
> (Only that's rather distant... :-)
>
> Best regards,
> Irene the Lazer Lady              mailto:yaurroch@mtu-net.ru
>
>


That would be a rather long distance romance, wouldn't it?

No, I'm having barely the wits to cope with the three I'm seeing right 
now, as one of them has just decided that we're going to get serious; I 
think she's allowing me to pretend I have something to say in the mater, 
but then I do deal in fantasy, right?

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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On Tuesday, July 31, 2001, at 04:07 PM, David Christensen wrote:

> Hey Ray, would you happen to know what occured in the Jal-Pur desert 
> during the time of the Great Upheaval (the final riftwar)? Comparing 
> the maps of Triagia from the time of the Midkemia RPG and the books, I 
> see only two differences, the first being the obvious (the Sunken 
> Lands). Then there is the Depths of the Black Efreet, a gaping hole in 
> the middle of Kesh... what is it?
>

There are things I can only hint at.

Actually, there are more changes than just those two. The Green Reaches 
and the other areas along the Keshian/Kingdom border became so 
impassable that except by sea, all commerce between Kesh and the Kingdom 
was cut off for over two hundred years.   As the Far Coast was reduced 
to nearly uninhabited, Krondor became pretty much "it" in the West, and 
Durbin became essentially a self-governing city, though it continued to 
pay lip service to being part of the Empire.

As for the Depths, the name should give you a hint as to why no one goes 
there willingly.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Wow, I put both feet in my mouth on the same day!

Michael

"I have taken all knowledge to be my province." -Francis Bacon

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» That would be a rather long distance romance, wouldn't it?
» 
» No, I'm having barely the wits to cope with the three I'm seeing right 
» now, as one of them has just decided that we're going to get serious; I 
» think she's allowing me to pretend I have something to say in the mater, 
» but then I do deal in fantasy, right?
» 
» Best, R.E.F.

Ahhh, thanks for that chuckle Ray... of course the down side is my monitor is 
now covered in a fine mist of coffee :)

-- David Smith



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Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 01:56:42 +0400
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From: Yaurroch Inthuulchaten <yaurroch@mtu-net.ru>
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Hello

>> Be careful with such statements, Ray: there may be ladies on a hunt!
>>
>> Care to date me? :-)
>>
>> (Only that's rather distant... :-)
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Irene the Lazer Lady              mailto:yaurroch@mtu-net.ru
>>
>>
RF> That would be a rather long distance romance, wouldn't it?

Yeah, but what can stop a _really_ brave person, especially
well-versed in fantasy?

RF> No, I'm having barely the wits to cope with the three I'm seeing right 
RF> now,

Wow! I would say you've your hands full, Ray! Bon chance!

RF> as one of them has just decided that we're going to get serious; I
RF> think she's allowing me to pretend I have something to say in the
RF> mater, but then I do deal in fantasy, right?

Sometimes I think we should still pity men. :-) Poor, poor, powerless
men, who have something to say only in fantasy!

(Well, I will not delve deep into this... :-)

Best regards,
Irene the Lazer Lady              mailto:yaurroch@mtu-net.ru



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Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 08:04:09 +1000 (EST)
From: David Smith - NT Interoperability Engineer <David.M.Smith@Sun.COM>
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Please quit with the HTML e-mail, it's really annoying. If you don't know how to 
disable it in hotmail I'm sure one of the other hotmail using folks on the list 
will be happy to show you how to turn it off.

Thanks.

-- David Smith

» X-Originating-IP: [216.174.222.10]
» X-PH: V4.1@cornell.edu (Cornell Modified) 
» From: "Michael Renn" <troubador7@hotmail.com>
» To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
» Subject: Re: (no subject)
» Mime-Version: 1.0
» X-OriginalArrivalTime: 31 Jul 2001 21:23:40.0639 (UTC) 
FILETIME=[11A7D6F0:01C11A07]
» X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.09.cu01/000107/15:22 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN
» 
»<html><div style='background-color:'><DIV>
»<P>Wow, I put both feet in my mouth on the same day!</P></DIV>
»<P>Michael </P>
»<P>"I have taken all knowledge to be my province." -Francis Bacon </P>&gt;From: 
»Raymond Feist <RAYMOND@BITTERSEA.COM>
»<DIV></DIV>&gt;Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu 
»<DIV></DIV>&gt;To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu 
»<DIV></DIV>&gt;Subject: Re: (no subject) 
»<DIV></DIV>&gt;Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 13:45:03 -0700 
»<DIV></DIV>&gt; 
»<DIV></DIV>&gt; 
»<DIV></DIV>&gt;On Tuesday, July 31, 2001, at 08:43 AM, Michael Renn wrote: 
»<DIV></DIV>&gt; 
»<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt;I love it when I show how naive I am!&nbsp; Damn.&nbsp; 
»Well, Ray, I hope you 
»<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt;haven't already classified me as one of those idiots.&nbsp; 
»It's true I 
»<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt;do have my own vision, so here is my next question, because 
»I'm 
»<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt;fairly new to the film thing (most of my background is on 
»the 
»<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt;stage).&nbsp; What is the protocol for writing a script off 
»of the 
»<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt;book(s)?&nbsp; I mean since your publisher owns the 
»copyright, I know I 
»<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt;can't sell or otherwise gain mpersonally from writing it 
»without 
»<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt;yours (and/or your publisher's) consent and that would 
»involve 
»<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt;royalties or whatever they are called in this setting (again 
»I'm 
»<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt;mostly a stage guy.)&nbsp; But can I write something and 
»then, if I 
»<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt;think it's even worth the time I spent, deal with the 
»details of 
»<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt;doing something with it?&nbsp; I appreciate your taking the 
»time to 
»<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt;educate me on this, and I know your probably laughing your 
»self to 
»<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt;death over this poor naive fool, but like I said, I have a 
»vision. 
»<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt; 
»<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt; 
»<DIV></DIV>&gt; 
»<DIV></DIV>&gt;The publisher doesn't own the copyright. I do. The publisher 
»merely 
»<DIV></DIV>&gt;licenses the work from me. You can write whatever you want, as 
»long 
»<DIV></DIV>&gt;as you don't try to show it to anyone. If you do, that's an 
»<DIV></DIV>&gt;infringement. 
»<DIV></DIV>&gt; 
»<DIV></DIV>&gt;If you want to license a published work, you start by paying for 
»the 
»<DIV></DIV>&gt;license. Every writer of popular books hears from students and 
»<DIV></DIV>&gt;first time filmmakers how excited they would be to work on a 
»<DIV></DIV>&gt;project, etc. The simple fact is, in films, it's all about 
»money. 
»<DIV></DIV>&gt;Unless you've got backing, you can't even start the dialogue. 
»<DIV></DIV>&gt; 
»<DIV></DIV>&gt;Best, R.E.F. 
»<DIV></DIV>&gt;---- 
»<DIV></DIV>&gt; 
»<DIV></DIV>&gt;Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained 
»away 
»<DIV></DIV>&gt;by stupidity. 
»<DIV></DIV></div><br clear=all><hr>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at <a 
»href='http://go.msn.com/bql/hmtag_itl_EN.asp'>http://explorer.msn.com</a><br></
»html>



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How do I turn off the html format?  I can't figure it out.  Sorry if
it is annoying, I wish I could stop.  If anyone knows how, please let
me know.  Thanks.

Michael

"I have taken all knowledge to be my province." -Francis Bacon 

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Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 09:15:15 +1000
Subject: Amateur Movies and such things
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From: Brad_A_Krahe@allegiance.com.au
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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 09:15:15 +1000
Subject: Amateur Movies and such things
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Ray,

I know the movie thing has been talked to death on this list many times
before now, but one topic I haven't seen covered is amateur films (non
profit - fan boy films). Let me explain,

a friend of mine is a huge starwars fan and has made a number of short
films for scif-fi conventions etc (totally non profit) recently he has
started to make a movie which ties into the Alien series of movies, his
short film will be between Alien 3 & Alien (4) Resurrection - some
companies don't mind non profit fan boy films, starwars/star trek are 2
famous examples of this, Fox on the other hand have told him "NO" and that
they'd seak legal action to have any such film removed from internet/sci-fi
convention,  but never the less he will go head with production and release
it on the internet for free.

My question for you Ray is: If a fan boy/girl made a short film (15-25 min)
about one of your books (small section of a book) totally non profit, what
would be your feelings towards this person/s & film, understanding of
course that your books are your bread and butter.

Regards,

Brad Krahe
SAP Business & Support Consultant
Allegiance Systems



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>>Hello mr. Feist,
>> 
>>I read your opinion about the filming-thing and now I have a question.
>>If someone wishes to make a movie of one of you're books would you give 
>>that person permission if he pays you enough money????
>> 
>>
>
>Sure.  Of course, we might disagree on what constitutes "enough" money.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
>stupidity.

Uhh.. I am just a little bit curious about this part. Largely known writers 
would ask for 7-digit sums at very last, to license their work or its just 
not enough money to even start to think about it?

Beers,
Alvaro

"Let us so live that when we come to die even the undertaker will be sorry."
Mark Twain





_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp



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From: "greg batman" <pollux@swirve.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 18:45:19 -0500
Subject: Re: American Release Dates
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*** EOOH ***
From: "greg batman" <pollux@swirve.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 18:45:19 -0500
Subject: Re: American Release Dates
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> Dumb question (I.e. I am sure someone answered this already but I
> don't remember the answer):  Is it going to be US after UK for Talon
> as it seems to have been going recently?

remember, there are no stupid questions, only stupid people.

just kidding!
-- 

_______________________________________________
Get Free Email at Swirve.com, http://www.swirve.com



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From: Allan Mills <milla@css.com.au>
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Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 09:53:14 +1000 
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*** EOOH ***
From: Allan Mills <milla@css.com.au>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: (no subject)
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 09:53:14 +1000 
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

  Hotmail will usually default to plain text when sending. When you compose
your message make sure the rich text editor is off. Are you using Hotmail
directly or connection to it via a mail client like Outlook or Eudora ? If
so tell us which one.
 
 Allan

-----Original Message-----
>From: Michael Renn [mailto:troubador7@hotmail.com]
>Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2001 9:13 AM
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: Re: (no subject)
>
>
>
>How do I turn off the html format?  I can't figure it out.  Sorry if it is
>annoying, I wish I could stop.  If anyone knows how, please let me know.
>Thanks.
>
>Michael 

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From: Terry Corbett <terrylc_69@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Depths of the Black Efreet (Spoiler- I think)
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 17:11:19 -0700 (PDT)
From: Terry Corbett <terrylc_69@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Depths of the Black Efreet (Spoiler- I think)
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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 OK, I'm a bit confused about something.  I read the FAQ and this was
mentioned, but for some reason I didn't understand the answer.  What
was first, the Midkemia RPG or these books?  If the RPG was first, who
made it?
Terry



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Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 10:15:28 +1000 (GMT+1000)
From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: (no subject)
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>  The movie topic has been churned around on this list many times. Unless
> someone fronts up with the money it won't ever happen. It would probably
> also require fantasy films to become very popular. Making Lord of the Rings
> is less of a risk because even people who don't like fantasy have usually
> heard of it. Hollywood in general seems to frown up fantasy and sci-fi. Try
> counting all of the great movies that Spielburg has made and divide it by
> the number of Oscars he's received.
>  BTW, please try not to start so many sentences with the word "and". It's
> bad grammar and makes your message harder to read.
>  Allan

I know I'm nitpicking a nitpicker:), but it is grammatically acceptable to
start a sentence with "And". This is according to the huge number of
English Lit and Journalist grammar lecturers you've always insisted that
their students could....well, at least at the University of Queensland.

Thanks
Darragh
-=-=
www.iamtheporkfireman.com
[Email]: s356179@student.uq.edu.au [ICQ]: 114283262



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From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Aussie Release
In-Reply-To: <003e01c119c5$ff5cad40$f1f6fea9@oemcomputer>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 10:18:06 +1000 (GMT+1000)
From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Aussie Release
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


Dymocks usually get it first. Sometimes even before the official release
date. (This happened for both ToG and KtA)

> I spoke to QBD, and they said 'sometime soon' and Dymocks said early august.
> Neither was specific, this has happened a lot lately, tyhey just don't seem
> to know when it will be released.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <Brad_A_Krahe@allegiance.com.au>
> To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2001 2:51 PM
> Subject: Aussie Release
>
>
> > Anywhere from next week to 1 month away depending on which bookstore you
> > talk too.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Brad Krahe
> > SAP Business & Support Consultant
> > Allegiance Systems
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > "Jonathon Cant" <fantus69@hotmail.com> on 31/07/2001 14:07:10
> >
> > Please respond to FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> >
> > To:   FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > cc:    (bcc: Brad A Krahe/HCS)
> > Subject:  RE: (no subject)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > hey, what about the aussie relaese dates, if they've been released i
> missed
> > em!
> >
> >
> > >>>---words are the essance of thought. without words there is no
> > >>>thought------>
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>

Thanks
Darragh
-=-=
www.iamtheporkfireman.com
[Email]: s356179@student.uq.edu.au [ICQ]: 114283262



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From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Depths of the Black Efreet (Spoiler- I think)
In-Reply-To: <200107312051.f6VKpgj23470@smtp3.san.rr.com>
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*** EOOH ***
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From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Depths of the Black Efreet (Spoiler- I think)
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

> > Hey Ray, would you happen to know what occured in the Jal-Pur desert
> > during the time of the Great Upheaval (the final riftwar)? Comparing
> > the maps of Triagia from the time of the Midkemia RPG and the books, I
> > see only two differences, the first being the obvious (the Sunken
> > Lands). Then there is the Depths of the Black Efreet, a gaping hole in
> > the middle of Kesh... what is it?
> There are things I can only hint at.
> Actually, there are more changes than just those two. The Green Reaches
> and the other areas along the Keshian/Kingdom border became so
> impassable that except by sea, all commerce between Kesh and the Kingdom
> was cut off for over two hundred years.   As the Far Coast was reduced
> to nearly uninhabited, Krondor became pretty much "it" in the West, and
> Durbin became essentially a self-governing city, though it continued to
> pay lip service to being part of the Empire.
> As for the Depths, the name should give you a hint as to why no one goes
> there willingly.
> Best, R.E.F.

Ain't a "Black Efreet" some kind of monster? Something like a gargoyle or
demon?


Thanks
Darragh
-=-=
www.iamtheporkfireman.com
[Email]: s356179@student.uq.edu.au [ICQ]: 114283262



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From: Allan Mills <milla@css.com.au>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Depths of the Black Efreet (Spoiler- I think)
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 10:49:34 +1000 
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From: Allan Mills <milla@css.com.au>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Depths of the Black Efreet (Spoiler- I think)
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 10:49:34 +1000 
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

 Ray used to play old fashioned D&D with his buddies in college. They didn't
like the existing system so they invented their own world and gaming system.
As they played more and more games they invented more and more dungeons,
cities, locations etc. 

 Years later when Ray was looking for an idea for a novel one of the others
suggested telling the story of how Greater Path magic came to Midkemia. 

 Allan
 

-----Original Message-----
>From: Terry Corbett [mailto:terrylc_69@yahoo.com]
>Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2001 10:11 AM
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: Re: Depths of the Black Efreet (Spoiler- I think)
>
>
>OK, I'm a bit confused about something.  I read the FAQ and this was
>mentioned, but for some reason I didn't understand the answer.  What was
>first, the Midkemia RPG or these books?  If the RPG was first, who made it? 
>Terry
>
>
>
>
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger
>http://phonecard.yahoo.com/
>


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From: Allan Mills <milla@css.com.au>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Depths of the Black Efreet (Spoiler- I think)
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 11:01:59 +1000 
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From: Allan Mills <milla@css.com.au>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Depths of the Black Efreet (Spoiler- I think)
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 11:01:59 +1000 
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

 An Efreet or Efreeti is from the same mythology as Djinn and Genies ie.
Middle Eastern/ Arabian. I think in AD&D they are usually native to the
elemental plain of Air. They typically have humanoid upper bodies with
non-human colours. They don't have legs, instead their lower bodies kind of
taper into a curved cloud shape. They float above the ground.

 IIRC you meet some in Baldur's Gate 2 if you play computer RPGs.

 I'm not sure what they appear like in Midkemia although the black part
suggests they are evil.

 Allan

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Darragh Murray [mailto:s356179@student.uq.edu.au]
> Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2001 10:22 AM
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Subject: Re: Depths of the Black Efreet (Spoiler- I think)
> 
>  
> Ain't a "Black Efreet" some kind of monster? Something like a 
> gargoyle or
> demon?
> 
> 
> Thanks
> Darragh
> -=-=
> www.iamtheporkfireman.com
> [Email]: s356179@student.uq.edu.au [ICQ]: 114283262
> 
> 



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Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 18:06:33 -0700
From: Carl Dershem <dershem@home.com>
Organization: Project Selene
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Amateur Movies and such things
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Brad_A_Krahe@allegiance.com.au wrote:
> 
> Ray,
> 
> I know the movie thing has been talked to death on this list many times
> before now, but one topic I haven't seen covered is amateur films (non
> profit - fan boy films). Let me explain,
> 
> a friend of mine is a huge starwars fan and has made a number of short
> films for scif-fi conventions etc (totally non profit) recently he has
> started to make a movie which ties into the Alien series of movies, his
> short film will be between Alien 3 & Alien (4) Resurrection - some
> companies don't mind non profit fan boy films, starwars/star trek are 2
> famous examples of this, Fox on the other hand have told him "NO" and that
> they'd seak legal action to have any such film removed from internet/sci-fi
> convention,  but never the less he will go head with production and release
> it on the internet for free.

Tell your friend to expect calls and visits and letters from VERY
expensive lawyers the moment anyone sees his film.  Once Fox said "NO",
he put his financial cuture in very strong jeopardy when he continued.

cd



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i have to say that thats a really good idea.  It would be good just to do a 
full movie with just fans....i mean reall only fans are going to go see it 
so.....

you would have to pick a  really crucial scene from the novels though, i'd 
help on that...great idea

i could be in on that!

regards
Jonathon
>>>-------words are the essance of thought. without words there is no 
>>>thought------>



_________________________________________________________________
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Non - profit or not, it's still Ray's interlectual
property, and any use if it without his permission is
unethical. *shrugs* if I ever get to be an author I
wouldn't allow it. Just putting my two cents in.

Matt


=====
~The longer you stand still the more likely it is you will be struck by lightning~

__________________________________________________
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Subject: Re: Amateur Movies and such things
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From: Brad_A_Krahe@allegiance.com.au
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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Subject: Re: Amateur Movies and such things
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I know he may get lettters from lawyers and other nasties etc, but since
he's making no money off it I'd don't he'd get more than a slap on the
wrist for his troubles.

He made one star wars take off movie called "Battle of the Bedroom" used
stop motion filming techinque, all his actors where toys (star wars
figures, gi joe, thunderbirds etc etc), been shown at various sci-fi
conventions around the world, he was even sent an email from a rep at
lucasart/entertainment whoever they are saying they thought it was very
funny (saw it at a convention where they judged all these short films) and
said that from a Lucasarts (whoever) point of view, non profit fan boy
films are most flattering. He printed and framed the email!

Regards,

Brad Krahe
SAP Business & Support Consultant
Allegiance Systems




Carl Dershem <dershem@home.com> on 01/08/2001 11:06:33

Please respond to FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>
>To:   FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>cc:    (bcc: Brad A Krahe/HCS)
>Subject:  Re: Amateur Movies and such things
>
>
>
>
>Brad_A_Krahe@allegiance.com.au wrote:
>>
>> Ray,
>>
>> I know the movie thing has been talked to death on this list many times
>> before now, but one topic I haven't seen covered is amateur films (non
>> profit - fan boy films). Let me explain,
>>
>> a friend of mine is a huge starwars fan and has made a number of short
>> films for scif-fi conventions etc (totally non profit) recently he has
>> started to make a movie which ties into the Alien series of movies, his
>> short film will be between Alien 3 & Alien (4) Resurrection - some
>> companies don't mind non profit fan boy films, starwars/star trek are 2
>> famous examples of this, Fox on the other hand have told him "NO" and
>that
>> they'd seak legal action to have any such film removed from
>internet/sci-fi
>> convention,  but never the less he will go head with production and
>release
>> it on the internet for free.
>
>Tell your friend to expect calls and visits and letters from VERY
>expensive lawyers the moment anyone sees his film.  Once Fox said "NO",
>he put his financial cuture in very strong jeopardy when he continued.
>
>cd
>







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From: "Jonathon Cant" <fantus69@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Amateur Movies and such things
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From: "Jonathon Cant" <fantus69@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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following on from my last posting on this topic, yes its a great idea, 
providing that Ray gives his permission if that happens then fine good, but 
if he doesn't well... then you don't really have much choice unless you want 
to be got for breach of copyright laws.....this isn't saying that ray should 
give his permission neithr was the other posting.....just get his permission 
before you do that...other wise it could end up very messy and expense


regards
Jonathon

"he was the type of man who would stand on a hill in a thunderstorm, in wet 
copper armour shouting all gods are bastards"

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp



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*** EOOH ***
From: Brad_A_Krahe@allegiance.com.au
X-Lotus-FromDomain: HCS
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 11:41:02 +1000
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Just so the List knows, I have no intension of making a film from a section
of one of Ray's books nor make a film based on the world Ray and his
friends have created. I totally respect the fact that Ray may be dead
againist a fan boy film being made (copyright etc - the fact its his
living), I just thought I'd pose the question to him since it hadn't been
asked to my knowledge.

My friend who makes these films has never read Ray's work :( so he wont be
making any films either.

Regards,

Brad Krahe
SAP Business & Support Consultant
Allegiance Systems




Matt Sainsbury <lord_al_rashid@yahoo.com> on 01/08/2001 11:19:06

Please respond to FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>
>To:   FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>cc:    (bcc: Brad A Krahe/HCS)
>Subject:  Re: Amateur Movies and such things
>
>
>
>
>Non - profit or not, it's still Ray's interlectual
>property, and any use if it without his permission is
>unethical. *shrugs* if I ever get to be an author I
>wouldn't allow it. Just putting my two cents in.
>
>Matt
>
>
>=====
>~The longer you stand still the more likely it is you will be struck by
>lightning~
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger
>http://phonecard.yahoo.com/
>

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From: Allan Mills <milla@css.com.au>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Amateur Movies and such things
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 11:45:54 +1000 
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*** EOOH ***
From: Allan Mills <milla@css.com.au>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Amateur Movies and such things
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 11:45:54 +1000 
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: Carl Dershem [mailto:dershem@home.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2001 11:07 AM
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Subject: Re: Amateur Movies and such things
> 
> 
> Brad_A_Krahe@allegiance.com.au wrote:
> > 
> > Ray,
> > 
> > I know the movie thing has been talked to death on this 
> list many times
> > before now, but one topic I haven't seen covered is amateur 
> films (non
> > profit - fan boy films). Let me explain,
> > 
> > a friend of mine is a huge starwars fan and has made a 
> number of short
> > films for scif-fi conventions etc (totally non profit) 
> recently he has
> > started to make a movie which ties into the Alien series of 
> movies, his
> > short film will be between Alien 3 & Alien (4) Resurrection - some
> > companies don't mind non profit fan boy films, 
> starwars/star trek are 2
> > famous examples of this, Fox on the other hand have told 
> him "NO" and that
> > they'd seak legal action to have any such film removed from 
> internet/sci-fi
> > convention,  but never the less he will go head with 
> production and release
> > it on the internet for free.
> 
> Tell your friend to expect calls and visits and letters from VERY
> expensive lawyers the moment anyone sees his film.  Once Fox 
> said "NO",
> he put his financial cuture in very strong jeopardy when he continued.
> 
> cd
> 
> 

 Yeah, being a fan does not excuse breaching their copyright. Doing it
non-profit doesn't make it right either. 

 Tell the guy to get a life also, if he's in a constructive mood tell him to
make his own Universe. I like sci-fi also but I don't support piggybacking
off of someone elses success. 

 Allan



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Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 01:59:55 
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Dear David Smith:

You might want to address the email directly to the one who is using HTML. I 
joined the list a month or so ago and was guilty of doing the same thing, 
but did not know it as people bitched about HTML but never addressed their 
bitching to me. Once I figured out it was me, I had to figure out how to 
turn it off which was really easy.

You have to remember that some of the people on this list are pretty young 
and probably have no idea what you are talking about unless you take them by 
the hand.

Adieu

Jimmy


>From: David Smith - NT Interoperability Engineer <David.M.Smith@Sun.COM>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: Re: (no subject)
>Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 08:04:09 +1000 (EST)
>
>Please quit with the HTML e-mail, it's really annoying. If you don't know 
>how to
>disable it in hotmail I'm sure one of the other hotmail using folks on the 
>list
>will be happy to show you how to turn it off.
>
>Thanks.
>
>-- David Smith
>
>» X-Originating-IP: [216.174.222.10]
>» X-PH: V4.1@cornell.edu (Cornell Modified)
>» From: "Michael Renn" <troubador7@hotmail.com>
>» To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>» Subject: Re: (no subject)
>» Mime-Version: 1.0
>» X-OriginalArrivalTime: 31 Jul 2001 21:23:40.0639 (UTC)
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>»
>»<html><div style='background-color:'><DIV>
>»<P>Wow, I put both feet in my mouth on the same day!</P></DIV>
>»<P>Michael </P>
>»<P>"I have taken all knowledge to be my province." -Francis Bacon 
></P>&gt;From:
>»Raymond Feist <RAYMOND@BITTERSEA.COM>
>»<DIV></DIV>&gt;Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>»<DIV></DIV>&gt;To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>»<DIV></DIV>&gt;Subject: Re: (no subject)
>»<DIV></DIV>&gt;Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 13:45:03 -0700
>»<DIV></DIV>&gt;
>»<DIV></DIV>&gt;
>»<DIV></DIV>&gt;On Tuesday, July 31, 2001, at 08:43 AM, Michael Renn wrote:
>»<DIV></DIV>&gt;
>»<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt;I love it when I show how naive I am!&nbsp; Damn.&nbsp;
>»Well, Ray, I hope you
>»<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt;haven't already classified me as one of those 
>idiots.&nbsp;
>»It's true I
>»<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt;do have my own vision, so here is my next question, 
>because
>»I'm
>»<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt;fairly new to the film thing (most of my background is 
>on
>»the
>»<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt;stage).&nbsp; What is the protocol for writing a script 
>off
>»of the
>»<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt;book(s)?&nbsp; I mean since your publisher owns the
>»copyright, I know I
>»<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt;can't sell or otherwise gain mpersonally from writing 
>it
>»without
>»<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt;yours (and/or your publisher's) consent and that would
>»involve
>»<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt;royalties or whatever they are called in this setting 
>(again
>»I'm
>»<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt;mostly a stage guy.)&nbsp; But can I write something 
>and
>»then, if I
>»<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt;think it's even worth the time I spent, deal with the
>»details of
>»<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt;doing something with it?&nbsp; I appreciate your taking 
>the
>»time to
>»<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt;educate me on this, and I know your probably laughing 
>your
>»self to
>»<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt;death over this poor naive fool, but like I said, I 
>have a
>»vision.
>»<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt;
>»<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt;
>»<DIV></DIV>&gt;
>»<DIV></DIV>&gt;The publisher doesn't own the copyright. I do. The 
>publisher
>»merely
>»<DIV></DIV>&gt;licenses the work from me. You can write whatever you want, 
>as
>»long
>»<DIV></DIV>&gt;as you don't try to show it to anyone. If you do, that's an
>»<DIV></DIV>&gt;infringement.
>»<DIV></DIV>&gt;
>»<DIV></DIV>&gt;If you want to license a published work, you start by 
>paying for
>»the
>»<DIV></DIV>&gt;license. Every writer of popular books hears from students 
>and
>»<DIV></DIV>&gt;first time filmmakers how excited they would be to work on 
>a
>»<DIV></DIV>&gt;project, etc. The simple fact is, in films, it's all about
>»money.
>»<DIV></DIV>&gt;Unless you've got backing, you can't even start the 
>dialogue.
>»<DIV></DIV>&gt;
>»<DIV></DIV>&gt;Best, R.E.F.
>»<DIV></DIV>&gt;----
>»<DIV></DIV>&gt;
>»<DIV></DIV>&gt;Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be 
>explained
>»away
>»<DIV></DIV>&gt;by stupidity.
>»<DIV></DIV></div><br clear=all><hr>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer 
>at <a
>»href='http://go.msn.com/bql/hmtag_itl_EN.asp'>http://explorer.msn.com</a><br></
>»html>
>


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp



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From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
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Subject: HTML 
Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 22:24:29 -0400
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Hey Mike, it's easy. In hotmail, when you hit compose, or reply, or whatever 
you do to write an email, you will see a drop down list on the left side of 
the screen just above where you actually start writing the email. It shool 
say "tools" and have a down arrow on the right side.

Click the arrow. Move down to where it says "rich text editor off" and click 
that.

That's it, you are all set, no more nasty HTML and no more grumpy old men 
complaining about HTML

Adieu

Jimmy.
>From: "Michael Renn" <troubador7@hotmail.com>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: Re: (no subject)
>Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 16:12:53 -0700
>


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

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Subject: RE: Amateur Movies and such things
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From: Brad_A_Krahe@allegiance.com.au
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Subject: RE: Amateur Movies and such things
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Hay Allen,

People could say the same thing to you and me, get a life! where fans on a
email-list, alot of people might think where the ones who need to get out
more! Allan. Anyway he's not making money out of it, and the films
(universes) he is basing his films on have been given the green light from
the copyright holders so long as he doesn't directly reproduce scenes from
the movies (A: with stand in actors or B: include original footage in his
films).

Anyway, at the end of the day nobody knows who he is - but people talk
about the funny short film they saw at the local sci-fi convention, its
people like my friend (Yourself and I included) that keep these
people/businesses going, encourage them to write more books - produce more
films because they know they have a huge dedicated following, dedicated
being the word here.

Sales of books or video sales isn't the only way (major way Yes!) companies
use to justify continuing to produce movies/books, having a dedicated fan
base, especially today when this can be measured by number of websites,
hits on a website, newsgroups etc etc also plays a factor.

Why do you think Wheel of time has gone on as long as it has, they know
they have a huge dedicated fan base who are determined to read every book,
regardless if the last three or more books are any good!!!!! just go back
through past posts to this list! I know people who run Ultima on-line game
shards using Wheel of time maps, pretending they're actually playing a
persistent W.O.T on-line game!

Look at the end of the day were never all going to agree, I was only asking
Ray his thoughts on the matter because no one had mentioned it before.
These lists are good ideas' until people start attacking one anothers
idea's or persons, telling people to 'get a life' come on, lets all play
nicely now!



***************************************************************************
********
Allan wrote:
>
> Yeah, being a fan does not excuse breaching their copyright. Doing it
>non-profit doesn't make it right either.
>
> Tell the guy to get a life also, if he's in a constructive mood tell him
>to
>make his own Universe. I like sci-fi also but I don't support piggybacking
>off of someone elses success.
>
***************************************************************************
********

Regards,

Brad Krahe
SAP Business & Support Consultant
Allegiance Systems



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Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 19:35:07 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Amateur Movies and such things
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On Tuesday, July 31, 2001, at 04:15 PM, Brad_A_Krahe@allegiance.com.au 
wrote:

> Ray,
>
> I know the movie thing has been talked to death on this list many times
> before now, but one topic I haven't seen covered is amateur films (non
> profit - fan boy films). Let me explain,
>
> a friend of mine is a huge starwars fan and has made a number of short
> films for scif-fi conventions etc (totally non profit) recently he has
> started to make a movie which ties into the Alien series of movies, his
> short film will be between Alien 3 & Alien (4) Resurrection - some
> companies don't mind non profit fan boy films, starwars/star trek are 2
> famous examples of this, Fox on the other hand have told him "NO" and 
> that
> they'd seak legal action to have any such film removed from 
> internet/sci-fi
> convention,  but never the less he will go head with production and 
> release
> it on the internet for free.
>
> My question for you Ray is: If a fan boy/girl made a short film (15-25 
> min)
> about one of your books (small section of a book) totally non profit, 
> what
> would be your feelings towards this person/s & film, understanding of
> course that your books are your bread and butter.
>


Let me start by stating something that gets constantly overlooked.  If 
has NOTHING to do with profit.  If you do something without the owner's 
permission, it's an infringement.

I would hit any film maker (amateur or professional) using my material 
without my permission with a cease and desist order ASAP.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 19:36:34 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: (no subject)
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On Tuesday, July 31, 2001, at 04:35 PM, Alvaro Santos wrote:

>>> Hello mr. Feist,
>>> †
>>> I read your opinion about the filming-thing and now I have a question.
>>> If someone wishes to make a movie of one of you're books would you 
>>> give that person permission if he pays you enough money????
>>> †
>>>
>>
>> Sure.  Of course, we might disagree on what constitutes "enough" money.
>>
>> Best, R.E.F.
>>
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.
>
> Uhh.. I am just a little bit curious about this part. Largely known 
> writers would ask for 7-digit sums at very last, to license their work 
> or its just not enough money to even start to think about it?


Depends on the deal.  There are cash-only rights deals, and cash with a 
producer credit and profit participation, and front end profits vs. back 
end profits.

Very complex subject.

There are several good books out there on the business of film making, 
and if you're serious about knowing, read a couple, then the terminology 
will start to make sense.

Best, R.E.F.

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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 19:40:56 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Amateur Movies and such things
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Tuesday, July 31, 2001, at 06:28 PM, Brad_A_Krahe@allegiance.com.au 
wrote:

> I know he may get lettters from lawyers and other nasties etc, but since
> he's making no money off it I'd don't he'd get more than a slap on the
> wrist for his troubles.

 From Fox?  He's what they call "judgement proof, i.e. he doesn't have 
assets that would make money for the complainant.  It would still be 
more than everything he owns.  He would almost certainly have to go 
bankrupt.  Because Fox will go after him and they will win and they will 
probably bleed every dime out of him just in lawyer fees long before 
they ever saw the inside of a courtroom.


>
> He made one star wars take off movie called "Battle of the Bedroom" used
> stop motion filming techinque, all his actors where toys (star wars
> figures, gi joe, thunderbirds etc etc), been shown at various sci-fi
> conventions around the world, he was even sent an email from a rep at
> lucasart/entertainment whoever they are saying they thought it was very
> funny (saw it at a convention where they judged all these short films) 
> and
> said that from a Lucasarts (whoever) point of view, non profit fan boy
> films are most flattering. He printed and framed the email!

Lucasfilms is very protective.  The sort of thing above you're talking 
about, however, gets into a grey area, parody, and is probably almost 
safe from lawsuit, but I wouldn't guarantee it.

And remember, those folks sending those messages aren't usually 
Lucasfilm lawyers.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.

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From: Allan Mills <milla@css.com.au>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Amateur Movies and such things
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 13:17:58 +1000 
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*** EOOH ***
From: Allan Mills <milla@css.com.au>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Amateur Movies and such things
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 13:17:58 +1000 
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

 Hmm, I've been to plenty of Star Trek conventions and have never seen any
funny films other than the Sev Trek spoof film being made.

 In any case if he is told no then he should accept their decision. If he
has the green light from the studios for making these mini-movies then why
did you say Fox have told him no ? Making a movie with the blessings of a
studio is fan work. Making a movie against their wishes is being an
intellectual thief at which point he needs to start his own fiction which is
what I mean by "get a life".

 Allan

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Brad_A_Krahe@allegiance.com.au
> [mailto:Brad_A_Krahe@allegiance.com.au]
> Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2001 12:28 PM
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Subject: RE: Amateur Movies and such things
> 
> 
> Hay Allen,
> 
> People could say the same thing to you and me, get a life! 
> where fans on a
> email-list, alot of people might think where the ones who 
> need to get out
> more! Allan. Anyway he's not making money out of it, and the films
> (universes) he is basing his films on have been given the 
> green light from
> the copyright holders so long as he doesn't directly 
> reproduce scenes from
> the movies (A: with stand in actors or B: include original 
> footage in his
> films).
> 
> Anyway, at the end of the day nobody knows who he is - but people talk
> about the funny short film they saw at the local sci-fi 
> convention, its
> people like my friend (Yourself and I included) that keep these
> people/businesses going, encourage them to write more books - 
> produce more
> films because they know they have a huge dedicated following, 
> dedicated
> being the word here.
> 
> Sales of books or video sales isn't the only way (major way 
> Yes!) companies
> use to justify continuing to produce movies/books, having a 
> dedicated fan
> base, especially today when this can be measured by number of 
> websites,
> hits on a website, newsgroups etc etc also plays a factor.
> 
> Why do you think Wheel of time has gone on as long as it has, 
> they know
> they have a huge dedicated fan base who are determined to 
> read every book,
> regardless if the last three or more books are any good!!!!! 
> just go back
> through past posts to this list! I know people who run Ultima 
> on-line game
> shards using Wheel of time maps, pretending they're actually playing a
> persistent W.O.T on-line game!
> 
> Look at the end of the day were never all going to agree, I 
> was only asking
> Ray his thoughts on the matter because no one had mentioned it before.
> These lists are good ideas' until people start attacking one anothers
> idea's or persons, telling people to 'get a life' come on, 
> lets all play
> nicely now!
> 
> 
> 
> **************************************************************
> *************
> ********
> Allan wrote:
> 
>  Yeah, being a fan does not excuse breaching their copyright. Doing it
> non-profit doesn't make it right either.
> 
>  Tell the guy to get a life also, if he's in a constructive 
> mood tell him
> to
> make his own Universe. I like sci-fi also but I don't support 
> piggybacking
> off of someone elses success.
> 
> **************************************************************
> *************
> ********
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Brad Krahe
> SAP Business & Support Consultant
> Allegiance Systems
> 
> 



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From: "Philip A. Culver" <parlor@mediaone.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Feist Blurbs
Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 23:25:40 -0400
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Philip A. Culver" <parlor@mediaone.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Feist Blurbs
Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 23:25:40 -0400
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Hi Ray,

At first I thought it was a typo, but then I noticed in 3 different books.
So I guess that begs the question, how can a noticeable typo persist across
multiple publishing and printings?  I would think it would be caught
somewhere along the line.  I guess one explanation could be if it was a new
blurb added to multiple reprints all at the same time.  Oh well.

Thanks for answering.  They always say go for the simplest explanation.

Phil



-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Raymond Feist
>Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2001 8:06 AM
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: Re: Feist Blurbs
>
>
>
>On Monday, July 30, 2001, at 10:17 PM, Philip A. Culver wrote:
>
>> Hi Ray,
>>
>> I've been meaning to ask the following.  I have been reading The Lost
>> Regiment series by William R. Forstchen and have noticed a couple of
>> review
>> blurbs on the covers credited to one Raymond G. Feist.  At first I
>> thought
>> it was you and then I noticed the middle initial was "G".  Any idea who
>> this
>> person is?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Phil
>>
>>
>
>
>If you stop and think about it, you'll realize it was a typo.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
>stupidity.
>


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*** EOOH ***
From: Brad_A_Krahe@allegiance.com.au
X-Lotus-FromDomain: HCS
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 13:34:02 +1000
Subject: RE: Amateur Movies and such things
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Star Wars was the movie!

Ray's answered, who's thoughts I really wanted to hear so we should just
drop this thread.

Regards,

Brad Krahe
SAP Business & Support Consultant
Allegiance Systems




Allan Mills <milla@css.com.au> on 01/08/2001 13:17:58

Please respond to FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>
>To:   "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
>cc:    (bcc: Brad A Krahe/HCS)
>Subject:  RE: Amateur Movies and such things
>
>
>
>
> Hmm, I've been to plenty of Star Trek conventions and have never seen any
>funny films other than the Sev Trek spoof film being made.
>
> In any case if he is told no then he should accept their decision. If he
>has the green light from the studios for making these mini-movies then why
>did you say Fox have told him no ? Making a movie with the blessings of a
>studio is fan work. Making a movie against their wishes is being an
>intellectual thief at which point he needs to start his own fiction which
>is
>what I mean by "get a life".
>
> Allan
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Brad_A_Krahe@allegiance.com.au
>> [mailto:Brad_A_Krahe@allegiance.com.au]
>> Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2001 12:28 PM
>> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>> Subject: RE: Amateur Movies and such things
>>
>>
>> Hay Allen,
>>
>> People could say the same thing to you and me, get a life!
>> where fans on a
>> email-list, alot of people might think where the ones who
>> need to get out
>> more! Allan. Anyway he's not making money out of it, and the films
>> (universes) he is basing his films on have been given the
>> green light from
>> the copyright holders so long as he doesn't directly
>> reproduce scenes from
>> the movies (A: with stand in actors or B: include original
>> footage in his
>> films).
>>
>> Anyway, at the end of the day nobody knows who he is - but people talk
>> about the funny short film they saw at the local sci-fi
>> convention, its
>> people like my friend (Yourself and I included) that keep these
>> people/businesses going, encourage them to write more books -
>> produce more
>> films because they know they have a huge dedicated following,
>> dedicated
>> being the word here.
>>
>> Sales of books or video sales isn't the only way (major way
>> Yes!) companies
>> use to justify continuing to produce movies/books, having a
>> dedicated fan
>> base, especially today when this can be measured by number of
>> websites,
>> hits on a website, newsgroups etc etc also plays a factor.
>>
>> Why do you think Wheel of time has gone on as long as it has,
>> they know
>> they have a huge dedicated fan base who are determined to
>> read every book,
>> regardless if the last three or more books are any good!!!!!
>> just go back
>> through past posts to this list! I know people who run Ultima
>> on-line game
>> shards using Wheel of time maps, pretending they're actually playing a
>> persistent W.O.T on-line game!
>>
>> Look at the end of the day were never all going to agree, I
>> was only asking
>> Ray his thoughts on the matter because no one had mentioned it before.
>> These lists are good ideas' until people start attacking one anothers
>> idea's or persons, telling people to 'get a life' come on,
>> lets all play
>> nicely now!
>>
>>
>>
>> **************************************************************
>> *************
>> ********
>> Allan wrote:
>>
>>  Yeah, being a fan does not excuse breaching their copyright. Doing it
>> non-profit doesn't make it right either.
>>
>>  Tell the guy to get a life also, if he's in a constructive
>> mood tell him
>> to
>> make his own Universe. I like sci-fi also but I don't support
>> piggybacking
>> off of someone elses success.
>>
>> **************************************************************
>> *************
>> ********
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Brad Krahe
>> SAP Business & Support Consultant
>> Allegiance Systems
>>
>>
>







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From: "greg batman" <pollux@swirve.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 23:03:34 -0500
Subject: RE: Amateur Movies and such things
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*** EOOH ***
From: "greg batman" <pollux@swirve.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 23:03:34 -0500
Subject: RE: Amateur Movies and such things
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

>  Yeah, being a fan does not excuse breaching their copyright. Doing it
> non-profit doesn't make it right either. 
> 
>  Tell the guy to get a life also, if he's in a constructive mood tell him to
> make his own Universe. I like sci-fi also but I don't support piggybacking
> off of someone elses success. 
> 
>  Allan

wow, that was rather caustic.  remember, these are "fan" films, it's
not like they are stealing anything from the authors, producers, or
whomever.  i would say to respect the wishes of the author, just
because that's the right thing to do.  as far as the star wars fan
films, some are quite good, and expand the idea of the star wars
universe, with no ill will from either side.  just my two cents.  it
could be that ray might enjoy watching a bunch of goofs make a project
off of his world.

-- 

_______________________________________________
Get Free Email at Swirve.com, http://www.swirve.com



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From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
References: <20010801040334.11399.qmail@swirve.com>
Subject: Re: Amateur Movies and such things
Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 23:26:21 -0500
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Amateur Movies and such things
Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 23:26:21 -0500
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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    Look I am going to be really mean and nasty here and point out
that Allan is right, as is Ray, and you are flat out wrong,
misinformed and deluded if you think that you have some kind of
right to steal from someone, because that is exactly what copy right
infringement is...stealing.  Adding the word fan, or non-profit, or
any number of other prefix to an infringing piece of material does
not in ANY WAY make it legal, ethical, or tolerable by the copyright
holder.  If you do manage to break copyright I wish a plague of
lawyers on you for it, and trust me, it doesn't take much wishing to
make lawyers appear over copyright infringement.  If you don't
believe me, ask Napster.

-James

"The road to hell is paved with good intentions" - don't remember
who said it but it is damn good advice.

----- Original Message -----
From: "greg batman" <pollux@swirve.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2001 11:03 PM
Subject: RE: Amateur Movies and such things


> >  Yeah, being a fan does not excuse breaching their copyright. Doing it
> > non-profit doesn't make it right either.
> >
> >  Tell the guy to get a life also, if he's in a constructive mood tell him to
> > make his own Universe. I like sci-fi also but I don't support piggybacking
> > off of someone elses success.
> >
> >  Allan
>
> wow, that was rather caustic.  remember, these are "fan" films,
>it's not like they are stealing anything from the authors,
>producers, or whomever.  i would say to respect the wishes of the
>author, just because that's the right thing to do.  as far as the
>star wars fan films, some are quite good, and expand the idea of the
>star wars universe, with no ill will from either side.  just my two
>cents.  it could be that ray might enjoy watching a bunch of goofs
>make a project off of his world.
>
> --
>
> _______________________________________________
> Get Free Email at Swirve.com, http://www.swirve.com
>



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From: Allan Mills <milla@css.com.au>
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Subject: RE: Amateur Movies and such things
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*** EOOH ***
From: Allan Mills <milla@css.com.au>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Amateur Movies and such things
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 14:45:28 +1000 
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: greg batman [mailto:pollux@swirve.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2001 2:04 PM
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Subject: RE: Amateur Movies and such things
> 
> 
> >  Yeah, being a fan does not excuse breaching their 
> copyright. Doing it
> > non-profit doesn't make it right either. 
> > 
> >  Tell the guy to get a life also, if he's in a constructive 
> mood tell him to
> > make his own Universe. I like sci-fi also but I don't 
> support piggybacking
> > off of someone elses success. 
> > 
> >  Allan
> 
> wow, that was rather caustic.  remember, these are "fan" 
> films, it's not like they are stealing anything from the 
> authors, producers, or whomever.  i would say to respect the 
> wishes of the author, just because that's the right thing to 
> do.  as far as the star wars fan films, some are quite good, 
> and expand the idea of the star wars universe, with no ill 
> will from either side.  just my two cents.  it could be that 
> ray might enjoy watching a bunch of goofs make a project off 
> of his world.
> 
> -- 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Get Free Email at Swirve.com, http://www.swirve.com
> 
> 

 In your opinion it might seem that way but is it true ? If you make a fan
film you might be offered a job by someone who sees your work. You also
dilute the universe in question by creating non-canon fiction. (Admittedly
Star Trek does it for themselves but Star Wars is another matter). Lucas has
tightly controlled the Star Wars Universe, you only see books and films that
are canon. To "expand" his universe without permission is blatently rude. 

 Good or not you don't have the right to wander into someone elses backyard
and start playing with their tools. 

 Allan



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 <5.1.0.14.2.20010731165614.00eac8d0@mail.swindon.wrsec.fr>
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Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com> writes
>At 08:43 AM 7/31/01 -0700, Michael Renn wrote:
>> I have a vision.
>
>That, and $4 will get you a cup of coffee.
>That, and $4,000,000 will get you the rights ;->
>
>rip
>
Hey your in the UK now, so that should be  4,000,000 Pound Sterling <G>
-- 
John

john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.

Raymond E Feist Ring
http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm



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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: Reto Meier <Reto@SureSpek.net.au>
Subject: Honored Enemy Available in Perth (Australia)
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 15:09:27 +0800
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: Reto Meier <Reto@SureSpek.net.au>
Subject: Honored Enemy Available in Perth (Australia)
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Just a quick note to Feist fans located in and around Perth. I picked 
myself up a copy of Honored Enemy at an A&R store this afternoon - 
apparently "hot of the presses" so it's out there for your reading pleasure.

Cheers
Reto



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Subject: Re: Aussie Release 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 31 Jul 2001 23:36:58 +1000."
             <003e01c119c5$ff5cad40$f1f6fea9@oemcomputer> 
Cc: Alan.Hargreaves@Sun.COM
From: Alan.Hargreaves@Sun.COM
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Subject: Re: Aussie Release 
Cc: Alan.Hargreaves@Sun.COM
From: Alan.Hargreaves@Sun.COM
Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 17:31:46 +1000
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Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

woo hoo, it doesn't get much better.I am on holidays for a week and I dropped 
into Infinitas Bookshop today (I didn't know where it was, I was on my way 
back to pick up the car from a car park and noticed it there) and they got 
their shipment of Honoured enemy this morning. Apparantly, I got his 6th copy.

For those interested the address is 

	Infinitas Bookshop Pty Ltd
	Shop 5 Horwood Place
	Paramatta NSW 2150
	 Ph (02) 9633 5682
	Fax (02) 9891 9264
	infinitas@bigpond.com

It cost me AUS$39.95.


alan.
--
Alan Hargreaves                 Senior Technical Support Specialist
Phone      : +61 2 9844 5379    Technical Support Group
Mobile     : +61 416 207 573    APAC Customer Care Centre
Fax        : +61 2 9418 2143    Sun Microsystems Australia
Call Centre: 1 800 555 786      828 Pacific Highway, Gordon NSW 2072

    "On two occasions, I have been asked [by members of Parliament],
    'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will
    the right answers come out?' I am not able to rightly apprehend
    the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question."

					  -- Charles Babbage



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References: <20010801011906.71274.qmail@web13005.mail.yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Amateur Movies and such things
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 17:39:31 +0930
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From: "Sonia Tabe" <sonia@nt-tech.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Amateur Movies and such things
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 17:39:31 +0930
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Since people are talking about amateur films, I'd thought I'd mention this.
Do you people know of the DragonLance books? I figure at least half of you
do. Anyway, some people in some country are making a "trailer" based on the
books. There is a Raistlin, Kitiara, Tas... All the favorites. Anyway, when
they finish with it they plan to put it on the internet for the fans of the
series to see. I think that rocks (DJ)!



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Subject: Re: Honored Enemy Available in Perth (Australia)
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 16:29:13 +0800
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Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: "Chris Johnstone" <csjohnst@bigpond.net.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Honored Enemy Available in Perth (Australia)
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 16:29:13 +0800
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Thanks for the heads up Reto, I just went out and bought my copy. Now I have
a long night of reading ahead of me.

Chris
----- Original Message -----
From: "Reto Meier" <Reto@SureSpek.net.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2001 3:09 PM
Subject: Honored Enemy Available in Perth (Australia)


> Just a quick note to Feist fans located in and around Perth. I picked
> myself up a copy of Honored Enemy at an A&R store this afternoon -
> apparently "hot of the presses" so it's out there for your reading pleasure.
>
> Cheers
> Reto
>



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Subject: Honored Enemy
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Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: "Sonia Tabe" <sonia@nt-tech.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Honored Enemy
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 17:57:01 +0930
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Today, as I was diving into my local book shop to buy Time of the Twins and
Test of the Twins, I asked first before buying at the counter if any of my
ordered books have come in (there's like 6 of them). They said no, so I said
I'd buy the TotT books. Anyway, I was moseying out of the shop, wait a sec.
I'll put it to poetry to make it more interesting...

I chanced a look back.
And what did I see?
A copy of Honored Enemy,
Staring back at me.
My mouth opened once.
It opened twice.
I dived at the book,
For a way-close-up look.

And yeah. I'm tired of rhyming now. So I went and saw the bookshop worker
who I ordered the book from, and asked her about it. Now the copy on the
shelf was a hardback, and on the order sheet was written paperback only.
Well then. I let them know I didn't care if it was in hardback. So now I
can't afford the book until next week! Oh what cruel irony. I got paid
today, spent it all today, and won't be able to get my precious book until
next week! And just to point out, the copy only costs $36.95 at my bookshop.



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Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 16:34:41 +0800
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: Jon Hope <jehope@chem.uwa.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Honored Enemy Available in Perth (Australia)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

At 15:09 1/08/01 +0800, you wrote:
>Just a quick note to Feist fans located in and around Perth. I picked 
>myself up a copy of Honored Enemy at an A&R store this afternoon - 
>apparently "hot of the presses" so it's out there for your reading pleasure.

Which store?

Cheers


Jon

"Who are they that you should believe anything that they say?"



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Subject: Re: Honored Enemy Available in Perth (Australia)
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 17:01:49 +0800
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Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: "Chris Johnstone" <csjohnst@bigpond.net.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Honored Enemy Available in Perth (Australia)
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 17:01:49 +0800
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

> At 15:09 1/08/01 +0800, you wrote:
> >Just a quick note to Feist fans located in and around Perth. I picked
> >myself up a copy of Honored Enemy at an A&R store this afternoon -
> >apparently "hot of the presses" so it's out there for your reading pleasure.
>
> Which store?
>
> Cheers
>
>
> Jon
>
> "Who are they that you should believe anything that they say?"
>

I got my copy from Joondalup A&R at about 4pm. It wasn't on the shelf yet,
they were just unpacking them from the boxes to put their price stickers on.
I picked one up off the pile on the floor.

I guess that most stores in the metro area will have them by tomorrow
morning, if not already.

Chris




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>There are several good books out there on the business of film making, and 
>if you're serious about knowing, read a couple, then the terminology will 
>start to make sense.
>
>Best, R.E.F.

Could you please recommend the best ones to start reading, Ray?
Thanks!


Beers,
Alvaro

"Let us so live that when we come to die even the undertaker will be sorry."
Mark Twain




_________________________________________________________________
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From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
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References: <20010801011906.71274.qmail@web13005.mail.yahoo.com> <006301c11a61$4bbcd160$4785fea9@Sonia>
Subject: Re: Amateur Movies and such things
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 09:22:02 -0500
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From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Amateur Movies and such things
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 09:22:02 -0500
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I don't.
    Well, odds are that some one is going to tip off Hasbro/WotC,
and whom ever else has a vested interest in the series.  That will
land these people in hot legal water, and frankly I think they will
deserve it.  I don't support fan-fic arguments.

1. Because 99.9% of it is crap
2. Because it is illegal and for all my problems I am at least a
reasonable law abiding person, even if I am as tactless as a mule.
3. Because I have an interest (several thousand dollars in books,
and probably hundreds of hours in reading) in making sure my
favorite writers/artists make enough money to continue writing
without worry of frivolous lawsuits distracting them.
4. Finally because I don't believe imitation is the sincerest form
of flattery, I think it is the greatest form of irritation.

-James

> Since people are talking about amateur films, I'd thought I'd mention this.
> Do you people know of the DragonLance books? I figure at least half of you
> do. Anyway, some people in some country are making a "trailer" based on the
> books. There is a Raistlin, Kitiara, Tas... All the favorites. Anyway, when
> they finish with it they plan to put it on the internet for the fans of the
> series to see. I think that rocks (DJ)!



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Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 09:06:47 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Wednesday, August 1, 2001, at 06:14 AM, Alvaro Santos wrote:

>> There are several good books out there on the business of film making, 
>> and if you're serious about knowing, read a couple, then the 
>> terminology will start to make sense.
>>
>> Best, R.E.F.
>
> Could you please recommend the best ones to start reading, Ray?
> Thanks!
>

It's been years since I've read anything so nothing springs to mind.  
William Goldman (who wrote Butch Cassady and the Sundance Kid,  The 
Princess Bride, and a host of fine films and books) has two non-fiction 
books out on the subject.  Wait, one of them is "Adventures in the 
Screen Trade," if I remember right.  They're fun and enlightening..

But just do a search on "film making" or "film industry" on Amazon for a 
list of titles and concentrate on those that deal with the business as 
opposed to the bios of directors, history of studios, etc. (Unless, of 
course, those things are also of interest).

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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From: "Michael Renn" <troubador7@hotmail.com>
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From: "Michael Renn" <troubador7@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: (no subject)
Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 09:21:03 -0700
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Sometimes I use Outlook express, but recently I have been using a lot of the 
direct interface.  I think I figured out how to do it on the direct 
interface, if this message turned out.  How do you do it through, say, 
Outlook Express?

Thanks for your help.

Michael

"I have taken all knowledge to be my province." -Francis Bacon

>From: Allan Mills Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu To: 
>"'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" Subject: RE: (no subject) Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 
>09:53:14 +1000
>
>Hotmail will usually default to plain text when sending. When you compose 
>your message make sure the rich text editor is off. Are you using Hotmail 
>directly or connection to it via a mail client like Outlook or Eudora ? If 
>so tell us which one.
>
>Allan
>
>-----Original Message----- From: Michael Renn 
>[mailto:troubador7@hotmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2001 9:13 AM 
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu Subject: Re: (no subject)
>
>
>
>How do I turn off the html format? I can't figure it out. Sorry if it is 
>annoying, I wish I could stop. If anyone knows how, please let me know. 
>Thanks.
>
>Michael
>
>"I have taken all knowledge to be my province." -Francis Bacon
>
> >From: David Smith - NT Interoperability Engineer
>
> >Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu >To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu >Subject: 
>Re: (no subject) >Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 08:04:09 +1000 (EST) > >Please quit 
>with the HTML e-mail, it's really annoying. If you don't know how to 
> >disable it in hotmail I'm sure one of the other hotmail using folks on 
>the list >will be happy to show you how to turn it off. > >Thanks. > >-- 
>David Smith > >» X-Originating-IP: [216.174.222.10] >» X-PH: 
>V4.1@cornell.edu (Cornell Modified) >» From: "Michael Renn" >» To: 
>FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu >» Subject: Re: (no subject) >» Mime-Version: 1.0 
> >» X-OriginalArrivalTime: 31 Jul 2001 21:23:40.0639 (UTC) 
> >FILETIME=[11A7D6F0:01C11A07] >» X-Listprocessor-Version: 
>8.2.09.cu01/000107/15:22 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN
>
> >» >» >»
>
>Wow, I put both feet in my mouth on the same day!
>
> >»
>
>Michael
>
> >»
>
>"I have taken all knowledge to be my province." -Francis Bacon
>
> >From: >»Raymond Feist >» >Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu >» >To: 
>FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu >» >Subject: Re: (no subject) >» >Date: Tue, 31 Jul 
>2001 13:45:03 -0700 >» > >» > >» >On Tuesday, July 31, 2001, at 08:43 AM, 
>Michael Renn wrote: >» > >» >>I love it when I show how naive I am! Damn. 
> >»Well, Ray, I hope you >» >>haven't already classified me as one of those 
>idiots. >»It's true I >» >>do have my own vision, so here is my next 
>question, because >»I'm >» >>fairly new to the film thing (most of my 
>background is on >»the >» >>stage). What is the protocol for writing a 
>script off >»of the >» >>book(s)? I mean since your publisher owns the 
> >»copyright, I know I >» >>can't sell or otherwise gain mpersonally from 
>writing it >»without >» >>yours (and/or your publisher's) consent and that 
>would >»involve >» >>royalties or whatever they are called in this setting 
>(again >»I'm >» >>mostly a stage guy.) But can I write something and 
> >»then, if I >» >>think it's even worth the time I spent, deal with the 
> >»details of >» >>doing something with it? I appreciate your taking the 
> >»time to >» >>educate me on this, and I know your probably laughing your 
> >»self to >» >>death over this poor naive fool, but like I said, I have a 
> >»vision. >» >> >» >> >» > >» >The publisher doesn't own the copyright. I 
>do. The publisher >»merely >» >licenses the work from me. You can write 
>whatever you want, as >»long >» >as you don't try to show it to anyone. If 
>you do, that's an >» >infringement. >» > >» >If you want to license a 
>published work, you start by paying for >»the >» >license. Every writer of 
>popular books hears from students and >» >first time filmmakers how excited 
>they would be to work on a >» >project, etc. The simple fact is, in films, 
>it's all about >»money. >» >Unless you've got backing, you can't even start 
>the dialogue. >» > >» >Best, R.E.F. >» >---- >» > >» >Never attribute to 
>malice what can satisfactorily be explained >»away >» >by stupidity. >»
>
>_____
>
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at 
> >»href='http://go.msn.com/bql/hmtag_itl_EN.asp'>http://explorer.msn.com 
> >»html> >
>
>_____
>
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
>
>
>

_________________________________________________________________
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From: "Michael Renn" <troubador7@hotmail.com>
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From: "Michael Renn" <troubador7@hotmail.com>
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Subject: RE: (no subject)
Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 09:23:02 -0700
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This is true, to some extent.  It is grammatically acceptable, but it is 
unpleasant to the reader if every sentence starts with it.  Moderation is 
called for in the use of And to start sentences.

                           Michael
"I have taken all knowledge to be my province." -Francis Bacon



>From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
>Subject: RE: (no subject)
>Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 10:15:28 +1000 (GMT+1000)
>
> >  The movie topic has been churned around on this list many times. Unless
> > someone fronts up with the money it won't ever happen. It would probably
> > also require fantasy films to become very popular. Making Lord of the 
>Rings
> > is less of a risk because even people who don't like fantasy have 
>usually
> > heard of it. Hollywood in general seems to frown up fantasy and sci-fi. 
>Try
> > counting all of the great movies that Spielburg has made and divide it 
>by
> > the number of Oscars he's received.
> >  BTW, please try not to start so many sentences with the word "and". 
>It's
> > bad grammar and makes your message harder to read.
> >  Allan
>
>I know I'm nitpicking a nitpicker:), but it is grammatically acceptable to
>start a sentence with "And". This is according to the huge number of
>English Lit and Journalist grammar lecturers you've always insisted that
>their students could....well, at least at the University of Queensland.
>
>Thanks
>Darragh
>-=-=
>www.iamtheporkfireman.com
>[Email]: s356179@student.uq.edu.au [ICQ]: 114283262
>


_________________________________________________________________
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From: "Michael Renn" <troubador7@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Amateur Movies and such things
Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 09:29:05 -0700
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From: "Michael Renn" <troubador7@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Amateur Movies and such things
Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 09:29:05 -0700
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I agree with Matt here.  The idea of making a book into a movie is to create 
a medium that old fans and new fans can enjoy.  This in turn is to 
proliferate quality story-telling on the part of authors such as Ray.  It's 
their ideas, and furthermore, it's their livelihood.  To take that without 
remuneration, even for the "good of the fans" is not only unethical, but 
prohibitive to the continuation of our favorite author doing what he does 
best in a comfortable and properly-paid environment.  Artists have enough 
problems without fans doing things like that.

                           Michael
"I have taken all knowledge to be my province." -Francis Bacon



>From: Matt Sainsbury <lord_al_rashid@yahoo.com>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: Re: Amateur Movies and such things
>Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 18:19:06 -0700 (PDT)
>
>Non - profit or not, it's still Ray's interlectual
>property, and any use if it without his permission is
>unethical. *shrugs* if I ever get to be an author I
>wouldn't allow it. Just putting my two cents in.
>
>Matt
>
>
>=====
>~The longer you stand still the more likely it is you will be struck by 
>lightning~
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger
>http://phonecard.yahoo.com/
>


_________________________________________________________________
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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: John <john@crydee.com>
Subject: Re: Aussie Release
References: <CA256A9A.001AA05F.00@mailgate.allegiance.com.au>
 <003e01c119c5$ff5cad40$f1f6fea9@oemcomputer>
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Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 20:38:11 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: John <john@crydee.com>
Subject: Re: Aussie Release
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A Irving <aignome@dingoblue.net.au> writes
>I spoke to QBD, and they said 'sometime soon' and Dymocks said early august.
>Neither was specific, this has happened a lot lately, tyhey just don't seem
>to know when it will be released.

They all know when it is being released, just not when they are getting 
their copies:)
-- 
John

john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.

Raymond E Feist Ring
http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm



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From: "Michael Gibson" <gibfish@gibbyco.freeserve.co.uk>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: (no subject)
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 18:09:30 +0100
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

> Sometimes I use Outlook express, but recently I have been using a lot of the
> direct interface.  I think I figured out how to do it on the direct
> interface, if this message turned out.  How do you do it through, say,
> Outlook Express?
>
> Thanks for your help.

For Outlook and Outlook Express, open up your address book, open your entry for
this list (whatever you've got that sends to FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu), click on
the "Name" tab, and check the "Send email using Plain Text only" box, in the
lower left hand corner of the box.

Wahey - that's three times the above has been posted, and I only had to write it
once.

I think this would be a good thing to add the FAQ - is Larry/Psihawk still doing
it?

Mike,
Gibfish of the West.
                                          Check out my forums at:
"If a problem appears simple, then it     http://www.tonrae.co.uk/forums/
probably hasn't been thought through."



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From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: (no subject)
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 12:17:29 -0500
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    I sent an e-mail to Larry about updating the FAQs, since it is
rather out of date on a lot of things, however I have yet to get a
response (I sent it a few days ago now).  I figure he is busy with
his real life again.  Given that, I figure he'll get around to it
when he can.  I offered to help as needed to write some code, though
I tend to be a lot less flashy than the rest of you seem to prefer.
    Besides I think I was the one who sent in the detailed message
on how to fix the mess (i.e. html & outlook) anyway.
    Oh well, back to writing HTML.  I hate calendars...such a pain
to get right.

-James

> I think this would be a good thing to add the FAQ - is Larry/Psihawk still doing
> it?
>
> Mike,
> Gibfish of the West.
>                                           Check out my forums at:
> "If a problem appears simple, then it http://www.tonrae.co.uk/forums/
> probably hasn't been thought through."
>
>



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Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 10:28:10 -0700
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Thanks for all the help you guys.  I appreciate it.

                           Michael
"I have taken all knowledge to be my province." -Francis Bacon



>From: "Michael Gibson" <gibfish@gibbyco.freeserve.co.uk>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
>Subject: RE: (no subject)
>Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 18:09:30 +0100
>
> > Sometimes I use Outlook express, but recently I have been using a lot of 
>the
> > direct interface.  I think I figured out how to do it on the direct
> > interface, if this message turned out.  How do you do it through, say,
> > Outlook Express?
> >
> > Thanks for your help.
>
>For Outlook and Outlook Express, open up your address book, open your entry 
>for
>this list (whatever you've got that sends to FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu), 
>click on
>the "Name" tab, and check the "Send email using Plain Text only" box, in 
>the
>lower left hand corner of the box.
>
>Wahey - that's three times the above has been posted, and I only had to 
>write it
>once.
>
>I think this would be a good thing to add the FAQ - is Larry/Psihawk still 
>doing
>it?
>
>Mike,
>Gibfish of the West.
>                                           Check out my forums at:
>"If a problem appears simple, then it     http://www.tonrae.co.uk/forums/
>probably hasn't been thought through."
>


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp



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From: "Earl Borah" <earl@ncn.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 10:37:32 -0700
Subject: Re: Amateur Movies and such things
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Priority: normal
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> I agree with Matt here.  The idea of making a book into a movie is to
> create a medium that old fans and new fans can enjoy.  This in turn is
> to proliferate quality story-telling on the part of authors such as
> Ray.  It's their ideas, and furthermore, it's their livelihood.  To
> take that without remuneration, even for the "good of the fans" is not
> only unethical, but prohibitive to the continuation of our favorite
> author doing what he does best in a comfortable and properly-paid
> environment.  Artists have enough problems without fans doing things
> like that.


Well said.

It also seems to be something like breaking into a man's house to use 
his razor. The characters belong to someone else, and "borrowing" 
them for the purposes of making unauthorized fan fiction is just 
wrong. It's like an invasion of privacy, in a way, on top of the 
legal and moral issues of theft.

-----
  "I dislike being wrong, and having to admit it publicly later. It's
  embarrassing, humiliating, and unnecessary. It would have been just
  as easy, and much more pleasant, to have been right in the first place."
    - Jack Richard, former Editor of Boardwatch Magazine



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Subject: Re: Amateur Movies and such things
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From: kuros@pgtv.net (kuros)
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Amateur Movies and such things
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 12:35:37 -0700
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Using someone else's world for even non profit films is theft. That
author/artist/taraxian hydrosponge worked hard to create it, and thats how
they make their living. Wether or not you make a profit has nothing to do
with it. You are profiting (not monetarily, but there are many forms of
profit, such as fame, etc) by something that is not yours. This is known as
theft. I myself am a programmer. If someone were to take the source code for
one of my programs, and use it to develop something that becomes famous,
even if they don't make any money from it, then they have still
gained -something- from my work, and that is theft. -I- worked hard to
create it, and the idea that someone has no problems with taking my work
without my permission, and gaining something from it, is very irritating. If
you want to make films so bad, make up your own world.

On another note, why are people so anxious for novels to be made into
movies? I cannot remember a movie I have seen that has been better than a
book. Granted, the visual effects can be cool, but when I read a book, the
words form pictures in my head, complete with effects that put ILM to shame.
For instance, I just went and saw Planet of the Apes. I hated it. I'm not
going to say what it was, as I doubt everyone here has seen it, but the
novel (the original, not the novelization of this new piece of- err, movie)
was much better. This is not to say that all movies based on books are bad,
just that they are not (IMHO) as good as books.

Kuros

"No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife between the shoulder blades will
seriously cramp his style." -Vlad Taltos

(Hey, everyone else has a quote. Guess I need one too. =)

----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Renn" <troubador7@hotmail.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2001 9:29 AM
Subject: Re: Amateur Movies and such things


> I agree with Matt here.  The idea of making a book into a movie is to create
> a medium that old fans and new fans can enjoy.  This in turn is to
> proliferate quality story-telling on the part of authors such as Ray. It's
> their ideas, and furthermore, it's their livelihood.  To take that without
> remuneration, even for the "good of the fans" is not only unethical, but
> prohibitive to the continuation of our favorite author doing what he does
> best in a comfortable and properly-paid environment.  Artists have enough
> problems without fans doing things like that.
>
>                            Michael
> "I have taken all knowledge to be my province." -Francis Bacon
>
>
>
> >From: Matt Sainsbury <lord_al_rashid@yahoo.com>
> >Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> >To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> >Subject: Re: Amateur Movies and such things
> >Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 18:19:06 -0700 (PDT)
> >
> >Non - profit or not, it's still Ray's interlectual
> >property, and any use if it without his permission is
> >unethical. *shrugs* if I ever get to be an author I
> >wouldn't allow it. Just putting my two cents in.
> >
> >Matt
> >
> >
> >=====
> >~The longer you stand still the more likely it is you will be struck by
> >lightning~
> >
> >__________________________________________________
> >Do You Yahoo!?
> >Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger
> >http://phonecard.yahoo.com/
> >
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>
>



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References: <F110joT2Y89RdrUnR650000c38d@hotmail.com> <007001c11ac1$2bae7b70$0100a8c0@dragon>
Subject: Stupid Honored Enemy Question
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 13:11:21 -0500
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Darren McClung" <d@dwmc.org>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Stupid Honored Enemy Question
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 13:11:21 -0500
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Doubtless this has been posted before, and I've just missed it.  The FAQ
though is hopelessly out of date...so:

When can we expect Honored Enemy in the States.  Amazon.com doesn't even
have a listing for it, so my assumption would be "not soon."

Take care,

Darren



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From: "Michael Renn" <troubador7@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re: Amateur Movies and such things
Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 11:36:46 -0700
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From: "Michael Renn" <troubador7@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Amateur Movies and such things
Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 11:36:46 -0700
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Kuros,
     I cannot speak for everyone, but this is the reason I am so anxious to 
see movies of my favorite books (only well-done movies, mind you): I don't 
see the pictures.  All my life I have felt somehow less than the people 
around me because they all talk about the vivid images inspired by writing.  
To me, the saying "a picture is worth a thousand words" is perfect because 
no matter how vibrant or descriptive the text, it is still just text to me.  
I love the visual representations, the "pretty pictures" and wish with all 
my heart that I could see them as I read, but I don't, and I can't.  So I 
movie.  Unfortunately, I am very analytical of movies, so if they aren't 
well-done, I rip them appart in my mind and don't enjoy them either.  I find 
that very few movies can match a novel for character development in an epic 
story, but those that come closest are cherished by me, for the visual aid, 
so to speak.  Again, this is just my reason, and it certainly doesn't stand 
for everyone who wants the movie.

                           Michael
"I have taken all knowledge to be my province." -Francis Bacon



>From: kuros@pgtv.net (kuros)
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
>Subject: Re: Amateur Movies and such things
>Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 12:35:37 -0700
>
>Using someone else's world for even non profit films is theft. That
>author/artist/taraxian hydrosponge worked hard to create it, and thats how
>they make their living. Wether or not you make a profit has nothing to do
>with it. You are profiting (not monetarily, but there are many forms of
>profit, such as fame, etc) by something that is not yours. This is known as
>theft. I myself am a programmer. If someone were to take the source code 
>for
>one of my programs, and use it to develop something that becomes famous,
>even if they don't make any money from it, then they have still
>gained -something- from my work, and that is theft. -I- worked hard to
>create it, and the idea that someone has no problems with taking my work
>without my permission, and gaining something from it, is very irritating. 
>If
>you want to make films so bad, make up your own world.
>
>On another note, why are people so anxious for novels to be made into
>movies? I cannot remember a movie I have seen that has been better than a
>book. Granted, the visual effects can be cool, but when I read a book, the
>words form pictures in my head, complete with effects that put ILM to 
>shame.
>For instance, I just went and saw Planet of the Apes. I hated it. I'm not
>going to say what it was, as I doubt everyone here has seen it, but the
>novel (the original, not the novelization of this new piece of- err, movie)
>was much better. This is not to say that all movies based on books are bad,
>just that they are not (IMHO) as good as books.
>
>Kuros
>
>"No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife between the shoulder blades will
>seriously cramp his style." -Vlad Taltos
>
>(Hey, everyone else has a quote. Guess I need one too. =)
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Michael Renn" <troubador7@hotmail.com>
>To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
>Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2001 9:29 AM
>Subject: Re: Amateur Movies and such things
>
>
> > I agree with Matt here.  The idea of making a book into a movie is to
>create
> > a medium that old fans and new fans can enjoy.  This in turn is to
> > proliferate quality story-telling on the part of authors such as Ray.
>It's
> > their ideas, and furthermore, it's their livelihood.  To take that 
>without
> > remuneration, even for the "good of the fans" is not only unethical, but
> > prohibitive to the continuation of our favorite author doing what he 
>does
> > best in a comfortable and properly-paid environment.  Artists have 
>enough
> > problems without fans doing things like that.
> >
> >                            Michael
> > "I have taken all knowledge to be my province." -Francis Bacon
> >
> >
> >
> > >From: Matt Sainsbury <lord_al_rashid@yahoo.com>
> > >Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > >To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > >Subject: Re: Amateur Movies and such things
> > >Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 18:19:06 -0700 (PDT)
> > >
> > >Non - profit or not, it's still Ray's interlectual
> > >property, and any use if it without his permission is
> > >unethical. *shrugs* if I ever get to be an author I
> > >wouldn't allow it. Just putting my two cents in.
> > >
> > >Matt
> > >
> > >
> > >=====
> > >~The longer you stand still the more likely it is you will be struck by
> > >lightning~
> > >
> > >__________________________________________________
> > >Do You Yahoo!?
> > >Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! 
>Messenger
> > >http://phonecard.yahoo.com/
> > >
> >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at 
>http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
> >
> >
>


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp



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From: "Michael Renn" <troubador7@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Stupid Honored Enemy Question
Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 11:40:11 -0700
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From: "Michael Renn" <troubador7@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Stupid Honored Enemy Question
Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 11:40:11 -0700
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I wish you guys (although I think I did the same thing when I joined) would 
stop saying you're asking a stupid question.  I mean, even if the wquestion 
has been answered, if you honestly missed it, big deal.  That's part of what 
this list is for (I think): to answer questions, so just ask the question 
and stop saying you're stupid.  I mean, you knew to check the FAQ first, so 
you at least get a few gold stars for that :-)  Just be nicer to yourself!

                           Michael
"I have taken all knowledge to be my province." -Francis Bacon



>From: "Darren McClung" <d@dwmc.org>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
>Subject: Stupid Honored Enemy Question
>Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 13:11:21 -0500
>
>Doubtless this has been posted before, and I've just missed it.  The FAQ
>though is hopelessly out of date...so:
>
>When can we expect Honored Enemy in the States.  Amazon.com doesn't even
>have a listing for it, so my assumption would be "not soon."
>
>Take care,
>
>Darren
>


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp



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From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
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Subject: Poul Anderson
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 11:45:11 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: fEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Poul Anderson
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Just got the word we lost Poul last night, about midnight.

I've known him for twenty-one years, and his son-in-law Greg Bear a few 
years longer.

He was one of my favorite authors when I was a lad, and a pleasant 
dinner companion when I was older.

His wit, charm, and generosity are missed.

We are all poorer.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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From: "Darren McClung" <d@dwmc.org>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
References: <F2366trUhmuBSXu1u0o0000c6d8@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Stupid Honored Enemy Question
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 13:56:48 -0500
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Darren McClung" <d@dwmc.org>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Stupid Honored Enemy Question
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 13:56:48 -0500
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Okay.....

I have though, been on the list since the first of 97, so I don't think I
qualify as a newbie anymore.  :)

Darren

> I wish you guys (although I think I did the same thing when I joined) would
> stop saying you're asking a stupid question.  I mean, even if the wquestion
> has been answered, if you honestly missed it, big deal.  That's part of what
> this list is for (I think): to answer questions, so just ask the question
> and stop saying you're stupid.  I mean, you knew to check the FAQ first, so
> you at least get a few gold stars for that :-)  Just be nicer to yourself!
>
>                            Michael
> "I have taken all knowledge to be my province." -Francis Bacon
>
>
>
> >From: "Darren McClung" <d@dwmc.org>
> >Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> >To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
> >Subject: Stupid Honored Enemy Question
> >Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 13:11:21 -0500
> >
> >Doubtless this has been posted before, and I've just missed it.  The FAQ
> >though is hopelessly out of date...so:
> >
> >When can we expect Honored Enemy in the States.  Amazon.com doesn't even
> >have a listing for it, so my assumption would be "not soon."
> >
> >Take care,
> >
> >Darren
> >
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>



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To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
References: <200108011846.f71Ik5I13626@smtp1.san.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Poul Anderson
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 14:44:24 -0500
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Poul Anderson
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 14:44:24 -0500
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

    I had no idea he passed away this morning, nothing has been said
on any of the news lines I follow.  I sincerely hope his passing was
peaceful.  I wish that I had the opportunity to meet the man.

-James

> Just got the word we lost Poul last night, about midnight.
>
> I've known him for twenty-one years, and his son-in-law Greg Bear a few
> years longer.
>
> He was one of my favorite authors when I was a lad, and a pleasant
> dinner companion when I was older.
>
> His wit, charm, and generosity are missed.
>
> We are all poorer.
>
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
>
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
> stupidity.
>



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From: "DPont" <d.pontolaeng@chello.nl>
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Subject: Faerie Tale
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*** EOOH ***
From: "DPont" <d.pontolaeng@chello.nl>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Faerie Tale
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 22:24:19 +0200
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Hello!!

I am reading the book Fearie Tale and I just read that Mark cam
back. He tells Phil about the secret society 'de Magi' (don't know if
that's the English name for it) and that it was first called
Illuminati.
I was wondering if someone has noticed that the name Illuminati is
also the name of the secret society in the movie Tomb Raider
I thought it was kinda funny

Tot Dob!!!
Stefanie

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From: "Michael Renn" <troubador7@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re: Faerie Tale
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The Illuminati is a common "bad guy" or sometimes nuetral third player in 
modern fantasy or sci-fi.  I wouldn't swear to it, but I think that at some 
time in the middle ages or shortly thereafter, there was a secret society 
known as the Illuminati and it is rumored that they persist even to this 
day, making the Masons a laughable attempt at secrecy.  There is a trilogy 
of books named after them that I have not yet read, but have heard good 
things about.

                           Michael
"I have taken all knowledge to be my province." -Francis Bacon



>From: "DPont" <d.pontolaeng@chello.nl>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
>Subject: Faerie Tale
>Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 22:24:19 +0200
>
>Hello!!
>
>I am reading the book Fearie Tale and I just read that Mark cam back. He 
>tells Phil about the secret society 'de Magi' (don't know if that's the 
>English name for it) and that it was first called Illuminati.
>I was wondering if someone has noticed that the name Illuminati is also the 
>name of the secret society in the movie Tomb Raider
>I thought it was kinda funny
>
>Tot Dob!!!
>Stefanie


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp



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On Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 10:24:19PM +0200, DPont wrote:
> Hello!!
> 
> I am reading the book Fearie Tale and I just read that Mark cam back. He tells Phil about the secret society 'de Magi' (don't know if that's the English name for it) and that it was first called Illuminati.
> I was wondering if someone has noticed that the name Illuminati is also the name of the secret society in the movie Tomb Raider
> I thought it was kinda funny

[Please wrap lines at 72 columns or less. It makes life easier for the
rest of us.]

The Illuminati is everybodys favourite secret conspiracy. (Slightly
ahead of the Templars and the Freemasons.) It has been used in many
places and by many people.
I don't know exactly how far back the Illuminati stories go but a lot
of the current popularity can definitely be traced to the
not-entirely-serious novel _The Illuminatus! Trilogy_ by Robert Shea
and Robert Anton Wilson.  (Originally published in three parts as _The
Eye in the Pyramid_, _The Golden Apple_ and _Leviathan_) 
This was published in 1975 and therefore precedes both _Faerie Tale_
and Tomb Raider by several years.


-- 
<Insert your favourite quote here.>
Erik Trulsson
ertr1013@student.uu.se



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From: Tim Nicholas <tim@nicholas.net.nz>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Faerie Tale
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Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 09:03:32 +1200
From: Tim Nicholas <tim@nicholas.net.nz>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Faerie Tale
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>From Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary (1913) [web1913]:

  Illuminati \Il*lu`mi*na"ti\, n. pl. [L. illuminatus. See
     {Illuminate}, v. t., and cf. {Illuminee}.]
     Literally, those who are enlightened; -- variously applied as
     follows:
  
     1. (Eccl.) Persons in the early church who had received
        baptism; in which ceremony a lighted taper was given them,
        as a symbol of the spiritual illumination they has
        received by that sacrament.
  
     2. (Eccl. Hist.) Members of a sect which sprung up in Spain
        about the year 1575. Their principal doctrine was, that,
        by means of prayer, they had attained to so perfect a
        state as to have no need of ordinances, sacraments, good
        works, etc.; -- called also {Alumbrados},
        {Perfectibilists}, etc.
  
     3. (Mod. Hist.) Members of certain associations in Modern
        Europe, who combined to promote social reforms, by which
        they expected to raise men and society to perfection, esp.
        of one originated in 1776 by Adam Weishaupt, professor of
        canon law at Ingolstadt, which spread rapidly for a time,
        but ceased after a few years.
  
     4. Also applied to:
        (a) An obscure sect of French Familists;
        (b) The Hesychasts, Mystics, and Quietists;
        (c) The Rosicrucians.
  
     5. Any persons who profess special spiritual or intellectual
        enlightenment.

  
On Wed, Aug 01, 2001 at 10:24:19PM +0200, DPont wrote:
> Hello!!
> 
> I am reading the book Fearie Tale and I just read that Mark cam back. He tells Phil about the secret society 'de Magi' (don't know if that's the English name for it) and that it was first called Illuminati.
> I was wondering if someone has noticed that the name Illuminati is also the name of the secret society in the movie Tomb Raider
> I thought it was kinda funny
> 
> Tot Dob!!!
> Stefanie

-- 
Tim Nicholas                          ||                      Cilix
Email: tim@nicholas.net.nz            ||              ICQ# 15869961
http://tim.nicholas.net.nz/           ||                Dunedin, NZ
Cell phone# +64 21 113 0399           || Home phone# +64 3 471 8415



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Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 07:07:14 +1000 (EST)
From: David Smith - NT Interoperability Engineer <David.M.Smith@Sun.COM>
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Ahhh.... my pet book shop. Ralf had better have saved me a copy or there's going 
to be trouble!!! :)

-- David Smith

» woo hoo, it doesn't get much better.I am on holidays for a week and I dropped 
» into Infinitas Bookshop today (I didn't know where it was, I was on my way 
» back to pick up the car from a car park and noticed it there) and they got 
» their shipment of Honoured enemy this morning. Apparantly, I got his 6th copy.
» 
» For those interested the address is 
» 
» 	Infinitas Bookshop Pty Ltd
» 	Shop 5 Horwood Place
» 	Paramatta NSW 2150
» 	 Ph (02) 9633 5682
» 	Fax (02) 9891 9264
» 	infinitas@bigpond.com
» 
» It cost me AUS$39.95.
» 
» 
» alan.
» --



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From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Stupid Honored Enemy Question
Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 17:31:02 -0400
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Subject: Re: Stupid Honored Enemy Question
Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 17:31:02 -0400
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I think this more or less what Ray said: it depends on publisher negotions. 
It will either get handled quickly, in which case we will see it next year 
in the states. Or, the negotions could falter and will take like 2-3 years, 
in which case we will see it in about 5 years Stateside.

Adieu

Jimmy


>From: "Michael Renn" <troubador7@hotmail.com>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
>Subject: Re: Stupid Honored Enemy Question
>Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 11:40:11 -0700
>
>I wish you guys (although I think I did the same thing when I joined) would
>stop saying you're asking a stupid question.  I mean, even if the wquestion
>has been answered, if you honestly missed it, big deal.  That's part of 
>what
>this list is for (I think): to answer questions, so just ask the question
>and stop saying you're stupid.  I mean, you knew to check the FAQ first, so
>you at least get a few gold stars for that :-)  Just be nicer to yourself!
>
>                           Michael
>"I have taken all knowledge to be my province." -Francis Bacon
>
>
>
>>From: "Darren McClung" <d@dwmc.org>
>>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>>To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
>>Subject: Stupid Honored Enemy Question
>>Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 13:11:21 -0500
>>
>>Doubtless this has been posted before, and I've just missed it.  The FAQ
>>though is hopelessly out of date...so:
>>
>>When can we expect Honored Enemy in the States.  Amazon.com doesn't even
>>have a listing for it, so my assumption would be "not soon."
>>
>>Take care,
>>
>>Darren
>>
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp



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In-Reply-To: <20010801224533.A7113@student.uu.se>
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Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 23:32:33 +0200
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Martin Andersen <fan2met@online.no>
Subject: Re: Amateur Movies... + Norwegian authors
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Would it be allowed to make an animated movie, like the one Dragonmount.com 
is doing of the prologue to the first Wheel of Time-book? And, Ray, have 
you read any norwegian authors, like Ibsen? If yes, what did you think of 
the books?

Thanks,

Martin
----------
Si libet, licet.



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From: "David Christensen" <damc84@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re: Depths of the Black Efreet (Spoiler- I think)
Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 23:11:21 
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That strikes me as sad! All the work that the characters in the books do 
crumbles as the world is plunged into a dark age!

So, are the Depths some sort of magical wasteland a la the Sunken Lands, a 
plateau or a forest? Its kind of hard to discern what it is exactly when 
reading the map key.




>From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: Re: Depths of the Black Efreet (Spoiler- I think)
>Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 13:50:45 -0700
>
>
>On Tuesday, July 31, 2001, at 04:07 PM, David Christensen wrote:
>
>>Hey Ray, would you happen to know what occured in the Jal-Pur desert
>>during the time of the Great Upheaval (the final riftwar)? Comparing
>>the maps of Triagia from the time of the Midkemia RPG and the books, I
>>see only two differences, the first being the obvious (the Sunken
>>Lands). Then there is the Depths of the Black Efreet, a gaping hole in
>>the middle of Kesh... what is it?
>>
>
>There are things I can only hint at.
>
>Actually, there are more changes than just those two. The Green Reaches
>and the other areas along the Keshian/Kingdom border became so
>impassable that except by sea, all commerce between Kesh and the Kingdom
>was cut off for over two hundred years.   As the Far Coast was reduced
>to nearly uninhabited, Krondor became pretty much "it" in the West, and
>Durbin became essentially a self-governing city, though it continued to
>pay lip service to being part of the Empire.
>
>As for the Depths, the name should give you a hint as to why no one goes
>there willingly.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
>stupidity.
>


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp



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From: Allan Mills <milla@css.com.au>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" (FEISTFANS-L) <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Amateur Movies and such things
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 09:18:05 +1000 
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*** EOOH ***
From: Allan Mills <milla@css.com.au>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" (FEISTFANS-L) <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Amateur Movies and such things
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 09:18:05 +1000 
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: kuros@pgtv.net [mailto:kuros@pgtv.net]
> Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2001 5:36 AM
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Subject: Re: Amateur Movies and such things
> 
> On another note, why are people so anxious for novels to be made into
> movies? I cannot remember a movie I have seen that has been 
> better than a
> book. 
> 
> Kuros
> 

 The only exception I can think of is the Hunt for the Red October. I
personally thought the movie was better than the book. The book had the USA
characters far too competant, they worked out how to detect the submarine
despite it's stealth drive and that the Captain was trying to defect much
too easily I thought. The movie had much better suspense IMHO.

 Allan



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From: Allan Mills <milla@css.com.au>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" (FEISTFANS-L) <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Faerie Tale
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 09:23:35 +1000 
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From: Allan Mills <milla@css.com.au>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" (FEISTFANS-L) <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Faerie Tale
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 09:23:35 +1000 
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 They also appeared in the computer game Deus Ex (excellent game BTW). They
indicated in that game that they were in charge of the Knights Templar who
were fraudulently arrested and disbanded. The theory being that such a
powerful organisation would not have been dismantled so easily and that the
Illuminati probably just stayed out of sight after that to stop other
attacks against them.

 Allan

-----Original Message-----
>From: DPont [mailto:d.pontolaeng@chello.nl]
>Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2001 6:24 AM
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: Faerie Tale
>
>
>Hello!!
>
>I am reading the book Fearie Tale and I just read that Mark cam back. He
>tells Phil about the secret society 'de Magi' (don't know if that's the
>English name for it) and that it was first called Illuminati.
>I was wondering if someone has noticed that the name Illuminati is also the
>name of the secret society in the movie Tomb Raider
>I thought it was kinda funny
>
>Tot Dob!!!
>Stefanie
>


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From: psihawk@nac.net
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: FAQ being out of date....
Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 23:35:40 GMT
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James Young writes:

>     I sent an e-mail to Larry about updating the FAQs, since it is
> rather out of date on a lot of things, however I have yet to get a
> response (I sent it a few days ago now).  I figure he is busy with
> his real life again.  Given that, I figure he'll get around to it
> when he can.  I offered to help as needed to write some code, though
> I tend to be a lot less flashy than the rest of you seem to prefer.

Actually... (First time checking e-mail in about a week)
I am away on vacation...in California... And pretty much 
without internet access except for a few days here at my sisters...

I thought I emailed James back about working on it.....

Anyway... all shall be taken care of soon...

Larry/PsiHawk



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Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 16:57:23 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Wednesday, August 1, 2001, at 02:32 PM, Martin Andersen wrote:

> Would it be allowed to make an animated movie, like the one 
> Dragonmount.com is doing of the prologue to the first Wheel of 
> Time-book? And, Ray, have you read any norwegian authors, like Ibsen? 
> If yes, what did you think of the books?
>


Ibsen is a classic.  Doll's House is a standard on the American stage, 
done regularly.

As for animation, it's still an infringement.  If someone is doing a bit 
of WoT without Jim Rigney's permission, lawyers will probably get 
involved.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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From: "A Irving" <s355156@student.uq.edu.au>
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Subject: Paul anderson
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I recieved this on the Katharine Kerr mailing list and thought a few of you 
may be interested.

> From sff.net.
>
>
>***
>Greg Bear asked me to post this in my own newsgroup; I'm sure he would want
>it posted in here as well:
>****************
>Friends,
>
>
>Poul Anderson passed away last night, July 31-August 1, around midnight.
>  During the afternoon, he received hundreds of emails and messages from
>friends and readers and fellow writers, which Astrid and Karen printed out
>and read to him. He died knowing (and how!) that he was loved and valued,
>and hearing how much his work had entertained and moved so many. Though
>he was weak at the end, there was no loss of mental capacity, and my last
>conversation with him was slow but sparkling with the curiosity and 
>deep-seated
>gentlemanliness that Poul always had, and which was, I think, built into
>his whole body and being.
>
>
>He is survived by his wife and writing partner, Karen, his daughter Astrid,
>brother John, grandchildren Erik and Alexandra, nieces Janet and Cathy,
>and by millions of readers.
CIAO,
     Aaron

http://www.hallofworlds.net/kerr/main.php
http://www.nightshadow.co.uk



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Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 18:00:58 -0700
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From: Carl Dershem <dershem@home.com>
Organization: Project Selene
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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 18:00:58 -0700
From: Carl Dershem <dershem@home.com>
Organization: Project Selene
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Poul Anderson
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Raymond Feist wrote:
> 
> Just got the word we lost Poul last night, about midnight.
> 
> I've known him for twenty-one years, and his son-in-law Greg Bear a few
> years longer.
> 
> He was one of my favorite authors when I was a lad, and a pleasant
> dinner companion when I was older.
> 
> His wit, charm, and generosity are missed.
> 
> We are all poorer.

Well, bugger.

I had the honor to spend a week with Poul and Karen about ten years ago,
and he was one of the most charming, intelligent, personable and
interesting people I've ever met.  He turned me on to a lot of
fascinating ideas and ways of expressing them, and was one of the first
to encourage my writing.

He'll be sorely missed.

cd



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From: "greg batman" <pollux@swirve.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 20:48:02 -0500
Subject: Re: Stupid Honored Enemy Question
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*** EOOH ***
From: "greg batman" <pollux@swirve.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 20:48:02 -0500
Subject: Re: Stupid Honored Enemy Question
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> Okay.....
> 
> I have though, been on the list since the first of 97, so I don't think I
> qualify as a newbie anymore.  :)
> 
> Darren

i first joined this list in 95, then i had a very long hiatus.  i
think i need to go back and read the faq.  although it is really funny
to see the same old arguments creep up.  (movies and the like) except
back then, the major topic of conversation was pc vs. mac, and
arguments over operating systems.


-- 

_______________________________________________
Get Free Email at Swirve.com, http://www.swirve.com



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Subject: Re: Stupid Honored Enemy Question
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Stupid Honored Enemy Question
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 21:01:56 -0500
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We banned both of 'em too.

> i first joined this list in 95, then i had a very long hiatus.  i
>think i need to go back and read the faq.  although it is really
>funny to see the same old arguments creep up.  (movies and the like)
>except back then, the major topic of conversation was pc vs. mac,
>and arguments over operating systems.
>



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 18:06:41 +0930
From: Peter Cuthell <petbcuth@dingoblue.net.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Aussie Release
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Just walked into target and there it was with a nice little 25% discount
on a new hardback what a joy.


David Smith - NT Interoperability Engineer wrote:
> 
> Ahhh.... my pet book shop. Ralf had better have saved me a copy or there's going
> to be trouble!!! :)
> 
> -- David Smith
> 
> » woo hoo, it doesn't get much better.I am on holidays for a week and I dropped
> » into Infinitas Bookshop today (I didn't know where it was, I was on my way
> » back to pick up the car from a car park and noticed it there) and they got
> » their shipment of Honoured enemy this morning. Apparantly, I got his 6th copy.
> »
> » For those interested the address is
> »
> »       Infinitas Bookshop Pty Ltd
> »       Shop 5 Horwood Place
> »       Paramatta NSW 2150
> »        Ph (02) 9633 5682
> »       Fax (02) 9891 9264
> »       infinitas@bigpond.com
> »
> » It cost me AUS$39.95.
> »
> »
> » alan.
> » --



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From: "Alvaro Santos" <weretraira@hotmail.com>
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Subject: OT: What is needed to make a good movie...
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Subject: OT: What is needed to make a good movie...
Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 10:08:11 -0300
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Ray, still speaking of movie-making, when we read in newspaper "That movie 
had a budget of $100 Million", this is the total amount of money needed to 
run it? Or does it indirect costs to the producers to make it?

"Let us so live that when we come to die even the undertaker will be sorry."
Mark Twain


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp



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From: "Michael Gibson" <gibfish@gibbyco.freeserve.co.uk>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: HE: Irony
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 14:54:39 +0100
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From: "Michael Gibson" <gibfish@gibbyco.freeserve.co.uk>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: HE: Irony
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 14:54:39 +0100
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This is a good example of irony.  After hearing all we have about the delayed US
release date of HE, guess who has just lent me his version of the book.  An
american ex-pat. ;-}  Cheers rip.  I've only spilt a *little* port on it so
far...  ;)

Mike,
Gibfish of the West.
                                          Check out my forums at:
"If a problem appears simple, then it     http://www.tonrae.co.uk/forums/
probably hasn't been thought through."



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Subject: RE: Stupid Honored Enemy Question
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 08:18:44 -0700
Thread-Topic: Stupid Honored Enemy Question
Thread-Index: AcEa9hB/uxaBKywhQqSVuJiAodHnGgAb/ALQ
From: "Russell Teeter" <rteeter@sitelite.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Yes, and the arguments were over sooner since there were less people on
the list.  Now a days, everyone has to get there say so in otherwise we
wouldn't get enough traffic on the list.  And just like in 95, the one
liners still persist no matter how hard you try to get rid of them :-)

Russell Teeter

P.S. Ray, by chance have you taken your kids to Legoland and if so, do
you think it is appropriate for 4 year olds?

-----Original Message-----
>From: greg batman [mailto:pollux@swirve.com]
>Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2001 6:48 PM
>To: FEISTFANS-L
>Subject: Re: Stupid Honored Enemy Question
>
>
>i first joined this list in 95, then i had a very long hiatus.  i think
>i need to go back and read the faq.  although it is really funny to see
>the same old arguments creep up.  (movies and the like) except back
>then, the major topic of conversation was pc vs. mac, and arguments over
>operating systems.

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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 09:33:23 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT: What is needed to make a good movie...
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On Thursday, August 2, 2001, at 06:08 AM, Alvaro Santos wrote:

> Ray, still speaking of movie-making, when we read in newspaper "That 
> movie had a budget of $100 Million", this is the total amount of money 
> needed to run it? Or does it indirect costs to the producers to make it?

I'm not sure what you're asking.   Movies break down into three general 
areas, pre-production, production, and post-production.  When they talk 
about a film costing $100 million, that covers all three.  There are 
additional costs beyond that, such as promotion and publicity, fees for 
distribution, etc.  I don't have a clue what you mean by "does it 
indirect cost to the producers to make it?"

>

Best, R.E.F.

----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.

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From: "Alvaro Santos" <weretraira@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT: What is needed to make a good movie...
Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 14:21:28 -0300
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From: "Alvaro Santos" <weretraira@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT: What is needed to make a good movie...
Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 14:21:28 -0300
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Thanks Ray!

Nevermind the rest, I was distracted when I sent the mail and forgot to 
delete that part of the message. I was forming a question but droped it and 
forgot to delete. Shame on me! <:)

What I wanted to know was exactly what you answered me! Thanks again!

Beers,
Alvaro

"Let us so live that when we come to die even the undertaker will be sorry."
Mark Twain



>From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
>Subject: Re: OT: What is needed to make a good movie...
>Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 09:33:23 -0700
>
>
>On Thursday, August 2, 2001, at 06:08 AM, Alvaro Santos wrote:
>
>>Ray, still speaking of movie-making, when we read in newspaper "That
>>movie had a budget of $100 Million", this is the total amount of money
>>needed to run it? Or does it indirect costs to the producers to make it?
>
>I'm not sure what you're asking.   Movies break down into three general
>areas, pre-production, production, and post-production.  When they talk
>about a film costing $100 million, that covers all three.  There are
>additional costs beyond that, such as promotion and publicity, fees for
>distribution, etc.  I don't have a clue what you mean by "does it
>indirect cost to the producers to make it?"
>
>>
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
>stupidity.


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp



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From: "Scott Hendrick" <SHendrick@cqg.com>
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Subject: Planets in Feist books?
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 13:01:37 -0600
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Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: "Scott Hendrick" <SHendrick@cqg.com>
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Subject: Planets in Feist books?
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 13:01:37 -0600
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I've been thinking about the different planets that are visited in Ray's
various books. How many are there? I can think of just 4 right offhand:

1) Midkemia
2) Kelewan
3) Suauar planet?
4) Oracle planet?

Are there more?

Thanks,
Scott Hendrick



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From: "Chris Smith" <cjs94@zepler.org.uk>
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Subject: Re: Planets in Feist books?
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From: "Chris Smith" <cjs94@zepler.org.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 20:29:23 +0100
Subject: Re: Planets in Feist books?
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On 2 Aug 2001, at 13:01, Scott Hendrick wrote:

> I've been thinking about the different planets that are visited in Ray's
> various books. How many are there? I can think of just 4 right offhand:
> 
> 1) Midkemia
> 2) Kelewan
> 3) Suauar planet?
> 4) Oracle planet?
> 
> Are there more?

Well, for a start there are the various planets that were visited 
whilst travelling the Hall Of Worlds. I can't be more specific 
unfortunately, I don't have the books to hand.

Chris
--
Chris Smith
Work: chris.smith@tfbplc.co.uk     Home: cjs94@zepler.org.uk
PGP Key available from public key servers; Key ID 0xA9DA8E79
"Veni, vidi, velcro." - "I came, I saw, I stuck around."



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From: Cliff Nadler <cnadler@colltech.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Planets in Feist books?
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 14:45:23 -0500 (CDT)
From: Cliff Nadler <cnadler@colltech.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Planets in Feist books?
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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- Honest John's (sort of)
- the poisonous planet Pug, Macros, Tomas, and Ryath travelled through to
  short their trip in the Hall of Worlds
- The serene planet that they went through
- The City Forever (sort of)
- The planet where Ganima is trapped in BaK (can't remember the name)

On Thu, 2 Aug 2001, Scott Hendrick wrote:

> I've been thinking about the different planets that are visited in Ray's
> various books. How many are there? I can think of just 4 right offhand:
>
> 1) Midkemia
> 2) Kelewan
> 3) Suauar planet?
> 4) Oracle planet?
>
> Are there more?

-- 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Cliff Nadler		Collective Technologies, Inc.
cnadler@colltech.com	(512)-263-5500
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
To win, you must treat a pressure situation as an opportunity to succeed,
not an opportunity to fail			Gardner Dickinson



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From: Larry Scroggins <falling_98@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Planets in Feist books?
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 13:21:58 -0700 (PDT)
From: Larry Scroggins <falling_98@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Planets in Feist books?
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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 Isn't there another planet that Pug and Miranda vacation on, or is that just a different part of Midkemia?
  Cliff Nadler <cnadler@colltech.com> wrote:
> - Honest John's (sort of)
>- the poisonous planet Pug, Macros, Tomas, and Ryath travelled through to
>short their trip in the Hall of Worlds
>- The serene planet that they went through
>- The City Forever (sort of)
>- The planet where Ganima is trapped in BaK (can't remember the name)
>
>On Thu, 2 Aug 2001, Scott Hendrick wrote:
>
>> I've been thinking about the different planets that are visited in Ray's
>> various books. How many are there? I can think of just 4 right offhand:
>>
>> 1) Midkemia
>> 2) Kelewan
>> 3) Suauar planet?
>> 4) Oracle planet?
>>
>> Are there more?
>
>-- 
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Cliff Nadler Collective Technologies, Inc.
>cnadler@colltech.com (512)-263-5500
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
>To win, you must treat a pressure situation as an opportunity to succeed,
>not an opportunity to fail Gardner Dickinson
>

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Larry Scroggins


---------------------------------
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From: "greg batman" <pollux@swirve.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 15:40:20 -0500
Subject: Re: Planets in Feist books?
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From: "greg batman" <pollux@swirve.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 15:40:20 -0500
Subject: Re: Planets in Feist books?
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>  Isn't there another planet that Pug and Miranda vacation on, or is that just a different part of Midkemia?
>   Cliff Nadler <cnadler@colltech.com> wrote: - Honest John's (sort of)
> - the poisonous planet Pug, Macros, Tomas, and Ryath travelled through to
> short their trip in the Hall of Worlds
> - The serene planet that they went through
> - The City Forever (sort of)
> - The planet where Ganima is trapped in BaK (can't remember the name)
> > 1) Midkemia
> > 2) Kelewan
> > 3) Suauar planet?
> > 4) Oracle planet?

i took the planet pug and miranda prowled around on to be a different one.  
also, when speaking of planets in general, there are all the planets the valheru destroyed, when they spoke of all the races that were wiped out by the V.

-- 

_______________________________________________
Get Free Email at Swirve.com, http://www.swirve.com



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From: Robert S Evans <roevans@linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us>
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The planet in which the unnameable one is buried under a mountain.

Bob



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From: "Michael Renn" <troubador7@hotmail.com>
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Well, stop me if I'm wrong, but I got the distinct impression that the Hall 
of the Worlds related more to Planes of Existance rather than planets.  More 
of a galactic gateway.  I reference an AD&D concept only for framework, but 
I imagined it more like Crystal Spheres, where there is a small universe in 
each sphere with its own multitude of stars and solar systems and these make 
up THE Universe.  So technically, if I'm not hallucinating, there are vast 
numbers of planets in an equally vast number of planes.  Of course, the 
question could be just asking how many are referenced in the books/games/ 
other related materials, in which case I am once again showing what a moron 
I can be.  :-)

                           Michael

"I have taken all knowledge to be my province." -Francis Bacon



>From: Robert S Evans <roevans@linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
>Subject: Re: Planets in Feist books?
>Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 14:04:11 -0700 (PDT)
>
>The planet in which the unnameable one is buried under a mountain.
>
>Bob
>


_________________________________________________________________
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Subject: Re: Aussie Release
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*** EOOH ***
From: Brad_A_Krahe@allegiance.com.au
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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 09:08:53 +1000
Subject: Re: Aussie Release
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Dymocks had the hard cover for $27.00 Oz, how has the price been in other
parts of OZ ?

Regards,

Brad Krahe
SAP Business & Support Consultant
Allegiance Systems




Peter Cuthell <petbcuth@dingoblue.net.au> on 02/08/2001 18:36:41

Please respond to FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>
>To:   FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
>cc:    (bcc: Brad A Krahe/HCS)
>Subject:  Re: Aussie Release
>
>Just walked into target and there it was with a nice little 25% discount
>on a new hardback what a joy.
>
>
>David Smith - NT Interoperability Engineer wrote:
>>
>> Ahhh.... my pet book shop. Ralf had better have saved me a copy or there's going
>> to be trouble!!! :)
>>
>> -- David Smith
>>
>> 

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From: "Cameron Duncan" <cduncan@amadeus.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Aussie Release
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 09:50:54 +1000
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From: "Cameron Duncan" <cduncan@amadeus.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Aussie Release
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 09:50:54 +1000
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Got mine for $32.95 AUD at Angus & Robertson Wintergarden store 
in Brisbane yesterday.
The RRP was $45.00 AUD
Maybe I should have gone to Dymocks :(

Cameron

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of
> Brad_A_Krahe@allegiance.com.au
> Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 9:09
> To: FEISTFANS-L
> Subject: Re: Aussie Release
> 
> 
> Dymocks had the hard cover for $27.00 Oz, how has the price been in other
> parts of OZ ?
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Brad Krahe
> SAP Business & Support Consultant
> Allegiance Systems
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Peter Cuthell <petbcuth@dingoblue.net.au> on 02/08/2001 18:36:41
> 
> Please respond to FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> 
> To:   FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
> cc:    (bcc: Brad A Krahe/HCS)
> Subject:  Re: Aussie Release
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just walked into target and there it was with a nice little 25% discount
> on a new hardback what a joy.
> 
> 
> David Smith - NT Interoperability Engineer wrote:
> >
> > Ahhh.... my pet book shop. Ralf had better have saved me a copy or
> there's going
> > to be trouble!!! :)
> >
> > -- David Smith
> >
> > 



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Subject: RE: Aussie Release
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*** EOOH ***
From: Brad_A_Krahe@allegiance.com.au
X-Lotus-FromDomain: HCS
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 10:00:25 +1000
Subject: RE: Aussie Release
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

At dymocks (Melbourne) the tag said $45.00 reduced to $27 + change, the
last Feist book ToG was the same price as well.

Regards,

Brad Krahe
SAP Business & Support Consultant
Allegiance Systems




"Cameron Duncan" <cduncan@amadeus.com.au> on 03/08/2001 09:50:54

Please respond to FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

To:   FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
cc:    (bcc: Brad A Krahe/HCS)
Subject:  RE: Aussie Release




Got mine for $32.95 AUD at Angus & Robertson Wintergarden store
in Brisbane yesterday.
The RRP was $45.00 AUD
Maybe I should have gone to Dymocks :(

Cameron

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of
> Brad_A_Krahe@allegiance.com.au
> Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 9:09
> To: FEISTFANS-L
> Subject: Re: Aussie Release
>
>
> Dymocks had the hard cover for $27.00 Oz, how has the price been in other
> parts of OZ ?
>
> Regards,
>
> Brad Krahe
> SAP Business & Support Consultant
> Allegiance Systems
>
>
>
>
> Peter Cuthell <petbcuth@dingoblue.net.au> on 02/08/2001 18:36:41
>
> Please respond to FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>
> To:   FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
> cc:    (bcc: Brad A Krahe/HCS)
> Subject:  Re: Aussie Release
>
>
>
>
>
> Just walked into target and there it was with a nice little 25% discount
> on a new hardback what a joy.
>
>
> David Smith - NT Interoperability Engineer wrote:
> >
> > Ahhh.... my pet book shop. Ralf had better have saved me a copy or
> there's going
> > to be trouble!!! :)
> >
> > -- David Smith
> >
> >








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From: Roland Eckhardt <havago182@yahoo.com.au>
Subject: Query on Tsurani
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 10:13:06 +1000 (EST)
From: Roland Eckhardt <havago182@yahoo.com.au>
Subject: Query on Tsurani
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Dear Mr. Feist.
I am quite a new fan of your works. Having only read
Magician, Silverthorn and A Darkness at Sethanon.
While reading these I couldn't help but notice that a
lot of the Tsurani customs and so forth sound very
much Japanese. Such as the great honour code which
their warriors have and even the names such as Kasumi
sound almost Japanese.
I was just wondering if you could confirm this
speculation for me.
Thanx Roland.

====Change is the essence of being. Ultimately change comes from within.

_____________________________________________________________________________
http://messenger.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Messenger
- Voice chat, mail alerts, stock quotes and favourite news and lots more!



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References: <20010803001306.41813.qmail@web13707.mail.yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Query on Tsurani
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Magnus Arvidsson" <magnus.arvidsson75@telia.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Query on Tsurani
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 02:42:22 +0200
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Well, if I'n not completely wrong here I think that
Janny went to Korea right (and isn't she asian btw?)
and did some research on the matter. I also remember
listmembers asking Ray if he might have drawn inspiration
from James Clavell's Shogun and other works by the same author.
The honor code and the society is undoubtly asian, though..
I believe it's a meltingpot of asian cultures mixed with
Ray's and Janny's own fantasies. very good fantasies too! =)

ah, bye.

> Dear Mr. Feist.
> I am quite a new fan of your works. Having only read
> Magician, Silverthorn and A Darkness at Sethanon.
> While reading these I couldn't help but notice that a
> lot of the Tsurani customs and so forth sound very
> much Japanese. Such as the great honour code which
> their warriors have and even the names such as Kasumi
> sound almost Japanese.
> I was just wondering if you could confirm this
> speculation for me.
> Thanx Roland.



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 17:46:10 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Query on Tsurani
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Thursday, August 2, 2001, at 05:13 PM, Roland Eckhardt wrote:

> Dear Mr. Feist.
> I am quite a new fan of your works. Having only read
> Magician, Silverthorn and A Darkness at Sethanon.
> While reading these I couldn't help but notice that a
> lot of the Tsurani customs and so forth sound very
> much Japanese. Such as the great honour code which
> their warriors have and even the names such as Kasumi
> sound almost Japanese.
> I was just wondering if you could confirm this
> speculation for me.

Tsuranuanni is a culture based on non-European models, with elements of 
Japan between the Togagawa Shoganate and the Mijin Restoration, China 
during the Sung Dynasty, and with elements of Korean, Zulu, and Aztec 
cultures tossed in as well.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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From: "Rob Kolech" <rkolech1@hotmail.com>
To: "Feist Mailing List" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Amazon.co.uk has it!!
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 22:17:50 -0400
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From: "Rob Kolech" <rkolech1@hotmail.com>
To: "Feist Mailing List" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Amazon.co.uk has it!!
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 22:17:50 -0400
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I just got a notification that my copy of Honoured Enemy has just been
shipped so anyone who ordered the book from Amazon should be getting their
copy in the mail shortly.  :-)

Rob Kolech



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To: feistfans-l@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: OT: The Future of IP
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From: Matt Garson <mgarson@TheWorld.com>
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 23:51:04 -0400 (EDT)
To: feistfans-l@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: OT: The Future of IP
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Given the recent discussions of Napster, movie rights, and IP in
general, the following editorial on the futre of IP and the need for
an alternative to the arguments/models of both the corporation and
free information advocates might be of interest.

Note: I'm offering this link not to generate discussion *on the list*,
but rather because it might be of interest to certain list members. If
you have comments, direct them to the appropriate forum (the editorial
has a convenient section where you can discuss it; registration isn't
required).

The website: http://www.arstechnica.com

The article: http://arstechnica.com/wankerdesk/01q3/ip-ethics/ip-ethics-1.html

(watch the wrap)

-Matt



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From: Allan Mills <milla@css.com.au>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" (FEISTFANS-L) <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Aussie Release
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 14:02:44 +1000 
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*** EOOH ***
From: Allan Mills <milla@css.com.au>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" (FEISTFANS-L) <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Aussie Release
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 14:02:44 +1000 
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

 I just got mine from Dymocks in Canberra. RRP is $39.95, reduced to $29.95.

 One of my workmates (also a fan but not on this list) said she thinks they
reduce the price to comptete with the general stores like Kmart. She also
had no idea it was coming out either until I showed it to her.

 Allan

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Brad_A_Krahe@allegiance.com.au
> [mailto:Brad_A_Krahe@allegiance.com.au]
> Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 10:00 AM
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Subject: RE: Aussie Release
> 
> 
> At dymocks (Melbourne) the tag said $45.00 reduced to $27 + 
> change, the
> last Feist book ToG was the same price as well.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Brad Krahe
> SAP Business & Support Consultant
> Allegiance Systems
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Cameron Duncan" <cduncan@amadeus.com.au> on 03/08/2001 09:50:54
> 
> Please respond to FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> 
> To:   FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
> cc:    (bcc: Brad A Krahe/HCS)
> Subject:  RE: Aussie Release
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Got mine for $32.95 AUD at Angus & Robertson Wintergarden store
> in Brisbane yesterday.
> The RRP was $45.00 AUD
> Maybe I should have gone to Dymocks :(
> 
> Cameron
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of
> > Brad_A_Krahe@allegiance.com.au
> > Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 9:09
> > To: FEISTFANS-L
> > Subject: Re: Aussie Release
> >
> >
> > Dymocks had the hard cover for $27.00 Oz, how has the price 
> been in other
> > parts of OZ ?
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Brad Krahe
> > SAP Business & Support Consultant
> > Allegiance Systems
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Peter Cuthell <petbcuth@dingoblue.net.au> on 02/08/2001 18:36:41
> >
> > Please respond to FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> >
> > To:   FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
> > cc:    (bcc: Brad A Krahe/HCS)
> > Subject:  Re: Aussie Release
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Just walked into target and there it was with a nice little 
> 25% discount
> > on a new hardback what a joy.
> >
> >
> > David Smith - NT Interoperability Engineer wrote:
> > >
> > > Ahhh.... my pet book shop. Ralf had better have saved me a copy or
> > there's going
> > > to be trouble!!! :)
> > >
> > > -- David Smith
> > >
> > >
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 



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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Barker" <heechee@softhome.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Aussie Release
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 17:42:04 +1000
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----- Original Message -----
From: Allan Mills <milla@css.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 2:02 PM
Subject: RE: Aussie Release


> I just got mine from Dymocks in Canberra. RRP is $39.95, reduced to $29.95.
>
>  One of my workmates (also a fan but not on this list) said she thinks they
> reduce the price to comptete with the general stores like Kmart. She also
> had no idea it was coming out either until I showed it to her.
>
>  Allan

Which one? Belconnen, Civic, or another (I'm not sure where they are in
Tuggers or Woden)?

Cheers,
James



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From: "Michael Gibson" <gibfish@gibbyco.freeserve.co.uk>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Kelewan from Midkemia
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 13:00:03 +0100
Message-ID: <NGELLDNAEMBGGGHFAJPBOEHACHAA.gibfish@gibbyco.freeserve.co.uk>
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*** EOOH ***
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: "Michael Gibson" <gibfish@gibbyco.freeserve.co.uk>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Kelewan from Midkemia
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 13:00:03 +0100
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Hi Ray

Slight HE Spoiler:
-
-
-
--
-
-
--
-
-
--
-
-
--
-
-
--
-
-
--
-
-
--
-
-
-

I've just started reading Honoured Enemy - firstly, although I'm only 50 or so
pages in, I must say it is a great read - the tension and emotions really set it
off.

Secondly, when Asayaga and Tasemu are talking, after capturing the moredhel
gatehouse, Asayaga wonders if he can see Kelewan's star from Midkemia - can he,
or is it something you've never worked out?

Mike,
Gibfish of the West.
                                          Check out my forums at:
"If a problem appears simple, then it     http://www.tonrae.co.uk/forums/
probably hasn't been thought through."



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 08:24:32 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Kelewan from Midkemia
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Friday, August 3, 2001, at 05:00 AM, Michael Gibson wrote:

> Hi Ray
>
> Slight HE Spoiler:
> -
> -
> -
> --
> -
> -
> --
> -
> -
> --
> -
> -
> --
> -
> -
> --
> -
> -
> --
> -
> -
> --
> -
> -
> -
>
> I've just started reading Honoured Enemy - firstly, although I'm only 
> 50 or so
> pages in, I must say it is a great read - the tension and emotions 
> really set it
> off.
>
> Secondly, when Asayaga and Tasemu are talking, after capturing the 
> moredhel
> gatehouse, Asayaga wonders if he can see Kelewan's star from Midkemia - 
> can he,
> or is it something you've never worked out?


Something I never worked out, actually.  I have no idea where the two 
worlds are relative to one another.  Never seemed relevant.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Planets in Feist books?
Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 19:15:17 -0400
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 03 Aug 2001 23:15:17.0499 (UTC) FILETIME=[2888D4B0:01C11C72]
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Hey Scott, go read "Profit and the Grey Assassin." There are a good deal of 
worlds that Profit and the Grey Assassine run through via the Hall of the 
Worlds. I think you might still be able to ge a copy off of Joh's website 
at: www.Crydee.com

Adieu

Jimmy

>From: "Scott Hendrick" <SHendrick@cqg.com>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
>Subject: Planets in Feist books?
>Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 13:01:37 -0600
>
>I've been thinking about the different planets that are visited in Ray's
>various books. How many are there? I can think of just 4 right offhand:
>
>1) Midkemia
>2) Kelewan
>3) Suauar planet?
>4) Oracle planet?
>
>Are there more?
>
>Thanks,
>Scott Hendrick
>


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp



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References: <003801c11ac7$f1bb90e0$0100a8c0@mshome.net>
Subject: Re: Faerie Tale
Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 12:34:49 +0930
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From: "Sonia Tabe" <sonia@nt-tech.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Faerie Tale
Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 12:34:49 +0930
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Oh yes. I noticed that too! Only I read the Tomb Raider book whislt
reading Faerie Tale. I posted about that too =)
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: DPont 
>To: FEISTFANS-L 
>Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2001 5:54 AM
>Subject: Faerie Tale
>
>
>Hello!!
> 
>I am reading the book Fearie Tale and I just read that Mark cam back. He tells Phil about the secret society 'de Magi' (don't know if that's the English name for it) and that it was first called Illuminati.
>I was wondering if someone has noticed that the name Illuminati is also the name of the secret society in the movie Tomb Raider
>I thought it was kinda funny
> 
>Tot Dob!!!
>Stefanie

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From: IndianaJJr@aol.com
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 23:27:40 EDT
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 Thank you for backing me up on that with the don't start with "and" thing 
because I was on vacation and could not retaliate. I was going to say but I 
had to go on vacation is that if it is hard for you to read my sentences 
starting with and you must have told Ray not to start with "and" in his books 
because I didn't start Intel I read his books. Some of the sentences start 
with "and". ( No offense to ray if you took it wrongly)

-Chance-

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From: IndianaJJr@aol.com
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 23:28:54 EDT
Subject: Re: Depths of the Black Efreet (Spoiler- I think)
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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What is D&D

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From: IndianaJJr@aol.com
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 23:29:36 EDT
Subject: Re: Depths of the Black Efreet (Spoiler- I think)
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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Oh never mind Ii think I just got it is it Dungeons and Dragons....That was a 
good movie as well as a game 

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Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 23:32:06 EDT
Subject: Re: Amateur Movies and such things
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From: IndianaJJr@aol.com
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 23:32:06 EDT
Subject: Re: Amateur Movies and such things
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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I like acting me and my friends make movies with my video camera

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Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 23:38:38 EDT
Subject: Re: Amateur Movies and such things
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From: IndianaJJr@aol.com
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 23:38:38 EDT
Subject: Re: Amateur Movies and such things
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Hey ray since we are on this movie thing (well at least I am cause I was on 
vacation) I really want to win this lego movie making thing at Lego.com and I 
was wondering if I could make a movie about your books that would only be on 
lego.com (if I won) for a month. Please let me I have made StarWars movies at 
this moment i am making a Indiana Jones movie so please let me make a movie 
since it will never happen (most likely never happen) in a movie like to go 
in theaters.

-Chance-

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Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 23:39:50 EDT
Subject: Re: Amateur Movies and such things
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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*** EOOH ***
From: IndianaJJr@aol.com
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 23:39:50 EDT
Subject: Re: Amateur Movies and such things
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Oh by the way I had lucasarts.com's permission to make my Indiana and 
starwars movies

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From: "A Irving" <aignome@dingoblue.net.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
References: <CA256A9C.007F19D9.00@mailgate.allegiance.com.au>
Subject: Re: Aussie Release
Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 15:43:48 +1000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "A Irving" <aignome@dingoblue.net.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Aussie Release
Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 15:43:48 +1000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I bought it from dymocks today for $29.95, at Indooroopilly/ Brisbane. Also,
when I just got that email it showed an attachment,m but when I clicked on
the email it showed no file attached? Do you have a virus, or is it
something like a Digital ID that sends with your emails (those virtual cards
or whatever they are called)
----- Original Message -----
From: <Brad_A_Krahe@allegiance.com.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 9:08 AM
Subject: Re: Aussie Release


> Dymocks had the hard cover for $27.00 Oz, how has the price been in other
> parts of OZ ?
>
> Regards,
>
> Brad Krahe
> SAP Business & Support Consultant
> Allegiance Systems
>
>
>
>
> Peter Cuthell <petbcuth@dingoblue.net.au> on 02/08/2001 18:36:41
>
> Please respond to FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>
> To:   FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
> cc:    (bcc: Brad A Krahe/HCS)
> Subject:  Re: Aussie Release
>
>
>
>
>
> Just walked into target and there it was with a nice little 25% discount
> on a new hardback what a joy.
>
>
> David Smith - NT Interoperability Engineer wrote:
> >
> > Ahhh.... my pet book shop. Ralf had better have saved me a copy or
> there's going
> > to be trouble!!! :)
> >
> > -- David Smith
> >
> >

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----

> » woo hoo, it doesn't get much better.I am on holidays for a week and I dropped
> » into Infinitas Bookshop today (I didn't know where it was, I was on my way
> » back to pick up the car from a car park and noticed it there) and they got
> » their shipment of Honoured enemy this morning. Apparantly, I got his 6th copy.
> »
> » For those interested the address is
> »
> »       Infinitas Bookshop Pty Ltd
> »       Shop 5 Horwood Place
> »       Paramatta NSW 2150
> »        Ph (02) 9633 5682
> »       Fax (02) 9891 9264
> »       infinitas@bigpond.com
> »
> » It cost me AUS$39.95.
> »
> »
> » alan.
> » --








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References: <003801c11ac7$f1bb90e0$0100a8c0@mshome.net> <005701c11c92$3a69cde0$4785fea9@Sonia>
Subject: Re: Faerie Tale
Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 00:59:15 -0500
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Chad Keffer" <feistfan@chadkeffer.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Faerie Tale
Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 00:59:15 -0500
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

If I recall, the Illuminati goes way back before either book.
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: Sonia Tabe 
>To: FEISTFANS-L 
>Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 10:04 PM
>Subject: Re: Faerie Tale
>
>
>Oh yes. I noticed that too! Only I read the Tomb Raider book whislt reading Faerie Tale. I posted about that too =)

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From: "Jason Martin" <res0b95g@verizon.net>
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Subject: Moons and Size of Midkemia
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Jason Martin" <res0b95g@verizon.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Moons and Size of Midkemia
Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 00:31:56 -0700
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

My memory must be slipping, but how many moons does Midkemia have? (3?) and
how big is it compared to Earth?  For some reason I can not remember, and
its bugging the heck out of me!  If its the same size and has more then 1
moon, then that must be a pain for the tides, or am I way off the mark here?

Thanks,

Jason

"Mas Tequila!"
       Red Vodoo- Sammy Hagar



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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Paavo Kakko <joeru@mbnet.fi>
Subject: Re: Moons and Size of Midkemia
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2001 11:33:04 +0300
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Paavo Kakko <joeru@mbnet.fi>
Subject: Re: Moons and Size of Midkemia
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

At 00:31 4.8.2001 -0700, you wrote:
>My memory must be slipping, but how many moons does Midkemia have? (3?) and
>how big is it compared to Earth?  For some reason I can not remember, and
>its bugging the heck out of me!  If its the same size and has more then 1
>moon, then that must be a pain for the tides, or am I way off the mark here?

  Yea, three moons. No idea of its size though (Ray, any estimates,
roughly?), and the tides are what made Straits of Darkness so dangerous.



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Subject: Re: Moons and Size of Midkemia
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Jason Martin" <res0b95g@verizon.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Moons and Size of Midkemia
Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 01:38:52 -0700
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Paavo Kakko" <joeru@mbnet.fi>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Saturday, August 04, 2001 1:33 AM
Subject: Re: Moons and Size of Midkemia


> At 00:31 4.8.2001 -0700, you wrote:
> >My memory must be slipping, but how many moons does Midkemia have? (3?) and
> >how big is it compared to Earth?  For some reason I can not remember, and
> >its bugging the heck out of me!  If its the same size and has more then 1
> >moon, then that must be a pain for the tides, or am I way off the mark here?
>
>   Yea, three moons. No idea of its size though (Ray, any estimates,
> roughly?), and the tides are what made Straits of Darkness so dangerous.
>
I think the Straights of Darkness were so dangerous then just tides.  From
what I remember, fall-spring is a hellish time to travel.  The weather is
fairly bad and yes the tides can cause all sorts of troubles too.  Amos was
one of the very few to go through it when he did back in Magician.  I wonder
if Nicky ever tried?

Jason



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From: "Michael Gibson" <gibfish@gibbyco.freeserve.co.uk>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Moons and Size of Midkemia
Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 12:26:15 +0100
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From: "Michael Gibson" <gibfish@gibbyco.freeserve.co.uk>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Moons and Size of Midkemia
Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 12:26:15 +0100
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

> > At 00:31 4.8.2001 -0700, you wrote:
> > >My memory must be slipping, but how many moons does Midkemia have? (3?)
> and
> > >how big is it compared to Earth?  For some reason I can not remember, and
> > >its bugging the heck out of me!  If its the same size and has more then 1
> > >moon, then that must be a pain for the tides, or am I way off the mark
> here?
> >
> >   Yea, three moons. No idea of its size though (Ray, any estimates,
> > roughly?), and the tides are what made Straits of Darkness so dangerous.
> >
> I think the Straights of Darkness were so dangerous then just tides.  From
> what I remember, fall-spring is a hellish time to travel.  The weather is
> fairly bad and yes the tides can cause all sorts of troubles too.

That's right.  IIRC, they're called neap tides, where the sun's and moon's
gravitational effects combine constructively.

In answer to the moons question, there's one big, one medium, and one small.  I
think I remember Ray saying the large one was slightly larger than our own, but
I'm not sure.  I guess if you got all three lining up (a conjunction?  My mind
is not working very well this morning), you could get some large tides, but Ray
be da boss, so I'll let him answer, and save me the embarrassment of being
wrong. ;-)

Mike,
Gibfish of the West.
                                          Check out my forums at:
"If a problem appears simple, then it     http://www.tonrae.co.uk/forums/
probably hasn't been thought through."

> Amos was one of the very few to go through it when he did back in
> Magician.  I wonder if Nicky ever tried?





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From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
References: <003801c11ac7$f1bb90e0$0100a8c0@mshome.net> <005701c11c92$3a69cde0$4785fea9@Sonia> <001901c11caa$9778a9d0$52c9b718@agundar.net>
Subject: Re: Faerie Tale
Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 09:08:23 -0500
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From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Faerie Tale
Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 09:08:23 -0500
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    It does, it is the common name for the mythical society that
controls everything, and is often found throughout pop culture (the
cartoon gargoyles ebing a recent example) as well as in underground
literature produced by the people who believe in such powerful
secret societies.

>If I recall, the Illuminati goes way back before either book.



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Subject: Re: Planets in Feist books?
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From: IndianaJJr@aol.com
Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 12:16:29 EDT
Subject: Re: Planets in Feist books?
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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   Who is Miranda? I am on a Darkness at Sethanon and I haven't heard of her.

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Subject: Re: Query on Tsurani
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From: IndianaJJr@aol.com
Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 12:21:15 EDT
Subject: Re: Query on Tsurani
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I thought I read somthing that Tsurani was supposed to be like Japan and 
Medkimia was supposed to be like England and those places although I am 
probably wrong.

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Is honoured enemy part of the new series of books

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Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 12:36:42 EDT
Subject: Re: Moons and Size of Midkemia
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Who is nicky

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*** EOOH ***
X-Apparently-From: <gibbyfish@yahoo.com>
From: "Michael Gibson" <gibbyfish@yahoo.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Planets in Feist books?
Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 18:56:09 +0100
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

> Who is Miranda? I am on a Darkness at Sethanon and I haven't heard of her.

> Who is nicky?

Keep on reading - you'll soon find out.

> I thought I read somthing that Tsurani was supposed to be like Japan and
> Medkimia was supposed to be like England and those places although I am
> probably wrong.

The western half the kingdom is - check:
http://www.psihawk.com/feist/feist-faq.html#ML-Geog-Mk

And if you're a newbie, it'd be a good idea to read the whole page at:
http://www.psihawk.com/feist/feist-faq.html

> Is honoured enemy part of the new series of books

Yes - Legends of he Riftwar - and HE set about 10 years after the start of
Magician.

You need to turn off HTML in your emails -
1. Not everyone can read them,
2. When replying, the formatting goes to pot, and they can also get SERIOUSLY
bloated.

Mike,
Gibfish of the West.
                                          Check out my forums at:
"If a problem appears simple, then it     http://www.tonrae.co.uk/forums/
probably hasn't been thought through."


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com



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Subject: Re: Planets in Feist books?
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*** EOOH ***
From: IndianaJJr@aol.com
Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 15:36:46 EDT
Subject: Re: Planets in Feist books?
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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How do I turn off the HTML?

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Subject: Re: Moons and Size of Midkemia
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sat,  4 Aug 2001 21:49:37 +0200
Subject: Re: Moons and Size of Midkemia
From: "Sylvain Guehl" <fenyxkell@demo.xandmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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IIRC, Midkemia is 20% smaller than Earth, and in the RPG a year is 
250 or 300 days long and a day is 20 hours long... something like 
that?

Syl




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From: "Michael Gibson" <gibfish@gibbyco.freeserve.co.uk>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Planets in Feist books?
Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 22:02:41 +0100
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*** EOOH ***
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: "Michael Gibson" <gibfish@gibbyco.freeserve.co.uk>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Planets in Feist books?
Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 22:02:41 +0100
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

> How do I turn off the HTML?

That, appears to be a very good question ;-) - I can see no way of doing so with
the standard AOL client (I'm on a free trial with them at the moment).

Some kind soul here might be able to tell you.  If not, email AOL - have a quick
nose around, and you should be able to find the address.  Failing that, you
could set up a mail account with yahoo or someone similar, which you could use
just for list emails.

Mike,
Gibfish of the West.
                                          Check out my forums at:
"If a problem appears simple, then it     http://www.tonrae.co.uk/forums/
probably hasn't been thought through."



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 08:47:41 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: John <john@crydee.com>
Subject: Re: The FEISTFANS-L Members Listing REMINDER
User-Agent: Turnpike/6.00-Beta-6-U (<x5sqXV$6+zj$GDJXMMY4QwhIW3>)
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John <john@crydee.com> writes
>The FEISTFANS-L Members Listing is now located at Crydee.com
>
>http://www.crydee.com/feist/resource/fans/feistfans.htm
>
>If your location is in white it is currently correct and verified
>
>I would ask anyone who has not already verified to me their information 
>to do so ASAP.
>
>102 Have verified
>239 Still not verified
>
>Don't forget, if you haven't already sent me confirmation or update of 
>your details by the end of July your Entry WILL be deleted.
>
>Re- listing after that time will likely be on a Bi-monthly basis

All those who have not verified their details have now been removed from 
the members listing
Which is almost 200 people, many of whom I know are still on the list, 
so assume they no longer require listing
-- 
John

john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.

Raymond E Feist Ring
http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm



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From: "mike galanti" <animation85@hotmail.com>
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Dear Mr. Feist,
     I am only 15 but i have read all of your books about 15 times.  You are 
my favorite author and i have a question.  Will we ever see Owyn Befltoe 
again.  Please excuse my spelling i knoww not all of it is good.  But i 
really liked hte young Stardock reject who is now a knowledgable magician.  
If you would please answer my question.  Also i must tell you my mom is 
pissed off that all i read is your books.  She thinks i should broaden my 
reading horizon.  O well, I was just wondering and i hope you find the time 
to answer.

Signed,
Michael the Dragon Keeper

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 12:19:30 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: 
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On Sunday, August 5, 2001, at 11:53 AM, mike galanti wrote:

> Dear Mr. Feist,
>     I am only 15 but i have read all of your books about 15 times.  You 
> are my favorite author and i have a question.  Will we ever see Owyn 
> Befltoe again.  Please excuse my spelling i knoww not all of it is 
> good.  But i really liked hte young Stardock reject who is now a 
> knowledgable magician.  If you would please answer my question.  Also i 
> must tell you my mom is pissed off that all i read is your books.  She 
> thinks i should broaden my reading horizon.  O well, I was just 
> wondering and i hope you find the time to answer.
>

No more of Owyn.  Never thought of using him again.

And your mom is right. <g>  There are a host of really good books out 
there.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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From: Allan Mills <milla@css.com.au>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" (FEISTFANS-L) <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Aussie Release
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 08:58:09 +1000 
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*** EOOH ***
From: Allan Mills <milla@css.com.au>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" (FEISTFANS-L) <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Aussie Release
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 08:58:09 +1000 
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 I got mine from Belconnen.

 Allan

> -----Original Message-----
> From: James Barker [mailto:heechee@softhome.net]
> Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 5:42 PM
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Subject: Re: Aussie Release
> 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Allan Mills <milla@css.com.au>
> To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 2:02 PM
> Subject: RE: Aussie Release
> 
> 
> > I just got mine from Dymocks in Canberra. RRP is $39.95, reduced to
> $29.95.
> >
> >  One of my workmates (also a fan but not on this list) said 
> she thinks
> they
> > reduce the price to comptete with the general stores like 
> Kmart. She also
> > had no idea it was coming out either until I showed it to her.
> >
> >  Allan
> 
> Which one? Belconnen, Civic, or another (I'm not sure where 
> they are in
> Tuggers or Woden)?
> 
> Cheers,
> James
> 
> 



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From: Allan Mills <milla@css.com.au>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" (FEISTFANS-L) <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Kelewan from Midkemia
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 09:12:01 +1000 
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*** EOOH ***
From: Allan Mills <milla@css.com.au>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" (FEISTFANS-L) <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Kelewan from Midkemia
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 09:12:01 +1000 
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu



> -----Original Message-----
> From: Raymond Feist [mailto:raymond@bittersea.com]
> Sent: Saturday, August 04, 2001 1:25 AM
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Subject: Re: Kelewan from Midkemia
> 
> 
> 
> On Friday, August 3, 2001, at 05:00 AM, Michael Gibson wrote:
> 
> > Hi Ray
> >
> > Slight HE Spoiler:
> > -
> > -
> > -
> > --
> > -
> > -
> > --
> > -
> > -
> > --
> > -
> > -
> > --
> > -
> > -
> > --
> > -
> > -
> > --
> > -
> > -
> > --
> > -
> > -
> > -
> >
> > I've just started reading Honoured Enemy - firstly, 
> although I'm only 
> > 50 or so
> > pages in, I must say it is a great read - the tension and emotions 
> > really set it
> > off.
> >
> > Secondly, when Asayaga and Tasemu are talking, after capturing the 
> > moredhel
> > gatehouse, Asayaga wonders if he can see Kelewan's star 
> from Midkemia - 
> > can he,
> > or is it something you've never worked out?
> 
> 
> Something I never worked out, actually.  I have no idea where the two 
> worlds are relative to one another.  Never seemed relevant.
> 
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
> 
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be 
> explained away by 
> stupidity.
> 
> 

 I haven't managed to start the book yet but doesn't isn't that
contradictory ? When the Choja queen asks Mara where Midkemia lies in the
cosmos (?), Mara is incredulous thinking it absurd that the world of
Midkemia would be amongst the stars where the Gods live.

 Allan



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From: "Rob Kolech" <rkolech1@hotmail.com>
To: "Feist Mailing List" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Book Club Editions
Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 19:52:50 -0400
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From: "Rob Kolech" <rkolech1@hotmail.com>
To: "Feist Mailing List" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Book Club Editions
Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 19:52:50 -0400
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Hello I was just wondering if someone could tell me how I would know if I
have a Book Club Edition book.  Does it say somewhere in the book?  Is there
any way to find out?

Thanks,

Rob Kolech.



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From: Allan Mills <milla@css.com.au>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" (FEISTFANS-L) <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Moons and Size of Midkemia
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 10:58:38 +1000 
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*** EOOH ***
From: Allan Mills <milla@css.com.au>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" (FEISTFANS-L) <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Moons and Size of Midkemia
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 10:58:38 +1000 
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

 Prince Nicholas. He's Arutha's youngest son.
 
 Allan

-----Original Message-----
>From: IndianaJJr@aol.com [mailto:IndianaJJr@aol.com]
>Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2001 2:37 AM
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: Re: Moons and Size of Midkemia
>
>
>Who is nicky 

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Subject: Re: Kelewan from Midkemia
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 18:03:03 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Kelewan from Midkemia
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Sunday, August 5, 2001, at 04:12 PM, Allan Mills wrote:

>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Raymond Feist [mailto:raymond@bittersea.com]
>> Sent: Saturday, August 04, 2001 1:25 AM
>> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>> Subject: Re: Kelewan from Midkemia
>>
>>
>>
>> On Friday, August 3, 2001, at 05:00 AM, Michael Gibson wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Ray
>>>
>>> Slight HE Spoiler:
>>> -
>>> -
>>> -
>>> --
>>> -
>>> -
>>> --
>>> -
>>> -
>>> --
>>> -
>>> -
>>> --
>>> -
>>> -
>>> --
>>> -
>>> -
>>> --
>>> -
>>> -
>>> --
>>> -
>>> -
>>> -
>>>
>>> I've just started reading Honoured Enemy - firstly,
>> although I'm only
>>> 50 or so
>>> pages in, I must say it is a great read - the tension and emotions
>>> really set it
>>> off.
>>>
>>> Secondly, when Asayaga and Tasemu are talking, after capturing the
>>> moredhel
>>> gatehouse, Asayaga wonders if he can see Kelewan's star
>> from Midkemia -
>>> can he,
>>> or is it something you've never worked out?
>>
>>
>> Something I never worked out, actually.  I have no idea where the two
>> worlds are relative to one another.  Never seemed relevant.
>>
>> Best, R.E.F.
>> ----
>>
>> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be
>> explained away by
>> stupidity.
>>
>>
>
>  I haven't managed to start the book yet but doesn't isn't that
> contradictory ? When the Choja queen asks Mara where Midkemia lies in 
> the
> cosmos (?), Mara is incredulous thinking it absurd that the world of
> Midkemia would be amongst the stars where the Gods live.
>
>  Allan
>
>


I have no idea what your point is.  The fact that Mara has a problem 
believing in astronomy has no bearing on the fact I never bothered to 
consider WHERE in the respective universe the two planets are.  Or 
another answer, they're not anywhere; they're in my imagination.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



1,,
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 18:05:14 -0700 (PDT)
From: Ethan Pena <cooler37@excite.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re:
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I think u may have sent your replies to the wrong two people.... i dont know
why but i got areply froma msg i never wrote. I am in the mailing list
though.

I sent an e-mail asking when the next book should be hitting the shelves in
san diego if you know. Thx





_______________________________________________________
Send a cool gift with your E-Card
http://www.bluemountain.com/giftcenter/



1, edited,,
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Subject: Re: Moons and Size of Midkemia
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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*** EOOH ***
From: IndianaJJr@aol.com
Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 21:09:06 EDT
Subject: Re: Moons and Size of Midkemia
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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oh ok i am only on darkness at sethanon thanx

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From: Allan Mills <milla@css.com.au>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" (FEISTFANS-L) <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Kelewan from Midkemia
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 11:13:14 +1000 
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*** EOOH ***
From: Allan Mills <milla@css.com.au>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" (FEISTFANS-L) <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Kelewan from Midkemia
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 11:13:14 +1000 
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu



> -----Original Message-----
> From: Raymond Feist [mailto:raymond@bittersea.com]
> Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 11:03 AM
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Subject: Re: Kelewan from Midkemia
> 
> 
> 
> On Sunday, August 5, 2001, at 04:12 PM, Allan Mills wrote:
> 
> >
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Raymond Feist [mailto:raymond@bittersea.com]
> >> Sent: Saturday, August 04, 2001 1:25 AM
> >> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> >> Subject: Re: Kelewan from Midkemia
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Friday, August 3, 2001, at 05:00 AM, Michael Gibson wrote:
> >>
> >>> Hi Ray
> >>>
> >>> Slight HE Spoiler:
> >>> -
> >>> -
> >>> -
> >>> --
> >>> -
> >>> -
> >>> --
> >>> -
> >>> -
> >>> --
> >>> -
> >>> -
> >>> --
> >>> -
> >>> -
> >>> --
> >>> -
> >>> -
> >>> --
> >>> -
> >>> -
> >>> --
> >>> -
> >>> -
> >>> -
> >>>
> >>> I've just started reading Honoured Enemy - firstly,
> >> although I'm only
> >>> 50 or so
> >>> pages in, I must say it is a great read - the tension and emotions
> >>> really set it
> >>> off.
> >>>
> >>> Secondly, when Asayaga and Tasemu are talking, after capturing the
> >>> moredhel
> >>> gatehouse, Asayaga wonders if he can see Kelewan's star
> >> from Midkemia -
> >>> can he,
> >>> or is it something you've never worked out?
> >>
> >>
> >> Something I never worked out, actually.  I have no idea 
> where the two
> >> worlds are relative to one another.  Never seemed relevant.
> >>
> >> Best, R.E.F.
> >> ----
> >>
> >> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be
> >> explained away by
> >> stupidity.
> >>
> >>
> >
> >  I haven't managed to start the book yet but doesn't isn't that
> > contradictory ? When the Choja queen asks Mara where 
> Midkemia lies in 
> > the
> > cosmos (?), Mara is incredulous thinking it absurd that the world of
> > Midkemia would be amongst the stars where the Gods live.
> >
> >  Allan
> >
> >
> 
> 
> I have no idea what your point is.  The fact that Mara has a problem 
> believing in astronomy has no bearing on the fact I never bothered to 
> consider WHERE in the respective universe the two planets are.  Or 
> another answer, they're not anywhere; they're in my imagination.
> 
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
> 
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be 
> explained away by 
> stupidity.
> 
> 

 My point was that Mara doesn't believe that Midkemia is orbiting around one
of the stars that she can see in the sky at night. She believes the stars
are where the Gods live and presumably doesn't understand that the sun is a
star. If that belief was a common Tsurani belief then why would a Tsurani
solider be wondering if he could see the star of Kelewan from Midkemia. 

 Allan



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From: Allan Mills <milla@css.com.au>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" (FEISTFANS-L) <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: 
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 11:15:09 +1000 
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*** EOOH ***
From: Allan Mills <milla@css.com.au>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" (FEISTFANS-L) <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: 
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 11:15:09 +1000 
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

 Any posting or response sent to the mailing list goes to everybody. 

 Is English your primary language ? Please try to avoid abbreviations like
"u" and "thx".

 Allan

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ethan Pena [mailto:cooler37@excite.com]
> Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 11:05 AM
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Subject: Re:
> 
> 
> 
> I think u may have sent your replies to the wrong two 
> people.... i dont know
> why but i got areply froma msg i never wrote. I am in the mailing list
> though.
> 
> I sent an e-mail asking when the next book should be hitting 
> the shelves in
> san diego if you know. Thx
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________________
> Send a cool gift with your E-Card
> http://www.bluemountain.com/giftcenter/
> 
> 



1,,
X-Coding-System: undecided-unix
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 21:03:07 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re:
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Sunday, August 5, 2001, at 06:05 PM, Ethan Pena wrote:

>
> I think u may have sent your replies to the wrong two people.... i dont 
> know
> why but i got areply froma msg i never wrote. I am in the mailing list
> though.
>
> I sent an e-mail asking when the next book should be hitting the 
> shelves in
> san diego if you know. Thx
>

The next book in San Diego will be Talon of the Silver Hawk, which will 
be published in Feb/March of 2003.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
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Subject: Re: Kelewan from Midkemia
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 21:04:34 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Kelewan from Midkemia
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On Sunday, August 5, 2001, at 06:13 PM, Allan Mills wrote:

>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Raymond Feist [mailto:raymond@bittersea.com]
>> Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 11:03 AM
>> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>> Subject: Re: Kelewan from Midkemia
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sunday, August 5, 2001, at 04:12 PM, Allan Mills wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Raymond Feist [mailto:raymond@bittersea.com]
>>>> Sent: Saturday, August 04, 2001 1:25 AM
>>>> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>>>> Subject: Re: Kelewan from Midkemia
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Friday, August 3, 2001, at 05:00 AM, Michael Gibson wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi Ray
>>>>>
>>>>> Slight HE Spoiler:
>>>>> -
>>>>> -
>>>>> -
>>>>> --
>>>>> -
>>>>> -
>>>>> --
>>>>> -
>>>>> -
>>>>> --
>>>>> -
>>>>> -
>>>>> --
>>>>> -
>>>>> -
>>>>> --
>>>>> -
>>>>> -
>>>>> --
>>>>> -
>>>>> -
>>>>> --
>>>>> -
>>>>> -
>>>>> -
>>>>>
>>>>> I've just started reading Honoured Enemy - firstly,
>>>> although I'm only
>>>>> 50 or so
>>>>> pages in, I must say it is a great read - the tension and emotions
>>>>> really set it
>>>>> off.
>>>>>
>>>>> Secondly, when Asayaga and Tasemu are talking, after capturing the
>>>>> moredhel
>>>>> gatehouse, Asayaga wonders if he can see Kelewan's star
>>>> from Midkemia -
>>>>> can he,
>>>>> or is it something you've never worked out?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Something I never worked out, actually.  I have no idea
>> where the two
>>>> worlds are relative to one another.  Never seemed relevant.
>>>>
>>>> Best, R.E.F.
>>>> ----
>>>>
>>>> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be
>>>> explained away by
>>>> stupidity.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>  I haven't managed to start the book yet but doesn't isn't that
>>> contradictory ? When the Choja queen asks Mara where
>> Midkemia lies in
>>> the
>>> cosmos (?), Mara is incredulous thinking it absurd that the world of
>>> Midkemia would be amongst the stars where the Gods live.
>>>
>>>  Allan
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> I have no idea what your point is.  The fact that Mara has a problem
>> believing in astronomy has no bearing on the fact I never bothered to
>> consider WHERE in the respective universe the two planets are.  Or
>> another answer, they're not anywhere; they're in my imagination.
>>
>> Best, R.E.F.
>> ----
>>
>> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be
>> explained away by
>> stupidity.
>>
>>
>
>  My point was that Mara doesn't believe that Midkemia is orbiting 
> around one
> of the stars that she can see in the sky at night. She believes the 
> stars
> are where the Gods live and presumably doesn't understand that the sun 
> is a
> star. If that belief was a common Tsurani belief then why would a 
> Tsurani
> solider be wondering if he could see the star of Kelewan from Midkemia.
>
>  Allan
>
>
Ah, now I see.

Like every Tsurani on the planet must share the same belief system?  As 
if every person on Earth does?


Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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From: Allan Mills <milla@css.com.au>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" (FEISTFANS-L) <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Kelewan from Midkemia
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 14:28:56 +1000 
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*** EOOH ***
From: Allan Mills <milla@css.com.au>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" (FEISTFANS-L) <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Kelewan from Midkemia
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 14:28:56 +1000 
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


> >
> >  My point was that Mara doesn't believe that Midkemia is orbiting 
> > around one
> > of the stars that she can see in the sky at night. She believes the 
> > stars
> > are where the Gods live and presumably doesn't understand 
> that the sun 
> > is a
> > star. If that belief was a common Tsurani belief then why would a 
> > Tsurani
> > solider be wondering if he could see the star of Kelewan 
> from Midkemia.
> >
> >  Allan
> >
> >
> Ah, now I see.
> 
> Like every Tsurani on the planet must share the same belief 
> system?  As 
> if every person on Earth does?
> 
> 
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
> 
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be 
> explained away by 
> stupidity.
> 
> 

 Ah, ok. I had just assumed it was a common Tsurani belief/misconception.
She seemed to think the idea of Midkemia being out amongst the stars was
ludicrous. Since most of the Tsurani seem to bound to the same beliefs I
assumed others would think the same. More to the point it seemed to be a
matter of education, that the Tsurani just didn't know that their sun is a
star at close range. Or at least if someone was going to know that it would
be the educated nobility. Thanks for the clarification.

 Allan



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Is there anything out there you can recommend, Ray?


>From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
>Subject: Re:
>Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 12:19:30 -0700
>
>
>On Sunday, August 5, 2001, at 11:53 AM, mike galanti wrote:
>
>>Dear Mr. Feist,
>>     I am only 15 but i have read all of your books about 15 times.  You
>>are my favorite author and i have a question.  Will we ever see Owyn
>>Befltoe again.  Please excuse my spelling i knoww not all of it is
>>good.  But i really liked hte young Stardock reject who is now a
>>knowledgable magician.  If you would please answer my question.  Also i
>>must tell you my mom is pissed off that all i read is your books.  She
>>thinks i should broaden my reading horizon.  O well, I was just
>>wondering and i hope you find the time to answer.
>>
>
>No more of Owyn.  Never thought of using him again.
>
>And your mom is right. <g>  There are a host of really good books out
>there.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
>stupidity.
>


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp



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From: John <john@crydee.com>
Subject: Re: Book Club Editions
References: <OE382H67yRLVbNDN4Cx00002935@hotmail.com>
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Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 07:28:26 +0100
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From: John <john@crydee.com>
Subject: Re: Book Club Editions
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Rob Kolech <rkolech1@hotmail.com> writes
>Hello I was just wondering if someone could tell me how I would know if I
>have a Book Club Edition book.  Does it say somewhere in the book?  Is there
>any way to find out?
>
>Thanks,
>
>Rob Kolech.
>
On the jacket flap it may say BCE or Book Club Edition.It may be 
published by the BCA.
There will be no ISBN on the back (normally)

but the quickest way is that it is usually shorter than a normal 
Hardback
Though Silverthorn ADAS and DOE Firsts are shorter too, and FT Book Club 
is full size :)
-- 
John

john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.

Raymond E Feist Ring
http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm



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Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 04:42:38 EDT
Subject: Empire Trilogy
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From: BH10BH000@aol.com
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 04:42:38 EDT
Subject: Empire Trilogy
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Just wondering when does the Empire Trilogy occur in the time span of 
Midkemia.
Is it before or after the Riftwar Legacy.

Ben



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On Monday, August 6, 2001, at 06:04 AM, David Christensen wrote:

> Is there anything out there you can recommend, Ray?
>
>

Hundreds of books.  Depends on one's taste.  If you'd like to know books 
that influenced me directly/indirectly, I can generate a list.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: Empire Trilogy
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Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 11:00:26 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: Empire Trilogy
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At 04:42 AM 8/6/01 -0400, BH10BH000@aol.com wrote:
>Just wondering when does the Empire Trilogy occur in the time span of 
>Midkemia.
>Is it before or after the Riftwar Legacy.

During.  The first starts during the first or second year of the
war.  The second starts six or seven years after that (towards
the end of the war).  The last is much later (12-14 or so
years after the second).

rip



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Subject: Re: Empire Trilogy
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 11:06:17 +0100
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Daughter of the Empire and Servant of the Empire occur during the time of
magician.
Mistress of the Empire occurs during the time of silverthron and darkness at
sethanon.

James :-)

----- Original Message -----
From: <BH10BH000@aol.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 9:42 AM
Subject: Empire Trilogy


> Just wondering when does the Empire Trilogy occur in the time span of
> Midkemia.
> Is it before or after the Riftwar Legacy.
>
> Ben
>
>



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From: Adam012882@cs.com
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 11:25:36 EDT
Subject: Re: Moons and Size of Midkemia
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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In a message dated 8/5/01 9:08:18 PM Eastern Daylight Time, milla@css.com.au 
writes:
> Prince Nicholas. He's Arutha's youngest son.

If Arutha's anything like his father, he probably has a few more with the 
maids, and a few  grandchildren in kesh.



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Subject: Re: Book Club Editions
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 11:31:43 -0400
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From: "Rob Kolech" <rkolech1@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re: Book Club Editions
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 11:31:43 -0400
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The book that I have is Faerie Tale.  The reason I think it might be a Book
Club edition is because the top of the inside flap has a diagonal cut.  The
publisher is Doubleday not BCE, it has an ISBN, in the copyright section it
says "First Edition" 1988.  Does this sound like a book club edition??
Thanks

Rob Kolech



> Rob Kolech <rkolech1@hotmail.com> writes
> >Hello I was just wondering if someone could tell me how I would know if I
> >have a Book Club Edition book.  Does it say somewhere in the book?  Is there
> >any way to find out?
> >
> >Thanks,
> >
> >Rob Kolech.
> >
> On the jacket flap it may say BCE or Book Club Edition.It may be
> published by the BCA.
> There will be no ISBN on the back (normally)
>
> but the quickest way is that it is usually shorter than a normal
> Hardback
> Though Silverthorn ADAS and DOE Firsts are shorter too, and FT Book Club
> is full size :)
> --
> John
>
> john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
> http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.
>
> Raymond E Feist Ring
> http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm
>
>



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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: Moons and Size of Midkemia
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At 11:25 AM 8/6/01 -0400, Adam012882@cs.com wrote:
>In a message dated 8/5/01 9:08:18 PM Eastern Daylight Time, milla@css.com.au 
>writes:
>
><< Prince Nicholas. He's Arutha's youngest son. >>
>
>If Arutha's anything like his father, he probably has a few more with the 
>maids, and a few  grandchildren in kesh.

Um, no.  I don't think so.

Boric chased the skirts as a kid, up through as a squire at Rillanon.
I'm not disputing that.  But once he got the girl, his behavior
was entirely different.  I also think he would have dissuaded
his kids from following that path, based on the trouble that
having Martin around caused.  

If Arutha was the type to boink indiscriminantly, then it would
have been put in the books.  It wasn't there, so I think you are
over stretching your case.

Interesting.  Eudora understands what 'to boink' means and has
awarded this email three peppers.  I don't think boinking is 
worth all that much.  It isn't .that. strong a term....and no 
quoting out of context, you.

rip



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From: IndianaJJr@aol.com
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 12:31:13 EDT
Subject: Re: 
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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allan or whatever your name is are u talking to me or some one else, and u 
and thanx is english.

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*** EOOH ***
From: IndianaJJr@aol.com
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 12:36:36 EDT
Subject: Re: 
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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hey damc84 have you read the lord of the rings its a long book but it's worth 
reading it is a really good trilogy.

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From: John <john@crydee.com>
Subject: Re: Book Club Editions
References: <OE382H67yRLVbNDN4Cx00002935@hotmail.com>
 <8qJFzDDKkjb7Ew5y@cableinet.co.uk> <OE71Dxb5C5tnhkSrNNO00004dd2@hotmail.com>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 17:48:29 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: John <john@crydee.com>
Subject: Re: Book Club Editions
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Rob Kolech <rkolech1@hotmail.com> writes
>The book that I have is Faerie Tale.  The reason I think it might be a Book
>Club edition is because the top of the inside flap has a diagonal cut.  The
>publisher is Doubleday not BCE, it has an ISBN, in the copyright section it
>says "First Edition" 1988.  Does this sound like a book club edition??
>Thanks
>
>Rob Kolech
>
That is a First Edition, they have cut the price from the book

-- 
John

john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.

Raymond E Feist Ring
http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 10:05:00 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: 
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On Monday, August 6, 2001, at 09:31 AM, IndianaJJr@aol.com wrote:

> allan or whatever your name is are u talking to me or some one else, 
> and u
> and thanx is english.
>

"U" is a letter.  "Thanx" is an illiteracy, not a real word.  The real 
word is "Thanks."  Capitalization is expected of literate people.

Allan is trying to make the point that many of the members of this 
mailing list do not speak/write English as their first language, they 
are native speakers of other languages.  My books have been translated 
into seventeen different languages.   "U" and "thanx" and "kwel" and the 
other marks of the younger internet users can be confusing to them and 
make it difficult for them to participate in some threads.

Now, if you don't care about being understood, about your communications 
being clear, continue as you have been.  If you'd like people to take 
what you have to say seriously, observed the conventions of formal 
English, which means punctuation and capitalization, correct spelling 
(or as much as you can; I'm a notoriously bad speller) and you'll find 
it easier to get along.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.

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From: "David Christensen" <damc84@hotmail.com>
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From: "David Christensen" <damc84@hotmail.com>
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Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 17:35:58 
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*smiles* Well, as far as fantasy goes, Lord of the Rings is a must, isn't 
it? It would be sacrilege to have not read it :) as Tolkien singlehandedly 
created the genre after all. Personally, however, I only read it very 
recently, but it was good. Of course the language is different, very 
archaic, but that didn't bug me... what did though was Frodo fading into the 
background towards the end and not being the main character he's supposed to 
be. And the inane singing! :)

Well, if I wanted to be a bit more specific, Ray, then how about books you 
would recommend that are in the fantasy genre? Besides LotR and the Hobbit, 
besides your stuff i've only read the Earthsea trilogies by Ursula le Guin 
and a whole lot of Dragonlance books. Don't know why I wasted my time with 
Dragonlance, though, none of the characters die realisticly. Thats part of 
the reason why I love your books Ray- your characters are actually mortal! 
Owen Greylock to name one character who died an astonishing death.


>From: IndianaJJr@aol.com
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
>Subject: Re:
>Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 12:36:36 EDT
>
>hey damc84 have you read the lord of the rings its a long book but it's 
>worth
>reading it is a really good trilogy.


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp



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Message-ID: <10c.3bc09d7.28a0332f@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 13:51:43 EDT
Subject: Empire Trilogy and Conclave of Shadows
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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*** EOOH ***
From: BH10BH000@aol.com
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 13:51:43 EDT
Subject: Empire Trilogy and Conclave of Shadows
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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Firstly how come you don't hear about Mara etc. all of the time Pug is in 
Kelewan in Magician.

Secondly, is the Conclave of Shadows the series in which the Shadow war is 
going to take place or is that different.

Ben



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 11:08:12 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re:
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Monday, August 6, 2001, at 05:35 PM, David Christensen wrote:

> *smiles* Well, as far as fantasy goes, Lord of the Rings is a must, 
> isn't it? It would be sacrilege to have not read it :) as Tolkien 
> singlehandedly created the genre after all. Personally, however, I only 
> read it very recently, but it was good. Of course the language is 
> different, very archaic, but that didn't bug me... what did though was 
> Frodo fading into the background towards the end and not being the main 
> character he's supposed to be. And the inane singing! :)
>
> Well, if I wanted to be a bit more specific, Ray, then how about books 
> you would recommend that are in the fantasy genre? Besides LotR and the 
> Hobbit, besides your stuff i've only read the Earthsea trilogies by 
> Ursula le Guin and a whole lot of Dragonlance books. Don't know why I 
> wasted my time with Dragonlance, though, none of the characters die 
> realisticly. Thats part of the reason why I love your books Ray- your 
> characters are actually mortal! Owen Greylock to name one character who 
> died an astonishing death.


Let's see . . .

Fantasy:  All of Fritz Leiber's work.  The works of A. Merrit, H.P. 
Lovecraft, R.E. Howard, E.R. Borough's non-Tarzan stuff, Aruthr Conan 
Doyle's non-Sherlock stuff (especially the Professor Challenger 
stories).   W.P. Kinsella's Shoeless Joe and  Iowa Baseball 
Confederacy.  William Goldman's The Princess Bride.  T.H. White's Once 
and Future King.  Viereck & Eldrige's My First Two Thousand Years.  
There are others I'm forgetting.


Non-Fantasy:

The Three Musketeers, The Man in the Iron Mask, and 20 Years After by 
Alexandre Dumas. The Prison of Zenda and Rupert of Heschau by Anthony 
Hope.  Just about anything by Rafael Sabatini.  The historical novels of 
Thomas Costain.  Same for Marry Renault.

That's a good list to start with.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.

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From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
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On Monday, August 6, 2001, at 10:51 AM, BH10BH000@aol.com wrote:

> Firstly how come you don't hear about Mara etc. all of the time Pug is 
> in
> Kelewan in Magician.

Because I hadn't created Mara and her story when I wrote Magician.
>
> Secondly, is the Conclave of Shadows the series in which the Shadow war 
> is
> going to take place or is that different.

Conclave is Shadow War (new title).

Best, R.E.F.

----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.

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BH10BH000@aol.com writes
>Firstly how come you don't hear about Mara etc. all of the time Pug is in
>Kelewan in Magician.
That's easy Daughter of the Empire hadn't been written so Mara hadn't 
been thought of
>
>Secondly, is the Conclave of Shadows the series in which the Shadow war is
>going to take place or is that different.
>
For Shadow war read Conclave of the Shadows. Series title change

-- 
John

john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.

Raymond E Feist Ring
http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm



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On Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 05:35:58PM +0000, David Christensen wrote:
> *smiles* Well, as far as fantasy goes, Lord of the Rings is a must, isn't 
> it? It would be sacrilege to have not read it :) as Tolkien singlehandedly 
> created the genre after all. Personally, however, I only read it very 
> recently, but it was good. Of course the language is different, very 
> archaic, but that didn't bug me... what did though was Frodo fading into the 
> background towards the end and not being the main character he's supposed to 
> be. And the inane singing! :)

Tolkien didn't create the fantasy genre. He might be said to be the
father of the modern, epic fantasy but that is it.
Some of the best-known pre-LOTR fantasy authors are Robert E. Howard,
H.P. Lovecraft, Lord Dunsany and Jack Vance.
All of these have probably had nearly as much influence (directly or
indirectly) on the fantasy genre as Tolkien ever had.

(And if you have never heard of, or read, any of those authors then you
should get to the nearest library/bookshop Right Now, since you
obviously have some reading to do. :-)  )


(Oh, and I wouldn't say that Frodo was supposed to be the main
character. The world and its languages was.  :-)
And if you think the language in LOTR was archaic your reading habits
are obviously somewhat limited. :-)  )


-- 
<Insert your favourite quote here.>
Erik Trulsson
ertr1013@student.uu.se



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On Mon, Aug 06, 2001 at 01:51:43PM -0400, BH10BH000@aol.com wrote:
> Firstly how come you don't hear about Mara etc. all of the time Pug is in 
> Kelewan in Magician.

Probably because Ray had not yet invented Mara when Magician was
written. :-)
In the APE there is a reference to "the Lady of the Acoma" but that is
clearly an after-the-fact reference.


> 
> Secondly, is the Conclave of Shadows the series in which the Shadow war is 
> going to take place or is that different.

I don't know, but I guess the answer is WUTNB (Wait Until The Next Book.)
(Or, possibly, RAFO. (Read And Find Out) 

-- 
<Insert your favourite quote here.>
Erik Trulsson
ertr1013@student.uu.se



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> The Three Musketeers, The Man in the Iron Mask, and 20 Years After 
> by Alexandre Dumas

VERY VERY good choice Ray :)

Syl



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Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 16:11:33 EDT
Subject: Conclave of Shadows
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From: BH10BH000@aol.com
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 16:11:33 EDT
Subject: Conclave of Shadows
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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Sorry to keep on, I'm just confused, but somewhere I read the first book of 
Conclave of Shadows is Hawk Asscending and somewhere else, Talon of a Silver 
Hawk. Which is it?

Thanks

Ben 



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From: dreamfish@space.com
Date: 6 Aug 2001 14:36:46 -0700
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> >If Arutha's anything like his father, he probably has a few more with the 
> >maids, and a few  grandchildren in kesh.
> 
> Um, no.  I don't think so.
> 
> 
> If Arutha was the type to boink indiscriminantly, then it would
> have been put in the books.  It wasn't there, so I think you are
> over stretching your case.
 
 I agree with this. I think if Arutha was 'boinking' anyone, we would
have read about it. Also, Arutha just didn't seem to have time to go
off boinking! He was a very young man at the start of the RiftWar, and
then he met Anita. I think it would be completely out of character for
him to even look at anyone else after they met. One of the big deals
with the two of them is the great love they have for each other.
  

> Interesting.  Eudora understands what 'to boink' means and has
> awarded this email three peppers.  I don't think boinking is 
> worth all that much.  It isn't .that. strong a term....and no 
> quoting out of context, you.
> 
> rip
  
heeheehee...that's funny. So 'boinking' is a three pepper, huh? What
do you have to do to get four peppers?
 
 Anita

___________________________________________________________________
Join the Space Program: Get FREE E-mail at http://www.space.com.



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From: Adam012882@cs.com
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 18:36:29 EDT
Subject: Re: Moons and Size of Midkemia
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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In a message dated 8/6/01 5:46:30 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
dreamfish@space.com writes:
> > >If Arutha's anything like his father, he probably has a few more with the 
> > >maids, and a few  grandchildren in kesh.
> > 
> > Um, no.  I don't think so.
> > 
> > 
> > If Arutha was the type to boink indiscriminantly, then it would
> > have been put in the books.  It wasn't there, so I think you are
> > over stretching your case.
>  
>  I agree with this. I think if Arutha was 'boinking' anyone, we would have 
>read about it. Also, Arutha just didn't seem to have time to go off boinking! 
>He was a very young man at the start of the RiftWar, and then he met Anita. I 
>think it would be completely out of character for him to even look at anyone 
>else after they met. One of the big deals with the two of them is the great 
>love they have for each other. 
>   
> 
> > Interesting.  Eudora understands what 'to boink' means and has
> > awarded this email three peppers.  I don't think boinking is 
> > worth all that much.  It isn't .that. strong a term....and no 
> > quoting out of context, you.
> > 
> > rip
>   
> heeheehee...that's funny. So 'boinking' is a three pepper, huh? What do you 
>have to do to get four peppers?
>  
>  Anita


I remember feist mention in one of his books something about noblemen having 
basterd children running around the castle. thats why i brought up the 
subject. I mean comeon noble men were like todays rockstars and movie stars 
or like the nsync boyband, all the girls want a piece of them and if nsync 
were child molesters they would sleep with all of them. just like in the 
middle ages, the nobles would start looking fo some action, a maid happens to 
pass by , he tells her to go in his chamber and help hiself to her. she wont 
refuse because she thinks its an honor to sleep with royalty. Arutha was 
around 18 when the riftwar started, so he had lots of time to mess around 
befor that. even if he doesnt seem like the person who would do somthing like 
that , he might have been immature then matured  later on just befor  the 
riftwar started or was forced to mature because of the riftwar. Borric didnt 
seem ike the type to fool around befor he got married but he did. we didnt 
know that martin was borrics son till book 2 of the riftwar saga. maybe we'll 
find out that aruth has a basterd son in one of feists up coming novels.  
hehehe boinking..silly



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From: Allan Mills <milla@css.com.au>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" (FEISTFANS-L) <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
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Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 09:22:28 +1000 
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: David Christensen [mailto:damc84@hotmail.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2001 3:36 AM
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Subject: Re:
> 
> 
> *smiles* Well, as far as fantasy goes, Lord of the Rings is a 
> must, isn't 
> it? It would be sacrilege to have not read it :) as Tolkien 
> singlehandedly 
> created the genre after all. Personally, however, I only read it very 

 I would say that Tolkien popularised the genre, not created it. Myths of
elves and goblins and the like have been around for centuries. His were the
first works though to gather them all up and make them shine.

 Allan



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Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 09:59:27 +1000
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From: Anestis Kozakis <kenosti@labyrinth.net.au>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 09:59:27 +1000
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Anestis Kozakis <kenosti@labyrinth.net.au>
Subject: Re:
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

David Christensen wrote :

>*smiles* Well, as far as fantasy goes, Lord of the Rings is a must, 
>isn't it? It would be sacrilege to have not read it :)

[snip rest]

Why is it sacrilege to not have read Lord of the Rings?

I haven't read LotR.  Does that make me sacrilegious?

A lot of people already think I'm weird because I read Ray's works, I 
enjoy watching Buffy, I like Sluggy Freelance 
(http://www.sluggy.com), I play RPGs, I play computer games, I like 
reading Fantasy and SF books in general, I like watching The West 
Wing, The Practice, Quantum Leap, Picket Fences, and because of many 
other things I do.

So I haven't read LotR.  Does that make any more weird?

Why must I read LotR?  Just to please you?

I'm sorry, but not everyone has the same taste as you, and no two 
people have exactly the same tastes.

LotR has never interested me.  I have had friends hounding me for 
years to read it, but I have never bowed in to the pressure.  I just 
smile, nod, and say "Maybe at some stage I'll read it".

And maybe I will, after I see the Trilogy of Movies.  Maybe I won't. 
I haven't decided, but at this stage in my life, LotR is not my cup 
of tea, and anyone who so much as hints that just because I haven't 
read it I must deficient somehow has to really take stock of 
themselves.

Please choose your words carefully in the future.

Anestis.

-- 
kenosti@labyrinth.net.au
"A complete list of this film's associate producers
  is available upon request."
    -- In End Credits for "State and Main"



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From: Allan Mills <milla@css.com.au>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" (FEISTFANS-L) <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: 
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 10:10:47 +1000 
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*** EOOH ***
From: Allan Mills <milla@css.com.au>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" (FEISTFANS-L) <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: 
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 10:10:47 +1000 
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 By any chance do you understand what :) means ? It's a smiley, people put
it on the end of text so that the recipient will understand that their
message is meant to be taken as tounge in cheek, that they aren't really
serious about what they are saying.

 Notice how the original posting had a smiley after his statement that it
would be sacrilege not to have read LOTR ? 

 Please try to look for things like this in the future. It saves having to
sift through a page of ranting about something that someone clearly didn't
mean.

 Allan

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Anestis Kozakis [mailto:kenosti@labyrinth.net.au]
> Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2001 9:59 AM
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Subject: Re:
> 
> 
> David Christensen wrote :
> 
> >*smiles* Well, as far as fantasy goes, Lord of the Rings is a must, 
> >isn't it? It would be sacrilege to have not read it :)
> 
> [snip rest]
> 
> Why is it sacrilege to not have read Lord of the Rings?
> 
> I haven't read LotR.  Does that make me sacrilegious?
> 
> A lot of people already think I'm weird because I read Ray's works, I 
> enjoy watching Buffy, I like Sluggy Freelance 
> (http://www.sluggy.com), I play RPGs, I play computer games, I like 
> reading Fantasy and SF books in general, I like watching The West 
> Wing, The Practice, Quantum Leap, Picket Fences, and because of many 
> other things I do.
> 
> So I haven't read LotR.  Does that make any more weird?
> 
> Why must I read LotR?  Just to please you?
> 
> I'm sorry, but not everyone has the same taste as you, and no two 
> people have exactly the same tastes.
> 
> LotR has never interested me.  I have had friends hounding me for 
> years to read it, but I have never bowed in to the pressure.  I just 
> smile, nod, and say "Maybe at some stage I'll read it".
> 
> And maybe I will, after I see the Trilogy of Movies.  Maybe I won't. 
> I haven't decided, but at this stage in my life, LotR is not my cup 
> of tea, and anyone who so much as hints that just because I haven't 
> read it I must deficient somehow has to really take stock of 
> themselves.
> 
> Please choose your words carefully in the future.
> 
> Anestis.
> 
> -- 
> kenosti@labyrinth.net.au
> "A complete list of this film's associate producers
>   is available upon request."
>     -- In End Credits for "State and Main"
> 
> 



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*** EOOH ***
From: IndianaJJr@aol.com
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 21:03:56 EDT
Subject: Re: 
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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Oh thank you.

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*** EOOH ***
From: IndianaJJr@aol.com
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 21:07:16 EDT
Subject: Re: 
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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Yea I didn't really like the way Frodo was like a secondary character at the 
end either, but it was a good book. Oh and Ray I was just being sarcastic 
when I typed "Oh thank you," as you will see I do a lot.

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*** EOOH ***
From: IndianaJJr@aol.com
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 21:10:35 EDT
Subject: Re: Moons and Size of Midkemia
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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Hey whoever said boinking first have you seen Road Trip.

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*** EOOH ***
From: IndianaJJr@aol.com
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 21:13:24 EDT
Subject: Re: 
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yea people think that I am weird cause I read Fantasy and stuff, but i guess 
it is beacause most kids don't like to read and stuff much anymore.

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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 11:13:35 +1000
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Anestis Kozakis <kenosti@labyrinth.net.au>
Subject: RE:
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Allan Mills wrote :

>  By any chance do you understand what :) means ? It's a smiley, people put
>it on the end of text so that the recipient will understand that their
>message is meant to be taken as tounge in cheek, that they aren't really
>serious about what they are saying.

I know what a smiley is and I saw it.

Even if he was joking, the statement was made, and I still take 
exception to the statement.

Let me repeat myself :

"... and anyone who so much as hints that just because I haven't
read it I must deficient somehow has to really take stock of
themselves."

I wasn't ranting per se, but making a response about how I feel to 
the way some people think that if you read Fantasy, any type of 
Fantasy, you must also read Lord of the Rings.

I take exception to that kind of thinking, and was providing my reasons why.

I have always asked my friends "Why?" when they keep telling me I 
should read Lord of the Rings.  None of them have been able to give 
me a satisfactory answer beyond "You must" or "Just because" or any 
other number of similar reasons.

Not everyone has the same tastes, thus you shouldn't be telling 
people, even jokingly, what they should and shouldn't read.  That's 
the statement I was trying to make.

People will read what they want to read.  It's their choice.

[snip]

>  Allan

Anestis.
-- 
kenosti@labyrinth.net.au
"A complete list of this film's associate producers
  is available upon request."
    -- In End Credits for "State and Main"



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Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 11:14:30 +1000 
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*** EOOH ***
From: Allan Mills <milla@css.com.au>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" (FEISTFANS-L) <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: 
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 11:14:30 +1000 
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

 Please include a small amount of the message you are replying to. It gives
us a better idea of what you are talking about. In this case I have no idea
who you are thanking and for what. I'm a (somewhat) busy person, I don't
have the time to go hunting through old messages to work out what you are
replying to.

 Allan


-----Original Message-----
>From: IndianaJJr@aol.com [mailto:IndianaJJr@aol.com]
>Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2001 11:04 AM
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: Re: 
>
>
>Oh thank you. 
>


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From: IndianaJJr@aol.com
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 21:21:07 EDT
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oh ray sid that u and stuff were slang so i just felt like being sarcastic 
and using the words properly

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> Not everyone has the same tastes, thus you shouldn't be telling 
> people, even jokingly, what they should and shouldn't read.  That's
> the statement I was trying to make.

Well, about the only question I have, is how do you know you won't 
like it if you've never read it? :) 

I'm all for trying anything once. :) 

-d



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 **spoilers for the SerpentWar Saga**
 
  
On Mon, 06 August 2001, Adam012882@cs.com wrote:


> 
> I remember feist mention in one of his books something about noblemen having 
> basterd children running around the castle. thats why i brought up the 
> subject. I mean comeon noble men were like todays rockstars and movie stars 
> or like the nsync boyband, all the girls want a piece of them and if nsync 
> were child molesters they would sleep with all of them. just like in the 
> middle ages, the nobles would start looking fo some action, a maid happens to 
> pass by , he tells her to go in his chamber and help hiself to her. she wont 
> refuse because she thinks its an honor to sleep with royalty. Arutha was 
> around 18 when the riftwar started, so he had lots of time to mess around 
> befor that. even if he doesnt seem like the person who would do somthing like 
> that , he might have been immature then matured  later on just befor  the 
> riftwar started or was forced to mature because of the riftwar. Borric didnt 
> seem ike the type to fool around befor he got married but he did. we didnt 
> know that martin was borrics son till book 2 of the riftwar saga. maybe we'll 
> find out that aruth has a basterd son in one of feists up coming novels.  
> hehehe boinking..silly
  
 Well, if we were going to find out about a wee, stray Arutha running
around, I think we would have heard about it by now. I mean maybe Ray
has a surprise for us later, but at the time of the SerpentWar, Arutha
has not had any new pups show up...and after the SerpentWar...well, he
can't cause he's the Late Prince.
 
  I know what you mean by the Nobles 'boinking'(thanks rip) the
occasional maid/serving wench, but I still can't picture Arutha doing
that. But hey, I'm just a helpless romantic when it comes to the
Arutha/Anita story. I really hope there are no new kids in the future
for him.
 
 Anita 
 
 
 'I lie awake with the sound of the sea, calling to me.'
 
 

___________________________________________________________________
Join the Space Program: Get FREE E-mail at http://www.space.com.



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*** EOOH ***
From: kuros@pgtv.net (kuros)
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
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Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 20:41:38 -0700
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I have not read LoTR eithier. I read The Hobbit, and I had to make myself
finish it (because I refuse to start a book and not finish it, unless it is
*really really* horrible, such as Fiona Patton's novels). After that, I just
didn't read the trilogy. This is not to say that Mr. Tolkien's novels are
horrible, just that they're not the kind I like to read. For what it's
worth, Mr. Mills, I thought your remark was funny. =)

Kuros
"At what point did you forget that we're trying to take over the
world?!" -Fluffy the Cat, from Cats & Dogs The Movie

----- Original Message -----
From: "Anestis Kozakis" <kenosti@labyrinth.net.au>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 6:13 PM
Subject: RE:


> Allan Mills wrote :
>
> >  By any chance do you understand what :) means ? It's a smiley, people put
> >it on the end of text so that the recipient will understand that their
> >message is meant to be taken as tounge in cheek, that they aren't really
> >serious about what they are saying.
>
> I know what a smiley is and I saw it.
>
> Even if he was joking, the statement was made, and I still take
> exception to the statement.
>
> Let me repeat myself :
>
> "... and anyone who so much as hints that just because I haven't
> read it I must deficient somehow has to really take stock of
> themselves."
>
> I wasn't ranting per se, but making a response about how I feel to
> the way some people think that if you read Fantasy, any type of
> Fantasy, you must also read Lord of the Rings.
>
> I take exception to that kind of thinking, and was providing my reasons why.
>
> I have always asked my friends "Why?" when they keep telling me I
> should read Lord of the Rings.  None of them have been able to give
> me a satisfactory answer beyond "You must" or "Just because" or any
> other number of similar reasons.
>
> Not everyone has the same tastes, thus you shouldn't be telling
> people, even jokingly, what they should and shouldn't read.  That's
> the statement I was trying to make.
>
> People will read what they want to read.  It's their choice.
>
> [snip]
>
> >  Allan
>
> Anestis.
> --
> kenosti@labyrinth.net.au
> "A complete list of this film's associate producers
>   is available upon request."
>     -- In End Credits for "State and Main"
>
>



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Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 21:48:53 -0400
To: feistfans-l@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Dan Lorey <dl24@cornell.edu>
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Some people just can't seem to grasp the fact that they're being a
twit, in spite of the fact that their behavior has been chastized
both on the list and in private emails. My patience has run out and
my warnings were ignored, and thus this person has been removed from the 
list. Please direct any further comments about their behavior diectly to 
them, not to the list.

  Dan Lorey - Feistfans-l List Owner



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From: Allan Mills <milla@css.com.au>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" (FEISTFANS-L) <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: 
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 11:50:48 +1000 
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: Anestis Kozakis [mailto:kenosti@labyrinth.net.au]
> Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2001 11:14 AM
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Subject: RE:
> 
> 
> 
> I have always asked my friends "Why?" when they keep telling me I 
> should read Lord of the Rings.  None of them have been able to give 
> me a satisfactory answer beyond "You must" or "Just because" or any 
> other number of similar reasons.
> 

 The reason why is simple. A large chunk of fantasy authors today were
either inspired by reading Tolkien, inspired by reading somone else inspired
by Tolkien or flat out owe the popularity of fantasy to Tolkien. He didn't
invent the genre but he popularised it. 

 David Eddings mentions Tolkien in his book the Rivan Codex which was a
collection of ideas for his Belgariad and Mallorean novels. He had rejected
fantasy and was trying to write "normal" fiction when he noticed Lord of the
Rings in a book store. He thought to himself "Is that old thing still
selling ?" and took a closer look. It was in something like its 36th
reprinting. He decided to go back and take another look at a fantasy story
he'd been thinking about.

 Even Rays works are derived from a varient of D&D which is derived from
Tolkiens works. The reason to read Tolkiens books ? So that you can see
where it all started.

 Allan



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From: Anestis Kozakis <kenosti@labyrinth.net.au>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 11:55:57 +1000
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Anestis Kozakis <kenosti@labyrinth.net.au>
Subject: RE:
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

>  > Not everyone has the same tastes, thus you shouldn't be telling
>>  people, even jokingly, what they should and shouldn't read.  That's
>>  the statement I was trying to make.
>
>Well, about the only question I have, is how do you know you won't
>like it if you've never read it? :)

That's what my friends ask me as well :-/

When I was younger I tried reading the Hobbit, and got bored very quickly.

I guess I've just never been interested in any of Tolkien's works (is 
that how you spell his name - I keep forgetting :-).

Like I said, things may change after I have seen the Trilogy.

>I'm all for trying anything once. :)

Oh don't get me wrong, so am I.

And I do have a sense of humour (despite what some people may think 
after my responses).

>-d

Anestis.
-- 
kenosti@labyrinth.net.au
"A complete list of this film's associate producers
  is available upon request."
    -- In End Credits for "State and Main"



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From: dreamfish@space.com
Date: 6 Aug 2001 18:59:30 -0700
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On Mon, 06 August 2001, kuros wrote:

> 
> I have not read LoTR eithier. I read The Hobbit, and I had to make myself
> finish it (because I refuse to start a book and not finish it, unless it is
> *really really* horrible, such as Fiona Patton's novels). After that, I just
> didn't read the trilogy. This is not to say that Mr. Tolkien's novels are
> horrible, just that they're not the kind I like to read. For what it's
> worth, Mr. Mills, I thought your remark was funny. =)
> 
> Kuros
> "At what point did you forget that we're trying to take over the
> world?!" -Fluffy the Cat, from Cats & Dogs The Movie

 
  If you didn't read the LOTR cause of the way 'The Hobbit' was
written, maybe you could try the Trilogy. 'The Hobbit' is written as a
children's story(at least to me it seemed that way). The LOTR is more
adult it seems. I'm not saying you should run out and get it, I'm just
saying that the styles are different.
  
 Oh, and that's Mr Tinkles from Cats and Dogs...funny flick...my kid
wanted to see it last night.
  
Anita
 
 
 'I lie awake with the sound of the sea, calling to me.'

___________________________________________________________________
Join the Space Program: Get FREE E-mail at http://www.space.com.



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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: 
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 20:59:02 -0500
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They are slang, and therefor you can never actually used them
properly.  This is what is likely to get you into trouble with some
people.  As we told you:

1. Please quote the e-mail you reply to.
2. Please limit slang use in your letters to the Feistfan's mailing
list.
3. Please try to adhere to proper grammar, spelling, and
capitalization based on either US or UK English variations as is
most appropriate for your system and education.  If you have a
spell/grammar check system on your computer, please use it.
4. Please limit the number of one line e-mails you send.  If
possible please send several questions or comments on a single
e-mail (in text version).  This saves people time as well as
bandwidth.

-James (one of many)

----- Original Message -----
From: <IndianaJJr@aol.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 8:21 PM
Subject: Re:


> oh ray sid that u and stuff were slang so i just felt like being sarcastic
> and using the words properly
>



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Subject: Re: LOTR now
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*** EOOH ***
From: kuros@pgtv.net (kuros)
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: LOTR now
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 21:05:36 -0700
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Doh! Mr. Tinkles! I knew that. My cat's name is Fluffy, and I got them
confused. =P The rest of my family didn't like that movie, but I loved it.
They don't have my warped sense of humor, I guess.

I may try the LoTR trilogy if the movie interests me enough. It's just that
there are so many books and so little time. =( I even have a bookmark that
says that.

Kuros

"I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to my death your right
to say it." -Voltaire

----- Original Message -----
From: <dreamfish@space.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 6:59 PM
Subject: Re: LOTR now


> On Mon, 06 August 2001, kuros wrote:
>
> >
> > I have not read LoTR eithier. I read The Hobbit, and I had to make myself
> > finish it (because I refuse to start a book and not finish it, unless it is
> > *really really* horrible, such as Fiona Patton's novels). After that, I just
> > didn't read the trilogy. This is not to say that Mr. Tolkien's novels are
> > horrible, just that they're not the kind I like to read. For what it's
> > worth, Mr. Mills, I thought your remark was funny. =)
> >
> > Kuros
> > "At what point did you forget that we're trying to take over the
> > world?!" -Fluffy the Cat, from Cats & Dogs The Movie
>
>
>   If you didn't read the LOTR cause of the way 'The Hobbit' was written,
>maybe you could try the Trilogy. 'The Hobbit' is written as a children's
>story(at least to me it seemed that way). The LOTR is more adult it seems.
>I'm not saying you should run out and get it, I'm just saying that the
>styles are different.
>
>  Oh, and that's Mr Tinkles from Cats and Dogs...funny flick...my kid
>wanted to see it last night.
>
> Anita
>
>
>  'I lie awake with the sound of the sea, calling to me.'
>
> ___________________________________________________________________
> Join the Space Program: Get FREE E-mail at http://www.space.com.
>
>



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 12:13:21 +1000
From: "Jason Mulligan" <sulimo@bigpond.net.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: 
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On 7/08/2001 at 11:13 AM Anestis Kozakis wrote:

>Allan Mills wrote :
>
>>  By any chance do you understand what :) means ? It's a smiley, people
>put
>>it on the end of text so that the recipient will understand that their
>>message is meant to be taken as tounge in cheek, that they aren't really
>>serious about what they are saying.
>
>I know what a smiley is and I saw it.
>
>Even if he was joking, the statement was made, and I still take 
>exception to the statement.
>
>Let me repeat myself :
>
>"... and anyone who so much as hints that just because I haven't
>read it I must deficient somehow has to really take stock of
>themselves."
>
>I wasn't ranting per se, but making a response about how I feel to 
>the way some people think that if you read Fantasy, any type of 
>Fantasy, you must also read Lord of the Rings.
>
>I take exception to that kind of thinking, and was providing my reasons
>why.
>
>I have always asked my friends "Why?" when they keep telling me I 
>should read Lord of the Rings.  None of them have been able to give 
>me a satisfactory answer beyond "You must" or "Just because" or any 
>other number of similar reasons.
>
>Not everyone has the same tastes, thus you shouldn't be telling 
>people, even jokingly, what they should and shouldn't read.  That's 
>the statement I was trying to make.
>
>People will read what they want to read.  It's their choice.

Hmmm....I'll try and tread carefully here :)

My own stance on Tolkien is that Lord of the Rings is my all-time
favourite book. And if it wasn't for Tolkien I probably never would
have become a fiction reader. Prior to reading The Hobbit I only ever
read fiction when forced. Tolkien gave me the love of reading.

I must admit I have a similar reaction when running into fans of
fantasy who havent read Tolkien. I think 'we'll thats strange
indeed'. Its a bit like running into fans of detective or mystery
stories who havent read Agatha Christie or Arthur Conan Doyle.

That said, I seem to be running into more and more people who dont
like Tolkien's writing style, feeling the pacing is too slow and the
writing to Archaic. I had one young cousin give up on it declaring it
a chore, like reading Shakespeare.

I would suggest to anyone planning to read it at some stage, to read
it before seeing the films. That way you wont get the readers digest
version, plus a readers imagination together with Tolkiens prose can
come up with stuff infinitely better than any director could.

I certainly don't browbeat people into reading it though. Forcing
people to read something would probably make it a bad experience for
them. A bit like the bad school-days experience of Shakespeare
everyone seems to have.


Regards,
	Jason Mulligan
	(resident Tolkien fan)




 



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From: "Donna M. Jaggard" <donna@arwen.org>
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From: "Donna M. Jaggard" <donna@arwen.org>
Organization: arwen.org
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 19:11:39 -0700
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> >Well, about the only question I have, is how do you know you won't
> >like it if you've never read it? :)
> 
> That's what my friends ask me as well :-/
> 
> When I was younger I tried reading the Hobbit, and got bored very
> quickly.

Okay -- thats a halfway decent reason. :) Although, depending on 
what you mean by "younger" it may be time to give it another try. 
The only reason *I* push people to read LotR is because I think its 
fantastic -- and I want to spread my intense enjoyment of it. Same 
with Ray's works. And more recently, George R.R. Martin & Sara 
Douglass. (In fact, just finished re-reading A Clash of Kings for the 
umpteenth time and am about to read A Storm of Swords again. 
Darn good books. Go read 'em.) :) 
 
> I guess I've just never been interested in any of Tolkien's works (is
> that how you spell his name - I keep forgetting :-).

Yup, you got it right. And hey, you don't have to read it if you don't 
want to (obviously!) but the rest of us who *do* love Tolkien will 
probably keep shoving it down your throat in our efforts to spread 
our love of the whole thing. :)

> Like I said, things may change after I have seen the Trilogy.

Ech. I dunno, I'm not precisely looking forward to the movies... the 
biggest "fright" factor of the whole thing is the hyped up role of 
Arwen. If you take a look at my email address & website, you 
might notice that I have a rather close connection with the word 
myself... having used Arwen as an online alias for many many 
moons. So, having Arwen as a major character (and played by LIV 
TYLER!? Ack. They didn't even *ask* me! Hmph.) means that not 
only will people think that I'm being "trendy" by using a name from 
a movie (I hate being considered trendy...) I'm also going to run 
across seven zillion new Arwen's who *are* being trendy... 

Ah, such a tough life I have. ;) I'll still be there opening day, so long 
as that isn't the day my mother goes into labour. (How 
inconsiderate -- her due date is less than a week before opening 
day... hmph!)

on a side note, yes, I'm far too old for my mother to be having more 
children, but what can you do? Strange lady. I figure she finally 
realized where she went wrong with me and wants to put the theory 
to test... 

-d


--
Donna M. Jaggard   |   http://www.arwen.org/
donna@arwen.org    |   http://www.web-goddess.net/
By the time you swear you're his, Shivering and sighing, 
And he vows his passion is Infinite, undying 
- Lady make note of this: One of you is lying.
              - Dorothy Parker 'Unfortunate Coincidence'



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Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 12:18:47 +1000
From: "Jason Mulligan" <sulimo@bigpond.net.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: LOTR now
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On 6/08/2001 at 18:59 PM dreamfish@space.com wrote:

>On Mon, 06 August 2001, kuros wrote:
>
>> 
>> I have not read LoTR eithier. I read The Hobbit, and I had to make myself
>> finish it (because I refuse to start a book and not finish it, unless it
>is
>> *really really* horrible, such as Fiona Patton's novels). After that, I
>just
>> didn't read the trilogy. This is not to say that Mr. Tolkien's novels are
>> horrible, just that they're not the kind I like to read. For what it's
>> worth, Mr. Mills, I thought your remark was funny. =)
>> 
>> Kuros
>> "At what point did you forget that we're trying to take over the
>> world?!" -Fluffy the Cat, from Cats & Dogs The Movie
>
> 
>  If you didn't read the LOTR cause of the way 'The Hobbit' was written,
>maybe you could try the Trilogy. 'The Hobbit' is written as a children's
>story(at least to me it seemed that way). The LOTR is more adult it seems.

Yes. The Hobbit was originally a bedtime story told to Tolkien's kids.





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On Mon, 06 August 2001, kuros wrote:

> 
> Doh! Mr. Tinkles! I knew that. My cat's name is Fluffy, and I got them
> confused. =P The rest of my family didn't like that movie, but I loved it.
> They don't have my warped sense of humor, I guess.
 
 heeheehee...I was calling that cat Fluffy too, my kid keeps yelling
at me that it's MR. TINKLES...Was a funny movie, even though I'm a cat
person myself. Guess I have a warped sense of humor, also.

> 
> I may try the LoTR trilogy if the movie interests me enough. It's just that
> there are so many books and so little time. =( I even have a bookmark that
> says that.
> 
> Kuros 

  It is a good story, though I, like Donna, am a bit leary about Liv
Tyler doing the Arwen part. Seems they are expanding that character
just to show off the lovely Ms. Tyler. But I will hold off judgement
til I actually see the movie.
 
 Anita
 
 
 'I lie awake with the sound of the sea, calling to me.'

___________________________________________________________________
Join the Space Program: Get FREE E-mail at http://www.space.com.



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Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 23:07:32 -0400
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At 11:50 AM 8/7/01 +1000, you wrote:


> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Anestis Kozakis [mailto:kenosti@labyrinth.net.au]
> > Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2001 11:14 AM
> > To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > Subject: RE:
> >
> >
> >
> > I have always asked my friends "Why?" when they keep telling me I
> > should read Lord of the Rings.  None of them have been able to give
> > me a satisfactory answer beyond "You must" or "Just because" or any
> > other number of similar reasons.
> >

My feeling about reading or music is that you should try and expose 
yourself to as many different kinds of things as possible in the hopes of 
always discovering the "new" and interesting.

But, hey, if you don't want to read LOTR, you're not going to hurt MY feelings.



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Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 13:06:21 +1000
From: "Jason Mulligan" <sulimo@bigpond.net.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On 6/08/2001 at 19:54 PM dreamfish@space.com wrote:

>On Mon, 06 August 2001, kuros wrote:
>
>> 
>> Doh! Mr. Tinkles! I knew that. My cat's name is Fluffy, and I got them
>> confused. =P The rest of my family didn't like that movie, but I loved
>it.
>> They don't have my warped sense of humor, I guess.
> 
> heeheehee...I was calling that cat Fluffy too, my kid keeps yelling at me
>that it's MR. TINKLES...Was a funny movie, even though I'm a cat person
>myself. Guess I have a warped sense of humor, also.
>> 
>> I may try the LoTR trilogy if the movie interests me enough. It's just
>that
>> there are so many books and so little time. =( I even have a bookmark
>that
>> says that.
>> 
>> Kuros 
>
>  It is a good story, though I, like Donna, am a bit leary about Liv Tyler
>doing the Arwen part. Seems they are expanding that character just to show
>off the lovely Ms. Tyler. But I will hold off judgement til I actually see
>the movie. 

Of course, the latest rumours are that Liv's role has been cut back somewhat 
due to her inability to cary the role off well enough.





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Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 21:11:59 -0700
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From: "Michael Renn" <troubador7@hotmail.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re:
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 21:11:59 -0700
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Or... what was that guys name who died early in Shadow of a (the?) Dark
Queen?  Sorry, Ray, my brain has failed me.  Anyway, I sat there for half an
hour trying to figure out how you could kill someone off like that, and with
so few words....  It was incredible!

Michael
"I have taken all knowledge to be my province."  -Francis Bacon

----- Original Message -----
From: "David Christensen" <damc84@hotmail.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 5:35 PM
Subject: Re:


> *smiles* Well, as far as fantasy goes, Lord of the Rings is a must, isn't
> it? It would be sacrilege to have not read it :) as Tolkien singlehandedly
> created the genre after all. Personally, however, I only read it very
> recently, but it was good. Of course the language is different, very
> archaic, but that didn't bug me... what did though was Frodo fading into the
> background towards the end and not being the main character he's supposed to
> be. And the inane singing! :)
>
> Well, if I wanted to be a bit more specific, Ray, then how about books you
> would recommend that are in the fantasy genre? Besides LotR and the Hobbit,
> besides your stuff i've only read the Earthsea trilogies by Ursula le Guin
> and a whole lot of Dragonlance books. Don't know why I wasted my time with
> Dragonlance, though, none of the characters die realisticly. Thats part of
> the reason why I love your books Ray- your characters are actually mortal!
> Owen Greylock to name one character who died an astonishing death.
>
>
> >From: IndianaJJr@aol.com
> >Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> >To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
> >Subject: Re:
> >Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 12:36:36 EDT
> >
> >hey damc84 have you read the lord of the rings its a long book but it's
> >worth
> >reading it is a really good trilogy.
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>
>



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Thank you very much!! You have helped me greatly.





_______________________________________________________
Send a cool gift with your E-Card
http://www.bluemountain.com/giftcenter/



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Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 08:40:55 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: 
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At 12:31 PM 8/6/01 -0400, IndianaJJr@aol.com wrote:
>allan or whatever your name is are u talking to me or some one else, and u 
>and thanx is english. 

No, his name is Allan.  With a capital 'A', since
proper nouns (names and such) are always capitalized
in English.  The same applies for English.

'U' and 'thanx' are _not_ English.  They are
argot, a spoken language transcribed into phonemes
for the purpose of writing.

Also, since you are talking about a plurality of
items ("you" and "thanks") subject-verb agreement
requires a verb conjugated in the plural.  Thus:

"'u' and 'thanx' are English" would be correct
syntactically, while still being totally incorrect
conceptually.

Don't try and argue with us about what is correct
written English.  You will lose.  

The reason most of us require you to post using
the most correct English that you can, is because
there are people on this list who do not have
English as a first language.  By saying things
like "'u' and 'thanx' is english', you are doing
them a disservice.  

rip
-- 
"Standards do matter. The principles of good English are always relevant."

   -- Tony Long, copy chief, Wired News 
   -- http://www.wired.com/news/culture/0%2C1284%2C39450%2C00.html

A Poem, By Richard Williamson, in the style of Dr. Seuss:

I shant leave his elucidation to my peers,
I will not box him about the head, the ears, 
no slim olive branches nor baseball bats,
no chainsaws, hardcovers nor raging Kats.

Shall I rip his throat out with my teeth?
or count cloud-based lifeforms above the heath?

Hey, you, it's not 'u', and I am not 'i' (Very!).  
and 'l8er' won't be found in a dictionary.

rip



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At 06:38 PM 8/6/01 -0700, dreamfish@space.com wrote:

> **spoilers for the SerpentWar Saga**
> 
>  
>On Mon, 06 August 2001, Adam012882@cs.com painted a postage stamp using
>a broom by saying:
>> I remember feist mention in one of his books something about noblemen having 
>>...<snip>
>> hehehe boinking..silly
>  
> Well, if we were going to find out about a wee, stray Arutha running around, I think we would have heard about it by now. 

I suppose we could always ask him.  Any one have Ray's address
handy?

rip



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Subject: Re:ADMIN: IndianaJJr@aol.com
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A chance Ray doesn't write like this guy, otherwise he would have 
been removed from the list :) ROTFL

What a good joke... sorry, couldn't help about it.

Syl




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From: "Sonia Tabe" <sonia@nt-tech.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Lord of the Rings
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 18:44:48 +0930
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I just have to say, I read a about 3 books in the breaking up of LotR, and I
found the book boring. Sorry, but I did. I'm just sharing my opinion, as
everyone else (not really) seems to be doing it =)




----- Original Message -----
From: Anestis Kozakis <kenosti@labyrinth.net.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2001 10:43 AM
Subject: RE:


> Allan Mills wrote :
>
> >  By any chance do you understand what :) means ? It's a smiley, people put
> >it on the end of text so that the recipient will understand that their
> >message is meant to be taken as tounge in cheek, that they aren't really
> >serious about what they are saying.
>
> I know what a smiley is and I saw it.
>
> Even if he was joking, the statement was made, and I still take
> exception to the statement.
>
> Let me repeat myself :
>
> "... and anyone who so much as hints that just because I haven't
> read it I must deficient somehow has to really take stock of
> themselves."
>
> I wasn't ranting per se, but making a response about how I feel to
> the way some people think that if you read Fantasy, any type of
> Fantasy, you must also read Lord of the Rings.
>
> I take exception to that kind of thinking, and was providing my reasons why.
>
> I have always asked my friends "Why?" when they keep telling me I
> should read Lord of the Rings.  None of them have been able to give
> me a satisfactory answer beyond "You must" or "Just because" or any
> other number of similar reasons.
>
> Not everyone has the same tastes, thus you shouldn't be telling
> people, even jokingly, what they should and shouldn't read.  That's
> the statement I was trying to make.
>
> People will read what they want to read.  It's their choice.
>
> [snip]
>
> >  Allan
>
> Anestis.
> --
> kenosti@labyrinth.net.au
> "A complete list of this film's associate producers
>   is available upon request."
>     -- In End Credits for "State and Main"
>



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From: "Sonia Tabe" <sonia@nt-tech.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: The Wood Boy
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 18:52:25 +0930
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From: "Sonia Tabe" <sonia@nt-tech.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: The Wood Boy
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 18:52:25 +0930
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I just started this email to brag. I borrowed out a library book today with
a short story by Raymond Feist, called 'The Wood Boy'. I actually picked up
the compilation because I thought the title said "Legends, Eleven New Works
By The Masters of Modern Fantsay". I thought the word 'Eleven' was Elven! So
much for my eyesight. But luckily I picked it up... Otherwise I'd never have
read the story.



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From: "David Christensen" <damc84@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Lord of the Rings
Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 12:14:42 
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From: "David Christensen" <damc84@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Lord of the Rings
Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 12:14:42 
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I found the book boring too at times :) I said it was good, but I never said 
it was the best book i've ever read. Far from it, actually. However despite 
the comments made by others I still maintain anyone who likes fantasy should 
at some point read the book that, as Richard correctly said (and I stand 
corrected) popularized the genre. All fantasy has its roots there, simple as 
that- it set standards for the genre and was the first book of its kind.

Hey, i'm not going to cry if people don't go out and read it- i couldnt care 
less about them. I utterly fail to see how some people could have seen what 
they thought they saw in my words, however. You know, i read somewhere that 
the inability to see sarcasm in things is a trait commonly found in people 
suffering from some sort of mental illness and/or substance abuse. I don't 
know about that, but I do know I won't even take seriously what some people 
have said on the list. You can talk to the hand. I find it ridiculous that 
there are always a few on every discussion board that react this way to 
things, and being new to this sort of thing I found it appaling. *sigh* 
People will be people, I guess. You know, you can always just say, "One, 
two, three, four, I commence a flame war". I'll have none of that, and won't 
respond to such in the future.

One rebuke I will accept. Maybe I am suffering from some sort of english 
language deficiency if I think the language in LotR is archaic. Then again 
english isn't my first language, and maybe the person who questioned my 
english ability ought to have thought about that before saying it.

David











>From: "Sonia Tabe" <sonia@nt-tech.com.au>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
>Subject: Re: Lord of the Rings
>Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 18:44:48 +0930
>
>I just have to say, I read a about 3 books in the breaking up of LotR, and 
>I
>found the book boring. Sorry, but I did. I'm just sharing my opinion, as
>everyone else (not really) seems to be doing it =)
>
>
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Anestis Kozakis <kenosti@labyrinth.net.au>
>To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
>Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2001 10:43 AM
>Subject: RE:
>
>
> > Allan Mills wrote :
> >
> > >  By any chance do you understand what :) means ? It's a smiley, people
>put
> > >it on the end of text so that the recipient will understand that their
> > >message is meant to be taken as tounge in cheek, that they aren't 
>really
> > >serious about what they are saying.
> >
> > I know what a smiley is and I saw it.
> >
> > Even if he was joking, the statement was made, and I still take
> > exception to the statement.
> >
> > Let me repeat myself :
> >
> > "... and anyone who so much as hints that just because I haven't
> > read it I must deficient somehow has to really take stock of
> > themselves."
> >
> > I wasn't ranting per se, but making a response about how I feel to
> > the way some people think that if you read Fantasy, any type of
> > Fantasy, you must also read Lord of the Rings.
> >
> > I take exception to that kind of thinking, and was providing my reasons
>why.
> >
> > I have always asked my friends "Why?" when they keep telling me I
> > should read Lord of the Rings.  None of them have been able to give
> > me a satisfactory answer beyond "You must" or "Just because" or any
> > other number of similar reasons.
> >
> > Not everyone has the same tastes, thus you shouldn't be telling
> > people, even jokingly, what they should and shouldn't read.  That's
> > the statement I was trying to make.
> >
> > People will read what they want to read.  It's their choice.
> >
> > [snip]
> >
> > >  Allan
> >
> > Anestis.
> > --
> > kenosti@labyrinth.net.au
> > "A complete list of this film's associate producers
> >   is available upon request."
> >     -- In End Credits for "State and Main"
> >
>


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp



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From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
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If you are going to read Dumas' Musketeer series, read "The Vicomte De 
Bragelonne" and "Louis De La Vallere" before concluding with "The Man in the 
Iron Mask," else you are missing a good chunk of the story.

Adieu

Jimmy

>From: "Sylvain Guehl" <fenyxkell@demo.xandmail.com>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
>Subject: Re:
>Date: Mon,  6 Aug 2001 21:52:14 +0200
>
> > The Three Musketeers, The Man in the Iron Mask, and 20 Years After
> > by Alexandre Dumas
>
>VERY VERY good choice Ray :)
>
>Syl
>


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp



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From: "Ryan Dragon" <rdragon@westerncom.net>
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Subject: RE: 
Date: Sat, 7 Aug 1999 07:44:12 -0500
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From: "Ryan Dragon" <rdragon@westerncom.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: 
Date: Sat, 7 Aug 1999 07:44:12 -0500
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I'm reading the trilogy right now.  I just read the Riftwar Saga for the
first time, and thought it was excellent.  I thought I would give LOTR a
try because everyone says to.  To tell the truth, I can't get into it.
Hopefully it gets better (I'm just starting Book II in Fellowship of the
Ring).  As soon as I'm done with the first book, I think I'm going to
try The Empire Series.  I don't know what it is about LOTR so far.  I
can't stand all the singing, just seems more like a kids book, kinda
like The Hobbit (which I was told LOTR was nothing like it - more for
adults).

Ryan


-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Anestis Kozakis
>Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 6:59 PM
>To: FEISTFANS-L
>Subject: Re:
>
>David Christensen wrote :
>
>>*smiles* Well, as far as fantasy goes, Lord of the Rings is a must, 
>>isn't it? It would be sacrilege to have not read it :)
>
>[snip rest]
>
>Why is it sacrilege to not have read Lord of the Rings?
>
>I haven't read LotR.  Does that make me sacrilegious?
>
>A lot of people already think I'm weird because I read Ray's works, I 
>enjoy watching Buffy, I like Sluggy Freelance 
>(http://www.sluggy.com), I play RPGs, I play computer games, I like 
>reading Fantasy and SF books in general, I like watching The West 
>Wing, The Practice, Quantum Leap, Picket Fences, and because of many 
>other things I do.
>
>So I haven't read LotR.  Does that make any more weird?
>
>Why must I read LotR?  Just to please you?
>
>I'm sorry, but not everyone has the same taste as you, and no two 
>people have exactly the same tastes.
>
>LotR has never interested me.  I have had friends hounding me for 
>years to read it, but I have never bowed in to the pressure.  I just 
>smile, nod, and say "Maybe at some stage I'll read it".
>
>And maybe I will, after I see the Trilogy of Movies.  Maybe I won't. 
>I haven't decided, but at this stage in my life, LotR is not my cup 
>of tea, and anyone who so much as hints that just because I haven't 
>read it I must deficient somehow has to really take stock of 
>themselves.
>
>Please choose your words carefully in the future.
>
>Anestis.
>
>-- 
>kenosti@labyrinth.net.au
>"A complete list of this film's associate producers
>  is available upon request."
>    -- In End Credits for "State and Main"
>


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Subject: OT: Cats & Dogs (Was Re: LOTR now)
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 18:15:50 +1000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Barker" <heechee@softhome.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: OT: Cats & Dogs (Was Re: LOTR now)
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 18:15:50 +1000
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----- Original Message -----
From: <dreamfish@space.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2001 12:54 PM
Subject: Re: LOTR now


> On Mon, 06 August 2001, kuros wrote:
>
> >
> > Doh! Mr. Tinkles! I knew that. My cat's name is Fluffy, and I got them
> > confused. =P The rest of my family didn't like that movie, but I loved it.
> > They don't have my warped sense of humor, I guess.
>
>  heeheehee...I was calling that cat Fluffy too, my kid keeps yelling at me
>that it's MR. TINKLES...Was a funny movie, even though I'm a cat person
>myself. Guess I have a warped sense of humor, also.

It hasn't been released in Australia yet (I think) but as soon as I saw that
little Russian kitten saying, "I think not, baby puppy... It is you who is
in trouble" I decided that I had to see it... <BG>

Cheers,
James



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From: "Stout, JonathanX" <jonathanx.stout@intel.com>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" (FEISTFANS-L) <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: The Wood Boy
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 14:37:23 +0100 
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Stout, JonathanX" <jonathanx.stout@intel.com>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" (FEISTFANS-L) <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: The Wood Boy
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 14:37:23 +0100 
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

That's alright Sonia, When I was reading your mail I thought it said Elven
aswell, and I was thinking how good that sounded!!!!

-----Original Message-----
>From: Sonia Tabe [mailto:sonia@nt-tech.com.au]
>Sent: 07 August 2001 10:22
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: The Wood Boy
>
>
>I just started this email to brag. I borrowed out a library book today with
>a short story by Raymond Feist, called 'The Wood Boy'. I actually picked up
>the compilation because I thought the title said "Legends, Eleven New Works
>By The Masters of Modern Fantsay". I thought the word 'Eleven' was Elven! So
>much for my eyesight. But luckily I picked it up... Otherwise I'd never have
>read the story.
>


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From: Michael Holzer <epicmike@yahoo.com>
Subject: Lord Of The Rings
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 15:41:16 +0200 (CEST)
From: Michael Holzer <epicmike@yahoo.com>
Subject: Lord Of The Rings
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Hi there! 

I'm currently reading "The Fellowship Of The Ring" and
find it quite nice. I'm just about half through it,
but enjoy it much. Can't wait to read on and see how
Frodo, Gandalf, Bilbo, Sam,.. find a way through all
of this terror.

Well, it's quite different from REF's works, but still
it's worth reading! :)

Damn, there was one thing in LOTR which i think was
taken by REF for something in Midkemia (like a name or
so). Or perhaps just one scene in a book or so...can't
remember.

If I do, i will anyway ask about it on this list! :)

Have a nice day,

Mike

====I feel a change...back to a better day...hair stands on the back of my neck...in wilderness is the preservation of the world...so seek the wolf in thyself!

__________________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Gesendet von Yahoo! Mail - http://mail.yahoo.de



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From: "Natalie Henderson" <natz101@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT: Cats & Dogs (Was Re: LOTR now)
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*** EOOH ***
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From: "Natalie Henderson" <natz101@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT: Cats & Dogs (Was Re: LOTR now)
Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 13:53:04 +0000
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>From: "James Barker" Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu To: (FEISTFANS-L) 
>Subject: OT: Cats & Dogs (Was Re: LOTR now) Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 18:15:50 
>+1000
>
>
>----- Original Message ----- From: To: FEISTFANS-L Sent: Tuesday, August 
>07, 2001 12:54 PM Subject: Re: LOTR now
>
>
> > On Mon, 06 August 2001, kuros wrote: > > > > > Doh! Mr. Tinkles! I knew 
>that. My cat's name is Fluffy, and I got them > > confused. =P The rest of 
>my family didn't like that movie, but I loved it. > > They don't have my 
>warped sense of humor, I guess. > > heeheehee...I was calling that cat 
>Fluffy too, my kid keeps yelling at me that it's MR. TINKLES...Was a funny 
>movie, even though I'm a cat person myself. Guess I have a warped sense of 
>humor, also.
>
>It hasn't been released in Australia yet (I think) but as soon as I saw 
>that little Russian kitten saying, "I think not, baby puppy... It is you 
>who is in trouble" I decided that I had to see it...
>
>Cheers, James
>

tell me about it!! That just has to be one of the best scenes in a trailer 
I've seen!! It makes me laugh every time I see it. :)

Natalie

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp



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To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
References: <81DE312734A4D211AC4100A0C9DFACAF053A9120@irsmsx36.ir.intel.com>
Subject: Re: The Wood Boy
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*** EOOH ***
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: "Sonia Tabe" <sonia@nt-tech.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: The Wood Boy
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 23:36:37 +0930
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Glad I'm not the only silly one around here... Hehe. =Þ
I feel better now! =D


----- Original Message -----
From: Stout, JonathanX <jonathanx.stout@intel.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2001 11:07 PM
Subject: RE: The Wood Boy


> That's alright Sonia, When I was reading your mail I thought it said Elven
> aswell, and I was thinking how good that sounded!!!!
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sonia Tabe [mailto:sonia@nt-tech.com.au]
> Sent: 07 August 2001 10:22
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Subject: The Wood Boy
>
>
> I just started this email to brag. I borrowed out a library book today with
> a short story by Raymond Feist, called 'The Wood Boy'. I actually picked up
> the compilation because I thought the title said "Legends, Eleven New Works
> By The Masters of Modern Fantsay". I thought the word 'Eleven' was Elven! So
> much for my eyesight. But luckily I picked it up... Otherwise I'd never have
> read the story.
>



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Subject: RE: Lord Of The Rings
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Stout, JonathanX" <jonathanx.stout@intel.com>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" (FEISTFANS-L) <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Lord Of The Rings
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 15:22:51 +0100 
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I have tried to read LOTR 3 or 4 times (never finished it) and found it
similar to Robert Jordan, in that it was very long winded and didn't grip me
at all. I did like some of the characters but you could read chapters
without anything worthwhile happening. They travelled and then travelled,
then travelled some more, I was waiting for him to write about how many
steps it took.
There's a lot to be said for character and plot development, but it
contained too many insignificant chapters to hold my attention.
I got to the last book each time and just gave up, crying my frustrations
onto the pages of the next Feist novel I picked up, until those well worn
pages renewed my love for literature.

-----Original Message-----
>From: Michael Holzer [mailto:epicmike@yahoo.com]
>Sent: 07 August 2001 14:41
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: Lord Of The Rings
>
>
>Hi there! 
>
>I'm currently reading "The Fellowship Of The Ring" and
>find it quite nice. I'm just about half through it,
>but enjoy it much. Can't wait to read on and see how
>Frodo, Gandalf, Bilbo, Sam,.. find a way through all
>of this terror.
>
>Well, it's quite different from REF's works, but still
>it's worth reading! :)
>
>Damn, there was one thing in LOTR which i think was
>taken by REF for something in Midkemia (like a name or
>so). Or perhaps just one scene in a book or so...can't
>remember.
>
>If I do, i will anyway ask about it on this list! :)
>
>Have a nice day,
>
>Mike
>
>=====
>I feel a change...back to a better day...hair stands on the back of my
>neck...in wilderness is the preservation of the world...so seek the wolf in
>thyself!
>
>__________________________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Gesendet von Yahoo! Mail - http://mail.yahoo.de
>


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From: "Stout, JonathanX" <jonathanx.stout@intel.com>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" (FEISTFANS-L) <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Kelewan from Midkemia
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 15:26:14 +0100 
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Stout, JonathanX" <jonathanx.stout@intel.com>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" (FEISTFANS-L) <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Kelewan from Midkemia
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 15:26:14 +0100 
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Didn't the Great Ones learn of the history of their world from their
training, so I presume they would have a hand in the education of those
living on Kelewan, so they would know of stars galaxies etc.

-----Original Message-----
>From: Allan Mills [mailto:milla@css.com.au]
>Sent: 06 August 2001 05:29
>To: 'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'
>Subject: RE: Kelewan from Midkemia
>
>
>
>> >
>> >  My point was that Mara doesn't believe that Midkemia is orbiting 
>> > around one
>> > of the stars that she can see in the sky at night. She believes the 
>> > stars
>> > are where the Gods live and presumably doesn't understand 
>> that the sun 
>> > is a
>> > star. If that belief was a common Tsurani belief then why would a 
>> > Tsurani
>> > solider be wondering if he could see the star of Kelewan 
>> from Midkemia.
>> >
>> >  Allan
>> >
>> >
>> Ah, now I see.
>> 
>> Like every Tsurani on the planet must share the same belief 
>> system?  As 
>> if every person on Earth does?
>> 
>> 
>> Best, R.E.F.
>> ----
>> 
>> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be 
>> explained away by 
>> stupidity.
>> 
>> 
>
> Ah, ok. I had just assumed it was a common Tsurani belief/misconception.
>She seemed to think the idea of Midkemia being out amongst the stars was
>ludicrous. Since most of the Tsurani seem to bound to the same beliefs I
>assumed others would think the same. More to the point it seemed to be a
>matter of education, that the Tsurani just didn't know that their sun is a
>star at close range. Or at least if someone was going to know that it would
>be the educated nobility. Thanks for the clarification.
>
> Allan

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From: "Stout, JonathanX" <jonathanx.stout@intel.com>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" (FEISTFANS-L) <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: The Wood Boy
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 15:45:12 +0100 
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Stout, JonathanX" <jonathanx.stout@intel.com>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" (FEISTFANS-L) <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: The Wood Boy
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 15:45:12 +0100 
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

It would be great though, a whole book with Elven stories written by the
leading fantasy writers of today

-----Original Message-----
>From: Sonia Tabe [mailto:sonia@nt-tech.com.au]
>Sent: 07 August 2001 15:07
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: Re: The Wood Boy
>
>
>Glad I'm not the only silly one around here... Hehe. =Þ
>I feel better now! =D
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Stout, JonathanX <jonathanx.stout@intel.com>
>To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
>Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2001 11:07 PM
>Subject: RE: The Wood Boy
>
>
>> That's alright Sonia, When I was reading your mail I thought it said Elven
>> aswell, and I was thinking how good that sounded!!!!
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Sonia Tabe [mailto:sonia@nt-tech.com.au]
>> Sent: 07 August 2001 10:22
>> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>> Subject: The Wood Boy
>>
>>
>> I just started this email to brag. I borrowed out a library book today with
>> a short story by Raymond Feist, called 'The Wood Boy'. I actually picked up
>> the compilation because I thought the title said "Legends, Eleven New Works
>> By The Masters of Modern Fantsay". I thought the word 'Eleven' was Elven! So
>> much for my eyesight. But luckily I picked it up... Otherwise I'd never have
>> read the story.
>>
>


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Subject: RE: Lord Of The Rings
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X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 5.0.5  September 22, 2000
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From: "Gary Stenhouse" <STENGAR@uk.ibm.com>
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 16:06:59 +0100
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Subject: RE: Lord Of The Rings
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: "Gary Stenhouse" <STENGAR@uk.ibm.com>
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 16:06:59 +0100
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Hi all.

Lord of The Rings  I honestly thought it was a hard read and a bit
laborious.  The only reason I read it was really to say when topics came up
about it that ihad read it.  I think the general consensus on "lord of the
Rings" is that its the fantasy bible.

On another topic when i originally started in this job we had to stand up
and tell something about the person sitting beside us bit silly but there
you go.  The person who stood up to talk about me was a Belgian Fellow and
I told him i was into Fantasy books big style.  Well he stood up and told
about 40 people that I was into Adult Fiction! and ofcourse everyone took
it the wrong way including me.  Should have seen the looks I got for the
next 3 weeks.! lol

Thanks & Kind Regards

Gary J Stenhouse
Customer Service Rep.
Software Enquiry Desk
SC Ireland 68620
00353 (0) 18154000
IBM.COM Service Centre EMEA

www.ibm.com/ie

"He who knows it all is either very wise
or very foolish, either way he is disappointed
Because he has stolen away the heart of wonder"

"Tad Williams"




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From: "Sonia Tabe" <sonia@nt-tech.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
References: <81DE312734A4D211AC4100A0C9DFACAF053A912E@irsmsx36.ir.intel.com>
Subject: Re: The Wood Boy
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 00:46:31 +0930
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*** EOOH ***
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: "Sonia Tabe" <sonia@nt-tech.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: The Wood Boy
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 00:46:31 +0930
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Now that's an Idea. Have my people call your people j/k.


----- Original Message -----
From: Stout, JonathanX <jonathanx.stout@intel.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2001 12:15 AM
Subject: RE: The Wood Boy


> It would be great though, a whole book with Elven stories written by the
> leading fantasy writers of today
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sonia Tabe [mailto:sonia@nt-tech.com.au]
> Sent: 07 August 2001 15:07
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Subject: Re: The Wood Boy
>
>
> Glad I'm not the only silly one around here... Hehe. =Þ
> I feel better now! =D
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Stout, JonathanX <jonathanx.stout@intel.com>
> To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2001 11:07 PM
> Subject: RE: The Wood Boy
>
>
> > That's alright Sonia, When I was reading your mail I thought it said Elven
> > aswell, and I was thinking how good that sounded!!!!
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Sonia Tabe [mailto:sonia@nt-tech.com.au]
> > Sent: 07 August 2001 10:22
> > To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > Subject: The Wood Boy
> >
> >
> > I just started this email to brag. I borrowed out a library book today
> with
> > a short story by Raymond Feist, called 'The Wood Boy'. I actually picked
> up
> > the compilation because I thought the title said "Legends, Eleven New
> Works
> > By The Masters of Modern Fantsay". I thought the word 'Eleven' was Elven!
> So
> > much for my eyesight. But luckily I picked it up... Otherwise I'd never
> have
> > read the story.
> >
>



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From: "Charles P. Shelton" <cs6z@ece.cmu.edu>
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Subject: Re: Moons and Size of Midkemia
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Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 11:54:03 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
From: "Charles P. Shelton" <cs6z@ece.cmu.edu>
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On Mon, 6 Aug 2001 Adam012882@cs.com wrote:

> In a message dated 8/6/01 5:46:30 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
> dreamfish@space.com writes:
> 
>  > If Arutha was the type to boink indiscriminantly, then it would
>  > have been put in the books.  It wasn't there, so I think you are
>  > over stretching your case.
>   
>   I agree with this. I think if Arutha was 'boinking' anyone, we would have 
> read about it. Also, Arutha just didn't seem to have time to go off boinking! 
> He was a very young man at the start of the RiftWar, and then he met Anita. I 
> think it would be completely out of character for him to even look at anyone 
> else after they met. One of the big deals with the two of them is the great 
> love they have for each other. 
>   
>   Anita >>
>    
> I remember feist mention in one of his books something about noblemen having 
> basterd children running around the castle. thats why i brought up the 
> subject. I mean comeon noble men were like todays rockstars and movie stars 
> or like the nsync boyband, all the girls want a piece of them and if nsync 
> were child molesters they would sleep with all of them. just like in the 
> middle ages, the nobles would start looking fo some action, a maid happens to 
> pass by , he tells her to go in his chamber and help hiself to her. she wont 
> refuse because she thinks its an honor to sleep with royalty. Arutha was 
> around 18 when the riftwar started, so he had lots of time to mess around 
> befor that. even if he doesnt seem like the person who would do somthing like 
> that , he might have been immature then matured  later on just befor  the 
> riftwar started or was forced to mature because of the riftwar. Borric didnt 
> seem ike the type to fool around befor he got married but he did. we didnt 
> know that martin was borrics son till book 2 of the riftwar saga. maybe we'll 
> find out that aruth has a basterd son in one of feists up coming novels.  
> hehehe boinking..silly
> 

I don't think Arutha is the type to "sow his wild oats" (an expression for
fooling around with many different women when you're young and single) 
His characterization from the start of Magician was very reserved and
concerned about duty.  The fact that he wasn't very social was shown to
contrast him with his brother Lyam.  You can see in his first few
interactions with Anita before getting married that he's uncomfortable
with the opposite sex (or at least he was so head over heels in love with
Anita that made him uncomfortable).  I just don't think he ever thought
seriously about women until he fell in love with Anita.  He was always
concerned with his duty as a nobleman of the Kingdom. 

Also, there is a passage in Prince of the Blood that mentions how Arutha
and Anita are soulmates and were lucky to find each other.  Kulgan
mentions that their marriage was based on real love, and not just a state
marriage to strengthen political ties.  Again this is in contrast with
Lyam, who had to marry the Princess of Roldem for diplomatic reasons when
he was king.  I think the part you remember about noblemen having bastard
children was refering to Lyam, since he was in a marriage of convenience,
and was king, and liked the ladies.  I believe that was also in Prince of
the Blood, when discussing that Lyam's son died young, and Borric and
Erland would be heirs to the kingdom despite Lyam having bastard children. 

To sum up I think given the evidence above and the fact that it's not
mentioned at all in the books, I think Arutha remained true to Anita and
even before Anita didn't sire any bastards who will come around later to
claim the crown.

Of course that's just my opinion, and I could be wrong. :)

If you got this far, thanks for reading!

Charles



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 08:53:04 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
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On Tuesday, August 7, 2001, at 05:22 AM, James Silva wrote:

>
> If you are going to read Dumas' Musketeer series, read "The Vicomte De 
> Bragelonne" and "Louis De La Vallere" before concluding with "The Man 
> in the Iron Mask," else you are missing a good chunk of the story.
>

If memory serves, those two volumes were combined into Twenty Years 
After.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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From: Jeff Schreier <schreierj@yahoo.com>
Subject: Gray Assassin
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 09:10:30 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jeff Schreier <schreierj@yahoo.com>
Subject: Gray Assassin
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I just recently joined the list and just recently
obtained a copy of profit and the gray assassin.  I
was lucky enough to read the short story after having
read all of Feist's current novels (except for
honoured enemy - on the way from amazon.co.uk) and
noticed some interesting things - particularly with
the serpentwar saga ....

First, I found it pretty neat that earth is attached
to the Hall of Worlds - the merchant in the short
story had bought a wristwatch which told the time in
Tokyo, and Profit had traveled through Cincinatti ...
is there any other incidents of contact between the
universe in which Midkemia is based and earth?

Also, Stardock is mentioned -- obviously this is after
the first riftwar -- second, Pug apparently hired the
"Gray Assassin" as one of three to prevent anyone from
following him and does specifically mention that the
gray assassin has the death touch ...

** SPOILER about the short story















As the Gray Assassin dies in the short story - this
would imply that the short story comes after the
incidents in the serpentwar saga ... 


Thanks,
Jeff

__________________________________________________
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 18:48:50 +0100
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Jeff Schreier <schreierj@yahoo.com> writes
>I just recently joined the list and just recently
>obtained a copy of profit and the gray assassin.  I
>was lucky enough to read the short story after having
>read all of Feist's current novels (except for
>honoured enemy - on the way from amazon.co.uk) and
>noticed some interesting things - particularly with
>the serpentwar saga ....
Hi Jeff, you got here then :)

Did you see the finishing price of the DOE ? $80+
-- 
John

john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.

Raymond E Feist Ring
http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm



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Subject: Re: Gray Assassin
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 11:30:52 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jeff Schreier <schreierj@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Gray Assassin
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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Yup - found the list :)  I am guessing there is no way
to get digest, eh?

I did notice that it went for 81 ... higher than I
expected ...

Has anyone on the list used the midkemia rpg
supplements?  Is there a magic system detailed within?
 From what I understand, it was based on the old D&D
(which had nothing like greater and lesser paths and
doesn't seem to involve memorizing spells)  I don't
think I'd ever play but am considering picking them up
when possible...

Thanks,
Jeff


--- John <john@crydee.com> wrote:
> Jeff Schreier <schreierj@yahoo.com> writes
> >I just recently joined the list and just recently
> >obtained a copy of profit and the gray assassin.  I
> >was lucky enough to read the short story after
> having
> >read all of Feist's current novels (except for
> >honoured enemy - on the way from amazon.co.uk) and
> >noticed some interesting things - particularly with
> >the serpentwar saga ....
> Hi Jeff, you got here then :)
> 
> Did you see the finishing price of the DOE ? $80+
> -- 
> John
> 
> john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and
> shelves to fill,
> http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books,
> just fit the bill.
> 
> Raymond E Feist Ring
> http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm
> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger
http://phonecard.yahoo.com/



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 11:49:50 -0700 (PDT)
From: Terry Corbett <terrylc_69@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE:
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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I'm probably a few days behind since I had over 100
e-mails waiting for me. :)  So, excuse this if this
has already been said.

I'm not the type of person to tell someone what they
should or should not read.  However, I have suggested
the Hobbit and Lord of the Rings to many people.  Why?
 Because they are great books.  Also, writers like
Robert Jordan and even Fay Feist have been called "in
the tradition of Tolkien", so I figured that people
who like writers like that would like to read LotR and
vice versa.  I have no idea how many times I've said
"Well, if you like Tolkien, you'll love Robert
Jordan", though now I usually say Raymond E. Feist now
instead. :)  I've never met anyone who enjoyed fantasy
books and didn't like Tolkien.  Also, a lot of fantasy
writers have borrowed some ideas and concepts from
Tolkien, so having read Tolkien, I believe, has given
me a greater understanding of those writers.  Even my
favorite online RPG, EverQuest, has borrowed
significantly from Tolkien.  One example is that one
of the playable races is the Halflings, people who
look like humans that are around the size of dwarves
and who have hairy feet.  Now, if that's not a hobbit,
then I know nothing about fantasy. :)

Terry Corbett

P.S. I've turned off my HTML.  I had no idea tha HTML
caused so many problems for some of you, except of
course when Yahoo acts up and puts all of the code in
without the formatting.  Stupid Yahoo....

   Anestis Kozakis  wrote: Allan Mills wrote :> By any
chance do you understand what :) means ? It's a
smiley, people put>it on the end of text so that the
recipient will understand that their>message is meant
to be taken as tounge in cheek, that they aren't
really>serious about what they are saying.I know what
a smiley is and I saw it.Even if he was joking, the
statement was made, and I still take exception to the
statement.Let me repeat myself :"... and anyone who so
much as hints that just because I haven'tread it I
must deficient somehow has to really take stock
ofthemselves."I wasn't ranting per se, but making a
response about how I feel to the way some people think
that if you read Fantasy, any type of Fantasy, you
must also read Lord of the Rings.I take exception to
that kind of thinking, and was providing my reasons
why.I have always asked my friends "Why?" when they
keep telling me I should read Lord of the Rings. None
of them have been able to give me a satisfactory
answer beyond "You must" or "Just because" or any
other number of similar reasons.Not everyone has the
same tastes, thus you shouldn't be telling people,
even jokingly, what they should and shouldn't read.
That's the statement I was trying to make.People will
read what they want to read. It's their choice.[snip]>
AllanAnestis.-- kenosti@labyrinth.net.au"A complete
list of this film's associate producersis available
upon request."-- In End Credits for "State and Main"

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger
http://phonecard.yahoo.com/



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From: "Cameron Duncan" <cduncan@amadeus.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: The Wood Boy
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 08:23:04 +1000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Cameron Duncan" <cduncan@amadeus.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: The Wood Boy
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 08:23:04 +1000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Damm, that got me too!
(And I own 3 or 4 copies of the book)

Cameron

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Stout, JonathanX
> Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2001 23:37
> To: 'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu' (FEISTFANS-L)
> Subject: RE: The Wood Boy
>
>
> That's alright Sonia, When I was reading your mail I thought it said Elven
> aswell, and I was thinking how good that sounded!!!!
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sonia Tabe [mailto:sonia@nt-tech.com.au]
> Sent: 07 August 2001 10:22
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Subject: The Wood Boy
>
>
> I just started this email to brag. I borrowed out a library book
> today with
> a short story by Raymond Feist, called 'The Wood Boy'. I actually
> picked up
> the compilation because I thought the title said "Legends, Eleven
> New Works
> By The Masters of Modern Fantsay". I thought the word 'Eleven'
> was Elven! So
> much for my eyesight. But luckily I picked it up... Otherwise I'd
> never have
> read the story.
>
>



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From: "Julie Wootten" <wootten@xtra.co.nz>
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References: <000001bee0d2$8d81ca80$88d3f018@westerncom.net>
Subject: OT: LOTR
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 10:25:01 +1200
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Julie Wootten" <wootten@xtra.co.nz>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: OT: LOTR
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 10:25:01 +1200
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> I thought I would give LOTR a
> try because everyone says to.  To tell the truth, I can't get into it.
> Hopefully it gets better (I'm just starting Book II in Fellowship of the
> Ryan

I was talking to a friend of mine not so long ago about LOTR - since
she loves it, and it bores me - and she encouraged me to read past
the first book, since in her opinion, it's the third book that really rocks.
Personally... there's a lot of really interesting books by authors I
enjoy that I have yet to read, so I've headed that way rather than
continue with LOTR.  This way, I'm more likely to enjoy the films too,
since I'll have few prior expectations.
But if you've gotten as far as the second, it's not a large stretch to read
the
third, and it might just be as good as she says.

Julie.



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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Barker" <heechee@softhome.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: 
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 10:25:55 +1000
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----- Original Message ----- 
From: Terry Corbett <terrylc_69@yahoo.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2001 4:49 AM
Subject: RE:


> I'm probably a few days behind since I had over 100
> e-mails waiting for me. :)  So, excuse this if this
> has already been said.
> 
> I'm not the type of person to tell someone what they
> should or should not read.  However, I have suggested
> the Hobbit and Lord of the Rings to many people.  Why?
>  Because they are great books.  Also, writers like
> Robert Jordan and even Fay Feist have been called "in
> the tradition of Tolkien", so I figured that people
> who like writers like that would like to read LotR and
> vice versa.  I have no idea how many times I've said
> "Well, if you like Tolkien, you'll love Robert
> Jordan", though now I usually say Raymond E. Feist now
> instead. :)  I've never met anyone who enjoyed fantasy
> books and didn't like Tolkien.  

Now you have.

Cheers,
James



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Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 19:59:51 -0500
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 19:59:51 -0500
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: feistfans-l@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: hullo, question here
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Finally dived headlong into the Riftwar novels a couple of weeks ago,
and in that span, I've read Magician: Apprentice & Master, Silverthorn,
Darkness at Sethanon, Prince of the Blood, King's Bucc.
Atleast I won't have to stop but for a couple of days, since I've got
the entire Empire trilogy & three of the 4 Serpentwar Saga books coming
already.
Thankfully, after that :), I've already got the three Krondor books
waiting for me as well.

Anyways, I've got a question: I've been trying to find out which books
are upcoming, and I found out Honoured Enemy has been released in the
UK, but not in the US!?
That seemed awfully odd to me, and I've yet to find a spot on the web
that listed a US release date.

Anybody got one for me? And any dates for any of the other upcoming
books?

Craig J. Ries



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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Barker" <heechee@softhome.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: hullo, question here
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 11:18:53 +1000
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----- Original Message -----
From: Craig J. Ries <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L <feistfans-l@cornell.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2001 10:59 AM
Subject: hullo, question here

> Anyways, I've got a question: I've been trying to find out which books
> are upcoming, and I found out Honoured Enemy has been released in the
> UK, but not in the US!?
> That seemed awfully odd to me, and I've yet to find a spot on the web
> that listed a US release date.

That's because there isn't one. According to Ray, problems with the
publishers mean that Honoured Enemy will not be published in the US for a
long time, if at all. If you want Honoured Enemy, your best bet would be to
try www.amazon.co.uk and order the British version.

Cheers,
James



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From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
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Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 21:27:06 -0400
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From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
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Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 21:27:06 -0400
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Actually, "Twenty Years After" is the second book in the series of five. The 
two books I mentioned are sometimes combined into a single volume entitled, 
"Ten Years After." This can be confusing as it is ten years after the book 
entitled "Twenty Years After." So, in effect, "Ten Years After" takes place 
30 years after "The Three Musketeers." More often than not, however, you 
will see it in the two volumes that I mentioned, at least in the US.

Adieu

Jimmy


>From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
>Subject: Re:
>Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 08:53:04 -0700
>
>
>On Tuesday, August 7, 2001, at 05:22 AM, James Silva wrote:
>
>>
>>If you are going to read Dumas' Musketeer series, read "The Vicomte De
>>Bragelonne" and "Louis De La Vallere" before concluding with "The Man
>>in the Iron Mask," else you are missing a good chunk of the story.
>>
>
>If memory serves, those two volumes were combined into Twenty Years
>After.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
>stupidity.
>


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp



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Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 23:13:41 -0500
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: hullo, question here
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James Barker wrote:
> 
> That's because there isn't one. According to Ray, problems with the
> publishers mean that Honoured Enemy will not be published in the US for a
> long time, if at all. If you want Honoured Enemy, your best bet would be to
> try www.amazon.co.uk and order the British version.

Well, that entirely sucks. *sigh*
Last thing I need is different copies of books from different countries
:)
Ahh well, I'll survive I suppose.

Thanks for the info. Hopefully something good will come of the situation
sooner than later.

Craig J. Ries



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To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" (FEISTFANS-L) <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: hullo, question here
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From: Allan Mills <milla@css.com.au>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" (FEISTFANS-L) <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: hullo, question here
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 14:22:27 +1000 
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 It's likely that some of the US bookstores will simply import the book.
They aren't allowed to do this normally but if there is no US publisher they
can.

 Allan

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Craig J. Ries [mailto:cries@yifan.net]
> Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2001 2:14 PM
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Subject: Re: hullo, question here
> 
> 
> James Barker wrote:
> > 
> > That's because there isn't one. According to Ray, problems with the
> > publishers mean that Honoured Enemy will not be published 
> in the US for a
> > long time, if at all. If you want Honoured Enemy, your best 
> bet would be to
> > try www.amazon.co.uk and order the British version.
> 
> Well, that entirely sucks. *sigh*
> Last thing I need is different copies of books from different 
> countries
> :)
> Ahh well, I'll survive I suppose.
> 
> Thanks for the info. Hopefully something good will come of 
> the situation
> sooner than later.
> 
> Craig J. Ries
> 
> 



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From: John <john@crydee.com>
Subject: Re: Gray Assassin
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Jeff Schreier <schreierj@yahoo.com> writes
>Yup - found the list :)  I am guessing there is no way
>to get digest, eh?

There is a way but I can't remember how IIRC you can send a HELP message 
to the listproc.
You may also have the info in the joining message if you got one
>
>Has anyone on the list used the midkemia rpg
>supplements?  Is there a magic system detailed within?
> From what I understand, it was based on the old D&D
>(which had nothing like greater and lesser paths and
>doesn't seem to involve memorizing spells)  I don't
>think I'd ever play but am considering picking them up
>when possible...

Ray hopefully has,
-- 
John

john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.

Raymond E Feist Ring
http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm



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From: kuros@pgtv.net (kuros)
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: 
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 23:57:26 -0700
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Now you've met two. =P

<points to his Tolkien Disliker's Official Pin>

Kuros
"Tonight, Pinky, we take over the world!" -The Brain
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "James Barker" <heechee@softhome.net>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2001 5:25 PM
Subject: Re: 


> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: Terry Corbett <terrylc_69@yahoo.com>
> To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2001 4:49 AM
> Subject: RE:
> 
> 
> > I'm probably a few days behind since I had over 100
> > e-mails waiting for me. :)  So, excuse this if this
> > has already been said.
> > 
> > I'm not the type of person to tell someone what they
> > should or should not read.  However, I have suggested
> > the Hobbit and Lord of the Rings to many people.  Why?
> >  Because they are great books.  Also, writers like
> > Robert Jordan and even Fay Feist have been called "in
> > the tradition of Tolkien", so I figured that people
> > who like writers like that would like to read LotR and
> > vice versa.  I have no idea how many times I've said
> > "Well, if you like Tolkien, you'll love Robert
> > Jordan", though now I usually say Raymond E. Feist now
> > instead. :)  I've never met anyone who enjoyed fantasy
> > books and didn't like Tolkien.  
> 
> Now you have.
> 
> Cheers,
> James
> 
> 



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From: "A Irving" <aignome@dingoblue.net.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
References: <rK8AruGCoCc7EwQ6@cableinet.co.uk><20010807183052.6319.qmail@web14204.mail.yahoo.com> <7Vy0MpB7JMc7EwT6@cableinet.co.uk>
Subject: Information for Newbies (was Re: Gray Assassin)
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 15:20:58 +1000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "A Irving" <aignome@dingoblue.net.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Information for Newbies (was Re: Gray Assassin)
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 15:20:58 +1000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

From: John <john@crydee.com>
> There is a way but I can't remember how IIRC you can send a HELP message
> to the listproc.
> You may also have the info in the joining message if you got one
> Ray hopefully has,
> John
> john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
> http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.
I will pass on the information to newbies, but unfortunately it does not
have how to set to the digest format, also Honoured Enemy has now been
released aswell.
I remember it being something along the lines of SET FEISTFANS-L MAILING
LIST ACK DIGEST (But i am just guessing from something I saw a year or so
ago)
============================================================================
=
FEISTFANS-L Information for Newbies

Created by Mark Drake.
Currently maintained by Ray Chiang.

Last modified Tuesday, March 20, 2001

------------------------------
Subject 1: Where's the FAQ?

The Feistfans-L FAQ can be found at:

    http://www.psihawk.com/feist/

If you don't have web access, but you do have email access, you can
get a copy of the FAQ via email by sending a message to

    feist-faq@psihawk.com.

------------------------------
Subject 2: Posting etiquette

The following information gets posted as it becomes available, so don't
pester REF:

- When the next book is coming out
- Miscellaneous Midkemia projects
- When and where REF is going to do book signings
- REF's travel schedule (e.g. COMDEX, E3, etc.)

Also, the following subject matter should generally be avoided, for
various reasons:

- Any combination of REF's books as a movie [see the FAQ]
- Personal Computer/Operating System religious wars [way off-topic]
- The belief that Pug's parents *must* be someone important or powerful
   [see the FAQ]
- Posting stories (fan fiction or otherwise) [can cause copyright
   problems]
- That you don't like the cover of book <x> and REF should choose a
   different cover [Cover art is up to the publisher, not the author]

If you really wish to discuss these "frequently discussed" topics again,
please look at one of the following:

    Feistfans-L Archive
    http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~fellowsd/REF/

    FEISTFANS-L Digest Archive
    http://www.ferkel.co.uk/rip/digests.html

and read through past discussions before rehashing material already
discussed.

------------------------------
Subject 3: Can REF come to our town for a book signing?

Not necessarily.  Your best (and only) bet is to convince your local
bookstore to convince REF's current publisher (Avon in the North America,
Harper-Collins in Europe/Australia) to send him to your city for a book
signing.  REF has no control over where he gets sent.

------------------------------
Subject 4: Upcoming books

In the US, _Krondor: Tear of the Gods_ is out in hardback form.

Future books include the following (in approximate working order):

    - Tales of the Riftwar Series
      + Honored Enemy, "a 'march or die' type combat novel", with
        William R. Forstchen (Done, but not published)
    - The Conclave of Shadows (set 30-50 years after the end of The
Serpentwar
      Saga)
      + Talon of the Silver Hawk (Book 1)
    - Atlas of Macros the Black--Macro's personal atlas of Midkemia
(formerly
      the Atlas of Midkemia)
    - Tales of the Riftwar Series
      + "A murder mystery set in LaMut" with Joel Rosenberg
      + "A Jimmy the Hand novel" with S. M. Sterling

The following have been mentioned, but have been put off:

    - Another dark fantasy novel (in the same vein as Faerie Tale)
    - A Sci-Fi Adventure Novel, tentatively titled _The Jigsaw Lady_

Finally, about any Kelewan books:

    *******************************************************************
    ** There are no plans for any more Empire books, with or without **
    ** Janny Wurts.                                                  **
    *******************************************************************

See the Feistfans-L FAQ for more details.

------------------------------
Subject 5: MUSH/MUD/MOO?

RiftMUSH appears to no longer be operating.

------------------------------
Subject 6: IRC?

You can connect to the #Midkemia channel on DalNet.  For more information,
look at the #Midkemia's IRC FAQ at:

    http://www.psihawk.com/feist/Feist-IRC.html

If you still have problems connecting, send email to Joe Dimech, founder of
the #Midkemia channel at Macros@ntplx.net.

------------------------------
Subject 7: Computer games?

Already published is "Betrayal at Krondor" by Sierra/Dynamix for
DOS/Windows, and "Return to Krondor" by Pyrotechnix and distributed by
Sierra.

Currently, there are no companies working on another Midkemia based
computer game.

------------------------------
Subject 8: How do I unsubscribe? (Or "Help! Its too much mail!")

To unsubscribe from Feistfans-L, send the command

          UNSUBSCRIBE FEISTFANS-L

To the address listproc@cornell.edu.

------------------------------
Subject 9: How do I resubscribe? (Or "I haven't seen any email for a while")

Every once in a while, you might get dropped from the mailing list.  The
best thing to do is to unsubscribe yourself and resubscribe.  This can be
done by sending the following commands:

UNSUBSCRIBE FEISTFANS-L
SUBSCRIBE FEISTFANS-L

To the address listproc@cornell.edu.

    ******************************************************************
    * IMPORTANT NOTE: If someone sends a "am I unsubscribed from the *
    *    list?" email, then it is entirely possible that they are    *
    *    not on the list.  So, responding to the FEISTFANS-L mailing *
    *    list saying "no" won't do any good for the unsubscribed     *
    *    person because they are no longer on the list.              *
    ******************************************************************

------------------------------
Subject 10: Was the world of Midkemia originated as a roleplaying game?

Yes.  Presently, the only way to get the original products is to look
at store that sell used gaming material or from Midkemia Press's web
site at:

     http://www.midkemia.com/Products.html

------------------------------
Subject 11: What does WUTNB stand for?

Wait Until the Next Book

------------------------------
Subject 12: What other WWW sites are there?

Raymond E Feist Ring
    http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm

List of Feist Resources
    http://www.unc.edu/~smrussel/Feist_Resources.html

Donal's Feistfans-L Archive
    http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~fellowsd/REF/

Raymond E. Feist Cover Art Montage
    http://www.math.unc.edu/Grads/kneisl/feist/

Midkemia Press
    http://www.midkemia.com/

============================================================================
=



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References: <20010807184950.23374.qmail@web12703.mail.yahoo.com>
 <005901c11fa0$b4aab7c0$2f1e3acb@heechee>
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From: "Jason Mulligan" <sulimo@bigpond.net.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re:
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 15:16:05 +1000
From: "Jason Mulligan" <sulimo@bigpond.net.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re:
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

On 7/08/2001 at 23:57 PM kuros@pgtv.net wrote:

>Now you've met two. =P
>
><points to his Tolkien Disliker's Official Pin>
>

One thing I am curious about is that of those who have read Lord of the Rings 
and didnt like it or hated it, do you plan on seeing or not seeing Fellowship of the Ring 
(the film)? I couldnt imagine why you would go see a film of a story that you disliked/hated.


d



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From: Allan Mills <milla@css.com.au>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" (FEISTFANS-L) <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Gray Assassin
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 15:18:18 +1000 
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*** EOOH ***
From: Allan Mills <milla@css.com.au>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" (FEISTFANS-L) <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Gray Assassin
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 15:18:18 +1000 
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

 Just send an e-mail to listproc@cornell.edu with the message body being the
world help.

 Allan

> -----Original Message-----
> From: John [mailto:john@crydee.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2001 2:39 PM
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Subject: Re: Gray Assassin
> 
> 
> Jeff Schreier <schreierj@yahoo.com> writes
> >Yup - found the list :)  I am guessing there is no way
> >to get digest, eh?
> 
> There is a way but I can't remember how IIRC you can send a 
> HELP message 
> to the listproc.
> You may also have the info in the joining message if you got one
> >
> >Has anyone on the list used the midkemia rpg
> >supplements?  Is there a magic system detailed within?
> > From what I understand, it was based on the old D&D
> >(which had nothing like greater and lesser paths and
> >doesn't seem to involve memorizing spells)  I don't
> >think I'd ever play but am considering picking them up
> >when possible...
> 
> Ray hopefully has,
> -- 
> John
> 
> john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
> http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.
> 
> Raymond E Feist Ring
> http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm
> 
> 



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To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
References: <20010807184950.23374.qmail@web12703.mail.yahoo.com><005901c11fa0$b4aab7c0$2f1e3acb@heechee><002601c11fd7$632e4150$0100a8c0@dragon> <200108081516050616.015B7E44@mail-hub>
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*** EOOH ***
From: kuros@pgtv.net (kuros)
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re:
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 00:44:03 -0700
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I can only speak for myself, but my reasoning is thus...
Its a fantasy film. There's so few of them, I always go to see them. Plus,
its got John Rhys-Davies in it. He's one of my favorite actors. Also, I'm
hoping its not going to be taken directly from the book. As I've mentioned
before, I've only read the Hobbit. I never read the trilogy, so I don't know
if I'd like it or not. Sorry if I'm not making much sense, its late. =P

Kuros
"If life hands you a lemon, make lemonade. If life hands you a hemlock,
don't make hemlock-ade." -Unknown
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jason Mulligan" <sulimo@bigpond.net.au>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2001 10:16 PM
Subject: Re:


> On 7/08/2001 at 23:57 PM kuros@pgtv.net wrote:
>
> >Now you've met two. =P
> >
> ><points to his Tolkien Disliker's Official Pin>
> >
>
> One thing I am curious about is that of those who have read Lord of the Rings
> and didnt like it or hated it, do you plan on seeing or not seeing Fellowship of the Ring
> (the film)? I couldnt imagine why you would go see a film of a story that you disliked/hated.
>
>
> d
>
>



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X-PH: V4.1@cornell.edu (Cornell Modified) 
From: "Chad Keffer" <feistfan@chadkeffer.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Fantasy Genre
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 00:49:48 -0500
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Chad Keffer" <feistfan@chadkeffer.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Fantasy Genre
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 00:49:48 -0500
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Ray,

Just had a couple of questions that I hoped you could answer:

1 - Putting aside the number of works of fantasy written, do you feel
that fantasy deserves a more detailed categorization?  There's
highly-acclaimed fantasy like Tolkien, Jordan, and you.  There's
historical fantasy (everything happens on earth within a culture that
did/does exists even though the author has the characters doing
fantastic things such as magic).  There's series fantasy, DragonLance
and Forgotten Realms.  There was even some Choose Your Own Adventure
fantasy, ("Wizards, Warriors, and You" to name one), there's classic
fantasy like Conan...

2 -  If you owned a bookstore that sold only fantasy novels and you
had ever novel ever published in that genre, how would you divide them
up?   Obviously you'd want people to find the section they like so
they could browse the titles of their favorite category.  So, what
categories would there be?  I mean, if I love works like Lord of the
Rings, I don't want to have to pick through DragonLance to find
interesting titles I will probably enjoy.

3 - What category (or categories) do you feel your stories belong in?

Thanks,

Chad

P.S. - I've been on the list for about 3 years (through many email
address changes of my own) however, I don't post a lot, so I'd like to
thank everyone for the wonderful conversation threads on Ray's work
that I've had the opportunity to read over the years.



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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Barker" <heechee@softhome.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: 
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 16:22:42 +1000
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----- Original Message -----
From: Jason Mulligan <sulimo@bigpond.net.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2001 3:16 PM
Subject: Re:


> On 7/08/2001 at 23:57 PM kuros@pgtv.net wrote:
>
> >Now you've met two. =P
> >
> ><points to his Tolkien Disliker's Official Pin>
> >
>
> One thing I am curious about is that of those who have read Lord of the Rings
> and didnt like it or hated it, do you plan on seeing or not seeing Fellowship of the Ring
> (the film)? I couldnt imagine why you would go see a film of a story that you disliked/hated.

I have read the book, I just didn't find it too satisfying. I'm going to go
and see the film because I'm curious how well Peter Jackson translated it.

I liked the storyline behind LotR, but thought that Tolkien went into too
much depth at times. I don't severely dislike Tolkien's work, but I simply
wasn't that impressed with it.

And anyway, isn't this supposed to be the Feistfans list?

Cheers,
James



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*** EOOH ***
From: "A Irving" <aignome@dingoblue.net.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
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From: John <john@crydee.com>
> Jeff Schreier <schreierj@yahoo.com> writes
> >Yup - found the list :)  I am guessing there is no way
> >to get digest, eh?
> There is a way but I can't remember how IIRC you can send a HELP message
> to the listproc.
> You may also have the info in the joining message if you got one
Sorry for that guess I made, it was completely wrong, it should be 'SET
FEISTFANS-L MAIL DIGEST'  if you have not found it already
CIAO,
          Aaron

http://www.hallofworlds.net/kerr/main.php
http://www.nightshadow.co.uk



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From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: 
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 01:33:37 -0500
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> And anyway, isn't this supposed to be the Feistfans list?

Yeah, it is.  But this line of thought is a common plague to that
notion.  I suppose it could be worse though.  Someone could start
another OS flamewar.

-James



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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re:
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 01:32:18 -0500
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If you've not read the trilogy, I suggest doing so, so that you can
earn the coveted " Tolkien Disliker Official Broach".

Look folks,
    Let me put it this way.  Quality authors strike to be as
individual as anyone in any profession.  Therefore, each great
fantasy author is a little different.  Some are very long winded
(like Jordan).  Others write in a more poetic (re: archaic) style
(i.e. Tolkien).  More often we find those that write purely action
with little development of characters (dragonlance, forgotten
realms).  Some write with a great deal of emphasis on intrigue and
dialogue (Rawn).  Some like Ray have found a good mix of all sides.
    Some books are written specifically for more mature readers.
Some seem to be more "teenaged", much like the dragonlance.  Others
like the Hobbit and A Wizard of Earthsea, are certainly children's
books, albeit ones that still have devoted adult readers.
    Fact is that each author brings something different to a story,
and with each of us having relatively individual tastes, some things
attract us more than others.  Hence the reason some people can love
Tolkien and Feist while hate Jordan and Goodkind.  While others hate
Tolkien but love Goodkind and Feist, while merely disliking Jordan.
This is all a matter of perspective.
    Personally I would advocate that a person read two or three of
any authors books before making a judgement about liking or not
liking an author.  Good authors often have numerous books, some
better than others.  In many cases I have found I hated one book by
an author only to love another (it is like this for me with Janny's
or LeGuin's books).  Other authors and I never click.  Yet some like
Ray and Asprin have me hooked like a 250lb tuna.

-James



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From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" (FEISTFANS-L) <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: 
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Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 16:59:16 +1000 (GMT+1000)
From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" (FEISTFANS-L) <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: 
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> > I have always asked my friends "Why?" when they keep telling me I
> > should read Lord of the Rings.  None of them have been able to give
> > me a satisfactory answer beyond "You must" or "Just because" or any
> > other number of similar reasons.
>  The reason why is simple. A large chunk of fantasy authors today were
> either inspired by reading Tolkien, inspired by reading somone else inspired
> by Tolkien or flat out owe the popularity of fantasy to Tolkien. He didn't
> invent the genre but he popularised it.
>  David Eddings mentions Tolkien in his book the Rivan Codex which was a
> collection of ideas for his Belgariad and Mallorean novels. He had rejected
> fantasy and was trying to write "normal" fiction when he noticed Lord of the
> Rings in a book store. He thought to himself "Is that old thing still
> selling ?" and took a closer look. It was in something like its 36th
> reprinting. He decided to go back and take another look at a fantasy story
> he'd been thinking about.
>  Even Rays works are derived from a varient of D&D which is derived from
> Tolkiens works. The reason to read Tolkiens books ? So that you can see
> where it all started.
>  Allan

I've been trying to read Tolkien LotR for the past 2 years, however, I ind
it extremely boring.....I'm half way through the Two Towers...and I don't
know if I'll ever finish it.


However, I have read (and own) the Hobbit, which I enjoyed immensenly. Am
I just weird?

Thanks
Darragh
-=-=
www.iamtheporkfireman.com
[Email]: s356179@student.uq.edu.au [ICQ]: 114283262



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From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Gray Assassin
In-Reply-To: <20010807161030.89963.qmail@web14208.mail.yahoo.com>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 17:05:02 +1000 (GMT+1000)
From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Gray Assassin
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

> I just recently joined the list and just recently
> obtained a copy of profit and the gray assassin.  I
> was lucky enough to read the short story after having
> read all of Feist's current novels (except for
> honoured enemy - on the way from amazon.co.uk) and
> noticed some interesting things - particularly with
> the serpentwar saga ....
> First, I found it pretty neat that earth is attached
> to the Hall of Worlds - the merchant in the short
> story had bought a wristwatch which told the time in
> Tokyo, and Profit had traveled through Cincinatti ...
> is there any other incidents of contact between the
> universe in which Midkemia is based and earth?
>
> Also, Stardock is mentioned -- obviously this is after
> the first riftwar -- second, Pug apparently hired the
> "Gray Assassin" as one of three to prevent anyone from
> following him and does specifically mention that the
> gray assassin has the death touch ...
>
> ** SPOILER about the short story
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> As the Gray Assassin dies in the short story - this
> would imply that the short story comes after the
> incidents in the serpentwar saga ...
> Thanks,
> Jeff

Hehe, I asked this same question a while back, and apparently, Time in the
hall is not relative to Midkemia...or some such.....which still makes me a
bit confused:P

Thanks
Darragh
-=-=
www.iamtheporkfireman.com
[Email]: s356179@student.uq.edu.au [ICQ]: 114283262



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Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 17:10:01 +1000 (GMT+1000)
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From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Fantasy Genre
In-Reply-To: <000901c11fcd$efb974f0$52c9b718@agundar.net>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 17:10:01 +1000 (GMT+1000)
From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Fantasy Genre
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

> Just had a couple of questions that I hoped you could answer:
> 1 - Putting aside the number of works of fantasy written, do you feel
> that fantasy deserves a more detailed categorization?  There's
> highly-acclaimed fantasy like Tolkien, Jordan, and you.  There's
> historical fantasy (everything happens on earth within a culture that
> did/does exists even though the author has the characters doing
> fantastic things such as magic).  There's series fantasy, DragonLance
> and Forgotten Realms.  There was even some Choose Your Own Adventure
> fantasy, ("Wizards, Warriors, and You" to name one), there's classic
> fantasy like Conan...

...Just an aside...

To Ray, and everyone else....

I've been reading a non-fiction book published pretty recently, written by
a publisher....and they claim that the market for Historical fiction is
pretty dead atm....


..does anyone think this is correct?

Thanks
Darragh
-=-=
www.iamtheporkfireman.com
[Email]: s356179@student.uq.edu.au [ICQ]: 114283262



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Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 17:25:10 +1000
From: "Jason Mulligan" <sulimo@bigpond.net.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Fantasy Genre
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On 8/08/2001 at 17:10 PM Darragh Murray wrote:

>> Just had a couple of questions that I hoped you could answer:
>> 1 - Putting aside the number of works of fantasy written, do you feel
>> that fantasy deserves a more detailed categorization?  There's
>> highly-acclaimed fantasy like Tolkien, Jordan, and you.  There's
>> historical fantasy (everything happens on earth within a culture that
>> did/does exists even though the author has the characters doing
>> fantastic things such as magic).  There's series fantasy, DragonLance
>> and Forgotten Realms.  There was even some Choose Your Own Adventure
>> fantasy, ("Wizards, Warriors, and You" to name one), there's classic
>> fantasy like Conan...
>
>...Just an aside...
>
>To Ray, and everyone else....
>
>I've been reading a non-fiction book published pretty recently, written by
>a publisher....and they claim that the market for Historical fiction is
>pretty dead atm....
>
>
>..does anyone think this is correct?

I dont really think so. There seems to be heaps of mystery novels set in either 
Medieval Europe or Ancient Rome for instance. And theres' stuff like Colleen McCullough's 
recent series of Rome novels.








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References: <20010807184950.23374.qmail@web12703.mail.yahoo.com>
 <005901c11fa0$b4aab7c0$2f1e3acb@heechee>
 <002601c11fd7$632e4150$0100a8c0@dragon>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 17:34:31 +1000
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Anestis Kozakis <kenosti@labyrinth.net.au>
Subject: Re:
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>On 7/08/2001 at 23:57 PM kuros@pgtv.net wrote:
>
>  >Now you've met two. =P
>  ><points to his Tolkien Disliker's Official Pin>


>One thing I am curious about is that of those who have read Lord of the Rings
>and didnt like it or hated it, do you plan on seeing or not seeing 
>Fellowship of the Ring
>(the film)? I couldnt imagine why you would go see a film of a story 
>that you disliked/hated.

Yes, I plan on seeing the movies.  Maybe they will finally get me to 
read the books.  Maybe not.  But, it's a fantasy movie, and they tend 
to be few and far between.

>d

Anestis.
-- 
kenosti@labyrinth.net.au
"A complete list of this film's associate producers
  is available upon request."
    -- In End Credits for "State and Main"



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 <005901c11fa0$b4aab7c0$2f1e3acb@heechee>
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*** EOOH ***
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At 11:57 PM 8/7/01 -0700, kuros wrote:
>Now you've met two. =P

And I'd be three.

As an aside to Mr. Shreier, who asked about the digest mode:

There are several different flavors. Or flavours if you prefer.

set feistfans-l mail                Set default mail settings
set feistfans-l mail digest         digest mode (normal)
set feistfans-l mail digest-mime    equiv of digest
set feistfans-l mail digest-nomime  What you probably want.

rip



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From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: hullo, question here
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 <000901c11fa8$1be8e860$2f1e3acb@heechee>
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Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 08:40:51 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: hullo, question here
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

At 11:13 PM 8/7/01 -0500, Craig J. Ries wrote:
>James Barker wrote:
>> That's because there isn't one. According to Ray, problems with the
>
>Last thing I need is different copies of books from different countries
>:)

John, Max?  Can anyone else /not/ identify with that attitude?  
Probably Jeff Schreier as the few posts I've seen from/to him
make it sound like he's also a collector...
;->  

rip



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To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
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Subject: OT: LOTR
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Julie Wootten" <wootten@xtra.co.nz>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: OT: LOTR
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 20:32:30 +1200
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From: Jason Mulligan <sulimo@bigpond.net.au>
> One thing I am curious about is that of those who have read Lord of the Rings
> and didnt like it or hated it, do you plan on seeing or not seeing Fellowship of the Ring
> (the film)? I couldnt imagine why you would go see a film of a story that you disliked/hated.
>
> d

First of all, accept that most books are going to be altered some
in the translation from book to film.  Now, I've never had anything
against the STORY of LOTR - I just found the delivery not to my
taste.  So... altered delivery via film means that there's a good likelihood
that I'm going to really enjoy it.

Secondly, Peter Jackson is directing it.  Can't go wrong with a
kiwi at the helm!

Thirdly!  Filmed in NZ - can't go wrong with that scenery.  When
I worked overseas, I used to watch Hercules or Xena, and get a
little teary-eyed with homesickness.

Julie.



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Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 05:37:46 -0700 (PDT)
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From: Jeff Schreier <schreierj@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: hullo, question here
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 05:37:46 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jeff Schreier <schreierj@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: hullo, question here
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I actually don't mind the multiple versions --
granted, to have an exhaustive library is more
challenging, but it also provides variety and makes it
easier on some people ... certain versions might be
easier to obtain as they are less "desirable" - and
thus anyone can get them ....

Jeff
--- Richard Williamson
<richard.williamson@windriver.com> wrote:
> At 11:13 PM 8/7/01 -0500, Craig J. Ries wrote:
> >James Barker wrote:
> >> That's because there isn't one. According to Ray,
> problems with the
> >
> >Last thing I need is different copies of books from
> different countries
> >:)
> 
> John, Max?  Can anyone else /not/ identify with that
> attitude?  
> Probably Jeff Schreier as the few posts I've seen
> from/to him
> make it sound like he's also a collector...
> ;->  
> 
> rip
> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
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From: "Michael Gibson" <gibfish@gibbyco.freeserve.co.uk>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Finished HE
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 14:30:23 +0100
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Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: "Michael Gibson" <gibfish@gibbyco.freeserve.co.uk>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Finished HE
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 14:30:23 +0100
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Hi Ray

Slight HE Spoiler:
-
-
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--
-
-
--
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--
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I've just finished Honoured Enemy, and firstly I'd like to say, damn well done.
Without doubt it is the best book I've read in the last year - probably more -
and that's against strong opposition.

The story line was intense and compelling, and it was great to have another
viewpoint onto the Riftwar and moredhel culture.

The conflict and friendship between Dennis and Asayaga was highly believable,
and the mirroring of this against the sadder feud between Tinuva and Bovai was
very poignant, contrasting bonds of loyalty, family and honour.  Indeed, it was
very easy to sympathise with all of the parties involved, especially Dennis.

Do we come across Corwin again in the future?

Mike,
Gibfish of the West.
                                          Check out my forums at:
"If a problem appears simple, then it     http://www.tonrae.co.uk/forums/
probably hasn't been thought through."



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Subject: Re: LOTR
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 08:52:42 -0500
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From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: LOTR
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 08:52:42 -0500
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> From: Jason Mulligan <sulimo@bigpond.net.au>
> > One thing I am curious about is that of those who have read Lord of the
> Rings
> > and didnt like it or hated it, do you plan on seeing or not seeing
> Fellowship of the Ring
> > (the film)? I couldnt imagine why you would go see a film of a story that
> you disliked/hated.
> >
> > d
>
> First of all, accept that most books are going to be altered some
> in the translation from book to film.  Now, I've never had anything
> against the STORY of LOTR - I just found the delivery not to my
> taste.  So... altered delivery via film means that there's a good likelihood
> that I'm going to really enjoy it.

Just to reiterate, I really dislike books being made into movies,
and in general find most movies to be really lousy.  All special
effects and mug shots...very little good acting and quality writing.

> Secondly, Peter Jackson is directing it.  Can't go wrong with a
> kiwi at the helm!

Since when did being a Kiwi make one exempt from the lousy director
column?  Kinda like saying a Canadian can't be a bad hockey player
isn't it?  I don't think I have seen anything by Jackson that has
particularly appealed to me.

> Thirdly!  Filmed in NZ - can't go wrong with that scenery.  When
> I worked overseas, I used to watch Hercules or Xena, and get a
> little teary-eyed with homesickness.

Sure you could, like they could try and use the senrey that is
described in the books.  Which NZ is missing a lot of the flora for,
and certainly is missing the fauna (well except sheep, but that is
another tasteless joke).

-James
"who plans to find EVERY dialogue, scene, and character flaw he can
in LotR."



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To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
References: <20010807184950.23374.qmail@web12703.mail.yahoo.com> <005901c11fa0$b4aab7c0$2f1e3acb@heechee> <002601c11fd7$632e4150$0100a8c0@dragon> <200108081516050616.015B7E44@mail-hub> <p04310100b7969ba7719f@[192.168.0.2]>
Subject: Exactly what is a "fantasy movie"?
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 09:10:38 -0500
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From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Exactly what is a "fantasy movie"?
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 09:10:38 -0500
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

    Exactly what movies are we defining as "Fantasy"?  Are we only
saying those that are "medieval / magical" in nature?  Perhaps we'll
include Greek and Roman mythology.  Aren't most space adventures
usually fantasy?  Or do we really have to separate them into another
category even when they obviously are "fantastic" universe models?
Do we count things like Mini-Series movies (Merlin, Mists of Avalon,
etc.)?  Or perhaps only big budget flicks?

    I'm not quite so sure fantasy movies are as rare as people seem
to like to think...Robin Hood Men in Tights (I think it is better
than what it spoofed), Red Sonja, The Princess Bride, Monty Python
and the Holy Grail, First Knight, Lady Hawk, Dragonheart, Dungeons
and Dragons, Merlin, Mists of Avalon, and many more are all examples
of what I would call typical fantasy.  I would probably go even
father and start adding the Animated LotR to start a VERY long list
of animated fantasy movies.  Most of these are mainstream movies
that people have heard of, it doesn't even start to touch the true
"B" movie column and the numerous low budget flicks.  And if
anything, recently there have been what seems like quite a few
fantasy projects in the works, including LotR, D&D, and Harry
Potter.  This is still without even including "comic book fantasy"
which would cover everything from Superman and Batman, to year's
X-men, to the supposed upcoming Spiderman.

-James

> Maybe not.  But, it's a fantasy movie, and they tend to be few and far
> between.



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 09:22:58 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Fantasy Genre
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On Tuesday, August 7, 2001, at 10:49 PM, Chad Keffer wrote:

> Ray,
>
> Just had a couple of questions that I hoped you could answer:
>
> 1 - Putting aside the number of works of fantasy written, do you feel
> that fantasy deserves a more detailed categorization?  There's
> highly-acclaimed fantasy like Tolkien, Jordan, and you.  There's
> historical fantasy (everything happens on earth within a culture that
> did/does exists even though the author has the characters doing
> fantastic things such as magic).  There's series fantasy, DragonLance
> and Forgotten Realms.  There was even some Choose Your Own Adventure
> fantasy, ("Wizards, Warriors, and You" to name one), there's classic
> fantasy like Conan...

I don't know about "deserves."  Categories are for sales, i.e. it used 
to be Science Fiction/Fantasy/Horror until Steve King came along and 
then the book sellers broke Horror out into it's own category.  Genre is 
about labeling things, and there are sub-genres of fantasy, such as 
"Sword and Sorcery," "Heroic Fantasy," "High Adventure Fantasy," "Dark 
Fantasy," etc.
>
> 2 -  If you owned a bookstore that sold only fantasy novels and you
> had ever novel ever published in that genre, how would you divide them
> up?   Obviously you'd want people to find the section they like so
> they could browse the titles of their favorite category.  So, what
> categories would there be?  I mean, if I love works like Lord of the
> Rings, I don't want to have to pick through DragonLance to find
> interesting titles I will probably enjoy.

I would list them alphabetically by author.

>
> 3 - What category (or categories) do you feel your stories belong in?


I write "Adventure Fantasy," IMHO, but I do have more global issues that 
have it slipping a little bit into epic.


Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.

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Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 09:25:36 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
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On Wednesday, August 8, 2001, at 12:10 AM, Darragh Murray wrote:

>>

> ...Just an aside...
>
> To Ray, and everyone else....
>
> I've been reading a non-fiction book published pretty recently, written 
> by
> a publisher....and they claim that the market for Historical fiction is
> pretty dead atm....
>
>
> ..does anyone think this is correct?
>


Depends.   If it was the newest Patrick O'Brian novel (prior to his 
recent demise, obviously), or the newest Shaprs book from Richard 
Cornwell, they did well enough.

The problem is no one is writing mainstream huge historicals since 
Mitchner, save Gore Vidal.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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On Wednesday, August 8, 2001, at 06:30 AM, Michael Gibson wrote:

> Hi Ray
>
> Slight HE Spoiler:
> -
> -
> -
> --
> -
> -
> --
> -
> -
> --
> -
> -
> --
> -
> -
> --
> -
> -
> --
> -
> -
> --
> -
> -
> -
>
> I've just finished Honoured Enemy, and firstly I'd like to say, damn 
> well done.
> Without doubt it is the best book I've read in the last year - probably 
> more -
> and that's against strong opposition.
>
> The story line was intense and compelling, and it was great to have 
> another
> viewpoint onto the Riftwar and moredhel culture.
>
> The conflict and friendship between Dennis and Asayaga was highly 
> believable,
> and the mirroring of this against the sadder feud between Tinuva and 
> Bovai was
> very poignant, contrasting bonds of loyalty, family and honour.  
> Indeed, it was
> very easy to sympathise with all of the parties involved, especially 
> Dennis.
>
> Do we come across Corwin again in the future?
>
> Mike,
> Gibfish of the West.
>                                           Check out my forums at:
> "If a problem appears simple, then it     
> http://www.tonrae.co.uk/forums/
> probably hasn't been thought through."
>
>


Don't know about Corwin.  Bill and I talked about it, and at one point 
in the draft there was a mention he got toasted in another fight, but I 
think that reference got cut.

I'll check the final text and if he's still around, I might use him 
again.

Glad you enjoyed the book.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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References: <3B708F07.5B689D49@yifan.net>
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Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com> writes
>At 11:13 PM 8/7/01 -0500, Craig J. Ries wrote:
>>James Barker wrote:
>>> That's because there isn't one. According to Ray, problems with the
>>
>>Last thing I need is different copies of books from different countries
>>:)
>
>John, Max?  Can anyone else /not/ identify with that attitude?
>Probably Jeff Schreier as the few posts I've seen from/to him
>make it sound like he's also a collector...
>;->
>
>rip

The way I see it I have my UK collection, my US collection, my German 
collection my Japanese Collection, etc. Why would I spoil my US 
Collection with a Japanese book <G>

-- 
John

john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.

Raymond E Feist Ring
http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm



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I'm a bit tentative about this, so before I even go ahead I should probably 
ask if its ok- is Ray open to suggestions on upcoming books here?

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp



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From: John <john@crydee.com>
Subject: Re: Finished HE
References: <NGELLDNAEMBGGGHFAJPBAEIPCHAA.gibfish@gibbyco.freeserve.co.uk>
 <200108081627.f78GRmF04427@smtp2.san.rr.com>
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*** EOOH ***
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Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com> writes
>Don't know about Corwin.  Bill and I talked about it, and at one point 
>in the draft there was a mention he got toasted in another fight, but I 
>think that reference got cut.
>
>I'll check the final text and if he's still around, I might use him 
>again.
>
>Glad you enjoyed the book.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
Ray do you know if Bill has an official website ( I haven't found one 
yet), it would be nice to add a link to it from my site

-- 
John

john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.

Raymond E Feist Ring
http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm



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Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 15:25:32 -0500
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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Exactly what is a "fantasy movie"?
References: <20010807184950.23374.qmail@web12703.mail.yahoo.com> <005901c11fa0$b4aab7c0$2f1e3acb@heechee> <002601c11fd7$632e4150$0100a8c0@dragon> <200108081516050616.015B7E44@mail-hub> <p04310100b7969ba7719f@[192.168.0.2]> <002a01c12013$ed2cfae0$7a42fc9e@oemcomputer>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 15:25:32 -0500
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Exactly what is a "fantasy movie"?
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James Young wrote:
> 
>     Exactly what movies are we defining as "Fantasy"?

*shudders* Most movies have been so bad that we wouldn't want to claim
them as being part of the genre :)

I'm not sure what all the terms are any more, but the terms for books
don't seem to apply as well to movies.
I mean, I've always considered Star Wars a fantasy movie, not science
fiction (even though it contains some sci-fi elements).

Craig J. Ries



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 15:27:39 -0500
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
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James Young wrote:
> 
> More often we find those that write purely action
> with little development of characters (dragonlance, forgotten
> realms).

As one who has been a long time fan of Dragonlance, I think you should
separate the "pulp" (as some of us call it) of worlds like DL and some
of the best that those worlds have to offer. For Dragonlance, this would
be the first two trilogies: Chronicles and Legends.

To just call DL "purely action" is, imo, mistaken.

Craig J. Ries



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From: "David Christensen" <damc84@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Who made the Mad God mad?
Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 18:35:00 
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Of course it would be silly to ask :) but why not give a guess? Personally 
i'm very eagerly awaiting the upcoming books for the answer to that 
question. Anyways heres a few guesses that are way out there :)

-Nakor??? Somehow I have the feeling he isn't what he appears to be. Maybe 
he's really an agent for some sinister entity?

-The Aal. The first race ever created... and the Oracle has a way of making 
the minds of the bodies she occupies insane. Perhaps they have some secret 
ambition and hold the gods in contempt?

Can't think of anything else. Maybe the Eldar in some strange fashion, I 
dunno.

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp



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Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 15:23:51 -0500
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
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Darragh Murray wrote:
> 
> I've been trying to read Tolkien LotR for the past 2 years, however, I ind
> it extremely boring.....I'm half way through the Two Towers...and I don't
> know if I'll ever finish it.
> However, I have read (and own) the Hobbit, which I enjoyed immensenly. Am
> I just weird?

I don't think so. The Hobbit & Lord of the Rings, to me, are a bit
different in terms of writing style. I read The Hobbit some time after
LotR and whilst I enjoyed it, it just wasn't the same story or anything.
Didn't capture me the same way that LotR did.

Craig J. Ries



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 15:35:28 -0500
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: hullo, question here
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Terry Corbett wrote:
> 
> Would there be much difference between a UK version
> and a US version?

The only difference I've seen (not having owned a UK version as of yet)
is that they seem to get a helluva lot better cover art across the Big
Pond :)

Craig J. Ries



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From: Terry Corbett <terrylc_69@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: hullo, question here
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Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 11:32:53 -0700 (PDT)
From: Terry Corbett <terrylc_69@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: hullo, question here
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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Would there be much difference between a UK version
and a US version?

Terry

--- Jeff Schreier <schreierj@yahoo.com> wrote:
> I actually don't mind the multiple versions --
> granted, to have an exhaustive library is more
> challenging, but it also provides variety and makes
> it
> easier on some people ... certain versions might be
> easier to obtain as they are less "desirable" - and
> thus anyone can get them ....
> 
> Jeff

__________________________________________________
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From: John <john@crydee.com>
Subject: Re: Suggestions
References: <F852DreBBsQwY6YHkid000025a1@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re: Suggestions
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David Christensen <damc84@hotmail.com> writes
>I'm a bit tentative about this, so before I even go ahead I should 
>probably ask if its ok- is Ray open to suggestions on upcoming books 
>here?

Nope, The way Ray talks about what he would like to write, I would say 
he has ideas for the next decade at least.

Ray has said in the past  something to the effect Ideas come cheap Its 
filling in the rest of it that takes time.
For example . A book on the Valheru, OK so what would the content be to 
make a whole book interesting
-- 
John

john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.

Raymond E Feist Ring
http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm



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From: John <john@crydee.com>
Subject: Re: hullo, question here
References: <20010808183253.6117.qmail@web12707.mail.yahoo.com>
 <3B71A290.C7764BB4@yifan.net>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 21:41:44 +0100
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From: John <john@crydee.com>
Subject: Re: hullo, question here
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Craig J. Ries <cries@yifan.net> writes
>Terry Corbett wrote:
>>
>> Would there be much difference between a UK version
>> and a US version?
>
>The only difference I've seen (not having owned a UK version as of yet)
>is that they seem to get a helluva lot better cover art across the Big
>Pond :)
And in the case of Honoured Enemy. The title is in English <G>

-- 
John

john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.

Raymond E Feist Ring
http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm



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Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 17:01:12 EDT
Subject: HE just arrived!
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From: KSimon67@aol.com
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 17:01:12 EDT
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Well, 
 
I had to order it from Amazon UK,  but it's finally arrived.    

I don't even know how much this cost me, pounds, euros whatever.  I really 
don't care, I just feel fortunate that I don't have to wait months or years 
even, to buy the book here in the US.

The book looks like it printed on recycled stock, I could not find anything 
on the book that confirms that, though.

I shall start reading it tonight.

Thanks Ray,

Karl

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From: "mike galanti" <animation85@hotmail.com>
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Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 20:55:19 +0000
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If your up to guessing why not Macros.  Maybe some god sent him back in time 
just to really annoy one god and that god turned into the mad god.

Michael the Dragon Keeper




_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp



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Subject: Re: Suggestions
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 16:02:26 -0700
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From: kuros@pgtv.net (kuros)
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Suggestions
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 16:02:26 -0700
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Well, I'd love to read more about the conquests of the Valheru. The planets
they conqured, etc. Maybe novels about their campaigns. Follow the life of a
single Valheru as he lives, and such. Though there is a coolness about their
mysterious, like helictites. No one knows how they form, they're just there,
and they're cool.

Kuros
"I'm sick of saving the world! After 450 episodes, the Negaverse can have it
if they want it that badly!" -Disgruntled Sailor Moon, after foiling
Negaverse plot #450.

P.S. - Helictites are a cave formation that grow in defiance of gravity. No
one knows how they form, though the most popular theory is capillary action.
----- Original Message -----
From: "John" <john@crydee.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2001 1:40 PM
Subject: Re: Suggestions


> David Christensen <damc84@hotmail.com> writes
> >I'm a bit tentative about this, so before I even go ahead I should
> >probably ask if its ok- is Ray open to suggestions on upcoming books
> >here?
>
> Nope, The way Ray talks about what he would like to write, I would say
> he has ideas for the next decade at least.
>
> Ray has said in the past  something to the effect Ideas come cheap Its
> filling in the rest of it that takes time.
> For example . A book on the Valheru, OK so what would the content be to
> make a whole book interesting
> --
> John
>
> john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
> http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.
>
> Raymond E Feist Ring
> http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm
>
>



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Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 17:06:54 EDT
Subject: Re: Suggestions
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*** EOOH ***
From: KSimon67@aol.com
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 17:06:54 EDT
Subject: Re: Suggestions
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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In a message dated 8/8/2001 1:35:13 PM Pacific Daylight Time, 
damc84@hotmail.com writes:


> I'm a bit tentative about this, so before I even go ahead I should probably 
> ask if its ok- is Ray open to suggestions on upcoming books here?
> 
> 

Uh no.   
I don't mean to speak for him, but you are not the first to ask this, and 
usually it pisses REF off.

Remember, among other things, if you suggest a plot and somehow it ends up in 
his next book, what's to keep you from trying to make some legal claim to the 
idea?
I'm not saying you would do that, but there are people who would.

Karl

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From: Gary Ponting <gary.ponting@van.hinz.com>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" (FEISTFANS-L) <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Who made the Mad God mad?
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*** EOOH ***
From: Gary Ponting <gary.ponting@van.hinz.com>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" (FEISTFANS-L) <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Who made the Mad God mad?
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 14:12:35 -0700 
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Pretty sure its the US publisher that couldn't get us Honoured Enemy this
year.

..gary

-----Original Message-----
>From: David Christensen [mailto:damc84@hotmail.com]
>Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2001 11:35 AM
>To: feistfans-l@cornell.edu
>Subject: Who made the Mad God mad?
>
>
>Of course it would be silly to ask :) but why not give a guess? Personally 
>i'm very eagerly awaiting the upcoming books for the answer to that 
>question. Anyways heres a few guesses that are way out there :)
>
>-Nakor??? Somehow I have the feeling he isn't what he appears to be. Maybe 
>he's really an agent for some sinister entity?
>
>-The Aal. The first race ever created... and the Oracle has a way of making 
>the minds of the bodies she occupies insane. Perhaps they have some secret 
>ambition and hold the gods in contempt?
>
>Can't think of anything else. Maybe the Eldar in some strange fashion, I 
>dunno.
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>


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From: John <john@crydee.com>
Subject: Re: HE just arrived!
References: <73.1129b5ee.28a30298@aol.com>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 22:11:14 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: John <john@crydee.com>
Subject: Re: HE just arrived!
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KSimon67@aol.com writes
>Well,
>I had to order it from Amazon UK,  but it's finally arrived.    
SNIP>
>The book looks like it printed on recycled stock, I could not find anything
>on the book that confirms that, though.
>
Many books in the UK these days are not produced using wood pulp, but 
use plant fibre, and a lot of chalk to give a white paper, which IIRC is 
acid free

-- 
John

john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.

Raymond E Feist Ring
http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm



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Subject: RE: The Hobbit
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*** EOOH ***
Subject: RE: The Hobbit
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 16:35:13 -0500
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From: "Lowder, Jason" <jasonl@spfld.kebcpa.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
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I have never read the hobbit or the Lord of the Rings, but I did
thoroughly enjoy the BBC production of the Hobbit.  In the BBC
adaptation, all the singing and dramatics make the story that much
richer.  I highly recommend it to anyone who has a hard time reading the
actual book, because the story of Bilbo Baggins is quite enjoyable.

Jason Lowder

-----Original Message-----
>From: Craig J. Ries [mailto:cries@yifan.net] 
>Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2001 3:24 PM
>To: FEISTFANS-L
>Subject: Re: 
>
>Darragh Murray wrote:
>> 
>> I've been trying to read Tolkien LotR for the past 2 years, however, I ind
>> it extremely boring.....I'm half way through the Two Towers...and I don't
>> know if I'll ever finish it.
>> However, I have read (and own) the Hobbit, which I enjoyed immensenly. Am
>> I just weird?
>
>I don't think so. The Hobbit & Lord of the Rings, to me, are a bit
>different in terms of writing style. I read The Hobbit some time after
>LotR and whilst I enjoyed it, it just wasn't the same story or anything.
>Didn't capture me the same way that LotR did.
>
>Craig J. Ries
>


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From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
To: ajames2@mail.med.upenn.edu, FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: The Three Musketeers
Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 17:39:41 -0400
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From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
To: ajames2@mail.med.upenn.edu, FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: The Three Musketeers
Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 17:39:41 -0400
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Hi Andy:

Reading order is as follows:

1. The Three Musketeers
2. 20 Years After
3. The Vicomte De Bragelonne
4. Louis De La Vallere
5. The Man in the Iron Mask

There is also a book out there called "A Rose for D'artagnon", or something 
like that, but it is not by Alexander Dumas. It is some sort of Vampire 
Story. I have never read it but it is related to the Dumas Story. I don't 
remember who the author is but I will try and find out if you are 
interested.

Adieu

Jimmy


>From: "Andrew James" <ajames2@mail.med.upenn.edu>
>To: <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
>Subject: RE:
>Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 09:21:13 -0400
>
>What is the order of books after "The Three Musketeers"?
>Andy
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of James Silva
>Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2001 9:27 PM
>To: FEISTFANS-L
>Subject: Re:
>
>
>Actually, "Twenty Years After" is the second book in the series of five. 
>The
>two books I mentioned are sometimes combined into a single volume entitled,
>"Ten Years After." This can be confusing as it is ten years after the book
>entitled "Twenty Years After." So, in effect, "Ten Years After" takes place
>30 years after "The Three Musketeers." More often than not, however, you
>will see it in the two volumes that I mentioned, at least in the US.
>
>Adieu
>
>Jimmy
>
>
> >From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
> >Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> >To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
> >Subject: Re:
> >Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 08:53:04 -0700
> >
> >
> >On Tuesday, August 7, 2001, at 05:22 AM, James Silva wrote:
> >
> >>
> >>If you are going to read Dumas' Musketeer series, read "The Vicomte De
> >>Bragelonne" and "Louis De La Vallere" before concluding with "The Man
> >>in the Iron Mask," else you are missing a good chunk of the story.
> >>
> >
> >If memory serves, those two volumes were combined into Twenty Years
> >After.
> >
> >Best, R.E.F.
> >----
> >
> >Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
> >stupidity.
> >
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp



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Subject: Re: HE just arrived!
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From: "Rob Kolech" <rkolech1@hotmail.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: HE just arrived!
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 17:48:27 -0400
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Aug 2001 21:50:49.0263 (UTC) FILETIME=[2FB223F0:01C12054]
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Still waiting for my copy, I think it should be here (Canada) in a day or
two.

> KSimon67@aol.com writes
> >Well,
> >I had to order it from Amazon UK, but it's finally arrived.
> SNIP>
> >The book looks like it printed on recycled stock, I could not find anything
> >on the book that confirms that, though.
> >
> Many books in the UK these days are not produced using wood pulp, but
> use plant fibre, and a lot of chalk to give a white paper, which IIRC is
> acid free
>
> --
> John
>
> john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
> http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.
>
> Raymond E Feist Ring
> http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm
>
>



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Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 08:01:13 +1000 (EST)
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From: David Smith - NT Interoperability Engineer <David.M.Smith@Sun.COM>
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Subject: Re: Suggestions
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 08:01:13 +1000 (EST)
From: David Smith - NT Interoperability Engineer <David.M.Smith@Sun.COM>
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Suggestions
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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» > I'm a bit tentative about this, so before I even go ahead I should probably 
» > ask if its ok- is Ray open to suggestions on upcoming books here?
» > 
» > 
» 
» Uh no.   
» I don't mean to speak for him, but you are not the first to ask this, and 
» usually it pisses REF off.
» 
» Remember, among other things, if you suggest a plot and somehow it ends up in 
» his next book, what's to keep you from trying to make some legal claim to the 
» idea?
» I'm not saying you would do that, but there are people who would.
» 
» Karl

Just to expand on the above...

If you were to suggest a plot which just so happened to be almost identical to 
the plot of a book Ray was already half way through writing, it's entirely 
possible that Ray may have to throw away all the work he has done on that book 
so as to be sure of avoiding any possible legal repercussions. Would you want 
that to happen? No? I didn't think so... neither do the rest of us.

-- David Smith



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From: "Maria Parsonage" <mpday@strayduck.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
References: <73.1129b5ee.28a30298@aol.com> <aXgcslRyrac7Ew33@cableinet.co.uk>
Subject: Re: HE just arrived!
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 23:02:40 +0100
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From: "Maria Parsonage" <mpday@strayduck.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: HE just arrived!
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 23:02:40 +0100
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Sorry if I seem ignorant but could you please tell me what IIRC stands
for. I've been wondering for weeks!

Maria

----- Original Message -----
From: "John" <john@crydee.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2001 10:11 PM
Subject: Re: HE just arrived!


> KSimon67@aol.com writes
> >Well,
> >I had to order it from Amazon UK, but it's finally arrived.
> SNIP>
> >The book looks like it printed on recycled stock, I could not find anything
> >on the book that confirms that, though.
> >
> Many books in the UK these days are not produced using wood pulp, but
> use plant fibre, and a lot of chalk to give a white paper, which IIRC is
> acid free
>
> --
> John
>
> john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
> http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.
>
> Raymond E Feist Ring
> http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm
>
>



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 15:07:14 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Finished HE
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On Wednesday, August 8, 2001, at 11:25 AM, John wrote:

> Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com> writes
>> Don't know about Corwin.  Bill and I talked about it, and at one point 
>> in the draft there was a mention he got toasted in another fight, but 
>> I think that reference got cut.
>>
>> I'll check the final text and if he's still around, I might use him 
>> again.
>>
>> Glad you enjoyed the book.
>>
>> Best, R.E.F.
> Ray do you know if Bill has an official website ( I haven't found one 
> yet), it would be nice to add a link to it from my site
>

I'm pretty sure he doesn't. He's in Mongolia for a few weeks, but when 
he gets back I'll ask him.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 15:13:33 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Suggestions
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On Wednesday, August 8, 2001, at 06:24 PM, David Christensen wrote:

> I'm a bit tentative about this, so before I even go ahead I should 
> probably ask if its ok- is Ray open to suggestions on upcoming books 
> here?

No.

I'm not open to suggestions because I have all the ideas I need.  Ideas 
are cheap.  Writing books is the hard part.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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From: "greg batman" <pollux@swirve.com>
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Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 17:23:33 -0500
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*** EOOH ***
From: "greg batman" <pollux@swirve.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 17:23:33 -0500
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> I'm not open to suggestions because I have all the ideas I need.  Ideas 
> are cheap.  Writing books is the hard part.
> 
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
> 
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
> stupidity.

well, i just got my copy today (after ordering it from the UK and had
it shipped to texas...)
good stuff so far!  

thanks, Ray.

-- 

_______________________________________________
Get Free Email at Swirve.com, http://www.swirve.com



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From: Andrea J Chee <andrea@bloodaxe.com>
Subject: Re: Suggestions
References: <200108082200.IAA00961@war.Aus.Sun.COM>
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Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 23:31:05 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Andrea J Chee <andrea@bloodaxe.com>
Subject: Re: Suggestions
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In article <200108082200.IAA00961@war.Aus.Sun.COM>, David Smith - NT
Interoperability Engineer <David.M.Smith@Sun.COM> writes
>
>If you were to suggest a plot which just so happened to be almost identical to
>the plot of a book Ray was already half way through writing, it's entirely
>possible that Ray may have to throw away all the work he has done on that book
>so as to be sure of avoiding any possible legal repercussions. Would you want
>that to happen? No? I didn't think so... neither do the rest of us.

Not to mention, it's generally considered not very polite to tell
someone how to do their job unless they solicit your advice or you
happen to be their boss.

- ANDREA

-- 
  Get PAID for the emails you already send and receive! 
http://www.mailround.com/  Referrer: andrea@bloodaxe.com
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Hey Ray I was thinking if you can't make a movie couldn't you make a show or 
mini-series for T.V.

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Subject: Re: Finished HE
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Subject: Re: Finished HE
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 08:40:05 +1000
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>
> Don't know about Corwin.  Bill and I talked about it, and at one point
> in the draft there was a mention he got toasted in another fight, but I
> think that reference got cut.
>
> I'll check the final text and if he's still around, I might use him
> again.
>
> Glad you enjoyed the book.
>
> Best, R.E.F.

I'm only halfway through so far and I am enjoying the book immensely. The
thing that really sticks out to me is that it would make a great, doable
even, movie. I know "not another movie thread", but i've been of the opinion
in the past that most of your previous books would not translate well to
film, while being faithful to the books anyway.

HE just strikes me as being perfect for the big screen. The only problem
would be accessibility for those unfamiliar with your works, and the races
involved. Those of you who have read it - do you agree?

In anycase enjoying the book - thanks!

Daniel



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From: John <john@crydee.com>
Subject: Re: HE just arrived!
References: <73.1129b5ee.28a30298@aol.com> <aXgcslRyrac7Ew33@cableinet.co.uk>
 <00b501c12055$d8f92480$478c01d4@m7i8e3>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 23:43:04 +0100
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From: John <john@crydee.com>
Subject: Re: HE just arrived!
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Maria Parsonage <mpday@strayduck.com> writes
>Sorry if I seem ignorant but could you please tell me what IIRC stands
>for. I've been wondering for weeks!
>
>Maria
>
Well.... If I Remember Correctly..... :)

-- 
John

john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.

Raymond E Feist Ring
http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 15:53:56 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Wednesday, August 8, 2001, at 03:30 PM, Valheru89@aol.com wrote:

> Hey Ray I was thinking if you can't make a movie couldn't you make a 
> show or
> mini-series for T.V.
>

No.

I don't make movies.  I don't make TV shows.  I'm not a studio.  I am a 
person.

Now, if you know a studio who wants to give me ridiculous scads of money 
to make a film or tv show, feel free to have them call me.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.

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From: "Jason Mulligan" <sulimo@bigpond.net.au>
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On 8/08/2001 at 15:53 PM Raymond Feist wrote:

>No.
>
>
>I don't make movies.  I don't make TV shows.  I'm not a studio.  I am
>a person.
>
>
>Now, if you know a studio who wants to give me ridiculous scads of
>money to make a film or tv show, feel free to have them call me.

Speaking of which, with adaptions of your work is your preference to
be involved in the scripting process or just that they back up a
sufficiently large truck of cash and then you take little or no
involvement after that?




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Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 17:53:18 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
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On Wednesday, August 8, 2001, at 05:14 PM, Jason Mulligan wrote:

> On 8/08/2001 at 15:53 PM Raymond Feist wrote:
>
>> No.
>>
>>
>> I don't make movies.  I don't make TV shows.  I'm not a studio.  I am
>> a person.
>>
>>
>> Now, if you know a studio who wants to give me ridiculous scads of
>> money to make a film or tv show, feel free to have them call me.
>
> Speaking of which, with adaptions of your work is your preference to be 
> involved in the scripting
> process or just that they back up a sufficiently large truck of cash 
> and then you take little or no
> involvement after that?
>
>
>

The latter.  I grew up in the film business so it holds no magic or 
mystery for me.  I would just as soon they invite me to the premier and 
buy the popcorn, but as far as writing scripts, no thank you.  You 
should see the screenplay they did for Faerie Tale.  It is to laugh (or 
to weep, depending on how seriously you take these things).

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: 
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 20:51:34 -0500
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Simle answer to this is "Yes they are different styles".  In fact
they were written for different people to read.  The hobbit is
certainly children's lit.  LotR and the accompaning books are more
for adults.  Same rules apply for most of C.S. Lewis' stuff versus
his Narnia stuff.

> I don't think so. The Hobbit & Lord of the Rings, to me, are a bit
> different in terms of writing style. I read The Hobbit some time after
> LotR and whilst I enjoyed it, it just wasn't the same story or anything.
> Didn't capture me the same way that LotR did.
>
> Craig J. Ries
>



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To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
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> James Young wrote:
> >
> > More often we find those that write purely action
> > with little development of characters (dragonlance, forgotten
> > realms).
>
> As one who has been a long time fan of Dragonlance, I think you should
> separate the "pulp" (as some of us call it) of worlds like DL and some
> of the best that those worlds have to offer. For Dragonlance, this would
> be the first two trilogies: Chronicles and Legends.
>
> To just call DL "purely action" is, imo, mistaken.

It is action fantasy, and very little of the majority of it is good
character developement and dialogue.  And I will admit there are
some gems in the books under that catagory...same with FR (I happen
to like Elaine Cunningham's books).  However that doesn't change the
over all group's focus.

-James



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Subject: Re: Exactly what is a "fantasy movie"?
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To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Exactly what is a "fantasy movie"?
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2001 3:25 PM
Subject: Re: Exactly what is a "fantasy movie"?


> James Young wrote:
> >
> >     Exactly what movies are we defining as "Fantasy"?
>
> *shudders* Most movies have been so bad that we wouldn't want to claim
> them as being part of the genre :)

Doesn't this bring up the question: If fantasy movies are often so
awful, why do we go spend all the money to see them?

> I'm not sure what all the terms are any more, but the terms for books
> don't seem to apply as well to movies.

They don't.  But then again, it is often hard for people to really
define all books that way as well.  Examples might be Saberhagen's
sword series, which (spoiler) is actually our world 2000 years in
the future, thrown back into the darkages, kinda similar to Brook's
Shannara series in that respect.  Then there is Anne McCaffry, who
writes about dragons, but is most definately Sci-Fi.

> I mean, I've always considered Star Wars a fantasy movie, not science
> fiction (even though it contains some sci-fi elements).

Agreed.

-James



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dude the hobbit is not a childrens novel its like teen even though i did read 
it in second grade.

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Does anyone know, without a doubt, the order in which these novels should be
read?

Joey

----- Original Message -----
From: "Raymond Feist" <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2001 11:53 AM
Subject: Re:


>
> On Tuesday, August 7, 2001, at 05:22 AM, James Silva wrote:
>
> >
> > If you are going to read Dumas' Musketeer series, read "The Vicomte De
> > Bragelonne" and "Louis De La Vallere" before concluding with "The Man
> > in the Iron Mask," else you are missing a good chunk of the story.
> >
>
> If memory serves, those two volumes were combined into Twenty Years
> After.
>
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
>
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
> stupidity.
>
>



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the lord of the rings or Rays work

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Subject: Re: Dumas novels
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From: "Joseph A. Benckert" <jbenckert@jersey.net>
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Subject: Re: Dumas novels
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 00:00:33 -0400
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The Dumas novels that Ray was writing about, which were the subject of
discussion in the quoted text in my reply.
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: Valheru89@aol.com 
>To: FEISTFANS-L 
>Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2001 11:43 PM
>Subject: Re: 
>
>
>the lord of the rings or Rays work 

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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 14:05:06 +1000 (EST)
From: David Smith - NT Interoperability Engineer <David.M.Smith@Sun.COM>
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Go check out John's site http://www.crydee.com and press the "Reading Order" 
button which is near the top of the left frame.

-- David Smith

» Does anyone know, without a doubt, the order in which these novels should be
» read?
» 
» Joey
» 
» ----- Original Message -----
» From: "Raymond Feist" <raymond@bittersea.com>
» To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
» Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2001 11:53 AM
» Subject: Re:
» 
» 
» >
» > On Tuesday, August 7, 2001, at 05:22 AM, James Silva wrote:
» >
» > >
» > > If you are going to read Dumas' Musketeer series, read "The Vicomte De
» > > Bragelonne" and "Louis De La Vallere" before concluding with "The Man
» > > in the Iron Mask," else you are missing a good chunk of the story.
» > >
» >
» > If memory serves, those two volumes were combined into Twenty Years
» > After.
» >
» > Best, R.E.F.
» > ----
» >
» > Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
» > stupidity.
» >
» >
» 



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Subject: Re: Dumas novels
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From: "Rob Kolech" <rkolech1@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re: Dumas novels
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 00:27:40 -0400
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He's NOT asking about Ray's novels.  He's talking about the musketeer
series.  I wish I could help Joseph but I have not read any of that stuff.

By the way IIRC didn't the 3 Musketeers have swords NOT muskets.  Does that
seem wierd to anyone else?


>----- Original Message -----
>From: Joseph A. Benckert
>To: FEISTFANS-L
>Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2001 12:00 AM
>Subject: Re: Dumas novels
>
>
>The Dumas novels that Ray was writing about, which were the subject of
>discussion in the quoted text in my reply.
>----- Original Message -----
>>From: Valheru89@aol.com
>>To: FEISTFANS-L
>>Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2001 11:43 PM
>>Subject: Re:
>>
>>
>>the lord of the rings or Rays work
>>
>

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Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 21:39:26 -0700
From: Carl Dershem <dershem@home.com>
Organization: Project Selene
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Dumas novels
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Rob Kolech wrote:
> 
> He's NOT asking about Ray's novels.  He's talking about the musketeer
> series.  I wish I could help Joseph but I have not read any of that stuff.
> 
> By the way IIRC didn't the 3 Musketeers have swords NOT muskets.  Does that
> seem wierd to anyone else?

Nah - if you read the history of the times, the "Musketeers" were an
elite unit who were permitted and trained to use muskets, which were a
fairly new development at the time.  But a musket took a significant
amount of time to load and ready for fire, and was, at best, an
inefficient and clumsy weapon, and so little used for personal combat. 
The musket was a MILITARY weapon, best used in massed formations.

The sword, on the other hand, is a highly personal weapon, and very well
designed for one-on-one combat, and (compared to a musket) a lot more
fun and dramatic to use.  It was also the standard fallback weapon of
choice for armies, if the enemy got through the lines of musket and
cannon fire, and past the pikemen and archers (which were still used -
the rate and accuracy of musket fire at the time of the 100 years' war
was less than longbow fire).

And, of course, Dumas knew all of this.  The musketeers had muskets -
but writing about the situations where they used them was nowhere near
as interesting or exciting as the times when they faced their opponents,
one-on-one, face-to-face with swords (or, sometimes, bare wits).

And if you like the Dumas, try reading Steve Brust's Paarfi books:  "The
Phoenix Guards," and "500 years after."  Part tip of the hat, part
pastiche.

cd



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From: Larry Scroggins <falling_98@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Dumas novels
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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 Speaking of the 3 Musketeers... Has anyone else seen the trailer for
"the Musketeer"?  It looks like Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon with
french people.  I think it comes out on Sept.  8.

  Rob Kolech <rkolech1@hotmail.com> wrote:
>He's NOT asking about Ray's novels. He's talking about the musketeer
>series. I wish I could help Joseph but I have not read any of that stuff.
>
>By the way IIRC didn't the 3 Musketeers have swords NOT muskets. Does that
>seem wierd to anyone else?

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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 23:58:59 -0500
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
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Raymond Feist wrote:
> 
> Ideas are cheap.  Writing books is the hard part.

That sounds like my major problem when it comes to writing :)

Craig J. Ries



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Subject: Re: Exactly what is a "fantasy movie"?
References: <20010807184950.23374.qmail@web12703.mail.yahoo.com> <005901c11fa0$b4aab7c0$2f1e3acb@heechee> <002601c11fd7$632e4150$0100a8c0@dragon> <200108081516050616.015B7E44@mail-hub> <p04310100b7969ba7719f@[192.168.0.2]> <002a01c12013$ed2cfae0$7a42fc9e@oemcomputer> <3B71A03C.247698A7@yifan.net> <00d001c12078$0b7a18c0$a941fc9e@oemcomputer>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2001 00:06:45 -0500
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Exactly what is a "fantasy movie"?
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James Young wrote:
> 
> Doesn't this bring up the question: If fantasy movies are often so
> awful, why do we go spend all the money to see them?

We keep hoping to find some diamonds in the rough?

Just to note, Margaret Weis herself stated that releasing last year's
D&D movie in other countries "would be tantamount to a declaration of
war". :)

Craig J. Ries



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Raymond Feist wrote:
> 
> The latter.  I grew up in the film business so it holds no magic or
> mystery for me.  I would just as soon they invite me to the premier and
> buy the popcorn, but as far as writing scripts, no thank you.  You
> should see the screenplay they did for Faerie Tale.  It is to laugh (or
> to weep, depending on how seriously you take these things).

Well, if you wouldn't want to be involved in the process of making a
movie (or tv movie or whatever), then I hope they never bother to make
one.
As much as I'd love to see some of my favorite books turned into movies
or whatnot, generally these "adaptations" are failures.

I mean, take Jurassic Park, for example. Excellent movie, and whilst the
movie was good in itself, it wasn't the book. Things are changed
unneccessarily, etc.

Craig J. Ries



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Subject: The HE Experience
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Joseph A. Benckert" <jbenckert@jersey.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: The HE Experience
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 01:40:36 -0400
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Ray,

Not sure if this has been discussed before, but here goes:

We've all heard, in great detail, what the experience of writing with
Wurts was like.  Now that you've done this with another author, what
did you think of the overall experience and of working with Forstchen?
Any unexpected downfalls or pleasant surprises?

Would you like to do a repeat with Bill?

I know you take the lead because it's your world that the both of you
are working in, but was the work 50/50?  I mean, when it came to
character development and the plot, was that more of your input or
Bill's?

Also, exactly how does the process work?  You've said that with Janny
that you both wrote pieces and traded them off to each other for
rewrites. Did this work come to be in a similar way?

Hope I haven't asked anything I shouldn't have.

Thanks,
Joey

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Subject: Re: The HE Experience
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From: "Joseph A. Benckert" <jbenckert@jersey.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: The HE Experience
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Sorry all.

I forgot to turn off the html format before I sent that last post.

Joey

----- Original Message -----
>From: Joseph A. Benckert
>To: FEISTFANS-L
>Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2001 1:40 AM
>Subject: The HE Experience
>
>
>Ray,
>
>Not sure if this has been discussed before, but here goes:
>
>We've all heard, in great detail, what the experience of writing with Wurts
>was like.  Now that you've done this with another author, what did you think
>of the overall experience and of working with Forstchen?  Any unexpected
>downfalls or pleasant surprises?
>
>Would you like to do a repeat with Bill?
>
>I know you take the lead because it's your world that the both of you are
>working in, but was the work 50/50?  I mean, when it came to character
>development and the plot, was that more of your input or Bill's?
>
>Also, exactly how does the process work?  You've said that with Janny that
>you both wrote pieces and traded them off to each other for rewrites. Did
>this work come to be in a similar way?
>
>Hope I haven't asked anything I shouldn't have.
>
>Thanks,
>Joey
>


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From: "Stephen Forster" <sjforster@bigpond.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Honor Enemy in libraries
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 16:16:52 +1000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

For those of you waiting for the Brisbane City Council Library to give you a
copy of HE to lend to read, I was # 2 on the waiting list.

Today I received my notification that it is waiting for me. Goodie. Bad news
is that I there today and did not check, Oh well there is always tomorrow.

Stephen.



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Subject: Re: Honor Enemy in libraries
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*** EOOH ***
From: "A Irving" <aignome@dingoblue.net.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Honor Enemy in libraries
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 17:28:30 +1000
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As it turned out I had the money from my tax return back so I could easily
afford it, this time.
----- Original Message -----
From: Stephen Forster <sjforster@bigpond.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2001 4:16 PM
Subject: Honor Enemy in libraries


> For those of you waiting for the Brisbane City Council Library to give you a
> copy of HE to lend to read, I was # 2 on the waiting list.
>
> Today I received my notification that it is waiting for me. Goodie. Bad news
> is that I there today and did not check, Oh well there is always tomorrow.
>
> Stephen.
>



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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: Suggestions
In-Reply-To: <F852DreBBsQwY6YHkid000025a1@hotmail.com>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2001 08:46:47 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: Suggestions
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At 06:24 PM 8/8/01 +0000, David Christensen wrote:
>I'm a bit tentative about this, so before I even go ahead I should probably ask if its ok- is Ray open to suggestions on upcoming books here?

Nah.  We let Ray write his own books.  The closest anyone
gets is like Mike's last post "What happened to Xyz?" and maybe
that will suggest something.  

Otherwise, we leave it to Ray and his own imagination.  Which
you must admit is pretty good.  So if your idea is good, he'll
think of it too ;->

rip



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From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: Who made the Mad God mad?
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2001 08:50:59 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: Who made the Mad God mad?
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At 08:55 PM 8/8/01 +0000, mike galanti wrote:
>If your up to guessing why not Macros.  Maybe some god sent him back in time just to really annoy one god and that god turned into the mad god.

The Mad God started out as a fruit seller actually, see, and he
had this warehouse with an orange bin that kept emptying itself...
and once it even filled full of seawater, inexplicably.  

That'd be enough to drive anyone mad.  So he decided to change
his line of work.

rip

Want an orange?



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Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2001 09:12:42 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: 
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At 10:30 PM 8/8/01 -0400, Valheru89@aol.com wrote:
>dude the hobbit is not a childrens novel its like teen even though i did read 
>it in second grade. 

Hi,

If you are going to post to the list, could you please 
follow the following, few simple rules on being a good 
neighbor:

Write in correct, standard written English, as best you 
are able.  Some members of the list do not have English 
as their first language.

Remember: i isn't you, and u isn't me.  Those constructions 
are slang or argot, and are really not acceptable here.  

Try to keep your lines under 80 characters (that is what 
the carriage return is for), and turn off the fancy HTML 
garbage...most of us have our email programs set to ignore 
it, so you are just wasting bandwidth.  And if you persist, 
we just set our filters on deep-fat-fry and terminate your 
posts automatically.

Prune any text in a response that is not directly related 
to what you are responding to, but DO leave in enough so 
that the context is understood.

Don't "Me too!".  Resist responding to every post.  More 
than five posts a day is probably excessive.  

And here are some more, not directly related to your posts, 
but are good to know anyway:

Do Not Start Off Topic Threads.  
Do not post Internet humor.  We've seen it already.  Honest.  
Don't confuse your Opinion for Absolute Truth.  
If it contains a spoiler, use spoiler space.  
Don't assume all have read the book.  
Swearing does not improve the strength of the point you are trying to make.  
Don't try to teach Ray how to write and don't tell him what to write, either.  
Don't even think about posting fanfic.  

hth,
rip
-- 
"Well, if it isn't our old friend IndianaJJr of AOLand...I thought you'd been
run out of these parts, pardner."



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Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 03:05:18 -0500
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It most certainly is.  Tolkien himself said it was, as will anyone
who knows anything about children's fairy tales.  What on earth gave
you the idea it was a "teen" book?

----- Original Message -----
From: <Valheru89@aol.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2001 9:30 PM
Subject: Re:


> dude the hobbit is not a childrens novel its like teen even though i did read
> it in second grade.
>



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Subject: Re: Who made the Mad God mad?
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From: "A Irving" <aignome@dingoblue.net.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Who made the Mad God mad?
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 19:09:26 +1000
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But since Nakor  takes oranges (and occasionally apples) still, does that
mean his little rift is outside of Time?
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
> At 08:55 PM 8/8/01 +0000, mike galanti wrote:
> >If your up to guessing why not Macros.  Maybe some god sent him back in
> >time just to really annoy one god and that god turned into the mad god.
> The Mad God started out as a fruit seller actually, see, and he
> had this warehouse with an orange bin that kept emptying itself...
> and once it even filled full of seawater, inexplicably.
> rip
>
> Want an orange?
I wonder if Nakor has cancer from too much vitamin C?
CIAO,
          Aaron

http://www.hallofworlds.net/kerr/main.php
http://www.nightshadow.co.uk



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Hello All
Spoiler for Serpentwar Series




















If I remember correctly, the seven controller gods where essentially
opposites of each other. With Ishap and Arch-Indar dead (or whatever
Gods become when they die), there was no balance. Nalar (as far as I
can understand) was always mad - before the Chaos wars he was just
kept in check by Ishap and the goddess of good.

Just my 2c worth.



Wednesday, August 08, 2001, 11:35:00 AM, you wrote:

DC> Of course it would be silly to ask :) but why not give a guess? Personally 
DC> i'm very eagerly awaiting the upcoming books for the answer to that 
DC> question. Anyways heres a few guesses that are way out there :)

DC> -Nakor??? Somehow I have the feeling he isn't what he appears to be. Maybe 
DC> he's really an agent for some sinister entity?

DC> -The Aal. The first race ever created... and the Oracle has a way of making 
DC> the minds of the bodies she occupies insane. Perhaps they have some secret 
DC> ambition and hold the gods in contempt?

DC> Can't think of anything else. Maybe the Eldar in some strange fashion, I 
DC> dunno.

DC> _________________________________________________________________
DC> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp


--
"You still take the fun out of life"
Best regards,
 Paul                            mailto:pjduthie@iprimus.com.au



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Subject: Re: Who made the Mad God mad?
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From: "James Barker" <heechee@softhome.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Who made the Mad God mad?
Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 23:21:00 +1000
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----- Original Message -----
From: Paul Duthie <pjduthie@iprimus.com.au>
To: David Christensen (FEISTFANS-L) <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2001 3:01 PM
Subject: Re: Who made the Mad God mad?


> Hello All
> Spoiler for Serpentwar Series
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> If I remember correctly, the seven controller gods where essentially
> opposites of each other. With Ishap and Arch-Indar dead (or whatever
> Gods become when they die), there was no balance. Nalar (as far as I
> can understand) was always mad - before the Chaos wars he was just
> kept in check by Ishap and the goddess of good.

My understanding of the word "mad" as used here is not in the "to the funny
farm, where life is beautiful all the time!" sense, instead as an
approximation of Nalar's particular bent on the universe - e.g. chaos. He's
not mad as a human would be mad, and the rest of the gods probably couldn't
be said to be sane, as a human would be. After all, he's not the weird guy
from work who truly believes in Star Trek and gets somewhat less that his
quota of natural light, he's a god. Why should he be limited to a human
state of mind?

That probably made no sense to anyone. It's late, I'm tired.

Cheers,
James



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From: "Michael Renn" <troubador7@hotmail.com>
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References: <20010807184950.23374.qmail@web12703.mail.yahoo.com> <005901c11fa0$b4aab7c0$2f1e3acb@heechee> <002601c11fd7$632e4150$0100a8c0@dragon> <200108081516050616.015B7E44@mail-hub> <p04310100b7969ba7719f@[192.168.0.2]> <002a01c12013$ed2cfae0$7a42fc9e@oemcomputer> <3B71A03C.247698A7@yifan.net> <00d001c12078$0b7a18c0$a941fc9e@oemcomputer> <3B721A65.984B47DC@yifan.net>
Subject: Re: Exactly what is a "fantasy movie"?
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 08:15:19 -0700
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Subject: Re: Exactly what is a "fantasy movie"?
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 08:15:19 -0700
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Hell, releasing it in this country was a declaration of war!  It damaged the
reputation of an already frowned-upon medium of entertainment and ruined a
great opportunity to build up tolerance and fan-base by doing something
worth while.  What the heck were they thinking? (That's a rhetorical
question. :-))

Michael

----- Original Message -----
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2001 10:06 PM
Subject: Re: Exactly what is a "fantasy movie"?


> James Young wrote:
> >
> > Doesn't this bring up the question: If fantasy movies are often so
> > awful, why do we go spend all the money to see them?
>
> We keep hoping to find some diamonds in the rough?
>
> Just to note, Margaret Weis herself stated that releasing last year's
> D&D movie in other countries "would be tantamount to a declaration of
> war". :)
>
> Craig J. Ries
>
>



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Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 08:20:14 -0700
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From: "Michael Renn" <troubador7@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re:
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 08:20:14 -0700
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Sorry, I just realized I broke this rule here in my last post.  My
apologies.
Thanks for taking the time to line these out.  It's extremely helpful.

Michael

> Swearing does not improve the strength of the point you are trying to make.
> Don't try to teach Ray how to write and don't tell him what to write, either.
> Don't even think about posting fanfic.
>
> hth,
> rip
> --
> "Well, if it isn't our old friend IndianaJJr of AOLand...I thought you'd been
> run out of these parts, pardner."
>
>



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Subject: Re: Who made the Mad God mad?
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From: "Michael Renn" <troubador7@hotmail.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Who made the Mad God mad?
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 08:25:46 -0700
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SerpentWar saga spoiler:
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Well, I believe that it is mentioned in the Serpentwar saga that "mad" is a
frame of reference the "heros"
Are using to understand his actions, which make no sense, due to his direct
ties to the world of
Midkemia.  If you are tied to a world as intrinsically as Nalar is to
Midkemia (the gods are representations
of energies of the world) then why would you be trying to destroy all life
on your
world?  There might be some reason, but mortals can't fathom it.  The best
we can do is call him "mad."

Michael

> My understanding of the word "mad" as used here is not in the "to the funny
> farm, where life is beautiful all the time!" sense, instead as an
> approximation of Nalar's particular bent on the universe - e.g. chaos. He's
> not mad as a human would be mad, and the rest of the gods probably couldn't
> be said to be sane, as a human would be. After all, he's not the weird guy
> from work who truly believes in Star Trek and gets somewhat less that his
> quota of natural light, he's a god. Why should he be limited to a human
> state of mind?
>
> That probably made no sense to anyone. It's late, I'm tired.
>
> Cheers,
> James
>
>



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Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 09:05:08 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: The HE Experience
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On Wednesday, August 8, 2001, at 10:40 PM, Joseph A. Benckert wrote:

> Ray,
>  
> Not sure if this has been discussed before, but here goes:
>  
> We've all heard, in great detail, what the experience of writing with 
> Wurts was like.  Now that you've done this with another author, what 
> did you think of the overall experience and of working with Forstchen?  
> Any unexpected downfalls or pleasant surprises?
>  
> Would you like to do a repeat with Bill?
>  
> I know you take the lead because it's your world that the both of you 
> are working in, but was the work 50/50?  I mean, when it came to 
> character development and the plot, was that more of your input or 
> Bill's?
>  
> Also, exactly how does the process work?  You've said that with Janny 
> that you both wrote pieces and traded them off to each other for 
> rewrites. Did this work come to be in a similar way?
>  
> Hope I haven't asked anything I shouldn't have.
>  
> Thanks,
> Joey

The process with Bill and Joel (so far) is a bit different than it was 
with Janny.

There are lots of reasons for this, but to sum up, each is a different 
writer/personality.

We agreed on a theme, then discussed plot, then the lads start banging 
out 1st draft.  I rewrite and add/delete, and send back notes on things 
that aren't "Midkemian."  For example, early on Bill had the elves being 
telepathic to a point.  I toned that down to a "sense" between Tinuva 
and the approaching Moredhel, which worked just as well dramatically, 
without me having to change fundamental rules of how the world works.

As for working with Bill again, I'd have no problem with it.  He's a 
heck of a writer, and besides, Honored Enemy just jumped onto the 
Hardcover Bestseller list in Britain at number 10 its first week out.

As for ideas, we talked a lot, so I can say that the characters are 
pretty close to 50/50, though (for example) Dennis is more Bill's 
character than mine, while Bovai was more mine than Bill's, but that's 
quibbling than not.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.

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Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 09:49:26 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Who made the Mad God mad?
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On Thursday, August 9, 2001, at 10:01 PM, Paul Duthie wrote:

> Hello All
> Spoiler for Serpentwar Series
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> If I remember correctly, the seven controller gods where essentially
> opposites of each other. With Ishap and Arch-Indar dead (or whatever
> Gods become when they die), there was no balance. Nalar (as far as I
> can understand) was always mad - before the Chaos wars he was just
> kept in check by Ishap and the goddess of good.
>
> Just my 2c worth.
>
>

That's a fair summation.

Here's the theoretical underpinnings, and if you think it might prove to 
be a spoiler for future books, don't read.  I don't think it will be, 
any more than knowing that Arthur dies at the end of the Arthurian Cycle 
at the hands of Mordred spoils reading any good Arthurian story.

Each world has it's unique structure in my fantasy universe, hence 
Kelwan and Midkemia have cosmic similarities, but differences.

I assumed there was a central "mind" if you will, similar in a way to 
George Lucas's Force, I guess, but one with a moving consciousness.

Rule number 1:  human's can't understand that consciousness any more 
than an ant can comprehend a human's.  The sale is too vast.  So, any 
model used for discussion is flawed.  I can't stress enough how 
frustrating it is to write this stuff knowing that I'm constantly having 
to have characters "peek" through the crack in the fence, to use the 
analogy I employed in Rage.

This was why as Macros began to merge with Sarig, he began to lose 
identity.  As the consciousness grew, it bacame progressively less human.

Rule number 2: the nature of each controller god is to play a PART.  Not 
a whole, but rather to be the embodiment of one aspect of totality.  So 
the Good Goddess is 100% good.  The "ghost" character in Tear can act 
like a human, but underneath the crusty old woman is a spirit that is 
100% good.  Contrarily, Nalar is 100% evil.

Rule number 3: each world expresses the nature of these deities through 
their unique "lens," i.e. they see each lesser god differently, and each 
controller god manifests in a unique fashion.  So, Silbi may be 
equivalent to Lims-Kragma, but she will be different.

Finally, the nature of evil.  When you strip away the natural horror 
attached to something incredibly evil, you are left with two things.  
For example, the single biggest definable example of evil in modern 
history would be the Nazis extermination of millions of people.  Step 
away from the repulsion the thought of the death camps brings and 
examine it with dispassion and you come away with the realization that 
evil is wasteful.   Exterminating people because you find them offensive 
for some reason or another, race, religion, whatever is stupid.   The 
Nazi's may have killed a budding Motzart, another Einstein, someone who 
would have found the cure for cancer, etc.   Hence, to be evil is 
crazy.  So by his very nature, Nalar must be mad.

Contrast this to self-serving behavior which has some logic attached.  
Guy du Bas-Tyra was the "evil" guy until Darkness at which point he gave 
a reasonable account of his actions.  Not laudatory, obviously, but 
understandable and in his personal context, justified.

"True evil" is often banal in literature, and I reject it being used 
that way.  If you look at the really effective pulp guys of the 30's, 
Merrit, Lovecraft, etc. they portray evil as an outgrowth of something 
alien, almost beyond understanding.  An ancient god or a dark sect that 
can't be fully comprehended by modern man.  Because if you turn the 
harsh light of logic on "evil" it rapidly becomes stupid and wasteful.  
Which is nuts.

Best, R.E.F.

  ----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re: Dumas novels
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Subject: Re: Dumas novels
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Actually, they had both swords and muskets, as the novels take place in the 
1600's.

Adieu

Jimmy


>From: "Rob Kolech" <rkolech1@hotmail.com>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
>Subject: Re: Dumas novels
>Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 00:27:40 -0400
>
>He's NOT asking about Ray's novels.  He's talking about the musketeer
>series.  I wish I could help Joseph but I have not read any of that stuff.
>
>By the way IIRC didn't the 3 Musketeers have swords NOT muskets.  Does that
>seem wierd to anyone else?
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Joseph A. Benckert
>To: FEISTFANS-L
>Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2001 12:00 AM
>Subject: Re: Dumas novels
>
>
>The Dumas novels that Ray was writing about, which were the subject of
>discussion in the quoted text in my reply.
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Valheru89@aol.com
>To: FEISTFANS-L
>Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2001 11:43 PM
>Subject: Re:
>
>
>the lord of the rings or Rays work
>


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From: "Paddyjack [ ]" <erykel@lycos.com>
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Well, I finally decided to get a look at amazon.uk, and I placed the
order for HE <g>  The total order, including air mail, amount to 19.34
pounds, which corresponds to 41$ can. I'm supposed to get it in less
than 2 weeks. That's about what I would have paid by normal means.

I could not wait, especially since I'm close to finish George Martin
3rd book, and this is sure to let met craving for other great things
to read :-)

Ray, of course I don't know where the negotiations are blocking, but
it could be useful to mention to a publishing house how much money
they will lose if they wait too much :-)

Paddyjack




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From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re: Who made the Mad God mad?
Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2001 18:14:17 -0400
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From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re: Who made the Mad God mad?
Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2001 18:14:17 -0400
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Hi Ray:

If Arch-Indar is 100% good, and Nalar is 100% Evil, Does that mean that:

Ishap is 100% Neutral?

Abram-Sev is 100% Lawful?

What about the other Controller gods, what aspect of reality do they 
represent?

Helbinor, Graf, and Ev-Dem?

Adieu

Jimmy




>From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
>Subject: Re: Who made the Mad God mad?
>Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 09:49:26 -0700
>
>
>On Thursday, August 9, 2001, at 10:01 PM, Paul Duthie wrote:
>
>>Hello All
>>Spoiler for Serpentwar Series
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>If I remember correctly, the seven controller gods where essentially
>>opposites of each other. With Ishap and Arch-Indar dead (or whatever
>>Gods become when they die), there was no balance. Nalar (as far as I
>>can understand) was always mad - before the Chaos wars he was just
>>kept in check by Ishap and the goddess of good.
>>
>>Just my 2c worth.
>>
>>
>
>That's a fair summation.
>
>Here's the theoretical underpinnings, and if you think it might prove to
>be a spoiler for future books, don't read.  I don't think it will be,
>any more than knowing that Arthur dies at the end of the Arthurian Cycle
>at the hands of Mordred spoils reading any good Arthurian story.
>
>Each world has it's unique structure in my fantasy universe, hence
>Kelwan and Midkemia have cosmic similarities, but differences.
>
>I assumed there was a central "mind" if you will, similar in a way to
>George Lucas's Force, I guess, but one with a moving consciousness.
>
>Rule number 1:  human's can't understand that consciousness any more
>than an ant can comprehend a human's.  The sale is too vast.  So, any
>model used for discussion is flawed.  I can't stress enough how
>frustrating it is to write this stuff knowing that I'm constantly having
>to have characters "peek" through the crack in the fence, to use the
>analogy I employed in Rage.
>
>This was why as Macros began to merge with Sarig, he began to lose
>identity.  As the consciousness grew, it bacame progressively less human.
>
>Rule number 2: the nature of each controller god is to play a PART.  Not
>a whole, but rather to be the embodiment of one aspect of totality.  So
>the Good Goddess is 100% good.  The "ghost" character in Tear can act
>like a human, but underneath the crusty old woman is a spirit that is
>100% good.  Contrarily, Nalar is 100% evil.
>
>Rule number 3: each world expresses the nature of these deities through
>their unique "lens," i.e. they see each lesser god differently, and each
>controller god manifests in a unique fashion.  So, Silbi may be
>equivalent to Lims-Kragma, but she will be different.
>
>Finally, the nature of evil.  When you strip away the natural horror
>attached to something incredibly evil, you are left with two things.
>For example, the single biggest definable example of evil in modern
>history would be the Nazis extermination of millions of people.  Step
>away from the repulsion the thought of the death camps brings and
>examine it with dispassion and you come away with the realization that
>evil is wasteful.   Exterminating people because you find them offensive
>for some reason or another, race, religion, whatever is stupid.   The
>Nazi's may have killed a budding Motzart, another Einstein, someone who
>would have found the cure for cancer, etc.   Hence, to be evil is
>crazy.  So by his very nature, Nalar must be mad.
>
>Contrast this to self-serving behavior which has some logic attached.
>Guy du Bas-Tyra was the "evil" guy until Darkness at which point he gave
>a reasonable account of his actions.  Not laudatory, obviously, but
>understandable and in his personal context, justified.
>
>"True evil" is often banal in literature, and I reject it being used
>that way.  If you look at the really effective pulp guys of the 30's,
>Merrit, Lovecraft, etc. they portray evil as an outgrowth of something
>alien, almost beyond understanding.  An ancient god or a dark sect that
>can't be fully comprehended by modern man.  Because if you turn the
>harsh light of logic on "evil" it rapidly becomes stupid and wasteful.
>Which is nuts.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>
>  ----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
>stupidity.
>


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp



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From: "David Christensen" <damc84@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re: Who made the Mad God mad?
Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2001 22:41:14 
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Subject: Re: Who made the Mad God mad?
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Wait, wait... maybe I'm not getting something here about Nalar. As far as I 
recall in Rage of a Demon King, we are told that something influenced Nalar 
to act outside of the 'rules' set forward which the gods obey (like 
Arch-Indar being 100% good), rendering him mad and starting the Chaos Wars. 
Does that mean that, 1) Nalar wasn't evil to begin with, but became so 
because of whatever caused him to go insane? 2) If he was evil to start 
with, that there was a set of rules that he even had to follow?

>From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
>Subject: Re: Who made the Mad God mad?
>Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 09:49:26 -0700
>
>
>On Thursday, August 9, 2001, at 10:01 PM, Paul Duthie wrote:
>
>>Hello All
>>Spoiler for Serpentwar Series
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>If I remember correctly, the seven controller gods where essentially
>>opposites of each other. With Ishap and Arch-Indar dead (or whatever
>>Gods become when they die), there was no balance. Nalar (as far as I
>>can understand) was always mad - before the Chaos wars he was just
>>kept in check by Ishap and the goddess of good.
>>
>>Just my 2c worth.
>>
>>
>
>That's a fair summation.
>
>Here's the theoretical underpinnings, and if you think it might prove to
>be a spoiler for future books, don't read.  I don't think it will be,
>any more than knowing that Arthur dies at the end of the Arthurian Cycle
>at the hands of Mordred spoils reading any good Arthurian story.
>
>Each world has it's unique structure in my fantasy universe, hence
>Kelwan and Midkemia have cosmic similarities, but differences.
>
>I assumed there was a central "mind" if you will, similar in a way to
>George Lucas's Force, I guess, but one with a moving consciousness.
>
>Rule number 1:  human's can't understand that consciousness any more
>than an ant can comprehend a human's.  The sale is too vast.  So, any
>model used for discussion is flawed.  I can't stress enough how
>frustrating it is to write this stuff knowing that I'm constantly having
>to have characters "peek" through the crack in the fence, to use the
>analogy I employed in Rage.
>
>This was why as Macros began to merge with Sarig, he began to lose
>identity.  As the consciousness grew, it bacame progressively less human.
>
>Rule number 2: the nature of each controller god is to play a PART.  Not
>a whole, but rather to be the embodiment of one aspect of totality.  So
>the Good Goddess is 100% good.  The "ghost" character in Tear can act
>like a human, but underneath the crusty old woman is a spirit that is
>100% good.  Contrarily, Nalar is 100% evil.
>
>Rule number 3: each world expresses the nature of these deities through
>their unique "lens," i.e. they see each lesser god differently, and each
>controller god manifests in a unique fashion.  So, Silbi may be
>equivalent to Lims-Kragma, but she will be different.
>
>Finally, the nature of evil.  When you strip away the natural horror
>attached to something incredibly evil, you are left with two things.
>For example, the single biggest definable example of evil in modern
>history would be the Nazis extermination of millions of people.  Step
>away from the repulsion the thought of the death camps brings and
>examine it with dispassion and you come away with the realization that
>evil is wasteful.   Exterminating people because you find them offensive
>for some reason or another, race, religion, whatever is stupid.   The
>Nazi's may have killed a budding Motzart, another Einstein, someone who
>would have found the cure for cancer, etc.   Hence, to be evil is
>crazy.  So by his very nature, Nalar must be mad.
>
>Contrast this to self-serving behavior which has some logic attached.
>Guy du Bas-Tyra was the "evil" guy until Darkness at which point he gave
>a reasonable account of his actions.  Not laudatory, obviously, but
>understandable and in his personal context, justified.
>
>"True evil" is often banal in literature, and I reject it being used
>that way.  If you look at the really effective pulp guys of the 30's,
>Merrit, Lovecraft, etc. they portray evil as an outgrowth of something
>alien, almost beyond understanding.  An ancient god or a dark sect that
>can't be fully comprehended by modern man.  Because if you turn the
>harsh light of logic on "evil" it rapidly becomes stupid and wasteful.
>Which is nuts.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>
>  ----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
>stupidity.
>


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp



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From: "Donna M. Jaggard" <donna@arwen.org>
Organization: arwen.org
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 15:54:07 -0700
Subject: Re: HE: placed the order too
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Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 15:54:07 -0700
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Paddyjack wrote:
> Well, I finally decided to get a look at amazon.uk, and I placed the
> order for HE <g>  The total order, including air mail, amount to 19.34
> pounds, which corresponds to 41$ can. I'm supposed to get it in less
> than 2 weeks. That's about what I would have paid by normal means.
> 
> I could not wait, especially since I'm close to finish George Martin
> 3rd book, and this is sure to let met craving for other great things
> to read :-)

Dude. Are you me? I, too, just ordered HE from amazon.co.uk. 
And, since I'm also in Canada, the price was the same. And I'm 
just about finished reading A Storm of Swords (well, for the second 
time, but still).

Now stop that. The world cannot handle more than one me. 

-d

--
Donna M. Jaggard   |   http://www.arwen.org/
donna@arwen.org    |   http://www.web-goddess.net/
By the time you swear you're his, Shivering and sighing, 
And he vows his passion is Infinite, undying 
- Lady make note of this: One of you is lying.
              - Dorothy Parker 'Unfortunate Coincidence'



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Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 08:43:21 +0800
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From: Shawn Chung <shawnc@cyberway.com.sg>
Subject: Honored Enemy typos.
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Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 08:43:21 +0800
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From: Shawn Chung <shawnc@cyberway.com.sg>
Subject: Honored Enemy typos.
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Ray,

I'm just about to finish reading Honored Enemy, having just got it 
last night. :)  A great read, and very gripping.

I have, however, spotted a typo or two, and I was wondering if you 
were interested in 'debugging' it, as you were when Shards first came 
out...

Anyway, on page 111, it says 'Plane of Sar-Saragoth'.  Shouldn't it be 'Plain'?

Cheers,
-- 
Seeya Starside.

Shawn Chung

---------------------------------------
- I'd rather be ignorant than misinformed. -



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Subject: Re: Who made the Mad God mad?
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 15:44:28 -0700
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From: kuros@pgtv.net (kuros)
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Who made the Mad God mad?
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 15:44:28 -0700
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Aha! I remember that guy! He came into my bookstore, and bought "Evil For
Dummies", "Universal Domination for the Complete Idiot", and "Evil Godlike
Transformation in 10 Easy Steps." I'm glad to hear he's doing ok.

Kuros
"Sleep? Isn't that a completely unsuitable substitute for
caffeine?" -Programmer's axiom

((I thought it was funny, anyway. =))
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Williamson" <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2001 12:50 AM
Subject: Re: Who made the Mad God mad?


> At 08:55 PM 8/8/01 +0000, mike galanti wrote:
> >If your up to guessing why not Macros.  Maybe some god sent him back in
> time just to really annoy one god and that god turned into the mad god.
>
> The Mad God started out as a fruit seller actually, see, and he
> had this warehouse with an orange bin that kept emptying itself...
> and once it even filled full of seawater, inexplicably.
>
> That'd be enough to drive anyone mad.  So he decided to change
> his line of work.
>
> rip
>
> Want an orange?
>
>



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Subject: prose
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From: "C.T. Cusimano" <supert@redshift.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: prose
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 17:23:12 -0700
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anyones thoughts on the change of the writing styles from magician to
the legacy series?
the descriptions are more vibrant in magician imho.

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From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re: HE: placed the order too
Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2001 21:11:17 -0400
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Subject: Re: HE: placed the order too
Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2001 21:11:17 -0400
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I too, just ordered from Amazon.co.uk, only I'm down in the Sates. I don't 
know how much it will cost me in US Greenbacks, but I don't care. God bless 
Credit Cards.

I was trying to be a tough guy and wait for it to be published in North 
America, but I caved! I'n not worthy! I'm not worthy! Anyhow, I'm just way 
too addicted to Mr. Feist's work. I can't wait til it arrives.

Adieu

Jimmy

>From: "Donna M. Jaggard" <donna@arwen.org>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
>Subject: Re: HE: placed the order too
>Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 15:54:07 -0700
>
>Paddyjack wrote:
> > Well, I finally decided to get a look at amazon.uk, and I placed the
> > order for HE <g>  The total order, including air mail, amount to 19.34
> > pounds, which corresponds to 41$ can. I'm supposed to get it in less
> > than 2 weeks. That's about what I would have paid by normal means.
> >
> > I could not wait, especially since I'm close to finish George Martin
> > 3rd book, and this is sure to let met craving for other great things
> > to read :-)
>
>Dude. Are you me? I, too, just ordered HE from amazon.co.uk.
>And, since I'm also in Canada, the price was the same. And I'm
>just about finished reading A Storm of Swords (well, for the second
>time, but still).
>
>Now stop that. The world cannot handle more than one me.
>
>-d
>
>--
>Donna M. Jaggard   |   http://www.arwen.org/
>donna@arwen.org    |   http://www.web-goddess.net/
>By the time you swear you're his, Shivering and sighing,
>And he vows his passion is Infinite, undying
>- Lady make note of this: One of you is lying.
>               - Dorothy Parker 'Unfortunate Coincidence'
>


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp



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Subject: What happened to Hilda?
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From: "Aaron Howey" <ahowey@netcomuk.co.uk>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: What happened to Hilda?
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 02:18:51 +0100
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There may be minor spoliers about Tear of the Gods if you have not read it
yet, so I'll put some space in













I was just re-reading TotG and wondered what happened to that Goddess, or
dead Goddess, called Hilda? Will she appear again, like in the next two
Krondor the___ books, or a later series?

Also perhaps Nakor is agent of hers



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References: <F852DreBBsQwY6YHkid000025a1@hotmail.com> <jw3iVUMsOac7EwSN@cableinet.co.uk> <006b01c1205e$33bccb30$0100a8c0@dragon>
Subject: Re: Suggestions
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From: "Aaron Howey" <ahowey@netcomuk.co.uk>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Suggestions
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 01:59:25 +0100
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I don't think REF would be able together a whole story to fill a book. Also
most of it would be just, "The Valheru came across an aquatic race...they
destroyed them. The Valheru came across an advanced space-faring race...
they anihilated them. The Valheru came across a planet inhabited by
intelligent Llamas.. they pretended to be friendly, toyed with and THEN
destroyed them..."
There may be enough unique or interesting stuff to do a short story, such as
their origin; or an expansion upon the formation of the lifestone, or even
their war with, and their subsequent deaths at the hands of, the gods.

>>Well, I'd love to read more about the conquests of the Valheru. The planets
>>they conqured, etc. Maybe novels about their campaigns. Follow the life of
>>a single Valheru as he lives, and such. Though there is a coolness about
>>their mysterious, like helictites. No one knows how they form, they're just
>>there, and they're cool.



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Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 18:30:00 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Who made the Mad God mad?
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On Thursday, August 9, 2001, at 10:41 PM, David Christensen wrote:

>
> Wait, wait... maybe I'm not getting something here about Nalar. As far 
> as I recall in Rage of a Demon King, we are told that something 
> influenced Nalar to act outside of the 'rules' set forward which the 
> gods obey (like Arch-Indar being 100% good), rendering him mad and 
> starting the Chaos Wars. Does that mean that, 1) Nalar wasn't evil to 
> begin with, but became so because of whatever caused him to go insane? 
> 2) If he was evil to start with, that there was a set of rules that he 
> even had to follow?
>


He was always evil.  It was his nature to always be evil. To be evil is 
to be nuts.

He went outside the rules because he was nuts.  See?

The rules were the nature of the balance,  The Structures (Abram-Sev, 
Graf, etc.) over the balance, Arch-Indar and Nalar and Ishap.

He changed the rules by influencing the Valheru and the Lesser Gods 
(making some of them think they could expand their turf)  making them as 
mad as he is, and forced the Greater Gods to act, which wasn't in their 
nature.

Nalar caused the Chaos Wars, also know as The Mad Gods Rage.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 18:30:41 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Honored Enemy typos.
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On Friday, August 10, 2001, at 05:43 PM, Shawn Chung wrote:

> Ray,
>
> I'm just about to finish reading Honored Enemy, having just got it last 
> night. :)  A great read, and very gripping.
>
> I have, however, spotted a typo or two, and I was wondering if you were 
> interested in 'debugging' it, as you were when Shards first came out...
>
> Anyway, on page 111, it says 'Plane of Sar-Saragoth'.  Shouldn't it be 
> 'Plain'?
>
> Cheers,
> -- Seeya Starside.
>
> Shawn Chung
>
> ---------------------------------------
> - I'd rather be ignorant than misinformed. -
>
>

Thanks.  I'll forward that to Harper for the paperback.

Best, R.E.F.

----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 18:33:42 -0700
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 18:33:42 -0700
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Alan Kellogg <mythusmage@cts.com>
Subject: Re: Honored Enemy typos.
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

>Ray,
>
>I'm just about to finish reading Honored Enemy, having just got it 
>last night. :)  A great read, and very gripping.
>
>I have, however, spotted a typo or two, and I was wondering if you 
>were interested in 'debugging' it, as you were when Shards first 
>came out...
>
>Anyway, on page 111, it says 'Plane of Sar-Saragoth'.  Shouldn't it 
>be 'Plain'?
>
>Cheers,
>--
>Seeya Starside.
>
>Shawn Chung

A typo? Ray doesn't do typos. If it says 'plane' then plane it is. It 
does leave open the question of whether it's a Learjet or a Piper Cub.

Alan
-- 
_______

Mythusmage.com, <http://www.mythusmage.com> at its new location!

mailto:mythusmage@mythusmage.com

ICQ: 103299329



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From: "Joseph A. Benckert" <jbenckert@jersey.net>
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References: <F102SxvjPkQTGpaoG1V000048ae@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: HE: placed the order too
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 21:39:39 -0400
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From: "Joseph A. Benckert" <jbenckert@jersey.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: HE: placed the order too
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 21:39:39 -0400
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I also placed an order a few days ago.  Much to my dismay, Ray said the book
has become #10 in sales and if it remains so until Monday, then Amazon may
sell it for 50% off.

After a quick check, though, Amazon.co.uk has it listed at sales rank 149??

Anyway, here's the info all:

50% OFF BESTSELLING BOOKS
Must-have titles include the latest offering of mouth-watering,
easy-to-make recipes from Nigella Lawson; "How to Be Good", the brilliant
new novel by Nick Hornby; and the moving, long-awaited sequel to, "A Child
Called It" by Dave Pelzer. For amazing savings on blockbuster
titles--paperback, hardback, fiction and non-fiction--click here:

Paperback Fiction
http://www.amazon.co.uk/paperbackfiction2
Paperback Non-fiction
http://www.amazon.co.uk/paperbacknonfiction2
Hardback Fiction
http://www.amazon.co.uk/hardbackfiction2
Hardback Non-fiction
http://www.amazon.co.uk/hardbacknonfiction2


Joey

----- Original Message -----
From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2001 9:11 PM
Subject: Re: HE: placed the order too


>
>
> I too, just ordered from Amazon.co.uk, only I'm down in the Sates. I don't
> know how much it will cost me in US Greenbacks, but I don't care. God bless
> Credit Cards.
>
> I was trying to be a tough guy and wait for it to be published in North
> America, but I caved! I'n not worthy! I'm not worthy! Anyhow, I'm just way
> too addicted to Mr. Feist's work. I can't wait til it arrives.
>
> Adieu
>
> Jimmy
>
> >From: "Donna M. Jaggard" <donna@arwen.org>
> >Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> >To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
> >Subject: Re: HE: placed the order too
> >Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 15:54:07 -0700
> >
> >Paddyjack wrote:
> > > Well, I finally decided to get a look at amazon.uk, and I placed the
> > > order for HE <g>  The total order, including air mail, amount to 19.34
> > > pounds, which corresponds to 41$ can. I'm supposed to get it in less
> > > than 2 weeks. That's about what I would have paid by normal means.
> > >
> > > I could not wait, especially since I'm close to finish George Martin
> > > 3rd book, and this is sure to let met craving for other great things
> > > to read :-)
> >
> >Dude. Are you me? I, too, just ordered HE from amazon.co.uk.
> >And, since I'm also in Canada, the price was the same. And I'm
> >just about finished reading A Storm of Swords (well, for the second
> >time, but still).
> >
> >Now stop that. The world cannot handle more than one me.
> >
> >-d
> >
> >--
> >Donna M. Jaggard   |   http://www.arwen.org/
> >donna@arwen.org    |   http://www.web-goddess.net/
> >By the time you swear you're his, Shivering and sighing,
> >And he vows his passion is Infinite, undying
> >- Lady make note of this: One of you is lying.
> >               - Dorothy Parker 'Unfortunate Coincidence'
> >
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>
>



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From: Allan Mills <milla@css.com.au>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" (FEISTFANS-L) <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Honored Enemy typos.
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*** EOOH ***
From: Allan Mills <milla@css.com.au>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" (FEISTFANS-L) <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Honored Enemy typos.
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 11:43:10 +1000
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 It could also be the kind of plane you use to smooth wood. 

 Allan

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Alan Kellogg [mailto:mythusmage@cts.com]
> Sent: Friday, August 10, 2001 11:34 AM
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Subject: Re: Honored Enemy typos.
> 
> 
> A typo? Ray doesn't do typos. If it says 'plane' then plane it is. It 
> does leave open the question of whether it's a Learjet or a Piper Cub.
> 
> Alan
> -- 
> _______
> 
> Mythusmage.com, <http://www.mythusmage.com> at its new location!
> 
> mailto:mythusmage@mythusmage.com
> 
> ICQ: 103299329
> 
> 



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 18:46:36 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: What happened to Hilda?
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Thursday, August 9, 2001, at 06:18 PM, Aaron Howey wrote:

> There may be minor spoliers about Tear of the Gods if you have not read 
> it
> yet, so I'll put some space in
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I was just re-reading TotG and wondered what happened to that Goddess, 
> or
> dead Goddess, called Hilda? Will she appear again, like in the next two
> Krondor the___ books, or a later series?
>
> Also perhaps Nakor is agent of hers
>
>

You'll have to wait to find out.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 09:56:09 +1000
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Victoria E Quinton <mermaid@alphalink.com.au>
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http://www.fola.org.au

and 


http://nervousness.org/index.cgi

may be of interest to some on this list. Somebody may care to add a
'Feist-related exchange' to this latter site, for instance.

I hope everyone is well,

Regards and happy reading,

Victoria Quinton




Victoria Quinton
mermaid@alphalink.com.au


http://www.alphalink.com.au/~mermaid



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From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
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On Thursday, August 9, 2001, at 03:14 PM, James Silva wrote:

> Hi Ray:
>
> If Arch-Indar is 100% good, and Nalar is 100% Evil, Does that mean that:
>
> Ishap is 100% Neutral?
>
> Abram-Sev is 100% Lawful?
>
> What about the other Controller gods, what aspect of reality do they 
> represent?
>
> Helbinor, Graf, and Ev-Dem?

Abram-Sev is neither Lawful or Chaotic.

Abram-Sev is the builder, the overt force, the obvious, the external.

Ev-Dem is the worker from within, the covert, the hidden.

Graf is the weaver of dreams, the imagined, the stuff that glues the 
external and internal together, the binder.

Helbinor is the abstainer, the force that has no place, yet exists.  
Consider him the anti-mater of this mystic universe.

Ishap is the balancer, the force that keeps everything else in harmony.

Best, R.E.F.

----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Subject: Re: Exactly what is a "fantasy movie"?
In-Reply-To: <OE42eRaNgEpTX5V3Gyk000080ba@hotmail.com>
References: <20010807184950.23374.qmail@web12703.mail.yahoo.com>
 <005901c11fa0$b4aab7c0$2f1e3acb@heechee>
 <002601c11fd7$632e4150$0100a8c0@dragon>
 <200108081516050616.015B7E44@mail-hub>
 <p04310100b7969ba7719f@[192.168.0.2]>
 <002a01c12013$ed2cfae0$7a42fc9e@oemcomputer>
 <3B71A03C.247698A7@yifan.net>
 <00d001c12078$0b7a18c0$a941fc9e@oemcomputer>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2001 23:46:04 -0400
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Paul Arzooman <soundcage@erols.com>
Subject: Re: Exactly what is a "fantasy movie"?
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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At 08:15 AM 8/9/01 -0700, you wrote:
>Hell, releasing it in this country was a declaration of war!  It damaged the
>reputation of an already frowned-upon medium of entertainment and ruined a
>great opportunity to build up tolerance and fan-base by doing something
>worth while.  What the heck were they thinking? (That's a rhetorical
>question. :-))
>
>Michael

I think, perhaps, that "Dungeons and Dragons" might not have been the best 
way to put epic or heroic fantasy on the screen.  The Lord of the Rings 
trilogy of films might redeem it.  Now it someone could make a decent 
adaptation of Lord Dunsany or Lovecraft.



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Hello all,

I just have a quick question about the books that are currently "in the
works".
I noticed that with Honoured Enemy there are publishing problems and there
is no North American version of the novel.  My question is, should we expect
this kind of thing to come up with future novels or is this an isolated
incident?
Thank you for your time,

Rob Kolech



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References: <20010807184950.23374.qmail@web12703.mail.yahoo.com> <005901c11fa0$b4aab7c0$2f1e3acb@heechee> <002601c11fd7$632e4150$0100a8c0@dragon> <200108081516050616.015B7E44@mail-hub> <p04310100b7969ba7719f@[192.168.0.2]> <002a01c12013$ed2cfae0$7a42fc9e@oemcomputer> <3B71A03C.247698A7@yifan.net> <00d001c12078$0b7a18c0$a941fc9e@oemcomputer> <3B721A65.984B47DC@yifan.net> <4.2.2.20010809233233.00a3a450@pop.erols.com>
Subject: Re: Exactly what is a "fantasy movie"? (OT)
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 23:26:39 -0500
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Exactly what is a "fantasy movie"? (OT)
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 23:26:39 -0500
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

    The operative words being "might redeem".  Seriously, if we seem
to think of the vast majority of fantasy movies as garbage, what
makes you think that this will change with the LotR or any other
adaptation of any other author?  Perhaps we should go back to using
Muppets like the Dark Crystal.  It seemed to make for a better
movie.

-James

BTW: Can any of you Toronto area locals give me a rough average for
gasoline costs in your area?  I am driving up for a couple of days
next week and need to budget fuel costs for my car.

------------------------------------------------------
> I think, perhaps, that "Dungeons and Dragons" might not have been the best
> way to put epic or heroic fantasy on the screen.  The Lord of the Rings
> trilogy of films might redeem it.  Now it someone could make a decent
> adaptation of Lord Dunsany or Lovecraft.





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Subject: Re: HE: placed the order too
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Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2001 23:37:10 -0500
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: HE: placed the order too
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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"Joseph A. Benckert" wrote:
> 
> I also placed an order a few days ago.  Much to my dismay, Ray said the book
> has become #10 in sales and if it remains so until Monday, then Amazon may
> sell it for 50% off.

Hmm, I'm gonna be moving by the end of the month from Iowa to Colorado,
so I guess I better wait awhile.

> After a quick check, though, Amazon.co.uk has it listed at sales rank 149??

It's at #133 right now.

What I'm curious about though, is that I was checking the listings for
Honoured Enemy, and it lists two different upcoming paperback
publications, one this December and one for May of next year. Can
anybody explain the difference?

Also, it's nice to see that in the UK you're not stuck waiting a whole
year for a paperback version of a hardcover as well :)

Craig J. Ries



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From: John <john@crydee.com>
Subject: Re: HE: placed the order too
References: <F102SxvjPkQTGpaoG1V000048ae@hotmail.com>
 <001801c1213d$53961170$97d21a3f@TANK> <3B7364F6.9ACD577C@yifan.net>
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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: John <john@crydee.com>
Subject: Re: HE: placed the order too
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Craig J. Ries <cries@yifan.net> writes
>What I'm curious about though, is that I was checking the listings for
>Honoured Enemy, and it lists two different upcoming paperback
>publications, one this December and one for May of next year. Can
>anybody explain the difference?
>
One is a large format (Trade Paperback)
>Also, it's nice to see that in the UK you're not stuck waiting a whole
>year for a paperback version of a hardcover as well :)

Normally we are :)
-- 
John

john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.

Raymond E Feist Ring
http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 06:50:06 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: John <john@crydee.com>
Subject: Murder in LaMut listed at Amazon
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Murder in LaMut
Raymond E Feist and Joel Rosenberg
Our Price: £17.99

Not Yet Published: You may still order this title. We will send it to 
you when it is released by the publisher.
Category(ies): Science Fiction & Fantasy

Hardcover - 400 pages (5 May, 2002)
Voyager; ISBN: 0002247208

BTW Geoff Taylor has been commissioned for the cover art
-- 
John

john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.

Raymond E Feist Ring
http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm



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References: <003a01c12132$a41f9860$480ce4d8@redshift.com>
Subject: Re: prose
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 23:11:21 -0700
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Jason Martin" <res0b95g@verizon.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: prose
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 23:11:21 -0700
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That sort of depends... I thought Ray had more realistic characters in
the Serpent war saga, plus Legacy is sort of based off of the games,
so it needs to resemble somewhat like the games... Atleast that is how
I thought of that.  I thought Tear of the Gods was a good book. It had
tons of action in it and if it was anything like a movie, then I would
say i was like the Mummy Returns with how action packed it is.  I like
the Evil Temple in ToG though it made my back shiver in a few
spots...

Jason
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: C.T. Cusimano 
>To: FEISTFANS-L 
>Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2001 5:23 PM
>Subject: prose
>
>
>anyones thoughts on the change of the writing styles from magician to the legacy series?
>the descriptions are more vibrant in magician imho.

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To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: OT:  American Football
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 23:14:23 -0700
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From: "Jason Martin" <res0b95g@verizon.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: OT:  American Football
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 23:14:23 -0700
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Ok, if you follow it at all and are interested in a Fantasy football
game(Free and cool prizes) contact me OFF the List and I will give you a
address and a league.  All you do is pick who you think will win, and for
monday nights game pick the winner and guess the score.    Hey, Ray you
going to the SD Vs. SF preseason game?  I'm assuming the season ticket
holders get tickets for preseason too?

Now back to are regurlar programming..

Jason

"Mas Tequila!"
       Red Vodoo- Sammy Hagar



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From: LAR <lds627@home.com>
Subject: Re: Who made the Mad God mad?
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Ray:

I just wanted to say thank you for one of the most lucid explanations of 
true evil I have ever seen. Your last paragraph is almost word for word 
what my statements on Raciim and Prejudice (Yes, this extends to 
Homophobia, Anti-Semitism and any other reason you can come up with to 
exclude or hate an arbitrary group of people.) It has always been my belief 
to exclude somebody by anything  but personal experience with them is just 
a damn stupid waste of resources.

Now my question, which I MAY have answered myself, but do not wish to 
assume. Do you believe that arbitrary hatred and prejudice is by definition 
evil?

Larry
Who does not wish to get into a religious war over semantics <G>.




>Finally, the nature of evil.  When you strip away the natural horror 
>attached to something incredibly evil, you are left with two things.
>For example, the single biggest definable example of evil in modern 
>history would be the Nazis extermination of millions of people.  Step away 
>from the repulsion the thought of the death camps brings and examine it 
>with dispassion and you come away with the realization that evil is 
>wasteful.   Exterminating people because you find them offensive for some 
>reason or another, race, religion, whatever is stupid.   The Nazi's may 
>have killed a budding Motzart, another Einstein, someone who would have 
>found the cure for cancer, etc.   Hence, to be evil is crazy.  So by his 
>very nature, Nalar must be mad.
>
>Contrast this to self-serving behavior which has some logic attached.
>Guy du Bas-Tyra was the "evil" guy until Darkness at which point he gave a 
>reasonable account of his actions.  Not laudatory, obviously, but 
>understandable and in his personal context, justified.
>
>"True evil" is often banal in literature, and I reject it being used that 
>way.  If you look at the really effective pulp guys of the 30's, Merrit, 
>Lovecraft, etc. they portray evil as an outgrowth of something alien, 
>almost beyond understanding.  An ancient god or a dark sect that can't be 
>fully comprehended by modern man.  Because if you turn the harsh light of 
>logic on "evil" it rapidly becomes stupid and wasteful.
>Which is nuts.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>
>  ----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
>stupidity.



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Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 02:23:18 EDT
Subject: Re: Honored Enemy typos.
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

In a message dated 8/9/2001 6:38:42 PM Pacific Daylight Time, 
raymond@bittersea.com writes:


> > I have, however, spotted a typo or two, and I was wondering if you were 
> > interested in 'debugging' it, as you were when Shards first came out...
> >
> > Anyway, on page 111, it says 'Plane of Sar-Saragoth'.  Shouldn't it be 
> > 'Plain'?
> >
> > Cheers,
> > -- Seeya Starside.
> >
> > Shawn Chung
> >
> > ---------------------------------------
> > - I'd rather be ignorant than misinformed. -
> >
> >
> 
> Thanks.  I'll forward that to Harper for the paperback.
> 
> Best, R.E.F.
> 

Hi Ray,

I have a question regarding HE, maybe it's a typo, maybe it's not.

I've been avoiding HE posts, because I just started reading the book, so 
forgive me if this is old news.

First paragraph of the prologue, "The elderly general, still broad-shouldered 
and fit, ran a gloved hand back from his forehead, getting the damn hair out 
of his eyes."

Is it supposed to be "damn hair" or "damp hair"?

"Damn" just doesn't sound like you, Ray.   

Maybe Bill wrote that part.

Just curious,

Karl

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From: LAR <lds627@home.com>
Subject: Re: Honored Enemy typos.
In-Reply-To: <a05100300b798ea2148ca@[204.216.160.233]>
References: <p04310102b79a2e4c8b82@[210.24.85.24]>
 <200108091605.f79G50F02189@smtp2.san.rr.com>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2001 23:36:43 -0700
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: LAR <lds627@home.com>
Subject: Re: Honored Enemy typos.
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At 06:33 PM 8/9/01 -0700, you wrote:


>A typo? Ray doesn't do typos. If it says 'plane' then plane it is. It does 
>leave open the question of whether it's a Learjet or a Piper Cub.
>
>Alan
>--
>_______

Ummm, you haven't been on this list very long have you? <G>.

Larry
With a bow to Ray's binocular disorder.



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Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 02:37:25 EDT
Subject: UK edition observation(no spoilers)
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*** EOOH ***
From: KSimon67@aol.com
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 02:37:25 EDT
Subject: UK edition observation(no spoilers)
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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Hello,

I'm two chapters into HE and I finally noticed that when quotes are placed 
around the dialog lines, well, they use  'example'    instead of  "example".

I really think you Europeans are missing out, the double-quote thing is much 
easier on the eyes.  

I'm not complaining, in fact I'm very grateful that I able to read HE at all, 
considering the US publisher problem

"Karl"

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Subject: Re: Murder in LaMut listed at Amazon
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*** EOOH ***
Subject: Re: Murder in LaMut listed at Amazon
From: Falerin Ardendor <falerin@ultraisp.com>
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> > Murder in LaMut
> > Raymond E Feist and Joel Rosenberg
> > Our Price: 17.99





 This is being done with Joel Rosenberg?!?! Hmm this will definitely be
 one I need to read. Two authors I admire very much....

 



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From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 18:02:38 +1000 (GMT+1000)
From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
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NOT REALLY A SPOILER AS SUCH....

> As for ideas, we talked a lot, so I can say that the characters are
> pretty close to 50/50, though (for example) Dennis is more Bill's
> character than mine, while Bovai was more mine than Bill's, but that's
> quibbling than not.
> Best, R.E.F.

Hi Ray.


Just wondering if either you or Bill are first crusade buffs, going by the
name of the character "Tancred".....

I was a bit freaked out, because in a story I'm (trying) to write, I have
based one of the characters (name and all) on Tancred, the nephew (IIRC)
of Bohemond Guiscard, a First Crusade general. If I ever got my story
published, I hope no-one accuses me of stealing the name, when its from a
historical source.....


** paranoia **



Thanks
Darragh
-=-=
www.iamtheporkfireman.com
[Email]: s356179@student.uq.edu.au [ICQ]: 114283262



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From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Honored Enemy typos.
In-Reply-To: <p04310102b79a2e4c8b82@[210.24.85.24]>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 18:06:52 +1000 (GMT+1000)
From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Honored Enemy typos.
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> Ray,
> I'm just about to finish reading Honored Enemy, having just got it
> last night. :)  A great read, and very gripping.
> I have, however, spotted a typo or two, and I was wondering if you
> were interested in 'debugging' it, as you were when Shards first came
> out...
> Anyway, on page 111, it says 'Plane of Sar-Saragoth'.  Shouldn't it be 'Plain'?
> Cheers,
> --
> Seeya Starside.
> Shawn Chung

I **think** I found a logical error (correct me if I am wrong).

s
p
o
i
l
e
r


s
p
a
c
e


On page 95 of HE, Dennis and Asayga are discussing the war. Dennis
mentions the seige of Valinar in the first year of the war, and asks
Asayga if he was there. Asayga
says no, saying he was fighting with the shinzawai at siege of Crydee.

Howver, it was made clear at the beginning of the book, and also in
Magacian tha the Siege of Crydee happened in the fourth (or so) year of
the war.

Am I reading this correctly?

Thanks
Darragh
-=-=
www.iamtheporkfireman.com
[Email]: s356179@student.uq.edu.au [ICQ]: 114283262



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 09:12:19 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: Suggestions
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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At 01:59 AM 8/10/01 +0100, Aaron Howey wrote:
>I don't think REF would be able together a whole  
>story to fill a book. 

(all following is on an IMHO basis, and should 
be taken as such.)

Your statement above, Aaron (sorry) shows (I think) a 
fundamental misunderstanding of how writing works...or
at least fundamentally different from the way I understand
it.

The situation or /plot/ can usually be summed up in a 
single line of text:

     Valheru Destroy Llamaoid.
           (film at 11)

The /story/ can be several books long, involving many 
interesting characters, fabulous locations, a Cast of 
Thousands (plus an elephant and a moose or two, which
the Llamaoids keep as pets).

Throw in a bit of humor, a thread of true-love or two
and it's a book.  

rip
rip



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From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: HE: placed the order too
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Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 09:36:08 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: HE: placed the order too
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At 03:54 PM 8/9/01 -0700, Donna M. Jaggard wrote:
>Paddyjack wrote:
>> Well, I finally decided to get a look at amazon.uk, and I placed the
>> ...
>Dude. Are you me? I, too, just ordered HE from amazon.co.uk. 
>And, since I'm also in Canada, the price was the same. And I'm 
>just about finished reading A Storm of Swords (well, for the second 
>time, but still).
>
>Now stop that. The world cannot handle more than one me. 

No, no.  Donna, look at the subject...HE placed the order too.

*nods knowingly* Pronoun trouble.

He can't be you, because you're a girl.  (ick.  cooties.)

rip






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From: "Donal K. Fellows" <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
In-reply-to: <26.19893399.28a4db25@aol.com> (KSimon67@aol.com)
Subject: Re: UK edition observation(no spoilers)
References:  <26.19893399.28a4db25@aol.com>
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Donal K. Fellows" <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: UK edition observation(no spoilers)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 10:02:31 +0100
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KSimon67@aol.com
> I'm two chapters into HE and I finally noticed that when quotes are
> placed around the dialog lines, well, they use 'example' instead of
> "example".
> 
> I really think you Europeans are missing out, the double-quote thing
> is much easier on the eyes.

There doesn't seem to be any fixed rules on this matter.  From a quick
examination of a few old newspapers I have lying around my office (I
know I ought to tidy up some time...) and memories of books I own, I
find that some publishers prefer to do it one way, and some the other.

Which has got to be one of the most boring things I could say here;
let's liven it up by outrageously claiming that this is actually a
cunning ploy to save money (by using less ink) which allows the
publisher more leeway to meet Ray's contractural demands!!!!  If you
merkins would convert to the One True Way, you could have HE published
on your continent too!!!  <g>

Donal.
-- 
Donal K. Fellows, Department of Computer Science, University of Manchester, UK.
(work) fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk     Tel: +44-161-275-6137  (preferred email addr.)
(home) donal@ugglan.demon.co.uk  Tel: +44-1274-401017   Mobile: +44-7957-298955
http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~fellowsd/  (Don't quote my .sig; I've seen it before!)



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From: LAR <lds627@home.com>
Subject: Re: HE: placed the order too
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 02:11:45 -0700
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: LAR <lds627@home.com>
Subject: Re: HE: placed the order too
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

RIP, your  sick and demented. Probably why I like you so much. If you ever 
come to visit yoru company headquarters in Cali please do me the honor of 
allowing me to buy you a drink.

Larry


At 09:36 AM 8/10/01 +0100, you wrote:
>At 03:54 PM 8/9/01 -0700, Donna M. Jaggard wrote:
> >Paddyjack wrote:
> >> Well, I finally decided to get a look at amazon.uk, and I placed the
> >> ...
> >Dude. Are you me? I, too, just ordered HE from amazon.co.uk.
> >And, since I'm also in Canada, the price was the same. And I'm
> >just about finished reading A Storm of Swords (well, for the second
> >time, but still).
> >
> >Now stop that. The world cannot handle more than one me.
>
>No, no.  Donna, look at the subject...HE placed the order too.
>
>*nods knowingly* Pronoun trouble.
>
>He can't be you, because you're a girl.  (ick.  cooties.)
>
>rip



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From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: HE: placed the order too
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010810021050.01e28720@mail>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20010810093344.00ed18a0@mail.swindon.wrsec.fr>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 10:58:02 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: HE: placed the order too
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

At 02:11 AM 8/10/01 -0700, LAR wrote:
>RIP, your  sick and demented. Probably why I like you so much. If you ever come to visit yoru company headquarters in Cali please do me the honor of allowing me to buy you a drink.
>
>Larry

I grew up near there, so the chances are pretty good I'll be
in the area even if not visiting the company...and next year
is my HS 20 year reunion (...waits until the hoots and catcalls
die down...yeah yeah, thanks, can I continue now?...) so I
and the family will be there sometime between May and July
probably...

And I do believe I'll let you buy me that drink.  Play golf?

rip



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From: LAR <lds627@home.com>
Subject: Re: HE: placed the order too
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 04:49:21 -0700
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: LAR <lds627@home.com>
Subject: Re: HE: placed the order too
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

At 10:58 AM 8/10/01 +0100, you wrote:
>At 02:11 AM 8/10/01 -0700, LAR wrote:
> >RIP, your  sick and demented. Probably why I like you so much. If you 
> ever come to visit yoru company headquarters in Cali please do me the 
> honor of allowing me to buy you a drink.
> >
> >Larry
>
>I grew up near there, so the chances are pretty good I'll be
>in the area even if not visiting the company...and next year
>is my HS 20 year reunion (...waits until the hoots and catcalls
>die down...yeah yeah, thanks, can I continue now?...) so I
>and the family will be there sometime between May and July
>probably...
>
>And I do believe I'll let you buy me that drink.  Play golf?
>
>rip

Well, I don't play golf YET, but if it is going to be nearly a year, I can 
learn <G>. I do play a barely passable game of pool though, just in case. 
Winner buys dinner?

Larry



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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: HE: placed the order too
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010810044744.01e29450@mail>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20010810105442.00edf460@mail.swindon.wrsec.fr>
 <5.1.0.14.0.20010810021050.01e28720@mail>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20010810093344.00ed18a0@mail.swindon.wrsec.fr>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 13:37:30 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: HE: placed the order too
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

At 04:49 AM 8/10/01 -0700, LAR wrote:
>>And I do believe I'll let you buy me that drink.  Play golf?

>Well, I don't play golf YET, but if it is going to be nearly a year, I can learn <G>. I do play a barely passable game of pool though, just in case. Winner buys dinner?
>
>Larry

Sure.  We could also invite Ray.  Wouldn't be fair not to.
It's his list.

Wait--Winner of the GOLF match or the POOL match?  

rip



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References: <5.1.0.14.2.20010810105442.00edf460@mail.swindon.wrsec.fr><5.1.0.14.0.20010810021050.01e28720@mail><5.1.0.14.2.20010810093344.00ed18a0@mail.swindon.wrsec.fr><3B72B21F.20692.177824DA@localhost><PFHOOAICKINADAAA@mailcity.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20010810132851.00eb6b60@mail.swindon.wrsec.fr>
Subject: Re: HE: placed the order too
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Barker" <heechee@softhome.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: HE: placed the order too
Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 22:45:05 +1000
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----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2001 10:37 PM
Subject: Re: HE: placed the order too



> Wait--Winner of the GOLF match or the POOL match?

FInd an ingenious way to combine them: perhaps playing golf but using pool
balls instead? <BG>

Cheers,
James



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From: "Natalie Henderson" <natz101@hotmail.com>
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Subject: HE at Amazon
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 13:09:20 +0000
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From: "Natalie Henderson" <natz101@hotmail.com>
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Subject: HE at Amazon
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 13:09:20 +0000
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Hi everyone!

Just thought you'd all like to know that Honoured Enemy is now selling at 
50% off through amazon.co.uk.

For all those that held out - nows the time to buy it!! :)

Natalie

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp



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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: LAR <lds627@home.com>
Subject: Re: HE: placed the order too
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20010810132851.00eb6b60@mail.swindon.wrsec.fr>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20010810044744.01e29450@mail>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20010810105442.00edf460@mail.swindon.wrsec.fr>
 <5.1.0.14.0.20010810021050.01e28720@mail>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 06:29:21 -0700
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: LAR <lds627@home.com>
Subject: Re: HE: placed the order too
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

At 01:37 PM 8/10/01 +0100, you wrote:
>At 04:49 AM 8/10/01 -0700, LAR wrote:
>
>Sure.  We could also invite Ray.  Wouldn't be fair not to.
>It's his list.

Seems fair to me, and I believe a visit from you would be much more of an 
incentive for him to travel up from San Diego than a chance to play pool 
with me <G>/



>Wait--Winner of the GOLF match or the POOL match?
>
>rip

POOL man, at least  The last time I tried to play Golf the pro told me my 
handicap was my game.

Larry
Who will have to go diving to find his gold clubs



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From: "Sonia Tabe" <sonia@nt-tech.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Chaos god
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 22:57:20 +0930
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*** EOOH ***
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From: "Sonia Tabe" <sonia@nt-tech.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Chaos god
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 22:57:20 +0930
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Okay, this is a subject that has been bugging me a little. That subject is
the god, Chaos. Okay, now this may be akin to blasphemy, but I know Chaos is
mentioned in the books by Mr. Feist, and yet I can't remember how. I need to
brush up. In the Dragonlance books, Chaos is refered to as "the father of
all and of nothing".
Now, the reason why the subject bugs me, is every single author refering to
'the same' god? I mean, is he somehow a deity that spans across all books?
Is he a god from our own history? Ack. This isn't coming across too clear, I
know. I know that there is some kind of link, and would someone who can
actually understand my ramblings be able to clear this up for me? Thank you.



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From: Cliff Nadler <cnadler@colltech.com>
To: <feistfans-l@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Bye, bye Dynamix
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 08:52:37 -0500 (CDT)
From: Cliff Nadler <cnadler@colltech.com>
To: <feistfans-l@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Bye, bye Dynamix
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http://www.planettribes.com/

Looks like another gaming company goes south.

-- 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Cliff Nadler		Collective Technologies, Inc.
cnadler@colltech.com	(512)-263-5500
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
To win, you must treat a pressure situation as an opportunity to succeed,
not an opportunity to fail			Gardner Dickinson



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From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: HE: placed the order too
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20010810062721.01e295d0@mail>
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Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 14:58:25 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: HE: placed the order too
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At 06:29 AM 8/10/01 -0700, LAR wrote:
>At 01:37 PM 8/10/01 +0100, I wrote:
>>Sure.  We could also invite Ray.  Wouldn't be fair not to.
>>It's his list.
>
>Seems fair to me, and I believe a visit from you would be 
>much more of an incentive for him to travel up from San Diego 
>than a chance to play pool with me <G>/

You overstate your case ;->.  Niner's are playing at SD
this weekend, right?  Go Niners... 

>>Wait--Winner of the GOLF match or the POOL match?
>
>POOL man, at least  The last time I tried to play Golf the 
>pro told me my handicap was my game.

No doubt I'll announce it to the list a couple months before
I go, when next I'm going to be in the states.  Maybe we'll
make it an all-comers thing... anyone who shows gets a chance
at buying dinner ;->

rip



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Subject: Re: Chaos god
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Barker" <heechee@softhome.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Chaos god
Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 00:38:31 +1000
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----- Original Message -----
From: Sonia Tabe <sonia@nt-tech.com.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2001 11:27 PM
Subject: Chaos god


> Okay, this is a subject that has been bugging me a little. That subject is
> the god, Chaos. Okay, now this may be akin to blasphemy, but I know Chaos is
> mentioned in the books by Mr. Feist, and yet I can't remember how. I need to
> brush up. In the Dragonlance books, Chaos is refered to as "the father of
> all and of nothing".
> Now, the reason why the subject bugs me, is every single author refering to
> 'the same' god? I mean, is he somehow a deity that spans across all books?
> Is he a god from our own history? Ack. This isn't coming across too clear, I
> know. I know that there is some kind of link, and would someone who can
> actually understand my ramblings be able to clear this up for me? Thank you.

Umm, I'm not trying to be offensive, but do you know that "chaos" is
actually a common word in the English language, basically meaning a lack of
order? Dictionary.com's definition of it follows (as I have no better place
to turn to at the moment):

cha·os - n.
1. A condition or place of great disorder or confusion.
2. A disorderly mass; a jumble: The desk was a chaos of papers and unopened
letters.
3. often Chaos The disordered state of unformed matter and infinite space
supposed in some cosmogonic views to have existed before the ordered
universe.
Mathematics. A dynamical system that has a sensitive dependence on its
initial conditions.
Obsolete. An abyss; a chasm.

Some (I am tempted to say uninspired *grin*) authors do use "Chaos" as the
name of a god or such (hence the capitalisation) but the word's primary
meanings are those above.

Cheers,
James



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Subject: Re: Chaos god
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From: "James Barker" <heechee@softhome.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Chaos god
Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 01:02:33 +1000
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----- Original Message -----
From: Sonia Tabe <sonia@nt-tech.com.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2001 12:54 AM
Subject: Re: Chaos god


> Okay, thanks for that clarification. And yes, I did know what chaos
> literally meant. And no, no offence taken. Thank you for clearing the air.
> It must be something like at the Naming Ceremony Of The Gods: "Oh George,
> let's name him Chaos!" Thus chaos has reigned popular forever more.
>

"But darling, I was thinking something less traditional, maybe Nalar?"

Cheers,
James



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Subject: Re: Chaos god
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*** EOOH ***
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: "Sonia Tabe" <sonia@nt-tech.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Chaos god
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 00:24:38 +0930
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Okay, thanks for that clarification. And yes, I did know what chaos
literally meant. And no, no offence taken. Thank you for clearing the air.
It must be something like at the Naming Ceremony Of The Gods: "Oh George,
let's name him Chaos!" Thus chaos has reigned popular forever more.


----- Original Message -----
From: James Barker <heechee@softhome.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2001 12:08 AM
Subject: Re: Chaos god



> Umm, I'm not trying to be offensive, but do you know that "chaos" is
> actually a common word in the English language, basically meaning a lack of
> order? Dictionary.com's definition of it follows (as I have no better place
> to turn to at the moment):
>
> cha·os - n.
> 1. A condition or place of great disorder or confusion.
> 2. A disorderly mass; a jumble: The desk was a chaos of papers and unopened
> letters.
> 3. often Chaos The disordered state of unformed matter and infinite space
> supposed in some cosmogonic views to have existed before the ordered
> universe.
> Mathematics. A dynamical system that has a sensitive dependence on its
> initial conditions.
> Obsolete. An abyss; a chasm.
>
> Some (I am tempted to say uninspired *grin*) authors do use "Chaos" as the
> name of a god or such (hence the capitalisation) but the word's primary
> meanings are those above.
>
> Cheers,
> James
>



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To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
References: <00c901c121a0$32f53820$4785fea9@Sonia> <001701c1094e$00b44dc0$93911dcb@heechee> <00ec01c121ac$61a0bc60$4785fea9@Sonia> <000901c10951$5b754ea0$93911dcb@heechee>
Subject: Re: Chaos god
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 00:43:57 +0930
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*** EOOH ***
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: "Sonia Tabe" <sonia@nt-tech.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Chaos god
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 00:43:57 +0930
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Hehe. Good one! =D


----- Original Message -----
From: James Barker <heechee@softhome.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2001 12:32 AM
Subject: Re: Chaos god


>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Sonia Tabe <sonia@nt-tech.com.au>
> To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2001 12:54 AM
> Subject: Re: Chaos god
>
>
> > Okay, thanks for that clarification. And yes, I did know what chaos
> > literally meant. And no, no offence taken. Thank you for clearing the air.
> > It must be something like at the Naming Ceremony Of The Gods: "Oh George,
> > let's name him Chaos!" Thus chaos has reigned popular forever more.
> >
>
> "But darling, I was thinking something less traditional, maybe Nalar?"
>
> Cheers,
> James
>



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 08:21:25 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
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On Thursday, August 9, 2001, at 09:17 PM, Rob Kolech wrote:

> Hello all,
>
> I just have a quick question about the books that are currently "in the
> works".
> I noticed that with Honoured Enemy there are publishing problems and 
> there
> is no North American version of the novel.  My question is, should we 
> expect
> this kind of thing to come up with future novels or is this an isolated
> incident?
> Thank you for your time,
>
> Rob Kolech
>
>

Currently, all three books in the Legends of the Riftwar series are 
without an American publisher.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 08:22:57 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Thursday, August 9, 2001, at 11:14 PM, Jason Martin wrote:

> Ok, if you follow it at all and are interested in a Fantasy football
> game(Free and cool prizes) contact me OFF the List and I will give you a
> address and a league.  All you do is pick who you think will win, and 
> for
> monday nights game pick the winner and guess the score.    Hey, Ray you
> going to the SD Vs. SF preseason game?  I'm assuming the season ticket
> holders get tickets for preseason too?
>
> Now back to are regurlar programming..
>
> Jason
>
> "Mas Tequila!"
>        Red Vodoo- Sammy Hagar
>
>

Yes, I have pre-season games inflicted upon me with the season tickets.

I'm taking the kids and The Goddess to the game tomorrow.  (She's a 
Niners fan, but I adore her anyway).

Best, R.E.F.


----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 08:30:23 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Who made the Mad God mad?
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On Thursday, August 9, 2001, at 11:16 PM, LAR wrote:

> Ray:
>
> I just wanted to say thank you for one of the most lucid explanations 
> of true evil I have ever seen. Your last paragraph is almost word for 
> word what my statements on Raciim and Prejudice (Yes, this extends to 
> Homophobia, Anti-Semitism and any other reason you can come up with to 
> exclude or hate an arbitrary group of people.) It has always been my 
> belief to exclude somebody by anything  but personal experience with 
> them is just a damn stupid waste of resources.
>
> Now my question, which I MAY have answered myself, but do not wish to 
> assume. Do you believe that arbitrary hatred and prejudice is by 
> definition evil?

Hate is never arbitrary.  Hate comes from two things, frustration and 
anger combined, or from ignorance.

We are genetically hardwired or have had thousands of years of social 
evolution (take your pick) to think of everything as "us" vs. "them."   
This is very useful evolutionarilly in keeping your tribe alive.  And if 
your tribe is the strongest, it survives.  So what we don't know is 
"alien" "frightening," "threatening," etc.

Frustration and anger are often the fuel of hate.  Witness ethnic wars 
in Eastern Europe that started centuries ago.  One group is on top, and 
the other group is oppressed.  Thinks may not have been peachy under 
Tito in Yugoslavia, but people weren't blowing up cities while the 
Communists ruled everyone.  But Kossavo teaches us that a group that is 
held down for decades will rise up if given the chance.

That's why a guy like Nelson Mandella is a saint, in my book.  The fact 
the streets of South Africa weren't running with Afrikanner blood is a 
testimony to rational thinking over hate.

Evil in the real world comes from diminishing another person or groups 
human identity.  Murder is the most heinous crime on the books because 
you steal everything from a person by killing them, you steal their 
hopes, dreams, future, loved ones, and  joy from them.  It's also a 
crime against society, because it steals that person's potential from 
all of us.  You can't do that to someone unless you assign less than 
human status to them in your mind.

Best, R.E.F.

  ----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.
>
>

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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 08:31:03 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Honored Enemy typos.
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On Thursday, August 9, 2001, at 11:23 PM, KSimon67@aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 8/9/2001 6:38:42 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
> raymond@bittersea.com writes:
>
>
> > I have, however, spotted a typo or two, and I was wondering if you 
> were
> > interested in 'debugging' it, as you were when Shards first came 
> out...
> >
> > Anyway, on page 111, it says 'Plane of Sar-Saragoth'.  Shouldn't it be
> > 'Plain'?
> >
> > Cheers,
> > -- Seeya Starside.
> >
> > Shawn Chung
> >
> > ---------------------------------------
> > - I'd rather be ignorant than misinformed. -
> >
> >
>
> Thanks.  I'll forward that to Harper for the paperback.
>
> Best, R.E.F.
>
>
>
> Hi Ray,
>
> I have a question regarding HE, maybe it's a typo, maybe it's not.
>
> I've been avoiding HE posts, because I just started reading the book, so
> forgive me if this is old news.
>
> First paragraph of the prologue, "The elderly general, still 
> broad-shouldered
> and fit, ran a gloved hand back from his forehead, getting the damn 
> hair out
> of his eyes."
>
> Is it supposed to be "damn hair" or "damp hair"?
>
> "Damn" just doesn't sound like you, Ray.   
>
> Maybe Bill wrote that part.
>
> Just curious,
>
> Karl

It should be damp. <g>

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.

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*** EOOH ***
From: "Donal K. Fellows" <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT:  American Football
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 16:32:09 +0100
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Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
> I'm taking the kids and The Goddess to the game tomorrow.  (She's a 
> Niners fan, but I adore her anyway).

I suppose it must be difficult to be perfect in every way.  <g>

Donal.
-- 
Donal K. Fellows, Department of Computer Science, University of Manchester, UK.
(work) fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk     Tel: +44-161-275-6137  (preferred email addr.)
(home) donal@ugglan.demon.co.uk  Tel: +44-1274-401017   Mobile: +44-7957-298955
http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~fellowsd/  (Don't quote my .sig; I've seen it before!)



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References: <20010807184950.23374.qmail@web12703.mail.yahoo.com> <005901c11fa0$b4aab7c0$2f1e3acb@heechee> <002601c11fd7$632e4150$0100a8c0@dragon> <200108081516050616.015B7E44@mail-hub> <p04310100b7969ba7719f@[192.168.0.2]> <002a01c12013$ed2cfae0$7a42fc9e@oemcomputer> <3B71A03C.247698A7@yifan.net> <00d001c12078$0b7a18c0$a941fc9e@oemcomputer> <3B721A65.984B47DC@yifan.net> <4.2.2.20010809233233.00a3a450@pop.erols.com>
Subject: Re: Exactly what is a "fantasy movie"?
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 08:40:53 -0700
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From: "Michael Renn" <troubador7@hotmail.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Exactly what is a "fantasy movie"?
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 08:40:53 -0700
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I couldn't agree more.

Michael

----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Arzooman" <soundcage@erols.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2001 8:46 PM
Subject: Re: Exactly what is a "fantasy movie"?


> At 08:15 AM 8/9/01 -0700, you wrote:
> >Hell, releasing it in this country was a declaration of war!  It damaged the
> >reputation of an already frowned-upon medium of entertainment and ruined a
> >great opportunity to build up tolerance and fan-base by doing something
> >worth while.  What the heck were they thinking? (That's a rhetorical
> >question. :-))
> >
> >Michael
>
> I think, perhaps, that "Dungeons and Dragons" might not have been the best
> way to put epic or heroic fantasy on the screen.  The Lord of the Rings
> trilogy of films might redeem it.  Now it someone could make a decent
> adaptation of Lord Dunsany or Lovecraft.
>
>



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 08:40:54 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Suggestions
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On Friday, August 10, 2001, at 01:12 AM, Richard Williamson wrote:

> At 01:59 AM 8/10/01 +0100, Aaron Howey wrote:
>> I don't think REF would be able together a whole
>> story to fill a book.
>
> (all following is on an IMHO basis, and should
> be taken as such.)
>
> Your statement above, Aaron (sorry) shows (I think) a
> fundamental misunderstanding of how writing works...or
> at least fundamentally different from the way I understand
> it.
>
> The situation or /plot/ can usually be summed up in a
> single line of text:
>
>      Valheru Destroy Llamaoid.
>            (film at 11)
>
> The /story/ can be several books long, involving many
> interesting characters, fabulous locations, a Cast of
> Thousands (plus an elephant and a moose or two, which
> the Llamaoids keep as pets).
>
> Throw in a bit of humor, a thread of true-love or two
> and it's a book.
>
> rip

Plot:  King dies.  Queen dies.

Story: King dies.  Queen dies of a broken heart.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 08:37:19 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Thursday, August 9, 2001, at 11:37 PM, KSimon67@aol.com wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I'm two chapters into HE and I finally noticed that when quotes are 
> placed
> around the dialog lines, well, they use  'example'    instead of 
>  "example".
>
> I really think you Europeans are missing out, the double-quote thing is 
> much
> easier on the eyes.  
>
> I'm not complaining, in fact I'm very grateful that I able to read HE 
> at all,
> considering the US publisher problem
>
> "Karl"
>

The British have used the double/single quote in opposition to the US 
since the beginning.  I have no idea why the two nations split along 
those lines, but as long as I can remember it's been this way.

The US system is slightly superior for one reason alone.  When doing 
dialogue which contains contractions, the US system makes it a 
littleeasier to understand where the dialogue stops.

Example:

British:  James said, 'I don't know if I heard right, but I thought I'd 
hear Mary say, "We're going to mom's."'

US: James said, "I don't know if I heard right, but I thought I'd hear 
Mary say, 'We're going to mom's.'"

That first ' in don't can be a bit of speed bump, but it's only a small 
advantage, which is why I said "slightly" above.

Best, R.E.F.

----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.

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Subject: Re: Who made the Mad God mad?
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Subject: Re: Who made the Mad God mad?
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Coming from Northern Ireland I can understand that statement quite well and
can say that it was 100% on the ball.

Thanks & Kind Regards

Gary J Stenhouse

"He who knows it all is either very wise
or very foolish, either way he is disappointed
Because he has stolen away the heart of wonder"

"Tad Williams"




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Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 08:42:21 -0700
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On Friday, August 10, 2001, at 05:37 AM, Richard Williamson wrote:

> At 04:49 AM 8/10/01 -0700, LAR wrote:
>>> And I do believe I'll let you buy me that drink.  Play golf?
>
>> Well, I don't play golf YET, but if it is going to be nearly a year, I 
>> can learn <G>. I do play a barely passable game of pool though, just 
>> in case. Winner buys dinner?
>>
>> Larry
>
> Sure.  We could also invite Ray.  Wouldn't be fair not to.
> It's his list.
>
> Wait--Winner of the GOLF match or the POOL match?
>
> rip
>
>

Where in California?

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 08:39:55 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
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On Friday, August 10, 2001, at 01:06 AM, Darragh Murray wrote:

>> Ray,
>> I'm just about to finish reading Honored Enemy, having just got it
>> last night. :)  A great read, and very gripping.
>> I have, however, spotted a typo or two, and I was wondering if you
>> were interested in 'debugging' it, as you were when Shards first came
>> out...
>> Anyway, on page 111, it says 'Plane of Sar-Saragoth'.  Shouldn't it be 
>> 'Plain'?
>> Cheers,
>> --
>> Seeya Starside.
>> Shawn Chung
>
> I **think** I found a logical error (correct me if I am wrong).
>
> s
> p
> o
> i
> l
> e
> r
>
>
> s
> p
> a
> c
> e
>
>
> On page 95 of HE, Dennis and Asayga are discussing the war. Dennis
> mentions the seige of Valinar in the first year of the war, and asks
> Asayga if he was there. Asayga
> says no, saying he was fighting with the shinzawai at siege of Crydee.
>
> Howver, it was made clear at the beginning of the book, and also in
> Magacian tha the Siege of Crydee happened in the fourth (or so) year of
> the war.
>
> Am I reading this correctly?
>
> Thanks
> Darragh
> -=-=
> www.iamtheporkfireman.com
> [Email]: s356179@student.uq.edu.au [ICQ]: 114283262
>
>

That's not so much a logic error as it's sloppy writing on my part.  I 
meant to say that he was in the West, serving with Kasumi, until the 
Shinzawai were pulled out after the siege of Crydee.  Consider it sort 
of a short-hand reference.

Best, R.E.F.

----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 08:38:30 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: The HE Experience
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On Friday, August 10, 2001, at 01:02 AM, Darragh Murray wrote:

> NOT REALLY A SPOILER AS SUCH....
>
>> As for ideas, we talked a lot, so I can say that the characters are
>> pretty close to 50/50, though (for example) Dennis is more Bill's
>> character than mine, while Bovai was more mine than Bill's, but that's
>> quibbling than not.
>> Best, R.E.F.
>
> Hi Ray.
>
>
> Just wondering if either you or Bill are first crusade buffs, going by 
> the
> name of the character "Tancred".....
>
> I was a bit freaked out, because in a story I'm (trying) to write, I 
> have
> based one of the characters (name and all) on Tancred, the nephew (IIRC)
> of Bohemond Guiscard, a First Crusade general. If I ever got my story
> published, I hope no-one accuses me of stealing the name, when its 
> from a
> historical source.....


That was me.  I just pulled the name out of a mental hat and forgot 
about the historical guy until we were done with the book.

Best, R.E.F.

----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 08:47:25 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Bye, bye Dynamix
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On Friday, August 10, 2001, at 06:52 AM, Cliff Nadler wrote:

> http://www.planettribes.com/
>
> Looks like another gaming company goes south.
>
> --
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Cliff Nadler		Collective Technologies, Inc.
> cnadler@colltech.com	(512)-263-5500
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> To win, you must treat a pressure situation as an opportunity to 
> succeed,
> not an opportunity to fail			Gardner Dickinson
>
>


Man, Sierra has just been put through the ringers since the founders 
sold it off to Cendant, who sold it to Havas who became Vivendi who are 
merging with Universal.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 08:49:07 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT:  American Football
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On Friday, August 10, 2001, at 08:32 AM, Donal K. Fellows wrote:

> Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
>> I'm taking the kids and The Goddess to the game tomorrow.  (She's a
>> Niners fan, but I adore her anyway).
>
> I suppose it must be difficult to be perfect in every way.  <g>
>

I told her last night I'd turn her into a Chargers fan.  Her response, 
"Fat chance."

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Subject: Re: Suggestions
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*** EOOH ***
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> Plot:  King dies.  Queen dies.
>
> Story: King dies.  Queen dies of a broken heart.
>
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
>
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
> stupidity.
>

Now I've read that somewhere before! It was in the book "Novel Writing" by
Diane Doubtfire. I went and got the book and it's in my lap right now. It is
used in an extract in the book from a book called "Aspects of the Novel" by
E. M. Forster. If anyone wants to read it exactly as in the book (someone
might) keep reading. If you don't give a fig, stop reading right now =)

"Let us define plot. We have defined a story as a narrative of events
arranged in their time-sequence. A plot is also a narrative of events, the
emphasis falling on causality. 'The king died and then the queen died,' is a
story. 'The king died, and then the queen died of grief,' is a plot. The
time-sequence is preserved, but the sense of causality overshadows it. Or
again: 'The queen died, no one know why, until it was discovered that it was
through grief at the death of the king.' This is a plot with a mystery in
it, a form capable of high development... a plot demands intelligence and
memory also."



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Subject: Re: HE: placed the order too
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 17:00:23 +0100
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At 08:42 AM 8/10/01 -0700, Raymond Feist wrote:
>Where in California?

Starting from the top and working our way down the list,
it would be 

Bay Area, Lake Alpine (Alpine County), Atascadero, Anaheim Hills.

But not until next summer probably.

rip





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Subject: RE: placed the order too
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 09:16:45 -0700
Thread-Topic: HE: placed the order too
Thread-Index: AcEhtgkDTL2JmFe7SDSUPNYQSgHQyAAAZIoQ
From: "Russell Teeter" <rteeter@sitelite.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
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Well when you get down to Anaheim Hills, you will be so sick of traffic
especially along the 91 freeway, unless you decide to pay the outrageous
price of $2.75+ to take the tollroad.

-----Original Message-----
>From: Richard Williamson [mailto:richard.williamson@windriver.com]
>Sent: Friday, August 10, 2001 9:00 AM
>To: FEISTFANS-L
>Subject: Re: placed the order too
>
>
>At 08:42 AM 8/10/01 -0700, Raymond Feist wrote:
>>Where in California?
>
>Starting from the top and working our way down the list,
>it would be
>
>Bay Area, Lake Alpine (Alpine County), Atascadero, Anaheim Hills.
>
>But not until next summer probably.
>
>rip

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Subject: Re: OT:  American Football
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 09:20:18 -0700
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From: "Jason Martin" <res0b95g@verizon.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT:  American Football
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 09:20:18 -0700
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Raymond Feist" <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2001 8:22 AM
Subject: Re: OT: American Football


>
> On Thursday, August 9, 2001, at 11:14 PM, Jason Martin wrote:
>
> > Ok, if you follow it at all and are interested in a Fantasy football
> > game(Free and cool prizes) contact me OFF the List and I will give you a
> > address and a league.  All you do is pick who you think will win, and
> > for
> > monday nights game pick the winner and guess the score.    Hey, Ray you
> > going to the SD Vs. SF preseason game?  I'm assuming the season ticket
> > holders get tickets for preseason too?
> >
> > Now back to are regurlar programming..
> >
> > Jason
> >
> > "Mas Tequila!"
> >        Red Vodoo- Sammy Hagar
> >
> >
>
> Yes, I have pre-season games inflicted upon me with the season tickets.
>
> I'm taking the kids and The Goddess to the game tomorrow.  (She's a
> Niners fan, but I adore her anyway).
>
> Best, R.E.F.
>
>
> ----
>
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
> stupidity.
>
Ray, Marry her!  Not only does she sound cute with your description of "The
Goddess", but she is incredibly smart since she likes the niners.  Though I
hope bragging rights are not an issue for the games, since its only a
preaseaon game...  Have fun at the game.  I'm looking forward to next year
witt the realignment since the Seattle Seahawks will be joining the NFC
West, I will beable to go to Seattle to watche the 49ers play.  Though
before I die, I need to go to SF and wach them play at home.  One of the
things I want to to is for all 3 major sports (football, basketball, and
baseball) I want to see one home game of each of my teams.  Got the Phoenix
Suns done, just need to do the 49ers and the Cubbies.

Jason



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From: LAR <lds627@home.com>
Subject: Re: HE: placed the order too
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Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 09:43:38 -0700
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From: LAR <lds627@home.com>
Subject: Re: HE: placed the order too
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I'm up in th SF bay area. Pleasnaton to be precise (East Bay). But if it 
means you'll be joining us,. I'll travel <G>.

Larry


At 08:42 AM 8/10/01 -0700, you wrote:

>On Friday, August 10, 2001, at 05:37 AM, Richard Williamson wrote:
>
>>At 04:49 AM 8/10/01 -0700, LAR wrote:
>>>>And I do believe I'll let you buy me that drink.  Play golf?
>>
>>>Well, I don't play golf YET, but if it is going to be nearly a year, I 
>>>can learn <G>. I do play a barely passable game of pool though, just in 
>>>case. Winner buys dinner?
>>>
>>>Larry
>>
>>Sure.  We could also invite Ray.  Wouldn't be fair not to.
>>It's his list.
>>
>>Wait--Winner of the GOLF match or the POOL match?
>>
>>rip
>>
>
>Where in California?
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
>stupidity.



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Wow, Ray, that is so cool!  That has been my take on prejudice and 
generalization for the longest time and I have never found anyone who agreed 
with me... well, at least not before I explained my position to them.  You 
really spelled it out well.  I would, however, like to add that there is one 
other way to be able to slay another human, although by standard societal 
standards, you have to be insane: if you believe that humanity is irrelevant 
and the only driving force is what you want/need (this by definition 
psychologically and criminologically speaking is a sociopath and with a few 
more finite details can also describe the make-up of a psychopath.)  If you 
don't care whether a person is human or not, and killing is "okay" in your 
book, then you don't have to dehumanize someone.  To me, that is what evil 
is:  thinking that your evil actions are not only okay, but in a twisted 
way, right and good.  It's kind of scary.

Michael

Murder is the most heinous crime on the books
>because
>you steal everything from a person by killing them, you steal their
>hopes, dreams, future, loved ones, and  joy from them.  It's also a
>crime against society, because it steals that person's potential from
>all of us.  You can't do that to someone unless you assign less than
>human status to them in your mind.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>
>  ----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
>stupidity.
>>
>>


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp



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*** EOOH ***
From: "William Marnoch" <william@wmarnoch.freeserve.co.uk>
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On 9 Aug 01, at 23:37, Craig J. Ries wrote:

> "Joseph A. Benckert" wrote:
> > 
> > I also placed an order a few days ago.  Much to my dismay, Ray said the
> > book has become #10 in sales and if it remains so until Monday, then
> > Amazon may sell it for 50% off.
> 
> Hmm, I'm gonna be moving by the end of the month from Iowa to Colorado, so
> I guess I better wait awhile.

It is currently being offered there at 50% off (i.e. £9 instead of 
£18)... I wish I'd thought of that before buying it, although since I 
got the last 2 Feist hardbacks for £5 each I shouldn't complain too 
much ;)
 
> > After a quick check, though, Amazon.co.uk has it listed at sales rank
> > 149??
> 
> It's at #133 right now.

And now at #69
 
> What I'm curious about though, is that I was checking the listings for
> Honoured Enemy, and it lists two different upcoming paperback
> publications, one this December and one for May of next year. Can anybody
> explain the difference?

The first will be a trade paperback (I think that's the right term), 
which is larger than normal paperback, about hardback size. The 
second paperback release will be the normal mass-market 
paperback.
 
> Also, it's nice to see that in the UK you're not stuck waiting a whole
> year for a paperback version of a hardcover as well :)
> 
> Craig J. Ries


-- 
William Marnoch
william@wmarnoch.freeserve.co.uk
ICQ:77848483



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Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 13:25:43 -0500
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: HE: placed the order too
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William Marnoch wrote:
> 
> And now at #69

Well, it currently stands at #24, and it's only early afternoon of the
10th here in the central US.

But since it went to 50% off, I went ahead and bought myself a copy.
Can't wait to read it :)

Craig J. Ries



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 11:30:06 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: HE: placed the order too
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On Friday, August 10, 2001, at 09:00 AM, Richard Williamson wrote:

> At 08:42 AM 8/10/01 -0700, Raymond Feist wrote:
>> Where in California?
>
> Starting from the top and working our way down the list,
> it would be
>
> Bay Area, Lake Alpine (Alpine County), Atascadero, Anaheim Hills.
>
> But not until next summer probably.
>
> rip
>
>
>
>

If you get into Orange County, let me know.

Best, R.E.F.

----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 11:29:37 -0700
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 11:29:37 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Suggestions
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On Friday, August 10, 2001, at 08:57 AM, Sonia Tabe wrote:

>
>> Plot:  King dies.  Queen dies.
>>
>> Story: King dies.  Queen dies of a broken heart.
>>
>> Best, R.E.F.
>> ----
>>
>> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
>> stupidity.
>>
>
> Now I've read that somewhere before! It was in the book "Novel Writing" 
> by
> Diane Doubtfire. I went and got the book and it's in my lap right now. 
> It is
> used in an extract in the book from a book called "Aspects of the 
> Novel" by
> E. M. Forster. If anyone wants to read it exactly as in the book 
> (someone
> might) keep reading. If you don't give a fig, stop reading right now =)
>
> "Let us define plot. We have defined a story as a narrative of events
> arranged in their time-sequence. A plot is also a narrative of events, 
> the
> emphasis falling on causality. 'The king died and then the queen died,' 
> is a
> story. 'The king died, and then the queen died of grief,' is a plot. The
> time-sequence is preserved, but the sense of causality overshadows it. 
> Or
> again: 'The queen died, no one know why, until it was discovered that 
> it was
> through grief at the death of the king.' This is a plot with a mystery 
> in
> it, a form capable of high development... a plot demands intelligence 
> and
> memory also."
>
>

I think the example and/or concept predates the book, but I don't know.  
When was it published?

I do know that I'd use the terms in exactly the opposite fashion she's 
employing them.

Story: an account or report regarding the facts of an event or group of 
events.

Plot:  The series of events and relationships forming the basis of a 
composition: story, story line.

But they're pretty interchangeable, actually, so I suspect the burden is 
upon the user to clarify how he/she's using them.

Best, R.E.F.


----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.

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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 11:32:50 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT:  American Football
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On Friday, August 10, 2001, at 09:20 AM, Jason Martin wrote:

>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Raymond Feist" <raymond@bittersea.com>
> To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> Sent: Friday, August 10, 2001 8:22 AM
> Subject: Re: OT: American Football
>
>
>>
>> On Thursday, August 9, 2001, at 11:14 PM, Jason Martin wrote:
>>
>>> Ok, if you follow it at all and are interested in a Fantasy football
>>> game(Free and cool prizes) contact me OFF the List and I will give 
>>> you a
>>> address and a league.  All you do is pick who you think will win, and
>>> for
>>> monday nights game pick the winner and guess the score.    Hey, Ray 
>>> you
>>> going to the SD Vs. SF preseason game?  I'm assuming the season ticket
>>> holders get tickets for preseason too?
>>>
>>> Now back to are regurlar programming..
>>>
>>> Jason
>>>
>>> "Mas Tequila!"
>>>        Red Vodoo- Sammy Hagar
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Yes, I have pre-season games inflicted upon me with the season tickets.
>>
>> I'm taking the kids and The Goddess to the game tomorrow.  (She's a
>> Niners fan, but I adore her anyway).
>>
>> Best, R.E.F.
>>
>>
>> ----
>>
>> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
>> stupidity.
>>
> Ray, Marry her!  Not only does she sound cute with your description of 
> "The
> Goddess", but she is incredibly smart since she likes the niners.

"Cute" isn't the word I'd use.  She's 5'9" tall and a lot of it is legs, 
so you know there's a reason I call her "The Goddess," rather than "The 
Cute Chick."  Of course, sometimes I refer to her as "The Short, Ugly 
Girl," but people don't seem to buy that.

> Though I
> hope bragging rights are not an issue for the games, since its only a
> preaseaon game...  Have fun at the game.  I'm looking forward to next 
> year
> witt the realignment since the Seattle Seahawks will be joining the NFC
> West, I will beable to go to Seattle to watche the 49ers play.  Though
> before I die, I need to go to SF and wach them play at home.  One of the
> things I want to to is for all 3 major sports (football, basketball, and
> baseball) I want to see one home game of each of my teams.  Got the 
> Phoenix
> Suns done, just need to do the 49ers and the Cubbies.
>

Be afraid.  You realize there is a possibility, though remote, that the 
Cubs could end up in the World Series this year.  Even more frightening, 
they could end up playing the Boston Red Sox.  I think we'd need a major 
suicide watch in the city that loses that one.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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From: "Paddyjack [ ]" <erykel@lycos.com>
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 SNIP

>One of the things I want to to is for all 3 major sports (football, basketball, and
>baseball) I want to see one home game of each of my teams.  >Jason
>
>

And where in these major sports is hockey?? <snif>
My canadian pride is hurt.....

:-))

Paddyjack


Get 250 color business cards for FREE!
http://businesscards.lycos.com/vp/fastpath/



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From: John <john@crydee.com>
Subject: Re: UK edition observation(no spoilers)
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Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 19:47:35 +0100
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Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com> writes
>
>The British have used the double/single quote in opposition to the US 
>since the beginning.  I have no idea why the two nations split along 
>those lines, but as long as I can remember it's been this way.
>
>The US system is slightly superior for one reason alone.  When doing 
>dialogue which contains contractions, the US system makes it a 
>littleeasier to understand where the dialogue stops.
>
>Example:
>
>British:  James said, 'I don't know if I heard right, but I thought I'd 
>hear Mary say, "We're going to mom's."'
>
>US: James said, "I don't know if I heard right, but I thought I'd hear 
>Mary say, 'We're going to mom's.'"
>
>That first ' in don't can be a bit of speed bump, but it's only a small 
>advantage, which is why I said "slightly" above.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>
Ray said "The British don't do it this way". Well that was what I was 
taught I am curious as to this, I may not remember much from my 
schooling but this sticks in my mind. Is this what you think it should 
be ?
-- 
John

john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.

Raymond E Feist Ring
http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm



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From: John <john@crydee.com>
Subject: Re: Bye, bye Dynamix
References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108100851510.13977-100000@rh71test.colltech.com>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 19:51:30 +0100
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Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com> writes
>Man, Sierra has just been put through the ringers since the founders 
>sold it off to Cendant, who sold it to Havas who became Vivendi who are 
>merging with Universal.
>
>Best, R.E.F.

Isn't the end result easy ?

.........who was bought by 'x', , that was a division of 'y', and owned 
by Bill Gates <G>

He does own everything doesn't he ? :)
-- 
John

john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.

Raymond E Feist Ring
http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 14:00:36 -0500
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT:  American Football
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Raymond Feist wrote:
> 
> Be afraid.  You realize there is a possibility, though remote, that the
> Cubs could end up in the World Series this year.  Even more frightening,
> they could end up playing the Boston Red Sox.  I think we'd need a major
> suicide watch in the city that loses that one.

Ahh, just to own a ticket for that series! :)

Craig J Ries, die-hard Cubs fan! :)



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 12:05:27 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: UK edition observation(no spoilers)
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On Friday, August 10, 2001, at 11:47 AM, John wrote:

> Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com> writes
>>
>> The British have used the double/single quote in opposition to the US 
>> since the beginning.  I have no idea why the two nations split along 
>> those lines, but as long as I can remember it's been this way.
>>
>> The US system is slightly superior for one reason alone.  When doing 
>> dialogue which contains contractions, the US system makes it a 
>> littleeasier to understand where the dialogue stops.
>>
>> Example:
>>
>> British:  James said, 'I don't know if I heard right, but I thought 
>> I'd hear Mary say, "We're going to mom's."'
>>
>> US: James said, "I don't know if I heard right, but I thought I'd hear 
>> Mary say, 'We're going to mom's.'"
>>
>> That first ' in don't can be a bit of speed bump, but it's only a 
>> small advantage, which is why I said "slightly" above.
>>
>> Best, R.E.F.
>>
> Ray said "The British don't do it this way". Well that was what I was 
> taught I am curious as to this, I may not remember much from my 
> schooling but this sticks in my mind. Is this what you think it should 
> be ?
> -- John

It may be something very weird with publishing conventions, if you were 
taught the above in school, as it's the same way I was taught here in 
the states.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Subject: Re: OT:  American Football
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT:  American Football
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 14:32:10 -0500
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Just to make you happy...and annoyed:

WOOOHOOO GO RED WINGS!

(While I am at it who forgot the Soccer?  And since when did
baseball have a pulse again?)

----- Original Message -----
> SNIP
>
> >One of the things I want to to is for all 3 major sports (football, basketball, and
> >baseball) I want to see one home game of each of my teams.
>Jason
> >
> >
>
> And where in these major sports is hockey?? <snif>
> My canadian pride is hurt.....
>
> :-))
>
> Paddyjack
>
>
> Get 250 color business cards for FREE!
> http://businesscards.lycos.com/vp/fastpath/
>
>



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*** EOOH ***
From: "Chris Smith" <cjs94@zepler.org.uk>
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On 8 Aug 2001, at 17:53, Raymond Feist wrote:
> buy the popcorn, but as far as writing scripts, no thank you.  You 
> should see the screenplay they did for Faerie Tale.  It is to laugh (or 
> to weep, depending on how seriously you take these things).

Um, have I missed something? Is there a movie based on Faerie Tale, 
or was it just an idea that went flat?

Chris

Chris
--
Chris Smith
Work: chris.smith@tfbplc.co.uk     Home: cjs94@zepler.org.uk
PGP Key available from public key servers; Key ID 0xA9DA8E79
"Veni, vidi, velcro." - "I came, I saw, I stuck around."



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 20:40:41 +0100
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From: John <john@crydee.com>
Subject: Re: UK edition observation(no spoilers)
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Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com> writes
>>>
>> Ray said "The British don't do it this way". Well that was what I was 
>>taught I am curious as to this, I may not remember much from my 
>>schooling but this sticks in my mind. Is this what you think it should 
>>?
>> -- John
>
>It may be something very weird with publishing conventions, if you were 
>taught the above in school, as it's the same way I was taught here in 
>the states.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>----

Just checked a really old EE Doc Smith book , and it uses  'single 
quote'. One thing that comes to mind from looking at the book is that 
older books used to use a lot smaller typeface, and real paper, which 
was just about as good as blotting paper. Could it have been due to ink 
bleed just joining the 2 quote marks together that they just plain gave 
up trying ?
-- 
John

john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.

Raymond E Feist Ring
http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 13:03:44 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Friday, August 10, 2001, at 12:36 PM, Chris Smith wrote:

> On 8 Aug 2001, at 17:53, Raymond Feist wrote:
>> buy the popcorn, but as far as writing scripts, no thank you.  You
>> should see the screenplay they did for Faerie Tale.  It is to laugh (or
>> to weep, depending on how seriously you take these things).
>
> Um, have I missed something? Is there a movie based on Faerie Tale,
> or was it just an idea that went flat?


It was an option deal through Sony Pictures at Columbia Studios, by the 
Linda Guber Organization.  After the Heidi Fleiss fiasco, the "point 
guy" on the project got fired and his successor wanted nothing to do 
with any of his projects.  Very common in Hollywierd.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 13:04:19 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: UK edition observation(no spoilers)
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On Friday, August 10, 2001, at 12:40 PM, John wrote:

> Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com> writes
>>>>
>>> Ray said "The British don't do it this way". Well that was what I was 
>>> taught I am curious as to this, I may not remember much from my 
>>> schooling but this sticks in my mind. Is this what you think it 
>>> should ?
>>> -- John
>>
>> It may be something very weird with publishing conventions, if you 
>> were taught the above in school, as it's the same way I was taught 
>> here in the states.
>>
>> Best, R.E.F.
>> ----
>
> Just checked a really old EE Doc Smith book , and it uses  'single 
> quote'. One thing that comes to mind from looking at the book is that 
> older books used to use a lot smaller typeface, and real paper, which 
> was just about as good as blotting paper. Could it have been due to ink 
> bleed just joining the 2 quote marks together that they just plain gave 
> up trying ?
> -- John

Probably not, given the paper in the old US paperbacks was about the 
same.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
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It has come to my attention that www.crydee.org has been registered.

Please note that although that site is currently under construction, it 
has absolutely nothing to do with www.crydee.com
-- 
John

john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.

Raymond E Feist Ring
http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm



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From: LAR <lds627@home.com>
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>
>If you get into Orange County, let me know.
>
>Best, R.E.F.


Gee Ray and here I was going to offer to make my "orgasm in the mouth meal 
as Laura refers to it."

Portabello mushrooms marinated in balsamic and red  wine vinegar with spices
Chateaubriand broiled in a mix of Hoisin and Plum Sauce
Cajun style oven roasted potatoes
Heart attack green beans with loads of butter and garlic (Plus a couple of 
other ingredients that make em go faster than anything)
Along with a bottle of 97 Merlot

Dessert

Tiramisu and Grappa.

Oh well, guess we play for McDonalds

Larry



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 19:11:57 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Friday, August 10, 2001, at 06:57 PM, LAR wrote:

>
>>
>> If you get into Orange County, let me know.
>>
>> Best, R.E.F.
>
>
> Gee Ray and here I was going to offer to make my "orgasm in the mouth 
> meal as Laura refers to it."
>
> Portabello mushrooms marinated in balsamic and red  wine vinegar with 
> spices
> Chateaubriand broiled in a mix of Hoisin and Plum Sauce
> Cajun style oven roasted potatoes
> Heart attack green beans with loads of butter and garlic (Plus a couple 
> of other ingredients that make em go faster than anything)
> Along with a bottle of 97 Merlot
>
> Dessert
>
> Tiramisu and Grappa.
>
> Oh well, guess we play for McDonalds
>
> Larry
>
>

Tempting (save for the muschrooms--I don't do fungi).  The '97 Merlot is 
a bit generic.  '97 Duckhorn or Matanzas Creek is great.  '97 Bill & 
Ted's Excellent Merlot . . . well, you get the picture.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

On Fri, 10 August 2001, John wrote:

> 
> It has come to my attention that www.crydee.org has been registered.
> 
> Please note that although that site is currently under construction, it 
> has absolutely nothing to do with www.crydee.com
> -- 
> John

   Just wondering...do you know what the site will be about, or who has it?
 
    Also, John, I'm going leaving Arkansas on Monday,(not soon enough
if you ask me) and will be back in Wildwood, New Jersey for good by
Wednesday. (oh boy, another 1300 mile trip in a U-Haul) I won't be
leaving Jersey again, so you can go ahead and change the info for me.

 Thanks,
 
 Anita
 
  
'I lie awake with the sound of the sea, calling to me.'
 

___________________________________________________________________
Join the Space Program: Get FREE E-mail at http://www.space.com.



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Subject: Re: Announcement regarding Crydee.com
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Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 01:13:47 -0400
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Anita,
This might be a bit 'Off Topic' but here it goes.  Your quote reminds me of
a movie called 'The Big Blue'.  Great film, directed by Luc Besson (also did
The Professional and The Fifth Element to name a few)  If you have seen it
then you know what I mean.  Otherwise check it out, going by your quote you
might like it.

----- Original Message -----
From: <dreamfish@space.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2001 11:10 PM
Subject: Re: Announcement regarding Crydee.com

*Snip*

>
> 'I lie awake with the sound of the sea, calling to me.'
>



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Subject: Re: Chaos god
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Subject: Re: Chaos god
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I do not recall any God being named Chaos. I have a vague memory of various 
mentions of a God of chaos, Lords of Chaos, etc. As far as I can tell Chaos 
has always been referred to as a state of existance rather than a name

Larry


At 10:57 PM 8/10/01 +0930, Sonia Tabe wrote:
>Okay, this is a subject that has been bugging me a little. That subject is
>the god, Chaos. Okay, now this may be akin to blasphemy, but I know Chaos is
>mentioned in the books by Mr. Feist, and yet I can't remember how. I need to
>brush up. In the Dragonlance books, Chaos is refered to as "the father of
>all and of nothing".
>Now, the reason why the subject bugs me, is every single author refering to
>'the same' god? I mean, is he somehow a deity that spans across all books?
>Is he a god from our own history? Ack. This isn't coming across too clear, I
>know. I know that there is some kind of link, and would someone who can
>actually understand my ramblings be able to clear this up for me? Thank you.



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Subject: Re: Conclave of Shadows
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Subject: Re: Conclave of Shadows
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You read the first book of Conclave of Shadows? Damn, what year IS this?

Larry
Who having just received Honoured Enemy is WAY behind in his reading

At 04:11 PM 8/6/01 -0400, you wrote:
>Sorry to keep on, I'm just confused, but somewhere I read the first book of
>Conclave of Shadows is Hawk Asscending and somewhere else, Talon of a Silver
>Hawk. Which is it?
>
>Thanks
>
>Ben



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From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Chaos god
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LAR wrote:
> 
> I do not recall any God being named Chaos. I have a vague memory of various
> mentions of a God of chaos, Lords of Chaos, etc. As far as I can tell Chaos
> has always been referred to as a state of existance rather than a name

And to add another footnote, one member of the Dragonlance mailing list
has brought up the fact that Chaos is never referred to as a god in
Dragons of Summer Flame, either. :)

It's not surprising at all that similar ideas and concepts would run
through many fantasy worlds. Chaos as an entity of some sort, ie a god
or something akin, is probably one of the more common ones.
Reading Feist's novels, I've seen mention of the "One True God". In
Dragonlance, Weis & Hickman's new trilogy focuses alot around the One
God.
Forgotten Realms has an "overlord" god in Ao (or some name similar to
that), to which this One True God could be similar to as well, a sort of
God of Gods.

Craig J. Ries



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dreamfish@space.com writes
>On Fri, 10 August 2001, John wrote:
>
>>
>> It has come to my attention that www.crydee.org has been registered.
>>
>> Please note that although that site is currently under construction, it
>> has absolutely nothing to do with www.crydee.com
>> --
>> John
>
>   Just wondering...do you know what the site will be about, or who has it?
No idea as yet. But I had my thoughts

1, They were going to try and sell it to me, Fat Chance <G>
2, A Feist related site, Wow how original, no unique identity , limited 
traffic :)
3, Someone trying to get traffic from those using.ORG in place of .COM. 
Not much hope of that as how many people type .ORG (whatever that is 
<G>) almost invariably .COM is the first attempt
4, Something else

As I am uploading a notice that the site has nothing to do with me to my 
site, it may not help them :)

If the site does start causing email problems when up and running I will 
consider what actions are available. As I currently get over 15000 pages 
looked at a week. I could always ask every visitor to email them :)

>
>    Also, John, I'm going leaving Arkansas on Monday,(not soon enough 
>if you ask me) and will be back in Wildwood, New Jersey for good by 
>Wednesday. (oh boy, another 1300 mile trip in a U-Haul)
At least you know the route
>I won't be leaving Jersey again, so you can go ahead and change the 
>info for me.
>
I think I will just put you down as no fixed abode  :)

best
-- 
John

john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.

Raymond E Feist Ring
http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm



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From: "Jason Martin" <res0b95g@verizon.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: OT: Another Slice of Pie
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 23:57:56 -0700
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From: "Jason Martin" <res0b95g@verizon.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: OT: Another Slice of Pie
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 23:57:56 -0700
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Just got back alittle bit ago from watching American Pie 2.  As far as
sequels go, it was a darn good one.  Not as good as the first, but it was
worth seeing.  if you liked the first one at all, then I would say you would
like the sequel.   I may have seconds on this slice of pie in another week
or two.

Jason

"Mas Tequila!"
       Red Vodoo- Sammy Hagar



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Subject: !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 00:25:23 -0700
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I AGREE! PIE IS GOOD BECAUSE IT HAS NO BONES!

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From: "Ben Lloyd" <benlloyd@wn.com.au>
To: "Raymond Feist List" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Honoured Enemy #13
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 15:51:11 +0800
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From: "Ben Lloyd" <benlloyd@wn.com.au>
To: "Raymond Feist List" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Honoured Enemy #13
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 15:51:11 +0800
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Honoured Enemy is now number 13 at www.amazon.co.uk

-----------
Ben Lloyd



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----- Original Message ----- 
From: Caleb Fox 
To: FEISTFANS-L 
Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2001 5:25 PM
Subject: !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


>I AGREE! PIE IS GOOD BECAUSE IT HAS NO BONES!

Righty-oh then...

Cheers,
James



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Subject: Re: Conclave of Shadows
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From: BH10BH000@aol.com
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 05:17:39 EDT
Subject: Re: Conclave of Shadows
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I'm sorry. I used bad English. I did not mean that I had read the first book 
of the Conclave of Shadows.
Let me rephrase:

Somewhere on the internet I read that the first book of the Conclave of 
Shadows is going to be called Hawk Asscending and somewhere else on the 
internet Talon of a Silver Hawk. Which is it?

Sorry about that.

Anyway I was re-reading Magician and I noticed that Tomas is called at one 
point Tomas Megarson, where the surname is made from the name of the father 
and the word 'son'. Yet the royal family and Erik's family always keep the 
same surname throughout the generations, Con Doin and von Darkmoor 
respectively. Is there any reason for this or am I being picky!
Also what would happen if a couple had a daughter, how would the surname be 
arranged then.

Thanks,

Ben H



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Subject: Re: Conclave of Shadows
From: Falerin Ardendor <falerin@ultraisp.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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> 
> Anyway I was re-reading Magician and I noticed that Tomas is called at one 
> point Tomas Megarson, where the surname is made from the name of the father 
> and the word 'son'. 

A not unheard of practice in our own world.

> Yet the royal family and Erik's family always keep the 
> same surname throughout the generations, Con Doin and von Darkmoor 
> respectively. Is there any reason for this or am I being picky!
> Also what would happen if a couple had a daughter, how would the surname be 
> arranged then.

Both Con Doin and von Darkmoor are Noble families and Con Doin is the
Royal Family
 it is a bit different. But really Surnames even in the real world were
formed in
 many different ways. By the name of an ancestor (Megarson Anderson
Gleason), by 
the name of a place ( Someone of Someplace initially and later generally
shortened
 to someones given name and then just the place name.Kevin of Zun and
Von Darkmoor
actually follow this convention) By the name of the profession of the
breadwinner
Jason Smith, John Baker, James Farrier.Surnames were not common prior to
a certain
point in the realworld and kind of evolved as a way express lineage in a
shorthand.
In this sense whatever makes sense for the individual situation is
appropriate.

Falerin



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Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 15:50:56 +0100
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>>>The British have used the double/single quote in opposition to the US 
>>>since the beginning.  I have no idea why the two nations split along 
>>>those lines, but as long as I can remember it's been this way.
>>Ray said "The British don't do it this way". Well that was what I was 
>>taught I am curious as to this, I may not remember much from my schooling 
>>but this sticks in my mind. Is this what you think it should be ?
>>-- John
>
>It may be something very weird with publishing conventions, if you were 
>taught the above in school, as it's the same way I was taught here in the 
>states.

I distinctly remember being taught this way too, in school here in the UK. 
I'm thinking that the lesson in question would have been around 17 years 
ago, or so.

One of the disadvantages of having a photographic memory: I can picture 
vividly that particular lesson, with Mr. Janda and his squealing chalk, but 
I can't remember my own grandmother's birthday, let alone the significant 
dates of my in-laws :-)

-S



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References: <20010811031051.28073.cpmta@c000.snv.cp.net> <1jbXRjcYVNd7EwI9@cableinet.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Announcement regarding Crydee.com
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 11:19:56 -0500
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Announcement regarding Crydee.com
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 11:19:56 -0500
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> No idea as yet. But I had my thoughts

You gonna' let us know when you find out?

> 1, They were going to try and sell it to me, Fat Chance <G>

<snicker>

> 2, A Feist related site, Wow how original, no unique identity , limited
> traffic :)

I would soon try and play off your site and do something along the
lines of what Ralph has with Elvandar...albeit with another city or
place.  More chance of some independant thought.

> 3, Someone trying to get traffic from those using.ORG in place of .COM.
> Not much hope of that as how many people type .ORG (whatever that is
> <G>) almost invariably .COM is the first attempt

I don't know about anyone else but I only use .org when I am looking
for a group that I know is non-profit.  Even then I generally rely
on search engines.

> 4, Something else

Hmmm, and something else would be what?

> As I am uploading a notice that the site has nothing to do with me to my
> site, it may not help them :)

Understandable.  BTW why do you have the option of making crydee.com
a homepage?  I generally use a home page with access to a search
engine being the primary feature.  I am curious to know if anyone
actually (to your knowledge) set it to be a home page.  (yourself
excluded)

> If the site does start causing email problems when up and running I will
> consider what actions are available. As I currently get over 15000 pages
> looked at a week. I could always ask every visitor to email them :)

Sounds like fun.

Also if they are a fan page, won't they have to go through you to
join the official web ring?

-James



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Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 18:21:42 +0100
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Subject: Re: Announcement regarding Crydee.com
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James Young <jajy@earthlink.net> writes
>
> BTW why do you have the option of making crydee.com
>a homepage?  I generally use a home page with access to a search
>engine being the primary feature.  I am curious to know if anyone
>actually (to your knowledge) set it to be a home page.  (yourself
>excluded)

Actually a good point, I too would be interested to know if anyone has 
used the facility. If not I would likely remove it

No way would I use it, it like Ray say's after writing a book he doesn't 
want to see it again

>Also if they are a fan page, won't they have to go through you to
>join the official web ring?

Lol ! now that would be interesting <G>

-- 
John

john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.

Raymond E Feist Ring
http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm



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Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 18:26:01 +0100
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I am planning on moving ISP, so there may be a few disruptions over the 
next few weeks. I will advise when it is all sorted, but until such time 
if anyone needs to contact me via email then please use

crydee@magic-box.freeserve.co.uk
-- 
John

john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.

Raymond E Feist Ring
http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm



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On 10 Aug 01, at 19:47, John wrote:

> Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com> writes
> >
> >The British have used the double/single quote in opposition to the US
> >since the beginning.  I have no idea why the two nations split along
> >those lines, but as long as I can remember it's been this way.
> >
> >The US system is slightly superior for one reason alone.  When doing
> >dialogue which contains contractions, the US system makes it a
> >littleeasier to understand where the dialogue stops.
> >
> >Example:
> >
> >British:  James said, 'I don't know if I heard right, but I thought I'd
> >hear Mary say, "We're going to mom's."'
> >
> >US: James said, "I don't know if I heard right, but I thought I'd hear
> >Mary say, 'We're going to mom's.'"
> >
> >That first ' in don't can be a bit of speed bump, but it's only a small
> >advantage, which is why I said "slightly" above.
> >
> >Best, R.E.F.
> >
> Ray said "The British don't do it this way". Well that was what I was
> taught I am curious as to this, I may not remember much from my schooling
> but this sticks in my mind. Is this what you think it should be ? -- John

Looking at various British-published books by assorted authors that 
I have, quite a lot of them (possibly the majority) use the " double 
quotes for speech, although other do use the ' single quotes. Apart 
from HE, the other Voyager-published book I've got (Julian May's 
"Orion Arm") also uses the single quotes like but a Harpercollins 
book (which is still the same company and uses the same printers 
as far as I can tell), namely David Eddings' "The Losers" uses 
double quotes...
At school I was always taught to use ", so I don't know why some 
British publishing companies are using '. I suppose there's probably 
some reason for it.
 
> john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,


-- 
William Marnoch
william@wmarnoch.freeserve.co.uk
ICQ:77848483



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From: LAR <lds627@home.com>
Subject: Question for Ray about Collaborations
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Wow, maybe my 3rd honest question in as many years. But, here goes

Ray, when collaborating with Bill, Joel, etc., what did you provide for 
reference material? Besides your own books that is. One may assume they had 
read your previous novels, at least those related to the riftwar. The 
reason I am asking this is that while Kelewan was largely undefined prior 
to your writing with Janny, Midkemia and the kingdom are quite well defined 
in terms of personnel, geography, military strengths, etc. So, I am 
assuming that in order to collaborate they would need some sort of bible or 
outline. (My first thought was the gaming materials, but most of that is 
relevant to 500 years in the future.)

Larry



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 15:36:05 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Question for Ray about Collaborations
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On Saturday, August 11, 2001, at 02:17 PM, LAR wrote:

> Wow, maybe my 3rd honest question in as many years. But, here goes
>
> Ray, when collaborating with Bill, Joel, etc., what did you provide for 
> reference material? Besides your own books that is. One may assume they 
> had read your previous novels, at least those related to the riftwar. 
> The reason I am asking this is that while Kelewan was largely undefined 
> prior to your writing with Janny, Midkemia and the kingdom are quite 
> well defined in terms of personnel, geography, military strengths, etc. 
> So, I am assuming that in order to collaborate they would need some 
> sort of bible or outline. (My first thought was the gaming materials, 
> but most of that is relevant to 500 years in the future.)
>
> Larry
>
>

No manual.  They read Magician and asked lots of questions.  And, as I'm 
the co-writer, it was easy enough to correct continuity mistakes.

Best,R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Subject: Re: OT:  American Football
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Subject: Re: OT:  American Football
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Raymond Feist writes:

 > Be afraid.  You realize there is a possibility, though remote, that the 
 > Cubs could end up in the World Series this year.  Even more frightening, 
 > they could end up playing the Boston Red Sox.  I think we'd need a major 
 > suicide watch in the city that loses that one.
 > 

If the Hub commits collective suicide then things are *not* looking
good for the rest of the universe.

At this point, however, it's going to take a miracle, which is why
Pedro's Return is the answer to all our prayers. (By the way, even if
you're merely a casual baseball fan, watching Pedro pitch is an
amazing sight and well worth the price of admission.)


-Matt



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Subject: Re: OT:  American Football
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Jason Martin" <res0b95g@verizon.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT:  American Football
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 16:39:53 -0700
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"Mas Tequila!"
       Red Vodoo- Sammy Hagar
----- Original Message -----
From: "Raymond Feist" <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2001 11:32 AM
Subject: Re: OT: American Football


>
> On Friday, August 10, 2001, at 09:20 AM, Jason Martin wrote:
>
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Raymond Feist" <raymond@bittersea.com>
> > To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> > Sent: Friday, August 10, 2001 8:22 AM
> > Subject: Re: OT: American Football
> >
> >
> >>
> >> On Thursday, August 9, 2001, at 11:14 PM, Jason Martin wrote:
> >>
> >>> Ok, if you follow it at all and are interested in a Fantasy football
> >>> game(Free and cool prizes) contact me OFF the List and I will give
> >>> you a
> >>> address and a league.  All you do is pick who you think will win, and
> >>> for
> >>> monday nights game pick the winner and guess the score.    Hey, Ray
> >>> you
> >>> going to the SD Vs. SF preseason game?  I'm assuming the season ticket
> >>> holders get tickets for preseason too?
> >>>
> >>> Now back to are regurlar programming..
> >>>
> >>> Jason
> >>>
> >>> "Mas Tequila!"
> >>>        Red Vodoo- Sammy Hagar
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >> Yes, I have pre-season games inflicted upon me with the season tickets.
> >>
> >> I'm taking the kids and The Goddess to the game tomorrow.  (She's a
> >> Niners fan, but I adore her anyway).
> >>
> >> Best, R.E.F.
> >>
> >>
> >> ----
> >>
> >> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
> >> stupidity.
> >>
> > Ray, Marry her!  Not only does she sound cute with your description of
> > "The
> > Goddess", but she is incredibly smart since she likes the niners.
>
> "Cute" isn't the word I'd use.  She's 5'9" tall and a lot of it is legs,
> so you know there's a reason I call her "The Goddess," rather than "The
> Cute Chick."  Of course, sometimes I refer to her as "The Short, Ugly
> Girl," but people don't seem to buy that.
>
> > Though I
> > hope bragging rights are not an issue for the games, since its only a
> > preaseaon game...  Have fun at the game.  I'm looking forward to next
> > year
> > witt the realignment since the Seattle Seahawks will be joining the NFC
> > West, I will beable to go to Seattle to watche the 49ers play.  Though
> > before I die, I need to go to SF and wach them play at home.  One of the
> > things I want to to is for all 3 major sports (football, basketball, and
> > baseball) I want to see one home game of each of my teams.  Got the
> > Phoenix
> > Suns done, just need to do the 49ers and the Cubbies.
> >
>
> Be afraid.  You realize there is a possibility, though remote, that the
> Cubs could end up in the World Series this year.  Even more frightening,
> they could end up playing the Boston Red Sox.  I think we'd need a major
> suicide watch in the city that loses that one.
>
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
>
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
> stupidity.
>
I would love for the Cubbies to get the World Series this year, but I still
think they are one more year away from doing it.  I don't believe they have
enough power in the  line up to go the whole way.  But then again it could
be their year... I certainly pray they make it....  As far as getting
tickets  I'll probably wait another year or so and get them.  I want to do a
season game probably sometime in June...  Though not sure how nice the
weather will be in Chicago then..

Jason



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Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 19:36:42 -0500
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: feistfans-l@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Fear...
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... somebody is already selling a copy of Honoured Enemy on eBay.

Note that they're claiming it's *signed* by sending with it a "loose"
bookplate. :)

Also they're saying it's "VERY HARD TO FIND". I sort of doubt that with
a book less than 10 days since release :)

Craig J. Ries



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Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 01:01:37 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Sam Bridger <sam@samyool.freeserve.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Fear...
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At 19:36 11/08/01 -0500, you wrote:
>... somebody is already selling a copy of Honoured Enemy on eBay.

Good grief, and it's up to $50 already? Heck, I'll gladly make trips to my 
local bookstore for anyone who doesn't want to use an online bookstore for 
$50! :)

>Note that they're claiming it's *signed* by sending with it a "loose"
>bookplate. :)

Is this collector's speak? I'm assuming that it means Ray has signed a 
loose sheet of paper at some point, which they've then inserted?

>Also they're saying it's "VERY HARD TO FIND". I sort of doubt that with
>a book less than 10 days since release :)

Define 'hard to find'. If you're talking about a book which isn't available 
in the US except by importing it from a UK bookseller, then perhaps it's a 
fair comment.

-S

ps: For the astute among you, you'll have noticed that I'm breaking my 
general rule of not more than one post per couple of months. That's what 
comes from having resigned from my job, and working 37 hours a week during 
my notice period instead of the usual 50-60.

Incidentally, I may have posted before, but I'd be interested in hearing 
off-list from anyone who's moved from the UK to the US. At the moment, it's 
less than 8 weeks until we move, and I need to find a decent moving firm (I 
prefer to classify 'decent' by recommendation, not by ad-size in the yellow 
pages).



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From: "Caleb Fox" <mikefasssy@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Valkyrie [spelling??]
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 18:57:19 -0700
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From: "Caleb Fox" <mikefasssy@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Valkyrie [spelling??]
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 18:57:19 -0700
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I have been very into Daiblo Two Expansion computer game lately. I am
just writing because in the game, the Valkyrie where also powerful
lords of the past, and one of your quests is to defeat one, and he is
very difficult. I just thought it was interesting how the two sounded
so familiar.

Caleb Fox

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From: "Sonia Tabe" <sonia@nt-tech.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
References: <200108101829.f7AITSF00510@smtp2.san.rr.com> <001c01c122d1$103e1d60$4785fea9@Sonia>
Subject: Re: Suggestions
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 11:43:20 +0930
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Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: "Sonia Tabe" <sonia@nt-tech.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Suggestions
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 11:43:20 +0930
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


  Response is somewhere down the page in bold...
>>--- Original Message ----- 
>>From: Raymond Feist 
>>To: FEISTFANS-L 
>>Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2001 3:59 AM
>>Subject: Re: Suggestions
>>
>>
>>On Friday, August 10, 2001, at 08:57 AM, Sonia Tabe wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>Plot: King dies. Queen dies.
>>>
>>>Story: King dies. Queen dies of a broken heart.
>>>
>>>Best, R.E.F.
>>>----
>>>
>>>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
>>>stupidity.
>>
>>
>>
>>Now I've read that somewhere before! It was in the book "Novel Writing" by
>>Diane Doubtfire. I went and got the book and it's in my lap right now. It is
>>used in an extract in the book from a book called "Aspects of the Novel" by
>>E. M. Forster. If anyone wants to read it exactly as in the book (someone
>>might) keep reading. If you don't give a fig, stop reading right now =)
>>
>>"Let us define plot. We have defined a story as a narrative of events
>>arranged in their time-sequence. A plot is also a narrative of events, the
>>emphasis falling on causality. 'The king died and then the queen died,' is a
>>story. 'The king died, and then the queen died of grief,' is a plot. The
>>time-sequence is preserved, but the sense of causality overshadows it. Or
>>again: 'The queen died, no one know why, until it was discovered that it was
>>through grief at the death of the king.' This is a plot with a mystery in
>>it, a form capable of high development... a plot demands intelligence and
>>memory also."
>
>I think the example and/or concept predates the book, but I don't know. When was it published?
>
>The book was actually published way back in 1982. So I guess you can call it just a little outdated...
>
>I do know that I'd use the terms in exactly the opposite fashion she's employing them.
>
>Story: an account or report regarding the facts of an event or group of events.
>
>Plot: The series of events and relationships forming the basis of a composition: story, story line.
>
>But they're pretty interchangeable, actually, so I suspect the burden is upon the user to clarify how he/she's using them.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>
>
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by stupidity.

    *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
    Est Sularis Oth Mithas

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From: "Sonia Tabe" <sonia@nt-tech.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
References: <200108101829.f7AITSF00510@smtp2.san.rr.com><001c01c122d1$103e1d60$4785fea9@Sonia> <5.0.2.1.0.20010812020629.0215ad00@artos>
Subject: Re: Suggestions
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From: "Sonia Tabe" <sonia@nt-tech.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Suggestions
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 12:03:22 +0930
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Oh well. I had no idea that bold was consided html. After all you can use it
in word programs. An honest mistake. Anyway, the response was nothing
special. For those of you unfortuante, it was:

The book was actually published way back in 1982. So I guess you can call it
just a little outdated...

Sorry for any problems caused to anyone.



----- Original Message -----
From: Sam Bridger <sam@theadmin.net>
To: <sonia@nt-tech.com.au>
Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2001 10:37 AM
Subject: Re: Suggestions


> At 11:43 12/08/01 +0930, you wrote:
> >>
> >>Response is somewhere down the page in bold..
>
>
> Sonia,
>
> just a thought; most people whine at having html mail posted to this list.
> Also, anyone not having an html-enabled mailreader won't be able to
> distinguish your reply.
>
> -S
>



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References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010812005342.02151790@artos>
Subject: Re: Fear...
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 22:22:36 -0500
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From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Fear...
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 22:22:36 -0500
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    This just seems to be a reminder that some people are less than
honest in their dealings with others.  <sigh>  On the other hand it
also reminds me how stupid and gullible people generally are.
    I'll get my copy from amazon.uk when I get some more money,
which may be a while since I just went to Boston, and now I have to
head to Canada to move a friend over the boarder.  Anyway once I get
it, I'll catch Ray at a signing and get him to scribble his John
Hancock on it and the half a dozen other 1st ed. hardbacks I have
(alas no Magician hardback 1st).

-James

> >... somebody is already selling a copy of Honoured Enemy on eBay.
>
> Good grief, and it's up to $50 already? Heck, I'll gladly make trips to my
> local bookstore for anyone who doesn't want to use an online bookstore for
> $50! :)
>
> >Note that they're claiming it's *signed* by sending with it a "loose"
> >bookplate. :)
>
> Is this collector's speak? I'm assuming that it means Ray has signed a
> loose sheet of paper at some point, which they've then inserted?
>
> >Also they're saying it's "VERY HARD TO FIND". I sort of doubt that with
> >a book less than 10 days since release :)
>
> Define 'hard to find'. If you're talking about a book which isn't available
> in the US except by importing it from a UK bookseller, then perhaps it's a
> fair comment.




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Subject: Re: Valkyrie [spelling??]
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Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 14:28:54 +0930
From: Peter Cuthell <petbcuth@dingoblue.net.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Valkyrie [spelling??]
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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I'm Not sure if the Valkyrie where ever lords of anything.
As far as i can recall they were Odins handmaidens.
The warrior women who flew upon winged horses, over battle fields and
took the warriors who had died on the battle field to Valhalla.
I'm not to sure if any men or lords where part of this grouping from the
Norse Pathanon. 

Caleb Fox wrote:
> 
> I have been very into Daiblo Two Expansion computer game lately. I am
> just writing because in the game, the Valkyrie where also powerful
> lords of the past, and one of your quests is to defeat one, and he is
> very difficult. I just thought it was interesting how the two sounded
> so familiar.
> 
> 
> 
> Caleb Fox
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com



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Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 22:34:05 -0700
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>I'm Not sure if the Valkyrie where ever lords of anything.
>As far as i can recall they were Odins handmaidens. 
>The warrior women who flew upon winged horses, over battle fields and 
>took the warriors who had died on the battle field to Valhalla. 
>I'm not to sure if any men or lords where part of this grouping from the 
>Norse Pathanon. 
> 

hrm, maybe I have forgotten, but weren't the Valkyrie like Ashen
Shogar?? Or is that another race? I haven' tread the books for a while

caleb

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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: LAR <lds627@home.com>
Subject: Re: Valkyrie [spelling??]
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 00:51:28 -0700
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: LAR <lds627@home.com>
Subject: Re: Valkyrie [spelling??]
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Valkyrie are part of Norse Mythology. As well as part of Wagners Ring 
Series (Ride of the Valkyrie). The Valheru are the race in Ray's books

Larry

At 10:34 PM 8/11/01 -0700, you wrote:

> >I'm Not sure if the Valkyrie where ever lords of anything.
> >As far as i can recall they were Odins handmaidens.
> >The warrior women who flew upon winged horses, over battle fields and
> >took the warriors who had died on the battle field to Valhalla.
> >I'm not to sure if any men or lords where part of this grouping from the
> >Norse Pathanon.
> >
>hrm, maybe I have forgotten, but weren't the Valkyrie like Ashen Shogar?? 
>Or is that another race? I haven' tread the books for a while
>
>caleb
>
>
>
>----------
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com



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Subject: Honoured Enemy
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*** EOOH ***
From: "authement" <authement@delanet.com>
To: "FEISTFANS" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Honoured Enemy
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 07:48:43 -0400
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Hi all!  I have been lurking for a few months now and decided it was time to
join the collective.  I received my copy of Honoured Enemy from Amazon UK
the other day and finished it within 24 hrs.  Thanks Ray (and Bill) for a
great book.  The story was great.  Ray, who came up with the story?  Was it
Bill’s, yours, or a combination?

I do have one question but it is a slight spoiler…






















When the heroes are in Wolfgar’s valley, Bovai is angered because of the
distance he will have to travel to go around to another pass.  He mentions
(or at least the “story” mentions) that he will have to go around the Edder
forest because of the glamrehdel (sp?).  Did the morehedel know that the
remnants of the glamrehdel were in the Edder?

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Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 08:05:33 -0700
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 08:05:33 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Honoured Enemy
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On Sunday, August 12, 2001, at 04:48 AM, authement wrote:

> Hi all! I have been lurking for a few months now and decided it was 
> time to join the collective. I received my copy of Honoured Enemy from 
> Amazon UK the other day and finished it within 24 hrs. Thanks Ray (and 
> Bill) for a great book. The story was great. Ray, who came up with the 
> story? Was it Bill’s, yours, or a combination?

The original concept was Bill's.  Each writer I approached was asked to 
first come up with something they wanted to do, and Bill did the "lost 
patrol" bit.  Joel said he wanted to do a murder mystery, and Steve a 
Jimmy the Hand story.

>
>  
>
> I do have one question but it is a slight spoiler…
>
>  
>
>  
>
>  
>
>  
>
>  
>
>  
>
>  
>
>  
>
>  
>
>  
>
>  
>
>  
>
>  
>
>  
>
>  
>
>  
>
>  
>
>  
>
>  
>
>  
>
>  
>
>  
>
> When the heroes are in Wolfgar’s valley, Bovai is angered because of 
> the distance he will have to travel to go around to another pass. He 
> mentions (or at least the “story” mentions) that he will have to go 
> around the Edder forest because of the glamrehdel (sp?). Did the 
> morehedel know that the remnants of the glamrehdel were in the Edder?

Yes.  The human's in Armengar didn't, and neither did the elves in 
Elvendar, but the morehdel had been battling the glamredhel for 
centuries, and knew the Edder was off-limits.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.

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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Martin Andersen <fan2met@online.no>
Subject: Re: Valkyrie [spelling??]
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 17:08:38 +0200
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Martin Andersen <fan2met@online.no>
Subject: Re: Valkyrie [spelling??]
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

The Valkyries were only women, and, as you said, they were the handmaidens 
of Odin. IIRC they didn't fly upon winged horses, they were said to be 
bird-like creatures themselves. They didn't just take those who died to 
Valhalla, they also decided who was to die. Hence, Val, which means death, 
and Kyries, which means choice.

Martin
----------
"If it be your will,
if there is a choice,
let the rivers fill,
let the hills rejoice" - Leonard Cohen


At 14:28 12.08.01 +0930, you wrote:
>I'm Not sure if the Valkyrie where ever lords of anything.
>As far as i can recall they were Odins handmaidens.
>The warrior women who flew upon winged horses, over battle fields and
>took the warriors who had died on the battle field to Valhalla.
>I'm not to sure if any men or lords where part of this grouping from the
>Norse Pathanon.
>
>Caleb Fox wrote:
> >
> > I have been very into Daiblo Two Expansion computer game lately. I am
> > just writing because in the game, the Valkyrie where also powerful
> > lords of the past, and one of your quests is to defeat one, and he is
> > very difficult. I just thought it was interesting how the two sounded
> > so familiar.
> >
> >
> >
> > Caleb Fox
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 11:06:18 -0500
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Fear...
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Sam Bridger wrote:
> 
> Good grief, and it's up to $50 already? Heck, I'll gladly make trips to my
> local bookstore for anyone who doesn't want to use an online bookstore for
> $50! :)

No kidding!

> Is this collector's speak? I'm assuming that it means Ray has signed a
> loose sheet of paper at some point, which they've then inserted?

Essentially, yes. A signed piece of paper inserted into the book.
Bookplates are generally stickers that can be put inside a book, but to
claim that it's a loose one means it wasn't even genuinely signed for
this book, but was gotten elsewhere.

> Define 'hard to find'. If you're talking about a book which isn't available
> in the US except by importing it from a UK bookseller, then perhaps it's a
> fair comment.

I dunno. If Amazon was set up better (ie, displaying stuff on Amazon.com
that is listed on Amazon.co.uk, maybe with a notation that it can be
bought from .uk) then more people would find more stuff that they're
looking for.

I'm not sure if any of the other major booksellers (Barnes & Noble,
Waldenbooks, Borders, Chapters) have this book available, but to claim a
book is "hard to find" on the internet is a joke; it's not costing me
that much to have it shipped from the UK. You just have to know that the
book is there *to begin with*, which seems to be the problem.

Craig J. Ries



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Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 10:40:41 -0700
From: Carl Dershem <dershem@home.com>
Organization: Project Selene
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Valkyrie [spelling??]
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Martin Andersen wrote:
> 
> The Valkyries were only women, and, as you said, they were the handmaidens
> of Odin. IIRC they didn't fly upon winged horses, they were said to be
> bird-like creatures themselves. They didn't just take those who died to
> Valhalla, they also decided who was to die. Hence, Val, which means death,
> and Kyries, which means choice.

Hrm.  The version's I've read were a bit different from that.  The
Valkyrie were the "choosers of the dead" and rode, invisible to all save
for their intended victims) over battlefields, choosing the truly
herocis to sit at Odin't side in the hall of heroes in Valhalla.  In
form, they were beautiful woman - not winged creatures - and (there is
some disagreement here) may have been shieldmaidens in life, not winged
creatures.

cd



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From: "Caleb Fox" <mikefasssy@hotmail.com>
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oh, thats it,the valheru, my bad everyone.

caleb

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Subject: Nakor
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Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 14:32:51 EDT
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    In Shards, I think, or Rage it says that Nakor took up residence as the 
Black Sorcerer. When was this because I can not see where he does during the 
books.
    Also does Macros start bonding with Sarig at the end of the Riftwar 
Trilogy or is it later on.
    Lastly, who is Nakor, this is really bugging me, he is really cool and 
yet he seems to know absolutely everything that is going on. He's got to be 
more than a gambler who knows a few tricks?

Thanks,

Ben



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From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re: Who made the Mad God mad?
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Thank you for the insight on the Greater Gods. The info availible on the 
FAQ's left me a bit confused but they make more sense to me now. I have 3 
more questions on the races as well.

1. With the two blind gods of the beginning out of the picture, who do the 
nonhuman races, (eg. Elves, Dwarves, Goblins, Trolls, Dragons, and 
Kobolds/Gnomes) on Midkemia worship?

2. Also, did all of the Valheru use Elves as slaves, or did they all create 
there own particular servitor races, like Drakin-Korin did with the Tigermen 
and Alma-Lodaka did with all the various lizard and serpent races?

3. Am I correct in my belief that the Valheru created the Elves?

Thanks for your insight.

Adieu

Jimmy



>From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
>Subject: Re: Who made the Mad God mad?
>Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 16:06:51 -0700
>
>
>On Thursday, August 9, 2001, at 03:14 PM, James Silva wrote:
>
>>Hi Ray:
>>
>>If Arch-Indar is 100% good, and Nalar is 100% Evil, Does that mean that:
>>
>>Ishap is 100% Neutral?
>>
>>Abram-Sev is 100% Lawful?
>>
>>What about the other Controller gods, what aspect of reality do they
>>represent?
>>
>>Helbinor, Graf, and Ev-Dem?
>
>Abram-Sev is neither Lawful or Chaotic.
>
>Abram-Sev is the builder, the overt force, the obvious, the external.
>
>Ev-Dem is the worker from within, the covert, the hidden.
>
>Graf is the weaver of dreams, the imagined, the stuff that glues the
>external and internal together, the binder.
>
>Helbinor is the abstainer, the force that has no place, yet exists.
>Consider him the anti-mater of this mystic universe.
>
>Ishap is the balancer, the force that keeps everything else in harmony.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
>stupidity.
>


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp



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Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 12:53:58 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Who made the Mad God mad?
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On Sunday, August 12, 2001, at 11:46 AM, James Silva wrote:

> Thank you for the insight on the Greater Gods. The info availible on 
> the FAQ's left me a bit confused but they make more sense to me now. I 
> have 3 more questions on the races as well.
>
> 1. With the two blind gods of the beginning out of the picture, who do 
> the nonhuman races, (eg. Elves, Dwarves, Goblins, Trolls, Dragons, and 
> Kobolds/Gnomes) on Midkemia worship?

No idea.  Never was an issue in the game, so I never bothered to think 
about it for the books.

>
> 2. Also, did all of the Valheru use Elves as slaves, or did they all 
> create there own particular servitor races, like Drakin-Korin did with 
> the Tigermen and Alma-Lodaka did with all the various lizard and 
> serpent races?

A few did, as vanities.  Most didn't.

>
> 3. Am I correct in my belief that the Valheru created the Elves?

No.  The elves were natural to Midkemia as were the Valheru and the 
dragons.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.

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Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 17:18:57 -0500
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
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Raymond Feist wrote:
> 
>      3. Am I correct in my belief that the Valheru created the Elves?
> 
> No. The elves were natural to Midkemia as were the Valheru and the dragons.

Hmm. While reading the Riftwar books, it seemed to me as though the
Valheru created the elves. Misinterpretation on my part?

Craig J. Ries



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Subject: Re: Honoured Enemy #13
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 13:21:57 +1000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Daniel Thoroughgood" <dthoroug@bigpond.net.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Honoured Enemy #13
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 13:21:57 +1000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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I noted in Grace Bros at Macquarie Park yesterday afternoon it was listed at
#9 on their list.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ben Lloyd" <benlloyd@wn.com.au>
To: "Raymond Feist List" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2001 5:51 PM
Subject: Honoured Enemy #13


> Honoured Enemy is now number 13 at www.amazon.co.uk
>
> -----------
> Ben Lloyd
>



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From: kuros@pgtv.net (kuros)
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0108100851510.13977-100000@rh71test.colltech.com><200108101547.f7AFlFF14861@smtp2.san.rr.com> <7KxE7dGy0Cd7Ewao@cableinet.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Bye, bye Dynamix
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 14:02:07 -0700
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*** EOOH ***
From: kuros@pgtv.net (kuros)
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Bye, bye Dynamix
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 14:02:07 -0700
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Not everything. I think there's a chocolate ant making company in Uganda
that is still independantly owned...I could be wrong though.

Kuros
"Of course I'm sure Tyrannosaurs's can't see you if you don't mo-" -Bob the
Jurassic Park Tourist
----- Original Message -----
From: "John" <john@crydee.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2001 11:51 AM
Subject: Re: Bye, bye Dynamix


> Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com> writes
> >Man, Sierra has just been put through the ringers since the founders
> >sold it off to Cendant, who sold it to Havas who became Vivendi who are
> >merging with Universal.
> >
> >Best, R.E.F.
>
> Isn't the end result easy ?
>
> .........who was bought by 'x', , that was a division of 'y', and owned
> by Bill Gates <G>
>
> He does own everything doesn't he ? :)
> --
> John
>
> john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
> http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.
>
> Raymond E Feist Ring
> http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm
>



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From: Torstein Litlabø <litlaboe@online.no>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: OT: Roleplaying for Dummies
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 08:09:28 +0100
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*** EOOH ***
From: Torstein Litlabø <litlaboe@online.no>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: OT: Roleplaying for Dummies
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 08:09:28 +0100
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

First of all, sorry for posting OT.

We are three friends who would like to try playing a roleplaying
game. We've tried once before, but never really understood how it
works. That means we have no experience at all, at least none that
matters.

What we're looking for is someone who could explain the basics for us,
kind of like a 'Roleplaying for Dummies', step-by-step beginners guide
in roleplaying. I've searched the web, but so far haven't found
anything useful, everywhere we turn some roleplaying experience is
required to understand what is being written/talked about. The guy in
the local RPG/Fantasy store gave us the 'If you don't know already,
why are you in this store'-look when we asked him for an explanation
or a step-by-step guide.

We are aware of the vast scope of this topic and have no intention of
trying to learn it all at once, but feel like we have to start
somewhere.

If anyone feels the calling, or have tips as on where to start
looking, reply to this mail off-list.

With regards,
Torstein Litlaboe



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Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 00:38:07 -0700
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From: Alan Kellogg <mythusmage@cts.com>
Subject: Re: OT: Roleplaying for Dummies
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 00:38:07 -0700
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Alan Kellogg <mythusmage@cts.com>
Subject: Re: OT: Roleplaying for Dummies
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

>First of all, sorry for posting OT.
>
>We are three friends who would like to try playing a roleplaying 
>game. We've tried once before, but never really understood how it 
>works. That means we have no experience at all, at least none that 
>matters.
>
>What we're looking for is someone who could explain the basics for 
>us, kind of like a 'Roleplaying for Dummies', step-by-step beginners 
>guide in roleplaying. I've searched the web, but so far haven't 
>found anything useful, everywhere we turn some roleplaying 
>experience is required to understand what is being written/talked 
>about. The guy in the local RPG/Fantasy store gave us the 'If you 
>don't know already, why are you in this store'-look when we asked 
>him for an explanation or a step-by-step guide.
>
>We are aware of the vast scope of this topic and have no intention 
>of trying to learn it all at once, but feel like we have to start 
>somewhere.
>
>If anyone feels the calling, or have tips as on where to start 
>looking, reply to this mail off-list.
>
>With regards,
>Torstein Litlaboe

One thing that would really help would be knowing where you're 
located. Right now teleportation only works with subatomic particles, 
and weekly transcontinental flights can get expensive.

Alan
-- 
_______

Mythusmage.com, <http://www.mythusmage.com> at its new location!

mailto:mythusmage@mythusmage.com

ICQ: 103299329



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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: HE: placed the order too
In-Reply-To: <200108110211.f7B2BnR22693@smtp1.san.rr.com>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 09:10:40 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: HE: placed the order too
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

At 07:11 PM 8/10/01 -0700, Raymond Feist wrote:
>On Friday, August 10, 2001, at 06:57 PM, LAR wrote:
>>Portabello mushrooms marinated in balsamic and red  wine vinegar with spices
>>Chateaubriand broiled in a mix of Hoisin and Plum Sauce
>>Cajun style oven roasted potatoes
>>Heart attack green beans with loads of butter and garlic (Plus a couple of other ingredients that make em go faster than anything)
>>Along with a bottle of 97 Merlot
>>
>>Dessert
>>
>>Tiramisu and Grappa.
>>
>>Oh well, guess we play for McDonalds

I'm in the middle of a diet.  I've lost about 20 pounds since
the beginning of June.  One thing I've cut out was McD/BK/etc.

And you've got the unmitigated nerve to mention in on the
list.

Oh, the rest of it sounded good, too.  heh.

If I've reached my target weight (95 <= m < 100) by next
June, I'll take you up on the offer of the heart attack
green beans. 

>>Tempting (save for the muschrooms--I don't do fungi).  The '97 Merlot is a bit generic.  '97 Duckhorn or Matanzas Creek is great.  '97 Bill & Ted's Excellent Merlot . . . well, you get the picture.

Don't tell my wife, I only really like marinated button mushrooms on 
pizza.  Anything else is just a waste...and she likes to do portabellos
also as "a treat" also.  *sigh*

And this is a typical "wine" discussion:

Her:  How did you find the wine?
Me:  um...red?

rip



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From: "Donal K. Fellows" <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
In-reply-to: <20010811122454.E9C316660F@farpoint.jeocom.net> (message from
	Falerin Ardendor on 11 Aug 2001 17:24:54 +0500)
Subject: Re: Conclave of Shadows
References:  <20010811122454.E9C316660F@farpoint.jeocom.net>
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From: "Donal K. Fellows" <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Conclave of Shadows
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 10:14:17 +0100
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Falerin Ardendor <falerin@ultraisp.com>
> Surnames were not common prior to a certain point in the realworld
> and kind of evolved as a way express lineage in a shorthand.  In
> this sense whatever makes sense for the individual situation is
> appropriate.

I believe that up until last century, lineage-based naming was still
common in parts of Lancashire.  The coastal communities were quite
distinct from the rest of the county (having been settled from the sea
by the Vikings at a time when immediately inland lay large marshes)
and had only one or two surnames, resulting in it being very difficult
to tell people apart from their formal name.  Instead, people would
use the female-side[*] lineage back for quite a long way, as that was
much more distinctive.  So, Bob Rimmer might have been referred to as
Rita's Mary's Sue's Edna's Bob.  I believe this practise only really
stopped when greater population mobility introduced more surnames into
the area...

Donal.
[* Probably because it is a wise man indeed that knows his father, but
   who is mother of whom is pretty easy to work out... <eg> ]
-- 
Donal K. Fellows, Department of Computer Science, University of Manchester, UK.
(work) fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk     Tel: +44-161-275-6137  (preferred email addr.)
(home) donal@ugglan.demon.co.uk  Tel: +44-1274-401017   Mobile: +44-7957-298955
http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~fellowsd/  (Don't quote my .sig; I've seen it before!)



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From: "David Christensen" <damc84@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Frustration
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 09:50:50 
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From: "David Christensen" <damc84@hotmail.com>
To: feistfans-l@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Frustration
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 09:50:50 
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Don't you just hate losing an auction? :) Chaosium's edition of Midkemia 
Press' Carse was up for grabs, and I had been following the auction for a 
week before putting in a bid three days before it ended which I thought 
would make me a sure winner. It held out all right, right up until the final 
45 minutes when someone beat my bid by a dollar. I thought I was crazy, 
being ready to pay up to 25 dollars for the module, but apparantly Carse is 
so hard to get that people will be paying up to twice that amount??? Its 
frustrating (especially since it was the module that would make my Midkemia 
Press RPG collection complete). Sorry, had to vent it out somewhere :)

David

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp



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From: LAR <lds627@home.com>
Subject: Re:Food and Wine  - (WAS HE: placed the order too)
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20010813090502.00eef5b0@mail.swindon.wrsec.fr>
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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu, FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: LAR <lds627@home.com>
Subject: Re:Food and Wine  - (WAS HE: placed the order too)
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>
>If I've reached my target weight (95 <= m < 100) by next
>June, I'll take you up on the offer of the heart attack
>green beans.

Well, since your coming from the UK, deal. I only cook this meal for 
special guests and when I wanted to win my wife's favor when first dating. 
(Her reaction, Damn he CAN cook too? <G>).. I will drop the mushrooms from 
the menu and both you and Ray expressed similar feelings.


> >>Tempting (save for the muschrooms--I don't do fungi).  The '97 Merlot 
> is a bit generic.  '97 Duckhorn or Matanzas Creek is great.  '97 Bill & 
> Ted's Excellent Merlot . . . well, you get the picture.
>
>Don't tell my wife, I only really like marinated button mushrooms on
>pizza.  Anything else is just a waste...and she likes to do portabellos
>also as "a treat" also.  *sigh*
>
>And this is a typical "wine" discussion:
>
>Her:  How did you find the wine?
>Me:  um...red?
>
>rip


ROFL, you and Laura will get along fine. It took me quite  a while to 
convince Laura that Wine is NOT a beverage. I am half french, so for me it 
was always a part of the meal. Imagine my chagrin after INSISTING that REAL 
Wine does not come with a screw cap, that it becomes the latest trend.

Larry
Mumbling something about wine in a box being next



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Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 00:41:40 +1000
From: "Jason Mulligan" <sulimo@bigpond.net.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Frustration
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On 13/08/2001 at 9:50 AM David Christensen wrote:

>Don't you just hate losing an auction? :) Chaosium's edition of Midkemia 
>Press' Carse was up for grabs, and I had been following the auction for a 

Speaking of Midkemia Press products, I'm looking at picking up copies of the 
remaining copies from Steve Abrams. Anyway, I'm trying to find any copies who 
offer ther service whereby I pay them to send a cheque/money order to Steve 
(Instead of me sending it email all the way from Australia).

Can anyone help me in this regard?



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Subject: Re:Food and Wine  - (WAS HE: placed the order too)
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Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 15:43:58 +0100
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From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re:Food and Wine  - (WAS HE: placed the order too)
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At 07:26 AM 8/13/01 -0700, LAR wrote:
>Well, since your coming from the UK, deal. I only cook this meal for special guests and when I wanted to win my wife's favor when first dating. (Her reaction, Damn he CAN cook too? <G>).. I will drop the mushrooms from the menu and both you and Ray expressed similar feelings.

I'm sure you'll come up with something as a reasonable 
replacement ;->.  

>ROFL, you and Laura will get along fine. It took me quite  a while to convince Laura that Wine is NOT a beverage. I am half french, so for me it was always a part of the meal. Imagine my chagrin after INSISTING that REAL Wine does not come with a screw cap, that it becomes the latest trend.
>
>Larry
>Mumbling something about wine in a box being next

Mais oui!  If zee coostemur whants zee Chateau le Boit, troisieme
pressinge, zen we geev him zee best zer eez!

Petaluma, yup.  We can do that.  Make it a weekend afternoon
because I plan on heading East to the house in the Sierras,
We pass over the Altamont, through Petaluma to Tracy, up
the 5 to Louise Avenue, zig-zag East, catch Escalan-Belota
Road to HW 4 at Farmington, then straight up the mountain to
Alpine...dude I can hardly wait.  7 years since I was last
up there, living in constant fear that Grandma would sell the
place...and I still see the route in my head...

How long have you lived in Petaluma?  I had family there who
were HS teachers 1970-1990 ish before retiring to the ...Sierras.
Notice a certain distinct bias for the mountains? ;->

rip



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In-reply-to: <5.1.0.14.0.20010813072217.01dc7ec0@mail> (message from LAR on
	Mon, 13 Aug 2001 07:26:47 -0700)
Subject: Re: Food and Wine  - (WAS HE: placed the order too)
References: <200108110211.f7B2BnR22693@smtp1.san.rr.com>
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Donal K. Fellows" <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Food and Wine  - (WAS HE: placed the order too)
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 15:41:46 +0100
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LAR <lds627@home.com>
> ROFL, you and Laura will get along fine. It took me quite  a while to 
> convince Laura that Wine is NOT a beverage. I am half french, so for me it 
> was always a part of the meal. Imagine my chagrin after INSISTING that REAL 
> Wine does not come with a screw cap, that it becomes the latest trend.
> 
> Larry
> Mumbling something about wine in a box being next

I've seen beer come from soda fountains, so wine in a box doesn't seem
too bad to me.  So long as it doesn't *taste* like the box...

Donal.
-- 
Donal K. Fellows, Department of Computer Science, University of Manchester, UK.
(work) fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk     Tel: +44-161-275-6137  (preferred email addr.)
(home) donal@ugglan.demon.co.uk  Tel: +44-1274-401017   Mobile: +44-7957-298955
http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~fellowsd/  (Don't quote my .sig; I've seen it before!)



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 15:45:31 +0100
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Apologies, I thought that last message was direct,
didn't realize it was still on the list...

my bad.

rip



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From: John <john@crydee.com>
Subject: Re: Food and Wine  - (WAS HE: placed the order too)
References: <200108110211.f7B2BnR22693@smtp1.san.rr.com>
 <5.1.0.14.0.20010810183436.01e34260@mail>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 18:15:19 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: John <john@crydee.com>
Subject: Re: Food and Wine  - (WAS HE: placed the order too)
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LAR <lds627@home.com> writes
>
>>
>>If I've reached my target weight (95 <= m < 100) by next
>>June, I'll take you up on the offer of the heart attack
>>green beans.
>
>Well, since your coming from the UK, deal. I only cook this meal for 
>special guests and when I wanted to win my wife's favor when first 
>dating. (Her reaction, Damn he CAN cook too? <G>).. I will drop the 
>mushrooms from the menu and both you and Ray expressed similar feelings.
>
In my house I usually cook the spicy stuff :) My wife doesn't know I can 
cook roasts. I don't think I would tell her as she would have me cooking 
everything :)

Ray, do you have a flair for cooking? what's your speciality? or do you 
prefer eating out or TV dinners ?
-- 
John

john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.

Raymond E Feist Ring
http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 10:29:32 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Food and Wine  - (WAS HE: placed the order too)
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On Monday, August 13, 2001, at 10:15 AM, John wrote:

> LAR <lds627@home.com> writes
>>
>>>
>>> If I've reached my target weight (95 <= m < 100) by next
>>> June, I'll take you up on the offer of the heart attack
>>> green beans.
>>
>> Well, since your coming from the UK, deal. I only cook this meal for 
>> special guests and when I wanted to win my wife's favor when first 
>> dating. (Her reaction, Damn he CAN cook too? <G>).. I will drop the 
>> mushrooms from the menu and both you and Ray expressed similar 
>> feelings.
>>
> In my house I usually cook the spicy stuff :) My wife doesn't know I 
> can cook roasts. I don't think I would tell her as she would have me 
> cooking everything :)
>
> Ray, do you have a flair for cooking? what's your speciality? or do you 
> prefer eating out or TV dinners ?\

I grill meat.  It's an American tradition.  Actually, I make a killer 
spaghetti as well, with a meat sauce to die for.

I prefer eating out, actually.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.

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From: John <john@crydee.com>
Subject: Role-playing for Dummies
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 18:33:02 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: John <john@crydee.com>
Subject: Role-playing for Dummies
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Torstein Litlabø <litlaboe@online.no> writes
>First of all, sorry for posting OT.
>
>We are three friends who would like to try playing a roleplaying game. 
>We've tried once before, but never really understood how it works. That 
>means we have no experience at all, at least none that matters.

To Bring it On Topic

Ray how were you introduced to role-playing. We know you joined an 
existing group , but was it a case I need to understand what these mad 
people do  or..... ?

Did you ever DM a game, did you find you were good at it, or was you a 
better player ?

Did you find pitfalls in the way you were introduced to the game ?

When was the last time you played?, do the original group have a reunion 
occasionally for a good ol hack and slash session ?
-- 
John

john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.

Raymond E Feist Ring
http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm



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Subject: Re: Frustration
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 18:38:02 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: John <john@crydee.com>
Subject: Re: Frustration
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David Christensen <damc84@hotmail.com> writes
>Don't you just hate losing an auction? :) Chaosium's edition of 
>Midkemia Press' Carse was up for grabs, and I had been following the 
>auction for a week before putting in a bid three days before it ended 
>which I thought would make me a sure winner.

You will find the same seller often has Carse, Cities and Tulan if it is 
who I think it is
>It held out all right, right up until the final 45 minutes when someone 
>beat my bid by a dollar. I thought I was crazy, being ready to pay up 
>to 25 dollars for the module, but apparantly Carse is so hard to get 
>that people will be paying up to twice that amount???

Its not hard to get, its tactics, You need to ignore it and only bid in 
the last few seconds, with what you are prepared to pay. (remember, 
interest generates interest). Unless the bidder is 'midkemia' when you 
may as well just give up <G>
> Its frustrating (especially since it was the module that would make my 
>Midkemia Press RPG collection complete). Sorry, had to vent it out 
>somewhere :)

Are you sure you have them all, check my site, and see if you have :)
-- 
John

john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.

Raymond E Feist Ring
http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm



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From: John <john@crydee.com>
Subject: Re: Frustration
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Subject: Re: Frustration
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Jason Mulligan <sulimo@bigpond.net.au> writes
>Speaking of Midkemia Press products, I'm looking at picking up copies of the
>remaining copies from Steve Abrams. Anyway, I'm trying to find any copies who
>offer ther service whereby I pay them to send a cheque/money order to Steve
>(Instead of me sending it email all the way from Australia).
>
>Can anyone help me in this regard?
>
>
Just get cash from the local travel agent and send in an envelope it is 
low risk, as it is a low sum IIRC it cost me 25US $ for 3 title, 
including shipping and a Pint for Steve
-- 
John

john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.

Raymond E Feist Ring
http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm



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From: John <john@crydee.com>
Subject: Re: Food and Wine  - (WAS HE: placed the order too)
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Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com> writes
>I grill meat.  It's an American tradition.  Actually, I make a killer 
>spaghetti as well, with a meat sauce to die for.
>
>I prefer eating out, actually.

It saves a lot of time, and you can entertain your lady friends at the 
same time, quite convenient :)
-- 
John

john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.

Raymond E Feist Ring
http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm



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From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Food and Wine  - (WAS HE: placed the order too)
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 14:18:48 -0500
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> >I grill meat.  It's an American tradition.  Actually, I make a killer
> >spaghetti as well, with a meat sauce to die for.
> >
> >I prefer eating out, actually.
>
> It saves a lot of time, and you can entertain your lady friends at the
> same time, quite convenient :)

Not that I am a particular expert with the ladies, but I certainly
have found that being capible in the kitchen does keep them around
when one is less then steller in the bank's estimation (Not that Ray
seems to have that problem, but I'm broke).  I make pretty good food
when I set my mind to it.

-James




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From: "David Christensen" <damc84@hotmail.com>
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Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 21:09:23 
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Ray? Broke?! :)

David

>From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
>Subject: Re: Food and Wine  - (WAS HE: placed the order too)
>Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 14:18:48 -0500
>
> > >I grill meat.  It's an American tradition.  Actually, I make a
>killer
> > >spaghetti as well, with a meat sauce to die for.
> > >
> > >I prefer eating out, actually.
> >
> > It saves a lot of time, and you can entertain your lady friends at
>the
> > same time, quite convenient :)
>
>Not that I am a particular expert with the ladies, but I certainly
>have found that being capible in the kitchen does keep them around
>when one is less then steller in the bank's estimation (Not that Ray
>seems to have that problem, but I'm broke).  I make pretty good food
>when I set my mind to it.
>
>-James
>
>


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp



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From: "David Christensen" <damc84@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re: Frustration
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From: "David Christensen" <damc84@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re: Frustration
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 21:19:34 
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Hmm. Nope. :) I haven't collected all the Midkemia Press RPG stuff, if you 
mean getting myself a copy of every edition of every title is what that 
entails. That won't only leave me broke, some of the stuff is so hard to 
find (from where I live) it'll leave me frustrated :) No, i'm content with 
the Midkemia Press editions of Cities, Jonril and Sunken Lands, the Chaosium 
edition of Tulan and the dowloadable pdf files of Towns of the Outlands and 
The Black Tower which are available at midkemia.com- im still looking for 
Carse, though.

Im not really a collector in that sense, I intend to use the gaming 
material- currently im using the Village of Hoxley scenario from the Tulan 
module as a warm-up to the Black Tower in my play-by-email game.

David


>From: John <john@crydee.com>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
>Subject: Re: Frustration
>Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 18:38:02 +0100
>
>David Christensen <damc84@hotmail.com> writes
>>Don't you just hate losing an auction? :) Chaosium's edition of
>>Midkemia Press' Carse was up for grabs, and I had been following the
>>auction for a week before putting in a bid three days before it ended
>>which I thought would make me a sure winner.
>
>You will find the same seller often has Carse, Cities and Tulan if it is
>who I think it is
>>It held out all right, right up until the final 45 minutes when someone
>>beat my bid by a dollar. I thought I was crazy, being ready to pay up
>>to 25 dollars for the module, but apparantly Carse is so hard to get
>>that people will be paying up to twice that amount???
>
>Its not hard to get, its tactics, You need to ignore it and only bid in
>the last few seconds, with what you are prepared to pay. (remember,
>interest generates interest). Unless the bidder is 'midkemia' when you
>may as well just give up <G>
>>Its frustrating (especially since it was the module that would make my
>>Midkemia Press RPG collection complete). Sorry, had to vent it out
>>somewhere :)
>
>Are you sure you have them all, check my site, and see if you have :)
>--
>John
>
>john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
>http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.
>
>Raymond E Feist Ring
>http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm
>


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 14:36:38 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Role-playing for Dummies
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On Monday, August 13, 2001, at 10:33 AM, John wrote:

> Torstein Litlabø <litlaboe@online.no> writes
>> First of all, sorry for posting OT.
>>
>> We are three friends who would like to try playing a roleplaying game. 
>> We've tried once before, but never really understood how it works. 
>> That means we have no experience at all, at least none that matters.
>
> To Bring it On Topic
>
> Ray how were you introduced to role-playing. We know you joined an 
> existing group , but was it a case I need to understand what these mad 
> people do  or..... ?

I got involved with friends who were playing with some other folks at 
the Triton Wargaming Society at UCSD back in '74.
>
> Did you ever DM a game, did you find you were good at it, or was you a 
> better player ?

I've done both.  Novindus was my campaign.

>
> Did you find pitfalls in the way you were introduced to the game ?

I have no idea what that means?

>
> When was the last time you played?, do the original group have a 
> reunion occasionally for a good ol hack and slash session

I last played over a dozen years ago.  The original group includes one 
friend who's deceased, one living in Milwaukee, two living in Texas, one 
in Florida, one in Washington D.C., and one in Seattle.  Only five of us 
live anywhere near one another, and one of them has fallen out of touch 
with the other four over the years.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.

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David Christensen <damc84@hotmail.com> writes
>Hmm. Nope. :) I haven't collected all the Midkemia Press RPG stuff, if 
>you mean getting myself a copy of every edition of every title is what 
>that entails. That won't only leave me broke, some of the stuff is so 
>hard to find (from where I live) it'll leave me frustrated :) No, i'm 
>content with the Midkemia Press editions of Cities, Jonril and Sunken 
>Lands, the Chaosium edition of Tulan and the dowloadable pdf files of 
>Towns of the Outlands and The Black Tower which are available at 
>midkemia.com- im still looking for Carse, though.
>
>Im not really a collector in that sense, I intend to use the gaming 
>material- currently im using the Village of Hoxley scenario from the 
>Tulan module as a warm-up to the Black Tower in my play-by-email game.
>
Don't forget the Thieves World, package IIRC it has something by 
Midkemia press in it
-- 
John

john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.

Raymond E Feist Ring
http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 22:44:18 +0100
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From: John <john@crydee.com>
Subject: Re: Role-playing for Dummies
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Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com> writes
>
>
>Did you find pitfalls in the way you were introduced to the game ?
>
>I have no idea what that means?
>
>
Basically were you dropped in at the deep end not knowing how to play, 
or did you get a lot of help from the rest to develop your characters

>I last played over a dozen years ago.  The original group includes one 
>friend who's deceased, one living in Milwaukee, two living in Texas, 
>one in Florida, one in Washington D.C., and one in Seattle.  Only five 
>of us live anywhere near one another, and one of them has fallen out of 
>touch with the other four over the years.

Definitely time for a reunion :)

-- 
John

john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.

Raymond E Feist Ring
http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm



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From: Allan Mills <milla@css.com.au>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" (FEISTFANS-L) <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Role-playing for Dummies
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: John [mailto:john@crydee.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2001 7:44 AM
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Subject: Re: Role-playing for Dummies
> 
> 
> Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com> writes
> >
> >
> >Did you find pitfalls in the way you were introduced to the game ?
> >
> >I have no idea what that means?
> >
> >
> Basically were you dropped in at the deep end not knowing how 
> to play, 
> or did you get a lot of help from the rest to develop your characters
>

 The first, and only, time I did some AD&D gaming was on a school excursion.
It was a Dragonlance module for the high clerics tower (?). Our DM wasn't
entirely forthcoming with the rules though. After the adventuring bit we had
to take an army each and defend the tower. Our DM had been playing the
character Raistlin and had said that if we needed his help to call for him.
My "army" was low on hit points so I called for his help. He told me that
NPCs had to be called within the first two rounds of combat. I wasn't too
happy about that since he never told us in advance.

 Allan



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 17:53:41 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Role-playing for Dummies
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On Monday, August 13, 2001, at 02:44 PM, John wrote:

> Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com> writes
>>
>>
>> Did you find pitfalls in the way you were introduced to the game ?
>>
>> I have no idea what that means?
>>
>>
> Basically were you dropped in at the deep end not knowing how to play, 
> or did you get a lot of help from the rest to develop your characters

I got some pointer.

>
>> I last played over a dozen years ago.  The original group includes one 
>> friend who's deceased, one living in Milwaukee, two living in Texas, 
>> one in Florida, one in Washington D.C., and one in Seattle.  Only five 
>> of us live anywhere near one another, and one of them has fallen out 
>> of touch with the other four over the years.
>
> Definitely time for a reunion :)

Seriously doubt it will ever happen.  Too many life changes for too many 
of us.  We're talking 20+ years since.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.

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Subject: Re: Food and Wine 
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From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Food and Wine 
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 21:59:29 -0500
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Not as long as we are all intent on buying his books...heck John
alone seems to bank role several of Ray's outings a year given the
number of books he has. :P

-James

> Ray? Broke?! :)

> >Not that I am a particular expert with the ladies, but I certainly
> >have found that being capible in the kitchen does keep them around
> >when one is less then steller in the bank's estimation (Not that Ray
> >seems to have that problem, but I'm broke).  I make pretty good food
> >when I set my mind to it.



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From: "Doopie Doo" <doopiedoopiedoo@hotmail.com>
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<snip>
>Be afraid.  You realize there is a possibility, though remote, that the
>Cubs could end up in the World Series this year.  Even more frightening,
>they could end up playing the Boston Red Sox.
<snip>

You mean hell is going to freeze over?

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So what is RF working on next??



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From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
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This tactic is called sniping, and it works best with a broadband (or some 
other type of real fast internet access), or with a properly bedded, free 
floating, scoped, mid to large caliber rifle.

Adieu

Jimmy

>From: John <john@crydee.com>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
>Subject: Re: Frustration
>Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 18:38:02 +0100
>
>David Christensen <damc84@hotmail.com> writes
>>Don't you just hate losing an auction? :) Chaosium's edition of
>>Midkemia Press' Carse was up for grabs, and I had been following the
>>auction for a week before putting in a bid three days before it ended
>>which I thought would make me a sure winner.
>
>You will find the same seller often has Carse, Cities and Tulan if it is
>who I think it is
>>It held out all right, right up until the final 45 minutes when someone
>>beat my bid by a dollar. I thought I was crazy, being ready to pay up
>>to 25 dollars for the module, but apparantly Carse is so hard to get
>>that people will be paying up to twice that amount???
>
>Its not hard to get, its tactics, You need to ignore it and only bid in
>the last few seconds, with what you are prepared to pay. (remember,
>interest generates interest). Unless the bidder is 'midkemia' when you
>may as well just give up <G>
>>Its frustrating (especially since it was the module that would make my
>>Midkemia Press RPG collection complete). Sorry, had to vent it out
>>somewhere :)
>
>Are you sure you have them all, check my site, and see if you have :)
>--
>John
>
>john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
>http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.
>
>Raymond E Feist Ring
>http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm
>


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From: "Alvaro Santos" <weretraira@hotmail.com>
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(snip)
>located. Right now teleportation only works with subatomic particles,

Does it already work? Last time I heard about teleportation, it was only 
theorically possible, but nobody could effectively test it.

Beers,
Alvaro

"Let us so live that when we come to die even the undertaker will be sorry."
Mark Twain




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On Tue, Aug 14, 2001 at 11:20:41AM -0300, Alvaro Santos wrote:
> (snip)
> >located. Right now teleportation only works with subatomic particles,
> 
> Does it already work? Last time I heard about teleportation, it was only 
> theorically possible, but nobody could effectively test it.
> 

It has been done. So far only with single photons but it does work.
I think the first successful experiments were done in '97 or '98.

For more information on this subject you can use Google to search for
"quantum teleportation." It should give several useful links.


-- 
<Insert your favourite quote here.>
Erik Trulsson
ertr1013@student.uu.se



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Subject: Re: OT: American Football
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 11:25:09 -0500
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From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT: American Football
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 11:25:09 -0500
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Hell freezes over every year, usually it stays frozen for a couple
of months, then thaws like any other place in a mid-latitude.  (For
those of you who don't know, Hell is actually a small city in
Michigan, USA).

<snip>

> You mean hell is going to freeze over?



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From: "Alvaro Santos" <weretraira@hotmail.com>
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Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 15:18:37 -0300
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> > Does it already work? Last time I heard about teleportation, it was only
> > theorically possible, but nobody could effectively test it.
> >
>
>It has been done. So far only with single photons but it does work.
>I think the first successful experiments were done in '97 or '98.
>
>For more information on this subject you can use Google to search for
>"quantum teleportation." It should give several useful links.
>
>
>--
><Insert your favourite quote here.>
>Erik Trulsson
>ertr1013@student.uu.se
>

Thanks a lot Erik! IŽll look forward for it!

Beers,
Alvaro

"Let us so live that when we come to die even the undertaker will be sorry."
Mark Twain



_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp



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--

On Tue, 14 Aug 2001 11:25:09  
 James Young wrote:
>Hell freezes over every year, usually it stays frozen for a couple
>of months, then thaws like any other place in a mid-latitude.  (For
>those of you who don't know, Hell is actually a small city in
>Michigan, USA).
>


Just imagine if you were in Quebec city.... :-) Here we say that Hell
would be better because at least it's warm :-)

PJ


Get 250 color business cards for FREE!
http://businesscards.lycos.com/vp/fastpath/



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Dr all on the list,
     Since Mr. Feist thinks i have read all of his books to many times would 
someone please give me some other authors to try or maybe Mr. Feist you 
could tell me some others who write in a similar fantasy category.  I thank 
all of you.
                                                 The God of the Halfmoon

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp



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From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Books
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 17:49:52 -0500
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    Didn't someone on this list comprise a comprehensive list of
suggested authors so that this question could be easily answered
(sans usual flamewar)?  I could have sworn I saw it on someone's
site (and it isn't PsiHawk's, though maybe a version should be
available there as well).

-James

(This may possibly be my last post for a while, I leave for
Cleveland and from there on to Toronto area early tomorrow morning)

----- Original Message -----
> Dr all on the list,
>      Since Mr. Feist thinks i have read all of his books to many times would
> someone please give me some other authors to try or maybe Mr. Feist you
> could tell me some others who write in a similar fantasy category. I thank
> all of you.
>                                                  The God of the Halfmoon



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From: "Chris R Hoffman" <krazyman@advnet.net>
To: "FEISTFAN E-mail list" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Honoured Enemy
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 21:03:28 -0400
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From: "Chris R Hoffman" <krazyman@advnet.net>
To: "FEISTFAN E-mail list" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
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Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 21:03:28 -0400
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Hello all. I have been lurking here for quite some time, and have enjoyed
some of people's comments.  I was wondering if you folks could help me out
though.  I went to order Honoured Enemy from Amazon.co.uk , but it would not
let me put in my home address here in Michigan. It kept telling me that I
had an invalid postal code.

Can anyone help?

Chris R Hoffman

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Alvaro Santos wrote:
> 
> > > Does it already work? Last time I heard about teleportation, it was only
> > > theorically possible, but nobody could effectively test it.
> > >
> >
> >It has been done. So far only with single photons but it does work.
> >I think the first successful experiments were done in '97 or '98.
> >
> >For more information on this subject you can use Google to search for
> >"quantum teleportation." It should give several useful links.
> 
> Thanks a lot Erik! IŽll look forward for it!
> 
> Beers,
> Alvaro

"electron tunneling" and "quantum tunneling" are also good search terms.



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At 07:27 AM 8/14/01 -0500, you wrote:
>So what is RF working on next??

Changing frequencies

Sorry, could not resist.

Larry



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Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 12:47:38 +0800
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From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Books
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 12:47:38 +0800
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It was on the webpage with the Feist Newsgroup Faq which is maintained
by lore, and this was compiled by newsgroup members.

http://users.power-net.net/~jeffjonaitis/feist/elis/f_faq.html#TQ-3_21

That takes you straight to the pertinent section in the FAQ with a whole
slew of authors Mr DragonKnight may wish to give a shot.

CW

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu 
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of James Young
> Sent: Wednesday, 15 August 2001 6:50 AM
> To: FEISTFANS-L
> Subject: Re: Books
> 
> 
>     Didn't someone on this list comprise a comprehensive list of
> suggested authors so that this question could be easily answered
> (sans usual flamewar)?  I could have sworn I saw it on someone's
> site (and it isn't PsiHawk's, though maybe a version should be
> available there as well).
> 
> -James
> 
> (This may possibly be my last post for a while, I leave for
> Cleveland and from there on to Toronto area early tomorrow morning)
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> > Dr all on the list,
> >      Since Mr. Feist thinks i have read all of his books to many
> times would
> > someone please give me some other authors to try or maybe Mr.
> Feist you
> > could tell me some others who write in a similar fantasy category.
> I thank
> > all of you.
> >                                                  The God of the
> Halfmoon
> 



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*** EOOH ***
From: KSimon67@aol.com
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 01:15:51 EDT
Subject: Re: Honoured Enemy
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In a message dated 8/14/2001 6:15:27 PM Pacific Daylight Time, 
krazyman@advnet.net writes:


> I was wondering if you folks could help me out though.  I went to order 
> Honoured Enemy from Amazon.co.uk , but it would not let me put in my home 
> address here in Michigan. It kept telling me that I had an invalid postal 
> code.
>  
> Can anyone help?
>   Chris R Hoffman
> 
> 

Chris,

I think the problem has to do with how you enter your address.  
If you do not enter your state properly, it will reject your "post code".

The line that asks for state/region/province needs to have the official US 
postal abbreviation.   If that doesn't work, try entering your state in the 
box that says "Address #2".

That's what worked for me.

Karl

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LAR <lds627@home.com> writes
>At 07:27 AM 8/14/01 -0500, you wrote:
>>So what is RF working on next??
>
>Changing frequencies
>
>Sorry, could not resist.
>
>Larry
>
Actually its quite appropriate, as Ray has said there should be twice as 
many books a year for a while :)
-- 
John

john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.

Raymond E Feist Ring
http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm



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Actually, there's a place called Hell in Norway, too. You can buy these 
neat postcards where the sun is setting, making the sky all red, and in the 
corner of the postcard, it says 'Greetings from Hell'. =)

Martin
----------
"If it be your will,
if there is a choice,
let the rivers fill,
let the hills rejoice" - Leonard Cohen

At 11:25 14.08.01 -0500, you wrote:
>Hell freezes over every year, usually it stays frozen for a couple
>of months, then thaws like any other place in a mid-latitude.  (For
>those of you who don't know, Hell is actually a small city in
>Michigan, USA).
>
><snip>
>
> > You mean hell is going to freeze over?



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I just finished GR Martin's third book, very great read. Now,
sometimes in those books there is mention of attraction toward young
girls of 10-12 years old, and this left me wondering. I'm not
questionning GR Martin in this, I guess he did it intentionaly because
it's something that was known to happen in medieval times. I also
think he did it to create revulsion inside the reader. Still.... I
can't for the life of me understand how grown men can be sooo
attracted to a young girl of 12 like Sansa Stark, or others. 

That's something I saw quite often in the fantasy genre, though I
don't remember seeing any in Ray's books. Young brides or groom in
weddings, I can understand it for reasons of state. Attraction are not
necessarily involved . But when you see a singer making songs over a
12 years old girl, wanting to bed her....nope, I don't get it.

PJ




Get 250 color business cards for FREE!
http://businesscards.lycos.com/vp/fastpath/



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Subject: Re: prose
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 10:00:16 -0300
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From: "Firesight" <wolfriderfiresight@hotmail.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: prose
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 10:00:16 -0300
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Hey, Firesight chimin in,

Yeah, I think Magician was quite different than Mr. Feist's newer
books.  The resons could possibly be related to the fact, that Ray
didn't know if he owuld sink or swim with Magician, and thus poured
everything he had into it.

Granted, I do not think it fair to compare a first work with the rest,
as a writer is stil growing, and tend to experiment with some ideas in
the course of their writing.  Whether such thoughts are planned or
spontaneious is beyond me at this time (oh, if I could read
minds...well, that woudl just be kinda cool...)

I like most of Ray's novels, but all on their own merits (the
Serpantwar Saga was my fave on the whole, though Magician has battles
for goodness against the whole series, all by itself!).

Anyany, here it is, and here I goooo....

*-) Firesight *-)

>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: Jason Martin 
>To: FEISTFANS-L 
>Sent: Friday, August 10, 2001 3:11 AM
>Subject: Re: prose
>
>
>That sort of depends... I thought Ray had more realistic characters in the Serpent war saga, plus Legacy is sort of based off of the games, so it needs to resemble somewhat like the games... Atleast that is how I thought of that.  I thought Tear of the Gods was a good book. It had tons of action in it and if it was anything like a movie, then I would say i was like the Mummy Returns with how action packed it is.  I like the Evil Temple in ToG though it made my back shiver in a few spots...
> 
>Jason
>>----- Original Message ----- 
>>From: C.T. Cusimano 
>>To: FEISTFANS-L 
>>Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2001 5:23 PM
>>Subject: prose
>>
>>
>>anyones thoughts on the change of the writing styles from magician to the legacy series?
>>the descriptions are more vibrant in magician imho.

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References: <E3A4AA1DA7B41849A632450233B5423A177E50@css01.css.com.au>
Subject: Re: Role-playing for Dummies
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From: "Firesight" <wolfriderfiresight@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re: Role-playing for Dummies
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 10:15:29 -0300
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Chiming in...

THe sign of a bad DM, is when they are not forthcoming with rules.  WOrse
yet, when they are not forthcoming with rules that they create, or rules
they choose to ignore.  Are you sure this one actually nkew the rules, and
simly wasn't making it all up?

Granted, making it all up, is a part of the fun.  However, if only that one
person is having *all the fun* then what kind of an experience is one
expected to have?  If you are a new player, not a good one.

As for meself, I wasn't allowed ot play D&D, until I moved out last
September.  Now I've met people here who play 3rd Edition, and it's great!
I'm back into my element again.  I started out as a play (halfing rogue
named Jarvis Feist *-).  However it was clear I didn't know the number, but
the DM was about as creative as a slice of white bread.  Thus he became my
numbers man, and I do the storytelling; I have yet to receive negative
praise for the group.

Pretty good, for only playing 2nd Ed. 2 and 3rd Ed. twice.  Since we started
a month ago, we've been on several adventures in Ferun, and my character is
a Level 4 Rogue.  I won't give away as *secret weapons*, and you'll just
have to guess <cackles wildly>  You'll never guess in a million year!

Well off I go again!  Lookin' forward to gaming this weekend.

*-) Firesight *-)

----- Original Message -----
From: "Allan Mills" <milla@css.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Monday, August 13, 2001 8:37 PM
Subject: RE: Role-playing for Dummies


>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: John [mailto:john@crydee.com]
> > Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2001 7:44 AM
> > To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > Subject: Re: Role-playing for Dummies
> >
> >
> > Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com> writes
> > >
> > >
> > >Did you find pitfalls in the way you were introduced to the game ?
> > >
> > >I have no idea what that means?
> > >
> > >
> > Basically were you dropped in at the deep end not knowing how
> > to play,
> > or did you get a lot of help from the rest to develop your characters
> >
>
>  The first, and only, time I did some AD&D gaming was on a school excursion.
> It was a Dragonlance module for the high clerics tower (?). Our DM wasn't
> entirely forthcoming with the rules though. After the adventuring bit we had
> to take an army each and defend the tower. Our DM had been playing the
> character Raistlin and had said that if we needed his help to call for him.
> My "army" was low on hit points so I called for his help. He told me that
> NPCs had to be called within the first two rounds of combat. I wasn't too
> happy about that since he never told us in advance.
>
>  Allan
>
>



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Subject: Re: OT: Roleplaying for Dummies
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From: "Firesight" <wolfriderfiresight@hotmail.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT: Roleplaying for Dummies
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 10:21:50 -0300
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Are you kinning me?

I teleport every weekend!

How you might ask?  Well you can ask, but that does mean I'm gonna tell Heh
Heh.

OK OK OK.  I'll share my secret, but promise not to tell Mr. Feist, or this
coudl get long and drawn out.

OK.  It involves me, the Female elf Sorceror/Ranger (actually it's my friend
ROb in a female personna), making a run to the Liquour Commission, and
returning with a flask of some magical substance.  Talking the flask and
examing the label, was see that it has the branding of "Fireball Whiskey."

Gotta go! <ZAP>

*-) Firesight *-)

----- Original Message -----
From: "Alan Kellogg" <mythusmage@cts.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Monday, August 13, 2001 4:38 AM
Subject: Re: OT: Roleplaying for Dummies


> >First of all, sorry for posting OT.
> >
> >We are three friends who would like to try playing a roleplaying
> >game. We've tried once before, but never really understood how it
> >works. That means we have no experience at all, at least none that
> >matters.
> >
> >What we're looking for is someone who could explain the basics for
> >us, kind of like a 'Roleplaying for Dummies', step-by-step beginners
> >guide in roleplaying. I've searched the web, but so far haven't
> >found anything useful, everywhere we turn some roleplaying
> >experience is required to understand what is being written/talked
> >about. The guy in the local RPG/Fantasy store gave us the 'If you
> >don't know already, why are you in this store'-look when we asked
> >him for an explanation or a step-by-step guide.
> >
> >We are aware of the vast scope of this topic and have no intention
> >of trying to learn it all at once, but feel like we have to start
> >somewhere.
> >
> >If anyone feels the calling, or have tips as on where to start
> >looking, reply to this mail off-list.
> >
> >With regards,
> >Torstein Litlaboe
>
> One thing that would really help would be knowing where you're
> located. Right now teleportation only works with subatomic particles,
> and weekly transcontinental flights can get expensive.
>
> Alan
> --
> _______
>
> Mythusmage.com, <http://www.mythusmage.com> at its new location!
>
> mailto:mythusmage@mythusmage.com
>
> ICQ: 103299329
>
>



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From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
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Subject: Re: troubling...and questionning
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On Wednesday, August 15, 2001, at 05:57 AM, Paddyjack [ ] wrote:

> I just finished GR Martin's third book, very great read. Now, sometimes 
> in those books there is mention of attraction toward young girls of 
> 10-12 years old, and this left me wondering. I'm not questionning GR 
> Martin in this, I guess he did it intentionaly because it's something 
> that was known to happen in medieval times. I also think he did it to 
> create revulsion inside the reader. Still.... I can't for the life of 
> me understand how grown men can be sooo attracted to a young girl of 12 
> like Sansa Stark, or others.
>
> That's something I saw quite often in the fantasy genre, though I don't 
> remember seeing any in Ray's books. Young brides or groom in weddings, 
> I can understand it for reasons of state. Attraction are not 
> necessarily involved . But when you see a singer making songs over a 12 
> years old girl, wanting to bed her....nope, I don't get it.
>
> PJ


When King Henry II died he was, if memory serves, 56 years old.  That 
was OLD by the current standards.  Mortality was such that anyone making 
it past 40 was doing well.

If George is positing his culture (I haven't read his fantasy, though 
I'm a fan of his earlier works like Armageddon Rag) along the lines of a 
medieval one, then he's spot on in his depiction.

10 might be a little young, unless the character is getting smitten 
about potential, or the girl is beginning puberty early.

Remember, in the US in my grandmother's time (she was born 12 years 
after the Civil War) girls were often engaged at 14 and married at 16.

A grown man can be attracted to a young girl for the simple reason he's 
genetically hard-wired to be.  Go to a beach in Southern California and 
some of the most amazing bodies down there are 15-16 year olds.  Now, a 
modern grown man will also recognize that it's 100% biological and 
physical and has nothing to do with an adult relationship, but the 
physical awareness will be there.

Why?  Because back when our ancestors were hunting antelopes across the 
plains of Africa, youth and health were powerful lures that gave you a 
better chance of siring offspring.  An older woman might be very 
attractive, but she didn't have as much chance of bringing a baby to 
term.   And most were in menopause by their late thirties. As soon as a 
girl entered puberty, she was a target for every male in the tribe.   
People today in more technologically primitive cultures in New Guinea or 
the Mato Grosso in Brazil, for example, often have marriage rites soon 
after puberty.

Just as women find strength and power attractive.  That can manifest 
itself in many ways, in different cultures, but it's still true.  The 22 
year old on a date with a middle age man is nothing unique and is 
partially explained by the above.

So, yes, women were often married off at 12-14 in medieval times and 
became mommies a year or so after.

Teen agers are a relatively new concept culturally.  In my grandmother's 
time, you got out of school at 16-18 and you got married.  You were a 
kid or you were an adult.  If you want some taste of that time, read the 
Anne of Green Gables stuff and see what happens to Anne and her 
classmates as soon as they got out of school.  They got jobs and got 
married.

Our modern sensibilities color our perceptions, and I write with that in 
mind, which is why Arutha and Anita were probably older by some than 
would have happened in historical Earth, but you get the point.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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From: Sean Fister <sean@itiseasy.com>
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At 09:03 PM 8/14/01, you wrote:<br>
>Hello all. I have been lurking here for quite some time, and have
>enjoyed some of people's comments.  I was wondering if you folks could
>help me out though.  I went to order Honoured Enemy from Amazon.co.uk
>, but it would not let me put in my home address here in Michigan. It
>kept telling me that I had an invalid postal code.
>
>Can anyone help?
>
>Chris R Hoffman

If you have an account at Amazon.com, you should be able to sign in
normally at amazon.co.uk.  I know the first time I went to order from
amazon.co.uk I was surprised to find out that my account info was
already there.  If you don't already have an Amazon.com account you
might try creating on over at Amazon.com first and then seeing if you
log in over at amazon.co.uk.

Sean Fister

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From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re: prose
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 11:08:19 -0400
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Legacy Series is based on a video game, the Riftwar Series is not. As such, 
it has to follow the storyline of the videogame. This, I think, puts certain 
restrictions on the book. All and all, I think he (Ray) did a great job of 
turning the games into novels.

Adieu

Jimmy


>From: "Firesight" <wolfriderfiresight@hotmail.com>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
>Subject: Re: prose
>Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 10:00:16 -0300
>
>Hey, Firesight chimin in,
>
>Yeah, I think Magician was quite different than Mr. Feist's newer books.  
>The resons could possibly be related to the fact, that Ray didn't know if 
>he owuld sink or swim with Magician, and thus poured everything he had into 
>it.
>
>Granted, I do not think it fair to compare a first work with the rest, as a 
>writer is stil growing, and tend to experiment with some ideas in the 
>course of their writing.  Whether such thoughts are planned or spontaneious 
>is beyond me at this time (oh, if I could read minds...well, that woudl 
>just be kinda cool...)
>
>I like most of Ray's novels, but all on their own merits (the Serpantwar 
>Saga was my fave on the whole, though Magician has battles for goodness 
>against the whole series, all by itself!).
>
>Anyany, here it is, and here I goooo....
>
>*-) Firesight *-)
>
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: Jason Martin
>   To: FEISTFANS-L
>   Sent: Friday, August 10, 2001 3:11 AM
>   Subject: Re: prose
>
>
>   That sort of depends... I thought Ray had more realistic characters in 
>the Serpent war saga, plus Legacy is sort of based off of the games, so it 
>needs to resemble somewhat like the games... Atleast that is how I thought 
>of that.  I thought Tear of the Gods was a good book. It had tons of action 
>in it and if it was anything like a movie, then I would say i was like the 
>Mummy Returns with how action packed it is.  I like the Evil Temple in ToG 
>though it made my back shiver in a few spots...
>
>   Jason
>     ----- Original Message -----
>     From: C.T. Cusimano
>     To: FEISTFANS-L
>     Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2001 5:23 PM
>     Subject: prose
>
>
>     anyones thoughts on the change of the writing styles from magician to 
>the legacy series?
>     the descriptions are more vibrant in magician imho.
>
>


_________________________________________________________________
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--

On Wed, 15 Aug 2001 06:55:44  
 Raymond Feist wrote:
>
`<snip>
>
>A grown man can be attracted to a young girl for the simple reason he's 
>genetically hard-wired to be.  Go to a beach in Southern California and 
>some of the most amazing bodies down there are 15-16 year olds.  Now, a 
>modern grown man will also recognize that it's 100% biological and 
>physical and has nothing to do with an adult relationship, but the 
>physical awareness will be there.
>
>Why?  Because back when our ancestors were hunting antelopes across the 
>plains of Africa, youth and health were powerful lures that gave you a 
>better chance of siring offspring.  An older woman might be very 
>attractive, but she didn't have as much chance of bringing a baby to 
>term.   And most were in menopause by their late thirties. As soon as a 
>girl entered puberty, she was a target for every male in the tribe.   
>People today in more technologically primitive cultures in New Guinea or 
>the Mato Grosso in Brazil, for example, often have marriage rites soon 
>after puberty.
>
>Just as women find strength and power attractive.  That can manifest 
>itself in many ways, in different cultures, but it's still true.  The 22 
>year old on a date with a middle age man is nothing unique and is 
>partially explained by the above.
>
>So, yes, women were often married off at 12-14 in medieval times and 
>became mommies a year or so after.
>

<snip>

>Our modern sensibilities color our perceptions, and I write with that in 
>mind, which is why Arutha and Anita were probably older by some than 
>would have happened in historical Earth, but you get the point.
>
>Best, R.E.F.


Thanx Ray for the comment, it's appreciated to have a writer's point
of view on this. I think your explanations make sense, especially when
you talk about potential to give kids. It is often stressed how much
having a son was important for any highborn families, and it's true
that starting sooner will maybe give more chances :-) And now that you
mention this I recall that women with larger hips are favored in
Martin's books for the same childbearing reasons.

Like you said, my modern perception blocked my understanding of that concept :-) 

PJ




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From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Honoured Enemy
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 11:12:17 -0400
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From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Honoured Enemy
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 11:12:17 -0400
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Do you have an account with Amazon.com? I do, and so when I signed on to 
Amazon.co.uk, as soon as I entered my password, it new who I was so I did 
not even have to enter my address, I just clicked on my address that was 
already saved from the Amazon.com account. You could try that.

Adieu

Jimmy


>From: KSimon67@aol.com
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
>Subject: Re: Honoured Enemy
>Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 01:15:51 EDT
>
>In a message dated 8/14/2001 6:15:27 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
>krazyman@advnet.net writes:
>
>
> > I was wondering if you folks could help me out though.  I went to order
> > Honoured Enemy from Amazon.co.uk , but it would not let me put in my 
>home
> > address here in Michigan. It kept telling me that I had an invalid 
>postal
> > code.
> >
> > Can anyone help?
> >   Chris R Hoffman
> >
> >
>
>Chris,
>
>I think the problem has to do with how you enter your address.
>If you do not enter your state properly, it will reject your "post code".
>
>The line that asks for state/region/province needs to have the official US
>postal abbreviation.   If that doesn't work, try entering your state in the
>box that says "Address #2".
>
>That's what worked for me.
>
>Karl
>


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From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re: troubling...and questionning
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One thing to keep in mind about old age is to remember that although average 
lifespans were much shorter, people did not turn old, grey, wrinkly, and die 
at 40 years old. It is an average. Many women died during childbirth or 
shortly thereafter. Also, without modern medicine and hygine to keep away 
and cure diseases and infections, people often succumbed to colds, flus, 
infected cuts, and the like, that most people today wouldn't worry about. 
The younger you are the more susceptibe you are to these types of things so 
with the numbers of children and babies that die, the average lifespan drops 
quickly.

This is why you see many people even in antiquity (eg Socrates) who live to 
normal old age (70's) by today's standards and it is not really a big deal. 
Hell, it took Hemlock to bring him down! He was still going strong.

Adieu

Jimmy


>From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
>Subject: Re: troubling...and questionning
>Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 06:55:44 -0700
>
>
>On Wednesday, August 15, 2001, at 05:57 AM, Paddyjack [ ] wrote:
>
>>I just finished GR Martin's third book, very great read. Now, sometimes
>>in those books there is mention of attraction toward young girls of
>>10-12 years old, and this left me wondering. I'm not questionning GR
>>Martin in this, I guess he did it intentionaly because it's something
>>that was known to happen in medieval times. I also think he did it to
>>create revulsion inside the reader. Still.... I can't for the life of
>>me understand how grown men can be sooo attracted to a young girl of 12
>>like Sansa Stark, or others.
>>
>>That's something I saw quite often in the fantasy genre, though I don't
>>remember seeing any in Ray's books. Young brides or groom in weddings,
>>I can understand it for reasons of state. Attraction are not
>>necessarily involved . But when you see a singer making songs over a 12
>>years old girl, wanting to bed her....nope, I don't get it.
>>
>>PJ
>
>
>When King Henry II died he was, if memory serves, 56 years old.  That
>was OLD by the current standards.  Mortality was such that anyone making
>it past 40 was doing well.
>
>If George is positing his culture (I haven't read his fantasy, though
>I'm a fan of his earlier works like Armageddon Rag) along the lines of a
>medieval one, then he's spot on in his depiction.
>
>10 might be a little young, unless the character is getting smitten
>about potential, or the girl is beginning puberty early.
>
>Remember, in the US in my grandmother's time (she was born 12 years
>after the Civil War) girls were often engaged at 14 and married at 16.
>
>A grown man can be attracted to a young girl for the simple reason he's
>genetically hard-wired to be.  Go to a beach in Southern California and
>some of the most amazing bodies down there are 15-16 year olds.  Now, a
>modern grown man will also recognize that it's 100% biological and
>physical and has nothing to do with an adult relationship, but the
>physical awareness will be there.
>
>Why?  Because back when our ancestors were hunting antelopes across the
>plains of Africa, youth and health were powerful lures that gave you a
>better chance of siring offspring.  An older woman might be very
>attractive, but she didn't have as much chance of bringing a baby to
>term.   And most were in menopause by their late thirties. As soon as a
>girl entered puberty, she was a target for every male in the tribe.
>People today in more technologically primitive cultures in New Guinea or
>the Mato Grosso in Brazil, for example, often have marriage rites soon
>after puberty.
>
>Just as women find strength and power attractive.  That can manifest
>itself in many ways, in different cultures, but it's still true.  The 22
>year old on a date with a middle age man is nothing unique and is
>partially explained by the above.
>
>So, yes, women were often married off at 12-14 in medieval times and
>became mommies a year or so after.
>
>Teen agers are a relatively new concept culturally.  In my grandmother's
>time, you got out of school at 16-18 and you got married.  You were a
>kid or you were an adult.  If you want some taste of that time, read the
>Anne of Green Gables stuff and see what happens to Anne and her
>classmates as soon as they got out of school.  They got jobs and got
>married.
>
>Our modern sensibilities color our perceptions, and I write with that in
>mind, which is why Arutha and Anita were probably older by some than
>would have happened in historical Earth, but you get the point.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
>stupidity.
>


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp



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From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
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Thank you for the insight on the Greater Gods. The info availible on
the FAQ's left me a bit confused but they make more sense to me now. I
have 3 more questions on the races as well.

1. With the two blind gods of the beginning out of the picture, who do
the nonhuman races, (eg. Elves, Dwarves, Goblins, Trolls, Dragons, and
Kobolds/Gnomes) on Midkemia worship?


No idea.  Never was an issue in the game, so I never bothered to think
about it for the books.

    Ok, this leads me to my last question about the gods. I know the elves 
do not worship the human lesser gods as you have mentioned that in your 
books. However, does your answer mean that the other races worship there own 
pantheons apart from the human gods, and you do not know the names of the 
gods that the the elves (and other races) worship, or do you mean you have 
no idea who, or what, if anything, that the other races worship?

    Also, which part of Tith-Onanka is the joyful warrior and which part is 
the Planner of Battels.

Thanks for your time.

Jimmy

_________________________________________________________________
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Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 08:48:07 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
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On Wednesday, August 15, 2001, at 08:05 AM, Paddyjack [ ] wrote:

>
>
> Thanx Ray for the comment, it's appreciated to have a writer's point of 
> view on this. I think your explanations make sense, especially when you 
> talk about potential to give kids. It is often stressed how much having 
> a son was important for any highborn families, and it's true that 
> starting sooner will maybe give more chances :-) And now that you 
> mention this I recall that women with larger hips are favored in 
> Martin's books for the same childbearing reasons.
>
> Like you said, my modern perception blocked my understanding of that 
> concept :-)

Also, remember there was a terribly high mortality rate back then.  A 
lot of stillborn births, children dying before age twelve, etc.

Having lots of kids meant a few made it to adulthood.

Again, using the example of Henry II, he lost three sons, including 
Henry (who would have been Henry III had he lived) leaving behind three 
others, Richard, Geoffery, and John.

Best, R.e.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 08:53:27 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
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On Wednesday, August 15, 2001, at 08:25 AM, James Silva wrote:

> One thing to keep in mind about old age is to remember that although 
> average lifespans were much shorter, people did not turn old, grey, 
> wrinkly, and die at 40 years old. It is an average. Many women died 
> during childbirth or shortly thereafter. Also, without modern medicine 
> and hygine to keep away and cure diseases and infections, people often 
> succumbed to colds, flus, infected cuts, and the like, that most people 
> today wouldn't worry about. The younger you are the more susceptibe you 
> are to these types of things so with the numbers of children and babies 
> that die, the average lifespan drops quickly.
>
> This is why you see many people even in antiquity (eg Socrates) who 
> live to normal old age (70's) by today's standards and it is not really 
> a big deal. Hell, it took Hemlock to bring him down! He was still going 
> strong.
>

Not entirely true.  A septegenarian was rare, and worthy of comment.  A 
fifty year old was a senior citizen by those standards.  The average was 
low, as was the means.

And people did turn old and grey at forty, unless they were nobles.  The 
lifestyle was punishing.  You worked from dawn to dusk and "days of 
rest" were few and far between.

Best, R.E.F.

   ----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 08:55:22 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
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On Wednesday, August 15, 2001, at 08:34 AM, James Silva wrote:

>

>    Ok, this leads me to my last question about the gods. I know the 
> elves do not worship the human lesser gods as you have mentioned that 
> in your books. However, does your answer mean that the other races 
> worship there own pantheons apart from the human gods, and you do not 
> know the names of the gods that the the elves (and other races) 
> worship, or do you mean you have no idea who, or what, if anything, 
> that the other races worship?
>

Religion among non-humans never played a part in the game.  There was no 
thought given to separate pantheons.

>    Also, which part of Tith-Onanka is the joyful warrior and which part 
> is the Planner of Battels.

Tith is the planner of battles.  Onanka is the joyful warrior.

Best, R.E.F.

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Subject: Re: troubling...and questionning
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Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 17:17:14 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Andrea J Chee <andrea@bloodaxe.com>
Subject: Re: troubling...and questionning
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In article <OGKAFFKJNCHNEAAA@mailcity.com>, Paddyjack [ ]
<erykel@lycos.com> writes

> I think your explanations make sense, especially when you talk about 
>potential to give kids. It is often stressed how much having a son was important 
>for any highborn families, and it's true that starting sooner will maybe give 
>more chances :-) 

Having lots of kids was even more important to poorer families than
nobles. Their infant mortality rate was even higher than that of noble
families, and they weren't just after one son, but as many kids as
possible. In an age when there were no pensions and no social security,
making provision for when you could no longer work meant having as many
kids as possible to do the work and to look after you. So you started
having them as soon as possible, and then kept going - women spent much
of their reproductive lives producing children.

This remains the case in many places - parts of India and the Far East,
for example. Even in the West, it wasn't that long ago when security
meant having as many kids as possible. My grandmother was one of 14
children, 5 of whom survived to farm the croft. By contrast, my mother
was born to the same crofting lifestyle, but was one of 4 children, all
of whom survived. It's probably worth noting that between my
grandmother's birth and that of my mother, the use of penicillin became
widespread, doctors were more common, pensions were increasingly
accessible and the National Health Service came into being.

- ANDREA

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From: STEPHEN M RUSSELL <smrussel@email.unc.edu>
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Subject: HE Thoughts, some angrier than others
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Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 13:12:58 -0400 (EDT)
From: STEPHEN M RUSSELL <smrussel@email.unc.edu>
To: feistfans-l@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: HE Thoughts, some angrier than others
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No spoilers in this message, just honest opinions.

I enjoyed reading HE, as I enjoy reading all of Ray's books.  But it
definitly was not up to par with his earlier novels.  The story was
interesting, and I liked how the details of a kingdom military unit were
fleshed out - something I've always wanted to read about.  However, I
detected many "issues" that perhaps resulted from the
collaboration.  First and foremost was the talk of Elven "senses."  Ray
explained the origin of this in the manuscript, but I still felt that it
strayed too much from what we know.  Also, the talk of Kingdom soldiers
having "blood debts" was unlike anything we've read about before.  Also, I
noticed several places where conversations seemed to change way too
abruptly, didn't have any reasoning, or there were other noticeable
continuity issues.

Even more troubling, however, was the huge number of spelling and
punctuation errors (relatively speaking).  Ray's recent books have shown a
lack of polish in this area, and HE is the worst of the bunch.  It starts
almost immediately with the damn/damp hair typo, and there are many other
similar mistakes.  Also, there were missing punctuation marks at times
(mainly commas).  I get pretty insulted when, upon shelling out $30 for a
hardcover (since I bought it from amazon.uk), I find I have bought
something so full of errors - especially errors that result from nothing
more than laziness.  I am not sure who to blame for the mess.  Ray doesn't
handle the publishing aspects, but as the author I still think of him as
the "final authority."  Likewise, the publishing company is the one
actually making the mistakes.

So what should I do?  Punish the publishing company by not buying their
books, punish the author by not buying his books, or neither?  The answer
is "nothing," because I enjoy Ray's books so much that I would always buy
them in hardcover, to last longer, and that makes me even more upset,
because it puts the loyal consumer in a lose-lose situation.

To conclude, buy HE, because its a fun read.  Its no Magician or Shadow,
but its worth the time and money.  Just be prepared to try to figure out
what the authors are saying some times, and ignore some other minor
niggles.

Steve Russell
Editor, Carolina Review



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Subject: Re: HE Thoughts, some angrier than others
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 19:30:56 +0200
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Magnus Arvidsson" <magnus.arvidsson75@telia.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: HE Thoughts, some angrier than others
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 19:30:56 +0200
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Please, Mr Russel, feel free to explain the distinction, what separates
your opinions from spoilers if they DO contain information about a NEW
book that some (me for instance) haven't read yet? In the fututre please
put spoliers on all posts that contain these kinds of opinions.
I might be a bit touchy about this.. but even small hints create
major imaginative thinking on my part... =)












> No spoilers in this message, just honest opinions.
> 
> I enjoyed reading HE, as I enjoy reading all of Ray's books.  But it
> definitly was not up to par with his earlier novels.  The story was
> interesting, and I liked how the details of a kingdom military unit were
> fleshed out - something I've always wanted to read about.  However, I
> detected many "issues" that perhaps resulted from the
> collaboration.  First and foremost was the talk of Elven "senses."  Ray
> explained the origin of this in the manuscript, but I still felt that it
> strayed too much from what we know.  Also, the talk of Kingdom soldiers
> having "blood debts" was unlike anything we've read about before.  Also, I
> noticed several places where conversations seemed to change way too
> abruptly, didn't have any reasoning, or there were other noticeable
> continuity issues.
> 
> Even more troubling, however, was the huge number of spelling and
> punctuation errors (relatively speaking).  Ray's recent books have shown a
> lack of polish in this area, and HE is the worst of the bunch.  It starts
> almost immediately with the damn/damp hair typo, and there are many other
> similar mistakes.  Also, there were missing punctuation marks at times
> (mainly commas).  I get pretty insulted when, upon shelling out $30 for a
> hardcover (since I bought it from amazon.uk), I find I have bought
> something so full of errors - especially errors that result from nothing
> more than laziness.  I am not sure who to blame for the mess.  Ray doesn't
> handle the publishing aspects, but as the author I still think of him as
> the "final authority."  Likewise, the publishing company is the one
> actually making the mistakes.
> 
> So what should I do?  Punish the publishing company by not buying their
> books, punish the author by not buying his books, or neither?  The answer
> is "nothing," because I enjoy Ray's books so much that I would always buy
> them in hardcover, to last longer, and that makes me even more upset,
> because it puts the loyal consumer in a lose-lose situation.
> 
> To conclude, buy HE, because its a fun read.  Its no Magician or Shadow,
> but its worth the time and money.  Just be prepared to try to figure out
> what the authors are saying some times, and ignore some other minor
> niggles.
> 
> Steve Russell
> Editor, Carolina Review
> 



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From: "Joseph A. Benckert" <jbenckert@jersey.net>
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Subject: Re: HE Thoughts, some angrier than others (possible spoilers)
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Joseph A. Benckert" <jbenckert@jersey.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: HE Thoughts, some angrier than others (possible spoilers)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 14:08:17 -0400
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I agree completely.  Not including the Empire Series, the novels that have
been subject to outside influence (game based novels, and the newest
collaboration) have not been nearly as intriguing and have been of poorer
quality than the rest.

I can't wait for the next "pure" Feist novel.  I hope to see a strong return
to the kind of novel that pushed me to spend money on every single book that
Ray has written.

Don't get me wrong, though.  I will still shell out my cash on anything that
has Ray's name on it.  I strongly believe that reading for enjoyment gets no
better than Ray Feist.

Several of the fans have expressed opinions like this in the past.  What is
your view on the newest novels Ray?  How do you feel they compare, in
overall quality, to your other works?

Joey

----- Original Message -----
From: "STEPHEN M RUSSELL" <smrussel@email.unc.edu>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <feistfans-l@cornell.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2001 1:12 PM
Subject: HE Thoughts, some angrier than others


> No spoilers in this message, just honest opinions.
>
> I enjoyed reading HE, as I enjoy reading all of Ray's books.  But it
> definitly was not up to par with his earlier novels.  The story was
> interesting, and I liked how the details of a kingdom military unit were
> fleshed out - something I've always wanted to read about.  However, I
> detected many "issues" that perhaps resulted from the
> collaboration.  First and foremost was the talk of Elven "senses."  Ray
> explained the origin of this in the manuscript, but I still felt that it
> strayed too much from what we know.  Also, the talk of Kingdom soldiers
> having "blood debts" was unlike anything we've read about before.  Also, I
> noticed several places where conversations seemed to change way too
> abruptly, didn't have any reasoning, or there were other noticeable
> continuity issues.
>
> Even more troubling, however, was the huge number of spelling and
> punctuation errors (relatively speaking).  Ray's recent books have shown a
> lack of polish in this area, and HE is the worst of the bunch.  It starts
> almost immediately with the damn/damp hair typo, and there are many other
> similar mistakes.  Also, there were missing punctuation marks at times
> (mainly commas).  I get pretty insulted when, upon shelling out $30 for a
> hardcover (since I bought it from amazon.uk), I find I have bought
> something so full of errors - especially errors that result from nothing
> more than laziness.  I am not sure who to blame for the mess.  Ray doesn't
> handle the publishing aspects, but as the author I still think of him as
> the "final authority."  Likewise, the publishing company is the one
> actually making the mistakes.
>
> So what should I do?  Punish the publishing company by not buying their
> books, punish the author by not buying his books, or neither?  The answer
> is "nothing," because I enjoy Ray's books so much that I would always buy
> them in hardcover, to last longer, and that makes me even more upset,
> because it puts the loyal consumer in a lose-lose situation.
>
> To conclude, buy HE, because its a fun read.  Its no Magician or Shadow,
> but its worth the time and money.  Just be prepared to try to figure out
> what the authors are saying some times, and ignore some other minor
> niggles.
>
> Steve Russell
> Editor, Carolina Review
>
>



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 11:32:01 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: HE Thoughts, some angrier than others (possible spoilers)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On Wednesday, August 15, 2001, at 11:08 AM, Joseph A. Benckert wrote:
>


[snip]

>
> Several of the fans have expressed opinions like this in the past.  
> What is
> your view on the newest novels Ray?  How do you feel they compare, in
> overall quality, to your other works?

By it's very nature, the above is an impertinent question.

It assumes that I judge my works "better/worse," or some other fashion.

Every book is the product of hard work.

If you're not happy with the results of one compared to another, so be 
it.

But don't ask me to judge one work lacking quality compared to another.

Results, yes, because some stories are more attractive to some readers 
than another.

But never quality.

It's insulting.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.

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To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
References: <200108151831.f7FIVqR03262@smtp1.san.rr.com>
Subject: Re: HE Thoughts, some angrier than others (possible spoilers)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 14:47:12 -0400
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From: "Joseph A. Benckert" <jbenckert@jersey.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: HE Thoughts, some angrier than others (possible spoilers)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 14:47:12 -0400
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My intention was not to be insulting and please accept my apologies.

You, then, do not judge your works in such a way? Do you judge or compare
them at all to the other novels?  Or should I just put a cork in it because
as I write these questions I feel like I'm digging myself into a hole.

No offense intended Ray.

Joey

----- Original Message -----
>From: Raymond Feist
>To: FEISTFANS-L
>Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2001 2:32 PM
>Subject: Re: HE Thoughts, some angrier than others (possible spoilers)
>
>
>On Wednesday, August 15, 2001, at 11:08 AM, Joseph A. Benckert wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>[snip]
>
>
>
>Several of the fans have expressed opinions like this in the past. What is
>your view on the newest novels Ray? How do you feel they compare, in
>overall quality, to your other works?
>
>
>By it's very nature, the above is an impertinent question.
>
>It assumes that I judge my works "better/worse," or some other fashion.
>
>Every book is the product of hard work.
>
>If you're not happy with the results of one compared to another, so be it.
>
>But don't ask me to judge one work lacking quality compared to another.
>
>Results, yes, because some stories are more attractive to some readers than
>another.
>
>But never quality.
>
>It's insulting.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
>stupidity.
>
>

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Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 11:59:58 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: HE Thoughts, some angrier than others (possible spoilers)
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On Wednesday, August 15, 2001, at 11:47 AM, Joseph A. Benckert wrote:

> My intention was not to be insulting and please accept my apologies.
>
> You, then, do not judge your works in such a way? Do you judge or 
> compare
> them at all to the other novels?  Or should I just put a cork in it 
> because
> as I write these questions I feel like I'm digging myself into a hole.
>
> No offense intended Ray.

Each work is judged solely on how close I got to what I intended.  
Magician, Darkness, and Servant got as close to what I wanted as any 
books I've written. Prince of the Blood and Krondor the Betrayal didn't 
get as close to what I wanted as I would have liked.  Honored Enemy got 
very close to what I wanted, so from my point of view, it was a success.

Some people, however, do not like 100% military stories, so they will 
find that book less enjoyable.

But when you use the word "quality" it gets into an area no writer I 
know will go.  Every work has my best effort in it, and if it comes up 
short in the mind of the reader, so be it.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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From: "Doug Triplett, Superhero in Training !!!" <trippy@dougtriplett.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
References: <200108151859.f7FIxmR05837@smtp1.san.rr.com>
Subject: Rays writing, & SerpentWar Saga
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From: "Doug Triplett, Superhero in Training !!!" <trippy@dougtriplett.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Rays writing, & SerpentWar Saga
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 15:50:50 -0400
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Hello, I'm delurking for a moment. Its has been a while since I have wrote
the list but I thought I would comment on this topic.

Ray is right. No one is going to like everything that an author writes or is
in a genre. And we need to remember that.

As far as the quality of Ray's writing goes I have liked the changes in it.
I feel that his writing have matured over the years. We have seen a shift
for huge events with characters flowing through then. To Characters that
have big events happening around them.

While Ray has always done a good job deveolping his characters and their
backgrounds I feel that his more recent novels have really made the
characters shine even more so than the events. Yes we have a huge Riftwar in
the SW saga but were the books about the War or Eric and Rue.

I like the novels changing in this way. If an author wrote the same way and
about the same things all the time I would stop reading them. Doing this
over and over would make the writing like the romance (little r not Romance
like Ray writes) novels that sell the same story over and over. (Or a robert
Jordan novel that hasn't moved the story forward in 3 books)

So in conclusion, Ray, keep trying new things. I'll keep buying if you keep
writing.

Doug Triplett



>
> Each work is judged solely on how close I got to what I intended.
> Magician, Darkness, and Servant got as close to what I wanted as any
> books I've written. Prince of the Blood and Krondor the Betrayal didn't
> get as close to what I wanted as I would have liked.  Honored Enemy got
> very close to what I wanted, so from my point of view, it was a success.
>
> Some people, however, do not like 100% military stories, so they will
> find that book less enjoyable.
>
> But when you use the word "quality" it gets into an area no writer I
> know will go.  Every work has my best effort in it, and if it comes up
> short in the mind of the reader, so be it.
>
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
>
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
> stupidity.
>



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From: "Theresa Roden" <lady_hoby@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: troubling...and questionning
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From: "Theresa Roden" <lady_hoby@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re: troubling...and questionning
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>I'm not questionning GR Martin in this, I guess he did it intentionaly 
>because it's something that was known to happen in medieval times. I also 
>think he did it to create revulsion inside the reader. Still.... I can't 
>for the life of me understand how grown men can be sooo attracted to a 
>young girl of 12 like Sansa Stark, or others.

It is an historical fact that arranged marriages could take place with the 
bride as young as 8 yrs. old.  During Queen Elizabeth I's time, Lord Henry 
Hastings was 18 when he wed Katharine Dudley, who was 8 at the time of the 
marriage.  The marriage was not consummated until she was old enough to bear 
children, but it was a legal fact that she was married at 8.

Theresa


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From: "Theresa Roden" <lady_hoby@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re: troubling...and questionning
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According to the family tree for the Hoby family, there was an female who 
lived to be 103 years old.  This during the 1500's, and in the Fernley 
family tree (Anne Fernley married Sir Thomas Gresham) there are records of 
people living to be 90+.

Average ages are just that--the average of all peole in a given area added 
together and the total divided by the number of people in the group.

Theresa



>>One thing to keep in mind about old age is to remember that although 
>>average lifespans were much shorter, people did not turn old, grey, 
>>wrinkly, and die at 40 years old. It is an average. Many women died during 
>>childbirth or shortly thereafter. Also, without modern
>>medicine and hygine to keep away and cure diseases and infections, people 
>>often succumbed to colds, flus, infected cuts, and the like, that most 
>>people today wouldn't worry about. The younger you are the more susceptibe 
>>you are to these types of things so with the numbers of children and babies 
>>that die, the average lifespan drops quickly.
>>
>>This is why you see many people even in antiquity (eg Socrates) who live 
>>to normal old age (70's) by today's standards and it is not really a big 
>>deal. Hell, it took Hemlock to bring him down! He was still going strong.
>
>Not entirely true.  A septegenarian was rare, and worthy of comment.  A 
>fifty year old was a senior citizen by those standards.  The average was 
>low, as was the means.
>
>And people did turn old and grey at forty, unless they were nobles. The 
>lifestyle was punishing.  You worked from dawn to dusk and "days of rest" 
>were few and far between.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>
>   ----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
>stupidity.
>


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Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 16:28:06 -0400
From: "Paddyjack [ ]" <erykel@lycos.com>
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On Wed, 15 Aug 2001 15:50:50  
 Doug Triplett, Superhero in Training !!! wrote:
>Hello, I'm delurking for a moment. Its has been a while since I have wrote
>the list but I thought I would comment on this topic.
>
>Ray is right. No one is going to like everything that an author writes or is
>in a genre. And we need to remember that.
>
>As far as the quality of Ray's writing goes I have liked the changes in it.
>I feel that his writing have matured over the years. We have seen a shift
>for huge events with characters flowing through then. To Characters that
>have big events happening around them.
>
>While Ray has always done a good job deveolping his characters and their
>backgrounds I feel that his more recent novels have really made the
>characters shine even more so than the events. Yes we have a huge Riftwar in
>the SW saga but were the books about the War or Eric and Rue.
>
>I like the novels changing in this way. If an author wrote the same way and
>about the same things all the time I would stop reading them. Doing this
>over and over would make the writing like the romance (little r not Romance
>like Ray writes) novels that sell the same story over and over. (Or a robert
>Jordan novel that hasn't moved the story forward in 3 books)
>


I agree with that. A good exemple of improving writing over the years
is one of my favorite author, Guy Gavriel Kay. He started with a very
good trilogy a la Lord of the Rings, and over the years magic took
less and less place from book to book to put more place in character
development and plot. Magic's fans may be frustrated by that, but his
books are so brillant now that it is worth the loss of magic. His last
serie "Sarantine mosaic" shine so much I was close to tears when I
finished it. I wanted to read it all over again.

Of course, some changes are not appreciated, and it will happen that
some readers doesn't like it. There are always people against progress
:-)

PJ


Get 250 color business cards for FREE!
http://businesscards.lycos.com/vp/fastpath/



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Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 13:35:32 -0700
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Subject: Re: troubling...and questionning
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Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 13:35:32 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: troubling...and questionning
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On Wednesday, August 15, 2001, at 01:24 PM, Theresa Roden wrote:

> According to the family tree for the Hoby family, there was an female 
> who lived to be 103 years old.  This during the 1500's, and in the 
> Fernley family tree (Anne Fernley married Sir Thomas Gresham) there are 
> records of people living to be 90+.
>
> Average ages are just that--the average of all peole in a given area 
> added together and the total divided by the number of people in the 
> group.
>


It's not just average age.  It's mean age and median age as well.  Those 
who survived childhood often died before 40 from infectious diseases.  
The potential for life is the same now as then; we just have a hell of a 
lot better nutrition and medical care.  In MY childhood (and I'm only 
55) most people died in their sixties.  Men usually from heart failure 
or stroke.  We know why, now, and a huge portion of the population is 
making it in to their 80's and 90's.  We have more centenarians than any 
time in recorded history.

My kids stand a fair chance of living to see the 22nd Century if they 
take care of their health.

Someone who made it to 100 years of age in the sixteenth century had one 
thing above all, luck.  To live a hundred years and not get a splinter 
that turned septic or come down with pneumonia or cholera or the plague 
or die from starvation or exposure is just plain good luck.

Best, R.E.F.

----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.

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From: "Michael Gibson" <gibbyfish@yahoo.com>
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Subject: RE: HE Thoughts, some angrier than others
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 22:00:08 +0100
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From: "Michael Gibson" <gibbyfish@yahoo.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: HE Thoughts, some angrier than others
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 22:00:08 +0100
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> No spoilers in this message, just honest opinions.
>
> I enjoyed reading HE, as I enjoy reading all of Ray's books.  But it
> definitly was not up to par with his earlier novels.  The story was
> interesting, and I liked how the details of a kingdom military unit were
> fleshed out - something I've always wanted to read about.  However, I
> detected many "issues" that perhaps resulted from the
> collaboration.  First and foremost was the talk of Elven "senses."  Ray
> explained the origin of this in the manuscript, but I still felt that it
> strayed too much from what we know.  Also, the talk of Kingdom soldiers
> having "blood debts" was unlike anything we've read about before.

It is true that we've never heard of these blood debts, but it is also true that
we've never had a book like this, based around a conventional (i.e. not the new
army of Erik and Roo's era) - in my opinion up until HE, it was undefined.

Also, with the elven senses comment, I got the impression that the majority of
what was presented to us was a result of Tinuva's beginnings of becoming a
Spellweaver, and the bond of brotherhood.  I know, there were parts when run off
the mill moredhel had the "senses", but if feel this was another undefined
subject until then in the books - never before have we had solid descriptions,
apart from "elves have good eyesight", or whatever.

> Also, I
> noticed several places where conversations seemed to change way too
> abruptly, didn't have any reasoning, or there were other noticeable
> continuity issues.
>
> Even more troubling, however, was the huge number of spelling and
> punctuation errors (relatively speaking).  Ray's recent books have shown a
> lack of polish in this area, and HE is the worst of the bunch.  It starts
> almost immediately with the damn/damp hair typo, and there are many other
> similar mistakes.  Also, there were missing punctuation marks at times
> (mainly commas).  I get pretty insulted when, upon shelling out $30 for a
> hardcover (since I bought it from amazon.uk), I find I have bought
> something so full of errors - especially errors that result from nothing
> more than laziness.  I am not sure who to blame for the mess.  Ray doesn't
> handle the publishing aspects, but as the author I still think of him as
> the "final authority."  Likewise, the publishing company is the one
> actually making the mistakes.

Regrettably, early editions of books do have typographic errors in them - but
I've never come across any in Ray's works (HE included) that have prevented me
from reading what is actually meant to be there.  Hey, even if there were, we
have the man himself here to ask.

> So what should I do?  Punish the publishing company by not buying their
> books, punish the author by not buying his books, or neither?  The answer
> is "nothing," because I enjoy Ray's books so much that I would always buy
> them in hardcover, to last longer, and that makes me even more upset,
> because it puts the loyal consumer in a lose-lose situation.
>
> To conclude, buy HE, because its a fun read.  Its no Magician or Shadow,
> but its worth the time and money.  Just be prepared to try to figure out
> what the authors are saying some times, and ignore some other minor
> niggles.

But do we buy books because we feel the need for paper and ink, or do we buy the
book for the story inside.  I plumb for the story - the text is just a means to
an end.


_________________________________________________________
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Sorry folks - I didn't realise I was still dialled up, and that last email went
off without me knowing.  Please append a HE spoiler to it.

I also forgot to put my name to the thing.

Sorry guys,
Mike,
Gibfish of the West.
                                          Check out my forums at:
"If a problem appears simple, then it     http://www.tonrae.co.uk/forums/
probably hasn't been thought through."


_________________________________________________________
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I just re-read Prince of the Blood and I must say that Suli is now one of my 
favourite characters. He seems like Nakor when he was a young boy, or at 
least has the same mindset of Nakor. Not really a question, just a comment.

K. Griffith

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Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 10:04:43 +1000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: Raymond Feist [mailto:raymond@bittersea.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2001 11:56 PM
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Subject: Re: troubling...and questionning
> 
> 
> 
> Why?  Because back when our ancestors were hunting antelopes 
> across the 
> plains of Africa, youth and health were powerful lures that 
> gave you a 
> better chance of siring offspring.  An older woman might be very 
> attractive, but she didn't have as much chance of bringing a baby to 
> term.   And most were in menopause by their late thirties. As 
> soon as a 
> girl entered puberty, she was a target for every male in the tribe.   
> People today in more technologically primitive cultures in 
> New Guinea or 
> the Mato Grosso in Brazil, for example, often have marriage 
> rites soon 
> after puberty.
> 
 I do recall from what they taught me at school that the Romans used to
marry just after puberty. They would have a few years together and then the
husband would be conscripted into the army for some amount of years. My
memory is a bit fuzzy on the number of years involved but the basic theory
was marry young and reproduce young 'cause there's a good chance of dying
young.

 Allan

.
> 
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
> 
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be 
> explained away by 
> stupidity.
> 
> 



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Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 10:30:52 +1000 (GMT+1000)
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From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: troubling...and questionning
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Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 10:30:52 +1000 (GMT+1000)
From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: troubling...and questionning
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> I just finished GR Martin's third book, very great read. Now, sometimes in those books there is mention of attraction toward young girls of 10-12 years old, and this left me wondering. I'm not questionning GR Martin in this, I guess he did it intentionaly because it's something that was known to happen in medieval times. I also think he did it to create revulsion inside the reader. Still.... I can't for the life of me understand how grown men can be sooo attracted to a young girl of 12 like Sansa Stark, or others.

<apologies for the mail formatting>


Martin obviously has used "The War of the Roses" as an infulence for his
books.

> That's something I saw quite often in the fantasy genre, though I don't remember seeing any in Ray's books. Young brides or groom in weddings, I can understand it for reasons of state. Attraction are not necessarily involved . But when you see a singer making songs over a 12 years old girl, wanting to bed her....nope, I don't get it.
>
> PJ
>
>
>
>
> Get 250 color business cards for FREE!
> http://businesscards.lycos.com/vp/fastpath/
>
>

Thanks
Darragh
-=-=
www.iamtheporkfireman.com
[Email]: s356179@student.uq.edu.au [ICQ]: 114283262



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From: "Alvaro Santos" <weretraira@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re: troubling...and questionning
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From: "Alvaro Santos" <weretraira@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re: troubling...and questionning
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 21:31:56 -0300
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>as a
>girl entered puberty, she was a target for every male in the tribe.
>People today in more technologically primitive cultures in New Guinea or
>the Mato Grosso in Brazil, for example, often have marriage rites soon
>after puberty.

Ray, even in the most primitive (sub)cultures of Brazil, a marriage with 
young 12 years-old girls arent common. I guess only very few tribes of 
natives of Xingu (Amazonia) still have this kind of rite.

But I am surprised that you do know about the existence of Mato Grosso's 
state here. Outside Cattle and the "Pantanal" there isnt much more to see 
there. <g>

Just updating data about my humble country :-)

p.s.: jokes apart, the "Pantanal" is one of the most beautyful places of the 
world. I recommend it.

Beers,
Alvaro

"Let us so live that when we come to die even the undertaker will be sorry."
Mark Twain


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp



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From: "Donna M. Jaggard" <donna@arwen.org>
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> Martin obviously has used "The War of the Roses" as an infulence for
> his books.

Indeed he has, and he's said so publically many times. 

http://www.westeros.org is a great website for info on his books. 
Great books, too. Although I really have to stop getting interested 
in series before they're over. I *hate* waiting for the next book! :) 

-d

--
Donna M. Jaggard   |   http://www.arwen.org/
donna@arwen.org    |   http://www.web-goddess.net/
"I stopped believing in Santa Claus when my mother took 
me to see him in a department store, and he asked for my 
autograph."                            -- Shirley Temple 



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From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
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Subject: Re: HE Thoughts, some angrier than others (possible spoilers)
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From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: HE Thoughts, some angrier than others (possible spoilers)
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> I agree completely.  Not including the Empire Series, the novels that have
> been subject to outside influence (game based novels, and the newest
> collaboration) have not been nearly as intriguing and have been of poorer
> quality than the rest.
> I can't wait for the next "pure" Feist novel.  I hope to see a strong return
> to the kind of novel that pushed me to spend money on every single book that
> Ray has written.
> Don't get me wrong, though.  I will still shell out my cash on anything that
> has Ray's name on it.  I strongly believe that reading for enjoyment gets no
> better than Ray Feist.
> Several of the fans have expressed opinions like this in the past.  What is
> your view on the newest novels Ray?  How do you feel they compare, in
> overall quality, to your other works?
> Joey

I really liked HE. Especially the Tinuva/Bovai conflict.

I think many fans are missing the point, the stoires of Midkemia (in all
its glory) belong to Ray, and therefore he should be able to write
whatever he damn well pleases. And, if fans are always going to buy his
books, why should he change aspects to please his fans? For example, If
you compare David Eddings Belgaraid/Mallorean series to his Elenium/Tamuli
series, underneath they're the exact same story, however since Mr Eddings
has come up with a perfectly workable fantasy formula, he'll keep flogging
it till its dead, and good on him, the stories are great, and I'll keep
reading them.

What I'm trying to get at is, many readers think of themselves as the #1
critic. Maybe they should try writing a book, and see how damn hard it is.

Thanks
Darragh
-=-=
www.iamtheporkfireman.com
[Email]: s356179@student.uq.edu.au [ICQ]: 114283262



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In the case of Sasa, I think it is more because the guy's a bit nuts
about losing her mother all those years ago to Ned Stark.  And for
other cases I think it is more about the power and prestige (and
money) of marrying into good families.  The girl is largely irrelevent
to the whole process, just a means to an end.

On Wed, 15 August 2001, Darragh Murray wrote:

> 
> > I just finished GR Martin's third book, very great read. Now, sometimes in those books there is mention of attraction toward young girls of 10-12 years old, and this left me wondering. I'm not questionning GR Martin in this, I guess he did it intentionaly because it's something that was known to happen in medieval times. I also think he did it to create revulsion inside the reader. Still.... I can't for the life of me understand how grown men can be sooo attracted to a young girl of 12 like Sansa Stark, or others.
> 
> <apologies for the mail formatting>
> 
> 
> Martin obviously has used "The War of the Roses" as an infulence for his
> books.
> 
> > That's something I saw quite often in the fantasy genre, though I don't remember seeing any in Ray's books. Young brides or groom in weddings, I can understand it for reasons of state. Attraction are not necessarily involved . But when you see a singer making songs over a 12 years old girl, wanting to bed her....nope, I don't get it.
> >
> > PJ
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Get 250 color business cards for FREE!
> > http://businesscards.lycos.com/vp/fastpath/
> >
> >
> 
> Thanks
> Darragh
> -=-=
> www.iamtheporkfireman.com
> [Email]: s356179@student.uq.edu.au [ICQ]: 114283262



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--

>I really liked HE. Especially the Tinuva/Bovai conflict.
>
>I think many fans are missing the point, the stoires of Midkemia (in all
>its glory) belong to Ray, and therefore he should be able to write
>whatever he damn well pleases. And, if fans are always going to buy his
>books, why should he change aspects to please his fans? For example, If
>you compare David Eddings Belgaraid/Mallorean series to his Elenium/Tamuli
>series, underneath they're the exact same story, however since Mr Eddings
>has come up with a perfectly workable fantasy formula, he'll keep flogging
>it till its dead, and good on him, the stories are great, and I'll keep
>reading them.>


Well, you see, in the case of Eddings I stopped buying his books for
exactly that reason. Same story over and over. :-)
This said, you're right about Ray being the boss, and I enjoy every
lines he writes. Even his messages are well written :-) So he can
write whatever he please and I won't say a word.


>What I'm trying to get at is, many readers think of themselves as the #1
>critic. Maybe they should try writing a book, and see how damn hard it is.

Here I want to point out that readers are not writers indeed. However,
they *are* readers. I don't know about you, but I know exactly what I
like or dislike in a book/story, and if the writer is not doing it,
well I'm perfectly right not to like it. 

In conclusion, you can't please everyone when writing a story :-)

PJ






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From: "Philippe Dufour" <toledes@hotmail.com>
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Subject: OT - Crydee.org - Owner
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Hey everyone.

Don't know if it could interest anyone, but the owner of crydee.org is a 
certain Stephen Morrisson, from Australia. The email address he let was 
rebmalin@iname.com.

Hope this lift some mystery about the new page and sorry for the OT.
Philippe D.

====
"1500 years ago, we thought we were the Center of the Universe.
500 years ago, we thought the Earth was flat.
Just imagine what you'll know tomorrow."


_________________________________________________________________
Téléchargez MSN Explorer gratuitement à l'adresse 
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*** EOOH ***
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Sorry, I didn't realise there was any interest otherwise I would have
owned up. :)  No web page though, just use it for email.

Cheers

Stephen

On Wed, 15 August 2001, "Philippe Dufour" wrote:

> 
> Hey everyone.
> 
> Don't know if it could interest anyone, but the owner of crydee.org is a 
> certain Stephen Morrisson, from Australia. The email address he let was 
> rebmalin@iname.com.
> 
> Hope this lift some mystery about the new page and sorry for the OT.
> Philippe D.
> 
> ====
> "1500 years ago, we thought we were the Center of the Universe.
> 500 years ago, we thought the Earth was flat.
> Just imagine what you'll know tomorrow."
> 
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Téléchargez MSN Explorer gratuitement à l'adresse 
> http://explorer.msn.fr/intl.asp



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Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 20:41:53 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
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On Wednesday, August 15, 2001, at 08:17 PM, Stephen Morrison wrote:

> Sorry, I didn't realise there was any interest otherwise I would have 
> owned up. :)  No web page though, just use it for email.
>
> Cheers
>
> Stephen
>
Just a touch of concern from one John B, owner of crydee.com.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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From: LAR <lds627@home.com>
Subject: Re: HE Thoughts, some angrier than others (possible spoilers)
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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu, <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
From: LAR <lds627@home.com>
Subject: Re: HE Thoughts, some angrier than others (possible spoilers)
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You know, I find the original statement and ones I have seen similarly made 
about other books, POB, the Krondor series, etc. more than a bit off 
putting. To me they have always been a sign that the reader was expecting 
the same old thing, slightly rehashed and disappointed that they did not 
get it. In no case have I ever seen a statement which shows that Ray's 
writing quality has degenerated. I can see somebody saying, I did not like 
this story as much as the others, or I didn't like these characters, etc. 
But in the many years I have been reading Ray's book, I have never failed 
to find the story well paced, tightly written and and filled with great 
dialogue and deep characterization.

I have found cases of course, such as in the Krondor books that were based 
on the game, where I can FEEL the restraints Ray was working under. In the 
sense there are many cases that were reflecting the game action, where I 
believe from previous readings he may have handled it differently. This is 
particularly true of K:TB which was based on BAK.

I am now reading HE and enjoying it thoroughly. I personally find that it 
adds new dimensions to the original riftwar saga. There are some sections 
where I can be fairly sure that Ray wrote most if not all of it, others 
where I am equally sure Bill wrote it and some where it is hard to tell 
where one began and the other left off. I will likely ask some questions 
about that on a separate header. Just the same, I am enjoying it quite a 
bit and glad to see Ray have the opportunity to expand his horizons as a 
writer.

My point in the above is this, it is OK to say that you did not LIKE a 
particular story, or that you prefer some books to others. (I.E. I like 
Heinlein's Future history much more than his others). But unless you can 
point out a specific degeneration in style and effort, it is completely out 
of line to say somebody did a lousy job.

Larry


At 02:47 PM 8/15/01 -0400, Joseph A. Benckert wrote:
>My intention was not to be insulting and please accept my apologies.
>
>You, then, do not judge your works in such a way? Do you judge or compare
>them at all to the other novels?  Or should I just put a cork in it because
>as I write these questions I feel like I'm digging myself into a hole.
>
>No offense intended Ray.
>
>Joey
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Raymond Feist
>To: FEISTFANS-L
>Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2001 2:32 PM
>Subject: Re: HE Thoughts, some angrier than others (possible spoilers)
>
>
>On Wednesday, August 15, 2001, at 11:08 AM, Joseph A. Benckert wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>[snip]
>
>
>
>Several of the fans have expressed opinions like this in the past. What is
>your view on the newest novels Ray? How do you feel they compare, in
>overall quality, to your other works?
>
>
>By it's very nature, the above is an impertinent question.
>
>It assumes that I judge my works "better/worse," or some other fashion.
>
>Every book is the product of hard work.
>
>If you're not happy with the results of one compared to another, so be it.
>
>But don't ask me to judge one work lacking quality compared to another.
>
>Results, yes, because some stories are more attractive to some readers than
>another.
>
>But never quality.
>
>It's insulting.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
>stupidity.



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From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: OT - Crydee.org - Owner
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 17:53:06 +1000 (GMT+1000)
From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: OT - Crydee.org - Owner
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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I know of Step[hen Morrison.

He used to run a BBS in Brisbane called "Sorceror's Isle", which had
forums for fantasy discussion.

A BBS I used to frequent.

> Hey everyone.
>
> Don't know if it could interest anyone, but the owner of crydee.org is a
> certain Stephen Morrisson, from Australia. The email address he let was
> rebmalin@iname.com.
>
> Hope this lift some mystery about the new page and sorry for the OT.
> Philippe D.
>
> ====
> "1500 years ago, we thought we were the Center of the Universe.
> 500 years ago, we thought the Earth was flat.
> Just imagine what you'll know tomorrow."
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Téléchargez MSN Explorer gratuitement à l'adresse
> http://explorer.msn.fr/intl.asp
>
>

Thanks
Darragh
-=-=
www.iamtheporkfireman.com
[Email]: s356179@student.uq.edu.au [ICQ]: 114283262



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From: "Stephen Morrison" <rebmalin@crydee.org>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: OT - Crydee.org - Owner
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 18:17:27 +1000
Message-ID: <ICEHJNLEKHPHEMPILICNMEHPCKAA.rebmalin@crydee.org>
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*** EOOH ***
X-Sent: 16 Aug 2001 08:17:10 GMT
From: "Stephen Morrison" <rebmalin@crydee.org>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: OT - Crydee.org - Owner
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 18:17:27 +1000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

That was a long time ago now, I don't live in Brissy any more. :)  I
remember you too now, thought I recognised the name.

-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Darragh Murray
>Sent: Thursday, 16 August 2001 5:53 PM
>To: FEISTFANS-L
>Subject: Re: OT - Crydee.org - Owner
>
>
>
>I know of Step[hen Morrison.
>
>He used to run a BBS in Brisbane called "Sorceror's Isle", which had
>forums for fantasy discussion.
>
>A BBS I used to frequent.
>
>> Hey everyone.
>>
>> Don't know if it could interest anyone, but the owner of crydee.org is a
>> certain Stephen Morrisson, from Australia. The email address he let was
>> rebmalin@iname.com.
>>
>> Hope this lift some mystery about the new page and sorry for the OT.
>> Philippe D.
>>
>> ====
>> "1500 years ago, we thought we were the Center of the Universe.
>> 500 years ago, we thought the Earth was flat.
>> Just imagine what you'll know tomorrow."
>>
>>
>> _________________________________________________________________
>> Téléchargez MSN Explorer gratuitement à l'adresse
>> http://explorer.msn.fr/intl.asp
>>
>>
>
>Thanks
>Darragh
>-=-=
>www.iamtheporkfireman.com
>[Email]: s356179@student.uq.edu.au [ICQ]: 114283262
>


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From: "Sonia Tabe" <sonia@nt-tech.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Slightly OT: Auctions.
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 20:34:02 +0930
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*** EOOH ***
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: "Sonia Tabe" <sonia@nt-tech.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Slightly OT: Auctions.
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 20:34:02 +0930
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

For anyone at all interested... And I don't want to get into any trouble by
someone complaining about spoilers. I don't consider it so, but just in
case. It contains characters you might not of yet read about...


S*P*O*I*L*E*R S*P*A*C*E


Arutha ConDoin sold his original movie poster of Gone With the Wind (to
Darius Letsgettham) and his Black and White Television.

Calis sold his pink and yellow Lava Lamp and pink and blue Patio Furniture.

Jimmy the Hand sold Anita ConDoin's wedding dress (For $1,000) his brand new
2 room cubbyhouse.

Macros the Black sold his Mozart's Violin, in excellent condition but minus
the bow. Unfortunately he found no bidders for his genuine moon rock or Bo
Peep's sheep.

Pug of Crydee sold his Model Train Set with hand painted minatures and his
stylish black and chrome filing cabinet.

And

Poor Tomas couldn't sell his sterling silver signet ring.

And

Crysania the Cleric sold her limited edition, author signed copy of original
print Magician. (For $450,000)


If you're thinking Huh? I don't blame you.
Welcome to my Auction Database for school. Fingers crossed for a passing
grade. I thought you might like a laugh and so I shared it with you. Have a
Nice Day =D

~Sonia Tabe

*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
Est Sularis Oth Mithas



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From: "Paddyjack [ ]" <erykel@lycos.com>
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From: "Paddyjack [ ]" <erykel@lycos.com>
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Well, as I mentionned here I'm a fan of GRR Martin's serie "A song of
fire and Ice", as many people here. When I started the serie, it was
thought to be 4 books..... then yesterday I saw it would be 5
books. So I went deeper and found that it could even be 7 books
(fitting considering the 7 kingdoms, 7 gods etc).....

IMO, considering the way book 3 finished, that serie could be finished
in two books maximum. I'm now fearing another WoT syndrome, "extend
the serie the most you can". That would be a sad thing if it happens.

But maybe I'm wrong. Maybe the next 4 books will be as exciting as the
first 3. But somehow, I doubt it.

PJ


Get 250 color business cards for FREE!
http://businesscards.lycos.com/vp/fastpath/



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References: <Pine.OSF.4.30.0108161036110.21860-100000@student.uq.edu.au>
Subject: Collaborations
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From: "Calvin Shouldnt" <calvinshouldnt@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Collaborations
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 13:54:36 +0100
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Personally, I'm not too keen on collaboration books. It seems that there are
so many unpopular fantasy authors that want to collaborate with Mr Feist,
just so they can get their name spotted and become popular. That's just
lazy. They know REF has loads of fans and are trying to cash in on this.



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On Thursday, August 16, 2001, at 05:54 AM, Calvin Shouldnt wrote:

> Personally, I'm not too keen on collaboration books. It seems that 
> there are
> so many unpopular fantasy authors that want to collaborate with Mr 
> Feist,
> just so they can get their name spotted and become popular. That's just
> lazy. They know REF has loads of fans and are trying to cash in on this.
>
>

And the above is about as ignorant and ill-informed an observation as 
I've heard so far on the subject.

These authors are not "unpopular."  They are writers of serious talent 
with significant followings of their own.  Joel Rosenberg has been 
writing a bit longer than I.  Bill and Steve have very fine bodies of 
work.

They agreed to collaborate with me because they thought the projects 
would be fun.

No one is trying to "cash in" on anything.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
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Subject: Re: Collaborations
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 23:11:45 +0930
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*** EOOH ***
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: "Sonia Tabe" <sonia@nt-tech.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Collaborations
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 23:11:45 +0930
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I agree with Mr. Feist here. I mean, that's an unfair way of putting things.
You don't collaborate with someone if you think that their work is not up to
your standards. And yes, everyone has a form of that. Obviously Mr. Feist
felt that it was a good thing in collaborating with other authors. Look how
it turned out. I know that I'll look in our public library to see if I can
see any works by William Forstchen.

~Sonia




----- Original Message -----
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 10:37 PM
Subject: Re: Collaborations


>
> On Thursday, August 16, 2001, at 05:54 AM, Calvin Shouldnt wrote:
>
> > Personally, I'm not too keen on collaboration books. It seems that
> > there are
> > so many unpopular fantasy authors that want to collaborate with Mr
> > Feist,
> > just so they can get their name spotted and become popular. That's just
> > lazy. They know REF has loads of fans and are trying to cash in on this.
> >
> >
>
> And the above is about as ignorant and ill-informed an observation as
> I've heard so far on the subject.
>
> These authors are not "unpopular."  They are writers of serious talent
> with significant followings of their own.  Joel Rosenberg has been
> writing a bit longer than I.  Bill and Steve have very fine bodies of
> work.
>
> They agreed to collaborate with me because they thought the projects
> would be fun.
>
> No one is trying to "cash in" on anything.
>
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
>
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
> stupidity.
>



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Subject: Re: Collaborations
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From: "James Barker" <heechee@softhome.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Collaborations
Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 00:11:32 +1000
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----- Original Message -----
From: Calvin Shouldnt <calvinshouldnt@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 10:54 PM
Subject: Collaborations


> Personally, I'm not too keen on collaboration books. It seems that there are
> so many unpopular fantasy authors that want to collaborate with Mr Feist,
> just so they can get their name spotted and become popular. That's just
> lazy. They know REF has loads of fans and are trying to cash in on this.
>

Well well well, if it isn't Calvin, the regular feistfans-l troll, who seems
to think that changing the last name on his Hotmail account will give him a
new identity... Here's a hint, Calvin: if you changed your entire name, it
might work better. At the very least, don't use a last name like "Shouldnt,"
"Mustnt," "Cant," "Wont," etc....

Anybody care to bet how long this incarnation will last before being booted?
I give him about a week.

Calvin, why don't you actually try and be a constructive member of the list
for once?

Cheers,
James "Sick and tired of this retard Calvin" Barker

P.S. Dan, maybe you could boot him straightaway, and save us all a lot of
hassle?



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From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: Collaborations
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 15:33:32 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: Collaborations
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Hiya,

Before everyone gets /too/ uptight about what Calvin said, 
remember, this is Calvin.  He has a history here, in case
his name doesn't ring a bell... you can search the archives
for his various incarnations (under Calvin_must@hotmail.com
commencing 27 Mar 2000, booted 1 Jun 2000 by the admin after
posting off-color humor that was disrespectful to women.  
Under Calvinmusnt@hotmail.com, commencing 30 Oct 2000, booted
19 Apr 2001 by the admin or possibly just left after being
kill-filed by a large portion of the list-land.

Using his past emails as reference, he should be between
13 and 15 years old, and he tended towards taking a lot 
of innocuous stuff as being a) hostile and b) directed at 
him.  Very adversarial kid, too, but didn't understand why
he was getting strongly worded emails back after his posts.

How you been Calvin, anyway.  Last time you left you weren't 
too happy with life.  Things turn around for you?

*humor*
Oh yeah, and he has "friends" that like to send homo-erotic
jpg's to people they've never met... ;-> What, Calvin?  You
thought I'd let you forget that one?
*/humor*

rip



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Subject: Re: Collaborations
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Magnus Arvidsson" <magnus.arvidsson75@telia.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Collaborations
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 16:37:11 +0200
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Reply to the troll Calvin: Have you read any of Janny Wurts
novels? If you have you MIGHT recognize her talent and then 
MAYBE understand why ray chose to do a collaboration with her.
I bet Ray will get as good company with the new co-writers
as he got while working with Janny.

Ray, go boy! I'm still waiting for my copy of Honored Enemy..
and the read will, as allways, be great! Thank you in advance.

cheers, Magnus

> 
> On Thursday, August 16, 2001, at 05:54 AM, Calvin Shouldnt wrote:
> 
> > Personally, I'm not too keen on collaboration books. It seems that 
> > there are
> > so many unpopular fantasy authors that want to collaborate with Mr 
> > Feist,
> > just so they can get their name spotted and become popular. That's just
> > lazy. They know REF has loads of fans and are trying to cash in on this.
> >
> >
> 
> And the above is about as ignorant and ill-informed an observation as 
> I've heard so far on the subject.
> 
> These authors are not "unpopular."  They are writers of serious talent 
> with significant followings of their own.  Joel Rosenberg has been 
> writing a bit longer than I.  Bill and Steve have very fine bodies of 
> work.
> 
> They agreed to collaborate with me because they thought the projects 
> would be fun.
> 
> No one is trying to "cash in" on anything.
> 
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
> 
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
> stupidity.
> 



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From: dl24@cornell.edu (Daniel R Lorey)
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Subject: ADMIN: Re: Collaborations
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*** EOOH ***
From: dl24@cornell.edu (Daniel R Lorey)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 11:06:22 -0400 (EDT)
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
cc: dl24@cornell.edu (Daniel R Lorey)
Subject: ADMIN: Re: Collaborations
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On Tue, 17 Jul 2001, James Barker wrote:

> Anybody care to bet how long this incarnation will last before being booted?
> I give him about a week.

  Didn't take nearly that long. Calvin's on the "one strike, you're out"
plan. Indeed, of all the addresses on the list's "Ignore" list, he is
responsible for over half of them. Kind of sad, really. Especially since
I'm sure he'll sign up for yet another free Hotmail account and will
be right back on the list.

  Dan Lorey - Feistfans-l List Owner



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From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Collaborations
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 23:10:23 +0800
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*** EOOH ***
From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Collaborations
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 23:10:23 +0800
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You'll be waiting a while for that book, perhaps you might want to look
into Honoured Enemy in the mean time :)

CW

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu 
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Magnus Arvidsson
> Sent: Thursday, 16 August 2001 10:37 PM
> To: FEISTFANS-L
> Subject: Re: Collaborations


<snip>

> Ray, go boy! I'm still waiting for my copy of Honored Enemy..

<chop>



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*** EOOH ***
From: dl24@cornell.edu (Daniel R Lorey)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 12:28:04 -0400 (EDT)
To: feistfans-l@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Testing
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Dear List Members,

  I've received a few reports of odd things happening with the list today. 
I know they've been working on the list and email servers and that there
were some problems with the list servers earlier this week. If this
makes it to the list, then today's problems have probably been cleared 
up.

  Dan Lorey - Feistfans-L List Owner



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From: Larry Siegel <larry@psihawk.com>
Subject: HE from amazon.co.uk
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Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 12:35:27 -0400
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Larry Siegel <larry@psihawk.com>
Subject: HE from amazon.co.uk
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Ya know....

As strange/scary as this may be....

HE is costing me 13.94 GPB with shipping and handling which came out to about
$19.70 yesterday.  Hardcovers in the US usually run about $25-$30 now... 
plus tax....

So I am getting HE shipped to me from the UK for cheaper then I could pick 
up the US
version even if it were available.

That was just an observation.....

Now an actual question.. as this will actually be the first 'import' book 
I've gotten.
I know the covers are different from the US editions, but are there any 
textual differences
in HE  b/c it will be the British edition? (hoping the question came out 
right)...

Thanks... 



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Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 12:44:18 -0400 (EDT)
From: Christopher Adam Manley <amanley@host.ptbo.igs.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RiftMUSH: Interest in helping out?
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


Hey everyone -- it has been awhile since I last posted, as I tend to only
post about RiftMUSH related things.  RiftMUSH has been in limbo for
awhile, and currently we're working at opening the doors again .. but, we
need some support.

First thing first -- you don't really need to have MUSHing experience to
contact me about this.  It would be swell if you did, but its not a big
concern.

Second thing ... I'm looking for some people who want to help out by doing
some planning, writing and creating.  Bascially, we're building up a base
of characters (such as a novel would have) and giving them a certain
amount of life -- backgrounds, descriptions, family and friends.  All of
whom will eventually be played by players, based in the town of Crydee.

If you don't know much about MUSHes at all, this may seem a bit vague --
but if you're interested in doing some writing, let me know.  And there is
more too, but that's a good starting point ...

Third thing -- I wouldn't mind having someone who is a book guru on board.
We have one administrator who is strong in theme right now, but another
wouldn't hurt.  Things like trying to build an apt town of Crydee would be
high on the list ... like, getting the proper layout, as well as the
novels allow.

That's about it.  I'd rather you didn't reply to the list OR to this email
address.  Contact me at radez@ironglove.com  and I'll get it much sooner.
I don't look at this email account terribly often.

Thanks,
Christopher Adam Manley

-- And, yeah, RiftMUSH is run with REF's permission, and has been around
in various forms for quite a number of years.



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From: "Donna M. Jaggard" <donna@arwen.org>
Organization: arwen.org
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Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 09:43:44 -0700
Subject: Re: HE from amazon.co.uk
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From: "Donna M. Jaggard" <donna@arwen.org>
Organization: arwen.org
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 09:43:44 -0700
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> Ya know....
> 
> As strange/scary as this may be....
> 
> HE is costing me 13.94 GPB with shipping and handling which came out
> to about $19.70 yesterday.  Hardcovers in the US usually run about
> $25-$30 now... plus tax....

I ordered HE from amazon.co.uk the day before it went on half 
price. I was most disappointed. So, I emailed them and asked if 
they could do anything about it. And, yay me, they credited my 
visa 9GPB! (and were very careful to tell me that this isn't standard 
practice, but was a gesture of "good will". Well, *I* appreciate it!) 

-d
--
Donna M. Jaggard   |   http://www.arwen.org/
donna@arwen.org    |   http://www.web-goddess.net/
"I require three things in a man. He must be 
handsome, ruthless and stupid." - Dorothy Parker

 



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From: "Paddyjack [ ]" <erykel@lycos.com>
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*** EOOH ***
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Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 12:51:17 -0400
From: "Paddyjack [ ]" <erykel@lycos.com>
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 Ok, I just read something that temper my doubts about the future of
the serie. Next book will be set 5 years from the end of the third
book. So now, I'm seeing it more like a fresh start, since many
characters will have grown up over their
abilities/functions/relationships, and this will surely bring new
plots in the serie.

The future does't look so dark anymore...Great :-)

PJ

--

On Thu, 16 Aug 2001 07:13:01  
 Paddyjack [ ] wrote:
>Well, as I mentionned here I'm a fan of GRR Martin's serie "A song of fire and Ice", as many people here. When I started the serie, it was thought to be 4 books..... then yesterday I saw it would be 5 books. So I went deeper and found that it could even be 7 books (fitting considering the 7 kingdoms, 7 gods etc).....
>
>IMO, considering the way book 3 finished, that serie could be finished in two books maximum. I'm now fearing another WoT syndrome, "extend the serie the most you can". That would be a sad thing if it happens.
>
>But maybe I'm wrong. Maybe the next 4 books will be as exciting as the first 3. But somehow, I doubt it.
>
>PJ
>
>
>Get 250 color business cards for FREE!
>http://businesscards.lycos.com/vp/fastpath/
>
>


Get 250 color business cards for FREE!
http://businesscards.lycos.com/vp/fastpath/



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Subject: Re: HE from amazon.co.uk
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From: "Andrew Scott" <a.sc0tt@home.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: HE from amazon.co.uk
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 09:54:39 -0700
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry Siegel" <larry@psihawk.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 9:35 AM
Subject: HE from amazon.co.uk

> Now an actual question.. as this will actually be the first 'import' book
> I've gotten.
> I know the covers are different from the US editions, but are there any
> textual differences
> in HE  b/c it will be the British edition? (hoping the question came out
> right)...
>
> Thanks...
>
They like to add unnecessary U's to lots of words (honour, colour) but I
think that's it.



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From: "Donna M. Jaggard" <donna@arwen.org>
Organization: arwen.org
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 09:55:34 -0700
Subject: Re: HE from amazon.co.uk
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From: "Donna M. Jaggard" <donna@arwen.org>
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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 09:55:34 -0700
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> > Now an actual question.. as this will actually be the first 'import'
> > book I've gotten. I know the covers are different from the US
> > editions, but are there any textual differences in HE  b/c it will
> > be the British edition? (hoping the question came out right)...
> >
> > Thanks...
> >
> They like to add unnecessary U's to lots of words (honour, colour) but
> I think that's it.

And of course a lot of calling people wankers... and you'll have to 
pretend they're all talking with an accent. :)

-d


--
Donna M. Jaggard   |   http://www.arwen.org/
donna@arwen.org    |   http://www.web-goddess.net/
"I stopped believing in Santa Claus when my mother took 
me to see him in a department store, and he asked for my 
autograph."                            -- Shirley Temple 



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Subject: Re: HE from amazon.co.uk
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Darren McClung" <d@dwmc.org>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: HE from amazon.co.uk
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 12:27:34 -0500
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Man, the price must have come down.  I bought mine from Amazon.co.uk a week
ago, and the total was about 28$USD.

American exports must have pushed the book over Amazon's deep discount
threshhold.

Darren

> Ya know....
>
> As strange/scary as this may be....
>
> HE is costing me 13.94 GPB with shipping and handling which came out to about
> $19.70 yesterday.  Hardcovers in the US usually run about $25-$30 now...
> plus tax....
>
> So I am getting HE shipped to me from the UK for cheaper then I could pick
> up the US
> version even if it were available.
>
> That was just an observation.....
>
> Now an actual question.. as this will actually be the first 'import' book
> I've gotten.
> I know the covers are different from the US editions, but are there any
> textual differences
> in HE  b/c it will be the British edition? (hoping the question came out
> right)...
>
> Thanks...
>



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 10:20:07 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: HE from amazon.co.uk
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On Thursday, August 16, 2001, at 09:55 AM, Donna M. Jaggard wrote:

>>> Now an actual question.. as this will actually be the first 'import'
>>> book I've gotten. I know the covers are different from the US
>>> editions, but are there any textual differences in HE  b/c it will
>>> be the British edition? (hoping the question came out right)...
>>>
>>> Thanks...
>>>
>> They like to add unnecessary U's to lots of words (honour, colour) but
>> I think that's it.
>
> And of course a lot of calling people wankers... and you'll have to
> pretend they're all talking with an accent. :)


Oh, and let us not forget "bleedin' tosser," too.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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From: "Donna M. Jaggard" <donna@arwen.org>
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> Oh, and let us not forget "bleedin' tosser," too.

Huh. I always thought that was a Canadianism. Apparnelty I need 
to go to the UK to see what Canadianisms are actually UKisms. :) 

-d

--
Donna M. Jaggard   |   http://www.arwen.org/
donna@arwen.org    |   http://www.web-goddess.net/
By the time you swear you're his, Shivering and sighing, 
And he vows his passion is Infinite, undying 
- Lady make note of this: One of you is lying.
              - Dorothy Parker 'Unfortunate Coincidence'



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 10:19:36 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
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On Thursday, August 16, 2001, at 09:55 AM, Donna M. Jaggard wrote:

>>> Now an actual question.. as this will actually be the first 'import'
>>> book I've gotten. I know the covers are different from the US
>>> editions, but are there any textual differences in HE  b/c it will
>>> be the British edition? (hoping the question came out right)...
>>>
>>> Thanks...
>>>
>> They like to add unnecessary U's to lots of words (honour, colour) but
>> I think that's it.
>
> And of course a lot of calling people wankers... and you'll have to
> pretend they're all talking with an accent. :)
>


"Bluudy wan'k'a," is more like it, luv.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 13:45:22 -0400 (EDT)
From: Christopher Adam Manley <amanley@host.ptbo.igs.net>
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That's a Canadianism?  Which part of Canada?

I can honestly say that I've never heard anyone in the capital city use
the phrase 'bleedin' tosser' ... but, it does have a nice enough ring to
it.  Perhaps I could introduce it to the region.

Given, I don't even know what sense the phrase is used in. ;)

Best,
Christopher A. Manley

On Thu, 16 Aug 2001, Donna M. Jaggard wrote:

> > Oh, and let us not forget "bleedin' tosser," too.
> 
> Huh. I always thought that was a Canadianism. Apparnelty I need 
> to go to the UK to see what Canadianisms are actually UKisms. :) 
> 
> -d
> 
> --
> Donna M. Jaggard   |   http://www.arwen.org/
> donna@arwen.org    |   http://www.web-goddess.net/
> By the time you swear you're his, Shivering and sighing, 
> And he vows his passion is Infinite, undying 
> - Lady make note of this: One of you is lying.
>               - Dorothy Parker 'Unfortunate Coincidence'
> 
> 



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Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 10:58:01 -0700
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> That's a Canadianism?  Which part of Canada?
> 
> I can honestly say that I've never heard anyone in the capital city
> use the phrase 'bleedin' tosser' ... but, it does have a nice enough
> ring to it. Perhaps I could introduce it to the region.
> 
> Given, I don't even know what sense the phrase is used in. ;)

Hi, my name is Donna, and I'm a Vancouverite who has been 
known to call people bleedin' tossers before. 

Wankers, too, but thats one that I picked up from a brit. And yes, I 
say "eh" more than I should. :) (I'll bet Earl can come up with lots 
of my little canadianisms... but at least I pronounce "roof" as "roof" 
and not "ruf"!)

-d

--
Donna M. Jaggard   |   http://www.arwen.org/
donna@arwen.org    |   http://www.web-goddess.net/
"I stopped believing in Santa Claus when my mother took 
me to see him in a department store, and he asked for my 
autograph."                            -- Shirley Temple 



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Subject: RE: HE from amazon.co.uk
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From: "Michael Gibson" <gibfish@gibbyco.freeserve.co.uk>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
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> > That's a Canadianism?  Which part of Canada?
> > 
> > I can honestly say that I've never heard anyone in the capital city
> > use the phrase 'bleedin' tosser' ... but, it does have a nice enough
> > ring to it. Perhaps I could introduce it to the region.
> > 
> > Given, I don't even know what sense the phrase is used in. ;)
> 
> Hi, my name is Donna, and I'm a Vancouverite who has been 
> known to call people bleedin' tossers before. 
> 
> Wankers, too, but thats one that I picked up from a brit. And yes, I 
> say "eh" more than I should. :) (I'll bet Earl can come up with lots 
> of my little canadianisms... but at least I pronounce "roof" as "roof" 
> and not "ruf"!)

When I went to Canada a few years back, a guy took us out on a "boot". ;-)

Mike,
Gibfish of the West.
                                          Check out my forums at:
"If a problem appears simple, then it     http://www.tonrae.co.uk/forums/
probably hasn't been thought through."    



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Subject: RE: HE from amazon.co.uk
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From: "Michael Gibson" <gibfish@gibbyco.freeserve.co.uk>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: HE from amazon.co.uk
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> >>> Now an actual question.. as this will actually be the first 'import'
> >>> book I've gotten. I know the covers are different from the US
> >>> editions, but are there any textual differences in HE  b/c it will
> >>> be the British edition? (hoping the question came out right)...
> >>>
> >>> Thanks...
> >>>
> >> They like to add unnecessary U's to lots of words (honour, colour) but
> >> I think that's it.
> >
> > And of course a lot of calling people wankers... and you'll have to
> > pretend they're all talking with an accent. :)
>
>
> Oh, and let us not forget "bleedin' tosser," too.

Cor blimey guvnor, you bin to Lundun laightly?

Actually, it's amazing how many times a cockney (London) accent is mistaken for
an Ozzie one.

I'm pleased to say that I've never said "bleedin tosser". ;-)  I had no idea
that wanker wasn't used much in the US.

Mike,
Gibfish of the West.
                                          Check out my forums at:
"If a problem appears simple, then it     http://www.tonrae.co.uk/forums/
probably hasn't been thought through."



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Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 19:41:19 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Andrea J Chee <andrea@bloodaxe.com>
Subject: Re: HE from amazon.co.uk
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In article <Pine.BSF.4.05.10108161342550.4454-100000@host.ptbo.igs.net>,
Christopher Adam Manley <amanley@host.ptbo.igs.net> writes
>
>I can honestly say that I've never heard anyone in the capital city use
>the phrase 'bleedin' tosser' ... but, it does have a nice enough ring to
>it.  Perhaps I could introduce it to the region.
>
>Given, I don't even know what sense the phrase is used in. ;)

Synonymous with 'bloody wanker'. Consider them interchangeable.

- ANDREA

-- 
  Get PAID for the emails you already send and receive! 
http://www.mailround.com/  Referrer: andrea@bloodaxe.com
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--

On Thu, 16 Aug 2001 09:43:44  
 Donna M. Jaggard wrote:
>> Ya know....
>> 
>> As strange/scary as this may be....
>> 
>> HE is costing me 13.94 GPB with shipping and handling which came out
>> to about $19.70 yesterday.  Hardcovers in the US usually run about
>> $25-$30 now... plus tax....
>
>I ordered HE from amazon.co.uk the day before it went on half 
>price. I was most disappointed. So, I emailed them and asked if 
>they could do anything about it. And, yay me, they credited my 
>visa 9GPB! (and were very careful to tell me that this isn't standard 
>practice, but was a gesture of "good will". Well, *I* appreciate it!) 
>
>-d


You see Donna, I stopped to be you <g>. I never thought they would do
that so I did not ask them for a discount :-(

Well, Ray's work is priceless anyway :-)


PJ





>--
>Donna M. Jaggard   |   http://www.arwen.org/
>donna@arwen.org    |   http://www.web-goddess.net/
>"I require three things in a man. He must be 
>handsome, ruthless and stupid." - Dorothy Parker
>
> 
>
>


Get 250 color business cards for FREE!
http://businesscards.lycos.com/vp/fastpath/



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> You see Donna, I stopped to be you <g>. I never thought they would do
> that so I did not ask them for a discount :-(

Phew. The world has enough mes. One. 

> Well, Ray's work is priceless anyway :-)

This s true. But I also just made a large purchase at 
thinkgeek.com... and I bought a new digicam... and I said I'd sell 
my monitor to a friend next week, which means I'll need to buy a 
new monitor... so every little discount helps. :) 

-d



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References: <NGELLDNAEMBGGGHFAJPBCEMACHAA.gibfish@gibbyco.freeserve.co.uk>
Subject: Re: HE from amazon.co.uk
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From: "Raine and Jamie" <ashika@pcisys.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: HE from amazon.co.uk
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 14:22:29 -0600
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> > > That's a Canadianism?  Which part of Canada?
> > >
> > > I can honestly say that I've never heard anyone in the capital city
> > > use the phrase 'bleedin' tosser' ... but, it does have a nice enough
> > > ring to it. Perhaps I could introduce it to the region.
> > >
> > > Given, I don't even know what sense the phrase is used in. ;)
> >
> > Hi, my name is Donna, and I'm a Vancouverite who has been
> > known to call people bleedin' tossers before.
> >
> > Wankers, too, but thats one that I picked up from a brit. And yes, I
> > say "eh" more than I should. :) (I'll bet Earl can come up with lots
> > of my little canadianisms... but at least I pronounce "roof" as "roof"
> > and not "ruf"!)
>
> When I went to Canada a few years back, a guy took us out on a "boot". ;-)
>
> Mike,
> Gibfish of the West.
>                                           Check out my forums at:
> "If a problem appears simple, then it     http://www.tonrae.co.uk/forums/
> probably hasn't been thought through."
>
>
I'm  married to one of those "Boot" people from Canada. They sure talk funny
sometimes.

Ya'll have fun now, ya hear.
Raine



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Ok I understand no one likes me, thats why I have not been saying anything. 
but this guy has taken my go......ok name!!!
this I can prove!!!
I am from scotland
Aberdeen
I am logged with Aol.
If any has my old E-mails then check and see!!
And another thing.
If anyone has read what I write they will know that My fav books of all time 
Are the empire series!!! I LOVE Jenny Wurts As well as Raymond. And no 
matter what I say I respect These two Writers And I would NEVER say anything 
horrible or nasty about either of them!!!
Yes I am the troll of the List and proud of it and this Weirdo whos trying 
to copy me isn't doing a very good job!!!

Be cool
Calvin

and rememeber

The early bird may get the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese!!

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp



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Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 23:07:51 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Al Solo <solo.nova@btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: WHAT???????WHOS CALVIN SHOULDNT??????
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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It's interesting how you "LOVE" Janny Wurts so much, yet fail to spell her 
name correctly.

It is also easy to swap between ISPs when you want to post with a different 
IP address.

Al

At 20:42 16/08/2001 +0000, you wrote:


>Ok I understand no one likes me, thats why I have not been saying 
>anything. but this guy has taken my go......ok name!!!
>this I can prove!!!
>I am from scotland
>Aberdeen
>I am logged with Aol.
>If any has my old E-mails then check and see!!
>And another thing.
>If anyone has read what I write they will know that My fav books of all 
>time Are the empire series!!! I LOVE Jenny Wurts As well as Raymond. And 
>no matter what I say I respect These two Writers And I would NEVER say 
>anything horrible or nasty about either of them!!!
>Yes I am the troll of the List and proud of it and this Weirdo whos trying 
>to copy me isn't doing a very good job!!!
>
>Be cool
>Calvin
>
>and rememeber
>
>The early bird may get the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese!!
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp



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Subject: finished Honoured Enemy
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I just wanted to say thanks to Mr. Feist and Mr. Forstchen, Mr Feist I
am never disapointed.

I do have a question though, slight spoiler.








Are you going to continue having the elves have a telepathic link or
was that just something that worked well for the book.

So thanks again Mr. Feist and tell Mr. Forstchen that he has at least
one new fan.

                                                      Thanks

                                                 Steve Weghorn.

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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Dan Lorey <dl24@cornell.edu>
Subject: ADMIN: Re: WHAT???????WHOS CALVIN SHOULDNT??????
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 19:38:04 -0400
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Dan Lorey <dl24@cornell.edu>
Subject: ADMIN: Re: WHAT???????WHOS CALVIN SHOULDNT??????
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

At 20:42 8/16/01 +0000, the latest uninspired Hotmail incarnation of 
"Calvin Must" <calvin_always@hotmail.com> wrote:

>Yes I am the troll of the List and proud of it 


  Reason enough to remove Calvin yet again from the list, regardless if
there's any truth to his claims of ignorance regarding Calvin Shouldnt.

  To those who have asked me, yes, it would be an easy thing for me to
blacklist the entire hotmail.com domain and block out all list email
coming from there. However, since there are approximately 80 Hotmail
subscribers on the list, there's no way I'm going to take such a drastic
step.

  Dan Lorey - Feistfans-L List Owner



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From: Allan Mills <milla@css.com.au>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" (FEISTFANS-L) <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: ADMIN: Re: WHAT???????WHOS CALVIN SHOULDNT??????
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 09:49:59 +1000
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*** EOOH ***
From: Allan Mills <milla@css.com.au>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" (FEISTFANS-L) <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: ADMIN: Re: WHAT???????WHOS CALVIN SHOULDNT??????
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 09:49:59 +1000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

 Could we do it on a per user basis and require Hotmail subscribers to get
approval from you first ? I don't think it's possible to trace the original
IP address of a mail from Hotmail is it ? 

 Allan

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dan Lorey [mailto:dl24@cornell.edu]
> Sent: Friday, August 17, 2001 9:38 AM
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Subject: ADMIN: Re: WHAT???????WHOS CALVIN SHOULDNT??????
> 
> 
> At 20:42 8/16/01 +0000, the latest uninspired Hotmail incarnation of 
> "Calvin Must" <calvin_always@hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
> >Yes I am the troll of the List and proud of it 
> 
> 
>   Reason enough to remove Calvin yet again from the list, 
> regardless if
> there's any truth to his claims of ignorance regarding Calvin 
> Shouldnt.
> 
>   To those who have asked me, yes, it would be an easy thing for me to
> blacklist the entire hotmail.com domain and block out all list email
> coming from there. However, since there are approximately 80 Hotmail
> subscribers on the list, there's no way I'm going to take 
> such a drastic
> step.
> 
>   Dan Lorey - Feistfans-L List Owner
> 
> 



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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: John <john@crydee.com>
Subject: Re: HE from amazon.co.uk
References: <200108161719.f7GHJwP14053@smtp2.san.rr.com>
 <NGELLDNAEMBGGGHFAJPBAEMACHAA.gibfish@gibbyco.freeserve.co.uk>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 01:09:50 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: John <john@crydee.com>
Subject: Re: HE from amazon.co.uk
User-Agent: Turnpike/6.00-Beta-6-U (<x5sqXV$6+zj$GDJXMMY4QwhIW3>)
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Michael Gibson <gibfish@gibbyco.freeserve.co.uk> writes
>I'm pleased to say that I've never said "bleedin tosser". ;-)  I had no idea
>that wanker wasn't used much in the US.
It is . A friend moved there last year and is teaching his locals proper 
English <G>
He calls them all  'Wankers'  They currently think it a complement :)

-- 
John

john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.

Raymond E Feist Ring
http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm



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From: "Donna M. Jaggard" <donna@arwen.org>
Organization: arwen.org
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 18:00:27 -0700
Subject: RE: ADMIN: Re: WHAT???????WHOS CALVIN SHOULDNT??????
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*** EOOH ***
X-Authentication-Warning: cyberfox.org: Host [142.179.10.42] claimed to be abby
From: "Donna M. Jaggard" <donna@arwen.org>
Organization: arwen.org
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 18:00:27 -0700
Subject: RE: ADMIN: Re: WHAT???????WHOS CALVIN SHOULDNT??????
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Priority: normal
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

>  I don't think it's possible to trace the original
> IP address of a mail from Hotmail is it ? 

Absolutely it is. Every email sent from hotmail has a tag in the 
headers called "X-Originating-IP" with the IP following. 

Very easy to track people down. No such thing as being 
anonymous online. :)

-d

--
Donna M. Jaggard   |   http://www.arwen.org/
donna@arwen.org    |   http://www.web-goddess.net/
"In the 60's people took acid to make the world 
weird. Now the world is weird, people take prozac 
to make it normal."



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From: Allan Mills <milla@css.com.au>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" (FEISTFANS-L) <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: ADMIN: Re: WHAT???????WHOS CALVIN SHOULDNT??????
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 11:20:29 +1000
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*** EOOH ***
From: Allan Mills <milla@css.com.au>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" (FEISTFANS-L) <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: ADMIN: Re: WHAT???????WHOS CALVIN SHOULDNT??????
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 11:20:29 +1000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

 Can we send some complaints to his ISP then ? Generally ISPs take a dislike
of people being obnoxious online. 

 Also is it possible to stop the list server from thinking list postings are
commands meant for the listproc ? 

 Allan

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Donna M. Jaggard [mailto:donna@arwen.org]
> Sent: Friday, August 17, 2001 11:00 AM
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Subject: RE: ADMIN: Re: WHAT???????WHOS CALVIN SHOULDNT??????
> 
> 
> >  I don't think it's possible to trace the original
> > IP address of a mail from Hotmail is it ? 
> 
> Absolutely it is. Every email sent from hotmail has a tag in the 
> headers called "X-Originating-IP" with the IP following. 
> 
> Very easy to track people down. No such thing as being 
> anonymous online. :)
> 
> -d
> 
> --
> Donna M. Jaggard   |   http://www.arwen.org/
> donna@arwen.org    |   http://www.web-goddess.net/
> "In the 60's people took acid to make the world 
> weird. Now the world is weird, people take prozac 
> to make it normal."
> 
> 



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Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 11:23:06 +1000 (EST)
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From: David Smith - NT Interoperability Engineer <David.M.Smith@Sun.COM>
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: HE from amazon.co.uk
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 11:23:06 +1000 (EST)
From: David Smith - NT Interoperability Engineer <David.M.Smith@Sun.COM>
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: HE from amazon.co.uk
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

» Michael Gibson <gibfish@gibbyco.freeserve.co.uk> writes
» >I'm pleased to say that I've never said "bleedin tosser". ;-)  I had no idea
» >that wanker wasn't used much in the US.
» It is . A friend moved there last year and is teaching his locals proper 
» English <G>
» He calls them all  'Wankers'  They currently think it a complement :)
» 
» -- 
» John

Maybe it is? <EG>

-- David Smith



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From: "Darren McClung" <d@dwmc.org>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
References: <IACIALIMBADDFAAA@mailcity.com>
Subject: Re: HE from amazon.co.uk
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 20:33:39 -0500
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Darren McClung" <d@dwmc.org>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: HE from amazon.co.uk
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 20:33:39 -0500
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Paddyjack,

Email them.  I did so today at about 16:00 CDT, and had an email back about
4 hours later saying they had credited my card for 9 GBP.

Way cool.  I'll have to do business with them more often.

Darren

>
> --
>
> On Thu, 16 Aug 2001 09:43:44
>  Donna M. Jaggard wrote:
> >> Ya know....
> >>
> >> As strange/scary as this may be....
> >>
> >> HE is costing me 13.94 GPB with shipping and handling which came out
> >> to about $19.70 yesterday.  Hardcovers in the US usually run about
> >> $25-$30 now... plus tax....
> >
> >I ordered HE from amazon.co.uk the day before it went on half
> >price. I was most disappointed. So, I emailed them and asked if
> >they could do anything about it. And, yay me, they credited my
> >visa 9GPB! (and were very careful to tell me that this isn't standard
> >practice, but was a gesture of "good will". Well, *I* appreciate it!)
> >
> >-d
>
>
> You see Donna, I stopped to be you <g>. I never thought they would do that
so I did not ask them for a discount :-(
>
> Well, Ray's work is priceless anyway :-)
>
>
> PJ
>
>
>
>
>
> >--
> >Donna M. Jaggard   |   http://www.arwen.org/
> >donna@arwen.org    |   http://www.web-goddess.net/
> >"I require three things in a man. He must be
> >handsome, ruthless and stupid." - Dorothy Parker
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> Get 250 color business cards for FREE!
> http://businesscards.lycos.com/vp/fastpath/
>



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Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 18:44:06 -0700
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Subject: Re: finished Honoured Enemy
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 18:44:06 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: finished Honoured Enemy
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On Thursday, August 16, 2001, at 04:27 PM, Steve Weghorn wrote:

> I just wanted to say thanks to Mr. Feist and Mr. Forstchen, Mr Feist I 
> am never disapointed.
> I do have a question though, slight spoiler.
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
> Are you going to continue having the elves have a telepathic link or 
> was that just something that worked well for the book.
> So thanks again Mr. Feist and tell Mr. Forstchen that he has at least 
> one new fan.
>

I was working hard to keep it from being "telepathic."  The relationship 
between Tinuva and Bovai was special, because of their birth.  But in 
general, it's more a "sense," rather than any true telepathic link.

Best, R.E.F.

----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.

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From: Dan Lorey <dl24@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: ADMIN: Re: WHAT???????WHOS CALVIN SHOULDNT??????
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 21:49:35 -0400
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Dan Lorey <dl24@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: ADMIN: Re: WHAT???????WHOS CALVIN SHOULDNT??????
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Combining responses to a couple of posts here...

At 09:49 8/17/01 +1000, Allan Mills <milla@css.com.au> wrote:
> Could we do it on a per user basis and require Hotmail subscribers to get
>approval from you first ? I don't think it's possible to trace the original
>IP address of a mail from Hotmail is it ? 

  I can set the list so that all new subscription requests have to be
approved by me. However, I used this option on another Cornell mailing
list I had, and the subscription approval request messages the list
server sends out only states the email address of the new subscriber, not
the IP address they're subscribing from. So with an address like Hotmail, 
I can't tell their Originating IP address until the first time they 
actually post something and I can check the headers. I'll look and see 
if the system has changed since I last used that option, but I imagine 
that going to that kind of controlled subscription wouldn't really do
much if I can't tell exactly what ISP someone is using before I subscribe
them.

And at 11:20 8/17/01 +1000, Allan Mills <milla@css.com.au> wrote:

> Also is it possible to stop the list server from thinking list postings are
>commands meant for the listproc ? 

  Unfortunately, that's a general list server function that I don't have
any control over. I know they've been tweaking and upgrading the list
server hardware and software this summer, and maybe they'll get that
problem fixed by the time they're done.


  Dan Lorey - Feistfans-L List Owner



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From: "Paddyjack [ ]" <erykel@lycos.com>
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>
>  To those who have asked me, yes, it would be an easy thing for me to
>blacklist the entire hotmail.com domain and block out all list email
>coming from there. However, since there are approximately 80 Hotmail
>subscribers on the list, there's no way I'm going to take such a drastic
>step.
>


Well I'm happy to hear it. I do everything on the net using my hotmail
account because that's the best way I found to limit spamming in my
real ISP address. I'm subscribed right now with a Lycos account
because for some reason I was not able to filter the list in a
specific folder anymore, and everything was going into my bulk mail.

If I read the list on a day to day basis I would not mind reading it
with my real address. However, I found very annoying to download 150+
message when I come back from a trip. I don'thave that problem with a
commercial account.

PJ


Get 250 color business cards for FREE!
http://businesscards.lycos.com/vp/fastpath/



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Subject: OT: ADMIN: Re: WHAT???????WHOS CALVIN SHOULDNT??????
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*** EOOH ***
Subject: OT: ADMIN: Re: WHAT???????WHOS CALVIN SHOULDNT??????
From: Falerin Ardendor <falerin@ultraisp.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Date: 17 Aug 2001 06:59:56 +0500
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

> >  I don't think it's possible to trace the original
> > IP address of a mail from Hotmail is it ? 
> 
> Absolutely it is. Every email sent from hotmail has a tag in the 
> headers called "X-Originating-IP" with the IP following. 
> 
> Very easy to track people down. No such thing as being 
> anonymous online. :)

Sure there is.. use a remailer... Not that many exist any longer...



> -d
> 
> --
> Donna M. Jaggard   |   http://www.arwen.org/
> donna@arwen.org    |   http://www.web-goddess.net/
> "In the 60's people took acid to make the world 
> weird. Now the world is weird, people take prozac 
> to make it normal."
> 
> 



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From: Dan Lorey <dl24@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: ADMIN: Re: WHAT???????WHOS CALVIN SHOULDNT??????
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 22:05:22 -0400
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Dan Lorey <dl24@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: ADMIN: Re: WHAT???????WHOS CALVIN SHOULDNT??????
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

  Let me answer the first half of my last email again, as I think I may
have misinterpreted what Allan was asking...

At 09:49 8/17/01 +1000, Allan Mills <milla@css.com.au> wrote:
> Could we do it on a per user basis and require Hotmail subscribers to get
>approval from you first ? I don't think it's possible to trace the original
>IP address of a mail from Hotmail is it ? 

  If you're asking if it's possible to do a sort of selective moderation
on the list where only posts from Hotmail addresses have to be approved,
I don't think the list server software Cornell uses has that option. I
have seen it in mailing list software packages like Mailman, but not in
the Cornell-modified version of CREN's ListProc. With ListProc, list
moderation is all or nothing. I will look into it, though.

  Sorry for the double response to this, but it's been a long and unpleasant
day (it would've been a long and unpleasant day even without Calvin), and 
my brain's not running at optimum capacity tonight :)

  Dan



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From: "Donna M. Jaggard" <donna@arwen.org>
Organization: arwen.org
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 19:16:40 -0700
Subject: RE: ADMIN: Re: WHAT???????WHOS CALVIN SHOULDNT??????
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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From: "Donna M. Jaggard" <donna@arwen.org>
Organization: arwen.org
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 19:16:40 -0700
Subject: RE: ADMIN: Re: WHAT???????WHOS CALVIN SHOULDNT??????
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>  Can we send some complaints to his ISP then ? Generally ISPs take a
>  dislike of people being obnoxious online. 

As a veteran of 3 ISPs, someone just being obnoxious isn't enough 
to even warrant a warning, unfortunetly. Spamming, racism, hate, 
etc... that would be enough. But merely being annoying? Not likely.

-d


--
Donna M. Jaggard   |   http://www.arwen.org/
donna@arwen.org    |   http://www.web-goddess.net/
"I require three things in a man. He must be 
handsome, ruthless and stupid." - Dorothy Parker

 



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References: <E3A4AA1DA7B41849A632450233B5423A177E6F@css01.css.com.au>
Subject: Re: ADMIN: Re: WHAT???????WHOS CALVIN SHOULDNT??????
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 21:18:47 -0500
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Darren McClung" <d@dwmc.org>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: ADMIN: Re: WHAT???????WHOS CALVIN SHOULDNT??????
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 21:18:47 -0500
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> Can we send some complaints to his ISP then ? Generally ISPs take a dislike
> of people being obnoxious online.
>

Sure, check out the headers, he's coming from 195.13.106.166 which is a
cerbernet.co.uk IP.  Copy the whole thing including headers (very
important!) and fire it off to abuse or postmaster and somebody should see
it.

Darren



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 21:39:09 -0500
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
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James Silva wrote:
> 
> Legacy Series is based on a video game, the Riftwar Series is not. As such,
> it has to follow the storyline of the videogame. This, I think, puts certain
> restrictions on the book. All and all, I think he (Ray) did a great job of
> turning the games into novels.

I read somewhere (having dug out my copy of the Betrayal at Krondor
game) that BaK was based on a short story of the same title, then the
full book, Krondor: The Betrayal, came later?

Craig J. Ries



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	 <Pine.BSF.4.05.10108161342550.4454-100000@host.ptbo.igs.net> <bkAcESAPPBf7Ewdg@bloodaxe.demon.co.uk>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 21:45:50 -0500
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: HE from amazon.co.uk
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Andrea J Chee wrote:
> 
> Synonymous with 'bloody wanker'. Consider them interchangeable.

"Bloody wanker" and any other colorful phrases that I could pick up from
Red Dwarf... :)

Craig J. Ries



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 21:57:24 -0500
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Thought
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Raymond Feist wrote:
> 
> It assumes that I judge my works "better/worse," or some other fashion.
> 
> Every book is the product of hard work.

Well, I must ask then if you have a favorite in particular of the books
you've written? a favorite character? :)

Now that I'm about halfway through Servant of the Empire (and I cannot
wait to get to Mistress), I'm finding that the characters, particularly
Mara, Keyoke, and Arakasi, just as wonderful to follow as Pug, Tomas,
and Arutha :)

Craig J. Ries



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 21:59:58 -0500
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: ADMIN: Re: WHAT???????WHOS CALVIN SHOULDNT??????
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

"Donna M. Jaggard" wrote:
> 
> >  Can we send some complaints to his ISP then ? Generally ISPs take a
> >  dislike of people being obnoxious online.
> 
> As a veteran of 3 ISPs, someone just being obnoxious isn't enough
> to even warrant a warning, unfortunetly. Spamming, racism, hate,
> etc... that would be enough. But merely being annoying? Not likely.

Considering that he has been kicked from this list under multiple e-mail
addresses, I believe that would constitute spam.

At any rate, contacting his isp wouldn't hurt... at worst then do
nothing, at best, we never hear from him again.

Craig J. Ries



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 20:50:11 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Thought
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On Thursday, August 16, 2001, at 07:57 PM, Craig J. Ries wrote:

> Raymond Feist wrote:
>>
>> It assumes that I judge my works "better/worse," or some other fashion.
>>
>> Every book is the product of hard work.
>
> Well, I must ask then if you have a favorite in particular of the books
> you've written?

The next project or the one after that is "the favorite."  By the time 
I'm done with a book, I'm tired of it.  There are some that were more 
fun to write than others.  Darkness was a particular fun ride, as was 
Servant, and Honored Enemy.  Magician wasn't that much fun, mostly 
because it was the first and so much of it was trial and error.

>  a favorite character? :)

Some are more fun to write than others, but all of them are "good," 
insofar as they do what I want.  Jimmy, Arakasi, Amos, Nakor, Roo, to 
name a few, were interesting to write.  Erik and Arutha, for example, 
were more difficult because they were not "lively" types and much of 
their growth was internal.

>
> Now that I'm about halfway through Servant of the Empire (and I cannot
> wait to get to Mistress), I'm finding that the characters, particularly
> Mara, Keyoke, and Arakasi, just as wonderful to follow as Pug, Tomas,
> and Arutha :)

Glad you're enjoying the work.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.

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From: "Donna M. Jaggard" <donna@arwen.org>
Organization: arwen.org
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 20:54:43 -0700
Subject: Re: OT: ADMIN: Re: WHAT???????WHOS CALVIN SHOULDNT??????
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> > Very easy to track people down. No such thing as being 
> > anonymous online. :)
> 
> Sure there is.. use a remailer... Not that many exist any longer...

True, but even remailer services keep logs. :)

-d

--
Donna M. Jaggard   |   http://www.arwen.org/
donna@arwen.org    |   http://www.web-goddess.net/
By the time you swear you're his, Shivering and sighing, 
And he vows his passion is Infinite, undying 
- Lady make note of this: One of you is lying.
              - Dorothy Parker 'Unfortunate Coincidence'



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From: "Donna M. Jaggard" <donna@arwen.org>
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Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 20:54:21 -0700
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> Considering that he has been kicked from this list under multiple
> e-mail addresses, I believe that would constitute spam.

No, not even close. It bothers me intensely when people bandy the 
term spam about for any bit of annoying mail they get.

Spam is unsolicited bulk commercial email. Since this is a mailing 
list, pretty much any mail you get on it is solicited. Bulk, well, he's 
only sending it to the list, so that doesn't apply. Commercial? Not 
even close. But hey, it *is* email... :)

But either way. Its not spam. Its just annoying. He's not even 
harassing anybody, he's just being a twit. Theres no rules against 
being annoying and any ISP that blocks people based on being a 
twit will go out of business *very* quickly. 

-d

--
Donna M. Jaggard   |   http://www.arwen.org/
donna@arwen.org    |   http://www.web-goddess.net/
"Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, 
       ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam."



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Subject: Re: HE from amazon.co.uk
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Julie Wootten" <wootten@xtra.co.nz>
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From: Larry Siegel <larry@psihawk.com>
> HE is costing me 13.94 GPB with shipping and handling which came out to about
> $19.70 yesterday.  Hardcovers in the US usually run about $25-$30 now...
> plus tax....
>
> So I am getting HE shipped to me from the UK for cheaper then I could pick
> up the US
> version even if it were available.

Mmm well, it doesn't seem to work that way for me.  Even at 50% off, it is
still 25%
more expensive than HE will cost when it FINALLY gets to NZ -  Whitcoulls
say it's within a month, but no actual date.  Damn my miserly born-again
student
finances.

Julie.



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From: John <john@crydee.com>
Subject: Re: finished Honoured Enemy
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Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com> writes
>
>I was working hard to keep it from being "telepathic."  The 
>relationship between Tinuva and Bovai was special, because of their 
>birth.  But in general, it's more a "sense," rather than any true 
>telepathic link.

As in how twins sometimes know what is happening to their sibling ? They 
just know.
-- 
John

john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.

Raymond E Feist Ring
http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm



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Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com> writes
>
>Some are more fun to write than others, but all of them are "good," 
>insofar as they do what I want.  Jimmy, Arakasi, Amos, Nakor, Roo, to 
>name a few, were interesting to write.

You just like rogues Ray :)
I wonder if this stems from your interest in old swashbuckler movies, 
where the lead character was often of that nature ?
Or even Robin Hood

Of all the movies you have seen, or books you have read, are there any 
you have said to yourself, what a good story, I wish I had come up with 
that idea first?

-- 
John

john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.

Raymond E Feist Ring
http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm



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From: LAR <lds627@home.com>
Subject: RE: HE from amazon.co.uk
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Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 22:33:59 -0700
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu, <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
From: LAR <lds627@home.com>
Subject: RE: HE from amazon.co.uk
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At 07:38 PM 8/16/01 +0100, Michael Gibson wrote:
> > > That's a Canadianism?  Which part of Canada?
> > >
> > > I can honestly say that I've never heard anyone in the capital city
> > > use the phrase 'bleedin' tosser' ... but, it does have a nice enough
> > > ring to it. Perhaps I could introduce it to the region.
> > >
> > > Given, I don't even know what sense the phrase is used in. ;)
> >
> > Hi, my name is Donna, and I'm a Vancouverite who has been
> > known to call people bleedin' tossers before.
> >
> > Wankers, too, but thats one that I picked up from a brit. And yes, I
> > say "eh" more than I should. :) (I'll bet Earl can come up with lots
> > of my little canadianisms... but at least I pronounce "roof" as "roof"
> > and not "ruf"!)
>
>When I went to Canada a few years back, a guy took us out on a "boot". ;-)
>
>Mike,
>Gibfish of the West.
>

Wasn't that Ooot on a boot?

Larry
Who spent TOO much time in Nova Scotia



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Subject: Re: HE from amazon.co.uk
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Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 08:44:09 +0100
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From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: HE from amazon.co.uk
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At 09:54 AM 8/16/01 -0700, Andrew Scott wrote:
>They like to add unnecessary U's to lots of words (honour, colour) but I
>think that's it.

Another I've come across recently is the double/single L syndrome.

I write stuff at home, spell check it.  Words like  ' traveler '
are "spelled correctly" at home (UK spell-checker).  I take them
to the place where I print them out where they have US spell
checkers, and I find that they are spelled incorrectly.  The UK 
version is ' traveller '...same with revel/reveler (reveller)...

rip



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Subject: UK spelling.
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From: "Julie Wootten" <wootten@xtra.co.nz>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: UK spelling.
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 20:29:48 +1200
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> At 09:54 AM 8/16/01 -0700, Andrew Scott wrote:
> >They like to add unnecessary U's to lots of words (honour, colour) but I
> >think that's it.
> 
> Another I've come across recently is the double/single L syndrome.
> 
> I write stuff at home, spell check it.  Words like  ' traveler '
> are "spelled correctly" at home (UK spell-checker).  I take them
> to the place where I print them out where they have US spell
> checkers, and I find that they are spelled incorrectly.  The UK 
> version is ' traveller '...same with revel/reveler (reveller)...
> 
> rip

Actually I was pondering this very thing just yesterday.  With
the word 'enrol'.  In the US, I believe it is 'enroll'.  What's
interesting, is that enrol basically means to join a list/register - or 
a 'roll' (e.g. the electoral roll), spelled with 2 L's in the UK.
But as soon as you do something with the roll, it may or may
not lose the second L.  Enrol, enrolment, enrolling, enrolled,
enrollee.  English sure is a funny language.

Julie.



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 16:40:12 +0800
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Jon Hope <jehope@chem.uwa.edu.au>
Subject: Re: OT: ADMIN: Re: WHAT???????WHOS CALVIN SHOULDNT??????
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At 20:54 16/08/01 -0700, you wrote:
> > > Very easy to track people down. No such thing as being
> > > anonymous online. :)
> >
> > Sure there is.. use a remailer... Not that many exist any longer...
>
>True, but even remailer services keep logs. :)

You can always use public libraries, universities, cyber cafes, and so on 
and so forth. All of them are very difficult to monitor who is using what. 
That makes for a very anonymous connection. :-)

Cheers



Jon

"Who are they that you should believe anything that they say?"



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*** EOOH ***
From: "Donal K. Fellows" <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: UK spelling.
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 10:14:15 +0100
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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"Julie Wootten" <wootten@xtra.co.nz>
> Enrol, enrolment, enrolling, enrolled, enrollee.  English sure is a
> funny language.

You only just noticed that?  <eg>

Mind you, English is really a very regular language with a simple set
of spelling rules.  It's just a very large set of rules, and many
people prefer to memorise a dictionary...

Donal.
-- 
Donal K. Fellows, Department of Computer Science, University of Manchester, UK.
(work) fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk     Tel: +44-161-275-6137  (preferred email addr.)
(home) donal@ugglan.demon.co.uk  Tel: +44-1274-401017   Mobile: +44-7957-298955
http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~fellowsd/  (Don't quote my .sig; I've seen it before!)



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Subject: Re: ADMIN: Re: WHAT???????WHOS CALVIN SHOULDNT??????
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 07:59:59 -0300
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From: "Firesight" <wolfriderfiresight@hotmail.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: ADMIN: Re: WHAT???????WHOS CALVIN SHOULDNT??????
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 07:59:59 -0300
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Not necessarily so.  On another list I am a member, we had problems with a
character called "Gremlin" (his spelling, though not the correct spelling).
Enough emails were sent to his ISP by us, that he got the boot by his ISP
and his email service (was using Yahoo.com at the time).

The bouncing ball of justice" indeed.

*-) Firesight *-)

----- Original Message -----
From: "Donna M. Jaggard" <donna@arwen.org>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 11:16 PM
Subject: RE: ADMIN: Re: WHAT???????WHOS CALVIN SHOULDNT??????


> >  Can we send some complaints to his ISP then ? Generally ISPs take a
> >  dislike of people being obnoxious online.
>
> As a veteran of 3 ISPs, someone just being obnoxious isn't enough
> to even warrant a warning, unfortunetly. Spamming, racism, hate,
> etc... that would be enough. But merely being annoying? Not likely.
>
> -d
>
>
> --
> Donna M. Jaggard   |   http://www.arwen.org/
> donna@arwen.org    |   http://www.web-goddess.net/
> "I require three things in a man. He must be
> handsome, ruthless and stupid." - Dorothy Parker
>
>
>
>



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Subject: Re: ADMIN: Re: WHAT???????WHOS CALVIN SHOULDNT??????
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From: "Firesight" <wolfriderfiresight@hotmail.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: ADMIN: Re: WHAT???????WHOS CALVIN SHOULDNT??????
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 08:06:07 -0300
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Maybe I can be a bit obtuse at times, what with my failing 19-year-old
memory and all.

Isn't Calvin trying to identify someone who is discrediting him (this Calvin
Shouldnt fellow?).  Granted, I get the impression that he can discredit
himself just by being here.

Personally, I don't think I've expereinced an abusive moment at the hands of
Calvin (again, the whole lacking memory thingee).  How much of a Trool is
Calvin?

I'm not asking you to give him a chance, but maybe just to hear him out,
over this identity thing.  Maybe he's makin' it up for attention, or maybe
it's factual -I don't know meself.

Bye for now!

*-) Firesight *-)

----- Original Message -----
From: "Donna M. Jaggard" <donna@arwen.org>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Friday, August 17, 2001 12:54 AM
Subject: Re: ADMIN: Re: WHAT???????WHOS CALVIN SHOULDNT??????


> > Considering that he has been kicked from this list under multiple
> > e-mail addresses, I believe that would constitute spam.
>
> No, not even close. It bothers me intensely when people bandy the
> term spam about for any bit of annoying mail they get.
>
> Spam is unsolicited bulk commercial email. Since this is a mailing
> list, pretty much any mail you get on it is solicited. Bulk, well, he's
> only sending it to the list, so that doesn't apply. Commercial? Not
> even close. But hey, it *is* email... :)
>
> But either way. Its not spam. Its just annoying. He's not even
> harassing anybody, he's just being a twit. Theres no rules against
> being annoying and any ISP that blocks people based on being a
> twit will go out of business *very* quickly.
>
> -d
>
> --
> Donna M. Jaggard   |   http://www.arwen.org/
> donna@arwen.org    |   http://www.web-goddess.net/
> "Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis,
>        ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam."
>
>



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Subject: RE: HE from amazon.co.uk
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 12:33:32 +0100
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From: "Michael Gibson" <gibbyfish@yahoo.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: HE from amazon.co.uk
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 12:33:32 +0100
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> Michael Gibson <gibfish@gibbyco.freeserve.co.uk> writes
> >I'm pleased to say that I've never said "bleedin tosser". ;-)  I had no idea
> >that wanker wasn't used much in the US.
>
> It is . A friend moved there last year and is teaching his locals proper
> English <G>
> He calls them all  'Wankers'  They currently think it a complement :)

I once heard about a fellow who was at some airport (I'm not sure where - it may
have been the US), who went to the Lost Property desk, and told them he'd lost a
pair of bollocks, and they were in some kind of furry bag... ;-)  Apparently
they put it out over the tannoy.  I'm not if this is an urban legend, I can't
turn it up at snopes.

Mike,
Gibfish of the West.
                                          Check out my forums at:
"If a problem appears simple, then it     http://www.tonrae.co.uk/forums/
probably hasn't been thought through."


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com



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Subject: Re: HE from amazon.co.uk
Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 23:51:42 +1000
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From: "James Barker" <heechee@softhome.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: HE from amazon.co.uk
Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 23:51:42 +1000
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----- Original Message -----
From: Michael Gibson <gibbyfish@yahoo.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Friday, August 17, 2001 9:33 PM
Subject: RE: HE from amazon.co.uk


> > Michael Gibson <gibfish@gibbyco.freeserve.co.uk> writes
> > >I'm pleased to say that I've never said "bleedin tosser". ;-)  I had no idea
> > >that wanker wasn't used much in the US.
> >
> > It is . A friend moved there last year and is teaching his locals proper
> > English <G>
> > He calls them all  'Wankers'  They currently think it a complement :)
>
> I once heard about a fellow who was at some airport (I'm not sure where - it may
> have been the US), who went to the Lost Property desk, and told them he'd lost a
> pair of bollocks, and they were in some kind of furry bag... ;-) Apparently
> they put it out over the tannoy.  I'm not if this is an urban legend, I can't
> turn it up at snopes.
>

LOL, now that is classy... There is so much fun to be had with Americans who
should know better... :)

The other day, I convinced some girl (who came from Texas *grin*) over ICQ
that I had a pet kangaroo called Skippy, and I rode him to and from school
everyday through the outback while the emus carried my bags. And don't
forget the thongs and the hat with corks dangling from it... :))

My apologies to all the smart Americans on the list, but there are so many
Americans who can be called, for lack of a better word, stupid...

Cheers,
James

P.S. We have a lot of stupid Australians, too, for that matter. A large
proportion of them seem to be One Nation supporters... :)



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From: Alex Loke <nerf@alphalink.com.au>
Subject: Re: HE from amazon.co.uk
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Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 01:22:26 +1000
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Alex Loke <nerf@alphalink.com.au>
Subject: Re: HE from amazon.co.uk
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At 11:51 PM 17/07/2001 +1000, you wrote:
>The other day, I convinced some girl (who came from Texas *grin*) over ICQ
>that I had a pet kangaroo called Skippy, and I rode him to and from school
>everyday through the outback while the emus carried my bags. And don't
>forget the thongs and the hat with corks dangling from it... :))

I can summarise this for most Australians with the words:

"Drop Bears"

Too bad we didn't relay that one to the people on Survivor 2. It might have
made the series a little more interesting.

Regards,

Alex Loke
nerf@alphalink.com.au



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Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 11:04:50 -0400
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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Karsiss <karsiss@home.com>
Subject: RiftMUSH Web Page - Web Designer Needed
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Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 11:04:50 -0400
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Karsiss <karsiss@home.com>
Subject: RiftMUSH Web Page - Web Designer Needed
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Hello folks.

RiftMUSH is in need of a web page. The page will be based upon a background
of Crydee (to be designed) and will require some automation.

This is what is needed. If you have the interest, time, and desire to work
on it, please contact me. The web page will be on a Linux Redhat 7.2
server. We will install whatever software you require. Currently the latest
sshd, apache, php4,  proftpd and mysql are installed and running.

The RiftMUSH web page will contain news files (currently in text format).
They will require easy access. It will also require the ability to display
html maps. We will be having 150-300 pre-generated characters with
background, description, and other information. There will be need of a
section to display this information and allow Administrators to input it.
The ability for players to request a displayed character is required and
the user would input an Email address (non-hotmail or yahoo or other free
Email accounts) and a password would be sent to the user to connect to the
character (pre-definded passwords). The character would require a display
of 'Available' or 'Not Available' and automaticly update (more info will be
given to the web designer). This must also have the ability to show family
trees, so linkage of parents/children and marriage must be automaticly
displayed.

A section for players to put logs will be needed. A simple 'title', 'brief
description' and 'Log Text' sections for input and then display. Admin
ability to delete/edit

Theme section
Admin section
and other lesser-involved sections.

It is also being considered that we have small sketchs with each character.
This is quite the task since we are looking at 150-300 sketchs. If you wish
to do some, please send me an Email. If there are enough interested people,
we will go ahead with this project (and the web designer would have to
allow for the pictures)

My thanks to any and all who wish to contribute to this web page.

Karsiss



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From: "Paddyjack [ ]" <erykel@lycos.com>
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Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 12:56:19 -0400
From: "Paddyjack [ ]" <erykel@lycos.com>
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>----- Original Message -----
>From: Michael Gibson <gibbyfish@yahoo.com>
>To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
>Sent: Friday, August 17, 2001 9:33 PM
>Subject: RE: HE from amazon.co.uk
>
>
>LOL, now that is classy... There is so much fun to be had with Americans who
>should know better... :)
>
>The other day, I convinced some girl (who came from Texas *grin*) over ICQ
>that I had a pet kangaroo called Skippy, and I rode him to and from school
>everyday through the outback while the emus carried my bags. And don't
>forget the thongs and the hat with corks dangling from it... :))
>


<grin> I think every countries have their stupid people, maybe some
more than others (but I'm not pointing any!! <g>). Regarding that, I
liked Goodkind's Wizard First Rule: "People are stupid", meaning that
you can make people believe anything just because they are basically
stupids. lol!

I was wondering though, about your texan girl... how old was she???
<bg> Maybe she was twelve....? On the internet, you never know...<bg>

PJ


Get 250 color business cards for FREE!
http://businesscards.lycos.com/vp/fastpath/



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Subject: RE: ADMIN: Re: WHAT???????WHOS CALVIN SHOULDNT??????
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 10:38:59 -0700
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From: "Russell Teeter" <rteeter@sitelite.com>
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*** EOOH ***
content-class: urn:content-classes:message
Subject: RE: ADMIN: Re: WHAT???????WHOS CALVIN SHOULDNT??????
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 10:38:59 -0700
Thread-Topic: ADMIN: Re: WHAT???????WHOS CALVIN SHOULDNT??????
Thread-Index: AcEnDXC3NsFChU8rQCmpaqtHN8vsmAANBPHA
From: "Russell Teeter" <rteeter@sitelite.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

There seem to be a lot of vindictive people on this list who want to get
back at Calvin because he is a little annoying.  In the last 2 months,
there have been 3 messages from a Calvin to the list directly.  If that
person emailed you directly, I don't have those stats, but IMHO, I would
trade 3 times in 2 months for a lot of the things I deal with everyday,
considering he is both Calvins.  People can change once the have been
reprimanded.  And stating he is a troll shouldn't constitute removal,
although Dan felt it was necessary.
In the last 5 years I have seen others go from so called "trolls" to
good, decent posters.

Russell

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Firesight [mailto:wolfriderfiresight@hotmail.com]
> Sent: Friday, August 17, 2001 4:06 AM
> To: FEISTFANS-L
> Subject: Re: ADMIN: Re: WHAT???????WHOS CALVIN SHOULDNT??????
> 
> 
> Maybe I can be a bit obtuse at times, what with my failing 19-year-old
> memory and all.
> 
> Isn't Calvin trying to identify someone who is discrediting 
> him (this Calvin
> Shouldnt fellow?).  Granted, I get the impression that he can 
> discredit
> himself just by being here.
> 
> Personally, I don't think I've expereinced an abusive moment 
> at the hands of
> Calvin (again, the whole lacking memory thingee).  How much 
> of a Trool is
> Calvin?
> 
> I'm not asking you to give him a chance, but maybe just to 
> hear him out,
> over this identity thing.  Maybe he's makin' it up for 
> attention, or maybe
> it's factual -I don't know meself.
> 
> Bye for now!
> 
> *-) Firesight *-)
> 
> 

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From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: ADMIN: Re: WHAT???????WHOS CALVIN SHOULDNT??????
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 02:55:31 +0800
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*** EOOH ***
From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: ADMIN: Re: WHAT???????WHOS CALVIN SHOULDNT??????
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 02:55:31 +0800
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

The biggest problem is he doesn't seem to have any desire to reform, he
is proud of his troll status and wants to keep it.

The only thing that gives his story of there being a pretend Calvin is
the other one didn't sign it off with the whole Be Cool thing at the
end. He doesn't seem clever enough to me to deliberately forget that -
I'm just as glad not to have him here though.

CW

-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Russell Teeter
>Sent: Saturday, 18 August 2001 1:39 AM
>To: FEISTFANS-L
>Subject: RE: ADMIN: Re: WHAT???????WHOS CALVIN SHOULDNT??????
>
>
>There seem to be a lot of vindictive people on this list who want to get
>back at Calvin because he is a little annoying.  In the last 2 months,
>there have been 3 messages from a Calvin to the list directly.  If that
>person emailed you directly, I don't have those stats, but IMHO, I would
>trade 3 times in 2 months for a lot of the things I deal with everyday,
>considering he is both Calvins.  People can change once the have been
>reprimanded.  And stating he is a troll shouldn't constitute removal,
>although Dan felt it was necessary.
>In the last 5 years I have seen others go from so called "trolls" to
>good, decent posters. 
>Russell 
>> -----Original Message----- 
>> From: Firesight [mailto:wolfriderfiresight@hotmail.com] 
>> Sent: Friday, August 17, 2001 4:06 AM 
>> To: FEISTFANS-L 
>> Subject: Re: ADMIN: Re: WHAT???????WHOS CALVIN SHOULDNT?????? 
>> 
>> 
>> Maybe I can be a bit obtuse at times, what with my failing 19-year-old
>
>> memory and all. 
>> 
>> Isn't Calvin trying to identify someone who is discrediting 
>> him (this Calvin 
>> Shouldnt fellow?).  Granted, I get the impression that he can 
>> discredit 
>> himself just by being here. 
>> 
>> Personally, I don't think I've expereinced an abusive moment 
>> at the hands of 
>> Calvin (again, the whole lacking memory thingee).  How much 
>> of a Trool is 
>> Calvin? 
>> 
>> I'm not asking you to give him a chance, but maybe just to 
>> hear him out, 
>> over this identity thing.  Maybe he's makin' it up for 
>> attention, or maybe 
>> it's factual -I don't know meself. 
>> 
>> Bye for now! 
>> 
>> *-) Firesight *-) 
>> 
>> 
>


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From: "Raine and Jamie" <ashika@pcisys.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
References: <000001c1274e$322e1de0$2100a8c0@PENGELLEY.COM>
Subject: Re: ADMIN: Re: WHAT???????WHOS CALVIN SHOULDNT??????
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 14:08:41 -0600
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Raine and Jamie" <ashika@pcisys.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: ADMIN: Re: WHAT???????WHOS CALVIN SHOULDNT??????
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 14:08:41 -0600
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I wonder if Clavin knows how much control he has over this list. As Russell
said, he posts on the list every so often. This stirs the entire list up,
Calvin gets banned yet again and all we hear of on the list for the next
several days is what a troll Calvin is.

BTW.....the above statement goes for anyone who joins the list that is
annoying and there has been at least 2 in the last month. Thus ending this
post I must ask each or you a question. Were you not annoying between the
ages of 12 and 16. I know I was.

Raine
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Friday, August 17, 2001 12:55 PM
Subject: RE: ADMIN: Re: WHAT???????WHOS CALVIN SHOULDNT??????


> The biggest problem is he doesn't seem to have any desire to reform, he
> is proud of his troll status and wants to keep it.
>
> The only thing that gives his story of there being a pretend Calvin is
> the other one didn't sign it off with the whole Be Cool thing at the
> end. He doesn't seem clever enough to me to deliberately forget that -
> I'm just as glad not to have him here though.
>
> CW
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Russell Teeter
> Sent: Saturday, 18 August 2001 1:39 AM
> To: FEISTFANS-L
> Subject: RE: ADMIN: Re: WHAT???????WHOS CALVIN SHOULDNT??????
>
>
> There seem to be a lot of vindictive people on this list who want to get
> back at Calvin because he is a little annoying.  In the last 2 months,
> there have been 3 messages from a Calvin to the list directly.  If that
> person emailed you directly, I don't have those stats, but IMHO, I would
> trade 3 times in 2 months for a lot of the things I deal with everyday,
> considering he is both Calvins.  People can change once the have been
> reprimanded.  And stating he is a troll shouldn't constitute removal,
> although Dan felt it was necessary.
> In the last 5 years I have seen others go from so called "trolls" to
> good, decent posters.
> Russell
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Firesight [mailto:wolfriderfiresight@hotmail.com]
> > Sent: Friday, August 17, 2001 4:06 AM
> > To: FEISTFANS-L
> > Subject: Re: ADMIN: Re: WHAT???????WHOS CALVIN SHOULDNT??????
> >
> >
> > Maybe I can be a bit obtuse at times, what with my failing 19-year-old
>
> > memory and all.
> >
> > Isn't Calvin trying to identify someone who is discrediting
> > him (this Calvin
> > Shouldnt fellow?).  Granted, I get the impression that he can
> > discredit
> > himself just by being here.
> >
> > Personally, I don't think I've expereinced an abusive moment
> > at the hands of
> > Calvin (again, the whole lacking memory thingee).  How much
> > of a Trool is
> > Calvin?
> >
> > I'm not asking you to give him a chance, but maybe just to
> > hear him out,
> > over this identity thing.  Maybe he's makin' it up for
> > attention, or maybe
> > it's factual -I don't know meself.
> >
> > Bye for now!
> >
> > *-) Firesight *-)
> >
> >
>
>



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From: John <john@crydee.com>
Subject: Crydee.com Outages
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 21:17:50 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: John <john@crydee.com>
Subject: Crydee.com Outages
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I have just initiated the final stages of transfer of ISP's The site is 
already up at the new ISP, though you may find some difficulty over the 
next 3 or 4 days, due to DNS servers referring to different ISP, while 
they all play synchronisation.

-- 
John

john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.

Raymond E Feist Ring
http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm



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Subject: Dumb Question
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 16:25:57 -0700
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From: "Jason Martin" <res0b95g@verizon.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Dumb Question
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 16:25:57 -0700
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Ok someone please fill me in on the Status of Honored Enemy for the states?
I cleaned out my mail stuff and deleted a lot of posts by mistake before I
got a chance to read them.  What i need to know basically is about how long
I will need to wait before it comes out and if it is going to be a awhile,
then I will probably important it.  (My wife will kill me, but its a Noble
cause...)  Sorry if this letter makes  mistakes on the typo's and Grammar...
Been out of it the last few days with a sick wife and a hyperactive 14 month
old....

Thanks,

Jason

PS Thank God for naptimes for peace and quiet.....

"Mas Tequila!"
       Red Vodoo- Sammy Hagar



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Subject: Re: Dumb Question
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From: "Darren McClung" <d@dwmc.org>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Dumb Question
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 19:22:35 -0500
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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> Ok someone please fill me in on the Status of Honored Enemy for the states?
> I cleaned out my mail stuff and deleted a lot of posts by mistake before I
> got a chance to read them.  What i need to know basically is about how long
> I will need to wait before it comes out and if it is going to be a awhile,
> then I will probably important it.
>

Amazon.co.uk has it cheap.  From the sound of it, I wouldn't hold my breath
as far as a US release is concerned, so you might as well go ahead and
import it.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0002247186/o/qid=/sr=8-1/ref=sr_aps
_b_1_1/026-0816745-2774821

Even after the shipping and currency conversion, you'll probably get it for
around 15$USD.

Darren



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From: "Jason Martin" <res0b95g@verizon.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Dumb Question
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 00:21:38 -0700
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Look likes amazon.uk has for $8.99 (Pounds of course).  Not sure what that
is, but all I know is its 50% off is pretty good.  I just wonder how long it
will be at that price?

Jason

"Mas Tequila!"
       Red Vodoo- Sammy Hagar
----- Original Message -----
From: "Darren McClung" <d@dwmc.org>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Friday, August 17, 2001 5:22 PM
Subject: Re: Dumb Question


> > Ok someone please fill me in on the Status of Honored Enemy for the
> states?
> > I cleaned out my mail stuff and deleted a lot of posts by mistake before I
> > got a chance to read them.  What i need to know basically is about how
> long
> > I will need to wait before it comes out and if it is going to be a awhile,
> > then I will probably important it.
> >
>
> Amazon.co.uk has it cheap.  From the sound of it, I wouldn't hold my breath
> as far as a US release is concerned, so you might as well go ahead and
> import it.
>
> http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0002247186/o/qid=/sr=8-1/ref=sr_aps
> _b_1_1/026-0816745-2774821
>
> Even after the shipping and currency conversion, you'll probably get it for
> around 15$USD.
>
> Darren
>



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References: <PCDDCHMILCKHFAAA@mailcity.com>
Subject: Re: HE from amazon.co.uk
Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 23:21:40 +1000
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From: "James Barker" <heechee@softhome.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: HE from amazon.co.uk
Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 23:21:40 +1000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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----- Original Message -----
From: Paddyjack [ ] <erykel@lycos.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2001 2:56 AM
Subject: Re: HE from amazon.co.uk

> I was wondering though, about your texan girl... how old was she??? <bg>
>Maybe she was twelve....? On the internet, you never know...<bg>
>

I hope she wasn't 12, given that she said she was 16... But then again, on
the Internet, you never know. "She" could have been some burly 18-year old
weightlifter from the Czech Republic...

Cheers,
James

P.S. How do you know that I'M not a burly 18-year old Czech weightlifter?
<BG>



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From: "C.T. Cusimano" <supert@redshift.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: HE from amazon.co.uk
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 10:34:31 -0700
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

hey
i ned help balancing my check book after ordering from amazon.com.uk
it was 8.99 pounds sterling for the book
and 4.99 pounds sterling shipping and handling
how much is that in dollars these days it still lbs X 1.5 = $?
----- Original Message -----
From: "James Barker" <heechee@softhome.net>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2001 6:21 AM
Subject: Re: HE from amazon.co.uk


>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Paddyjack [ ] <erykel@lycos.com>
> To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2001 2:56 AM
> Subject: Re: HE from amazon.co.uk
>
> > I was wondering though, about your texan girl... how old was she??? <bg>
> Maybe she was twelve....? On the internet, you never know...<bg>
> >
>
> I hope she wasn't 12, given that she said she was 16... But then again, on
> the Internet, you never know. "She" could have been some burly 18-year old
> weightlifter from the Czech Republic...
>
> Cheers,
> James
>
> P.S. How do you know that I'M not a burly 18-year old Czech weightlifter?
> <BG>
>



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From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: coinage and the Kingdom
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 13:35:05 -0400
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From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: coinage and the Kingdom
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 13:35:05 -0400
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 18 Aug 2001 17:35:05.0867 (UTC) FILETIME=[1E7335B0:01C1280C]
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Just a question that recently materalized in my brain. If gold coins are 
called soverigns, and silver coins are called royals, what are the copper 
coins called?

Are they simply just coppers?

Also are there any other coins in the kingdom, eg, bronze, platinum, tin, 
brass, electrum, wooden nickels, etc...

Adieu

Jimmy



_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp



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From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
To: midkemia@home.com
Cc: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: d20 gaming system
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 13:48:26 -0400
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From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
To: midkemia@home.com
Cc: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: d20 gaming system
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 13:48:26 -0400
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Hello Stephen:

I was just purusing your website and noticed that Midkemia press is 
discussing the possible production of a new game system set in Midkemia. 
Being a hugh fan of Ray's novels and an avid D&D gamer as well, I was 
wondering if your plans were to develop a game that was combatible with the 
very successful D20 game system that is being licenced by Wizards of the 
Coast.

I wasn't sure if I should send this email to you directly or to the 
feistfans mailing list so I forward one to each.

Adieu

Jimmy

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp



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From: "Kurt Hoffstaetter" <khoffstaetter@cfl.rr.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
References: <PCDDCHMILCKHFAAA@mailcity.com> <002801c10f8c$978b2040$f7a70ccb@heechee> <000701c1280c$0a313480$480ce4d8@redshift.com>
Subject: Re: HE from amazon.co.uk
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 13:50:26 -0400
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Kurt Hoffstaetter" <khoffstaetter@cfl.rr.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: HE from amazon.co.uk
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 13:50:26 -0400
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Coincidentally, I'm currently balancing mine. I was charged $20.04US for the
below in pounds sterling.

Best,
Kurt
www.littlebearslore.com
(Professional Lurker)

----- Original Message -----
From: "C.T. Cusimano" <supert@redshift.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2001 1:34 PM
Subject: Re: HE from amazon.co.uk


> hey
> i ned help balancing my check book after ordering from amazon.com.uk
> it was 8.99 pounds sterling for the book
> and 4.99 pounds sterling shipping and handling
> how much is that in dollars these days it still lbs X 1.5 = $?
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "James Barker" <heechee@softhome.net>
> To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2001 6:21 AM
> Subject: Re: HE from amazon.co.uk
>
>
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Paddyjack [ ] <erykel@lycos.com>
> > To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> > Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2001 2:56 AM
> > Subject: Re: HE from amazon.co.uk
> >
> > > I was wondering though, about your texan girl... how old was she??? <bg>
> > Maybe she was twelve....? On the internet, you never know...<bg>
> > >
> >
> > I hope she wasn't 12, given that she said she was 16... But then again, on
> > the Internet, you never know. "She" could have been some burly 18-year old
> > weightlifter from the Czech Republic...
> >
> > Cheers,
> > James
> >
> > P.S. How do you know that I'M not a burly 18-year old Czech weightlifter?
> > <BG>
> >
>



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From: Larry Scroggins <falling_98@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: HE from amazon.co.uk
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 11:06:35 -0700 (PDT)
From: Larry Scroggins <falling_98@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: HE from amazon.co.uk
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


 That's why I put mine on a credit card.  This way I don't have to
worry about my check book being out of balance.  I got my copy of HE
yesterday, and it looks great.  Whoever said that the European
editions have better cover art wasn't kidding.
  "C.T. Cusimano" <supert@redshift.com> wrote:
>hey
>i ned help balancing my check book after ordering from amazon.com.uk
>it was 8.99 pounds sterling for the book
>and 4.99 pounds sterling shipping and handling
>how much is that in dollars these days it still lbs X 1.5 = $?
----- Original Message -----
From: "James Barker" 
To: "FEISTFANS-L" 
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2001 6:21 AM
Subject: Re: HE from amazon.co.uk


>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Paddyjack [ ] 
> To: FEISTFANS-L 
> Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2001 2:56 AM
> Subject: Re: HE from amazon.co.uk
>
> > I was wondering though, about your texan girl... how old was she??? 
> Maybe she was twelve....? On the internet, you never know...
> >
>
> I hope she wasn't 12, given that she said she was 16... But then again, on
> the Internet, you never know. "She" could have been some burly 18-year old
> weightlifter from the Czech Republic...
>
> Cheers,
> James
>
> P.S. How do you know that I'M not a burly 18-year old Czech weightlifter?
> 
>


-----------------------------------------------------------------

Larry Scroggins


---------------------------------
Do You Yahoo!?
Make international calls for as low as $0.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger.

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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 11:18:21 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: coinage and the Kingdom
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Saturday, August 18, 2001, at 10:35 AM, James Silva wrote:

> Just a question that recently materalized in my brain. If gold coins 
> are called soverigns, and silver coins are called royals, what are the 
> copper coins called?
>
> Are they simply just coppers?

Yes.

>
> Also are there any other coins in the kingdom, eg, bronze, platinum, 
> tin, brass, electrum, wooden nickels, etc...


In the game, we had platinum and electrum, if memory serves, which were 
x10 x100 gold, and I believe mithril at x1000 (Steve?)  but as those 
were "D&Dish" I never used them in the books.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.

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From: "C.T. Cusimano" <supert@redshift.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
References: <20010818180635.98546.qmail@web10008.mail.yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: HE from amazon.co.uk
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 11:59:08 -0700
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*** EOOH ***
From: "C.T. Cusimano" <supert@redshift.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: HE from amazon.co.uk
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 11:59:08 -0700
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

thank you
I have a fear and aversion to using my credit cards 
----- Original Message ----- 
>  From: Larry Scroggins 
>  To: FEISTFANS-L 
>  Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2001 11:06 AM
>  Subject: Re: HE from amazon.co.uk
>
>
>  That's why I put mine on a credit card.  This way I don't have to worry about my check book being out of balance.  I got my copy of HE yesterday, and it looks great.  Whoever said that the European editions have better cover art wasn't kidding. 
>
>    "C.T. Cusimano" <supert@redshift.com> wrote: 
>
>    hey
>    i ned help balancing my check book after ordering from amazon.com.uk
>    it was 8.99 pounds sterling for the book
>    and 4.99 pounds sterling shipping and handling
>    how much is that in dollars these days it still lbs X 1.5 = $?
>    ----- Original Message -----
>    From: "James Barker" 
>    To: "FEISTFANS-L" 
>    Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2001 6:21 AM
>    Subject: Re: HE from amazon.co.uk
>
>
>    >
>    > ----- Original Message -----
>    > From: Paddyjack [ ] 
>    > To: FEISTFANS-L 
>    > Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2001 2:56 AM
>    > Subject: Re: HE from amazon.co.uk
>    >
>    > > I was wondering though, about your texan girl... how old was she??? 
>    > Maybe she was twelve....? On the internet, you never know...
>    > >
>    >
>    > I hope she wasn't 12, give! ! n that she said she was 16... But then again, on
>    > the Internet, you never know. "She" could have been some burly 18-year old
>    > weightlifter from the Czech Republic...
>    >
>    > Cheers,
>    > James
>    >
>    > P.S. How do you know that I'M not a burly 18-year old Czech weightlifter?
>    > 
>    >
>
>
>
>  -----------------------------------------------------------------
>
>  Larry Scroggins
>
>
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  Do You Yahoo!?
>  Make international calls for as low as $0.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger.

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From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: coinage and the Kingdom
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 15:49:20 -0400
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From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: coinage and the Kingdom
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 15:49:20 -0400
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Thanks Ray.

Adieu
Jimmy



>From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
>Subject: Re: coinage and the Kingdom
>Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 11:18:21 -0700
>
>
>On Saturday, August 18, 2001, at 10:35 AM, James Silva wrote:
>
>>Just a question that recently materalized in my brain. If gold coins
>>are called soverigns, and silver coins are called royals, what are the
>>copper coins called?
>>
>>Are they simply just coppers?
>
>Yes.
>
>>
>>Also are there any other coins in the kingdom, eg, bronze, platinum,
>>tin, brass, electrum, wooden nickels, etc...
>
>
>In the game, we had platinum and electrum, if memory serves, which were
>x10 x100 gold, and I believe mithril at x1000 (Steve?)  but as those
>were "D&Dish" I never used them in the books.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
>stupidity.


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp



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From: "Doug Triplett, Superhero in Training !!!" <trippy@dougtriplett.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Ordering For the UK
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 15:49:33 -0400
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Doug Triplett, Superhero in Training !!!" <trippy@dougtriplett.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Ordering For the UK
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 15:49:33 -0400
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

well I broke down and ordered my first books from Amazon in the UK. I
Ordered Honored Enemy, Magician, Silverthorn, and ADaS. 

The covers do look better on the newer books. I cant wait to get
them. I'll probably order the rest of Ray's books too.

I wonder if I'll get in the habit of buying a copy of every published
edition like certain other people on the list.

Well, Back to work.

Doug

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"Doug Triplett, Superhero in Training !!!" <trippy@dougtriplett.com> 
writes
>well I broke down and ordered my first books from Amazon in the UK. I
>Ordered Honored Enemy, Magician, Silverthorn, and ADaS.
> 
>The covers do look better on the newer books. I cant wait to get them. I'll
>probably order the rest of Ray's books too.
> 
>I wonder if I'll get in the habit of buying a copy of every published edition
>like certain other people on the list.
> 
>Well, Back to work.
> 
>Doug

First thing Monday morning see a doctor. If you have no known illnesses 
a Psychiatrist. If they say you are OK, I know this sweet little old 
lady who owns a book shop <G>
-- 
John

john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.

Raymond E Feist Ring
http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm



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From: "David Christensen" <damc84@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re: d20 gaming system
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 21:06:51 
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Oh, I remember this discussion. I won't go near it with a ten-foot pole :p

I would really like to see Midkemia Press relaunch products using the d20 
system myself. I wrote a particularly long post to this mailing list about 
it once, and that promtply got me flamed. *sigh*

David


>From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: midkemia@home.com
>CC: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
>Subject: d20 gaming system
>Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 13:48:26 -0400
>
>Hello Stephen:
>
>I was just purusing your website and noticed that Midkemia press is
>discussing the possible production of a new game system set in Midkemia.
>Being a hugh fan of Ray's novels and an avid D&D gamer as well, I was
>wondering if your plans were to develop a game that was combatible with the
>very successful D20 game system that is being licenced by Wizards of the
>Coast.
>
>I wasn't sure if I should send this email to you directly or to the
>feistfans mailing list so I forward one to each.
>
>Adieu
>
>Jimmy
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp



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From: "David Christensen" <damc84@hotmail.com>
To: feistfans-l@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Day of Atonement (HE Spoiler)
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 21:11:24 
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From: "David Christensen" <damc84@hotmail.com>
To: feistfans-l@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Day of Atonement (HE Spoiler)
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 21:11:24 
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S

P

O

I

L

E

R





S

P

A

C

E





The ritual day of fasting in honor of the Tsurani god of judgement that 
Asagaya and his men did strikes me as absurd. Every soldier knows better 
than to fast for obvious reasons.... another peculiar Tsurani trait?

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp



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References: <5.1.0.14.0.20010816123526.00a5bec0@nac.net> <5.1.0.14.2.20010817083945.00f0fd00@mail.swindon.wrsec.fr>
Subject: Re: HE from amazon.co.uk
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 09:03:45 +1000
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From: "A Irving" <aignome@dingoblue.net.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: HE from amazon.co.uk
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 09:03:45 +1000
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From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
> At 09:54 AM 8/16/01 -0700, Andrew Scott wrote:
> >They like to add unnecessary U's to lots of words (honour, colour) but I
> >think that's it.
> Another I've come across recently is the double/single L syndrome.
>
> I write stuff at home, spell check it.  Words like  ' traveler '
> are "spelled correctly" at home (UK spell-checker).  I take them
> to the place where I print them out where they have US spell
> checkers, and I find that they are spelled incorrectly.  The UK
> version is ' traveller '...same with revel/reveler (reveller)...
>
> rip
My copy of MS Word 2000 with the spell checker set to English (Aus) allows
bother traveller and traveler... I never noticed it before, perhaps it does
it with a lot of words.
CIAO,
           Aaron

http://www.hallofworlds.net/kerr/main.php
http://www.nightshadow.co.uk



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Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 15:52:23 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Day of Atonement (HE Spoiler)
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On Saturday, August 18, 2001, at 09:11 PM, David Christensen wrote:

> S
>
> P
>
> O
>
> I
>
> L
>
> E
>
> R
>
>
>
>
>
> S
>
> P
>
> A
>
> C
>
> E
>
>
>
>
>
> The ritual day of fasting in honor of the Tsurani god of judgement that 
> Asagaya and his men did strikes me as absurd. Every soldier knows 
> better than to fast for obvious reasons.... another peculiar Tsurani 
> trait?
>


A one day fast has no significant impact on your overall health and 
ability to deal with stress.

"Absurd" stems from your peculiar world view, i.e. many things that are 
significant to other cultures appear "absurd" to people outside of that 
culture.  There are numerous examples from clothing to dietary 
restrictions to prohibitions on social practices to rituals of religious 
significance.  And many Earth religions have the concept of 
guilt/forgiveness coupled with atonement, Jews (Yom Kippur), Christians 
(Lent) and Islam (Ramadam) to name three big obvious ones.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Subject: Re: d20 gaming system
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Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 10:01:58 +1000
From: "Jason Mulligan" <sulimo@bigpond.net.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: d20 gaming system
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On 18/08/2001 at 21:06 PM David Christensen wrote:

>Oh, I remember this discussion. I won't go near it with a ten-foot pole :p
>
>I would really like to see Midkemia Press relaunch products using the d20 
>system myself. I wrote a particularly long post to this mailing list about 
>it once, and that promtply got me flamed. *sigh*

I think it could be done, but perhaps not with a standard D20 license. You'd 
probably have to replace most of the magic system, as well as reworking the 
magic using classes.

It'd be much easier to just publish the Tome of Midkemia system. License 1st 
Edition D&D (like Kenzer have done) to cover any bits of 1e AD&D that still 
exist (if that was even needed).




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Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 18:00:52 -0700
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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: LAR <lds627@home.com>
Subject: Re: Day of Atonement (HE Spoiler)
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 18:00:52 -0700
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: LAR <lds627@home.com>
Subject: Re: Day of Atonement (HE Spoiler)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

At 03:52 PM 8/18/01 -0700, you wrote:

>On Saturday, August 18, 2001, at 09:11 PM, David Christensen wrote:
>
>>S
>>
>>P
>>
>>O
>>
>>I
>>
>>L
>>
>>E
>>
>>R
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>S
>>
>>P
>>
>>A
>>
>>C
>>
>>E
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>The ritual day of fasting in honor of the Tsurani god of judgement that 
>>Asagaya and his men did strikes me as absurd. Every soldier knows better 
>>than to fast for obvious reasons.... another peculiar Tsurani trait?
>
>
>A one day fast has no significant impact on your overall health and 
>ability to deal with stress.
>
>"Absurd" stems from your peculiar world view, i.e. many things that are 
>significant to other cultures appear "absurd" to people outside of that 
>culture.  There are numerous examples from clothing to dietary 
>restrictions to prohibitions on social practices to rituals of religious 
>significance.  And many Earth religions have the concept of 
>guilt/forgiveness coupled with atonement, Jews (Yom Kippur), Christians 
>(Lent) and Islam (Ramadam) to name three big obvious ones.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
>stupidity.


I actually considered sending an e-mail titled, Funny, you don't LOOK 
Jewish <G>.

The tirual fasting for Yom Kippur was observed by many Jews on the lines 
during WWII. Ramadan which lasts for an entire month would be much harder.

Larry



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Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 18:04:00 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Day of Atonement (HE Spoiler)
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On Saturday, August 18, 2001, at 06:00 PM, LAR wrote:
>
> The tirual fasting for Yom Kippur was observed by many Jews on the 
> lines during WWII. Ramadan which lasts for an entire month would be 
> much harder.


Actually, Ramadan requires you only fast from sunrise to sunset, and 
most nights it's a feast after the sun goes down.  If memory serves, the 
holiday tends to fall in the winter (I believe it's a lunar calendar so 
I might have that wrong) so you're only not eating from roughly 6:30 am 
to 5:00 pm in the Northern Latitudes.  Of course in the Southern 
Hemisphere you're probably damned hungry by sundown.

Best, R.E.F.



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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Trevor Elbourne <trevor@adaptivelogic.com>
Subject: Re: Day of Atonement (HE Spoiler)
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Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 09:38:36 +1000
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Trevor Elbourne <trevor@adaptivelogic.com>
Subject: Re: Day of Atonement (HE Spoiler)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

At 11:04 AM 8/19/2001, you wrote:
>On Saturday, August 18, 2001, at 06:00 PM, LAR wrote:
>>The tirual fasting for Yom Kippur was observed by many Jews on the lines
>>during WWII. Ramadan which lasts for an entire month would be much
>>harder.
>
>Actually, Ramadan requires you only fast from sunrise to sunset, and most
>nights it's a feast after the sun goes down.  If memory serves, the
>holiday tends to fall in the winter (I believe it's a lunar calendar so I
>might have that wrong) so you're only not eating from roughly 6:30 am to
>5:00 pm in the Northern Latitudes.  Of course in the Southern
>Hemisphere you're probably damned hungry by sundown.

The time of year during which Ramadan is observed changes. I forget how
it works, but I think it moves a day each year, or something like that.
Keeping in mind that you are not allowed to consume anything, not even
water, between sunrise and sunset, it's pretty tough. Especially when it
falls in summer, which it does currently here in the southern hemisphere
I think. Because they can eat between sunset and sunrise, they fit in two
meals in that time which means they end up having breakfast at something
like 4-5 am.

Cheers,
Trevor.
-- 
"Common sense is not so common." - Voltaire

Trevor Elbourne
mailto:trevor@adaptivelogic.com
http://www.adaptivelogic.com

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Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 22:26:03 -0400
From: "Paddyjack [ ]" <erykel@lycos.com>
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Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 22:26:03 -0400
From: "Paddyjack [ ]" <erykel@lycos.com>
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For those who want to know how much HE will cost when ordering from
Amazon.uk, there is this very easy website doing it in every possible
currencies.

http://www.currency.co.nz/

I worked for me.

PJ


Get 250 color business cards for FREE!
http://businesscards.lycos.com/vp/fastpath/



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Subject: Re: Day of Atonement (HE Spoiler)
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Julie Wootten" <wootten@xtra.co.nz>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Day of Atonement (HE Spoiler)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 15:13:35 +1200
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I worked in indonesia for a couple of years - I believe the biggest Muslim 
population in the world.  There are differences in how strictly the laws are 
followed.  But I remember Ramadan being quite tough on the people I 
worked with.  A country like that, the days are long and hot and humid.  
Couple that with physical outside work, and not being able to even drink 
water... it's a pretty big ask.  Most of the people where I was believed that 
there shouldn't be feasting or celebration in the evenings during Ramadan.  
But there was a whole heap of partying going on in the traditional 
feasting following it.

Julie.

>The time of year during which Ramadan is observed changes. I forget how it works, but I think it >moves a day each year, or something like that. Keeping in mind that you are not allowed to >consume anything, not even water, between sunrise and sunset, it's pretty tough. Especially when it >falls in summer, which it does currently here in the southern hemisphere I think. Because they can >eat between sunset and sunrise, they fit in two meals in that time which means they end up having >breakfast at something like 4-5 am.
>
>Cheers,
>Trevor.

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Subject: Re: d20 gaming system
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 15:10:56 +0800
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Ben Lloyd" <benlloyd@wn.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: d20 gaming system
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 15:10:56 +0800
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

How did I manage to receive this, since my e-mail address is
benlloyd@wn.com.au , and this email wasn't sent to the list.

---------------
Ben Lloyd
----- Original Message -----
From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
To: <midkemia@home.com>
Cc: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2001 1:48 AM
Subject: d20 gaming system


> Hello Stephen:
>
> I was just purusing your website and noticed that Midkemia press is
> discussing the possible production of a new game system set in Midkemia.
> Being a hugh fan of Ray's novels and an avid D&D gamer as well, I was
> wondering if your plans were to develop a game that was combatible with the
> very successful D20 game system that is being licenced by Wizards of the
> Coast.
>
> I wasn't sure if I should send this email to you directly or to the
> feistfans mailing list so I forward one to each.
>
> Adieu
>
> Jimmy
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>



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From: John <john@crydee.com>
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From: John <john@crydee.com>
Subject: Re: d20 gaming system
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Ben Lloyd <benlloyd@wn.com.au> writes
>How did I manage to receive this, since my e-mail address is
>benlloyd@wn.com.au , and this email wasn't sent to the list.
>
>---------------
>Ben Lloyd
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
>To: <midkemia@home.com>
>Cc: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
>Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2001 1:48 AM
>Subject: d20 gaming system
>

Quite easy, the list was in the CC so if your on the list you get a copy

-- 
John

john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.

Raymond E Feist Ring
http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm



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Subject: Re: Day of Atonement (HE Spoiler)
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Subject: Re: Day of Atonement (HE Spoiler)
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At 18:04 18/08/01 -0700, you wrote:
>Actually, Ramadan requires you only fast from sunrise to sunset, and most 
>nights it's a feast after the sun goes down.  If memory serves, the 
>holiday tends to fall in the winter (I believe it's a lunar calendar so I 
>might have that wrong) so you're only not eating from roughly 6:30 am to 
>5:00 pm in the Northern Latitudes.  Of course in the Southern Hemisphere 
>you're probably damned hungry by sundown.


         Just as a comment on the original point about soldiers: if my 
comparative religions teacher is to be believed, soldiers are specifically 
exempted from having to observe Ramadan, along with children and the elderly.
         Ramadan does indeed move through the year, as the Islamic calendar 
doesn't have the same number of days as the Western one.  I've always 
thought this somewhat harsh on British Muslims when it falls during the 
summer - the sun can rise as early as 3.30 or 4 AM, and stay up until 9 or 
10 PM.
Ben Fletcher
http://ben.fletchers-uk.org
------------------------------
If it can be remedied, why be unhappy about it?
If it cannot be remedied, what use is being unhappy about it?
Bodhicaryavatara, VI/10



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Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 13:26:05 +0200
From: Erik Trulsson <ertr1013@student.uu.se>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Sun, Aug 19, 2001 at 11:52:39AM +0100, Ben Fletcher wrote:
> At 18:04 18/08/01 -0700, you wrote:
> >Actually, Ramadan requires you only fast from sunrise to sunset, and most 
> >nights it's a feast after the sun goes down.  If memory serves, the 
> >holiday tends to fall in the winter (I believe it's a lunar calendar so I 
> >might have that wrong) so you're only not eating from roughly 6:30 am to 
> >5:00 pm in the Northern Latitudes.  Of course in the Southern Hemisphere 
> >you're probably damned hungry by sundown.
> 
> 
>         Just as a comment on the original point about soldiers: if my 
> comparative religions teacher is to be believed, soldiers are specifically 
> exempted from having to observe Ramadan, along with children and the 
> elderly.
>         Ramadan does indeed move through the year, as the Islamic calendar 
> doesn't have the same number of days as the Western one.  I've always 
> thought this somewhat harsh on British Muslims when it falls during the 
> summer - the sun can rise as early as 3.30 or 4 AM, and stay up until 9 or 
> 10 PM.

It must be even worse for Muslims living in the northern parts of
Sweden.  That is north of the polecircle, so around midsummer the sun
never goes below the horizon. I don't know how they solve it but I guess
they do somehow.
(Of course, when Ramadan happens during winter it is nicer. Then there
are days when the sun never gets above the horizon.)


-- 
<Insert your favourite quote here.>
Erik Trulsson
ertr1013@student.uu.se



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From: "Chris Smith" <cjs94@zepler.org.uk>
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Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 12:59:09 +0100
Subject: Re: HE Thoughts, some angrier than others
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From: "Chris Smith" <cjs94@zepler.org.uk>
To: feistfans-l@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 12:59:09 +0100
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On 15 Aug 2001, at 13:12, STEPHEN M RUSSELL wrote:

<snip>
> Even more troubling, however, was the huge number of spelling and
> punctuation errors (relatively speaking).  Ray's recent books have shown a
> lack of polish in this area, and HE is the worst of the bunch.  It starts
> almost immediately with the damn/damp hair typo, and there are many other
> similar mistakes.  Also, there were missing punctuation marks at times
> (mainly commas).  I get pretty insulted when, upon shelling out $30 for a
> hardcover (since I bought it from amazon.uk), I find I have bought
> something so full of errors - especially errors that result from nothing
> more than laziness.  I am not sure who to blame for the mess.  Ray doesn't

With reference to the spelling mistakes, may I point out the obvious 
explanation?

1. You are American (my assumption, based upon your currency, .edu 
address and job title).
2. The book you purchased is British.

Is it not possible that the mistakes to which you refer are simply 
the (correct*) British spellings?

I have not noticed any obvious spelling mistakes** so far, which is 
not surprising since I read a book to enjoy the story, not to pick 
nits; if I wanted to pick nits, I'd go play with the orangutans.

Chris.
* Yes, this is a needle. :-)
** In HE, not this message.

--
Chris Smith
Work: chris.smith@tfbplc.co.uk     Home: cjs94@zepler.org.uk
PGP Key available from public key servers; Key ID 0xA9DA8E79
"Veni, vidi, velcro." - "I came, I saw, I stuck around."



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 Seriously read the book to enjoy it your acting like my grandma
(always complaining somthing is not correct). Then again I did notice
a series of mistakes in A Darkness at Sethanon but nothing to big. Oh
and also what is a citadel? They had one in armengar and I never was
quite sure what it was.



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From: "David Christensen" <damc84@hotmail.com>
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What Ben said.

The fact that soldiers are specifically excempted from observing Ramadan 
proves my point- it is suicidal to fast, of all things, during wartime.

I actually tried fasting, for one day, once. Not because of anything 
religious, I just heard somewhere that you could clean your system that way 
(and I had been suffering from a bad stomach for several days), but 
anyways.... for a whole day I tried not to consume anything except water, 
and already at noon I could feel that it was sapping me of strength. I was 
out playing soccer with my brothers, and I was astonished at how much I 
could actually feel it. By the time I had to go to bed I coudn't hack it 
anymore, and promptly gorged myself in the kitchen.


>From: Ben Fletcher <ben.fletcher@sjc.ox.ac.uk>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
>Subject: Re: Day of Atonement (HE Spoiler)
>Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 11:52:39 +0100
>
>At 18:04 18/08/01 -0700, you wrote:
>>Actually, Ramadan requires you only fast from sunrise to sunset, and most
>>nights it's a feast after the sun goes down.  If memory serves, the
>>holiday tends to fall in the winter (I believe it's a lunar calendar so I
>>might have that wrong) so you're only not eating from roughly 6:30 am to
>>5:00 pm in the Northern Latitudes.  Of course in the Southern Hemisphere
>>you're probably damned hungry by sundown.
>
>
>         Just as a comment on the original point about soldiers: if my
>comparative religions teacher is to be believed, soldiers are specifically
>exempted from having to observe Ramadan, along with children and the 
>elderly.
>         Ramadan does indeed move through the year, as the Islamic calendar
>doesn't have the same number of days as the Western one.  I've always
>thought this somewhat harsh on British Muslims when it falls during the
>summer - the sun can rise as early as 3.30 or 4 AM, and stay up until 9 or
>10 PM.
>Ben Fletcher
>http://ben.fletchers-uk.org
>------------------------------
>If it can be remedied, why be unhappy about it?
>If it cannot be remedied, what use is being unhappy about it?
>Bodhicaryavatara, VI/10
>


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp



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From: Elfines@aol.com
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 11:12:25 EDT
Subject: Re: HE Thoughts, some angrier than others
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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hello 

My name is maïa and you ??

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From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 08:14:28 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: HE Thoughts, some angrier than others
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On Sunday, August 19, 2001, at 07:55 AM, Valheru89@aol.com wrote:

>  Seriously read the book to enjoy it your acting like my grandma 
> (always complaining somthing is not correct). Then again I did notice a 
> series of mistakes in A Darkness at Sethanon but nothing to big. Oh and 
> also what is a citadel? They had one in armengar and I never was quite 
> sure what it was.
>
>

A citadel is a castle within city walls.  Usually, they evolved this way:

Noble builds castle with village surrounding it, surrounded by walls.  
Foulbourgh--city outside the walls--develops.  Noble's descendant 
eventually builds walls around foulbourgh thereby enlarging walled 
city.  Original interior walls is torn down (or not, depending) thereby 
leaving you with a city with a big old castle sitting in the middle of 
it.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Subject: Re: HE Thoughts, some angrier than others
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*** EOOH ***
From: Valheru89@aol.com
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 15:32:27 EDT
Subject: Re: HE Thoughts, some angrier than others
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
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Thank you



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*** EOOH ***
From: KSimon67@aol.com
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 16:37:16 EDT
Subject: Re: HE Thoughts, some angrier than others
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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In a message dated 8/19/2001 8:16:05 AM Pacific Daylight Time, 
Elfines@aol.com writes:


> hello 
> 
> My name is maïa and you ??

To quote Travis Bickle, "You talkin' to me?"

Maia, this is a mailing list for Feistfans, so your email went to the list. 
There are many of us here.

Welcome.

Karl

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From: Allan Mills <milla@css.com.au>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" (FEISTFANS-L) <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: HE from amazon.co.uk
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 08:56:09 +1000
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*** EOOH ***
From: Allan Mills <milla@css.com.au>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" (FEISTFANS-L) <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: HE from amazon.co.uk
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 08:56:09 +1000
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: James Barker [mailto:heechee@softhome.net]
> Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2001 11:52 PM
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Subject: Re: HE from amazon.co.uk
> 
> LOL, now that is classy... There is so much fun to be had 
> with Americans who
> should know better... :)
> 
> The other day, I convinced some girl (who came from Texas 
> *grin*) over ICQ
> that I had a pet kangaroo called Skippy, and I rode him to 
> and from school
> everyday through the outback while the emus carried my bags. And don't
> forget the thongs and the hat with corks dangling from it... :))
> 
> My apologies to all the smart Americans on the list, but 
> there are so many
> Americans who can be called, for lack of a better word, stupid...
> 
> Cheers,
> James
> 
> P.S. We have a lot of stupid Australians, too, for that 
> matter. A large
> proportion of them seem to be One Nation supporters... :)
> 
> 

 Stupid is subjective. You can't call someone stupid for believing your lies
if they have no reason to know any better. She could be considered guillible
but again that's subjective, she has no way of knowing if you are telling
the truth or not and it would be a mark against her is she was skeptical of
everything you said.

 All things considered you are being rude by lying to people over the
internet. You might consider it harmless fun but lying is lying.

 Allan



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From: Allan Mills <milla@css.com.au>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" (FEISTFANS-L) <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: ADMIN: Re: WHAT???????WHOS CALVIN SHOULDNT??????
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 08:58:54 +1000
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*** EOOH ***
From: Allan Mills <milla@css.com.au>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" (FEISTFANS-L) <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: ADMIN: Re: WHAT???????WHOS CALVIN SHOULDNT??????
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 08:58:54 +1000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu



> -----Original Message-----
> From: Raine and Jamie [mailto:ashika@pcisys.net]
> Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2001 6:09 AM
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Subject: Re: ADMIN: Re: WHAT???????WHOS CALVIN SHOULDNT??????
> 
> 
> I wonder if Clavin knows how much control he has over this 
> list. As Russell
> said, he posts on the list every so often. This stirs the 
> entire list up,
> Calvin gets banned yet again and all we hear of on the list 
> for the next
> several days is what a troll Calvin is.
> 
 I suspect he probably has a second hotmail account set up to monitor the
results of his latest troll before he posts on his first one. In which case
he's probably reading this posting. Calvin, get a life you loser.

 Allan


> BTW.....the above statement goes for anyone who joins the list that is
> annoying and there has been at least 2 in the last month. 
> Thus ending this
> post I must ask each or you a question. Were you not annoying 
> between the
> ages of 12 and 16. I know I was.
> 
> Raine



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From: Allan Mills <milla@css.com.au>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" (FEISTFANS-L) <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: coinage and the Kingdom
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 09:16:38 +1000
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*** EOOH ***
From: Allan Mills <milla@css.com.au>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" (FEISTFANS-L) <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: coinage and the Kingdom
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 09:16:38 +1000
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


 Probably a good idea. Isn't mithril even stronger than steel ? The Tsurani
wouldn't have had a chance against mithril arms and armour.  

 Allan

-----Original Message-----
>From: Raymond Feist [mailto:raymond@bittersea.com]
>Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2001 4:18 AM
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: Re: coinage and the Kingdom
>
>
>
>
>
>In the game, we had platinum and electrum, if memory serves, which were x10
>x100 gold, and I believe mithril at x1000 (Steve?) but as those were
>"D&Dish" I never used them in the books. 
>
>
>Best, R.E.F. 
>---- 
>
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
>stupidity.
>


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From: Allan Mills <milla@css.com.au>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" (FEISTFANS-L) <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Day of Atonement
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 09:32:47 +1000
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*** EOOH ***
From: Allan Mills <milla@css.com.au>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" (FEISTFANS-L) <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Day of Atonement
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 09:32:47 +1000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu



> -----Original Message-----
> From: David Christensen [mailto:damc84@hotmail.com]
> Sent: Monday, August 20, 2001 12:57 AM
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Subject: Re: Day of Atonement
> 
> 
> What Ben said.
> 
> The fact that soldiers are specifically excempted from 
> observing Ramadan 
> proves my point- it is suicidal to fast, of all things, 
> during wartime.
> 
> I actually tried fasting, for one day, once. Not because of anything 
> religious, I just heard somewhere that you could clean your 
> system that way 
> (and I had been suffering from a bad stomach for several days), but 
> anyways.... for a whole day I tried not to consume anything 
> except water, 
> and already at noon I could feel that it was sapping me of 
> strength. I was 
> out playing soccer with my brothers, and I was astonished at 
> how much I 
> could actually feel it. By the time I had to go to bed I 
> coudn't hack it 
> anymore, and promptly gorged myself in the kitchen.
> 

 I've noticed the same effect myself, your body noticably weakens without
food. In the case of the Tsurani though, they had the Kingdom soldiers to
guard them while they fasted so their weakness wouldn't have been a problem.

 Allan



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 16:47:42 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Day of Atonement
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Sunday, August 19, 2001, at 04:32 PM, Allan Mills wrote:

>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: David Christensen [mailto:damc84@hotmail.com]
>> Sent: Monday, August 20, 2001 12:57 AM
>> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>> Subject: Re: Day of Atonement
>>
>>
>> What Ben said.
>>
>> The fact that soldiers are specifically excempted from
>> observing Ramadan
>> proves my point- it is suicidal to fast, of all things,
>> during wartime.
>>
>> I actually tried fasting, for one day, once. Not because of anything
>> religious, I just heard somewhere that you could clean your
>> system that way
>> (and I had been suffering from a bad stomach for several days), but
>> anyways.... for a whole day I tried not to consume anything
>> except water,
>> and already at noon I could feel that it was sapping me of
>> strength. I was
>> out playing soccer with my brothers, and I was astonished at
>> how much I
>> could actually feel it. By the time I had to go to bed I
>> coudn't hack it
>> anymore, and promptly gorged myself in the kitchen.
>>
>
>  I've noticed the same effect myself, your body noticably weakens 
> without
> food. In the case of the Tsurani though, they had the Kingdom soldiers 
> to
> guard them while they fasted so their weakness wouldn't have been a 
> problem.
>
>  Allan
>
>


Must be differences in physiology.  I'm a 55 year old guy and I 
routinely fast for 24-48 hours from time to time, and never notice any 
drop off of strength.  In fact, except for hunger (and boy do I want to 
EAT when the fasting period is over), if anything I feel better during 
and after.  More energy, less lethargy.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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From: Allan Mills <milla@css.com.au>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" (FEISTFANS-L) <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Day of Atonement
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 09:55:57 +1000
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*** EOOH ***
From: Allan Mills <milla@css.com.au>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" (FEISTFANS-L) <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Day of Atonement
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 09:55:57 +1000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu



> -----Original Message-----
> From: Raymond Feist [mailto:raymond@bittersea.com]
> Sent: Monday, August 20, 2001 9:48 AM
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Subject: Re: Day of Atonement
> 
> 
> 
> On Sunday, August 19, 2001, at 04:32 PM, Allan Mills wrote:
> 
> >
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: David Christensen [mailto:damc84@hotmail.com]
> >> Sent: Monday, August 20, 2001 12:57 AM
> >> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> >> Subject: Re: Day of Atonement
> >>
> >>
> >> What Ben said.
> >>
> >> The fact that soldiers are specifically excempted from
> >> observing Ramadan
> >> proves my point- it is suicidal to fast, of all things,
> >> during wartime.
> >>
> >> I actually tried fasting, for one day, once. Not because 
> of anything
> >> religious, I just heard somewhere that you could clean your
> >> system that way
> >> (and I had been suffering from a bad stomach for several days), but
> >> anyways.... for a whole day I tried not to consume anything
> >> except water,
> >> and already at noon I could feel that it was sapping me of
> >> strength. I was
> >> out playing soccer with my brothers, and I was astonished at
> >> how much I
> >> could actually feel it. By the time I had to go to bed I
> >> coudn't hack it
> >> anymore, and promptly gorged myself in the kitchen.
> >>
> >
> >  I've noticed the same effect myself, your body noticably weakens 
> > without
> > food. In the case of the Tsurani though, they had the 
> Kingdom soldiers 
> > to
> > guard them while they fasted so their weakness wouldn't have been a 
> > problem.
> >
> >  Allan
> >
> >
> 
> 
> Must be differences in physiology.  I'm a 55 year old guy and I 
> routinely fast for 24-48 hours from time to time, and never 
> notice any 
> drop off of strength.  In fact, except for hunger (and boy do 
> I want to 
> EAT when the fasting period is over), if anything I feel 
> better during 
> and after.  More energy, less lethargy.
> 
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
> 
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be 
> explained away by 
> stupidity.
> 
> 

 It could also be a difference in diet. I eat a fair amount of sugary and
fatty foods so my body might be expecting to get energy from what I eat. Any
medical types on this list ?

 Allan



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Subject: Re: d20 gaming system
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 19:22:26 -0700
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From: kuros@pgtv.net (kuros)
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: d20 gaming system
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 19:22:26 -0700
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I think you addressed that to the wrong person. =) My name is Fletcher, not
Stephen.

Kuros

----- Original Message -----
From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
To: <midkemia@home.com>
Cc: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2001 10:48 AM
Subject: d20 gaming system


> Hello Stephen:
>
> I was just purusing your website and noticed that Midkemia press is
> discussing the possible production of a new game system set in Midkemia.
> Being a hugh fan of Ray's novels and an avid D&D gamer as well, I was
> wondering if your plans were to develop a game that was combatible with the
> very successful D20 game system that is being licenced by Wizards of the
> Coast.
>
> I wasn't sure if I should send this email to you directly or to the
> feistfans mailing list so I forward one to each.
>
> Adieu
>
> Jimmy
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>
>



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Subject: Re: d20 gaming system
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From: kuros@pgtv.net (kuros)
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: d20 gaming system
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 19:32:47 -0700
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Ah...oops? Sorry, I didn't realize what had happened. Please excuse the
extra messages.

Kuros
----- Original Message -----
From: "kuros" <kuros@pgtv.net>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2001 7:22 PM
Subject: Re: d20 gaming system


> I think you addressed that to the wrong person. =) My name is Fletcher, not
> Stephen.
>
> Kuros
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
> To: <midkemia@home.com>
> Cc: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2001 10:48 AM
> Subject: d20 gaming system
>
>
> > Hello Stephen:
> >
> > I was just purusing your website and noticed that Midkemia press is
> > discussing the possible production of a new game system set in Midkemia.
> > Being a hugh fan of Ray's novels and an avid D&D gamer as well, I was
> > wondering if your plans were to develop a game that was combatible with
> the
> > very successful D20 game system that is being licenced by Wizards of the
> > Coast.
> >
> > I wasn't sure if I should send this email to you directly or to the
> > feistfans mailing list so I forward one to each.
> >
> > Adieu
> >
> > Jimmy
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
> >
> >
>
>



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From: kuros@pgtv.net (kuros)
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
References: <E3A4AA1DA7B41849A632450233B5423A177E75@css01.css.com.au>
Subject: Re: ADMIN: Re: WHAT???????WHOS CALVIN SHOULDNT??????
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 19:29:46 -0700
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*** EOOH ***
From: kuros@pgtv.net (kuros)
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: ADMIN: Re: WHAT???????WHOS CALVIN SHOULDNT??????
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 19:29:46 -0700
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Now now, we all know that no one is at fault for their bad actions. He
obviously has bipolar disorder, or some other obscure psychological problem.
He should immediatly be given a house, car, and food at the expense of the
taxpayers.

Kuros

"It is better to be hated for who you are, than to be loved for who you are
not." -Seen on a sticker

P.S. "Please note the sarcasm tags. =)"
----- Original Message -----
From: "Allan Mills" <milla@css.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2001 3:58 PM
Subject: RE: ADMIN: Re: WHAT???????WHOS CALVIN SHOULDNT??????


>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Raine and Jamie [mailto:ashika@pcisys.net]
> > Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2001 6:09 AM
> > To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > Subject: Re: ADMIN: Re: WHAT???????WHOS CALVIN SHOULDNT??????
> >
> >
> > I wonder if Clavin knows how much control he has over this
> > list. As Russell
> > said, he posts on the list every so often. This stirs the
> > entire list up,
> > Calvin gets banned yet again and all we hear of on the list
> > for the next
> > several days is what a troll Calvin is.
> >
>  I suspect he probably has a second hotmail account set up to monitor the
> results of his latest troll before he posts on his first one. In which case
> he's probably reading this posting. Calvin, get a life you loser.
>
>  Allan
>
>
> > BTW.....the above statement goes for anyone who joins the list that is
> > annoying and there has been at least 2 in the last month.
> > Thus ending this
> > post I must ask each or you a question. Were you not annoying
> > between the
> > ages of 12 and 16. I know I was.
> >
> > Raine
>
>



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From: "greg batman" <pollux@swirve.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 20:08:29 -0500
Subject: Re: Day of Atonement
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*** EOOH ***
From: "greg batman" <pollux@swirve.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 20:08:29 -0500
Subject: Re: Day of Atonement
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

> >>Actually, Ramadan requires you only fast from sunrise to sunset, and most
> >>nights it's a feast after the sun goes down.  If memory serves, the
> >>holiday tends to fall in the winter (I believe it's a lunar calendar so I
> >>might have that wrong) so you're only not eating from roughly 6:30 am to
> >>5:00 pm in the Northern Latitudes.  Of course in the Southern Hemisphere
> >>you're probably damned hungry by sundown.

Ramadan occurs earlier each year, due to differences in the calendar.
most muslims start the day at 4-5 a.m., and eat after sunset.  of
course, pregnant women, women during *certain* times, and sick people
are off the hook, but should make up for the missed days.  in general,
the body doesn't end up losing too much energy, and while it is a
sacrifice, it doesn't cause any physical problems.  
-- 

_______________________________________________
Get Free Email at Swirve.com, http://www.swirve.com



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Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 22:17:50 EDT
Subject: RE: ADMIN: Re: WHAT???????WHOS CALVIN SHOULDNT??????
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*** EOOH ***
From: Valheru89@aol.com
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 22:17:50 EDT
Subject: RE: ADMIN: Re: WHAT???????WHOS CALVIN SHOULDNT??????
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
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What did calvin do to make you call him a loser



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Subject: Re: HE at Amazon
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 06:15:03 +0200
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Ragnar E. Sørensen" <ragnares@online.no>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: HE at Amazon
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 06:15:03 +0200
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


> Hi everyone!
>
> Just thought you'd all like to know that Honoured Enemy is now selling at
> 50% off through amazon.co.uk.
>
> For all those that held out - nows the time to buy it!! :)
>
> Natalie
>
>

Hmm, I wonder how many pizza's worth of saving that would have been, from
£13.99 to £8.99 (+£3.95 shipping). Actually I don't, its about 2 frozen
pizza's. And before some Norwegian asks, the answer to that question is
probably yes. :p

Sincerely,
Ragnar E. Sørensen



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Subject: Re: Day of Atonement
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From: "A Irving" <aignome@dingoblue.net.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Day of Atonement
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 17:49:08 +1000
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From: David Christensen <damc84@hotmail.com>
> What Ben said.
>
> The fact that soldiers are specifically excempted from observing Ramadan
> proves my point- it is suicidal to fast, of all things, during wartime.
>
> I actually tried fasting, for one day, once. Not because of anything
> religious, I just heard somewhere that you could clean your system that way
> (and I had been suffering from a bad stomach for several days), but
> anyways.... for a whole day I tried not to consume anything except water,
> and already at noon I could feel that it was sapping me of strength. I was
> out playing soccer with my brothers, and I was astonished at how much I
> could actually feel it. By the time I had to go to bed I coudn't hack it
> anymore, and promptly gorged myself in the kitchen.
>
I have fasted several times for World Visions' 40 Hour Famine, however you
are allowed water and barley sugar, I started it once with taking water but
no barley sugar, then after playing school soccer was so tired and exhausted
I gave in and had the barley sugar (basically pure sugar, so lots of energy
I guess)



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From: "Cameron Duncan" <cduncan@amadeus.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Ordering For the UK
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 18:22:25 +1000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Cameron Duncan" <cduncan@amadeus.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Ordering For the UK
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 18:22:25 +1000
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Don't do it Doug, it costs a fortune! :)

Cameron
>  -----Original Message-----
>  From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Doug Triplett, Superhero
>in Training !!!
>  Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2001 5:50
>  To: FEISTFANS-L
>  Subject: Ordering For the UK
>
>
>  well I broke down and ordered my first books from Amazon in the UK. I
>Ordered Honored Enemy, Magician, Silverthorn, and ADaS.
>
>  The covers do look better on the newer books. I cant wait to get them.
>I'll probably order the rest of Ray's books too.
>
>  I wonder if I'll get in the habit of buying a copy of every published
>edition like certain other people on the list.
>
>  Well, Back to work.
>
>  Doug

1, edited,,
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From: "James Barker" <heechee@softhome.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
References: <E3A4AA1DA7B41849A632450233B5423A177E74@css01.css.com.au>
Subject: Re: HE from amazon.co.uk
Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 18:36:45 +1000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Barker" <heechee@softhome.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: HE from amazon.co.uk
Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 18:36:45 +1000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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----- Original Message -----
From: Allan Mills <milla@css.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Monday, August 20, 2001 8:56 AM
Subject: RE: HE from amazon.co.uk

>  Stupid is subjective. You can't call someone stupid for believing your lies
> if they have no reason to know any better. She could be considered guillible
> but again that's subjective, she has no way of knowing if you are telling
> the truth or not and it would be a mark against her is she was skeptical of
> everything you said.

OK, perhaps "stupid" was the wrong word. Perhaps expecting a young adult
from a more-or-less literate country to know a bit more about a fairly
unique foreign nation than "they have kangaroos there" is unreasonable. On
the other hand, as I said before, "stupid" was probably an overly harsh
word. "Gullible," and maybe "uninformed" would be much more correct. <G>

>  All things considered you are being rude by lying to people over the
> internet. You might consider it harmless fun but lying is lying.

Actually, I would consider it a demonstration of the ancient art known as
"taking the piss." When I told her that I was joking, she saw the humour in
it. Of course, you are welcome not to. :)

So my public apologies to the (on this list, at least) nameless American
teenager who was mercilessly taken for a ride by a guy whose only advantage
was to be born in a country which has kangaroos. <BG>

Cheers,
James
heechee@softhome.net for flames, etc.



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From: "Donal K. Fellows" <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
In-reply-to: <20010819132605.A11610@student.uu.se> (message from Erik Trulsson
	on Sun, 19 Aug 2001 13:26:05 +0200)
Subject: Re: Day of Atonement (HE Spoiler)
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20010818175937.01f50080@mail> <5.1.0.14.0.20010819114921.00a2db60@sjoh1283.herald.ox.ac.uk> <20010819132605.A11610@student.uu.se>
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From: "Donal K. Fellows" <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Day of Atonement (HE Spoiler)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 10:54:42 +0100
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Erik Trulsson <ertr1013@student.uu.se>
> It must be even worse for Muslims living in the northern parts of
> Sweden.  That is north of the polecircle, so around midsummer the sun
> never goes below the horizon. I don't know how they solve it but I guess
> they do somehow.
> (Of course, when Ramadan happens during winter it is nicer. Then there
> are days when the sun never gets above the horizon.)

According to a Muslim friend, there is a standardization of the day
length (probably to say that it is never longer than a certain amount,
or shorter than some other value; I didn't inquire about the technical
details) which stops Ramadan from being something of a farce in the
far north or south.

Donal.
-- 
Donal K. Fellows, Department of Computer Science, University of Manchester, UK.
(work) fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk     Tel: +44-161-275-6137  (preferred email addr.)
(home) donal@ugglan.demon.co.uk  Tel: +44-1274-401017   Mobile: +44-7957-298955
http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~fellowsd/  (Don't quote my .sig; I've seen it before!)



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From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: d20 gaming system
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 09:46:05 -0400
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From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: d20 gaming system
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 09:46:05 -0400
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I am relatively new to the mailing list, about 3 months now, so any heated 
discussions that transpired are news to me. Anyhow, I just thought that if a 
new midkemia based game was POSSIBLY going to be released, that the d20 
system would be an ideal system to use.

Adieu

Jimmy

>From: "David Christensen" <damc84@hotmail.com>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
>Subject: Re: d20 gaming system
>Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 21:06:51
>
>Oh, I remember this discussion. I won't go near it with a ten-foot pole :p
>
>I would really like to see Midkemia Press relaunch products using the d20
>system myself. I wrote a particularly long post to this mailing list about
>it once, and that promtply got me flamed. *sigh*
>
>David
>
>
>>From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
>>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>>To: midkemia@home.com
>>CC: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
>>Subject: d20 gaming system
>>Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 13:48:26 -0400
>>
>>Hello Stephen:
>>
>>I was just purusing your website and noticed that Midkemia press is
>>discussing the possible production of a new game system set in Midkemia.
>>Being a hugh fan of Ray's novels and an avid D&D gamer as well, I was
>>wondering if your plans were to develop a game that was combatible with 
>>the
>>very successful D20 game system that is being licenced by Wizards of the
>>Coast.
>>
>>I wasn't sure if I should send this email to you directly or to the
>>feistfans mailing list so I forward one to each.
>>
>>Adieu
>>
>>Jimmy
>>
>>_________________________________________________________________
>>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>>
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp



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From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: d20 gaming system
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 09:51:19 -0400
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From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: d20 gaming system
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 09:51:19 -0400
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Gremlins in cyberspace must have diverted it to you. :)

Adieu

Jimmy


>From: "Ben Lloyd" <benlloyd@wn.com.au>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
>Subject: Re: d20 gaming system
>Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 15:10:56 +0800
>
>How did I manage to receive this, since my e-mail address is
>benlloyd@wn.com.au , and this email wasn't sent to the list.
>
>---------------
>Ben Lloyd
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
>To: <midkemia@home.com>
>Cc: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
>Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2001 1:48 AM
>Subject: d20 gaming system
>
>
> > Hello Stephen:
> >
> > I was just purusing your website and noticed that Midkemia press is
> > discussing the possible production of a new game system set in Midkemia.
> > Being a hugh fan of Ray's novels and an avid D&D gamer as well, I was
> > wondering if your plans were to develop a game that was combatible with
>the
> > very successful D20 game system that is being licenced by Wizards of the
> > Coast.
> >
> > I wasn't sure if I should send this email to you directly or to the
> > feistfans mailing list so I forward one to each.
> >
> > Adieu
> >
> > Jimmy
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at 
>http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
> >
>


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp



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From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: HE from amazon.co.uk
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 09:59:17 -0400
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From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: HE from amazon.co.uk
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 09:59:17 -0400
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Mr. James Barker, As an American, with a good deal of non American friends 
and acquaintences, I have only one comment for you:

There are so many HUMANS that can be called, for lack of a better 
word...stupid. To limit this trait to one nation, is, for lack of a better 
word...stupid. :)

Adieu

Jimmy


>From: Allan Mills <milla@css.com.au>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" (FEISTFANS-L) <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
>Subject: RE: HE from amazon.co.uk
>Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 08:56:09 +1000
>
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: James Barker [mailto:heechee@softhome.net]
> > Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2001 11:52 PM
> > To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > Subject: Re: HE from amazon.co.uk
> >
> > LOL, now that is classy... There is so much fun to be had
> > with Americans who
> > should know better... :)
> >
> > The other day, I convinced some girl (who came from Texas
> > *grin*) over ICQ
> > that I had a pet kangaroo called Skippy, and I rode him to
> > and from school
> > everyday through the outback while the emus carried my bags. And don't
> > forget the thongs and the hat with corks dangling from it... :))
> >
> > My apologies to all the smart Americans on the list, but
> > there are so many
> > Americans who can be called, for lack of a better word, stupid...
> >
> > Cheers,
> > James
> >
> > P.S. We have a lot of stupid Australians, too, for that
> > matter. A large
> > proportion of them seem to be One Nation supporters... :)
> >
> >
>
>  Stupid is subjective. You can't call someone stupid for believing your 
>lies
>if they have no reason to know any better. She could be considered 
>guillible
>but again that's subjective, she has no way of knowing if you are telling
>the truth or not and it would be a mark against her is she was skeptical of
>everything you said.
>
>  All things considered you are being rude by lying to people over the
>internet. You might consider it harmless fun but lying is lying.
>
>  Allan
>


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp



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From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: d20 gaming system
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 10:02:45 -0400
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From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: d20 gaming system
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 10:02:45 -0400
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Hello All:


For all the people who feel they got this email in error, I took the email 
off of the Midkemia Press website and also did a CC to the Feist fans 
mailing list, so, everyone on the list is getting a copy, and yes, I am well 
aware that everyone on the list is not named Stephen.

Adieu

Jimmy


>From: kuros@pgtv.net (kuros)
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
>Subject: Re: d20 gaming system
>Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 19:22:26 -0700
>
>I think you addressed that to the wrong person. =) My name is Fletcher, not
>Stephen.
>
>Kuros
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
>To: <midkemia@home.com>
>Cc: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
>Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2001 10:48 AM
>Subject: d20 gaming system
>
>
> > Hello Stephen:
> >
> > I was just purusing your website and noticed that Midkemia press is
> > discussing the possible production of a new game system set in Midkemia.
> > Being a hugh fan of Ray's novels and an avid D&D gamer as well, I was
> > wondering if your plans were to develop a game that was combatible with
>the
> > very successful D20 game system that is being licenced by Wizards of the
> > Coast.
> >
> > I wasn't sure if I should send this email to you directly or to the
> > feistfans mailing list so I forward one to each.
> >
> > Adieu
> >
> > Jimmy
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at 
>http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
> >
> >
>


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 09:13:02 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: d20 gaming system
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On Monday, August 20, 2001, at 06:46 AM, James Silva wrote:

>
> I am relatively new to the mailing list, about 3 months now, so any 
> heated discussions that transpired are news to me. Anyhow, I just 
> thought that if a new midkemia based game was POSSIBLY going to be 
> released, that the d20 system would be an ideal system to use.
>
> Adieu
>
> Jimmy

The game system was developed over 20 years ago.  The reason it has 
never been published is that to this date it hasn't made financial sense 
to publish it.   But it's a complete system, not just a construction of 
modules that plug into another system like GURPS or D20 or AD&D.  Our 
combat system is different (and I think better than anything else I've 
seen) as are the rest of the rules, character development, time 
management rules, etc.

That may change, but Steve and I have to sit down and discuss it.

If we decide to publish, then the question of system becomes 
significant.  So much of what makes the game unique is that it doesn't 
relate to another system directly.  Rules for Lesser and Great Path 
magic, clerics, thieves, assassins, etc. are all uniquely Midkemian.

The problem with D&D/AD&D was that six sided dice tend to a bathtub 
curve, with 3.5 being your expected value for each die on average.  20 
sided is absolutely flat random, but there are times when you want a 
"curved" result.

Still, if we ever do consider publishing the game in its entirety we'll 
talk about changes.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 12:53:03 -0500
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: d20 gaming system
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Raymond Feist wrote:
> 
> Our combat system is different (and I think better than anything else I've
> seen) as are the rest of the rules, character development, time
> management rules, etc.

Not that I want to see every game company dump off their own systems and
embrance d20 (I really don't want to see that happen, but it is), but
Sovereign Stone had it's own game system, and people seemed to love the
mechanics, yet the game failed to stand on it's own, sadly, and they
moved to d20. In the process, they had to rework their magic system to
make it fit with d20... well, more like change d20's magic to fit Sov
Stone.

I really wish they didn't have to make that change, but I would fear
that if you ever did release your own game system then it would fail
just because of the sheer amount of gaming material out there right now
(alot of it being d20) and then, to even survive, you'd be stuck going
to d20 as well.

Craig J. Ries



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From: "Earl Borah" <earl@ncn.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 11:17:26 -0700
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> > Our combat system is different (and I think better than anything
> > else I've seen) as are the rest of the rules, character development,
> > time management rules, etc.

SNIP

>  I would fear
> that if you ever did release your own game system then it would fail
> just because of the sheer amount of gaming material out there right
> now (alot of it being d20) and then, to even survive, you'd be stuck
> going to d20 as well.

Since it's "survived" for many years without being converted to d20, 
I don't think it's a major concern for Ray or Steve. If they ever 
decide to release it, then it's up to them to decide the terms. Until 
such a decision is made, arguments for or against a particular game 
system (or any other related details) are premature.

Furthermore, since you can't possibly know what the differences are 
between Midkemia's rules and the d20 rules, predicting the success or 
failure of one version or another is a rather egotistical form of 
fortune telling.

If you're incredibly interested in hypothetical discussions with 
little grounding in facts, then hypothesize away. Otherwise, admit 
ignorance (without a negative connotation -- we're all ignorant 
regarding the specifics on this issue, except for Ray and Steve and 
the rest of the group that played with them years ago) and leave it 
be. It's not your decision anyway, any more than you can decide what 
Ray's next book will be about.

-----
  "I dislike being wrong, and having to admit it publicly later. It's
  embarrassing, humiliating, and unnecessary. It would have been just
  as easy, and much more pleasant, to have been right in the first place."
    - Jack Richard, former Editor of Boardwatch Magazine



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 13:53:47 -0500
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: d20 gaming system
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Earl Borah wrote:
> 
> Furthermore, since you can't possibly know what the differences are
> between Midkemia's rules and the d20 rules, predicting the success or
> failure of one version or another is a rather egotistical form of
> fortune telling.

And what's wrong with predictions? Is there something wrong with showing
that I actually *care* whether or not a Riftwar game system would fail
or not? Or that I don't want to see every game product out there
carrying the label of d20?
 
> If you're incredibly interested in hypothetical discussions with
> little grounding in facts, then hypothesize away. Otherwise, admit
> ignorance (without a negative connotation -- we're all ignorant
> regarding the specifics on this issue, except for Ray and Steve and
> the rest of the group that played with them years ago) and leave it
> be. It's not your decision anyway, any more than you can decide what
> Ray's next book will be about.

Well, god forbid that I offer up an opinion, eh? Atleast, that's what I
thought that that is what this list is, in part, dedicated to the
sharing of opinions.
I'd rather it that if you have that large a problem with my opinion, you
don't reply in turn. I'm not forcing you to, I'm just offering up one
particular view of the situation. Cripes.

Craig J. Ries



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Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 15:25:53 EDT
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What is a D20 System. Why would you use that instead of the X-Box or
the Game Cube or even Playstation 2



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Hey I know the question I am going to ask has been asked before but I
just got to  it in my book so here we go: What made the Mad God Mad?



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> Hey I know the question I am going to ask has been asked before but I
> just got to  it in my book so here we go: What made the Mad God Mad?

Check rip's/Donal's archives - this came up on the list about a week ago.

> What is a D20 System. Why would you use that instead of the X-Box or
> the Game Cube or even Playstation 2

D20 is short hand for saying a dice with 20 sides (typically in the form of an
icosahedron).  A D20 rpg system is one that solely/primarily use such dice, and
all the look up tables you use are suitably scaled.

Mike,
Gibfish of the West.
                                          Check out my forums at:
"If a problem appears simple, then it     http://www.tonrae.co.uk/forums/
probably hasn't been thought through."


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com



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Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 17:28:46 -0500
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
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Valheru89@aol.com wrote:
> 
> What is a D20 System. Why would you use that instead of the X-Box or
> the Game Cube or even laystation 2

X-Box (*shudders*), Game Cube & the PS2 are all gaming consoles.

d20 is the latest version of Dungeons & Dragons, pretty much the first
when it comes to role playing games. D&D is produced by Wizards of the
Coast (same guys who gave the world Magic: The Gathering, and later,
sadly, Pokemon in the USA), and before them, it was created 25 years ago
by TSR.

Craig J. Ries, who doesn't make a distinction between 3E and d20 :)



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Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 09:17:04 +1000
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Scott Nimmo <snimmo@connect.com.au>
Subject: Re: d20 gaming system
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At 03:53 AM 21/08/2001 , you wrote:
>Not that I want to see every game company dump off their own systems and
>embrance d20 (I really don't want to see that happen, but it is), but
>Sovereign Stone had it's own game system, and people seemed to love the
>mechanics, yet the game failed to stand on it's own, sadly, and they
>moved to d20. In the process, they had to rework their magic system to
>make it fit with d20... well, more like change d20's magic to fit Sov
>Stone.

Sovereign Stone is a good comparison to work with, it has names like Elmore,
Weis and Hickman so it has recognition.
In a recent email on a d20 list Margaret Weis mentioned that preorders for
d20 Sovereign Stone is already passed TOTAL sales on the version with a
unique rules set.

It makes me wonder whether Decipher is shooting themselves in the foot with
making the Lord of the Ring RPG with their own system rather than d20.

regards,
Scott



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Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 18:33:54 -0500
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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Scott Nimmo wrote:
> 
> It makes me wonder whether Decipher is shooting themselves in the foot with
> making the Lord of the Ring RPG with their own system rather than d20.

Who can say, really. Sales numbers will be the determining factor in the
end.

As I said, I prefer variety... recently I got involved with a campaign
playing GammaWorld, of all things! :)
I'm one of the ones that don't want d20 to be the end-all of gaming.

Craig J. Ries



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From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re: d20 gaming system
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 20:13:05 -0400
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From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re: d20 gaming system
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 20:13:05 -0400
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Hey Earl, chill out! It's obvious that Craig is concerned with the 
commercial success of any possible Midkemia based role playing game, hence 
the opinion that basing it on the d20 system would greatly increase its 
chances of being a success. Now, this may be at the expense of the game's 
quality, but if the game dosen't sell, it isn't worth (financilly speaking 
of course) the investment to produce it. The d20 system has become so 
popular and so profitable, that one would be a fool to not consider the 
positives and negatives of producing a new role playing game product using 
that system compared to a system unique to the new RPG.

Adieu

Jimmy


>From: "Earl Borah" <earl@ncn.com>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
>Subject: Re: d20 gaming system
>Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 11:17:26 -0700
>
> > > Our combat system is different (and I think better than anything
> > > else I've seen) as are the rest of the rules, character development,
> > > time management rules, etc.
>
>SNIP
>
> >  I would fear
> > that if you ever did release your own game system then it would fail
> > just because of the sheer amount of gaming material out there right
> > now (alot of it being d20) and then, to even survive, you'd be stuck
> > going to d20 as well.
>
>Since it's "survived" for many years without being converted to d20,
>I don't think it's a major concern for Ray or Steve. If they ever
>decide to release it, then it's up to them to decide the terms. Until
>such a decision is made, arguments for or against a particular game
>system (or any other related details) are premature.
>
>Furthermore, since you can't possibly know what the differences are
>between Midkemia's rules and the d20 rules, predicting the success or
>failure of one version or another is a rather egotistical form of
>fortune telling.
>
>If you're incredibly interested in hypothetical discussions with
>little grounding in facts, then hypothesize away. Otherwise, admit
>ignorance (without a negative connotation -- we're all ignorant
>regarding the specifics on this issue, except for Ray and Steve and
>the rest of the group that played with them years ago) and leave it
>be. It's not your decision anyway, any more than you can decide what
>Ray's next book will be about.
>
>-----
>   "I dislike being wrong, and having to admit it publicly later. It's
>   embarrassing, humiliating, and unnecessary. It would have been just
>   as easy, and much more pleasant, to have been right in the first place."
>     - Jack Richard, former Editor of Boardwatch Magazine
>


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp



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From: "Jason Mulligan" <sulimo@bigpond.net.au>
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On 20/08/2001 at 15:25 PM Valheru89@aol.com wrote:

>What is a D20 System. Why would you use that instead of the X-Box or the Game Cube or even Playstation 2

We're not talking about electronic games here, rather 'real'
roleplaying games. With, dice, paper, etc.



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From: "Jason Mulligan" <sulimo@bigpond.net.au>
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From: "Jason Mulligan" <sulimo@bigpond.net.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On 20/08/2001 at 18:33 PM Craig J. Ries wrote:

>Scott Nimmo wrote:
>> 
>> It makes me wonder whether Decipher is shooting themselves in the foot
>with
>> making the Lord of the Ring RPG with their own system rather than d20.
>
>Who can say, really. Sales numbers will be the determining factor in the
>end.

I glad it didnt happen. Middle Earth as a d20 setting is just too scary to 
contemplate.

>As I said, I prefer variety... recently I got involved with a campaign
>playing GammaWorld, of all things! :)
>I'm one of the ones that don't want d20 to be the end-all of gaming.

Same here. I dont want to see all the cool games just becoming another 
d20 setting. But then, this was my fear right from the start when I heard 
about the d20 project. That d20 will become the Microsoft of rpgs. All the 
other cool games putting out d20 supplements, and finding many more 
sales in the d20 version, they dump the original (and in most cases better 
game). Although at least with dead rpgs its easier to continue using them 
than dead computer OS's.




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On 20/08/2001 at 9:13 AM Raymond Feist wrote:

>The game system was developed over 20 years ago.  The reason it has 
>never been published is that to this date it hasn't made financial sense 
>to publish it.   But it's a complete system, not just a construction of 

And I think its going to get even harder, the way everyone seems to be 
jumping to d20 <sigh>. Although I guess there are options to publish 
electronically these days.

>modules that plug into another system like GURPS or D20 or AD&D.  Our 
>combat system is different (and I think better than anything else I've 
>seen) as are the rest of the rules, character development, time 
>management rules, etc.

Ray, I'm curious. How is the combat system different? can you speak 
about it at least conceptually?

Time management? what do you mean? 

>That may change, but Steve and I have to sit down and discuss it.
>
>If we decide to publish, then the question of system becomes 
>significant.  So much of what makes the game unique is that it doesn't 
>relate to another system directly.  Rules for Lesser and Great Path 
>magic, clerics, thieves, assassins, etc. are all uniquely Midkemian.

Magic does seem the most troublesome when looking at using other 
systems. I myself have been recently looking at using ICE's now defunct 
(although there may be a rebirth soon) game Rolemaster. And magic 
seems to be the real headache.



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References: <200108201612.f7KGCqR29131@smtp1.san.rr.com> <4.2.0.58.20010821091250.00aebf10@koro.off.connect.com.au> <3B819E62.CA5C462A@yifan.net> <200108211040490594.0037C296@mail-hub>
Subject: Re: d20 gaming system
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From: "C.T. Cusimano" <supert@redshift.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: d20 gaming system
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 17:51:57 -0700
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all the difference die are cool 8?)

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jason Mulligan" <sulimo@bigpond.net.au>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Monday, August 20, 2001 5:40 PM
Subject: Re: d20 gaming system


> On 20/08/2001 at 18:33 PM Craig J. Ries wrote:
>
> >Scott Nimmo wrote:
> >>
> >> It makes me wonder whether Decipher is shooting themselves in the foot
> >with
> >> making the Lord of the Ring RPG with their own system rather than d20.
> >
> >Who can say, really. Sales numbers will be the determining factor in the
> >end.
>
> I glad it didnt happen. Middle Earth as a d20 setting is just too scary to
> contemplate.
>
> >As I said, I prefer variety... recently I got involved with a campaign
> >playing GammaWorld, of all things! :)
> >I'm one of the ones that don't want d20 to be the end-all of gaming.
>
> Same here. I dont want to see all the cool games just becoming another
> d20 setting. But then, this was my fear right from the start when I heard
> about the d20 project. That d20 will become the Microsoft of rpgs. All the
> other cool games putting out d20 supplements, and finding many more
> sales in the d20 version, they dump the original (and in most cases better
> game). Although at least with dead rpgs its easier to continue using them
> than dead computer OS's.
>
>



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Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 19:56:38 -0500
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: d20 gaming system
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Jason Mulligan wrote:
> 
> Same here. I dont want to see all the cool games just becoming another
> d20 setting. But then, this was my fear right from the start when I heard
> about the d20 project. That d20 will become the Microsoft of rpgs. All the
> other cool games putting out d20 supplements, and finding many more
> sales in the d20 version, they dump the original (and in most cases better
> game). Although at least with dead rpgs its easier to continue using them
> than dead computer OS's.

*chuckle* Well, I had the chance to talk to my local gaming/comic shop
owner when he got back from GenCon, and he said even he was a bit amazed
at the amount of d20 gaming material that was out there and that he
never even had the opportunity to look at d20 Sov Stone (I asked him to
look at it since d20 is doing well and he gave up on the original Sov
Stone products).

When you see stuff like White Wolf doing Ravenloft (no surprise) in d20,
and then Star Wars going to d20, and who knows what else has already,
only time will tell if any other gaming system will last, or any world
will not go to d20.

Craig J. Ries



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*** EOOH ***
From: Allan Mills <milla@css.com.au>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" (FEISTFANS-L) <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: HE from amazon.co.uk
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: James Silva [mailto:kiehtan@hotmail.com]
> Sent: Monday, August 20, 2001 11:59 PM
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Subject: RE: HE from amazon.co.uk
> 
> 
> Mr. James Barker, As an American, with a good deal of non 
> American friends 
> and acquaintences, I have only one comment for you:
> 
> There are so many HUMANS that can be called, for lack of a better 
> word...stupid. To limit this trait to one nation, is, for 
> lack of a better 
> word...stupid. :)
> 
> Adieu
> 
> Jimm
> 

 My personal belief is that everybody on the planet has both heights of
intelligence and depths of stupidity. The key to life is making use of the
former and avoiding the latter.

 Allan



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Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 18:23:46 -0700
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 18:23:46 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: d20 gaming system
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On Monday, August 20, 2001, at 05:50 PM, Jason Mulligan wrote:

> On 20/08/2001 at 9:13 AM Raymond Feist wrote:
>
>> The game system was developed over 20 years ago.  The reason it has
>> never been published is that to this date it hasn't made financial 
>> sense
>> to publish it.   But it's a complete system, not just a construction of
>
> And I think its going to get even harder, the way everyone seems to be
> jumping to d20 <sigh>. Although I guess there are options to publish
> electronically these days.
>
>> modules that plug into another system like GURPS or D20 or AD&D.  Our
>> combat system is different (and I think better than anything else I've
>> seen) as are the rest of the rules, character development, time
>> management rules, etc.
>
> Ray, I'm curious. How is the combat system different? can you speak
> about it at least conceptually?

In general, most of the combat around at the time our game was in 
development were VERY mechanical in terms of strike vs. damage 
probability.

What we judged was that a combat round was an abstracted period of time 
we arbitrarily put at 1 minute (give or take) in which two characters 
would square off and feint, feign, swing, miss or hit several times.  
D&D and other systems' logic was based on the notion that a higher level 
character would generate more damage than a lower one. Our's was that a 
higher level character got more opportunity to inflict damage than a 
lower level one.  Example, in that combat round, a fifth level character 
would get five times the opportunity to swing and connect than a first 
level character.  But once contact was made, then everything became 
"flat," i.e. weapons vs. armor class, plusses for personal modifiers, 
pluses for weapons vs. armor class, etc.  So you could have a situation 
in which a fifth level character gets in three licks vs. one for the 
first level guy.  The first level guy blocks one on his shield without 
damage, then takes the second one for a bit of damage, then takes the 
third one on his shield, but the shield is damaged and becomes useless.  
Meanwhile, the first level guy gets in one hideously lucky shot that 
hits a neck artery in the other guy, and all he has to do from that 
point on is block and survive until the fifth level character bleeds to 
death.

Sounds very cumbersome, but the way the algorthyms were written and the 
charts constructed, it was very easy to look up key numbers, have them 
at hand, and quickly work through several multiple player combats in a 
mele.    Very good system with fumble rules and critical hit rules.  It 
covered long range weapons (bows, crossbows, etc.) and short weapons, 
and everything in between.

>
> Time management? what do you mean?

Time is objective in Midkemia so everyone's characters are doing 
something, even if they're not being played.  So a set of rules were 
constructed so you could "catch up" the characters.  So if you're 
fighter was in LaMut waiting for my cleric to come up from Krondor, and 
I played a three week wilderness campaign getting there, you could 
consult tables and role dice to find out what you'd been doing for those 
three weeks.  Huge numbers of variables, and you began by deciding if 
you were "laying low" or "out there."  You could decide to get a job.  
You could befriend someone important, or offend someone dangerous.  You 
could go on a mission and die or get rich.   I don't know about recent 
games, but in previous games time is all but ignored by other systems.

>
>> That may change, but Steve and I have to sit down and discuss it.
>>
>> If we decide to publish, then the question of system becomes
>> significant.  So much of what makes the game unique is that it doesn't
>> relate to another system directly.  Rules for Lesser and Great Path
>> magic, clerics, thieves, assassins, etc. are all uniquely Midkemian.
>
> Magic does seem the most troublesome when looking at using other
> systems. I myself have been recently looking at using ICE's now defunct
> (although there may be a rebirth soon) game Rolemaster. And magic
> seems to be the real headache.
>
>


Not for us, but then again, we built our system from the ground up.  The 
Lesser Path rules, for example, didn't get finished until years after 
the greater path rules were done.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.

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Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 11:32:46 +1000
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Scott Nimmo <snimmo@connect.com.au>
Subject: Re: d20 gaming system
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At 04:17 AM 21/08/2001 , Earl wrote:
>Since it's "survived" for many years without being converted to d20, 
>I don't think it's a major concern for Ray or Steve. If they ever 
>decide to release it, then it's up to them to decide the terms. Until 
>such a decision is made, arguments for or against a particular game 
>system (or any other related details) are premature.

It has not survived "commercially" though. Having an idea of the costs
of producing a good quality hardcover rulebook to a quantity required to
make it successful, I think it would be a major concern to Ray and Steve.

>Furthermore, since you can't possibly know what the differences are 
>between Midkemia's rules and the d20 rules, predicting the success or 
>failure of one version or another is a rather egotistical form of 
>fortune telling.

Immaterial, most purchases for roleplaying by gamers tends towards 
an impulse buy. Impulse buys are more likely if the ruleset is familiar. 
Real world examples of this can be found in my previous email for 
Sovereign Stone /d20.

As to games that are using d20, here are a few:
Deadlands (in house), Call of Cthulhu (cheating, getting WotC to do the 
rulebook while parent company does supplements), Starwars (WotC),
Fading Suns d20 (in house), Wheel of Time (WotC), Sovereign Stone 
(in house) and Ravenloft (Arthaus/White Wolf).
White Wolf has Sword and Sorcery brand under their Arthaus company.
Earthdawn is getting revamped and d20 is not being forgotten when the 
line restarts and matures.

The companies that are non-WotC are experienced publishers of roleplaying
material (White Wolf being one of the largest in the industry), obviously
there is some benefit other than "d20 is better than my own rules-set".
It actually appears that all such publishers think their own rules-sets are 
superior but they still are going to try out d20. 

 From what I can see, ATM there is money in d20. This could make a 
Tome of Midkemia more commercially viable, thus more likely that we 
would get a chance to more thoroughly enjoy the creations of people like
Steve and Ray.
That sounds pretty good to me.

regards,
Scott



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Subject: Re: d20 gaming system
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*** EOOH ***
From: Brad_A_Krahe@allegiance.com.au
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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 11:58:35 +1000
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Ray,

Sounds like MERP except for the flat damage part. Dam those critical hit
tables! I lost a 7th lvl Eleven Ranger with a spear through the eye :(

Personnal Experince:

At the end of the day it comes down to the group you play with, when I
played AD&D (1st Ed, before we discovered MERP) we made our own hit
locations etc, made people come up with story lines for their characters
when they weren't played for periods with the rest of us.

The group I played with started using MERP rules (Rolemaster is just to
cumbersome) in a forgotten realms/AD&D setting which slowly evolved over
time. But as with everything started in youth, took a back seat when
girlfriends/wives/childern came along though we do still manage to play
bi-monthly but are spread across several games AD&D 3rd, Shadowrun 3rd,
MERP, Call of Cthulhu, Rifts, Earthdawn.




Regards,

Brad Krahe
SAP Business & Support Consultant
Allegiance Systems




>Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com> on 21/08/2001 11:23:46
>
>Please respond to FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>
>To:   FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
>cc:    (bcc: Brad A Krahe/HCS)
>Subject:  Re: d20 gaming system
>
>
>
>
>
>On Monday, August 20, 2001, at 05:50 PM, Jason Mulligan wrote:
>
>> On 20/08/2001 at 9:13 AM Raymond Feist wrote:
>>
>>> The game system was developed over 20 years ago.  The reason it has
>>> never been published is that to this date it hasn't made financial
>>> sense
>>> to publish it.   But it's a complete system, not just a construction of
>>
>> And I think its going to get even harder, the way everyone seems to be
>> jumping to d20 <sigh>. Although I guess there are options to publish
>> electronically these days.
>>
>>> modules that plug into another system like GURPS or D20 or AD&D.  Our
>>> combat system is different (and I think better than anything else I've
>>> seen) as are the rest of the rules, character development, time
>>> management rules, etc.
>>
>> Ray, I'm curious. How is the combat system different? can you speak
>> about it at least conceptually?
>
>In general, most of the combat around at the time our game was in
>development were VERY mechanical in terms of strike vs. damage
>probability.
>
>What we judged was that a combat round was an abstracted period of time
>we arbitrarily put at 1 minute (give or take) in which two characters
>would square off and feint, feign, swing, miss or hit several times.
>D&D and other systems' logic was based on the notion that a higher level
>character would generate more damage than a lower one. Our's was that a
>higher level character got more opportunity to inflict damage than a
>lower level one.  Example, in that combat round, a fifth level character
>would get five times the opportunity to swing and connect than a first
>level character.  But once contact was made, then everything became
>"flat," i.e. weapons vs. armor class, plusses for personal modifiers,
>pluses for weapons vs. armor class, etc.  So you could have a situation
>in which a fifth level character gets in three licks vs. one for the
>first level guy.  The first level guy blocks one on his shield without
>damage, then takes the second one for a bit of damage, then takes the
>third one on his shield, but the shield is damaged and becomes useless.
>Meanwhile, the first level guy gets in one hideously lucky shot that
>hits a neck artery in the other guy, and all he has to do from that
>point on is block and survive until the fifth level character bleeds to
>death.
>
>Sounds very cumbersome, but the way the algorthyms were written and the
>charts constructed, it was very easy to look up key numbers, have them
>at hand, and quickly work through several multiple player combats in a
>mele.    Very good system with fumble rules and critical hit rules.  It
>covered long range weapons (bows, crossbows, etc.) and short weapons,
>and everything in between.
>
>>
>> Time management? what do you mean?
>
>Time is objective in Midkemia so everyone's characters are doing
>something, even if they're not being played.  So a set of rules were
>constructed so you could "catch up" the characters.  So if you're
>fighter was in LaMut waiting for my cleric to come up from Krondor, and
>I played a three week wilderness campaign getting there, you could
>consult tables and role dice to find out what you'd been doing for those
>three weeks.  Huge numbers of variables, and you began by deciding if
>you were "laying low" or "out there."  You could decide to get a job.
>You could befriend someone important, or offend someone dangerous.  You
>could go on a mission and die or get rich.   I don't know about recent
>games, but in previous games time is all but ignored by other systems.
>
>>
>>> That may change, but Steve and I have to sit down and discuss it.
>>>
>>> If we decide to publish, then the question of system becomes
>>> significant.  So much of what makes the game unique is that it doesn't
>>> relate to another system directly.  Rules for Lesser and Great Path
>>> magic, clerics, thieves, assassins, etc. are all uniquely Midkemian.
>>
>> Magic does seem the most troublesome when looking at using other
>> systems. I myself have been recently looking at using ICE's now defunct
>> (although there may be a rebirth soon) game Rolemaster. And magic
>> seems to be the real headache.
>>
>>
>
>
>Not for us, but then again, we built our system from the ground up.  The
>Lesser Path rules, for example, didn't get finished until years after
>the greater path rules were done.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
>stupidity.

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From: "Jason Mulligan" <sulimo@bigpond.net.au>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 13:02:25 +1000
From: "Jason Mulligan" <sulimo@bigpond.net.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On 21/08/2001 at 9:17 AM Scott Nimmo wrote:
>It makes me wonder whether Decipher is shooting themselves in the foot with
>making the Lord of the Ring RPG with their own system rather than d20.

Well, the Decipher game is sounding promising.

Check out http://mevault.ign.com/features/rpg/rpg.shtml for a
interesting interview with one of the Decipher crew.




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From: Roland Eckhardt <havago182@yahoo.com.au>
Subject: Re: What happened to Hilda?
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 13:13:39 +1000 (EST)
From: Roland Eckhardt <havago182@yahoo.com.au>
Subject: Re: What happened to Hilda?
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Whats a spoiler? I am currently ignorant of this and
would like to investigate in great depth further. I
read these messages and they tell me about the plot of
stories I have not as yet read, which is no fun :-( Is
that what a spoiler is? oooh let me have a go at doing
one!!!

Spoiler




































































This e-mail is not intended on being serious!

There did I spoil something on you???
te he he he he he he he he he he

The identity of the writer of this e-mail

Spoiler





















































































The almighty spoiler man!!!


 --- Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com> wrote: > 
> On Thursday, August 9, 2001, at 06:18 PM, Aaron
> Howey wrote:
> 
> > There may be minor spoliers about Tear of the Gods
> if you have not read 
> > it
> > yet, so I'll put some space in
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I was just re-reading TotG and wondered what
> happened to that Goddess, 
> > or
> > dead Goddess, called Hilda? Will she appear again,
> like in the next two
> > Krondor the___ books, or a later series?
> >
> > Also perhaps Nakor is agent of hers
> >
> >
> 
> You'll have to wait to find out.
> 
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
> 
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be
> explained away by 
> stupidity.
>  

====Change is the essence of being. Ultimately change comes from within.

_____________________________________________________________________________
http://shopping.yahoo.com.au - Father's Day Shopping
- Find the perfect gift for your Dad for Father's Day



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Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 13:31:39 +1000
Subject: Re: What happened to Hilda?
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*** EOOH ***
From: Brad_A_Krahe@allegiance.com.au
X-Lotus-FromDomain: HCS
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 13:31:39 +1000
Subject: Re: What happened to Hilda?
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

You got it in one. If you haven't read the story and see *spoiler* in the
message and don't want to know, don't read.

Likewise if your posting a comment or question regarding a new book which
everyone hasn't read yet, please include *spoiler* followed by alot of
white space (page of blank lines) as to warn people who may not want to
hear or have the book reunioned for them :)

Regards,

Brad Krahe
SAP Business & Support Consultant
Allegiance Systems



>
>Roland Eckhardt <havago182@yahoo.com.au> on 21/08/2001 13:13:39
>
>Please respond to FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>
>To:   FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
>cc:    (bcc: Brad A Krahe/HCS)
>Subject:  Re: What happened to Hilda?
>
>
>
>
>Whats a spoiler? I am currently ignorant of this and
>would like to investigate in great depth further. I
>read these messages and they tell me about the plot of
>stories I have not as yet read, which is no fun :-( Is
>that what a spoiler is? oooh let me have a go at doing
>one!!!
>
>Spoiler
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>This e-mail is not intended on being serious!
>
>There did I spoil something on you???
>te he he he he he he he he he he
>
>The identity of the writer of this e-mail
>
>Spoiler
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>The almighty spoiler man!!!
>
>
> --- Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com> wrote: >
>> On Thursday, August 9, 2001, at 06:18 PM, Aaron
>> Howey wrote:
>>
>> > There may be minor spoliers about Tear of the Gods
>> if you have not read
>> > it
>> > yet, so I'll put some space in
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > I was just re-reading TotG and wondered what
>> happened to that Goddess,
>> > or
>> > dead Goddess, called Hilda? Will she appear again,
>> like in the next two
>> > Krondor the___ books, or a later series?
>> >
>> > Also perhaps Nakor is agent of hers
>> >
>> >
>>
>> You'll have to wait to find out.
>>
>> Best, R.E.F.
>> ----
>>
>> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be
>> explained away by
>> stupidity.
>>
>
>=====
>Change is the essence of being. Ultimately change comes from within.
>
>___________________________________________________________________________
>__
>http://shopping.yahoo.com.au - Father's Day Shopping
>- Find the perfect gift for your Dad for Father's Day
>







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From: Allan Mills <milla@css.com.au>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" (FEISTFANS-L) <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: What happened to Hilda?
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 13:57:29 +1000
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*** EOOH ***
From: Allan Mills <milla@css.com.au>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" (FEISTFANS-L) <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: What happened to Hilda?
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 13:57:29 +1000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

 Not just new books but any books. Magician might be an exception but
generally don't assume that everyone on this list has read all the books Ray
has written. It *spoils* the story if you know that a character will die or
a battle will be won/lost etc.

 Allan

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Brad_A_Krahe@allegiance.com.au
> [mailto:Brad_A_Krahe@allegiance.com.au]
> Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2001 1:32 PM
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Subject: Re: What happened to Hilda?
> 
> 
> You got it in one. If you haven't read the story and see 
> *spoiler* in the
> message and don't want to know, don't read.
> 
> Likewise if your posting a comment or question regarding a 
> new book which
> everyone hasn't read yet, please include *spoiler* followed by alot of
> white space (page of blank lines) as to warn people who may 
> not want to
> hear or have the book reunioned for them :)
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Brad Krahe
> SAP Business & Support Consultant
> Allegiance Systems
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roland Eckhardt <havago182@yahoo.com.au> on 21/08/2001 13:13:39
> 
> Please respond to FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> 
> To:   FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
> cc:    (bcc: Brad A Krahe/HCS)
> Subject:  Re: What happened to Hilda?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Whats a spoiler? I am currently ignorant of this and
> would like to investigate in great depth further. I
> read these messages and they tell me about the plot of
> stories I have not as yet read, which is no fun :-( Is
> that what a spoiler is? oooh let me have a go at doing
> one!!!
> 
> Spoiler
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> This e-mail is not intended on being serious!
> 
> There did I spoil something on you???
> te he he he he he he he he he he
> 
> The identity of the writer of this e-mail
> 
> Spoiler
> 
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> The almighty spoiler man!!!
> 
> 
>  --- Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com> wrote: >
> > On Thursday, August 9, 2001, at 06:18 PM, Aaron
> > Howey wrote:
> >
> > > There may be minor spoliers about Tear of the Gods
> > if you have not read
> > > it
> > > yet, so I'll put some space in
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I was just re-reading TotG and wondered what
> > happened to that Goddess,
> > > or
> > > dead Goddess, called Hilda? Will she appear again,
> > like in the next two
> > > Krondor the___ books, or a later series?
> > >
> > > Also perhaps Nakor is agent of hers
> > >
> > >
> >
> > You'll have to wait to find out.
> >
> > Best, R.E.F.
> > ----
> >
> > Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be
> > explained away by
> > stupidity.
> >
> 
> =====
> Change is the essence of being. Ultimately change comes from within.
> 
> ______________________________________________________________
> _____________
> __
> http://shopping.yahoo.com.au - Father's Day Shopping
> - Find the perfect gift for your Dad for Father's Day
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 



1,,
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Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 14:18:08 +1000 (GMT+1000)
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From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: What happened to Hilda?
In-Reply-To: <CA256AAF.001311DD.00@mailgate.allegiance.com.au>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 14:18:08 +1000 (GMT+1000)
From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: What happened to Hilda?
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


The FAQ contains the guideline for spoiler space (www.psihawk.com/feist).

IIRC it is 25 line + of non-space, non-dot space

Also, include [spoiler] in the subject line.

i.e

s
p
o
i
l
e
r

s
p
a
c
e

you get the picture:P

> You got it in one. If you haven't read the story and see *spoiler* in the
> message and don't want to know, don't read.
>
> Likewise if your posting a comment or question regarding a new book which
> everyone hasn't read yet, please include *spoiler* followed by alot of
> white space (page of blank lines) as to warn people who may not want to
> hear or have the book reunioned for them :)
>
> Regards,
>
> Brad Krahe
> SAP Business & Support Consultant
> Allegiance Systems
>
>
>
>
> Roland Eckhardt <havago182@yahoo.com.au> on 21/08/2001 13:13:39
>
> Please respond to FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>
> To:   FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
> cc:    (bcc: Brad A Krahe/HCS)
> Subject:  Re: What happened to Hilda?
>
>
>
>
> Whats a spoiler? I am currently ignorant of this and
> would like to investigate in great depth further. I
> read these messages and they tell me about the plot of
> stories I have not as yet read, which is no fun :-( Is
> that what a spoiler is? oooh let me have a go at doing
> one!!!
>
> Spoiler
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> This e-mail is not intended on being serious!
>
> There did I spoil something on you???
> te he he he he he he he he he he
>
> The identity of the writer of this e-mail
>
> Spoiler
>
>
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> The almighty spoiler man!!!
>
>
>  --- Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com> wrote: >
> > On Thursday, August 9, 2001, at 06:18 PM, Aaron
> > Howey wrote:
> >
> > > There may be minor spoliers about Tear of the Gods
> > if you have not read
> > > it
> > > yet, so I'll put some space in
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I was just re-reading TotG and wondered what
> > happened to that Goddess,
> > > or
> > > dead Goddess, called Hilda? Will she appear again,
> > like in the next two
> > > Krondor the___ books, or a later series?
> > >
> > > Also perhaps Nakor is agent of hers
> > >
> > >
> >
> > You'll have to wait to find out.
> >
> > Best, R.E.F.
> > ----
> >
> > Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be
> > explained away by
> > stupidity.
> >
>
> =====
> Change is the essence of being. Ultimately change comes from within.
>
> ___________________________________________________________________________
> __
> http://shopping.yahoo.com.au - Father's Day Shopping
> - Find the perfect gift for your Dad for Father's Day
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Thanks
Darragh
-=-=
www.iamtheporkfireman.com
[Email]: s356179@student.uq.edu.au [ICQ]: 114283262



1,,
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Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 14:19:26 +1000 (GMT+1000)
X-PH: V4.1@cornell.edu (Cornell Modified) 
From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Q. for Ray - Magician.
In-Reply-To: <CA256AAF.001311DD.00@mailgate.allegiance.com.au>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 14:19:26 +1000 (GMT+1000)
From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Q. for Ray - Magician.
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Hi Ray.

When you first started on Magician, did you find it hard to get motivated
to actually sit down and get into the writing?

Was it very stressing?

Thanks
Darragh
-=-=
www.iamtheporkfireman.com
[Email]: s356179@student.uq.edu.au [ICQ]: 114283262



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 21:23:44 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Q. for Ray - Magician.
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Monday, August 20, 2001, at 09:19 PM, Darragh Murray wrote:

> Hi Ray.
>
> When you first started on Magician, did you find it hard to get 
> motivated
> to actually sit down and get into the writing?

No.

>
> Was it very stressing?

Nope.

It took some time to get into the swim of things with the narrative, 
mostly a structural/mechanical issue, but as far as finding the energy 
to write or what to write about, no trouble whatsoever.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.

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Message-ID: <137.57a2a5.28b34b03@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 01:26:27 EDT
Subject: Re: HE Thoughts, some angrier than others
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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*** EOOH ***
From: KSimon67@aol.com
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 01:26:27 EDT
Subject: Re: HE Thoughts, some angrier than others
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu



> On 15 Aug 2001, at 13:12, STEPHEN M RUSSELL wrote:
> 
> <snip>
> > Even more troubling, however, was the huge number of spelling and
> > punctuation errors (relatively speaking).  Ray's recent books have shown a
> > lack of polish in this area, and HE is the worst of the bunch.  It starts
> > almost immediately with the damn/damp hair typo, and there are many other
> > similar mistakes.  Also, there were missing punctuation marks at times
> > (mainly commas).  I get pretty insulted when, upon shelling out $30 for a
> > hardcover (since I bought it from amazon.uk), I find I have bought
> > something so full of errors - especially errors that result from nothing
> > more than laziness.  I am not sure who to blame for the mess.  



Well, I just finished HE and I enjoyed it enormously. 
I have to say, that the farther I got along in the book, the more irritated I 
became with Mr. Russells opinions.
I don't have the original post, but I can tell you that it bothers me that a 
person can sit there and rip apart someone's work then wrap it up with  
"don't get me wrong, I think everyone should buy the book" fluff.
That's called ass-kissing.
If you already know that REF isn't the proofreader, he's not the editor, he's 
not the publisher, and neither is anyone else on this list, then why vomit 
all over us?
I know, it's your opinion.

My opinion?
I loved this story, I loved the characters, I did not trip over any missing 
commas and I'm glad bought the book.

Mr. Russells review was mostly crap.
That's MY opinion.

Karl
Editor-in-chief 
of nothing.

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*** EOOH ***
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From: "Sonia Tabe" <sonia@nt-tech.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Typo
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 15:22:32 +0930
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I've finally finished reading my book of Honoured Enemy. It was a great
book.
Since other people have done so, I'm going to take the liberty to point out
a typing error:

10 lines down on page 300, it says: "A he heard Gregory's words..." I'm sure
it's supposed to be "As he heard...."


Sonia
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
Est Sularis Oth Mithas



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From: "Donal K. Fellows" <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk>
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In-reply-to: <200108201612.f7KGCqR29131@smtp1.san.rr.com> (message from
	Raymond Feist on Mon, 20 Aug 2001 09:13:02 -0700)
Subject: Re: d20 gaming system
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Donal K. Fellows" <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: d20 gaming system
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 09:48:17 +0100
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Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
> The problem with D&D/AD&D was that six sided dice tend to a bathtub 
> curve, with 3.5 being your expected value for each die on average.  20 
> sided is absolutely flat random, but there are times when you want a 
> "curved" result.

You can get distributions that more closely approximate a bell-curve
by having several dice; the approximation is probably good enough for
gaming purposes with four...

(OK, so I think the mathematics of probability distributions is much
more interesting than D&D-type gaming, which is far too random for my
taste.  I prefer strategy games where each side, of preferably more
than two, has different information to the other.  <g>)

Donal.
-- 
Donal K. Fellows, Department of Computer Science, University of Manchester, UK.
(work) fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk     Tel: +44-161-275-6137  (preferred email addr.)
(home) donal@ugglan.demon.co.uk  Tel: +44-1274-401017   Mobile: +44-7957-298955
http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~fellowsd/  (Don't quote my .sig; I've seen it before!)



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Subject: Re: HE from amazon.co.uk
Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 19:33:50 +1000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Barker" <heechee@softhome.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: HE from amazon.co.uk
Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 19:33:50 +1000
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----- Original Message -----
From: James Silva <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Monday, August 20, 2001 11:59 PM
Subject: RE: HE from amazon.co.uk


> Mr. James Barker, As an American, with a good deal of non American friends
> and acquaintences, I have only one comment for you:
>
> There are so many HUMANS that can be called, for lack of a better
> word...stupid. To limit this trait to one nation, is, for lack of a better
> word...stupid. :)
>

Absolutely correct, and I totally agree with you. In fact, if you'll notice,
in the postcript I jokingly accused some Australians of being "stupid",
also. <BG>

As I've stated before, it was a poor choice of words. Now please let's move
on.

Cheers,
Mr. James Barker



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From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 19:32:16 +1000 (GMT+1000)
From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Typo
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I've also notice several times throughout the book (sorry, cant find the
page references) that the plural of "Doe" (being a female deer), is spelt
"Does", shouldn't it be "Doe's" or "Does'"


> I've finally finished reading my book of Honoured Enemy. It was a great
> book.
> Since other people have done so, I'm going to take the liberty to point out
> a typing error:
>
> 10 lines down on page 300, it says: "A he heard Gregory's words..." I'm sure
> it's supposed to be "As he heard...."
>
>
> Sonia
> *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
> Est Sularis Oth Mithas
>
>

Thanks
Darragh
-=-=
www.iamtheporkfireman.com
[Email]: s356179@student.uq.edu.au [ICQ]: 114283262



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From: Alan Kellogg <mythusmage@cts.com>
Subject: Re: d20 gaming system
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 03:01:54 -0700
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Alan Kellogg <mythusmage@cts.com>
Subject: Re: d20 gaming system
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One thing to remember is that the d20 system as released in the 
Standard Reference Document can be modified as the user wishes. 
However, such changes must be released as open game content, and 
Abrams may wish to keep the Midbkimia system proprietary.

Alan
-- 
_______

Mythusmage.com, <http://www.mythusmage.com> at its new location!

mailto:mythusmage@mythusmage.com

ICQ: 103299329



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Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 12:03:21 +0200
From: Erik Trulsson <ertr1013@student.uu.se>
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On Tue, Aug 21, 2001 at 07:32:16PM +1000, Darragh Murray wrote:
> I've also notice several times throughout the book (sorry, cant find the
> page references) that the plural of "Doe" (being a female deer), is spelt
> "Does", shouldn't it be "Doe's" or "Does'"

I doubt it.  The apostrophe is normally not used for plurals but rather
for indicating a possessive form.
So "doe's" should only be used when talking about something belonging
to a doe, while "does'" (or should that be "does's" ?) is used when
talking about something that belongs to several does.

(You don't use "book's" as plural of "book" or "times'" as plural of
"time", do you? So why should "doe" be different?)


(I could of course be totally wrong about this, even if I doubt it. If
so I would be glad to be corrected.)

-- 
<Insert your favourite quote here.>
Erik Trulsson
ertr1013@student.uu.se



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In-Reply-To: <Pine.OSF.4.30.0108211931010.27133-100000@student.uq.edu.au
 >
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ARrrrggghhhh! erg ah hem.

The plural of doe, is does.  The doe's antlers (the antlers of
a single doe), the does' antlers (the collective antlers of 
several does).  So "The huntsman ignored the does, and 
concentrated instead on the bucks."

Sorry, apostrophes get up my nose.
rip

At 07:32 PM 8/21/01 +1000, Darragh Murray wrote:
>I've also notice several times throughout the book (sorry, cant find the
>page references) that the plural of "Doe" (being a female deer), is spelt
>"Does", shouldn't it be "Doe's" or "Does'"



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Subject: Re: d20 gaming system
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Subject: Re: d20 gaming system
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 07:48:56 -0300
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If i might chime in, Mr Feist,

I have a feeling, that many out there woudl like to see more and more games
migrate to the D-20 system ofr one reason (really): convenience.  Why learn
a whole new system, when you can simply adjust your games around another
system, in order to attract more people to it?  Exactly my point.

Personally, I think it woudl take the uniqueness out of some games, as it
"feels" like they are connected or associated with eachother, though they
are not.  For example, the New Sword and Sorcery stuff they have out, looks
and feels similar to the D&D refs -they were done by White Wolf! (I don' car
eif Wizards collaborated).

THey are of course doing this to sell more stuff, and jump back into a newly
revived market.  And who can blame them?  WOudln't you also want to climb
onto the back of a giant, just so tha tyou can be noticed?

Mr. Feist, if you have any power in this matter, leave the system exactly
the way it is.  IF people are no longer willing ht think and learn and
understand, when dealing with a different gaming system, then we're in
trouble (in the general sense).

Personally, I enjoy playing games using (former) FASA's D-6 system (called
Rolemaster?).  It is fairly simple and straightforward, and it only uses
D-6's!  ANyone can get these and I think that was a part of the point.
Granted, I think newer players (or rather players familiar and comfy with
the D-20 sys) might avoid great games such as Battletech, Shadowrun, your
RPG, and so on.

Again I say keep the system the way it is.  I don't see the D-20 system
lasting that long.  With soe many games using it, I think gamers might
eventually get bored with it and stop playing.  SUre, it's nice to be able
to jump into a game the uses the D-20 system, but IMO it removes some of the
originality form the piece.

I talk t much.

*-) Firesight *-)



----- Original Message -----
From: "Raymond Feist" <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Monday, August 20, 2001 1:13 PM
Subject: Re: d20 gaming system


>
> On Monday, August 20, 2001, at 06:46 AM, James Silva wrote:
>
> >
> > I am relatively new to the mailing list, about 3 months now, so any
> > heated discussions that transpired are news to me. Anyhow, I just
> > thought that if a new midkemia based game was POSSIBLY going to be
> > released, that the d20 system would be an ideal system to use.
> >
> > Adieu
> >
> > Jimmy
>
> The game system was developed over 20 years ago.  The reason it has
> never been published is that to this date it hasn't made financial sense
> to publish it.   But it's a complete system, not just a construction of
> modules that plug into another system like GURPS or D20 or AD&D.  Our
> combat system is different (and I think better than anything else I've
> seen) as are the rest of the rules, character development, time
> management rules, etc.
>
> That may change, but Steve and I have to sit down and discuss it.
>
> If we decide to publish, then the question of system becomes
> significant.  So much of what makes the game unique is that it doesn't
> relate to another system directly.  Rules for Lesser and Great Path
> magic, clerics, thieves, assassins, etc. are all uniquely Midkemian.
>
> The problem with D&D/AD&D was that six sided dice tend to a bathtub
> curve, with 3.5 being your expected value for each die on average.  20
> sided is absolutely flat random, but there are times when you want a
> "curved" result.
>
> Still, if we ever do consider publishing the game in its entirety we'll
> talk about changes.
>
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
>
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
> stupidity.
>
>



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From: "Julie Wootten" <wootten@xtra.co.nz>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Typo
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 23:00:05 +1200
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Much easier to swap species of deer and refer to hinds and
stags.  Then the plurals don't look wierd. :-)

Julie.

> ARrrrggghhhh! erg ah hem.
> 
> The plural of doe, is does.  The doe's antlers (the antlers of
> a single doe), the does' antlers (the collective antlers of 
> several does).  So "The huntsman ignored the does, and 
> concentrated instead on the bucks."
> 
> Sorry, apostrophes get up my nose.
> rip



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Subject: Re: d20 gaming system
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Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 08:03:46 -0300
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SOrry, I don't buy that arguement, Mr. Silva

Publishign under this D-20 system really only makes selling it easier.  This
is strictly conjecture, but I beleive that if game under a different system
are advertised well, then they will entice people to them.  It is just that,
the popularized system makes this sort of  thing easier.

Sacrificing uniqueness and variety for ease of play, under one system (under
one flag)?  I won't buy it.  ANd it's a good thing I haven't started either.

*-) Firesight *-)

----- Original Message -----
From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Monday, August 20, 2001 9:13 PM
Subject: Re: d20 gaming system


>
>
> Hey Earl, chill out! It's obvious that Craig is concerned with the
> commercial success of any possible Midkemia based role playing game, hence
> the opinion that basing it on the d20 system would greatly increase its
> chances of being a success. Now, this may be at the expense of the game's
> quality, but if the game dosen't sell, it isn't worth (financilly speaking
> of course) the investment to produce it. The d20 system has become so
> popular and so profitable, that one would be a fool to not consider the
> positives and negatives of producing a new role playing game product using
> that system compared to a system unique to the new RPG.
>
> Adieu
>
> Jimmy
>
>
> >From: "Earl Borah" <earl@ncn.com>
> >Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> >To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
> >Subject: Re: d20 gaming system
> >Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 11:17:26 -0700
> >
> > > > Our combat system is different (and I think better than anything
> > > > else I've seen) as are the rest of the rules, character development,
> > > > time management rules, etc.
> >
> >SNIP
> >
> > >  I would fear
> > > that if you ever did release your own game system then it would fail
> > > just because of the sheer amount of gaming material out there right
> > > now (alot of it being d20) and then, to even survive, you'd be stuck
> > > going to d20 as well.
> >
> >Since it's "survived" for many years without being converted to d20,
> >I don't think it's a major concern for Ray or Steve. If they ever
> >decide to release it, then it's up to them to decide the terms. Until
> >such a decision is made, arguments for or against a particular game
> >system (or any other related details) are premature.
> >
> >Furthermore, since you can't possibly know what the differences are
> >between Midkemia's rules and the d20 rules, predicting the success or
> >failure of one version or another is a rather egotistical form of
> >fortune telling.
> >
> >If you're incredibly interested in hypothetical discussions with
> >little grounding in facts, then hypothesize away. Otherwise, admit
> >ignorance (without a negative connotation -- we're all ignorant
> >regarding the specifics on this issue, except for Ray and Steve and
> >the rest of the group that played with them years ago) and leave it
> >be. It's not your decision anyway, any more than you can decide what
> >Ray's next book will be about.
> >
> >-----
> >   "I dislike being wrong, and having to admit it publicly later. It's
> >   embarrassing, humiliating, and unnecessary. It would have been just
> >   as easy, and much more pleasant, to have been right in the first
place."
> >     - Jack Richard, former Editor of Boardwatch Magazine
> >
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>
>



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From: "Firesight" <wolfriderfiresight@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re: d20 gaming system
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 07:53:55 -0300
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I agree Craig,

I think that the system might be in jeopardy -a victim of it's own
popularity.  In the attempt to "keep up" and sell using a popular system,
much originality and uniqueness will be lost.  If the gamers don't feel that
what they are playing is original enough (compared to most everything else
iwthin the genre), then they will stop playing and move on.

IN the title I've been working on with some friends, it sortof uses an
inverted D-20 system (you are tryign for the lowest rolls, and not the
highest).  Looks liek it will work out, but it needs som eplaytesting first.
The system makes sense for the game I'm working on.

*-) Firesight *-)

----- Original Message -----
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Monday, August 20, 2001 2:53 PM
Subject: Re: d20 gaming system


> Raymond Feist wrote:
> >
> > Our combat system is different (and I think better than anything else I've
> > seen) as are the rest of the rules, character development, time
> > management rules, etc.
>
> Not that I want to see every game company dump off their own systems and
> embrance d20 (I really don't want to see that happen, but it is), but
> Sovereign Stone had it's own game system, and people seemed to love the
> mechanics, yet the game failed to stand on it's own, sadly, and they
> moved to d20. In the process, they had to rework their magic system to
> make it fit with d20... well, more like change d20's magic to fit Sov
> Stone.
>
> I really wish they didn't have to make that change, but I would fear
> that if you ever did release your own game system then it would fail
> just because of the sheer amount of gaming material out there right now
> (alot of it being d20) and then, to even survive, you'd be stuck going
> to d20 as well.
>
> Craig J. Ries
>
>



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Subject: Re: d20 gaming system
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 08:09:33 -0300
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Subject: Re: d20 gaming system
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 08:09:33 -0300
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Hear Hear!  I'll drink to that...no wiat, I have something to ay first
(yeah, like you are all excited about that, now that I'm actively back on
this list again).

Heh Heh.

WHile they don't really compare, I'm finding that dead roleplaying, strategy
and fantasy board games, last much longer, than old, dead, collectible card
games.  SUre, this goes down to the fanbase and the devotion to see it
remain alive.  The differenc ehowever, is that it is easier to get
everythign you want/need for that system (eBay, YAY!), than for a CCG; this
is in the affordability sense, and not the availability sense.

Findgin that out with the Battletech:CCG, as opposed to somethign like
HeroQuest.   THen agian, mayb epeple are snaggin' those up for the
minatures.  Maybe...I would.

*-) Firesight *-)

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jason Mulligan" <sulimo@bigpond.net.au>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Monday, August 20, 2001 9:40 PM
Subject: Re: d20 gaming system


> On 20/08/2001 at 18:33 PM Craig J. Ries wrote:
>
> >Scott Nimmo wrote:
> >>
> >> It makes me wonder whether Decipher is shooting themselves in the foot
> >with
> >> making the Lord of the Ring RPG with their own system rather than d20.
> >
> >Who can say, really. Sales numbers will be the determining factor in the
> >end.
>
> I glad it didnt happen. Middle Earth as a d20 setting is just too scary to
> contemplate.
>
> >As I said, I prefer variety... recently I got involved with a campaign
> >playing GammaWorld, of all things! :)
> >I'm one of the ones that don't want d20 to be the end-all of gaming.
>
> Same here. I dont want to see all the cool games just becoming another
> d20 setting. But then, this was my fear right from the start when I heard
> about the d20 project. That d20 will become the Microsoft of rpgs. All the
> other cool games putting out d20 supplements, and finding many more
> sales in the d20 version, they dump the original (and in most cases better
> game). Although at least with dead rpgs its easier to continue using them
> than dead computer OS's.
>
>
>



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Subject: Re: d20 gaming system
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Subject: Re: d20 gaming system
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MIght be smarter yet to ride it out for a few years.  Wait to see how D-20
really holds upto gamer scrutiny, and then look at using it in your
products.

It's an idea I am persuing myself.  I am in no big hurry to publish
something that is differnt, but well-crafted.  If D-20 really is the
difference between success and failure, I"m in no hurry.  I will not conform
to sell products!

*-) Firesight *-)

----- Original Message -----
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Monday, August 20, 2001 9:56 PM
Subject: Re: d20 gaming system


> Jason Mulligan wrote:
> >
> > Same here. I dont want to see all the cool games just becoming another
> > d20 setting. But then, this was my fear right from the start when I heard
> > about the d20 project. That d20 will become the Microsoft of rpgs. All the
> > other cool games putting out d20 supplements, and finding many more
> > sales in the d20 version, they dump the original (and in most cases better
> > game). Although at least with dead rpgs its easier to continue using them
> > than dead computer OS's.
>
> *chuckle* Well, I had the chance to talk to my local gaming/comic shop
> owner when he got back from GenCon, and he said even he was a bit amazed
> at the amount of d20 gaming material that was out there and that he
> never even had the opportunity to look at d20 Sov Stone (I asked him to
> look at it since d20 is doing well and he gave up on the original Sov
> Stone products).
>
> When you see stuff like White Wolf doing Ravenloft (no surprise) in d20,
> and then Star Wars going to d20, and who knows what else has already,
> only time will tell if any other gaming system will last, or any world
> will not go to d20.
>
> Craig J. Ries
>
>



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Subject: Re: d20 gaming system
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Subject: Re: d20 gaming system
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As did we, though I don't think our strategy game is near so complicated
as what yours turn out to be, Mr. Feist.

I am wholey impressed!  Maybe ours will flesh out, after the
betatesting, in a few weeks.  I surely hope so, as it's looking quite
barren at the present.

*-) Firesight *-)

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On 21/08/2001 at 7:48 AM Firesight wrote:

>If i might chime in, Mr Feist,
>
>I have a feeling, that many out there woudl like to see more and more games
>migrate to the D-20 system ofr one reason (really): convenience.  Why learn
>a whole new system, when you can simply adjust your games around another
>system, in order to attract more people to it?  Exactly my point.

Perhaps some. I certainly dont. Especially if the system (d20) goes against the 
flavour of the game world. As for the reason to learn a new system, it's simple: some 
game systems are simply better at doing certain styles or genres better than others. Especially 
those systems that are built from the ground up to specifically cater to that style or genre. 

>Personally, I enjoy playing games using (former) FASA's D-6 system (called
>Rolemaster?).  It is fairly simple and straightforward, and it only uses
>D-6's!  ANyone can get these and I think that was a part of the point.

You mean WEG's D6 system dont you? FASA had a variety of systems (for 
Mechwarrior, Shadowrun and Earthdawn) which werent all the same mechanically. 
Whilst RoleMaster was ICE's system which was a percentile system.

>Again I say keep the system the way it is.  I don't see the D-20 system
>lasting that long.  With soe many games using it, I think gamers might

I unfortunately disagree. I think that borg-like d20 will consume other games. Especially 
those games whose focus has been on an atmospheric setting. Thats why you see stuff 
like d20 Deadlands or CoC. So, in the end you'll be left with d20 and GURPS.

>eventually get bored with it and stop playing.  SUre, it's nice to be able
>to jump into a game the uses the D-20 system, but IMO it removes some of
>the originality form the piece.

I definitely want to see (if any game is published) the 'real deal' rather 
than a watered down and shoe-horned d20 setting. Otherwise, I'd prefer just 
to see a good atlas and encyclopedia that we can all use for our games. 

e



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From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Maps
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Someone brought up the comment that they would rather see a good 
Atlas/Encyclopedia, than a poorly written d20 system for Midkemia that 
sacrificed the uniqueness of Ray/Steve's world. This leads me to a few 
questions/statments for Ray:

1. How is the Atlas of Midkemia project coming along anyway?

2. What will it contain?

3. I just finished HE. I loved it! One thing, I found it a bit difficult to 
visualize some of the area described with the standard map. Using the map in 
the back of ADaS made it a bit easier, but since the locations in HE are not 
on the older ADaS map, it still was not as clear as it could of been. I 
guess my question is: "why don't you include maps like the blowup of the 
northland found in ADaS in your books written after The King's Buccaneer?

Adieu

Jimmy

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp



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From: Fred Collington <fcolling@yahoo.com>
Subject: Mad God
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 07:36:38 -0700 (PDT)
From: Fred Collington <fcolling@yahoo.com>
Subject: Mad God
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

>>From: Valheru89@aol.com
>>Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 15:23:43 EDT
>>Subject: (no subject)
>>To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
>>Mime-Version: 1.0
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>>
>>Hey I know the question I am going to ask has been
>>asked before but I 
>>just got to  it in my book so here we go: What made
>>the Mad God Mad?
>>-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> 
> Check rip's/Donal's archives - this came up on the
> list about a week ago.

Actually, the archives are incorrect. What really mad
him mad was the driving of the other gods. For
example, when Hilda  gets behind the wheel, it always
'drive slow in the fast lane' Sheesh - you'd think
that after a millinia or two they would get it right.
Or left if a British god.


=====
Fred Collington
Oracle DBA
Naval Air Warfare Center, Training Systems Division

__________________________________________________
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References: <200108201612.f7KGCqR29131@smtp1.san.rr.com> <OE53txQEfQm5UpSKyeo00001c3f@hotmail.com> <200108212125350531.02860F88@mail-hub>
Subject: Re: d20 gaming system
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 12:07:16 -0300
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Subject: Re: d20 gaming system
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All good points Jason.

Well I wasn't really sure on the Rolemaster thing, as I've only heard *of*
it, in name only.  Yes, I htink I was making an educate quess.

Still think the D-6 systems the former FASA Empire  were/are good, simple,
fairly straightforward system.  IF they were to change them over to D-20,
then all the games under the D-6 sys that they use woudl change drastically.

I still refuse to beleive that the system shoudl make the game, and I think
I hav ea few supporters in that camp.  THus saying, that he D-20 system
won't last as long as you might think -not to be replace, only narrowed.

Sure, there are great games out, that have been adjusted for the D-20
system.  Unfortunately, IMO, they need to do this in order to get exposure
and to sell their great games (which were great before).

I have bene playing D&D for the past month or os, and then we went to the
local game store and I thumbed through a Sword and Sorcery tome.  ANd I got
to thinking: why woudl I start into another world, when that world follows
the same rolling and damage system as a totally other, non-related world?
The system, is as important as the content or depth of the universe the
books were made for/around/under whatever.

THese are my opinions, so take them how you want.  I still hold that if
advertised well, the current game system Midkemia uses could sell, and sell
well.

THis i beleive andthis I have done with my own strategy game system (not
RPG, but still using talbes, dice rolling crit hits and so on).  The way the
system is setup, it is very simple and straightforward.  All one needs to
understand, is that they want the lowest number, and not the highest, wien
roll to hit, an dthis is all!

Anyway, back to talk about more Feist-related stuff!

*-) Firesight *-)

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jason Mulligan" <sulimo@bigpond.net.au>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2001 8:25 AM
Subject: Re: d20 gaming system


> On 21/08/2001 at 7:48 AM Firesight wrote:
>
> >If i might chime in, Mr Feist,
> >
> >I have a feeling, that many out there woudl like to see more and more games
> >migrate to the D-20 system ofr one reason (really): convenience.  Why learn
> >a whole new system, when you can simply adjust your games around another
> >system, in order to attract more people to it?  Exactly my point.
>
> Perhaps some. I certainly dont. Especially if the system (d20) goes against the
> flavour of the game world. As for the reason to learn a new system, it's simple: some
> game systems are simply better at doing certain styles or genres better than others. Especially
> those systems that are built from the ground up to specifically cater to that style or genre.
>
> >Personally, I enjoy playing games using (former) FASA's D-6 system (called
> >Rolemaster?).  It is fairly simple and straightforward, and it only uses
> >D-6's!  ANyone can get these and I think that was a part of the point.
>
> You mean WEG's D6 system dont you? FASA had a variety of systems (for
> Mechwarrior, Shadowrun and Earthdawn) which werent all the same mechanically.
> Whilst RoleMaster was ICE's system which was a percentile system.
>
> >Again I say keep the system the way it is.  I don't see the D-20 system
> >lasting that long.  With soe many games using it, I think gamers might
>
> I unfortunately disagree. I think that borg-like d20 will consume other games. Especially
> those games whose focus has been on an atmospheric setting. Thats why you see stuff
> like d20 Deadlands or CoC. So, in the end you'll be left with d20 and GURPS.
>
> >eventually get bored with it and stop playing.  SUre, it's nice to be able
> >to jump into a game the uses the D-20 system, but IMO it removes some of
> >the originality form the piece.
>
> I definitely want to see (if any game is published) the 'real deal' rather
> than a watered down and shoe-horned d20 setting. Otherwise, I'd prefer just
> to see a good atlas and encyclopedia that we can all use for our games.
>
> e
>
>



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So is a D20 RPG kind of like a card game if you use dice?



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oh thanks crig and all the rest for the explanations.



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Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 01:48:12 +1000
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Anestis Kozakis <kenosti@labyrinth.net.au>
Subject: Worst Day of My Life (So far)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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[Names have been removed to protect the innocent.  Unfortunately, I'm 
easily identifiable *grin*]

Excuse my ranting folks, but it's been just one of those days that I 
need to get off my chest.  it is also Feist related if you read the 
top section and the bottom.

It also makes for a good read.  If you've had a bad day, then read on 
and you migth feel better :-)

Argh!

If you think losing your job at the end of last year due to politics 
was bad, then you haven't had the day I just had!

I go out, head to my local shopping centre, and manage to find at 
K-Mart (a department store) a copy of Ray and Bill's "Honoured Enemy" 
for $30 Australian, so I buy it.

I get to my friend's house to do a spot of roleplaying it's D&D 3rd 
Ed. game), arrive early, so start reading HE.  I finish one chapter 
when my friends get home, and I find out they have had an accident, 
and both doors of the passenger side won't open (thankfully, my 
friend's weren't injured).  it's a very iffy issue as to whose fault 
the accident was.

I continue reading another half-chapter when everyone else arrives, 
and we start gaming.

Of course, none of rolls go my way, so I get confused by an Umber 
Hulk, as well as keep missing to hit him when I do manage to fight 
through the confusion.

So, the session finishes, and I head home, only to find the engine is 
about to overheat.  "I need water" I muse to myself, and get off the 
freeway to the closest petrol station (gas station for you in the US).

I pop the hood, fill the water storage areas, and get ready to go.

Of course, what did I do?  Accidently lock the door, with my keys in 
the ignition.

Having no roadside assistance form the RACV (Royal Automobile Club of 
Victoria) for this car (parents car), I was kinda stuck.

I try to ring home, but the phone line is in use (little brother 
connected to internet), and the petrol station attendant has no wires 
I can use to try and open the car door.

The petrol tanker comes in to refill the station, and of course I'm 
right in the way.  I explain to the driver that I can't move, and he 
says "Oh, I can open it if we have a piece of wire".  So off we go 
searching for something to jimmy the lock on the car door.

Meanwhile, I finally get through to home, but of course no one can be 
bothered to come and help and bring the spare keys.

We finally find something, and get the door open.  "Great" I say, and 
continue on home.

I toss my phone into a small holder-area between the driver and 
passenger seats and of I go back onto the freeway.

Unfortunately, the car is making strange noises, so I get off the 
freeway again, and stop at a red light.  The car stops, and steam is 
coming from the bonnet.
"Uh oh" I say, as well as other choice words which I shall not repeat.

I pop the hood, get out, and take a look at the engine, and unscrew 
the radiator cap.

Yes, I knew the dangers, but it needed to be done.  Of course I burnt 
a couple of sections on both hands due to the steam coming out, but 
it's not major.

So, I go to call home again, being a little closer.  "Oh, I left it 
in the car."  I go to get the phone out of the car.

More choice words, as I have, yet again, managed to lock the keys in the door.

You'd think I would have learned the first time around, but no.

What on earth did I do to deserve all this?

Luckily, there's a petrol station close by, and I run to see if they 
have any wire.  Of course not.

I head back, and wave down a car to see if I can use their mobile phone.

Luckily, this guy has a coat-hanger, gets my door open, and gets the 
car started, and I limp off to the the petrol station to fill the 
radiator with water.

I finally make it home at 1 a.m., two hours after leaving my friend's 
house (which is normally a 45 minute journey at that time of night),

I put the car in the driveway, go to lock the gates, and find the 
lock is stuck between two of the bars in the gate, so I can't lock 
them.

So I head inside, get online, catch up with e-mail, then will catchup 
with newsgroups, and finally, head to bed and continue reading HE 
(which I am enjoying immensely), as I will nto be able to get much 
sleep tonight.

So, if your day ever seems like it's going down hill, remember the 
day I had, and maybe things won't seem so bad after all :-)

Anestis (all of it's true).
-- 
kenosti@labyrinth.net.au
"A complete list of this film's associate producers
  is available upon request."
    -- In End Credits for "State and Main"



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 09:15:00 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Maps
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On Tuesday, August 21, 2001, at 06:49 AM, James Silva wrote:

> Someone brought up the comment that they would rather see a good 
> Atlas/Encyclopedia, than a poorly written d20 system for Midkemia that 
> sacrificed the uniqueness of Ray/Steve's world. This leads me to a few 
> questions/statments for Ray:
>
> 1. How is the Atlas of Midkemia project coming along anyway?

It isn't.  Currently it's on hold because of the demands on my time.  
That should end shortly as my divorce should be finalized next month, 
and when the current two books are finished, I'll sit down with Steve 
and we'll resume work.

>
> 2. What will it contain?

I won't detail that here, because some decisions have yet to be made.  
Lots of maps, obviously, with descriptions of people and areas, as well 
as a little bio info on significant characters.

>
> 3. I just finished HE. I loved it! One thing, I found it a bit 
> difficult to visualize some of the area described with the standard 
> map. Using the map in the back of ADaS made it a bit easier, but since 
> the locations in HE are not on the older ADaS map, it still was not as 
> clear as it could of been. I guess my question is: "why don't you 
> include maps like the blowup of the northland found in ADaS in your 
> books written after The King's Buccaneer?


Time and production costs didn't permit.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.

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Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 09:18:37 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Tuesday, August 21, 2001, at 08:48 AM, Anestis Kozakis wrote:

> [snip]

Man, there are days when you really feel like you must have pissed off 
some minor god, aren't there?

Best, R.E.F.

----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.

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Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 09:39:28 -0700
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Alan Kellogg <mythusmage@cts.com>
Subject: Re: Worst Day of My Life (So far)
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>  On Tuesday, August 21, 2001, at 08:48 AM, Anestis Kozakis wrote:
>
>>[snip]
>
>Man, there are days when you really feel like you must have pissed 
>off some minor god, aren't there?
>
>Best, R.E.F.

And minor gods are so childish.

Alan
-- 
_______

Mythusmage.com, <http://www.mythusmage.com> at its new location!

mailto:mythusmage@mythusmage.com

ICQ: 103299329

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From: "Earl Borah" <earl@ncn.com>
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> Furthermore, since you can't possibly know what the differences are
> between Midkemia's rules and the d20 rules, predicting the success or
> failure of one version or another is a rather egotistical form of
> fortune telling.
> 
> Immaterial, most purchases for roleplaying by gamers tends towards an
> impulse buy.

Good thing you're their market consultant, so you can give them the 
statistics on impulse buyers.


> Impulse buys are more likely if the ruleset is familiar.
> Real world examples of this can be found in my previous email for
> Sovereign Stone /d20.


Completely and totally material. I find it amazing that people can 
have a discussion of the merits of d20 compared to Midkemia. You may 
be an expert on d20 and everything ever associated with it, but 
unless you were part of Ray and Steve's group, you know next to 
nothing about their rules. This makes the entire discussion quite a 
waste of time.

Look, we simply don't have all the facts. We don't even have most of 
the facts, or a significant percentage of the facts. We are all very 
ignorant on at least half the relevant details for this discussion. 
To me, that suggests that it's ridiculous to have the discussion in 
the first place.

Sure your opinion matters. You're welcome to have an opinion on what 
Antarctica is like, and you can even share it with people. But if 
you've never been there (and never even heard all the details from 
someone who HAS been there), then I'm going to consider your opinion 
to be unworthy of any meaningful consideration, particularly when 
compared to the opinion of someone who has actually been there. 
That's where I sit on this whole topic -- you're debating the merits 
of something you know next-to-nothing about, which would be comical 
if it didn't generate such a huge amount of traffic that it's 
becoming annoying.

Someone else told me to lighten up. Good advice -- how about 
lightening up on the 30+ messages in just 2 days? Isn't it a bit 
presumptuous to tell Ray and Steve that you know how to handle their 
"product" better than they do (when you're not even certain what it 
is that they have)? Sit back, express your interest if you want, but 
let them make their own decisions. It's going to be their money and 
professional reputation on the line, not yours.

  - Earl Borah
-----
  If a man speaks in a forest and a woman isn't there to hear it,
  is he still wrong?              (author unknown)



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From: "Chris Smith" <cjs94@zepler.org.uk>
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Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 18:49:30 +0100
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On 21 Aug 2001, at 11:31, Richard Williamson wrote:

> ARrrrggghhhh! erg ah hem.
> 
> The plural of doe, is does.  The doe's antlers (the antlers of
> a single doe), the does' antlers (the collective antlers of 
> several does).  So "The huntsman ignored the does, and 
> concentrated instead on the bucks."
> 
> Sorry, apostrophes get up my nose.

Ok, so what about the other question - the possessive of a pronoun 
that ends in an "s"? If it was my nose in which the apostrophe was 
residing, would it be:

1. Chris' nose.
2. Chris's nose.
3. Chris nose.

I'm betting on 1. 2 is possible, but 3 just doesn't make sense...

Chris (whose nasal cavities, at this moment, are apostrophe free)


--
Chris Smith
Work: chris.smith@tfbplc.co.uk     Home: cjs94@zepler.org.uk
PGP Key available from public key servers; Key ID 0x8586B4B2
"Veni, vidi, velcro." - "I came, I saw, I stuck around."



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Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 11:09:44 -0700
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From: Alan Kellogg <mythusmage@cts.com>
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>On 21 Aug 2001, at 11:31, Richard Williamson wrote:
>
>>  ARrrrggghhhh! erg ah hem.
>>
>>  The plural of doe, is does.  The doe's antlers (the antlers of
>>  a single doe), the does' antlers (the collective antlers of
>>  several does).  So "The huntsman ignored the does, and
>>  concentrated instead on the bucks."
>>
>>  Sorry, apostrophes get up my nose.
>
>Ok, so what about the other question - the possessive of a pronoun
>that ends in an "s"? If it was my nose in which the apostrophe was
>residing, would it be:
>
>1. Chris' nose.
>2. Chris's nose.
>3. Chris nose.
>
>I'm betting on 1. 2 is possible, but 3 just doesn't make sense...
>
>Chris (whose nasal cavities, at this moment, are apostrophe free)
>
>
>--
>Chris Smith

1. Does, in general, do not have antlers. Reindeer and caribou does 
do, but they are specific cases.

2. #1. is the usage I prefer, but only because something like 
"Chris's" sounds awkward as all hell.

Alan
-- 
_______

Mythusmage.com, <http://www.mythusmage.com> at its new location!

mailto:mythusmage@mythusmage.com

ICQ: 103299329



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it would be Chris's nose because the rule is only for plurar names.

Syl (actually in Israel for work and soon in Turkey for holidays)



> On 21 Aug 2001, at 11:31, Richard Williamson wrote:
> 
> > ARrrrggghhhh! erg ah hem.
> > 
> > The plural of doe, is does.  The doe's antlers (the antlers of
> > a single doe), the does' antlers (the collective antlers of 
> > several does).  So "The huntsman ignored the does, and 
> > concentrated instead on the bucks."
> > 
> > Sorry, apostrophes get up my nose.
> 
> Ok, so what about the other question - the possessive of a pronoun 
> that ends in an "s"? If it was my nose in which the apostrophe was 
> residing, would it be:
> 
> 1. Chris' nose.
> 2. Chris's nose.
> 3. Chris nose.
> 
> I'm betting on 1. 2 is possible, but 3 just doesn't make sense...
> 
> Chris (whose nasal cavities, at this moment, are apostrophe free)
> 
> 
> --
> Chris Smith
> Work: chris.smith@tfbplc.co.uk     Home: cjs94@zepler.org.uk
> PGP Key available from public key servers; Key ID 0x8586B4B2
> "Veni, vidi, velcro." - "I came, I saw, I stuck around."
> 
> 

Fenyx Kell.



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On Tuesday, August 21, 2001, at 10:49 AM, Chris Smith wrote:

> On 21 Aug 2001, at 11:31, Richard Williamson wrote:
>
>> ARrrrggghhhh! erg ah hem.
>>
>> The plural of doe, is does.  The doe's antlers (the antlers of
>> a single doe), the does' antlers (the collective antlers of
>> several does).  So "The huntsman ignored the does, and
>> concentrated instead on the bucks."
>>
>> Sorry, apostrophes get up my nose.
>
> Ok, so what about the other question - the possessive of a pronoun
> that ends in an "s"? If it was my nose in which the apostrophe was
> residing, would it be:
>
> 1. Chris' nose.
> 2. Chris's nose.
> 3. Chris nose.

The rule is:

Singular nouns that end in "s" take "'s."  So it would be "Chris's nose."

Plural nouns that end in "s" take "'".  So it would be "Chrises' noses," 
assuming you were talking about two guys or girls named Chris.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
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Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 07:33:24 +1000 (GMT+1000)
From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
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Sorry, my mistake.

"Does" just looked a bit weird.


Damn, and to tihnk I've done enough grammar courses:)

*slaps head*


> On Tue, Aug 21, 2001 at 07:32:16PM +1000, Darragh Murray wrote:
> > I've also notice several times throughout the book (sorry, cant find the
> > page references) that the plural of "Doe" (being a female deer), is spelt
> > "Does", shouldn't it be "Doe's" or "Does'"
>
> I doubt it.  The apostrophe is normally not used for plurals but rather
> for indicating a possessive form.
> So "doe's" should only be used when talking about something belonging
> to a doe, while "does'" (or should that be "does's" ?) is used when
> talking about something that belongs to several does.
>
> (You don't use "book's" as plural of "book" or "times'" as plural of
> "time", do you? So why should "doe" be different?)
>
>
> (I could of course be totally wrong about this, even if I doubt it. If
> so I would be glad to be corrected.)
>
> --
> <Insert your favourite quote here.>
> Erik Trulsson
> ertr1013@student.uu.se
>
>

Thanks
Darragh
-=-=
www.iamtheporkfireman.com
[Email]: s356179@student.uq.edu.au [ICQ]: 114283262



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On Tuesday, August 21, 2001, at 02:33 PM, Darragh Murray wrote:

> Sorry, my mistake.
>
> "Does" just looked a bit weird.
>
>
> Damn, and to tihnk I've done enough grammar courses:)
>
> *slaps head*


Context.

Polish that table, please.  It came from Eastern Europe.  It's Polish.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 17:39:56 -0500
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: d20 gaming system
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Alan Kellogg wrote:
> 
> One thing to remember is that the d20 system as released in the
> Standard Reference Document can be modified as the user wishes.

But that brings up another point: how much can you change d20 and it
still be the d20 system?
Are companies making severe changes to d20 and yet calling it d20 to
make their product viable? Or would some of these companies be better
off not calling it d20 at all?

You can only change something so much and still call it the same thing.

Craig J. Ries



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Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 17:41:34 -0500
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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Firesight wrote:
> 
> If i might chime in, Mr Feist,
> 
> I have a feeling, that many out there woudl like to see more and more games
> migrate to the D-20 system ofr one reason (really): convenience.  Why learn
> a whole new system, when you can simply adjust your games around another
> system, in order to attract more people to it?  Exactly my point.

And if somebody doesn't like d20? They're forced to change everything to
another system (if they even care to bother).

I've talked to people on all sides: those that like d20, those that
don't like it, those that love D&D, those that don't.

Just because everything is d20 is convenient doesn't mean it's a good
thing :)

Craig J. Ries



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From: Valheru89@aol.com
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 20:58:52 EDT
Subject: Question
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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     I am reading A Darkness at Sethanon and Ii am 1 chapter away from being 
done and i have a question. On page 343 it says: "Ashen-Shugar severed 
Darkin-Korin's head from his shoulders, and suddenly both body and head 
vanished in a hiss of smoke". But then when Tomas (Ashen-Shugar) is in 
Darkin-Korin (the city) Darkin-Korin comes through the rift with a Dread Lord 
and fights Tomas. My question is how does he fight Tomas (Ashen-Shugar) When 
he killed him all thoughs years ago.

                        Chance

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From: "Russell Teeter" <rteeter@sitelite.com>
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If I am not mistaken, Drakin-Korin had already put some of his "essence"
into the Enemy before he fought Ashen-Shugar.  In fact, all of them
except Ashen-Shugar gave a part of themselves up to make the Enemy.

-----Original Message-----
>From: Valheru89@aol.com [mailto:Valheru89@aol.com]
>Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2001 5:59 PM
>To: FEISTFANS-L
>Subject: Question
>
>
>   I am reading A Darkness at Sethanon and Ii am 1 chapter away from
>being 
>done and i have a question. On page 343 it says: "Ashen-Shugar severed 
>Darkin-Korin's head from his shoulders, and suddenly both body and head 
>vanished in a hiss of smoke". But then when Tomas (Ashen-Shugar) is in 
>Darkin-Korin (the city) Darkin-Korin comes through the rift with a Dread
>Lord 
>and fights Tomas. My question is how does he fight Tomas (Ashen-Shugar)
>When 
>he killed him all thoughs years ago. 
>
>			Chance 

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From: Allan Mills <milla@css.com.au>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" (FEISTFANS-L) <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Question
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 11:50:36 +1000
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 When Ashen-Shugar beheaded him it did say his essence rose up from him to
rejoin the chaos raging in the sky. 
The enemy was a vague term the Tsurani had to describe those that attacked
their ancestors. The Valheru probably weren't stopping to talk so they
didn't know any specifics.

 Allan
 
-----Original Message-----
>From: Russell Teeter [mailto:rteeter@sitelite.com]
>Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2001 11:33 AM
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: RE: Question
>
>
>If I am not mistaken, Drakin-Korin had already put some of his "essence"
>into the Enemy before he fought Ashen-Shugar.  In fact, all of them except
>Ashen-Shugar gave a part of themselves up to make the Enemy.
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Valheru89@aol.com [mailto:Valheru89@aol.com]
>Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2001 5:59 PM
>To: FEISTFANS-L
>Subject: Question
>
>
>   I am reading A Darkness at Sethanon and Ii am 1 chapter away from being 
>done and i have a question. On page 343 it says: "Ashen-Shugar severed 
>Darkin-Korin's head from his shoulders, and suddenly both body and head 
>vanished in a hiss of smoke". But then when Tomas (Ashen-Shugar) is in 
>Darkin-Korin (the city) Darkin-Korin comes through the rift with a Dread
>Lord 
>and fights Tomas. My question is how does he fight Tomas (Ashen-Shugar) When
>
>he killed him all thoughs years ago. 
>
>			Chance 
>


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Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 15:59:12 +1000 (GMT+1000)
From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
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While Drakin Korin's body was slain by Ashen Shugar eons ago, his
spirit/or essence was not.

Thus, Tomas was fighting a reincarnated (right term?) form of Drakin
Korin.

> If I am not mistaken, Drakin-Korin had already put some of his "essence"
> into the Enemy before he fought Ashen-Shugar.  In fact, all of them
> except Ashen-Shugar gave a part of themselves up to make the Enemy.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Valheru89@aol.com [mailto:Valheru89@aol.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2001 5:59 PM
> To: FEISTFANS-L
> Subject: Question
>
>
>    I am reading A Darkness at Sethanon and Ii am 1 chapter away from
> being
> done and i have a question. On page 343 it says: "Ashen-Shugar severed
> Darkin-Korin's head from his shoulders, and suddenly both body and head
> vanished in a hiss of smoke". But then when Tomas (Ashen-Shugar) is in
> Darkin-Korin (the city) Darkin-Korin comes through the rift with a Dread
> Lord
> and fights Tomas. My question is how does he fight Tomas (Ashen-Shugar)
> When
> he killed him all thoughs years ago.
>
>                        Chance
>
>

Thanks
Darragh
-=-=
www.iamtheporkfireman.com
[Email]: s356179@student.uq.edu.au [ICQ]: 114283262



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From: Allan Mills <milla@css.com.au>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" (FEISTFANS-L) <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Question [possible ADAS] spoiler
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 16:10:06 +1000
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From: Allan Mills <milla@css.com.au>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" (FEISTFANS-L) <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Question [possible ADAS] spoiler
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 16:10:06 +1000
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: Darragh Murray [mailto:s356179@student.uq.edu.au]
> Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2001 3:59 PM
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Subject: RE: Question [possible ADAS] spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While Drakin Korin's body was slain by Ashen Shugar eons ago, his
> spirit/or essence was not.
> 
> Thus, Tomas was fighting a reincarnated (right term?) form of Drakin
> Korin.
> 

 That's always been my assumption but it is a little odd. The Valheru might
be strong but getting your head lopped off suggests something fairly
permanent.

 Allan



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S
p
o
i
l
e
r
 
S
p
a
c
e





Then again, there is the point raised in the Serpentwar that Thomas's Valheru 
memories were suspect.

alan.



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Subject: Re: Question
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> 
> 
> 
> S
> p
> o
> i
> l
> e
> r
>  
> S
> p
> a
> c
> e
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then again, there is the point raised in the Serpentwar that Thomas's Valheru 
> memories were suspect.
> 
> alan.
> 
> 

what ????

Syl



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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Honoured Enemy
Cc: Alan.Hargreaves@Sun.COM
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Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 23:14:05 +1000
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Just finished it. As usual, a fantastic read Ray. Well done. The culmination 
kind of rushed up on me and passed before I realised it, but I found as I was 
going through the last couple of chapters that I could not put it down. Given 
all that went before, I think that the way that you and William tied the 
threads together in these last few chapters was spot on.

Thanks.


alan.
--
Alan Hargreaves                 Senior Technical Support Specialist
Phone      : +61 2 9844 5379    Technical Support Group
Mobile     : +61 416 207 573    APAC Customer Care Centre
Fax        : +61 2 9418 2143    Sun Microsystems Australia
Call Centre: 1 800 555 786      828 Pacific Highway, Gordon NSW 2072

    "On two occasions, I have been asked [by members of Parliament],
    'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will
    the right answers come out?' I am not able to rightly apprehend
    the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question."

					  -- Charles Babbage



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From: Valheru89@aol.com
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 11:40:17 EDT
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   Hey I am inbarking on Krondor The Betrayal and I just wanted to know if it 
was as good as the others if not better?

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From: "C.T. Cusimano" <supert@redshift.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Honoured Enemy
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 08:50:33 -0700
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the video game is better than the book
for BaK
though the book is a fun read to go back and visit characters
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: Valheru89@aol.com 
>To: FEISTFANS-L 
>Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2001 8:40 AM
>Subject: Re: Honoured Enemy
>
>
> Hey I am inbarking on Krondor The Betrayal and I just wanted to know if it 
>was as good as the others if not better? 

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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 09:21:33 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Wednesday, August 22, 2001, at 06:14 AM, Alan.Hargreaves@Sun.COM 
wrote:

> Just finished it. As usual, a fantastic read Ray. Well done. The 
> culmination
> kind of rushed up on me and passed before I realised it, but I found as 
> I was
> going through the last couple of chapters that I could not put it down. 
> Given
> all that went before, I think that the way that you and William tied the
> threads together in these last few chapters was spot on.
>
> Thanks.

You're welcome.  Thanks for the kind words.

Best,R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 10:11:14 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: feISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Reviews
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Mr. Forstchen called my attention to the fact that our reviews at 
Amazon.co.uk are marred by a particularly dismissive negative one to 
start with, skewing the average to a far-thee-well.

So, should any of you be inclined to go over there and sing our praises, 
we won't object. <evil grin>

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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From: Valheru89@aol.com
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Oh ok thanks 

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From: "Darren McClung" <d@dwmc.org>
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> Oh ok thanks
>

Could you please avoid sending one line messages such as this one to the
FeistFans list?  At the very least, try to quote some of the message you are
replying to.  We get a LOT of messages to the list, so if you don't quote
the message you reply to, we have no clue what you're trying to say.

Thanks,

Darren



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Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com> writes
>Mr. Forstchen called my attention to the fact that our reviews at 
>Amazon.co.uk are marred by a particularly dismissive negative one to 
>start with, skewing the average to a far-thee-well.
>
>So, should any of you be inclined to go over there and sing our 
>praises, we won't object. <evil grin>
>
>Best, R.E.F.

Now now Ray that is loading the numbers :)
What you should do is go to Amazon and compliment Bill's parts of the 
book, and have Bill do the same for yours <G>
-- 
John

john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.

Raymond E Feist Ring
http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm



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From: Jimmre@aol.com
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Hi all,
  Just went and reviewed. How long before it posts the new reviews
and star rating? Mine did not show when I went back to check. Thanks.

Jim



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*** EOOH ***
From: "Kevin Cartee" <nymetsny@home.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Reviews
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 15:35:23 -0400
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

LOL!

Anyways, there are so many people on this list that have replied saying
they liked the book, but it seems that the only people who have reviewed
it on the site are the people who didn't like the book!  Which gives it
an unfair review........

-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of John
>Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2001 2:10 PM
>To: FEISTFANS-L
>Subject: Re: Reviews
>
>Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com> writes
>>Mr. Forstchen called my attention to the fact that our reviews at 
>>Amazon.co.uk are marred by a particularly dismissive negative one to 
>>start with, skewing the average to a far-thee-well.
>>
>>So, should any of you be inclined to go over there and sing our 
>>praises, we won't object. <evil grin>
>>
>>Best, R.E.F.
>
>Now now Ray that is loading the numbers :)
>What you should do is go to Amazon and compliment Bill's parts of the 
>book, and have Bill do the same for yours <G>
>-- 
>John
>
>john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
>http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.
>
>Raymond E Feist Ring
>http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm
>


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*** EOOH ***
From: Valheru89@aol.com
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 15:31:42 EDT
Subject: Re: (no subject)
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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sorry Darren I will try not to thank people about helping me. I sent thank 
you to the list beacause many people answered and helped about my question 
about how was darkin korin still alive.

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From: Joshua Stanton <jasharkalain@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Honoured Enemy
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 12:38:11 -0700 (PDT)
From: Joshua Stanton <jasharkalain@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Honoured Enemy
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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IMHO, no.  That whole series didn't seem to ring the
same bell as the rest of his books.  Bit of a
disappointment-but that's only my openion; others have
said they loved it.

Don't flame me,
~Joshua~

--- Valheru89@aol.com wrote:
>    Hey I am inbarking on Krondor The Betrayal and I
> just wanted to know if it 
> was as good as the others if not better?
> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger
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To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Magnus Arvidsson" <magnus.arvidsson75@telia.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: (no subject)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 22:15:02 +0200
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Hi there.. Please don't misunderstand what Darren posted.
It's actually real simple. Just don't delete the contents of the
post you are replying to, keep the message intact. Or 
send the "thank you" directly 
to the persons "responsible" for helping you, not to the list.

Cheers, Magnus

>sorry Darren I will try not to thank people about helping me. I sent thank 
>you to the list beacause many people answered and helped about my question 
>about how was darkin korin still alive. 

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Subject: Re: Reviews
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Magnus Arvidsson" <magnus.arvidsson75@telia.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Reviews
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 22:29:09 +0200
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I just left a positive reveiw on amazon.co.uk.. =)

You deserve it Ray (and Forstchen too)

Magnus

> Mr. Forstchen called my attention to the fact that our reviews at 
> Amazon.co.uk are marred by a particularly dismissive negative one to 
> start with, skewing the average to a far-thee-well.
> 
> So, should any of you be inclined to go over there and sing our praises, 
> we won't object. <evil grin>
> 
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
> 
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
> stupidity.
> 



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From: Paavo Kakko <joeru@mbnet.fi>
Subject: Re: Honoured Enemy
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 23:44:26 +0300
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Paavo Kakko <joeru@mbnet.fi>
Subject: Re: Honoured Enemy
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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  I don't know, I liked KtB pretty much, I don't think it did injustice to
the game, and I very much liked the chat Gorath and that other moredhel
chieftain had, you know, the one they helped to escape from the naptha
(sp?) mine. The comment about how strange they thought human were and all,
gave it a lot of depth, IMHO.
  I had nothing against KtA either, but, like said, it was sort of a
hack'n'slash book. Didn't reveal much new about Midkemia, nor presented any
sort of change. Just happen to like that kind of stuff, I enjoy interaction
between different cultures.
  
At 12:38 22.8.2001 -0700, you wrote:
>IMHO, no.  That whole series didn't seem to ring the
>same bell as the rest of his books.  Bit of a
>disappointment-but that's only my openion; others have
>said they loved it.
>
>Don't flame me,
>~Joshua~
>
>--- Valheru89@aol.com wrote:
>>    Hey I am inbarking on Krondor The Betrayal and I
>> just wanted to know if it 
>> was as good as the others if not better?
>> 


 -- Paavo Kakko

"The perfect gentleman is he who never unintentionally causes pain."

 PS. Empire Trilogy is my favorite serie, but, uh, guess that wasn't too
much of a surprise after reading my post? Serpentwar comes pretty close,
Magician was good for an  adrenaline-rush.
 PPS. Actually trying to read a book on social anthropology .. interesting
stuff ..



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 13:44:46 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
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On Wednesday, August 22, 2001, at 12:31 PM, Valheru89@aol.com wrote:

> sorry Darren I will try not to thank people about helping me. I sent 
> thank
> you to the list beacause many people answered and helped about my 
> question
> about how was darkin korin still alive.
>

His complaint wasn't that you sent thanks to the list, rather that you 
didn't indicate who it was for.  Had you but said, "I want to thank all 
the people who answered my question . . ."  no one would have said boo.

Best, R.E.F
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.

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From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 07:34:13 +1000 (GMT+1000)
From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Reviews
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> Mr. Forstchen called my attention to the fact that our reviews at
> Amazon.co.uk are marred by a particularly dismissive negative one to
> start with, skewing the average to a far-thee-well.
> So, should any of you be inclined to go over there and sing our praises,
> we won't object. <evil grin>
> Best, R.E.F.


I'll do it for an acknowledgement in the next book you write:)

*grin*

Thanks
Darragh
-=-=
www.iamtheporkfireman.com
[Email]: s356179@student.uq.edu.au [ICQ]: 114283262



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Subject: OT:Can anyone read me
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 23:42:10 +0200
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Magnus Arvidsson" <magnus.arvidsson75@telia.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: OT:Can anyone read me
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 23:42:10 +0200
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or am I filtered?
 =) 

I just wonder, that's all.

Prost,

Magnus

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Subject: Honoured Enemy
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 18:27:44 -0400
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Sean Fister <sean@itiseasy.com>
Subject: Honoured Enemy
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Ray,

I would also like to offer my complements on a very fine book.  You and Mr. 
Forstchen did a wonderful job on this book.  I thought the ending had a 
nice note of irony too.  Again thanks for another great book.

Sean Fister



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*** EOOH ***
From: Allan Mills <milla@css.com.au>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" (FEISTFANS-L) <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Reviews
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 08:42:26 +1000
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 It said two business days when I submitted my review. They have to check it
for foul language etc first.

 Allan

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jimmre@aol.com [mailto:Jimmre@aol.com]
> Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2001 5:31 AM
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Subject: Re: Reviews
> 
> 
> Hi all,
>   Just went and reviewed. How long before it posts the new 
> reviews and star rating? Mine did not show when I went back 
> to check. Thanks.
> 
> Jim
> 
> 



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 16:48:32 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Wednesday, August 22, 2001, at 03:27 PM, Sean Fister wrote:

> Ray,
>
> I would also like to offer my complements on a very fine book.  You and 
> Mr. Forstchen did a wonderful job on this book.  I thought the ending 
> had a nice note of irony too.  Again thanks for another great book.
>
> Sean Fister
>
>

Glad you enjoyed it.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 16:48:04 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT:Can anyone read me
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On Wednesday, August 22, 2001, at 02:42 PM, Magnus Arvidsson wrote:

> or am I filtered?
>  =)
>  
> I just wonder, that's all.
>  
> Prost,
>  
> Magnus


Oh, we can read you . . . like a book! <g>

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.

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From: "Steven McCarthy" <steven@connect.ie>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Typo
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 01:00:53 +0100
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Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: "Steven McCarthy" <steven@connect.ie>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Typo
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 01:00:53 +0100
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Nope. Does is the plural of Doe. Doe's indicates the possessive (as is the
Doe's nose) and Does' indicates the possessive of a group of Does (as in the
Does' noses). ... or something *G*

Steve

"Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then
do it." -- Lazarus Long

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Darragh Murray
> Sent: 21 August 2001 10:32
> To: FEISTFANS-L
> Subject: Re: Typo
>
>
> I've also notice several times throughout the book (sorry, cant find the
> page references) that the plural of "Doe" (being a female deer), is spelt
> "Does", shouldn't it be "Doe's" or "Does'"
>



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From: "Steven McCarthy" <steven@connect.ie>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Typo
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 01:01:21 +0100
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Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: "Steven McCarthy" <steven@connect.ie>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Typo
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 01:01:21 +0100
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

And you only use 2 ' in your post. Does that mean you only have 2
no'stril's? *EG*

Steve

"Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then
do it." -- Lazarus Long

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Richard Williamson
> Sent: 21 August 2001 11:32
> To: FEISTFANS-L
> Subject: Re: Typo
>
>
> ARrrrggghhhh! erg ah hem.
>
> The plural of doe, is does.  The doe's antlers (the antlers of
> a single doe), the does' antlers (the collective antlers of
> several does).  So "The huntsman ignored the does, and
> concentrated instead on the bucks."
>
> Sorry, apostrophes get up my nose.
> rip
>



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From: "Magnus Arvidsson" <magnus.arvidsson75@telia.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
References: <200108222347.f7MNlqj09915@smtp2.san.rr.com>
Subject: Re: OT:Can anyone read me
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Magnus Arvidsson" <magnus.arvidsson75@telia.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT:Can anyone read me
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 02:06:12 +0200
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Glad to hear that Ray! I was beginning to
feel lonely. ;o) Oh, by the way, I just begun
yet another re-reading of Magician. Ray, that 
paperback version is getting VERY worn now. I wonder
if I'm a little slow witted since I keep returning
to that particular novel time after time. Maybe 
there are others just like me? (I know there are, hehe)

Anyway, thank you ray for yet another great novel!

Magnus out.
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: Raymond Feist 
>To: FEISTFANS-L 
>Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2001 1:48 AM
>Subject: Re: OT:Can anyone read me
>
>
>On Wednesday, August 22, 2001, at 02:42 PM, Magnus Arvidsson wrote:
>
>>
>>or am I filtered?
>> =)
>> 
>>I just wonder, that's all.
>> 
>>Prost,
>> 
>>Magnus
>>
>
>
>Oh, we can read you . . . like a book! <g>
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by stupidity.

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Subject: Re: OT:Can anyone read me
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From: "Jeffrey Flower" <chronos@teamut.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT:Can anyone read me
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 07:41:51 -0500
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Magnus, I am right there with you, I am 29 and it is a goal of mine to
read a book a week, but while I have done that I think I have read
Ray's books over 50 times each.  I love the Riftwar saga and the
following books.  While each have there qualities and I love them all,
I don't think there is any part better than when Pug, as Milamber,
finally breaks and just roasts the Colliseum.  FEAR AND DESPAIR FOR I
AM POWER.  Just writing it down makes me want to go and read it again.
I compare it to Edding's Guardians of the West when Garion stands up
and uses the Sword and the Orb to completely dessimate the castle
wall.  If ever Raymond and David got together and wrote a series I
think I would lock myself in a room with a year of food and some good
classical music and just be euphoric.  Keep pumping them out
Mr. Feist, for I will keep buying them.

Jeffrey Flower
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: Magnus Arvidsson 
>To: FEISTFANS-L 
>Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2001 7:06 PM
>Subject: Re: OT:Can anyone read me
>
>
>Glad to hear that Ray! I was beginning to
>feel lonely. ;o) Oh, by the way, I just begun
>yet another re-reading of Magician. Ray, that 
>paperback version is getting VERY worn now. I wonder
>if I'm a little slow witted since I keep returning
>to that particular novel time after time. Maybe 
>there are others just like me? (I know there are, hehe)
>
>Anyway, thank you ray for yet another great novel!
>
>Magnus out.

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Subject: Re: Reviews 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 22 Aug 2001 22:29:09 +0200."
             <000d01c12b49$18f06820$ad5541d5@telia.com> 
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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Reviews 
Cc: Alan.Hargreaves@Sun.COM
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As have I.

> I just left a positive reveiw on amazon.co.uk.. =)
> 
> You deserve it Ray (and Forstchen too)
> 
> Magnus
> 
> > Mr. Forstchen called my attention to the fact that our reviews at 
> > Amazon.co.uk are marred by a particularly dismissive negative one to 
> > start with, skewing the average to a far-thee-well.
> > 
> > So, should any of you be inclined to go over there and sing our praises, 
> > we won't object. <evil grin>
> > 
> > Best, R.E.F.
> > ----
> > 
> > Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
> > stupidity.
> > 



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From: "Raine and Jamie" <ashika@pcisys.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
References: <200108222347.f7MNlqj09915@smtp2.san.rr.com> <002201c12b67$6b2fb8c0$ad5541d5@telia.com> <001601c12b07$d33054d0$3490180a@chronos>
Subject: Re: OT:Can anyone read me
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 19:42:53 -0600
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Raine and Jamie" <ashika@pcisys.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT:Can anyone read me
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 19:42:53 -0600
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

So, there are more like us!!  My husband and I replace all the
paperbacks at least once a year. We have the signed 1st's under lock
and key. It makes our marriage interesting as we debate which books
and parts are the best. He has his favorities and I have mine.

Raine
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: Jeffrey Flower 
>To: FEISTFANS-L 
>Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2001 6:41 AM
>Subject: Re: OT:Can anyone read me
>
>
>Magnus, I am right there with you, I am 29 and it is a goal of mine
>to read a book a week, but while I have done that I think I have
>read Ray's books over 50 times each.  I love the Riftwar saga and
>the following books.  While each have there qualities and I love
>them all, I don't think there is any part better than when Pug, as
>Milamber, finally breaks and just roasts the Colliseum.  FEAR AND
>DESPAIR FOR I AM POWER.  Just writing it down makes me want to go
>and read it again.  I compare it to Edding's Guardians of the West
>when Garion stands up and uses the Sword and the Orb to completely
>dessimate the castle wall.  If ever Raymond and David got together
>and wrote a series I think I would lock myself in a room with a year
>of food and some good classical music and just be euphoric.  Keep
>pumping them out Mr. Feist, for I will keep buying them.
>
>Jeffrey Flower

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*** EOOH ***
From: Valheru89@aol.com
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 22:59:45 EDT
Subject: Re: (no subject)
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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Oh ok thanks Ray I understand now. (that may have sounded sarcastic but it 
wasn't)

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*** EOOH ***
From: Allan Mills <milla@css.com.au>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" (FEISTFANS-L) <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: (no subject)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 13:28:17 +1000
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 You say you understand but you still don't include the previous post in
your response. What are you using as an e-mail client ? Most e-mail programs
have an option to include the previous message in your response.

 Allan
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Valheru89@aol.com [mailto:Valheru89@aol.com]
>Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2001 1:00 PM
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: Re: (no subject)
>
>
>Oh ok thanks Ray I understand now. (that may have sounded sarcastic but it 
>wasn't) 
>


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*** EOOH ***
From: Valheru89@aol.com
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 23:48:49 EDT
Subject: Re: (no subject)
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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AOL. I already tried to get it to work but it does not include the previous 
message

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*** EOOH ***
From: KSimon67@aol.com
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 00:17:05 EDT
Subject: Re: (no subject)
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In a message dated 8/22/2001 9:01:29 PM Pacific Daylight Time, 
Valheru89@aol.com writes:


> AOL. I already tried to get it to work but it does not include the previous 
> message 
> 
> 

You need to "highlight" the part you want to include or quote.  Then hit 
reply.  You should then see an email window with an irritating blue line 
along the left side of whatever you highlighted.
Once is gets to the list, the blue bar becomes black and it looks like what 
you see above.
Stupid AOL not longer has Internet style quoting >>.

You could practice by sending email back and forth to yourself.

Karl

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Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 00:36:00 EDT
Subject: question 
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*** EOOH ***
From: Valheru89@aol.com
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 00:36:00 EDT
Subject: question 
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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I was on a website and the guy who owns it said that he thought that Fantus 
was Macros but I don't know about that but it sounded like a good hypothisis 
so I was wondering if it was true.

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*** EOOH ***
From: Valheru89@aol.com
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 00:43:56 EDT
Subject: Re: (no subject)
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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In a message dated 8/22/2001 9:42:43 PM Pacific Daylight Time, 
KSimon67@aol.com writes:


> You need to "highlight" the part you want to include or quote.  Then hit 
> reply.  You should then see an email window with an irritating blue line 
> along the left side of whatever you highlighted. 
> Once is gets to the list, the blue bar becomes black and it looks like what 
> you see above. 
> Stupid AOL not longer has Internet style quoting >>. 
> 
> You could practice by sending email back and forth to yourself. 
> 
> Karl 
> 

I see thanks

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From: Allan Mills <milla@css.com.au>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" (FEISTFANS-L) <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: question 
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 14:49:20 +1000
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*** EOOH ***
From: Allan Mills <milla@css.com.au>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" (FEISTFANS-L) <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: question 
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 14:49:20 +1000
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

 He must have had one hell of an argument. Why would Macros be masquerading
as a firedrake ? It's pretty much impossible anyway. Fantus was still around
even on occasions where Macros was MIA.

 Allan

-----Original Message-----
>From: Valheru89@aol.com [mailto:Valheru89@aol.com]
>Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2001 2:36 PM
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: question 
>
>
>I was on a website and the guy who owns it said that he thought that Fantus 
>was Macros but I don't know about that but it sounded like a good hypothisis
>
>so I was wondering if it was true. 
>


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From: "C.T. Cusimano" <supert@redshift.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
References: <E3A4AA1DA7B41849A632450233B5423A177E8E@css01.css.com.au>
Subject: Re: question 
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*** EOOH ***
From: "C.T. Cusimano" <supert@redshift.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: question 
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 21:58:21 -0700
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

LOL
duh
when have you seen Macros and Fantus in the same room? 8?)
its whimsical dont get out the clan axes and go to war over it
----- Original Message -----
From: "Allan Mills" <milla@css.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2001 9:49 PM
Subject: RE: question


> He must have had one hell of an argument. Why would Macros be masquerading
> as a firedrake ? It's pretty much impossible anyway. Fantus was still around
> even on occasions where Macros was MIA.
>
>  Allan
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Valheru89@aol.com [mailto:Valheru89@aol.com]
> Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2001 2:36 PM
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Subject: question
>
>
> I was on a website and the guy who owns it said that he thought that Fantus
> was Macros but I don't know about that but it sounded like a good hypothisis
>
> so I was wondering if it was true.
>



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From: Allan Mills <milla@css.com.au>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" (FEISTFANS-L) <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: question 
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 15:03:30 +1000
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*** EOOH ***
From: Allan Mills <milla@css.com.au>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" (FEISTFANS-L) <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: question 
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 15:03:30 +1000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

 I don't have any axes out. I'm just amazed, I can't think of any reason at
all to entertain the notion that Macros = Fantus. I figure that the website
must have had a really good argument.

 Allan

> -----Original Message-----
> From: C.T. Cusimano [mailto:supert@redshift.com]
> Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2001 2:58 PM
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Subject: Re: question 
> 
> 
> LOL
> duh
> when have you seen Macros and Fantus in the same room? 8?)
> its whimsical dont get out the clan axes and go to war over it
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Allan Mills" <milla@css.com.au>
> To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2001 9:49 PM
> Subject: RE: question
> 
> 
> > He must have had one hell of an argument. Why would Macros 
> be masquerading
> > as a firedrake ? It's pretty much impossible anyway. Fantus 
> was still
> around
> > even on occasions where Macros was MIA.
> >
> >  Allan
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Valheru89@aol.com [mailto:Valheru89@aol.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2001 2:36 PM
> > To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > Subject: question
> >
> >
> > I was on a website and the guy who owns it said that he thought that
> Fantus
> > was Macros but I don't know about that but it sounded like a good
> hypothisis
> >
> > so I was wondering if it was true.
> >
> 
> 



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Subject: RE: question
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*** EOOH ***
From: Brad_A_Krahe@allegiance.com.au
X-Lotus-FromDomain: HCS
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 15:09:26 +1000
Subject: RE: question
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I would be nice to know the website Valheru89@aol.com ????

Anyway I thought that Nakor was Fantus :)

Regards,

Brad Krahe
SAP Business & Support Consultant
Allegiance Systems




Allan Mills <milla@css.com.au> on 23/08/2001 15:03:30
>
>Please respond to FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>
>To:   "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
>cc:    (bcc: Brad A Krahe/HCS)
>Subject:  RE: question
>
>
>
>
> I don't have any axes out. I'm just amazed, I can't think of any reason at
>all to entertain the notion that Macros = Fantus. I figure that the website
>must have had a really good argument.
>
> Allan
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: C.T. Cusimano [mailto:supert@redshift.com]
>> Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2001 2:58 PM
>> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>> Subject: Re: question
>>
>>
>> LOL
>> duh
>> when have you seen Macros and Fantus in the same room? 8?)
>> its whimsical dont get out the clan axes and go to war over it
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Allan Mills" <milla@css.com.au>
>> To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
>> Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2001 9:49 PM
>> Subject: RE: question
>>
>>
>> > He must have had one hell of an argument. Why would Macros
>> be masquerading
>> > as a firedrake ? It's pretty much impossible anyway. Fantus
>> was still
>> around
>> > even on occasions where Macros was MIA.
>> >
>> >  Allan
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: Valheru89@aol.com [mailto:Valheru89@aol.com]
>> > Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2001 2:36 PM
>> > To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>> > Subject: question
>> >
>> >
>> > I was on a website and the guy who owns it said that he thought that
>> Fantus
>> > was Macros but I don't know about that but it sounded like a good
>> hypothisis
>> >
>> > so I was wondering if it was true.

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*** EOOH ***
From: KSimon67@aol.com
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 01:53:42 EDT
Subject: Re: question 
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

In a message dated 8/22/2001 9:47:36 PM Pacific Daylight Time, 
Valheru89@aol.com writes:


> I was on a website and the guy who owns it said that he thought that Fantus 
> was Macros but I don't know about that but it sounded like a good 
> hypothisis 
> so I was wondering if it was true.

Wow.
Well look, what exactly was this hypothesis he came up with, I'm interested.

Of course you must remember the scene in Magician in which Kulgan see Fantus 
mating with another firedrake...   That would mean Macros was in to 
bestiality...

Karl

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From: "C.T. Cusimano" <supert@redshift.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
References: <CA256AB1.001C3E8A.00@mailgate.allegiance.com.au>
Subject: Re: question
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 22:53:03 -0700
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*** EOOH ***
From: "C.T. Cusimano" <supert@redshift.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: question
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 22:53:03 -0700
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

its the genealogy website in hawaii
the link is at crydee.com

----- Original Message -----
From: <Brad_A_Krahe@allegiance.com.au>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2001 10:09 PM
Subject: RE: question


> I would be nice to know the website Valheru89@aol.com ????
>
> Anyway I thought that Nakor was Fantus :)
>
> Regards,
>
> Brad Krahe
> SAP Business & Support Consultant
> Allegiance Systems
>
>
>
>
> Allan Mills <milla@css.com.au> on 23/08/2001 15:03:30
>
> Please respond to FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>
> To:   "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> cc:    (bcc: Brad A Krahe/HCS)
> Subject:  RE: question
>
>
>
>
>  I don't have any axes out. I'm just amazed, I can't think of any reason at
> all to entertain the notion that Macros = Fantus. I figure that the website
> must have had a really good argument.
>
>  Allan
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: C.T. Cusimano [mailto:supert@redshift.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2001 2:58 PM
> > To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > Subject: Re: question
> >
> >
> > LOL
> > duh
> > when have you seen Macros and Fantus in the same room? 8?)
> > its whimsical dont get out the clan axes and go to war over it
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Allan Mills" <milla@css.com.au>
> > To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> > Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2001 9:49 PM
> > Subject: RE: question
> >
> >
> > > He must have had one hell of an argument. Why would Macros
> > be masquerading
> > > as a firedrake ? It's pretty much impossible anyway. Fantus
> > was still
> > around
> > > even on occasions where Macros was MIA.
> > >
> > >  Allan
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Valheru89@aol.com [mailto:Valheru89@aol.com]
> > > Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2001 2:36 PM
> > > To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > > Subject: question
> > >
> > >
> > > I was on a website and the guy who owns it said that he thought that
> > Fantus
> > > was Macros but I don't know about that but it sounded like a good
> > hypothisis
> > >
> > > so I was wondering if it was true.
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>



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Subject: style changes
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*** EOOH ***
From: "C.T. Cusimano" <supert@redshift.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: style changes
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 22:59:53 -0700
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I just got done rereading the series from magician to shards this past
week (been real sick) and I think the biggest differences I have noted
are in the descriptions

I think that magician through silverthorn spent more time describing
the mundane things (the taste of a meal, the clothing etc.) while the
others concetrated more on the story and action.  any other opinions?

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Subject: RE: question 
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*** EOOH ***
From: Allan Mills <milla@css.com.au>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" (FEISTFANS-L) <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: question 
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 16:00:20 +1000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


-----Original Message-----
>From: KSimon67@aol.com [mailto:KSimon67@aol.com]
>Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2001 3:54 PM
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: Re: question 
>
>
>In a message dated 8/22/2001 9:47:36 PM Pacific Daylight Time, 
>Valheru89@aol.com writes: 
>>
>>I was on a website and the guy who owns it said that he thought that Fantus 
>>was Macros but I don't know about that but it sounded like a good 
>>hypothisis 
>>so I was wondering if it was true. 
>>
>
>Wow. 
>Well look, what exactly was this hypothesis he came up with, I'm interested.
>
>
>Of course you must remember the scene in Magician in which Kulgan see Fantus
>
>mating with another firedrake...   That would mean Macros was in to 
>bestiality... 
>
>Karl 
>

 Not to mention 

*SPOILERS*
*SPOILERS*
*SPOILERS*
*SPOILERS*

 Macros is prisoner in the garden while Fantus is still at Stardock. Fantus
is still around while Macros is trying to become the new god of magic.
Presumably (Ray ? ) Fantus is still alive despite Macros being dead.

 Allan



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Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 02:00:02 EDT
Subject: Father Winter
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*** EOOH ***
From: KSimon67@aol.com
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 02:00:02 EDT
Subject: Father Winter
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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Ray,

I really enjoyed HE.   I was unable to put the book down during the last 100 
pages or so.

I remember you had a character contest sometime ago, could be before ROADK, 
but wasn't Father Winter one of those characters that you had picked as a 
winner?
I especially remember the part about him being pulled by wolves.

Is this the first book you have used that character?

Thanks,

Karl

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*** EOOH ***
From: "Magnus Arvidsson" <magnus.arvidsson75@telia.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: (no subject)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 08:07:17 +0200
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ok, try this if AOL clients fail to do it on automatic.. Cut and paste
to new mail. Or copy and paste the relevant post into
your new mail. =)

Magnus
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: Valheru89@aol.com 
>To: FEISTFANS-L 
>Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2001 5:48 AM
>Subject: Re: (no subject)
>
>
>AOL. I already tried to get it to work but it does not include the previous 
>message 

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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 17:56:05 +1000
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Scott Nimmo <snimmo@connect.com.au>
Subject: Re: d20 gaming system
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Warning this reply is written by a listmember who is suffering from
a bad case of the flu and sleep deprivation. My apologies if I ramble. ;-)

At 03:19 AM 22/08/2001 , Earl wrote:
> > Immaterial, most purchases for roleplaying by gamers tends towards an
> > impulse buy.
>
>Good thing you're their market consultant, so you can give them the 
>statistics on impulse buyers.

Sorry Earl but I think any gaming publisher should be well aware of the impact of
impulse buys on their product sales, otherwise they will be out of business.
.
The majority of gaming books sell more in the first three months of release than for
the remaining life of the product. eg. The most successful book I co-authored was sold
out from the publisher in less than two months (which made it the most successful
splat book of it's product line), yet I still hear of stores with copies sitting on their
shelves two years later. You need to plan for a production number that will sell in
6 months, rather than two years. Otherwise you will be out of business fairly quickly.

If the rules-set is comfortable with enough gamers (we know the setting is), the
more likely sales will sustain at a level which it is still viable to produce more
copies of the rulebook and more supplements. 

"On the spot" decisions to buy gaming material is an important factor (otherwise
Synnibar would never had made a sale ;).

> > Impulse buys are more likely if the ruleset is familiar.

>Completely and totally material. I find it amazing that people can 
>have a discussion of the merits of d20 compared to Midkemia. You may 
>be an expert on d20 and everything ever associated with it, but 
>unless you were part of Ray and Steve's group, you know next to 
>nothing about their rules. This makes the entire discussion quite a 
>waste of time.

Wrong, you cannot discuss "the merits" of a setting VERSUS a rules-set.
To the public Midkemia is not a rules-set, it is a setting that has been brought
to life through Ray's novelisation of Midkemia's history.

With exception of D&D, gamers no longer tend towards buying 
games for the system, they buy it for the setting.
I have never heard someone say, gee I cannot wait for the next Storyteller
game system rehash, I hear about how the cannot wait to play Adventure! 
or Exalted.

Look at a snippet of a Wizards of the Coast survey (referenced at the bottom of this email):

 >Getting back to the people still playing the games, when asked what games TRPG players play monthly, the answers (multiple choices allowed) were: 
 >D&D: 66% 
 >Vampire: The Masquerade: 25% 
 >Star Wars: 21% 
 >Palladium: 16% 
 >Werewolf: The Apocalypse: 15% 
 >Shadowrun: 15% 
 >Star Trek: 12% 
 >Call of Cthulu: 8% 
 >Legend of the Five Rings: 8% 
 >Deadlands: 5% 
 >Alternity: 4% 
 >GURPS: 3% 

Only D&D, Palladium and GURPS is defined by System, all others are settings.
Star Wars (at this point) was d6.
Vamp and Werewolf are Storyteller and all others are unique systems.
These were as defined by the gamers, I think that is enough to see that the gamers
prefer to think by setting rather than system, since that is the trend of the marketing
of games. 

>Look, we simply don't have all the facts. We don't even have most of 
>the facts, or a significant percentage of the facts. We are all very 
>ignorant on at least half the relevant details for this discussion. 
>To me, that suggests that it's ridiculous to have the discussion in 
>the first place.

No, I am not ignorant of Midkemia in the novels.
No, I am not ignorant of the RPG industry.
Yes, I am ignorant of the Midkemia rules-set and the setting as in the ToM.

All I know is that Ray and Steve's system as it stands is a "realistic system" using
charts that takes in account the actual probability of a task to be performed rather than
some new funky method is add the variable by a new dice roll method.

I am not going to make any judgement on what I do not know, but I will use what
information I do know. Everything I am discussing over the use of system relates to
what I know and should not be applied to anything I do not. 
I will state what my understanding of the rules-set is so that if I am wrong it can be 
corrected and any conjecture based on that understanding can be considered 
immaterial.
What is wrong with that Earl?

ToM would sell no matter what rules-set is decided on, there will be the sales of "Wow,
I didn't know that was coming out, great I will pick it up" sales.
As the word gets out, the sales will depend more on the impressions of those who 
have played it and how much modification is required to make the rules-set something 
gamers are more comfortable with (is the work worth the gain).
The selected rules-set will affect the commercial viability of later supplements and ToM
as it ages in the marketplace..

Looking at the run down of the most popular games (those above 10%) as in that survey they go:
D&D : unrealistic but quick due to familiarity, low use of any tables (no system tables in 3rd Ed). 66%
Storyteller: more realistic damage system, but coarse probability, no tables. 25%
Starwars: ridiculously unrealistic (eg. the smarter you are the harder to learn more languages), fairly quick, list of standard Difficulties . 21%
Palladium: unable to judge never played 16%
Storyteller 15% (see above)
Shadowrun: 2nd Ed, slightly more realistic than Storyteller, but WAY slower (Storyteller was based on Shadowruns 1st ED d6 system, but increased probability by going d10) 15%
StarTrek: nifty idea for rolls but un intuitive, not very realistic but quick, list of standard Difficulties. 12%

There is a trend away from tables and simplifying rule-sets for speed and ease of use.
Even Storyteller has been simplified further in the past 12 months to increase speed of combat turns
and rules consistency (and was a very simple rule-set when introduced 10 years ago).

As Ray has stated the system was developed 20 years ago and by his opinion 
(which I do not doubt) that it was the best of its type when it was being used.
Meanwhile the industry has changed significantly in the past 10 years let alone 20.

Tables and "realistic" rule-set appear to have become unfashionable. Whether they are superior
is immaterial. The question is, are they marketable at this time? Is such a change the result of 
companies trying something else, or by customer demand.

>Someone else told me to lighten up. Good advice -- how about 
>lightening up on the 30+ messages in just 2 days? Isn't it a bit 
>presumptuous to tell Ray and Steve that you know how to handle their 
>"product" better than they do (when you're not even certain what it 
>is that they have)? Sit back, express your interest if you want, but 
>let them make their own decisions. It's going to be their money and 
>professional reputation on the line, not yours.

Earl, you still need to calm down. Until I am told by someone with authority to put a sock in it 
I will keep expressing my opinion as long as I think it is on topic. 
My opinion is that I would prefer a d20 version because I think it would be better in the long run,
whether any attention is paid to my preference I don't care greatly. I only hope the best for
any such project. I would buy such a book sight unseen (like any of Ray's work).

Personally I think this is stretching to off-topic and I will no longer continue this thread, I see little
to gain is arguing over what I can and cannot say on a mailing list.
Why don't we save any further "discussion" until this thread raises it ugly head again in the
possible near future. ;-)

For anyone who has bother to read through my dribble here,  I have a URL of some WotC 
market research on Tabletop Role-Playing Games.
http://www.thegpa.org/wotc_demo.shtml

regards,
Scott



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From: "Cameron Duncan" <cduncan@amadeus.com.au>
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Subject: RE: OT:Can anyone read me
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 18:01:06 +1000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Cameron Duncan" <cduncan@amadeus.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: OT:Can anyone read me
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 18:01:06 +1000
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Actually, I'm half way through it again for (about) the 12th time.
I felt like reading it again before I started in on Honoured Enemy......
(just to put me back into the Riftwar time-frame:) )

Cameron

>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Magnus Arvidsson
>Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2001 10:06
>To: FEISTFANS-L
>Subject: Re: OT:Can anyone read me
>
>
>Glad to hear that Ray! I was beginning to
>feel lonely. ;o) Oh, by the way, I just begun
>yet another re-reading of Magician. Ray, that
>paperback version is getting VERY worn now. I wonder
>if I'm a little slow witted since I keep returning
>to that particular novel time after time. Maybe
>there are others just like me? (I know there are, hehe)
>
>Anyway, thank you ray for yet another great novel!
>
>Magnus out..

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Subject: Re: Father Winter
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 02:03:05 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Father Winter
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On Wednesday, August 22, 2001, at 11:00 PM, KSimon67@aol.com wrote:

> Ray,
>
> I really enjoyed HE.   I was unable to put the book down during the 
> last 100
> pages or so.
>
> I remember you had a character contest sometime ago, could be before 
> ROADK,
> but wasn't Father Winter one of those characters that you had picked 
> as a
> winner?
> I especially remember the part about him being pulled by wolves.
>
> Is this the first book you have used that character?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Karl
>

No, the Father Winter character was used in another book, but I can't 
recall which.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.

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Subject: Re: Father Winter
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Magnus Arvidsson" <magnus.arvidsson75@telia.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Father Winter
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 13:00:27 +0200
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I believe it was in Faerietale. In one of the "doorways".
But I might, and heaven forfend <g>, be wrong..

Magnus out























>  No, the Father Winter character was used in another book, but I can't recall which.
>
>  Best, R.E.F.
>  ----
>
>  Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by stupidity.

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Subject: Re: Father Winter
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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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----- Original Message -----
From: Magnus Arvidsson
To: FEISTFANS-L
Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2001 9:00 PM
Subject: Re: Father Winter


>I believe it was in Faerietale. In one of the "doorways".
>But I might, and heaven forfend <g>, be wrong..
>
>Magnus out

Good grief, you have a good memory... But now that I think about it, I
remember one of the inhabitants of the doorways being an old man in the
winter. I'm not sure that it was Father Winter, though.

Cheers,
James























No, the Father Winter character was used in another book, but I can't recall
which.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
stupidity.



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From: "Firesight" <wolfriderfiresight@hotmail.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: d20 gaming system
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 08:33:26 -0300
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Hey Scott,

I agree with most of that.  Thanks for the supporting numbers.!

Personally, I beleive that if a game is advertised well, able to draw the
gamer into it's world (on first sight), then the system be darned.  It
sounds to be, that the widespread use of the D-20 system, is lazy
advertising practice, capitalizing on something that "everybody" is using.

Bah!

Scott, I don't think you rambled anymore than I ususally do, and I thought
you were quite coherent, the flu not withstanding. Heh heh.

I will no longer comment on my own projec,t as it is not roleplaying, and
thus it does not apply here.  It does use a bunch of tables, but only in the
beginnning; once the game heat up, and the data is on the unit sheets, there
is really only one table the players ever had to look to.

ANyway, less talk, so the Midkemia system can get out there faster!  I wanna
see what these folks have!  SOunds like it woudl be WAY too much fan!

Q: Mr Feist, if the Midkemia Atlas were to be produced, could we expect to
see it packaged with special packages of the Midkemia package (if that too
also came to pass)?  I know that's a lot of "what if," but an unjustified
"yes" woudl make me even more excited.

*-) Firesight *-)

----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Nimmo" <snimmo@connect.com.au>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2001 4:56 AM
Subject: Re: d20 gaming system


> Warning this reply is written by a listmember who is suffering from
> a bad case of the flu and sleep deprivation. My apologies if I ramble. ;-)
>
> At 03:19 AM 22/08/2001 , Earl wrote:
> > > Immaterial, most purchases for roleplaying by gamers tends towards an
> > > impulse buy.
> >
> >Good thing you're their market consultant, so you can give them the
> >statistics on impulse buyers.
>
> Sorry Earl but I think any gaming publisher should be well aware of the impact of
> impulse buys on their product sales, otherwise they will be out of business.
> .
> The majority of gaming books sell more in the first three months of release than for
> the remaining life of the product. eg. The most successful book I co-authored was sold
> out from the publisher in less than two months (which made it the most successful
> splat book of it's product line), yet I still hear of stores with copies sitting on their
> shelves two years later. You need to plan for a production number that will sell in
> 6 months, rather than two years. Otherwise you will be out of business fairly quickly.
>
> If the rules-set is comfortable with enough gamers (we know the setting is), the
> more likely sales will sustain at a level which it is still viable to produce more
> copies of the rulebook and more supplements.
>
> "On the spot" decisions to buy gaming material is an important factor (otherwise
> Synnibar would never had made a sale ;).
>
> > > Impulse buys are more likely if the ruleset is familiar.
>
> >Completely and totally material. I find it amazing that people can
> >have a discussion of the merits of d20 compared to Midkemia. You may
> >be an expert on d20 and everything ever associated with it, but
> >unless you were part of Ray and Steve's group, you know next to
> >nothing about their rules. This makes the entire discussion quite a
> >waste of time.
>
> Wrong, you cannot discuss "the merits" of a setting VERSUS a rules-set.
> To the public Midkemia is not a rules-set, it is a setting that has been brought
> to life through Ray's novelisation of Midkemia's history.
>
> With exception of D&D, gamers no longer tend towards buying
> games for the system, they buy it for the setting.
> I have never heard someone say, gee I cannot wait for the next Storyteller
> game system rehash, I hear about how the cannot wait to play Adventure!
> or Exalted.
>
> Look at a snippet of a Wizards of the Coast survey (referenced at the bottom of this email):
>
>  >Getting back to the people still playing the games, when asked what games TRPG players play monthly, the answers (multiple choices allowed) were:
>  >D&D: 66%
>  >Vampire: The Masquerade: 25%
>  >Star Wars: 21%
>  >Palladium: 16%
>  >Werewolf: The Apocalypse: 15%
>  >Shadowrun: 15%
>  >Star Trek: 12%
>  >Call of Cthulu: 8%
>  >Legend of the Five Rings: 8%
>  >Deadlands: 5%
>  >Alternity: 4%
>  >GURPS: 3%
>
> Only D&D, Palladium and GURPS is defined by System, all others are settings.
> Star Wars (at this point) was d6.
> Vamp and Werewolf are Storyteller and all others are unique systems.
> These were as defined by the gamers, I think that is enough to see that the gamers
> prefer to think by setting rather than system, since that is the trend of the marketing
> of games.
>
> >Look, we simply don't have all the facts. We don't even have most of
> >the facts, or a significant percentage of the facts. We are all very
> >ignorant on at least half the relevant details for this discussion.
> >To me, that suggests that it's ridiculous to have the discussion in
> >the first place.
>
> No, I am not ignorant of Midkemia in the novels.
> No, I am not ignorant of the RPG industry.
> Yes, I am ignorant of the Midkemia rules-set and the setting as in the ToM.
>
> All I know is that Ray and Steve's system as it stands is a "realistic system" using
> charts that takes in account the actual probability of a task to be performed rather than
> some new funky method is add the variable by a new dice roll method.
>
> I am not going to make any judgement on what I do not know, but I will use what
> information I do know. Everything I am discussing over the use of system relates to
> what I know and should not be applied to anything I do not.
> I will state what my understanding of the rules-set is so that if I am wrong it can be
> corrected and any conjecture based on that understanding can be considered
> immaterial.
> What is wrong with that Earl?
>
> ToM would sell no matter what rules-set is decided on, there will be the sales of "Wow,
> I didn't know that was coming out, great I will pick it up" sales.
> As the word gets out, the sales will depend more on the impressions of those who
> have played it and how much modification is required to make the rules-set something
> gamers are more comfortable with (is the work worth the gain).
> The selected rules-set will affect the commercial viability of later supplements and ToM
> as it ages in the marketplace..
>
> Looking at the run down of the most popular games (those above 10%) as in that survey they go:
> D&D : unrealistic but quick due to familiarity, low use of any tables (no system tables in 3rd Ed). 66%
> Storyteller: more realistic damage system, but coarse probability, no tables. 25%
> Starwars: ridiculously unrealistic (eg. the smarter you are the harder to learn more languages), fairly quick, list of standard Difficulties . 21%
> Palladium: unable to judge never played 16%
> Storyteller 15% (see above)
> Shadowrun: 2nd Ed, slightly more realistic than Storyteller, but WAY slower (Storyteller was based on Shadowruns 1st ED d6 system, but increased probability by going d10) 15%
> StarTrek: nifty idea for rolls but un intuitive, not very realistic but quick, list of standard Difficulties. 12%
>
> There is a trend away from tables and simplifying rule-sets for speed and ease of use.
> Even Storyteller has been simplified further in the past 12 months to increase speed of combat turns
> and rules consistency (and was a very simple rule-set when introduced 10 years ago).
>
> As Ray has stated the system was developed 20 years ago and by his opinion
> (which I do not doubt) that it was the best of its type when it was being used.
> Meanwhile the industry has changed significantly in the past 10 years let alone 20.
>
> Tables and "realistic" rule-set appear to have become unfashionable. Whether they are superior
> is immaterial. The question is, are they marketable at this time? Is such a change the result of
> companies trying something else, or by customer demand.
>
> >Someone else told me to lighten up. Good advice -- how about
> >lightening up on the 30+ messages in just 2 days? Isn't it a bit
> >presumptuous to tell Ray and Steve that you know how to handle their
> >"product" better than they do (when you're not even certain what it
> >is that they have)? Sit back, express your interest if you want, but
> >let them make their own decisions. It's going to be their money and
> >professional reputation on the line, not yours.
>
> Earl, you still need to calm down. Until I am told by someone with authority to put a sock in it
> I will keep expressing my opinion as long as I think it is on topic.
> My opinion is that I would prefer a d20 version because I think it would be better in the long run,
> whether any attention is paid to my preference I don't care greatly. I only hope the best for
> any such project. I would buy such a book sight unseen (like any of Ray's work).
>
> Personally I think this is stretching to off-topic and I will no longer continue this thread, I see little
> to gain is arguing over what I can and cannot say on a mailing list.
> Why don't we save any further "discussion" until this thread raises it ugly head again in the
> possible near future. ;-)
>
> For anyone who has bother to read through my dribble here,  I have a URL of some WotC
> market research on Tabletop Role-Playing Games.
> http://www.thegpa.org/wotc_demo.shtml
>
> regards,
> Scott
>
>



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From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re: d20 gaming system
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Subject: Re: d20 gaming system
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THREE CHEERS FOR SCOTT!

Very cogent argument, I couldn't have said it better myself, which is why I 
am so glad you did.

Adieu

Jimmy


>From: Scott Nimmo <snimmo@connect.com.au>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
>Subject: Re: d20 gaming system
>Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 17:56:05 +1000
>
>Warning this reply is written by a listmember who is suffering from
>a bad case of the flu and sleep deprivation. My apologies if I ramble. ;-)
>
>At 03:19 AM 22/08/2001 , Earl wrote:
> > > Immaterial, most purchases for roleplaying by gamers tends towards an
> > > impulse buy.
> >
> >Good thing you're their market consultant, so you can give them the
> >statistics on impulse buyers.
>
>Sorry Earl but I think any gaming publisher should be well aware of the 
>impact of
>impulse buys on their product sales, otherwise they will be out of 
>business.
>.
>The majority of gaming books sell more in the first three months of release 
>than for
>the remaining life of the product. eg. The most successful book I 
>co-authored was sold
>out from the publisher in less than two months (which made it the most 
>successful
>splat book of it's product line), yet I still hear of stores with copies 
>sitting on their
>shelves two years later. You need to plan for a production number that will 
>sell in
>6 months, rather than two years. Otherwise you will be out of business 
>fairly quickly.
>
>If the rules-set is comfortable with enough gamers (we know the setting 
>is), the
>more likely sales will sustain at a level which it is still viable to 
>produce more
>copies of the rulebook and more supplements.
>
>"On the spot" decisions to buy gaming material is an important factor 
>(otherwise
>Synnibar would never had made a sale ;).
>
> > > Impulse buys are more likely if the ruleset is familiar.
>
> >Completely and totally material. I find it amazing that people can
> >have a discussion of the merits of d20 compared to Midkemia. You may
> >be an expert on d20 and everything ever associated with it, but
> >unless you were part of Ray and Steve's group, you know next to
> >nothing about their rules. This makes the entire discussion quite a
> >waste of time.
>
>Wrong, you cannot discuss "the merits" of a setting VERSUS a rules-set.
>To the public Midkemia is not a rules-set, it is a setting that has been 
>brought
>to life through Ray's novelisation of Midkemia's history.
>
>With exception of D&D, gamers no longer tend towards buying
>games for the system, they buy it for the setting.
>I have never heard someone say, gee I cannot wait for the next Storyteller
>game system rehash, I hear about how the cannot wait to play Adventure!
>or Exalted.
>
>Look at a snippet of a Wizards of the Coast survey (referenced at the 
>bottom of this email):
>
>  >Getting back to the people still playing the games, when asked what 
>games TRPG players play monthly, the answers (multiple choices allowed) 
>were:
>  >D&D: 66%
>  >Vampire: The Masquerade: 25%
>  >Star Wars: 21%
>  >Palladium: 16%
>  >Werewolf: The Apocalypse: 15%
>  >Shadowrun: 15%
>  >Star Trek: 12%
>  >Call of Cthulu: 8%
>  >Legend of the Five Rings: 8%
>  >Deadlands: 5%
>  >Alternity: 4%
>  >GURPS: 3%
>
>Only D&D, Palladium and GURPS is defined by System, all others are 
>settings.
>Star Wars (at this point) was d6.
>Vamp and Werewolf are Storyteller and all others are unique systems.
>These were as defined by the gamers, I think that is enough to see that the 
>gamers
>prefer to think by setting rather than system, since that is the trend of 
>the marketing
>of games.
>
> >Look, we simply don't have all the facts. We don't even have most of
> >the facts, or a significant percentage of the facts. We are all very
> >ignorant on at least half the relevant details for this discussion.
> >To me, that suggests that it's ridiculous to have the discussion in
> >the first place.
>
>No, I am not ignorant of Midkemia in the novels.
>No, I am not ignorant of the RPG industry.
>Yes, I am ignorant of the Midkemia rules-set and the setting as in the ToM.
>
>All I know is that Ray and Steve's system as it stands is a "realistic 
>system" using
>charts that takes in account the actual probability of a task to be 
>performed rather than
>some new funky method is add the variable by a new dice roll method.
>
>I am not going to make any judgement on what I do not know, but I will use 
>what
>information I do know. Everything I am discussing over the use of system 
>relates to
>what I know and should not be applied to anything I do not.
>I will state what my understanding of the rules-set is so that if I am 
>wrong it can be
>corrected and any conjecture based on that understanding can be considered
>immaterial.
>What is wrong with that Earl?
>
>ToM would sell no matter what rules-set is decided on, there will be the 
>sales of "Wow,
>I didn't know that was coming out, great I will pick it up" sales.
>As the word gets out, the sales will depend more on the impressions of 
>those who
>have played it and how much modification is required to make the rules-set 
>something
>gamers are more comfortable with (is the work worth the gain).
>The selected rules-set will affect the commercial viability of later 
>supplements and ToM
>as it ages in the marketplace..
>
>Looking at the run down of the most popular games (those above 10%) as in 
>that survey they go:
>D&D : unrealistic but quick due to familiarity, low use of any tables (no 
>system tables in 3rd Ed). 66%
>Storyteller: more realistic damage system, but coarse probability, no 
>tables. 25%
>Starwars: ridiculously unrealistic (eg. the smarter you are the harder to 
>learn more languages), fairly quick, list of standard Difficulties . 21%
>Palladium: unable to judge never played 16%
>Storyteller 15% (see above)
>Shadowrun: 2nd Ed, slightly more realistic than Storyteller, but WAY slower 
>(Storyteller was based on Shadowruns 1st ED d6 system, but increased 
>probability by going d10) 15%
>StarTrek: nifty idea for rolls but un intuitive, not very realistic but 
>quick, list of standard Difficulties. 12%
>
>There is a trend away from tables and simplifying rule-sets for speed and 
>ease of use.
>Even Storyteller has been simplified further in the past 12 months to 
>increase speed of combat turns
>and rules consistency (and was a very simple rule-set when introduced 10 
>years ago).
>
>As Ray has stated the system was developed 20 years ago and by his opinion
>(which I do not doubt) that it was the best of its type when it was being 
>used.
>Meanwhile the industry has changed significantly in the past 10 years let 
>alone 20.
>
>Tables and "realistic" rule-set appear to have become unfashionable. 
>Whether they are superior
>is immaterial. The question is, are they marketable at this time? Is such a 
>change the result of
>companies trying something else, or by customer demand.
>
> >Someone else told me to lighten up. Good advice -- how about
> >lightening up on the 30+ messages in just 2 days? Isn't it a bit
> >presumptuous to tell Ray and Steve that you know how to handle their
> >"product" better than they do (when you're not even certain what it
> >is that they have)? Sit back, express your interest if you want, but
> >let them make their own decisions. It's going to be their money and
> >professional reputation on the line, not yours.
>
>Earl, you still need to calm down. Until I am told by someone with 
>authority to put a sock in it
>I will keep expressing my opinion as long as I think it is on topic.
>My opinion is that I would prefer a d20 version because I think it would be 
>better in the long run,
>whether any attention is paid to my preference I don't care greatly. I only 
>hope the best for
>any such project. I would buy such a book sight unseen (like any of Ray's 
>work).
>
>Personally I think this is stretching to off-topic and I will no longer 
>continue this thread, I see little
>to gain is arguing over what I can and cannot say on a mailing list.
>Why don't we save any further "discussion" until this thread raises it ugly 
>head again in the
>possible near future. ;-)
>
>For anyone who has bother to read through my dribble here,  I have a URL of 
>some WotC
>market research on Tabletop Role-Playing Games.
>http://www.thegpa.org/wotc_demo.shtml
>
>regards,
>Scott
>


_________________________________________________________________
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--

On Thu, 23 Aug 2001 00:36:00  
 Valheru89 wrote:
>I was on a website and the guy who owns it said that he thought that Fantus 
>was Macros but I don't know about that but it sounded like a good hypothisis 
>so I was wondering if it was true.
>


Lol! Macros= Fantus topic... nice one! :-)

Anyway, IIRC Williams was talking with Fantus, and he never even
mentioned some strange thoughts coming from that drake.

PJ



Get 250 color business cards for FREE!
http://businesscards.lycos.com/vp/fastpath/



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Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 11:05:35 EDT
Subject: Re: question
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From: Valheru89@aol.com
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 11:05:35 EDT
Subject: Re: question
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

 <A HREF="http://www2.hawaii.edu/~kageyama/feist">Midkemian Character Age Timeline</A> 

        Here's the website that says Fantus is macros you need to go to 
Search (on the side bar) and go to F and go to Fantus

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Subject: Re: question 
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*** EOOH ***
From: Valheru89@aol.com
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 11:06:55 EDT
Subject: Re: question 
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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In a message dated 8/22/2001 11:10:29 PM Pacific Daylight Time, 
KSimon67@aol.com writes:


> Of course you must remember the scene in Magician in which Kulgan see Fantus 
> mating with another firedrake...   That would mean Macros was in to 
> bestiality... 
> 
> 

That was good. Hey we all have to have fun sometimes. Back then you had to 
make it.

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From: "Donal K. Fellows" <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk>
To: Feist Fans <feistfans-l@cornell.edu>
Subject: REMINDER: *NO* HTML and only *relevant* quoting
Message-Id: <E15Zwa2-0001pd-00@athene>
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Donal K. Fellows" <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk>
To: Feist Fans <feistfans-l@cornell.edu>
Subject: REMINDER: *NO* HTML and only *relevant* quoting
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 16:39:38 +0100
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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The time has come (once again) to remind various list members that you
should not be posting HTML versions of your message to this list
(plain text only will do fine; there's very little worth saying that
can't be said in plain text) and that you should always include
relevant context (i.e. enough that we can understand what you are
talking about without having to look at our saved messages, but no
more since most of us have actually read the preceding messages.)
Consider it good-neighbourliness if you will.  <g>

Thank you for your time and consideration.

Donal (List Archivist)
-- 
Donal K. Fellows, Department of Computer Science, University of Manchester, UK.
(work) fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk     Tel: +44-161-275-6137  (preferred email addr.)
(home) donal@ugglan.demon.co.uk  Tel: +44-1274-401017   Mobile: +44-7957-298955
http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~fellowsd/  (Don't quote my .sig; I've seen it before!)



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References: <4b.103c2dcb.28b6760f@aol.com>
Subject: Re: question 
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: question 
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 10:47:08 -0500
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Back then?  How do you know that we are not prior to the Midkemia
timeline.  Remember comments about other planets are not always in
the same time frame as the others except where they are connected
via the hall of worlds.  Besides it mentions that humans were one of
the races that turned its attention to fleeing.  Do you have
evidence that says that we are not those and REF isn't just a
brilliant seer?

O~O
  <
____
     I_I

-James

P.S. I'm back from Canada.

>> Of course you must remember the scene in Magician in which Kulgan
>> see Fantus mating with another firedrake...   That would mean Macros
>> was in to bestiality...
>
>
> That was good. Hey we all have to have fun sometimes. Back then you
> had to make it.
>



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Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 13:27:55 EDT
Subject: Re: question 
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*** EOOH ***
From: Valheru89@aol.com
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 13:27:55 EDT
Subject: Re: question 
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

In a message dated 8/23/2001 8:53:57 AM Pacific Daylight Time, 
jajy@earthlink.net writes:


> Back then?  How do you know that we are not prior to the Midkemia
> 

Oh yea thats true welll let me refrase On medkimia they had to make there own 
fun.

             Chance

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*** EOOH ***
From: "Earl Borah" <earl@ncn.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 11:20:30 -0700
Subject: Re: REMINDER: *NO* HTML and only *relevant* quoting
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Priority: normal
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

> The time has come (once again) to remind various list members that you
> should not be posting HTML versions of your message to this list
> (plain text only will do fine; there's very little worth saying that

Not everyone who sends HTML messages know they are sending it, so let 
me add one note.

If you use AOL, or you use Outlook/Outlook Express, then you *ARE* 
sending HTML messages unless you have specifically gone into your 
setup and changed the options. Not to name names, but there are a 
couple AOL users and an Outlook Express user who have recently been 
sending a lot of HTML messages to the list.

If you use AOL or Outlook Express and you're not sure what we're 
talking about, then we're probably talking about you!

If you have questions about what an HTML email is and how to send 
normal (Plain Text) emails instead, you can post a question to the 
list or to someone directly (I can probably help with Outlook/Outlook 
Express, though I'm not so sure about AOL). You can also check the 
list archives -- this came up about a month ago, as I recall, and 
some detailed directions were posted at that time.

---
  "All men are moral. Only their neighbors are not."
  - character from a John Steinbeck novel (I forget which character/novel)



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Message-ID: <12f.37e44cb.28b6a71f@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 14:36:15 EDT
Subject: Re: REMINDER: *NO* HTML and only *relevant* quoting
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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*** EOOH ***
From: Valheru89@aol.com
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 14:36:15 EDT
Subject: Re: REMINDER: *NO* HTML and only *relevant* quoting
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

hey have I sent alot of HTML messages    

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From: "Magnus Arvidsson" <magnus.arvidsson75@telia.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
References: <3B84E6FE.1552.7AC659@localhost>
Subject: Re: REMINDER: *NO* HTML and only *relevant* quoting
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 21:01:50 +0200
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Magnus Arvidsson" <magnus.arvidsson75@telia.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: REMINDER: *NO* HTML and only *relevant* quoting
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 21:01:50 +0200
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I confess to having used HTML format. In my defense
I must say that I had already checked the Plain/Rich Text box,
but forgotten to choose Uuencode. It was set on MIME. I guess
that explains it.

Sorry for the recent Attack from Planet HTML.

Magnus out

> > The time has come (once again) to remind various list members that you
> > should not be posting HTML versions of your message to this list
> > (plain text only will do fine; there's very little worth saying that
>
> Not everyone who sends HTML messages know they are sending it, so let
> me add one note.
>
> If you use AOL, or you use Outlook/Outlook Express, then you *ARE*
> sending HTML messages unless you have specifically gone into your
> setup and changed the options. Not to name names, but there are a
> couple AOL users and an Outlook Express user who have recently been
> sending a lot of HTML messages to the list.
>
> If you use AOL or Outlook Express and you're not sure what we're
> talking about, then we're probably talking about you!
>
> If you have questions about what an HTML email is and how to send
> normal (Plain Text) emails instead, you can post a question to the
> list or to someone directly (I can probably help with Outlook/Outlook
> Express, though I'm not so sure about AOL). You can also check the
> list archives -- this came up about a month ago, as I recall, and
> some detailed directions were posted at that time.
>
> ---
>   "All men are moral. Only their neighbors are not."
>   - character from a John Steinbeck novel (I forget which character/novel)
>



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From: "Michael Gibson" <gibbyfish@yahoo.com>
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Subject: RE: REMINDER: *NO* HTML and only *relevant* quoting
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 20:18:33 +0100
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*** EOOH ***
X-Apparently-From: <gibbyfish@yahoo.com>
From: "Michael Gibson" <gibbyfish@yahoo.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: REMINDER: *NO* HTML and only *relevant* quoting
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 20:18:33 +0100
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

> hey have I sent alot of HTML messages

Indeed ;).  I don't know how to change this on AOL, but have a fiddle around,
and see if you can change the settings.  Failing that, email AOL's support
department.  Failing that, set up an account with yahoo/hotmail/whoever, which
you can use offline if you like (I certainly prefer this method).

Mike,
Gibfish of the West.
                                          Check out my forums at:
"If a problem appears simple, then it     http://www.tonrae.co.uk/forums/
probably hasn't been thought through."


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com



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From: "Darren McClung" <d@dwmc.org>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
References: <12f.37e44cb.28b6a71f@aol.com>
Subject: Re: REMINDER: *NO* HTML and only *relevant* quoting
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 16:29:18 -0500
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Darren McClung" <d@dwmc.org>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: REMINDER: *NO* HTML and only *relevant* quoting
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 16:29:18 -0500
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

>hey have I sent alot of HTML messages
>

Irony.  That message WAS an HTML message.

Check your settings in AOL.  I've never used it (and never will) but they
have to include an option somewhere.  It will say something to the effect of
Send in Plain Text or something like that.

Honestly though, you're paying 24.95 a month for an ISP with ads.  Look in
the yellow pages under Internet Service Provider, I guarantee you'll be able
to find a local provider that can do it cheaper, and faster.

Darren



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From: kuros@pgtv.net (kuros)
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Esperanto Translations of Mr. Fiest's Works
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 16:39:37 -0700
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*** EOOH ***
From: kuros@pgtv.net (kuros)
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Esperanto Translations of Mr. Fiest's Works
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 16:39:37 -0700
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Just out of curiosity, are there any esperanto translations of Mr. Fiest's
work? I am learning the language, and would prefer some fantasy work to read
in the language, instead of the standard mystery and such. If there isn't a
translation, does anybody know of any fantasy books that are in Esperanto?

Thanks,
Kuros

"Once is coincidence, twice is happenstance, three times is enemy
action." -James Bond Movie

P.S. Does anybody on this list speak esperanto? I am trying to find somebody
to correspond with, but its harder than one would think.



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*** EOOH ***
From: Valheru89@aol.com
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 18:00:43 EDT
Subject: Re: REMINDER: *NO* HTML and only *relevant* quoting
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

In a message dated 8/23/2001 12:23:30 PM Pacific Daylight Time, 
gibbyfish@yahoo.com writes:


> Indeed ;).  I don't know how to change this on AOL, but have a fiddle around,
> and see if you can change the settings.  Failing that, email AOL's support
> department.  Failing that, set up an account with yahoo/hotmail/whoever, 
> which
> you can use offline if you like (I certainly prefer this method).
> 
> Mike,
> 

so How many have I sent?

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*** EOOH ***
From: Valheru89@aol.com
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 18:02:30 EDT
Subject: Re: REMINDER: *NO* HTML and only *relevant* quoting
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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In a message dated 8/23/2001 2:37:39 PM Pacific Daylight Time, d@dwmc.org 
writes:


> 

No I am paying nothing I get Free CD's for a month of aol so when my month is 
up I put in a new CD. Please don't tell. actually I haven't changed it yet I 
better stop by circet city. LOL

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Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 08:23:34 +1000 (GMT+1000)
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From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: question 
In-Reply-To: <4b.103c2dcb.28b6760f@aol.com>
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Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 08:23:34 +1000 (GMT+1000)
From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: question 
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> > Of course you must remember the scene in Magician in which Kulgan see Fantus
> > mating with another firedrake...   That would mean Macros was in to
> > bestiality...
> That was good. Hey we all have to have fun sometimes. Back then you had to
> make it.

Geez, in Midkemian then they must have strange ideas of "fun"

Is it your theory that having intercourse with firedrakes is preferable to
women? (There is women in Midkemia, if you hadn't noticed)

:)

Thanks
Darragh
-=-=
www.iamtheporkfireman.com
[Email]: s356179@student.uq.edu.au [ICQ]: 114283262



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From: Valheru89@aol.com
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 18:29:34 EDT
Subject: Re: question 
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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In a message dated 8/23/2001 3:28:48 PM Pacific Daylight Time, 
s356179@student.uq.edu.au writes:


> Geez, in Midkemian then they must have strange ideas of "fun"
> 
> Is it your theory that having intercourse with firedrakes is preferable to
> women? (There is women in Midkemia, if you hadn't noticed)
> 
> 

Hey maybe Macros just wanted to try summin diffrent

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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Larry Siegel <larry@psihawk.com>
Subject: Re: Esperanto Translations of Mr. Fiest's Works
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Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 18:31:57 -0400
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Larry Siegel <larry@psihawk.com>
Subject: Re: Esperanto Translations of Mr. Fiest's Works
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Took it in college... couldn't speak it now if you begged :p

still have the books though....

--
Larry (PsiHawk)
--
PsiHawk's Home Page
     http://www.psihawk.com
--
Raymond E Feist FAQ Page
     http://www.psihawk.com/feist



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Subject: Re: Esperanto Translations of Mr. Fiest's Works
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From: "C.T. Cusimano" <supert@redshift.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Esperanto Translations of Mr. Fiest's Works
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 14:55:50 -0700
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I'd guess its rather hard
I bet their are more ppl fluent in klingon than esperanto hehe 8?)
----- Original Message -----
From: "kuros" <kuros@pgtv.net>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2001 4:39 PM
Subject: Esperanto Translations of Mr. Fiest's Works


> Just out of curiosity, are there any esperanto translations of Mr. Fiest's
> work? I am learning the language, and would prefer some fantasy work to read
> in the language, instead of the standard mystery and such. If there isn't a
> translation, does anybody know of any fantasy books that are in Esperanto?
>
> Thanks,
> Kuros
>
> "Once is coincidence, twice is happenstance, three times is enemy
> action." -James Bond Movie
>
> P.S. Does anybody on this list speak esperanto? I am trying to find somebody
> to correspond with, but its harder than one would think.
>



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Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 16:11:58 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Esperanto Translations of Mr. Fiest's Works
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Thursday, August 23, 2001, at 04:39 PM, kuros wrote:

> Just out of curiosity, are there any esperanto translations of Mr. 
> Fiest's
> work? I am learning the language, and would prefer some fantasy work to 
> read
> in the language, instead of the standard mystery and such. If there 
> isn't a
> translation, does anybody know of any fantasy books that are in 
> Esperanto?


No, and there likely never will be, as there's a limited population.  
Seventeen different languages, but no Esperanto.

And it's spelled "Feist."

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
From: "Magnus Arvidsson" <magnus.arvidsson75@telia.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: question 
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 00:43:28 +0200
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

A disturbing thought... But no universe is free from deviant
behaviour. <g> Although I would not put Macros down as
one bent that particular way. Maybe Sidi. But I don't care
for the thought that Sidi is Fantus and vice versa. Bad topic.
Let's kill it.

Magnus out
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: Valheru89@aol.com 
>To: FEISTFANS-L 
>Sent: Friday, August 24, 2001 12:29 AM
>Subject: Re: question 
>
>
>In a message dated 8/23/2001 3:28:48 PM Pacific Daylight Time, 
>s356179@student.uq.edu.au writes: 
>
>
>
>  Geez, in Midkemian then they must have strange ideas of "fun" 
>
>  Is it your theory that having intercourse with firedrakes is preferable to 
>  women? (There is women in Midkemia, if you hadn't noticed) 
>
>
>
>
>Hey maybe Macros just wanted to try summin diffrent 

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Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 08:12:03 +1000 (GMT+1000)
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From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" (FEISTFANS-L) <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: question 
In-Reply-To: <E3A4AA1DA7B41849A632450233B5423A177E8F@css01.css.com.au>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 08:12:03 +1000 (GMT+1000)
From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" (FEISTFANS-L) <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: question 
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Its like saying....

The horse that fell on Ayaki was actually Macros, setting in motion the
events that lead to Kevin's son becoming the emporer of the Tsurani.


>  I don't have any axes out. I'm just amazed, I can't think of any reason at
> all to entertain the notion that Macros = Fantus. I figure that the website
> must have had a really good argument.
>
>  Allan
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: C.T. Cusimano [mailto:supert@redshift.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2001 2:58 PM
> > To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > Subject: Re: question
> >
> >
> > LOL
> > duh
> > when have you seen Macros and Fantus in the same room? 8?)
> > its whimsical dont get out the clan axes and go to war over it
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Allan Mills" <milla@css.com.au>
> > To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> > Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2001 9:49 PM
> > Subject: RE: question
> >
> >
> > > He must have had one hell of an argument. Why would Macros
> > be masquerading
> > > as a firedrake ? It's pretty much impossible anyway. Fantus
> > was still
> > around
> > > even on occasions where Macros was MIA.
> > >
> > >  Allan
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Valheru89@aol.com [mailto:Valheru89@aol.com]
> > > Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2001 2:36 PM
> > > To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > > Subject: question
> > >
> > >
> > > I was on a website and the guy who owns it said that he thought that
> > Fantus
> > > was Macros but I don't know about that but it sounded like a good
> > hypothisis
> > >
> > > so I was wondering if it was true.
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

Thanks
Darragh
-=-=
www.iamtheporkfireman.com
[Email]: s356179@student.uq.edu.au [ICQ]: 114283262



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From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
References: <200108232311.f7NNBmR21786@smtp1.san.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Esperanto Translations of Mr. Feist's Works (going OT)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 19:19:38 -0500
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Esperanto Translations of Mr. Feist's Works (going OT)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 19:19:38 -0500
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

    The thing is that most languages in the world are in danger of
becoming extinct (i.e. dead).  There are somewhere in the
neighborhood of 6800 languages spoken around the world still, with
over 1000 expected to become extinct in the next several decades.
The probability is that perhaps a few hundred will survive the next
two centuries if trends continue.  I believe (though I would have to
look it up again) that Esperanto may be one of the ones projected to
not last the 200 years, though the majority will be lost in regions
like the Amazon, Papa New Guinea, and other places where there are
large numbers of local dialects, being replaced by a single dominant
societal language.

> No, and there likely never will be, as there's a limited population.
> Seventeen different languages, but no Esperanto.



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From: "Magnus Arvidsson" <magnus.arvidsson75@telia.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
References: <Pine.OSF.4.30.0108240810510.23744-100000@student.uq.edu.au>
Subject: WARNING Re: question MAJOR SPOILER IN POST!!
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 02:33:55 +0200
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Magnus Arvidsson" <magnus.arvidsson75@telia.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: WARNING Re: question MAJOR SPOILER IN POST!!
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 02:33:55 +0200
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Darragh, please... use spoiler warnings
when giving away important and revealing
facts about the novels. This spoiler is a HUGe one.

SPOILER SPACE (which was missing in Darraghs post)
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*

> Its like saying....
>
> The horse that fell on Ayaki was actually Macros, setting in motion the
> events that lead to Kevin's son becoming the emporer of the Tsurani.
>
>
> >  I don't have any axes out. I'm just amazed, I can't think of any reason at
> > all to entertain the notion that Macros = Fantus. I figure that the website
> > must have had a really good argument.
> >
> >  Allan
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: C.T. Cusimano [mailto:supert@redshift.com]
> > > Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2001 2:58 PM
> > > To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > > Subject: Re: question
> > >
> > >
> > > LOL
> > > duh
> > > when have you seen Macros and Fantus in the same room? 8?)
> > > its whimsical dont get out the clan axes and go to war over it
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Allan Mills" <milla@css.com.au>
> > > To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> > > Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2001 9:49 PM
> > > Subject: RE: question
> > >
> > >
> > > > He must have had one hell of an argument. Why would Macros
> > > be masquerading
> > > > as a firedrake ? It's pretty much impossible anyway. Fantus
> > > was still
> > > around
> > > > even on occasions where Macros was MIA.
> > > >
> > > >  Allan
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Valheru89@aol.com [mailto:Valheru89@aol.com]
> > > > Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2001 2:36 PM
> > > > To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > > > Subject: question
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I was on a website and the guy who owns it said that he thought that
> > > Fantus
> > > > was Macros but I don't know about that but it sounded like a good
> > > hypothisis
> > > >
> > > > so I was wondering if it was true.
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
> Thanks
> Darragh
> -=-=
> www.iamtheporkfireman.com
> [Email]: s356179@student.uq.edu.au [ICQ]: 114283262
>



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Subject: Re: Esperanto Translations of Mr. Feist's Works (going OT)
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 17:37:22 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Esperanto Translations of Mr. Feist's Works (going OT)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Thursday, August 23, 2001, at 05:19 PM, James Young wrote:

>     The thing is that most languages in the world are in danger of
> becoming extinct (i.e. dead).  There are somewhere in the
> neighborhood of 6800 languages spoken around the world still, with
> over 1000 expected to become extinct in the next several decades.
> The probability is that perhaps a few hundred will survive the next
> two centuries if trends continue.  I believe (though I would have to
> look it up again) that Esperanto may be one of the ones projected to
> not last the 200 years, though the majority will be lost in regions
> like the Amazon, Papa New Guinea, and other places where there are
> large numbers of local dialects, being replaced by a single dominant
> societal language.

Esperanto is an artificial language, not the only one, but the one that 
was the most successful.  It's basically a hobby for people who like 
that sort of thing, similar to folks who learn Klingon.

It will take more than 200 years for all languages but English to 
wither; we will probably have several centuries of folks speaking two 
languages, English for international information, and the local tongue.  
But the "local" can be over a billion people if it's Cantonese.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Subject: Re: Father Winter
References: <200108230902.f7N92sj24730@smtp2.san.rr.com> <002901c12bc2$d16e4880$ad5541d5@telia.com> <001a01c1136a$16533ee0$eba70ccb@heechee>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 18:17:24 -0700
From: Carl Dershem <dershem@home.com>
Organization: Project Selene
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Father Winter
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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James Barker wrote:
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Magnus Arvidsson
> To: FEISTFANS-L
> Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2001 9:00 PM
> Subject: Re: Father Winter
> 
> <<I believe it was in Faerietale. In one of the "doorways".
> But I might, and heaven forfend <g>, be wrong..
> 
> Magnus out>>
> 
> Good grief, you have a good memory... But now that I think about it, I
> remember one of the inhabitants of the doorways being an old man in the
> winter. I'm not sure that it was Father Winter, though.
> 
> Cheers,
> James
> 
> No, the Father Winter character was used in another book, but I can't recall
> which.
> 
> Best, R.E.F.

Ray wrote "Faerie Tale" (which is not a Midkemia book anyway) long
before I developed Father Winter.  I remember seeing him, but can't
recall where - I can't even get to that bookcase since my last roomie
moved out and left a few boxes of her stuff in the den.

cd



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Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 20:58:34 -0500
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 20:58:34 -0500
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: WARNING Re: question MAJOR SPOILER IN POST!!
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Magnus Arvidsson wrote:
> 
> Darragh, please... use spoiler warnings
> when giving away important and revealing
> facts about the novels. This spoiler is a HUGe one.

No kidding, particularly since I just started reading Mistress *sigh*
Cover art aside, I suppose I can just skip the next 700 pages then, eh?
:P

Craig J. Ries



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From: "Magnus Arvidsson" <magnus.arvidsson75@telia.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
References: <200108230902.f7N92sj24730@smtp2.san.rr.com> <002901c12bc2$d16e4880$ad5541d5@telia.com> <001a01c1136a$16533ee0$eba70ccb@heechee> <3B85AB24.DAEBAF24@home.com>
Subject: Re: Father Winter
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 03:59:48 +0200
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Magnus Arvidsson" <magnus.arvidsson75@telia.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Father Winter
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 03:59:48 +0200
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I just leafed through my copy pf Faerie Tale
and I didn't find Father Winter. I might have missed
him somewhere in the text but hey! I might have been
wrong when I said that he was in FT.

Magnus out

> >
> > <<I believe it was in Faerietale. In one of the "doorways".
> > But I might, and heaven forfend <g>, be wrong..
> >
> > Magnus out>>
> >
> > Good grief, you have a good memory... But now that I think about it, I
> > remember one of the inhabitants of the doorways being an old man in the
> > winter. I'm not sure that it was Father Winter, though.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > James
> >
> > No, the Father Winter character was used in another book, but I can't recall
> > which.
> >
> > Best, R.E.F.
>
> Ray wrote "Faerie Tale" (which is not a Midkemia book anyway) long
> before I developed Father Winter.  I remember seeing him, but can't
> recall where - I can't even get to that bookcase since my last roomie
> moved out and left a few boxes of her stuff in the den.
>
> cd
>



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*** EOOH ***
From: "Magnus Arvidsson" <magnus.arvidsson75@telia.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Was: WARNING Re: question MAJOR SPOILER IN POST!!
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 04:06:12 +0200
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Im sorry that you had to read what Darragh wrote
but Mistress of the Empire is a great read anyway!
Read it and give your thought about it and I'll give mine. =)
But remember the Spolier space... =)

Magnus out

> Magnus Arvidsson wrote:
> >
> > Darragh, please... use spoiler warnings
> > when giving away important and revealing
> > facts about the novels. This spoiler is a HUGe one.
>
> No kidding, particularly since I just started reading Mistress *sigh*
> Cover art aside, I suppose I can just skip the next 700 pages then, eh?
> :P
>
> Craig J. Ries
>



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 20:05:17 -0600
From: Ben Nagy <bnagy@powersurfr.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Father Winter
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I knew it was in here, Just had to find it. I didn't even remember it
until you mentioned it.

It's in 'The Wood Boy' in "Legends" when the boy is describing the
winter festival being a pale shadow of the previous ones because of the
war. 

Page 612, Old Man Winter, but he only gets a paragraph. 

Cheers,

Benjamin Nagy
Technical Analyst/Network Consultant
Matrikon Inc.


Raymond Feist wrote:
> 
> On Wednesday, August 22, 2001, at 11:00 PM, KSimon67@aol.com wrote:
> 
>      Ray,
> 
>      I really enjoyed HE.   I was unable to put the book down during the last 100
>      pages or so.
> 
>      I remember you had a character contest sometime ago, could be before ROADK,
>      but wasn't Father Winter one of those characters that you had picked as a
>      winner?
>      I especially remember the part about him being pulled by wolves.
> 
>      Is this the first book you have used that character?
> 
>      Thanks,
> 
>      Karl
> 
> No, the Father Winter character was used in another book, but I can't recall which.
> 
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
> 
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by stupidity.



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Subject: Re: Esperanto Translations of Mr. Feist's Works (going OT)
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*** EOOH ***
From: kuros@pgtv.net (kuros)
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Esperanto Translations of Mr. Feist's Works (going OT)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 21:13:23 -0700
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Sorry, I should have mentioned that it was an artificial language. I took it
up because I wanted to learn another language, and this is a very easy one
to learn (but is by no means limited, it is just as versatile as any
national langauge), before I took on other languages currently residing on
my hit list.

Mr. Fiest, would you have any objections to me working on translating your
books into esperanto (when I learn it well enough, of course)? I wouldn't
want any compensation, monetary or otherwise, for it, as it'd be more in the
nature of my practicing. I'd just type it up in some word processing
program.

Thanks,
Kuros

"I'd rather kiss a wookie!" -Princess Leia
----- Original Message -----
From: "Raymond Feist" <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2001 5:37 PM
Subject: Re: Esperanto Translations of Mr. Feist's Works (going OT)


>
> On Thursday, August 23, 2001, at 05:19 PM, James Young wrote:
>
> >     The thing is that most languages in the world are in danger of
> > becoming extinct (i.e. dead).  There are somewhere in the
> > neighborhood of 6800 languages spoken around the world still, with
> > over 1000 expected to become extinct in the next several decades.
> > The probability is that perhaps a few hundred will survive the next
> > two centuries if trends continue.  I believe (though I would have to
> > look it up again) that Esperanto may be one of the ones projected to
> > not last the 200 years, though the majority will be lost in regions
> > like the Amazon, Papa New Guinea, and other places where there are
> > large numbers of local dialects, being replaced by a single dominant
> > societal language.
>
> Esperanto is an artificial language, not the only one, but the one that
> was the most successful.  It's basically a hobby for people who like
> that sort of thing, similar to folks who learn Klingon.
>
> It will take more than 200 years for all languages but English to
> wither; we will probably have several centuries of folks speaking two
> languages, English for international information, and the local tongue.
> But the "local" can be over a billion people if it's Cantonese.
>
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
>
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
> stupidity.
>
>



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Subject: Re: Esperanto Translations of Mr. Feist's Works (going OT)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 21:16:34 -0700
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*** EOOH ***
From: kuros@pgtv.net (kuros)
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Esperanto Translations of Mr. Feist's Works (going OT)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 21:16:34 -0700
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Ack, sorry about the name misspelling. Not a very good first impression, is
it? <goes and hides under a rock> Most humble apologies.

Sorry,
Kuros

"What is inconceivable about the universe is that it is at all
conceivable" - Albert Einstein
----- Original Message -----
From: "Raymond Feist" <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2001 5:37 PM
Subject: Re: Esperanto Translations of Mr. Feist's Works (going OT)


>
> On Thursday, August 23, 2001, at 05:19 PM, James Young wrote:
>
> >     The thing is that most languages in the world are in danger of
> > becoming extinct (i.e. dead).  There are somewhere in the
> > neighborhood of 6800 languages spoken around the world still, with
> > over 1000 expected to become extinct in the next several decades.
> > The probability is that perhaps a few hundred will survive the next
> > two centuries if trends continue.  I believe (though I would have to
> > look it up again) that Esperanto may be one of the ones projected to
> > not last the 200 years, though the majority will be lost in regions
> > like the Amazon, Papa New Guinea, and other places where there are
> > large numbers of local dialects, being replaced by a single dominant
> > societal language.
>
> Esperanto is an artificial language, not the only one, but the one that
> was the most successful.  It's basically a hobby for people who like
> that sort of thing, similar to folks who learn Klingon.
>
> It will take more than 200 years for all languages but English to
> wither; we will probably have several centuries of folks speaking two
> languages, English for international information, and the local tongue.
> But the "local" can be over a billion people if it's Cantonese.
>
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
>
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
> stupidity.
>
>



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From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 14:28:20 +1000 (GMT+1000)
From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: WARNING Re: question MAJOR SPOILER IN POST!!
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SORRY.

I apologise, I totally forgot.

*cringes*

*slaps head once again* I'm doing this too often, my head is beginning to
hurt.

> Darragh, please... use spoiler warnings
> when giving away important and revealing
> facts about the novels. This spoiler is a HUGe one.
>
> SPOILER SPACE (which was missing in Darraghs post)
> *
> *
> *
> *
> *
> *
> *
> *
> *
> *
> *
> *
> *
> *
> *
> *
> *
> *
> *
> *
>
> > Its like saying....
> >
> > The horse that fell on Ayaki was actually Macros, setting in motion the
> > events that lead to Kevin's son becoming the emporer of the Tsurani.
> >
> >
> > >  I don't have any axes out. I'm just amazed, I can't think of any reason
> at
> > > all to entertain the notion that Macros = Fantus. I figure that the
> website
> > > must have had a really good argument.
> > >
> > >  Allan
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: C.T. Cusimano [mailto:supert@redshift.com]
> > > > Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2001 2:58 PM
> > > > To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > > > Subject: Re: question
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > LOL
> > > > duh
> > > > when have you seen Macros and Fantus in the same room? 8?)
> > > > its whimsical dont get out the clan axes and go to war over it
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Allan Mills" <milla@css.com.au>
> > > > To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2001 9:49 PM
> > > > Subject: RE: question
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > He must have had one hell of an argument. Why would Macros
> > > > be masquerading
> > > > > as a firedrake ? It's pretty much impossible anyway. Fantus
> > > > was still
> > > > around
> > > > > even on occasions where Macros was MIA.
> > > > >
> > > > >  Allan
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: Valheru89@aol.com [mailto:Valheru89@aol.com]
> > > > > Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2001 2:36 PM
> > > > > To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > > > > Subject: question
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I was on a website and the guy who owns it said that he thought that
> > > > Fantus
> > > > > was Macros but I don't know about that but it sounded like a good
> > > > hypothisis
> > > > >
> > > > > so I was wondering if it was true.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Thanks
> > Darragh
> > -=-=
> > www.iamtheporkfireman.com
> > [Email]: s356179@student.uq.edu.au [ICQ]: 114283262
> >
>
>

Thanks
Darragh
-=-=
www.iamtheporkfireman.com
[Email]: s356179@student.uq.edu.au [ICQ]: 114283262



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 00:39:05 -0500
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Esperanto Translations of Mr. Feist's Works (going OT)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

kuros wrote:
> 
> Sorry, I should have mentioned that it was an artificial language. I took it
> up because I wanted to learn another language, and this is a very easy one
> to learn (but is by no means limited, it is just as versatile as any
> national langauge), before I took on other languages currently residing on
> my hit list.

Ever watch Red Dwarf? One of the characters, Rimmer, tries to learn
Esperanto during the first season... been trying to learn it for like
years and still couldn't get it :)

Craig J. Ries



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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Barker" <heechee@softhome.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Esperanto Translations of Mr. Feist's Works (going OT)
Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 16:47:22 +1000
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----- Original Message ----- 
From: Craig J. Ries <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Friday, August 24, 2001 3:39 PM
Subject: Re: Esperanto Translations of Mr. Feist's Works (going OT)

> Ever watch Red Dwarf? One of the characters, Rimmer, tries to learn
> Esperanto during the first season... been trying to learn it for like
> years and still couldn't get it :)

"A frog, sir? In which bidet?"

Cheers,
James



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Yeah tell me about it!!! I'm half way through mistress of the empire and 
didn't know what happened at the end!!! :( I read the little message before 
I knew what it was saying! :(

It's ok Darragh, I may forgive you in time. :)

Natalie


>From: "Magnus Arvidsson" <magnus.arvidsson75@telia.com>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
>Subject: WARNING Re: question MAJOR SPOILER IN POST!!
>Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 02:33:55 +0200
>
>Darragh, please... use spoiler warnings
>when giving away important and revealing
>facts about the novels. This spoiler is a HUGe one.
>
>SPOILER SPACE (which was missing in Darraghs post)
>*
>*
>*
>*
>*
>*
>*
>*
>*
>*
>*
>*
>*
>*
>*
>*
>*
>*
>*
>*
>
> > Its like saying....
> >
> > The horse that fell on Ayaki was actually Macros, setting in motion the
> > events that lead to Kevin's son becoming the emporer of the Tsurani.
> >
> >
> > >  I don't have any axes out. I'm just amazed, I can't think of any 
>reason
>at
> > > all to entertain the notion that Macros = Fantus. I figure that the
>website
> > > must have had a really good argument.
> > >
> > >  Allan
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: C.T. Cusimano [mailto:supert@redshift.com]
> > > > Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2001 2:58 PM
> > > > To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > > > Subject: Re: question
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > LOL
> > > > duh
> > > > when have you seen Macros and Fantus in the same room? 8?)
> > > > its whimsical dont get out the clan axes and go to war over it
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Allan Mills" <milla@css.com.au>
> > > > To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2001 9:49 PM
> > > > Subject: RE: question
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > He must have had one hell of an argument. Why would Macros
> > > > be masquerading
> > > > > as a firedrake ? It's pretty much impossible anyway. Fantus
> > > > was still
> > > > around
> > > > > even on occasions where Macros was MIA.
> > > > >
> > > > >  Allan
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: Valheru89@aol.com [mailto:Valheru89@aol.com]
> > > > > Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2001 2:36 PM
> > > > > To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > > > > Subject: question
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I was on a website and the guy who owns it said that he thought 
>that
> > > > Fantus
> > > > > was Macros but I don't know about that but it sounded like a good
> > > > hypothisis
> > > > >
> > > > > so I was wondering if it was true.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Thanks
> > Darragh
> > -=-=
> > www.iamtheporkfireman.com
> > [Email]: s356179@student.uq.edu.au [ICQ]: 114283262
> >
>


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp



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Mail-from: From owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu Fri Aug 24 09:39:35 2001
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From: "Michael Gibson" <gibbyfish@yahoo.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: REMINDER: *NO* HTML and only *relevant* quoting
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 09:38:20 +0100
Message-ID: <NGELLDNAEMBGGGHFAJPBCEOMCHAA.gibbyfish@yahoo.com>
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*** EOOH ***
X-Apparently-From: <gibbyfish@yahoo.com>
From: "Michael Gibson" <gibbyfish@yahoo.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: REMINDER: *NO* HTML and only *relevant* quoting
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 09:38:20 +0100
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

> > Indeed ;).  I don't know how to change this on AOL, but have a
> fiddle around,
> > and see if you can change the settings.  Failing that, email AOL's support
> > department.  Failing that, set up an account with yahoo/hotmail/whoever,
> > which you can use offline if you like (I certainly prefer this method).
> >
> > Mike,
>
> so How many have I sent?

That would be just about every post you've made.  I'm also trailing AOL at the
moment, but I use yahoo mail, so I don't have to piss around with their (AOL's)
proprietary crap.  I just use an email client configured with their (yahoo's)
pop/smtp servers.

Mike,
Gibfish of the West.
                                          Check out my forums at:
"If a problem appears simple, then it     http://www.tonrae.co.uk/forums/
probably hasn't been thought through."


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com



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Mail-from: From owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu Fri Aug 24 10:42:34 2001
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From: "Selina Takerei" <buny@optushome.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
References: <F10JHlYRVWlzHjRY5bO00017b54@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: WARNING Re: question MAJOR SPOILER IN POST!!
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 19:46:37 +1000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Selina Takerei" <buny@optushome.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: WARNING Re: question MAJOR SPOILER IN POST!!
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 19:46:37 +1000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

as annoyying as it is when people give bits away...... tell me it could
possibly ruin one of Ray's books ?!?!?!

i had one guy tell me the story of Mistress from cover to cover as hee knew
i was about to start reading it, and although i wasnt surprised by
much...... it was still one of the best books i have ever read !!!!

thank god Ray is so damn talented !!!!

Sel.


----- Original Message -----
From: Natalie Henderson <natz101@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Friday, August 24, 2001 6:21 PM
Subject: Re: WARNING Re: question MAJOR SPOILER IN POST!!


> Yeah tell me about it!!! I'm half way through mistress of the empire and
> didn't know what happened at the end!!! :( I read the little message before
> I knew what it was saying! :(
>
> It's ok Darragh, I may forgive you in time. :)
>
> Natalie
>
>
> >From: "Magnus Arvidsson" <magnus.arvidsson75@telia.com>
> >Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> >To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
> >Subject: WARNING Re: question MAJOR SPOILER IN POST!!
> >Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 02:33:55 +0200
> >
> >Darragh, please... use spoiler warnings
> >when giving away important and revealing
> >facts about the novels. This spoiler is a HUGe one.
> >
> >SPOILER SPACE (which was missing in Darraghs post)
> >*
> >*
> >*
> >*
> >*
> >*
> >*
> >*
> >*
> >*
> >*
> >*
> >*
> >*
> >*
> >*
> >*
> >*
> >*
> >*
> >
> > > Its like saying....
> > >
> > > The horse that fell on Ayaki was actually Macros, setting in motion the
> > > events that lead to Kevin's son becoming the emporer of the Tsurani.
> > >
> > >
> > > >  I don't have any axes out. I'm just amazed, I can't think of any
> >reason
> >at
> > > > all to entertain the notion that Macros = Fantus. I figure that the
> >website
> > > > must have had a really good argument.
> > > >
> > > >  Allan
> > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: C.T. Cusimano [mailto:supert@redshift.com]
> > > > > Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2001 2:58 PM
> > > > > To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > > > > Subject: Re: question
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > LOL
> > > > > duh
> > > > > when have you seen Macros and Fantus in the same room? 8?)
> > > > > its whimsical dont get out the clan axes and go to war over it
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: "Allan Mills" <milla@css.com.au>
> > > > > To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> > > > > Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2001 9:49 PM
> > > > > Subject: RE: question
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > He must have had one hell of an argument. Why would Macros
> > > > > be masquerading
> > > > > > as a firedrake ? It's pretty much impossible anyway. Fantus
> > > > > was still
> > > > > around
> > > > > > even on occasions where Macros was MIA.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >  Allan
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > From: Valheru89@aol.com [mailto:Valheru89@aol.com]
> > > > > > Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2001 2:36 PM
> > > > > > To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > > > > > Subject: question
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I was on a website and the guy who owns it said that he thought
> >that
> > > > > Fantus
> > > > > > was Macros but I don't know about that but it sounded like a good
> > > > > hypothisis
> > > > > >
> > > > > > so I was wondering if it was true.
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > > Darragh
> > > -=-=
> > > www.iamtheporkfireman.com
> > > [Email]: s356179@student.uq.edu.au [ICQ]: 114283262
> > >
> >
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>



1,,
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Mail-from: From owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu Fri Aug 24 11:30:18 2001
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From: "Natalie Henderson" <natz101@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: WARNING Re: question MAJOR SPOILER IN POST!!
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 10:27:20 +0000
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*** EOOH ***
X-Originating-IP: [194.6.79.172]
From: "Natalie Henderson" <natz101@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: WARNING Re: question MAJOR SPOILER IN POST!!
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 10:27:20 +0000
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 24 Aug 2001 10:27:21.0191 (UTC) FILETIME=[5B96EF70:01C12C87]
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

It won't ruin it! :)

If that were the case I would be a bit more upset but as the whole story 
about how it all happens is still there for me to read, I don't mind too 
much.

If I didn't think like that I wouldn't be able to read Rays books as many 
times as I do which would certainly be a travesty!!! :):)

Natalie


>From: "Selina Takerei" <buny@optushome.com.au>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
>Subject: Re: WARNING Re: question MAJOR SPOILER IN POST!!
>Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 19:46:37 +1000
>
>as annoyying as it is when people give bits away...... tell me it could
>possibly ruin one of Ray's books ?!?!?!
>
>i had one guy tell me the story of Mistress from cover to cover as hee knew
>i was about to start reading it, and although i wasnt surprised by
>much...... it was still one of the best books i have ever read !!!!
>
>thank god Ray is so damn talented !!!!
>
>Sel.
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Natalie Henderson <natz101@hotmail.com>
>To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
>Sent: Friday, August 24, 2001 6:21 PM
>Subject: Re: WARNING Re: question MAJOR SPOILER IN POST!!
>
>
> > Yeah tell me about it!!! I'm half way through mistress of the empire and
> > didn't know what happened at the end!!! :( I read the little message
>before
> > I knew what it was saying! :(
> >
> > It's ok Darragh, I may forgive you in time. :)
> >
> > Natalie
> >
> >
> > >From: "Magnus Arvidsson" <magnus.arvidsson75@telia.com>
> > >Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > >To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
> > >Subject: WARNING Re: question MAJOR SPOILER IN POST!!
> > >Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 02:33:55 +0200
> > >
> > >Darragh, please... use spoiler warnings
> > >when giving away important and revealing
> > >facts about the novels. This spoiler is a HUGe one.
> > >
> > >SPOILER SPACE (which was missing in Darraghs post)
> > >*
> > >*
> > >*
> > >*
> > >*
> > >*
> > >*
> > >*
> > >*
> > >*
> > >*
> > >*
> > >*
> > >*
> > >*
> > >*
> > >*
> > >*
> > >*
> > >*
> > >
> > > > Its like saying....
> > > >
> > > > The horse that fell on Ayaki was actually Macros, setting in motion
>the
> > > > events that lead to Kevin's son becoming the emporer of the Tsurani.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >  I don't have any axes out. I'm just amazed, I can't think of any
> > >reason
> > >at
> > > > > all to entertain the notion that Macros = Fantus. I figure that 
>the
> > >website
> > > > > must have had a really good argument.
> > > > >
> > > > >  Allan
> > > > >
> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > From: C.T. Cusimano [mailto:supert@redshift.com]
> > > > > > Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2001 2:58 PM
> > > > > > To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > > > > > Subject: Re: question
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > LOL
> > > > > > duh
> > > > > > when have you seen Macros and Fantus in the same room? 8?)
> > > > > > its whimsical dont get out the clan axes and go to war over it
> > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > From: "Allan Mills" <milla@css.com.au>
> > > > > > To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2001 9:49 PM
> > > > > > Subject: RE: question
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > He must have had one hell of an argument. Why would Macros
> > > > > > be masquerading
> > > > > > > as a firedrake ? It's pretty much impossible anyway. Fantus
> > > > > > was still
> > > > > > around
> > > > > > > even on occasions where Macros was MIA.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >  Allan
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > > From: Valheru89@aol.com [mailto:Valheru89@aol.com]
> > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2001 2:36 PM
> > > > > > > To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > > > > > > Subject: question
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I was on a website and the guy who owns it said that he 
>thought
> > >that
> > > > > > Fantus
> > > > > > > was Macros but I don't know about that but it sounded like a
>good
> > > > > > hypothisis
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > so I was wondering if it was true.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > Thanks
> > > > Darragh
> > > > -=-=
> > > > www.iamtheporkfireman.com
> > > > [Email]: s356179@student.uq.edu.au [ICQ]: 114283262
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at 
>http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
> >
>


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 08:44:37 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Esperanto Translations of Mr. Feist's Works (going OT)
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On Thursday, August 23, 2001, at 09:13 PM, kuros wrote:

> Sorry, I should have mentioned that it was an artificial language. I 
> took it
> up because I wanted to learn another language, and this is a very easy 
> one
> to learn (but is by no means limited, it is just as versatile as any
> national langauge), before I took on other languages currently residing 
> on
> my hit list.
>
> Mr. Fiest, would you have any objections to me working on translating 
> your
> books into esperanto (when I learn it well enough, of course)? I 
> wouldn't
> want any compensation, monetary or otherwise, for it, as it'd be more 
> in the
> nature of my practicing. I'd just type it up in some word processing
> program.


If you want to translate it for your own amusement, fine, but I can't 
permit you to pass it around to other readers.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Subject: Re: REMINDER: *NO* HTML and only *relevant* quoting
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Jeffrey Flower" <chronos@teamut.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: REMINDER: *NO* HTML and only *relevant* quoting
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 02:01:25 -0500
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Yeah, SO WHAT.....I use HTML alot between all of my friends.  we like
to send funk messages to each other with really ugly colours.  Just
something to pass the time.  All in all it isn't really a big deal and
surely not worth the time we have all spent on this thread.  more
often than not, if you reply to an HTML message it stays in HTML, but
if you just take a moment to start a new thread, then it switches back
to plain text, unless of course it is coded to be HTML first- or only,
in the case of AOL (may they rot in H$%^).

What it comes down to is that we are all on this list to talk about
some of our favorite books.  So instead of petty bickering about HTML
postings, how about each of you tell me your favorite scene from a
particular book and we can compare happy memories.


Ray, I just ordered HE from the UK and it should be here in a few
days.  I will give it the rave review I know it will deserve when I
get done reading it.


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Michael Gibson" <gibbyfish@yahoo.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Friday, August 24, 2001 3:38 AM
Subject: RE: REMINDER: *NO* HTML and only *relevant* quoting


> > > Indeed ;).  I don't know how to change this on AOL, but have a
> > fiddle around,
> > > and see if you can change the settings.  Failing that, email AOL's support
> > > department.  Failing that, set up an account with yahoo/hotmail/whoever,
> > > which you can use offline if you like (I certainly prefer this method).
> > >
> > > Mike,
> >
> > so How many have I sent?
> 
> That would be just about every post you've made.  I'm also trailing AOL at the
> moment, but I use yahoo mail, so I don't have to piss around with their (AOL's)
> proprietary crap.  I just use an email client configured with their (yahoo's)
> pop/smtp servers.
> 
> Mike,
> Gibfish of the West.
>                                           Check out my forums at:
> "If a problem appears simple, then it     http://www.tonrae.co.uk/forums/
> probably hasn't been thought through."
> 
> 
> _________________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
> 
> 
> 

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*** EOOH ***
From: "Earl Borah" <earl@ncn.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 12:17:12 -0700
Subject: Re: REMINDER: *NO* HTML and only *relevant* quoting
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>Yeah, SO WHAT.....I use HTML alot between all of my friends. we like 


So what? Well, for one thing, it's a rule of the list. If you're 
going to post on the list, you should observe the rules. Ignoring 
them once you've been notified of them is extremely rude.

There are a variety of reasons -- the most obvious one is that not 
everyone uses Microsoft products as their email client. For those 
users (and I'm one of them), HTML-formatted email is ugly at best, 
and illegible at worst. Add in the fact that it makes each message at 
least slightly longer than it would be if it were plain text (and the 
fact that in some parts of the world it's still common to pay 
connection fees based on time online or by the amount downloaded), 
and you're adding a needless expense to some readers.

Do whatever you want when you email your friends, but please don't 
post HTML-based messages here.



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From: "C.T. Cusimano" <supert@redshift.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: re: Jeffrey Flower favorite scene
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 13:17:32 -0700
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Myt favorite scene uis Tomas balanced on the edge of madness chopping off
tsurani heads.  A very powerful scene maybe the most powerful in the books
only rivaled by Pug in the colliseum.

BTW Does TOmas hold himself back or does he like slicing enemies up?  WHy
doesnt he ever squish them with his mind like he did to the rock in
silverthorn?



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*** EOOH ***
From: "Jeffrey Flower" <chronos@teamut.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Jeffrey Flower favorite scene
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 03:48:14 -0500
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Along with the Coliseum, I love the part Where Thomas fights the Dread and
it rips his arm off (supposedly) and then once he finds out what he needs
you see a glimpse of the True Thomas as he releases the illusion and roasts
the Dread.

Honestly and truthfully though, probably one of my favorite parts in the
whole entire series is when Jimmy is swimming in the morning and he comes
upon Gamina and she blasts his mind.  Then when he comes out of the stupor,
Ray's description of the quick and simple bond of love between them is very
powerful.  I am a sucker for love at first site.  Jimmy up until that time
was such an "individual" character, that held strong feelings for so few
people, that once he met Gamina, I felt that Ray could broaden Jimmy's
horizons and show the possibilities that he had.  Jimmy is by far one of the
most complex characters I have read about in a lot of fantasy books, and I
love the intricacy in which he handled him.

Jeffrey Flower

It takes 45 muscles in your face to frown, but only 4 muscles in your arm to
reach back and slap the hell out of someone
----- Original Message -----
From: "C.T. Cusimano" <supert@redshift.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Friday, August 24, 2001 3:17 PM
Subject: re: Jeffrey Flower favorite scene


> Myt favorite scene uis Tomas balanced on the edge of madness chopping off
> tsurani heads.  A very powerful scene maybe the most powerful in the books
> only rivaled by Pug in the colliseum.
>
> BTW Does TOmas hold himself back or does he like slicing enemies up?  WHy
> doesnt he ever squish them with his mind like he did to the rock in
> silverthorn?
>
>
>



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References: <001401c12cd9$cee00dc0$480ce4d8@redshift.com> <000d01c12c79$87809360$3490180a@chronos>
Subject: Re: Jeffrey Flower favorite scene
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 14:11:25 -0700
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*** EOOH ***
From: "C.T. Cusimano" <supert@redshift.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Jeffrey Flower favorite scene
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 14:11:25 -0700
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yeha
Jimmy has become the star of the series I suppose
what do u think of his grandsons Dashel and Jiimy
they gonna be as big character wise in the future?
sad what happened to Jimmys son Arutha too.
did the jimy the hand have any more children or jsut the one
seems like nobles in the kingdoms have a surprising taklent of not being
fecund
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeffrey Flower" <chronos@teamut.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Friday, August 24, 2001 1:48 AM
Subject: Re: Jeffrey Flower favorite scene


> Along with the Coliseum, I love the part Where Thomas fights the Dread and
> it rips his arm off (supposedly) and then once he finds out what he needs
> you see a glimpse of the True Thomas as he releases the illusion and roasts
> the Dread.
>
> Honestly and truthfully though, probably one of my favorite parts in the
> whole entire series is when Jimmy is swimming in the morning and he comes
> upon Gamina and she blasts his mind.  Then when he comes out of the stupor,
> Ray's description of the quick and simple bond of love between them is very
> powerful.  I am a sucker for love at first site.  Jimmy up until that time
> was such an "individual" character, that held strong feelings for so few
> people, that once he met Gamina, I felt that Ray could broaden Jimmy's
> horizons and show the possibilities that he had.  Jimmy is by far one of the
> most complex characters I have read about in a lot of fantasy books, and I
> love the intricacy in which he handled him.
>
> Jeffrey Flower
>
> It takes 45 muscles in your face to frown, but only 4 muscles in your arm to
> reach back and slap the hell out of someone
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "C.T. Cusimano" <supert@redshift.com>
> To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> Sent: Friday, August 24, 2001 3:17 PM
> Subject: re: Jeffrey Flower favorite scene
>
>
> > Myt favorite scene uis Tomas balanced on the edge of madness chopping off
> > tsurani heads.  A very powerful scene maybe the most powerful in the books
> > only rivaled by Pug in the colliseum.
> >
> > BTW Does TOmas hold himself back or does he like slicing enemies up? WHy
> > doesnt he ever squish them with his mind like he did to the rock in
> > silverthorn?
> >
> >
> >
>



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Subject: Re: Esperanto Translations of Mr. Feist's Works (going OT)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 18:28:48 -0700
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*** EOOH ***
From: kuros@pgtv.net (kuros)
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Esperanto Translations of Mr. Feist's Works (going OT)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 18:28:48 -0700
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Nifty, thanks. Sorry if I've said/done something offensive, I just thought
that it would be polite to ask before I did anything.

Thanks,
Kuros

"There is no such thing as a simple problem. If it was simple, it wouldn't
be a problem." -Unknown
----- Original Message -----
From: "Raymond Feist" <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Friday, August 24, 2001 8:44 AM
Subject: Re: Esperanto Translations of Mr. Feist's Works (going OT)


>
> On Thursday, August 23, 2001, at 09:13 PM, kuros wrote:
>
> > Sorry, I should have mentioned that it was an artificial language. I
> > took it
> > up because I wanted to learn another language, and this is a very easy
> > one
> > to learn (but is by no means limited, it is just as versatile as any
> > national langauge), before I took on other languages currently residing
> > on
> > my hit list.
> >
> > Mr. Fiest, would you have any objections to me working on translating
> > your
> > books into esperanto (when I learn it well enough, of course)? I
> > wouldn't
> > want any compensation, monetary or otherwise, for it, as it'd be more
> > in the
> > nature of my practicing. I'd just type it up in some word processing
> > program.
>
>
> If you want to translate it for your own amusement, fine, but I can't
> permit you to pass it around to other readers.
>
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
>
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
> stupidity.
>
>



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Subject: Re: REMINDER: *NO* HTML and only *relevant* quoting
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 18:34:42 -0700
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*** EOOH ***
From: kuros@pgtv.net (kuros)
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: REMINDER: *NO* HTML and only *relevant* quoting
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 18:34:42 -0700
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Speaking for myself, HTML email irritates me. I don't like having to
try to decipher the words in a message that has the Color Scheme From
Hell. I much prefer black and white. I would guess that other people
on this list feel the same way.

Also, as Mr. Borah pointed out, it is against the rules. 

Kuros
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: Jeffrey Flower 
>To: FEISTFANS-L 
>Sent: Friday, August 24, 2001 12:01 AM
>Subject: Re: REMINDER: *NO* HTML and only *relevant* quoting
>
>
>Yeah, SO WHAT.....I use HTML alot between all of my friends.  we like to send funk messages to each other with really ugly colours.  Just something to pass the time.  All in all it isn't really a big deal and surely not worth the time we have all spent on this thread.  more often than not, if you reply to an HTML message it stays in HTML, but if you just take a moment to start a new thread, then it switches back to plain text, unless of course it is coded to be HTML first- or only, in the case of AOL (may they rot in H$%^).
>
>What it comes down to is that we are all on this list to talk about some of our favorite books.  So instead of petty bickering about HTML postings, how about each of you tell me your favorite scene from a particular book and we can compare happy memories.
>
>
>Ray, I just ordered HE from the UK and it should be here in a few days.  I will give it the rave review I know it will deserve when I get done reading it.
>
>
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: "Michael Gibson" <gibbyfish@yahoo.com>
>To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
>Sent: Friday, August 24, 2001 3:38 AM
>Subject: RE: REMINDER: *NO* HTML and only *relevant* quoting
>
>
>> > > Indeed ;).  I don't know how to change this on AOL, but have a
>> > fiddle around,
>> > > and see if you can change the settings.  Failing that, email AOL's support
>> > > department.  Failing that, set up an account with yahoo/hotmail/whoever,
>> > > which you can use offline if you like (I certainly prefer this method).
>> > >
>> > > Mike,
>> >
>> > so How many have I sent?
>> 
>> That would be just about every post you've made.  I'm also trailing AOL at the
>> moment, but I use yahoo mail, so I don't have to piss around with their (AOL's)
>> proprietary crap.  I just use an email client configured with their (yahoo's)
>> pop/smtp servers.
>> 
>> Mike,
>> Gibfish of the West.
>>                                           Check out my forums at:
>> "If a problem appears simple, then it     http://www.tonrae.co.uk/forums/
>> probably hasn't been thought through."
>> 
>> 
>> _________________________________________________________
>> Do You Yahoo!?
>> Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
>> 
>> 
>> 

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Subject: Re: Jeffrey Flower favorite scene
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From: "Julie Wootten" <wootten@xtra.co.nz>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Jeffrey Flower favorite scene
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 13:11:00 +1200
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IIRC, at the stage when Tomas was slicing and dicing Tsurani, he
hadn't come into his full power.  He mentions this in a later book,
I think possibly to Martin.

Julie.

----- Original Message -----
From: C.T. Cusimano <supert@redshift.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2001 8:17 AM
Subject: re: Jeffrey Flower favorite scene


> Myt favorite scene uis Tomas balanced on the edge of madness chopping off
> tsurani heads.  A very powerful scene maybe the most powerful in the books
> only rivaled by Pug in the colliseum.
>
> BTW Does TOmas hold himself back or does he like slicing enemies up?  WHy
> doesnt he ever squish them with his mind like he did to the rock in
> silverthorn?
>



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Subject: Re: Jeffrey Flower favorite scene
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*** EOOH ***
From: "C.T. Cusimano" <supert@redshift.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Jeffrey Flower favorite scene
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 19:31:28 -0700
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I was speaking even into shards of a broken crown he never seems to use his
full powers...
----- Original Message -----
From: "Julie Wootten" <wootten@xtra.co.nz>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Friday, August 24, 2001 6:11 PM
Subject: Re: Jeffrey Flower favorite scene


> IIRC, at the stage when Tomas was slicing and dicing Tsurani, he
> hadn't come into his full power.  He mentions this in a later book,
> I think possibly to Martin.
>
> Julie.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: C.T. Cusimano <supert@redshift.com>
> To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2001 8:17 AM
> Subject: re: Jeffrey Flower favorite scene
>
>
> > Myt favorite scene uis Tomas balanced on the edge of madness chopping off
> > tsurani heads.  A very powerful scene maybe the most powerful in the books
> > only rivaled by Pug in the colliseum.
> >
> > BTW Does TOmas hold himself back or does he like slicing enemies up? WHy
> > doesnt he ever squish them with his mind like he did to the rock in
> > silverthorn?
> >
>



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Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 23:05:42 EDT
Subject: Re: Jeffrey Flower favorite scene
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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*** EOOH ***
From: Valheru89@aol.com
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 23:05:42 EDT
Subject: Re: Jeffrey Flower favorite scene
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

In a message dated 8/24/2001 1:50:39 PM Pacific Daylight Time, 
chronos@teamut.com writes:


> Honestly and truthfully though, probably one of my favorite parts in the
> whole entire series is when Jimmy is swimming in the morning and he comes
> upon Gamina and she blasts his mind.  Then when he comes out of the stupor,
> Ray's description of the quick and simple bond of love between them is very
> powerful.  I am a sucker for love at first site.  Jimmy up until that time
> was such an "individual" character, that held strong feelings for so few
> people, that once he met Gamina, I felt that Ray could broaden Jimmy's
> horizons and show the possibilities that he had.  Jimmy is by far one of the
> most complex characters I have read about in a lot of fantasy books, and I
> love the intricacy in which he handled him.
> 

Dude I am not that far I am only on KtB  We went over put a spoiler. yea but 
my favorite is almost every part with tomas as a valheru.

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Subject: Re: Jeffrey Flower favorite scene
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Barker" <heechee@softhome.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Jeffrey Flower favorite scene
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 16:52:07 +1000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


----- Original Message -----
From: Valheru89@aol.com
To: FEISTFANS-L
Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2001 1:05 PM
Subject: Re: Jeffrey Flower favorite scene

*snip various HTML*

Jeez, come on. You've been asked I forget how many times to stop sending
HTML emails, and given a wide range of possible ways to get around AOL. Yet
you still persist. On behalf of all the people on the list who can see (and
don't like) all the messy HTML formatting around your text when you send
mail to the list, please send as plain text!

Cheers,
James



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From: "Daniel Thoroughgood" <dthoroug@bigpond.net.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
References: <NGELLDNAEMBGGGHFAJPBCEOMCHAA.gibbyfish@yahoo.com> <001a01c12c6a$98f5ddd0$3490180a@chronos> <007101c12d06$31be66e0$0100a8c0@dragon>
Subject: Re: REMINDER: *NO* HTML and only *relevant* quoting
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 17:49:03 +1000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Daniel Thoroughgood" <dthoroug@bigpond.net.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: REMINDER: *NO* HTML and only *relevant* quoting
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 17:49:03 +1000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Interesting that you replied in HTML :)

You may want to have a look at your options, you appear to be using Outlook
Express.
Click Tools and then Options
Select the Send tab and remove the tick from Reply to messages using the
format in which they were sent.

Regards,
Daniel

----- Original Message -----
>From: "kuros" <kuros@pgtv.net>
>To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
>Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2001 11:34 AM
>Subject: Re: REMINDER: *NO* HTML and only *relevant* quoting
>
>
>Speaking for myself, HTML email irritates me. I don't like having to try to
>decipher the words in a message that has the Color Scheme From Hell. I much
>prefer black and white. I would guess that other people on this list feel
>the same way.
>
>Also, as Mr. Borah pointed out, it is against the rules.
>
>Kuros
>


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From: "Chad" <feistfan@chadkeffer.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
References: <NGELLDNAEMBGGGHFAJPBCEOMCHAA.gibbyfish@yahoo.com> <001a01c12c6a$98f5ddd0$3490180a@chronos> <007101c12d06$31be66e0$0100a8c0@dragon> <002001c12d3a$6972aa40$a75b2dcb@nakor>
Subject: Re: REMINDER: *NO* HTML and only *relevant* quoting
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 03:19:05 -0500
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Chad" <feistfan@chadkeffer.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: REMINDER: *NO* HTML and only *relevant* quoting
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 03:19:05 -0500
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Plain Text is easier to read and not all email clients support HTML
(or Rich Text) email.  However, the way media moves, I suppose it's
just a matter of time until email is HTML by default instead of plain
text.

We do some email broadcasting (mass emailings, listservs, etc) where I
work and just a year ago we sent most of it in plain text, now our
clients are asking that it be sent HTML.  When we tell them that some
people won't be able to read it, they say it's a small enough
percentage that they really don't care.  Even marketing people are
recommending HTML email and telling those who only support plain text
to screw off.

The desire for people to be able to send email in whatever font they
want using whatever colors they want will eventually outweigh the
practicality of plain text.  It's already happened in applications,
more attention is paid to the GUI than the backend.


----- Original Message -----
>From: "Daniel Thoroughgood" <dthoroug@bigpond.net.au>
>To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
>Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2001 2:49 AM
>Subject: Re: REMINDER: *NO* HTML and only *relevant* quoting
>
>
>Interesting that you replied in HTML :)
>
>You may want to have a look at your options, you appear to be using
>Outlook
>Express.
>Click Tools and then Options
>Select the Send tab and remove the tick from Reply to messages using
>the
>format in which they were sent.
>
>Regards,
>Daniel
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "kuros" <kuros@pgtv.net>
>To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
>Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2001 11:34 AM
>Subject: Re: REMINDER: *NO* HTML and only *relevant* quoting
>
>
>Speaking for myself, HTML email irritates me. I don't like having to
>try to
>decipher the words in a message that has the Color Scheme From Hell. I
>much
>prefer black and white. I would guess that other people on this list
>feel
>the same way.
>
>Also, as Mr. Borah pointed out, it is against the rules.
>
>Kuros
>


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From: "Chad" <feistfan@chadkeffer.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
References: <001401c12cd9$cee00dc0$480ce4d8@redshift.com> <000d01c12c79$87809360$3490180a@chronos>
Subject: Re: Jeffrey Flower favorite scene
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 03:29:13 -0500
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Chad" <feistfan@chadkeffer.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Jeffrey Flower favorite scene
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 03:29:13 -0500
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

My favorite scene is in "Magician: Master" where Lyam, Brucal, and
Rodric along with the Armies of the West and the Armies of the East
are facing off and Brucal turns to Lyam and says "On your word we have
civil war".

Well, and any scene with Pug and Carline in "Magician: Apprentice" is
always good for a smile.

----- Original Message -----
>From: "Jeffrey Flower" <chronos@teamut.com>
>To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
>Sent: Friday, August 24, 2001 3:48 AM
>Subject: Re: Jeffrey Flower favorite scene
>
>
>Along with the Coliseum, I love the part Where Thomas fights the Dread
>and
>it rips his arm off (supposedly) and then once he finds out what he
>needs
>you see a glimpse of the True Thomas as he releases the illusion and
>roasts
>the Dread.
>
>Honestly and truthfully though, probably one of my favorite parts in
>the
>whole entire series is when Jimmy is swimming in the morning and he
>comes
>upon Gamina and she blasts his mind.  Then when he comes out of the
>stupor,
>Ray's description of the quick and simple bond of love between them is
>very
>powerful.  I am a sucker for love at first site.  Jimmy up until that
>time
>was such an "individual" character, that held strong feelings for so
>few
>people, that once he met Gamina, I felt that Ray could broaden Jimmy's
>horizons and show the possibilities that he had.  Jimmy is by far one
>of the
>most complex characters I have read about in a lot of fantasy books,
>and I
>love the intricacy in which he handled him.
>
>Jeffrey Flower
>
>It takes 45 muscles in your face to frown, but only 4 muscles in your
>arm to
>reach back and slap the hell out of someone
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "C.T. Cusimano" <supert@redshift.com>
>To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
>Sent: Friday, August 24, 2001 3:17 PM
>Subject: re: Jeffrey Flower favorite scene
>
>
>> Myt favorite scene uis Tomas balanced on the edge of madness
>chopping off
>> tsurani heads.  A very powerful scene maybe the most powerful in the
>books
>> only rivaled by Pug in the colliseum.
>>
>> BTW Does TOmas hold himself back or does he like slicing enemies up?
>WHy
>> doesnt he ever squish them with his mind like he did to the rock in
>> silverthorn?
>>
>>
>>
>
>

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From: "Daniel Thoroughgood" <dthoroug@bigpond.net.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
References: <NGELLDNAEMBGGGHFAJPBCEOMCHAA.gibbyfish@yahoo.com> <001a01c12c6a$98f5ddd0$3490180a@chronos> <007101c12d06$31be66e0$0100a8c0@dragon> <002001c12d3a$6972aa40$a75b2dcb@nakor> <011e01c12d3e$9b0f54a0$52c9b718@agundar.net>
Subject: OT: Re: REMINDER: *NO* HTML and only *relevant* quoting
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 18:30:13 +1000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Daniel Thoroughgood" <dthoroug@bigpond.net.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: OT: Re: REMINDER: *NO* HTML and only *relevant* quoting
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 18:30:13 +1000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Tell me about.

I work for one of the worlds largest computer corporations.  They have
recently changed corporate standards to all e-mail communications must be in
either RTF (Rich Text Format) or HTML.  Whilst I can see certain advantages
to this it is not neccessary.

Personally I prefer to send all e-mail in plain text unless I need to use
various fonts, tables etc.

Regards,
Daniel

----- Original Message -----
From: "Chad" <feistfan@chadkeffer.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2001 6:19 PM
Subject: Re: REMINDER: *NO* HTML and only *relevant* quoting


> Plain Text is easier to read and not all email clients support HTML
> (or Rich Text) email.  However, the way media moves, I suppose it's
> just a matter of time until email is HTML by default instead of plain
> text.
>
> We do some email broadcasting (mass emailings, listservs, etc) where I
> work and just a year ago we sent most of it in plain text, now our
> clients are asking that it be sent HTML.  When we tell them that some
> people won't be able to read it, they say it's a small enough
> percentage that they really don't care.  Even marketing people are
> recommending HTML email and telling those who only support plain text
> to screw off.
>
> The desire for people to be able to send email in whatever font they
> want using whatever colors they want will eventually outweigh the
> practicality of plain text.  It's already happened in applications,
> more attention is paid to the GUI than the backend.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Daniel Thoroughgood" <dthoroug@bigpond.net.au>
> To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2001 2:49 AM
> Subject: Re: REMINDER: *NO* HTML and only *relevant* quoting
>
>
> Interesting that you replied in HTML :)
>
> You may want to have a look at your options, you appear to be using
> Outlook
> Express.
> Click Tools and then Options
> Select the Send tab and remove the tick from Reply to messages using
> the
> format in which they were sent.
>
> Regards,
> Daniel
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "kuros" <kuros@pgtv.net>
> To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2001 11:34 AM
> Subject: Re: REMINDER: *NO* HTML and only *relevant* quoting
>
>
> Speaking for myself, HTML email irritates me. I don't like having to
> try to
> decipher the words in a message that has the Color Scheme From Hell. I
> much
> prefer black and white. I would guess that other people on this list
> feel
> the same way.
>
> Also, as Mr. Borah pointed out, it is against the rules.
>
> Kuros
>



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From: Christopher Adam Manley <amanley@host.ptbo.igs.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Crydee's Layout
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 10:19:18 -0400 (EDT)
From: Christopher Adam Manley <amanley@host.ptbo.igs.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Crydee's Layout
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


Morning all --

I'm attempting to sketch out what exactly Crydee and the surrounding areas
look like.  And I've run into a couple of bumps that hopefully can be
cleared up ...

The major issues is -- is Crydee mostly contained within the keep's walls?
I get the impression that the fishing and farming communities are outside,
but that all other craftsman and such work (and perhaps live?) within the
walls of the keep.

If they're not within the walls, I'm assuming the 'town' of Crydee spreads
out west of the keep until it hits the water/docks area.  Or perhaps its
both -- homes outside the keep and places of work within ...

That's about it.  Comments on this would be helpful.

And if anyone else has a vision of what they picture Crydee looking like
(hopefully based upon what was in the novels!) I'd like to hear it. :)

Best,
Christopher Adam Manley.



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To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
References: <NGELLDNAEMBGGGHFAJPBCEOMCHAA.gibbyfish@yahoo.com> <001a01c12c6a$98f5ddd0$3490180a@chronos> <007101c12d06$31be66e0$0100a8c0@dragon> <002001c12d3a$6972aa40$a75b2dcb@nakor>
Subject: Re: REMINDER: *NO* HTML and only *relevant* quoting
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 22:44:34 -0500
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Jeffrey Flower" <chronos@teamut.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: REMINDER: *NO* HTML and only *relevant* quoting
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 22:44:34 -0500
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First off I want to state that being new to this list, I didn't know that we
couldn't post in HTML, and if those are Ray's rules, then I am cool with
that.  I was only pointing out the inane line of pouting that people were
going off on solely for something as minor as the occasional HTML post.  I
find it funny to see how worked up people can get and what soapboxes they
choose to step up on..  Kind of like people who want a man-hole called a
people-hole because they find it sexually degrading.

Jeffrey Flower

P.S. Daniel I am well aware of how to work Outlook Express...hehe hehheh...I
choose to reply in HTML soley for the effect.  And lo and behold, look what
happened.

To all:  I will do my best to keep the HTML posts to a minimum, but if an
occasional one slips through, my apologies beforehand.  I am a freelance
graphic artist and I use HTML to send webpage peices back and forth between
clients and friends.

"It takes 45 muscles in your face to frown, but only 4 muscles in your arm
to reach back and slap the hell out of someone"

----- Original Message -----
From: "Daniel Thoroughgood" <dthoroug@bigpond.net.au>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2001 2:49 AM
Subject: Re: REMINDER: *NO* HTML and only *relevant* quoting


> Interesting that you replied in HTML :)
>
> You may want to have a look at your options, you appear to be using Outlook
> Express.
> Click Tools and then Options
> Select the Send tab and remove the tick from Reply to messages using the
> format in which they were sent.
>
> Regards,
> Daniel
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "kuros" <kuros@pgtv.net>
> To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2001 11:34 AM
> Subject: Re: REMINDER: *NO* HTML and only *relevant* quoting
>
>
> Speaking for myself, HTML email irritates me. I don't like having to try to
> decipher the words in a message that has the Color Scheme From Hell. I much
> prefer black and white. I would guess that other people on this list feel
> the same way.
>
> Also, as Mr. Borah pointed out, it is against the rules.
>
> Kuros
>
>
>



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From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re: REMINDER: *NO* HTML and only *relevant* quoting
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From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: REMINDER: *NO* HTML and only *relevant* quoting
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 15:01:41 -0400
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Dear Jeffery:

I personally do not care what format you use to post, but I will try to 
explain why people get upset. I could be totally off the mark, but this is 
more or less what I was told when I joined the list and posted in HTML, of 
course not knowing any better.

The thing is, some people use non-windows based operating systems. These, 
coupled with the people that have an older windows based system, use sevices 
that can not decipher the HTML in the email message. What happens is the 
email message turns into this huge page of (apparently) unrelated letters 
and HTML code that they have a very hard time reading. In truth, a friend of 
mine who used AOL 4.0 until just a few months ago who also had the same 
problem and could not read the email that I sent him in HTML.

Now I realize that there are people on the list that jump down your throat 
for the perceived evil menace that is HTML, but you must understand that 
this topic continuosly comes up as more people (with HTML activated email) 
sign on the list. They sometimes think that just because they told Johnny 
and Paul and Mike and Larrry and Bobby and Fred and Justin and ......., 
about the problem, that when little Andy joins the list, he should just know 
better, even though he is new to the list, never read the older messages 
about HTML, and might not even have a clue as to the difference between HTML 
and Plain Text, let alone know who to shut it off. So, deal with the fact 
that some other people on the list have a hard time acting like mature 
rational adults and just turn off the HTML. It will make the list a much 
happier place and keep people from bitching at you.

Adieu

Jimmy


>From: "Jeffrey Flower" <chronos@teamut.com>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
>Subject: Re: REMINDER: *NO* HTML and only *relevant* quoting
>Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 22:44:34 -0500
>
>First off I want to state that being new to this list, I didn't know that 
>we
>couldn't post in HTML, and if those are Ray's rules, then I am cool with
>that.  I was only pointing out the inane line of pouting that people were
>going off on solely for something as minor as the occasional HTML post.  I
>find it funny to see how worked up people can get and what soapboxes they
>choose to step up on..  Kind of like people who want a man-hole called a
>people-hole because they find it sexually degrading.
>
>Jeffrey Flower
>
>P.S. Daniel I am well aware of how to work Outlook Express...hehe 
>hehheh...I
>choose to reply in HTML soley for the effect.  And lo and behold, look what
>happened.
>
>To all:  I will do my best to keep the HTML posts to a minimum, but if an
>occasional one slips through, my apologies beforehand.  I am a freelance
>graphic artist and I use HTML to send webpage peices back and forth between
>clients and friends.
>
>"It takes 45 muscles in your face to frown, but only 4 muscles in your arm
>to reach back and slap the hell out of someone"
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Daniel Thoroughgood" <dthoroug@bigpond.net.au>
>To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
>Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2001 2:49 AM
>Subject: Re: REMINDER: *NO* HTML and only *relevant* quoting
>
>
> > Interesting that you replied in HTML :)
> >
> > You may want to have a look at your options, you appear to be using
>Outlook
> > Express.
> > Click Tools and then Options
> > Select the Send tab and remove the tick from Reply to messages using the
> > format in which they were sent.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Daniel
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "kuros" <kuros@pgtv.net>
> > To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> > Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2001 11:34 AM
> > Subject: Re: REMINDER: *NO* HTML and only *relevant* quoting
> >
> >
> > Speaking for myself, HTML email irritates me. I don't like having to try
>to
> > decipher the words in a message that has the Color Scheme From Hell. I
>much
> > prefer black and white. I would guess that other people on this list 
>feel
> > the same way.
> >
> > Also, as Mr. Borah pointed out, it is against the rules.
> >
> > Kuros
> >
> >
> >
>


_________________________________________________________________
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From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
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Subject: Re: Esperanto Translations of Mr. Feist's Works (going OT)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 16:33:09 -0500
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Esperanto Translations of Mr. Feist's Works (going OT)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 16:33:09 -0500
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

> Esperanto is an artificial language, not the only one, but the one that
> was the most successful.  It's basically a hobby for people who like
> that sort of thing, similar to folks who learn Klingon.

That was my mistake, I was mixing it up in my head with another
langauge (one native to the Iberian Pennisula) which is slowly
fading out.

> It will take more than 200 years for all languages but English to
> wither; we will probably have several centuries of folks speaking two
> languages, English for international information, and the local tongue.
> But the "local" can be over a billion people if it's Cantonese.

I said "several hundred" will remain in about 200 years.  This would
of course include languages like French, German, English, Spanish
Cantonese, etc.  The major languages of the world, what is
disappearing is locally restricted dialects.  In most cases, to the
incursion of the aforementioned languages.

-James



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References: <NGELLDNAEMBGGGHFAJPBCEOMCHAA.gibbyfish@yahoo.com> <001a01c12c6a$98f5ddd0$3490180a@chronos> <007101c12d06$31be66e0$0100a8c0@dragon> <002001c12d3a$6972aa40$a75b2dcb@nakor> <011e01c12d3e$9b0f54a0$52c9b718@agundar.net> <003a01c12d40$298148a0$a75b2dcb@nakor>
Subject: Re: REMINDER: *NO* HTML and only *relevant* quoting (OT + rant)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 16:50:57 -0500
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: REMINDER: *NO* HTML and only *relevant* quoting (OT + rant)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 16:50:57 -0500
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

(activate rant mode)

I am capable of doing Rich text/HTML or Plain Text and I vastly
prefer plain text because the rich text is:

A: Generally irritating on the eyes, because a large number of
people that I know prefer to be very flowery and inclined to make it
"pretty" or "cute" and they fail miserably at it.  People need to
start taking classes in color coordination.

B: More annoying to download.  The average html e-mail I receive is
3-4 times the size of my average plain text.  This gets really
annoying when I happen to be doing an extensive conversation via
e-mail, particularly when doing multiple lines of thought.  Those
e-mails in plain text can exceed 20 KB easily.  I hate to think of
my download time when I get three or four of those when they are in
HTML.

C: Aggravating to scroll through.  As with the problem of download,
an e-mail that is heavily coded with graphics can be problematic to
scan through without your system trying to insert all the images.
If you are at all like me you are inclined to scan a message before
bothering to read it fully and spend the time to deal with it.  With
an average of over 100 e-mails a day on a normal day, and 1000 or
more on an extremely busy one, I haven't the time to deal with the
additional headache of HTML.  Hence the reason that when my company
sends my messages in HTML I chew them out.

    If I can put in my own two cents here, I am getting really sick
of companies, from music, computing, television, and more all
telling me what I should like and use as it is "better" because it
is flashier.  I really detest that logic, particularly since I am a
truly content oriented person.  I couldn't care less if a page is
run on HTML or 5.0 so long as the content of that page is relevant
to what I want to look into.  It is getting almost as bad my idiot
representatives in the US government (none of whom I voted for but
have to deal with anyway - and yes I do vote).

(disengage rant mode)

-James

> Tell me about.
>
> I work for one of the worlds largest computer corporations.  They have
> recently changed corporate standards to all e-mail communications must be in
> either RTF (Rich Text Format) or HTML.  Whilst I can see certain advantages
> to this it is not neccessary.
>
> Personally I prefer to send all e-mail in plain text unless I need to use
> various fonts, tables etc.
>
> Regards,
> Daniel

> > Plain Text is easier to read and not all email clients support HTML
> > (or Rich Text) email.  However, the way media moves, I suppose it's
> > just a matter of time until email is HTML by default instead of plain
> > text.
> >
> > We do some email broadcasting (mass emailings, listservs, etc) where I
> > work and just a year ago we sent most of it in plain text, now our
> > clients are asking that it be sent HTML.  When we tell them that some
> > people won't be able to read it, they say it's a small enough
> > percentage that they really don't care.  Even marketing people are
> > recommending HTML email and telling those who only support plain text
> > to screw off.
> >
> > The desire for people to be able to send email in whatever font they
> > want using whatever colors they want will eventually outweigh the
> > practicality of plain text.  It's already happened in applications,
> > more attention is paid to the GUI than the backend.



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Subject: Re: REMINDER: *NO* HTML and only *relevant* quoting
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 17:07:32 -0500
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: REMINDER: *NO* HTML and only *relevant* quoting
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 17:07:32 -0500
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

> First off I want to state that being new to this list, I didn't know that we
> couldn't post in HTML, and if those are Ray's rules, then I am cool with
> that.  I was only pointing out the inane line of pouting that people were
> going off on solely for something as minor as the occasional HTML post.  I
> find it funny to see how worked up people can get and what soapboxes they
> choose to step up on..  Kind of like people who want a man-hole called a
> people-hole because they find it sexually degrading.

    They are not Ray's rules, they are the List's rules, Ray doesn't
run the list though he is the focus and obviously an intigral part
of the list.  Which are posted clearly and IIRC sent to subscribers
when they first join on the welcome message, though I haven't seen
the welcome message in over two years I could be wrong on that
count.  Either way they are posted and we do expect you to make a
reasonable attempt to abide by them.
    As for the soap box comment that might be a little excessive.
People don't pay for the privalige of calling it a manhole or people
hole as they want.  People however do pay for the amount they
download off the internet in some regions.  Trust me here in that
most people will shrug their shoulders about a lot of issues until
you tell them it is going to cost them something.  I will get really
upset with peole when thier disregard puts me in a possition where I
have to pay more for things.  I don't like having to pay high bills
because of you or anyone else, but because of some people out there
I have to pay higher bills than I otherwise would (namely my car
insurance bill).  The long an the short of it is, that the HTML is
more expessive for a fair number of individuals because either they
can't read it, hence it is a waste of time to download, or because
it is substantially larger files and also wastes time and band
width.

> P.S. Daniel I am well aware of how to work Outlook Express...hehe
> hehheh...I choose to reply in HTML soley for the effect.  And lo and
> behold, look what happened.

This comment is just plain juvenille, welcome to my personal kill
file, say hello to Calvin for me.



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Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 10:14:49 +1000
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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Anestis Kozakis <kenosti@labyrinth.net.au>
Subject: Re: REMINDER: *NO* HTML and only *relevant* quoting
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 10:14:49 +1000
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Anestis Kozakis <kenosti@labyrinth.net.au>
Subject: Re: REMINDER: *NO* HTML and only *relevant* quoting
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

>First off I want to state that being new to this list, I didn't know that we
>couldn't post in HTML, and if those are Ray's rules, then I am cool with
>that.  I was only pointing out the inane line of pouting that people were
>going off on solely for something as minor as the occasional HTML post.  I
>find it funny to see how worked up people can get and what soapboxes they
>choose to step up on..  Kind of like people who want a man-hole called a
>people-hole because they find it sexually degrading.

HTML/Rich text E-Mail is frowned upon for the following reasons :

1] Not everyone has an email client that can read it.
    a] People using older versions of Windows (3.11 and the like)
    b] People using Linux and text-based e-mail programs

2] Some people have limits on their ISP connections.
    a] Some ISP's charge per minute after a particular amount of time 
(see below on size of HTML e-mail)
    b] Some have megabyte limit, and once a person goes over the 
limit, they have to pay extra per extra megabyte they download.

3] HTML E-Mail can be anywhere form 2-10 times or more the size of 
text e-mail.  This means more time for people to download.  Some 
people are still on 36K modems.

4] Based on 3] above, you quickly end up filling people's mailboxes, 
due tot he size of HTML messages.  This means they end up not 
receiving E-Mail, as new messages get bounced back to the originating 
sender saying "Their mailbox is full."  Each ISP has different 
limits, so you can never tell.

The above are reasons why HTML E-Mail is frowned upon.

>Jeffrey Flower
>
>P.S. Daniel I am well aware of how to work Outlook Express...hehe hehheh...I
>choose to reply in HTML soley for the effect.  And lo and behold, look what
>happened.
>
>To all:  I will do my best to keep the HTML posts to a minimum, but if an
>occasional one slips through, my apologies beforehand.  I am a freelance
>graphic artist and I use HTML to send webpage peices back and forth between
>clients and friends.

Surely, based on the reasons above, sending pieces of web-pages 
through E-Mail is non-productive.

Wouldn't it be easier to put the pieces up on a web-page somewhere, 
and tell your friends/clients "Go to this URL to see what it looks. 
Let me know what changes you want done".

I know that's what I do, and it makes everyone happy.

And before you say "But they want to see what things look like 
instantly, and HTML e-mail allows me to do this", think about the 
fact that the more bandwidth you use sending HTML/Rich Text E-Mails, 
that leaves less bandwidth for other people to use.

Anestis.
-- 
kenosti@labyrinth.net.au
"A complete list of this film's associate producers
  is available upon request."
    -- In End Credits for "State and Main"



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References: <NGELLDNAEMBGGGHFAJPBCEOMCHAA.gibbyfish@yahoo.com> <001a01c12c6a$98f5ddd0$3490180a@chronos> <007101c12d06$31be66e0$0100a8c0@dragon> <002001c12d3a$6972aa40$a75b2dcb@nakor> <001d01c12d18$447b2270$3490180a@chronos> <005601c12db2$578a6200$c541fc9e@oemcomputer>
Subject: Re: REMINDER: *NO* HTML and only *relevant* quoting
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 05:33:40 -0500
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Jeffrey Flower" <chronos@teamut.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: REMINDER: *NO* HTML and only *relevant* quoting
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 05:33:40 -0500
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Wow, Another person up on a soapbox......Ma get me muh gun!!!

You seem to crap and moan about download times and then fire off this
epitaph that is pages long.

I thought this was a mailing list for people who enjoyed Ray's books.
Besides the select few posts I have seen in the week that I have been on the
list, there has been little talk about his books at all.  Maybe we should
start a forums page for crapping and whining.

I thought this list would be a great way to meet some people and talk about
some of the best books I have read, and keep up on the new books coming out
and to get some insight into what Ray had in mind while writing his books.
If I am wrong in this assumption please let me know and I will gladly hop of
the list.

Jeffrey

"It takes 45 muscles in your face to frown, but only 4 muscles in your arm
to reach back and slap the hell out of someone"
----- Original Message -----
From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2001 5:07 PM
Subject: Re: REMINDER: *NO* HTML and only *relevant* quoting


> > First off I want to state that being new to this list, I didn't
> know that we
> > couldn't post in HTML, and if those are Ray's rules, then I am
> cool with
> > that.  I was only pointing out the inane line of pouting that
> people were
> > going off on solely for something as minor as the occasional HTML
> post.  I
> > find it funny to see how worked up people can get and what
> soapboxes they
> > choose to step up on..  Kind of like people who want a man-hole
> called a
> > people-hole because they find it sexually degrading.
>
>     They are not Ray's rules, they are the List's rules, Ray doesn't
> run the list though he is the focus and obviously an intigral part
> of the list.  Which are posted clearly and IIRC sent to subscribers
> when they first join on the welcome message, though I haven't seen
> the welcome message in over two years I could be wrong on that
> count.  Either way they are posted and we do expect you to make a
> reasonable attempt to abide by them.
>     As for the soap box comment that might be a little excessive.
> People don't pay for the privalige of calling it a manhole or people
> hole as they want.  People however do pay for the amount they
> download off the internet in some regions.  Trust me here in that
> most people will shrug their shoulders about a lot of issues until
> you tell them it is going to cost them something.  I will get really
> upset with peole when thier disregard puts me in a possition where I
> have to pay more for things.  I don't like having to pay high bills
> because of you or anyone else, but because of some people out there
> I have to pay higher bills than I otherwise would (namely my car
> insurance bill).  The long an the short of it is, that the HTML is
> more expessive for a fair number of individuals because either they
> can't read it, hence it is a waste of time to download, or because
> it is substantially larger files and also wastes time and band
> width.
>
> > P.S. Daniel I am well aware of how to work Outlook Express...hehe
> > hehheh...I choose to reply in HTML soley for the effect.  And lo
> and
> > behold, look what happened.
>
> This comment is just plain juvenille, welcome to my personal kill
> file, say hello to Calvin for me.
>
>
>



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Subject: Re: REMINDER: *NO* HTML and only *relevant* quoting
In-Reply-To: <000101c12d5e$89c4db00$3490180a@chronos>
References: <NGELLDNAEMBGGGHFAJPBCEOMCHAA.gibbyfish@yahoo.com>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 02:03:08 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Al Solo <solo.nova@btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: REMINDER: *NO* HTML and only *relevant* quoting
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

This IS a list for people who enjoy(ed) Ray's books, but as a member of the 
list you have to respect the list rules. And as we have seen countless 
times in the past, those who do not respect the rules soon become ex-list 
members.
It's your choice.

Al

At 05:33 25/08/2001 -0500, Jeffrey Flower wrote:

>I thought this was a mailing list for people who enjoyed Ray's books.
>Besides the select few posts I have seen in the week that I have been on the
>list, there has been little talk about his books at all.  Maybe we should
>start a forums page for crapping and whining.
>



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References: <NGELLDNAEMBGGGHFAJPBCEOMCHAA.gibbyfish@yahoo.com> <001a01c12c6a$98f5ddd0$3490180a@chronos> <007101c12d06$31be66e0$0100a8c0@dragon> <002001c12d3a$6972aa40$a75b2dcb@nakor> <001d01c12d18$447b2270$3490180a@chronos> <005601c12db2$578a6200$c541fc9e@oemcomputer> <5.0.2.1.2.20010826020102.00a020e0@mail.btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: REMINDER: *NO* HTML and only *relevant* quoting
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 09:26:27 -0500
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Jeffrey Flower" <chronos@teamut.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: REMINDER: *NO* HTML and only *relevant* quoting
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 09:26:27 -0500
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I am fine with not sending HTML posts...I have only sent one.  I never said
I wouldn't follow the rules, I was just pointing out how worked up some
people get over such an inane thing.  This post on HTML has been the major
subject since I joined this list, and it wasn't even me that sent an HTML
post.

I have been reading Ray's books since they came out and I have read the
entire series from front to back over 30 times.  There isn't a day that goes
by that I don't have some kind of book in my hand.  Be it Eddings, or
Goodkind, or Clancy, or Patterson, or Cornwell, to name a few, (NO JORDAN
THOUGH, YUCK...can that man droll on and never get to the point.)

My point was simply that some people are not as computer savvy as maybe some
of us are.  They get on this list to share reading experiences.  Some people
will send HTML messages not even knowing it.  Some don't even know what HTML
is.  My point in even responding to the NO HTML post was simply that in the
week I have been on the list, I have seen NO HTML messages about 300% more
than any chatting about books we have read or books that are coming out.

So let's chat about books.

Jeffrey Flower
"It takes 45 muscles in your face to frown, but only 4 muscles in your arm
to reach back and slap the hell out of someone"
----- Original Message -----
From: "Al Solo" <solo.nova@btinternet.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2001 8:03 PM
Subject: Re: REMINDER: *NO* HTML and only *relevant* quoting


> This IS a list for people who enjoy(ed) Ray's books, but as a member of the
> list you have to respect the list rules. And as we have seen countless
> times in the past, those who do not respect the rules soon become ex-list
> members.
> It's your choice.
>
> Al
>
> At 05:33 25/08/2001 -0500, Jeffrey Flower wrote:
>
> >I thought this was a mailing list for people who enjoyed Ray's books.
> >Besides the select few posts I have seen in the week that I have been on the
> >list, there has been little talk about his books at all.  Maybe we should
> >start a forums page for crapping and whining.
> >
>
>
>



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References: <NGELLDNAEMBGGGHFAJPBCEOMCHAA.gibbyfish@yahoo.com> <001a01c12c6a$98f5ddd0$3490180a@chronos> <007101c12d06$31be66e0$0100a8c0@dragon> <002001c12d3a$6972aa40$a75b2dcb@nakor> <001d01c12d18$447b2270$3490180a@chronos> <005601c12db2$578a6200$c541fc9e@oemcomputer>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 13:10:59 +1000
From: Alan <Jherek@bigpond.com>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; m18) Gecko/20001120 Netscape6/6.0 (CCK -APCMAG)
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: REMINDER: *NO* HTML and only *relevant* quoting
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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James Young wrote:

>> First off I want to state that being new to this list, I didn't
> 
> know that we
> 
>> couldn't post in HTML, and if those are Ray's rules, then I am
> 
> cool with
> 
>> that.  I was only pointing out the inane line of pouting that
> 
> people were
> 
>> going off on solely for something as minor as the occasional HTML
> 
> post.  I
> 
>> find it funny to see how worked up people can get and what
> 
> soapboxes they
> 
>> choose to step up on..  Kind of like people who want a man-hole
> 
> called a
> 
>> people-hole because they find it sexually degrading.
> 
> 
>     They are not Ray's rules, they are the List's rules, Ray doesn't
> run the list though he is the focus and obviously an intigral part
> of the list.  Which are posted clearly and IIRC sent to subscribers
> when they first join on the welcome message, though I haven't seen
> the welcome message in over two years I could be wrong on that
> count.  Either way they are posted and we do expect you to make a
> reasonable attempt to abide by them.
>     As for the soap box comment that might be a little excessive.
> People don't pay for the privalige of calling it a manhole or people
> hole as they want.  People however do pay for the amount they
> download off the internet in some regions.  Trust me here in that
> most people will shrug their shoulders about a lot of issues until
> you tell them it is going to cost them something.  I will get really
> upset with peole when thier disregard puts me in a possition where I
> have to pay more for things.  I don't like having to pay high bills
> because of you or anyone else, but because of some people out there
> I have to pay higher bills than I otherwise would (namely my car
> insurance bill).  The long an the short of it is, that the HTML is
> more expessive for a fair number of individuals because either they
> can't read it, hence it is a waste of time to download, or because
> it is substantially larger files and also wastes time and band
> width.
> 
> 
>> P.S. Daniel I am well aware of how to work Outlook Express...hehe
>> hehheh...I choose to reply in HTML soley for the effect.  And lo
> 
> and
> 
>> behold, look what happened.
> 
> 
> This comment is just plain juvenille, welcome to my personal kill
> file, say hello to Calvin for me.

Just a touch hasty don't you think.

Alan

-- 
And he sees the vision splendid of the sunlit plains extended
And at night the wond'rous glory of the everlasting stars

Clancy of the Overflow



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References: <NGELLDNAEMBGGGHFAJPBCEOMCHAA.gibbyfish@yahoo.com> <001a01c12c6a$98f5ddd0$3490180a@chronos> <007101c12d06$31be66e0$0100a8c0@dragon> <002001c12d3a$6972aa40$a75b2dcb@nakor> <001d01c12d18$447b2270$3490180a@chronos> <005601c12db2$578a6200$c541fc9e@oemcomputer> <5.0.2.1.2.20010826020102.00a020e0@mail.btinternet.com> <000701c12d71$ed8f7240$3490180a@chronos>
Subject: Re: REMINDER: *NO* HTML and only *relevant* quoting
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 13:45:23 +1000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "A Irving" <aignome@dingoblue.net.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: REMINDER: *NO* HTML and only *relevant* quoting
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 13:45:23 +1000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Dan can you please tell people to drop this thread.
----- Original Message -----
From: Jeffrey Flower <chronos@teamut.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2001 12:26 AM
Subject: Re: REMINDER: *NO* HTML and only *relevant* quoting


> I am fine with not sending HTML posts...I have only sent one.  I never said
> I wouldn't follow the rules, I was just pointing out how worked up some
> people get over such an inane thing.  This post on HTML has been the major
> subject since I joined this list, and it wasn't even me that sent an HTML
> post.
>
> I have been reading Ray's books since they came out and I have read the
> entire series from front to back over 30 times.  There isn't a day that goes
> by that I don't have some kind of book in my hand.  Be it Eddings, or
> Goodkind, or Clancy, or Patterson, or Cornwell, to name a few, (NO JORDAN
> THOUGH, YUCK...can that man droll on and never get to the point.)
>
> My point was simply that some people are not as computer savvy as maybe some
> of us are.  They get on this list to share reading experiences.  Some people
> will send HTML messages not even knowing it.  Some don't even know what HTML
> is.  My point in even responding to the NO HTML post was simply that in the
> week I have been on the list, I have seen NO HTML messages about 300% more
> than any chatting about books we have read or books that are coming out.
>
> So let's chat about books.
>
> Jeffrey Flower
> "It takes 45 muscles in your face to frown, but only 4 muscles in your arm
> to reach back and slap the hell out of someone"
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Al Solo" <solo.nova@btinternet.com>
> To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2001 8:03 PM
> Subject: Re: REMINDER: *NO* HTML and only *relevant* quoting
>
>
> > This IS a list for people who enjoy(ed) Ray's books, but as a member of
> the
> > list you have to respect the list rules. And as we have seen countless
> > times in the past, those who do not respect the rules soon become ex-list
> > members.
> > It's your choice.
> >
> > Al
> >
> > At 05:33 25/08/2001 -0500, Jeffrey Flower wrote:
> >
> > >I thought this was a mailing list for people who enjoyed Ray's books.
> > >Besides the select few posts I have seen in the week that I have been on
> the
> > >list, there has been little talk about his books at all.  Maybe we should
> > >start a forums page for crapping and whining.
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>



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Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 00:41:20 EDT
Subject: Re: REMINDER: *NO* HTML and only *relevant* quoting
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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*** EOOH ***
From: Valheru89@aol.com
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 00:41:20 EDT
Subject: Re: REMINDER: *NO* HTML and only *relevant* quoting
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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can you all please get over the subject damn!!! I got on this mailing list to 
learn about rays and other peoples work not argue about somthing as silly as 
no HTML.

              Please stop being babys,
                                                   Chance

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Subject: Re: REMINDER: *NO* HTML and only *relevant* quoting
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Barker" <heechee@softhome.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: REMINDER: *NO* HTML and only *relevant* quoting
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 15:05:55 +1000
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


----- Original Message -----
>From: Valheru89@aol.com
>To: FEISTFANS-L
>Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2001 2:41 PM
>Subject: Re: REMINDER: *NO* HTML and only *relevant* quoting
>
>can you all please get over the subject damn!!! I got on this mailing list to
>learn about rays and other peoples work not argue about somthing as silly as
>no HTML.
>
>	      Please stop being babys,
>						   Chance

Now see here, sonny.

1. We're not being "babys" by insisting that you conform to a simple rule so
as not to inconveniance any member of the list. While we're on the subject,
take some time with your spelling and grammar. Little things like capital
letters and apostrophes make a big difference in the big world, and help
those members of the list who aren't native English speakers.

2. This kind of attitude will, no doubt, see you going down the same path as
Calvin. However, you're not as irritating as him, so why not just post in
plain text? Then everything can be peachy.

Cheers,
James



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*** EOOH ***
From: Valheru89@aol.com
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 01:15:31 EDT
Subject: Re: REMINDER: *NO* HTML and only *relevant* quoting
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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In a message dated 8/25/2001 10:08:37 PM Pacific Daylight Time, 
heechee@softhome.net writes:


> Now see here, sonny.
> 
> 1. We're not being "babys" by insisting that you conform to a simple rule so
> as not to inconveniance any member of the list. While we're on the subject,
> take some time with your spelling and grammar. Little things like capital
> letters and apostrophes make a big difference in the big world, and help
> those members of the list who aren't native English speakers.
> 
> 2. This kind of attitude will, no doubt, see you going down the same path as
> Calvin. However, you're not as irritating as him, so why not just post in
> plain text? Then everything can be peachy.
> 
> Cheers,
> James
> 
> 
> 
> 

      James all I was saying is that you all need to get off the subject you 
have been talking about it forever. I think everyone gets your point OK.

                                          -Chance-
PS Don't ever call me sonny Gramps! Oh yea you spelled Inconvenience wrong.

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Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 23:41:23 -0600
From: Ben Nagy <bnagy@powersurfr.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: REMINDER: *NO* HTML and only *relevant* quoting
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Just a word of warning Chance,

James (as well as a couple of other previous members and me have TRIED
to point out) is TRYING (I'll stress TRY once again) to point out to you
that there is a set list of rules involved in posting to this mail list.
No one here likes reading over and over again about HTML postings
either, but the fact is you AREN'T listening. You are replying using
HTML once again.

We try to help people understand where to find easy answers to questions
so they don't have to be posted to the list again (it's been around for
over 5 years, so most questions you can think of have already been
answered), and to provide an easy to understand list of basic rules in a
convenient place.

You can find almost all information here:
    http://www.psihawk.com/feist/
and this is posted regularly to new members, but too many people choose
to ignore it.

If you choose to ignore and ridicule the offers of help and advice that
have been offered to you, you will soon discover (as many others before
you have) that you may not be a member of the list for very long. 

Cheers
(P.S. PS isn't proper, and babys and gramps aren't even words)

In a message dated 8/25/2001 10:08:37 PM Pacific Daylight Time, 
heechee@softhome.net writes: 

>
>  Now see here, sonny. 
>
>  1. We're not being "babys" by insisting that you conform to a simple rule so 
>  as not to inconveniance any member of the list. While we're on the subject, 
>  take some time with your spelling and grammar. Little things like capital 
>  letters and apostrophes make a big difference in the big world, and help 
>  those members of the list who aren't native English speakers. 
>
>  2. This kind of attitude will, no doubt, see you going down the same path as 
>  Calvin. However, you're not as irritating as him, so why not just post in 
>  plain text? Then everything can be peachy. 
>
>  Cheers, 
>  James 
>
>
>
>
>
>     James all I was saying is that you all need to get off the subject you 
>have been talking about it forever. I think everyone gets your point OK. 
>
>					  -Chance- 
>PS Don't ever call me sonny Gramps! Oh yea you spelled Inconvenience
>wrong.
>

--



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Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 01:48:17 EDT
Subject: Re: REMINDER: *NO* HTML and only *relevant* quoting
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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*** EOOH ***
From: Valheru89@aol.com
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 01:48:17 EDT
Subject: Re: REMINDER: *NO* HTML and only *relevant* quoting
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Ok once and for all what the hell is HTML . And how do i get rid of it.

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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Meg Wilkinson <mwilk@aracnet.com>
Subject: AOL and HTML
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 23:41:52 -0700
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Meg Wilkinson <mwilk@aracnet.com>
Subject: AOL and HTML
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

One of the problems with AOL 6.0 is that it embeds HTML within the mail by 
default. You need to reset it. This is a method that I believe should work:

1. Compile your e-mail
2. Right click inside the text box
3. Click Select All (at the bottom of the menu)
4. Right Click in the text box again
5. Click Text Click Normal
6. Send the e-mail in the usual way

If that doesn't work, you can try these:

When authoring mail in AOL 6.0, remove all formatting from the message body 
and send the message in the AOL 6.0 default font of Arial, 10 point. Do not 
include any bolds, italics, underlines, colors, or other styles.

Use AOL Mail on the Web (at http://www.aol.com) to send mail to Internet 
addresses that reject formatting. AOL Mail on the Web sends mail as plain 
text only



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From: "A Irving" <aignome@dingoblue.net.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Pug in Legends
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 18:49:38 +1000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "A Irving" <aignome@dingoblue.net.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Pug in Legends
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 18:49:38 +1000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Hi Ray, I was just wondering if Pug would still be in the Jimmy The Hand
book?, even if a minor appearance.

From: Raymond E. Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2000 2:37 AM
Subject: Re: Co-Author Series
> Pug will not be in any of the Ledgends books.  Except for one novel
> about Jimmy (titled Jimmy the Hand) none of the major characters in
> the Riftwar will be featured.  The idea is to do "meanwhile, back at
> the ranch," sorts of stories, things that were going on in other
> locations than the action you read about in Magician.
>
> Pug will be a minor character at times in Conclave.
>
> Pug will not be a major character probably until I do the last Riftwar Saga.
>
> Best, R.E.F.

<Just deleting a lot of old emails>
CIAO,
           Aaron

http://www.hallofworlds.net/kerr/main.php
http://www.nightshadow.co.uk



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From: "Chad" <feistfan@chadkeffer.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
References: <4.3.2.7.2.20010825232731.0256c630@mail.aracnet.com>
Subject: Re: AOL and HTML
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 03:48:29 -0500
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Chad" <feistfan@chadkeffer.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: AOL and HTML
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 03:48:29 -0500
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

The other option would be to dump AO-Hell... (I mean AOL) and get a
real email client. :)

----- Original Message -----
>From: "Meg Wilkinson" <mwilk@aracnet.com>
>To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
>Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2001 1:41 AM
>Subject: AOL and HTML
>
>
>One of the problems with AOL 6.0 is that it embeds HTML within the
>mail by
>default. You need to reset it. This is a method that I believe should
>work:
>
>1. Compile your e-mail
>2. Right click inside the text box
>3. Click Select All (at the bottom of the menu)
>4. Right Click in the text box again
>5. Click Text Click Normal
>6. Send the e-mail in the usual way
>
>If that doesn't work, you can try these:
>
>When authoring mail in AOL 6.0, remove all formatting from the message
>body
>and send the message in the AOL 6.0 default font of Arial, 10 point.
>Do not
>include any bolds, italics, underlines, colors, or other styles.
>
>Use AOL Mail on the Web (at http://www.aol.com) to send mail to
>Internet
>addresses that reject formatting. AOL Mail on the Web sends mail as
>plain
>text only
>


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Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 18:45:59 +1000 (GMT+1000)
X-PH: V4.1@router2.mail.cornell.edu (Cornell Modified) 
From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: REMINDER: *NO* HTML and only *relevant* quoting
In-Reply-To: <002301c12dec$d04e2ac0$e21e3acb@heechee>
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.4.30.0108261845220.29621-100000@student.uq.edu.au>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 18:45:59 +1000 (GMT+1000)
From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: REMINDER: *NO* HTML and only *relevant* quoting
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


Look, I think the entire list has got the message.

There is no point arguing.

>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Valheru89@aol.com
> To: FEISTFANS-L
> Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2001 2:41 PM
> Subject: Re: REMINDER: *NO* HTML and only *relevant* quoting
>
> <<can you all please get over the subject damn!!! I got on this mailing list
> to
> learn about rays and other peoples work not argue about somthing as silly as
> no HTML.
>
>              Please stop being babys,
>                                                   Chance >>
>
> Now see here, sonny.
>
> 1. We're not being "babys" by insisting that you conform to a simple rule so
> as not to inconveniance any member of the list. While we're on the subject,
> take some time with your spelling and grammar. Little things like capital
> letters and apostrophes make a big difference in the big world, and help
> those members of the list who aren't native English speakers.
>
> 2. This kind of attitude will, no doubt, see you going down the same path as
> Calvin. However, you're not as irritating as him, so why not just post in
> plain text? Then everything can be peachy.
>
> Cheers,
> James
>
>

Thanks
Darragh
-=-=
www.iamtheporkfireman.com
[Email]: s356179@student.uq.edu.au [ICQ]: 114283262



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From: "Chad" <feistfan@chadkeffer.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
References: <Pine.OSF.4.30.0108261845220.29621-100000@student.uq.edu.au>
Subject: Re: REMINDER: *NO* HTML and only *relevant* quoting
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 04:10:41 -0500
MIME-Version: 1.0
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	charset="iso-8859-1"
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Chad" <feistfan@chadkeffer.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: REMINDER: *NO* HTML and only *relevant* quoting
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 04:10:41 -0500
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Let's just say the MIME standard is probably older than a lot of the
users here and is in need of serious revision and leave it at that. :)


----- Original Message -----
>From: "Darragh Murray" <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
>To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
>Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2001 3:45 AM
>Subject: Re: REMINDER: *NO* HTML and only *relevant* quoting
>
>
>
>Look, I think the entire list has got the message.
>
>There is no point arguing.
>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Valheru89@aol.com
>> To: FEISTFANS-L
>> Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2001 2:41 PM
>> Subject: Re: REMINDER: *NO* HTML and only *relevant* quoting
>>
>> <<can you all please get over the subject damn!!! I got on this mailing list
>> to
>> learn about rays and other peoples work not argue about somthing as silly as
>> no HTML.
>>
>>              Please stop being babys,
>>                                                   Chance >>
>>
>> Now see here, sonny.
>>
>> 1. We're not being "babys" by insisting that you conform to a simple rule so
>> as not to inconveniance any member of the list. While we're on the subject,
>> take some time with your spelling and grammar. Little things like capital
>> letters and apostrophes make a big difference in the big world, and help
>> those members of the list who aren't native English speakers.
>>
>> 2. This kind of attitude will, no doubt, see you going down the same path as
>> Calvin. However, you're not as irritating as him, so why not just post in
>> plain text? Then everything can be peachy.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> James
>>
>>
>
>Thanks
>Darragh
>-=-=
>www.iamtheporkfireman.com
>[Email]: s356179@student.uq.edu.au [ICQ]: 114283262
>


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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 06:10:20 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Pug in Legends
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On Sunday, August 26, 2001, at 01:49 AM, A Irving wrote:

> Hi Ray, I was just wondering if Pug would still be in the Jimmy The Hand
> book?, even if a minor appearance.

No, as Pug and Jimmy don't meet until after the events in Magician.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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From: "Chris Smith" <cjs94@zepler.org.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 16:59:19 +0100
Subject: Re: Crydee's Layout
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Chris Smith" <cjs94@zepler.org.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 16:59:19 +0100
Subject: Re: Crydee's Layout
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On 25 Aug 2001, at 10:19, Christopher Adam Manley wrote:
> The major issues is -- is Crydee mostly contained within the keep's walls?
> I get the impression that the fishing and farming communities are outside,
> but that all other craftsman and such work (and perhaps live?) within the
> walls of the keep.
>
> If they're not within the walls, I'm assuming the 'town' of Crydee spreads
> out west of the keep until it hits the water/docks area.  Or perhaps its
> both -- homes outside the keep and places of work within ...

After re-reading Magician chapter 16 ("Raid"), during which the 
Tsurani raid the harbour after hijacking Amos's ship, I have found 
the following:

1. The chapter refers to rude huts built within the keep to house 
those villagers that did not journey South to Carse and Tulan.

2. Whilst surveying the land from the castle walls, Arutha looks past 
the town to the forests to the North and North East of the castle.

3. Arutha has to travel through the town to reach the harbour from 
the castle.

I assume the following:

The only people not of the duke's court housed within the castle 
walls are those necessary for running and protecting the duke's 
household, and probably their families.

The castle is situated South of the Western-most extent of the 
forest, close to the Western shore. (which at that point is probably 
cliffs)

The town surrounds the harbour to the North of the castle, extending 
both South towards the castle and East.

Of course, I could be completely wrong.... :-)

Chris
--
Chris Smith
Work: chris.smith@tfbplc.co.uk     Home: cjs94@zepler.org.uk
PGP Key available from public key servers; Key ID 0x8586B4B2
"Veni, vidi, velcro." - "I came, I saw, I stuck around."



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*** EOOH ***
From: Valheru89@aol.com
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 12:03:30 EDT
Subject: Re: AOL and HTML
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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In a message dated 8/25/2001 11:58:18 PM Pacific Daylight Time, 
mwilk@aracnet.com writes:


> . Compile your e-mail
> 2. Right click inside the text box
> 3. Click Select All (at the bottom of the menu)
> 4. Right Click in the text box again
> 5. Click Text Click Normal
> 6. Send the e-mail in the usual way  

how do i compile email 

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*** EOOH ***
From: Valheru89@aol.com
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 12:04:46 EDT
Subject: Re: AOL and HTML
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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In a message dated 8/26/2001 1:51:13 AM Pacific Daylight Time, 
feistfan@chadkeffer.com writes:


> The other option would be to dump AO-Hell... (I mean AOL) and get a
> )

OK listen I have had enough of people making fun of aol I have it and I am 
going to use it if you have a freaking problem oh well.
                 Chance


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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu, FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: LAR <lds627@home.com>
Subject: Re: AOL and HTML
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 13:15:16 -0700
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu, FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: LAR <lds627@home.com>
Subject: Re: AOL and HTML
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I tend to agree with Chance here, if not the wording. I have been on the 
net for the last 20 some odd years, starting with BBS' and on the inrernet 
for the last 15 years (Started when I was at AT&T). And while I have 
several connections both at home and work have always maintained anAOL 
account. As far as I know they are the only service where I can get a POP 
connection anywhere in the world, and also the only service where I can be 
assured total anonymity (Short of a court order) when I need it. Since 
Anon.penet.fi is dead, I am glad for that.

Larry


At 12:04 PM 8/26/01 -0400, Valheru89@aol.com wrote:
>In a message dated 8/26/2001 1:51:13 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
>feistfan@chadkeffer.com writes:
>
>
>>The other option would be to dump AO-Hell... (I mean AOL) and get a
>>real email client. :
>)
>
>OK listen I have had enough of people making fun of aol I have it and I am
>going to use it if you have a freaking problem oh well.
>                 Chance



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From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
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Subject: Re: AOL and HTML (OT)
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: AOL and HTML (OT)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 16:11:31 -0500
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

    Earthlink offers the same basic deal at several dollars less (I
am paying only $21 USD), fewer ads (all of which you can get rid of,
and I have), and better connection times over a 56K modem (I average
43.9K-49.7K), plus a fairly good base amount of private webspace, up
to 8 e-mail accounts per subscription, and unlimited usage of the
lines.  I know a fair number of other accounts which offer similar
things, all at better quality and price than AOL.
    As for the anonymity, that is not really true, people can track
you pretty easily on the net and find you without the company
divulging anything.  And finally the greatest reason to not be part
of AOhelL...they tend to funnel you to specific sites and play
parent on the net.  I detest that.
    But enough of this rant, I think that ISP wars should go the way
of OS wars, i.e. the banned subjects list.

-James (who left gateway.net when AOhelL bought it out)

> I tend to agree with Chance here, if not the wording. I have been on the
> net for the last 20 some odd years, starting with BBS' and on the inrernet
> for the last 15 years (Started when I was at AT&T). And while I have
> several connections both at home and work have always maintained anAOL
> account. As far as I know they are the only service where I can get a POP
> connection anywhere in the world, and also the only service where I can be
> assured total anonymity (Short of a court order) when I need it. Since
> Anon.penet.fi is dead, I am glad for that.
>
> Larry
>
> >OK listen I have had enough of people making fun of aol I have it and I am
> >going to use it if you have a freaking problem oh well.
> >                 Chance
>



1,,
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From: "Magnus Arvidsson" <magnus.arvidsson75@telia.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20010826131243.00a3a1f0@mail> <00ac01c12e73$af1091e0$9b41fc9e@oemcomputer>
Subject: STOP IT was:AOL and HTML (OT)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 23:26:36 +0200
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Magnus Arvidsson" <magnus.arvidsson75@telia.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: STOP IT was:AOL and HTML (OT)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 23:26:36 +0200
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

This is getting very close to being a I-will-unsubscribe-now causing thread.
It's not even remotely linked to Ray and his work. I could filter
all of those participating in the thread, but I would be sorry later on
when discussions turn to more Ray-related topics. People unsubscribes
a lot these days and I do not blame them.

Take this thread off this list. Send further comments in private. I'm at
the very end of my patience (as if that would count or make anyone care
<G>).

Magnus out--

>     Earthlink offers the same basic deal at several dollars less (I
> am paying only $21 USD), fewer ads (all of which you can get rid of,
> and I have), and better connection times over a 56K modem (I average
> 43.9K-49.7K), plus a fairly good base amount of private webspace, up
> to 8 e-mail accounts per subscription, and unlimited usage of the
> lines.  I know a fair number of other accounts which offer similar
> things, all at better quality and price than AOL.
>     As for the anonymity, that is not really true, people can track
> you pretty easily on the net and find you without the company
> divulging anything.  And finally the greatest reason to not be part
> of AOhelL...they tend to funnel you to specific sites and play
> parent on the net.  I detest that.
>     But enough of this rant, I think that ISP wars should go the way
> of OS wars, i.e. the banned subjects list.
>
> -James (who left gateway.net when AOhelL bought it out)
>
> > I tend to agree with Chance here, if not the wording. I have been
> on the
> > net for the last 20 some odd years, starting with BBS' and on the
> inrernet
> > for the last 15 years (Started when I was at AT&T). And while I
> have
> > several connections both at home and work have always maintained
> anAOL
> > account. As far as I know they are the only service where I can
> get a POP
> > connection anywhere in the world, and also the only service where
> I can be
> > assured total anonymity (Short of a court order) when I need it.
> Since
> > Anon.penet.fi is dead, I am glad for that.
> >
> > Larry
> >
> > >OK listen I have had enough of people making fun of aol I have it
> and I am
> > >going to use it if you have a freaking problem oh well.
> > >                 Chance
> >
>



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From: "Michael Gibson" <gibbyfish@yahoo.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: STOP IT was:AOL and HTML (OT)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 23:38:42 +0100
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*** EOOH ***
X-Apparently-From: <gibbyfish@yahoo.com>
From: "Michael Gibson" <gibbyfish@yahoo.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: STOP IT was:AOL and HTML (OT)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 23:38:42 +0100
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

> This is getting very close to being a I-will-unsubscribe-now causing thread.
> It's not even remotely linked to Ray and his work. I could filter
> all of those participating in the thread, but I would be sorry later on
> when discussions turn to more Ray-related topics. People unsubscribes
> a lot these days and I do not blame them.
>
> Take this thread off this list. Send further comments in private. I'm at
> the very end of my patience (as if that would count or make anyone care
> <G>).
>
> Magnus out--

I echo this - I've just downloaded 50+ e-mails (the server screwed up, and I
downloaded the messages twice), and the ones that were Feist related could be
counted on the fingers of one hand.  This is just plain silly.  In fact, I will
put up a page on my site laying out the issue, and how to post in plain text
using the major e-mail services.  If anyone has any info on this, please send it
to me off list.

Mike,
Gibfish of the West.


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com



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X-PH: V4.1@cornell.edu (Cornell Modified) 
From: "Doug Triplett, Superhero in Training !!!" <trippy@dougtriplett.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Magic Magic Magic
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 20:41:14 -0400
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Doug Triplett, Superhero in Training !!!" <trippy@dougtriplett.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Magic Magic Magic
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 20:41:14 -0400
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Ok I'll give you all an ON TOPIC (*looks at the gasps from the crowd*)
subject to chew.

We know that magic for magicians is a matter of perspective. We have the
Greater Path, Lesser Path, Natural (abilities of the Elves, Valheru), and
Godly (priests, clerics), and those that do not follow any Path.

Now we know that for Magicians, magic is both learned and Art. Lesser Paths
seem to follow more of a system than Greater Path. Greater Path magicians
seem go go with more of how the magic feels in its use.

The natural abilities speak for themselves. These are instinctive and part
of the person.

The area I think we should look at is Godly Magic. We know that there is
some fudging going on in the clerical area. Do you all think that anyone can
use clerical magic? Or is a magic using cleric simply someine who could have
been a magician but is following a different Path.

Examples:

When Pug and Dominic are captive on Kelwan. Dominic uses techniques that Pug
is able to follow and understand.

In the seperent War Saga, the use of Reiki by the characters. (Although this
may fall under psionics more than magic).

Well there are some thoughts to get us started. Fire Away.

Doug Triplett

PS. I should have the HTML fixed now since I messed it up on my last
reinstall. If I didnt email me OFF LIST.

Trippy@dougtriplett.com

Thanks.



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References: <008501c12e90$fac38350$01000001@krondor>
Subject: Re: Magic Magic Magic
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 18:24:32 -0700
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*** EOOH ***
From: "C.T. Cusimano" <supert@redshift.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Magic Magic Magic
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 18:24:32 -0700
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


----- Original Message -----
From: "Doug Triplett, Superhero in Training !!!" <trippy@dougtriplett.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2001 5:41 PM
Subject: Magic Magic Magic


> Ok I'll give you all an ON TOPIC (*looks at the gasps from the crowd*)
> subject to chew.
>
> We know that magic for magicians is a matter of perspective. We have the
> Greater Path, Lesser Path, Natural (abilities of the Elves, Valheru), and
> Godly (priests, clerics), and those that do not follow any Path.
>
> Now we know that for Magicians, magic is both learned and Art. Lesser Paths
> seem to follow more of a system than Greater Path. Greater Path magicians
> seem go go with more of how the magic feels in its use.

greater path is a scholarship, lesser a art. from magician said by hochopepa
>
> The natural abilities speak for themselves. These are instinctive and part
> of the person.
>
> The area I think we should look at is Godly Magic. We know that there is
> some fudging going on in the clerical area. Do you all think that anyone can
> use clerical magic? Or is a magic using cleric simply someine who could have
> been a magician but is following a different Path.
>
> Examples:
>
> When Pug and Dominic are captive on Kelwan. Dominic uses techniques that Pug
> is able to follow and understand.
>
> In the seperent War Saga, the use of Reiki by the characters. (Although this
> may fall under psionics more than magic).
>
> Well there are some thoughts to get us started. Fire Away.
>
> Doug Triplett
>
> PS. I should have the HTML fixed now since I messed it up on my last
> reinstall. If I didnt email me OFF LIST.
>
> Trippy@dougtriplett.com
>
> Thanks.
>



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From: "Philippe Dufour" <toledes@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Magic Magic Magic
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*** EOOH ***
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From: "Philippe Dufour" <toledes@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Magic Magic Magic
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 23:34:46 -0400
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>From: "Doug Triplett, Superhero in Training !!!" <trippy@dougtriplett.com>

[...]
>We know that magic for magicians is a matter of perspective. We have the
>Greater Path, Lesser Path, Natural (abilities of the Elves, Valheru), and
>Godly (priests, clerics), and those that do not follow any Path.

[...]

If I understand what Nakor always explains in the books, "there is no 
magic", only manipulation of the "stuff" that compose the universe.
So, IMHO, a lesser path would manipulate the stuff, or cast a spell as he 
sees it, by using totems. A greater path, with incantation and symbols. And 
a priest, by praying to his god. Each has it's own way of casting the spell, 
but they're all basicaly manipulating the same stuff; they're all using the 
same "pool" of magic.

Why, now, each path has weaknesses that the others don't have. I see it as 
psychological weaknesses. If I convince myself that I can't solve a math 
problem, I'll never be able to do it. As I see it, each path is convinced 
they cannot act outside what they defined as their limits...

Following this, yes, I think anyone able to see beyond the Paths, like Nakor 
or Pug, can cast any spell they want, be it priestly or magic.

Hope I said that right,
Philippe Dufour

_________________________________________________________________
Téléchargez MSN Explorer gratuitement à l'adresse 
http://explorer.msn.fr/intl.asp



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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu, <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
From: LAR <lds627@home.com>
Subject: Re: AOL and HTML (OT)  (For Clarification purposes only)
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 20:39:50 -0700
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu, <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
From: LAR <lds627@home.com>
Subject: Re: AOL and HTML (OT)  (For Clarification purposes only)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

OK my last word on the subject and the only reason I am writing it here is 
because several people contacted me off list.

YES, you can reach ANY POP3 Mailbox form ANYWHERE on the internet. More, 
you can Dial up any pop3 mailbox from anywhere in the world. But that is 
not my point. AOL is the only service to my knowledge that has LOCAL Dialup 
access all over the WORLD> Any major city in any major country and you can 
find a local dial up connection for AOL.  The key word here is LOCAL. WIth 
a local connection in the U.S. I do not have to pay line charges for using 
the phone, as most residents have flat fee unmetered service. When 
traveling outs side of the U.S. and Canada, I will still be paying for a 
local connection rather than international rates.

Furthermore, once I have logged into AOL I am able to reach all of my POP3 
Accounts via TCP. What most people don't seem to realize is that when I am 
traveling. I use AOL as my connection to the internet.  It is cheap, 
reliable and readily available where few other U.S. services are. NOTE, I 
do NOT use it as my primary ISP. I have a cable modem, as well as a T1 at 
work. By using AOL when I travel I do not have to give up privacy as I 
would by using a net cafe or another person's computer. More, I can read 
and write e-mail in privacy, and transmit it directly from my laptop.

As to the advertising, AOL allows me to go into my preferences and turn off 
all advertising. So I don't get anymore than the login screen which I 
ignore, as it does not interfere with what I have to do in the least.

In regards to privacy, AOL is the only ISP where you can not track down the 
specific computer or region somebody posts from. If I wanted total 
anonymity, which for certain screen names I do, then all I need to do is 
make sure no posting, login or public e-mail contains personal or 
identifying information.  I maintain one specific account just for this 
purpose.

Any more responses, I will answer off list no matter how many respond. I 
just wanted to try and slow the flood to a trickle.

Oh, and please don't try and tell me about dial-up pops etc. As I said I 
have been in the industry over 20 years and keep up with the trends as par 
for the course.

Thanks

Larry


At 04:11 PM 8/26/01 -0500, James Young wrote:
>     Earthlink offers the same basic deal at several dollars less (I
>am paying only $21 USD), fewer ads (all of which you can get rid of,
>and I have), and better connection times over a 56K modem (I average
>43.9K-49.7K), plus a fairly good base amount of private webspace, up
>to 8 e-mail accounts per subscription, and unlimited usage of the
>lines.  I know a fair number of other accounts which offer similar
>things, all at better quality and price than AOL.
>     As for the anonymity, that is not really true, people can track
>you pretty easily on the net and find you without the company
>divulging anything.  And finally the greatest reason to not be part
>of AOhelL...they tend to funnel you to specific sites and play
>parent on the net.  I detest that.
>     But enough of this rant, I think that ISP wars should go the way
>of OS wars, i.e. the banned subjects list.
>
>-James (who left gateway.net when AOhelL bought it out)
>
> > I tend to agree with Chance here, if not the wording. I have been
>on the
> > net for the last 20 some odd years, starting with BBS' and on the
>inrernet
> > for the last 15 years (Started when I was at AT&T). And while I
>have
> > several connections both at home and work have always maintained
>anAOL
> > account. As far as I know they are the only service where I can
>get a POP
> > connection anywhere in the world, and also the only service where
>I can be
> > assured total anonymity (Short of a court order) when I need it.
>Since
> > Anon.penet.fi is dead, I am glad for that.
> >
> > Larry
> >
> > >OK listen I have had enough of people making fun of aol I have it
>and I am
> > >going to use it if you have a freaking problem oh well.
> > >                 Chance
> >



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Subject: Re: Magic Magic Magic
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*** EOOH ***
From: kuros@pgtv.net (kuros)
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Magic Magic Magic
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 23:15:54 -0700
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

If I remember correctly, when Gathas was chattering away about Sarag picking
a new avatar, and the scene where the statue's face is shifting (Rage of a
Demon King?), didn't Nakor say his face didn't show up because he knew there
was no magic? Pug's face did, however. That implies (at least to me) that
Pug follows a Path of magic, or several, but doesn't see beyond them like
Nakor.

Kuros
----- Original Message -----
>From: "Philippe Dufour" <toledes@hotmail.com>
>To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
>Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2001 8:34 PM
>Subject: Re: Magic Magic Magic
>
>
>>From: "Doug Triplett, Superhero in Training !!!" <trippy@dougtriplett.com>
>
>[...]
>>We know that magic for magicians is a matter of perspective. We have the
>>Greater Path, Lesser Path, Natural (abilities of the Elves, Valheru), and
>>Godly (priests, clerics), and those that do not follow any Path.
>
>[...]
>
>If I understand what Nakor always explains in the books, "there is no
>magic", only manipulation of the "stuff" that compose the universe.
>So, IMHO, a lesser path would manipulate the stuff, or cast a spell as he
>sees it, by using totems. A greater path, with incantation and symbols. And
>a priest, by praying to his god. Each has it's own way of casting the spell,
>but they're all basicaly manipulating the same stuff; they're all using the
>same "pool" of magic.
>
>Why, now, each path has weaknesses that the others don't have. I see it as
>psychological weaknesses. If I convince myself that I can't solve a math
>problem, I'll never be able to do it. As I see it, each path is convinced
>they cannot act outside what they defined as their limits...
>
>Following this, yes, I think anyone able to see beyond the Paths, like Nakor
>or Pug, can cast any spell they want, be it priestly or magic.
>
>Hope I said that right,
>Philippe Dufour
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Téléchargez MSN Explorer gratuitement à l'adresse
>http://explorer.msn.fr/intl.asp
>



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From: "Jason Martin" <res0b95g@verizon.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: HE arrived, but totally Bummed!
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 21:43:01 -0700
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Jason Martin" <res0b95g@verizon.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: HE arrived, but totally Bummed!
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 21:43:01 -0700
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Well just got back from a short vacation only to have HE arrive already!  It
took about a week to import it, so it was very fast in getting here.  Only
CRAPPY part was that it looks like the package and book sat in a damn lake
for a day.  I opened it up and the pages are still wet in the upper right
hand corner, and the back cover is very floppy!  Glad it got here, but
wished it would have taken another week instead so it could be in prestine
condition.  Not sure who to send a wordy letter too.  Buy anyhow I will
start reading this book very soon.

Bummed out,

Jason
"Mas Tequila!"
       Red Vodoo- Sammy Hagar



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Subject: Re: Magic Magic Magic
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*** EOOH ***
From: Brad_A_Krahe@allegiance.com.au
X-Lotus-FromDomain: HCS
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 14:54:17 +1000
Subject: Re: Magic Magic Magic
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

2 options............ maybe

(1)

Isn't Pug only now just starting to understand Nakor's statement of
"stuff". I thought (When using a priestly power, Pug that is) that he was
simply manipulating
"magic" he understands to mimic/mime ? what a priest could do (Pug hasn't
realized it as yet, last of his mental blocks ?.) which maybe crossing over
to the understanding of "stuff" or simply creating a new greater path spell
?

(2)

>didn't Nakor say his face didn't show up because he knew there was no
magic ?

But if Nakor is indeed a helper of some god which some people on the list
believe, he's face couldn't show up - because's he's already taken so to
speak ?

Also........

What about that magician who could cast healing spells, the one that was at
Crydee with Duke Martin's court ?? (Sketchy Memory) normally healing is a
priestly power so how does that work ?

Regards,

Brad





kuros@pgtv.net (kuros) on 27/08/2001 16:15:54
>
>Please respond to FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>
>To:   FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
>cc:    (bcc: Brad A Krahe/HCS)
>Subject:  Re: Magic Magic Magic
>
>
>
>
>If I remember correctly, when Gathas was chattering away about Sarag
>picking
>a new avatar, and the scene where the statue's face is shifting (Rage of a
>Demon King?), didn't Nakor say his face didn't show up because he knew
>there
>was no magic? Pug's face did, however. That implies (at least to me) that
>Pug follows a Path of magic, or several, but doesn't see beyond them like
>Nakor.
>
>Kuros
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Philippe Dufour" <toledes@hotmail.com>
>To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
>Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2001 8:34 PM
>Subject: Re: Magic Magic Magic
>
>
>>From: "Doug Triplett, Superhero in Training !!!" <trippy@dougtriplett.com>
>
>[...]
>>We know that magic for magicians is a matter of perspective. We have the
>>Greater Path, Lesser Path, Natural (abilities of the Elves, Valheru), and
>>Godly (priests, clerics), and those that do not follow any Path.
>
>[...]
>
>If I understand what Nakor always explains in the books, "there is no
>magic", only manipulation of the "stuff" that compose the universe.
>So, IMHO, a lesser path would manipulate the stuff, or cast a spell as he
>sees it, by using totems. A greater path, with incantation and symbols. And
>a priest, by praying to his god. Each has it's own way of casting the
>spell,
>but they're all basicaly manipulating the same stuff; they're all using the
>same "pool" of magic.
>
>Why, now, each path has weaknesses that the others don't have. I see it as
>psychological weaknesses. If I convince myself that I can't solve a math
>problem, I'll never be able to do it. As I see it, each path is convinced
>they cannot act outside what they defined as their limits...
>
>Following this, yes, I think anyone able to see beyond the Paths, like
>Nakor
>or Pug, can cast any spell they want, be it priestly or magic.
>
>Hope I said that right,
>Philippe Dufour

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Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 15:30:32 +1000 (EST)
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From: David Smith - NT Interoperability Engineer <David.M.Smith@Sun.COM>
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Subject: Re: HE arrived, but totally Bummed!
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 15:30:32 +1000 (EST)
From: David Smith - NT Interoperability Engineer <David.M.Smith@Sun.COM>
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: HE arrived, but totally Bummed!
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

» Well just got back from a short vacation only to have HE arrive already!  It
» took about a week to import it, so it was very fast in getting here.  Only
» CRAPPY part was that it looks like the package and book sat in a damn lake
» for a day.  I opened it up and the pages are still wet in the upper right
» hand corner, and the back cover is very floppy!  Glad it got here, but
» wished it would have taken another week instead so it could be in prestine
» condition.  Not sure who to send a wordy letter too.  Buy anyhow I will
» start reading this book very soon.
» 
» Bummed out,
» 
» Jason
» "Mas Tequila!"
»        Red Vodoo- Sammy Hagar

I take it you purchased it from Amazon.co.uk? I've always found Amazon to be 
very good with rectifying stuff-ups... so let 'em know, and they'll probably 
send you a replacement copy. You may have to send the bad one back, although 
last time I received a bad shipment from them (wrong books) they said not to 
bother and that I could just give them to charity.

-- David Smith



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From: John <john@crydee.com>
Subject: Re: HE arrived, but totally Bummed!
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 08:49:02 +0100
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From: John <john@crydee.com>
Subject: Re: HE arrived, but totally Bummed!
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David Smith - NT Interoperability Engineer <David.M.Smith@Sun.COM> 
writes
SNIP>
>I take it you purchased it from Amazon.co.uk? I've always found Amazon to be
>very good with rectifying stuff-ups... so let 'em know, and they'll probably
>send you a replacement copy. You may have to send the bad one back, although
>last time I received a bad shipment from them (wrong books) they said not to
>bother and that I could just give them to charity.

Same happened here, when I had one imported from the US. Only minor 
damage but they just told me to do what I liked with the book. The 
replacement arrived special delivery 2 days later
>

-- 
John

john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.

Raymond E Feist Ring
http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm



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References: <200108240037.f7O0bCR24072@smtp1.san.rr.com> <002001c12c53$1ee757b0$0100a8c0@dragon> <3B85E879.807708C5@yifan.net>
Subject: Re: Esperanto Translations of Mr. Feist's Works (going OT)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 21:33:44 +0930
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*** EOOH ***
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From: "Sonia Tabe" <sonia@nt-tech.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Esperanto Translations of Mr. Feist's Works (going OT)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 21:33:44 +0930
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----- Original Message -----
From: Craig J. Ries <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Friday, August 24, 2001 3:09 PM
Subject: Re: Esperanto Translations of Mr. Feist's Works (going OT)


> kuros wrote:
> >
> > Sorry, I should have mentioned that it was an artificial language. I took it
> > up because I wanted to learn another language, and this is a very easy one
> > to learn (but is by no means limited, it is just as versatile as any
> > national langauge), before I took on other languages currently residing on
> > my hit list.
>
> Ever watch Red Dwarf? One of the characters, Rimmer, tries to learn
> Esperanto during the first season... been trying to learn it for like
> years and still couldn't get it :)
>
> Craig J. Ries
>


I have to say I love Red Dwarf, and especially Rimmer! Sigh. He rocks.



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From: "Chris Smith" <cjs94@zepler.org.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 13:20:00 +0100
Subject: Re: Magic Magic Magic
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Chris Smith" <cjs94@zepler.org.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 13:20:00 +0100
Subject: Re: Magic Magic Magic
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On 26 Aug 2001, at 20:41, Doug Triplett, Superhero in Training !!! wrote:
<snip>
> We know that magic for magicians is a matter of perspective. We have the
> Greater Path, Lesser Path, Natural (abilities of the Elves, Valheru), and
> Godly (priests, clerics), and those that do not follow any Path.
> 
> Now we know that for Magicians, magic is both learned and Art. Lesser Paths
> seem to follow more of a system than Greater Path. Greater Path magicians
> seem go go with more of how the magic feels in its use.
> 
> The natural abilities speak for themselves. These are instinctive and part
> of the person.
> 
> The area I think we should look at is Godly Magic. We know that there is
> some fudging going on in the clerical area. Do you all think that anyone can
> use clerical magic? Or is a magic using cleric simply someine who could have
> been a magician but is following a different Path.
> 
> Examples:
> 
> When Pug and Dominic are captive on Kelwan. Dominic uses techniques that Pug
> is able to follow and understand.
<rest snipped>

I think the distinction between them is from which source they derive 
their magical powers, not how they achieve a given task using that 
power.

For example, if you were to ask Pug, Dominic and Kulgan to tighten a 
loose nut, they would probably all go and get a spanner. The way in 
which they all use their spanner would probably be the same, but the 
question is _where_ did they get it? Pug might get his spanner from 
Halfords, Dominic from B&Q and Kulgan from the local mechanic.

This would explain why Pug can follow Dominic's use of priestly 
magic, because once the power is obtained it makes no difference what 
techniques are used.

Did this make any sense at all? I'm not running on all four cylinders 
today, so I apologize if it didn't...

Chris

--
Chris Smith
Work: chris.smith@tfbplc.co.uk     Home: cjs94@zepler.org.uk
PGP Key available from public key servers; Key ID 0x8586B4B2
"Veni, vidi, velcro." - "I came, I saw, I stuck around."



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Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 09:26:40 EDT
Subject: HE name selection
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From: Jimmre@aol.com
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 09:26:40 EDT
Subject: HE name selection
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
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Hi all,
  Ray, I was wondering if it was considered to name
Honoured Enemy "Legends of the FIRST Riftwar" That 
would leave opening for other legend books within the 
other riftwars? Thanks in advance.


Jim



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From: "Sonia Tabe" <sonia@nt-tech.com.au>
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Subject: Book Signing
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 23:04:32 +0930
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*** EOOH ***
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From: "Sonia Tabe" <sonia@nt-tech.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Book Signing
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 23:04:32 +0930
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

A big hey howdy hey goes out to all list members. Although, that's not the
point of this message. May as well spread good cheer with it though.

I was a-wondering a-something. Mr Feist, IIRC, you said recently that you
weren't currently autographing books (very generous on your behalf, might I
add). I was hoping that perhaps you were settled in to your new abode that
you might consider signing our books again. I have a pristine copy of
Magician just begging to be signed... *pleading eyes* ... and I was
wondering if you were going to take up your offer again.

I'm sure lots of people are waiting on a cliff-hanging edge for you reply.
At least I am!

Sonia Tabe
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
Est Sularis Oth Mithas



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 07:14:46 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: HE name selection
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On Monday, August 27, 2001, at 06:26 AM, Jimmre@aol.com wrote:

> Hi all,
>   Ray, I was wondering if it was considered to name
> Honoured Enemy "Legends of the FIRST Riftwar" That
> would leave opening for other legend books within the
> other riftwars? Thanks in advance.
>
>
> Jim
>
>

Not really.  Hadn't thought of that.

So far the Riftwars are being renamed as I write about them (Serpentwar 
being the 2nd) so I imagine they'll be little confusion.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 07:15:43 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Book Signing
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Monday, August 27, 2001, at 06:34 AM, Sonia Tabe wrote:

> A big hey howdy hey goes out to all list members. Although, that's not 
> the
> point of this message. May as well spread good cheer with it though.
>
> I was a-wondering a-something. Mr Feist, IIRC, you said recently that 
> you
> weren't currently autographing books (very generous on your behalf, 
> might I
> add). I was hoping that perhaps you were settled in to your new abode 
> that
> you might consider signing our books again. I have a pristine copy of
> Magician just begging to be signed... *pleading eyes* ... and I was
> wondering if you were going to take up your offer again.
>
> I'm sure lots of people are waiting on a cliff-hanging edge for you 
> reply.
> At least I am!

Probably not any time soon.  I've got a couple of e-mails from people 
bitching about lost books, despite my disclaimer that I take no 
responsibility for books sent to me that don't come back.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Subject: Re: Book Signing
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*** EOOH ***
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: "Sonia Tabe" <sonia@nt-tech.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Book Signing
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 00:00:22 +0930
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Alrighty then. I can understand that. I mean, the book only cost about
$18.00 and it could be easily replaced (once it's been signed and then lost
is a different matter though!). But I do respect your descison, and I do
understand why you aren't exactly gung-ho about it all. I await the day with
great anticipation that you will once again sign books (if that day does
indeed come!)

~Sonia Tabe



----- Original Message -----
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Monday, August 27, 2001 11:45 PM
Subject: Re: Book Signing


>
> On Monday, August 27, 2001, at 06:34 AM, Sonia Tabe wrote:
>
> > A big hey howdy hey goes out to all list members. Although, that's not
> > the
> > point of this message. May as well spread good cheer with it though.
> >
> > I was a-wondering a-something. Mr Feist, IIRC, you said recently that
> > you
> > weren't currently autographing books (very generous on your behalf,
> > might I
> > add). I was hoping that perhaps you were settled in to your new abode
> > that
> > you might consider signing our books again. I have a pristine copy of
> > Magician just begging to be signed... *pleading eyes* ... and I was
> > wondering if you were going to take up your offer again.
> >
> > I'm sure lots of people are waiting on a cliff-hanging edge for you
> > reply.
> > At least I am!
>
> Probably not any time soon.  I've got a couple of e-mails from people
> bitching about lost books, despite my disclaimer that I take no
> responsibility for books sent to me that don't come back.
>
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
>
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
> stupidity.
>



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Subject: Re: Book Signing
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From: "C.T. Cusimano" <supert@redshift.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Book Signing
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 07:58:20 -0700
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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I lucked out got all my books sighned up to rise of a merchant prince in a
lil bookstore in berkeley and I was the only one there.  now I know why Mr.
Feist looked so annoyed at ym questions too I must of asked the most generic
questions that he has answered a million times.. especially the "More Janny
Wurts/tsuranni books question"
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sonia Tabe" <sonia@nt-tech.com.au>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Monday, August 27, 2001 7:30 AM
Subject: Re: Book Signing


> Alrighty then. I can understand that. I mean, the book only cost about
> $18.00 and it could be easily replaced (once it's been signed and then lost
> is a different matter though!). But I do respect your descison, and I do
> understand why you aren't exactly gung-ho about it all. I await the day with
> great anticipation that you will once again sign books (if that day does
> indeed come!)
>
> ~Sonia Tabe
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
> To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> Sent: Monday, August 27, 2001 11:45 PM
> Subject: Re: Book Signing
>
>
> >
> > On Monday, August 27, 2001, at 06:34 AM, Sonia Tabe wrote:
> >
> > > A big hey howdy hey goes out to all list members. Although, that's not
> > > the
> > > point of this message. May as well spread good cheer with it though.
> > >
> > > I was a-wondering a-something. Mr Feist, IIRC, you said recently that
> > > you
> > > weren't currently autographing books (very generous on your behalf,
> > > might I
> > > add). I was hoping that perhaps you were settled in to your new abode
> > > that
> > > you might consider signing our books again. I have a pristine copy of
> > > Magician just begging to be signed... *pleading eyes* ... and I was
> > > wondering if you were going to take up your offer again.
> > >
> > > I'm sure lots of people are waiting on a cliff-hanging edge for you
> > > reply.
> > > At least I am!
> >
> > Probably not any time soon.  I've got a couple of e-mails from people
> > bitching about lost books, despite my disclaimer that I take no
> > responsibility for books sent to me that don't come back.
> >
> > Best, R.E.F.
> > ----
> >
> > Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
> > stupidity.
> >
>



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I agree that this topic is getting to be a royal pain in the ass, however, I 
have no desire to read all these HTML and Aol off topic emails, so what I do 
is check off every subject line that holds no interest to me and click 
delete. This brings the list down to a more mangagable size and allows me to 
read only those emails that are feist related.

The only reason that I looked at this email was because it was a NEW 
subject, albeit, related to the previous one. I wanted to save any AOL 
related ones containing info on how to shut off the HTML for a friend of 
mine who uses AOL 6.0.

Adieu

Jimmy

>From: "Magnus Arvidsson" <magnus.arvidsson75@telia.com>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
>Subject: STOP IT was:AOL and HTML (OT)
>Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 23:26:36 +0200
>
>This is getting very close to being a I-will-unsubscribe-now causing 
>thread.
>It's not even remotely linked to Ray and his work. I could filter
>all of those participating in the thread, but I would be sorry later on
>when discussions turn to more Ray-related topics. People unsubscribes
>a lot these days and I do not blame them.
>
>Take this thread off this list. Send further comments in private. I'm at
>the very end of my patience (as if that would count or make anyone care
><G>).
>
>Magnus out--
>
> >     Earthlink offers the same basic deal at several dollars less (I
> > am paying only $21 USD), fewer ads (all of which you can get rid of,
> > and I have), and better connection times over a 56K modem (I average
> > 43.9K-49.7K), plus a fairly good base amount of private webspace, up
> > to 8 e-mail accounts per subscription, and unlimited usage of the
> > lines.  I know a fair number of other accounts which offer similar
> > things, all at better quality and price than AOL.
> >     As for the anonymity, that is not really true, people can track
> > you pretty easily on the net and find you without the company
> > divulging anything.  And finally the greatest reason to not be part
> > of AOhelL...they tend to funnel you to specific sites and play
> > parent on the net.  I detest that.
> >     But enough of this rant, I think that ISP wars should go the way
> > of OS wars, i.e. the banned subjects list.
> >
> > -James (who left gateway.net when AOhelL bought it out)
> >
> > > I tend to agree with Chance here, if not the wording. I have been
> > on the
> > > net for the last 20 some odd years, starting with BBS' and on the
> > inrernet
> > > for the last 15 years (Started when I was at AT&T). And while I
> > have
> > > several connections both at home and work have always maintained
> > anAOL
> > > account. As far as I know they are the only service where I can
> > get a POP
> > > connection anywhere in the world, and also the only service where
> > I can be
> > > assured total anonymity (Short of a court order) when I need it.
> > Since
> > > Anon.penet.fi is dead, I am glad for that.
> > >
> > > Larry
> > >
> > > >OK listen I have had enough of people making fun of aol I have it
> > and I am
> > > >going to use it if you have a freaking problem oh well.
> > > >                 Chance
> > >
> >
>


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp



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From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Magic Magic Magic
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 12:31:46 -0400
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From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Magic Magic Magic
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 12:31:46 -0400
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The only thoughts I can give you on the subject (and this rlates to your 
example hypothesising that Reikki may be considered Psionics more than 
Magic) is that I believe that Psionics would also fall under the general 
heading of "Magic and/or Stuff."

The reason why I would say so is that Gamina and William both have Psionic 
powers and they both study at Stardock.

Of course, I could be totally off the mark as well.

Adieu

Jimmy



>From: "Doug Triplett, Superhero in Training !!!" <trippy@dougtriplett.com>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
>Subject: Magic Magic Magic
>Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 20:41:14 -0400
>
>Ok I'll give you all an ON TOPIC (*looks at the gasps from the crowd*)
>subject to chew.
>
>We know that magic for magicians is a matter of perspective. We have the
>Greater Path, Lesser Path, Natural (abilities of the Elves, Valheru), and
>Godly (priests, clerics), and those that do not follow any Path.
>
>Now we know that for Magicians, magic is both learned and Art. Lesser Paths
>seem to follow more of a system than Greater Path. Greater Path magicians
>seem go go with more of how the magic feels in its use.
>
>The natural abilities speak for themselves. These are instinctive and part
>of the person.
>
>The area I think we should look at is Godly Magic. We know that there is
>some fudging going on in the clerical area. Do you all think that anyone 
>can
>use clerical magic? Or is a magic using cleric simply someine who could 
>have
>been a magician but is following a different Path.
>
>Examples:
>
>When Pug and Dominic are captive on Kelwan. Dominic uses techniques that 
>Pug
>is able to follow and understand.
>
>In the seperent War Saga, the use of Reiki by the characters. (Although 
>this
>may fall under psionics more than magic).
>
>Well there are some thoughts to get us started. Fire Away.
>
>Doug Triplett
>
>PS. I should have the HTML fixed now since I messed it up on my last
>reinstall. If I didnt email me OFF LIST.
>
>Trippy@dougtriplett.com
>
>Thanks.
>


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp



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From: KARL SIMONIAN <karlsimonian@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Book Signing
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 13:21:24 -0700 (PDT)
From: KARL SIMONIAN <karlsimonian@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Book Signing
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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--- Sonia Tabe <sonia@nt-tech.com.au> wrote:
> Alrighty then. I can understand that. I mean, the
> book only cost about
> $18.00 and it could be easily replaced (once it's
> been signed and then lost
> is a different matter though).

Sonia,

Are you saying your pristine copy of MAGICIAN only
cost $18 AND is easily replaceable?
Where do I get my copy?

Karl



__________________________________________________
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From: "Jason Martin" <res0b95g@verizon.net>
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Subject: OH Yea!
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 13:36:25 -0700
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Jason Martin" <res0b95g@verizon.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: OH Yea!
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 13:36:25 -0700
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

    Wow, I'm totally impressed by Amazon.uk and how fast they respond.  For
those that don't know I imported HE and got it.  But in the process of
shipping it looked like it fell in a puddle and was severly wet and ruined
when I got it.   Amazon.uk just informed that they will be shipping a new
one within the next day or so at no charge. I'm totally impressed by how
fast they responded to my email and that they are going to replace the book.
Personally I don't feel it was their fault, but the carriers fault (royal
air, or USPS) for the condition it was in.
    My current copy of it is still readable, and let me just say I'm about
100 pages into it and I am totally loving it.  I

Jason


"Mas Tequila!"
       Red Vodoo- Sammy Hagar



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Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 16:40:40 EDT
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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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*** EOOH ***
From: Valheru89@aol.com
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 16:40:40 EDT
Subject: Re: AOL and HTML
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

In a message dated 8/26/2001 1:21:11 PM Pacific Daylight Time, 
lds627@home.com writes:


> I tend to agree with Chance here, if not the wording. I have been on the 
> net for the last 20 some odd years, starting with BBS' and on the inrernet 
> for the last 15 years (Started when I was at AT&T). And while I have 
> several connections both at home and work have always maintained anAOL 
> account. As far as I know they are the only service where I can get a POP 
> connection anywhere in the world, and also the only service where I can be 
> assured total anonymity (Short of a court order) when I need it. Since 
> Anon.penet.fi is dead, I am glad for that.
> 
> Larry
> 

Thank you very much Larry.

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*** EOOH ***
From: Valheru89@aol.com
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 16:42:10 EDT
Subject: Re: AOL and HTML (OT)
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

In a message dated 8/26/2001 2:26:08 PM Pacific Daylight Time, 
jajy@earthlink.net writes:


> 
>     Earthlink offers the same basic deal at several dollars less (I
> am paying only $21 USD), fewer ads (all of which you can get rid of,
> and I have), and better connection times over a 56K modem (I average
> 43.9K-49.7K), plus a fairly good base amount of private webspace, up
> to 8 e-mail accounts per subscription, and unlimited usage of the
> lines.  I know a fair number of other accounts which offer similar
> things, all at better quality and price than AOL.
>     As for the anonymity, that is not really true, people can track
> you pretty easily on the net and find you without the company
> divulging anything.  And finally the greatest reason to not be part
> of AOhelL...they tend to funnel you to specific sites and play
> parent on the net.  I detest that.
>     But enough of this rant, I think that ISP wars should go the way
> of OS wars, i.e. the banned subjects list.
> 

Yea but all my friends are on AOL and so I like to keep it.

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From: "Donna M. Jaggard" <donna@arwen.org>
Organization: arwen.org
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 13:40:02 -0700
Subject: Re: OH Yea!
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Donna M. Jaggard" <donna@arwen.org>
Organization: arwen.org
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 13:40:02 -0700
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>     Wow, I'm totally impressed by Amazon.uk and how fast they respond.

Yes -- Amazon is one of the online stores that really *does* try to 
keep their customers happy. They recently credited me 9 pounds 
(about $20 CDN) when I ordered HE the day before it went on sale 
half price. Yay them!

On a slightly rleated note, ThinkGeek (www.thinkgeek.com) is also 
wonderful for that -- they accidently sent me a nifty pilsner glass 
instead of the travel mug I ordered. Now I get to keep the pilsner 
glass for free, and got the travel mug as well on Saturday. :)

And people wonder why I like making online purchases. If I'd 
bought this stuff locally, I'd never get this stuff to happen. :) 

-d

--
Donna M. Jaggard   |   http://www.arwen.org/
donna@arwen.org    |   http://www.web-goddess.net/
"I stopped believing in Santa Claus when my mother took 
me to see him in a department store, and he asked for my 
autograph."                            -- Shirley Temple 



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From: John <john@crydee.com>
Subject: Re: Book Signing
References: <035301c12f04$ceed08e0$4785fea9@Sonia>
 <20010827202124.25449.qmail@web20203.mail.yahoo.com>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 21:45:29 +0100
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Subject: Re: Book Signing
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KARL SIMONIAN <karlsimonian@yahoo.com> writes
>
>Are you saying your pristine copy of MAGICIAN only
>cost $18 AND is easily replaceable?
>Where do I get my copy?
>
>Karl
>

Sonia means an Australian Paperback in Australian Dollars , about $9US
-- 
John

john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.

Raymond E Feist Ring
http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm



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From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Magic Magic Magic
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Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 07:38:49 +1000 (GMT+1000)
From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Magic Magic Magic
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> <snip>
> > We know that magic for magicians is a matter of perspective. We have the
> > Greater Path, Lesser Path, Natural (abilities of the Elves, Valheru), and
> > Godly (priests, clerics), and those that do not follow any Path.
> >
> > Now we know that for Magicians, magic is both learned and Art. Lesser Paths
> > seem to follow more of a system than Greater Path. Greater Path magicians
> > seem go go with more of how the magic feels in its use.
> >
> > The natural abilities speak for themselves. These are instinctive and part
> > of the person.
> >
> > The area I think we should look at is Godly Magic. We know that there is
> > some fudging going on in the clerical area. Do you all think that anyone can
> > use clerical magic? Or is a magic using cleric simply someine who could have
> > been a magician but is following a different Path.
> >
> > Examples:
> > When Pug and Dominic are captive on Kelwan. Dominic uses techniques that Pug
> > is able to follow and understand.
> <rest snipped>
>
> I think the distinction between them is from which source they derive
> their magical powers, not how they achieve a given task using that
> power.
>
> For example, if you were to ask Pug, Dominic and Kulgan to tighten a
> loose nut, they would probably all go and get a spanner. The way in
> which they all use their spanner would probably be the same, but the
> question is _where_ did they get it? Pug might get his spanner from
> Halfords, Dominic from B&Q and Kulgan from the local mechanic.
>
> This would explain why Pug can follow Dominic's use of priestly
> magic, because once the power is obtained it makes no difference what
> techniques are used.
>
> Did this make any sense at all? I'm not running on all four cylinders
> today, so I apologize if it didn't...
> Chris


As I understand it, magic in Ray's world is explained in the form of a
"prayer" to the gods. Clerics pray to their god to provide them with
"magic", to cast a spell.

Magician's do the same, but to Sarig. However, this is just not called
"Clerical magic"

Thanks
Darragh
-=-=
www.iamtheporkfireman.com
[Email]: s356179@student.uq.edu.au [ICQ]: 114283262



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From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Book Signing
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 07:41:00 +1000 (GMT+1000)
From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
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> --- Sonia Tabe <sonia@nt-tech.com.au> wrote:
> > Alrighty then. I can understand that. I mean, the
> > book only cost about
> > $18.00 and it could be easily replaced (once it's
> > been signed and then lost
> > is a different matter though).
>
> Sonia,
>
> Are you saying your pristine copy of MAGICIAN only
> cost $18 AND is easily replaceable?
> Where do I get my copy?
>
> Karl

I think she is referring to a generic paperback of Magician. Not a
Hardcover, first edition etc etc

Thanks
Darragh
-=-=
www.iamtheporkfireman.com
[Email]: s356179@student.uq.edu.au [ICQ]: 114283262



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Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 18:23:11 -0600
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 18:23:11 -0600
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: feistfans-l@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: lesser races of Midkemia
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In the books for the first Riftwar, races such as the gnomes & gwali are
mentioned. I'm just curious as to whether or not these races are
mentioned again at all later on.

Also, is there any other fantasy world that considers gnomes & kobolds
to be one and the same? I was surprised by that reference when reading
the first few Riftwar books...

Craig J. Ries



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Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 19:20:20 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: lesser races of Midkemia
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On Monday, August 27, 2001, at 05:23 PM, Craig J. Ries wrote:

> In the books for the first Riftwar, races such as the gnomes & gwali are
> mentioned. I'm just curious as to whether or not these races are
> mentioned again at all later on.
>
> Also, is there any other fantasy world that considers gnomes & kobolds
> to be one and the same? I was surprised by that reference when reading
> the first few Riftwar books...
>
> Craig J. Ries
>
>

It depends.  They're the sort of thing that tends to be story specific.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 12:34:09 +1000
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Scott Nimmo <snimmo@connect.com.au>
Subject: Re: lesser races of Midkemia
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At 10:23 AM 28/08/2001 , you wrote:
>In the books for the first Riftwar, races such as the gnomes & gwali are
>mentioned. I'm just curious as to whether or not these races are
>mentioned again at all later on.
>
>Also, is there any other fantasy world that considers gnomes & kobolds
>to be one and the same? I was surprised by that reference when reading
>the first few Riftwar books...

In my own D&D campaign world gnomes and kobolds are related like elves and
drow are. eg. eledhel and moredhel.

regards,


Scott



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Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 14:13:01 +1000
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Scott Nimmo <snimmo@connect.com.au>
Subject: Languages in Midkemia (relating to Tolkien).
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Something I am sure has been discussed.

Looking
Edhel means "Elves of the Eldar" in Quenya or Sindarin
Mor- seems to be a pronoun for "dark" in Sindarin
We could assume then that moredhel means "Dark Elves of the Eldar"

There is a Sindarin word glam "din, uproar, the confused yelling and bellowing of beasts".
Glam could also be corrupted to "forsaken" eg. Eglamar "Land of the Forsaken Elves"
So does that mean that the glamedhel might be "Forsaken Elves of the Eldar" or is the
basic interpretation of "glam" that they are obviously crazy in the coconuts. ;-)

I prefer the idea that the glamedhel were the forsaken, who fled the Valheru and
later reverted to a primitive state, which has since corrupted the meaning of the word.

Lets look at Valheru. In Sindar "heru" is the plural of "haru" which means "wound".
"Val" seems to be a corruption of "Bal". Looking at Balrog, means " Demon of Might";
rog means "demon", thus Bal means "mighty". Leaving "Val" a word similar to "Mighty".
I could conclude that Valheru means something like "Mighty Wound" that relate to their
origin (where they the "sap" or "blood" of the multiverse? ;)

Do we have any idea of what languages there are in midkemia?
With the introduction of various races via Rifts there are probably only a few
root languages.

I wonder whether the Valheru had their own tongue from the elves as an addition way to
hold their power (and support their egos).
I would expect that each race that was created by a particular Valheru would have their
own language to limit potential influences by other Valheru.

regards,
Scott



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Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 21:26:19 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
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Subject: Re: Languages in Midkemia (relating to Tolkien).
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On Monday, August 27, 2001, at 09:13 PM, Scott Nimmo wrote:

> Something I am sure has been discussed.
>
> Looking
> Edhel means "Elves of the Eldar" in Quenya or Sindarin
> Mor- seems to be a pronoun for "dark" in Sindarin
> We could assume then that moredhel means "Dark Elves of the Eldar"
>
> There is a Sindarin word glam "din, uproar, the confused yelling and 
> bellowing of beasts".
> Glam could also be corrupted to "forsaken" eg. Eglamar "Land of the 
> Forsaken Elves"
> So does that mean that the glamedhel might be "Forsaken Elves of the 
> Eldar" or is the
> basic interpretation of "glam" that they are obviously crazy in the 
> coconuts. ;-)
>
> I prefer the idea that the glamedhel were the forsaken, who fled the 
> Valheru and
> later reverted to a primitive state, which has since corrupted the 
> meaning of the word.
>
> Lets look at Valheru. In Sindar "heru" is the plural of "haru" which 
> means "wound".
> "Val" seems to be a corruption of "Bal". Looking at Balrog, means " 
> Demon of Might";
> rog means "demon", thus Bal means "mighty". Leaving "Val" a word 
> similar to "Mighty".
> I could conclude that Valheru means something like "Mighty Wound" that 
> relate to their
> origin (where they the "sap" or "blood" of the multiverse? ;)
>
> Do we have any idea of what languages there are in midkemia?
> With the introduction of various races via Rifts there are probably 
> only a few
> root languages.
>
> I wonder whether the Valheru had their own tongue from the elves as an 
> addition way to
> hold their power (and support their egos).
> I would expect that each race that was created by a particular Valheru 
> would have their
> own language to limit potential influences by other Valheru.
>
> regards,
> Scott
>
>

The root edhel means "elf," with el = light, mor = dark, and glam = 
mad.  Valheru means "Power Lord," actually, or Mighty Lord.

I borrowed those from Tolkien as a "tip of the hat" to the old man.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Subject: Re: Languages in Midkemia (relating to Tolkien).
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Please forgive my infinite ignorance, Scott, but where are you borrowing
this stuff from?  What languages/other writers' works are you borrowing
these language ideas from?  I though it's was well-thought out, regardless
of what they actually mean.

If you could elaborate of Quenya and Sindarin, that woudl be great!

*-) Firesight *-)



----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Nimmo" <snimmo@connect.com.au>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2001 1:13 AM
Subject: Languages in Midkemia (relating to Tolkien).


> Something I am sure has been discussed.
>
> Looking
> Edhel means "Elves of the Eldar" in Quenya or Sindarin
> Mor- seems to be a pronoun for "dark" in Sindarin
> We could assume then that moredhel means "Dark Elves of the Eldar"
>
> There is a Sindarin word glam "din, uproar, the confused yelling and bellowing of beasts".
> Glam could also be corrupted to "forsaken" eg. Eglamar "Land of the Forsaken Elves"
> So does that mean that the glamedhel might be "Forsaken Elves of the Eldar" or is the
> basic interpretation of "glam" that they are obviously crazy in the coconuts. ;-)
>
> I prefer the idea that the glamedhel were the forsaken, who fled the Valheru and
> later reverted to a primitive state, which has since corrupted the meaning of the word.
>
> Lets look at Valheru. In Sindar "heru" is the plural of "haru" which means "wound".
> "Val" seems to be a corruption of "Bal". Looking at Balrog, means " Demon of Might";
> rog means "demon", thus Bal means "mighty". Leaving "Val" a word similar to "Mighty".
> I could conclude that Valheru means something like "Mighty Wound" that relate to their
> origin (where they the "sap" or "blood" of the multiverse? ;)
>
> Do we have any idea of what languages there are in midkemia?
> With the introduction of various races via Rifts there are probably only a few
> root languages.
>
> I wonder whether the Valheru had their own tongue from the elves as an addition way to
> hold their power (and support their egos).
> I would expect that each race that was created by a particular Valheru would have their
> own language to limit potential influences by other Valheru.
>
> regards,
> Scott
>
>



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From: "Jason Mulligan" <sulimo@bigpond.net.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On 28/08/2001 at 8:25 AM Firesight wrote:

>Please forgive my infinite ignorance, Scott, but where are you borrowing
>this stuff from?  What languages/other writers' works are you borrowing
>these language ideas from?  I though it's was well-thought out, regardless
>of what they actually mean.
>
>If you could elaborate of Quenya and Sindarin, that woudl be great!

Quenya and Sindarin are both languages that J.R.R. Tolkien created.




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From: "Donal K. Fellows" <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
In-reply-to: <p04310100b7aded7d1d4b@[192.168.0.2]> (message from Anestis
	Kozakis on Sun, 26 Aug 2001 10:14:49 +1000)
Subject: Re: REMINDER: *NO* HTML and only *relevant* quoting
References: <NGELLDNAEMBGGGHFAJPBCEOMCHAA.gibbyfish@yahoo.com>
 <001a01c12c6a$98f5ddd0$3490180a@chronos>
 <007101c12d06$31be66e0$0100a8c0@dragon>
 <002001c12d3a$6972aa40$a75b2dcb@nakor>
 <001d01c12d18$447b2270$3490180a@chronos> <p04310100b7aded7d1d4b@[192.168.0.2]>
Message-Id: <E15bhoS-0002qS-00@athene>
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 13:17:48 +0100
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Donal K. Fellows" <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: REMINDER: *NO* HTML and only *relevant* quoting
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 13:17:48 +0100
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Anestis Kozakis <kenosti@labyrinth.net.au>
> HTML/Rich text E-Mail is frowned upon for the following reasons :
[...]
> The above are reasons why HTML E-Mail is frowned upon.

My (non-bandwidth) objections are simpler:

1) it possible for HTML to be used non-intrusively in email to greatly
   enhance people's understanding of the message[*] without badly
   intruding on everyone else, but it is virtually never used like
   that, especially so on this list.  (HTML is not WYSIWYG.  Not even
   when both sides are using the same client software.  Trust me on
   this...)

2) I archive the list, and stripping HTML takes more time than I'd
   like to spend on the matter (experience tells me that doing this
   using a simple script would not work; too many bizarre formatting
   problems get introduced.)

Hardly any messages on this list require HTML; plain text (using a
monospace font like Courier) is surprisingly expressive.  And using it
gets you on *my* good side.  <g>

Donal (finally got his copy of HE...)
[* Chiefly through links to related resources. ]
-- 
Donal K. Fellows, Department of Computer Science, University of Manchester, UK.
(work) fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk     Tel: +44-161-275-6137  (preferred email addr.)
(home) donal@ugglan.demon.co.uk  Tel: +44-1274-401017   Mobile: +44-7957-298955
http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~fellowsd/  (Don't quote my .sig; I've seen it before!)



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From: "Magnus Arvidsson" <magnus.arvidsson75@telia.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
References: <NGELLDNAEMBGGGHFAJPBCEOMCHAA.gibbyfish@yahoo.com><001a01c12c6a$98f5ddd0$3490180a@chronos><007101c12d06$31be66e0$0100a8c0@dragon><002001c12d3a$6972aa40$a75b2dcb@nakor><001d01c12d18$447b2270$3490180a@chronos> <p04310100b7aded7d1d4b@[192.168.0.2]> <E15bhoS-0002qS-00@athene>
Subject: Re: REMINDER: *NO* HTML and only *relevant* quoting
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 15:20:06 +0200
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Magnus Arvidsson" <magnus.arvidsson75@telia.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: REMINDER: *NO* HTML and only *relevant* quoting
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 15:20:06 +0200
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I find myself breaking my own rules when I
respond to one of these posts concerning HTML but what am I to do? <g>.
I objected to having to read/delete these every single day
but it seems as if some people are just plain thick/dense or just
ignorant... Hard words, I know, but please SEND PRIVATE
RESPONSES to these TROLL-Posts. Man, I get so annoyed.

Magnus out

> Anestis Kozakis <kenosti@labyrinth.net.au>
> > HTML/Rich text E-Mail is frowned upon for the following reasons :
> [...]
> > The above are reasons why HTML E-Mail is frowned upon.
>
> My (non-bandwidth) objections are simpler:
>
> 1) it possible for HTML to be used non-intrusively in email to greatly
>    enhance people's understanding of the message[*] without badly
>    intruding on everyone else, but it is virtually never used like
>    that, especially so on this list.  (HTML is not WYSIWYG.  Not even
>    when both sides are using the same client software.  Trust me on
>    this...)
>
> 2) I archive the list, and stripping HTML takes more time than I'd
>    like to spend on the matter (experience tells me that doing this
>    using a simple script would not work; too many bizarre formatting
>    problems get introduced.)
>
> Hardly any messages on this list require HTML; plain text (using a
> monospace font like Courier) is surprisingly expressive.  And using it
> gets you on *my* good side.  <g>
>
> Donal (finally got his copy of HE...)
> [* Chiefly through links to related resources. ]
> --




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From: "Sonia Tabe" <sonia@nt-tech.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
References: <Pine.OSF.4.30.0108280740290.11970-100000@student.uq.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Book Signing
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 22:50:47 +0930
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*** EOOH ***
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: "Sonia Tabe" <sonia@nt-tech.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Book Signing
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 22:50:47 +0930
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


----- Original Message ----- 
From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2001 7:11 AM
Subject: Re: Book Signing


> > --- Sonia Tabe <sonia@nt-tech.com.au> wrote:
> > > Alrighty then. I can understand that. I mean, the
> > > book only cost about
> > > $18.00 and it could be easily replaced (once it's
> > > been signed and then lost
> > > is a different matter though).
> >
> > Sonia,
> >
> > Are you saying your pristine copy of MAGICIAN only
> > cost $18 AND is easily replaceable?
> > Where do I get my copy?
> >
> > Karl
> 
> I think she is referring to a generic paperback of Magician. Not a
> Hardcover, first edition etc etc
> 
> Thanks
> Darragh
> -=-=
> www.iamtheporkfireman.com
> [Email]: s356179@student.uq.edu.au [ICQ]: 114283262
> 

Unfortunately, that is what I do mean. Such a pity.



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From: "Mark Tonkin" <shadowfire@chariot.net.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
References: <035301c12f04$ceed08e0$4785fea9@Sonia> <20010827202124.25449.qmail@web20203.mail.yahoo.com> <FTYbtjGpFri7EwV+@cableinet.co.uk>
Subject: Book Prices (Re: Book Signing)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 22:59:52 +0930
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Mark Tonkin" <shadowfire@chariot.net.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Book Prices (Re: Book Signing)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 22:59:52 +0930
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

----- Original Message -----
From: "John" <john@crydee.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2001 6:15 AM
Subject: Re: Book Signing


> KARL SIMONIAN <karlsimonian@yahoo.com> writes
> >
> >Are you saying your pristine copy of MAGICIAN only
> >cost $18 AND is easily replaceable?
> >Where do I get my copy?
> >
> >Karl
> >
>
> Sonia means an Australian Paperback in Australian Dollars , about $9US
> --
> John
>

The Australian paperback of Magician currently has a Recommended Retail
Price of AU$18.95.  You can however buy it at 25% off at Target, and a
similar amount at Kmart (or wait until they have 15% off everything in store
and save even more :-).

On a similar topic, for those of you who don't currently own Shards of a
Broken Crown (or who want to collect it), Angus and Robertson are currently
selling off the Hardback for AU$9.95 (Approx US$5).  You can order it off
the net from http://www.bookworld.com.au, or I've seen it at several of
their stores here in Adelaide.  Of course you could still buy the little
paperback for an extra nine dollars ...

- MARK



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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Al Solo <solo.nova@btinternet.com>
Subject: The Returning (HE spoilers, possible KtB & Serpentwar spoilers)
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 15:23:14 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Al Solo <solo.nova@btinternet.com>
Subject: The Returning (HE spoilers, possible KtB & Serpentwar spoilers)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Spoiler Space
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
We know that a Moredhel can "Return" to Elvandar and become an Eledhel, but 
can it work the other way around? Is it possible for an elf to be cast out 
of Elvandar? And if so, would they be accepted by the Moredhel, or would 
they be rejected as tainted blood?

Perhaps a little trivial, but I was just curious after reading about 
Tinuva/Morvai's returning.

Al



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Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 07:46:37 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
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On Tuesday, August 28, 2001, at 07:23 AM, Al Solo wrote:

> Spoiler Space
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> We know that a Moredhel can "Return" to Elvandar and become an Eledhel, 
> but can it work the other way around? Is it possible for an elf to be 
> cast out of Elvandar? And if so, would they be accepted by the 
> Moredhel, or would they be rejected as tainted blood?

No, because the elves are the most "natural" state of their race.

Best, R.E.F.

----



Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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References: <4.2.0.58.20010828123301.03183f10@koro.off.connect.com.au> <OE32nlzmUR7BED0kpB9000054d9@hotmail.com> <200108282208400030.02E446AA@mail-hub>
Subject: Re: Languages in Midkemia (relating to Tolkien).
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 12:50:21 -0300
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From: "Firesight" <wolfriderfiresight@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re: Languages in Midkemia (relating to Tolkien).
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THank you.  Again, forgive my infinite ignorance.

*-) Firesight *-)

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jason Mulligan" <sulimo@bigpond.net.au>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2001 9:08 AM
Subject: Re: Languages in Midkemia (relating to Tolkien).


> On 28/08/2001 at 8:25 AM Firesight wrote:
>
> >Please forgive my infinite ignorance, Scott, but where are you borrowing
> >this stuff from?  What languages/other writers' works are you borrowing
> >these language ideas from?  I though it's was well-thought out, regardless
> >of what they actually mean.
> >
> >If you could elaborate of Quenya and Sindarin, that woudl be great!
>
> Quenya and Sindarin are both languages that J.R.R. Tolkien created.
>
>
>



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 10:24:02 -0600
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
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Magnus Arvidsson wrote:
> 
> I find myself breaking my own rules when I
> respond to one of these posts concerning HTML but what am I to do?

Stop replying to them? :P

Craig J. Ries



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From: "Chris Smith" <cjs94@zepler.org.uk>
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Chris Smith" <cjs94@zepler.org.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 19:34:48 +0100
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S
p
o
i
l
e
r
S
p
a
c
e
S
p
o
i
l
e
r
S
p
a
c
e

On 28 Aug 2001, at 7:38, Darragh Murray wrote:
> As I understand it, magic in Ray's world is explained in the form of a
> "prayer" to the gods. Clerics pray to their god to provide them with
> "magic", to cast a spell.
> 
> Magician's do the same, but to Sarig. However, this is just not called
> "Clerical magic"

I was under the impression that (until the events witnessed in recent 
books) magicians didn't know they _had_ a god or, if they did, 
believed him dead.

So, if they were praying for their magic, who were they praying to?

Chris
--
Chris Smith
Work: chris.smith@tfbplc.co.uk     Home: cjs94@zepler.org.uk
PGP Key available from public key servers; Key ID 0x8586B4B2
"Veni, vidi, velcro." - "I came, I saw, I stuck around."



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Subject: RE: Magic Magic Magic
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From: "Michael Gibson" <gibfish@gibbyco.freeserve.co.uk>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Magic Magic Magic
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>
>
> S
> p
> o
> i
> l
> e
> r
> S
> p
> a
> c
> e
> S
> p
> o
> i
> l
> e
> r
> S
> p
> a
> c
> e
>
> On 28 Aug 2001, at 7:38, Darragh Murray wrote:
> > As I understand it, magic in Ray's world is explained in the form of a
> > "prayer" to the gods. Clerics pray to their god to provide them with
> > "magic", to cast a spell.
> >
> > Magician's do the same, but to Sarig. However, this is just not called
> > "Clerical magic"
>
> I was under the impression that (until the events witnessed in recent
> books) magicians didn't know they _had_ a god or, if they did,
> believed him dead.
>
> So, if they were praying for their magic, who were they praying to?

I always thought magicians directly manipulated "stuff", using an array of
focuses (like lesser path magicians use external focuses).

Mike,
Gibfish of the West.
                                          Check out my forums at:
"If a problem appears simple, then it     http://www.tonrae.co.uk/forums/
probably hasn't been thought through."



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*** EOOH ***
From: Valheru89@aol.com
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 16:35:05 EDT
Subject: (no subject)
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Hey if you all have noticed me and sam having a fight (sorry magnus for 
wasting your time with them) I took it off and made it a privite thing. By 
the way Ray I was wondering if you had any games in thought for say sony or 
the new game cube maybe. Also I was wondering if you would ever put Tomas in 
a game or Pug.


              Chance

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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 22:15:19 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Sam Bridger <sam@samyool.freeserve.co.uk>
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At 16:35 28/08/01 -0400, you wrote:
>Hey if you all have noticed me and sam having a fight

Doh. It was by private mail not on the list. Nice of you to notify the 
group that we're "fighting", however, when I'd like to call it remote 
technical support :-)

[aside] Someone, please send this chap some detailed, step-by-step, 
any-fool-can-do-this instructions for disabling HTML mail. I can no longer 
help, it seems.



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Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 07:35:00 +1000 (GMT+1000)
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From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Magic Magic Magic
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 07:35:00 +1000 (GMT+1000)
From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Magic Magic Magic
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


> S
> p
> o
> i
> l
> e
> r
> S
> p
> a
> c
> e
> S
> p
> o
> i
> l
> e
> r
> S
> p
> a
> c
> e
>
> On 28 Aug 2001, at 7:38, Darragh Murray wrote:
> > As I understand it, magic in Ray's world is explained in the form of a
> > "prayer" to the gods. Clerics pray to their god to provide them with
> > "magic", to cast a spell.
> > Magician's do the same, but to Sarig. However, this is just not called
> > "Clerical magic"
> I was under the impression that (until the events witnessed in recent
> books) magicians didn't know they _had_ a god or, if they did,
> believed him dead.
> So, if they were praying for their magic, who were they praying to?
> Chris

Well, and this is only my intepretation, that they don't know. However, it
doesn't change the fact that it is a "pseudo-prayer" to Sarig.

Maybe Ray can clear this up?:)

P.S I pity anyone who has to do an IT degree, its very tiring:)

Thanks
Darragh
-=-=
www.iamtheporkfireman.com
[Email]: s356179@student.uq.edu.au [ICQ]: 114283262



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From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 07:37:06 +1000 (GMT+1000)
From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: (no subject)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


> Hey if you all have noticed me and sam having a fight (sorry magnus for
> wasting your time with them) I took it off and made it a privite thing. By
> the way Ray I was wondering if you had any games in thought for say sony or
> the new game cube maybe. Also I was wondering if you would ever put Tomas in
> a game or Pug.
>

Pug and tomas are in BaK. You get to play as Pug as well.

Thanks
Darragh
-=-=
www.iamtheporkfireman.com
[Email]: s356179@student.uq.edu.au [ICQ]: 114283262



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Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 07:36:25 +1000 (GMT+1000)
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From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Magic Magic Magic [spoilers - RODK]
In-Reply-To: <NGELLDNAEMBGGGHFAJPBMEPOCHAA.gibfish@gibbyco.freeserve.co.uk>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 07:36:25 +1000 (GMT+1000)
From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Magic Magic Magic [spoilers - RODK]
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

> >
> > S
> > p
> > o
> > i
> > l
> > e
> > r
> > S
> > p
> > a
> > c
> > e
> > S
> > p
> > o
> > i
> > l
> > e
> > r
> > S
> > p
> > a
> > c
> > e
> >
> > On 28 Aug 2001, at 7:38, Darragh Murray wrote:
> > > As I understand it, magic in Ray's world is explained in the form of a
> > > "prayer" to the gods. Clerics pray to their god to provide them with
> > > "magic", to cast a spell.
> > >
> > > Magician's do the same, but to Sarig. However, this is just not called
> > > "Clerical magic"
> >
> > I was under the impression that (until the events witnessed in recent
> > books) magicians didn't know they _had_ a god or, if they did,
> > believed him dead.
> >
> > So, if they were praying for their magic, who were they praying to?
> I always thought magicians directly manipulated "stuff", using an array of
> focuses (like lesser path magicians use external focuses).
> Mike,
> Gibfish of the West.

Hmm, maybe I'm getting confused.

IIRC the raw details of magic were discussed in Rage of a Demon King, when
Macros
is found.

Thanks
Darragh
-=-=
www.iamtheporkfireman.com
[Email]: s356179@student.uq.edu.au [ICQ]: 114283262



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From: Sam Bridger <sam@samyool.freeserve.co.uk>
Subject: AOL 6 users - read this - Re: (no subject)
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 22:32:53 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Sam Bridger <sam@samyool.freeserve.co.uk>
Subject: AOL 6 users - read this - Re: (no subject)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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>[aside] Someone, please send this chap some detailed, step-by-step, 
>any-fool-can-do-this instructions for disabling HTML mail. I can no longer 
>help, it seems.
>

Hi all.

I think I've gotten to the bottom of the AOL versus HTML problem.

Apparently, you can't turn off HTML mail in AOL 6. It's that simple. 
However, you can post a non-HTML mail, as long as you format the message in 
exactly the way described below.

(Thanks to the Wisconsin Off-Road Bicycling Association mailing list FAQ, 
since AOL themselves don't document this 
[http://www.worba.org/df2.html?http://www.worba.org/listserve.html])

<begin WORBA snippet>

AOL 6 client also defaults to HTML formatting. unfourtunatly, it is not so 
easy to turn off.

To disable HTML, you must format your messages in a specific way:
in your toolbar:
Click on settings:
click on Preferences:
click on "fonts, text and graphics"
there is a drop down menu for fonts
--> set font to Arial
--> set size to 10
There are check boxes for "bold", Italic" and "underline", make sure they 
are unchecked.
Set text color to black
Set background color to white
If you only want to change this for one message (I recommend you change it 
perminently):
In your toolbar, click on "write", and change the same settings there.

<end WORBA snippet>

Hope this (finally) cures these threads!

-S



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From: Al Solo <solo.nova@btinternet.com>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 23:01:38 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Al Solo <solo.nova@btinternet.com>
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Also, Pug speaks in Return to Krondor, but you never get to see him.

Al

At 07:37 29/08/2001 +1000, you wrote:

> > Hey if you all have noticed me and sam having a fight (sorry magnus for
> > wasting your time with them) I took it off and made it a privite thing. By
> > the way Ray I was wondering if you had any games in thought for say sony or
> > the new game cube maybe. Also I was wondering if you would ever put 
> Tomas in
> > a game or Pug.
> >
>
>Pug and tomas are in BaK. You get to play as Pug as well.
>
>Thanks
>Darragh
>-=-=
>www.iamtheporkfireman.com
>[Email]: s356179@student.uq.edu.au [ICQ]: 114283262



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From: Valheru89@aol.com
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 18:21:13 EDT
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In a message dated 8/28/2001 2:44:50 PM Pacific Daylight Time, 
s356179@student.uq.edu.au writes:


> Pug and tomas are in BaK. You get to play as Pug as well.
> 

oh i can't find it to play it though do you have any idea where I may find it.

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In a message dated 8/28/2001 3:07:45 PM Pacific Daylight Time, 
solo.nova@btinternet.com writes:


> 

Oh i know that i beat the game but i was wondering if you got to play as him.

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From: Allan Mills <milla@css.com.au>
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 Sierra used to have it downloadable for free. I checked though and the file
is no longer there. I might have it at home or someone else on the list
might still have it.

 Allan

-----Original Message-----
>From: Valheru89@aol.com [mailto:Valheru89@aol.com]
>Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 8:21 AM
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: Re: (no subject)
>
>
>In a message dated 8/28/2001 2:44:50 PM Pacific Daylight Time, 
>s356179@student.uq.edu.au writes: 
>
>
>
>Pug and tomas are in BaK. You get to play as Pug as well. 
>
>
>
>oh i can't find it to play it though do you have any idea where I may find
>it. 
>


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In a message dated 8/28/2001 4:22:04 PM Pacific Daylight Time, 
milla@css.com.au writes:


> Sierra used to have it downloadable for free. I checked though and the file
> is no longer there. I might have it at home or someone else on the list
> might still have it.
> 
> Allan
> 

Thank you allan.

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Well, I dunno about trying to find Betrayal at Krondor anymore... you
could try connecting to Sierra's FTP site and see if you can locate it
from there.
Interestingly enough, I saw a couple of copies of Return to Krondor at
an OfficeMax in downtown Denver today. Gonna pick that up when I get
some extra cash together :)

Craig J. Ries



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Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 16:46:36 -0700
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On Tuesday, August 28, 2001, at 01:35 PM, Valheru89@aol.com wrote:

> Hey if you all have noticed me and sam having a fight (sorry magnus for
> wasting your time with them) I took it off and made it a privite thing. 
> By
> the way Ray I was wondering if you had any games in thought for say 
> sony or
> the new game cube maybe. Also I was wondering if you would ever put 
> Tomas in
> a game or Pug.
>
>
>              Chance
>


Nothing for games right now.

Best, R.E.F.

----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.

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References: <200108280426.f7S4Q7R10641@smtp1.san.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Languages in Midkemia (relating to Tolkien).
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 20:48:38 -0400
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From: "Jeffrey K. Czyz" <jczyz@adelphia.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Languages in Midkemia (relating to Tolkien).
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 20:48:38 -0400
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Raymond Feist" <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2001 12:26 AM
Subject: Re: Languages in Midkemia (relating to Tolkien).


>
> On Monday, August 27, 2001, at 09:13 PM, Scott Nimmo wrote:
>
> > Something I am sure has been discussed.
> >
> > Looking
> > Edhel means "Elves of the Eldar" in Quenya or Sindarin
> > Mor- seems to be a pronoun for "dark" in Sindarin
> > We could assume then that moredhel means "Dark Elves of the Eldar"
> >
> > There is a Sindarin word glam "din, uproar, the confused yelling and
> > bellowing of beasts".
> > Glam could also be corrupted to "forsaken" eg. Eglamar "Land of the
> > Forsaken Elves"
> > So does that mean that the glamedhel might be "Forsaken Elves of the
> > Eldar" or is the
> > basic interpretation of "glam" that they are obviously crazy in the
> > coconuts. ;-)
[snip]
> The root edhel means "elf," with el = light, mor = dark, and glam =
> mad.  Valheru means "Power Lord," actually, or Mighty Lord.
>

Small correction:  It's glamredhel (glamr + edhel), not glamedhel.

This might throw off the original poster's comment about the Sindarin word
glam, but I'm far from being considered a Tolkien expert.  Anyway, back to
lurk mode.

Jeff




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From: Joshua Stanton <jasharkalain@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: (no subject)
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Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 18:20:35 -0700 (PDT)
From: Joshua Stanton <jasharkalain@yahoo.com>
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Darn.  You're supposed to say, "No comment."
~Joshua~

--- Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com> wrote:
> Nothing for games right now.
> 
> Best, R.E.F.
> 
> ----
> 
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be
> explained away by 
> stupidity.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger
http://phonecard.yahoo.com/



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Subject: Re: BaK & RtK
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 22:55:41 -0400
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From: "Ryan Rawson" <rrawson7@home.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: BaK & RtK
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 22:55:41 -0400
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BaK is downloadable from here:

http://www.putergod.net/download.php?op=viewsdownload&sid=5

Have fun

-Ryan
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2001 7:44 PM
Subject: BaK & RtK


> Well, I dunno about trying to find Betrayal at Krondor anymore... you
> could try connecting to Sierra's FTP site and see if you can locate it
> from there.
> Interestingly enough, I saw a couple of copies of Return to Krondor at
> an OfficeMax in downtown Denver today. Gonna pick that up when I get
> some extra cash together :)
> 
> Craig J. Ries
> 



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From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
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Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 22:45:52 -0500
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    Actually given the way I have seen the game industry behave of
late, I am rather glad he said what he did.  I am waiting for the
companies to stop cutting personnel from divisions as fast as they
are.  I rather wait five years to get an exceptional game, than get
a lousy one in two.  Given the current market, I think the later
would be more likely right now.

-James

----- Original Message -----

> Darn.  You're supposed to say, "No comment."
> ~Joshua~
>
> --- Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com> wrote:
> > Nothing for games right now.
> >
> > Best, R.E.F.
> >



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From: Allan Mills <milla@css.com.au>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" (FEISTFANS-L) <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
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 Not all companies follow that kind of methodology. Blizzard won't release a
game until they feel it is ready. Westwood tend to put plenty of polish on
their games before they ship also.

 The companies that are having such troubles are mostly those that were
started up by skilled developers but were bought out by larger corporations
who don't understand how game development works. As such they want top
quality games with a minimal budget and limited staff, and they want it out
by Christmas. Take a look at Origin, once a pioneer with the Ultima games
they have been effectively relegated to just doing support for Ultima
Online. Remember Ultima 9 ? It was released far too early because EA, who
own Origin, didn't give a damn about it and wanted it released.

 Allan

> -----Original Message-----
> From: James Young [mailto:jajy@earthlink.net]
> Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 1:46 PM
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Subject: Re: (no subject)
> 
> 
>     Actually given the way I have seen the game industry behave of
> late, I am rather glad he said what he did.  I am waiting for the
> companies to stop cutting personnel from divisions as fast as they
> are.  I rather wait five years to get an exceptional game, than get
> a lousy one in two.  Given the current market, I think the later
> would be more likely right now.
> 
> -James
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> 
> > Darn.  You're supposed to say, "No comment."
> > ~Joshua~
> >
> > --- Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com> wrote:
> > > Nothing for games right now.
> > >
> > > Best, R.E.F.
> > >
> 
> 



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From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: (no subject)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 23:21:07 -0500
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

    I know that it isn't a completely accurate generalization, but
given the overall experience with companies of late, I think it is
fair.  Personally I would love to see the next Midkemia video game
be on par with the Lands of Lore series, both in overall game
quality, and in general design (I happen to like that style quite a
bit).  However, I would repeat the opinion that I think currently
the likely hood that a game company is going to make one such as
that is lower than the chance for it to be of lower quality than
could otherwise be produced.  The other thing I would prefer is that
the games stay primarily PC oriented rather than having games be
made specifically for game systems.  (I think it is easier to make a
PC game a system game, than the other way round).

-James

----- Original Message -----
> Not all companies follow that kind of methodology. Blizzard won't release a
> game until they feel it is ready. Westwood tend to put plenty of polish on
> their games before they ship also.
>
>  The companies that are having such troubles are mostly those that were
> started up by skilled developers but were bought out by larger corporations
> who don't understand how game development works. As such they want top
> quality games with a minimal budget and limited staff, and they want it out
> by Christmas. Take a look at Origin, once a pioneer with the Ultima games
> they have been effectively relegated to just doing support for Ultima
> Online. Remember Ultima 9 ? It was released far too early because EA, who
> own Origin, didn't give a damn about it and wanted it released.
>
>  Allan



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From: "Chad" <feistfan@chadkeffer.com>
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Subject: alt.books.raymond-feist
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 23:29:31 -0500
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Chad" <feistfan@chadkeffer.com>
To: <feistfans-l@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: alt.books.raymond-feist
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 23:29:31 -0500
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I suppose a lot of you already know, but it is a new discovery for me.

There's a Feist newsgroup at:  alt.books.raymond-feist   in case any
of you do the newsgroup thing.

Just thought I'd share. :)



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From: "Michael Gibson" <gibbyfish@yahoo.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Magic Magic Magic
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 09:25:21 +0100
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From: "Michael Gibson" <gibbyfish@yahoo.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Magic Magic Magic
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 09:25:21 +0100
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> > S
> > p
> > o
> > i
> > l
> > e
> > r
> > S
> > p
> > a
> > c
> > e
> > S
> > p
> > o
> > i
> > l
> > e
> > r
> > S
> > p
> > a
> > c
> > e
> >
> > On 28 Aug 2001, at 7:38, Darragh Murray wrote:
> > > As I understand it, magic in Ray's world is explained in the form of a
> > > "prayer" to the gods. Clerics pray to their god to provide them with
> > > "magic", to cast a spell.
> > > Magician's do the same, but to Sarig. However, this is just not called
> > > "Clerical magic"
> > I was under the impression that (until the events witnessed in recent
> > books) magicians didn't know they _had_ a god or, if they did,
> > believed him dead.
> > So, if they were praying for their magic, who were they praying to?
> > Chris
>
> Well, and this is only my intepretation, that they don't know. However, it
> doesn't change the fact that it is a "pseudo-prayer" to Sarig.
>
> Maybe Ray can clear this up?:)
>
> P.S I pity anyone who has to do an IT degree, its very tiring:)

My brain has just come back online, and I now remember (rightly or wrongly) that
magicians adjust their own "stuff", but every spell is also inadvertently a
prayer to Sarig.

Mike,
Gibfish of the West.
                                          Check out my forums at:
"If a problem appears simple, then it     http://www.tonrae.co.uk/forums/
probably hasn't been thought through."


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com



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Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 17:34:06 +0800
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 17:34:06 +0800
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Shawn Chung <shawnc@cyberway.com.sg>
Subject: Re: alt.books.raymond-feist
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On Tue, 28 Aug 2001 23:29:31 -0500, Chad <feistfan@chadkeffer.com> wrote:

>I suppose a lot of you already know, but it is a new discovery for me.
>
>There's a Feist newsgroup at:  alt.books.raymond-feist   in case any
>of you do the newsgroup thing.
>
>Just thought I'd share. :)

Its been around for years, but there's never much activity, 
especially when you compare it to other author-type newsgroups like 
the Mercedes Lackey and Robert Jordan groups.

I think the feist-list has a lot to do about that.  I know that since 
I found out about this list four years ago, I 've never posted there 
again.
-- 
Seeya Starside.

Shawn Chung

---------------------------------------
- I'd rather be ignorant than misinformed. -



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*** EOOH ***
From: "Donal K. Fellows" <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Magic Magic Magic
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 10:56:01 +0100
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

"Michael Gibson" <gibbyfish@yahoo.com>
>>> S
>>> p
>>> o
>>> i
>>> l
>>> e
>>> r
>>> S
>>> p
>>> a
>>> c
>>> e
>>> S
>>> p
>>> o
>>> i
>>> l
>>> e
>>> r
>>> S
>>> p
>>> a
>>> c
>>> e

[Just how much is this discussion a real spoiler for anything?]

> My brain has just come back online, and I now remember (rightly or
> wrongly) that magicians adjust their own "stuff", but every spell is
> also inadvertently a prayer to Sarig.

I was under the impression that every time a Greater Path magician
cast a spell, (s)he had an opportunity to turn it into a prayer to
Sarig.  The distinctions being that this has nothing to do with the
Lesser Path and that not every spell is a prayer.  Or is my memory
wrong in this matter?

Donal.
-- 
Donal K. Fellows, Department of Computer Science, University of Manchester, UK.
(work) fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk     Tel: +44-161-275-6137  (preferred email addr.)
(home) donal@ugglan.demon.co.uk  Tel: +44-1274-401017   Mobile: +44-7957-298955
http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~fellowsd/  (Don't quote my .sig; I've seen it before!)



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 20:20:06 +1000 (GMT+1000)
From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" (FEISTFANS-L) <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
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>  Not all companies follow that kind of methodology. Blizzard won't release a
> game until they feel it is ready. Westwood tend to put plenty of polish on
> their games before they ship also.
>
>  The companies that are having such troubles are mostly those that were
> started up by skilled developers but were bought out by larger corporations
> who don't understand how game development works. As such they want top
> quality games with a minimal budget and limited staff, and they want it out
> by Christmas. Take a look at Origin, once a pioneer with the Ultima games
> they have been effectively relegated to just doing support for Ultima
> Online. Remember Ultima 9 ? It was released far too early because EA, who
> own Origin, didn't give a damn about it and wanted it released.
>  Allan

Funny you say that, I just installed Ultima 9 for the first time the
other, after getting used to the slowness and the jump-i-ness, I acutally
find it a fun game to play.

I know it was released very early, but the patches they got for it make a
bit more playable.

But its no Ultima 6 or 7 (IMOHO the best ones)

Thanks
Darragh
-=-=
www.iamtheporkfireman.com
[Email]: s356179@student.uq.edu.au [ICQ]: 114283262



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 20:14:48 +1000
From: David Smith <David.M.Smith@Sun.COM>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: HE stuff
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Hi Ray,

I just finished reading HE, definately loved it. Thank you for once again providing
a highly enjoyable and entertaining read.

Since I found myself reading most of it on a plane with a palm pilot in my pocket,
and you had mentioned that you were interested in hearing of typos so they can be
rectified for the paperback, I noted down a "few" <G>. Apologies if I'm repeating
any you're already aware of.

Since it's vaguely possible that some of these will have some spoiler value...

s
p
o
i
l
e
r

s
p
a
c
e

With the exception of the first one I'll quote from the start of the line that
contains the typo, rather than the whole sentance.

p31 - near the bottom of the page the u and the i in Tinuva's name are swapped
(Tuniva)

p41 - "Asayaga waved his sword it over his head [...]"

p42 - "many of them and as such close quarters [...]"

p76 - "in it. It was if the two of them [...]"

p95 - "of Valinar. Less than twenty of us amd those [...]"

p162 - "Bovai looked his troops. [...]"

p166 - "Instantly men were wake, sitting [...]"

p178 - "gods know what when I half suspect if the damn royals of both side/ sat down
[...]"

p202 - "Kavala's expression, just for a instant, only [...]"

p207 - "'It would be far better than you, rather than he, should rule [...]"

p300 - "A he heard Gregory's [...]"

Cheers Ray,

-- David Smith



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From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Magic Magic Magic
In-Reply-To: <E15c24n-0000KX-00@athene>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 20:23:09 +1000 (GMT+1000)
From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Magic Magic Magic
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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> "Michael Gibson" <gibbyfish@yahoo.com>
> >>> S
> >>> p
> >>> o
> >>> i
> >>> l
> >>> e
> >>> r
> >>> S
> >>> p
> >>> a
> >>> c
> >>> e
> >>> S
> >>> p
> >>> o
> >>> i
> >>> l
> >>> e
> >>> r
> >>> S
> >>> p
> >>> a
> >>> c
> >>> e
>
> [Just how much is this discussion a real spoiler for anything?]
>
> > My brain has just come back online, and I now remember (rightly or
> > wrongly) that magicians adjust their own "stuff", but every spell is
> > also inadvertently a prayer to Sarig.
>
> I was under the impression that every time a Greater Path magician
> cast a spell, (s)he had an opportunity to turn it into a prayer to
> Sarig.  The distinctions being that this has nothing to do with the
> Lesser Path and that not every spell is a prayer.  Or is my memory
> wrong in this matter?
> Donal.

Anyone feel like re-reading RoaDK, I think it is all explained there.

Thanks
Darragh
-=-=
www.iamtheporkfireman.com
[Email]: s356179@student.uq.edu.au [ICQ]: 114283262



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Subject: Re: HE stuff
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*** EOOH ***
From: "A Irving" <aignome@dingoblue.net.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: HE stuff
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 21:07:22 +1000
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From: David Smith <David.M.Smith@sun.com>
> Hi Ray,
>
> I just finished reading HE, definately loved it. Thank you for once again providing
> a highly enjoyable and entertaining read.
>
> Since I found myself reading most of it on a plane with a palm pilot in my pocket,
> and you had mentioned that you were interested in hearing of typos so they can be
> rectified for the paperback, I noted down a "few" <G>. Apologies if I'm repeating
> any you're already aware of.
>
> Since it's vaguely possible that some of these will have some spoiler value...
>
> s
> p
> o
> i
> l
> e
> r
>
> s
> p
> a
> c
> e
>
> With the exception of the first one I'll quote from the start of the line that
> contains the typo, rather than the whole sentance.
>
> p31 - near the bottom of the page the u and the i in Tinuva's name are swapped
> (Tuniva)
>
> p41 - "Asayaga waved his sword it over his head [...]"
>
> p42 - "many of them and as such close quarters [...]"
>
> p76 - "in it. It was if the two of them [...]"
>
> p95 - "of Valinar. Less than twenty of us amd those [...]"
>
> p162 - "Bovai looked his troops. [...]"
>
> p166 - "Instantly men were wake, sitting [...]"
>
> p178 - "gods know what when I half suspect if the damn royals of both side/ sat down
> [...]"
>
> p202 - "Kavala's expression, just for a instant, only [...]"
>
> p207 - "'It would be far better than you, rather than he, should rule [...]"
>
> p300 - "A he heard Gregory's [...]"
>
> Cheers Ray,
>
> -- David Smith
On page 86 you mention Clan Shonshini then on page 87 you mention Clan
Shoshini, I am unsure as to whether this is a typo or another clan of
Tsurani. Thought you might want to know.



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From: "Chris Smith" <cjs94@zepler.org.uk>
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Chris Smith" <cjs94@zepler.org.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 19:32:12 +0100
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On 29 Aug 2001, at 10:56, Donal K. Fellows wrote:

> "Michael Gibson" <gibbyfish@yahoo.com>
> >>> S
> >>> p
> >>> o
> >>> i
> >>> l
> >>> e
> >>> r
> >>> S
> >>> p
> >>> a
> >>> c
> >>> e
> >>> S
> >>> p
> >>> o
> >>> i
> >>> l
> >>> e
> >>> r
> >>> S
> >>> p
> >>> a
> >>> c
> >>> e
> 
> [Just how much is this discussion a real spoiler for anything?]

I included the spoiler space when we started referring to Sarig; I 
couldn't recall in which book this information was first given, so I 
included it for caution's sake...

One thing is clear: I can't seem to recall very much about this 
subject! :-)

I think I'm going to have to re-read SerpentWar before continuing 
this discussion...

Chris.

--
Chris Smith
Work: chris.smith@tfbplc.co.uk     Home: cjs94@zepler.org.uk
PGP Key available from public key servers; Key ID 0x8586B4B2
"Veni, vidi, velcro." - "I came, I saw, I stuck around."



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Subject: Awesome Ray!
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Jason Martin" <res0b95g@verizon.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Awesome Ray!
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 19:18:59 -0700
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I finished HE last night, and I must say I thought the book was totally
awesome.  Ray thank you and William for such a great read.  I must admitt
this book had a nice flow to it with some great details and action.  I liked
how we got to know more on the Dark Brothers and such (leaving this vague
since I don't want to spoil anything).  For those who are thinking about
importing it, do so it was worth every penny and more.

Thanks once again,

Jason

PS this book I totally recommend!
"Mas Tequila!"
       Red Vodoo- Sammy Hagar



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From: Allan Mills <milla@css.com.au>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" (FEISTFANS-L) <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
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Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 13:26:07 +1000
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: Darragh Murray [mailto:s356179@student.uq.edu.au]
> Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 8:20 PM
> To: 'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'
> Subject: RE: (no subject)
> 
> 
> >  Not all companies follow that kind of methodology. 
> Blizzard won't release a
> > game until they feel it is ready. Westwood tend to put 
> plenty of polish on
> > their games before they ship also.
> >
> >  The companies that are having such troubles are mostly 
> those that were
> > started up by skilled developers but were bought out by 
> larger corporations
> > who don't understand how game development works. As such 
> they want top
> > quality games with a minimal budget and limited staff, and 
> they want it out
> > by Christmas. Take a look at Origin, once a pioneer with 
> the Ultima games
> > they have been effectively relegated to just doing support 
> for Ultima
> > Online. Remember Ultima 9 ? It was released far too early 
> because EA, who
> > own Origin, didn't give a damn about it and wanted it released.
> >  Allan
> 
> Funny you say that, I just installed Ultima 9 for the first time the
> other, after getting used to the slowness and the 
> jump-i-ness, I acutally
> find it a fun game to play.
> 
> I know it was released very early, but the patches they got 
> for it make a
> bit more playable.
> 
> But its no Ultima 6 or 7 (IMOHO the best ones)
> 
> Thanks
> Darragh
> -=-=
> www.iamtheporkfireman.com
> [Email]: s356179@student.uq.edu.au [ICQ]: 114283262
> 
> 

 I'll have to look at getting it someday just for completeness sake.
Although I never finshed Ultima 4 or 5. Ultima 7 looked pretty flash, it
only lacked two things - a function to make your party eat until they were
full and a speed lock for faster computers. The first computer I played it
on was a Pentium 133 IIRC and people were buzzing around like bees.

 Allan



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Subject: OT: Ultima games (Was RE: (no subject))
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<SNIP>
>
> I'll have to look at getting it someday just for completeness sake.
>Although I never finshed Ultima 4 or 5. Ultima 7 looked pretty flash, it
>only lacked two things - a function to make your party eat until they were

>full and a speed lock for faster computers. The first computer I played it

>on was a Pentium 133 IIRC and people were buzzing around like bees.
>
> Allan
>

I found a program on the net called moslow that you run the game through that
makes things a much better pace.  I can forward it to you off list if you are
interested.  I loved Ultima 7 p1 & p2.  Ultima8 was also great fun, and so was
9 though it being so slow was annoying and it randomly quitting on me wasn't
much fun either.  I haven't found copies of the first 6 yet and don't really
have time to complete them anyway :-(.

- MARK



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To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" (FEISTFANS-L) <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: OT Ultima games (Was RE: (no subject))
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*** EOOH ***
From: Allan Mills <milla@css.com.au>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" (FEISTFANS-L) <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: OT Ultima games (Was RE: (no subject))
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 15:34:33 +1000
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mark Tonkin [mailto:shadowfire@chariot.net.au]
> Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2001 3:20 PM
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Subject: OT: Ultima games (Was RE: (no subject))
> 
> 
> <SNIP>
> >
> > I'll have to look at getting it someday just for completeness sake.
> >Although I never finshed Ultima 4 or 5. Ultima 7 looked 
> pretty flash, it
> >only lacked two things - a function to make your party eat 
> until they were
> 
> >full and a speed lock for faster computers. The first 
> computer I played it
> 
> >on was a Pentium 133 IIRC and people were buzzing around like bees.
> >
> > Allan
> >
> 
> I found a program on the net called moslow that you run the 
> game through that
> makes things a much better pace.  I can forward it to you off 
> list if you are
> interested.  I loved Ultima 7 p1 & p2.  Ultima8 was also 
> great fun, and so was
> 9 though it being so slow was annoying and it randomly 
> quitting on me wasn't
> much fun either.  I haven't found copies of the first 6 yet 
> and don't really
> have time to complete them anyway :-(.
> 
> - MARK
> 
> 
 I tried moslo. Even at maximum slowdown it still ran a bit too fast. Ultima
8 was ok after the patch, prior to that they had some wierd ideas like
getting knocked backwards if you were hit during a fight. Not a good idea
since monsters sometimes were lurking on ledges. Ultima 6 was confusing IMO,
you could be a short distance from a town but not realise it because there
were no visual or audible clues.

 Allan



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From: "Jonathon Cant" <fantus69@hotmail.com>
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From: "Jonathon Cant" <fantus69@hotmail.com>
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to everyone!

honoured enemy is now out in australian stores and after having a good look, 
it appears fantastic ray.....

i can't wait to read it, soon!
looks like another job well done ray!

Regards
Jonathon

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp



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Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 14:46:48 +0800
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Jon Hope <jehope@chem.uwa.edu.au>
Subject: Re: OT: Ultima games (Was RE: (no subject))
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

At 05:20 30/08/01 +0000, you wrote:
><SNIP>
> >
> > I'll have to look at getting it someday just for completeness sake.
> >Although I never finshed Ultima 4 or 5. Ultima 7 looked pretty flash, it
> >only lacked two things - a function to make your party eat until they were
>
> >full and a speed lock for faster computers. The first computer I played it
>
> >on was a Pentium 133 IIRC and people were buzzing around like bees.
> >
> > Allan
> >
>
>I found a program on the net called moslow that you run the game through that
>makes things a much better pace.  I can forward it to you off list if you are
>interested.  I loved Ultima 7 p1 & p2.  Ultima8 was also great fun, and so was
>9 though it being so slow was annoying and it randomly quitting on me wasn't
>much fun either.  I haven't found copies of the first 6 yet and don't really
>have time to complete them anyway :-(.

There was a compilation of the ultima games released a year or two back. I 
have it at home, but it's mine, all mine, I tell you. :-)


cheers

Jon

"Who are they that you should believe anything that they say?"



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To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" (FEISTFANS-L) <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: for aussies on the list!
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 16:45:59 +1000
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*** EOOH ***
From: Allan Mills <milla@css.com.au>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" (FEISTFANS-L) <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: for aussies on the list!
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 16:45:59 +1000
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

 Um, did this e-mail get lost in Cyberspace for a few weeks ? I bought my
copy of HE a few weeks ago, and I've already finished it.

 Allan

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jonathon Cant [mailto:fantus69@hotmail.com]
> Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2001 4:33 PM
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Subject: for aussies on the list!
> 
> 
> to everyone!
> 
> honoured enemy is now out in australian stores and after 
> having a good look, 
> it appears fantastic ray.....
> 
> i can't wait to read it, soon!
> looks like another job well done ray!
> 
> Regards
> Jonathon
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at 
> http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
> 
> 



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From: "A Irving" <aignome@dingoblue.net.au>
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Subject: Re: for aussies on the list!
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 17:05:10 +1000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "A Irving" <aignome@dingoblue.net.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: for aussies on the list!
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 17:05:10 +1000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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It has been out for a while. It is also on sale now and you can pick it up
from Kmart for $24 (Aus.)
CIAO,
           Aaron

http://www.hallofworlds.net/kerr/main.php
http://www.nightshadow.co.uk
----- Original Message -----
From: Jonathon Cant <fantus69@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2001 4:33 PM
Subject: for aussies on the list!


> to everyone!
>
> honoured enemy is now out in australian stores and after having a good look,
> it appears fantastic ray.....
>
> i can't wait to read it, soon!
> looks like another job well done ray!
>
> Regards
> Jonathon
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>



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From: "Julie Wootten" <wootten@xtra.co.nz>
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Subject: Re: for aussies on the list!
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 19:19:41 +1200
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Julie Wootten" <wootten@xtra.co.nz>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: for aussies on the list!
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 19:19:41 +1200
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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I think it's been out in Aussie for a while.  But it's just come out in NZ
this week.
So far, it looks like The Warehouse has it cheapest, at $34.95 (5 bucks
cheaper
than Whitcoulls).  Oddly enough, it arrived here just after my last round of
tests,
thus I didn't even have to battle with conscience. Coincidence?  I think
not.
Proof positive the world revolves around me ;-)

Julie.


> to everyone!
>
> honoured enemy is now out in australian stores and after having a good look,
> it appears fantastic ray.....
>
> i can't wait to read it, soon!
> looks like another job well done ray!
>
> Regards
> Jonathon
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>



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From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 19:35:24 +1000 (GMT+1000)
From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: for aussies on the list!
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Its been in aussie stores for at least the past 5-6 weeks

> to everyone!
>
> honoured enemy is now out in australian stores and after having a good look,
> it appears fantastic ray.....
>
> i can't wait to read it, soon!
> looks like another job well done ray!
>
> Regards
> Jonathon
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>
>

Thanks
Darragh
-=-=
www.iamtheporkfireman.com
[Email]: s356179@student.uq.edu.au [ICQ]: 114283262



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>
>I found a program on the net called moslow that you run the game through that
>makes things a much better pace.  I can forward it to you off list if you are
>interested.  I loved Ultima 7 p1 & p2.  Ultima8 was also great fun, and so was
>9 though it being so slow was annoying and it randomly quitting on me wasn't
>much fun either.  I haven't found copies of the first 6 yet and don't really
>have time to complete them anyway :-(.
>
>- MARK
>
>

Origin released a pack with the complete ultima serie, from 1 to 8. I
guess you can still find this in stores for 10$. As for Ultima 9, I
enjoyed it, however the plot was thin compared to Ultima 4-5 and 7.

And yes, the auto-food thingy would have been VERY useful in U7 :-)

PJ


Get 250 color business cards for FREE!
http://businesscards.lycos.com/vp/fastpath/



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Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 15:03:47 +1000 (EST)
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From: Roland Eckhardt <havago182@yahoo.com.au>
Subject: Question about being a agent/ manager
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 15:03:47 +1000 (EST)
From: Roland Eckhardt <havago182@yahoo.com.au>
Subject: Question about being a agent/ manager
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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what do you have to do to be one, I mean, are there
any courses or anything you can do at a university
(I'm from Australia)

TIA
Rols

====Change is the essence of being. Ultimately change comes from within.

http://travel.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Travel
- Got Itchy feet? Get inspired!



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 22:55:17 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
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Subject: Re: Question about being a agent/ manager
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On Thursday, August 30, 2001, at 10:03 PM, Roland Eckhardt wrote:

> what do you have to do to be one, I mean, are there
> any courses or anything you can do at a university
> (I'm from Australia)
>
> TIA
> Rols
>
> =====
> Change is the essence of being. Ultimately change comes from within.
>
> http://travel.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Travel
> - Got Itchy feet? Get inspired!
>
>

There are no formal requirements.  But to get clients, you need some 
strong business skills and a good knowledge of the publishing industry. 
A business degree is good.  Some are lawyers.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Kenneth Jones <killkenny@thos.co.za>
Subject: Hardcover Books
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Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 08:37:11 +0200
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Kenneth Jones <killkenny@thos.co.za>
Subject: Hardcover Books
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Hi everyone.

Does anyone have any idea where I could find hardcover versions of all the 
Feist books.

I have been searching for ages and all I can find is "Shards of a Broken 
Crown".

I anyone knows anything please let me know.

Regards,
Kenneth



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References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010831083438.00a513f0@127.0.0.1>
Subject: Re: Hardcover Books
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 18:52:07 +0930
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*** EOOH ***
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: "Sonia Tabe" <sonia@nt-tech.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Hardcover Books
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 18:52:07 +0930
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I dare say that this information is of no use to you, but Krondor: The
Assasins (I think that's is the book) is in my local bookstore as hardcover.

~Sonia


----- Original Message -----
From: Kenneth Jones <killkenny@thos.co.za>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Friday, August 31, 2001 4:07 PM
Subject: Hardcover Books


> Hi everyone.
>
> Does anyone have any idea where I could find hardcover versions of all the
> Feist books.
>
> I have been searching for ages and all I can find is "Shards of a Broken
> Crown".
>
> I anyone knows anything please let me know.
>
> Regards,
> Kenneth
>



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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Kenneth Jones <killkenny@thos.co.za>
Subject: Re: Hardcover Books
In-Reply-To: <002801c131fe$68b919e0$4785fea9@Sonia>
References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010831083438.00a513f0@127.0.0.1>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 11:27:41 +0200
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Kenneth Jones <killkenny@thos.co.za>
Subject: Re: Hardcover Books
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

where about do u live?

At 06:52 PM 8/31/01 +0930, you wrote:
>I dare say that this information is of no use to you, but Krondor: The
>Assasins (I think that's is the book) is in my local bookstore as hardcover.
>
>~Sonia
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Kenneth Jones <killkenny@thos.co.za>
>To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
>Sent: Friday, August 31, 2001 4:07 PM
>Subject: Hardcover Books
>
>
> > Hi everyone.
> >
> > Does anyone have any idea where I could find hardcover versions of all the
> > Feist books.
> >
> > I have been searching for ages and all I can find is "Shards of a Broken
> > Crown".
> >
> > I anyone knows anything please let me know.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Kenneth
> >



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References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010831083438.00a513f0@127.0.0.1> <5.0.0.25.2.20010831112727.00a22380@127.0.0.1>
Subject: Re: Hardcover Books
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*** EOOH ***
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: "Sonia Tabe" <sonia@nt-tech.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Hardcover Books
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 19:26:58 +0930
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

A little place called home in Katherine, Australia.


----- Original Message -----
From: Kenneth Jones <killkenny@thos.co.za>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Friday, August 31, 2001 6:57 PM
Subject: Re: Hardcover Books


> where about do u live?
>
> At 06:52 PM 8/31/01 +0930, you wrote:
> >I dare say that this information is of no use to you, but Krondor: The
> >Assasins (I think that's is the book) is in my local bookstore as hardcover.
> >
> >~Sonia
> >
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: Kenneth Jones <killkenny@thos.co.za>
> >To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> >Sent: Friday, August 31, 2001 4:07 PM
> >Subject: Hardcover Books
> >
> >
> > > Hi everyone.
> > >
> > > Does anyone have any idea where I could find hardcover versions of all the
> > > Feist books.
> > >
> > > I have been searching for ages and all I can find is "Shards of a Broken
> > > Crown".
> > >
> > > I anyone knows anything please let me know.
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > > Kenneth
> > >
>



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From: Kenneth Jones <killkenny@thos.co.za>
Subject: Re: Hardcover Books
In-Reply-To: <004f01c13203$483666a0$4785fea9@Sonia>
References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010831083438.00a513f0@127.0.0.1>
 <5.0.0.25.2.20010831112727.00a22380@127.0.0.1>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 12:07:18 +0200
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Kenneth Jones <killkenny@thos.co.za>
Subject: Re: Hardcover Books
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Right well,

Don't suppose they ship books to SA?{:-)


At 07:26 PM 8/31/01 +0930, you wrote:
>A little place called home in Katherine, Australia.
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Kenneth Jones <killkenny@thos.co.za>
>To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
>Sent: Friday, August 31, 2001 6:57 PM
>Subject: Re: Hardcover Books
>
>
> > where about do u live?
> >
> > At 06:52 PM 8/31/01 +0930, you wrote:
> > >I dare say that this information is of no use to you, but Krondor: The
> > >Assasins (I think that's is the book) is in my local bookstore as
>hardcover.
> > >
> > >~Sonia
> > >
> > >
> > >----- Original Message -----
> > >From: Kenneth Jones <killkenny@thos.co.za>
> > >To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> > >Sent: Friday, August 31, 2001 4:07 PM
> > >Subject: Hardcover Books
> > >
> > >
> > > > Hi everyone.
> > > >
> > > > Does anyone have any idea where I could find hardcover versions of all
>the
> > > > Feist books.
> > > >
> > > > I have been searching for ages and all I can find is "Shards of a
>Broken
> > > > Crown".
> > > >
> > > > I anyone knows anything please let me know.
> > > >
> > > > Regards,
> > > > Kenneth
> > > >
> >



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Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 14:12:42 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Al Solo <solo.nova@btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: Hardcover Books
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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You could try an online bookstore such as www.amazon.com or www.bol.com.
They usually have both hardcover and paperback versions of the books.

Al

At 12:07 31/08/2001 +0200, you wrote:
>Right well,
>
>Don't suppose they ship books to SA?{:-)
>
>
>At 07:26 PM 8/31/01 +0930, you wrote:
>>A little place called home in Katherine, Australia.
>>
>>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: Kenneth Jones <killkenny@thos.co.za>
>>To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
>>Sent: Friday, August 31, 2001 6:57 PM
>>Subject: Re: Hardcover Books
>>
>>
>> > where about do u live?
>> >
>> > At 06:52 PM 8/31/01 +0930, you wrote:
>> > >I dare say that this information is of no use to you, but Krondor: The
>> > >Assasins (I think that's is the book) is in my local bookstore as
>>hardcover.
>> > >
>> > >~Sonia
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >----- Original Message -----
>> > >From: Kenneth Jones <killkenny@thos.co.za>
>> > >To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
>> > >Sent: Friday, August 31, 2001 4:07 PM
>> > >Subject: Hardcover Books
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > > Hi everyone.
>> > > >
>> > > > Does anyone have any idea where I could find hardcover versions of all
>>the
>> > > > Feist books.
>> > > >
>> > > > I have been searching for ages and all I can find is "Shards of a
>>Broken
>> > > > Crown".
>> > > >
>> > > > I anyone knows anything please let me know.
>> > > >
>> > > > Regards,
>> > > > Kenneth
>> > > >
>> >



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Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 12:50:01 -0400
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> Does anyone have any idea where I could find hardcover versions of all the
> Feist books.

Try:
www.abebooks.com  (click on Search) and under 'Binding' select "Hardcover"
They have all the hardcover books at that site.
They even have a 1st edition Magician if you are willing to pay the price
:-)

Rob Kolech



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From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Hardcover Books
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On Friday, August 31, 2001, at 09:50 AM, Rob Kolech wrote:

>> Does anyone have any idea where I could find hardcover versions of all 
>> the
>> Feist books.
>
> Try:
> www.abebooks.com  (click on Search) and under 'Binding' select 
> "Hardcover"
> They have all the hardcover books at that site.
> They even have a 1st edition Magician if you are willing to pay the 
> price
> :-)
>
> Rob Kolech
>
>


Geesh.  2nd printings are now $250!  Book club at $50-100?  First 
edition at $650!

I should have kept more!

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com> writes
>Geesh.  2nd printings are now $250!  Book club at $50-100?  First 
>edition at $650!
>
>I should have kept more!
>
>Best, R.E.F.
But they don't sell ! <G>

Unfortunately Ray the best I have seen you sell for  (Magician ) is 
$400, they just don't get above that at the moment.
Curry is a bit optimistic :)
Though I do know of  a certain person we know who sold one for $750 !

Basic prices that sell at are for fine copies
1st $350
1st reprint $100-$200
1st (APE) $250-$300
Book Club between $70 and $100, though those at a hundred take quite a 
while to sell  if at all
The odd one is either Easton press edition at over $150 each when they 
are still new they are $49
An odd market

Now I just wonder how much a Brown Bomber would be worth....... <G>

-- 
John

john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.

Raymond E Feist Ring
http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm



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They are quite expensive.  I have all the 1st editions (hardcover) from
Shadow of a Dark Queen on.  The empire trilogy and back is just too much.
But I might just luck out and find something at a used book store for cheap.
One can always hope!

Rob Kolech


> Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com> writes
> >Geesh.  2nd printings are now $250!  Book club at $50-100?  First
> >edition at $650!
> >
> >I should have kept more!
> >
> >Best, R.E.F.
> But they don't sell ! <G>
>
> Unfortunately Ray the best I have seen you sell for  (Magician ) is
> $400, they just don't get above that at the moment.
> Curry is a bit optimistic :)
> Though I do know of  a certain person we know who sold one for $750 !
>
> Basic prices that sell at are for fine copies
> 1st $350
> 1st reprint $100-$200
> 1st (APE) $250-$300
> Book Club between $70 and $100, though those at a hundred take quite a
> while to sell  if at all
> The odd one is either Easton press edition at over $150 each when they
> are still new they are $49
> An odd market
>
> Now I just wonder how much a Brown Bomber would be worth....... <G>
>
> --
> John
>
> john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
> http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.
>
> Raymond E Feist Ring
> http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm
>
>



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 11:35:20 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Hardcover Books
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Friday, August 31, 2001, at 10:54 AM, John wrote:

> Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com> writes
>> Geesh.  2nd printings are now $250!  Book club at $50-100?  First 
>> edition at $650!
>>
>> I should have kept more!
>>
>> Best, R.E.F.
> But they don't sell ! <G>
>
> Unfortunately Ray the best I have seen you sell for  (Magician ) is 
> $400, they just don't get above that at the moment.
> Curry is a bit optimistic :)

Is that Lloyd Curry?  If it is, he's been doing this 20+ years, and his 
prices are always high.  But eventually, he gets his price.

> Though I do know of  a certain person we know who sold one for $750 !
>
> Basic prices that sell at are for fine copies
> 1st $350
> 1st reprint $100-$200
> 1st (APE) $250-$300
> Book Club between $70 and $100, though those at a hundred take quite a 
> while to sell  if at all
> The odd one is either Easton press edition at over $150 each when they 
> are still new they are $49
> An odd market
>
> Now I just wonder how much a Brown Bomber would be worth....... <G>


Brown Bomber must be close to $1000 if it's mint.  I have one old one 
around here that's beat to death, and I've had offers of $500 for it 
(and that was five years ago).

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.

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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 19:44:58 +0100
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From: John <john@crydee.com>
Subject: Re: Hardcover Books
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Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com> writes
>
>Now I just wonder how much a Brown Bomber would be worth....... <G>
>
>
>Brown Bomber must be close to $1000 if it's mint.  I have one old one 
>around here that's beat to death, and I've had offers of $500 for it 
>(and that was five years ago).
>
>Best, R.E.F.

I must admit I paid a little more for one : )

They make such great door stops <G>

-- 
John

john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.

Raymond E Feist Ring
http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm



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From: "Paddyjack [ ]" <erykel@lycos.com>
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On Fri, 31 Aug 2001 14:21:16  
 Rob Kolech wrote:
>They are quite expensive.  I have all the 1st editions (hardcover) from
>Shadow of a Dark Queen on.  The empire trilogy and back is just too much.
>But I might just luck out and find something at a used book store for cheap.
>One can always hope!
>
>Rob Kolech
>
>

One can indeed! So far, I've found Silverthorn, King Buccaneer and
Rise of Merchant Prince as hardcover in used book stores. And I'm
still looking for the others....

PJ



>> Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com> writes
>> >Geesh.  2nd printings are now $250!  Book club at $50-100?  First
>> >edition at $650!
>> >
>> >I should have kept more!
>> >
>> >Best, R.E.F.
>> But they don't sell ! <G>
>>
>> Unfortunately Ray the best I have seen you sell for  (Magician ) is
>> $400, they just don't get above that at the moment.
>> Curry is a bit optimistic :)
>> Though I do know of  a certain person we know who sold one for $750 !
>>
>> Basic prices that sell at are for fine copies
>> 1st $350
>> 1st reprint $100-$200
>> 1st (APE) $250-$300
>> Book Club between $70 and $100, though those at a hundred take quite a
>> while to sell  if at all
>> The odd one is either Easton press edition at over $150 each when they
>> are still new they are $49
>> An odd market
>>
>> Now I just wonder how much a Brown Bomber would be worth....... <G>
>>
>> --
>> John
>>
>> john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
>> http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.
>>
>> Raymond E Feist Ring
>> http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm
>>
>>
>
>


Get 250 color business cards for FREE!
http://businesscards.lycos.com/vp/fastpath/



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Subject: RE: Hardcover Books
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From: "Cameron Duncan" <cduncan@amadeus.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Hardcover Books
Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2001 11:13:12 +1000
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Paddyjack [ ]
> Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2001 10:45
> To: FEISTFANS-L
> Subject: Re: Hardcover Books
>
>
> On Fri, 31 Aug 2001 14:21:16
>  Rob Kolech wrote:
> >They are quite expensive.  I have all the 1st editions (hardcover) from
> >Shadow of a Dark Queen on.  The empire trilogy and back is just too much.
> >But I might just luck out and find something at a used book
> store for cheap.
> >One can always hope!
> >
> >Rob Kolech
> >
> >
>
> One can indeed! So far, I've found Silverthorn, King Buccaneer
> and Rise of Merchant Prince as hardcover in used book stores. And
> I'm still looking for the others....
>
> PJ
>
>
>
<snip>

Yep, I've found just about every Hardcover book except Magician over the
last
few years in used book stores.  You can always try ebay, but some books can
get
quite expensive!

Cameron



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From: Max Haghighi <maxhag@pacbell.net>
Subject: RE: Hardcover Books
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 19:11:46 -0700
From: Max Haghighi <maxhag@pacbell.net>
Subject: RE: Hardcover Books
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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Yes:

Go to John Buntings book store.  He has many copies of Feist hardbacks in
many languages :>

Max

-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Kenneth Jones
>Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2001 11:37 PM
>To: FEISTFANS-L
>Subject: Hardcover Books
>
>
>Hi everyone.
>
>Does anyone have any idea where I could find hardcover versions of all the
>Feist books.
>
>I have been searching for ages and all I can find is "Shards of a Broken
>Crown".
>
>I anyone knows anything please let me know.
>
>Regards,
>Kenneth
>


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Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 19:21:47 -0700
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Subject: RE: Hardcover Books
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 19:21:47 -0700
From: Max Haghighi <maxhag@pacbell.net>
Subject: RE: Hardcover Books
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I have one I paid $400 for.  It has Ray's long signature where you can
actually read it's him :>

Max

-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Raymond Feist
>Sent: Friday, August 31, 2001 10:33 AM
>To: FEISTFANS-L
>Subject: Re: Hardcover Books
>
>
>
>On Friday, August 31, 2001, at 09:50 AM, Rob Kolech wrote:
>
>>> Does anyone have any idea where I could find hardcover versions of all
>>> the
>>> Feist books.
>>
>> Try:
>> www.abebooks.com  (click on Search) and under 'Binding' select
>> "Hardcover"
>> They have all the hardcover books at that site.
>> They even have a 1st edition Magician if you are willing to pay the
>> price
>> :-)
>>
>> Rob Kolech
>>
>>
>
>
>Geesh.  2nd printings are now $250!  Book club at $50-100?  First
>edition at $650!
>
>I should have kept more!
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
>stupidity.
>
>

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Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2001 13:46:37 +1000 (GMT+1000)
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From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Hardcover Books
In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20010831120640.00a34720@127.0.0.1>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2001 13:46:37 +1000 (GMT+1000)
From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Hardcover Books
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


2nd hand book stores usually hjave a couple...thats were i got mine.

> Right well,
>
> Don't suppose they ship books to SA?{:-)
>
>
> At 07:26 PM 8/31/01 +0930, you wrote:
> >A little place called home in Katherine, Australia.
> >
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: Kenneth Jones <killkenny@thos.co.za>
> >To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> >Sent: Friday, August 31, 2001 6:57 PM
> >Subject: Re: Hardcover Books
> >
> >
> > > where about do u live?
> > >
> > > At 06:52 PM 8/31/01 +0930, you wrote:
> > > >I dare say that this information is of no use to you, but Krondor: The
> > > >Assasins (I think that's is the book) is in my local bookstore as
> >hardcover.
> > > >
> > > >~Sonia
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >----- Original Message -----
> > > >From: Kenneth Jones <killkenny@thos.co.za>
> > > >To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> > > >Sent: Friday, August 31, 2001 4:07 PM
> > > >Subject: Hardcover Books
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Hi everyone.
> > > > >
> > > > > Does anyone have any idea where I could find hardcover versions of all
> >the
> > > > > Feist books.
> > > > >
> > > > > I have been searching for ages and all I can find is "Shards of a
> >Broken
> > > > > Crown".
> > > > >
> > > > > I anyone knows anything please let me know.
> > > > >
> > > > > Regards,
> > > > > Kenneth
> > > > >
> > >
>
>

Thanks
Darragh
-=-=
www.iamtheporkfireman.com
[Email]: s356179@student.uq.edu.au [ICQ]: 114283262



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Subject: Re: Hardcover Books
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Barker" <heechee@softhome.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Hardcover Books
Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2001 14:13:22 +1000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


----- Original Message ----- 
From: John <john@crydee.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2001 4:44 AM
Subject: Re: Hardcover Books


> Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com> writes
> >
> >Now I just wonder how much a Brown Bomber would be worth....... <G>
> >
> >
> >Brown Bomber must be close to $1000 if it's mint.  I have one old one 
> >around here that's beat to death, and I've had offers of $500 for it 
> >(and that was five years ago).
> >
> >Best, R.E.F.
> 
> I must admit I paid a little more for one : )
> 
> They make such great door stops <G>

Umm... Brown Bomber?

Cheers,
James



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From: Larry Siegel <larry@psihawk.com>
Subject: ot : test
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sat, 01 Sep 2001 10:46:07 -0400
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Larry Siegel <larry@psihawk.com>
Subject: ot : test
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

sorry so many tests... just switched providers...

--
Larry (PsiHawk)
--
PsiHawk's Home Page
     http://www.psihawk.com
--
Raymond E Feist FAQ Page
     http://www.psihawk.com/feist



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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Barker" <heechee@softhome.net>
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----- Original Message ----- 
From: Larry Siegel <larry@psihawk.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2001 12:46 AM
Subject: ot : test


> sorry so many tests... just switched providers...
> 
> --
> Larry (PsiHawk)

Well you're co,ming through...



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From: "James Barker" <heechee@softhome.net>
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----- Original Message ----- 
From: Larry Siegel <larry@psihawk.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2001 12:46 AM
Subject: ot : test


> sorry so many tests... just switched providers...

Don't worry about it... we're reading you loud and clear. :)

Cheers,
James



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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Barker" <heechee@softhome.net>
To: feistfans-l@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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To the list,

Apologies for responding twice to Larry's post. I thought the second post
got bounced.

Cheers,
James



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From: "Sonia Tabe" <sonia@nt-tech.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
References: <5.0.0.25.2.20010831083438.00a513f0@127.0.0.1><5.0.0.25.2.20010831112727.00a22380@127.0.0.1> <5.0.0.25.2.20010831120640.00a34720@127.0.0.1>
Subject: Re: Hardcover Books
Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2001 10:30:47 +0930
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*** EOOH ***
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: "Sonia Tabe" <sonia@nt-tech.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Hardcover Books
Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2001 10:30:47 +0930
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

You could try what I always do when the bookstore doesn't have a book that I
want-- I ask them to order it for me. They have their connections. Just tell
the people at your local bookstore that you're looking for Hardcover
editions, and hopefully they'll be able to help you.

Slightly a different subject:
Last night when I went to the local Tick Market, I was as happy as a pig in
mud. The local Red Cross had a bookstall with a bag of books for $2. Aside
from being content with just that, I found a 2nd edition printing of my
current favorite book, Time of the Twins. Unfortunately it has seen much
better days, but the discovery made me so happy!


~Sonia



----- Original Message -----
From: Kenneth Jones <killkenny@thos.co.za>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Friday, August 31, 2001 7:37 PM
Subject: Re: Hardcover Books


> Right well,
>
> Don't suppose they ship books to SA?{:-)
>
>
> At 07:26 PM 8/31/01 +0930, you wrote:
> >A little place called home in Katherine, Australia.
> >
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: Kenneth Jones <killkenny@thos.co.za>
> >To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> >Sent: Friday, August 31, 2001 6:57 PM
> >Subject: Re: Hardcover Books
> >
> >
> > > where about do u live?
> > >
> > > At 06:52 PM 8/31/01 +0930, you wrote:
> > > >I dare say that this information is of no use to you, but Krondor: The
> > > >Assasins (I think that's is the book) is in my local bookstore as
> >hardcover.
> > > >
> > > >~Sonia
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >----- Original Message -----
> > > >From: Kenneth Jones <killkenny@thos.co.za>
> > > >To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> > > >Sent: Friday, August 31, 2001 4:07 PM
> > > >Subject: Hardcover Books
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Hi everyone.
> > > > >
> > > > > Does anyone have any idea where I could find hardcover versions of all
> >the
> > > > > Feist books.
> > > > >
> > > > > I have been searching for ages and all I can find is "Shards of a
> >Broken
> > > > > Crown".
> > > > >
> > > > > I anyone knows anything please let me know.
> > > > >
> > > > > Regards,
> > > > > Kenneth
> > > > >
> > >
>



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From: "James Roberts" <jroberts6@vtown.com.au>
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References: <5.1.0.14.2.20010901104543.0290cec0@127.0.0.1>
Subject: Re: test
Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2001 16:50:54 +1000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Roberts" <jroberts6@vtown.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: test
Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2001 16:50:54 +1000
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Your working, by the way has anyone else on the list got a new PC game out
called Arcanum ? Its a verry good game, like Fallout on acid, ecept it has a
Wild Wild West type feel, with English accents & mages. Verry verry funny.
Anyway just a thought.

Jamie

----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry Siegel" <larry@psihawk.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2001 12:46 AM
Subject: ot : test


> sorry so many tests... just switched providers...
>
> --
> Larry (PsiHawk)
> --
> PsiHawk's Home Page
>      http://www.psihawk.com
> --
> Raymond E Feist FAQ Page
>      http://www.psihawk.com/feist
>



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From: "Jeni Staines" <silverthorn@dragonslave.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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Subject: RE: Hardcover Books
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Date: 2 Sep 2001 07:32:42 -0000
From: "Jeni Staines" <silverthorn@dragonslave.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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Subject: RE: Hardcover Books
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Yes, and don't even think about stealing his collection,
John has hamsters guarding his books night and day - mean
and ferocious (read: cute and cuddly) hamsters!

BTW Ray how does it make you feel to know that something
you created (hardcover books in particular) are so
valuable? I know I would have already toppled over from the
weight of my ego <g> but seriously, you must be bursting
with pride? Anyway, good to see you are still down-to-earth
after all your successes, best of luck always. 

Jen
ICQ 126462365 Fantus (I know, I know, its so original)



On Fri, 31 Aug 2001 19:11:46 -0700 Max Haghighi <maxhag@pacbell.net> wrote:
>Yes:
>
>Go to John Buntings book store.  He has many copies of Feist hardbacks in
>many languages :>
>
>Max
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Kenneth Jones
>Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2001 11:37 PM
>To: FEISTFANS-L
>Subject: Hardcover Books
>
>
>Hi everyone.
>
>Does anyone have any idea where I could find hardcover versions of all the
>Feist books.
>
>I have been searching for ages and all I can find is "Shards of a Broken
>Crown".
>
>I anyone knows anything please let me know.
>
>Regards,
>Kenneth
>
>

________________________________________________________________
Get Free Anime Email, News, Links, Forums and Shopping at http://www.AnimeNation.com



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2001 08:21:19 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Hardcover Books
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On Sunday, September 2, 2001, at 12:32 AM, Jeni Staines wrote:

> Yes, and don't even think about stealing his collection,
> John has hamsters guarding his books night and day - mean
> and ferocious (read: cute and cuddly) hamsters!
>
> BTW Ray how does it make you feel to know that something
> you created (hardcover books in particular) are so
> valuable? I know I would have already toppled over from the
> weight of my ego <g> but seriously, you must be bursting
> with pride? Anyway, good to see you are still down-to-earth
> after all your successes, best of luck always.

Well, the good news is people still want it, which is flattering.  The 
bad news is, they didn't print enough copies the first time around. <g>

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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From: "David Christensen" <damc84@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Question
Date: Sun, 02 Sep 2001 15:53:47 
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From: "David Christensen" <damc84@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Question
Date: Sun, 02 Sep 2001 15:53:47 
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Ray, back when you first decided to write a book, did you decide already 
then that you would do a book set in Midkemia? That Stephen Abrams was the 
one who suggested you write the story of how Greater Path magic came into 
Midkemia is nothing new, but does that mean you were determined to write a 
book set in Midkemia in the first place?

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp



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From: Lore <lorebeef@yahoo.com>
Subject: alt.books.raymond-feist   FAQ address change
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2001 09:24:27 -0700 (PDT)
From: Lore <lorebeef@yahoo.com>
Subject: alt.books.raymond-feist   FAQ address change
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

	Incase you have not been pay attention or have been
ignoring the newsgroups. The PIT's Feist Page has
moved. The new address is found at the bottom of this
post. Not only has The PIT's Feist Page has moved but
my personal art gallery has moved as well. Its address
can be found at the bottom of this post. At the end of
this month the old address will no longer work. Please
update your bookmarks and links. Thank you.

http://w3.cablespeed.com/~jonaitis/

http://w3.cablespeed.com/~jonaitis/feist/index.html


Mailing-List FAQ
http://www.psihawk.com/feist/

Newsgroup-FAQ
http://w3.cablespeed.com/~jonaitis/feist/elis/f_faq.htm

Webring
http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm


_

=====
Lore         beefspit@hotmail.com.edu
             To E-mail me, drop the .edu thingy
         http://users.power-net.net/~jeffjonaitis/

Feist Newsgroup Faq @
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From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: General thoughts on recent list behavious and Honoured Enemy
Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2001 04:55:17 +0800
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*** EOOH ***
From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: General thoughts on recent list behavious and Honoured Enemy
Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2001 04:55:17 +0800
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<phew> is the first thing I must say. I stopped reading the list for a
week or so until I got around to buying and reading HE for fear of
spoilers, even little ones. So now nearly 400 posts later (I just
couldn't read all the D20 ones) I am all caught up again and also happy
having just finished HE earlier tonight.

Now, it seems to me slightly ironic given the context of HE the way the
list has been in recent times. So much tension, so many arguments, so
many of them over simple misunderstandings and so many because people
felt the need to make a point over and over again because they felt
others weren't acknowledging their input. 6 words "Can't we all just get
along" Now I realise this is a little late as the list seems to be all
happy and smiles again for which I am grateful, and why I double checked
this should be going out as Plain Text <grin> Good old courier never
fails.

Now onto the more important topic of HE. I've already gone and posted a
glowing review at amazon.co.uk and given it 5 stars I suppose now I
should put some spoiler space as I want to mention the ending of HE
(primarily the final chapters and epilogue, fairly decent spoilers so be
aware)

S
P
O
I
L
E
R

S
P
A
C
E

S
P
O
I
L
E
R

S
P
A
C
E

It was very much anticipated, but I really enjoyed the nice happy warm
and fuzzy fairy tale ending (note the spelling "Fairy" <grin>). I just
had a feeling Asayaga would be caught on this side with Kasumi once I
began the epilogue and found the war was over. It left you just feeling
all happy inside to know that things worked out in the end and the 2
honoured enemies had become great friends.

It was also a very Feist ending (typically your endings aren't quite
that happy Ray) with the death of some memorable and identifiable
characters such as Alwin, Tinuva, Richard and co. Nobody I've read seems
to be able to kill characters like you do :)

I really liked the way you didn't let Tinuva win, and let by doing so
Bovai lost. It wouldn't have been right for Tinuva to kill Bovai,
unelf-like if that is a word (or even if it isn't a word).

Earlier someone asked if Eledhel could un-return and become moredhel and
you said no. Can a returned Moredhel such as Tinuva un-return to their
old ways as we nearly saw Tinuva do on a few occasions. If he had
perhaps killed Bovai with a song in his heart would it have tipped him
over the edge back into darkness?

The emotions were constantly running high and it really brought you into
the book and got you interested. Thanks Ray, it was worth every dollar.

CW



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2001 14:10:50 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: General thoughts on recent list behavious and Honoured Enemy
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On Sunday, September 2, 2001, at 01:55 PM, David Pengelley wrote:

> <phew> is the first thing I must say. I stopped reading the list for a
> week or so until I got around to buying and reading HE for fear of
> spoilers, even little ones. So now nearly 400 posts later (I just
> couldn't read all the D20 ones) I am all caught up again and also happy
> having just finished HE earlier tonight.
>
> Now, it seems to me slightly ironic given the context of HE the way the
> list has been in recent times. So much tension, so many arguments, so
> many of them over simple misunderstandings and so many because people
> felt the need to make a point over and over again because they felt
> others weren't acknowledging their input. 6 words "Can't we all just get
> along" Now I realise this is a little late as the list seems to be all
> happy and smiles again for which I am grateful, and why I double checked
> this should be going out as Plain Text <grin> Good old courier never
> fails.
>
> Now onto the more important topic of HE. I've already gone and posted a
> glowing review at amazon.co.uk and given it 5 stars I suppose now I
> should put some spoiler space as I want to mention the ending of HE
> (primarily the final chapters and epilogue, fairly decent spoilers so be
> aware)
>
> S
> P
> O
> I
> L
> E
> R
>
> S
> P
> A
> C
> E
>
> S
> P
> O
> I
> L
> E
> R
>
> S
> P
> A
> C
> E
>
> It was very much anticipated, but I really enjoyed the nice happy warm
> and fuzzy fairy tale ending (note the spelling "Fairy" <grin>). I just
> had a feeling Asayaga would be caught on this side with Kasumi once I
> began the epilogue and found the war was over. It left you just feeling
> all happy inside to know that things worked out in the end and the 2
> honoured enemies had become great friends.
>
> It was also a very Feist ending (typically your endings aren't quite
> that happy Ray) with the death of some memorable and identifiable
> characters such as Alwin, Tinuva, Richard and co. Nobody I've read seems
> to be able to kill characters like you do :)
>
> I really liked the way you didn't let Tinuva win, and let by doing so
> Bovai lost. It wouldn't have been right for Tinuva to kill Bovai,
> unelf-like if that is a word (or even if it isn't a word).
>
> Earlier someone asked if Eledhel could un-return and become moredhel and
> you said no. Can a returned Moredhel such as Tinuva un-return to their
> old ways as we nearly saw Tinuva do on a few occasions. If he had
> perhaps killed Bovai with a song in his heart would it have tipped him
> over the edge back into darkness?
>

No.  You seem to have a common misconception about elves, much as some 
Star Trek fans do about Vulcans.  While there are truism about the race, 
there are personal variations within the group.  "Normal" is a range, 
not a point.

Some elves are more short tempered than others, though by human 
standards they're all pretty patience.


> The emotions were constantly running high and it really brought you into
> the book and got you interested. Thanks Ray, it was worth every dollar.
Glad you enjoy it.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.

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From: Roland Eckhardt <havago182@yahoo.com.au>
Subject: Imperial Measurements
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2001 15:19:31 +1000 (EST)
From: Roland Eckhardt <havago182@yahoo.com.au>
Subject: Imperial Measurements
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

As I live in Australia I have not had much contact
with the Imperial measurement system but have read an
endless number books with miles and yards etc..
I was wondering if you could clarify two things for
me.
1. What is the relationship between miles and leagues
etc..
2. What is the relationship between metres and miles
etc..

TIA
Roland

====Change is the essence of being. Ultimately change comes from within.

http://travel.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Travel
- Got Itchy feet? Get inspired!



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From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
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Subject: Elves & Vulcans (was RE: General thoughts on recent list behaviours and Honoured Enemy)
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*** EOOH ***
From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Elves & Vulcans (was RE: General thoughts on recent list behaviours and Honoured Enemy)
Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2001 13:21:51 +0800
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-----Original Message-----
From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Raymond Feist
Sent: Monday, 3 September 2001 5:11 AM
To: FEISTFANS-L
Subject: Re: General thoughts on recent list behavious and Honoured
Enemy

~>> Can a returned moredhel unreturn?
<snip>


> No. You seem to have a common misconception about elves, much as some
> Star Trek fans do about Vulcans. While there are truism about the race,
> there are personal variations within the group. "Normal" is a range, not a point.

> Some elves are more short tempered than others, though by human standards
> they're all pretty patience.


I think it has to do with the pointy ears, it can generate an awful lot
of confusion. I think I understand what you are saying though, just
because a Vulcan goes crazy doesn't mean he is now a Romulan.

And the topic of Star Trek reminds me of something said earlier.
Somebody wanted to convert a book to esperanto, when is the Klingon
edition coming out <grin>

CW



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sun, 02 Sep 2001 23:28:49 -0600
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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Roland Eckhardt wrote:
> 
> 2. What is the relationship between metres and miles

1600 meters to the mile.

Craig J. Ries



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From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
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Subject: RE: Imperial Measurements
Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2001 13:44:19 +0800
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From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Imperial Measurements
Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2001 13:44:19 +0800
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My calculator tells me there are 1.609344 km in a mile so that would be
1609 metres give or take.

As to leagues there is a wealth of information on the web but much of it
differs. Some sites say 3 miles to a league some say 4 or 5, there are
other which say 3, but 3 nautical miles not normal miles. So take your
pick, I'm not sure which exact one Ray had in mind if any at all.  Guess
it just sounds betters to say it's over 100 leagues than over 300 miles,
doesn't make it sounds so bad. Like would you rather walk 1 kilometre or
1000 metres. The second sounds more daunting despite them being the
same.

CW

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu 
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Roland Eckhardt
> Sent: Monday, 3 September 2001 1:20 PM
> To: FEISTFANS-L
> Subject: Imperial Measurements
> 
> 
> As I live in Australia I have not had much contact
> with the Imperial measurement system but have read an
> endless number books with miles and yards etc..
> I was wondering if you could clarify two things for
> me.
> 1. What is the relationship between miles and leagues
> etc..
> 2. What is the relationship between metres and miles
> etc..
> 
> TIA
> Roland
> 
> =====
> Change is the essence of being. Ultimately change comes from within.
> 
http://travel.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Travel
- Got Itchy feet? Get inspired!



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From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
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Subject: Re: Imperial Measurements
Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2001 02:24:18 -0500
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From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Imperial Measurements
Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2001 02:24:18 -0500
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> As I live in Australia I have not had much contact
> with the Imperial measurement system but have read an
> endless number books with miles and yards etc..
> I was wondering if you could clarify two things for
> me.

> 1. What is the relationship between miles and leagues etc..

3 standerd miles to a league (the is the historically correct
number) , 8 furlongs to a standerd mile roughly speaking.  Nautical
miles are a different system.

> 2. What is the relationship between metres and miles etc..

The best answer is km to miles not meters to miles, roughly 1.61
(that is the equasion most of us use when asked to convert in the
states)

So 7 league boots would be about 21 mile boots, or in your case
roughly 34 kM boots.  Personally I like the League but few people
still know what it is, let alone use it.

When doing imperial/metric conversions the only good standerd
measure to use is the inch to cm ration which is 2.54 cm to 1 inch,
the others all come out with three or more decimal places usually.

-James



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From: "Michael Gibson" <gibbyfish@yahoo.com>
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Subject: RE: Imperial Measurements
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From: "Michael Gibson" <gibbyfish@yahoo.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Imperial Measurements
Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2001 08:31:47 +0100
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> My calculator tells me there are 1.609344 km in a mile so that would be
> 1609 metres give or take.
>
> As to leagues there is a wealth of information on the web but much of it
> differs. Some sites say 3 miles to a league some say 4 or 5, there are
> other which say 3, but 3 nautical miles not normal miles. So take your
> pick, I'm not sure which exact one Ray had in mind if any at all.  Guess
> it just sounds betters to say it's over 100 leagues than over 300 miles,
> doesn't make it sounds so bad. Like would you rather walk 1 kilometre or
> 1000 metres. The second sounds more daunting despite them being the
> same.
>
> CW

IIRC, it's 3, but I don't know of what type.  Makes you hope "20,000 Leagues
under the Sea" wasn't meant vertically...

Mike,
Gibfish of the West.
                                          Check out my forums at:
"To question is often intelligent.        http://www.tonrae.co.uk/forums/
To trust rightly is to be inspired."


_________________________________________________________
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Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com



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References: <001201c1343b$7a615b00$2100a8c0@PENGELLEY.COM>
Subject: Re: Imperial Measurements
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From: "Chad" <feistfan@chadkeffer.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Imperial Measurements
Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2001 02:38:05 -0500
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I suppose most of it is relevant to the person doing the measuring.
Before scientific measuring, people used things they could relate to.
Such as measuring the weight of an object in 'stones'.  Likewise, a
cubit was the length between the end of a man's middle finger and his
elbow or about 18-22 inches in today's measurement, a furlong was the
length of one long furrow and eventually ended up at 220 yards, foot
is pretty self-explanatory. League is a distance measurement that
varied in different times and in different countries.  In
English-speaking countries it usually came out to about 3 miles.

- Chad

----- Original Message -----
>From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
>To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
>Sent: Monday, September 03, 2001 12:44 AM
>Subject: RE: Imperial Measurements
>
>
>My calculator tells me there are 1.609344 km in a mile so that would
>be
>1609 metres give or take.
>
>As to leagues there is a wealth of information on the web but much of
>it
>differs. Some sites say 3 miles to a league some say 4 or 5, there are
>other which say 3, but 3 nautical miles not normal miles. So take your
>pick, I'm not sure which exact one Ray had in mind if any at all.
>Guess
>it just sounds betters to say it's over 100 leagues than over 300
>miles,
>doesn't make it sounds so bad. Like would you rather walk 1 kilometre
>or
>1000 metres. The second sounds more daunting despite them being the
>same.
>
>CW
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Roland Eckhardt
>> Sent: Monday, 3 September 2001 1:20 PM
>> To: FEISTFANS-L
>> Subject: Imperial Measurements
>>
>>
>> As I live in Australia I have not had much contact
>> with the Imperial measurement system but have read an
>> endless number books with miles and yards etc..
>> I was wondering if you could clarify two things for
>> me.
>> 1. What is the relationship between miles and leagues
>> etc..
>> 2. What is the relationship between metres and miles
>> etc..
>>
>> TIA
>> Roland
>>
>> =====
>> Change is the essence of being. Ultimately change comes from within.
>>
>http://travel.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Travel
>- Got Itchy feet? Get inspired!
>


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From: "niko korhonen" <biisoni@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Finally!
Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2001 13:09:19 +0000
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Got my copy of HE finally from mail. Already
read the prologue. Sounds promising. It's been
too long since i read any decent fantasy. Okay,
back to reading.
:)

Niko Korhonen
Biisoni@Hotmail.com

'One of the major mistakes people make is that
they think manners are only the expression of
happy ideas.'


_________________________________________________________________
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From: "James Barker" <heechee@softhome.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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----- Original Message -----
From: Michael Gibson <gibbyfish@yahoo.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Monday, September 03, 2001 5:31 PM
Subject: RE: Imperial Measurements

> IIRC, it's 3, but I don't know of what type.  Makes you hope "20,000 Leagues
> under the Sea" wasn't meant vertically...

I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic, so forgive me if you are. :)

The 20,000 leagues mentioned was definitely the length of the voyage,
because IIRC the main protagonist mentions it in the last chapter. I could
be wrong though, I haven't read it in years.

Cheers,
James



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Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2001 07:46:31 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Question
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On Sunday, September 2, 2001, at 03:53 PM, David Christensen wrote:

> Ray, back when you first decided to write a book, did you decide 
> already then that you would do a book set in Midkemia? That Stephen 
> Abrams was the one who suggested you write the story of how Greater 
> Path magic came into Midkemia is nothing new, but does that mean you 
> were determined to write a book set in Midkemia in the first place?


When I began Magician, I first set it in the Kingdom of Crydee, but 
after about a month, I just asked Steve and Jon if I could use Midkemia, 
because the world building had already been done to a large degree.  
They said "sure," and I dumped Crydee on the Far Coast (which was empty 
at the time).  Originally, the plot of Magician was a lot more like 
King's Buccaneer, but when Steve suggested telling the story of how the 
Greater Magic came to Midkemia, all that changed.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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From: "Michael Gibson" <gibbyfish@yahoo.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Imperial Measurements
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> > IIRC, it's 3, but I don't know of what type.  Makes you hope "20,000
> Leagues
> > under the Sea" wasn't meant vertically...
>
> I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic, so forgive me if you are. :)

;)  I was.

> The 20,000 leagues mentioned was definitely the length of the voyage,
> because IIRC the main protagonist mentions it in the last chapter. I could
> be wrong though, I haven't read it in years.

I haven't read it, but when I saw the title, I thought "hang on, that's out the
far side of the earth, and then some... perhaps it's set on Jupiter."

Mike,
Gibfish of the West.
                                          Check out my forums at:
"Sadism can be fun,                       http://www.tonrae.co.uk/forums/
but Masochism is just self-defeating."


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com



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Hey all!!!

I've noticed some of you are talking about Hard backs and are looking for 
some.
does anyone happen to have large editions of Rays books in soft cover.
I bought Shadow of A Dark Queen in this format from a shop in my home town!!
But I have never seen any other books in the same format?? Or the book I 
have.
I know this is nothing interesting but I was just wondering!!
I've also noticed that the Hard backs come out first for a few months and 
they are never seen again, when the small soft ones appear!!
Is there a reason for this??
Anyway enough of my boring E-Mail!!!

Be happy while you are alive, for you're a long time dead!!!

See ya
Suzi
xxx
xx
x


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp



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Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2001 17:27:50 +0100
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Subject: Re: Hard Backs....Again!!
User-Agent: Turnpike/6.00-Beta-7-U (<x5sqXV$6+zj$GDJXMMY4QwhIW3>)
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Mara Acoma <acoma_acoma@hotmail.com> writes
>
>Hey all!!!
>
>I've noticed some of you are talking about Hard backs and are looking 
>for some.
>does anyone happen to have large editions of Rays books in soft cover.
Yup !
>I bought Shadow of A Dark Queen in this format from a shop in my home town!!
>But I have never seen any other books in the same format?? Or the book 
>I have.
They usually appear 6 months after the Hardback and 6 months before the 
paperback. Though those time scales may be shortening
>I've also noticed that the Hard backs come out first for a few months 
>and they are never seen again, when the small soft ones appear!!
>Is there a reason for this??
Marketing

-- 
John

john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.

Raymond E Feist Ring
http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm



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From: "David Christensen" <damc84@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re: Elves & Vulcans (was RE: General thoughts on recent list behaviours and
 Honoured Enemy)
Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2001 17:16:43 
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Subject: Re: Elves & Vulcans (was RE: General thoughts on recent list behaviours and
 Honoured Enemy)
Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2001 17:16:43 
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In the Carse module, there is a character, an elf named Avery of the Green 
Heart, who is working with a band of human brigands. The explaination for 
this given by the module is that a terrible curse has befallen Avery. 
Example of a moredhel-turned-elf? *shrug* Then again one can discuss how 
legitimate the information in the Midkemia RPG modules is.


>From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
>Subject: Elves & Vulcans (was RE: General thoughts on recent list 
>behaviours and Honoured Enemy)
>Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2001 13:21:51 +0800
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Raymond Feist
>Sent: Monday, 3 September 2001 5:11 AM
>To: FEISTFANS-L
>Subject: Re: General thoughts on recent list behavious and Honoured
>Enemy
>
>~>> Can a returned moredhel unreturn?
><snip>
>
>
> > No. You seem to have a common misconception about elves, much as some
> > Star Trek fans do about Vulcans. While there are truism about the
>race,
> > there are personal variations within the group. "Normal" is a range,
>not a point.
>
> > Some elves are more short tempered than others, though by human
>standards
> > they're all pretty patience.
>
>
>I think it has to do with the pointy ears, it can generate an awful lot
>of confusion. I think I understand what you are saying though, just
>because a Vulcan goes crazy doesn't mean he is now a Romulan.
>
>And the topic of Star Trek reminds me of something said earlier.
>Somebody wanted to convert a book to esperanto, when is the Klingon
>edition coming out <grin>
>
>CW
>


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp



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On Monday, September 3, 2001, at 05:16 PM, David Christensen wrote:

> In the Carse module, there is a character, an elf named Avery of the 
> Green Heart, who is working with a band of human brigands. The 
> explaination for this given by the module is that a terrible curse has 
> befallen Avery. Example of a moredhel-turned-elf? *shrug* Then again 
> one can discuss how legitimate the information in the Midkemia RPG 
> modules is.

Actually, it's very legitimate, as I wrote it.  Steve and his then wife 
populated the game of Carse (which is actually the medieval city of 
Carnarvon), but I wrote the text and came up with the backstory.

Avery of the Green Heart (if I remember right after 25 years) was cursed 
by a witch or wizard, which is why he was bent.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2001 10:38:53 -0700
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From: Max Haghighi <maxhag@pacbell.net>
Subject: RE: Hard Backs....Again!!
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2001 10:38:53 -0700
From: Max Haghighi <maxhag@pacbell.net>
Subject: RE: Hard Backs....Again!!
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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John these large edition paperbacks are the trade paper backs I am assuming,
and aren't they only available in the U.K.

Max

-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of John
>Sent: Monday, September 03, 2001 9:28 AM
>To: FEISTFANS-L
>Subject: Re: Hard Backs....Again!!
>
>
>Mara Acoma <acoma_acoma@hotmail.com> writes
>>
>>Hey all!!!
>>
>>I've noticed some of you are talking about Hard backs and are looking
>>for some.
>>does anyone happen to have large editions of Rays books in soft cover.
>Yup !
>>I bought Shadow of A Dark Queen in this format from a shop in my home town!!
>>But I have never seen any other books in the same format?? Or the book
>>I have.
>They usually appear 6 months after the Hardback and 6 months before the
>paperback. Though those time scales may be shortening
>>I've also noticed that the Hard backs come out first for a few months
>>and they are never seen again, when the small soft ones appear!!
>>Is there a reason for this??
>Marketing
>
>--
>John
>
>john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
>http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.
>
>Raymond E Feist Ring
>http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm
>


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Max Haghighi <maxhag@pacbell.net> writes
>John these large edition paperbacks are the trade paper backs I am assuming,
>and aren't they only available in the U.K.
>
>Max

Published by Harper Collins for
UK OZ NZ

Other countries like Holland use them. And of course the US had the 
Magician Trade paperback

-- 
John

john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.

Raymond E Feist Ring
http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm



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1) Do you find it easier to move the timeline forward constantly and to
write about new characters, or do you enjoy writing about the same
characters for awhile?

2) The most amazing thing I've seen so far with your books is that every
other book you're going somewhere new. I can assume you enjoy exploring
new places all the time? I would find it hard to believe that you'd have
difficulties coming up with stories for the same characters and places
:)

Craig J. Ries



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*** EOOH ***
From: "Denis Haex" <denis.haex@hetnet.nl>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: New kid on the list
Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2001 20:46:00 +0200
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Hi all,

Well im probably the first dutch guy on the list... (please correct me
if im wrong)

This mail is just to see if I did everything correct. (hope so)

Denis Haex

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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2001 20:42:49 +0200
From: Erik Trulsson <ertr1013@student.uu.se>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: New kid on the list
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On Mon, Sep 03, 2001 at 08:46:00PM +0200, Denis Haex wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> Well im probably the first dutch guy on the list... (please correct me if im wrong)

You are wrong. :-)
At least according to the list at
http://www.crydee.com/feist/resource/fans/feistfans.htm
there are several dutch people on the list

> 
> This mail is just to see if I did everything correct. (hope so)
> 

Looks like it.  Welcome to the list.

> Denis Haex
> 
> 

-- 
<Insert your favourite quote here.>
Erik Trulsson
ertr1013@student.uu.se



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Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2001 11:55:35 -0700
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2001 11:55:35 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Questions for Ray
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On Monday, September 3, 2001, at 11:26 AM, Craig J. Ries wrote:

> 1) Do you find it easier to move the timeline forward constantly and to
> write about new characters, or do you enjoy writing about the same
> characters for awhile?

No preference.  Each choice has pros and cons.  I enjoy working with 
familiar characters, and I enjoy creating new ones.

>
> 2) The most amazing thing I've seen so far with your books is that every
> other book you're going somewhere new. I can assume you enjoy exploring
> new places all the time? I would find it hard to believe that you'd have
> difficulties coming up with stories for the same characters and places

It's what I do.  I create stories and it doesn't mater if the characters 
are familiar or new, the locations are previously used or not, etc.

Best,R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.

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From: "Denis Haex" <denis.haex@hetnet.nl>
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References: <003b01c134a8$aea9d3c0$8a2d4bd5@pbncomputer> <20010903204249.A3605@student.uu.se>
Subject: Re: New kid on the list
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Denis Haex" <denis.haex@hetnet.nl>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: New kid on the list
Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2001 21:20:40 +0200
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Didn't know that there was a list of everybody... Well there goes the only
dutch guy part


I allready noticed that most of you guys put your favourite quote under the
mail. But that's gonna be a problem because so far I only read the books in
dutch and not yet in english. And I don't want to offent Ray by not quoting
him correctly.

Denis Haex

----- Original Message -----
From: Erik Trulsson <ertr1013@student.uu.se>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Monday, September 03, 2001 8:42 PM
Subject: Re: New kid on the list


> On Mon, Sep 03, 2001 at 08:46:00PM +0200, Denis Haex wrote:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > Well im probably the first dutch guy on the list... (please correct me
> > if im wrong)
>
> You are wrong. :-)
> At least according to the list at
> http://www.crydee.com/feist/resource/fans/feistfans.htm
> there are several dutch people on the list
>
> >
> > This mail is just to see if I did everything correct. (hope so)
> >
>
> Looks like it.  Welcome to the list.
>
> > Denis Haex
> >
> >
>
> --
> <Insert your favourite quote here.>


> Erik Trulsson
> ertr1013@student.uu.se
>



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2001 21:33:25 +0100
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Erik Trulsson <ertr1013@student.uu.se> writes
>On Mon, Sep 03, 2001 at 08:46:00PM +0200, Denis Haex wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> Well im probably the first dutch guy on the list... (please correct 
>>me if im wrong)
>
>You are wrong. :-)
>At least according to the list at
>http://www.crydee.com/feist/resource/fans/feistfans.htm
>there are several dutch people on the list

The location of that file will shortly be moving, within the next week 
:)
I am currently making some improvements to the structure of the site
-- 
John

john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.

Raymond E Feist Ring
http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 12:56:13 +0200 (CEST)
From: Geir Thomassen Flognfeldt <gflognf@online.no>
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Is this one coming through?

Geir

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Subject: Usage of Don Maitz art
Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2001 00:44:07 +1000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Barker" <heechee@softhome.net>
To: feistfans-l@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Usage of Don Maitz art
Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2001 00:44:07 +1000
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To the list in general,

I was recently browing around the 'net in search of another favourite author
of mine, and turned up the following page. It's basically information about
a book by Tim Powers entitled _On Stranger Tides_ (an excellent read, btw).

http://easyweb.easynet.co.uk/~jberlyne/powers/stranger.htm

What interested me, though, was the covers of the international editions,
specifically the Russian edition. If I am not really mistaken, that cover is
Don Maitz's, from the US edition of The King's Buccaneer. Oddly appropriate,
given the slightly similar subject matter of the two (and note I only say
slightly *g*), but still interesting.

Cheers,
James



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 08:19:06 -0700 (PDT)
From: KARL SIMONIAN <karlsimonian@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Usage of Don Maitz art
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


--- James Barker <heechee@softhome.net> wrote:
> To the list in general,
> 
> I was recently browing around the 'net in search of
> another favourite author
> of mine, and turned up the following page. It's
> basically information about
> a book by Tim Powers entitled _On Stranger Tides_
> (an excellent read, btw).
> 
>
http://easyweb.easynet.co.uk/~jberlyne/powers/stranger.htm
> 
> What interested me, though, was the covers of the
> international editions,
> specifically the Russian edition. If I am not really
> mistaken, that cover is
> Don Maitz's, from the US edition of The King's
> Buccaneer. Oddly appropriate,
> given the slightly similar subject matter of the two
> (and note I only say
> slightly *g*), but still interesting.
> 
> Cheers,
> James
> 
I would agree with you. 
That most definately looks like the KINGS BUCCANEER to
me.
I wonder if that's common practice?

Karl

__________________________________________________
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From: Erik Trulsson <ertr1013@student.uu.se>
To: Geir Thomassen Flognfeldt <gflognf@online.no>
Cc: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Test...
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 17:19:49 +0200
From: Erik Trulsson <ertr1013@student.uu.se>
To: Geir Thomassen Flognfeldt <gflognf@online.no>
Cc: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
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On Tue, Sep 04, 2001 at 12:56:13PM +0200, Geir Thomassen Flognfeldt wrote:
> Is this one coming through?
> 
> Geir

No, I am afraid nobody here on the list can see your message. 

:-)


-- 
<Insert your favourite quote here.>
Erik Trulsson
ertr1013@student.uu.se



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Subject: Re: Usage of Don Maitz art
Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2001 01:46:09 +1000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Barker" <heechee@softhome.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Usage of Don Maitz art
Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2001 01:46:09 +1000
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----- Original Message -----
From: KARL SIMONIAN <karlsimonian@yahoo.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2001 1:19 AM
Subject: Re: Usage of Don Maitz art


>
> --- James Barker <heechee@softhome.net> wrote:
> > To the list in general,
> >
> > I was recently browing around the 'net in search of
> > another favourite author
> > of mine, and turned up the following page. It's
> > basically information about
> > a book by Tim Powers entitled _On Stranger Tides_
> > (an excellent read, btw).
> >
> >
> http://easyweb.easynet.co.uk/~jberlyne/powers/stranger.htm
> >
> > What interested me, though, was the covers of the
> > international editions,
> > specifically the Russian edition. If I am not really
> > mistaken, that cover is
> > Don Maitz's, from the US edition of The King's
> > Buccaneer. Oddly appropriate,
> > given the slightly similar subject matter of the two
> > (and note I only say
> > slightly *g*), but still interesting.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > James
> >
> I would agree with you.
> That most definately looks like the KINGS BUCCANEER to
> me.
> I wonder if that's common practice?

I've seen it done before. One example that comes to mind was a cover for an
edition of Dune, by Frank Herbert... The cover showed some particularly
"Dune" story aspects (such as a Fremen and an ornithopter), yet one of the
Powers That Be decided to use the cover again for a lesser novel (can't
think what it was).

Cheers,
James



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Subject: Re: Usage of Don Maitz art
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 16:52:28 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: Usage of Don Maitz art
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At 08:19 AM 9/4/01 -0700, KARL SIMONIAN wrote:
>That most definately looks like the KINGS BUCCANEER to
>me.
>I wonder if that's common practice?

It is.  Just because it was painted originally for tKB,
doesn't mean that the publishers have the copyright.

Don Maitz still owns the rights, so he can sell it as 
a cover as many times as he wants to whoever will buy 
it.

rip



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Subject: Hey Ray...
Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 18:55:04 -0400
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Ryan Rawson" <rrawson7@home.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Hey Ray...
Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 18:55:04 -0400
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Hopefully this hasn't been answered in the past, so I don't get
flamed..but what is the status of Krondor.com?  Its been under
construction for quite a while now.

Also got my copy of HE in the mail today, looking forward to a good
read as always.

-Ryan

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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 16:31:09 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Hey Ray...
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On Tuesday, September 4, 2001, at 03:55 PM, Ryan Rawson wrote:

> Hopefully this hasn't been answered in the past, so I don't get 
> flamed..but what is the status of Krondor.com?  Its been under 
> construction for quite a while now.

It's not "under construction."  That's the generic page you're taken to 
when you go to a non-hosted address that Network Solutions vends.  
Krondor.com was picked up to keep others from using it, because of the 
Krondor game franchise.  When Cendant sold its game division to Havas, 
all game development with Sierra went good by, hence no development on 
the web site.  If anyone else ever licenses the Krondor game franchise, 
then we'll develop the site.
Best,  R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.

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From: "Chris R Hoffman" <krazyman@advnet.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Hey Ray...
Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 23:08:07 -0400
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Chris R Hoffman" <krazyman@advnet.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Hey Ray...
Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 23:08:07 -0400
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I also received my copy of HE today in the mail. I am looking forward to
reading it. Thank you all for your help with the advice with Amazon.co.uk
guys.

Chris
>  -----Original Message-----
>  From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Ryan Rawson
>  Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2001 6:55 PM
>  To: FEISTFANS-L
>  Subject: Hey Ray...
>
>
>  Hopefully this hasn't been answered in the past, so I don't get
>flamed..but what is the status of Krondor.com?  Its been under construction
>for quite a while now.
>
>  Also got my copy of HE in the mail today, looking forward to a good read
>as always.
>
>  -Ryan

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From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Off Topic: The OED
Date: Wed, 05 Sep 2001 09:04:06 -0400
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From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Off Topic: The OED
Date: Wed, 05 Sep 2001 09:04:06 -0400
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We had a nice discussion a while back about the origins and meanings of 
different English words. In any event, I would just like to let you all know 
that if you join, or are a member of, the history book club, you now get a 
FREEEEEEEE online subscription to the OED. GO to www.historybookclub.com to 
sign up. Once you are a member, you can access the OED from the Book Club 
Website. I don't know if you have to be in North  America or not to join but 
it might be worth looking into. Great History Books at a could price and a 
free OED to boot, now that is a deal.

Adieu

Jimmy

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp



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From: "Sonia Tabe" <sonia@nt-tech.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: express yourself.
Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2001 22:44:04 +0930
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*** EOOH ***
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: "Sonia Tabe" <sonia@nt-tech.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: express yourself.
Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2001 22:44:04 +0930
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Hey out there, fellow Feist-fanners.

So. How is everyone? Fine, I trust. So. To the point of the post. In school,
I am about to do an essasy and journal that result in a major part of my
school English mark. One of the three books I am writing about is that
fabulous book, Magician. Anyone care to share with me their thoughts on the
novel? Any aspects I might write about? I'd appreciate any imput from you
all, as you are all dedicated fans with unique views.

In much appreciation, Sonia
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
Est Sularis Oth Mithas



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From: "Peter Karavas" <p_karavas@hotmail.com>
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Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2001 08:56:59 +1000
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To the best list on the NET.

It has been awhile since I have posted, to tied up in my new job, and 
previously I wasn't much of a poster. I know it's been some time, but 
Raymond, thank you for Honoured Enemy. Simply awesome. My girlfriend works 
in a bookstore so I had a copy as soon as it arrived on our Australain 
shores. The next day I had the largest grin on my face as it surpassed all 
expectations and was worth the wait.

Forgive my ignorance as I've been chained to a desk for much to long but...

Question: Any release dates for Conclave??????
Another:  A small token of new characters and old friends who will
          appearances????

Also:

R.E.F wrote.

>"But it's a complete system, not just a construction of modules that plug 
>into another system like GURPS or D20 or AD&D.  Our combat system is 
>different (and I think better than anything else I've seen) as are the rest 
>of the rules, character development, time
>management rules, etc. "

Is there any possible way to be involved/play the midkemian game system?? 
Being a decade long D.M of AD/D new game engines and worlds (especially 
Midkemia) always raise my eyebrow (the right one of-course.)


>The problem with D&D/AD&D was that six sided dice tend to a bathtub
>curve, with 3.5 being your expected value for each die on average.  20
>sided is absolutely flat random, but there are times when you want a
>"curved" result.

Within AD/D you achieve "curved" results by mutliple rolls and rolls like 
percentile. In the example of a D6, a curved result can be achieve by 
rolling 2D6 where you have 36% chance of rolling a 7. Adding dice elevates 
this average roll. For random results the D20 and D100(i.e 2D10, first D10 
is tens second D10 is units.) are by far the best.


>Still, if we ever do consider publishing the game in its entirety we'll
>talk about changes.


What about the Midkemia online game. How can I go about getting a character 
and playing????

Once again, I thank and tip my hat to Raymond, for showing us all that no 
matter how detailed and epic a tale is. You can always add and excell.
Raymond you are by far a master storyteller.

Peter.


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp



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Subject: Re: express yourself.
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Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 09:09:01 +0800
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Shawn Chung <shawnc@cyberway.com.sg>
Subject: Re: express yourself.
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

On Wed, 05 Sep 2001 , Sonia Tabe exclaimed:

>Hey out there, fellow Feist-fanners.
>
>So. How is everyone? Fine, I trust. So. To the point of the post. In school,
>I am about to do an essasy and journal that result in a major part of my
>school English mark. One of the three books I am writing about is that
>fabulous book, Magician. Anyone care to share with me their thoughts on the
>novel? Any aspects I might write about? I'd appreciate any imput from you
>all, as you are all dedicated fans with unique views.
>
>In much appreciation, Sonia
>*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
>Est Sularis Oth Mithas

You'll have to be a bit more specific.

What aspects are you looking at?  Writing style, character development, etc?

Which version of Magician are you writing about, the original or the 
10th Anniversary APE?  There is a number of differences.

Best,
-- 
Shawn Chung

Editor (Singapore)
whatsonwhen limited


MP: +65 96180809
Fx : +65 287 1215
E   :  shawnc@cyberway.com.sg
U   :  http://www.whatsonwhen.com



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2001 00:21:29 -0700
From: Ray Chiang <rchiang@pacbell.net>
Subject: Feistfans-L Information for Newbies
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

=============================================================================
FEISTFANS-L Information for Newbies

Created by Mark Drake.
Currently maintained by Ray Chiang.

Last modified Thursday, September 06, 2001

------------------------------
Subject 1: Where's the FAQ?

The Feistfans-L FAQ can be found at:

    http://www.psihawk.com/feist/

If you don't have web access, but you do have email access, you can
get a copy of the FAQ via email by sending a message to

    feist-faq@psihawk.com

------------------------------
Subject 2: Posting etiquette

The following information gets posted as it becomes available, so don't
pester REF:

- When the next book is coming out
- Miscellaneous Midkemia projects
- When and where REF is going to do book signings
- REF's travel schedule (e.g. COMDEX, E3, etc.)

Also, the following subject matter should generally be avoided, for
various reasons:

- Any combination of REF's books as a movie [see the FAQ]
- Personal Computer/Operating System religious wars [way off-topic]
- The belief that Pug's parents *must* be someone important or powerful
   [see the FAQ]
- Posting stories (fan fiction or otherwise) [can cause copyright
   problems]
- That you don't like the cover of book <x> and REF should choose a
   different cover [Cover art is up to the publisher, not the author]

If you really wish to discuss these "frequently discussed" topics again,
please look at one of the following:

    Feistfans-L Archive
    http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~fellowsd/REF/

    FEISTFANS-L Digest Archive
    http://www.ferkel.co.uk/rip/digests.html

and read through past discussions before rehashing material already discussed.

------------------------------
Subject 3: Can REF come to our town for a book signing?

Not necessarily.  Your best (and only) bet is to convince your local
bookstore to convince REF's current publisher (Avon in the North America,
Harper-Collins in Europe/Australia) to send him to your city for a book
signing.  REF has no control over where he gets sent.

------------------------------
Subject 4: Upcoming books

In the US, _Krondor: Tear of the Gods_ is out in paperback form.
In the UK (e.g. http://amazon.co.uk), Honoured Enemy is available
in hardback.  Presently, there is no contracted US publisher for
current future books.

Future books include the following (in approximate working order):

    - Legends of the Riftwar Series
      + Murder in LaMut, "A murder mystery set in LaMut" with
        Joel Rosenberg (Summer 2002)
      + "A Jimmy the Hand novel" with S. M. Sterling
    - The Conclave of Shadows (set 30-50 years after the end of The Serpentwar
      Saga)
      + Talon of the Silver Hawk (Book 1)
    - Riftwar Legacy
      + Krondor: The Crawler
      + Krondor: The Dark Mage
    - Atlas of Macros the Black--Macro's personal atlas of Midkemia
      (still in the design stage)

The following have been mentioned, but have been put off:

    - Another dark fantasy novel (in the same vein as Faerie Tale)
    - A Sci-Fi Adventure Novel, tentatively titled _The Jigsaw Lady_

Finally, about any Kelewan books:

    *******************************************************************
    ** There are no plans for any more Empire books, with or without **
    ** Janny Wurts.                                                  **
    *******************************************************************

See the Feistfans-L FAQ for more details.

------------------------------
Subject 5: MUSH/MUD/MOO?

RiftMUSH is under development.  For more information, look at the
RiftMUSH Status & News Page at:

     http://www.rift.ironglove.com/

------------------------------
Subject 6: IRC?

You can connect to the #Midkemia channel on DalNet.  For more information,
look at the #Midkemia's IRC FAQ at:

    http://www.psihawk.com/feist/Feist-IRC.html

If you still have problems connecting, send email to Joe Dimech, founder of
the #Midkemia channel at Macros@ntplx.net.

------------------------------
Subject 7: Computer games?

Already published is "Betrayal at Krondor" by Sierra/Dynamix for
DOS/Windows, and "Return to Krondor" by Pyrotechnix and distributed by
Sierra.

Currently, there are no companies working on another Midkemia based
computer game.

------------------------------
Subject 8: How do I unsubscribe? (Or "Help! Its too much mail!")

To unsubscribe from Feistfans-L, send the command

          UNSUBSCRIBE FEISTFANS-L

To the address listproc@cornell.edu.

------------------------------
Subject 9: How do I resubscribe? (Or "I haven't seen any email for a while")

Every once in a while, you might get dropped from the mailing list.  The
best thing to do is to unsubscribe yourself and resubscribe.  This can be
done by sending the following commands:

	UNSUBSCRIBE FEISTFANS-L
	SUBSCRIBE FEISTFANS-L

To the address listproc@cornell.edu.

------------------------------
Subject 10: Was the world of Midkemia originated as a roleplaying game?

Yes.  Presently, the only way to get the original products is to look
at store that sell used gaming material or from Midkemia Press's web
site at:

     http://www.midkemia.com/Products.html

------------------------------
Subject 11: What does WUTNB stand for?

Wait Until the Next Book

------------------------------
Subject 12: What other WWW sites are there?

Raymond E Feist Reference Pages
    http://www.crydee.com/

List of Feist Resources
    http://www.unc.edu/~smrussel/Feist_Resources.html

Donal's Feistfans-L Archive
    http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~fellowsd/REF/

Unofficial Atlas to Midkemia
    http://www.elvandar.com/

Midkemia Press
    http://www.midkemia.com/

Of course, if you want to see more Feist web sites, look at the other
pages linked from the sites above.

=============================================================================



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Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 17:36:51 +1000
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Subject: HE at last
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 17:36:51 +1000
From: Paul Duthie <pjduthie@iprimus.com.au>
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Organization: dd Computing
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: HE at last
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Sep 2001 07:34:42.0649 (UTC) FILETIME=[64C99C90:01C136A6]
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Hello All !

At last I have my copy of Honored Enemy - however, It'll be 2 weeks
before I can read it and another 2 weeks after that before I can tell
you all what I think. The reason ? I'm off to the South Island of New
Zealand on September 21 for 2 weeks and I'm under a 1 book restriction
- so I decided that the one book would be HE.

Looking forward to be able to comment soon !
  

-- 
Best regards,
 Paul                          mailto:pjduthie@iprimus.com.au



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From: "Jason Mulligan" <sulimo@bigpond.net.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Roleplaying in Midkemia questions
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2001 09:58:18 +1000
From: "Jason Mulligan" <sulimo@bigpond.net.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Roleplaying in Midkemia questions
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Doing some thinking about running my own RPG in Midkemia a few
questions have come up.

Firstly, I've been toying with the idea of setting it in the years
beteween the end of 'Darkness at Sethanon' and the start of 'Prince of
the Blood' rather than the time-period of the published RPG
materials. Too this end I've been thinking about constructing a
Kingdom timeline, given that I've never seen years (or months or days
for that matter - given this I assume they are the same as ours, not
that it would make sense given the source of our names for days and
months) mentioned.  So, I was thinking of making the calendar start at
the crowning of Dannis (although I am unsure whether the reference to
Lyam being crowned 750 years after Dannis refers to Dannis crowning or
dannis' death).

Secondly, looking through the Midkemia Press production Towns of the
Outlands, I noticed in one section it has a group of Hobbits occupying
any inn. Is this an abberation, or did Halflings exist in the time
period of the original Midkemia game?




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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 17:13:52 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Roleplaying in Midkemia questions
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On Thursday, September 6, 2001, at 04:58 PM, Jason Mulligan wrote:

> Doing some thinking about running my own RPG in Midkemia a few 
> questions have come
> up.
>
> Firstly, I've been toying with the idea of setting it in the years 
> beteween the end of 'Darkness at
> Sethanon' and the start of 'Prince of the Blood' rather than the 
> time-period of the published RPG
> materials. Too this end I've been thinking about constructing a Kingdom 
> timeline, given that I've
> never seen years (or months or days for that matter - given this I 
> assume they are the same as
> ours, not that it would make sense given the source of our names for 
> days and months) mentioned.
> So, I was thinking of making the calendar start at the crowning of 
> Dannis (although I am unsure
> whether the reference to Lyam being crowned 750 years after Dannis 
> refers to Dannis
> crowning or dannis' death).
>
> Secondly, looking through the Midkemia Press production Towns of the 
> Outlands, I noticed in one
> section it has a group of Hobbits occupying any inn. Is this an 
> abberation, or did Halflings exist in the
> time period of the original Midkemia game?
>
>
>

They existed in the game we played, but like a lot of stuff went bye-bye 
when I started writing novels.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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From: "Jason Mulligan" <sulimo@bigpond.net.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Roleplaying in Midkemia questions
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2001 10:46:58 +1000
From: "Jason Mulligan" <sulimo@bigpond.net.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Roleplaying in Midkemia questions
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

On 6/09/2001 at 5:13 PM Raymond Feist wrote:

>On Thursday, September 6, 2001, at 04:58 PM, Jason Mulligan wrote:
>
>> Doing some thinking about running my own RPG in Midkemia a few 
>> questions have come
>> up.
>>
>> Firstly, I've been toying with the idea of setting it in the years 
>> beteween the end of 'Darkness at
>> Sethanon' and the start of 'Prince of the Blood' rather than the 
>> time-period of the published RPG
>> materials. Too this end I've been thinking about constructing a Kingdom 
>> timeline, given that I've
>> never seen years (or months or days for that matter - given this I 
>> assume they are the same as
>> ours, not that it would make sense given the source of our names for 
>> days and months) mentioned.
>> So, I was thinking of making the calendar start at the crowning of 
>> Dannis (although I am unsure
>> whether the reference to Lyam being crowned 750 years after Dannis 
>> refers to Dannis
>> crowning or dannis' death).
>>
>> Secondly, looking through the Midkemia Press production Towns of the 
>> Outlands, I noticed in one
>> section it has a group of Hobbits occupying any inn. Is this an 
>> abberation, or did Halflings exist in the
>> time period of the original Midkemia game?
>>
>>
>>
>
>They existed in the game we played, but like a lot of stuff went bye-bye 
>when I started writing novels.

Thats what I thought.

On the calendar issue, was there one constructed for Midkemia? Using
the Christian calendar wouldnt seem right. In your work, was not
mentioning the names of days or months or even naming years a
conscious decision or just how it happened with Magician?

Was the reference to Lyams crowning in relation Dannis based on
Dannis' death or his crowning? I'm wondering if a Kingdom time-line
would have a numerical value from a certain year or some other method
(like the chinese (eg: Year of the Ox or whatever)or perhaps the Roman
Empire (eg: The 3rd year of King Dannis).




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From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
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I've not been able to gather alot of information regarding the old RPG
materials out there.

Can anybody give a rundown on the material? Products & where they are
located? when they take place? etc etc.

Craig J. Ries



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<SNIP>
>On the calendar issue, was there one constructed for Midkemia? Using
>the Christian calendar wouldnt seem right. In your work, was not
>mentioning the names of days or months or even naming years a
>conscious decision or just how it happened with Magician?
>
>Was the reference to Lyams crowning in relation Dannis based on
>Dannis' death or his crowning? I'm wondering if a Kingdom time-line
>would have a numerical value from a certain year or some other method
>(like the chinese (eg: Year of the Ox or whatever)or perhaps the
>Roman Empire (eg: The 3rd year of King Dannis).
>
>

From what I remember of Magician/Silverthorn & Darkness at Sethanon, formal
addresses were in the last form, counted from the day that they were crowned.
 i.e. Today is the <day> of the <year> of the reign of our lord King <name>
the <number>.
eg. Today is the Three-Hundredth day of the Third year of the reign of our lord
King Lyam the First.

Not quite sure of the wording but that sounds about right.  I remember this
form of addressing being used in the Royal Court & also during festival speeches
(like banapis in Magician or the birth of Borric & Erland in Darkness at Sethanon)


- MARK



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Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2001 11:46:08 +1000
From: "Jason Mulligan" <sulimo@bigpond.net.au>
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One other thing I've wondered about is languages. The variety of
languages spoken within the borders of the Kingdom in particular.

For instance, in "The Black Tower" there is an NPC (a Vampire-Lesser
Path Magician, named Olman) who speaks Lower Delk among other
languages (including Valheru). What is Lower Delk?

 



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 19:03:09 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Thursday, September 6, 2001, at 05:46 PM, Jason Mulligan wrote:

> On 6/09/2001 at 5:13 PM Raymond Feist wrote:
>
>> On Thursday, September 6, 2001, at 04:58 PM, Jason Mulligan wrote:
>>
>>> Doing some thinking about running my own RPG in Midkemia a few
>>> questions have come
>>> up.
>>>
>>> Firstly, I've been toying with the idea of setting it in the years
>>> beteween the end of 'Darkness at
>>> Sethanon' and the start of 'Prince of the Blood' rather than the
>>> time-period of the published RPG
>>> materials. Too this end I've been thinking about constructing a 
>>> Kingdom
>>> timeline, given that I've
>>> never seen years (or months or days for that matter - given this I
>>> assume they are the same as
>>> ours, not that it would make sense given the source of our names for
>>> days and months) mentioned.
>>> So, I was thinking of making the calendar start at the crowning of
>>> Dannis (although I am unsure
>>> whether the reference to Lyam being crowned 750 years after Dannis
>>> refers to Dannis
>>> crowning or dannis' death).
>>>
>>> Secondly, looking through the Midkemia Press production Towns of the
>>> Outlands, I noticed in one
>>> section it has a group of Hobbits occupying any inn. Is this an
>>> abberation, or did Halflings exist in the
>>> time period of the original Midkemia game?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> They existed in the game we played, but like a lot of stuff went 
>> bye-bye
>> when I started writing novels.
>
> Thats what I thought.
>
> On the calendar issue, was there one constructed for Midkemia? Using 
> the Christian calendar
> wouldnt seem right. In your work, was not mentioning the names of days 
> or months or even naming
> years a conscious decision or just how it happened with Magician?
>
> Was the reference to Lyams crowning in relation Dannis based on Dannis' 
> death or his
> crowning? I'm wondering if a Kingdom time-line would have a numerical 
> value from a certain year
> or some other method (like the chinese (eg: Year of the Ox or 
> whatever)or perhaps the Roman
> Empire (eg: The 3rd year of King Dannis).
>
>
>
Steve and Jon created a really weird calendar with months as short as 
five days and as long as (I believe) thirty nine.  Historically, we had 
no "Mikdemian" calendar for the game, but rather used real time for our 
gaming.

I went with the convention, "In the fifth year of the reign of Mack the 
Fifth!" sort of thing.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 19:04:17 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Thursday, September 6, 2001, at 06:46 PM, Jason Mulligan wrote:

> One other thing I've wondered about is languages. The variety of 
> languages spoken within the borders
> of the Kingdom in particular.
>
> For instance, in "The Black Tower" there is an NPC (a Vampire-Lesser 
> Path Magician,
> named Olman) who speaks Lower Delk among other languages (including 
> Valheru). What
> is Lower Delk?
>
>
>
>

Actually, it's Lower Delkian, which is what they speak in Lower Delk.  
Which is right below Upper Delk.

Now, I haven't the damnest idea where Delk is, but it's somewhere down 
in the bowels of Kesh.

Best, R.E.F.

----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.

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I can say that HE is a book well worth the read...I have just finished it 
and I can say I enjoyed it!!
Ray, you have outdone yourself yet again....I can't wait to read "Conclave 
of Shadows" series!!!!!!
Keep up the good work Ray:)

Luke:)

"In a World of Order, CHAOS Rules!!"


>From: Paul Duthie <pjduthie@iprimus.com.au>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
>Subject: HE at last
>Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 17:36:51 +1000
>
>Hello All !
>
>At last I have my copy of Honored Enemy - however, It'll be 2 weeks
>before I can read it and another 2 weeks after that before I can tell
>you all what I think. The reason ? I'm off to the South Island of New
>Zealand on September 21 for 2 weeks and I'm under a 1 book restriction
>- so I decided that the one book would be HE.
>
>Looking forward to be able to comment soon !
>
>
>--
>Best regards,
>  Paul                          mailto:pjduthie@iprimus.com.au
>


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Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2001 23:56:58 -0600
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: feistfans-l@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Question about a character
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Is the Owen in the Serpentwar Saga the same as the Owen from the game
Betrayal at Krondor, and I assume, Krondor: The Betrayal (I have yet to
get to it)?

K:tB is buried somewhere since I recently moved, otherwise I might just
crack it open and read it next :)

Craig J. Ries



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Subject: Re: Question about a character
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From: "James Barker" <heechee@softhome.net>
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Subject: Re: Question about a character
Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2001 17:04:55 +1000
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----- Original Message -----
From: Craig J. Ries <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L <feistfans-l@cornell.edu>
Sent: Friday, September 07, 2001 3:56 PM
Subject: Question about a character


> Is the Owen in the Serpentwar Saga the same as the Owen from the game
> Betrayal at Krondor, and I assume, Krondor: The Betrayal (I have yet to
> get to it)?
>
> K:tB is buried somewhere since I recently moved, otherwise I might just
> crack it open and read it next :)

Nope, the two are pretty definitely unrelated. For starters, I doubt that
Owen Belefote (Owen in K: tB) would have gone on to be a swordmaster; also,
I think we would have had some hint if Owen Greylock had a magical past.
Plus their names are different :)

Cheers,
James



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From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: The Calendar question
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Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2001 09:12:19 +0100
To: feistfans-l@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: The Calendar question
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Hiya,

This is primary for Jason but I'm sure the rest of you
lot are interested.

I have a script running on my website that displays the
current date and time in the Midkemian Calendar.  
http://www.ferkel.co.uk/cgi/mxeddconv.cgi

At the Royal Rillanon Observatory, The current date is 
9 Kimia 4288, and the time is 04:10:05 

I'm pretty sure the scale is 1::1 in years, not
in seconds...so four years from now is four years
either in the Midkemian or Gregorian calendars.
It might also be scaled 1::1 in seconds, so a 
day is a day, and the Midkemian year is then
only 200 earth days long.

The information is:

my(%MON) = (
  "Banapis"    => 1, 
  "Kimia"      => 18, 
  "Rodec"      => 15,
  "Staphron"   => 10,
  "Natinica"   => 12,
  "Wochem"     => 45,
  "Mid-Winter" => 1,
  "Nuna"       => 11,
  "Agaeis"     => 37,
  "Yamiev"     => 11,
  "Dzanin"     => 39
  );

And that's the order they are in, too, so the second day of
the year is 1 Kimia.



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From: Ray Chiang <rchiang@pacbell.net>
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Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2001 01:24:20 -0700
From: Ray Chiang <rchiang@pacbell.net>
Subject: Re: RPG information?
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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At 06:58 PM 9/6/2001 -0600, Craig J. Ries wrote:
 >
 >Can anybody give a rundown on the material? Products & where they are
 >located? when they take place? etc etc.

How about the FAQ?

     http://www.psihawk.com/feist/feist-faq.html#RPG-Published

There are a few more details at:

     http://www.midkemia.com/Products.html

-Ray



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Subject: Re: The Calendar question
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: The Calendar question
Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2001 03:20:56 -0500
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Rip...you have way, way too much time on your hands to be figuring
out the ratio of days 365:200 in relationship to each other.  Though
I might be inclined to wonder about exactly what day you are citing
as midsummer.  By my calculations midsummer was 45th/46th day of
summer...or August 5th/6th (give or take a day)...so today is the
31st/32nd earth day after midsummer (again give or take a day).
With a ratio of approximately 1.75/1 makes it the 17th/18th of Kimia
(once again..give or take a day, since I don't want to do the
complete math at 3 AM before classes).

This is of course assuming the 1:1 yearly ratio but not the second
ratio...of course I could be really anal and calculate the
rotational spin of the "midkemian" planet and get a more definitive
though on the whole thing...but I think that would place me in the
"Psychotic Fan's" category.

-James

> Hiya,
>
> This is primary for Jason but I'm sure the rest of you
> lot are interested.
>
> I have a script running on my website that displays the
> current date and time in the Midkemian Calendar.
> http://www.ferkel.co.uk/cgi/mxeddconv.cgi
>
> At the Royal Rillanon Observatory, The current date is
> 9 Kimia 4288, and the time is 04:10:05
>
> I'm pretty sure the scale is 1::1 in years, not
> in seconds...so four years from now is four years
> either in the Midkemian or Gregorian calendars.
> It might also be scaled 1::1 in seconds, so a
> day is a day, and the Midkemian year is then
> only 200 earth days long.
>
> The information is:
>
> my(%MON) = (
>   "Banapis"    => 1,
>   "Kimia"      => 18,
>   "Rodec"      => 15,
>   "Staphron"   => 10,
>   "Natinica"   => 12,
>   "Wochem"     => 45,
>   "Mid-Winter" => 1,
>   "Nuna"       => 11,
>   "Agaeis"     => 37,
>   "Yamiev"     => 11,
>   "Dzanin"     => 39
>   );
>
> And that's the order they are in, too, so the second day of
> the year is 1 Kimia.
>



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Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2001 10:00:36 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: The Calendar question
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At 03:20 AM 9/7/01 -0500, James Young wrote:
>Rip...you have way, way too much time on your hands to be figuring
>out the ratio of days 365:200 in relationship to each other. 

um... my($rat) = 200/365;

at 5+ chars/sec, that's a shade under 4 seconds.  For my
next trick, 6th dimensional, complex non-Euclidian geometry. 
Inna bun.

> Though
>I might be inclined to wonder about exactly what day you are citing
>as midsummer.  

That's easy.  "Era" day in Unix-land is 1 January 1970.  So
Banapis, 4250 == 1 Jan 1970 Gregorian.

From the commentary:
# commentary
# The base year might change, as I pulled 4250 out of my hat.  
# This is based on the same idea as ANSI gmtime, in that 
# there is a base 'time' that seconds are counted from... in 
# the case of unix, it is 00:00:00 01Jan1970.  In our case it 
# is 00:00:00 Banapis, 4250.
# 
# I've adjusted the length of the second to make a 
# year(m) == year(e), so that an n-year old on Midkemia 
# would be an n-year old on earth.  To change it back, set 
# $SKEW=1 instead of 200/365.  Setting SKEW==1 treats days to 
# be equal to days, so day(m) == day(y).  But this means that 
# a 14 year-old in Crydee being presented to the choosing,
# he would be 25 on earth!

By my calculations midsummer was 45th/46th day of
summer...or August 5th/6th (give or take a day)...so today is the
31st/32nd earth day after midsummer (again give or take a day).
With a ratio of approximately 1.75/1 makes it the 17th/18th of Kimia
(once again..give or take a day, since I don't want to do the
complete math at 3 AM before classes).

Except you are assuming that Earth (Northern Hemisphere) Summer
falls at the exact same time as Midkemian (Northern Hemisphere)
Summer.  Odds approaching null.  And you've also just dissed
the list Antipodeans (Antipods? Antipodes? Antipodiots? heh 
*ducks*)...There summer is just as valid as any other on 
Earth.  But I think we should put that down to it being
3 AM where you are at (or 5:45, in Krondor).

>but I think that would place me in the "Psychotic Fan's" category.

And I'm not?

rip



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From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: The Calendar question
Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2001 04:40:53 -0500
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>  Though
> I might be inclined to wonder about exactly what day you are citing
> as midsummer.
>
> That's easy.  "Era" day in Unix-land is 1 January 1970.  So
> Banapis, 4250 == 1 Jan 1970 Gregorian.

Since when did Era exceed the value of any other described date?

> By my calculations midsummer was 45th/46th day of
> summer...or August 5th/6th (give or take a day)...so today is the
> 31st/32nd earth day after midsummer (again give or take a day).
> With a ratio of approximately 1.75/1 makes it the 17th/18th of Kimia
> (once again..give or take a day, since I don't want to do the
> complete math at 3 AM before classes).
>
> Except you are assuming that Earth (Northern Hemisphere) Summer
> falls at the exact same time as Midkemian (Northern Hemisphere)
> Summer.  Odds approaching null.  And you've also just dissed
> the list Antipodeans (Antipods? Antipodes? Antipodiots? heh
> *ducks*)...There summer is just as valid as any other on
> Earth.  But I think we should put that down to it being
> 3 AM where you are at (or 5:45, in Krondor).

     Actually contrary to belief summer is more than a relation to
the amount of heat the earth recieves, it has to do with the angle
of the direct rays of the sun in relation to the earth, it just
happens to be hotter (despite being father from the Sun).  In the
case of the Northern hemisphere, that happens to be easily
comperable to a similarly tilted planet.  One would assume that
Midkemia has a tilt of some sort (all the planets I know of do), and
so would have a time when that would be viable.  Besides we know the
Kingdom is in the Northern Hemisphere, so the seasonal variation at
similar latitudes should be remotely comperable on a global
scale...if not on a local, regional, or continental scale. I think
it is prefectly acceptable to look at it from a similar point of
view.
     As for dissing anothers summer, I might point out that summer
as a season is actually not even universially refered to.  Some
countries do not even have a "summer" as it were.  They refer to it
as monsoonal weather, ie. wet and dry (convienient isn't it).  Hense
why I think of summer as a relationship between the earth's axis and
the sun's direct rays on the earth.  This of course goes along with
the truth in Meteorology that there is no such thing as Hot or
Cold...it is either hotter or colder, but never hot or cold.  All is
relative.
     Though realisitically given my understanding of religion, they
would have probably figured out the Equinoxes and the Solstices
fairly well in midkemia and so would probably refer to the Solstice
of the Summer as Banapis... whereas the winter would be the
corrisponding "Mid-winter" festival.  That of course would make the
date in Midkemia something akin to a yearly discrepancy of 9 days to
adjust from 182/100 to account for our Solstices being of center as
it were.  So today would probably be 78 days after solstice, which
adjusting for Midkemia would be about 44 days after Banapis, or
Natinica 1.  Give or take, and again assuming that thier solstices
came on the same "day" as ours.

I'll quite rambling now.

> >but I think that would place me in the "Psychotic Fan's" category.
>
> And I'm not?

I'm not speaking for you.

> rip

-James



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Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2001 11:52:24 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: The Calendar question
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At 04:40 AM 9/7/01 -0500, James Young wrote:
>>  Though
>> I might be inclined to wonder about exactly what day you are
>citing
>> as midsummer.
>>
>> That's easy.  "Era" day in Unix-land is 1 January 1970.  So
>> Banapis, 4250 == 1 Jan 1970 Gregorian.
>
>Since when did Era exceed the value of any other described date?

That bothered me to e'en as I wrote it.  When I did the
script I asked Steve Abrams about the 4250 year and he
said that it was as good as any other...and I just used
Banapis because it marks the year change (while not 
necessarily belonging either to the outgoing year or
the incoming one).

The Midkemian calendar begins with one solstice (the
"lot of sun" one), and the Gregorian with the other
(the "not so much sun as the other" one).  Which would 
make the calendars 180 degrees out of whack.  Assuming
the same start date ;->.  Given that, and this:

>     Actually contrary to belief summer is more than a relation to
>the amount of heat the earth recieves, it has to do with the angle
>of the direct rays of the sun in relation to the earth, it just
>happens to be hotter (despite being father from the Sun).  In the

Good point.  I'd forgotten about that.

>     Though realisitically given my understanding of religion, they
>would have probably figured out the Equinoxes and the Solstices
>fairly well in midkemia and so would probably refer to the Solstice
>of the Summer as Banapis... whereas the winter would be the
>corrisponding "Mid-winter" festival.  That of course would make the
>date in Midkemia something akin to a yearly discrepancy of 9 days to
>adjust from 182/100 to account for our Solstices being of center as
>it were.  So today would probably be 78 days after solstice, which

Ok so far.

>adjusting for Midkemia would be about 44 days after Banapis, or
>Natinica 1.  Give or take, and again assuming that thier solstices
>came on the same "day" as ours.

I would agree up to the point where you use Banapis.  I would
argue that (due to the 180 degree point of view change) that
it would be 44 days after Mid-Winter, or 33 Agaeis, give or
take... I note in passing also that I write the dates DD Mon,
and you Mon DD.  Sounds like a good topic for a religious
war.  What color hat are you wearing? 

>I'll quit rambling now.

We're you?  I felt it was 100% germane.

>> >but I think that would place me in the "Psychotic Fan's"
>category.
>>
>> And I'm not?
>
>I'm not speaking for you.

ROFL!

rip



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Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2001 12:26:50 +0100
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Couldn't leave well enough alone, could we...

But it helped that I had someone to beat me about the head
for a moment until it made sense.  Then I checked the script.

I had the skew backwards *grumbles*.  Anyway, it is now:

At the Royal Rillanon Observatory, 
the current date is 31 Agaeis 4376, 
and the time is 14:24:05

Ok, now I'm happy with it.

rip



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Subject: Re: express yourself.
Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2001 22:17:51 +0930
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From: "Sonia Tabe" <sonia@nt-tech.com.au>
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Subject: Re: express yourself.
Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2001 22:17:51 +0930
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Too easy. I'm writing about the 10th Anniversery edition of the book. That's
the only one I've ever seen. Incidently, it is the two novels in one, not
Magician: Apprentice and Magician: Master books.


~Sonia

----- Original Message -----
From: Shawn Chung <shawnc@cyberway.com.sg>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2001 10:39 AM
Subject: Re: express yourself.


> On Wed, 05 Sep 2001 , Sonia Tabe exclaimed:
>
> >Hey out there, fellow Feist-fanners.
> >
> >So. How is everyone? Fine, I trust. So. To the point of the post. In school,
> >I am about to do an essasy and journal that result in a major part of my
> >school English mark. One of the three books I am writing about is that
> >fabulous book, Magician. Anyone care to share with me their thoughts on the
> >novel? Any aspects I might write about? I'd appreciate any imput from you
> >all, as you are all dedicated fans with unique views.
> >
> >In much appreciation, Sonia
> >*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
> >Est Sularis Oth Mithas
>
> You'll have to be a bit more specific.
>
> What aspects are you looking at?  Writing style, character development, etc?
>
> Which version of Magician are you writing about, the original or the
> 10th Anniversary APE?  There is a number of differences.
>
> Best,
> --
> Shawn Chung
>
> Editor (Singapore)
> whatsonwhen limited
>
>
> MP: +65 96180809
> Fx : +65 287 1215
> E   :  shawnc@cyberway.com.sg
> U   :  http://www.whatsonwhen.com
>



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From: "Mara Acoma" <acoma_acoma@hotmail.com>
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Hello Raymond,
             Lord of the rings is coming out soon here in the UK.(Dec I 
think) I have seen previews of it and it looks good. However films never 
seem to be able to capture that........special something that makes the book 
so great. Its one persons interpretation of that book. and I have found that 
books converted to film can actually ruin that special something. I feel 
books are a private thing, its great discussing them and enjoying them with 
others. But broadcasting this one view all over the world kills the readers 
imagination when reading the book. We are shown what an elf looks like, we 
are shown how a magic fire ball is casted, we are shown what a troll looks 
like. It steals the imagination from the reader and the readers own view of 
what the world in the book should be like.
For example one of my Favourate books of all time is Dune. now I had read 
all six books first before I saw the film. But when I did eventually watch 
the film it just wasn't right. It wasn't how I imagined it. But its ok for 
me because I experienced the wonder of the book using my imagination, but 
people who watch the film then read the books have set views on how 
everything works and thus don't have that connection that I had.
Basically the point is, Tolkien was the first in his field, he had an 
imagination well before his time. And LOTR is a classic. I just hope they 
don't make a balls of it thats all. I don't want to watch it, but I am 
afriad my curiosity will get the better of me.
I also hope that you don't make any films based on your books.
I love all your work and have grown to love all the charcters you have 
created. Please don't let some Holly Wood Producer kill that specialness 
that your books have. It would be a great shame!!
thanks for taking the time to read this. I hope you understand what I mean!!
Thanks again
M.A
x


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp



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From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Thursday, September 6, 2001, at 10:56 PM, Craig J. Ries wrote:

> Is the Owen in the Serpentwar Saga the same as the Owen from the game
> Betrayal at Krondor, and I assume, Krondor: The Betrayal (I have yet to
> get to it)?
>
> K:tB is buried somewhere since I recently moved, otherwise I might just
> crack it open and read it next :)
>
> Craig J. Ries
>
>

No.  Owen Greylock is not the same character.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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On Friday, September 7, 2001, at 01:12 AM, Richard Williamson wrote:

> Hiya,
>
> This is primary for Jason but I'm sure the rest of you
> lot are interested.
>
> I have a script running on my website that displays the
> current date and time in the Midkemian Calendar.
> http://www.ferkel.co.uk/cgi/mxeddconv.cgi
>
> At the Royal Rillanon Observatory, The current date is
> 9 Kimia 4288, and the time is 04:10:05
>
> I'm pretty sure the scale is 1::1 in years, not
> in seconds...so four years from now is four years
> either in the Midkemian or Gregorian calendars.
> It might also be scaled 1::1 in seconds, so a
> day is a day, and the Midkemian year is then
> only 200 earth days long.
>
> The information is:
>
> my(%MON) = (
>   "Banapis"    => 1,
>   "Kimia"      => 18,
>   "Rodec"      => 15,
>   "Staphron"   => 10,
>   "Natinica"   => 12,
>   "Wochem"     => 45,
>   "Mid-Winter" => 1,
>   "Nuna"       => 11,
>   "Agaeis"     => 37,
>   "Yamiev"     => 11,
>   "Dzanin"     => 39
>   );
>
> And that's the order they are in, too, so the second day of
> the year is 1 Kimia.
>
>
Actually, it's the first, as Banapis doesn't belong to any year.  It's 
weird, I know, but then so are Steve and Jon given half a chance.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2001 10:00:40 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Friday, September 7, 2001, at 09:36 AM, Mara Acoma wrote:

> [snip]

Your concerns are common to many readers.

The fact is I don't make movies.  But if Hollywood wants to throw money 
at me, I'll be happy to take the cash.

The book won't change one word on one page because the movie is great or 
horrible.

Speaking of Dune, I thought the mini-series done last year was great.  I 
have the DVD of it and think it does justice to the novel.  They're 
going forward with Children of Dune (so I guess it's going to cover Dune 
Messiah and CoD).  I look forward to seeing it.

The David Lynch film of Dune was . . . interesting.  I could see some of 
what he was trying to do and it didn't work, but it was an interesting, 
failed attempt.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.

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Hi Ray

If you'd based Magician et al in the kingdom of Crydee, would it (or later
books) have been very different?  Or was it so early on in the writing process
when Steve suggested you use Midkemia, that you didn't have much worked out?

Also, had you planned to write from an early age, or did you just take advantage
of the free time you suddenly had on your hands?

Mike,
Gibfish of the West.
                                          Check out my forums at:
"To question is often intelligent.        http://www.tonrae.co.uk/forums/
To trust rightly is to be inspired."


_________________________________________________________
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Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2001 12:46:10 -0600
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Question about a character
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James Barker wrote:
> 
> Nope, the two are pretty definitely unrelated. For starters, I doubt that
> Owen Belefote (Owen in K: tB) would have gone on to be a swordmaster; also,
> I think we would have had some hint if Owen Greylock had a magical past.
> Plus their names are different :)

Ahh, I might've noticed that sooner if I had known the surname of the
Owen from K:tB :)

What made me curious was that at one point, Owen is mentioned to be
practicing a flute, and the Owen from Betrayal at Krondor was a bard :)

Although, there's nothing to say he couldn't have become a swordmaster
or anything. Erik was a smith and becomes a soldier. :)

Craig J. Ries



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From: "C.T. Cusimano" <supert@redshift.com>
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Subject: magic items
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From: "C.T. Cusimano" <supert@redshift.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: magic items
Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2001 11:52:08 -0700
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how rare are magic items in midkemia?
how powerful does a lesser path magician or a sorceror need to be to make
one?
could kulgan have made duke borric magic armor for instance?
or are magic weapons and armors (magic swords bows chainmail etc.) use
frowned upon by the nobles of kingdom and kesh
could a particularly wealthy noble outfit his garrison with magical
accoutrements for a eltite core.

the onyl magic items I remember in the books are:
aruthas sword from darkness (but the magic bled out of it between the
betrayal and serpentwar?)
thomas weapons and armor
the tsurani movement orbs
and the crystal that kulgan then pug has made by a magiian in carse
and the hammer of tholin

did this not fit into the books stories in general (magic items for the
characters) or does it not fit the flavor of midkemia for them to be more
prevalent at thte times the books were written?



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Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2001 13:07:24 -0600
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
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Ray Chiang wrote:
> 
> How about the FAQ?

Ahh, up until now, I had apparently missed the link for the complete
FAQ.

Mostly I was just interested in what time period the games take place in
in relation to the books. I have found my answer, or atleast as good as
one I can expect :)

Craig J. Ries



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2001 12:13:00 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: The Kingdom of Crydee
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On Friday, September 7, 2001, at 11:21 AM, Michael Gibson wrote:

> Hi Ray
>
> If you'd based Magician et al in the kingdom of Crydee, would it (or 
> later
> books) have been very different?  Or was it so early on in the writing 
> process
> when Steve suggested you use Midkemia, that you didn't have much worked 
> out?

Actually, it was early on I suggested I use Midkemia as I found world 
building for the game and the book at the same time tedious.  Anyway, 
the story would have been very much what you read in King's Buccaneer, 
with Arutha doing Nicholasbut with obvious differences in the 
relationship because of rank/station/personality.   Pug would have 
fallen in love with Carline during the rescue, etc.
>
> Also, had you planned to write from an early age, or did you just take 
> advantage
> of the free time you suddenly had on your hands?
>

I never planned on being a writer until I started writing.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.

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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2001 12:14:19 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: magic items
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On Friday, September 7, 2001, at 11:52 AM, C.T. Cusimano wrote:

> how rare are magic items in midkemia?
> how powerful does a lesser path magician or a sorceror need to be to 
> make
> one?
> could kulgan have made duke borric magic armor for instance?
> or are magic weapons and armors (magic swords bows chainmail etc.) use
> frowned upon by the nobles of kingdom and kesh
> could a particularly wealthy noble outfit his garrison with magical
> accoutrements for a eltite core.
>
> the onyl magic items I remember in the books are:
> aruthas sword from darkness (but the magic bled out of it between the
> betrayal and serpentwar?)
> thomas weapons and armor
> the tsurani movement orbs
> and the crystal that kulgan then pug has made by a magiian in carse
> and the hammer of tholin
>
> did this not fit into the books stories in general (magic items for the
> characters) or does it not fit the flavor of midkemia for them to be 
> more
> prevalent at thte times the books were written?
>
>

Magic items are rarer in my books than in the game.

TO make magic items you need to be an Artificer specialist Lesser Path, 
which Athelfain of Carse (who was mentioned in Magician) is, but which 
Kulgan isn't.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Subject: Re: The Calendar question
Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2001 19:53:29 -0500
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From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: The Calendar question
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> That bothered me to e'en as I wrote it.  When I did the
> script I asked Steve Abrams about the 4250 year and he
> said that it was as good as any other...and I just used
> Banapis because it marks the year change (while not
> necessarily belonging either to the outgoing year or
> the incoming one).

Eh makes sense...sort of. :P

> The Midkemian calendar begins with one solstice (the
> "lot of sun" one), and the Gregorian with the other
> (the "not so much sun as the other" one).  Which would
> make the calendars 180 degrees out of whack.  Assuming
> the same start date ;->.  Given that, and this:

True.

> >     Actually contrary to belief summer is more than a relation to
> >the amount of heat the earth recieves, it has to do with the angle
> >of the direct rays of the sun in relation to the earth, it just
> >happens to be hotter (despite being father from the Sun).  In the
>
> Good point.  I'd forgotten about that.

I got it beat into my head by my Atmospheric Patterns Prof.  I'll
not try and cudgel you with the information.

> >     Though realisitically given my understanding of religion, they
> >would have probably figured out the Equinoxes and the Solstices
> >fairly well in midkemia and so would probably refer to the Solstice
> >of the Summer as Banapis... whereas the winter would be the
> >corrisponding "Mid-winter" festival.  That of course would make the
> >date in Midkemia something akin to a yearly discrepancy of 9 days to
> >adjust from 182/100 to account for our Solstices being of center as
> >it were.  So today would probably be 78 days after solstice, which
>
> Ok so far.
>
> >adjusting for Midkemia would be about 44 days after Banapis, or
> >Natinica 1.  Give or take, and again assuming that thier solstices
> >came on the same "day" as ours.
>
> I would agree up to the point where you use Banapis.  I would
> argue that (due to the 180 degree point of view change) that
> it would be 44 days after Mid-Winter, or 33 Agaeis, give or
> take... I note in passing also that I write the dates DD Mon,
> and you Mon DD.  Sounds like a good topic for a religious
> war.  What color hat are you wearing?

Point taken.  (about banapis anyway.)  And if you must know I am
wearing a black hat with blue letters and gold trim (UCLA BRUINS) -
Entirely to piss of the locals here in Alabama (where college
football is a religion, and my fahter's UCLA team beat them, on
their field by 20-17, on September 1st, 2001)   8-P

> >I'll quit rambling now.
>
> We're you?  I felt it was 100% germane.

Hmmm, I don't know.  I was in a fog...being sick and sleep deprived
does that you know.

>>>>but I think that would place me in the "Psychotic Fan's" category.
> >>
> >> And I'm not?
> >
> >I'm not speaking for you.
>
> ROFL!

<smirk>

-James



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From: "Darren McClung" <d@dwmc.org>
To: <feistfans-l@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: OT: Green flash in sky
Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2001 02:31:46 -0500
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Darren McClung" <d@dwmc.org>
To: <feistfans-l@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: OT: Green flash in sky
Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2001 02:31:46 -0500
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Well, we've discussed this a little before, and I just happened to see it
today.  In Kansas City we had a fairly severe thunderstorm this evening.  A
friend and I were driving around admiring the frequenty lightning.  Then,
all of the sudden, the sky lit up in a bright traffic-signal-green flash,
not once, but TWICE.  It was amazing.  Does anyone know if this the same
phenomenon that Ray has talked about before, or is this something different
entirely?  To see the night sky fully illuminated in a deep green light was
simply incredible.

Take care,

Darren




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To: Dylan <dylan@dylan32.fsnet.co.uk>
From: John <john@magic-box.freeserve.co.uk>
Subject: Re: ebay - riftwar saga
References: <002401c13847$f5db2da0$6b1c893e@b7c1r7>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2001 13:22:18 +0100
To: Dylan <dylan@dylan32.fsnet.co.uk>
From: John <john@magic-box.freeserve.co.uk>
Subject: Re: ebay - riftwar saga
User-Agent: Turnpike/6.00-Beta-7-U (<x5sqXV$6+zj$GDJXMMY4QwhIW3>)
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In message <002401c13847$f5db2da0$6b1c893e@b7c1r7>, Dylan 
<dylan@dylan32.fsnet.co.uk> writes
>Hi,
> 
>You've just won:
>Raymond E Feist - Riftwar Fantasy Paperbacks : £1.00
> 
>
>UK postage is £2.00
>International postage is $8.00
> 
>UK residents may pay via paypal (ID dylan@dylan32.fsnet.co.uk), or
>send a cheque made payable to 'Dylan Thomas' with item and address
>details to:
> 
>Dylan Thomas
>33 Llewellyn street
>Glynneath
>West Glamorgan
>South Wales
>SA11 5AF
>UK
> 
>International bidders can pay using paypal,
>or we can discuss alternative payment methods.
> 
>Cheers,
>Dylan
Cheque will go out Monday

best
-- 
John Bunting
4, Springfield Road
Sittingbourne
Kent
ME10 2NB
England



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From: "Magnus Arvidsson" <magnus.arvidsson75@telia.com>
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References: <002401c13847$f5db2da0$6b1c893e@b7c1r7> <YpI8jXA61gm7EwFr@cableinet.co.uk>
Subject: Re: ebay - riftwar saga
Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2001 14:37:23 +0200
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Magnus Arvidsson" <magnus.arvidsson75@telia.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: ebay - riftwar saga
Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2001 14:37:23 +0200
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John, I wasnt supposed to recieve this mail Im certain of it.. =)
Make sure this Dylan person gets it instead,

Magnus

----- Original Message -----
From: "John" <john@magic-box.freeserve.co.uk>
To: "Dylan" <dylan@dylan32.fsnet.co.uk>
Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2001 2:22 PM
Subject: Re: ebay - riftwar saga


> In message <002401c13847$f5db2da0$6b1c893e@b7c1r7>, Dylan
> <dylan@dylan32.fsnet.co.uk> writes
> >Hi,
> >
> >You've just won:
> >Raymond E Feist - Riftwar Fantasy Paperbacks : £1.00
> >
> >
> >UK postage is £2.00
> >International postage is $8.00
> >
> >UK residents may pay via paypal (ID dylan@dylan32.fsnet.co.uk), or
> >send a cheque made payable to 'Dylan Thomas' with item and address
> >details to:
> >
> >Dylan Thomas
> >33 Llewellyn street
> >Glynneath
> >West Glamorgan
> >South Wales
> >SA11 5AF
> >UK
> >
> >International bidders can pay using paypal,
> >or we can discuss alternative payment methods.
> >
> >Cheers,
> >Dylan
> Cheque will go out Monday
>
> best
> --
> John Bunting
> 4, Springfield Road
> Sittingbourne
> Kent
> ME10 2NB
> England
>



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From: John <john@crydee.com>
Subject: Re: ebay - riftwar saga
References: <002401c13847$f5db2da0$6b1c893e@b7c1r7>
 <YpI8jXA61gm7EwFr@cableinet.co.uk> <000701c13863$026b78c0$ad5541d5@telia.com>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2001 13:45:52 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: John <john@crydee.com>
Subject: Re: ebay - riftwar saga
User-Agent: Turnpike/6.00-Beta-7-U (<x5sqXV$6+zj$GDJXMMY4QwhIW3>)
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Magnus Arvidsson <magnus.arvidsson75@telia.com> writes
>John, I wasnt supposed to recieve this mail Im certain of it.. =)
>Make sure this Dylan person gets it instead,
>
>Magnus
Sorry about that, looks like my mail program crashed and corrupted the 
address Please ignore and do not follow up.

-- 
John

john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.

Raymond E Feist Ring
http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2001 08:26:02 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: ebay - riftwar saga
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Saturday, September 8, 2001, at 05:22 AM, John wrote:

> In message <002401c13847$f5db2da0$6b1c893e@b7c1r7>, Dylan 
> <dylan@dylan32.fsnet.co.uk> writes
>> Hi,
>>  
>> You've just won:
>> Raymond E Feist - Riftwar Fantasy Paperbacks : £1.00
>>  
>>
>> UK postage is £2.00
>> International postage is $8.00
>>  
>> UK residents may pay via paypal (ID dylan@dylan32.fsnet.co.uk), or
>> send a cheque made payable to 'Dylan Thomas' with item and address
>> details to:
>>  
>> Dylan Thomas
>> 33 Llewellyn street
>> Glynneath
>> West Glamorgan
>> South Wales
>> SA11 5AF
>> UK
>>  
>> International bidders can pay using paypal,
>> or we can discuss alternative payment methods.
>>  
>> Cheers,
>> Dylan
> Cheque will go out Monday
>
> best
> -- John Bunting
> 4, Springfield Road
> Sittingbourne
> Kent
> ME10 2NB
> England
>
>

Two things strike me.

It's a bargain, but what do you need more copies for?

And how long as a dead Welsh poet been in the book business?

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Subject: Ray Feist Forums
Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2001 17:30:49 +0100
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From: "julian_c" <julian_c@ntlworld.com>
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Subject: Ray Feist Forums
Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2001 17:30:49 +0100
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Hey all,

I've just finished a new set of forums for each of Ray's fantastic
books. Plz feel free to start posting. I would also love some feedback
as i'm not sure about the colour scheme.

You can find it here:
http://pub95.ezboard.com/braymondefeistsriftwars

Cheers
Xacros

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Subject: Re: ebay - riftwar saga
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Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com> writes
>Two things strike me.
>
>It's a bargain, but what do you need more copies for?
>
Usually reference books, as I am still working on a bibliography, but 
some are gifts to friends to read. You don't think I would let them get 
their hands on my personal copies do you ? <G>

-- 
John

john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.

Raymond E Feist Ring
http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm



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Subject: Re: Green flash in sky
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From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Green flash in sky
Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2001 12:06:58 -0500
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Meteorologically speaking that may have been a different flash which
is common to thunder storms where there is high probability of
tornado activity and super cells (KS I-35 was under a 35% chance of
tornadoes last night).  It has to do with a combination of factors,
but that doesn't include the sun, whereas the green flash at sun set
is an effect of the refraction of the light from the sun.  Frankly,
both are spectacular.

-James
(I was doing a severe weather study yesterday for my Meteorology
Prof.)

----- Original Message -----

> Well, we've discussed this a little before, and I just happened to see it
> today.  In Kansas City we had a fairly severe thunderstorm this evening.  A
> friend and I were driving around admiring the frequenty lightning. Then,
> all of the sudden, the sky lit up in a bright traffic-signal-green flash,
> not once, but TWICE.  It was amazing.  Does anyone know if this the same
> phenomenon that Ray has talked about before, or is this something different
> entirely?  To see the night sky fully illuminated in a deep green light was
> simply incredible.
>
> Take care,
>
> Darren
>
>



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Subject: Re: magic items
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From: "C.T. Cusimano" <supert@redshift.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: magic items
Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2001 11:47:30 -0700
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thanks for the answer
I was always wondering why the magicians never hooked some of their friends
up
seems that if your buddy was saving the world and fighting demons and
elementals and liches and what not they could use a lil extra help 8?)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Raymond Feist" <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Friday, September 07, 2001 12:14 PM
Subject: Re: magic items


>
> On Friday, September 7, 2001, at 11:52 AM, C.T. Cusimano wrote:
>
> > how rare are magic items in midkemia?
> > how powerful does a lesser path magician or a sorceror need to be to
> > make
> > one?
> > could kulgan have made duke borric magic armor for instance?
> > or are magic weapons and armors (magic swords bows chainmail etc.) use
> > frowned upon by the nobles of kingdom and kesh
> > could a particularly wealthy noble outfit his garrison with magical
> > accoutrements for a eltite core.
> >
> > the onyl magic items I remember in the books are:
> > aruthas sword from darkness (but the magic bled out of it between the
> > betrayal and serpentwar?)
> > thomas weapons and armor
> > the tsurani movement orbs
> > and the crystal that kulgan then pug has made by a magiian in carse
> > and the hammer of tholin
> >
> > did this not fit into the books stories in general (magic items for the
> > characters) or does it not fit the flavor of midkemia for them to be
> > more
> > prevalent at thte times the books were written?
> >
> >
>
> Magic items are rarer in my books than in the game.
>
> TO make magic items you need to be an Artificer specialist Lesser Path,
> which Athelfain of Carse (who was mentioned in Magician) is, but which
> Kulgan isn't.
>
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
>
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
> stupidity.
>



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Great idea for a site.

Only minus point is that occasionally (on my old 15" screen),
sometimes I can't read a certain word because the colours are similar.
E.G on the left hand side of the screen in the cream section,
sometimes there is writing over the top of it, and it is hard to read.

Anyway, I like the site,

John

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Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2001 12:48:03 +0100
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>Great idea for a site.

>Only minus point is that occasionally (on my old 15" screen), sometimes =
>I can't read a certain word because the colours are similar.  E.G on the =
>left hand side of the screen in the cream section, sometimes there is =
>writing over the top of it, and it is hard to read. =20

>Anyway, I like the site,

>John

Yeah, I might change some of the colours of the site later on.
I'm trying to get more traffic to the site first :)

http://pub95.ezboard.com/braymondefeistsriftwars
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From: "Jason Mulligan" <sulimo@bigpond.net.au>
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On 7/09/2001 at 9:12 AM Richard Williamson wrote:

>Hiya,
>
>This is primary for Jason but I'm sure the rest of you
>lot are interested.

Thanks. Now I understand why Ray never used it in the novels. A calendar that 
different to the Gregorian calendar would be a real pain to use.

>I have a script running on my website that displays the
>current date and time in the Midkemian Calendar.  
>http://www.ferkel.co.uk/cgi/mxeddconv.cgi
>
>At the Royal Rillanon Observatory, The current date is 
>9 Kimia 4288, and the time is 04:10:05 

Speaking of observatories, another thing I've wondered about is the three 
moons. Do they have names? what effects would the three moons have on 
tides? for instance would that make high and low tides more frequent or just 
more severe?






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Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 09:56:02 +1000
From: "Jason Mulligan" <sulimo@bigpond.net.au>
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On 6/09/2001 at 7:04 PM Raymond Feist wrote:

>On Thursday, September 6, 2001, at 06:46 PM, Jason Mulligan wrote:
>
>> One other thing I've wondered about is languages. The variety of 
>> languages spoken within the borders
>> of the Kingdom in particular.
>>
>> For instance, in "The Black Tower" there is an NPC (a Vampire-Lesser 
>> Path Magician,
>> named Olman) who speaks Lower Delk among other languages (including 
>> Valheru). What
>> is Lower Delk?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>Actually, it's Lower Delkian, which is what they speak in Lower Delk.  
>Which is right below Upper Delk.
>
>Now, I haven't the damnest idea where Delk is, but it's somewhere down 
>in the bowels of Kesh.

Ahhh.

About the Kingdom tongue, is it the pure language of Rillanon? or is it the common 
tongue of the Kingdom which has picked up bits and pieces from everywhere (a bit like 
English has)? If Kingdom Tongue is the language of Rillanon, it would make sense that 
there would be two 'common' tongues. One for the east and one for the west (with the west 
being part of Kesh at one time).

Speaking of which, when Kesh colonised the Far Coast was it unpopulated by 
humans? or did say the Hadati spread that far west and the Keshites drove them out?



 



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Jason Mulligan wrote:
> 
> Speaking of which, when Kesh colonised the Far Coast was it unpopulated by
> humans? or did say the Hadati spread that far west and the Keshites drove them out?

Actually, that leads me to wonder as well: how is it that the smaller
island kingdoms of Roldem & Queg have held out against their much larger
neighbors, the Kingdom of the Isles & Kesh?

Also, what lies east of Roldem & the Kingdom? :)

Craig J. Ries



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>Jason Mulligan wrote:
>> 
>> Speaking of which, when Kesh colonised the Far Coast was it unpopulated by

>> humans? or did say the Hadati spread that far west and the Keshites drove them out?
>
>Actually, that leads me to wonder as well: how is it that the smaller
>island kingdoms of Roldem & Queg have held out against their much larger
>neighbors, the Kingdom of the Isles & Kesh?
>
>Also, what lies east of Roldem & the Kingdom? :)
>
>Craig J. Ries
>

From what I understand Queg has the largest navy on the Bitter Sea, which gives
it some advantage being an island nation.  It was once a part of Kesh, but I
can't quite recall how it became its own nation.  I think the answer is in Rise
of a Merchant Prince or one of the other Serpentwar novels.  Roldem I'm not
sure about, but I think it was always independent.  

As for what is east of the Kingdom, there are the Eastern Kingdoms east of Ran
& North-East of Roldem and across the sea you can eventually hit Novindus if
you go far enough.  Have a look at http://www.elvandar.com if you wan't more
detail.  Mr Askren's maps are excellent.

- MARK



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Mark Tonkin wrote:
>
> From what I understand Queg has the largest navy on the Bitter Sea, which gives
> it some advantage being an island nation.

Hmm, now, I know that at one time Britain commanded the greatest Navy on
the high seas, but Britain's neighbors were many, all competing for the
same resources.
This isn't the same with Queg, which only has two neighbors.

> As for what is east of the Kingdom, there are the Eastern Kingdoms east of Ran
> & North-East of Roldem and across the sea you can eventually hit Novindus if
> you go far enough.

Well, I'm reading Rise of the Merchant Prince now, but I'm having a
difficult time imagining how large a world Midkemia is in relation to
our own.
I know in RotMP they mention sailing around Kesh to approach Novindus
from the 
east/southeast, instead of from the northwest as was done in The King's
Buccanneer.
Another thing I thought odd was we have the Green & Blue Seas. Quite the
seas, aren't they? Was expecting to find named oceans sooner or later
once I started reading Magician :)

Nice maps, btw. Kudos to who created them.



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Date: Sun, 09 Sep 2001 22:57:37 -0700
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From: Max Haghighi <maxhag@pacbell.net>
Subject: RE: ebay - riftwar saga
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sun, 09 Sep 2001 22:57:37 -0700
From: Max Haghighi <maxhag@pacbell.net>
Subject: RE: ebay - riftwar saga
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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What is this Email?

MAx

-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of John
>Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2001 5:22 AM
>To: Dylan
>Subject: Re: ebay - riftwar saga
>
>
>In message <002401c13847$f5db2da0$6b1c893e@b7c1r7>, Dylan
><dylan@dylan32.fsnet.co.uk> writes
>>Hi,
>> 
>>You've just won:
>>Raymond E Feist - Riftwar Fantasy Paperbacks : £1.00
>> 
>>
>>UK postage is £2.00
>>International postage is $8.00
>> 
>>UK residents may pay via paypal (ID dylan@dylan32.fsnet.co.uk), or
>>send a cheque made payable to 'Dylan Thomas' with item and address
>>details to:
>> 
>>Dylan Thomas
>>33 Llewellyn street
>>Glynneath
>>West Glamorgan
>>South Wales
>>SA11 5AF
>>UK
>> 
>>International bidders can pay using paypal,
>>or we can discuss alternative payment methods.
>> 
>>Cheers,
>>Dylan
>Cheque will go out Monday
>
>best
>--
>John Bunting
>4, Springfield Road
>Sittingbourne
>Kent
>ME10 2NB
>England

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Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 08:42:20 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: The Calendar question
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At 09:20 AM 9/10/01 +1000, Jason Mulligan wrote:
>>At the Royal Rillanon Observatory, The current date is 
>>9 Kimia 4288, and the time is 04:10:05 
>
>Speaking of observatories, another thing I've wondered about is the three 
>moons. Do they have names? what effects would the three moons have on 
>tides? for instance would that make high and low tides more frequent or just 
>more severe?

Ray's answered this one before...it isn't frequently asked though
so not a FAQ...

They are 'the small moon', the 'middle-sized moon' and 'the big (or
large) moon'.  They don't have names.

My understanding of tidal forces comes from the inverse square
law, in that the force drops off quicker than the rate that you
move away from the mass.  Given that, I would assume that without
a general knowledge of their distances, you couldn't assume to
know which moon would play the most part in the tidal dance.
(ie, the 'little moon' may be as big as the 'big moon', just a lot
further away)

In short, insufficient information to make a comparison, create
a judgement or even formulate a hypothesis...

Kind of refreshing, actually, and makes the story telling easier.
If you need a high tide, write one in :->.

rip



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From: "Donal K. Fellows" <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: The Calendar question
Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 10:17:18 +0100
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"Jason Mulligan" <sulimo@bigpond.net.au>
> Speaking of observatories, another thing I've wondered about is the
> three moons. Do they have names? what effects would the three moons
> have on tides? for instance would that make high and low tides more
> frequent or just more severe?

Well, with four attractive bodies acting on Midemian seas (three moons
plus their sun) their tide tables will be a *lot* more complicated.
They will probably have a great many small tides when the moons and
sun are not particularly aligned, but when they do align the tides
will be vicious, and apparently this happens every year and is why
sailing the Straits of Darkness in winter is so hazardous.

Idle thought/question: I wonder how big the moons are; are they as big
as our moon (either individually or aggregated[*]) and how big do they
appear to be in the sky?

Donal.
[* This is one of the major factors in how big the tides will get,
   BTW, together with the apparent size of the moons.  If the moons
   are heavier than our moon in aggregate and are comparatively close
   to the Midkemian surface, then the tidal ranges could be several
   times those on Earth, which would have a massive effect on the
   straits with those funnel-shaped coasts leading up to them from
   both sides... ]
-- 
Donal K. Fellows, Department of Computer Science, University of Manchester, UK.
(work) fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk     Tel: +44-161-275-6137  (preferred email addr.)
(home) donal@ugglan.demon.co.uk  Tel: +44-1274-401017   Mobile: +44-7957-298955
http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~fellowsd/  (Don't quote my .sig; I've seen it before!)



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On Sat, 8 Sep 2001 02:31:46   
 Darren McClung wrote:
>Well, we've discussed this a little before, and I just happened to see it
>today.  In Kansas City we had a fairly severe thunderstorm this evening.  A
>friend and I were driving around admiring the frequenty lightning.  Then,
>all of the sudden, the sky lit up in a bright traffic-signal-green flash,
>not once, but TWICE.  It was amazing.  Does anyone know if this the same
>phenomenon that Ray has talked about before, or is this something different
>entirely? >
>

What Ray was talking about is not related to lightning. When the sun
set over the ocean, if the conditions are right, you may see a green
flash just bfore the sun disapear.

PJ


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Subject: RE: Roleplaying in Midkemia questions
Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 13:49:48 +0100
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From: "Michael Gibson" <gibbyfish@yahoo.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
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> Jason Mulligan wrote:
> >
> > Speaking of which, when Kesh colonised the Far Coast was it unpopulated by
> > humans? or did say the Hadati spread that far west and the Keshites
> drove them out?
>
> Actually, that leads me to wonder as well: how is it that the smaller
> island kingdoms of Roldem & Queg have held out against their much larger
> neighbors, the Kingdom of the Isles & Kesh?

I think it's a case of if either the Kingdom or Kesh tries anything, it would
leave the aggressor vulnerable in another area, so there'd be little or no net
gain.  And I don't think there's enough trust for them "to do a Poland", in the
way Germany and the USSR did.

Mike,
Gibfish of the West.
                                          Check out my forums at:
"To question is often intelligent.        http://www.tonrae.co.uk/forums/
To trust rightly is to be inspired."


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From: "Alvaro Santos" <weretraira@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: The Kingdom of Crydee
Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 10:58:41 -0300
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From: "Alvaro Santos" <weretraira@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: The Kingdom of Crydee
Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 10:58:41 -0300
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Ray, how much time did take to write Magician?

Beers,
Alvaro

"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away".
Philip K. Dick



>From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
>Subject: Re: The Kingdom of Crydee
>Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2001 12:13:00 -0700
>
>
>On Friday, September 7, 2001, at 11:21 AM, Michael Gibson wrote:
>
>>Hi Ray
>>
>>If you'd based Magician et al in the kingdom of Crydee, would it (or
>>later
>>books) have been very different?  Or was it so early on in the writing
>>process
>>when Steve suggested you use Midkemia, that you didn't have much worked
>>out?
>
>Actually, it was early on I suggested I use Midkemia as I found world
>building for the game and the book at the same time tedious.  Anyway,
>the story would have been very much what you read in King's Buccaneer,
>with Arutha doing Nicholasbut with obvious differences in the
>relationship because of rank/station/personality.   Pug would have
>fallen in love with Carline during the rescue, etc.
>>
>>Also, had you planned to write from an early age, or did you just take
>>advantage
>>of the free time you suddenly had on your hands?
>>
>
>I never planned on being a writer until I started writing.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
>stupidity.


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp



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From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: The Kingdom of Crydee
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On Monday, September 10, 2001, at 06:58 AM, Alvaro Santos wrote:

> Ray, how much time did take to write Magician?

About fourteen months spread out over a two year period.  Lots of false 
starts on that one.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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From: "donald.c" <donald.c@ntlworld.com>
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Subject: Re: The Kingdom of Crydee
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From: "donald.c" <donald.c@ntlworld.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: The Kingdom of Crydee
Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 17:03:03 +0100
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Well may I say that I for one am glad you "stuck at
it".
Re-reading it for the umpteenth time :) what can I say,
I was always a sucker for a "Ripping Yarn".
Thank you Ray for giving me my favourite book of all
time.

                           Don.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Raymond Feist" <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Monday, September 10, 2001 3:23 PM
Subject: Re: The Kingdom of Crydee


>
> On Monday, September 10, 2001, at 06:58 AM, Alvaro Santos wrote:
>
> > Ray, how much time did take to write Magician?
>
> About fourteen months spread out over a two year period.  Lots of false
> starts on that one.
>
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
>
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
> stupidity.
>



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  Age, Australia)
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From: Victoria E Quinton <mermaid@alphalink.com.au>
Subject: 2nd hand booksellers' views on internet book sales( Melbourne
  Age, Australia)
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http://www.theage.com.au/entertainment/2001/09/11/FFXK5LO5FRC.html



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Subject: Re: 2nd hand booksellers' views on internet book sales
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From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: 2nd hand booksellers' views on internet book sales
Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 20:03:36 -0500
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That's interesting.  I remember similar complaints from one of the
local used stores where I lived for a while.  thanks for passing it
on.

-James

----- Original Message -----
From: "Victoria E Quinton" <mermaid@alphalink.com.au>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Monday, September 10, 2001 7:29 PM
Subject: 2nd hand booksellers' views on internet book sales(
Melbourne Age, Australia)


> http://www.theage.com.au/entertainment/2001/09/11/FFXK5LO5FRC.html
>



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  Melbourne Age, Australia)
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From: "Jason Mulligan" <sulimo@bigpond.net.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: 2nd hand booksellers' views on internet book sales(
  Melbourne Age, Australia)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On 11/09/2001 at 10:29 AM Victoria E Quinton wrote:

>http://www.theage.com.au/entertainment/2001/09/11/FFXK5LO5FRC.html

I must say I agree to a degree. I remember being able to get lots of books reasonably 
from local 2nd hand book stores. With the popularity of the net (places like ebay), people 
just arent taking them to their local bookstores instead auctioning them off on ebay. Thus, the 
amount of 2nd hand stuff I buy now has gone down considerably. Of course the crash of the 
Australia peso hasnt helped either.



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From: "Michael Gibson" <gibfish@gibbyco.freeserve.co.uk>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: OT: Terrorist Activities
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 15:50:56 +0100
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*** EOOH ***
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: "Michael Gibson" <gibfish@gibbyco.freeserve.co.uk>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: OT: Terrorist Activities
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 15:50:56 +0100
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

To anyone affected by the recent strikes at Washington/World Trade Centre, I'm
sure I speak for all on the list in saying that our thoughts are with you, at
this terrible time of cowardly devastation.  We are tragically reminded of how
vulnerable we are all to fanatics, and of how we must ceaselessly oppose them.

Mike,
Gibfish of the West.
                                          Check out my forums at:
"To question is often intelligent.        http://www.tonrae.co.uk/forums/
To trust rightly is to be inspired."



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References: <NGELLDNAEMBGGGHFAJPBGECJCIAA.gibfish@gibbyco.freeserve.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Terrorist Activities
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Barker" <heechee@softhome.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Terrorist Activities
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 01:15:01 +1000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


----- Original Message -----
From: Michael Gibson <gibfish@gibbyco.freeserve.co.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2001 12:50 AM
Subject: OT: Terrorist Activities


> To anyone affected by the recent strikes at Washington/World Trade Centre, I'm
> sure I speak for all on the list in saying that our thoughts are with you, at
> this terrible time of cowardly devastation.  We are tragically reminded of how
> vulnerable we are all to fanatics, and of how we must ceaselessly oppose them.
>

Agreed. This may sound maudlin or melodramatic, but as someone still
recovering from the painful lost of one dead friend, I can only imagine the
pain and grief of so many in America.

I'd like to wish my deepest sympathy and condolences to any who may have
lost loved ones in this crisis, and to any members of the list (indeed, any
human being) who may have been injured as a result of this attack. If any of
our list members have, may God forbid, been killed, I can only hope that
their souls will rest in peace.

Solemnly,
James



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 <200109111513.LAA20397@router2.mail.cornell.edu>
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 08:16:42 -0700
X-PH: V4.1@cornell.edu (Cornell Modified) 
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Alan Kellogg <mythusmage@cts.com>
Subject: Re: Terrorist Activities
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 08:16:42 -0700
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Alan Kellogg <mythusmage@cts.com>
Subject: Re: Terrorist Activities
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

>----- Original Message -----
>From: Michael Gibson <gibfish@gibbyco.freeserve.co.uk>
>To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
>Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2001 12:50 AM
>Subject: OT: Terrorist Activities
>
>
>>  To anyone affected by the recent strikes at Washington/World Trade Centre,
>I'm
>>  sure I speak for all on the list in saying that our thoughts are with you,
>at
>>  this terrible time of cowardly devastation.  We are tragically reminded of
>how
>>  vulnerable we are all to fanatics, and of how we must ceaselessly oppose
>them.
>>
>
>Agreed. This may sound maudlin or melodramatic, but as someone still
>recovering from the painful lost of one dead friend, I can only imagine the
>pain and grief of so many in America.
>
>I'd like to wish my deepest sympathy and condolences to any who may have
>lost loved ones in this crisis, and to any members of the list (indeed, any
>human being) who may have been injured as a result of this attack. If any of
>our list members have, may God forbid, been killed, I can only hope that
>their souls will rest in peace.
>
>Solemnly,
>James

We've all lost somebody today.

Alan
-- 
_______

Mythusmage.com, <http://www.mythusmage.com> at its new location!

mailto:mythusmage@mythusmage.com

ICQ: 103299329



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References: <NGELLDNAEMBGGGHFAJPBGECJCIAA.gibfish@gibbyco.freeserve.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Terrorist Activities
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Magnus Arvidsson" <magnus.arvidsson75@telia.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Terrorist Activities
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 17:39:24 +0200
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

My deepest sympathies to the USA. I was sitting in my apartment
in Sweden minding my own business when I happened to catch a glimpse
from a news program on TV. I must say I am shocked, scared, shaky. I dare
not think of the
ramifications, what this might bring.

Magnus

> To anyone affected by the recent strikes at Washington/World Trade Centre, I'm
> sure I speak for all on the list in saying that our thoughts are with you, at
> this terrible time of cowardly devastation.  We are tragically reminded of how
> vulnerable we are all to fanatics, and of how we must ceaselessly oppose them.
>
> Mike,
> Gibfish of the West.
>                                           Check out my forums at:
> "To question is often intelligent.        http://www.tonrae.co.uk/forums/
> To trust rightly is to be inspired."
>



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Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 16:47:16 +0100
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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Andrea J Chee <andrea@bloodaxe.com>
Subject: Re: Terrorist Activities
References: <NGELLDNAEMBGGGHFAJPBGECJCIAA.gibfish@gibbyco.freeserve.co.uk>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 16:47:16 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Andrea J Chee <andrea@bloodaxe.com>
Subject: Re: Terrorist Activities
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

In article <200109111513.LAA20397@router2.mail.cornell.edu>, James
Barker <heechee@softhome.net> writes
>
>Agreed. This may sound maudlin or melodramatic, but as someone still
>recovering from the painful lost of one dead friend, I can only imagine the
>pain and grief of so many in America.

Looks like a Hollywood Blockbuster. I keep waiting for the President
(played by Harrison Ford) to save the day. We're all in shock on this
side of the pond.

Lots of people in the US can't get TV news because their transmitters
were on the World Trade Centre. I'm already sending out news updates by
email newsletter to a number of people there, so if anyone else needs
them, feel free to drop me an email.

- ANDREA

-- 
  Get PAID for the emails you already send and receive! 
http://www.mailround.com/  Referrer: andrea@bloodaxe.com
^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^
                  ANDROMEDA - Internet Goddess
<andrea@bloodaxe.com>                    http://www.bloodaxe.com/
Bloodaxe's History Links:   http://www.geocities.com/Athens/5055/
The Loony Bin Archive:               http://loonies.net800.co.uk/



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References: <NGELLDNAEMBGGGHFAJPBGECJCIAA.gibfish@gibbyco.freeserve.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Terrorist Activities
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Ragnar E. Sørensen" <ragnares@online.no>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Terrorist Activities
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 19:15:27 +0200
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Gibson" <gibfish@gibbyco.freeserve.co.uk>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 4:50 PM
Subject: OT: Terrorist Activities


> To anyone affected by the recent strikes at Washington/World Trade Centre, I'm
> sure I speak for all on the list in saying that our thoughts are with you, at
> this terrible time of cowardly devastation.  We are tragically reminded of how
> vulnerable we are all to fanatics, and of how we must ceaselessly oppose them.
>
> Mike,
> Gibfish of the West.
>                                           Check out my forums at:
> "To question is often intelligent.        http://www.tonrae.co.uk/forums/
> To trust rightly is to be inspired."
>
>


I can only say I am shocked, its unbelievable and horrible.
My thoughts are indeed with you, seeing the images over and over again
on the news it still doesn't register, its like the Tom Clancy novel
Executive Orders or
a movie, but this isn't fiction this is real and yet its so unrealistic to
see it happen. I am speechless
at this horrible act and I can only hope the monsters that are responsible
will be brought to justice.
My condolences to those whom have lost someone, I have many friends near
these places and will
be trying to get hold of them in the next hours.

With the most sincere respect and sympathy,
Ragnar Ekelund Sørensen



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Subject: Re: Terrorist Activities
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 14:42:20 -0500
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Terrorist Activities
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 14:42:20 -0500
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

    I can only say that this affects us deeply and many of us are
still counting loved ones even as far south as Alabama, and beyond.
I assure you that all of us who have been in some way affected by
this tragedy are grateful for prayers at this time.  My prayers as
well go to all those who need them most.

-James
(counting his blessings that his uncle decided not to go into work
today)

----- Original Message -----
From: "Magnus Arvidsson" <magnus.arvidsson75@telia.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 10:39 AM
Subject: Re: Terrorist Activities


> My deepest sympathies to the USA. I was sitting in my apartment
> in Sweden minding my own business when I happened to catch a glimpse
> from a news program on TV. I must say I am shocked, scared, shaky. I dare
> not think of the
> ramifications, what this might bring.
>
> Magnus
>
> > To anyone affected by the recent strikes at Washington/World Trade Centre,
> I'm
> > sure I speak for all on the list in saying that our thoughts are with you,
> at
> > this terrible time of cowardly devastation.  We are tragically reminded of
> how
> > vulnerable we are all to fanatics, and of how we must ceaselessly oppose
> them.
> >
> > Mike,
> > Gibfish of the West.
> >                                           Check out my forums at:
> > "To question is often intelligent. http://www.tonrae.co.uk/forums/
> > To trust rightly is to be inspired."
> >
>



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Subject: Re: Terrorist Activities
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*** EOOH ***
From: Valheru89@aol.com
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 16:03:44 EDT
Subject: Re: Terrorist Activities
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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I have to admit i am very scared I was in school and we had to watch it and 
my dad is a figherfighter there so i am very scared somthing might have 
happened to him but i doubt it.but i must say you never know now a days

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*** EOOH ***
From: RBlackley@aol.com
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 16:25:09 EDT
Subject: Re: Terrorist Activities
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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i spent the day in school watching reports on the internet my parents were 
not hurt but some people weren't that lucky

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Subject: OT World Trade Centre
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 22:31:15 +0200
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*** EOOH ***
From: Torstein Litlabø <litlaboe@online.no>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: OT World Trade Centre
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 22:31:15 +0200
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I would like to give my condolences to evry american on this list, and to the american people in general.

The terrorist acts against USA today is very hard to accept as reality. Lets hope the people responsible
for this horrible act is found, and brought to justice.

My thoughts are with you!

Torstein Litlaboe



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From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
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Subject: RE: Terrorist Activities
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 04:32:36 +0800
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*** EOOH ***
From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Terrorist Activities
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 04:32:36 +0800
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I'm about as far away from all this as possible in Perth, Australia but
I was shocked when I heard. For the last 7 or so hours since it happened
nothing else has been on the TV over here, most are rebroadcasting CNN
to keep us up to date. To watch the footage of the second plane hurtle
into the tower and explode into the huge fireball truly looks like a
hollywood stunt, something akin to Bruce Willis and the Nakatomi
building. And then, to watch both towers collapse in on themselves
Lethal Weapon style.....It's the sort of thing great action films are
made of, but in real life it is the stuff of great tragedy.

My heart goes out to all those people who knew or had relatives on the
flights or in the WTC or the Pentagon. I can only imagine what this is
like for the residents of the US as your country has been thrown into
chaos with all the major government and monetary institutions being
closed and evacuated. One can only hope there will be some silver lining
on this the very darkest of storm clouds, although with a death toll
possibly in the tens of thousands it seems unlikely.

This agression will not stand, and I wish the authorities the best of
luck in finding the perpetrators.

CW

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu 
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of James Young
> Sent: Wednesday, 12 September 2001 3:42 AM
> To: FEISTFANS-L
> Subject: Re: Terrorist Activities
> 
> 
>     I can only say that this affects us deeply and many of us are
> still counting loved ones even as far south as Alabama, and beyond.
> I assure you that all of us who have been in some way affected by
> this tragedy are grateful for prayers at this time.  My prayers as
> well go to all those who need them most.
> 
> -James
> (counting his blessings that his uncle decided not to go into work
> today)
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Magnus Arvidsson" <magnus.arvidsson75@telia.com>
> To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 10:39 AM
> Subject: Re: Terrorist Activities
> 
> 
> > My deepest sympathies to the USA. I was sitting in my apartment
> > in Sweden minding my own business when I happened to catch a
> glimpse
> > from a news program on TV. I must say I am shocked, scared, shaky.
> I dare
> > not think of the
> > ramifications, what this might bring.
> >
> > Magnus
> >
> > > To anyone affected by the recent strikes at Washington/World
> Trade Centre,
> > I'm
> > > sure I speak for all on the list in saying that our thoughts are
> with you,
> > at
> > > this terrible time of cowardly devastation.  We are tragically
> reminded of
> > how
> > > vulnerable we are all to fanatics, and of how we must
> ceaselessly oppose
> > them.
> > >
> > > Mike,
> > > Gibfish of the West.
> > >                                           Check out my forums
> at:
> > > "To question is often intelligent.
> http://www.tonrae.co.uk/forums/
> > > To trust rightly is to be inspired."
> > >
> >
> 



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Subject: Re: Terrorist Activities
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*** EOOH ***
From: Adam012882@cs.com
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 17:26:16 EDT
Subject: Re: Terrorist Activities
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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       I live in Brooklyn, New york its like a half hour subway train ride to 
the world trade center. I was on my way to college this morning with a few 
friends at 9:15 this morning, we were on the the train and all was silent, 
its not untill after i got off the train that i saw smoke infesting the air. 
it wasn't strong, but it was noticable. i asked a few kids what was going on. 
, they told me about about the plane crash, then, right after that we heard a 
loud boom. and people screaming....it was coming from our SUBO ( Its the 
student union building)  their was about thirty people gatherd around a big 
screen tv crying, i asked what was going on, they said another plane crashed 
in the second building.  We were devistated, a lot of the students there had 
relatives that worked over at the WTC. I can still see the smoke if i stand 
on the roof of my house. Its not a pretty site...

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Subject: Terrorist Activities....Nostradamus 
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From: Adam012882@cs.com
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 17:29:47 EDT
Subject: Terrorist Activities....Nostradamus 
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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In the City of God there will be a great thunder, Two brothers torn apart by 
Chaos, while the fortress endures, the great leader will succumb" , "The 
third big war will begin when the big city is burning"
 - Nostradamus 1654 

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Subject: Re: Terrorist Activities....Nostradamus
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 17:05:35 -0500
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From: "Jeffrey Flower" <chronos@teamut.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Terrorist Activities....Nostradamus
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 17:05:35 -0500
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I feel a need to reply to this so called prophecy by Nostradamus.  

I am a Aviation Technian in the United States Navy, and the last thing
we need is people waving WORLD WAR III signs around.  Perception is a
personal thing and any prophecy throughout the times can be twisted
enough to mean what we want to see in it.  As an Armed Force, we are
on a state of readiness like never before.  Nothing like this has
happened on American soil since Pearl Harbor.  At that time President
Truman had to make the hardest choice of his life.  And while the
Bombs at both Hiroshima and Nagasaki were devestating beyond belief,
they were by far the smartest choice that he could make.  He choose to
take the path that would in all actuality save the most Americans.

I hope and I pray that it does not come to that again, but we as
Americans cannot allow something like this to pass lightly.  We
already have two full carrier groups and all the east coast cruisers
on our way over to be ready to give them the appropriate repsonse.  I
pray only that God will save the innocent people that will be brought
into this conflict by the choices of a select evil few.

I have no animosity towards you in any way, but I would only ask that
anyone who reads this email would realize that this is a time for
America to band together and mourn its loss and put herself back
together so that when the appropriate time comes that we can deliver
justice to those that brought this upon the country I am sworn to
defend.

If too many people hold up WORLD WAR III signs and fear the worst, the
chaos that will ensue, will justify the efforts of the cowards that
did this to us.  Let us instead band together and realize that we are
the United States of America.  We do not back down!  We do not
tolerate terrorist activity, especially on our soil!  And we will not
be beaten.  If they who did this feel that they can beat us, then let
them step up to the plate and try.

Jeffrey Flower.
AT - US NAVY
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: Adam012882@cs.com 
>To: FEISTFANS-L 
>Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 4:29 PM
>Subject: Terrorist Activities....Nostradamus
>
>
>In the City of God there will be a great thunder, Two brothers torn apart by 
>Chaos, while the fortress endures, the great leader will succumb" , "The 
>third big war will begin when the big city is burning" 
>- Nostradamus 1654 

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From: RBlackley@aol.com
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 19:12:28 EDT
Subject: Re: Terrorist Activities....Nostradamus
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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ro risk sounding cliched

Hell yeah!

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From: "Michael Renn" <troubador7@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re: Terrorist Activities....Nostradamus
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Yep, I think you hit the nail on the head there.

                           Michael


>From: RBlackley@aol.com
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
>Subject: Re: Terrorist Activities....Nostradamus
>Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 19:12:28 EDT
>
>ro risk sounding cliched
>
>Hell yeah!


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp



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From: "Caleb Fox" <mikefasssy@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT World Trade Centre
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 17:27:21 -0700
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From: "Caleb Fox" <mikefasssy@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT World Trade Centre
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 17:27:21 -0700
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Hi. I am also deeply sorry for those americans invovled in the bombing
of WTO buildings and other associated activities. For those of you
that had a family member or friend hurt or killed in the incident,
maybe this isn't for you.





What I am trying to say, is that this tradegy was long overdue. Yes
many lives were lost, yes it was a cowardly act, but think of what the
US has done to the people that caused the terror. According to
statistics USA, over 1.3 million people have been killed in American
peace keeping operations in the past couple years. How do you think
those people feel? How many of them had brothers killed in crossfire,
or by the famous 'bombs over baghdad'? America hasn't fought a single
war on its on soil since roughly the 1880's. I am probably just a
cynical old bastard, but maybe this a hint to mind their own business?
Maybe other countries could solve their own problems. I still
sympathize with those involved, but I also feel like it was
unevitable.

Thankyou if you did read this whole msg, and please don't flame me or
worse, these are just my thoughts.

Caleb

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Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 17:56:39 -0700
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 17:56:39 -0700
From: Carl Dershem <dershem@home.com>
Organization: Project Selene
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT World Trade Centre
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Caleb Fox wrote:
> 
> Hi. I am also deeply sorry for those americans invovled in the bombing
> of WTO buildings and other associated activities. For those of you
> that had a family member or friend hurt or killed in the incident,
> maybe this isn't for you.
> 
> What I am trying to say, is that this tradegy was long overdue. Yes
> many lives were lost, yes it was a cowardly act, but think of what the
> US has done to the people that caused the terror. According to
> statistics USA, over 1.3 million people have been killed in American
> peace keeping operations in the past couple years. How do you think
> those people feel? How many of them had brothers killed in crossfire,
> or by the famous 'bombs over baghdad'? America hasn't fought a single
> war on its on soil since roughly the 1880's. I am probably just a
> cynical old bastard, but maybe this a hint to mind their own business?
> Maybe other countries could solve their own problems. I still
> sympathize with those involved, but I also feel like it was
> unevitable.
> 
> Thankyou if you did read this whole msg, and please don't flame me or
> worse, these are just my thoughts.
> 
> Caleb

This kind of bullshit does not deserve to be considered "thought". 
You're not cynical - you're just incredibly stupid.

Flame?  Not even a hint of flame.  The US has done *nothing* to call in
this kind of cowardly, heartless, mindless atrocity.  No one has.  Those
who, even covertly, consider mass murder justificable (and especially
those that link it to peacekeeping missions - who have obviously never
considered the word, much less the missions it describes) will be
considered as less than human by me.

Fortunately, Mr. Fox has gone into my permanent killfile.  If a
terrorist drops a building on him, he'll get no sympathy from me.

cd



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Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 18:55:51 -0600
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Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 18:55:51 -0600
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
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Caleb Fox wrote:
> 
> Maybe other countries could solve their own problems. I still
> sympathize with those involved, but I also feel like it was
> unevitable.

We are the ones that put Israel together and have helped it stand over
the last 50 years. We are the ones that put our hand in places like
Afghanistan, in Iraq, and Iran. Now we have these countries lashing back
at us, yet we are expected to sit back and let our buildings blown up?
let our people be killed?

I'll not sit back and say we've had clean hands the last 50 years, but
nor will I sit back and accept this tragedy. There are other ways to
deal with things than violence, but anything less than striking back is
unacceptable.

I have a good feeling that this is the last we're going to see of
terrorist acts on American soil.

Oh, and to continue, we're not the ones forcing the Israelies and the
Palestenians to kill each other, we don't have soldiers killing off one
side or the other.
If you get shot at, you're going to shoot back. Plain and simple.

Craig J. Ries



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To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
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Subject: Re: Terrorist Activities....Nostradamus 
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 13:11:45 +1200
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Julie Wootten" <wootten@xtra.co.nz>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Terrorist Activities....Nostradamus 
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 13:11:45 +1200
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I sent the prophecy to a friend I was chatting with... her response 
reprinted here:

 "Oh, and Nostradamus is brilliant. If there's going to be a WW3, 
you reckon it'll happen WITHOUT a big city burning? You can pick 
and choose after the fact, whichever city he might have meant."
"I mean, maybe there'll be a world war where they only ever target 
cow paddocks."
"That would rule."

Time to keep perspective, eh?

When I saw it on TV this morning, I felt horror and outrage, and I
do still wonder if it is the beginning of something really big and nasty.
I feel very grateful to live in a country that's rarely seen as a target
(except by the French - the government behind the single terrorist
attack in NZ history).

My heart and good wishes go out to all affected by this tragedy - not
only the americans, but all the nationalities that had people in such
an international location, and on the passenger planes.

Julie.

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Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 18:33:41 -0700
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 18:33:41 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT World Trade Centre
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Caleb,

You can't make statements that inflame and tell people not to flame you.

Simply put, no one "deserves" to die because of US Policy in the Middle 
East.  It's not "payback."  People didn't die in Bagdad because the US 
hit military targets, they died because their nation is ruled by a 
murdering madman who invaded a neighboring country.

If you want to understand the roots of this conflict, I can not more 
strongly urge you to get a copy of The Peace to End All Peace: The Fall 
of the Ottoman Empire and the Creation of the Modern Middle East. by 
David Fromkin.

You'll understand so very much more about the absolute arbitrary and 
nearly capricious fashion in which "nations" were created out of 
districts of the Ottoman Empire by bureaucrats in White Hall and Paris.

Arab terrorist hate the US for one reason only: without the US, Israel 
would not exist today.  The arabs don't hate Israel because it's Jewish, 
they hate it because it's a democracy.  They don't want their own 
oppressed people looking across borders and seeing a successful nation 
who elect their own leaders.  These are nations of tribal people three 
generations removed from being nomadic goat herders and who are only 
significant to global politics because their nations sit on a vast 
reserve of oil.  This is the reason we didn't go into Bagdad and remove 
Sadam, and put an opposition government in place, so that two years 
later there could be free elections.  Because the very people we were 
"protecting" urged us not to do so.   The ruling families of the area 
didn't want a democracy in Bagdad.

And the people who killed tens of thousands today didn't do it to make 
those innocents killed by bombing Bagdad "feel better," they did it 
because terrorism is the tool of those who wish to destabilize, inflict 
terror, and distract.

Big mistake.

Jerry Pournelle told some of us today he thinks today will mark the end 
of the American Republic.  He says we may now be seeing the dawn of the 
American Empire.  He's of the opinion we will now start overthrowing 
some of these governments, starting with Afghanistan and put the rebels 
there into power and just tell the Russians and Chinese to back off.

September 11, 2001 may be the day we look back upon and say was the day 
we realized we could no longer pretend we didn't live in a global 
community where we are all, ultimately, responsible for one another.    
"New World Order," was the term Bush (Sr.) used when the Berlin Wall 
fell and when the Soviet Union dissolved.  I guess it's time to decide 
what that order will be.

Best, R.E.F.

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From: "Maria Parsonage" <mpday@strayduck.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
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Subject: Re: OT World Trade Centre
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Maria Parsonage" <mpday@strayduck.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT World Trade Centre
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 03:02:56 +0100
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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This is not intended as a "flame" but as you have felt you needed your
opinion to be heard, I would like to make some remarks of my own, and if
I seem a little opinionated I apologise but I am a little upset.

I am not an American. I am a British travel agent who has spent today at
work dealing with people on the phone for 8 hours desperately trying to
get information on missing friends and family members. If you had spent
the day as I had done, trying not to cry when the person on the other
end of the phone couldn't get the words out because they were
distraught, you would not make such haste to bandy around your callous
remarks.

This tragedy may have been aimed at US targets but people from around
the world have been greatly affected one way or another. Innocent
people, including children may well be among the casualties. The worst
thing I saw today was reports of a special shelter being set up for
children in New York whose parents did not arrive to collect them from
school. Can you even imagine being in that position?

The US and also the UN undertake these peacekeeping and preventative
measures around the world in protection of the innocents who live in it.

I lost my grandfather last week, and I thought nothing could make me
feel worse, but watching what has happened has been devastating, and
actually dealing with families directly affected has been terrible. My
heart goes out to everyone who is directly or indirectly affected by
today's events.

Respectfully

Maria Parsonage

----- Original Message -----
>From: Caleb Fox
>To: FEISTFANS-L
>Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2001 1:27 AM
>Subject: Re: OT World Trade Centre
>
>
>Hi. I am also deeply sorry for those americans invovled in the bombing
>of WTO buildings and other associated activities. For those of you that
>had a family member or friend hurt or killed in the incident, maybe this
>isn't for you.
>
>
>
>
>
>What I am trying to say, is that this tradegy was long overdue. Yes many
>lives were lost, yes it was a cowardly act, but think of what the US has
>done to the people that caused the terror. According to statistics USA,
>over 1.3 million people have been killed in American peace keeping
>operations in the past couple years. How do you think those people feel?
>How many of them had brothers killed in crossfire, or by the famous
>'bombs over baghdad'? America hasn't fought a single war on its on soil
>since roughly the 1880's. I am probably just a cynical old bastard, but
>maybe this a hint to mind their own business? Maybe other countries
>could solve their own problems. I still sympathize with those involved,
>but I also feel like it was unevitable.
>
>Thankyou if you did read this whole msg, and please don't flame me or
>worse, these are just my thoughts.
>
>Caleb
>
>
>
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
>
>

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From: KARL SIMONIAN <karlsimonian@yahoo.com>
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From: KARL SIMONIAN <karlsimonian@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: OT World Trade Centre
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--- Caleb Fox <mikefasssy@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
><DIV>What I am trying to say, is that this tradegy was
>long overdue. Yes many lives were lost, yes it was a
>cowardly act, but think of what the US has done to the
>people that caused the terror. According to statistics
>USA, over 1.3 million people have been killed in
>American peace keeping operations in the past couple
>years. How do you think those people feel? How many of
>them had brothers killed in crossfire, or by the
>famous 'bombs over baghdad'? America hasn't fought a
>single war on its on soil since roughly the 1880's. I
>am probably just a cynical old bastard, but maybe this
>a hint to mind their own business? Maybe other
>countries could solve their own problems. I still
>sympathize with those involved, but I also feel like
>it was unevitable. Thankyou if you did read this whole
>msg, and please don't flame me or worse, these are
>just my thoughts
>

"Please don't flame me" ?!?
What kind of an ass are you?

Do you often find yourself making such inappropriate
comments at worst possible times?

Dude, just because you have an open mike, doesn't mean
you should say anything.  I'm baffled at what kind of
person you must be, or at what age you lost any sense
of social grace.

I will tell you this, at this very moment, I would
like nothing better than to meet you face to face, and
I'm not talking about buying you lunch.

Assume the worst.

Karl





__________________________________________________
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Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 10:06:42 +0800
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From: Shawn Chung <shawnc@cyberway.com.sg>
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Dear All,

I'd like to express my condolences to all Americans on this black 
day.  I watched CNN in horror as the twin towers imploded, and share 
with you the absolute horror and anger that all Americans must feel 
at this time.

Terrorism can never be justified, for it is a cancer that has to be 
eradicated.  I don't care how noble the motives, or justifiable the 
cause, whether its the Provisional IRA, the Abu Sayaff, Hamas, ETA or 
the Tamil Tigers.  Those who seek to use the weapons of terror 
against innocents as a tool of political manipulation must always be 
opposed.

What happened in New York on the 11th of September, 2001 will be 
recorded in world history as the most heinous, murderous single act 
of terrorism ever.  It must not go unpunished.

Sincerely,
-- 


Shawn Chung

Editor (Singapore)
whatsonwhen limited


MP: +65 96180809
Fx : +65 287 1215
E   :  shawnc@starhub.net.sg
U   :  http://www.whatsonwhen.com



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From: James_Turnbull@kaz.com.au
Subject: Re: OT World Trade Centre
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Rayond Feist wrote:

>Arab terrorist hate the US for one reason only: without the US, Israel
>would not exist today.  The arabs don't hate Israel because it's Jewish,
>they hate it because it's a democracy.  They don't want their own
>oppressed people looking across borders and seeing a successful nation who
>elect their own leaders.  These are nations of tribal people three
>generations removed from being nomadic goat herders and who are only
>significant to global politics because their nations sit on a vast reserve
>of oil.  This is the reason we didn't go into Bagdad and remove Sadam, and
>put an opposition government in place, so that two years later there could
>be free elections.  Because the very people we were "protecting" urged us
>not to do so.   The ruling families of the area didn't want a democracy in
>Bagdad.

I don't believe you'll find that Arabs hate Israel for it's democratic
practices alone.  The people of the former state of Palestine have a
legitimate gripe with the fact that they had their homes arbitarily taken
from them by Western governments post-WW2 by the formation of the state of
Israel.  Whilst I agree many Arab nations - particularly those with
dictatorial governments of one form or another - find the threat to their
power by the formation of democratic governments quite considerable I do
not believe it is that alone that motivates their hatred of Israel.

>And the people who killed tens of thousands today didn't do it to make
>those innocents killed by bombing Bagdad "feel better," they did it because
>terrorism is the tool of those who wish to destabilize, inflict terror,
>and distract.

Again I agree.  Terrorism has always been the last resort of cowards.
Terrorism against civilian targets is an act designed to assault the
stability of a society.  It is intended to provoke the reduction of
freedoms and liberty through fear and hatred.  It is an attempt by the
terrorists to bring the people who they attack down to their level.  The
ultimate tragedy of terrorist acts is that they forever change the
character of a people and a nation often to the detriment of the freedoms
and values of that people and nation.

>Jerry Pournelle told some of us today he thinks today will mark the end of
>the American Republic.  He says we may now be seeing the dawn of the
>American Empire.  He's of the opinion we will now start overthrowing some
>of these governments, starting with Afghanistan and put the rebels there
>into power and just tell the Russians and Chinese to back off.

Perhaps also the thing to observe will be whether this will also mean the
beginning of the end of the freedoms of the American Republic.

Regards

James Turnbull
Sydney, Australia



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Subject: Re: OT World Trade Centre
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT World Trade Centre
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 21:15:56 -0500
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HOW DARE YOU?!  YOU SAY YOU ARE SORRY YET ATTACK US ON THIS?  YOU
HAVE NO CLUE WHAT IN INVOLVED HERE IF THIS IS WHAT YOU THINK IS
GOING ON!  I AM SPARED THE LOSS OF LOVED ONES BY LUCK ONLY WITH SOME
OF MY FRIENDS ALREADY GRIEVING FOR THEIRS!  I ALMOST WISH THERE WAS
MORE I COULD DO THAN "KILLFILE" YOU!  YOU NEED SOMEONE TO SLAP SOME
DECENCY AND COMMON SENSE INTO YOU HEAD.

-James


> Hi. I am also deeply sorry for those americans invovled in the
>bombing of WTO buildings and other associated activities. For those
>of you that had a family member or friend hurt or killed in the
>incident, maybe this isn't for you.
>
>
>
>
>
> What I am trying to say, is that this tradegy was long overdue.
>Yes many lives were lost, yes it was a cowardly act, but think of
>what the US has done to the people that caused the terror. According
>to statistics USA, over 1.3 million people have been killed in
>American peace keeping operations in the past couple years. How do
>you think those people feel? How many of them had brothers killed in
>crossfire, or by the famous 'bombs over baghdad'? America hasn't
>fought a single war on its on soil since roughly the 1880's. I am
>probably just a cynical old bastard, but maybe this a hint to mind
>their own business? Maybe other countries could solve their own
>problems. I still sympathize with those involved, but I also feel
>like it was unevitable.
>
> Thankyou if you did read this whole msg, and please don't flame me
>or worse, these are just my thoughts.
>
> Caleb
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
>
>



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*** EOOH ***
From: "Doug Triplett, Superhero in Training !!!" <trippy@dougtriplett.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT World Trade Centre
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 22:51:51 -0400
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<Begin Quote>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Raymond Feist
>To: FEISTFANS-L
>Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 9:33 PM
>Subject: Re: OT World Trade Centre
>
>Jerry Pournelle told some of us today he thinks today will mark the end of
>the American Republic. He says we may now be seeing the dawn of the American
>Empire. He's of the opinion we will now start overthrowing some of these
>governments, starting with Afghanistan and put the rebels there into power
>and just tell the Russians and Chinese to back off.
>
>September 11, 2001 may be the day we look back upon and say was the day we
>realized we could no longer pretend we didn't live in a global community
>where we are all, ultimately, responsible for one another. "New World
>Order," was the term Bush (Sr.) used when the Berlin Wall fell and when the
>Soviet Union dissolved. I guess it's time to decide what that order will be.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>
<END QUOTE>

---------------------------------------

The begining of the American Empire... The situation Jerry is presenting is
quite like the events that followed the destruction of a US battleship in
Havana harbor back in the 1800s. The result of that was the destruction of
the Spanish Armada and the complete desctruction of an empire.

This was the first of 3 times the sleeping giant has awakened and the world
was never the same after each time. What changes will come to the world
because of this?

Once again we see that those that dont remeber their history will repeat it.
If we follow the course Jerry sees, I pray that we use great caution.

May God watch over us all,

Doug



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From: plite@xtra.co.nz
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT World Trade Centre
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 2:52:21 +0000
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> > What I am trying to say, is that this tradegy was long overdue.
> Yes many lives were lost, yes it was a cowardly act, but think of
> what the US has done to the people that caused the terror. According
> to statistics USA, over 1.3 million people have been killed in
> American peace keeping operations in the past couple years. How do
> you think those people feel? How many of them had brothers killed in
> crossfire, or by the famous 'bombs over baghdad'? America hasn't
> fought a single war on its on soil since roughly the 1880's. I am
> probably just a cynical old bastard, but maybe this a hint to mind
> their own business? Maybe other countries could solve their own
> problems. I still sympathize with those involved, but I also feel
> like it was unevitable.
> >
> > Thankyou if you did read this whole msg, and please don't flame me
> or worse, these are just my thoughts.

Damn, this message makes me ill.  Now is the time for expressing
sympathies and condolences for those affected by this tragedy, not
sanctimonious "you had it coming" messages.  Where is your sense of
common human compassion?

We in New Zealand are horrified by what has occured, the worst
peacetime tragedy we have ever seen.  There was a suggestion that we
close parliament and our own stock exchange in response to this
horror, but it was decided that "we don't shut up shop for Hitler".
Listening to President Bush and your House of Representatives I see
America feels this way too.  Good luck and god bless.

Paul Cowan.



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Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 20:03:33 -0700
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Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 20:03:33 -0700
From: Carl Dershem <dershem@home.com>
Organization: Project Selene
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT World Trade Centre
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James_Turnbull@kaz.com.au wrote:
> 
> Rayond Feist wrote:
> 
> >Arab terrorist hate the US for one reason only: without the US, Israel
> would not exist today.  The arabs don't hate Israel because it's Jewish,
> they hate it >because it's a democracy.  They don't want their own
> oppressed people looking across borders and seeing a successful nation who
> elect their own leaders.  >These are nations of tribal people three
> generations removed from being nomadic goat herders and who are only
> significant to global politics because their >nations sit on a vast reserve
> of oil.  This is the reason we didn't go into Bagdad and remove Sadam, and
> put an opposition government in place, so that two >years later there could
> be free elections.  Because the very people we were "protecting" urged us
> not to do so.   The ruling families of the area didn't want a >democracy in
> Bagdad.
> 
> I don't believe you'll find that Arabs hate Israel for it's democratic
> practices alone.  The people of the former state of Palestine have a
> legitimate gripe with the fact that they had their homes arbitarily taken
> from them by Western governments post-WW2 by the formation of the state of
> Israel.  Whilst I agree many Arab nations - particularly those with
> dictatorial governments of one form or another - find the threat to their
> power by the formation of democratic governments quite considerable I do
> not believe it is that alone that motivates their hatred of Israel.

Actually, you'll find that a lot of it goes back to the post-WWI era,
and the Sykes-Picot treaty, which split up the middle east among the
lines that Britain and France found best suited their colonial
ambitions, and did not take the placement of local peoples into account
at all.  But that's still a totally stupid reason for killing thousands
of innocent people.

> >And the people who killed tens of thousands today didn't do it to make
> those innocents killed by bombing Bagdad "feel better," they did it because
> terrorism >is the tool of those who wish to destabilize, inflict terror,
> and distract.
> 
> Again I agree.  Terrorism has always been the last resort of cowards.

And often the first.  Pfui.

> Terrorism against civilian targets is an act designed to assault the
> stability of a society.  It is intended to provoke the reduction of
> freedoms and liberty through fear and hatred.  It is an attempt by the
> terrorists to bring the people who they attack down to their level.  The
> ultimate tragedy of terrorist acts is that they forever change the
> character of a people and a nation often to the detriment of the freedoms
> and values of that people and nation.

terrorism begets terror.  terror is first cousin (some might say
fraternal twin) to anger and hatred.  Those who sow terror often reap
far more than they intended.
 
> >Jerry Pournelle told some of us today he thinks today will mark the end of
> the American Republic.  He says we may now be seeing the dawn of the
> American >Empire.  He's of the opinion we will now start overthrowing some
> of these governments, starting with Afghanistan and put the rebels there
> into power and just >tell the Russians and Chinese to back off.
> 
> Perhaps also the thing to observe will be whether this will also mean the
> beginning of the end of the freedoms of the American Republic.

And, unfortunately, there are many who would prefer that ending.

What a tragic freaking waste.

cd



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Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 20:35:34 -0700
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 20:35:34 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT World Trade Centre
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On Tuesday, September 11, 2001, at 07:10 PM, James_Turnbull@kaz.com.au 
wrote:

>
> Rayond Feist wrote:
>
>> Arab terrorist hate the US for one reason only: without the US, Israel
> would not exist today.  The arabs don't hate Israel because it's Jewish,
> they hate it >because it's a democracy.  They don't want their own
> oppressed people looking across borders and seeing a successful nation 
> who
> elect their own leaders.  >These are nations of tribal people three
> generations removed from being nomadic goat herders and who are only
> significant to global politics because their >nations sit on a vast 
> reserve
> of oil.  This is the reason we didn't go into Bagdad and remove Sadam, 
> and
> put an opposition government in place, so that two >years later there 
> could
> be free elections.  Because the very people we were "protecting" urged 
> us
> not to do so.   The ruling families of the area didn't want a 
> >democracy in
> Bagdad.
>
> I don't believe you'll find that Arabs hate Israel for it's democratic
> practices alone.  The people of the former state of Palestine have a
> legitimate gripe with the fact that they had their homes arbitarily 
> taken
> from them by Western governments post-WW2 by the formation of the state 
> of
> Israel.  Whilst I agree many Arab nations - particularly those with
> dictatorial governments of one form or another - find the threat to 
> their
> power by the formation of democratic governments quite considerable I do
> not believe it is that alone that motivates their hatred of Israel.

Actually, there is no "legitimate" gripe, just a gripe.  The original 
accords by the UN in 1948 which created the nation of Israel partitioned 
the area into two states, one Jewish and one Arab.  Those Arabs who 
chose to remain were left alone, by and large.  Many Arab communities 
were located near Kibutzes.  When hostilities broke out, many moderate 
Arab leaders were murdered by other Arabs.

This was about lost of power and control.  "Trans Jordan" was the Arab 
state created, yet the Jordanians refused to allow the Palestinians to 
assimilate, instead herding them to "displaced persons" camps which 
endured for decades.  The people from Palestine's biggest problem wasn't 
the Israelies, who never forced them to leave, it was the other Arabs 
who abused them, neglected them, and used their kids as shock troops and 
terrorists.

"Many Arab nations -- particularly those with dictatorial 
governments . . . "?  Which Arab states aren't dictatorships?  The 
closests thing you have to a democracy in the Middle East is Egypt, 
which is like saying a really ugly dog is the most attractive animal in 
a herd of pigs.

Again, read David Fromkin's book, to really understand the struggle 
today.


>> And the people who killed tens of thousands today didn't do it to make
> those innocents killed by bombing Bagdad "feel better," they did it 
> because
> terrorism >is the tool of those who wish to destabilize, inflict terror,
> and distract.
>
> Again I agree.  Terrorism has always been the last resort of cowards.
> Terrorism against civilian targets is an act designed to assault the
> stability of a society.  It is intended to provoke the reduction of
> freedoms and liberty through fear and hatred.  It is an attempt by the
> terrorists to bring the people who they attack down to their level.  The
> ultimate tragedy of terrorist acts is that they forever change the
> character of a people and a nation often to the detriment of the 
> freedoms
> and values of that people and nation.
>
>> Jerry Pournelle told some of us today he thinks today will mark the 
>> end of
> the American Republic.  He says we may now be seeing the dawn of the
> American >Empire.  He's of the opinion we will now start overthrowing 
> some
> of these governments, starting with Afghanistan and put the rebels there
> into power and just >tell the Russians and Chinese to back off.
>
> Perhaps also the thing to observe will be whether this will also mean 
> the
> beginning of the end of the freedoms of the American Republic.


Which was Jerry's point.  He sees this as a bad thing, as we will lose 
individual freedom.  Maybe we can't have free societies if there are six 
billion of us on this mud ball.  I don't know.  I lack the wisdom to 
know.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.

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Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 13:57:12 +1000 (GMT+1000)
From: Aaron Irving <s355156@student.uq.edu.au>
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On Tue, 11 Sep 2001, [iso-8859-1] Ragnar E. Sørensen wrote:
> From: "Michael Gibson" <gibfish@gibbyco.freeserve.co.uk>
> I can only say I am shocked, its unbelievable and horrible.
> My thoughts are indeed with you, seeing the images over and over again
> on the news it still doesn't register, its like the Tom Clancy novel
> Executive Orders or
> a movie, but this isn't fiction this is real and yet its so unrealistic to
> see it happen. I am speechless
> at this horrible act and I can only hope the monsters that are responsible
> will be brought to justice.
> My condolences to those whom have lost someone, I have many friends near
> these places and will
> be trying to get hold of them in the next hours.
> With the most sincere respect and sympathy,
> Ragnar Ekelund Sørensen
It reminded me a lot of the movie "The siege" with Bruce Willis and I
think Denzel washington.
The thing that shocked me the most is the story about how the palestineans
are roaming the streets saying "God is great" <Though I think the paper
screwed up, wouldn't they be saying allah> and handing out candy to
everyone. They believe god is taking revenge on the americans.



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Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 21:05:55 -0700
From: Carl Dershem <dershem@home.com>
Organization: Project Selene
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Terrorist Activities
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Aaron Irving wrote:
> 
> The thing that shocked me the most is the story about how the palestineans
> are roaming the streets saying "God is great" <Though I think the paper
> screwed up, wouldn't they be saying allah> and handing out candy to
> everyone. They believe god is taking revenge on the americans.

"Allah" is the arabic word for "God".  Or one of the many names of god.



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Subject: OT Israel and Palestine (was Re: OT World Trade Centre)
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From: James_Turnbull@kaz.com.au
Subject: OT Israel and Palestine (was Re: OT World Trade Centre)
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 14:21:16 +1000
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Raymond Feist wrote:

>Actually, there is no "legitimate" gripe, just a gripe.

I suppose in answer to your question I disagree that they don't have a
legitimate gripe.  There are, after all, two sides to every story.  The
Israeli's did forcibly remove a number of moderate Arab communities based
on the actions of a smaller numbers of extremists.  The justification for
this was the defense of the kibbutzim from attacks.  That the Palestinian's
Arab neighbours also mistreated them doesn't preclude the fact that they
were ejected from lands that the accords had granted to them.

Try reading _The War for Palestine: Rewriting the History of 1948_ edited
by Eugene Rogan.  It offers some interesting perspectives on the conflict.

>Again, read David Fromkin's book, to really understand the struggle today.

I have read his book, amongst a number of others, having done a degree in
Politics with an emphasis on the Mid-East.  I firmly believe that there
have been wrongs committed on both sides of the conflict - atrocities
committed by both Palestinian and other Arab extremists as well as by
Israel and Israeli's.  To lay the blame entirely at the feet of the
Palestinian community and other Arab nations is simplistic.  The conflict
has evolved and changed to the point where the initial trigger factors are
no longer completely relevant, hence despite the relative moderation of
recent Israeli governments and the formation of the Palestinian Authority,
this had little or no effect on the violence in the area.  Too much blood
has been shed and too many lives warped by the conflict.  I suspect nothing
can be done to stop the violence now - I don't expect to see an end to the
bloodshed in my lifetime.

As for democracy in Arab nations it is present, however broken and
distorted, in Egypt, Algeria, Jordan, Syria, and Lebanon.  I believe its
mere presence should be praised and encouraged.  Even Iran maintains some
democractic practices and the very courageous acts of journalists and
moderates in that country to promote those practices show great hope for
the future of this country and others.

Regards

James Turnbull
Sydney, Australia



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From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Terrorist Activities....NMD
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Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 14:32:01 +1000 (GMT+1000)
From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Terrorist Activities....NMD
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Just as a side note. Had do a term paper on America's NMD system (the
proposal, implications for arms races etc etc), and one of the key
concerns would be that the NMD could  not prevent all terrorist attacks.
In fact one of the key points that any attempt to impose an NMD would see
a rise in other types of Terrorist activity (such as carrying
biological/nuclear devices physcially into the country)

Just wondering, in light of WTC attacks, will the NMD be expanded,
scrapped or new methods brought in?

[I can provide a bibiliogrpahy if people want]

> I feel a need to reply to this so called prophecy by Nostradamus.
>
> I am a Aviation Technian in the United States Navy, and the last thing we need is people waving WORLD WAR III signs around.  Perception is a personal thing and any prophecy throughout the times can be twisted enough to mean what we want to see in it.  As an Armed Force, we are on a state of readiness like never before.  Nothing like this has happened on American soil since Pearl Harbor.  At that time President Truman had to make the hardest choice of his life.  And while the Bombs at both Hiroshima and Nagasaki were devestating beyond belief, they were by far the smartest choice that he could make.  He choose to take the path that would in all actuality save the most Americans.
>
> I hope and I pray that it does not come to that again, but we as Americans cannot allow something like this to pass lightly.  We already have two full carrier groups and all the east coast cruisers on our way over to be ready to give them the appropriate repsonse.  I pray only that God will save the innocent people that will be brought into this conflict by the choices of a select evil few.
>
> I have no animosity towards you in any way, but I would only ask that anyone who reads this email would realize that this is a time for America to band together and mourn its loss and put herself back together so that when the appropriate time comes that we can deliver justice to those that brought this upon the country I am sworn to defend.
>
> If too many people hold up WORLD WAR III signs and fear the worst, the chaos that will ensue, will justify the efforts of the cowards that did this to us.  Let us instead band together and realize that we are the United States of America.  We do not back down!  We do not tolerate terrorist activity, especially on our soil!  And we will not be beaten.  If they who did this feel that they can beat us, then let them step up to the plate and try.
>
> Jeffrey Flower.
> AT - US NAVY
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: Adam012882@cs.com
>   To: FEISTFANS-L
>   Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 4:29 PM
>   Subject: Terrorist Activities....Nostradamus
>
>
>   In the City of God there will be a great thunder, Two brothers torn apart by
>   Chaos, while the fortress endures, the great leader will succumb" , "The
>   third big war will begin when the big city is burning"
>   - Nostradamus 1654
>

Thanks
Darragh
-=-=
www.iamtheporkfireman.com
[Email]: s356179@student.uq.edu.au [ICQ]: 114283262



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From: Adam012882@cs.com
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 00:34:35 EDT
Subject: Re: OT Israel and Palestine (was Re: OT World Trade Centre)
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In a message dated 9/11/01 9:29:50 PM Pacific Daylight Time, 
James_Turnbull@kaz.com.au writes:


> democracy in Arab nations it is present, however broken and
> distorted, in Egypt, Algeria, Jordan, Syria, and Lebanon.  I believe its
> mere presence should be praised and encouraged.  

You forgot palestine

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Subject: Re: OT World Trade Centre
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From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
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> Jerry Pournelle told some of us today he thinks today will mark the end
> of the American Republic.  He says we may now be seeing the dawn of the
> American Empire.  He's of the opinion we will now start overthrowing
> some of these governments, starting with Afghanistan and put the rebels
> there into power and just tell the Russians and Chinese to back off.
> Best, R.E.F.

Is an American Empire necessarily a good thing? [Not a flame intended
respons]


Being in Australia, we may be out of the loop (media-wise) but has any
mid-east Terrorist organisation been blamed for the disaster (by the US).

As just reported on local radio here, certain mid-east news organisations
have made the point that bombings throughout America in the last 10-20
years (Oklaholma as such) have initailly been blamed on mid-east
terrorists but then discovered to be Americans.


Thanks
Darragh
-=-=
www.iamtheporkfireman.com
[Email]: s356179@student.uq.edu.au [ICQ]: 114283262



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Though depressing, solving violence with violence seems to be the only
rational solution. Does this say anything for human nature?

> Caleb Fox wrote:
> >
> > Maybe other countries could solve their own problems. I still
> > sympathize with those involved, but I also feel like it was
> > unevitable.
>
> We are the ones that put Israel together and have helped it stand over
> the last 50 years. We are the ones that put our hand in places like
> Afghanistan, in Iraq, and Iran. Now we have these countries lashing back
> at us, yet we are expected to sit back and let our buildings blown up?
> let our people be killed?
>
> I'll not sit back and say we've had clean hands the last 50 years, but
> nor will I sit back and accept this tragedy. There are other ways to
> deal with things than violence, but anything less than striking back is
> unacceptable.
>
> I have a good feeling that this is the last we're going to see of
> terrorist acts on American soil.
>
> Oh, and to continue, we're not the ones forcing the Israelies and the
> Palestenians to kill each other, we don't have soldiers killing off one
> side or the other.
> If you get shot at, you're going to shoot back. Plain and simple.
>
> Craig J. Ries
>
>

Thanks
Darragh
-=-=
www.iamtheporkfireman.com
[Email]: s356179@student.uq.edu.au [ICQ]: 114283262



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From: "C.T. Cusimano" <supert@redshift.com>
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References: <13c.147b0ce.28d03fdb@cs.com>
Subject: Re: OT Israel and Palestine (was Re: OT World Trade Centre)
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 21:44:24 -0700
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From: "C.T. Cusimano" <supert@redshift.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT Israel and Palestine (was Re: OT World Trade Centre)
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 21:44:24 -0700
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a democracy needs a strong well educated middle class to work in the
middle east and otherpoor countries the middle class is weak or
nonexistant and history proves a democracy would be weak in such
circumstances...

considering this the american middle class is getting smaller every
day and the education standards of the people are getting worse too.
Throw this in with a weak presidential election and u can extrapolate
some not so nice future for americans.

when you are jsut comncerned about making rent or buying your next
meal the abbstract concept of freedom and democracy and self
government become less important....

sad times for us.

*sigh* and the bloodshed over this just started I just hope no draft
 is instated and vengeance is swift and over with....

my hope for the survivors and peace for the living and the dead among
the victims...

C.T.
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: Adam012882@cs.com 
>To: FEISTFANS-L 
>Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 9:34 PM
>Subject: Re: OT Israel and Palestine (was Re: OT World Trade Centre)
>
>
>In a message dated 9/11/01 9:29:50 PM Pacific Daylight Time, 
>James_Turnbull@kaz.com.au writes: 
>>democracy in Arab nations it is present, however broken and 
>>distorted, in Egypt, Algeria, Jordan, Syria, and Lebanon.  I believe its 
>>mere presence should be praised and encouraged.  
>
>You forgot palestine 

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From: Victoria E Quinton <mermaid@alphalink.com.au>
Subject: Re: OT Israel and Palestine (was Re: OT World Trade Centre)
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Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 14:51:56 +1000
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Victoria E Quinton <mermaid@alphalink.com.au>
Subject: Re: OT Israel and Palestine (was Re: OT World Trade Centre)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

How can we all best work for a better future?


At 09:44 PM 11/09/01 -0700, you wrote: 
>a democracy needs a strong  well educated middle class to work
>in the middle east and otherpoor countries the middle class is weak or
>nonexistant and history proves a democracy would be weak in such
>circumstances...

considering this the american middle class is getting smaller every
day and the education standards of the people are getting worse too. 
Throw this in with a weak presidential election and u can extrapolate
some not so nice future for americans.

when you are jsut comncerned about making rent or buying your next
meal the abbstract concept of freedom and democracy and self
government become less important....

sad times for us.

*sigh* and the bloodshed over this just started I just hope no draft
is instated and vengeance is swift and over with....

my hope for the survivors and peace for the living and the dead among
the victims...

C.T.

>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: Adam012882@cs.com
>To: mailto:FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 9:34 PM
>Subject: Re: OT Israel and Palestine (was Re: OT World Trade Centre)

>In a message dated 9/11/01 9:29:50 PM Pacific Daylight Time, 
>James_Turnbull@kaz.com.au writes: 

>>democracy in Arab nations it is present, however broken and 
>>distorted, in Egypt, Algeria, Jordan, Syria, and Lebanon.  I believe its 
>>mere presence should be praised and encouraged.
>You forgot palestine

Victoria Quinton
mermaid@alphalink.com.au

http://www.alphalink.com.au/~mermaid

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From: "Brian Blair" <bsblair@comwares.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Terrorist Activities....Nostradamus 
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 23:57:50 -0500
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Brian Blair" <bsblair@comwares.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Terrorist Activities....Nostradamus 
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 23:57:50 -0500
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I have three things to say after reading the previous posts on this topic:

First:  As an American I am outraged at this incident of cowardice.  I do
not think the attack today was justified in any way, shape, or form.  I have
a vague understanding of the events that have transpired in the mid-east,
and I intend on reading the book by David Fromkin that Ray urged everyone to
read in order to better my understanding of the situation.

Second:  As a father of four children under the age of four, I am afraid of
what this might mean for their future.  I value my freedom, as I am sure
that every American does.  I want my children to have the same freedoms that
I have had.  That is why I live in this great country and not somewhere
else.  Sure, we have our problems, but there are many far worse places to
live.

Third:  My heart and prayers go out to all who have been personally touched
by this tremendous tragedy.  Nothing can ever replace the lives that were
lost today, be they civilians, firefighters, policemen, or military
personnel.

FInally:  Has anyone noticed the symbolism in what Nostradamus said about
'Two brothers torn apart by Chaos'  - The two brothers being the two towers.
Just a thought.


Brian Blair


>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Adam012882@cs.com
>Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 4:30 PM
>To: FEISTFANS-L
>Subject: Terrorist Activities....Nostradamus
>
>
>In the City of God there will be a great thunder, Two brothers torn apart by
>Chaos, while the fortress endures, the great leader will succumb" , "The
>third big war will begin when the big city is burning"
>- Nostradamus 1654

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Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 22:55:38 -0600
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Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 22:55:38 -0600
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT World Trade Centre
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Darragh Murray wrote:
>
> As just reported on local radio here, certain mid-east news organisations
> have made the point that bombings throughout America in the last 10-20
> years (Oklaholma as such) have initailly been blamed on mid-east
> terrorists but then discovered to be Americans.

Considering those incidents not done by Islamic extremists, and those
done by said extremists, it's not surprising that we would first direct
our attentions to such groups.

There was an attempt to bomb the WTC back in '93, a couple of our
African embassies blown up a couple of years ago, the attack on our
battleship in Yemen last year.

Those, and apparently numerous other attacks prevented by bin Laden,
against one Timothy McVey (note it was also a Marine that assassinated
Kennedy, iirc).

If you've followed things, you'll see that there might be reason to
believe it's bin Laden. First and foremost: it's his style of ballgame.
Second, one of bin Laden's lieutenants apparently was scheduled to be
sentenced tomorrow (today, whatever) for his role in the Yemen bombing.

Now Afghanistan might be embroiled in a civil war between the
controlling Taliban & the 5% of the population minority, the Northern
Alliance, who had a possibly successful assassination attempt on their
leader by the Taliban.

Then again, bin Laden has denied any involvement, which would be unusual
for him as well. Atleast, for now, Bush isn't playing trigger happy and
is waiting to wait and gather information. They're going for the black
boxes of those planes and they've already tracing some leads based on
the passenger manifests of those same planes.
As it is, tonight there are searches being conducted in Florida, as well
as a car was towed from Logan Airport in Boston.

Many others believe based on the existing evidence that it's bin Laden.
There's also a reporter in London who said he interviewed bin Laden 3
weeks ago and the man gave a warning saying that an unprecedented attack
was coming.

Make light of this as you wish, I suppose.

Craig J. Ries



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From: Alex Loke <nerf@alphalink.com.au>
Subject: Re: OT World Trade Centre
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 14:57:18 +1000
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Alex Loke <nerf@alphalink.com.au>
Subject: Re: OT World Trade Centre
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Hello,

At 10:51 PM 11/09/2001 -0400, you wrote:
>This was the first of 3 times the sleeping giant has awakened and the world
>was never the same after each time. What changes will come to the world
>because of this?

Hopefully it will mean a unity of purpose. My main worry however, is that
this unity becomes a retributive effort. That in the search for justice to
protect liberty we do not lose our liberties (I apologise for sounding
maudlin). My sincere hope is that unspeakable violence will not be met in
kind, merely to maintain confidence or appease the reactionary few. I am, I
must say, most worried by the words 'War on Terrorism'

By the same token I have confidence that the American people will prove
stronger than this.

I would like to express my most sincere condolences, but I find myself
unsure exactly who to offer it to. I have relatives in NY whom I have yet
to hear from. The world mourns.

Regards,

Alex Loke



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References: <13c.147b0ce.28d03fdb@cs.com> <20010912045434.KNCO4715.mss.rdc2.nsw.optushome.com.au@co3055548-a>
Subject: Re: OT Israel and Palestine (was Re: OT World Trade Centre)
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 22:03:56 -0700
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*** EOOH ***
From: "C.T. Cusimano" <supert@redshift.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT Israel and Palestine (was Re: OT World Trade Centre)
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 22:03:56 -0700
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I've always been a strong believer in education schools schhols
schools and teach compasion and empathy as well as math and science.
*g* must sound like a dirty hippie..

>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: Victoria E Quinton 
>To: FEISTFANS-L 
>Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 9:51 PM
>Subject: Re: OT Israel and Palestine (was Re: OT World Trade Centre)
>
>
>
>How can we all best work for a better future?
>
>
>At 09:44 PM 11/09/01 -0700, you wrote: 
>
>>a democracy needs a strong well educated middle class to work in
>>the middle east and otherpoor countries the middle class is weak
>>or nonexistant and history proves a democracy would be weak in
>>such circumstances...
>   
>considering this the american middle class is getting smaller
>every day and the education standards of the people are getting
>worse too.  Throw this in with a weak presidential election and u
>can extrapolate some not so nice future for americans.
> 
>when you are jsut comncerned about making rent or buying your next
>meal the abbstract concept of freedom and democracy and self
>government become less important....
> 
>sad times for us.
> 
>*sigh* and the bloodshed over this just started I just hope no
> draft is instated and vengeance is swift and over with....
> 
>my hope for the survivors and peace for the living and the dead
>among the victims...
> 
>C.T.
>>----- Original Message ----- 
>>From: Adam012882@cs.com 
>>To: FEISTFANS-L 
>>Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 9:34 PM 
>>Subject: Re: OT Israel and Palestine (was Re: OT World Trade Centre)
>>
>>
>>In a message dated 9/11/01 9:29:50 PM Pacific Daylight Time, 
>>James_Turnbull@kaz.com.au writes: 
>>
>>>democracy in Arab nations it is present, however broken and
>>>distorted, in Egypt, Algeria, Jordan, Syria, and Lebanon.  I
>>>believe its mere presence should be praised and encouraged.
>>You forgot palestine 
>
>Victoria Quinton
>mermaid@alphalink.com.au
>
>http://www.alphalink.com.au/~mermaid 

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Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 23:04:04 -0600
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Nostradamus
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> Brian Blair wrote:
> 
> FInally:  Has anyone noticed the symbolism in what Nostradamus said
> about 'Two brothers torn apart by Chaos'  - The two brothers being the
> two towers.  Just a thought.

A friend of mine gave me that quote as well, earlier today, then he also
stated that the prediction date was August 2000. For a man 350 years
dead, being off a year shouldn't be too shabby.

Frankly, I'm not fond of seers or these predictions, and I haven't
genuinely studied enough about Nostradamus and his book of predictions
to form an educated opinion, but it does leave one to wonder...

Craig J. Ries



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Subject: Re: OT Israel and Palestine (was Re: OT World Trade Centre)
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT Israel and Palestine (was Re: OT World Trade Centre)
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 00:07:09 -0500
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They would have to teach math and science first.  I agree, one of
the strongest weapons in the world against all things, is education.

-James

----- Original Message -----
>
>I've always been a strong believer in education schools schhols
>schools and teach compasion and empathy as well as math and science.
>
>*g*
>
>must sound like a dirty hippie..
>


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Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 08:14:52 +0300
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Paavo Kakko <joeru@mbnet.fi>
Subject: Re: OT World Trade Centre
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At 17:27 11.9.2001 -0700, you wrote:
>Hi. I am also deeply sorry for those americans invovled in the bombing of
>WTO buildings and other associated activities. For those of you that had a
>family member or friend hurt or killed in the incident, maybe this isn't
>for you.            What I am trying to say, is that this tradegy was long
>overdue. Yes many lives were lost, yes it was a cowardly act, but think of
>what the US has done to the people that caused the terror. According to
>statistics USA, over 1.3 million people have been killed in American peace
>keeping operations in the past couple years. How do you think those people
>feel? 

  There's a difference between terroristic attacks directed at civilians,
and antiterroristic attacks at terroristic targets which, unfortunate but a
fact of life because terrorists have a tendency to hide behind innocent
people, result in civilian casualties.

> "but think of what the US has done to the people that caused the terror." 

  The forces behind these acts haven't yet been discerned, there are of
course strong suspicions of Middle Eastern countries and particularly Usama
bin Laden, but nothing that can yet be called solid evidence. One can only
hope that the "forces" behind these strikes can be identified and isn't a
nation, or a terroristic faction supported by a nation, because that is
something that almost inevitably result in far more civilian deaths,
considering the usual consequences from terroristic strikes made against
the US.
  I can understand, but not relate to, the blind raging that seems to go
through American citizens. I've read dozens of posts in different
newsgroups that cry out for blood of Palestinians in general .. the more
massive the hostile counter-efforts are, the more massive the civilian
casualties will be, but that doesn't seem to faze some of the people I've
seen writing. (No, haven't seen any on this list)

>How many of them had brothers killed in crossfire, or by the famous
>'bombs over baghdad'? America hasn't fought a single war on its on soil
>since roughly the 1880's. I am probably just a cynical old bastard, but
>maybe this a hint to mind their own business? Maybe other countries could
>solve their own problems. I still sympathize with those involved, but I
>also feel like it was unevitable.

 Terrorism is a problem no one is safe from, if other countries would just
solve their own problems, terrorism would _never_ disappear. It's possible
it won't happen anyway, as it _is_ a humane world we live in, and
prejudice, anger and fear is humane, but terrorism is something that needs
to be handled by making it useless. I do agree with USA's counterterrorism
policy, that is not to make any concessions, because bending in to it is
something that will give the people who support the terrorism a reason to
go on, because they will feel they have a way to force their way on others.

 I woke up around 5 am, and connected to net, just to see if a friend of
mine was around and had knowledge of whether his family is ok, since he has
a lot of relatives in NY. And to support him had he lost any, I'm not the
most religious person you'll meet, but I admit I prayed for the people
seriously injured not to die.
 If something I'm furiated by the fact the state of Iraq hasn't offered its
condolences, but considers the act to be of righteous cause.


 -- Paavo Kakko

"The perfect gentleman is he who never unintentionally causes pain."



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Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 22:56:24 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT Israel and Palestine (was Re: OT World Trade Centre)
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On Tuesday, September 11, 2001, at 09:21 PM, James_Turnbull@kaz.com.au 
wrote:

>

> As for democracy in Arab nations it is present, however broken and
> distorted, in Egypt, Algeria, Jordan, Syria, and Lebanon.  I believe its
> mere presence should be praised and encouraged.  Even Iran maintains 
> some
> democractic practices and the very courageous acts of journalists and
> moderates in that country to promote those practices show great hope for
> the future of this country and others.

Syria?  Then we'll agree to disagree on the definition of "democratic."  
Last time I looked the Bath Party was about as democratic as the 
Nazi's.   Lebanon was nearly destroyed because it attempted to be a 
democratic state and is just now emerging from Syrian domination and the 
near total devastation of the "Paris of the Middle East."  Algeria, I'll 
concede, though it's North African, rather than Middle Eastern in the 
common usage.  But Jordan and Egypt are ruled by a select few, their 
"democracies" being limited to the internal power elite of their ruling 
political parties, much as Mexico was until reciently.

"Democratic practices?"  Like what, shame "open" elections?  Letting 
dissidents rot in prison rather than simply shooting them?

Dressing a pig in a tutu doesn't make it a ballerina.

Best, R.E.F.

----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 23:01:39 -0700
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 23:01:39 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT World Trade Centre
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On Tuesday, September 11, 2001, at 09:40 PM, Darragh Murray wrote:

>> Jerry Pournelle told some of us today he thinks today will mark the end
>> of the American Republic.  He says we may now be seeing the dawn of the
>> American Empire.  He's of the opinion we will now start overthrowing
>> some of these governments, starting with Afghanistan and put the rebels
>> there into power and just tell the Russians and Chinese to back off.
>> Best, R.E.F.
>
> Is an American Empire necessarily a good thing? [Not a flame intended
> respons]

That's the heart of Jerry's position.  It may not be a good thing.  It 
may be necessary in the evolution of the human race, however.  It may be 
you can't have local rule with nations willing to export terrorism or 
willing to use low yield nuclear weapons or chemical/biological agents 
just because they believe they have a "mandate from God."  It may be you 
have to throw away the myth of the rugged individualist (particularly 
favorite American myth) when you start packing six billion plus people 
on this mudball.  I don't know.

But it also may be an historical inevitability.  It may be a bloody one, 
too, if China, Russia, and some others decide they want some control of 
regions or co-dominion.

And it may never truly be an "American Empire," but rather that the US's 
foreign policy will become imperial, but we might be able to persuade 
allies and neutrals this is a good thing, and maybe the bullets won't 
fly.

I don't know.

>
>
> Being in Australia, we may be out of the loop (media-wise) but has any
> mid-east Terrorist organisation been blamed for the disaster (by the 
> US).
>
> As just reported on local radio here, certain mid-east news 
> organisations
> have made the point that bombings throughout America in the last 10-20
> years (Oklaholma as such) have initailly been blamed on mid-east
> terrorists but then discovered to be Americans.

This appears to be coming directly to the feet of Osama bin Laden.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.

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Subject: RE: OT World Trade Centre
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 01:03:05 -0500
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From: "Diamond Joe" <diamondjoesmith@yahoo.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: OT World Trade Centre
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 01:03:05 -0500
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Ok. I'm from Canada. Nobody has more problems overall with the american
'superiority' complex than us. HOWEVER this is NOT the kind of tragedy i
would wish on ANY country. I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. The US may
not be the "invincible powerhouse" that they try to be, but to say that
50,000 innocent people should lose their lives to prove a point like that
just isn't concievable. It's that kind of mentality that creates a tragedy
like this. Nobody should ever say "well they deserved it" for any kind of
unprovoked attack such as this. Should the people that worked in the World
Trade Center be punished for what may or may not be a mistake by the
American Military? Do you think that defenseless american citizens should be
harmed by cowards who don't respect the basic tenets of human life?

If it were your family, would you feel the same way?

As of yet, i may not personally know anyone that died or was harmed, but
they're all someone's family, and my thoughts and prayers go out to them
all.

Joseph Allan Smith
>  -----Original Message-----
>  From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Caleb Fox
>  Sent: September 11, 2001 7:27 PM
>  To: FEISTFANS-L
>  Subject: Re: OT World Trade Centre
>
>
>  Hi. I am also deeply sorry for those americans invovled in the bombing of
>WTO buildings and other associated activities. For those of you that had a
>family member or friend hurt or killed in the incident, maybe this isn't for
>you.
>
>
>
>
>
>  What I am trying to say, is that this tradegy was long overdue. Yes many
>lives were lost, yes it was a cowardly act, but think of what the US has
>done to the people that caused the terror. According to statistics USA, over
>1.3 million people have been killed in American peace keeping operations in
>the past couple years. How do you think those people feel? How many of them
>had brothers killed in crossfire, or by the famous 'bombs over baghdad'?
>America hasn't fought a single war on its on soil since roughly the 1880's.
>I am probably just a cynical old bastard, but maybe this a hint to mind
>their own business? Maybe other countries could solve their own problems. I
>still sympathize with those involved, but I also feel like it was
>unevitable.
>
>  Thankyou if you did read this whole msg, and please don't flame me or
>worse, these are just my thoughts.
>
>  Caleb
>
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>--
>  Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
>

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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 23:03:08 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT World Trade Centre
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On Tuesday, September 11, 2001, at 09:42 PM, Darragh Murray wrote:

>
> Though depressing, solving violence with violence seems to be the only
> rational solution. Does this say anything for human nature?
>

Yes.  It says our technological evolution has far outstripped our social 
evolution and that in turn has move far beyond our biology.  We are a 
violent species.

We are, however, trying to get better.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Subject: Re: OT Israel and Palestine (was Re: OT World Trade Centre)
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From: James_Turnbull@kaz.com.au
Subject: Re: OT Israel and Palestine (was Re: OT World Trade Centre)
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 16:12:18 +1000
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Raymond Feist wrote:

> Dressing a pig in a tutu doesn't make it a ballerina.

But better than no tutu at all.  Which was my argument.

Regards

James Turnbull
Sydney, Australia.



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From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
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Yes, but right now the American mood seems to be along the lines of:
"D*** the tutu, fry the ****ing pig!"

Sorry to cuss but I wanted to be very clear on the emphasis of this
point.

-James

> > Dressing a pig in a tutu doesn't make it a ballerina.
>
> But better than no tutu at all.  Which was my argument.



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I extend my sensearest (sorry for the spelling)
condolences to all those affected by the attacks,
which is all people in America I guess :( I hope this
is the end of the violence, if they can get the
terrorists without loss of any more civilians then
great, but please, no more innocents die. I wish you
all the best, and hope you can recover quickly.

Matt


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From: "A Irving" <aignome@dingoblue.net.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
References: <20010912064255.19097.qmail@web13007.mail.yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: OT World Trade Centre
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 17:17:46 +1000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "A Irving" <aignome@dingoblue.net.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT World Trade Centre
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 17:17:46 +1000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I understand that people are beginning to blame Osami Bin Laden for the
bombing. Some people say it is american groups. I don't know how accurate
the Washington Post is but you might find this link interesting
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A13909-2001Sep11.html which
tends to say that the US has information since the bombing saying it was the
al Qaeda organisation.
----- Original Message -----
From: Matt Sainsbury <lord_al_rashid@yahoo.com>
> I extend my sensearest (sorry for the spelling)
> condolences to all those affected by the attacks,
> which is all people in America I guess :( I hope this
> is the end of the violence, if they can get the
> terrorists without loss of any more civilians then
> great, but please, no more innocents die. I wish you
> all the best, and hope you can recover quickly.
>
> Matt



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Subject: sympathy
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*** EOOH ***
From: Magdel Purcock <MPurcock@autopage.co.za>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: sympathy
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 09:18:11 +0200
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

 

 

To all of you staying in America / with relatives in America, our deepest
sympathy.

We pray that God will stretch out His healing hand and smooth away all pain,
fear and hate of all those traumatised in yesterday's events.

May God bless you all.

Love from South Africa.

Magdel Purcocks

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Subject: Re: OT World Trade Centre
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Roberts" <jroberts6@vtown.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT World Trade Centre
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 17:55:51 +1000
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Raymond Feist" <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2001 4:03 PM
Subject: Re: OT World Trade Centre


>
> On Tuesday, September 11, 2001, at 09:42 PM, Darragh Murray wrote:
>
> >
> > Though depressing, solving violence with violence seems to be the only
> > rational solution. Does this say anything for human nature?
> >
>
> Yes.  It says our technological evolution has far outstripped our social
> evolution and that in turn has move far beyond our biology.  We are a
> violent species.
>
> We are, however, trying to get better.
>
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
>
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
> stupidity.
>
    As long as we continue to keep trying to be better there can still be
hope for the future.

However I still will have nightmares tonight...

God bless

Jamie



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Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 01:54:16 -0600
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
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James Roberts wrote:
> 
> However I still will have nightmares tonight...

My finance woke me up at like 11:15 am with a phone call to tell me what
happened, and it's now just before 2 am Tuesday and I've been in front
of the comp almost the whole time, either trying to reload web pages, or
listening to the radio, or trying to gather info from friends on the net
since I don't have cable yet.

Had a friend on the 'net tell me to take a break, but I don't think I
can sit and read again tonight... probably won't go to bed at all
*sigh*.

Craig J. Ries



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Subject: Re: OT World Trade Centre
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Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 00:58:43 -0700
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu, FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: LAR <lds627@home.com>
Subject: Re: OT World Trade Centre
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>
>And it may never truly be an "American Empire," but rather that the US's 
>foreign policy will become imperial, but we might be able to persuade 
>allies and neutrals this is a good thing, and maybe the bullets won't fly.
>
>I don't know.
>
>

The monroe doctrine has always been the guiding principal of american 
foreign policy. We can not afford to allow others to gain power in our 
sphere of influence (Before anybody says anything about american arrogance, 
I would point out China has had a similar policy for  hundreds of years. 
Thus SE Asia in it's current state). As we depend on Oil, as the WORLD 
depends on oil, that sphere by necessity must extend to the middle east as 
well.

Larry



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 01:06:51 -0700
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu, FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: LAR <lds627@home.com>
Subject: Re: OT World Trade Centre
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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>On Tuesday, September 11, 2001, at 09:40 PM, Darragh Murray wrote:
>
>
>>Being in Australia, we may be out of the loop (media-wise) but has any
>>mid-east Terrorist organisation been blamed for the disaster (by the US).
>>
>>As just reported on local radio here, certain mid-east news organisations
>>have made the point that bombings throughout America in the last 10-20
>>years (Oklaholma as such) have initailly been blamed on mid-east
>>terrorists but then discovered to be Americans.
>
>This appears to be coming directly to the feet of Osama bin Laden.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>----


Correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't the bombing of  One Liberty Plaza done 
by a mid-east group FALN? AS well as the first bombing of the WTC?

Larry



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From: "MAURITS DE RIDDER" <maurits.de.ridder@pandora.be>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
References: <LAW2-F1992bXCH5n00z00000562@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: OT World Trade Centre
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 10:22:41 +0200
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*** EOOH ***
From: "MAURITS DE RIDDER" <maurits.de.ridder@pandora.be>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT World Trade Centre
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 10:22:41 +0200
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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I will surely be the only one who agree with your position. Surely
terorist kill 'innocent people'. But who is inocent, are you, am I?

How manny childern dy throu USA embargo on Irak and Cuba. The people
who today blame the terrorist are thy blaming the USA for theire
direct and indirect killing of 'innocent people'? Why don't we act to
stop this caint of invisible and hypocrite warefare.

If you make war you have to accept that some day the opponent will hit bak.

Excuse my bat english I am a dutchspeaking belgian, 73 years old.

>  ----- Original Message ----- 
>  From: Caleb Fox 
>  To: FEISTFANS-L 
>  Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2001 2:27 AM
>  Subject: Re: OT World Trade Centre
>
>
>  Hi. I am also deeply sorry for those americans invovled in the bombing of WTO buildings and other associated activities. For those of you that had a family member or friend hurt or killed in the incident, maybe this isn't for you. 
>
>
>
>
>
>  What I am trying to say, is that this tradegy was long overdue. Yes many lives were lost, yes it was a cowardly act, but think of what the US has done to the people that caused the terror. According to statistics USA, over 1.3 million people have been killed in American peace keeping operations in the past couple years. How do you think those people feel? How many of them had brothers killed in crossfire, or by the famous 'bombs over baghdad'? America hasn't fought a single war on its on soil since roughly the 1880's. I am probably just a cynical old bastard, but maybe this a hint to mind their own business? Maybe other countries could solve their own problems. I still sympathize with those involved, but I also feel like it was unevitable. 
>
>  Thankyou if you did read this whole msg, and please don't flame me or worse, these are just my thoughts.
>
>  Caleb
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
In-reply-to: <C4500C179498D51198F6009027425CD1C276F4@JHBMAIL> (message from
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Subject: Re: sympathy
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Donal K. Fellows" <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: sympathy
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 10:14:45 +0100
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> From: Magdel Purcock <MPurcock@autopage.co.za>
[ a message with an attachment ]

These might be somewhat extreme times, but that does not mean that
attachments or messages in pure HTML are acceptable on this list.
Most software and services support at least posting in plain text as
well (and if not, you can always get a free account somewhere that
does) and none requires the sending of an attachment.  Thanks for your
consideration everyone!

Donal.
-- 
Donal K. Fellows, Department of Computer Science, University of Manchester, UK.
(work) fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk     Tel: +44-161-275-6137  (preferred email addr.)
(home) donal@ugglan.demon.co.uk  Tel: +44-1274-401017   Mobile: +44-7957-298955
http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~fellowsd/  (Don't quote my .sig; I've seen it before!)



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In-reply-to: <p04310100b7c473a86fb9@[210.24.111.67]> (message from Shawn Chung
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Subject: Re: My Condolences
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Donal K. Fellows" <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: My Condolences
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 10:21:01 +0100
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Shawn Chung <shawnc@cyberway.com.sg>
> What happened in New York on the 11th of September, 2001 will be 
> recorded in world history as the most heinous, murderous single act 
> of terrorism ever.

I sincerely hope so; something as bad again (or worse) is too horrible
to contemplate.

> It must not go unpunished.

And the punishment must take the form of not just dealing with the
organization that carried out the attacks, but also as much as
possible squelching the cause that that organization is fighting
for[*].  I can't think of a better deterrent than the knowledge that
such actions are guaranteed losing moves...

Donal.
[* Well, within reason.  Not to the point of losing our own humanity,
   or the "cure" could end up worse than the "disease". ]
-- 
Donal K. Fellows, Department of Computer Science, University of Manchester, UK.
(work) fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk     Tel: +44-161-275-6137  (preferred email addr.)
(home) donal@ugglan.demon.co.uk  Tel: +44-1274-401017   Mobile: +44-7957-298955
http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~fellowsd/  (Don't quote my .sig; I've seen it before!)



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From: Geir Thomassen Flognfeldt <gflognf@online.no>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT Israel and Palestine (was Re: OT World Trade Centre)
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 11:49:25 +0200 (CEST)
From: Geir Thomassen Flognfeldt <gflognf@online.no>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT Israel and Palestine (was Re: OT World Trade Centre)
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Personally, I think that one of the ways to gain more insight on the
situation in the Middle East than you get by books and other studies,
is to do as my father had to in 1960. Live a year down there...

In my opinion, both that tragic situation, and the actions in
NY/Washington, is tragic, and should not have happened, but somehow, I
think, it proves Macchiavelli's thoughts of the humans...

Geir

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References:  <C4500C179498D51198F6009027425CD1C276F4@JHBMAIL> <E15h66X-0002Lj-00@athene>
Subject: Re: sympathy
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 02:51:06 -0700
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Andrew Scott" <a.sc0tt@home.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: sympathy
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 02:51:06 -0700
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

i agree. Feel free to promote the destruction of a nation with nuclear
weapons but god forbid anyone use HTML since only about 80%+ of us will be
able to read it.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Donal K. Fellows" <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2001 2:14 AM
Subject: Re: sympathy


> > From: Magdel Purcock <MPurcock@autopage.co.za>
> [ a message with an attachment ]
>
> These might be somewhat extreme times, but that does not mean that
> attachments or messages in pure HTML are acceptable on this list.
> Most software and services support at least posting in plain text as
> well (and if not, you can always get a free account somewhere that
> does) and none requires the sending of an attachment.  Thanks for your
> consideration everyone!
>
> Donal.
>



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From: "Donal K. Fellows" <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
In-reply-to: <006101c13b70$71669a10$8ee00b18@cc190114a> (a.sc0tt@home.com)
Subject: Re: sympathy
References: <C4500C179498D51198F6009027425CD1C276F4@JHBMAIL> <E15h66X-0002Lj-00@athene> <006101c13b70$71669a10$8ee00b18@cc190114a>
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Donal K. Fellows" <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: sympathy
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 11:09:20 +0100
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

"Andrew Scott" <a.sc0tt@home.com>
> i agree. Feel free to promote the destruction of a nation with
> nuclear weapons

Where did that come from?

> but god forbid anyone use HTML since only about 80%+ of us will be
> able to read it.

More particularly, list rules forbid anyone using attachments.  HTML
messages are my own bugbear[*] but attachments are Right Out for a
whole range of reasons not limited to limited accessibility, and
bandwidth/resources.  There are also system integrity concerns, and
even some potential copyright issues.

Now, can we *please* consider this particular subthread closed?  It's
even less appropriate in these days of horror than a mobile phone call
in a classical music concert.

Donal.
[* They usually aren't even good HTML.  <rhetorical>Talk about adding
   insult to injury...</rhetorical> ]
-- 
Donal K. Fellows, Department of Computer Science, University of Manchester, UK.
(work) fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk     Tel: +44-161-275-6137  (preferred email addr.)
(home) donal@ugglan.demon.co.uk  Tel: +44-1274-401017   Mobile: +44-7957-298955
http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~fellowsd/  (Don't quote my .sig; I've seen it before!)



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From: Magdel Purcock <MPurcock@autopage.co.za>
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Subject: RE: sympathy
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*** EOOH ***
From: Magdel Purcock <MPurcock@autopage.co.za>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: sympathy
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 12:04:53 +0200
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Sorry about the "attachment" was suppose to be part of the letter - maybe I
did something wrong.....

M

-----Original Message-----
>From: Andrew Scott [mailto:a.sc0tt@home.com]
>Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2001 11:51 AM
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: Re: sympathy
>
>
>i agree. Feel free to promote the destruction of a nation with nuclear
>weapons but god forbid anyone use HTML since only about 80%+ of us will be
>able to read it.
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Donal K. Fellows" <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk>
>To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
>Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2001 2:14 AM
>Subject: Re: sympathy
>
>
>> > From: Magdel Purcock <MPurcock@autopage.co.za>
>> [ a message with an attachment ]
>>
>> These might be somewhat extreme times, but that does not mean that
>> attachments or messages in pure HTML are acceptable on this list.
>> Most software and services support at least posting in plain text as
>> well (and if not, you can always get a free account somewhere that
>> does) and none requires the sending of an attachment.  Thanks for your
>> consideration everyone!
>>
>> Donal.
>>

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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 21:46:35 +1000
From: Paul Sharrock <niko@sunet.com.au>
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Forwarded from an Urban Legend Mailing list.

--

I just added a page about this to our site. It's at
http://www.snopes.com/inboxer/hoaxes/predict.htm

In a nutshell, the Nostradamus "prophecy" is a fake. A Canadian
university student wrote that quatrain a few years ago as an example
of how the seer used vague imagery to concoct his predictions. The
tail line about "the third big war" was added by someone else, likely
someone who found the Canadian university student's web page and
mistook his illustrative example for a Nostradamus quatrain.
People are trying to make sense of things at this point in time, so
folks are out there searching for predictions about what will happen
next.

Barbara "mystic pizza" Mikkelson


--



Paul S.

---------------------------------------------------------------
"Throughout history it has been the inaction
of those who could have acted, the indifference
of those who should have known better, the
silence of the voice of justice when it mattered most,
that has made it possible for evil to triumph."
- Haile Selassie
---------------------------------------------------------------



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Subject: Re: Terrorist Activities....Nostradamus
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 13:30:18 +0100
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*** EOOH ***
From: richard.smith@pharma.novartis.com
Subject: Re: Terrorist Activities....Nostradamus
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 13:30:18 +0100
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu




>In the City of God there will be a great thunder, Two brothers torn apart by
>Chaos, while the fortress endures, the great leader will succumb" , "The
>third big war will begin when the big city is burning"
>- Nostradamus 1654

According to this website this quote is not by Nostradamus.

http://www.nostradamus-repository.org/cityofgod.html

also the date seems a bit out. I do believe he had passed away by then.

Anyone shed any light on this?

Rich



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Subject: RE: My Condolences
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From: "Michael Gibson" <gibbyfish@yahoo.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: My Condolences
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 14:01:36 +0100
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> On Behalf Of Donal K. Fellows
> > Shawn Chung <shawnc@cyberway.com.sg>
> > What happened in New York on the 11th of September, 2001 will be
> > recorded in world history as the most heinous, murderous single act
> > of terrorism ever.
>
> I sincerely hope so; something as bad again (or worse) is too horrible
> to contemplate.

I share your hopes, but I fear such acts of inhumanity will become more
frequently attempted.  (Not on part of any soothsaying, but because the idea of
legitimate targets and practices appears to shifting for some "people".)

> > It must not go unpunished.
>
> And the punishment must take the form of not just dealing with the
> organization that carried out the attacks, but also as much as
> possible squelching the cause that that organization is fighting
> for[*].  I can't think of a better deterrent than the knowledge that
> such actions are guaranteed losing moves...
>
> Donal.
> [* Well, within reason.  Not to the point of losing our own humanity,
>    or the "cure" could end up worse than the "disease". ]

This is true, as we are past prevention, and there exists only retribution to
bring justice.  However, we must always remember the "plot" - far too many times
this has been forgotten (and continues to be forgotten).

Mike,
Gibfish of the West.
                                          Check out my forums at:
"To question is often intelligent.        http://www.tonrae.co.uk/forums/
To trust rightly is to be inspired."


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com



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From: Geir Thomassen Flognfeldt <gflognf@online.no>
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>I share your hopes, but I fear such acts of inhumanity will become
>more frequently attempted.  (Not on part of any soothsaying, but
>because the idea of legitimate targets and practices appears to
>shifting for some "people".)

Well, I fear we, literally speaking only see the top of the Iceberg in
this, as this kind of acts will follow. Again, that is what I fear.

>>> It must not go unpunished.
>>
>> And the punishment must take the form of not just dealing with the
>>organization that carried out the attacks, but also as much as
>>possible squelching the cause that that organization is fighting
>>for[*].  I can't think of a better deterrent than the knowledge that
>>such actions are guaranteed losing moves...
>>[* Well, within reason.  Not to the point of losing our own humanity,
>>or the "cure" could end up worse than the "disease". ]
> 
> This is true, as we are past prevention, and there exists only
>retribution to bring justice.  However, we must always remember the
>"plot" - far too many times this has been forgotten (and continues to
>be forgotten).

The problem with trying to squelch the cause is that it might create
martyrs, and thus refuse to be put out.

One of the people in Norway, Arthur Arntzen, once said that swearing
was much better than religion, because religion has started wars,
terrorist attacks and the likes of it, while swearing never
had. Judging from the last days, I feel he might be correct.

Geir

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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: Terrorist Activities....Nostradamus
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Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 14:22:36 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: Terrorist Activities....Nostradamus
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At 01:30 PM 9/12/01 +0100, richard.smith@pharma.novartis.com wrote:
>>- Nostradamus 1654

That isn't a date.  It is a quatrain number.  

Nostradamus wrote in quatrains (four line stanzas), and each one is
numbered.  

Not unlike the "K" numbers used to identify the works of Mozart.

rip



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Subject: Re: Terrorist Activities....Nostradamus
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Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: "Zavia Tiplady" <s354366@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Terrorist Activities....Nostradamus
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 23:22:00 +1000
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

> >In the City of God there will be a great thunder, Two brothers torn apart
> by
> >Chaos, while the fortress endures, the great leader will succumb" , "The
> >third big war will begin when the big city is burning"
> >- Nostradamus 1654
> 
> According to this website this quote is not by Nostradamus.
> 
> http://www.nostradamus-repository.org/cityofgod.html
> 
> also the date seems a bit out. I do believe he had passed away by then.
> 
> Anyone shed any light on this?

Check out http://www.snopes2.com/inboxer/hoaxes/predict.htm

& http://www.ed.brocku.ca/~nmarshal/nostradamus.htm

The first is a hoax website and the second is document in which the
quote first appeared. It was actually a paper on Nostradamus and 
the author of the paper made up the example to illustrate the
vagaries of Nostradamus's predicitons.

Zavia.






> 
> Rich
> 



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Subject: Re: OT World Trade Centre
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From: "James Barker" <heechee@softhome.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT World Trade Centre
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 23:33:24 +1000
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----- Original Message -----
From: LAR <lds627@home.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>; FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2001 5:58 PM
Subject: Re: OT World Trade Centre


First of all, don't anyone get me wrong on anything I say here; I feel
nothing but grief and sympathy for any affected by the US terrorist attacks,
and agree wholeheartedly that no one, repeat NO ONE, has any right to
perpetrate such an atrocity on anyone, regardless of what either side may
have done in the past.

>
> >
> >And it may never truly be an "American Empire," but rather that the US's
> >foreign policy will become imperial, but we might be able to persuade
> >allies and neutrals this is a good thing, and maybe the bullets won't fly.
> >
> >I don't know.
> >

I can't speak for others in my country, but it will be a very long time
before I am persuaded that any country adopting an Imperialist attitude is a
"good thing." While I agree that the US has the right to protect it's
citizens, the idea of any country (particularly one as large as America)
adopting an Imperialist stance on foreign affairs can surely lead to nothing
but trouble. However, a stronger American foreign policy could be a good
thing, so long as extreme care was taken not to let it get out of hand.

>
> The monroe doctrine has always been the guiding principal of american
> foreign policy. We can not afford to allow others to gain power in our
> sphere of influence (Before anybody says anything about american arrogance,
> I would point out China has had a similar policy for  hundreds of years.
> Thus SE Asia in it's current state). As we depend on Oil, as the WORLD
> depends on oil, that sphere by necessity must extend to the middle east as
> well.

But is the current state of South-East Asia something to quest for? While I
will not contest that South-East Asia has benefitted some in the shadow of
China, there have been definite cons as well.

Also, your logic regarding oil is flawed. Without offense: Australia
effectively depends on the United States and Britain (among others) for
continuing economic stability and quality of life, therefore said countries
are within our sphere of influence. So Australia cannot permit the United
States to "gain power." This is obviously untrue, ergo your logic is flawed.
I see your point, however.

On a final note, I want it understood that these comments are intended to be
offensive to NOBODY. In fact, the attacks in the US have had ramifications
even here. One of my friend's relatives is unaccounted for in the rubble
that was the WTC, as is a distant family friend. Not much, admittedly, but
it is considerable given I live in a country on the other side of the world
to the attacks.

My prayers go out to all affected, injured, and killed.

James



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Subject: Re: Terrorist Activities....Nostradamus
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From: "Brian Doucette" <bid@psouth.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Terrorist Activities....Nostradamus
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I heard somewhere, that particular quote was not by nostradamus but by
student showing how easy it was to make vague predictions. Not sure if this
is right, Im gona try and find where I read that.

----- Original Message -----
From: <richard.smith@pharma.novartis.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2001 8:30 AM
Subject: Re: Terrorist Activities....Nostradamus


>
>
>
> >In the City of God there will be a great thunder, Two brothers torn apart
> by
> >Chaos, while the fortress endures, the great leader will succumb" , "The
> >third big war will begin when the big city is burning"
> >- Nostradamus 1654
>
> According to this website this quote is not by Nostradamus.
>
> http://www.nostradamus-repository.org/cityofgod.html
>
> also the date seems a bit out. I do believe he had passed away by then.
>
> Anyone shed any light on this?
>
> Rich
>
>



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From: Larry Siegel <larry@psihawk.com>
Subject: *sighs* 24 hours later
In-Reply-To: <1996235.1000300496879.JavaMail.webmail1@wm-java3.fg.online
 .no>
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Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 09:37:39 -0400
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Larry Siegel <larry@psihawk.com>
Subject: *sighs* 24 hours later
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I have sat now... watching... reading... thinking of what to say.
I am not talking politics, or terrorism, just human thoughts.

I live less then 10 miles from the WTC. Thankfully, I am in NJ,
and not in NYC...

There are so many things you feel when something like this happens.
Shock. Disbelief. Fear.

Listening to the radio.. the music is stopped... and they report an explosion.
Having no television at work... one goes to cnn.com. But sees nothing yet.

You hear more info and you're asking if anyone else knows what's going on.

You get a phone call from a business associate who is looking at the WTC 
from his
office window. Telling you what is happening.

The radio gives a vivid description.. cnn posts pictures......
you hear of a second crash.... no longer an accident... that first plane
was an attack.

As the rest of the events unfold... you detach... you wonder... what next.

They stop all flights. They isolate Manhattan. All bridges/tunnels closed.
Schools close.  Offices send employees home. Malls close.
Then you hear of major roads closing.. the NJ Turnpike.. the Parkway... 
closing.

I sit and wonder now... Yesterday.... I was not sure, today I am still 
uncertain.
One of my best friend's father works in the WTC... thankfully he wasn't 
there yesterday.
My neighbor's Father and Sister... both go to work at the WTC... but go in 
at 10...
Both were spared.

As the day has passed, I hear of friends... co-workers who have family 
still unaccounted for.
For them I can only imagine their horror.

I sit... and listen... still... the continuous stream of fire... police... 
ambulances... rescue vehicles..
All passing by where I am, headed to NYC to assist.

So I will keep this as it started. My recount of the events... my feelings 
of fear as we waited for
the next attack. The next explosion. Wondering if it would be safe to go to 
work.

Listening now.. to them talk about other offices of my company that have 
been destroyed.

All I can say to those who feel this was just... or deserved.... I am sorry 
that your lives are so bitter,
that you can hear of children... and pregnant women ... and say that.

My sympathies to all who have lost someone, and to all in the area, who, 
like myself, may not directly
know someone who has died because of this, but has been affected nonetheless.




Larry

My Homepage
http://www.psihawk.com

Raymond E. Feist FAQ
http://www.psihawk.com/feist



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From: "C.T. Cusimano" <supert@redshift.com>
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Subject: heros?
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*** EOOH ***
From: "C.T. Cusimano" <supert@redshift.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: heros?
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 07:55:25 -0700
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and I want to know what thew fuck bruce willis and Harrison ford were up
to??
arent they suppose to stop this kinda shit??
thanks for the link to the post
I suppose afghanistan is gonna get it up the butt today if they dont give up
ladin today
if we start a jihad against terrorism a reverse jihad or something would
that be a good thing?



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Subject: Re: heros?
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Barker" <heechee@softhome.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: heros?
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 01:03:21 +1000
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----- Original Message -----
From: C.T. Cusimano <supert@redshift.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2001 12:55 AM
Subject: heros?


> and I want to know what thew fuck bruce willis and Harrison ford were up
> to??
> arent they suppose to stop this kinda shit??
> thanks for the link to the post
> I suppose afghanistan is gonna get it up the butt today if they dont give up
> ladin today
> if we start a jihad against terrorism a reverse jihad or something would
> that be a good thing?
>

Maybe you should just shut up and stop showing your ignorance? I'm not sure
whether you have noticed, but people are DEAD. You must never have lost
anyone close to you, or you would not be treating this so flippantly.

Cheers,
James



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Subject: Re: heros?
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*** EOOH ***
From: "C.T. Cusimano" <supert@redshift.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: heros?
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 08:09:01 -0700
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yeah your right I apologise.
I shouldnt be joking about this tragedy..  its jsut.. such a hollywood
script and I believe they have made movies about similar occurences
in fact there was probably one nameless hero yesterday aboard the plane that
crashed near pittsburgh someone disrupted its flight and forced it to crash
before it hit its target
my apologies again.
----- Original Message -----
From: "James Barker" <heechee@softhome.net>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2001 8:03 AM
Subject: Re: heros?


>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: C.T. Cusimano <supert@redshift.com>
> To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2001 12:55 AM
> Subject: heros?
>
>
> > and I want to know what thew fuck bruce willis and Harrison ford were up
> > to??
> > arent they suppose to stop this kinda shit??
> > thanks for the link to the post
> > I suppose afghanistan is gonna get it up the butt today if they dont give
> up
> > ladin today
> > if we start a jihad against terrorism a reverse jihad or something would
> > that be a good thing?
> >
>
> Maybe you should just shut up and stop showing your ignorance? I'm not sure
> whether you have noticed, but people are DEAD. You must never have lost
> anyone close to you, or you would not be treating this so flippantly.
>
> Cheers,
> James
>



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Subject: Re: heros?
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Barker" <heechee@softhome.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: heros?
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 01:22:54 +1000
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----- Original Message -----
From: C.T. Cusimano <supert@redshift.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2001 1:09 AM
Subject: Re: heros?


> yeah your right I apologise.
> I shouldnt be joking about this tragedy..  its jsut.. such a hollywood
> script and I believe they have made movies about similar occurences
> in fact there was probably one nameless hero yesterday aboard the plane that
> crashed near pittsburgh someone disrupted its flight and forced it to crash
> before it hit its target
> my apologies again.

Sheer conjecture, and a waste of your time and mine. If you know what caused
the plane to crash near Pittsburgh, please tell the FAA, I'm sure they'd be
very interested. Otherwise, stop treating this tragedy like a joke or a
movie.

James



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From: "Alvaro Santos" <weretraira@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re: OT World Trade Centre
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 12:22:44 -0300
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Subject: Re: OT World Trade Centre
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 12:22:44 -0300
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(snip)
>   There's a difference between terroristic attacks directed at civilians,
>and antiterroristic attacks at terroristic targets which, unfortunate but a
>fact of life because terrorists have a tendency to hide behind innocent
>people, result in civilian casualties.
>

(snip)

Please, explain to me the difference between innocent blood spilled and 
innocent blod spilled?

Those who kill civilians are murderers, cowards, and terrorists. No matter 
what side they are.

My condolences to all americans who died in this act of brutal terror, and 
for all who lost somebody loved. No one deserves to be touched by such 
dreadful pain.

God protect us all from all kind of terrorism. May He protect us from both 
terrorists and from those who fight fire with more fire.

Alvaro


"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away".
Philip K. Dick


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp



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From: Alex Loke <nerf@alphalink.com.au>
Subject: Re: heros?
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Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 01:26:29 +1000
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Alex Loke <nerf@alphalink.com.au>
Subject: Re: heros?
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Hi All,

At 07:55 AM 12/09/2001 -0700, you wrote:
>and I want to know what thew fuck bruce willis and Harrison ford were up
>to??
>arent they suppose to stop this kinda shit??

I truly hope one day that you can distinguish between fact and fiction.

>if we start a jihad against terrorism a reverse jihad or something would
>that be a good thing?

A 'Jihad' usually has closer religious implications, and is taken to
literally mean 'Holy War'.

Speaking of heroes, comments aside, the information that I'm getting seems
to indicate that the plane which crashed in Somerset County, Pennsylvania,
appears to have been crashed intentionally to prevent another incident.
Though I'm unsure whether we could ever verify this, it sounds like an act
that would take a hell of a lot of guts, even in a lose/lose situation.

Regards,

Alex Loke

 



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Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 16:27:58 +0100
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From: Andrea J Chee <andrea@bloodaxe.com>
Subject: Re: Terrorist Activities
References: <Pine.OSF.4.30.0109121354430.31680-100000@student.uq.edu.au>
 <3B9EDF23.B6AD8E16@home.com>
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Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 16:27:58 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Andrea J Chee <andrea@bloodaxe.com>
Subject: Re: Terrorist Activities
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In article <3B9EDF23.B6AD8E16@home.com>, Carl Dershem <dershem@home.com>
writes
>
>"Allah" is the arabic word for "God".  Or one of the many names of god.
>
In Islam, they worship the same God as that of the Christians and Jews.
They just call him by a different name.

As for Palestinian celebrations, I've heard a lot about these reports
from contacts in America, and it seems to me that it's the outcome of
the desire to make riveting television and stir up the call for
vengeance rather than to get things into perspective. Over here, we've
had the odd clip or one-line report on that sort of thing as part of
larger news reports and that's it. The reports mostly seem to originate
from the areas of greatest conflict like Gaza and the West Bank. The
impression that I'm getting is that extremists and fundamentalists are
the ones doing the dancing in the streets, not the population in
general.

- ANDREA

-- 
  Get PAID for the emails you already send and receive! 
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 08:38:29 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT Israel and Palestine (was Re: OT World Trade Centre)
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On Tuesday, September 11, 2001, at 11:12 PM, James_Turnbull@kaz.com.au 
wrote:

>
> Raymond Feist wrote:
>
>> Dressing a pig in a tutu doesn't make it a ballerina.
>
> But better than no tutu at all.  Which was my argument.
>
> Regards
>
> James Turnbull
> Sydney, Australia.
>
>


Which is, in turn, the point.  Just because there are window dressings 
of democracy doesn't make those nations democratic.  Egypt is probably, 
at the functional level, the most democratic nation over there and 
Mubaric is President for life, and the only guy they've had over there 
since Nasser who was trying to reform got assassinated.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 08:45:07 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Terrorist Activities....Nostradamus
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On Wednesday, September 12, 2001, at 05:30 AM, 
richard.smith@pharma.novartis.com wrote:

>
>
>
>> In the City of God there will be a great thunder, Two brothers torn 
>> apart
> by
>> Chaos, while the fortress endures, the great leader will succumb" , 
>> "The
>> third big war will begin when the big city is burning"
>> - Nostradamus 1654
>
> According to this website this quote is not by Nostradamus.
>
> http://www.nostradamus-repository.org/cityofgod.html
>
> also the date seems a bit out. I do believe he had passed away by then.
>
> Anyone shed any light on this?
>
> Rich
>
>

It's a hoax.  Check out the various hoax pages.

It was written by a Canadian student some years ago to show how easily a 
vague set of imagines could be constructed to look like something 
prophetic.  Then someone else added the line about the "Third" great war.

Best,R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 09:05:53 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
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On Wednesday, September 12, 2001, at 06:33 AM, James Barker wrote:

> [snip]

You ask a good question.

Here's my take on it, as if I have a freakin' clue about what the future 
holds.

China is not a good model, neither is Britain, or Spain.  Nor is Rome.  
All "Empires" are reflections of their core cultures.

China wanted client states, and more or less didn't give a fig if the 
people in Anam, Cochin, and Tonkin starved or prospered, so long as the 
goods required in China were delivered in timely fashion.  China was 
rarely a military imperialist but a hell of a trade imperialist, backed 
with soldiers.  That's one reason she was so vulnerable to the trade 
concessions wrung out of her by the Europeans and their gunboats.

Rome was pure military expansionism; move in, conquer the locals, give 
the land to retiring Roman legionaries.  Soon it's all "Rome."  Worked 
pretty well for nearly six centuries.

Britain was about trade as well, and "protecting the interest" of 
British subjects in areas where they did business, which was the excuse 
to size India and South Africa.

Spain just wanted gold, but in the process they also saved the heathens 
by converting them to Christianity.

In other words, all had an underlying "logic."

If there is to be an "American Empire," what would it be like?  IMHO, it 
will be what it could have been twice before in it's past, an exporter 
of revolution and democracy.   We were isolationists before World War I, 
and became that again after World War I because of Wilson's failure at 
Versailles  and social turmoil at home (labor riots, the Volstead Act, 
the rapid rise of the industrial giants, and then The Great 
Depression).  After World War II, we vowed never to isolationists again, 
but rather than compete with the Communists and export democratic 
revolution, we became reactionary and supported every tin pot strong arm 
dictator in a third world country as long as he shouted he was 
"Anti-communist."

This time around, we will probably export democracy. We will probably 
get tough with nations that are dictatorships and work hard to have them 
mend their ways, even I think to the point of funding rebels and helping 
to destabilize governments so that democratic opposition can take 
power.  Look to Afghanistan and Iraq as two very likely early targets.  
Look for some changes in the way we teal with more moderate states in 
the Middle East, like Egypt, to push them toward reform.  We may have to 
plunge into our own domestic oil reserves, but I think this act is going 
to polarize this nation.

Let me add one thing for perspective:  this is the worst attack on 
American soil in history.  This isn't just about the symbols of the 
Pentagon and the World Trade Center.  This isn't even about the insult 
to sovereignty.  It's about a blow that will profoundly change the 
GLOBAL economy as well as change America's view of her role in the 
world's security.

Thousands of people are dead.  The government won't even speculate on 
how many, but it is THOUSANDS.  More than the biggest earthquake to hit 
Central America or Japan or any other natural disaster you can remember.

Entire companies are gone.  By that I mean there were very influential 
companies with headquarters in the WTC, small but prosperous, that have 
lost EVERYBODY.   There's no one left to run them.  Large companies are 
going be mourning key personnel by the score.  Huge amounts of data are 
gone.  Hundreds of businesses, perhaps thousands, are coming to a 
standstill as they have to assess damage and figure out where they are.  
You will see prices go up.  Some of you in Europe, Austrlia, Canada to 
name three areas impacted will see shortages or rises in the price of 
American goods shortly, because lots of companies are going to have to 
replace key people and raise prices to recover losses.  Entire segments 
of the American insurance industry are going to be close to bankruptcy 
or will shut down.

This isn't about bricks and glass in the streets littered with bodies. 
This is about life as we know it changing profoundly.

Things are never going to be the same, and if there's any good to come 
out of this, what I hope is that when my children are my age there are 
democratic governments in places like Afghanistan and Iraq and terrorism 
is that barbaric horror that was stamped out in their father's time.

Best, R.E.F.

----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 10:38:20 -0600
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
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Subject: Re: Terrorist Activities
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Andrea J Chee wrote:
> 
> In Islam, they worship the same God as that of the Christians and Jews.
> They just call him by a different name.

And they all kill each other in the name of their god :(

> The impression that I'm getting is that extremists and fundamentalists
> are the ones doing the dancing in the streets, not the population in
> general.

I don't have cable right now, but I've seen pictures on the net, and
talked to alot of friends, and when they say things such as the fact
that the Iraqis are dancing in the street, I'm sure that the people are
out in masses as the usually are when they're cheering over something
that's happened to us.
I've seen pictures of Palestenian soldiers cheering whilst their leaders
condemn the attack, as well.

Craig J. Ries



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Subject: Re: OT World Trade Centre
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From: "James Barker" <heechee@softhome.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT World Trade Centre
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 02:43:24 +1000
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----- Original Message -----
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2001 2:05 AM
Subject: Re: OT World Trade Centre


> Let me add one thing for perspective:  this is the worst attack on
> American soil in history.  This isn't just about the symbols of the
> Pentagon and the World Trade Center.  This isn't even about the insult
> to sovereignty.  It's about a blow that will profoundly change the
> GLOBAL economy as well as change America's view of her role in the
> world's security.

Agreed. And you'd be surprised how many people I have talked to who are
completely unaware of the magnitude of this: they think that America will
bomb some Middle-Eastern dictatorship back to the stone age, and life will
go on. When I pointed out to my friends that American has effectively never
suffered a foreign military attack (bar the occasional bombing, etc.) of
anything approaching this magnitude on mainland soil since the Revolutionary
War, most of them had absolutely no idea this was so. Of course, it may not
be so -- I might have missed something. And it is 2:40 in the morning, and I
have been awake for something approaching 50 hours...

>
> Thousands of people are dead.  The government won't even speculate on
> how many, but it is THOUSANDS.  More than the biggest earthquake to hit
> Central America or Japan or any other natural disaster you can remember.

Actually, I have to challenge that. The death toll in New York and
Washington will be, in a very bad case, no more than 40,000 - 50,000 people,
IIRC (which is still a mind-numbing, and incredibly horrendous amount).
Floods and mudslides in Peru (including some in recent years), for example,
have on occasion wiped out twice that number (again, if I recall correctly.
If not, accept my apologies).


> Entire companies are gone.  By that I mean there were very influential
> companies with headquarters in the WTC, small but prosperous, that have
> lost EVERYBODY.   There's no one left to run them.  Large companies are
> going be mourning key personnel by the score.  Huge amounts of data are
> gone.  Hundreds of businesses, perhaps thousands, are coming to a
> standstill as they have to assess damage and figure out where they are.
> You will see prices go up.  Some of you in Europe, Austrlia, Canada to
> name three areas impacted will see shortages or rises in the price of
> American goods shortly, because lots of companies are going to have to
> replace key people and raise prices to recover losses.  Entire segments
> of the American insurance industry are going to be close to bankruptcy
> or will shut down.

Hell, Australian companies had offices in the WTC, with at least one
high-level executive missing. While this is nothing compared to the carnage
of some of the other businesses based in the WTC, the point I make is that
we will definitely feel the economic pinch. And I would stake a very large
sum of money that petrol prices here (and there, and everywhere) are going
to skyrocket within the next 48 hours. And I mean _skyrocket_.

>
> This isn't about bricks and glass in the streets littered with bodies.
> This is about life as we know it changing profoundly.
>
> Things are never going to be the same, and if there's any good to come
> out of this, what I hope is that when my children are my age there are
> democratic governments in places like Afghanistan and Iraq and terrorism
> is that barbaric horror that was stamped out in their father's time.

Again, I agree, and I would never contest the need for terrorism to be
completely wiped out. I was merely stating my views on an "American Empire,"
and correcting some points in LAR's email.

James



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From: LAR <lds627@home.com>
Subject: Re Monroe Doctrine Was: OT World Trade Centre
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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu, FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: LAR <lds627@home.com>
Subject: Re Monroe Doctrine Was: OT World Trade Centre
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At 11:33 PM 9/12/01 +1000, James Barker wrote:

>I can't speak for others in my country, but it will be a very long time
>before I am persuaded that any country adopting an Imperialist attitude is a
>"good thing." While I agree that the US has the right to protect it's
>citizens, the idea of any country (particularly one as large as America)
>adopting an Imperialist stance on foreign affairs can surely lead to nothing
>but trouble. However, a stronger American foreign policy could be a good
>thing, so long as extreme care was taken not to let it get out of hand.
>


Or it could be a bad thing. I am not speaking to the value of it, I never 
felt that imperialism was nescessarily a positive thing. I just stated the 
inevitability of it.


> >
> > The monroe doctrine has always been the guiding principal of american
> > foreign policy. We can not afford to allow others to gain power in our
> > sphere of influence (Before anybody says anything about american
>arrogance,
> > I would point out China has had a similar policy for  hundreds of years.
> > Thus SE Asia in it's current state). As we depend on Oil, as the WORLD
> > depends on oil, that sphere by necessity must extend to the middle east as
> > well.
>
>But is the current state of South-East Asia something to quest for? While I
>will not contest that South-East Asia has benefitted some in the shadow of
>China, there have been definite cons as well.

Absolutely, just as their are definite cons to the ridiculous embargo we 
have had on Cuba for the last 30+ years.


>Also, your logic regarding oil is flawed. Without offense: Australia
>effectively depends on the United States and Britain (among others) for
>continuing economic stability and quality of life, therefore said countries
>are within our sphere of influence. So Australia cannot permit the United
>States to "gain power." This is obviously untrue, ergo your logic is flawed.
>I see your point, however.


Actually, that was NOT my logic.  Sphere of influence requires one other 
key factor. Power. If you have no power, either military or economic, you 
HAVE NO influence. As I said, I am not supporting an American Empire, just 
agree it may be inevitable and already in the works. While there will 
likely be a certain peaceful effect, I tend to agree with Lord Acton.

Larry

>On a final note, I want it understood that these comments are intended to be
>offensive to NOBODY. In fact, the attacks in the US have had ramifications
>even here. One of my friend's relatives is unaccounted for in the rubble
>that was the WTC, as is a distant family friend. Not much, admittedly, but
>it is considerable given I live in a country on the other side of the world
>to the attacks.
>
>My prayers go out to all affected, injured, and killed.
>
>James



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From: "Michael Gibson" <gibbyfish@yahoo.com>
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Subject: RE: OT World Trade Centre
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[snip]

> Let me add one thing for perspective:  this is the worst attack on
> American soil in history.  This isn't just about the symbols of the
> Pentagon and the World Trade Center.  This isn't even about the insult
> to sovereignty.  It's about a blow that will profoundly change the
> GLOBAL economy as well as change America's view of her role in the
> world's security.
>
> Thousands of people are dead.  The government won't even speculate on
> how many, but it is THOUSANDS.  More than the biggest earthquake to hit
> Central America or Japan or any other natural disaster you can remember.

Yep - there could well turn out to be more dead than as a result of the Gujarat
earthquake, and all down to mammals with legs, arms, heads etc., who call
themselves humans.

> Entire companies are gone.  By that I mean there were very influential
> companies with headquarters in the WTC, small but prosperous, that have
> lost EVERYBODY.   There's no one left to run them.  Large companies are
> going be mourning key personnel by the score.  Huge amounts of data are
> gone.  Hundreds of businesses, perhaps thousands, are coming to a
> standstill as they have to assess damage and figure out where they are.
> You will see prices go up.  Some of you in Europe, Austrlia, Canada to
> name three areas impacted will see shortages or rises in the price of
> American goods shortly, because lots of companies are going to have to
> replace key people and raise prices to recover losses.  Entire segments
> of the American insurance industry are going to be close to bankruptcy
> or will shut down.
>
> This isn't about bricks and glass in the streets littered with bodies.
> This is about life as we know it changing profoundly.

Aye - when I saw the towers go down, I thought "Fight Club", but WORSE, and
very, VERY real.  And the strikes were just about inflicting pain, carnage and
death, for NO other reason except to create suffering.

> Things are never going to be the same, and if there's any good to come
> out of this, what I hope is that when my children are my age there are
> democratic governments in places like Afghanistan and Iraq and terrorism
> is that barbaric horror that was stamped out in their father's time.

I very much share your hopes.  It may be that unpopular means must be used, but
the end is a good goal to aim for.  For example, if the Pennsylvania crash was
deliberate, to prevent Camp David from being struck, then I salute whoever did
it - whether they knew they were going to die, it took balls all the same.

Mike,
Gibfish of the West.
                                          Check out my forums at:
"To question is often intelligent.        http://www.tonrae.co.uk/forums/
To trust rightly is to be inspired."


_________________________________________________________
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Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 11:12:59 -0600
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT World Trade Centre
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James Barker wrote:
> 
> Hell, Australian companies had offices in the WTC, with at least one
> high-level executive missing.

Australia, Japan, other Asian countries as well.

> And I would stake a very large
> sum of money that petrol prices here (and there, and everywhere) are going
> to skyrocket within the next 48 hours. And I mean _skyrocket_.

Well, gas prices around the US were mostly below $2, but by midnight
last night, it had pushed to $5 in some places.
Atleast the US oil companies froze prices.

Craig J. Ries



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Subject: Re: OT World Trade Centre
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 12:19:18 -0700
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From: "C.T. Cusimano" <supert@redshift.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT World Trade Centre
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 12:19:18 -0700
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washington was burned down by the british in 1812
----- Original Message -----
From: "James Barker" <heechee@softhome.net>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2001 9:43 AM
Subject: Re: OT World Trade Centre


>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
> To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2001 2:05 AM
> Subject: Re: OT World Trade Centre
>
>
> > Let me add one thing for perspective:  this is the worst attack on
> > American soil in history.  This isn't just about the symbols of the
> > Pentagon and the World Trade Center.  This isn't even about the insult
> > to sovereignty.  It's about a blow that will profoundly change the
> > GLOBAL economy as well as change America's view of her role in the
> > world's security.
>
> Agreed. And you'd be surprised how many people I have talked to who are
> completely unaware of the magnitude of this: they think that America will
> bomb some Middle-Eastern dictatorship back to the stone age, and life will
> go on. When I pointed out to my friends that American has effectively never
> suffered a foreign military attack (bar the occasional bombing, etc.) of
> anything approaching this magnitude on mainland soil since the Revolutionary
> War, most of them had absolutely no idea this was so. Of course, it may not
> be so -- I might have missed something. And it is 2:40 in the morning, and I
> have been awake for something approaching 50 hours...
>
> >
> > Thousands of people are dead.  The government won't even speculate on
> > how many, but it is THOUSANDS.  More than the biggest earthquake to hit
> > Central America or Japan or any other natural disaster you can remember.
>
> Actually, I have to challenge that. The death toll in New York and
> Washington will be, in a very bad case, no more than 40,000 - 50,000 people,
> IIRC (which is still a mind-numbing, and incredibly horrendous amount).
> Floods and mudslides in Peru (including some in recent years), for example,
> have on occasion wiped out twice that number (again, if I recall correctly.
> If not, accept my apologies).
>
>
> > Entire companies are gone.  By that I mean there were very influential
> > companies with headquarters in the WTC, small but prosperous, that have
> > lost EVERYBODY.   There's no one left to run them.  Large companies are
> > going be mourning key personnel by the score.  Huge amounts of data are
> > gone.  Hundreds of businesses, perhaps thousands, are coming to a
> > standstill as they have to assess damage and figure out where they are.
> > You will see prices go up.  Some of you in Europe, Austrlia, Canada to
> > name three areas impacted will see shortages or rises in the price of
> > American goods shortly, because lots of companies are going to have to
> > replace key people and raise prices to recover losses.  Entire segments
> > of the American insurance industry are going to be close to bankruptcy
> > or will shut down.
>
> Hell, Australian companies had offices in the WTC, with at least one
> high-level executive missing. While this is nothing compared to the carnage
> of some of the other businesses based in the WTC, the point I make is that
> we will definitely feel the economic pinch. And I would stake a very large
> sum of money that petrol prices here (and there, and everywhere) are going
> to skyrocket within the next 48 hours. And I mean _skyrocket_.
>
> >
> > This isn't about bricks and glass in the streets littered with bodies.
> > This is about life as we know it changing profoundly.
> >
> > Things are never going to be the same, and if there's any good to come
> > out of this, what I hope is that when my children are my age there are
> > democratic governments in places like Afghanistan and Iraq and terrorism
> > is that barbaric horror that was stamped out in their father's time.
>
> Again, I agree, and I would never contest the need for terrorism to be
> completely wiped out. I was merely stating my views on an "American Empire,"
> and correcting some points in LAR's email.
>
> James
>



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Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 15:41:09 EDT
Subject: Re: OT World Trade Centre
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*** EOOH ***
From: Valheru89@aol.com
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 15:41:09 EDT
Subject: Re: OT World Trade Centre
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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In a message dated 9/11/2001 7:07:04 PM Pacific Daylight Time, 
karlsimonian@yahoo.com writes:


> What I am trying to say, is that this tragedy was
> long overdue. Yes, many lives were lost, yes it was a
> cowardly act, but think of what the US has done to the
> people that caused the terror. According to statistics
> USA, over 1.3 million people have been killed in
> American peace keeping operations in the past couple
> years. How do you think those people feel? How many of
> them had brothers killed in crossfire, or by the
> famous 'bombs over baghdad'? America hasn't fought a
> single war on its on soil since roughly the 1880's. I
> am probably just a cynical old bastard, but maybe this
> a hint to mind their own business? Maybe other
> countries could solve their own problems. I still
> sympathize with those involved, but I also feel like
> it was unevitable. Thankyou if you did read this whole
> msg, and please don't flame me or worse, these are
> 

       That's pretty damn sad you think that way I am sorry but you are a 
cynical old bastard. You have some guts to come out and say things like that. 
How do you know people on this list didn't lose family members in this 
devastation? I hope people do "Flame you." I would love to meet you and just 
knock the shit out of you. Many of the people in my school had family members 
or friends in the Pentagon. I never thought I would see such fear on people's 
faces. I was scared because I live in Fredrick 2 miles away from fort 
Detracts (sorry if my spelling is wrong). Just the thought of what happend 
makes me want to cry. I find it despicable that you would say such a thing!

       For those of you who might have known someone who was killed in this 
devastation I feal very sorry for you!

               -Chance-

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From: Paavo Kakko <joeru@mbnet.fi>
Subject: Re: OT World Trade Centre
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Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 22:55:55 +0300
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Paavo Kakko <joeru@mbnet.fi>
Subject: Re: OT World Trade Centre
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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At 12:22 12.9.2001 -0300, you wrote:
>(snip)
>>   There's a difference between terroristic attacks directed at civilians,
>>and antiterroristic attacks at terroristic targets which, unfortunate but a
>>fact of life because terrorists have a tendency to hide behind innocent
>>people, result in civilian casualties.
>>
>
>(snip)
>
>Please, explain to me the difference between innocent blood spilled and 
>innocent blod spilled?

  No, no difference between the blood. And I wasn't claiming that, and I'm
not saying I want to see civilians killed. But I do think that the people
who executed this strike,
hide behind civilians and will continue to strike if not stopped, maybe not
in the near future, but they will continue.
  The only way terrorism can result in a win-lose situation, is if the
striked side will do nothing but submit, and in this scenario the
terrorists win, and only innocent blood is shed.
  The best way for things to go from now on is the people behind these
attacks being identified and the country they are in to extradite them.
This is what I truly hope, but I fear it won't happen, especially if the
person behind these attacks is Osama bin Laden.
  But what choices are left? Bush has declared it to be an act of war, and
has already appealed to an article of NATO that a strike against a member
of NATO, is a strike against all of NATO.
  USA considers these terroristic strikes acts of war. Bush has declared
that he will use whatever power needed to strike against the people behind
the strikes, I'm not a military expert, so I won't go into how.
  But the only obvious outcomes to me in this are the following:
 a) USA doesn't do anything  -- I fail to believe in that, but this means
that the people behind these strikes can continue planning them, more
civilian casualties
 b) The terrorists are extradited -- there is a chance of this happening,
if in some cases slight
 c) The terrorists aren't extradited, USA strikes back in vengeance, if
they find out the people behind the strikes -- casualties, a lot of them,
both soldiers and civilians
 d) The terrorists aren't extradited, USA doesn't strike back in vengeance
because they can't find out the people behind the strikes, USA possibly
isolates again, actively using its intelligence services in cooperation
with those of France, Germany and Great Britain -- terroristic strikes
continue, more civilian casualties

 The catch is ... will you consider striking at the terrorists, which will
almost inevitably result in civilian casualties, inferior or superior to
the possibility of the terrorists being able to continue their strikes,
without doubt resulting in civilian casualties?

>Those who kill civilians are murderers, cowards, and terrorists. No matter 
>what side they are.

  So should one take the risk of killing more civilians with strikes at the
terrorists or just turn one's cheek? 
  I have to admit I doubt I would have the self-control to go with the latter.

>My condolences to all americans who died in this act of brutal terror, and 
>for all who lost somebody loved. No one deserves to be touched by such 
>dreadful pain.
>
>God protect us all from all kind of terrorism. May He protect us from both 
>terrorists and from those who fight fire with more fire.

 On this I agree.

>Alvaro


 -- Paavo Kakko



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From: "Michael Gibson" <gibbyfish@yahoo.com>
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Subject: RE: OT World Trade Centre
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 21:31:23 +0100
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From: "Michael Gibson" <gibbyfish@yahoo.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: OT World Trade Centre
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<snip>

> >Those who kill civilians are murderers, cowards, and terrorists. No matter
> >what side they are.
>
> So should one take the risk of killing more civilians with strikes at the
> terrorists or just turn one's cheek?
> I have to admit I doubt I would have the self-control to go with the latter.

I feel we (I'm not from the US, but I feel this is a matter for the whole of
NATO) /must/ strike back.  Not because we're better than "them"*, or ours is the
divine way, but because we can only control OUR actions - if we leave the next
move to "them", then who knows how many will die next time "they" do this?

All that it takes for evil to succeed is for good people to do nothing.
(paraphrasing)

> >My condolences to all americans who died in this act of brutal terror, and
> >for all who lost somebody loved. No one deserves to be touched by such
> >dreadful pain.
> >
> >God protect us all from all kind of terrorism. May He protect us from both
> >terrorists and from those who fight fire with more fire.
>
> On this I agree.

This is true, but if we do not fight it, how much of the world will be engulfed
in flames?  The best we can do is to cut cleanly, so as little human flesh is
cut when we remove the cancers of society.  But we must cut very cleanly.

Mike,
Gibfish of the West.
                                          Check out my forums at:
"To question is often intelligent.        http://www.tonrae.co.uk/forums/
To trust rightly is to be inspired."


_________________________________________________________
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Subject: Re: OT World Trade Centre
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 17:50:47 -0300
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From: "Alvaro Santos" <weretraira@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re: OT World Trade Centre
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 17:50:47 -0300
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>   No, no difference between the blood. And I wasn't claiming that, and I'm
>not saying I want to see civilians killed. But I do think that the people
>who executed this strike,
>hide behind civilians and will continue to strike if not stopped, maybe not
>in the near future, but they will continue.
>   The only way terrorism can result in a win-lose situation, is if the
>striked side will do nothing but submit, and in this scenario the
>terrorists win, and only innocent blood is shed.
>   The best way for things to go from now on is the people behind these
>attacks being identified and the country they are in to extradite them.

I am 100% with you on that. You are absolutely right.

>This is what I truly hope, but I fear it won't happen, especially if the
>person behind these attacks is Osama bin Laden.

This guy is indeed very powerful, but nobody is invincible. I hope he will 
face justice *very* soon. But does somebody in the list know where did his 
power came from?

>   But what choices are left? Bush has declared it to be an act of war, and
>has already appealed to an article of NATO that a strike against a member
>of NATO, is a strike against all of NATO.
>   USA considers these terroristic strikes acts of war. Bush has declared
>that he will use whatever power needed to strike against the people behind
>the strikes, I'm not a military expert, so I won't go into how.

ThatŽs the problem. The worst about declaring war on terrorism is that is 
very hard to fight an enemy that you cant see. And I am not an expert, but 
BushŽs declaration sounds to me like USA is ready to fight back with force, 
what scares me. I have no fear of a "WW3",  but rather I am worried about 
more loss of any innocent lives.

Dont get me wrong, I am in no condition to argue about what is the best 
course of action to take, for that is not even my home who was attacked nor 
my friends who have died, so I wouldnt dare to say what one should do about 
it. But to say "bombing", "attacking" and "war" when the only targed visible 
is yourself ( I dont mean *you* ) is not the most wise choice someone could 
take, I guess.

I deeply hope that any monsters involved in this heinous act burn in hell 
and suffer bitter justice for every life, dream, love and hope this terrible 
attack took away.

>   But the only obvious outcomes to me in this are the following:
>  a) USA doesn't do anything  -- I fail to believe in that, but this means
>that the people behind these strikes can continue planning them, more
>civilian casualties
>  b) The terrorists are extradited -- there is a chance of this happening,
>if in some cases slight
>  c) The terrorists aren't extradited, USA strikes back in vengeance, if
>they find out the people behind the strikes -- casualties, a lot of them,
>both soldiers and civilians
>  d) The terrorists aren't extradited, USA doesn't strike back in vengeance
>because they can't find out the people behind the strikes, USA possibly
>isolates again, actively using its intelligence services in cooperation
>with those of France, Germany and Great Britain -- terroristic strikes
>continue, more civilian casualties
>
>  The catch is ... will you consider striking at the terrorists, which will
>almost inevitably result in civilian casualties, inferior or superior to
>the possibility of the terrorists being able to continue their strikes,
>without doubt resulting in civilian casualties?

As I said before, that is the hardest choice to make, if you attack, they 
will want to attack back, and so on, in a vicious circle until one of the 
sides is erradicated with lots of innocent lifes wasted until then. And if 
you dont, they will strike again just for the hell of it. I really dont know 
what I would do if I was Mr. Bush... If there was a possibility that I could 
make my country really safe from terrorist attacks for good, I guess that 
would be my choice, rather than pick up a very bloody fight. But I know that 
it is not a possibility.

>   So should one take the risk of killing more civilians with strikes at 
>the
>terrorists or just turn one's cheek?
>   I have to admit I doubt I would have the self-control to go with the 
>latter.
(...)
>
>  -- Paavo Kakko

Yeah, I see. No one would have that kind of self-control while see your 
people die. But whatever countermeasures are yet to come, I hope the best to 
come in order to keep people safe.

Alvaro
"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away".
Philip K. Dick




_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp



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Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 17:17:29 EDT
Subject: Re: *sighs* 24 hours later
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Going through the same thing as you are 10 miles away, and i am in 
Alabama...TV and radio going non-stop about this horrible tragity... malls 
closed, everyone running out to get gas, and security heightened in the 
nuclear power plants and arsenals.  They are asking for Blood donors, 
hundreds of people are coming to donate.  I am very proud of the US for 
coming together and getting through this tragity.  I hope that the people who 
did all of this is properly punished to the full extent; without more 
innocent people getting hurt. My heart goes out to everyone who has loved 
ones in the WTC....God Bless...


Jennifer Edmondson



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Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 14:40:31 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
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Subject: Moving on
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The need to vent and to share and to expound on feelings, frustrations, 
and disbelief is understandable.

But this list is primarily devoted to my work.

Knowing the lag time between a post like this and everyone getting on 
board, may I humbly suggest that we let this discussion of the events of 
9/11/01 subside and move back to more conventional discussions.

I figure it will be a day or two before the "ripple" of my request gets 
the desired effect.  My intent isn't to frustrate discussion, but rather 
to point out that everywhere we look now, this is what we're seeing, 
reaction to the events of yesterday.  I guess you could call this a plea 
to a return to some sense of normalcy.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Subject: RE: heroes?
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 14:47:59 -0700
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From: "Russell Teeter" <rteeter@sitelite.com>
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> 
> Speaking of heroes, comments aside, the information that I'm 
> getting seems
> to indicate that the plane which crashed in Somerset County, 
> Pennsylvania,
> appears to have been crashed intentionally to prevent another 
> incident.
> Though I'm unsure whether we could ever verify this, it 
> sounds like an act
> that would take a hell of a lot of guts, even in a lose/lose 
> situation.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Alex Loke
> 
>  
> 

Hello,

Probably the only way that they will be able to tell is if they can find
the little black box and see what was being recorded during the last few
minutes of the flight.  Make no mistakes, the government is going to
find every little clue pertaining to these incidents and go after every
lead.  Hopefully, innocent people are not implicated.

Russell Teeter

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Subject: OT World Trade Centre, can't agree with this more
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*** EOOH ***
From: Stuart Johnson <Stuart.Johnson@worldwidepackets.com>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" (FEISTFANS-L) <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: OT World Trade Centre, can't agree with this more
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 12:54:20 -0700
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this is like my 3rd post in 5 years, but i couldn't keep it to myself.
 
-stuart

This, from a Canadian newspaper, is worth sharing. 



America: The Good Neighbor. 

Widespread, but only partial news coverage was given recently to a
remarkable editorial broadcast from Toronto by Gordon Sinclair, a
Canadian television commentator. What follows is the full text of his
trenchant remarks as printed in the Congressional Record: 

"This Canadian thinks it is time to speak up for the Americans as the
most generous and possibly the least appreciated people on all the
earth.

Germany, Japan and, to a lesser extent, Britain and Italy were lifted
out of the debris of war by the Americans who poured in billions of
dollars and forgave other billions in debts. None of these countries is
today paying even the interest on its remaining debts to the United
States. 

When France was in danger of collapsing in 1956, it was the Americans
who propped it up, and their reward was to be insulted and swindled on
the streets of Paris. I was there. I saw it. When earthquakes hit
distant cities, it is the United States that hurries in to help. This
spring, 59 American communities were flattened by tornadoes. Nobody
helped. 

The Marshall Plan and the Truman Policy pumped billions of dollars
into discouraged countries. Now newspapers in those countries are
writing about the decadent, warmongering Americans. I'd like to see
just one of those countries that is gloating over the erosion of the
United States dollar build its own airplane. Does any other country in
the world have a plane to equal the Boeing Jumbo Jet, the Lockheed
Tri-Star, or the Douglas DC10?

If so, why don't they fly them? Why do all the International lines
except Russia fly American Planes? 

Why does no other land on earth even consider putting a man or woman
on the moon? You talk about Japanese technocracy, and you get radios.
You talk about German technocracy, and you get automobiles. You talk
about American technocracy, and you find men on the moon - not once, but
several times - and safely home again. 

You talk about scandals, and the Americans put theirs right in the
store window for everybody to look at. Even their draft-dodgers are not
pursued and hounded. They are here on our streets, and most of them,
unless they are breaking Canadian laws, are getting American dollars
from ma and pa at home to spend here. 

When the railways of France, Germany and India were breaking down
through age, it was the Americans who rebuilt them. When the
Pennsylvania Railroad and the New York Central went broke, nobody loaned
them an old caboose. Both are still broke. 

I can name you 5000 times when the Americans raced to the help of
other people in trouble. Can you name me even one time when someone else
raced to the Americans in trouble? I don't think there was outside help
even during the San Francisco earthquake. 

Our neighbors have faced it alone, and I'm one Canadian who is damned
tired of hearing them get kicked around. They will come out of this
thing with their flag high. And when they do, they are entitled to thumb
their nose at the lands that are gloating over their present troubles. I
hope Canada is not one of those." 

Stand proud, America! 

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Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 23:00:02 +0200
From: Erik Trulsson <ertr1013@student.uu.se>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Wed, Sep 12, 2001 at 09:05:53AM -0700, Raymond Feist wrote:


> 
> Thousands of people are dead.  The government won't even speculate on 
> how many, but it is THOUSANDS.  More than the biggest earthquake to hit 
> Central America or Japan or any other natural disaster you can remember.


Not true. 
The 1923 earthquake in Japan killed about 140,000 people.  
An earthquake in China back in 1556 killed 830,000 people.
In 1976 another earthquake hit China. The official numbers are about
250,000 dead but the real number is probably about double that.

There have been many other eartquakes throughout recorded history with
the number of dead counted in TENS of thousands.
In addition such earthquakes usually make much larger numbers of people
homeless.




-- 
<Insert your favourite quote here.>
Erik Trulsson
ertr1013@student.uu.se



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Subject: Re: OT World Trade Centre
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From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT World Trade Centre
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 17:31:46 -0500
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> > Thousands of people are dead.  The government won't even speculate on
> > how many, but it is THOUSANDS.  More than the biggest earthquake to hit
> > Central America or Japan or any other natural disaster you can remember.
>
> Actually, I have to challenge that. The death toll in New York and
> Washington will be, in a very bad case, no more than 40,000 - 50,000 people,
> IIRC (which is still a mind-numbing, and incredibly horrendous amount).
> Floods and mudslides in Peru (including some in recent years), for example,
> have on occasion wiped out twice that number (again, if I recall correctly.
> If not, accept my apologies).

I challenge back.  The trade center is home to 50,000 employees.
Plus the 150,000 daily tourists, many of which visit in the morning
hours.  Not counting those who may have been injured in the streets
which may be as many as 1,000,000 in the general vacinity (i.e.
lower manhatten) at the time, so an estimate of up to 10,000 may be
valid for people suffering from smoke/dust inhalation, debries
strikes, etc.  So all told (though this is not going to anywhere
near this high thankfully) we could have as many as 210,000 injured
in some manner or dead in NYC alone.  The pentagon holds 24,000 with
800 estimated injured or dead.  Over 250 people are confirmed dead
with the planes.  This could be worse I grant you, but even the
estimates of 10,000 fatalities still seems a serious realtity at
this time, and that is 10,000 too many for me.

The last major attack on US owned soil was the Bombing of pearl
harbor.  Those of you who have grand parents and relatives who were
of similar age to you now who remember that I sincearely suggest
talking to them about thier experiances.  My grandfather gave me
profound insites to the past and the presant.

While we are on the subject of damage economically, the foriegn
markets (refering to non US here) are all well down.  Oil and gold
are up.  430 companies are gone, in part or full.  Many of them
financial power houses (like Morgan Stanly Dean Witter) and most
insured by British Companies such as Llyods of London.  This will
destroy entire economies for the short term if things are not
carefully monitored.

As a side note I understand Tailand lost part of its emabasy which
worked from the WTC.

-James






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Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 16:21:54 -0600
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: bin Laden
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Alvaro Santos wrote:
> 
> But does somebody in the list know where did his power came from?

Osama bin Laden is an exiled Saudi, apparently the son of a millionaire,
to which he has inherited some of his father's fortune or something.

At any rate, the guy has money. I've heard one comment made about how we
gave him alot of his training when the Soviet Union was fighting in
Afghanistan years ago, and now he and others are turning that training
against us.

Craig J. Ries



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Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 16:26:30 -0600
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: feistfans-l@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: bin Laden
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"Craig J. Ries" wrote:
> 
> Alvaro Santos wrote:
> >
> > But does somebody in the list know where did his power came from?
> 
> Osama bin Laden is an exiled Saudi, apparently the son of a millionaire,
> to which he has inherited some of his father's fortune or something.
> 
> At any rate, the guy has money. I've heard one comment made about how we
> gave him alot of his training when the Soviet Union was fighting in
> Afghanistan years ago, and now he and others are turning that training
> against us.
> 
> Craig J. Ries

Further info on bin Laden can be found at this link:

http://www.cnn.com/2001/US/09/12/binladen.profile/index.html

Craig J. Ries



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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Andrea J Chee <andrea@bloodaxe.com>
Subject: Re: Terrorist Activities
References: <Pine.OSF.4.30.0109121354430.31680-100000@student.uq.edu.au>
 <3B9EDF23.B6AD8E16@home.com> <1m1jEED+73n7Ew5P@bloodaxe.demon.co.uk>
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Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 00:32:58 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Andrea J Chee <andrea@bloodaxe.com>
Subject: Re: Terrorist Activities
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In article <3B9F8F7C.9DE865EE@yifan.net>, Craig J. Ries
<cries@yifan.net> writes
>
>I don't have cable right now, but I've seen pictures on the net, and
>talked to alot of friends, and when they say things such as the fact
>that the Iraqis are dancing in the street, I'm sure that the people are
>out in masses as the usually are when they're cheering over something
>that's happened to us.

We're getting reports on it right now, and it's only been localised
extremists. In Palestine, they've been interviewing people on the street
who are just as traumatised as everyone else, and actual demonstrations
have been small enough that they're quickly broken up by police. Same
seems to be true elsewhere. In Afghanistan, where most of the people are
moderates under the heel of the Taliban, it's hard to tell what's
happening since it's nigh on impossible to film, but it looks like they
have uprisings rather than celebrations judging from reports of conflict
(at first it was even thought the US was attacking).

It's just that the extremists are very obvious. They're out on the
streets making a lot of noise. Everyone else is in the same state of
shock as the rest of the world, and keeping their heads down to stay out
of trouble.

- ANDREA

-- 
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*** EOOH ***
From: James_Turnbull@kaz.com.au
Subject: Re: bin Laden
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 09:57:57 +1000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Osama bin Laden is the son of a major construction mogul - who is worth
about 5 billion dollars.  Bin Laden's personal wealth is estimated at about
200 million US dollars.  At about 19 he left Saudi Arabia after some
unfortunate remarks about the Saudi Royal family that would have got him
killed.  They stripped him of his Saudi citizenship and he went to Pakistan
and there signed on with the Afghan resistance to fight the Russians.
During this time the CIA was sponsoring most of the action in that part of
the world.  CIA trained soldiers, gave weapons (most notriously a large
pile of Stinger missiles), and generally funded the resistance.  Bin Laden
was trained by the CIA and became a major player in the training and
distrubition of weapons.  As a fundamentalist Sunni Muslim he sought out
other 'disaffected' Muslim youths from a far afield as Malaysia and the
Balkan states to help fight and fund the resistance.  These became the core
of the terrorist group(s) that he now runs.  Bin Laden is an organiser and
co-ordinator.  I'll pretty much guarantee you that when the dust settles
you'll find he used members from a variety of different groups from all
over the world - Hamas, DFLP, PPLP, Ismalic Jihad, Mujid, etc, etc, etc -
to commit this act.

Regards

James Turnbull
Sydney, Australia

>
>
> 
>"Craig J. Ries" 
><cries@yifan.net>         To:     FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L) 
>Sent by:                  cc: 
>owner-FEISTFANS-L@c       Subject:     bin Laden 
>ornell.edu 
> 
> 
>13/09/2001 08:21 AM 
>Please respond to 
>FEISTFANS-L 
> 
> 



>
>Alvaro Santos wrote:
>>
>> But does somebody in the list know where did his power came from?
>
>Osama bin Laden is an exiled Saudi, apparently the son of a millionaire,
>to which he has inherited some of his father's fortune or something.
>
>At any rate, the guy has money. I've heard one comment made about how we
>gave him alot of his training when the Soviet Union was fighting in
>Afghanistan years ago, and now he and others are turning that training
>against us.
>
>Craig J. Ries

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Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 18:12:48 -0700
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From: Carl Dershem <dershem@home.com>
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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT World Trade Centre
References: <20010912064255.19097.qmail@web13007.mail.yahoo.com> <009b01c13b5b$06478e20$f1f6fea9@oemcomputer>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 18:12:48 -0700
From: Carl Dershem <dershem@home.com>
Organization: Project Selene
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT World Trade Centre
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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A Irving wrote:
> 
> I understand that people are beginning to blame Osami Bin Laden for the
> bombing. Some people say it is american groups. I don't know how accurate
> the Washington Post is but you might find this link interesting
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A13909-2001Sep11.html which
> tends to say that the US has information since the bombing saying it was the
> al Qaeda organisation.

Those who say it must be native groups, such as those that McVeigh
sympathised with, have apparently either not noticed or forgotten that
the larger groups are both thoroughly infiltrated by the FBI and
incredibly stupid - and the attacks on 9/11 were very well planned, very
well trained, and very well equipped.  This leaves out local terrorists.

What I've been able to glean from the various newswires and other
sources indicate that the descriptions of those who were able to call
from the hijacked planes (and who would have predicted that?) and other
sources all point to middle-eastern hijackers.  The amount of money,
organization and manpower needed to pull off this sort of an attack
argue for an organization very much like BinLaden's.  While definitive
proof that Bin Laden was behind the attacks has not yet been found, all
evidence points strongly at him, or someone VERY similar.  he is clearly
the front-runner at present, regardless of denials on his behalf.

cd



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 18:19:38 -0700
From: Carl Dershem <dershem@home.com>
Organization: Project Selene
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT World Trade Centre
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"Craig J. Ries" wrote:
> 
> Well, gas prices around the US were mostly below $2, but by midnight
> last night, it had pushed to $5 in some places.
> Atleast the US oil companies froze prices.

During WWII, there were severe penalties for "profiteering".  I hope to
see them dusted off and used.



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Subject: Re: OT World Trade Centre, can't agree with this more
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 19:01:05 -0700 (PDT)
From: Lore <lorebeef@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: OT World Trade Centre, can't agree with this more
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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	I can think of one country. France. Back when the
colonies revolted against Great Britain. France sent
supplies, and trained personal to the states to help.
I imagine there is others to be listed. But that is
one the hits my mind first off. Sorry about opening
old wounds those who are british. No hard feelings :)


=====
Lore         beefspit@hotmail.com.edu
           To E-mail me, drop the .edu thingy

         http://w3.cablespeed.com/~jonaitis/
Feist newsgroup Faq @ http://w3.cablespeed.com/~jonaitis/feist/

"I'm Mad, you're mad. We're all mad here."

__________________________________________________
Terrorist Attacks on U.S. - How can you help?
Donate cash, emergency relief information
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/fc/US/Emergency_Information/



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From: "greg batman" <pollux@swirve.com>
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Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 21:01:09 -0500
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*** EOOH ***
From: "greg batman" <pollux@swirve.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 21:01:09 -0500
Subject: Re: OT Israel and Palestine (was Re: OT World Trade Centre)
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> Which is, in turn, the point.  Just because there are window dressings 
> of democracy doesn't make those nations democratic.  Egypt is probably, 
> at the functional level, the most democratic nation over there and 
> Mubaric is President for life, and the only guy they've had over there 
> since Nasser who was trying to reform got assassinated.
> 
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
> 
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
> stupidity.

I think that the government in Turkey is democratic.  The big
difference there is that religion (dominated by Islam) has been
relegated to a second seat since the creation of the nation after WWI.
they seem to have their own brand of problems, but the fact that a
democratic government can exist inside of a Islamic state is there.  I
think Ray hit the nail on the head when he mentioned the relation
between democracy and Oil.  They have a crappy economy and a fair bit
of corruption, but both Egypt and Turkey are the lone standouts in a
region dominated by a completely different mentality.  
-- 

_______________________________________________
Get Free Email at Swirve.com, http://www.swirve.com



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From: "Mara Acoma" <acoma_acoma@hotmail.com>
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Subject: NEVER FEAR, CALVIN IS HERE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Yes I know I know, your lives have been empty without me!!!(sigh)
Please don't all rush to hug me!!(Well hug the screen with my E-mail)
I have noticed certain things going on in the world and they seem pritty 
fucked up. I suggest(Like Raymond did) We stop talking about it!
I would really like one place right now where I can just relax and not have 
to think about shit....you know?? I love this list and I am heart broken to 
see so many people upset about all that is going on!
Once most of you would be calling me a troll and all sorts, Telling me to 
get the HELL out of here!! Now most of you don't even notice me!!!
COME ON PEOPLE GET ME BOOTED!!!!!! YOU KNOW YOU WANT TO!!!
I don't have to go all sexist again, and talk about women in the kitchen, do 
I? that acts a bit old, but I'll do it if I have to!!!
Be cool
Calvin
x

And Remember

The early bird may get the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese!!

P.S

Why does the Bride always wear white?

Well, its nice to have the Dish Washer, match the fridge and the cooker 
isn't it!!!!

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp



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Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 19:25:16 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT Israel and Palestine (was Re: OT World Trade Centre)
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On Wednesday, September 12, 2001, at 07:01 PM, greg batman wrote:

>> Which is, in turn, the point.  Just because there are window dressings
>> of democracy doesn't make those nations democratic.  Egypt is probably,
>> at the functional level, the most democratic nation over there and
>> Mubaric is President for life, and the only guy they've had over there
>> since Nasser who was trying to reform got assassinated.
>>
>> Best, R.E.F.
>> ----
>>
>> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
>> stupidity.
>
> I think that the government in Turkey is democratic.  The big 
> difference there is that religion (dominated by Islam) has been 
> relegated to a second seat since the creation of the nation after WWI.  
> they seem to have their own brand of problems, but the fact that a 
> democratic government can exist inside of a Islamic state is there.  I 
> think Ray hit the nail on the head when he mentioned the relation 
> between democracy and Oil.  They have a crappy economy and a fair bit 
> of corruption, but both Egypt and Turkey are the lone standouts in a 
> region dominated by a completely different mentality.
> --
>
> _______________________________________________
> Get Free Email at Swirve.com, http://www.swirve.com
>
>

For the sake of argument, I don't consider Turkey a "Middle Eastern" 
nation.  While they are Islamic, and they border a lot of Middle Eastern 
Countries (hell, most of them were once part of the Ottoman Empire), 
they are members of Nato and not part of OPEC.  Politically, that means 
a huge difference.  In fact, given Nato just invoked Article 5 (attack 
one member you're attacking all) for the first time in history, it's a 
safe bet a whole lot of US planes will be flying out of Turkey if we do 
attack anyone in the region.

Best, R.E.F>
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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From: "Selina Takerei" <buny@optushome.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
References: <Pine.OSF.4.30.0109121354430.31680-100000@student.uq.edu.au> <3B9EDF23.B6AD8E16@home.com> <1m1jEED+73n7Ew5P@bloodaxe.demon.co.uk> <3B9F8F7C.9DE865EE@yifan.net>
Subject: Re: Terrorist Activities
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 12:35:17 +1000
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From: "Selina Takerei" <buny@optushome.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Terrorist Activities
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 12:35:17 +1000
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I am deeply saddened by the fact that anyone or anything with a soul could
do such a horrific act.
I am so saddened to say that yesterday morning, Melbourne airport was packed
with taxi drivers of Islamic decent, all holding signs and cheering.....
celebrating the fact that thousands of innocent people had been brutally,
cold heartedly and gutlessly murdered, only to come home to a phone call
from my brother who was also celebrating.

The only reason I tell you this is so that you also may come to realise the
insanity and the power of the insanity.

A few years back, my brother was selling memberships for Karate. He met a
lovely stunning girl whilst walkign the streets and knocking on doors.
Her name was Mervet. She was Lebanese Muslim.
They started seeing eachother and fell deeply in love. Her family found out
that she was seeing my brother, and he not being a follower of Islam, they
told her to stop seeing him, which of course, she refused.
My brother then started recieving death threats, I was being followed by her
friends and family and people they had hired to track down my brother. We
then found out that they had put somewhere between 5 and 10 thousand dollars
on my brothers head.
We payed for them ( being my brother, his new muslim wife and her 4 children
from a previous marriage) to move to Perth, then back to Melbourne, then to
Tasmania, then again back to Melbourne...

Whilst they were living in Tasmania, Mervet came back to see her mother as
she missed her family and was hoping that she may be able to work something
out with them so that she and my brother could be together happily.
Her own mother made her go to live with the very man who had put up the
money to get them killed.
This man found a letter in mervet's bag one day that had my brothers name on
it (luckily she hadnt yet put the mailing address on it). he proceeded to
beat and rape her.
He raped her 5 times, and beat her three times for each time he raped her.
Her mother told her it was her own fault and she deserved it.
Mervet got away and ran back to my brother.
They are now living in her parents house, how my brother managed to work
things out and get them to accept him, I will never know, but what I do know
is that my brother was a loving person before he converted to Islam and
moved in with those people.
He now hates Jew's, which he is of Jewish decent, and he is celebrating the
fact that thousands of women, children, men and elderly have been
slaughtered.

Sitting there lastnight listening to him and his sickening happiness made me
sadder than I can ever remember being.

And one thing I am convinced of is the fact that if we do go to war.... my
brother and I are going to be on opposing sides.

This horrific act has ripped at the hearts of people all over the world. To
think that anyone could even think of doing something like this, let alone
actually going through with it is one of the scariest realisations I have
ever had.

I don't know....... I'm stuck for words.
What can you say... I mean really........ I spent yesterday in tears,
yelling, shocked and amazed, horrified, disgusted, ashamed..... ashamed that
I am a human being.....

Humans are the only animals who kill just to make a point........... for
fun....

But does this act really shock you when you think about who did it ?

Think about it, in the Islamic social structure..... it is acceptable to
beat and rape your wife and children.... any woman for that matter.

Take that teenage girl a while back, who was raped and beaten, yet she was
the one punished with lashings for having sex before marriage......

Now if they can do this to their women, does it really surprise you that
they wouldn't have a conscience with killing thousands of innocents ?

Sorry I can't seem to think straight.
Thanks for listening...... well, reading...... I really had to get some of
that off my chest.

Sel.



----- Original Message -----
From: Craig J. Ries <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2001 2:38 AM
Subject: Re: Terrorist Activities


> Andrea J Chee wrote:
> >
> > In Islam, they worship the same God as that of the Christians and Jews.
> > They just call him by a different name.
>
> And they all kill each other in the name of their god :(
>
> > The impression that I'm getting is that extremists and fundamentalists
> > are the ones doing the dancing in the streets, not the population in
> > general.
>
> I don't have cable right now, but I've seen pictures on the net, and
> talked to alot of friends, and when they say things such as the fact
> that the Iraqis are dancing in the street, I'm sure that the people are
> out in masses as the usually are when they're cheering over something
> that's happened to us.
> I've seen pictures of Palestenian soldiers cheering whilst their leaders
> condemn the attack, as well.
>
> Craig J. Ries
>



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Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 20:27:04 -0600
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
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Subject: Re: OT World Trade Centre, can't agree with this more
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Lore wrote:
> 
>         I can think of one country. France. Back when the
> colonies revolted against Great Britain. France sent
> supplies, and trained personal to the states to help.

Aye, had somebody else bring that up as well in relation to the article
from Canada. That and the fact that there have been situations where we
were offered help and we declined.

Craig J. Ries



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Subject: Re: OT Israel and Palestine (was Re: OT World Trade Centre)
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From: "Chad" <feistfan@chadkeffer.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT Israel and Palestine (was Re: OT World Trade Centre)
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 22:30:05 -0500
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<snip>

>For the sake of argument, I don't consider Turkey a "Middle Eastern"
>nation.  While they are Islamic, and they border a lot of Middle Eastern
>Countries (hell, most of them were once part of the Ottoman Empire),
>they are members of Nato and not part of OPEC.  Politically, that means
>a huge difference.  In fact, given Nato just invoked Article 5 (attack
>one member you're attacking all) for the first time in history, it's a
>safe bet a whole lot of US planes will be flying out of Turkey if we do
>attack anyone in the region.

Not to mention we have at least two permanent military bases in Turkey
that have been there for decades.  I know Incirlik Air Base has a
tactical fighter wing and a reconnasance wing assigned to it.




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Subject: Re: Terrorist Activities
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Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 13:30:38 +1000 (GMT+1000)
From: Aaron Irving <s355156@student.uq.edu.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
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On Thu, 13 Sep 2001, Andrea J Chee wrote:
> It's just that the extremists are very obvious. They're out on the
> streets making a lot of noise. Everyone else is in the same state of
> shock as the rest of the world, and keeping their heads down to stay out
> of trouble.
>
> - ANDREA
The extremists and their children. It showed footage of children less than
10 years of age setting american flags on fire etc...
CIAO,
     Aaron

http://www.hallofworlds.net/kerr/main.php
http://www.nightshadow.co.uk



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From: Aaron Irving <s355156@student.uq.edu.au>
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Subject: Re: heros?
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Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 13:38:34 +1000 (GMT+1000)
From: Aaron Irving <s355156@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: heros?
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On Wed, 12 Sep 2001, C.T. Cusimano wrote:
> yeah your right I apologise.
> I shouldnt be joking about this tragedy..  its jsut.. such a hollywood
> script and I believe they have made movies about similar occurences
> in fact there was probably one nameless hero yesterday aboard the plane that
> crashed near pittsburgh someone disrupted its flight and forced it to crash
> before it hit its target
> my apologies again.
I heard the executive producer and writer of "Frasier" for the CNN network
was aboard the plane that crashed into the pentagon.



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From: "Jeff Weidemann" <jeff@pronto.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: OT World Trade Centre
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 13:11:36 +1000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Jeff Weidemann" <jeff@pronto.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: OT World Trade Centre
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 13:11:36 +1000
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true, but a human (and I use the term loosely), did not order the
earthquake!

-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Erik Trulsson
>Sent: Thursday, 13 September 2001 7:00 AM
>To: FEISTFANS-L
>Subject: Re: OT World Trade Centre
>
>
>On Wed, Sep 12, 2001 at 09:05:53AM -0700, Raymond Feist wrote:
>
>
>>
>> Thousands of people are dead.  The government won't even speculate on
>> how many, but it is THOUSANDS.  More than the biggest earthquake to hit
>> Central America or Japan or any other natural disaster you can remember.
>
>
>Not true.
>The 1923 earthquake in Japan killed about 140,000 people.
>An earthquake in China back in 1556 killed 830,000 people.
>In 1976 another earthquake hit China. The official numbers are about
>250,000 dead but the real number is probably about double that.
>
>There have been many other eartquakes throughout recorded history with
>the number of dead counted in TENS of thousands.
>In addition such earthquakes usually make much larger numbers of people
>homeless.
>
>
>
>
>--
><Insert your favourite quote here.>
>Erik Trulsson
>ertr1013@student.uu.se
>


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Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 18:22:30 -0700
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 18:22:30 -0700
From: Carl Dershem <dershem@home.com>
Organization: Project Selene
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT World Trade Centre
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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James Young wrote:
> 
> I challenge back.  The trade center is home to 50,000 employees.
> Plus the 150,000 daily tourists, many of which visit in the morning
> hours.  Not counting those who may have been injured in the streets
> which may be as many as 1,000,000 in the general vacinity (i.e.
> lower manhatten) at the time, so an estimate of up to 10,000 may be
> valid for people suffering from smoke/dust inhalation, debries
> strikes, etc.  So all told (though this is not going to anywhere
> near this high thankfully) we could have as many as 210,000 injured
> in some manner or dead in NYC alone.  The pentagon holds 24,000 with
> 800 estimated injured or dead.  Over 250 people are confirmed dead
> with the planes.  This could be worse I grant you, but even the
> estimates of 10,000 fatalities still seems a serious realtity at
> this time, and that is 10,000 too many for me.

If you just count those confirmed dead before the body count from the
WTC begins, you already have over 1500.  Then add in an easy 10% of
those who worked in the WTC (5,000), and you outstrip Pearl Harbor.  And
injured always at least triples dead in any attack.  This is a mess,
plain and simple.



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From: "C.T. Cusimano" <supert@redshift.com>
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References: <Pine.OSF.4.30.0109131337460.31499-100000@student.uq.edu.au>
Subject: Re: heros?
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 20:47:48 -0700
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*** EOOH ***
From: "C.T. Cusimano" <supert@redshift.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: heros?
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 20:47:48 -0700
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apparently one of the heros got a name
henry fritsch or soemthing
told his wife he loved her
to take care of their three month old baby
and saoid even though it woudl probably cost hsi life he was gonna fight
back against the terrorist in the plane and caused it to crash in
pennsylvania
----- Original Message -----
From: "Aaron Irving" <s355156@student.uq.edu.au>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2001 8:38 PM
Subject: Re: heros?


> On Wed, 12 Sep 2001, C.T. Cusimano wrote:
> > yeah your right I apologise.
> > I shouldnt be joking about this tragedy..  its jsut.. such a hollywood
> > script and I believe they have made movies about similar occurences
> > in fact there was probably one nameless hero yesterday aboard the plane that
> > crashed near pittsburgh someone disrupted its flight and forced it to crash
> > before it hit its target
> > my apologies again.
> I heard the executive producer and writer of "Frasier" for the CNN network
> was aboard the plane that crashed into the pentagon.
>



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From: Michael Holzer <epicmike@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: OT World Trade Centre, can't agree with this more
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 10:48:25 +0200 (CEST)
From: Michael Holzer <epicmike@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: OT World Trade Centre, can't agree with this more
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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As far as I know, Austria will send some trained
personal to the States too. Personal with dogs,
searching for the missing people. Hope they will find
as much as they can. 

 --- Lore <lorebeef@yahoo.com> schrieb: > 	I can think
of one country. France. Back when the
> colonies revolted against Great Britain. France sent
> supplies, and trained personal to the states to
> help.
> I imagine there is others to be listed. But that is
> one the hits my mind first off. Sorry about opening
> old wounds those who are british. No hard feelings
> :)
> 
> 
> ====> Lore         beefspit@hotmail.com.edu
>            To E-mail me, drop the .edu thingy
> 
>          http://w3.cablespeed.com/~jonaitis/
> Feist newsgroup Faq @
> http://w3.cablespeed.com/~jonaitis/feist/
> 
> "I'm Mad, you're mad. We're all mad here."
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Terrorist Attacks on U.S. - How can you help?
> Donate cash, emergency relief information
>
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/fc/US/Emergency_Information/
>  

====I feel a change...back to a better day...hair stands on the back of my neck...in wilderness is the preservation of the world...so seek the wolf in thyself!

__________________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Gesendet von Yahoo! Mail - http://mail.yahoo.de



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Subject: RE: OT Israel and Palestine (was Re: OT World Trade Centre)
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 09:57:18 +0100
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From: "Michael Gibson" <gibbyfish@yahoo.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: OT Israel and Palestine (was Re: OT World Trade Centre)
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 09:57:18 +0100
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> <snip>
>
> >For the sake of argument, I don't consider Turkey a "Middle Eastern"
> >nation.  While they are Islamic, and they border a lot of Middle
> Eastern
> >Countries (hell, most of them were once part of the Ottoman Empire),
> >they are members of Nato and not part of OPEC.  Politically, that
> means
> >a huge difference.  In fact, given Nato just invoked Article 5
> (attack
> >one member you're attacking all) for the first time in history, it's
> a
> >safe bet a whole lot of US planes will be flying out of Turkey if we
> do
> >attack anyone in the region.
>
> Not to mention we have at least two permanent military bases in Turkey
> that have been there for decades.  I know Incirlik Air Base has a
> tactical fighter wing and a reconnasance wing assigned to it.

And indeed the nukes that were stationed there (although I think they have since
been removed).

Mike,
Gibfish of the West.
                                          Check out my forums at:
"To question is often intelligent.        http://www.tonrae.co.uk/forums/
To trust rightly is to be inspired."


_________________________________________________________
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From: Rohan Smith <rsmith@free.net.nz>
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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT Israel and Palestine (was Re: OT World Trade Centre)
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so promoting a state that classifies nearly all it's arab citizens as 
second class and consistently punishes them for the acts of extremist 
terrorists. Is a good thing. Yes all Democratic countires should act 
like that.
Rohan who is annoyed by people making simplifications and the goes and 
does it himself

Raymond Feist wrote:

>
> On Tuesday, September 11, 2001, at 09:21 PM, James_Turnbull@kaz.com.au 
> wrote:
>
>>
>
>> As for democracy in Arab nations it is present, however broken and
>> distorted, in Egypt, Algeria, Jordan, Syria, and Lebanon.  I believe its
>> mere presence should be praised and encouraged.  Even Iran maintains 
>> some
>> democractic practices and the very courageous acts of journalists and
>> moderates in that country to promote those practices show great hope for
>> the future of this country and others.
>
>
> Syria?  Then we'll agree to disagree on the definition of 
> "democratic."  Last time I looked the Bath Party was about as 
> democratic as the Nazi's.   Lebanon was nearly destroyed because it 
> attempted to be a democratic state and is just now emerging from 
> Syrian domination and the near total devastation of the "Paris of the 
> Middle East."  Algeria, I'll concede, though it's North African, 
> rather than Middle Eastern in the common usage.  But Jordan and Egypt 
> are ruled by a select few, their "democracies" being limited to the 
> internal power elite of their ruling political parties, much as Mexico 
> was until reciently.
>
> "Democratic practices?"  Like what, shame "open" elections?  Letting 
> dissidents rot in prison rather than simply shooting them?
>
> Dressing a pig in a tutu doesn't make it a ballerina.
>
> Best, R.E.F.
>
> ----
>
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
> stupidity.
>
>




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From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
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Subject: Re: Terrorist Activities
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Is this really the appropriate place to reveal that kind of detail. While
I do sympathise with your story, I doubt it is representational of the
religion of islam.

Thanks,
Darragh.



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Subject: Re: OT World Trade Centre
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Subject: Re: OT World Trade Centre
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 07:52:58 -0300
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I really wish I had had more time to comment more thoroughly on this whole
issue, but I have been in school, and I sleep early.

Mr. Dershem, you are obviously very angry with this whole affair and would
like to see this thing resolved.  So do we all.  We also don't want to start
a premature war, on a nation that may not actually be responsible (if I
demonstrate at the G8* Summit, does that mean that every Canadian should be
arrested and interrogated, just because we are Canadians?)

I understand that there is a Canadian connection to all this, but let us not
go and burn our cities to the ground.  There could be many reasons for this
coincidence (they stole the plates for instance or bought them illegally).

Tell Mr. Fox to go pound sand is one thing, but wishing ill on anyone, in
such a time or peril and trial, is unsavory, and I hope that you will cease
to continue with such a verbal assault, on those who wish to speak their
peace.

Thank you and good day.

*-) Firesight *-)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Carl Dershem" <dershem@home.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 9:56 PM
Subject: Re: OT World Trade Centre


> Caleb Fox wrote:
> >
> > Hi. I am also deeply sorry for those americans invovled in the bombing
> > of WTO buildings and other associated activities. For those of you
> > that had a family member or friend hurt or killed in the incident,
> > maybe this isn't for you.
> >
> > What I am trying to say, is that this tradegy was long overdue. Yes
> > many lives were lost, yes it was a cowardly act, but think of what the
> > US has done to the people that caused the terror. According to
> > statistics USA, over 1.3 million people have been killed in American
> > peace keeping operations in the past couple years. How do you think
> > those people feel? How many of them had brothers killed in crossfire,
> > or by the famous 'bombs over baghdad'? America hasn't fought a single
> > war on its on soil since roughly the 1880's. I am probably just a
> > cynical old bastard, but maybe this a hint to mind their own business?
> > Maybe other countries could solve their own problems. I still
> > sympathize with those involved, but I also feel like it was
> > unevitable.
> >
> > Thankyou if you did read this whole msg, and please don't flame me or
> > worse, these are just my thoughts.
> >
> > Caleb
>
> This kind of bullshit does not deserve to be considered "thought".
> You're not cynical - you're just incredibly stupid.
>
> Flame?  Not even a hint of flame.  The US has done *nothing* to call in
> this kind of cowardly, heartless, mindless atrocity.  No one has.  Those
> who, even covertly, consider mass murder justificable (and especially
> those that link it to peacekeeping missions - who have obviously never
> considered the word, much less the missions it describes) will be
> considered as less than human by me.
>
> Fortunately, Mr. Fox has gone into my permanent killfile.  If a
> terrorist drops a building on him, he'll get no sympathy from me.
>
> cd
>
>



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Subject: Re: OT World Trade Centre
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If I might comment.

The United States is seen as  a world dominating power.  They seem to have a
thumb into every pie.  It is only natural, that some person, groups or
nations would have a problem with this.

In my cynical way, I see the US as the one who dictates to the United
Nations,and not the other way around.  Why should the laws of the US affect
me in any way?  they shouldn't, but because we live so close to them, our
government bows to the whims of the US government.

I personally don't feel that I would ever want to do harm to another, over
something so political, as policy or influence, but Tuesday was a clear
statement, that not everyone shares my sentiments.

Would be sad to find, that this was a group all by themselves, with little
financial backing, and determination as a goal.  Sadder still, if the
terrorists that died on those flights, are the only ones responsible.

Not likely, but probable.  Who would we blame, how might things play out
differently.  Too early to speculate, with too little to go on.

*-) Firesight *-)

----- Original Message -----
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 9:55 PM
Subject: Re: OT World Trade Centre


> Caleb Fox wrote:
> >
> > Maybe other countries could solve their own problems. I still
> > sympathize with those involved, but I also feel like it was
> > unevitable.
>
> We are the ones that put Israel together and have helped it stand over
> the last 50 years. We are the ones that put our hand in places like
> Afghanistan, in Iraq, and Iran. Now we have these countries lashing back
> at us, yet we are expected to sit back and let our buildings blown up?
> let our people be killed?
>
> I'll not sit back and say we've had clean hands the last 50 years, but
> nor will I sit back and accept this tragedy. There are other ways to
> deal with things than violence, but anything less than striking back is
> unacceptable.
>
> I have a good feeling that this is the last we're going to see of
> terrorist acts on American soil.
>
> Oh, and to continue, we're not the ones forcing the Israelies and the
> Palestenians to kill each other, we don't have soldiers killing off one
> side or the other.
> If you get shot at, you're going to shoot back. Plain and simple.
>
> Craig J. Ries
>
>



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From: "Wolfrider Firesight" <wolfriderfiresight@hotmail.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
References: <200109120133.f8C1XPR24426@smtp1.san.rr.com>
Subject: Re: OT World Trade Centre
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From: "Wolfrider Firesight" <wolfriderfiresight@hotmail.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT World Trade Centre
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 08:11:20 -0300
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Mr Feist,

I agree with you on  many of these points.

The Iunited States, IMO, stands as a symbol of power and control -of
themselves and the world around them.   Many nations would liek to see this
power crumble (probably for the same reasons you stated earler).  It is a
sad day, when such a feeling is countered with violence, on a cinematic
scale.

Personally, I am all for a unified global state, where the UN is the power,
and the rulers of *ALL* nations are acocuntable to it (and not the other way
around).

THinks would be so much easier, if we didn't have such a disjointed world in
which we live in.  So many different currencies, different laws, customs
(different customs is a good thing).  If instead it is all governed by one
set of laws, then we coudl see progress!

It wpould also make law enforcement on the Net much easier than it is
currently (that idea will scare some people).

We ca only hope, and "pray" that we see the lessons, on not the red haze of
hate, after the rumble dies, and the skies brighten over New York once more.

*-0 Firesight *-)
-"It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine."

----- Original Message -----
>From: Raymond Feist
>To: FEISTFANS-L
>Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 10:33 PM
>Subject: Re: OT World Trade Centre
>
>
>Caleb,
>
>You can't make statements that inflame and tell people not to flame you.
>
>Simply put, no one "deserves" to die because of US Policy in the Middle
>East. It's not "payback." People didn't die in Bagdad because the US hit
>military targets, they died because their nation is ruled by a murdering
>madman who invaded a neighboring country.
>
>If you want to understand the roots of this conflict, I can not more
>strongly urge you to get a copy of The Peace to End All Peace: The Fall of
>the Ottoman Empire and the Creation of the Modern Middle East. by David
>Fromkin.
>
>You'll understand so very much more about the absolute arbitrary and nearly
>capricious fashion in which "nations" were created out of districts of the
>Ottoman Empire by bureaucrats in White Hall and Paris.
>
>Arab terrorist hate the US for one reason only: without the US, Israel would
>not exist today. The arabs don't hate Israel because it's Jewish, they hate
>it because it's a democracy. They don't want their own oppressed people
>looking across borders and seeing a successful nation who elect their own
>leaders. These are nations of tribal people three generations removed from
>being nomadic goat herders and who are only significant to global politics
>because their nations sit on a vast reserve of oil. This is the reason we
>didn't go into Bagdad and remove Sadam, and put an opposition government in
>place, so that two years later there could be free elections. Because the
>very people we were "protecting" urged us not to do so. The ruling families
>of the area didn't want a democracy in Bagdad.
>
>And the people who killed tens of thousands today didn't do it to make those
>innocents killed by bombing Bagdad "feel better," they did it because
>terrorism is the tool of those who wish to destabilize, inflict terror, and
>distract.
>
>Big mistake.
>
>Jerry Pournelle told some of us today he thinks today will mark the end of
>the American Republic. He says we may now be seeing the dawn of the American
>Empire. He's of the opinion we will now start overthrowing some of these
>governments, starting with Afghanistan and put the rebels there into power
>and just tell the Russians and Chinese to back off.
>
>September 11, 2001 may be the day we look back upon and say was the day we
>realized we could no longer pretend we didn't live in a global community
>where we are all, ultimately, responsible for one another. "New World
>Order," was the term Bush (Sr.) used when the Berlin Wall fell and when the
>Soviet Union dissolved. I guess it's time to decide what that order will be.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>

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Subject: Re: Terrorist Activities
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From: "Selina Takerei" <buny@optushome.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Terrorist Activities
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 23:02:32 +1000
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you missed the point, but i take full blame for that as i wasnt thinking
clearly, therefor not making myself very clear for any of you.
anyway, as it has been requested that conversation is to go back to actual
list matters, all i will say is that im sorry i didn't make myself clearer,
and wont bother to go into what i actually meant.
if you care that much as to my meaning, then email me personally.

----- Original Message -----
From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2001 7:39 PM
Subject: Re: Terrorist Activities


>
> Is this really the appropriate place to reveal that kind of detail. While
> I do sympathise with your story, I doubt it is representational of the
> religion of islam.
>
> Thanks,
> Darragh.
>



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I finished HE last night, and I must admit I liked it. I'm never too
sure about books written in collaboration, though the Empire serie is
very good. Thus, I was reading that book with an neutral mind. It
seems Ray managed to write another successful collaboration. The story
is simple, no "saving the world" plot, but the development of the
relationship between kingdom and tsurani soldiers is very interesting.
I still feel that it could have been even deeper, however it could
have affected the balance between the story and the characters
development.

Very enterteaining story. Now, with the spoilers:

S

P

O

I

L

E

R

I know Ray will probably not answer that one, but is there any of you
who think Corwin could be the Crawler? There is mention in HE that he
is to be important for preparing a later kingdom invasion by the
Moredhel. What do you think?

PJ




Get 250 color business cards for FREE!
http://businesscards.lycos.com/vp/fastpath/



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From: "C.T. Cusimano" <supert@redshift.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: HE comments and SPOILERS
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 07:24:54 -0700
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Paddyjack [ ]" <erykel@lycos.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <feistfans-l@cornell.edu>
Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2001 6:10 AM
Subject: HE comments and SPOILERS


> I finished HE last night, and I must admit I liked it. I'm never too sure
>about books written in collaboration, though the Empire serie is very good.
>Thus, I was reading that book with an neutral mind. It seems Ray managed to
>write another successful collaboration. The story is simple, no "saving the
>world" plot, but the development of the relationship between kingdom and
>tsurani soldiers is very interesting. I still feel that it could have been
>even deeper, however it could have affected the balance between the story
>and the characters development.
>
> Very enterteaining story. Now, with the spoilers:
>
> S
>
> P
>
> O
>
> I
>
> L
>
> E
>
> R
>
> I know Ray will probably not answer that one, but is there any of you who
>think Corwin could be the Crawler? There is mention in HE that he is to be
>important for preparing a later kingdom invasion by the Moredhel. What do
>you think?
wow good thinking but sethanon was before  HE and Corwin is loyal to
murmandamus no sidhi could sidi be the crawler?  the crawlers men were
assasinating magicians and witches...
>
> PJ
>
>
>
>
> Get 250 color business cards for FREE!
> http://businesscards.lycos.com/vp/fastpath/
>



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To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: HE comments and SPOILERS
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 07:39:24 -0700
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----- Original Message -----
From: "C.T. Cusimano" <supert@redshift.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2001 7:24 AM
Subject: Re: HE comments and SPOILERS


>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Paddyjack [ ]" <erykel@lycos.com>
> To: "FEISTFANS-L" <feistfans-l@cornell.edu>
> Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2001 6:10 AM
> Subject: HE comments and SPOILERS
>
>
> > I finished HE last night, and I must admit I liked it. I'm never too sure
> about books written in collaboration, though the Empire serie is very good.
> Thus, I was reading that book with an neutral mind. It seems Ray managed to
> write another successful collaboration. The story is simple, no "saving the
> world" plot, but the development of the relationship between kingdom and
> tsurani soldiers is very interesting. I still feel that it could have been
> even deeper, however it could have affected the balance between the story
> and the characters development.
> >
> > Very enterteaining story. Now, with the spoilers:
> >
> > S
> >
> > P
> >
> > O
> >
> > I
> >
> > L
> >
> > E
> >
> > R
> >
> > I know Ray will probably not answer that one, but is there any of you who
> think Corwin could be the Crawler? There is mention in HE that he is to be
> important for preparing a later kingdom invasion by the Moredhel. What do
> you think?
> wow good thinking but krondow tear of the gods was far after sethanon and Corwin is loyal to
> murmandamus not sidhi could sidi be the crawler?  the crawlers men were
> assasinating magicians and witches...
sorry bout the last one brain still waking up its early here> >
> > PJ
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Get 250 color business cards for FREE!
> > http://businesscards.lycos.com/vp/fastpath/
> >
>



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Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 12:52:23 +1000
From: "Jason Mulligan" <sulimo@bigpond.net.au>
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On 13/09/2001 at 12:35 PM Selina Takerei wrote:

>I am deeply saddened by the fact that anyone or anything with a soul could
>do such a horrific act.
>I am so saddened to say that yesterday morning, Melbourne airport was
>packed
>with taxi drivers of Islamic decent, all holding signs and cheering.....

Did you actually see this? or was it just crazies on talkback?

Me, I feel sorry for all the reprisals that will take place on the innocent 
people of arab descent, and have already in Sydney (people trying to burn 
down mosques, etc).

e



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Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 10:04:26 +1000
From: "Jason Mulligan" <sulimo@bigpond.net.au>
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On 12/09/2001 at 2:42 PM Darragh Murray wrote:

>Though depressing, solving violence with violence seems to be the only
>rational solution. Does this say anything for human nature?

Yes, that Kubrick was right. Human beings are inherently violent creatures.




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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 08:22:01 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
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On Wednesday, September 12, 2001, at 07:27 PM, Craig J. Ries wrote:

> Lore wrote:
>>
>>         I can think of one country. France. Back when the
>> colonies revolted against Great Britain. France sent
>> supplies, and trained personal to the states to help.
>
> Aye, had somebody else bring that up as well in relation to the article
> from Canada. That and the fact that there have been situations where we
> were offered help and we declined.
>
> Craig J. Ries
>
>

You can always pick nits.  The fact is, usually, the US has the 
resources to handle things along and, well, we're "right there" in terms 
of being on the scene for our own domestic troubles.

But I take quite pride in American generosity.  That article was right 
in terms of a couple of things that I think are significant: we learned 
from the Treaty of Versailles.  Instead of punishing Germany and Japan, 
the US pumped billions of dollars into their economies and created 
healthy, productive societies.  It can be argued that we paid a price 
for a while as Japanese and Germans were beating our brains out 
economically in the late 1970's, early 1980's, but the simple fact is 
they weren't bombing their neighbors; we turned bitter enemies into good 
friend.

France and Great Britain still owe us billions from WWII and post war 
aid, but are we asking for a check?

One of the reasons, IMHO, the Soviet Union gave up being our enemy, I 
think, was the Armenian earthquake.  There were US rescue teams and US 
doctors all over the place and that showed up on Soviet News, and after 
a while a lot of Soviet citizens had to be saying, 'They can't be all 
that bad, can they?"

I was an anti-war supporter during Viet Nam.  I'll be among the first to 
say my nation screws up in a major way when it screws up.  But I also 
take great pride as an American when it does something generous.   And 
as an American it saddens me when otherwise educated people in friendly 
nations tent to focus exclusively on our faults (as if their own history 
is spotless) and ignore our virtues.

Best, R.E.F.

----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 08:36:48 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT Israel and Palestine (was Re: OT World Trade Centre)
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On Thursday, September 13, 2001, at 02:21 AM, Rohan Smith wrote:

> so promoting a state that classifies nearly all it's arab citizens as 
> second class and consistently punishes them for the acts of extremist 
> terrorists. Is a good thing. Yes all Democratic countires should act 
> like that.
> Rohan who is annoyed by people making simplifications and the goes and 
> does it himself

Yup.  "Nearly" all Israel's  Arab citizens have full protection under 
the law.  Wait, make that all.  Having known several native born Israel 
arabs, Suni Islamic, they often decry the violence over there on both 
sides.  But the fact is the people who are being treated as "second 
class" aren't citizens.  They tend to be Palastinian citizens who work 
in Isreal.  Along with Egyptians, Syrians, and Jordanians.  People often 
think of Isreal as a "fortress" but the fact is a lot of folks cross the 
borders every day to go to their jobs in Gaza, Jerusalem, and other 
places, and a lot of non-citizens are legal residents.  According to 
friends of mine over there, you should hear the complaining that goes on 
when something causes the authorities to close down the borders and 
their workers can't get to the job.

You want to talk about Israel's administration of Palastinian districts 
under their control, or Israel's own internal inability to deal with 
hard-liners who are opening settlements in the West Bank without 
government sanctions, sure, feel free.  But use the right brush when 
you're painting them black.  I have a lot of tolerance for a nation 
being hard-ass in dealing with people who think it's OK to blow up 
little kids in schools, maybe because I'm a daddy.  I suspect you'd feel 
pretty much the same way if you lived in a nation surrounded by people 
who have repeatedly said the only solution to your current difficulties 
was to obliterate your nation and drive you and every other citizen of 
your country into the sea.

Best, R.E.F.

----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.
>>
>>
>
>
>

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Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 08:41:29 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
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On Thursday, September 13, 2001, at 03:59 AM, Wolfrider Firesight wrote:

>
>
> Not likely, but probable.  Who would we blame, how might things play out
> differently.  Too early to speculate, with too little to go on.
>
>

Huh?  "Not likely, but probable."?  Not sure what you mean.

It's almost certain that this is the work of Osama bin Laden.  Several 
intelligence community types on the radio and TV put the probability in 
the +90% range.  What they don't know is if there's some state-sponsored 
terrorism in there, too, such as this being facilitated by Iraq, for 
instance.

You're talking about maybe 50 people in the air or on the ground being 
involved, and millions of dollars at their disposal. The fact they 
didn't spend it means nothing; they have resources.  There are rumors 
out the window, so I won't repeat them, but  car bombs and stinger 
missiles to shoot down AF1 have been mentioned.

We don't know all the facts, but we have a high degree of certainty this 
is what bin Laden promised three weeks ago, the big event that would 
shake the US.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 08:44:02 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
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On Thursday, September 13, 2001, at 06:10 AM, Paddyjack [ ] wrote:

> I finished HE last night, and I must admit I liked it. I'm never too 
> sure about books written in collaboration, though the Empire serie is 
> very good. Thus, I was reading that book with an neutral mind. It seems 
> Ray managed to write another successful collaboration. The story is 
> simple, no "saving the world" plot, but the development of the 
> relationship between kingdom and tsurani soldiers is very interesting. 
> I still feel that it could have been even deeper, however it could have 
> affected the balance between the story and the characters development.
>
> Very enterteaining story. Now, with the spoilers:
>
> S
>
> P
>
> O
>
> I
>
> L
>
> E
>
> R
>
> I know Ray will probably not answer that one, but is there any of you 
> who think Corwin could be the Crawler? There is mention in HE that he 
> is to be important for preparing a later kingdom invasion by the 
> Moredhel. What do you think?
>


No, Corwin isn't  the Crawler.  Corwin is dead by the end of A Darkness 
at Sethanon.  That was the big invasion we wrote about.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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From: Andrea J Chee <andrea@bloodaxe.com>
Subject: Re: Terrorist Activities
References: <Pine.OSF.4.30.0109121354430.31680-100000@student.uq.edu.au>
 <3B9EDF23.B6AD8E16@home.com> <1m1jEED+73n7Ew5P@bloodaxe.demon.co.uk>
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Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 17:11:52 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Andrea J Chee <andrea@bloodaxe.com>
Subject: Re: Terrorist Activities
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In article <200109131252230802.00A4D547@mail-hub>, Jason Mulligan
<sulimo@bigpond.net.au> writes

>Did you actually see this? or was it just crazies on talkback?

I've been reading the Herald Sun and can find nothing on this. The only
relevant article mentioning Melbourne has exactly the opposite:

http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5478,2859526%255E28
62,00.html

(You may need to reconstruct that URL.)

In other articles, there are reports of attacks on a mosque and the
stoning of a schoolbus containing Moslem children.

What frightens me is so many Americans of all cultures rushing to buy
guns:

http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_397678.html

- ANDREA

-- 
  Get PAID for the emails you already send and receive! 
http://www.mailround.com/  Referrer: andrea@bloodaxe.com
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From: Rohan Smith <rsmith@free.net.nz>
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Yeah I know there are problems all around. Like i said at the end i was 
making too much of a simplification of the situation. It just annoys me 
when Middle-Eastern countries are set up in the media or wherever as 
Arch-Villains where in most cases it is not so one-sided

 Later Rohan
Raymond Feist wrote:

>
> On Thursday, September 13, 2001, at 02:21 AM, Rohan Smith wrote:
>
>     so promoting a state that classifies nearly all it's arab citizens
>     as second class and consistently punishes them for the acts of
>     extremist terrorists. Is a good thing. Yes all Democratic
>     countires should act like that.
>     Rohan who is annoyed by people making simplifications and the goes
>     and does it himself
>
>
> Yup. "Nearly" all Israel's Arab citizens have full protection under 
> the law. Wait, make that all. Having known several native born Israel 
> arabs, Suni Islamic, they often decry the violence over there on both 
> sides. But the fact is the people who are being treated as "second 
> class" aren't citizens. They tend to be Palastinian citizens who work 
> in Isreal. Along with Egyptians, Syrians, and Jordanians. People often 
> think of Isreal as a "fortress" but the fact is a lot of folks cross 
> the borders every day to go to their jobs in Gaza, Jerusalem, and 
> other places, and a lot of non-citizens are legal residents. According 
> to friends of mine over there, you should hear the complaining that 
> goes on when something causes the authorities to close down the 
> borders and their workers can't get to the job.
>
> You want to talk about Israel's administration of Palastinian 
> districts under their control, or Israel's own internal inability to 
> deal with hard-liners who are opening settlements in the West Bank 
> without government sanctions, sure, feel free. But use the right brush 
> when you're painting them black. I have a lot of tolerance for a 
> nation being hard-ass in dealing with people who think it's OK to blow 
> up little kids in schools, maybe because I'm a daddy. I suspect you'd 
> feel pretty much the same way if you lived in a nation surrounded by 
> people who have repeatedly said the only solution to your current 
> difficulties was to obliterate your nation and drive you and every 
> other citizen of your country into the sea.
>
> Best, R.E.F.
>
> ----
>
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
> stupidity.
>
>
>
>
>
>




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>No, Corwin isn't  the Crawler.  Corwin is dead by the end of A Darkness 
>at Sethanon.  That was the big invasion we wrote about.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>----



ah ok, thanx for the clarification. :-)

PJ


Get 250 color business cards for FREE!
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Subject: Re: *sighs* 24 hours later
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 15:32:20 -0300
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Larry,

I mirror many of your thoughts.  It is so surreal, in the face of "everyday"
disasters (car accidents, plane crashes, fire etc).

It just seems too horrible to be real, it feels so cinematic.  Again we ask,
where are the terrorists, on the big screen, spewing out parts of their plot
for "world domination" or some such thing?  They don't exist in the really
world, and this kinda shit should never happen, outside a novel or movie.

I have a feeling, that this whole nightmare, will affect people's thoughts,
feelings, and art, for years to come.  Everything has changed, as we have
been awakened, from peaceful sleep, but the wail of the sirens.

Duck and cover...

*-| Firesight *-|

----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry Siegel" <larry@psihawk.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2001 10:37 AM
Subject: *sighs* 24 hours later


> I have sat now... watching... reading... thinking of what to say.
> I am not talking politics, or terrorism, just human thoughts.
>
> I live less then 10 miles from the WTC. Thankfully, I am in NJ,
> and not in NYC...
>
> There are so many things you feel when something like this happens.
> Shock. Disbelief. Fear.
>
> Listening to the radio.. the music is stopped... and they report an explosion.
> Having no television at work... one goes to cnn.com. But sees nothing yet.
>
> You hear more info and you're asking if anyone else knows what's going on.
>
> You get a phone call from a business associate who is looking at the WTC
> from his
> office window. Telling you what is happening.
>
> The radio gives a vivid description.. cnn posts pictures......
> you hear of a second crash.... no longer an accident... that first plane
> was an attack.
>
> As the rest of the events unfold... you detach... you wonder... what next.
>
> They stop all flights. They isolate Manhattan. All bridges/tunnels closed.
> Schools close.  Offices send employees home. Malls close.
> Then you hear of major roads closing.. the NJ Turnpike.. the Parkway...
> closing.
>
> I sit and wonder now... Yesterday.... I was not sure, today I am still
> uncertain.
> One of my best friend's father works in the WTC... thankfully he wasn't
> there yesterday.
> My neighbor's Father and Sister... both go to work at the WTC... but go in
> at 10...
> Both were spared.
>
> As the day has passed, I hear of friends... co-workers who have family
> still unaccounted for.
> For them I can only imagine their horror.
>
> I sit... and listen... still... the continuous stream of fire... police...
> ambulances... rescue vehicles..
> All passing by where I am, headed to NYC to assist.
>
> So I will keep this as it started. My recount of the events... my feelings
> of fear as we waited for
> the next attack. The next explosion. Wondering if it would be safe to go to
> work.
>
> Listening now.. to them talk about other offices of my company that have
> been destroyed.
>
> All I can say to those who feel this was just... or deserved.... I am sorry
> that your lives are so bitter,
> that you can hear of children... and pregnant women ... and say that.
>
> My sympathies to all who have lost someone, and to all in the area, who,
> like myself, may not directly
> know someone who has died because of this, but has been affected nonetheless.
>
>
>
>
> Larry
>
> My Homepage
> http://www.psihawk.com
>
> Raymond E. Feist FAQ
> http://www.psihawk.com/feist
>
>



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Subject: Re: OT World Trade Centre
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 16:08:30 -0300
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From: "Wolfrider Firesight" <wolfriderfiresight@hotmail.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT World Trade Centre
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 16:08:30 -0300
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Pavvo,

I feel that there is a fundamental problem is not addressing: how can you
stop terrorism, if it is rooted in religious fanaticism?

We talk and talk and talk, about wiping out terrorism, and destroying those
responsible (who happen to be terrorists).  Such, we want to end it, and
ensure that nobody can do this again and again.  However, can we really stop
a group of people so determined?

I think maybe we are ignoring the problem here: how do we change the ill
feelings that these people have towards the United States and possibly their
allies?

That is a multifaceted problem, that the US  and UN might have created
themselves.  We all want to see dictatorship end, but in the process, the
people seem to feel a "heavy hand" of American upon their backs.  Some have
decided that they want to do something about tit, and thus this highly
coordinated attack.

Killing civilians that are shielding terrorists, and then getting to them,
is not justified.  We need to be as smart and diabolical as they are.  This
way, we can infiltrate them, and pour the poison into the ri food when
nobody is looking.

By trying to swat all the mosquitoes in your home, you are going to miss
some, and they are gonna bring friends and procreate anyways, making one's
efforts in vain.

Terrorism holds a similar paralleled to democracy, in that people and things
get destroyed, but the ideas will live on, so long as there is somebody
there to remember and keep those ideas alive.

There are solutions to these problems, and they are not "quick fixes."
Education is one of them, and reparation is another.  We want to wipe out
communism and dictatorships, but so long as one person lives, and believes
that these concepts are right, then they will never die.

I am both a supporter of a global state, and a global currency (if I can't
have the monetary system disappear that is...).  Such a calculated attack,
with so very little, did so much to our world, it's people, it's economy.
We've woven a web so entangled, that  the breaking of a critical strand, has
brought the whole web into jeopardy.  It will take a long time for the
rebuilding and the healing.

As a people ,we are quite resilient and able to adapt to even the worst
situations.  However, we are inline for some hard times ahead of us, if the
economic world (which influences everything) cant' right itself soon.  We've
seen it in the gas prices, and we might soon see it in everything
aircraft-related (such as air mail and transportation).

In the end, it does come down to the people, and this latest world incident,
is another test of our character as human beings.  Maybe finally, we might
see some greater unity in eh world.  Maybe not.

*-0 Firesight *-)


----- Original Message -----
From: "Paavo Kakko" <joeru@mbnet.fi>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2001 4:55 PM
Subject: Re: OT World Trade Centre


> At 12:22 12.9.2001 -0300, you wrote:
> >(snip)
> >>   There's a difference between terroristic attacks directed at civilians,
> >>and antiterroristic attacks at terroristic targets which, unfortunate but a
> >>fact of life because terrorists have a tendency to hide behind innocent
> >>people, result in civilian casualties.
> >>
> >
> >(snip)
> >
> >Please, explain to me the difference between innocent blood spilled and
> >innocent blod spilled?
>
>   No, no difference between the blood. And I wasn't claiming that, and I'm
> not saying I want to see civilians killed. But I do think that the people
> who executed this strike,
> hide behind civilians and will continue to strike if not stopped, maybe not
> in the near future, but they will continue.
>   The only way terrorism can result in a win-lose situation, is if the
> striked side will do nothing but submit, and in this scenario the
> terrorists win, and only innocent blood is shed.
>   The best way for things to go from now on is the people behind these
> attacks being identified and the country they are in to extradite them.
> This is what I truly hope, but I fear it won't happen, especially if the
> person behind these attacks is Osama bin Laden.
>   But what choices are left? Bush has declared it to be an act of war, and
> has already appealed to an article of NATO that a strike against a member
> of NATO, is a strike against all of NATO.
>   USA considers these terroristic strikes acts of war. Bush has declared
> that he will use whatever power needed to strike against the people behind
> the strikes, I'm not a military expert, so I won't go into how.
>   But the only obvious outcomes to me in this are the following:
>  a) USA doesn't do anything  -- I fail to believe in that, but this means
> that the people behind these strikes can continue planning them, more
> civilian casualties
>  b) The terrorists are extradited -- there is a chance of this happening,
> if in some cases slight
>  c) The terrorists aren't extradited, USA strikes back in vengeance, if
> they find out the people behind the strikes -- casualties, a lot of them,
> both soldiers and civilians
>  d) The terrorists aren't extradited, USA doesn't strike back in vengeance
> because they can't find out the people behind the strikes, USA possibly
> isolates again, actively using its intelligence services in cooperation
> with those of France, Germany and Great Britain -- terroristic strikes
> continue, more civilian casualties
>
>  The catch is ... will you consider striking at the terrorists, which will
> almost inevitably result in civilian casualties, inferior or superior to
> the possibility of the terrorists being able to continue their strikes,
> without doubt resulting in civilian casualties?
>
> >Those who kill civilians are murderers, cowards, and terrorists. No matter
> >what side they are.
>
>   So should one take the risk of killing more civilians with strikes at the
> terrorists or just turn one's cheek?
>   I have to admit I doubt I would have the self-control to go with the latter.
>
> >My condolences to all americans who died in this act of brutal terror, and
> >for all who lost somebody loved. No one deserves to be touched by such
> >dreadful pain.
> >
> >God protect us all from all kind of terrorism. May He protect us from both
> >terrorists and from those who fight fire with more fire.
>
>  On this I agree.
>
> >Alvaro
>
>
>  -- Paavo Kakko
>
>



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Subject: Re: Moving on
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From: "Wolfrider Firesight" <wolfriderfiresight@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re: Moving on
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 16:13:29 -0300
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Mr Feist,

Finally getting to this email.

> a plea
> to a return to some sense of normalcy.

is: everything seems less important, in the light of this most recent of
tradgedies.

We get all concerned and upset over ONE airplane crash, but this was 4, and
they included 2 rather important buldings, with many deaths.

It's baffling.

However, I will resect your wishes, and discontinue discussion on this
matter from here on in.

*-) Firesight *-)



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Subject: Re: OT World Trade Centre
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 16:25:57 -0300
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From: "Wolfrider Firesight" <wolfriderfiresight@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re: OT World Trade Centre
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 16:25:57 -0300
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Fine.  I agree, that it was redundant and not a necessary statement -needed
some forethought.

You are most likely correct, that it is this Binladen character, that is the
source of this catastrophe.  We will see if it can be proved.

All the best to you, everyone else on the list, and to those giving and
receiving need.  Good day to you all.

*-) Firesight *-)

----- Original Message -----
From: "Raymond Feist" <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2001 12:41 PM
Subject: Re: OT World Trade Centre


>
> On Thursday, September 13, 2001, at 03:59 AM, Wolfrider Firesight wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Not likely, but probable.  Who would we blame, how might things play out
> > differently.  Too early to speculate, with too little to go on.
> >
> >
>
> Huh?  "Not likely, but probable."?  Not sure what you mean.
>
> It's almost certain that this is the work of Osama bin Laden.  Several
> intelligence community types on the radio and TV put the probability in
> the +90% range.  What they don't know is if there's some state-sponsored
> terrorism in there, too, such as this being facilitated by Iraq, for
> instance.
>
> You're talking about maybe 50 people in the air or on the ground being
> involved, and millions of dollars at their disposal. The fact they
> didn't spend it means nothing; they have resources.  There are rumors
> out the window, so I won't repeat them, but  car bombs and stinger
> missiles to shoot down AF1 have been mentioned.
>
> We don't know all the facts, but we have a high degree of certainty this
> is what bin Laden promised three weeks ago, the big event that would
> shake the US.
>
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
>
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
> stupidity.
>
>



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From: Valheru89@aol.com
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 16:01:22 EDT
Subject: Re: Moving on
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In a message dated 9/12/2001 2:53:39 PM Pacific Daylight Time, 
raymond@bittersea.com writes:


> 

No offence ray but that is kind of selfish at a time like this! But I will 
respect your wish's and end disscusion about this subject.

       Chance

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Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 23:15:42 +0300
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Paavo Kakko <joeru@mbnet.fi>
Subject: Re: OT World Trade Centre
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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At 16:08 13.9.2001 -0300, you wrote:
>Pavvo,

 It's Paavo. :)

>I feel that there is a fundamental problem is not addressing: how can you
>stop terrorism, if it is rooted in religious fanaticism?

 Sad as it is, I believe stopping terrorism is nigh impossible, more so
when it derives from religious fanaticism. Basically the way to stop the
terrorism from islamic sources would be to stop 'intruding on their
territory," as Koran doesn't allow attacking at people except when
attacked. Sadly, this would mean that all Israeli should abandon their
buildings and the .. blockade (used at lack of a better word in my
vocabulary) of Iraq should be stopped, I don't think this will happen, at
least not the first one.

>We talk and talk and talk, about wiping out terrorism, and destroying those
>responsible (who happen to be terrorists).  Such, we want to end it, and
>ensure that nobody can do this again and again.  However, can we really stop
>a group of people so determined?
>
>I think maybe we are ignoring the problem here: how do we change the ill
>feelings that these people have towards the United States and possibly their
>allies?

 Once again, I'm not claiming I am in any way an expert on the matter ..
but the amateur sociologist in me would like to think that helping to
develop countries in a way that doesn't offend their religious / cultural
habits, and to widen their cultural knowledge, would help .. *sighs* .. I
don't know.


 -- Paavo Kakko



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From: "Michael Gibson" <gibbyfish@yahoo.com>
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Subject: RE: Moving on
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 21:50:30 +0100
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From: "Michael Gibson" <gibbyfish@yahoo.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Moving on
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 21:50:30 +0100
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>> In a message dated 9/12/2001 2:53:39 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
>> raymond@bittersea.com writes:
>>
>> But this list is primarily devoted to my work
>
> No offence ray but that is kind of selfish at a time like this! But I will
> respect your wish's and end disscusion about this subject.
>
>     Chance

I'm not so sure it is - firstly, he said himself that he'd expect it to take a
day or two for people to get it out of their systems.  And I would guess talking
through this in "real life" is a better way of doing this than a mailing list.

Secondly, and more importantly, for a lot of people in the "developed" world
(for wont of a better phrase), this is the first major incident they have seen
in their part of the world, something they can directly relate to.  When this
happens, a number of facts hit home (as all of us here know), and people have to
come to terms with what they all mean.  An awful lot of people are left feeling
glum, and rightfully so - when Diana Spencer died, there was a 17% rise in UK
suicide rates, and now thousands of people have been killed.  We need to focus
more on normal aspects of life.

I know that for those directly involved, who have lost loved ones, friends,
colleagues etc., this ain't gonna happen - there is a definite mourning process,
made harder by uncertainty, which cannot be rushed.  In the past when I was
young, I tried this, and it causes you more pain.

But the rest of us can do our bit against terrorism - we can go out there, live
our lives as normally as we can, keep our economies stable, and make sure we do
not give in to hatred.

Mike,
Gibfish of the West.

"Better to light a candle than to curse the darkness."
Confucius.


_________________________________________________________
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 13:32:42 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Moving on
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On Thursday, September 13, 2001, at 01:01 PM, Valheru89@aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 9/12/2001 2:53:39 PM Pacific Daylight Time, 
> raymond@bittersea.com writes:
>
>
> But this list is primarily devoted to my work
>
>
>
> No offence ray but that is kind of selfish at a time like this! But I 
> will respect your wish's and end disscusion about this subject.

Then you miss the point.

I am not so vain as to need endless discussion of who Pug's parents are, 
rather I think everywhere you turn today, every venue is choked with 
this sort of debate.  To help with the healing and getting over the 
shock, some places need to return to normalcy as soon as possible, while 
other venues need to continue to provide a place to express outrage, 
fear, grief, and concern.

Best, R.E.F.

----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.

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From: "Theresa Roden" <lady_hoby@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re: OT World Trade Centre, can't agree with this more
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This has been around for a number of years, but it does bear repeating.

That said, I agree with Ray that it's time to take this off list.  Dwelling 
on it over and over and over again will only reinforce the bitterness and 
give the Terrorist the chance to claim victory.  As the Brits did during the 
bombing of London (one of my best friend's mom was part of the Home Guard at 
that time and he knows) the best revenge we can take is to go on about daily 
life as much as possible.  Part of the satifaction these people get is from 
the attention and disruption to normal life.

Theresa



>this is like my 3rd post in 5 years, but i couldn't keep it to myself.
>
>-stuart
>
>This, from a Canadian newspaper, is worth sharing.
>
>
>
>America: The Good Neighbor.
>
>

_________________________________________________________________
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From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
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Subject: Re: Terrorist Activities
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Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 07:33:44 +1000 (GMT+1000)
From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Terrorist Activities
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> >I am deeply saddened by the fact that anyone or anything with a soul could
> >do such a horrific act.
> >I am so saddened to say that yesterday morning, Melbourne airport was
> >packed
> >with taxi drivers of Islamic decent, all holding signs and cheering.....
>
> Did you actually see this? or was it just crazies on talkback?
>
> Me, I feel sorry for all the reprisals that will take place on the innocent
> people of arab descent, and have already in Sydney (people trying to burn
> down mosques, etc).
> e

A mosque in a suburb of my city, Brisbane, Australia, was firebombed last
night.

I'm thinking that _local_ anti-muslim activists are using the current US
situtation as an excuse to do violence.

Thanks
Darragh
-=-=
www.iamtheporkfireman.com
[Email]: s356179@student.uq.edu.au [ICQ]: 114283262



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Subject: Re: Moving on
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Subject: Re: Moving on
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Well Mr Feist,

What about this compromise:  how about list members (including yourself)
submit written pieces to this list, reflecting their thoughts and moods.  It
could be a short story, poetry, reflective piece, lymeric (within good
taste).  Even if it is not directly linked to recent events, the creative
process might be a good outlet for those who want a differnt way to release.

What say you, Mr. Feist?  It need not be long-lived, but it woudl satisfy
both yourself and those wishing to discuss this current events unfolding.
You submitting such workswoudl certainly lend to the compromise.

I am not currently willing ot write seomthing, as I cannot think of anything
at this time, but others might wish to use the creative proces,s to share
their thoughts, feelings and concerns -including you.

*-) Firesight *-)

----- Original Message -----
>From: Raymond Feist
>To: FEISTFANS-L
>Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2001 5:32 PM
>Subject: Re: Moving on
>
>
>On Thursday, September 13, 2001, at 01:01 PM, Valheru89@aol.com wrote:
>>
>>
>>In a message dated 9/12/2001 2:53:39 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
>>raymond@bittersea.com writes:
>>>
>>>
>>>But this list is primarily devoted to my work
>>>
>>>
>>
>>No offence ray but that is kind of selfish at a time like this! But I will
>>respect your wish's and end disscusion about this subject.
>>
>
>Then you miss the point.
>
>I am not so vain as to need endless discussion of who Pug's parents are,
>rather I think everywhere you turn today, every venue is choked with this
>sort of debate. To help with the healing and getting over the shock, some
>places need to return to normalcy as soon as possible, while other venues
>need to continue to provide a place to express outrage, fear, grief, and
>concern.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
>stupidity.
>


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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 15:38:32 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Moving on
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On Thursday, September 13, 2001, at 03:18 PM, Firesight wrote:

> Well Mr Feist,
>
> What about this compromise:  how about list members (including yourself)
> submit written pieces to this list, reflecting their thoughts and 
> moods.  It
> could be a short story, poetry, reflective piece, lymeric (within good
> taste).  Even if it is not directly linked to recent events, the 
> creative
> process might be a good outlet for those who want a differnt way to 
> release.
>
> What say you, Mr. Feist?  It need not be long-lived, but it woudl 
> satisfy
> both yourself and those wishing to discuss this current events 
> unfolding.
> You submitting such workswoudl certainly lend to the compromise.
>
> I am not currently willing ot write seomthing, as I cannot think of 
> anything
> at this time, but others might wish to use the creative proces,s to 
> share
> their thoughts, feelings and concerns -including you.
>
> *-) Firesight *-)

List members are free to post whatever they wish, subject to the list 
administrator's tolerance for digression.

I was merely making a request.

Feel free to ignore it should that be your desire.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Subject: Re: Moving on
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 23:48:51 +0100
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Paul Whitby" <pjwhitby@lineone.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Moving on
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 23:48:51 +0100
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never has Rays sig been more apapt.

Paul
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: Valheru89@aol.com 
>To: FEISTFANS-L 
>Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2001 9:01 PM
>Subject: Re: Moving on
>
>
>In a message dated 9/12/2001 2:53:39 PM Pacific Daylight Time, raymond@bittersea.com writes: 
>
>>
>>
>>  But this list is primarily devoted to my work
>>
>
>No offence ray but that is kind of selfish at a time like this! But I will respect your wish's and end disscusion about this subject. 
>
>      Chance 

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From: "Theresa Roden" <lady_hoby@hotmail.com>
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From: "Theresa Roden" <lady_hoby@hotmail.com>
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It is not selfish to ask that discussion of this topic be taken elsewhere.  
There are many forums available for such discussion available on the net.  
Speaking for my self only, I agree that we have discussed it enough.  To 
continually dwell on the tragedy is to pick at the scab of a wound so often 
as to make it impossible for the wound to heal.

America will pick itself up from this disaster, it will put things back 
together and go on.  One thing we can do in the interim is refuse to give 
the Terrorists the attention and fixation they are looking for.  Part of 
what they want to happen is to make us focus on this to the exclusion of all 
else.  It is part of how they justify themselves.  Treat them as the 
criminals they are, deal with them when the facts have named the responsible 
parties, but until then, let's go on with our own lives.

I, and several other friends, (military and non-military) have long 
suspected that something like this would happen someday.  So much attention 
has been paid to "high-tech" defenses against Terrorism (the "Star Wars" 
missile defense shield for example), that low-tech means of accomplishing 
the same ends have been ignored and/or brushed aside as "could never 
happen."  Unfortunately, it has happened and we must mourn our losses, find 
out who was responsible for the act, punish them, rebuild and get on with 
our lives.

Theresa

>In a message dated 9/12/2001 2:53:39 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
>raymond@bittersea.com writes:
>No offence ray but that is kind of selfish at a time like this! But I will
>respect your wish's and end disscusion about this subject.
>
>        Chance


_________________________________________________________________
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From: Valheru89@aol.com
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 19:01:25 EDT
Subject: Re: Moving on
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In a message dated 9/13/2001 3:04:26 PM Pacific Daylight Time, 
raymond@bittersea.com writes:


> Then you miss the point.
> 
> I am not so vain as to need endless discussion of who Pug's parents are, 
> rather I think everywhere you turn today, every venue is choked with 
> this sort of debate.  To help with the healing and getting over the 
> shock, some places need to return to normalcy as soon as possible, while 
> other venues need to continue to provide a place to express outrage, 
> fear, grief, and concern.
> 
> Best, R.E.F.
> 

Oh sorry Ray I misunderstood you.

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From: Valheru89@aol.com
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 19:04:06 EDT
Subject: Re: Moving on
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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In a message dated 9/13/2001 3:14:52 PM Pacific Daylight Time, 
gibbyfish@yahoo.com writes:


> I know that for those directly involved, who have lost loved ones, friends,
> colleagues etc., this ain't gonna happen - there is a definite mourning 
> process,
> made harder by uncertainty, which cannot be rushed.  In the past when I was
> young, I tried this, and it causes you more pain.
> 
> But the rest of us can do our bit against terrorism - we can go out there, 
> live
> our lives as normally as we can, keep our economies stable, and make sure 
> we do
> not give in to hatred.
> 
> Mike,
> Gibfish of the West.
> 

I understand now I had misunderstood Ray. I have had a family member lost who 
I never met and never will beacause of this disasture. I am gratefully sorry 
to irratate you.
Chance

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Subject: Re: Terrorist Activities
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Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 15:00:07 -0600
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Terrorist Activities
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Jason Mulligan wrote:
> 
> Me, I feel sorry for all the reprisals that will take place on the innocent
> people of arab descent, and have already in Sydney (people trying to burn
> down mosques, etc).

It's happening in the US as well, sadly.

Last night, Chicago police had to stop a mob of 300 from trying to burn
down a mosque.

Craig J. Ries



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From: Paul Sharrock <niko@sunet.com.au>
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My mail account is playing up so just in case the subject gets lost (which 
has being happening)  It should read.

Subject:  [OT]  WTC:  Israeli Intelligence says Iraq financed attacks.

I've being trying to stay out of this, there is more than enough traffic on 
the list already and there are probably countless lists set up to handle 
the discussions that everyone, and rightly so, feels that they must have.

Having said that...  This is a subject which has come up on a couple of the 
lists I'm on and someone posted this URL in reply to a question that 
someone asked.  It makes for Interesting reading.

http://www.worldtribune.com/worldtribune/breaking_1.html

It answers a lot of the questions that have being popping up...



Paul.  S.

"When great birds fall from the sky,
And the twins no longer stand,
Idiots will make up quotes from me,
And distribute them across the land."

Nostradamus 



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Subject: RE: Moving on
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Subject: RE: Moving on
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On Thu, 13 Sep 2001, Michael Gibson wrote:

<snip>

> But the rest of us can do our bit against terrorism - we can go out there, live
> our lives as normally as we can, keep our economies stable, and make sure we do
> not give in to hatred.

Or, if feel compelled to do something more 'tangible', enlist in your
nation's armed forces.

Not with intent to find retribution or 'get payback', but rather to stand
up and do what you can to prevent something like this from ever happening
again.

I'll go back to lurking now.
--------------------
Kendall Hildahl, one very frazzled Canadian.
khildahl@yahoo.com


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com



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From: paul@imagineering.net.au
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 11:12:05 +1000
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This is going out on a second account -this time-, I'll see if the subject 
stays intact this time around.  My apologies for having to send it out twice.

Paul
--

|
|My (main) mail account is playing up so just in case the subject gets lost 
|(which has being happening)  It should read.
|
|Subject:  [OT]  WTC:  Israeli Intelligence says Iraq financed attacks.
|
|I've being trying to stay out of this, there is more than enough traffic on 
|the list already and there are probably countless lists set up to handle 
|the discussions that everyone, and rightly so, feels that they must have.
|
|Having said that...  This is a subject which has come up on a couple of the 
|lists I'm on and someone posted this URL in reply to a question that 
|someone asked.  It makes for Interesting reading.
|
|http://www.worldtribune.com/worldtribune/breaking_1.html
|
|It answers a lot of the questions that have being popping up...
|
|
|
|Paul.  S.
|
|"When great birds fall from the sky,
|And the twins no longer stand,
|Idiots will make up quotes from me,
|And distribute them across the land."
|
|Nostradamus 
|
|

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From: paul@imagineering.net.au
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My mail account is playing up so just in case the subject gets lost (which 
has being happening)  It should read.

Subject:  [OT]  WTC:  Israeli Intelligence says Iraq financed attacks.

|I've being trying to stay out of this, there is more than enough traffic on 
|the list already and there are probably countless lists set up to handle 
|the discussions that everyone, and rightly so, feels that they must have.
|
|Having said that...  This is a subject which has come up on a couple of the 
|lists I'm on and someone posted this URL in reply to a question that 
|someone asked.  It makes for Interesting reading.
|
|http://www.worldtribune.com/worldtribune/breaking_1.html
|
|It answers a lot of the questions that have being popping up...
|
|
|
|Paul.  S.
|
|"When great birds fall from the sky,
|And the twins no longer stand,
|Idiots will make up quotes from me,
|And distribute them across the land."
|
|Nostradamus 
|
|

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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 11:12:20 +1000 (EST)
From: "A Irving" <s355156@student.uq.edu.au>
To: feistfans-l@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Terrorist Activities
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I should really watch the news more, I did not see it. Do you know where 
the Mosque was darragh? 
Responding To:    Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
Original Date:    Fri, 14 Sep 2001 07:33:44 +1000 (GMT+1000)
> 
> > >I am deeply saddened by the fact that anyone or anything with a soul 
> > could
> > >do such a horrific act.
> > >I am so saddened to say that yesterday morning, Melbourne airport was
> > >packed
> > >with taxi drivers of Islamic decent, all holding signs and 
> > cheering.....
> >
> > Did you actually see this? or was it just crazies on talkback?
> >
> > Me, I feel sorry for all the reprisals that will take place on the 
> > innocent
> > people of arab descent, and have already in Sydney (people trying to 
> > burn
> > down mosques, etc).
> > e
> 
> A mosque in a suburb of my city, Brisbane, Australia, was firebombed last
> night.
> 
> I'm thinking that _local_ anti-muslim activists are using the current US
> situtation as an excuse to do violence.
> 
> Thanks
> Darragh
> -=-=
> www.iamtheporkfireman.com
> [Email]: s356179@student.uq.edu.au [ICQ]: 114283262
> 




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From: Joel Davis <divinebear@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Moving on
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Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 18:37:16 -0700 (PDT)
From: Joel Davis <divinebear@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Moving on
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--- Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com> wrote:

> To help with the healing and
> getting over the 
> shock, some places need to return to normalcy as
> soon as possible, while 
> other venues need to continue to provide a place to
> express outrage, 
> fear, grief, and concern.

Amen, Mr. Feist.

As a writer, does working within the constraints of
the Midkemian history and background limit you in any
way?

If you hadn't worked with the Midkemia group, what
direction do you believe your work would have taken
ultimately? Would you have gravitated more or less
towards the more fantastic elements found in your
writings?

Has there been any negative aspects to using the
Midkemian background in your work?

And, more mundanely, have you tried the Brazilian
steak house in San Diego near the convention center?
:)
I'll have to assume it's still there because I haven't
been to the city since July of 2000.

That's what my wife and I miss most about not living
in Yuma, AZ, any more. We were spoiled with San Diego
(and Carlsbad and Julian) so close.

Best,

Joel Davis







=====
Do you grok?

__________________________________________________
Terrorist Attacks on U.S. - How can you help?
Donate cash, emergency relief information
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/fc/US/Emergency_Information/



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Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 20:16:26 -0700
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From: Ray Chiang <rchiang@pacbell.net>
Subject: Re: Moving on
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 20:16:26 -0700
From: Ray Chiang <rchiang@pacbell.net>
Subject: Re: Moving on
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

At 07:18 PM 9/13/2001 -0300, Firesight wrote:
 >
 >What about this compromise:  how about list members (including yourself)
 >submit written pieces to this list, reflecting their thoughts and moods.  It
 >could be a short story, poetry, reflective piece, lymeric (within good
 >taste).  Even if it is not directly linked to recent events, the creative
 >process might be a good outlet for those who want a differnt way to release.

There's a subtle point about Netiquette involved here.

If you wish to start a forum for these sorts of things,
feel free to open up a Yahoo! group or similar list and
mention *once* on this list to allow those who want to join.

Assuming that REF (or anyone else) has more to say on the
matter is a bit presumptious, especially considering how
much he's already posted about the subject.

For myself, I wouldn't mind seeing the thread about the
events of 9/11 end here, since I see and hear plenty through
the news, friends, coworkers, etc. on a daily basis.

-Ray



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Subject: [OT] Testing mail programs
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Paul Sharrock" <paul@imagineering.net.au>
To: <feistfans-l@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: [OT] Testing mail programs
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 15:01:20 +1000
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I'm trying to get my mail straightened out here.  People have probably
realized something weird is happening by now.

Unfortunately it's mainly list mail which is driving me crazy so I may have
to send several messages to mailing lists while I try to get it all
straightened out.  My apologies -in advance- if I have to send multiple
messages to the list to sort this mess out.

Just in case people haven't worked out what's happening with me my mailing
program (Eudora) suddenly decided to start stripping headers.  To lines are
going missing, subjects are going missing as well, with some messages the
headers are being stripped altogether.  That's incoming and outgoing mail.

This was sent with Outlook Express (which I haven't used for about four
years) so I'll see if this gets through intact.  If it doesn't I'll try with
some more mailing programs while I sort it all out.

Can someone send me a link or two (or just instructions will do) OFF LIST if
possible about how to use this beast of a thing..  I'm not used to Outlook
Express anymore and I'm getting lost with some it.

Paul S.



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From: "Jason Martin" <res0b95g@verizon.net>
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Subject: HE Enemy Question SPOILERS...
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 22:09:55 -0700
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Jason Martin" <res0b95g@verizon.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: HE Enemy Question SPOILERS...
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 22:09:55 -0700
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S
P
O
I
L
E
R

S
P
A
C
E


    Ok, Great book for starters and I can not wait till the next one is due
out... =)  Who's idea was it for that battle scene between Tinuva and Bovai?
The description of it sent shivers down my back!  I never really stopped to
think how the Elven kind would do battles one on one, but playing Dodge the
Arrow was a great idea!
    I would also like to point out, the book seemed to have only one voice,
versus two like some coauthored books I have read in the past from other
authors.  I was hooked on the book since page one.  Ray did you find this
harder to write then when you teamed up with Janny?

Thanks,

Jason Martin

"Mas Tequila!"
       Red Vodoo- Sammy Hagar



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From: "Selina Takerei" <buny@optushome.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
References: <Pine.OSF.4.30.0109121354430.31680-100000@student.uq.edu.au><3B9EDF23.B6AD8E16@home.com><1m1jEED+73n7Ew5P@bloodaxe.demon.co.uk><3B9F8F7C.9DE865EE@yifan.net><002101c13bfc$b9ddc200$a786a4cb@sunsh1.vic.optushome.com.au> <200109131252230802.00A4D547@mail-hub>
Subject: Re: Terrorist Activities
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Selina Takerei" <buny@optushome.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Terrorist Activities
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 19:57:12 +1000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

the melbourne airport thing was kept out of the papers as they didnt want
racial stress and descrimination spreading like it is in other countries
around the world.

i know i shared some personal things with the list, as someone so kindly
pointed out..... but i spent 20 years of my life keeping everything to
myself and watching people go through similar things that i did, and me
still not saying anything, they turned to drugs, sex etc.

Now i have this one saying......

Something lived is something learned, and something learned should be
shared.

Sharing is the one thing that keeps this world going...
whether it is the sharing of material posessions, of knowledge, love,
friendship, even food.

If more people started to realise this and help eachother out and listen to
eachother once in a while, then maybe we wouldnt have so much greed and crap
going on in our lives.
People these days are too selfish, and yes, sorry, that was a
generalisation, but looking at the world today, do you really blame me for
generalising ?

anyway, i have babbled enough......

but i have one thing more to say....

I know my first post may have seemed a little racist, but i really didnt
mean it that way.

all i was trying to point out was the fact that people with a violent
background like most Islamic people have endured, usually when they snap for
what ever reason, will snap in a way that the rest of us will never
understand, and due to the fact that they have seen so much, and experienced
such horrific violent acts from their own friends and family, then it
shouldnt be much of a surprise that they are capable of doing anything with
no remorse.

I am now related to a very large Islamic family, who although at the moment
we are having our troubles, no matter what, they are still my family.
as every race and religion has their bad apples, all also have their mangoes
and peaches (the good ones, just incase im on a totally different plane of
thinking, as im so often told).

I am not a racist person, far from infact, i cant afford to be considering i
have 9 different nationalities in me that i know of !!!

anyway, thanks for reading all my drivel.
oh and sorry you had to read my drivel too hey....

Sel.




----- Original Message -----
From: Jason Mulligan <sulimo@bigpond.net.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2001 12:52 PM
Subject: Re: Terrorist Activities


> On 13/09/2001 at 12:35 PM Selina Takerei wrote:
>
> >I am deeply saddened by the fact that anyone or anything with a soul could
> >do such a horrific act.
> >I am so saddened to say that yesterday morning, Melbourne airport was
> >packed
> >with taxi drivers of Islamic decent, all holding signs and cheering.....
>
> Did you actually see this? or was it just crazies on talkback?
>
> Me, I feel sorry for all the reprisals that will take place on the innocent
> people of arab descent, and have already in Sydney (people trying to burn
> down mosques, etc).
>
> e
>



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From: "Selina Takerei" <buny@optushome.com.au>
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References: <Pine.OSF.4.30.0109140732330.11263-100000@student.uq.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Terrorist Activities
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 20:06:52 +1000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Selina Takerei" <buny@optushome.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Terrorist Activities
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 20:06:52 +1000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

dont ask me how accurate this is, as im tipping we would have definately
heard something about this one, so i really doubt its validity.....

but a friend of mine told my sister yesterday that someone of Islamic decent
was stoned to death in perth (and no im not talking about death by pipes)

as i said, i really doubt it, but it goes to show....... how bad have things
come that people will even start such horrific rumours just for a bit of
hype !!

Sel.


----- Original Message -----
From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Friday, September 14, 2001 7:33 AM
Subject: Re: Terrorist Activities


> > >I am deeply saddened by the fact that anyone or anything with a soul could
> > >do such a horrific act.
> > >I am so saddened to say that yesterday morning, Melbourne airport was
> > >packed
> > >with taxi drivers of Islamic decent, all holding signs and cheering.....
> >
> > Did you actually see this? or was it just crazies on talkback?
> >
> > Me, I feel sorry for all the reprisals that will take place on the innocent
> > people of arab descent, and have already in Sydney (people trying to burn
> > down mosques, etc).
> > e
>
> A mosque in a suburb of my city, Brisbane, Australia, was firebombed last
> night.
>
> I'm thinking that _local_ anti-muslim activists are using the current US
> situtation as an excuse to do violence.
>
> Thanks
> Darragh
> -=-=
> www.iamtheporkfireman.com
> [Email]: s356179@student.uq.edu.au [ICQ]: 114283262
>



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References: <Pine.OSF.4.30.0109140732330.11263-100000@student.uq.edu.au> <001c01c13d04$fb48cba0$a786a4cb@sunsh1.vic.optushome.com.au>
Subject: Re: Terrorist Activities
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 12:16:28 +0200
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*** EOOH ***
From: "MAURITS DE RIDDER" <maurits.de.ridder@pandora.be>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Terrorist Activities
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 12:16:28 +0200
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Please dont sent me annimore of your e-mails. I am not interested
----- Original Message -----
From: "Selina Takerei" <buny@optushome.com.au>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Friday, September 14, 2001 12:06 PM
Subject: Re: Terrorist Activities


> dont ask me how accurate this is, as im tipping we would have definately
> heard something about this one, so i really doubt its validity.....
>
> but a friend of mine told my sister yesterday that someone of Islamic decent
> was stoned to death in perth (and no im not talking about death by pipes)
>
> as i said, i really doubt it, but it goes to show....... how bad have things
> come that people will even start such horrific rumours just for a bit of
> hype !!
>
> Sel.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
> To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> Sent: Friday, September 14, 2001 7:33 AM
> Subject: Re: Terrorist Activities
>
>
> > > >I am deeply saddened by the fact that anyone or anything with a soul
> could
> > > >do such a horrific act.
> > > >I am so saddened to say that yesterday morning, Melbourne airport was
> > > >packed
> > > >with taxi drivers of Islamic decent, all holding signs and
> cheering.....
> > >
> > > Did you actually see this? or was it just crazies on talkback?
> > >
> > > Me, I feel sorry for all the reprisals that will take place on the
> innocent
> > > people of arab descent, and have already in Sydney (people trying to
> burn
> > > down mosques, etc).
> > > e
> >
> > A mosque in a suburb of my city, Brisbane, Australia, was firebombed last
> > night.
> >
> > I'm thinking that _local_ anti-muslim activists are using the current US
> > situtation as an excuse to do violence.
> >
> > Thanks
> > Darragh
> > -=-=
> > www.iamtheporkfireman.com
> > [Email]: s356179@student.uq.edu.au [ICQ]: 114283262
> >
>
>



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References: <200109132032.f8DKWNj29145@smtp2.san.rr.com> <4.3.2.7.2.20010913200829.00c083d0@postoffice.pacbell.net>
Subject: Re: Moving on
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 08:04:57 -0300
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From: "Wolfrider Firesight" <wolfriderfiresight@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re: Moving on
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It was merely a suggestion.

I was not really concerned as to whether it would've ever been pursued.  I
only thought of it, as a group of friends and associates sharing their
feelings, through the creative process.

IF it doesn't happen here, then it doesn't, and we move on.

Enough said.

*-) Firesight *-)

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ray Chiang" <rchiang@pacbell.net>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Friday, September 14, 2001 12:16 AM
Subject: Re: Moving on


> At 07:18 PM 9/13/2001 -0300, Firesight wrote:
>  >
>  >What about this compromise:  how about list members (including yourself)
>  >submit written pieces to this list, reflecting their thoughts and moods. It
>  >could be a short story, poetry, reflective piece, lymeric (within good
>  >taste).  Even if it is not directly linked to recent events, the creative
>  >process might be a good outlet for those who want a differnt way to release.
>
> There's a subtle point about Netiquette involved here.
>
> If you wish to start a forum for these sorts of things,
> feel free to open up a Yahoo! group or similar list and
> mention *once* on this list to allow those who want to join.
>
> Assuming that REF (or anyone else) has more to say on the
> matter is a bit presumptious, especially considering how
> much he's already posted about the subject.
>
> For myself, I wouldn't mind seeing the thread about the
> events of 9/11 end here, since I see and hear plenty through
> the news, friends, coworkers, etc. on a daily basis.
>
> -Ray
>
>



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--

On Thu, 13 Sep 2001 22:09:55  
 Jason Martin wrote:
>S
>P
>O
>I
>L
>E
>R
>
>S
>P
>A
>C
>E
>
>
>    Ok, Great book for starters and I can not wait till the next one is due
>out... =)  Who's idea was it for that battle scene between Tinuva and Bovai?
>The description of it sent shivers down my back!  I never really stopped to
>think how the Elven kind would do battles one on one, but playing Dodge the
>Arrow was a great idea!



Indeed. I think it was the first time I saw that kind of duel in books
I have read.



>    I would also like to point out, the book seemed to have only one voice,
>versus two like some coauthored books I have read in the past from other
>authors.  
>Jason Martin
>


You know, there is some parts where I was quite sure Ray wrote
it. Here is an exemple (and Ray feel free to tell me I'm dead wrong
<g>)When Gregory and Richard go together to scout the trolls, and
Richard made his first troll kill, I was feeling like Ray was writing
this entire part.

There are some other parts, but I don't want to dig my hole too much
here :-)

PJ



>
>


Get 250 color business cards for FREE!
http://businesscards.lycos.com/vp/fastpath/



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Subject: Odd coincidence
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This is pretty strange.

http://www.cnn.com/2001/US/09/14/america.under.attack/

One of the hijackers last names was Sugami.

I just finished HE BTW, and simply loved it.  Thanks for another good read Ray.

Darren



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Subject: Re: Terrorist Activities
References: <Pine.OSF.4.30.0109121354430.31680-100000@student.uq.edu.au>
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Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 15:48:43 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Andrea J Chee <andrea@bloodaxe.com>
Subject: Re: Terrorist Activities
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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In article <001001c13d03$a074f420$a786a4cb@sunsh1.vic.optushome.com.au>,
Selina Takerei <buny@optushome.com.au> writes
>
>If more people started to realise this and help eachother out and listen to
>eachother once in a while, then maybe we wouldnt have so much greed and crap
>going on in our lives.

This item that's doing the rounds made me think. My only regret is that
I didn't write it myself.

=========================================================

The Deeper Wound

As fate would have it, I was leaving New York on a jet flight that took
off 45 minutes before the unthinkable happened. By the time we landed in
Detroit, chaos had broken out. When I grasped the fact that American
security had broken down so tragically, I couldn't respond at first. My
wife and son were also in the air on separate flights, one to Los
Angeles, one to San Diego. My body went absolutely rigid with fear. All
I could think about was their safety, and it took several hours before I
found out that their flights had been diverted and both were safe.

Strangely, when the good news came, my body still felt that it had been
hit by a truck. Of its own accord it seemed to feel a far greater trauma
that reached out to the thousands who would not survive and the tens of
thousands who would survive only to live through months and years of
hell. And I asked myself, Why didn't I feel this way last week? Why
didn't my body go stiff during the bombing of Iraq or Bosnia? Around the
world my horror and worry are experienced every day. Mothers weep over
horrendous loss, civilians are bombed mercilessly, refugees are ripped
from any sense of home or homeland. Why did I not feel their anguish
enough to call a halt to it?

As we hear the calls for tightened American security and a fierce
military response to terrorism, it is obvious that none of us has any
answers. However, we feel compelled to ask some questions. Everything
has a cause, so we have to ask, what was the root cause of this evil?
We must find out not superficially but at the deepest level. There is no
doubt that such evil is alive all around the world and is even
celebrated.

Does this evil grow from the suffering and anguish felt by people we
don't know and therefore ignore? Have they lived in this condition for a
long time?

One assumes that whoever did this attack feels implacable hatred for
America. Why were we selected to be the focus of suffering around the
world? All this hatred and anguish seems to have religion at its basis.
Isn't something terribly wrong when jihads and wars develop in the name
of God? Isn't God invoked with hatred in Ireland, Sri Lanka, India,
Pakistan, Israel, Palestine, and even among the intolerant sects of
America?

Can any military response make the slightest difference in the
underlying cause? Is there not a deep wound at the heart of humanity?

If there is a deep wound, doesn't it affect everyone?

When generations of suffering respond with bombs, suicidal attacks, and
biological warfare, who first developed these weapons? Who sells them?
Who gave birth to the satanic technologies now being turned against us?

If all of us are wounded, will revenge work? Will punishment in any form
toward anyone solve the wound or aggravate it? Will an eye for an eye, a
tooth for a tooth, and limb for a limb, leave us all blind, toothless
and crippled?

Tribal warfare has been going on for two thousand years and has now
gotten magnified globally. Can tribal warfare be brought to an end? Is
patriotism and nationalism even relevant anymore, or is this another
form of tribalism?

What are you and I as persons going to do about what is happening? Can
we afford to let the deeper wound fester any longer?

Everyone is calling this an attack on America, but is it not a rift in
our collective soul? Isn't this an attack on civilization from without
that is also from within?

When we have secured our safety once more and cared for the wounded,
after the period of shock and mourning is over, it will be time for soul
searching. I only hope that these questions are confronted with the
deepest spiritual intent. None of us will feel safe again behind the
shield of military might and stockpiled arsenals. There can be no safety
until the root cause is faced. In this moment of shock I don't think
anyone of us has the answers. It is imperative that we pray and offer
solace and help to each other. But if you and I are having a single
thought of violence or hatred against anyone in the world at this
moment, we are contributing to the wounding of the world.

Love,

Deepak Chopra

=========================================================

That says pretty much everything I'd say if I had the words.

- ANDREA

-- 
  Get PAID for the emails you already send and receive! 
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 09:14:15 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: HE Enemy Question SPOILERS...
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On Thursday, September 13, 2001, at 10:09 PM, Jason Martin wrote:

> S
> P
> O
> I
> L
> E
> R
>
> S
> P
> A
> C
> E
>
>
>     Ok, Great book for starters and I can not wait till the next one is 
> due
> out... =)  Who's idea was it for that battle scene between Tinuva and 
> Bovai?

That was Bill, primarily.

> The description of it sent shivers down my back!  I never really 
> stopped to
> think how the Elven kind would do battles one on one, but playing Dodge 
> the
> Arrow was a great idea!
>     I would also like to point out, the book seemed to have only one 
> voice,
> versus two like some coauthored books I have read in the past from other
> authors.  I was hooked on the book since page one.  Ray did you find 
> this
> harder to write then when you teamed up with Janny?

Actually it was easier to write, as I'm a bit older now and have already 
written three novels with another writer.  Bill's also collaborated 
before so he knew the drill.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.

1,,
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 09:15:41 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: HE Enemy Question SPOILERS...
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On Friday, September 14, 2001, at 04:38 AM, Paddyjack [ ] wrote:

>
> --
>
> On Thu, 13 Sep 2001 22:09:55
>  Jason Martin wrote:
>> S
>> P
>> O
>> I
>> L
>> E
>> R
>>
>> S
>> P
>> A
>> C
>> E
>>
>>
>>    Ok, Great book for starters and I can not wait till the next one is 
>> due
>> out... =)  Who's idea was it for that battle scene between Tinuva and 
>> Bovai?
>> The description of it sent shivers down my back!  I never really 
>> stopped to
>> think how the Elven kind would do battles one on one, but playing 
>> Dodge the
>> Arrow was a great idea!
>
>
>
> Indeed. I think it was the first time I saw that kind of duel in books 
> I have read.
>
>
>
>>    I would also like to point out, the book seemed to have only one 
>> voice,
>> versus two like some coauthored books I have read in the past from 
>> other
>> authors.
>> Jason Martin
>>
>
>
> You know, there is some parts where I was quite sure Ray wrote it. Here 
> is an exemple (and Ray feel free to tell me I'm dead wrong <g>)When 
> Gregory and Richard go together to scout the trolls, and Richard made 
> his first troll kill, I was feeling like Ray was writing this entire 
> part.
>
> There are some other parts, but  I don't want to dig my hole too much 
> here :-)
>
> G----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 09:16:26 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: HE Enemy Question SPOILERS...
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On Friday, September 14, 2001, at 04:38 AM, Paddyjack [ ] wrote:

>
> --
>
> On Thu, 13 Sep 2001 22:09:55
>  Jason Martin wrote:
>> S
>> P
>> O
>> I
>> L
>> E
>> R
>>
>> S
>> P
>> A
>> C
>> E
>>
>>
>>    Ok, Great book for starters and I can not wait till the next one is 
>> due
>> out... =)  Who's idea was it for that battle scene between Tinuva and 
>> Bovai?
>> The description of it sent shivers down my back!  I never really 
>> stopped to
>> think how the Elven kind would do battles one on one, but playing 
>> Dodge the
>> Arrow was a great idea!
>
>
>
> Indeed. I think it was the first time I saw that kind of duel in books 
> I have read.
>
>
>
>>    I would also like to point out, the book seemed to have only one 
>> voice,
>> versus two like some coauthored books I have read in the past from 
>> other
>> authors.
>> Jason Martin
>>
>
>
> You know, there is some parts where I was quite sure Ray wrote it. Here 
> is an exemple (and Ray feel free to tell me I'm dead wrong <g>)When 
> Gregory and Richard go together to scout the trolls, and Richard made 
> his first troll kill, I was feeling like Ray was writing this entire 
> part.
>
> There are some other parts, but  I don't want to dig my hole too much 
> here :-)
>
> PJ
>
>
>
>>
>>
>
>
> Get 250 color business cards for FREE!
> http://businesscards.lycos.com/vp/fastpath/
>
>

Sorry the empty response I just inadvertently send.

Anyway, good idea not to keep digging.  Bill wrote that and I did almost 
no rewrite, save a phrase or two.

Best, R.E.F.

----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 09:21:41 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Moving on
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On Thursday, September 13, 2001, at 06:37 PM, Joel Davis wrote:

> --- Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com> wrote:
>
>> To help with the healing and
>> getting over the
>> shock, some places need to return to normalcy as
>> soon as possible, while
>> other venues need to continue to provide a place to
>> express outrage,
>> fear, grief, and concern.
>
> Amen, Mr. Feist.
>
> As a writer, does working within the constraints of
> the Midkemian history and background limit you in any
> way?
>

No more than writing an historical novel on earth is limited by the 
history of the period you choose to write in.

> If you hadn't worked with the Midkemia group, what
> direction do you believe your work would have taken
> ultimately? Would you have gravitated more or less
> towards the more fantastic elements found in your
> writings?
>

Yes.  I think I would have chosen fantasy because it was as close as I 
could get to historicals back in the 1970's/1980's.

> Has there been any negative aspects to using the
> Midkemian background in your work?

None, really.
>
> And, more mundanely, have you tried the Brazilian
> steak house in San Diego near the convention center?
> :)

Can't say as I have, as I dine downtown rarely, and when I do it's 
usually Crocie's or one of the Italian joints nearby.  When I'm in the 
mood for a steak, it's Flemming's.  Do you remember the name of the 
place?

> Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.

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Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 12:32:06 EDT
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*** EOOH ***
From: TheRabidAmish@aol.com
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 12:32:06 EDT
Subject: Re: Moving on
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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Sorry to be so far out of the loop, but I checked the FAQ and didn't see 
it...Which book is HE?  I've been off of the list for about a year and didn't 
know I had missed a book.

Thanks,


Shawn



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 09:57:35 -0700 (PDT)
From: Joel Davis <divinebear@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Moving on
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--- Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com> wrote in
reply to a question about a San Diego Brazilian steak
house:

> Can't say as I have, as I dine downtown rarely, and
> when I do it's 
> usually Crocie's or one of the Italian joints
> nearby.  When I'm in the 
> mood for a steak, it's Flemming's.  Do you remember
> the name of the 
> place?

It's the Rei Do Gado at 939 Fourth Ave. Fasting prior
to a visit is suggested. :)

Best,

Joel Davis


=====
Do you grok?

__________________________________________________
Terrorist Attacks on U.S. - How can you help?
Donate cash, emergency relief information
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From: "Paddyjack [ ]" <erykel@lycos.com>
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>>
>> You know, there is some parts where I was quite sure Ray wrote it. Here 
>> is an exemple (and Ray feel free to tell me I'm dead wrong <g>)When 
>> Gregory and Richard go together to scout the trolls, and Richard made 
>> his first troll kill, I was feeling like Ray was writing this entire 
>> part.
>>
>> There are some other parts, but  I don't want to dig my hole too much 
>> here :-)
>>
>> PJ
>>

>Sorry the empty response I just inadvertently send.
>
>Anyway, good idea not to keep digging.  Bill wrote that and I did almost 
>no rewrite, save a phrase or two.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>


Oups..... I guess mistakes make me human :-) Well then, Bill wrote
that part very well :-)

/me look around to see if his blunder has been seen, and start to run
into hiding

:-)
PJ


Get 250 color business cards for FREE!
http://businesscards.lycos.com/vp/fastpath/



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>--- Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com> wrote in
>reply to a question about a San Diego Brazilian steak
>house:
>
> > Can't say as I have, as I dine downtown rarely, and
> > when I do it's
> > usually Crocie's or one of the Italian joints
> > nearby.  When I'm in the
> > mood for a steak, it's Flemming's.  Do you remember
> > the name of the
> > place?
>
>It's the Rei Do Gado at 939 Fourth Ave. Fasting prior
>to a visit is suggested. :)
>
>Best,
>
>Joel Davis


Rei do Gado??? cool! This is the name of a soap opera about cattle in Brazil 
that aired some years ago. The advice of fasting is a very good one indeed, 
because most probably first-time customers never ate that many steak served 
there in a single day before. ;)

Speaking of steak houses, I always see in movies and such that the american 
barbecue usually is made with hamburguer beefs (you know, that classic scene 
that the friends and family are together, sun shining, etc), and I am a 
little bit curious if this kind of steak houses are appreciated in US.

Have someone ever tasted "Feijoada" (brazilian bean soup)?

Beers,
Alvaro

"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away".
Philip K. Dick




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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 19:22:43 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Al Solo <solo.nova@btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: Moving on
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HE (Honoured Enemy) is the newly released book by Ray Feist  and Bill 
Forstchen.

Al

At 12:32 14/09/2001 -0400, you wrote:
>Sorry to be so far out of the loop, but I checked the FAQ and didn't see
>it...Which book is HE?  I've been off of the list for about a year and didn't
>know I had missed a book.
>
>Thanks,
>
>
>Shawn



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From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Halflings
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 15:10:16 -0400
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Hello Ray, someone mentioned that there were halflngs/hobbits in the 
Midkemia game world that you deleated from the novels. Do you remember where 
the Halflings hailed from in Midkemia?

Adieu

Jimmy

_________________________________________________________________
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From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Steak house (was:Re: Moving on)
Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2001 03:09:44 +0800
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu 
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Alvaro Santos
> Sent: Saturday, 15 September 2001 1:21 AM
> To: FEISTFANS-L
> Subject: OT: Steak house (was:Re: Moving on)
> 
> 
[snip]
> 
> Speaking of steak houses, I always see in movies and such 
> that the american 
> barbecue usually is made with hamburguer beefs (you know, 
> that classic scene 
> that the friends and family are together, sun shining, etc), 
> and I am a 
> little bit curious if this kind of steak houses are appreciated in US.
> 
[snip]

I know what you mean, on stuff like simpsons if they are having a BBQ it
seem to primarily be flipping burgers. Generally a BBQ here consists of
Steak and Sausages, <drool> Aaaaah, sausages <grin> I can't wait for
summer now - I can almost taste it already.

CW



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From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Halflings
Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2001 03:25:50 +0800
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*** EOOH ***
From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Halflings
Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2001 03:25:50 +0800
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu 
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of James Silva
> Sent: Saturday, 15 September 2001 3:10 AM
> To: FEISTFANS-L
> Subject: Halflings
> 
> 
> Hello Ray, someone mentioned that there were halflngs/hobbits in the 
> Midkemia game world that you deleated from the novels. Do you 
> remember where 
> the Halflings hailed from in Midkemia?
> 

Where they hailed from? Wouldn't that be the bridge of their starship
<grin>

CW



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Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 12:31:17 -0700
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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Alan Kellogg <mythusmage@cts.com>
Subject: RE: Steak house (was:Re: Moving on)
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 12:31:17 -0700
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Alan Kellogg <mythusmage@cts.com>
Subject: RE: Steak house (was:Re: Moving on)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

>  > -----Original Message-----
>>  From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>>  [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Alvaro Santos
>>  Sent: Saturday, 15 September 2001 1:21 AM
>>  To: FEISTFANS-L
>>  Subject: OT: Steak house (was:Re: Moving on)
>>
>>
>[snip]
>>
>>  Speaking of steak houses, I always see in movies and such
>>  that the american
>>  barbecue usually is made with hamburguer beefs (you know,
>>  that classic scene
>>  that the friends and family are together, sun shining, etc),
>>  and I am a
>>  little bit curious if this kind of steak houses are appreciated in US.
>>
>[snip]
>
>I know what you mean, on stuff like simpsons if they are having a BBQ it
>seem to primarily be flipping burgers. Generally a BBQ here consists of
>Steak and Sausages, <drool> Aaaaah, sausages <grin> I can't wait for
>summer now - I can almost taste it already.
>
>CW

Our Labor Day cook-out consisted of steaks, sausages, hot dogs, and 
burgers. Though getting the lederhosen off the last was a bitch.:)

Alan
-- 
_______

Mythusmage.com, <http://www.mythusmage.com> at its new location!

mailto:mythusmage@mythusmage.com

ICQ: 103299329



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Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 12:48:13 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT: Steak house (was:Re: Moving on)
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On Friday, September 14, 2001, at 10:20 AM, Alvaro Santos wrote:

>> --- Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com> wrote in
>> reply to a question about a San Diego Brazilian steak
>> house:
>>
>> > Can't say as I have, as I dine downtown rarely, and
>> > when I do it's
>> > usually Crocie's or one of the Italian joints
>> > nearby.  When I'm in the
>> > mood for a steak, it's Flemming's.  Do you remember
>> > the name of the
>> > place?
>>
>> It's the Rei Do Gado at 939 Fourth Ave. Fasting prior
>> to a visit is suggested. :)
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Joel Davis
>
>
> Rei do Gado??? cool! This is the name of a soap opera about cattle in 
> Brazil that aired some years ago. The advice of fasting is a very good 
> one indeed, because most probably first-time customers never ate that 
> many steak served there in a single day before. ;)
>
> Speaking of steak houses, I always see in movies and such that the 
> american barbecue usually is made with hamburguer beefs (you know, that 
> classic scene that the friends and family are together, sun shining, 
> etc), and I am a little bit curious if this kind of steak houses are 
> appreciated in US.


The grilling of hamburgers you're referring to is an American staple.  
But they are not considered "steaks."

The traditional American steak is prepared without sauce or marinade.  
Usually it's prime aged beef that's cook at very high heat quickly, 
served with a little salt, pepper and butter with a variety of side 
dishes, vegetables, potatoes of various types, salads, wine/beer, etc.  
The very best are incredible.

There there's "BBQ," which most Americans who don't live in Texas, 
Kansas City, the Deep South, confuse with "grilling."  True BBQ involves 
marinades and slow cooking over wood fires or charcoal, and rarely 
includes steaks.  Most often it's sausages, pork ribs, beef back ribs, 
and chicken and fish.  Grilling is cooking anything over a 
wood/charcoal/gas fire outdoors.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: OT: Sausage type foods (was RE: Steak house (was:Re: Moving on))
Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2001 03:48:42 +0800
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*** EOOH ***
From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: OT: Sausage type foods (was RE: Steak house (was:Re: Moving on))
Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2001 03:48:42 +0800
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> 
> Our Labor Day cook-out consisted of steaks, sausages, hot dogs, and 
> burgers. Though getting the lederhosen off the last was a bitch.:)
> 
> Alan
> -- 
> _______
> 
> Mythusmage.com, <http://www.mythusmage.com> at its new location!
> 
> mailto:mythusmage@mythusmage.com

Stupid lederhosen :)

I'd take a nice proper sausage in a bun over a hot dog anyday. Although,
the hot dog things on sticks with the batter and they dip the end in
sauce are pretty cool. I'm not sure what the official American title is,
the food vans that sell them here typically call the Dagwood Dogs I
think.

CW



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>Our Labor Day cook-out consisted of steaks, sausages, hot dogs, and
>burgers. Though getting the lederhosen off the last was a bitch.:)
>
>Alan

Oh, thats true. A regular diet on this basis is the best way to turn a human 
being into a mamooth.  *g*

Beers,
Alvaro


"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away".
Philip K. Dick



_________________________________________________________________
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Subject: Re: Sausage type foods (was RE: Steak house (was:Re: Moving on))
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From: "C.T. Cusimano" <supert@redshift.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Sausage type foods (was RE: Steak house (was:Re: Moving on))
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 12:57:12 -0700
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----- Original Message ----- 
From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Friday, September 14, 2001 12:48 PM
Subject: OT: Sausage type foods (was RE: Steak house (was:Re: Moving on))


> 
> > 
> > Our Labor Day cook-out consisted of steaks, sausages, hot dogs, and 
> > burgers. Though getting the lederhosen off the last was a bitch.:)
> > 
> > Alan
> > -- 
> > _______
> > 
> > Mythusmage.com, <http://www.mythusmage.com> at its new location!
> > 
> > mailto:mythusmage@mythusmage.com
> 
> Stupid lederhosen :)
> 
> I'd take a nice proper sausage in a bun over a hot dog anyday. Although,
> the hot dog things on sticks with the batter and they dip the end in
> sauce are pretty cool. I'm not sure what the official American title is,
> the food vans that sell them here typically call the Dagwood Dogs I
> think.
> 
> CW
> 
hehe they are called corn dogs in the states



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 12:49:08 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Halflings
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On Friday, September 14, 2001, at 12:10 PM, James Silva wrote:

> Hello Ray, someone mentioned that there were halflngs/hobbits in the 
> Midkemia game world that you deleated from the novels. Do you remember 
> where the Halflings hailed from in Midkemia?
>


They were just "there," as were all the "random" monsters and characters.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Subject: RE: Sausage type foods (was RE: Steak house (was:Re: Moving on))
Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2001 04:12:47 +0800
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*** EOOH ***
From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Sausage type foods (was RE: Steak house (was:Re: Moving on))
Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2001 04:12:47 +0800
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu



> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu 
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of C.T. Cusimano
> Sent: Saturday, 15 September 2001 3:57 AM
> To: FEISTFANS-L
> Subject: Re: Sausage type foods (was RE: Steak house (was:Re: 
> Moving on))
> 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
> To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> Sent: Friday, September 14, 2001 12:48 PM
> Subject: OT: Sausage type foods (was RE: Steak house (was:Re: 
> Moving on))
> 
> 
> > 
> > > 
> > > Our Labor Day cook-out consisted of steaks, sausages, hot 
> dogs, and 
> > > burgers. Though getting the lederhosen off the last was a bitch.:)
> > > 
> > > Alan
> > > -- 
> > > _______
> > > 
> > > Mythusmage.com, <http://www.mythusmage.com> at its new location!
> > > 
> > > mailto:mythusmage@mythusmage.com
> > 
> > Stupid lederhosen :)
> > 
> > I'd take a nice proper sausage in a bun over a hot dog 
> anyday. Although,
> > the hot dog things on sticks with the batter and they dip the end in
> > sauce are pretty cool. I'm not sure what the official 
> American title is,
> > the food vans that sell them here typically call the Dagwood Dogs I
> > think.
> > 
> > CW
> > 
> hehe they are called corn dogs in the states

I thought so but wasn't sure. They do taste rather good though,
unfortunately they're not commonly available here.

CW



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Subject: RE: OT: Steak house (was:Re: Moving on)
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*** EOOH ***
From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: OT: Steak house (was:Re: Moving on)
Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2001 04:12:47 +0800
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu



> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu 
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Raymond Feist
> Sent: Saturday, 15 September 2001 3:48 AM
> To: FEISTFANS-L
> Subject: Re: OT: Steak house (was:Re: Moving on)
> 
> 
> 
> On Friday, September 14, 2001, at 10:20 AM, Alvaro Santos wrote:
> 
> >> --- Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com> wrote in
> >> reply to a question about a San Diego Brazilian steak
> >> house:
> >>
> >> > Can't say as I have, as I dine downtown rarely, and
> >> > when I do it's
> >> > usually Crocie's or one of the Italian joints
> >> > nearby.  When I'm in the
> >> > mood for a steak, it's Flemming's.  Do you remember
> >> > the name of the
> >> > place?
> >>
> >> It's the Rei Do Gado at 939 Fourth Ave. Fasting prior
> >> to a visit is suggested. :)
> >>
> >> Best,
> >>
> >> Joel Davis
> >
> >
> > Rei do Gado??? cool! This is the name of a soap opera about 
> cattle in 
> > Brazil that aired some years ago. The advice of fasting is 
> a very good 
> > one indeed, because most probably first-time customers 
> never ate that 
> > many steak served there in a single day before. ;)
> >
> > Speaking of steak houses, I always see in movies and such that the 
> > american barbecue usually is made with hamburguer beefs 
> (you know, that 
> > classic scene that the friends and family are together, sun 
> shining, 
> > etc), and I am a little bit curious if this kind of steak 
> houses are 
> > appreciated in US.
> 
> 
> The grilling of hamburgers you're referring to is an American 
> staple.  
> But they are not considered "steaks."
> 
> The traditional American steak is prepared without sauce or 
> marinade.  
> Usually it's prime aged beef that's cook at very high heat quickly, 
> served with a little salt, pepper and butter with a variety of side 
> dishes, vegetables, potatoes of various types, salads, 
> wine/beer, etc.  
> The very best are incredible.
> 
> There there's "BBQ," which most Americans who don't live in Texas, 
> Kansas City, the Deep South, confuse with "grilling."  True 
> BBQ involves 
> marinades and slow cooking over wood fires or charcoal, and rarely 
> includes steaks.  Most often it's sausages, pork ribs, beef 
> back ribs, 
> and chicken and fish.  Grilling is cooking anything over a 
> wood/charcoal/gas fire outdoors.
> 
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
> 
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be 
> explained away by 
> stupidity.
> 

Generally here on Oz if you have a barbie it involves heating up the
black piece of metal out the back and throwing dead animal on it. Then
you can have bread/buns/salads etc. as well - and no barbie is complete
without the beer of course.

CW



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Subject: Re: Halflings
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 22:16:13 +0200
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*** EOOH ***
From: "DPont" <d.pontolaeng@chello.nl>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Halflings
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 22:16:13 +0200
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I didn't know there were Hobbits/halflings, but I think it's cool. 

Tot Dob!!
Stefanie
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Raymond Feist" <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Friday, September 14, 2001 9:49 PM
Subject: Re: Halflings


> 
> On Friday, September 14, 2001, at 12:10 PM, James Silva wrote:
> 
> > Hello Ray, someone mentioned that there were halflngs/hobbits in the 
> > Midkemia game world that you deleated from the novels. Do you remember 
> > where the Halflings hailed from in Midkemia?
> >
> 
> 
> They were just "there," as were all the "random" monsters and characters.
> 
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
> 
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
> stupidity.
> 



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Subject: OT: RE: Sausage type foods (was RE: Steak house (was:Re: Moving on))
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Subject: OT: RE: Sausage type foods (was RE: Steak house (was:Re: Moving on))
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 15:19:16 -0500
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From: "Lowder, Jason" <jasonl@spfld.kebcpa.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
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I think you are talking about corn dogs, which are the favorite of fair
goers everywhere in the US.  

Also, I have had Italian Sausage on the grill, but my favorite is
Bratwurst, seconded by pork chops, chicken, and pork steak, all with a
mixture of dried onion pieces, seasoning salt, and garlic powder on them
while cooking.  

As a side, I take potatoes, and cube them into 1 cm square chunks, fresh
yellow onion, chopped, and a couple of tablespoons of butter, and
combine all of these ingredients, then place them into a piece of
aluminum foil and cover them up by making the foil into a pouch.  Place
it on the grill, and let it cook with the meat.  This is called hobo
stew, it is wonderful!!! (but oh so bad for you).

Jason Lowder 

-----Original Message-----
>From: David Pengelley [mailto:wolf@icenet.com.au] 
>Sent: Friday, September 14, 2001 2:49 PM
>To: FEISTFANS-L
>Subject: OT: Sausage type foods (was RE: Steak house (was:Re: Moving
>on))
>
>
>> 
>> Our Labor Day cook-out consisted of steaks, sausages, hot dogs, and 
>> burgers. Though getting the lederhosen off the last was a bitch.:)
>> 
>> Alan
>> -- 
>> _______
>> 
>> Mythusmage.com, <http://www.mythusmage.com> at its new location!
>> 
>> mailto:mythusmage@mythusmage.com
>
>Stupid lederhosen :)
>
>I'd take a nice proper sausage in a bun over a hot dog anyday. Although,
>the hot dog things on sticks with the batter and they dip the end in
>sauce are pretty cool. I'm not sure what the official American title is,
>the food vans that sell them here typically call the Dagwood Dogs I
>think.
>
>CW
>
>

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Subject: Re: OT: Steak house (was:Re: Moving on)
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From: "Jason Martin" <res0b95g@verizon.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT: Steak house (was:Re: Moving on)
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 13:17:25 -0700
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"Mas Tequila!"
       Red Vodoo- Sammy Hagar
----- Original Message -----
From: "Raymond Feist" <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Friday, September 14, 2001 12:48 PM
Subject: Re: OT: Steak house (was:Re: Moving on)


>
> On Friday, September 14, 2001, at 10:20 AM, Alvaro Santos wrote:
>
> >> --- Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com> wrote in
> >> reply to a question about a San Diego Brazilian steak
> >> house:
> >>
> >> > Can't say as I have, as I dine downtown rarely, and
> >> > when I do it's
> >> > usually Crocie's or one of the Italian joints
> >> > nearby.  When I'm in the
> >> > mood for a steak, it's Flemming's.  Do you remember
> >> > the name of the
> >> > place?
> >>
> >> It's the Rei Do Gado at 939 Fourth Ave. Fasting prior
> >> to a visit is suggested. :)
> >>
> >> Best,
> >>
> >> Joel Davis
> >
> >
> > Rei do Gado??? cool! This is the name of a soap opera about cattle in
> > Brazil that aired some years ago. The advice of fasting is a very good
> > one indeed, because most probably first-time customers never ate that
> > many steak served there in a single day before. ;)
> >
> > Speaking of steak houses, I always see in movies and such that the
> > american barbecue usually is made with hamburguer beefs (you know, that
> > classic scene that the friends and family are together, sun shining,
> > etc), and I am a little bit curious if this kind of steak houses are
> > appreciated in US.
>
>
> The grilling of hamburgers you're referring to is an American staple.
> But they are not considered "steaks."
>
> The traditional American steak is prepared without sauce or marinade.
> Usually it's prime aged beef that's cook at very high heat quickly,
> served with a little salt, pepper and butter with a variety of side
> dishes, vegetables, potatoes of various types, salads, wine/beer, etc.
> The very best are incredible.
>
> There there's "BBQ," which most Americans who don't live in Texas,
> Kansas City, the Deep South, confuse with "grilling."  True BBQ involves
> marinades and slow cooking over wood fires or charcoal, and rarely
> includes steaks.  Most often it's sausages, pork ribs, beef back ribs,
> and chicken and fish.  Grilling is cooking anything over a
> wood/charcoal/gas fire outdoors.
>
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
>
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
> stupidity.
>
Well I guess I now Grill instead of BBQ =)  I have a Gas Grill and I love
it.  Its easy to start and get going right away.  For those who like
Grilling Steaks and marinading them?  Try a quarter can of Guiness Beer, BBQ
sauce, and 3 cloves of Garlic, and some chopped up white onion  For the
mariande you want it kind of syrupy I think, not to thick, but then not to
then like its just water.  Marinate for an hour atleast, flipping each side.
I used that on a Ribeye cut and damn was it juicy and good.  I think Ray
summed up american BBQ and grilling really well.  I personally like my
steaks rare-Medium Rare =)

Jason



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----- Original Message -----
From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Friday, September 14, 2001 1:12 PM
Subject: RE: Sausage type foods (was RE: Steak house (was:Re: Moving on))


>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of C.T. Cusimano
> > Sent: Saturday, 15 September 2001 3:57 AM
> > To: FEISTFANS-L
> > Subject: Re: Sausage type foods (was RE: Steak house (was:Re:
> > Moving on))
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
> > To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> > Sent: Friday, September 14, 2001 12:48 PM
> > Subject: OT: Sausage type foods (was RE: Steak house (was:Re:
> > Moving on))
> >
> >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Our Labor Day cook-out consisted of steaks, sausages, hot
> > dogs, and
> > > > burgers. Though getting the lederhosen off the last was a bitch.:)
> > > >
> > > > Alan
> > > > --
> > > > _______
> > > >
> > > > Mythusmage.com, <http://www.mythusmage.com> at its new location!
> > > >
> > > > mailto:mythusmage@mythusmage.com
> > >
> > > Stupid lederhosen :)
> > >
> > > I'd take a nice proper sausage in a bun over a hot dog
> > anyday. Although,
> > > the hot dog things on sticks with the batter and they dip the end in
> > > sauce are pretty cool. I'm not sure what the official
> > American title is,
> > > the food vans that sell them here typically call the Dagwood Dogs I
> > > think.
> > >
> > > CW
> > >
> > hehe they are called corn dogs in the states
>
> I thought so but wasn't sure. They do taste rather good though,
> unfortunately they're not commonly available here.
>
> CW
>
dip a hotdog in pancake batter and fry your tongue will love it but your
heart will object (at least in the long run)



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From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
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Subject: RE: Halflings
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 16:27:20 -0400
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From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
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Subject: RE: Halflings
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>From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
>Subject: RE: Halflings
>Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2001 03:25:50 +0800
>
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of James Silva
> > Sent: Saturday, 15 September 2001 3:10 AM
> > To: FEISTFANS-L
> > Subject: Halflings
> >
> >
> > Hello Ray, someone mentioned that there were halflngs/hobbits in the
> > Midkemia game world that you deleated from the novels. Do you
> > remember where
> > the Halflings hailed from in Midkemia?
> >
>
>Where they hailed from? Wouldn't that be the bridge of their starship
><grin>
>
>CW

Ahh yes, very funny, tis also possible they fell from the sky in the form of 
chunks of ice. I can't wait to hear what comments are posted when someone 
asks about the economic "intercourse" between Kesh and Isles.
>


_________________________________________________________________
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*** EOOH ***
From: "A Irving" <aignome@dingoblue.net.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT: Steak house (was:Re: Moving on)
Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2001 09:22:48 +1000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

From: David Pengelley <wolf@icenet.com.au>
> Generally here on Oz if you have a barbie it involves heating up the
> black piece of metal out the back and throwing dead animal on it. Then
> you can have bread/buns/salads etc. as well - and no barbie is complete
> without the beer of course.
>
> CW
I see you are a true aussie <G>. Though it is many different animals and
different parts (including sausage form). Beer is essential and a beer
marinate for the steak is also good  -sometimes<BG>. The BBQ my parents has
is kind of sacreligous in that you can replace one of the flat grill plates
with a plate for a Wok.
CIAO,
           Aaron

http://www.hallofworlds.net/kerr/main.php
http://www.nightshadow.co.uk



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From: "greg batman" <pollux@swirve.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 18:41:02 -0500
Subject: Re: OT: Steak house (was:Re: Moving on)
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*** EOOH ***
From: "greg batman" <pollux@swirve.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 18:41:02 -0500
Subject: Re: OT: Steak house (was:Re: Moving on)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

> The grilling of hamburgers you're referring to is an American staple.  
> But they are not considered "steaks."
> 
> The traditional American steak is prepared without sauce or marinade.  
> Usually it's prime aged beef that's cook at very high heat quickly, 
> served with a little salt, pepper and butter with a variety of side 
> dishes, vegetables, potatoes of various types, salads, wine/beer, etc.  
> The very best are incredible.
> 
> There there's "BBQ," which most Americans who don't live in Texas, 
> Kansas City, the Deep South, confuse with "grilling."  True BBQ involves 
> marinades and slow cooking over wood fires or charcoal, and rarely 
> includes steaks.  Most often it's sausages, pork ribs, beef back ribs, 
> and chicken and fish.  Grilling is cooking anything over a 
> wood/charcoal/gas fire outdoors.
> 
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
> 
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
> stupidity.

ahh, but as a Texan, i have to mention the all important brisket with
bbq sauce.  that is the center piece of true Texan barbecue.  it's
amazing what hours of cooking can do to a hunk of animal flesh.

-- 

_______________________________________________
Get Free Email at Swirve.com, http://www.swirve.com



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Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 17:29:24 -0700
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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Alan Kellogg <mythusmage@cts.com>
Subject: Re: OT: RE: Sausage type foods (was RE: Steak house (was:Re:
 Moving on))
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 17:29:24 -0700
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Alan Kellogg <mythusmage@cts.com>
Subject: Re: OT: RE: Sausage type foods (was RE: Steak house (was:Re:
 Moving on))
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

>I think you are talking about corn dogs, which are the favorite of fair
>goers everywhere in the US.

When I say 'hot dogs' I mean, *HOT DOGS*. Now stop trying to read my 
mind, you're making my lobes itch.:)

Alan
-- 
_______

Mythusmage.com, <http://www.mythusmage.com> at its new location!

mailto:mythusmage@mythusmage.com

ICQ: 103299329



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Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 17:34:19 -0700
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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Alan Kellogg <mythusmage@cts.com>
Subject: RE: Steak house (was:Re: Moving on)
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 17:34:19 -0700
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Alan Kellogg <mythusmage@cts.com>
Subject: RE: Steak house (was:Re: Moving on)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

>>Our Labor Day cook-out consisted of steaks, sausages, hot dogs, and
>>burgers. Though getting the lederhosen off the last was a bitch.:)
>>
>>Alan
>
>Oh, thats true. A regular diet on this basis is the best way to turn 
>a human being into a mamooth.  *g*
>
>Beers,
>Alvaro

We stopped the sort of steady diet years ago. Seems all those 
mammoths were migrating to Siberia and tearing up the tiaga. For a 
short while they were shipped to Africa, but the elephants complained 
about all the damn longhairs. You know what it's like finding mammoth 
hair in your salad?

Alan
-- 
_______

Mythusmage.com, <http://www.mythusmage.com> at its new location!

mailto:mythusmage@mythusmage.com

ICQ: 103299329



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From: "Selina Takerei" <buny@optushome.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
References: <Pine.OSF.4.30.0109140732330.11263-100000@student.uq.edu.au> <001c01c13d04$fb48cba0$a786a4cb@sunsh1.vic.optushome.com.au> <008f01c13d06$51bfb1a0$cdade0d5@pandora.be>
Subject: Re: Terrorist Activities
Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2001 11:17:31 +1000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Selina Takerei" <buny@optushome.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Terrorist Activities
Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2001 11:17:31 +1000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

actually sweetness, i didnt send the post to you, it was sent to the list.
if you are not interested, i suggest you try not reading it maybe ????
just may be a good idea.

----- Original Message -----
From: MAURITS DE RIDDER <maurits.de.ridder@pandora.be>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Friday, September 14, 2001 8:16 PM
Subject: Re: Terrorist Activities


> Please dont sent me annimore of your e-mails. I am not interested
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Selina Takerei" <buny@optushome.com.au>
> To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> Sent: Friday, September 14, 2001 12:06 PM
> Subject: Re: Terrorist Activities
>
>
> > dont ask me how accurate this is, as im tipping we would have definately
> > heard something about this one, so i really doubt its validity.....
> >
> > but a friend of mine told my sister yesterday that someone of Islamic
> decent
> > was stoned to death in perth (and no im not talking about death by pipes)
> >
> > as i said, i really doubt it, but it goes to show....... how bad have
> things
> > come that people will even start such horrific rumours just for a bit of
> > hype !!
> >
> > Sel.
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
> > To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> > Sent: Friday, September 14, 2001 7:33 AM
> > Subject: Re: Terrorist Activities
> >
> >
> > > > >I am deeply saddened by the fact that anyone or anything with a soul
> > could
> > > > >do such a horrific act.
> > > > >I am so saddened to say that yesterday morning, Melbourne airport was
> > > > >packed
> > > > >with taxi drivers of Islamic decent, all holding signs and
> > cheering.....
> > > >
> > > > Did you actually see this? or was it just crazies on talkback?
> > > >
> > > > Me, I feel sorry for all the reprisals that will take place on the
> > innocent
> > > > people of arab descent, and have already in Sydney (people trying to
> > burn
> > > > down mosques, etc).
> > > > e
> > >
> > > A mosque in a suburb of my city, Brisbane, Australia, was firebombed
> last
> > > night.
> > >
> > > I'm thinking that _local_ anti-muslim activists are using the current US
> > > situtation as an excuse to do violence.
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > > Darragh
> > > -=-=
> > > www.iamtheporkfireman.com
> > > [Email]: s356179@student.uq.edu.au [ICQ]: 114283262
> > >
> >
> >
>



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Subject: Just need to say
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 21:27:20 -0400
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Brian Doucette" <bid@psouth.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Just need to say
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 21:27:20 -0400
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I dont post on this very often, but have been monitoring it for a few years
now. Anway i would just like to say this one thing about this sick situation
we are in.

You can never fight violence with more violence, it only leads to uneeded
war, famine, death, chaos, destruction, and a generaly bad time for anyone
involved. As my parents, family, teachers, and elders have always said "Two
wrongs, will never make a right"

                                                                            
 --Brian Doucette


|
|On the Bombings
|
|Noam Chomsky
|
|
|
|
|The terrorist attacks were major atrocities. In scale they may not reach the
|level of many others, for example, Clinton's bombing of the Sudan with no
|credible pretext, destroying half its pharmaceutical supplies and killing
|unknown numbers of people (no one knows, because the US blocked an inquiry
|at the UN and no one cares to pursue it). Not to speak of much worse cases,
|which easily come to mind. But that this was a horrendous crime is not in
|doubt. The primary victims, as usual, were working people: janitors,
|secretaries, firemen, etc. It is likely to prove to be a crushing blow to
|Palestinians and other poor and oppressed people. It is also likely to lead
|to harsh security controls, with many possible ramifications for undermining
|civil liberties and internal freedom.
|
|
|
|The events reveal, dramatically, the foolishness of the project of "missile
|defense." As has been obvious all along, and pointed out repeatedly by
|strategic analysts, if anyone wants to cause immense damage in the US,
|including weapons of mass destruction, they are highly unlikely to launch a
|missile attack, thus guaranteeing their immediate destruction. There are
|innumerable easier ways that are basically unstoppable. But today's events
|will, very likely, be exploited to increase the pressure to develop these
|systems and put them into place. "Defense" is a thin cover for plans for
|militarization of space, and with good PR, even the flimsiest arguments will
|carry some weight among a frightened public.
|
|
|
|In short, the crime is a gift to the hard jingoist right, those who hope to
|use force to control their domains. That is even putting aside the likely US
|actions, and what they will trigger -- possibly more attacks like this one,
|or worse. The prospects ahead are even more ominous than they appeared to be
|before the latest atrocities.
|
|
|
|As to how to react, we have a choice. We can express justified horror; we
|can seek to understand what may have led to the crimes, which means making
|an effort to enter the minds of the likely perpetrators. If we choose the
|latter course, we can do no better, I think, than to listen to the words of
|Robert Fisk, whose direct knowledge and insight into affairs of the region
|is unmatched after many years of distinguished reporting. Describing "The
|wickedness and awesome cruelty of a crushed and humiliated people," he
|writes that "this is not the war of democracy versus terror that the world
|will be asked to believe in the coming days. It is also about American
|missiles smashing into Palestinian homes and US helicopters firing missiles
|into a Lebanese ambulance in 1996 and American shells crashing into a
|village called Qana and about a Lebanese militia ­ paid and uniformed by
|America's Israeli ally ­ hacking and raping and murdering their way through
|refugee camps." And much more. Again, we have a choice: we may try to
|understand, or refuse to do so, contributing to the likelihood that much
|worse lies ahead.
|
|
|
|Noam Chomsky
|
|

1, edited,,
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From: "C.T. Cusimano" <supert@redshift.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Just need to say
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 18:37:48 -0700
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I guess someone should of explained this to the allies when they were
fighting the axis they would of loved a different solution to survivng the
axis powers than sending thousands of young man off to die I'm sure....
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Doucette" <bid@psouth.net>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Friday, September 14, 2001 6:27 PM
Subject: Just need to say


> I dont post on this very often, but have been monitoring it for a few years
> now. Anway i would just like to say this one thing about this sick situation
> we are in.
>
> You can never fight violence with more violence, it only leads to uneeded
> war, famine, death, chaos, destruction, and a generaly bad time for anyone
> involved. As my parents, family, teachers, and elders have always said "Two
> wrongs, will never make a right"
>
>
>  --Brian Doucette
>
>
>
> On the Bombings
>
> Noam Chomsky
>
>
>
>
> The terrorist attacks were major atrocities. In scale they may not reach the
> level of many others, for example, Clinton's bombing of the Sudan with no
> credible pretext, destroying half its pharmaceutical supplies and killing
> unknown numbers of people (no one knows, because the US blocked an inquiry
> at the UN and no one cares to pursue it). Not to speak of much worse cases,
> which easily come to mind. But that this was a horrendous crime is not in
> doubt. The primary victims, as usual, were working people: janitors,
> secretaries, firemen, etc. It is likely to prove to be a crushing blow to
> Palestinians and other poor and oppressed people. It is also likely to lead
> to harsh security controls, with many possible ramifications for undermining
> civil liberties and internal freedom.
>
>
>
> The events reveal, dramatically, the foolishness of the project of "missile
> defense." As has been obvious all along, and pointed out repeatedly by
> strategic analysts, if anyone wants to cause immense damage in the US,
> including weapons of mass destruction, they are highly unlikely to launch a
> missile attack, thus guaranteeing their immediate destruction. There are
> innumerable easier ways that are basically unstoppable. But today's events
> will, very likely, be exploited to increase the pressure to develop these
> systems and put them into place. "Defense" is a thin cover for plans for
> militarization of space, and with good PR, even the flimsiest arguments will
> carry some weight among a frightened public.
>
>
>
> In short, the crime is a gift to the hard jingoist right, those who hope to
> use force to control their domains. That is even putting aside the likely US
> actions, and what they will trigger -- possibly more attacks like this one,
> or worse. The prospects ahead are even more ominous than they appeared to be
> before the latest atrocities.
>
>
>
> As to how to react, we have a choice. We can express justified horror; we
> can seek to understand what may have led to the crimes, which means making
> an effort to enter the minds of the likely perpetrators. If we choose the
> latter course, we can do no better, I think, than to listen to the words of
> Robert Fisk, whose direct knowledge and insight into affairs of the region
> is unmatched after many years of distinguished reporting. Describing "The
> wickedness and awesome cruelty of a crushed and humiliated people," he
> writes that "this is not the war of democracy versus terror that the world
> will be asked to believe in the coming days. It is also about American
> missiles smashing into Palestinian homes and US helicopters firing missiles
> into a Lebanese ambulance in 1996 and American shells crashing into a
> village called Qana and about a Lebanese militia ­ paid and uniformed by
> America's Israeli ally ­ hacking and raping and murdering their way through
> refugee camps." And much more. Again, we have a choice: we may try to
> understand, or refuse to do so, contributing to the likelihood that much
> worse lies ahead.
>
>
>
> Noam Chomsky
>



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Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 19:14:31 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Just need to say
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On Friday, September 14, 2001, at 06:27 PM, Brian Doucette wrote:

> I dont post on this very often, but have been monitoring it for a few 
> years
> now. Anway i would just like to say this one thing about this sick 
> situation
> we are in.
>
> You can never fight violence with more violence, it only leads to 
> uneeded
> war, famine, death, chaos, destruction, and a generaly bad time for 
> anyone
> involved. As my parents, family, teachers, and elders have always said 
> "Two
> wrongs, will never make a right"
>
>
>  --Brian Doucette
>
>
>
> On the Bombings
>
> Noam Chomsky
>
>
>
>
> The terrorist attacks were major atrocities. In scale they may not 
> reach the
> level of many others, for example, Clinton's bombing of the Sudan with 
> no
> credible pretext, destroying half its pharmaceutical supplies and 
> killing
> unknown numbers of people (no one knows, because the US blocked an 
> inquiry
> at the UN and no one cares to pursue it). Not to speak of much worse 
> cases,
> which easily come to mind. But that this was a horrendous crime is not 
> in
> doubt. The primary victims, as usual, were working people: janitors,
> secretaries, firemen, etc. It is likely to prove to be a crushing blow 
> to
> Palestinians and other poor and oppressed people. It is also likely to 
> lead
> to harsh security controls, with many possible ramifications for 
> undermining
> civil liberties and internal freedom.
>
>
>
> The events reveal, dramatically, the foolishness of the project of 
> "missile
> defense." As has been obvious all along, and pointed out repeatedly by
> strategic analysts, if anyone wants to cause immense damage in the US,
> including weapons of mass destruction, they are highly unlikely to 
> launch a
> missile attack, thus guaranteeing their immediate destruction. There are
> innumerable easier ways that are basically unstoppable. But today's 
> events
> will, very likely, be exploited to increase the pressure to develop 
> these
> systems and put them into place. "Defense" is a thin cover for plans for
> militarization of space, and with good PR, even the flimsiest arguments 
> will
> carry some weight among a frightened public.
>
>
>
> In short, the crime is a gift to the hard jingoist right, those who 
> hope to
> use force to control their domains. That is even putting aside the 
> likely US
> actions, and what they will trigger -- possibly more attacks like this 
> one,
> or worse. The prospects ahead are even more ominous than they appeared 
> to be
> before the latest atrocities.
>
>
>
> As to how to react, we have a choice. We can express justified horror; 
> we
> can seek to understand what may have led to the crimes, which means 
> making
> an effort to enter the minds of the likely perpetrators. If we choose 
> the
> latter course, we can do no better, I think, than to listen to the 
> words of
> Robert Fisk, whose direct knowledge and insight into affairs of the 
> region
> is unmatched after many years of distinguished reporting. Describing 
> "The
> wickedness and awesome cruelty of a crushed and humiliated people," he
> writes that "this is not the war of democracy versus terror that the 
> world
> will be asked to believe in the coming days. It is also about American
> missiles smashing into Palestinian homes and US helicopters firing 
> missiles
> into a Lebanese ambulance in 1996 and American shells crashing into a
> village called Qana and about a Lebanese militia ­ paid and uniformed by
> America's Israeli ally ­ hacking and raping and murdering their way 
> through
> refugee camps." And much more. Again, we have a choice: we may try to
> understand, or refuse to do so, contributing to the likelihood that much
> worse lies ahead.
>
>
>
> Noam Chomsky
>
>

This ranks right up there with Nobel Prize Winner Robert Shockley using 
his cachet as a world class physicist to get press to support his claim 
that he had "proof" that non-whites were genetically inferior to 
whites.  Chomsky's area of expertise is language acquisition theory, and 
it's apparent he's got a very simplistic world view when it comes to 
politics, still.  Chomsky was an fool when he insisted on his 
psychological theories outside his area of expertise 30 years ago in the 
face of contradictory data and it's apparent he's still one today.

To boil down realities into polemics and to keep beating the same 
"American Imperialism" drum he was beating during the Viet Nam war and 
to attempt to diminish the terror unleashed on the US and other 
countries by Osama bin Laden and his murderers by citing allegations 
about the strike against the Sudanese chemical plants (which were almost 
certainly making the very biological weapons likely to be bin Laden's 
next weapon of choice) is irresponsible to the point of being 
inflammatory.



Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.

1,,
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Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2001 12:42:36 +1000
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Alex Loke <nerf@alphalink.com.au>
Subject: Re: Just need to say
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

At 06:37 PM 14/09/2001 -0700, you wrote:
>I guess someone should of explained this to the allies when they were
>fighting the axis they would of loved a different solution to survivng the
>axis powers than sending thousands of young man off to die I'm sure....

And that simply drives home Brian's point - thousands of young men died.
When someone is killed prematurely, you rob them of everything; their
potential as human beings, their experiences, their future contribution to
the world. This is what makes murder such a vile act. How many future
loving husbands,  world-famous humanitarians, brilliant scientists and
great leaders did we lose?

That war is necessary is debatable, though I'm not here to argue that
policy-wise it was a wise decision. That it was a waste of lives I will
vehemently state.

We may not have the answers, but with some of the greatest minds in the
world working away on peace instead of war, what heights we could achieve!

I found his (Brian's) idealism is refreshing.

Regards,

Alex Loke



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>When someone is killed prematurely, you rob them of everything; their
>potential as human beings, their experiences, their future contribution to
>the world. This is what makes murder such a vile act. How many future
>loving husbands, world-famous humanitarians, brilliant scientists and great
>leaders did we lose?

Sorry, I meant to credit Ray with this notion...

Alex



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Subject: Re: Just need to say
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 22:47:25 -0500
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Chad" <feistfan@chadkeffer.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Just need to say
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 22:47:25 -0500
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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<snip>

> The terrorist attacks were major atrocities. In scale they may
> not reach the level of many others, for example, Clinton's bombing
> of the Sudan with no credible pretext, destroying half its
> pharmaceutical supplies and killing unknown numbers of people
> (no one knows, because the US blocked an inquiry at the UN 
> and no one cares to pursue it). 

Actually, my father worked the cruise missile program for years before
congress finally bought it.  In all their tests, they NEVER missed.
You can rest assured that any target hit, even a civilian was hit for
a reason.  Just because the average American sitting at home in front
of CNN doesn't know why doesn't mean there wasn't a reason.  Many
apparently civilian targets are actually very strategic targets to
attack.  After the explosion and the propaganda we will never know
what was really there, but rest assured, it wasn't an accident or bad
intel.

As far as the unfortunate death of civilians.  I sympathize, however,
at some point citizens must be held responsible for the governments
they allow to exist.

To quote our own Declaration of Independence:

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created
equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable
Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of
Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted
among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the
governed, -- THAT WHENEVER ANY FORM OF GOVERNMENT BECOMES DESTRUCTIVE
OF THESE ENDS, IT IS THE RIGHT OF THE PEOPLE TO ALTER OR TO ABOLISH
IT, AND TO INSTITUTE NEW GOVERNMENT, laying its foundation on such
principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall
seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness."

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Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 20:48:59 -0700
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From: Alan Kellogg <mythusmage@cts.com>
Subject: Re: Just need to say
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 20:48:59 -0700
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Alan Kellogg <mythusmage@cts.com>
Subject: Re: Just need to say
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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>At 06:37 PM 14/09/2001 -0700, you wrote:
>>I guess someone should of explained this to the allies when they were
>>fighting the axis they would of loved a different solution to survivng the
>>axis powers than sending thousands of young man off to die I'm sure....
>
>And that simply drives home Brian's point - thousands of young men died.
>When someone is killed prematurely, you rob them of everything; their
>potential as human beings, their experiences, their future contribution to
>the world. This is what makes murder such a vile act. How many future
>loving husbands,  world-famous humanitarians, brilliant scientists and
>great leaders did we lose?
>
>That war is necessary is debatable, though I'm not here to argue that
>policy-wise it was a wise decision. That it was a waste of lives I will
>vehemently state.
>
>We may not have the answers, but with some of the greatest minds in the
>world working away on peace instead of war, what heights we could achieve!
>
>I found his (Brian's) idealism is refreshing.
>
>Regards,
>
>Alex Loke

My dad was there. So was my mom. They saw the pictures from the camps 
in the movies, just weeks after they were taken. I learned about the 
camps in elementary school. I learned about Japanese atrocities then 
as well. So I'm going to be blunt here, neither you or Brian are 
idealistic, you are merely naive.

There are times when you can't rely on the good will of others. There 
are times when your fellow man is going to be a fucking bastard, and 
the only way you can stop him is to kill him. Not everybody wants to 
engage in dialogue, all they want to do is kill you, and you have but 
one viable response.

Sorry, but while Man is not the vile beast some call him, neither is 
he the glowing angel others deem him. Man falls somewhere in the 
middle. It is fortunate that those willing to kill for some damn 
reason are so rare, but they still exist and there are times when 
there is no recourse but to place good people in harms way to 
eliminate any threat the violent pose to the rest of Humanity.

And for your information *millions* died during the war. Tens of 
millions. Died because one man wanted it. One man wished to see his 
vision forced upon the world, to see those he considered sub-human 
eliminated. He was not at all interested in talking with anybody, 
except when such talk got him what he wanted. Even if war had been 
avoided, millions would still have died. Millions of German Jews, 
Gypsies, mentally ill, homosexuals, and political opponents. Would 
you be willing to accept those deaths in return for peace.

Would that we could settle all our differences peacefully. but so 
long as there are men such as Adolf Hitler and Osama bin Laden, men 
who hate, we will need to take steps to stop them, to stop their 
murdering ways, and sometimes that means war.

Sometimes you need to put your life on the line to stop murder, just 
ask any cop. Now is such a time.

Alan
-- 
_______

Mythusmage.com, <http://www.mythusmage.com> at its new location!

mailto:mythusmage@mythusmage.com

ICQ: 103299329



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*** EOOH ***
From: "Steve Russell" <smrussel@email.unc.edu>
To: <feistfans-l@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Goodbye
Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2001 01:02:34 -0400
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Feistfans,

Unfortunately, I just do not have the time right now to keep checking this
mailing list.  I've had a lot of great years here, mostly lurking.  And also
thanks for the support for the REF Internet Resource Index while it was in
existence.

I'll keep on reading Ray's books - which never fail to entertain.  Best of
luck to all of you, and I'm sure I'll be back sometime.  Until then...

Steve Russell (smrussel@email.unc.edu)
Editor, Carolina Review




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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 22:27:37 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Friday, September 14, 2001, at 10:02 PM, Steve Russell wrote:

> Feistfans,
>
> Unfortunately, I just do not have the time right now to keep checking 
> this
> mailing list.  I've had a lot of great years here, mostly lurking.  And 
> also
> thanks for the support for the REF Internet Resource Index while it was 
> in
> existence.
>
> I'll keep on reading Ray's books - which never fail to entertain.  Best 
> of
> luck to all of you, and I'm sure I'll be back sometime.  Until then...
>
> Steve Russell (smrussel@email.unc.edu)
> Editor, Carolina Review
>
>
>

Take it easy Steve, and drop back in any time.

Best, R.E.F,
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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From: Alex Loke <nerf@alphalink.com.au>
Subject: Re: Just need to say
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References: <200109150243.f8F2hfZ27822@mx4.alphalink.com.au>
 <F115l4dDPlbAtfRsTPi000131ae@hotmail.com>
 <a05100301b7c851f96362@[204.216.199.158]>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2001 18:34:54 +1000
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Alex Loke <nerf@alphalink.com.au>
Subject: Re: Just need to say
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

At 08:48 PM 14/09/2001 -0700, you wrote:
>My dad was there. So was my mom. They saw the pictures from the camps 
>in the movies, just weeks after they were taken. I learned about the 
>camps in elementary school. I learned about Japanese atrocities then 
>as well. So I'm going to be blunt here, neither you or Brian are 
>idealistic, you are merely naive.

My parents were forced from their homes, after living in occupied territory
for the first part of their lives. They lived the attrocities. Am I so
naive because I wish for a better world? I still maintain faith in humanity
regardless. The day I lose that faith, I am made less. I'd appreciate that
you don't mock my belief because you believe you've learned better. It's
the very core of intolerance.

>There are times when you can't rely on the good will of others. There 
>are times when your fellow man is going to be a fucking bastard, and 
>the only way you can stop him is to kill him. Not everybody wants to 
>engage in dialogue, all they want to do is kill you, and you have but 
>one viable response.

One viable response? How you derive at this thought process, I'm unsure.
Even without being in the situation, there is nothing that will make me
take a human life. I WILL find another way.

>Sorry, but while Man is not the vile beast some call him, neither is 
>he the glowing angel others deem him. Man falls somewhere in the 
>middle. It is fortunate that those willing to kill for some damn 
>reason are so rare, but they still exist and there are times when 
>there is no recourse but to place good people in harms way to 
>eliminate any threat the violent pose to the rest of Humanity.

I don't see the world through rose coloured glasses. But I would like to
believe mankind is destined for something better. Idealism in a can.

>And for your information *millions* died during the war. Tens of 
>millions. Died because one man wanted it. One man wished to see his 
>vision forced upon the world, to see those he considered sub-human 
>eliminated. He was not at all interested in talking with anybody, 
>except when such talk got him what he wanted. Even if war had been 
>avoided, millions would still have died. Millions of German Jews, 
>Gypsies, mentally ill, homosexuals, and political opponents. Would 
>you be willing to accept those deaths in return for peace.

You don't seem to understand, I don't mock the sacrifice of the millions
who died - civilian or military. I simply refuse to believe that killing is
the final, best solution to the world's problems. I don't have the answer
myself - I don't pretend to. However, I can ask that you accept compassion
before hate. If the international community were to accept this, imagine
the result.

Regards,

Alex Loke



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Subject: Re: Sausage type foods (was RE: Steak house (was:Re: Moving on))
Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2001 08:43:17 -0300
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From: "Firesight" <wolfriderfiresight@hotmail.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Sausage type foods (was RE: Steak house (was:Re: Moving on))
Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2001 08:43:17 -0300
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Hey,

Goota love those corn dogs!  They're corny!  I've mad e a few of them, out
of my own batter and hot dogs (not on sticks).  They turned out OK, but I
think I was using the wrong kind of batter or coating.  I will know more for
next time.

DOes anyone know if you can buy corn battter as a package?  If not, then
what ingredients do I need to make it?

My arteries are hardening, just waiting for an answer! *-)

*-) FIresight *-)

----- Original Message -----
From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Friday, September 14, 2001 5:12 PM
Subject: RE: Sausage type foods (was RE: Steak house (was:Re: Moving on))


>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of C.T. Cusimano
> > Sent: Saturday, 15 September 2001 3:57 AM
> > To: FEISTFANS-L
> > Subject: Re: Sausage type foods (was RE: Steak house (was:Re:
> > Moving on))
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
> > To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> > Sent: Friday, September 14, 2001 12:48 PM
> > Subject: OT: Sausage type foods (was RE: Steak house (was:Re:
> > Moving on))
> >
> >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Our Labor Day cook-out consisted of steaks, sausages, hot
> > dogs, and
> > > > burgers. Though getting the lederhosen off the last was a bitch.:)
> > > >
> > > > Alan
> > > > --
> > > > _______
> > > >
> > > > Mythusmage.com, <http://www.mythusmage.com> at its new location!
> > > >
> > > > mailto:mythusmage@mythusmage.com
> > >
> > > Stupid lederhosen :)
> > >
> > > I'd take a nice proper sausage in a bun over a hot dog
> > anyday. Although,
> > > the hot dog things on sticks with the batter and they dip the end in
> > > sauce are pretty cool. I'm not sure what the official
> > American title is,
> > > the food vans that sell them here typically call the Dagwood Dogs I
> > > think.
> > >
> > > CW
> > >
> > hehe they are called corn dogs in the states
>
> I thought so but wasn't sure. They do taste rather good though,
> unfortunately they're not commonly available here.
>
> CW
>
>



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Subject: Re: Sausage type foods (was RE: Steak house (was:Re: Moving on))
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Subject: Re: Sausage type foods (was RE: Steak house (was:Re: Moving on))
Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2001 08:47:01 -0300
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I tried using pancake batte,r but I think I let them sit for too long.
SHould they be deep fried, in order to get the crispiness, or can they be
grilled on a pan?  I used a pan,a dn while they turned out tastey, they were
fairly dark (wanted to make sure that the dogs were cooked
through -shoudl've cooked them first).

I know better now.

*-) FIresight *-)

----- Original Message -----
From: "C.T. Cusimano" <supert@redshift.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Friday, September 14, 2001 5:23 PM
Subject: Re: Sausage type foods (was RE: Steak house (was:Re: Moving on))


>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
> To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> Sent: Friday, September 14, 2001 1:12 PM
> Subject: RE: Sausage type foods (was RE: Steak house (was:Re: Moving on))
>
>
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > > [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of C.T. Cusimano
> > > Sent: Saturday, 15 September 2001 3:57 AM
> > > To: FEISTFANS-L
> > > Subject: Re: Sausage type foods (was RE: Steak house (was:Re:
> > > Moving on))
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
> > > To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> > > Sent: Friday, September 14, 2001 12:48 PM
> > > Subject: OT: Sausage type foods (was RE: Steak house (was:Re:
> > > Moving on))
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Our Labor Day cook-out consisted of steaks, sausages, hot
> > > dogs, and
> > > > > burgers. Though getting the lederhosen off the last was a bitch.:)
> > > > >
> > > > > Alan
> > > > > --
> > > > > _______
> > > > >
> > > > > Mythusmage.com, <http://www.mythusmage.com> at its new location!
> > > > >
> > > > > mailto:mythusmage@mythusmage.com
> > > >
> > > > Stupid lederhosen :)
> > > >
> > > > I'd take a nice proper sausage in a bun over a hot dog
> > > anyday. Although,
> > > > the hot dog things on sticks with the batter and they dip the end in
> > > > sauce are pretty cool. I'm not sure what the official
> > > American title is,
> > > > the food vans that sell them here typically call the Dagwood Dogs I
> > > > think.
> > > >
> > > > CW
> > > >
> > > hehe they are called corn dogs in the states
> >
> > I thought so but wasn't sure. They do taste rather good though,
> > unfortunately they're not commonly available here.
> >
> > CW
> >
> dip a hotdog in pancake batter and fry your tongue will love it but your
> heart will object (at least in the long run)
>
>



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Subject: Re: Halflings
Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2001 08:51:12 -0300
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From: "Firesight" <wolfriderfiresight@hotmail.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Halflings
Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2001 08:51:12 -0300
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Yed all better watch out, if halfings have a starship!  Geez!  They would be
the baddest things this side of Orion's Belt!

Heh Heh Heh.  Go Halflings!  Hobbits are cool, but I like how D&D 3rd Ed. is
trying to portray them (miniature humans).  They are the sweet deal!

My Lev5 Halfling Rogue is the sweet deal!

*-) Firesight *-)

----- Original Message -----
From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Friday, September 14, 2001 4:25 PM
Subject: RE: Halflings


>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of James Silva
> > Sent: Saturday, 15 September 2001 3:10 AM
> > To: FEISTFANS-L
> > Subject: Halflings
> >
> >
> > Hello Ray, someone mentioned that there were halflngs/hobbits in the
> > Midkemia game world that you deleated from the novels. Do you
> > remember where
> > the Halflings hailed from in Midkemia?
> >
>
> Where they hailed from? Wouldn't that be the bridge of their starship
> <grin>
>
> CW
>
>



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Subject: Re: Halflings
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Subject: Re: Halflings
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Well, if you think abou tit
----- Original Message -----
From: "DPont" <d.pontolaeng@chello.nl>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Friday, September 14, 2001 5:16 PM
Subject: Re: Halflings


> I didn't know there were Hobbits/halflings, but I think it's cool.
>
> Tot Dob!!
> Stefanie

Well, if you think abou tit, there are "hobbits/halflings" on our own world.
I am not meaning to be insulting to those who are afflicted with being
incredibly short (as in the 2.5 to 3.5 foot range), but they are as close to
this race as we currently have.

Why do I even mention this?  Well I've always felt that Ray's books as being
quite realistic.  Sure there is fantasy, but the use of Earth-based names,
and highly feaseable situations, makes it seem all too real.  It can see
many paralelles in Midkemia/Lelwan, that I can see in Earth.  Hobbits
included!

Hobbits are cool!

*-) Firesight *-)



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Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2001 07:38:57 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Saturday, September 15, 2001, at 01:34 AM, Alex Loke wrote:

> [snip]

> You don't seem to understand, I don't mock the sacrifice of the millions
> who died - civilian or military. I simply refuse to believe that 
> killing is
> the final, best solution to the world's problems. I don't have the 
> answer
> myself - I don't pretend to. However, I can ask that you accept 
> compassion
> before hate. If the international community were to accept this, imagine
> the result.
>
> Regards,
>
> Alex Loke
>
>

Killing is never "the final, best solution" to the world's problems.

Sometimes, however, it is the only appropriate response to a mortal 
threat.

Some people don't want to be negotiated with.  When someone has only one 
demand, your  death, you can't give them anything they want save to lay 
down and die.  There are, sad to report, kill or be killed situations.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.

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I did not mean to start such an argument, I was just posting an
alternative view to the situations at hand. I have family scattered
about in all forms of military and I do not make light the deaths of
others. I fear there is much worse to come. We need not make hasty
decisions, which our goverment is fond of doing, we need to make sure
we get the person(s) responsible.

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I don't think the US government would simply bomb the hell out of another 
country to make the American Psyche feel good. If we engage in some sort of 
military action, it would like to think that it is because we have good 
reason.

Adieu

Jimmy


Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary 
Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
   -- Benjamin Franklin




>From: "Brian Doucette" <bid@psouth.net>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
>Subject: Re: Just need to say
>Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2001 11:59:30 -0400
>
>I did not mean to start such an argument, I was just posting an alternative 
>view to the situations at hand. I have family scattered about in all forms 
>of military and I do not make light the deaths of others. I fear there is 
>much worse to come. We need not make hasty decisions, which our goverment 
>is fond of doing, we need to make sure we get the person(s) responsible.


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp



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Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2001 10:04:56 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Just need to say
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On Saturday, September 15, 2001, at 08:59 AM, Brian Doucette wrote:

> I did not mean to start such an argument, I was just posting an 
> alternative view to the situations at hand. I have family scattered 
> about in all forms of military and I do not make light the deaths of 
> others. I fear there is much worse to come. We need not make hasty 
> decisions, which our goverment is fond of doing, we need to make sure 
> we get the person(s) responsible.

Our government has made only ONE hasty decision in recent historical 
memory; the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution, which was what got us into Viet 
Nam.   The fact Kabul isn't being bombed back into the stone age today 
tells you this government will move with appropriate diligence.   But 
posting the ramblings of Noam Chomsky  as if his position was rational 
and reasonable is inflammatory.  His attempt to pain the bombing of a 
chemical plant in Sudan, which was almost certainly making 
chemical/biological weapons for Sadam and bin Laden, as being "worse" 
than the horror visited upon thousands of civilians should have keyed 
you to the fact the man is without credibility.  Civilians die in war.  
The difference in those two cases is one was a case of civilians dying 
because they were unfortunate enough to live near or work at a military 
target.   In the other case, civilians WERE the targer.

As far as Chomksy,  I have  regard for his early work on language 
acquisition, though his general psychological models are laughable by 
modern standards.  His policits is a legacy of his anti-war days in the 
1960's, and he's clearly in the "everything America does is wrong; they 
are always the villain," camp.

Best, R.E.F.

----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.

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I am sorry, I meant to say: "'I' would like to think, not 'it' would like to 
think..."

Adieu

Jimmy

Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary 
Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
   -- Benjamin Franklin




>From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
>Subject: Re: Just need to say
>Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2001 12:21:01 -0400
>
>I don't think the US government would simply bomb the hell out of another
>country to make the American Psyche feel good. If we engage in some sort of
>military action, it would like to think that it is because we have good
>reason.
>
>Adieu
>
>Jimmy
>
>
>Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary
>Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
>   -- Benjamin Franklin
>
>
>
>
>>From: "Brian Doucette" <bid@psouth.net>
>>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>>To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
>>Subject: Re: Just need to say
>>Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2001 11:59:30 -0400
>>
>>I did not mean to start such an argument, I was just posting an 
>>alternative
>>view to the situations at hand. I have family scattered about in all forms
>>of military and I do not make light the deaths of others. I fear there is
>>much worse to come. We need not make hasty decisions, which our goverment
>>is fond of doing, we need to make sure we get the person(s) responsible.
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp



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From: "C.T. Cusimano" <supert@redshift.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Halflings
Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2001 11:49:05 -0700
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

yeah man I have a soft spot for hobbits too man
cant wait for tlotr movie
----- Original Message -----
From: "Firesight" <wolfriderfiresight@hotmail.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2001 4:51 AM
Subject: Re: Halflings


> Yed all better watch out, if halfings have a starship!  Geez!  They would be
> the baddest things this side of Orion's Belt!
>
> Heh Heh Heh.  Go Halflings!  Hobbits are cool, but I like how D&D 3rd Ed. is
> trying to portray them (miniature humans).  They are the sweet deal!
>
> My Lev5 Halfling Rogue is the sweet deal!
>
> *-) Firesight *-)
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
> To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> Sent: Friday, September 14, 2001 4:25 PM
> Subject: RE: Halflings
>
>
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > > [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of James Silva
> > > Sent: Saturday, 15 September 2001 3:10 AM
> > > To: FEISTFANS-L
> > > Subject: Halflings
> > >
> > >
> > > Hello Ray, someone mentioned that there were halflngs/hobbits in the
> > > Midkemia game world that you deleated from the novels. Do you
> > > remember where
> > > the Halflings hailed from in Midkemia?
> > >
> >
> > Where they hailed from? Wouldn't that be the bridge of their starship
> > <grin>
> >
> > CW
> >
> >
>



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Subject: Worldcon 1988
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 08:02:10 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: John <john@crydee.com>
Subject: Worldcon 1988
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Ray ,

Back in the distant past of  you participated in a 'Round Robin' with 
others, such as Mike Resnick, Pat Cadigan, Jack Chalker, George Alec 
Effinger, David Gerrold, for Worldcon 88

Entitled "The Nolacon Visitation"

Any memory of the event  ?

Just bought a copy of the program from Mike Resnick to add to my 
collection :)
-- 
John

john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.

Raymond E Feist Ring
http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 07:17:31 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Worldcon 1988
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On Sunday, September 16, 2001, at 12:02 AM, John wrote:

> Ray ,
>
> Back in the distant past of  you participated in a 'Round Robin' with 
> others, such as Mike Resnick, Pat Cadigan, Jack Chalker, George Alec 
> Effinger, David Gerrold, for Worldcon 88
>
> Entitled "The Nolacon Visitation"
>
> Any memory of the event  ?
>
> Just bought a copy of the program from Mike Resnick to add to my 
> collection :)
> -- John
>
> john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
> http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.
>
> Raymond E Feist Ring
> http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm
>
>

My memories of New Orleans include a killer brunch Sunday Morning at 
Brennen's, and dancing until the wee hours on a Riverboat Bantam secured 
for the party, drinking way too much good wine and eating way too much 
good food.

Remember convention programming after thirteen years?  You're kidding, 
right?

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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References: <001301c13d53$10dbba60$2100a8c0@PENGELLEY.COM> <OE443ByS8ln8DcVZmUE00005dc6@hotmail.com> <001a01c13e17$18a32700$480ce4d8@redshift.com>
Subject: Re: Halflings
Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 09:59:55 -0300
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*** EOOH ***
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From: "Firesight" <wolfriderfiresight@hotmail.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Halflings
Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 09:59:55 -0300
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According to Thrid Ed. Hobbits are not the same as Haflings anymore.  They
are miniatures humans (basicaly) in thrid edition, instead of the very
short, pudgy, hairy-fotted creatures, or Tolkien's world.

I'm all for Haflings.  THough Hobbits are cool too!

*-) Firesight *-)

----- Original Message -----
From: "C.T. Cusimano" <supert@redshift.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2001 3:49 PM
Subject: Re: Halflings


> yeah man I have a soft spot for hobbits too man
> cant wait for tlotr movie
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Firesight" <wolfriderfiresight@hotmail.com>
> To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2001 4:51 AM
> Subject: Re: Halflings
>
>
> > Yed all better watch out, if halfings have a starship!  Geez!  They would
> be
> > the baddest things this side of Orion's Belt!
> >
> > Heh Heh Heh.  Go Halflings!  Hobbits are cool, but I like how D&D 3rd Ed.
> is
> > trying to portray them (miniature humans).  They are the sweet deal!
> >
> > My Lev5 Halfling Rogue is the sweet deal!
> >
> > *-) Firesight *-)
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
> > To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> > Sent: Friday, September 14, 2001 4:25 PM
> > Subject: RE: Halflings
> >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > > > [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of James Silva
> > > > Sent: Saturday, 15 September 2001 3:10 AM
> > > > To: FEISTFANS-L
> > > > Subject: Halflings
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Hello Ray, someone mentioned that there were halflngs/hobbits in the
> > > > Midkemia game world that you deleated from the novels. Do you
> > > > remember where
> > > > the Halflings hailed from in Midkemia?
> > > >
> > >
> > > Where they hailed from? Wouldn't that be the bridge of their starship
> > > <grin>
> > >
> > > CW
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>



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Subject: Re: Worldcon 1988
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 18:04:26 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: John <john@crydee.com>
Subject: Re: Worldcon 1988
User-Agent: Turnpike/6.00-Beta-8-U (<x5sqXV$6+zj$GDJXMMY4QwhIW3>)
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Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com> writes
>
>My memories of New Orleans include a killer brunch Sunday Morning at 
>Brennen's, and dancing until the wee hours on a Riverboat Bantam 
>secured for the party, drinking way too much good wine and eating way 
>too much good food.
>
>Remember convention programming after thirteen years?  You're kidding, 
>right?
I didn't think you would remember the minor points, though the important 
things like food and drink stick :)
>
One thing you may remember , was it related to publicising one of the 
books, maybe Faerie Tale

-- 
John

john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.

Raymond E Feist Ring
http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm



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Subject: Re: Halflings
References: <001301c13d53$10dbba60$2100a8c0@PENGELLEY.COM> <OE443ByS8ln8DcVZmUE00005dc6@hotmail.com> <001a01c13e17$18a32700$480ce4d8@redshift.com> <OE52AzrCH6yHDnSxsku00008c29@hotmail.com>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 10:15:10 -0700
From: Carl Dershem <dershem@home.com>
Organization: Project Selene
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Halflings
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Firesight wrote:
> 
> According to Thrid Ed. Hobbits are not the same as Haflings anymore.  They
> are miniatures humans (basicaly) in thrid edition, instead of the very
> short, pudgy, hairy-fotted creatures, or Tolkien's world.
> 
> I'm all for Haflings.  THough Hobbits are cool too!
> 
> *-) Firesight *-)

That's the problem with corporate writing - you must not offend... 
bleah.

In my game world (well on its way to d20 publishing) Halflings are
noticeably diferent from the other species.  If you just want more
humans, after all, why not just have more humans?

cd



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Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 10:35:16 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Worldcon 1988
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On Sunday, September 16, 2001, at 10:04 AM, John wrote:

> Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com> writes
>>
>> My memories of New Orleans include a killer brunch Sunday Morning at 
>> Brennen's, and dancing until the wee hours on a Riverboat Bantam 
>> secured for the party, drinking way too much good wine and eating way 
>> too much good food.
>>
>> Remember convention programming after thirteen years?  You're kidding, 
>> right?
> I didn't think you would remember the minor points, though the 
> important things like food and drink stick :)
>>
> One thing you may remember , was it related to publicising one of the 
> books, maybe Faerie Tale
>

No.  The big Faerie Tale push came later at World Fantasy in Nashville.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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References: <001301c13d53$10dbba60$2100a8c0@PENGELLEY.COM> <OE443ByS8ln8DcVZmUE00005dc6@hotmail.com> <001a01c13e17$18a32700$480ce4d8@redshift.com> <OE52AzrCH6yHDnSxsku00008c29@hotmail.com> <3BA4DE1E.CB1AE809@home.com>
Subject: Re: Halflings
Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 20:23:48 -0300
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From: "Firesight" <wolfriderfiresight@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re: Halflings
Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 20:23:48 -0300
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Think they simply wanted to get away from Tolkien's Haflings, and into
something of their own.  Maybe that's wrong, but woudl be a good reason to
change Halflings in the D&D universe.

*-) Firesight *-)

----- Original Message -----
From: "Carl Dershem" <dershem@home.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2001 2:15 PM
Subject: Re: Halflings


> Firesight wrote:
> >
> > According to Thrid Ed. Hobbits are not the same as Haflings anymore. They
> > are miniatures humans (basicaly) in thrid edition, instead of the very
> > short, pudgy, hairy-fotted creatures, or Tolkien's world.
> >
> > I'm all for Haflings.  THough Hobbits are cool too!
> >
> > *-) Firesight *-)
>
> That's the problem with corporate writing - you must not offend...
> bleah.
>
> In my game world (well on its way to d20 publishing) Halflings are
> noticeably diferent from the other species.  If you just want more
> humans, after all, why not just have more humans?
>
> cd
>
>



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From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
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Subject: RE: Halflings
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 07:47:21 +0800
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From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Halflings
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 07:47:21 +0800
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I think the point was if you're gonna change them, be a little more
creative. If they are just miniature humans what is the point - you may
as well have more humans is the way I understood Carl's comments.

CW

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu 
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Firesight
> Sent: Monday, 17 September 2001 7:24 AM
> To: FEISTFANS-L
> Subject: Re: Halflings
> 
> 
> Think they simply wanted to get away from Tolkien's Haflings, and into
> something of their own.  Maybe that's wrong, but woudl be a 
> good reason to
> change Halflings in the D&D universe.
> 
> *-) Firesight *-)
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Carl Dershem" <dershem@home.com>
> To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2001 2:15 PM
> Subject: Re: Halflings
> 
> 
> > Firesight wrote:
> > >
> > > According to Thrid Ed. Hobbits are not the same as 
> Haflings anymore.
> They
> > > are miniatures humans (basicaly) in thrid edition, 
> instead of the very
> > > short, pudgy, hairy-fotted creatures, or Tolkien's world.
> > >
> > > I'm all for Haflings.  THough Hobbits are cool too!
> > >
> > > *-) Firesight *-)
> >
> > That's the problem with corporate writing - you must not offend...
> > bleah.
> >
> > In my game world (well on its way to d20 publishing) Halflings are
> > noticeably diferent from the other species.  If you just want more
> > humans, after all, why not just have more humans?
> >
> > cd
> >
> >
> 



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From: "Jason Mulligan" <sulimo@bigpond.net.au>
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On 16/09/2001 at 8:23 PM Firesight wrote:

>Think they simply wanted to get away from Tolkien's Haflings, and into
>something of their own.  Maybe that's wrong, but woudl be a good reason to
>change Halflings in the D&D universe.

Yeah. They took a step towards the Kender. I have no problem using different 
types of halflings, but in worlds where they have been established as psuedo 
hobbits (like the default world, Greyhawk) I really dont like this retroactive 
changing. Thankfully I can reverse the changes in my home games. Still I dont 
like it much. Same with a few other of the changes to make it 'cool'.

'



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From: Carl Dershem <dershem@home.com>
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David Pengelley wrote:
> 
> I think the point was if you're gonna change them, be a little more
> creative. If they are just miniature humans what is the point - you may
> as well have more humans is the way I understood Carl's comments.

Yup.

cd



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From: Larry Siegel <larry@psihawk.com>
Subject: Re: Worldcon 1988
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 23:59:57 -0400
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Larry Siegel <larry@psihawk.com>
Subject: Re: Worldcon 1988
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

At 10:35 AM 9/16/01 -0700, you wrote:

>On Sunday, September 16, 2001, at 10:04 AM, John wrote:
>
>>>
>>>Remember convention programming after thirteen years?  You're kidding, 
>>>right?
>>I didn't think you would remember the minor points, though the important 
>>things like food and drink stick :)
>>One thing you may remember , was it related to publicising one of the 
>>books, maybe Faerie Tale
>
>No.  The big Faerie Tale push came later at World Fantasy in Nashville.
>
>Best, R.E.F.

Ray....

I think you crushed his hopes.... I think he was hoping thats what it was 
from :)

--
Larry (PsiHawk)
--
PsiHawk's Home Page
     http://www.psihawk.com
--
Raymond E Feist FAQ Page
     http://www.psihawk.com/feist



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 21:35:09 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Worldcon 1988
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Sunday, September 16, 2001, at 08:59 PM, Larry Siegel wrote:

> At 10:35 AM 9/16/01 -0700, you wrote:
>
>> On Sunday, September 16, 2001, at 10:04 AM, John wrote:
>>
>>>>
>>>> Remember convention programming after thirteen years?  You're 
>>>> kidding, right?
>>> I didn't think you would remember the minor points, though the 
>>> important things like food and drink stick :)
>>> One thing you may remember , was it related to publicising one of the 
>>> books, maybe Faerie Tale
>>
>> No.  The big Faerie Tale push came later at World Fantasy in Nashville.
>>
>> Best, R.E.F.
>
> Ray....
>
> I think you crushed his hopes.... I think he was hoping thats what it 
> was from :)
>

Whatever (as my daughter says. <g>)

Worldcon in NO was just an excuse to go and party.  I don't usually like 
Worldcons, but I'd travel back to another on in New Orleans or (if they 
ever gave one) in Las Vegas in a minute. <g>

Best,R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 06:24:11 -0700
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From: Max Haghighi <maxhag@pacbell.net>
Subject: RE: Worldcon 1988
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 06:24:11 -0700
From: Max Haghighi <maxhag@pacbell.net>
Subject: RE: Worldcon 1988
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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Ray I am going to Vegas in two weeks, want to go? :>

Max

-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Raymond Feist
>Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2001 9:35 PM
>To: FEISTFANS-L
>Subject: Re: Worldcon 1988
>
>
>
>On Sunday, September 16, 2001, at 08:59 PM, Larry Siegel wrote:
>
>> At 10:35 AM 9/16/01 -0700, you wrote:
>>
>>> On Sunday, September 16, 2001, at 10:04 AM, John wrote:
>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Remember convention programming after thirteen years?  You're 
>>>>> kidding, right?
>>>> I didn't think you would remember the minor points, though the 
>>>> important things like food and drink stick :)
>>>> One thing you may remember , was it related to publicising one of the 
>>>> books, maybe Faerie Tale
>>>
>>> No.  The big Faerie Tale push came later at World Fantasy in Nashville.
>>>
>>> Best, R.E.F.
>>
>> Ray....
>>
>> I think you crushed his hopes.... I think he was hoping thats what it 
>> was from :)
>>
>
>Whatever (as my daughter says. <g>)
>
>Worldcon in NO was just an excuse to go and party.  I don't usually like 
>Worldcons, but I'd travel back to another on in New Orleans or (if they 
>ever gave one) in Las Vegas in a minute. <g>
>
>Best,R.E.F.
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
>stupidity.
>
>

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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 09:36:53 -0400
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Larry Siegel <larry@psihawk.com>
Subject: RE: Worldcon 1988
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At 06:24 AM 9/17/01 -0700, you wrote:
>Ray I am going to Vegas in two weeks, want to go? :>
>
>Max

Actually... if the future holds true to plans, I will be in LV for New Years... 



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Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 10:12:27 EDT
Subject: Midkemian Evolution
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*** EOOH ***
From: Smenick@aol.com
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 10:12:27 EDT
Subject: Midkemian Evolution
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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I have a question. Does Midkemia age or advance technologically? We have 
discussed here before why there isn't any gunpowder on Midkemia (magic). And 
it seems that as time passes new knowledge of spells and the like are found. 
So my question is does Midkemian evolution stand still? Not in time towards 
the inhabitants but rather towards science and industry. So will Midkemia 
1000 years from now hvae better trade carts or steam motors? Or are they 
stuck at the Feudal or Reninsannce era? I hope i made this clear enough.

Sean

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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 07:23:57 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Worldcon 1988
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On Monday, September 17, 2001, at 06:24 AM, Max Haghighi wrote:

> Ray I am going to Vegas in two weeks, want to go? :>
>
> Max
>
Actually, Max, I'd love to, but time and circumstances don't permit.

And, truth to tell, if I was going, it would be with a lady friend. <g>

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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From: "Donal K. Fellows" <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
In-reply-to: <12b.4855223.28d75ecb@aol.com> (Smenick@aol.com)
Subject: Re: Midkemian Evolution
References:  <12b.4855223.28d75ecb@aol.com>
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Donal K. Fellows" <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Midkemian Evolution
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 15:41:17 +0100
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Smenick@aol.com
> I have a question. Does Midkemia age or advance technologically? We
> have discussed here before why there isn't any gunpowder on Midkemia
> (magic). And it seems that as time passes new knowledge of spells
> and the like are found.  So my question is does Midkemian evolution
> stand still? Not in time towards the inhabitants but rather towards
> science and industry. So will Midkemia 1000 years from now hvae
> better trade carts or steam motors? Or are they stuck at the Feudal
> or Reninsannce era? I hope i made this clear enough.

I've asked this before; IIRC, there isn't the same dynamic for change.
For example, there is no Agricultural Revolution because you can
achieve better results by praying to the correct deities, and
similarly for the rates of survival to adulthood (which also means
that families will tend to be smaller.)  A consequence of that is that
there is less population pressure, particularly in the cities.  And it
is in cities where much technological development would probably take
place.

The incidence of Really Large Wars won't help either; quite apart from
the sheer number of people killed in them[*] it also goes quite a long
way towards stopping the Kingdom from getting all colonial with the
likes of Novindus (nobody has the tech advantage of gunpowder as you
point out, and everyone's got horses, so conquest is *much* harder.)
Which removes another large impetus towards change.

Furthermore, many of the smart people who would otherwise be
technologists of various kinds concentrate on magical tech (new spells
and artefacts) or religion (which can have a scientific basis there.)
You have to be careful that you are not excluding large sources of
advances by neglecting them - I have no idea how durable they are in
comparison with the way tech knowledge has accumulated on Earth though.

Question: Are steam engines permitted by the gods on Midkemia?  Is the
main reason we don't see them the lack of a Trevithick or Newcomen to
invent them, or are they prohibited like gunpowder?  (They also need a
substantial tech investment to set going.)  Would the steam engine
have been invented on Earth (as anything other than a curiosity)
without the experience of people with gun and cannon manufacture?

I wish my knowledge of history was better so that I was more able to
pick out possible social differences that result in a comparative lack
of tech advancement on Midkemia.  Mind you, it is not as if there is
no advancement at all.  Compare how things were in Crydee at the
beginning of Magician with the situation about a lifetime later in
Krondor in RoaMP; even allowing for the fact that Crydee was a real
backwater and Krondor a substantial and important city, a lot had
happened in around seventy years...

Donal.
[* And because of lower birth rates, that's more serious. ]
-- 
Donal K. Fellows, Department of Computer Science, University of Manchester, UK.
(work) fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk     Tel: +44-161-275-6137  (preferred email addr.)
(home) donal@ugglan.demon.co.uk  Tel: +44-1274-401017   Mobile: +44-7957-298955
http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~fellowsd/  (Don't quote my .sig; I've seen it before!)



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 09:03:18 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Midkemian Evolution
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On Monday, September 17, 2001, at 07:12 AM, Smenick@aol.com wrote:

> I have a question. Does Midkemia age or advance technologically? We 
> have discussed here before why there isn't any gunpowder on Midkemia 
> (magic). And it seems that as time passes new knowledge of spells and 
> the like are found. So my question is does Midkemian evolution stand 
> still? Not in time towards the inhabitants but rather towards science 
> and industry. So will Midkemia 1000 years from now hvae better trade 
> carts or steam motors? Or are they stuck at the Feudal or Reninsannce 
> era? I hope i made this clear enough.
>
> Sean
>

For the sake of my work, they stand still more or less.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.

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*** EOOH ***
From: "Andrew Scott" <a.sc0tt@home.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Cho-ja questions for Ray
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 22:55:50 -0700
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<Empire series Spoiler space>


.



.



.



.

Ok, I've read through the empire series a few times and was wondering
if there was anything that inspired you fro the cho-ja in
general. Also, did you always have the magician Cho-ja in mind when
they were first shown in Magician or was that added later specifically
for the empire trilogy (If so was it your idea or Janny Wurts's)?

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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 21:12:44 +0300
From: Ziad El-Hajj <pilgrim@inco.com.lb>
To: Feist Fans <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Books and terrorism
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Hi all
I've been away from the list for three weeks, as I was taking a holiday
in Kenya. It's a very beautiful country, and I advise anyone who's not
been there to think about it.
It's also an ex-English colony, so I was finally (finally!) able to find
REF books. I bought the Empire trilogy, the (up to now) Krondor trilogy,
and should get the Serpentwar by mid-Octobre, if things go well.  So, I
would have all Ray's books, and be a happy man :)

Now, to the more serious things at hand.
First of all, allow me to present to everyone, *as an Arab*, my
sincerest condoleances for what last week's tragedy.
I want everyone to understand this was said with not a hint of irony. In
such circumstances nationality is irrelevant. People are dead. That is
all and should be all that matters.
It makes me sorry that people are so blinded by their hatred that they
go and perpetrate more senseless acts of violence.
It's easy when you see a hundred people celebrating to think that the
millions you don't see also are. Fanatics (of any kind, religious as
well as other) are always the easiest to see, because precisely they are
fanatics, and it's always too easy to think they represent a majority.
I'd like to thank Andrea for putting things in perspective, twice. It's
always a pleasure to know that some people can make the distinction.
I hope what happened last week never happens again, in *any* country.

Ziad

PS: Ray, I'm sorry for violating your suggestion, but I felt that as an
Arab I had to make my point clear.



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Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 23:59:36 -0700
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From: Max Haghighi <maxhag@pacbell.net>
Subject: RE: Worldcon 1988
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 23:59:36 -0700
From: Max Haghighi <maxhag@pacbell.net>
Subject: RE: Worldcon 1988
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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LOL Ray!!!

Actually there will be about 30 of us there and half of them are pretty
ladies :>.


Max

-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Raymond Feist
>Sent: Monday, September 17, 2001 7:24 AM
>To: FEISTFANS-L
>Subject: Re: Worldcon 1988
>
>
>
>On Monday, September 17, 2001, at 06:24 AM, Max Haghighi wrote:
>
>> Ray I am going to Vegas in two weeks, want to go? :>
>>
>> Max
>>
>Actually, Max, I'd love to, but time and circumstances don't permit.
>
>And, truth to tell, if I was going, it would be with a lady friend. <g>
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
>stupidity.
>
>

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From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Worldcon 1988
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 15:16:33 +0800
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No, I think Ray was speaking of "The Goddess" - not just any pretty
lady. 

I'll come though <grin> except I'm in Australia which is going to make
it hard for me to get there <sigh> :)

CW


> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu 
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Max Haghighi
> Sent: Tuesday, 18 September 2001 3:00 PM
> To: FEISTFANS-L
> Subject: RE: Worldcon 1988
> 
> 
> LOL Ray!!!
> 
> Actually there will be about 30 of us there and half of them 
> are pretty
> ladies :>.
> 
> 
> Max
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Raymond Feist
> Sent: Monday, September 17, 2001 7:24 AM
> To: FEISTFANS-L
> Subject: Re: Worldcon 1988
> 
> 
> 
> On Monday, September 17, 2001, at 06:24 AM, Max Haghighi wrote:
> 
> > Ray I am going to Vegas in two weeks, want to go? :>
> >
> > Max
> >
> Actually, Max, I'd love to, but time and circumstances don't permit.
> 
> And, truth to tell, if I was going, it would be with a lady 
> friend. <g>
> 
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
> 
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
> stupidity.
> 



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Subject: Re:Books and terrorism
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Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 10:26:15 +0200
Subject: Re:Books and terrorism
From: "Sylvain Guehl" <fenyxkell@demo.xandmail.com>
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Welcome back Ziad, old friend :)

I hope eveything's going fine for you.

I just bought Honoured Enemy this week end but I won't start it 
before a month I guess.

Ray, that leads me to a question. Will the "Legends of the Riftwar" 
books be totally undependent between them ? I mean, could I for 
example read them in any order ? Starting with Jimmy the Hand for 
example, before HE ? And, is there any sight of the overall story you 
developped in the other epic books ? For example, will you drop any 
clue about the Valheru topic or Nalar or whatever, as we see in TOG ? 
(Leading the question to : do you suppose the reader to have read the 
Riftwar Legends when you'll start the Conclave, for example).

Thanks for your time.

Syl



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Subject: Re: Roleplaying in Midkemia questions
Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 18:09:08 +0800
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Ben Lloyd" <benlloyd@wn.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Roleplaying in Midkemia questions
Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 18:09:08 +0800
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Who is Dannis?

-----------
Ben Lloyd
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jason Mulligan" <sulimo@bigpond.net.au>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Friday, September 07, 2001 7:58 AM
Subject: Roleplaying in Midkemia questions


> Doing some thinking about running my own RPG in Midkemia a few
> questions have come up.
>
> Firstly, I've been toying with the idea of setting it in the years
> beteween the end of 'Darkness at Sethanon' and the start of 'Prince
> of the Blood' rather than the time-period of the published RPG
> materials. Too this end I've been thinking about constructing a
> Kingdom timeline, given that I've never seen years (or months or
> days for that matter - given this I assume they are the same as
> ours, not that it would make sense given the source of our names for
> days and months) mentioned.  So, I was thinking of making the
> calendar start at the crowning of Dannis (although I am unsure
> whether the reference to Lyam being crowned 750 years after Dannis
> refers to Dannis crowning or dannis' death).
>
> Secondly, looking through the Midkemia Press production Towns of the
> Outlands, I noticed in one section it has a group of Hobbits
> occupying any inn. Is this an abberation, or did Halflings exist in
> the time period of the original Midkemia game?  > >



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Subject: Bringing Books to Life
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I was just bursting to mention a recent trip to my nearest city, Darwin.
Anyway, in this place, Adelaide River, there is a street called 'Silverton'.
I get a kick out of seeing it whenever I pass, and I like to think of it as
Silverthorn. You know, as you do.

Another thing which is quite OT; but I was clicking about a magic website
the other day, when I came across a magic trick by someone who had the email
address @cornell.edu. I thought it was a nice coincidence.
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
Est Sularis Oth Mithas



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Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 21:47:47 +1000
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On 16/09/2001 at 6:09 PM Ben Lloyd wrote:

>Who is Dannis?

Dannis is the first ConDoin King of Rillanon. Dunno how he became king 
though. Whether thru violence or other means.

Speaking of the old Kings, I'm wondering if it has been revealed why Delong 
was known as 'The Great'.

t



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 06:39:01 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Books and terrorism
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On Tuesday, September 18, 2001, at 01:26 AM, Sylvain Guehl wrote:

> Welcome back Ziad, old friend :)
>
> I hope eveything's going fine for you.
>
> I just bought Honoured Enemy this week end but I won't start it
> before a month I guess.
>
> Ray, that leads me to a question. Will the "Legends of the Riftwar"
> books be totally undependent between them ? I mean, could I for
> example read them in any order ? Starting with Jimmy the Hand for
> example, before HE ? And, is there any sight of the overall story you
> developped in the other epic books ? For example, will you drop any
> clue about the Valheru topic or Nalar or whatever, as we see in TOG ?
> (Leading the question to : do you suppose the reader to have read the
> Riftwar Legends when you'll start the Conclave, for example).
>
> Thanks for your time.
>
> Syl
>
>

You can read them in any order, though it's obvious that they mean a bit 
more if one has read the Riftwar Saga first.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 06:41:23 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Cho-ja questions for Ray
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On Monday, September 17, 2001, at 10:55 PM, Andrew Scott wrote:

> <Empire series Spoiler space>
>  
>  
> .
>  
>  
>  
> .
>  
>  
>  
> .
>  
>  
>  
> .
>  
> Ok, I've read through the empire series a few times and was wondering 
> if there was anything that inspired you fro the cho-ja in general. 
> Also, did you always have the magician Cho-ja in mind when they were 
> first shown in Magician or was that added later specifically for the 
> empire trilogy (If so was it your idea or Janny Wurts's)?

They were my idea, but not until the Empire trilogy.  And the execution 
of how they were portrayed and the city of Chakahal was 100% Janny.

Best, R.E.F.

---

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.

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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 06:40:25 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Roleplaying in Midkemia questions
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On Tuesday, September 18, 2001, at 04:47 AM, Jason Mulligan wrote:

> On 16/09/2001 at 6:09 PM Ben Lloyd wrote:
>
>> Who is Dannis?
>
> Dannis is the first ConDoin King of Rillanon. Dunno how he became king
> though. Whether thru violence or other means.
>
> Speaking of the old Kings, I'm wondering if it has been revealed why 
> Delong
> was known as 'The Great'.
>
> t
>
>

It was mentioned in Magician.  He's called The Great because he was the 
first conDoin king to conquer a portion of the mainland. Bas-Tyra, to be 
exact.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Subject: Re: Cho-ja questions for Ray
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*** EOOH ***
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From: "James Culshaw" <culshaja@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re: Cho-ja questions for Ray
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 14:56:10 +0100
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Which book is the city of Chakahal in?

James :-)
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: Raymond Feist 
>To: FEISTFANS-L 
>Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2001 2:41 PM
>Subject: Re: Cho-ja questions for Ray
>
>
>On Monday, September 17, 2001, at 10:55 PM, Andrew Scott wrote:
>
>
>><Empire series Spoiler space>
>> 
>> 
>>.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>.
>> 
>>Ok, I've read through the empire series a few times and was wondering if there was anything that inspired you fro the cho-ja in general. Also, did you always have the magician Cho-ja in mind when they were first shown in Magician or was that added later specifically for the empire trilogy (If so was it your idea or Janny Wurts's)?
>>
>
>They were my idea, but not until the Empire trilogy. And the execution of how they were portrayed and the city of Chakahal was 100% Janny.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>
>---
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by stupidity.

1, edited,,
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 15:59:53 +0200
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Kenneth Jones <killkenny@thos.co.za>
Subject: Re: Cho-ja questions for Ray
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Mistress of the Empire (great book!!!!!!!!!!!)

At 02:56 PM 9/18/01 +0100, you wrote:
>Which book is the city of Chakahal in?
>
>James :-)
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <mailto:raymond@bittersea.com>Raymond Feist
>To: <mailto:FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>FEISTFANS-L
>Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2001 2:41 PM
>Subject: Re: Cho-ja questions for Ray
>
>On Monday, September 17, 2001, at 10:55 PM, Andrew Scott wrote:
>
><?fontfamily><?param Arial><?smaller><Empire series Spoiler 
>space><?/smaller><?/fontfamily>
>
>
><?fontfamily><?param Arial><?smaller>.<?/smaller><?/fontfamily>
>
>
>
><?fontfamily><?param Arial><?smaller>.<?/smaller><?/fontfamily>
>
>
>
><?fontfamily><?param Arial><?smaller>.<?/smaller><?/fontfamily>
>
>
>
><?fontfamily><?param Arial><?smaller>.<?/smaller><?/fontfamily>
>
><?fontfamily><?param Arial><?smaller>Ok, I've read through the empire 
>series a few times and was wondering if there was anything that inspired 
>you fro the cho-ja in general. Also, did you always have the magician 
>Cho-ja in mind when they were first shown in Magician or was that added 
>later specifically for the empire trilogy (If so was it your idea or Janny 
>Wurts's)?<?/smaller><?/fontfamily>
>
>
>They were my idea, but not until the Empire trilogy. And the execution of 
>how they were portrayed and the city of Chakahal was 100% Janny.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>
>---
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
>stupidity.

1,,
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sorry 'bout the html tags. Don't know why that happened



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Raymond Feist wrote:
> 
> It was mentioned in Magician.  He's called The Great because he was the
> first conDoin king to conquer a portion of the mainland. Bas-Tyra, to be
> exact.

More curiousity here :)

Do you plan on writing anything that takes place before the first
Riftwar anytime soon? Like historical or anything, something about the
first conDoin, etc?
And do you plan to just keep moving things along a few years (or
decades) at a time until you eventually reach the "present" time that is
used in the RPG material? :)

Craig J. Ries



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 13:07:13 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Roleplaying in Midkemia questions
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On Tuesday, September 18, 2001, at 11:31 AM, Craig J. Ries wrote:

> Raymond Feist wrote:
>>
>> It was mentioned in Magician.  He's called The Great because he was the
>> first conDoin king to conquer a portion of the mainland. Bas-Tyra, to 
>> be
>> exact.
>
> More curiousity here :)
>
> Do you plan on writing anything that takes place before the first
> Riftwar anytime soon? Like historical or anything, something about the
> first conDoin, etc?

No.

> And do you plan to just keep moving things along a few years (or
> decades) at a time until you eventually reach the "present" time that is
> used in the RPG material? :)
>

I doubt I'll get that far up the time line.  I expect to max out about 
the time I write the Last Riftwar series.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.

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To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
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Subject: Re: Moving on
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 15:42:31 -0500
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Jeffrey Flower" <chronos@teamut.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Moving on
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 15:42:31 -0500
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I have absolutely no idea why I got this thread so late, but I lived in
Poway for 12 years and I love San Diego.

The Brazilian Restuarant down by the Convention center is great.  I lived in
Portugal for two years as I served a mission for the LDS Church and I ate
all kinds of portuguese food.  I LOVE IT.  I am on the other end of the US
right now in the Navy, living in Pensacola, but I still love good food, so
if anyone knows any great retuarants here in norhtern florida, please pass
them my way.  I just moved here.

Jeffrey Flower
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joel Davis" <divinebear@yahoo.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2001 8:37 PM
Subject: Re: Moving on


> --- Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com> wrote:
>
> > To help with the healing and
> > getting over the
> > shock, some places need to return to normalcy as
> > soon as possible, while
> > other venues need to continue to provide a place to
> > express outrage,
> > fear, grief, and concern.
>
> Amen, Mr. Feist.
>
> As a writer, does working within the constraints of
> the Midkemian history and background limit you in any
> way?
>
> If you hadn't worked with the Midkemia group, what
> direction do you believe your work would have taken
> ultimately? Would you have gravitated more or less
> towards the more fantastic elements found in your
> writings?
>
> Has there been any negative aspects to using the
> Midkemian background in your work?
>
> And, more mundanely, have you tried the Brazilian
> steak house in San Diego near the convention center?
> :)
> I'll have to assume it's still there because I haven't
> been to the city since July of 2000.
>
> That's what my wife and I miss most about not living
> in Yuma, AZ, any more. We were spoiled with San Diego
> (and Carlsbad and Julian) so close.
>
> Best,
>
> Joel Davis
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> =====
> Do you grok?
>
> __________________________________________________
> Terrorist Attacks on U.S. - How can you help?
> Donate cash, emergency relief information
> http://dailynews.yahoo.com/fc/US/Emergency_Information/
>
>
>



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 14:57:08 -0600
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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Raymond Feist wrote:
> 
> I doubt I'll get that far up the time line. I expect to max out about
> the time I write the Last Riftwar series.

Well, the way you're going, you could write a dozen Riftwars or more :)

Craig J. Ries



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From: "Brian Blair" <bsblair@comwares.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: OT: Restaurants (Was RE: Moving on)
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 17:16:28 -0500
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Brian Blair" <bsblair@comwares.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: OT: Restaurants (Was RE: Moving on)
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 17:16:28 -0500
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Jeffrey,

About an hour east of Pensacola on Highway 98 is a resort called Sandestin.
If you like steak, there is an excellent steakhouse called Seagars inside
the resort.  This past summer was the first time my wife and I went to this
restaurant since it opened a few years ago.  Boy do I wish I had started
going there when it first opened.  It has moved up to the top of my list of
steak places.  There is another restaurant at the resort called the Elephant
Walk..the dishes are a little extreme for my tastes (I'm a meat & potatos
kind of guy), but I hear it has excellent seafood dishes.  There are many
other good restaurants in the Destin area as well.  I don't live there (I'm
in Paris, IL), but my family owns a condominium at Sandestin, and we have
been going there for almost 10 years.  One of the things I always look
forward to is the great food!

One other place I can recommend (if you happen to be in Chicago) is a
steakhouse called Magnum's.  The food is excellent, the portions very
generous, and the atmosphere is great.  Anyway, that's my two cents on the
subject.


Brian B.
Paris, IL




-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Jeffrey Flower
>Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2001 3:43 PM
>To: FEISTFANS-L
>Subject: Re: Moving on
>
>
>I have absolutely no idea why I got this thread so late, but I lived in
>Poway for 12 years and I love San Diego.
>
>The Brazilian Restuarant down by the Convention center is great.  I lived in
>Portugal for two years as I served a mission for the LDS Church and I ate
>all kinds of portuguese food.  I LOVE IT.  I am on the other end of the US
>right now in the Navy, living in Pensacola, but I still love good food, so
>if anyone knows any great retuarants here in norhtern florida, please pass
>them my way.  I just moved here.
>
>Jeffrey Flower
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Joel Davis" <divinebear@yahoo.com>
>To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
>Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2001 8:37 PM
>Subject: Re: Moving on
>
>
>> --- Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com> wrote:
>>
>> > To help with the healing and
>> > getting over the
>> > shock, some places need to return to normalcy as
>> > soon as possible, while
>> > other venues need to continue to provide a place to
>> > express outrage,
>> > fear, grief, and concern.
>>
>> Amen, Mr. Feist.
>>
>> As a writer, does working within the constraints of
>> the Midkemian history and background limit you in any
>> way?
>>
>> If you hadn't worked with the Midkemia group, what
>> direction do you believe your work would have taken
>> ultimately? Would you have gravitated more or less
>> towards the more fantastic elements found in your
>> writings?
>>
>> Has there been any negative aspects to using the
>> Midkemian background in your work?
>>
>> And, more mundanely, have you tried the Brazilian
>> steak house in San Diego near the convention center?
>> :)
>> I'll have to assume it's still there because I haven't
>> been to the city since July of 2000.
>>
>> That's what my wife and I miss most about not living
>> in Yuma, AZ, any more. We were spoiled with San Diego
>> (and Carlsbad and Julian) so close.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Joel Davis
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> =====
>> Do you grok?
>>
>> __________________________________________________
>> Terrorist Attacks on U.S. - How can you help?
>> Donate cash, emergency relief information
>> http://dailynews.yahoo.com/fc/US/Emergency_Information/
>>
>>
>>
>
>

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Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 09:24:20 +1000
From: "Jason Mulligan" <sulimo@bigpond.net.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Roleplaying in Midkemia questions
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On 18/09/2001 at 1:07 PM Raymond Feist wrote:

>On Tuesday, September 18, 2001, at 11:31 AM, Craig J. Ries wrote:
>
>> Raymond Feist wrote:
>>>
>>> It was mentioned in Magician.  He's called The Great because he was the
>>> first conDoin king to conquer a portion of the mainland. Bas-Tyra, to 
>>> be
>>> exact.
>>
>> More curiousity here :)
>>
>> Do you plan on writing anything that takes place before the first
>> Riftwar anytime soon? Like historical or anything, something about the
>> first conDoin, etc?
>
>No.

That is ashame. Although I gues you could cover some of that ground with 
a Midkemian encyclopedia.




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Subject: For BAK music lovers
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Subject: For BAK music lovers
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For those who, like me, loved the music soundtrack from Betrayal At 
Krondor, you may be interested in this URL :

http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/199/flute_and_guitar.html

This is some free mp3 of celtic guitar/flute duets. Wonderful. 
Exactly the same kind of music as "My kingdom mine" etc... Really 
enjoyable.

Syl



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Subject: Re: Roleplaying in Midkemia questions
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Roberts" <jroberts6@vtown.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Roleplaying in Midkemia questions
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 19:29:37 +1000
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----- Original Message -----
>From: Raymond Feist
>To: FEISTFANS-L
>Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2001 6:07 AM
>Subject: Re: Roleplaying in Midkemia questions
>
>
>On Tuesday, September 18, 2001, at 11:31 AM, Craig J. Ries wrote:
>
>>
>>Raymond Feist wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>It was mentioned in Magician. He's called The Great because he was the
>>>first conDoin king to conquer a portion of the mainland. Bas-Tyra, to be
>>>exact.
>>>
>>
>>More curiousity here :)
>>
>>Do you plan on writing anything that takes place before the first
>>Riftwar anytime soon? Like historical or anything, something about the
>>first conDoin, etc?
>>
>
>No.
>
>>
>>And do you plan to just keep moving things along a few years (or
>>decades) at a time until you eventually reach the "present" time that is
>>used in the RPG material? :)
>>
>
>
>I doubt I'll get that far up the time line. I expect to max out about the
>time I write the Last Riftwar series.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
>stupidity.

    Will it be after this time that you will write that sci-fi story you
have had churning in the back of your mind? "The Sain Glass Lady" I believe
it was called.
It sounds like a very interesting idea, and to be honest I'm looking forward
to reading it (if it ever gets written).

Have A Great Day

Jamie



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 08:53:32 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Roleplaying in Midkemia questions
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On Wednesday, September 19, 2001, at 02:29 AM, James Roberts wrote:

>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Raymond Feist
> To: FEISTFANS-L
> Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2001 6:07 AM
> Subject: Re: Roleplaying in Midkemia questions
>
>
> On Tuesday, September 18, 2001, at 11:31 AM, Craig J. Ries wrote:
>
>
> Raymond Feist wrote:
>
>
> It was mentioned in Magician. He's called The Great because he was the
> first conDoin king to conquer a portion of the mainland. Bas-Tyra, to be
> exact.
>
>
> More curiousity here :)
>
> Do you plan on writing anything that takes place before the first
> Riftwar anytime soon? Like historical or anything, something about the
> first conDoin, etc?
>
>
> No.
>
>
> And do you plan to just keep moving things along a few years (or
> decades) at a time until you eventually reach the "present" time that is
> used in the RPG material? :)
>
>
>
> I doubt I'll get that far up the time line. I expect to max out about 
> the
> time I write the Last Riftwar series.
>
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
>
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
> stupidity.
>
>     Will it be after this time that you will write that sci-fi story you
> have had churning in the back of your mind? "The Sain Glass Lady" I 
> believe
> it was called.
> It sounds like a very interesting idea, and to be honest I'm looking 
> forward
> to reading it (if it ever gets written).

Jigsaw Lady, actually.  I'd love to find the time to write that one.  
Maybe in a year or so.

Best, R.E.F.

----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.

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Subject: First Semi-Whenever Poll
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Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2001 10:36:09 +0100
To: feistfans-l@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: First Semi-Whenever Poll
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Yo.

I've done a poll.  It's up.  Give it a whirl.

http://www.ferkel.co.uk/cgi/poll/poll.cgi?ctxt=feist

Have fun.  Answer truthfully.  For comments,
complaints or requests, use this address:

mailto:poll_fei@ferkel.co.uk 

Ray, I've put blocks in to stop the children from 
playing make-believe.  Let me know if you want to
take the poll, and I'll give you the keys.

rip



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Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 13:16:02 +0100
To: feistfans-l@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: re: First Semi-Whenever Poll
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Yah,

so:  preliminary, duplicates not removed, some guesses 
made because of problems with the answers available, 
back-of-the-napkin results.

Of those that have responded, (remember 'we', 'us', 'you'
etc only refer to those that have responded (60 +/-), not 
to the list as a whole)...

41% are 18-24 years old
36% are 25-30 years old
and <i>86%</i> of us were male.  Go figure.

61% have never been married.  83% have no children
(5 of you have 2 or more children, including only
one set of twins)

46% of us have dogs.

42% are from North America,
19% are from Western Europe,
14% are from the Antipodes (however, due to some 
 difficulty with the word "Antipodes" that should
 probably be about 8% higher.  I've adjusted the 
 database to make it clear.)
One person checked Antarctica?  Really?

There are four 'Yes - Other (ask)' marks under
pets.  What did I miss?  Insects?

44% of you collect books, 3 of us collect weapons...
and one of you lot collect AOL Signup CDs.  Three
of you collect something not specified, any hints?

14% of us have driven our cars, naked.

60% are for the legalization of drugs to some extent
or other.

85% have not served in the Military.  Two of us
are/were Officers and five were enlisted.

There were four PhDs (and one more working towards),
There was one MA/MSc (and five more working towards).
Professionally, 31% are students, 19% are computer
software (!! I need to change my job) and 14%
'Lawyer/Doctor/CPA/etc'.

61% of you only speak one language, I'm assuming that
would be English.  29% of you are bilingual (2 of you
were brought up bilingual) and 10% of us are trilingual.
If the brought-up-bilinguals and the brought-up-trilingual
do not receive the "Bilingual Families' Newsletter" let
me know and I'll put in you contact with their subscription
people.

One of you speaks an African language, two of you know
sign. Three out of four of us can write at least some sort
of computer code.  Seven of us have had our pictures
taken in a drugstore photobooth in less than the expected
amount of clothing.

One person has got to name a new species (Genus + Specific
Epithet, in the animal kingdom).

49% of the respondants believe (and 49% of the respondants
do not believe) in ghosts.  One of you is a fence sitter.
On the other hand, 92.4% believe in 'ET', but only 18.8%
believe in the Loch Ness Monster.

Magician: 45.6%
ADaS:     12.2%
tKB:       7.0%
5 others:  5.2%

rip
-- 
http://www.ferkel.co.uk/cgi/poll/poll.cgi?ctxt=feist

Have fun.  Answer truthfully.  For comments,
complaints or requests, use this address:

mailto:poll_fei@ferkel.co.uk 



1, edited,,
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Subject: RE: First Semi-Whenever Poll
Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 08:04:49 -0700
Message-ID: <59C1ACFC618C6148AA1B10B87FF34CD7018BF2E3@sun.slnpb.sitelite.com>
Thread-Topic: First Semi-Whenever Poll
Thread-Index: AcFCl85pR++Rxu2lQQeXWLshDhfgdgAFuFUA
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From: "Russell Teeter" <rteeter@sitelite.com>
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*** EOOH ***
content-class: urn:content-classes:message
Subject: RE: First Semi-Whenever Poll
Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 08:04:49 -0700
Thread-Topic: First Semi-Whenever Poll
Thread-Index: AcFCl85pR++Rxu2lQQeXWLshDhfgdgAFuFUA
From: "Russell Teeter" <rteeter@sitelite.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

As for the animal - other, I have fish, which wasn't on the list.

Russell Teeter

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Richard Williamson [mailto:richard.williamson@windriver.com]
> Sent: Friday, September 21, 2001 5:16 AM
> To: FEISTFANS-L
> Subject: re: First Semi-Whenever Poll
> 
> 
> Yah,
> 
> so:  preliminary, duplicates not removed, some guesses 
> made because of problems with the answers available, 
> back-of-the-napkin results.
> 
> Of those that have responded, (remember 'we', 'us', 'you'
> etc only refer to those that have responded (60 +/-), not 
> to the list as a whole)...
> 
> 41% are 18-24 years old
> 36% are 25-30 years old
> and <i>86%</i> of us were male.  Go figure.
> 
> 61% have never been married.  83% have no children
> (5 of you have 2 or more children, including only
> one set of twins)
> 
> 46% of us have dogs.
> 
> 42% are from North America,
> 19% are from Western Europe,
> 14% are from the Antipodes (however, due to some 
>  difficulty with the word "Antipodes" that should
>  probably be about 8% higher.  I've adjusted the 
>  database to make it clear.)
> One person checked Antarctica?  Really?
> 
> There are four 'Yes - Other (ask)' marks under
> pets.  What did I miss?  Insects?
> 
> 44% of you collect books, 3 of us collect weapons...
> and one of you lot collect AOL Signup CDs.  Three
> of you collect something not specified, any hints?
> 
> 14% of us have driven our cars, naked.
> 
> 60% are for the legalization of drugs to some extent
> or other.
> 
> 85% have not served in the Military.  Two of us
> are/were Officers and five were enlisted.
> 
> There were four PhDs (and one more working towards),
> There was one MA/MSc (and five more working towards).
> Professionally, 31% are students, 19% are computer
> software (!! I need to change my job) and 14%
> 'Lawyer/Doctor/CPA/etc'.
> 
> 61% of you only speak one language, I'm assuming that
> would be English.  29% of you are bilingual (2 of you
> were brought up bilingual) and 10% of us are trilingual.
> If the brought-up-bilinguals and the brought-up-trilingual
> do not receive the "Bilingual Families' Newsletter" let
> me know and I'll put in you contact with their subscription
> people.
> 
> One of you speaks an African language, two of you know
> sign. Three out of four of us can write at least some sort
> of computer code.  Seven of us have had our pictures
> taken in a drugstore photobooth in less than the expected
> amount of clothing.
> 
> One person has got to name a new species (Genus + Specific
> Epithet, in the animal kingdom).
> 
> 49% of the respondants believe (and 49% of the respondants
> do not believe) in ghosts.  One of you is a fence sitter.
> On the other hand, 92.4% believe in 'ET', but only 18.8%
> believe in the Loch Ness Monster.
> 
> Magician: 45.6%
> ADaS:     12.2%
> tKB:       7.0%
> 5 others:  5.2%
> 
> rip
> -- 
> http://www.ferkel.co.uk/cgi/poll/poll.cgi?ctxt=feist
> 
> Have fun.  Answer truthfully.  For comments,
> complaints or requests, use this address:
> 
> mailto:poll_fei@ferkel.co.uk 
> 
> 

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Subject: OT: Test
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Barker" <heechee@softhome.net>
To: feistfans-l@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: OT: Test
Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2001 22:35:32 +1000
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I think I've been unsubscribed...



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From: "Cameron Duncan" <cduncan@amadeus.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Test
Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2001 22:54:05 +1000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Cameron Duncan" <cduncan@amadeus.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Test
Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2001 22:54:05 +1000
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No James, it's just very, very quiet I think?

A little off thread topic -

Ray, 
You might be interested to hear that the Brisbane Lions
(formerly Fitzroy) just won their semi final in a most convincing game
and play in their first ever grand final next week.

Cameron

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of James Barker
> Sent: Saturday, September 22, 2001 22:36
> To: FEISTFANS-L
> Subject: OT: Test
> 
> 
> I think I've been unsubscribed...
> 
> 



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2001 08:47:23 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Test
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On Saturday, September 22, 2001, at 05:54 AM, Cameron Duncan wrote:

> No James, it's just very, very quiet I think?
>
> A little off thread topic -
>
> Ray,
> You might be interested to hear that the Brisbane Lions
> (formerly Fitzroy) just won their semi final in a most convincing game
> and play in their first ever grand final next week.
>
> Cameron
>

Thanks.  I have a Brisie Lions shirt hanging in my closet.  Ugly 
colors.  I love it.

Best,R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Test
Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2001 12:42:21 -0500
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<drops pin, listens to echo>

Nope, it is just a wee bit quiet in here of late.  Not that I am in
any rush to start a topic...since I can't get a hold of HE.  <mumble
grumble gripe>

-James

----- Original Message -----
From: "James Barker" <heechee@softhome.net>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <feistfans-l@cornell.edu>
Sent: Saturday, September 22, 2001 7:35 AM
Subject: OT: Test


> I think I've been unsubscribed...
>
>



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Subject: Re: Test
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From: Valheru89@aol.com
Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2001 15:36:28 EDT
Subject: Re: Test
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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Has anyone read Dune. I have to read a Science Fiction book for school, so I 
picked Dune since I liked the T.V. special, and the game.
           
                 -Chance

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Subject: Re: Test
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From: "LaughingFrog" <badeand.dk@mail.dk>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Test
Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2001 21:51:58 +0200
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yeah, i read the whole series some years back... and loved
them.. thinking of starting the "prelude" series by his son i
believe...

LaughingFrog
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: Valheru89@aol.com 
>To: FEISTFANS-L 
>Sent: Saturday, September 22, 2001 9:36 PM
>Subject: Re: Test
>
>
>Has anyone read Dune. I have to read a Science Fiction book for school, so I picked Dune since I liked the T.V. special, and the game. 
>	    
>		 -Chance 

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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2001 13:41:15 -0700
From: Carl Dershem <dershem@home.com>
Organization: Project Selene
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Test
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James Young wrote:
> 
> <drops pin, listens to echo>
> 
> Nope, it is just a wee bit quiet in here of late.  Not that I am in
> any rush to start a topic...since I can't get a hold of HE.  <mumble
> grumble gripe>

Hmmm...

Not having HE myself, I can't offer much in the way of interesting
commentary.  Let's see - we've done, sports, politics, religion, wine,
beer, operating systems, favorite books, favorite films, favorite
authors.  What subjects might be interesting to all, potentially
tie-able to Ray's stuff (not difficult, considering the breadth of his
ideas), and not overly susceptible to flame?

cd



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Subject: OT Dune was Re: Test
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Jason Martin" <res0b95g@verizon.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: OT Dune was Re: Test
Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2001 15:25:11 -0700
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I shouldn't respond to this, but I will.  Dune is a great series.  If
you read the first one then you should real all 6 of them! =)  Though
the fourth one drags a bit compared to the other 5.  Dune is a reread
for me every year.  I have read it for over 10 years and each time
there is something I get from it then before... The Mini Series and
Movie can not do it justice.  A true movie of Dune IMHO would take
atleast 8 hours to do it right and even then that is pushing it..
Anyhow read the series, and try the prequels by his son (Brian
Herbert) and Kevin J. Anderson  while not near as deep as Frank
Herbert could write, nonetheless (is that one word?) it's still a fun
read.

Jason

PS Saw Rock Star this week, I totally loved it since I love the big
hair bands of the 80's
"Mas Tequila!"
       Red Vodoo- Sammy Hagar
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: Valheru89@aol.com 
>To: FEISTFANS-L 
>Sent: Saturday, September 22, 2001 12:36 PM
>Subject: Re: Test
>
>
>Has anyone read Dune. I have to read a Science Fiction book for school, so I picked Dune since I liked the T.V. special, and the game. 
>	    
>		 -Chance 

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Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2001 17:41:10 -0700
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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: LAR <lds627@home.com>
Subject: Troubled times and good books
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Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2001 17:41:10 -0700
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: LAR <lds627@home.com>
Subject: Troubled times and good books
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Ray:

Just wanted to say thank you in an almost backhanded but heartfelt way. 
Having practically grown up on Wall St (Spent 13 years of my life working 
in and around the WTC.), I was pretty much devastated by the recent 
attacks, not to mention days of worry over friends and family. So, I did 
what I usually do when I need to get away from the world, I pick up a good 
book. In this case, oddly enough it was ROAMP. Somehow reading of  Roo's 
rise and the Kingdoms preparations for the great war yet to come brought me 
comfort. From my own professional life, I could relate to the goings on at 
Barretts, and Roo's worries for Erik parallel my own worries for my little 
sister currently on a navy cruiser in the gulf. At the very least, it 
reminded me not only that life goes on, but that there is an answer to 
senseless evil. I can only hope that despite the tragic losses, our own war 
ends as successfully.

Larry



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Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2001 18:22:52 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Troubled times and good books
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On Saturday, September 22, 2001, at 05:41 PM, LAR wrote:

> Ray:
>
> Just wanted to say thank you in an almost backhanded but heartfelt way. 
> Having practically grown up on Wall St (Spent 13 years of my life 
> working in and around the WTC.), I was pretty much devastated by the 
> recent attacks, not to mention days of worry over friends and family. 
> So, I did what I usually do when I need to get away from the world, I 
> pick up a good book. In this case, oddly enough it was ROAMP. Somehow 
> reading of  Roo's rise and the Kingdoms preparations for the great war 
> yet to come brought me comfort. From my own professional life, I could 
> relate to the goings on at Barretts, and Roo's worries for Erik 
> parallel my own worries for my little sister currently on a navy 
> cruiser in the gulf. At the very least, it reminded me not only that 
> life goes on, but that there is an answer to senseless evil. I can only 
> hope that despite the tragic losses, our own war ends as successfully.
>
> Larry
>
>

I'm glad to know the book provided you with a few moments of comfort.

I'll hold good thoughts for your sister's well being, as well as all our 
men and women going in harm's way.

Best,R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2001 20:14:25 -0600
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Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2001 20:14:25 -0600
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: feistfans-l@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: general comments about the books
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Spoiler space
!
!
!
!
!
!
!
!
!
!
!
!
!
!
!
!
!
!
!
!

First off, Ray, I'd just like to say, well, you're a bastard. But I
really mean that in the most heartfelt and positive way possible (or is
it? :)

The reason I say that is cause I still can't get over at how gutsy you
are with your characters. Example in point: Duke Arutha taking an arrow
in the neck, killing him instantly. I about called you a bastard aloud
:)
I love all of your characters, I just wish you weren't killing them off
so quickly or in such great numbers :)

Also (might wanna reply to this separately I suppose), do you have any
dates on when upcoming Riftwar novels are coming?

Craig J. Ries



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From: Paul Arzooman <soundcage@erols.com>
Subject: Re: OT Dune was Re: Test
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2001 22:14:10 -0400
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Paul Arzooman <soundcage@erols.com>
Subject: Re: OT Dune was Re: Test
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

At 03:25 PM 9/22/01 -0700, you wrote:
>I shouldn't respond to this, but I will.  Dune is a great series.  If you 
>read the first one then you should real all 6 of them! =)

**snipped**

>
>Jason


I've read the entire series once (including the "prequels") and Dune itself 
3 times.  Dune is a classic, a must read for any fan of quality SF.  I 
would speak of it almost in the same breath as Lord of the 
Rings...almost.  The immediate sequels ("Messiah" and "Children") are not 
up to the level of the first yet introduce some nice ideas and continue the 
story (whether it needs it or not).  In the next three ("God Emperor", 
"Heretics", "Chapterhouse") Herbert seems to have lost his focus 
somewhat.  These latter books are a mess, IMHO, and for the completist 
only.  The "prequels", on the other hand, are nothing but pure 
product.  I'll keep my opinions of Kevin Anderson's writing skills to 
myself.  YMMV, of course.

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From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: OT Dune was Re: Test
Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 13:42:52 +0800
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*** EOOH ***
From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: OT Dune was Re: Test
Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 13:42:52 +0800
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I read the Dune books years ago, but not all of them. I can't remember
which, it may have been the third or fourth (SPOLIER WARNING SPOILER
WARNING I think the harkonnen were sending fake uniforms to paul's kids
trying to kill them or something SPOILER OVER SPOILER OVER).
 
Ayways, I got to that particular one and it just seemd sooooo hard to
read that I stopped. And I have never picked up a Dune book since.
Definately read the first couple though at the very least.
 
CW

-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Paul Arzooman
>Sent: Sunday, 23 September 2001 10:14 AM
>To: FEISTFANS-L
>Subject: Re: OT Dune was Re: Test
>
>
>At 03:25 PM 9/22/01 -0700, you wrote:
>
>
>I shouldn't respond to this, but I will.  Dune is a great series.  If
>you read the first one then you should real all 6 of them! =) 
>
>
>**snipped**
>
>
>
>
>Jason
>
>
>
>I've read the entire series once (including the "prequels") and Dune
>itself 3 times.  Dune is a classic, a must read for any fan of quality
>SF.  I would speak of it almost in the same breath as Lord of the
>Rings...almost.  The immediate sequels ("Messiah" and "Children") are
>not up to the level of the first yet introduce some nice ideas and
>continue the story (whether it needs it or not).  In the next three
>("God Emperor", "Heretics", "Chapterhouse") Herbert seems to have lost
>his focus somewhat.  These latter books are a mess, IMHO, and for the
>completist only.  The "prequels", on the other hand, are nothing but
>pure product.  I'll keep my opinions of Kevin Anderson's writing skills
>to myself.  YMMV, of course.

1,,
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Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 03:17:04 -0600
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Subject: A writing question
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Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 03:17:04 -0600
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From: Wilblk <swrblack@MailAndNews.com>
Subject: A writing question
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Raymond,

I hope you don't mind answering a quick writing question for me. 
Several months ago, I posted a question about whether to use 
contractions or not. If I recall correctly, you stated that it's okay 
to use them in dialog but not in narration. I'm currently working on 
a science-fiction short story and one paragraph in particular is 
bothering me. I've got two contractions in it and can't find a way 
around them without it sounding stilted. Would you look over the 
paragraph and give me suggestions?  Since I don't know how you feel 
about someone posting any of their own writings up (I'm sure you 
don't want to see a whole story for legal reasons but a single 
paragraph?) I'm going to add a few spoiler lines to protect both of 
us if necessary.

If anyone else would like to comment on this, please respond to me 
offlist as this is off topic.

spoiler lines below





























I hope that's enough.


Here's the paragraph:

	Placing the glass on a wooden coaster on the corner of the 
table, he opened his pack of camel cigarettes and counted them. 
Fourteen. Wasn't there fifteen of them last night? Maybe Bill took 
one. No, he wasn't here yesterday. It was probably an alien. Those 
damn aliens seem to be everywhere these days.



Thanks,

Willard



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From: "Steven McCarthy" <steven@connect.ie>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: A writing question
Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 11:51:35 +0100
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Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: "Steven McCarthy" <steven@connect.ie>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: A writing question
Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 11:51:35 +0100
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Read the FAQ. Posting your own fiction is banned from this list.

Steve

"Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then
do it." -- Lazarus Long

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Wilblk
> Sent: 23 September 2001 10:17
>
> Since I don't know how you feel
> about someone posting any of their own writings up (I'm sure you
> don't want to see a whole story for legal reasons but a single
> paragraph?) I'm going to add a few spoiler lines to protect both of
> us if necessary.
>



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 08:36:20 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: A writing question
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Sunday, September 23, 2001, at 02:17 AM, Wilblk wrote:

> Raymond,
>
> I hope you don't mind answering a quick writing question for me. 
> Several months ago, I posted a question about whether to use 
> contractions or not. If I recall correctly, you stated that it's okay 
> to use them in dialog but not in narration. I'm currently working on a 
> science-fiction short story and one paragraph in particular is 
> bothering me. I've got two contractions in it and can't find a way 
> around them without it sounding stilted. Would you look over the 
> paragraph and give me suggestions?  Since I don't know how you feel 
> about someone posting any of their own writings up (I'm sure you don't 
> want to see a whole story for legal reasons but a single paragraph?) 
> I'm going to add a few spoiler lines to protect both of us if necessary.
>
> If anyone else would like to comment on this, please respond to me 
> offlist as this is off topic.
>
> spoiler lines below
>

Rules are not hard and fast in every case.

I think you need to look at which contractions you're using.  Some are 
less bothersome to the reader than others when used in narrative.

E-mail me the paragraph in question, and you tell me what you think the 
problem is.

Best,R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Ray,

Thanks for taking the time to help me out. here's the paragraph:

	Placing the glass on a wooden coaster on the corner of the 
table, he opened his pack of camel cigarettes and counted them. 
Fourteen. Wasn't there fifteen of them last night? Maybe Bill took 
one. No, he wasn't here yesterday. It was probably an alien. Those 
damn aliens seemed to be everywhere these days.

The only contraction is "wasn't" but it's in the paragraph twice. 
I've been trying to work on of them out so as not to be repetitive. 
I'm really not sure what wrong with this paragraph.

Thanks for any advice you can give. I know from experience that 
writing is not easy. But, you sure do make it look easy.  :)

Willard




>
>Rules are not hard and fast in every case.
>
>I think you need to look at which contractions you're using.  Some 
>are less bothersome to the reader than others when used in narrative.
>
>E-mail me the paragraph in question, and you tell me what you think 
>the problem is.
>
>Best,R.E.F.
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away 
>by stupidity.



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Everyone, please disregard this. Was supposed to be sent privately.

Sorry,

Willard



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Collect:
Empty wine bottles. Specifically must cost $5AU or less.


>From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: feistfans-l@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
>Subject: re: First Semi-Whenever Poll
>Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 13:16:02 +0100
>
>Yah,
>
>so:  preliminary, duplicates not removed, some guesses
>made because of problems with the answers available,
>back-of-the-napkin results.
>
>Of those that have responded, (remember 'we', 'us', 'you'
>etc only refer to those that have responded (60 +/-), not
>to the list as a whole)...
>
>41% are 18-24 years old
>36% are 25-30 years old
>and <i>86%</i> of us were male.  Go figure.
>
>61% have never been married.  83% have no children
>(5 of you have 2 or more children, including only
>one set of twins)
>
>46% of us have dogs.
>
>42% are from North America,
>19% are from Western Europe,
>14% are from the Antipodes (however, due to some
>  difficulty with the word "Antipodes" that should
>  probably be about 8% higher.  I've adjusted the
>  database to make it clear.)
>One person checked Antarctica?  Really?
>
>There are four 'Yes - Other (ask)' marks under
>pets.  What did I miss?  Insects?
>
>44% of you collect books, 3 of us collect weapons...
>and one of you lot collect AOL Signup CDs.  Three
>of you collect something not specified, any hints?
>
>14% of us have driven our cars, naked.
>
>60% are for the legalization of drugs to some extent
>or other.
>
>85% have not served in the Military.  Two of us
>are/were Officers and five were enlisted.
>
>There were four PhDs (and one more working towards),
>There was one MA/MSc (and five more working towards).
>Professionally, 31% are students, 19% are computer
>software (!! I need to change my job) and 14%
>'Lawyer/Doctor/CPA/etc'.
>
>61% of you only speak one language, I'm assuming that
>would be English.  29% of you are bilingual (2 of you
>were brought up bilingual) and 10% of us are trilingual.
>If the brought-up-bilinguals and the brought-up-trilingual
>do not receive the "Bilingual Families' Newsletter" let
>me know and I'll put in you contact with their subscription
>people.
>
>One of you speaks an African language, two of you know
>sign. Three out of four of us can write at least some sort
>of computer code.  Seven of us have had our pictures
>taken in a drugstore photobooth in less than the expected
>amount of clothing.
>
>One person has got to name a new species (Genus + Specific
>Epithet, in the animal kingdom).
>
>49% of the respondants believe (and 49% of the respondants
>do not believe) in ghosts.  One of you is a fence sitter.
>On the other hand, 92.4% believe in 'ET', but only 18.8%
>believe in the Loch Ness Monster.
>
>Magician: 45.6%
>ADaS:     12.2%
>tKB:       7.0%
>5 others:  5.2%
>
>rip
>--
>http://www.ferkel.co.uk/cgi/poll/poll.cgi?ctxt=feist
>
>Have fun.  Answer truthfully.  For comments,
>complaints or requests, use this address:
>
>mailto:poll_fei@ferkel.co.uk
>


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp



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Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 17:22:53 -0700
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: LAR <lds627@home.com>
Subject: Re: A writing question
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

At 02:22 PM 9/23/01 -0600, you wrote:
>Ray,
>
>Thanks for taking the time to help me out. here's the paragraph:
>
>         Placing the glass on a wooden coaster on the corner of the table, 
> he opened his pack of camel cigarettes and counted them. Fourteen. Wasn't 
> there fifteen of them last night? Maybe Bill took one. No, he wasn't here 
> yesterday. It was probably an alien. Those damn aliens seemed to be 
> everywhere these days.
>
>The only contraction is "wasn't" but it's in the paragraph twice. I've 
>been trying to work on of them out so as not to be repetitive. I'm really 
>not sure what wrong with this paragraph.
>
>Thanks for any advice you can give. I know from experience that writing is 
>not easy. But, you sure do make it look easy.  :)
>
>Willard
>

I think one problem would be Tense,. the first contraction should be 
Weren't, not Wasn't. And you are correct, were they not here yesterday> 
would suck <G> But you could say, I could have sworn there were 15 here 
last night....

Larry
Who is in no way a pro and does not even play one on the internet



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From: "Sonia Tabe" <sonia@nt-tech.com.au>
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Subject: Can anybody help me? (as in right now!)
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 10:48:41 +0930
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From: "Sonia Tabe" <sonia@nt-tech.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Can anybody help me? (as in right now!)
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 10:48:41 +0930
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

The mark of a good fantasy is where an ordinary person develops into a
hero/heroine through their deeds on the completion of a quest. Discuss.

How is this true for Magician? Thanks for any help =)

Sonia
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
Est Sularis Oth Mithas



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From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
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Hmmm, I collect weapons (swords and daggers mostly), cats (live,
stuffed, pictures, calendars, etc), certain books (Feist in
particular), and tardigrades (sorry private science joke).

-James

> Collect:
> Empty wine bottles. Specifically must cost $5AU or less.



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Hello Wilblk,

    And also hello to everyone. I just joined the list this morning.

    I wanted to comment about Wilblk's statement of contractions not
    being [generally] permitted in narration. As a writer I've often
    written in that style, and it does indeed work, however I should
    point out that I effectively cheated by having one of the main
    protagonists doing the narrative. The novel I'm referring to is a
    parody, and being able to write the narratives using the
    character's speech patterns was a wonderful and incredibly
    expressive (and fun) tool.

    
    Ps: Its/It's/ARGHHH!!! :)


Best regards,

   Kurgan                            mailto:Kurgan@LittleBlueRoom.com



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Subject: Re: Can anybody help me? (as in right now!)
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Hay Sonia,

Sounds like a year 12 English lit question ????

Following the story of Pug and Thomas could be interrupted to fit the
statement. Helping end the rift war being there quest (unbeknown to them) ?
they both overcome personal obstacles, grow as individuals though out the
story. The sacrifice each has made along the journey to where they end up
at the end of the novel being nowhere near where they started, Normally
defines a hero/heroine in most fantasy works.

Link it back to your own dreams/ambitions - we all want to excel, be better
than we are, be seen a certain way by the people in our lives this in turn
effects how we live our lives to a certain degree. There's so many parralls
you can draw on between what is real and what we read. Could be a reason
why fantasy is popular genre ?

don't want to help too much :)



The other side of the argument is that, an ordinary person/s developing
into a hero/heroine are not the only marks of a good fantasy - but it is a
constant theme in many works we all read, like a formula a romance novelist
follows, e.g.

Girl meets boy - love develops. Girls looses boy, several countries later
boy and girl overcome some obstacle and find love again, the end.
(rough idea, you know what I mean)

I guess some fantasy authors follow a formula, such as the statement you've
asked people to discuss ? e.g.

normal person - insert evil/family death/world in danger - person rises
above and through deeds/actions becomes hero/heroine.
(rough idea, you know what I mean).

sorry, i went off for a second. Take Ray's works, he doesn't rely on just
that statement, take the world Ray has built with his novels, the ordinary
characters who don't save the day - i think being able to deliver a entire
world to your readers to get lost in (while reading) is a mark of a good
fanasty work, I don't think you can some up Ray's work with just 2 lines
but you know where I'm going, there's so much going on, so much history
were prevy to as readers, I can't imagine how hard it would be to construct
such a thing, a world full of people/history. Everytime I pickup a new book
by Ray, I'am not hoping to read just another pug saves the world, rather
i'm interested in whats happening/has transpired to the world through the
eyes of different characters.

Just my 2 cents worth and hay I just read the stuff.

Regards,

Brad Krahe
SAP Business & Support Consultant
Allegiance Systems




>"Sonia Tabe" <sonia@nt-tech.com.au> on 24/09/2001 11:18:41
>
>Please respond to FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>
>To:   FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
>cc:    (bcc: Brad A Krahe/HCS)
>Subject:  Can anybody help me? (as in right now!)
>
>
>
>
>The mark of a good fantasy is where an ordinary person develops into a
>hero/heroine through their deeds on the completion of a quest. Discuss.
>
>How is this true for Magician? Thanks for any help =)
>
>Sonia
>*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
>Est Sularis Oth Mithas
>







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From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Can anybody help me? (as in right now)
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> The mark of a good fantasy is where an ordinary person develops into a
> hero/heroine through their deeds on the completion of a quest. Discuss.
> How is this true for Magician? Thanks for any help =)
> Sonia

Hmm, as an essay topic, you'd have to ask questions like "Is this the only
mark of good fantasy? Is there other concepts and ideas that make fantasy
good other than developments of the hero"

In relation to Magician, I think what makes it "good" is that Ray gets the
reader to empathise with the main characters. Pug and Tomas have
idiosyncrasies that the readers can identify with. The idea of a hero as
"an
ordinary guy or girl" appeals to us. Ray buts conflict after conflict in
the
way of the main characters and they eventually prevail. This appeals to
readers (well, it appeals to me.)

In relation to your question, IMOHO, yes a mark of good fantasy is the
development of the character after overcoming conflict after conflict. But
also, other factors make it good (appropriate character motivation,
themes,
style and many other things.

Hope that helps your brainstorming.



Thanks
Darragh
-=-=
www.iamtheporkfireman.com
[Email]: s356179@student.uq.edu.au [ICQ]: 114283262



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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu, <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
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At 10:48 AM 9/24/01 +0930, Sonia Tabe wrote:
>The mark of a good fantasy is where an ordinary person develops into a
>hero/heroine through their deeds on the completion of a quest. Discuss.
>
>How is this true for Magician? Thanks for any help =)
>
>Sonia
>*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
>Est Sularis Oth Mithas

I don't see how that would be the mark of a good or a bad fantasy, rather I 
believe that is a common plot in many if not MOST fantasy books. Both good 
AND bad. As to an ordinary person developing into a hero or heroine through 
their deeds, etc. Certainly that is true of both Pug and Tomas. But that 
alone is not what made it a good fantasy novel.

Larry



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From: Kurgan@LittleBlueRoom.com
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 01:46:04 -0500
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
To: Sonia Tabe <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Can anybody help me? (as in right now!)
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Hello Sonia,

ST> The mark of a good fantasy is where an ordinary person develops into a
ST> hero/heroine through their deeds on the completion of a quest. Discuss.

    Well, that can be true sometimes, and other times it can make for
    a boring read. It all depends on how it's handled. Some stories
    are wonderful with the slow progression of a 'normal' person
    overcoming insurmountable odds and rising to the occasion, but
    I've seen quite a few of those that were ludicrous and real
    sleepers. Stories with exceptional characters simply living up to
    the responsibility of their abilities can be excellent as well,
    although too many superheroes bashing everything in sight without
    ever breaking a sweat can be just as boring. It's all a matter of
    taste, I believe.
           Tad Williams's Memory, Sorrow, & Thorne books fit your
    description perfectly, though, and I loved those. I think you'd
    really enjoy them. C. J. Cherryh's Fortress series is very
    similar, but deals more with someone powerful trying desperately
    to never allow himself to use it. Again, a different take on it,
    but one that worked incredibly well.
        The Riftwar books are interesting because they each tend to
    follow a different path, and do it well. I've really loved the
    books, mostly in the Buccaneer/Prince of the Blood period, but do
    have reservations along the lines you've described. Pug, for
    instance, I really liked until he became enslaved and his focus
    and personality changed. Now I root for the bad guys when Pug's
    around, but all of the lesser characters are really well fleshed
    out and realistic. The final book of the Serpent War books,
    however, I must admit had me scratching my head and wondering what
    had just happened. If I had to guess I'd say editors for ahold of
    it and chopped out a LOT of material. That's my impression,
    anyway. I wouldn't at all be surprised if a writer's preferred
    edition of that one came out and it was split into two larger
    volumes, filling in a lot of unresolved sub-plots. Anyway, I've
    strayed, so I'll shut my trap now. :)


Best regards,

   Kurgan                            mailto:Kurgan@LittleBlueRoom.com



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Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 09:08:30 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: RE: First Semi-Whenever Poll
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At 08:04 AM 9/21/01 -0700, Russell Teeter wrote:

>As for the animal - other, I have fish, which wasn't on the list. 

*laughs* I -HATE- fish.    

It never even occurred to me that someone would treat having an
aquarium as 'collecting' fish.  

My own personality disorder got in the way of science...who'da 
thunk it.

rip



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Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 09:11:04 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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At 09:10 AM 9/24/01 +1000, Michael Glynn wrote:
>Collect:
>Empty wine bottles. Specifically must cost $5AU or less.


When they enter your collection are they still full? 
It takes up less space to collect just the labels ;->

rip



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From: "Donna M. Jaggard" <donna@arwen.org>
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From: "Donna M. Jaggard" <donna@arwen.org>
Organization: arwen.org
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 01:10:35 -0700
Subject: RE: First Semi-Whenever Poll
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> *laughs* I -HATE- fish.    

Tsk, rip! Fish are *good*! They're not very cuddly, but one of my 
siamese fighting fish will let me pet him... 
 
> It never even occurred to me that someone would treat having an
> aquarium as 'collecting' fish.  

what if I collect aquariums? I have three now... and only 5 fish. :)
 
-d



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Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 09:21:49 +0100
To: feistfans-l@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Poll--Apologies 
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Hi!

My heartfelt apologies to James Young.

James is the individual who sparked the questions about
'Genus + Specific Epithet' that are in poll.  In all the
other questions that were generated due to conversations
with other list denizens, I properly attributed the 
questions in question, even if it was to say that the
idea for the question came from someone else, rather
than the question itself.

James was a perfect gentleman and helped me set up the
questions themselves--given that I'm not a science guy
and didn't know the vocabulary.  He made sure that I
at least had that down pat before I took a whack at the
questions.

Sorry, James!

Richard



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From: "Donal K. Fellows" <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: First Semi-Whenever Poll
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 10:14:51 +0100
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"Donna M. Jaggard" <donna@arwen.org>
>> *laughs* I -HATE- fish.    
> Tsk, rip! Fish are *good*!

Especially fried with tartare sauce.  Or in seafood ramen.  Or baked
en croute.  Or...

Darn.  I'm hungry now and it is only mid-morning...  <eg>

Donal (Keralan fish curry is good too.)
-- 
Donal K. Fellows, Department of Computer Science, University of Manchester, UK.
(work) fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk     Tel: +44-161-275-6137  (preferred email addr.)
(home) donal@ugglan.demon.co.uk  Tel: +44-1274-401017   Mobile: +44-7957-298955
http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~fellowsd/  (Don't quote my .sig; I've seen it before!)



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References: <3BAE880B.22711.964DD4@localhost>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 10:53:41 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: First Semi-Whenever Poll
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At 10:14 AM 9/24/01 +0100, Donal K. Fellows wrote:
>"Donna M. Jaggard" <donna@arwen.org>
>>> *laughs* I -HATE- fish.    
>> Tsk, rip! Fish are *good*!

*shudders*

>Especially fried with tartare sauce.  Or in seafood ramen.  Or baked
>en croute.  Or...

Don't make me heave.  I really, really don't like fish.

rip



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*** EOOH ***
From: Michael Gibson <gibfish@gibbyco.freeserve.co.uk>
Subject: Re: First Semi-Whenever Poll
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 12:18:39 +0100 (GMT+01:00)
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"Donal K. FellowsMon, 24 Sep 2001 10:14:
> "Donna M. Jaggard" <donna@arwen.org>
> >> *laughs* I -HATE- fish.    
> > Tsk, rip! Fish are *good*!
> 
> Especially fried with tartare sauce.  Or in seafood ramen.  Or baked
> en croute.  Or...
> 
> Darn.  I'm hungry now and it is only mid-morning...  <eg>
> 
> Donal (Keralan fish curry is good too.)

Damn you! ;) I was hungry already, but now I'm /starving/.  Call me a
cannibal, but despite being a fish myself, I like eating them also.
Ah well, it's only a little while 'til lunch.

Mike,
Gibfish of the West




_______________________________________________________________________
FSmail - Get your free web-based email from Freeserve: www.fsmail.net





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Subject: OT:  Windows File Question...
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Jason Martin" <res0b95g@verizon.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: OT:  Windows File Question...
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 05:38:43 -0700
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Ok does anyone know what a SCam32.exe file is?  Its in my C:\windows\system
folder and I can not think of any programs that use it?  I'm hoping its not
a bad file or anything.  So if you have any input please let me know.  Right
now I have Zone Alarm blocking it.  but from what I could tell it was
sending out info of sometype.  Not that I have anything important on here,
but still nonetheless (love that word for some reason) I don't want anything
going out unless I do it...

Thanks,

Jason
"Mas Tequila!"
       Red Vodoo- Sammy Hagar



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Subject: Update
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Jason Martin" <res0b95g@verizon.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Update
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 05:49:21 -0700
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OK, did a quick search on the net and it looks like its a worm (DAMNIT) so
I'm running InnoculateIT personal edition to see if anything is corrupted.
Not sure where I would have picked this up, have not opened or done anything
where I could have gotten it from but then you never know.  I need to get it
removed, not sure how since its a hidden file and in use by windows.  Anyone
have any ideas on how to get rid of it?   Hopefully no one will get it from
me.

Thanks,

Jason


"Mas Tequila!"
       Red Vodoo- Sammy Hagar



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From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Windows File Question...
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 20:54:53 +0800
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*** EOOH ***
From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Windows File Question...
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 20:54:53 +0800
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

That would be a virii my friend

The SirCam virus is what I believe it is usually called and it comes in
many forms. For more details check this page

http://vil.nai.com/vil/virusSummary.asp?virus_k=99141

Have fun cleansing your system

CW

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu 
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Jason Martin
> Sent: Monday, 24 September 2001 8:39 PM
> To: FEISTFANS-L
> Subject: OT: Windows File Question...
> 
> 
> Ok does anyone know what a SCam32.exe file is?  Its in my 
> C:\windows\system
> folder and I can not think of any programs that use it?  I'm 
> hoping its not
> a bad file or anything.  So if you have any input please let 
> me know.  Right
> now I have Zone Alarm blocking it.  but from what I could tell it was
> sending out info of sometype.  Not that I have anything 
> important on here,
> but still nonetheless (love that word for some reason) I 
> don't want anything
> going out unless I do it...
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Jason
> "Mas Tequila!"
>        Red Vodoo- Sammy Hagar
> 



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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Andrea J Chee <andrea@bloodaxe.com>
Subject: Re: Update
References: <000701c144f7$5a51b680$65313c04@vz.dsl.genuity.net>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 14:12:20 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Andrea J Chee <andrea@bloodaxe.com>
Subject: Re: Update
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

In article <000701c144f7$5a51b680$65313c04@vz.dsl.genuity.net>, Jason
Martin <res0b95g@verizon.net> writes
>OK, did a quick search on the net and it looks like its a worm (DAMNIT) so
>I'm running InnoculateIT personal edition to see if anything is corrupted.
>Not sure where I would have picked this up, have not opened or done anything
>where I could have gotten it from but then you never know.  I need to get it
>removed, not sure how since its a hidden file and in use by windows.  Anyone
>have any ideas on how to get rid of it?   Hopefully no one will get it from
>me.

Let me guess. You received a very plausible email, possibly from a
friend, that said something like: "Hi! How are you? I send you this file
in order to have your advice. See you later. Thanks." Otherwise, you
have computer that's on a network and one of your work colleagues
received such a mail and opened it.

It had an attachment, which is infected with the SirCam worm.

More details and removal instructions can be found here:

http://www.symantec.com/avcenter/venc/data/w32.sircam.worm@mm.html

All antivirus software producers have SirCam covered by one of their
updates, so the odds are that you haven't updated your antivirus data in
a while. It would be a good idea to do so.

- ANDREA

-- 
  Get PAID for the emails you already send and receive! 
http://www.mailround.com/  Referrer: andrea@bloodaxe.com
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Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 14:46:32 +0100
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To: feistfans-l@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Last Chance on the Poll
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 14:46:32 +0100
To: feistfans-l@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Last Chance on the Poll
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Hello!

I'm going to 'close' the poll for new input, probably
at the end of the week.  At the moment about 20% of
the list subscribers have taken it (according to
Dan Lorey's helpful count:  553 less a couple 
doubly subscribed).  

So if you want to be counted, then point your
browser at:
http://www.ferkel.co.uk/cgi/poll/poll.cgi?ctxt=feist

One interesting datum is that only 1 in 8 of the 
respondents is female.  Is the list /that/ weighted
towards being male?

rip



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Subject: All good
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Jason Martin" <res0b95g@verizon.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: All good
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 06:53:47 -0700
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Ok, got it (SirCam) removed and everything looks back to normal.  Not sure
how long I had it and I'm just glad it didn't wipe my HD.  So thanks to
everyone who wrote and gave me some advice.  One of these days I'm going to
learn to start checking for viruses once a day or once a week.

Off to bed now.

Jason

"Mas Tequila!"
       Red Vodoo- Sammy Hagar



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>One interesting datum is that only 1 in 8 of the 
>respondents is female.  Is the list /that/ weighted
>towards being male?
 

Maybe I'm wrong, but I think the readers of the Fantasy genre are
actually more weighted towards male than female. Consequently this
would reflect on this list.

PJ
--

On Mon, 24 Sep 2001 14:46:32  
 Richard Williamson wrote:
>Hello!
>
>I'm going to 'close' the poll for new input, probably
>at the end of the week.  At the moment about 20% of
>the list subscribers have taken it (according to
>Dan Lorey's helpful count:  553 less a couple 
>doubly subscribed).  
>
>So if you want to be counted, then point your
>browser at:
>http://www.ferkel.co.uk/cgi/poll/poll.cgi?ctxt=feist
>
>
>rip
>
>


Make a difference, help support the relief efforts in the U.S.
http://clubs.lycos.com/live/events/september11.asp



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Subject: Re: Windows File Question...
References: <000b01c144f8$1c31f9e0$2100a8c0@Skynet>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 12:22:35 -0600
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Windows File Question...
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David Pengelley wrote:
> 
> That would be a virii my friend
> 
> The SirCam virus is what I believe it is usually called and it comes in
> many forms. For more details check this page
> 
> http://vil.nai.com/vil/virusSummary.asp?virus_k=99141
> 
> Have fun cleansing your system

I hate to go off topic, but since this was brought up, I have a question
as well: has anybody here ever received an attachment with the extension
".doc.com"?
Don't worry, I deleted it. I can't think of any good reason anybody
would need to receive a .com through their email, unless they don't
suspect it could be a virus or something.

Craig J. Ries



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From: "Diamond Joe" <diamondjoesmith@yahoo.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Windows File Question...
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 14:10:42 -0500
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*** EOOH ***
X-Apparently-From: <diamondjoesmith@yahoo.com>
From: "Diamond Joe" <diamondjoesmith@yahoo.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Windows File Question...
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 14:10:42 -0500
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

It's a virus. And when you run the virus scan, count yourself lucky if it
didn't hit your Rundll32.exe and your autoexec.bat files. It can't be
cleaned out of the file, and they need to be deleted.

the scam32.exe file can and should be deleted immediately.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Jason Martin
> Sent: September 24, 2001 7:39 AM
> To: FEISTFANS-L
> Subject: OT: Windows File Question...
>
>
> Ok does anyone know what a SCam32.exe file is?  Its in my
> C:\windows\system
> folder and I can not think of any programs that use it?  I'm
> hoping its not
> a bad file or anything.  So if you have any input please let me
> know.  Right
> now I have Zone Alarm blocking it.  but from what I could tell it was
> sending out info of sometype.  Not that I have anything important on here,
> but still nonetheless (love that word for some reason) I don't
> want anything
> going out unless I do it...
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jason
> "Mas Tequila!"
>        Red Vodoo- Sammy Hagar
>



_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com



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*** EOOH ***
From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: OT: Windows File Question...
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 03:14:28 +0800
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

The reason for that is if the person has "known extensions" hidden all
they will see is the .doc and think it a perfectly safe word document,
not an evil malicious executable .com file. People are stupid is the
basic premise of this plan. This is why MS felt the need to block any
type of executable attachment in Outlook XP. Fortunately a google search
came to my rescue and has disabled that "security" feature as I am
abundantly careful when it comes to attachments.

CW

Is it possible to be abundantly careful? Maybe that was the wrong
adjective <sigh>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu 
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Craig J. Ries
> Sent: Tuesday, 25 September 2001 2:23 AM
> To: FEISTFANS-L
> Subject: Re: Windows File Question...
> 
> 
> David Pengelley wrote:
> > 
> > That would be a virii my friend
> > 
> > The SirCam virus is what I believe it is usually called and 
> it comes in
> > many forms. For more details check this page
> > 
> > http://vil.nai.com/vil/virusSummary.asp?virus_k=99141
> > 
> > Have fun cleansing your system
> 
> I hate to go off topic, but since this was brought up, I have 
> a question
> as well: has anybody here ever received an attachment with 
> the extension
> ".doc.com"?
> Don't worry, I deleted it. I can't think of any good reason anybody
> would need to receive a .com through their email, unless they don't
> suspect it could be a virus or something.
> 
> Craig J. Ries
> 



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From: "Michael Gibson" <gibbyfish@yahoo.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: OT: Windows File Question...
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 20:19:04 +0100
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*** EOOH ***
X-Apparently-From: <gibbyfish@yahoo.com>
From: "Michael Gibson" <gibbyfish@yahoo.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: OT: Windows File Question...
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 20:19:04 +0100
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> David Pengelley wrote:
> >
> > That would be a virii my friend
> >
> > The SirCam virus is what I believe it is usually called and it comes in
> > many forms. For more details check this page
> >
> > http://vil.nai.com/vil/virusSummary.asp?virus_k=99141
> >
> > Have fun cleansing your system
>
> I hate to go off topic, but since this was brought up, I have a question
> as well: has anybody here ever received an attachment with the extension
> ".doc.com"?
> Don't worry, I deleted it. I can't think of any good reason anybody
> would need to receive a .com through their email, unless they don't
> suspect it could be a virus or something.

That would make sense - IIRC, Outlook/Express only show the first or last (can't
remember which) file name extension, so such a thing would be created with the
intention that people would think it was an MS Word doc.  Another way it is done
is sending a viral, ahem, visual basic script as a .vbs.txt (or .txt.vbs, I
can't remember).

Mike,
Gibfish of the West.                      Check out my forums at:
                                          http://www.tonrae.co.uk/forums/
"Wheels on fire, rolling down the road!
Best notify my next of kin, this wheel shall explode!"




_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com



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From: "Diamond Joe" <diamondjoesmith@yahoo.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Last Chance on the Poll
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 14:18:41 -0500
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*** EOOH ***
X-Apparently-From: <diamondjoesmith@yahoo.com>
From: "Diamond Joe" <diamondjoesmith@yahoo.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Last Chance on the Poll
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 14:18:41 -0500
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Hasn't seemed that weighted to me here on the list, but what do i know?
*shrugs* :)

Quick question, after i finished the poll, it said "Logged 3 answers" Now i
know i answered more questions than that, so either it's speaking of
something else entirely, or for some reason it dropped most of my answers.
Out of curiousity, which is it? :)

Joseph A. Smith

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Richard Williamson
> Sent: September 24, 2001 8:47 AM
> To: FEISTFANS-L
> Subject: Last Chance on the Poll
>
>
> Hello!
>
> I'm going to 'close' the poll for new input, probably
> at the end of the week.  At the moment about 20% of
> the list subscribers have taken it (according to
> Dan Lorey's helpful count:  553 less a couple
> doubly subscribed).
>
> So if you want to be counted, then point your
> browser at:
> http://www.ferkel.co.uk/cgi/poll/poll.cgi?ctxt=feist
>
> One interesting datum is that only 1 in 8 of the
> respondents is female.  Is the list /that/ weighted
> towards being male?
>
> rip
>



_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com



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To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
References: <CKEDKEIMLMHNIIAFIHGPGEBCCDAA.diamondjoesmith@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Last Chance on the Poll
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Julie Wootten" <wootten@xtra.co.nz>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Last Chance on the Poll
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 08:05:23 +1200
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> Quick question, after i finished the poll, it said "Logged 3 answers" Now
i
> know i answered more questions than that, so either it's speaking of
> something else entirely, or for some reason it dropped most of my answers.
> Out of curiousity, which is it? :)
>
> Joseph A. Smith

Logged 3 answers on that particular page.  Some pages would have been
"Logged 1 answer" etc, and many pages to the poll.

I wonder if the poll might have been more interesting if people had been
able to check more than one answer for some questions.  For example,
I collect swords also... but while that collection is only in double
figures,
my book collection is in quadruple, so the swords are well and truly
drowned out, even though the books are the more mundane with nothing
of particularly valuable about them barring the replacement cost.

Julie.



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Unsubscribe    

I WILL BE BACK!!!

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To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
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Subject: Re: First Semi-Whenever Poll
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: First Semi-Whenever Poll
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 19:26:56 -0500
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Good, Rip and I can go out for Burgers instead and leave these
people to their poisoning.  I'll take Mad Cow and E-Coli over
mercury and PCBs any day.

> >>> *laughs* I -HATE- fish.
> >> Tsk, rip! Fish are *good*!
>
> *shudders*
>
> >Especially fried with tartare sauce.  Or in seafood ramen.  Or baked
> >en croute.  Or...
>
> Don't make me heave.  I really, really don't like fish.
>
> rip
>



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Subject: Re: Poll--Apologies 
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 19:28:12 -0500
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Poll--Apologies 
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 19:28:12 -0500
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's alright.  Your forgiven on the grounds that I think the poll was
funny.

-James

----- Original Message -----

> Hi!
>
> My heartfelt apologies to James Young.
>
> James is the individual who sparked the questions about
> 'Genus + Specific Epithet' that are in poll.  In all the
> other questions that were generated due to conversations
> with other list denizens, I properly attributed the
> questions in question, even if it was to say that the
> idea for the question came from someone else, rather
> than the question itself.
>
> James was a perfect gentleman and helped me set up the
> questions themselves--given that I'm not a science guy
> and didn't know the vocabulary.  He made sure that I
> at least had that down pat before I took a whack at the
> questions.
>
> Sorry, James!
>
> Richard
>



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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: (no subject)
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 19:24:48 -0500
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Not if you don't figure out how to get off the list first. :P

-James

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <IceWarrior44@aol.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2001 5:24 PM
Subject: (no subject)


> Unsubscribe    
> 
> I WILL BE BACK!!!
> 



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Subject: Honoured Enemy U.S. Publishing?
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Ben H." <chronocrossed@home.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Honoured Enemy U.S. Publishing?
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 20:02:02 -0500
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Sorry if this has been asked before, but I am new to this list.

Does anyone know the current status of Honoured Enemy as to when it may be
released in stores here in the U.S.?

I remember hearing that Ray was having difficulties finding a U.S.
publisher.  Did he find one yet?

Any help would be appriciated.



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From: Allan Mills <milla@css.com.au>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" (FEISTFANS-L) <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Honoured Enemy U.S. Publishing?
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 11:15:58 +1000
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*** EOOH ***
From: Allan Mills <milla@css.com.au>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" (FEISTFANS-L) <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Honoured Enemy U.S. Publishing?
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 11:15:58 +1000
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 Ray hasn't announced a US publisher to my recollection. You don't need a
publisher anyway, you need a distributor. I gather that bookstores in the US
will eventually order it in from Europe if no US publisher eventuates. In
the meantime you can always order it from www.amazon.co.uk

 Allan

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ben H. [mailto:chronocrossed@home.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2001 11:02 AM
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Subject: Honoured Enemy U.S. Publishing?
> 
> 
> Sorry if this has been asked before, but I am new to this list.
> 
> Does anyone know the current status of Honoured Enemy as to 
> when it may be
> released in stores here in the U.S.?
> 
> I remember hearing that Ray was having difficulties finding a U.S.
> publisher.  Did he find one yet?
> 
> Any help would be appriciated.
> 
> 



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On Tue, 25 Sep 2001 11:15:58  
 Allan Mills wrote:
> Ray hasn't announced a US publisher to my recollection. You don't need a
>publisher anyway, you need a distributor. I gather that bookstores in the US
>will eventually order it in from Europe if no US publisher eventuates. In
>the meantime you can always order it from www.amazon.co.uk
>
> Allan
>

That is not exactly true. According to my favorite bookstore keeper,
they can't order books if they are not on their lists of distribution.
I know there are some bookstores who will do it, but the problem is
you may pay quite a bit for the transport. Best bet is Amazon.co.uk.
You will have it for the same price as you would in bookstores. I
think it cost me 3$ more that what I usually pay for one of Ray's
book. Not bad considering the waiting you would other wise have to do
:-)

Well all this is for Canada anyway. Maybe it's different in the US

PJ

>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Ben H. [mailto:chronocrossed@home.com]
>> Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2001 11:02 AM
>> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>> Subject: Honoured Enemy U.S. Publishing?
>> 
>> 
>> Sorry if this has been asked before, but I am new to this list.
>> 
>> Does anyone know the current status of Honoured Enemy as to 
>> when it may be
>> released in stores here in the U.S.?
>> 
>> I remember hearing that Ray was having difficulties finding a U.S.
>> publisher.  Did he find one yet?
>> 
>> Any help would be appriciated.
>> 
>> 
>
>


Make a difference, help support the relief efforts in the U.S.
http://clubs.lycos.com/live/events/september11.asp



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*** EOOH ***
From: "A Irving" <aignome@dingoblue.net.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: All good
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 15:06:23 +1000
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From: Jason Martin <res0b95g@verizon.net>
> Ok, got it (SirCam) removed and everything looks back to normal.  Not sure
> how long I had it and I'm just glad it didn't wipe my HD.  So thanks to
> everyone who wrote and gave me some advice.  One of these days I'm going to
> learn to start checking for viruses once a day or once a week.
>
> Off to bed now.
>
> Jason
It has a payload in october sometime, so luckily you got it before that
time. Then again there are now 5 variations of SirCam, which are all on
different dates/months. Once again, I hate Worms. If you use Outlook Express
you can a security patch to prevent it automatically loading VBScripts but
this worm fools you into thinking it is from a friend.



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Subject: Magician Anniversary Edition
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Chad Keffer" <feistfan@chadkeffer.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Magician Anniversary Edition
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 01:01:31 -0500
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A while back there was discussion of a 20 (or was it 25) year Anniversary
Edition of Magician being discussed.  There was even some polling on how
many list users would be interested in purchasing a limited release (leather
bound?) Anniversary Edition of Magician.  Anyway, do to my bad habit of
switching email addresses on a monthly basis, I missed the end of that
thread.  Can anyone tell me what the status or final word on that was?

Thanks,

Chad



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From: "Diamond Joe" <diamondjoesmith@yahoo.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Last Chance on the Poll
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 02:05:27 -0500
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X-Apparently-From: <diamondjoesmith@yahoo.com>
From: "Diamond Joe" <diamondjoesmith@yahoo.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Last Chance on the Poll
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 02:05:27 -0500
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> > Quick question, after i finished the poll, it said "Logged 3
> answers" Now
> i
> > know i answered more questions than that, so either it's speaking of
> > something else entirely, or for some reason it dropped most of
> my answers.
> > Out of curiousity, which is it? :)
> >
> > Joseph A. Smith
>
> Logged 3 answers on that particular page.  Some pages would have been
> "Logged 1 answer" etc, and many pages to the poll.

Ah, guess i just didn't notice that till the end of the poll...

> I wonder if the poll might have been more interesting if people had been
> able to check more than one answer for some questions.  For example,
> I collect swords also... but while that collection is only in double
> figures,
> my book collection is in quadruple, so the swords are well and truly
> drowned out, even though the books are the more mundane with nothing
> of particularly valuable about them barring the replacement cost.
>
> Julie.

Same here, I mean, i know a few of the programming languages that were shown
there, plus 2 besides. It's not like i really know any one more than
another, seeing as how i'm not a programmer and don't know any one language
intimately....

Joe



_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com



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Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 07:42:00 GMT
Subject: Re: Magician Anniversary Edition
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From: "Mark Tonkin" <shadowfire@chariot.net.au>
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Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 07:42:00 GMT
Subject: Re: Magician Anniversary Edition
X-User-Info: 203.202.88.90

>A while back there was discussion of a 20 (or was it 25) year Anniversary
>Edition of Magician being discussed.  There was even some polling on how
>many list users would be interested in purchasing a limited release (leather

>bound?) Anniversary Edition of Magician.  Anyway, do to my bad habit of
>switching email addresses on a monthly basis, I missed the end of that
>thread.  Can anyone tell me what the status or final word on that was?
>
>Thanks,
>
>Chad
>

Last I heard there was going to be a 20th Anniversary edition of Magician in
Hardback in the UK & Australia only.  It was not going to have anything new
from the Author's Preferred edition except maybe new coverart.  I am very disappointed
that there isn't going to be a leather bound limited edition :-(.

- MARK



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Subject: Re: Last Chance on the Poll
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Julie Wootten" <wootten@xtra.co.nz>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Last Chance on the Poll
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 19:46:42 +1200
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Oh yeah!  You forgot FORTRAN, Rip!  ::prod::
(Showing my age?  Maybe.)

Julie.

> Same here, I mean, i know a few of the programming languages that were shown
> there, plus 2 besides. It's not like i really know any one more than
> another, seeing as how i'm not a programmer and don't know any one language
> intimately....
>
> Joe



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*** EOOH ***
From: "Donal K. Fellows" <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Last Chance on the Poll
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 09:46:52 +0100
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"Julie Wootten" <wootten@xtra.co.nz>
> Oh yeah!  You forgot FORTRAN, Rip!  ::prod::

Perhaps that was deliberate?  <eg>

Donal.
-- 
Donal K. Fellows, Department of Computer Science, University of Manchester, UK.
(work) fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk     Tel: +44-161-275-6137  (preferred email addr.)
(home) donal@ugglan.demon.co.uk  Tel: +44-1274-401017   Mobile: +44-7957-298955
http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~fellowsd/  (Don't quote my .sig; I've seen it before!)



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At 07:46 PM 9/25/01 +1200, Julie Wootten wrote:
>Oh yeah!  You forgot FORTRAN, Rip!  ::prod::
>(Showing my age?  Maybe.)
>
>Julie.
>
> > Same here, I mean, i know a few of the programming languages that were
>shown
> > there, plus 2 besides. It's not like i really know any one more than
> > another, seeing as how i'm not a programmer and don't know any one
>language
> > intimately....
> >
> > Joe

He also left out FORTH, ADA, RPG and a slew of others.

Larry
Not showing his age so much as the fact that he has been in computers since 
he was 8 (31 years, OK so maybe I AM Showing my age).



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Subject: Re: Last Chance on the Poll
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Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 09:01:50 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: Last Chance on the Poll
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At 08:05 AM 9/25/01 +1200, Julie Wootten wrote:
>> Quick question, after i finished the poll, it said "Logged 3 answers" Now
>
>Logged 3 answers on that particular page.  Some pages would have been
>"Logged 1 answer" etc, and many pages to the poll.

Correct.

>I wonder if the poll might have been more interesting if people had been
>able to check more than one answer for some questions.  For example,
>I collect swords also... but while that collection is only in double
>figures,
>my book collection is in quadruple, so the swords are well and truly
>drowned out, even though the books are the more mundane with nothing
>of particularly valuable about them barring the replacement cost.

Yes, that is planned for the next iteration of the engine:
"Check all that apply" and "Short Answer" type questions.

I'm doing a poll for a PhD candidate doing research on
parental attitudes towards bringing up children bilingual 
using the 'one-parent-one-language' method, and she has
asked for those specific additions.  

So the next Semi-Whenever poll will include those...BDHYB
as it makes no sense to do another immediately.

rip



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Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 10:10:20 +0100
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At 07:46 PM 9/25/01 +1200, Julie Wootten wrote:
>Oh yeah!  You forgot FORTRAN, Rip!  ::prod::
>(Showing my age?  Maybe.)

*scoffs* Hah! A mere toy! 

Anyway, I missed pascal too.  I'll add those...

rip



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Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 08:57:19 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: RE: Last Chance on the Poll
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At 02:18 PM 9/24/01 -0500, Diamond Joe wrote:
>Hasn't seemed that weighted to me here on the list, but what do i know?
>*shrugs* :)
>
>Quick question, after i finished the poll, it said "Logged 3 answers" Now i
>know i answered more questions than that, so either it's speaking of
>something else entirely, or for some reason it dropped most of my answers.
>Out of curiousity, which is it? :)

Consider 'state'.  Each page is an individual state, and
has no direct linkage to any other page already displayed
(or to be displayed in the future).  Enough information
is maintained in the page form to be able to determine
the state that the page represents.  The rest of the
information is maintained in the database.

If three questions are answered on a given page, then
you will see "Logged 3 answers" on the following page.  
There is no cumulative count of previous pages (other
than in the database) and I don't bother recounting 
every time as that would be a waste of resources.  

So when you click submit (if doing 'multiple per page')
or select an answer (if doing 'single per page'), then
those are the answers being reported as logged on the
following page. 

rip



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Subject: Re: Last Chance on the Poll
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 10:26:55 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: Last Chance on the Poll
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At 01:41 AM 9/25/01 -0700, LAR wrote:
>He also left out FORTH, ADA, RPG and a slew of others.

Ah, FORTH.  Do you still have any of those accordion-fold
punch card programs?  Used to get those in magazines the
way they give out CDs now.

Anyway, now we are getting silly.

rip



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To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" (FEISTFANS-L) <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Last Chance on the Poll
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 08:43:18 -0700
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*** EOOH ***
From: Stuart Johnson <Stuart.Johnson@worldwidepackets.com>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" (FEISTFANS-L) <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Last Chance on the Poll
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 08:43:18 -0700
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what about HDL's? like Verilog and VHDL? a bet a few of us use them daily...
at least i do...

-stuart

-----Original Message-----
>From: Richard Williamson [mailto:richard.williamson@windriver.com]
>Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2001 2:27 AM
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: Re: Last Chance on the Poll
>
>
>At 01:41 AM 9/25/01 -0700, LAR wrote:
>>He also left out FORTH, ADA, RPG and a slew of others.
>
>Ah, FORTH.  Do you still have any of those accordion-fold
>punch card programs?  Used to get those in magazines the
>way they give out CDs now.
>
>Anyway, now we are getting silly.
>
>rip
>


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Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 17:09:53 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: RE: Last Chance on the Poll
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*sigh* added it.

Enough already!  ;->

rip

At 08:43 AM 9/25/01 -0700, Stuart Johnson wrote:
>what about HDL's? like Verilog and VHDL? a bet a few of us use them daily...
>at least i do...
>
>-stuart



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From: "Ekki Duismann" <eduismann@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Magician - Author's Preferred Edition
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Subject: Magician - Author's Preferred Edition
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 18:50:59 +0200
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>Last I heard there was going to be a 20th Anniversary edition of Magician 
>in
>Hardback in the UK & Australia only.  It was not going to have anything new
>from the Author's Preferred edition except maybe new coverart

Can one still get the Author's Preferred Edition?

CU
Ekki

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp



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Subject: Re: Magician - Author's Preferred Edition
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From: "Darren McClung" <d@dwmc.org>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Magician - Author's Preferred Edition
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 12:03:10 -0500
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It's not easy, or cheap.  Pretty much everyone who owns one now isn't
letting go, so finding one used is exceptionally rare.  The APE and the
original Magician are the only two books I don't own.  I'm really hoping for
the 20th anniversary edition so I can at least have a copy or two of it in
hardcover.

Darren

>
> >Last I heard there was going to be a 20th Anniversary edition of Magician
> >in
> >Hardback in the UK & Australia only.  It was not going to have anything new
> >from the Author's Preferred edition except maybe new coverart
>
> Can one still get the Author's Preferred Edition?
>
> CU
> Ekki
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>



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From: Sean Fister <sean@itiseasy.com>
Subject: Re: Magician - Author's Preferred Edition
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Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 15:42:12 -0400
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Sean Fister <sean@itiseasy.com>
Subject: Re: Magician - Author's Preferred Edition
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

But the APE is the text of all current paperback editions of 
Magician.  There are no current hardcovers of the APE but you aren't 
missing anything textually by not having the hardback.

Sean Fister

At 01:03 PM 9/25/01, you wrote:
>It's not easy, or cheap.  Pretty much everyone who owns one now isn't
>letting go, so finding one used is exceptionally rare.  The APE and the
>original Magician are the only two books I don't own.  I'm really hoping for
>the 20th anniversary edition so I can at least have a copy or two of it in
>hardcover.
>
>Darren
>
> >
> > >Last I heard there was going to be a 20th Anniversary edition of Magician
> > >in
> > >Hardback in the UK & Australia only.  It was not going to have anything
>new
> > >from the Author's Preferred edition except maybe new coverart
> >
> > Can one still get the Author's Preferred Edition?
> >
> > CU
> > Ekki
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
> >



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Subject: Re: Magician - Author's Preferred Edition
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Darren McClung" <d@dwmc.org>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Magician - Author's Preferred Edition
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 15:02:42 -0500
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Well, this is true, and I do own M:A and M:M in paperback.  I hate reading
mass market paperbacks though.  I always buy two hardcovers, one to read,
and one to leave on the shelf, never to touch.  I guess I'm not a collector
that way.  I still like to READ my books.  It doesn't really matter, as I
never intend to sell my collection.  I still want to keep at least one set
in as perfect condition as possible, and have another set that I can read
when I want to.  I'm sure if I had a 300$ copy of Magician, or a 100$ APE, I
wouldn't touch it, but I would sure love to have the book in hardcover.

Darren


> But the APE is the text of all current paperback editions of
> Magician.  There are no current hardcovers of the APE but you aren't
> missing anything textually by not having the hardback.
>
> Sean Fister
>
> At 01:03 PM 9/25/01, you wrote:
> >It's not easy, or cheap.  Pretty much everyone who owns one now isn't
> >letting go, so finding one used is exceptionally rare.  The APE and the
> >original Magician are the only two books I don't own.  I'm really hoping for
> >the 20th anniversary edition so I can at least have a copy or two of it in
> >hardcover.
> >
> >Darren
> >
> > >
> > > >Last I heard there was going to be a 20th Anniversary edition of Magician
> > > >in
> > > >Hardback in the UK & Australia only.  It was not going to have anything
> >new
> > > >from the Author's Preferred edition except maybe new coverart
> > >
> > > Can one still get the Author's Preferred Edition?
> > >
> > > CU
> > > Ekki
> > >
> > > _________________________________________________________________
> > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
> > >
>



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Subject: Re: Magician - Author's Preferred Edition
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 18:56:23 -0300
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From: "Firesight" <wolfriderfiresight@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re: Magician - Author's Preferred Edition
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 18:56:23 -0300
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Question: I own the copy of Magician APE: was it ever released as hard
cover, or only as the paperback version?  I own the PB version.

*-) Firesight *-)

----- Original Message -----
From: "Darren McClung" <d@dwmc.org>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2001 2:03 PM
Subject: Re: Magician - Author's Preferred Edition


> It's not easy, or cheap.  Pretty much everyone who owns one now isn't
> letting go, so finding one used is exceptionally rare.  The APE and the
> original Magician are the only two books I don't own.  I'm really hoping for
> the 20th anniversary edition so I can at least have a copy or two of it in
> hardcover.
>
> Darren
>
> >
> > >Last I heard there was going to be a 20th Anniversary edition of Magician
> > >in
> > >Hardback in the UK & Australia only.  It was not going to have anything
> new
> > >from the Author's Preferred edition except maybe new coverart
> >
> > Can one still get the Author's Preferred Edition?
> >
> > CU
> > Ekki
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
> >
>
>



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References: <F72zlK4nNAR1JBjbUf9000060a0@hotmail.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20010925154021.036b6b90@wkolex.kih.net> <015c01c145fd$099fe200$0200a8c0@zaknafein>
Subject: Re: Magician - Author's Preferred Edition
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 19:00:43 -0300
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From: "Firesight" <wolfriderfiresight@hotmail.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Magician - Author's Preferred Edition
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 19:00:43 -0300
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Well,

If this rumor about a leatherbound 20th Anneversary Magician are ture, then
I'm gonna same my pennies and get one!

Would be cool, fi Mr. Feist were to release all of his works (eventually) as
leatherbounds.  Maybe as a promotion, towards the 2th anneversary or
something, he could release one every 3 months, in leatherbound.  THat woudl
be sweet!

Probably cost more than the hardcovers, due to the quality of the binding,
but I woudl think it worth it!

I have received my copies of APE< form my brother for Christmas, as they
were the only ones he coudl find of those at the time. -I got the whoel saga
from him for Christmas that yea!  What a great guy!

*-) Firesight *-)

----- Original Message -----
From: "Darren McClung" <d@dwmc.org>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2001 5:02 PM
Subject: Re: Magician - Author's Preferred Edition


> Well, this is true, and I do own M:A and M:M in paperback.  I hate reading
> mass market paperbacks though.  I always buy two hardcovers, one to read,
> and one to leave on the shelf, never to touch.  I guess I'm not a collector
> that way.  I still like to READ my books.  It doesn't really matter, as I
> never intend to sell my collection.  I still want to keep at least one set
> in as perfect condition as possible, and have another set that I can read
> when I want to.  I'm sure if I had a 300$ copy of Magician, or a 100$ APE, I
> wouldn't touch it, but I would sure love to have the book in hardcover.
>
> Darren
>
>
> > But the APE is the text of all current paperback editions of
> > Magician.  There are no current hardcovers of the APE but you aren't
> > missing anything textually by not having the hardback.
> >
> > Sean Fister
> >
> > At 01:03 PM 9/25/01, you wrote:
> > >It's not easy, or cheap.  Pretty much everyone who owns one now isn't
> > >letting go, so finding one used is exceptionally rare.  The APE and the
> > >original Magician are the only two books I don't own.  I'm really hoping
> for
> > >the 20th anniversary edition so I can at least have a copy or two of it
> in
> > >hardcover.
> > >
> > >Darren
> > >
> > > >
> > > > >Last I heard there was going to be a 20th Anniversary edition of
> Magician
> > > > >in
> > > > >Hardback in the UK & Australia only.  It was not going to have
> anything
> > >new
> > > > >from the Author's Preferred edition except maybe new coverart
> > > >
> > > > Can one still get the Author's Preferred Edition?
> > > >
> > > > CU
> > > > Ekki
> > > >
> > > > _________________________________________________________________
> > > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
> http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
> > > >
> >
>
>



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From: Stuart Johnson <Stuart.Johnson@worldwidepackets.com>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" (FEISTFANS-L) <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: OT: LoTR trailer
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 15:32:38 -0700
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From: Stuart Johnson <Stuart.Johnson@worldwidepackets.com>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" (FEISTFANS-L) <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: OT: LoTR trailer
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 15:32:38 -0700
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as it's slow i'll indulge myself <G>

has anyone seen the latest trailer... i personally wasn't expecting much
from the movie effort, and haven't followed it much... but after seeing it
all i can say is... wow! i'm a believer now.

those with broadband enjoy!

http://www.apple.com/trailers/newline/fellowship_of_the_ring/

-stuart



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Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 09:26:55 +1000
From: "Jason Mulligan" <sulimo@bigpond.net.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT: LoTR trailer
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On 25/09/2001 at 3:32 PM Stuart Johnson wrote:

>as it's slow i'll indulge myself <G>
>
>has anyone seen the latest trailer... i personally wasn't expecting much
>from the movie effort, and haven't followed it much... but after seeing it
>all i can say is... wow! i'm a believer now.

Yeah, even though substantial changes are being made this trailer even moreso 
than the others gave me goosebumps. And that was only seeing it as a window 
on my PC. Cant wait to it on the big-screen.

>those with broadband enjoy!

:) Was tricky to download, with so many people trying to download it at the same time.l



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From: "Jason Martin" <res0b95g@verizon.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: LoTR trailer
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Stuart Johnson" <Stuart.Johnson@worldwidepackets.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2001 3:32 PM
Subject: OT: LoTR trailer


> as it's slow i'll indulge myself <G>
>
> has anyone seen the latest trailer... i personally wasn't expecting much
> from the movie effort, and haven't followed it much... but after seeing it
> all i can say is... wow! i'm a believer now.
>
> those with broadband enjoy!
>
> http://www.apple.com/trailers/newline/fellowship_of_the_ring/
>
> -stuart
>
I thought about writing on this earlier, and I'm glad someone else did! =)
I'm excitied for this movie.  All of the trailers have been good, but the
latest one is the most complete yet.  This series is going to be great.  I
honestly think it will translate very well into the movie, since I believe a
lot of the writing was more descripitive then dialogue.  I wouldn't be to
surprised if this movie does very well, that we will see more fantasy movies
done...  Hmm the possibilities.... =)  Anyhow Have the large trailer
downloaded, now I'm going to try to get the full screen one, if I can manage
to slug it out on the website.  That site has been busy the last few days.

Jason



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From: "Diamond Joe" <diamondjoesmith@yahoo.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Last Chance on the Poll
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 21:42:13 -0500
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From: "Diamond Joe" <diamondjoesmith@yahoo.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Last Chance on the Poll
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 21:42:13 -0500
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*L* I'd like to know how many people here know Turing....or have even heard
of it for that matter? *S*

Joe

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Julie Wootten
> Sent: September 25, 2001 2:47 AM
> To: FEISTFANS-L
> Subject: Re: Last Chance on the Poll
>
>
> Oh yeah!  You forgot FORTRAN, Rip!  ::prod::
> (Showing my age?  Maybe.)
>
> Julie.
>
> > Same here, I mean, i know a few of the programming languages that were
> shown
> > there, plus 2 besides. It's not like i really know any one more than
> > another, seeing as how i'm not a programmer and don't know any one
> language
> > intimately....
> >
> > Joe
>



_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com



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From: LAR <lds627@home.com>
Subject: RE: Last Chance on the Poll
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Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 22:48:18 -0700
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu, <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
From: LAR <lds627@home.com>
Subject: RE: Last Chance on the Poll
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Turing is a set of tests, IIRC. As in Cough Rough, etc.

Lar


At 09:42 PM 9/25/01 -0500, Diamond Joe wrote:
>*L* I'd like to know how many people here know Turing....or have even heard
>of it for that matter? *S*
>
>Joe
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Julie Wootten
> > Sent: September 25, 2001 2:47 AM
> > To: FEISTFANS-L
> > Subject: Re: Last Chance on the Poll
> >
> >
> > Oh yeah!  You forgot FORTRAN, Rip!  ::prod::
> > (Showing my age?  Maybe.)
> >
> > Julie.
> >
> > > Same here, I mean, i know a few of the programming languages that were
> > shown
> > > there, plus 2 besides. It's not like i really know any one more than
> > > another, seeing as how i'm not a programmer and don't know any one
> > language
> > > intimately....
> > >
> > > Joe
> >
>
>
>
>_________________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com



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Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 16:28:49 +1000 (EST)
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 16:28:49 +1000 (EST)
From: David Smith - NT Interoperability Engineer <David.M.Smith@Sun.COM>
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: RE: Last Chance on the Poll
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Turing was a person. Alan Turing. The tests you're thinking of were designed (by 
Turing) to see if a computer could "think", which is why you will generally see 
his name used in discussions on artificial intelligence :)

He is also widely considered to be the father of computer science and 
cryptography.

-- David Smith

» 
» Turing is a set of tests, IIRC. As in Cough Rough, etc.
» 
» Lar
» 
» 
» At 09:42 PM 9/25/01 -0500, Diamond Joe wrote:
» >*L* I'd like to know how many people here know Turing....or have even heard
» >of it for that matter? *S*
» >
» >Joe
» >
» > > -----Original Message-----
» > > From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
» > > [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Julie Wootten
» > > Sent: September 25, 2001 2:47 AM
» > > To: FEISTFANS-L
» > > Subject: Re: Last Chance on the Poll
» > >
» > >
» > > Oh yeah!  You forgot FORTRAN, Rip!  ::prod::
» > > (Showing my age?  Maybe.)
» > >
» > > Julie.
» > >
» > > > Same here, I mean, i know a few of the programming languages that were
» > > shown
» > > > there, plus 2 besides. It's not like i really know any one more than
» > > > another, seeing as how i'm not a programmer and don't know any one
» > > language
» > > > intimately....
» > > >
» > > > Joe
» > >
» >
» >
» >
» >_________________________________________________________
» >Do You Yahoo!?
» >Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
» 



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From: Allan Mills <milla@css.com.au>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" (FEISTFANS-L) <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Last Chance on the Poll
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 16:53:53 +1000
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*** EOOH ***
From: Allan Mills <milla@css.com.au>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" (FEISTFANS-L) <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Last Chance on the Poll
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 16:53:53 +1000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

 His most famous test is that if a human talking to a machine, using only
text, can't decide if the machine is a human or a machine then the machine
can be considered intelligent.

 Allan

> -----Original Message-----
> From: David Smith - NT Interoperability Engineer
> [mailto:David.M.Smith@Sun.COM]
> Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2001 4:29 PM
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Subject: RE: Last Chance on the Poll
> 
> 
> Turing was a person. Alan Turing. The tests you're thinking 
> of were designed (by 
> Turing) to see if a computer could "think", which is why you 
> will generally see 
> his name used in discussions on artificial intelligence :)
> 
> He is also widely considered to be the father of computer science and 
> cryptography.
> 
> -- David Smith
> 
> » 
> » Turing is a set of tests, IIRC. As in Cough Rough, etc.
> » 
> » Lar
> » 
> » 
> » At 09:42 PM 9/25/01 -0500, Diamond Joe wrote:
> » >*L* I'd like to know how many people here know 
> Turing....or have even heard
> » >of it for that matter? *S*
> » >
> » >Joe
> » >
> » > > -----Original Message-----
> » > > From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> » > > [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Julie Wootten
> » > > Sent: September 25, 2001 2:47 AM
> » > > To: FEISTFANS-L
> » > > Subject: Re: Last Chance on the Poll
> » > >
> » > >
> » > > Oh yeah!  You forgot FORTRAN, Rip!  ::prod::
> » > > (Showing my age?  Maybe.)
> » > >
> » > > Julie.
> » > >
> » > > > Same here, I mean, i know a few of the programming 
> languages that were
> » > > shown
> » > > > there, plus 2 besides. It's not like i really know 
> any one more than
> » > > > another, seeing as how i'm not a programmer and don't 
> know any one
> » > > language
> » > > > intimately....
> » > > >
> » > > > Joe
> » > >
> » >
> » >
> » >
> » >_________________________________________________________
> » >Do You Yahoo!?
> » >Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
> » 
> 
> 



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Subject: RE: Last Chance on the Poll
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 02:03:15 -0500
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*** EOOH ***
X-Apparently-From: <diamondjoesmith@yahoo.com>
From: "Diamond Joe" <diamondjoesmith@yahoo.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Last Chance on the Poll
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 02:03:15 -0500
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I'm talking about the programming language. :) Good try though. ;)

Joe

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of David Smith - NT
> Interoperability Engineer
> Sent: September 26, 2001 1:29 AM
> To: FEISTFANS-L
> Subject: RE: Last Chance on the Poll
>
>
> Turing was a person. Alan Turing. The tests you're thinking of
> were designed (by
> Turing) to see if a computer could "think", which is why you will
> generally see
> his name used in discussions on artificial intelligence :)
>
> He is also widely considered to be the father of computer science and
> cryptography.
>
> -- David Smith
>
> »
> » Turing is a set of tests, IIRC. As in Cough Rough, etc.
> »
> » Lar
> »
> »
> » At 09:42 PM 9/25/01 -0500, Diamond Joe wrote:
> » >*L* I'd like to know how many people here know Turing....or
> have even heard
> » >of it for that matter? *S*
> » >
> » >Joe
> » >
> » > > -----Original Message-----
> » > > From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> » > > [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Julie Wootten
> » > > Sent: September 25, 2001 2:47 AM
> » > > To: FEISTFANS-L
> » > > Subject: Re: Last Chance on the Poll
> » > >
> » > >
> » > > Oh yeah!  You forgot FORTRAN, Rip!  ::prod::
> » > > (Showing my age?  Maybe.)
> » > >
> » > > Julie.
> » > >
> » > > > Same here, I mean, i know a few of the programming
> languages that were
> » > > shown
> » > > > there, plus 2 besides. It's not like i really know any
> one more than
> » > > > another, seeing as how i'm not a programmer and don't know any one
> » > > language
> » > > > intimately....
> » > > >
> » > > > Joe
> » > >
> » >
> » >
> » >
> » >_________________________________________________________
> » >Do You Yahoo!?
> » >Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
> »
>



_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com



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Subject: RE: Last Chance on the Poll
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 09:01:57 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: RE: Last Chance on the Poll
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

At 09:42 PM 9/25/01 -0500, Diamond Joe wrote:
>*L* I'd like to know how many people here know Turing....or have even heard
>of it for that matter? *S*

*shrugs*

"Descendant of Concurrent Euclid, an airtight super-Pascal. 
Used mainly for teaching programming at both high school and 
university level."
http://www.instantweb.com/foldoc/foldoc.cgi?query=turing

It's covered by Pascal.

rip



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From: "Sonia Tabe" <sonia@nt-tech.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
References: <A37DCFC18E67944ABE602BC3EDA7164619862E@worldwidepackets.com>
Subject: Re: LoTR trailer
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 19:49:22 +0930
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Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: "Sonia Tabe" <sonia@nt-tech.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: LoTR trailer
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 19:49:22 +0930
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Since this is OT, I thought I'd mention the DragonLance trailer for anyone
interested. At http://www.trailerproject.net they are making a trailer for
the DragonLance Chronicles, and they've released the Teaser Trailer of the
trailer. Anyway, it looks great to me!

~Sonia




----- Original Message -----
From: Stuart Johnson <Stuart.Johnson@worldwidepackets.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2001 8:02 AM
Subject: OT: LoTR trailer


> as it's slow i'll indulge myself <G>
>
> has anyone seen the latest trailer... i personally wasn't expecting much
> from the movie effort, and haven't followed it much... but after seeing it
> all i can say is... wow! i'm a believer now.
>
> those with broadband enjoy!
>
> http://www.apple.com/trailers/newline/fellowship_of_the_ring/
>
> -stuart
>



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References: <5.1.0.14.0.20010923222528.01ea8960@mail>
Subject: Re: Can anybody help me? (as in right now!)
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 19:59:34 +0930
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From: "Sonia Tabe" <sonia@nt-tech.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Can anybody help me? (as in right now!)
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 19:59:34 +0930
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Thanks to everyone who helped me with my question. It was much appreciated
=)

~Sonia



----- Original Message -----
From: LAR <lds627@home.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>; FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2001 2:57 PM
Subject: Re: Can anybody help me? (as in right now!)


> At 10:48 AM 9/24/01 +0930, Sonia Tabe wrote:
> >The mark of a good fantasy is where an ordinary person develops into a
> >hero/heroine through their deeds on the completion of a quest. Discuss.
> >
> >How is this true for Magician? Thanks for any help =)
> >
> >Sonia
> >*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
> >Est Sularis Oth Mithas
>
> I don't see how that would be the mark of a good or a bad fantasy, rather I
> believe that is a common plot in many if not MOST fantasy books. Both good
> AND bad. As to an ordinary person developing into a hero or heroine through
> their deeds, etc. Certainly that is true of both Pug and Tomas. But that
> alone is not what made it a good fantasy novel.
>
> Larry
>



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From: Joshua Slavkin <j_solo_2000@yahoo.com>
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: RE: Last Chance on the Poll
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 04:26:36 -0700 (PDT)
From: Joshua Slavkin <j_solo_2000@yahoo.com>
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: RE: Last Chance on the Poll
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

 The Turing programming language was a graduate thesis at the
 University of Toronto (UofT).  It was, and may still be, the
 programming language of choice in introductory Computer Programming
 courses there.  In syntax it is very similar to Pascal.  I personally
 know of no one outside of UofT who has used this language.
 
 Josh
 
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of
>Diamond Joe
>Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2001 10:42 PM
>To: FEISTFANS-L
>Subject: RE: Last Chance on the Poll
>
>
>*L* I'd like to know how many people here know
>Turing....or have even heard
>of it for that matter? *S*
>
>Joe
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Julie Wootten
>> Sent: September 25, 2001 2:47 AM
>> To: FEISTFANS-L
>> Subject: Re: Last Chance on the Poll
>>
>>
>> Oh yeah!  You forgot FORTRAN, Rip!  ::prod::
>> (Showing my age?  Maybe.)
>>
>> Julie.
>>
>> > Same here, I mean, i know a few of the programming languages that were
>> shown
>> > there, plus 2 besides. It's not like i really know any one more than
>> > another, seeing as how i'm not a programmer and don't know any one
>> language
>> > intimately....
>> >
>> > Joe
>>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________________________
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From: Joshua Slavkin <j_solo_2000@yahoo.com>
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: RE: Last Chance on the Poll
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 04:28:02 -0700 (PDT)
From: Joshua Slavkin <j_solo_2000@yahoo.com>
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: RE: Last Chance on the Poll
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

The Turing programming language was a graduate thesis
at the University of Toronto (UofT).  It was, and may
still be, the programming language of choice in
introductory Computer Programming courses there.  In
syntax it is very similar to Pascal.  I personally
know of no one outside of UofT who has used this
language.

Josh



__________________________________________________
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Subject: OT: Programming Languages
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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: OT: Programming Languages
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 22:33:47 +1000
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----- Original Message -----
From: Joshua Slavkin <j_solo_2000@yahoo.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2001 9:26 PM
Subject: RE: Last Chance on the Poll


> The Turing programming language was a graduate
>  thesis at the University of
>  Toronto (UofT).  It was, and may still be, the
>  programming language of
>  choice in introductory Computer Programming courses
>  there.  In syntax it is
>  very similar to Pascal.  I personally know of no one
>  outside of UofT who has
>  used this language.

*Sigh* Pascal... I've just spent three weeks writing a simple database
managing program with TurboPASCAL for an IT assignment. The worst part was
that my teacher has basic knowledge, and gave us some dodgy textbook, when
there was an infinitely better one in the library. Imagine my reaction upon
discovering (from the better book) two days before the due date that there
was a special little feature to do in two lines what had previously taken me
100 (and a lot of fooling around with unnecessary global variables)...

Not happy, Jan!

I can't wait to actually start C++ next year...

Cheers,
James



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On Wednesday, September 26, 2001, at 03:19 AM, Sonia Tabe wrote:

> Since this is OT, I thought I'd mention the DragonLance trailer for 
> anyone
> interested. At http://www.trailerproject.net they are making a trailer 
> for
> the DragonLance Chronicles, and they've released the Teaser Trailer of 
> the
> trailer. Anyway, it looks great to me!
>

Be warned, that site is SLOW.

I'm on broadband and have been downloading the trailer QT file for 
almost five minutes now and it's only about 1/3rd of the way done.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 09:36:33 EDT
Subject: Legends Trade Papaerback
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
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*** EOOH ***
From: Jimmre@aol.com
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 09:36:33 EDT
Subject: Legends Trade Papaerback
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Hi all,

   I just saw the Trade paperback for Legends (it had all
the stories) for sale and wondered if this has just
come out or if it might be worth a few bucks (first edition)
Thanks for your help!

Jim Luckey



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From: "Sonia Tabe" <sonia@nt-tech.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
References: <200109261336.f8QDauB17467@smtp1.san.rr.com>
Subject: Re: LoTR trailer
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 23:16:10 +0930
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*** EOOH ***
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: "Sonia Tabe" <sonia@nt-tech.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: LoTR trailer
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 23:16:10 +0930
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Oh yes, I had that problem too. I was as pleased as punch when it finally
loaded, though.

~Sonia


----- Original Message -----
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2001 11:07 PM
Subject: Re: LoTR trailer


>
> On Wednesday, September 26, 2001, at 03:19 AM, Sonia Tabe wrote:
>
> > Since this is OT, I thought I'd mention the DragonLance trailer for
> > anyone
> > interested. At http://www.trailerproject.net they are making a trailer
> > for
> > the DragonLance Chronicles, and they've released the Teaser Trailer of
> > the
> > trailer. Anyway, it looks great to me!
> >
>
> Be warned, that site is SLOW.
>
> I'm on broadband and have been downloading the trailer QT file for
> almost five minutes now and it's only about 1/3rd of the way done.
>
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
>
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
> stupidity.
>



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 06:57:40 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT: Programming Languages
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Wednesday, September 26, 2001, at 05:33 AM, James Barker wrote:

>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Joshua Slavkin <j_solo_2000@yahoo.com>
> To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2001 9:26 PM
> Subject: RE: Last Chance on the Poll
>
>
>> The Turing programming language was a graduate
>>  thesis at the University of
>>  Toronto (UofT).  It was, and may still be, the
>>  programming language of
>>  choice in introductory Computer Programming courses
>>  there.  In syntax it is
>>  very similar to Pascal.  I personally know of no one
>>  outside of UofT who has
>>  used this language.
>
> *Sigh* Pascal... I've just spent three weeks writing a simple database
> managing program with TurboPASCAL for an IT assignment. The worst part 
> was
> that my teacher has basic knowledge, and gave us some dodgy textbook, 
> when
> there was an infinitely better one in the library. Imagine my reaction 
> upon
> discovering (from the better book) two days before the due date that 
> there
> was a special little feature to do in two lines what had previously 
> taken me
> 100 (and a lot of fooling around with unnecessary global variables)...
>
> Not happy, Jan!
>
> I can't wait to actually start C++ next year...
>

I was one of Ken Bowe's lab rabbits at UCSD.  I was taking Programming 
(which was "learn UCSD Pascal while we write it") and they kept putting 
up "Lucky Versions," i.e. the alpha's they hoped would be the release 
version.  I spent an entire night working on a set of instructions that 
would not execute and at 8 am one of the TA's walked in with a large 
banner (fan fold print out) proclaiming Lucky Version 7.  I said, "What 
are the changes?"  He said, "Not much, but some protocol stuff that will 
prevent certain sub-sets of instructions from executing unless you 
indent the lines."  Urge to kill.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Subject: Question to Ray
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 15:58:33 +0200
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Kenneth Jones <killkenny@thos.co.za>
Subject: Question to Ray
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Hi there.

I just wanted to know how long it took for Magician to really take off.

Just poped into my head so I decided to ask {:-)

Thanks lots.

Regards,
Kenneth



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 06:58:33 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: LoTR trailer
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Wednesday, September 26, 2001, at 06:46 AM, Sonia Tabe wrote:

> Oh yes, I had that problem too. I was as pleased as punch when it 
> finally
> loaded, though.
>
> ~Sonia
>
>

Just watched it.  Some kids with too much time on their hands, I guess.  
And obviously, done without Hasbro's permission. <g>

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Barker" <heechee@softhome.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: LoTR trailer
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 00:41:56 +1000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


----- Original Message -----
From: Stuart Johnson <Stuart.Johnson@worldwidepackets.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2001 8:32 AM
Subject: OT: LoTR trailer


> as it's slow i'll indulge myself <G>
>
> has anyone seen the latest trailer... i personally wasn't expecting much
> from the movie effort, and haven't followed it much... but after seeing it
> all i can say is... wow! i'm a believer now.
>
> those with broadband enjoy!
>
> http://www.apple.com/trailers/newline/fellowship_of_the_ring/

Damnation! Does anyone know a link to download the trailer (in it's
entirety, in .mov format -- preferable the "large" size)? The Quicktime
plugin doesn't like my internet connection for some reason...

Cheers,
James



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Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 07:45:29 -0700
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 07:45:29 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Question to Ray
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On Wednesday, September 26, 2001, at 06:58 AM, Kenneth Jones wrote:

> Hi there.
>
> I just wanted to know how long it took for Magician to really take off.

Depends on how you define "take off."

The book was published to modest success in 1982.  We had a 2nd and 3rd 
printing, which was a good thing, but the numbers were still very 
small.  I'm speaking of US, BTW, but the UK version of the story is a 
bit similar.

Doubleday sold reprint rights to Pinnacle Books, which then went 
bankrupt.  So Doubleday was left with no paperback version, so they 
rushed out a large format (limp) version with a cover done by the same 
artist (Bralt Bralds) who had done Mists of Avelon, in a similar color 
key (intentionally, as Mists had done remarkably well for Random 
House/Del Rey).  The book started marching out of the bookstores.

Finally, Bantam stepped in and bought rights to the Riftwar, and 
terminated the large format edition.  Magician Apprentice/Master did 
well.  Silverthorn did better. And Darkness hit the New York Times list.

So, roughly four years.

> Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.

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Sorry, forget that... Apparently the main Apple site has it zipped.

I feel foolish...

Cheers,
James



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This one is for all the yanks on the list. The website is for the author of 
the book, "Lies MY Teacher Told Me," James W. Loewen. It is one of the inks 
at the top of the page. I just started reading this book and I must say, I 
am impressed.

Adieu

Jimmy

Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary 
Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
   -- Benjamin Franklin



_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp



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Subject: Re: LoTR trailer
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Jason Martin" <res0b95g@verizon.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: LoTR trailer
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 09:08:16 -0700
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Raymond Feist" <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2001 6:37 AM
Subject: Re: LoTR trailer


>
> On Wednesday, September 26, 2001, at 03:19 AM, Sonia Tabe wrote:
>
> > Since this is OT, I thought I'd mention the DragonLance trailer for
> > anyone
> > interested. At http://www.trailerproject.net they are making a trailer
> > for
> > the DragonLance Chronicles, and they've released the Teaser Trailer of
> > the
> > trailer. Anyway, it looks great to me!
> >
>
> Be warned, that site is SLOW.
>
> I'm on broadband and have been downloading the trailer QT file for
> almost five minutes now and it's only about 1/3rd of the way done.
>
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
>
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
> stupidity.

I must have lucked out when I tried to download it.  It didn't take long and
I got about 120K/s on the download.  Not much to look at on the trailer, and
whey they say teaser they really mean it.  In all not a bad teaser, would
love to see the long trailer for this movie (if it comes out).

Jason



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Subject: Re: LoTR trailer
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Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 12:36:05 -0400
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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Subject: Re: LoTR trailer
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Anyone know the legal implications if i put the trailer on my site so 
people can DL it?
Like If I did it through the list only?



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Duh, I should probably include the link:

http://www.uvm.edu/~jloewen/

Jimmy

Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary 
Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
   -- Benjamin Franklin




>From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
>Subject: Ot: American History Quiz
>Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 11:42:52 -0400
>
>This one is for all the yanks on the list. The website is for the author of
>the book, "Lies MY Teacher Told Me," James W. Loewen. It is one of the inks
>at the top of the page. I just started reading this book and I must say, I
>am impressed.
>
>Adieu
>
>Jimmy
>
>Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary
>Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
>   -- Benjamin Franklin
>
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 10:36:46 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Wednesday, September 26, 2001, at 09:36 AM, Larry Siegel wrote:

> Anyone know the legal implications if i put the trailer on my site so 
> people can DL it?
> Like If I did it through the list only?
>
>

Why bother?  As I read it, it's a bunch of gamers in Turkey who have a 
wish fulfilment fantasy going.  Just post the URL.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 13:10:28 -0600
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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James Barker wrote:
> 
> Damnation! Does anyone know a link to download the trailer (in it's
> entirety, in .mov format -- preferable the "large" size)? The Quicktime
> plugin doesn't like my internet connection for some reason...

Umm. If you actually go to that link it has options to just download it
as a zip and stuff.

Craig J. Ries



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 13:09:35 -0600
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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Raymond Feist wrote:
> 
> Just watched it.  Some kids with too much time on their hands, I guess.
> And obviously, done without Hasbro's permission. <g>

And like any of us Dragonlance fans think highly of Hasbro... :)

Craig J. Ries



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Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 12:31:41 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
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On Wednesday, September 26, 2001, at 12:09 PM, Craig J. Ries wrote:

> Raymond Feist wrote:
>>
>> Just watched it.  Some kids with too much time on their hands, I guess.
>> And obviously, done without Hasbro's permission. <g>
>
> And like any of us Dragonlance fans think highly of Hasbro... :)
>
> Craig J. Ries
>
>


You may not think highly of Hasbro, but they do own the TSR, 
Dragonlance, and D&D properties.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 00:04:00 +0300
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Paavo Kakko <joeru@mbnet.fi>
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 Well, since everybody else seems to do it. <g>

  There's a lego version of the "Camelot dance scene" from Monty Python's:
Quest for the Holy Grail available. I have a very faded-out memory that
this has been mentioned before on the list .. but just in case there are
newcomers who haven't heard about it. The file is around 3 megs.

At: http://www.lego.com/studios/screening/media/montypythonlg.mov


At 19:49 26.9.2001 +0930, you wrote:
>Since this is OT, I thought I'd mention the DragonLance trailer for anyone
>interested. At http://www.trailerproject.net they are making a trailer for
>the DragonLance Chronicles, and they've released the Teaser Trailer of the
>trailer. Anyway, it looks great to me!
>
>~Sonia
>
>
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Stuart Johnson <Stuart.Johnson@worldwidepackets.com>
>To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
>Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2001 8:02 AM
>Subject: OT: LoTR trailer
>
>
>> as it's slow i'll indulge myself <G>
>>
>> has anyone seen the latest trailer... i personally wasn't expecting much
>> from the movie effort, and haven't followed it much... but after seeing it
>> all i can say is... wow! i'm a believer now.
>>
>> those with broadband enjoy!
>>
>> http://www.apple.com/trailers/newline/fellowship_of_the_ring/
>>
>> -stuart
>>
>
>
>

 -- Paavo Kakko

 "Again I hear you piping, for I know the tune so well,
  You rouse the heart to wander and be free,
  Tho' where you learned your music, not the God of song can tell,
  For you pipe the open highway and the sea."
                       .. Robert Louis Stevenson; The Piper ..



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 15:19:57 -0600
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: LoTR trailer
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Raymond Feist wrote:
> 
> You may not think highly of Hasbro, but they do own the TSR,
> Dragonlance, and D&D properties.

Oh, I know. See, I was one of (the few most likely at the time) people
who was glad that WotC was buying TSR. Why? Because it saved everything
D&D-related.

But then corporate America decided to step in, screwing everything up,
cause the first thing Hasbro did is lay people off and cancel game
lines, as well as killing any hope that others may return again (ie,
Dragonlance).

Craig J. Ries



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From: Allan Mills <milla@css.com.au>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" (FEISTFANS-L) <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Can anybody help me? (as in right now!)
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 08:14:43 +1000
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*** EOOH ***
From: Allan Mills <milla@css.com.au>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" (FEISTFANS-L) <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Can anybody help me? (as in right now!)
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 08:14:43 +1000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu



> -----Original Message-----
> From: LAR [mailto:lds627@home.com]
> Sent: Monday, September 24, 2001 3:27 PM
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu; FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Subject: Re: Can anybody help me? (as in right now!)
> 
> 
> At 10:48 AM 9/24/01 +0930, Sonia Tabe wrote:
> >The mark of a good fantasy is where an ordinary person 
> develops into a
> >hero/heroine through their deeds on the completion of a 
> quest. Discuss.
> >
> >How is this true for Magician? Thanks for any help =)
> >
> >Sonia
> >*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
> >Est Sularis Oth Mithas
> 
> I don't see how that would be the mark of a good or a bad 
> fantasy, rather I 
> believe that is a common plot in many if not MOST fantasy 
> books. Both good 
> AND bad. As to an ordinary person developing into a hero or 
> heroine through 
> their deeds, etc. Certainly that is true of both Pug and 
> Tomas. But that 
> alone is not what made it a good fantasy novel.
> 
> Larry
> 
> 

 What would be the alternative I wonder ? A wizard dropping in out of
nowhere and magically turns a peasant into a hero ? Could be interesting I
suppose if only for uniqueness.

 Allan



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From: Allan Mills <milla@css.com.au>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" (FEISTFANS-L) <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Programming Languages
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 08:55:28 +1000
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*** EOOH ***
From: Allan Mills <milla@css.com.au>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" (FEISTFANS-L) <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Programming Languages
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 08:55:28 +1000
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: James Barker [mailto:heechee@softhome.net]
> Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2001 10:34 PM
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Subject: OT: Programming Languages
> 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Joshua Slavkin <j_solo_2000@yahoo.com>
> To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2001 9:26 PM
> Subject: RE: Last Chance on the Poll
> 
> 
> > The Turing programming language was a graduate
> >  thesis at the University of
> >  Toronto (UofT).  It was, and may still be, the
> >  programming language of
> >  choice in introductory Computer Programming courses
> >  there.  In syntax it is
> >  very similar to Pascal.  I personally know of no one
> >  outside of UofT who has
> >  used this language.
> 
> *Sigh* Pascal... I've just spent three weeks writing a simple database
> managing program with TurboPASCAL for an IT assignment. The 
> worst part was
> that my teacher has basic knowledge, and gave us some dodgy 
> textbook, when
> there was an infinitely better one in the library. Imagine my 
> reaction upon
> discovering (from the better book) two days before the due 
> date that there
> was a special little feature to do in two lines what had 
> previously taken me
> 100 (and a lot of fooling around with unnecessary global variables)...
> 
> Not happy, Jan!
> 
> I can't wait to actually start C++ next year...
> 
> Cheers,
> James
> 
> 

 Hehe, good computer language teachers aren't that common since most of the
good programmers make better money actually programming. The teacher I had
in High school for one of my computer courses would freely admit I knew more
about computers than he did. The school wasn't big enough to have a computer
deparment so the math teachers did it instead.

 Allan



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From: Joseph Smith <diamondjoesmith@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: Last Chance on the Poll
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 18:56:23 -0400 (EDT)
From: Joseph Smith <diamondjoesmith@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: Last Chance on the Poll
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

*L* I never said it wasn't or that it needed to be
added to the poll....the real question is did you know
that before you looked it up? *S*

As the definition points out, it's not a commonly used
language. Basically some high schools will use it
instead of Pascal as a jumping point.

From what i understand it was written at the
University of Waterloo in Ontario. I've got a copy at
home, i suppose i'll have to look at the info on it
again and find out...

Joseph Smith
--- Richard Williamson
<richard.williamson@windriver.com> wrote:
> At 09:42 PM 9/25/01 -0500, Diamond Joe wrote:
> >*L* I'd like to know how many people here know
> Turing....or have even heard
> >of it for that matter? *S*
> 
> *shrugs*
> 
> "Descendant of Concurrent Euclid, an airtight
> super-Pascal. 
> Used mainly for teaching programming at both high
> school and 
> university level."
>
>http://www.instantweb.com/foldoc/foldoc.cgi?query=turing
> 
> It's covered by Pascal.
> 
> rip
> 


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From: Joseph Smith <diamondjoesmith@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: Last Chance on the Poll
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 19:05:09 -0400 (EDT)
From: Joseph Smith <diamondjoesmith@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: Last Chance on the Poll
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

You do now. :) Never been to the UofT. Applied there,
but since they weren't the first choice on my
application they didn't even look at me. Funny, since
i got accepted to every other Ontario University that
i applied to.

I took Turing in High School, and trot it out now and
then when i'm feeling nostalgic. :)

Joseph Smith

--- Joshua Slavkin <j_solo_2000@yahoo.com> wrote:
>  The Turing programming language was a graduate
>  thesis at the University of
>  Toronto (UofT).  It was, and may still be, the
>  programming language of
>  choice in introductory Computer Programming courses
>  there.  In syntax it is
>  very similar to Pascal.  I personally know of no
> one
>  outside of UofT who has
>  used this language.
>  
>  Josh
>  
>  -----Original Message-----
>  From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>  [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of
>  Diamond Joe
>  Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2001 10:42 PM
>  To: FEISTFANS-L
>  Subject: RE: Last Chance on the Poll
>  
>  
>  *L* I'd like to know how many people here know
>  Turing....or have even heard
>  of it for that matter? *S*
>  
>  Joe
>  
>  > -----Original Message-----
>  > From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>  > [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf
> Of
>  Julie Wootten
>  > Sent: September 25, 2001 2:47 AM
>  > To: FEISTFANS-L
>  > Subject: Re: Last Chance on the Poll
>  >
>  >
>  > Oh yeah!  You forgot FORTRAN, Rip!  ::prod::
>  > (Showing my age?  Maybe.)
>  >
>  > Julie.
>  >
>  > > Same here, I mean, i know a few of the
>  programming languages that were
>  > shown
>  > > there, plus 2 besides. It's not like i really
>  know any one more than
>  > > another, seeing as how i'm not a programmer and
>  don't know any one
>  > language
>  > > intimately....
>  > >
>  > > Joe
>  >
>  
>  
> 
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant
> messaging with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com
> 


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From: Joseph Smith <diamondjoesmith@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: OT: Programming Languages
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 19:19:36 -0400 (EDT)
From: Joseph Smith <diamondjoesmith@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: OT: Programming Languages
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

You should try what happened to me. They split first
year programming into 2 half courses here. I wasn't
going into Programming as a courseload, so the first
year of Uni, i took the first half.....the next year i
decided to take the second half.

No problem. Except that the first year they were
teaching using Pascal for both halves of the course.
The next year they were using C++ for both halves. So
not only did i need to learn what they were teaching
THAT semester, I had to learn the basics of C++ that
they had taught the first sememster. Talk about fun
times. :)

Joseph Smith

--- James Barker <heechee@softhome.net> wrote:
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Joshua Slavkin <j_solo_2000@yahoo.com>
> To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2001 9:26 PM
> Subject: RE: Last Chance on the Poll
> 
> 
> > The Turing programming language was a graduate
> >  thesis at the University of
> >  Toronto (UofT).  It was, and may still be, the
> >  programming language of
> >  choice in introductory Computer Programming
> courses
> >  there.  In syntax it is
> >  very similar to Pascal.  I personally know of no
> one
> >  outside of UofT who has
> >  used this language.
> 
> *Sigh* Pascal... I've just spent three weeks writing
> a simple database
> managing program with TurboPASCAL for an IT
> assignment. The worst part was
> that my teacher has basic knowledge, and gave us
> some dodgy textbook, when
> there was an infinitely better one in the library.
> Imagine my reaction upon
> discovering (from the better book) two days before
> the due date that there
> was a special little feature to do in two lines what
> had previously taken me
> 100 (and a lot of fooling around with unnecessary
> global variables)...
> 
> Not happy, Jan!
> 
> I can't wait to actually start C++ next year...
> 
> Cheers,
> James
> 


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From: Allan Mills <milla@css.com.au>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" (FEISTFANS-L) <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Last Chance on the Poll
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 09:18:46 +1000
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*** EOOH ***
From: Allan Mills <milla@css.com.au>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" (FEISTFANS-L) <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Last Chance on the Poll
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 09:18:46 +1000
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

 Personally I'm wondering why PL/SQL isn't on the list. It only runs in
Oracle databases but Oracle is a pretty common database.

 Allan 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joseph Smith [mailto:diamondjoesmith@yahoo.com]
> Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2001 8:56 AM
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Subject: RE: Last Chance on the Poll
> 
> 
> *L* I never said it wasn't or that it needed to be
> added to the poll....the real question is did you know
> that before you looked it up? *S*
> 
> As the definition points out, it's not a commonly used
> language. Basically some high schools will use it
> instead of Pascal as a jumping point.
> 
> >From what i understand it was written at the
> University of Waterloo in Ontario. I've got a copy at
> home, i suppose i'll have to look at the info on it
> again and find out...
> 
> Joseph Smith



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Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 09:26:28 +1000 (GMT+1000)
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From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Legends Trade Papaerback
In-Reply-To: <76.106509a8.28e333e1@aol.com>
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Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 09:26:28 +1000 (GMT+1000)
From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Legends Trade Papaerback
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Nope came out aaaages ago.

> Hi all,
>
>    I just saw the Trade paperback for Legends (it had all
> the stories) for sale and wondered if this has just
> come out or if it might be worth a few bucks (first edition)
> Thanks for your help!
>
> Jim Luckey
>
>

Thanks
Darragh
-=-=
www.iamtheporkfireman.com
[Email]: s356179@student.uq.edu.au [ICQ]: 114283262



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Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 17:33:38 -0700
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 17:33:38 -0700
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Alan Kellogg <mythusmage@cts.com>
Subject: Re: LoTR trailer
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

>On Wednesday, September 26, 2001, at 12:09 PM, Craig J. Ries wrote:
>
>>Raymond Feist wrote:
>>>
>>>Just watched it.  Some kids with too much time on their hands, I guess.
>>>And obviously, done without Hasbro's permission. <g>
>>
>>And like any of us Dragonlance fans think highly of Hasbro... :)
>>
>>Craig J. Ries
>>
>
>
>You may not think highly of Hasbro, but they do own the TSR, 
>Dragonlance, and D&D properties.
>
>Best, R.E.F.

Thanks to all the games TSR picked up before getting bought out by 
WotC Hasbro has the largest collection of RPG properties in the 
world, the vast majority of which will likely never see the light of 
day again anytime soon.:)

Alan
-- 
Mythusmage.com <http://www.mythusmage.com>



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 17:40:20 -0700
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Alan Kellogg <mythusmage@cts.com>
Subject: Re: LoTR trailer
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

>Raymond Feist wrote:
>>
>>  You may not think highly of Hasbro, but they do own the TSR,
>>  Dragonlance, and D&D properties.
>
>Oh, I know. See, I was one of (the few most likely at the time) people
>who was glad that WotC was buying TSR. Why? Because it saved everything
>D&D-related.
>
>But then corporate America decided to step in, screwing everything up,
>cause the first thing Hasbro did is lay people off and cancel game
>lines, as well as killing any hope that others may return again (ie,
>Dragonlance).
>
>Craig J. Ries

Dragonlance, as a game setting, didn't have legs. Once you were done 
with the modules you were pretty much done with the world. There was 
hell all else to do.
As a place to set books you could do more with it, but getting folks 
to try rolegaming in Krynn proved to be more trouble than it was 
worth.

Yes, it saved TSR, for awhile. But it wasn't a good long term 
investment. After all, any company that goes out of its way to lose 
money is going to go out of business.

And for your information, there is support for DL out on the web. 
Check the WotC site for their list of official campaign sites, or the 
list of same that can be found at <http://www.d20reviews.com> on its 
DnD links page.

Alan
-- 
Mythusmage.com <http://www.mythusmage.com>



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Subject: Re: OT: Programming Languages
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 19:54:39 -0500
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT: Programming Languages
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 19:54:39 -0500
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

    Am I the only person here who rather than knowing programming
languages actually bothered to learn software?  I only know Basic
from my days back on the old C64 and C128...I currently work on
ArcView 3.2 and am going to move into working on ArcGIS next
semester as opposed to taking C++ or any other programming languages
though I do know HTML and am working on learning DHTML and
JavaScript for what that is worth (ie nothing).

-James

----- Original Message -----
> You should try what happened to me. They split first
> year programming into 2 half courses here. I wasn't
> going into Programming as a courseload, so the first
> year of Uni, i took the first half.....the next year i
> decided to take the second half.
>
> No problem. Except that the first year they were
> teaching using Pascal for both halves of the course.
> The next year they were using C++ for both halves. So
> not only did i need to learn what they were teaching
> THAT semester, I had to learn the basics of C++ that
> they had taught the first sememster. Talk about fun
> times. :)
>
> Joseph Smith
>
> --- James Barker <heechee@softhome.net> wrote:
> >
> > *Sigh* Pascal... I've just spent three weeks writing
> > a simple database
> > managing program with TurboPASCAL for an IT
> > assignment. The worst part was
> > that my teacher has basic knowledge, and gave us
> > some dodgy textbook, when
> > there was an infinitely better one in the library.
> > Imagine my reaction upon
> > discovering (from the better book) two days before
> > the due date that there
> > was a special little feature to do in two lines what
> > had previously taken me
> > 100 (and a lot of fooling around with unnecessary
> > global variables)...
> >
> > Not happy, Jan!
> >
> > I can't wait to actually start C++ next year...
> >
> > Cheers,
> > James



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Subject: Re: Can anybody help me? (as in right now!)
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 18:04:16 -0700
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


----- Original Message -----
From: "Allan Mills" <milla@css.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2001 3:14 PM
Subject: RE: Can anybody help me? (as in right now!)


>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: LAR [mailto:lds627@home.com]
> > Sent: Monday, September 24, 2001 3:27 PM
> > To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu; FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > Subject: Re: Can anybody help me? (as in right now!)
> >
> >
> > At 10:48 AM 9/24/01 +0930, Sonia Tabe wrote:
> > >The mark of a good fantasy is where an ordinary person
> > develops into a
> > >hero/heroine through their deeds on the completion of a
> > quest. Discuss.
> > >
> > >How is this true for Magician? Thanks for any help =)
> > >
> > >Sonia
> > >*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
> > >Est Sularis Oth Mithas
> >
> > I don't see how that would be the mark of a good or a bad
> > fantasy, rather I
> > believe that is a common plot in many if not MOST fantasy
> > books. Both good
> > AND bad. As to an ordinary person developing into a hero or
> > heroine through
> > their deeds, etc. Certainly that is true of both Pug and
> > Tomas. But that
> > alone is not what made it a good fantasy novel.
> >
> > Larry
> >
> >
>
>  What would be the alternative I wonder ? A wizard dropping in out of
> nowhere and magically turns a peasant into a hero ? Could be interesting I
> suppose if only for uniqueness.
>
>  Allan
>

thats kinda what happened in the lord of the rings if u think of hobbits
kinda like the salt of the earth types



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Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 19:14:54 -0600
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: LoTR trailer
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Alan Kellogg wrote:
> 
> Dragonlance, as a game setting, didn't have legs. Once you were done
> with the modules you were pretty much done with the world. There was
> hell all else to do.

That's because TSR didn't know how to run a campaign world properly. Or
atleast, the mistakes made with DL weren't repeated with others like FR.

Besides, DL is a low-power setting while FR is made for those that want
to kill gods for afternoon fun :P

> Yes, it saved TSR, for awhile. But it wasn't a good long term
> investment. After all, any company that goes out of its way to lose
> money is going to go out of business.

Well, nobody ever said that TSR was run very well.

> And for your information, there is support for DL out on the web.
> Check the WotC site for their list of official campaign sites

I'm a member of the official DL Mailing List, as well as the DL
newsgroup (amongst a couple of other forums I drop by in now and then).
I was there to debate which site (if any) were to be picked for the
official website for Dragonlance :)

As it stands, I'm working with a member of the Dragonlance Nexus on an
article for the DL Nexus website. :)

Craig J. Ries



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From: Joseph Smith <diamondjoesmith@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: Programming Languages
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 21:22:21 -0400 (EDT)
From: Joseph Smith <diamondjoesmith@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: Programming Languages
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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>  Hehe, good computer language teachers aren't that
> common since most of the
> good programmers make better money actually
> programming. The teacher I had
> in High school for one of my computer courses would
> freely admit I knew more
> about computers than he did. The school wasn't big
> enough to have a computer
> deparment so the math teachers did it instead.
> 
>  Allan
> 

*LOL* our computer teacher in High School had NO idea
about programming. Without her teacher's manual she
was lost. I used to love coming up with different ways
to write my programs just because she'd mark it wrong
if it didn't match what she had in her book for the
proper program. Right up until i would show her that
it did exactly what she wanted, with fewer lines of
programming. *LOL* Sometimes it's that little thought
of superiority that gets you through the day.

One time i wrote a program that made it appear as if
the hard drive was being formatted. Almost gave her a
heart attack. 

Joseph Smith

_______________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca



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Subject: RE: Can anybody help me? (as in right now!)
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*** EOOH ***
From: Allan Mills <milla@css.com.au>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" (FEISTFANS-L) <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Can anybody help me? (as in right now!)
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 11:31:21 +1000
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: C.T. Cusimano [mailto:supert@redshift.com]
> Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2001 11:04 AM
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Subject: Re: Can anybody help me? (as in right now!)
> 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Allan Mills" <milla@css.com.au>
> To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2001 3:14 PM
> Subject: RE: Can anybody help me? (as in right now!)
> 
> 
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: LAR [mailto:lds627@home.com]
> > > Sent: Monday, September 24, 2001 3:27 PM
> > > To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu; FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > > Subject: Re: Can anybody help me? (as in right now!)
> > >
> > >
> > > At 10:48 AM 9/24/01 +0930, Sonia Tabe wrote:
> > > >The mark of a good fantasy is where an ordinary person
> > > develops into a
> > > >hero/heroine through their deeds on the completion of a
> > > quest. Discuss.
> > > >
> > > >How is this true for Magician? Thanks for any help =)
> > > >
> > > >Sonia
> > > >*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
> > > >Est Sularis Oth Mithas
> > >
> > > I don't see how that would be the mark of a good or a bad
> > > fantasy, rather I
> > > believe that is a common plot in many if not MOST fantasy
> > > books. Both good
> > > AND bad. As to an ordinary person developing into a hero or
> > > heroine through
> > > their deeds, etc. Certainly that is true of both Pug and
> > > Tomas. But that
> > > alone is not what made it a good fantasy novel.
> > >
> > > Larry
> > >
> > >
> >
> >  What would be the alternative I wonder ? A wizard dropping 
> in out of
> > nowhere and magically turns a peasant into a hero ? Could 
> be interesting I
> > suppose if only for uniqueness.
> >
> >  Allan
> >
> 
> thats kinda what happened in the lord of the rings if u think 
> of hobbits
> kinda like the salt of the earth types
> 
> 

 Close but not quite what I meant. Both Frodo and Bilbo had the natural
talents of being a hobbit and had to endure a hard quest to become a hero.

 I'm talking about a wizard knocking on the door of Bob the tanner, handing
him a big sword, a suit of armour, casting a spell making him really strong
and skilled then saying "Get out there and do some good".

 Allan



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Subject: OT: RE: Programming Languages
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Subject: OT: RE: Programming Languages
From: Falerin Ardendor <falerin@ultraisp.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Date: 26 Sep 2001 23:22:30 -0400
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Strangely Enough my programming teacher is actually quite
knowledgeable... I think she is teaching primarily because she lives
in central pa, where there is little market for it, and her husband is
a professor of mathematics at the university too, so she has no
real desire to go elsewhere...

Falerin



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Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 21:55:09 -0500
From: Bret Robideaux <bretr@alliances.org>
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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT: Programming Languages
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Heh, I did that for my entire degree (Computer Science). Each semester, 
I took a different language as one of my courses. In all my concept 
courses each semester (File Systems, Operating Systems, etc) I did all 
programming work in that language.

I took Compiler Writing the same semester I took Ada. That one tested my 
resolve :)

Bret

Joseph Smith wrote:

> You should try what happened to me. They split first
> year programming into 2 half courses here. I wasn't
> going into Programming as a courseload, so the first
> year of Uni, i took the first half.....the next year i
> decided to take the second half.
> 
> No problem. Except that the first year they were
> teaching using Pascal for both halves of the course.
> The next year they were using C++ for both halves. So
> not only did i need to learn what they were teaching
> THAT semester, I had to learn the basics of C++ that
> they had taught the first sememster. Talk about fun
> times. :)
> 
> Joseph Smith
> 



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Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 22:09:16 -0500
From: Bret Robideaux <bretr@alliances.org>
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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT: Programming Languages
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Programming languages are simply tools. You know the saying: if all you 
have is a hammer, all the problems tend to look like nails.

Different programming languages have different strengths and weaknesses. 
Knowing several different kinds of languages gives you a leg up when 
developing "real" software.

The ideal is to define the nature of the problem, design (at a high 
level) the appropriate solution, choose the language (that meets the 
high level goals of the solution), do the detailed design, code, test, 
design, code, test, ...

The requirements of the high level solution will (should) dictate your 
programming language.

Personally I know several different kinds of languages: C, C++, Java, 
Perl, Ksh, sed, awk, PHP, Tcl, Javascript, CLIPS, even a couple 
different assembly languages, and if you insist on calling it a 
programming language, (D)HTML too. But my skill (what I pay the mortgage 
with) is solving large problems with large pieces of software. I not 
only need to know how to build good software, but be able to integrate 
several large pieces, often written in different languages.

So, I guess, to answer your question, no. You're not the only person who 
bothered to learn software :)

Vi syns,
Bret (please note the use of the smiley :)


James Young wrote:

>     Am I the only person here who rather than knowing programming
> languages actually bothered to learn software?  I only know Basic
> from my days back on the old C64 and C128...I currently work on
> ArcView 3.2 and am going to move into working on ArcGIS next
> semester as opposed to taking C++ or any other programming languages
> though I do know HTML and am working on learning DHTML and
> JavaScript for what that is worth (ie nothing).
> 
> -James
> 




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From: LAR <lds627@home.com>
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From: LAR <lds627@home.com>
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At 08:14 AM 9/27/01 +1000, Allan Mills wrote:


> >
>
>  What would be the alternative I wonder ? A wizard dropping in out of
>nowhere and magically turns a peasant into a hero ? Could be interesting I
>suppose if only for uniqueness.
>
>  Allan

Not my point really. IMO, it is not the plot alone that makes a good or bad 
fantasy novel, it is the writer and the way they weave various elements. If 
the desire is to LIST those elements, that is different. In that case I 
feel that the original descriptions was insufficient to serve the purpose. 
I believe there are elements of unique challenges, life changing events and 
challenges which force the hero or anti-hero (Such as in Thomas Covenant), 
to reevaluate themselves and their view of the world and grow because of 
it. To me the last is the heart of a good fantasy novel. Even though I 
disliked Roo, he certainly grew between the beginning of ROAMP and it's 
end. In fact he and Erik continued to grow and evolve throughout the entire 
series. Even if there basic natures remained the same. I think that is the 
problem with POTB for me, while the brothers certainly DID go through a 
life changing experience, Borric especially, I don't believe that we were 
given enough time to really learn to care about them as we have with the 
others.  Which to me is an excellent example of a book that is well 
written, lucid and filled with exciting moments yet still failed, again 
IMO, to be a great fantasy novel.

Larry



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Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 22:07:28 -0600
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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Bret Robideaux wrote:
> 
> Heh, I did that for my entire degree (Computer Science).

I just graduated with an Associate of Applied Science in
Programming/Analysis last month.

> Each semester, I took a different language as one of my courses. In
> all my concept courses each semester (File Systems, Operating Systems,
> etc) I did all programming work in that language.

Yeah, I lost track of how many courses I took for actual programming
languages. Now if I can actually get a programming job...

Craig J. Ries



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Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 06:07:55 GMT
Subject: Re: OT: Programming Languages
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Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 06:07:55 GMT
Subject: Re: OT: Programming Languages
X-User-Info: 203.202.88.90

>Programming languages are simply tools. You know the saying: if all you 
>have is a hammer, all the problems tend to look like nails.
>
>Different programming languages have different strengths and weaknesses. 
>Knowing several different kinds of languages gives you a leg up when 
>developing "real" software.
>
>The ideal is to define the nature of the problem, design (at a high 
>level) the appropriate solution, choose the language (that meets the 
>high level goals of the solution), do the detailed design, code, test, 
>design, code, test, ...
>
>The requirements of the high level solution will (should) dictate your 
>programming language.
>
>Personally I know several different kinds of languages: C, C++, Java, 
>Perl, Ksh, sed, awk, PHP, Tcl, Javascript, CLIPS, even a couple 
>different assembly languages, and if you insist on calling it a 
>programming language, (D)HTML too. But my skill (what I pay the mortgage 
>with) is solving large problems with large pieces of software. I not 
>only need to know how to build good software, but be able to integrate 
>several large pieces, often written in different languages.
>
>So, I guess, to answer your question, no. You're not the only person who 
>bothered to learn software :)
>
>Vi syns,
>Bret (please note the use of the smiley :)
>

I have fun with my job.  I'm part of a team that writes instruction & cycle
accurate ColdFire microprocessor simulators.  We write these in C, write ColdFire
assembly code to test it, verify it against a Verilog/VHDL RTL (register transfer
level model of the microprocessor) using a testbench that is written in Perl.
 So during a normal day at work I have all the fun of working with four separate
programming langauges, on four different operating systems as well (SunOS, Linux,
Win-NT, HPUX - you wouldn't believe the differences there are with the Floating
point units on these machines, all supposedly IEEE-754 standard).  I never expected
to be doing this after finishing uni last year ...

- MARK



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From: John <john@crydee.com>
Subject: Magician - Author's Preferred Edition 2002
References: <F72zlK4nNAR1JBjbUf9000060a0@hotmail.com>
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Firesight <wolfriderfiresight@hotmail.com> writes
>Well,
>
>If this rumor about a leatherbound 20th Anneversary Magician are ture, then
>I'm gonna same my pennies and get one!
>

Here is a response I had from a contact at HC

Yes, we're still going for a 20th anniversary MAGICIAN -- probably just 
a
limited hardback, rather than leatherbound. It's scheduled for September
2002. I don't think we can make an economic case for reissuing the other
titles, though.


-- 
John

john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.

Raymond E Feist Ring
http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm



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From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Magician - Author's Preferred Edition 2002
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 15:36:10 +0800
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From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Magician - Author's Preferred Edition 2002
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 15:36:10 +0800
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That's kind of sad, a leatherbound one would look so nice as well.

On a different note I just have to take my hat off to Ray for using the
word deers've - for those wondering it was in the context of the
thoughts of one of the sons in Faerie Tale to do with horns like
deers've got. What a tops word, I was impressed at least :)

CW

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu 
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of John
> Sent: Thursday, 27 September 2001 1:44 PM
> To: FEISTFANS-L
> Subject: Magician - Author's Preferred Edition 2002
> 
> Here is a response I had from a contact at HC
> 
> Yes, we're still going for a 20th anniversary MAGICIAN -- 
> probably just 
> a
> limited hardback, rather than leatherbound. It's scheduled 
> for September
> 2002. I don't think we can make an economic case for 
> reissuing the other
> titles, though.
> 
> 
> -- 
> John
> 
> john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
> http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.
> 
> Raymond E Feist Ring
> http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm
> 



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From: "Nancy Brown" <nkbrown@arches.uga.edu>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: KtA hardback $2.99 at Barnes & Noble
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 07:35:52 -0400
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Nancy Brown" <nkbrown@arches.uga.edu>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: KtA hardback $2.99 at Barnes & Noble
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 07:35:52 -0400
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As my husband I and were leaving the local Barnes & Noble Tuesday evening we
noticed that KtA had hit the bargain booktrucks in the entryway.  A good
time to shop if  you don't already have the hardback!

--Nancy



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References: <20010926231936.81551.qmail@web11403.mail.yahoo.com> <3BB2950D.9090604@alliances.org> <3BB2A600.FF4CA17F@yifan.net>
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Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 08:47:02 -0500
From: Bret Robideaux <bretr@alliances.org>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:0.9.2) Gecko/20010726 Netscape6/6.1
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT: Programming Languages
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Best of luck. The markets a bit tight right now. Especially at entry level.

I'm used to getting a steady stream of requests to interview me and 
that's almost completely dried up.

Bret

Craig J. Ries wrote:

> Bret Robideaux wrote:
> 
>>Heh, I did that for my entire degree (Computer Science).
>>
> 
> I just graduated with an Associate of Applied Science in
> Programming/Analysis last month.
> 
> 
>>Each semester, I took a different language as one of my courses. In
>>all my concept courses each semester (File Systems, Operating Systems,
>>etc) I did all programming work in that language.
>>
> 
> Yeah, I lost track of how many courses I took for actual programming
> languages. Now if I can actually get a programming job...
> 
> Craig J. Ries
> 
> 



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From: "Diamond Joe" <diamondjoesmith@yahoo.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
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Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 11:05:21 -0500
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But were you just learning different languages? Or were you taking courses
that were based on you knowing the language already and building on that?
The second half of Computer programming was based on that i should already
know what was taught in the first half. I did, but I knew it in the wrong
language.

Basically what i was doing was going from Grade 9 French, to Grade 10
spanish. They expected me to know the basic syntaxes in that language
already so the could build the vocabulary. Doesn't work so easy :) I knew
what i had to do to solve the programs, just had to figure out HOW to do it
in C++ instead of Pascal.

Didn't help that i had a different C++ on my home computer from what they
were teaching in the University. I was basically trying to learn 2 NEW
languages that i should have known going into that course....:)

Joseph

> Heh, I did that for my entire degree (Computer Science). Each semester,
> I took a different language as one of my courses. In all my concept
> courses each semester (File Systems, Operating Systems, etc) I did all
> programming work in that language.
>
> I took Compiler Writing the same semester I took Ada. That one tested my
> resolve :)
>
> Bret
>
> Joseph Smith wrote:
>
> > You should try what happened to me. They split first
> > year programming into 2 half courses here. I wasn't
> > going into Programming as a courseload, so the first
> > year of Uni, i took the first half.....the next year i
> > decided to take the second half.
> >
> > No problem. Except that the first year they were
> > teaching using Pascal for both halves of the course.
> > The next year they were using C++ for both halves. So
> > not only did i need to learn what they were teaching
> > THAT semester, I had to learn the basics of C++ that
> > they had taught the first sememster. Talk about fun
> > times. :)
> >
> > Joseph Smith
> >
>



_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com



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Subject: Re: Legends Trade Papaerback
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From: Jimmre@aol.com
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 13:33:44 EDT
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Thanks Darragh.


   I tried looking on ebay and couldn't find any to know the relative value. Anyone out there know what a Trade Paperback Legends is going for?? (John?)

Thanks ahead of time.

Jim Luckey



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Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 13:53:47 -0600
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Legends Trade Papaerback
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Jimmre@aol.com wrote:
> 
> I tried looking on ebay and couldn't find any to know the relative value.
> Anyone out there know what a Trade Paperback Legends is going for?? (John?)

Trade paperback Legends? More info would be useful here :)

Craig J. Ries



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From: LAR <lds627@home.com>
Subject: Re: OT: Programming Languages
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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu, <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
From: LAR <lds627@home.com>
Subject: Re: OT: Programming Languages
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At 07:54 PM 9/26/01 -0500, James Young wrote:
>     Am I the only person here who rather than knowing programming
>languages actually bothered to learn software?  I only know Basic
>from my days back on the old C64 and C128...I currently work on
>ArcView 3.2 and am going to move into working on ArcGIS next
>semester as opposed to taking C++ or any other programming languages
>though I do know HTML and am working on learning DHTML and
>JavaScript for what that is worth (ie nothing).
>
>-James

Well for me, I have been in Software QA for over 20 years, and while I am 
familiar with several languages, I rarely use any. I just familiarize 
myself enough that I can read and understand the code for purposes of 
review. Just the same, at this point I almost NEVER hire anybody who does 
not at least know how to be proficient in C++, Java and Perl. The ability 
to understand coding and application development is too critical. By the 
same token, I seek people who have a strong understanding of networking, 
application design, systems analysis and  Database Architecture and design.

Larry



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From: John <john@crydee.com>
Subject: Re: Legends Trade Papaerback
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 23:07:18 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: John <john@crydee.com>
Subject: Re: Legends Trade Papaerback
User-Agent: Turnpike/6.00-Beta-8-U (<x5sqXV$6+zj$GDJXMMY4QwhIW3>)
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Jimmre@aol.com writes
>Thanks Darragh.
>
>
>   I tried looking on ebay and couldn't find any to know the relative 
>value. Anyone out there know what a Trade Paperback Legends is going 
>for?? (John?)
>
>Thanks ahead of time.
>
>Jim Luckey
>
>
Probably cover price if it is as new , otherwise less. Also OZ versions 
were slightly thinner than UK Trade Paperbacks. The UK had a HB version. 
Now if we were talking the limited leather edition . between $600 and 
$1000
-- 
John

john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.

Raymond E Feist Ring
http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm



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From: "Cameron Duncan" <cduncan@amadeus.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Legends Trade Papaerback
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 08:21:42 +1000
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From: "Cameron Duncan" <cduncan@amadeus.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Legends Trade Papaerback
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 08:21:42 +1000
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From memory, I paid $27.95 for a new copy of the Australian
edition approx 12 months ago.  In 2nd hand shops, they could range
from $10 to $25 depending on condition.
(please note, these are Australian prices)

Now to try and find a UK HB copy for my collection........ :)

Cameron

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of John
> Sent: Friday, September 28, 2001 8:07
> To: FEISTFANS-L
> Subject: Re: Legends Trade Papaerback
> 
> 
> Jimmre@aol.com writes
> >Thanks Darragh.
> >
> >
> >   I tried looking on ebay and couldn't find any to know the relative 
> >value. Anyone out there know what a Trade Paperback Legends is going 
> >for?? (John?)
> >
> >Thanks ahead of time.
> >
> >Jim Luckey
> >
> >
> Probably cover price if it is as new , otherwise less. Also OZ versions 
> were slightly thinner than UK Trade Paperbacks. The UK had a HB version. 
> Now if we were talking the limited leather edition . between $600 and 
> $1000
> -- 
> John
> 
> john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
> http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.
> 
> Raymond E Feist Ring
> http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm
> 
> 



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From: Allan Mills <milla@css.com.au>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" (FEISTFANS-L) <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: OT: Programming Languages
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 08:43:06 +1000
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*** EOOH ***
From: Allan Mills <milla@css.com.au>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" (FEISTFANS-L) <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: OT: Programming Languages
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 08:43:06 +1000
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 It also wouldn't have helped that C++ is more of an object oriented
language than Pascal. Although you can work around it the paradigm shift can
be really help.

 At the university I attended they were teaching Pascal for one of the basic
courses which was more about how to design and code neatly than how to
actually code. A lot of students were unhappy because Pascal was pretty much
a dead language even then, it was used in some places but you wouldn't see
Pascal job adverts in the newpaper. The lecturers (code snobs) felt
justified because it was a more elegant language than C or C++. A few years
after I started University I heard they were changing it to C.

 Allan

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Diamond Joe [mailto:diamondjoesmith@yahoo.com]
> Sent: Friday, September 28, 2001 2:05 AM
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Subject: RE: OT: Programming Languages
> 
> 
> But were you just learning different languages? Or were you 
> taking courses
> that were based on you knowing the language already and 
> building on that?
> The second half of Computer programming was based on that i 
> should already
> know what was taught in the first half. I did, but I knew it 
> in the wrong
> language.
> 
> Basically what i was doing was going from Grade 9 French, to Grade 10
> spanish. They expected me to know the basic syntaxes in that language
> already so the could build the vocabulary. Doesn't work so 
> easy :) I knew
> what i had to do to solve the programs, just had to figure 
> out HOW to do it
> in C++ instead of Pascal.
> 
> Didn't help that i had a different C++ on my home computer 
> from what they
> were teaching in the University. I was basically trying to learn 2 NEW
> languages that i should have known going into that course....:)
> 
> Joseph
> 



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From: "Jason Martin" <res0b95g@verizon.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: OT: Audiophile question
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 16:14:05 -0700
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Jason Martin" <res0b95g@verizon.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: OT: Audiophile question
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 16:14:05 -0700
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Has anyone picked up the new Dolby Pro Logic 2 processor yet or has heard
it?  From my understanding its allowing 5.1 seperation near as good as Dolby
Digital.  Reason why I ask is when I go to upgrade my reciever (hopefully
sometime soon) I may go with this or one with DTS.  I currently have a Sony
Reciever with DPL and DD and it runs great, but it is a few years old.
Found an article on a game (Star Wars Rogue Leader 2)  for the new Nintendo
GameCube that is using this technology it from what they say they are pretty
impressed.
Link for article:  http://cube.ign.com/news/38639.html  Just makes me kind
of bummed that you have to do an upgrade for the new sound since GameCube is
not doing Dolby Digital signals from their machine.

Thanks,

Jason

"Mas Tequila!"
       Red Vodoo- Sammy Hagar



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*** EOOH ***
From: "A Irving" <aignome@dingoblue.net.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Legends Trade Papaerback
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 09:36:28 +1000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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From: John <john@crydee.com>
> Probably cover price if it is as new , otherwise less. Also OZ versions
> were slightly thinner than UK Trade Paperbacks. The UK had a HB version.
> Now if we were talking the limited leather edition . between $600 and
> $1000
> --
> John
If the Aus. version is thinner is that just because of the paper used, or
font size etc? Or did they omit a story or two.
Recently I have seen the split Trade Paperback in stores in Australia
aswell, though I think it might be the US Version or something.
CIAO,
           Aaron

http://www.hallofworlds.net/kerr/main.php
http://www.nightshadow.co.uk



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References: <20010926231936.81551.qmail@web11403.mail.yahoo.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20010927132808.01eb38e0@mail>
Subject: Re: OT: Programming Languages
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 09:42:11 +1000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "A Irving" <aignome@dingoblue.net.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT: Programming Languages
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 09:42:11 +1000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

From: LAR <lds627@home.com>
> At 07:54 PM 9/26/01 -0500, James Young wrote:
> >     Am I the only person here who rather than knowing programming
> >languages actually bothered to learn software?  I only know Basic
> >from my days back on the old C64 and C128...I currently work on
> >ArcView 3.2 and am going to move into working on ArcGIS next
> >semester as opposed to taking C++ or any other programming languages
> >though I do know HTML and am working on learning DHTML and
> >JavaScript for what that is worth (ie nothing).
> >-James
> Well for me, I have been in Software QA for over 20 years, and while I am
> familiar with several languages, I rarely use any. I just familiarize
> myself enough that I can read and understand the code for purposes of
> review. Just the same, at this point I almost NEVER hire anybody who does
> not at least know how to be proficient in C++, Java and Perl. The ability
> to understand coding and application development is too critical. By the
> same token, I seek people who have a strong understanding of networking,
> application design, systems analysis and  Database Architecture and design.
>
> Larry
I know nothing about real programming languages. But I taught myself HTML, a
bit of DHTML, I don't exactly know javascript but I can sufficiently alter
another piece of code to make it do what I want and write a few small
scripts of my own. I am also beginning to learn a bit about PHP and I was
wondering if someone could tell me just how hard it is to learn Perl? (based
on what I do know-which is rather limited) and how long it would take
someone to teach themself Perl if they no other real languages?
CIAO,
           Aaron

http://www.hallofworlds.net/kerr/main.php
http://www.nightshadow.co.uk



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From: "Jeff Weidemann" <jeff@pronto.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: OT: Programming Languages
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 09:46:55 +1000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Jeff Weidemann" <jeff@pronto.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: OT: Programming Languages
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 09:46:55 +1000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I too have been in the industry for over 20 years, once I used to cut code.
I value application design, database architecture and systems analysis
skills way over that of raw language knowledge. Languages come and go, base
IT skills never go out of fashion. I hire based on depth of skills not
solely based on code cutting skills.  By the way there is still billions
(yes billions) of lines of COBOL code still out there, just visit the IT
dept of a large Bank/Insurance company....

-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of LAR
>Sent: Friday, 28 September 2001 6:31 AM
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu; FEISTFANS-L
>Subject: Re: OT: Programming Languages
>
>
>
>
>
>At 07:54 PM 9/26/01 -0500, James Young wrote:
>>     Am I the only person here who rather than knowing programming
>>languages actually bothered to learn software?  I only know Basic
>>from my days back on the old C64 and C128...I currently work on
>>ArcView 3.2 and am going to move into working on ArcGIS next
>>semester as opposed to taking C++ or any other programming languages
>>though I do know HTML and am working on learning DHTML and
>>JavaScript for what that is worth (ie nothing).
>>
>>-James
>
>Well for me, I have been in Software QA for over 20 years, and while I am
>familiar with several languages, I rarely use any. I just familiarize
>myself enough that I can read and understand the code for purposes of
>review. Just the same, at this point I almost NEVER hire anybody who does
>not at least know how to be proficient in C++, Java and Perl. The ability
>to understand coding and application development is too critical. By the
>same token, I seek people who have a strong understanding of networking,
>application design, systems analysis and  Database Architecture and design.
>
>Larry
>


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Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 09:49:15 +1000
Subject: Re: Legends Trade Papaerback
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*** EOOH ***
From: Brad_A_Krahe@allegiance.com.au
X-Lotus-FromDomain: HCS
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 09:49:15 +1000
Subject: Re: Legends Trade Papaerback
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

John,

As it seems you have more Feist books than any mortal on the list, do you
have a listing of Hardback/Trade Paper backs and their round about $$$
worth that you could post on your website.

Even a listing of different print versions of all the books would be very
interesting read. It would help alot of us who don't know what books came
out in what version.

I only ask because I assume you'd probably have something like this already
? or is it in all your head ? Or is this a guarded object not for public
display ?

Regards,

Brad Krahe
SAP Business & Support Consultant
Allegiance Systems



>
>John <john@crydee.com> on 28/09/2001 08:07:18
>
>Please respond to FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>
>To:   FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
>cc:    (bcc: Brad A Krahe/HCS)
>Subject:  Re: Legends Trade Papaerback
>
>
>
>
>Jimmre@aol.com writes
>>Thanks Darragh.
>>
>>
>>   I tried looking on ebay and couldn't find any to know the relative
>>value. Anyone out there know what a Trade Paperback Legends is going
>>for?? (John?)
>>
>>Thanks ahead of time.
>>
>>Jim Luckey
>>
>>
>Probably cover price if it is as new , otherwise less. Also OZ versions
>were slightly thinner than UK Trade Paperbacks. The UK had a HB version.
>Now if we were talking the limited leather edition . between $600 and
>$1000
>--
>John
>
>john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
>http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.
>
>Raymond E Feist Ring
>http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm
>

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From: "Cameron Duncan" <cduncan@amadeus.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Legends Trade Papaerback
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 10:12:41 +1000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Cameron Duncan" <cduncan@amadeus.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Legends Trade Papaerback
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 10:12:41 +1000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I think John has a list by country of all editions available under the
'publication information' section on his web site. (www.crydee.com)
Cameron

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of
> Brad_A_Krahe@allegiance.com.au
> Sent: Friday, September 28, 2001 9:49
> To: FEISTFANS-L
> Subject: Re: Legends Trade Papaerback
> 
> 
> John,
> 
> As it seems you have more Feist books than any mortal on the list, do you
> have a listing of Hardback/Trade Paper backs and their round about $$$
> worth that you could post on your website.
> 
> Even a listing of different print versions of all the books would be very
> interesting read. It would help alot of us who don't know what books came
> out in what version.
> 
> I only ask because I assume you'd probably have something like 
> this already
> ? or is it in all your head ? Or is this a guarded object not for public
> display ?
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Brad Krahe
> SAP Business & Support Consultant
> Allegiance Systems
> 
> 
> 
> 
> John <john@crydee.com> on 28/09/2001 08:07:18
> 
> Please respond to FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> 
> To:   FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
> cc:    (bcc: Brad A Krahe/HCS)
> Subject:  Re: Legends Trade Papaerback
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jimmre@aol.com writes
> >Thanks Darragh.
> >
> >
> >   I tried looking on ebay and couldn't find any to know the relative
> >value. Anyone out there know what a Trade Paperback Legends is going
> >for?? (John?)
> >
> >Thanks ahead of time.
> >
> >Jim Luckey
> >
> >
> Probably cover price if it is as new , otherwise less. Also OZ versions
> were slightly thinner than UK Trade Paperbacks. The UK had a HB version.
> Now if we were talking the limited leather edition . between $600 and
> $1000
> --
> John
> 
> john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
> http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.
> 
> Raymond E Feist Ring
> http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 



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*** EOOH ***
From: Brad_A_Krahe@allegiance.com.au
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Aaron

Why do you want to learn Perl ? is there a reason ?

PHP allows for interaction with database's, server file access, polls,
discussion boards etc etc so if you've already started PHP keep going
unless its to improve job prospects then by all means Perl is something
that is a must depending on a job choosen.

 www.php.org has a windows help file for download, that plus
www.planet-source-code.com & to get a few working examples was all I used
to teach myself PHP.

(No I'm not a perl basher)

Mind you perl has its uses, depending on your skill lvl it shouldn't take
to long to learn enough to get you by. Don't buy any books - thats just a
waste of money in my own opion, by what you've said you can look at code
and then modify it within a short time to do as you wish, therefore your
smart enough to use internet resources dedicated programming, you can
download for free the manual and as many sample code snippets as you need
to give you a start so why buy a book ?

Regards,

Brad Krahe
SAP Business & Support Consultant
Allegiance Systems



>
>"A Irving" <aignome@dingoblue.net.au> on 28/09/2001 09:42:11
>
>Please respond to FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>
>To:   FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
>cc:    (bcc: Brad A Krahe/HCS)
>Subject:  Re: OT: Programming Languages
>
>
>
>
>From: LAR <lds627@home.com>
>> At 07:54 PM 9/26/01 -0500, James Young wrote:
>> >     Am I the only person here who rather than knowing programming
>> >languages actually bothered to learn software?  I only know Basic
>> >from my days back on the old C64 and C128...I currently work on
>> >ArcView 3.2 and am going to move into working on ArcGIS next
>> >semester as opposed to taking C++ or any other programming languages
>> >though I do know HTML and am working on learning DHTML and
>> >JavaScript for what that is worth (ie nothing).
>> >-James
>> Well for me, I have been in Software QA for over 20 years, and while I am
>> familiar with several languages, I rarely use any. I just familiarize
>> myself enough that I can read and understand the code for purposes of
>> review. Just the same, at this point I almost NEVER hire anybody who does
>> not at least know how to be proficient in C++, Java and Perl. The ability
>> to understand coding and application development is too critical. By the
>> same token, I seek people who have a strong understanding of networking,
>> application design, systems analysis and  Database Architecture and
>design.
>>
>> Larry
>I know nothing about real programming languages. But I taught myself HTML,
>a
>bit of DHTML, I don't exactly know javascript but I can sufficiently alter
>another piece of code to make it do what I want and write a few small
>scripts of my own. I am also beginning to learn a bit about PHP and I was
>wondering if someone could tell me just how hard it is to learn Perl?
>(based
>on what I do know-which is rather limited) and how long it would take
>someone to teach themself Perl if they no other real languages?
>CIAO,
>	    Aaron
>
>http://www.hallofworlds.net/kerr/main.php
>http://www.nightshadow.co.uk
>

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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 17:41:06 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT: Audiophile question
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On Thursday, September 27, 2001, at 04:14 PM, Jason Martin wrote:

> Has anyone picked up the new Dolby Pro Logic 2 processor yet or has 
> heard
> it?  From my understanding its allowing 5.1 seperation near as good as 
> Dolby
> Digital.  Reason why I ask is when I go to upgrade my reciever 
> (hopefully
> sometime soon) I may go with this or one with DTS.  I currently have a 
> Sony
> Reciever with DPL and DD and it runs great, but it is a few years old.
> Found an article on a game (Star Wars Rogue Leader 2)  for the new 
> Nintendo
> GameCube that is using this technology it from what they say they are 
> pretty
> impressed.
> Link for article:  http://cube.ign.com/news/38639.html  Just makes me 
> kind
> of bummed that you have to do an upgrade for the new sound since 
> GameCube is
> not doing Dolby Digital signals from their machine.


Last time I looked, Pro Logic 2 was designed for game application, and I 
haven't seen anything about video being encoded with it.  All the DVD's 
I've seen are either Dolby Digital or dts.   Last thing I had with Pro 
Logic on it was a laser disc.  And the last generation of lasers were 
either dts or DD.

I'd suggest you do some research, as it maybe a game process that 
upconverts to a Dolby Digital signal, or that sort of thing.  Lots of 
games are also using Q-sound, which doesn't care what kind of processor 
you have, because it's going to put out a 2 channel stereo with phase 
shifting to give you spacial illusion.

Besides, last time I looked, a majority of the processors/recievers I 
saw had both Dolby Digital and dts on board, so why choose?

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 10:40:51 +1000
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At 10:14 +1000 28/09/2001, Brad_A_Krahe@allegiance.com.au wrote:

[snip]

>Don't buy any books - thats just a
>waste of money in my own opion...

[snip]

Internet access is not universal.

A book, however, is.

There are a number of times where a reference book has saved me, as 
opposed to not being able to access the internet from a particular 
location.

[snip]

>Brad Krahe

Anestis.
-- 
kenosti@labyrinth.net.au
"A complete list of this film's associate producers
  is available upon request."
    -- In End Credits for "State and Main"



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From: "Cameron Duncan" <cduncan@amadeus.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: OT: Audiophile question
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 10:57:04 +1000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Cameron Duncan" <cduncan@amadeus.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: OT: Audiophile question
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 10:57:04 +1000
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I seem to recall a new version of Dolby Pro Logic being released that 
took a standard pro logic signal from (as an example) VHS or similar and
directed it into the 5 seperate channels.  I think this is what Pro
Logic 2 is supposed to be?

Cameron
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Raymond Feist
> Sent: Friday, September 28, 2001 10:41
> To: FEISTFANS-L
> Subject: Re: OT: Audiophile question
> 
> 
> 
> On Thursday, September 27, 2001, at 04:14 PM, Jason Martin wrote:
> 
> > Has anyone picked up the new Dolby Pro Logic 2 processor yet or has 
> > heard
> > it?  From my understanding its allowing 5.1 seperation near as good as 
> > Dolby
> > Digital.  Reason why I ask is when I go to upgrade my reciever 
> > (hopefully
> > sometime soon) I may go with this or one with DTS.  I currently have a 
> > Sony
> > Reciever with DPL and DD and it runs great, but it is a few years old.
> > Found an article on a game (Star Wars Rogue Leader 2)  for the new 
> > Nintendo
> > GameCube that is using this technology it from what they say they are 
> > pretty
> > impressed.
> > Link for article:  http://cube.ign.com/news/38639.html  Just makes me 
> > kind
> > of bummed that you have to do an upgrade for the new sound since 
> > GameCube is
> > not doing Dolby Digital signals from their machine.
> 
> 
> Last time I looked, Pro Logic 2 was designed for game application, and I 
> haven't seen anything about video being encoded with it.  All the DVD's 
> I've seen are either Dolby Digital or dts.   Last thing I had with Pro 
> Logic on it was a laser disc.  And the last generation of lasers were 
> either dts or DD.
> 
> I'd suggest you do some research, as it maybe a game process that 
> upconverts to a Dolby Digital signal, or that sort of thing.  Lots of 
> games are also using Q-sound, which doesn't care what kind of processor 
> you have, because it's going to put out a 2 channel stereo with phase 
> shifting to give you spacial illusion.
> 
> Besides, last time I looked, a majority of the processors/recievers I 
> saw had both Dolby Digital and dts on board, so why choose?
> 
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
> 
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
> stupidity.
> 
> 



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Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 11:27:32 +1000
Subject: RE: Legends Trade Papaerback
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*** EOOH ***
From: Brad_A_Krahe@allegiance.com.au
X-Lotus-FromDomain: HCS
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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Thanks Cameron.

Regards,

Brad Krahe
SAP Business & Support Consultant
Allegiance Systems



>
>"Cameron Duncan" <cduncan@amadeus.com.au> on 28/09/2001 10:12:41
>
>Please respond to FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>
>To:   FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
>cc:    (bcc: Brad A Krahe/HCS)
>Subject:  RE: Legends Trade Papaerback
>
>
>
>
>I think John has a list by country of all editions available under the
>'publication information' section on his web site. (www.crydee.com)
>Cameron
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of
>> Brad_A_Krahe@allegiance.com.au
>> Sent: Friday, September 28, 2001 9:49
>> To: FEISTFANS-L
>> Subject: Re: Legends Trade Papaerback
>>
>>
>> John,
>>
>> As it seems you have more Feist books than any mortal on the list, do you
>> have a listing of Hardback/Trade Paper backs and their round about $$$
>> worth that you could post on your website.
>>
>> Even a listing of different print versions of all the books would be very
>> interesting read. It would help alot of us who don't know what books came
>> out in what version.
>>
>> I only ask because I assume you'd probably have something like
>> this already
>> ? or is it in all your head ? Or is this a guarded object not for public
>> display ?
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Brad Krahe
>> SAP Business & Support Consultant
>> Allegiance Systems
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> John <john@crydee.com> on 28/09/2001 08:07:18
>>
>> Please respond to FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>>
>> To:   FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
>> cc:    (bcc: Brad A Krahe/HCS)
>> Subject:  Re: Legends Trade Papaerback
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Jimmre@aol.com writes
>> >Thanks Darragh.
>> >
>> >
>> >   I tried looking on ebay and couldn't find any to know the relative
>> >value. Anyone out there know what a Trade Paperback Legends is going
>> >for?? (John?)
>> >
>> >Thanks ahead of time.
>> >
>> >Jim Luckey
>> >
>> >
>> Probably cover price if it is as new , otherwise less. Also OZ versions
>> were slightly thinner than UK Trade Paperbacks. The UK had a HB version.
>> Now if we were talking the limited leather edition . between $600 and
>> $1000
>> --
>> John
>>
>> john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
>> http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.
>>
>> Raymond E Feist Ring
>> http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm
>>

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Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 11:27:01 +1000
Subject: Re: OT: Programming Languages
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From: Brad_A_Krahe@allegiance.com.au
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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 11:27:01 +1000
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Anestis.

That's why you download the manual and print it off.

Sorry, if you or the list I assume you have internet access. There's always
a library/school/cyber cafe/friends house so these days its not that hard
to access the internet. Considering here in Australia a good code book
(believe me they are hard to find) are worth well over $100.00 which is to
much for some people to pay - where as going to your  library/school/cyber
cafe/friends house and printing off a manual on-line is alot cheaper.

No offense, but he wants to learn Perl, Knows PHP,html/java script a little
- common sense implies he must have an internet connection somewhere to use
otherwise why learn ???? I'm amazed how often people prefer to flame others
rather than be helpful which is all I'm trying to do, so if you haven't got
any helpful comments - don't post.

Regards,

Brad Krahe
SAP Business & Support Consultant
Allegiance Systems



>
>Anestis Kozakis <kenosti@labyrinth.net.au> on 28/09/2001 10:40:51
>
>Please respond to FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>
>To:   FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
>cc:    (bcc: Brad A Krahe/HCS)
>Subject:  Re: OT: Programming Languages
>
>
>
>
>At 10:14 +1000 28/09/2001, Brad_A_Krahe@allegiance.com.au wrote:
>
>[snip]
>
>>Don't buy any books - thats just a
>>waste of money in my own opion...
>
>[snip]
>
>Internet access is not universal.
>
>A book, however, is.
>
>There are a number of times where a reference book has saved me, as
>opposed to not being able to access the internet from a particular
>location.
>
>[snip]
>
>>Brad Krahe
>
>Anestis.
>--
>kenosti@labyrinth.net.au
>"A complete list of this film's associate producers
>  is available upon request."
>    -- In End Credits for "State and Main"
>

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Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 11:51:28 +1000
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From: Anestis Kozakis <kenosti@labyrinth.net.au>
Subject: Re: OT: Programming Languages
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Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 11:51:28 +1000
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Anestis Kozakis <kenosti@labyrinth.net.au>
Subject: Re: OT: Programming Languages
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

At 11:27 +1000 28/09/2001, Brad_A_Krahe@allegiance.com.au wrote:
>Anestis.
>
>That's why you download the manual and print it off.
>
>Sorry, if you or the list I assume you have internet access. There's always
>a library/school/cyber cafe/friends house so these days its not that hard
>to access the internet. Considering here in Australia a good code book
>(believe me they are hard to find) are worth well over $100.00 which is to
>much for some people to pay - where as going to your  library/school/cyber
>cafe/friends house and printing off a manual on-line is alot cheaper.
>
>No offense, but he wants to learn Perl, Knows PHP,html/java script a little
>- common sense implies he must have an internet connection somewhere to use
>otherwise why learn ???? I'm amazed how often people prefer to flame others
>rather than be helpful which is all I'm trying to do, so if you haven't got
>any helpful comments - don't post.

I wasn't flaming.  I was pointing out a simple fact.

If you need me to expand, then I will.

There are times when you're working on a critical project, but you 
are not in a position to access the internet at that particular point 
in time.

I have found that having a reference book by the side the quickest 
way to access what I need.

Ok, so you can print off manuals etc.  But that also costs money 
(paper, cartridges, binding materials), and sometimes can be more 
expensive than buying a reference book (especially if the book has 
many colour illustrations).

If you decide to print off what you think you might need, what 
happens when you come across a problem that's not covered in what 
you've printed off?

Also, with trying to find information online, quite often, you need 
to switch application windows.  Having a reference book next to you 
is often quicker.

Yes, I admit, reference books in Australia cost a lot, but overall, I 
think they are a good investment for any programmer.

If you thought what I said was a flame, then you were sadly mistaken. 
You posted your opinion.  I posted mine.

>Regards,
>Brad Krahe

Anestis.

>Anestis Kozakis <kenosti@labyrinth.net.au> on 28/09/2001 10:40:51
>
>Please respond to FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>
>At 10:14 +1000 28/09/2001, Brad_A_Krahe@allegiance.com.au wrote:
>
>[snip]
>
>  >Don't buy any books - thats just a
>  >waste of money in my own opion...
>
>[snip]
>
>Internet access is not universal.
>
>A book, however, is.
>
>There are a number of times where a reference book has saved me, as
>opposed to not being able to access the internet from a particular
>location.
>
>[snip]
>
>>Brad Krahe
>
>Anestis.
-- 
kenosti@labyrinth.net.au
"A complete list of this film's associate producers
  is available upon request."
    -- In End Credits for "State and Main"



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Subject: Re: OT: Audiophile question
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From: "Jason Martin" <res0b95g@verizon.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT: Audiophile question
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 18:57:38 -0700
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Raymond Feist" <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2001 5:41 PM
Subject: Re: OT: Audiophile question


>
> On Thursday, September 27, 2001, at 04:14 PM, Jason Martin wrote:
>
> > Has anyone picked up the new Dolby Pro Logic 2 processor yet or has
> > heard
> > it?  From my understanding its allowing 5.1 seperation near as good as
> > Dolby
> > Digital.  Reason why I ask is when I go to upgrade my reciever
> > (hopefully
> > sometime soon) I may go with this or one with DTS.  I currently have a
> > Sony
> > Reciever with DPL and DD and it runs great, but it is a few years old.
> > Found an article on a game (Star Wars Rogue Leader 2)  for the new
> > Nintendo
> > GameCube that is using this technology it from what they say they are
> > pretty
> > impressed.
> > Link for article:  http://cube.ign.com/news/38639.html  Just makes me
> > kind
> > of bummed that you have to do an upgrade for the new sound since
> > GameCube is
> > not doing Dolby Digital signals from their machine.
>
>
> Last time I looked, Pro Logic 2 was designed for game application, and I
> haven't seen anything about video being encoded with it.  All the DVD's
> I've seen are either Dolby Digital or dts.   Last thing I had with Pro
> Logic on it was a laser disc.  And the last generation of lasers were
> either dts or DD.
>
> I'd suggest you do some research, as it maybe a game process that
> upconverts to a Dolby Digital signal, or that sort of thing.  Lots of
> games are also using Q-sound, which doesn't care what kind of processor
> you have, because it's going to put out a 2 channel stereo with phase
> shifting to give you spacial illusion.
>
> Besides, last time I looked, a majority of the processors/recievers I
> saw had both Dolby Digital and dts on board, so why choose?
>
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
>
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
> stupidity.
>
    Well I think the other  instances besides gaming use is for VHS tapes.
Most of them are done in Pro Logic and with DPL2 it will split it into 5.1
so to speak.  I think what is happening is Dolby is providing companies with
a cheaper alternative to produce recievers for.  Though the prices for DPL2
from what i have seen range in the $500-600 area.  Just curious if anyone
will have  a DPL2 and DTS chip much like you  see today with DPL, DD and
DTS.
    Personally if I can get a chance to upgrade in the near future, I'm
probably leaning more and more towars a Amp setup.  It will run more, but I
think the sound is better.  Though with the TV (65" WideScreen) I want to
get I'll probably have to get a new House just to accomodate it... Oh the
Irony...  Its fun to dream though.

Jason



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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT: Programming Languages
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Both really and neither :) While I was learning the basics of writing a 
compiler (which included several programming assignments) I was taking 
the Ada programming language as a class. So I did all my compiler 
assignments in Ada. My situation differs in that I didn't have to 
completely teach myself the language, but I did have to greatly 
accelerate my learning of the language on my own.

Vi syns,
Bret

Diamond Joe wrote:

> But were you just learning different languages? Or were you taking courses
> that were based on you knowing the language already and building on that?
> The second half of Computer programming was based on that i should already
> know what was taught in the first half. I did, but I knew it in the wrong
> language.
> 
> Basically what i was doing was going from Grade 9 French, to Grade 10
> spanish. They expected me to know the basic syntaxes in that language
> already so the could build the vocabulary. Doesn't work so easy :) I knew
> what i had to do to solve the programs, just had to figure out HOW to do it
> in C++ instead of Pascal.
> 
> Didn't help that i had a different C++ on my home computer from what they
> were teaching in the University. I was basically trying to learn 2 NEW
> languages that i should have known going into that course....:)
> 
> Joseph
> 
> 
>>Heh, I did that for my entire degree (Computer Science). Each semester,
>>I took a different language as one of my courses. In all my concept
>>courses each semester (File Systems, Operating Systems, etc) I did all
>>programming work in that language.
>>
>>I took Compiler Writing the same semester I took Ada. That one tested my
>>resolve :)
>>
>>Bret
>>
>>Joseph Smith wrote:
>>
>>
>>>You should try what happened to me. They split first
>>>year programming into 2 half courses here. I wasn't
>>>going into Programming as a courseload, so the first
>>>year of Uni, i took the first half.....the next year i
>>>decided to take the second half.
>>>
>>>No problem. Except that the first year they were
>>>teaching using Pascal for both halves of the course.
>>>The next year they were using C++ for both halves. So
>>>not only did i need to learn what they were teaching
>>>THAT semester, I had to learn the basics of C++ that
>>>they had taught the first sememster. Talk about fun
>>>times. :)
>>>
>>>Joseph Smith
>>>
>>>
> 
> 
> 
> _________________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
> 
> 



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Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 20:32:46 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT: Audiophile question
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On Thursday, September 27, 2001, at 06:57 PM, Jason Martin wrote:

>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Raymond Feist" <raymond@bittersea.com>
> To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2001 5:41 PM
> Subject: Re: OT: Audiophile question
>
>
>>
>> On Thursday, September 27, 2001, at 04:14 PM, Jason Martin wrote:
>>
>>> Has anyone picked up the new Dolby Pro Logic 2 processor yet or has
>>> heard
>>> it?  From my understanding its allowing 5.1 seperation near as good as
>>> Dolby
>>> Digital.  Reason why I ask is when I go to upgrade my reciever
>>> (hopefully
>>> sometime soon) I may go with this or one with DTS.  I currently have a
>>> Sony
>>> Reciever with DPL and DD and it runs great, but it is a few years old.
>>> Found an article on a game (Star Wars Rogue Leader 2)  for the new
>>> Nintendo
>>> GameCube that is using this technology it from what they say they are
>>> pretty
>>> impressed.
>>> Link for article:  http://cube.ign.com/news/38639.html  Just makes me
>>> kind
>>> of bummed that you have to do an upgrade for the new sound since
>>> GameCube is
>>> not doing Dolby Digital signals from their machine.
>>
>>
>> Last time I looked, Pro Logic 2 was designed for game application, 
>> and I
>> haven't seen anything about video being encoded with it.  All the DVD's
>> I've seen are either Dolby Digital or dts.   Last thing I had with Pro
>> Logic on it was a laser disc.  And the last generation of lasers were
>> either dts or DD.
>>
>> I'd suggest you do some research, as it maybe a game process that
>> upconverts to a Dolby Digital signal, or that sort of thing.  Lots of
>> games are also using Q-sound, which doesn't care what kind of processor
>> you have, because it's going to put out a 2 channel stereo with phase
>> shifting to give you spacial illusion.
>>
>> Besides, last time I looked, a majority of the processors/recievers I
>> saw had both Dolby Digital and dts on board, so why choose?
>>
>> Best, R.E.F.
>> ----
>>
>> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
>> stupidity.
>>
>     Well I think the other  instances besides gaming use is for VHS 
> tapes.
> Most of them are done in Pro Logic and with DPL2 it will split it into 
> 5.1
> so to speak.  I think what is happening is Dolby is providing companies 
> with
> a cheaper alternative to produce recievers for.  Though the prices for 
> DPL2
> from what i have seen range in the $500-600 area.  Just curious if 
> anyone
> will have  a DPL2 and DTS chip much like you  see today with DPL, DD and
> DTS.
>     Personally if I can get a chance to upgrade in the near future, I'm
> probably leaning more and more towars a Amp setup.  It will run more, 
> but I
> think the sound is better.  Though with the TV (65" WideScreen) I want 
> to
> get I'll probably have to get a new House just to accomodate it... Oh 
> the
> Irony...  Its fun to dream though.
>
> Jason
>
>

OK, then I know what it is.  There's a phase sensitive logic that breaks 
down two channel and gives an illusion of surround.  How they get the .1 
out of it, I don't know, because either you've got subwoofer data or you 
don't.  Last time I looked, didn't see a lot of really low base recorded 
on tape, but then I haven't exactly been paying attention to the 
dynamics of sound on tape for over ten years, so what do I know?  My 
Mitsubishi has a similar chip in it, and because of a lot of reasons 
(little space for speakers and a need not to spend extra money) I have 
no big amp (my ex-wife got my old Yamaha), and I'm pretty impressed with 
the sound logic.

This must be Dolby's brand of that sort of thing.

WIthout hearing it, I can tell you PL2 can't be as accurate in imaging 
as the true 5.1s, because the encoding is in 2 track.  It could still 
sound pretty good.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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From: Aaron Irving <s355156@student.uq.edu.au>
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Subject: Re: OT: Programming Languages
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Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 13:32:50 +1000 (GMT+1000)
From: Aaron Irving <s355156@student.uq.edu.au>
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On Fri, 28 Sep 2001, Anestis Kozakis wrote:
> >Sorry, if you or the list I assume you have internet access. There's always
> >a library/school/cyber cafe/friends house so these days its not that hard
> >to access the internet. Considering here in Australia a good code book
> >(believe me they are hard to find) are worth well over $100.00 which is to
> >much for some people to pay - where as going to your  library/school/cyber
> >cafe/friends house and printing off a manual on-line is alot cheaper.
> >
> >No offense, but he wants to learn Perl, Knows PHP,html/java script a little
> >- common sense implies he must have an internet connection somewhere to use
> >otherwise why learn ???? I'm amazed how often people prefer to flame others
> >rather than be helpful which is all I'm trying to do, so if you haven't got
> >any helpful comments - don't post.
>
> I wasn't flaming.  I was pointing out a simple fact.
>
> If you need me to expand, then I will.
>
> There are times when you're working on a critical project, but you
> are not in a position to access the internet at that particular point
> in time.
>
> Anestis.
Thanks for your help Brad, and I see your point Anestis. But the main
reason I am interested in the above is for internet based applications. I
write web pages for a hobby. I have an extensive Katharine Kerr web page
and a few other ones about various things. I was interested in writing my
own scripts, for various purposes and I just like coding (I know, that
sounds so nerdy). Most of the time I do have access to the internet (when
working on the projects) but a lot of the time books are a lot more
helpful (like for my Molecular Genetics and Diseases exam next week).
Thanks again for your help.
CIAO,
    Aaron

http://www.hallofworlds.net/kerr/main.php
http://www.nightshadow.co.uk/index3.phtml



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Subject: Re: OT: Audiophile question
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From: "Darren McClung" <d@dwmc.org>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT: Audiophile question
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 22:42:18 -0500
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Even integrated amps are decent.  Pro Logic is dead.  Anything of any note
has been remastered and rereleased on DVD in true DD5.1  or (even better DTS
6.1 discreet.  No matter how you process it, Pro Logic is still an imperfect
algorithm that matrixes out all of its channels from a 2 channel source.

The only place where DD hasn't taken hold yet are dynamic applications.
(read: games)  We're not there yet, but I don't see a dynamic DD algorithm
to be far in the future.

And yes, if you REALLY care about sound, go for a preamp/processor-amp
setup.  Even a relatively inexpensive processor and amp from a company like
NAD will sound much better than most receivers.  Also, don't shop at chain
stores.  Shop around for local audio shops.  This can be an interesting
experience though,  as audiophiles tend to be a pretentious lot.  There are
the exceptions however.  If you keep looking eventually you'll find a store
and salesmen that will be willing to spend time with you and give you honest
opinions, and will get you the most for your money.

Darren

>     Personally if I can get a chance to upgrade in the near future, I'm
> probably leaning more and more towars a Amp setup.  It will run more, but I
> think the sound is better.  Though with the TV (65" WideScreen) I want to
> get I'll probably have to get a new House just to accomodate it... Oh the
> Irony...  Its fun to dream though.
>
> Jason
>



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From: "Cameron Duncan" <cduncan@amadeus.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: OT: Audiophile question
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 13:59:44 +1000
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From: "Cameron Duncan" <cduncan@amadeus.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: OT: Audiophile question
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 13:59:44 +1000
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For those of you that are interested, Dolby has a rundown on what exactly
Pro Logic 2 is at the following link -
http://www.dolby.com/ht/co.br.0107.PLIIListenersGuide.html

Makes for some very interesting reading.
(hmmm, might be time to upgrade my Dolby Digital Amp! :))

Cameron



> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Raymond Feist" <raymond@bittersea.com>
> > To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> > Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2001 5:41 PM
> > Subject: Re: OT: Audiophile question
> >
> >
> >>
> >> On Thursday, September 27, 2001, at 04:14 PM, Jason Martin wrote:
> >>
> >>> Has anyone picked up the new Dolby Pro Logic 2 processor yet or has
> >>> heard
> >>> it?  From my understanding its allowing 5.1 seperation near as good as
> >>> Dolby
> >>> Digital.  Reason why I ask is when I go to upgrade my reciever
> >>> (hopefully
> >>> sometime soon) I may go with this or one with DTS.  I currently have a
> >>> Sony
> >>> Reciever with DPL and DD and it runs great, but it is a few years old.
> >>> Found an article on a game (Star Wars Rogue Leader 2)  for the new
> >>> Nintendo
> >>> GameCube that is using this technology it from what they say they are
> >>> pretty
> >>> impressed.
> >>> Link for article:  http://cube.ign.com/news/38639.html  Just makes me
> >>> kind
> >>> of bummed that you have to do an upgrade for the new sound since
> >>> GameCube is
> >>> not doing Dolby Digital signals from their machine.
> >>
> >>
> >> Last time I looked, Pro Logic 2 was designed for game application,
> >> and I
> >> haven't seen anything about video being encoded with it.  All the DVD's
> >> I've seen are either Dolby Digital or dts.   Last thing I had with Pro
> >> Logic on it was a laser disc.  And the last generation of lasers were
> >> either dts or DD.
> >>
> >> I'd suggest you do some research, as it maybe a game process that
> >> upconverts to a Dolby Digital signal, or that sort of thing.  Lots of
> >> games are also using Q-sound, which doesn't care what kind of processor
> >> you have, because it's going to put out a 2 channel stereo with phase
> >> shifting to give you spacial illusion.
> >>
> >> Besides, last time I looked, a majority of the processors/recievers I
> >> saw had both Dolby Digital and dts on board, so why choose?
> >>
> >> Best, R.E.F.
> >> ----
> >>
> >> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
> >> stupidity.
> >>
> >     Well I think the other  instances besides gaming use is for VHS
> > tapes.
> > Most of them are done in Pro Logic and with DPL2 it will split it into
> > 5.1
> > so to speak.  I think what is happening is Dolby is providing companies
> > with
> > a cheaper alternative to produce recievers for.  Though the prices for
> > DPL2
> > from what i have seen range in the $500-600 area.  Just curious if
> > anyone
> > will have  a DPL2 and DTS chip much like you  see today with DPL, DD and
> > DTS.
> >     Personally if I can get a chance to upgrade in the near future, I'm
> > probably leaning more and more towars a Amp setup.  It will run more,
> > but I
> > think the sound is better.  Though with the TV (65" WideScreen) I want
> > to
> > get I'll probably have to get a new House just to accomodate it... Oh
> > the
> > Irony...  Its fun to dream though.
> >
> > Jason
> >
> >
>
> OK, then I know what it is.  There's a phase sensitive logic that breaks
> down two channel and gives an illusion of surround.  How they get the .1
> out of it, I don't know, because either you've got subwoofer data or you
> don't.  Last time I looked, didn't see a lot of really low base recorded
> on tape, but then I haven't exactly been paying attention to the
> dynamics of sound on tape for over ten years, so what do I know?  My
> Mitsubishi has a similar chip in it, and because of a lot of reasons
> (little space for speakers and a need not to spend extra money) I have
> no big amp (my ex-wife got my old Yamaha), and I'm pretty impressed with
> the sound logic.
>
> This must be Dolby's brand of that sort of thing.
>
> WIthout hearing it, I can tell you PL2 can't be as accurate in imaging
> as the true 5.1s, because the encoding is in 2 track.  It could still
> sound pretty good.
>
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
>
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
> stupidity.
>
>



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References: <20010926112636.88025.qmail@web14603.mail.yahoo.com> <004901c14687$80adfd20$2d911dcb@heechee>
Subject: Re: Programming Languages
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 23:15:41 -0500
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Chad Keffer" <feistfan@chadkeffer.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Programming Languages
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 23:15:41 -0500
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What a whacky curriculum.  My intro to programming class was in C++, as was
my intermediate level class, and my intro to object-oriented programming was
also C++.  The school has completely dropped COBOL, Pascal, and FORTRAN.

----- Original Message -----
From: "James Barker" <heechee@softhome.net>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2001 7:33 AM
Subject: OT: Programming Languages



----- Original Message -----
>From: Joshua Slavkin <j_solo_2000@yahoo.com>
>To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
>Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2001 9:26 PM
>Subject: RE: Last Chance on the Poll
>
>
>> The Turing programming language was a graduate
>>  thesis at the University of
>>  Toronto (UofT).  It was, and may still be, the
>>  programming language of
>>  choice in introductory Computer Programming courses
>>  there.  In syntax it is
>>  very similar to Pascal.  I personally know of no one
>>  outside of UofT who has
>>  used this language.
>
>*Sigh* Pascal... I've just spent three weeks writing a simple database
>managing program with TurboPASCAL for an IT assignment. The worst part was
>that my teacher has basic knowledge, and gave us some dodgy textbook, when
>there was an infinitely better one in the library. Imagine my reaction upon
>discovering (from the better book) two days before the due date that there
>was a special little feature to do in two lines what had previously taken me
>100 (and a lot of fooling around with unnecessary global variables)...
>
>Not happy, Jan!
>
>I can't wait to actually start C++ next year...
>
>Cheers,
>James
>


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Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 15:44:39 +1000
From: "Jason Mulligan" <sulimo@bigpond.net.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT: Audiophile question
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On 27/09/2001 at 10:42 PM Darren McClung wrote:

>Even integrated amps are decent.  Pro Logic is dead.  Anything of any note
>has been remastered and rereleased on DVD in true DD5.1  or (even better
>DTS 6.1 discreet.  No matter how you process it, Pro Logic is still an
>imperfect algorithm that matrixes out all of its channels from a 2 channel source.

Yeah. PL-2 is just around to create 5.1 like audio (it obviously wont be as good 
real 5.1) for all your 2 channel sources (CD's, VHS, etc). 

The few reviews I've seen have all been quite positive.

>The only place where DD hasn't taken hold yet are dynamic applications.
>(read: games)  We're not there yet, but I don't see a dynamic DD algorithm
>to be far in the future.

Although the X-Box and PC's that have the same audio chipset (NVidia has 
brought out an intergrated chipset which should appear on motherboards 
soon) ancodes DD in realtime so you'll be able to play games in DD soonish.
 



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To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Magician - Author's Preferred Edition 2002
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 08:53:50 +0100
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From: "Michael Gibson" <gibbyfish@yahoo.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Magician - Author's Preferred Edition 2002
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 08:53:50 +0100
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> Firesight <wolfriderfiresight@hotmail.com> writes
> >Well,
> >
> >If this rumor about a leatherbound 20th Anneversary Magician are ture, then
> >I'm gonna same my pennies and get one!
> >
>
> Here is a response I had from a contact at HC
>
> Yes, we're still going for a 20th anniversary MAGICIAN -- probably just
> a
> limited hardback, rather than leatherbound. It's scheduled for September
> 2002. I don't think we can make an economic case for reissuing the other
> titles, though.

So you didn't tell your contact about yourself then? ;)

Anyway, woohoo about the Magician re-release - it may be the first Feist book I
buy in hardback (although I was sorely tempted by HE, and the spectre of
Conclave...).

Mike,
Gibfish of the West.
                                          Check out my forums at:
"To question is often intelligent.        http://www.tonrae.co.uk/forums/
To trust rightly is to be inspired."


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com



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Subject: Re: OT: Programming Languages
In-Reply-To: <019101c147ae$08542b60$f1f6fea9@oemcomputer>
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Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 08:53:15 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: OT: Programming Languages
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At 09:42 AM 9/28/01 +1000, A Irving wrote:
>I am also beginning to learn a bit about PHP and I was
>wondering if someone could tell me just how hard it is to learn Perl? (based
>on what I do know-which is rather limited) and how long it would take
>someone to teach themself Perl if they no other real languages?

Perl is simple.  There are a couple basic concepts to get
your head around, and then it is just programming.  Your
scripts can be as simple or complex as you want.

The O'Reilly "Introduction to Perl Programming" gives you
the basics and doesn't assume you have experience in other
languages.

rip



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From: "Michael Gibson" <gibbyfish@yahoo.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: OT: Programming Languages
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 08:53:52 +0100
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> Programming languages are simply tools. You know the saying: if all you
> have is a hammer, all the problems tend to look like nails.
>
> Different programming languages have different strengths and weaknesses.
> Knowing several different kinds of languages gives you a leg up when
> developing "real" software.
>
> The ideal is to define the nature of the problem, design (at a high
> level) the appropriate solution, choose the language (that meets the
> high level goals of the solution), do the detailed design, code, test,
> design, code, test, ...
>
> The requirements of the high level solution will (should) dictate your
> programming language.
>
> Personally I know several different kinds of languages: C, C++, Java,
> Perl, Ksh, sed, awk, PHP, Tcl, Javascript, CLIPS, even a couple
> different assembly languages, and if you insist on calling it a
> programming language, (D)HTML too. But my skill (what I pay the mortgage
> with) is solving large problems with large pieces of software. I not
> only need to know how to build good software, but be able to integrate
> several large pieces, often written in different languages.

Aye - (a vast simplification) you get the modules, and shape their edges so they
fit together.  It's amazing how much you can do with a little assembly code, but
to do something large scale, you have to use a higher level language (or sit
around for AGES).

Anyway, I have to make a gui out of that hypertext stuff...

Mike,
Gibfish of the West.
                                          Check out my forums at:
"To question is often intelligent.        http://www.tonrae.co.uk/forums/
To trust rightly is to be inspired."


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com



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From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: OT: Programming Languages
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Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 09:09:22 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: OT: Programming Languages
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

At 10:14 AM 9/28/01 +1000, Brad_A_Krahe@allegiance.com.au wrote:
>Aaron
>
>Why do you want to learn Perl ? is there a reason ?
>
>PHP allows for interaction with database's, server file access, polls,
>discussion boards etc etc so if you've already started PHP keep going
>unless its to improve job prospects then by all means Perl is something
>that is a must depending on a job choosen.

um.  Starting out with "Why do you want to learn Perl?
is there a reason?" tells me that you are a language
snob.  

Every language has a purpose.  That purpose may be known
by you, or not.  Also, any language can be used to solve
just about any software problem.  

The trick is to know /which/ problems are best solved by
/which/ languages.  If you dissuade someone from learning
a language because of your own prejudices, then you aren't
helping.

If he is interested in learning Perl, then you give him
pointers on learning Perl.  You don't imply that Perl is
useless 'unless the current job you are working on requires
it'.  There is /nothing/, /no/ /thing/, that precludes
someone from knowing both Perl and PHP.

>www.php.org has a windows help file for download, that plus
>www.planet-source-code.com & to get a few working examples was all I used
>to teach myself PHP.

www.cpan.org has a windows help file for download, it
also has several thousand working examples and is really
all you need to teach yourself Perl. *grimaces* Albeit,
if you know where to look.  I'd also suggest 
www.perlmonks.org.  Lots of helpful people.

>(No I'm not a perl basher)

Maybe, maybe not.  But you come across as having a very 
different attitude towards programming and programming 
languages than I do.

>Mind you perl has its uses, depending on your skill lvl it shouldn't take
>to long to learn enough to get you by. Don't buy any books - thats just a
>...
>to give you a start so why buy a book ?

O'Reilly's "The PERL Cookbook" is the reason you buy the book.

rip



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Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 09:31:58 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: OT: Programming Languages
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At 11:27 AM 9/28/01 +1000, Brad_A_Krahe@allegiance.com.au wrote:
>Anestis.
>
>That's why you download the manual and print it off.

GMAB.  Do you know how wasteful that is in resources and
time?  Oh, I get it, you go to a friends house and use their
ink/toner/electricity and probably paper, too.  So it's
not a waste of /your/ resources, so it doesn't matter.

>Sorry, if you or the list I assume you have internet access. 

*buzzer* Sorry Mr. Contestant! You've made a false assumption!
What do we have for our contestant, Johnny?

I used to be a technical support engineer.  In two instances
I had to go on-site to diagnose and solve a couple of really
wicked problems.  While on-site at the customers, I was not
given access to the Internet because they were both 
military-industrial houses and the systems in use were 
not public.  They didn't even have email.  

If I did not have my books, I would not have been able to
solve the problems.

Also, I'd like to know how I'm supposed to get Internet
access on the bus on my way to and from work?

>There's always
>a library/school/cyber cafe/friends house so these days its not that hard
>to access the internet. Considering here in Australia a good code book
>(believe me they are hard to find) are worth well over $100.00 which is to
>much for some people to pay - where as going to your  library/school/cyber
>cafe/friends house and printing off a manual on-line is alot cheaper.

*scoffs*  'Cheaper' maybe financially, but how much is 
your time worth.  You're a consultant (it says there), so
I'm pretty sure you know to the nearest quarter-hour how 
much your time is worth.

rip


>No offense, but he wants to learn Perl, Knows PHP,html/java script a little
>- common sense implies he must have an internet connection somewhere to use
>otherwise why learn ???? 

I use perl all the time.  For the stuff I'm doing at work,
it is quicker to debug then trying to compile c or c++,
is easier to modify quickly to try something out, and
/I'm not using it for the web/.  It is a tool.  Nothing
more, nothing less.

>I'm amazed how often people prefer to flame others
>rather than be helpful which is all I'm trying to do, so if you haven't got
>any helpful comments - don't post.

Anestis was helpfully pointing out that you yourself
weren't being helpful.   

rip



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Richard or is that Dick ?

LOL language snob! You have no idea who I am or what I do or have done.

The only reason I asked is why learn Perl is because if he's learning or
already knows other languages which can cover what he is attempting to do,
why burden him with learning  another language unless there is a reason.

By the way I know Perl, use it only when required, why over complicate ?

Again for the people who can't seem to understand - the reason I suggested
on-line Vs books is because some people can't afford $$$ on books and what
you would recommend as a good starting point/best book ever!!! may not suit
the other person. Let them understand a little bit about the language (for
free) then they can make up their own mind when it comes to spending money
on reference texts - there's nothing worse than someone saying "Hay! use
this" when its not the book for you and you regret the money you spent!. I
don't like influencing people when money is involved on mailing list where
he doesn't know (maybe/maybe not) the people giving advice.

O'Reilly's "The PERL Cookbook" is the reason you buy the book. - Hm.....
who's the snob now! maybe help the person out by explaining your
justification ?

I was never trying to dissuade his choice just.

"Maybe, maybe not.  But you come across as having a very
different attitude towards programming and programming
languages than I do."

- Due to real professional experience would be the reason. (Yes now I'm
being a snob)

Maybe I just expect to much out of people................


Regards,

Brad Krahe
SAP Business & Support Consultant
Allegiance Systems



>
>Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com> on 28/09/2001
>18:09:22
>
>Please respond to FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>
>To:   FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
>cc:    (bcc: Brad A Krahe/HCS)
>Subject:  Re: OT: Programming Languages
>
>
>
>
>At 10:14 AM 9/28/01 +1000, Brad_A_Krahe@allegiance.com.au wrote:
>>Aaron
>>
>>Why do you want to learn Perl ? is there a reason ?
>>
>>PHP allows for interaction with database's, server file access, polls,
>>discussion boards etc etc so if you've already started PHP keep going
>>unless its to improve job prospects then by all means Perl is something
>>that is a must depending on a job choosen.
>
>um.  Starting out with "Why do you want to learn Perl?
>is there a reason?" tells me that you are a language
>snob.
>
>Every language has a purpose.  That purpose may be known
>by you, or not.  Also, any language can be used to solve
>just about any software problem.
>
>The trick is to know /which/ problems are best solved by
>/which/ languages.  If you dissuade someone from learning
>a language because of your own prejudices, then you aren't
>helping.
>
>If he is interested in learning Perl, then you give him
>pointers on learning Perl.  You don't imply that Perl is
>useless 'unless the current job you are working on requires
>it'.  There is /nothing/, /no/ /thing/, that precludes
>someone from knowing both Perl and PHP.
>
>>www.php.org has a windows help file for download, that plus
>>www.planet-source-code.com & to get a few working examples was all I used
>>to teach myself PHP.
>
>www.cpan.org has a windows help file for download, it
>also has several thousand working examples and is really
>all you need to teach yourself Perl. *grimaces* Albeit,
>if you know where to look.  I'd also suggest
>www.perlmonks.org.  Lots of helpful people.
>
>>(No I'm not a perl basher)
>
>Maybe, maybe not.  But you come across as having a very
>different attitude towards programming and programming
>languages than I do.
>
>>Mind you perl has its uses, depending on your skill lvl it shouldn't take
>>to long to learn enough to get you by. Don't buy any books - thats just a
>>...
>>to give you a start so why buy a book ?
>
>O'Reilly's "The PERL Cookbook" is the reason you buy the book.
>
>rip
>

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From: Brad_A_Krahe@allegiance.com.au
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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 19:08:12 +1000
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Judging by your language and reliance on books, you must be very young and
not very good and what you do! your little story was not impressive at all
to myself. Why do wannabe's drop in the "Military" word.

The printing off part was for the poeple that need the comfort of a hard
copy such as yourself.

Yes I'm a consultant, with the same company for 5 years now. You just don't
know how many times I get called out when text book jockey's like yourself
have made mistakes. Thats why I get paid as much as I do. Clients like to
see someone how can walk in, know what their doing and fix their problem -
looking it up! as you do would cost my clients to much downtime and money.

If you were as half a good as you think you are, you'd be a consultant,
otherwise you wouldn't go on about it.

I don't get billed out by the quater hour, little jobs like that I leave
for the likes of you.

Goodbye......................

Regards,

Brad Krahe
SAP Business & Support Consultant
Allegiance Systems



>
>Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com> on 28/09/2001
>18:31:58
>
>Please respond to FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>
>To:   FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
>cc:    (bcc: Brad A Krahe/HCS)
>Subject:  Re: OT: Programming Languages
>
>
>
>
>At 11:27 AM 9/28/01 +1000, Brad_A_Krahe@allegiance.com.au wrote:
>>Anestis.
>>
>>That's why you download the manual and print it off.
>
>GMAB.  Do you know how wasteful that is in resources and
>time?  Oh, I get it, you go to a friends house and use their
>ink/toner/electricity and probably paper, too.  So it's
>not a waste of /your/ resources, so it doesn't matter.
>
>>Sorry, if you or the list I assume you have internet access.
>
>*buzzer* Sorry Mr. Contestant! You've made a false assumption!
>What do we have for our contestant, Johnny?
>
>I used to be a technical support engineer.  In two instances
>I had to go on-site to diagnose and solve a couple of really
>wicked problems.  While on-site at the customers, I was not
>given access to the Internet because they were both
>military-industrial houses and the systems in use were
>not public.  They didn't even have email.
>
>If I did not have my books, I would not have been able to
>solve the problems.
>
>Also, I'd like to know how I'm supposed to get Internet
>access on the bus on my way to and from work?
>
>>There's always
>>a library/school/cyber cafe/friends house so these days its not that hard
>>to access the internet. Considering here in Australia a good code book
>>(believe me they are hard to find) are worth well over $100.00 which is to
>>much for some people to pay - where as going to your  library/school/cyber
>>cafe/friends house and printing off a manual on-line is alot cheaper.
>
>*scoffs*  'Cheaper' maybe financially, but how much is
>your time worth.  You're a consultant (it says there), so
>I'm pretty sure you know to the nearest quarter-hour how
>much your time is worth.
>
>rip
>
>
>>No offense, but he wants to learn Perl, Knows PHP,html/java script a
>little
>>- common sense implies he must have an internet connection somewhere to
>use
>>otherwise why learn ????
>
>I use perl all the time.  For the stuff I'm doing at work,
>it is quicker to debug then trying to compile c or c++,
>is easier to modify quickly to try something out, and
>/I'm not using it for the web/.  It is a tool.  Nothing
>more, nothing less.
>
>>I'm amazed how often people prefer to flame others
>>rather than be helpful which is all I'm trying to do, so if you haven't
>got
>>any helpful comments - don't post.
>
>Anestis was helpfully pointing out that you yourself
>weren't being helpful.
>
>rip
>

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Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 10:20:19 +0100
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Subject: Poll closure
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Hello All,

I've just taken a snapshot of the poll results, and
the address of the page with the data is 
http://www.ferkel.co.uk/pl_fei_results.html

If anyone else wants to take the poll that's ok, but
I don't know when I'll next update the results.  In
any case, that file above will be where the latest
published results will be.

139 valid respondents, which is about 25% of you.  I'd say that
the margin of error is +/- 2.5% given that there are maybe three 
response forms left in that I consider to be 'dubious' but 
couldn't really decide if they were someone trying to be 'funny'.

80% male.
39% 18-24 (29% 25-30).
69% never married.
43% North American.
80% no children.
3 sets of twins.
50% collect books.
10% were/are in the military (Officers 3, Enlisted 7,
    1 active reservist...)
66% can write code.
1 Grandparent.
3 of you have named a new species

For the rest, see the charts...

Regards, And Thanks to those of you who took the poll!
Richard



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Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 11:29:11 +0200
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HEHEHEHEHEHE

Looks like I'm the only 1 in Africa (South Africa to be exact)



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Subject: RE: OT: Programming Languages
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 10:32:17 +0100
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Stout, JonathanX" <jonathanx.stout@intel.com>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" (FEISTFANS-L) <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: OT: Programming Languages
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 10:32:17 +0100
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That's a bit strong don't you think Brad?
I've worked in computers for years myself, it doesn't mean that at times I
don't need to look things up, or ask somebody a question.
If you don't, well that's great, but for mere mortals like ourselves, a
reference guide is very useful.

-----Original Message-----
>From: Brad_A_Krahe@allegiance.com.au
>[mailto:Brad_A_Krahe@allegiance.com.au]
>Sent: Friday, September 28, 2001 10:08 AM
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: Re: OT: Programming Languages
>
>
>Judging by your language and reliance on books, you must be very young and
>not very good and what you do! your little story was not impressive at all
>to myself. Why do wannabe's drop in the "Military" word.
>
>The printing off part was for the poeple that need the comfort of a hard
>copy such as yourself.
>
>Yes I'm a consultant, with the same company for 5 years now. You just don't
>know how many times I get called out when text book jockey's like yourself
>have made mistakes. Thats why I get paid as much as I do. Clients like to
>see someone how can walk in, know what their doing and fix their problem -
>looking it up! as you do would cost my clients to much downtime and money.
>
>If you were as half a good as you think you are, you'd be a consultant,
>otherwise you wouldn't go on about it.
>
>I don't get billed out by the quater hour, little jobs like that I leave
>for the likes of you.
>
>Goodbye......................
>
>Regards,
>
>Brad Krahe
>SAP Business & Support Consultant
>Allegiance Systems
>
>>
>>
>>Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com> on 28/09/2001
>>18:31:58
>>
>>Please respond to FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>>
>>To:   FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
>>cc:    (bcc: Brad A Krahe/HCS)
>>Subject:  Re: OT: Programming Languages
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>At 11:27 AM 9/28/01 +1000, Brad_A_Krahe@allegiance.com.au wrote:
>>>Anestis.
>>>
>>>That's why you download the manual and print it off.
>>
>>GMAB.  Do you know how wasteful that is in resources and
>>time?  Oh, I get it, you go to a friends house and use their
>>ink/toner/electricity and probably paper, too.  So it's
>>not a waste of /your/ resources, so it doesn't matter.
>>
>>>Sorry, if you or the list I assume you have internet access.
>>
>>*buzzer* Sorry Mr. Contestant! You've made a false assumption!
>>What do we have for our contestant, Johnny?
>>
>>I used to be a technical support engineer.  In two instances
>>I had to go on-site to diagnose and solve a couple of really
>>wicked problems.  While on-site at the customers, I was not
>>given access to the Internet because they were both
>>military-industrial houses and the systems in use were
>>not public.  They didn't even have email.
>>
>>If I did not have my books, I would not have been able to
>>solve the problems.
>>
>>Also, I'd like to know how I'm supposed to get Internet
>>access on the bus on my way to and from work?
>>
>>>There's always
>>>a library/school/cyber cafe/friends house so these days its not that hard
>>>to access the internet. Considering here in Australia a good code book
>>>(believe me they are hard to find) are worth well over $100.00 which is to
>>>much for some people to pay - where as going to your  library/school/cyber
>>>cafe/friends house and printing off a manual on-line is alot cheaper.
>>
>>*scoffs*  'Cheaper' maybe financially, but how much is
>>your time worth.  You're a consultant (it says there), so
>>I'm pretty sure you know to the nearest quarter-hour how
>>much your time is worth.
>>
>>rip
>>
>>
>>>No offense, but he wants to learn Perl, Knows PHP,html/java script a
>>little
>>>- common sense implies he must have an internet connection somewhere to
>>use
>>>otherwise why learn ????
>>
>>I use perl all the time.  For the stuff I'm doing at work,
>>it is quicker to debug then trying to compile c or c++,
>>is easier to modify quickly to try something out, and
>>/I'm not using it for the web/.  It is a tool.  Nothing
>>more, nothing less.
>>
>>>I'm amazed how often people prefer to flame others
>>>rather than be helpful which is all I'm trying to do, so if you haven't
>>got
>>>any helpful comments - don't post.
>>
>>Anestis was helpfully pointing out that you yourself
>>weren't being helpful.
>>
>>rip
>>

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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 10:46:29 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: OT: Programming Languages
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

At 06:54 PM 9/28/01 +1000, Brad_A_Krahe@allegiance.com.au wrote:
>Richard or is that Dick ?

Let's see.  The first rule of comedy is you never, ever, 
make fun of someone for something that they didn't choose
or have no control over.

I didn't choose my name.  So trying to poke fun at me 
by selecting a common diminutive of my name which has
other less salubrious connotations doesn't really work.

Nice try though.   

>LOL language snob! You have no idea who I am or what I do or have done.

Nope.  Don't.  I can only go by what you have written.
I admit that that is a pretty low knowledge base.  However
most job interviews really only last 45 seconds.  Based
on your posts in this thread, I would have to think twice
before hiring you.  *shrugs*

>The only reason I asked is why learn Perl is because if he's learning or
>already knows other languages which can cover what he is attempting to do,
>why burden him with learning  another language unless there is a reason.

Pursuit of knowledge?  Or do you consider that a waste of
resources.

>By the way I know Perl, use it only when required, why over complicate ?

I know PHP.  I use it when it is the best language for the
job at hand.  Which is a much more reasonable justification
for a language choice, I think.

>Again for the people who can't seem to understand - 

Far be it for us to even think about implying that maybe
the problem wasn't with our understanding, it was with
the descriptive text we were working with, ie your post.

>the reason I suggested
>on-line Vs books is because some people can't afford $$$ on books and what
>you would recommend as a good starting point/best book ever!!! may not suit
>the other person. Let them understand a little bit about the language (for
>free) then they can make up their own mind when it comes to spending money
>on reference texts - there's nothing worse than someone saying "Hay! use
>this" when its not the book for you and you regret the money you spent!. I
>don't like influencing people when money is involved on mailing list where
>he doesn't know (maybe/maybe not) the people giving advice.

Maybe you said it better that time, then.  The first time you
said it you weren't clear.  Led to mis-understandings, it did.

>O'Reilly's "The PERL Cookbook" is the reason you buy the book. - Hm.....
>who's the snob now! maybe help the person out by explaining your
>justification ?

Aaron was asking about Perl, that was the book that came to
mind.  It is clear, concise, answers questions with rational
arguments and gives methods using code to solve basic and 
advanced problems.  The examples are reasonable, simple and 
cross-platform.  With a little bit of application and mental
gymnastics, given Perl's almost-C syntax, it can be used as a
book of algorithms for solving problems in C (or any other 
language for that matter).

And you can carry it around with you, which you still haven't
explained how I'm supposed to do that with the Internet.

rip
 

>I was never trying to dissuade his choice just.

Sounded like it from where I was sitting.  Must have missed
the smileys.  Sorry, I'll try reading slower next time.

>"Maybe, maybe not.  But you come across as having a very
>different attitude towards programming and programming
>languages than I do."
>
>- Due to real professional experience would be the reason. (Yes now I'm
>being a snob)

Which may or may not be important in your line of work.
I'm more of a scientist then.  Learning a new language is
like research.  There might be a better way to do it.

You sound like you're stuck in "I know this way works,
so I'll just do that".  Eventually, of course the market
evolves away from what works to what works better, and
then your stuck.

rip






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From: "Stout, JonathanX" <jonathanx.stout@intel.com>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" (FEISTFANS-L) <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: OT: Programming Languages
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 10:57:48 +0100
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Stout, JonathanX" <jonathanx.stout@intel.com>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" (FEISTFANS-L) <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: OT: Programming Languages
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 10:57:48 +0100
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Where'd you get your rules of comedy Dick?
Alls fair in love and laughs

-----Original Message-----
>From: Richard Williamson [mailto:richard.williamson@windriver.com]
>Sent: 28 September 2001 10:46
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: Re: OT: Programming Languages
>
>
>At 06:54 PM 9/28/01 +1000, Brad_A_Krahe@allegiance.com.au wrote:
>>Richard or is that Dick ?
>
>Let's see.  The first rule of comedy is you never, ever, 
>make fun of someone for something that they didn't choose
>or have no control over.
>
>I didn't choose my name.  So trying to poke fun at me 
>by selecting a common diminutive of my name which has
>other less salubrious connotations doesn't really work.
>
>Nice try though.   
>
>>LOL language snob! You have no idea who I am or what I do or have done.
>
>Nope.  Don't.  I can only go by what you have written.
>I admit that that is a pretty low knowledge base.  However
>most job interviews really only last 45 seconds.  Based
>on your posts in this thread, I would have to think twice
>before hiring you.  *shrugs*
>
>>The only reason I asked is why learn Perl is because if he's learning or
>>already knows other languages which can cover what he is attempting to do,
>>why burden him with learning  another language unless there is a reason.
>
>Pursuit of knowledge?  Or do you consider that a waste of
>resources.
>
>>By the way I know Perl, use it only when required, why over complicate ?
>
>I know PHP.  I use it when it is the best language for the
>job at hand.  Which is a much more reasonable justification
>for a language choice, I think.
>
>>Again for the people who can't seem to understand - 
>
>Far be it for us to even think about implying that maybe
>the problem wasn't with our understanding, it was with
>the descriptive text we were working with, ie your post.
>
>>the reason I suggested
>>on-line Vs books is because some people can't afford $$$ on books and what
>>you would recommend as a good starting point/best book ever!!! may not suit
>>the other person. Let them understand a little bit about the language (for
>>free) then they can make up their own mind when it comes to spending money
>>on reference texts - there's nothing worse than someone saying "Hay! use
>>this" when its not the book for you and you regret the money you spent!. I
>>don't like influencing people when money is involved on mailing list where
>>he doesn't know (maybe/maybe not) the people giving advice.
>
>Maybe you said it better that time, then.  The first time you
>said it you weren't clear.  Led to mis-understandings, it did.
>
>>O'Reilly's "The PERL Cookbook" is the reason you buy the book. - Hm.....
>>who's the snob now! maybe help the person out by explaining your
>>justification ?
>
>Aaron was asking about Perl, that was the book that came to
>mind.  It is clear, concise, answers questions with rational
>arguments and gives methods using code to solve basic and 
>advanced problems.  The examples are reasonable, simple and 
>cross-platform.  With a little bit of application and mental
>gymnastics, given Perl's almost-C syntax, it can be used as a
>book of algorithms for solving problems in C (or any other 
>language for that matter).
>
>And you can carry it around with you, which you still haven't
>explained how I'm supposed to do that with the Internet.
>
>rip
> 
>
>>I was never trying to dissuade his choice just.
>
>Sounded like it from where I was sitting.  Must have missed
>the smileys.  Sorry, I'll try reading slower next time.
>
>>"Maybe, maybe not.  But you come across as having a very
>>different attitude towards programming and programming
>>languages than I do."
>>
>>- Due to real professional experience would be the reason. (Yes now I'm
>>being a snob)
>
>Which may or may not be important in your line of work.
>I'm more of a scientist then.  Learning a new language is
>like research.  There might be a better way to do it.
>
>You sound like you're stuck in "I know this way works,
>so I'll just do that".  Eventually, of course the market
>evolves away from what works to what works better, and
>then your stuck.
>
>rip
>



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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Bored, so Brad and I are in a flame war.  Was: OT: Programming
  Languages
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Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 11:07:41 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Bored, so Brad and I are in a flame war.  Was: OT: Programming
  Languages
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

At 07:08 PM 9/28/01 +1000, Brad_A_Krahe@allegiance.com.au wrote:
>Judging by your language and reliance on books, you must be very young and
>not very good and what you do! your little story was not impressive at all
>to myself. Why do wannabe's drop in the "Military" word.

? On the basis of a couple of posts, you now make these 
assumptions that I am young, rely on books, am not a very
good programmer and am a wannabe.

Wow, your powers of deduction are superb.  

Actually, I'm middle aged, rely on the correct execution
of code written to specifications, am an excellent programmer
with code I've written running in space.  I've ported
a complex real-time operating system to a computer architecture
that you've never even heard of.  I'm the sole inventor of
software that has a patent pending on it.

>The printing off part was for the poeple that need the comfort of a hard
>copy such as yourself.

Waste of time.  That's what books are for.

>Yes I'm a consultant, with the same company for 5 years now. 

Which means you started with your company a couple years
after I started with mine.  Congratulations.

>You just don't
>know how many times I get called out when text book jockey's like yourself
>have made mistakes.  Thats why I get paid as much as I do. Clients like to
>see someone how can walk in, know what their doing and fix their problem -
>looking it up! as you do would cost my clients to much downtime and money.

If you typed slower, and read back over what you had written,
it would be a lot clearer.  "how can walk in"? oh, 'Who'.  'know
what their doing'? their should be they're, and in any case,
who is 'they' referring to?  The client or the consultant.  I'd
offer 'both' as a possibility also, except I don't think your
use of natural language is adept enough to note the difference.

Also, since you've based your entire response on a lot of really 
bad, bad assumptions, would you like to try again?  

>If you were as half a good as you think you are, you'd be a consultant,
>otherwise you wouldn't go on about it.

Ah yes.  I was one of those between 1990 and 1995, which is
when I started working here.  Got paid a lot.  Didn't like the
tax hassles.  And couldn't get any work in the field that I
really wanted to work in, since I don't have a degree in IT.
It's in French of all things.  So I got this job, which gives
me the exposure to the things that I want to do.  I'm content.
Are you?

>I don't get billed out by the quater hour, little jobs like that I leave
>for the likes of you.

Sorry, I do RTOS ports to alien (ie, next generation) architectures.  
18 months and change per port.  I don't spend my work time taking
sadistic glee in fixing other peoples problems for them, which is
why I got out of Tech Support.

rip



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From: "Natalie Henderson" <natz101@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT: Programming Languages
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 10:10:58 +0000
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From: "Natalie Henderson" <natz101@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re: OT: Programming Languages
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 10:10:58 +0000
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Brad,

As you've already said, rip doesn't know anything about you. I assume this 
would also work the same way the other way round and you don't know anything 
about rip. Therefore I suggest that you keep your assumptions to yourself 
until you know more about him! :)

Natalie


>From: Brad_A_Krahe@allegiance.com.au
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
>Subject: Re: OT: Programming Languages
>Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 19:08:12 +1000
>
>Judging by your language and reliance on books, you must be very young and
>not very good and what you do! your little story was not impressive at all
>to myself. Why do wannabe's drop in the "Military" word.
>
>The printing off part was for the poeple that need the comfort of a hard
>copy such as yourself.
>
>Yes I'm a consultant, with the same company for 5 years now. You just don't
>know how many times I get called out when text book jockey's like yourself
>have made mistakes. Thats why I get paid as much as I do. Clients like to
>see someone how can walk in, know what their doing and fix their problem -
>looking it up! as you do would cost my clients to much downtime and money.
>
>If you were as half a good as you think you are, you'd be a consultant,
>otherwise you wouldn't go on about it.
>
>I don't get billed out by the quater hour, little jobs like that I leave
>for the likes of you.
>
>Goodbye......................
>
>Regards,
>
>Brad Krahe
>SAP Business & Support Consultant
>Allegiance Systems
>
>
>
>
>Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com> on 28/09/2001
>18:31:58
>
>Please respond to FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>
>To:   FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
>cc:    (bcc: Brad A Krahe/HCS)
>Subject:  Re: OT: Programming Languages
>
>
>
>
>At 11:27 AM 9/28/01 +1000, Brad_A_Krahe@allegiance.com.au wrote:
> >Anestis.
> >
> >That's why you download the manual and print it off.
>
>GMAB.  Do you know how wasteful that is in resources and
>time?  Oh, I get it, you go to a friends house and use their
>ink/toner/electricity and probably paper, too.  So it's
>not a waste of /your/ resources, so it doesn't matter.
>
> >Sorry, if you or the list I assume you have internet access.
>
>*buzzer* Sorry Mr. Contestant! You've made a false assumption!
>What do we have for our contestant, Johnny?
>
>I used to be a technical support engineer.  In two instances
>I had to go on-site to diagnose and solve a couple of really
>wicked problems.  While on-site at the customers, I was not
>given access to the Internet because they were both
>military-industrial houses and the systems in use were
>not public.  They didn't even have email.
>
>If I did not have my books, I would not have been able to
>solve the problems.
>
>Also, I'd like to know how I'm supposed to get Internet
>access on the bus on my way to and from work?
>
> >There's always
> >a library/school/cyber cafe/friends house so these days its not that hard
> >to access the internet. Considering here in Australia a good code book
> >(believe me they are hard to find) are worth well over $100.00 which is 
>to
> >much for some people to pay - where as going to your  
>library/school/cyber
> >cafe/friends house and printing off a manual on-line is alot cheaper.
>
>*scoffs*  'Cheaper' maybe financially, but how much is
>your time worth.  You're a consultant (it says there), so
>I'm pretty sure you know to the nearest quarter-hour how
>much your time is worth.
>
>rip
>
>
> >No offense, but he wants to learn Perl, Knows PHP,html/java script a
>little
> >- common sense implies he must have an internet connection somewhere to
>use
> >otherwise why learn ????
>
>I use perl all the time.  For the stuff I'm doing at work,
>it is quicker to debug then trying to compile c or c++,
>is easier to modify quickly to try something out, and
>/I'm not using it for the web/.  It is a tool.  Nothing
>more, nothing less.
>
> >I'm amazed how often people prefer to flame others
> >rather than be helpful which is all I'm trying to do, so if you haven't
>got
> >any helpful comments - don't post.
>
>Anestis was helpfully pointing out that you yourself
>weren't being helpful.
>
>rip
>
>
>
>
>
>


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp



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From: "Donal K. Fellows" <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT: Programming Languages
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 11:32:25 +0100
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"Stout, JonathanX" <jonathanx.stout@intel.com>
> That's a bit strong don't you think Brad?

Well, he does seem to be trying for the Diplomat of the Month award...

> I've worked in computers for years myself, it doesn't mean that at
> times I don't need to look things up, or ask somebody a question.
> If you don't, well that's great, but for mere mortals like
> ourselves, a reference guide is very useful.

Much experience has shown that one of the marks of a real professional
is that they know when to look things up and/or ask.  (The others are
"use the right tool for the job", "write the specification first so
you know when you've not made a mistake" and "document everything,
especially including *why*, even if it seems obvious at the moment".)
These rules apply equally well outside the field, but that's not
really surprising.  <g>

Donal.
-- 
Donal K. Fellows, Department of Computer Science, University of Manchester, UK.
(work) fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk     Tel: +44-161-275-6137  (preferred email addr.)
(home) donal@ugglan.demon.co.uk  Tel: +44-1274-401017   Mobile: +44-7957-298955
http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~fellowsd/  (Don't quote my .sig; I've seen it before!)



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From: "Donal K. Fellows" <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
In-reply-to: <007901c147d4$3c906760$52c9b718@server> (feistfan@chadkeffer.com)
Subject: Re: Programming Languages
References: <20010926112636.88025.qmail@web14603.mail.yahoo.com> <004901c14687$80adfd20$2d911dcb@heechee> <007901c147d4$3c906760$52c9b718@server>
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Donal K. Fellows" <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Programming Languages
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 11:39:51 +0100
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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"Chad Keffer" <feistfan@chadkeffer.com>
> What a whacky curriculum.  My intro to programming class was in C++,
> as was my intermediate level class, and my intro to object-oriented
> programming was also C++.  The school has completely dropped COBOL,
> Pascal, and FORTRAN.

Are you doing any other languages?  If everything's just in C++, then
all your solutions will tend to be overly focussed on how you would do
things in that language.  Which would be OK except there's often a
better solution in something else, and knowing that can help you come
up with more intelligent answers.

You should definitely look at Java (hey, it won't hurt too much and
there are lots of jobs that use it[*]) as well as a functional
programming language (like SML) a scripting language (like Python,
Perl or Tcl) as well as both Forth and Prolog (which are pretty much
in their own categories and tackle some problems very well.)  Consider
it to be getting on with your professional development early!

Donal.
[* And it will help you understand what is going on in C++ better too. ]
-- 
Donal K. Fellows, Department of Computer Science, University of Manchester, UK.
(work) fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk     Tel: +44-161-275-6137  (preferred email addr.)
(home) donal@ugglan.demon.co.uk  Tel: +44-1274-401017   Mobile: +44-7957-298955
http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~fellowsd/  (Don't quote my .sig; I've seen it before!)



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At 10:57 AM 9/28/01 +0100, Stout, JonathanX wrote:
>Where'd you get your rules of comedy Dick?
>Alls fair in love and laughs

That would be California State University, Fresno,
SPCH116 (Communications and Humor).  Otherwise
known as 'Stand-Up Comedy'.  The final was three
to five minutes in front of a boisterous crowd
at the Bucket, the on-campus pub.  Hardest final
I ever had.

The problem with 'Dick' is the same as with pointing
out that my handle uses the same three letters as
the Latin inscription, Requiscat In Pace (Rest In
Peace).  It's been done to death...erm ah aha, sorry.

Anyway, come up with something /clever/, and I'll be
the first to applaud.  Otherwise, you are just a 
heckler.

rip



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*** EOOH ***
From: "Jeffrey Flower" <chronos@teamut.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
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While I haven't chatted a whole lot about much on this list, it has
been fun for the few months I have been on it.  I am in the Navy and I
am heading out to sea.  So instead of coming back to 1,400 emails like
after boot camp, I am going in hop off the list and jump back on when
I get back.

Thanks for all the good book talk.

Jeffrey Flower

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Good luck mate.

-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On
>Behalf Of Jeffrey Flower
>Sent: Friday, 28 September 2001 9:38 PM
>To: FEISTFANS-L
>Subject: Unsubscribe
>
>
>While I haven't chatted a whole lot about much on this list, it has been fun
>for the few months I have been on it.  I am in the Navy and I am heading out
>to sea.  So instead of coming back to 1,400 emails like after boot camp, I
>am going in hop off the list and jump back on when I get back.
>
>Thanks for all the good book talk.
>
>Jeffrey Flower
>


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----- Original Message -----
From: Donal K. Fellows <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Friday, September 28, 2001 8:32 PM
Subject: Re: OT: Programming Languages


> "Stout, JonathanX" <jonathanx.stout@intel.com>
> > That's a bit strong don't you think Brad?
>
> Well, he does seem to be trying for the Diplomat of the Month award...

No, I think that award goes to President George W. "Wave Goodbye To
Afghanistan" Bush...

Sorry, bad joke. But since I'm an Aussie, I'm allowed to make it.

Cheers,
James.



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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Barker" <heechee@softhome.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Unsubscribe
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 23:15:54 +1000
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----- Original Message -----
From: Jeffrey Flower
To: FEISTFANS-L
Sent: Friday, September 28, 2001 9:37 PM
Subject: Unsubscribe

>While I haven't chatted a whole lot about much on this list, it has been
>fun for the few months I have been on it.  I am in the Navy and I am heading
>out to sea.  So instead of coming back to 1,400 emails like after boot camp,
>I am going in hop off the list and jump back on when I get back.
>
>Thanks for all the good book talk.

No worries :)

Good luck with the posting, and come back safe.

Cheers,
James



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Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2001 01:31:13 +1000
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From: Anestis Kozakis <kenosti@labyrinth.net.au>
Subject: Re: Poll closure
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Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2001 01:31:13 +1000
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Anestis Kozakis <kenosti@labyrinth.net.au>
Subject: Re: Poll closure
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At 10:20 +0100 28/09/2001, Richard Williamson wrote:
>Hello All,
>
>I've just taken a snapshot of the poll results, and
>the address of the page with the data is
>http://www.ferkel.co.uk/pl_fei_results.html

[snip]

I find it amusing that 71.2% (99/114) believe in ET, but only 20.1% 
(23/114) believe in the Loch Ness Monster.

[snip]

>For the rest, see the charts...

An amusing read.  I hope to be able to dot he next poll :-)

>Regards, And Thanks to those of you who took the poll!

You're welcome :-)

>Richard

Anestis.
-- 
kenosti@labyrinth.net.au
"A complete list of this film's associate producers
  is available upon request."
    -- In End Credits for "State and Main"



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From: John <john@crydee.com>
Subject: Re: Legends Trade Papaerback
References: <12d.5344a23.28e4bcf8@aol.com> <rz5Q1$AWM6s7EwTs@cableinet.co.uk>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 18:13:14 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: John <john@crydee.com>
Subject: Re: Legends Trade Papaerback
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A Irving <aignome@dingoblue.net.au> writes
>From: John <john@crydee.com>
>> Probably cover price if it is as new , otherwise less. Also OZ versions
>> were slightly thinner than UK Trade Paperbacks. The UK had a HB version.
>> Now if we were talking the limited leather edition . between $600 and
>> $1000
>> --
>> John
>If the Aus. version is thinner is that just because of the paper used, or
>font size etc?
Paper. Many Feist HB's are a little thinner


-- 
John

john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.

Raymond E Feist Ring
http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm



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Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 10:20:06 -0700
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From: Alan Kellogg <mythusmage@cts.com>
Subject: Next Gen Architecture. Was: Bored, so Brad and I are in a flame
 war.  Was: OT: Programming   Languages
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 10:20:06 -0700
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Alan Kellogg <mythusmage@cts.com>
Subject: Next Gen Architecture. Was: Bored, so Brad and I are in a flame
 war.  Was: OT: Programming   Languages
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Anything you can talk about? I've heard about photonic and biotonic 
(lamprey brain for example) set-ups, but nothing concrete. Or is it 
more along the lines of computer architecture based around the new 
Motorola chip (G5 Macs on the way!)

Alan



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From: John <john@crydee.com>
Subject: Re: Legends Trade Papaerback
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From: John <john@crydee.com>
Subject: Re: Legends Trade Papaerback
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Brad_A_Krahe@allegiance.com.au writes
>John,
>
>As it seems you have more Feist books than any mortal on the list, do you
>have a listing of Hardback/Trade Paper backs and their round about $$$
>worth that you could post on your website.
>
>Even a listing of different print versions of all the books would be very
>interesting read. It would help alot of us who don't know what books came
>out in what version.
>
>I only ask because I assume you'd probably have something like this already
>? or is it in all your head ? Or is this a guarded object not for public
>display ?
>
Hi Brad, Cameron has already mention edition information. Though with 
regard to prices it is mainly in my head, from 3 years of hard 
searching.(800 phone calls in 1 month !)
It has been suggested about listing on my site. But I have avoided it. 
As you will appreciate Buying price is different to selling.

I may be lucky to pick up a book for 10 and sell for 100, though there 
would be several factors involved such as effort in finding it due to 
rarity
If I were to list at 100 then people tend to think their copy is worth 
100, and they could sell to me at 100, which would mean I would either 
have to pay 100 or not buy it. If I paid 100 then if I wanted to sell, I 
would have to consider 150+ ( One consideration is shipping costs each 
time) As you can see this is how prices are driven upwards, which none 
of us want. (Except when I am selling <BG>)

Anyone with specific pricing questions is welcome to email me private, 
ad I can give ideas on what may be expected, though always remember 
exact condition can affect the price dramatically


-- 
John

john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.

Raymond E Feist Ring
http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm



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From: John <john@crydee.com>
Subject: Re: Magician - Author's Preferred Edition 2002
References: <dTXddcEtyrs7EwGY@cableinet.co.uk>
 <NGELLDNAEMBGGGHFAJPBCEHNCIAA.gibbyfish@yahoo.com>
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Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 18:26:40 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: John <john@crydee.com>
Subject: Re: Magician - Author's Preferred Edition 2002
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Michael Gibson <gibbyfish@yahoo.com> writes
>> Firesight <wolfriderfiresight@hotmail.com> writes
>> >Well,
>> >
>> >If this rumor about a leatherbound 20th Anneversary Magician are ture, then
>> >I'm gonna same my pennies and get one!
>> >
>>
>> Here is a response I had from a contact at HC
>>
>> Yes, we're still going for a 20th anniversary MAGICIAN -- probably just
>> a
>> limited hardback, rather than leatherbound. It's scheduled for September
>> 2002. I don't think we can make an economic case for reissuing the other
>> titles, though.
>
>So you didn't tell your contact about yourself then? ;)

She knows already :)
The first time I met her was when Ray was at Forbidden Planet for SOABC 
signing. I had Geoff Taylor s Original Magician cover paperback. Her 
comment was to the effect she hadn't seen one of those for years.
At the same venue Ray also commented to Jane that Harper Collins ought 
to insure us collectors, as if we stopped buying, their sales would fall 
:)

And I even asked about a small run of hardbacks for all the Riftwar, as 
you may have noticed
-- 
John

john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.

Raymond E Feist Ring
http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm



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From: "Michael Gibson" <gibbyfish@yahoo.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: OT: Programming Languages
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 22:25:51 +0100
Message-ID: <NGELLDNAEMBGGGHFAJPBAEICCIAA.gibbyfish@yahoo.com>
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Michael Gibson" <gibbyfish@yahoo.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: OT: Programming Languages
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 22:25:51 +0100
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> Judging by your language and reliance on books, you must be very young and
> not very good and what you do! your little story was not impressive at all
> to myself. Why do wannabe's drop in the "Military" word.

;).  Head over to the Rogue's Gallery kiddo (www.crydee.com).

> The printing off part was for the poeple that need the comfort of a hard
> copy such as yourself.

Practicality, really.  Firstly, you have to find an online text that has
sufficient content/is long enough to warrant printing off.  Then you have to go
through the palaver of printing it off.  A programming rookie needs
time/practice to get used to learning various syntaxes.

> Yes I'm a consultant, with the same company for 5 years now. You just don't
> know how many times I get called out when text book jockey's like yourself
> have made mistakes. Thats why I get paid as much as I do. Clients like to
> see someone how can walk in, know what their doing and fix their problem -
> looking it up! as you do would cost my clients to much downtime and money.

"An expert is someone who knows more about less,
until he knows everything about nothing"
- Murphy

Nobody can hope to know everything, or even everything about a particular
subject - from what you have said, it appears you are proficient in some areas,
but you can expand your scope greatly with reference material.

> If you were as half a good as you think you are, you'd be a consultant,
> otherwise you wouldn't go on about it.

I've just spent the last two weeks as a consultant.  At least that's what it
said on the payment form I filled in.

> I don't get billed out by the quater hour, little jobs like that I leave
> for the likes of you.

Hmm, tetchy ;).

Mike,
Gibfish of the West.

"To question is often intelligent.
To trust rightly is to be inspired."



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From: "Paul Whitby" <pjwhitby@lineone.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
References: <CA256AD5.0030FADE.00@mailgate.allegiance.com.au>
Subject: Re: OT: Programming Languages
Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2001 01:38:51 +0100
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Paul Whitby" <pjwhitby@lineone.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT: Programming Languages
Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2001 01:38:51 +0100
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You either don't know rip, or are too conceited too find out.
Many times have I crossed 'consultants' in the IT field who have their noses
so far up their own arse they can't even see what reality is!. Don't get me
started on SAP consultants.

Please read, and then re-read the posts that will surely follow your
misguided attempt at flaming and please learn from it.

You seem to regard yourself quite highly, yet what is quite obvious from
your post is that you have done no research, no investigation and even
worse, you have gone off, quite half-cocked on what seems to be some sort of
personal ego boost, to ridicule someone you know very little about.

VERY OT : I am sure you will be telling us all next that SAP is a wonderful
system and that its CRM software works !!!!!!!!!

Don't forget. this is all IHMO

Paul

NOT A SAP Business & Support Consultant

----- Original Message -----
From: <Brad_A_Krahe@allegiance.com.au>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Friday, September 28, 2001 10:08 AM
Subject: Re: OT: Programming Languages


> Judging by your language and reliance on books, you must be very young and
> not very good and what you do! your little story was not impressive at all
> to myself. Why do wannabe's drop in the "Military" word.
>
> The printing off part was for the poeple that need the comfort of a hard
> copy such as yourself.
>
> Yes I'm a consultant, with the same company for 5 years now. You just don't
> know how many times I get called out when text book jockey's like yourself
> have made mistakes. Thats why I get paid as much as I do. Clients like to
> see someone how can walk in, know what their doing and fix their problem -
> looking it up! as you do would cost my clients to much downtime and money.
>
> If you were as half a good as you think you are, you'd be a consultant,
> otherwise you wouldn't go on about it.
>
> I don't get billed out by the quater hour, little jobs like that I leave
> for the likes of you.
>
> Goodbye......................
>
> Regards,
>
> Brad Krahe
> SAP Business & Support Consultant
> Allegiance Systems
>



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Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 18:52:34 -0700
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 18:52:34 -0700
From: Carl Dershem <dershem@home.com>
Organization: Project Selene
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Poll closure
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Anestis Kozakis wrote:
> 
> I find it amusing that 71.2% (99/114) believe in ET, but only 20.1%
> (23/114) believe in the Loch Ness Monster.

Well, "Nessie" is very specific, and the odds are strongly against it. 
But the odds of intelligent life off of earth, even if it turns out to
be nothing like we've seen or imagined in TV, film or books... all but
guaranteed (and I'm stinting only because we don't have absolut proof
yet.  I eprsonally consider it absurd to think we're the only life in
the universe).



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Subject: Re: Poll closure
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From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Poll closure
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 21:01:16 -0500
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> 3 of you have named a new species

I'd liked to know which species...





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From: "A Irving" <aignome@dingoblue.net.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
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From: Anestis Kozakis <kenosti@labyrinth.net.au>
> At 10:20 +0100 28/09/2001, Richard Williamson wrote:
> >Hello All,
> >
> >I've just taken a snapshot of the poll results, and
> >the address of the page with the data is
> >http://www.ferkel.co.uk/pl_fei_results.html
>
> [snip]
>
> I find it amusing that 71.2% (99/114) believe in ET, but only 20.1%
> (23/114) believe in the Loch Ness Monster.
Perhaps it was rip's wording. "A 'Jurassic' creature". If there is some form
of monster in Lake Ness then it surely would have evolved, to a degree, and
so no longer be classed as jurassic <G>



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*** EOOH ***
From: "Chad Keffer" <feistfan@chadkeffer.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Larry Elmore
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 22:58:39 -0500
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

For those of you who like the work of Larry Elmore he finally has an art
book out for sale.  For those of you who don't remember, he did a lot of
work for TSR, especially DragonLance.  I always thought he best pictured my
impressions of what the people and creatures of fantasy would look like. (I
love his dragons).  Anyway, the artbook is like $40, a signed and numbered
one is $50, and a signed and numbered one with an original sketch inside is
$60.  You can check them out at http://www.larryelmore.com/StoreArtbook.html

Hopefully no one is offended by the post.  Normally I would consider it poor
taste to advertise another author's works on this ListServ, but he's an
artist so I thought I'd take advantage of that gray area.



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2001 19:26:53 +1000
From: Alan <Jherek@bigpond.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: OT: AFL Grand Final
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Just for information Brisbane lions won the AFL Grand Final for the
first time since 1944.

Alan
(Who loathes Essendon)
-- 
And he sees the vision splendid of the sunlit plains extended
And at night the wond'rous glory of the everlasting stars

Clancy of the Overflow



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From: "Stephen Morrison" <rebmalin@crydee.org>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: AFL Grand Final
Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2001 19:25:57 +1000
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*** EOOH ***
X-Sent: 29 Sep 2001 09:26:19 GMT
From: "Stephen Morrison" <rebmalin@crydee.org>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: AFL Grand Final
Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2001 19:25:57 +1000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Well, Brisbane one it for the first time ever.  The lions won it for the
first time since 1944. ;)

-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Alan
>Sent: Saturday, 29 September 2001 7:27 PM
>To: FEISTFANS-L
>Subject: OT: AFL Grand Final
>
>
>Just for information Brisbane lions won the AFL Grand Final for the
>first time since 1944.
>
>Alan
>(Who loathes Essendon)
>--
>And he sees the vision splendid of the sunlit plains extended
>And at night the wond'rous glory of the everlasting stars
>
>Clancy of the Overflow
>


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To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
References: <ICEHJNLEKHPHEMPILICNMEJGCLAA.rebmalin@crydee.org>
Subject: Re: AFL Grand Final
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*** EOOH ***
From: "MAURITS DE RIDDER" <maurits.de.ridder@pandora.be>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: AFL Grand Final
Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2001 11:40:00 +0200
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

please dont sent me anny more e-mails. I am not interested!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Stephen Morrison" <rebmalin@crydee.org>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Saturday, September 29, 2001 11:25 AM
Subject: RE: AFL Grand Final


> Well, Brisbane one it for the first time ever.  The lions won it for the
> first time since 1944. ;)
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Alan
> Sent: Saturday, 29 September 2001 7:27 PM
> To: FEISTFANS-L
> Subject: OT: AFL Grand Final
> 
> 
> Just for information Brisbane lions won the AFL Grand Final for the
> first time since 1944.
> 
> Alan
> (Who loathes Essendon)
> --
> And he sees the vision splendid of the sunlit plains extended
> And at night the wond'rous glory of the everlasting stars
> 
> Clancy of the Overflow
> 
> 



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References: <001f01c1489b$05746750$52c9b718@server> <3BB593DD.46CBBC66@bigpond.com>
Subject: Re: AFL Grand Final
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*** EOOH ***
From: "MAURITS DE RIDDER" <maurits.de.ridder@pandora.be>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: AFL Grand Final
Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2001 11:41:04 +0200
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Please dont sent sent me anny more e-maels. I am not
interested!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Alan" <Jherek@bigpond.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Saturday, September 29, 2001 11:26 AM
Subject: OT: AFL Grand Final


> Just for information Brisbane lions won the AFL Grand Final for the
> first time since 1944.
>
> Alan
> (Who loathes Essendon)
> --
> And he sees the vision splendid of the sunlit plains extended
> And at night the wond'rous glory of the everlasting stars
>
> Clancy of the Overflow
>
>



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Subject: Re: AFL Grand Final
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Barker" <heechee@softhome.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: AFL Grand Final
Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2001 21:49:40 +1000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


----- Original Message -----
From: MAURITS DE RIDDER <maurits.de.ridder@pandora.be>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Saturday, September 29, 2001 7:41 PM
Subject: Re: AFL Grand Final


> Please dont sent sent me anny more e-maels. I am not
> interested!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This is the second time (to my knowledge) we've had an email of this type
from you, Maurits. Remember that these people are not choosing to send their
mail to you specifically -- rather, they are sending it to the list, of
which you are a member. Either politely suggest that they take their
discussion back on topic, or unsubscribe from the list (if the latter, send
an email to listproc@cornell.edu  containing the text "unsubscribe
feistfans-l").

Do not, repeat _do not_ simply send a poorly written "e-mael" to the list
telling them to stop. It won't accomplish anything, except make you look
like a pillock.

Cheers,
James



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From: "Steven McCarthy" <steven@connect.ie>
To: "Feistfans" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: OT: LotR chess set moulds
Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2001 02:23:33 +0100
Message-ID: <JFEAJPKDBPIHNHHIHKHLMEFECFAA.steven@connect.ie>
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*** EOOH ***
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: "Steven McCarthy" <steven@connect.ie>
To: "Feistfans" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: OT: LotR chess set moulds
Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2001 02:23:33 +0100
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I've been searching everywhere for a set of moulds to make LotR chess sets.
Has anyone found any anywhere? If so please mail me OFFLIST to let me know
where I can get some.

Thanks,

Steve (steven@connect.ie)

"Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then
do it." -- Lazarus Long



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X-PH: V4.1@mailhub2 (Cornell Modified) 
From: "Steven McCarthy" <steven@connect.ie>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: OT:  Who cares (was RE: AFL Grand Final)
Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2001 02:14:25 +0100
Message-ID: <JFEAJPKDBPIHNHHIHKHLAEFECFAA.steven@connect.ie>
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*** EOOH ***
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: "Steven McCarthy" <steven@connect.ie>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: OT:  Who cares (was RE: AFL Grand Final)
Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2001 02:14:25 +0100
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Really. Was Ray playing for them? </sarcasm>

Steve

"Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then
do it." -- Lazarus Long

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Alan
> Sent: 29 September 2001 10:27
> To: FEISTFANS-L
> Subject: OT: AFL Grand Final
>
>
> Just for information Brisbane lions won the AFL Grand Final for the
> first time since 1944.
>
> Alan
> (Who loathes Essendon)
> --
> And he sees the vision splendid of the sunlit plains extended
> And at night the wond'rous glory of the everlasting stars
>
> Clancy of the Overflow
>
>



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X-PH: V4.1@cornell.edu (Cornell Modified) 
From: "Steven McCarthy" <steven@connect.ie>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Poll closure
Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2001 02:18:55 +0100
Message-ID: <JFEAJPKDBPIHNHHIHKHLEEFECFAA.steven@connect.ie>
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*** EOOH ***
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: "Steven McCarthy" <steven@connect.ie>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Poll closure
Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2001 02:18:55 +0100
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

80% male, 61% single. I wonder is that true for all fantasy fiction. I'd
imagine it's not far off (male profile anyway) as DnD was predominately male
orientated. Poker for juveniles *G*

Steve

"Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then
do it." -- Lazarus Long

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Richard Williamson
> Sent: 28 September 2001 10:20
> To: FEISTFANS-L
> Subject: Poll closure
>
>
> Hello All,
>
> I've just taken a snapshot of the poll results, and
> the address of the page with the data is
> http://www.ferkel.co.uk/pl_fei_results.html
>
> If anyone else wants to take the poll that's ok, but
> I don't know when I'll next update the results.  In
> any case, that file above will be where the latest
> published results will be.
>
> 139 valid respondents, which is about 25% of you.  I'd say that
> the margin of error is +/- 2.5% given that there are maybe three
> response forms left in that I consider to be 'dubious' but
> couldn't really decide if they were someone trying to be 'funny'.
>
> 80% male.
> 39% 18-24 (29% 25-30).
> 69% never married.
> 43% North American.
> 80% no children.
> 3 sets of twins.
> 50% collect books.
> 10% were/are in the military (Officers 3, Enlisted 7,
>     1 active reservist...)
> 66% can write code.
> 1 Grandparent.
> 3 of you have named a new species
>
> For the rest, see the charts...
>
> Regards, And Thanks to those of you who took the poll!
> Richard
>
>
>



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From: "Steven McCarthy" <steven@connect.ie>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Poll closure
Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2001 02:20:34 +0100
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*** EOOH ***
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: "Steven McCarthy" <steven@connect.ie>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Poll closure
Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2001 02:20:34 +0100
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Meant to add this question to the last post....

Ray,

Does the geographical profile agree with the sales figures? Usual disclaimer
(as in "shag off I'm not answering that") applies.

Steve

"Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then
do it." -- Lazarus Long

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Richard Williamson
> Sent: 28 September 2001 10:20
> To: FEISTFANS-L
> Subject: Poll closure
>
>
> Hello All,
>
> I've just taken a snapshot of the poll results, and
> the address of the page with the data is
> http://www.ferkel.co.uk/pl_fei_results.html



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2001 19:55:16 -0700
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Poll closure
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Saturday, September 29, 2001, at 06:20 PM, Steven McCarthy wrote:

> Meant to add this question to the last post....
>
> Ray,
>
> Does the geographical profile agree with the sales figures? Usual 
> disclaimer
> (as in "shag off I'm not answering that") applies.
>
>

Don't know.  Up to about 10 years ago, the conventional wisdom was 
fantasy was mostly female dominated (readership) while more men read 
science fiction.

That may have changed and I really haven't bothered to keep up.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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From: "Chad Keffer" <feistfan@chadkeffer.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
References: <001f01c1489b$05746750$52c9b718@server> <3BB593DD.46CBBC66@bigpond.com> <04e701c148ca$dba98c40$3adae0d5@pandora.be> <002701c148dc$d8b91de0$a61e3acb@heechee>
Subject: Re: AFL Grand Final
Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2001 01:53:35 -0500
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Chad Keffer" <feistfan@chadkeffer.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: AFL Grand Final
Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2001 01:53:35 -0500
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I suppose there are a rather large number of people who are on this list
solely for reading.  They're a fan of Ray's works and so subscribe to this
list to read the discussions about his books and Ray's commentary.  They may
never write a message or even a reply, but they faithfully read the emails
daily.

For those list members to whom English is a second (or even third) language,
I suppose it would be rather frustrating to slowly read-through and
translate emails just to find out it has nothing at all to do with Ray.  And
considering the amount of unsolicited junk mail and spam flying around via
email, one off-topic message is probably one more than they need/want.

Everyone is guilty of off topic posts, myself included, or guilty of
perpetuating them by replying.  It's a ListServ and people have news and
ideas they want to broadcast to a large number of people for feedback and
conversation, so they do it here (although, they'd be much better off
investigating the world newsgroups for such things).  Sometimes it would be
nice if people's off-topic posts were at least related to this genre in
general (i.e. literature, fantasy, etc.)

A lot of times it is assumed that people on this list somehow automatically
know the FAQ by heart, have read every book, played every game, are 150%
computer and internet literate, and know their email client's settings
inside and out.  (As if those are somehow requirements to be a fan of Ray's
works).  God have mercy on the poor sole who is just figuring out what email
is, what F.A.Q. stands for, has their Outlook Express set to send HTML
emails, and who just recently figured out how to join this list.

Anyway, I'm not trying to get flamed here.  Just trying to shed some light
on the OTHER point of view. :)

----- Original Message -----
>From: "James Barker" <heechee@softhome.net>
>To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
>Sent: Saturday, September 29, 2001 6:49 AM
>Subject: Re: AFL Grand Final
>
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: MAURITS DE RIDDER <maurits.de.ridder@pandora.be>
>To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
>Sent: Saturday, September 29, 2001 7:41 PM
>Subject: Re: AFL Grand Final
>
>
>> Please dont sent sent me anny more e-maels. I am not
>> interested!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
>This is the second time (to my knowledge) we've had an email of this type
>from you, Maurits. Remember that these people are not choosing to send their
>mail to you specifically -- rather, they are sending it to the list, of
>which you are a member. Either politely suggest that they take their
>discussion back on topic, or unsubscribe from the list (if the latter, send
>an email to listproc@cornell.edu  containing the text "unsubscribe
>feistfans-l").
>
>Do not, repeat _do not_ simply send a poorly written "e-mael" to the list
>telling them to stop. It won't accomplish anything, except make you look
>like a pillock.
>
>Cheers,
>James
>


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Subject: See you in a few days
Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2001 23:38:56 +1000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Barker" <heechee@softhome.net>
To: feistfans-l@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: See you in a few days
Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2001 23:38:56 +1000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

To the list,

As I am now on school holidays, and the weather is warm, I'm going to go and
spend a few days in Nowra hanging off cliffs and swimming. So, if anyone
wants to flame me, I won't be returning your message until thursday or so,
OK? :)

Later people.

Cheers,
James



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From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: OT:  Graduate Programming positions in England
Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2001 01:46:58 +0800
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*** EOOH ***
From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: OT:  Graduate Programming positions in England
Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2001 01:46:58 +0800
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

It seems that a number of people on this list are in the IT industry and
some of those number in England. I was hesitant to post this message as
it is definitely OT, but I have a mate who recently graduated comp sci
and moved to London, and at the moment he is stuck doing data entry just
to make some money.

So if any of you kind people have any ideas or suggestions for my
friend, could you please send me an e-mail off list to
wolf@icenet.com.au

Thanks to one and all for putting up with yet another off topic post.

CW



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Subject: RE: See you in a few days
Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2001 19:59:51 +0100
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*** EOOH ***
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From: "paul_dutton" <paul_dutton@madasafish.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: See you in a few days
Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2001 19:59:51 +0100
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Where is Nowra?


hanging off cliffs and swimming. So, if anyone
> wants to flame me, I won't be returning your message until thursday or so,
> OK? :)
>
> Later people.
>
> Cheers,
> James
>
>



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2001 14:47:55 -0600
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT:  Graduate Programming positions in England
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

David Pengelley wrote:
> 
> It seems that a number of people on this list are in the IT industry and
> some of those number in England. I was hesitant to post this message as
> it is definitely OT, but I have a mate who recently graduated comp sci
> and moved to London, and at the moment he is stuck doing data entry just
> to make some money.

Hey! I'm entry-level IT and I'm in Denver, CO, and I'm gonna be stuck
doing data entry till I can get a programming job. Money is money, and
if it pays the bills, I can't complain. :)

Craig J. Ries



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From: Linda Simpson <esimpson-linda@powerup.com.au>
Subject: Very quiet
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2001 13:55:10 +1000
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Linda Simpson <esimpson-linda@powerup.com.au>
Subject: Very quiet
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Hi, 

Just wondering is it very quiet, or is it just me?

Linda



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Subject: Re: OT:  Graduate Programming positions in England
Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2001 21:44:30 -0700
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Jason Martin" <res0b95g@verizon.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT:  Graduate Programming positions in England
Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2001 21:44:30 -0700
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

While not programming I'm in the Semi Conductor business and we are having
week long shutdowns.  Nice to have the time off, but hell on the paychecks!
So far there have been 2 (1) week shutdowns, with another possibly in Dec.
for two weeks.  Oh well better this way then layoffs though.  So if you can
get any type of job wether it be data basing or what take it! =)

Jason

PS tried programming, but damn I can't think like that.
"Mas Tequila!"
       Red Vodoo- Sammy Hagar
----- Original Message -----
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2001 1:47 PM
Subject: Re: OT: Graduate Programming positions in England


> David Pengelley wrote:
> >
> > It seems that a number of people on this list are in the IT industry and
> > some of those number in England. I was hesitant to post this message as
> > it is definitely OT, but I have a mate who recently graduated comp sci
> > and moved to London, and at the moment he is stuck doing data entry just
> > to make some money.
>
> Hey! I'm entry-level IT and I'm in Denver, CO, and I'm gonna be stuck
> doing data entry till I can get a programming job. Money is money, and
> if it pays the bills, I can't complain. :)
>
> Craig J. Ries
>



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From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Poll closure
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2001 14:59:54 +1000 (GMT+1000)
From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Poll closure
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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> > (23/114) believe in the Loch Ness Monster.
> Perhaps it was rip's wording. "A 'Jurassic' creature". If there is some form
> of monster in Lake Ness then it surely would have evolved, to a degree, and
> so no longer be classed as jurassic <G>

Isn't evolution based upon natural selection and mutation?

Do we assume that their is a colony of "loch ness " creatures that are
breeding, or is it some ultra-old dinosaur (which if it aint the only one,
would not have evolved?)

If I'm wrong, please be nice, I'm only an arts student:)

Thanks
Darragh
-=-=
www.iamtheporkfireman.com
[Email]: s356179@student.uq.edu.au [ICQ]: 114283262



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Subject: Re: Very quiet
Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2001 01:25:41 -0500
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Very quiet
Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2001 01:25:41 -0500
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Eh, just you.  Seriously, I think what happened is most of the OT is
getting off the list finally and we are shifting back towards the on
topic things, which is currently in a limited state, and I guess it
will remain limited until Talons comes out (given we know a huge
amount about the various characters and events that we are likely to
see in the other books on the way)

> Hi,
>
> Just wondering is it very quiet, or is it just me?
>
> Linda
>



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Subject: Re: Poll closure
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Poll closure
Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2001 01:35:01 -0500
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    Close enough, I'll spare you the long Biology
spiel but simply put simply evolution only occurs
(biologically speaking) in genetic population via
selective pressures and adaptation to those pressures
(as well as some mutation which is then subject to
similar pressures resulting in an increased or decreased
success rate of survivability which is at its core a factor
of the mutations adaptation to the given niche) whereas
individuals merely acclimate to a given shift in selective
pressures.  The question is then is "Nessie" a population
undergoing genetic shifting, an individual (with a very high
zone of tolerance to withstand iceages to catastrophes),
or a figment.  My bet is on the third choice.

-James (who just finished dealing with a stack of journal articles
and is ready to stop dealing with science for a few hours)


----- Original Message -----
From: "Darragh Murray" <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2001 11:59 PM
Subject: Re: Poll closure


> > > (23/114) believe in the Loch Ness Monster.
> > Perhaps it was rip's wording. "A 'Jurassic' creature". If there is some form
> > of monster in Lake Ness then it surely would have evolved, to a degree, and
> > so no longer be classed as jurassic <G>
>
> Isn't evolution based upon natural selection and mutation?
>
> Do we assume that their is a colony of "loch ness " creatures that are
> breeding, or is it some ultra-old dinosaur (which if it aint the only one,
> would not have evolved?)
>
> If I'm wrong, please be nice, I'm only an arts student:)
>
> Thanks
> Darragh
> -=-=
> www.iamtheporkfireman.com
> [Email]: s356179@student.uq.edu.au [ICQ]: 114283262
>



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2001 17:12:17 +1000
From: Alan <Jherek@bigpond.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: See you in a few days
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paul_dutton wrote:
> 
> Where is Nowra?
> 
> hanging off cliffs and swimming. So, if anyone
> > wants to flame me, I won't be returning your message until thursday or so,
> > OK? :)
> >
> > Later people.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > James
> >
> >

New South Wales, Australia


Alan
-- 
And he sees the vision splendid of the sunlit plains extended
And at night the wond'rous glory of the everlasting stars

Clancy of the Overflow



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Subject: Re: OT Next Gen Architecture. 
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2001 09:02:19 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: OT Next Gen Architecture. 
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Replied off-list.  If anyone else is interested, you can
email me a note (off-list) and I'll forward my discussion
to you, too.

rip

At 10:20 AM 9/28/01 -0700, Alan Kellogg wrote:
>Anything you can talk about? I've heard about photonic and biotonic (lamprey brain for example) set-ups, but nothing concrete. Or is it more along the lines of computer architecture based around the new Motorola chip (G5 Macs on the way!)
>
>Alan



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Subject: Re: Poll closure
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*** EOOH ***
From: "A Irving" <aignome@dingoblue.net.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Poll closure
Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2001 20:38:41 +1000
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From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
> Isn't evolution based upon natural selection and mutation?
>
> Do we assume that their is a colony of "loch ness " creatures that are
> breeding, or is it some ultra-old dinosaur (which if it aint the only one,
> would not have evolved?)
>
> If I'm wrong, please be nice, I'm only an arts student:)
>
> Thanks
> Darragh
> -=-=
> www.iamtheporkfireman.com
> [Email]: s356179@student.uq.edu.au [ICQ]: 114283262
Yes, I find it unlikely that one dinosaur would be millions of years old and
choose to live in a lake in scotland for that time period. If it was a
slowly evolved relative of an original dinosaur (yes, so other ones would
have to be present) then it would no longer be 'Jurassic' as that refers to
a time period. <G>



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Subject: Re: Poll closure
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Donal K. Fellows" <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Poll closure
Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2001 11:52:44 +0100
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"A Irving" <aignome@dingoblue.net.au>
> Yes, I find it unlikely that one dinosaur would be millions of years
> old and choose to live in a lake in scotland for that time period.

Not without thermal underwear; even in summer Loch Ness is chilly.

Donal (What did Nessie eat before the evolution of the wild haggis?)
-- 
Donal K. Fellows, Department of Computer Science, University of Manchester, UK.
(work) fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk     Tel: +44-161-275-6137  (preferred email addr.)
(home) donal@ugglan.demon.co.uk  Tel: +44-1274-401017   Mobile: +44-7957-298955
http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~fellowsd/  (Don't quote my .sig; I've seen it before!)



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Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2001 12:56:15 +0100 (BST)
From: Michael Gibson <gibbyfish@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Poll closure
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> Not without thermal underwear; even in summer Loch Ness is chilly.
> 
> Donal (What did Nessie eat before the evolution of the wild haggis?)

... Sabre-toothed haggis?



====Mike,
Gibfish of Faringdonia

"I meant, have you ploughed the ocean waves at all?"
Colon gave him a cunning look.
"Ah, you can't catch me with that one, sir," he said.  "Everyone knows the horses would sink."

____________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk
or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie



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Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2001 09:52:25 +1000
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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At 11:52 AM 1/10/01 +0100, Donal K. Fellows wrote:
>"A Irving" <aignome@dingoblue.net.au>
> > Yes, I find it unlikely that one dinosaur would be millions of years
> > old and choose to live in a lake in scotland for that time period.
>
>Not without thermal underwear; even in summer Loch Ness is chilly.

So's the ocean.


>Donal (What did Nessie eat before the evolution of the wild haggis?)


Wild bagpipes.



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2001 19:00:20 -0500
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From: Nat Russo <nrusso@cox-internet.com>
Subject: Hello again
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Hi Folks,

I just wanted to drop in again and say "hello"!  It's been a couple of 
years since I last participated in the list, so I've been looking forward 
to hearing from everyone again.

I re-subscribed a couple of days ago and noticed that the list is pretty 
quiet.  Most notable, however, was the absence of any posts from Ray.  Does 
he still frequent these parts, or has he decided to not post to the list 
anymore?

Anyway,  it's great to see some familiar names again!

Nat Russo



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2001 10:30:05 +1000
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Hamish Laws <h_laws@bigpond.com>
Subject: Re: Hello again
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At 07:00 PM 1/10/01 -0500, Nat Russo wrote:
>Hi Folks,
>
>I just wanted to drop in again and say "hello"!  It's been a couple of 
>years since I last participated in the list, so I've been looking forward 
>to hearing from everyone again.
>
>I re-subscribed a couple of days ago and noticed that the list is pretty 
>quiet.  Most notable, however, was the absence of any posts from 
>Ray.  Does he still frequent these parts, or has he decided to not post to 
>the list anymore?
>
>Anyway,  it's great to see some familiar names again!
Wow, it's the day that old-timers return (well I haven't exactly left, I've 
just spent a long time not reading much of the mail...)



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> -----Original Message-----
> From: Richard Williamson [mailto:richard.williamson@windriver.com]
> Sent: Friday, September 28, 2001 7:46 PM
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Subject: Re: OT: Programming Languages
> 
> 
> At 06:54 PM 9/28/01 +1000, Brad_A_Krahe@allegiance.com.au wrote:
> >Richard or is that Dick ?
> 
> Let's see.  The first rule of comedy is you never, ever, 
> make fun of someone for something that they didn't choose
> or have no control over.
> 
> I didn't choose my name.  So trying to poke fun at me 
> by selecting a common diminutive of my name which has
> other less salubrious connotations doesn't really work.
> 
> Nice try though.   
> 

 Have no control over ? Last time I checked you could legally change your
name.

 Allan 



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Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2001 18:41:49 -0600
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: feistfans-l@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: future Riftwar books
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It is known that there is currently no US publisher for Honoured Enemy
(and presumably future titles of that series).

What about future Riftwar Legacy novels? I've just started Tear of the
Gods and I can't wait for the other books planned for this series.

Craig J. Ries



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From: "Luke Coghill" <cisco_kid007@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re: future Riftwar books
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Listn i've just started to read ray's books and there great but i cant find 
a list of the books he's writtern can some one please, send me a list if 
possible?

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp



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From: "Cameron Duncan" <cduncan@amadeus.com.au>
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Go to the publication section (I think) at crydee.com

Cameron

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Luke Coghill
> Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2001 11:20
> To: FEISTFANS-L
> Subject: Re: future Riftwar books
>
>
> Listn i've just started to read ray's books and there great but i
> cant find
> a list of the books he's writtern can some one please, send me a list if
> possible?
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>
>



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Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2001 19:35:06 -0600
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: future Riftwar books
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Luke Coghill wrote:
> 
> Listn i've just started to read ray's books and there great but i cant find
> a list of the books he's writtern can some one please, send me a list if
> possible?

Here's the list I've compiled:

Feist's Riftwar books

The Riftwar Saga
  Magician ( Apprentice and Master )
  Silverthorn
  A Darkness at Sethanon

The Empire Trilogy
  Daughter of the Empire - With Janny Wurts
  Servant of the Empire - With Janny Wurts
  Mistress of the Empire - With Janny Wurts

The Riftwar Stories 
  Prince of the Blood
  The Kings Buccaneer

The Serpentwar Saga
  Shadow of a Dark Queen
  Rise of a Merchant Prince
  Rage of a Demon King
  Shards of a Broken Crown

The Riftwar Legacy
  Krondor the Betrayal
  Krondor the Assassins
  Krondor: Tear of the Gods
  Krondor: The Crawler (not yet released)
  Krondor: The Dark Mage (not yet released)

Legends of the Riftwar
  Honoured Enemy - With William Forstchen
  Murder in LaMut - With Joel Rosenberg (not yet released)
  Jimmy The Hand with S.M Stirling (not yet released)

Conclave of the Shadows
  Talon of the Silver Hawk (not yet released)

Other Midkemia Related Titles
  Atlas of Midkemia - With Steve Abrams (not yet released)

Other
  Faerie Tale



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> -----Original Message-----
> From: Darragh Murray [mailto:s356179@student.uq.edu.au]
> Sent: Monday, October 01, 2001 3:00 PM
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Subject: Re: Poll closure
> 
> 
> > > (23/114) believe in the Loch Ness Monster.
> > Perhaps it was rip's wording. "A 'Jurassic' creature". If 
> there is some form
> > of monster in Lake Ness then it surely would have evolved, 
> to a degree, and
> > so no longer be classed as jurassic <G>
> 
> Isn't evolution based upon natural selection and mutation?
> 
> Do we assume that their is a colony of "loch ness " creatures that are
> breeding, or is it some ultra-old dinosaur (which if it aint 
> the only one,
> would not have evolved?)
> 
> If I'm wrong, please be nice, I'm only an arts student:)
>
 I've heard that crocodiles have been in their current form for many
millenia (ie. thousands or years). Species don't necessarily evolve without
reason.

 Allan
 
> Thanks
> Darragh
> -=-=
> www.iamtheporkfireman.com
> [Email]: s356179@student.uq.edu.au [ICQ]: 114283262
> 
> 



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Craig forgot to include the three short stories.

"Profit and the Grey Assassin" - Published 1982 fantasy book #4
"The Wood Boy" published in Legends (1998?)
"Geraldo's Incredible Trick" published in a few collections. notably "the
magic lovers treasury of the fantastic " Edited by Margeret Weis.

> Luke Coghill wrote:
> >
> > Listn i've just started to read ray's books and there great but i cant find
> > a list of the books he's writtern can some one please, send me a list if
> > possible?
>
> Here's the list I've compiled:
>
> Feist's Riftwar books
>
> The Riftwar Saga
>   Magician ( Apprentice and Master )
>   Silverthorn
>   A Darkness at Sethanon
>
> The Empire Trilogy
>   Daughter of the Empire - With Janny Wurts
>   Servant of the Empire - With Janny Wurts
>   Mistress of the Empire - With Janny Wurts
>
> The Riftwar Stories
>   Prince of the Blood
>   The Kings Buccaneer
>
> The Serpentwar Saga
>   Shadow of a Dark Queen
>   Rise of a Merchant Prince
>   Rage of a Demon King
>   Shards of a Broken Crown
>
> The Riftwar Legacy
>   Krondor the Betrayal
>   Krondor the Assassins
>   Krondor: Tear of the Gods
>   Krondor: The Crawler (not yet released)
>   Krondor: The Dark Mage (not yet released)
>
> Legends of the Riftwar
>   Honoured Enemy - With William Forstchen
>   Murder in LaMut - With Joel Rosenberg (not yet released)
>   Jimmy The Hand with S.M Stirling (not yet released)
>
> Conclave of the Shadows
>   Talon of the Silver Hawk (not yet released)
>
> Other Midkemia Related Titles
>   Atlas of Midkemia - With Steve Abrams (not yet released)
>
> Other
>   Faerie Tale
>
>

Thanks
Darragh
-=-=
www.iamtheporkfireman.com
[Email]: s356179@student.uq.edu.au [ICQ]: 114283262



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Subject: Re: Very quiet
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2001 14:04:10 +1000
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Linda Simpson <esimpson-linda@powerup.com.au>
Subject: Re: Very quiet
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Okay, 

sorry guys, had a problem with powerup, as I did not have a single message
within 3 days.

Sorted it all out.

Linda

At 01:25 AM 1/10/01 -0500, you wrote:
>Eh, just you.  Seriously, I think what happened is most of the OT is
>getting off the list finally and we are shifting back towards the on
>topic things, which is currently in a limited state, and I guess it
>will remain limited until Talons comes out (given we know a huge
>amount about the various characters and events that we are likely to
>see in the other books on the way)
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Just wondering is it very quiet, or is it just me?
>>
>> Linda
>>
>
>



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Subject: Re: OT: Programming Languages
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From: LAR <lds627@home.com>
Subject: Re: OT: Programming Languages
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At 07:08 PM 9/28/01 +1000, Brad_A_Krahe@allegiance.com.au wrote:
>Judging by your language and reliance on books, you must be very young and
>not very good and what you do! your little story was not impressive at all
>to myself. Why do wannabe's drop in the "Military" word.

Oh my DEAR lord, haven't been around here long have you?


>The printing off part was for the poeple that need the comfort of a hard
>copy such as yourself.
>
>Yes I'm a consultant, with the same company for 5 years now. You just don't
>know how many times I get called out when text book jockey's like yourself
>have made mistakes. Thats why I get paid as much as I do. Clients like to
>see someone how can walk in, know what their doing and fix their problem -
>looking it up! as you do would cost my clients to much downtime and money.

A consultant for FIVE whole years? REALLY? And they let you out by yourself?
Just had to put a few cents in to this argument. As somebody who has been a 
consultant for most of the last 20 years, I had a few things I wanted to 
respond to this post.

1) AS to your going out to repair what the text book jockey;s do, I can't 
tell you the # of times I had to follow after SAP and Oracle consultants. 
Primarily because they tend to hire kids straight out of MIT and Stanford 
with no practical experience, bill them out at $1000 a day and screw their 
customers. T

2) In my years I have had the privilege to work with some of the giants in 
the industry. Kernigan , Ritchie and Pike,  Garcia and McManus (the men who 
brought out the first PC from IBM), the gentleman who headed the 
development of NETVIEW, not to mention men who have founded some of today's 
biggest Silicon Valley companies. The one lesson that all of them pounded 
in my head was,  NO education is wasted.

3) Any consultant who is married to a particular technology are the ones I 
avoid. When all you have is a hammer, pretty soon everything tends to look 
like a nail.

4) One of the best engineers at one of the dot coms I consulted for was one 
of those text book jockey's as you call him. Fact is he was not an engineer 
at all, but an SE. The perl cookbook was the heart of just about everything 
he did, and know what, it worked. That particular cookbook is a rarity, it 
lives up to it's name. In that the code examples it gives you and the logic 
the author uses he was able to extrapolate and use the code provided as a 
basis to a majority of the problems he ran into. (Just as a good cookbook 
provides base recipes that can have thousands of variatons).

At this point, I do process re engineering. IOW, I fix companies.  Most of 
what I do involves undoing the dogma that idiot consultants taught them 
that have nothing to do with the practicality of getting things done. The 
first thing I do when I get somewhere is go talk to the developers, then I 
talk to the support people and professional services. These are the people 
who do the REAL work. After speaking to them, I can usually turn a company 
around in 6 months. Unless of course they have a consultant trying to sell 
them a new software system, like SAP. Then it takes me 3 months, after I 
throw the consultant out.

>If you were as half a good as you think you are, you'd be a consultant,
>otherwise you wouldn't go on about it.


If you were a tenth as good as you think YOU are, you could do something 
more than be a consultant for SAP. As for RIP, just a couple of very short 
conversations with him related to work has shown me that he would get along 
very comfortably with the gentlemen I mentioned at the beginning. Somehow I 
doubt you would even be able to open your mouth without sticking your foot 
in it around them.


>I don't get billed out by the quater hour, little jobs like that I leave
>for the likes of you.

I get PAID 350/hr when I consult (Bill much higher if I go through an 
agent). How about you?

Larry
Who finds the idea that 5 years working as a drone for SAP makes somebody a 
consultant laughable.


>Goodbye......................
>
>Regards,
>
>Brad Krahe
>SAP Business & Support Consultant
>Allegiance Systems
>
>
>
>
>Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com> on 28/09/2001
>18:31:58
>
>Please respond to FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>
>To:   FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
>cc:    (bcc: Brad A Krahe/HCS)
>Subject:  Re: OT: Programming Languages
>
>
>
>
>At 11:27 AM 9/28/01 +1000, Brad_A_Krahe@allegiance.com.au wrote:
> >Anestis.
> >
> >That's why you download the manual and print it off.
>
>GMAB.  Do you know how wasteful that is in resources and
>time?  Oh, I get it, you go to a friends house and use their
>ink/toner/electricity and probably paper, too.  So it's
>not a waste of /your/ resources, so it doesn't matter.
>
> >Sorry, if you or the list I assume you have internet access.
>
>*buzzer* Sorry Mr. Contestant! You've made a false assumption!
>What do we have for our contestant, Johnny?
>
>I used to be a technical support engineer.  In two instances
>I had to go on-site to diagnose and solve a couple of really
>wicked problems.  While on-site at the customers, I was not
>given access to the Internet because they were both
>military-industrial houses and the systems in use were
>not public.  They didn't even have email.
>
>If I did not have my books, I would not have been able to
>solve the problems.
>
>Also, I'd like to know how I'm supposed to get Internet
>access on the bus on my way to and from work?
>
> >There's always
> >a library/school/cyber cafe/friends house so these days its not that hard
> >to access the internet. Considering here in Australia a good code book
> >(believe me they are hard to find) are worth well over $100.00 which is to
> >much for some people to pay - where as going to your  library/school/cyber
> >cafe/friends house and printing off a manual on-line is alot cheaper.
>
>*scoffs*  'Cheaper' maybe financially, but how much is
>your time worth.  You're a consultant (it says there), so
>I'm pretty sure you know to the nearest quarter-hour how
>much your time is worth.
>
>rip
>
>
> >No offense, but he wants to learn Perl, Knows PHP,html/java script a
>little
> >- common sense implies he must have an internet connection somewhere to
>use
> >otherwise why learn ????
>
>I use perl all the time.  For the stuff I'm doing at work,
>it is quicker to debug then trying to compile c or c++,
>is easier to modify quickly to try something out, and
>/I'm not using it for the web/.  It is a tool.  Nothing
>more, nothing less.
>
> >I'm amazed how often people prefer to flame others
> >rather than be helpful which is all I'm trying to do, so if you haven't
>got
> >any helpful comments - don't post.
>
>Anestis was helpfully pointing out that you yourself
>weren't being helpful.
>
>rip



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Subject: Re: OT: Programming Languages
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From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT: Programming Languages
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2001 04:35:48 -0500
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Lets see the score should stand something like this about now:
    Score:
        Brad: -4(x5)
        Rip: 4(x10)
        Larry: 1(x20)

    Anyway as much as I am amused by this whole thing, I think you
two (Rip & Larry) have sufficiently rammed Brad's foot down his
throat (though I admit he helped you do it).  Can we drop the little
CS/IT/SAP/etc. flamewar now?

-James

"Nothing beats the combination of Education AND Experience."



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References: <5.1.0.14.2.20011001085952.00ee3b50@mail.swindon.wrsec.fr>
Subject: Re: OT Next Gen Architecture. 
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2001 20:41:26 +1000
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From: "James Roberts" <jroberts6@vtown.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT Next Gen Architecture. 
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2001 20:41:26 +1000
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Please send me the info. Send to jroberts6@vtown.com.au .

Thanks & Have A Great Day!

Jamie

----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Williamson" <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Monday, October 01, 2001 6:02 PM
Subject: Re: OT Next Gen Architecture.


> Replied off-list.  If anyone else is interested, you can
> email me a note (off-list) and I'll forward my discussion
> to you, too.
>
> rip
>
> At 10:20 AM 9/28/01 -0700, Alan Kellogg wrote:
> >Anything you can talk about? I've heard about photonic and biotonic
> >(lamprey brain for example) set-ups, but nothing concrete. Or is it more
> >along the lines of computer architecture based around the new Motorola chip
> >(G5 Macs on the way!)
> >
> >Alan
>



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Subject: Re: OT Next Gen Architecture. 
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2001 21:09:02 +1000
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From: "James Roberts" <jroberts6@vtown.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT Next Gen Architecture. 
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2001 21:09:02 +1000
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Ops! Sorry I ment to send to Rip but I sent it here by acident. Sorry!

Jamie

----- Original Message -----
From: "James Roberts" <jroberts6@vtown.com.au>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2001 8:41 PM
Subject: Re: OT Next Gen Architecture.


> Please send me the info. Send to jroberts6@vtown.com.au .
>
> Thanks & Have A Great Day!
>
> Jamie
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Richard Williamson" <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
> To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> Sent: Monday, October 01, 2001 6:02 PM
> Subject: Re: OT Next Gen Architecture.
>
>
> > Replied off-list.  If anyone else is interested, you can
> > email me a note (off-list) and I'll forward my discussion
> > to you, too.
> >
> > rip
> >
> > At 10:20 AM 9/28/01 -0700, Alan Kellogg wrote:
> > >Anything you can talk about? I've heard about photonic and biotonic
> (lamprey brain for example) set-ups, but nothing concrete. Or is it more
> along the lines of computer architecture based around the new Motorola
chip
> (G5 Macs on the way!)
> > >
> > >Alan
> >
>



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Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2001 14:27:26 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: RE: OT: Programming Languages
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At 10:36 AM 10/2/01 +1000, Allan Mills wrote:
>> At 06:54 PM 9/28/01 +1000, Brad_A_Krahe@allegiance.com.au wrote:
>> >Richard or is that Dick ?
>> 
>> Let's see.  The first rule of comedy is you never, ever, 
>> make fun of someone for something that they didn't choose
>> or have no control over.
>> 
>> I didn't choose my name.  So trying to poke fun at me 
>> by selecting a common diminutive of my name which has
>> other less salubrious connotations doesn't really work.
>> 
>> Nice try though.   
>> 
>
> Have no control over ? Last time I checked you could legally change your
>name.

Didn't choose /OR/ no control over.  I didn't choose
my name...and all told I really don't mind it.  Richard
is a reasonable name for reasonable people.  Perfectly
normal--the name of a King or Commoner, Noble, Knight or
Nobody.  

rip



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Subject: Re: Hello again
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Hey Nat,

Ray's still around, but the conversation really needs a new
book to be sparked...plus it's that dead time around the start
of the school year in NorAm so a lot of the univ students 
are busy trying to find their classes.  It'll pick up again 
towards the end of October...

Have you seen
http://www.ferkel.co.uk/pl_fei_results.html
or did you return after that post?

rip



At 07:00 PM 10/1/01 -0500, Nat Russo wrote:
>Hi Folks,
>
>I just wanted to drop in again and say "hello"!  It's been a couple of years since I last participated in the list, so I've been looking forward to hearing from everyone again.
>
>I re-subscribed a couple of days ago and noticed that the list is pretty quiet.  Most notable, however, was the absence of any posts from Ray.  Does he still frequent these parts, or has he decided to not post to the list anymore?
>
>Anyway,  it's great to see some familiar names again!
>
>Nat Russo



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Subject: Re: future Riftwar books
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Subject: Re: future Riftwar books
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> Conclave of the Shadows
>   Talon of the Silver Hawk (not yet released)

This is the name of the main character, not the name of the book, 
IIRC.

Syl



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>
>     Anyway as much as I am amused by this whole thing, I think you
>two (Rip & Larry) have sufficiently rammed Brad's foot down his
>throat (though I admit he helped you do it).  Can we drop the little
>CS/IT/SAP/etc. flamewar now?
>
>-James
>
>"Nothing beats the combination of Education AND Experience."

Done, and my apologies to the list. I should have let it died rather than 
respond.

Larry



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Subject: RE: future Riftwar books
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2001 10:02:25 -0600
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Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: "Scott Hendrick" <SHendrick@cqg.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: future Riftwar books
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2001 10:02:25 -0600
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When Ray spoke in Denver a few months ago, I'm pretty sure that he said that
was going to be the title of the next book. ("Talon of the Silver Hawk")

Scott Hendrick

> > Conclave of the Shadows
> >   Talon of the Silver Hawk (not yet released)
>
> This is the name of the main character, not the name of the book,
> IIRC.
>
> Syl



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Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2001 11:55:18 -0600
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: future Riftwar books
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Scott Hendrick wrote:
> 
> When Ray spoke in Denver a few months ago, I'm pretty sure that he said that
> was going to be the title of the next book. ("Talon of the Silver Hawk")

*nods* I got that list from Crydee.com sometime a month ago when I was
going through trying to figure out which Feist books I did and didn't
have.

Wasn't aware of the short stories though :)

Craig J. Ries



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Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2001 16:59:33 -0500
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Nat Russo <nrusso@cox-internet.com>
Subject: Re: Hello again
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Great link!  Nope, that's the first time I've seen it.

Nat

At 02:28 PM 10/2/01 +0100, you wrote:
>Hey Nat,
>
>Ray's still around, but the conversation really needs a new
>book to be sparked...plus it's that dead time around the start
>of the school year in NorAm so a lot of the univ students
>are busy trying to find their classes.  It'll pick up again
>towards the end of October...
>
>Have you seen
>http://www.ferkel.co.uk/pl_fei_results.html
>or did you return after that post?
>
>rip
>
>
>
>At 07:00 PM 10/1/01 -0500, Nat Russo wrote:
> >Hi Folks,
> >
> >I just wanted to drop in again and say "hello"!  It's been a couple of 
> years since I last participated in the list, so I've been looking forward 
> to hearing from everyone again.
> >
> >I re-subscribed a couple of days ago and noticed that the list is pretty 
> quiet.  Most notable, however, was the absence of any posts from 
> Ray.  Does he still frequent these parts, or has he decided to not post 
> to the list anymore?
> >
> >Anyway,  it's great to see some familiar names again!
> >
> >Nat Russo



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From: Kenneth Jones <killkenny@thos.co.za>
Subject: RE: future Riftwar books
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Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2001 08:31:36 +0200
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Kenneth Jones <killkenny@thos.co.za>
Subject: RE: future Riftwar books
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There's that, and you can pre-order it here:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0002246813/qid=1002090647/sr=1-16/ref=sr_sp_re/202-0085537-3588648

At 10:02 AM 10/2/01 -0600, you wrote:
>When Ray spoke in Denver a few months ago, I'm pretty sure that he said that
>was going to be the title of the next book. ("Talon of the Silver Hawk")
>
>Scott Hendrick
>
> > > Conclave of the Shadows
> > >   Talon of the Silver Hawk (not yet released)
> >
> > This is the name of the main character, not the name of the book,
> > IIRC.
> >
> > Syl



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Subject: OT Re: See you in a few days
Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2001 22:13:54 +1000
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From: "James Barker" <heechee@softhome.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: OT Re: See you in a few days
Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2001 22:13:54 +1000
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----- Original Message -----
From: Alan <Jherek@bigpond.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Monday, October 01, 2001 5:12 PM
Subject: Re: See you in a few days

> > Where is Nowra?
>
> New South Wales, Australia
>

Nowra is also the home of the infamous Australian BLTF (Bad Luck
Transvestite Fairy). For those of you who don't know him/her, just think of
him/her as the Enforcer of Murphy's Law...

In three days, I think we had about one thing go the way we wanted. In
between car keys broken off in ignition barrels, leaky tents, belligerent
rednecks, torrential rains and lightning strikes, catastrophically leaking
water bottles (one litre of water can really ruin a climbing guidebook),
inch-long and centimetre-deep barbed wire leg wounds (that's gonna scar, I
just know it), dodgy budget climbing shoes, unreliable car mechanics, and a
four-hour hitchhiking epic (to travel a total of about five kilometres), we
only got about six hours of climbing out of three days. Bloody nice climbing
though!

Anyways, back again.

Cheers,
James



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Subject: New UK paperback Magician
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*** EOOH ***
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Subject: New UK paperback Magician
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The following links to a re release of Magician in paperback

Http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0007123280/qid=1002132258/sr=1-2
5/ref=sr_sp_re/026-1144265-7539622

Interesting cover, with the words Voyager Classics

Ray now your words are considered Classic, does it make you feel a bit 
older :)

If you search you will also find the Deluxe 2002 HB listed

-- 
John

john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.

Raymond E Feist Ring
http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm



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Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2001 15:42:35 -0700
Subject: Re: New UK paperback Magician
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Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2001 15:42:35 -0700
Subject: Re: New UK paperback Magician
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Wednesday, October 3, 2001, at 11:17 AM, John wrote:

>
> The following links to a re release of Magician in paperback
>
> http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0007123280/qid=1002132258/sr=1-2
> 5/ref=sr_sp_re/026-1144265-7539622
>
> Interesting cover, with the words Voyager Classics
>
> Ray now your words are considered Classic, does it make you feel a bit 
> older :)
>
> If you search you will also find the Deluxe 2002 HB listed
>
> -- John
>
> john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
> http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.
>
> Raymond E Feist Ring
> http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm
>
>
>

Harper sent me the flyer for that series a while back.  Forgot about it.

Nice to be thought of in their "this is our best" line.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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From: "Steven McCarthy" <steven@connect.ie>
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Subject: RE: Poll closure
Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 00:12:19 +0100
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From: "Steven McCarthy" <steven@connect.ie>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Poll closure
Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 00:12:19 +0100
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I must be in touch with my feminine side so *L* Only SF I ever read much of
was Asimov. Still trying to catch up on his books.

Steve

"Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then
do it." -- Lazarus Long

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Raymond Feist
>
> Don't know.  Up to about 10 years ago, the conventional wisdom was
> fantasy was mostly female dominated (readership) while more men read
> science fiction.
>
> That may have changed and I really haven't bothered to keep up.
>
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
>
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
> stupidity.
>
>



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From: "Immortal QuestWar" <animation85@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re: Programming books
Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2001 02:26:11 +0000
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Can anyone explain to me what a code a mud runs on and knows where i could 
find some books relating.  Or a small mud that could teach me how to program 
in mud language.


                                          Thanks,
                                         Immortal QuestWar

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp



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Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2001 21:34:06 -0600
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Programming books
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Immortal QuestWar wrote:
> 
> Can anyone explain to me what a code a mud runs on and knows where i could
> find some books relating.  Or a small mud that could teach me how to program
> in mud language.

I play on an LP mud, which uses the Lima Bean mudlib. Ie: it's a C
derivative.
I'm not sure about any books or anything, but you could try looking
through www.mudconnect.com for any MU*'s that are looking for
builders/coders.

Any number of muds should be able to help you out and get you on your
way.


Craig J. Ries



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From: "Zavia Tiplady" <s354366@student.uq.edu.au>
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Subject: Honoured Enemy
Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 21:44:51 +1000
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From: "Zavia Tiplady" <s354366@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Honoured Enemy
Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 21:44:51 +1000
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Ray,

I've been lurking on this list on and off for a few years and
I decided that it's high time I posted something.

My copy of Honoured Enemy finally became available at
my local library today so I went and picked it. This was
not a smart move on my part, as I have a mid semester
exam for one of my chem eng subjects tomorrow morning 
at 8:00.

I started reading it on the bus home from the library and 
didn't put it down until about 15 minutes ago when I
finished it. I really enjoyed it and can't wait for the other
tales of the riftwar books to be written.

S
P
O
I
L
E
R

S
P
A
C
E

I especially liked all the references to other characters that
we, the readers, have met over the years, Gorath, Delekan,
Murad, Tomas, Murmandamus and all the rest.

It was great that you were able to fill in some of the details,
although minor, of the gathering of the moredhel clans at 
Sar-Sargoth and of how Murad rose to prominence.

The insight into "the returning" of the eledhel was something
that I also enjoyed.

Once again, thank you for such a pleasant diversion from
studies and I look forward to future books.

Zavia Tiplady.



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Subject: Re: Programming books
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Subject: Re: Programming books
From: Falerin Ardendor <falerin@ultraisp.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Date: 04 Oct 2001 16:09:02 -0400
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On 03 Oct 2001 21:34:06 -0600, Craig J. Ries wrote:
> Immortal QuestWar wrote:
> > 
> > Can anyone explain to me what a code a mud runs on and knows where i could
> > find some books relating.  Or a small mud that could teach me how to program
> > in mud language.
> 
> I play on an LP mud, which uses the Lima Bean mudlib. Ie: it's a C
> derivative.
> I'm not sure about any books or anything, but you could try looking
> through www.mudconnect.com for any MU*'s that are looking for
> builders/coders.
> 
> Any number of muds should be able to help you out and get you on your
> way.

I run an LPMud and it the mud is coded in C. The internal programming
for
mud objects is in an intepreted C Derivative called LPC...There are many
many other derivatives out there most are base coded in C or in C++




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		<3BBBD8AE.9118F84B@yifan.net> <1002226144.1047.7.camel@Farpoint.local.net>
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Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2001 14:46:54 -0600
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
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Falerin Ardendor wrote:
> 
> I run an LPMud and it the mud is coded in C. The internal programming
> for mud objects is in an intepreted C Derivative called LPC...There are many
> many other derivatives out there most are base coded in C or in C++

*nods* I assumed as much, but didn't want to say for sure until somebody
else confirmed it for me. I've played on both an LP and a DIKU, but only
coded on an LP.

You'll find alot of similarities, really, and every mud has it's own
unique things anyways. The way I've learned to code so far for the MUD I
play is "code by example": read over some code, figure out what it does,
duplicate it for what I need :)

Craig J. Ries



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Subject: Forgotten Realms
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Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 15:34:58 -0700
Subject: Forgotten Realms
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
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I recall some of you were talking about D&D's FR series a while back.

Hasbro just announced they're going to do a syndicated weekly TV show 
based on FR next season.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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----- Original Message -----
From: "Raymond Feist" <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <feistfANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2001 3:34 PM
Subject: Forgotten Realms


> I recall some of you were talking about D&D's FR series a while back.
>
> Hasbro just announced they're going to do a syndicated weekly TV show
> based on FR next season.
>
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
>
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
> stupidity.
>
While this should be interesting.. I keep waiting to hear that someone has
picked up some of your stuff for TV Ray.  I remember awhile back that there
might have been a TV show entitled "Krondor".   Are there any talks that you
can divulge us on that may lead to this, or is it just wishful thinking by
me.

Thanks,

Jason

P.S.  Your Chargers are looking good.  Defenite Playoffs possiblity.



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Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2001 09:17:29 +1000
From: "Jason Mulligan" <sulimo@bigpond.net.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On 4/10/2001 at 3:34 PM Raymond Feist wrote:

>I recall some of you were talking about D&D's FR series a while back.
>
>Hasbro just announced they're going to do a syndicated weekly TV show 
>based on FR next season.

Are you sure? it was my understanding that some company (they 
make Andromeda and some other shows) just picked up the option. I thought that 
would be in case to the reaction Fellowship of the Ring was positive enough they 
would have a nice property to make a fantasy show out of. 

I know there was lots of outrage on some D&D groups because the initial statement 
mentioned the phrase 'childrens television show'. This fear of a show for little kids got 
debunked by a statement from Wizards of the Coast a few days later.

And then there was a second press release from Wizards not mentioning kids, the start of which was:

"Los Angeles, September 18th, 2001 -- Fireworks Television, a division of CanWest Entertainment, 
has entered into a licensing agreement with Hasbro, Inc. [NYSE:HAS] for Hasbro's Forgotten Realms 
property, which is based on the Dungeons & Dragons roleplaying game by the company's Wizards of 
the Coast subsidiary.

Under terms of the agreement, Fireworks will develop a live action television series based on the 
game setting and novels of Forgotten Realms. Wizards of the Coast and the Hasbro Properties 
Group, the Company's intellectual property development arm, will work with Fireworks to develop 
story lines for the television series."

In any case, Fellowships success and with Realms show happening perhaps we'll see renewed 
efforts on the Midkemian TV show front?



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Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2001 17:52:54 -0600
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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Jason Mulligan wrote:
> 
> Are you sure? it was my understanding that some company (they
> make Andromeda and some other shows) just picked up the option.

This was discussed a little bit over on the Official DL Mailing List.

The company that is to produce this show has produced Andromeda, Earth:
Final Conflict, and the Beastmaster series. I've watched a bit of
Andromeda, but care not at all for the other two... these shows are
nothing but for syndication, and I'd rather a D&D-based tv series be
more like a Star Trek: TNG or something: something that actually shows
promise and will be watched and will be good :)

> In any case, Fellowships success and with Realms show happening perhaps we'll see
> renewed efforts on the Midkemian TV show front?

Well, they were supposed to do a Pern tv series, but it got canned. Then
there was word that somebody else was going to do it (I thought it was
somebody involved with Star Trek), but I've not heard anything for
months now.

Craig J. Ries



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Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2001 10:20:56 +1000
From: "Jason Mulligan" <sulimo@bigpond.net.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On 4/10/2001 at 5:52 PM Craig J. Ries wrote:

>nothing but for syndication, and I'd rather a D&D-based tv series be
>more like a Star Trek: TNG or something: something that actually shows
>promise and will be watched and will be good :)

Perhaps. Although I hope they dont treat FR continuity as Paramount 
does with trek.

Personally, I'd like to see it more like B5.

>> In any case, Fellowships success and with Realms show happening perhaps
>we'll see
>> renewed efforts on the Midkemian TV show front?
>
>Well, they were supposed to do a Pern tv series, but it got canned. Then
>there was word that somebody else was going to do it (I thought it was
>somebody involved with Star Trek), but I've not heard anything for
>months now.

Yeah. The writer of the LOTR movies (Philipa Bowen) is apparently going to be 
scripting a mini-series of the Earthsea series (for SciFI I think). That would be 
cool to see.




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Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2001 18:54:19 -0600
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From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
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Subject: Re: Forgotten Realms
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Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2001 18:54:19 -0600
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Forgotten Realms
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Jason Mulligan wrote:
> 
> Perhaps. Although I hope they dont treat FR continuity as Paramount
> does with trek.

Depends on who's in charge and how much influence those that actually
work with FR, like Greenwood, Salvatore, etc, get to work with this
show.

> Personally, I'd like to see it more like B5.

They're doing another tv movie now for Sci-Fi Channel. It's something
involving the Rangers and Stracyznski hopes it will lead to another tv
series.
Word has it that Stracyznski already has a way to tie up loose ends with
the Crusade series as well within a potential Rangers tv series :)

Craig J. Ries



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Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2001 18:15:45 -0700
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Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2001 18:15:45 -0700
From: Carl Dershem <dershem@home.com>
Organization: Project Selene
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Forgotten Realms
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Jason Mulligan wrote:
> 
> On 4/10/2001 at 5:52 PM Craig J. Ries wrote:
> 
> >nothing but for syndication, and I'd rather a D&D-based tv series be
> >more like a Star Trek: TNG or something: something that actually shows
> >promise and will be watched and will be good :)
> 
> Perhaps. Although I hope they dont treat FR continuity as Paramount
> does with trek.

Trek conyinuity?  There's no such animal!

cd



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Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2001 18:18:49 -0700
From: Carl Dershem <dershem@home.com>
Organization: Project Selene
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Forgotten Realms
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"Craig J. Ries" wrote:
> 
> > Personally, I'd like to see it more like B5.
> 
> They're doing another tv movie now for Sci-Fi Channel. It's something
> involving the Rangers and Stracyznski hopes it will lead to another tv
> series.
> Word has it that Stracyznski already has a way to tie up loose ends with
> the Crusade series as well within a potential Rangers tv series :)

"B5 - Legends of the rangers" takes place some 5 years after the end of
the B5 arc, which may allow it to wrap up some of the threads from
"Crusade".  JMS says the movies' all but done, and the odds of it going
into a series are very good, but entirely dependent on the ratings of
the movie/pilot.

"Jeremiah", the series Joe's shooting for Showtime, is currenty filming
in Vancouver, and looks interesting.

cd



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From: "Immortal QuestWar" <animation85@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re: Programming books
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Thanks a lot i thought since you guys where talking about programming i 
would ask.  Right now i play a mud and i thought it would be cool to build 
one.  Thanks again.  And yes i know it takes a lot of time and work to make 
one.


                                   Immortal QuestWar

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp



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Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2001 12:03:30 +1000
From: "Jason Mulligan" <sulimo@bigpond.net.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Forgotten Realms
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On 4/10/2001 at 6:15 PM Carl Dershem wrote:

>Jason Mulligan wrote:
>> 
>> On 4/10/2001 at 5:52 PM Craig J. Ries wrote:
>> 
>> >nothing but for syndication, and I'd rather a D&D-based tv series be
>> >more like a Star Trek: TNG or something: something that actually shows
>> >promise and will be watched and will be good :)
>> 
>> Perhaps. Although I hope they dont treat FR continuity as Paramount
>> does with trek.
>
>Trek conyinuity?  There's no such animal!

:) Thats because its been treated so poorly. It died from mistreatment.

Take Enterprise for example. It showed the 3rd version of the first contact situation 
between Humans and Klingons. And then there was the 4 days to the Klingon homeworld 
bit.

You would think that in deliberately making a prequel series they would make some 
effort on the continuity front. Then again it gives Paramount the chance to bring out 
books detailing the retconned timeline.








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Subject: Re: Programming books
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

At 01:19 AM 10/5/2001 +0000, Immortal QuestWar wrote:
 >Thanks a lot i thought since you guys where talking about programming i
 >would ask.  Right now i play a mud and i thought it would be cool to build
 >one.  Thanks again.  And yes i know it takes a lot of time and work to make
 >one.

Another alternative would be to use Lambda MOO, originally out
of Xerox PARC and now a project at Sourceforge.  Not having
worked on a MUD/MOO before, I can't vouch for the quality of
the code, but the LamdaMOO Programmer's Manual is well
written.

-Ray



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Subject: Re: Forgotten Realms
References: <0ADC98EB-B918-11D5-8019-003065A8A644@bittersea.com>
	 <200110050917290020.002096B3@mail-hub>
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Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2001 20:37:30 -0600
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Forgotten Realms
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Jason Mulligan wrote:
> 
> You would think that in deliberately making a prequel series they would make some
> effort on the continuity front. Then again it gives Paramount the chance to bring out
> books detailing the retconned timeline.

Michael Jan Friedman, iirc, already wrote one of the My Brother's Keeper
books with an explanation of the discrepency between TOS and
movie/beyond Klingons.
I've heard it was a very good explanation, but now it's shot to hell
too.

Oftimes I've found that the books do things that the tv show and/or
movies can only begin to imagine. Because of this, there's ALOT of stuff
in the books that I wish the shows would take into account.

I mean, if it takes books like the My Brother's Keeper (Klingon problem)
and Imzadi II (the unexplained end to the relationship between Worf and
Troi) to rationalize all the stupid crap that continually is ignored by
the writing staff, then they better start respecting it, imo.

Craig J. Ries



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From: "Diamond Joe" <diamondjoesmith@yahoo.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Forgotten Realms
Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 01:15:01 -0500
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From: "Diamond Joe" <diamondjoesmith@yahoo.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Forgotten Realms
Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 01:15:01 -0500
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

There IS no big secret about how the Klingons look. Plain and simple, the
Klingons with the forehead ridges are how RODDENBERRY wanted Klingons to
look. Had he had the budget on TOS, that IS how they would have looked.

I don't see it as being a bad thing that when they made Enterprise, they
kept things to how Roddenberry wanted it to look, rather than making it look
like it was done with a low 60's budget.

Joseph A. Smith


> Jason Mulligan wrote:
> >
> > You would think that in deliberately making a prequel series
> they would make some
> > effort on the continuity front. Then again it gives Paramount
> the chance to bring out
> > books detailing the retconned timeline.
>
> Michael Jan Friedman, iirc, already wrote one of the My Brother's Keeper
> books with an explanation of the discrepency between TOS and
> movie/beyond Klingons.
> I've heard it was a very good explanation, but now it's shot to hell
> too.
>
> Oftimes I've found that the books do things that the tv show and/or
> movies can only begin to imagine. Because of this, there's ALOT of stuff
> in the books that I wish the shows would take into account.
>
> I mean, if it takes books like the My Brother's Keeper (Klingon problem)
> and Imzadi II (the unexplained end to the relationship between Worf and
> Troi) to rationalize all the stupid crap that continually is ignored by
> the writing staff, then they better start respecting it, imo.
>
> Craig J. Ries
>



_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com



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References: <CKEDKEIMLMHNIIAFIHGPIEGBCDAA.diamondjoesmith@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Forgotten Realms
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From: "Andrew Scott" <a.sc0tt@home.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Forgotten Realms
Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 23:48:35 -0700
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if you've ever seen the episode 'trials and tribblations' where the DS9 crew
went back in time to the original 'the trouble with tribbles' episode they
flat out admitted that klingons had flat foreheads for a while. Warf's only
explanation was, "we dont talk about it with outsiders."




----- Original Message -----
From: "Diamond Joe" <diamondjoesmith@yahoo.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2001 11:15 PM
Subject: RE: Forgotten Realms


> There IS no big secret about how the Klingons look. Plain and simple, the
> Klingons with the forehead ridges are how RODDENBERRY wanted Klingons to
> look. Had he had the budget on TOS, that IS how they would have looked.
>
> I don't see it as being a bad thing that when they made Enterprise, they
> kept things to how Roddenberry wanted it to look, rather than making it look
> like it was done with a low 60's budget.
>
> Joseph A. Smith
>
>
> > Jason Mulligan wrote:
> > >
> > > You would think that in deliberately making a prequel series
> > they would make some
> > > effort on the continuity front. Then again it gives Paramount
> > the chance to bring out
> > > books detailing the retconned timeline.
> >
> > Michael Jan Friedman, iirc, already wrote one of the My Brother's Keeper
> > books with an explanation of the discrepency between TOS and
> > movie/beyond Klingons.
> > I've heard it was a very good explanation, but now it's shot to hell
> > too.
> >
> > Oftimes I've found that the books do things that the tv show and/or
> > movies can only begin to imagine. Because of this, there's ALOT of stuff
> > in the books that I wish the shows would take into account.
> >
> > I mean, if it takes books like the My Brother's Keeper (Klingon problem)
> > and Imzadi II (the unexplained end to the relationship between Worf and
> > Troi) to rationalize all the stupid crap that continually is ignored by
> > the writing staff, then they better start respecting it, imo.
> >
> > Craig J. Ries
> >
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>



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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Forgotten Realms
References: <CKEDKEIMLMHNIIAFIHGPIEGBCDAA.diamondjoesmith@yahoo.com>
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Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2001 00:45:15 -0600
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Forgotten Realms
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Diamond Joe wrote:
> 
> There IS no big secret about how the Klingons look. Plain and simple, the
> Klingons with the forehead ridges are how RODDENBERRY wanted Klingons to
> look. Had he had the budget on TOS, that IS how they would have looked.

I've heard this before.

> I don't see it as being a bad thing that when they made Enterprise, they
> kept things to how Roddenberry wanted it to look, rather than making it look
> like it was done with a low 60's budget.

Oh, I don't disagree. Far from it in fact, I'm glad they made them
consistent with the movies & newer shows.

However, I think it was utterly ridiculous for them to have Worf make
that comment in the DS9 episode "Trials & Tribbleations" that Klingons
"don't like to talk about it"... that makes it a problem, imo, rather
than just plain ignoring how they look.
Hell, if they wanted to make things more consistent, they could've went
and altered the Klingons in that episode to look like the Klingons with
the better makeup!

Craig J. Ries



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Subject: Different Subjects was (RE: Forgotten Realms/Star Trek/B5)
Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 07:02:58 -0700
Message-ID: <59C1ACFC618C6148AA1B10B87FF34CD7018BF360@sun.slnpb.sitelite.com>
Thread-Topic: Forgotten Realms
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*** EOOH ***
content-class: urn:content-classes:message
Subject: Different Subjects was (RE: Forgotten Realms/Star Trek/B5)
Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 07:02:58 -0700
Thread-Topic: Forgotten Realms
Thread-Index: AcFNaqPCGB6+AXy2Tf+duu6Ppr9qoQAO23Qg
From: "Russell Teeter" <rteeter@sitelite.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

May I interject with a request here.  If the subject is going to be
warped like this one has talking about Star Trek and B5, can we please
at least update the subject line so we know what is being discussed,
otherwise we can just use one subject for every topic.

Russell Teeter

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Craig J. Ries [mailto:cries@yifan.net]
> Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2001 11:45 PM
> To: FEISTFANS-L
> Subject: Re: Forgotten Realms
> 
> 
> Diamond Joe wrote:
> > 
> > There IS no big secret about how the Klingons look. Plain 
> and simple, the
> > Klingons with the forehead ridges are how RODDENBERRY 
> wanted Klingons to
> > look. Had he had the budget on TOS, that IS how they would 
> have looked.
> 
> I've heard this before.
> 
> > I don't see it as being a bad thing that when they made 
> Enterprise, they
> > kept things to how Roddenberry wanted it to look, rather 
> than making it look
> > like it was done with a low 60's budget.
> 
> Oh, I don't disagree. Far from it in fact, I'm glad they made them
> consistent with the movies & newer shows.
> 
> However, I think it was utterly ridiculous for them to have Worf make
> that comment in the DS9 episode "Trials & Tribbleations" that Klingons
> "don't like to talk about it"... that makes it a problem, imo, rather
> than just plain ignoring how they look.
> Hell, if they wanted to make things more consistent, they 
> could've went
> and altered the Klingons in that episode to look like the 
> Klingons with
> the better makeup!
> 
> Craig J. Ries
> 
> 

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Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 08:32:08 -0700
Subject: Re: Forgotten Realms
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Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 08:32:08 -0700
Subject: Re: Forgotten Realms
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Thursday, October 4, 2001, at 11:45 PM, Craig J. Ries wrote:

> Diamond Joe wrote:
>>
>> There IS no big secret about how the Klingons look. Plain and simple, 
>> the
>> Klingons with the forehead ridges are how RODDENBERRY wanted Klingons 
>> to
>> look. Had he had the budget on TOS, that IS how they would have looked.
>
> I've heard this before.
>
>> I don't see it as being a bad thing that when they made Enterprise, 
>> they
>> kept things to how Roddenberry wanted it to look, rather than making 
>> it look
>> like it was done with a low 60's budget.
>
> Oh, I don't disagree. Far from it in fact, I'm glad they made them
> consistent with the movies & newer shows.
>
> However, I think it was utterly ridiculous for them to have Worf make
> that comment in the DS9 episode "Trials & Tribbleations" that Klingons
> "don't like to talk about it"... that makes it a problem, imo, rather
> than just plain ignoring how they look.

That was an "in-joke" because of all the fan generated nonsense 
explaining how there were two races of Klingons.  That got taken to the 
point of absurdity when two novels, one by Mike Ford and one by Dian 
Duane both told different stories about how the looks changed.

As far as Paramount is concerned, the only continuity that counts is the 
TV and films.  Cartoons don't count, comic books don't count, novels 
don't count.

> Hell, if they wanted to make things more consistent, they could've went
> and altered the Klingons in that episode to look like the Klingons with
> the better makeup!
>

That much CGI would have been too expensive for the show's budget.  It 
was considered funnier to make the one off comment, "We don't tak about 
that," which is "we didn't have a budget for makup back in the '60's."

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 08:34:32 -0700
Subject: Re: Forgotten Realms
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Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 08:34:32 -0700
Subject: Re: Forgotten Realms
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
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On Thursday, October 4, 2001, at 11:48 PM, Andrew Scott wrote:

> if you've ever seen the episode 'trials and tribblations' where the DS9 
> crew
> went back in time to the original 'the trouble with tribbles' episode 
> they
> flat out admitted that klingons had flat foreheads for a while. Warf's 
> only
> explanation was, "we dont talk about it with outsiders."
>
See my other answer.  It was an "in joke."  The answer always was "we 
didn't have a makeup budget back then."

If you remember your DS9, they brought back three Klingon characters 
from the original season, Klang, Kronos, and forgot the other's name, to 
hunt down the albino Klingon with Dax.  They used the three original 
actors, John Colicos, Michael Ansara, and William Campbell, and all of 
them hand ridges and fangs the 2nd time around.

It's always been "we didn't have the makeup budget" as the answer.

Best,R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 10:24:20 -0700 (PDT)
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From: Terry Corbett <macros102@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: future Riftwar books
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 10:24:20 -0700 (PDT)
From: Terry Corbett <macros102@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: future Riftwar books
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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I don't think anyone answered this question yet and
I'm wondering myself.  Will the future Riftwar Legacy
novels (Krondor: The Crawler and Krondor: The Dark
Mage) have an American publisher?  Also, how goes the
situation with Honored Enemy?

Terry Corbett

--- "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net> wrote:
> It is known that there is currently no US publisher
> for Honoured Enemy
> (and presumably future titles of that series).
> 
> What about future Riftwar Legacy novels? I've just
> started Tear of the
> Gods and I can't wait for the other books planned
> for this series.
> 
> Craig J. Ries
> 


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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 10:37:28 -0700
Subject: Re: future Riftwar books
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
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On Friday, October 5, 2001, at 10:24 AM, Terry Corbett wrote:

> I don't think anyone answered this question yet and
> I'm wondering myself.  Will the future Riftwar Legacy
> novels (Krondor: The Crawler and Krondor: The Dark
> Mage) have an American publisher?

Those books are not contracted for, are not written, and won't be for 
some time to come.


>  Also, how goes the
> situation with Honored Enemy?

Nothing has changed.

Best,R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Subject: HE orders?
Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 14:22:36 -0400
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From: "Rich Ehrlichman" <richse@eden.rutgers.edu>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: HE orders?
Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 14:22:36 -0400
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I'm fairly new to this list but I decided it was time to send in a question
that has been on my mine, I'm sorry if someone has already asked it. Ive
read every book except the last of the Empire trilogy which im about to
start on and since HE is not available from the US, I have been planning on
ordering a copy from amazon.co.uk. But getting to my question.. because it
is not available and a lot of people from the US are ordering out of the UK
are the sales in the UK a lot higher than normal?  Is the UK seeing a
sizable gain from the US orders, I tend to think they would with the
popularity of the books?  Well hopefully now that I've broken to read/write
barrier here I'll continue to contribute.

Thanks,
Rich



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From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Forgotten Realms
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Raymond Feist wrote:
> 
> If you remember your DS9, they brought back three Klingon characters
> from the original season, Klang, Kronos, and forgot the other's name, to
> hunt down the albino Klingon with Dax.

Kang, Koloth, Kor. :)

> It's always been "we didn't have the makeup budget" as the answer.

Understandable, but the "in-joke" I don't think was very appreciated.

Craig J. Ries



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From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
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Subject: Re: future Riftwar books
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Raymond Feist wrote:
> 
> Those books are not contracted for, are not written, and won't be for
> some time to come.

Ahh. Damn :)

Hmm. So is the next planned book then Talon of the Silver Hawk?

> >  Also, how goes the situation with Honored Enemy?
> 
> Nothing has changed.

*whines quietly*

Craig J. Ries



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Subject: Was Forgotten Realms now Trek
Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 23:06:22 +0100
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From: "donald.c" <donald.c@ntlworld.com>
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Subject: Was Forgotten Realms now Trek
Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 23:06:22 +0100
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> However, I think it was utterly ridiculous for them to have Worf make
> that comment in the DS9 episode "Trials & Tribbleations" that Klingons
> "don't like to talk about it"... that makes it a problem, imo, rather
> than just plain ignoring how they look.
> Hell, if they wanted to make things more consistent, they could've went
> and altered the Klingons in that episode to look like the Klingons with
> the better makeup!
>
> Craig J. Ries
>
Changing the Klingons from the original show? Seems to
me it was hard enough inserting Sisko and crew into the
original footage without changing the Klingon's ridges.
Apart from that, the scene you are talking about was
imo really funny,but then I'm a Trekker for my sins as
well as a..dare I say it a Feisty..lol....
As far as ridges or no ridges goes, I like the mystery
rather than Roddenberry's explanation. And as he
himself always said.."if its on the screen than its
canon".

                                      Don.



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Subject: RE: Forgotten Realms
Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2001 01:49:36 -0500
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it was only unappreciated by those who failed to recognise it, IMHO. I knew
what it was referring to it. I found it funny. As i found funny the
explanation for why we hadn't seen a Tribble on any of the new series.
Really, people should just stop trying to explain it so much.

For those who like such things, i suggest the 'Nitpicker's Guide' to DS9,
TOS, NG, Movies, and most likely there's a Voyager one out too. They are by
Phil Farrand and point out all the little errors that people who don't study
the episodes frame by frame wouldn't catch.

Joseph A. Smith

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Craig J. Ries
> Sent: October 5, 2001 2:32 PM
> To: FEISTFANS-L
> Subject: Re: Forgotten Realms
>
>
> Raymond Feist wrote:
> >
> > If you remember your DS9, they brought back three Klingon characters
> > from the original season, Klang, Kronos, and forgot the other's name, to
> > hunt down the albino Klingon with Dax.
>
> Kang, Koloth, Kor. :)
>
> > It's always been "we didn't have the makeup budget" as the answer.
>
> Understandable, but the "in-joke" I don't think was very appreciated.
>
> Craig J. Ries
>



_________________________________________________________
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Subject: RE: Trek, i suppose.
Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2001 01:42:20 -0500
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To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Trek, i suppose.
Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2001 01:42:20 -0500
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Roddenberry's PERSONAL answer as asked on many a press junket for the Motion
Picture actually. So no flames about Bragga or Berman in here and how they
have "warped Gene's vision" ;) I think they've done just fine with it. Yes,
Voyager wasn't the best series on television, and DS9 had a slow start,  but
at the time the original series wasn't exactly a top ratings getter either.

Joseph A. Smith

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Raymond Feist
> Sent: October 5, 2001 10:35 AM
> To: FEISTFANS-L
> Subject: Re: Forgotten Realms
>
>
>
> On Thursday, October 4, 2001, at 11:48 PM, Andrew Scott wrote:
>
> > if you've ever seen the episode 'trials and tribblations' where the DS9
> > crew
> > went back in time to the original 'the trouble with tribbles' episode
> > they
> > flat out admitted that klingons had flat foreheads for a while. Warf's
> > only
> > explanation was, "we dont talk about it with outsiders."
> >
> See my other answer.  It was an "in joke."  The answer always was "we
> didn't have a makeup budget back then."
>
> If you remember your DS9, they brought back three Klingon characters
> from the original season, Klang, Kronos, and forgot the other's name, to
> hunt down the albino Klingon with Dax.  They used the three original
> actors, John Colicos, Michael Ansara, and William Campbell, and all of
> them hand ridges and fangs the 2nd time around.
>
> It's always been "we didn't have the makeup budget" as the answer.
>
> Best,R.E.F.
> ----
>
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
> stupidity.
>



_________________________________________________________
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Seen the episode. I thought that was actually quite amusing. So it leaves a
'gap in continuity' So??? Everything has to mesh perfectly? The fact is that
they didn't expand on it because of the fact that it's just a one hour tv
show. It wasn't necessary to the plot for them to go into it. It was a
special episode commemorating the 30th anniversary of Star Trek.

Do you aslo question what happened to the tons of tribbles the station was
loaded with at the end of the episode? Should they have written Tribbles
into every episode after that?

The fact is that TV is limited. There's only so much that you can say on TV.
That's why even books that are based on a movie or TV show are always more
detailed. They have more space to go into it.

I'm sure if you went searching on the net, you'd find plenty of fans who
would explain why Klingons of that Era had flat heads.

Before the 'Tribble' episode came out, they had already had Klingons from
the original series on DS9 with bumpy heads too.

Basically it boils down to this. The show is Science Fiction. Keyword being
'Fiction'. You find contradictions in HISTORY books written by different
authors, why should a peice of Fiction be any different?

Joseph A. Smith

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Andrew Scott
> Sent: October 5, 2001 1:49 AM
> To: FEISTFANS-L
> Subject: Re: Forgotten Realms
>
>
> if you've ever seen the episode 'trials and tribblations' where
> the DS9 crew
> went back in time to the original 'the trouble with tribbles' episode they
> flat out admitted that klingons had flat foreheads for a while.
> Warf's only
> explanation was, "we dont talk about it with outsiders."
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Diamond Joe" <diamondjoesmith@yahoo.com>
> To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2001 11:15 PM
> Subject: RE: Forgotten Realms
>
>
> > There IS no big secret about how the Klingons look. Plain and
> simple, the
> > Klingons with the forehead ridges are how RODDENBERRY wanted Klingons to
> > look. Had he had the budget on TOS, that IS how they would have looked.
> >
> > I don't see it as being a bad thing that when they made Enterprise, they
> > kept things to how Roddenberry wanted it to look, rather than making it
> look
> > like it was done with a low 60's budget.
> >
> > Joseph A. Smith
> >
> >
> > > Jason Mulligan wrote:
> > > >
> > > > You would think that in deliberately making a prequel series
> > > they would make some
> > > > effort on the continuity front. Then again it gives Paramount
> > > the chance to bring out
> > > > books detailing the retconned timeline.
> > >
> > > Michael Jan Friedman, iirc, already wrote one of the My
> Brother's Keeper
> > > books with an explanation of the discrepency between TOS and
> > > movie/beyond Klingons.
> > > I've heard it was a very good explanation, but now it's shot to hell
> > > too.
> > >
> > > Oftimes I've found that the books do things that the tv show and/or
> > > movies can only begin to imagine. Because of this, there's
> ALOT of stuff
> > > in the books that I wish the shows would take into account.
> > >
> > > I mean, if it takes books like the My Brother's Keeper
> (Klingon problem)
> > > and Imzadi II (the unexplained end to the relationship
> between Worf and
> > > Troi) to rationalize all the stupid crap that continually is
> ignored by
> > > the writing staff, then they better start respecting it, imo.
> > >
> > > Craig J. Ries
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
> >
> >
>



_________________________________________________________
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From: Terry Corbett <macros102@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: future Riftwar books
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 17:15:02 -0700 (PDT)
From: Terry Corbett <macros102@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: future Riftwar books
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Oh, well.  I still have many, many books to read in my
personal library (winning $100 at sprite.com is not
necessarily a good thing when barnsandnoble.com is one
of the sites that takes Rocketcash :)), so it'll be
quite some time before I run out of stuff to read...if
I ever do.  However, if I DO run out of books before
another one of Ray's books comes out in America, I'm
not going to be happy. :)  Which reminds me, does
anyone know the conversion between dollars and pounds
in case I resort to ordering Honored Enemy from the
UK?

Terry Corbett

--- "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net> wrote:
> Raymond Feist wrote:
> > 
> > Those books are not contracted for, are not
> written, and won't be for
> > some time to come.
> 
> Ahh. Damn :)
> 
> Hmm. So is the next planned book then Talon of the
> Silver Hawk?
> 
> > >  Also, how goes the situation with Honored
> Enemy?
> > 
> > Nothing has changed.
> 
> *whines quietly*
> 
> Craig J. Ries
> 


__________________________________________________
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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Paul Arzooman <soundcage@erols.com>
Subject: Re: Forgotten Realms
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Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2001 23:11:39 -0400
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Paul Arzooman <soundcage@erols.com>
Subject: Re: Forgotten Realms
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

At 01:32 PM 10/5/01 -0600, you wrote:

>Understandable, but the "in-joke" I don't think was very appreciated.
>
>Craig J. Ries

Not appreciated by whom?  I don't think there's anything wrong with having 
an episode OUTSIDE of the continuity or "logic" of a show.  They did this 
to great effect in both "Hercules" and "Xena".  Sometimes it's ok to have 
fun with an episode without having to worry that every word is turned into 
canon fodder.



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From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re: Was Forgotten Realms now Trek
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I have not read all the threads in this topic so I don't know if someone 
else mentioned this already but from what I understand, the explanation for 
the reason the Klingons changed from ther original series to the new was 
because the Klingons they were using on the front lines with the Federation 
were humanized for diplomatic reasons. The empire either bred or altered 
Klingons that would look more human looking in order to gain some sort of 
advantage from the Humanocentric Federation.

I don't know if this is law or just the ramblings of an aquaintance of mine, 
but this is what I was told.

Adieu

Jimmy

Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary 
Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
   -- Benjamin Franklin




>From: "donald.c" <donald.c@ntlworld.com>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
>Subject: Was Forgotten Realms now Trek
>Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 23:06:22 +0100
>
>
>
> > However, I think it was utterly ridiculous for them
>to have Worf make
> > that comment in the DS9 episode "Trials &
>Tribbleations" that Klingons
> > "don't like to talk about it"... that makes it a
>problem, imo, rather
> > than just plain ignoring how they look.
> > Hell, if they wanted to make things more consistent,
>they could've went
> > and altered the Klingons in that episode to look like
>the Klingons with
> > the better makeup!
> >
> > Craig J. Ries
> >
>Changing the Klingons from the original show? Seems to
>me it was hard enough inserting Sisko and crew into the
>original footage without changing the Klingon's ridges.
>Apart from that, the scene you are talking about was
>imo really funny,but then I'm a Trekker for my sins as
>well as a..dare I say it a Feisty..lol....
>As far as ridges or no ridges goes, I like the mystery
>rather than Roddenberry's explanation. And as he
>himself always said.."if its on the screen than its
>canon".
>
>                                       Don.
>


_________________________________________________________________
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From: Joseph Smith <diamondjoesmith@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Was Forgotten Realms now Trek
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Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2001 18:29:44 -0400 (EDT)
From: Joseph Smith <diamondjoesmith@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Was Forgotten Realms now Trek
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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That's a nice theory, but if it were true, that
wouldn't explain Kang, Kor, and Kolos. All of whom
were in the original series, and the same actors
played them on DS9. They had the ridged forheads on
DS9, smooth heads on original Trek.

The fact is there is no 'Perfect' reason for it. Plain
and simply the ridged foreheaded Klingons are the
'right' Klingons. 

Joseph A. Smith

--- James Silva <kiehtan@hotmail.com> wrote:
> I have not read all the threads in this topic so I
> don't know if someone 
> else mentioned this already but from what I
> understand, the explanation for 
> the reason the Klingons changed from ther original
> series to the new was 
> because the Klingons they were using on the front
> lines with the Federation 
> were humanized for diplomatic reasons. The empire
> either bred or altered 
> Klingons that would look more human looking in order
> to gain some sort of 
> advantage from the Humanocentric Federation.
> 
> I don't know if this is law or just the ramblings of
> an aquaintance of mine, 
> but this is what I was told.
> 
> Adieu
> 
> Jimmy
> 
> Those who would give up essential Liberty, to
> purchase a little temporary 
> Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
>    -- Benjamin Franklin
> 
> 
> 
> 
> >From: "donald.c" <donald.c@ntlworld.com>
> >Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> >To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
> >Subject: Was Forgotten Realms now Trek
> >Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 23:06:22 +0100
> >
> >
> >
> > > However, I think it was utterly ridiculous for
> them
> >to have Worf make
> > > that comment in the DS9 episode "Trials &
> >Tribbleations" that Klingons
> > > "don't like to talk about it"... that makes it a
> >problem, imo, rather
> > > than just plain ignoring how they look.
> > > Hell, if they wanted to make things more
> consistent,
> >they could've went
> > > and altered the Klingons in that episode to look
> like
> >the Klingons with
> > > the better makeup!
> > >
> > > Craig J. Ries
> > >
> >Changing the Klingons from the original show? Seems
> to
> >me it was hard enough inserting Sisko and crew into
> the
> >original footage without changing the Klingon's
> ridges.
> >Apart from that, the scene you are talking about
> was
> >imo really funny,but then I'm a Trekker for my sins
> as
> >well as a..dare I say it a Feisty..lol....
> >As far as ridges or no ridges goes, I like the
> mystery
> >rather than Roddenberry's explanation. And as he
> >himself always said.."if its on the screen than its
> >canon".
> >
> >                                       Don.
> >
> 
> 
>
_________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
> http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
> 


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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sun, 7 Oct 2001 10:26:36 +1000
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Anestis Kozakis <kenosti@labyrinth.net.au>
Subject: Re: future Riftwar books
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

At 17:15 -0700 05/10/2001, Terry Corbett wrote:
>Oh, well.  I still have many, many books to read in my
>personal library (winning $100 at sprite.com is not
>necessarily a good thing when barnsandnoble.com is one
>of the sites that takes Rocketcash :)), so it'll be
>quite some time before I run out of stuff to read...if
>I ever do.  However, if I DO run out of books before
>another one of Ray's books comes out in America, I'm
>not going to be happy. :)  Which reminds me, does
>anyone know the conversion between dollars and pounds
>in case I resort to ordering Honored Enemy from the
>UK?

Try http://www.xe.net

A wonderful currency converter that is updated very regularly.

And you can also download a personal version for use (I assume it 
updates itself over the internet on a regular basis with the latest 
coversion rates).

>Terry Corbett

Anestis.

-- 
kenosti@labyrinth.net.au
"A complete list of this film's associate producers
  is available upon request."
    -- In End Credits for "State and Main"



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To: Diamond Joe <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re[2]: Trek, i suppose.
In-Reply-To: <CKEDKEIMLMHNIIAFIHGPCEGHCDAA.diamondjoesmith@yahoo.com>
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*** EOOH ***
From: Kurgan@LittleBlueRoom.com
Date: Sun, 7 Oct 2001 00:02:08 -0500
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
To: Diamond Joe <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re[2]: Trek, i suppose.
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Hello Joe,

DJ> So no flames about Bragga or Berman in here and how they have "warped Gene's
DJ> vision" ;) I think they've done just fine with it.

    Well, I'll say it. They've destroyed the franchise, and that
    comment has nothing to do with the Klingons' makeup. It has to do
    with them continually writing horrendously bad scripts, compounded
    by cheap makeup jobs on EVERY alien (ooh, a new nose ridge! Must
    be a new species!), and most of all, a total lack of respect or
    actual caring for the universe or its continuity. Berman was top
    of my %$@#-list for the longest time, but Braga recently stuck his
    foot in deep while speaking with reporters about Enterprise
    (Akiraprise) when he came right out and said continuity wasn't
    important and people that cared about it were geeks. Oh yeah, that
    went over well with the Trekkies/Trekkers. You bet. Enterprise is
    a good show on its own merits, but it isn't Star Trek, regardless
    of the titles. And using an Akira class starship, one of the
    newest and most advanced ships in Trek, as the original
    Enterprise...geez.
    

Best regards,

   Kurgan                            mailto:Kurgan@LittleBlueRoom.com



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From: "Diamond Joe" <diamondjoesmith@yahoo.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Re[2]: Trek, i suppose.
Date: Sun, 7 Oct 2001 12:28:41 -0500
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*** EOOH ***
X-Apparently-From: <diamondjoesmith@yahoo.com>
From: "Diamond Joe" <diamondjoesmith@yahoo.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Re[2]: Trek, i suppose.
Date: Sun, 7 Oct 2001 12:28:41 -0500
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I'd say the answer here is simple though. It's called freedom of choice. You
don't like it, don't watch it. There is nobody forcing you to tune into a
Star Trek show.

I really don't get people who complain about how much they don't like
someting, yet continually watch it, day in, and day out.

And that ship is not an Akira class. The styling may be similar, but the
ship itself is Magnitudes smaller, and doesn't look nearly as finished.

How can you say that it's the most advanced ship yet? It's much slower than
anything we've seen, Because it can only do a max of Warp 5. It has PARTICLE
weapons, and no sheilding. Yeah, sounds real advanced to me. I'd love to go
up against a Jem'Hadar ship in that.

Joseph A. Smith

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of
> Kurgan@LittleBlueRoom.com
> Sent: October 7, 2001 12:02 AM
> To: Diamond Joe (FEISTFANS-L)
> Subject: Re[2]: Trek, i suppose.
>
>
> Hello Joe,
>
> DJ> So no flames about Bragga or Berman in here and how they have
> "warped Gene's
> DJ> vision" ;) I think they've done just fine with it.
>
>     Well, I'll say it. They've destroyed the franchise, and that
>     comment has nothing to do with the Klingons' makeup. It has to do
>     with them continually writing horrendously bad scripts, compounded
>     by cheap makeup jobs on EVERY alien (ooh, a new nose ridge! Must
>     be a new species!), and most of all, a total lack of respect or
>     actual caring for the universe or its continuity. Berman was top
>     of my %$@#-list for the longest time, but Braga recently stuck his
>     foot in deep while speaking with reporters about Enterprise
>     (Akiraprise) when he came right out and said continuity wasn't
>     important and people that cared about it were geeks. Oh yeah, that
>     went over well with the Trekkies/Trekkers. You bet. Enterprise is
>     a good show on its own merits, but it isn't Star Trek, regardless
>     of the titles. And using an Akira class starship, one of the
>     newest and most advanced ships in Trek, as the original
>     Enterprise...geez.
>
>
> Best regards,
>
>    Kurgan                            mailto:Kurgan@LittleBlueRoom.com
>



_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sun, 07 Oct 2001 12:14:11 -0600
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Trek, i suppose.
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Diamond Joe wrote:
> 
> I'd say the answer here is simple though. It's called freedom of choice. You
> don't like it, don't watch it. There is nobody forcing you to tune into a
> Star Trek show.

I've put hundreds of hours into watching Star Trek movies, tv shows, and
in reading the books.
I expect something of quality in return. I expect the producers to
RESPECT what has come before, as they have inherited something that was
not theirs to begin with.
They've abused and destroyed that respect.

> I really don't get people who complain about how much they don't like
> someting, yet continually watch it, day in, and day out.

Don't worry, I won't be watching every episode of Enteprise, if I even
bother to watch another episode again.

> And that ship is not an Akira class. The styling may be similar, but the
> ship itself is Magnitudes smaller, and doesn't look nearly as finished.

There shouldn't even BE a starship at all at this point in Trek history.

> How can you say that it's the most advanced ship yet? It's much slower than
> anything we've seen, Because it can only do a max of Warp 5.

Yet it can get to Kronos in 80 hours. Man, the galaxy just got REALLY
big all of a sudden for Kirk's era, didn't it?

Craig J. Ries



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        Diamond Joe <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
From: LAR <lds627@home.com>
Subject: Re[2]: Trek, i suppose.
In-Reply-To: <1596547311.20011007000208@LittleBlueRoom.com>
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 <CKEDKEIMLMHNIIAFIHGPCEGHCDAA.diamondjoesmith@yahoo.com>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sun, 07 Oct 2001 11:24:54 -0700
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L),
        Diamond Joe <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
From: LAR <lds627@home.com>
Subject: Re[2]: Trek, i suppose.
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

At 12:02 AM 10/7/01 -0500, Kurgan@LittleBlueRoom.com wrote:
>  Berman was top
>     of my %$@#-list for the longest time, but Braga recently stuck his
>     foot in deep while speaking with reporters about Enterprise
>     (Akiraprise) when he came right out and said continuity wasn't
>     important and people that cared about it were geeks. Oh yeah, that
>     went over well with the Trekkies/Trekkers. You bet. Enterprise is
>     a good show on its own merits, but it isn't Star Trek, regardless
>     of the titles. And using an Akira class starship, one of the
>     newest and most advanced ships in Trek, as the original
>     Enterprise...geez.
>
>
>Best regards,
>
>    Kurgan                            mailto:Kurgan@LittleBlueRoom.com

OMG, Continuity not important??? <G>. Get a grip, IT'S TV, IT'S NOT REAL!. 
GET A LIFE <G>.

Seriously, continuity is pretty much useless when we are talking about 200 
years difference. History is written by the winners, so any discrepancies 
in continuity can be pretty much ignored.

Larry



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References: <CKEDKEIMLMHNIIAFIHGPCEGHCDAA.diamondjoesmith@yahoo.com>
	 <CKEDKEIMLMHNIIAFIHGPCEGHCDAA.diamondjoesmith@yahoo.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20011007112312.01efdbc0@mail>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sun, 07 Oct 2001 12:55:02 -0600
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Trek, i suppose.
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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LAR wrote:
> 
> OMG, Continuity not important??? <G>. Get a grip, IT'S TV, IT'S NOT REAL!.
> GET A LIFE <G>.

Then you'll be leaving this mailing list and never reading fantasy
novels again?

Alot of the discussions around here involve the little things of
Midkemia and Kelewan. Why bother to discuss them? "IT'S NOT REAL!"

Maybe we should all "GET A LIFE".

Craig J. Ries



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From: "Magnus Arvidsson" <magnus.arvidsson75@telia.com>
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References: <CKEDKEIMLMHNIIAFIHGPCEGHCDAA.diamondjoesmith@yahoo.com> <CKEDKEIMLMHNIIAFIHGPCEGHCDAA.diamondjoesmith@yahoo.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20011007112312.01efdbc0@mail> <3BC0A506.956F2F3F@yifan.net>
Subject: Re: Trek(Shrek?), i suppose. GAH geezh omg
Date: Sun, 7 Oct 2001 21:08:56 +0200
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Magnus Arvidsson" <magnus.arvidsson75@telia.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Trek(Shrek?), i suppose. GAH geezh omg
Date: Sun, 7 Oct 2001 21:08:56 +0200
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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omg, TREK is OFF TOPIC and thus it should be left out
of this forum... As many before me has pointed out: This
list is dedicated to Ray's work, not to Gene Roddenberry
or whoever is behind the new ŽTREK series. Keep discussing
this TREK-business by all means, just not on this list, and NOT
in my mailboxx.

**Magnus climbs down from his soap box**

> LAR wrote:
> >
> > OMG, Continuity not important??? <G>. Get a grip, IT'S TV, IT'S NOT REAL!.
> > GET A LIFE <G>.
>
> Then you'll be leaving this mailing list and never reading fantasy
> novels again?
>
> Alot of the discussions around here involve the little things of
> Midkemia and Kelewan. Why bother to discuss them? "IT'S NOT REAL!"
>
> Maybe we should all "GET A LIFE".
>
> Craig J. Ries
>



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From: "Diamond Joe" <diamondjoesmith@yahoo.com>
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Subject: RE: Trek, i suppose.
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*** EOOH ***
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From: "Diamond Joe" <diamondjoesmith@yahoo.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Trek, i suppose.
Date: Sun, 7 Oct 2001 14:19:12 -0500
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> LAR wrote:
> >
> > OMG, Continuity not important??? <G>. Get a grip, IT'S TV, IT'S
> NOT REAL!.
> > GET A LIFE <G>.
>
> Then you'll be leaving this mailing list and never reading fantasy
> novels again?
>
> Alot of the discussions around here involve the little things of
> Midkemia and Kelewan. Why bother to discuss them? "IT'S NOT REAL!"
>
> Maybe we should all "GET A LIFE".
>
> Craig J. Ries


Couple differences. Star Trek is a Franchise. There are multiple writers for
the different Episodes. It's easier for them to say things that
contradictory stories to be written. They're all writing their own episodes
seperately at the same time. Just because we see them a week apart doesn't
mean that the writer of episode X saw the script to episode X-1 befor
writing his. It's no reason to jump down the producers throats.

Secondly, if Ray makes a mistake, he admits it. He doesn't try to come up
with fantastical reasons why it was said (For isntance) in one book that Roo
was 5'8, and another one where it says he was 5'10. Ray would say. Oh, I
guess it was a mistake. He doesn't need to come up with reasons that Roo
grew 2" in the books.

Finally, Should Ray make a mistake and admit it, i haven't seen anyone here
say that he's ruined his franchise because of it.

Just my opinions.
Joseph A. Smith



_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com



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Subject: Re: Trek, i suppose.
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*** EOOH ***
From: Valheru89@aol.com
Date: Sun, 7 Oct 2001 15:25:39 EDT
Subject: Re: Trek, i suppose.
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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Can we shut the hell up about that dumb ass show people.

        _Chance_

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Subject: Re: Trek(Shrek?), i suppose. GAH geezh omg
References: <CKEDKEIMLMHNIIAFIHGPCEGHCDAA.diamondjoesmith@yahoo.com> <CKEDKEIMLMHNIIAFIHGPCEGHCDAA.diamondjoesmith@yahoo.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20011007112312.01efdbc0@mail> <3BC0A506.956F2F3F@yifan.net> <000d01c14f63$8363d8c0$ad5541d5@telia.com>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sun, 07 Oct 2001 14:07:24 -0600
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Trek(Shrek?), i suppose. GAH geezh omg
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Magnus Arvidsson wrote:
> 
> omg, TREK is OFF TOPIC and thus it should be left out
> of this forum... As many before me has pointed out: This
> list is dedicated to Ray's work, not to Gene Roddenberry
> or whoever is behind the new ŽTREK series. Keep discussing
> this TREK-business by all means, just not on this list, and NOT
> in my mailboxx.

And I thank you for ripping me for this when it's been going on for
weeks.

Craig J. Ries



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From: "Magnus Arvidsson" <magnus.arvidsson75@telia.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
References: <CKEDKEIMLMHNIIAFIHGPCEGHCDAA.diamondjoesmith@yahoo.com> <CKEDKEIMLMHNIIAFIHGPCEGHCDAA.diamondjoesmith@yahoo.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20011007112312.01efdbc0@mail> <3BC0A506.956F2F3F@yifan.net> <000d01c14f63$8363d8c0$ad5541d5@telia.com> <3BC0B5FC.23A539F4@yifan.net>
Subject: Re: Trek(Shrek?), i suppose. GAH geezh omg
Date: Sun, 7 Oct 2001 22:45:05 +0200
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Magnus Arvidsson" <magnus.arvidsson75@telia.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Trek(Shrek?), i suppose. GAH geezh omg
Date: Sun, 7 Oct 2001 22:45:05 +0200
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

"The Rip" was NOT aimed at someone in particular
but rather to all. I'm sorry if my post was unclear in
that respect-

Magnus


> Magnus Arvidsson wrote:
> >
> > omg, TREK is OFF TOPIC and thus it should be left out
> > of this forum... As many before me has pointed out: This
> > list is dedicated to Ray's work, not to Gene Roddenberry
> > or whoever is behind the new ŽTREK series. Keep discussing
> > this TREK-business by all means, just not on this list, and NOT
> > in my mailboxx.
>
> And I thank you for ripping me for this when it's been going on for
> weeks.
>
> Craig J. Ries
>



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Subject: RE: Trek(Shrek?), i suppose. GAH geezh omg
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Subject: RE: Trek(Shrek?), i suppose. GAH geezh omg
Date: Sun, 7 Oct 2001 13:46:07 -0700
Thread-Topic: Trek(Shrek?), i suppose. GAH geezh omg
Thread-Index: AcFPb15G8eBuArtRT0mLo/jxKb8RCAAAK02Q
From: "Russell Teeter" <rteeter@sitelite.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Craig,

You know that LAR was not ripping you, only that your reply was the one
of many that he happened to hit the reply button on :-)

Personally I think that  the Star Trek flames have go on long enough.
Someone like it, someone doesn't they argue back and forth, and the
whole list has to listen to it.  Shouldn't be fair for the other 100
members on the list.  Again this is not pointed to anyone directly at
all.

Now back to our regularly schedule.

Russell Teeter

PS,  My heart goes out to all the military personal and families from
all over the world dealing with the "alleged" terrorism.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Craig J. Ries [mailto:cries@yifan.net]
> Sent: Sunday, October 07, 2001 1:07 PM
> To: FEISTFANS-L
> Subject: Re: Trek(Shrek?), i suppose. GAH geezh omg
> 
> 
> Magnus Arvidsson wrote:
> > 
> > omg, TREK is OFF TOPIC and thus it should be left out
> > of this forum... As many before me has pointed out: This
> > list is dedicated to Ray's work, not to Gene Roddenberry
> > or whoever is behind the new ŽTREK series. Keep discussing
> > this TREK-business by all means, just not on this list, and NOT
> > in my mailboxx.
> 
> And I thank you for ripping me for this when it's been going on for
> weeks.
> 
> Craig J. Ries
> 
> 

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From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Roo [was:RE: Trek, i suppose]
In-Reply-To: <CKEDKEIMLMHNIIAFIHGPGEGMCDAA.diamondjoesmith@yahoo.com>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2001 07:56:30 +1000 (GMT+1000)
From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Roo [was:RE: Trek, i suppose]
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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> Secondly, if Ray makes a mistake, he admits it. He doesn't try to come up
> with fantastical reasons why it was said (For isntance) in one book that Roo
> was 5'8, and another one where it says he was 5'10. Ray would say. Oh, I
> guess it was a mistake. He doesn't need to come up with reasons that Roo
>
> Finally, Should Ray make a mistake and admit it, i haven't seen anyone here
> say that he's ruined his franchise because of it.
> Just my opinions.
> Joseph A. Smith

heh. It's possible for Roo to grow two inches in between books. He was
only around 15 or 16 in SoaDQ.....through puberty he could have had a late
growth spurt.

Thanks
Darragh
-=-=
www.iamtheporkfireman.com
[Email]: s356179@student.uq.edu.au [ICQ]: 114283262



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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: LAR <lds627@home.com>
Subject: Re: Trek, i suppose.
In-Reply-To: <3BC0A506.956F2F3F@yifan.net>
References: <CKEDKEIMLMHNIIAFIHGPCEGHCDAA.diamondjoesmith@yahoo.com>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sun, 07 Oct 2001 15:26:28 -0700
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: LAR <lds627@home.com>
Subject: Re: Trek, i suppose.
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

At 12:55 PM 10/7/01 -0600, you wrote:
>LAR wrote:
> >
> > OMG, Continuity not important??? <G>. Get a grip, IT'S TV, IT'S NOT REAL!.
> > GET A LIFE <G>.
>
>Then you'll be leaving this mailing list and never reading fantasy
>novels again?
>
>Alot of the discussions around here involve the little things of
>Midkemia and Kelewan. Why bother to discuss them? "IT'S NOT REAL!"
>
>Maybe we should all "GET A LIFE".
>
>Craig J. Ries


A) I placed a grin at the end to show it was meant to be light hearted

b) I don't spend 1000s of hours on midkemia

c) This list is about RAY's works, NOT start trek

d) Apparently you are afraid of reality, otherwise you would take SOME time 
for it.

Have a good life



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Subject: RE: OT: Programming Languages
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*** EOOH ***
From: Brad_A_Krahe@allegiance.com.au
X-Lotus-FromDomain: HCS
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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So I guess you didn't miss me then Richard, sorry I didn't keep playing our
little game as I went on annual leave. Give me another week and I'll come
up with something funny, I promise!

Regards,

Brad Krahe
SAP Business & Support Consultant
Allegiance Systems



>
>Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com> on 28/09/2001
>20:47:10
>
>Please respond to FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>
>To:   FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
>cc:    (bcc: Brad A Krahe/HCS)
>Subject:  RE: OT: Programming Languages
>
>
>
>
>At 10:57 AM 9/28/01 +0100, Stout, JonathanX wrote:
>>Where'd you get your rules of comedy Dick?
>>Alls fair in love and laughs
>
>That would be California State University, Fresno,
>SPCH116 (Communications and Humor).  Otherwise
>known as 'Stand-Up Comedy'.  The final was three
>to five minutes in front of a boisterous crowd
>at the Bucket, the on-campus pub.  Hardest final
>I ever had.
>
>The problem with 'Dick' is the same as with pointing
>out that my handle uses the same three letters as
>the Latin inscription, Requiscat In Pace (Rest In
>Peace).  It's been done to death...erm ah aha, sorry.
>
>Anyway, come up with something /clever/, and I'll be
>the first to applaud.  Otherwise, you are just a
>heckler.
>
>rip
>

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To: Diamond Joe <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re[4]: Trek, i suppose.
In-Reply-To: <CKEDKEIMLMHNIIAFIHGPEEGLCDAA.diamondjoesmith@yahoo.com>
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*** EOOH ***
From: Kurgan@LittleBlueRoom.com
Date: Sun, 7 Oct 2001 19:00:33 -0500
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
To: Diamond Joe <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re[4]: Trek, i suppose.
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Hello Joe,

DJ> I'd say the answer here is simple though. It's called freedom of choice. You
DJ> don't like it, don't watch it. There is nobody forcing you to tune into a
DJ> Star Trek show.
DJ> I really don't get people who complain about how much they don't like
DJ> someting, yet continually watch it, day in, and day out.

Oh, for pete's sake, doesn't anyone understand plain English anymore?
At what point did I say someone was holding a gun to my head, or for
that matter ANYTHING that has anything to do with your comment above?
Yeah, how dare a Star Trek fan show any disappointment when an
installment of it turns out bad. I also happen to be speaking from the
viewpoint of having been a friend of Gene's and being pissed at the
way the idiots that "inherited" it from him have handled things. No,
it's not life threatening and it's not the end of the world. But it IS
a damned shame to see a property that is considered a national
treasure and be run into the ground by people that don't really care
about it and only care about the dollars involved. Gene even did that
himself once, halfway through the original show, and he ended up
regretting his attitude later.

DJ> And that ship is not an Akira class. The styling may be similar, but the
DJ> ship itself is Magnitudes smaller, and doesn't look nearly as finished.

B&B were given designs and drawings of the new ship (you can find them
on the net) and they didn't like them, saying they weren't advanced
enough to make the viewers happy. They specifically wanted something
that would look more advanced than anything we've seen before. When
everyone told them they were nuts, that such a thing wouldn't have
been possible during that time period, and that the fans were not so
stupid or shallow as to require such a thing they ignored the advice
and did it anyway. They decided on the Akira class ship and made a few
alterations that, in their mind, made it look 'older'. It didn't work.

DJ> How can you say that it's the most advanced ship yet? It's much slower than
DJ> anything we've seen, Because it can only do a max of Warp 5. It has PARTICLE
DJ> weapons, and no sheilding. Yeah, sounds real advanced to me. I'd love to go
DJ> up against a Jem'Hadar ship in that.

I was referring to the actual Akira class ship, not the end result
that is being used for Enterprise.

Best regards,

  Kurgan                           mailto:Kurgan@LittleBlueRoom.com



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Subject: Re[2]: Trek, i suppose.
In-Reply-To: <3BC0A506.956F2F3F@yifan.net>
References: <CKEDKEIMLMHNIIAFIHGPCEGHCDAA.diamondjoesmith@yahoo.com>
 <CKEDKEIMLMHNIIAFIHGPCEGHCDAA.diamondjoesmith@yahoo.com>
 <5.1.0.14.0.20011007112312.01efdbc0@mail> <3BC0A506.956F2F3F@yifan.net>
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*** EOOH ***
From: Kurgan@LittleBlueRoom.com
Date: Sun, 7 Oct 2001 19:02:26 -0500
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
To: "Craig J. Ries" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re[2]: Trek, i suppose.
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Hello Craig,

CJR> LAR wrote:
>> OMG, Continuity not important??? <G>. Get a grip, IT'S TV, IT'S NOT REAL!.
>> GET A LIFE <G>.

CJR> Then you'll be leaving this mailing list and never reading fantasy
CJR> novels again?

   LOL!!!


Best regards,

   Kurgan                            mailto:Kurgan@LittleBlueRoom.com



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Subject: Re[2]: Trek, i suppose.
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*** EOOH ***
From: Kurgan@LittleBlueRoom.com
Date: Sun, 7 Oct 2001 19:15:26 -0500
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
To: Diamond Joe <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re[2]: Trek, i suppose.
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Hello Joe,

DJ> Finally, Should Ray make a mistake and admit it, i haven't seen anyone here
DJ> say that he's ruined his franchise because of it.

   Ok, I'll make one last comment on the topic and then I'll put a
   cork in it since people are getting upset. The continuity problems
   in Trek that have upset millions of fans are not the little things
   you mention. Sure, little errors pop up all the time in Trek, and
   honestly very few Trekkies really care, and the few that do WE
   think are taking it too far. I just loved Shatner's Get A Life
   sketch. Hilarious. But what bothers us are the gigantic problems.
   Massive historical changes that effectively invalidate everything
   else. I mean, let's say your favorite tv show is about old WWII
   veterans. Some drama set after the war, etc. Ok, years later
   someone comes along and creates a spinoff of your favorite show and
   sets it during the period of the war before the original series.
   Ok, now lets say you tune in, all excited, and you notice that, in
   this show, there is no war! no 6 million Jews getting killed, no
   Hitler, etc. And, to top it all off, the new cast is all carrying
   M-16s. You see my point. It's stupid and disappointing. Big stuff,
   that would bother anyone if the medium were something important to
   them. And as for Enterprise, I actually like it. I have to mentally
   remove the Trek label, because it just isn't Trek. Not at all. But
   on its own merits it isn't too bad. In fact, I wish they'd just
   called it something else and made no attempt to tie it in with the
   Trek universe.

   To sum up: Shakespeare doesn't eat Spam! lol


Best regards,

   Kurgan                            mailto:Kurgan@LittleBlueRoom.com



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	 <CKEDKEIMLMHNIIAFIHGPCEGHCDAA.diamondjoesmith@yahoo.com>
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Date: Sun, 07 Oct 2001 20:21:40 -0600
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Trek, i suppose.
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LAR wrote:
> 
> b) I don't spend 1000s of hours on midkemia

And if there were thousands of hours worth of Midkemia or you to
read/watch/review, would you?

I would, because Ray's work is a wonderful thing, and I enjoy every
minute I spend reading his books. I wish he had more books out already
that I could read as well.
I feel the same about Star Trek. Is there anything wrong with that? No.

But if somebody else came along and carried on in Ray's name, to
continue what he started, I would expect them to give a great measure of
respect to Ray's works. This is not happening with Enterprise.
 
> c) This list is about RAY's works, NOT start trek

I'm not the one that started this mess.

> d) Apparently you are afraid of reality, otherwise you would take SOME time
> for it.

Ahh, yes, I have a job interview tomorrow. Guess that's not too-well
grounded in reality. Maybe I'll sleep in instead.

Craig J. Ries



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Subject: Re: New UK paperback Magician
Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2001 13:21:22 +0800
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From: "Ben Lloyd" <benlloyd@wn.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: New UK paperback Magician
Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2001 13:21:22 +0800
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Hi Ray,

Is this new paperback going to permanently take over from the last one, or a
special edition?

-----------
Ben Lloyd

----- Original Message -----
From: "Raymond Feist" <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2001 6:42 AM
Subject: Re: New UK paperback Magician


>
> On Wednesday, October 3, 2001, at 11:17 AM, John wrote:
>
> >
> > The following links to a re release of Magician in paperback
> >
> > http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0007123280/qid=1002132258/sr=1-25/ref=sr_sp_re/026-1144265-7539622
> >
> > Interesting cover, with the words Voyager Classics
> >
> > Ray now your words are considered Classic, does it make you feel a bit
> > older :)
> >
> > If you search you will also find the Deluxe 2002 HB listed
> >
> > -- John
> >
> > john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
> > http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.
> >
> > Raymond E Feist Ring
> > http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm
> >
> >
> >
>
> Harper sent me the flyer for that series a while back.  Forgot about it.
>
> Nice to be thought of in their "this is our best" line.
>
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
>
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
> stupidity.
>



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From: "James Barker" <heechee@softhome.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Trek, i suppose.
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----- Original Message -----
From: Valheru89@aol.com
To: FEISTFANS-L
Sent: Monday, October 08, 2001 5:25 AM
Subject: Re: Trek, i suppose.

> Can we shut the hell up about that dumb ass show people.

Amen brother! To the Trekkies who have carried these discussions on _ad
nauseum_: on behalf of all the people whose mailboxes you have polluted over
the last couple of days with crap that is not even tangentially related to
Midkemia or Ray's work, stop! We've had enough!

Cheers,
James

P.S. My address, for those wishing to flame, is heechee@softhome.net -- and
for those die-hard Trekkies who consider an insult to Trek worthy of the
death penalty, I'd just like to say one thing: get a life. Thank you.



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From: "Diamond Joe" <diamondjoesmith@yahoo.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Trek, i suppose.
Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2001 02:04:36 -0500
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Well, i'm sorry if i just watch the tv shows, and don't own the technical
manuals, the 'official histories' and such.

Personally, i'd much rather watch Enterprise than Voyager.

I also don't see where you get off thinking the the producers of the show
OWE you. Because they make 1 hour weekly shows that you aren't paying them
for? And don't give me the prices for cable in your area, because that's not
getting paid to Paramount.

If everyone seemed to think it was as bad as you do, then it wouldn't get
watched and it would get taken off of the air. Basic ratings. A show does
good, it stays on. A show does bad, it gets taken off. If Enterprise truly
is a bad show (which most of the people i've talked to don't think it is)
then it will get taken off because nobody watches. You don't like it, cast
your vote for it to be taken off by not watching, don't go and say that they
OWE you for being a fan, because it doesn't work that way.

Joseph A. Smith

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Craig J. Ries
> Sent: October 7, 2001 1:14 PM
> To: FEISTFANS-L
> Subject: Re: Trek, i suppose.
>
>
> Diamond Joe wrote:
> >
> > I'd say the answer here is simple though. It's called freedom
> of choice. You
> > don't like it, don't watch it. There is nobody forcing you to
> tune into a
> > Star Trek show.
>
> I've put hundreds of hours into watching Star Trek movies, tv shows, and
> in reading the books.
> I expect something of quality in return. I expect the producers to
> RESPECT what has come before, as they have inherited something that was
> not theirs to begin with.
> They've abused and destroyed that respect.
>
> > I really don't get people who complain about how much they don't like
> > someting, yet continually watch it, day in, and day out.
>
> Don't worry, I won't be watching every episode of Enteprise, if I even
> bother to watch another episode again.
>
> > And that ship is not an Akira class. The styling may be similar, but the
> > ship itself is Magnitudes smaller, and doesn't look nearly as finished.
>
> There shouldn't even BE a starship at all at this point in Trek history.
>
> > How can you say that it's the most advanced ship yet? It's much
> slower than
> > anything we've seen, Because it can only do a max of Warp 5.
>
> Yet it can get to Kronos in 80 hours. Man, the galaxy just got REALLY
> big all of a sudden for Kirk's era, didn't it?
>
> Craig J. Ries
>



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To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Roo [was:RE: Trek, i suppose]
Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2001 02:04:37 -0500
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From: "Diamond Joe" <diamondjoesmith@yahoo.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Roo [was:RE: Trek, i suppose]
Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2001 02:04:37 -0500
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Wiseguy...;)

Joseph A. Smith
> heh. It's possible for Roo to grow two inches in between books. He was
> only around 15 or 16 in SoaDQ.....through puberty he could have had a late
> growth spurt.
>
> Thanks
> Darragh
> -=-=
> www.iamtheporkfireman.com
> [Email]: s356179@student.uq.edu.au [ICQ]: 114283262
>



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Subject: RE: Re[4]: Trek, i suppose.
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From: "Diamond Joe" <diamondjoesmith@yahoo.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Re[4]: Trek, i suppose.
Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2001 02:24:45 -0500
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> Oh, for pete's sake, doesn't anyone understand plain English anymore?
> At what point did I say someone was holding a gun to my head, or for
> that matter ANYTHING that has anything to do with your comment above?
> Yeah, how dare a Star Trek fan show any disappointment when an
> installment of it turns out bad. I also happen to be speaking from the
> viewpoint of having been a friend of Gene's and being pissed at the
> way the idiots that "inherited" it from him have handled things. No,
> it's not life threatening and it's not the end of the world. But it IS
> a damned shame to see a property that is considered a national
> treasure and be run into the ground by people that don't really care
> about it and only care about the dollars involved. Gene even did that
> himself once, halfway through the original show, and he ended up
> regretting his attitude later.

Ruined it in your opinion you mean. Friend of Gene's or not, you can't say
what he would or would not think of these series'. Obviously there are some
people who have opposing opinions to yours. YOU aren't going to change their
mind. I'm not trying to change anyone's mind, simply state my opinion. Last
time i checked i was free to have my own opinions, and not be considered
less of a fan of anything because of them. You may have liked some of Ray's
books better than I did. Personally, I thought that Rise of A Merchant
Prince was better than Shards of a Broken Crown. Would that make me less of
a fan than someone who thought otherwise?


> B&B were given designs and drawings of the new ship (you can find them
> on the net) and they didn't like them, saying they weren't advanced
> enough to make the viewers happy. They specifically wanted something
> that would look more advanced than anything we've seen before. When
> everyone told them they were nuts, that such a thing wouldn't have
> been possible during that time period, and that the fans were not so
> stupid or shallow as to require such a thing they ignored the advice
> and did it anyway. They decided on the Akira class ship and made a few
> alterations that, in their mind, made it look 'older'. It didn't work.

Again, didn't work in YOUR opinion. Personally, I think the ship looks good.
It's a lot smaller than anything we've seen before on the series, and
doesn't have anything near the technology.

> I was referring to the actual Akira class ship, not the end result
> that is being used for Enterprise.

Except that we've established that it ISN'T an Akira ship. Simply the same
basic hull design. The Enterprise and Enterprise-C have the same basic
configurations, yet one is a constitution class, and the other is an
ambassador class.

And the last point I'm going to make in regards to wether or not everything
shown on the original series should be kept. According to the Original
series, we should have had World War III and the Eugenics wars by now. You
see, it's fictional, and REAL history has already changed your almighty
continuity.

Joseph A. Smith

> Best regards,
>
>   Kurgan                           mailto:Kurgan@LittleBlueRoom.com
>



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Subject: RE: Re[2]: Trek, i suppose.
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From: "Diamond Joe" <diamondjoesmith@yahoo.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Re[2]: Trek, i suppose.
Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2001 02:28:21 -0500
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Ok. So you say that Enterprise violates things on a par with World War II
not happening? Well Star Trek Established at least 3 wars that HAVEN'T
happened.

If there are such glaring continuity errors, please, tell me what they are.
What episodes are being contradicted by Enterprise? I've been a Star Trek
fan since TNG, i've seen all the episodes, read many of the books, both
fictional AND the Encyclopedia, Enterprise Tech manuals, and Chronology.

Now, Chronology aside, because most of that was being made up, I'd like to
know what Canon is breached by Enterprise, remembering that the books and
anything outside of the TV series and movies are NOT canon. Peter David's
Imzadi, which is a good book, is NOT canon. I,Q. by John DeLancie is NOT
canon.

Your war analogy is nice, if Enterprise was changing any real history. But
it's not. It's changing histories of things that have never and WILL never
happen.

If you're going to respond, please do so off list.

Joseph A. Smith

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of
> Kurgan@LittleBlueRoom.com
> Sent: October 7, 2001 7:15 PM
> To: Diamond Joe (FEISTFANS-L)
> Subject: Re[2]: Trek, i suppose.
>
>
> Hello Joe,
>
> DJ> Finally, Should Ray make a mistake and admit it, i haven't
> seen anyone here
> DJ> say that he's ruined his franchise because of it.
>
>    Ok, I'll make one last comment on the topic and then I'll put a
>    cork in it since people are getting upset. The continuity problems
>    in Trek that have upset millions of fans are not the little things
>    you mention. Sure, little errors pop up all the time in Trek, and
>    honestly very few Trekkies really care, and the few that do WE
>    think are taking it too far. I just loved Shatner's Get A Life
>    sketch. Hilarious. But what bothers us are the gigantic problems.
>    Massive historical changes that effectively invalidate everything
>    else. I mean, let's say your favorite tv show is about old WWII
>    veterans. Some drama set after the war, etc. Ok, years later
>    someone comes along and creates a spinoff of your favorite show and
>    sets it during the period of the war before the original series.
>    Ok, now lets say you tune in, all excited, and you notice that, in
>    this show, there is no war! no 6 million Jews getting killed, no
>    Hitler, etc. And, to top it all off, the new cast is all carrying
>    M-16s. You see my point. It's stupid and disappointing. Big stuff,
>    that would bother anyone if the medium were something important to
>    them. And as for Enterprise, I actually like it. I have to mentally
>    remove the Trek label, because it just isn't Trek. Not at all. But
>    on its own merits it isn't too bad. In fact, I wish they'd just
>    called it something else and made no attempt to tie it in with the
>    Trek universe.
>
>    To sum up: Shakespeare doesn't eat Spam! lol
>
>
> Best regards,
>
>    Kurgan                            mailto:Kurgan@LittleBlueRoom.com
>



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Subject: Re: Trek(Shrek?), i suppose. GAH geezh omg
In-Reply-To: <000701c14f70$f2230f80$ad5541d5@telia.com>
References: <CKEDKEIMLMHNIIAFIHGPCEGHCDAA.diamondjoesmith@yahoo.com>
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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: Trek(Shrek?), i suppose. GAH geezh omg
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

At 10:45 PM 10/7/01 +0200, Magnus Arvidsson wrote:
>"The Rip" was NOT aimed at someone in particular
>but rather to all. I'm sorry if my post was unclear in
>that respect-

Wasn't me, man.  I take weekends off.

rip



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From: "Donal K. Fellows" <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
In-reply-to: <2b.1c59145c.28f20633@aol.com> (Valheru89@aol.com)
Subject: Re: Trek, i suppose.
References:  <2b.1c59145c.28f20633@aol.com>
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Donal K. Fellows" <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Trek, i suppose.
Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2001 09:45:40 +0100
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Valheru89@aol.com
> Can we shut the hell up about that dumb ass show people.

While that's not a very polite way to put it, I must agree with that
request.  The discussion should be taken elsewhere until such time as
an away-team beams down into downtown Rillanon...

Donal.
-- 
Donal K. Fellows, Department of Computer Science, University of Manchester, UK.
(work) fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk     Tel: +44-161-275-6137  (preferred email addr.)
(home) donal@ugglan.demon.co.uk  Tel: +44-1274-401017   Mobile: +44-7957-298955
http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~fellowsd/  (Don't quote my .sig; I've seen it before!)



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From: "James E.Roberts" <jroberts6@vtown.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
References:  <2b.1c59145c.28f20633@aol.com> <E15qW2e-00026v-00@athene>
Subject: Re: Trek, i suppose.
Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2001 21:07:53 +1000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James E.Roberts" <jroberts6@vtown.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Trek, i suppose.
Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2001 21:07:53 +1000
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    I have to say I agree, this whole discussion is getting out of hand.
Also one more thing, the next time I see someone dressed in Star Trek
costumes while walking down the street, I'm going to cross to the other
side. I always thought Trekies where scary, now I know It for a fact! ;)

Jamie

----- Original Message -----
From: "Donal K. Fellows" <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Monday, October 08, 2001 6:45 PM
Subject: Re: Trek, i suppose.


> Valheru89@aol.com
> > Can we shut the hell up about that dumb ass show people.
>
> While that's not a very polite way to put it, I must agree with that
> request.  The discussion should be taken elsewhere until such time as
> an away-team beams down into downtown Rillanon...
>
> Donal.
> --
> Donal K. Fellows, Department of Computer Science, University of Manchester, UK.
> (work) fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk     Tel: +44-161-275-6137  (preferred email addr.)
> (home) donal@ugglan.demon.co.uk  Tel: +44-1274-401017   Mobile: +44-7957-298955
> http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~fellowsd/  (Don't quote my .sig; I've seen it before!)
>



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From: "Sonia Tabe" <sonia@nt-tech.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: rare, advanced, uncorrected proof copy...
Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2001 21:52:27 +0930
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*** EOOH ***
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: "Sonia Tabe" <sonia@nt-tech.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: rare, advanced, uncorrected proof copy...
Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2001 21:52:27 +0930
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Did anyone else see the "rare, advanced, uncorrected proof copy of Feist's
"Krondor the Betrayal" in excellent condition" at ebay? Someone was offering
it up, and some lucky person now owns it.
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1468986923 is the
link where you can see it, if the link still works. The items finally sold
after five bids for the grand sum of $14.50 US dollars. And that's about all
I have to say on that subject matter.

On another note, I have gotten almost 3000 messages from this mailing list,
and I have saved nearly every single one. You know, as you do. =)

Later all, Sonia
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
Est Sularis Oth Mithas



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*** EOOH ***
From: "Earl Borah" <earl@ncn.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2001 08:58:38 -0700
Subject: Re: rare, advanced, uncorrected proof copy...
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> On another note, I have gotten almost 3000 messages from this mailing
> list, and I have saved nearly every single one. You know, as you do.
> =)


3000? That's nothing...I have over 4000, and I clean out my Feist 
folder every few months. Hmmm...might be time again...looks like I 
haven't done it for about 4 months.

Now if I could just get a copy of HE for my birthday, so I don't have 
to keep saving all these spoiler messages that I've been avoiding...!

  - Earl Borah
-----
  If a man speaks in a forest and a woman isn't there to hear it,
  is he still wrong?              (author unknown)



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From: "Donna M. Jaggard" <donna@arwen.org>
Organization: arwen.org
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2001 12:49:40 -0700
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Donna M. Jaggard" <donna@arwen.org>
Organization: arwen.org
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2001 12:49:40 -0700
Subject: Re: rare, advanced, uncorrected proof copy...
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Priority: normal
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> 3000? That's nothing...I have over 4000, and I clean out my Feist
> folder every few months. Hmmm...might be time again...looks like I
> haven't done it for about 4 months.

Lets see... At one point, I think I had about 30,000. I decided this 
was useless and taking up space. So, I deleted everything except 
the stuff Ray wrote. In my "Ray" folder, I have 6584. (Of course, on 
another mailing list after being on it for two years, I had about 
70,000 and could no longer open that folder without crashing...) 

But then, I've been on this list for... goodness. Ages. My archives 
date back to Aug. '97, and I know I joined before that... but I was in 
Oregon before that, and not using my computer. :) 

-d



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2001 14:13:58 -0600
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Trek, i suppose.
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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James Barker wrote:
> 
> P.S. My address, for those wishing to flame, is heechee@softhome.net -- and
> for those die-hard Trekkies who consider an insult to Trek worthy of the
> death penalty, I'd just like to say one thing: get a life. Thank you.

Ya know, I'm really sick of these ridiculous insults at those of us that
actually give a crap what goes on with something we watch and actually
give a damn about.

Craig J. Ries



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From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
References: <3BC16ABE.30861.12FA4370@localhost>
Subject: Re: rare, advanced, uncorrected proof copy...
Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2001 16:12:00 -0500
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: rare, advanced, uncorrected proof copy...
Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2001 16:12:00 -0500
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I hate to think what mine would look like after three years... let
alone someone who has been here longer than me.  But since a few
generous people keep archives I don't keep most of the list mail, in
fact I only have about 400 I have kept for various reasons...and
currently 3 in my "feistfans" inbox.

-James (Procrastinating on his studies of "Comparative Vertebrate
Anatomy" with the logic that "I'm an invert specialist, why do I
need to know anything about verts?")

----- Original Message -----
> > On another note, I have gotten almost 3000 messages from this mailing
> > list, and I have saved nearly every single one. You know, as you do.
> > =)
>
> 3000? That's nothing...I have over 4000, and I clean out my Feist
> folder every few months. Hmmm...might be time again...looks like I
> haven't done it for about 4 months.



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Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2001 15:11:27 -0700 (PDT)
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From: Robert S Evans <roevans@linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: rare, advanced, uncorrected proof copy...
In-Reply-To: <001701c1503d$e04f3900$64ec79a5@oemcomputer>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2001 15:11:27 -0700 (PDT)
From: Robert S Evans <roevans@linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: rare, advanced, uncorrected proof copy...
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

On Mon, 8 Oct 2001, James Young wrote:

> -James (Procrastinating on his studies of "Comparative Vertebrate
> Anatomy" with the logic that "I'm an invert specialist, why do I
> need to know anything about verts?")

Because you never know what bit of knowledge will spark inspiration, and
you never know what info might become pertinent to your future job, nd you
never know when *you* will be the discoverer of a previously unknown
vertebrate and will be able to use your barely remembered CVA studies to
garner everlasting fame.

On that note, I've dropped out of school on 3 seperate occasions, so I'm
not one to speak.

On another note, why are so many lists hooked up to a Cornell server?

Bob



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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Dan Lorey <dl24@cornell.edu>
Subject: Cornell Servers (was Re: rare, advanced, uncorrected proof
  copy...)
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2001 20:28:33 -0400
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Dan Lorey <dl24@cornell.edu>
Subject: Cornell Servers (was Re: rare, advanced, uncorrected proof
  copy...)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

At 15:11 10/8/01 -0700, Robert S Evans wrote:

>On another note, why are so many lists hooked up to a Cornell server?

  Because, many tens of millions of list messages ago, Cornell's
policy regarding recreational mailing lists (that is, mailing lists
that have nothing to do with Cornell classwork, university business, or
Cornell student-run organizations) was that anyone officially
affiliated with Cornell (student, staff, or faculty) could start up
a mailing list for free and keep it for as long as they remained connected 
with the University. So I imagine there were a lot of people back then
who took advantage of that offer to start up lists, and one way or
another have kept them running, either by remaining with Cornell or by
passing ownership of the list along to someone else at Cornell.

  I'm not really sure what the current policy is regarding starting new
mailing lists here, but some days I wonder if Cornell regrets making the
offer in the first place due to the strain on network resources ;) We 
have approximately 550 active members on the list, so one can calculate
the total number of copies of messages sent out on a given day. And 
last night's Daily Digest was officially digest #2346, so some clever
mathematical guesswork could give some idea about how many messages total 
have been sent through Cornell's list servers during the long history
of the list here. And I'm sure we're not the biggest list at Cornell, 
either membership- or traffic-wise. I don't know which list holds those
records now, but at one point, a Babylon 5-themed list held those records.

  Dan Lorey - Feistfans-L List Owner



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From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Zork
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 12:08:53 +0800
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*** EOOH ***
From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Zork
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 12:08:53 +0800
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

And now for something completely different........

I only recently finished Faerie Tale for the first time, and it occurred
to me to wonder whether or not Phil managed to get the perfect score in
Zork. I was also wondering if this was a reflection of your interests at
the time Ray and if you managed to get the perfect score.

CW

Who played it maybe twice when he was 8 and got bored with it very
quickly



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From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Cornell Servers (was Re: rare, advanced, uncorrected proof 
 copy...)
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 17:34:58 +1000 (GMT+1000)
From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Cornell Servers (was Re: rare, advanced, uncorrected proof 
 copy...)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

>   Because, many tens of millions of list messages ago, Cornell's
> policy regarding recreational mailing lists (that is, mailing lists
> that have nothing to do with Cornell classwork, university business, or
> Cornell student-run organizations) was that anyone officially
> affiliated with Cornell (student, staff, or faculty) could start up
> a mailing list for free and keep it for as long as they remained connected
> with the University. So I imagine there were a lot of people back then
> who took advantage of that offer to start up lists, and one way or
> another have kept them running, either by remaining with Cornell or by
> passing ownership of the list along to someone else at Cornell.
>   I'm not really sure what the current policy is regarding starting new
> mailing lists here, but some days I wonder if Cornell regrets making the
> offer in the first place due to the strain on network resources ;) We
> have approximately 550 active members on the list, so one can calculate
> the total number of copies of messages sent out on a given day. And
> last night's Daily Digest was officially digest #2346, so some clever
> mathematical guesswork could give some idea about how many messages total
> have been sent through Cornell's list servers during the long history
> of the list here. And I'm sure we're not the biggest list at Cornell,
> either membership- or traffic-wise. I don't know which list holds those
> records now, but at one point, a Babylon 5-themed list held those records.
>   Dan Lorey - Feistfans-L List Owner

Just makes me wonder,

Dan did you set up the list, and email Ray to join it, or did he just find
out and join?

I'd be interested to find out the history of the list..

Thanks
Darragh
-=-=
www.iamtheporkfireman.com
[Email]: s356179@student.uq.edu.au [ICQ]: 114283262



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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: Cornell Servers (was Re: rare, advanced, uncorrected proof
  copy...)
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2001 09:33:07 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: Cornell Servers (was Re: rare, advanced, uncorrected proof
  copy...)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

At 08:28 PM 10/8/01 -0400, Dan Lorey wrote:
>last night's Daily Digest was officially digest #2346, so some clever

And unofficially, it was digest #2.  What up with that?
(today's was #3, the one before #2 was something like
#1088408193).  

I'm probably going to give up on the fortnightly archive
because everytime Cornell changes the format, I need to
go in and rewrite the script that parses them.

rip



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From: "Donal K. Fellows" <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
In-reply-to: <3BC1A0E4.25426.AB23D1A@localhost> (donna@arwen.org)
Subject: Re: rare, advanced, uncorrected proof copy...
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Donal K. Fellows" <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: rare, advanced, uncorrected proof copy...
Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2001 09:52:42 +0100
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"Donna M. Jaggard" <donna@arwen.org>
> Lets see... At one point, I think I had about 30,000. I decided this 
> was useless and taking up space. So, I deleted everything except 
> the stuff Ray wrote. In my "Ray" folder, I have 6584. (Of course, on 
> another mailing list after being on it for two years, I had about 
> 70,000 and could no longer open that folder without crashing...) 

I've got approaching 74k messages from this list saved in my archive
(really a collection of compressed folders.)  I don't even want to
think about how much disk space that occupies...  <g>

Donal.
-- 
Donal K. Fellows, Department of Computer Science, University of Manchester, UK.
(work) fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk     Tel: +44-161-275-6137  (preferred email addr.)
(home) donal@ugglan.demon.co.uk  Tel: +44-1274-401017   Mobile: +44-7957-298955
http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~fellowsd/  (Don't quote my .sig; I've seen it before!)



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Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 02:01:38 -0800
Subject: Re: Zork
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 02:01:38 -0800
Subject: Re: Zork
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On Monday, October 8, 2001, at 09:08 PM, David Pengelley wrote:

> And now for something completely different........
>
> I only recently finished Faerie Tale for the first time, and it occurred
> to me to wonder whether or not Phil managed to get the perfect score in
> Zork. I was also wondering if this was a reflection of your interests at
> the time Ray and if you managed to get the perfect score.
>
> CW
>
> Who played it maybe twice when he was 8 and got bored with it very
> quickly

Phil never go the perfect score.  I never got the perfect score.

But I did manage to avoid the Hideous Grue.

Best, R.E.F.


> ----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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From: "Doug Triplett, Superhero in Training !!!" <trippy@dougtriplett.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: list history
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Doug Triplett, Superhero in Training !!!" <trippy@dougtriplett.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: list history
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 05:57:45 -0400
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I am the one that got Ray to join the list.

I found the list online one night. I dont remeber how. and joined up. The
discussion was pretty good.

I was using AOL at this time. AOL has a Ray discussion board on it and Ray
would post on it. I emailed Ray and told him about about the list and how to
subscibe.

Soon after that Ray joined the list and has been around since then.

Some other History:

Mike Hoffman was the man who started the list. He had to leave after a while
at which point Dan Lorey took over and got our list on the Cornell Servers
(which we love to try to overload :) )

I have been on the list since almost the beginning (except for mysteriously
getting dropped occasionaly). There are a few others on here that have been
on as long as I have. There are a few that have been on longer. Many of the
oldest members dont post much anymore but we ar estill here.

I hope this helps.



Doug Triplett





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Subject: Re: Cornell Servers (was Re: rare, advanced, uncorrected proof 
 copy...)
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Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 03:36:43 -0700 (PDT)
From: Robert S Evans <roevans@linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Cornell Servers (was Re: rare, advanced, uncorrected proof 
 copy...)
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Thanks for the info.  I was curious as to what relationship a Fantasy
author, the sport of Orienteering, and a few other things had with
Cornell.



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2001 09:17:04 -0500
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Nat Russo <nrusso@cox-internet.com>
Subject: Re: list history
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Hey Doug,

What year did the list begin?  I signed up in '95 IIRC, but had a two year 
hiatus between '99 - '01.

Nat Russo

At 05:57 AM 10/9/01 -0400, you wrote:
>I am the one that got Ray to join the list.
>
>I found the list online one night. I dont remeber how. and joined up. The
>discussion was pretty good.
>
>I was using AOL at this time. AOL has a Ray discussion board on it and Ray
>would post on it. I emailed Ray and told him about about the list and how to
>subscibe.
>
>Soon after that Ray joined the list and has been around since then.
>
>Some other History:
>
>Mike Hoffman was the man who started the list. He had to leave after a while
>at which point Dan Lorey took over and got our list on the Cornell Servers
>(which we love to try to overload :) )
>
>I have been on the list since almost the beginning (except for mysteriously
>getting dropped occasionaly). There are a few others on here that have been
>on as long as I have. There are a few that have been on longer. Many of the
>oldest members dont post much anymore but we ar estill here.
>
>I hope this helps.
>
>
>
>Doug Triplett



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Organization: dd Computing
To: Nat Russo <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re[2]: list history
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Oct 2001 07:57:15.0176 (UTC) FILETIME=[2D005A80:01C15161]
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Hello All

I think I first joined in late 95 (unfortunately the records I have of
the list where destroyed in a Hard Drive Crash), but have been mainly
inactive between 99-00, but am back active now.

Wednesday, October 10, 2001, 12:17:04 AM, you wrote:

NR> Hey Doug,

NR> What year did the list begin?  I signed up in '95 IIRC, but had a two year 
NR> hiatus between '99 - '01.

NR> Nat Russo

NR> At 05:57 AM 10/9/01 -0400, you wrote:
>>I am the one that got Ray to join the list.
>>
>>I found the list online one night. I dont remeber how. and joined up. The
>>discussion was pretty good.
>>
>>I was using AOL at this time. AOL has a Ray discussion board on it and Ray
>>would post on it. I emailed Ray and told him about about the list and how to
>>subscibe.
>>
>>Soon after that Ray joined the list and has been around since then.
>>
>>Some other History:
>>
>>Mike Hoffman was the man who started the list. He had to leave after a while
>>at which point Dan Lorey took over and got our list on the Cornell Servers
>>(which we love to try to overload :) )
>>
>>I have been on the list since almost the beginning (except for mysteriously
>>getting dropped occasionaly). There are a few others on here that have been
>>on as long as I have. There are a few that have been on longer. Many of the
>>oldest members dont post much anymore but we ar estill here.
>>
>>I hope this helps.
>>
>>
>>
>>Doug Triplett


-- 
Best regards,
 Paul                            mailto:pjduthie@iprimus.com.au



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From: "A Irving" <aignome@dingoblue.net.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Fw: New screen saver available
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 18:59:36 +1000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "A Irving" <aignome@dingoblue.net.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Fw: New screen saver available
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 18:59:36 +1000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I thought you all may be interested in this, since one of the images is
entitled "Servant of the Empire". Haven't got the money to pay for it but
the preview looks nice.

----- Original Message -----
>From: Trystane
>To: JannyFans@mail015.syd.optusnet.com.au
>Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2001 11:07 AM
>Subject: New screen saver available
>Second Nature has released the new Janny Wurts and Don Maitz screen saver
>entitle Enchanted Visions. It is available as a download from
>http://www.secondnaturecd.com/envisbymaitw.html . {HYPERLINK
>"http://www.secondnaturecd.com/envisbymaitw.html"}The regular price is
>$14.99 US but is available now as a Limited Special Offer of $10.99 US.
>Jeff Watson
>http://www.paravia.com
>Webmaster for:
> The Janny Wurts Official Webpage (http://www.paravia.com/JannyWurts)
> The Don Maitz Official Webpage (http://www.paravia.com/DonMaitz)
> The Jael Official Webpage (http://www.jael.net)
>Help recover stolen artwork (http://www.paravia.com/StolenArtwork)

CIAO,
            Aaron

http://www.hallofworlds.net/kerr/main.php
http://www.nightshadow.co.uk



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Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 05:13:44 -0700 (PDT)
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From: Fred Collington <fcolling@yahoo.com>
Subject: Zork - This topic really dates us!
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 05:13:44 -0700 (PDT)
From: Fred Collington <fcolling@yahoo.com>
Subject: Zork - This topic really dates us!
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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> Phil never go the perfect score.  I never got the
>perfect score. 
>But I did manage to avoid the Hideous Grue.
> 
> Best, R.E.F.

Was there any way out of the maze? I remeber being
trapped there and never getting out. I tested it
during other sessions taking one move in and one
reversed move out and that also failed. A 'tar pit'
type of maze perhaps?

Cheers,
Fred
 
 
 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals.
http://personals.yahoo.com



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Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 09:47:36 -0700
Subject: Re: Zork - This topic really dates us!
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 09:47:36 -0700
Subject: Re: Zork - This topic really dates us!
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On Wednesday, October 10, 2001, at 05:13 AM, Fred Collington wrote:

> " Phil never go the perfect score.  I never got the
> perfect score.
> But I did manage to avoid the Hideous Grue.
>
>  Best, R.E.F."
>
> Was there any way out of the maze? I remeber being
> trapped there and never getting out. I tested it
> during other sessions taking one move in and one
> reversed move out and that also failed. A 'tar pit'
> type of maze perhaps?
>
> Cheers,
> Fred
>

LOL.

You're asking me about a game I played 25 years ago! <g>

I have no idea.  I think there was a way out of the maze, but I wouldn't 
count on my memory being accurate.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Larry Siegel <larry@psihawk.com>
Subject: Re: Zork - This topic really dates us!
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 12:53:45 -0400
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Larry Siegel <larry@psihawk.com>
Subject: Re: Zork - This topic really dates us!
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

At 09:47 AM 10/10/01 -0700, you wrote:

>On Wednesday, October 10, 2001, at 05:13 AM, Fred Collington wrote:
>
>>" Phil never go the perfect score.  I never got the
>>perfect score.
>>But I did manage to avoid the Hideous Grue.
>>
>>  Best, R.E.F."
>>
>>Was there any way out of the maze? I remeber being
>>trapped there and never getting out. I tested it
>>during other sessions taking one move in and one
>>reversed move out and that also failed. A 'tar pit'
>>type of maze perhaps?
>>
>>Cheers,
>>Fred
>
>LOL.
>
>You're asking me about a game I played 25 years ago! <g>
>
>I have no idea.  I think there was a way out of the maze, but I wouldn't 
>count on my memory being accurate.


I just picked up the zork trilogy on a CD a while ago... all 3 original 
text games, and the clues and stuff...
Never bothered actually playing it again... but i bought it :)




Larry

My Homepage
http://www.psihawk.com

Raymond E. Feist FAQ
http://www.psihawk.com/feist



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Subject: RE: Zork - This topic really dates us!
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James & Celeste Matlock" <jmatlock@home.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Zork - This topic really dates us!
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 10:45:50 -0700
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> 
> On Wednesday, October 10, 2001, at 05:13 AM, Fred Collington wrote:
> 
> > " Phil never go the perfect score.  I never got the
> > perfect score.
> > But I did manage to avoid the Hideous Grue.
> >
> >  Best, R.E.F."
> >
> > Was there any way out of the maze? I remeber being
> > trapped there and never getting out. I tested it
> > during other sessions taking one move in and one
> > reversed move out and that also failed. A 'tar pit'
> > type of maze perhaps?
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Fred
> >
> 
> LOL.
> 
> You're asking me about a game I played 25 years ago! <g>
> 
> I have no idea.  I think there was a way out of the maze, but I wouldn't 
> count on my memory being accurate.
> 
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----

Well, you know what they say about old age...the first thing to go is your
memory <G>.

Jim



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Subject: RE: Zork - This topic really dates us!
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*** EOOH ***
Subject: RE: Zork - This topic really dates us!
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 13:22:10 -0500
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From: "Lowder, Jason" <jasonl@spfld.kebcpa.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
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I found this website for Zork I - The Great Underground Empire.  As you
can tell by the URL it is a cheat site, and has the walkthrough.

http://www.gamesdomain.com/cheats/6451.html

Jason

-----Original Message-----
>From: James & Celeste Matlock [mailto:jmatlock@home.com] 
>Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2001 12:46 PM
>To: FEISTFANS-L
>Subject: RE: Zork - This topic really dates us!
>
>> 
>> On Wednesday, October 10, 2001, at 05:13 AM, Fred Collington wrote:
>> 
>> > " Phil never go the perfect score.  I never got the
>> > perfect score.
>> > But I did manage to avoid the Hideous Grue.
>> >
>> >  Best, R.E.F."
>> >
>> > Was there any way out of the maze? I remeber being
>> > trapped there and never getting out. I tested it
>> > during other sessions taking one move in and one
>> > reversed move out and that also failed. A 'tar pit'
>> > type of maze perhaps?
>> >
>> > Cheers,
>> > Fred
>> >
>> 
>> LOL.
>> 
>> You're asking me about a game I played 25 years ago! <g>
>> 
>> I have no idea.  I think there was a way out of the maze, but I wouldn't 
>> count on my memory being accurate.
>> 
>> Best, R.E.F.
>> ----
>
>Well, you know what they say about old age...the first thing to go is
>your
>memory <G>.
>
>Jim
>


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References: <20011010121344.40024.qmail@web9604.mail.yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Zork - This topic really dates us!
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From: "Firesight" <wolfriderfiresight@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re: Zork - This topic really dates us!
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 10:46:27 -0300
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Hmmm...

It dates us does it?  Wasn't before too long ago, that the Zork games, were
the best thing since sliced bread, for the community I hang out in.  No, we
are not all flakes, or hang out in t he past (by our own choice).

Those great Interactive Fiction titles, were the only thing at one time,
that was available to the blind computer gamer.  So much has changed in the
past 5 years...and I've been right there, watching it all.  On the inside,
the outside, and covering the inside from the outside.

*-) Firesight *-)

----- Original Message -----
From: "Fred Collington" <fcolling@yahoo.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2001 9:13 AM
Subject: Zork - This topic really dates us!


> " Phil never go the perfect score.  I never got the
> perfect score.
> But I did manage to avoid the Hideous Grue.
>
>  Best, R.E.F."
>
> Was there any way out of the maze? I remeber being
> trapped there and never getting out. I tested it
> during other sessions taking one move in and one
> reversed move out and that also failed. A 'tar pit'
> type of maze perhaps?
>
> Cheers,
> Fred
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals.
> http://personals.yahoo.com
>
>



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From: Joseph Smith <diamondjoesmith@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Zork - This topic really dates us!
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 15:46:12 -0400 (EDT)
From: Joseph Smith <diamondjoesmith@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Zork - This topic really dates us!
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

The topic may date us, but at least we aren't flaming
each other over it...;)

I remember playing Zork on an old 286 with a green TTY
screen....fun stuff that.

Anybody here remember Nethack?

Joseph A. Smith

--- Firesight <wolfriderfiresight@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Hmmm...
> 
> It dates us does it?  Wasn't before too long ago,
> that the Zork games, were
> the best thing since sliced bread, for the community
> I hang out in.  No, we
> are not all flakes, or hang out in t he past (by our
> own choice).
> 
> Those great Interactive Fiction titles, were the
> only thing at one time,
> that was available to the blind computer gamer.  So
> much has changed in the
> past 5 years...and I've been right there, watching
> it all.  On the inside,
> the outside, and covering the inside from the
> outside.
> 
> *-) Firesight *-)
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Fred Collington" <fcolling@yahoo.com>
> To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2001 9:13 AM
> Subject: Zork - This topic really dates us!
> 
> 
> > " Phil never go the perfect score.  I never got
> the
> > perfect score.
> > But I did manage to avoid the Hideous Grue.
> >
> >  Best, R.E.F."
> >
> > Was there any way out of the maze? I remeber being
> > trapped there and never getting out. I tested it
> > during other sessions taking one move in and one
> > reversed move out and that also failed. A 'tar
> pit'
> > type of maze perhaps?
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Fred
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals.
> > http://personals.yahoo.com
> >
> >
> 


_______________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca



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Subject: Re: Zork - This topic really dates us!
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 07:35:01 +1000 (EST)
From: David Smith - NT Interoperability Engineer <David.M.Smith@Sun.COM>
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Zork - This topic really dates us!
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Nethack? Yup, remember it well :) Also Hack, which NetHack was based on, and the 
original Rogue, which Hack was based on. I'm not really showing my age too badly 
there though... when I first played Rogue (late '70's) my age was still in the 
single digit range :)

Just to kinda tie this into the Zork thread. Does anybody else remember the true 
significance behind "xyzzy"?

-- David Smith

» The topic may date us, but at least we aren't flaming
» each other over it...;)
» 
» I remember playing Zork on an old 286 with a green TTY
» screen....fun stuff that.
» 
» Anybody here remember Nethack?
» 
» Joseph A. Smith
» 
» --- Firesight <wolfriderfiresight@hotmail.com> wrote:
» > Hmmm...
» > 
» > It dates us does it?  Wasn't before too long ago,
» > that the Zork games, were
» > the best thing since sliced bread, for the community
» > I hang out in.  No, we
» > are not all flakes, or hang out in t he past (by our
» > own choice).
» > 
» > Those great Interactive Fiction titles, were the
» > only thing at one time,
» > that was available to the blind computer gamer.  So
» > much has changed in the
» > past 5 years...and I've been right there, watching
» > it all.  On the inside,
» > the outside, and covering the inside from the
» > outside.
» > 
» > *-) Firesight *-)
» > 
» > ----- Original Message -----
» > From: "Fred Collington" <fcolling@yahoo.com>
» > To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
» > Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2001 9:13 AM
» > Subject: Zork - This topic really dates us!
» > 
» > 
» > > " Phil never go the perfect score.  I never got
» > the
» > > perfect score.
» > > But I did manage to avoid the Hideous Grue.
» > >
» > >  Best, R.E.F."
» > >
» > > Was there any way out of the maze? I remeber being
» > > trapped there and never getting out. I tested it
» > > during other sessions taking one move in and one
» > > reversed move out and that also failed. A 'tar
» > pit'
» > > type of maze perhaps?
» > >
» > > Cheers,
» > > Fred
» > >
» > >
» > >
» > >
» > >
» > > __________________________________________________
» > > Do You Yahoo!?
» > > Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals.
» > > http://personals.yahoo.com
» > >
» > >
» > 
» 
» 
» _______________________________________________________
» Do You Yahoo!?
» Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca
» 



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Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 23:19:18 +0100
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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Al Solo <solo.nova@btinternet.com>
Subject: The Legend of the Prophet and the Assassin (Sort of OT)
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Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 23:19:18 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Al Solo <solo.nova@btinternet.com>
Subject: The Legend of the Prophet and the Assassin (Sort of OT)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I just read a review for this game, and I find a few similarities to Ray's 
work. Probably coincidence, but who knows?

Firstly, the name - "The Legend of the Prophet and the Assassin", bares a 
strange resemblance to the name "Profit and the Grey Assassin."

Secondly, according to the review "You play through the eyes of Ay-Sayf the 
assassin in his search for Simon the prophet." Ok, I know this is poor 
example, but Simon is similar to Simion, in Profit and the Grey Assassin.

And lastly, Part 2 of the game is called "The Secrets of Alamut." Alamut is 
very similar to LaMut.

Anyway, that's it. Just thought I'd show you all this. Maybe the game 
creators are fans of Ray? <G>

Al



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Subject: Re: Zork - This topic really dates us!
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 23:38:24 +0100
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*** EOOH ***
From: "geoff pugh" <gp004b6348@blueyonder.co.uk>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Zork - This topic really dates us!
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 23:38:24 +0100
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But is there anyone who remembers the really big cave adventure.
you throw bomb bull eats bomb.
this is abombimabull.
cos that always made me grin



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Subject: Re: Zork - This topic really dates us!
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Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 09:41:29 +1000
From: "Jason Mulligan" <sulimo@bigpond.net.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Zork - This topic really dates us!
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On 10/10/2001 at 10:46 AM Firesight wrote:

>Hmmm...
>
>It dates us does it?  Wasn't before too long ago, that the Zork games, were
>the best thing since sliced bread, for the community I hang out in.  No, we
>are not all flakes, or hang out in t he past (by our own choice).
>
>Those great Interactive Fiction titles, were the only thing at one time,
>that was available to the blind computer gamer.  So much has changed in the
>past 5 years...and I've been right there, watching it all.  On the inside,
>the outside, and covering the inside from the outside.

I must admit I miss those days when there was decent adventure games...



h



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 16:34:26 -0700
From: Carl Dershem <dershem@home.com>
Organization: Project Selene
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Zork - This topic really dates us!
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David Smith - NT Interoperability Engineer wrote:
> 
> Nethack? Yup, remember it well :) Also Hack, which NetHack was based on, and the
> original Rogue, which Hack was based on. I'm not really showing my age too badly
> there though... when I first played Rogue (late '70's) my age was still in the
> single digit range :)

You're taking me back to my navy days.  Used to play HACK a lot, but had
a bad habit of losing the dog very early on.

cd



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From: Allan Mills <milla@css.com.au>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" (FEISTFANS-L) <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Zork - This topic really dates us!
Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 08:41:53 +1000
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*** EOOH ***
From: Allan Mills <milla@css.com.au>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" (FEISTFANS-L) <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Zork - This topic really dates us!
Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 08:41:53 +1000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

 Yes I remember Nethack. ASCII roleplaying at it's finest, or at least it's
hardest. Unlike other game Nethack seemed to be designed to be almost
impossible to win without cheating (ie. backing up your save files).

 I've still got Zork as part of a collection of Infocom games. I really need
to dust it off and finish it.

 Allan

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joseph Smith [mailto:diamondjoesmith@yahoo.com]
> Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2001 5:46 AM
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Subject: Re: Zork - This topic really dates us!
> 
> 
> The topic may date us, but at least we aren't flaming
> each other over it...;)
> 
> I remember playing Zork on an old 286 with a green TTY
> screen....fun stuff that.
> 
> Anybody here remember Nethack?
> 
> Joseph A. Smith
> 
> --- Firesight <wolfriderfiresight@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > Hmmm...
> > 
> > It dates us does it?  Wasn't before too long ago,
> > that the Zork games, were
> > the best thing since sliced bread, for the community
> > I hang out in.  No, we
> > are not all flakes, or hang out in t he past (by our
> > own choice).
> > 
> > Those great Interactive Fiction titles, were the
> > only thing at one time,
> > that was available to the blind computer gamer.  So
> > much has changed in the
> > past 5 years...and I've been right there, watching
> > it all.  On the inside,
> > the outside, and covering the inside from the
> > outside.
> > 
> > *-) Firesight *-)
> > 
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Fred Collington" <fcolling@yahoo.com>
> > To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> > Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2001 9:13 AM
> > Subject: Zork - This topic really dates us!
> > 
> > 
> > > " Phil never go the perfect score.  I never got
> > the
> > > perfect score.
> > > But I did manage to avoid the Hideous Grue.
> > >
> > >  Best, R.E.F."
> > >
> > > Was there any way out of the maze? I remeber being
> > > trapped there and never getting out. I tested it
> > > during other sessions taking one move in and one
> > > reversed move out and that also failed. A 'tar
> > pit'
> > > type of maze perhaps?
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > > Fred
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > __________________________________________________
> > > Do You Yahoo!?
> > > Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals.
> > > http://personals.yahoo.com
> > >
> > >
> > 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca
> 
> 



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Subject: RE: Zork - This topic really dates us!
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 21:49:12 -0500
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*** EOOH ***
X-Apparently-From: <diamondjoesmith@yahoo.com>
From: "Diamond Joe" <diamondjoesmith@yahoo.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Zork - This topic really dates us!
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 21:49:12 -0500
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*L* personally my favourite was editing hack.cfg so that i could have
whatever kind of familiar/fruit/names i wished....

The wand of wishing was the best. Wish for a blessed ring of metamorphosis
and a blessed ring of control metamorphosis. Become a female dragon of any
kind and you could create as many little minions as you wanted for
familiars...:)

Joseph A. Smith
(I think i gotta go play it now...*L*)

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Carl Dershem
> Sent: October 10, 2001 6:34 PM
> To: FEISTFANS-L
> Subject: Re: Zork - This topic really dates us!
>
>
> David Smith - NT Interoperability Engineer wrote:
> >
> > Nethack? Yup, remember it well :) Also Hack, which NetHack was
> based on, and the
> > original Rogue, which Hack was based on. I'm not really showing
> my age too badly
> > there though... when I first played Rogue (late '70's) my age
> was still in the
> > single digit range :)
>
> You're taking me back to my navy days.  Used to play HACK a lot, but had
> a bad habit of losing the dog very early on.
>
> cd
>



_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com



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From: Tim Nicholas <tim@nicholas.net.nz>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Zork - This topic really dates us!
Message-ID: <20011011155851.A576@nicholas.net.nz>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 15:58:51 +1300
From: Tim Nicholas <tim@nicholas.net.nz>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Zork - This topic really dates us!
User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.22i
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On Wed, Oct 10, 2001 at 03:46:12PM -0400, Joseph Smith wrote:
> The topic may date us, but at least we aren't flaming
> each other over it...;)
> 
> I remember playing Zork on an old 286 with a green TTY
> screen....fun stuff that.
> 
> Anybody here remember Nethack?
> 

Actually, I have the current version installed on my computer now...
(3.3.1) I think it's still being developed too... The copyright on
it is 1985-2000.

> Joseph A. Smith
> 
 
Tim

-- 
Tim Nicholas                          ||                      Cilix
Email: tim@nicholas.net.nz            ||              ICQ# 15869961
http://tim.nicholas.net.nz/           ||       Dunedin, New Zealand
Cell phone# +64 21 113 0399           || Home phone# +64 3 471 8415



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From: "Diamond Joe" <diamondjoesmith@yahoo.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Zork - This topic really dates us!
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 21:49:11 -0500
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*** EOOH ***
X-Apparently-From: <diamondjoesmith@yahoo.com>
From: "Diamond Joe" <diamondjoesmith@yahoo.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Zork - This topic really dates us!
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 21:49:11 -0500
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

*LOL* well, I won't date you too much then.....I was in the single digits
when i was playing Hack and NetHack too.....but it was in the 80's

For those interested, Netchack IS still avaliable....:) Those crazy
university programmers are still putting out new versions....
www.nethack.org

You die...--More--

Joseph A. Smith

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of David Smith - NT
> Interoperability Engineer
> Sent: October 10, 2001 4:35 PM
> To: FEISTFANS-L
> Subject: Re: Zork - This topic really dates us!
>
>
> Nethack? Yup, remember it well :) Also Hack, which NetHack was
> based on, and the
> original Rogue, which Hack was based on. I'm not really showing
> my age too badly
> there though... when I first played Rogue (late '70's) my age was
> still in the
> single digit range :)
>
> Just to kinda tie this into the Zork thread. Does anybody else
> remember the true
> significance behind "xyzzy"?
>
> -- David Smith
>
> » The topic may date us, but at least we aren't flaming
> » each other over it...;)
> »
> » I remember playing Zork on an old 286 with a green TTY
> » screen....fun stuff that.
> »
> » Anybody here remember Nethack?
> »
> » Joseph A. Smith
> »
> » --- Firesight <wolfriderfiresight@hotmail.com> wrote:
> » > Hmmm...
> » >
> » > It dates us does it?  Wasn't before too long ago,
> » > that the Zork games, were
> » > the best thing since sliced bread, for the community
> » > I hang out in.  No, we
> » > are not all flakes, or hang out in t he past (by our
> » > own choice).
> » >
> » > Those great Interactive Fiction titles, were the
> » > only thing at one time,
> » > that was available to the blind computer gamer.  So
> » > much has changed in the
> » > past 5 years...and I've been right there, watching
> » > it all.  On the inside,
> » > the outside, and covering the inside from the
> » > outside.
> » >
> » > *-) Firesight *-)
> » >
> » > ----- Original Message -----
> » > From: "Fred Collington" <fcolling@yahoo.com>
> » > To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> » > Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2001 9:13 AM
> » > Subject: Zork - This topic really dates us!
> » >
> » >
> » > > " Phil never go the perfect score.  I never got
> » > the
> » > > perfect score.
> » > > But I did manage to avoid the Hideous Grue.
> » > >
> » > >  Best, R.E.F."
> » > >
> » > > Was there any way out of the maze? I remeber being
> » > > trapped there and never getting out. I tested it
> » > > during other sessions taking one move in and one
> » > > reversed move out and that also failed. A 'tar
> » > pit'
> » > > type of maze perhaps?
> » > >
> » > > Cheers,
> » > > Fred
> » > >
> » > >
> » > >
> » > >
> » > >
> » > > __________________________________________________
> » > > Do You Yahoo!?
> » > > Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals.
> » > > http://personals.yahoo.com
> » > >
> » > >
> » >
> »
> »
> » _______________________________________________________
> » Do You Yahoo!?
> » Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca
> »
>



_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com



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From: "Diamond Joe" <diamondjoesmith@yahoo.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Zork - This topic really dates us!
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 23:14:46 -0500
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*** EOOH ***
X-Apparently-From: <diamondjoesmith@yahoo.com>
From: "Diamond Joe" <diamondjoesmith@yahoo.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Zork - This topic really dates us!
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 23:14:46 -0500
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

right on both counts.

It's definitly come a long way from when we used to heist the school
computers in the library for Hack at lunchtime...:)

Joseph A. Smith

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Tim Nicholas
> Sent: October 10, 2001 9:59 PM
> To: FEISTFANS-L
> Subject: Re: Zork - This topic really dates us!
>
>
> On Wed, Oct 10, 2001 at 03:46:12PM -0400, Joseph Smith wrote:
> > The topic may date us, but at least we aren't flaming
> > each other over it...;)
> >
> > I remember playing Zork on an old 286 with a green TTY
> > screen....fun stuff that.
> >
> > Anybody here remember Nethack?
> >
>
> Actually, I have the current version installed on my computer now...
> (3.3.1) I think it's still being developed too... The copyright on
> it is 1985-2000.
>
> > Joseph A. Smith
> >
>
> Tim
>
> --
> Tim Nicholas                          ||                      Cilix
> Email: tim@nicholas.net.nz            ||              ICQ# 15869961
> http://tim.nicholas.net.nz/           ||       Dunedin, New Zealand
> Cell phone# +64 21 113 0399           || Home phone# +64 3 471 8415
>



_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com



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Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 14:35:55 +1000 (EST)
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 14:35:55 +1000 (EST)
From: David Smith - NT Interoperability Engineer <David.M.Smith@Sun.COM>
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: RE: Zork - This topic really dates us!
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

                  ----------
                 /          \
                /    REST    \
               /      IN      \
              /     PEACE      \
             /                  \
             |      David       |
             |       0 Au       |
             |   killed by a    |
             |      Joseph      |
             |                  |
             |                  |
             |       2001       |
            *|     *  *  *      | *
   _________)/\\_//(\/(/\)/\//\/|_)_______

(Yes, I changed the killed by line...)

-- David

» *LOL* well, I won't date you too much then.....I was in the single digits
» when i was playing Hack and NetHack too.....but it was in the 80's
» 
» For those interested, Netchack IS still avaliable....:) Those crazy
» university programmers are still putting out new versions....
» www.nethack.org
» 
» You die...--More--
» 
» Joseph A. Smith
» 
» > -----Original Message-----
» > From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
» > [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of David Smith - NT
» > Interoperability Engineer
» > Sent: October 10, 2001 4:35 PM
» > To: FEISTFANS-L
» > Subject: Re: Zork - This topic really dates us!
» >
» >
» > Nethack? Yup, remember it well :) Also Hack, which NetHack was
» > based on, and the
» > original Rogue, which Hack was based on. I'm not really showing
» > my age too badly
» > there though... when I first played Rogue (late '70's) my age was
» > still in the
» > single digit range :)
» >
» > Just to kinda tie this into the Zork thread. Does anybody else
» > remember the true
» > significance behind "xyzzy"?
» >
» > -- David Smith
» >
» > » The topic may date us, but at least we aren't flaming
» > » each other over it...;)
» > »
» > » I remember playing Zork on an old 286 with a green TTY
» > » screen....fun stuff that.
» > »
» > » Anybody here remember Nethack?
» > »
» > » Joseph A. Smith



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References: <CKEDKEIMLMHNIIAFIHGPEEHOCDAA.diamondjoesmith@yahoo.com>
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 21:41:33 -0700
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From: Alan Kellogg <mythusmage@cts.com>
Subject: Ray's Gaming Buddies
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 21:41:33 -0700
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Alan Kellogg <mythusmage@cts.com>
Subject: Ray's Gaming Buddies
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

This question came up on one of the Steve Jackson Games newsgroups.

Ray, did you ever game with Dave Brin?

Alan



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Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 19:09:17 +1000 (GMT+1000)
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From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Zork - This topic really dates us!
In-Reply-To: <CKEDKEIMLMHNIIAFIHGPKEHNCDAA.diamondjoesmith@yahoo.com>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 19:09:17 +1000 (GMT+1000)
From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Zork - This topic really dates us!
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Anyone ever play LORD?

bbs game?

I'm the process of making a Delphi clone for an assignment

> *L* personally my favourite was editing hack.cfg so that i could have
> whatever kind of familiar/fruit/names i wished....
>
> The wand of wishing was the best. Wish for a blessed ring of metamorphosis
> and a blessed ring of control metamorphosis. Become a female dragon of any
> kind and you could create as many little minions as you wanted for
> familiars...:)
>
> Joseph A. Smith
> (I think i gotta go play it now...*L*)
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Carl Dershem
> > Sent: October 10, 2001 6:34 PM
> > To: FEISTFANS-L
> > Subject: Re: Zork - This topic really dates us!
> >
> >
> > David Smith - NT Interoperability Engineer wrote:
> > >
> > > Nethack? Yup, remember it well :) Also Hack, which NetHack was
> > based on, and the
> > > original Rogue, which Hack was based on. I'm not really showing
> > my age too badly
> > > there though... when I first played Rogue (late '70's) my age
> > was still in the
> > > single digit range :)
> >
> > You're taking me back to my navy days.  Used to play HACK a lot, but had
> > a bad habit of losing the dog very early on.
> >
> > cd
> >
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>

Thanks
Darragh
-=-=
www.iamtheporkfireman.com
[Email]: s356179@student.uq.edu.au [ICQ]: 114283262



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Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 05:52:31 -0700
Subject: Re: Ray's Gaming Buddies
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 05:52:31 -0700
Subject: Re: Ray's Gaming Buddies
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Wednesday, October 10, 2001, at 09:41 PM, Alan Kellogg wrote:

> This question came up on one of the Steve Jackson Games newsgroups.
>
> Ray, did you ever game with Dave Brin?
>
> Alan
>
>
>
>

Very briefly, back when he was a graduate student at UCSD.  He came to a 
few of the Friday night games at Steve and Jons.  He was never one of 
the founding members or did he contribute much by way of rules or 
concepts.  David and I were never friends, rather we were friendly 
acquaintances.  We had a parting of the ways over a personal issue 
several years back and I haven't talked to him since.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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From: Fred Collington <fcolling@yahoo.com>
Subject: Zork - xyzzy
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 06:05:17 -0700 (PDT)
From: Fred Collington <fcolling@yahoo.com>
Subject: Zork - xyzzy
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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>
>Just to kinda tie this into the Zork thread. Does
>anybody else remember 
>the true 
>significance behind "xyzzy"?
>
>-- David Smith

David, I remember the string, I've used it as a
password more than once. Show off your superior memory
and tell me what it was in Zork.

Fred




=====
Fred Collington
Oracle DBA
Naval Air Warfare Center, Training Systems Division

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals.
http://personals.yahoo.com



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From: "Diamond Joe" <diamondjoesmith@yahoo.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: NetHack (Was RE: Zork)
Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 10:33:22 -0500
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*** EOOH ***
X-Apparently-From: <diamondjoesmith@yahoo.com>
From: "Diamond Joe" <diamondjoesmith@yahoo.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: NetHack (Was RE: Zork)
Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 10:33:22 -0500
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

You die...die?[y/n]n
Ok, so you don't die.

Explore mode made for the most fun. Not very challenging, but fun...:)

Joseph A. Smith

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of David Smith - NT
> Interoperability Engineer
> Sent: October 10, 2001 11:36 PM
> To: FEISTFANS-L
> Subject: RE: Zork - This topic really dates us!
>
>
>                   ----------
>                  /          \
>                 /    REST    \
>                /      IN      \
>               /     PEACE      \
>              /                  \
>              |      David       |
>              |       0 Au       |
>              |   killed by a    |
>              |      Joseph      |
>              |                  |
>              |                  |
>              |       2001       |
>             *|     *  *  *      | *
>    _________)/\\_//(\/(/\)/\//\/|_)_______
>
> (Yes, I changed the killed by line...)
>
> -- David
>
> » *LOL* well, I won't date you too much then.....I was in the
> single digits
> » when i was playing Hack and NetHack too.....but it was in the 80's
> »
> » For those interested, Netchack IS still avaliable....:) Those crazy
> » university programmers are still putting out new versions....
> » www.nethack.org
> »
> » You die...--More--
> »
> » Joseph A. Smith
> »
> » > -----Original Message-----
> » > From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> » > [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of David Smith - NT
> » > Interoperability Engineer
> » > Sent: October 10, 2001 4:35 PM
> » > To: FEISTFANS-L
> » > Subject: Re: Zork - This topic really dates us!
> » >
> » >
> » > Nethack? Yup, remember it well :) Also Hack, which NetHack was
> » > based on, and the
> » > original Rogue, which Hack was based on. I'm not really showing
> » > my age too badly
> » > there though... when I first played Rogue (late '70's) my age was
> » > still in the
> » > single digit range :)
> » >
> » > Just to kinda tie this into the Zork thread. Does anybody else
> » > remember the true
> » > significance behind "xyzzy"?
> » >
> » > -- David Smith
> » >
> » > » The topic may date us, but at least we aren't flaming
> » > » each other over it...;)
> » > »
> » > » I remember playing Zork on an old 286 with a green TTY
> » > » screen....fun stuff that.
> » > »
> » > » Anybody here remember Nethack?
> » > »
> » > » Joseph A. Smith
>



_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com



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Subject: OT: Something Funny
Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 09:57:16 -0700
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Jason Martin" <res0b95g@verizon.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: OT: Something Funny
Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 09:57:16 -0700
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Ok, this for fans of Kevin Smith movies and star wars you need to look at
this link done by some people who had way to much time on their hands. If
you loved Clerks then this should be right up your alley.  I thought it was
rather hiliarious..  I'm not sure how long it will take to load off a modem,
but it didn't take to terribly long to load on my end.
http://outpost.thewarbird.com:443/tc_aos/trooperclerksanime.swf

Jason




"Mas Tequila!"
       Red Vodoo- Sammy Hagar



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References: <CKEDKEIMLMHNIIAFIHGPKEHNCDAA.diamondjoesmith@yahoo.com>
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Earl Borah" <earl@ncn.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 10:19:03 -0700
Subject: RE: Zork - This topic really dates us!
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> Anyone ever play LORD?
> 
> bbs game?
> 
> I'm the process of making a Delphi clone for an assignment


Years ago. The author used to log into our system occasionally -- he 
lived right here in Salem, Oregon (not sure if he's still around 
here, or moved on...haven't heard anything about him in years).

It's still in use on many BBS systems out there, too. Personally, I 
found it tiring after a while...but it was an interesting diversion. 
Now if someone could come up with a well-written HTML-based version 
of it, THAT would have a chance at catching on again.



---
  "All men are moral. Only their neighbors are not."
  - character from a John Steinbeck novel (I forget which character/novel)



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Subject: HE and Wine
Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 14:26:06 -0500
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Dinkel, William M" <wdinkel@ku.edu>
To: "'feistfans-l@cornell.edu'" (FEISTFANS-L) <feistfans-l@cornell.edu>
Subject: HE and Wine
Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 14:26:06 -0500
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Ray- 

Delurking here.  It's been more than a few years since I've posted, but I 
still read the list daily.  Those AOL message board days seem so long ago...


Anyway, you've done it once again.  Honoured Enemy is fantastic.  Looking 
forward to the next one, as always. 

And a wine question: are there any Cotes du Rhone and/or Alsace Riesling 
wines that you are particularly fond of? 

Thanks for your time. 

Will Dinkel 



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 13:54:11 -0700
Subject: Re: HE and Wine
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Thursday, October 11, 2001, at 12:26 PM, Dinkel, William M wrote:

> Ray-
>
> Delurking here.  It's been more than a few years since I've posted, 
> but I
> still read the list daily.  Those AOL message board days seem so long 
> ago...
>
>
> Anyway, you've done it once again.  Honoured Enemy is fantastic.  
> Looking
> forward to the next one, as always.

Thanks.  Joel and I should be through 1st draft on the next one by next 
week, and I'm making progress on Talon.

>
> And a wine question: are there any Cotes du Rhone and/or Alsace Riesling
> wines that you are particularly fond of?

I'm not a huge fan of Alsace or German Riesling.  As for Cotes du Rhone, 
I like all the usual suspects, from Guigal to Beaucastle to . . . well, 
just about all of them.  I enjoy Rhone wines very much, from Cotes du 
Rote to Hermatage to Chateau-nuf-du-Pape.  Enjoy the whites, too.

Best, R.E.F.

----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 07:38:30 +1000 (EST)
From: David Smith - NT Interoperability Engineer <David.M.Smith@Sun.COM>
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Zork - xyzzy
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

» Just to kinda tie this into the Zork thread. Does
» anybody else remember 
» the true 
» significance behind "xyzzy"?
» 
» -- David Smith
» 
» David, I remember the string, I've used it as a
» password more than once. Show off your superior memory
» and tell me what it was in Zork.
» 
» Fred

'Fraid I can't tell you what, if anything, it was in Zork. I never really played 
much Zork.

It's from a game that Zork was based on called Adventure (or adv in some parts) 
which is of the same vintage as the original Rogue (->Hack->NetHack), hence the 
"kinda" tie in <G>. In Adventure xyzzy was a magic word which you could use to 
move yourself to a particular place.

-- David Smith

P.S. It was also later used as the enabler for the cheat mode in MineSweeper in 
one of the Windows OS's :)



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From: "Joseph A. Benckert" <jbenckert@jersey.net>
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Subject: Re: Zork - xyzzy
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Joseph A. Benckert" <jbenckert@jersey.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Zork - xyzzy
Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 18:00:19 -0400
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I think it was the "quit" code.  My Operating Systems instructor makes us
use that code as input from the user to end our programming assignments.

Joey

----- Original Message -----
From: "Fred Collington" <fcolling@yahoo.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2001 9:05 AM
Subject: Zork - xyzzy


>
> Just to kinda tie this into the Zork thread. Does
> anybody else remember
> the true
> significance behind "xyzzy"?
>
> -- David Smith
>
> David, I remember the string, I've used it as a
> password more than once. Show off your superior memory
> and tell me what it was in Zork.
>
> Fred
>
>
>
>
> =====
> Fred Collington
> Oracle DBA
> Naval Air Warfare Center, Training Systems Division
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals.
> http://personals.yahoo.com
>
>
>



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From: Allan Mills <milla@css.com.au>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" (FEISTFANS-L) <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: NetHack (Was RE: Zork)
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*** EOOH ***
From: Allan Mills <milla@css.com.au>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" (FEISTFANS-L) <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: NetHack (Was RE: Zork)
Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 08:39:26 +1000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

 IIRC there was a "feature" with explore mode that could cause that to not
work. I think it was when you used a scroll of genocide to wipe out your own
race. You could indicate that you didn't want to die but it would keep
prompting you because you couldn't continue to live either.

 Allan

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Diamond Joe [mailto:diamondjoesmith@yahoo.com]
> Sent: Friday, October 12, 2001 1:33 AM
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Subject: NetHack (Was RE: Zork)
> 
> 
> You die...die?[y/n]n
> Ok, so you don't die.
> 
> Explore mode made for the most fun. Not very challenging, but fun...:)
> 
> Joseph A. Smith
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of David Smith - NT
> > Interoperability Engineer
> > Sent: October 10, 2001 11:36 PM
> > To: FEISTFANS-L
> > Subject: RE: Zork - This topic really dates us!
> >
> >
> >                   ----------
> >                  /          \
> >                 /    REST    \
> >                /      IN      \
> >               /     PEACE      \
> >              /                  \
> >              |      David       |
> >              |       0 Au       |
> >              |   killed by a    |
> >              |      Joseph      |
> >              |                  |
> >              |                  |
> >              |       2001       |
> >             *|     *  *  *      | *
> >    _________)/\\_//(\/(/\)/\//\/|_)_______
> >
> > (Yes, I changed the killed by line...)
> >
> > -- David
> >
> > » *LOL* well, I won't date you too much then.....I was in the
> > single digits
> > » when i was playing Hack and NetHack too.....but it was in the 80's
> > »
> > » For those interested, Netchack IS still avaliable....:) 
> Those crazy
> > » university programmers are still putting out new versions....
> > » www.nethack.org
> > »
> > » You die...--More--
> > »
> > » Joseph A. Smith
> > »
> > » > -----Original Message-----
> > » > From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > » > [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of 
> David Smith - NT
> > » > Interoperability Engineer
> > » > Sent: October 10, 2001 4:35 PM
> > » > To: FEISTFANS-L
> > » > Subject: Re: Zork - This topic really dates us!
> > » >
> > » >
> > » > Nethack? Yup, remember it well :) Also Hack, which NetHack was
> > » > based on, and the
> > » > original Rogue, which Hack was based on. I'm not really showing
> > » > my age too badly
> > » > there though... when I first played Rogue (late '70's) 
> my age was
> > » > still in the
> > » > single digit range :)
> > » >
> > » > Just to kinda tie this into the Zork thread. Does anybody else
> > » > remember the true
> > » > significance behind "xyzzy"?
> > » >
> > » > -- David Smith
> > » >
> > » > » The topic may date us, but at least we aren't flaming
> > » > » each other over it...;)
> > » > »
> > » > » I remember playing Zork on an old 286 with a green TTY
> > » > » screen....fun stuff that.
> > » > »
> > » > » Anybody here remember Nethack?
> > » > »
> > » > » Joseph A. Smith
> >
> 
> 
> 
> _________________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
> 
> 



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From: "paul_dutton" <paul_dutton@madasafish.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Zork - xyzzy
Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 00:00:02 +0100
Message-ID: <000401c152a8$7567ba00$229cbc3e@mcc.ac.uk>
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*** EOOH ***
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: "paul_dutton" <paul_dutton@madasafish.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Zork - xyzzy
Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 00:00:02 +0100
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

xyzzy was something to do with cheating in MS Minesweeper?
Paul

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Fred Collington
> Sent: 11 October 2001 14:05
> To: FEISTFANS-L
> Subject: Zork - xyzzy
> 
> 
> 
> Just to kinda tie this into the Zork thread. Does
> anybody else remember 
> the true 
> significance behind "xyzzy"?
> 
> -- David Smith
> 
> David, I remember the string, I've used it as a
> password more than once. Show off your superior memory
> and tell me what it was in Zork.
> 
> Fred
> 
> 
> 
> 
> =====
> Fred Collington
> Oracle DBA
> Naval Air Warfare Center, Training Systems Division
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals.
> http://personals.yahoo.com
> 
> 



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Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 20:43:23 -0400 (EDT)
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From: Joseph Smith <diamondjoesmith@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: NetHack (Was RE: Zork)
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
In-Reply-To: <E3A4AA1DA7B41849A632450233B5423A177F2F@css01.css.com.au>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 20:43:23 -0400 (EDT)
From: Joseph Smith <diamondjoesmith@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: NetHack (Was RE: Zork)
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

*L* well, that's the price you pay for having fun
sometimes.

Always save BEFORE you genocide...just in case...;)

Joseph A. Smith

--- Allan Mills <milla@css.com.au> wrote:
>  IIRC there was a "feature" with explore mode that
> could cause that to not
> work. I think it was when you used a scroll of
> genocide to wipe out your own
> race. You could indicate that you didn't want to die
> but it would keep
> prompting you because you couldn't continue to live
> either.
> 
>  Allan
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Diamond Joe
> [mailto:diamondjoesmith@yahoo.com]
> > Sent: Friday, October 12, 2001 1:33 AM
> > To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > Subject: NetHack (Was RE: Zork)
> > 
> > 
> > You die...die?[y/n]n
> > Ok, so you don't die.
> > 
> > Explore mode made for the most fun. Not very
> challenging, but fun...:)
> > 
> > Joseph A. Smith
> > 
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > > [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf
> Of David Smith - NT
> > > Interoperability Engineer
> > > Sent: October 10, 2001 11:36 PM
> > > To: FEISTFANS-L
> > > Subject: RE: Zork - This topic really dates us!
> > >
> > >
> > >                   ----------
> > >                  /          \
> > >                 /    REST    \
> > >                /      IN      \
> > >               /     PEACE      \
> > >              /                  \
> > >              |      David       |
> > >              |       0 Au       |
> > >              |   killed by a    |
> > >              |      Joseph      |
> > >              |                  |
> > >              |                  |
> > >              |       2001       |
> > >             *|     *  *  *      | *
> > >    _________)/\\_//(\/(/\)/\//\/|_)_______
> > >
> > > (Yes, I changed the killed by line...)
> > >
> > > -- David
> > >
> > > » *LOL* well, I won't date you too much
> then.....I was in the
> > > single digits
> > > » when i was playing Hack and NetHack
> too.....but it was in the 80's
> > > »
> > > » For those interested, Netchack IS still
> avaliable....:) 
> > Those crazy
> > > » university programmers are still putting out
> new versions....
> > > » www.nethack.org
> > > »
> > > » You die...--More--
> > > »
> > > » Joseph A. Smith
> > > »
> > > » > -----Original Message-----
> > > » > From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > > » > [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On
> Behalf Of 
> > David Smith - NT
> > > » > Interoperability Engineer
> > > » > Sent: October 10, 2001 4:35 PM
> > > » > To: FEISTFANS-L
> > > » > Subject: Re: Zork - This topic really dates
> us!
> > > » >
> > > » >
> > > » > Nethack? Yup, remember it well :) Also Hack,
> which NetHack was
> > > » > based on, and the
> > > » > original Rogue, which Hack was based on. I'm
> not really showing
> > > » > my age too badly
> > > » > there though... when I first played Rogue
> (late '70's) 
> > my age was
> > > » > still in the
> > > » > single digit range :)
> > > » >
> > > » > Just to kinda tie this into the Zork thread.
> Does anybody else
> > > » > remember the true
> > > » > significance behind "xyzzy"?
> > > » >
> > > » > -- David Smith
> > > » >
> > > » > » The topic may date us, but at least we
> aren't flaming
> > > » > » each other over it...;)
> > > » > »
> > > » > » I remember playing Zork on an old 286 with
> a green TTY
> > > » > » screen....fun stuff that.
> > > » > »
> > > » > » Anybody here remember Nethack?
> > > » > »
> > > » > » Joseph A. Smith
> > >
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >
> _________________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Get your free @yahoo.com address at
> http://mail.yahoo.com
> > 
> > 
> 


_______________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca



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From: "Firesight" <wolfriderfiresight@hotmail.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
References: <Pine.OSF.4.30.0110111908530.30969-100000@student.uq.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Zork - This topic really dates us!
Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 08:51:02 -0300
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From: "Firesight" <wolfriderfiresight@hotmail.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Zork - This topic really dates us!
Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 08:51:02 -0300
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That's another game that's come up in the blind gamers community, about 6
months to a year ago.

bbs's and all that are coming back!  We're gonna bring'em back dammit!

*-) Firesigh t *-)

----- Original Message -----
From: "Darragh Murray" <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2001 6:09 AM
Subject: RE: Zork - This topic really dates us!


>
> Anyone ever play LORD?
>
> bbs game?
>
> I'm the process of making a Delphi clone for an assignment
>
> > *L* personally my favourite was editing hack.cfg so that i could have
> > whatever kind of familiar/fruit/names i wished....
> >
> > The wand of wishing was the best. Wish for a blessed ring of metamorphosis
> > and a blessed ring of control metamorphosis. Become a female dragon of any
> > kind and you could create as many little minions as you wanted for
> > familiars...:)
> >
> > Joseph A. Smith
> > (I think i gotta go play it now...*L*)
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > > [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Carl Dershem
> > > Sent: October 10, 2001 6:34 PM
> > > To: FEISTFANS-L
> > > Subject: Re: Zork - This topic really dates us!
> > >
> > >
> > > David Smith - NT Interoperability Engineer wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Nethack? Yup, remember it well :) Also Hack, which NetHack was
> > > based on, and the
> > > > original Rogue, which Hack was based on. I'm not really showing
> > > my age too badly
> > > > there though... when I first played Rogue (late '70's) my age
> > > was still in the
> > > > single digit range :)
> > >
> > > You're taking me back to my navy days.  Used to play HACK a lot, but had
> > > a bad habit of losing the dog very early on.
> > >
> > > cd
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
> >
> >
>
> Thanks
> Darragh
> -=-=
> www.iamtheporkfireman.com
> [Email]: s356179@student.uq.edu.au [ICQ]: 114283262
>
>



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*** EOOH ***
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To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Zork - This topic really dates us!
Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 08:47:26 -0300
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I'm familiar with Rogue and Nethack, within the blind gaming community -they
are old faves!

You bring up xyzzy.  Are you familiar with xyzzynews?

*-) Firesight *-)

----- Original Message -----
From: "David Smith - NT Interoperability Engineer" <David.M.Smith@Sun.COM>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2001 6:35 PM
Subject: Re: Zork - This topic really dates us!


> Nethack? Yup, remember it well :) Also Hack, which NetHack was based on, and the
> original Rogue, which Hack was based on. I'm not really showing my age too badly
> there though... when I first played Rogue (late '70's) my age was still in the
> single digit range :)
>
> Just to kinda tie this into the Zork thread. Does anybody else remember the true
> significance behind "xyzzy"?
>
> -- David Smith
>
> » The topic may date us, but at least we aren't flaming
> » each other over it...;)
> »
> » I remember playing Zork on an old 286 with a green TTY
> » screen....fun stuff that.
> »
> » Anybody here remember Nethack?
> »
> » Joseph A. Smith
> »
> » --- Firesight <wolfriderfiresight@hotmail.com> wrote:
> » > Hmmm...
> » >
> » > It dates us does it?  Wasn't before too long ago,
> » > that the Zork games, were
> » > the best thing since sliced bread, for the community
> » > I hang out in.  No, we
> » > are not all flakes, or hang out in t he past (by our
> » > own choice).
> » >
> » > Those great Interactive Fiction titles, were the
> » > only thing at one time,
> » > that was available to the blind computer gamer.  So
> » > much has changed in the
> » > past 5 years...and I've been right there, watching
> » > it all.  On the inside,
> » > the outside, and covering the inside from the
> » > outside.
> » >
> » > *-) Firesight *-)
> » >
> » > ----- Original Message -----
> » > From: "Fred Collington" <fcolling@yahoo.com>
> » > To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> » > Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2001 9:13 AM
> » > Subject: Zork - This topic really dates us!
> » >
> » >
> » > > " Phil never go the perfect score.  I never got
> » > the
> » > > perfect score.
> » > > But I did manage to avoid the Hideous Grue.
> » > >
> » > >  Best, R.E.F."
> » > >
> » > > Was there any way out of the maze? I remeber being
> » > > trapped there and never getting out. I tested it
> » > > during other sessions taking one move in and one
> » > > reversed move out and that also failed. A 'tar
> » > pit'
> » > > type of maze perhaps?
> » > >
> » > > Cheers,
> » > > Fred
> » > >
> » > >
> » > >
> » > >
> » > >
> » > > __________________________________________________
> » > > Do You Yahoo!?
> » > > Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals.
> » > > http://personals.yahoo.com
> » > >
> » > >
> » >
> »
> »
> » _______________________________________________________
> » Do You Yahoo!?
> » Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca
> »
>
>



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From: "Steve Weghorn" <pelvislives@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Two questions for Mr. Feist
Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 09:21:02 -0400
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From: "Steve Weghorn" <pelvislives@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Two questions for Mr. Feist
Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 09:21:02 -0400
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Spoiler for K.T.B. and The Empire trilogy
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Mr. Feist I was recently rereading both the Empire Trilogy and
B.A.K. and I was curious about some things.

First I was wondering why on the map of Kelewan it has the Minwanabi
estates marked as Acoma, with a little thing below it saying formally
Minwanabi, when Mara doesn't even gain control of it until Servant.
Was this Ms. Wurts or your idea or was it just something the person
who made the map decided to do.
 
Second awhile ago people were asking you if we would ever see Owyn
Belefote again and I thought that you said no but his children might
be in one of the upcoming books, so I was wondering if we would see
any of Owyn's children in the new books.  If I am mistaken about you
saying this then I apologize.

                                                              Thanks
                                                         Steve Weghorn

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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu, FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: LAR <lds627@home.com>
Subject: Re: HE and Wine
In-Reply-To: <1F2E0FDE-BE8A-11D5-8F65-003065A8A644@bittersea.com>
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Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 07:16:23 -0700
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu, FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: LAR <lds627@home.com>
Subject: Re: HE and Wine
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At 01:54 PM 10/11/01 -0700, Raymond Feist wrote:

>>And a wine question: are there any Cotes du Rhone and/or Alsace Riesling
>>wines that you are particularly fond of?
>
>I'm not a huge fan of Alsace or German Riesling.  As for Cotes du Rhone, I 
>like all the usual suspects, from Guigal to Beaucastle to . . . well, just 
>about all of them.  I enjoy Rhone wines very much, from Cotes du Rote to 
>Hermatage to Chateau-nuf-du-Pape.  Enjoy the whites, too.
>
>Best, R.E.F.

Ahhhh, Chateau-neuf-du-Pape that wine brings back very fond memories. It 
was 1980 camping with a friend in upstate NY. Us, two bottles of Bouchard 
et Fils 1978 Chateau-nuf-du-pape and the two lifeguards we had picked up 
that afternoon at the beach. Personally I STILL consider 78 the best year <G>.

Larry



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Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 08:50:44 -0700
Subject: Re: Two questions for Mr. Feist
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 08:50:44 -0700
Subject: Re: Two questions for Mr. Feist
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Friday, October 12, 2001, at 06:21 AM, Steve Weghorn wrote:

> Spoiler for K.T.B. and The Empire trilogy
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
> Mr. Feist I was recently rereading both the Empire Trilogy and B.A.K. 
> and I was curious about some things.
> First I was wondering why on the map of Kelewan it has the Minwanabi 
> estates marked as Acoma, with a little thing below it saying formally 
> Minwanabi, when Mara doesn't even gain control of it until Servant.  
> Was this Ms. Wurts or your idea or was it just something the person who 
> made the map decided to do.

It was a joint decision, given we knew only one map would be drawn for 
all three books.

>  
> Second awhile ago people were asking you if we would ever see Owyn 
> Belefote again and I thought that you said no but his children might be 
> in one of the upcoming books, so I was wondering if we would see any of 
> Owyn's children in the new books.  If I am mistaken about you saying 
> this then I apologize.

That was about Pug, actually.  I don't know if Pug will put in an 
appearance in Conclave, but his sons do.

Best, R.E.F.

----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.

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Subject: Re: Two questions for Mr. Feist
Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2001 12:57:58 +1000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "A Irving" <aignome@dingoblue.net.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Two questions for Mr. Feist
Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2001 12:57:58 +1000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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>From: Raymond Feist
>To: FEISTFANS-L
>Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2001 1:50 AM
>Possible spoiler for SerpentWar...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>That was about Pug, actually. I don't know if Pug will put in an appearance
>in Conclave, but his sons do.
>
>Best, R.E.F.

Given that Pug had some natural talent which Macros unlocked when Pug was a
baby and that Miranda is Macros' daughter, and Macros obviously has a lot of
power, would the children of Miranda and Pug be as strong, or stronger than
Pug? Will I get a WUTNB.... or have you not thought about that yet?
CIAO,
            Aaron

http://www.hallofworlds.net/kerr/main.php
http://www.nightshadow.co.uk



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Subject: hey ray???
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From: Loremastr2@aol.com
Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2001 07:20:42 EDT
Subject: hey ray???
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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I have been out of the loop awhile when is the new book(s) due out in the U.S.
                      thanks 
                        jimmy

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From: Paavo Kakko <joeru@mbnet.fi>
Subject: Re: hey ray???
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Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2001 15:32:11 +0200
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Paavo Kakko <joeru@mbnet.fi>
Subject: Re: hey ray???
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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At 07:20 13.10.2001 EDT, you wrote:
>I have been out of the loop awhile when is the new book(s) due out in the
>U.S. 
>                     thanks  
>                       jimmy 

 Honoured Enemy does not have a publisher in US yet and it could be a long
time before it will get published. At least some of the people on the list
living in North America have ordered it through amazon.co.uk from UK, and I
can't recall anyone reporting of troubles with the shipping (drenched book,
or such).

 -- Paavo Kakko

 "Again I hear you piping, for I know the tune so well,
  You rouse the heart to wander and be free,
  Tho' where you learned your music, not the God of song can tell,
  For you pipe the open highway and the sea."
                       .. Robert Louis Stevenson; The Piper ..



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Subject: Re: The Legend of the Prophet and the Assassin (Sort of OT)
Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 23:17:56 -0300
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From: "Firesight" <wolfriderfiresight@hotmail.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: The Legend of the Prophet and the Assassin (Sort of OT)
Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 23:17:56 -0300
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Hello,

Are there anymore or these supposed "similarities?"  Could it be challenged
in court?  Does anyone really care?  You're right: it does sound quite
similar, and perhaps it is a tribute fro Mr. Feist's genius.

*-) Firesight *-)

----- Original Message -----
From: "Al Solo" <solo.nova@btinternet.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2001 7:19 PM
Subject: The Legend of the Prophet and the Assassin (Sort of OT)


> I just read a review for this game, and I find a few similarities to Ray's
> work. Probably coincidence, but who knows?
>
> Firstly, the name - "The Legend of the Prophet and the Assassin", bares a
> strange resemblance to the name "Profit and the Grey Assassin."
>
> Secondly, according to the review "You play through the eyes of Ay-Sayf the
> assassin in his search for Simon the prophet." Ok, I know this is poor
> example, but Simon is similar to Simion, in Profit and the Grey Assassin.
>
> And lastly, Part 2 of the game is called "The Secrets of Alamut." Alamut is
> very similar to LaMut.
>
> Anyway, that's it. Just thought I'd show you all this. Maybe the game
> creators are fans of Ray? <G>
>
> Al
>
>



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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Al Solo <solo.nova@btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: The Legend of the Prophet and the Assassin (Sort of OT)
In-Reply-To: <OE6269aZbLAX3cf3edn0000e4ae@hotmail.com>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2001 15:40:38 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Al Solo <solo.nova@btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: The Legend of the Prophet and the Assassin (Sort of OT)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I didn't suppose that anyone would care. I just felt like pointing it out.

Al

At 23:17 12/10/2001 -0300, you wrote:
>Hello,
>
>Are there anymore or these supposed "similarities?"  Could it be challenged
>in court?  Does anyone really care?  You're right: it does sound quite
>similar, and perhaps it is a tribute fro Mr. Feist's genius.
>
>*-) Firesight *-)
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Al Solo" <solo.nova@btinternet.com>
>To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
>Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2001 7:19 PM
>Subject: The Legend of the Prophet and the Assassin (Sort of OT)
>
>
> > I just read a review for this game, and I find a few similarities to Ray's
> > work. Probably coincidence, but who knows?
> >
> > Firstly, the name - "The Legend of the Prophet and the Assassin", bares a
> > strange resemblance to the name "Profit and the Grey Assassin."
> >
> > Secondly, according to the review "You play through the eyes of Ay-Sayf
>the
> > assassin in his search for Simon the prophet." Ok, I know this is poor
> > example, but Simon is similar to Simion, in Profit and the Grey Assassin.
> >
> > And lastly, Part 2 of the game is called "The Secrets of Alamut." Alamut
>is
> > very similar to LaMut.
> >
> > Anyway, that's it. Just thought I'd show you all this. Maybe the game
> > creators are fans of Ray? <G>
> >
> > Al
> >
> >



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From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Testing to see if I was bounced or if you folk are just really really quiet today.
Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2001 09:59:59 -0500
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This just a test, this is only a test...if this had actually been a
list bounce you would not have gotten this message.

James A. J. Young
jajy@earthlink.net
http://home.earthlink.net/~jajy/



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Subject: Re: hey ray???
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From: "Jason Martin" <res0b95g@verizon.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: hey ray???
Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2001 16:34:46 -0700
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Paavo Kakko" <joeru@mbnet.fi>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2001 6:32 AM
Subject: Re: hey ray???


> At 07:20 13.10.2001 EDT, you wrote:
> >I have been out of the loop awhile when is the new book(s) due out in the
> U.S.
> >                     thanks
> >                       jimmy
>
>  Honoured Enemy does not have a publisher in US yet and it could be a long
> time before it will get published. At least some of the people on the list
> living in North America have ordered it through amazon.co.uk from UK, and I
> can't recall anyone reporting of troubles with the shipping (drenched book,
> or such).
Actually mine was totally drenched.  Looked like the box was left in a lake
for a day.  Not all of the book was bad, but I was  still able to read it.
I did email Amazon and they sent another copy that day.  So I now have two
copies of the book =)   So their was one problem, but nothing major and it
was replaced very quickly.  Kudos to Amazon.UK.  I know I will order the
next book from them assuming it doesn't get published here.

Jason

>
>  -- Paavo Kakko
>
>  "Again I hear you piping, for I know the tune so well,
>   You rouse the heart to wander and be free,
>   Tho' where you learned your music, not the God of song can tell,
>   For you pipe the open highway and the sea."
>                        .. Robert Louis Stevenson; The Piper ..
>



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From: "kevin" <kevykev@sbcglobal.net>
To: "feistfans" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2001 17:09:44 -0700
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*** EOOH ***
From: "kevin" <kevykev@sbcglobal.net>
To: "feistfans" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2001 17:09:44 -0700
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

hi 
this is my second message the first was rejected because i used the
wrong e-mail account. well what i wrote was that i loved rage of a
demon king because of the intensity of the writing. i felt like an
eyewitness to the events written. tear of the gods i felt was hasty,
not inferior in any way but vastly different from past books where
there is a lot of plot building and depth. an example is the
acknowledgment to the revised edition in magician:apprentice,master. i
look forward to the release of krondor:the crawler 
     
                  later everyone,kev

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*** EOOH ***
From: mdmaguire@att.net
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Two questions for Mr. Feist
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 03:48:22 +0000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


S
P
O
I
L
E
R

S
P
A
C
E

> > Second awhile ago people were asking you if we would ever see Owyn 
> > Belefote again and I thought that you said no but his children might be 
> > in one of the upcoming books, so I was wondering if we would see any of 
> > Owyn's children in the new books.  If I am mistaken about you saying 
> > this then I apologize.
> 
> That was about Pug, actually.  I don't know if Pug will put in an 
> appearance in Conclave, but his sons do.
> 
> Best, R.E.F.


Sons!!  I only knew about one. (Magnus?)  Is this a typo, or a slip, or a freebie?

--Matt



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Subject: Re: Two questions for Mr. Feist
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 00:20:44 -0700
Subject: Re: Two questions for Mr. Feist
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Sunday, October 14, 2001, at 08:48 PM, mdmaguire@att.net wrote:

>
> S
> P
> O
> I
> L
> E
> R
>
> S
> P
> A
> C
> E
>
>>> Second awhile ago people were asking you if we would ever see Owyn
>>> Belefote again and I thought that you said no but his children might 
>>> be
>>> in one of the upcoming books, so I was wondering if we would see any 
>>> of
>>> Owyn's children in the new books.† If I am mistaken about you saying
>>> this then I apologize.
>>
>> That was about Pug, actually.  I don't know if Pug will put in an
>> appearance in Conclave, but his sons do.
>>
>> Best, R.E.F.
>
>
> Sons!!  I only knew about one. (Magnus?)  Is this a typo, or a slip, or 
> a freebie?
>
> --Matt
>
>
>
>
Consider it a hint.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: "Scott Hendrick" <SHendrick@cqg.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: to list manager
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 11:41:15 -0600
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

ToFEISTFANS list manager:

Is there something you can do about this 'jimmy' guy? He's sent this same
exact message about 20 times now.

Thnks,
Scott Hendrick


-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On
>Behalf Of Loremastr2@aol.com
>Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2001 5:21 AM
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: hey ray???
>
>
>
>  I have been out of the loop awhile when is the new book(s) due out in the
>U.S.
>			thanks
>			  jimmy

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From: "Chris Smith" <cjs94@zepler.org.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 20:14:04 +0100
Subject: Re: Bored, so Brad and I are in a flame war.
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Chris Smith" <cjs94@zepler.org.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 20:14:04 +0100
Subject: Re: Bored, so Brad and I are in a flame war.
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Priority: normal
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

On 28 Sep 2001, at 11:07, Richard Williamson wrote:

> Actually, I'm middle aged, rely on the correct execution
> of code written to specifications, am an excellent programmer
> with code I've written running in space.  I've ported
> a complex real-time operating system to a computer architecture
> that you've never even heard of.  I'm the sole inventor of
> software that has a patent pending on it.

rip,

I'm curious about the software you invented and I'm in the mood for a 
success story at the moment. Would you care to tell me more about it 
and perhaps, if you're of a mind, give your trumpet a good blow?

Chris.


--
Chris Smith
Work: chris.smith@tfbplc.co.uk     Home: cjs94@zepler.org.uk
PGP Key available from public key servers; Key ID 0x8586B4B2
"Veni, vidi, velcro." - "I came, I saw, I stuck around."



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References: <KIEGKEMGEIBGMCKAGLMFCEEMDAAA.SHendrick@cqg.com>
Subject: HTMaiL (again)
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 14:19:09 -0500
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Darren McClung" <d@dwmc.org>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: HTMaiL (again)
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 14:19:09 -0500
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Everyone who is using Outlook Express, please follow these instructions.
There's no reason why we can't all just send in plain text.

http://helpdesk.rootsweb.com/help/html-off.html

Darren

>------=_NextPart_000_0098_01C1556E.4C0B3150
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><BODY>
><DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
>class=3D017453917-15102001>ToFEISTFANS list manager:</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
>class=3D017453917-15102001></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
><DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =
>class=3D017453917-15102001>Is=20
>there something you can do about this 'jimmy' guy? He's sent this same =
>exact=20
>message about 20 times now.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
>
>blah blah blah...
>
>

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From: "kevin" <kevykev@sbcglobal.net>
To: "feistfans" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Cc: "raymond feist" <feistfans-l@cornell.edu>
Subject: the future of tomas
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From: "kevin" <kevykev@sbcglobal.net>
To: "feistfans" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Cc: "raymond feist" <feistfans-l@cornell.edu>
Subject: the future of tomas
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 14:57:50 -0700
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mr.feist 

without giving away too much will we read more on tomas and do you
have a greater role for him

                     kevin etter

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Subject: Re: Bored, so Brad and I are in a flame war.
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*** EOOH ***
From: Brad_A_Krahe@allegiance.com.au
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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 09:14:05 +1000
Subject: Re: Bored, so Brad and I are in a flame war.
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Chris,

I must have deleted his email without reading it when getting back from
leave the other week. I'd also like to hear more from our inventor, maybe
we can tell our grandkids one day - hay! I was on a mailing list with that
guy :)

Regards,

Brad Krahe
SAP Business & Support Consultant
Allegiance Systems



>
>"Chris Smith" <cjs94@zepler.org.uk> on 16/10/2001 05:14:04
>
>Please respond to FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>
>To:   FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
>cc:    (bcc: Brad A Krahe/HCS)
>Subject:  Re: Bored, so Brad and I are in a flame war.
>
>
>
>
>On 28 Sep 2001, at 11:07, Richard Williamson wrote:
>
>> Actually, I'm middle aged, rely on the correct execution
>> of code written to specifications, am an excellent programmer
>> with code I've written running in space.  I've ported
>> a complex real-time operating system to a computer architecture
>> that you've never even heard of.  I'm the sole inventor of
>> software that has a patent pending on it.
>
>rip,
>
>I'm curious about the software you invented and I'm in the mood for a
>success story at the moment. Would you care to tell me more about it
>and perhaps, if you're of a mind, give your trumpet a good blow?
>
>Chris.
>
>
>--
>Chris Smith
>Work: chris.smith@tfbplc.co.uk     Home: cjs94@zepler.org.uk
>PGP Key available from public key servers; Key ID 0x8586B4B2
>"Veni, vidi, velcro." - "I came, I saw, I stuck around."

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Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 18:05:53 -0700
Subject: Re: the future of tomas
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 18:05:53 -0700
Subject: Re: the future of tomas
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Monday, October 15, 2001, at 02:57 PM, kevin wrote:

> mr.feist
>  
> without giving away too much will we read more on tomas and do you have 
> a greater role for him
>  
>                      kevin etter
>
>

Eventually.  At present, though, I don't have any immediate plans for 
Tomas.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.

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From: "Doug Triplett, Superhero in Training !!!" <trippy@dougtriplett.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20011009091617.00a48be0@pop.cox-internet.com>
Subject: Re: list history
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 21:09:14 -0400
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Doug Triplett, Superhero in Training !!!" <trippy@dougtriplett.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: list history
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 21:09:14 -0400
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I think I signed up back in 93. I am not sure. I dont have email going
back that far because I had to store it on university computers and
never got to take it offline.

Doug
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: Nat Russo 
>To: FEISTFANS-L 
>Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2001 10:17 AM
>Subject: Re: list history
>
>
>Hey Doug,
>
>What year did the list begin?  I signed up in '95 IIRC, but had a two year 
>hiatus between '99 - '01.
>
>Nat Russo
>
>At 05:57 AM 10/9/01 -0400, you wrote:
>>I am the one that got Ray to join the list.
>>
>>I found the list online one night. I dont remeber how. and joined up. The
>>discussion was pretty good.
>>
>>I was using AOL at this time. AOL has a Ray discussion board on it and Ray
>>would post on it. I emailed Ray and told him about about the list and how to
>>subscibe.
>>
>>Soon after that Ray joined the list and has been around since then.
>>
>>Some other History:
>>
>>Mike Hoffman was the man who started the list. He had to leave after a while
>>at which point Dan Lorey took over and got our list on the Cornell Servers
>>(which we love to try to overload :) )
>>
>>I have been on the list since almost the beginning (except for mysteriously
>>getting dropped occasionaly). There are a few others on here that have been
>>on as long as I have. There are a few that have been on longer. Many of the
>>oldest members dont post much anymore but we ar estill here.
>>
>>I hope this helps.
>>
>>
>>
>>Doug Triplett

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From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: Bored, so Brad and I are in a flame war.
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 09:09:04 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: Bored, so Brad and I are in a flame war.
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

At 08:14 PM 10/15/01 +0100, Chris Smith wrote:
>On 28 Sep 2001, at 11:07, Richard Williamson wrote:
>
>> that you've never even heard of.  I'm the sole inventor of
>> software that has a patent pending on it.
>
>I'm curious about the software you invented and I'm in the mood for a 
>success story at the moment. Would you care to tell me more about it 
>and perhaps, if you're of a mind, give your trumpet a good blow?

It is a method for recovering from the absence of  
arbitrary transmission media.

Can't go into specifics, sorry.  The IP lawyers have been 
pretty adamant about that.  I'll keep your address in mind,
though, and once the packet has been accepted by the 
Patent authority (any day now, It Says Here), I'll forward
you the patent request.  

Patent lawyers live in a world of their own, btw.  

Also, ICYAI, VxWorks is back to Mars, in Mars Odyssey, 
which has an arrival date of 24 October (Wednesday after 
next).
http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/odyssey/overview/index.html

Given the problems with the last two*, the jury is still 
out on if this is another Pathfinder or another Damage 
Control PR Exercise.

Richard  

* 1) Human error.  JPL asked the manufacturer of the maneuvering
thrusters how much force they imparted.  The manufacturer reported
a value (not a value and its units, just the value).  JPL 
used the value for its calculations and sent some commands.
Unfortunately, the units sent were in imperial, and the computer
was told to expect metric.  The thrusters were turned on for
too long a time in the final correction, and the probe hit the
atmosphere at the wrong angle.  Probably burned up.

2) Human error.  During the testing phase, they tested the
landing legs (they popped out under spring tension and locked
in position).  The landing legs had sensors built in so that
when the probe had landed, the weight of the probe would cause
the legs to flex a bit and toggle engine cut-off switches.
They tested the deployment of the legs.  The tested the operation
of the cut-off switches.  What they didn't notice, was that
when the legs deployed, they overshot their expected position
and bounced against the cut-off switches.  As soon as the
legs deployed, the engines shut off.  Probably cratered into
the ground at speed.



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From: "nathan_ " <nathan_@ireland.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 17:23:22 +0800
Subject: About Owyn
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From: "nathan_ " <nathan_@ireland.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 17:23:22 +0800
Subject: About Owyn
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Dear Mr. Feist,

I have two questions about Owyn:
1) Shall we hear about him in any new book?
2) Is he Owyn Beleforte from Tiburn ("Betrayal at Krondor")
   or Owyn Belefote from Timons ("Krondor The Betrayal")?

Best wishes

Marek Grzybowski
Tarnobrzeg, Poland

-- 

_______________________________________________
Get your free email from http://email.ireland.com



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Subject: Re: the future of tomas
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Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 13:10:00 +0200
Subject: Re: the future of tomas
From: "Sylvain Guehl" <fenyxkell@demo.xandmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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> 
> On Monday, October 15, 2001, at 02:57 PM, kevin wrote:
> 
> > mr.feist
> >  
> > without giving away too much will we read more on tomas and do you have 
> > a greater role for him
> >  
> >                      kevin etter
> >
> >
> 
> Eventually.  At present, though, I don't have any immediate plans for 
> Tomas.
> 
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----

"Eventually" meaning "with the last riftwar" I guess. 

;)

Syl



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Subject: A question about William
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 13:54:26 +0200
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From: "DPont" <d.pontolaeng@chello.nl>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: A question about William
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 13:54:26 +0200
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Hello!
How old was William in the story Silverthorn??

Tot Dob!
Stefanie



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From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: About Owyn
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 08:52:52 -0400
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From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re: About Owyn
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Hey Nat, it's the same Owen, as it is the same story. Krondor the Betrayal 
is based on the computer game Betrayal at Krondor. There are some 
differences from  the conversion from game to novel, but I guess Ray would 
be better able to explain inconsistences such as why he is from Tiburn in 
the game and Timons in the book. Probably just an honest mistake though.

Adieu
Jimmy

Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary 
Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
   -- Benjamin Franklin




>From: "nathan_ " <nathan_@ireland.com>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
>Subject: About Owyn
>Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 17:23:22 +0800
>
>Dear Mr. Feist,
>
>I have two questions about Owyn:
>1) Shall we hear about him in any new book?
>2) Is he Owyn Beleforte from Tiburn ("Betrayal at Krondor")
>    or Owyn Belefote from Timons ("Krondor The Betrayal")?
>
>Best wishes
>
>Marek Grzybowski
>Tarnobrzeg, Poland
>
>--
>
>_______________________________________________
>Get your free email from http://email.ireland.com
>


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp



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From: "nathan_ " <nathan_@ireland.com>
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From: "nathan_ " <nathan_@ireland.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 00:15:22 +0800
Subject: Re: A question about William
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> How old was William in the story Silverthorn??
 He was about 5 years old then.

 Father Nathan
-- 

_______________________________________________
Get your free email from http://email.ireland.com



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References: <002d01c15639$4e567ca0$0d2ca33e@mshome.net>
Subject: Re: A question about William
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From: "DPont" <d.pontolaeng@chello.nl>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: A question about William
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 18:33:54 +0200
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How can he be 22 years old in the Krondor-trilogy??

Tot Dob!
Stefanie

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "DPont" <d.pontolaeng@chello.nl>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2001 1:54 PM
Subject: A question about William


> Hello!
> How old was William in the story Silverthorn??
> 
> Tot Dob!
> Stefanie
> 



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To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Meaning of the word Valheru?
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 12:47:26 -0400
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From: "Kevin Cartee" <nymetsny@home.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Meaning of the word Valheru?
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 12:47:26 -0400
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I remember someone stating it’s meaning in elvish before, what was it? 
 
Thanks in advance!

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Subject: Re: Meaning of the word Valheru?
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 11:51:43 -0700
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From: "kevin" <kevykev@sbcglobal.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Meaning of the word Valheru?
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 11:51:43 -0700
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I've noticed some linguistic similarities to J.R.R.Tolkien "Valheru"
and "Valar", the latter means "those with power"."Edhel" is elf
according to Mr.Feist and Tolkien.Safe to assume there's some
inspiration from Papa Tolkien?
                 
                       The Other Kevin (Etter)
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: Kevin Cartee 
>To: FEISTFANS-L 
>Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2001 9:47 AM
>Subject: Meaning of the word Valheru?
>
>
>I remember someone stating it’s meaning in elvish before, what was it? 
>
> 
>
>Thanks in advance!

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From: "nathan_ " <nathan_@ireland.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 03:00:06 +0800
Subject: Re: A question about William
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From: "nathan_ " <nathan_@ireland.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 03:00:06 +0800
Subject: Re: A question about William
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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> How can he be 22 years old in the Krondor-trilogy??
 There's no problem with his age.
  Silverthorn                5
  A Darkness at Sethanon     6 -  7
  Krondor The Betrayal      16 - 17
  Krondor The Assasins      18 - 20
  Krondor Tear of the Gods  20 - 22 

 Best wishes
 Nathan
-- 

_______________________________________________
Get your free email from http://email.ireland.com



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Subject: Re: Meaning of the word Valheru?
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 19:30:06 +0200
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From: "Magnus Arvidsson" <magnus.arvidsson75@telia.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Meaning of the word Valheru?
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 19:30:06 +0200
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IIRC Valheru means Dragon Lord.. But I might be
wrong! ;-)

ŽCheers

Magnus
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: Kevin Cartee 
>To: FEISTFANS-L 
>Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2001 6:47 PM
>Subject: Meaning of the word Valheru?
>
>
>I remember someone stating it’s meaning in elvish before, what was it? 
>
> 
>
>Thanks in advance!

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From: Erik Trulsson <ertr1013@student.uu.se>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Meaning of the word Valheru?
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Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 21:37:48 +0200
From: Erik Trulsson <ertr1013@student.uu.se>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Meaning of the word Valheru?
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On Tue, Oct 16, 2001 at 11:51:43AM -0700, kevin wrote:
> I've noticed some linguistic similarities to J.R.R.Tolkien "Valheru"
> and "Valar", the latter means "those with power"."Edhel" is elf
> according to Mr.Feist and Tolkien.Safe to assume there's some
> inspiration from Papa Tolkien?

Fairly safe. "edhel" is borrowed from Tolkien. "Valheru" is almost
certainly by the Quenya-English dictionary in _Silmarillion_

"Val" means "power" and "heru" means "lord" in Quenya 

"Valheru" would therefore be "Power Lord" which seems a fairly fitting
description.

>                  
>                        The Other Kevin (Etter)
>   ----- Original Message ----- 
>   From: Kevin Cartee 
>   To: FEISTFANS-L 
>   Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2001 9:47 AM
>   Subject: Meaning of the word Valheru?
> 
> 
>   I remember someone stating it?s meaning in elvish before, what was it? 
> 
>    
> 
>   Thanks in advance!
> 

-- 
<Insert your favourite quote here.>
Erik Trulsson
ertr1013@student.uu.se



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Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 13:42:30 -0700
Subject: Re: A question about William
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Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 13:42:30 -0700
Subject: Re: A question about William
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Tuesday, October 16, 2001, at 04:54 AM, DPont wrote:

> Hello!
> How old was William in the story Silverthorn??
>
> Tot Dob!
> Stefanie
>
>
>
>
I think about six.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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References: <000001c15662$3cdec260$54e50b41@myrock1.ct.home.com> <001e01c15673$b575ab60$fb2efea9@pacbell.net> <20011016213747.A5536@student.uu.se>
Subject: Re: Meaning of the word Valheru?
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 15:57:35 -0700
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From: "kevin" <kevykev@sbcglobal.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Meaning of the word Valheru?
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 15:57:35 -0700
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Hi Erik,

I've found confimation of your translation in Krondor:The Betrayal. Chapter
One:Encounters, page 12 Avon/Eos hardcover Owyn asks "who are the ancient
ones?" Gorath answers "Lords of Power, the Valheru"
----- Original Message -----
From: "Erik Trulsson" <ertr1013@student.uu.se>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2001 12:37 PM
Subject: Re: Meaning of the word Valheru?


> On Tue, Oct 16, 2001 at 11:51:43AM -0700, kevin wrote:
> > I've noticed some linguistic similarities to J.R.R.Tolkien "Valheru"
> > and "Valar", the latter means "those with power"."Edhel" is elf
> > according to Mr.Feist and Tolkien.Safe to assume there's some
> > inspiration from Papa Tolkien?
>
> Fairly safe. "edhel" is borrowed from Tolkien. "Valheru" is almost
> certainly by the Quenya-English dictionary in _Silmarillion_
>
> "Val" means "power" and "heru" means "lord" in Quenya
>
> "Valheru" would therefore be "Power Lord" which seems a fairly fitting
> description.
>
> >
> >                        The Other Kevin (Etter)
> >   ----- Original Message -----
> >   From: Kevin Cartee
> >   To: FEISTFANS-L
> >   Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2001 9:47 AM
> >   Subject: Meaning of the word Valheru?
> >
> >
> >   I remember someone stating it?s meaning in elvish before, what was it?
> >
> >
> >
> >   Thanks in advance!
> >
>
> --
> <Insert your favourite quote here.>
> Erik Trulsson
> ertr1013@student.uu.se
>



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Subject: Crydee.com Menu Problems ?
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Subject: Crydee.com Menu Problems ?
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Anyone having problems with the main menu at www.crydee.com ?

I know Ray has, and one other.

If you are having problems , please email me direct at 
problems@crydee.com

Please mention if you are using a PC, Mac or other

Thanks
-- 
John

john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.

Raymond E Feist Ring
http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm



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Subject: Re:Crydee.com Menu Problems ?
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Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 01:20:43 +0200
Subject: Re:Crydee.com Menu Problems ?
From: "Sylvain Guehl" <fenyxkell@demo.xandmail.com>
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No trouble, using PC with IE 5

Syl

> Anyone having problems with the main menu at www.crydee.com ?
> 
> I know Ray has, and one other.
> 
> If you are having problems , please email me direct at 
> problems@crydee.com
> 
> Please mention if you are using a PC, Mac or other
> 
> Thanks
> -- 
> John
> 
> john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
> http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.
> 
> Raymond E Feist Ring
> http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm
> 
> 

Fenyx Kell.



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From: Kurgan@LittleBlueRoom.com
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 20:15:44 -0500
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
To: John <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Crydee.com Menu Problems ?
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Hello John,

J> Anyone having problems with the main menu at www.crydee.com ?

   No problems here, and I use the Opera browser, not IE or NS. I
   will comment on one little thing, though. That top frame "The
   Raymond E. Feist Reference Pages" is a bit disconcerting since it
   doesn't go away when you click a sub-page, instead remaining above
   the individual page title in the same font and the same size.
   Distracting. Just pet peeve material, not a complaint. :)



Best regards,

   Kurgan                            mailto:Kurgan@LittleBlueRoom.com



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From: "Rich Ehrlichman" <richse@eden.rutgers.edu>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Checking
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 05:03:09 -0400
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Did I get kicked from the list or has everyone just been really really
quiet?

Rich E.



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*** EOOH ***
From: "Donal K. Fellows" <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
CC: "Rich Ehrlichman" <richse@eden.rutgers.edu>
Subject: Re: Checking
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 10:44:59 +0100
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"Rich Ehrlichman" <richse@eden.rutgers.edu>
> Did I get kicked from the list or has everyone just been really really
> quiet?

It's just quiet.  It happens occasionally (though I've Cc-ed you too
just in case the list has decided to stop delivery to you at the same
time... <g>)

Donal.
-- 
Donal K. Fellows, Department of Computer Science, University of Manchester, UK.
(work) fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk     Tel: +44-161-275-6137  (preferred email addr.)
(home) donal@ugglan.demon.co.uk  Tel: +44-1274-401017   Mobile: +44-7957-298955
http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~fellowsd/  (Don't quote my .sig; I've seen it before!)



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From: Kenneth Jones <killkenny@thos.co.za>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 11:44:32 +0200
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Kenneth Jones <killkenny@thos.co.za>
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Just really really quiet

At 05:03 AM 10/18/01 -0400, you wrote:
>Did I get kicked from the list or has everyone just been really really
>quiet?
>
>Rich E.



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 10:54:25 +0100
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Just quiet I guess.

Al

At 05:03 18/10/2001 -0400, you wrote:
>Did I get kicked from the list or has everyone just been really really
>quiet?
>
>Rich E.



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From: John <john@crydee.com>
Subject: Re: Crydee.com Menu Problems ?
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 19:03:25 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: John <john@crydee.com>
Subject: Re: Crydee.com Menu Problems ?
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Thanks to those who have replied, it looks like the problem relates to 
the script for the menu on the main page, all sub menus should still 
work OK, so I will revert to the older style shortly, though it may take 
a week
-- 
John

john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.

Raymond E Feist Ring
http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 18:49:55 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: John <john@crydee.com>
Subject: Re: Crydee.com Menu Problems ?
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Kurgan@LittleBlueRoom.com writes
>Hello John,
>
>J> Anyone having problems with the main menu at www.crydee.com ?
>
>   No problems here, and I use the Opera browser, not IE or NS. I
>   will comment on one little thing, though. That top frame "The
>   Raymond E. Feist Reference Pages" is a bit disconcerting since it
>   doesn't go away when you click a sub-page, instead remaining above
>   the individual page title in the same font and the same size.
>   Distracting. Just pet peeve material, not a complaint. :)
>
>
That was supposed to be an upgrade but it hasn't been completed 
throughout the site, I may change it and make it smaller. :) The idea 
was that it is on every page anyway, so I may as well leave it there. I 
need to re-think it
-- 
John

john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.

Raymond E Feist Ring
http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm



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Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 15:12:12 -0700 (PDT)
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From: Terry Corbett <macros102@yahoo.com>
Subject: Honored Enemy
To: Feist <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 15:12:12 -0700 (PDT)
From: Terry Corbett <macros102@yahoo.com>
Subject: Honored Enemy
To: Feist <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
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I was just wondering why exactly Honored Enemy does
not have an American publisher?  Also, do the future
books (Krondor: The Crawler, etc.) have American
publishers or are they facing the same problem?  I
don't know if this has been asked before or not, so
bare with me. :)

Terry Corbett

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals.
http://personals.yahoo.com



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From: "Jason Martin" <res0b95g@verizon.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: OT: LorR boardgame..
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 15:24:04 -0700
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Jason Martin" <res0b95g@verizon.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: OT: LorR boardgame..
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 15:24:04 -0700
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Ok, I just picked up the Lord of the Rings boardgame from Wizards of the
Coast.  I'm curious if anyone else has played this game?  I haven't played
it yet, but probably will in the next week or two.  So if you have played it
send me an Email off the list and tell me what you think about it.  From
some of the reviews I have read, its hard as hell to complete the game which
really appeals to me.

Thanks,

Jason

"Mas Tequila!"
       Red Vodoo- Sammy Hagar



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 16:47:09 -0700
Subject: Re: Honored Enemy
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Thursday, October 18, 2001, at 03:12 PM, Terry Corbett wrote:

> I was just wondering why exactly Honored Enemy does
> not have an American publisher?  Also, do the future
> books (Krondor: The Crawler, etc.) have American
> publishers or are they facing the same problem?  I
> don't know if this has been asked before or not, so
> bare with me. :)
>
> Terry Corbett
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals.
> http://personals.yahoo.com
>
>
>
>

I will not discuss the particulars of why Legends of the Riftwar has no 
American publisher.  Krondor series is currently done and there is no 
contract with anyone for a continuation.  I will probably get to those 
after I finish Conclave/Riftwar III.

Best, R.E.F.
---

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
From: Valheru89@aol.com
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 22:40:55 EDT
Subject: Hi Question for anyone
To: feistfans-l@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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Hi...I was wondering...Has anyone Heard of "Wicca"? If so could you tell me 
more about it I am curious in a Archaeological way if there is such. I do not 
wish to do anything but merely learn about it. I do not wish to practice this 
"Magick" as they call it. Thanks for your help.
-Chance-



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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Hi Question for anyone
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 22:20:36 -0500
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Hey folks,
    I have already answered this off list as I know many of you who
have opinions or information will, and I would appreciate it is the
rest of you folk would also keep it private to Chance.  I don't wish
to see a religious debate/discussion right now, particularly given
the extremely tense relations between some of the differing
religious communities around the world.

-James

----- Original Message -----

> Hi...I was wondering...Has anyone Heard of "Wicca"? If so could you tell me
> more about it I am curious in a Archaeological way if there is such. I do not
> wish to do anything but merely learn about it. I do not wish to practice this
> "Magick" as they call it. Thanks for your help.
> -Chance-
>



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*** EOOH ***
From: dreamfish@space.com
Date: 19 Oct 2001 05:52:33 -0700
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Hi back at ya...
  
 While I'm no longer Wiccan, I am a Pagan, and a good site to get info
is http://www.witchvox.com

  
  Archaeological speaking though, Wicca has only been around for about
50 years, so you would have a hard time digging up (!) any 'old' info
on the Faith. WitchCraft has been practiced for thousands of years
though, so do a search on the history of WitchCraft.
  
Blessed Be 
Dreamfish, the SandWitch ;~)

  

___________________________________________________________________
Join the Space Program: Get FREE E-mail at http://www.space.com.



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*** EOOH ***
From: Valheru89@aol.com
Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 11:20:06 EDT
Subject: Re: Hi Question for anyone
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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Yea so your pagan...not to be funnnny or anything miss, but can you do like 
this Magick, and what is the diffrence between Magick, and Magic?



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*** EOOH ***
From: dreamfish@space.com
Date: 19 Oct 2001 10:16:45 -0700
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On Fri, 19 October 2001, Valheru89@aol.com wrote:

> 
> Yea so your pagan...not to be funnnny or anything miss, but can you do like 
> this Magick, and what is the diffrence between Magick, and Magic? 

 Yes, I'm a Pagan...but when we do 'magick'(which is spelled this way
to distinguish it from slight-of-hand tricks) or spells, we are
actually doing a form of prayer. The rituals are used to focus the
energy from the practitioner to the prayer. Many of you have done a
'Pagan Ritual' by the simple act of making a wish, and blowing out
your B-day candle on your cake. The Church has it's own rites and
ritual, so too does the Pagans. Go to the site I told you about. There
is plenty of info there.  http://www.witchvox.com
  
The other links I sent to you off list have some info, also.
  
And we really should take this whole thing to private E-mail. 
  
BB 
 
Anita

___________________________________________________________________
Join the Space Program: Get FREE E-mail at http://www.space.com.



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Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 18:18:28 -0600
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: feistfans-l@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: elves on Midkemia
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It has been stated in multiple sources that moredhel cannot have
children with eledhel, but can if a moredhel has Returned.

What about the glamredhel? or that fourth group (who's name I can't
recall atm)?

Also, none of the four groups of elves are far removed from each other:
they are still all the same race, and evolution (if it is indeed genetic
that the moredhel are pretty much evil and the glamdrehel mad) hasn't
taken them very far apart.

So why would it be that a eledhel and moredhel couldn't have a child?
Was it something from the gaming material to simplify things (ie, no
crossbreeding issues save for Calis, like is common in other worlds)? Or
just something to make the subraces farther apart from each other?

Craig J. Ries



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Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 17:43:12 -0700
Subject: Re: elves on Midkemia
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 17:43:12 -0700
Subject: Re: elves on Midkemia
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Friday, October 19, 2001, at 05:18 PM, Craig J. Ries wrote:

> It has been stated in multiple sources that moredhel cannot have
> children with eledhel, but can if a moredhel has Returned.
>
> What about the glamredhel? or that fourth group (who's name I can't
> recall atm)?
>
> Also, none of the four groups of elves are far removed from each other:
> they are still all the same race, and evolution (if it is indeed genetic
> that the moredhel are pretty much evil and the glamdrehel mad) hasn't
> taken them very far apart.
>
> So why would it be that a eledhel and moredhel couldn't have a child?

Because that's the way the rules were set up for the game, so I had to 
come up with a reason for the books.  That reason is 
psychological/emotional.  An elf has to be in a certain frame of mind to 
release the necessary hormones to conceive.  One of the nice things 
about dealing with aliens: I get to make up the rules.

> Was it something from the gaming material to simplify things (ie, no
> crossbreeding issues save for Calis, like is common in other worlds)? Or
> just something to make the subraces farther apart from each other?
>

Steve didn't like half-races in D&D and we decided there wouldn't be any 
in Midkemia.  That carried over to the books.

Best,R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 19:21:01 -0600
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: elves on Midkemia
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Raymond Feist wrote:
> 
> On Friday, October 19, 2001, at 05:18 PM, Craig J. Ries wrote:
> 
> > It has been stated in multiple sources that moredhel cannot have
> > children with eledhel, but can if a moredhel has Returned.
> >
> > What about the glamredhel? or that fourth group (who's name I can't
> > recall atm)?
> >
> > Also, none of the four groups of elves are far removed from each other:
> > they are still all the same race, and evolution (if it is indeed genetic
> > that the moredhel are pretty much evil and the glamdrehel mad) hasn't
> > taken them very far apart.
> >
> > So why would it be that a eledhel and moredhel couldn't have a child?
> 
> Because that's the way the rules were set up for the game, so I had to
> come up with a reason for the books.  That reason is
> psychological/emotional.  An elf has to be in a certain frame of mind to
> release the necessary hormones to conceive.  One of the nice things
> about dealing with aliens: I get to make up the rules.

Ahh, darn that game! jk :)
I always thought it was funny when Harold Johnson created Raistlin for
Dragonlance, Raistlin had gold skin and hour-glass pupils "cause it
looked cool". Poor Margaret had to come up with the actual story for it.
I'm sure you can relate easily enough, Ray :)

> Steve didn't like half-races in D&D and we decided there wouldn't be any
> in Midkemia.  That carried over to the books.

Makes plenty of sense to me :)

Craig J. Ries



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*** EOOH ***
From: "James E.Roberts" <jroberts6@vtown.com.au>
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Or have I just been unsubscribed again!
Haaa but life goes on....



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Life goes on...we're still here.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "James E.Roberts" <jroberts6@vtown.com.au>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2001 9:49 PM
Subject: Is there Anybody Out There?


> Or have I just been unsubscribed again!
> Haaa but life goes on....
> 



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> Or have I just been unsubscribed again!
> Haaa but life goes on....

Well I am at least here :) 



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Is this list really active?



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From: Torstein Litlabø <litlaboe@online.no>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
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Subject: Re: Is there Anybody Out There?
Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 11:52:19 +0100
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*** EOOH ***
From: Torstein Litlabø <litlaboe@online.no>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Is there Anybody Out There?
Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 11:52:19 +0100
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Do you mean active as in a sense of "Is this list real or just
something put together and used by one or two hardcore fans of Raymond
E. Feist?"

Well, we are hardcore fans, but there are more than one or two of us,
and I guess we can be considered fairly active(though this is my first
mail in a long time).

I guess RIP has the exact stats on how active each member is.

And John has an excellent gallery of most of us at
http://www.crydee.com . Check out the "Feistfans-l Mailing List" with
subtitles for more info.

With regards
Torstein Litlaboe


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Black Dragon" <blackdragon@gamebox.net>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Monday, October 22, 2001 4:41 AM
Subject: Re: Is there Anybody Out There?


> Is this list really active?
> 
> 



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Subject: Re: Is there Anybody Out There?
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Donal K. Fellows" <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Is there Anybody Out There?
Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 11:49:15 +0100
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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"Black Dragon" <blackdragon@gamebox.net>
> Is this list really active?

Yes.  Just mysteriously quiet.

Donal.
-- 
Donal K. Fellows, Department of Computer Science, University of Manchester, UK.
(work) fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk     Tel: +44-161-275-6137  (preferred email addr.)
(home) donal@ugglan.demon.co.uk  Tel: +44-1274-401017   Mobile: +44-7957-298955
http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~fellowsd/  (Don't quote my .sig; I've seen it before!)



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Subject: Re: Is there Anybody Out There?
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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Is there Anybody Out There?
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----- Original Message ----- 
From: Donal K. Fellows <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Monday, October 22, 2001 8:49 PM
Subject: Re: Is there Anybody Out There?


> "Black Dragon" <blackdragon@gamebox.net>
> > Is this list really active?
> 
> Yes.  Just mysteriously quiet.

*Intake of breath*

It's a conspiracy!

Cheers,
James



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From: "Theresa Roden" <lady_hoby@hotmail.com>
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I'd be willing to discuss this with you off list.  I'd rather not open up 
what could be a major can of worms or flamewar as it's not really on-topic 
unless Ray chooses to chime in.

Theresa


>>
>Hi...I was wondering...Has anyone Heard of "Wicca"? If so could you tell me
>more about it I am curious in a Archaeological way if there is such. I do 
>not
>wish to do anything but merely learn about it. I do not wish to practice 
>this
>"Magick" as they call it. Thanks for your help.
>-Chance-
>


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp



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Subject: 5 questions
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From: "Black Dragon" <blackdragon@gamebox.net>
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Subject: 5 questions
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1. Has 'Tear of Gods' been published in US? I think it is available in UK
now.

2. OK and what's this Riftwar Legacy series? Co-authored?

[Well I am now reading 'Prince of the Blood'. I have finished the Riftwar
Saga. So please don't spoil me. Unfortunately I have also read 'Rage of a
Demon King' before Silverthorne, after reading Magiacin. There is really
nothing like Magician in the whole series. It's so great and vast!]

4. And which will be the next 'mainstream' series? Conclave of the Shadows?
Any hint on how many books CotS will consist of?

5. Can anyone here please comment on the Empire series. I am still
hesitating if I should read them. They are huge, except the first one
ofcourse. I will need some money :)

That's enough question for a newcomer to the list. Sorry that I did not read
much of the FAQ cause there were too many spoilers there. It has already
spoiled me a lot so I deleted it (yes, shift + delete, not only delete, also
cleared the offline page). Can't you guys create a spoiler-free FAQ :)

                        - Black Dragon



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From: "Black Dragon" <blackdragon@gamebox.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Correction
Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 23:14:21 +0600
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Sorry, I wrote : "2. OK and what's this Riftwar Legacy series? Co-authored?"

Should be : "2. OK and what's this Legends of the Riftwar series?
Co-authored?"

                - Black Dragon



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Black Dragon wrote:

> 1. Has 'Tear of Gods' been published in US? I think it is available in UK
> now.
>

It's definitely published in the UK for a while, cos I bought the UK version two
weeks ago in a hungarian fantasy shop :)

>
> 2. OK and what's this Riftwar Legacy series? Co-authored?

It takes place during the war with the Tsurani, before the first Rift is closed
by Pug and Macros.

>
>
> 4. And which will be the next 'mainstream' series? Conclave of the Shadows?
> Any hint on how many books CotS will consist of?

That's a good question, I have no idea...

>
>
> 5. Can anyone here please comment on the Empire series. I am still
> hesitating if I should read them. They are huge, except the first one
> ofcourse. I will need some money :)

I read that part of the series only in hungarian translation, but I think they
were very good and definitely worth to be bought.

AnWar, another newbies first post :)



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Has Krondor : Tear Of The Gods been released officially in the normal
paperback size in the UK yet?  I saw it for £5.99 at Heathrow airport a
couple of months ago, but since then I have seen nothing at all.  It says on
the Amazon website that it is to be released on the 3rd December and its
recommended retail price is £6.99, so I was a bit surprised, and wish that I
had bought it then and there now.  Can anyone confirm that it is out yet or
was this just a freak chance that it had somehow got to the bookshelves?
I've probably made an idiot of myself.

Thanks for any answers.

John



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Mr. Feist I was recently on AmazonUK and it said that Talon of the
Silverhawk was coming out in august, but amazonUS doesn't have
anything listed, so I was wondering if you knew when Talon was coming
out in the US.


                                                                   Thanks

                                                              Steve Weghorn



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 13:15:53 -0700
Subject: Re: Question for Mr. Feist
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Monday, October 22, 2001, at 12:58 PM, Steve Weghorn wrote:

> Mr. Feist I was recently on AmazonUK and it said that Talon of the 
> Silverhawk was coming out in august, but amazonUS doesn't have anything 
> listed, so I was wondering if you knew when Talon was coming out in the 
> US.
>    
>

Talon will be released in the Spring of 2003 (figure March) in the US.

Best,R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.

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Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 21:30:59 +0100
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From: "Michael Gibson" <gibbyfish@yahoo.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Question for Mr. Feist
Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 21:30:59 +0100
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Any news about the UK release, or is this the same as the US?

Mike,
Gibfish of the West.

-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On
>Behalf Of Raymond Feist
>Sent: 22 October 2001 21:16
>
>On Monday, October 22, 2001, at 12:58 PM, Steve Weghorn wrote:
>
>
>Mr. Feist I was recently on AmazonUK and it said that Talon of the Silverhawk
>was coming out in august, but amazonUS doesn't have anything listed, so I was
>wondering if you knew when Talon was coming out in the US.
>
>
>
>
>Talon will be released in the Spring of 2003 (figure March) in the US.
>
>Best,R.E.F.
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
>stupidity.
>

_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com



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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Alex B <al.burl@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: Question for Mr. Feist
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Where do places like Amazon get their dates from? It's got the Atlas date 
as October 2000.

Al

At 21:30 22/10/2001 +0100, you wrote:
>Any news about the UK release, or is this the same as the US?
>
>Mike,
>Gibfish of the West.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On
>Behalf Of Raymond Feist
>Sent: 22 October 2001 21:16
>
>On Monday, October 22, 2001, at 12:58 PM, Steve Weghorn wrote:
>
>
>Mr. Feist I was recently on AmazonUK and it said that Talon of the Silverhawk
>was coming out in august, but amazonUS doesn't have anything listed, so I was
>wondering if you knew when Talon was coming out in the US.
>
>
>
>
>Talon will be released in the Spring of 2003 (figure March) in the US.
>
>Best,R.E.F.
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
>stupidity.
>
>
>_________________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 00:00:14 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: John <john@crydee.com>
Subject: Re: TOTG
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John Crawley <John_Crawley1@hotmail.com> writes
>Has Krondor : Tear Of The Gods been released officially in the normal
>paperback size in the UK yet?  I saw it for £5.99 at Heathrow airport a
>couple of months ago, but since then I have seen nothing at all.  It says on
>the Amazon website that it is to be released on the 3rd December and its
>recommended retail price is £6.99, so I was a bit surprised, and wish that I
>had bought it then and there now.  Can anyone confirm that it is out yet or
>was this just a freak chance that it had somehow got to the bookshelves?
>I've probably made an idiot of myself.
>
>Thanks for any answers.
>
>John
>
>

What you saw would have been the special overseas edition, often 
released about the same time as the HB

-- 
John

john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.

Raymond E Feist Ring
http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm



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References: <9829C858-C729-11D5-B502-003065A8A644@bittersea.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20011022220528.00aabdc0@pop.tiscali.co.uk>
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Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 17:35:51 -0600
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Question for Mr. Feist
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Alex B wrote:
> 
> Where do places like Amazon get their dates from? It's got the Atlas date
> as October 2000.

Amazon? Most likely they get rough dates from the companies that publish
the books, I would guess. Course, I recall Amazon.com having a listing
for a Dragonlance book entitled "Murder in the Tower of High Sorcery".
Sufficiet to say, that book was *never written*, and it took them months
to get it off the listings :)

Ray wrote:
> >Talon will be released in the Spring of 2003 (figure March) in the US.

Is this the good news we've been waiting for on word of a new US
publisher? :)

Craig J. Ries



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From: "A Irving" <s355156@student.uq.edu.au>
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Responding To:    AnWar <AnWar@freestart.hu>
Original Date:    Mon, 22 Oct 2001 19:20:04 +0200
> 
> 
> 
> Black Dragon wrote:
> 
> > 1. Has 'Tear of Gods' been published in US? I think it is available in 
> > UK
> > now.
> >
> 
> It's definitely published in the UK for a while, cos I bought the UK 
> version two
> weeks ago in a hungarian fantasy shop :)
It is available in the US, and listed on amazon.com for $17.50
> >
> > 2. OK and what's this Riftwar Legacy series? Co-authored?
> 
> It takes place during the war with the Tsurani, before the first Rift is 
> closed
> by Pug and Macros.
the legends of the riftwar series has 3 co-authored novels, First one with 
william forstchen called Honoured Enemy (has been released in UK but not 
american publisher so far)
Murder in LaMut - With Joel Rosenberg -book 2 unreleased
Jimmy The Hand with S.M Stirling -book 3 unreleased
> >
> > 4. And which will be the next 'mainstream' series? Conclave of the 
> > Shadows?
> > Any hint on how many books CotS will consist of?
Conclave of the shadows and its first book (possibly called talon of the 
Silverhawk) is the next series, the 3rd riftwar, and happens ~50 years 
after the serpentwar IIRC.
> >
> >
> > 5. Can anyone here please comment on the Empire series. I am still
> > hesitating if I should read them. They are huge, except the first one
> > ofcourse. I will need some money :)
> 
> I read that part of the series only in hungarian translation, but I think 
> they
> were very good and definitely worth to be bought.
> 
> AnWar, another newbies first post :)
I loved it, It was a truly amazing piece of work. The original magician was 
still the best, but the empire trilogy has a little more political and 
character information than the other series.
CIAO,
      Aaron

http://www.hallofworlds.net/kerr/main.php
http://www.nightshadow.co.uk 




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Subject: 3rd Serpentwar, Nighthawks and Wheel of Time
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Subject: 3rd Serpentwar, Nighthawks and Wheel of Time
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> Conclave of the shadows and its first book (possibly called talon of the
> Silverhawk) is the next series, the 3rd riftwar, and happens ~50 years
> after the serpentwar IIRC.

~50 years or 100 years? [I forgot what IIRC means :( ]

OK and another question : Where did Mr. Feist got the idea of the
Nighthawks? Does a secret society like this exist on real-life? Well, they
really fascinated me! In today's world situation, this type of society can
be a real threat! And the way they (Islamic fanatics) are willing to give
their life away, it might not be very far when this kind of guilds exist in
real-life, thogh they will take only one shot to kill, and with
flame-throwers easily available, the old-style Nighthawks could not have
survived long.

Have anyone of you read Robert Jordn's Wheel of Time Series *after reading
Feist books*? Are they good when read after Feist books? I have got the
first 3 parts, but have not touched those yet. Any suggetions?

                          - Black Dragon



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Subject: RE: 3rd Serpentwar, Nighthawks and Wheel of Time
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From: Allan Mills <milla@css.com.au>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" (FEISTFANS-L) <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: 3rd Serpentwar, Nighthawks and Wheel of Time
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 13:38:59 +1000
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: Black Dragon [mailto:blackdragon@gamebox.net]
> Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2001 1:07 PM
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Subject: 3rd Serpentwar, Nighthawks and Wheel of Time
> 
> 
> > Conclave of the shadows and its first book (possibly called 
> talon of the
> > Silverhawk) is the next series, the 3rd riftwar, and 
> happens ~50 years
> > after the serpentwar IIRC.
> 
> ~50 years or 100 years? [I forgot what IIRC means :( ]
> 
> OK and another question : Where did Mr. Feist got the idea of the
> Nighthawks? Does a secret society like this exist on 
> real-life? Well, they

 Assassins have existed for thousands of years. Actual independant guilds of
assassins are a different matter, aside from the ninja I can't think of any.


> really fascinated me! In today's world situation, this type 
> of society can
> be a real threat! And the way they (Islamic fanatics) are 
> willing to give
> their life away, it might not be very far when this kind of 
> guilds exist in
> real-life, thogh they will take only one shot to kill, and with
> flame-throwers easily available, the old-style Nighthawks 
> could not have
> survived long.

 Terrorists are different from assassins. An assassin usually won't
sacrifice their own life in order to kill someone else. Their mercenary
lifestyle is also generally of their own choosing, terrorists are usually
brainwashed into dying for the cause. 

> 
> Have anyone of you read Robert Jordn's Wheel of Time Series 
> *after reading
> Feist books*? Are they good when read after Feist books? I 
> have got the
> first 3 parts, but have not touched those yet. Any suggetions?
> 
 I like Jordan's book but that's just my personal opinion. You'll have to
decide for yourself if you like them.

 Allan

>                           - Black Dragon
> 
> 



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Subject: HELP FAST!!
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From: Adam012882@cs.com
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 00:01:38 EDT
Subject: HELP FAST!!
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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SORRY ABOUT THE CAPS Y KEYBOARD IS SCREWD UP< ANYWAYS I NEED A REALLY GOOD 
SCI_FI STORY AS SOON AS POSSIBLE< A DOWNLOADABLE ONE WILL BE FINE> CAN SOEONE 
DIRECT E TO A GOOD WEBSITE< OR SUGGEST A REALLY GOOD ONE> I NEED IT FOR 
ENGLISH CLASS TOARROW< I PROISED THE TEACHER I WOULD BRING ONE IN> AGAIN< 
SORRY ABOUT THE CAPS> THANKS

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Subject: RE: 3rd Serpentwar, Nighthawks and Wheel of Time
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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From: James_Turnbull@kaz.com.au
Subject: RE: 3rd Serpentwar, Nighthawks and Wheel of Time
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 14:02:55 +1000
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>> OK and another question : Where did Mr. Feist got the idea of the
>> Nighthawks? Does a secret society like this exist on
>> real-life? Well, they

>Assassins have existed for thousands of years. Actual independant guilds of
>assassins are a different matter, aside from the ninja I can't think of any.

Actually the word 'assassin' comes from the Latin word "assassinus" which
in turn is derived from the Arabic word "hassasin" which means hashish
user.  The word was used to describe a group of Islamic killers from the
11th Century who preyed on Christian Crusaders for violating Islamic holy
sites.  They were promised paradise for killing their enemies (and dying
the process).  The order extensively used hashish to induce feelings of
pleasure and delude their their members in believing this was what awaited
them in paradise.

Regards

James Turnbull



> 
>		     Allan Mills 
>		     <milla@css.com.au>        To:     "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" (FEISTFANS-L) 
>		     Sent by:                   <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> 
>		     owner-FEISTFANS-L@c       cc: 
>		     ornell.edu                Subject:     RE: 3rd Serpentwar, Nighthawks and Wheel of Time 
> 
> 
>		     23/10/2001 01:38 PM 
>		     Please respond to 
>		     FEISTFANS-L 
> 
> 
>
>
>
>
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Black Dragon [mailto:blackdragon@gamebox.net]
>> Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2001 1:07 PM
>> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>> Subject: 3rd Serpentwar, Nighthawks and Wheel of Time
>>
>>
>> > Conclave of the shadows and its first book (possibly called
>> talon of the
>> > Silverhawk) is the next series, the 3rd riftwar, and
>> happens ~50 years
>> > after the serpentwar IIRC.
>>
>> ~50 years or 100 years? [I forgot what IIRC means :( ]
>>
>> OK and another question : Where did Mr. Feist got the idea of the
>> Nighthawks? Does a secret society like this exist on
>> real-life? Well, they
>
> Assassins have existed for thousands of years. Actual independant guilds
>of
>assassins are a different matter, aside from the ninja I can't think of
>any.
>
>
>> really fascinated me! In today's world situation, this type
>> of society can
>> be a real threat! And the way they (Islamic fanatics) are
>> willing to give
>> their life away, it might not be very far when this kind of
>> guilds exist in
>> real-life, thogh they will take only one shot to kill, and with
>> flame-throwers easily available, the old-style Nighthawks
>> could not have
>> survived long.
>
> Terrorists are different from assassins. An assassin usually won't
>sacrifice their own life in order to kill someone else. Their mercenary
>lifestyle is also generally of their own choosing, terrorists are usually
>brainwashed into dying for the cause.
>
>>
>> Have anyone of you read Robert Jordn's Wheel of Time Series
>> *after reading
>> Feist books*? Are they good when read after Feist books? I
>> have got the
>> first 3 parts, but have not touched those yet. Any suggetions?
>>
> I like Jordan's book but that's just my personal opinion. You'll have to
>decide for yourself if you like them.
>
> Allan
>
>>                           - Black Dragon
>>
>>
>




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Subject: Re: 5 questions
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AnWar,
I am hungarian too, although I live in Canada and I was born in Romania.  I
speak hungarian at home though.  Just thought I would write this message, I
thought I was the only hungarian speaking fan on the list.  I guess I was
wrong.  Sorry for the off-topic post,

Rob Kolech.


----- Original Message -----
From: "AnWar" <AnWar@freestart.hu>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Monday, October 22, 2001 1:20 PM
Subject: Re: 5 questions


>
>
> Black Dragon wrote:
>
> > 1. Has 'Tear of Gods' been published in US? I think it is available in UK
> > now.
> >
>
> It's definitely published in the UK for a while, cos I bought the UK version two
> weeks ago in a hungarian fantasy shop :)
>
> >
> > 2. OK and what's this Riftwar Legacy series? Co-authored?
>
> It takes place during the war with the Tsurani, before the first Rift is closed
> by Pug and Macros.
>
> >
> >
> > 4. And which will be the next 'mainstream' series? Conclave of the Shadows?
> > Any hint on how many books CotS will consist of?
>
> That's a good question, I have no idea...
>
> >
> >
> > 5. Can anyone here please comment on the Empire series. I am still
> > hesitating if I should read them. They are huge, except the first one
> > ofcourse. I will need some money :)
>
> I read that part of the series only in hungarian translation, but I think they
> were very good and definitely worth to be bought.
>
> AnWar, another newbies first post :)
>
>



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Funny mail :)

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Subject: RE: Question for Mr. Feist
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Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 23:29:24 -0700
From: Max Haghighi <maxhag@pacbell.net>
Subject: RE: Question for Mr. Feist
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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Ray:

Is that late date for the U.S. release due to publisher problems again and
is it being released earlier in the U.K.?

Max
>  -----Original Message-----
>  From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Raymond Feist
>  Sent: Monday, October 22, 2001 1:16 PM
>  To: FEISTFANS-L
>  Subject: Re: Question for Mr. Feist
>
>
>  On Monday, October 22, 2001, at 12:58 PM, Steve Weghorn wrote:
>
>
>    Mr. Feist I was recently on AmazonUK and it said that Talon of the
>Silverhawk was coming out in august, but amazonUS doesn't have anything
>listed, so I was wondering if you knew when Talon was coming out in the US.
>
>
>
>
>  Talon will be released in the Spring of 2003 (figure March) in the US.
>
>  Best,R.E.F.
>  ----
>
>  Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
>stupidity.

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From: "Rich Ehrlichman" <richse@eden.rutgers.edu>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
References: <3c.13430028.290645a2@cs.com>
Subject: Re: HELP FAST!!
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 05:35:40 -0400
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Rich Ehrlichman" <richse@eden.rutgers.edu>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: HELP FAST!!
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 05:35:40 -0400
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

there are some good fantasy stories at http://www.baen.com/library/ but i
dont know what you can legally do with the stories besides read them. it may
say somewhere on their page. good luck with class

----- Original Message -----
>From: Adam012882@cs.com
>To: FEISTFANS-L
>Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2001 12:01 AM
>Subject: HELP FAST!!
>
>
>SORRY ABOUT THE CAPS Y KEYBOARD IS SCREWD UP< ANYWAYS I NEED A REALLY GOOD
>SCI_FI STORY AS SOON AS POSSIBLE< A DOWNLOADABLE ONE WILL BE FINE> CAN
>SOEONE DIRECT E TO A GOOD WEBSITE< OR SUGGEST A REALLY GOOD ONE> I NEED IT
>FOR ENGLISH CLASS TOARROW< I PROISED THE TEACHER I WOULD BRING ONE IN>
>AGAIN< SORRY ABOUT THE CAPS> THANKS
>


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Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 18:20:08 +0800
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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Shawn Chung <shawnc@starhub.net.sg>
Subject: RE: Question for Mr. Feist
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 18:20:08 +0800
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Shawn Chung <shawnc@starhub.net.sg>
Subject: RE: Question for Mr. Feist
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

IIRC, Ray just started writing Talon about 2-3 months ago.  Factor in 
his other projects, the editorial process, setting up and printing 
the books and sending them to distributors, and March 2003 seems just 
about right.

>Ray:
>
>Is that late date for the U.S. release due to publisher problems 
>again and is it being released earlier in the U.K.?
>
>Max
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu 
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Raymond Feist
>Sent: Monday, October 22, 2001 1:16 PM
>To: FEISTFANS-L
>Subject: Re: Question for Mr. Feist
>
>On Monday, October 22, 2001, at 12:58 PM, Steve Weghorn wrote:
>
>Mr. Feist I was recently on AmazonUK and it said that Talon of the 
>Silverhawk was coming out in august, but amazonUS doesn't have 
>anything listed, so I was wondering if you knew when Talon was 
>coming out in the US.
>    
>
>
>Talon will be released in the Spring of 2003 (figure March) in the US.
>
[snip]

Best,
-- 


Shawn Chung

Editor (Singapore)
whatsonwhen limited


MP: +65 96180809
Fx : +65 287 1215
E   :  shawnc@starhub.net.sg
U   :  http://www.whatsonwhen.com

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Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 10:14:26 -0400
From: "Paddyjack [ ]" <erykel@lycos.com>
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Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 10:14:26 -0400
From: "Paddyjack [ ]" <erykel@lycos.com>
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>Have anyone of you read Robert Jordn's Wheel of Time Series *after reading
>Feist books*? Are they good when read after Feist books? I have got the
>first 3 parts, but have not touched those yet. Any suggetions?
>
>                          - Black Dragon
>


Probably a lot of us have read them. Jordan was my favorite serie for
the first 4-5 books, but I'm very disapointed with the way the serie
went after that. I'm actually reading the last one so far (9th?), and
I'm more often than not skimming through the book because I feel that
most of those subplots are useless and not interesting to the story at
large. I have the habit of reading several books in paralel, so I can
really see the difference between the two I'm reading right now
(Hobb's Assassin serie), and why I don't like the last Jordan.

Ray's Empire serie is VERY good by the way, especially if you love a
bit of politics in your stories.

Paddyjack

>


Make a difference, help support the relief efforts in the U.S.
http://clubs.lycos.com/live/events/september11.asp



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Subject: Re: 3rd Serpentwar, Nighthawks and Wheel of Time
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Subject: Re: 3rd Serpentwar, Nighthawks and Wheel of Time
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: "Gary Stenhouse" <STENGAR@uk.ibm.com>
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 15:25:33 +0100
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


Is the hobb series anygood?, its one of those ones I have not started yet
currently reading Celtika  Robert Holdstock merlin series pretty good so
far.

Thanks & Kind Regards

Gary J Stenhouse
Customer Service Rep.
Software Enquiry Desk
SC Ireland 68620
00353 (0) 18154000
IBM.COM Service Centre EMEA

www.ibm.com/ie

"Some days your the Windshield
& some Days your the fly
What Day are you having?"






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From: "Natalie Henderson" <natz101@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: 3rd Serpentwar, Nighthawks and Wheel of Time
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 14:48:57 +0000
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From: "Natalie Henderson" <natz101@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: 3rd Serpentwar, Nighthawks and Wheel of Time
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 14:48:57 +0000
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I read the Hobb series before I started reading feist and I thought they 
where great. She's another writer who really pulls you into the story so 
that you really care about the characters. I read them all in a row and am 
currently waiting impatiently for her next book!!

Thats my opinnion anyway :)

Natalie

>From: "Gary Stenhouse" <STENGAR@uk.ibm.com>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
>Subject: Re: 3rd Serpentwar, Nighthawks and Wheel of Time
>Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 15:25:33 +0100
>
>
>Is the hobb series anygood?, its one of those ones I have not started yet
>currently reading Celtika  Robert Holdstock merlin series pretty good so
>far.
>
>Thanks & Kind Regards
>
>Gary J Stenhouse
>Customer Service Rep.
>Software Enquiry Desk
>SC Ireland 68620
>00353 (0) 18154000
>IBM.COM Service Centre EMEA
>
>www.ibm.com/ie
>
>"Some days your the Windshield
>& some Days your the fly
>What Day are you having?"
>
>
>
>


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp



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Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 15:59:56 +0100
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Subject: Re: 3rd Serpentwar, Nighthawks and Wheel of Time
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: "Gary Stenhouse" <STENGAR@uk.ibm.com>
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 15:59:56 +0100
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Cool, as soon as I can scrounge up the money, from my bank, shall try my
luck.

Thanks & Kind Regards

Gary J Stenhouse
Customer Service Rep.
Software Enquiry Desk
SC Ireland 68620
00353 (0) 18154000
IBM.COM Service Centre EMEA

www.ibm.com/ie

"Some days your the Windshield
& some Days your the fly
What Day are you having?"






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On Tue, 23 Oct 2001 15:59:56  
 Gary Stenhouse wrote:
>
>Cool, as soon as I can scrounge up the money, from my bank, shall try my
>luck.
>
>Thanks & Kind Regards
>


It will be well spent. Because I have troubles reading a book at the
first person ("I did this", "I moved around the corner", etc) I would
not go as far as saying it's impressive, however characters are well
developped and it's the kind of book you are not too sure how it would
end.

Paddyjack


Make a difference, help support the relief efforts in the U.S.
http://clubs.lycos.com/live/events/september11.asp



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Subject: Hobb Series!!
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What's this Hobb series? Can someone explain a bit to me? Who are the
writers and what type of series it is?

                          - Black Dragon



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Subject: Re: 3rd Serpentwar, Nighthawks and Wheel of Time
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Subject: Re: 3rd Serpentwar, Nighthawks and Wheel of Time
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> Probably a lot of us have read them. Jordan was my favorite serie for the
>first 4-5 books, but I'm very disapointed with the way the serie went after
>that. I'm actually reading the last one so far (9th?), and I'm more often
>than not skimming through the book because I feel that most of those
>subplots are useless and not interesting to the story at large. I have the
>habit of reading several books in paralel, so I can really see the
>difference between the two I'm reading right now (Hobb's Assassin serie),
>and why I don't like the last Jordan.
>
> Ray's Empire serie is VERY good by the way, especially if you love a bit
>of politics in your stories.
>
> Paddyjack

Hmm, it looks like that the other books are very bulky like the first three,
perhaps more so. I am scared to start reading them as the first one is 814
page fat. Tell me people, do you like fat fantasy or medium one. I am yet to
read any fatter book than Magician (or perhaps Rage of a Demon King - which
was the more fatter?). And they're also set in small type - those Jordan
books. I don't know if I'll finish them if I start - they're very good if
you listen to the fans. However, I am in Kesh right now with Erland and
Borric is heading to Farafra, and I wonder what would have happened if the
Kingdom allied with Kesh and got some imperial soldiers - maybe Fadawah's
butt would have been nicely kicked!

Anyone here read Tad Williams' 'Memory, Sorrow & Throne' trilogy (?!). They
are also huge books. People keep saying that they're excellent and any real
fantasy lover should read them etc. etc.

Now, what do you people think of Eddings? Is he good? I haven't read the
Belgarid yet, but my cousin's got the whole collection (Bel/Mal/El/Tam) and
I can read them whenever I wish. Suggestions? Well, I better finish
'mainstream' (Rift, Serpent, PoB, TKB & Empire) Feist before going into all
these :)

Being a newbie, I really talk too much. It's 1:15 AM now, and I should read
the 10th chapter of prince of Blood, or should I sleep dreaming of all those
kilt-wearing topless Keshians :)

                            - Black Dragon



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Black Dragon wrote:

>
> > Paddyjack
>
> Hmm, it looks like that the other books are very bulky like the first three,
> perhaps more so. I am scared to start reading them as the first one is 814
> page fat. Tell me people, do you like fat fantasy or medium one. I am yet to
> read any fatter book than Magician (or perhaps Rage of a Demon King - which
> was the more fatter?). And they're also set in small type - those Jordan
> books. I don't know if I'll finish them if I start - they're very good if
> you listen to the fans.

I love the fatter ones, the fatter the better :) Try out Terry Goodkinds (Sword
of Truth series) Wizard's First Rule it is about 800 and than  the Stone of
Tears about 1000 pages long, but I finished them in one day, they were that
good.

AnWar



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Subject: Re: Hobb Series!!
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From: kevykev@sbcglobal.net
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 17:45:34 -0500
Subject: Re: Hobb Series!!
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The "Hobb series" is Farseer trilogy:Assassins 
Apprentice,Royal Assassin,and Assassins Quest by Robin 
Hobb. There is another series The Liveship Traders but 
I haven't read it yet
--- Original Message ---
From: "Black Dragon" <blackdragon@gamebox.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Hobb Series!!

>What's this Hobb series? Can someone explain a bit to me? Who are the
>writers and what type of series it is?
>
>                          - Black Dragon
>



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From: "Chris Smith" <cjs94@zepler.org.uk>
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Subject: Re: Bored, so Brad and I are in a flame war.
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Chris Smith" <cjs94@zepler.org.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 02:21:18 +0100
Subject: Re: Bored, so Brad and I are in a flame war.
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On 16 Oct 2001, at 9:09, Richard Williamson wrote:

> At 08:14 PM 10/15/01 +0100, Chris Smith wrote:
> >I'm curious about the software you invented and I'm in the mood for a 
> >success story at the moment. Would you care to tell me more about it 
> >and perhaps, if you're of a mind, give your trumpet a good blow?
> 
> Can't go into specifics, sorry.  The IP lawyers have been 
> pretty adamant about that.  I'll keep your address in mind,
> though, and once the packet has been accepted by the 
> Patent authority (any day now, It Says Here), I'll forward
> you the patent request.  

Thanks. It'll be interesting to see what a patent request looks like 
too - more idle curiosity...

Chris


--
Chris Smith
Work: chris.smith@tfbplc.co.uk     Home: cjs94@zepler.org.uk
PGP Key available from public key servers; Key ID 0x8586B4B2
"Veni, vidi, velcro." - "I came, I saw, I stuck around."



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From: Allan Mills <milla@css.com.au>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" (FEISTFANS-L) <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: 3rd Serpentwar, Nighthawks and Wheel of Time
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 13:20:40 +1000
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*** EOOH ***
From: Allan Mills <milla@css.com.au>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" (FEISTFANS-L) <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: 3rd Serpentwar, Nighthawks and Wheel of Time
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 13:20:40 +1000
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: Black Dragon [mailto:blackdragon@gamebox.net]
> Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2001 5:17 AM
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Subject: Re: 3rd Serpentwar, Nighthawks and Wheel of Time
> 
> 
> Anyone here read Tad Williams' 'Memory, Sorrow & Throne' 
> trilogy (?!). They
> are also huge books. People keep saying that they're 
> excellent and any real
> fantasy lover should read them etc. etc.
 I've read them. I found them to be quite good, they tread the line between
standard fantasy and dark fantasy. 

> 
> Now, what do you people think of Eddings? Is he good? I 
> haven't read the
> Belgarid yet, but my cousin's got the whole collection 
> (Bel/Mal/El/Tam) and
> I can read them whenever I wish. Suggestions? Well, I better finish
> 'mainstream' (Rift, Serpent, PoB, TKB & Empire) Feist before 
> going into all
> these :)
> 
 I really enjoy the books Eddings has written, they are very much light
fantasy. You should read them for the characters more than the plot though.
The style is very similar between books as well.

 Allan

> Being a newbie, I really talk too much. It's 1:15 AM now, and 
> I should read
> the 10th chapter of prince of Blood, or should I sleep 
> dreaming of all those
> kilt-wearing topless Keshians :)
> 
>                             - Black Dragon
> 
> 



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From: Larry Scroggins <falling_98@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: 3rd Serpentwar, Nighthawks and Wheel of Time
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 21:04:42 -0700 (PDT)
From: Larry Scroggins <falling_98@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: 3rd Serpentwar, Nighthawks and Wheel of Time
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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  Allan Mills <milla@css.com.au> wrote: 


> Anyone here read Tad Williams' 'Memory, Sorrow & Throne' 
> trilogy (?!). They
> are also huge books. People keep saying that they're 
> excellent and any real
> fantasy lover should read them etc. etc.
>I've read them. I found them to be quite good, they tread the line between
>standard fantasy and dark fantasy. 

Memory, Sorrow and Thorn was a great series... right up until the
climax.  I thought TW served up a really lame ending.  It was like he
had written so much that he just got bored.  I should read it again,
but I'm not sure I've got the time.

> 
> Now, what do you people think of Eddings? Is he good? I 
> haven't read the
> Belgarid yet, but my cousin's got the whole collection 
> (Bel/Mal/El/Tam) and
> I can read them whenever I wish. Suggestions? Well, I better finish
> 'mainstream' (Rift, Serpent, PoB, TKB & Empire) Feist before 
> going into all
> these :)
> 
>I really enjoy the books Eddings has written, they are very much light
>fantasy. You should read them for the characters more than the plot though.
>The style is very similar between books as well.

Don't you mean you enjoyed Eddings' book?  He's only got one, he just
changes the names of the characters.  One set of characters: the hero,
the thief, the matriarch, the patriarch, the strong man... I'm sure
I'm forgetting one or two, but anyone who's read Eddings' stuff knows
what I mean.  What about plot?  Once again, he's only got one.
There's a blue jewel with immense power that can destroy the world,
and the group has to band together to protect it.  Don't get me wrong,
I enjoy his stuff.  I just wish he'd come up with some new ideas.





-----------------------------------------------------------------

Larry Scroggins


---------------------------------
Do You Yahoo!?
Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals.

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Subject: Re: 3rd Serpentwar, Nighthawks and Wheel of Time
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From: "Darragh Murray" <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: 3rd Serpentwar, Nighthawks and Wheel of Time
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 14:05:03 +1000
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Many people read "Tigana" by Guy Gaviel Kay?


It's brilliant. Politics, action, adventure....everything...

very complex story


----- Original Message ----- 
From: Gary Stenhouse <STENGAR@uk.ibm.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2001 12:25 AM
Subject: Re: 3rd Serpentwar, Nighthawks and Wheel of Time


> 
> Is the hobb series anygood?, its one of those ones I have not started yet
> currently reading Celtika  Robert Holdstock merlin series pretty good so
> far.
> 
> Thanks & Kind Regards
> 
> Gary J Stenhouse
> Customer Service Rep.
> Software Enquiry Desk
> SC Ireland 68620
> 00353 (0) 18154000
> IBM.COM Service Centre EMEA
> 
> www.ibm.com/ie
> 
> "Some days your the Windshield
> & some Days your the fly
> What Day are you having?"
> 
> 
> 
> 



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Subject: Re: 3rd Serpentwar, Nighthawks and Wheel of Time
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From: "Darragh Murray" <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: 3rd Serpentwar, Nighthawks and Wheel of Time
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 14:07:40 +1000
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> Hmm, it looks like that the other books are very bulky like the first three,
> perhaps more so. I am scared to start reading them as the first one is 814
> page fat. Tell me people, do you like fat fantasy or medium one. I am yet to
> read any fatter book than Magician (or perhaps Rage of a Demon King - which
> was the more fatter?). And they're also set in small type - those Jordan
> books. I don't know if I'll finish them if I start - they're very good if
> you listen to the fans. However, I am in Kesh right now with Erland and
> Borric is heading to Farafra, and I wonder what would have happened if the
> Kingdom allied with Kesh and got some imperial soldiers - maybe Fadawah's
> butt would have been nicely kicked!

George R.R. Martin's books are very fat, very complex, and very good.
I don't have a preference for "fat fantasy" and medium ones, just need a
good story

> Anyone here read Tad Williams' 'Memory, Sorrow & Throne' trilogy (?!). They
> are also huge books. People keep saying that they're excellent and any real
> fantasy lover should read them etc. etc.

Memory Sorrow and Thorn (not Throne) is a great read. The first book takes a
bit to start up, but it turns out to be great

> Now, what do you people think of Eddings? Is he good? I haven't read the
> Belgarid yet, but my cousin's got the whole collection (Bel/Mal/El/Tam) and
> I can read them whenever I wish. Suggestions? Well, I better finish
> 'mainstream' (Rift, Serpent, PoB, TKB & Empire) Feist before going into all
> these :)

Eddings is also very good.

> Being a newbie, I really talk too much. It's 1:15 AM now, and I should read
> the 10th chapter of prince of Blood, or should I sleep dreaming of all those
> kilt-wearing topless Keshians :)
>                             - Black Dragon



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Subject: Re: 3rd Serpentwar, Nighthawks and Wheel of Time
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 21:21:27 -0700
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From: "C.T. Cusimano" <supert@redshift.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: 3rd Serpentwar, Nighthawks and Wheel of Time
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 21:21:27 -0700
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>
>  ----- Original Message ----- 
>  From: Larry Scroggins 
>  To: FEISTFANS-L 
>  Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2001 9:04 PM
>  Subject: RE: 3rd Serpentwar, Nighthawks and Wheel of Time
>
>
>
>    Allan Mills <milla@css.com.au> wrote: 
>
>
>
>    > Anyone here read Tad Williams' 'Memory, Sorrow & Throne' 
>    > trilogy (?!). They
>    > are also huge books. People keep saying that they're 
>    > excellent and any real
>    > fantasy lover should read them etc. etc.
>    >I've read them. I found them to be quite good, they tread the line between
>    >standard fantasy and dark fantasy. 
>
>    Memory, Sorrow and Thorn was a great series... right up until the climax.  I thought TW served up a really lame ending.  It was like he had written so much that he just got bored.  I should read it again, but I'm not sure I've got the time.
>
>    > 
>    > Now, what do you people think of Eddings? Is he good? I 
>    > haven't read the
>    > Belgarid yet, but my cousin's got the whole collection 
>    > (Bel/Mal/El/Tam) and
>    > I can read them whenever I wish. Suggestions? Well, I better finish
>    > 'mainstream' (Rift, Serpent, PoB, TKB & Empire) Feist before 
>    > going into all
>    > these :)
>    > 
>    >I really enjoy the books Eddings has written, they are very much light
>    >fantasy. You should read them for the characters more than the plot though.
>    >The style is very similar between books as well.
>
>    Don't you mean you enjoyed Eddings' book?  He's only got one, he just changes the names of the characters.  One set of characters: the hero, the thief, the matriarch, the patriarch, the strong man... I'm sure I'm forgetting one or two, but anyone who's read Eddings' stuff knows what I mean.  What about plot?  Once again, he's only got one.  There's a blue jewel with immense power that can destroy the world, and the group has to band together to protect it.  Don't get me wrong, I enjoy his stuff.  I just wish he'd come up with some new ideas.
>
    I totally agree with Larry on this point

>
>
>
>  -----------------------------------------------------------------
>
>  Larry Scroggins
>
>
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  Do You Yahoo!?
>  Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals.

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Subject: Re: 3rd Serpentwar, Nighthawks and Wheel of Time
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Subject: Re: 3rd Serpentwar, Nighthawks and Wheel of Time
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> I love the fatter ones, the fatter the better :) Try out Terry Goodkinds (Sword
> of Truth series) Wizard's First Rule it is about 800 and than  the Stone of
> Tears about 1000 pages long, but I finished them in one day, they were that
> good.

I'm not saying that I don't like fatter ones, but the problem is when you
start them and if you dislike them, you have to go through the nexy - say,
600 pages to complete them :) However, If I don't like them, I don't read
'em.



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From: Allan Mills <milla@css.com.au>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" (FEISTFANS-L) <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: 3rd Serpentwar, Nighthawks and Wheel of Time
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From: Allan Mills <milla@css.com.au>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" (FEISTFANS-L) <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: 3rd Serpentwar, Nighthawks and Wheel of Time
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 15:06:54 +1000
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 Check your e-mail settings please. Make sure you aren't sending in HTML
format.

 The last book that Eddings (co)wrote didn't feature an all powerful jewel
so that argument is no longer valid. He style does lead him reusing certain
stereotypes somewhat. As I said though, the plot takes a back seat to the
characters in his books. The similarities don't worry me in the slightest.

 Allan

-----Original Message-----
>From: Larry Scroggins [mailto:falling_98@yahoo.com]
>Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2001 2:05 PM
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: RE: 3rd Serpentwar, Nighthawks and Wheel of Time
>
>
>  Allan Mills <milla@css.com.au> wrote: 
>
>
>> 
>>I really enjoy the books Eddings has written, they are very much light
>>fantasy. You should read them for the characters more than the plot though.
>>The style is very similar between books as well.
>Don't you mean you enjoyed Eddings' book?  He's only got one, he just
>changes the names of the characters.  One set of characters: the hero, the
>thief, the matriarch, the patriarch, the strong man... I'm sure I'm
>forgetting one or two, but anyone who's read Eddings' stuff knows what I
>mean.  What about plot?  Once again, he's only got one.  There's a blue
>jewel with immense power that can destroy the world, and the group has to
>band together to protect it.  Don't get me wrong, I enjoy his stuff.  I just
>wish he'd come up with some new ideas.
>
>
>
>
>
>-----------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Larry Scroggins
>
>
>
>
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals.
>
>

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Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 15:32:57 +1000 (EST)
From: David Smith - NT Interoperability Engineer <David.M.Smith@Sun.COM>
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: 3rd Serpentwar, Nighthawks and Wheel of Time
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

» > I love the fatter ones, the fatter the better :) Try out Terry Goodkinds
» (Sword
» > of Truth series) Wizard's First Rule it is about 800 and than  the Stone
» of
» > Tears about 1000 pages long, but I finished them in one day, they were
» that
» > good.
» 
» I'm not saying that I don't like fatter ones, but the problem is when you
» start them and if you dislike them, you have to go through the nexy - say,
» 600 pages to complete them :) However, If I don't like them, I don't read
» 'em.

I know what you mean. Take the Sword of Truth series mentioned above. I found 
Wizards First Rule to be really good, Stone of Tears was almost as good, Blood 
of the Fold was OK, and I only made it about a third of the way through Temple 
of Winds before putting it down in disgust. I really hate doing that because I 
hate leaving a book unfinished.

-- David Smith



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Subject: RE: 3rd Serpentwar, Nighthawks and Wheel of Time
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Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 15:56:45 +1000
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Alex Loke <nerf@alphalink.com.au>
Subject: RE: 3rd Serpentwar, Nighthawks and Wheel of Time
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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At 09:04 PM 23/10/2001 -0700, you wrote: 
>Don't you mean you enjoyed Eddings' book?  He's only got one, he just
>changes the names of the characters.  One set of characters: the hero, the
>thief, the matriarch, the patriarch, the strong man... 
>I'm sure I'm forgetting one or two, but anyone who's read Eddings' stuff
>knows what I mean.  What about plot?  Once again, he's only got one.
>There's a blue jewel with immense power that can destroy the world, and
>the group has to band together to protect it.  Don't get me wrong, I enjoy
>his stuff.  I just wish he'd come up with some new ideas.

I think it's a little more complex than that. Eddings was just as astute as
the average reader, at least enough to realise the similarities. That being
said, his awareness of these similarities shows that he wasn't just 'being
lazy' and churning out the 'same' story. Some of his commentaries on
writing his four first series' are actually quite interesting.

When one gets down to it, the set of characters are present in most fantasy
(I'm thinking Hero with 1000 Faces). Eddings simply doesn't bother to hide
them. I think, in this, he was aiming for a cynical mythic fantasy.

Regards,

Alex Loke



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From: "garywright" <garywright@xtra.co.nz>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: 3rd Serpentwar, Nighthawks and Wheel of Time
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 19:01:00 +1300
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


----- Original Message -----
From: "David Smith - NT Interoperability Engineer" <David.M.Smith@Sun.COM>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2001 6:32 PM
Subject: Re: 3rd Serpentwar, Nighthawks and Wheel of Time


> » > I love the fatter ones, the fatter the better :) Try out Terry Goodkinds
> » (Sword
> » > of Truth series) Wizard's First Rule it is about 800 and than  the Stone
> » of
> » > Tears about 1000 pages long, but I finished them in one day, they were
> » that
> » > good.
> »
> » I'm not saying that I don't like fatter ones, but the problem is when you
> » start them and if you dislike them, you have to go through the nexy - say,
> » 600 pages to complete them :) However, If I don't like them, I don't read
> » 'em.
>
> I know what you mean. Take the Sword of Truth series mentioned above. I found
> Wizards First Rule to be really good, Stone of Tears was almost as good, Blood
> of the Fold was OK, and I only made it about a third of the way through Temple
> of Winds before putting it down in disgust. I really hate doing that because I
> hate leaving a book unfinished.
>
> -- David Smith
>
I did the same thing, put down Temple of the Winds in disgust. . :) But then
I went back to it 6 months later, and for some reason it was ok. Then I read
the next 2, Soul of The Fire, and Faith of the Fallen, and they were great.
Can't wait till the next one next month :).



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To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" (FEISTFANS-L) <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: 3rd Serpentwar, Nighthawks and Wheel of Time
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*** EOOH ***
From: Allan Mills <milla@css.com.au>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" (FEISTFANS-L) <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: 3rd Serpentwar, Nighthawks and Wheel of Time
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 16:11:36 +1000
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu



> -----Original Message-----
> From: David Smith - NT Interoperability Engineer
> [mailto:David.M.Smith@Sun.COM]
> Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2001 3:33 PM
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Subject: Re: 3rd Serpentwar, Nighthawks and Wheel of Time
> I know what you mean. Take the Sword of Truth series 
> mentioned above. I found 
> Wizards First Rule to be really good, Stone of Tears was 
> almost as good, Blood 
> of the Fold was OK, and I only made it about a third of the 
> way through Temple 
> of Winds before putting it down in disgust. I really hate 
> doing that because I 
> hate leaving a book unfinished.
> 
> -- David Smith
> 
> 

 I stopped reading that series after Blood of the Fold. As a rule I don't
like dark fantasy and each book was getting progressively darker. They
weren't bad books but they moved away from my personal preference.

 Allan



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 16:18:26 +1000 (EST)
From: David Smith - NT Interoperability Engineer <David.M.Smith@Sun.COM>
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: 3rd Serpentwar, Nighthawks and Wheel of Time
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

» > I know what you mean. Take the Sword of Truth series mentioned above. I
» found
» > Wizards First Rule to be really good, Stone of Tears was almost as good,
» Blood
» > of the Fold was OK, and I only made it about a third of the way through
» Temple
» > of Winds before putting it down in disgust. I really hate doing that
» because I
» > hate leaving a book unfinished.
» >
» > -- David Smith
» >
» I did the same thing, put down Temple of the Winds in disgust. . :) But then
» I went back to it 6 months later, and for some reason it was ok. Then I read
» the next 2, Soul of The Fire, and Faith of the Fallen, and they were great.
» Can't wait till the next one next month :).

I've been thinking of giving it another try, maybe I will... later. At the 
moment I have Glen Cook's Black Company books to go through, I'm half way 
through the 2nd with another 7 to go :). Then there's Mark Chadbourn's Darkest 
Hour, book 2 of The Age of Misrule series (if you enjoyed Faerie Tale you'll 
almost certainly enjoy this series). Hopefully by then Ray will have his next 
book hitting the shelves :)

-- David Smith



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Subject: Re: 3rd Serpentwar, Nighthawks and Wheel of Time
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Barker" <heechee@softhome.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: 3rd Serpentwar, Nighthawks and Wheel of Time
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 16:48:17 +1000
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----- Original Message -----
From: David Smith - NT Interoperability Engineer <David.M.Smith@Sun.COM>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2001 4:18 PM
Subject: Re: 3rd Serpentwar, Nighthawks and Wheel of Time


> » > I know what you mean. Take the Sword of Truth series mentioned above. I
> » found
> » > Wizards First Rule to be really good, Stone of Tears was almost as good,
> » Blood
> » > of the Fold was OK, and I only made it about a third of the way through
> » Temple
> » > of Winds before putting it down in disgust. I really hate doing that
> » because I
> » > hate leaving a book unfinished.
> » >
> » > -- David Smith
> » >
> » I did the same thing, put down Temple of the Winds in disgust. . :) But then
> » I went back to it 6 months later, and for some reason it was ok. Then I read
> » the next 2, Soul of The Fire, and Faith of the Fallen, and they were great.
> » Can't wait till the next one next month :).
>
> I've been thinking of giving it another try, maybe I will... later. At the
> moment I have Glen Cook's Black Company books to go through, I'm half way
> through the 2nd with another 7 to go :). Then there's Mark Chadbourn's Darkest
> Hour, book 2 of The Age of Misrule series (if you enjoyed Faerie Tale you'll
> almost certainly enjoy this series). Hopefully by then Ray will have his next
> book hitting the shelves :)

For some very good, and very obscure fantasy, go and pick up the Gormenghast
trilogy, by Mervyn Peake. Easily my favourite fantasy novels.

Also noteworthy is H.P. Lovecraft. His Cthulhu stuff is great, but I fell
totally in love with the "trippy" style of writing found in his Dream Cycle,
and most of his non-Cthulhu stories, for that matter. It's particularly
interesting to read fantasy written before Tolkien produced LotR.

Cheers,
James



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From: "Natalie Henderson" <natz101@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Hobb Series!!
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 08:21:23 +0000
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From: "Natalie Henderson" <natz101@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Hobb Series!!
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 08:21:23 +0000
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The Liveship Traders series is even better than the Assassin series. It's 
one of those trilogys that weaves many different subplots together so that 
at the end of each chapter you want to know what happens to character a next 
but soon get involved with character b and so on. It definitely reminded me 
of Ray a lot!!

Hobb has also just brought out a new book as a follow up to the assassin 
series. She also used to write under the name of Megan Lindholm. She just 
released a series under that name - I can't remember what its called but its 
a lot like Clan of the Cave Bear.

Anyway thats all my knowledge but you can buy the books all over the 
internet if you want a good read!!! They're just my type of thing anyway!! 
:)

Natalie

>From: kevykev@sbcglobal.net
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
>Subject: Re: Hobb Series!!
>Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 17:45:34 -0500
>
>The "Hobb series" is Farseer trilogy:Assassins
>Apprentice,Royal Assassin,and Assassins Quest by Robin
>Hobb. There is another series The Liveship Traders but
>I haven't read it yet
>--- Original Message ---
>From: "Black Dragon" <blackdragon@gamebox.net>
>To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
>Subject: Hobb Series!!
>
> >What's this Hobb series? Can someone explain a bit to
>me? Who are the
> >writers and what type of series it is?
> >
> >                          - Black Dragon
> >
>


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp



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Subject: Re: 3rd Serpentwar, Nighthawks and Wheel of Time
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From: "Donal K. Fellows" <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: 3rd Serpentwar, Nighthawks and Wheel of Time
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 11:06:20 +0100
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"C.T. Cusimano" <supert@redshift.com>
>     I totally agree with Larry on this point

You quoted over 50 lines of text just to say "I agree" without any
extra insightful input?  (You sent it in HTML too, but that's a
separate sin.)  Don't you think you could have had the courtesy to
give us a little bit more fascinating reasoning about why you think
that as reward for reading your message, or are we to conclude that
Larry does your thinking for you?  (Hope not, but you never know!)

OK, maybe that's a little harsh.  But getting those reasons out in the
open not only makes for a better discussion (for example, if you just
come out and say "I like dogs", there's not much to discuss, but if
you say why then it becomes possible for other people to compare it
with their own experiences) but also helps to sharpen up your own
thought processes.  The way to be smart is to use those little grey
cells, and practise really helps!

Donal.
-- 
Donal K. Fellows, Department of Computer Science, University of Manchester, UK.
(work) fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk     Tel: +44-161-275-6137  (preferred email addr.)
(home) donal@ugglan.demon.co.uk  Tel: +44-1274-401017   Mobile: +44-7957-298955
http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~fellowsd/  (Don't quote my .sig; I've seen it before!)



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To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
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Subject: Re: 3rd Serpentwar, Nighthawks and Wheel of Time
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 17:07:06 +0600
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From: "Black Dragon" <blackdragon@gamebox.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: 3rd Serpentwar, Nighthawks and Wheel of Time
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 17:07:06 +0600
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> The way to be smart is to use those little grey
> cells, and practise really helps!

Donal,

Does using the grey cells really help in
improving your intelligence?

I don't know where, but I read somewhere that
it does little. However, a year or two ago
TIME posted an article where they said that
using grey cells help improve intelligence.

Who knows? Have you got any reliable source
for your data? I'm interested in knowing more
'bout this.

                          - Black Dragon




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Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 13:51:19 +0200
Subject: Re: 3rd Serpentwar, Nighthawks and Wheel of Time
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Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 13:51:19 +0200
Subject: Re: 3rd Serpentwar, Nighthawks and Wheel of Time
From: Ramon van Asselt <r.vanasselt@scans-en-sites.nl>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
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> Van: "Black Dragon" <blackdragon@gamebox.net>
> Beantwoord: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Datum: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 17:07:06 +0600
> Aan: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
> Onderwerp: Re: 3rd Serpentwar, Nighthawks and Wheel of Time
> 
>> The way to be smart is to use those little
> grey
>> cells, and practise really helps!
> 
> Donal,
> 
> Does using the grey cells really help in
> improving your intelligence?
> 
> I don't know where, but I read somewhere that
> it does little. However, a year or two ago
> TIME posted an article where they said that
> using grey cells help improve intelligence.
> 
> Who knows? Have you got any reliable source
> for your data? I'm interested in knowing more
> 'bout this.
> 
> - Black Dragon
> 
> 
> 

Hi,

I remember a research that indicates reading for 15 minutes a day improves
happiness. It was a British research (they probably didn't know what to do
with their extra funds;-)). Keeping this in mind, we should be grateful for
having the opportunity to read long articles over and over again. I feel
happier already. But still, adding text to the long articles would increase
my happiness even more...

Sorry for being of topic but I figured it was about time to become a more
active participant.


Ramon van Asselt



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In-reply-to: <000e01c15bb2$de8d6800$2222becb@x8f0o7> (blackdragon@gamebox.net)
Subject: Re: 3rd Serpentwar, Nighthawks and Wheel of Time
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Donal K. Fellows" <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: 3rd Serpentwar, Nighthawks and Wheel of Time
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 13:34:05 +0100
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"Black Dragon" <blackdragon@gamebox.net>
> Does using the grey cells really help in
> improving your intelligence?

It's fairly well known that even adult human brains are fairly
plastic, and that the ways in which they are used influences how they
are connected, and that it is the connections that control how smart
you are[*].  Not much of a jump to go from there to saying that
thinking in an intelligent fashion (note that I'm not equating IQ with
intelligence for the purposes of this argument; IQ's too blunt an
instrument as it is just a single number and probably does not measure
exactly what most people really think of as "intelligence") helps you
think intelligently in the future.  It also makes sense if you look at
what is going on in education; there, a lot of effort is put into
trying to get people to discover *how* to learn, but that's surely
just a way to make neural development proceed along richer pathways
toward sophisticated analytical thought?  Certainly, many of the facts
that you learn at school are not that practically useful in later
life; I'll let you supply your own examples here...

Donal.
[* IIRC, most people have about the same number of neurons with the
   same cellular response levels, so the great variation in
   intelligence is not usually due to variations in those factors. ]
-- 
Donal K. Fellows, Department of Computer Science, University of Manchester, UK.
(work) fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk     Tel: +44-161-275-6137  (preferred email addr.)
(home) donal@ugglan.demon.co.uk  Tel: +44-1274-401017   Mobile: +44-7957-298955
http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~fellowsd/  (Don't quote my .sig; I've seen it before!)



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Subject: RE: 3rd Serpentwar, Nighthawks and Wheel of Time
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From: "Osland, Andy" <Andy.Osland@bankofamerica.com>
Subject: RE: 3rd Serpentwar, Nighthawks and Wheel of Time
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<Snip>
<Snip>

>Actually the word 'assassin' comes from the Latin word "assassinus" which
>in turn is derived from the Arabic word "hassasin" which means hashish
>user.  The word was used to describe a group of Islamic killers from the
>11th Century who preyed on Christian Crusaders for violating Islamic holy
>sites.  They were promised paradise for killing their enemies (and dying
>the process).  The order extensively used hashish to induce feelings of
>pleasure and delude their their members in believing this was what awaited
>them in paradise.
>
>Regards
>
>James Turnbull

<Snip>
<Snip>

	There is a book written by Louis L'Amoir called "The Walking Drum"
that has some of the assassins in it (the old, original assassins). It's a
very, very good book.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0553280406/qid=1003928405/sr=8-1/ref=
sr_8_3_1/103-2743376-4914234 . I've read it once, but I just got it in my
blood to read it again :).

Andy



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Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 23:34:56 +1000
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From: Alex Loke <nerf@alphalink.com.au>
Subject: RE: 3rd Serpentwar, Nighthawks and Wheel of Time
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At 09:05 AM 24/10/2001 -0400, you wrote:
>>Actually the word 'assassin' comes from the Latin word "assassinus" which
>>in turn is derived from the Arabic word "hassasin" which means hashish
>>user.  The word was used to describe a group of Islamic killers from the
>>11th Century who preyed on Christian Crusaders for violating Islamic holy
>>sites.  They were promised paradise for killing their enemies (and dying
>>the process).  The order extensively used hashish to induce feelings of
>>pleasure and delude their their members in believing this was what awaited
>>them in paradise.

The word was "hashashim" meaning 'eater of hashish'. There are various
spellings, but that seems to be the prevailing one. It's difficult to tell
exactly when they began, though it is thought that they came to prominence
around the time of Saladin. The later corruption of the word in modern
times was due to many different sources, Latin being only one of them.

Regards,

Alex Loke



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From: "Alvaro Santos" <weretraira@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Origem da palavra "ASSASSINO"
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 14:18:41 -0200
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From: "Alvaro Santos" <weretraira@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Origem da palavra "ASSASSINO"
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 14:18:41 -0200
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Curioso... Eu ja tinha ouvido essa historia, mas nao muito por alto...
Quer dizer que tem esses malucos desde o seculo 11???
:)


"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away".
Philip K. Dick



>From: Alex Loke <nerf@alphalink.com.au>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
>Subject: RE: 3rd Serpentwar, Nighthawks and Wheel of Time
>Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 23:34:56 +1000
>
>At 09:05 AM 24/10/2001 -0400, you wrote:
> >>Actually the word 'assassin' comes from the Latin word "assassinus" 
>which
> >>in turn is derived from the Arabic word "hassasin" which means hashish
> >>user.  The word was used to describe a group of Islamic killers from the
> >>11th Century who preyed on Christian Crusaders for violating Islamic 
>holy
> >>sites.  They were promised paradise for killing their enemies (and dying
> >>the process).  The order extensively used hashish to induce feelings of
> >>pleasure and delude their their members in believing this was what 
>awaited
> >>them in paradise.
>
>The word was "hashashim" meaning 'eater of hashish'. There are various
>spellings, but that seems to be the prevailing one. It's difficult to tell
>exactly when they began, though it is thought that they came to prominence
>around the time of Saladin. The later corruption of the word in modern
>times was due to many different sources, Latin being only one of them.
>
>Regards,
>
>Alex Loke
>


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp



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I am Sorry! I wanted to foward the message to a friend, didnt want to reply 
to the list in portuguese, my most sincere apologies.

Alvaro

"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away".
Philip K. Dick



>From: Alex Loke <nerf@alphalink.com.au>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
>Subject: RE: 3rd Serpentwar, Nighthawks and Wheel of Time
>Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 23:34:56 +1000
>
>At 09:05 AM 24/10/2001 -0400, you wrote:
> >>Actually the word 'assassin' comes from the Latin word "assassinus" 
>which
> >>in turn is derived from the Arabic word "hassasin" which means hashish
> >>user.  The word was used to describe a group of Islamic killers from the
> >>11th Century who preyed on Christian Crusaders for violating Islamic 
>holy
> >>sites.  They were promised paradise for killing their enemies (and dying
> >>the process).  The order extensively used hashish to induce feelings of
> >>pleasure and delude their their members in believing this was what 
>awaited
> >>them in paradise.
>
>The word was "hashashim" meaning 'eater of hashish'. There are various
>spellings, but that seems to be the prevailing one. It's difficult to tell
>exactly when they began, though it is thought that they came to prominence
>around the time of Saladin. The later corruption of the word in modern
>times was due to many different sources, Latin being only one of them.
>
>Regards,
>
>Alex Loke
>


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp



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On Wed, 24 Oct 2001 14:05:03  
 Darragh Murray wrote:
>Many people read "Tigana" by Guy Gaviel Kay?
>
>
>It's brilliant. Politics, action, adventure....everything...
>
>very complex story
>

I like all of Kay's books. He is one of the few who make me sad to end
a book simply because he makes me love the characters so much I have a
feeling of loss when I close the book. "The Sarantine mosaic" is so
far for me the best exemple of that.

Paddyjack


>
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: Gary Stenhouse <STENGAR@uk.ibm.com>
>To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
>Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2001 12:25 AM
>Subject: Re: 3rd Serpentwar, Nighthawks and Wheel of Time
>
>
>> 
>> Is the hobb series anygood?, its one of those ones I have not started yet
>> currently reading Celtika  Robert Holdstock merlin series pretty good so
>> far.
>> 
>> Thanks & Kind Regards
>> 
>> Gary J Stenhouse
>> Customer Service Rep.
>> Software Enquiry Desk
>> SC Ireland 68620
>> 00353 (0) 18154000
>> IBM.COM Service Centre EMEA
>> 
>> www.ibm.com/ie
>> 
>> "Some days your the Windshield
>> & some Days your the fly
>> What Day are you having?"
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>
>


Make a difference, help support the relief efforts in the U.S.
http://clubs.lycos.com/live/events/september11.asp



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From: Terry Corbett <macros102@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: 3rd Serpentwar, Nighthawks and Wheel of Time
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 11:19:50 -0700 (PDT)
From: Terry Corbett <macros102@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: 3rd Serpentwar, Nighthawks and Wheel of Time
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

That's an interesting question.  I discovered Feist
after reading the 9 WoT books.  I don't really expect
much from the next one, especially if it's NOT the
finale, but I hadn't even considered that Feist might
have ruined WoT for me. :)  I mean, it's obvious that
at least the last 3 or 4 WoT books are nothing
compared to Magician...well, let's face it.  There's
little out there that CAN compare with Magician. :) 
I'm just hoping that Jordan can get out of whatever
slump he's in and put a little more freshness in the
WoT.

Terry Corbett

> Have anyone of you read Robert Jordn's Wheel of Time
> Series *after reading
> Feist books*? Are they good when read after Feist
> books? I have got the
> first 3 parts, but have not touched those yet. Any
> suggetions?
> 
>                           - Black Dragon
> 


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Subject: Re: Hobb Series!!
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Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 11:50:30 -0700 (PDT)
From: Terry Corbett <macros102@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Hobb Series!!
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I've heard of Robin Hobb, though I haven't read any of
her stuff yet.  I just now stumbled upon her website
and I'm very confused about something.  Are Robin
Hobbs and Megan Lindholm the same person?  I'm
confused about this because part of the Lindholm site
mentioned that some readers liked BOTH authors.

Terry Corbett

--- Natalie Henderson <natz101@hotmail.com> wrote:
> The Liveship Traders series is even better than the
> Assassin series. It's 
> one of those trilogys that weaves many different
> subplots together so that 
> at the end of each chapter you want to know what
> happens to character a next 
> but soon get involved with character b and so on. It
> definitely reminded me 
> of Ray a lot!!
> 
> Hobb has also just brought out a new book as a
> follow up to the assassin 
> series. She also used to write under the name of
> Megan Lindholm. She just 
> released a series under that name - I can't remember
> what its called but its 
> a lot like Clan of the Cave Bear.
> 
> Anyway thats all my knowledge but you can buy the
> books all over the 
> internet if you want a good read!!! They're just my
> type of thing anyway!! 
> :)
> 
> Natalie
> 
> >From: kevykev@sbcglobal.net
> >Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> >To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
> >Subject: Re: Hobb Series!!
> >Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 17:45:34 -0500
> >
> >The "Hobb series" is Farseer trilogy:Assassins
> >Apprentice,Royal Assassin,and Assassins Quest by
> Robin
> >Hobb. There is another series The Liveship Traders
> but
> >I haven't read it yet
> >--- Original Message ---
> >From: "Black Dragon" <blackdragon@gamebox.net>
> >To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
> >Subject: Hobb Series!!
> >
> > >What's this Hobb series? Can someone explain a
> bit to
> >me? Who are the
> > >writers and what type of series it is?
> > >
> > >                          - Black Dragon
> > >
> >
> 
> 
>
_________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
> http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
> 


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From: Terry Corbett <macros102@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: 3rd Serpentwar, Nighthawks and Wheel of Time
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Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 12:13:14 -0700 (PDT)
From: Terry Corbett <macros102@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: 3rd Serpentwar, Nighthawks and Wheel of Time
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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I bought all of Terry Goodkind's paperbacks last
month, though I haven't read them yet.  Boredom and a
good amount of free, online cash can be a dangerous
combination. :)  I've heard that they're good, though.

I was wondering, have any of you read Elizabeth
Haydon's Rhapsody Trilogy?  Haydon's a new author and
Rhapsody is her first attempt, but it's wonderful! 
Since she is a harpist and a singer, music is major
theme in the trilogy.  It's about a singer, an
assassin, and a sergent-major who meet by accident (or
prehaps destiny) and become the Three who are the only
ones who can save the world.  "A rhapsody is a piece
of music that has many different colors together in a
changeable pattern," to quote the author, and the
Trilogy is very much like that.  The story at times
segements into sub-plots, but stays intertwined and it
always comes back together without losing anything. 
Kind of what Jordan was trying to do with WoT. :)

Terry Corbett

> I did the same thing, put down Temple of the Winds
> in disgust. . :) But then
> I went back to it 6 months later, and for some
> reason it was ok. Then I read
> the next 2, Soul of The Fire, and Faith of the
> Fallen, and they were great.
> Can't wait till the next one next month :).
> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals.
http://personals.yahoo.com



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Subject: Re: 3rd Serpentwar, Nighthawks and Wheel of Time
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From: Valheru89@aol.com
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 15:27:12 EDT
Subject: Re: 3rd Serpentwar, Nighthawks and Wheel of Time
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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In a message dated 10/23/2001 8:27:05 PM Pacific Daylight Time, 
milla@css.com.au writes:


> dreaming of all those
> > kilt-wearing topless Keshians :)

Personally Black Dragon I would go with the second one! :)

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References: <E3A4AA1DA7B41849A632450233B5423A177F6F@css01.css.com.au>
Subject: Re: 3rd Serpentwar, Nighthawks and Wheel of Time
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 12:44:50 -0700
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From: "kevin" <kevykev@sbcglobal.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: 3rd Serpentwar, Nighthawks and Wheel of Time
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 12:44:50 -0700
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A fantasy series I like is the Eternal Champion by Michael Moorcock. A 15
book series is FAT. Some stories are similar like Eddings but Moorcock
acknowledges diverse inspiration. I still haven't read them all and some are
out of print.Though there will always be Elric, a very rich character that
reflects...no never mind I'll let you read it yourselves.
                    kevykev
----- Original Message -----
From: "Allan Mills" <milla@css.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2001 8:20 PM
Subject: RE: 3rd Serpentwar, Nighthawks and Wheel of Time


>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Black Dragon [mailto:blackdragon@gamebox.net]
> > Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2001 5:17 AM
> > To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > Subject: Re: 3rd Serpentwar, Nighthawks and Wheel of Time
> >
> >
> > Anyone here read Tad Williams' 'Memory, Sorrow & Throne'
> > trilogy (?!). They
> > are also huge books. People keep saying that they're
> > excellent and any real
> > fantasy lover should read them etc. etc.
>  I've read them. I found them to be quite good, they tread the line between
> standard fantasy and dark fantasy.
>
> >
> > Now, what do you people think of Eddings? Is he good? I
> > haven't read the
> > Belgarid yet, but my cousin's got the whole collection
> > (Bel/Mal/El/Tam) and
> > I can read them whenever I wish. Suggestions? Well, I better finish
> > 'mainstream' (Rift, Serpent, PoB, TKB & Empire) Feist before
> > going into all
> > these :)
> >
>  I really enjoy the books Eddings has written, they are very much light
> fantasy. You should read them for the characters more than the plot though.
> The style is very similar between books as well.
>
>  Allan
>
> > Being a newbie, I really talk too much. It's 1:15 AM now, and
> > I should read
> > the 10th chapter of prince of Blood, or should I sleep
> > dreaming of all those
> > kilt-wearing topless Keshians :)
> >
> >                             - Black Dragon
> >
> >
>



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Subject: Re: 3rd Serpentwar, Nighthawks and Wheel of Time
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 12:59:05 -0700
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From: "kevin" <kevykev@sbcglobal.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: 3rd Serpentwar, Nighthawks and Wheel of Time
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 12:59:05 -0700
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I' read WoT after Rift, Serpent Wars, and Riftwar Legacy. I like the story
when it centers around Rand and to a lesser extent Mat and Perrin. When
Jordan branches off into the subquest of Elayne,Egwene, etc. is where I fall
asleep. Where the Dragon Reborn is,there's excitement and action. I think in
Mr. Feists works there's a balance of action and drama between major and
minor characters, so the whole book has depth and the necessary backround.

           kevykev
----- Original Message -----
From: "Terry Corbett" <macros102@yahoo.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2001 11:19 AM
Subject: Re: 3rd Serpentwar, Nighthawks and Wheel of Time


> That's an interesting question.  I discovered Feist
> after reading the 9 WoT books.  I don't really expect
> much from the next one, especially if it's NOT the
> finale, but I hadn't even considered that Feist might
> have ruined WoT for me. :)  I mean, it's obvious that
> at least the last 3 or 4 WoT books are nothing
> compared to Magician...well, let's face it.  There's
> little out there that CAN compare with Magician. :)
> I'm just hoping that Jordan can get out of whatever
> slump he's in and put a little more freshness in the
> WoT.
>
> Terry Corbett
>
> > Have anyone of you read Robert Jordn's Wheel of Time
> > Series *after reading
> > Feist books*? Are they good when read after Feist
> > books? I have got the
> > first 3 parts, but have not touched those yet. Any
> > suggetions?
> >
> >                           - Black Dragon
> >
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals.
> http://personals.yahoo.com
>



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Subject: Re: 3rd Serpentwar, Nighthawks and Wheel of Time
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Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 16:22:08 -0700 (PDT)
From: Robert S Evans <roevans@linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: 3rd Serpentwar, Nighthawks and Wheel of Time
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On Tue, 23 Oct 2001, Black Dragon wrote:

> Have anyone of you read Robert Jordn's Wheel of Time Series *after reading
> Feist books*? Are they good when read after Feist books? I have got the
> first 3 parts, but have not touched those yet. Any suggetions?
> 
>                           - Black Dragon

The first 3 books are good.  After that, Mr. Jordan has an absolute talent
for expanding a trilogy into a nonet.  I skimmed through books 8 and 9 in
~2 hours each, just looking for references to Matt, the only character I
was actually interested in by then.



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From: Robert S Evans <roevans@linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Moorcock
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From: Robert S Evans <roevans@linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Moorcock
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On Wed, 24 Oct 2001, kevin wrote:

> A fantasy series I like is the Eternal Champion by Michael Moorcock. A 15
> book series is FAT. Some stories are similar like Eddings but Moorcock
> acknowledges diverse inspiration. I still haven't read them all and some are
> out of print.Though there will always be Elric, a very rich character that
> reflects...no never mind I'll let you read it yourselves.
>                     kevykev

It's ok, and I believe they have been reprinted.  The 15 books consist of
3 book omnibus's.  Dark Fantasy isn't really my favorite, and I find it
somewhat difficult to relate to all of his characters (at least as he
writes their personalities).

This list is about Feist, is it not?  This thread should have been marked
OT a long time ago.



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Subject: Conclave of Shadows
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From: "Black Dragon" <blackdragon@gamebox.net>
To: "Feisty People" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Conclave of Shadows
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 00:58:06 +0600
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I am wondering if the Conclave of Shadows series will feature the Dread.
What are your thoughts on that series?

                          - Black Dragon



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To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
References: <f7.113e0f79.29087010@aol.com>
Subject: Re: 3rd Serpentwar, Nighthawks and Wheel of Time
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 09:44:39 +0600
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From: "Black Dragon" <blackdragon@gamebox.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: 3rd Serpentwar, Nighthawks and Wheel of Time
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 09:44:39 +0600
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>>dreaming of all those
>> kilt-wearing topless Keshians :)


>Personally Black Dragon I would go with the second one! :)

Every topless Keshian is a kilt wearing one :)



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From: "Natalie Henderson" <natz101@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Hobb Series!!
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 08:04:04 +0000
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From: "Natalie Henderson" <natz101@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Hobb Series!!
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 08:04:04 +0000
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Yes they're the same person. Megan Lindholm is the name that she used to 
write under. The books that are coming out now under the name of Magen 
Lindholm are re-releases. The Robin Hobb site is actually the only place 
that tells you this!! :)

Natalie Henderson

>From: Terry Corbett <macros102@yahoo.com>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
>Subject: Re: Hobb Series!!
>Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 11:50:30 -0700 (PDT)
>
>I've heard of Robin Hobb, though I haven't read any of
>her stuff yet.  I just now stumbled upon her website
>and I'm very confused about something.  Are Robin
>Hobbs and Megan Lindholm the same person?  I'm
>confused about this because part of the Lindholm site
>mentioned that some readers liked BOTH authors.
>
>Terry Corbett
>
>--- Natalie Henderson <natz101@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > The Liveship Traders series is even better than the
> > Assassin series. It's
> > one of those trilogys that weaves many different
> > subplots together so that
> > at the end of each chapter you want to know what
> > happens to character a next
> > but soon get involved with character b and so on. It
> > definitely reminded me
> > of Ray a lot!!
> >
> > Hobb has also just brought out a new book as a
> > follow up to the assassin
> > series. She also used to write under the name of
> > Megan Lindholm. She just
> > released a series under that name - I can't remember
> > what its called but its
> > a lot like Clan of the Cave Bear.
> >
> > Anyway thats all my knowledge but you can buy the
> > books all over the
> > internet if you want a good read!!! They're just my
> > type of thing anyway!!
> > :)
> >
> > Natalie
> >
> > >From: kevykev@sbcglobal.net
> > >Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > >To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
> > >Subject: Re: Hobb Series!!
> > >Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 17:45:34 -0500
> > >
> > >The "Hobb series" is Farseer trilogy:Assassins
> > >Apprentice,Royal Assassin,and Assassins Quest by
> > Robin
> > >Hobb. There is another series The Liveship Traders
> > but
> > >I haven't read it yet
> > >--- Original Message ---
> > >From: "Black Dragon" <blackdragon@gamebox.net>
> > >To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
> > >Subject: Hobb Series!!
> > >
> > > >What's this Hobb series? Can someone explain a
> > bit to
> > >me? Who are the
> > > >writers and what type of series it is?
> > > >
> > > >                          - Black Dragon
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>_________________________________________________________________
> > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
> > http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
> >
>
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals.
>http://personals.yahoo.com
>


_________________________________________________________________
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>Subject: Hobb Series!!
>
>What's this Hobb series? Can someone explain a bit to
>me? Who are the writers and what type of series it is?

>                          - Black Dragon

If you're into stories where the main character is repeatedly
kicked in the groin, literally and figuratively, it doesn't get any better
than Hobb's assassin. 

Me, I couldn't stand it. The trilogy is one the "read once, never again"
books on the lower shelves in my library, right next to Goodkind and
Hamilton.

Have a nice day.

-o



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From: "Natalie Henderson" <natz101@hotmail.com>
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From: "Natalie Henderson" <natz101@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Hobb Series!!
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 09:11:19 +0000
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>If you're into stories where the main character is repeatedly
>kicked in the groin, literally and figuratively, it doesn't get any better
>than Hobb's assassin.
>
>Me, I couldn't stand it. The trilogy is one the "read once, never again"
>books on the lower shelves in my library, right next to Goodkind and
>Hamilton.
>
>Have a nice day.
>
>-o
>
Have you tried the second trilogy? It's very different from the first in 
that sense. A lot nicer story which I must agree does make a change for 
her!! :)

Natalie Henderson

_________________________________________________________________
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Subject: Re: Hobb Series!!
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 21:27:24 +0200
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From: "LaughingFrog" <badeand.dk@mail.dk>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Hobb Series!!
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 21:27:24 +0200
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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I too have read both series, and must agree the Liveship Traders is VERY
good, and keeps jumping from one ponit in the story to another, much like
REF does in some books.... keeps the "i just have to read ONE more
chapter"-spirit alive.. :)

**********************************
LaughingFrog
**********************************
----- Original Message -----
From: "Natalie Henderson" <natz101@hotmail.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2001 11:11 AM
Subject: Re: Hobb Series!!


> >If you're into stories where the main character is repeatedly
> >kicked in the groin, literally and figuratively, it doesn't get any better
> >than Hobb's assassin.
> >
> >Me, I couldn't stand it. The trilogy is one the "read once, never again"
> >books on the lower shelves in my library, right next to Goodkind and
> >Hamilton.
> >
> >Have a nice day.
> >
> >-o
> >
> Have you tried the second trilogy? It's very different from the first in
> that sense. A lot nicer story which I must agree does make a change for
> her!! :)
>
> Natalie Henderson
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>



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From: "Natalie Henderson" <natz101@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re: Hobb Series!!
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Subject: Re: Hobb Series!!
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Definitely - I've spent many a night up till the small hours because I just 
HAD to read one more bit. Always causes a lot of yawning at work the next 
day, but it definitely makes the train journey in the morning fly by!! ;)

>From: "LaughingFrog" <badeand.dk@mail.dk>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
>Subject: Re: Hobb Series!!
>Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 21:27:24 +0200
>
>I too have read both series, and must agree the Liveship Traders is VERY
>good, and keeps jumping from one ponit in the story to another, much like
>REF does in some books.... keeps the "i just have to read ONE more
>chapter"-spirit alive.. :)
>
>**********************************
>LaughingFrog
>**********************************


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp



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Subject: Re: 3rd Serpentwar, Nighthawks and Wheel of Time
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Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 17:55:29 -0700
From: Carl Dershem <dershem@home.com>
Organization: Project Selene
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: 3rd Serpentwar, Nighthawks and Wheel of Time
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Black Dragon wrote:
> 
> >>dreaming of all those
> >> kilt-wearing topless Keshians :)
> 
> >Personally Black Dragon I would go with the second one! :)
> 
> Every topless Keshian is a kilt wearing one :)

Not necessarily - they can also *remove* the kilts, which can increase
the fun.



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Subject: Re: 3rd Serpentwar, Nighthawks and Wheel of Time
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 00:23:18 -0500
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From: "Diamond Joe" <diamondjoesmith@yahoo.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: 3rd Serpentwar, Nighthawks and Wheel of Time
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 00:23:18 -0500
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I've been reading Wheel of Time since the same time i started reading Feist.
I don't think either of them are better than the other. just different.
Jordan is writing more of an epic series, where you have cliffhangers and
need to read the whole series to get the whole story. Whereas Ray's is more
of an ongoing series, where each book has it's own self contained story.
Better when read in order, but not absolutely necessary.

That's my opinion anyways....:)

Joseph Smith

----- Original Message -----
From: "Black Dragon" <blackdragon@gamebox.net>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Monday, October 22, 2001 10:07 PM
Subject: 3rd Serpentwar, Nighthawks and Wheel of Time


> > Conclave of the shadows and its first book (possibly called talon of the
> > Silverhawk) is the next series, the 3rd riftwar, and happens ~50 years
> > after the serpentwar IIRC.
>
> ~50 years or 100 years? [I forgot what IIRC means :( ]
>
> OK and another question : Where did Mr. Feist got the idea of the
> Nighthawks? Does a secret society like this exist on real-life? Well, they
> really fascinated me! In today's world situation, this type of society can
> be a real threat! And the way they (Islamic fanatics) are willing to give
> their life away, it might not be very far when this kind of guilds exist in
> real-life, thogh they will take only one shot to kill, and with
> flame-throwers easily available, the old-style Nighthawks could not have
> survived long.
>
> Have anyone of you read Robert Jordn's Wheel of Time Series *after reading
> Feist books*? Are they good when read after Feist books? I have got the
> first 3 parts, but have not touched those yet. Any suggetions?
>
>                           - Black Dragon
>



_________________________________________________________
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Subject: Re: 3rd Serpentwar, Nighthawks and Wheel of Time
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From: "Black Dragon" <blackdragon@gamebox.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: 3rd Serpentwar, Nighthawks and Wheel of Time
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 19:06:39 +0600
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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> Not necessarily - they can also *remove* the kilts, which can increase
> the fun.

Well I was talking 'bout their normal dressup, not the night dresses :) 



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*** EOOH ***
From: "Jason Martin" <res0b95g@verizon.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: All quiet?
Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 14:04:40 -0700
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

boy talk about this list being quiet.  In my 7 years on the list, I do not
think I have seen it this quiet...

Jason

"Mas Tequila!"
       Red Vodoo- Sammy Hagar



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Subject: Re: All quiet?
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*** EOOH ***
From: "kevin" <kevykev@sbcglobal.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: All quiet?
Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 14:32:40 -0700
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I noticed too. I've been on for a few weeks I'd like to see what it's like
when a book is released.

                        Kev
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jason Martin" <res0b95g@verizon.net>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2001 2:04 PM
Subject: All quiet?


> boy talk about this list being quiet.  In my 7 years on the list, I do not
> think I have seen it this quiet...
>
> Jason
>
> "Mas Tequila!"
>        Red Vodoo- Sammy Hagar
>



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Subject: Re: All quiet?
Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 14:50:04 -0700
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Jason Martin" <res0b95g@verizon.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: All quiet?
Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 14:50:04 -0700
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Its Pandemonium when a book gets released.  Most people are pretty good
about putting Spoiler space down in the letter incase you haven't read the
book yet.  I think there have been a few days when a new book gets released
of over a 100+ letters.

Jason

"Mas Tequila!"
       Red Vodoo- Sammy Hagar
----- Original Message -----
From: "kevin" <kevykev@sbcglobal.net>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2001 2:32 PM
Subject: Re: All quiet?


> I noticed too. I've been on for a few weeks I'd like to see what it's like
> when a book is released.
>
>                         Kev
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jason Martin" <res0b95g@verizon.net>
> To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2001 2:04 PM
> Subject: All quiet?
>
>
> > boy talk about this list being quiet.  In my 7 years on the list, I do not
> > think I have seen it this quiet...
> >
> > Jason
> >
> > "Mas Tequila!"
> >        Red Vodoo- Sammy Hagar
> >
>



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 18:04:28 -0700
From: Carl Dershem <dershem@home.com>
Organization: Project Selene
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: All quiet?
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Jason Martin wrote:
> 
> boy talk about this list being quiet.  In my 7 years on the list, I do not
> think I have seen it this quiet...

Ssshhh!



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 12:25:41 +1100
From: Alan <Jherek@bigpond.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: All quiet?
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on the Western Front ?

Alan
-- 
And he sees the vision splendid of the sunlit plains extended
And at night the wond'rous glory of the everlasting stars

Clancy of the Overflow



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 <3BDB599C.E0FFCC86@home.com>
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On 28 October 2001 at 01:04:28, Fiestfans <dershem@home.com> wrote:

CD> Jason Martin wrote:
>> 
>> boy talk about this list being quiet.  In my 7 years on the list, I do not
>> think I have seen it this quiet...

CD> Ssshhh!

we're huntin' wabbits....



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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: All quiet?
Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 21:04:44 -0500
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>> Ssshhh!
> 
> we're huntin' wabbits....

hehehehe



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*** EOOH ***
From: Adam012882@cs.com
Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 12:04:57 EST
Subject: ??
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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This discussion group  is more dead then my grandmothers 100th  birthday 
party, recently.

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Subject: Re: ??
Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 11:11:31 -0600
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: ??
Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 11:11:31 -0600
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Chill Adam, the group regularly dies when there are "long" waits
between books.  In this case there is also the additional factor
that a lot of us in the US can't even get ahold of a copy of
Honoured Enemy yet.  So the list is quiet, particularly since we
have cracked down on the OT topics and the flamewar prone topics
(such as Movies).

-James

----- Original Message -----
From: <Adam012882@cs.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Sunday, October 28, 2001 11:04 AM
Subject: ??


> This discussion group  is more dead then my grandmothers 100th birthday
> party, recently.
>



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Subject: What about Bob?
Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 19:12:40 +0100
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Magnus Arvidsson" <magnus.arvidsson75@telia.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: What about Bob?
Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 19:12:40 +0100
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Yeah, what about Bob... Bob backwards is Bob.
or maybe boB? Why not discuss Magician or
some other book? Or maybe Bob is a topic
worth discussing ? ;-)



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Subject: Re: 3rd Serpentwar, Nighthawks and Wheel of Time
Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 12:41:53 -0600
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From: "Wendy Smith" <REFlist@yahoo.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: 3rd Serpentwar, Nighthawks and Wheel of Time
Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 12:41:53 -0600
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I enjoy The Belgariad and The Mallorean Series.  The Sparhawk series is good
as well.  I also enjoyed his latest bood, but I can't remember the name of
it.  I think Eddings wrote two other books, The Loser, and the Cold War.  I
tried reading the 1st and didn't finish it, not my cup of tea.  Haven't read
the 2nd.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Black Dragon" <blackdragon@gamebox.net>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Monday, October 22, 2001 1:16 PM
Subject: Re: 3rd Serpentwar, Nighthawks and Wheel of Time


> > Probably a lot of us have read them. Jordan was my favorite serie for the
> first 4-5 books, but I'm very disapointed with the way the serie went after
> that. I'm actually reading the last one so far (9th?), and I'm more often
> than not skimming through the book because I feel that most of those
> subplots are useless and not interesting to the story at large. I have the
> habit of reading several books in paralel, so I can really see the
> difference between the two I'm reading right now (Hobb's Assassin serie),
> and why I don't like the last Jordan.
> >
> > Ray's Empire serie is VERY good by the way, especially if you love a bit
> of politics in your stories.
> >
> > Paddyjack
>
> Hmm, it looks like that the other books are very bulky like the first three,
> perhaps more so. I am scared to start reading them as the first one is 814
> page fat. Tell me people, do you like fat fantasy or medium one. I am yet to
> read any fatter book than Magician (or perhaps Rage of a Demon King - which
> was the more fatter?). And they're also set in small type - those Jordan
> books. I don't know if I'll finish them if I start - they're very good if
> you listen to the fans. However, I am in Kesh right now with Erland and
> Borric is heading to Farafra, and I wonder what would have happened if the
> Kingdom allied with Kesh and got some imperial soldiers - maybe Fadawah's
> butt would have been nicely kicked!
>
> Anyone here read Tad Williams' 'Memory, Sorrow & Throne' trilogy (?!). They
> are also huge books. People keep saying that they're excellent and any real
> fantasy lover should read them etc. etc.
>
> Now, what do you people think of Eddings? Is he good? I haven't read the
> Belgarid yet, but my cousin's got the whole collection (Bel/Mal/El/Tam) and
> I can read them whenever I wish. Suggestions? Well, I better finish
> 'mainstream' (Rift, Serpent, PoB, TKB & Empire) Feist before going into all
> these :)
>
> Being a newbie, I really talk too much. It's 1:15 AM now, and I should read
> the 10th chapter of prince of Blood, or should I sleep dreaming of all those
> kilt-wearing topless Keshians :)
>
>                             - Black Dragon
>



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From: Larry Siegel <larry@psihawk.com>
Subject: Re: 3rd Serpentwar, Nighthawks and Wheel of Time
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 13:48:35 -0500
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Larry Siegel <larry@psihawk.com>
Subject: Re: 3rd Serpentwar, Nighthawks and Wheel of Time
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

At 12:41 PM 10/28/01 -0600, you wrote:
>I enjoy The Belgariad and The Mallorean Series.  The Sparhawk series is good
>as well.  I also enjoyed his latest bood, but I can't remember the name of
>it.  I think Eddings wrote two other books, The Loser, and the Cold War.  I
>tried reading the 1st and didn't finish it, not my cup of tea.  Haven't read
>the 2nd.


The new Book was Redemption of Athalus....
And his Other books... were High Hunt.... The Losers.... and the Riven Codex...


--
Larry (PsiHawk)
--
PsiHawk's Home Page
     http://www.psihawk.com
--
Raymond E Feist FAQ Page
     http://www.psihawk.com/feist



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From: "Black Dragon" <blackdragon@gamebox.net>
To: "Feisty People" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 01:06:47 +0600
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I heard that Feist was writing a Sci-Fi. True?

                          - Black Dragon

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From: Allan Mills <milla@css.com.au>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" (FEISTFANS-L) <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: 3rd Serpentwar, Nighthawks and Wheel of Time
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 08:37:55 +1100
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*** EOOH ***
From: Allan Mills <milla@css.com.au>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" (FEISTFANS-L) <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: 3rd Serpentwar, Nighthawks and Wheel of Time
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 08:37:55 +1100
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 He also wrote Belgarath the Sorceror and Polgara the Sorceress. It covers
their lives up until the start of the Belgariad. The former is extremely
funny in parts. The latter wasn't quite as good.

 Allan

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Larry Siegel [mailto:larry@psihawk.com]
> Sent: Monday, October 29, 2001 5:49 AM
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Subject: Re: 3rd Serpentwar, Nighthawks and Wheel of Time
> 
> 
> At 12:41 PM 10/28/01 -0600, you wrote:
> >I enjoy The Belgariad and The Mallorean Series.  The 
> Sparhawk series is good
> >as well.  I also enjoyed his latest bood, but I can't 
> remember the name of
> >it.  I think Eddings wrote two other books, The Loser, and 
> the Cold War.  I
> >tried reading the 1st and didn't finish it, not my cup of 
> tea.  Haven't read
> >the 2nd.
> 
> 
> The new Book was Redemption of Athalus....
> And his Other books... were High Hunt.... The Losers.... and 
> the Riven Codex...
> 
> 
> --
> Larry (PsiHawk)
> --
> PsiHawk's Home Page
>      http://www.psihawk.com
> --
> Raymond E Feist FAQ Page
>      http://www.psihawk.com/feist
> 



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From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
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Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 07:50:14 +1000 (GMT+1000)
From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
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> I heard that Feist was writing a Sci-Fi. True?
>
>                           - Black Dragon

Eventually

Working title was "The Jigsaw Lady" or some such (IIRC)

Thanks
Darragh
-=-=
www.iamtheporkfireman.com
[Email]: s356179@student.uq.edu.au [ICQ]: 114283262



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Subject: RE: 3rd Serpentwar, Nighthawks and Wheel of Time
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From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" (FEISTFANS-L) <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: 3rd Serpentwar, Nighthawks and Wheel of Time
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Thats because Belgarath was a theiving, drunk, dirty old man, whereas
Polgara was a prim, politically correct woman:P




>  He also wrote Belgarath the Sorceror and Polgara the Sorceress. It covers
> their lives up until the start of the Belgariad. The former is extremely
> funny in parts. The latter wasn't quite as good.
>
>  Allan
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Larry Siegel [mailto:larry@psihawk.com]
> > Sent: Monday, October 29, 2001 5:49 AM
> > To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > Subject: Re: 3rd Serpentwar, Nighthawks and Wheel of Time
> >
> >
> > At 12:41 PM 10/28/01 -0600, you wrote:
> > >I enjoy The Belgariad and The Mallorean Series.  The
> > Sparhawk series is good
> > >as well.  I also enjoyed his latest bood, but I can't
> > remember the name of
> > >it.  I think Eddings wrote two other books, The Loser, and
> > the Cold War.  I
> > >tried reading the 1st and didn't finish it, not my cup of
> > tea.  Haven't read
> > >the 2nd.
> >
> >
> > The new Book was Redemption of Athalus....
> > And his Other books... were High Hunt.... The Losers.... and
> > the Riven Codex...
> >
> >
> > --
> > Larry (PsiHawk)
> > --
> > PsiHawk's Home Page
> >      http://www.psihawk.com
> > --
> > Raymond E Feist FAQ Page
> >      http://www.psihawk.com/feist
> >
>
>

Thanks
Darragh
-=-=
www.iamtheporkfireman.com
[Email]: s356179@student.uq.edu.au [ICQ]: 114283262



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From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
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From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: 3rd Serpentwar, Nighthawks and Wheel of Time
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"The Redemption of Athalus" (sp)

The other two non-fantasy books are "The Losers" and "High Hunt".

Aside: I think Ray said a while back that David was in the best of
health.......thats a shame, I hope he continues to write.


> I enjoy The Belgariad and The Mallorean Series.  The Sparhawk series is good
> as well.  I also enjoyed his latest bood, but I can't remember the name of
> it.  I think Eddings wrote two other books, The Loser, and the Cold War.  I
> tried reading the 1st and didn't finish it, not my cup of tea.  Haven't read
> the 2nd.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Black Dragon" <blackdragon@gamebox.net>
> To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> Sent: Monday, October 22, 2001 1:16 PM
> Subject: Re: 3rd Serpentwar, Nighthawks and Wheel of Time
>
>
> > > Probably a lot of us have read them. Jordan was my favorite serie for
> the
> > first 4-5 books, but I'm very disapointed with the way the serie went
> after
> > that. I'm actually reading the last one so far (9th?), and I'm more often
> > than not skimming through the book because I feel that most of those
> > subplots are useless and not interesting to the story at large. I have the
> > habit of reading several books in paralel, so I can really see the
> > difference between the two I'm reading right now (Hobb's Assassin serie),
> > and why I don't like the last Jordan.
> > >
> > > Ray's Empire serie is VERY good by the way, especially if you love a bit
> > of politics in your stories.
> > >
> > > Paddyjack
> >
> > Hmm, it looks like that the other books are very bulky like the first
> three,
> > perhaps more so. I am scared to start reading them as the first one is 814
> > page fat. Tell me people, do you like fat fantasy or medium one. I am yet
> to
> > read any fatter book than Magician (or perhaps Rage of a Demon King -
> which
> > was the more fatter?). And they're also set in small type - those Jordan
> > books. I don't know if I'll finish them if I start - they're very good if
> > you listen to the fans. However, I am in Kesh right now with Erland and
> > Borric is heading to Farafra, and I wonder what would have happened if the
> > Kingdom allied with Kesh and got some imperial soldiers - maybe Fadawah's
> > butt would have been nicely kicked!
> >
> > Anyone here read Tad Williams' 'Memory, Sorrow & Throne' trilogy (?!).
> They
> > are also huge books. People keep saying that they're excellent and any
> real
> > fantasy lover should read them etc. etc.
> >
> > Now, what do you people think of Eddings? Is he good? I haven't read the
> > Belgarid yet, but my cousin's got the whole collection (Bel/Mal/El/Tam)
> and
> > I can read them whenever I wish. Suggestions? Well, I better finish
> > 'mainstream' (Rift, Serpent, PoB, TKB & Empire) Feist before going into
> all
> > these :)
> >
> > Being a newbie, I really talk too much. It's 1:15 AM now, and I should
> read
> > the 10th chapter of prince of Blood, or should I sleep dreaming of all
> those
> > kilt-wearing topless Keshians :)
> >
> >                             - Black Dragon
> >
>
>

Thanks
Darragh
-=-=
www.iamtheporkfireman.com
[Email]: s356179@student.uq.edu.au [ICQ]: 114283262



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From: Allan Mills <milla@css.com.au>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" (FEISTFANS-L) <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: 3rd Serpentwar, Nighthawks and Wheel of Time
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*** EOOH ***
From: Allan Mills <milla@css.com.au>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" (FEISTFANS-L) <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: 3rd Serpentwar, Nighthawks and Wheel of Time
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 08:55:38 +1100
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

 Not quite, Polgara could outswear a sailor when she had to and she had the
worst temper you could imagine. The first book was more fun as Belgarath
quashed a heap of classic legends with the true version of events.

 Allan

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Darragh Murray [mailto:s356179@student.uq.edu.au]
> Sent: Monday, October 29, 2001 8:51 AM
> To: 'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'
> Subject: RE: 3rd Serpentwar, Nighthawks and Wheel of Time
> 
> 
> 
> Thats because Belgarath was a theiving, drunk, dirty old man, whereas
> Polgara was a prim, politically correct woman:P
> 
> 
> 
> 
> >  He also wrote Belgarath the Sorceror and Polgara the 
> Sorceress. It covers
> > their lives up until the start of the Belgariad. The former 
> is extremely
> > funny in parts. The latter wasn't quite as good.
> >
> >  Allan
> 



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From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: OT: Eddings of all things would you believe (was RE: 3rd Serpentwar, Nighthawks and Wheel of Time)
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 06:53:30 +0800
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*** EOOH ***
From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: OT: Eddings of all things would you believe (was RE: 3rd Serpentwar, Nighthawks and Wheel of Time)
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 06:53:30 +0800
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I had issues with the Polgara book (and don't think I ever finished
reading it) because she was just way too self righteous and up herself.
Just listening to her prattle on about how many great things she's done
and how much it's cost her and on and on and on. I just couldn't take it
anymore, I wanted to slap her and say deal with it will ya.

And the Riven Codex almost gave me the impression Polgara is actually
David Eddings. 

That said Belgarath from memory was alright. The Garion books were OK
the first time, and as they are rather simple fantasy are what I began
on before I found Magician. The Sparhawk books while a similar plot the
characters were a bit grittier and overall somewhat more enjoyable. 

I will/can not read the Bel/Mal series as Feist has spoiled me for them.
I'm used to better writing now :) The Sparhawk stuff is still OK for the
occasional re-read though.

CW

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu 
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Allan Mills
> Sent: Monday, 29 October 2001 5:56 AM
> To: 'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu' (FEISTFANS-L)
> Subject: RE: 3rd Serpentwar, Nighthawks and Wheel of Time
> 
> 
>  Not quite, Polgara could outswear a sailor when she had to 
> and she had the
> worst temper you could imagine. The first book was more fun 
> as Belgarath
> quashed a heap of classic legends with the true version of events.
> 
>  Allan
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Darragh Murray [mailto:s356179@student.uq.edu.au]
> > Sent: Monday, October 29, 2001 8:51 AM
> > To: 'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'
> > Subject: RE: 3rd Serpentwar, Nighthawks and Wheel of Time
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Thats because Belgarath was a theiving, drunk, dirty old 
> man, whereas
> > Polgara was a prim, politically correct woman:P
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > >  He also wrote Belgarath the Sorceror and Polgara the 
> > Sorceress. It covers
> > > their lives up until the start of the Belgariad. The former 
> > is extremely
> > > funny in parts. The latter wasn't quite as good.
> > >
> > >  Allan
> > 
> 



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From: "Magnus Arvidsson" <magnus.arvidsson75@telia.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
References: <Pine.OSF.4.30.0110290750230.1524-100000@student.uq.edu.au>
Subject: Re: 3rd Serpentwar, Nighthawks and Wheel of Time
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 01:51:59 +0100
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Magnus Arvidsson" <magnus.arvidsson75@telia.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: 3rd Serpentwar, Nighthawks and Wheel of Time
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 01:51:59 +0100
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I almost gave up on Polgara the Sorceress... She was not
my favorite character in the books before PtS and reading
that book didn't change my feelings about Polgara it only
strengthened them. Polgara = Boring woman who looks
vampire-ishly pale in the light of her father Belgarath.

Maybe mr Eddings should have listened less to his wife
when he wrote that book.. =)

Magnus

> Thats because Belgarath was a theiving, drunk, dirty old man, whereas
> Polgara was a prim, politically correct woman:P
>
>
>
>
> >  He also wrote Belgarath the Sorceror and Polgara the Sorceress. It covers
> > their lives up until the start of the Belgariad. The former is extremely
> > funny in parts. The latter wasn't quite as good.
> >
> >  Allan
> > >
> > >
> > > At 12:41 PM 10/28/01 -0600, you wrote:
> > > >I enjoy The Belgariad and The Mallorean Series.  The
> > > Sparhawk series is good
> > > >as well.  I also enjoyed his latest bood, but I can't
> > > remember the name of
> > > >it.  I think Eddings wrote two other books, The Loser, and
> > > the Cold War.  I
> > > >tried reading the 1st and didn't finish it, not my cup of
> > > tea.  Haven't read
> > > >the 2nd.
> > >
> > >
> > > The new Book was Redemption of Athalus....
> > > And his Other books... were High Hunt.... The Losers.... and
> > > the Riven Codex...
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Larry (PsiHawk)




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Subject: Re: Nighthawks and Wheel of Time (OT)
Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 19:23:35 -0600
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Nighthawks and Wheel of Time (OT)
Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 19:23:35 -0600
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Can you folk at least be kind and stick the (OT) marker in the
Subject line so we can filter it out if we don't want to read it
without filtering things that are relevant to Feist that might pop
back up.

-James

----- Original Message -----
From: "Magnus Arvidsson" <magnus.arvidsson75@telia.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Sunday, October 28, 2001 6:51 PM
Subject: Re: 3rd Serpentwar, Nighthawks and Wheel of Time


> I almost gave up on Polgara the Sorceress... She was not
> my favorite character in the books before PtS and reading
> that book didn't change my feelings about Polgara it only
> strengthened them. Polgara = Boring woman who looks
> vampire-ishly pale in the light of her father Belgarath.
>
> Maybe mr Eddings should have listened less to his wife
> when he wrote that book.. =)
>
> Magnus
>
> > Thats because Belgarath was a theiving, drunk, dirty old man, whereas
> > Polgara was a prim, politically correct woman:P
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >  He also wrote Belgarath the Sorceror and Polgara the Sorceress. It
> covers
> > > their lives up until the start of the Belgariad. The former is extremely
> > > funny in parts. The latter wasn't quite as good.
> > >
> > >  Allan
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > At 12:41 PM 10/28/01 -0600, you wrote:
> > > > >I enjoy The Belgariad and The Mallorean Series.  The
> > > > Sparhawk series is good
> > > > >as well.  I also enjoyed his latest bood, but I can't
> > > > remember the name of
> > > > >it.  I think Eddings wrote two other books, The Loser, and
> > > > the Cold War.  I
> > > > >tried reading the 1st and didn't finish it, not my cup of
> > > > tea.  Haven't read
> > > > >the 2nd.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > The new Book was Redemption of Athalus....
> > > > And his Other books... were High Hunt.... The Losers.... and
> > > > the Riven Codex...
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Larry (PsiHawk)
>
>



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From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT: Eddings of all things would you believe (was RE: 3rd
 Serpentwar, Nighthawks and Wheel of Time)
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 14:15:11 +1000 (GMT+1000)
From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT: Eddings of all things would you believe (was RE: 3rd
 Serpentwar, Nighthawks and Wheel of Time)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

> I had issues with the Polgara book (and don't think I ever finished
> reading it) because she was just way too self righteous and up herself.
> Just listening to her prattle on about how many great things she's done
> and how much it's cost her and on and on and on. I just couldn't take it
> anymore, I wanted to slap her and say deal with it will ya.
>
> And the Riven Codex almost gave me the impression Polgara is actually
> David Eddings.
>
> That said Belgarath from memory was alright. The Garion books were OK
> the first time, and as they are rather simple fantasy are what I began
> on before I found Magician. The Sparhawk books while a similar plot the
> characters were a bit grittier and overall somewhat more enjoyable.
>
> I will/can not read the Bel/Mal series as Feist has spoiled me for them.
> I'm used to better writing now :) The Sparhawk stuff is still OK for the
> occasional re-read though.
> CW

Better writing, in your opinion.

Comparing Eddings to Feist is like comparing apples to oranges.

And what constitutes "better writing", better use of english mechanics,
better plot, better themes? I like Eddings and Feist equally the same.
They're both proficient at telling 'ripping good yarns'.

Thanks
Darragh
-=-=
www.iamtheporkfireman.com
[Email]: s356179@student.uq.edu.au [ICQ]: 114283262



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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Barker" <heechee@softhome.net>
To: feistfans-l@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Semi OT: Rafael Sabatini
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 18:16:18 +1100
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Dear All,

Just in case anyone was curious, I just learned that some (if not all) of
the books by Rafael Sabatini (which Ray has mentioned as possible
influences; if not, at least good reads) are in the public domain.

Anyone interested should check out www.promo.net/pg which has got a lot of
other very decent classics as well...

Cheers,
James
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dreaming of that face again; it's bright, and blue, and shimmering
Grinning wide, and wiping the webs and the dew from my withered eye...



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Subject: Re: OT: Eddings of all things would you believe (was RE: 3rd Serpentwar, Nighthawks and Wheel of Time)
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From: benkarl@texas.net
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 18:11:38 -0600
Subject: Re: OT: Eddings of all things would you believe (was RE: 3rd Serpentwar, Nighthawks and Wheel of Time)
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I liked the first series when I read it.  The problem with Eddings has 
been that each series, even the ones set in a different world, has 
been the same story told over and over again.  

I always felt sorry for all those people who had to put up with 
Polgara and, for that matter, C'nedra or however it's spelled.  They 
both share a lot of the same personality flaws.  Of course, for me it 
wasn't the 'look how much I've sacrificed' bit that was annoying.  It 
was her attitude.  It was like "Everyone but me is a helpless idiot so 
I'm just going to have to tell everyone what to do while acting like it's 
a horrible imposition to be forced to do so.  If anyone doesn't 
knuckle under immediately, I'll start by telling them what an utter 
idiot they are and then make their life so miserable that they never 
dare argue again.  I'll also respond to any attempt to persuade me 
to change my mind in the same way."  

Ben Krauskopf
benkarl@texas.net
"We are Winnie of Pooh.  Resistance is futile.  Your Hunny will be assimilated."
"Silly old Borg"



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Subject: Re: OT: Eddings of all things would you believe (was RE: 3rd
  Serpentwar, Nighthawks and Wheel of Time)
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 23:07:19 -0500
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Paul Arzooman <soundcage@erols.com>
Subject: Re: OT: Eddings of all things would you believe (was RE: 3rd
  Serpentwar, Nighthawks and Wheel of Time)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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At 06:11 PM 10/29/01 -0600, you wrote:
>I liked the first series when I read it.  The problem with Eddings has
>been that each series, even the ones set in a different world, has
>been the same story told over and over again.

Eddings had some interesting ideas in the Belgariad but I don't think they 
warranted a five book series let alone two five book series.  At this point 
Eddings is so much "extruded fantasy product".



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From: Allan Mills <milla@css.com.au>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" (FEISTFANS-L) <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: OT: Eddings of all things would you believe (was RE: 3rd Serp
	entwar, Nighthawks and Wheel of Time)
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*** EOOH ***
From: Allan Mills <milla@css.com.au>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" (FEISTFANS-L) <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: OT: Eddings of all things would you believe (was RE: 3rd Serp
	entwar, Nighthawks and Wheel of Time)
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 17:12:15 +1100
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 Nah, what annoyed me the most about Polgara was how she'd force people to
her will in the name of the prophecy. As soon as someone did the same to her
she went ballistic. 

 The thing about Eddings that bugs me is that he will change or completely
reverse a characters personality just for a one off joke. Eg. All through
the books Ce'Nedra is a portrayed as being indifferent to her own nudity due
to her cultural upbringing. However when she goes to get some armour built
for her she suddenly turns shy when the blacksmith wants her to strip to her
underwear so he can measure her.

 Allan

> -----Original Message-----
> From: benkarl@texas.net [mailto:benkarl@texas.net]
> Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2001 11:12 AM
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Subject: Re: OT: Eddings of all things would you believe (was RE: 3rd
> Serpentwar, Nighthawks and Wheel of Time)
> 
> 
> I liked the first series when I read it.  The problem with 
> Eddings has 
> been that each series, even the ones set in a different world, has 
> been the same story told over and over again.  
> 
> I always felt sorry for all those people who had to put up with 
> Polgara and, for that matter, C'nedra or however it's spelled.  They 
> both share a lot of the same personality flaws.  Of course, for me it 
> wasn't the 'look how much I've sacrificed' bit that was annoying.  It 
> was her attitude.  It was like "Everyone but me is a helpless 
> idiot so 
> I'm just going to have to tell everyone what to do while 
> acting like it's 
> a horrible imposition to be forced to do so.  If anyone doesn't 
> knuckle under immediately, I'll start by telling them what an utter 
> idiot they are and then make their life so miserable that they never 
> dare argue again.  I'll also respond to any attempt to persuade me 
> to change my mind in the same way."  
> 
> Ben Krauskopf
> benkarl@texas.net
> "We are Winnie of Pooh.  Resistance is futile.  Your Hunny 
> will be assimilated."
> "Silly old Borg"
> 



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Subject: Re: OT: Eddings of all things would you believe (was RE: 3rd Serpentwar, Nighthawks and Wheel of Time)
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From: "Darragh Murray" <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT: Eddings of all things would you believe (was RE: 3rd Serpentwar, Nighthawks and Wheel of Time)
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----- Original Message -----
From: <benkarl@texas.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2001 10:11 AM
Subject: Re: OT: Eddings of all things would you believe (was RE: 3rd
Serpentwar, Nighthawks and Wheel of Time)


> I liked the first series when I read it.  The problem with Eddings has
> been that each series, even the ones set in a different world, has
> been the same story told over and over again.
>
> I always felt sorry for all those people who had to put up with
> Polgara and, for that matter, C'nedra or however it's spelled.  They
> both share a lot of the same personality flaws.  Of course, for me it
> wasn't the 'look how much I've sacrificed' bit that was annoying.  It
> was her attitude.  It was like "Everyone but me is a helpless idiot so
> I'm just going to have to tell everyone what to do while acting like it's
> a horrible imposition to be forced to do so.  If anyone doesn't
> knuckle under immediately, I'll start by telling them what an utter
> idiot they are and then make their life so miserable that they never
> dare argue again.  I'll also respond to any attempt to persuade me
> to change my mind in the same way."
>
> Ben Krauskopf
> benkarl@texas.net

Thats what is good about it....it has 'everyday' people... not everyone in
real life is a 'little town hero', or an 'avatar of virtue', most of the
world are arrogrant stubborn, ignorant, selfish people (big genralisation
noted)..


most of all , me:)



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Subject: Re: ??
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From: "James E.Roberts" <jroberts6@vtown.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: ??
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What Crackdown?

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Monday, October 29, 2001 4:11 AM
Subject: Re: ??


> Chill Adam, the group regularly dies when there are "long" waits
> between books.  In this case there is also the additional factor
> that a lot of us in the US can't even get ahold of a copy of
> Honoured Enemy yet.  So the list is quiet, particularly since we
> have cracked down on the OT topics and the flamewar prone topics
> (such as Movies).
> 
> -James
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <Adam012882@cs.com>
> To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> Sent: Sunday, October 28, 2001 11:04 AM
> Subject: ??
> 
> 
> > This discussion group  is more dead then my grandmothers 100th
> birthday
> > party, recently.
> >
> 



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>was her attitude.  It was like "Everyone but me is a helpless idiot so 
>I'm just going to have to tell everyone what to do while acting like it's 
>a horrible imposition to be forced to do so.  If anyone doesn't 
>knuckle under immediately, I'll start by telling them what an utter 
>idiot they are and then make their life so miserable that they never 
>dare argue again.  I'll also respond to any attempt to persuade me 
>to change my mind in the same way."  
>


That's about similar to the Aes Sedai attitude in Jordan's books. Very
annoying after 9 books :-)

PJ


Make a difference, help support the relief efforts in the U.S.
http://clubs.lycos.com/live/events/september11.asp



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From: "Theresa Roden" <lady_hoby@hotmail.com>
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Can anyone provide me with the site for the Kelt font that was used on 
Magician?  Due to changes in job, I no longer have access to the set of 
bookmarks that contained that site.  Thanks in advance for the help.

Theresa

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp



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Subject: Gods
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[Hi - I'm fairly new to the group. I've kept quiet for a while. I've read
the FAQ(s), but not found the answers, just lots of inconsistencies. I've
even downloaded the archive]


Are the Midkemia Gods and Kelewan Gods just different aspects of the same
set of divine beings (possibly as many as 120 in number), or are there a
completely set of different gods for each and every world (meaning there
could be loads and loads and loads of gods in the whole Universe).


In a similar vein, do we know if the Universe is infinite,
incomprehensibly vast, or just very big?


What I have got clear in my head is the following:
The Chaos Wars were chaotic and plural.
Ishap is an enigma.
REF doesn't want to fully explain the above two items.

BJS



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Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 07:49:44 +1000 (GMT+1000)
From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L'" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
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> [Hi - I'm fairly new to the group. I've kept quiet for a while. I've read
> the FAQ(s), but not found the answers, just lots of inconsistencies. I've
> even downloaded the archive]
>
>
> Are the Midkemia Gods and Kelewan Gods just different aspects of the same
> set of divine beings (possibly as many as 120 in number), or are there a
> completely set of different gods for each and every world (meaning there
> could be loads and loads and loads of gods in the whole Universe).
> In a similar vein, do we know if the Universe is infinite,
> incomprehensibly vast, or just very big?
> What I have got clear in my head is the following:
> The Chaos Wars were chaotic and plural.
> Ishap is an enigma.
> REF doesn't want to fully explain the above two items.
> BJS


I forget *exactly* but IIRC (If I recall correctly) they are divine
aspects of the same god.

..since Kelewan and Midkemia are in the same universe...

Thanks
Darragh
-=-=
www.iamtheporkfireman.com
[Email]: s356179@student.uq.edu.au [ICQ]: 114283262



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From: "Zsolt Kecskemeti" <zso@sednet.hu>
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<delurking after reading a whole lot of the archives to catch up, again>

Hi All, Mr. Feist, John

I'm sorry if the Legacy books deal with the following but I could not read 
them yet.

Ray said that Owyn is also a magician "to whom Path is a non-issue". Does 
that make him long-lived as it is with Pug and some members of the Conclave? 
(Pug and Co. <g>) Or is this ability restricted to those working for gods 
with or without knowing it? Ray, can you tell us more about this ability or 
would that be telling too much too soon?

One could argue that all people manipulating "stuff" work for Sarig but only 
few of them have the influence of Pug and his companions e.g. live longer. 
Owyn not playing any further role suggests that he does not have this 
ability.

Still, I had to ask.

bye
Zsolt



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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: ??
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 18:04:16 -0600
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It is in reference to the fact that subjects were added to the
banned topic list relatively recently because of serious complaints
about the persistent flaming and general disagreement over them.
And the overall number of OT posts is certainly less (though a
newbie might not think so) than it was 18 months ago where there
were hundreds of off-topic posts.

-James

> What Crackdown?
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
> To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> Sent: Monday, October 29, 2001 4:11 AM
> Subject: Re: ??
>
>
> > Chill Adam, the group regularly dies when there are "long" waits
> > between books.  In this case there is also the additional factor
> > that a lot of us in the US can't even get ahold of a copy of
> > Honoured Enemy yet.  So the list is quiet, particularly since we
> > have cracked down on the OT topics and the flamewar prone topics
> > (such as Movies).
> >
> > -James
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: <Adam012882@cs.com>
> > To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> > Sent: Sunday, October 28, 2001 11:04 AM
> > Subject: ??
> >
> >
> > > This discussion group  is more dead then my grandmothers 100th
> > birthday
> > > party, recently.
> > >
> >
>



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Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 19:41:52 EST
Subject: Re: Question about Owyn
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*** EOOH ***
From: Valheru89@aol.com
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 19:41:52 EST
Subject: Re: Question about Owyn
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

In a message dated 10/30/01 5:52:27 PM Eastern Standard Time, zso@sednet.hu 
writes:


> Ray said that Owyn is also a magician "to whom Path is a non-issue". Does 
> that make him long-lived as it is with Pug and some members of the 
> Conclave? 
> (Pug and Co. <g>) Or is this ability restricted to those working for gods 
> with or without knowing it? Ray, can you tell us more about this ability or 
> would that be telling too much too soon?
> 
> One could argue that all people manipulating "stuff" work for Sarig but 
> only 
> few of them have the influence of Pug and his companions e.g. live longer. 
> Owyn not playing any further role suggests that he does not have this 
> ability.
> 
> 

I am sorry if I am wrong, but didn't ti say in "The Battle at Sethanon" that 
macros gave the power to pug which gave him the ability to live longer. So 
wouldn't that mean that either Macros or Pug would have to give the power or 
transport the power to Owyn?

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To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
References: <111.780ab08.290d94b9@cs.com> <000f01c15fd3$987001a0$b591aec7@oemcomputer> <001801c16145$86822b80$060e32d2@noaccess> <003201c1619f$95d76460$1492aec7@oemcomputer>
Subject: Re: ??
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 12:17:53 +1100
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James E.Roberts" <jroberts6@vtown.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: ??
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 12:17:53 +1100
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    I never realised there was a list as such, just a group of general taboo
subjects. Other than that I considered the list in a state of general
anarchy.
    Now I know why some members of the list are in the habit of jumping on
other posters, especially newbies. I have to say from the view point of a
newbee these occurrences do seem like a personal attach, and the counter
retaliations, & counter-counter retaliations seem to be the main source of
angst on the list in general.
    Personally I think that certain people on the list should take a step
back, just ignore the OT's & other rubbish that goes on, and leave the
policing of the list to the Admin. It would properly lead to a happier &
less stressed-out list all around. Except for Calvin Musnt, the gloves are
off as far as he is concerned! :)
    Remember, a wise man once said "Everyone has right of freedom of speech,
but no-one has the right to be taken seriously", so feel free to ignore my
ramble.

Have a Great Day!

Jamie
----- Original Message -----
From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2001 11:04 AM
Subject: Re: ??


> It is in reference to the fact that subjects were added to the
> banned topic list relatively recently because of serious complaints
> about the persistent flaming and general disagreement over them.
> And the overall number of OT posts is certainly less (though a
> newbie might not think so) than it was 18 months ago where there
> were hundreds of off-topic posts.
>
> -James
>
> > What Crackdown?
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
> > To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> > Sent: Monday, October 29, 2001 4:11 AM
> > Subject: Re: ??
> >
> >
> > > Chill Adam, the group regularly dies when there are "long" waits
> > > between books.  In this case there is also the additional factor
> > > that a lot of us in the US can't even get ahold of a copy of
> > > Honoured Enemy yet.  So the list is quiet, particularly since we
> > > have cracked down on the OT topics and the flamewar prone topics
> > > (such as Movies).
> > >
> > > -James
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: <Adam012882@cs.com>
> > > To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> > > Sent: Sunday, October 28, 2001 11:04 AM
> > > Subject: ??
> > >
> > >
> > > > This discussion group  is more dead then my grandmothers 100th
> > > birthday
> > > > party, recently.
> > > >
> > >
> >
>



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Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 18:05:20 -0800
From: Carl Dershem <dershem@home.com>
Organization: Project Selene
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT: Eddings of all things would you believe (was RE: 3rd Serpentwar, 
 Nighthawks and Wheel of Time)
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"Paddyjack [ ]" wrote:
> 
> >was her attitude.  It was like "Everyone but me is a helpless idiot so
> >I'm just going to have to tell everyone what to do while acting like it's
> >a horrible imposition to be forced to do so.  If anyone doesn't
> >knuckle under immediately, I'll start by telling them what an utter
> >idiot they are and then make their life so miserable that they never
> >dare argue again.  I'll also respond to any attempt to persuade me
> >to change my mind in the same way."
> >
> That's about similar to the Aes Sedai attitude in Jordan's books. Very annoying after 9 books :-)

Sounds like Jerry Pournelle to me.  I like Jerry, but after a few
decades he can become tiring.



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 18:12:04 -0800
From: Carl Dershem <dershem@home.com>
Organization: Project Selene
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Gods
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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lists@bjs.org.uk wrote:
> 
> [Hi - I'm fairly new to the group. I've kept quiet for a while. I've read
> the FAQ(s), but not found the answers, just lots of inconsistencies. I've
> even downloaded the archive]
> 
> Are the Midkemia Gods and Kelewan Gods just different aspects of the same
> set of divine beings (possibly as many as 120 in number), or are there a
> completely set of different gods for each and every world (meaning there
> could be loads and loads and loads of gods in the whole Universe).

My unmderstanding of this (which is, of necessity, incomplete) is that
the Major Gods (Ishap, He-Who-Is-Not-To-Be-Named, etc), are the same
universe-wide, and just have different facades on different worlds and
with different societies.  But the Minor Gods (Ruthia, Wodar-Hospur,
etc.) vary widely from world to world, being (at least partially)
embodiments of aspects of the belief of the cultures and people there,
and are limited to that world, and (perhaps) to other worlds colonized
from those worlds, if that happens.  How Clerics from one world operate
on other worlds (or in *other* places, such as Honest John's) is an
interesting question - does bringing your beliefs along allow you to
connect to your planetary deities?  Undoubtedly a DM's call.  :)

> In a similar vein, do we know if the Universe is infinite,
> incomprehensibly vast, or just very big?

Yes.
 
> BJS

cd



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From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Gods
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 14:03:33 +0800
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*** EOOH ***
From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Gods
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 14:03:33 +0800
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Didn't ray use a diamond analogy at one stage.

Each God is a diamond and different worlds see different facets of that
diamond, but it is still the same diamond.

CW

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu 
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Carl Dershem
> Sent: Wednesday, 31 October 2001 10:12 AM
> To: FEISTFANS-L
> Subject: Re: Gods
> 
> 
> lists@bjs.org.uk wrote:
> > 
> > [Hi - I'm fairly new to the group. I've kept quiet for a 
> while. I've read
> > the FAQ(s), but not found the answers, just lots of 
> inconsistencies. I've
> > even downloaded the archive]
> > 
> > Are the Midkemia Gods and Kelewan Gods just different 
> aspects of the same
> > set of divine beings (possibly as many as 120 in number), 
> or are there a
> > completely set of different gods for each and every world 
> (meaning there
> > could be loads and loads and loads of gods in the whole Universe).
> 
> My unmderstanding of this (which is, of necessity, incomplete) is that
> the Major Gods (Ishap, He-Who-Is-Not-To-Be-Named, etc), are the same
> universe-wide, and just have different facades on different worlds and
> with different societies.  But the Minor Gods (Ruthia, Wodar-Hospur,
> etc.) vary widely from world to world, being (at least partially)
> embodiments of aspects of the belief of the cultures and people there,
> and are limited to that world, and (perhaps) to other worlds colonized
> from those worlds, if that happens.  How Clerics from one 
> world operate
> on other worlds (or in *other* places, such as Honest John's) is an
> interesting question - does bringing your beliefs along allow you to
> connect to your planetary deities?  Undoubtedly a DM's call.  :)
> 
> > In a similar vein, do we know if the Universe is infinite,
> > incomprehensibly vast, or just very big?
> 
> Yes.
>  
> > BJS
> 
> cd
> 



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Subject: Re: Question about Owyn
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 01:57:52 -0500
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Rich" <richse@eden.rutgers.edu>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Question about Owyn
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 01:57:52 -0500
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

But since Macros and Pug were both chosen by the God(s) to work for
them on earth and given powers, you can say that Macros giving Pug the
ability to live longer is essentially the same as a God giving him the
power. Therefore it would be the same case if Owen were to recieve the
gift.

-Rich-
>  ----- Original Message ----- 
>  From: Valheru89@aol.com 
>  To: FEISTFANS-L 
>  Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2001 7:41 PM
>  Subject: Re: Question about Owyn
>
>
>  In a message dated 10/30/01 5:52:27 PM Eastern Standard Time, zso@sednet.hu writes: 
>
>
>
>    Ray said that Owyn is also a magician "to whom Path is a non-issue". Does 
>    that make him long-lived as it is with Pug and some members of the Conclave? 
>    (Pug and Co. <g>) Or is this ability restricted to those working for gods 
>    with or without knowing it? Ray, can you tell us more about this ability or 
>    would that be telling too much too soon? 
>
>    One could argue that all people manipulating "stuff" work for Sarig but only 
>    few of them have the influence of Pug and his companions e.g. live longer. 
>    Owyn not playing any further role suggests that he does not have this 
>    ability. 
>
>
>
>
>  I am sorry if I am wrong, but didn't ti say in "The Battle at Sethanon" that macros gave the power to pug which gave him the ability to live longer. So wouldn't that mean that either Macros or Pug would have to give the power or transport the power to Owyn? 

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*** EOOH ***
From: "Zsolt Kecskemeti" <zso@sednet.hu>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 11:34:19 +0100
Subject: Re: Question about Owyn
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> But since Macros and Pug were both chosen by the God(s) to work for them
> on earth and given powers, you can say that Macros giving Pug the ability
> to live longer is essentially the same as a God giving him the power.
> Therefore it would be the same case if Owen were to recieve the gift. 

Where does it say that Pug got the ability from Macros? I cannot find that 
part.



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Subject: Re: Question about Owyn [SPOILERS - ADAS]
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Darragh Murray" <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Question about Owyn [SPOILERS - ADAS]
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 21:16:23 +1000
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[SPOILERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1]







A Darkness at Sethanon, specifically when they are in the garden. Pug says
to macros "I am now like you" (sic)


----- Original Message -----
From: Zsolt Kecskemeti <zso@sednet.hu>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2001 8:34 PM
Subject: Re: Question about Owyn


> > But since Macros and Pug were both chosen by the God(s) to work for them
> > on earth and given powers, you can say that Macros giving Pug the ability
> > to live longer is essentially the same as a God giving him the power.
> > Therefore it would be the same case if Owen were to recieve the gift.
>
> Where does it say that Pug got the ability from Macros? I cannot find that
> part.
>



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From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
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Subject: RE: Fonts
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 23:27:44 +0800
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*** EOOH ***
From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Fonts
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 23:27:44 +0800
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This question has come up at least once or twice in the past, so here is
a URL where the Kelt font may be found.

http://members.tripodnet.nl/Annatar/Download.htm

CW

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu 
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Theresa Roden
> Sent: Wednesday, 31 October 2001 2:29 AM
> To: FEISTFANS-L
> Subject: RE: Fonts
> 
> 
> Can anyone provide me with the site for the Kelt font that 
> was used on 
> Magician?  Due to changes in job, I no longer have access to 
> the set of 
> bookmarks that contained that site.  Thanks in advance for the help.
> 
> Theresa
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at 
> http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
> 



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*** EOOH ***
From: "Zsolt Kecskemeti" <zso@sednet.hu>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 21:46:59 +0100
Subject: Re: Question about Owyn [SPOILERS - ADAS]
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I apologize about the spoilers. I also made another mistake in my first post: 
I said I could not read the Legacy books (trivial) but I wanted to say I 
could not read the Krondor series.

S
P
O
I
L
E
R
S

F
O
R

A

D
A
R
K
N
E
S
S

> A Darkness at Sethanon, specifically when they are in the garden. Pug says
> to macros "I am now like you" (sic)

I guess I was wrong when I thought it was an ability that was somehow 
"encoded" in Pug rather then acquired from Macros' well of knowledge.



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Subject: RE: Gods
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 22:17:15 -0000
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A very plausible theory.
This would make the lesser gods mere manifestations of a belief - basically
if enough people in a world believe in a deity for, e.g., citrus fruit, then
the Lemon God becomes a reality.

This would make the Greater Gods absolute, and the Lesser Gods relative.


Let's just say, that in the "large" universe there are a finite number of
worlds inhabited by intelligent beings. This would mean there are a finite
number of Lesser Gods. Therefore it is possible for Midkemia to be important
in the Universe - important to the universal Greater Gods.

You see, without the above, what I have a problem with is why should the
world of Midkemia be important within the whole Universe? Did the Chaos wars
effect the whole universe, or just a select number of worlds. Have other
worlds and their deities been completely unaffected by the Chaos Wars? Why
did the Valheru end up living on Midkemia?

I'm philosophising about a different universe, as I suppose someone might. I
can appreciate that the universe has been 'designed' so that it doesn't fit
into little boxes and follow normal logical rules; there is a certain amount
of incomprehensibility, such as the nature of Ishap - I can accept that one
now.

I also wonder if Pug, or Tomas, or the Ishapians, or Nakor or Macros know
all the answers to the above, and the further questions that easily follow.
I also wonder if Ray and Steve have answers to all of the above, or they
have deliberately decided to leave it 'open', and also give out snippets of
contradictory information, to keep the it inconclusive and incomprehensible.

I think I'm also getting a slight inkling of how Nakor's "there is no magic,
only trickery" works, and also how the same deity might exist (and be
destroyed) due to the people's belief in different worlds - exist in
possibly wildly differing forms on these different worlds. The could mean
that there is a pool of, e.g., 256 'lesser deity things' floating around the
universe, which as people start to believe in the above citrus fruit deity,
one of these deities gets called into being for that particular world as The
Lemon God. Except that I think trying to pin numbers on the members of the
pool is not possible, as they are all aspects of the same universal divine
force (UDF).

So, what I've got now, is that all the gods, lesser and greater, are just
part of the same UDF, and the worldly manifestations are just down to
peoples beliefs. I haven't quite worked out how to 'kill' one, but a
sleeping deity is easy enough. And where does this UDF come from? It just
is! And in fact, that this UDF may just be a part of the spirit and soul of
all living beings throughout the universe, and is really somehow the source
of this "magic" stuff that some people manipulate.

"Yes" :-)

I get the feeling that all I shall really get is more points of view and
opinions and very little in the way of fact, even if REF joins in. Maybe,
just maybe, using our combined intellect, we might be able to fathom out
what goes on in Ray's head!

BJS

PS - Sorry if you're reading this late in the day and can't get your head
around it. Still - this is what keeps me awake some nights.

-----Original Message-----
>From: Carl Dershem [mailto:dershem@home.com]
>Sent: 31 October 2001 02:12
>To: FEISTFANS-L
>Subject: Re: Gods
>
>
>lists@bjs.org.uk wrote:
>>
>> Are the Midkemia Gods and Kelewan Gods just different aspects of the same
>> set of divine beings (possibly as many as 120 in number), or are there a
>> completely set of different gods for each and every world (meaning there
>> could be loads and loads and loads of gods in the whole Universe).
>
>My unmderstanding of this (which is, of necessity, incomplete) is that
>the Major Gods (Ishap, He-Who-Is-Not-To-Be-Named, etc), are the same
>universe-wide, and just have different facades on different worlds and
>with different societies.  But the Minor Gods (Ruthia, Wodar-Hospur,
>etc.) vary widely from world to world, being (at least partially)
>embodiments of aspects of the belief of the cultures and people there,
>and are limited to that world, and (perhaps) to other worlds colonized
>from those worlds, if that happens.  How Clerics from one world operate
>on other worlds (or in *other* places, such as Honest John's) is an
>interesting question - does bringing your beliefs along allow you to
>connect to your planetary deities?  Undoubtedly a DM's call.  :)
>
>> In a similar vein, do we know if the Universe is infinite,
>> incomprehensibly vast, or just very big?
>
>Yes.
>
>> BJS
>
>cd
>


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From: "Jason Martin" <res0b95g@verizon.net>
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Subject: In a Rut
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From: "Jason Martin" <res0b95g@verizon.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: In a Rut
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2001 00:07:04 -0800
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Well I hit one of those moods where I just really do not feel like reading
anything! =(  Its not that I don't want to read, its more like I want to
read but I can't decide on what or who.  I am currently reading the Terry
Goodkind series (sword of truth novels, on book 4) and I just don't feel
like going on with it.  I rather for some reason go back and read the
Riftwar and Eddings books again!!!!  Now what I can not fathom is why since
I've read them all a lot, and the Goodkind book is new.  Does anyone else
get in these moods?  I've had these moods a couple of times, and I usually
end up rereading all my Feist books to get out of it.  So I think I have
come to the conclusion that Ray's writing style is a DRUG and I have to read
his books every so often to get my fix for awhile..  Ray I mean this as a
compliment.  I guess it seems most authors come up short for me.  Anyhow I
have rambled on long enough... Guess I better go read a Feist book. (Faerie
Tale since its only one)

Jason

"There exists no separation between Gods and men;
one blends softly casual into the other."

                         - Proverbs of Muad'Dib



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From: "paul_dutton" <paul_dutton@madasafish.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Gods
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2001 08:19:55 -0000
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From: "paul_dutton" <paul_dutton@madasafish.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Gods
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2001 08:19:55 -0000
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This sounds good.  Much more fun than hearing about the doings of Eddings or
Jordan or other writers; I might de-lurk and take an interest again :-)
Paul

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of lists@bjs.org.uk
> Sent: 31 October 2001 22:17
> To: FEISTFANS-L
> Subject: RE: Gods
>
>
> A very plausible theory.
> This would make the lesser gods mere manifestations of a belief -
> basically
> if enough people in a world believe in a deity for, e.g., citrus
> fruit, then
> the Lemon God becomes a reality.
>
> This would make the Greater Gods absolute, and the Lesser Gods relative.
>
>
> Let's just say, that in the "large" universe there are a finite number of
> worlds inhabited by intelligent beings. This would mean there are a finite
> number of Lesser Gods. Therefore it is possible for Midkemia to
> be important
> in the Universe - important to the universal Greater Gods.
>
> You see, without the above, what I have a problem with is why should the
> world of Midkemia be important within the whole Universe? Did the
> Chaos wars
> effect the whole universe, or just a select number of worlds. Have other
> worlds and their deities been completely unaffected by the Chaos Wars? Why
> did the Valheru end up living on Midkemia?
>
> I'm philosophising about a different universe, as I suppose
> someone might. I
> can appreciate that the universe has been 'designed' so that it
> doesn't fit
> into little boxes and follow normal logical rules; there is a
> certain amount
> of incomprehensibility, such as the nature of Ishap - I can
> accept that one
> now.
>
> I also wonder if Pug, or Tomas, or the Ishapians, or Nakor or Macros know
> all the answers to the above, and the further questions that
> easily follow.
> I also wonder if Ray and Steve have answers to all of the above, or they
> have deliberately decided to leave it 'open', and also give out
> snippets of
> contradictory information, to keep the it inconclusive and
> incomprehensible.
>
> I think I'm also getting a slight inkling of how Nakor's "there
> is no magic,
> only trickery" works, and also how the same deity might exist (and be
> destroyed) due to the people's belief in different worlds - exist in
> possibly wildly differing forms on these different worlds. The could mean
> that there is a pool of, e.g., 256 'lesser deity things' floating
> around the
> universe, which as people start to believe in the above citrus
> fruit deity,
> one of these deities gets called into being for that particular
> world as The
> Lemon God. Except that I think trying to pin numbers on the members of the
> pool is not possible, as they are all aspects of the same universal divine
> force (UDF).
>
> So, what I've got now, is that all the gods, lesser and greater, are just
> part of the same UDF, and the worldly manifestations are just down to
> peoples beliefs. I haven't quite worked out how to 'kill' one, but a
> sleeping deity is easy enough. And where does this UDF come from? It just
> is! And in fact, that this UDF may just be a part of the spirit
> and soul of
> all living beings throughout the universe, and is really somehow
> the source
> of this "magic" stuff that some people manipulate.
>
> "Yes" :-)
>
> I get the feeling that all I shall really get is more points of view and
> opinions and very little in the way of fact, even if REF joins in. Maybe,
> just maybe, using our combined intellect, we might be able to fathom out
> what goes on in Ray's head!
>
> BJS
>
> PS - Sorry if you're reading this late in the day and can't get your head
> around it. Still - this is what keeps me awake some nights.
>
>



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From: Myecho32@aol.com
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2001 03:34:15 EST
Subject: Re: In a Rut
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I have to agree... my friends keep telling me to move on... but I can't I 
miss the characters too much. The Dune series used to be my favorite set... 
House Corrino just came out and I bought it but... 

So no you aren't the only one... it is a drug. I want to read more about 
Arutha and Dashel, Gorath... well no point in naming them all.

Wizard

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*** EOOH ***
From: "Daniel Thoroughgood" <dthoroug@bigpond.net.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: In a Rut
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2001 21:07:08 +1100
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I find I feel something similar quite often.  I like to re-read Ray's books,
but I find that if I read the same author for too long I get bored with
them. As an example of this I've just read The Belgariad and The Malloreon
right through, I'd like to continue on and read the rest of Eddings works
but I'm getting bored with him. So I've decided to re-read Pratchett again
since it's easy, light reading.

Regards,
Dan

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jason Martin" <res0b95g@verizon.net>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2001 7:07 PM
Subject: In a Rut


> Well I hit one of those moods where I just really do not feel like reading
> anything! =(  Its not that I don't want to read, its more like I want to
> read but I can't decide on what or who.  I am currently reading the Terry
> Goodkind series (sword of truth novels, on book 4) and I just don't feel
> like going on with it.  I rather for some reason go back and read the
> Riftwar and Eddings books again!!!!  Now what I can not fathom is why since
> I've read them all a lot, and the Goodkind book is new.  Does anyone else
> get in these moods?  I've had these moods a couple of times, and I usually
> end up rereading all my Feist books to get out of it.  So I think I have
> come to the conclusion that Ray's writing style is a DRUG and I have to read
> his books every so often to get my fix for awhile..  Ray I mean this as a
> compliment.  I guess it seems most authors come up short for me.  Anyhow I
> have rambled on long enough... Guess I better go read a Feist book. (Faerie
> Tale since its only one)
>
> Jason
>
> "There exists no separation between Gods and men;
> one blends softly casual into the other."
>
>                          - Proverbs of Muad'Dib
>



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From: Johan Godfried <Johan@godfried.com>
Subject: Re: In a Rut
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2001 14:15:47 GMT
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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Johan Godfried <Johan@godfried.com>
Subject: Re: In a Rut
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2001 14:15:47 GMT
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I know exactly what you mean but sadly for me, my favourite place to
go to is Kelewan and Mara. It's a pitty that the Empire series is only
a trilogy I. It has turned my wife nut several times already. (Are you
reading those books AGAIN???)

Don't get me wrong, I really enjoy reading the Midkemia book (I just
started in the Serpentwar Saga) but the Empire trilogy is really my
favourite.

Greetinx

Johan.

> Well I hit one of those moods where I just really do not feel like reading
> anything! =(  Its not that I don't want to read, its more like I want to
> read but I can't decide on what or who.  I am currently reading the Terry
> Goodkind series (sword of truth novels, on book 4) and I just don't feel
> like going on with it.  I rather for some reason go back and read the
> Riftwar and Eddings books again!!!!  Now what I can not fathom is why since
> I've read them all a lot, and the Goodkind book is new.  Does anyone else
> get in these moods?  I've had these moods a couple of times, and I usually
> end up rereading all my Feist books to get out of it.  So I think I have
> come to the conclusion that Ray's writing style is a DRUG and I have to read
> his books every so often to get my fix for awhile..  Ray I mean this as a
> compliment.  I guess it seems most authors come up short for me.  Anyhow I
> have rambled on long enough... Guess I better go read a Feist book. (Faerie
> Tale since its only one)
> 
> Jason
> 
> "There exists no separation between Gods and men;
> one blends softly casual into the other."
> 
>                          - Proverbs of Muad'Dib
> 



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Subject: Re: In a Rut
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Whenever I get in "the rut" I always go to Pratchett. It is light
reading you just have fun with and enjoy. After that I can go back
into "epics"...

Has anyone heard from Ray lately?? Seems like he missed a few chances
to reply and I hadn't heard he was leaving the list for awhile.



Jim



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From: Johan Godfried <Johan@godfried.com>
Subject: The Serpentwar SAGA
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2001 14:22:13 GMT
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From: Johan Godfried <Johan@godfried.com>
Subject: The Serpentwar SAGA
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2001 14:22:13 GMT
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Hi all,

I just bought the 4 books of the Serpentwar SAGA (Dutch translation,
4th print) and I was wondering about 2 things.

First of all there is a mention of Duke Markus of Schreiborg (Hertog
Markus in dutch) I don't recall that ther was a duke called Markus. I
only know about duke Martin Longbow (Martin Langboog in dutch). Is
that a typo or was there a duke called Markus in Schreiborg?
(Actually, I don't even know whether the place is called Schreiborg in
english).

And the second thing I wondered about is the fact that Calis (Caelis
in dutch) mentions the name of Arutha after his death. He actually
says: "Arutha is dead". I know Calis is not a pure elf but he was
brought up in Elvandar so I would assume that he would be following
the tradition of not mentioning the name of a dead person.

Does anyone know the answers? I would apreciate it. Thanx.

Greetinx

Johan.



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Subject: Re: The Serpentwar SAGA
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From: "DPont" <d.pontolaeng@chello.nl>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: The Serpentwar SAGA
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2001 15:38:01 +0100
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Hi!!!

I am a dutch girl so I know the answers!!
First of all Schreiborg is Crydee in English.
Second Markus is the son of Martin and Martin went to Elvandar so now Markus
is the duke of Schreiborg.
Markus was a character in the book where they first went to Novindus.

I don't know about Caelis, but I think he just forgot or something.

Tot Dob!!
Stefanie
----- Original Message -----
From: "Johan Godfried" <Johan@godfried.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2001 3:22 PM
Subject: The Serpentwar SAGA


> Hi all,
>
> I just bought the 4 books of the Serpentwar SAGA (Dutch translation, 4th print) and I was
> wondering about 2 things.
>
> First of all there is a mention of Duke Markus of Schreiborg (Hertog Markus in dutch) I
> don't recall that ther was a duke called Markus. I only know about duke Martin Longbow
> (Martin Langboog in dutch). Is that a typo or was there a duke called Markus in
> Schreiborg? (Actually, I don't even know whether the place is called Schreiborg in
> english).
>
> And the second thing I wondered about is the fact that Calis (Caelis in dutch) mentions
> the name of Arutha after his death. He actually says: "Arutha is dead". I know Calis is
> not a pure elf but he was brought up in Elvandar so I would assume that he would be
> following the tradition of not mentioning the name of a dead person.
>
> Does anyone know the answers? I would apreciate it. Thanx.
>
> Greetinx
>
> Johan.
>



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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: The Serpentwar SAGA
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Hiya,

At 02:22 PM 11/1/01 +0000, Johan Godfried wrote:
>First of all there is a mention of Duke Markus of Schreiborg (Hertog Markus in dutch) I
>don't recall that ther was a duke called Markus. 

Markus is Martin's son.  See The King's Buccaneer.  He
inherits from Martin.

And it is 'Crydee', which has nothing to do with 'to cry'
(schreien in German, certainly similar in Dutch), so the
people responsible for the translations (either the translaters
or their publishers/editors) got it wrong.  That's been
discussed before on the list, but you'll need to talk to
some of the other Dutch on the list to get the whole story.

>And the second thing I wondered about is the fact that Calis (Caelis in dutch) mentions
>the name of Arutha after his death. He actually says: "Arutha is dead". I know Calis is
>not a pure elf but he was brought up in Elvandar so I would assume that he would be
>following the tradition of not mentioning the name of a dead person.

Calis is of two cultures.  He can draw on the customs and
courtesies of either as necessary.  

rip



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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Johan Godfried <Johan@godfried.com>
Subject: Re: The Serpentwar SAGA
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2001 15:03:20 GMT
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Now that you mention it, I knew about Crydee and slowly but shorely
the fact that Markus was Martins son comes back bit by bit. (I must
re-read The King's Buccaneer one day)

Thanks for the refresh.

I find it very strange that Caelis mentions Arutha more than once.

Greetinx

Johan.

> Hi!!!
> 
> I am a dutch girl so I know the answers!!
> First of all Schreiborg is Crydee in English.
> Second Markus is the son of Martin and Martin went to Elvandar so now Markus
> is the duke of Schreiborg.
> Markus was a character in the book where they first went to Novindus.
> 
> I don't know about Caelis, but I think he just forgot or something.
> 
> Tot Dob!!
> Stefanie



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Subject: Re: In a Rut
References: <003d01c162ac$3308db80$65313c04@vz.dsl.genuity.net>
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From: Andrea J Chee <andrea@bloodaxe.com>
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In article <003d01c162ac$3308db80$65313c04@vz.dsl.genuity.net>, Jason
Martin <res0b95g@verizon.net> writes

> I rather for some reason go back and read the
>Riftwar and Eddings books again!!!!  Now what I can not fathom is why since
>I've read them all a lot, and the Goodkind book is new.  Does anyone else
>get in these moods?  

Old favourites I've read before are like old friends, whereas reading
new ones is like meeting new (and sometimes fascinating) people. Just as
some days I want to socialise but other days I just want to settle in
and get comfortable for a chat with old friends, there are some days
I'll want to read something new and others when I'd prefer spending time
with those I already know.

- ANDREA

-- 
  Get PAID for the emails you already send and receive! 
http://www.mailround.com/  Referrer: andrea@bloodaxe.com
^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^
                  ANDROMEDA - Internet Goddess
<andrea@bloodaxe.com>                    http://www.bloodaxe.com/
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Subject: Re: The Serpentwar SAGA
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From: "DPont" <d.pontolaeng@chello.nl>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: The Serpentwar SAGA
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2001 18:24:47 +0100
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Maybe Calis does that because in the Serpentwar Saga he thinks he doesn't
belong anywhere and he is very confused.
Another explanation may be that Arutha had to be mentioned or otherwise we
wouldn't understand who he was talking about

Tot Dob!
Stefanie

----- Original Message -----
From: "Johan Godfried" <Johan@godfried.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2001 4:03 PM
Subject: Re: The Serpentwar SAGA


> Now that you mention it, I knew about Crydee and slowly but shorely the fact that Markus
> was Martins son comes back bit by bit. (I must re-read The King's Buccaneer one day)
>
> Thanks for the refresh.
>
> I find it very strange that Caelis mentions Arutha more than once.
>
> Greetinx
>
> Johan.
>
> > Hi!!!
> >
> > I am a dutch girl so I know the answers!!
> > First of all Schreiborg is Crydee in English.
> > Second Markus is the son of Martin and Martin went to Elvandar so now Markus
> > is the duke of Schreiborg.
> > Markus was a character in the book where they first went to Novindus.
> >
> > I don't know about Caelis, but I think he just forgot or something.
> >
> > Tot Dob!!
> > Stefanie
>



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From: "Michael Gibson" <gibfish@gibbyco.freeserve.co.uk>
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Subject: RE: Gods
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From: "Michael Gibson" <gibfish@gibbyco.freeserve.co.uk>
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> A very plausible theory.
> This would make the lesser gods mere manifestations of a belief - basically
> if enough people in a world believe in a deity for, e.g., citrus fruit, then
> the Lemon God becomes a reality.
>
> This would make the Greater Gods absolute, and the Lesser Gods relative.

I think that the gods are more of a two way thing - there were a hundred lower
gods (before the Chaos Wars), and their consciousness affects the beliefs of the
people, and also, the beliefs of the people affect the lesser gods.  And the
lesser gods were universal also.  At least I think so - Ray, are the Kelewanese
gods different facets of the Midkemian ones, or are they a different kettle of
fish?

> Let's just say, that in the "large" universe there are a finite number of
> worlds inhabited by intelligent beings. This would mean there are a finite
> number of Lesser Gods. Therefore it is possible for Midkemia to be important
> in the Universe - important to the universal Greater Gods.

<snip>

> I also wonder if Pug, or Tomas, or the Ishapians, or Nakor or Macros know
> all the answers to the above, and the further questions that easily follow.
> I also wonder if Ray and Steve have answers to all of the above, or they
> have deliberately decided to leave it 'open', and also give out snippets of
> contradictory information, to keep the it inconclusive and incomprehensible.

I don't think so - I get the feeling that the reader knows pretty much as much
as the prominent individuals (dramatic irony sort of), although we don't know as
many details.

> I think I'm also getting a slight inkling of how Nakor's "there is no magic,
> only trickery" works, and also how the same deity might exist (and be
> destroyed) due to the people's belief in different worlds - exist in
> possibly wildly differing forms on these different worlds. The could mean
> that there is a pool of, e.g., 256 'lesser deity things' floating around the
> universe, which as people start to believe in the above citrus fruit deity,
> one of these deities gets called into being for that particular world as The
> Lemon God. Except that I think trying to pin numbers on the members of the
> pool is not possible, as they are all aspects of the same universal divine
> force (UDF).

Have you been reading about GUT recently ;)?

But that is a point - what is the relationship between the lesser and controller
gods?

Were the Controller gods in existance when the Two Blind Gods were around?  IMO,
they were, and the lesser gods assumed the role of the blind gods.

> So, what I've got now, is that all the gods, lesser and greater, are just
> part of the same UDF, and the worldly manifestations are just down to
> peoples beliefs. I haven't quite worked out how to 'kill' one, but a
> sleeping deity is easy enough. And where does this UDF come from? It just
> is! And in fact, that this UDF may just be a part of the spirit and soul of
> all living beings throughout the universe, and is really somehow the source
> of this "magic" stuff that some people manipulate.
>
> "Yes" :-)
>
> I get the feeling that all I shall really get is more points of view and
> opinions and very little in the way of fact, even if REF joins in. Maybe,
> just maybe, using our combined intellect, we might be able to fathom out
> what goes on in Ray's head!

I don't even know much about my own head (at least I think that's what this is
at the opposite of my neck to my body), so I'll be little help ;).

> BJS
>
> PS - Sorry if you're reading this late in the day and can't get your head
> around it. Still - this is what keeps me awake some nights.

Sleeeeep.

Call me stupid - I've just trained up IBM Viavoice, and using it is like
dictating to a foreign hotel on a mobile phone.  You turn up, and find out
you're booked in as "Murlindof Grakinson".

Mike,
Gibfish of the West

"Better to light a candle than to curse the darkness."
Confucius



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Latest additions to my collection

A few more Hungarian Edition
A couple of tKB proofs
A KToG Proof
A RoaDK proof
A SoaDQ proof
and another boring Magician APE proof

I am sure there were some more, but I forget <G>
-- 
John

john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.

Raymond E Feist Ring
http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm



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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: John <john@crydee.com>
Subject: Playing in other peoples sand pits
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Ray,

        You have now had other people play in your sandpit, and I guess
enjoyed it.
        Is there someone else's sandpit you would like to play in ?

        Is there a book which you have read where you would really like
to do something horrid to 'that really nice guy' or something similar
-- 
John

john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.

Raymond E Feist Ring
http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm



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Subject: Re: One for the collectors
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2001 09:37:38 +1300
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From: "garywright" <garywright@xtra.co.nz>
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Subject: Re: One for the collectors
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2001 09:37:38 +1300
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I just finally managed to get hold of First Edition copies of Kings
Buccaneer and Prince of the Blood.

The prices people want for FE Magician/Silverthorn/Sethanon are a bit beyond
me at the moment though :-)

One day...
----- Original Message -----
From: "John" <john@crydee.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Friday, November 02, 2001 8:03 AM
Subject: One for the collectors


> Latest additions to my collection
>
> A few more Hungarian Edition
> A couple of tKB proofs
> A KToG Proof
> A RoaDK proof
> A SoaDQ proof
> and another boring Magician APE proof
>
> I am sure there were some more, but I forget <G>
> --
> John
>
> john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
> http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.
>
> Raymond E Feist Ring
> http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm
>



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From: "Theresa Roden" <lady_hoby@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Gods
Date: Thu, 01 Nov 2001 14:57:25 -0600
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From: "Theresa Roden" <lady_hoby@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Gods
Date: Thu, 01 Nov 2001 14:57:25 -0600
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Has anyone read P.C. Hodgsell's (sp?) God Stalk?  There is an interesting 
bit in there about what happens to a god when his followers don't believe in 
him anymore or when a priest decides to change things without divine 
authority.

The whole novel is about one girl's search for the meaning behind her 
people's particular gods and what she goes through in the search.  
Interesting read in my opinion.

Theresa

>
> > A very plausible theory.
> > This would make the lesser gods mere manifestations of a belief - 
>basically
> > if enough people in a world believe in a deity for, e.g., citrus fruit, 
>then
> > the Lemon God becomes a reality.
> >
> > This would make the Greater Gods absolute, and the Lesser Gods relative.
>
>I think that the gods are more of a two way thing - there were a hundred 
>lower
>gods (before the Chaos Wars), and their consciousness affects the beliefs 
>of the
>people, and also, the beliefs of the people affect the lesser gods.  And 
>the
>lesser gods were universal also.  At least I think so - Ray, are the 
>Kelewanese
>gods different facets of the Midkemian ones, or are they a different kettle 
>of
>fish?
>

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp



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Subject: Re: The Serpentwar SAGA
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2001 13:04:10 -0800
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From: "Kevykev" <kevykev@sbcglobal.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: The Serpentwar SAGA
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2001 13:04:10 -0800
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Duke Marcus is Martin's son and Calis was living among humans at the time
and learned human culture.In the King's Buccaneer Calis states he is
attracted to his humanity and his elven nature makes him feel restless.

        Kev
----- Original Message -----
From: "Johan Godfried" <Johan@godfried.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2001 6:22 AM
Subject: The Serpentwar SAGA


> Hi all,
>
> I just bought the 4 books of the Serpentwar SAGA (Dutch translation, 4th print) and I was
> wondering about 2 things.
>
> First of all there is a mention of Duke Markus of Schreiborg (Hertog Markus in dutch) I
> don't recall that ther was a duke called Markus. I only know about duke Martin Longbow
> (Martin Langboog in dutch). Is that a typo or was there a duke called Markus in
> Schreiborg? (Actually, I don't even know whether the place is called Schreiborg in
> english).
>
> And the second thing I wondered about is the fact that Calis (Caelis in dutch) mentions
> the name of Arutha after his death. He actually says: "Arutha is dead". I know Calis is
> not a pure elf but he was brought up in Elvandar so I would assume that he would be
> following the tradition of not mentioning the name of a dead person.
>
> Does anyone know the answers? I would apreciate it. Thanx.
>
> Greetinx
>
> Johan.
>



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To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
References: <6e.1252df94.2912b340@aol.com>
Subject: Re: In a Rut
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From: "Darren McClung" <d@dwmc.org>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: In a Rut
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2001 15:09:16 -0600
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> Has anyone heard from Ray lately?? Seems like he missed a few chances to
> reply and I hadn't heard he was leaving the list for awhile.
>

Good question.  Unless I've lost some messages, I don't show that he has
posted since 9 Oct.

Darren



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Subject: Re: The Serpentwar SAGA
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From: "Kevykev" <kevykev@sbcglobal.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: The Serpentwar SAGA
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2001 13:10:21 -0800
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No I don't think Arutha had to be named by Calis and elves in past books
have refered of the dead by naming descriptions or titles of the dead.Calis
desired his human heritage more than his elven heritage.

                  Kev
----- Original Message -----
From: "DPont" <d.pontolaeng@chello.nl>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2001 9:24 AM
Subject: Re: The Serpentwar SAGA


> Maybe Calis does that because in the Serpentwar Saga he thinks he doesn't
> belong anywhere and he is very confused.
> Another explanation may be that Arutha had to be mentioned or otherwise we
> wouldn't understand who he was talking about
>
> Tot Dob!
> Stefanie
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Johan Godfried" <Johan@godfried.com>
> To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2001 4:03 PM
> Subject: Re: The Serpentwar SAGA
>
>
> > Now that you mention it, I knew about Crydee and slowly but shorely the
> fact that Markus
> > was Martins son comes back bit by bit. (I must re-read The King's
> Buccaneer one day)
> >
> > Thanks for the refresh.
> >
> > I find it very strange that Caelis mentions Arutha more than once.
> >
> > Greetinx
> >
> > Johan.
> >
> > > Hi!!!
> > >
> > > I am a dutch girl so I know the answers!!
> > > First of all Schreiborg is Crydee in English.
> > > Second Markus is the son of Martin and Martin went to Elvandar so now
> Markus
> > > is the duke of Schreiborg.
> > > Markus was a character in the book where they first went to Novindus.
> > >
> > > I don't know about Caelis, but I think he just forgot or something.
> > >
> > > Tot Dob!!
> > > Stefanie
> >
>



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Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2001 08:34:27 +1100 (EST)
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Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2001 08:34:27 +1100 (EST)
From: David Smith - NT Interoperability Engineer <David.M.Smith@Sun.COM>
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Indeed. I have the "Chronicles of the Kencyrath" which is God Stalk and Dark of 
the Moon in a single edition, which is how it was published in the UK and Aus... 
in VERY small numbers. I have Seekers Mask ordered, which I'm looking forward 
to. Oh, and BTW it's P.C. Hodgell.

Gotta love the stuff in Tai-Tastigon, a city which is infested with gods. Gods 
in thier prime, gods past thier prime, small gods, big gods, even gods who have 
basically become bums due to a lack of belief :)

And THE dance... I really have to give that another read one of these days. I'd 
go a step further than interesting and say if you have the chance to read the 
Kencyrath books, do it.

-- David Smith

» Has anyone read P.C. Hodgsell's (sp?) God Stalk?  There is an interesting 
» bit in there about what happens to a god when his followers don't believe in 
» him anymore or when a priest decides to change things without divine 
» authority.
» 
» The whole novel is about one girl's search for the meaning behind her 
» people's particular gods and what she goes through in the search.  
» Interesting read in my opinion.
» 
» Theresa
» 
» >
» > > A very plausible theory.
» > > This would make the lesser gods mere manifestations of a belief - 
» >basically
» > > if enough people in a world believe in a deity for, e.g., citrus fruit, 
» >then
» > > the Lemon God becomes a reality.
» > >
» > > This would make the Greater Gods absolute, and the Lesser Gods relative.
» >
» >I think that the gods are more of a two way thing - there were a hundred 
» >lower
» >gods (before the Chaos Wars), and their consciousness affects the beliefs 
» >of the
» >people, and also, the beliefs of the people affect the lesser gods.  And 
» >the
» >lesser gods were universal also.  At least I think so - Ray, are the 
» >Kelewanese
» >gods different facets of the Midkemian ones, or are they a different kettle 
» >of
» >fish?
» >
» 
» _________________________________________________________________
» Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
» 



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Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2001 14:06:14 -0800
Subject: Re: Playing in other peoples sand pits
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
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On Thursday, November 1, 2001, at 11:00 AM, John wrote:

> Ray,
>
>         You have now had other people play in your sandpit, and I guess
> enjoyed it.
>         Is there someone else's sandpit you would like to play in ?

Hmmm.  Not off the top of my head in fantasy.  In a few other areas, 
yup.  I'd love to write the "last" Travis McGee novel, now that John D. 
McDonald is no longer with us.  And I'd have enjoyed writing the last 
Dumarest of Terra novel, though I think E.C.Tubbs did write it, though 
if memory serves DAW wouldn't publish it.

There are probably some others if I thought on it long enough.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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From: Allan Mills <milla@css.com.au>
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 To all those people who have been trying to unsubscribe lately, don't send
to this e-mail address. Send an e-mail to listproc@cornell.edu with the
following as the body of the message : UNSUBSCRIBE FEISTFANS-L

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> -----Original Message-----
> From: Peter Senser [mailto:pvsenser@yahoo.com]
> Sent: Friday, November 02, 2001 10:53 AM
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> unsubscribe
> 
> 
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> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
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Subject: Re: One for the collectors
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And just where is this *magical* store that stocks all these items?  I would
really like to pay it a visit!   :)

Rob Kolech

> Latest additions to my collection
>
> A few more Hungarian Edition
> A couple of tKB proofs
> A KToG Proof
> A RoaDK proof
> A SoaDQ proof
> and another boring Magician APE proof
>
> I am sure there were some more, but I forget <G>



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garywright <garywright@xtra.co.nz> writes
>I just finally managed to get hold of First Edition copies of Kings
>Buccaneer and Prince of the Blood.
>
>The prices people want for FE Magician/Silverthorn/Sethanon are a bit beyond
>me at the moment though :-)
>
>One day...
The worst thing is it is like housing was in the UK in the early '80's 
if you didn't buy you never would, prices were out stripping income
-- 
John

john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.

Raymond E Feist Ring
http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2001 07:44:10 +0000
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: John <john@crydee.com>
Subject: Re: unsubscribe
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Allan Mills <milla@css.com.au> writes
> To all those people who have been trying to unsubscribe lately, don't send
>to this e-mail address. Send an e-mail to listproc@cornell.edu with the
>following as the body of the message : UNSUBSCRIBE FEISTFANS-L
>
> Allan
Don't worry. I get people trying to subscribe by sending a SUBSCRIBE 
email to feistfans@crydee.com !

-- 
John

john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.

Raymond E Feist Ring
http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm



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From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: One for the collectors
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2001 23:39:13 +0800
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*** EOOH ***
From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: One for the collectors
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2001 23:39:13 +0800
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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You've seen Duck Tales haven't you? He has a massive vault like Scrooge
McDuck full of all his Feist related items that he dives into and swims
about in :)

CW

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu 
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Rob Kolech
> Sent: Friday, 2 November 2001 10:01 AM
> To: FEISTFANS-L
> Subject: Re: One for the collectors
> 
> 
> And just where is this *magical* store that stocks all these 
> items?  I would
> really like to pay it a visit!   :)
> 
> Rob Kolech
> 
> > Latest additions to my collection
> >
> > A few more Hungarian Edition
> > A couple of tKB proofs
> > A KToG Proof
> > A RoaDK proof
> > A SoaDQ proof
> > and another boring Magician APE proof
> >
> > I am sure there were some more, but I forget <G>
> 
> 



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Subject: RE: One for the collectors
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From: "Lowder, Jason" <jasonl@spfld.kebcpa.com>
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*** EOOH ***
Subject: RE: One for the collectors
content-class: urn:content-classes:message
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2001 09:49:32 -0600
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From: "Lowder, Jason" <jasonl@spfld.kebcpa.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
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Can you imagine the papercuts!  You would spend a whole other fortune on
peroxide!

JL

-----Original Message-----
>From: David Pengelley [mailto:wolf@icenet.com.au] 
>Sent: Friday, November 02, 2001 9:39 AM
>To: FEISTFANS-L
>Subject: RE: One for the collectors
>
>You've seen Duck Tales haven't you? He has a massive vault like Scrooge
>McDuck full of all his Feist related items that he dives into and swims
>about in :)
>
>CW
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu 
>> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Rob Kolech
>> Sent: Friday, 2 November 2001 10:01 AM
>> To: FEISTFANS-L
>> Subject: Re: One for the collectors
>> 
>> 
>> And just where is this *magical* store that stocks all these 
>> items?  I would
>> really like to pay it a visit!   :)
>> 
>> Rob Kolech
>> 
>> > Latest additions to my collection
>> >
>> > A few more Hungarian Edition
>> > A couple of tKB proofs
>> > A KToG Proof
>> > A RoaDK proof
>> > A SoaDQ proof
>> > and another boring Magician APE proof
>> >
>> > I am sure there were some more, but I forget <G>
>> 
>> 
>


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*** EOOH ***
From: dreamfish@space.com
Date: 2 Nov 2001 10:44:06 -0800
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On Fri, 02 November 2001, "Lowder, Jason" wrote:

> 
> Can you imagine the papercuts!  You would spend a whole other fortune on
> peroxide!
> 
> JL
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: David Pengelley [mailto:wolf@icenet.com.au] 
> Sent: Friday, November 02, 2001 9:39 AM
> To: FEISTFANS-L
> Subject: RE: One for the collectors
> 
> You've seen Duck Tales haven't you? He has a massive vault like Scrooge
> McDuck full of all his Feist related items that he dives into and swims
> about in :)
> > 
  
OH..STOP!! You two are making my sides hurt from laughing! I can just
picture John doing the backstroke through his volumes, and yelping
everytime he gets a nick.
 

 John, you DO know we love ya, right?
  
 Anita
  
'Every happy ending needs to have a start.'

___________________________________________________________________
Join the Space Program: Get FREE E-mail at http://www.space.com.



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Date: Fri, 02 Nov 2001 14:42:39 -0500
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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Larry Siegel <larry@psihawk.com>
Subject: New publishing by REF... (no joke)
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 02 Nov 2001 14:42:39 -0500
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Larry Siegel <larry@psihawk.com>
Subject: New publishing by REF... (no joke)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Hey....

I just came back from Waldenbooks... (I went to pick up the new Star Wars
and the new Tara K Harper) Anyway.....

I came across a book called "Meditations On Middle-Earth"
Edited by Karen Haber, which features Essays, and meditations on
Middle-Earth and Tolkein.... by... Orson Scott Card, Usula K Le Guin,
Raymond E. Feist, Terry Pratchett, Charles de Lint, George RR Martin...
and more....

(Ray is actually the first author published inside the book....)

Was anyone else aware of this??? (It just came out Tuesday)



Larry

My Homepage
http://www.psihawk.com

Raymond E. Feist FAQ
http://www.psihawk.com/feist



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Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2001 15:10:42 -0800
Subject: Re: New publishing by REF... (no joke)
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2001 15:10:42 -0800
Subject: Re: New publishing by REF... (no joke)
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Friday, November 2, 2001, at 11:42 AM, Larry Siegel wrote:

> Hey....
>
> I just came back from Waldenbooks... (I went to pick up the new Star 
> Wars
> and the new Tara K Harper) Anyway.....
>
> I came across a book called "Meditations On Middle-Earth"
> Edited by Karen Haber, which features Essays, and meditations on
> Middle-Earth and Tolkein.... by... Orson Scott Card, Usula K Le Guin,
> Raymond E. Feist, Terry Pratchett, Charles de Lint, George RR Martin...
> and more....
>
> (Ray is actually the first author published inside the book....)
>
> Was anyone else aware of this??? (It just came out Tuesday)
>
Ya, I sort of knew something about it. . . .

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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References: <20011102184406.925.cpmta@c000.snv.cp.net>
Subject: Re: One for the collectors
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James E.Roberts" <jroberts6@vtown.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: One for the collectors
Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2001 11:15:02 +1100
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----- Original Message -----
From: <dreamfish@space.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Saturday, November 03, 2001 5:44 AM
Subject: RE: One for the collectors


> On Fri, 02 November 2001, "Lowder, Jason" wrote:
>
> >
> > Can you imagine the papercuts!  You would spend a whole other fortune on
> > peroxide!
> >
> > JL
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: David Pengelley [mailto:wolf@icenet.com.au]
> > Sent: Friday, November 02, 2001 9:39 AM
> > To: FEISTFANS-L
> > Subject: RE: One for the collectors
> >
> > You've seen Duck Tales haven't you? He has a massive vault like Scrooge
> > McDuck full of all his Feist related items that he dives into and swims
> > about in :)
> > >
>
> OH..STOP!! You two are making my sides hurt from laughing! I can just
>picture John doing the backstroke through his volumes, and yelping everytime
>he gets a nick.
    Then you could be nasty & attack him with a lemon-juice squirter.

Jamie



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Subject: Re: One for the collectors
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Julie Wootten" <wootten@xtra.co.nz>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: One for the collectors
Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2001 13:20:56 +1300
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As one who has ::cough:: rolled and frolicked in a huge bin of books, I can 
say that I suffered not a single paper-cut.

Julie.

> Can you imagine the papercuts!  You would spend a whole other fortune on
> peroxide!
> 
> JL
>> You've seen Duck Tales haven't you? He has a massive vault like Scrooge
>> McDuck full of all his Feist related items that he dives into and swims
>> about in :)
>> 
>> CW




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From: "Michael Gibson" <gibfish@gibbyco.freeserve.co.uk>
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Subject: RE: One for the collectors
Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2001 19:41:03 -0000
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*** EOOH ***
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: "Michael Gibson" <gibfish@gibbyco.freeserve.co.uk>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: One for the collectors
Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2001 19:41:03 -0000
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

> As one who has ::cough:: rolled and frolicked in a huge bin of books, I can 
> say that I suffered not a single paper-cut.
> 
> Julie.

Any reason for choosing the book bin, or was it just convenient? ;)

Mike,
Gibfish of the West


> > Can you imagine the papercuts!  You would spend a whole other fortune on
> > peroxide!
> > 
> > JL
> >> You've seen Duck Tales haven't you? He has a massive vault like Scrooge
> >> McDuck full of all his Feist related items that he dives into and swims
> >> about in :)
> >> 
> >> CW
> 
> 
> 



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Subject: OT: Dune Prequels
Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2001 02:30:40 -0800
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Jason Martin" <res0b95g@verizon.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: OT: Dune Prequels
Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2001 02:30:40 -0800
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Ok, folks I know this is OT, but this list is dead. Its more a letter for
all you Dune fans out there.  If you have not read the prequels, then please
give them a try.  I found some good stuff in there that answered some
questions posed by Frank Herbert in God Emporer through ChapterHouse Dune.
Plus if flushed out several of the characters in the books.  Great read
while we wait for Ray's next books.

Jason

"There exsists no separation between Gods and men;
one blends softly casual into the other."

                         - Proverbs of Muad'Dib
webpage:  www.foxinternet.net/web2/maulder



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sun, 04 Nov 2001 22:04:45 +0800
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Wogan <wogan@iinet.net.au>
Subject: Re: unsubscribe
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


I don't suppose cornell could filter out all messages with unsubscribe in 
the subject? (saves me doing it ;)

At 03:44 PM 2/11/2001, you wrote:
>Allan Mills <milla@css.com.au> writes
>>To all those people who have been trying to unsubscribe lately, don't send
>>to this e-mail address. Send an e-mail to listproc@cornell.edu with the
>>following as the body of the message : UNSUBSCRIBE FEISTFANS-L
>>
>>Allan
>Don't worry. I get people trying to subscribe by sending a SUBSCRIBE email 
>to feistfans@crydee.com !
>
>--
>John
>
>john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
>http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.
>
>Raymond E Feist Ring
>http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm
>

----
Wogan (wogan@iinet.net.au)



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sun, 04 Nov 2001 11:35:47 -0700
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT: Dune Prequels
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Jason Martin wrote:
> 
> Ok, folks I know this is OT, but this list is dead.

*laugh* You think THIS list is dead? This list still avgs nearly more
posts a day than the Dragonlance mailing list is getting a week right
now :), and we've had new books/anthologies out almost every month this
year. Even probably the second most anticipated books of the year didn't
spark much conversation. Sort of odd, really.

Craig J. Ries



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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Dan Lorey <dl24@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: unsubscribe
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sun, 04 Nov 2001 13:36:57 -0500
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Dan Lorey <dl24@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: unsubscribe
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

At 22:04 11/4/01 +0800, Wogan <wogan@iinet.net.au> wrote:
>
>I don't suppose cornell could filter out all messages with unsubscribe in 
>the subject? (saves me doing it ;)

  Cornell's list servers used to filter out most of the unsubscribe
messages, then they went and upgraded the software and the filtering
stopped. I don't have any commands to fix it on a single list level, 
and my emails about the problem to those in charge haven't accomplished 
anything yet (although they're still transferring lists to the new 
software and are finding and fixing more critical problems first). So 
I'm afraid that it's something we'll have to live with for the moment,
but at least it's just an annoyance instead of a fatal error that shuts
down the list.

  Dan Lorey - Feistfans-l List Owner



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Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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From: "Michael Gibson" <gibfish@gibbyco.freeserve.co.uk>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: New publishing by REF... (no joke)
Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2001 18:53:09 -0000
Message-ID: <NGELLDNAEMBGGGHFAJPBKEOMCIAA.gibfish@gibbyco.freeserve.co.uk>
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*** EOOH ***
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: "Michael Gibson" <gibfish@gibbyco.freeserve.co.uk>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: New publishing by REF... (no joke)
Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2001 18:53:09 -0000
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

> > Hey....
> >
> > I just came back from Waldenbooks... (I went to pick up the new Star
> > Wars
> > and the new Tara K Harper) Anyway.....
> >
> > I came across a book called "Meditations On Middle-Earth"
> > Edited by Karen Haber, which features Essays, and meditations on
> > Middle-Earth and Tolkein.... by... Orson Scott Card, Usula K Le Guin,
> > Raymond E. Feist, Terry Pratchett, Charles de Lint, George RR Martin...
> > and more....
> >
> > (Ray is actually the first author published inside the book....)
> >
> > Was anyone else aware of this??? (It just came out Tuesday)
> >
> Ya, I sort of knew something about it. . . .

Funny that... ;)

How's the writing going?  Did you say that you'd started Talon, and were some
way into Jimmy the Hand?

Mike,
Gibfish of the West.



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From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
References: <2.2.32.20011104183657.01003b70@postoffice2.mail.cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: unsubscribe
Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2001 15:08:54 -0600
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: unsubscribe
Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2001 15:08:54 -0600
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

    I would rather they fixed the problem of bouncing commentaries
that happen to mesh with Listproc commands back to you when they are
mailed to the list.  It really limits some of my postings, because I
don't have time to continuously fix the commentary so all possible
listproc commands are circumvented.  The unsubscribe issue is easy
enough to filter, though I am sure none of us would cry if they
managed to get that fixed.

-James

----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan Lorey" <dl24@cornell.edu>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Sunday, November 04, 2001 12:36 PM
Subject: Re: unsubscribe


> At 22:04 11/4/01 +0800, Wogan <wogan@iinet.net.au> wrote:
> >
> >I don't suppose cornell could filter out all messages with unsubscribe in
> >the subject? (saves me doing it ;)
>
>   Cornell's list servers used to filter out most of the unsubscribe
> messages, then they went and upgraded the software and the filtering
> stopped. I don't have any commands to fix it on a single list level,
> and my emails about the problem to those in charge haven't accomplished
> anything yet (although they're still transferring lists to the new
> software and are finding and fixing more critical problems first). So
> I'm afraid that it's something we'll have to live with for the moment,
> but at least it's just an annoyance instead of a fatal error that shuts
> down the list.
>
>   Dan Lorey - Feistfans-l List Owner
>



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sun, 04 Nov 2001 14:45:58 -0700
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: unsubscribe
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

James Young wrote:
> 
>     I would rather they fixed the problem of bouncing commentaries
> that happen to mesh with Listproc commands back to you when they are
> mailed to the list.  It really limits some of my postings, because I
> don't have time to continuously fix the commentary so all possible
> listproc commands are circumvented.  The unsubscribe issue is easy
> enough to filter, though I am sure none of us would cry if they
> managed to get that fixed.

Not entirely sure what the above paragraph is saying (never ran a
listserv before :) but maybe it would help if a msg was attached to the
bottom of msgs saying how you can unsubscribe? I've seen other lists do
this, and although it doesn't solve all these unsubscribes being sent to
the list itself, it would probably help.

Craig J. Ries



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X-PH: V4.1@cornell.edu (Cornell Modified) 
From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
References: <2.2.32.20011104183657.01003b70@postoffice2.mail.cornell.edu> <000f01c16574$ea29bc60$ace979a5@oemcomputer> <3BE5B716.6C9F73D4@yifan.net>
Subject: Re: unsubscribe
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: unsubscribe
Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2001 17:05:12 -0600
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Sometimes, if you type in certain world combinations, and they
happen to fall at the beginning of a line (any line in my
experience), the system will bounce it back to you and suggest that
it looked like a command for the listproc system and you sent it to
the wrong address.  This basically means numerous combinations of
words can be potential headaches.  I personally find that is
severely limits my use of my vocabulary when dealing with messages
from this list.

As for the instructions on how to properly unsubscribe, they are
sent to you when you join the list and are posted on several
different websites.

-James

----- Original Message -----
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Sunday, November 04, 2001 3:45 PM
Subject: Re: unsubscribe


> James Young wrote:
> >
> >     I would rather they fixed the problem of bouncing commentaries
> > that happen to mesh with Listproc commands back to you when they are
> > mailed to the list.  It really limits some of my postings, because I
> > don't have time to continuously fix the commentary so all possible
> > listproc commands are circumvented.  The unsubscribe issue is easy
> > enough to filter, though I am sure none of us would cry if they
> > managed to get that fixed.
>
> Not entirely sure what the above paragraph is saying (never ran a
> listserv before :) but maybe it would help if a msg was attached to the
> bottom of msgs saying how you can unsubscribe? I've seen other lists do
> this, and although it doesn't solve all these unsubscribes being sent to
> the list itself, it would probably help.
>
> Craig J. Ries
>



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References: <2.2.32.20011104183657.01003b70@postoffice2.mail.cornell.edu> <000f01c16574$ea29bc60$ace979a5@oemcomputer> <3BE5B716.6C9F73D4@yifan.net> <000901c16585$29ac54a0$1385aec7@oemcomputer>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sun, 04 Nov 2001 16:12:34 -0700
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: unsubscribe
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

James Young wrote:
> 
> As for the instructions on how to properly unsubscribe, they are
> sent to you when you join the list and are posted on several
> different websites.

If said instructions are sent to you when you join the list (and I know
they are, I've still got my copy), people apparently aren't doing
something properly... most likely actually saving the msg and referring
to it when necessary.

In my experience, I've found that the last place somebody will bother to
look for info regarding the lists/newsgroups they're on is on a webpage.
At any rate, a sentence suggesting how/where to unsubscribe with each
post isn't a bad thing, imo. People might actually notice that.

Craig J. Ries



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From: Roy Enrile <renrile@qualcomm.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Feist on Tolkien
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From: Roy Enrile <renrile@qualcomm.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Feist on Tolkien
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

 
I picked "Meditations on Middle Earth" up last week and enjoyed reading
R.E.F.'s long essay on J.R.R Tolkien's influence of himself and the
industry.  It goes over things like LOTR's real value, the positives of
the series, the differences between that and Riftwar works, and who are
more favored authors/titles.

Here are some thoughts:

It's funny that in the writing, R.E.F. downplays the greatness of
Tolkien(must upset die hard fans who put J.R.R among the greatest
writers ever).  Yet the editor or publishers place Mr. Feists essay at the
front :) Maybe they just wanted to start off with their big gun.  In
contrast, alot of the other fantasy writers in the book and on the
internet write experiences that sounded like nerdy fanboy(girl) stuff that
we on the maillist might write.  For example, "I read the trilogy in three
days and didn't sleep", "My friends and I memorized the poems in LOTR" and
had games reciting them to each other".

R.E.F. goes over which authors and titles truly influenced him growing up,
and why these older fantasy novels with their good scene descriptions may
seem quaint to our "movie" generation.  It's interesting to see the lists
of his favorites.  And no, one book that I had read on the list was really
boring, but most weren't.

He thinks that the real influence of LOTR on him was not that the
books were so good, but that Midkemia got its fantasy flavor from there.
Plus, it created fans and a moneymaking genre where writers like him found
success.  

I think that second point was right on.  If LOTR wasn't so big with my
friends in elementary school, I might not have read it and seeked out
Authors like Feist, Donaldson, Eddings(or they may not have
become successfull in their careers back in the day). I may not have
branched off to try books a little different from sword and scorcery like
"Sleep till noon" or "Anubis Gates".  So count me in as a young person
that was inspired by Tolkien to read mainstream fantasy, and inspired by
Feist, to read more offbeat(now kind of underground) things.

Anyway, Meditations on Middle earth is a good read because Lord of
the Rings were the first books I really loved when I was a kid.  Plus
R.E.F. is my favorite for fun reading to get away from it all.

-Roy

P.S.

So which is better between LOTR, and the Riftwar series?  
... I'll take Feist because he writes the most entertaining adventures and
colorful/cool characters I've seen, even the minor ones (A lizard priest's
soul inhabiting the body of a growing shadow demon? :) ).  Plus his world
is more original as a grand opera/odyssey, than J.R.R's or other current
heavyweights (Jordan,Eddings).



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From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Cornell Server stuff (was RE: unsubscribe)
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 12:44:38 +0800
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*** EOOH ***
From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Cornell Server stuff (was RE: unsubscribe)
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 12:44:38 +0800
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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What word combinations? I've never seen this problem before, I must be
using a different vocabulary to that of yours. Either that or I've
gotten lucky and none of the stuff has been at the start of the line in
any of my posts.

CW

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu 
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of James Young
> Sent: Monday, 5 November 2001 7:05 AM
> To: FEISTFANS-L
> Subject: Re: unsubscribe
> 
> 
> Sometimes, if you type in certain world combinations, and they
> happen to fall at the beginning of a line (any line in my
> experience), the system will bounce it back to you and suggest that
> it looked like a command for the listproc system and you sent it to
> the wrong address.  This basically means numerous combinations of
> words can be potential headaches.  I personally find that is
> severely limits my use of my vocabulary when dealing with messages
> from this list.
> 
> As for the instructions on how to properly unsubscribe, they are
> sent to you when you join the list and are posted on several
> different websites.
> 
> -James
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
> To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> Sent: Sunday, November 04, 2001 3:45 PM
> Subject: Re: unsubscribe
> 
> 
> > James Young wrote:
> > >
> > >     I would rather they fixed the problem of bouncing
> commentaries
> > > that happen to mesh with Listproc commands back to you when they
> are
> > > mailed to the list.  It really limits some of my postings,
> because I
> > > don't have time to continuously fix the commentary so all
> possible
> > > listproc commands are circumvented.  The unsubscribe issue is
> easy
> > > enough to filter, though I am sure none of us would cry if they
> > > managed to get that fixed.
> >
> > Not entirely sure what the above paragraph is saying (never ran a
> > listserv before :) but maybe it would help if a msg was attached
> to the
> > bottom of msgs saying how you can unsubscribe? I've seen other
> lists do
> > this, and although it doesn't solve all these unsubscribes being
> sent to
> > the list itself, it would probably help.
> >
> > Craig J. Ries
> >
> 
> 



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From: Allan Mills <milla@css.com.au>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" (FEISTFANS-L) <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Cornell Server stuff (was RE: unsubscribe)
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 15:44:48 +1100 
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*** EOOH ***
From: Allan Mills <milla@css.com.au>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" (FEISTFANS-L) <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Cornell Server stuff (was RE: unsubscribe)
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 15:44:48 +1100 
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

 IIRC, if the first word on any line for a posting happens to be a list
server command it will send a rejection letter back to you saying that it
thinks you sent a listproc command to the wrong address. 

 I can count the number of times I've had this problem on one hand. It
requires sheer co-incidence.

 Allan

> -----Original Message-----
> From: David Pengelley [mailto:wolf@icenet.com.au]
> Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2001 3:45 PM
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Subject: Cornell Server stuff (was RE: unsubscribe)
> 
> 
> What word combinations? I've never seen this problem before, I must be
> using a different vocabulary to that of yours. Either that or I've
> gotten lucky and none of the stuff has been at the start of 
> the line in
> any of my posts.
> 
> CW
> 



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From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
References: <E3A4AA1DA7B41849A632450233B5423A177FB7@css01.css.com.au>
Subject: Re: Cornell Server stuff (was RE: unsubscribe)
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Cornell Server stuff (was RE: unsubscribe)
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 05:44:49 -0600
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

On the other hand I have to take off my socks to count up the number
of times it has happened to me.  Though I have figured out basically
which words trigger the effect so it hasn't happened recently.
Regardless it is an annoyance.

-James

> IIRC, if the first word on any line for a posting happens to be a list
> server command it will send a rejection letter back to you saying that it
> thinks you sent a listproc command to the wrong address.
>
>  I can count the number of times I've had this problem on one hand. It
> requires sheer co-incidence.
>
>  Allan
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: David Pengelley [mailto:wolf@icenet.com.au]
> > Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2001 3:45 PM
> > To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > Subject: Cornell Server stuff (was RE: unsubscribe)
> >
> >
> > What word combinations? I've never seen this problem before, I must be
> > using a different vocabulary to that of yours. Either that or I've
> > gotten lucky and none of the stuff has been at the start of
> > the line in
> > any of my posts.
> >
> > CW
> >
>



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From: "Donal K. Fellows" <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
In-reply-to: <000901c166b8$72017bc0$be92aec7@oemcomputer> (jajy@earthlink.net)
Subject: Re: Cornell Server stuff (was RE: unsubscribe)
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Donal K. Fellows" <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Cornell Server stuff (was RE: unsubscribe)
Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2001 13:06:39 +0000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

"James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
> On the other hand I have to take off my socks to count up the number
> of times it has happened to me.  Though I have figured out basically
> which words trigger the effect so it hasn't happened recently.
> Regardless it is an annoyance.

You will find it happens much less if you put your comments
*underneath* the paragraph(s) to which they are referring, like this
(well, until such time as listproc directives look like peoples' names
that is... <g>)

Donal.
-- 
Donal K. Fellows, Department of Computer Science, University of Manchester, UK.
(work) fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk     Tel: +44-161-275-6137  (preferred email addr.)
(home) donal@ugglan.demon.co.uk  Tel: +44-1274-401017   Mobile: +44-7957-298955
http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~fellowsd/  (Don't quote my .sig; I've seen it before!)



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From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
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References: <E3A4AA1DA7B41849A632450233B5423A177FB7@css01.css.com.au> <000901c166b8$72017bc0$be92aec7@oemcomputer> <E1615w7-0003rT-00@athene>
Subject: Re: Cornell Server stuff (was RE: unsubscribe)
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 08:36:04 -0600
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Cornell Server stuff (was RE: unsubscribe)
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 08:36:04 -0600
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I've had it happen just as often if I post
under the previous post as I do when I
post above.  The key problem seems
to be the placement of the word "PUT".
If it starts any line, the listproc seems to
disagree with my system.  But all in all I
suspect that is far more tolerable than
being randomly tossed off the list (which
hasn't happened to me since I switched
accounts).

-James

----- Original Message -----
> You will find it happens much less if you put your comments
> *underneath* the paragraph(s) to which they are referring, like this
> (well, until such time as listproc directives look like peoples' names
> that is... <g>)
>
> Donal.



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From: "K. Griffith" <delenn_of_mir@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Gods (OT)
Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2001 17:38:44 -0800
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*** EOOH ***
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From: "K. Griffith" <delenn_of_mir@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Gods (OT)
Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2001 17:38:44 -0800
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>From: "Theresa Roden" <lady_hoby@hotmail.com>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
>Subject: RE: Gods
>Date: Thu, 01 Nov 2001 14:57:25 -0600
>
>Has anyone read P.C. Hodgsell's (sp?) God Stalk?  There is an interesting
>bit in there about what happens to a god when his followers don't believe 
>in
>him anymore or when a priest decides to change things without divine
>authority.
>
>The whole novel is about one girl's search for the meaning behind her
>people's particular gods and what she goes through in the search.
>Interesting read in my opinion.
>
>Theresa


The book "Bull God" has an interesting take on the Greek gods, somewhat a 
mixture between the mythos and pure fantasy.

Kim Griffith


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp



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From: "Jay" <res0ibjw@verizon.net>
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Subject: What locklear did to get banished.
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 18:44:11 -0800
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Jay" <res0ibjw@verizon.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: What locklear did to get banished.
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 18:44:11 -0800
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Hi there, I'm not sure if this question has been asked recently or
not. I've been on and off the list for a while so I dont know for
sure.

In Krondor: The Betrayel... locklear was banished to Highcastle
because of some minor infraction he did in Krondor (The details might
be off here, I'm pretty sure it was in K;tB and I seem to remember it
being highcastle). It might have been published in the book, but I
dont remember, what did he do? I just finished reading Tear of the
Gods and I was disapointed that one of my favorite characters wasn't
in it.
Jay

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From: Kenneth Jones <killkenny@thos.co.za>
Subject: Re: What locklear did to get banished.
In-Reply-To: <002201c16736$1515a700$0200a8c0@jay>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2001 09:35:08 +0200
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Kenneth Jones <killkenny@thos.co.za>
Subject: Re: What locklear did to get banished.
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

IIRC he "courted" {:-) I powerful noble or merchant's daughter. And the 
prince was worried that he would want to kill him.



At 06:44 PM 11/6/01 -0800, you wrote:
>Hi there, I'm not sure if this question has been asked recently or not. 
>I've been on and off the list for a while so I dont know for sure.
>
>In Krondor: The Betrayel... locklear was banished to Highcastle because of 
>some minor infraction he did in Krondor (The details might be off here, 
>I'm pretty sure it was in K;tB and I seem to remember it being 
>highcastle). It might have been published in the book, but I dont 
>remember, what did he do? I just finished reading Tear of the Gods and I 
>was disapointed that one of my favorite characters wasn't in it.
>Jay

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Subject: Re: What locklear did to get banished.
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Stephen Forster" <sjforster@bigpond.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: What locklear did to get banished.
Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2001 19:32:58 +1000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

That is what I recall too.

Stephen.
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: Kenneth Jones 
>To: FEISTFANS-L 
>Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2001 5:35 PM
>Subject: Re: What locklear did to get banished.
>
>
>IIRC he "courted" {:-) I powerful noble or merchant's daughter. And
>the prince was worried that he would want to kill him.
>
>
>
>At 06:44 PM 11/6/01 -0800, you wrote:
>
>>Hi there, I'm not sure if this question has been asked recently or
>>not. I've been on and off the list for a while so I dont know for
>>sure.
>> 
>>In Krondor: The Betrayel... locklear was banished to Highcastle
>>because of some minor infraction he did in Krondor (The details
>>might be off here, I'm pretty sure it was in K;tB and I seem to
>>remember it being highcastle). It might have been published in the
>>book, but I dont remember, what did he do? I just finished reading
>>Tear of the Gods and I was disapointed that one of my favorite
>>characters wasn't in it.
>>Jay

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Subject: RE: What locklear did to get banished.
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2001 02:23:10 +0800
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*** EOOH ***
From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: What locklear did to get banished.
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2001 02:23:10 +0800
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

>So it was not to punish him but to protect him ? Odd.
>Syl

It was probly a bit of both. Protect him from wrath as he was to be
important for the Kingdom's future, but also teach him a lesson for
playng around in beds he shouldn't.

CW



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From: "Magnus Arvidsson" <magnus.arvidsson75@telia.com>
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References: <000201c167b9$4224e750$2100a8c0@pengelley.com>
Subject: Re: What locklear did to get banished.
Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2001 19:40:45 +0100
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Magnus Arvidsson" <magnus.arvidsson75@telia.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: What locklear did to get banished.
Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2001 19:40:45 +0100
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Ey Go Locklear! =)

> >So it was not to punish him but to protect him ? Odd.
> >Syl
>
> It was probly a bit of both. Protect him from wrath as he was to be
> important for the Kingdom's future, but also teach him a lesson for
> playng around in beds he shouldn't.
>
> CW
>



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From: "James Barker" <heechee@softhome.net>
To: feistfans-l@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: OT: Harry Potter movie
Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2001 00:30:58 +1100
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Barker" <heechee@softhome.net>
To: feistfans-l@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: OT: Harry Potter movie
Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2001 00:30:58 +1100
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Given that this list is basically dead, I'm gonna pose a very OT question.
Has anyone seen the new Harry Potter film, and if so, is it any good?

Cheers,
James
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dreaming of that face again; it's bright, and blue, and shimmering
Grinning wide, and wiping the webs and the dew from my withered eye...



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From: Larry Siegel <larry@psihawk.com>
Subject: Re: OT: Harry Potter movie
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2001 08:38:38 -0500
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Larry Siegel <larry@psihawk.com>
Subject: Re: OT: Harry Potter movie
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

At 12:30 AM 11/9/01 +1100, you wrote:
>Given that this list is basically dead, I'm gonna pose a very OT question.
>Has anyone seen the new Harry Potter film, and if so, is it any good?
>
>Cheers,
>James


James,

Not only is it OT... The movie comes out on 11/16/01 (In the US)
SO lets not discuss a movie that's not even released yet....
Let alone OT.

(Although I will add that they are attaching the SW: EP II trailer to the 
print)

Larry



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Subject: Re: OT: Harry Potter movie
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Selina Takerei" <buny@optushome.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT: Harry Potter movie
Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2001 00:58:35 +1100
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sorry to go on with an OT topic, but i cant help but wonder ? has it come
out in england as yet ?


----- Original Message -----
From: Larry Siegel <larry@psihawk.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Friday, November 09, 2001 12:38 AM
Subject: Re: OT: Harry Potter movie


> At 12:30 AM 11/9/01 +1100, you wrote:
> >Given that this list is basically dead, I'm gonna pose a very OT question.
> >Has anyone seen the new Harry Potter film, and if so, is it any good?
> >
> >Cheers,
> >James
>
>
> James,
>
> Not only is it OT... The movie comes out on 11/16/01 (In the US)
> SO lets not discuss a movie that's not even released yet....
> Let alone OT.
>
> (Although I will add that they are attaching the SW: EP II trailer to the
> print)
>
> Larry
>



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From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: OT: Harry Potter movie
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2001 14:01:52 +0000
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: OT: Harry Potter movie
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

At 08:38 AM 11/8/01 -0500, Larry Siegel wrote:
>At 12:30 AM 11/9/01 +1100, you wrote:
>>Given that this list is basically dead, I'm gonna pose a very OT question.
>>Has anyone seen the new Harry Potter film, and if so, is it any good?
>>
>>Cheers,
>>James
>
>
>James,
>
>Not only is it OT... The movie comes out on 11/16/01 (In the US)
>SO lets not discuss a movie that's not even released yet....
>Let alone OT.
>
>(Although I will add that they are attaching the SW: EP II trailer 
>to the print)

This is so OT that anybody discussing it should be taken out and
forced to sit through one of Snape's lectures.

But, since we are on the subject, I /tried/ to get tickets to an 
advance screening this weekend, but by the time we could track 
down a babysitter, the tickets were sold out.

*shrugs*

rip



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*** EOOH ***
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Subject: Re: OT: Harry Potter movie
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At 12:58 AM 11/9/01 +1100, Selina Takerei wrote:
>sorry to go on with an OT topic, but i cant help but wonder ? has it come
>out in england as yet ?

Official opening is 16 November (like the states).
There are theaters showing advance previews this weekend
(see my previous post)

rip



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Subject: Re: Harry Potter movie
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Jason Martin" <res0b95g@verizon.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Harry Potter movie
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2001 08:56:05 -0800
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----- Original Message -----
From: "James Barker" <heechee@softhome.net>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <feistfans-l@cornell.edu>
Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2001 5:30 AM
Subject: OT: Harry Potter movie


> Given that this list is basically dead, I'm gonna pose a very OT question.
> Has anyone seen the new Harry Potter film, and if so, is it any good?
>
> Cheers,
> James
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Dreaming of that face again; it's bright, and blue, and shimmering
> Grinning wide, and wiping the webs and the dew from my withered eye...
>
I have yet to see it, but planning on it when it does come out.  I know
there are some screenings going on for it, but not lucky enough to attend
one.  Anyhow from my understanding it will be released in the States and the
UK on November 16th.  From what I read it will be playing in a lot of
theatres!  I like the idea of it launching around the world at the same
time.  My prediction for the USA showings though it will make close to if
not over 100 Million opening weekend.  From what some of the reviews have
been its a good movie that they do not want to end.

Jason

"To stay awake all night adds a day to your life."
                       Stilgar- Children of Dune



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Subject: Re: Harry Potter movie
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2001 18:26:26 +0100
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From: "DPont" <d.pontolaeng@chello.nl>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Harry Potter movie
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2001 18:26:26 +0100
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I have to wait until November 22nd :(

Tot Dob!
Stefanie
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jason Martin" <res0b95g@verizon.net>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2001 5:56 PM
Subject: Re: Harry Potter movie


>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "James Barker" <heechee@softhome.net>
> To: "FEISTFANS-L" <feistfans-l@cornell.edu>
> Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2001 5:30 AM
> Subject: OT: Harry Potter movie
>
>
> > Given that this list is basically dead, I'm gonna pose a very OT question.
> > Has anyone seen the new Harry Potter film, and if so, is it any good?
> >
> > Cheers,
> > James
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Dreaming of that face again; it's bright, and blue, and shimmering
> > Grinning wide, and wiping the webs and the dew from my withered eye...
> >
> I have yet to see it, but planning on it when it does come out.  I know
> there are some screenings going on for it, but not lucky enough to attend
> one.  Anyhow from my understanding it will be released in the States and the
> UK on November 16th.  From what I read it will be playing in a lot of
> theatres!  I like the idea of it launching around the world at the same
> time.  My prediction for the USA showings though it will make close to if
> not over 100 Million opening weekend.  From what some of the reviews have
> been its a good movie that they do not want to end.
>
> Jason
>
> "To stay awake all night adds a day to your life."
>                        Stilgar- Children of Dune
>



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From: "Cameron Duncan" <cduncan@amadeus.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Harry Potter movie
Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2001 03:31:45 +1000
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From: "Cameron Duncan" <cduncan@amadeus.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Harry Potter movie
Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2001 03:31:45 +1000
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yep, and here in Australia, we have to wait until November 29.

Cameron

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of DPont
> Sent: Friday, November 09, 2001 3:26
> To: FEISTFANS-L
> Subject: Re: Harry Potter movie
>
>
> I have to wait until November 22nd :(
>
> Tot Dob!
> Stefanie
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jason Martin" <res0b95g@verizon.net>
> To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2001 5:56 PM
> Subject: Re: Harry Potter movie
>
>
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "James Barker" <heechee@softhome.net>
> > To: "FEISTFANS-L" <feistfans-l@cornell.edu>
> > Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2001 5:30 AM
> > Subject: OT: Harry Potter movie
> >
> >
> > > Given that this list is basically dead, I'm gonna pose a very OT
> question.
> > > Has anyone seen the new Harry Potter film, and if so, is it any good?
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > > James
> >
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > Dreaming of that face again; it's bright, and blue, and shimmering
> > > Grinning wide, and wiping the webs and the dew from my withered eye...
> > >
> > I have yet to see it, but planning on it when it does come out.  I know
> > there are some screenings going on for it, but not lucky enough
> to attend
> > one.  Anyhow from my understanding it will be released in the States and
> the
> > UK on November 16th.  From what I read it will be playing in a lot of
> > theatres!  I like the idea of it launching around the world at the same
> > time.  My prediction for the USA showings though it will make
> close to if
> > not over 100 Million opening weekend.  From what some of the
> reviews have
> > been its a good movie that they do not want to end.
> >
> > Jason
> >
> > "To stay awake all night adds a day to your life."
> >                        Stilgar- Children of Dune
> >
>
>



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2001 12:38:56 -0700
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT: Harry Potter movie
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Richard Williamson wrote:
> 
> This is so OT that anybody discussing it should be taken out and
> forced to sit through one of Snape's lectures.

I really am given to wonder about this lot at times, where a lengthy
thread spanning several days about programming isn't pointed out for
being off topic, but as soon as another thread, atleast regarding
fantasy, sprouts up, everybody's got their pointing fingers ready.

Craig J. Ries



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Subject: Re: OT: Harry Potter movie
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2001 12:35:57 -0800
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Jason Martin" <res0b95g@verizon.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT: Harry Potter movie
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2001 12:35:57 -0800
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2001 11:38 AM
Subject: Re: OT: Harry Potter movie


> Richard Williamson wrote:
> >
> > This is so OT that anybody discussing it should be taken out and
> > forced to sit through one of Snape's lectures.
>
> I really am given to wonder about this lot at times, where a lengthy
> thread spanning several days about programming isn't pointed out for
> being off topic, but as soon as another thread, atleast regarding
> fantasy, sprouts up, everybody's got their pointing fingers ready.
>
> Craig J. Ries
>
Craig-
    I think you missed the point.  Rip was just kind of making light of it.
Trust me if Rip wanted to let someone know it was off Topic he would do so.
I think was being rather Sarcastic with his reply and I don't believe he was
saying don't talk about it..  The fact that he mentioned Snape in his reply
just shows he was going with it..  By the way I think Alan Rickman as Snape
is perfect!

Later,

Jason



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Subject: Re: OT: Harry Potter movie
References: <000701c16859$a6c83040$f3911dcb@heechee> <5.1.0.14.2.20011108135946.00eccb40@mail.swindon.wrsec.fr> <3BEADF50.224A4B9@yifan.net> <000901c16894$f96cf340$65313c04@vz.dsl.genuity.net>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2001 13:42:12 -0700
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT: Harry Potter movie
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Jason Martin wrote:
> 
> Craig-
>     I think you missed the point.  Rip was just kind of making light of it.
> Trust me if Rip wanted to let someone know it was off Topic he would do so.
> I think was being rather Sarcastic with his reply and I don't believe he was
> saying don't talk about it..

Ahh, well, sarcasm can be difficult to relay in a text-only format at
times :)

> The fact that he mentioned Snape in his reply
> just shows he was going with it..  By the way I think Alan Rickman as Snape
> is perfect!

As much as I'd like to watch the movie (the genre is really short on
good movies), I've not yet read the books, and until I get a good job
that pays some bills rather quickly, I won't be getting the books :P

However, the movie has the bloody Episode II teaser trailer, and my
fiance is a huge Star Wars fan. *sigh* Curse Lucas! Monsters Inc. was
still good though (I wanted to see it, regardless of the Ep I teaser :).

Craig J. Ries, who awaits the Willow DVD & LotR :)



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Subject: Re: Unsubscribe DOH
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Magnus Arvidsson" <magnus.arvidsson75@telia.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Unsubscribe DOH
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2001 21:55:33 +0100
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Man I just wish some people LEARN how to
unsubscribe.... geeezh


----- Original Message -----
From: "Hanja Veijer" <Hanja_veijer@zonnet.nl>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2001 10:42 PM
Subject: Unsubscribe


>



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Subject: Re: OT: Harry Potter movie
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2001 13:11:07 -0800
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Andrew Scott" <a.sc0tt@home.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT: Harry Potter movie
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2001 13:11:07 -0800
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2001 12:42 PM
Subject: Re: OT: Harry Potter movie

> As much as I'd like to watch the movie (the genre is really short on
> good movies), I've not yet read the books, and until I get a good job
> that pays some bills rather quickly, I won't be getting the books :P
>
Thats why there are libraries, i read all 4 books last week and really liked
em.

> However, the movie has the bloody Episode II teaser trailer, and my
> fiance is a huge Star Wars fan. *sigh* Curse Lucas! Monsters Inc. was
> still good though (I wanted to see it, regardless of the Ep I teaser :).
>
> Craig J. Ries, who awaits the Willow DVD & LotR :)
>
if you feel like installing quicktime you can see the Star Wars trailer at
http://www.apple.com/trailers/



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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Larry Siegel <larry@psihawk.com>
Subject: Re: OT: Harry Potter movie
In-Reply-To: <005701c16899$e2568310$8ee00b18@cc190114a>
References: <000701c16859$a6c83040$f3911dcb@heechee>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20011108135946.00eccb40@mail.swindon.wrsec.fr>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2001 16:13:59 -0500
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Larry Siegel <larry@psihawk.com>
Subject: Re: OT: Harry Potter movie
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


>if you feel like installing quicktime you can see the Star Wars trailer at
>http://www.apple.com/trailers/


Thats Just a teaser trailer from Monster's Inc.....
They are attaching the full trailer to Harry Potter...




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Subject: Re: OT: Harry Potter movie
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2001 15:57:45 -0600
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT: Harry Potter movie
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2001 15:57:45 -0600
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I thought we banned star wars talk after Episode 1 came out and
everything went ballistic on the list.  Ray had to even come on and
tell people to drop it.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry Siegel" <larry@psihawk.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2001 3:13 PM
Subject: Re: OT: Harry Potter movie


>
> >if you feel like installing quicktime you can see the Star Wars trailer at
> >http://www.apple.com/trailers/
>
>
> Thats Just a teaser trailer from Monster's Inc.....
> They are attaching the full trailer to Harry Potter...
>
>



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References: <000701c16859$a6c83040$f3911dcb@heechee> <5.1.0.14.2.20011108135946.00eccb40@mail.swindon.wrsec.fr> <3BEADF50.224A4B9@yifan.net> <000901c16894$f96cf340$65313c04@vz.dsl.genuity.net> <3BEAEE24.3BEEC462@yifan.net> <5.1.0.14.0.20011108161310.00a52590@mail.optonline.net> <004b01c168a0$6747cf60$42e179a5@oemcomputer>
Subject: Re: OT: Hairy Plotter movie IS EEEK
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2001 23:14:28 +0100
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Magnus Arvidsson" <magnus.arvidsson75@telia.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT: Hairy Plotter movie IS EEEK
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2001 23:14:28 +0100
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I love reading about Hairy Plotter and this movie of his.
or maybe not? Can someone see the well disguised
and heavy sarcasm here?

> I thought we banned star wars talk after Episode 1 came out and
> everything went ballistic on the list.  Ray had to even come on and
> tell people to drop it.
>
>
>
> >
> > >if you feel like installing quicktime you can see the Star Wars
> trailer at
> > >http://www.apple.com/trailers/
> >
> >
> > Thats Just a teaser trailer from Monster's Inc.....
> > They are attaching the full trailer to Harry Potter...
> >
> >
>



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From: "Jason Mulligan" <sulimo@bigpond.net.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT: Harry Potter movie
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 09 Nov 2001 09:27:08 +1100
From: "Jason Mulligan" <sulimo@bigpond.net.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT: Harry Potter movie
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On 8/11/2001 at 16:13 PM Larry Siegel wrote:

>>if you feel like installing quicktime you can see the Star Wars trailer
>at
>>http://www.apple.com/trailers/
>
>
>Thats Just a teaser trailer from Monster's Inc.....
>They are attaching the full trailer to Harry Potter...

And even that isnt the full trailer, its the teaser. The one with Monsters Inc was 
a teaser-teaser. The full trailer wont be out till April apparently.

And there will be a third teaser available on the 9th on the net via the DVD of Episode 1 (and not 
elsewhere). At least until someone mirrors it.




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Subject: Re: OT: Harry Potter movie
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 <5.1.0.14.2.20011108135946.00eccb40@mail.swindon.wrsec.fr>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2001 23:32:21 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Martin Andersen <fan2met@online.no>
Subject: Re: OT: Harry Potter movie
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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>Craig J. Ries, who awaits the Willow DVD & LotR :)

I bought myself a ticket to the LotR-première on monday :D
That's when they began selling tickets to the première in Norway. :)

Martin Andersen
--------------------------
"These are not books, lumps of lifeless paper, but minds alive on the 
shelves." --Gilbert Highet



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 09 Nov 2001 09:49:20 +1100
From: "Jason Mulligan" <sulimo@bigpond.net.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT: Harry Potter movie
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On 8/11/2001 at 23:32 PM Martin Andersen wrote:

>>Craig J. Ries, who awaits the Willow DVD & LotR :)
>
>I bought myself a ticket to the LotR-première on monday :D
>That's when they began selling tickets to the première in Norway. :)

Speaking of Fellowship of the Ring, the whole soundtrack is now 
online. And is pretty amazing. The URL is:

http://stream.qtv.apple.com/events/nov/lordrings/lordrings_ref.mov






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Subject: Re: OT: Harry Potter movie
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*** EOOH ***
From: Myecho32@aol.com
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2001 21:29:02 EST
Subject: Re: OT: Harry Potter movie
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Premier tickets to LOTR!   I hope they keep it true to the movie. Hey, how 
cool would it be if they made Apprentice into a movie!  Any word on Feist 
doing a movie?

Wizard

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From: Allan Mills <milla@css.com.au>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" (FEISTFANS-L) <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: OT: Harry Potter movie
Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2001 13:37:09 +1100 
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*** EOOH ***
From: Allan Mills <milla@css.com.au>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" (FEISTFANS-L) <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: OT: Harry Potter movie
Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2001 13:37:09 +1100 
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 Keep what true to the movie ? Don't you mean true to the book ?
 
 Ray does not make movies but if anyone comes along with enough money he
will sell the rights so that a movie can be made. Last I heard nobody was
going to do a Magician movie.
 
 Allan

-----Original Message-----
>From: Myecho32@aol.com [mailto:Myecho32@aol.com]
>Sent: Friday, November 09, 2001 1:29 PM
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: Re: OT: Harry Potter movie
>
>
>Premier tickets to LOTR!   I hope they keep it true to the movie. Hey, how
>cool would it be if they made Apprentice into a movie!  Any word on Feist
>doing a movie? 
>
>Wizard 

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From: RBlackley@aol.com
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2001 21:47:41 EST
Subject: Re: feist movie
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yeah that would be cool

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Subject: Re: OT: Harry Potter movie
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*** EOOH ***
From: Myecho32@aol.com
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2001 22:13:00 EST
Subject: Re: OT: Harry Potter movie
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Oops, yeah... I meant true to the book  :)

That's too bad... I hope he doesn't sell the rights because unless he is 
involved in the movie I can not imagine it will be any good. 

wizard

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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 09 Nov 2001 15:14:40 +1100
From: "Jason Mulligan" <sulimo@bigpond.net.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On 9/11/2001 at 13:37 PM Allan Mills wrote:

>Keep what true to the movie ? Don't you mean true to the book ?
> 
> Ray does not make movies but if anyone comes along with enough money he
>will sell the rights so that a movie can be made. Last I heard nobody was
>going to do a Magician movie.

Lets hope the success of Harry Potter and Lord of the Rings inspires some people 
to try their hand at Magician.






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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 09 Nov 2001 15:15:56 +1100
From: "Jason Mulligan" <sulimo@bigpond.net.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On 8/11/2001 at 22:13 PM Myecho32@aol.com wrote:

>Oops, yeah... I meant true to the book  :)
>
>That's too bad... I hope he doesn't sell the rights because unless he is 
>involved in the movie I can not imagine it will be any good. 

Well, Ray has said numerous times he's not interested in participating in 
any film/tv project.





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Subject: RE: OT: Harry Potter movie
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*** EOOH ***
From: Allan Mills <milla@css.com.au>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" (FEISTFANS-L) <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: OT: Harry Potter movie
Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2001 15:31:40 +1100 
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jason Mulligan [mailto:sulimo@bigpond.net.au]
> Sent: Friday, November 09, 2001 3:16 PM
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Subject: Re: OT: Harry Potter movie
> 
> 
> On 8/11/2001 at 22:13 PM Myecho32@aol.com wrote:
> 
> >Oops, yeah... I meant true to the book  :)
> >
> >That's too bad... I hope he doesn't sell the rights because 
> unless he is 
> >involved in the movie I can not imagine it will be any good. 
> 
> Well, Ray has said numerous times he's not interested in 
> participating in 
> any film/tv project.
> 
> 
> 

 I'm not sure if he Ray won't participate or won't initiate. He doesn't plan
on going into movie or tv show making but if they pay him to be a
consultant....

 Allan



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2001 20:43:58 -0800
Subject: Re: OT: Harry Potter movie
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Thursday, November 8, 2001, at 07:13 PM, Myecho32@aol.com wrote:

> Oops, yeah... I meant true to the book  :)
>
> That's too bad... I hope he doesn't sell the rights because unless he 
> is involved in the movie I can not imagine it will be any good.
>
> wizard
>
>
>

OK, let me repeat myself, because obviously we get new people to the 
list as time goes by.

I do not make movies.

There is no reason to assume that someone would make a "bad" film out of 
one of my books because I'm not involved in the project.

There is a very strange notion among fans that somehow a writer knows 
how to translate a book to film.  For those who are operating under such 
delusion, I suggest you go rent Maximum Overdrive and you'll get some 
idea of how good Steve King was as a film maker.  The very best 
translation of his work to the screen were done by other people 
(Shawshank Redemption, Green Mile, Stand By Me, etc.).

The only writers I can name who do well at both are Michael Crighton 
(so-so to very good) and William Goldman (very good to outstanding).  
Otherwise, aren't a lot of novelist who know what the hell to do with a 
camera.

So, can we stop the "I hope he doesn't sell rights . . ." nonsense.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.

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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2001 20:45:39 -0800
Subject: Re: OT: Harry Potter movie
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On Thursday, November 8, 2001, at 08:31 PM, Allan Mills wrote:

>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Jason Mulligan [mailto:sulimo@bigpond.net.au]
>> Sent: Friday, November 09, 2001 3:16 PM
>> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>> Subject: Re: OT: Harry Potter movie
>>
>>
>> On 8/11/2001 at 22:13 PM Myecho32@aol.com wrote:
>>
>>> Oops, yeah... I meant true to the book  :)
>>>
>>> That's too bad... I hope he doesn't sell the rights because
>> unless he is
>>> involved in the movie I can not imagine it will be any good.
>>
>> Well, Ray has said numerous times he's not interested in
>> participating in
>> any film/tv project.
>>
>>
>>
>
>  I'm not sure if he Ray won't participate or won't initiate. He doesn't 
> plan
> on going into movie or tv show making but if they pay him to be a
> consultant....
>

I won't "initiate" because 1) I don't own a studio or major production 
company 2) that's not how the business works.

And I won't participate because I'm not a film maker.

If someone wants to give me lots of money and make a film, great.  I 
hope it's a great film, but if it's a terrible film it won't change one 
word on one page of the book.  And the check would be welcome.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" (FEISTFANS-L) <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: OT: Harry Potter movie
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*** EOOH ***
From: Allan Mills <milla@css.com.au>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" (FEISTFANS-L) <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: OT: Harry Potter movie
Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2001 15:51:55 +1100 
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: Raymond Feist [mailto:raymond@bittersea.com]
> Sent: Friday, November 09, 2001 3:46 PM
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Subject: Re: OT: Harry Potter movie
> 

> 
> I won't "initiate" because 1) I don't own a studio or major 
> production 
> company 2) that's not how the business works.
> 
> And I won't participate because I'm not a film maker.
> 
> If someone wants to give me lots of money and make a film, great.  I 
> hope it's a great film, but if it's a terrible film it won't 
> change one 
> word on one page of the book.  And the check would be welcome.
> 
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
> 
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be 
> explained away by 
> stupidity.
> 

 I meant more as a consultant in the way of authenticity. ie. making sure
they don't give the kingdom a musketeer brigade or have the soldiers ride
around in chariots.

 Allan



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Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2001 00:55:05 EST
Subject: Re: OT: Harry Potter movie
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*** EOOH ***
From: Myecho32@aol.com
Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2001 00:55:05 EST
Subject: Re: OT: Harry Potter movie
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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eek sorry! you are correct I am new and was not aware this was a tired 
subject. There have been good renditions of books to movies but not many. 

I think most of the time when people grow attached to books it is because it 
comes around at the right time in their lives. In my situation as much as I 
love the books I wonder if I would have been so enraptured if my father had 
not passed away. I am sure I would still love the books but I question if it 
would mean so much to me.

So while the comment seemed like nonsense it wasn't meant to upset anyone or 
seem fanatical, simply that I find the books magical and don't want the 
stories ruined.

wizard

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Subject: RE: OT: Harry Potter movie
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*** EOOH ***
From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: OT: Harry Potter movie
Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2001 16:24:00 +0800
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu 
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Allan Mills
> Sent: Friday, 9 November 2001 12:52 PM
> To: 'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu' (FEISTFANS-L)
> Subject: RE: OT: Harry Potter movie
> 
> 

<snip>

> 
>  I meant more as a consultant in the way of authenticity. ie. 
> making sure
> they don't give the kingdom a musketeer brigade or have the 
> soldiers ride
> around in chariots.
> 
>  Allan

And make sure Pug has a beard (unlike BaK) for example

CW



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 09 Nov 2001 10:28:57 +0200
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Kenneth Jones <killkenny@thos.co.za>
Subject: RE: OT: Harry Potter movie
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At 04:24 PM 11/9/01 +0800, you wrote:
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Allan Mills
> > Sent: Friday, 9 November 2001 12:52 PM
> > To: 'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu' (FEISTFANS-L)
> > Subject: RE: OT: Harry Potter movie
> >
> >
>
><snip>
>
> >
> >  I meant more as a consultant in the way of authenticity. ie.
> > making sure
> > they don't give the kingdom a musketeer brigade or have the
> > soldiers ride
> > around in chariots.
> >
> >  Allan
>
>And make sure Pug has a beard (unlike BaK) for example

Dark hair would also have been nice {:-)

>CW



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Subject: Re: feist movie (and Dune)
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri,  9 Nov 2001 14:06:12 +0200
Subject: Re: feist movie (and Dune)
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> yeah that would be cool 
Not necessarly a movie.

For example, the Dune mini-serie was really great, so much closer from
the book than the movie. Really, I loved the mini-serie, I felt like I
was reading the book again. I'd like it if they had done also "Dune
Messiah" ... and why not "Children of Dune"...

I believe it would be totally impossible to do it of "God Emperor of
Dune", but the last two novels "Heretics of Dune" and "Chapterhouse :
Dune" would have done (specially Heretics) a really *great* S.F
movie/serie.

Syl

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Subject: Re: OT: Movie stuff.
Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2001 07:09:59 -0600
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT: Movie stuff.
Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2001 07:09:59 -0600
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    They didn't I can tell you that right now since they have Arwen
playing Glorfindel's part.
    Now, put the Feist movie talk to rest until Ray decides (for
whatever reason) that he want's to bring it up.  Everytime we start
talking about it, it becomes a flamewar.  Same goes with the
mini-series.

----- Original Message -----
> Premier tickets to LOTR!   I hope they keep it true to the movie. Hey, how
> cool would it be if they made Apprentice into a movie!  Any word on Feist
> doing a movie?
>
> Wizard
>



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Are some people just doing this as a joke now, or what?

Al

At 10:43 09/11/2001 -0400, you wrote:
>unsubscribe FEISTFANS-L



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Subject: Re: feist movie (and Dune)
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From: "Eric J. Gelatt" <eidelon@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: feist movie (and Dune)
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What I think would be really cool would be if someone did a completely
different story but based in Midkemia. A series like Band of Brothers
based in Midkemia would be very very interesting to watch. IMHO.


I'm hoping like crazy that LOTR is very successful financially, not
because it's LOTR, but only because it's a fantasy film. If LOTR can show
Hollyweird that fantasy films can be lucrative, then they might try to
make a few more big budget fantasy films. And, hey, maybe open up another
business opportunity for Ray. :)


Later,

Eric



At 02:06 PM 11/9/2001 +0200, you wrote: 
>> yeah that would be cool
>
>  Not necessarly a movie.  For example, the Dune mini-serie
>was really great, so much closer from the book than the movie. Really, I
>loved the mini-serie, I felt like I was reading the book again. I'd like
>it if they had done also "Dune Messiah" ... and why not "Children of
>Dune"...  I believe it would be totally impossible to do it of "God
>Emperor of Dune", but the last two novels "Heretics of Dune" and
>"Chapterhouse : Dune" would have done (specially Heretics) a really
>*great*  S.F movie/serie.  Syl

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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 09 Nov 2001 13:00:49 -0700
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: feist movie (and Dune)
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Sylvain Guehl wrote:
> 
> For example, the Dune mini-serie was really great, so much closer from
> the book than the movie. Really, I loved the mini-serie, I felt like I
> was reading the book again. I'd like it if they had done also "Dune
> Messiah" ... and why not "Children of Dune"...

A little FYI: as far as I know, Sci-Fi Channel is pushing ahead and
wants to do the next book(s?) for another mini-series.

The great thing about a mini-series is that it can be 4, or 8, or even
10 hours, and you don't have to drop all the little things that usually
make a great book great.
Of course, whether it's a move or a mini-series, it still has be good
(unfortunately, I wonder how many movies made out of books are either
good, or even if they are good, how truthful they were to the original
work).

Craig J. Ries



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To unsubscribe, DO NOT send the mail to FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu, the
correct address to send your unsubscription notice is

listproc@cornell.edu
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And include one of the following in the body of the message

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Hopefully not too many people will want to make any use of this e-mail.

CW



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Subject: Re: feist movie (and Dune)
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Jason Martin" <res0b95g@verizon.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: feist movie (and Dune)
Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2001 09:45:24 -0800
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Syl-
Check out us.imdb.com and look under the director of the Dune
Miniseries.  If you look under the director (John Harrison) link:
http://us.imdb.com/Name?Harrison,+John+(I)
you will see he is working on the "Children of Dune" mini series that
is actually Dune Messiah and Children of Dune combined from  what I
have read.  As for his version of Dune the mini series wasn't bad.  I
don't like how he expanded Princess Irulan's role and made Paul a
whiner (ala Luke Skywalker).  Also some of the sequencing was out of
order which bothered me since I thought they were fairly important
scenes.  Acting wasn't to bad, but hard pressed from the Lynch's cast
which I thought was excellent.
    Anyhow overall the series wasn't bad, I just wished for once a
director will just not change a thing and put his mark on it, and just
folllow what the book is and try not to expand it.

Jason


"To much knowledge never makes for simple decisions."
                           Ghanima- Children of Dune
>  ----- Original Message ----- 
>  From: Sylvain Guehl 
>  To: FEISTFANS-L 
>  Sent: Friday, November 09, 2001 4:06 AM
>  Subject: Re: feist movie (and Dune)
>
>
>  > yeah that would be cool 
>
>  Not necessarly a movie.
>
>  For example, the Dune mini-serie was really great, so much closer from the book than the movie. Really, I loved the mini-serie, I felt like I was reading the book again. I'd like it if they had done also "Dune Messiah" ... and why not "Children of Dune"...
>
>  I believe it would be totally impossible to do it of "God Emperor of Dune", but the last two novels "Heretics of Dune" and "Chapterhouse : Dune" would have done (specially Heretics) a really *great*  S.F movie/serie.
>
>  Syl

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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 09 Nov 2001 13:03:23 -0700
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT: Movie stuff.
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James Young wrote:
> 
>     They didn't I can tell you that right now since they have Arwen
> playing Glorfindel's part.

Now, it's been 5-6 years since I've read Lord of the Rings (I plan to
reread them soon), I don't really believe you can say that if one
character has changed, the whole movie isn't true to the books.

You've got people like Ian McKellen, who KNEW Tolkien, who believe that
these movies are true to the books.

It's downright impossible to get things perfect: a book is an artist's
vision of what a world is like. A movie is the same thing: a vision, but
nobody but Tolkien himself can true envision what his world is like.
This is, in effect, an interpretation of Middle-Earth.

Craig J. Ries



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From: "Theresa Roden" <lady_hoby@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re: OT: Harry Potter movie
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Subject: Re: OT: Harry Potter movie
Date: Fri, 09 Nov 2001 09:16:22 -0600
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According to news reposrts here in the Midwest (U.S.), the only place to see 
the new Star Wars Trailer is to go to Disney's "Monsters, Inc."

Theresa

>James,
>
>Not only is it OT... The movie comes out on 11/16/01 (In the US)
>SO lets not discuss a movie that's not even released yet....
>Let alone OT.
>
>(Although I will add that they are attaching the SW: EP II trailer to the
>print)
>
>Larry
>


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp



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Subject: Re: OT: Movie stuff.
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT: Movie stuff.
Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2001 17:32:55 -0600
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    Where they have changed things has been notable and given those
changes it looks to be seriously changing the theme of the movie in
order to place the "love story" in it as the prime drive (or alt
least a serious driving factor) as opposed to an unspoken (though
visible) issue as it is in the books (i.e. backstory until the end
of the series).
    And knowing a person doesn't mean you understood their vision,
it helps but it doesn't mean you have any additional credentials to
mess with their work.  Just because some one knew C.S. Lewis doesn't
mean they have license to claim their work is true to the books
anymore than Ian has claim with Tolkien.
    Now I am completely finished with this and given what I have
seen I hope the movie bombs.  If you want me to further point out
flaws from the book your are going to have to wait.  I am not
responding to this on-list again.

-James


----- Original Message -----
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Friday, November 09, 2001 2:03 PM
Subject: Re: OT: Movie stuff.


> James Young wrote:
> >
> >     They didn't I can tell you that right now since they have Arwen
> > playing Glorfindel's part.
>
> Now, it's been 5-6 years since I've read Lord of the Rings (I plan to
> reread them soon), I don't really believe you can say that if one
> character has changed, the whole movie isn't true to the books.
>
> You've got people like Ian McKellen, who KNEW Tolkien, who believe that
> these movies are true to the books.
>
> It's downright impossible to get things perfect: a book is an artist's
> vision of what a world is like. A movie is the same thing: a vision, but
> nobody but Tolkien himself can true envision what his world is like.
> This is, in effect, an interpretation of Middle-Earth.
>
> Craig J. Ries
>



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 09 Nov 2001 17:16:58 -0700
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT: Movie stuff.
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James Young wrote:
> 
>     Now I am completely finished with this and given what I have
> seen I hope the movie bombs.  If you want me to further point out
> flaws from the book your are going to have to wait.  I am not
> responding to this on-list again.

Well, now I feel insulted that you feel that your opinion is sooooo much
higher than mine of the situation.

Great, don't see the movie. But if this movie bombs, I don't think you
should expect another fantasy movie for a LONG time.

As for the movies themselves, I will actually SEE them, THEN serve
judgement upon them, instead of before the movie, as is your way of
doing things.

And btw, I don't want to hear any more of your flaws, because it doesn't
seem to matter what the movie is doing right, only what it is doing
wrong. Not a fair judgement either.

Craig J. Ries



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Date: Fri, 09 Nov 2001 17:23:00 -0700
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT: Harry Potter movie
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Theresa Roden wrote:
> 
> According to news reposrts here in the Midwest (U.S.), the only place to see
> the new Star Wars Trailer is to go to Disney's "Monsters, Inc."

That was a 30 second teaser trailer.

There will be a 2 minute teaser trailer on the prints of Harry Potter
(and I certainly wouldn't be surprised if Lucas has something in store
for Lord of the Rings as well... nothing like publicity ONLY on the most
viable movies of the last 3 months of the year).

Then there's that trailer that you have to own the DVD to see (god what
a pathetic PR move imo).

The Star Wars website has said that there will be more teaser trailers
(so don't be surprised if you hear about one being on LotR yet :P).

Craig J. Ries



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2001 12:09:12 +1100
From: "Jason Mulligan" <sulimo@bigpond.net.au>
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On 9/11/2001 at 17:23 PM Craig J. Ries wrote:

>Then there's that trailer that you have to own the DVD to see (god what
>a pathetic PR move imo).

Yeah, I guess. Although it's nice to see Lucas give us DVD owners
something extra and exclusive.

It is a nice trailer too. It would be nice to be able to save it to
disc though so I could rewatch it without using that dopey InterActual
player though, which is buggy and crashes all the time.




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Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2001 18:23:22 +0000
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: John <john@crydee.com>
Subject: Murder in LaMut
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Hi Ray, just got this in an email, comments please


Big fan from South Africa, Murder in Lamut has been released here (book 
2
in the Riftwar saga)
-- 
John

john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.

Raymond E Feist Ring
http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm



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Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2001 19:36:57 -0800
Subject: Re: Murder in LaMut
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Friday, November 9, 2001, at 10:23 AM, John wrote:

> Hi Ray, just got this in an email, comments please
>
>
> Big fan from South Africa, Murder in Lamut has been released here 
> (book 2
> in the Riftwar saga)
> -- John
>
> john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
> http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.
>
> Raymond E Feist Ring
> http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm
>
>
>
>

Hardly.  Joel and I are working on the final rewrite.

Best,R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Subject: Re: OT: Movie stuff.
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 <00b501c1691f$d8f93d40$42e179a5@oemcomputer>
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Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2001 18:39:55 +1100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Alex Loke <nerf@alphalink.com.au>
Subject: Re: OT: Movie stuff.
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At 01:03 PM 9/11/2001 -0700, you wrote:
>It's downright impossible to get things perfect: a book is an artist's
>vision of what a world is like. A movie is the same thing: a vision, but
>nobody but Tolkien himself can true envision what his world is like.
>This is, in effect, an interpretation of Middle-Earth.

This I agree with. Two different mediums. I'm happy with what Peter Jackson
said about there being 'differences' due to the fact that this is
essentially an 'adaptation' of the books. If it's a good movie, I'll be
happy since no matter what, it will conflict with my vision of what
Tolkien's world is like.

Regards,

Alex Loke



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 <3154245F-D58C-11D5-94AB-003065A8A644@bittersea.com>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2001 07:50:34 +0000
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: John <john@crydee.com>
Subject: Re: Murder in LaMut
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Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com> writes
>
>On Friday, November 9, 2001, at 10:23 AM, John wrote:
>
>> Hi Ray, just got this in an email, comments please
>>
>>
>> Big fan from South Africa, Murder in Lamut has been released here 
>>(book 2
>> in the Riftwar saga)
>Hardly.  Joel and I are working on the final rewrite.
>
>Best,R.E.F.

I thought so. I will email him and as if he can send me a copy, it will 
save you a lot of hard work <G>
-- 
John

john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.

Raymond E Feist Ring
http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm



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Subject: Re: Magician movie
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From: "Kevykev" <kevykev@sbcglobal.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Magician movie
Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2001 07:10:28 -0800
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I've always thought fantasy movies are really bad quality. The best last
movie was Conan which isn't much:(
Still I think Magician and the whole Riftwar made into movies would be
great. I've thought so since I first read Magician in '93.Ray's just great
using words to create a mental image:)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jason Mulligan" <sulimo@bigpond.net.au>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2001 8:14 PM
Subject: RE: OT: Harry Potter movie


> On 9/11/2001 at 13:37 PM Allan Mills wrote:
>
> >Keep what true to the movie ? Don't you mean true to the book ?
> >
> > Ray does not make movies but if anyone comes along with enough money he
> >will sell the rights so that a movie can be made. Last I heard nobody was
> >going to do a Magician movie.
>
> Lets hope the success of Harry Potter and Lord of the Rings inspires some people
> to try their hand at Magician.
>
>
>
>



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>> 
>>     Now I am completely finished with this and given what I have
>> seen I hope the movie bombs.  If you want me to further point out
>> flaws from the book your are going to have to wait.  I am not
>> responding to this on-list again.
>
>Well, now I feel insulted that you feel that your opinion is sooooo much
>higher than mine of the situation.
>
>Great, don't see the movie. But if this movie bombs, I don't think you
>should expect another fantasy movie for a LONG time.
>
>As for the movies themselves, I will actually SEE them, THEN serve
>judgement upon them, instead of before the movie, as is your way of
>doing things.
>
>And btw, I don't want to hear any more of your flaws, because it doesn't
>seem to matter what the movie is doing right, only what it is doing
>wrong. Not a fair judgement either.
>

Here I agree with you.

Myself I do not expect a 100% perfect movie, since I don't think a 400
pages book can be well rendered in a 160 minutes or so movie. I expect
a good entertaining movie that will at least follow as closely as
possible the storyline.

However, I expect to see people looking at every little scenes and
claim "this is not like that in the book!!". I hope this won't happen
too much, and like you Craig, unless the movie is bad, pointing these
flaws wouldn't be necessary.

PJ---counting the days 'till december 19

>
>



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On Sat, 10 Nov 2001 12:09:12  
 Jason Mulligan wrote:
>On 9/11/2001 at 17:23 PM Craig J. Ries wrote:
>
>>Then there's that trailer that you have to own the DVD to see (god what
>>a pathetic PR move imo).
>
>Yeah, I guess. Although it's nice to see Lucas give us DVD owners something extra 
>and exclusive.  
>
>It is a nice trailer too. It would be nice to be able to save it to disc though so I could rewatch it without 
>using that dopey InterActual player though, which is buggy and crashes all the time.
>
>
>

However you will find it on every Napster-like movie and video
database very soon :-). Now, I found this trailer, which is not the
one called "breathing" presented with Monster inc. I found it here: 
http://www.theforce.net/theater/trailers/episodeii/index.shtml

Somebody can tell me what this one is? Is that the DVD trailer?

Thanx
PJ



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From: Alex B <al.burl@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Magician movie
In-Reply-To: <001901c169f9$d71f2400$fb2efea9@pacbell.net>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2001 18:18:30 +0000
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Alex B <al.burl@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Magician movie
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I think I remember reading somewhere (probably on this list) some years 
ago, that if Magician was made into a movie, it would have to be somewhere 
around 9 hours long, just to get everything in.

Al

At 07:10 10/11/2001 -0800, Kevykev wrote:
>I've always thought fantasy movies are really bad quality. The best last
>movie was Conan which isn't much:(
>Still I think Magician and the whole Riftwar made into movies would be
>great. I've thought so since I first read Magician in '93.Ray's just great
>using words to create a mental image:)
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Jason Mulligan" <sulimo@bigpond.net.au>
>To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
>Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2001 8:14 PM
>Subject: RE: OT: Harry Potter movie
>
>
> > On 9/11/2001 at 13:37 PM Allan Mills wrote:
> >
> > >Keep what true to the movie ? Don't you mean true to the book ?
> > >
> > > Ray does not make movies but if anyone comes along with enough money he
> > >will sell the rights so that a movie can be made. Last I heard nobody was
> > >going to do a Magician movie.
> >
> > Lets hope the success of Harry Potter and Lord of the Rings inspires some
>people
> > to try their hand at Magician.
> >
> >
> >
> >



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From: "Andrew Scott" <a.sc0tt@home.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
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Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2001 10:22:45 -0800
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From: "Paddyjack [ ]" <erykel@lycos.com>
> On Sat, 10 Nov 2001 12:09:12
>  Jason Mulligan wrote:
> >On 9/11/2001 at 17:23 PM Craig J. Ries wrote:
> >
> >>Then there's that trailer that you have to own the DVD to see (god what
> >>a pathetic PR move imo).
> >
> >Yeah, I guess. Although it's nice to see Lucas give us DVD owners something extra
> >and exclusive.
> >
> >It is a nice trailer too. It would be nice to be able to save it to disc though so I could rewatch it without
> >using that dopey InterActual player though, which is buggy and crashes all the time.
> >
>
> However you will find it on every Napster-like movie and video database very soon :-). Now, I found this trailer, which is not the one called "breathing" presented with Monster inc. I found it here:
> http://www.theforce.net/theater/trailers/episodeii/index.shtml
>
> Somebody can tell me what this one is? Is that the DVD trailer?
>
> Thanx
> PJ
You can get the DVD trailer from
http://drkhwk.net/ep2/ep2_mysterydvd_480.mov
I would suggest right clicking and saving it since its about 14 megs.

Umm... *tries unsuccesfully to mention something on topic*






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Subject: RIP Ken Kesey
Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2001 22:44:08 +0100
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Magnus Arvidsson" <magnus.arvidsson75@telia.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RIP Ken Kesey
Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2001 22:44:08 +0100
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The author of "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest", Ken Kesey,
has died and the worlds is a poorer place.

Rest in piece Ken, and may the scientific community
find a cure for cancer soon.

Magnus



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References: <3154245F-D58C-11D5-94AB-003065A8A644@bittersea.com>
Subject: Re: Murder in LaMut
Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2001 22:01:46 -0000
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From: "Stephen Weightman" <stephen@sweightman5150.karoo.co.uk>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Murder in LaMut
Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2001 22:01:46 -0000
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Hey Ray
                Could you elborate on what is involved in a 'final rewrite'.
Just wondering if you look at the whole book or just parts your not happy
with. Also have you ever got to a final rewrite and thought a major part of
the book isn't right....ending, a major character etc.

Thanks

Stephen Weightman


----- Original Message -----
From: "Raymond Feist" <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2001 3:36 AM
Subject: Re: Murder in LaMut


>
> On Friday, November 9, 2001, at 10:23 AM, John wrote:
>
> > Hi Ray, just got this in an email, comments please
> >
> >
> > Big fan from South Africa, Murder in Lamut has been released here
> > (book 2
> > in the Riftwar saga)
> > -- John
> >
> > john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
> > http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.
> >
> > Raymond E Feist Ring
> > http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> Hardly.  Joel and I are working on the final rewrite.
>
> Best,R.E.F.
> ----
>
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
> stupidity.
>
>



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Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2001 14:49:27 -0800
Subject: Re: Murder in LaMut
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2001 14:49:27 -0800
Subject: Re: Murder in LaMut
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Saturday, November 10, 2001, at 02:01 PM, Stephen Weightman wrote:

> Hey Ray
>                 Could you elborate on what is involved in a 'final 
> rewrite'.
> Just wondering if you look at the whole book or just parts your not 
> happy
> with. Also have you ever got to a final rewrite and thought a major 
> part of
> the book isn't right....ending, a major character etc.
>
> Thanks
>
> Stephen Weightman
>

"Hey Ray"?

A final rewrite is . . . the last time you rewrite.

And no, you don't just look at parts of it.  And no, you don't suddenly 
find major components you're not happy with.

Amateurs do that sort of thing.  After twenty three years of writing 
novels, I've sort of got the hang of it.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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From: Nathan <nathan@irish4ever.com>
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Subject: Re: Magician movie
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2001 15:55:21 -0800 (PST)
From: Nathan <nathan@irish4ever.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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Alex B <al.burl@tiscali.co.uk>
> wrote:
>[...] that if Magician was made into a movie, it >would have to be somewhere 
>around 9 hours long, just to get everything in.

That's a reasonable time, good for TV-series (or multiple DVD-Video),
it would be a perfect movie. All events, characters and threads
included. But it couldn't be displayed in the cinema. Shorter (too
short) cinema version would leave the audience in certain lack of
impressions.

Nathan

_____________________________________________________________
Get your Free, Permanent, and Private Irish Email Today!
---------- http://www.irish4ever.com -----------



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From: Alex B <al.burl@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Magician movie
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2001 00:19:26 +0000
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Alex B <al.burl@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Magician movie
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Maybe if was in a trilogy of 3 hour films.

Al


At 15:55 10/11/2001 -0800, you wrote:
>Alex B <al.burl@tiscali.co.uk>
> > wrote:
> >[...] that if Magician was made into a movie, it >would have to be 
> somewhere
> >around 9 hours long, just to get everything in.
>
>That's a reasonable time, good for TV-series (or multiple DVD-Video), it 
>would be a perfect movie. All events, characters and threads included. But 
>it couldn't be displayed in the cinema. Shorter (too short) cinema version 
>would leave the audience in certain lack of impressions.
>
>Nathan
>
>_____________________________________________________________
>Get your Free, Permanent, and Private Irish Email Today!
>---------- http://www.irish4ever.com -----------



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Subject: Re: RIP Ken Kesey
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2001 23:28:50 -0800 (PST)
From: Joshua Stanton <jasharkalain@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: RIP Ken Kesey
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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--- Magnus Arvidsson <magnus.arvidsson75@telia.com> wrote:
> The author of "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest", Ken
> Kesey,
> has died and the worlds is a poorer place.

Yes, the world is poorer...

> Rest in piece Ken, and may the scientific community
> find a cure for cancer soon.

Sorry to be crude at this moment, but peace in this
case is "a" not "i".  Sure you probably know this, and
it's trivial, but considering how he died, probably a
good distinction to make.

~Joshua~
 
> Magnus
> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Find a job, post your resume.
http://careers.yahoo.com



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Subject: Re: RIP Ken Kesey
Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2001 16:27:50 +0100
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Magnus Arvidsson" <magnus.arvidsson75@telia.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: RIP Ken Kesey
Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2001 16:27:50 +0100
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>
> --- Magnus Arvidsson <magnus.arvidsson75@telia.com>
> wrote:
> > The author of "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest", Ken
> > Kesey,
> > has died and the worlds is a poorer place.
>
> Yes, the world is poorer...
>
> > Rest in piece Ken, and may the scientific community
> > find a cure for cancer soon.
>
> Sorry to be crude at this moment, but peace in this
> case is "a" not "i".  Sure you probably know this, and
> it's trivial, but considering how he died, probably a
> good distinction to make.
>
Ooops, my bad. Rest in peace.. Sorry for the crude
spelling.

Magnus



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From: "Arrian Rutten" <arrian@ran.myweb.nl>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Dutch Honoured Enemy released
Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2001 22:23:35 +0100
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Arrian Rutten" <arrian@ran.myweb.nl>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Dutch Honoured Enemy released
Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2001 22:23:35 +0100
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Hi all,

The Dutch Honoured Enemy ("De eervolle vijand") has been released. Also,
(cheap) hardback editions of all four books in the Serpentwar Saga ("De
boeken van de Slangenoorlog") have been released (previously, only trade
paperback editions were available).

Bye,
Arrian Rutten.



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Subject: Re: Murder in LaMut
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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*** EOOH ***
From: dale.buckett@za.abnamro.com
X-Server-Uuid: 6c53bea5-51ca-494f-b846-8e9c802a4386
Subject: Re: Murder in LaMut
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 07:09:56 +0200
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Its a bit short, but enjoy the front cover!!

(Embedded image moved to file: pic29168.pcx)

John <john@crydee.com> wrote:
>
>Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com> writes
>>
>>On Friday, November 9, 2001, at 10:23 AM, John wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Ray, just got this in an email, comments please
>>>
>>>
>>> Big fan from South Africa, Murder in Lamut has been released here
>>>(book 2
>>> in the Riftwar saga)
>>Hardly.  Joel and I are working on the final rewrite.
>>
>>Best,R.E.F.
>
>I thought so. I will email him and as if he can send me a copy, it will
>save you a lot of hard work <G>
>--
>John
>
>john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
>http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.
>
>Raymond E Feist Ring
>http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm

[ATTACHMENT ELIDED BY ARCHIVIST]

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From: Allan Mills <milla@css.com.au>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" (FEISTFANS-L) <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Murder in LaMut
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 16:20:42 +1100
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*** EOOH ***
From: Allan Mills <milla@css.com.au>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" (FEISTFANS-L) <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Murder in LaMut
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 16:20:42 +1100
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

 Aaargh, KILL !!

 Please don't send attachments to this mailing list and doubly don't send
binary attachments. If you want to make it available then upload it to a web
or ftp server and provide a link.

 On top of that the picture you sent was for the most part and
unintelligible mess.

 Allan

> -----Original Message-----
> From: dale.buckett@za.abnamro.com [mailto:dale.buckett@za.abnamro.com]
> Sent: Monday, November 12, 2001 4:10 PM
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Subject: Re: Murder in LaMut
> 
> 
> Its a bit short, but enjoy the front cover!!
> 
> (Embedded image moved to file: pic29168.pcx)
> 
> 
>                                                               
>                                                            
>                     John                                      
>                                                            
>                     <john@crydee.com>          To:     
> FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)                             
>                     Sent by:                   cc:            
>                                                            
>                     owner-FEISTFANS-L@c        Subject:     
> Re: Murder in LaMut                                          
>                     ornell.edu                                
>                                                            
>                                                               
>                                                            
>                                                               
>                                                            
>                     11/10/01 09:50 AM                         
>                                                            
>                     Please respond to                         
>                                                            
>                     FEISTFANS-L                               
>                                                            
>                                                               
>                                                            
>                                                               
>                                                            
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com> writes
> >
> >On Friday, November 9, 2001, at 10:23 AM, John wrote:
> >
> >> Hi Ray, just got this in an email, comments please
> >>
> >>
> >> Big fan from South Africa, Murder in Lamut has been released here
> >>(book 2
> >> in the Riftwar saga)
> >Hardly.  Joel and I are working on the final rewrite.
> >
> >Best,R.E.F.
> 
> I thought so. I will email him and as if he can send me a 
> copy, it will
> save you a lot of hard work <G>
> --
> John
> 
> john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
> http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.
> 
> Raymond E Feist Ring
> http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm
> 
> 
> 
> 



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Subject: Re: Dutch Honoured Enemy released
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 16:19:11 +0100
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*** EOOH ***
From: "DPont" <d.pontolaeng@chello.nl>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Dutch Honoured Enemy released
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 16:19:11 +0100
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Where can I buy them????????

Tot dob!
Stefanie

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Arrian Rutten" <arrian@ran.myweb.nl>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2001 10:23 PM
Subject: Dutch Honoured Enemy released


> Hi all,
> 
> The Dutch Honoured Enemy ("De eervolle vijand") has been released. Also,
> (cheap) hardback editions of all four books in the Serpentwar Saga ("De
> boeken van de Slangenoorlog") have been released (previously, only trade
> paperback editions were available).
> 
> Bye,
> Arrian Rutten.
> 



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From: Terry Corbett <macros102@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Murder in LaMut
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 07:49:48 -0800 (PST)
From: Terry Corbett <macros102@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Murder in LaMut
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Will Murder in LaMut have the same publishing problems
as Honored Enemy?

Terry Corbett

--- Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com> wrote:
> 
> On Saturday, November 10, 2001, at 02:01 PM, Stephen
> Weightman wrote:
> 
> > Hey Ray
> >                 Could you elborate on what is
> involved in a 'final 
> > rewrite'.
> > Just wondering if you look at the whole book or
> just parts your not 
> > happy
> > with. Also have you ever got to a final rewrite
> and thought a major 
> > part of
> > the book isn't right....ending, a major character
> etc.
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Stephen Weightman
> >
> 
> "Hey Ray"?
> 
> A final rewrite is . . . the last time you rewrite.
> 
> And no, you don't just look at parts of it.  And no,
> you don't suddenly 
> find major components you're not happy with.
> 
> Amateurs do that sort of thing.  After twenty three
> years of writing 
> novels, I've sort of got the hang of it.
> 
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
> 
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be
> explained away by 
> stupidity.
> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Find a job, post your resume.
http://careers.yahoo.com



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Subject: Re: Dutch Honoured Enemy released
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 18:32:19 +0100
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Erik Hagen" <Erik_Hagen@zonnet.nl>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Dutch Honoured Enemy released
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 18:32:19 +0100
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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In your local book-store, I guess. I've allready seen the book in Amsterdam,
Utrecht and Gouda. So I guess they will be in your book-store as well.

Ciao!
Erik

----- Oorspronkelijk bericht -----
Van: DPont <d.pontolaeng@chello.nl>
Aan: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Verzonden: maandag 12 november 2001 16:19
Onderwerp: Re: Dutch Honoured Enemy released


> Where can I buy them????????
>
> Tot dob!
> Stefanie
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Arrian Rutten" <arrian@ran.myweb.nl>
> To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2001 10:23 PM
> Subject: Dutch Honoured Enemy released
>
>
> > Hi all,
> >
> > The Dutch Honoured Enemy ("De eervolle vijand") has been released. Also,
> > (cheap) hardback editions of all four books in the Serpentwar Saga ("De
> > boeken van de Slangenoorlog") have been released (previously, only trade
> > paperback editions were available).
> >
> > Bye,
> > Arrian Rutten.
> >
>



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Subject: Re: Murder in LaMut
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 10:50:18 -0800
Subject: Re: Murder in LaMut
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Monday, November 12, 2001, at 07:49 AM, Terry Corbett wrote:

> Will Murder in LaMut have the same publishing problems
> as Honored Enemy?
>
>

Problems?  If you mean about an US edition, yes, there isn't one.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
Subject: A question for Ray
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 13:10:48 -0600
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From: "Lowder, Jason" <jasonl@spfld.kebcpa.com>
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Ray,

A while ago you had a contest to come up with a character to use in your
world, do you think you will try that again?

Jason



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Subject: Gone for a while
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I've been gone for a while.  Hello to all,

John

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp



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Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 13:03:13 -0800
Subject: Re: A question for Ray
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
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On Monday, November 12, 2001, at 11:10 AM, Lowder, Jason wrote:

> Ray,
>
> A while ago you had a contest to come up with a character to use in your
> world, do you think you will try that again?
>
> Jason
>
>
>
>
Probably not.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Subject: Re: A question for Ray
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Magnus Arvidsson" <magnus.arvidsson75@telia.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: A question for Ray
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DOH! That would have been fun. =( Why not
have contests? Too little time or what?
I mean it would be neat even if the winning character
only gets a minor part. Maybe merchant or a sailor. Not major plot bearing
characters,
just a small one.

Magsnuss

 > > Ray,
> >
> > A while ago you had a contest to come up with a character to use in your
> > world, do you think you will try that again?
> >
> > Jason
> >
> >
> >
> >
> Probably not.
>
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
>
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
> stupidity.
>



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Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 19:53:04 -0500
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Paul Arzooman <soundcage@erols.com>
Subject: Re: Murder in LaMut
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At 10:50 AM 11/12/01 -0800, you wrote:

>Problems?  If you mean about an US edition, yes, there isn't one.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>----

What's going on?  Are U.S. publishing companies cutting back?



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Subject: Re: Murder in LaMut
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Murder in LaMut
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 18:50:51 -0600
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So who do we as consumers yell at for being deprived of our favorite
author's books?

-James

----- Original Message -----
From: "Raymond Feist" <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2001 12:50 PM
Subject: Re: Murder in LaMut


>
> On Monday, November 12, 2001, at 07:49 AM, Terry Corbett wrote:
>
> > Will Murder in LaMut have the same publishing problems
> > as Honored Enemy?
> >
> >
>
> Problems?  If you mean about an US edition, yes, there isn't one.
>
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
>
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
> stupidity.
>



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From: "Wendy Smith" <REFlist@yahoo.com>
To: "feistfans" <feistfans-l@cornell.edu>
Subject: Just ordered Murder in Lamut
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 00:22:55 -0600
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From: "Wendy Smith" <REFlist@yahoo.com>
To: "feistfans" <feistfans-l@cornell.edu>
Subject: Just ordered Murder in Lamut
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 00:22:55 -0600
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I just ordered Murder in Lamut at Amazon.co.uk and noticed that there
are two hardcovers listed. One for 11.99 pounds and publishing date of
December 2, 2002 and the other for 17.99 pounds publishing date of May
7, 2002.  Does any one know what the differences may be?  

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Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 09:46:51 +0200
Subject: Re: Dutch Honoured Enemy released
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Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 09:46:51 +0200
Subject: Re: Dutch Honoured Enemy released
From: Ramon van Asselt <r.vanasselt@scans-en-sites.nl>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
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Hi I ordered one at bol.com.

> Van: "DPont" <d.pontolaeng@chello.nl>
> Beantwoord: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Datum: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 16:19:11 +0100
> Aan: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
> Onderwerp: Re: Dutch Honoured Enemy released
> 
> Where can I buy them????????
> 
> Tot dob!
> Stefanie
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Arrian Rutten" <arrian@ran.myweb.nl>
> To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2001 10:23 PM
> Subject: Dutch Honoured Enemy released
> 
> 
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> The Dutch Honoured Enemy ("De eervolle vijand") has been released. Also,
>> (cheap) hardback editions of all four books in the Serpentwar Saga ("De
>> boeken van de Slangenoorlog") have been released (previously, only trade
>> paperback editions were available).
>> 
>> Bye,
>> Arrian Rutten.
>> 
> 
> 



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Subject: Re: Just ordered Murder in Lamut
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Donal K. Fellows" <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Just ordered Murder in Lamut
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 09:59:59 +0000
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"Wendy Smith" <REFlist@yahoo.com>
> I just ordered Murder in Lamut at Amazon.co.uk and noticed that there
> are two hardcovers listed. One for 11.99 pounds and publishing date of
> December 2, 2002 and the other for 17.99 pounds publishing date of May
> 7, 2002.  Does any one know what the differences may be?  

The later one is probably a trade paperback (i.e. the same size and
page layout as a hardback but without the expensive binding process.)
Many SF and fantasy books in the UK come out in three stages:
hardback, TP six months (or so) later, and standard paperback six
months or so after that.  I tend to either buy books in hardback
(Ray's got that honour) or small paperback, but some people can't wait
for the cheap option and can't afford the fastest... <g>

Donal.
-- 
Donal K. Fellows, Department of Computer Science, University of Manchester, UK.
(work) fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk     Tel: +44-161-275-6137  (preferred email addr.)
(home) donal@ugglan.demon.co.uk  Tel: +44-1274-401017   Mobile: +44-7957-298955
http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~fellowsd/  (Don't quote my .sig; I've seen it before!)



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On Tue, 13 Nov 2001 00:22:55  
 Wendy Smith wrote:
>I just ordered Murder in Lamut at Amazon.co.uk and noticed that there are two hardcovers listed. One for 11.99 pounds and publishing date of December 2, 2002 and the other for 17.99 pounds publishing date of May 7, 2002.  Does any one know what the differences may be?  
>
 

The December book must be a trade. Now, I'm curious about you ordering
a book 6 months in advance.... :-) Is there any advantages in doing
that? If the price s changing in the next 6 months, i.e. going down,
are you stuck on paying 17 pounds?

PJ



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From: "Karl Ravenscroft" <karl.ravenscroft@ntlworld.com>
To: <feistfans-l@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: De-lurking
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 17:30:18 -0000
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From: "Karl Ravenscroft" <karl.ravenscroft@ntlworld.com>
To: <feistfans-l@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: De-lurking
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 17:30:18 -0000
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Hello Ray and everyone else.

I've been lurking deep in the shadows of the list under various e-mail
address for a couple of years now.

I'm breaking cover to pass on the thanks and appreciation of my young
cousin (and of course myself) who I introduced your books when she
complained that she was bored after she had been house bound for a few
weeks with a couple of broken legs from a horse riding accident.

I passed her my copy of magician and she hasn't looked back since. She
has managed to work through all your books and she has already said that
she would like a couple of your books for Christmas.

Regards

Karl Ravenscroft





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Subject: New question for Ray
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I'm sorry if these questions have been asked before, but I need the answers in 
an essay-like thing I'm working on for College. Basically, I have two 
questions:
1) Is there any specific philosophical idea behind your way of writing?
2) Is there something between the lines in the books you want us readers 
tolearn from?

GTF



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From: "Michael Gibson" <gibfish@gibbyco.freeserve.co.uk>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Murder in LaMut
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 20:06:11 -0000
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Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: "Michael Gibson" <gibfish@gibbyco.freeserve.co.uk>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Murder in LaMut
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 20:06:11 -0000
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

>  Aaargh, KILL !!
>
>  Please don't send attachments to this mailing list and doubly don't send
> binary attachments. If you want to make it available then upload it to a web
> or ftp server and provide a link.
>
>  On top of that the picture you sent was for the most part and
> unintelligible mess.

I can't quite remember the cover of HE, but it looks like it's been adapted from
it - it even looks like it says Forstchen, but it's hard to make out.

Mike,
Gibfish of the West

"Better to light a candle than to curse the darkness."
Confucius

<snip>



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Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 16:19:36 EST
Subject: Re: Murder in LaMut
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From: Valheru22@aol.com
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 16:19:36 EST
Subject: Re: Murder in LaMut
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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I have a question. Does Murder in LaMut deal with the normal characters such 
as Pug, and Tomas?

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Subject: Re: New question for Ray
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 17:05:21 -0800
Subject: Re: New question for Ray
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Tuesday, November 13, 2001, at 10:23 AM, Geir T. Flognfeldt wrote:

> I'm sorry if these questions have been asked before, but I need the 
> answers in
> an essay-like thing I'm working on for College. Basically, I have two
> questions:
> 1) Is there any specific philosophical idea behind your way of writing?

Nope.


> 2) Is there something between the lines in the books you want us readers
> tolearn from?

Between the lines is white space. Learn from that what you will.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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From: "Vera/George" <vlukic.george@chariot.net.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: New question for Ray
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 20:40:52 +1030
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Vera/George" <vlukic.george@chariot.net.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: New question for Ray
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 20:40:52 +1030
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Another quick question for Ray (Sorry for bugging you. :P), what cultures
did you base the various races in Midkemia and Kelewan on?

A friend of mine says that you based the Tsurani culture on Korea, but that
still leaves the Kingdom (I'm guessing English, but better ask anyways),
Kesh and all the others... Did you just make them up from nothing, or did
you actually base them on something?

George

-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Raymond Feist
>Sent: Wednesday, 14 November 2001 11:35
>To: FEISTFANS-L
>Subject: Re: New question for Ray
>
>
>
>On Tuesday, November 13, 2001, at 10:23 AM, Geir T. Flognfeldt wrote:
>
>> I'm sorry if these questions have been asked before, but I need the
>> answers in
>> an essay-like thing I'm working on for College. Basically, I have two
>> questions:
>> 1) Is there any specific philosophical idea behind your way of writing?
>
>Nope.
>
>
>> 2) Is there something between the lines in the books you want us readers
>> tolearn from?
>
>Between the lines is white space. Learn from that what you will.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
>stupidity.
>


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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: RE: New question for Ray
In-Reply-To: <NFBBJHMJGHPCENJOIPNECECDCAAA.vlukic.george@chariot.net.au>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 10:45:41 +0000
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: RE: New question for Ray
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

http://www.psihawk.com/feist/
http://www.psihawk.com/feist/feist-faq.html
http://www.psihawk.com/feist/feist-faq.html#ML-Geog-Mk
etc

regards,
rip

At 08:40 PM 11/14/01 +1030, Vera/George wrote:
>Another quick question for Ray (Sorry for bugging you. :P), what cultures
>did you base the various races in Midkemia and Kelewan on?
>
>A friend of mine says that you based the Tsurani culture on Korea, but that
>still leaves the Kingdom (I'm guessing English, but better ask anyways),
>Kesh and all the others... Did you just make them up from nothing, or did
>you actually base them on something?
>
>George
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Raymond Feist
>Sent: Wednesday, 14 November 2001 11:35
>To: FEISTFANS-L
>Subject: Re: New question for Ray
>
>
>
>On Tuesday, November 13, 2001, at 10:23 AM, Geir T. Flognfeldt wrote:
>
>> I'm sorry if these questions have been asked before, but I need the
>> answers in
>> an essay-like thing I'm working on for College. Basically, I have two
>> questions:
>> 1) Is there any specific philosophical idea behind your way of writing?
>
>Nope.
>
>
>> 2) Is there something between the lines in the books you want us readers
>> tolearn from?
>
>Between the lines is white space. Learn from that what you will.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
>stupidity.



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In-reply-to: <NFBBJHMJGHPCENJOIPNECECDCAAA.vlukic.george@chariot.net.au>
Subject: Re: New question for Ray
References:  <NFBBJHMJGHPCENJOIPNECECDCAAA.vlukic.george@chariot.net.au>
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Donal K. Fellows" <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: New question for Ray
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 11:06:00 +0000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

"Vera/George" <vlukic.george@chariot.net.au>
> Another quick question for Ray (Sorry for bugging you. :P), what cultures
> did you base the various races in Midkemia and Kelewan on?
> 
> A friend of mine says that you based the Tsurani culture on Korea, but that
> still leaves the Kingdom (I'm guessing English, but better ask anyways),
> Kesh and all the others... Did you just make them up from nothing, or did
> you actually base them on something?

This has been asked before, and you are both (partially) right.

The FAQ (http://www.psihawk.com/feist/feist-faq.html) says:
|Is Tsurani culture based on Japanese culture? 
|
|From: "Raymond E. Feist" 
|Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 07:07:15 -0800 
|Subject: Re: Tsurani 
|
|Japan during the Tokagawa Shogunate, China during the Sung Dynasty,
|Korea for some of the cultural window dressing, a touch of Zulu from
|before the Zulu-Boer War, and a couple of things I cribbed from the
|Aztecs.  Mix well, stir, and pour.

and
|Hey, isn't <some province> in the Kingdom a lot like <some country> on Earth? 
|
|From: raymond@cts.com (Raymond E. Feist)
|Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 15:03:23 -0800
|Subject: Re: Ever annoying news!
|
|Well, it's an easy way to give familiar references without getting
|really convoluted about it.  Assume the Kingdom is really like 17th
|Century France (about the time of Louis 13th) in the East.  In the
|west, it's a lot more like England of roughly the same time.  The Far
|Coast has a mind-set a lot like frontier America or 19th Century
|Australia.  Bas-Tyra is very French.  Assume the "King's Tongue" is a
|linqua franca, which literally meant "language of the Franks," or
|"French" during the early Crusades.  It's a bastard tongue which
|includes both eastern and western dialects.  But the "pure" language
|of "Bas-Tyra," is "French." Rodez is Spanish.  Ran is something akin
|to Flemish/Dutch.  Salador is a very cosmopolitan city that is very
|international.  Krondor somewhat less so.  Darkmoor is obviously
|German in language but very French in culture, or at the least
|Alsasian.  The Free Cities is very Lebanese/Jewish (think of Beruit
|and Jerusalem before they got bombed to hell), trading centers much
|like those ancient eastern Mediterranean city states of old.  Oueg is
|Rome as an Island Nation, with Imperial Romans as nobles, Italians as
|peasants.  The Jal-Pur is Arabic, and Kesh is a mix of many nations:
|Isalani is China, there's some other eastern cultures, as well as the
|Brijainers who are essentially Vikings, the Ashuta who are
|essentially Cheyenne (with a very different attitude toward women),
|and the "Pure Blood" themselves are a mix between Egyptians and
|Pathians.  That's off the top of my head.  I probably have missed a
|few others.
|
|From: raymond@CTS.COM (Raymond E. Feist)
|Date: Wed, 27 Mar 1996 08:21:41 -0800
|Subject: Re: 
|
|Dave, I've always thought of Hadati as something of a cross between
|Highlanders and Apaches, sort of "highland" Apaches.

Donal.
-- 
Donal K. Fellows, Department of Computer Science, University of Manchester, UK.
(work) fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk     Tel: +44-161-275-6137  (preferred email addr.)
(home) donal@ugglan.demon.co.uk  Tel: +44-1274-401017   Mobile: +44-7957-298955
http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~fellowsd/  (Don't quote my .sig; I've seen it before!)



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Subject: Legends
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 23:54:55 -0000
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Subject: Legends
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 23:54:55 -0000
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I've just finished reading Legends - the first book in a trilogy of short
stories edited by Robert Silverberg.

It contains some stories by Stephen King, Robert Silverberg, Orson Scott
Card and a story called the Wood Boy by some other bloke, whose name escapes
me, but it's something like Roy Faust <g>

I have already read book II in the series - thought it was great. Terry
Goodkind, George R R Martin and Anne McCaffrey.
Anne McCaffrey is one of my favourite authors, but I've never read the other
two. As a result, I very nearly bought 4 George Martin books at once.

So, back to the first book. Stephen King wasn't very interesting - I found
it a little hard to follow, and weird. Robert Silverberg took a bit of
getting into, and turned out interesting in the end. Orson Scott Card I read
in one go. Strange, but enjoyable. The last story was something to do with a
Duke Borris from CrieD?? I think I shall be getting a few more books by this
author, if only I could remember his name!

Now I need to get Vol III, containing Ursula K LeGuin, Robert Jordan, Terry
Pratchett and Tad Williams.

If it will help you, here are the ISBN numbers of the Tor books editions:
I: 0812566637
II: 0812575237
III: 0812566645

BJS

PS - Yes, I know that some of the above may be old hat to a number of you,
but I'm sure not everyone has all read Legends.

PPS - What am I reading now? Fellowship of the Ring in time for the 14th of
December. :-)



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 11:27:43 +1000 (EST)
From: "A Irving" <s355156@student.uq.edu.au>
To: feistfans-l@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Legends
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Legends was released initially as a single hard cover here in australia, 
then again as 2 separate trade paperbacks. No trilogy for us.
Responding To:    <lists@bjs.org.uk>
Original Date:    Wed, 14 Nov 2001 23:54:55 -0000
> 
> I've just finished reading Legends - the first book in a trilogy of short
> stories edited by Robert Silverberg.
> 
> It contains some stories by Stephen King, Robert Silverberg, Orson Scott
> Card and a story called the Wood Boy by some other bloke, whose name 
> escapes
> me, but it's something like Roy Faust <g>
> 
> I have already read book II in the series - thought it was great. Terry
> Goodkind, George R R Martin and Anne McCaffrey.
> Anne McCaffrey is one of my favourite authors, but I've never read the 
> other
> two. As a result, I very nearly bought 4 George Martin books at once.
> 
> So, back to the first book. Stephen King wasn't very interesting - I 
> found
> it a little hard to follow, and weird. Robert Silverberg took a bit of
> getting into, and turned out interesting in the end. Orson Scott Card I 
> read
> in one go. Strange, but enjoyable. The last story was something to do 
> with a
> Duke Borris from CrieD?? I think I shall be getting a few more books by 
> this
> author, if only I could remember his name!
> 
> Now I need to get Vol III, containing Ursula K LeGuin, Robert Jordan, 
> Terry
> Pratchett and Tad Williams.
> 
> If it will help you, here are the ISBN numbers of the Tor books editions:
> I: 0812566637
> II: 0812575237
> III: 0812566645
> 
> BJS
> 
> PS - Yes, I know that some of the above may be old hat to a number of 
> you,
> but I'm sure not everyone has all read Legends.
> 
> PPS - What am I reading now? Fellowship of the Ring in time for the 14th 
> of
> December. :-)
> 




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Subject: Re: Just ordered Murder in Lamut
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 00:12:04 -0600
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From: "Wendy Smith" <REFlist@yahoo.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Just ordered Murder in Lamut
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 00:12:04 -0600
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Well I was ordering it so I wouldn't forget later, but I cancelled the order
until I found out which one I wanted to order.  Now I will probably wait,
becuase I'm afraid I might forget and order it again.  Don't need to books.
Thanks for the info.

Wendy


----- Original Message -----
From: "Paddyjack [ ]" <erykel@lycos.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2001 8:21 AM
Subject: Re: Just ordered Murder in Lamut


>
> On Tue, 13 Nov 2001 00:22:55
>  Wendy Smith wrote:
> >I just ordered Murder in Lamut at Amazon.co.uk and noticed that there are
> >two hardcovers listed. One for 11.99 pounds and publishing date of December
> >2, 2002 and the other for 17.99 pounds publishing date of May 7, 2002.  Does
> >any one know what the differences may be?
> >
>
>
> The December book must be a trade. Now, I'm curious about you ordering a
> book 6 months in advance.... :-) Is there any advantages in doing that? If
> the price s changing in the next 6 months, i.e. going down, are you stuck on
> paying 17 pounds?
>
> PJ
>



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Subject: Re: Just ordered Murder in Lamut
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Darren McClung" <d@dwmc.org>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Just ordered Murder in Lamut
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 12:41:00 -0600
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

This happened with HE.  A few days before the book was released Amazon.co.uk
dropped the price drastically.  When my order shipped, I was still billed
for the orriginal price.  However, when I emailed them about it, they
promptly issued me a credit for the difference.  I know several others who
where in the same boat and had a similar experience.

Darren

>
> The December book must be a trade. Now, I'm curious about you ordering a
> book 6 months in advance.... :-) Is there any advantages in doing that? If
> the price s changing in the next 6 months, i.e. going down, are you stuck on
> paying 17 pounds?
>
> PJ
>



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 10:55:11 -0800 (PST)
From: Terry Corbett <macros102@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Legends
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I have the 3 Legends books, but I haven't read them
yet.  I think I saw somewhere that they're making a
4th one.  I mainly got the first one because of Ray,
the second because of Anne McCaffery, and the third
because of Robert Jordan.  I love Anne McCaffery's
Dragonriders of Pern books.  I have them all, even
though I haven't read the newest one yet.  I've got
far too many books to read and so little time. :)

Terry Corbett

--- lists@bjs.org.uk wrote:
> I've just finished reading Legends - the first book
> in a trilogy of short
> stories edited by Robert Silverberg.
> 
> It contains some stories by Stephen King, Robert
> Silverberg, Orson Scott
> Card and a story called the Wood Boy by some other
> bloke, whose name escapes
> me, but it's something like Roy Faust <g>
> 
> I have already read book II in the series - thought
> it was great. Terry
> Goodkind, George R R Martin and Anne McCaffrey.
> Anne McCaffrey is one of my favourite authors, but
> I've never read the other
> two. As a result, I very nearly bought 4 George
> Martin books at once.
> 
> So, back to the first book. Stephen King wasn't very
> interesting - I found
> it a little hard to follow, and weird. Robert
> Silverberg took a bit of
> getting into, and turned out interesting in the end.
> Orson Scott Card I read
> in one go. Strange, but enjoyable. The last story
> was something to do with a
> Duke Borris from CrieD?? I think I shall be getting
> a few more books by this
> author, if only I could remember his name!
> 
> Now I need to get Vol III, containing Ursula K
> LeGuin, Robert Jordan, Terry
> Pratchett and Tad Williams.
> 
> If it will help you, here are the ISBN numbers of
> the Tor books editions:
> I: 0812566637
> II: 0812575237
> III: 0812566645
> 
> BJS
> 
> PS - Yes, I know that some of the above may be old
> hat to a number of you,
> but I'm sure not everyone has all read Legends.
> 
> PPS - What am I reading now? Fellowship of the Ring
> in time for the 14th of
> December. :-)
> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Find the one for you at Yahoo! Personals
http://personals.yahoo.com



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From: Martin Andersen <fan2met@online.no>
Subject: Re: Legends
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 21:56:07 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Martin Andersen <fan2met@online.no>
Subject: Re: Legends
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

If they're making a fourth one, which stories will be in that one? The 
three paperbacks cover all the stories in the hardback, so then the fourth 
one would have to contain new stories, wouldn't it?

Martin Andersen
-------------------------
"These are not books, lumps of lifeless paper, but minds alive on the 
shelves." --Gilbert Highet


At 10:55 15.11.01 -0800, you wrote:
>I have the 3 Legends books, but I haven't read them
>yet.  I think I saw somewhere that they're making a
>4th one.  I mainly got the first one because of Ray,
>the second because of Anne McCaffery, and the third
>because of Robert Jordan.  I love Anne McCaffery's
>Dragonriders of Pern books.  I have them all, even
>though I haven't read the newest one yet.  I've got
>far too many books to read and so little time. :)
>
>Terry Corbett
>
>--- lists@bjs.org.uk wrote:
> > I've just finished reading Legends - the first book
> > in a trilogy of short
> > stories edited by Robert Silverberg.
> >
> > It contains some stories by Stephen King, Robert
> > Silverberg, Orson Scott
> > Card and a story called the Wood Boy by some other
> > bloke, whose name escapes
> > me, but it's something like Roy Faust <g>
> >
> > I have already read book II in the series - thought
> > it was great. Terry
> > Goodkind, George R R Martin and Anne McCaffrey.
> > Anne McCaffrey is one of my favourite authors, but
> > I've never read the other
> > two. As a result, I very nearly bought 4 George
> > Martin books at once.
> >
> > So, back to the first book. Stephen King wasn't very
> > interesting - I found
> > it a little hard to follow, and weird. Robert
> > Silverberg took a bit of
> > getting into, and turned out interesting in the end.
> > Orson Scott Card I read
> > in one go. Strange, but enjoyable. The last story
> > was something to do with a
> > Duke Borris from CrieD?? I think I shall be getting
> > a few more books by this
> > author, if only I could remember his name!
> >
> > Now I need to get Vol III, containing Ursula K
> > LeGuin, Robert Jordan, Terry
> > Pratchett and Tad Williams.
> >
> > If it will help you, here are the ISBN numbers of
> > the Tor books editions:
> > I: 0812566637
> > II: 0812575237
> > III: 0812566645
> >
> > BJS
> >
> > PS - Yes, I know that some of the above may be old
> > hat to a number of you,
> > but I'm sure not everyone has all read Legends.
> >
> > PPS - What am I reading now? Fellowship of the Ring
> > in time for the 14th of
> > December. :-)
> >
>
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Find the one for you at Yahoo! Personals
>http://personals.yahoo.com



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Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 20:38:09 EST
Subject: Murder in Lamut
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From: Valheru22@aol.com
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 20:38:09 EST
Subject: Murder in Lamut
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I am curious I asked this before but never got an answer. Is Murder in Lamut 
deal with lik Pug, Tomas, Calis you know the ussual characters?

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Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 18:21:34 -0800
Subject: Re: Murder in Lamut
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 18:21:34 -0800
Subject: Re: Murder in Lamut
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Thursday, November 15, 2001, at 05:38 PM, Valheru22@aol.com wrote:

> I am curious I asked this before but never got an answer. Is Murder in 
> Lamut deal with lik Pug, Tomas, Calis you know the ussual characters?
>
>
>

The only character from the Riftwar you see in Murder in LaMut is Earl 
Vandross.  OK, so there's a cameo by Fantus.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.

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Subject: Re: Murder in Lamut
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*** EOOH ***
From: Valheru22@aol.com
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 21:39:50 EST
Subject: Re: Murder in Lamut
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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In a message dated 11/15/2001 6:29:45 PM Pacific Standard Time, 
raymond@bittersea.com writes:


> The only character from the Riftwar you see in Murder in LaMut is Earl 
> Vandross.  OK, so there's a cameo by Fantus.
> 
> Best, R.E.F.
> 

Oh so it is kind of like the Honorable enemy or the one that has a name like 
that? Because I heard that it had a band of kelewan soldiers and Medkimian 
solders together fighting of the moredhel.

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Subject: Re: Murder in Lamut
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Andrew Scott" <a.sc0tt@home.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Murder in Lamut
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 19:22:37 -0800
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Raymond Feist" <raymond@bittersea.com>
>
> The only character from the Riftwar you see in Murder in LaMut is Earl
> Vandross.  OK, so there's a cameo by Fantus.
>
> Best, R.E.F.

That reminds me, was fantus ever killed off or is he still alive after
SoaBC?





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Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 20:06:09 -0800
Subject: Re: Murder in Lamut
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 20:06:09 -0800
Subject: Re: Murder in Lamut
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Thursday, November 15, 2001, at 07:22 PM, Andrew Scott wrote:

> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Raymond Feist" <raymond@bittersea.com>
>>
>> The only character from the Riftwar you see in Murder in LaMut is Earl
>> Vandross.  OK, so there's a cameo by Fantus.
>>
>> Best, R.E.F.
>
> That reminds me, was fantus ever killed off or is he still alive after
> SoaBC?
>
>
>
>
>
>
WUTNB.

Best,R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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From: Jon Hope <jehope@chem.uwa.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Murder in Lamut
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 15:19:46 +0800
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From: Jon Hope <jehope@chem.uwa.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Murder in Lamut
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At 12:06 16/11/01, Ray wrote:


>WUTNB.

De-lurking for a moment..

I haven't seen that for a while. :-)

Cheers


Jon

Relax! Take life as it comes, you can't chase the sun, you can't race the wind



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Subject: Re: What locklear did to get banished.
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed,  7 Nov 2001 17:05:31 +0100
Subject: Re: What locklear did to get banished.
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>IIRC he "courted" {:-) I powerful noble or merchant's daughter. And
>the prince was worried that he would want to kill him.
So it was not to punish him but to protect him ? Odd.
Syl

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Subject: Re: Murder in Lamut
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 21:36:14 +0200
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Paavo Kakko <joeru@mbnet.fi>
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At 20:06 15.11.2001 -0800, you wrote:
>
>On Thursday, November 15, 2001, at 07:22 PM, Andrew Scott wrote:
>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Raymond Feist" <raymond@bittersea.com>
>>>
>>> The only character from the Riftwar you see in Murder in LaMut is Earl
>>> Vandross.  OK, so there's a cameo by Fantus.
>>>
>>> Best, R.E.F.
>>
>> That reminds me, was fantus ever killed off or is he still alive after
>> SoaBC?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>WUTNB.
>
>Best,R.E.F.
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
>stupidity.
>

 Will we see any of Fantus's illegitimate children in the future books? You
know, he was making out way back in Magician .. how long can a firedrake's
pregnancy be, for God's sake? Or is/was Fantus married? Where do firedrakes
actually keep their wedding rings? Hey, you know what? Wing and ring rhyme,
what a coincidence!

 -- Paavo Kakko

 "Again I hear you piping, for I know the tune so well,
  You rouse the heart to wander and be free,
  Tho' where you learned your music, not the God of song can tell,
  For you pipe the open highway and the sea."
                       .. Robert Louis Stevenson; The Piper ..



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*** EOOH ***
From: "Jason Martin" <res0b95g@verizon.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Murder in Lamut
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 12:54:37 -0800
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Does anyone know or think Amazon.uk will drop the price for Murder in Lamut?
$17.99(British) isn't to bad, but I have to import it.  I was hoping for a
deal like the last one, but I'm not holding my breath.  I imagine I have  a
couple more months before I need to order it.  This list is dead!!  Everyone
playing their new X-box and Nintendo GameCubes or something?  I'm getting my
GameCube on Sunday since none of the stores here will sell them early....

Jason

"Too much knowlege never makes for simple decisions."
                           Ghanima- Children of Dune



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*** EOOH ***
From: Jimmre@aol.com
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 17:05:25 EST
Subject: Re: Murder in Lamut
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
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Or, everyone could be standing in line for Harry Potter tickets!!

>This list is dead!!  Everyone
> playing their new X-box and Nintendo GameCubes or >something?  I'm getting my
> GameCube on Sunday since none of the stores here will >sell them early....
> 
> Jason
> 
> "Too much knowlege never makes for simple decisions."
>                            Ghanima- Children of Dune



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Subject: Well done....
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 22:45:56 -0000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Paul Whitby" <pjwhitby@lineone.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Well done....
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 22:45:56 -0000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Probably OT, I don't care, but that is one of the best sig's I have seen for
quite a while. Wheres it from ?

Paul

>
> De-lurking for a moment..
>
> I haven't seen that for a while. :-)
>
> Cheers
>
>
> Jon
>
> Relax! Take life as it comes, you can't chase the sun, you can't race the wind
>
>



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Subject: Re: Murder in Lamut
Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 09:22:05 +1000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "A Irving" <aignome@dingoblue.net.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Murder in Lamut
Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 09:22:05 +1000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

last time the price dropped like the day it was released or something. The
price only drops when the sales reach a certain point. I think it was the
top 10 or top 50 of the month or something. Not too many people pre-order,
but once it is released it may well drop.
----- Original Message -----
From: Jason Martin <res0b95g@verizon.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2001 6:54 AM
Subject: Murder in Lamut


> Does anyone know or think Amazon.uk will drop the price for Murder in Lamut?
> $17.99(British) isn't to bad, but I have to import it.  I was hoping for a
> deal like the last one, but I'm not holding my breath.  I imagine I have a
> couple more months before I need to order it.  This list is dead!! Everyone
> playing their new X-box and Nintendo GameCubes or something?  I'm getting my
> GameCube on Sunday since none of the stores here will sell them early....
>
> Jason
>
> "Too much knowlege never makes for simple decisions."
>                            Ghanima- Children of Dune
>



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Subject: Re: Murder in Lamut
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 23:39:00 -0000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Paul Whitby" <pjwhitby@lineone.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Murder in Lamut
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 23:39:00 -0000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

WRONG, it always (well nearly always) drops in price just before release in
the UK. They have to keep up with various "special offers" in the UK.

Paul


----- Original Message -----
From: "A Irving" <aignome@dingoblue.net.au>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Friday, November 16, 2001 11:22 PM
Subject: Re: Murder in Lamut


> last time the price dropped like the day it was released or something. The
> price only drops when the sales reach a certain point. I think it was the
> top 10 or top 50 of the month or something. Not too many people pre-order,
> but once it is released it may well drop.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Jason Martin <res0b95g@verizon.net>
> To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2001 6:54 AM
> Subject: Murder in Lamut
>
>
> > Does anyone know or think Amazon.uk will drop the price for Murder in
> Lamut?
> > $17.99(British) isn't to bad, but I have to import it.  I was hoping for a
> > deal like the last one, but I'm not holding my breath.  I imagine I have
> a
> > couple more months before I need to order it.  This list is dead!!
> Everyone
> > playing their new X-box and Nintendo GameCubes or something?  I'm getting
> my
> > GameCube on Sunday since none of the stores here will sell them early....
> >
> > Jason
> >
> > "Too much knowlege never makes for simple decisions."
> >                            Ghanima- Children of Dune
> >
>
>



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Subject: Re: Murder in Lamut
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 15:46:31 -0800
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Jason Martin" <res0b95g@verizon.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Murder in Lamut
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 15:46:31 -0800
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

When I got Honoured Enemy it was at 50% off and that was preorder, but I
also believe it was getting close to the release date.  So I will probably
wait another few more months and see what the price does.    Atleast I have
the option to order this way then going through a local book dealer. Gotta
love the internet...

Jason

"Too much knowlege never makes for simple decisions."
                           Ghanima- Children of Dune
----- Original Message -----
From: "A Irving" <aignome@dingoblue.net.au>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Friday, November 16, 2001 3:22 PM
Subject: Re: Murder in Lamut


> last time the price dropped like the day it was released or something. The
> price only drops when the sales reach a certain point. I think it was the
> top 10 or top 50 of the month or something. Not too many people pre-order,
> but once it is released it may well drop.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Jason Martin <res0b95g@verizon.net>
> To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2001 6:54 AM
> Subject: Murder in Lamut
>
>
> > Does anyone know or think Amazon.uk will drop the price for Murder in
> Lamut?
> > $17.99(British) isn't to bad, but I have to import it.  I was hoping for a
> > deal like the last one, but I'm not holding my breath.  I imagine I have
> a
> > couple more months before I need to order it.  This list is dead!!
> Everyone
> > playing their new X-box and Nintendo GameCubes or something?  I'm getting
> my
> > GameCube on Sunday since none of the stores here will sell them early....
> >
> > Jason
> >
> > "Too much knowlege never makes for simple decisions."
> >                            Ghanima- Children of Dune
> >
>



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From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Murder in Lamut
In-Reply-To: <002b01c16ef7$df61f180$632e7bd5@cyrdee>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 11:08:24 +1000 (GMT+1000)
From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Murder in Lamut
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


I find buying from my local bookstore always is cheaper than purchasing on
the net.


> WRONG, it always (well nearly always) drops in price just before release in
> the UK. They have to keep up with various "special offers" in the UK.
>
> Paul
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "A Irving" <aignome@dingoblue.net.au>
> To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> Sent: Friday, November 16, 2001 11:22 PM
> Subject: Re: Murder in Lamut
>
>
> > last time the price dropped like the day it was released or something. The
> > price only drops when the sales reach a certain point. I think it was the
> > top 10 or top 50 of the month or something. Not too many people pre-order,
> > but once it is released it may well drop.
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Jason Martin <res0b95g@verizon.net>
> > To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> > Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2001 6:54 AM
> > Subject: Murder in Lamut
> >
> >
> > > Does anyone know or think Amazon.uk will drop the price for Murder in
> > Lamut?
> > > $17.99(British) isn't to bad, but I have to import it.  I was hoping for
> a
> > > deal like the last one, but I'm not holding my breath.  I imagine I have
> > a
> > > couple more months before I need to order it.  This list is dead!!
> > Everyone
> > > playing their new X-box and Nintendo GameCubes or something?  I'm
> getting
> > my
> > > GameCube on Sunday since none of the stores here will sell them
> early....
> > >
> > > Jason
> > >
> > > "Too much knowlege never makes for simple decisions."
> > >                            Ghanima- Children of Dune
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

Thanks
Darragh
-=-=
www.iamtheporkfireman.com
[Email]: s356179@student.uq.edu.au [ICQ]: 114283262



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Subject: RE: Well done....
Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 18:03:06 -0000
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Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 18:03:06 -0000
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Nah - I've thought of a better one.

BJS

--------------

Whitespace is between the lines. Make of that what you will. REF.



-----Original Message-----
>From: Paul Whitby [mailto:pjwhitby@lineone.net]
>Sent: 16 November 2001 22:46
>To: FEISTFANS-L
>Subject: Well done....
>
>
>Probably OT, I don't care, but that is one of the best sig's I have seen for
>quite a while. Wheres it from ?
>
>Paul
>
>>
>> De-lurking for a moment..
>>
>> I haven't seen that for a while. :-)
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>>
>> Jon
>>
>> Relax! Take life as it comes, you can't chase the sun, you can't race the
>wind
>>

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From: Robert S Evans <roevans@linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L'" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Well done....
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Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 13:49:41 -0800 (PST)
From: Robert S Evans <roevans@linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L'" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Well done....
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On Sat, 17 Nov 2001 lists@bjs.org.uk wrote:

> Nah - I've thought of a better one.
> 
> BJS
> 
> --------------
> 
> Whitespace is between the lines. Make of that what you will. REF.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Paul Whitby [mailto:pjwhitby@lineone.net]
> 
> Probably OT, I don't care, but that is one of the best sig's I have seen for
> quite a while. Wheres it from ?
> 
> Paul
> 
> >
> > De-lurking for a moment..
> >
> > I haven't seen that for a while. :-)
> >
> > Cheers
> >
> >
> > Jon
> >
> > Relax! Take life as it comes, you can't chase the sun, you can't race the
> wind

Sounds like a go-getter trying to get the competition to stay on the
sidelines.

Bob



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From: "John Jeffries" <johncjeffries@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Honored Enemy
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Just finished reading it, must say that I enjoyed it alot.  Thanks to both 
authors for a great read!


John

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp



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Subject: Re: Murder in Lamut, Fantus 
Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2001 15:41:38 -0800
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From: "kevin" <kevykev@sbcglobal.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Murder in Lamut, Fantus 
Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2001 15:41:38 -0800
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I also wondered about Fantus after William died.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Andrew Scott" <a.sc0tt@home.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2001 7:22 PM
Subject: Re: Murder in Lamut


> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Raymond Feist" <raymond@bittersea.com>
> >
> > The only character from the Riftwar you see in Murder in LaMut is Earl
> > Vandross.  OK, so there's a cameo by Fantus.
> >
> > Best, R.E.F.
> 
> That reminds me, was fantus ever killed off or is he still alive after
> SoaBC?
> 
> 
> 



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From: "Jason Martin" <res0b95g@verizon.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: OT:  Video Games..
Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 10:03:27 -0800
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Ok, just picked up the Nintendo GameCube on Sunday and have Star Wars Rogue
Leader 2.  If you are a fan of shooters and love Star Wars then you owe it
to yourself to go and rent or buy this system.  This is the best Star Wars
game I have ever played.  I swear the graphics are so good you really do
feel like you are in the movie..  Graphics and sound are Top notch. Just
wished I had a Pro Logic 2 reciever so I can get more surround from the
games since it can do PL2, but it sill sounds pretty good in PL.

Jason

"Too much knowlege never makes for simple decisions."
                           Ghanima- Children of Dune



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Subject: Re: Murder in Lamut, Fantus 
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From: Valheru22@aol.com
Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 13:50:34 EST
Subject: Re: Murder in Lamut, Fantus 
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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In a message dated 11/18/2001 3:55:06 PM Pacific Standard Time, 
kevykev@sbcglobal.net writes:


> I also wondered about Fantus after William died.
> 

Dammit dude put a spoiler alert thanks for telling me he dies! That really 
helps!

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From: "James Culshaw" <culshaja@hotmail.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Kelewan Geography
Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 19:53:14 -0000
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Hi,

does anyone know the names of the continents on Kelewan, and also how they
sit in relation to each other?

James :-)



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From: "Grinim" <Grinim@home.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Kelewan Geography
Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 15:35:57 -0500
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Grinim" <Grinim@home.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Kelewan Geography
Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 15:35:57 -0500
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Here is a link to an Unoffical Atlas of the worlds of REF.  Seems like
they have tried to collect a lot of the info together great to look at.
WARNING:  Some of the maps are rather large.  Dialupers may have
troubles =)


http://www.shoalcreek.com/feist/maps.htm

Chad
-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of James Culshaw
>Sent: November 19, 2001 2:53 PM
>To: FEISTFANS-L
>Subject: Kelewan Geography
>
>Hi,
>
>does anyone know the names of the continents on Kelewan, and also how
>they
>sit in relation to each other?
>
>James :-)
>


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From: John <john@crydee.com>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 20:21:40 +0000
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: John <john@crydee.com>
Subject: Re: Kelewan Geography
User-Agent: Turnpike/6.00-U (<x5sqXV$6+zj$GDJXMMY4QwhIW3>)
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James Culshaw <culshaja@hotmail.com> writes
>Hi,
>
>does anyone know the names of the continents on Kelewan, and also how they
>sit in relation to each other?
>
>James :-)
>
>
You could try Ralph's maps, they may help

www.elvandar.com
-- 
John

john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.

Raymond E Feist Ring
http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm



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Hi,

could someone tell me if Kevin is coming back in the Mistress of the 
Empire or is he away from the series?

Thx
Adam



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From: "Theresa Roden" <lady_hoby@hotmail.com>
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Why, do you want us to spoil it for you?
Theresa


>From: Szilágyi Ádám <AnWar@freestart.hu>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
>Subject: Question about Mistress of the Empire
>Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 22:04:55 +0100
>
>Hi,
>
>could someone tell me if Kevin is coming back in the Mistress of the
>Empire or is he away from the series?
>
>Thx
>Adam
>


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 22:50:41 +0100
From: Szilágyi Ádám <AnWar@freestart.hu>
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I read it already but that was a long time ago and I definitely do not 
remember or mix it up with other books. That comes if you read the 
series in three different languages :)

Adam

Theresa Roden wrote:

> Why, do you want us to spoil it for you?
> Theresa
>
>
>> From: Szilágyi Ádám <AnWar@freestart.hu>
>> Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
>> Subject: Question about Mistress of the Empire
>> Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 22:04:55 +0100
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> could someone tell me if Kevin is coming back in the Mistress of the
>> Empire or is he away from the series?
>>
>> Thx
>> Adam
>>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at 
> http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>
>



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 07:45:37 +1000 (GMT+1000)
From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Question about Mistress of the Empire
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SPOILERS
s
p
o
i
l
e
r

s
p
a
c
e



> Hi,
>
> could someone tell me if Kevin is coming back in the Mistress of the
> Empire or is he away from the series?
>
> Thx
> Adam

He's not in the mains storyline, but makes a brief appearence.

Thanks
Darragh
-=-=
www.iamtheporkfireman.com
[Email]: s356179@student.uq.edu.au [ICQ]: 114283262



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From: "Kevin" <kevykev@sbcglobal.net>
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References: <171.42ea411.292aae7a@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Murder in Lamut, Fantus 
Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 14:35:21 -0800
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Kevin" <kevykev@sbcglobal.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Murder in Lamut, Fantus 
Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 14:35:21 -0800
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sorry about that. i thought everyone has read the serpentwar saga
since it's been out awhile.
>  ----- Original Message ----- 
>  From: Valheru22@aol.com 
>  To: FEISTFANS-L 
>  Sent: Monday, November 19, 2001 10:50 AM
>  Subject: Re: Murder in Lamut, Fantus 
>
>
>  In a message dated 11/18/2001 3:55:06 PM Pacific Standard Time, kevykev@sbcglobal.net writes: 
>
>
>
>    I also wondered about Fantus after William died. 
>
>
>
>  Dammit dude put a spoiler alert thanks for telling me he dies! That really helps! 

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Subject: Re: Murder in Lamut, Fantus 
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From: Valheru22@aol.com
Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 18:46:42 EST
Subject: Re: Murder in Lamut, Fantus 
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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In a message dated 11/19/01 5:55:09 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
kevykev@sbcglobal.net writes:


> sorry about that. i thought everyone has read the serpentwar saga since it's 
> been out awhile. 

Thats ok...I just got started ont hem this past summer. I am readiong them in 
order of there time so I am on Krondor the Assasins.
Chance

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From: Chad Keffer <chadkeffer@yahoo.com>
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Subject: Meditations on Middle-Earth
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 15:53:13 -0800 (PST)
From: Chad Keffer <chadkeffer@yahoo.com>
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Meditations on Middle-Earth
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Mr. Feist,

I just got done reading the commentary you wrote,
entitled "Our Grandfather" on J.R.R. Tolkien in the
new book, "Meditations on Middle-Earth"

I enjoyed the portion you wrote very much!  I
especially liked how you broke away from Tolkien
worshippers and didn't write the same gibberish as
most of them do.  Anyway, just wanted to let you know
I read it and thought you wrote a great (and accurate)
piece.

For those of you interested:

  "Meditations on Middle-Earth"
  Karen Haber, Editor
  St. Martin's Press - New York
  Writings Copyright 2001 by their respective authors.
  ISBN: 0-312-27536-6

New writings on the world of J.R.R. Tolkien by Orson
Scott Card, Ursula K. Le Guin, Raymond E. Feist, Terry
Pratchett, Charles de Lint, George R.R. Martin, and
more...

Take care, all -

Chad Keffer

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Find the one for you at Yahoo! Personals
http://personals.yahoo.com



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From: "Andy J Bradley" <dark_elf@btinternet.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Honoured Enemy
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 18:18:24 -0000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Andy J Bradley" <dark_elf@btinternet.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Honoured Enemy
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 18:18:24 -0000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Hi everyone,

This could be a spoiler for anyone who's not yet read Honoured enemy yet, so
i'll warn in advance!

I just finished reading the book, and have to say it was really very good!
I'm sure mr Feist has heard that allot, but it ranks up there with the
empire series, and your earlier work! I was  really surprised by Father
Corwins betrayal. I know that quite a few hints had been given by Dennis,
but he was such a nasty piece of work, i wasn't expecting him to kill any of
the men before they found him out! I really hoped he'd get his comeuppance
too!

I noticed the influence William Forstchen on Ray's writing almost strait
away. I think Janny's best addition in the Empire Series were the constantly
troublesome hairpins, on lady Mara's old nurse. That was a brilliant touch
and always made me chuckle, but with Honoured Enemy it was the details that
stood out the most. The way you described the setting, or a scene remembered
from the past, even the way the snow was falling! It was brilliant, so
thanks again Ray and W.F for a great read.


Ray, i don't suppose you'll be doing anything more with Janny Wurts? (I
apologise in advance if you've  answered that question a thousand times
already!)

Andy



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From: "Steven McCarthy" <steven@connect.ie>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Honoured Enemy
Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 01:26:10 -0000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Steven McCarthy" <steven@connect.ie>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Honoured Enemy
Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 01:26:10 -0000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Ever hear of spoiler space? A warning is no good if you can still read the
spoiler on the first page. Put about 15 lines of blank space before a
spoiler.

Hopefully someone who hasn't read the book will read this post before yours
and skip it.


S

P

O

I

L

E

R

 |
 |
 |
\ /


Steve
One of The Collective
http://learn.at/ahh
"Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then
do it." -- Lazarus Long

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Andy J Bradley
> Sent: 16 November 2001 18:18
> To: FEISTFANS-L
> Subject: Honoured Enemy
>
>
> Hi everyone,
>
> This could be a spoiler for anyone who's not yet read Honoured
> enemy yet, so
> i'll warn in advance!
>
> I just finished reading the book, and have to say it was really very good!
> I'm sure mr Feist has heard that allot, but it ranks up there with the
> empire series, and your earlier work! I was  really surprised by Father
> Corwins betrayal. I know that quite a few hints had been given by Dennis,
> but he was such a nasty piece of work, i wasn't expecting him to
> kill any of
> the men before they found him out! I really hoped he'd get his comeuppance
> too!
>
> I noticed the influence William Forstchen on Ray's writing almost strait
> away. I think Janny's best addition in the Empire Series were the
> constantly
> troublesome hairpins, on lady Mara's old nurse. That was a brilliant touch
> and always made me chuckle, but with Honoured Enemy it was the
> details that
> stood out the most. The way you described the setting, or a scene
> remembered
> from the past, even the way the snow was falling! It was brilliant, so
> thanks again Ray and W.F for a great read.
>
>
> Ray, i don't suppose you'll be doing anything more with Janny Wurts? (I
> apologise in advance if you've  answered that question a thousand times
> already!)
>
> Andy
>
>
>

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From: Allan Mills <milla@css.com.au>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" (FEISTFANS-L) <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Honoured Enemy
Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 12:27:07 +1100
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*** EOOH ***
From: Allan Mills <milla@css.com.au>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" (FEISTFANS-L) <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Honoured Enemy
Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 12:27:07 +1100
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

 Steve, please check your e-mail settings. Your posting had .vcf file
attachment which contains your personal info.

 Allan

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Steven McCarthy [mailto:steven@connect.ie]
> Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2001 12:26 PM
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Subject: RE: Honoured Enemy
> 
> 
> Ever hear of spoiler space? A warning is no good if you can 
> still read the
> spoiler on the first page. Put about 15 lines of blank space before a
> spoiler.
> 
> Hopefully someone who hasn't read the book will read this 
> post before yours
> and skip it.
> 
> 
> S
> 
> P
> 
> O
> 
> I
> 
> L
> 
> E
> 
> R
> 
>  |
>  |
>  |
> \ /
> 
> 
> Steve
> One of The Collective
> http://learn.at/ahh
> "Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be 
> done and why. Then
> do it." -- Lazarus Long
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Andy J Bradley
> > Sent: 16 November 2001 18:18
> > To: FEISTFANS-L
> > Subject: Honoured Enemy
> >
> >
> > Hi everyone,
> >
> > This could be a spoiler for anyone who's not yet read Honoured
> > enemy yet, so
> > i'll warn in advance!
> >
> > I just finished reading the book, and have to say it was 
> really very good!
> > I'm sure mr Feist has heard that allot, but it ranks up 
> there with the
> > empire series, and your earlier work! I was  really 
> surprised by Father
> > Corwins betrayal. I know that quite a few hints had been 
> given by Dennis,
> > but he was such a nasty piece of work, i wasn't expecting him to
> > kill any of
> > the men before they found him out! I really hoped he'd get 
> his comeuppance
> > too!
> >
> > I noticed the influence William Forstchen on Ray's writing 
> almost strait
> > away. I think Janny's best addition in the Empire Series were the
> > constantly
> > troublesome hairpins, on lady Mara's old nurse. That was a 
> brilliant touch
> > and always made me chuckle, but with Honoured Enemy it was the
> > details that
> > stood out the most. The way you described the setting, or a scene
> > remembered
> > from the past, even the way the snow was falling! It was 
> brilliant, so
> > thanks again Ray and W.F for a great read.
> >
> >
> > Ray, i don't suppose you'll be doing anything more with 
> Janny Wurts? (I
> > apologise in advance if you've  answered that question a 
> thousand times
> > already!)
> >
> > Andy
> >
> >
> >
> 



1,,
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From: "Steven McCarthy" <steven@connect.ie>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Honoured Enemy
Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 01:35:09 -0000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Steven McCarthy" <steven@connect.ie>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Honoured Enemy
Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 01:35:09 -0000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Oops.

I thought this address was excluded from my card. It is now. Thanks.


Steve
One of The Collective
http://learn.at/ahh
"Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then
do it." -- Lazarus Long

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Allan Mills
> Sent: 20 November 2001 01:27
> To: 'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu' (FEISTFANS-L)
> Subject: RE: Honoured Enemy
>
>
>  Steve, please check your e-mail settings. Your posting had .vcf file
> attachment which contains your personal info.
>
>  Allan
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Steven McCarthy [mailto:steven@connect.ie]
> > Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2001 12:26 PM
> > To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > Subject: RE: Honoured Enemy
> >
> >
> > Ever hear of spoiler space? A warning is no good if you can
> > still read the
> > spoiler on the first page. Put about 15 lines of blank space before a
> > spoiler.
> >
> > Hopefully someone who hasn't read the book will read this
> > post before yours
> > and skip it.
> >
> >
> > S
> >
> > P
> >
> > O
> >
> > I
> >
> > L
> >
> > E
> >
> > R
> >
> >  |
> >  |
> >  |
> > \ /
> >
> >
> > Steve
> > One of The Collective
> > http://learn.at/ahh
> > "Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be
> > done and why. Then
> > do it." -- Lazarus Long
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > > [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Andy J Bradley
> > > Sent: 16 November 2001 18:18
> > > To: FEISTFANS-L
> > > Subject: Honoured Enemy
> > >
> > >
> > > Hi everyone,
> > >
> > > This could be a spoiler for anyone who's not yet read Honoured
> > > enemy yet, so
> > > i'll warn in advance!
> > >
> > > I just finished reading the book, and have to say it was
> > really very good!
> > > I'm sure mr Feist has heard that allot, but it ranks up
> > there with the
> > > empire series, and your earlier work! I was  really
> > surprised by Father
> > > Corwins betrayal. I know that quite a few hints had been
> > given by Dennis,
> > > but he was such a nasty piece of work, i wasn't expecting him to
> > > kill any of
> > > the men before they found him out! I really hoped he'd get
> > his comeuppance
> > > too!
> > >
> > > I noticed the influence William Forstchen on Ray's writing
> > almost strait
> > > away. I think Janny's best addition in the Empire Series were the
> > > constantly
> > > troublesome hairpins, on lady Mara's old nurse. That was a
> > brilliant touch
> > > and always made me chuckle, but with Honoured Enemy it was the
> > > details that
> > > stood out the most. The way you described the setting, or a scene
> > > remembered
> > > from the past, even the way the snow was falling! It was
> > brilliant, so
> > > thanks again Ray and W.F for a great read.
> > >
> > >
> > > Ray, i don't suppose you'll be doing anything more with
> > Janny Wurts? (I
> > > apologise in advance if you've  answered that question a
> > thousand times
> > > already!)
> > >
> > > Andy
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>



1,,
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 18:48:03 -0800
Subject: Re: Honoured Enemy
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Friday, November 16, 2001, at 10:18 AM, Andy J Bradley wrote:

> Hi everyone,
>
> This could be a spoiler for anyone who's not yet read Honoured enemy 
> yet, so
> i'll warn in advance!
>
> I just finished reading the book, and have to say it was really very 
> good!
> I'm sure mr Feist has heard that allot, but it ranks up there with the
> empire series, and your earlier work! I was  really surprised by Father
> Corwins betrayal. I know that quite a few hints had been given by 
> Dennis,
> but he was such a nasty piece of work, i wasn't expecting him to kill 
> any of
> the men before they found him out! I really hoped he'd get his 
> comeuppance
> too!
>
> I noticed the influence William Forstchen on Ray's writing almost strait
> away. I think Janny's best addition in the Empire Series were the 
> constantly
> troublesome hairpins, on lady Mara's old nurse. That was a brilliant 
> touch
> and always made me chuckle, but with Honoured Enemy it was the details 
> that
> stood out the most. The way you described the setting, or a scene 
> remembered
> from the past, even the way the snow was falling! It was brilliant, so
> thanks again Ray and W.F for a great read.
>
>
> Ray, i don't suppose you'll be doing anything more with Janny Wurts? (I
> apologise in advance if you've  answered that question a thousand times
> already!)
>
> Andy
>
>
>
>
\I don't know.  Janny and I have talked about it from time to time.  I 
just chatted with her on the phone Sunday, when she gave me a jingle.

Maybe one of these days.  Both of us are awful busy.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 15:13:46 +1000 (GMT+1000)
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From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Meditations on Middle-Earth
In-Reply-To: <20011119235313.12703.qmail@web13407.mail.yahoo.com>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 15:13:46 +1000 (GMT+1000)
From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Meditations on Middle-Earth
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


I sthis available in normal book stores, or just online?

> Mr. Feist,
>
> I just got done reading the commentary you wrote,
> entitled "Our Grandfather" on J.R.R. Tolkien in the
> new book, "Meditations on Middle-Earth"
>
> I enjoyed the portion you wrote very much!  I
> especially liked how you broke away from Tolkien
> worshippers and didn't write the same gibberish as
> most of them do.  Anyway, just wanted to let you know
> I read it and thought you wrote a great (and accurate)
> piece.
>
> For those of you interested:
>
>   "Meditations on Middle-Earth"
>   Karen Haber, Editor
>   St. Martin's Press - New York
>   Writings Copyright 2001 by their respective authors.
>   ISBN: 0-312-27536-6
>
> New writings on the world of J.R.R. Tolkien by Orson
> Scott Card, Ursula K. Le Guin, Raymond E. Feist, Terry
> Pratchett, Charles de Lint, George R.R. Martin, and
> more...
>
> Take care, all -
>
> Chad Keffer
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Find the one for you at Yahoo! Personals
> http://personals.yahoo.com
>
>

Thanks
Darragh
-=-=
www.iamtheporkfireman.com
[Email]: s356179@student.uq.edu.au [ICQ]: 114283262



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From: Brad_A_Krahe@allegiance.com.au
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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 16:23:15 +1100
Subject: Re: Meditations on Middle-Earth
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I asked Borders in Victoria and they couldn't give me a Australian release
date :(

Regards,

Brad Krahe
SAP Business & Support Consultant
Allegiance Systems



>
>Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au> on 20/11/2001 16:13:46
>
>Please respond to FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>
>To:   FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
>cc:    (bcc: Brad A Krahe/HCS)
>Subject:  Re: Meditations on Middle-Earth
>
>
>
>
>
>I sthis available in normal book stores, or just online?
>
>> Mr. Feist,
>>
>> I just got done reading the commentary you wrote,
>> entitled "Our Grandfather" on J.R.R. Tolkien in the
>> new book, "Meditations on Middle-Earth"
>>
>> I enjoyed the portion you wrote very much!  I
>> especially liked how you broke away from Tolkien
>> worshippers and didn't write the same gibberish as
>> most of them do.  Anyway, just wanted to let you know
>> I read it and thought you wrote a great (and accurate)
>> piece.
>>
>> For those of you interested:
>>
>>   "Meditations on Middle-Earth"
>>   Karen Haber, Editor
>>   St. Martin's Press - New York
>>   Writings Copyright 2001 by their respective authors.
>>   ISBN: 0-312-27536-6
>>
>> New writings on the world of J.R.R. Tolkien by Orson
>> Scott Card, Ursula K. Le Guin, Raymond E. Feist, Terry
>> Pratchett, Charles de Lint, George R.R. Martin, and
>> more...
>>
>> Take care, all -
>>
>> Chad Keffer
>>
>> __________________________________________________
>> Do You Yahoo!?
>> Find the one for you at Yahoo! Personals
>> http://personals.yahoo.com
>>
>>
>
>Thanks
>Darragh
>-=-=
>www.iamtheporkfireman.com
>[Email]: s356179@student.uq.edu.au [ICQ]: 114283262

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From: "Chad Keffer" <feistfan@chadkeffer.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
References: <Pine.OSF.4.30.0111201513310.31618-100000@student.uq.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Meditations on Middle-Earth
Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 23:58:03 -0600
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Chad Keffer" <feistfan@chadkeffer.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Meditations on Middle-Earth
Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 23:58:03 -0600
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Darragh,

Actually, I first saw the book in our local Barnes & Noble, so Yes, it is
available in normal bookstores.

- Chad

----- Original Message -----
>From: "Darragh Murray" <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
>To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
>Sent: Monday, November 19, 2001 11:13 PM
>Subject: Re: Meditations on Middle-Earth
>
>
>
>I sthis available in normal book stores, or just online?
>
>> Mr. Feist,
>>
>> I just got done reading the commentary you wrote,
>> entitled "Our Grandfather" on J.R.R. Tolkien in the
>> new book, "Meditations on Middle-Earth"
>>
>> I enjoyed the portion you wrote very much!  I
>> especially liked how you broke away from Tolkien
>> worshippers and didn't write the same gibberish as
>> most of them do.  Anyway, just wanted to let you know
>> I read it and thought you wrote a great (and accurate)
>> piece.
>>
>> For those of you interested:
>>
>>   "Meditations on Middle-Earth"
>>   Karen Haber, Editor
>>   St. Martin's Press - New York
>>   Writings Copyright 2001 by their respective authors.
>>   ISBN: 0-312-27536-6
>>
>> New writings on the world of J.R.R. Tolkien by Orson
>> Scott Card, Ursula K. Le Guin, Raymond E. Feist, Terry
>> Pratchett, Charles de Lint, George R.R. Martin, and
>> more...
>>
>> Take care, all -
>>
>> Chad Keffer
>>
>> __________________________________________________
>> Do You Yahoo!?
>> Find the one for you at Yahoo! Personals
>> http://personals.yahoo.com
>>
>>
>
>Thanks
>Darragh
>-=-=
>www.iamtheporkfireman.com
>[Email]: s356179@student.uq.edu.au [ICQ]: 114283262
>
>

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Subject: Re: Honoured Enemy
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Stephen Forster" <sjforster@bigpond.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Honoured Enemy
Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 18:51:51 +1000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Hi Ray

Correct me if I am wrong, especially if I am wrong, but have you not in the
past said something to the effect of

"Janny and I have no plans  to ever work together again, it is not going to
happen"

I hope things have changed ... but if not that's life.

Stephen.
Who is desparately trying to get his wife to read your books ... but she
thinks fantasy is for kids.

> \I don't know.  Janny and I have talked about it from time to time.  I
> just chatted with her on the phone Sunday, when she gave me a jingle.
>
> Maybe one of these days.  Both of us are awful busy.
>
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
>
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
> stupidity.
>



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From: "James Culshaw" <culshaja@hotmail.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
References: <000001c17139$cb542b10$017ba8c0@cr572715a>
Subject: Re: Kelewan Geography
Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 08:50:32 -0000
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From: "James Culshaw" <culshaja@hotmail.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Kelewan Geography
Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 08:50:32 -0000
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Hi,

this doesn't answer what I am after. I need the continent names and their
positioning for Kelewan. For Midkemia this is Triagia, Winet, and Novindus.

James :-)

----- Original Message -----
From: "Grinim" <Grinim@home.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2001 8:35 PM
Subject: RE: Kelewan Geography


> Here is a link to an Unoffical Atlas of the worlds of REF.  Seems like
> they have tried to collect a lot of the info together great to look at.
> WARNING:  Some of the maps are rather large.  Dialupers may have
> troubles =)
>
>
> http://www.shoalcreek.com/feist/maps.htm
>
> Chad
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of James Culshaw
> Sent: November 19, 2001 2:53 PM
> To: FEISTFANS-L
> Subject: Kelewan Geography
>
> Hi,
>
> does anyone know the names of the continents on Kelewan, and also how
> they
> sit in relation to each other?
>
> James :-)
>
>



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 <003501c171a0$9959f4c0$be5e36cb@singup>
Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 19:58:07 +1100
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From: Anestis Kozakis <kenosti@labyrinth.net.au>
Subject: Re: Honoured Enemy
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Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 19:58:07 +1100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Anestis Kozakis <kenosti@labyrinth.net.au>
Subject: Re: Honoured Enemy
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Ray said :

>  > \I don't know.  Janny and I have talked about it from time to time.  I
>  > just chatted with her on the phone Sunday, when she gave me a jingle.
>  >
>  > Maybe one of these days.  Both of us are awful busy.
>  >
>  > Best, R.E.F.


At 18:51 +1000 2001/11/20, Stephen Forster wrote:
>Hi Ray
>
>Correct me if I am wrong, especially if I am wrong, but have you not in the
>past said something to the effect of
>
>"Janny and I have no plans  to ever work together again, it is not going to
>happen"
>
>I hope things have changed ... but if not that's life.

Ray never said such a thing.

Ray said he and Janny would never do another Kelewan book.

That doesn't mean they won't do another type of book.

>Stephen.

Anestis.

-- 
kenosti@labyrinth.net.au
"A complete list of this film's associate producers
  is available upon request."
    -- In End Credits for "State and Main"



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From: Nathan <nathan@irish4ever.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Kelewan Geography
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 07:12:31 -0800 (PST)
From: Nathan <nathan@irish4ever.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Kelewan Geography
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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There aren't better maps than available from:

http://www.shoalcreek.com/feist/maps.htm

I can only describe what I see there.
1. Northern unnamed continent with the Tsuranuanni Empire.
2. Eastern unnamed continent with Thuril confederation.
3. Southern Lost Land of Tsubar (possibly the only name of the continent on Kelewan).

Regards
Father Nathan

_____________________________________________________________
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Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 07:56:35 -0800
Subject: Re: Honoured Enemy
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 07:56:35 -0800
Subject: Re: Honoured Enemy
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Tuesday, November 20, 2001, at 12:51 AM, Stephen Forster wrote:

> Hi Ray
>
> Correct me if I am wrong, especially if I am wrong, but have you not in 
> the
> past said something to the effect of
>
> "Janny and I have no plans  to ever work together again, it is not 
> going to
> happen"
>
> I hope things have changed ... but if not that's life.
>
> Stephen.
> Who is desparately trying to get his wife to read your books ... but she
> thinks fantasy is for kids.
>

Read the two statements together and they are not mutually exclusive:

Janny and I have talked about it.

Janny and I have no plans to work together again.

I don't recall ever have said we'd never work together.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Subject: Re: Honoured Enemy
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Subject: Re: Honoured Enemy
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On Tuesday, November 20, 2001, at 7:56 AM, Raymond Feist wrote:
>
> On Tuesday, November 20, 2001, at 12:51 AM, Stephen Forster wrote:
>
> > Hi Ray
> >
> > Correct me if I am wrong, especially if I am wrong, but have you not in
> > the
> > past said something to the effect of
> >
> > "Janny and I have no plans  to ever work together again, it is not
> > going to
> > happen"
> >
> I don't recall ever have said we'd never work together.
>
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
>
If I remember correctly, when Ray said, "it is not going to happen" he was
referring to a specific question about writing more books set in Kelewan
about the events Pug saw on the tower.

CBC



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Subject: Krondor
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Solaar" <Jody@tesco.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Krondor
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 20:04:21 -0000
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Hmmm... I haven't posted a message on this board for over two years so
it's about time I did something.

I've just bought the Krondor trilogy (Betrayal, Assassins, and Tear of
the Gods).

Anyone got any comments on them without giving any of the plots away?? ;o)

Solaar

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Subject: Re: Kelewan Geography
Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 17:56:37 -0600
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From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Kelewan Geography
Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 17:56:37 -0600
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Speaking of Ralph's Maps...where is he?  I haven't seen him (or
several of our other regulars) post in quite some time.

-James

----- Original Message -----
From: "Nathan" <nathan@irish4ever.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2001 9:12 AM
Subject: Re: Kelewan Geography


> There aren't better maps than available from:
>
> http://www.shoalcreek.com/feist/maps.htm
>
> I can only describe what I see there.
> 1. Northern unnamed continent with the Tsuranuanni Empire.
> 2. Eastern unnamed continent with Thuril confederation.
> 3. Southern Lost Land of Tsubar (possibly the only name of the
> continent on Kelewan).
>
> Regards
> Father Nathan
>
> _____________________________________________________________
> Get your Free, Permanent, and Private Irish Email Today!
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From: Terry Corbett <macros102@yahoo.com>
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I'm starting on the Empire Trilogy, so I was wondering
if you guys had any comments without spoilers. 
Thanks.

Terry

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From: Terry Corbett <macros102@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Krondor
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 07:21:50 -0800 (PST)
From: Terry Corbett <macros102@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Krondor
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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That reminds me, will the last 2 Krondor books have a
US publisher when they are completed?

Terry

--- Solaar <Jody@tesco.net> wrote:
> Hmmm... I haven't posted a message on this board for
> over two years so it's about time I did something.
> 
> I've just bought the Krondor trilogy (Betrayal,
> Assassins, and Tear of the Gods).
> 
> Anyone got any comments on them without giving any
> of the plots away?? ;o)
> 
> Solaar
> 


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Subject: Re: Empire Series
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 17:14:47 +0100
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From: "Erik Hagen" <Erik_Hagen@zonnet.nl>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Empire Series
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 17:14:47 +0100
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Best series ever. :-)

GreetZ!
Erik

----- Oorspronkelijk bericht ----- 
Van: Terry Corbett <macros102@yahoo.com>
Aan: Feist <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Verzonden: woensdag 21 november 2001 16:26
Onderwerp: Empire Series


> I'm starting on the Empire Trilogy, so I was wondering
> if you guys had any comments without spoilers. 
> Thanks.
> 
> Terry



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From: "Donal K. Fellows" <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk>
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In-reply-to: <20011121152630.13842.qmail@web20304.mail.yahoo.com> (message
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Donal K. Fellows" <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Empire Series
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 16:03:19 +0000
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Terry Corbett <macros102@yahoo.com>
> I'm starting on the Empire Trilogy, so I was wondering if you guys
> had any comments without spoilers.  Thanks.

Umm...  Happy reading!

Donal.
-- 
Donal K. Fellows, Department of Computer Science, University of Manchester, UK.
(work) fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk     Tel: +44-161-275-6137  (preferred email addr.)
(home) donal@ugglan.demon.co.uk  Tel: +44-1274-401017   Mobile: +44-7957-298955
http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~fellowsd/  (Don't quote my .sig; I've seen it before!)



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Subject: Re: Kelewan Geography
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 10:29:46 -0600
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Kelewan Geography
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 10:29:46 -0600
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Just out of curiosity...Why?

-James

----- Original Message -----
>
>Hi,
>
>this doesn't answer what I am after. I need the continent names and
>their positioning for Kelewan. For Midkemia this is Triagia, Winet,
>and Novindus.
>
>James :-)
>

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Subject: Re: Kelewan Geography
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*** EOOH ***
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From: "James Culshaw" <culshaja@hotmail.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Kelewan Geography
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 17:24:48 -0000
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For my website http://dotnet.securedomains.com/krondor/index.aspx

James :-)

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 4:29 PM
Subject: Re: Kelewan Geography


> Just out of curiosity...Why?
> 
> -James
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> 
> Hi,
> 
> this doesn't answer what I am after. I need the continent names and
> their positioning for Kelewan. For Midkemia this is Triagia, Winet,
> and Novindus.
> 
> James :-)
> 
> 
> 



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From: "Kevin" <kevykev@sbcglobal.net>
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References: <000001c17139$cb542b10$017ba8c0@cr572715a> <OE47OVbhhoSntjcZCif0000c9f1@hotmail.com> <002901c172a9$bccd5fa0$d2ea79a5@oemcomputer> <OE45X580OPEoPx7ToXL0000d032@hotmail.com>
Subject: Your Website
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 10:33:10 -0800
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Kevin" <kevykev@sbcglobal.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Your Website
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 10:33:10 -0800
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I was reading about Ashen-Shugar on your site.I do remember a Valheru titled
Monarch Of  The Black Lake(Black Lake translates to "Moraelin"). Still
checkin' your site out- I just got here:)
----- Original Message -----
From: "James Culshaw" <culshaja@hotmail.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 9:24 AM
Subject: Re: Kelewan Geography


> For my website http://dotnet.securedomains.com/krondor/index.aspx
>
> James :-)
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
> To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 4:29 PM
> Subject: Re: Kelewan Geography
>
>
> > Just out of curiosity...Why?
> >
> > -James
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > this doesn't answer what I am after. I need the continent names and
> > their positioning for Kelewan. For Midkemia this is Triagia, Winet,
> > and Novindus.
> >
> > James :-)
> >
> >
> >
>



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Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 23:28:08 -0800
X-PH: V4.1@cornell.edu (Cornell Modified) 
From: Max Haghighi <maxhag@pacbell.net>
Subject: OT: DVD Player Question For Ray or Anyone
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Message-id: <KOEDKBGOAPLLKBCHJMBFKEOFCCAA.maxhag@pacbell.net>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 23:28:08 -0800
From: Max Haghighi <maxhag@pacbell.net>
Subject: OT: DVD Player Question For Ray or Anyone
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Ray:

Since you are the DVD guru, plus some others on the list, I wanted to know
which DVD player you recommend.  I am willing to spend up to $500 or so.

Thank you for the help and sorry about the OT.

Happy Thanksgiving to all!!

Max



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Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 07:50:14 -0800
Subject: Re: OT: DVD Player Question For Ray or Anyone
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 07:50:14 -0800
Subject: Re: OT: DVD Player Question For Ray or Anyone
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Wednesday, November 21, 2001, at 11:28 PM, Max Haghighi wrote:

> Ray:
>
> Since you are the DVD guru, plus some others on the list, I wanted to 
> know
> which DVD player you recommend.  I am willing to spend up to $500 or so.
>
> Thank you for the help and sorry about the OT.
>
> Happy Thanksgiving to all!!
>
> Max
>
>
>
>
Max, at this point, there are a lot of very good players under $500.  I 
have Proscan, Sony, and Pioneer in my collection.  The only one over 
$500 is the Pioneer, because it's an Elite.

Pick a brand that you like, but if you can get one for the price, get a 
"progressive output" DVD.  In the not two distant future you're going to 
be buying a new TV with component inputs and the progressive scans will 
put your DVD's at 480p lines of resolution, which is the low end of HDTV.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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From: Valheru22@aol.com
Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 14:29:00 EST
Subject: Happy Thanksgiving
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Happy Thanksgiving to every one on the list!
 -Chance

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From: Allan Mills <milla@css.com.au>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" (FEISTFANS-L) <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Janny (was re: Honoured Enemy)
Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2001 10:15:18 +1100
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*** EOOH ***
From: Allan Mills <milla@css.com.au>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" (FEISTFANS-L) <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Janny (was re: Honoured Enemy)
Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2001 10:15:18 +1100
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 Ray is recently divorced anyway so that's hardly a problem for him anymore.
:)

 Also considering the number of books he has on his schedule at the moment I
can't see any partnership with Janny to be in the near future.

 Allan

> -----Original Message-----
> From: lists@bjs.org.uk [mailto:lists@bjs.org.uk]
> Sent: Friday, November 23, 2001 10:10 AM
> To: 'FEISTFANS-L'
> Subject: Re: Janny (was re: Honoured Enemy)
> 
> 
> I thought I saw somewhere "our respective partners would divorce us".
> 
> Not that I wish to put a downer on the idea.
> 
> BJS
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Raymond Feist
> Sent: 20 November 2001 15:57
> Subject: Re: Honoured Enemy
> 
> 
> Read the two statements together and they are not mutually exclusive:
> 
> Janny and I have talked about it.
> 
> Janny and I have no plans to work together again.
> 
> I don't recall ever have said we'd never work together.
> 
> Best, R.E.F.
> 



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I thought I saw somewhere "our respective partners would divorce us".

Not that I wish to put a downer on the idea.

BJS

-----Original Message-----
>From: Raymond Feist
>Sent: 20 November 2001 15:57
>Subject: Re: Honoured Enemy
>
>
>Read the two statements together and they are not mutually exclusive:
>
>Janny and I have talked about it.
>
>Janny and I have no plans to work together again.
>
>I don't recall ever have said we'd never work together.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>

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Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 15:58:59 -0800
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From: Max Haghighi <maxhag@pacbell.net>
Subject: RE: OT: DVD Player Question For Ray or Anyone
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 15:58:59 -0800
From: Max Haghighi <maxhag@pacbell.net>
Subject: RE: OT: DVD Player Question For Ray or Anyone
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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Thank you Ray!

One last question, I promise. Is there a difference between "direct
progressive scan" and "digital direct progressive scan"?


Max
-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Raymond Feist
>Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2001 7:50 AM
>To: FEISTFANS-L
>Subject: Re: OT: DVD Player Question For Ray or Anyone
>
>
>
>On Wednesday, November 21, 2001, at 11:28 PM, Max Haghighi wrote:
>
>> Ray:
>>
>> Since you are the DVD guru, plus some others on the list, I wanted to
>> know
>> which DVD player you recommend.  I am willing to spend up to $500 or so.
>>
>> Thank you for the help and sorry about the OT.
>>
>> Happy Thanksgiving to all!!
>>
>> Max
>>
>>
>>
>>
>Max, at this point, there are a lot of very good players under $500.  I
>have Proscan, Sony, and Pioneer in my collection.  The only one over
>$500 is the Pioneer, because it's an Elite.
>
>Pick a brand that you like, but if you can get one for the price, get a
>"progressive output" DVD.  In the not two distant future you're going to
>be buying a new TV with component inputs and the progressive scans will
>put your DVD's at 480p lines of resolution, which is the low end of HDTV.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
>stupidity.
>


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Subject: Delurking for the 1st time, and some Qs for Ray
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Hi everyone,

Ray, this probably sounds a bit lame, but your books have helped me through
what has probably been the worst year of my life so far... They allowed me
to escape for hours at a time, as well as being damn good stories. So
thanks.

What I want to ask you is, did you change the name of the mad elves from
Glamredhel to Glamedhel, or am I just imagining things? (I don't have the
books with me at the moment)
And also, the Tsurani goddess Sibi, have you renamed her Silbi? (I refer to
Honoured Enemy)
These may sound like pedantic nitpickerish questions, but I am interested in
what happens if one creates a work and then decides to change a detail in
subsequent works for whatever reason.
In case Im not making myself clear, in Star Trek when they redesigned the
Borg and the Klingons, from that day forward every one of them looked like
the redesigned version, and the audience were expected to accept that no
"redesign" took place, and that things had always been that way.

Anyway, I'm not nitpicking your work, Im just interested in the craft of
writing (Im a writer myself), especially the little things like this for
some bizzare reason.

thanks -
Ian



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From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Delurking for the 1st time, and some Qs for Ray
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Ian Robinson wrote:
> 
> What I want to ask you is, did you change the name of the mad elves from
> Glamredhel to Glamedhel, or am I just imagining things? (I don't have the
> books with me at the moment)
> And also, the Tsurani goddess Sibi, have you renamed her Silbi? (I refer to
> Honoured Enemy)

Typos are not out of the realm of possibility. I must admit that I don't
recall reading any change in name for Sibi in Honoured Enemy or
anything.

I did notice a lack of consistency in the Serpentwar Saga when it came
to Duke James's grandons: they were listed as Jameson, but I saw it
typed alot as Jamison, along with a couple of other variations.


> In case Im not making myself clear, in Star Trek when they redesigned the
> Borg and the Klingons, from that day forward every one of them looked like
> the redesigned version, and the audience were expected to accept that no
> "redesign" took place, and that things had always been that way.

The Klingons are quite a unique situation, but the Borg basically follow
the same trend: the movies allow a much larger budget than the episodes.
There are probably other reasons as well... I heard that they're moving
toward doing more airbrushing than the way they used to things for stuff
like the Borg and all.

It has been said by Berman that, to paraphrase, if Roddenberry had the
budget back in the 60's, the Klingons would've had the "bumpy heads"
that they have had since ST: The Motion Picture. I think it's a rather
reasonable way of looking at things, all things considered.

Craig J. Ries



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> >
> > What I want to ask you is, did you change the name of the mad elves from
> > Glamredhel to Glamedhel, or am I just imagining things? (I don't have the
> > books with me at the moment)
> > And also, the Tsurani goddess Sibi, have you renamed her Silbi? (I refer to
> > Honoured Enemy)
>
> Typos are not out of the realm of possibility. I must admit that I don't
> recall reading any change in name for Sibi in Honoured Enemy or
> anything.
>
> I did notice a lack of consistency in the Serpentwar Saga when it came
> to Duke James's grandons: they were listed as Jameson, but I saw it
> typed alot as Jamison, along with a couple of other variations.
>
>
> > In case Im not making myself clear, in Star Trek when they redesigned the
> > Borg and the Klingons, from that day forward every one of them looked like
> > the redesigned version, and the audience were expected to accept that no
> > "redesign" took place, and that things had always been that way.
>
> The Klingons are quite a unique situation, but the Borg basically follow
> the same trend: the movies allow a much larger budget than the episodes.
> There are probably other reasons as well... I heard that they're moving
> toward doing more airbrushing than the way they used to things for stuff
> like the Borg and all.
>
> It has been said by Berman that, to paraphrase, if Roddenberry had the
> budget back in the 60's, the Klingons would've had the "bumpy heads"
> that they have had since ST: The Motion Picture. I think it's a rather
> reasonable way of looking at things, all things considered.
>
> Craig J. Ries
>
>

I agree with all your points, but assumed those weren't typos because I've
seen both ways of spelling both words on here as well as in the books...
What I'm really interested in is if an author decided to change the
spelling, colour, size, shape etc of any element in a book, after it has
been described differently before, because they have changed their mind, or
they decide that there is a way to describe it better. The reason I thought
the new spelling of Glamedhel might be the "correct" one, and not just a
typo is because all of the other elf races have a prefix followed by "edhel"
and these prefixes work on their own after a fashion... el, mor, etc all
sound like words, where as glamr doesn't really. Glam does however.

I'm not as interested in minutiae as it might appear! really! :) But I am
interested in fictional universes, and the creation of them, and the things
that make them seem real, or not. I love a good story, but when an artist
creates an entire universe it's amazing...

Anyway! If they really just typos, ignore my ramblings...

- Ian



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Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 19:57:53 -0800
Subject: Re: OT: DVD Player Question For Ray or Anyone
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 19:57:53 -0800
Subject: Re: OT: DVD Player Question For Ray or Anyone
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On Thursday, November 22, 2001, at 03:58 PM, Max Haghighi wrote:

> Thank you Ray!
>
> One last question, I promise. Is there a difference between "direct
> progressive scan" and "digital direct progressive scan"?
>

Yes.  You want "direct progressive scan."  Digital direct" is a chip 
driven "so-so" solution that gives you less quality.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 19:58:27 -0800
Subject: Re: Janny (was re: Honoured Enemy)
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Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 19:58:27 -0800
Subject: Re: Janny (was re: Honoured Enemy)
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On Thursday, November 22, 2001, at 03:10 PM, <lists@bjs.org.uk> wrote:

> I thought I saw somewhere "our respective partners would divorce us".
>
> Not that I wish to put a downer on the idea.
>

Said tongue in cheek.

Besides, in my case it's now academic.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 19:59:24 -0800
Subject: Re: Delurking for the 1st time, and some Qs for Ray
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Subject: Re: Delurking for the 1st time, and some Qs for Ray
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
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On Thursday, November 22, 2001, at 04:46 PM, Ian Robinson wrote:

> Hi everyone,
>
> Ray, this probably sounds a bit lame, but your books have helped me 
> through
> what has probably been the worst year of my life so far... They allowed 
> me
> to escape for hours at a time, as well as being damn good stories. So
> thanks.
>
> What I want to ask you is, did you change the name of the mad elves from
> Glamredhel to Glamedhel, or am I just imagining things? (I don't have 
> the
> books with me at the moment)
> And also, the Tsurani goddess Sibi, have you renamed her Silbi? (I 
> refer to
> Honoured Enemy)
> These may sound like pedantic nitpickerish questions, but I am 
> interested in
> what happens if one creates a work and then decides to change a detail 
> in
> subsequent works for whatever reason.
> In case Im not making myself clear, in Star Trek when they redesigned 
> the
> Borg and the Klingons, from that day forward every one of them looked 
> like
> the redesigned version, and the audience were expected to accept that no
> "redesign" took place, and that things had always been that way.
>
> Anyway, I'm not nitpicking your work, Im just interested in the craft of
> writing (Im a writer myself), especially the little things like this for
> some bizzare reason.
>
> thanks -
> Ian
>
>
>
>

It's Glamredhel.  And Sibi.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Subject: How many Holidays?
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From: "Jason Martin" <res0b95g@verizon.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: How many Holidays?
Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2001 16:49:29 -0800
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Not sure if this has been asked before?  How many Holidays so to speak are
in the kingdom?  I can only think of a few examples... One is the time of
choosing (not sure if this counts), the displaying of the Royal children
(which may or may not count, due to prince Nicky), and lastly Summer and
Winter Solisticle? For some reason the proper names escape me.  I was
thinking that the feast after the choosing in Magician sounds a lot like
Thanksgiving.... I know I'm still full from Thanksgiving still.  Anyone know
of any others I may have forgotten, or know the proper names?

Thanks,

Jason
"Too much knowlege never makes for simple decisions."
                           Ghanima- Children of Dune



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Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2001 03:19:15 +0200
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Paavo Kakko <joeru@mbnet.fi>
Subject: Re: How many Holidays?
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At 16:49 24.11.2001 -0800, you wrote:
>Not sure if this has been asked before?  How many Holidays so to speak are
>in the kingdom?  I can only think of a few examples... One is the time of
>choosing (not sure if this counts), the displaying of the Royal children
>(which may or may not count, due to prince Nicky), and lastly Summer and
>Winter Solisticle? For some reason the proper names escape me.  I was
>thinking that the feast after the choosing in Magician sounds a lot like
>Thanksgiving.... I know I'm still full from Thanksgiving still.  Anyone know
>of any others I may have forgotten, or know the proper names?
>
>Thanks,
>
>Jason
>"Too much knowlege never makes for simple decisions."
>                           Ghanima- Children of Dune

 Midsummer's solstice is called Banabis and if I'm not totally mistaken,
Banabis was also the time of choosing, since (people in the Kingdom didn't
keep track of their birthdays separately) everyone was counted a year older
on Banabis, and children were adopted to a trade when they came to their
age.

 -- Paavo Kakko

 "Again I hear you piping, for I know the tune so well,
  You rouse the heart to wander and be free,
  Tho' where you learned your music, not the God of song can tell,
  For you pipe the open highway and the sea."
                       .. Robert Louis Stevenson; The Piper ..



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--- Paavo Kakko <joeru@mbnet.fi> wrote:
> Midsummer's solstice is called Banabis and if I'm not totally
> mistaken, Banabis was also the time of choosing, since (people in the > Kingdom didn't keep track of their birthdays separately) everyone was > counted a year older on Banabis, and children were adopted to a trade > when they came to their age.

You described that festival well enough, with one small reservation: its name is Banapis. When I read "Magician" for the first time, I thought it was the name of some god or goddess. Probably I mixed Midkemian Banath and Egyptian Apis :).

Regards
Nathan

_____________________________________________________________
Get your Free, Permanent, and Private Irish Email Today!
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Subject: question about language in midkemia
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Subject: question about language in midkemia
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Ray,

When writing in Midkemia, if you needed to use a word that couldn't exist in
the King's tongue, but does in our language (I can't think of many off hand,
but a word like "boycott" for instance) what do you do?

When I write fantasy this is a slight problem - I find myself using words or
phrases that shouldn't exist in the world in which I'm writing and it
weakens the reality of the story. Did you have any problems like this when
you started writing?

- Ian



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From: "Donal K. Fellows" <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk>
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In-reply-to: <20011125150256.CAC2436F9@sitemail.everyone.net> (message from
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From: "Donal K. Fellows" <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: How many Holidays?
Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 09:55:07 +0000
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Nathan <nathan@irish4ever.com>
> --- Paavo Kakko <joeru@mbnet.fi> wrote:
>> Midsummer's solstice is called Banabis
[...]
> You described that festival well enough, with one small reservation:
> its name is Banapis. When I read "Magician" for the first time, I
> thought it was the name of some god or goddess. Probably I mixed
> Midkemian Banath and Egyptian Apis :).

Curiously, the "b" and "p" sounds are linguistically very close (one
is a voiced form of the other?)  If you look at the etymology of a
number of words (and names too; the examples I've heard of were Welsh
surnames - "Bowen" being a form of "ap Owen" meaning "son of Owen"
IIRC) the shift between the two happens quite frequently.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled programme.

Donal.
-- 
Donal K. Fellows, Department of Computer Science, University of Manchester, UK.
(work) fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk     Tel: +44-161-275-6137  (preferred email addr.)
(home) donal@ugglan.demon.co.uk  Tel: +44-1274-401017   Mobile: +44-7957-298955
http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~fellowsd/  (Don't quote my .sig; I've seen it before!)



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Hi James, sorry I can not help you with Kelewan geography, but I can help 
you out with the section on Midkemian gods. I use Midkemia for my D&D 
campaign, so I have compiled a goodly amount of info about it. Following is 
my current list on Midkemian gods. The "domains" and "alignments" are D&D 
specific, so you should ignore these. However, if anyone on the list wants 
to comment on the domains and alignments I have picked, by all means do so. 
It will only help make my campaign more accurate. All the lesser gods are 
complete with the acception of alternate keshian/novindus names for the same 
gods. I am still adding and tinkering with the 7 greater gods. After 
researching the four elements/humours/compass points/seasons, etc..., I 
decided to give each of the builders one of the four elements from which all 
things are created, ie, earth, air, fire,water. By the way, it's a bit long 
so you might want to print it out. If anyone wants to steal it for their own 
D&D campigns, by all means do so.

Adieu Jimmy

The Two Blind Gods of the Beginning:

Rathar: The ancient goddess of Order. Wove the multitudes of the fibers of 
life and power into a complex latticework of Order, forming a single, 
mighty, braided cord.
	Domains: Chaos, Destruction.
	Alignment: Lawful Neutral.

Mythar: The ancient god of Chaos. Tore apart the strands, letting them fly 
apart in chaos.
	Domains: Law, Creation (DF).
	Alignment: Chaotic Neutral.


The Seven Greater or Controller Gods:

Ishap: The Balance, The Matrix, The One above all, The force that keeps 
everything else in harmony.
	Domains: Nobility, Knowledge.
	Alignment: True Neutral.

Arch-Indar: The selfless, the goddess of good, an agent of creation.
	Domains: Good.
	Alignment: Neutral Good.

Nalar: The Mad God, The Nameless One, The Unnamed One, the god of evil, an 
agent of destruction.
	Domains: Evil.
Alignment: Neutral Evil.

The Builders:

Abram-Sev: The Builder, the overt force, the obvious, the external, the 
giver of laws, the thunderer.
	Domains: Earth.
	Alignment: True Neutral.

Ev-Dem: The worker from within, the covert, the hidden, the calculator of 
odd.
	Domains: Air.
	Alignment: True Neutral.

Graf: The weaver of wishes and dreams, the imagined, the stuff that glues 
the external and internal together, the binder.
	Domains: Water.
	Alignment: True Neutral.

Helbinor: The abstainer, the force that has no place yet exists, the 
antimatter of this mystic universe.
	Domains: Fire.
	Alignment: True Neutral.

The Twelve Lesser Gods:
Of the Original 100

Silban: The earth mother, the bringer of harvests, sleeper without dreams.
	Domains: Law, Animal, Plant, Earth, Renewal (FR), Family (FR).
	Alignment: Lawful Neutral.

Sung: The white, the follower of the one path, the Goddess of healing, 
sister to Drusala.
	Domains: Good, Healing, Law, Nobility (FR).
	Alignment: Lawful Good.

Ka-Hooli: The howler after fugitives, the tireless pursuer, the warrior god 
of vengeance, the unraveler of mysteries into truth.
	Domains: Law, Travel, War, (FR), Retribution (FR), Inquisition (DF).
	Alignment: Lawful Neutral.

Astalon: The just, the builder, the god who brought order, the Sky god.
	Domains: Good, Law, Craft, Sun, Storm (FR).
	Alignment: Lawful Good.

Ban-ath: The artful dodger, the prankster, the nightwalker, the silent thief 
of precious commodities.
	Domains: Trickery, Luck, Travel, Chaos, Darkness (FR).
	Alignment: Chaotic Neutral.

Kilian: The singer of green silences, the gatherer of quiet pleasures, the 
goddess of love, goddess of foresters, goddess of the sea and sailors.
	Domains: Animal, Plant, Good, Protection, Water, Ocean (FR), Charm (FR).
	Alignment: Neutral Good.

Tith-Onanka: The war god with two faces, (T) the tactician, the planner of 
battles, (O) the happy warrior, the joyful warrior.
	Domains: War, Strength, Good, Protection, Planning (FR).
	Alignment: Neutral Good.

Dala: Shield of the weak, goddess of passive strength, the protector.
	Domains: Protection, Good, Strength, Healing, Suffering (FR).
	Alignment: Neutral Good.

Ruthia: The dancer through men’s hearts, the goddess of love scorned, the 
lady of luck.
	Domains: Luck, Trickery, Chaos, Fate (FR).
	Alignment: Chaotic Neutral.

Guis-Wa: The Bayer after the moons, the red-jawed hunter, the reveler of 
forbidden knowledge, the wanter of all things, the killer god.
	Domains: Evil, Chaos, Animal, Knowledge, War, Moon (FR).
	Alignment: Chaotic Evil.

Prandur: The burner of cities, the spreader of confusion, the light bringer.
	Domains: Fire, Chaos, Destruction, Sun, Suffering (FR).
	Alignment: Chaotic Evil.

Lims-Kragma: The drawer of nets, the mistress of death, she who waits, the 
lover of life.
	Domains: Chaos, Death, Undeath (FR), Darkness (FR), Fate (FR).
	Alignment: Chaotic Evil.

Known Lost Lesser Gods:

Wodar-Hospur: The Loremaster, the lost god of Knowledge.
	Domains: Knowledge, Rune (FR), Divination (DF), Inquisition (DF).
	Alignment: True Neutral.

Sarig: The lost god of magic.
	Domains: Knowledge, Magic, Spell (FR), Illusion (FR), Mentalism (FR).
	Alignment: True Neutral.

Eortis: Old Dolphin Tail, old god of the sea.
	Domains: Chaos, Water, Protection, Storm (FR), Ocean (FR).
	Alignment: Chaotic Neutral.

Drusala: Lost goddess of healing, sister to Sung.
	Domains: Healing, Good, Protection.
	Alignment: Neutral Good.

Isanda: Lost goddess of the dance.
	Domains: Chaos, Charm, Good, Charm (FR).
	Alignment: Chaotic Good.

Onanka-Tith: The Joyful Warrior, the Planner of battles, the War god with 
two faces.
	Domains: Knowledge, Rune (FR), Divination (DF), Inquisition (DF).
	Alignment: Neutral Good.



Here are some comments on the gods:

1. Astalon is ALSO a Sky God according to one of the midkemia press RPG 
suppliments.


2. I am pretty sure that Kilian is also the goddess of Love. I will try and 
document this and get it back to you. I know definatly that she is the 
goddess of sailors and the sea (since Eortis[old dolphin tail] died, she 
added his sphere of influence to her own).



3. Tith-Onanka is not dead, he is the two-faced warrior, the war god with 
two faces, the planner of battles, the tactician, the happy warrior, the 
joyful warrior. This is what happened, as I understand it: Tith (who is the 
Tactician) and Onanka, or Onan-Ka, (who is the Happy Warrior, were both 
wounded during the Chaos Wars. They each lost part of themselves and in 
order to survive, combined themselves into one god known as Tith-Onanka or 
Tith-Onan-Ka. So, the combined parts of them that died simply has the name 
reversed, IE, Onanka-Tith. See Darkness page 139

4. Ishap created the 100 lesser gods. Darkness page 139

Note that the following was cut from an email sent by Ray to the list:


     Abram-Sev is neither Lawful nor Chaotic.

     Abram-Sev is the builder, the overt force, the obvious, the external.

     Ev-Dem is the worker from within, the covert, the hidden.

     Graf is the weaver of dreams, the imagined, the stuff that glues the
external and internal together, the binder.

     Helbinor is the abstainer, the force that has no place, yet exists.
Consider him the anti-mater of this mystic universe.

     Ishap is the balancer, the force that keeps everything else in harmony.

     Best, R.E.F.


Adieu
Jimmy

Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary 
Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
   -- Benjamin Franklin



_________________________________________________________________
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Subject: Stirring the pot
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From: "Solaar" <Jody@tesco.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Stirring the pot
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 17:12:01 -0000
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Ok, guys and gals - here's one for ya. I'm only asking this out of pure
curiosity.

What makes Ray's books so much better than a lot of the other fantasy
tales and multi-part books out there at the moment.

I have my own views but I'd rather get some of you others talking first.

Solaar

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--- "Donal K. Fellows" <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk> wrote:
>We now return you to your regularly scheduled programme.

What is that supposed to mean?!

Do you make fun of me? Proper names from R.E.Feist's books shouldn't
be changed, for me it's obvious. It wasn't simply picking on from my
side.

_____________________________________________________________
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---------- http://www.irish4ever.com -----------



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From: Andrea J Chee <andrea@bloodaxe.com>
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In article <20011126202431.E87E8275F@sitemail.everyone.net>, Nathan
<nathan@irish4ever.com> writes
>
>What is that supposed to mean?!

It just means that Donal was making a comment which was an aside or
adjunct to the main thread, and now we can return the real topic again.
The comment is used on TV when they interrupt a programme to announce
something and then return the viewers to what they were watching.

- ANDREA

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Hi,

Personally I think they're better because the worlds he created are so
believeable, the characters convincing, and the stories simply told better
than a lot of other ones out there.
The thing that impressed me about Magician was that not a page was wasted,
the story kept on moving and I never got bored. I hadn't read any fantasy
for years until I read that book, becuase I had read so many sub standard
fantasy books that I was sick of them, and never would have believed I could
be sucked into a fictional world again.

Also, the 5 riftwar thing is a great concept... not sure why I like it so
much, but something about the kingdom getting these kinds of things flung at
them, and how they deal with it appeals to me.

- Ian



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From: Matt Sainsbury <lord_al_rashid@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Stirring the pot
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Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 15:29:13 -0800 (PST)
From: Matt Sainsbury <lord_al_rashid@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Stirring the pot
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    R.E.F controls his 'battle scenes' better than any
other writer in the fantasy genre. Many writers
struggle with this aspect of writing most, it is
incredibly difficult to conjure an image in a readers
head about the organised chaos that is battles, but
Ray does it smootly and succintly, and this is what
makes his writings so enjoyable. IMO, this is about
the only thing that pulled Tolkiens work down, he
really seemed to struggle with the war in the third
book of Lord of the Rings, and it was far less
enjoyable than it could have been... the siege in
Armengar in Darkness of Sethanon was more interesting
to me.

    The other main 'shining point' of Rays novels are
his characters, who are all fun, loveable and well
crafted. I like how he gives them simple names (Pug,
Jimmy), I've read some books that use complex names
too often and it tends to get confusing. Ray's
characters are the sort that readers like to think
they are adventurning with when they read the books,
and it's quite easy to build a complete mental picture
of the main characters. So far, from what I've read,
only R.A Salvatores characters are equal.... The
Harpers, Drizzt Do 'Urden and the cat Guenwyvar are
probably the greatest fantasy characters for a
'hardcore' reader (of course Aragorn and Galdalf have
their place too.... I just don't find them as
'loveable'), but Rays more than hold their own (I'm
still waiting for a series with Locklear the main
character Ray!! *LOL*)

   Anyhow thats what I think distinguises Rays books
over 99% of authors..... *Prepares to be flamed*

Matt

--- Solaar <Jody@tesco.net> wrote:
> Ok, guys and gals - here's one for ya. I'm only
> asking this out of pure curiosity.
> 
> What makes Ray's books so much better than a lot of
> the other fantasy tales and multi-part books out
> there at the moment.
> 
> I have my own views but I'd rather get some of you
> others talking first.
> 
> Solaar
> 


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Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 19:19:28 -0800
Subject: Re: question about language in midkemia
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Sunday, November 25, 2001, at 07:16 AM, Ian Robinson wrote:

> Ray,
>
> When writing in Midkemia, if you needed to use a word that couldn't 
> exist in
> the King's tongue, but does in our language (I can't think of many off 
> hand,
> but a word like "boycott" for instance) what do you do?
>
> When I write fantasy this is a slight problem - I find myself using 
> words or
> phrases that shouldn't exist in the world in which I'm writing and it
> weakens the reality of the story. Did you have any problems like this 
> when
> you started writing?
>
> - Ian
>
>
>
>

You basically don't worry about it.  The reader will accept a phrase or 
word in context most times, unless you go for something really jarring, 
such as talking about a villain having "anxiety issues," or a blacksmith 
sharpening a sword to a "laser finish."

Boycott has become generic to the point where 90% of those who hear the 
word don't know it's etymology, and they wouldn't know who Captain 
Charles Cunningham Boycott was.    You might have a bigger problem using 
the word in a non-fantasy, historical novel set before 1880.

Sometimes you waltz around it, but most of the time it's not a problem.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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From: Allan Mills <milla@css.com.au>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" (FEISTFANS-L) <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: question about language in midkemia
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 14:33:06 +1100
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From: Allan Mills <milla@css.com.au>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" (FEISTFANS-L) <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: question about language in midkemia
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 Yah, unless the phrase really jumps out as being wrong most readers won't
even click to it being out of place. About the only case I've noticed in
Ray's books which I clicked to after few reads was in Daughter of the
Empire. One of the Tsurani makes a comment about "pulling steel" with
regards to drawing a sword. Only the Tsurani lords have metal swords,
everyone else has wooden swords so "pulling steel" was out of place. 

 Of course I don't know if Ray or Janny wrote that line.

 Allan

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Raymond Feist [mailto:raymond@bittersea.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2001 2:19 PM
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Subject: Re: question about language in midkemia
> 
> 
> 
> On Sunday, November 25, 2001, at 07:16 AM, Ian Robinson wrote:
> 
> > Ray,
> >
> > When writing in Midkemia, if you needed to use a word that couldn't 
> > exist in
> > the King's tongue, but does in our language (I can't think 
> of many off 
> > hand,
> > but a word like "boycott" for instance) what do you do?
> >
> > When I write fantasy this is a slight problem - I find myself using 
> > words or
> > phrases that shouldn't exist in the world in which I'm 
> writing and it
> > weakens the reality of the story. Did you have any problems 
> like this 
> > when
> > you started writing?
> >
> > - Ian
> >
> >
> >
> >
> 
> You basically don't worry about it.  The reader will accept a 
> phrase or 
> word in context most times, unless you go for something 
> really jarring, 
> such as talking about a villain having "anxiety issues," or a 
> blacksmith 
> sharpening a sword to a "laser finish."
> 
> Boycott has become generic to the point where 90% of those 
> who hear the 
> word don't know it's etymology, and they wouldn't know who Captain 
> Charles Cunningham Boycott was.    You might have a bigger 
> problem using 
> the word in a non-fantasy, historical novel set before 1880.
> 
> Sometimes you waltz around it, but most of the time it's not 
> a problem.
> 
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
> 
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be 
> explained away by 
> stupidity.
> 



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Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 21:18:06 -0800
Subject: Re: question about language in midkemia
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
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On Monday, November 26, 2001, at 07:33 PM, Allan Mills wrote:

>  Yah, unless the phrase really jumps out as being wrong most readers 
> won't
> even click to it being out of place. About the only case I've noticed in
> Ray's books which I clicked to after few reads was in Daughter of the
> Empire. One of the Tsurani makes a comment about "pulling steel" with
> regards to drawing a sword. Only the Tsurani lords have metal swords,
> everyone else has wooden swords so "pulling steel" was out of place.
>
>  Of course I don't know if Ray or Janny wrote that line.
>
>

That was a simple mistake.  It should have been "pulling a blade," but 
what the heck.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Subject: Re: Stirring the pot
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From: "Andrew Scott" <a.sc0tt@home.com>
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>---- Original Message -----
>From: "Solaar" <Jody@tesco.net>
>Subject: Stirring the pot
>
>What makes Ray's books so much better than a lot of the other fantasy tales
>and multi-part books out there at the moment.

1. He doesnt take 12+ books to finish a series of books.
2. His books have a more epic feel than most books (not counting the Krondor
books, they were a bit flat)
3. Intrigue and swordfights are fun but most books dont keep them balanced
very well.



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From: "James Culshaw" <culshaja@hotmail.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L), <jajy@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Your website
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 09:10:49 -0000
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I got the gods information from pair of mails posted to this list by Steve
Abrams and Ray some time back. Funnily enough there was a few small
differences, so I jsut sort of merged them....

James :-)

___________________________________________________________
___________________________________________________________

My mind is the centre of the universe and you are all but dreams!

Please check out the following sites:

http://dotnet.securedomains.com/krondor/index.aspx
http://www.active-data-solutions.co.uk
http://www.unholycrusade.co.uk

----- Original Message -----
From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
To: <jajy@earthlink.net>; "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Monday, November 26, 2001 3:13 PM
Subject: Your website


> Hi James, sorry I can not help you with Kelewan geography, but I can help
> you out with the section on Midkemian gods. I use Midkemia for my D&D
> campaign, so I have compiled a goodly amount of info about it. Following is
> my current list on Midkemian gods. The "domains" and "alignments" are D&D
> specific, so you should ignore these. However, if anyone on the list wants
> to comment on the domains and alignments I have picked, by all means do so.
> It will only help make my campaign more accurate. All the lesser gods are
> complete with the acception of alternate keshian/novindus names for the same
> gods. I am still adding and tinkering with the 7 greater gods. After
> researching the four elements/humours/compass points/seasons, etc..., I
> decided to give each of the builders one of the four elements from which all
> things are created, ie, earth, air, fire,water. By the way, it's a bit long
> so you might want to print it out. If anyone wants to steal it for their own
> D&D campigns, by all means do so.
>
> Adieu Jimmy
>
> The Two Blind Gods of the Beginning:
>
> Rathar: The ancient goddess of Order. Wove the multitudes of the fibers of
> life and power into a complex latticework of Order, forming a single,
> mighty, braided cord.
> Domains: Chaos, Destruction.
> Alignment: Lawful Neutral.
>
> Mythar: The ancient god of Chaos. Tore apart the strands, letting them fly
> apart in chaos.
> Domains: Law, Creation (DF).
> Alignment: Chaotic Neutral.
>
>
> The Seven Greater or Controller Gods:
>
> Ishap: The Balance, The Matrix, The One above all, The force that keeps
> everything else in harmony.
> Domains: Nobility, Knowledge.
> Alignment: True Neutral.
>
> Arch-Indar: The selfless, the goddess of good, an agent of creation.
> Domains: Good.
> Alignment: Neutral Good.
>
> Nalar: The Mad God, The Nameless One, The Unnamed One, the god of evil, an
> agent of destruction.
> Domains: Evil.
> Alignment: Neutral Evil.
>
> The Builders:
>
> Abram-Sev: The Builder, the overt force, the obvious, the external, the
> giver of laws, the thunderer.
> Domains: Earth.
> Alignment: True Neutral.
>
> Ev-Dem: The worker from within, the covert, the hidden, the calculator of
> odd.
> Domains: Air.
> Alignment: True Neutral.
>
> Graf: The weaver of wishes and dreams, the imagined, the stuff that glues
> the external and internal together, the binder.
> Domains: Water.
> Alignment: True Neutral.
>
> Helbinor: The abstainer, the force that has no place yet exists, the
> antimatter of this mystic universe.
> Domains: Fire.
> Alignment: True Neutral.
>
> The Twelve Lesser Gods:
> Of the Original 100
>
> Silban: The earth mother, the bringer of harvests, sleeper without dreams.
> Domains: Law, Animal, Plant, Earth, Renewal (FR), Family (FR).
> Alignment: Lawful Neutral.
>
> Sung: The white, the follower of the one path, the Goddess of healing,
> sister to Drusala.
> Domains: Good, Healing, Law, Nobility (FR).
> Alignment: Lawful Good.
>
> Ka-Hooli: The howler after fugitives, the tireless pursuer, the warrior god
> of vengeance, the unraveler of mysteries into truth.
> Domains: Law, Travel, War, (FR), Retribution (FR), Inquisition (DF).
> Alignment: Lawful Neutral.
>
> Astalon: The just, the builder, the god who brought order, the Sky god.
> Domains: Good, Law, Craft, Sun, Storm (FR).
> Alignment: Lawful Good.
>
> Ban-ath: The artful dodger, the prankster, the nightwalker, the silent thief
> of precious commodities.
> Domains: Trickery, Luck, Travel, Chaos, Darkness (FR).
> Alignment: Chaotic Neutral.
>
> Kilian: The singer of green silences, the gatherer of quiet pleasures, the
> goddess of love, goddess of foresters, goddess of the sea and sailors.
> Domains: Animal, Plant, Good, Protection, Water, Ocean (FR), Charm (FR).
> Alignment: Neutral Good.
>
> Tith-Onanka: The war god with two faces, (T) the tactician, the planner of
> battles, (O) the happy warrior, the joyful warrior.
> Domains: War, Strength, Good, Protection, Planning (FR).
> Alignment: Neutral Good.
>
> Dala: Shield of the weak, goddess of passive strength, the protector.
> Domains: Protection, Good, Strength, Healing, Suffering (FR).
> Alignment: Neutral Good.
>
> Ruthia: The dancer through men's hearts, the goddess of love scorned, the
> lady of luck.
> Domains: Luck, Trickery, Chaos, Fate (FR).
> Alignment: Chaotic Neutral.
>
> Guis-Wa: The Bayer after the moons, the red-jawed hunter, the reveler of
> forbidden knowledge, the wanter of all things, the killer god.
> Domains: Evil, Chaos, Animal, Knowledge, War, Moon (FR).
> Alignment: Chaotic Evil.
>
> Prandur: The burner of cities, the spreader of confusion, the light bringer.
> Domains: Fire, Chaos, Destruction, Sun, Suffering (FR).
> Alignment: Chaotic Evil.
>
> Lims-Kragma: The drawer of nets, the mistress of death, she who waits, the
> lover of life.
> Domains: Chaos, Death, Undeath (FR), Darkness (FR), Fate (FR).
> Alignment: Chaotic Evil.
>
> Known Lost Lesser Gods:
>
> Wodar-Hospur: The Loremaster, the lost god of Knowledge.
> Domains: Knowledge, Rune (FR), Divination (DF), Inquisition (DF).
> Alignment: True Neutral.
>
> Sarig: The lost god of magic.
> Domains: Knowledge, Magic, Spell (FR), Illusion (FR), Mentalism (FR).
> Alignment: True Neutral.
>
> Eortis: Old Dolphin Tail, old god of the sea.
> Domains: Chaos, Water, Protection, Storm (FR), Ocean (FR).
> Alignment: Chaotic Neutral.
>
> Drusala: Lost goddess of healing, sister to Sung.
> Domains: Healing, Good, Protection.
> Alignment: Neutral Good.
>
> Isanda: Lost goddess of the dance.
> Domains: Chaos, Charm, Good, Charm (FR).
> Alignment: Chaotic Good.
>
> Onanka-Tith: The Joyful Warrior, the Planner of battles, the War god with
> two faces.
> Domains: Knowledge, Rune (FR), Divination (DF), Inquisition (DF).
> Alignment: Neutral Good.
>
>
>
> Here are some comments on the gods:
>
> 1. Astalon is ALSO a Sky God according to one of the midkemia press RPG
> suppliments.
>
>
> 2. I am pretty sure that Kilian is also the goddess of Love. I will try and
> document this and get it back to you. I know definatly that she is the
> goddess of sailors and the sea (since Eortis[old dolphin tail] died, she
> added his sphere of influence to her own).
>
>
>
> 3. Tith-Onanka is not dead, he is the two-faced warrior, the war god with
> two faces, the planner of battles, the tactician, the happy warrior, the
> joyful warrior. This is what happened, as I understand it: Tith (who is the
> Tactician) and Onanka, or Onan-Ka, (who is the Happy Warrior, were both
> wounded during the Chaos Wars. They each lost part of themselves and in
> order to survive, combined themselves into one god known as Tith-Onanka or
> Tith-Onan-Ka. So, the combined parts of them that died simply has the name
> reversed, IE, Onanka-Tith. See Darkness page 139
>
> 4. Ishap created the 100 lesser gods. Darkness page 139
>
> Note that the following was cut from an email sent by Ray to the list:
>
>
>      Abram-Sev is neither Lawful nor Chaotic.
>
>      Abram-Sev is the builder, the overt force, the obvious, the external.
>
>      Ev-Dem is the worker from within, the covert, the hidden.
>
>      Graf is the weaver of dreams, the imagined, the stuff that glues the
> external and internal together, the binder.
>
>      Helbinor is the abstainer, the force that has no place, yet exists.
> Consider him the anti-mater of this mystic universe.
>
>      Ishap is the balancer, the force that keeps everything else in harmony.
>
>      Best, R.E.F.
>
>
> Adieu
> Jimmy
>
> Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary
> Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
>    -- Benjamin Franklin
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>
>



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From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: question about language in midkemia
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From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: question about language in midkemia
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At 09:18 PM 11/26/01 -0800, Raymond Feist wrote:
>On Monday, November 26, 2001, at 07:33 PM, Allan Mills wrote:
>>everyone else has wooden swords so "pulling steel" was out of place.
>
>That was a simple mistake.  It should have been "pulling a blade," but what the heck.

Sorry, Ray, but You Are Wrong.

*ducks*

My take on this argument is (and always has been) that "pulling steel"
is an idiomatic expression, and as such is valid in this particular
context.

Same reason that "being swept off your feet by a knight in shining
armor" can still be used, albeit generally with some degree of 
humor.  There are no Knights riding around on horses, wearing armor, 
shining or otherwise (except of course for the SCA, but that doesn't
really count in this context).  

Historically, the Tsurani came from a planet with abundant metal,
or at least enough metal that they made their swords from it.  
"Pulling steel" is just a remnant/reminder of that time.

rip



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In-reply-to: <20011126202431.E87E8275F@sitemail.everyone.net> (message from
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From: "Donal K. Fellows" <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: How many Holidays?
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 09:41:47 +0000
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Nathan <nathan@irish4ever.com>
> --- "Donal K. Fellows" <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk> wrote:
>> We now return you to your regularly scheduled programme.
> 
> What is that supposed to mean?!

What it means is that I didn't want to encourage followups on the
topic I was writing about (etymology and pronunciation) as it is
tangential to both the thread and the purpose of the list.

> Do you make fun of me?

No, I was making fun of *me* and my tendency to go off on wild
tangents at the drop of a hat (no, I don't know whose hat that is.
Gah!  There I go again...)  If you wish to defend me from myself,
well, you've got your work cut out...

> Proper names from R.E.Feist's books shouldn't be changed, for me
> it's obvious. It wasn't simply picking on from my side.

We've been through that loop before.  Some names should be changed in
translation (an example might be "Pauper's Alley" or "the Grey
Towers") and others should not ("Rillanon" is a classic instance)
unless there is a *very* good reason (e.g. if it is actually a word,
and particularly an unsavoury or derail-the-train-of-thought one) in
the language being translated into.  It's really just common sense.

Of course, there shouldn't be much in the way of variation in English;
supposedly that's a single language.  However, we must be careful to
not attribute too much to maliciousness and evil when the seam of
human incompetence and foolishness runs so broad and deep...  <g>

Donal.
-- 
Donal K. Fellows, Department of Computer Science, University of Manchester, UK.
(work) fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk     Tel: +44-161-275-6137  (preferred email addr.)
(home) donal@ugglan.demon.co.uk  Tel: +44-1274-401017   Mobile: +44-7957-298955
http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~fellowsd/  (Don't quote my .sig; I've seen it before!)



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From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
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Perhaps I should have left the D&D comments out. I'll paste it at the end 
and leave out all the D&D garbage. Anyhow, my intent was to try and help in 
the way you ordered the gods page.

Now please, someone out there correct me if I am wrong because I do not 
claim to be an expert on Ray's world, but from all the notes I have taken on 
rereading Ray's books, this is what I have come to believe about the gods:

There are the two blind gods of the beginning who predate all the other 
gods, including Ishap.

There are 7 greater gods (two of which [Arch-Indar and Ishap] are sort of 
dead but on the mend.

The rest of the gods listed are all lesser gods.

On your website, You have Drusala, Sarig, Wodar-Hospur, and Eortis listed as 
Greater gods.

You have Wodar-Hospur listed as the god of magic.

You have Tith-Onanka (or Onan-Ka) listed as being both alive in one section 
and dead in other. Tith-Onanka is not dead, he is the two-faced warrior, the 
war god with
> > two faces, the planner of battles, the tactician, the happy warrior, the
> > joyful warrior. This is what happened, as I understand it: Tith (who is
>the
> > Tactician) and Onanka, or Onan-Ka, (who is the Happy Warrior, were both
> > wounded during the Chaos Wars. They each lost part of themselves and in
> > order to survive, combined themselves into one god known as Tith-Onanka 
>or
> > Tith-Onan-Ka. So, the combined parts of them that died simply has the 
>name
> > reversed, IE, Onanka-Tith. See Darkness page 139

Here are some comments on the gods:
> >
> > 1. Astalon is ALSO a Sky God according to one of the midkemia press RPG
> > suppliments.
> >
> >
> > 2. I am pretty sure that Kilian is also the goddess of Love. I will try
>and
> > document this and get it back to you. I know definatly that she is the
> > goddess of sailors and the sea (since Eortis[old dolphin tail] died, she
> > added his sphere of influence to her own).
> >
> >
> >
> > > 4. Ishap created the 100 lesser gods. Darkness page 139
> >
> > Note that the following was cut from an email sent by Ray to the list:
> >
> >
> >      Abram-Sev is neither Lawful nor Chaotic.
> >
> >      Abram-Sev is the builder, the overt force, the obvious, the 
>external.
> >
> >      Ev-Dem is the worker from within, the covert, the hidden.
> >
> >      Graf is the weaver of dreams, the imagined, the stuff that glues 
>the
> > external and internal together, the binder.
> >
> >      Helbinor is the abstainer, the force that has no place, yet exists.
> > Consider him the anti-mater of this mystic universe.
> >
> >      Ishap is the balancer, the force that keeps everything else in
>harmony.
> >
> >      Best, R.E.F.
> >




The Two Blind Gods of the Beginning:
> >
> > Rathar: The ancient goddess of Order. Wove the multitudes of the fibers 
>of
> > life and power into a complex latticework of Order, forming a single,
> > mighty, braided cord.
> > >
> > Mythar: The ancient god of Chaos. Tore apart the strands, letting them 
>fly
> > apart in chaos.
> > > >
> >
> > The Seven Greater or Controller Gods:
> >
> > Ishap: The Balance, The Matrix, The One above all, The force that keeps
> > everything else in harmony.
> > Domains: Nobility, Knowledge.
> > Alignment: True Neutral.
> >
> > Arch-Indar: The selfless, the goddess of good, an agent of creation.
> > > >
> > Nalar: The Mad God, The Nameless One, The Unnamed One, the god of evil, 
>an
> > agent of destruction.
> > >
> > The Builders:
> >
> > Abram-Sev: The Builder, the overt force, the obvious, the external, the
> > giver of laws, the thunderer.
> > >
> > Ev-Dem: The worker from within, the covert, the hidden, the calculator 
>of
> > odd.
> > > >
> > Graf: The weaver of wishes and dreams, the imagined, the stuff that 
>glues
> > the external and internal together, the binder.
> > > >
> > Helbinor: The abstainer, the force that has no place yet exists, the
> > antimatter of this mystic universe.
> > > >
> > The Twelve Lesser Gods:
> > Of the Original 100
> >
> > Silban: The earth mother, the bringer of harvests, sleeper without 
>dreams.
> > > >
> > Sung: The white, the follower of the one path, the Goddess of healing,
> > sister to Drusala.
> > > >
> > Ka-Hooli: The howler after fugitives, the tireless pursuer, the warrior
>god
> > of vengeance, the unraveler of mysteries into truth.
> > > >
> > Astalon: The just, the builder, the god who brought order, the Sky god.
> > > >
> > Ban-ath: The artful dodger, the prankster, the nightwalker, the silent
>thief
> > of precious commodities.
> > > >
> > Kilian: The singer of green silences, the gatherer of quiet pleasures, 
>the
> > goddess of love, goddess of foresters, goddess of the sea and sailors.
> > > >
> > Tith-Onanka: The war god with two faces, (T) the tactician, the planner 
>of
> > battles, (O) the happy warrior, the joyful warrior.
> > > > Dala: Shield of the weak, goddess of passive strength, the 
>protector.
> > > >
> > Ruthia: The dancer through men's hearts, the goddess of love scorned, 
>the
> > lady of luck.
> > > >
> > Guis-Wa: The Bayer after the moons, the red-jawed hunter, the reveler of
> > forbidden knowledge, the wanter of all things, the killer god.
> > > >
> > Prandur: The burner of cities, the spreader of confusion, the light
>bringer.
> > > >
> > Lims-Kragma: The drawer of nets, the mistress of death, she who waits, 
>the
> > lover of life.
> > > >
> > Known Lost Lesser Gods:
> >
> > Wodar-Hospur: The Loremaster, the lost god of Knowledge.
> > > >
> > Sarig: The lost god of magic.
> > > >
> > Eortis: Old Dolphin Tail, old god of the sea.
> > > >
> > Drusala: Lost goddess of healing, sister to Sung.
> > > >
> > Isanda: Lost goddess of the dance.
> > > >
> > Onanka-Tith: The Joyful Warrior, the Planner of battles, the War god 
>with
> > two faces.
> > > >
> >
> >
> > > >
> > Adieu
> > Jimmy
> >
> > Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little 
>temporary
> > Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
> >    -- Benjamin Franklin
> >






Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary 
Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
   -- Benjamin Franklin




>From: "James Culshaw" <culshaja@hotmail.com>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L), <jajy@earthlink.net>
>Subject: Re: Your website
>Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 09:10:49 -0000
>
>I got the gods information from pair of mails posted to this list by Steve
>Abrams and Ray some time back. Funnily enough there was a few small
>differences, so I jsut sort of merged them....
>
>James :-)
>
>___________________________________________________________
>___________________________________________________________
>
>My mind is the centre of the universe and you are all but dreams!
>
>Please check out the following sites:
>
>http://dotnet.securedomains.com/krondor/index.aspx
>http://www.active-data-solutions.co.uk
>http://www.unholycrusade.co.uk
>
> >
> > > >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at 
>http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
> >
> >
>


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp



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From: Allan Mills <milla@css.com.au>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" (FEISTFANS-L) <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: question about language in midkemia
Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 08:52:50 +1100
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From: Allan Mills <milla@css.com.au>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" (FEISTFANS-L) <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: question about language in midkemia
Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 08:52:50 +1100
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu




> Historically, the Tsurani came from a planet with abundant metal,
> or at least enough metal that they made their swords from it.  
> "Pulling steel" is just a remnant/reminder of that time.
> 
> rip
> 

 I can't agree with that argument. The Tsurani moved to their current planet
thousands of years ago. They've been there so long that, other than the
mages, they no longer even believe in "the enemy" that drove them there.
Languages tend to change a lot over time so I honestly doubt that pulling
steel would have stayed in the vernacular for so long.

 Allan



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References: <E3A4AA1DA7B41849A632450233B5423A178018@css01.css.com.au>
Subject: Re: question about language in midkemia
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From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: question about language in midkemia
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 21:12:11 -0600
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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    Just for the sake of argument I am inclined to point out that
the Tsurani were notably stagnant for an exceptionally long time
(~2,000 years) and were a society built upon tradition.  This could
lead one to believe that the language that they use is far less
fluid than would be normally seen, particularly when we live in a
world that is defined more by change than constancy (this defining
out own experiences and understanding of language).  The Tsurani are
the other way around.
    Besides which there are expressions in our language dating back
hundreds of years that are often thought of as modern, so language
does have some quirks to it that often suggest less change in
respects to its expressions than not.  Think of the issue with
cliches.  Many cliches, still used widely, are found in books from
the 16th, 17th, and 18th centuries.
    As for no longer believing in the "enemy" I think this can be
chalked up to some type of educated disdain legends.  Looking at a
"factual event" as being embellished and modified.  The modern
Tsurani probably thought of it in a similar manner to the way many
people in the modern world look at legends, they see it as a cute
children's story but place no basis for it reality.  Whereas there
is a distinct possibility of one (or more) of those historical
legends to be grounded in truth.  Think of the Trojan War, how much
of that was rooted in truth and how much was embellished fantasy?
Same may be true for any number of mythical figures embellished upon
over the ages to the point where we can no longer distinguish
between the facts of the time and the "added flavor".  Again think
of the stories of Arthur, or even something as simple as Beowulf.
Were these real men?  Or merely stories?  If they are based upon
real people, what was the actual truth of the stories?  Many people
are willing to write of possible truths, when they see them as too
embellished.  I think this is kind of what would have happened in
"advanced" Tsurani culture.
    Just my buck and a quarter opinion.

-James

> > Historically, the Tsurani came from a planet with abundant metal,
> > or at least enough metal that they made their swords from it.
> > "Pulling steel" is just a remnant/reminder of that time.
> >
> > rip
> >
>
>  I can't agree with that argument. The Tsurani moved to their current planet
> thousands of years ago. They've been there so long that, other than the
> mages, they no longer even believe in "the enemy" that drove them there.
> Languages tend to change a lot over time so I honestly doubt that pulling
> steel would have stayed in the vernacular for so long.
>
>  Allan
>



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From: "Luke Vinen" <lukevinen18@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Conclave of shadows??
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Just a question for Ray!!

when will the series "Conclave of Shadows" be coming out in Aust.??


Luke:)

In a World of Order, CHAOS Rules!!

_________________________________________________________________
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From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: RE: question about language in midkemia
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Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 11:10:51 +0000
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: RE: question about language in midkemia
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At 08:52 AM 11/28/01 +1100, Allan Mills wrote:
>> Historically, the Tsurani came from a planet with abundant metal,
>> or at least enough metal that they made their swords from it.  
>> "Pulling steel" is just a remnant/reminder of that time.
>> 
>
> I can't agree with that argument. The Tsurani moved to their current planet
>thousands of years ago. They've been there so long that, other than the
>mages, they no longer even believe in "the enemy" that drove them there.
>Languages tend to change a lot over time so I honestly doubt that pulling
>steel would have stayed in the vernacular for so long.

I'd like to put forth an idiomatic expression that is current, but
is based on something that was 'normal' a thousand years ago.  The
problem there is that "English" wasn't "English" a thousand years
ago.  Are there any Danes (or Icelandics?) that can help with an
example of an idiom that dates back a thousand years (or there abouts)?

Anyway, I agree with James' email.  Tsurani is based on tradition,
and they have a written language.  Those two factors alone would
probably keep linguistical remnants about.

rip



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Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 08:15:38 -0800
Subject: Re: Conclave of shadows??
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 08:15:38 -0800
Subject: Re: Conclave of shadows??
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On Tuesday, November 27, 2001, at 07:39 PM, Luke Vinen wrote:

>
>
> Just a question for Ray!!
>
> when will the series "Conclave of Shadows" be coming out in Aust.??
>
>
> Luke:)
>
> In a World of Order, CHAOS Rules!!
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at 
> http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>
>
>
>

Assuming I get the damn thing written in time, next October.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 11:42:40 -0800 (PST)
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From: Terry Corbett <macros102@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: question about language in midkemia
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 11:42:40 -0800 (PST)
From: Terry Corbett <macros102@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: question about language in midkemia
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I just can't get over the fact that you're arguing
with the man who created the Tsurani in the first
place.  I mean, wouldn't Ray know what would be a
phrase that would or would not be in the current
Tsurani vocabulary?

Terry Corbett

--- Richard Williamson
<richard.williamson@windriver.com> wrote:
> At 09:18 PM 11/26/01 -0800, Raymond Feist wrote:
> >On Monday, November 26, 2001, at 07:33 PM, Allan
> Mills wrote:
> >>everyone else has wooden swords so "pulling steel"
> was out of place.
> >
> >That was a simple mistake.  It should have been
> "pulling a blade," but what the heck.
> 
> Sorry, Ray, but You Are Wrong.
> 
> *ducks*
> 
> My take on this argument is (and always has been)
> that "pulling steel"
> is an idiomatic expression, and as such is valid in
> this particular
> context.
> 
> Same reason that "being swept off your feet by a
> knight in shining
> armor" can still be used, albeit generally with some
> degree of 
> humor.  There are no Knights riding around on
> horses, wearing armor, 
> shining or otherwise (except of course for the SCA,
> but that doesn't
> really count in this context).  
> 
> Historically, the Tsurani came from a planet with
> abundant metal,
> or at least enough metal that they made their swords
> from it.  
> "Pulling steel" is just a remnant/reminder of that
> time.
> 
> rip
> 


__________________________________________________
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Subject: Re: question about language in midkemia
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 12:53:25 -0800
Subject: Re: question about language in midkemia
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On Wednesday, November 28, 2001, at 11:42 AM, Terry Corbett wrote:

> I just can't get over the fact that you're arguing
> with the man who created the Tsurani in the first
> place.  I mean, wouldn't Ray know what would be a
> phrase that would or would not be in the current
> Tsurani vocabulary?
>
I never argue with rip.  He's always right.  He told me so.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Subject: RE: question about language in midkemia
Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 23:45:11 -0600
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Joe S." <diamondjoesmith@yahoo.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: question about language in midkemia
Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 23:45:11 -0600
Organization: Elite Communications
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I never argue with rip. He'd likely flame me back to the time of the
Crossing if I did...;)

Besides, Ray says that what he intended to write was "pulling a blade",
rip was simply stating how what he DID write could still be valid. I
don't see an argument there. :)

Joseph A. Smith

-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Terry Corbett
>Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2001 1:43 PM
>To: FEISTFANS-L
>Subject: Re: question about language in midkemia
>
>I just can't get over the fact that you're arguing
>with the man who created the Tsurani in the first
>place.  I mean, wouldn't Ray know what would be a
>phrase that would or would not be in the current
>Tsurani vocabulary?
>
>Terry Corbett
>
>--- Richard Williamson
><richard.williamson@windriver.com> wrote:
>> At 09:18 PM 11/26/01 -0800, Raymond Feist wrote:
>> >On Monday, November 26, 2001, at 07:33 PM, Allan
>> Mills wrote:
>> >>everyone else has wooden swords so "pulling steel"
>> was out of place.
>> >
>> >That was a simple mistake.  It should have been
>> "pulling a blade," but what the heck.
>> 
>> Sorry, Ray, but You Are Wrong.
>> 
>> *ducks*
>> 
>> My take on this argument is (and always has been)
>> that "pulling steel"
>> is an idiomatic expression, and as such is valid in
>> this particular
>> context.
>> 
>> Same reason that "being swept off your feet by a
>> knight in shining
>> armor" can still be used, albeit generally with some
>> degree of 
>> humor.  There are no Knights riding around on
>> horses, wearing armor, 
>> shining or otherwise (except of course for the SCA,
>> but that doesn't
>> really count in this context).  
>> 
>> Historically, the Tsurani came from a planet with
>> abundant metal,
>> or at least enough metal that they made their swords
>> from it.  
>> "Pulling steel" is just a remnant/reminder of that
>> time.
>> 
>> rip
>> 
>
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month.
>http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1
>


_________________________________________________________
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Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 09:08:32 +0000
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: question about language in midkemia
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At 11:42 AM 11/28/01 -0800, Terry Corbett wrote:
>I just can't get over the fact that you're arguing
>with the man who created the Tsurani in the first
>place.  I mean, wouldn't Ray know what would be a
>phrase that would or would not be in the current
>Tsurani vocabulary?

Um, excuse me please, but are you trying to take
me seriously?  and if so, why?  Ishap knows /I/
don't...

Regards,
rip



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From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: RE: question about language in midkemia
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At 11:45 PM 11/28/01 -0600, Joe S. wrote:
>I never argue with rip. He'd likely flame me back to the time of the
>Crossing if I did...;)

I believe I prefer to call it 'corrective criticism', 'cause
'flame' implies that I'm not being reasoned in my arguments,
only being argumentative for arguments' sake.  

>Besides, Ray says that what he intended to write was "pulling a blade",
>rip was simply stating how what he DID write could still be valid. I
>don't see an argument there. :)

Probably Terry was upset by my saying 'Sorry Ray, but You Are Wrong'.
That sort of phrasing leaves open the possibility that someone
might misinterpret my meaning.

Albeit, I don't see how.  <-- spot the irony.

rip



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*** EOOH ***
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Is it just me or dont you like us anymore?
                   Don.
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: Thomas Ophof 
>To: FEISTFANS-L 
>Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2001 8:47 AM
>Subject: unsubscribe
>
>
>unsubscribe

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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 16:43:02 +0100
Subject: Re: Conclave of shadows??
From: "Sylvain Guehl" <fenyxkell@demo.xandmail.com>
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> Assuming I get the damn thing written in time, next October.
> 
> Best, R.E.F.

:) That's not the first time you're using "damn thing" to talk about
your work. Do you sometime come to be so tired/bored with the writing
or stressed by the "deadlines" (if it can be considered as such) that
you'd like to have another job ? :)

Syl

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Subject: Re: question about language in midkemia
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 16:44:35 +0100
Subject: Re: question about language in midkemia
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> I never argue with rip. He's always right. He told me so.
> 
> Best, R.E.F.

As for me, one day I thought I was wrong but in fact I was.

Syl

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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 16:46:52 +0100
Subject: RE: question about language in midkemia
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> Probably Terry was upset by my saying 'Sorry Ray, but You Are Wrong'.
> That sort of phrasing leaves open the possibility that someone
> might misinterpret my meaning.

I guess YAW is a common term in rip's personnal FAQ ;op

Syl

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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 16:00:58 +0000
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
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At 04:46 PM 11/29/01 +0100, Sylvain Guehl wrote:
>> Probably Terry was upset by my saying 'Sorry Ray, but You Are Wrong'.
>> That sort of phrasing leaves open the possibility that someone
>> might misinterpret my meaning.
> 
>I guess YAW is a common term in rip's personnal FAQ ;op
> 
>Syl
> 


*considers*

No, Syl, YAW. 

rip



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 08:23:12 -0800
Subject: Re: question about language in midkemia
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Thursday, November 29, 2001, at 07:44 AM, Sylvain Guehl wrote:

> > I never argue with rip. He's always right. He told me so.
> >
> > Best, R.E.F.
>  
> As for me, one day I thought I was wrong but in fact I was.
>  
> Syl
>  
>
>

Actually, the old joke in idiomatic English goes:

I was wrong once: i thought I had made a mistake.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 08:24:12 -0800
Subject: Re: Conclave of shadows??
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 08:24:12 -0800
Subject: Re: Conclave of shadows??
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Thursday, November 29, 2001, at 07:43 AM, Sylvain Guehl wrote:

> > Assuming I get the damn thing written in time, next October.
> >
> > Best, R.E.F.
>  
> :) That's not the first time you're using "damn thing" to talk about 
> your work. Do you sometime come to be so tired/bored with the writing 
> or stressed by the "deadlines" (if it can be considered as such) that 
> you'd like to have another job ? :)
>  
> Syl
>  
>
>

Writing is hard work.  It's the best job I've ever had, but it's no day 
at the beach.  I'm pretty sick of a project when I'm done with it.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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From: "Andy J Bradley" <dark_elf@btinternet.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Sarig
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 19:03:29 -0000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Andy J Bradley" <dark_elf@btinternet.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Sarig
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 19:03:29 -0000
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Ray,

would it be safe to assume Sarig (the "lost" god of magic), and Macros have
become one and the same after the events of "Rage of a Demon King"?

I got that impression when Sarig appeared in Macros's place, as Pug and
Miranda were closing the portal to the Demon King's realm...


~Andy



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From: "Alvaro Santos" <weretraira@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re: Conclave of shadows??
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From: "Alvaro Santos" <weretraira@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re: Conclave of shadows??
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Ray, how do you write? I mean, when you are working in a book, you do it in 
sequence, or there you write the chapters as your ideas come? ( i.e. chapter 
1 then 3, then 8, then 2)

I ask this because I wondered, if you are in the middle of the book and 
suddenly it occurs to you a great dialog between the main characters in the 
end of it, what would you do? Stop and write it down before you forget 
anything, or just keep it in mind and dont worry about it until its proper 
time?

Beers,
Alvaro

"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away".
Philip K. Dick



>From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
>Subject: Re: Conclave of shadows??
>Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 08:24:12 -0800
>
>
>On Thursday, November 29, 2001, at 07:43 AM, Sylvain Guehl wrote:
>
>> > Assuming I get the damn thing written in time, next October.
>> >
>> > Best, R.E.F.
>> 
>>:) That's not the first time you're using "damn thing" to talk about
>>your work. Do you sometime come to be so tired/bored with the writing
>>or stressed by the "deadlines" (if it can be considered as such) that
>>you'd like to have another job ? :)
>> 
>>Syl
>> 
>>
>>
>
>Writing is hard work.  It's the best job I've ever had, but it's no day
>at the beach.  I'm pretty sick of a project when I'm done with it.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
>stupidity.
>


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp



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Subject: Re: Stirring the pot
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Solaar" <Jody@tesco.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Stirring the pot
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>What makes Ray's books so much better than a lot of the other fantasy tales
>and multi-part books out there at the moment.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Guess I'd finally better answer my own question, huh?

Gotta agree with the past few posts by other Feistfans, they've pretty
much pointed out the things that make Ray's books so good
already... and I guess my point is best voiced in an old story.

Gather round, youngsters, and let me bend your ear...

When I was around 13 years old, my dad used to own a store in the town
where we lived. It was a general store, selling sweets, bathroom
things, petfood, and magazines, and...books.

I've loved reading as a kid, but the shelves full of comics always
took my attention - until one day I saw a book with the most striking
cover I've ever seen on it. It was of clouds above an amazing looking
citadel - all blues, greens, browns and the such. I picked this book
up because I liked the cover - no other reason.

So, approaching the middle of my teenage years I began reading
Magician... and I couldn't put the damn thing down. The book and
characters caught my imagination and I was completely sucked into this
world. I even remember trying to get my dad to read it but he was a
very busy man.

I had to have my light turned off as well at a certain time at night -
but, hey - my dad ran a convienience store and there were flashlights
aplenty!! Most kids read porn or comics under their duvets/quilts by
torchlight - I read Magician!!

And I vividly remember the night I finished reading it. I was still
13, lying in bed - and I remember crying because I thought that it was
a one-off book and that I was never going to read of Pug again!!

Has anyone ever read a book that made them cry?? I haven't since!!

You should have seen my face when I stumbled across Silverthorn in a
bookstore a few weeks later...

I guess that maybe getting hooked at such an early age, Ray's works
have become imprinted in me like Tolkien's works moreso the generation
before (possibly). In a way, I grew up with Ray's books, and I'm still
reading them now. That and the fact that I find them VERY enjoyable.

Anyway, that's my lame missive!! Hope you didn't get too bored and
made it this far ;o)

Solaar

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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 11:50:10 -0800
Subject: Re: Sarig
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Friday, November 16, 2001, at 11:03 AM, Andy J Bradley wrote:

> Ray,
>
> would it be safe to assume Sarig (the "lost" god of magic), and Macros 
> have
> become one and the same after the events of "Rage of a Demon King"?

Wouldn't be safe at all.  in fact, it might even be dangerous.

>
> I got that impression when Sarig appeared in Macros's place, as Pug and
> Miranda were closing the portal to the Demon King's realm...
>
>

It's an impression.  "Things are never what they seem to be,"  Nakor the 
Isalani.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 11:51:04 -0800
Subject: Re: Conclave of shadows??
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 11:51:04 -0800
Subject: Re: Conclave of shadows??
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Thursday, November 29, 2001, at 09:55 AM, Alvaro Santos wrote:

> Ray, how do you write? I mean, when you are working in a book, you do 
> it in sequence, or there you write the chapters as your ideas come? 
> ( i.e. chapter 1 then 3, then 8, then 2)
>
> I ask this because I wondered, if you are in the middle of the book and 
> suddenly it occurs to you a great dialog between the main characters in 
> the end of it, what would you do? Stop and write it down before you 
> forget anything, or just keep it in mind and dont worry about it until 
> its proper time?
>
I start at the beginning and keep writing until I get to the end.

If I have to go back and change something, I do.  I never write stuff 
down before I get to it.  If it's good, I'll remember it.  If I forget 
it, it wasn't that good.


Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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From: "Jeff Weidemann" <jeff@pronto.com.au>
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Subject: RE: question about language in midkemia
Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 08:27:45 +1100
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Jeff Weidemann" <jeff@pronto.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: question about language in midkemia
Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 08:27:45 +1100
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or.... I thought I was wrong once, but I was mistaken.

-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Raymond Feist
>Sent: Friday, 30 November 2001 3:23 AM
>To: FEISTFANS-L
>Subject: Re: question about language in midkemia
>
>
>
>On Thursday, November 29, 2001, at 07:44 AM, Sylvain Guehl wrote:
>
>> > I never argue with rip. He's always right. He told me so.
>> >
>> > Best, R.E.F.
>>  
>> As for me, one day I thought I was wrong but in fact I was.
>>  
>> Syl
>>  
>>
>>
>
>Actually, the old joke in idiomatic English goes:
>
>I was wrong once: i thought I had made a mistake.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
>stupidity.
>


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From: "Joe S." <diamondjoesmith@yahoo.com>
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Subject: RE: question about language in midkemia
Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 21:50:43 -0600
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From: "Joe S." <diamondjoesmith@yahoo.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: question about language in midkemia
Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 21:50:43 -0600
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I've always heard it as "One time I thought I was wrong, but as it
turned out I was mistaken"

Joseph

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]
> On Behalf Of Raymond Feist
> Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2001 10:23 AM
> To: FEISTFANS-L
> Subject: Re: question about language in midkemia
> 
> 
> On Thursday, November 29, 2001, at 07:44 AM, Sylvain Guehl wrote:
> 
> > > I never argue with rip. He's always right. He told me so.
> > >
> > > Best, R.E.F.
> >
> > As for me, one day I thought I was wrong but in fact I was.
> >
> > Syl
> >
> >
> >
> 
> Actually, the old joke in idiomatic English goes:
> 
> I was wrong once: i thought I had made a mistake.
> 
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
> 
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
> stupidity.



_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com



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Subject: Re: Conclave of shadows??
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Subject: Re: Conclave of shadows??
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> Writing is hard work. It's the best job I've ever had, but it's no day 
> at the beach. I'm pretty sick of a project when I'm done with it.
> 
> Best, R.E.F.

Well, I suppose that after some time (a year ?) you come to be
"healed" of this "sickness" and start to be, at last, "proud" of your
"old" project ?

Syl

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Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 13:10:46 +0100
Subject: Re: question about language in midkemia
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> Actually, the old joke in idiomatic English goes:
> 
> I was wrong once: i thought I had made a mistake.
> 
> Best, R.E.F.

Ah thanks, I was working hard to try and translate the french one into
english :) lol

In french, for those who might be interested : "Un jour j'ai cru être
dans l'erreur mais je me trompais."

Syl

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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 13:13:29 +0100
Subject: RE: question about language in midkemia
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Ok ok people I'm sorry, I'm just a poor frenchman trying to find his
way into the ocean of english :)

Syl

> I've always heard it as "One time I thought I was wrong, but as it
> turned out I was mistaken"
> 
> Joseph
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]
> > On Behalf Of Raymond Feist
> > Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2001 10:23 AM
> > To: FEISTFANS-L
> > Subject: Re: question about language in midkemia
> > 
> > 
> > On Thursday, November 29, 2001, at 07:44 AM, Sylvain Guehl wrote:
> > 
> > > > I never argue with rip. He's always right. He told me so.
> > > >
> > > > Best, R.E.F.
> > >
> > > As for me, one day I thought I was wrong but in fact I was.
> > >
> > > Syl
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > 
> > Actually, the old joke in idiomatic English goes:
> > 
> > I was wrong once: i thought I had made a mistake.
> > 
> > Best, R.E.F.
> > ----
> > 
> > Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
> > stupidity.
> 
> 
> 
> _________________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
> 
> 


Fenyx Kell.

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Subject: RE: question about language in midkemia
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Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 13:17:32 +0100
Subject: RE: question about language in midkemia
From: "Sylvain Guehl" <fenyxkell@demo.xandmail.com>
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> *considers*
> 
> No, Syl, YAW. 
> 
> rip

LOL ! IMHO and IIRC I'd say AFAIK we should WUTNB :) ROTFL !

<g>

Syl

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Okay that does it, now I'm completely lost. YAW, IMHO and AFAIK I know. But what
the heck do the others mean???

BTW ;-) isn't this a bit off topic?

Greetinx

Johan.

> > *considers*
> > 
> > No, Syl, YAW. 
> > 
> > rip
> 
> LOL ! IMHO and IIRC I'd say AFAIK we should WUTNB :) ROTFL !
> 
> <g>
> 
> Syl


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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 15:19:11 +0200
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Kenneth Jones <killkenny@thos.co.za>
Subject: RE: question about language in midkemia
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HEHEHEHE.

Right quick translation. If I am wrong please tell me.

LOL = Laugh Out Loud
IMHO = In My Humble Opinion
AFAIK = As Far As I Know
WUTNB = Wait Until The Next Book
ROTFL = Rolling On The Floor Laughing

Now that, that's over, let's carry on.

Regards,
Kenneth Jones

At 02:17 PM 11/30/01 +0100, you wrote:
>Okay that does it, now I'm completely lost. YAW, IMHO and AFAIK I know. 
>But what
>the heck do the others mean???
>
>BTW ;-) isn't this a bit off topic?
>
>Greetinx
>
>Johan.
>
> > > *considers*
> > >
> > > No, Syl, YAW.
> > >
> > > rip
> >
> > LOL ! IMHO and IIRC I'd say AFAIK we should WUTNB :) ROTFL !
> >
> > <g>
> >
> > Syl
>
>
>Powered by ASHosting



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 15:20:49 +0200
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Kenneth Jones <killkenny@thos.co.za>
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Oh yes, and...

IIRC = If I Remember Correctly.

Regards,
Kenneth Jones

At 02:17 PM 11/30/01 +0100, you wrote:
>Okay that does it, now I'm completely lost. YAW, IMHO and AFAIK I know. 
>But what
>the heck do the others mean???
>
>BTW ;-) isn't this a bit off topic?
>
>Greetinx
>
>Johan.
>
> > > *considers*
> > >
> > > No, Syl, YAW.
> > >
> > > rip
> >
> > LOL ! IMHO and IIRC I'd say AFAIK we should WUTNB :) ROTFL !
> >
> > <g>
> >
> > Syl
>
>
>Powered by ASHosting



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*** EOOH ***
From: "Jason Martin" <res0b95g@verizon.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: OT: Darn Graveyard Shift....
Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 05:41:11 -0800
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Oohhh I hate it when you work graveyard and when you get to your weekend,
you can not get on a normal sleeping routine!  Sorry for the vent, but you
guys are family! =)  at least it allows me to read in solitude at home for
hours uninterrupted.   Another night now where I can not get to sleep during
the night so I can spend time with the family during the day.  Anyone else
have this problem and has found a solution, other then switching back to a
day job?  Some how I think my Stilgar Sig is very appropriate for this
letter.

One tired and soon to be Cranky guy,

Jason

"To stay awake all night adds a day to your life."
                       Stilgar- Children of Dune



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 06:59:54 -0800
Subject: Re: Conclave of shadows??
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Friday, November 30, 2001, at 04:11 AM, Sylvain Guehl wrote:

> > Writing is hard work. It's the best job I've ever had, but it's no day
> > at the beach. I'm pretty sick of a project when I'm done with it.
> >
> > Best, R.E.F.
>  
> Well, I suppose that after some time (a year ?) you come to be "healed" 
> of this "sickness" and start to be, at last, "proud" of your "old" 
> project ?
>  
> Syl
>  
>
>

Not particularly.  I'm proud of my body of work, and like what I've 
done, but each book is an imperfect realization of what I had in mind 
when I sat down and started.  There's always things I could have done 
better.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu, <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Nat Russo <nrusso@cox-internet.com>
Subject: Re: OT: Darn Graveyard Shift....
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Hey Jason,

About 10 years ago, I was a Police Officer.  This was a very common 
problem, since a day consisted of 3 shifts.  Our shifts were rotating, on a 
3-month schedule.

I have *some* advice to give, but it may not be helpful.  I don't know... 
Take it for what it's worth.  During the 3-month shift, I didn't change my 
sleep pattern for the weekends.  I just couldn't do it and stay healthy at 
the same time.  This caused my family, as best they could, to work around 
my schedule.  We had very few "day" activities on the weekends, opting for 
nighttime activities instead.  This helped me to go straight back to work 
Monday night (Tuesday morning...actually).  Given my job, it was 
important.  I couldn't afford to be groggy when going  back to work, as you 
can probably imagine.

What I did *after* a 3-month rotation was different.  When I got off from 
my last graveyard shift of the rotation, I *immediately* began functioning 
how the clock dictated.  I would get off that shift at 8am, so I would NOT 
go to bed.  I would immediately begin living as though it were 8am.  Let me 
tell you, that night I would sleep like a baby.  The process is similar for 
jet-lag, actually.

I don't know to what extent you can do this, and I actually would advise 
against it if you're just doing this on a weekend-basis.  As disheartening 
as this may sound, you will place your health in jeopardy, in the long-run, 
if you keep changing your sleep pattern that often.

I hope this was helpful in some way.

Nat

At 05:41 AM 11/30/01 -0800, Jason Martin wrote:
>Oohhh I hate it when you work graveyard and when you get to your weekend,
>you can not get on a normal sleeping routine!  Sorry for the vent, but you
>guys are family! =)  at least it allows me to read in solitude at home for
>hours uninterrupted.   Another night now where I can not get to sleep during
>the night so I can spend time with the family during the day.  Anyone else
>have this problem and has found a solution, other then switching back to a
>day job?  Some how I think my Stilgar Sig is very appropriate for this
>letter.
>
>One tired and soon to be Cranky guy,
>
>Jason
>
>"To stay awake all night adds a day to your life."
>                        Stilgar- Children of Dune



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From: Joshua Stanton <jasharkalain@yahoo.com>
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The curse of an author?

~Joshua~

--- Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com> wrote:
> Not particularly.  I'm proud of my body of work, and
> like what I've 
> done, but each book is an imperfect realization of
> what I had in mind 
> when I sat down and started.  There's always things
> I could have done 
> better.
> 
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
> 
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be
> explained away by 
> stupidity.
> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Buy the perfect holiday gifts at Yahoo! Shopping.
http://shopping.yahoo.com



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Due to a friends financial circumstances, meaning she may loose her home 
I am selling  a number of copies of the following

The issue of Fantasy book containing

Profit and the Grey Assassin, Rays first published work

I am selling these at $26 US including shipping to most places on the 
planet.

I can accept credit cards through Paypal

They may have slight creases, though the copies I  offer to list members 
are usually the best of those I have, with the lesser copies going to 
Ebay.

With luck I would be able to ship so they arrive before Christmas to the 
US , and maybe even Australia

Remember I also have a number of books listed on my site for sale. 
Please check them out. At the present time any funds from the sale of 
them will also go to my friend to help

best
-- 
John

john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.

Raymond E Feist Ring
http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm



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From: John <john@crydee.com>
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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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Subject: FS Uncorrected proof of Magician APE
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I will also likely be auctioning in the next few days a copy of the

Uncorrected proof for Magician APE 1992

As most on the list know I have been collecting since 1998 and probably 
have the most comprehensive collection of Ray's works in the world, 
outside Ray's of course. I have only seen 2 copies of this in that time. 
It is believed there may have been as few as 60 of these produced in the 
first place, possibly even only half that.  And for a print Run of the 
First Edition of the APE of IIRC about 25000 that is small

This copy is not perfect, but is still an excellent prize.

I will be starting the auction at $500 though if I receive an offer I 
cant refuse before the auction starts I will sell privately as it will 
save on Ebay fees

I will notify the list of the auction number when known

Again the funds from this sale will go to my friend
-- 
John

john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.

Raymond E Feist Ring
http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm



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From: John <john@crydee.com>
Subject: FS  5 copies of the 1999 FantasyCon 23 program
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Back in 1998 Ray attended FantasyCon 23 in Birmingham England where he 
was Guest of Honour, and the Mythmakers video was compiled. I was a 
consultant on that video, with my collection of the time being shown.

I am selling 5 copies of the Program for that convention, which has an 
interview with Ray, by myself. These copies are signed by myself. These 
5 signed copies will make the total existing signed copies 10 . I will 
not sign any more

They would make a nice addition to any collection as a sort of 
association copy.

I am selling these at $50 + $6 shipping each The last sold at auction 
about a year ago for $41 IIRC

Add Rays signature, and it will likely make it even rarer

Again any proceeds from these will go to my friend

BTW what I should have said it the other notices

Please email me direct. Apologies in advance to the list if you get a 
number of messages that should be directed to me

best
-- 
John

john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.

Raymond E Feist Ring
http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm



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Subject: RE: Conclave of shadows??
Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2001 19:37:17 -0000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Michael Gibson" <gibbyfish@yahoo.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Conclave of shadows??
Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2001 19:37:17 -0000
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> On Friday, November 30, 2001, at 04:11 AM, Sylvain Guehl wrote:
>
> > > Writing is hard work. It's the best job I've ever had, but it's no day
> > > at the beach. I'm pretty sick of a project when I'm done with it.
> > >
> > > Best, R.E.F.
> >  
> > Well, I suppose that after some time (a year ?) you come to be "healed"
> > of this "sickness" and start to be, at last, "proud" of your "old"
> > project ?
> >  
> > Syl
> >  
> >
> >
>
> Not particularly.  I'm proud of my body of work, and like what I've
> done, but each book is an imperfect realization of what I had in mind
> when I sat down and started.  There's always things I could have done
> better.
>
> Best, R.E.F.

Does this raise the spectre of any future re-writes, or was Magician APE a one
off?  I'm guessing you're more interested in writing fresh stories, but not
being an author myself (big surprise, seeing the nonsense I put in all of these
e-mails... ;o> ), I wouldn't second guess you.

Mike,
Gibfish of the West

"Better to light a candle than to curse the darkness."
Confucius


_________________________________________________________
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Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com



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Subject: Rewriting (PotB Spoiler) (was RE: Conclave of shadows??)
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sun,  2 Dec 2001 20:58:01 +0100
Subject: Rewriting (PotB Spoiler) (was RE: Conclave of shadows??)
From: "Sylvain Guehl" <fenyxkell@demo.xandmail.com>
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> Does this raise the spectre of any future re-writes, or was Magician APE a one
> off? I'm guessing you're more interested in writing fresh stories, but not
> being an author myself (big surprise, seeing the nonsense I put in all of these
> e-mails... ;o> ), I wouldn't second guess you.
> 
> Mike,
> Gibfish of the West

I may be wrong, bu didn't Ray once mention he would have liked
changing/rewriting some things in PotB (like James's behavior
regarding Locklear's death, and maybe a couple of things about or with
Nakor) ?

Syl

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Subject: Re: Conclave of shadows??
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2001 17:17:33 -0800
Subject: Re: Conclave of shadows??
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Sunday, December 2, 2001, at 11:37 AM, Michael Gibson wrote:

>> On Friday, November 30, 2001, at 04:11 AM, Sylvain Guehl wrote:
>>
>>>> Writing is hard work. It's the best job I've ever had, but it's no 
>>>> day
>>>> at the beach. I'm pretty sick of a project when I'm done with it.
>>>>
>>>> Best, R.E.F.
>>>  
>>> Well, I suppose that after some time (a year ?) you come to be 
>>> "healed"
>>> of this "sickness" and start to be, at last, "proud" of your "old"
>>> project ?
>>>  
>>> Syl
>>>  
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Not particularly.  I'm proud of my body of work, and like what I've
>> done, but each book is an imperfect realization of what I had in mind
>> when I sat down and started.  There's always things I could have done
>> better.
>>
>> Best, R.E.F.
>
> Does this raise the spectre of any future re-writes, or was Magician 
> APE a one
> off?  I'm guessing you're more interested in writing fresh stories, but 
> not
> being an author myself (big surprise, seeing the nonsense I put in all 
> of these
> e-mails... ;o> ), I wouldn't second guess you.
>

The only book I might be interested in taking another crack at would be 
Prince of the Blood, because I've always felt I made a couple of 
dramatic choices that just didn't work, and the ending never satisfied 
me.

Best,R. E. F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon,  3 Dec 2001 11:41:21 +0100
Subject: Re: Conclave of shadows??
From: "Sylvain Guehl" <fenyxkell@demo.xandmail.com>
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> The only book I might be interested in taking another crack at would be 
> Prince of the Blood, because I've always felt I made a couple of 
> dramatic choices that just didn't work, and the ending never satisfied 
> me.
> 
> Best,R. E. F.

Great, my memory serves :o)

Syl

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Subject: Re: Conclave of shadows??
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Solaar" <Jody@tesco.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Conclave of shadows??
Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 12:20:30 -0000
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>The only book I might be interested in taking another crack at would be 
>Prince of the Blood, because I've always felt I made a couple of 
>dramatic choices that just didn't work, and the ending never satisfied 
>me.
>

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Would it be rude to ask what those choices were? 

I really liked Prince of the Blood - and I thought that the
introduction of Nakor was a masterstroke! ;o)

Solaar

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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2001 08:31:18 -0800
Subject: Re: Conclave of shadows??
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Tuesday, December 4, 2001, at 04:20 AM, Solaar wrote:

> The only book I might be interested in taking another crack at would be
> Prince of the Blood, because I've always felt I made a couple of
> dramatic choices that just didn't work, and the ending never satisfied
> me.

>
> Would it be rude to ask what those choices were?

Well, one at the start was my decision how to portray the twins.  I 
wanted them to be likeable spoiled brats, but they never were likeable, 
just spoiled brats.  Borric managed to evolve through the experience, 
but Erland never quite changed enough to show the impact of what he went 
through.  There were a couple of things I could have done differently 
with character development along the way.

There needed to be another villian; Nirome needed a henchman, a Basil 
Rathbone to his Claude Raines (Errol Flynn's Robin Hood reference), 
someone who could have been involved with a physical confrontation with 
Borric or Erland before "Detective Nakor Explains It All" at the end.

There were other things along the way.  I also needed a scene where we 
see Locklear leaving for his assignation with the Princess or arriving, 
to better set up the news that he's dead, even a bit on him where it 
looks he's disappeared and there's conjecture if he's a hostage, dead, 
whatever.

>  
> I really liked Prince of the Blood - and I thought that the 
> introduction of Nakor was a masterstroke! ;o)
>

Thanks.  That's the part of the book I enjoyed the most.

Best. R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.

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From: RBlackley@aol.com
Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2001 14:59:06 EST
Subject: Re: Conclave of shadows??
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prince of the blood is probebly my favorite also

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Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2001 17:29:25 -0700
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Conclave of shadows??
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Raymond Feist wrote:
> Well, one at the start was my decision how to portray the twins. I
> wanted them to be likeable spoiled brats, but they never were
> likeable, just spoiled brats.

Hey now! All of your characters are likeable! :)

> There were other things along the way. I also needed a scene where
> we see Locklear leaving for his assignation with the Princess or
> arriving, to better set up the news that he's dead, even a bit on
> him where it looks he's disappeared and there's conjecture if he's a
> hostage, dead, whatever.

Yeah, I recall that being quite odd when I was reading the book. It was
just like one of those "well, it happened" things, and those just don't
happen in your books, well, unless you're killing somebody :)

Craig J. Ries



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Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 22:16:37 EST
Subject: Big mistake
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From: XxTheHunkxx@cs.com
Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 22:16:37 EST
Subject: Big mistake
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       I was on my way to college this morning, and i was just finishing 
Shards of a Broken Crow ( great book by the way..) and i took a glance at the 
inside of the back cover (paperback) and i began reading your bio..."New your 
best selling author RAYMOND E. FEIST's precious novels include MAgician , 
silverthorn,........ THE QUEEN'S BUCCANEER !!!!  ... i just wanted to bring 
it to your attention.

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Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 22:37:32 EST
Subject: The wood boy
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From: XxTheHunkxx@cs.com
Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 22:37:32 EST
Subject: The wood boy
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On the way home from college i took out a book i bought online called 
Legends, it has a a bunch of short stories from diffrent best selling authors 
including Ray himself.
Rays story "The wood boy" was great, and i was just wondering are there any 
more like it? i mean short stories based on the land of Midkemia? wher can i 
get them? what are the names? and did you write the story spacificly for the 
book? or did you have to story just lying around?   one more.... how long 
does it take you to write a short story like that? 

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Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 23:07:44 EST
Subject: Tulan of the Isles 
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From: Adam012882@cs.com
Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 23:07:44 EST
Subject: Tulan of the Isles 
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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Tulan of the Isles : River-Port Nexus of Riches and Adventure (Universal 
Supplement Roleplaying Game System Ser)
    
       I was  just wondering what this is all about..

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From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: The wood boy
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Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 18:14:08 +1000 (GMT+1000)
From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: The wood boy
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

> On the way home from college i took out a book i bought online called
> Legends, it has a a bunch of short stories from diffrent best selling authors
> including Ray himself.
> Rays story "The wood boy" was great, and i was just wondering are there any
> more like it? i mean short stories based on the land of Midkemia? wher can i
> get them? what are the names? and did you write the story spacificly for the
> book? or did you have to story just lying around?   one more.... how long
> does it take you to write a short story like that?

Ray has two other short stories

A hall of the world's one named, "Profit and the Grey Assassin" (which may
be hard to get, but coincedently John Bunting is selling some:)

And Geraldo's Incredible Trick (non-midkemia) ... which can be found in
Margaret Weis's "A Magic lovers tomb of fantasy" (Think thats the names)

Thanks
Darragh
-=-=
www.iamtheporkfireman.com
[Email]: s356179@student.uq.edu.au [ICQ]: 114283262



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Subject: Re: Tulan of the Isles 
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Roleplaying game which Ray and a bunch of other developed previous to
Ray's Books.

> Tulan of the Isles : River-Port Nexus of Riches and Adventure (Universal
> Supplement Roleplaying Game System Ser)
>
>        I was  just wondering what this is all about..
>

Thanks
Darragh
-=-=
www.iamtheporkfireman.com
[Email]: s356179@student.uq.edu.au [ICQ]: 114283262



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From: Adam012882@cs.com
Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 12:51:15 EST
Subject: Re: Tulan of the Isles 
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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In a message dated 12/5/01 1:24:21 AM Pacific Standard Time, 
s356179@student.uq.edu.au writes:


> bunch of other developed previous to
> Ray's Books.
> 
> 

is it any good?

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From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
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Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 18:53:34 +1000 (GMT+1000)
From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Tulan of the Isles 
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> > bunch of other developed previous to
> > Ray's Books.
> is it any good?

I've never played it, but it is loosely similiar to Advanced Dungeons and
Dragons...(which I've played and that is good)

Thanks
Darragh
-=-=
www.iamtheporkfireman.com
[Email]: s356179@student.uq.edu.au [ICQ]: 114283262



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When is your next book coming?

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp



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Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 20:43:47 -0000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Michael Gibson" <gibbyfish@yahoo.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: New book
Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 20:43:47 -0000
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> When is your next book coming?

At present, I don't have a publisher, and the book isn't finished (hardly even
started), so not for the foreseeable future.

Oh, sorry, you meant Ray... ;)  According to Amazon.co.uk, Murder in Lamut will
be available from the 7th of May, 2002 (you can even preorder the trade pb,
pencilled in for next December if you so wish).

Mike,
Gibfish of the West

"Better to light a candle than to curse the darkness."
Confucius


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
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To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: OT: Josh Kirby
Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 20:47:19 -0000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Michael Gibson" <gibbyfish@yahoo.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: OT: Josh Kirby
Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 20:47:19 -0000
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I know this is old news now, I've just read that Josh Kirby (the cover artist
for Terry Pratchett, among other things) died in October.  To me his art just
seemed to elegantly capture the feel of Discworld.

A sad loss.

Mike,
Gibfish of the West

"Better to light a candle than to curse the darkness."
Confucius


_________________________________________________________
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From: "Rob Kolech" <rkolech1@hotmail.com>
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Subject: RE: New book
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From: "Rob Kolech" <rkolech1@hotmail.com>
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Subject: RE: New book
Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 17:35:07 -0800
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We can only hope for the 7th of May.  The last book was pushed back
about a month so I would not hold my breth but it would be nice!

Rob K

-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Michael Gibson
>Sent: December 6, 2001 12:44 PM
>To: FEISTFANS-L
>Subject: RE: New book
>
>
>> When is your next book coming?
>
>At present, I don't have a publisher, and the book isn't finished
>(hardly even started), so not for the foreseeable future.
>
>Oh, sorry, you meant Ray... ;)  According to Amazon.co.uk, Murder in
>Lamut will be available from the 7th of May, 2002 (you can even preorder
>the trade pb, pencilled in for next December if you so wish).
>
>Mike,
>Gibfish of the West
>
>"Better to light a candle than to curse the darkness." Confucius
>
>
>_________________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
>


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Subject: Re: New book
Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 03:41:06 +0100
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From: "Geir T. Flognfeldt" <gflognf@online.no>
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Subject: Re: New book
Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 03:41:06 +0100
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>(you can even preorder the trade pb, pencilled in for next December if you
>so wish).

Well, why not... I have already pre-ordered George R R Martin's next book,
set for next November... At the time I believed it was this year, but
still... @;o)=

Geir
Yes, I'm still here, folks...



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Subject: RE: New book
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 09:55:31 +0000
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: RE: New book
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

At 08:43 PM 12/6/01 +0000, Michael Gibson wrote:
>> When is your next book coming?
>
>At present, I don't have a publisher, and the book isn't finished (hardly even
>started), so not for the foreseeable future.

Wait, if we are flogging our own books now, there's always
the complete first draft of my latest work, 'SOS' (80,000* 
words, in one month... www.nanowrimo.com ... you gotta love 
the idea and you gotta love Donna for pointing it out to me, 
albeit unexpectedly)

rip
* manuscript count, ie a 'word' is six characters.



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Subject: Re: New book
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: New book
Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 04:17:55 -0600
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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> Wait, if we are flogging our own books now, there's always
> the complete first draft of my latest work, 'SOS' (80,000*
> words, in one month... www.nanowrimo.com ... you gotta love
> the idea and you gotta love Donna for pointing it out to me,
> albeit unexpectedly)
>
> rip
> * manuscript count, ie a 'word' is six characters.

I thought it was only 4.  Or is that just for common usage? :P

Geez, I my poor book of poems and short stories is only up to a
pathetic 16,548 words according to Microsoft (not that I trust them
to count accurately).  Of course that might be because for the last
year or so I've been working on things like a thesis project.  Hmm,
book vs. thesis...oh well back to work on the thesis (which is still
amazingly short...I suppose that means I need to collect some more
data now...Anyone want to go to the beach?).



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 10:39:47 +0000
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From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: OT was re: New book
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At 04:17 AM 12/7/01 -0600, James Young wrote:
>> * manuscript count, ie a 'word' is six characters.
>
>I thought it was only 4.  Or is that just for common usage? :P

Actually, through my investigations, the actual word length
is approximately 5.7 characters per word.  But only I would
care, right?

>Geez, I my poor book of poems and short stories is only up to a
>pathetic 16,548 words according to Microsoft (not that I trust them
>to count accurately). 

The 'word count' function in ClarisWorks (sorry, 'AppleWorks'
now) says that my novel is 57k+ words.  Which is why I like
using the 'manuscript' rules (monospace characters per line,
divide by six.  Multiply by number of lines per page.  Multiply
by number of pages.  Round up to nearest 100 words.)

rip



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*** EOOH ***
From: "A Irving" <aignome@dingoblue.net.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: archive on the web
Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2001 15:16:32 +1000
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does everyone here know that all emails they send are being placed on the
web?
http://lists.panaverse.com anyway, I don't mind, I was just surprised to see
my own emails on their website. It is run by Steven Isaacson I think. I
would have liked to be told, but its ok :)
CIAO,
            Aaron

http://www.hallofworlds.net/kerr/main.php
http://www.nightshadow.co.uk



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From: Larry Siegel <larry@psihawk.com>
Subject: {OT] EQ
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sun, 09 Dec 2001 12:17:11 -0500
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Larry Siegel <larry@psihawk.com>
Subject: {OT] EQ
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


Short and sweet... I know it's OT.

I am asking for any Everquest Players who might be willing to help me out.
I picked up the Game on Fri and have a Lev 1 Rouge on The Rathe Server.

I am not finding the community as helpful to newbies as I hoped.

Please keep this off list and email me directly....

Thanks.

*PS* Feel free to flame me privately, but don't waste list traffic with flames.

--
Larry (PsiHawk)
--
PsiHawk's Home Page
     http://www.psihawk.com
--
Raymond E Feist FAQ Page
     http://www.psihawk.com/feist



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From: "Ian Robinson" <marmotjuice@hotmail.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
References: <000901c18070$ab0664e0$f1f6fea9@oemcomputer>
Subject: Re: archive on the web
Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2001 23:23:46 -0000
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*** EOOH ***
X-Originating-IP: [194.145.134.5]
From: "Ian Robinson" <marmotjuice@hotmail.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: archive on the web
Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2001 23:23:46 -0000
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As far as I'm aware that kind of thing is fairly standard practise with
mailing lists...

- Ian



> does everyone here know that all emails they send are being placed on the
> web?
> http://lists.panaverse.com anyway, I don't mind, I was just surprised to see
> my own emails on their website. It is run by Steven Isaacson I think. I
> would have liked to be told, but its ok :)
> CIAO,



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From: Chad Keffer <chadkeffer@yahoo.com>
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Nalar's Opposing Goddess?
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2001 19:36:28 -0800 (PST)
From: Chad Keffer <chadkeffer@yahoo.com>
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Nalar's Opposing Goddess?
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Ray,

Will you next series of novels set in Midkemia develop
the opposite-of-Nalar Goddess any more? (sorry, I
forget her name and I don't have the time to thumb
through the Serpentwar Saga for it) :)

Thanks,

Chad Keffer
feistfan@chadkeffer.com


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send your FREE holiday greetings online!
http://greetings.yahoo.com



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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: John <john@crydee.com>
Subject: Re: archive on the web
References: <000901c18070$ab0664e0$f1f6fea9@oemcomputer>
 <DAV25fCDCEYio04tD6l0000e513@hotmail.com>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 06:52:31 +0000
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: John <john@crydee.com>
Subject: Re: archive on the web
User-Agent: Turnpike/6.00-U (<x5sqXV$6+zj$GDJXMMY4QwhIW3>)
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Ian Robinson <marmotjuice@hotmail.com> writes
>As far as I'm aware that kind of thing is fairly standard practise with
>mailing lists...
>
>- Ian

The cause for concern though is that there is an official archive.
I would liked to have known first

-- 
John

john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.

Raymond E Feist Ring
http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2001 23:59:05 -0800
Subject: Re: Nalar's Opposing Goddess?
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On Sunday, December 9, 2001, at 07:36 PM, Chad Keffer wrote:

> Ray,
>
> Will you next series of novels set in Midkemia develop
> the opposite-of-Nalar Goddess any more? (sorry, I
> forget her name and I don't have the time to thumb
> through the Serpentwar Saga for it) :)
>
> Thanks,
>
> Chad Keffer
> feistfan@chadkeffer.com
>

Nope.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 00:00:49 -0800
Subject: Re: archive on the web
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 00:00:49 -0800
Subject: Re: archive on the web
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Sunday, December 9, 2001, at 10:52 PM, John wrote:

> Ian Robinson <marmotjuice@hotmail.com> writes
>> As far as I'm aware that kind of thing is fairly standard practise with
>> mailing lists...
>>
>> - Ian
>
> The cause for concern though is that there is an official archive.
> I would liked to have known first
>
> -- John
>

There's no such thing as an "official" acrhive on the web.  Used to be 
you could find dozens of list postings dating back years floating around 
on various servers, and then they all got indexed via DejaVu, which is 
now part of the Google search engine.  All usenet lists are, by 
definition, public, and if you post it, it's out there for the world to 
see; and as many of us know, if it's on the internet, it never truly 
dies.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
In-reply-to: <jZAjIaAvuFF8Ew1i@cableinet.co.uk> (message from John on Mon, 10
	Dec 2001 06:52:31 +0000)
Subject: Re: archive on the web
References: <000901c18070$ab0664e0$f1f6fea9@oemcomputer>
 <DAV25fCDCEYio04tD6l0000e513@hotmail.com> <jZAjIaAvuFF8Ew1i@cableinet.co.uk>
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Donal K. Fellows" <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: archive on the web
Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 09:03:43 +0000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

John <john@crydee.com>
> Ian Robinson <marmotjuice@hotmail.com> writes
>> As far as I'm aware that kind of thing is fairly standard practise with
>> mailing lists...
> 
> The cause for concern though is that there is an official archive.
> I would liked to have known first

Of *course* there is an official archive.  It's mine (by virtue of
being oldest and most complete.)  Maybe others look fancier, but bells
and whistles do not make anything official...

Donal.
-- 
Donal K. Fellows, Department of Computer Science, University of Manchester, UK.
(work) fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk     Tel: +44-161-275-6137  (preferred email addr.)
(home) donal@ugglan.demon.co.uk  Tel: +44-1274-401017   Mobile: +44-7957-298955
http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~fellowsd/  (Don't quote my .sig; I've seen it before!)



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*** EOOH ***
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In a message dated 12/10/01 12:05:14 AM Pacific Standard Time, 
raymond@bittersea.com writes:
> All usenet lists are, by 
> definition, public, and if you post it, it's out there for the world to 
> see; and as many of us know, if it's on the internet, it never truly 
> dies.
> 
> Best, R.E.F.

This is so true. I received a phone call from someone on your side of the 
nation recently wanting to talk to me about the use of polysulfated 
glycosaminoglycans for the treatment of degenerative joint disease in dogs. I 
asked how he came across my name. Apparently, a comment I had made over 10 
years ago on VETMED-L has found its way onto animal related sites around the 
world. Use of the Internet can erode our anonymity.

-Ralph
Visit Elvandar and the Unofficial Atlas to the worlds of Raymond E. Feist
http://www.elvandar.com



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Subject: Re: Nalar's Opposing Goddess?
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 16:51:02 +0100
Subject: Re: Nalar's Opposing Goddess?
From: "Sylvain Guehl" <fenyxkell@demo.xandmail.com>
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> 
> On Sunday, December 9, 2001, at 07:36 PM, Chad Keffer wrote:
> 
> > Ray,
> >
> > Will you next series of novels set in Midkemia develop
> > the opposite-of-Nalar Goddess any more? (sorry, I
> > forget her name and I don't have the time to thumb
> > through the Serpentwar Saga for it) :)
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Chad Keffer
> > feistfan@chadkeffer.com
> >
> 
> Nope.
> 
> Best, R.E.F.

Well... well... well why did you have Nakor start something so
important without having the reader at least get a glimpse on how it
going 30 years later ? Or maybe it's too short in time to have this
new "belief" spreading around the Kingdom. Specialy up to the Eastern
end of the Kingdom. Ok well, just forget my question :) lol.

Syl

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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 08:15:14 -0800
Subject: Re: Nalar's Opposing Goddess?
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On Monday, December 10, 2001, at 07:51 AM, Sylvain Guehl wrote:

> >
> > On Sunday, December 9, 2001, at 07:36 PM, Chad Keffer wrote:
> >
> > > Ray,
> > >
> > > Will you next series of novels set in Midkemia develop
> > > the opposite-of-Nalar Goddess any more? (sorry, I
> > > forget her name and I don't have the time to thumb
> > > through the Serpentwar Saga for it) :)
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > Chad Keffer
> > > feistfan@chadkeffer.com
> > >
> >
> > Nope.
> >
> > Best, R.E.F.
>  
> Well... well... well why did you have Nakor start something so 
> important without having the reader at least get a glimpse on how it 
> going 30 years later ? Or maybe it's too short in time to have this new 
> "belief" spreading around the Kingdom. Specialy up to the Eastern end 
> of the Kingdom. Ok well, just forget my question :) lol.
>  
> Syl
>  
>
>

It's forgotten.

Best,R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 08:16:05 -0800
Subject: LOTR
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
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See it.

Incredible.

Caught an advance screening and it will amaze and astonish you.  The 
details are . . . well, let's just say that for 3 hours, New Zealand is 
a credible Middle Earth.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 17:04:07 +0000
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Al Burl <al.burl@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Nalar's Opposing Goddess?
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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At 08:15 10/12/2001 -0800, you wrote:

>On Monday, December 10, 2001, at 07:51 AM, Sylvain Guehl wrote:
>
>> >
>> > On Sunday, December 9, 2001, at 07:36 PM, Chad Keffer wrote:
>> >
>> > > Ray,
>> > >
>> > > Will you next series of novels set in Midkemia develop
>> > > the opposite-of-Nalar Goddess any more? (sorry, I
>> > > forget her name and I don't have the time to thumb
>> > > through the Serpentwar Saga for it) :)
>> > >
>> > > Thanks,
>> > >
>> > > Chad Keffer
>> > > feistfan@chadkeffer.com
>> > >
>> >
>> > Nope.
>> >
>> > Best, R.E.F.
>>
>>Well... well... well why did you have Nakor start something so important 
>>without having the reader at least get a glimpse on how it going 30 years 
>>later ? Or maybe it's too short in time to have this new "belief" 
>>spreading around the Kingdom. Specialy up to the Eastern end of the 
>>Kingdom. Ok well, just forget my question :) lol.
>>
>>Syl
>>
>>
>
>It's forgotten.
>
>Best,R.E.F.
>----

For a writer, he sure is a man of few words. <big grin>

Al



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Subject: Re: Nalar's Opposing Goddess?
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I suppose new religions don't always catch on :)
Does Hilda from Tear of the Gods have anything to do with Nakor's religion?
- Ian

> > >
> > > > Ray,
> > > >
> > > > Will you next series of novels set in Midkemia develop
> > > > the opposite-of-Nalar Goddess any more? (sorry, I
> > > > forget her name and I don't have the time to thumb
> > > > through the Serpentwar Saga for it) :)
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > >
> > > > Chad Keffer
> > > > feistfan@chadkeffer.com
> > > >
> > >
> > > Nope.
> > >
> > > Best, R.E.F.
> > 
> >
> 
> It's forgotten.
> 
> Best,R.E.F.
> ----



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*** EOOH ***
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On Mon, 10 December 2001, Raymond Feist wrote:

> 
> See it.
> 
> Incredible.
> 
> Caught an advance screening and it will amaze and astonish you.  The 
> details are . . . well, let's just say that for 3 hours, New Zealand is 
> a credible Middle Earth.
> 
> Best, R.E.F.

  
 Oh, man...I just can't wait! 3 hours?? Cool. Sadly, Hubby already
told me we will be going the scond week to see it because of the
crowds. Just went through that with the 'Family Harry Potter Outing'.

 The trailers and teasers look fantastic. Thanks for the heads up.
  
  have a happy Yule, Y'all.
  
   Anita

___________________________________________________________________
Join the Space Program: Get FREE E-mail at http://www.space.com.



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From: Valheru22@aol.com
Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 15:22:26 EST
Subject: Re: LOTR
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Ray Is LOTR just like the book or is there alot changed?
  
-Chance

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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 12:52:21 -0800
Subject: Re: LOTR
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Monday, December 10, 2001, at 12:22 PM, Valheru22@aol.com wrote:

> Ray Is LOTR just like the book or is there alot changed?
>  
> -Chance
>
>
>

It's very true to the book, but obviously, even at nine hours they 
couldn't put in every detail of the books.  And, the narrative style is 
simply impossible to translate from book to screen.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.

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Subject: Re: LOTR
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Solaar" <Jody@tesco.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: LOTR
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 21:52:41 -0000
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>It's very true to the book, but obviously, even at nine hours they
>couldn't put in every detail of the books. And, the narrative style
>is simply impossible to translate from book to screen.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Thanks for that comment - because that means that there are 3 films, right??

  I've been arguing with a friend who says that it is a one-off film
  of the trilogy....

  Solaar
  scratching his head

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Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 16:59:30 EST
Subject: Shaskahan Islands
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*** EOOH ***
From: RMAskren@aol.com
Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 16:59:30 EST
Subject: Shaskahan Islands
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Hi Ray,

Can you share some details on where the Shaskahan Islands are located?

Thanks,

-Ralph
Visit Elvandar and the Unofficial Atlas to the worlds of Raymond E. Feist
http://www.elvandar.com



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Subject: RE: LOTR
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*** EOOH ***
From: Allan Mills <milla@css.com.au>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" (FEISTFANS-L) <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: LOTR
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 09:07:59 +1100
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 Please check the format your e-mail client is using. Set it to text for
this list, not HTML.
 
 There are three movies planned and they have been filming them all at once.
 
 Allan

-----Original Message-----
>From: Solaar [mailto:Jody@tesco.net]
>Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2001 8:53 AM
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: Re: LOTR
>
>
>
>It's very true to the book, but obviously, even at nine hours they couldn't
>put in every detail of the books. And, the narrative style is simply
>impossible to translate from book to screen.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>
>  _____  
>
>Thanks for that comment - because that means that there are 3 films, right??
> 
>I've been arguing with a friend who says that it is a one-off film of the
>trilogy....
> 
>Solaar
>scratching his head

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*** EOOH ***
From: "David Tsang" <dave.tsang@btinternet.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: LOTR
Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 22:25:34 -0000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Hi everyone,

This is my first post to the mailing list... Anyway, yes, there are three films
which have all been filmed back to back. I suggest you point your friend to
this URL: http://uk.news.yahoo.com/011210/80/cl0hl.html That way the
pointless argument can cease with you winning. Besides, Feist fans are 
rarely wrong.

Kind regards,
David Tsang.
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: Solaar 
>To: FEISTFANS-L 
>Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2001 9:52 PM
>Subject: Re: LOTR
>
>
>  It's very true to the book, but obviously, even at nine hours they couldn't put in every detail of the books. And, the narrative style is simply impossible to translate from book to screen.
>
>  Best, R.E.F.
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  Thanks for that comment - because that means that there are 3 films, right??
>
>  I've been arguing with a friend who says that it is a one-off film of the trilogy....
>
>  Solaar
>  scratching his head

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Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 09:35:39 +1100
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 09:35:39 +1100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Scott Nimmo <snimmo@connect.com.au>
Subject: Re: LOTR
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At 03:16 AM 11/12/2001 , Raymond Feist wrote:

>Caught an advance screening and it will amaze and astonish you.  The
>details are . . . well, let's just say that for 3 hours, New Zealand
>is a credible Middle Earth.

Unfortunately being Australian, means I won't get to see the film 'til
Dec-26; however I went to NZ during my honeymoon last year and visited
various film sites.

The first was the quarry towards Upper Hutt in Wellington, a few
places the local tourist bureau pointed out and got dark looks from my
wife for driving 120km out of the way to see Edoras, built on top of a
natural rock formation 60km out of Methven (two days before being
pulled down).

There were other places I checked out, but each site seemed to suit
the equivalent Middle Earth location all too well.

regards,
Scott



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 09:21:59 +1100 (EST)
From: David Smith - NT Interoperability Engineer <David.M.Smith@Sun.COM>
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: LOTR
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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»   It's very true to the book, but obviously, even at nine hours they couldn't
»put in every detail of the books. And, the narrative style is simply impossible
»to translate from book to screen.
» 
»   Best, R.E.F.
» 
» ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
»   Thanks for that comment - because that means that there are 3 films, right??
» 
»   I've been arguing with a friend who says that it is a one-off film of the 
»trilogy....
» 
»   Solaar
»   scratching his head


3 films it is... release dates are the 26th December 2001, 2002, 2003.

-- David Smith



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Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 17:40:27 -0700
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: LOTR
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Raymond Feist wrote:
> 
> See it.
> 
> Incredible.
> 
> Caught an advance screening and it will amaze and astonish you.  The
> details are . . . well, let's just say that for 3 hours, New Zealand is
> a credible Middle Earth.

Was reading on Cinescape today that a producer has also picked up the
rights to all seven Chronicles of Narnia books and he has Warner
Bros/New Line in mind to have them make the movies.
And is eyeing 2004 for the first book, The Lion, The Witch, and the
Wardrobe.

I honestly believed it was only a matter of time, with the current trend
toward fantasy, before somebody thought about giving Lewis's classics a
go :)

Craig J. Ries



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From: Simon Rönnberg <rhuagh@acc.umu.se>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 02:50:58 +0100
From: Simon Rönnberg <rhuagh@acc.umu.se>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: LOTR
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> 3 films it is... release dates are the 26th December 2001, 2002, 2003.

I don't know about movies 2 and 3, but the first one will be released
Dec 19th. The premiere here in Sweden is 00.01 on that day.

Cheers,
Simon

-- 
Simon Rönnberg,    adm@acc.umu.se |  rhuagh@acc.umu.se
Stipendiegränd 6A, 070-5631747    |  simion@cs.umu.se
907 35 Umeå
--
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From: Tim Nicholas <tim@nicholas.net.nz>
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Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 14:59:33 +1300
From: Tim Nicholas <tim@nicholas.net.nz>
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On Tue, Dec 11, 2001 at 09:21:59AM +1100, David Smith - NT Interoperability Engineer wrote:
> 3 films it is... release dates are the 26th December 2001, 2002, 2003.
> 

Funny... The ticket i have in front of me says 

"Fellowship of Th
12:01AM Thursday 20 Dec 01"

I was of the impression, that we were getting it at the same time as
the rest of the world, rather than eariler. I am rather happy to be
able to go to the Midnight opening.... I'm really looking forward to
it.

Tim

-- 
Tim Nicholas                          ||                      Cilix
Email: tim@nicholas.net.nz            ||       Dunedin, New Zealand
http://tim.nicholas.net.nz/           ||  Cell/SMS: +64 21 113 0399
"Grow up, Larry. You give me too much credit." - Linus Torvalds



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From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 18:03:22 -0800
Subject: Re: Shaskahan Islands
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Monday, December 10, 2001, at 01:59 PM, RMAskren@aol.com wrote:

> Hi Ray,
>
> Can you share some details on where the Shaskahan Islands are located?
>
> Thanks,
>
> -Ralph
> Visit Elvandar and the Unofficial Atlas to the worlds of Raymond E. 
> Feist
> http://www.elvandar.com
>
>
>
>

Pretty much in the middle of the ocean.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 21:05:01 EST
Subject: Re: LOTR
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*** EOOH ***
From: Valheru22@aol.com
Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 21:05:01 EST
Subject: Re: LOTR
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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Yes it is strange I went ot the bookstore they had a poster that said the 
18th then on T.V. it said the 19th it is confusing!

-Chance

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From: Allan Mills <milla@css.com.au>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" (FEISTFANS-L) <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: LOTR
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 13:10:32 +1100
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*** EOOH ***
From: Allan Mills <milla@css.com.au>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" (FEISTFANS-L) <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: LOTR
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 13:10:32 +1100
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 Unless you drink some coffee or Jolt Cola or Red Bull or something to keep
you awake I don't see why. At midnight your body will be tired and your mind
won't be able to take in the movie very well.

 I remember one schools excursion where we went to see Hunt for the Red
October. We hadn't had much sleep and I couldn't focus on the movie at all.
Only years later when I saw it on video that I realised it had been the same
movie and that it was actually pretty good.

 Allan

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tim Nicholas [mailto:tim@nicholas.net.nz]
> Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2001 1:00 PM
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Subject: Re: LOTR
> 
> 
> On Tue, Dec 11, 2001 at 09:21:59AM +1100, David Smith - NT 
> Interoperability Engineer wrote:
> > 3 films it is... release dates are the 26th December 2001, 
> 2002, 2003.
> > 
> 
> Funny... The ticket i have in front of me says 
> 
> "Fellowship of Th
> 12:01AM Thursday 20 Dec 01"
> 
> I was of the impression, that we were getting it at the same time as
> the rest of the world, rather than eariler. I am rather happy to be
> able to go to the Midnight opening.... I'm really looking forward to
> it.
> 
> Tim
> 
> -- 
> Tim Nicholas                          ||                      Cilix
> Email: tim@nicholas.net.nz            ||       Dunedin, New Zealand
> http://tim.nicholas.net.nz/           ||  Cell/SMS: +64 21 113 0399
> "Grow up, Larry. You give me too much credit." - Linus Torvalds
> 



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From: Simon Rönnberg <rhuagh@acc.umu.se>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: LOTR
Message-ID: <20011211031208.A11929@khan.acc.umu.se>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 03:12:08 +0100
From: Simon Rönnberg <rhuagh@acc.umu.se>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: LOTR
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> "Fellowship of Th
> 12:01AM Thursday 20 Dec 01"
> 
> I was of the impression, that we were getting it at the same time as
> the rest of the world, rather than eariler. I am rather happy to be
> able to go to the Midnight opening.... I'm really looking forward to
> it.

I'm not exactly certain about this but I've heard that it's airing at
the same time local time in every timezone, meaning it will air 00.01
CET for me, 00.01 EST for NY and so on.. If that's true, Europe for
instance will see it 6 hours before the Northamerican east coast.

But as I said, this is only a rumour I've heard.

Cheers,
Simon

-- 
Simon Rönnberg,    adm@acc.umu.se |  rhuagh@acc.umu.se
Stipendiegränd 6A, 070-5631747    |  simion@cs.umu.se
907 35 Umeå
--
"God, root, what is difference?" - Pitr, www.userfriendly.org
--



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From: Simon Rönnberg <rhuagh@acc.umu.se>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: LOTR
Message-ID: <20011211031851.A12481@khan.acc.umu.se>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 03:18:51 +0100
From: Simon Rönnberg <rhuagh@acc.umu.se>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: LOTR
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>  Unless you drink some coffee or Jolt Cola or Red Bull or something to keep
> you awake I don't see why. At midnight your body will be tired and your mind
> won't be able to take in the movie very well.

We computer nerds wake up just in time for the airing so.. ;)

Cheers,
Simon

-- 
Simon Rönnberg,    adm@acc.umu.se |  rhuagh@acc.umu.se
Stipendiegränd 6A, 070-5631747    |  simion@cs.umu.se
907 35 Umeå
--
"God, root, what is difference?" - Pitr, www.userfriendly.org
--



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 13:22:09 +1100 (EST)
From: David Smith - NT Interoperability Engineer <David.M.Smith@Sun.COM>
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: LOTR
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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» > 3 films it is... release dates are the 26th December 2001, 2002, 2003.
» 
» I don't know about movies 2 and 3, but the first one will be released
» Dec 19th. The premiere here in Sweden is 00.01 on that day.
» 
» Cheers,
» Simon

Interesting... I thought they had set the release date to be the same world 
wide. Hmmm, it seems set for the 19th around most of the world... except 
Australia. Typical :(

-- David Smith



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To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" (FEISTFANS-L) <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: LOTR
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 13:28:09 +1100
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*** EOOH ***
From: Allan Mills <milla@css.com.au>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" (FEISTFANS-L) <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: LOTR
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 13:28:09 +1100
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

 Your probably lucky it's winter in the Northern Hemisphere. It's summer
down here and I always feel like hibernating for the entire season.

 Allan

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Simon Rönnberg [mailto:rhuagh@acc.umu.se]
> Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2001 1:19 PM
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Subject: Re: LOTR
> 
> 
> >  Unless you drink some coffee or Jolt Cola or Red Bull or 
> something to keep
> > you awake I don't see why. At midnight your body will be 
> tired and your mind
> > won't be able to take in the movie very well.
> 
> We computer nerds wake up just in time for the airing so.. ;)
> 
> Cheers,
> Simon
> 
> -- 
> Simon Rönnberg,    adm@acc.umu.se |  rhuagh@acc.umu.se
> Stipendiegränd 6A, 070-5631747    |  simion@cs.umu.se
> 907 35 Umeå
> --
> "God, root, what is difference?" - Pitr, www.userfriendly.org
> --
> 



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From: "A Irving" <aignome@dingoblue.net.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
References: <E3A4AA1DA7B41849A632450233B5423A178050@css01.css.com.au> <20011211031851.A12481@khan.acc.umu.se>
Subject: Re: LOTR
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 12:37:53 +1000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "A Irving" <aignome@dingoblue.net.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: LOTR
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 12:37:53 +1000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Australia is a week later than most other places around the world, the 26th
December, Boxing day is very big for movie cinemas as a lot of people here
tend to go on that day. They probably just wanetd to open when they would
make the most money.
----- Original Message -----
From: Simon Rönnberg <rhuagh@acc.umu.se>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2001 12:18 PM
Subject: Re: LOTR


> >  Unless you drink some coffee or Jolt Cola or Red Bull or something to keep
> > you awake I don't see why. At midnight your body will be tired and your mind
> > won't be able to take in the movie very well.
>
> We computer nerds wake up just in time for the airing so.. ;)
>
> Cheers,
> Simon
>
> --
> Simon Rönnberg,    adm@acc.umu.se |  rhuagh@acc.umu.se
> Stipendiegränd 6A, 070-5631747    |  simion@cs.umu.se
> 907 35 Umeå
> --
> "God, root, what is difference?" - Pitr, www.userfriendly.org
> --
>



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 19:55:32 -0700
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: LOTR
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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David Smith - NT Interoperability Engineer wrote:
> 
> Interesting... I thought they had set the release date to be the same world
> wide. Hmmm, it seems set for the 19th around most of the world... except
> Australia. Typical :(

An article I read stated that Fellowship will open in over 10,000
cinemas world-wide on the 19th.

If Australia isn't getting it until the 26th, you guys could be the only
ones left out a week :P

Craig J. Ries



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 14:02:30 +1100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Scott Nimmo <snimmo@connect.com.au>
Subject: Re: LOTR
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

At 01:22 PM 11/12/2001 , you wrote:
>» > 3 films it is... release dates are the 26th December 2001, 2002, 2003.
>» 
>» I don't know about movies 2 and 3, but the first one will be released
>» Dec 19th. The premiere here in Sweden is 00.01 on that day.
>
>Interesting... I thought they had set the release date to be the same world 
>wide. Hmmm, it seems set for the 19th around most of the world... except 
>Australia. Typical :(

Not the case, the release dates are at:
http://www.theonering.org/movie/dates.html

The rumour often heard to why Australia rarely gets films on the same
week as the US, is that there are people with influence that do not like the idea 
that timezones like AU/NZ might see the film about a day before the US.
(I have heard this so often it is virtually considered fact).

The rational explanation might be that local companies want to see box-office
takings in the US to decide the number of screenings.
Oh and Dec-26 is the busiest day for cinemas in Australia.

I did hear that Peter Jackson wished to show it in NZ on the first day of release.

regards,
Scott



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From: "Julie Wootten" <wootten@xtra.co.nz>
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References: <200112102222.JAA07121@war.Aus.Sun.COM> <20011211145933.A11999@nicholas.net.nz>
Subject: Re: LOTR
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 18:48:05 +1300
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Julie Wootten" <wootten@xtra.co.nz>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: LOTR
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 18:48:05 +1300
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Hrm.  I am officially miffed now.  I was of the understanding that the
Premieres of LOTR were on the 19th - and it finished just around
midnight (in NZ at least), and then the first screening - looks like
the one Tim is going to - starts just a minute later on the 20th.  And
due to the time zone difference, NZ public would be the first to see
it.  Guess that got overruled.

At least it will be interesting to see those who didn't think Peter
Jackson & NZ were up to LOTR eat their words.

Julie.

> On Tue, Dec 11, 2001 at 09:21:59AM +1100, David Smith - NT Interoperability Engineer wrote:
> > 3 films it is... release dates are the 26th December 2001, 2002, 2003.
>
> Funny... The ticket i have in front of me says
>
> "Fellowship of Th
> 12:01AM Thursday 20 Dec 01"
>
> I was of the impression, that we were getting it at the same time as
> the rest of the world, rather than eariler. I am rather happy to be
> able to go to the Midnight opening.... I'm really looking forward to
> it.
>
> Tim




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Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 17:05:08 +1100
Subject: Re: LOTR
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*** EOOH ***
From: Brad_A_Krahe@allegiance.com.au
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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 17:05:08 +1100
Subject: Re: LOTR
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I'm a big Peter Jackson fan, but if you ever saw his first few films only
(Bad Taste, Meet the feebles, Brain Dead) before you saw any trailers for
LOTR you probably would have been one of those people doubting him also.

Regards,

Brad

>
>"Julie Wootten" <wootten@xtra.co.nz> on 11/12/2001 16:48:05
>
>Please respond to FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>
>To:   FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
>cc:    (bcc: Brad A Krahe/HCS)
>Subject:  Re: LOTR
>
>
>
>
>Hrm.  I am officially miffed now.  I was of the understanding that the
>Premieres of LOTR were on the 19th - and it finished just around
>midnight (in NZ at least), and then the first screening - looks like
>the one Tim is going to - starts just a minute later on the 20th.  And
>due to the time zone difference, NZ public would be the first to see
>it.  Guess that got overruled.
>
>At least it will be interesting to see those who didn't think Peter
>Jackson & NZ were up to LOTR eat their words.
>
>Julie.
>
>> On Tue, Dec 11, 2001 at 09:21:59AM +1100, David Smith - NT
>Interoperability Engineer wrote:
>> > 3 films it is... release dates are the 26th December 2001, 2002, 2003.
>>
>> Funny... The ticket i have in front of me says
>>
>> "Fellowship of Th
>> 12:01AM Thursday 20 Dec 01"
>>
>> I was of the impression, that we were getting it at the same time as
>> the rest of the world, rather than eariler. I am rather happy to be
>> able to go to the Midnight opening.... I'm really looking forward to
>> it.
>>
>> Tim
>

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Subject: OT: Narnia movies
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 16:58:50 +1100
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Barker" <heechee@softhome.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: OT: Narnia movies
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 16:58:50 +1100
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2001 11:40 AM
Subject: Re: LOTR


> Was reading on Cinescape today that a producer has also picked up the
> rights to all seven Chronicles of Narnia books and he has Warner
> Bros/New Line in mind to have them make the movies.
> And is eyeing 2004 for the first book, The Lion, The Witch, and the
> Wardrobe.
>
> I honestly believed it was only a matter of time, with the current trend
> toward fantasy, before somebody thought about giving Lewis's classics a
> go :)

Do you (or anyone else out there) know if they going to give The Magician's
Nephew a go? Or are they going to go straight into The Lion, The Witch, and
The Wardrobe?

I really hope they do Magician's Nephew... Some of the scenes would be very
interesting to see filmed.

Cheers,
James



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Subject: Re: Narnia movies
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From: "Andy Hogan" <andyhogan@dcsi.net.au>
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Subject: Re: Narnia movies
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I'm a Narnia fan, having read the books since I was a kid, watched the
cartoons, and the TV series as well. Its one of those great memories from
when I was a kid. I would love to see the Magician's Nephew done, just as
always, I'd hate to see it done in a way that distroys all the imagry in my
mind when i daydream back to them...

`Andy


----- Original Message -----
From: "James Barker" <heechee@softhome.net>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2001 4:58 PM
Subject: OT: Narnia movies


>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
> To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2001 11:40 AM
> Subject: Re: LOTR
>
>
> > Was reading on Cinescape today that a producer has also picked up the
> > rights to all seven Chronicles of Narnia books and he has Warner
> > Bros/New Line in mind to have them make the movies.
> > And is eyeing 2004 for the first book, The Lion, The Witch, and the
> > Wardrobe.
> >
> > I honestly believed it was only a matter of time, with the current trend
> > toward fantasy, before somebody thought about giving Lewis's classics a
> > go :)
>
> Do you (or anyone else out there) know if they going to give The Magician's
> Nephew a go? Or are they going to go straight into The Lion, The Witch, and
> The Wardrobe?
>
> I really hope they do Magician's Nephew... Some of the scenes would be very
> interesting to see filmed.
>
> Cheers,
> James
>



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From: Tim Nicholas <tim@nicholas.net.nz>
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Subject: Re: LOTR
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 21:01:12 +1300
From: Tim Nicholas <tim@nicholas.net.nz>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: LOTR
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On Tue, Dec 11, 2001 at 06:48:05PM +1300, Julie Wootten wrote:
> Hrm.  I am officially miffed now.  I was of the understanding that the
> Premieres
> of LOTR were on the 19th - and it finished just around midnight (in NZ at
> least),
> and then the first screening - looks like the one Tim is going to - starts
> just a
> minute later on the 20th.  And due to the time zone difference, NZ public
> would be
> the first to see it.  Guess that got overruled.

So far as i know, you are right. I think what Ray went to was a
pre-premier screening, rather than the premier it's self... My guess
is that it's primarily for reviewers and the like. If I'm right
about that, then the ticket that I have is for the first general
public showing. 

Ray, can you confirm this? You know more about the movie bussiness
than most of us.

Tim

> 
> At least it will be interesting to see those who didn't think Peter Jackson
> & NZ
> were up to LOTR eat their words.
> 
> Julie.
>


-- 
Tim Nicholas                          ||                      Cilix
Email: tim@nicholas.net.nz            ||              ICQ# 15869961
http://tim.nicholas.net.nz/           ||       Dunedin, New Zealand
"Grow up, Larry. You give me too much credit." - Linus Torvalds



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From: Tim Nicholas <tim@nicholas.net.nz>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 21:09:12 +1300
From: Tim Nicholas <tim@nicholas.net.nz>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: LOTR
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On Tue, Dec 11, 2001 at 01:10:32PM +1100, Allan Mills wrote:
>  Unless you drink some coffee or Jolt Cola or Red Bull or something to keep
> you awake I don't see why. At midnight your body will be tired and your mind
> won't be able to take in the movie very well.
> 
>  I remember one schools excursion where we went to see Hunt for the Red
> October. We hadn't had much sleep and I couldn't focus on the movie at all.
> Only years later when I saw it on video that I realised it had been the same
> movie and that it was actually pretty good.
> 
>  Allan
> 

As Simon said, computer geeks/nerds have a tendancy to keep unusual
hours anyway. Since I fall into that catagory, I decided it was
worth doing. The time of day during which I wouldn't be able to
concerntrate properly would be early morning, by which I mean
before 11. Any time after that, I can do resonably well.

I suspect that the antisipation would keep me awake anyway<g>

Yours,

Tim

--
Tim Nicholas                          ||                      Cilix
Email: tim@nicholas.net.nz            ||       Dunedin, New Zealand
http://tim.nicholas.net.nz/           ||  Cell/SMS: +64 21 113 0399
"Grow up, Larry. You give me too much credit." - Linus Torvalds



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Subject: Re: LOTR
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Solaar" <Jody@tesco.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
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Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 08:30:41 -0000
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>I'm a big Peter Jackson fan, but if you ever saw his first few films only
>(Bad Taste, Meet the feebles, Brain Dead) before you saw any trailers for
>LOTR you probably would have been one of those people doubting him also.
>------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Braindead is one of the silliest, funniest films I've ever seen ;o)

Solaar

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From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: OT: Narnia movies
In-Reply-To: <004401c18208$e9a5f000$a11e3acb@heechee>
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Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 18:43:33 +1000 (GMT+1000)
From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: OT: Narnia movies
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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> > Was reading on Cinescape today that a producer has also picked up the
> > rights to all seven Chronicles of Narnia books and he has Warner
> > Bros/New Line in mind to have them make the movies.
> > And is eyeing 2004 for the first book, The Lion, The Witch, and the
> > Wardrobe.
> >
> > I honestly believed it was only a matter of time, with the current trend
> > toward fantasy, before somebody thought about giving Lewis's classics a
> > go :)
>
> Do you (or anyone else out there) know if they going to give The Magician's
> Nephew a go? Or are they going to go straight into The Lion, The Witch, and
> The Wardrobe?
>
> I really hope they do Magician's Nephew... Some of the scenes would be very
> interesting to see filmed.
>
> Cheers,
> James

The BBC did a tv series of it years ago, and it was awesome!


IIRC they did Lion,Witch and the Wardrobe, Prince Caspian, Voyage of the
Dawn Treader and teh Silver Chair..

Thanks
Darragh
-=-=
www.iamtheporkfireman.com
[Email]: s356179@student.uq.edu.au [ICQ]: 114283262



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Subject: Re: OT: Narnia movies
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From: "James Barker" <heechee@softhome.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT: Narnia movies
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 19:53:58 +1100
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Darragh Murray" <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2001 7:43 PM
Subject: Re: OT: Narnia movies


> The BBC did a tv series of it years ago, and it was awesome!
>
>
> IIRC they did Lion,Witch and the Wardrobe, Prince Caspian, Voyage of the
> Dawn Treader and teh Silver Chair..

Yep, I remember it... It was good, too. The interpretation of Voyage of the
Dawn Treader was particularly good. :)

However, they didn't do Magician's Nephew, which is why I was curious if
this unnamed producer is considering it.

Cheers,
James
------------------------------------------------------------
So long, we wish you well.
You told us how you weren't afraid to die.
Well, so long. Don't cry, or feel too down.
Not all martyrs see divinity,
But at least you tried.
    - Tool, Eulogy



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Subject: Re: OT: Narnia movies
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Andy Hogan" <andyhogan@dcsi.net.au>
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I curious to know, who likes the Narnia series because of the fantasy
elements? who came across them because of the christian influences in them?

I've always found it rather interesting the way that religion often seems to
be a BIG part of fantasy books. (well the ones I've read anyways)

`Andy

----- Original Message -----
From: "James Barker" <heechee@softhome.net>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2001 7:53 PM
Subject: Re: OT: Narnia movies


>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Darragh Murray" <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
> To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2001 7:43 PM
> Subject: Re: OT: Narnia movies
>
>
> > The BBC did a tv series of it years ago, and it was awesome!
> >
> >
> > IIRC they did Lion,Witch and the Wardrobe, Prince Caspian, Voyage of the
> > Dawn Treader and teh Silver Chair..
>
> Yep, I remember it... It was good, too. The interpretation of Voyage of the
> Dawn Treader was particularly good. :)
>
> However, they didn't do Magician's Nephew, which is why I was curious if
> this unnamed producer is considering it.
>
> Cheers,
> James
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> So long, we wish you well.
> You told us how you weren't afraid to die.
> Well, so long. Don't cry, or feel too down.
> Not all martyrs see divinity,
> But at least you tried.
>     - Tool, Eulogy
>
>



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From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT: Narnia movies
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Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 21:33:06 +1000 (GMT+1000)
From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT: Narnia movies
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> I curious to know, who likes the Narnia series because of the fantasy
> elements? who came across them because of the christian influences in them?

I liked them because they were fun and interesting. They introduced me to
the fantasy genre, and I probably prefer them to tolkien.

When you say 'came across' them, what do you mean? Like, came across them
via a  christian book list or something.

If you're meaning, 'did I spot the christian influence', when I first read
them, "no", now, yes:)

Aslan in particular is clearly a metaphor for Jesus. (dieing on the stone
table to save Edmond).

There is actually a great journal series which analyses the themes used by
both Tolkien and Lewis, the name escapes me now, but I've read it, and its
is really interesting. The give a good insight into the common themes of
the fantasy genre.


> I've always found it rather interesting the way that religion often seems to
> be a BIG part of fantasy books. (well the ones I've read anyways)
> `Andy

Religion is common to nearly all fantasy (that I've read anyway). The
whole 'good vs evil' theme is common to many religions, and therefore has
a place in many fantasy stories.

Thanks
Darragh
-=-=
www.iamtheporkfireman.com
[Email]: s356179@student.uq.edu.au [ICQ]: 114283262



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From: Larry Siegel <larry@psihawk.com>
Subject: Re: LOTR
In-Reply-To: <20011211210112.A1240@nicholas.net.nz>
References: <00a401c18207$67e7a1e0$062e56d2@oemcomputer>
 <200112102222.JAA07121@war.Aus.Sun.COM>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 09:10:19 -0500
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Larry Siegel <larry@psihawk.com>
Subject: Re: LOTR
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

AFAIK.....

The theatres by me are selling tickets... for the 12/19/01 12:01 am 
showing.(EST)
Which is just after Midnight Tues Night.. Wed Morning... The day the film 
comes out.

That is the first showing in the US. as EST is the first TZ in the US.




Larry

My Homepage
http://www.psihawk.com

Raymond E. Feist FAQ
http://www.psihawk.com/feist



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From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: LOTR
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 09:17:03 -0500
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 11 Dec 2001 14:17:04.0329 (UTC) FILETIME=[8201A390:01C1824E]
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Hey Solaar, turn off the HTML please!

Adieu

Jimmy

Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary 
Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
   -- Benjamin Franklin




>From: "Solaar" <Jody@tesco.net>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
>Subject: Re: LOTR
>Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 08:30:41 -0000
>
>I'm a big Peter Jackson fan, but if you ever saw his first few films only
>(Bad Taste, Meet the feebles, Brain Dead) before you saw any trailers for
>LOTR you probably would have been one of those people doubting him also.
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Braindead is one of the silliest, funniest films I've ever seen ;o)
>
>Solaar


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp



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X-PH: V4.1@cornell.edu (Cornell Modified) 
From: "Solaar" <Jody@tesco.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
References: <Pine.OSF.4.30.0112111842430.9468-100000@student.uq.edu.au>
Subject: Re: OT: Narnia movies
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 14:04:32 -0000
MIME-Version: 1.0
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Solaar" <Jody@tesco.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT: Narnia movies
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 14:04:32 -0000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

>The BBC did a tv series of it years ago, and it was awesome!
>
>Thanks
>Darragh
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I remember that - it was an awesome kids programme that my whole
family always watched together!

Solaar

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From: "Solaar" <Jody@tesco.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
References: <F21CJLgRkQ9ZPWv1QJ200001d8e@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: LOTR
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 14:34:31 -0000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Solaar" <Jody@tesco.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: LOTR
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 14:34:31 -0000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

> Hey Solaar, turn off the HTML please!
> 
> Adieu
> 
> Jimmy

___________________________
Sorry!! How's this??

Solaar



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From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: LOTR
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 11:24:29 -0500
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From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: LOTR
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 11:24:29 -0500
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 11 Dec 2001 16:24:29.0974 (UTC) FILETIME=[4F2A7B60:01C18260]
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Much better. It doesn't really bother me in truth, but there are a bunch of 
guys on the list who are using non windows based systems that only see 
gibberish when they view an HTML enabled email. I just wanted to spare you 
and the board yet another vicious assault by the HTML commandos.

Adieu

Jimmy

Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary 
Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
   -- Benjamin Franklin




>From: "Solaar" <Jody@tesco.net>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
>Subject: Re: LOTR
>Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 14:34:31 -0000
>
> > Hey Solaar, turn off the HTML please!
> >
> > Adieu
> >
> > Jimmy
>
>___________________________
>Sorry!! How's this??
>
>Solaar
>


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp



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From: "matz md" <ejw163@psu.edu>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: OT: Narnia movies
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 11:33:45 -0500
Message-ID: <NDBBIHDGGLEPJBAKNKLEEEHLCAAA.ejw163@psu.edu>
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From: "matz md" <ejw163@psu.edu>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: OT: Narnia movies
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 11:33:45 -0500
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

>
>I curious to know, who likes the Narnia series because of the fantasy
>elements? who came across them because of the christian influences in them?
>
>I've always found it rather interesting the way that religion often seems to
>be a BIG part of fantasy books. (well the ones I've read anyways)
>
>`Andy


As a non-christian (by birth) I never picked up on those kinds of
influences. Actually until I saw this e-mail I never would have put it
together. I just always saw the good vs. evil thing to be a standard of what
makes a good story.

Just a thought,

matz



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From: "Donal K. Fellows" <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
In-reply-to: <F9WrGW6Ex3AkwtsQztQ00017763@hotmail.com> (kiehtan@hotmail.com)
Subject: Re: LOTR
References:  <F9WrGW6Ex3AkwtsQztQ00017763@hotmail.com>
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Donal K. Fellows" <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: LOTR
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 16:41:17 +0000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

"James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
> I just wanted to spare you and the board yet another vicious assault
> by the HTML commandos.

Too late!  <evil_laugh>Bwahahahahaaa!</evil_laugh>

Donal.
-- 
Donal K. Fellows, Department of Computer Science, University of Manchester, UK.
(work) fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk     Tel: +44-161-275-6137  (preferred email addr.)
(home) donal@ugglan.demon.co.uk  Tel: +44-1274-401017   Mobile: +44-7957-298955
http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~fellowsd/  (Don't quote my .sig; I've seen it before!)



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*** EOOH ***
From: "Solaar" <Jody@tesco.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: LOTR
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 17:36:03 -0000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

> Much better. It doesn't really bother me in truth, but there are a bunch of
> guys on the list who are using non windows based systems that only see
> gibberish when they view an HTML enabled email. I just wanted to spare you
> and the board yet another vicious assault by the HTML commandos.
>
> Adieu
>
> Jimmy
========================

Cheers Jimmy (Duke?) - I never did know why people moaned about it!!

Solaar



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From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re: LOTR
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*** EOOH ***
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Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 13:14:55 -0500
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Actually it is my true birth name. If I were to pick one from Ray's work, it 
would be Arutha, still....Duke James does have a nice ring to it.

Adieu

Duke James, err, Jimmy


Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary 
Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
   -- Benjamin Franklin




>From: "Solaar" <Jody@tesco.net>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
>Subject: Re: LOTR
>Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 17:36:03 -0000
>
> > Much better. It doesn't really bother me in truth, but there are a bunch
>of
> > guys on the list who are using non windows based systems that only see
> > gibberish when they view an HTML enabled email. I just wanted to spare 
>you
> > and the board yet another vicious assault by the HTML commandos.
> >
> > Adieu
> >
> > Jimmy
>========================
>
>Cheers Jimmy (Duke?) - I never did know why people moaned about it!!
>
>Solaar
>


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp



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From: Allan Mills <milla@css.com.au>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" (FEISTFANS-L) <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: OT: Narnia movies
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 08:33:31 +1100
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*** EOOH ***
From: Allan Mills <milla@css.com.au>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" (FEISTFANS-L) <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: OT: Narnia movies
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 08:33:31 +1100
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

 Fantasy elements for myself. One of my favorite parts from the Magician's
Nephew was when they brought that witch back from the other world. When she
got insulted she got angry and tried to use the "deplorable word" that
genocided everyone else from her homeworld except herself. Except the word
only worked in her world and did nothing in ours. Later in the book it
mentioned that someday humans would discover something just as bad. Does
anyone know if this was written before or after nuclear weapons which is
what I assumed it was talking about.

 Allan



> -----Original Message-----
> From: Andy Hogan [mailto:andyhogan@dcsi.net.au]
> Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2001 10:18 PM
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Subject: Re: OT: Narnia movies
> 
> 
> I curious to know, who likes the Narnia series because of the fantasy
> elements? who came across them because of the christian 
> influences in them?
> 
> I've always found it rather interesting the way that religion 
> often seems to
> be a BIG part of fantasy books. (well the ones I've read anyways)
> 
> `Andy
> 



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Subject: Re: LOTR
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Julie Wootten" <wootten@xtra.co.nz>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: LOTR
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 11:28:19 +1300
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I think Bad Taste is a pretty awesome movie for one that was shot with
a home camera in his backyard over 3 years, using his mates for actors, 
and a shoestring budget.  Give him some decent money and resources...
and you get LOTR.

Unfortunately, my desire to see the film quickly is warring with my
distaste for crowds and crowded movie theatres.  So no doubt you'll
all see it long before I do.  Even the Australians ;-)

The best thing about Braindead was the cameos by politicians and
well-known actors - and how they were all slaughtered messily :-D

Julie.


> I'm a big Peter Jackson fan, but if you ever saw his first few films only
> (Bad Taste, Meet the feebles, Brain Dead) before you saw any trailers for
> LOTR you probably would have been one of those people doubting him also.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Brad




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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 10:13:26 +1100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Scott Nimmo <snimmo@connect.com.au>
Subject: Re: LOTR
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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At 09:28 AM 12/12/2001 , Julie wrote:
>The best thing about Braindead was the cameos by politicians and
>well-known actors - and how they were all slaughtered messily :-D

Even some actors were familiar to myself, but the one liners made the film
  for me.
Quotes from Braindead are more popular than Monty Python quotes
around my roleplaying table.

Where else can you watch Kung-fu Priests battling zombies?
"I kick arse for the Lord!"

Wasn't it called Dead and Alive in the US?

regards,

Scott



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Subject: Re: OT: Narnia movies
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*** EOOH ***
From: "wkshuler" <wkshuler@alltel.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT: Narnia movies
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 19:17:35 -0500
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Having long been a fan of C.S. Lewis' work, I have to say I started reading
it strictly for the fantasy, but being a christian as well, i was intrigued
by the references and imagery he put to his stories.

all the best,
Marach

----- Original Message -----
From: "Andy Hogan" <andyhogan@dcsi.net.au>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2001 6:18 AM
Subject: Re: OT: Narnia movies


> I curious to know, who likes the Narnia series because of the fantasy
> elements? who came across them because of the christian influences in them?
>
> I've always found it rather interesting the way that religion often seems to
> be a BIG part of fantasy books. (well the ones I've read anyways)
>
> `Andy
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "James Barker" <heechee@softhome.net>
> To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2001 7:53 PM
> Subject: Re: OT: Narnia movies
>
>
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Darragh Murray" <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
> > To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> > Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2001 7:43 PM
> > Subject: Re: OT: Narnia movies
> >
> >
> > > The BBC did a tv series of it years ago, and it was awesome!
> > >
> > >
> > > IIRC they did Lion,Witch and the Wardrobe, Prince Caspian, Voyage of the
> > > Dawn Treader and teh Silver Chair..
> >
> > Yep, I remember it... It was good, too. The interpretation of Voyage of
> the
> > Dawn Treader was particularly good. :)
> >
> > However, they didn't do Magician's Nephew, which is why I was curious if
> > this unnamed producer is considering it.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > James
> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > So long, we wish you well.
> > You told us how you weren't afraid to die.
> > Well, so long. Don't cry, or feel too down.
> > Not all martyrs see divinity,
> > But at least you tried.
> >     - Tool, Eulogy
> >
> >
>
>



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Subject: Re: LOTR
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 00:25:32 -0000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Solaar" <Jody@tesco.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: LOTR
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 00:25:32 -0000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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> The best thing about Braindead was the cameos by politicians and
> well-known actors - and how they were all slaughtered messily :-D
>
> Julie.
=====================
On the subject of movies - has anyone seen "From Hell". I've just got back
from seeing it at the cinema (my girlfriend fell asleep, my mate was happy
with all the cleavages). I quite enjoyed the film - but I'll probably wait
for the DvD before trying to scrutinise it thoroughly.

Of the cuff though - very enjoyable.

Solaar



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 17:32:06 -0700
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT: Narnia movies
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

James Barker wrote:
> 
> However, they didn't do Magician's Nephew, which is why I was curious if
> this unnamed producer is considering it.

The article I read stated that they were starting with The Lion, The
Witch and the Wardrobe (iirc, that's the first one actually published,
but second timeline-wise). And it seems as though, like Harry Potter,
they want to make all of them into movies.

Craig J. Ries



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 17:33:07 -0700
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT: Narnia movies
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Andy Hogan wrote:
> 
> I curious to know, who likes the Narnia series because of the fantasy
> elements? who came across them because of the christian influences in them?

Like somebody else mentioned, Chronicles of Narnia were also my first
foray into fantasy as a child. My uncle would read them to me and then
give the books to me to either finish reading or to reread.

Craig J. Ries



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To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" (FEISTFANS-L) <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: OT: Narnia movies
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 11:36:54 +1100
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*** EOOH ***
From: Allan Mills <milla@css.com.au>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" (FEISTFANS-L) <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: OT: Narnia movies
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 11:36:54 +1100
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

 Methinks a mailing campaign to the movie makers reminding them of the
greatness of Magician is in order.

 Allan

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Craig J. Ries [mailto:cries@yifan.net]
> Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2001 11:32 AM
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Subject: Re: OT: Narnia movies
> 
> 
> James Barker wrote:
> > 
> > However, they didn't do Magician's Nephew, which is why I 
> was curious if
> > this unnamed producer is considering it.
> 
> The article I read stated that they were starting with The Lion, The
> Witch and the Wardrobe (iirc, that's the first one actually published,
> but second timeline-wise). And it seems as though, like Harry Potter,
> they want to make all of them into movies.
> 
> Craig J. Ries
> 



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Subject: Re: LOTR
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 19:04:48 -0800
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Jay" <res0ibjw@verizon.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: LOTR
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 19:04:48 -0800
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I just thought you guys would enjoy a  negative review of Lord of the Rings.
Personally, I can't wait to see the movie, but I thought this review was....
enlightening, to say the least.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/entertainment/entertainmentstorydisplay.cfm?storyI
D=233003&thesection=entertainment&thesubsection=film&thesecondsubsection=rev
iews


----- Original Message -----
From: "Solaar" <Jody@tesco.net>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2001 4:25 PM
Subject: Re: LOTR


> > The best thing about Braindead was the cameos by politicians and
> > well-known actors - and how they were all slaughtered messily :-D
> >
> > Julie.
> =====================
> On the subject of movies - has anyone seen "From Hell". I've just got back
> from seeing it at the cinema (my girlfriend fell asleep, my mate was happy
> with all the cleavages). I quite enjoyed the film - but I'll probably wait
> for the DvD before trying to scrutinise it thoroughly.
>
> Of the cuff though - very enjoyable.
>
> Solaar
>
>



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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: LOTR 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 11 Dec 2001 19:04:48 -0800."
             <001d01c182b9$c30e27d0$0200a8c0@jay> 
Cc: Alan.Hargreaves@Sun.COM
From: Alan.Hargreaves@Sun.COM
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*** EOOH ***
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: LOTR 
Cc: Alan.Hargreaves@Sun.COM
From: Alan.Hargreaves@Sun.COM
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 14:18:35 +1100
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I'd say it was more neutral than negative.


alan.
--
Alan Hargreaves                 Senior Technical Support Specialist
Phone      : +61 2 9844 5379    Technical Support Group
Mobile     : +61 416 207 573    APAC Customer Care Centre
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Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 21:14:56 -0700
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: LOTR
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Alan.Hargreaves@Sun.COM wrote:
> 
> I'd say it was more neutral than negative.

I agree. And honestly, I'm tired of the typical complaints that we get
when a book is turned into a movie, the most common of which is the that
the reader's imagination is ruined (or something along those lines). I
hardly see it as such, as this is only one man's (well, one group's)
vision of Middle-Earth.

As for the "purists", I love Tolkien's work, but like the X-Men movie
(and hopefully other upcoming comic book-based movies), I will nit-pick,
but I will enjoy it so much more as well.

Craig J. Ries



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 07:44:13 +0200
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Kenneth Jones <killkenny@thos.co.za>
Subject: Re: LOTR
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Well it is definitely coming out on the 19th in South Africa.

At 07:55 PM 12/10/01 -0700, you wrote:
>David Smith - NT Interoperability Engineer wrote:
> >
> > Interesting... I thought they had set the release date to be the same world
> > wide. Hmmm, it seems set for the 19th around most of the world... except
> > Australia. Typical :(
>
>An article I read stated that Fellowship will open in over 10,000
>cinemas world-wide on the 19th.
>
>If Australia isn't getting it until the 26th, you guys could be the only
>ones left out a week :P
>
>Craig J. Ries



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From: Johan Godfried <johan@godfried.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: LOTR and Narnia: Let's take them out of the FEISTFAN ML
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Hi all,

Although I am an enormous Tolkien fan and looking forward to the movie, this is
the FEISTFAN mailing list. I don't think other Feist fans are waiting for
discussions on airing times of LOTR. Or what Narnia book is going to be shot
next.

I do understand that there is a link between LOTR, Narnia and the books of
Raymond Feist (and Harry Potter for that matter) but I would like to ask you to
stick to the purpose of this ML which is a place to ask questions, post
oppinions and generally discuss the works of Raymond Feist.

Please don't take this the wrong way, I am not looking for a flame war ;) but
when I start my email and I see 35 messages with the subject RE: LOTR, I start
to wonder if I somehow got enlisted for the Tolkien ML.

Greetinx

Johan Godfried.


Powered by ASHosting



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Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 15:43:36 +0800
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Shawn Chung <shawnc@starhub.net.sg>
Subject: Re: LOTR and Narnia: Let's take them out of the FEISTFAN ML
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

>Hi all,
>
>Although I am an enormous Tolkien fan and looking forward to the 
>movie, this is
>the FEISTFAN mailing list. I don't think other Feist fans are waiting for
>discussions on airing times of LOTR. Or what Narnia book is going to be shot
>next.
>
>I do understand that there is a link between LOTR, Narnia and the books of
>Raymond Feist (and Harry Potter for that matter) but I would like to 
>ask you to
>stick to the purpose of this ML which is a place to ask questions, post
>oppinions and generally discuss the works of Raymond Feist.
>
>Please don't take this the wrong way, I am not looking for a flame war ;) but
>when I start my email and I see 35 messages with the subject RE: LOTR, I start
>to wonder if I somehow got enlisted for the Tolkien ML.
>
>Greetinx
>
>Johan Godfried.
>
>Powered by ASHosting

Hey John,

We usually regard this list as Ray's, which means that any topic he 
finds of interest, whether it's his favourite NFL team, or wine, is 
regarded as on topic.

So, since Ray was the one who started the LOTR thread, I guess its on topic :)
-- 
----

SeeYa StarSide

Shawn Chung


"Baldrick, you wouldn't recognize a subtle plan if it painted itself 
purple and danced naked on a harpsicord singing 'subtle plans are 
here again'."		- E. Blackadder , 'Blackadder's Christmas 
Carol'



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From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
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Subject: RE: OT: Narnia movies
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Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 18:23:23 +1000 (GMT+1000)
From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" (FEISTFANS-L) <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: OT: Narnia movies
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My opinion is that the film format could not do the book justice.

>  Methinks a mailing campaign to the movie makers reminding them of the
> greatness of Magician is in order.
>
>  Allan
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Craig J. Ries [mailto:cries@yifan.net]
> > Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2001 11:32 AM
> > To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > Subject: Re: OT: Narnia movies
> >
> >
> > James Barker wrote:
> > >
> > > However, they didn't do Magician's Nephew, which is why I
> > was curious if
> > > this unnamed producer is considering it.
> >
> > The article I read stated that they were starting with The Lion, The
> > Witch and the Wardrobe (iirc, that's the first one actually published,
> > but second timeline-wise). And it seems as though, like Harry Potter,
> > they want to make all of them into movies.
> >
> > Craig J. Ries
> >
>
>

Thanks
Darragh
-=-=
www.iamtheporkfireman.com
[Email]: s356179@student.uq.edu.au [ICQ]: 114283262



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Subject: Re: LOTR and Narnia: Let's take them out of the FEISTFAN ML
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From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: LOTR and Narnia: Let's take them out of the FEISTFAN ML
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Then check off the delete section next to all the messages with a topic you 
don't want to read. Simple solution.

Adieu

Jimmy

>From: Johan Godfried <johan@godfried.com>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
>Subject: LOTR and Narnia: Let's take them out of the FEISTFAN ML
>Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 08:16:32 +0100
>
>Hi all,
>
>Although I am an enormous Tolkien fan and looking forward to the movie, 
>this is
>the FEISTFAN mailing list. I don't think other Feist fans are waiting for
>discussions on airing times of LOTR. Or what Narnia book is going to be 
>shot
>next.
>
>I do understand that there is a link between LOTR, Narnia and the books of
>Raymond Feist (and Harry Potter for that matter) but I would like to ask 
>you to
>stick to the purpose of this ML which is a place to ask questions, post
>oppinions and generally discuss the works of Raymond Feist.
>
>Please don't take this the wrong way, I am not looking for a flame war ;) 
>but
>when I start my email and I see 35 messages with the subject RE: LOTR, I 
>start
>to wonder if I somehow got enlisted for the Tolkien ML.
>
>Greetinx
>
>Johan Godfried.
>
>
>Powered by ASHosting
>


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References: <E3A4AA1DA7B41849A632450233B5423A17805E@css01.css.com.au>
Subject: Re: OT: Narnia movies
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 10:31:13 -0800
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Kevin" <kevykev@sbcglobal.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT: Narnia movies
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 10:31:13 -0800
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I second that, or am I somewhere closer to being fifty millionth person to
say it?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Allan Mills" <milla@css.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2001 4:36 PM
Subject: RE: OT: Narnia movies


> Methinks a mailing campaign to the movie makers reminding them of the
> greatness of Magician is in order.
>
>  Allan
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Craig J. Ries [mailto:cries@yifan.net]
> > Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2001 11:32 AM
> > To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > Subject: Re: OT: Narnia movies
> >
> >
> > James Barker wrote:
> > >
> > > However, they didn't do Magician's Nephew, which is why I
> > was curious if
> > > this unnamed producer is considering it.
> >
> > The article I read stated that they were starting with The Lion, The
> > Witch and the Wardrobe (iirc, that's the first one actually published,
> > but second timeline-wise). And it seems as though, like Harry Potter,
> > they want to make all of them into movies.
> >
> > Craig J. Ries
> >
>



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From: Allan Mills <milla@css.com.au>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" (FEISTFANS-L) <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: OT: Narnia movies
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 10:58:22 +1100
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*** EOOH ***
From: Allan Mills <milla@css.com.au>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" (FEISTFANS-L) <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: OT: Narnia movies
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 10:58:22 +1100
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

 It's more relevant now. Hollywood tends to jump on the bandwagon of
anything that's successful (okay, not just them but most of the entire
entertainment industry) and right now Harry Potter is drawing in money like
mad and LOTR is set to do the same. As a result moviemakers will be more
likely to make fantasy movies from books giving Magician higher odds of
being converted.

 Allan

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kevin [mailto:kevykev@sbcglobal.net]
> Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 5:31 AM
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Subject: Re: OT: Narnia movies
> 
> 
> I second that, or am I somewhere closer to being fifty 
> millionth person to
> say it?
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Allan Mills" <milla@css.com.au>
> To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2001 4:36 PM
> Subject: RE: OT: Narnia movies
> 
> 
> > Methinks a mailing campaign to the movie makers reminding 
> them of the
> > greatness of Magician is in order.
> >
> >  Allan
> >



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 16:55:02 -0800
Subject: Re: OT: Narnia movies
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On Wednesday, December 12, 2001, at 03:58 PM, Allan Mills wrote:

>  It's more relevant now. Hollywood tends to jump on the bandwagon of
> anything that's successful (okay, not just them but most of the entire
> entertainment industry) and right now Harry Potter is drawing in money 
> like
> mad and LOTR is set to do the same. As a result moviemakers will be more
> likely to make fantasy movies from books giving Magician higher odds of
> being converted.

 From your mouth to God's ear; I NEED the money!

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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From: Allan Mills <milla@css.com.au>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" (FEISTFANS-L) <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: critics
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 14:53:18 +1100
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*** EOOH ***
From: Allan Mills <milla@css.com.au>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" (FEISTFANS-L) <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: critics
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 14:53:18 +1100
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 Remembering Ray's comments about a book critic who didn't even bother to
read Magician I thought this might be of interest :
http://media.guardian.co.uk/presspublishing/story/0,7495,617363,00.html.

 Allan



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 21:08:55 -0700
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
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Raymond Feist wrote:
> 
>  From your mouth to God's ear; I NEED the money!

Hrm. You starving that much, Ray?

Craig J. Ries



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 21:12:04 -0700
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: critics
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Allan Mills wrote:
> 
>  Remembering Ray's comments about a book critic who didn't even bother to
> read Magician I thought this might be of interest :
> http://media.guardian.co.uk/presspublishing/story/0,7495,617363,00.html.

Consider this, as well: recently one company was discovered to have
*created* a critic to advertise some of their films, and the false
comments from the false critic showed up in commercials and even on some
movie posters.

Craig J. Ries



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From: Allan Mills <milla@css.com.au>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" (FEISTFANS-L) <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: critics
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 15:27:32 +1100
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*** EOOH ***
From: Allan Mills <milla@css.com.au>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" (FEISTFANS-L) <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: critics
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 15:27:32 +1100
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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 I remember that, it's considered fair enough to butter up a real critic and
even give them pointers on what to write but it was totally scandalous to
lie outright.

 Allan

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Craig J. Ries [mailto:cries@yifan.net]
> Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 3:12 PM
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Subject: Re: critics
> 
> 
> Allan Mills wrote:
> > 
> >  Remembering Ray's comments about a book critic who didn't 
> even bother to
> > read Magician I thought this might be of interest :
> > 
> http://media.guardian.co.uk/presspublishing/story/0,7495,61736
> 3,00.html.
> 
> Consider this, as well: recently one company was discovered to have
> *created* a critic to advertise some of their films, and the false
> comments from the false critic showed up in commercials and 
> even on some
> movie posters.
> 
> Craig J. Ries
> 



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Subject: newsgroup viewer?
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 21:12:41 -0800
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Jason Martin" <res0b95g@verizon.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: newsgroup viewer?
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 21:12:41 -0800
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

 Does anyone know where to go to get a good freeware program to view
newsgroups?  For some reason Outlook and I just do not get along at all.
Half the time it never opens the newsgroups because it times out.   I know
it shouldn't be a problem with DSL.  Anyhow anything will work for me.  I
just want to read msgs and don't care if I download any files or anything.

Thanks,

Jason

"Too much knowlege never makes for simple decisions."
                           Ghanima- Children of Dune



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From: "Chad Keffer" <feistfan@chadkeffer.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
References: <0A68022D-EF64-11D5-A90E-003065A8A644@bittersea.com> <3C1829D7.1BE1E3B7@yifan.net>
Subject: Re: OT: Narnia movies
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 23:42:55 -0600
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Chad Keffer" <feistfan@chadkeffer.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT: Narnia movies
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 23:42:55 -0600
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Yes, let's define the word "NEED" .... 

----- Original Message ----- 
>From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
>To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
>Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2001 10:08 PM
>Subject: Re: OT: Narnia movies
>
>
>Raymond Feist wrote:
>> 
>>  From your mouth to God's ear; I NEED the money!
>
>Hrm. You starving that much, Ray?
>
>Craig J. Ries
>


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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Barker" <heechee@softhome.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: OT Re: newsgroup viewer?
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 18:08:26 +1100
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Jason Martin" <res0b95g@verizon.net>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 4:12 PM
Subject: newsgroup viewer?


> Does anyone know where to go to get a good freeware program to view
> newsgroups?  For some reason Outlook and I just do not get along at all.
> Half the time it never opens the newsgroups because it times out.   I know
> it shouldn't be a problem with DSL.  Anyhow anything will work for me.  I
> just want to read msgs and don't care if I download any files or anything.

Although it's getting older now, I'm a fan of FreeAgent, a free piece of
software available at http://www.forteinc.com/agent/freagent.htm

Cheers,
James



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Subject: Re: OT: Narnia movies
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 13:56:44 +0100
Subject: Re: OT: Narnia movies
From: "Sylvain Guehl" <fenyxkell@demo.xandmail.com>
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Yeah, otherwise Ray couldn't even pay the ticket to go and watch a
movie set in his own world.

Theatre guy : -"$8 for the ticket please sir"
Ray, looking inside his old jean's pockets : -"Well...mmm I just have
	42 cents."
the guy : -"sorry sir, no pay, no watch."
Ray : -"but you know the books sells have been low those last months..."
guy : -"don't wanna know, get out of the queue please, people are
	waiting to see this movie"
Ray : -"but you know I did it, I mean not the movie, but it's a movie
	about my work... and and..."
people : -"out old man ! We want to see Magician, make place !"

later, in the theatre people wonder : "Who's this "Ray Feist" they
talk about in the credits ???"

;)

Syl

> Yes, let's define the word "NEED" .... 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Craig J. Ries" 
> To: "FEISTFANS-L" 
> Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2001 10:08 PM
> Subject: Re: OT: Narnia movies
> 
> 
> Raymond Feist wrote:
> > 
> > From your mouth to God's ear; I NEED the money!
> 
> Hrm. You starving that much, Ray?
> 
> Craig J. Ries
> 
> 


Fenyx Kell.

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From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re: OT: Narnia movies
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*** EOOH ***
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From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re: OT: Narnia movies
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Hey Ray, try selling cars for a living. Since September 11th, starving is 
something I no longer experience only as news story CBS.

>From: "Chad Keffer" <feistfan@chadkeffer.com>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
>Subject: Re: OT: Narnia movies
>Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 23:42:55 -0600
>
>Yes, let's define the word "NEED" ....
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
>To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
>Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2001 10:08 PM
>Subject: Re: OT: Narnia movies
>
>
>Raymond Feist wrote:
> >
> >  From your mouth to God's ear; I NEED the money!
>
>Hrm. You starving that much, Ray?
>
>Craig J. Ries
>


_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com



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From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT: Narnia movies
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 09:13:32 -0500
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From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT: Narnia movies
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 09:13:32 -0500
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Sorry, that should be "as A news story ON CBS."

Adieu

Jimmy


>From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
>Subject: Re: OT: Narnia movies
>Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 08:49:49 -0500
>
>
>Hey Ray, try selling cars for a living. Since September 11th, starving is
>something I no longer experience only as news story CBS.
>
>>From: "Chad Keffer" <feistfan@chadkeffer.com>
>>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>>To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
>>Subject: Re: OT: Narnia movies
>>Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 23:42:55 -0600
>>
>>Yes, let's define the word "NEED" ....
>>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
>>To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
>>Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2001 10:08 PM
>>Subject: Re: OT: Narnia movies
>>
>>
>>Raymond Feist wrote:
>> >
>> >  From your mouth to God's ear; I NEED the money!
>>
>>Hrm. You starving that much, Ray?
>>
>>Craig J. Ries
>>
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
>


_________________________________________________________________
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1,,
Summary-line: 13-Dec      raymond@bittersea.com  [68] #Re: OT: Narnia movies
X-Coding-System: undecided-unix
Mail-from: From owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu Thu Dec 13 17:25:48 2001
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Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 09:22:22 -0800
Subject: Re: OT: Narnia movies
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 09:22:22 -0800
Subject: Re: OT: Narnia movies
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On Wednesday, December 12, 2001, at 08:08 PM, Craig J. Ries wrote:

> Raymond Feist wrote:
>>
>>  From your mouth to God's ear; I NEED the money!
>
> Hrm. You starving that much, Ray?
>
> Craig J. Ries
>
>
>
>

You come over for a couple of months and pay my ex-wife's alimony, then 
see how much you've got left over . . .

<pained grin>

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



1,,
Summary-line: 13-Dec      raymond@bittersea.com  [69] #Re: OT: Narnia movies
X-Coding-System: undecided-unix
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Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 09:29:35 -0800
Subject: Re: OT: Narnia movies
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 09:29:35 -0800
Subject: Re: OT: Narnia movies
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Thursday, December 13, 2001, at 05:49 AM, James Silva wrote:

>
> Hey Ray, try selling cars for a living. Since September 11th, starving 
> is something I no longer experience only as news story CBS.
>
Hey, James.

1969 -- Dick Steal Rambler, Reseda, CA.
1969-1970 -- Town & Country Ford, Reseda, CA
1970 -- Westwood Volkswagen, Westwood, CA
1971 -- Dependable Dodge, Canoga Park, CA
1971 -- Tipton Olds--Jeep--Honda, La Mesa, CA
1972 -- John Factor Volkswagen, Lemon Grove, CA

Four of my seven years in sales were selling cars.

One good thing about selling cars; hit a hot weekend, and you can be in 
serious money quickly.  Good luck.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



1,,
Summary-line: 13-Dec        kiehtan@hotmail.com  [94] #Re: OT: Narnia movies
X-Coding-System: undecided-unix
Mail-from: From owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu Thu Dec 13 17:47:04 2001
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From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT: Narnia movies
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 12:43:52 -0500
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From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT: Narnia movies
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 12:43:52 -0500
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Thanks, I'll try to remain optimistic, but right now, even the two 
consistent salesmen of the month (Gary and Kurt) are lucky to hit 5 or 6 
cars, it's that bad. So far, I'm at 1 car!

Oh, by-the-by, you startes selling cars two years before I was born.

:)

Adieu

Jimmy


>From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
>Subject: Re: OT: Narnia movies
>Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 09:29:35 -0800
>
>
>On Thursday, December 13, 2001, at 05:49 AM, James Silva wrote:
>
>>
>>Hey Ray, try selling cars for a living. Since September 11th, starving
>>is something I no longer experience only as news story CBS.
>>
>Hey, James.
>
>1969 -- Dick Steal Rambler, Reseda, CA.
>1969-1970 -- Town & Country Ford, Reseda, CA
>1970 -- Westwood Volkswagen, Westwood, CA
>1971 -- Dependable Dodge, Canoga Park, CA
>1971 -- Tipton Olds--Jeep--Honda, La Mesa, CA
>1972 -- John Factor Volkswagen, Lemon Grove, CA
>
>Four of my seven years in sales were selling cars.
>
>One good thing about selling cars; hit a hot weekend, and you can be in
>serious money quickly.  Good luck.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
>stupidity.
>


_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx



1,,
Summary-line: 13-Dec            cries@yifan.net  [58] #Re: critics
X-Coding-System: undecided-unix
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Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 11:15:12 -0700
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: critics
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Allan Mills wrote:
> 
>  I remember that, it's considered fair enough to butter up a real critic and
> even give them pointers on what to write but it was totally scandalous to
> lie outright.

Well, it doesn't even sound like they need to, as all they seem to do is
pick out words amongst the sentences written about the movie. For all we
know, they might throw words together from two different sentences and
claim it as valid :P

I try not to listen to critics anyways.

Craig J. Ries



1, edited,,
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Subject: Re: OT: Narnia movies
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 19:59:47 -0600
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Chad Keffer" <feistfan@chadkeffer.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT: Narnia movies
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 19:59:47 -0600
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Is this the same guy that was bragging about the HDTV and
Progressive Scan DVD player he bought last year? :)

Does my father need to give you one his 'lectures'? :)

----- Original Message -----
>From: "Raymond Feist" <raymond@bittersea.com>
>To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
>Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 11:22 AM
>Subject: Re: OT: Narnia movies
>
>
>
>On Wednesday, December 12, 2001, at 08:08 PM, Craig J. Ries wrote:
>
>> Raymond Feist wrote:
>>>
>>>  From your mouth to God's ear; I NEED the money!
>>
>> Hrm. You starving that much, Ray?
>>
>> Craig J. Ries
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>You come over for a couple of months and pay my ex-wife's alimony,
>then
>see how much you've got left over . . .
>
><pained grin>
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away
>by
>stupidity.
>


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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 18:57:22 -0700
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT: Narnia movies
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Chad Keffer wrote:
> 
> Is this the same guy that was bragging about the HDTV and
> Progressive Scan DVD player he bought last year? :)

Umm, wtf are you talking about?

Craig J. Ries



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From: "Chad Keffer" <feistfan@chadkeffer.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
References: <F7D4E292-EFED-11D5-A446-003065A8A644@bittersea.com> <001a01c18443$029b9330$52c9b718@blvue1.ne.home.com> <3C195C82.B0D75EA7@yifan.net>
Subject: Re: OT: Narnia movies
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 20:26:11 -0600
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Chad Keffer" <feistfan@chadkeffer.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT: Narnia movies
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 20:26:11 -0600
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Well, Ray of course, this IS the FEISTfan mailing list.

----- Original Message ----- 
>From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
>To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
>Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 7:57 PM
>Subject: Re: OT: Narnia movies
>
>
>Chad Keffer wrote:
>> 
>> Is this the same guy that was bragging about the HDTV and
>> Progressive Scan DVD player he bought last year? :)
>
>Umm, wtf are you talking about?
>
>Craig J. Ries
>


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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 19:57:27 -0700
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT: Narnia movies
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Chad Keffer wrote:
> 
> Well, Ray of course, this IS the FEISTfan mailing list.

Ahh, thought those comments were directed at me for some reason :)

Craig J. Ries



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Summary-line: 13-Dec        kageyama@hawaii.edu  [70] #OT: Aloha!
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Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 19:13:23 -1000 (HST)
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From: "Canaan N. Machida" <kageyama@hawaii.edu>
Subject: OT: Aloha!
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Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 19:13:23 -1000 (HST)
From: "Canaan N. Machida" <kageyama@hawaii.edu>
Subject: OT: Aloha!
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Aloha Ray!

	I just wanted to re-introduce myself to you and the list.  I was a
feistfan member for years and had to take a break for the past year.  But
I'm back!  I also want to give you and Mr. Forstchen two thumbs up for the
great work you both did on "Honoured Enemy".  Although I had to grab it
from Amazon.com-UK, I was very impressed. To me, this novel goes into my
favorite top 3: ("Magician" & "The King's Buccaneer" as well).  Can't wait
for the next one.

PS: I also want to plug my site.  The Midkemian Character Age Timeline.
For anyone who loves the novels of Feist and have ever wondered of the
time progression throughout the novels.  I even include detailed character
descriptions for most of Ray's novels!


Mahalo,
...Canaan N. Machida
	...http://www2.hawaii.edu/~kageyama



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From: "Philip A. Culver" <parlor@mediaone.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: OT: Narnia movies
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 00:11:45 -0500
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Philip A. Culver" <parlor@mediaone.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: OT: Narnia movies
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 00:11:45 -0500
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I have to assume that no American version sales of your latest book can't be
helping.  JMHO.

-- Phil Culver

-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Raymond Feist
>Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 12:22 PM
>To: FEISTFANS-L
>Subject: Re: OT: Narnia movies
>
>
>
>On Wednesday, December 12, 2001, at 08:08 PM, Craig J. Ries wrote:
>
>> Raymond Feist wrote:
>>>
>>>  From your mouth to God's ear; I NEED the money!
>>
>> Hrm. You starving that much, Ray?
>>
>> Craig J. Ries
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>You come over for a couple of months and pay my ex-wife's alimony, then
>see how much you've got left over . . .
>
><pained grin>
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
>stupidity.
>


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Subject: Re:OT: Aloha!
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> PS: I also want to plug my site. The Midkemian Character Age Timeline.
> For anyone who loves the novels of Feist and have ever wondered of the
> time progression throughout the novels. I even include detailed character
> descriptions for most of Ray's novels!

Yeah I remember you :) Your site impressed me a lot (and was also very
useful when I did my Midkemia RPG campaign) 3 years ago.

I see you made a lot of improvments and I can also applaud for
this. Congratulations.

Syl
http://fenyx.kell.free.fr/english/feist.htm



1,,
Summary-line: 14-Dec        dreamfish@space.com  [55] #Re: OT: Narnia movies
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*** EOOH ***
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On Thu, 13 December 2001, Raymond Feist wrote:


> 1972 -- John Factor Volkswagen, Lemon Grove, CA 

 Just struck me kinda funny that a car dealership is in 'LEMON' Grove ;)
  
anita

___________________________________________________________________
Join the Space Program: Get FREE E-mail at http://www.space.com.



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Summary-line: 14-Dec       res0b95g@verizon.net  [56] #Thanks
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Jason Martin" <res0b95g@verizon.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Thanks
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 15:39:53 -0800
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Thanks to those who responded on the Newsgroup viewer question.  I ended up
getting Xnews to view my msgs with.  After about two days of use, I think I
like this one to recommend.  a little confusing at first to cofigure, but
now that I know how to do what I want to do its a good program.

Jason

"Too much knowlege never makes for simple decisions."
                           Ghanima- Children of Dune



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Summary-line: 14-Dec       res0b95g@verizon.net  [58] #OT:  X-files
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Subject: OT:  X-files
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Jason Martin" <res0b95g@verizon.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: OT:  X-files
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 23:43:16 -0800
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Anyone happen to catch last weeks Episode (12/9/01)  It was by far one of
the best ones I have seen in a few years.  Loving the new cast on the show.
Has season 9 started all over the place now?  Or is it only here in the
states?  Please reply off the list.

Thanks,

Jason

"Too much knowlege never makes for simple decisions."
                           Ghanima- Children of Dune



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From: "Paddyjack [ ]" <erykel@lycos.com>
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Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 09:51:40 -0500
From: "Paddyjack [ ]" <erykel@lycos.com>
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--

On Wed, 12 Dec 2001 21:12:41  
 Jason Martin wrote:
> Does anyone know where to go to get a good freeware program to view
>newsgroups?  For some reason Outlook and I just do not get along at all.
>Half the time it never opens the newsgroups because it times out.   I know
>it shouldn't be a problem with DSL.  Anyhow anything will work for me.  I
>just want to read msgs and don't care if I download any files or anything.
>

For newsgroup I always use a commercial account like Hotmail, Lycos
(like this one), etc. You filter as much as you want, especially with
Hotmail, and no downloading of messages.

Moreover, anytime I use an e-mail account on the web, I use those
commercial account. Doing that, spam messages are directed toward
those accounts, not in my "real" one.

Paddyjack

>Thanks,
>
>Jason
>
>"Too much knowlege never makes for simple decisions."
>                           Ghanima- Children of Dune
>
>



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X-PH: V4.1@mailhub2 (Cornell Modified) 
From: "Black Dragon" <blackdragon@gamebox.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
References: <BGJAAHJDEIJKFAAA@mailcity.com>
Subject: Re: newsgroup viewer?
Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 21:32:05 +0600
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Black Dragon" <blackdragon@gamebox.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: newsgroup viewer?
Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 21:32:05 +0600
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

>For newsgroup I always use a commercial account like Hotmail, Lycos
>(like this one), etc. You filter as much as you want, especially with
>Hotmail, and no downloading of messages.
>
>Moreover, anytime I use an e-mail account on the web, I use those
>commercial account. Doing that, spam messages are directed toward those
>accounts, not in my "real" one.
>
>Paddyjack
>

Can you use Licos as a POP3 a/c or just web-based?

I use Yahoo! and Hotpop as POP3 but I have a problem, I have to recieve
mails first, then send them. Otherwise I get an error msg saying they
couldn't varify my a/c name etc.

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Subject: Wines
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From: "Kevin" <kevykev@sbcglobal.net>
To: "Feistfans" <Feistfans-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Wines
Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 07:36:39 -0800
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Hi Ray

I saw on Crydee.com your a wine aficionado, I should expect that from
your writing of Darkmoor in Shadow of a Dark Queen.I've been 21 since
June, could you recommend a wine? (Napa Valley is just over the hill
from me)

                     Kevin Etter
Caution:Trust Me

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Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 08:36:11 -0800
Subject: Re: Wines
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Saturday, December 15, 2001, at 07:36 AM, Kevin wrote:

> Hi Ray
>  
> I saw on Crydee.com your a wine aficionado, I should expect that from 
> your writing of Darkmoor in Shadow of a Dark Queen.I've been 21 since 
> June, could you recommend a wine? (Napa Valley is just over the hill 
> from me)
>  
>                      Kevin Etter
> Caution:Trust Me
>
>

 From Napa?  I could recommend two or three hundred from right around 
where you live.  Price range?  Variety?  Have you been drinking anything 
more complex than Boon's Farm?

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.

1,,
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From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
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More complex than Boon's Farms, hmm, let me see, well, there was the Wild 
Irish Rose I polishied off last night. I have some vintage Night Train and 
Thunderbird in the fridge. And of course, there is that bottle of Mad Dog I 
have been saving for a real special occassion.

:)

Adieu

Jimmy


>From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
>Subject: Re: Wines
>Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 08:36:11 -0800
>
>
>On Saturday, December 15, 2001, at 07:36 AM, Kevin wrote:
>
>>Hi Ray
>> 
>>I saw on Crydee.com your a wine aficionado, I should expect that from your 
>>writing of Darkmoor in Shadow of a Dark Queen.I've been 21 since June, 
>>could you recommend a wine? (Napa Valley is just over the hill from me)
>> 
>>                     Kevin Etter
>>Caution:Trust Me
>>
>>
>
>From Napa?  I could recommend two or three hundred from right around where 
>you live.  Price range?  Variety?  Have you been drinking anything more 
>complex than Boon's Farm?
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
>stupidity.


_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Chad Keffer" <feistfan@chadkeffer.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Wines
Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 04:24:24 -0600
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Kevin,

I always liked Beringers and V. Sattui.

- Chad
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: Kevin 
> To: Feistfans 
> Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2001 9:36 AM
> Subject: Wines
>
>
> Hi Ray
>
> I saw on Crydee.com your a wine aficionado, I should expect that
> from your writing of Darkmoor in Shadow of a Dark Queen.I've been 21
> since June, could you recommend a wine? (Napa Valley is just over
> the hill from me)
> 
>		       Kevin Etter
> Caution:Trust Me

1, edited,,
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 12:07:36 +0100
Subject: Re: Wines
From: "Sylvain Guehl" <fenyxkell@demo.xandmail.com>
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Any favorite french wine Mr Feist ?

:)

Syl, Chinon drinker.

> 
> On Saturday, December 15, 2001, at 07:36 AM, Kevin wrote:
> 
> > Hi Ray
> >  
> > I saw on Crydee.com your a wine aficionado, I should expect that from 
> > your writing of Darkmoor in Shadow of a Dark Queen.I've been 21 since 
> > June, could you recommend a wine? (Napa Valley is just over the hill 
> > from me)
> >  
> >                      Kevin Etter
> > Caution:Trust Me
> >
> >
> 
> From Napa? I could recommend two or three hundred from right around 
> where you live. Price range? Variety? Have you been drinking anything 
> more complex than Boon's Farm?
> 
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
> 
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
> stupidity.
> 
> 


Fenyx Kell.

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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 09:56:05 -0800
Subject: Re: Wines
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Sunday, December 16, 2001, at 03:07 AM, Sylvain Guehl wrote:

> Any favorite french wine Mr Feist ?
>  
>

Got a week or two to talk about it?

Let's be obvious and start with the 1st Growth Bordeaux and Premer Cru 
Burgundy and work our way down the to Vin du Pays you can get for under 
$8.  I'm also a big fan of Rhone Valley wines.

If you have any Chateau Margaux or Domain de Roman-Contee laying around 
you want to send over here, let me know.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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From: "Michael Gibson" <gibbyfish@yahoo.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Wines
Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 18:19:00 -0000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Michael Gibson" <gibbyfish@yahoo.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Wines
Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 18:19:00 -0000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

> On Sunday, December 16, 2001, at 03:07 AM, Sylvain Guehl wrote:
>
> > Any favorite french wine Mr Feist ?
> >  
> >
>
> Got a week or two to talk about it?
>
> Let's be obvious and start with the 1st Growth Bordeaux and Premer Cru
> Burgundy and work our way down the to Vin du Pays you can get for under
> $8.  I'm also a big fan of Rhone Valley wines.

Even being a wine luddite, I appreciate the Rhone valley wines I've had - mainly
Cotes du Rhone.

On a side note, does "Vin du Pays" mean "wine of the country"?  When I did
French at school a few years back, it was one of those things I meant to find
out, but never did.

Mike,
Gibfish of the West

"Better to light a candle than to curse the darkness."
Confucius

> If you have any Chateau Margaux or Domain de Roman-Contee laying around
> you want to send over here, let me know.
>
> Best, R.E.F.


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com



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Summary-line: 17-Dec      sulimo@bigpond.net.au  [61] #Re: Wines
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 11:05:53 +1100
From: "Jason Mulligan" <sulimo@bigpond.net.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Wines
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On 16/12/2001 at 09:56 AM Raymond Feist wrote:

>On Sunday, December 16, 2001, at 03:07 AM, Sylvain Guehl wrote:
>
>> Any favorite french wine Mr Feist ?
>>  
>>
>
>Got a week or two to talk about it?

So, what do think about Australian wine?

o



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Summary-line: 16-Dec      raymond@bittersea.com  [73] #Re: Wines
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 16:31:04 -0800
Subject: Re: Wines
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Sunday, December 16, 2001, at 04:05 PM, Jason Mulligan wrote:

> On 16/12/2001 at 09:56 AM Raymond Feist wrote:
>
>> On Sunday, December 16, 2001, at 03:07 AM, Sylvain Guehl wrote:
>>
>>> Any favorite french wine Mr Feist ?
>>>  
>>>
>>
>> Got a week or two to talk about it?
>
> So, what do think about Australian wine?
>
> o
>
>
>
>

I like the good ones.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Summary-line: 17-Dec  ard.williamson@windriver.  [53] #Re: Wines
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From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: Wines
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 09:12:38 +0000
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: Wines
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

At 09:56 AM 12/16/01 -0800, Raymond Feist wrote:
> If you have any Chateau Margaux ...

For a Margaux, I'd (be almost tempted to ;->) return to France.

rip



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Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 06:55:30 -0800 (PST)
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From: Fred Collington <fcolling@yahoo.com>
Subject: Salute to Tolkein?
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 06:55:30 -0800 (PST)
From: Fred Collington <fcolling@yahoo.com>
Subject: Salute to Tolkein?
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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I must be losing my mind. I remember reading a mention
of a book of short stories on this list, containing
one written by Ray, honoring Tolkein. I was shopping
last weekend, checked two big stores and got nothing.
No listing in their computer. Can anyone tell me the
name? Or has the round of Christmas parties left my
brain fried?

Thanks,
Fred


=====
Fred Collington
Oracle DBA
Naval Air Warfare Center, Training Systems Division

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of
your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com
or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com



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Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 07:32:12 -0800
Subject: Re: Wines
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 07:32:12 -0800
Subject: Re: Wines
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Monday, December 17, 2001, at 01:12 AM, Richard Williamson wrote:

> At 09:56 AM 12/16/01 -0800, Raymond Feist wrote:
>> If you have any Chateau Margaux ...
>
> For a Margaux, I'd (be almost tempted to ;->) return to France.
>
> rip
>
>
>
>
I'd love to find a decent supply of Chateau Palmer.  The word is out 
it's the best buy from Margaux.   Unfortunately, of the different 
regions of Bordeaux, Margaux has the fewest wineries producing.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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At 09:55 AM 12/17/01, you wrote:
>I must be losing my mind. I remember reading a mention
>of a book of short stories on this list, containing
>one written by Ray, honoring Tolkein. I was shopping
>last weekend, checked two big stores and got nothing.
>No listing in their computer. Can anyone tell me the
>name? Or has the round of Christmas parties left my
>brain fried?
>
>Thanks,
>Fred
>
>
>=====
>Fred Collington
>Oracle DBA
>Naval Air Warfare Center, Training Systems Division
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of
>your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com
>or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com

The book is actually called Meditations on Middle Earth.  I've seen it in 
the Science Fiction/Fantasy section of my local Waldenbooks and briefly 
looked at Ray's essay.  Please note that is not a collection of short 
stories rather it is a collection of essays.

Sean Fister



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From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
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Or if anybody else has been lucky enough to get an advance screening:

We've seen/heard alot about Arwen for Fellowship, but, well, she was
really nothing more than a footnote in the book and certainly had no
speaking lines.

What do you think of her portrayal in the movie as more of a central
character? Or has she been overhyped and she is not in fact a central
character?

Craig J. Ries



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> If you have any Chateau Margaux or Domain de Roman-Contee laying around 
> you want to send over here, let me know.
> 
> Best, R.E.F.

<raising an eyebrow>

If you have some notes about your future books laying around you want
to send over here, just let me know, we might have a deal then ;op

<GRIN>

Syl

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Australian wines are like Japanese cars - they don't make the best in the
world, but they don't make a bad one either.

:-)

> So, what do think about Australian wine?

BJS

2 more days to LOTR :-)



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 12:44:57 -0800
Subject: Re: OT for Ray: Question about FotR :)
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
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On Monday, December 17, 2001, at 10:47 AM, Craig J. Ries wrote:

> Or if anybody else has been lucky enough to get an advance screening:
>
> We've seen/heard alot about Arwen for Fellowship, but, well, she was
> really nothing more than a footnote in the book and certainly had no
> speaking lines.
>
> What do you think of her portrayal in the movie as more of a central
> character? Or has she been overhyped and she is not in fact a central
> character?
>
> Craig J. Ries
>
>
>
>
1) wait until you've seen it and then discuss it.

2) discuss it on a Tolkien or film discussion group.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 12:46:35 -0800
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 12:46:35 -0800
Subject: Re: Wines
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Monday, December 17, 2001, at 11:59 AM, <lists@bjs.org.uk> wrote:

> Australian wines are like Japanese cars - they don't make the best in 
> the
> world, but they don't make a bad one either.


Disagree.  They make a few of the best in the world.  Ozzie Shiraz, when 
done to the level of the Hill of Grace or GSM is stunning.  I don't 
include Grange, because they're working really hard at making it taste 
like it came from the Rhone, and you can find better from the Rhone at 
less money, but Grange s very good.  Just overpriced/overhyped.

Best,R.E.F.

----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Subject: Re: Wines 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 17 Dec 2001 12:46:35 -0800."
             <293F7ACE-F32F-11D5-8079-003065A8A644@bittersea.com> 
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Subject: Re: Wines 
Cc: Alan.Hargreaves@Sun.COM
From: Alan.Hargreaves@Sun.COM
Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 08:58:05 +1100
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Ray typed:
> Disagree.  They make a few of the best in the world.  Ozzie Shiraz, when 
> done to the level of the Hill of Grace or GSM is stunning.  I don't 
> include Grange, because they're working really hard at making it taste 
> like it came from the Rhone, and you can find better from the Rhone at 
> less money, but Grange s very good.  Just overpriced/overhyped.

I've got to agree with you about the Hill of Grace. A few years back I
visited the Henschke cellars and they had a bottle open. It was
lovely.

I also love the way that Wolf Blass works with his oak.


alan.
--
Alan Hargreaves                 Senior Technical Support Specialist
Phone      : +61 2 9844 5379    Technical Support Group
Mobile     : +61 416 207 573    APAC Customer Care Centre
Fax        : +61 2 9418 2143    Sun Microsystems Australia
Call Centre: 1 800 555 786      828 Pacific Highway, Gordon NSW 2072

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Subject: Re: Wines
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*** EOOH ***
From: Brad_A_Krahe@allegiance.com.au
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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 09:22:50 +1100
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Try anything 1998 from the Coonawarra region, thats all I'm drinking at the
moment very very nice if you find the right one (Jamiesons Run), haven't
had much of the Wolf Blass - what are the reds like?

Regards,

Brad Krahe
SAP Business & Support Consultant
Allegiance Systems



>
>Alan.Hargreaves@Sun.COM on 18/12/2001 08:58:05
>
>Please respond to FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>
>To:   FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
>cc:   Alan.Hargreaves@Sun.COM (bcc: Brad A Krahe/HCS)
>Subject:  Re: Wines
>
>
>
>
>Ray typed:
>> Disagree.  They make a few of the best in the world.  Ozzie Shiraz, when
>> done to the level of the Hill of Grace or GSM is stunning.  I don't
>> include Grange, because they're working really hard at making it taste
>> like it came from the Rhone, and you can find better from the Rhone at
>> less money, but Grange s very good.  Just overpriced/overhyped.
>
>I've got to agree with you about the Hill of Grace. A few years back I
>visited the Henschke cellars and they had a bottle open. It was lovely.
>
>I also love the way that Wolf Blass works with his oak.
>
>
>alan.
>--
>Alan Hargreaves                 Senior Technical Support Specialist
>Phone      : +61 2 9844 5379    Technical Support Group
>Mobile     : +61 416 207 573    APAC Customer Care Centre
>Fax        : +61 2 9418 2143    Sun Microsystems Australia
>Call Centre: 1 800 555 786      828 Pacific Highway, Gordon NSW 2072
>
> /"\
> \ / ASCII Ribbon Campaign
>  X  Against HTML Mail
> / \
>








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*** EOOH ***
From: JEEPMONSTER69@aol.com
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 20:04:43 EST
Subject: Re: Wines
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

In a message dated 12/17/2001 10:46:40 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
raymond@bittersea.com writes:


> > At 09:56 AM 12/16/01 -0800, Raymond Feist wrote:
> >> If you have any Chateau Margaux ...
> >
> > For a Margaux, I'd (be almost tempted to ;->) return to France.
> >
> > rip
> >
> >
> >
> >
> I'd love to find a decent supply of Chateau Palmer.  The word is out 
> it's the best buy from Margaux.   Unfortunately, of the different 
> regions of Bordeaux, Margaux has the fewest wineries producing.
> 
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
> 
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
> stupidity.
> 

What about Beaujolais? Im not sure what vintage, but its good stuff.

                   Peace,
                                           Matt "The Fop"



"Ryden Dirtay- WOOH-WOOH!"- Psychopathic Rydas 

Cyanide Jokerz Homepage - see it and learn 

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From: "Kevin" <kevykev@sbcglobal.net>
To: "Feistfans" <Feistfans-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE:Australian Wines
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 17:11:55 -0800
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Kevin" <kevykev@sbcglobal.net>
To: "Feistfans" <Feistfans-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE:Australian Wines
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 17:11:55 -0800
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


I've heard "The Bruces' Philosophers Song" by Monty Python

 http://www.library.adelaide.edu.au/guide/hum/philosophy/philos_song.html

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <lists@bjs.org.uk>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L' (FEISTFANS-L)" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 11:59 AM
Subject: RE: Wines


> Australian wines are like Japanese cars - they don't make the best in the
> world, but they don't make a bad one either.
> 
> :-)
> 
> > So, what do think about Australian wine?
> 
> BJS
> 
> 2 more days to LOTR :-)
> 

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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 18:08:15 -0800
Subject: Re: Wines
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Monday, December 17, 2001, at 05:04 PM, JEEPMONSTER69@aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 12/17/2001 10:46:40 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
> raymond@bittersea.com writes:
>
>
> > At 09:56 AM 12/16/01 -0800, Raymond Feist wrote:
> >> If you have any Chateau Margaux ...
> >
> > For a Margaux, I'd (be almost tempted to ;->) return to France.
> >
> > rip
> >
> >
> >
> >
> I'd love to find a decent supply of Chateau Palmer.  The word is out
> it's the best buy from Margaux.   Unfortunately, of the different
> regions of Bordeaux, Margaux has the fewest wineries producing.
>
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
>
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
> stupidity.
>
>
>
> What about Beaujolais? Im not sure what vintage, but its good stuff.
>

Beaujolais is a region just south of Burgundy.  They make their reds 
from gamay grapes.  Some of the Moul-al-vens and Villages are fine 
wines, but the region doesn't produce the great wines other parts of 
France does.  And like any region, you've got to start talking about 
winemaker/negotiant and vintage.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.

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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 21:15:24 +1100
From: David Smith <David.M.Smith@Sun.COM>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Wines
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> >
> > So, what do think about Australian wine?
> >
> > o
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> I like the good ones.
>
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----

So that'll be just about all of them then Ray <BG>

-- David Smith



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Subject: The Novels
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Nev Yn" <alien4@wasp.net.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: The Novels
Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 18:34:22 +0800
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Hi Ray

I was just curious, what was your original inspiration/driving force
for the creation of Magician?

Thanks

Jason

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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 06:42:54 -0800
Subject: Re: Wines
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Tuesday, December 18, 2001, at 02:15 AM, David Smith wrote:

>>>
>>> So, what do think about Australian wine?
>>>
>>> o
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> I like the good ones.
>>
>> Best, R.E.F.
>> ----
>
> So that'll be just about all of them then Ray <BG>
>

Only in the dreams of the Australian Wine Industry.  There's a lot of 
plonk, everywhere, including Oz.

Remember, most wines in the world are made to be drunk 48 hours after 
purchase, and there's more bulk wine made (jug wine), sold and drunk 
than all the fine wine in the world combined.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 06:44:11 -0800
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 06:44:11 -0800
Subject: Re: The Novels
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Tuesday, December 18, 2001, at 02:34 AM, Nev Yn wrote:

> Hi Ray
>  
> I was just curious, what was your original inspiration/driving force 
> for the creation of Magician?
>  
> Thanks
>  
> Jason
>
>

Originally, it was just for amusement.  I wanted to write a short novel 
about Midkemia, and things got out of control.

Hard to remember the details after 23 years.

Best,R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.

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*** EOOH ***
From: "Nev Yn" <alien4@wasp.net.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: The Novels
Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 23:48:42 +0800
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>Originally, it was just for amusement. I wanted to write a short
>novel about Midkemia, and things got out of control.


Indeed, I know what you mean. A short film I wrote for Year 12 Media
turned into a 140 page screenplay.

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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 08:45:59 -0800
Subject: Re: The Novels
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
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On Tuesday, December 18, 2001, at 07:48 AM, Nev Yn wrote:

>
> >Originally, it was just for amusement. I wanted to write a short novel 
> about Midkemia, and things got out of control.
>
>
> Indeed, I know what you mean. A short film I wrote for Year 12 Media 
> turned into a 140 page screenplay.
>  
>
>
Given the usual "minute a page" rule-of-thumb, that's a long movie.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.

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Subject: Wine Question
Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 19:38:15 +0100
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Annelize & Tommy" <tommjens@online.no>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Wine Question
Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 19:38:15 +0100
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Hi!

I'm delurking to ask those of you that are interested in wine a quick
question;

What are your feelings on South African wine? Have you tried it, what
did you think about it, any special ones that I should try out?

Thanks for letting me waste your time with an off topic question while
I'm impatiently waiting to unwrap "Honoured Enemy" from my christmas
gift pile :-)

Tommy Jensen

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Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 15:53:03 -0800
Subject: Re: Wine Question
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Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 15:53:03 -0800
Subject: Re: Wine Question
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Tuesday, December 18, 2001, at 10:38 AM, Annelize & Tommy wrote:

> Hi!
>  
> I'm delurking to ask those of you that are interested in wine a quick 
> question;
>  
> What are your feelings on South African wine? Have you tried it, what 
> did you think about it, any special ones that I should try out?
>  
> Thanks for letting me waste your time with an off topic question while 
> I'm impatiently waiting to unwrap "Honoured Enemy" from my christmas 
> gift pile :-)
>  
> Tommy Jensen
>
>

I'm pretty new to SA wines, given the embargo kept them off shore for 
years.  But the few I've had are pretty fine.

Mullerbok and Stellerbok were two that were memorable, both German style 
whites with very fine variety characteristics.  One was a blend of Rhone 
varieties, and the other was a Resiling, but I'm sorry to say I can't 
remember which was which.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.

1,,
Summary-line: 19-Dec        andrea@bloodaxe.com  [71] #Re: Wine Question
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Subject: Re: Wine Question
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 02:10:40 +0000
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Andrea J Chee <andrea@bloodaxe.com>
Subject: Re: Wine Question
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In article <001901c187f3$280678c0$c9d14382@oemcomputer>, Annelize &
Tommy <tommjens@online.no> writes
>     
>    What are your feelings on South African wine? Have you tried it, 
>    what did you think about it, any special ones that I should try 
>    out?

Kleinbosch from SA is my favourite inexpensive tipple compared to any
I've tried from anywhere else. A dry Riesling, it's fruity and pleasant,
although it may be a bit too lively for the taste of many connoisseurs.
As I drink extremely rarely, I tend to go for wines where the flavour is
obvious and uncomplicated, and which don't require that you acquire a
taste for them before you can enjoy them.

- ANDREA

-- 
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Subject: Re: Wine Question
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From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Wine Question
Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 01:26:10 -0600
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I like your approach!  We'll have to go out drinking some time.

> I've tried from anywhere else. A dry Riesling, it's fruity and pleasant,
> although it may be a bit too lively for the taste of many connoisseurs.
> As I drink extremely rarely, I tend to go for wines where the flavour is
> obvious and uncomplicated, and which don't require that you acquire a
> taste for them before you can enjoy them.




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From: "Nev Yn" <alien4@wasp.net.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: An Incident
Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 19:58:38 +0800
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Nev Yn" <alien4@wasp.net.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: An Incident
Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 19:58:38 +0800
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Hello List, hello Ray.. 

Well Im bored... and I just need to get this written out, and thought
you guys would listen... Im a 18 yr old male... and I have 7mnth old
baby... his mom moved interstate to study teaching and design... Like
every afternoon at 4:30PM, My friend, my baby, my dogs and I went for
a walk to the park... there were two kids there on their skateboards,
and a mom and her 3 kids at the swings... We walked into the park and
were walking across to the lake when these two guys come up and knock
my baby's pram over... he got cut... and started beating the absoloute
snot out of me and my friend. Now, I am a human being of values, and
so is my friend, and we refuse to fight back - I had to fight in
defense of my baby,and I now have a bruised jaw and cracked lips. We
ran across to a house, I let the dogs off and they ran home (thankgod)
and we knocked on the door.......rang the door bell, even, and this
bi*ch of a woman answers screaming "THANKYOU VEYR MUCH FOR WAKING UP
MY BABY" whilst my baby is screaming - her baby was only about 2mnths
i guess... but so what?we asked her if she could ring the police for
us... she told us to rack off, and these guys were standing there on
the driveway threating us... so we left...and they followed... and
they chased my friend home... he got home, then they came and told me
if we didnt come fight them they'd kill my kid and smash up my home...

Now, I am absoloutly appalled. I didn't even know these people - and
the behaviour of that woman absoloutly shocked me. Is this what
society has come to? How can human beings degrade to this level of
behaviour?

Anyones views would be apprecited...



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Subject: Re: An Incident
Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 22:22:41 +0930
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From: "Sonia Tabe" <sonia@nt-tech.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: An Incident
Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 22:22:41 +0930
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I have an opinion.

There are some terrible people out there. Some are worse than others, that's
true. It's an awful thing that happened to you, and I hope the karma returns
back to those people.

I hope nothing bad happens to you again from those thugs.




>----- Original Message -----
>From: Nev Yn
>To: FEISTFANS-L
>Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2001 9:28 PM
>Subject: An Incident
>
>
>Hello List, hello Ray..
>
>Well Im bored... and I just need to get this written out, and thought you
>guys would listen... Im a 18 yr old male... and I have 7mnth old baby... his
>mom moved interstate to study teaching and design... Like every afternoon at
>4:30PM, My friend, my baby, my dogs and I went for a walk to the park...
>there were two kids there on their skateboards, and a mom and her 3 kids at
>the swings... We walked into the park and were walking across to the lake
>when these two guys come up and knock my baby's pram over... he got cut...
>and started beating the absoloute snot out of me and my friend. Now, I am a
>human being of values, and so is my friend, and we refuse to fight back - I
>had to fight in defense of my baby,and I now have a bruised jaw and cracked
>lips. We ran across to a house, I let the dogs off and they ran home
>(thankgod) and we knocked on the door.......rang the door bell, even, and
>this bi*ch of a woman answers screaming "THANKYOU VEYR MUCH FOR WAKING UP MY
>BABY" whilst my baby is screaming - her baby was only about 2mnths i
>guess... but so what?we asked her if she could ring the police for us... she
>told us to rack off, and these guys were standing there on the driveway
>threating us... so we left...and they followed... and they chased my friend
>home... he got home, then they came and told me if we didnt come fight them
>they'd kill my kid and smash up my home...
>
>Now, I am absoloutly appalled. I didn't even know these people - and the
>behaviour of that woman absoloutly shocked me. Is this what society has come
>to? How can human beings degrade to this level of behaviour?
>
>Anyones views would be apprecited...
>

1,,
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To: Nev Yn <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: An Incident
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*** EOOH ***
From: Kurgan@LittleBlueRoom.com
Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 07:33:57 -0600
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
To: Nev Yn <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: An Incident
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Hello Nev,

NY> Now, I am absoloutly appalled. I didn't even know these people - and the
NY> behaviour of that woman absoloutly shocked me. Is this what society has
NY> come to? How can human beings degrade to this level of behaviour?

NY> Anyones views would be apprecited...

     It sickens me to read this, but I've seen it time and time again.
     I can't help but be reminded, each time I hear such a story, of
     all the people that demand our society be stripped of its ability
     to protect itself, not to mention the simple desire to do so. I'm
     not just referring to guns, but of any ability or desire to stand
     up against the sick elements of our society and ensure the
     safety of yourself and your loved ones. I'll share what advice I
     can, but allow me to qualify it by an anecdote or two first.
        Years ago I was in a situation similar to yours. I was walking
     alone and had a carload of drunks pick a fight with me. You must
     remember that there is no logic in these events, so you cannot
     deal with them logically. These types of people want something to
     make the adrenalin flow, and they don't care what it is or who
     gets hurt. In this case they jumped me and we fought for a short
     while. I eventually walked across the street to a restaurant (my
     original destination) and do you know what they did? The girl on
     the other side of the glass looked up and saw me standing there,
     covered in blood, my clothing ripped to shreds, and said, "Sorry,
     we're closed" without missing a beat, and returned to mopping the
     floor. I was stunned. I walked around the building, only to see
     the carload coming back (apparently the leader had woken back up
     from me giving him a nap) and they wanted more. They came at me
     with baseball bats and fists, and it was an ex-Marine pulling up
     with and whipping out a shotgun that made them run and saved the
     day. I'll never forget that grisly voice saying, "I don't like an
     unfair fight...".
        Now, people are going to tell you lots of different things as
     time goes by. Your going to hear "you were right to run" or "You
     should have killed the bastards" among other comments. I'm not
     going to debate who is right --I have my own opinions-- but what
     I would like to say is that there is only one thing you actually
     need right now, and that is the facts and the truth, so you can
     make your own decisions on how to both proceed with this
     situation and live your life. The facts are that such people as
     you encountered tonight exist, and will continue to exist. All
     the laws and debates in the world won't change that. You've got
     to decide how you wish to move through your life and how prepared
     you wish to be as well as what forms of preparedness you can
     accept.
        Some of the solutions will be obvious, and I won't attempt to
     list or condone them. That's your call. I will, however, tell you
     what I chose to do, and you can take from it what you will as you
     see fit. I realized long ago that there is a sick, twisted
     portion of humanity and that they will probably cross my path, or
     someone I care about's path, somewhere along the way. Knowing
     that, I chose the path of defensive studies. Martial arts, etc. It
     has served me well, but the one thing that many people don't
     realize is that it is your demeanor and bearing that impart to
     these predators your potential as a victim. Many times you can
     avoid such incidents simply by carrying yourself in a more
     confident manner and showing them their aggression will not be
     tolerated. I've personally had entire gangs change their mind an
     walk away simply because I stared them down and said nothing.
        Another thing to keep in mind, is that you also must know in
     your heart exactly how far you are willing to go to defend
     yourself or someone else if the need arises. This, too, shows
     itself in your countenance. If you know for certain that you will
     not hesitate to destroy the threat and give in kind, then many
     such threats will sense that and avoid you like the plague. This
     is, I should say, a far cry from macho and blustering. Forget the
     movies. Stay calm and quiet and in control of yourself and the
     situation. This is how I do things and it works very well. How
     often do we see examples of the good guy letting the bad guy off
     easy, only to see the bad guy take advantage of it and come back,
     usually harming or killing someone dear to the good guy? I've
     personally removed that notion from my catalogue of responses,
     and again, that shows, too. Be prepared to do what needs to be
     done, and do it quickly and efficiently, and that attitude will
     convey itself to many attackers before they choose to harm you.
     Keep that attitude for whatever methods of protection you see
     fit to employ. I'm not just a guy off the street giving you
     casual advice. I was a professional mercenary, and the advice I'm
     giving you is from many long years of experience, so please at
     least give it consideration. If you can learn to deal with these
     situations and the appropriate skills to employ, you can then in
     most cases pick your own battleground and alter the timing to
     confuse and frighten would-be aggressors.
        If you would indulge me, or if you would like to know what I
     would have done in your situation (not to say you should have
     done this, only to show you one possible solution under similar
     circumstances) then here it is. Two attackers are approaching as
     you described. I'm walking along with my child. That is the first
     break point. The attackers demeanor shows them for what they are,
     and I have a child to worry about, so this situation cannot go
     further. I would have stepped forward and stopped them from
     advancing by turning the attack back onto them. Identify the
     leader and incapacitate him. My own personal choice in a
     situation of men willing to harm a child is lethal force, so I
     would immediately drop the leader, withholding nothing. I don't
     care if he dies. More than likely the second attacker will flee
     instantly. If he does, I let him. If he doesn't, he is not allowed
     to attack because I've pushed the attack onto him. He is now on
     the defensive and has no opportunity to harm my child. If I've
     got a friend along as you did, then I'd have told him beforehand
     what to do in a situation like this if it should occur, and he's
     a block away by now with my kid, removing him from danger. The
     key is to never show them weakness, because that is what they
     thrive on, and to never show an instants hesitation or lack of
     confidence. Never trust people you don't know or assume they
     will do the 'right thing', or even that they will understand what
     is happening to be able to lend assistance. That woman you tried
     to get to call the police for you is a perfect example of what
     you can, unfortunately, expect in most cases. Sad, but true.
        I hope you find within yourself whatever it is you need to
     overcome the feelings you will undoubtedly have over such a
     traumatic experience. I wish you the best, and hope you take my
     words in the spirit they are offered. You handled yourself well,
     and didn't attempt to push yourself beyond your abilities. You'll
     make a fine father with that attitude. Don't fall for any of the
     guilt feelings you're going to experience for the next few weeks.
     You won't be able to help daydreaming about alternate scenarios
     and how things could have been different. Human nature. However,
     what you choose to do from this point on will be an important
     turning point for you, so give it serious thought and weigh all
     the advice you receive from everyone, my own included, against
     your heart, your conscience, and your morals. The best path for
     you will make itself clear given time, just prepare yourself to
     be able to see it when it does.


     Ps. If studying martial arts does become one of your choices,
     please feel free to email me and I'll gladly help you find which
     style fits your goals and beliefs. There are pacifistic arts
     available that do not employ any form of attack, and I recommend
     those to people who are pacifist by nature.


Best regards,

   Kurgan                            mailto:Kurgan@LittleBlueRoom.com



1,,
Summary-line: 19-Dec        kiehtan@hotmail.com [193] #Re: An Incident
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From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
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From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: An Incident
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Hello Nev. First I would like to say that I think the advice that Kurgen has 
given you is excellent! There are all sorts of people out there. We 
certainly do live in a violent society. It is one of the reasons that I 
carry a (lawfully licensed) firearm for self defense. I am a firearms 
instructor. I have NEVER EVER had to pull it, and I hope to God that I never 
do! Carrying a firearm is a deeply personal choice, with many legal and 
moral ramifications which should not be made lightly.  And if it is a choice 
you or anyone else pursues, you should make certain that you constantly 
train with the weapon, and learn the law regarding them inside and out, for 
every state, county, and city that you may find yourself in.

I was reading an article in the "Brockton Enterprise" newspaper yesterday 
where an individual from the city of Brockton, MA broke into a Taunton, MA 
woman's apartment, brought here from room to room at gunpoint, and robbed 
her of I forget how much. Luckily for her, she was unhurt. The criminal is a 
convicted felon who has been arrested twice before on illegal position of a 
firearm charges, as well as numerous other offenses. It goes up my "a##" 
when school children are suspended from school under zero tolerance rules 
for bringing in a toy, or for pointing a chicken leg at another student and 
saying "bang," and politicians and famous celebraties pour $$$ into further 
restricing the rights of those of us who just want to protect ourselves and 
our loved ones, and scum like this guy go free after numerous offenses only 
to rob, and sometime kill, again.

I think Teddy Roosevelt said it best when he said,"Walk softly and carry a 
big stick."

Adieu

Jimmy


>From: Kurgan@LittleBlueRoom.com
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: Nev Yn <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
>Subject: Re: An Incident
>Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 07:33:57 -0600
>
>Hello Nev,
>
>NY> Now, I am absoloutly appalled. I didn't even know these people - and 
>the
>NY> behaviour of that woman absoloutly shocked me. Is this what society has
>NY> come to? How can human beings degrade to this level of behaviour?
>
>NY> Anyones views would be apprecited...
>
>      It sickens me to read this, but I've seen it time and time again.
>      I can't help but be reminded, each time I hear such a story, of
>      all the people that demand our society be stripped of its ability
>      to protect itself, not to mention the simple desire to do so. I'm
>      not just referring to guns, but of any ability or desire to stand
>      up against the sick elements of our society and ensure the
>      safety of yourself and your loved ones. I'll share what advice I
>      can, but allow me to qualify it by an anecdote or two first.
>         Years ago I was in a situation similar to yours. I was walking
>      alone and had a carload of drunks pick a fight with me. You must
>      remember that there is no logic in these events, so you cannot
>      deal with them logically. These types of people want something to
>      make the adrenalin flow, and they don't care what it is or who
>      gets hurt. In this case they jumped me and we fought for a short
>      while. I eventually walked across the street to a restaurant (my
>      original destination) and do you know what they did? The girl on
>      the other side of the glass looked up and saw me standing there,
>      covered in blood, my clothing ripped to shreds, and said, "Sorry,
>      we're closed" without missing a beat, and returned to mopping the
>      floor. I was stunned. I walked around the building, only to see
>      the carload coming back (apparently the leader had woken back up
>      from me giving him a nap) and they wanted more. They came at me
>      with baseball bats and fists, and it was an ex-Marine pulling up
>      with and whipping out a shotgun that made them run and saved the
>      day. I'll never forget that grisly voice saying, "I don't like an
>      unfair fight...".
>         Now, people are going to tell you lots of different things as
>      time goes by. Your going to hear "you were right to run" or "You
>      should have killed the bastards" among other comments. I'm not
>      going to debate who is right --I have my own opinions-- but what
>      I would like to say is that there is only one thing you actually
>      need right now, and that is the facts and the truth, so you can
>      make your own decisions on how to both proceed with this
>      situation and live your life. The facts are that such people as
>      you encountered tonight exist, and will continue to exist. All
>      the laws and debates in the world won't change that. You've got
>      to decide how you wish to move through your life and how prepared
>      you wish to be as well as what forms of preparedness you can
>      accept.
>         Some of the solutions will be obvious, and I won't attempt to
>      list or condone them. That's your call. I will, however, tell you
>      what I chose to do, and you can take from it what you will as you
>      see fit. I realized long ago that there is a sick, twisted
>      portion of humanity and that they will probably cross my path, or
>      someone I care about's path, somewhere along the way. Knowing
>      that, I chose the path of defensive studies. Martial arts, etc. It
>      has served me well, but the one thing that many people don't
>      realize is that it is your demeanor and bearing that impart to
>      these predators your potential as a victim. Many times you can
>      avoid such incidents simply by carrying yourself in a more
>      confident manner and showing them their aggression will not be
>      tolerated. I've personally had entire gangs change their mind an
>      walk away simply because I stared them down and said nothing.
>         Another thing to keep in mind, is that you also must know in
>      your heart exactly how far you are willing to go to defend
>      yourself or someone else if the need arises. This, too, shows
>      itself in your countenance. If you know for certain that you will
>      not hesitate to destroy the threat and give in kind, then many
>      such threats will sense that and avoid you like the plague. This
>      is, I should say, a far cry from macho and blustering. Forget the
>      movies. Stay calm and quiet and in control of yourself and the
>      situation. This is how I do things and it works very well. How
>      often do we see examples of the good guy letting the bad guy off
>      easy, only to see the bad guy take advantage of it and come back,
>      usually harming or killing someone dear to the good guy? I've
>      personally removed that notion from my catalogue of responses,
>      and again, that shows, too. Be prepared to do what needs to be
>      done, and do it quickly and efficiently, and that attitude will
>      convey itself to many attackers before they choose to harm you.
>      Keep that attitude for whatever methods of protection you see
>      fit to employ. I'm not just a guy off the street giving you
>      casual advice. I was a professional mercenary, and the advice I'm
>      giving you is from many long years of experience, so please at
>      least give it consideration. If you can learn to deal with these
>      situations and the appropriate skills to employ, you can then in
>      most cases pick your own battleground and alter the timing to
>      confuse and frighten would-be aggressors.
>         If you would indulge me, or if you would like to know what I
>      would have done in your situation (not to say you should have
>      done this, only to show you one possible solution under similar
>      circumstances) then here it is. Two attackers are approaching as
>      you described. I'm walking along with my child. That is the first
>      break point. The attackers demeanor shows them for what they are,
>      and I have a child to worry about, so this situation cannot go
>      further. I would have stepped forward and stopped them from
>      advancing by turning the attack back onto them. Identify the
>      leader and incapacitate him. My own personal choice in a
>      situation of men willing to harm a child is lethal force, so I
>      would immediately drop the leader, withholding nothing. I don't
>      care if he dies. More than likely the second attacker will flee
>      instantly. If he does, I let him. If he doesn't, he is not allowed
>      to attack because I've pushed the attack onto him. He is now on
>      the defensive and has no opportunity to harm my child. If I've
>      got a friend along as you did, then I'd have told him beforehand
>      what to do in a situation like this if it should occur, and he's
>      a block away by now with my kid, removing him from danger. The
>      key is to never show them weakness, because that is what they
>      thrive on, and to never show an instants hesitation or lack of
>      confidence. Never trust people you don't know or assume they
>      will do the 'right thing', or even that they will understand what
>      is happening to be able to lend assistance. That woman you tried
>      to get to call the police for you is a perfect example of what
>      you can, unfortunately, expect in most cases. Sad, but true.
>         I hope you find within yourself whatever it is you need to
>      overcome the feelings you will undoubtedly have over such a
>      traumatic experience. I wish you the best, and hope you take my
>      words in the spirit they are offered. You handled yourself well,
>      and didn't attempt to push yourself beyond your abilities. You'll
>      make a fine father with that attitude. Don't fall for any of the
>      guilt feelings you're going to experience for the next few weeks.
>      You won't be able to help daydreaming about alternate scenarios
>      and how things could have been different. Human nature. However,
>      what you choose to do from this point on will be an important
>      turning point for you, so give it serious thought and weigh all
>      the advice you receive from everyone, my own included, against
>      your heart, your conscience, and your morals. The best path for
>      you will make itself clear given time, just prepare yourself to
>      be able to see it when it does.
>
>
>      Ps. If studying martial arts does become one of your choices,
>      please feel free to email me and I'll gladly help you find which
>      style fits your goals and beliefs. There are pacifistic arts
>      available that do not employ any form of attack, and I recommend
>      those to people who are pacifist by nature.
>
>
>Best regards,
>
>    Kurgan                            mailto:Kurgan@LittleBlueRoom.com
>


_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com



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Subject: Re: An Incident
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From: "Nev Yn" <alien4@wasp.net.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: An Incident
Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 22:47:59 +0800
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Thankyou Kurgan, that was certainly enlightening,and thankyou everyone else,
I feel alot better now. I just got back from the airport, going to the all
night book store to by Rays latest book (its almost midnight here..) .. Just
for some relaxation...

Thanks guys :)


----- Original Message -----
From: <Kurgan@LittleBlueRoom.com>
To: "Nev Yn" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>; <FEISTFANS-L>
Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2001 9:33 PM
Subject: Re: An Incident


> Hello Nev,
>
> NY> Now, I am absoloutly appalled. I didn't even know these people - and the
> NY> behaviour of that woman absoloutly shocked me. Is this what society has
> NY> come to? How can human beings degrade to this level of behaviour?
>
> NY> Anyones views would be apprecited...
>
>      It sickens me to read this, but I've seen it time and time again.
>      I can't help but be reminded, each time I hear such a story, of
>      all the people that demand our society be stripped of its ability
>      to protect itself, not to mention the simple desire to do so. I'm
>      not just referring to guns, but of any ability or desire to stand
>      up against the sick elements of our society and ensure the
>      safety of yourself and your loved ones. I'll share what advice I
>      can, but allow me to qualify it by an anecdote or two first.
>         Years ago I was in a situation similar to yours. I was walking
>      alone and had a carload of drunks pick a fight with me. You must
>      remember that there is no logic in these events, so you cannot
>      deal with them logically. These types of people want something to
>      make the adrenalin flow, and they don't care what it is or who
>      gets hurt. In this case they jumped me and we fought for a short
>      while. I eventually walked across the street to a restaurant (my
>      original destination) and do you know what they did? The girl on
>      the other side of the glass looked up and saw me standing there,
>      covered in blood, my clothing ripped to shreds, and said, "Sorry,
>      we're closed" without missing a beat, and returned to mopping the
>      floor. I was stunned. I walked around the building, only to see
>      the carload coming back (apparently the leader had woken back up
>      from me giving him a nap) and they wanted more. They came at me
>      with baseball bats and fists, and it was an ex-Marine pulling up
>      with and whipping out a shotgun that made them run and saved the
>      day. I'll never forget that grisly voice saying, "I don't like an
>      unfair fight...".
>         Now, people are going to tell you lots of different things as
>      time goes by. Your going to hear "you were right to run" or "You
>      should have killed the bastards" among other comments. I'm not
>      going to debate who is right --I have my own opinions-- but what
>      I would like to say is that there is only one thing you actually
>      need right now, and that is the facts and the truth, so you can
>      make your own decisions on how to both proceed with this
>      situation and live your life. The facts are that such people as
>      you encountered tonight exist, and will continue to exist. All
>      the laws and debates in the world won't change that. You've got
>      to decide how you wish to move through your life and how prepared
>      you wish to be as well as what forms of preparedness you can
>      accept.
>         Some of the solutions will be obvious, and I won't attempt to
>      list or condone them. That's your call. I will, however, tell you
>      what I chose to do, and you can take from it what you will as you
>      see fit. I realized long ago that there is a sick, twisted
>      portion of humanity and that they will probably cross my path, or
>      someone I care about's path, somewhere along the way. Knowing
>      that, I chose the path of defensive studies. Martial arts, etc. It
>      has served me well, but the one thing that many people don't
>      realize is that it is your demeanor and bearing that impart to
>      these predators your potential as a victim. Many times you can
>      avoid such incidents simply by carrying yourself in a more
>      confident manner and showing them their aggression will not be
>      tolerated. I've personally had entire gangs change their mind an
>      walk away simply because I stared them down and said nothing.
>         Another thing to keep in mind, is that you also must know in
>      your heart exactly how far you are willing to go to defend
>      yourself or someone else if the need arises. This, too, shows
>      itself in your countenance. If you know for certain that you will
>      not hesitate to destroy the threat and give in kind, then many
>      such threats will sense that and avoid you like the plague. This
>      is, I should say, a far cry from macho and blustering. Forget the
>      movies. Stay calm and quiet and in control of yourself and the
>      situation. This is how I do things and it works very well. How
>      often do we see examples of the good guy letting the bad guy off
>      easy, only to see the bad guy take advantage of it and come back,
>      usually harming or killing someone dear to the good guy? I've
>      personally removed that notion from my catalogue of responses,
>      and again, that shows, too. Be prepared to do what needs to be
>      done, and do it quickly and efficiently, and that attitude will
>      convey itself to many attackers before they choose to harm you.
>      Keep that attitude for whatever methods of protection you see
>      fit to employ. I'm not just a guy off the street giving you
>      casual advice. I was a professional mercenary, and the advice I'm
>      giving you is from many long years of experience, so please at
>      least give it consideration. If you can learn to deal with these
>      situations and the appropriate skills to employ, you can then in
>      most cases pick your own battleground and alter the timing to
>      confuse and frighten would-be aggressors.
>         If you would indulge me, or if you would like to know what I
>      would have done in your situation (not to say you should have
>      done this, only to show you one possible solution under similar
>      circumstances) then here it is. Two attackers are approaching as
>      you described. I'm walking along with my child. That is the first
>      break point. The attackers demeanor shows them for what they are,
>      and I have a child to worry about, so this situation cannot go
>      further. I would have stepped forward and stopped them from
>      advancing by turning the attack back onto them. Identify the
>      leader and incapacitate him. My own personal choice in a
>      situation of men willing to harm a child is lethal force, so I
>      would immediately drop the leader, withholding nothing. I don't
>      care if he dies. More than likely the second attacker will flee
>      instantly. If he does, I let him. If he doesn't, he is not allowed
>      to attack because I've pushed the attack onto him. He is now on
>      the defensive and has no opportunity to harm my child. If I've
>      got a friend along as you did, then I'd have told him beforehand
>      what to do in a situation like this if it should occur, and he's
>      a block away by now with my kid, removing him from danger. The
>      key is to never show them weakness, because that is what they
>      thrive on, and to never show an instants hesitation or lack of
>      confidence. Never trust people you don't know or assume they
>      will do the 'right thing', or even that they will understand what
>      is happening to be able to lend assistance. That woman you tried
>      to get to call the police for you is a perfect example of what
>      you can, unfortunately, expect in most cases. Sad, but true.
>         I hope you find within yourself whatever it is you need to
>      overcome the feelings you will undoubtedly have over such a
>      traumatic experience. I wish you the best, and hope you take my
>      words in the spirit they are offered. You handled yourself well,
>      and didn't attempt to push yourself beyond your abilities. You'll
>      make a fine father with that attitude. Don't fall for any of the
>      guilt feelings you're going to experience for the next few weeks.
>      You won't be able to help daydreaming about alternate scenarios
>      and how things could have been different. Human nature. However,
>      what you choose to do from this point on will be an important
>      turning point for you, so give it serious thought and weigh all
>      the advice you receive from everyone, my own included, against
>      your heart, your conscience, and your morals. The best path for
>      you will make itself clear given time, just prepare yourself to
>      be able to see it when it does.
>
>
>      Ps. If studying martial arts does become one of your choices,
>      please feel free to email me and I'll gladly help you find which
>      style fits your goals and beliefs. There are pacifistic arts
>      available that do not employ any form of attack, and I recommend
>      those to people who are pacifist by nature.
>
>
> Best regards,
>
>    Kurgan                            mailto:Kurgan@LittleBlueRoom.com
>



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Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 10:05:10 -0800
Subject: Re: An Incident
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Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 10:05:10 -0800
Subject: Re: An Incident
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Wednesday, December 19, 2001, at 03:58 AM, Nev Yn wrote:

> Hello List, hello Ray..
>  
> Well Im bored... and I just need to get this written out, and thought 
> you guys would listen... Im a 18 yr old male... and I have 7mnth old 
> baby... his mom moved interstate to study teaching and design... Like 
> every afternoon at 4:30PM, My friend, my baby, my dogs and I went for a 
> walk to the park... there were two kids there on their skateboards, and 
> a mom and her 3 kids at the swings... We walked into the park and were 
> walking across to the lake when these two guys come up and knock my 
> baby's pram over... he got cut... and started beating the absoloute 
> snot out of me and my friend. Now, I am a human being of values, and so 
> is my friend, and we refuse to fight back - I had to fight in defense 
> of my baby,and I now have a bruised jaw and cracked lips. We ran across 
> to a house, I let the dogs off and they ran home (thankgod) and we 
> knocked on the door.......rang the door bell, even, and this bi*ch of a 
> woman answers screaming "THANKYOU VEYR MUCH FOR WAKING UP MY BABY" 
> whilst my baby is screaming - her baby was only about 2mnths i guess... 
> but so what?we asked her if she could ring the police for us... she 
> told us to rack off, and these guys were standing there on the driveway 
> threating us... so we left...and they followed... and they chased my 
> friend home... he got home, then they came and told me if we didnt come 
> fight them they'd kill my kid and smash up my home...
>  
> Now, I am absoloutly appalled. I didn't even know these people - and 
> the behaviour of that woman absoloutly shocked me. Is this what society 
> has come to? How can human beings degrade to this level of behaviour?
>  
> Anyones views would be apprecited...
>  
>  
>
>
Appalling.

Was this a hate crime?  Random violence by a couple of drunks?  What 
could possibly motivate such actions?

The woman who wouldn't call the police on your behalf is a monster.

I hope you finally did report this all to the police.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.

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Subject: OT Re: An Incident
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From: "James Barker" <heechee@softhome.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: OT Re: An Incident
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 12:23:48 +1100
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----- Original Message -----
From: <Kurgan@LittleBlueRoom.com>
To: "Nev Yn (FEISTFANS-L)" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2001 12:33 AM
Subject: Re: An Incident

*Snip Kurgan's excellent message*

Firstly, to Nev Yn: this is utterly sickening, but from what you've said,
you did nothing wrong. That this kind of thing can happen in today's
"civilised" society, and those responsible can quite possibly get away
scot-free, is simply wrong.
    Where abouts in Australia were you (if you were at all)? I assume you're
an Aussie because of your addresses .au ending...

My main message: No disrespect to martial arts or any who practice them, but
I don't believe they are the be-all and end-all in a fight, except in
exceptional circumstances. I say this simply because I've seen people who
practise them freeze when threatened, or revert to the simple untrained
punching and kicking movements that come naturally to everyone.
    One example: last year, myself and two friends were walking home from a
movie (Gladiator, somewhat ironically) at about 10:30, and decided to stop
in and get some fast food. While we were in there, we caught the eye of a
few punks, who followed us when we left, and proceeded to beat the living
shit out of us while muttering something about smiling. It's probably worth
mentioning that my friends and I were around 15, while these punks would
have been 18 or 19. My point is that one of my friends had recently earned
his black belt in tae-kwon-do. When we saw these guys coming after us, my
friend (who, at his grading, had gone up against three fully grown black
belts and come out the winner) froze up and stood still while a punk swung a
haymaker (which he could easily have blocked) into his face. The end result
was that he got utterly hammered, while my other friend and I were at least
able to get a good punch or two in.
    Obviously this is just one example, but I've seen it happen again and
again, at parties, skate parks, etc., etc. What I'm trying to say is that
while martial arts may be useful in some situations, it can be a detriment
in others.

Cheers,
James



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From: Valheru22@aol.com
Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 21:10:13 EST
Subject: Hey Ray I have a question!
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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  I saw Lord of the rings today and it was spectacular it was so amazing! I 
never noticed though one of the names is similar to your books well at least 
one name "Gondor" I believe it was, and then your, "Krondor" I was wondering 
did you get any inspiration from LOTR when you wrote your book?

-Chance Minter

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Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 18:48:05 -0800
Subject: Re: Hey Ray I have a question!
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
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On Wednesday, December 19, 2001, at 06:10 PM, Valheru22@aol.com wrote:

> I saw Lord of the rings today and it was spectacular it was so amazing! 
> I never noticed though one of the names is similar to your books well 
> at least one name "Gondor" I believe it was, and then your, "Krondor" I 
> was wondering did you get any inspiration from LOTR when you wrote your 
> book?
>
> -Chance Minter
>
>
>

Krondor was named by Steve Abrams, and I never thought to ask him.

"Gondor" is a city in Ethiopia.  JRRT liked it when he saw it on a map,  
once, and decided to use it.

There are some very "exotic" sounding names out there, lately from 
Afghanistan, i.e. Spin Boldock, Tora Bora, Masaf-e Sarief, etc.  Sound 
like they come straight out of R.E. Howard's Conan tales, don't they?

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.

1,,
Summary-line: 20-Dec  Kurgan@LittleBlueRoom.com [144] #Re: OT Re: An Incident
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*** EOOH ***
From: Kurgan@LittleBlueRoom.com
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 04:15:10 -0600
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
To: James Barker <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT Re: An Incident
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Hello James,

JB> My main message: No disrespect to martial arts or any who practice them, but
JB> I don't believe they are the be-all and end-all in a fight...I've seen people who
JB> practise them freeze when threatened, or revert to the simple untrained
JB> punching and kicking movements that come naturally to everyone.


   Indeed. I agree completely, and have seen that happen myself. My
   intent was not to impart that Nev should go learn the arts so that
   he could trash anyone that looked at him funny. No one should ever
   go into it with that attitude, and any teacher worth his salt will
   spot those kind of students in a heartbeat and either remove them
   from the class or, preferably, give them special attention and
   teach them the error in their thinking. (Recall the old Tae Kwon
   Leap parody sketch, "Master, I would like to learn to kick some
   ass, too..." *boot to the head*)
      What I was trying to impart is that many situations can be
   avoided by simply having the knowledge. The manner and bearing of
   the practitioner imparts a sense of calm, controlled serenity. 9
   out of 10 potential attackers will avoid a person exhibiting these
   traits. As silly as this may sound, there is a direct analogy
   between predatory animals smelling fear and attacking and human
   predators attacking other humans. Whatever it is that creates a
   human monster such as Nev described, it also imparted to them
   certain rules to follow that they themselves are typically unaware
   of. One of those being that a frightened, panicky victim is the
   most desirable. Indeed, those kind will often instigate their own
   attack simply by their manners and attitude. Sad, but true.
      Allow me to give one final anecdote to illustrate my original
   intended message. Of all the conflicts in my life, and I could
   write volumes, this one is my proudest moment. Not proud in the
   traditional sense. No one is hurt in this one. I mean I was
   extremely proud because I had finally, with this incident, lived up
   to all of my own beliefs and training, and this was the first time
   I actually saw to total value of what I had learned, as well as
   finally seeing that many of the things I was taught (the ones you
   hear but think are merely metaphors or propaganda) were indeed real
   and valid.
      I was with friends years ago, and we were standing around out in
   back of a building which was the rally point for a scavenger hunt
   that my friends' school was hosting. I was a little older than
   everyone and out of school, but was enjoying myself immensely by
   watching them run around like madmen on their hunt. A group of us
   were standing near the curb of the street that ran behind the
   building, and there was a line of cars along it in front of us. One
   of the cars was an expensive Jaguar. As we stood there talking and
   laughing, the owner of the Jag (a typical "jock" who'd probably
   been a senior for three or four years running) walked up with his
   entourage of about eight or nine other jocks. He yells at everyone
   to 'get away from his ride' (no one was actually touching it), and
   of course, my friends all scatter to the winds in fear. I
   remained where I was and said nothing. Tough guy sees this and
   walks over to me, his gang in tow, plants himself directly in
   front of me, and says, "I said get away from my ride, man!". I
   glanced over at his car then back at him and said quietly, "I'm not
   touching your...'ride'". I was intentionally testing the waters,
   just so you know, and had specifically chosen to speak clearly and
   calmly, showing no emotion (except a little disdain slipped into my
   response since the guy was annoying me a little).
      He stood there and looked at me for a second, then threw both
   his fists forward and hit me square in the chest, clearly wanting
   to knock me down. I leaned backwards with the impact, but I didn't
   lose my footing. I also dropped my drink I'd been holding, which,
   oddly enough, landed standing up and didn't spill. What I did not
   do was hit him back. This was important for what I was hoping to
   achieve. The moment he hit me, all of his fellow jocks whipped off
   their t-shirts and surrounded me. I just stood there and stared the
   leader in the eyes, keeping a neutral expression. A minute or so
   passed with no action, and suddenly he breaks into a big cheesy
   smile and starts saying, "Ah, it's cool, man, it's cool..." and
   throws an arm around my shoulder like we were old friends. I looked
   directly at his arm and he took it off and picked up my drink and
   handed it to me with a nervous smile. All the other jocks were
   looking around with stunned and confused faces. Knowing I'd won
   without lifting a finger in anger I then casually walked over to my
   other friends who were standing in the street watching everything
   and grinning like idiots. I never saw what happened with the jocks,
   but I don't recall them hanging around after that.
      This is one of my fondest moments, because, as I said, I'd
   finally lived up to my beliefs and practice. I'd finally put my
   money where my mouth was and learned a priceless lesson that night.
   I'd won a fight with an entire gang of heavily-muscled men without
   lifting a finger, but by controlling the situation. As you can see,
   violence is not always a solution, but understanding the reasons and
   motives behind those that seek it, and how to remove their confidence
   and motivation, can save someone's life. It is that principle that
   I wish to impart, and highly recommend anyone living in fear learn
   --not just combat.





Best regards,

   Kurgan                            mailto:Kurgan@LittleBlueRoom.com



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Summary-line: 20-Dec    blackdragon@gamebox.net  [65] #Re: Hey Ray I have a question!
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Black Dragon" <blackdragon@gamebox.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Hey Ray I have a question!
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 09:54:33 +0600
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> There are some very "exotic" sounding names out there, lately from
> Afghanistan, i.e. Spin Boldock, Tora Bora, Masaf-e Sarief, etc.  Sound
> like they come straight out of R.E. Howard's Conan tales, don't they?

It's Mazar - e - Sharif (means : The Holy Tomb of the Revered). It's named
such because there lies the tomb of Ali, the fourth and youngest Caliph of
Islam. It's a very important place for Shi'ite muslims. They revere Ali much
more than the Sunni muslims do. Unfortunately, due to the conditions of
Afghanistan, not many muslims are being able to visit that place. If
Afghanistan was in peace, they could have earned millions from the tourists
visiting that place.



1,,
Summary-line: 19-Dec       res0b95g@verizon.net  [60] #OT: Incredible!!!!!
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From: "Jason Martin" <res0b95g@verizon.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: OT: Incredible!!!!!
Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 23:57:21 -0800
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Just got back from seeing LoTR and I can not really say how wonderful this
movie was.  Easily one of the best Epic movies I have seen in a while.  I
shudder to think what the next two are going to be like.  I always felt book
1 was the slowest of the triliogy, and if the next two movies follow the
same path as the first, then we will be lucky in seeing a great Movie
Triology!  If you have any doubts, put them aside and go see this movie!!  I
will most likely see this movie again in a week or so.  The showing I went
to tonight sold out, but luckily I bought tickets for it 2 weeks ago.  Sorry
I've rambled enough..

Jason
"Too much knowlege never makes for simple decisions."
                           Ghanima- Children of Dune



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Summary-line: 19-Dec     karlsimonian@yahoo.com [141] #Re: An Incident/
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From: KARL SIMONIAN <karlsimonian@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: An Incident/
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--- Nev Yn <alien4@wasp.net.au> wrote:
> Hello List, hello Ray.. 
> 
> Well Im bored... and I just need to get this written
> out, and thought you guys would listen... Im a 18 yr
> old male... and I have 7mnth old baby... his mom
> moved interstate to study teaching and design...
> Like every afternoon at 4:30PM, My friend, my baby,
> my dogs and I went for a walk to the park... there
> were two kids there on their skateboards, and a mom
> and her 3 kids at the swings... We walked into the
> park and were walking across to the lake when these
> two guys come up and knock my baby's pram over... he
> got cut... and started beating the absoloute snot
> out of me and my friend. Now, I am a human being of
> values, and so is my friend, and we refuse to fight
> back - I had to fight in defense of my baby,and I
> now have a bruised jaw and cracked lips. We ran
> across to a house, I let the dogs off and they ran
> home (thankgod) and we knocked on the
> door.......rang the door bell, even, and this bi*ch
> of a woman answers screaming "THANKYOU VEYR MUCH FOR
> WAKING UP MY BABY" whilst my baby is screaming - her
> baby was only about 2mnths i guess... but so what?we
> asked her if she could ring the police for us... she
> told us to rack off, and these guys were standing
> there on the driveway threating us... so we
> left...and they followed... and they chased my
> friend home... he got home, then they came and told
> me if we didnt come fight them they'd kill my kid
> and smash up my home... 
> 
> Now, I am absoloutly appalled. I didn't even know
> these people - and the behaviour of that woman
> absoloutly shocked me. Is this what society has come
> to? How can human beings degrade to this level of
> behaviour?
> 
> Anyones views would be apprecited...
> 
> 
> 
Well, you asked for "views"...

First off, this is a terrible story, shocking really.
I am a father of three and I can't imagine someone
hurting one of my kids.
But, well how can I put this?
I don't mean to be cruel, and this is not being
written in that vein, but your story is hard to
believe.
I'm not flaming you, just pointing out some problems
with your story. 
Why would two guys be willing to beat the crap out of
you and purposely knock over your baby in a public
park, but they won't touch you as long as you are
standing in front of a house begging for help?
(You said they stood in the driveway threatening you,
why not just continue the ass-kicking?)
How is it that they are waiting for you on the
driveway and somehow you both made it home?
Did they follow you at a close distance?
Why would they follow you both home, then threaten to
kill you and your child unless you "come out and fight
them" AFTER they let you get home?
Surely a man carrying a 7month old cannot out run two
men without babies in their arms.
Another thing that bothers me is when you talk about
being a "human being with values" and you ask how
others can be so callous, yet you thank God that your
DOGS got home safely, with barely a mention of your
child's condition.
Why not keep pounding on this woman's door, eventually
she would have called the police just to get rid of
you?
Why didn't your friend call the police after they
chased hime home?  
Seems to me if he called the police, they would have
come to your home in time to arrest these villians.
I just think there are way too many holes in your
story, and maybe that's because you left out details
that would help me believe this actually happened the
way you say it did.

None of this really has any place on this list, but
like I said, you asked, and I just don't believe the
story with the details you have provided.


Karl  






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References: <FE3A95BA-F4F3-11D5-B7F9-003065A8A644@bittersea.com>
Subject: Re: Hey Ray I have a question!
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 15:15:53 +1100
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Barker" <heechee@softhome.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Hey Ray I have a question!
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 15:15:53 +1100
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----- Original Message -----
>From: Raymond Feist
>To: FEISTFANS-L
>Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2001 1:48 PM
>Subject: Re: Hey Ray I have a question!
>
>There are some very "exotic" sounding names out there, lately from
>Afghanistan, i.e. Spin Boldock, Tora Bora, Masaf-e Sarief, etc. Sound like
>they come straight out of R.E. Howard's Conan tales, don't they?

One of my favourite tactics for "creating" place names is to go trawling
through my maps of India and Nepal, among others...

So many exotic-sounding small villages, so few names needed...

Cheers,
James



1,,
Summary-line: 20-Dec          dante@kingcon.com  [66] #Re: OT: Incredible!!!!!
X-Coding-System: undecided-unix
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Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 09:29:17 -0500
Subject: Re: OT: Incredible!!!!!
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From: Bob Montgomery <dante@kingcon.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
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Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 09:29:17 -0500
Subject: Re: OT: Incredible!!!!!
From: Bob Montgomery <dante@kingcon.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Going to see it tonight, and very excited. I always found the third book the
slowest and hardest to finish, but I still love 'em all :)

Glad to hear it's as good I figured!

> From: "Jason Martin" <res0b95g@verizon.net>
> Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 23:57:21 -0800
> To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
> Subject: OT: Incredible!!!!!
> 
> Just got back from seeing LoTR and I can not really say how wonderful this
> movie was.  Easily one of the best Epic movies I have seen in a while.  I
> shudder to think what the next two are going to be like.  I always felt book
> 1 was the slowest of the triliogy, and if the next two movies follow the
> same path as the first, then we will be lucky in seeing a great Movie
> Triology!  If you have any doubts, put them aside and go see this movie!!  I
> will most likely see this movie again in a week or so.  The showing I went
> to tonight sold out, but luckily I bought tickets for it 2 weeks ago.  Sorry
> I've rambled enough..
> 
> Jason
> "Too much knowlege never makes for simple decisions."
> Ghanima- Children of Dune
> 



1,,
Summary-line: 20-Dec         alien4@wasp.net.au [176] #Re: An Incident/
X-Coding-System: undecided-unix
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From: "Nev Yn" <alien4@wasp.net.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
References: <20011220070114.13249.qmail@web20205.mail.yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: An Incident/
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 23:41:43 +0800
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Nev Yn" <alien4@wasp.net.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: An Incident/
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 23:41:43 +0800
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Karl :

 - How does one think clearly when being assaulted?
 - Im glad the dogs got home because they are $6,000 Alaskan Malamute
breeders
 - They wouldnt come upto the womans house because her husband was standing
there and he looked MEAN
- When we left my friend RAN off and they CHASED HIM and as I was walking
home WITH MY BABY IN MY ARMS that was when they said it, and LET me go home
to GET MY FRIEND, which is when we called the police and they came and
collected them -- they were only a couple of 15/16 year olds... but I refuse
to fight back, and I told you my baby got a cut on him, but he was strapped
into his pram and safe, more or less,,, and I found out today they attacked
us because they have an old grudge against my friend FROM HIGH SCHOOL WHERE
I HAVENT BEEN FOR THREE YEARS!

Anyways its over now and it seems all settled...

Have a good day

----- Original Message -----
From: "KARL SIMONIAN" <karlsimonian@yahoo.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2001 3:01 PM
Subject: Re: An Incident/


>
> --- Nev Yn <alien4@wasp.net.au> wrote:
> > Hello List, hello Ray..
> >
> > Well Im bored... and I just need to get this written
> > out, and thought you guys would listen... Im a 18 yr
> > old male... and I have 7mnth old baby... his mom
> > moved interstate to study teaching and design...
> > Like every afternoon at 4:30PM, My friend, my baby,
> > my dogs and I went for a walk to the park... there
> > were two kids there on their skateboards, and a mom
> > and her 3 kids at the swings... We walked into the
> > park and were walking across to the lake when these
> > two guys come up and knock my baby's pram over... he
> > got cut... and started beating the absoloute snot
> > out of me and my friend. Now, I am a human being of
> > values, and so is my friend, and we refuse to fight
> > back - I had to fight in defense of my baby,and I
> > now have a bruised jaw and cracked lips. We ran
> > across to a house, I let the dogs off and they ran
> > home (thankgod) and we knocked on the
> > door.......rang the door bell, even, and this bi*ch
> > of a woman answers screaming "THANKYOU VEYR MUCH FOR
> > WAKING UP MY BABY" whilst my baby is screaming - her
> > baby was only about 2mnths i guess... but so what?we
> > asked her if she could ring the police for us... she
> > told us to rack off, and these guys were standing
> > there on the driveway threating us... so we
> > left...and they followed... and they chased my
> > friend home... he got home, then they came and told
> > me if we didnt come fight them they'd kill my kid
> > and smash up my home...
> >
> > Now, I am absoloutly appalled. I didn't even know
> > these people - and the behaviour of that woman
> > absoloutly shocked me. Is this what society has come
> > to? How can human beings degrade to this level of
> > behaviour?
> >
> > Anyones views would be apprecited...
> >
> >
> >
> Well, you asked for "views"...
>
> First off, this is a terrible story, shocking really.
> I am a father of three and I can't imagine someone
> hurting one of my kids.
> But, well how can I put this?
> I don't mean to be cruel, and this is not being
> written in that vein, but your story is hard to
> believe.
> I'm not flaming you, just pointing out some problems
> with your story.
> Why would two guys be willing to beat the crap out of
> you and purposely knock over your baby in a public
> park, but they won't touch you as long as you are
> standing in front of a house begging for help?
> (You said they stood in the driveway threatening you,
> why not just continue the ass-kicking?)
> How is it that they are waiting for you on the
> driveway and somehow you both made it home?
> Did they follow you at a close distance?
> Why would they follow you both home, then threaten to
> kill you and your child unless you "come out and fight
> them" AFTER they let you get home?
> Surely a man carrying a 7month old cannot out run two
> men without babies in their arms.
> Another thing that bothers me is when you talk about
> being a "human being with values" and you ask how
> others can be so callous, yet you thank God that your
> DOGS got home safely, with barely a mention of your
> child's condition.
> Why not keep pounding on this woman's door, eventually
> she would have called the police just to get rid of
> you?
> Why didn't your friend call the police after they
> chased hime home?
> Seems to me if he called the police, they would have
> come to your home in time to arrest these villians.
> I just think there are way too many holes in your
> story, and maybe that's because you left out details
> that would help me believe this actually happened the
> way you say it did.
>
> None of this really has any place on this list, but
> like I said, you asked, and I just don't believe the
> story with the details you have provided.
>
>
> Karl
>
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of
> your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com
> or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com
>



1,,
Summary-line: 20-Dec         alien4@wasp.net.au [158] #Re: An Incident/
X-Coding-System: undecided-unix
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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
References: <20011220070114.13249.qmail@web20205.mail.yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: An Incident/
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 23:49:54 +0800
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Nev Yn" <alien4@wasp.net.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: An Incident/
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 23:49:54 +0800
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Remember what Kurgan said... "these people are not thinking logically,
therefore the problem cannot be solved logically"
----- Original Message -----
From: "KARL SIMONIAN" <karlsimonian@yahoo.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2001 3:01 PM
Subject: Re: An Incident/


>
> --- Nev Yn <alien4@wasp.net.au> wrote:
> > Hello List, hello Ray..
> >
> > Well Im bored... and I just need to get this written
> > out, and thought you guys would listen... Im a 18 yr
> > old male... and I have 7mnth old baby... his mom
> > moved interstate to study teaching and design...
> > Like every afternoon at 4:30PM, My friend, my baby,
> > my dogs and I went for a walk to the park... there
> > were two kids there on their skateboards, and a mom
> > and her 3 kids at the swings... We walked into the
> > park and were walking across to the lake when these
> > two guys come up and knock my baby's pram over... he
> > got cut... and started beating the absoloute snot
> > out of me and my friend. Now, I am a human being of
> > values, and so is my friend, and we refuse to fight
> > back - I had to fight in defense of my baby,and I
> > now have a bruised jaw and cracked lips. We ran
> > across to a house, I let the dogs off and they ran
> > home (thankgod) and we knocked on the
> > door.......rang the door bell, even, and this bi*ch
> > of a woman answers screaming "THANKYOU VEYR MUCH FOR
> > WAKING UP MY BABY" whilst my baby is screaming - her
> > baby was only about 2mnths i guess... but so what?we
> > asked her if she could ring the police for us... she
> > told us to rack off, and these guys were standing
> > there on the driveway threating us... so we
> > left...and they followed... and they chased my
> > friend home... he got home, then they came and told
> > me if we didnt come fight them they'd kill my kid
> > and smash up my home...
> >
> > Now, I am absoloutly appalled. I didn't even know
> > these people - and the behaviour of that woman
> > absoloutly shocked me. Is this what society has come
> > to? How can human beings degrade to this level of
> > behaviour?
> >
> > Anyones views would be apprecited...
> >
> >
> >
> Well, you asked for "views"...
>
> First off, this is a terrible story, shocking really.
> I am a father of three and I can't imagine someone
> hurting one of my kids.
> But, well how can I put this?
> I don't mean to be cruel, and this is not being
> written in that vein, but your story is hard to
> believe.
> I'm not flaming you, just pointing out some problems
> with your story.
> Why would two guys be willing to beat the crap out of
> you and purposely knock over your baby in a public
> park, but they won't touch you as long as you are
> standing in front of a house begging for help?
> (You said they stood in the driveway threatening you,
> why not just continue the ass-kicking?)
> How is it that they are waiting for you on the
> driveway and somehow you both made it home?
> Did they follow you at a close distance?
> Why would they follow you both home, then threaten to
> kill you and your child unless you "come out and fight
> them" AFTER they let you get home?
> Surely a man carrying a 7month old cannot out run two
> men without babies in their arms.
> Another thing that bothers me is when you talk about
> being a "human being with values" and you ask how
> others can be so callous, yet you thank God that your
> DOGS got home safely, with barely a mention of your
> child's condition.
> Why not keep pounding on this woman's door, eventually
> she would have called the police just to get rid of
> you?
> Why didn't your friend call the police after they
> chased hime home?
> Seems to me if he called the police, they would have
> come to your home in time to arrest these villians.
> I just think there are way too many holes in your
> story, and maybe that's because you left out details
> that would help me believe this actually happened the
> way you say it did.
>
> None of this really has any place on this list, but
> like I said, you asked, and I just don't believe the
> story with the details you have provided.
>
>
> Karl
>
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of
> your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com
> or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com
>



1, edited,,
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Subject: Questions for Mr. Feist
Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 00:01:44 +0800
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From: "Nev Yn" <alien4@wasp.net.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Questions for Mr. Feist
Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 00:01:44 +0800
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Dear,

When you first had "Magician" published those 23 odd years ago, were
the publishers skeptical that it would sell? And that moment when you
signed the contract was it a great moment for you.. Ill try to explain
myself clearer... E.G .. Celine Dion... when she first started singing
and would win an award she would get up and cry and give a great long
speech,, now she simply gets up and takes the award, with her body
language showing "oh great another one".  Is it like that now? Do the
publishers simply now publish your work , or does it go through
editing and reviewing before hand.

Im just curious, because a friend of mine has just got her first novel
published in Europe - and has signed a co-authoring contract with
another local author.  May I ask what co-authoring is like, as an
experience? Do you sit with your co-author and go through all the
notes and sketches, etc, you and your team has done to come up with
the story, and the characters? When you create a character do you
write out their story and keep it for reference? I remember Robert
Jordan saying in an interview "I have a file for every character I
have created, no matter how insignificant or flat".

How many people become involved in the creation of a novel? My friend
created her novel in three years, without any assitance, and she is a
PhD Philosophy and Literature in Germany. I find it fascinating, if
its like a film, where thousands and thousands of people work to
create the set, the characters, etc..  is this how it works? Do people
create things for you to begin/continue a story with? Or are they
simply friends or other authors that you say "I have an idea, wanna
come 'round and lend me a hand?".

I bought Tear of the Gods today for $10 in K-MART , and then went to
go buy Betryal and Assassins in a book story -- they wanted $40 each
for the paperbacks! Do stores make up their own prices for the novels
they sell? Or do the publishers create a "Recommended" price and give
them a limit as to how much they can lower or raise the price?

I could go on, But I shant...


Good day!

1,,
Summary-line: 20-Dec     karlsimonian@yahoo.com  [83] #Re: An Incident/
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From: KARL SIMONIAN <karlsimonian@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: An Incident/
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Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 09:55:03 -0800 (PST)
From: KARL SIMONIAN <karlsimonian@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: An Incident/
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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--- Nev Yn <alien4@wasp.net.au> wrote:
> Karl :
> 
>  - How does one think clearly when being assaulted?
>  - Im glad the dogs got home because they are $6,000
> Alaskan Malamute
> breeders
>  - They wouldnt come upto the womans house because
> her husband was standing
> there and he looked MEAN
> - When we left my friend RAN off and they CHASED HIM
> and as I was walking
> home WITH MY BABY IN MY ARMS that was when they said
> it, and LET me go home
> to GET MY FRIEND, which is when we called the police
> and they came and
> collected them -- they were only a couple of 15/16
> year olds... but I refuse
> to fight back, and I told you my baby got a cut on
> him, but he was strapped
> into his pram and safe, more or less,,, and I found
> out today they attacked
> us because they have an old grudge against my friend
> FROM HIGH SCHOOL WHERE
> I HAVENT BEEN FOR THREE YEARS!
> 
> Anyways its over now and it seems all settled...
> 
> Have a good day
> 
Well, those details really do make the story more
clear.
I am glad these punks were arrested, but I still don't
get the part about not fighting back.
But, that is really none of my business.

Detective Karl

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
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*** EOOH ***
From: JEEPMONSTER69@aol.com
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 15:37:00 EST
Subject: Re: An Incident
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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In a message dated 12/19/2001 7:15:13 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
alien4@wasp.net.au writes:


> Hello List, hello Ray.. 
>  
> Well Im bored... and I just need to get this written out, and thought you 
> guys would listen... Im a 18 yr old male... and I have 7mnth old baby... 
> his mom moved interstate to study teaching and design... Like every 
> afternoon at 4:30PM, My friend, my baby, my dogs and I went for a walk to 
> the park... there were two kids there on their skateboards, and a mom and 
> her 3 kids at the swings... We walked into the park and were walking across 
> to the lake when these two guys come up and knock my baby's pram over... he 
> got cut... and started beating the absoloute snot out of me and my friend. 
> Now, I am a human being of values, and so is my friend, and we refuse to 
> fight back - I had to fight in defense of my baby,and I now have a bruised 
> jaw and cracked lips. We ran across to a house, I let the dogs off and they 
> ran home (thankgod) and we knocked on the door.......rang the door bell, 
> even, and this bi*ch of a woman answers screaming "THANKYOU VEYR MUCH FOR 
> WAKING UP MY BABY" whilst my baby is screaming - her baby was only about 
> 2mnths i guess... but so what?we asked her if she could ring the police for 
> us... she told us to rack off, and these guys were standing there on the 
> driveway threating us... so we left...and they followed... and they chased 
> my friend home... he got home, then they came and told me if we didnt come 
> fight them they'd kill my kid and smash up my home... 
>  
> Now, I am absoloutly appalled. I didn't even know these people - and the 
> behaviour of that woman absoloutly shocked me. Is this what society has 
> come to? How can human beings degrade to this level of behaviour?
>  
> Anyones views would be apprecited...
> 



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*** EOOH ***
From: JEEPMONSTER69@aol.com
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 15:39:10 EST
Subject: Re: An Incident
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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In a message dated 12/19/2001 7:15:13 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
alien4@wasp.net.au writes:


> Hello List, hello Ray.. 
>  
> Well Im bored... and I just need to get this written out, and thought you 
> guys would listen... Im a 18 yr old male... and I have 7mnth old baby... 
> his mom moved interstate to study teaching and design... Like every 
> afternoon at 4:30PM, My friend, my baby, my dogs and I went for a walk to 
> the park... there were two kids there on their skateboards, and a mom and 
> her 3 kids at the swings... We walked into the park and were walking across 
> to the lake when these two guys come up and knock my baby's pram over... he 
> got cut... and started beating the absoloute snot out of me and my friend. 
> Now, I am a human being of values, and so is my friend, and we refuse to 
> fight back - I had to fight in defense of my baby,and I now have a bruised 
> jaw and cracked lips. We ran across to a house, I let the dogs off and they 
> ran home (thankgod) and we knocked on the door.......rang the door bell, 
> even, and this bi*ch of a woman answers screaming "THANKYOU VEYR MUCH FOR 
> WAKING UP MY BABY" whilst my baby is screaming - her baby was only about 
> 2mnths i guess... but so what?we asked her if she could ring the police for 
> us... she told us to rack off, and these guys were standing there on the 
> driveway threating us... so we left...and they followed... and they chased 
> my friend home... he got home, then they came and told me if we didnt come 
> fight them they'd kill my kid and smash up my home... 
>  
> Now, I am absoloutly appalled. I didn't even know these people - and the 
> behaviour of that woman absoloutly shocked me. Is this what society has 
> come to? How can human beings degrade to this level of behaviour?
>  
> Anyones views would be apprecited...
> 

Well, being an 18-year-old male myself, I can relate to how you feel.  my 
reccomendation is to get a pistol or rifle, and alert the police.

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Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 15:41:56 EST
Subject: Re: An Incident
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In a message dated 12/19/2001 9:19:35 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
kiehtan@hotmail.com writes:


> I was reading an article in the "Brockton Enterprise" newspaper yesterday 
> where an individual from the city of Brockton, MA broke into a Taunton, MA 
> woman's apartment, brought here from room to room at gunpoint, and robbed 
> her of I forget how much. Luckily for her, she was unhurt. The criminal is 
> a 
> convicted felon who has been arrested twice before on illegal position of a 
> firearm charges, as well as numerous other offenses. It goes up my "a##" 
> when school children are suspended from school under zero tolerance rules 
> for bringing in a toy, or for pointing a chicken leg at another student and 
> saying "bang," and politicians and famous celebraties pour $$$ into further 
> restricing the rights of those of us who just want to protect ourselves and 
> our loved ones, and scum like this guy go free after numerous offenses only 
> to rob, and sometime kill, again.
> 
> I think Teddy Roosevelt said it best when he said,"Walk softly and carry a 
> big stick."
> 
> Adieu
> 
> Jimmy
> 

Jimmy, Ihave 3 words- God Bless You. Oh, make it four-Amen.

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To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
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Subject: Re: An Incident
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 14:51:12 -0600
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: An Incident
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 14:51:12 -0600
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    I was going to stay out of this, but I want to first point out
that in most cases you are not permitted to carry fire arms
concealed in many places, and in those that I know you are allowed,
generally you must be 18.  Speaking as one whose been in more than
enough fights (I've also been robbed at gun point working as a store
clerk), guns don't solve anything except if you have a problem with
your own life.  If you pull a weapon you increase the chances that
you yourself will be shot tenfold.  I don't know how much different
life is down in OZ, from the inner city USA, but I am always glad I
never carried a gun...because too many other people did.  The last
thing I would recommend around a child is a fire fight.  Besides as
that child grows older the chance of them being injured by your own
gun is extremely high compared with children who grow up without
guns in the home.

-James, 22 (and perhaps a little wiser than he was at 18.)

----- Original Message -----
>
> Well, being an 18-year-old male myself, I can relate to how you feel.
> my reccomendation is to get a pistol or rifle, and alert the police.



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Subject: Re: An Incident
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*** EOOH ***
From: JEEPMONSTER69@aol.com
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 15:59:54 EST
Subject: Re: An Incident
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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In a message dated 12/20/2001 3:55:21 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
jajy@earthlink.net writes:


> 
>     I was going to stay out of this, but I want to first point out
> that in most cases you are not permitted to carry fire arms
> concealed in many places, and in those that I know you are allowed,
> generally you must be 18.  Speaking as one whose been in more than
> enough fights (I've also been robbed at gun point working as a store
> clerk), guns don't solve anything except if you have a problem with
> your own life.  If you pull a weapon you increase the chances that
> you yourself will be shot tenfold.  I don't know how much different
> life is down in OZ, from the inner city USA, but I am always glad I
> never carried a gun...because too many other people did.  The last
> thing I would recommend around a child is a fire fight.  Besides as
> that child grows older the chance of them being injured by your own
> gun is extremely high compared with children who grow up without
> guns in the home.
> 
> -James, 22 (and perhaps a little wiser than he was at 18.)
> 
> 
But, a responsible, law abiding gun owner is worth several police officers- 
ever notice how the police are never there when you need them? (No disrespect 
to my heroes, even before 9/11, the NYPD)

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From: Alex Loke <nerf@alphalink.com.au>
Subject: "Holiday" Stuff
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 19:23:25 +1100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Alex Loke <nerf@alphalink.com.au>
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Hey all,

Just thought I'd butt in to wish everyone a happy holiday season, since I
won't be able to send anything closer to Christmas Day.

Regards,

Alex Loke



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From: "Jason Martin" <res0b95g@verizon.net>
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Subject: OT: Composer/Soundtrack question
Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 00:44:39 -0800
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Jason Martin" <res0b95g@verizon.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: OT: Composer/Soundtrack question
Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 00:44:39 -0800
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Ok, I'm hoping a few of you on the list can help me out with this.  I'm
looking for a new composer and/or soundtrack to get.  What I am after is
something dark and moody.  If anyone has heard the soundtrack to Gattaca or
seen the movie, I'm looking for something similiar to that.  Michael Nyman
who did the Gattaca soundtrack was great.  Any hints or ideas would be great
and please email me OFF the list so we don't clutter the list up.

Thanks,

Jason Martin

PS.  After seeing Harry Potter and LoTR I will be getting both of those
SoundTracks.
"Too much knowlege never makes for simple decisions."
                           Ghanima- Children of Dune



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 10:02:56 +0100 (CET)
From: Michael Holzer <epicmike@yahoo.com>
Subject: OT: My way of sight to Nev's incident
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Hi Nev!

First of all I really have to express how those people
who attacked you and your baby & dog(s) sicken me. I
can hardly express my feelings and thoughts without
using very unsuitable and bad words.

I'm from Austria and 20 (soon 21) years old, and very
luckily i never got into such a situation, which means
i never got a fist in my face, nor did so myself. 

A "known" person of mine once went out of some kind of
club and was beaten up to hospital by 4 or 5 dudes or
so. Luckily he wasn't major injured.

I'm happy that everything now seems more or at least a
bit okay for you again - nobody got very badly hurt or
so, or? I mean, if they have baseball bats(right
pronounced?) and they care about f...... nothing, then
it's (if anyone can say it like this) good that nobody
has been killed or beaten up until unconciousness.

The thing which disturbs me most (despite the attack
itself) is that your baby and dogs don't even know
what's going on. They are just victims, with no clue
what's happening. They think it's a beautiful day like
ever and don't even know that they are in danger. And
to attack someone like them is the worst thing someone
can do... It makes me so sick to hear about attacks to
babies, animals,... It's - not at all understandable
but at least - another thing if someone attacks a
person who is aware of it and can defend himself...

Such people i can't and will never be able to
understand or tolerate. You know, when it comes to
different believes, i tolerate them. Cause my own
opinion is just my personal way of sight. But this is
far too much. 

They should get arrested right away and under
psychiological treatment (clinic or so) until they
really are changed (if ever). That reminds me of
"Clockwork Orange" which was really a very tragical
movie. If you don't know it, just ask me if you're
interested and i'll tell you the story. But i don't
want to bother you with that stuff now. 

You know what's really strange, dumb,... here in
Austria? (don't know how it's in the U.S.) If a girl
gets raped, you see it and help her by beating the
shit out of the raper(rapist?), and he goes to court,
he will for sure get spoken guilty for his crime
(which is punished with way too less years of prison
by the way) but next to this you will have to pay for
the injuries you did to him. No joke! If you see a guy
raping a girl and you beat him to death or less, you
are really in trouble. That's (perhaps) one of the
reasons why the people "delay" to help, cause they are
afraid of getting trouble with the law stuff.

Anyway, this would be stuff for another discussion and
is misplaced here.

For the things you can do in your situation, i think
Kurgan already said some wise words, i cannot tell
anything better than this. I never got into such a
situation as i told before and i live in a country
where crimes like that don't happen that often (at
least in my ähmm (dictionary)...surroundings. So it
wouldn't be senseful if i try to tell some "wise
words". 

I hope that the physical and psychological harms which
you suffered will disappear and heal. I also hope that
you will get to enjoy your life again, without having
bad thoughts about such things happening again - i
mean without afraidness of terror like this.

Perhaps you and your friend who was with you that day
can talk about it and help each other "handle" it.

Good Luck and the very best wishes from Austria,
Mike

P.S: Some questions which would interest me:
Has it been a racist act in some kind?
Were there other people near you of just you and your
friend?
What does the police do against such happenings?
Where did this happen? (which country/state)

=====
I feel a change...back to a better day...hair stands on the back of my neck...in wilderness is the preservation of the world...so seek the wolf in thyself!

__________________________________________________________________

Gesendet von Yahoo! Mail - http://mail.yahoo.de
Ihre E-Mail noch individueller? - http://domains.yahoo.de



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On Fri, 21 December 2001, Alex Loke wrote:

> 
> Hey all,
> 
> Just thought I'd butt in to wish everyone a happy holiday season, since I
> won't be able to send anything closer to Christmas Day.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Alex Loke
 
 Happy Yule! 
  
And Blessed Be
  
Anita

___________________________________________________________________
Join the Space Program: Get FREE E-mail at http://www.space.com.



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Subject: Re: Hey Ray I have a question!
Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2001 22:19:06 -0000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Solaar" <Jody@tesco.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Hey Ray I have a question!
Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2001 22:19:06 -0000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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> There are some very "exotic" sounding names out there, lately from
> Afghanistan, i.e. Spin Boldock, Tora Bora, Masaf-e Sarief, etc.  Sound
> like they come straight out of R.E. Howard's Conan tales, don't they?
>
> Best, R.E.F.

Ahhh... Conan - don't get me started. I'm currently on book 6 of the
original serialisation and I'm finding it a joy to read... if a little
repetitive in some places.

Ishtar and Ishap a little alike too?? ;o)

Solaar
with the thews of iron



1,,
Summary-line: 22-Dec             Jody@tesco.net  [74] #Re: OT Re: An Incident
X-Coding-System: undecided-unix
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From: "Solaar" <Jody@tesco.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
References: <000c01c18884$7fb73be0$08c4becb@shakaar> <7029939741.20011219073357@LittleBlueRoom.com> <001c01c188f4$fb9617c0$5da70ccb@heechee> <10762261309.20011220041510@LittleBlueRoom.com>
Subject: Re: OT Re: An Incident
Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2001 22:23:29 -0000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Solaar" <Jody@tesco.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT Re: An Incident
Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2001 22:23:29 -0000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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>       This is one of my fondest moments, because, as I said, I'd
>    finally lived up to my beliefs and practice. I'd finally put my
>    money where my mouth was and learned a priceless lesson that night.
>    I'd won a fight with an entire gang of heavily-muscled men without
>    lifting a finger, but by controlling the situation. As you can see,
>    violence is not always a solution, but understanding the reasons and
>    motives behind those that seek it, and how to remove their confidence
>    and motivation, can save someone's life. It is that principle that
>    I wish to impart, and highly recommend anyone living in fear learn
>    --not just combat.
>
> Best regards,
>
>    Kurgan                            mailto:Kurgan@LittleBlueRoom.com

Now - this Kurgen guy I like ;o)

You sound like a good guy to have around - especially if things can get
solved without violence.

And you're an ex-mercenary?

Remind me never to pick a fight with you, mate!! ;o)

Solaar
hoping his English humour doesn't offend!!



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References: <000901c189fb$bb9e60c0$65313c04@vz.dsl.genuity.net>
Subject: Re: Composer/Soundtrack question
Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2001 22:33:45 -0000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Solaar" <Jody@tesco.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Composer/Soundtrack question
Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2001 22:33:45 -0000
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> Ok, I'm hoping a few of you on the list can help me out with this.  I'm
> looking for a new composer and/or soundtrack to get.  What I am after is
> something dark and moody.  If anyone has heard the soundtrack to Gattaca or
> seen the movie, I'm looking for something similiar to that.  Michael Nyman
> who did the Gattaca soundtrack was great.  Any hints or ideas would be great
> and please email me OFF the list so we don't clutter the list up.

Just buy Vangelis' Bladerunner soundtrack. I'm of the dance, hip hop, and
thrash-metal generation - but that album is definitely in my top 10.

Solaar
doesn't go out in the rain



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References: <20011221090256.77844.qmail@web14203.mail.yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: My way of sight to Nev's incident
Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2001 22:36:09 -0000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Solaar" <Jody@tesco.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: My way of sight to Nev's incident
Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2001 22:36:09 -0000
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>You know what's really strange, dumb,... here in
>Austria? (don't know how it's in the U.S.) If a girl
>gets raped, you see it and help her by beating the
>shit out of the raper(rapist?), and he goes to court,
>he will for sure get spoken guilty for his crime
>(which is punished with way too less years of prison
>by the way) but next to this you will have to pay for
>the injuries you did to him. No joke! If you see a guy
>raping a girl and you beat him to death or less, you
>are really in trouble. That's (perhaps) one of the
>reasons why the people "delay" to help, cause they are
>afraid of getting trouble with the law stuff.
>
>
>Good Luck and the very best wishes from Austria,
>Mike
================================
Mike - my friend - it's like that everywhere in the world.

Good old political correctness.

Solaar
loves being PC



1,,
Summary-line: 22-Dec            john@crydee.com  [62] #Announcement + Lack of  Crydee.com updates
X-Coding-System: undecided-unix
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Subject: Announcement + Lack of  Crydee.com updates
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2001 00:40:26 +0000
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: John <john@crydee.com>
Subject: Announcement + Lack of  Crydee.com updates
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Well, this is just to let you all know that it is unlikely there will be 
any major updates at Crydee.com in the near future, though I will try 
and include any new book announcements.

On a personal note, some of my friends on the list are already aware 
that I and my wife of 14 years are to part company. So I expect to be 
preoccupied for a few months, until I get things back on track. At 
present we both want to keep it amicable, so we can stay friends, time 
will tell

best
-- 
John

john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.

Raymond E Feist Ring
http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm



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Subject: Re: archive on the web
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Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2001 01:43:12 -0500
From: Steven Isaacson <spi@mac.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: archive on the web
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* Donal K. Fellows (fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk) wrote:
> John <john@crydee.com>
> > Ian Robinson <marmotjuice@hotmail.com> writes
> >> As far as I'm aware that kind of thing is fairly standard practise with
> >> mailing lists...
> > 
> > The cause for concern though is that there is an official archive.
> > I would liked to have known first
> 
> Of *course* there is an official archive.  It's mine (by virtue of
> being oldest and most complete.)  Maybe others look fancier, but bells
> and whistles do not make anything official...

Sorry for draging up a old topic but I just got on break and found time
to read my list email.

I downloaded your archive but they are not in mbox format and as such
they are not easy to transfer over to the web archive. :-) 

I put the list up on my webserver simply for the novality of it, plus
there wasn't a threaded archive avalible on the web. The
server(lists.panaverse.com) is down right now, because of semester break.

-steve
--
Steven Isaacson <spi@mac.com> http://www.csl.mtu.edu/~spisaacs/
I thought I was wrong once, but I was mistaken.



1,,
Summary-line: 22-Dec            john@crydee.com  [55] #Re: Announcement + Lack of  Crydee.com updates
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2001 08:06:16 +0000
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Many thanks to those who have sent their sentiment privately, it is 
appreciated, and will help keep my focus
-- 
John

john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.

Raymond E Feist Ring
http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm



1,,
Summary-line: 22-Dec          benkarl@texas.net  [72] #Re: An Incident
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*** EOOH ***
From: benkarl@texas.net
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2001 15:25:12 -0600
Subject: Re: An Incident
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On 19 Dec 2001, at 10:05, Raymond Feist wrote:

>  What could possibly motivate such actions?

Well, it's been elaborated upon but I could believe it even before 
that.  Some people just like to fight.  I remember seeing a comment 
once where some asshole was talking about how he hated the lack 
of gun control laws in the US.  It seems he wanted more control 
because he likes to pick fights with strangers and he can do that in 
other countries with relative impunity but in the US he has to worry 
about getting shot.  He was quite clear that he just liked to fight and 
didn't care if his target had actually done anything to provoke a fight 
or if he wanted to fight or not.  Beating the crap out of some 
stranger was just entertainment for him.  I guess it just gets the 
adrenaline up as someone else commented.

I'm not trying to talk about gun control, but rather using this anecdote 
as an example of the kind of sick people who are out there.  

The sad thing is that the people who do stuff like this never get 
punished as severely as they should.  The punks described at the 
start of this thread ought to do jail time and the woman should at 
least be fined for refusing to call the police.  
Ben Krauskopf
benkarl@texas.net
"We are Winnie of Pooh.  Resistance is futile.  Your Hunny will be assimilated."
"Silly old Borg"



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From: "Steve Weghorn" <pelvislives@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Happy Holidays
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Hello list members, I'm delurking to say Happy Holidays, and Happy New
Year.  Hope that you all have a great Holiday season.  This time of
year can be difficult and with some of you going through rough times I
figured this might help a little.

                                                          Happy Holidays

                                                          Steve Weghorn



1,,
Summary-line: 22-Dec     jasharkalain@yahoo.com  [87] #Re: An Incident
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From: Joshua Stanton <jasharkalain@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: An Incident
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--- benkarl@texas.net wrote:
>...never get 
> punished as severely as they should.  The punks
> described at the 
> start of this thread ought to do jail time and the
> woman should at 
> least be fined for refusing to call the police.  

But then, how much good would that do?       them off
some more?  Screw them up some more?  And do you think
they haven't done time for stuff like this before?
Don't get me wrong, I think they should be punished
too, I just stop seeing the point after awhile.  Soon
as the goons get out of jail, what's the next thing
they'll do?  It's probably anger or bitterness or
something akin driving them in the fist place, and
chucking them in jail can't help that.  Probably just
makes it worse.  These people obviously need more than
punishment to change them.  Sounds like they need
hope, a reason to be act like they have a heart in
their chests..  (I know I'm sounding like a severe
pacifist, and I don't mean to,) but these people (all
people) need more than a firm hand of punishment to
put them on the "right track."  I would say what "I
think" that is, but that would lead way off topic and
tick a bunch of people off, so I won't bother.

Anyway, those are my thoughts.  Sometimes I get bored
of just watching people talk...  
(Note: I was not trying flaming anyone.)

Hope in Him,
~Joshua~


> Ben Krauskopf
> benkarl@texas.net
> "We are Winnie of Pooh.  Resistance is futile.  Your
> Hunny will be assimilated."
> "Silly old Borg"
> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send your FREE holiday greetings online!
http://greetings.yahoo.com



1,,
Summary-line: 23-Dec      buny@optushome.com.au  [54] #Merry Christmas And Happy New Year To All !!!
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Subject: Merry Christmas And Happy New Year To All !!!
Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2001 22:59:08 +1100
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Selina Takerei" <buny@optushome.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Merry Christmas And Happy New Year To All !!!
Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2001 22:59:08 +1100
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Just like to say that I hope everyone has a very wonderful and satistfying
Christmas, and an even better New Year.

I hope that everyone stays safe and well, andd may the holidays be the best
you have had yet.

Sel.



1,,
Summary-line: 23-Dec          benkarl@texas.net [103] #Re: An Incident
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From: benkarl@texas.net
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On 22 Dec 2001, at 23:24, Joshua Stanton wrote:

> 
> --- benkarl@texas.net wrote:
> >...never get 
> > punished as severely as they should.  The punks
> > described at the 
> > start of this thread ought to do jail time and the
> > woman should at 
> > least be fined for refusing to call the police.  
> 
> But then, how much good would that do?       them off
> some more?  Screw them up some more?  And do you think
> they haven't done time for stuff like this before?

How much good would letting them loose instead do?  I, for one, 
would not like the justice system to be sending the message that 
making threats to kill an infant isn't serious enough for jail time. 

As for doing time before, I doubt it.  The original poster mentioned 
that they were 15/16 and juveniles who do stuff like this often do so 
with the full knowledge that their juvenile status will protect them 
from serious punishment.  

> Don't get me wrong, I think they should be punished
> too, I just stop seeing the point after awhile.  Soon
> as the goons get out of jail, what's the next thing
> they'll do?  It's probably anger or bitterness or
> something akin driving them in the fist place, and
> chucking them in jail can't help that.  Probably just
> makes it worse.  These people obviously need more than
> punishment to change them.  Sounds like they need
> hope, a reason to be act like they have a heart in
> their chests..  (I know I'm sounding like a severe
> pacifist, and I don't mean to,) but these people (all
> people) need more than a firm hand of punishment to
> put them on the "right track."  I would say what "I
> think" that is, but that would lead way off topic and
> tick a bunch of people off, so I won't bother.

If they can be reformed while they're being punished then that's 
great.  I'm just sick of people being given the message by the 
justice system that this sort of thing isn't serious enough to warrant 
serious punishment.  
 
I'm sorry, but I spent a lot of time in my childhood and teen years 
dealing with punks like this who thought they could get away with 
attacking someone just because they wanted to and were all too 
often right when nobody bothered to punish or even "reform" them.  

As for the woman, she must have just been incredibly self centered 
to not pick up the phone and call the police.  I doubt she's going to 
bother to pick it up next time either unless maybe she does it to 
avoid a large fine. 
Ben Krauskopf
benkarl@texas.net
"We are Winnie of Pooh.  Resistance is futile.  Your Hunny will be assimilated."
"Silly old Borg"



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Summary-line: 23-Dec      al.burl@tiscali.co.uk  [60] #Re: Happy Holidays
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Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to Ray and all Feistfans everywhere.

Al

At 22:16 22/12/2001 -0500, Steve Weghorn wrote:
>Hello list members, I'm delurking to say Happy Holidays, and Happy New 
>Year.  Hope that you all have a  great Holiday season.  This time of year 
>can be difficult and with some of you going through rough times I figured 
>this might help a little.
>                                                           Happy Holidays
>                                                                   Steve 
> Weghorn
>
>
>----------
>Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: Click Here



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Summary-line: 23-Dec            john@crydee.com  [54] #Happy Birthday Ray
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Subject: Happy Birthday Ray
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Hi Ray Happy Birthday, for some unknown date in December :)

Were all a year older, and maybe wiser
-- 
John

john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.

Raymond E Feist Ring
http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm



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--

On Fri, 21 Dec 2001 00:01:44  
 Nev Yn wrote:
>Dear,
>
>When you first had "Magician" published those 23 odd years ago, were
>the publishers skeptical that it would sell? And that moment when you
>signed the contract was it a great moment for you.. Ill try to
>explain myself clearer... E.G .. Celine Dion... when she first
>started singing and would win an award she would get up and cry and
>give a great long speech,, now she simply gets up and takes the
>award, with her body language showing "oh great another one".

It's funny that you mention Celine Dion as an exemple :-) She is from
Quebec, Canada, like I am, so I witnessed her beginnings when she was
singing in french at the age of 14. Around here, Celine was known as
very emotionnal, she was often seen crying when singing, or given an
award. I think she's still happy to get those awards, but now she is
older and more mature, and I think she kept her emotions more in
check.


> I remember Robert Jordan saying in an interview "I have a file for
>every character I have created, no matter how insignificant or flat".

Geez... he must have quite a couple drawers full of them :-)

Merry Chrismas,
PJ



--
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In a message dated 12/23/2001 9:01:05 AM Pacific Standard Time, 
john@crydee.com writes:


> Hi Ray Happy Birthday, for some unknown date in December :)
> 

Hey Happy birthday Ray!!!

-Chance

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On Sun, 23 Dec 2001 16:48:47  
 John wrote:
>Hi Ray Happy Birthday, for some unknown date in December :)
>
>Were all a year older, and maybe wiser
>-- 


Since some religions place the son of God's birthday the 25th, Ray's
must be the 25th :-)

j/k, you are a God for all of us fans :-)
Happy birthday
PJ




--
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2001 06:53:15 +1100 (EST)
From: David Smith - NT Interoperability Engineer <David.M.Smith@Sun.COM>
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» Hi Ray Happy Birthday, for some unknown date in December :)

Happy Birthday Ray! May there be many more, and may they all be as good as your 
wildest dreams! :)

» Were all a year older, and maybe wiser

John... is that a lament I hear? ;-) Or just a dropped apostrophe?

» -- 
» John

-- David Smith



1,,
Summary-line: 23-Dec      raymond@bittersea.com  [74] #Re: Happy Birthday Ray
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2001 12:04:11 -0800
Subject: Re: Happy Birthday Ray
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Sunday, December 23, 2001, at 08:48 AM, John wrote:

> Hi Ray Happy Birthday, for some unknown date in December :)
>
> Were all a year older, and maybe wiser
> -- John
>
> john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
> http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.
>
> Raymond E Feist Ring
> http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm
>
>
>
>

If I was wiser, would I be trying to date five different dancers, three 
who work at the same club, and the other two who work at a different 
club (together)?

More fun, yes.  Wiser, no.

Thanks.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



1,,
Summary-line: 23-Dec            john@crydee.com  [75] #Re: Happy Birthday Ray
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 <3B4870E5-F7E0-11D5-8AA6-003065A8A644@bittersea.com>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2001 20:17:10 +0000
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: John <john@crydee.com>
Subject: Re: Happy Birthday Ray
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Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com> writes
>
>If I was wiser, would I be trying to date five different dancers, three 
>who work at the same club, and the other two who work at a different 
>club (together)?
>
>More fun, yes.  Wiser, no.
>
>Thanks.
>
>Best, R.E.F.


But in your past you may have only tried to date a couple of them at the 
same time <G>

What's wrong with a bit of Variety :)

As long as they all don't get together at the same time

Well at least you get Five Birthday Kisses <BG>
-- 
John

john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.

Raymond E Feist Ring
http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm



1,,
Summary-line: 24-Dec             Jody@tesco.net  [52] #Re: Happy Birthday Ray
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Solaar" <Jody@tesco.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Happy Birthday Ray
Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2001 20:55:06 -0000
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And how old is the birthday boy??? (If that's not rude??)

Solaar
the inquisitive



1,,
Summary-line: 24-Dec  s356179@student.uq.edu.au  [64] #Re: OT: Composer/Soundtrack question
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To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT: Composer/Soundtrack question
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Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2001 09:32:31 +1000 (GMT+1000)
From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT: Composer/Soundtrack question
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> Ok, I'm hoping a few of you on the list can help me out with this.  I'm
> looking for a new composer and/or soundtrack to get.  What I am after is
> something dark and moody.  If anyone has heard the soundtrack to Gattaca or
> seen the movie, I'm looking for something similiar to that.  Michael Nyman
> who did the Gattaca soundtrack was great.  Any hints or ideas would be great
> and please email me OFF the list so we don't clutter the list up.
> Thanks,
> Jason Martin
> PS.  After seeing Harry Potter and LoTR I will be getting both of those
> SoundTracks.

Try get the soundtrack for the movie "The Mission", can't remember the
composer, but the movie starred Robert De Niro, came out in the late 80's
I think.

The famous song "falls" comes from it.

Thanks
Darragh
-=-=
www.iamtheporkfireman.com
[Email]: s356179@student.uq.edu.au [ICQ]: 114283262



1,,
Summary-line: 23-Dec      raymond@bittersea.com  [80] #Re: Happy Birthday Ray
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2001 16:34:40 -0800
Subject: Re: Happy Birthday Ray
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Sunday, December 23, 2001, at 12:17 PM, John wrote:

> Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com> writes
>>
>> If I was wiser, would I be trying to date five different dancers, 
>> three who work at the same club, and the other two who work at a 
>> different club (together)?
>>
>> More fun, yes.  Wiser, no.
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> Best, R.E.F.
>
>
> But in your past you may have only tried to date a couple of them at 
> the same time <G>
>
> What's wrong with a bit of Variety :)
>
> As long as they all don't get together at the same time

Actually, there was one night when I had four out of the five sitting at 
the same table . . . and lived to tell the story.

>
> Well at least you get Five Birthday Kisses <BG>
>

Actually . . . not.  Changes are coming, don't ya know.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



1,,
Summary-line: 23-Dec      raymond@bittersea.com  [61] #Re: Happy Birthday Ray
X-Coding-System: undecided-unix
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Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2001 16:35:08 -0800
Subject: Re: Happy Birthday Ray
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2001 16:35:08 -0800
Subject: Re: Happy Birthday Ray
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Monday, December 24, 2001, at 12:55 PM, Solaar wrote:

> And how old is the birthday boy??? (If that's not rude??)
>
> Solaar
> the inquisitive
>
>
>

I'm celebrating the 27th anniversary of my 29th Birthday.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



1,,
Summary-line: 24-Dec            john@crydee.com  [72] #Re: Happy Birthday Ray
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 <04B89A72-F806-11D5-BDC1-003065A8A644@bittersea.com>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2001 00:56:08 +0000
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: John <john@crydee.com>
Subject: Re: Happy Birthday Ray
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Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com> writes
>>
>> As long as they all don't get together at the same time
>
>Actually, there was one night when I had four out of the five sitting 
>at the same table . . . and lived to tell the story.
>

You like living dangerously :)
>>
>> Well at least you get Five Birthday Kisses <BG>
>>
>
>Actually . . . not.  Changes are coming, don't ya know.
>
>Best, R.E.F.

That sounds interesting, but we can wait and see .....
-- 
John

john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.

Raymond E Feist Ring
http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm



1, edited,,
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Subject: Re: Happy Birthday Ray
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2001 12:18:09 +0100
Subject: Re: Happy Birthday Ray
From: "Sylvain Guehl" <fenyxkell@demo.xandmail.com>
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I think I remember Ray was born in 1945 in LA.

Syl


> And how old is the birthday boy??? (If that's not rude??)
> 
> Solaar
> the inquisitive
> 
> 


Fenyx Kell.

1,,
Summary-line: 24-Dec      nerf@alphalink.com.au  [53] #Re: Happy Birthday Ray
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2001 22:52:35 +1100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Alex Loke <nerf@alphalink.com.au>
Subject: Re: Happy Birthday Ray
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At 04:34 PM 23/12/2001 -0800, you wrote:
>Actually, there was one night when I had four out of the five sitting at 
>the same table . . . and lived to tell the story.

It has all the makings of a romantic comedy =)

Happy Birthday Ray!

Alex



1,,
Summary-line: 24-Dec         MPropp@kscable.com  [66] #Re: Happy Birthday Ray
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Subject: Re: Happy Birthday Ray
Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2001 10:13:17 -0600
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----- Original Message ----- 
From: "John" <john@crydee.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2001 10:48 AM
Subject: Happy Birthday Ray


> Hi Ray Happy Birthday, for some unknown date in December :)
> 
> Were all a year older, and maybe wiser
> -- 
> John
> 
> john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
> http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.
> 
> Raymond E Feist Ring
> http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm
> 



1,,
Summary-line: 24-Dec         MPropp@kscable.com  [70] #Re: Happy Birthday Ray
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Subject: Re: Happy Birthday Ray
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Mike and Sarah Propp" <MPropp@kscable.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Happy Birthday Ray
Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2001 10:32:38 -0600
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Whoops, sorry, wanted to click on the shiny button on the left too many
times on that first message ;) .  I am de-lurking to say "Happy Birthday
Ray!".  **resumes lurking mode**

Sarah
----- Original Message -----
From: "John" <john@crydee.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2001 10:48 AM
Subject: Happy Birthday Ray


> Hi Ray Happy Birthday, for some unknown date in December :)
>
> Were all a year older, and maybe wiser
> --
> John
>
> john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
> http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.
>
> Raymond E Feist Ring
> http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm
>



1,,
Summary-line: 24-Dec            ashkar@vrweb.cl  [65] #I am back just in time to say "HAPPY...
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Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2001 13:54:04 -0300
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From: Javier Dussaillant <ashkar@vrweb.cl>
Subject: I am back just in time to say "HAPPY...
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2001 13:54:04 -0300
From: Javier Dussaillant <ashkar@vrweb.cl>
Subject: I am back just in time to say "HAPPY...
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Hi everybody!!

         I am back on the list after almost a year. I never was too much of 
an active member, being more of the lurking type, but perhaps you remember. 
You know, the guy from Chile who was looking for the Riftwar in Spanish? 
well, that's me :)
Well as I said, just in time to say Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to 
all of you!!
and of course Happy Birthday Ray!! My birthday was a little ago (December 
2nd) so I guess I have that little silly pride knowing my favorite author 
is a Sagittarius just like me (you are a Sagittarius, right? :) )

         Bye,


                 Javier Dussaillant G.
                 ashkar@vrweb.cl
                 http://www.vrweb.cl



1,,
Summary-line: 24-Dec      raymond@bittersea.com  [67] #Re: I am back just in time to say "HAPPY...
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Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2001 09:57:44 -0800
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2001 09:57:44 -0800
Subject: Re: I am back just in time to say "HAPPY...
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On Monday, December 24, 2001, at 08:54 AM, Javier Dussaillant wrote:

> Hi everybody!!
>
>         I am back on the list after almost a year. I never was too much 
> of an active member, being more of the lurking type, but perhaps you 
> remember. You know, the guy from Chile who was looking for the Riftwar 
> in Spanish? well, that's me :)
> Well as I said, just in time to say Merry Christmas and Happy New Year 
> to all of you!!
> and of course Happy Birthday Ray!! My birthday was a little ago 
> (December 2nd) so I guess I have that little silly pride knowing my 
> favorite author is a Sagittarius just like me (you are a Sagittarius, 
> right? :) )
>

Capricorn, if you must know. <g>

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2001 19:21:00 +0100
Subject: Re: I am back just in time to say "HAPPY...
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<DIV>> </DIV><DIV>> On Monday, December 24, 2001, at 08:54 AM, Javier Dussaillant wrote:</DIV><DIV>> </DIV><DIV>> > Hi everybody!!</DIV><DIV>> ></DIV><DIV>> >         I am back on the list after almost a year. I never was too much </DIV><DIV>> > of an active member, being more of the lurking type, but perhaps you </DIV><DIV>> > remember. You know, the guy from Chile who was looking for the Riftwar </DIV><DIV>> > in Spanish? well, that's me :)</DIV><DIV>> > Well as I said, just in time to say Merry Christmas and Happy New Year </DIV><DIV>> > to all of you!!</DIV><DIV>> > and of course Happy Birthday Ray!! My birthday was a little ago </DIV><DIV>> > (December 2nd) so I guess I have that little silly pride knowing my </DIV><DIV>> > favorite author is a Sagittarius just like me (you are a Sagittarius, </DIV><DIV>> > right? :) )</DIV><DIV>> ></DIV><DIV>> </DIV><DIV>> Capricorn, if you must know. <g></DIV><DIV>> </DIV><DIV>> Best, R.E.F.</DIV><DIV>> ----</DIV><DIV>> </DIV><DIV>> Nev!
er attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by </DIV><DIV>> stupidity.</DIV><DIV>> </DIV><DIV>> </DIV><div> </div><div> </div><DIV>Fenyx Kell.</DIV><DIV> </DIV>



1,,
Summary-line: 24-Dec       cnadler@colltech.com  [81] #Re: I am back just in time to say "HAPPY...
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From: Cliff Nadler <cnadler@colltech.com>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2001 12:22:05 -0600 (CST)
From: Cliff Nadler <cnadler@colltech.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: I am back just in time to say "HAPPY...
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On Mon, 24 Dec 2001, Raymond Feist wrote:

>
> On Monday, December 24, 2001, at 08:54 AM, Javier Dussaillant wrote:
>
> > Hi everybody!!
> >
> >         I am back on the list after almost a year. I never was too much
> > of an active member, being more of the lurking type, but perhaps you
> > remember. You know, the guy from Chile who was looking for the Riftwar
> > in Spanish? well, that's me :)
> > Well as I said, just in time to say Merry Christmas and Happy New Year
> > to all of you!!
> > and of course Happy Birthday Ray!! My birthday was a little ago
> > (December 2nd) so I guess I have that little silly pride knowing my
> > favorite author is a Sagittarius just like me (you are a Sagittarius,
> > right? :) )
> >
>
> Capricorn, if you must know. <g>
>
> Best, R.E.F.

Well, that limits it to the last third of December (about), just like me !-)

Now, since I just hit 40 this weekend, should I start looking at the Jag
dealers nearby? !-)

Happy Birthdayto a fellow Cap, Ray!

-- 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Cliff Nadler		Collective Technologies, Inc.
cnadler@colltech.com	(512)-263-5500
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
To win, you must treat a pressure situation as an opportunity to succeed,
not an opportunity to fail			Gardner Dickinson



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Summary-line: 24-Dec        gibbyfish@yahoo.com  [70] #Merry Christmas Everyone
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From: "Michael Gibson" <gibbyfish@yahoo.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Merry Christmas Everyone
Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2001 21:03:27 -0000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Michael Gibson" <gibbyfish@yahoo.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Merry Christmas Everyone
Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2001 21:03:27 -0000
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Here's wishing all you FeistFans a Merry Christmas, and a reminder to loosen
those belts before you sit down to lunch ;).

Also, happy anniversary for that birthday Ray!

On a side note (well, an underneath note really) - I'm making a mod for Baldur's
Gate II, and I'm presently at the plot development stage.  It's going to be
quite a major expansion, so I thought I'd make sure it had a good underlying
story, hence I'm open to suggestions.  If you're interested in contributing to
the plot, contact me off-list, and I'll fill you in on what I've got so far.

E-mail:
gibfish@gibbyco.freeserve.co.uk

Mike,
Gibfish of the West

"Better to light a candle than to curse the darkness."
Confucius


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com



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From: "Steve Weghorn" <pelvislives@hotmail.com>
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Subject: question for Mr. Feist
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From: "Steve Weghorn" <pelvislives@hotmail.com>
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Subject: question for Mr. Feist
Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2001 18:05:47 -0500
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First Happy Birthday 

Second I was curious if you could tell me a little bit about Murder in
Lamut, I know that it takes place in the Riftwar but that's about
it. Any thing will be helpful.

                                                                            Thanks 

                                                                         Steve Weghorn



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Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2001 16:25:21 -0800
Subject: Re: question for Mr. Feist
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Monday, December 24, 2001, at 03:05 PM, Steve Weghorn wrote:

>
> First Happy Birthday
>
> Second I was curious if you could tell me a little bit about Murder in 
> Lamut, I know that it takes place in the Riftwar but that's about it. 
> Any thing will be helpful.
>

Let's see.  I've co-written it with Joel Rosenberg.

I just handed it in to Harper.

I think it's going to be considered a major departure for me given 
subject matter and style.

I like it.

It concerns three mercenaries, Pirojil, Durine, and Kethol who are given 
the job of solving a murder in LaMut before all hell breaks lose.  If 
those names sound familiar, they're the three characters from Joel's 
"Not Exactly The Three Musketeers," but rather than space/time warp, we 
cloned them (especially as one of them is dead in Joel's universe).

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.

1,,
Summary-line: 25-Dec       res0b95g@verizon.net  [60] #Merry Christmas all.
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Jason Martin" <res0b95g@verizon.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Merry Christmas all.
Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2001 12:09:43 -0800
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Well it seems no matter how I old I get, I can still not sleep a full night
on the Christmas Eve.  I hope everyone has great Christmas season and a
happy new Year!
  I know my new year is going to be great.  Got a bottle of Sammy Hagar's
Cabo Wabo Tequila for Christmas, and let me just say, that is some  damn
good Tequila.

Merry Christmas,

Jason Martin

"Mas Tequila!"
       Red Vodoo- Sammy Hagar



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On Mon, 24 Dec 2001, Raymond Feist wrote:
>
> Capricorn, if you must know. <g>
>
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
>
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
> stupidity.

Capricorns rock!  Happy Birthday Ray (sometime from 12/22-1/19) and Happy
Birthday Jesus Christ (today!)

Mele Kalikimaka & Hau'oli Makahiki Hou!

...Canaan N. Machida
	...http://www2.hawaii.edu/~kageyama



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YAHBR!

(Yet Another Happy Birthday Ray!)



Ben Krauskopf
benkarl@texas.net
"We are Winnie of Pooh.  Resistance is futile.  Your Hunny will be assimilated."
"Silly old Borg"



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2001 23:11:42 -0800
From: Max Haghighi <maxhag@pacbell.net>
Subject: RE: Happy Birthday Ray
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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John we have to find that date :>

Max

-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of John
>Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2001 8:49 AM
>To: FEISTFANS-L
>Subject: Happy Birthday Ray
>
>Hi Ray Happy Birthday, for some unknown date in December :)
>
>Were all a year older, and maybe wiser
>-- 
>John
>
>john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
>http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.
>
>Raymond E Feist Ring
>http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm
>


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Summary-line: 26-Dec    Alan.Hargreaves@Sun.COM  [65] #[off-topic] Lord of the Rings
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Subject: [off-topic] Lord of the Rings
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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: [off-topic] Lord of the Rings
Cc: Alan.Hargreaves@Sun.COM
From: Alan.Hargreaves@Sun.COM
Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2001 22:02:53 +1100
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I took Ray's advice (See It!) and did so today.

I came out stunned. The only word that really applies is "WOW". I am
going to have to see it again so I can pay a little more attention to
the detail that was provided in the background.


alan.
--
Alan Hargreaves                 Senior Technical Support Specialist
Phone      : +61 2 9844 5379    Technical Support Group
Mobile     : +61 416 207 573    APAC Customer Care Centre
Fax        : +61 2 9418 2143    Sun Microsystems Australia
Call Centre: 1 800 555 786      828 Pacific Highway, Gordon NSW 2072

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Subject: Re: [off-topic] Lord of the Rings
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From: "Nevyn" <alien4@wasp.net.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: [off-topic] Lord of the Rings
Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2001 20:14:47 +0800
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Indeed. I just saw it. It is absoloutly amazing, isnt it.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <Alan.Hargreaves@Sun.COM>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Cc: <Alan.Hargreaves@Sun.COM>
Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2001 7:02 PM
Subject: [off-topic] Lord of the Rings


> I took Ray's advice (See It!) and did so today.
> 
> I came out stunned. The only word that really applies is "WOW". I am
> going to have to see it again so I can pay a little more attention to
> the detail that was provided in the background.
> 
> 
> alan.
> --
> Alan Hargreaves                 Senior Technical Support Specialist
> Phone      : +61 2 9844 5379    Technical Support Group
> Mobile     : +61 416 207 573    APAC Customer Care Centre
> Fax        : +61 2 9418 2143    Sun Microsystems Australia
> Call Centre: 1 800 555 786      828 Pacific Highway, Gordon NSW 2072
> 
>  /"\
>  \ / ASCII Ribbon Campaign
>   X  Against HTML Mail
>  / \ 
> 
> 



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Summary-line: 26-Dec            ashkar@vrweb.cl  [80] #Re: I am back just in time to say "HAPPY...
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Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2001 10:18:30 -0300
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From: Javier Dussaillant <ashkar@vrweb.cl>
Subject: Re: I am back just in time to say "HAPPY...
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Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2001 10:18:30 -0300
From: Javier Dussaillant <ashkar@vrweb.cl>
Subject: Re: I am back just in time to say "HAPPY...
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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At 09:57 AM 12/24/2001 -0800, you wrote:

>On Monday, December 24, 2001, at 08:54 AM, Javier Dussaillant wrote:
>
>>Hi everybody!!
>>
>>         I am back on the list after almost a year. I never was too much 
>> of an active member, being more of the lurking type, but perhaps you 
>> remember. You know, the guy from Chile who was looking for the Riftwar 
>> in Spanish? well, that's me :)
>>Well as I said, just in time to say Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to 
>>all of you!!
>>and of course Happy Birthday Ray!! My birthday was a little ago (December 
>>2nd) so I guess I have that little silly pride knowing my favorite author 
>>is a Sagittarius just like me (you are a Sagittarius, right? :) )
>
>Capricorn, if you must know. <g>

Well, there goes my little silly pride....


>Best, R.E.F.
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
>stupidity.

                 Javier Dussaillant G.
                 ashkar@vrweb.cl
                 Departamento de Desarrollo VRWEB ltda.
                 http://www.vrweb.cl



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Subject: Re: [off-topic] Lord of the Rings
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: [off-topic] Lord of the Rings
Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2001 12:10:44 -0600
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

    Being a Tolkien Fanatic I saw it opening day and was completely
unimpressed with the rendition as a whole from a book to movie stand
point.  The imagery was nice (I was most impressed with the
rendition of Orthanc) but the acting needed a lot of work
particularly with the character of Aragorn.  As I have stated before
I am very intolerant of them screwing with the books like that.  And
they did screw the books up royally.  As a piece of cinema it is
good enough, as a "true to the books" tale, it falls FAR short of
the mark.    It makes me glad no one has picked up Ray's work for a
movie yet, since after Tolkien he is a close second as my favorite
author.

-James (who paid his eight bucks a week in advance for tickets)

----- Original Message -----

> Indeed. I just saw it. It is absoloutly amazing, isnt it.

> > I took Ray's advice (See It!) and did so today.
> >
> > I came out stunned. The only word that really applies is "WOW".
> > I am going to have to see it again so I can pay a little more attention
> > to the detail that was provided in the background.



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Subject: Re: [off-topic] Lord of the Rings
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From: Valheru22@aol.com
Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2001 13:15:49 EST
Subject: Re: [off-topic] Lord of the Rings
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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I have seen it three times soon to be four. It is the best movie of the year! 
Harry Potter better bend over and kiss its ass good bye!
-Chance

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Summary-line: 26-Dec            cries@yifan.net  [59] #Re: [off-topic] Lord of the Rings
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Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2001 11:33:32 -0700
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: [off-topic] Lord of the Rings
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

James Young wrote:
> 
> As a piece of cinema it is good enough, as a "true to the books"
> tale, it falls FAR short of the mark. It makes me glad no one has
> picked up Ray's work for a movie yet, since after Tolkien he is a
> close second as my favorite author.

I feel that the movie stayed quite true to the spirit and themes of the
book, which in the end may be more important than their not changing any
facts or modifying dialogue.

I think that others are quite right when they say that you just cannot
take this book and translate it to the screen word for word.

Craig J. Ries



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From: "Jon Hepplewhite" <jon.hepplewhite@btinternet.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: [off-topic] Lord of the Rings
Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2001 18:47:55 -0000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Jon Hepplewhite" <jon.hepplewhite@btinternet.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: [off-topic] Lord of the Rings
Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2001 18:47:55 -0000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I doubt very much we will see a film that is a perfect rendition of book
turned film.  Especially one which is so detailed and with everyone having
their own interpretation though  their imaginations.  you just have to look
at Harry Potter, I have heard fans of the novels saying exactly the same
thing.  My opinion is that you must treat it as a completely separate
entity.
I think Peter Jackson has done a tremendous job.

Jon ( new to this 'ere list...hi everyone! )

-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of James Young
>Sent: 26 December 2001 18:11
>To: FEISTFANS-L
>Subject: Re: [off-topic] Lord of the Rings
>
>
>    Being a Tolkien Fanatic I saw it opening day and was completely
>unimpressed with the rendition as a whole from a book to movie stand
>point.  The imagery was nice (I was most impressed with the
>rendition of Orthanc) but the acting needed a lot of work
>particularly with the character of Aragorn.  As I have stated before
>I am very intolerant of them screwing with the books like that.  And
>they did screw the books up royally.  As a piece of cinema it is
>good enough, as a "true to the books" tale, it falls FAR short of
>the mark.    It makes me glad no one has picked up Ray's work for a
>movie yet, since after Tolkien he is a close second as my favorite
>author.
>
>-James (who paid his eight bucks a week in advance for tickets)
>
>----- Original Message -----
>
>> Indeed. I just saw it. It is absoloutly amazing, isnt it.
>
>> > I took Ray's advice (See It!) and did so today.
>> >
>> > I came out stunned. The only word that really applies is "WOW".
>> > I am going to have to see it again so I can pay a little more
>attention
>> > to the detail that was provided in the background.
>
>

1,,
Summary-line: 26-Dec            cries@yifan.net  [67] #Re: [off-topic] Lord of the Rings
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2001 11:54:23 -0700
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: feistfans-l@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: [off-topic] Lord of the Rings
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Jon Hepplewhite wrote:
> 
> I doubt very much we will see a film that is a perfect rendition of book
> turned film.

Unfortunately, some people tend to think otherwise when it comes to LotR
:)

> you just have to look at Harry Potter, I have heard fans of the novels
> saying exactly the same thing.

It's rather odd, but I've read and heard that some critics tore apart
Chris Columbus for staying TOO true to the first Harry Potter book for
the movie. Of course, we will never know if staying that close is for
good or ill (atleast I *hope* nobody intends to remake it anytime soon);
the movie did well enough with the script it had.

And it appears as Fellowship will be the same way, even though it didn't
stay as close to the book. I don't think anybody can truly say for
certain that, had the movie stayed alot closer to the book, that it
would've been better.

Craig J. Ries



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Summary-line: 27-Dec   kenosti@labyrinth.net.au  [66] #Re: [off-topic] Lord of the Rings
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Subject: Re: [off-topic] Lord of the Rings
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2001 06:23:12 +1100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Anestis Kozakis <kenosti@labyrinth.net.au>
Subject: Re: [off-topic] Lord of the Rings
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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At 13:15 -0500 2001/12/26, Valheru22@aol.com wrote:
>I have seen it three times soon to be four. It is the best movie of 
>the year! Harry Potter better bend over and kiss its ass good bye!
>-Chance

I haven't seen LoTR yet (I'm seeing it on Saturday), but it amazes me 
how people try to compare two different styles of films aimed at 2 
different audiences as if they were in the same class.

Harry Potter is a movie aimed at kids which adults can enjoy as well 
(and I did enjoy Harry Potter, and yes I have read the books).  I 
assume FotR is aimed at mainly adults (sorry, I haven't read the 
books yet).

It's like people who compared The Sixth Sense with Unbreakable.  Two 
completely different movies that I feel aren't in the same class or 
genre, which happened to be directed by the same person.

Anestis.
-- 
kenosti@labyrinth.net.au
"A complete list of this film's associate producers
  is available upon request."
    -- In End Credits for "State and Main"



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Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2001 08:17:36 +1100 (EST)
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2001 08:17:36 +1100 (EST)
From: David Smith - NT Interoperability Engineer <David.M.Smith@Sun.COM>
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: [off-topic] Lord of the Rings
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

» At 13:15 -0500 2001/12/26, Valheru22@aol.com wrote:
» >I have seen it three times soon to be four. It is the best movie of 
» >the year! Harry Potter better bend over and kiss its ass good bye!
» >-Chance
» 
» I haven't seen LoTR yet (I'm seeing it on Saturday), but it amazes me 
» how people try to compare two different styles of films aimed at 2 
» different audiences as if they were in the same class.
» 
» Harry Potter is a movie aimed at kids which adults can enjoy as well 
» (and I did enjoy Harry Potter, and yes I have read the books).  I 
» assume FotR is aimed at mainly adults (sorry, I haven't read the 
» books yet).
» 
» It's like people who compared The Sixth Sense with Unbreakable.  Two 
» completely different movies that I feel aren't in the same class or 
» genre, which happened to be directed by the same person.
» 
» Anestis.

That's probably because to your average Joe, both movies are aimed at the same 
audience. Those of us who know the genre (e.g. everybody on this list) know that 
they are aimed at two seperate audiences. We, however, make up a rather small 
proportion of the cinema going public.

>From "Joe's" point of view:

Harry Potter: Story about magic... some funny creatures (Ogre, "Fluffy" etc...) 
and boy becomes Wizard.
LotR: Story about magic... some funny creatures (Elves, Orcs etc...) and a 
couple of midgets accompanied by Wizard.
Peter Pan: Story about magic... some funny creatures (Fairies) and boy who can 
"do magic" (fly).
Wizard of Oz: Story about magic... some funny creatures (Munchkins, Tin Man 
etc...) trying to find a Wizard.

There's probably no shortage of people out there who, if you were to add some 
magic type special effects to a porno movie, would wonder why this damn kids 
movie has so much nudity. Some loosers even think Dungeons and Dragons and Harry 
Potter are Satanic.

Anyways... can't wait to see LotR. It was only released in Oz yesterday (26th) 
and I'm not keen on waiting in queues. Definately enjoyed Harry Potter, my wife 
keeps asking if I'm waiting for somebody to drop in and say "You're a wizard 
David!" :) I keep answering "You bet!" ;-)

-- David Smith



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Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2001 08:25:23 +1100
From: "Jason Mulligan" <sulimo@bigpond.net.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: [off-topic] Lord of the Rings
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Well, it finally opened locally and I went to see it yesterday. And I
have to say I'm of two minds, especially now that I've thought about
it a little.

Many of the changes I simply didnt like, and some of which were simply
un-necesary.

The ones that I _really_ didnt like was the Saruman arc (him working
with Sauron from the start & and him calling down the storm at
Caradhras); and the climax of the film and how Frodo and Sam left the
others.

The other things that really bugged me was the whole Council of
Elrond, as well as the Lorien and Galadriel bits. Lorien especially
didnt feel right.

I think the whole thing lost some of it's depth with the films focus
on action. I can really see now the value of the tales and poetry and
songs within LOTR. Not that I didnt before. I dont think it would've
been hard to solve. Just have part of the Beren/Luthien tale (even the
Bakshi version has this), and part of the poem and conversation about
the history of Moria.

And the loss of the great line 'he who breaks a thing to find out what
it is has left the path of wisdom" was quite a disappointment.

And then there was the statement about Aragorn choosing exile. What
was that about? why? Same with Gollum stuff, why discard the 'he was
originally a hobbit, but the ring corrupted him' stuff?
 
I wasn't too happy about the characterisation of Gimli either. Way too
angry for my taste.

Ironically, I _really_ liked what Peter did with Arwen.

Visually it was pretty much spot on. 

 



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Subject: Re: [off-topic] Lord of the Rings
Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2001 12:58:26 +1300
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From: "garywright" <garywright@xtra.co.nz>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: [off-topic] Lord of the Rings
Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2001 12:58:26 +1300
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I am a Tolkien/Fantasy fan, and I thought the movie was absolutely
fantastic.

No complaints from me.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jason Mulligan" <sulimo@bigpond.net.au>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2001 10:25 AM
Subject: Re: [off-topic] Lord of the Rings


> Well, it finally opened locally and I went to see it yesterday. And I have
>to say I'm of two minds, especially
> now that I've thought about it a little.
>
> Many of the changes I simply didnt like, and some of which were simply
>un-necesary.
>
> The ones that I _really_ didnt like was the Saruman arc (him working with
>Sauron from the start & and him
> calling down the storm at Caradhras); and the climax of the film and how
>Frodo and Sam left the others.
>
> The other things that really bugged me was the whole Council of Elrond, as
>well as the Lorien and
> Galadriel bits. Lorien especially didnt feel right.
>
> I think the whole thing lost some of it's depth with the films focus on
>action. I can really see now the
> value of the tales and poetry and songs within LOTR. Not that I didnt
>before. I dont think it would've been
> hard to solve. Just have part of the Beren/Luthien tale (even the Bakshi
>version has this), and part of the
> poem and conversation about the history of Moria.
>
> And the loss of the great line 'he who breaks a thing to find out what it
>is has left the path of wisdom"
> was quite a disappointment.
>
> And then there was the statement about Aragorn choosing exile. What was
>that about? why? Same with
> Gollum stuff, why discard the 'he was originally a hobbit, but the ring
>corrupted him' stuff?
>
> I wasn't too happy about the characterisation of Gimli either. Way too
>angry for my taste.
>
> Ironically, I _really_ liked what Peter did with Arwen.
>
> Visually it was pretty much spot on.
>
>
>
>



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Summary-line: 27-Dec      nerf@alphalink.com.au  [67] #Re: [off-topic] Lord of the Rings
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Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2001 11:53:16 +1100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Alex Loke <nerf@alphalink.com.au>
Subject: Re: [off-topic] Lord of the Rings
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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At 12:10 PM 26/12/2001 -0600, you wrote:
>    Being a Tolkien Fanatic I saw it opening day and was completely
>unimpressed with the rendition as a whole from a book to movie stand
>point.  The imagery was nice (I was most impressed with the
>rendition of Orthanc) but the acting needed a lot of work
>particularly with the character of Aragorn.  As I have stated before
>I am very intolerant of them screwing with the books like that.  And
>they did screw the books up royally.  As a piece of cinema it is
>good enough, as a "true to the books" tale, it falls FAR short of
>the mark.    It makes me glad no one has picked up Ray's work for a
>movie yet, since after Tolkien he is a close second as my favorite
>author.

I understand that some mistakes are intolerable, but my opinion is that
this is an adaptation of Tolkien's work, since a more literal translation
isn't really possible due to the difference in mediums. One is a book, the
other is a movie - chances are that they won't feel exactly the same. From
what I hear, this is the opinion Peter Jackson expressed, in address to the
Tolkien purists. It was a fun movie and I had no real problems with it, in
fact you might even say I liked it muchly.

Alex



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From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
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Subject: Re: [off-topic] Lord of the Rings
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Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2001 11:04:30 +1000 (GMT+1000)
From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: [off-topic] Lord of the Rings
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There is always one....

>     Being a Tolkien Fanatic I saw it opening day and was completely
> unimpressed with the rendition as a whole from a book to movie stand
> point.  The imagery was nice (I was most impressed with the
> rendition of Orthanc) but the acting needed a lot of work
> particularly with the character of Aragorn.  As I have stated before
> I am very intolerant of them screwing with the books like that.  And
> they did screw the books up royally.  As a piece of cinema it is
> good enough, as a "true to the books" tale, it falls FAR short of
> the mark.    It makes me glad no one has picked up Ray's work for a
> movie yet, since after Tolkien he is a close second as my favorite
> author.
>
> -James (who paid his eight bucks a week in advance for tickets)
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> > Indeed. I just saw it. It is absoloutly amazing, isnt it.
>
> > > I took Ray's advice (See It!) and did so today.
> > >
> > > I came out stunned. The only word that really applies is "WOW".
> > > I am going to have to see it again so I can pay a little more
> attention
> > > to the detail that was provided in the background.
>
>

Thanks
Darragh
-=-=
www.iamtheporkfireman.com
[Email]: s356179@student.uq.edu.au [ICQ]: 114283262



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From: Colin Chia <solsc@earthling.net>
Subject: Re: [off-topic] Lord of the Rings
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Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2001 09:27:53 +0800
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Colin Chia <solsc@earthling.net>
Subject: Re: [off-topic] Lord of the Rings
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

My first post to the list in a year I think... well, it's nice to be back :)

Well I think the more fanatic you get and the more you read between the 
lines, the more you hate even slight changes to the story. I won't even 
mention BIG ones. I haven't seen the movie yet, but I plan to.

>     Being a Tolkien Fanatic I saw it opening day and was completely
>unimpressed with the rendition as a whole from a book to movie stand
>point.  The imagery was nice (I was most impressed with the
>rendition of Orthanc) but the acting needed a lot of work
>particularly with the character of Aragorn.  As I have stated before
>I am very intolerant of them screwing with the books like that.  And
>they did screw the books up royally.  As a piece of cinema it is
>good enough, as a "true to the books" tale, it falls FAR short of
>the mark.    It makes me glad no one has picked up Ray's work for a
>movie yet, since after Tolkien he is a close second as my favorite
>author.



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Subject: Re: [off-topic] Lord of the Rings
Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2001 20:49:39 -0600
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From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: [off-topic] Lord of the Rings
Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2001 20:49:39 -0600
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Note the difference:

Fan: Fancier
vs.
Fan: Fanatic

    To put it mildly, I am not adverse to dressing up in crazy
costumes occasionally for the part.  That, coupled with memorization
of the entire series puts me in the later category.  Most "sane"
people (and I use the term somewhat loosely) are not of this
category about Tolkien, though I know a fair number of them who are
of that caliber in Star Trek, Star Wars, and several other sub-sets
of Sci-Fi/Fantasy.

- James

(For those of you old enough to remember the subway walls: "FRODO
LIVES")

----- Original Message -----
From: "garywright" <garywright@xtra.co.nz>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2001 5:58 PM
Subject: Re: [off-topic] Lord of the Rings


> I am a Tolkien/Fantasy fan, and I thought the movie was absolutely
> fantastic.
>
> No complaints from me.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jason Mulligan" <sulimo@bigpond.net.au>
> To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2001 10:25 AM
> Subject: Re: [off-topic] Lord of the Rings
>
>
> > Well, it finally opened locally and I went to see it yesterday. And I have
> to say I'm of two minds, especially
> > now that I've thought about it a little.
> >
> > Many of the changes I simply didnt like, and some of which were simply
> un-necesary.
> >
> > The ones that I _really_ didnt like was the Saruman arc (him working with
> Sauron from the start & and him
> > calling down the storm at Caradhras); and the climax of the film and how
> Frodo and Sam left the others.
> >
> > The other things that really bugged me was the whole Council of Elrond, as
> well as the Lorien and
> > Galadriel bits. Lorien especially didnt feel right.
> >
> > I think the whole thing lost some of it's depth with the films focus on
> action. I can really see now the
> > value of the tales and poetry and songs within LOTR. Not that I didnt
> before. I dont think it would've been
> > hard to solve. Just have part of the Beren/Luthien tale (even the Bakshi
> version has this), and part of the
> > poem and conversation about the history of Moria.
> >
> > And the loss of the great line 'he who breaks a thing to find out what it
> is has left the path of wisdom"
> > was quite a disappointment.
> >
> > And then there was the statement about Aragorn choosing exile. What was
> that about? why? Same with
> > Gollum stuff, why discard the 'he was originally a hobbit, but the ring
> corrupted him' stuff?
> >
> > I wasn't too happy about the characterisation of Gimli either. Way too
> angry for my taste.
> >
> > Ironically, I _really_ liked what Peter did with Arwen.
> >
> > Visually it was pretty much spot on.
> >
> >
> >
> >
>



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Subject: Re: [off-topic] Lord of the Rings
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Nevyn" <alien4@wasp.net.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: [off-topic] Lord of the Rings
Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2001 13:08:52 +0800
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I saw it opening day here (Australia) and I beg to disagree with your
statement. The movie did indeed stay close to the books, as close as any
other film created from a novel. They had to remove certain items from the
novel to create continuity and they gave more character to Arwen and Saruman
because it would be a shame to waste such good talents (Especially
Christopher Lee). I disagree with your statement about Aragorn. He was
magnificant, and played the character exactly as Tolkien wrote him - almost
emotionless. It takes a special kind of actor to convey that, and I must say
it was amazing. Every one of the cast was amazing, I can find no flaw in the
acting.

Jason
----- Original Message -----
From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>; <FEISTFANS-L>
Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2001 2:10 AM
Subject: Re: [off-topic] Lord of the Rings


>     Being a Tolkien Fanatic I saw it opening day and was completely
> unimpressed with the rendition as a whole from a book to movie stand
> point.  The imagery was nice (I was most impressed with the
> rendition of Orthanc) but the acting needed a lot of work
> particularly with the character of Aragorn.  As I have stated before
> I am very intolerant of them screwing with the books like that.  And
> they did screw the books up royally.  As a piece of cinema it is
> good enough, as a "true to the books" tale, it falls FAR short of
> the mark.    It makes me glad no one has picked up Ray's work for a
> movie yet, since after Tolkien he is a close second as my favorite
> author.
>
> -James (who paid his eight bucks a week in advance for tickets)
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> > Indeed. I just saw it. It is absoloutly amazing, isnt it.
>
> > > I took Ray's advice (See It!) and did so today.
> > >
> > > I came out stunned. The only word that really applies is "WOW".
> > > I am going to have to see it again so I can pay a little more
> attention
> > > to the detail that was provided in the background.
>
>



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On Wed, 26 Dec 2001 12:10:44  
 James Young wrote:
>    Being a Tolkien Fanatic I saw it opening day and was completely
>unimpressed with the rendition as a whole from a book to movie stand
>point.  The imagery was nice (I was most impressed with the
>rendition of Orthanc) but the acting needed a lot of work
>particularly with the character of Aragorn.  As I have stated before
>I am very intolerant of them screwing with the books like that.  And
>they did screw the books up royally.  As a piece of cinema it is
>good enough, as a "true to the books" tale, it falls FAR short of
>the mark.    It makes me glad no one has picked up Ray's work for a
>movie yet, since after Tolkien he is a close second as my favorite
>author.
>

I'm wondering why you even bothered to go see it. It was written in
the sky you would like the mowie the way you did, in fact you expected
it even before going there. You have to understand that compressing a
book like Tolkien's simply can't be done to the letter. If you can't
enjoy this LotR adaptation, well I'm sorry to tell you you will never
find any going better than this.

Sorry for your loss. Don't bother going to the other 2, you will waste
twice 8 bucks.
 
Paddyjack


>-James (who paid his eight bucks a week in advance for tickets)
>
>----- Original Message -----
>
>> Indeed. I just saw it. It is absoloutly amazing, isnt it.
>
>> > I took Ray's advice (See It!) and did so today.
>> >
>> > I came out stunned. The only word that really applies is "WOW".
>> > I am going to have to see it again so I can pay a little more
>attention
>> > to the detail that was provided in the background.
>
>


--
Click here for your very own create-a-date adventure from MatchMaker
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Subject: Re: [off-topic] Lord of the Rings
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From: "Mark Tonkin" <shadowfire@chariot.net.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: [off-topic] Lord of the Rings
Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2001 16:40:48 +1030
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Paddyjack [ ]" <erykel@lycos.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2001 3:59 PM
Subject: Re: [off-topic] Lord of the Rings

>
> I'm wondering why you even bothered to go see it. It was written in the
>sky you would like the mowie the way you did, in fact you expected it even
>before going there. You have to understand that compressing a book like
>Tolkien's simply can't be done to the letter. If you can't enjoy this LotR
>adaptation, well I'm sorry to tell you you will never find any going better
>than this.
>
> Sorry for your loss. Don't bother going to the other 2, you will waste
twice 8 bucks.
>
> Paddyjack
>

There will always be people who go to movies, just to say how terrible it
was.  They form their opinion long before they enter the cinema and wont
change it no matter what the movie is like.  I thoroughly enjoyed The
Fellowship of the Ring, but was wishing for an intermission at around half
time - its one long movie.  There is no way I would have gone to a 6 hour
marathon just to get a perfect translation of the book, I would have fallen
asleep through it.

- MARK



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Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2001 23:26:44 -0700
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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Mark Tonkin wrote:
> 
> There is no way I would have gone to a 6 hour marathon just to get a
> perfect translation of the book, I would have fallen asleep through it.

You may not have, but I'm sure lots of others would have :)

Craig J. Ries



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From: "Jason Martin" <res0b95g@verizon.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: [off-topic] Lord of the Rings
Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2001 22:35:36 -0800
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Tonkin" <shadowfire@chariot.net.au>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2001 10:10 PM
Subject: Re: [off-topic] Lord of the Rings


> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Paddyjack [ ]" <erykel@lycos.com>
> To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2001 3:59 PM
> Subject: Re: [off-topic] Lord of the Rings
>
> >
> > I'm wondering why you even bothered to go see it. It was written in the
> sky you would like the mowie the way you did, in fact you expected it even
> before going there. You have to understand that compressing a book like
> Tolkien's simply can't be done to the letter. If you can't enjoy this LotR
> adaptation, well I'm sorry to tell you you will never find any going better
> than this.
> >
> > Sorry for your loss. Don't bother going to the other 2, you will waste
> twice 8 bucks.
> >
> > Paddyjack
> >
>
> There will always be people who go to movies, just to say how terrible it
> was.  They form their opinion long before they enter the cinema and wont
> change it no matter what the movie is like.  I thoroughly enjoyed The
> Fellowship of the Ring, but was wishing for an intermission at around half
> time - its one long movie.  There is no way I would have gone to a 6 hour
> marathon just to get a perfect translation of the book, I would have fallen
> asleep through it.
>
> - MARK
>
Dear God how I wished for an Intermission at around the half way point.  At
that point I felt like I had to go to the restroom. Then the last of hour I
was dying since I knew I did, and still had another hour to get through!  Oh
well still a damn good movie even on a full bladder.  Going again this
Saturday and dragging my wife and good friend (who both have not read the
books) so it should be interesting what they think of the movie.  Though I
made a slight mistake in telling my wife after I saw it on opening night
that it was a tad scary in parts....  Looks like I'll be holding her hand.
=)

Jason



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*** EOOH ***
From: "A Irving" <aignome@dingoblue.net.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: 
Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2001 18:49:23 +1000
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you need to send it to listproc@cornell.edu not to the actual list.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: Black Dragon <blackdragon@gamebox.net>
To: Feisty People (FEISTFANS-L) <Feistfans-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2001 6:33 PM


> UNSUBSCRIBE FEISTFANS-L
> 



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Subject: Re: [off-topic] Lord of the Rings
Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 00:23:52 +1100
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Barker" <heechee@softhome.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: [off-topic] Lord of the Rings
Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 00:23:52 +1100
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----- Original Message -----
From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2001 5:10 AM
Subject: Re: [off-topic] Lord of the Rings


>     Being a Tolkien Fanatic I saw it opening day and was completely
> unimpressed with the rendition as a whole from a book to movie stand
> point.  The imagery was nice (I was most impressed with the
> rendition of Orthanc) but the acting needed a lot of work
> particularly with the character of Aragorn.  As I have stated before
> I am very intolerant of them screwing with the books like that.  And
> they did screw the books up royally.  As a piece of cinema it is
> good enough, as a "true to the books" tale, it falls FAR short of
> the mark.    It makes me glad no one has picked up Ray's work for a
> movie yet, since after Tolkien he is a close second as my favorite
> author.
>
> -James (who paid his eight bucks a week in advance for tickets)

First, I'm going to say that I loved the movie. I just got back from seeing
it, and it will quite easily rank in my top ten of all time (which is
interesting because the books, while good, fall far short of that revered
list of books *grin*). But the one thing I've got to say is that I liked the
way Gandalf's story was told "as it happened," rather than it appearing all
at once during the Council of Elrond. The chapter of that name always seemed
a chore for me to read (and basically everyone else I know who has read the
books -- even some die-hard Tolkien fanatics), and this would not have been
a good thing as far as cinema audiences were concerned.

I just think that people, particularly the purists, have got to be
realistic. Let's face it, what would be the point of making a word-perfect
adaptation of a novel? If that's what you're after, come on, you've got an
imagination and you can buy a copy of the book.

Cheers,
(The Other) James



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> - James
> 
> (For those of you old enough to remember the subway walls: "FRODO
> LIVES") 
 
Oh my, I have that bumper sticker!! I never found the right place to
put it, so it just got put in the box with all my Tolkien books and
such.

 May have to dig it out, along with the books. I hate having my stuff
in storage!

 Anita, going in three days to see the flick 

 'Every happy ending needs to have a start.'

___________________________________________________________________
Join the Space Program: Get FREE E-mail at http://www.space.com.



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2001 12:12:51 -0700
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: [off-topic] Lord of the Rings
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James Barker wrote:
> 
> But the one thing I've got to say is that I liked the
> way Gandalf's story was told "as it happened," rather than it appearing all
> at once during the Council of Elrond.

Well, the narrative at the very beginning might've been better if it was
done by Galdalf, or even Elrond, instead of Galadriel. Otherwise, I felt
the way they handled the History of Middle-Earth, The Hobbit and the
other books, in as best a manner as possible, considering the depth of
the material.

Craig J. Ries



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Summary-line: 27-Dec   lord_al_rashid@yahoo.com  [57] #Re: [off-topic] Lord of the Rings
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From: Matt Sainsbury <lord_al_rashid@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [off-topic] Lord of the Rings
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2001 15:23:14 -0800 (PST)
From: Matt Sainsbury <lord_al_rashid@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [off-topic] Lord of the Rings
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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I felt the battle between Galdalf and Saruman was a
little childish and silly... and I felt that Galadrial
was portrayed as almost.. evil, cruel and harsh, not
the way I interpreted the character from the books.
That said, everythign else about the film I absolutely
loved. The Balrog was AMAZING, the various battles
were very pretty, and the acting was all round superb,
with the possible exception of Legolas, who should
have spoken much more 'flowing' than he did. Still the
best film I've ever seen after Seven :)

Matt


__________________________________________________
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Summary-line: 28-Dec         Jherek@bigpond.com  [60] #Re: [off-topic] Lord of the Rings
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 15:03:33 +1100
From: Alan <Jherek@bigpond.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: [off-topic] Lord of the Rings
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Having just finished seeing it, i'd have to say that its been very well
done. I'm a Tolkein Fan, so I was expecting the worst, however having
just finished seeing it, i'd have to say that its been very well done.
The acting was excellent, the way the film encapsulated the story of
Fellowship of the Ring was good so all and all it was a good $13.00
spent. I may even see it again.

Alan Payne

___
And he sees the vision splendid of the sunlit plains extended
And at night the wond'rous glory of the everlasting stars

Clancy of the Overflow



1,,
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Subject: Re: [off-topic] Lord of the Rings
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Andrew Scott" <a.sc0tt@attbi.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: [off-topic] Lord of the Rings
Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2001 20:15:52 -0800
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

----- Original Message -----
From: "Alan" <Jherek@bigpond.com
> Having just finished seeing it, i'd have to say that its been very well
> done. I'm a Tolkein Fan, so I was expecting the worst, however having
> just finished seeing it, i'd have to say that its been very well done.
> The acting was excellent, the way the film encapsulated the story of
> Fellowship of the Ring was good so all and all it was a good $13.00
> spent. I may even see it again.
>
> Alan Payne
>
$13!!!??? what kind of theater is that? Or is it canadian money? I always
thought the $5.75/$9 here was expensive (matinee/normal price)



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From: Brad_A_Krahe@allegiance.com.au
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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 15:20:05 +1100
Subject: Re: [off-topic] Lord of the Rings
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>$13!!!??? what kind of theater is that? Or is it canadian money? I always
>thought the $5.75/$9 here was expensive (matinee/normal price)
>

It would be Australian currency - for what its worth......... the money
that is!


Regards,

Brad




"Andrew Scott" <a.sc0tt@attbi.com> on 28/12/2001 15:15:52

Please respond to FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>
>To:   FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
>cc:    (bcc: Brad A Krahe/HCS)
>Subject:  Re: [off-topic] Lord of the Rings
>
>
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Alan" <Jherek@bigpond.com
>> Having just finished seeing it, i'd have to say that its been very well
>> done. I'm a Tolkein Fan, so I was expecting the worst, however having
>> just finished seeing it, i'd have to say that its been very well done.
>> The acting was excellent, the way the film encapsulated the story of
>> Fellowship of the Ring was good so all and all it was a good $13.00
>> spent. I may even see it again.
>>
>> Alan Payne
>>
>$13!!!??? what kind of theater is that? Or is it canadian money? I always
>thought the $5.75/$9 here was expensive (matinee/normal price)

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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 15:46:14 +1100
From: Alan <Jherek@bigpond.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: [off-topic] Lord of the Rings
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Brad_A_Krahe@allegiance.com.au wrote:
> 
> $13!!!??? what kind of theater is that? Or is it canadian money? I always
> thought the $5.75/$9 here was expensive (matinee/normal price)
> 
> It would be Australian currency - for what its worth......... the money
> that is!
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Brad
> 
> "Andrew Scott" <a.sc0tt@attbi.com> on 28/12/2001 15:15:52
> 
> Please respond to FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> 
> To:   FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
> cc:    (bcc: Brad A Krahe/HCS)
> Subject:  Re: [off-topic] Lord of the Rings
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Alan" <Jherek@bigpond.com
> > Having just finished seeing it, i'd have to say that its been very well
> > done. I'm a Tolkein Fan, so I was expecting the worst, however having
> > just finished seeing it, i'd have to say that its been very well done.
> > The acting was excellent, the way the film encapsulated the story of
> > Fellowship of the Ring was good so all and all it was a good $13.00
> > spent. I may even see it again.
> >
> > Alan Payne
> >
> $13!!!??? what kind of theater is that? Or is it canadian money? I always
> thought the $5.75/$9 here was expensive (matinee/normal price)

Australian Dollars


Alan


-- 
And he sees the vision splendid of the sunlit plains extended
And at night the wond'rous glory of the everlasting stars

Clancy of the Overflow



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References: <200112261102.fBQB2rU02327@vesvi.aus.sun.com>
 <000701c18e06$ea037e50$0300a8c0@shak>
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Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 15:45:58 +1100
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From: Anestis Kozakis <kenosti@labyrinth.net.au>
Subject: Re: [off-topic] Lord of the Rings
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 15:45:58 +1100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Anestis Kozakis <kenosti@labyrinth.net.au>
Subject: Re: [off-topic] Lord of the Rings
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

At 20:15 -0800 2001/12/27, Andrew Scott wrote:
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Alan" <Jherek@bigpond.com
>>  Having just finished seeing it, i'd have to say that its been very well
>>  done. I'm a Tolkein Fan, so I was expecting the worst, however having
>>  just finished seeing it, i'd have to say that its been very well done.
>>  The acting was excellent, the way the film encapsulated the story of
>>  Fellowship of the Ring was good so all and all it was a good $13.00
>>  spent. I may even see it again.
>>
>>  Alan Payne
>>
>$13!!!??? what kind of theater is that? Or is it canadian money? I always
>thought the $5.75/$9 here was expensive (matinee/normal price)

I think he means $13 Australian (which is somewhere between $6 and $7 US).

Depending where you go, $13 is most likely full adult price.

Movie Theatres here in Australia (Melbourne at least) vary the price 
of tickets depending on the time of day as well as the day you go.

Tuesday's during the day you can get half-price. Movies are more 
expensive on Thursday/Friday/Saturday Nights and Sundays during the 
day.  Thursdays is usually the day a movie is released, but opening 
day of a movie usually sees full price.

Anestis.


-- 
kenosti@labyrinth.net.au
"A complete list of this film's associate producers
  is available upon request."
    -- In End Credits for "State and Main"



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Subject: Witty Ray!! =)
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Jason Martin" <res0b95g@verizon.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Witty Ray!! =)
Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2001 22:15:00 -0800
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I was checking out the Feist newsgroup today and Ray, you are one funny guy.
I always knew you were, but when you answered one of the letters about
Rowling ripping you off I about fell out of my Chair laughing.  So how many
TD catches have you caught from Farve? =)  No seriously I thought it was
pretty good.

Still chuckling,

Jason

P.S.  It's to bad I have to wait another month or two to see, if Santa
brings my present of the 49ers winning the Super Bowl! =)
"Too much knowlege never makes for simple decisions."
                           Ghanima- Children of Dune



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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Kenneth Jones <killkenny@thos.co.za>
Subject: Re: [off-topic] Lord of the Rings
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 09:12:42 +0200
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Kenneth Jones <killkenny@thos.co.za>
Subject: Re: [off-topic] Lord of the Rings
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Don't worry a movie ticket here in South Africa costs about R30.00. Which 
if you convert to USA Dollars is about $3.00

SUX but hey what can u do.

Regards,
Kenneth

At 03:20 PM 12/28/01 +1100, you wrote:
>$13!!!??? what kind of theater is that? Or is it canadian money? I always
>thought the $5.75/$9 here was expensive (matinee/normal price)
>
>
>It would be Australian currency - for what its worth......... the money
>that is!
>
>
>Regards,
>
>Brad
>
>
>
>
>"Andrew Scott" <a.sc0tt@attbi.com> on 28/12/2001 15:15:52
>
>Please respond to FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>
>To:   FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
>cc:    (bcc: Brad A Krahe/HCS)
>Subject:  Re: [off-topic] Lord of the Rings
>
>
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Alan" <Jherek@bigpond.com
> > Having just finished seeing it, i'd have to say that its been very well
> > done. I'm a Tolkein Fan, so I was expecting the worst, however having
> > just finished seeing it, i'd have to say that its been very well done.
> > The acting was excellent, the way the film encapsulated the story of
> > Fellowship of the Ring was good so all and all it was a good $13.00
> > spent. I may even see it again.
> >
> > Alan Payne
> >
>$13!!!??? what kind of theater is that? Or is it canadian money? I always
>thought the $5.75/$9 here was expensive (matinee/normal price)



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From: LAR <lds627@attbi.com>
Subject: Re: [off-topic] Lord of the Rings
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 14:43:25 -0800
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu, FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: LAR <lds627@attbi.com>
Subject: Re: [off-topic] Lord of the Rings
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At 11:26 PM 12/26/2001 -0700, Craig J. Ries wrote:
>Mark Tonkin wrote:
> >
> > There is no way I would have gone to a 6 hour marathon just to get a
> > perfect translation of the book, I would have fallen asleep through it.
>
>You may not have, but I'm sure lots of others would have :)
>
>Craig J. Ries

I seriously doubt there would have been sufficient interest on the part of 
movie theatres and patrons to generate the $58 Million American that LOTR 
did in the states over the first 5 days. Movie theatres pay 85 - 95% of the 
ticket sales for the first 4 weeks to the distributor (Thus why it costs so 
much at the concession stand. That is where they make their money.) I doubt 
that a majority of the theatres would have tied up multiple screens as they 
did for the current version. Nor do I think the general masses have gone.
    * Which brings me to another point in regards to those complaining 
about the movie rendition. The question I ask is, if you were to take a 
NON-TOLKIEN/Fantasy to see this movie, would it have conveyed the essence 
of the story. Video and the written word are tremendously different 
mediums. More, Tolkien put in a great deal of extraneous detail  - not to 
mention all the minutiae  that does not have any relevance until two books 
later (The ents were such a case IIRC). His desire was to create a magnum 
opus and saga for the ages in written form. Thus the songs and the great 
detail and prose. The movie on the other hand has no need for such devices, 
their job is to communicate the story and capture the essence of it. In 
seeing Harry Potter I have come to realize the greatest problem with 
reproducing the book PRECISELY, and that is a good deal of the awe and 
wonder was taken from me. I knew EXACTLY what was going to happen when. I 
enjoyed the movie thoroughly, but how I wish I could have shared in the awe 
I saw on the faces of my wife and our friend who had not read the books. As 
a movie I would say LOTR has succeeded admirably. They stayed faithful to 
the book, and communicated the major points of the story very well. The 
liberties taken were done in the interest of furthering the plot and did 
not significantly change anything.
Just my opinion

Larry

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Subject: Re: [off-topic] Lord of the Rings
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*** EOOH ***
From: "A Irving" <aignome@dingoblue.net.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: [off-topic] Lord of the Rings
Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2001 23:32:26 +1000
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

From: Anestis Kozakis <kenosti@labyrinth.net.au>
> >$13!!!??? what kind of theater is that? Or is it canadian money? I always
> >thought the $5.75/$9 here was expensive (matinee/normal price)
>
> I think he means $13 Australian (which is somewhere between $6 and $7 US).
>
> Depending where you go, $13 is most likely full adult price.
>
> Movie Theatres here in Australia (Melbourne at least) vary the price
> of tickets depending on the time of day as well as the day you go.
>
> Tuesday's during the day you can get half-price. Movies are more
> expensive on Thursday/Friday/Saturday Nights and Sundays during the
> day.  Thursdays is usually the day a movie is released, but opening
> day of a movie usually sees full price.
>
> Anestis.
At the cinema closest to me, they give discounted tuesdays, though it is no
longer half-price. I think it is $12.50 for full adult price, though I pay
$6 because of my university discount deal :) I also have a discount card
which my gf uses, since she does not go to my uni, for $9. It is the same
price for all sessions apart from tuesdays, so you save a bit after a while
with the discount. They also have a thing called "Gold Class" which involves
completely reclineable chairs, lots of leg room, about 40 seats in the whole
cinema, it costs $15 during the day and $23 at night or something, where
they serve alcohol and food if you pay for it..
CIAO,
           Aaron

http://www.hallofworlds.net/kerr/main.php
http://www.nightshadow.co.uk



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From: "Doug Triplett, Superhero in Training !!!" <trippy@dougtriplett.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Faerie Tale 1st Edition
Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2001 10:05:30 -0500
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Doug Triplett, Superhero in Training !!!" <trippy@dougtriplett.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Faerie Tale 1st Edition
Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2001 10:05:30 -0500
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I just bought a first edition off Ebay. I'm quite happy with that. I am as
always looking to expand my collection.

It is a pretty good New Year's present for myself :)

Doug



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From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re: An Incident
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From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: An Incident
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Huh, I have been booted from the list since the 21st. Must be some liberal 
antigun type who didn't like my views on personal freedom.

Anyway, Hope you all had a great Holiday.

Since this is the REF list, I will not make any more comments about this 
topic, but I had to say to Mr. Young, I would like to see docmentation for 
the statistic that says carring a gun for
self defense increase your changes tenfold. Quite frankly, I am sure you
made it up. It sounds like an anti gun media sound bite to me. So to respond 
to what you have said:

I will say it again, I carry a firearm for self defense. I never said anyone 
else should, or should not, carry one. It is a personal decision that should 
only be made after considering all options. It should not be made lightly. 
Training with the weapon, (including self defense training) is paramount to 
the safe and effective use of a firearm.

In a typical antigun biased fashion, you automaticlly assume that because 
someone has a gun, a firefight will insue. Pulling a weapon should only be 
attempted as a last resort when escape seems impossible. Most often, simply 
showing the weapon will cause your attackers to flee. If not, you should be 
TRAINED to react with lethal force if necessary.

I am aware that there are age and other restrictions on where you can carry 
firearms, even with a permit, which is also why I said that is of 
fundamental importance that anyone who plans on carrying learn all of the 
local, county, state, and federal laws regarding firearms wherever they plan 
on carrying the weapon. I do not condone breaking any laws. I do condone 
moving to one of the 32 states (with much lower violent crime ratest I might 
add) that allow for citizens the right to protect their own lives.

Happy New year!

adieu

Jimmy, 30, and a little wiser than he was at 22


>From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
>Subject: Re: An Incident
>Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 14:51:12 -0600
>
>     I was going to stay out of this, but I want to first point out
>that in most cases you are not permitted to carry fire arms
>concealed in many places, and in those that I know you are allowed,
>generally you must be 18.  Speaking as one whose been in more than
>enough fights (I've also been robbed at gun point working as a store
>clerk), guns don't solve anything except if you have a problem with
>your own life.  If you pull a weapon you increase the chances that
>you yourself will be shot tenfold.  I don't know how much different
>life is down in OZ, from the inner city USA, but I am always glad I
>never carried a gun...because too many other people did.  The last
>thing I would recommend around a child is a fire fight.  Besides as
>that child grows older the chance of them being injured by your own
>gun is extremely high compared with children who grow up without
>guns in the home.
>
>-James, 22 (and perhaps a little wiser than he was at 18.)

_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com



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Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2001 12:35:00 EST
Subject: Re: An Incident
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*** EOOH ***
From: Valheru22@aol.com
Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2001 12:35:00 EST
Subject: Re: An Incident
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

In a message dated 12/29/2001 11:03:56 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
kiehtan@hotmail.com writes:


> Huh, I have been booted from the list since the 21st. Must be some liberal 
> antigun type who didn't like my views on personal freedom.
> 
> Anyway, Hope you all had a great Holiday.
> 
> Since this is the REF list, I will not make any more comments about this 
> topic, but I had to say to Mr. Young, I would like to see docmentation for 
> the statistic that says carring a gun for
> self defense increase your changes tenfold. Quite frankly, I am sure you
> made it up. It sounds like an anti gun media sound bite to me. So to 
> respond 
> to what you have said:
> 
> I will say it again, I carry a firearm for self defense. I never said 
> anyone 
> else should, or should not, carry one. It is a personal decision that 
> should 
> only be made after considering all options. It should not be made lightly. 
> Training with the weapon, (including self defense training) is paramount to 
> 
> the safe and effective use of a firearm.
> 
> In a typical antigun biased fashion, you automaticlly assume that because 
> someone has a gun, a firefight will insue. Pulling a weapon should only be 
> attempted as a last resort when escape seems impossible. Most often, simply 
> 
> showing the weapon will cause your attackers to flee. If not, you should be 
> 
> TRAINED to react with lethal force if necessary.
> 
> I am aware that there are age and other restrictions on where you can carry 
> 
> firearms, even with a permit, which is also why I said that is of 
> fundamental importance that anyone who plans on carrying learn all of the 
> local, county, state, and federal laws regarding firearms wherever they 
> plan 
> on carrying the weapon. I do not condone breaking any laws. I do condone 
> moving to one of the 32 states (with much lower violent crime ratest I 
> might 
> add) that allow for citizens the right to protect their own lives.
> 
> Happy New year!
> 
> adieu
> 
> Jimmy, 30, and a little wiser than he was at 22
> 

    I agree with James Young. He had such a better point. I just don't 
understand the point of carrying a fire arm. There so dangerous I mea sure 
you protect your self with it but carrying one enables you to have accidents. 
Accidents are never good! The fire arm could back fire. I mean lets face it I 
odn't care how much training you have you could and will make a mistake. You 
may forget about the saftey. What happens it accidently fires. Things happen. 
So I agree with James about the fire arms.
-Chance

   * but I had to say to Mr. Young, I would like to see docmentation for 
the statistic that says carring a gun for

Ps.About this comment. I wish I had the documentations cause guess what there 
no lie.

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From: "Rob K" <feistfan@rogers.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Faerie Tale 1st Edition
Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2001 13:11:32 -0500
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Rob K" <feistfan@rogers.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Faerie Tale 1st Edition
Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2001 13:11:32 -0500
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

How much did you pay for the book? I am just curious about its value
these days.

-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Doug Triplett,
>Superhero in Training !!!
>Sent: December 29, 2001 10:06 AM
>To: FEISTFANS-L
>Subject: Faerie Tale 1st Edition
>
>
>I just bought a first edition off Ebay. I'm quite happy with that. I am
>as always looking to expand my collection.
>
>It is a pretty good New Year's present for myself :)
>
>Doug
>
>

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To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
References: <17b.17deaef.295f58c4@aol.com>
Subject: Re: An Incident
Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2001 11:42:14 -0800
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Jason Martin" <res0b95g@verizon.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: An Incident
Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2001 11:42:14 -0800
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

    This I believe is a no win situation.  Some people like or will
carry guns and other people don't believe you should.  I for one like
the idea that we have the right to carry a firearm.  Does this mean I
do?  No it doesn't, but I still would like to have the choice.  As for
accidents, yes they happend, but I don't believe it is as high as you
are making it sound.  The people that shoot and own guns are people
who usually keep up the guns so they will not malfunction.  I have
never had any problems in shooting a gun or rifle.  On the other hand
if you buy a gun and let it sit and not keep it up, then yes there is
a chance of it malfunctioning.
    In the end I am not sure if we can say one way is better then the
other.  Documentation is good to present, but I don't take it at face
value.  Its is fairly easy to make documentation say what you want it
to say.  Anyhow can we just let this subject drop now, or take it off
the list?  I just wished we went back to fencing/dueling , then that
way you have a less chance of a innocent bystandered getting killed.

Thanks,

Jason  Martin  

"Too much knowlege never makes for simple decisions."
                           Ghanima- Children of Dune
>  ----- Original Message ----- 
>  From: Valheru22@aol.com 
>  To: FEISTFANS-L 
>  Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2001 9:35 AM
>  Subject: Re: An Incident
>
>
>  In a message dated 12/29/2001 11:03:56 AM Eastern Standard Time, kiehtan@hotmail.com writes:
>
>
>
>    Huh, I have been booted from the list since the 21st. Must be some liberal 
>    antigun type who didn't like my views on personal freedom.
>
>    Anyway, Hope you all had a great Holiday.
>
>    Since this is the REF list, I will not make any more comments about this 
>    topic, but I had to say to Mr. Young, I would like to see docmentation for 
>    the statistic that says carring a gun for
>    self defense increase your changes tenfold. Quite frankly, I am sure you
>    made it up. It sounds like an anti gun media sound bite to me. So to respond 
>    to what you have said:
>
>    I will say it again, I carry a firearm for self defense. I never said anyone 
>    else should, or should not, carry one. It is a personal decision that should 
>    only be made after considering all options. It should not be made lightly. 
>    Training with the weapon, (including self defense training) is paramount to 
>    the safe and effective use of a firearm.
>
>    In a typical antigun biased fashion, you automaticlly assume that because 
>    someone has a gun, a firefight will insue. Pulling a weapon should only be 
>    attempted as a last resort when escape seems impossible. Most often, simply 
>    showing the weapon will cause your attackers to flee. If not, you should be 
>    TRAINED to react with lethal force if necessary.
>
>    I am aware that there are age and other restrictions on where you can carry 
>    firearms, even with a permit, which is also why I said that is of 
>    fundamental importance that anyone who plans on carrying learn all of the 
>    local, county, state, and federal laws regarding firearms wherever they plan 
>    on carrying the weapon. I do not condone breaking any laws. I do condone 
>    moving to one of the 32 states (with much lower violent crime ratest I might 
>    add) that allow for citizens the right to protect their own lives.
>
>    Happy New year!
>
>    adieu
>
>    Jimmy, 30, and a little wiser than he was at 22
>
>
>
>      I agree with James Young. He had such a better point. I just don't understand the point of carrying a fire arm. There so dangerous I mea sure you protect your self with it but carrying one enables you to have accidents. Accidents are never good! The fire arm could back fire. I mean lets face it I odn't care how much training you have you could and will make a mistake. You may forget about the saftey. What happens it accidently fires. Things happen. So I agree with James about the fire arms.
>  -Chance
>
>     * but I had to say to Mr. Young, I would like to see docmentation for 
>  the statistic that says carring a gun for
>
>  Ps.About this comment. I wish I had the documentations cause guess what there no lie. 

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From: "Jason Martin" <res0b95g@verizon.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: OT:  SD Chargers.. 
Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2001 11:55:31 -0800
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Jason Martin" <res0b95g@verizon.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: OT:  SD Chargers.. 
Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2001 11:55:31 -0800
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Looks like according to ESPN Riley the head coach of the Chargers will not
be with the team much longer.  I was hoping he could help SD out, but I
guess he couldn't do it.  I thought he did a good job for the OSU Beavers.
Ray any comments on this?

Jason

"Too much knowlege never makes for simple decisions."
                           Ghanima- Children of Dune



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Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2001 12:40:49 -0800
Subject: Re: OT:  SD Chargers.. 
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Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2001 12:40:49 -0800
Subject: Re: OT:  SD Chargers.. 
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On Saturday, December 29, 2001, at 11:55 AM, Jason Martin wrote:

> Looks like according to ESPN Riley the head coach of the Chargers will 
> not
> be with the team much longer.  I was hoping he could help SD out, but I
> guess he couldn't do it.  I thought he did a good job for the OSU 
> Beavers.
> Ray any comments on this?
>

Mike's a good guy and the players adore him.  The team is so close to 
being competitive, but I doubt that'll help.  Another new coaching 
staff . . . sigh.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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From: "Damian Dyer" <Levic@tsurani.freeuk.com>
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References: <57F3882E-FC9C-11D5-81B0-003065A8A644@bittersea.com>
Subject: UK Tour
Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2001 00:17:29 -0000
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*** EOOH ***
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: "Damian Dyer" <Levic@tsurani.freeuk.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: UK Tour
Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2001 00:17:29 -0000
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Hello Ray,

With the current world political climate and all are you
still planning on touring the UK in the coming year?

Talking of which, happy New Year to everyone who
celebrates it on the 1st.

All the best,

Damian
"I don't believe in God, but I fear him"

PS.  To all those enjoying the LotR thread, many 
people on the list filter out any topics that have 
square brackets in them.  If you wish your threads
to be read then I would advise against using them.



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From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
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Subject: Re: An Incident
Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2001 19:09:56 -0600
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: An Incident
Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2001 19:09:56 -0600
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1) You have obviously misread my prior comments.  I said WHEN you
PULL the gun the chances for you to be shot are dramatically
increased (exact statistics can be obtained from the justice
department usually).  Not that ownership increases the chances (it
both does and doesn't, the statistics have to be sorted more than
lumped to understand probability).  Though it does correlate with
households with small children and firearm accidents.

2) I am not anti-gun, you have no clue what you are talking about.
I happen to own a .44 revolver (We inherited it) but I don't carry
it nor do I have small children in the house (nor plan to at any
time).  Hell I don't even keep bullets for it.  If someone breaks in
I am more likely to clean their clock with my fists and our 60 lb.
dog rather than fumble for a gun in the dark.  If you want to keep a
gun, fine, I only ask that you keep the damn thing registered and
limit yourself to a reasonable fire power (I personally object to
semi-automatics seeing no value to them at all).  If you want to go
hunting, I completely endorse hunting of white-tailed deer,
particularly doe hunting.  I am a gun-moderate if there can be such
a thing, don't confuse me with something I am not because I don't
agree with a gun as a self-defense mechanism particularly when there
are small children present.

3) Most people aren't trained properly to handle weapons and don't
receive proper training even when it is sought.  That leads to all
kinds of problems when guns are resorted to in a situation such as
this.  The firefight comment was entirely based upon the presence in
the aforementioned situation in which a child is present, you don't
want to risk the chance that a firefight might ensue.  I didn't say
that it would always happen.

4) Showing a gun doesn't always do that, it all depends on the
situation.  Where I grew up if you showed the gun, they pulled one,
and so on.  As I have said I am no stranger to fire arms, but in the
long run I find their hindrances more than the benefits to keeping
one for anything beyond hunting.

5) As for your personal views on freedom, may I remind you that your
views and mine are not at issue, but if you want to quote freedoms
make sure you quote the ENTIRE second amendment not the part that
suits your taste.

-James, who at 22 is wiser than many people at 30.

----- Original Message -----

> Huh, I have been booted from the list since the 21st. Must be some liberal
> antigun type who didn't like my views on personal freedom.
>
> Anyway, Hope you all had a great Holiday.
>
> Since this is the REF list, I will not make any more comments about this
> topic, but I had to say to Mr. Young, I would like to see docmentation for
> the statistic that says carring a gun for
> self defense increase your changes tenfold. Quite frankly, I am sure you
> made it up. It sounds like an anti gun media sound bite to me. So to respond
> to what you have said:
>
> I will say it again, I carry a firearm for self defense. I never said anyone
> else should, or should not, carry one. It is a personal decision that should
> only be made after considering all options. It should not be made lightly.
> Training with the weapon, (including self defense training) is paramount to
> the safe and effective use of a firearm.
>
> In a typical antigun biased fashion, you automaticlly assume that because
> someone has a gun, a firefight will insue. Pulling a weapon should only be
> attempted as a last resort when escape seems impossible. Most often, simply
> showing the weapon will cause your attackers to flee. If not, you should be
> TRAINED to react with lethal force if necessary.
>
> I am aware that there are age and other restrictions on where you can carry
> firearms, even with a permit, which is also why I said that is of
> fundamental importance that anyone who plans on carrying learn all of the
> local, county, state, and federal laws regarding firearms wherever they plan
> on carrying the weapon. I do not condone breaking any laws. I do condone
> moving to one of the 32 states (with much lower violent crime ratest I might
> add) that allow for citizens the right to protect their own lives.
>
> Happy New year!
>
> adieu
>
> Jimmy, 30, and a little wiser than he was at 22
>
>
> >From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
> >Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> >To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
> >Subject: Re: An Incident
> >Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 14:51:12 -0600
> >
> >     I was going to stay out of this, but I want to first point out
> >that in most cases you are not permitted to carry fire arms
> >concealed in many places, and in those that I know you are allowed,
> >generally you must be 18.  Speaking as one whose been in more than
> >enough fights (I've also been robbed at gun point working as a store
> >clerk), guns don't solve anything except if you have a problem with
> >your own life.  If you pull a weapon you increase the chances that
> >you yourself will be shot tenfold.  I don't know how much different
> >life is down in OZ, from the inner city USA, but I am always glad I
> >never carried a gun...because too many other people did.  The last
> >thing I would recommend around a child is a fire fight.  Besides as
> >that child grows older the chance of them being injured by your own
> >gun is extremely high compared with children who grow up without
> >guns in the home.
> >
> >-James, 22 (and perhaps a little wiser than he was at 18.)
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
>



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Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2001 17:37:52 -0800
Subject: Re: UK Tour
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2001 17:37:52 -0800
Subject: Re: UK Tour
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Saturday, December 29, 2001, at 04:17 PM, Damian Dyer wrote:

> Hello Ray,
>
> With the current world political climate and all are you
> still planning on touring the UK in the coming year?

I should be in the UK/Ireland in early September.  I may have a stop in 
Holland before or after, then on to Oz and NZ.


Best, R.E.F.

----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Subject: Re: OT:  SD Chargers.. 
Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2001 17:34:08 -0800
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Jason Martin" <res0b95g@verizon.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT:  SD Chargers.. 
Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2001 17:34:08 -0800
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Raymond Feist" <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2001 12:40 PM
Subject: Re: OT: SD Chargers..


>
> On Saturday, December 29, 2001, at 11:55 AM, Jason Martin wrote:
>
> > Looks like according to ESPN Riley the head coach of the Chargers will
> > not
> > be with the team much longer.  I was hoping he could help SD out, but I
> > guess he couldn't do it.  I thought he did a good job for the OSU
> > Beavers.
> > Ray any comments on this?
> >
>
> Mike's a good guy and the players adore him.  The team is so close to
> being competitive, but I doubt that'll help.  Another new coaching
> staff . . . sigh.
>
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
>
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
> stupidity.
Thats what stinks about hiring a new coaching staff.  It takes  a few years
for it to really flourish.  Though in all fairness with Riley he hasn't had
a great QB to work with till this year.  I just wish they would give him
another year or so to see what he can do.  Oh well, I wonder if he can get
the Notre Dame job?

Jason



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2001 01:59:10 +0000
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Al Burl <al.burl@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: Re: UK Tour
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Do you know what cities you are going to yet, or has that still got to be 
arranged?

Al

At 17:37 29/12/2001 -0800, Raymond Feist wrote:

>I should be in the UK/Ireland in early September.  I may have a stop in 
>Holland before or after, then on to Oz and NZ.
>
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
>stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2001 18:30:47 -0800
Subject: Re: UK Tour
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Saturday, December 29, 2001, at 05:59 PM, Al Burl wrote:

> Do you know what cities you are going to yet, or has that still got to 
> be arranged?
>
>

It has to be arranged.  I'll post that info here when I know.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.
>
>



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*** EOOH ***
From: dl24@cornell.edu (Daniel R Lorey)
Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2001 21:39:47 -0500 (EST)
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: An Incident
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On Sat, 29 Dec 2001, James Silva wrote:

> Huh, I have been booted from the list since the 21st. Must be some liberal 
> antigun type who didn't like my views on personal freedom.

  Nope, but thanks for trying to analyze my views regarding guns from the
fact that you got unsubscribed from the list for being just another 
Hotmail user who allowed their mailbox to fill up. If the list server
can't deliver email to your address due to a full mailbox, that's
grounds for immediate removal (error message available upon request).

  Let me also remind everyone that this is the Feistfans List, not a gun
list. Enough is enough.

  Dan Lorey - Feistfans-L List Owner



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Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2001 19:23:45 -0800
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From: Alan Kellogg <mythusmage@cts.com>
Subject: Re: OT:  SD Chargers..
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2001 19:23:45 -0800
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Alan Kellogg <mythusmage@cts.com>
Subject: Re: OT:  SD Chargers..
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

>On Saturday, December 29, 2001, at 11:55 AM, Jason Martin wrote:
>
>>Looks like according to ESPN Riley the head coach of the Chargers will not
>>be with the team much longer.  I was hoping he could help SD out, but I
>>guess he couldn't do it.  I thought he did a good job for the OSU Beavers.
>>Ray any comments on this?
>>
>
>Mike's a good guy and the players adore him.  The team is so close 
>to being competitive, but I doubt that'll help.  Another new 
>coaching staff . . . sigh.
>
>Best, R.E.F.

I have to wonder what would have happened if they had given Tommy 
Prothro another year.

Alan
-- 
Mythusmage.com <http://www.mythusmage.com>
Writing Practice at: <http://www.gamingoutpost.com>



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Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2001 19:27:37 -0800
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2001 19:27:37 -0800
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Alan Kellogg <mythusmage@cts.com>
Subject: Re: OT:  SD Chargers..
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Raymond Feist" <raymond@bittersea.com>
>To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
>Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2001 12:40 PM
>Subject: Re: OT: SD Chargers..
>
>
>>
>>  On Saturday, December 29, 2001, at 11:55 AM, Jason Martin wrote:
>>
>>  > Looks like according to ESPN Riley the head coach of the Chargers will
>>  > not
>>  > be with the team much longer.  I was hoping he could help SD out, but I
>>  > guess he couldn't do it.  I thought he did a good job for the OSU
>>  > Beavers.
>>  > Ray any comments on this?
>>  >
>>
>>  Mike's a good guy and the players adore him.  The team is so close to
>>  being competitive, but I doubt that'll help.  Another new coaching
>>  staff . . . sigh.
>>
>>  Best, R.E.F.
>>  ----
>>
>>  Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
>>  stupidity.
>Thats what stinks about hiring a new coaching staff.  It takes  a few years
>for it to really flourish.  Though in all fairness with Riley he hasn't had
>a great QB to work with till this year.  I just wish they would give him
>another year or so to see what he can do.  Oh well, I wonder if he can get
>the Notre Dame job?
>
>Jason

At the same time, the last few quarterbacks haven't had that great a 
front line to work with. Flutie's been doing more scrambling than a 
short order cook on a busy morning. Now add a receiving corps that 
couldn't catch the sniffles at a flu convention, and it's no wonder 
the Chargers are laggin'.

Alan
-- 
Mythusmage.com <http://www.mythusmage.com>
Writing Practice at: <http://www.gamingoutpost.com>



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Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2001 21:46:02 -0800
X-PH: V4.1@cornell.edu (Cornell Modified) 
From: Max Haghighi <maxhag@pacbell.net>
Subject: Book Tour
To: Feist Fan List <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2001 21:46:02 -0800
From: Max Haghighi <maxhag@pacbell.net>
Subject: Book Tour
To: Feist Fan List <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Ray:

I have been out of the loop for a while so I am confused if and when
your next book is coming out in the U.S.

The books are piling up and I need them signed :>...

I don't think I have ever thanked you for being such an entertaining and
talented writer, so thank you! Also, thank you for being such a gracious
host at all your signings.

Max



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*** EOOH ***
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Subject: Re: OT:  SD Chargers..
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--- Alan Kellogg <mythusmage@cts.com> wrote:
> 
> At the same time, the last few quarterbacks haven't
> had that great a 
> front line to work with. Flutie's been doing more
> scrambling than a 
> short order cook on a busy morning. Now add a
> receiving corps that 
> couldn't catch the sniffles at a flu convention, and
> it's no wonder 
> the Chargers are laggin'.
> 
> Alan
> -- 
> Mythusmage.com <http://www.mythusmage.com>
> Writing Practice at: <http://www.gamingoutpost.com>
> 
The Charger's most glaring weaknesses are the
offensive line and the lack of any talent at the WR
position.  
Anthony Miller was the last threat this team had, and
that was more than 5 years ago.  It's too bad because
Brees won't develop without some help at that
position.

Ray, I've heard that the Spanos family is friendly
with Bill Parcells, you think he would coach in SD?

Karl

__________________________________________________
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2001 00:09:29 -0700
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
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KARL SIMONIAN wrote:
> 
> Ray, I've heard that the Spanos family is friendly
> with Bill Parcells, you think he would coach in SD?

Heh. Oddly enough, I heard his name being tossed around today on ESPN
when they were discussing a replacement coach in San Diego.

Then again, every name imagination has been tossed around for the Notre
Dame job (they couldn't pay me enough to coach for them, even if it was
my line of work :)

Craig J. Ries



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Subject: Re: UK Tour
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Nevyn" <alien4@wasp.net.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: UK Tour
Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2001 15:35:06 +0800
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Ray, you should come to Perth here in Australia. *G* Youve got alot of fans
here.

Nevyn
----- Original Message -----
From: "Raymond Feist" <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2001 10:30 AM
Subject: Re: UK Tour


>
> On Saturday, December 29, 2001, at 05:59 PM, Al Burl wrote:
>
> > Do you know what cities you are going to yet, or has that still got to
> > be arranged?
> >
> >
>
> It has to be arranged.  I'll post that info here when I know.
>
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
>
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
> stupidity.
> >
> >
>



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2001 02:26:09 -0800
Subject: Re: UK Tour
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Saturday, December 29, 2001, at 11:35 PM, Nevyn wrote:

> Ray, you should come to Perth here in Australia. *G* Youve got alot of 
> fans
> here.
>
>

I have been to Perth/Freemantle.  Twice.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
From: "Nevyn" <alien4@wasp.net.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: UK Tour
Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2001 18:35:40 +0800
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*G* Excellent. 
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Raymond Feist" <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2001 6:26 PM
Subject: Re: UK Tour


> 
> On Saturday, December 29, 2001, at 11:35 PM, Nevyn wrote:
> 
> > Ray, you should come to Perth here in Australia. *G* Youve got alot of 
> > fans
> > here.
> >
> >
> 
> I have been to Perth/Freemantle.  Twice.
> 
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
> 
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
> stupidity.
> 



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2001 08:33:40 -0800
Subject: Re: Book Tour
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Saturday, December 29, 2001, at 09:46 PM, Max Haghighi wrote:

> Ray:
>
> I have been out of the loop for a while so I am confused if and when
> your next book is coming out in the U.S.

The next book in the US is Talon of the Silver Hawk, which won't be out 
until spring 2003.
>
> The books are piling up and I need them signed :>...
>
> I don't think I have ever thanked you for being such an entertaining and
> talented writer, so thank you! Also, thank you for being such a gracious
> host at all your signings.
>

You're more than welcome.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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From: "Doug Triplett, Superhero in Training !!!" <trippy@dougtriplett.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
References: <000601c19094$3f0cd650$34152b18@dumbox>
Subject: Re: Faerie Tale 1st Edition
Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2001 13:11:30 -0500
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Doug Triplett, Superhero in Training !!!" <trippy@dougtriplett.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Faerie Tale 1st Edition
Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2001 13:11:30 -0500
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

It was almost a steal at 22 dollars. I know the book is worth more than
that. The funny thing was no one else bid for it.

Doug
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: Rob K 
>To: FEISTFANS-L 
>Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2001 1:11 PM
>Subject: RE: Faerie Tale 1st Edition
>
>
>How much did you pay for the book? I am just curious about its value
>these days.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Doug Triplett,
>Superhero in Training !!!
>Sent: December 29, 2001 10:06 AM
>To: FEISTFANS-L
>Subject: Faerie Tale 1st Edition
>
>
>I just bought a first edition off Ebay. I'm quite happy with that. I am
>as always looking to expand my collection.
>
>It is a pretty good New Year's present for myself :)
>
>Doug

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From: Myecho32@aol.com
Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2001 13:55:10 EST
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Funny thing I was just in a book store in Vegas and saw it for $60.

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From: John <john@crydee.com>
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Subject: Re: Faerie Tale 1st Edition
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Myecho32@aol.com writes
>Funny thing I was just in a book store in Vegas and saw it for $60.

Damn ! and I don't pay more than $15 , must be doing something wrong <G>

100 copies FT for sale  $50 a piece any takers <G>

UK editions though are usually a lot more expensive
-- 
John

john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.

Raymond E Feist Ring
http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm



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From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Faerie Tale 1st Edition
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Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 08:49:53 +1000 (GMT+1000)
From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Faerie Tale 1st Edition
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> >Funny thing I was just in a book store in Vegas and saw it for $60.
> Damn ! and I don't pay more than $15 , must be doing something wrong <G>
> 100 copies FT for sale  $50 a piece any takers <G>
> UK editions though are usually a lot more expensive
> --
> John

Thats cause they're prettier :)

Thanks
Darragh
-=-=
www.iamtheporkfireman.com
[Email]: s356179@student.uq.edu.au [ICQ]: 114283262



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From: Kenneth Jones <killkenny@thos.co.za>
Subject: Re: UK Tour
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From: Kenneth Jones <killkenny@thos.co.za>
Subject: Re: UK Tour
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What about South Africa ever planing on coming here?


Regards,
Kenneth Jones


At 05:37 PM 12/29/01 -0800, you wrote:

>On Saturday, December 29, 2001, at 04:17 PM, Damian Dyer wrote:
>
>>Hello Ray,
>>
>>With the current world political climate and all are you
>>still planning on touring the UK in the coming year?
>
>I should be in the UK/Ireland in early September.  I may have a stop in 
>Holland before or after, then on to Oz and NZ.
>
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
>stupidity.



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Subject: Good the Second Time.
Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2001 23:07:00 -0800
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From: "Jason Martin" <res0b95g@verizon.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Good the Second Time.
Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2001 23:07:00 -0800
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Well I took my wife to see Lord of the Rings and she liked it!  I'm kind of
surprised since 1) She hasn't read the books, and 2) Does not like fantasy.
I did get her to read Ray, and she liked him, but skipped the battle scenes
(sorry Ray).  I just have to say LoTR the second time around is very good
still.  You get to catch on to more details that you  missed the first time.
Can't wait till that Movie hits DVD since it will be even more sharper then
the Theatre.  Hopefully it will be out in 6-9 months.

Jason

"Too much knowlege never makes for simple decisions."
                           Ghanima- Children of Dune



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You are welcome, Dan :) Sorry if you took it a bit personal, I meant that 
comment in a joking sort of way.

Adieu

Jimmy

>From: dl24@cornell.edu (Daniel R Lorey)
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
>Subject: Re: An Incident
>Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2001 21:39:47 -0500 (EST)
>
>On Sat, 29 Dec 2001, James Silva wrote:
>
> > Huh, I have been booted from the list since the 21st. Must be some 
>liberal
> > antigun type who didn't like my views on personal freedom.
>
>   Nope, but thanks for trying to analyze my views regarding guns from the
>fact that you got unsubscribed from the list for being just another
>Hotmail user who allowed their mailbox to fill up. If the list server
>can't deliver email to your address due to a full mailbox, that's
>grounds for immediate removal (error message available upon request).
>
>   Let me also remind everyone that this is the Feistfans List, not a gun
>list. Enough is enough.
>
>   Dan Lorey - Feistfans-L List Owner
>


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.



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From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
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From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re: An Incident
Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 11:44:32 -0500
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Dear Chance, Since you are concerned with firarm accidents, here are the 
statistis on accidental death in the US. It is all well and good to have an 
opinion, but you should be able to back it up with credible fact, else it is 
useless. I don't care if you love, or hate guns. It is your own personal 
choice. But please use facts rather than emotion and ignorance when stating 
a position, or critiquing an argument. If you would like to continue this 
conversation, please email me rather than sending it to the list. They 
sooooooo what this to end.

The most recent year for which data are available from the National Center 
for Health Statistics (NCHS) is 1998. Data are retrievable from the websites 
of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) National Center for 
Injury Prevention and Control for years 1981-1998, and CDC Wonder 
(wonder.cdc.gov) for 1979-1998. The National Safety Council's (NSC) Injury 
Facts: 2000 Edition provides some data for years 1903-1997 and estimates for 
1998 and 1999.



The first set is all ages. The second set is children, ie, those aged 0-14. 
Read each stat in this order:

1 Year
2 all causes total--
3 accidents
4 Motor vehicle
5 Poisoning
6 Medical
7 Falls
8 Fire
9 Environmental
factors
10 Drowning
11 Suffocation
12 Other
13 Firearm

1981
1,977,981
100,704
51,385
4,523
2,325
9,703
5,697
1,666
6,277
4,199
13,058
1,871

1982
1,974,797
94,082
45,779
4,733
2,387
9,417
5,210
1,787
6,351
4,135
12,527
1,756

1983
2,019,201
92,488
44,452
4,633
2,491
9,343
5,028
2,258
6,353
4,299
11,936
1,695

1984
2,039,369
92,911
46,263
4,911
2,463
9,177
5,010
1,602
5,388
4,454
11,975
1,668

1985
2,086,440
93,457
45,901
5,170
2,674
9,015
4,938
1,904
5,316
4,471
12,419
1,649

1986
2,105,361
95,277
47,865
5,740
2,873
8,737
4,835
1,501
5,700
4,633
11,941
1,452

1987
2,123,323
95,020
48,290
5,315
2,881
8,953
4,710
1,527
5,100
4,697
12,107
1,440

1988
2,167,999
97,100
49,078
6,226
2,858
9,196
4,965
1,799
4,966
4,761
11,750
1,501

1989
2,150,466
95,028
47,575
6,524
2,850
9,232
4,716
1,816
4,716
4,491
11,619
1,489

1990
2,148,463
91,983
46,814
5,803
2,669
9,476
4,175
1,453
4,685
4,195
11,297
1,416

1991
2,169,518
89,347
43,536
6,434
2,473
9,655
4,120
1,293
4,621
4,195
11,579
1,441

1992
2,175,613
86,777
40,982
7,082
2,669
9,529
3,958
1,233
4,186
4,062
11,667
1,409

1993
2,268,553
90,523
41,893
8,537
2,724
9,788
3,900
1,544
4,390
4,178
12,048
1,521

1994
2,278,994
91,437
42,524
8,994
2,616
10,088
3,986
1,474
3,942
4,143
12,314
1,356

1995
2,312,132
93,320
43,363
9,072
2,712
10,483
3,761
1,821
4,350
4,247
12,286
1,225

1996
2,314,690
94,948
43,649
9,510
2,919
11,292
3,741
1,550
3,959
4,320
12,874
1,134

1997
2,314,245
95,644
43,458
10,163
3,043
11,858
3,490
1,316
4,051
4,420
12,864
981

1998
2,337,256
97,835
43,501
10,801
3,228
12,595
3,255
1,522
4,406
4,585
13,076
866



CHILDREN ONLY

1981
61,429
8,996
3,831
169
65
232
1,344
89
1,511
798
659
298

1982
59,936
8,612
3,601
151
86
223
1,260
88
1,467
767
690
279

1983
57,571
8,320
3,474
144
82
223
1,174
105
1,461
747
667
243

1984
56,028
7,850
3,401
154
91
167
1,208
88
1,170
702
582
287

1985
56,302
7,998
3,514
132
87
188
1,177
84
1,260
658
620
278

1986
55,159
8,069
3,538
147
80
157
1,202
72
1,403
676
560
234

1987
54,624
8,069
3,587
100
81
149
1,212
81
1,363
690
559
247

1988
55,264
8,009
3,643
131
91
153
1,191
89
1,227
657
550
277

1989
55,861
7,860
3,487
121
102
133
1,183
93
1,198
736
534
273

1990
53,718
7,146
3,182
113
84
146
972
107
1,148
677
481
236

1991
52,459
7,286
3,087
132
95
175
1,104
79
1,142
719
526
227

1992
49,585
6,674
2,924
89
101
134
984
75
1,032
645
474
216

1993
49,190
6,954
3,044
128
99
131
1,015
96
1,064
672
500
205

1994
46,974
6,914
3,165
107
74
134
1,039
89
958
691
472
185

1995
44,572
6,611
3,059
80
80
121
833
76
1,060
672
449
181

1996
42,765
6,384
3,015
109
94
106
761
70
981
666
444
138

1997
41,607
6,141
2,900
81
92
112
676
81
965
659
433
142

1998
41,413
5,943
2,789
69
92
120
599
90
1,003
661
399
121

Adieu

Jimmy



>From: Valheru22@aol.com
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
>Subject: Re: An Incident
>Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2001 12:35:00 EST
>
>In a message dated 12/29/2001 11:03:56 AM Eastern Standard Time,
>kiehtan@hotmail.com writes:
>
>
> > Huh, I have been booted from the list since the 21st. Must be some 
>liberal
> > antigun type who didn't like my views on personal freedom.
> >
> > Anyway, Hope you all had a great Holiday.
> >
> > Since this is the REF list, I will not make any more comments about this
> > topic, but I had to say to Mr. Young, I would like to see docmentation 
>for
> > the statistic that says carring a gun for
> > self defense increase your changes tenfold. Quite frankly, I am sure you
> > made it up. It sounds like an anti gun media sound bite to me. So to
> > respond
> > to what you have said:
> >
> > I will say it again, I carry a firearm for self defense. I never said
> > anyone
> > else should, or should not, carry one. It is a personal decision that
> > should
> > only be made after considering all options. It should not be made 
>lightly.
> > Training with the weapon, (including self defense training) is paramount 
>to
> >
> > the safe and effective use of a firearm.
> >
> > In a typical antigun biased fashion, you automaticlly assume that 
>because
> > someone has a gun, a firefight will insue. Pulling a weapon should only 
>be
> > attempted as a last resort when escape seems impossible. Most often, 
>simply
> >
> > showing the weapon will cause your attackers to flee. If not, you should 
>be
> >
> > TRAINED to react with lethal force if necessary.
> >
> > I am aware that there are age and other restrictions on where you can 
>carry
> >
> > firearms, even with a permit, which is also why I said that is of
> > fundamental importance that anyone who plans on carrying learn all of 
>the
> > local, county, state, and federal laws regarding firearms wherever they
> > plan
> > on carrying the weapon. I do not condone breaking any laws. I do condone
> > moving to one of the 32 states (with much lower violent crime ratest I
> > might
> > add) that allow for citizens the right to protect their own lives.
> >
> > Happy New year!
> >
> > adieu
> >
> > Jimmy, 30, and a little wiser than he was at 22
> >
>
>     I agree with James Young. He had such a better point. I just don't
>understand the point of carrying a fire arm. There so dangerous I mea sure
>you protect your self with it but carrying one enables you to have 
>accidents.
>Accidents are never good! The fire arm could back fire. I mean lets face it 
>I
>odn't care how much training you have you could and will make a mistake. 
>You
>may forget about the saftey. What happens it accidently fires. Things 
>happen.
>So I agree with James about the fire arms.
>-Chance
>
>    * but I had to say to Mr. Young, I would like to see docmentation for
>the statistic that says carring a gun for
>
>Ps.About this comment. I wish I had the documentations cause guess what 
>there
>no lie.


_________________________________________________________________
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From: "Donal K. Fellows" <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
In-reply-to: <F71Brnz7lHM4eZ1OSAe0000c81e@hotmail.com> (kiehtan@hotmail.com)
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From: "Donal K. Fellows" <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: An Incident
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

"James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
> Dear Chance, Since you are concerned with firarm accidents, here are the 
> statistis on accidental death in the US. It is all well and good to have an 
> opinion, but you should be able to back it up with credible fact, else it is 
> useless. I don't care if you love, or hate guns. It is your own personal 
> choice. But please use facts rather than emotion and ignorance when stating 
> a position, or critiquing an argument. If you would like to continue this 
> conversation, please email me rather than sending it to the list. They 
> sooooooo what this to end.

I don't particularly care what you or anyone thinks about guns;
tactical nuclear statistics strikes are not good behaviour on this
list (or any other which I subscribe to, for that matter.)  Please
refrain from doing this in future, especially since you can always
point him to a webpage that presents this in a more comprehensible
fashion in almost no space at all.  (500-odd lines of virtually bare
figures?  "Just say no!")

Is this a flame?  Or just a light toasting?  Who knows...

Donal.
-- 
Donal K. Fellows, Department of Computer Science, University of Manchester, UK.
(work) fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk     Tel: +44-161-275-6137  (preferred email addr.)
(home) donal@ugglan.demon.co.uk  Tel: +44-1274-401017   Mobile: +44-7957-298955
http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~fellowsd/  (Don't quote my .sig; I've seen it before!)



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Hi everyone!

I am about to finish 'A Darkness At Sethanon' and went today to buy the next
book.  I bought 'Prince Of The Blood'  Is this the right follow on to 'A
Darkness...'?  As it looks like a story about Arutha's sons, Borric and
Erland.  Have I missed out another book?  Someone please help!!
Hope everyone has a good New Years.

Jon



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 09:27:12 -0800
Subject: Re: UK Tour
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Sunday, December 30, 2001, at 11:05 PM, Kenneth Jones wrote:

>
> What about South Africa ever planing on coming here?
>

It's under discussion.  The problem is in terms of world-wide sales, SA 
is a very tiny market, and physically isolated enough that HarperCollins 
might not see it as cost beneficial to send me there.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.
>
>



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Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 09:28:35 -0800
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Subject: 2002
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 09:28:35 -0800
Subject: 2002
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: fEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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It's already started Downunder, so as we bid goodbye to 2001, I want to 
wish everyone on the list the safest and healthiest of New Years.

May 2002 be the best year so far in your life and the worst of all to 
follow after.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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On 31 Dec 2001 at 17:20, Jon Hepplewhite 
wrote:

> Hi everyone!
> 
> I am about to finish 'A Darkness At Sethanon' and went today to buy the next
> book.  I bought 'Prince Of The Blood'  Is this the right follow on to 'A
> Darkness...'?  As it looks like a story about Arutha's sons, Borric and
> Erland.  Have I missed out another book?  Someone please help!!
> Hope everyone has a good New Years.

"Prince..." was the book published after 
"Darkness..." so it's probably the best book to 
read just now. In chronological order the 
Krondor series comes next but most people 
prefer to wait until after they've read the 
Serpentwar to read that.
There are really two choices after ADAS :
either read Prince of the Blood now or read  
the Krondor books, it shouldn't matter too 
much which one you choose. 

>Jon
 
-- 
William Marnoch
william@wmarnoch.freeserve.co.uk
ICQ : 77848483



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Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 13:16:36 -0500
Subject: Re: 2002
From: Bob Montgomery <dante@kingcon.com>
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Well said, as usual, Ray.

While 2001 was a bittersweet year, with joy and sadness at such extremes as
to make Cybil feel well-adjusted, we can only look forward with hope. There
is much to look forward to, not the least new reading from you :)

To you and yours, only the best. On several occasions I've thanked you for
your hard work, and once again, I must say "Thank you" for enriching my
mental, emotional and spiritual life with your blood, sweat and, no doubt,
tears in this last year. Honoured Enemy was simply fantastic, and I'm
looking forward to this next collaboration with Joel, who seems to be a
truly nice guy, based on our few chats on the newsgroup.

And chin up, Ray. Those Chargers might yet get their act together for 2002,
right? :) A close loss yesterday, but not enough when it counted (six trips
inside the red zone and five field goals? Yikes...). Still did better than
my Saints (40-10 pounding from the Redskins?! Grrrr).

All the best!

Bob

-- 
Each small candle lights a corner of the the darkness.
-Roger Waters-

> From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
> Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 09:28:35 -0800
> To: fEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
> Subject: 2002
> 
> It's already started Downunder, so as we bid goodbye to 2001, I want to
> wish everyone on the list the safest and healthiest of New Years.
> 
> May 2002 be the best year so far in your life and the worst of all to
> follow after.
> 
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
> 
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
> stupidity.
> 



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Subject: BTW, just saw on eBay...
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*** EOOH ***
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Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 14:01:36 -0500
Subject: BTW, just saw on eBay...
From: Bob Montgomery <dante@kingcon.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
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"VERY RARE Raymond E Feist Magician Proof

This is a very rare Uncorrected Proof / ARC/ Advance copy / Galley of the
First Edition

(Words used to help you find this item, as descriptions are often
transposed)
of 
Raymond E Feist

Magician Authors Prefered Edition 1992

This version contains words that were omitted from the original text of 1982

It is the only book Feist has changed the text to, putting back what he felt
was missing"

Buy It Now feature is enabled, and set at $1000 US... interesting. Thoughts
on this, Ray? Personally, I have mixed feelings, but I'm curious what your
thoughts on auctions of your books in general. I've acquired several
hardcover editions via auction that I wouldn't have otherwise found, but
this is almost like auctioning off a rockstar's discarded toothbrush. Too
harsh? Probably... it's the only thing I could think of :) Sure, part of me
(the sinister collecter part) would love to have something this rare, and
I'm sure if I had that kind of cash laying around not paying rent, I'd
consider it, but still... shouldn't *you* (ray, that is), be getting the
dosh for this sort of rarity? Again, mixed feelings...


-- 
"If you're going to be a prisoner of your own mind,
the least you can do is make sure it's well furnished."
>>Peter Ustinov<<



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 11:39:18 -0800
Subject: Re: BTW, just saw on eBay...
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Monday, December 31, 2001, at 11:01 AM, Bob Montgomery wrote:

> "VERY RARE Raymond E Feist Magician Proof
>
> This is a very rare Uncorrected Proof / ARC/ Advance copy / Galley of 
> the
> First Edition
>
> (Words used to help you find this item, as descriptions are often
> transposed)
> of
> Raymond E Feist
>
> Magician Authors Prefered Edition 1992
>
> This version contains words that were omitted from the original text of 
> 1982
>
> It is the only book Feist has changed the text to, putting back what he 
> felt
> was missing"
>
> Buy It Now feature is enabled, and set at $1000 US... interesting. 
> Thoughts
> on this, Ray? Personally, I have mixed feelings, but I'm curious what 
> your
> thoughts on auctions of your books in general. I've acquired several
> hardcover editions via auction that I wouldn't have otherwise found, but
> this is almost like auctioning off a rockstar's discarded toothbrush. 
> Too
> harsh? Probably... it's the only thing I could think of :) Sure, part 
> of me
> (the sinister collecter part) would love to have something this rare, 
> and
> I'm sure if I had that kind of cash laying around not paying rent, I'd
> consider it, but still... shouldn't *you* (ray, that is), be getting the
> dosh for this sort of rarity? Again, mixed feelings...
>
>
> --
> "If you're going to be a prisoner of your own mind,
> the least you can do is make sure it's well furnished."
>>> Peter Ustinov<<
>
>
>
>
I have no strong feelings on the subject.  People collect all manner of 
things.  Those galleys are always marked "not for sale," but they're 
always sold.  So it goes.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: 2002
Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2002 03:50:07 +0800
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From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: 2002
Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2002 03:50:07 +0800
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Thanks Ray, 

I hope you and all the other list members have a good one on this night
of new years eve and for the 365.25 days which follow it :)

Dave

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu 
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Raymond Feist
> Sent: Tuesday, 1 January 2002 1:29 AM
> To: FEISTFANS-L
> Subject: 2002
> 
> 
> It's already started Downunder, so as we bid goodbye to 2001, 
> I want to 
> wish everyone on the list the safest and healthiest of New Years.
> 
> May 2002 be the best year so far in your life and the worst of all to 
> follow after.
> 
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
> 
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be 
> explained away by 
> stupidity.
> 



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From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: An Incident
Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 14:44:19 -0500
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From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: An Incident
Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 14:44:19 -0500
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You are right Don, Sorry about that.

>From: "Donal K. Fellows" <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
>Subject: Re: An Incident
>Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 17:12:19 GMT
>
>"James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
> > Dear Chance, Since you are concerned with firarm accidents, here are the
> > statistis on accidental death in the US. It is all well and good to have 
>an
> > opinion, but you should be able to back it up with credible fact, else 
>it is
> > useless. I don't care if you love, or hate guns. It is your own personal
> > choice. But please use facts rather than emotion and ignorance when 
>stating
> > a position, or critiquing an argument. If you would like to continue 
>this
> > conversation, please email me rather than sending it to the list. They
> > sooooooo what this to end.
>
>I don't particularly care what you or anyone thinks about guns;
>tactical nuclear statistics strikes are not good behaviour on this
>list (or any other which I subscribe to, for that matter.)  Please
>refrain from doing this in future, especially since you can always
>point him to a webpage that presents this in a more comprehensible
>fashion in almost no space at all.  (500-odd lines of virtually bare
>figures?  "Just say no!")
>
>Is this a flame?  Or just a light toasting?  Who knows...
>
>Donal.
>--
>Donal K. Fellows, Department of Computer Science, University of Manchester, 
>UK.
>(work) fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk     Tel: +44-161-275-6137  (preferred email 
>addr.)
>(home) donal@ugglan.demon.co.uk  Tel: +44-1274-401017   Mobile: 
>+44-7957-298955
>http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~fellowsd/  (Don't quote my .sig; I've seen it 
>before!)
>


_________________________________________________________________
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From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re: Reading Order
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If you are interested in reading in chronological order, read Krondor the 
Betrayal next. If you want to go in Published order, than yes, Prince of the 
Blood is the right book.

Adieu

Jimmy


>From: "Jon Hepplewhite" <jon.hepplewhite@btinternet.com>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
>Subject: Reading Order
>Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 17:20:09 -0000
>
>Hi everyone!
>
>I am about to finish 'A Darkness At Sethanon' and went today to buy the 
>next
>book.  I bought 'Prince Of The Blood'  Is this the right follow on to 'A
>Darkness...'?  As it looks like a story about Arutha's sons, Borric and
>Erland.  Have I missed out another book?  Someone please help!!
>Hope everyone has a good New Years.
>
>Jon
>


_________________________________________________________________
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Subject: Re: BTW, just saw on eBay...
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Subject: Re: BTW, just saw on eBay...
From: Bob Montgomery <dante@kingcon.com>
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Thanks for the feedback, Ray.

Best to you and enjoy a nice glass of vino to toast in the New Year :)

> From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
> Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 11:39:18 -0800
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
> Subject: Re: BTW, just saw on eBay...
> 
> I have no strong feelings on the subject.  People collect all manner of
> things.  Those galleys are always marked "not for sale," but they're
> always sold.  So it goes.



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On Mon, 31 December 2001, Raymond Feist wrote:

> 
> It's already started Downunder, so as we bid goodbye to 2001, I want to 
> wish everyone on the list the safest and healthiest of New Years.
> 
> May 2002 be the best year so far in your life and the worst of all to 
> follow after.
> 
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
 
 Thanks, Ray! And hope you and everyone on the list makes the coming
year the best ever.
  
 Peace 
 
 Anita
 
 'Every happy ending needs to have a start.'

___________________________________________________________________
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From: John <john@crydee.com>
Subject: Re: BTW, just saw on eBay...
References: <B85615B3.392B%dante@kingcon.com>
 <B8562040.3930%dante@kingcon.com>
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Bob Montgomery <dante@kingcon.com> writes
>"VERY RARE Raymond E Feist Magician Proof
>
>Buy It Now feature is enabled, and set at $1000 US... interesting. Thoughts
>on this, Ray?

My view is if some idiot wants to spend the $1000 and buy it now then 
all the better. <g>

Most people who know me as a collector also know my ebay ID.

Most sensible people take a chance and just bid the minimum to clear the 
reserve, which for everyone on the list is $600.
But that's between us Right ! :)

This is the copy I notified the list  before Christmas that I would be 
selling to help keep a roof over my friends head, so the more money the 
better.

>Personally, I have mixed feelings, but I'm curious what your
>thoughts on auctions of your books in general. I've acquired several
>hardcover editions via auction that I wouldn't have otherwise found, but
>this is almost like auctioning off a rockstar's discarded toothbrush.

Nah!  the Rock star's tooth brush is next month <G> I still have another 
copy so I am not loosing anything. Damn now where's that spare Brown 
Bomber..........

Normally I don't part with the proofs I have spent time and money to 
acquire, but this is a means to an end. Though looking at it not many 
are interested anyway. So I will find other means, probably borrow the 
funds from my divorce fund <G>

best
-- 
John

john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.

Raymond E Feist Ring
http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm



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Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 18:17:53 -0500
Subject: Re: BTW, just saw on eBay...
X-PH: V4.1@cornell.edu (Cornell Modified) 
From: Bob Montgomery <dante@kingcon.com>
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Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 18:17:53 -0500
Subject: Re: BTW, just saw on eBay...
From: Bob Montgomery <dante@kingcon.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I had a sneaking suspicion that was your ID, John <G> I actually didn't get
around to signing up for list until around Christmas, so I probably missed
the notice.

Glad you didn't take my post the wrong way. I was more curious about Ray's
thoughts on selling what I would consider non-standard stuff, but it seems
he's as laid back about that as he is about posting, which is so refreshing
:) The toothbrush comment was definately meant as lighthearted... glad you
took it that way :)

Honestly John, if I had even the $600 to spare, I'd probably pick it up and
give it as a gift to my best friend, whose also a mad RF fan (who incidently
just got me 1st editions of Faerie Tale, DoE and SoE for Christmas... now
THAT'S a best friend, eh? <G>). But for now I'll have to stick to completing
my hardcover collections and getting gifts for friends :)

Have a great NY's John. All the best in the coming year. An interesting
aside: our friends are assembling to celebrate the new year, and out of the
20 people showing up, about a dozen of them are hardcore RF fans... not a
bad ratio, eh? Especially for this area, which is northern Vermont... hey
Ray, how about a book signing up here? <G> I'll swing the wine!

Anyhoo, take care everyone!

Bob

> From: John <john@crydee.com>
> Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 22:03:52 +0000
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
> Subject: Re: BTW, just saw on eBay...
> 
> My view is if some idiot wants to spend the $1000 and buy it now then
> all the better. <g>
> 
> Most people who know me as a collector also know my ebay ID.
> 
> Most sensible people take a chance and just bid the minimum to clear the
> reserve, which for everyone on the list is $600.
> But that's between us Right ! :)
> 
> This is the copy I notified the list  before Christmas that I would be
> selling to help keep a roof over my friends head, so the more money the
> better.
> 
>> Personally, I have mixed feelings, but I'm curious what your
>> thoughts on auctions of your books in general. I've acquired several
>> hardcover editions via auction that I wouldn't have otherwise found, but
>> this is almost like auctioning off a rockstar's discarded toothbrush.
> 
> Nah!  the Rock star's tooth brush is next month <G> I still have another
> copy so I am not loosing anything. Damn now where's that spare Brown
> Bomber..........
> 
> Normally I don't part with the proofs I have spent time and money to
> acquire, but this is a means to an end. Though looking at it not many
> are interested anyway. So I will find other means, probably borrow the
> funds from my divorce fund <G>
> 
> best
> -- 
> John



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From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Reading Order
In-Reply-To: <F135z3cOwip0K5vRDLb00013085@hotmail.com>
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Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2002 10:34:02 +1000 (GMT+1000)
From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
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IMOHO :)

The order in which they were published is the way to go....because
Krondor: Legacy series is kinda unfinished....



> If you are interested in reading in chronological order, read Krondor the
> Betrayal next. If you want to go in Published order, than yes, Prince of the
> Blood is the right book.
>
> Adieu
>
> Jimmy
>
>
> >From: "Jon Hepplewhite" <jon.hepplewhite@btinternet.com>
> >Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> >To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
> >Subject: Reading Order
> >Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 17:20:09 -0000
> >
> >Hi everyone!
> >
> >I am about to finish 'A Darkness At Sethanon' and went today to buy the
> >next
> >book.  I bought 'Prince Of The Blood'  Is this the right follow on to 'A
> >Darkness...'?  As it looks like a story about Arutha's sons, Borric and
> >Erland.  Have I missed out another book?  Someone please help!!
> >Hope everyone has a good New Years.
> >
> >Jon
> >
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
> http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
>
>

Thanks
Darragh
-=-=
www.iamtheporkfireman.com
[Email]: s356179@student.uq.edu.au [ICQ]: 114283262



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Being that I was downunder, seeing in the new year upside down wasn't too
bad at all - or was that the port i was drinking all night? anyway to all a
happy new year.

P.S. Now I have to go about refilling my port keg up again... 14 litres....
my head.....  Oh well should be matured enough to drink by the time Ray
does his next tour downunder :)

Regards,

Brad




Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com> on 01/01/2002 04:28:35

Please respond to FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>
>To:   fEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
>cc:    (bcc: Brad A Krahe/HCS)
>Subject:  2002
>
>
>
>
>It's already started Downunder, so as we bid goodbye to 2001, I want to
>wish everyone on the list the safest and healthiest of New Years.
>
>May 2002 be the best year so far in your life and the worst of all to
>follow after.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
>stupidity.
>

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Bob Montgomery <dante@kingcon.com> writes
>I had a sneaking suspicion that was your ID, John <G> I actually didn't get
>around to signing up for list until around Christmas, so I probably missed
>the notice.
>
>Glad you didn't take my post the wrong way.

Nah I have no problems here :)  Only a divorce to pay for etc.  etc. 
.....<G>
> I was more curious about Ray's
>thoughts on selling what I would consider non-standard stuff, but it seems
>he's as laid back about that as he is about posting, which is so refreshing
>:) The toothbrush comment was definately meant as lighthearted... glad you
>took it that way :)
>
>Honestly John, if I had even the $600 to spare, I'd probably pick it up and
>give it as a gift to my best friend, whose also a mad RF fan (who incidently
>just got me 1st editions of Faerie Tale, DoE and SoE for Christmas... now
>THAT'S a best friend, eh? <G>). But for now I'll have to stick to completing
>my hardcover collections and getting gifts for friends :)

The most I have paid for a book is in the $xxxx category, but I don't' 
do that often

I have been giving books to close friends for some time too. One now has 
all of the books except the Riftwar Saga in 1st Edition HB but only a 
BCE Magician

Another friend , the one I mention I also gave a Magician HB to, they 
are enjoying it too
>
>Have a great NY's John. All the best in the coming year. An interesting
>aside: our friends are assembling to celebrate the new year, and out of the
>20 people showing up, about a dozen of them are hardcore RF fans... not a
>bad ratio, eh? Especially for this area, which is northern Vermont... hey
>Ray, how about a book signing up here? <G> I'll swing the wine!
>
>Anyhoo, take care everyone!
>
>Bob

Happy NY to all
-- 
John

john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.

Raymond E Feist Ring
http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm



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*** EOOH ***
From: "Jason Martin" <res0b95g@verizon.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: BTW, just saw on eBay...
Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2002 00:31:51 -0800
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

John, can I be your new BEST Friend? =)  Just kidding.  I have given out New
Copies of Ray's books, but never my collectibles.  Nor will I ever probably.
Though I guess it depends on who wanted one and for what reason...

Jason


"Too much knowlege never makes for simple decisions."
                           Ghanima- Children of Dune
----- Original Message -----
From: "John" <john@crydee.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Monday, December 31, 2001 4:43 PM
Subject: Re: BTW, just saw on eBay...


> Bob Montgomery <dante@kingcon.com> writes
> >I had a sneaking suspicion that was your ID, John <G> I actually didn't get
> >around to signing up for list until around Christmas, so I probably missed
> >the notice.
> >
> >Glad you didn't take my post the wrong way.
>
> Nah I have no problems here :)  Only a divorce to pay for etc.  etc.
> .....<G>
> > I was more curious about Ray's
> >thoughts on selling what I would consider non-standard stuff, but it seems
> >he's as laid back about that as he is about posting, which is so refreshing
> >:) The toothbrush comment was definately meant as lighthearted... glad you
> >took it that way :)
> >
> >Honestly John, if I had even the $600 to spare, I'd probably pick it up and
> >give it as a gift to my best friend, whose also a mad RF fan (who incidently
> >just got me 1st editions of Faerie Tale, DoE and SoE for Christmas... now
> >THAT'S a best friend, eh? <G>). But for now I'll have to stick to completing
> >my hardcover collections and getting gifts for friends :)
>
> The most I have paid for a book is in the $xxxx category, but I don't'
> do that often
>
> I have been giving books to close friends for some time too. One now has
> all of the books except the Riftwar Saga in 1st Edition HB but only a
> BCE Magician
>
> Another friend , the one I mention I also gave a Magician HB to, they
> are enjoying it too
> >
> >Have a great NY's John. All the best in the coming year. An interesting
> >aside: our friends are assembling to celebrate the new year, and out of the
> >20 people showing up, about a dozen of them are hardcore RF fans... not a
> >bad ratio, eh? Especially for this area, which is northern Vermont... hey
> >Ray, how about a book signing up here? <G> I'll swing the wine!
> >
> >Anyhoo, take care everyone!
> >
> >Bob
>
> Happy NY to all
> --
> John
>
> john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
> http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.
>
> Raymond E Feist Ring
> http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm
>



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Subject: Happy New Year
Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2002 00:34:41 -0800
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Jason Martin" <res0b95g@verizon.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Happy New Year
Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2002 00:34:41 -0800
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Well I hope everyone has a happy new year.  Some of you have had a whole day
of it already and others are just starting their year off.  I hope we have a
great year, and each one to come even better.

Jason

"Too much knowlege never makes for simple decisions."
                           Ghanima- Children of Dune



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"A witty saying proves nothing"

                                        - Voltaire

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Subject: Thought Youd like to know, Ray..
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Nevyn" <alien4@wasp.net.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Thought Youd like to know, Ray..
Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2002 23:43:52 +0800
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Ray,

Just discovered pirated copies of several of your novels available in
E-book format on several file-sharing servers. Namely, DotE, SotE, MotE,
SoaDQ, RoaMP,RoaDK and SoaBK, havent seen Magician or any of the riftwar
series or any of the latest ones.

Just thought you'd like to know ... ?

Nevyn

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Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2002 08:34:46 -0800
Subject: Re: Thought Youd like to know, Ray..
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2002 08:34:46 -0800
Subject: Re: Thought Youd like to know, Ray..
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On Tuesday, January 1, 2002, at 07:43 AM, Nevyn wrote:

> Ray,
>  
> Just discovered pirated copies of several of your novels available in 
> E-book format on several file-sharing servers. Namely, DotE, SotE, 
> MotE, SoaDQ, RoaMP,RoaDK and SoaBK, havent seen Magician or any of the 
> riftwar series or any of the latest ones.
>  
> Just thought you'd like to know ... ?
>  
> Nevyn
>
>

Thanks, but there's nothing I can do about it.  All I can do is bitch 
and then some jerk will try to argue with me about it being "free 
publicity," or the "right of the people," or some other selfish logic to 
justify them stealing other people's creations.  Anyone who pirates 
anything, music, software, video, books, etc. is a thief, but you should 
hear the arguments they use to rationalize their "right" to steal.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.

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From: Barry Ruck <bruck@peterswoodharlow.freeserve.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Thought Youd like to know, Ray..
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2002 17:39:21 +0000
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Barry Ruck <bruck@peterswoodharlow.freeserve.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Thought Youd like to know, Ray..
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Once Upon a Time ( 08:34:46 Tue, 1 Jan 2002 actually ) 
in !FEISTFANS-L, 
Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com> sharpened a new quill and wrote
...

>
>On Tuesday, January 1, 2002, at 07:43 AM, Nevyn wrote:
>
>
>Ray,
> 
>Just discovered pirated copies of several of your novels available in E-book 
>format on several file-sharing servers. Namely, DotE, SotE, MotE, SoaDQ, 
>RoaMP,RoaDK and SoaBK, havent seen Magician or any of the riftwar series or any 
>of the latest ones.
> 
>Just thought you'd like to know ... ?
> 
>Nevyn
>
>
>
>Thanks, but there's nothing I can do about it.  All I can do is bitch and then 
>some jerk will try to argue with me about it being "free publicity," or the 
>"right of the people," or some other selfish logic to justify them stealing 
>other people's creations.  Anyone who pirates anything, music, software, video, 
>books, etc. is a thief, but you should hear the arguments they use to 
>rationalize their "right" to steal.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
>stupidity.

Surely your publisher would want to take action ? After all, aren't they
supposed to look after their interests ??

-- 

Reality is what you bump into in the dark. - Raymond E. Feist


Barry Ruck - Harlow, Essex. UK.



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Subject: Re: Thought Youd like to know, Ray..
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2002 10:57:38 -0800
Subject: Re: Thought Youd like to know, Ray..
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Tuesday, January 1, 2002, at 09:39 AM, Barry Ruck wrote:

> Once Upon a Time ( 08:34:46 Tue, 1 Jan 2002 actually )
> in !FEISTFANS-L,
> Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com> sharpened a new quill and wrote
> ...
>
>>
>> On Tuesday, January 1, 2002, at 07:43 AM, Nevyn wrote:
>>
>>
>> Ray,
>>  
>> Just discovered pirated copies of several of your novels available in 
>> E-book
>> format on several file-sharing servers. Namely, DotE, SotE, MotE, 
>> SoaDQ,
>> RoaMP,RoaDK and SoaBK, havent seen Magician or any of the riftwar 
>> series or any
>> of the latest ones.
>>  
>> Just thought you'd like to know ... ?
>>  
>> Nevyn
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks, but there's nothing I can do about it.  All I can do is bitch 
>> and then
>> some jerk will try to argue with me about it being "free publicity," 
>> or the
>> "right of the people," or some other selfish logic to justify them 
>> stealing
>> other people's creations.  Anyone who pirates anything, music, 
>> software, video,
>> books, etc. is a thief, but you should hear the arguments they use to
>> rationalize their "right" to steal.
>>
>> Best, R.E.F.
>> ----
>>
>> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
>> stupidity.
>
> Surely your publisher would want to take action ? After all, aren't they
> supposed to look after their interests ??
>
> --
>
> Reality is what you bump into in the dark. - Raymond E. Feist
>
>
> Barry Ruck - Harlow, Essex. UK.
>
>
>

In theory. But pirate sites and news groups are almost impossible to 
control.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Subject: Re: Thought Youd like to know, Ray..
References: <000c01c192db$1dd4e830$0300a8c0@shak>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2002 19:05:01 +0000
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From: John <john@crydee.com>
Subject: Re: Thought Youd like to know, Ray..
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Barry Ruck <bruck@peterswoodharlow.freeserve.co.uk> writes
>Surely your publisher would want to take action ? After all, aren't they
>supposed to look after their interests ??
>

Basically there is nothing anyone can do. The books are out there, and 
the nature of the beast is that they will be distributed, as there is 
always someone wanting them for nothing. If we could get everyone to 
ignore them, then they may go away, but I think there is little chance 
of that in this day and age

-- 
John

john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.

Raymond E Feist Ring
http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 01 Jan 2002 21:00:07 +0100
From: Caranorn Aglaredhel <caranorn@cmdnet.lu>
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Subject: Re: Thought Youd like to know, Ray..
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I think I'll make this my first post on this list.

Generally, I'd say not to worry about pirates of the sort (but then I 
don't live from selling material that might be pirated). I just can't 
imagine anyone who really loves a book to just read it in e-format. The 
pleasure of books is that you can hold them in your hands and sit down 
somewhere quietly and spend a few hours reading it. I have used illegal 
copies of various things (music, videoes, software, even books) before, 
but any time I really liked the copy, I went and bought myself a copy 
(or at least bought a follow on product). Pirate copies are ideal for 
people to get a taste of a product and then decide to buy.

On the other hand, I am obviously totally opposed to any commercial 
copying, and would never do that myself (either pay for such a copy, or 
copy it for money myself).

Marc aka Caran...

P.S.: I wonder whether I am a Feist-fan now, I would never even consider 
buying hardcovers of Ray's old books as seems to be common on this list. 
I much prefer my old paperbacks. On the other hand I have bought most 
recent books in hardcover just to lay my hands on them earlier.

John wrote:

> Barry Ruck <bruck@peterswoodharlow.freeserve.co.uk> writes
> 
>> Surely your publisher would want to take action ? After all, aren't they
>> supposed to look after their interests ??
>> 
> 
> Basically there is nothing anyone can do. The books are out there, and 
> the nature of the beast is that they will be distributed, as there is 
> always someone wanting them for nothing. If we could get everyone to 
> ignore them, then they may go away, but I think there is little chance 
> of that in this day and age
> 



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From: "Rob K" <feistfan@rogers.com>
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Subject: RE: Thought Youd like to know, Ray..
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Rob K" <feistfan@rogers.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Thought Youd like to know, Ray..
Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2002 16:42:19 -0500
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I heard that if you have a music CD (legally bought) you can back it up
on your computer (probably in mp3 format) without breaking any laws.  Is
this also true for books?  If I buy a book, can I back it up on my
computer?

Thanks, Rob K.


>
>Thanks, but there's nothing I can do about it. All I can do is bitch and
>then some jerk will try to argue with me about it being "free
>publicity," or the "right of the people," or some other selfish logic to
>justify them stealing other people's creations. Anyone who pirates
>anything, music, software, video, books, etc. is a thief, but you should
>hear the arguments they use to rationalize their "right" to steal.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
>stupidity.

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Ray,

Not to stir up the muck, but I thought I remember you saying that you
have to "vigorously" defend your rights.  How does this format differ
other than it's a quagmire :(.

Thanks.
James


On Tue, 1 Jan 2002, Raymond Feist wrote:

>
> On Tuesday, January 1, 2002, at 07:43 AM, Nevyn wrote:
>
> > Ray,
> >
> > Just discovered pirated copies of several of your novels available in
> > E-book format on several file-sharing servers. Namely, DotE, SotE,
> > MotE, SoaDQ, RoaMP,RoaDK and SoaBK, havent seen Magician or any of the
> > riftwar series or any of the latest ones.
> >
> > Just thought you'd like to know ... ?
> >
> > Nevyn
> >
> >
>
> Thanks, but there's nothing I can do about it.  All I can do is bitch
> and then some jerk will try to argue with me about it being "free
> publicity," or the "right of the people," or some other selfish logic to
> justify them stealing other people's creations.  Anyone who pirates
> anything, music, software, video, books, etc. is a thief, but you should
> hear the arguments they use to rationalize their "right" to steal.
>
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
>
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
> stupidity.
>



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Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2002 20:21:52 EST
Subject: Re: Pirate Sites
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*** EOOH ***
From: SonOfTheTao@aol.com
Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2002 20:21:52 EST
Subject: Re: Pirate Sites
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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In a message dated 1/1/02 2:10:11 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
raymond@bittersea.com writes:


> 
> In theory. But pirate sites and news groups are almost impossible to 
> control.
> 
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
> 

       It's even tougher when sites like Kazaa aren't "grounded" in the U.S.  
That makes our laws and rules regarding copyrights even tougher to enforce.

       Mike

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From: "Tan, Liwen" <liwen.tan@ic.ac.uk>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" (FEISTFANS-L) <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Pirate Sites {off topic}
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 01:39:00 -0000 
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Tan, Liwen" <liwen.tan@ic.ac.uk>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" (FEISTFANS-L) <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Pirate Sites {off topic}
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 01:39:00 -0000 
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it would be pertinent in examining why pirate sites are so successful. I
wouldn't download a book/ novel because it's too hard to read it all off the
screen and it's hardly portable... ahem, no reading in the facilities if u
know what I mean.

Music is different. With the new brand of manufactured by labels in a bid to
minimise the risks of band- breaks etc, the quality and avaliability of
quality music as gone downhill.

Hence most of the songs downloaded are of better bands whose music is more
difficult to get/ more expensive.

And I agree that de-centralised sites do pose problems, one of the reasons
why p2p software is now de-centralised. Napster trials didn't serve to
stifle the uprising against big labels. It fueled it by adding publicity.

Terence




-----Original Message-----
>From: SonOfTheTao@aol.com
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Sent: 1/2/2002 1:21 AM
>Subject: Re: Pirate Sites
>
>In a message dated 1/1/02 2:10:11 PM Eastern Standard Time,
>raymond@bittersea.com writes: 
>
>>
>>In theory. But pirate sites and news groups are almost impossible to 
>>control. 
>>
>>Best, R.E.F. 
>>---- 
>>
>
>      It's even tougher when sites like Kazaa aren't "grounded" in the
>U.S.  That makes our laws and rules regarding copyrights even tougher to
>enforce. 
>
>      Mike
>
>

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Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2002 18:00:42 -0800
Subject: Re: Thought Youd like to know, Ray..
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2002 18:00:42 -0800
Subject: Re: Thought Youd like to know, Ray..
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Tuesday, January 1, 2002, at 01:42 PM, Rob K wrote:

> I heard that if you have a music CD (legally bought) you can back it up
> on your computer (probably in mp3 format) without breaking any laws.  Is
> this also true for books?  If I buy a book, can I back it up on my
> computer?
>
>

That's a legacy from the Sony decision.  You can make one archival 
backup of just about anything for your own personal use; as soon as you 
make more than one or give the backup to another, you're outside the 
scope of the decision.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Subject: Re: Thought Youd like to know, Ray..
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2002 18:01:59 -0800
Subject: Re: Thought Youd like to know, Ray..
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Tuesday, January 1, 2002, at 02:28 PM, James L. Ng wrote:

> Ray,
>
> Not to stir up the muck, but I thought I remember you saying that you
> have to "vigorously" defend your rights.  How does this format differ
> other than it's a quagmire :(.
>

I vigorously defend that which I have a chance of winning, say someone 
who does an unlicensed game on the internet.  Someone who's brain dead 
enough to stand around scanning in my text and then uploading it is not 
someone I can effectively stop.  Besides, there's also very little loss 
vs. time involved in that.  An internet game could cost me tens of 
thousands, on the other hand.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Barker" <heechee@softhome.net>
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----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Raymond Feist" <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <fEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2002 4:28 AM
Subject: 2002


> It's already started Downunder, so as we bid goodbye to 2001, I want to 
> wish everyone on the list the safest and healthiest of New Years.
> 
> May 2002 be the best year so far in your life and the worst of all to 
> follow after.

Ditto from here.

Good party, that...

Cheers,
James



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Subject: OT: Planning a trip
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 18:06:28 +1100
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Allan Mills" <amills1@bigpond.net.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: OT: Planning a trip
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 18:06:28 +1100
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 I'm planning a vacation to the USA for about 3-4 weeks. My rough plan is to
stay in Anaheim and visit Los Vegas, DisneyLand and Universal Studios.
That's for a start, can anybody else suggest "must see" places in the USA?
Also for Australian residents, can anybody suggest a good way of organising
accomodation?

 Allan



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Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2002 07:58:24 +0200
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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Kenneth Jones <killkenny@thos.co.za>
Subject: Re: UK Tour
In-Reply-To: <A0576D92-FE13-11D5-83DC-003065A8A644@bittersea.com>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2002 07:58:24 +0200
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Kenneth Jones <killkenny@thos.co.za>
Subject: Re: UK Tour
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Oh well, That SUX. What if I pay for it {:-)

At 09:27 AM 12/31/01 -0800, you wrote:

>On Sunday, December 30, 2001, at 11:05 PM, Kenneth Jones wrote:
>
>>
>>What about South Africa ever planing on coming here?
>
>It's under discussion.  The problem is in terms of world-wide sales, SA is 
>a very tiny market, and physically isolated enough that HarperCollins 
>might not see it as cost beneficial to send me there.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
>stupidity.
>>



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Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 11:39:31 -0800
Subject: Re: OT: Planning a trip
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 11:39:31 -0800
Subject: Re: OT: Planning a trip
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Tuesday, January 1, 2002, at 11:06 PM, Allan Mills wrote:

>  I'm planning a vacation to the USA for about 3-4 weeks. My rough plan 
> is to
> stay in Anaheim and visit Los Vegas, DisneyLand and Universal Studios.
> That's for a start, can anybody else suggest "must see" places in the 
> USA?
> Also for Australian residents, can anybody suggest a good way of 
> organising
> accomodation?
>
>  Allan
>
>
>
>

Las Vegas, Disneyland, and Universal Studio are all relatively close (in 
US terms, i.e. Vegas is a 1 hour plane flight from LA, while Disneyland 
and Universal are a couple of hour's drive apart).

How far do you want to roam?  If you're staying in the West, I'd suggest 
you spend a few days to a week up in the San Francisco Bay area, maybe 
even a day or two up in the wine country of Napa and Sonoma.

San Diego, a 2 hour drive south of L.A. has a lot to offer with a world 
class Zoo, Sea World, good food, and of course, you can pop across the 
border into Mexico (remember, if you do, take your passport and any 
visas you have with you).

As for accommodations, I suggest you start on-line and check out the 
various chains of hotels and motels (and you can narrow searches down by 
cost).

My suggestions for a starter.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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From: KARL SIMONIAN <karlsimonian@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: OT: Planning a trip
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 20:35:35 -0800 (PST)
From: KARL SIMONIAN <karlsimonian@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: OT: Planning a trip
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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--- Allan Mills <amills1@bigpond.net.au> wrote:
>  I'm planning a vacation to the USA for about 3-4
> weeks. My rough plan is to
> stay in Anaheim and visit Los Vegas, DisneyLand and
> Universal Studios.
> That's for a start, can anybody else suggest "must
> see" places in the USA?
> Also for Australian residents, can anybody suggest a
> good way of organising
> accomodation?
> 
>  Allan
> 

Hey Allan,

Like Ray said, it depends on how far you want to
travel. 
California is practically a country unto itself.  You
can take your pick of theme parks versus natural
wonders, depends on what kind of stuff you want to
see.
I would recommend a mix of the two.

Of course you'll be renting a car, right?

I would also tell you that since you said you are
going to Las Vegas, hotels in LV are extremely
reasonable when compared to L.A., San Diego or worse
yet, northern California.  
You can stay in a luxury resort in Vegas for as low as
$49 US, depending on what time of year you are
visiting. More typically, LV high end rooms can be
found for $99 to $199 almost any time of year. 
If you're lucky, you can find a dump in San Diego for
under $100, MAYBE.
 If you want to email me off-list, I can give you my
phone number, in case you run into any problems while
you're here. I live about 20 minutes south of
Disneyland and I would be glad to offer you any
assistance that I can.

Karl

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send your FREE holiday greetings online!
http://greetings.yahoo.com



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From: "Natalie Henderson" <natz101@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re: Happy Birthday Ray
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*** EOOH ***
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I'm just catching up on emails after having a long holiday so here is a
belated happy birthday to you Ray and I hope everyone had a good Christmas
and New Year! :)

Natalie


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.



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From: "Andrew Scott" <a.sc0tt@attbi.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Honoured Enemy on sale
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 23:04:11 -0800
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Andrew Scott" <a.sc0tt@attbi.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Honoured Enemy on sale
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 23:04:11 -0800
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Just thought some of you might want to know Honoured Enemy is selling for
40% off on amazon.co.uk right now. Thats $22.69 at the current conversion
rate after shipping to the US

*goes and grabs credit card*



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Subject: Re: Honoured Enemy on sale
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 17:28:35 +1000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "A Irving" <aignome@dingoblue.net.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Honoured Enemy on sale
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 17:28:35 +1000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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I saw Honoured Enemy at a book sale at a local bookstore for $14.95
australian, :) I am not sure if it is still there, but adding shipping to
that would still be cheaper than $22.69 US i believe.
----- Original Message -----
From: Andrew Scott <a.sc0tt@attbi.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Friday, January 04, 2002 5:04 PM
Subject: Honoured Enemy on sale


> Just thought some of you might want to know Honoured Enemy is selling for
> 40% off on amazon.co.uk right now. Thats $22.69 at the current conversion
> rate after shipping to the US
>
> *goes and grabs credit card*
>



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Subject: Re: Honoured Enemy on sale
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 23:43:09 -0800
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Andrew Scott" <a.sc0tt@attbi.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Honoured Enemy on sale
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 23:43:09 -0800
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you have to take into account though over $7 of the price i quoted is
shipping to the US.

----- Original Message -----
From: "A Irving" <aignome@dingoblue.net.au>
> I saw Honoured Enemy at a book sale at a local bookstore for $14.95
> australian, :) I am not sure if it is still there, but adding shipping to
> that would still be cheaper than $22.69 US i believe.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Andrew Scott <a.sc0tt@attbi.com>
>
> > Just thought some of you might want to know Honoured Enemy is selling for
> > 40% off on amazon.co.uk right now. Thats $22.69 at the current conversion
> > rate after shipping to the US
> >
> > *goes and grabs credit card*
> >
>



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Subject: Re: Thought Youd like to know, Ray..
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 01:49:03 +1100
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Andy Hogan" <andyhogan@dcsi.net.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Thought Youd like to know, Ray..
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 01:49:03 +1100
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> >> Thanks, but there's nothing I can do about it.  All I can do is bitch
> >> and then
> >> some jerk will try to argue with me about it being "free publicity,"
> >> or the
> >> "right of the people," or some other selfish logic to justify them
> >> stealing
> >> other people's creations.


*Ponders the possibility of some smart person creating a virus that queries
the programs like Kaza etc.., finds your copywrited work and then works on
sending a virus/deleting stuff/screwing around with the persons computer
somehow...
Surely, with the number of security bugs in ms software its gotta be a
possibility...

?



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2002 09:03:20 +1100
From: "Jason Mulligan" <sulimo@bigpond.net.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Thought Youd like to know, Ray..
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On 8/01/1999 at 01:49 AM Andy Hogan wrote:

>> >> Thanks, but there's nothing I can do about it.  All I can do is bitch
>> >> and then
>> >> some jerk will try to argue with me about it being "free publicity,"
>> >> or the
>> >> "right of the people," or some other selfish logic to justify them
>> >> stealing
>> >> other people's creations.
>
>
>*Ponders the possibility of some smart person creating a virus that queries
>the programs like Kaza etc.., finds your copywrited work and then works on
>sending a virus/deleting stuff/screwing around with the persons computer
>somehow...
>Surely, with the number of security bugs in ms software its gotta be a
>possibility...

Oh yeah. Advocating cyber-terrorism. Now theres a plan Ray's lawyers
would support.

c



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*** EOOH ***
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For all you Feist fans who are also D&D gamers. What level of Wizard do you 
suppose he is in D&D terms after the Serpent war series? Current 3rd edition 
books only go to 20th level. I would think he would be higher than that.

adieu

Jimmy

_________________________________________________________________
Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
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Subject: Re: Pondering Pug, how tough
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From: RBlackley@aol.com
Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2002 20:17:11 EST
Subject: Re: Pondering Pug, how tough
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
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yeah most positively
re:

>For all you Feist fans who are also D&D gamers. What level of Wizard do you 
> suppose he is in D&D terms after the Serpent war series? Current 3rd edition 
> books only go to 20th level. I would think he would be higher than that.
>
> adieu
>
> Jimmy

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Subject: Re: Pondering Pug, how tough
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Pondering Pug, how tough
Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2002 02:14:22 -0600
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    Pug wouldn't be translated into D&D terms, he would be
translated back into the original Midkemia stats, which from my
understanding are radically different than Dungeons and Dragons
(even the new version which I still don't like).  This means he is
(in D&D terms), level: N/A.

----- Original Message -----
From: <RBlackley@aol.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Friday, January 04, 2002 7:17 PM
Subject: Re: Pondering Pug, how tough


> yeah most positively
> re:
>
> For all you Feist fans who are also D&D gamers. What level of Wizard do you
>  suppose he is in D&D terms after the Serpent war series? Current 3rd edition
>  books only go to 20th level. I would think he would be higher than that.
>
>  adieu
>
>  Jimmy
>



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Subject: Re: Thought Youd like to know, Ray..
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1999 01:48:44 +1100
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From: "Andy Hogan" <andyhogan@dcsi.net.au>
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Subject: Re: Thought Youd like to know, Ray..
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1999 01:48:44 +1100
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> Oh yeah. Advocating cyber-terrorism. Now theres a plan Ray's lawyers would
> support.


Well, not that I'd suggest that Ray, or his Lawers set it up and do it.
Perhaps some smart person could write a program to do it because they love
Ray's work so much? Just adding the possibility to make it work on any type
of copywrited work would be cool cause then it wouldn't be directly linked
to any one publisher/writer/whoever.

Just a thought anyway...Anyone got any good programming skills out there?

`Andy



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From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Pondering Pug, how tough
Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2002 09:55:28 -0500
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From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Pondering Pug, how tough
Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2002 09:55:28 -0500
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I know it would be a forced fit in the D&D universe, but not many people 
play the original out of print Midkemia Press game, so I was wondering what 
everyone (who plays D&D) thought would be the most logical D&D level. 
Irealize the game systems are very different, especially in the magic 
system.

Adieu

Jimmy

>From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
>Subject: Re: Pondering Pug, how tough
>Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2002 02:14:22 -0600
>
>     Pug wouldn't be translated into D&D terms, he would be
>translated back into the original Midkemia stats, which from my
>understanding are radically different than Dungeons and Dragons
>(even the new version which I still don't like).  This means he is
>(in D&D terms), level: N/A.
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <RBlackley@aol.com>
>To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
>Sent: Friday, January 04, 2002 7:17 PM
>Subject: Re: Pondering Pug, how tough
>
>
> > yeah most positively
> > re:
> >
> > For all you Feist fans who are also D&D gamers. What level of
>Wizard do you
> >  suppose he is in D&D terms after the Serpent war series? Current
>3rd edition
> >  books only go to 20th level. I would think he would be higher
>than that.
> >
> >  adieu
> >
> >  Jimmy
> >
>


_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com



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From: Caranorn Aglaredhel <caranorn@cmdnet.lu>
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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Pondering Pug, how tough
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I never played D&D or AD&D. But on principle, Pug would be an NPC, not 
rigidly held by the rules. At least that's my feeling.

In GSIII terms (the online rpg I play, or rather used to play), he would 
be an NPC of some 200 levels (but edited to look much younger). 
(Actually someone used to play a character by the name of Pug for a 
while, was a Milamber too, but few Midkemian names seem to last in 
Elanthia, unlike Mid Earth ones it seems).

Marc aka Caran...

P.S.: And no, my name is neither Midkemian nor Mid Earth, rather it has 
Mid Earth origins like many of Ray's.

James Young wrote:

>     Pug wouldn't be translated into D&D terms, he would be
> translated back into the original Midkemia stats, which from my
> understanding are radically different than Dungeons and Dragons
> (even the new version which I still don't like).  This means he is
> (in D&D terms), level: N/A.
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <RBlackley@aol.com> <mailto:RBlackley@aol.com>
> To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> <mailto:FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> Sent: Friday, January 04, 2002 7:17 PM
> Subject: Re: Pondering Pug, how tough
> 
> 
>> yeah most positively
>> re:
>> 
>> For all you Feist fans who are also D&D gamers. What level of
> 
> Wizard do you
> 
>>  suppose he is in D&D terms after the Serpent war series? Current
> 
> 3rd edition
> 
>>  books only go to 20th level. I would think he would be higher
> 
> than that.
> 
>>  adieu
>> 
>>  Jimmy
>> 

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Subject: Re: Thought Youd like to know, Ray..
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2002 02:45:34 +1100
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From: "James Barker" <heechee@softhome.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Thought Youd like to know, Ray..
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2002 02:45:34 +1100
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Andy Hogan" <andyhogan@dcsi.net.au>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Saturday, January 09, 1999 1:48 AM
Subject: Re: Thought Youd like to know, Ray..



> Well, not that I'd suggest that Ray, or his Lawers set it up and do it.
> Perhaps some smart person could write a program to do it because they love
> Ray's work so much? Just adding the possibility to make it work on any type
> of copywrited work would be cool cause then it wouldn't be directly linked
> to any one publisher/writer/whoever.
>
> Just a thought anyway...Anyone got any good programming skills out there?
>
> `Andy
>

OK, just to get rid of this whole stupid idea once and for all... If you
don't want to read a flame, stop now.

<flame>

Didn't Mummy ever teach you that two wrongs don't make a right? Or have you
not yet progressed beyond the petty tit-for-tat mentality of a primary
school student?

It is painfully obvious that you really don't know what you're talking
about.

There are many technical and moral issues which go along with your brilliant
idea. I'll just cover a few of them. First of all, go and try a search on
KaZaA (note spelling: two A's) for Raymond E. Feist - Magician, or any
permutation thereof. If you find anything, then I'm surprised. Now go and
try any other of a myriad of peer-to-peer file-sharing clients. Your result
will be pretty similar. Zip.
    Let's assume that, against the odds, you find some useful idiot who will
write you a virus (I'll use the basic term, although your program could be a
worm, trojan horse, etc.). How do you plan on positively identifying copies
of Ray's work on a remote system? Simply programming this virus to look for
file names which include titles of books, or actually trawling through files
looking for verbatim similarities to Ray's work? To do the latter, the virus
would have to have some of Ray's work coded in -- quite possibly illegal in
it's own right (ignoring the fact that almost any kind of malignant program
is illegal anyway). The former is full of more holes than a net. To take a
simplistic example, supposing someone is writing a novel, entitled "Magician
Ascending" or something. Your virus pops along, says "Oh look, it's got
'Magician' in the filename. Looks like we've found a pirate," and procedes
to do something nasty to the system.
    And once you've found a file which you have somehow identified to be a
copy of one of Ray's books (or indeed, any copyrighted material, as you
suggest -- if you can work out how to do that, then I'm sure the police
would love to hear from you), what do you plan to do with it? Delete it, and
take the risk of erasing someone's invaluable and quite innocent data, for
reasons mentioned above? Replace it with a file saying "Oops. We've both
broken the law, but you did it first!"? Format the poor sod's HD? Nice work.

Lastly, if you want to be an internet vigilante, have the courage to do it
yourself, and take responsibility. Go and learn how to program in a useful
language, and write your virus. Sign your name to it, and release it into
the electronic ether. And then wait for the men in dark coats.

</flame>

Cheers,
James

P.S. It's three o'clock in the morning, so there are probably holes in my
argument.



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From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Pondering Pug, how tough
Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2002 11:37:50 -0500
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From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Pondering Pug, how tough
Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2002 11:37:50 -0500
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Greetings Caranorn.
I am unfamilar with GSIII. To put it in perspective, what is the highest a 
PC can advance in GSIII.

Adieu

Jimmy

>From: Caranorn Aglaredhel <caranorn@cmdnet.lu>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
>Subject: Re: Pondering Pug, how tough
>Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2002 16:08:13 +0100
>
>I never played D&D or AD&D. But on principle, Pug would be an NPC, not
>rigidly held by the rules. At least that's my feeling.
>
>In GSIII terms (the online rpg I play, or rather used to play), he would
>be an NPC of some 200 levels (but edited to look much younger).
>(Actually someone used to play a character by the name of Pug for a
>while, was a Milamber too, but few Midkemian names seem to last in
>Elanthia, unlike Mid Earth ones it seems).
>
>Marc aka Caran...
>
>P.S.: And no, my name is neither Midkemian nor Mid Earth, rather it has
>Mid Earth origins like many of Ray's.
>
>James Young wrote:
>
>>     Pug wouldn't be translated into D&D terms, he would be
>>translated back into the original Midkemia stats, which from my
>>understanding are radically different than Dungeons and Dragons
>>(even the new version which I still don't like).  This means he is
>>(in D&D terms), level: N/A.
>>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: <RBlackley@aol.com> <mailto:RBlackley@aol.com>
>>To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> 
>><mailto:FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
>>Sent: Friday, January 04, 2002 7:17 PM
>>Subject: Re: Pondering Pug, how tough
>>
>>
>>>yeah most positively
>>>re:
>>>
>>>For all you Feist fans who are also D&D gamers. What level of
>>
>>Wizard do you
>>
>>>  suppose he is in D&D terms after the Serpent war series? Current
>>
>>3rd edition
>>
>>>  books only go to 20th level. I would think he would be higher
>>
>>than that.
>>
>>>  adieu
>>>
>>>  Jimmy
>>>


_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2002 18:08:42 +0100
From: Caranorn Aglaredhel <caranorn@cmdnet.lu>
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Organization: House Phoenix
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; N; PPC; fr-FR; m18) Gecko/20010131 Netscape6/6.01
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Pondering Pug, how tough
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Well, I have never gone beyond 39, some friends of mine are around 150 I 
expect. A level cap has been put in recently (as there was little sense 
having anyone beyond certain levels especially as they were breaking the 
game). So I'd expect the highest current character is somewhere between 
150 and 175. But critters and NPC's have been into the mid 250's I 
expect (never saw them myself as even my strongest character could not 
be stay around that kind of power for more then 5 seconds). Level 50 by 
the way was once called legendary to illustrate what the system was 
intended for. Anything above level 200 should be considered a demi god 
at least. (power progressing flattens beyond level 40 or thereabouts, 
there aren't even any new spells beyond level 50 etc.)

Marc aka Caran...

P.S.: The mention of looking much younger was by the way intended 
reflect the fact that most characters when looked at (it's text based) 
appear to be about 20 to 40 years older then their level. My oldest 
character thereby looks in his 60's or 70's iirc. The oldest I've seen 
looked in their 200's (rather silly having 200 year old human warriors 
about, the whole game was never intended for those levels, but if they 
like power hunting and do not disturb others greatly I always felt it 
was their own business). Pug off course should not look 250ish (GM's and 
NPC generally modify all the automatic text governing descriptions, to 
the point that they can turn into anything).

James Silva wrote:

> Greetings Caranorn.
> I am unfamilar with GSIII. To put it in perspective, what is the 
> highest a PC can advance in GSIII.
> 
> Adieu
> 
> Jimmy
> 
>> From: Caranorn Aglaredhel <caranorn@cmdnet.lu>
>> Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
>> Subject: Re: Pondering Pug, how tough
>> Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2002 16:08:13 +0100
>> 
>> I never played D&D or AD&D. But on principle, Pug would be an NPC, not
>> rigidly held by the rules. At least that's my feeling.
>> 
>> In GSIII terms (the online rpg I play, or rather used to play), he would
>> be an NPC of some 200 levels (but edited to look much younger).
>> (Actually someone used to play a character by the name of Pug for a
>> while, was a Milamber too, but few Midkemian names seem to last in
>> Elanthia, unlike Mid Earth ones it seems).
>> 
>> Marc aka Caran...
>> 
>> P.S.: And no, my name is neither Midkemian nor Mid Earth, rather it has
>> Mid Earth origins like many of Ray's.
>> 
>> James Young wrote:
>> 
>>>     Pug wouldn't be translated into D&D terms, he would be
>>> translated back into the original Midkemia stats, which from my
>>> understanding are radically different than Dungeons and Dragons
>>> (even the new version which I still don't like).  This means he is
>>> (in D&D terms), level: N/A.
>>> 
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: <RBlackley@aol.com> <mailto:RBlackley@aol.com>
>>> To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> 
>>> <mailto:FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
>>> Sent: Friday, January 04, 2002 7:17 PM
>>> Subject: Re: Pondering Pug, how tough
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> yeah most positively
>>>> re:
>>>> 
>>>> For all you Feist fans who are also D&D gamers. What level of
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Wizard do you
>>> 
>>>>  suppose he is in D&D terms after the Serpent war series? Current
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 3rd edition
>>> 
>>>>  books only go to 20th level. I would think he would be higher
>>> 
>>> 
>>> than that.
>>> 
>>>>  adieu
>>>> 
>>>>  Jimmy
>>>> 
> 
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
> 
> 
> 
> 



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Subject: Re: Thought Youd like to know, Ray..
References: <6CEAD254-FEE9-11D5-92D0-003065A8A644@bittersea.com> <003b01be3a4c$dfaaf0c0$53a1fea9@mls> <200201050903200563.003E74CF@mail-hub> <001f01be3b15$fe7e61c0$295ffea9@mls>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2002 15:02:24 -0600
From: Bret Robideaux <bretr@alliances.org>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:0.9.4) Gecko/20011019 Netscape6/6.2
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Thought Youd like to know, Ray..
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

*sigh* Let's just finish this conversation now, shall we?

Andy Hogan wrote:

>>Oh yeah. Advocating cyber-terrorism. Now theres a plan Ray's lawyers would
>>
> support.
> 
> 
> Well, not that I'd suggest that Ray, or his Lawers set it up and do it.
> Perhaps some smart person could write a program to do it because they love
> Ray's work so much? Just adding the possibility to make it work on any type
> of copywrited work would be cool cause then it wouldn't be directly linked
> to any one publisher/writer/whoever.
> 
> Just a thought anyway...Anyone got any good programming skills out there?
> 
> `Andy
> 
> 

Me: Yes, there are several people on this list more than capable of 
doing such a thing. Myself included, if you must know (oh, hi Rip, 
didn't see you standing there *grin*).

You: So? Will you do it?

Me: Of course not.

You: Why not? It would help Ray out.

Me: Hmmm, no it wouldn't help Ray out, and in fact it would probably 
quite annoy him to have to waste time talking to FBI agents 
investigating the whole thing.

You: Oh.

Me: And besides, he didn't ask for help. At least, he didn't ask us for 
help. And even if he had, that's not how I'd volunteer (or hire out) my 
services. I've got enough on my plate trying to pay my mortgage, put 
food on the table, keep my children in diapers and Veggie Tale videos. I 
don't need to add dodging the FBI and staying out of jail to the list.

You: Oh.

Me: So any other questions?

You: Probably, but because you're writing this without my input you'd 
have no way of knowing.

Me: True, too true.

OK, smile everybody, that's the limit of my screenplay skills so it's 
pretty obvious no one is going to ask me to write a screenplay for 
Magician :)

Vi syns,
Bret



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Subject: Re: Pondering Pug, how tough
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Pondering Pug, how tough
Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2002 19:53:08 -0600
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

    You could go so far as to point out that in reality 1st, 2nd,
and 3rd editions and the original editions (my oldest set dating
from 1982 prior to 1st edition becoming seriously available, and
that isn't nearly the oldest set out there) are actually pretty
different in and of themselves, with the largest gap being between
the 2nd and 3rd obviously (The translation materials don't work that
well).  The farther apart the span of years the less effectively
they translate to each others.  So now you have to specify what
edition.  To make it worse, what universe and who is running it also
makes a big issue in how strong the character like pug would be.  In
my universes (Still set in 2nd edition) he would just be a bad fit
and besides which he is Ray's anyway so I can't use him even if I
wanted to.  So I don't see the point in trying to translate the
character of Pug.

----- Original Message -----
From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2002 8:55 AM
Subject: Re: Pondering Pug, how tough


> I know it would be a forced fit in the D&D universe, but not many people
> play the original out of print Midkemia Press game, so I was wondering what
> everyone (who plays D&D) thought would be the most logical D&D level.
> Irealize the game systems are very different, especially in the magic
> system.
>
> Adieu
>
> Jimmy



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Subject: Re: Thought Youd like to know, Ray..
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2002 22:52:37 +1100
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Allan Mills" <amills1@bigpond.net.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Thought Youd like to know, Ray..
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2002 22:52:37 +1100
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----- Original Message -----
From: "James Barker" <heechee@softhome.net>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2002 2:45 AM
Subject: Re: Thought Youd like to know, Ray..



>     And once you've found a file which you have somehow identified to be a
> copy of one of Ray's books (or indeed, any copyrighted material, as you
> suggest -- if you can work out how to do that, then I'm sure the police
> would love to hear from you), what do you plan to do with it? Delete it, and
> take the risk of erasing someone's invaluable and quite innocent data, for
> reasons mentioned above? Replace it with a file saying "Oops. We've both
> broken the law, but you did it first!"? Format the poor sod's HD? Nice work.
>

 Not to forget what would happen if the virus/worm found it's way onto Ray's
computer or those of his publisher.

 On a technical note, most viruses operate either subtly or suddenly. A
virus of this type would access your hard disk very noticeably.

 Allan



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From: "Michael Gibson" <gibbyfish@yahoo.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: UK Tour
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2002 14:17:49 -0000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Michael Gibson" <gibbyfish@yahoo.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: UK Tour
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2002 14:17:49 -0000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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> On Saturday, December 29, 2001, at 04:17 PM, Damian Dyer wrote:
>
> > Hello Ray,
> >
> > With the current world political climate and all are you
> > still planning on touring the UK in the coming year?
>
> I should be in the UK/Ireland in early September.  I may have a stop in
> Holland before or after, then on to Oz and NZ.
>
>
> Best, R.E.F.

Hi Ray

Do your publishers have any preferred bookstore here in the UK, or are any fair
game wrt you being sent to them?  Also, are there any preferred cities?  I
remember you going to Birmingham and Cambridge (IIRC) last time around.  I'm
trying to decide if it's worth badgering any of my local stores.

Mike,
Gibfish of the West

"Better to light a candle than to curse the darkness."
Confucius


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com



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Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2002 08:38:07 -0800
Subject: Re: UK Tour
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2002 08:38:07 -0800
Subject: Re: UK Tour
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Sunday, January 6, 2002, at 06:17 AM, Michael Gibson wrote:

>> On Saturday, December 29, 2001, at 04:17 PM, Damian Dyer wrote:
>>
>>> Hello Ray,
>>>
>>> With the current world political climate and all are you
>>> still planning on touring the UK in the coming year?
>>
>> I should be in the UK/Ireland in early September.  I may have a stop in
>> Holland before or after, then on to Oz and NZ.
>>
>>
>> Best, R.E.F.
>
> Hi Ray
>
> Do your publishers have any preferred bookstore here in the UK, or are 
> any fair
> game wrt you being sent to them?  Also, are there any preferred 
> cities?  I
> remember you going to Birmingham and Cambridge (IIRC) last time 
> around.  I'm
> trying to decide if it's worth badgering any of my local stores.
>
> Mike,
> Gibfish of the West
>
> "Better to light a candle than to curse the darkness."
> Confucius
>
>
> _________________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
>
>
There are some obvious cities, i.e. London, Manchester, Birmingham, 
etc.  As for stores, I think that's a function of a lot of politics, so 
I don't think it's something that's always the same.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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From: John <john@crydee.com>
Subject: Re: UK Tour
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 <C3A213C3-02C3-11D6-A177-003065A8A644@bittersea.com>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2002 17:55:13 +0000
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: John <john@crydee.com>
Subject: Re: UK Tour
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Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com> writes
>There are some obvious cities, i.e. London, Manchester, Birmingham, 
>etc.  As for stores, I think that's a function of a lot of politics, so 
>I don't think it's something that's always the same.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>----
 From what I remember places like Waterstones are popular probably due to 
chain size

W H Smiths don't care. My local can't even be bothered to get you books 
in for me when they come out

I think its time rip and I started our own store in time for this years 
visit. Only stocking one author of course. Fancy a bookstore named after 
you Ray?

Opening Soon The  'Raymond E Feist' Bookshoppe'

-- 
John

john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.

Raymond E Feist Ring
http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm



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From: "Maria Parsonage" <mpday@strayduck.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
References: <NGELLDNAEMBGGGHFAJPBAEHECJAA.gibbyfish@yahoo.com> <C3A213C3-02C3-11D6-A177-003065A8A644@bittersea.com> <uqzQCSaB+IO8Ew+S@cableinet.co.uk>
Subject: Re: UK Tour
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2002 20:32:57 -0000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Maria Parsonage" <mpday@strayduck.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: UK Tour
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2002 20:32:57 -0000
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WH Smiths do book signings occasionally. I work in Manchester, and I
walked past a few months ago to find Des O' Connor doing a book
signing!

For those unfamiliar with Des, he's a ageing TV personality - the kind
your grandmother likes!

Maria
----- Original Message -----
From: "John" <john@crydee.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2002 5:55 PM
Subject: Re: UK Tour


> Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com> writes
> >There are some obvious cities, i.e. London, Manchester, Birmingham,
> >etc.  As for stores, I think that's a function of a lot of politics, so
> >I don't think it's something that's always the same.
> >
> >Best, R.E.F.
> >----
>  From what I remember places like Waterstones are popular probably due to
> chain size
>
> W H Smiths don't care. My local can't even be bothered to get you books
> in for me when they come out
>
> I think its time rip and I started our own store in time for this years
> visit. Only stocking one author of course. Fancy a bookstore named after
> you Ray?
>
> Opening Soon The  'Raymond E Feist' Bookshoppe'
>
> --
> John
>
> john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
> http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.
>
> Raymond E Feist Ring
> http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm
>
>



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Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2002 09:39:22 +0800
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From: Shawn Chung <shawnc@starhub.net.sg>
Subject: Re: UK Tour
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2002 09:39:22 +0800
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Shawn Chung <shawnc@starhub.net.sg>
Subject: Re: UK Tour
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

>On Sunday, January 6, 2002, at 06:17 AM, Michael Gibson wrote:
>
>>>On Saturday, December 29, 2001, at 04:17 PM, Damian Dyer wrote:
>>>
>>>>Hello Ray,
>>>>
>>>>With the current world political climate and all are you
>>>>still planning on touring the UK in the coming year?
>>>
>>>I should be in the UK/Ireland in early September.  I may have a stop in
>>>Holland before or after, then on to Oz and NZ.
>>>
>>>Best, R.E.F.
[snip]

Hey Ray,

You doing a Singapore stopover?

If you are, would you be interested in sampling some local delicacies?
-- 
----

SeeYa StarSide

Shawn Chung

+---------------------------------------+
       If i could tell the world just one thing
          It would be that we're all okay
  And not to worry 'cause worry is wasteful
          And useless in times like these
               I won't be made useless
              I won't be idle with despair
          I'll gather myself around my faith
       For light does the darkness most fear
+---------------------------------------+
                    "Hands" - Jewel



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2002 19:19:58 -0800
Subject: Re: UK Tour
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Sunday, January 6, 2002, at 05:39 PM, Shawn Chung wrote:

>> On Sunday, January 6, 2002, at 06:17 AM, Michael Gibson wrote:
>>
>>>> On Saturday, December 29, 2001, at 04:17 PM, Damian Dyer wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hello Ray,
>>>>>
>>>>> With the current world political climate and all are you
>>>>> still planning on touring the UK in the coming year?
>>>>
>>>> I should be in the UK/Ireland in early September.  I may have a stop 
>>>> in
>>>> Holland before or after, then on to Oz and NZ.
>>>>
>>>> Best, R.E.F.
> [snip]
>
> Hey Ray,
>
> You doing a Singapore stopover?
>
> If you are, would you be interested in sampling some local delicacies?
> -- ----
>
> SeeYa StarSide
>
> Shawn Chung
>
>
If I did, it would be to refuel/change planes from London to Sidney.  If 
they let us off the plane I suspect it would be to hang out in one of 
those "in transit" security lounges for an hour or so.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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From: "Jeff Weidemann" <jeff@pronto.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: UK Tour
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2002 14:29:06 +1100
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Jeff Weidemann" <jeff@pronto.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: UK Tour
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2002 14:29:06 +1100
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Yep that's it, and I transited thru Singapore (london-melb) in November.
The security guards with the automatic weapons, don't smile either!

-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Raymond Feist
>Sent: Monday, 7 January 2002 2:20 PM
>To: FEISTFANS-L
>Subject: Re: UK Tour
>
>
>
>On Sunday, January 6, 2002, at 05:39 PM, Shawn Chung wrote:
>
>>> On Sunday, January 6, 2002, at 06:17 AM, Michael Gibson wrote:
>>>
>>>>> On Saturday, December 29, 2001, at 04:17 PM, Damian Dyer wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hello Ray,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> With the current world political climate and all are you
>>>>>> still planning on touring the UK in the coming year?
>>>>>
>>>>> I should be in the UK/Ireland in early September.  I may have a stop
>>>>> in
>>>>> Holland before or after, then on to Oz and NZ.
>>>>>
>>>>> Best, R.E.F.
>> [snip]
>>
>> Hey Ray,
>>
>> You doing a Singapore stopover?
>>
>> If you are, would you be interested in sampling some local delicacies?
>> -- ----
>>
>> SeeYa StarSide
>>
>> Shawn Chung
>>
>>
>If I did, it would be to refuel/change planes from London to Sidney.  If
>they let us off the plane I suspect it would be to hang out in one of
>those "in transit" security lounges for an hour or so.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
>stupidity.
>
>

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Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2002 11:36:01 +0800
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From: Shawn Chung <shawnc@starhub.net.sg>
Subject: Re: UK Tour
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2002 11:36:01 +0800
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Shawn Chung <shawnc@starhub.net.sg>
Subject: Re: UK Tour
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

>On Sunday, January 6, 2002, at 05:39 PM, Shawn Chung wrote:
>
>>>On Sunday, January 6, 2002, at 06:17 AM, Michael Gibson wrote:
>>>
>>>>>On Saturday, December 29, 2001, at 04:17 PM, Damian Dyer wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>Hello Ray,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>With the current world political climate and all are you
>>>>>>still planning on touring the UK in the coming year?
>>>>>
>>>>>I should be in the UK/Ireland in early September.  I may have a stop in
>>>>>Holland before or after, then on to Oz and NZ.
>>>>>
>>>>>Best, R.E.F.
>>[snip]
>>
>>Hey Ray,
>>
>>You doing a Singapore stopover?
>>
>>If you are, would you be interested in sampling some local delicacies?
>>-- ----
>>
>>SeeYa StarSide
>>
>>Shawn Chung
>>
>If I did, it would be to refuel/change planes from London to Sidney. 
>If they let us off the plane I suspect it would be to hang out in 
>one of those "in transit" security lounges for an hour or so.
>
Ah well,

Ah well, at least the transit area at the Singapore airport has 
plenty of entertainment, including a wireless LAN network for transit 
passengers.
-- 
----

SeeYa StarSide

Shawn Chung

+---------------------------------------+
       If i could tell the world just one thing
          It would be that we're all okay
  And not to worry 'cause worry is wasteful
          And useless in times like these
               I won't be made useless
              I won't be idle with despair
          I'll gather myself around my faith
       For light does the darkness most fear
+---------------------------------------+
                    "Hands" - Jewel



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2002 16:19:31 +0800
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Colin Chia <solsc@earthling.net>
Subject: Re: UK Tour
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

At 11:36 07/01/02 +0800, you wrote:
>>On Sunday, January 6, 2002, at 05:39 PM, Shawn Chung wrote:
>>
>>>>On Sunday, January 6, 2002, at 06:17 AM, Michael Gibson wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>>On Saturday, December 29, 2001, at 04:17 PM, Damian Dyer wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Hello Ray,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>With the current world political climate and all are you
>>>>>>>still planning on touring the UK in the coming year?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I should be in the UK/Ireland in early September.  I may have a stop in
>>>>>>Holland before or after, then on to Oz and NZ.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Best, R.E.F.
>>>[snip]
>>>
>>>Hey Ray,
>>>
>>>You doing a Singapore stopover?
>>>
>>>If you are, would you be interested in sampling some local delicacies?
>>>-- ----
>>>
>>>SeeYa StarSide
>>>
>>>Shawn Chung
>>If I did, it would be to refuel/change planes from London to Sidney. If 
>>they let us off the plane I suspect it would be to hang out in one of 
>>those "in transit" security lounges for an hour or so.
>Ah well,
>
>Ah well, at least the transit area at the Singapore airport has plenty of 
>entertainment, including a wireless LAN network for transit passengers.


It ain't called best in the world for no reason... They are running some 
gameshow in the transit lounge where you go shopping and win vouchers to do 
more shopping.



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Subject: Re: UK Tour
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From: "Alex Loke" <nerf@alphalink.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: UK Tour
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2002 20:43:36 +1100
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----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jeff Weidemann" <jeff@pronto.com.au>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Monday, January 07, 2002 2:29 PM
Subject: RE: UK Tour


> Yep that's it, and I transited thru Singapore (london-melb) in November.
> The security guards with the automatic weapons, don't smile either!

Oh, they do. But that's usually the last thing you see.

Nice country, interesting place to stay.

Regards,

Alex Loke



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From: Kenneth Jones <killkenny@thos.co.za>
Subject: The Atlas of Midkemia
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Hi Ray.

Do you know if/when "The Atlas of Midkemia" is going to be released.

On all on the book sites I have been to, they say it will be published on 
the 2 October, 2000.

That is quite a while back now.

Regards,
Kenneth Jones



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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: Thought Youd like to know, Ray..
In-Reply-To: <3C3769E0.7090004@alliances.org>
References: <6CEAD254-FEE9-11D5-92D0-003065A8A644@bittersea.com>
 <003b01be3a4c$dfaaf0c0$53a1fea9@mls>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2002 10:09:57 +0000
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: Thought Youd like to know, Ray..
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

At 03:02 PM 1/5/02 -0600, Bret Robideaux wrote:
> Me: Yes, there are several people on this list more than 
> capable of doing such a thing. Myself included, if you 
> must know (oh, hi Rip, didn't see you standing there *grin*).

Oh, I'm here all righty.

But only just got back.  Wait until I transcribe the menu of
the meal that my wife and I had for New Year's (we are back
to collecting European Capitals.  Just added Luxembourg to the
list...).

Anyway, it's more fun writing software for configurable and 
reconfigurable processors (so "next generation" that most 
people get glassy eyed when I start enthusing about them).

rip



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 <002801c1975f$c825eae0$a665a1ca@alexloke>
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2002 18:12:43 +0800
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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Shawn Chung <shawnc@starhub.net.sg>
Subject: Re: UK Tour
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2002 18:12:43 +0800
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Shawn Chung <shawnc@starhub.net.sg>
Subject: Re: UK Tour
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Jeff Weidemann" <jeff@pronto.com.au>
>To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
>Sent: Monday, January 07, 2002 2:29 PM
>Subject: RE: UK Tour
>
>
>>  Yep that's it, and I transited thru Singapore (london-melb) in November.
>>  The security guards with the automatic weapons, don't smile either!
>
>Oh, they do. But that's usually the last thing you see.
>
>Nice country, interesting place to stay.
>
>Regards,
>
>Alex Loke

Hmmm, yeah, the Singapore government is rather paranoid about 
national security, but it's better to be safe than sorry.

Airport security here is no worse than in some European countries. 
Israel, for example,  has far more stringent security checks.

Another factor is that the authorities here just announced that in 
mid-Novemebr, they busted a 15 member Al-Queada linked organization.

Best,
-- 
----

SeeYa StarSide

Shawn Chung

+---------------------------------------+
       If i could tell the world just one thing
          It would be that we're all okay
  And not to worry 'cause worry is wasteful
          And useless in times like these
               I won't be made useless
              I won't be idle with despair
          I'll gather myself around my faith
       For light does the darkness most fear
+---------------------------------------+
                    "Hands" - Jewel



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Subject: OT: Increasing security, Was Re: UK Tour 
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Alex Loke" <nerf@alphalink.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: OT: Increasing security, Was Re: UK Tour 
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2002 21:33:36 +1100
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From: "Shawn Chung" <shawnc@starhub.net.sg>
> Hmmm, yeah, the Singapore government is rather paranoid about
> national security, but it's better to be safe than sorry.

Very paranoid. But no more than the Malaysians. Seems they also found a few
Al-Q sympathisers. I'd imagine the fact that though Al-Q is to Islam like
the KKK is to Christianity, an islamic nation would be somewhat more
security conscious. Even a few years ago travelling through
Malaysia/Singapore was a little startling seeing security carried automatic
weapons, also considering I come from a country where your baggage is
checked by someone with a "Hi, My Name is Bazza" namebadge and refers to
everyone as "mate" while giving them a throrough frisking.

Regards,

Alex Loke





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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: RE: UK Tour
In-Reply-To: <NGELLDNAEMBGGGHFAJPBAEHECJAA.gibbyfish@yahoo.com>
References: <D73C5F2A-FCC5-11D5-BCE9-003065A8A644@bittersea.com>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2002 10:34:35 +0000
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: RE: UK Tour
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

At 02:17 PM 1/6/02 +0000, Michael Gibson wrote:
>Do your publishers have any preferred bookstore here in the UK, or are any fair
>game wrt you being sent to them?  Also, are there any preferred cities?  I
>remember you going to Birmingham and Cambridge (IIRC) last time around.  I'm
>trying to decide if it's worth badgering any of my local stores.

I think we should badger Blackwells in Oxford, since they are large
enough to be able to host it...

Or maybe that "natural history" bookstore on Marlborough Street, 
in front of Budgen's ;->

rip



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From: "Donal K. Fellows" <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
In-reply-to: <p04310100b85f22afb702@[210.24.115.65]> (message from Shawn Chung
	on Mon, 7 Jan 2002 18:12:43 +0800)
Subject: Re: UK Tour
References: <002001c1972b$76e5e3d0$1f0511ac@jeffw>
 <002801c1975f$c825eae0$a665a1ca@alexloke> <p04310100b85f22afb702@[210.24.115.65]>
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Donal K. Fellows" <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: UK Tour
Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2002 10:41:50 +0000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Shawn Chung <shawnc@starhub.net.sg>
> Airport security here is no worse than in some European countries. 
> Israel, for example,  has far more stringent security checks.

Israel's not a European country.  Paranoid, yes, but not European.

Donal.
-- 
Donal K. Fellows, Department of Computer Science, University of Manchester, UK.
(work) fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk     Tel: +44-161-275-6137  (preferred email addr.)
(home) donal@ugglan.demon.co.uk  Tel: +44-1274-401017   Mobile: +44-7957-298955
http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~fellowsd/  (Don't quote my .sig; I've seen it before!)



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In-Reply-To: <uqzQCSaB+IO8Ew+S@cableinet.co.uk>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2002 10:44:33 +0000
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: UK Tour
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

At 05:55 PM 1/6/02 +0000, John wrote:
>I think its time rip and I started our own store in time for this years visit. Only stocking one author of course. Fancy a bookstore named after you Ray?
>
>Opening Soon The  'Raymond E Feist' Bookshoppe'

Make it a pub with attached library/reading room (non-smoking,
of course)

ummmm.  Call it "That Which Was Sarth" or something.
rip



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Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2002 18:55:48 +0800
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Subject: Re: OT: Increasing security, Was Re: UK Tour
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2002 18:55:48 +0800
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Shawn Chung <shawnc@starhub.net.sg>
Subject: Re: OT: Increasing security, Was Re: UK Tour
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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>From: "Shawn Chung" <shawnc@starhub.net.sg>
>>  Hmmm, yeah, the Singapore government is rather paranoid about
>>  national security, but it's better to be safe than sorry.
>
>Very paranoid. But no more than the Malaysians. Seems they also found a few
>Al-Q sympathisers. I'd imagine the fact that though Al-Q is to Islam like
>the KKK is to Christianity, an islamic nation would be somewhat more
>security conscious. Even a few years ago travelling through
>Malaysia/Singapore was a little startling seeing security carried automatic
>weapons, also considering I come from a country where your baggage is
>checked by someone with a "Hi, My Name is Bazza" namebadge and refers to
>everyone as "mate" while giving them a throrough frisking.
>
>Regards,
>
>Alex Loke

Hey, I spent 10 years in Oz.

Was in Perth in late October, the security is still as anal as ever, 
about foodstuff, that is.

Remember folks, its not worth a US$1000 fine for bringing in an apple...
-- 
----

SeeYa StarSide

Shawn Chung

+---------------------------------------+
       If i could tell the world just one thing
          It would be that we're all okay
  And not to worry 'cause worry is wasteful
          And useless in times like these
               I won't be made useless
              I won't be idle with despair
          I'll gather myself around my faith
       For light does the darkness most fear
+---------------------------------------+
                    "Hands" - Jewel



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2002 18:58:05 +0800
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Shawn Chung <shawnc@starhub.net.sg>
Subject: Re: UK Tour
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

>Shawn Chung <shawnc@starhub.net.sg>
>>  Airport security here is no worse than in some European countries.
>>  Israel, for example,  has far more stringent security checks.
>
>Israel's not a European country.  Paranoid, yes, but not European.
>
>Donal.
>--

Then why do they come under UEFA in soccer? :)

Anyway, time to drop this increasingly OT thread...
-- 
----

SeeYa StarSide

Shawn Chung

+---------------------------------------+
       If i could tell the world just one thing
          It would be that we're all okay
  And not to worry 'cause worry is wasteful
          And useless in times like these
               I won't be made useless
              I won't be idle with despair
          I'll gather myself around my faith
       For light does the darkness most fear
+---------------------------------------+
                    "Hands" - Jewel



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Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2002 14:18:42 +0100
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Subject: Re: Thought Youd like to know, Ray..
References: <6CEAD254-FEE9-11D5-92D0-003065A8A644@bittersea.com> <003b01be3a4c$dfaaf0c0$53a1fea9@mls> <200201050903200563.003E74CF@mail-hub> <001f01be3b15$fe7e61c0$295ffea9@mls> <5.1.0.14.2.20020107100344.00eecbd0@mail.swindon.wrsec.fr>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2002 14:18:42 +0100
From: Caranorn Aglaredhel <caranorn@cmdnet.lu>
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Organization: House Phoenix
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; fr-FR; rv:0.9.4) Gecko/20011130 Netscape6/6.2.1
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Thought Youd like to know, Ray..
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

How did you like our tiny country? Astonishing to find a true feist fan 
move through here (hardly any fantasy lovers out here at all it seems, 
though LoTR and HP movies might change that).

Marc aka Caran... lost this small corner of Europe

Richard Williamson wrote:

>At 03:02 PM 1/5/02 -0600, Bret Robideaux wrote:
>
>>Me: Yes, there are several people on this list more than 
>>capable of doing such a thing. Myself included, if you 
>>must know (oh, hi Rip, didn't see you standing there *grin*).
>>
>
>Oh, I'm here all righty.
>
>But only just got back.  Wait until I transcribe the menu of
>the meal that my wife and I had for New Year's (we are back
>to collecting European Capitals.  Just added Luxembourg to the
>list...).
>
>Anyway, it's more fun writing software for configurable and 
>reconfigurable processors (so "next generation" that most 
>people get glassy eyed when I start enthusing about them).
>
>rip
>
>
>





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Subject: Re: Thought Youd like to know, Ray..
In-Reply-To: <3C39A032.6010300@cmdnet.lu>
References: <6CEAD254-FEE9-11D5-92D0-003065A8A644@bittersea.com>
 <003b01be3a4c$dfaaf0c0$53a1fea9@mls>
 <200201050903200563.003E74CF@mail-hub>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2002 14:06:37 +0000
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: Thought Youd like to know, Ray..
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

At 02:18 PM 1/7/02 +0100, Caranorn Aglaredhel wrote:
>How did you like our tiny country? 

We think it is a wonderful place...But I don't think we
qualify as an unbiased sample.  My wife is from Trier...

;->

rip



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To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: UK Tour
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2002 14:40:54 -0000
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From: "Michael Gibson" <gibbyfish@yahoo.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: UK Tour
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2002 14:40:54 -0000
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> At 02:17 PM 1/6/02 +0000, Michael Gibson wrote:
> >Do your publishers have any preferred bookstore here in the UK, or
> are any fair
> >game wrt you being sent to them?  Also, are there any preferred cities?  I
> >remember you going to Birmingham and Cambridge (IIRC) last time around.  I'm
> >trying to decide if it's worth badgering any of my local stores.
>
> I think we should badger Blackwells in Oxford, since they are large
> enough to be able to host it...

Sounds sensible.  I call up my posse of fantasy reading friends, and tell them
to start writing letters...

> Or maybe that "natural history" bookstore on Marlborough Street,
> in front of Budgen's ;->

;) Very... select.  In fact, if we can kid the publishers into thinking
Faringdon is in fact Farringdon (in London), you never know... <g>

Mike,
Gibfish of the West

"Better to light a candle than to curse the darkness."
Confucius


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To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: UK Tour
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2002 14:43:40 -0000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Michael Gibson" <gibbyfish@yahoo.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: UK Tour
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2002 14:43:40 -0000
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> >Shawn Chung <shawnc@starhub.net.sg>
> >>  Airport security here is no worse than in some European countries.
> >>  Israel, for example,  has far more stringent security checks.
> >
> >Israel's not a European country.  Paranoid, yes, but not European.
> >
> >Donal.
> >--
> 
> Then why do they come under UEFA in soccer? :)

Or sing in Eurovision? ;)

I guess it's just family/cultural links from when people moved there.

Mike,
Gibfish of the West

"Better to light a candle than to curse the darkness."
Confucius

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To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Increasing security, Was Re: UK Tour 
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2002 14:53:15 -0000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Michael Gibson" <gibbyfish@yahoo.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Increasing security, Was Re: UK Tour 
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2002 14:53:15 -0000
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> From: "Shawn Chung" <shawnc@starhub.net.sg>
> > Hmmm, yeah, the Singapore government is rather paranoid about
> > national security, but it's better to be safe than sorry.
>
> Very paranoid. But no more than the Malaysians. Seems they also found a few
> Al-Q sympathisers. I'd imagine the fact that though Al-Q is to Islam like
> the KKK is to Christianity, an islamic nation would be somewhat more
> security conscious.

I'm not sure about Malaysia, but I know Indonesia does have problems with armed
groups, due in part to the geography of the place.  Also, there is some
(although still small) public support for Mr. Bin Laden.

> Even a few years ago travelling through
> Malaysia/Singapore was a little startling seeing security carried automatic
> weapons, also considering I come from a country where your baggage is
> checked by someone with a "Hi, My Name is Bazza" namebadge and refers to
> everyone as "mate" while giving them a throrough frisking.

If find "mate" an infinitely useful name when at uni/parties when I can't
remember the names of people ;).

Mike,
Gibfish of the West

"Better to light a candle than to curse the darkness."
Confucius


_________________________________________________________
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*** EOOH ***
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Nope, it's largely Israel's interest in joining the European Union and 
other European institutions. They feel isolated it seems, while this 
might be understandable, I find it to be one of Israel's own faults that 
caused said isolation. Israel definitelly ain't European, but then I for 
one prefer to think of Eurasia and Africa as one large entity in 
historical terms.

Marc aka Caran...

Michael Gibson wrote:

>>>Shawn Chung <shawnc@starhub.net.sg>
>>>
>>>> Airport security here is no worse than in some European countries.
>>>> Israel, for example,  has far more stringent security checks.
>>>>
>>>Israel's not a European country.  Paranoid, yes, but not European.
>>>
>>>Donal.
>>>--
>>>
>>Then why do they come under UEFA in soccer? :)
>>
>
>Or sing in Eurovision? ;)
>
>I guess it's just family/cultural links from when people moved there.
>
>Mike,
>Gibfish of the West
>
>"Better to light a candle than to curse the darkness."
>Confucius
>
>_________________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
>




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Subject: OT Re: Increasing security, Was Re: UK Tour 
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Alex Loke" <nerf@alphalink.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: OT Re: Increasing security, Was Re: UK Tour 
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 02:09:46 +1100
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> I'm not sure about Malaysia, but I know Indonesia does have problems with armed
> groups, due in part to the geography of the place.  Also, there is some
> (although still small) public support for Mr. Bin Laden.

It's often forgotten, amidst the percieved Islamic scrutiny, that Indonesia
has one of, if not the, largest Muslim populations. Still, I'd imagine it to
be difficult to find mainstream ground support for Mr. BL anywhere.

> If find "mate" an infinitely useful name when at uni/parties when I can't
> remember the names of people ;).

We live in the lucky country. We have a cultural institution which provides
for our lapses due to alcohol =)

 Regards,

Alex Loke
nerf@alphalink.com.au

<INSERT WITTY LINE HERE>



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2002 16:26:56 +0100
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Indonesia is the country with the largest Islamic population of the 
world indeed. And no, I'd expect to find mainstream support for Bin 
laden and Al Quaida in many countries where much of the population feels 
opressed or that world resources are unjustly distributed. The main 
uncertainty I expect is how far their support might go, only a small 
portion would be willing and able to support Al Quaida militarily. There 
are serious issues at hand that need solving, and bombing countries to 
achieve this is as futile as throwing airplanes on high raisers. I would 
not underestimate the will of opressed people (or those feeling they are 
opressed) to use any means to improve their situation.

Marc aka Caran... former History and Political science student, current 
Politician and (amateur) Fantasy World Designer

Alex Loke wrote:

>>I'm not sure about Malaysia, but I know Indonesia does have problems with
>>
>armed
>
>>groups, due in part to the geography of the place.  Also, there is some
>>(although still small) public support for Mr. Bin Laden.
>>
>
>It's often forgotten, amidst the percieved Islamic scrutiny, that Indonesia
>has one of, if not the, largest Muslim populations. Still, I'd imagine it to
>be difficult to find mainstream ground support for Mr. BL anywhere.
>
>>If find "mate" an infinitely useful name when at uni/parties when I can't
>>remember the names of people ;).
>>
>
>We live in the lucky country. We have a cultural institution which provides
>for our lapses due to alcohol =)
>
> Regards,
>
>Alex Loke
>nerf@alphalink.com.au
>
><INSERT WITTY LINE HERE>
>
>
>




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To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
References: <NGELLDNAEMBGGGHFAJPBGEHJCJAA.gibbyfish@yahoo.com> <005e01c1978d$5b3d2000$1d66a1ca@alexloke> <3C39BE40.3030208@cmdnet.lu>
Subject: Re: OT Re: Increasing security, Was Re: UK Tour
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 02:41:07 +1100
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Alex Loke" <nerf@alphalink.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT Re: Increasing security, Was Re: UK Tour
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 02:41:07 +1100
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> Indonesia is the country with the largest Islamic population of the
> world indeed. And no, I'd expect to find mainstream support for Bin
> laden and Al Quaida in many countries where much of the population feels
> opressed or that world resources are unjustly distributed. The main
> uncertainty I expect is how far their support might go, only a small
> portion would be willing and able to support Al Quaida militarily. There
> are serious issues at hand that need solving, and bombing countries to
> achieve this is as futile as throwing airplanes on high raisers. I would
> not underestimate the will of opressed people (or those feeling they are
> opressed) to use any means to improve their situation.

Well, no I don't see the bombing as the most intelligent move either. But
imagine this point has been made abundantly clear when we realise we've
crippled a small country for the sake of a few terrorists (well, mainly
one). I understand that a 'war on terror' with such extreme retribution
could be seen as good policy considering the Big Brother role the US wants
to play to the world, but I personally don't condone it. If I were perhaps
inclined another way, and my logic centre slightly flawed, I could imagine
myself among those huddled in a bunker somewhere. Thankfully, I'm not.

But back on the off topic, I haven't travelled far recently, but I have seen
the increased security effort. The airports in Australia are now considering
charging outbound passsengers an extra fee for air marshalls. I wasn't
frisked or searched with gloves, but I did feel the slightest bit
uncomfortable (well, more than usual).

Regards,

Alex Loke
nerf@alphalink.com.au

<INSERT WITTY LINE HERE>




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Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2002 08:28:38 -0800
Subject: Re: The Atlas of Midkemia
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2002 08:28:38 -0800
Subject: Re: The Atlas of Midkemia
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Monday, January 7, 2002, at 01:51 AM, Kenneth Jones wrote:

> Hi Ray.
>
> Do you know if/when "The Atlas of Midkemia" is going to be released.
>
> On all on the book sites I have been to, they say it will be published 
> on the 2 October, 2000.
>
> That is quite a while back now.
>
> Regards,
> Kenneth Jones
>
>
>
>
The Atlas project is in limbo, due in the main to me having to meet some 
killer deadline problems with Talon of the Silver Hawk, King of Foxes 
(Talon's sequel),and Jimmy the Hand, this year.  Three novels in 12 
months is a personal best, so I suspect we won't start serious work on 
the Atlas until early 2003.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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From: "Michael Gibson" <gibbyfish@yahoo.com>
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Subject: RE: The Atlas of Midkemia
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2002 19:00:26 -0000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Michael Gibson" <gibbyfish@yahoo.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: The Atlas of Midkemia
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2002 19:00:26 -0000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

> On Monday, January 7, 2002, at 01:51 AM, Kenneth Jones wrote:
>
> > Hi Ray.
> >
> > Do you know if/when "The Atlas of Midkemia" is going to be released.
> >
> > On all on the book sites I have been to, they say it will be published
> > on the 2 October, 2000.
> >
> > That is quite a while back now.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Kenneth Jones
> >
> >
> >
> >
> The Atlas project is in limbo, due in the main to me having to meet some
> killer deadline problems with Talon of the Silver Hawk, King of Foxes
> (Talon's sequel),and Jimmy the Hand, this year.  Three novels in 12
> months is a personal best, so I suspect we won't start serious work on
> the Atlas until early 2003.
>
> Best, R.E.F.

Looks to be a good year for us fans then, and a bit of a manic one for
yourself...  Are you working on both Jimmy and Talon at the moment, or just the
one?

Mike,
Gibfish of the West

"Better to light a candle than to curse the darkness."
Confucius


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2002 12:15:44 -0800
Subject: Re: The Atlas of Midkemia
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Monday, January 7, 2002, at 11:00 AM, Michael Gibson wrote:

>> On Monday, January 7, 2002, at 01:51 AM, Kenneth Jones wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Ray.
>>>
>>> Do you know if/when "The Atlas of Midkemia" is going to be released.
>>>
>>> On all on the book sites I have been to, they say it will be published
>>> on the 2 October, 2000.
>>>
>>> That is quite a while back now.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Kenneth Jones
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> The Atlas project is in limbo, due in the main to me having to meet 
>> some
>> killer deadline problems with Talon of the Silver Hawk, King of Foxes
>> (Talon's sequel),and Jimmy the Hand, this year.  Three novels in 12
>> months is a personal best, so I suspect we won't start serious work on
>> the Atlas until early 2003.
>>
>> Best, R.E.F.
>

Actually, a couple of last minute changes to Murder in LaMut and Talon.  
I'll be starting on Jimmy with Steve once Murder is officially 
"accepted."

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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References: <002001c1972b$76e5e3d0$1f0511ac@jeffw> <002801c1975f$c825eae0$a665a1ca@alexloke> <p04310100b85f22afb702@[210.24.115.65]> <000d01c19766$c4c3a8e0$a665a1ca@alexloke>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2002 13:28:48 -0700
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT: Increasing security, Was Re: UK Tour
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Alex Loke wrote:
> 
> Very paranoid. But no more than the Malaysians. Seems they also found a few
> Al-Q sympathisers.

Well, it leaves me to wonder how far these security measures can go,
particularly here in the States.

Not sure how many of you heard, but some 15 year old kid in Tampa,
Florida, was getting a flying lesson and he took off without his
instructor. He then promptly flew the Cessna 157 into a Tampa
skyscraper. He was the only fatality, but in the suicide note they found
on his body it goes on about how he is a Bin Laden sympathizer, etc.
*sigh*

Couse, I'm given to wonder why we let 15 year olds get flying lessons,
to start with...

Craig J. Ries



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Subject: RE: OT: Increasing security, Was Re: UK Tour
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Michael Gibson" <gibbyfish@yahoo.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: OT: Increasing security, Was Re: UK Tour
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2002 20:40:44 -0000
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

> Alex Loke wrote:
> >
> > Very paranoid. But no more than the Malaysians. Seems they also found a few
> > Al-Q sympathisers.
>
> Well, it leaves me to wonder how far these security measures can go,
> particularly here in the States.
>
> Not sure how many of you heard, but some 15 year old kid in Tampa,
> Florida, was getting a flying lesson and he took off without his
> instructor. He then promptly flew the Cessna 157 into a Tampa
> skyscraper. He was the only fatality, but in the suicide note they found
> on his body it goes on about how he is a Bin Laden sympathizer, etc.
> *sigh*
>
> Couse, I'm given to wonder why we let 15 year olds get flying lessons,
> to start with...

Considering that you can only obtain a (car) driving licence at 17 here in the
UK, it does seem a bit odd to say the least.

But regardless of age, you have to tackle the desire to inflict harm, which is
tricky, and I'm not even going put that metallic cylindrical container of phyla
Annelida near any kind of opening implement.

Mike,
Gibfish of the West

"Better to light a candle than to curse the darkness."
Confucius


_________________________________________________________
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From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re: The Atlas of Midkemia
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From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: The Atlas of Midkemia
Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2002 17:00:31 -0500
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Ray:

You are a machine!

Adieu

Jimmy


>From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
>Subject: Re: The Atlas of Midkemia
>Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2002 08:28:38 -0800
>
>
>On Monday, January 7, 2002, at 01:51 AM, Kenneth Jones wrote:
>
>>Hi Ray.
>>
>>Do you know if/when "The Atlas of Midkemia" is going to be released.
>>
>>On all on the book sites I have been to, they say it will be published
>>on the 2 October, 2000.
>>
>>That is quite a while back now.
>>
>>Regards,
>>Kenneth Jones
>>
>>
>>
>>
>The Atlas project is in limbo, due in the main to me having to meet some
>killer deadline problems with Talon of the Silver Hawk, King of Foxes
>(Talon's sequel),and Jimmy the Hand, this year.  Three novels in 12
>months is a personal best, so I suspect we won't start serious work on
>the Atlas until early 2003.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
>stupidity.
>


_________________________________________________________________
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Andy Hogan" <andyhogan@dcsi.net.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: The Atlas of Midkemia
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 22:33:21 +1100
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Once again, I find myself out of date in whats happening with books in the
works, and being published. is there a list of what your working on at the
moment Ray?

`Andy

----- Original Message -----
From: "Raymond Feist" <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2002 7:15 AM
Subject: Re: The Atlas of Midkemia


>
> On Monday, January 7, 2002, at 11:00 AM, Michael Gibson wrote:
>
> >> On Monday, January 7, 2002, at 01:51 AM, Kenneth Jones wrote:
> >>
> >>> Hi Ray.
> >>>
> >>> Do you know if/when "The Atlas of Midkemia" is going to be released.
> >>>
> >>> On all on the book sites I have been to, they say it will be published
> >>> on the 2 October, 2000.
> >>>
> >>> That is quite a while back now.
> >>>
> >>> Regards,
> >>> Kenneth Jones
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >> The Atlas project is in limbo, due in the main to me having to meet
> >> some
> >> killer deadline problems with Talon of the Silver Hawk, King of Foxes
> >> (Talon's sequel),and Jimmy the Hand, this year.  Three novels in 12
> >> months is a personal best, so I suspect we won't start serious work on
> >> the Atlas until early 2003.
> >>
> >> Best, R.E.F.
> >
>
> Actually, a couple of last minute changes to Murder in LaMut and Talon.
> I'll be starting on Jimmy with Steve once Murder is officially
> "accepted."
>
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
>
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
> stupidity.
>



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Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 05:32:29 -0800 (PST)
From: greg frost <joljester@yahoo.com>
Subject: When will the following books be released in the US
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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Hello everyone.

I see that Ray has or is in the process of putting out these two
books.  I would like to know when they will be available in the US.

Murder in Lamut  by Feist/ Roesnberg

Honoured Enemy by Feist /Forstchen

Thanks

Greg

 



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In-reply-to: <20020108133229.40652.qmail@web9706.mail.yahoo.com> (message from
	greg frost on Tue, 8 Jan 2002 05:32:29 -0800 (PST))
Subject: Re: When will the following books be released in the US
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Donal K. Fellows" <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: When will the following books be released in the US
Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 14:01:24 +0000
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greg frost <joljester@yahoo.com>
> I see that Ray has or is in the process of putting out these two
> books.  I would like to know when they will be available in the US.
> 
> Murder in Lamut  by Feist/ Roesnberg
> Honoured Enemy by Feist /Forstchen

AFAIK, neither of those books has a North American publisher at the
moment[*] (and Murder isn't yet published anywhere) so you will have
to order them from overseas.  Luckily, http://www.amazon.co.uk/ makes
this really easy (assuming you've got a credit card, and don't go for
the option with added non-descript white powder in the package.  <eg>)

Donal.
[* Don't know why, but I assume it was because there wasn't agreement
   over the business-side of the deal.  I suppose it could be related
   to the fact that his current publisher did not publish the Riftwar
   books, but doesn't want him producing books for someone else... ]
-- 
Donal K. Fellows, Department of Computer Science, University of Manchester, UK.
(work) fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk     Tel: +44-161-275-6137  (preferred email addr.)
(home) donal@ugglan.demon.co.uk  Tel: +44-1274-401017   Mobile: +44-7957-298955
http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~fellowsd/  (Don't quote my .sig; I've seen it before!)



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 10:38:58 -0600
From: Bret Robideaux <bretr@alliances.org>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:0.9.4) Gecko/20011019 Netscape6/6.2
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Subject: Re: Thought Youd like to know, Ray..
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu



Richard Williamson wrote:

> At 03:02 PM 1/5/02 -0600, Bret Robideaux wrote:
> 
>>Me: Yes, there are several people on this list more than 
>>capable of doing such a thing. Myself included, if you 
>>must know (oh, hi Rip, didn't see you standing there *grin*).
>>
> 
> Oh, I'm here all righty.
> 
> But only just got back.  Wait until I transcribe the menu of
> the meal that my wife and I had for New Year's (we are back
> to collecting European Capitals.  Just added Luxembourg to the
> list...).
> 
> Anyway, it's more fun writing software for configurable and 
> reconfigurable processors (so "next generation" that most 
> people get glassy eyed when I start enthusing about them).
> 
> rip
> 


Hey rip,

   Welcome back then. Can't wait to hear that menu :) I'm looking 
forward to the day when I can start taking the wife to Europe for little 
jaunts (a little more difficult living on the side of the pond that I do 
*grin*).

   I interviewed for a position with Sprint International last month, 
but  it wasn't really the kind of work I was looking for (and we both 
knew it). But any travel would have been fun :)

   So, about the reconfigurable processors ... start enthusing. If we 
were in a pub together, our spouses might go glassy eyed in 2 seconds 
(with a few cycles to spare) but we'd make it through several pints on 
the topic *grin* ... unless we were playing 3 Dice Mic ... then it'd 
probably be several dozen pints :)

Bret




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Subject: Re: Thought Youd like to know, Ray..
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 17:21:21 +0000
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: Thought Youd like to know, Ray..
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At 10:38 AM 1/8/02 -0600, Bret Robideaux wrote:
> playing 3 Dice Mic ... then it'd probably be several dozen pints :)

re 3 Dice Mik (note the spelling ... heh ...)

I wrote a novel and dedicated two entire chapters to a tourney in
SFO a couple years back.  

        Grok the website:  www.nanowrimo.com


rip



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Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 09:39:24 -0800
Subject: Re: The Atlas of Midkemia
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 09:39:24 -0800
Subject: Re: The Atlas of Midkemia
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Tuesday, January 8, 2002, at 03:33 AM, Andy Hogan wrote:

> Once again, I find myself out of date in whats happening with books in 
> the
> works, and being published. is there a list of what your working on at 
> the
> moment Ray?
>
>
No list.  I'm currently working under two contracts: one for the three 
Legends of the Riftwar series,  Honored Enemy, Murder in LaMut, and 
Jimmy The Hand: HE  has been published in the UK already.  The other two 
are almost finished and yet begun.

Then I've a five book deal for Conclave of Shadows (Talon of the Silver 
Hawk, King of Foxes) and three yet untitled books which will comprise 
the next Riftwar Saga.

Plus the Atlas.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 09:42:51 -0800
Subject: Re: When will the following books be released in the US
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 09:42:51 -0800
Subject: Re: When will the following books be released in the US
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Tuesday, January 8, 2002, at 05:32 AM, greg frost wrote:

> Hello everyone.
>
> I see that Ray has or is in the process of putting out these two 
> books.  I would like to know when they will be available in the US.
>
> Murder in Lamut  by Feist/ Roesnberg
>
> Honoured Enemy by Feist /Forstchen

Currently there are no plans for publication in the US.  I anticipate 
having a US deal by the last part of this year, first part of next year, 
so the earliest we might see HE in a US edition is likely to be late 
2003.  The reasons for why are business reasons and not open to 
discussion.
>
>

You can order them when published via amazon.co.uk.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 12:24:35 -0600
From: Bret Robideaux <bretr@alliances.org>
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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Thought Youd like to know, Ray..
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Richard Williamson wrote:

> At 10:38 AM 1/8/02 -0600, Bret Robideaux wrote:
> 
>>playing 3 Dice Mic ... then it'd probably be several dozen pints :)
>>
> 
> re 3 Dice Mik (note the spelling ... heh ...)


   Sorry, Americans have taken to spelling it "Mic" these days *grimace*


> 
> I wrote a novel and dedicated two entire chapters to a tourney in
> SFO a couple years back.  
> 
>         Grok the website:  www.nanowrimo.com
> 


   Sounds cool, my daughter needs to take a nap though, have to look at 
it later ...

   Here's a thought, we should take this offline *grin*

Bret

 



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Subject: Re: When will the following books be released in the US
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*** EOOH ***
From: Smenick@aol.com
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 13:26:18 EST
Subject: Re: When will the following books be released in the US
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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In a message dated 1/8/2002 12:08:15 PM Central Standard Time, 
raymond@bittersea.com writes:


> Currently there are no plans for publication in the US.  I anticipate 
> having a US deal by the last part of this year, first part of next year, 
> so the earliest we might see HE in a US edition is likely to be late 
> 2003.  The reasons for why are business reasons and not open to 
> discussion.
> >
> >
> 
> You can order them when published via amazon.co.uk.
> 
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
> 
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
> stupidity.

Out of curiosity will there be any difference other than the cover art 
between the US and UK editions, for any of the books slated to be released 
soon? A side note for any US fans who are concerned about getting HE or the 
upcoming "Tales of the Riftwar" books. I would recommend, as Ray has 
mentioned, buying them from amazon. I bought HE over the summer and was happy 
not to have to wait for legalities of the US release.

-Sean Menick

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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: UK Tour
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2002 14:17:20 +1200
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

And a place where you can get a massage...
::purr::  My favourite pasttime between flights.
Well, that and a nap in the transit hotel if I
was there for more than 4 hours.

Julie.

> Ah well,
> 
> Ah well, at least the transit area at the Singapore airport has 
> plenty of entertainment, including a wireless LAN network for transit 
> passengers.
> ----
> Shawn Chung




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From: "Andrew James" <ajames2@mail.med.upenn.edu>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Blue Flash
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2002 10:11:09 -0500
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Andrew James" <ajames2@mail.med.upenn.edu>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Blue Flash
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2002 10:11:09 -0500
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I haven't posted in a while, but I saw this at one of my daily sights and
thought some people might be interested.  I remember a while back when there
was a discussion about the green flash during the sunset in TKB.  Well,
here's a link to a description about a blue flash that happens less
frequently than the green flash.
http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap020109.html

andy



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Subject: Hi and two questions
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 11:55:03 -0500
From: wilsonm80@netscape.net
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Hi and two questions
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Hi, there. The name's Wilson--I'm new to the list, having just
recently re-discovered my interest in Feist's work by deciding to buy
and read Magician: Apprentice, the only one of the Riftwar/Serpentwar
Saga I'd never read. I found that everything later on makes a little
more sense--like, who is this Charles guy?--now that I know the
beginning. I'm now gradually acquiring and re-devouring the remainder
of the two Sagas.

I've read the FAQ on Psihawk (it's good to finally know what the real
differences is between Greater Path and Lesser Path), but I have a
couple of questions that I'd appreciate being answered.

1.) Simple question. I recall a scene where Pug is, I believe, bound
  with a rope and struggling to free himself. He amazes himself by
  doing it via Lesser Path magic. I thought this was in Magician:
  Master, but I'm now to a point only just before the Warlord's games,
  and I don't think it's in this book. Am I transplanting this from
  another author's books, or just a different Feist novel? If so,
  which one?

2.) I'm all confused about the Enemy. In the original Riftwar, we
  thought the Enemy were the Valheru. In the Serpentwar Saga, it began
  to seem that the Valheru were nothing more than a tool of the
  Nameless One, Nalar. This made a lot more sense because the Valheru
  were just beings from one little world in the cosmos--it seems
  unlikely that beings who weren't even actually gods could wreak
  havoc as extensive as the Chaos Wars, slaying the gods of many
  worlds. Nalar as described in the Serpentwar seemed to be a greater
  god and a *cosmic* power for evil, which makes a lot more sense
  given the global scope of the Chaos Wars. However, the F.A.Q. has
  him listed as one of the Greater Gods of Midkemia, which seems to
  imply that he is a local influence, or at least native to
  Midkemia. That brings us back to the problem of why
  apparently-universal chaos prevailed during the Wars, and why he
  would be interested in Kelewan.

I see three possibilities:

1.) Nalar is native to Midkemia, but Midkemia for some reason produces
  extraordinarily powerful gods (and lesser beings) relative to the
  gods of other worlds. Thus, he functions as a god of Evil for much
  of the local universe.

2.) The Chaos Wars were restricted in scope, perhaps limited to a
  handful of worlds. Kelewan just happens to be one of them. Most of
  the universe doesn't even know the Chaos Wars happened--it's like a
  rebellion in Guatamala. Devastating only on a local scale.

3.) The FAQ remarks at one point that gods are shaped in part by the
  perception of their worshippers. Lims-Kragma might be a terrifyingly
  beautiful baby to one culture, and a man in a bowler hat to
  another. On the face of it, this is relative only to Midkemia, since
  the Tsurani have a different set of gods--and in Pug's vision on the
  Tower of Testing, these gods arrived on Kelewan and physically took
  up station there, which seems to rule out the Tsurani Death God
  being just another manifestation of Lims-Kragma under a different
  name. However, Pug's vision isn't necessarily objective reality--I
  read Macros' comment about things not being what they seem as
  hinting that those who fashioned the vision were *wrong* about their
  not being any stars when Kelewan went through the rift. So it might
  still be possible that there are only a finite number of Powers in
  the universe, just filtered through different cultural lenses, and
  Nalar is the universal power of selfishness and evil. Then his being
  listed as a God of Midkemia is chiefly due to the fact that Midkemia
  is the only world that's been extensively designed by the game
  architects, with other worlds as a backdrop only. We could read this
  also as "Greater God of the Midkemian universe."

To recap, it's either 
1.) Nalar is local but unusually powerful; 
2.) Nalar is local and so were the Chaos Wars; 
3.) Nalar is universal.

What is it?

--Wilson

P.S. I'm a Niven reader also, which is one reason I'm poking so
vigorously at what some may consider a minor detail--Nivenesque
tradition sometimes allows one to extrapolate details of a universe
unknown to the author at the time of writing, and occasionally have
them become part of the "real" universe when the author uses those
details. "The Ringworld is unstable!"

I learned that it is the weak who are cruel
And that gentleness is only to be expected from the strong.
  --Leo Rosten
-- 




__________________________________________________________________
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From: Erik Trulsson <ertr1013@student.uu.se>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Hi and two questions
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2002 18:23:27 +0100
From: Erik Trulsson <ertr1013@student.uu.se>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Hi and two questions
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On Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 11:55:03AM -0500, wilsonm80@netscape.net wrote:

[Please remember to wrap your lines at < 80 chars. Thanks.]

> Hi, there. The name's Wilson--I'm new to the list, having just
> recently re-discovered my interest in Feist's work by deciding to buy
> and read Magician: Apprentice, the only one of the Riftwar/Serpentwar
> Saga I'd never read. I found that everything later on makes a little
> more sense--like, who is this Charles guy?--now that I know the
> beginning. I'm now gradually acquiring and re-devouring the remainder
> of the two Sagas.
> 
> I've read the FAQ on Psihawk (it's good to finally know what the real
> differences is between Greater Path and Lesser Path), but I have a
> couple of questions that I'd appreciate being answered.
> 
> 1.) Simple question. I recall a scene where Pug is, I believe, bound
> with a rope and struggling to free himself. He amazes himself by
> doing it via Lesser Path magic. I thought this was in Magician:
> Master, but I'm now to a point only just before the Warlord's games,
> and I don't think it's in this book. Am I transplanting this from
> another author's books, or just a different Feist novel? If so, which
> one?

That scene is in Silverthorn

> 
> 2.) I'm all confused about the Enemy. In the original Riftwar, we
> thought the Enemy were the Valheru. In the Serpentwar Saga, it began
> to seem that the Valheru were nothing more than a tool of the
> Nameless One, Nalar. This made a lot more sense because the Valheru
> were just beings from one little world in the cosmos--it seems
> unlikely that beings who weren't even actually gods could wreak havoc
> as extensive as the Chaos Wars, slaying the gods of many worlds.
> Nalar as described in the Serpentwar seemed to be a greater god and a
> *cosmic* power for evil, which makes a lot more sense given the
> global scope of the Chaos Wars. However, the F.A.Q. has him listed as
> one of the Greater Gods of Midkemia, which seems to imply that he is
> a local influence, or at least native to Midkemia. That brings us
> back to the problem of why apparently-universal chaos prevailed
> during the Wars, and why he would be interested in Kelewan.
> 
> I see three possibilities:
> 
> 1.) Nalar is native to Midkemia, but Midkemia for some reason
> produces extraordinarily powerful gods (and lesser beings) relative
> to the gods of other worlds. Thus, he functions as a god of Evil for
> much of the local universe.
> 
> 2.) The Chaos Wars were restricted in scope, perhaps limited to a
> handful of worlds. Kelewan just happens to be one of them. Most of
> the universe doesn't even know the Chaos Wars happened--it's like a
> rebellion in Guatamala. Devastating only on a local scale.
> 
> 3.) The FAQ remarks at one point that gods are shaped in part by the
> perception of their worshippers. Lims-Kragma might be a terrifyingly
> beautiful baby to one culture, and a man in a bowler hat to another.
> On the face of it, this is relative only to Midkemia, since the
> Tsurani have a different set of gods--and in Pug's vision on the
> Tower of Testing, these gods arrived on Kelewan and physically took
> up station there, which seems to rule out the Tsurani Death God being
> just another manifestation of Lims-Kragma under a different name.
> However, Pug's vision isn't necessarily objective reality--I read
> Macros' comment about things not being what they seem as hinting that
> those who fashioned the vision were *wrong* about their not being any
> stars when Kelewan went through the rift. So it might still be
> possible that there are only a finite number of Powers in the
> universe, just filtered through different cultural lenses, and Nalar
> is the universal power of selfishness and evil. Then his being listed
> as a God of Midkemia is chiefly due to the fact that Midkemia is the
> only world that's been extensively designed by the game architects,
> with other worlds as a backdrop only. We could read this also as
> "Greater God of the Midkemian universe."
> 
> To recap, it's either 
> 1.) Nalar is local but unusually powerful; 
> 2.) Nalar is local and so were the Chaos Wars; 
> 3.) Nalar is universal.
> 
> What is it?
> 

Number 3.  Nalar and the other controller gods are very much
universal.  Note that these are somewhat different from "ordinary"
gods.
(At least from what we have seen so far.  It is not impossible that Ray
has few more surprises in store for use. :-))


-- 
<Insert your favourite quote here.>
Erik Trulsson
ertr1013@student.uu.se



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Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2002 09:42:44 -0800
Subject: Re: Hi and two questions
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2002 09:42:44 -0800
Subject: Re: Hi and two questions
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Wednesday, January 9, 2002, at 08:55 AM, wilsonm80@netscape.net wrote:

> Hi, there. The name's Wilson--I'm new to the list, having just recently 
> re-discovered my interest in Feist's work by deciding to buy and read 
> Magician: Apprentice, the only one of the Riftwar/Serpentwar Saga I'd 
> never read. I found that everything later on makes a little more 
> sense--like, who is this Charles guy?--now that I know the beginning. 
> I'm now gradually acquiring and re-devouring the remainder of the two 
> Sagas.
>
> I've read the FAQ on Psihawk (it's good to finally know what the real 
> differences is between Greater Path and Lesser Path), but I have a 
> couple of questions that I'd appreciate being answered.
>
> 1.) Simple question. I recall a scene where Pug is, I believe, bound 
> with a rope and struggling to free himself. He amazes himself by doing 
> it via Lesser Path magic. I thought this was in Magician: Master, but 
> I'm now to a point only just before the Warlord's games, and I don't 
> think it's in this book. Am I transplanting this from another author's 
> books, or just a different Feist novel? If so, which one?

No, that was in Silverthorn when Pug returns to Kelewan to alert the 
Assembly of the coming attack by The Enemy.
>
> 2.) I'm all confused about the Enemy. In the original Riftwar, we 
> thought the Enemy were the Valheru. In the Serpentwar Saga, it began to 
> seem that the Valheru were nothing more than a tool of the Nameless 
> One, Nalar. This made a lot more sense because the Valheru were just 
> beings from one little world in the cosmos--it seems unlikely that 
> beings who weren't even actually gods could wreak havoc as extensive as 
> the Chaos Wars, slaying the gods of many worlds. Nalar as described in 
> the Serpentwar seemed to be a greater god and a *cosmic* power for 
> evil, which makes a lot more sense given the global scope of the Chaos 
> Wars. However, the F.A.Q. has him listed as one of the Greater Gods of 
> Midkemia, which seems to imply that he is a local influence, or at 
> least native to Midkemia. That brings us back to the problem of why 
> apparently-universal chaos prevailed during the Wars, and why he would 
> be interested in Kelewan.
>
> I see three possibilities:
>
> 1.) Nalar is native to Midkemia, but Midkemia for some reason produces 
> extraordinarily powerful gods (and lesser beings) relative to the gods 
> of other worlds. Thus, he functions as a god of Evil for much of the 
> local universe.
>
> 2.) The Chaos Wars were restricted in scope, perhaps limited to a 
> handful of worlds. Kelewan just happens to be one of them. Most of the 
> universe doesn't even know the Chaos Wars happened--it's like a 
> rebellion in Guatamala. Devastating only on a local scale.
>
> 3.) The FAQ remarks at one point that gods are shaped in part by the 
> perception of their worshippers. Lims-Kragma might be a terrifyingly 
> beautiful baby to one culture, and a man in a bowler hat to another. On 
> the face of it, this is relative only to Midkemia, since the Tsurani 
> have a different set of gods--and in Pug's vision on the Tower of 
> Testing, these gods arrived on Kelewan and physically took up station 
> there, which seems to rule out the Tsurani Death God being just another 
> manifestation of Lims-Kragma under a different name. However, Pug's 
> vision isn't necessarily objective reality--I read Macros' comment 
> about things not being what they seem as hinting that those who 
> fashioned the vision were *wrong* about their not being any stars when 
> Kelewan went through the rift. So it might still be possible that there 
> are only a finite number of Powers in the universe, just filtered 
> through different cultural lenses, and Nalar is the universal power of 
> selfishness and evil. The!
> !
> !
> n his being listed as a God of Midkemia is chiefly due to the fact that 
> Midkemia is the only world that's been extensively designed by the game 
> architects, with other worlds as a backdrop only. We could read this 
> also as "Greater God of the Midkemian universe."
>
> To recap, it's either
> 1.) Nalar is local but unusually powerful;
> 2.) Nalar is local and so were the Chaos Wars;
> 3.) Nalar is universal.
>
> What is it?

Short answer.  "Evil" is universal, but Nalar is the "local" 
manifestation of evil in the Midkemian space/time.

>
> --Wilson
>
> P.S. I'm a Niven reader also, which is one reason I'm poking so 
> vigorously at what some may consider a minor detail--Nivenesque 
> tradition sometimes allows one to extrapolate details of a universe 
> unknown to the author at the time of writing, and occasionally have 
> them become part of the "real" universe when the author uses those 
> details. "The Ringworld is unstable!"
>

Ya, but Larry makes it up as he goes.  Ringworld was originally the 
world's longest shaggy dog story, i.e. the gene that gave Teela Brown 
"luck" bent the entire universes's history so that she would eventually 
end up in the safest place in the cosmos.  Then some year's later Larry 
gets a while hair and creates a story where she turns into a Pak 
Protector, not exactly a risk-free job.  I twitted him about that one 
and he just grinned at me.  Sometimes we have no overarching sense of 
our universes. Other times we know exactly what we're doing.  And 
sometimes we even have a clue which is which.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Ray why are you comming out with books that take place in the middle of the 
books you already have out. i have read all of the Rift war and Serpent was 
sagas and was Upset by the rift war legacy that has charactors that i know 
died of old age. It is really Hard for me to get into these books. I have 
been reading Krondor the Betrayal for 3 years now.

_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com



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Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 08:37:29 +1100 (EST)
From: David Smith - NT Interoperability Engineer <David.M.Smith@Sun.COM>
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» From: "Mic Olafson" <tbird7775@hotmail.com>
» To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
» Subject: I have a question
» 
» Ray why are you comming out with books that take place in the middle of the 
» books you already have out. i have read all of the Rift war and Serpent was 
» sagas and was Upset by the rift war legacy that has charactors that i know 
» died of old age. It is really Hard for me to get into these books. I have 
» been reading Krondor the Betrayal for 3 years now.

New ideas for stories to tell, old ideas only now finding a home, popular demand 
for more of the antics of favourite characters... the list goes on. Suffice it 
to say that it's Rays universe and we're all just along for the ride. :)

Just put the book into perspective. Think of it as a new history come to light, 
new details emerging, within the telling of the history of Midkemia.

-- David Smith



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Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2002 13:43:07 -0800
Subject: Re: I have a question
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Wednesday, January 9, 2002, at 01:02 PM, Mic Olafson wrote:

>
>
> Ray why are you comming out with books that take place in the middle of 
> the books you already have out. i have read all of the Rift war and 
> Serpent was sagas and was Upset by the rift war legacy that has 
> charactors that i know died of old age. It is really Hard for me to get 
> into these books. I have been reading Krondor the Betrayal for 3 years 
> now.
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com
>
>
>
>

The Legacy series is primarily a result of the desire to integrate the 
events of the game into the "cannon" of the Riftwar and Serpentwar.

The Ledgends series is me wanted "other voices" in my world and telling 
stories that took place in other locations.

As for knowing the characters in the story don't die until much later, 
that never seemed to bother readers of Tarzan, Conan, James Bond, etc.  
Some folks like them, others don't.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Subject: RE: I have a question
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From: "Jeff Weidemann" <jeff@pronto.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: I have a question
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 12:36:40 +1100
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Rameses The Great is dead and he is still widely read-about....

-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Raymond Feist
>Sent: Thursday, 10 January 2002 8:43 AM
>To: FEISTFANS-L
>Subject: Re: I have a question
>
>
>
>On Wednesday, January 9, 2002, at 01:02 PM, Mic Olafson wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Ray why are you comming out with books that take place in the middle of 
>> the books you already have out. i have read all of the Rift war and 
>> Serpent was sagas and was Upset by the rift war legacy that has 
>> charactors that i know died of old age. It is really Hard for me to get 
>> into these books. I have been reading Krondor the Betrayal for 3 years 
>> now.
>>
>> _________________________________________________________________
>> Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>The Legacy series is primarily a result of the desire to integrate the 
>events of the game into the "cannon" of the Riftwar and Serpentwar.
>
>The Ledgends series is me wanted "other voices" in my world and telling 
>stories that took place in other locations.
>
>As for knowing the characters in the story don't die until much later, 
>that never seemed to bother readers of Tarzan, Conan, James Bond, etc.  
>Some folks like them, others don't.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
>stupidity.

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From: "James E.Roberts" <jroberts6@vtown.com.au>
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This is just a test to see if I can send emails internationally, cause
I was playing Everquest and all of a sudden the connection
vanished. Then I tried accesing International websites, and was unable
to. Are their similar problems elseware. Some fisherman must have hit
a million-dollar fiberoptic cable agaim :( 

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From: "Nevyn" <alien4@wasp.net.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: OT: Cancer Research Engine
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 15:41:57 +0800
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Nevyn" <alien4@wasp.net.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: OT: Cancer Research Engine
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 15:41:57 +0800
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I ask you all to go to this website
http://members.ud.com/projects/cancer/index.htm

and download and run their engine + screensaver. It was created by the
Chemistry guys at Oxford university who are studying cancer proteins.
The program contains a database of billions upon billions of drug
molecules and it tests these molecules upon several cancer proteins,
seeing if it will effect it in any way. Each time you get a result the
information is sent back to oxford.



Thanks

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From: "Selina Takerei" <buny@optushome.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
References: <001401c199aa$48b89170$0300a8c0@shak>
Subject: Re: Cancer Research Engine
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 16:06:38 +1100
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Selina Takerei" <buny@optushome.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Cancer Research Engine
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 16:06:38 +1100
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

thank you so much !!!!!! i used to have the program running all the
time, but had to format c:/ and forgot where to get it..... been
looking for it for ages.
You're a champ.
Sel.
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: Nevyn 
>To: FEISTFANS-L 
>Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 6:41 PM
>Subject: OT: Cancer Research Engine
>
>
>I ask you all to go to this website
>http://members.ud.com/projects/cancer/index.htm
>
>and download and run their engine + screensaver. It was created by
>the Chemistry guys at Oxford university who are studying cancer
>proteins. The program contains a database of billions upon billions
>of drug molecules and it tests these molecules upon several cancer
>proteins, seeing if it will effect it in any way. Each time you get a
>result the information is sent back to oxford.
>
>
>Thanks

1,,
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Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 18:11:00 +1000 (GMT+1000)
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From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: OT: Cancer Research Engine
In-Reply-To: <001401c199aa$48b89170$0300a8c0@shak>
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.4.30.0201101810350.12850-100000@student.uq.edu.au>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 18:11:00 +1000 (GMT+1000)
From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: OT: Cancer Research Engine
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


I know its for a good cause, but please try refrain from sending this to
the list....

> I ask you all to go to this website
> http://members.ud.com/projects/cancer/index.htm
>
>
>
> and download and run their engine + screensaver. It was created by the Chemistry guys at Oxford university who are studying cancer proteins. The program contains a database of billions upon billions of drug molecules and it tests these molecules upon several cancer proteins, seeing if it will effect it in any way. Each time you get a result the information is sent back to oxford.
>
>
>
> Thanks
>
>
>
>

Thanks
Darragh
-=-=
www.iamtheporkfireman.com
[Email]: s356179@student.uq.edu.au [ICQ]: 114283262



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From: "Nevyn" <alien4@wasp.net.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
References: <Pine.OSF.4.30.0201101810350.12850-100000@student.uq.edu.au>
Subject: Re: OT: Cancer Research Engine
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 16:41:43 +0800
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Nevyn" <alien4@wasp.net.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT: Cancer Research Engine
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 16:41:43 +0800
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

When you own the list, or watch your 16 year old girlfriend die from
leukiemia several weeks after she births your child, you may tell me what to
do :-)
Until then, just ignore messages containing "OT" in them :o)

Nevyn
----- Original Message -----
From: "Darragh Murray" <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 4:11 PM
Subject: Re: OT: Cancer Research Engine


>
> I know its for a good cause, but please try refrain from sending this to
> the list....
>
> > I ask you all to go to this website
> > http://members.ud.com/projects/cancer/index.htm
> >
> >
> >
> > and download and run their engine + screensaver. It was created by the
> > Chemistry guys at Oxford university who are studying cancer proteins. The
> > program contains a database of billions upon billions of drug molecules and
> > it tests these molecules upon several cancer proteins, seeing if it will
> > effect it in any way. Each time you get a result the information is sent
> > back to oxford.
> >
> >
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> Thanks
> Darragh
> -=-=
> www.iamtheporkfireman.com
> [Email]: s356179@student.uq.edu.au [ICQ]: 114283262
>



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From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
References: <NDBBKPNMDKAIIMNELDBKOEEALHAA.ajames2@mail.med.upenn.edu>
Subject: Re: Blue Flash
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 03:26:03 -0600
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Blue Flash
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 03:26:03 -0600
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Cool, I'd never seen one that was blue.

-James

----- Original Message -----
From: "Andrew James" <ajames2@mail.med.upenn.edu>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2002 9:11 AM
Subject: Blue Flash


> I haven't posted in a while, but I saw this at one of my daily sights and
> thought some people might be interested.  I remember a while back when there
> was a discussion about the green flash during the sunset in TKB. Well,
> here's a link to a description about a blue flash that happens less
> frequently than the green flash.
> http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap020109.html
>
> andy
>



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From: Michael Holzer <epicmike@yahoo.com>
Subject: One thing which interests me quite enough to ask! :)
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 11:01:46 +0100 (CET)
From: Michael Holzer <epicmike@yahoo.com>
Subject: One thing which interests me quite enough to ask! :)
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Hi everyone!

I've currently started to read the Kelewan Saga for
the second time after having read all R.E.F books yet
available here in Austria. 

And although i've already read it, i found myself
really shaking and felt (it's "goose skin" in German)
the cold running all over my body, when reading the
more tragic and heroic parts of the first book. Now i
have a question about this...

Ray, after you wrote the book/saga - or better when
you read it for yourself after completing it, did you
feel the same "emotional reactions" at the
tragic/heroic parts of it?

Is it hard for an author to really enjoy some books
(from other authors) like we all do? Do you read those
books "authorlike" - comparing the whole story to some
own ones, searching for some minor/major problems in
the structure of the other's created worlds? I could
imagine that you read books differently to some
"normal readers", cause you are an author by yourself
and (perhaps?) see books not only as an amusement, but
more like a "piece of work"...

Hope you got my question(s) and find time to answer
it! :D

Have a nice day!

Mike

====I feel a change...back to a better day...hair stands on the back of my neck...in wilderness is the preservation of the world...so seek the wolf in thyself!

__________________________________________________________________

Gesendet von Yahoo! Mail - http://mail.yahoo.de
Ihre E-Mail noch individueller? - http://domains.yahoo.de



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In-reply-to: <000901c199b2$a28c32d0$0300a8c0@shak> (alien4@wasp.net.au)
Subject: Re: OT: Cancer Research Engine
References: <Pine.OSF.4.30.0201101810350.12850-100000@student.uq.edu.au> <000901c199b2$a28c32d0$0300a8c0@shak>
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Donal K. Fellows" <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT: Cancer Research Engine
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 10:12:24 +0000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

"Nevyn" <alien4@wasp.net.au>
> When you own the list, or watch your 16 year old girlfriend die from
> leukiemia several weeks after she births your child, you may tell me
> what to do :-)

Wrong, asshole.  We can tell anyone we like what to do and where to
go.  (Not everyone listens and obeys, but that's another matter.)

> Until then, just ignore messages containing "OT" in them :o)

Or ask the list owner to unsub you off for bad attitude?

</flame>

The list rules in relation to off-topic stuff are quite simple: don't
start off-topic threads.  (Of course, the easy way round this rule is
to put some on-topic content in the message as well, and let the
thread migrate from there.  Bonus points for linking such adverts[*]
to Midkemia in a not-too-strained way. <g>)  If it wasn't for that,
this list would be swamped by discussions of what the best earthly
religion/computer/gun/politics/whatever is, and would be as rubbish
much of the rest of the .net; being a little bit strict about what
threads are started keeps the place nicer for everyone...

Donal.
[* That's what is was.  Let's not mince words. ]
-- 
Donal K. Fellows, Department of Computer Science, University of Manchester, UK.
(work) fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk     Tel: +44-161-275-6137  (preferred email addr.)
(home) donal@ugglan.demon.co.uk  Tel: +44-1274-401017   Mobile: +44-7957-298955
http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~fellowsd/  (Don't quote my .sig; I've seen it before!)



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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
References: <Pine.OSF.4.30.0201101810350.12850-100000@student.uq.edu.au> <000901c199b2$a28c32d0$0300a8c0@shak> <E16OcC8-0006GS-00@athene>
Subject: Re: OT: Cancer Research Engine
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 19:10:50 +0800
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Nevyn" <alien4@wasp.net.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT: Cancer Research Engine
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 19:10:50 +0800
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Fine. I shall mention it not further. It was just Katharine Kerr and the
people on her list love discussing other things than simply her books,
because its a list for HER FANS to talk to one another, not just her fans to
ask her questions. And I thought that this list was also as such, for Ray's
FANS to find one another.

I was wrong.

Nevyn.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Donal K. Fellows" <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 6:12 PM
Subject: Re: OT: Cancer Research Engine


> "Nevyn" <alien4@wasp.net.au>
> > When you own the list, or watch your 16 year old girlfriend die from
> > leukiemia several weeks after she births your child, you may tell me
> > what to do :-)
>
> Wrong, asshole.  We can tell anyone we like what to do and where to
> go.  (Not everyone listens and obeys, but that's another matter.)
>
> > Until then, just ignore messages containing "OT" in them :o)
>
> Or ask the list owner to unsub you off for bad attitude?
>
> </flame>
>
> The list rules in relation to off-topic stuff are quite simple: don't
> start off-topic threads.  (Of course, the easy way round this rule is
> to put some on-topic content in the message as well, and let the
> thread migrate from there.  Bonus points for linking such adverts[*]
> to Midkemia in a not-too-strained way. <g>)  If it wasn't for that,
> this list would be swamped by discussions of what the best earthly
> religion/computer/gun/politics/whatever is, and would be as rubbish
> much of the rest of the .net; being a little bit strict about what
> threads are started keeps the place nicer for everyone...
>
> Donal.
> [* That's what is was.  Let's not mince words. ]
> --
> Donal K. Fellows, Department of Computer Science, University of Manchester, UK.
> (work) fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk     Tel: +44-161-275-6137  (preferred email addr.)
> (home) donal@ugglan.demon.co.uk  Tel: +44-1274-401017   Mobile: +44-7957-298955
> http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~fellowsd/  (Don't quote my .sig; I've seen it before!)
>



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From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: OT: Cancer Research Engine
In-Reply-To: <000e01c199c7$79655430$0300a8c0@shak>
References: <Pine.OSF.4.30.0201101810350.12850-100000@student.uq.edu.au>
 <000901c199b2$a28c32d0$0300a8c0@shak>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 11:44:41 +0000
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: OT: Cancer Research Engine
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Hi!

Nevyn wrote:
>I was wrong.

Hopefully we can change that...

This is a list inhabited by feistfans.  That means that the one thing
that we have in common is that we enjoy reading (or in one case, writing)
Feist novels.

However over the past years, we have developed a social policy that is
defined by:

1) On topic only.
2) Off topic is only allowed if it devolved from an On Topic Post.
3) Thou shalt not skyve off OT posts.  Skyving means to start 
OT posts will-he-nill-he.  Your post violated this restriction.
4) The way to get around the restriction of #3 is to stretch an
on topic post to cover your off topic point.  (see #2 above).
5) The other way, is to put the offending material into your
.sig (remember, an em dash, a space and then four lines of 80
characters, MAXIMUM).  If you can't fit your OT point into the
320 characters, then don't bother.

And remember /EVERY LIST IS DIFFERENT/.  You can not apply knowledge
of one list to every other list in existence.  They are all their
own little microcosms.  

rip
-- 
grok the site!  www.nanowrimo.com
read my (initial, unedited) efforts!  (url or pdf on request)

At 07:10 PM 1/10/02 +0800, Nevyn wrote:
>ask her questions. And I thought that this list was also as such, for Ray's
>FANS to find one another.
>
>I was wrong.



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Hi, I joined the list just before Christmas and I just wanted to say
hello.  I was introduced to Ray's work by a neighbour, who lent me
Magician to read when I was just 12 years old.  At the time I enjoyed
Magician and the other books as great stories but as I grew older I
re-read them a number of times and began to appreciate the character
development etc that wouldn't be as obvious to a younger person.  I am
now 21 and I still read Ray's books over.  My favourite is Silverthorn
but I can't really put my finger on it as to why.  But anyway, thanks
Ray, for keeping me entertained for the past nine years and for many
to come!

-------------------------------------------------
This mail sent through IMP: webmail.brad.ac.uk



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From: "Nevyn" <alien4@wasp.net.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Honoured Enemy
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 22:51:58 +0800
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Nevyn" <alien4@wasp.net.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Honoured Enemy
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 22:51:58 +0800
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

It is a shame you guys in the US dont get to read Honoured Enemy, I
just finished the hardback and it was grrreat :o)
Good work Ray and William. 

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From: "Chris R Hoffman" <krazyman@advnet.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Honoured Enemy
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 10:27:45 -0500
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Chris R Hoffman" <krazyman@advnet.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Honoured Enemy
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 10:27:45 -0500
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who says we don't get to read it? I had mine shipped in to the states months
ago. and yes, it was great. I really enjoyed it.

Chris R Hoffman


>  -----Original Message-----
>  From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Nevyn
>  Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 9:52 AM
>  To: FEISTFANS-L
>  Subject: Honoured Enemy
>
>
>  It is a shame you guys in the US dont get to read Honoured Enemy, I just
>finished the hardback and it was grrreat :o)
>  Good work Ray and William.

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From: Bob Montgomery <dante@kingcon.com>
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Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 10:35:08 -0500
Subject: Re: Honoured Enemy
From: Bob Montgomery <dante@kingcon.com>
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We can read it, we just had to buy it from Amazon.uk :)

I preordered it and had it the day it came out... read it about two hours
later and yes, it was great :)

Fantastic, actually...

Just rereading Shadow of a Dark Queen for fun, and remembering how much I
love this series, too... the gallows scene, even though I know what happens,
still gives me chills. Even though I just finished PotB and KB, it took me a
while to refresh the details, since the action is 20+ years in the future
from KB (24 or 25, right? I think that's what Calis says a couple of times).

Speaking of which, a question for Ray on that storyline: we hear several
times about the fairly large force that Calis and Bobby took to Novindus
after Nicolas' trip in KB (2K troops or so), a group that subsequently got
wiped out, but it's only referenced as history. Any plans to flesh that
story out as another book?

("Calis' Crimson Eagles: Attack of the Pantathian Clones" *grin* KIDDING!)

Just curious. There's a great deal to explore in that one, I'd wager.

> From: "Nevyn" <alien4@wasp.net.au>
> Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 22:51:58 +0800
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
> Subject: Honoured Enemy
> 
> t is a shame you guys in the US dont get to read Honoured Enemy, I just
> finished the hardback and it was grrreat :o)
> Good work Ray and William. 



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Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 10:46:18 EST
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"Nevyn" <alien4@wasp.net.au> writes:

> It is a shame you guys in the US dont get to read 
> Honoured Enemy, I just finished the hardback and it was grrreat :o)
> Good work Ray and William. 

"Us guys in the US", that have a shipping address, have had the joy of
reading it (many months ago for me). 
  8^)

Jim



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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
In-reply-to: <B8631EDB.3ABE%dante@kingcon.com> (message from Bob Montgomery on
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From: "Donal K. Fellows" <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Honoured Enemy
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 15:55:19 +0000
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Bob Montgomery <dante@kingcon.com>
> Speaking of which, a question for Ray on that storyline: we hear several
> times about the fairly large force that Calis and Bobby took to Novindus
> after Nicolas' trip in KB (2K troops or so), a group that subsequently got
> wiped out, but it's only referenced as history. Any plans to flesh that
> story out as another book?

Ray's decided not to do that one ("Return of the Buccaneer") for a
mixture of reasons, initially to do with switching publishers, but
also some of the material was then worked into the Serpentwar
(particularly the appearance of Miranda, though it would have been
somewhat similar to SoaDQ in the basic outline of the plot as well, so
far as I can see.)  He says that the rest would have been pretty
depressing, since it was a book about a crushing defeat with very few
survivors.

Donal.
-- 
Donal K. Fellows, Department of Computer Science, University of Manchester, UK.
(work) fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk     Tel: +44-161-275-6137  (preferred email addr.)
(home) donal@ugglan.demon.co.uk  Tel: +44-1274-401017   Mobile: +44-7957-298955
http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~fellowsd/  (Don't quote my .sig; I've seen it before!)



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From: Bob Montgomery <dante@kingcon.com>
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Depressing in some ways, but I'd wager that there could be some fantastic
and heroic storylines of the trials and travails in Novindus (with side
treks into lots of other plot lines, like more on the Hall of the Worlds
<G>), even though it does end in defeat (though we know from the Serpentwar
saga that the story does not end there).

Frankly I can't say the "depressing" angle is that strong of an argument to
not explore it; excitment and good reading are just as often not happy
endings, rose petal weddings and evil being defeated, right? :)

As far as having touched on much of it in the Serpentwar books, that makes
more sense. I can see that one, but it's been a while since I read SoaDQ and
the rest in this part of the story, so I don't remember everything that's
revealed, which is why I'm rereading them, of course :)

Also, how about a mini novel on Boldar Blood's adventures in the HotW, eh?
That would be great fun :)

> From: "Donal K. Fellows" <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk>
> Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 15:55:19 +0000
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
> Subject: Re: Honoured Enemy
> 
> Ray's decided not to do that one ("Return of the Buccaneer") for a
> mixture of reasons, initially to do with switching publishers, but
> also some of the material was then worked into the Serpentwar
> (particularly the appearance of Miranda, though it would have been
> somewhat similar to SoaDQ in the basic outline of the plot as well, so
> far as I can see.)  He says that the rest would have been pretty
> depressing, since it was a book about a crushing defeat with very few
> survivors.
> 
> Donal.



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Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 11:58:39 -0500
Subject: Re: Honoured Enemy
From: Bob Montgomery <dante@kingcon.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
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Actually, along those lines Ray, what are your feelings on other people
writing stories and adventures, just for fun of course, within the framework
and history of this world? I think it would be fun to write up things like
this just for kicks and to amuse my friends who also REF readers. Maybe you
should do a writing contest for your fans to submit short stories... I'd
take a shot at it :)

Further along those lines, I'm a trade magazine editor by trade, so once in
a while I catch typos in the books, and get a chuckle (since I know it
happens in our magazines, even though four or five people read things
through before they hit the page)... should I forward a list of those to the
publisher?

Just kidding around :)

> From: Bob Montgomery <dante@kingcon.com>
> Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 11:39:11 -0500
> To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
> Subject: Re: Honoured Enemy
> 
> Also, how about a mini novel on Boldar Blood's adventures in the HotW, eh?
> That would be great fun :)



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Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 09:02:16 -0800
Subject: Re: One thing which interests me quite enough to ask! :)
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 09:02:16 -0800
Subject: Re: One thing which interests me quite enough to ask! :)
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Thursday, January 10, 2002, at 02:01 AM, Michael Holzer wrote:

> Hi everyone!
>
> I've currently started to read the Kelewan Saga for
> the second time after having read all R.E.F books yet
> available here in Austria.
>
> And although i've already read it, i found myself
> really shaking and felt (it's "goose skin" in German)
> the cold running all over my body, when reading the
> more tragic and heroic parts of the first book. Now i
> have a question about this...
>
> Ray, after you wrote the book/saga - or better when
> you read it for yourself after completing it, did you
> feel the same "emotional reactions" at the
> tragic/heroic parts of it?

No.  Being "behind the scenes," as it were, when constructing it, is a 
very different experience than being in the audience watching the play.  
You appreciate the effect it has on the audience, but you don't share 
it.  The theater metaphor is based on having done my time in the fly 
loft, hanging lights and adjusting scenery, while checking out what my 
girlfriend was doing on stage, while the audience was watching the 
play.  Again, I can appreciate what my girlfriend was doing on the stage 
and the audience's reaction, but all the time I'm wondering if she's 
going to want to go out for something to eat after the show or just go 
home because she's tired.

>
> Is it hard for an author to really enjoy some books
> (from other authors) like we all do? Do you read those
> books "authorlike" - comparing the whole story to some
> own ones, searching for some minor/major problems in
> the structure of the other's created worlds? I could
> imagine that you read books differently to some
> "normal readers", cause you are an author by yourself
> and (perhaps?) see books not only as an amusement, but
> more like a "piece of work"...
>
I read like anyone else, what I enjoy.  I think it makes it hard for me 
to read as broadly as some people do, and I have a lot of trouble 
reading fantasy, because I'm pretty sick of it by the end of the work 
day, but I don't use my "editor" while reading.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 09:06:10 -0800
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 09:06:10 -0800
Subject: Re: Honoured Enemy
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Thursday, January 10, 2002, at 07:35 AM, Bob Montgomery wrote:

> We can read it, we just had to buy it from Amazon.uk :)
>
> I preordered it and had it the day it came out... read it about two 
> hours
> later and yes, it was great :)
>
> Fantastic, actually...
>
> Just rereading Shadow of a Dark Queen for fun, and remembering how 
> much I
> love this series, too... the gallows scene, even though I know what 
> happens,
> still gives me chills. Even though I just finished PotB and KB, it took 
> me a
> while to refresh the details, since the action is 20+ years in the 
> future
> from KB (24 or 25, right? I think that's what Calis says a couple of 
> times).
>
> Speaking of which, a question for Ray on that storyline: we hear several
> times about the fairly large force that Calis and Bobby took to Novindus
> after Nicolas' trip in KB (2K troops or so), a group that subsequently 
> got
> wiped out, but it's only referenced as history. Any plans to flesh that
> story out as another book?
>
> ("Calis' Crimson Eagles: Attack of the Pantathian Clones" *grin* 
> KIDDING!)
>
> Just curious. There's a great deal to explore in that one, I'd wager.
>

No.  That book was going to be Return of the Buccaneer, but I switched 
publishers and Avon didn't want to start me off with a sequel to a book 
being published by Bantam.  So I started with the Serpentwar and used 
most of the relevant data in RotB as "back story."

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 12:15:19 -0500
From: wilsonm80@netscape.net
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Hi and two questions
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Sorry about the overlong lines previously: I'd forgotten, and Netscape
doesn't keep track for me. I hope this one formats correctly. Anyway, 
thanks for the answers, to Ray and Erik.

Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com> wrote:
>On Wednesday, January 9, 2002, at 08:55 AM, 
>wilsonm80@netscape.net wrote:

[snip]

>> To recap, it's either
>> 1.) Nalar is local but unusually powerful;
>> 2.) Nalar is local and so were the Chaos Wars;
>> 3.) Nalar is universal.
>>
>> What is it?
>
>Short answer.  "Evil" is universal, but Nalar is the "local" 
>manifestation of evil in the Midkemian space/time.

I think I gotcha. Maybe this covers a possibility I hadn't considered:

4.) Nalar was not entirely responsible for the Chaos Wars.

This would be the case if he himself was only the tool of the 
universal manifestation of "Evil," which needn't be a conscious 
being. It could even be just an abstract concept. Then the Chaos 
Wars would have simply been the aggregate of lots of individual 
beings causing chaos, coincidentally at about the same time.

>> P.S. I'm a Niven reader also, which is one reason I'm poking so 
>> vigorously at what some may consider a minor detail--Nivenesque 
>> tradition sometimes allows one to extrapolate details of a universe
>> unknown to the author at the time of writing, and occasionally have
>> them become part of the "real" universe when the author uses 
>> those details. "The Ringworld is unstable!"
>>
>
>Ya, but Larry makes it up as he goes.  Ringworld was originally the 
>world's longest shaggy dog story, i.e. the gene that gave Teela 
>Brown "luck" bent the entire universes's history so that she would 
>eventually end up in the safest place in the cosmos.  Then some 
>year's later Larry gets a while hair and creates a story where she 
>turns into a Pak Protector, not exactly a risk-free job.  I twitted him 
>about that one and he just grinned at me.  Sometimes we have no 
>overarching sense of our universes. Other times we know exactly 
>what we're doing.  And sometimes we even have a clue which is 
>which.

That's true. He's described his works as a "playground for the mind,"
and I like his essays ("The Theory and Practice of Teleportation") just
as much as his stories because they're essentially the same thing
in terms of ideas. However, Niven's retcons are intended to maintain
consistency, and some retcons are even introduced specifically to
make things "fit" together. ("Down In Flames" is not taken as "real"
in part because it conflicts with the assumptions used in Ringworld,
i.e. the Long Shot works.) BTW, one rationale given in RE for Teela
turning into a Protector is that it wasn't her luck at all, rather that
she was being manipulated by someone else's luck (the people she would
save as a Protector). That's just a hypothesis, though, and Teela herself
states as a Protector that she doesn't believe in luck. I concur, but the
subject's open.

That's why the Midkemian designed universe reminds me of Niven's
writing, because Midkemia--as far as I can see--is designed to be
self-consistent, and the architects are more willing to resolve with
inconsistencies than to say, "Well, it's just a story." (Although
fixing simple errors like Patrick being Erland's son is quite acceptable).

Regards,
Wilson
-- 




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Subject: Re: Honoured Enemy
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Subject: Re: Honoured Enemy
From: Bob Montgomery <dante@kingcon.com>
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Hi Ray!

That makes sense. Too bad about it, in a way, but on the flip side, it adds
a real dense layer of history within SoaDQ that helps propel the story along
nicely. There's such an undercurrent of desperation in the middle section of
the book during the return to Novindus, not only in the ranks of the 'dead
men' but with Calis, Bobby and the other who were there the first time...
one of the things I really love about that book is this incredible tension
and lack of surety on the part of even the most central characters. It makes
for electric reading :)

Was up reading for about three hours last night because SoaDQ is just one of
those books you cannot put down for huge chunks of reading because of how
good it is... 

> From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
> Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 09:06:10 -0800
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
> Subject: Re: Honoured Enemy
> 
> No.  That book was going to be Return of the Buccaneer, but I switched
> publishers and Avon didn't want to start me off with a sequel to a book
> being published by Bantam.  So I started with the Serpentwar and used
> most of the relevant data in RotB as "back story."
> 
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
> 
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
> stupidity.
> 



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Subject: Re: Honoured Enemy
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 14:08:16 -0500
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From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Honoured Enemy
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 14:08:16 -0500
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Yeah. Empire Strikes Back ends in defeat for the good guys, yet it was a 
great story.

I'd love to read Return of the Buccaneer. Ray mentioned that there would be 
a bit of Patrick O'brian in it. As long as it ws not toooo much like 
O'brian, it would be great, IMHO. I like O'brian, mostly because I worked on 
Tall Ships for several years.

I certainly do like some of ray's books bette than others, but I have yet to 
read one I did not like. Plus, if it is a publisher issue, one would think 
Ray could use the Publisher that he is using for the Legends series. So what 
if us Yanks have to order for Amazon.co.uk for return of the Buccaneer too.

Adieu

Jimmy

>From: Bob Montgomery <dante@kingcon.com>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
>Subject: Re: Honoured Enemy
>Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 11:39:11 -0500
>
>Depressing in some ways, but I'd wager that there could be some fantastic
>and heroic storylines of the trials and travails in Novindus (with side
>treks into lots of other plot lines, like more on the Hall of the Worlds
><G>), even though it does end in defeat (though we know from the Serpentwar
>saga that the story does not end there).
>
>Frankly I can't say the "depressing" angle is that strong of an argument to
>not explore it; excitment and good reading are just as often not happy
>endings, rose petal weddings and evil being defeated, right? :)
>
>As far as having touched on much of it in the Serpentwar books, that makes
>more sense. I can see that one, but it's been a while since I read SoaDQ 
>and
>the rest in this part of the story, so I don't remember everything that's
>revealed, which is why I'm rereading them, of course :)
>
>Also, how about a mini novel on Boldar Blood's adventures in the HotW, eh?
>That would be great fun :)
>
> > From: "Donal K. Fellows" <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk>
> > Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 15:55:19 +0000
> > To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
> > Subject: Re: Honoured Enemy
> >
> > Ray's decided not to do that one ("Return of the Buccaneer") for a
> > mixture of reasons, initially to do with switching publishers, but
> > also some of the material was then worked into the Serpentwar
> > (particularly the appearance of Miranda, though it would have been
> > somewhat similar to SoaDQ in the basic outline of the plot as well, so
> > far as I can see.)  He says that the rest would have been pretty
> > depressing, since it was a book about a crushing defeat with very few
> > survivors.
> >
> > Donal.
>


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From: "cory williamson" <corywillfcb@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Faerie Tale
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I'm sure this has been answered before, but are there any known plans to 
follow up "Faerie Tale"? If this is answered on the web site I apologise(sp) 
I can't find it. Also, where is the rogues gallery? I couldn't find it 
either. Thanks in advance for your assistance.
Cory



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Subject: Re: One thing which interests me quite enough to ask! :)
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From: "Jason Mulligan" <sulimo@bigpond.net.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: One thing which interests me quite enough to ask! :)
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On 10/01/2002 at 11:01 AM Michael Holzer wrote:

>Is it hard for an author to really enjoy some books
>(from other authors) like we all do? Do you read those
>books "authorlike" - comparing the whole story to some
>own ones, searching for some minor/major problems in
>the structure of the other's created worlds? I could
>imagine that you read books differently to some
>"normal readers", cause you are an author by yourself
>and (perhaps?) see books not only as an amusement, but
>more like a "piece of work"...

I wouldnt be surprised. 

I know that since doing a few Film classes at uni I havent really watched 
films the same way as I used to. It would be even worse I suspect if I was actually 
involved in producing them. 

o



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Subject: Re: One thing which interests me quite enough to ask! :)
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Subject: Re: One thing which interests me quite enough to ask! :)
From: Bob Montgomery <dante@kingcon.com>
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It's true to a certain extent... I edit magazines all day, and I know I read
magazines and newpapers with a very critical eye for both text and layout,
unless I force myself to turn off those automatic mental settings (which I
try to do, because the local papers in my area are awful). I have to do it
for books as well, but it's usually not as problematic, as books are edited
and read far more times, with a much larger time frame than say a monthly
magazine (I know from experience *smile*).

Musicians do the same thing... we all all listen to music differently than
non musicians, because we hear and know different things. Doesn't mean it's
better, just a change of perspective.

> From: "Jason Mulligan" <sulimo@bigpond.net.au>
> Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 07:20:29 +1100
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
> Subject: Re: One thing which interests me quite enough to ask! :)
> 
> I wouldnt be surprised.
> 
> I know that since doing a few Film classes at uni I havent really watched
> films the same way as I used to. It would be even worse I suspect if I was
> actually 
> involved in producing them.
> 
> o



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From: John <john@crydee.com>
Subject: Re: Faerie Tale
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cory williamson <corywillfcb@hotmail.com> writes
>
>
Http://www.crydee.com/feist/feistfans/feistfansindex.htm

hit the rogues gallery button, and cover your eyes <G>
-- 
John

john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.

Raymond E Feist Ring
http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm



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Subject: Ray website
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Hi All,

On the spur of the moment I typed the following into my web browser
"http://www.raymondfeist.com "
all I got was a holder page (no content).

Is this domian owned by someone on the list or by Ray himself ?

Will there be any content in the future ?

Regards,

Brad



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Subject: Re:  Faerie Tale
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>hit the rogues gallery button, and cover your eyes <G>
>-- 
>John
>

 Hey! We resemble that remark! 

  Anita


 'Every happy ending needs to have a start.'

___________________________________________________________________
Join the Space Program: Get FREE E-mail at http://www.space.com.



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Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 17:37:58 -0800
Subject: Re: Honoured Enemy
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Thursday, January 10, 2002, at 08:58 AM, Bob Montgomery wrote:

> Actually, along those lines Ray, what are your feelings on other people
> writing stories and adventures, just for fun of course, within the 
> framework
> and history of this world? I think it would be fun to write up things 
> like
> this just for kicks and to amuse my friends who also REF readers. Maybe 
> you
> should do a writing contest for your fans to submit short stories... I'd
> take a shot at it :)

This is covered in the FAQ.  Fan fiction is expressly prohibited, for a 
variety of reasons, but firstmost is that it's a copyright infringement 
that creates potential problems for me.

>
> Further along those lines, I'm a trade magazine editor by trade, so 
> once in
> a while I catch typos in the books, and get a chuckle (since I know it
> happens in our magazines, even though four or five people read things
> through before they hit the page)... should I forward a list of those 
> to the
> publisher?
>

If you'd like.  They have to reset type when they go from hardcover to 
paperback, so that's the time to get those corrections in.

Best,R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Thanks...Of course I found it about 10 min after I asked for help.  :| But I 
appreciate it anyway. :)

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.



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sorry---I didn't mean to mass mail that!

>From: "cory williamson" <corywillfcb@hotmail.com>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
>Subject: Re: Faerie Tale
>Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 19:57:44 -0600
>
>
>
>
>Thanks...Of course I found it about 10 min after I asked for help.  :| But 
>I
>appreciate it anyway. :)
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.
>




_________________________________________________________________
Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
http://www.hotmail.com



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Most of us in the U.S. ordered it from Amazon UK, and read it months ago 
when it first came out.




At 10:51 PM 1/10/2002 +0800, Nevyn wrote:
>It is a shame you guys in the US dont get to read Honoured Enemy, I just 
>finished the hardback and it was grrreat :o)
>Good work Ray and William.

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Subject: Re: Honoured Enemy
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From: LAR <lds627@attbi.com>
Subject: Re: Honoured Enemy
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Check the FAQ. Contests are rare, and to date have not included FanFic. For 
various reasons, legal and otherwise, Ray has clearly stated that he is 
against FanFic in his world, and if he becomes aware of it will take steps 
towards cease and desist.

Larry


At 11:58 AM 1/10/2002 -0500, Bob Montgomery wrote:
>Actually, along those lines Ray, what are your feelings on other people
>writing stories and adventures, just for fun of course, within the framework
>and history of this world? I think it would be fun to write up things like
>this just for kicks and to amuse my friends who also REF readers. Maybe you
>should do a writing contest for your fans to submit short stories... I'd
>take a shot at it :)
>
>Further along those lines, I'm a trade magazine editor by trade, so once in
>a while I catch typos in the books, and get a chuckle (since I know it
>happens in our magazines, even though four or five people read things
>through before they hit the page)... should I forward a list of those to the
>publisher?
>
>Just kidding around :)
>
> > From: Bob Montgomery <dante@kingcon.com>
> > Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 11:39:11 -0500
> > To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
> > Subject: Re: Honoured Enemy
> >
> > Also, how about a mini novel on Boldar Blood's adventures in the HotW, eh?
> > That would be great fun :)



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Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 22:00:56 -0500
Subject: Re: Honoured Enemy
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From: Bob Montgomery <dante@kingcon.com>
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Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 22:00:56 -0500
Subject: Re: Honoured Enemy
From: Bob Montgomery <dante@kingcon.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
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> From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>

> This is covered in the FAQ.  Fan fiction is expressly prohibited, for a
> variety of reasons, but firstmost is that it's a copyright infringement
> that creates potential problems for me.

Sorry, hadn't seen that part of the Crydee site... I'm aware of many of the
copyright issues involved because I'm in the publishing industry. Apologies.
No offense intended. I have no intention of treading on your copyrights, be
assured. An attempt at light humor, ill translated via e-message once again.

> If you'd like.  They have to reset type when they go from hardcover to
> paperback, so that's the time to get those corrections in.

I was definately kidding about submitting typos to any publishers, and
thought I'd made that clear... apparently not. I know my publisher simply
chuckles when someone has the gall to send in a page from one of the
magazines with a typo circled in red pen. Even if I do notice something,
more often than not, I simply chuckle and gloss over it. I do it all day at
work, so I try not to do it off the clock, so to speak. Incidently, though,
I tend to find more typos in King's hardcovers than most others', but I
think it's because of his sheer volume of words.



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Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 22:03:50 -0500
Subject: Re: Honoured Enemy
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From: Bob Montgomery <dante@kingcon.com>
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Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 22:03:50 -0500
Subject: Re: Honoured Enemy
From: Bob Montgomery <dante@kingcon.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
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Yeah, he's made me aware of that... Just joined the list a couple weeks ago,
and even though I've visited John's Crydee site off an on for many years,
I'd never thought to check out his FanFic link.

Consider the discussion closed. No need for anyone else to point out that
it's in the FAQ. I goofed and missed that part. A thousand apologies...

> From: LAR <lds627@attbi.com>
> Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 18:42:29 -0800
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu, <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
> Subject: Re: Honoured Enemy
> 
> Check the FAQ. Contests are rare, and to date have not included FanFic. For
> various reasons, legal and otherwise, Ray has clearly stated that he is
> against FanFic in his world, and if he becomes aware of it will take steps
> towards cease and desist.



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Subject: raymondfeist website
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*** EOOH ***
From: Brad_A_Krahe@allegiance.com.au
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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 14:30:55 +1100
Subject: raymondfeist website
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Hi All,

I tired sending this message 2 hours ago but from my end bounced back so
sorry to those people who already recieved it.

Came across the following site, "http://www.raymondfeist.com" though the
only web page displayed was a server message stating that there was no
content.

My question is, does anyone on the list (Ray or otherwise) own that domain,
will there be any content added ?

Thanks a bunch,

Brad



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Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 20:41:23 -0700
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Honoured Enemy
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LAR wrote:
> 
> Check the FAQ. Contests are rare, and to date have not included FanFic. For
> various reasons, legal and otherwise, Ray has clearly stated that he is
> against FanFic in his world, and if he becomes aware of it will take steps
> towards cease and desist.

Well, I can understand why he doesn't allow it. Myself, I write fan
fiction for Dragonlance occassionally, and I find it a good way to work
out ideas and to practice my writing, if only that fellow fans and
friends will read it. :)

Craig J. Ries



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Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 00:53:06 -0800
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu, <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
From: LAR <lds627@attbi.com>
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At 10:03 PM 1/10/2002 -0500, Bob Montgomery wrote:
>Yeah, he's made me aware of that... Just joined the list a couple weeks ago,
>and even though I've visited John's Crydee site off an on for many years,
>I'd never thought to check out his FanFic link.
>
>Consider the discussion closed. No need for anyone else to point out that
>it's in the FAQ. I goofed and missed that part. A thousand apologies...
>
> >


No apologies needed, we are a pretty forgiving bunch. (Except when people 
try and tell Ray he is wrong about his own work. Then we damn, what a 
pathetic loser. OK, we say that about FAQ stuff too, but not publicly <G>)

Larry



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In-reply-to: <CA256B3E.00124C73.00@mailgate.allegiance.com.au>
	(Brad_A_Krahe@allegiance.com.au)
Subject: Re: raymondfeist website
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Donal K. Fellows" <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: raymondfeist website
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 10:31:31 +0000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Brad_A_Krahe@allegiance.com.au
> Came across the following site, "http://www.raymondfeist.com" though the
> only web page displayed was a server message stating that there was no
> content.
> 
> My question is, does anyone on the list (Ray or otherwise) own that domain,
> will there be any content added ?

No sooner said than done (see below.)  That domain seems to be owned
by a Michael Kindell but I've no idea if he's holding it for Ray,
holding it for some other Raymond Feist, or a squatter.  (The whois
databases do not record the reasons for someone registering a domain
name, alas, and I've no desire to enter into any correspondence
whatsoever with squatters.)

I don't have the admin privileges to see if he is a list member.  <g>

Donal.
----SESSION-LOG-FOLLOWS----
$ whois raymondfeist.com

Whois Server Version 1.3

Domain names in the .com, .net, and .org domains can now be registered
with many different competing registrars. Go to http://www.internic.net
for detailed information.

   Domain Name: RAYMONDFEIST.COM
   Registrar: INNERWISE, INC. D/B/A ITSYOURDOMAIN.COM
   Whois Server: whois.itsyourdomain.com
   Referral URL: http://www.itsyourdomain.com
   Name Server: DNS15.REGISTER.COM
   Name Server: DNS16.REGISTER.COM
   Updated Date: 05-nov-2001


>>> Last update of whois database: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 17:02:23 EST <<<

The Registry database contains ONLY .COM, .NET, .ORG, .EDU domains and
Registrars.

$ whois -h whois.itsyourdomain.com raymondfeist.com
The Data in our WHOIS database is provided by
us for information purposes, and to assist persons
in obtaining information about or related to a domain name registration
record.  We do not guarantee its accuracy.  By
submitting a WHOIS query, you agree that you will use this Data only
for lawful purposes and that, under no circumstances will you use this
Data to: (1) allow, enable, or otherwise support the transmission of mass
unsolicited, commercial advertising or solicitations via e-mail
(spam); or  (2) enable high volume, automated, electronic processes
that apply to us, our systems, or our customers.  We
reserve the right to modify these terms at any time.  By submitting
this query, you agree to abide by this policy.

Registrant:
   Michael Kindell
   938 Amsden
   Denison, TX  75020
   US

   Domain: RAYMONDFEIST.COM

   Administrative Contact:
      Michael Kindell (MK56-IYD) kindell@compuserve.com
      Wonderkin
      938 Amsden
      Denison, TX  75020 US
      903 465 8377

   Technical Contact:
      Michael Kindell (MK56-IYD) kindell@compuserve.com
      Wonderkin
      938 Amsden
      Denison, TX  75020 US
      903 465 8377

   Billing Contact:
      Michael Kindell (MK56-IYD) kindell@compuserve.com
      Wonderkin
      938 Amsden
      Denison, TX  75020 US
      903 465 8377

   Created: 02/04/2000
   Updated: 11/14/2001
   Expires: 02/04/2002

   Domain Name Servers in listed order:

      DNS15.REGISTER.COM
      DNS16.REGISTER.COM
-- 
Donal K. Fellows, Department of Computer Science, University of Manchester, UK.
(work) fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk     Tel: +44-161-275-6137  (preferred email addr.)
(home) donal@ugglan.demon.co.uk  Tel: +44-1274-401017   Mobile: +44-7957-298955
http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~fellowsd/  (Don't quote my .sig; I've seen it before!)



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From: "A Irving" <aignome@dingoblue.net.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
References:  <CA256B3E.00124C73.00@mailgate.allegiance.com.au> <E16OyyB-0007T6-00@athene>
Subject: OT: Re: raymondfeist website
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 20:44:59 +1000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "A Irving" <aignome@dingoblue.net.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: OT: Re: raymondfeist website
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 20:44:59 +1000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I did a whois search and brought up teh first piece of info, but not the
rest, what search did you use, and if possible, what is the url? (or telnet
command).
From: Donal K. Fellows <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2002 8:31 PM
Subject: Re: raymondfeist website


> Brad_A_Krahe@allegiance.com.au
> > Came across the following site, "http://www.raymondfeist.com" though the
> > only web page displayed was a server message stating that there was no
> > content.
> >
> > My question is, does anyone on the list (Ray or otherwise) own that domain,
> > will there be any content added ?
>
> No sooner said than done (see below.)  That domain seems to be owned
> by a Michael Kindell but I've no idea if he's holding it for Ray,
> holding it for some other Raymond Feist, or a squatter.  (The whois
> databases do not record the reasons for someone registering a domain
> name, alas, and I've no desire to enter into any correspondence
> whatsoever with squatters.)
>
> I don't have the admin privileges to see if he is a list member.  <g>
>
> Donal.
> ----SESSION-LOG-FOLLOWS----
> $ whois raymondfeist.com
>
> Whois Server Version 1.3
>
> Domain names in the .com, .net, and .org domains can now be registered
> with many different competing registrars. Go to http://www.internic.net
> for detailed information.
>
>    Domain Name: RAYMONDFEIST.COM
>    Registrar: INNERWISE, INC. D/B/A ITSYOURDOMAIN.COM
>    Whois Server: whois.itsyourdomain.com
>    Referral URL: http://www.itsyourdomain.com
>    Name Server: DNS15.REGISTER.COM
>    Name Server: DNS16.REGISTER.COM
>    Updated Date: 05-nov-2001
>
>
> >>> Last update of whois database: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 17:02:23 EST <<<
>
> The Registry database contains ONLY .COM, .NET, .ORG, .EDU domains and
> Registrars.
>
> $ whois -h whois.itsyourdomain.com raymondfeist.com
> The Data in our WHOIS database is provided by
> us for information purposes, and to assist persons
> in obtaining information about or related to a domain name registration
> record.  We do not guarantee its accuracy.  By
> submitting a WHOIS query, you agree that you will use this Data only
> for lawful purposes and that, under no circumstances will you use this
> Data to: (1) allow, enable, or otherwise support the transmission of mass
> unsolicited, commercial advertising or solicitations via e-mail
> (spam); or  (2) enable high volume, automated, electronic processes
> that apply to us, our systems, or our customers.  We
> reserve the right to modify these terms at any time.  By submitting
> this query, you agree to abide by this policy.
>
> Registrant:
>    Michael Kindell
>    938 Amsden
>    Denison, TX  75020
>    US
>
>    Domain: RAYMONDFEIST.COM
>
>    Administrative Contact:
>       Michael Kindell (MK56-IYD) kindell@compuserve.com
>       Wonderkin
>       938 Amsden
>       Denison, TX  75020 US
>       903 465 8377
>
>    Technical Contact:
>       Michael Kindell (MK56-IYD) kindell@compuserve.com
>       Wonderkin
>       938 Amsden
>       Denison, TX  75020 US
>       903 465 8377
>
>    Billing Contact:
>       Michael Kindell (MK56-IYD) kindell@compuserve.com
>       Wonderkin
>       938 Amsden
>       Denison, TX  75020 US
>       903 465 8377
>
>    Created: 02/04/2000
>    Updated: 11/14/2001
>    Expires: 02/04/2002
>
>    Domain Name Servers in listed order:
>
>       DNS15.REGISTER.COM
>       DNS16.REGISTER.COM
> --
> Donal K. Fellows, Department of Computer Science, University of Manchester, UK.
> (work) fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk     Tel: +44-161-275-6137  (preferred email addr.)
> (home) donal@ugglan.demon.co.uk  Tel: +44-1274-401017   Mobile: +44-7957-298955
> http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~fellowsd/  (Don't quote my .sig; I've seen it before!)
>



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From: Nathan <nathan@irish4ever.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Magician
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 04:13:31 -0800 (PST)
From: Nathan <nathan@irish4ever.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Magician
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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When can we expect "Magician 20th Anniversary Edition"?
What special features will it have?

And one different question:
Is it still possible to buy hardcover editions of books from Riftwar
Saga? I mean unused and through Internet stores.

Best regards

Father Nathan

_____________________________________________________________
Get your Free, Permanent, and Private Irish Email Today!
---------- http://www.irish4ever.com -----------



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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Larry Siegel <larry@psihawk.com>
Subject: Re: Magician
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 09:00:48 -0500
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Larry Siegel <larry@psihawk.com>
Subject: Re: Magician
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

At 04:13 AM 1/11/02 -0800, you wrote:
>When can we expect "Magician 20th Anniversary Edition"?
>What special features will it have?

Why do I feel like he expects a DVD version of the book? :)

>And one different question:
>Is it still possible to buy hardcover editions of books from Riftwar Saga? 
>I mean unused and through Internet stores.

Sure it is, depending on how much $$ you have to spend.

>Best regards
>
>Father Nathan



Larry

..... aka PsiHawk

My Homepage
http://www.psihawk.com

Raymond E. Feist FAQ
http://www.psihawk.com/feist



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From: Kenneth Jones <killkenny@thos.co.za>
Subject: Re: Magician
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 16:20:04 +0200
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Kenneth Jones <killkenny@thos.co.za>
Subject: Re: Magician
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

At 04:13 AM 1/11/02 -0800, you wrote:
>When can we expect "Magician 20th Anniversary Edition"?
>What special features will it have?

You can check it out here: 
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0007134118/o/qid=1010758720/sr=8-2/ref=sr_aps_b_1_2/202-6594496-1478211. 

Or for a pic : 
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0007123280/o/qid=1010758720/sr=8-3/ref=sr_aps_b_1_3/202-6594496-1478211

With regards to features, No Clue!


>And one different question:
>Is it still possible to buy hardcover editions of books from Riftwar Saga? 
>I mean unused and through Internet stores.

If by unused, you mean brand new, then no. If you mean unread or in mint 
condition, yes, but it will cost you a hell of a lot of money.


>Best regards
>
>Father Nathan
>
>_____________________________________________________________
>Get your Free, Permanent, and Private Irish Email Today!
>---------- http://www.irish4ever.com -----------



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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
In-reply-to: <000f01c19a8d$05441a20$f1f6fea9@oemcomputer>
	(aignome@dingoblue.net.au)
Subject: Re: OT: Re: raymondfeist website
References: <CA256B3E.00124C73.00@mailgate.allegiance.com.au> <E16OyyB-0007T6-00@athene> <000f01c19a8d$05441a20$f1f6fea9@oemcomputer>
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From: "Donal K. Fellows" <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT: Re: raymondfeist website
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 14:38:23 +0000
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"A Irving" <aignome@dingoblue.net.au>
> I did a whois search and brought up teh first piece of info, but not the
> rest, what search did you use, and if possible, what is the url? (or telnet
> command).

I use my system's whois command, which probably just talks some simple
protocol to some well defined port number (no idea what it is though;
betcha Google could tell you the details though.)  Tricky bits are
outlined below:

> > $ whois raymondfeist.com
[... Blah-blah-blah, not authoritative, but says who is ...]
> >    Whois Server: whois.itsyourdomain.com
[... See?  Try asking them like this using a command option ...]
> > $ whois -h whois.itsyourdomain.com raymondfeist.com
[... Paydirt! ...]

(I happened to know about this because our system whois command used
to prefer to look up with the registrar for the .gov and .mil domains,
not much use for most people.)

Donal.
-- 
Donal K. Fellows, Department of Computer Science, University of Manchester, UK.
(work) fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk     Tel: +44-161-275-6137  (preferred email addr.)
(home) donal@ugglan.demon.co.uk  Tel: +44-1274-401017   Mobile: +44-7957-298955
http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~fellowsd/  (Don't quote my .sig; I've seen it before!)



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Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 08:04:56 -0800
Subject: Re: Magician
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Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 08:04:56 -0800
Subject: Re: Magician
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Friday, January 11, 2002, at 04:13 AM, Nathan wrote:

> When can we expect "Magician 20th Anniversary Edition"?
> What special features will it have?

Probably the only new thing in it will be a page or two "Preface" to go 
along with the two previous ones.  I'm not changing anything.  This is 
only for people who want a hardcover of Magician and don't want to pay 
collector's prices.
>
> And one different question:
> Is it still possible to buy hardcover editions of books from Riftwar 
> Saga? I mean unused and through Internet stores.
>

No.  A hardcover book tends to disappear when the paperback edition 
comes out.  There are a few rare exceptions, but that's the general 
rule.  We re-released some hardcover anniversary editions at Bantam in 
1992, but that was a one-shot.  As Bantam is not my publisher any more, 
they are not interested in doing it again.  At this time there are no 
plans for a US 20th Anniversary edition of Magician.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 08:34:54 -0800
Subject: Re: Magician
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Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 08:34:54 -0800
Subject: Re: Magician
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Friday, January 11, 2002, at 06:20 AM, Kenneth Jones wrote:

> At 04:13 AM 1/11/02 -0800, you wrote:
>> When can we expect "Magician 20th Anniversary Edition"?
>> What special features will it have?
>
> You can check it out here: 
> http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0007134118/o/qid=1010758720/sr=8-2/
> ref=sr_aps_b_1_2/202-6594496-1478211.
> Or for a pic : 
> http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0007123280/o/qid=1010758720/sr=8-3/
> ref=sr_aps_b_1_3/202-6594496-1478211

Actually, that picture is not of the 20th Anniversary edition, but 
rather the Voyager Classics edition, which is a collection of SF/F 
titles published by HarperCollins Voyager they consider "classics."

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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From: John <john@crydee.com>
Subject: Re: Magician
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 <F494C34C-06AC-11D6-9DD7-003065A8A644@bittersea.com>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 18:55:26 +0000
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: John <john@crydee.com>
Subject: Re: Magician
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Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com> writes
>
>On Friday, January 11, 2002, at 04:13 AM, Nathan wrote:
>
>> When can we expect "Magician 20th Anniversary Edition"?
>> What special features will it have?
>
>Probably the only new thing in it will be a page or two "Preface" to go 
>along with the two previous ones.  I'm not changing anything.  This is 
>only for people who want a hardcover of Magician and don't want to pay 
>collector's prices.


Further info from the editor :)

Yes, we're still going for a 20th anniversary MAGICIAN -- probably just 
a
limited hardback, rather than leather-bound. It's scheduled for 
September
2002.
-- 
John

john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.

Raymond E Feist Ring
http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm



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Subject: Re: Magician
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From: Bob Montgomery <dante@kingcon.com>
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Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 14:32:08 -0500
Subject: Re: Magician
From: Bob Montgomery <dante@kingcon.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
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Sounds great! The leather-bound would be neat, but my two trade paperbacks
are getting a little dogearred after all these years of reading, so any sort
of hardcover (that doesn't require me to remortgage my house) would be
wonderful.

> From: John <john@crydee.com>
> Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 18:55:26 +0000
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
> Subject: Re: Magician
> 
> Further info from the editor :)
> 
> Yes, we're still going for a 20th anniversary MAGICIAN -- probably just
> a
> limited hardback, rather than leather-bound. It's scheduled for
> September
> 2002.
> -- 
> John
> 
> john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
> http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.
> 
> Raymond E Feist Ring
> http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm
> 



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Is that US and everywhere or will it be limited to certain areas? Enquiring 
minds want to know. ;)


>From: Bob Montgomery <dante@kingcon.com>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
>Subject: Re: Magician
>Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 14:32:08 -0500
>
>Sounds great! The leather-bound would be neat, but my two trade paperbacks
>are getting a little dogearred after all these years of reading, so any 
>sort
>of hardcover (that doesn't require me to remortgage my house) would be
>wonderful.
>
> > From: John <john@crydee.com>
> > Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 18:55:26 +0000
> > To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
> > Subject: Re: Magician
> >
> > Further info from the editor :)
> >
> > Yes, we're still going for a 20th anniversary MAGICIAN -- probably just
> > a
> > limited hardback, rather than leather-bound. It's scheduled for
> > September
> > 2002.
> > --
> > John
> >
> > john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
> > http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.
> >
> > Raymond E Feist Ring
> > http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm
> >
>




_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com



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To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
References: <F494C34C-06AC-11D6-9DD7-003065A8A644@bittersea.com>
Subject: Re: Magician
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 14:01:04 -0600
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Magician
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 14:01:04 -0600
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

    Are we allowed to "shoot" your US publisher?  This is getting
REALLY annoying that they aren't picking up your material.  This
makes the fourth book (3 new + a requested re-release) that they
will miss and numerous ones that we get as 2nds (thinking Krondor
and the Conclave series sets).  Given that we officially claim you
as a US author seems kind of strange.

-James  (If we can't "shoot" him/her/it can we just kick them REALLY
HARD some how?)

----- Original Message -----

> No.  A hardcover book tends to disappear when the paperback edition
> comes out.  There are a few rare exceptions, but that's the general
> rule.  We re-released some hardcover anniversary editions at Bantam
> in 1992, but that was a one-shot.  As Bantam is not my publisher any
> more, they are not interested in doing it again.  At this time there are
> no plans for a US 20th Anniversary edition of Magician.
>
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
>
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
> stupidity.
>



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Subject: Re: Magician
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From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Magician
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 14:02:03 -0600
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That will be UK not US...see my previous post for my opinion on the
matter.

-James

----- Original Message -----
From: "cory williamson" <corywillfcb@hotmail.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2002 1:53 PM
Subject: Re: Magician


> Is that US and everywhere or will it be limited to certain areas? Enquiring
> minds want to know. ;)



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From: "cory williamson" <corywillfcb@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re: Magician
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From: "cory williamson" <corywillfcb@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re: Magician
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 14:30:31 -0600
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Well, I agree with you we need to do something about this. What is the logig 
behind no US publication? Also, are there series that haven't been published 
US at all? I looked at the book lising on the web site(US & UK) they looked 
the same to me.


>From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
>Subject: Re: Magician
>Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 14:01:04 -0600
>
>     Are we allowed to "shoot" your US publisher?  This is getting
>REALLY annoying that they aren't picking up your material.  This
>makes the fourth book (3 new + a requested re-release) that they
>will miss and numerous ones that we get as 2nds (thinking Krondor
>and the Conclave series sets).  Given that we officially claim you
>as a US author seems kind of strange.
>
>-James  (If we can't "shoot" him/her/it can we just kick them REALLY
>HARD some how?)
>
>----- Original Message -----
>
> > No.  A hardcover book tends to disappear when the paperback
>edition > comes out.  There are a few rare exceptions, but that's
>the general
> > rule.  We re-released some hardcover anniversary editions at
>Bantam
> > in 1992, but that was a one-shot.  As Bantam is not my publisher
>any
> > more, they are not interested in doing it again.  At this time
>there are
> > no plans for a US 20th Anniversary edition of Magician.
> >
> > Best, R.E.F.
> > ----
> >
> > Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained
>away by
> > stupidity.
> >
>




_________________________________________________________________
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Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 20:49:19 +0000
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: John <john@crydee.com>
Subject: Re: Magician
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James Young <jajy@earthlink.net> writes
>    Are we allowed to "shoot" your US publisher?  This is getting
>REALLY annoying that they aren't picking up your material.  This
>makes the fourth book (3 new + a requested re-release) that they
>will miss and numerous ones that we get as 2nds (thinking Krondor
>and the Conclave series sets).  Given that we officially claim you
>as a US author seems kind of strange.
>
You need to convince Doubleday to produce Magician not Harper Collins

-- 
John

john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.

Raymond E Feist Ring
http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm



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From: "Mic Olafson" <tbird7775@hotmail.com>
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Ray i was not trying to question your work i was just trying to understand. 
I have been a fan of your for close to 10 years now
i am re-reading Magian for the 7th time. I love all your books
thank you for the hours of enjoyment.

Mic Olafson


_________________________________________________________________
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Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 13:44:10 -0800
Subject: Re: Magician
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Friday, January 11, 2002, at 12:49 PM, John wrote:

> James Young <jajy@earthlink.net> writes
>>    Are we allowed to "shoot" your US publisher?  This is getting
>> REALLY annoying that they aren't picking up your material.  This
>> makes the fourth book (3 new + a requested re-release) that they
>> will miss and numerous ones that we get as 2nds (thinking Krondor
>> and the Conclave series sets).  Given that we officially claim you
>> as a US author seems kind of strange.
>>
> You need to convince Doubleday to produce Magician not Harper Collins
>

Doubleday doesn't hold those rights any more.  I have those rights.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 14:57:29 -0700
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
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Raymond Feist wrote:
> 
> Doubleday doesn't hold those rights any more.  I have those rights.

Is it a little frustrating for you, Ray, to have gone through so many
different publishers?

Craig J. Ries



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Earlier I was asking if there were any series that were not published i US. 
I also said I did check the series lists. Did I ask a no-no question or 
what? If this info is somewhere else I would appreciate some guidance. I am 
new to this ring so if I'm stepping on toes or not following some rules 
please let me know.

Thanks for your help.

Cory

_________________________________________________________________
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From: Nathan <nathan@irish4ever.com>
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Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 14:42:57 -0800 (PST)
From: Nathan <nathan@irish4ever.com>
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--- Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com> wrote:
>> When can we expect "Magician 20th Anniversary Edition"?
>> What special features will it have?
>
>Probably the only new thing in it will be a page or two "Preface" to go 
>along with the two previous ones.  I'm not changing anything.  This is 
>only for people who want a hardcover of Magician and don't want to pay 
>collector's prices.
>>
>> And one different question:
>> Is it still possible to buy hardcover editions of books from Riftwar 
>> Saga? I mean unused and through Internet stores.
>>
>
>No.  A hardcover book tends to disappear when the paperback edition 
>comes out.  There are a few rare exceptions, but that's the general 
>rule.  We re-released some hardcover anniversary editions at Bantam in 
>1992, but that was a one-shot.  As Bantam is not my publisher any more, 
>they are not interested in doing it again.  At this time there are no 
>plans for a US 20th Anniversary edition of Magician.

Thank you for the satisfying answer. I will buy then paperback
editions of "Silverthorn" and "A Darkness at Sethanon" and wait for
"Magician" in hardcover. Although it costs me dearly I buy Your books
in English, an original language. I have already bought "Prince of the
Blood", "The King's Buccaneer", "Krondor the Betrayal" and "Krondor
the Assassins". I have to hurry and buy "Honoured Enemy" - hardcover
before it disappears. Reading Your books is very pleasant and gives me
a lot of satisfaction, especially in English, although it's somehow
difficult to read books in foreign language.

Yours sincerely
Father Nathan

P.S. I'm going to print your reply and show it to my friends and
family. It will be a valuable item in my "Raymond E. Feist" briefcase.


_____________________________________________________________
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Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com> writes
>
>>
>
>Doubleday doesn't hold those rights any more.  I have those rights.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
Cool !

So anyone on the list offering half a million.............
-- 
John

john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.

Raymond E Feist Ring
http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm



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Earlier I was asking if there were any series that were not published i US.
I also said I did check the series lists. Did I ask a no-no question or
what? If this info is somewhere else I would appreciate some guidance. I am
new to this ring so if I'm stepping on toes or not following some rules
please let me know.

Not at all, it's just that some things take time :)

So far as I am aware there has only been "Honoured Enemy" that hasn't had
a US publisher.  However this wrangle also appears to be affecting
subsequent
publications.

Ray has given all the answers on this that he wishes to give.


Thanks for your help.

Cory

No worries.

Damian
"I don't believe in God, but I fear him"



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 16:25:35 -0800
Subject: Re: Uh..did I ask the question wrong?
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Friday, January 11, 2002, at 02:26 PM, cory williamson wrote:

>
>
> Earlier I was asking if there were any series that were not published i 
> US. I also said I did check the series lists. Did I ask a no-no 
> question or what? If this info is somewhere else I would appreciate 
> some guidance. I am new to this ring so if I'm stepping on toes or not 
> following some rules please let me know.
>

Patience, my friend.

Not everyone lives on the list, so sometimes it takes a while for 
answers to come back.

Ledgends of the Riftwar (Honored Enemy, Murder in LaMut, and Jimmy The 
Hand) is not being published currently in the US.  I look for that to 
change in a year or so.

The 20th Anniversary edition of Magician is also not being published in 
the US.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 16:27:07 -0800
Subject: Re: Magician
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 16:27:07 -0800
Subject: Re: Magician
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Friday, January 11, 2002, at 01:57 PM, Craig J. Ries wrote:

> Raymond Feist wrote:
>>
>> Doubleday doesn't hold those rights any more.  I have those rights.
>
> Is it a little frustrating for you, Ray, to have gone through so many
> different publishers?
>
> Craig J. Ries
>
>
>
>

No.  Compared to other writers, I've had few publishers, only 2 in the 
US, Bantam-Doubelday-Dell and HarperCollins (Morrow/Avon).

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 17:51:14 -0700
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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Raymond Feist wrote:
> 
> No.  Compared to other writers, I've had few publishers, only 2 in the
> US, Bantam-Doubelday-Dell and HarperCollins (Morrow/Avon).

Ahh. It seems like more, with the original books, the books from Avon,
and now stuff being printed in Britain only atm.

I guess I just don't know all my subsidiary companies very well :)

Craig J. Ries



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Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 20:48:47 -0500
Subject: Re: Uh..did I ask the question wrong?
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Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 20:48:47 -0500
Subject: Re: Uh..did I ask the question wrong?
From: Bob Montgomery <dante@kingcon.com>
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Will that be available via Amazon.uk like the Legends series, though?

If so, then it's still available in the US... in a manner of speaking :)

> From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
> Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 16:25:35 -0800
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
> Subject: Re: Uh..did I ask the question wrong?
> 
> The 20th Anniversary edition of Magician is also not being published in
> the US.



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Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 18:49:59 -0700
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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Bob Montgomery wrote:
> 
> Will that be available via Amazon.uk like the Legends series, though?

Presumably, yes.

Craig J. Ries



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From: "cory williamson" <corywillfcb@hotmail.com>
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Sorry..didn't mean to sound impatient, I just didn't know if I was violating 
some "newbie rule" or something. :) I will have greater patientce in the 
future. BTW, thanks for the personal reply Ray (if I may call you that). 
I've been a fan for about 12 yrs now and just found the site. :)  Anyway, 
thanks for the info.

Cory


>From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
>Subject: Re: Uh..did I ask the question wrong?
>Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 16:25:35 -0800
>
>
>On Friday, January 11, 2002, at 02:26 PM, cory williamson wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>Earlier I was asking if there were any series that were not published i
>>US. I also said I did check the series lists. Did I ask a no-no
>>question or what? If this info is somewhere else I would appreciate
>>some guidance. I am new to this ring so if I'm stepping on toes or not
>>following some rules please let me know.
>>
>
>Patience, my friend.
>
>Not everyone lives on the list, so sometimes it takes a while for
>answers to come back.
>
>Ledgends of the Riftwar (Honored Enemy, Murder in LaMut, and Jimmy The
>Hand) is not being published currently in the US.  I look for that to
>change in a year or so.
>
>The 20th Anniversary edition of Magician is also not being published in
>the US.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
>stupidity.
>




_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com



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From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
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Subject: Re: Uh..did I ask the question wrong?
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 21:12:23 -0600
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Uh..did I ask the question wrong?
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 21:12:23 -0600
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

    He (Ray) just means wait about 24-36 hours before repeating a
question.  It isn't a set rule of the list, but is a good habit for
lists in general.
    If for some reason you don't get a response in 24-36 ask again.
If it is ignored a second time check your subscription, or (more
reasonably) that no one has an answer to, or interest in the
question.  Some topics (even those that seem to be list related) may
occasionally be ignored by the majority of members, sometimes this
is usually because we consider it common knowledge and readily
available on websites (more often this attitude will spawn "read the
FAQs" comments instead).

- James

----- Original Message -----
From: "cory williamson" <corywillfcb@hotmail.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2002 8:12 PM
Subject: Re: Uh..did I ask the question wrong?


> Sorry..didn't mean to sound impatient, I just didn't know if I was violating
> some "newbie rule" or something. :) I will have greater patientce in the
> future. BTW, thanks for the personal reply Ray (if I may call you that).
> I've been a fan for about 12 yrs now and just found the site. :) Anyway,
> thanks for the info.
>
> >Patience, my friend.
> >
> >Not everyone lives on the list, so sometimes it takes a while for
> >answers to come back.
> >
> >Ledgends of the Riftwar (Honored Enemy, Murder in LaMut, and Jimmy The
> >Hand) is not being published currently in the US.  I look for that to
> >change in a year or so.
> >
> >The 20th Anniversary edition of Magician is also not being published in
> >the US.
> >
> >Best, R.E.F.



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From: "cory williamson" <corywillfcb@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re: Uh..did I ask the question wrong?
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 21:33:10 -0600
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From: "cory williamson" <corywillfcb@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re: Uh..did I ask the question wrong?
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 21:33:10 -0600
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Thanks for the tip. :)


>From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
>Subject: Re: Uh..did I ask the question wrong?
>Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 21:12:23 -0600
>
>     He (Ray) just means wait about 24-36 hours before repeating a
>question.  It isn't a set rule of the list, but is a good habit for
>lists in general.
>     If for some reason you don't get a response in 24-36 ask again.
>If it is ignored a second time check your subscription, or (more
>reasonably) that no one has an answer to, or interest in the
>question.  Some topics (even those that seem to be list related) may
>occasionally be ignored by the majority of members, sometimes this
>is usually because we consider it common knowledge and readily
>available on websites (more often this attitude will spawn "read the
>FAQs" comments instead).
>
>- James
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "cory williamson" <corywillfcb@hotmail.com>
>To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
>Sent: Friday, January 11, 2002 8:12 PM
>Subject: Re: Uh..did I ask the question wrong?
>
>
> > Sorry..didn't mean to sound impatient, I just didn't know if I was
>violating
> > some "newbie rule" or something. :) I will have greater patientce
>in the
> > future. BTW, thanks for the personal reply Ray (if I may call you
>that).
> > I've been a fan for about 12 yrs now and just found the site. :)
>Anyway,
> > thanks for the info.
> >
> > >Patience, my friend.
> > >
> > >Not everyone lives on the list, so sometimes it takes a while for
> > >answers to come back.
> > >
> > >Ledgends of the Riftwar (Honored Enemy, Murder in LaMut, and
>Jimmy The
> > >Hand) is not being published currently in the US.  I look for
>that to
> > >change in a year or so.
> > >
> > >The 20th Anniversary edition of Magician is also not being
>published in
> > >the US.
> > >
> > >Best, R.E.F.
>




_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com



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Subject: Re: Honoured Enemy
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From: "Nevyn" <alien4@wasp.net.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Honoured Enemy
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2002 17:56:07 +0800
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There are actually alot of misspellings and entire words missing in Honoured
Enemy Hardback... "Amd, id, etc.."


----- Original Message -----
From: "Raymond Feist" <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2002 9:37 AM
Subject: Re: Honoured Enemy


>
> On Thursday, January 10, 2002, at 08:58 AM, Bob Montgomery wrote:
>
> > Actually, along those lines Ray, what are your feelings on other people
> > writing stories and adventures, just for fun of course, within the
> > framework
> > and history of this world? I think it would be fun to write up things
> > like
> > this just for kicks and to amuse my friends who also REF readers. Maybe
> > you
> > should do a writing contest for your fans to submit short stories... I'd
> > take a shot at it :)
>
> This is covered in the FAQ.  Fan fiction is expressly prohibited, for a
> variety of reasons, but firstmost is that it's a copyright infringement
> that creates potential problems for me.
>
> >
> > Further along those lines, I'm a trade magazine editor by trade, so
> > once in
> > a while I catch typos in the books, and get a chuckle (since I know it
> > happens in our magazines, even though four or five people read things
> > through before they hit the page)... should I forward a list of those
> > to the
> > publisher?
> >
>
> If you'd like.  They have to reset type when they go from hardcover to
> paperback, so that's the time to get those corrections in.
>
> Best,R.E.F.
> ----
>
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
> stupidity.
>



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Subject: Re: Honoured Enemy
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Subject: Re: Honoured Enemy
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Nevyn" <alien4@wasp.net.au>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2002 8:56 PM
Subject: Re: Honoured Enemy


> There are actually alot of misspellings and entire words missing in Honoured
> Enemy Hardback... "Amd, id, etc.."

Yeah, a lot of them have been spotted by observant readers such as yourself.
:)

However, apparently there isn't a lot the publisher can do about them once
the book has been printed... Usually the only time for changing misspellings
and the like is when the book is published in paperback format.

Cheers,
James



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From: John <john@crydee.com>
Subject: Re: Honoured Enemy
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Nevyn <alien4@wasp.net.au> writes
>There are actually alot of misspellings and entire words missing in Honoured
>Enemy Hardback... "Amd, id, etc.."
>
>
Many have already been advised to the publisher, though were too late to 
be caught before mass printing took place. Though the missing page had 
already been caught before I spotted it, so at least you got that one to 
read <G>
-- 
John

john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.

Raymond E Feist Ring
http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm



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Subject: OT: A bit of humor
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From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2002 09:06:35 -0800
Subject: OT: A bit of humor
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: feISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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For the guys who wonder why women have so much trouble with us . . .

(and for the gals who need a bit of a laugh):

1. Nice men are ugly.

2. Handsome men are not nice.

3. Handsome and nice men are gay.

4. Handsome, nice and heterosexual men are married.

5. Men who are not so handsome, but are nice men,
have no money.

6. Men who are not so handsome, but are nice and
have money think we are only after their money.

7. Handsome men without money are after our money.

8. Handsome men, who are not so nice and are
somewhat heterosexual, don't think we are beautiful enough.

9. Men who think we are beautiful, that are
heterosexual, somewhat nice and have money, are
cowards.

10. Men who are somewhat handsome, somewhat nice and
have some money and thank God are heterosexual, are
shy and NEVER MAKE THE FIRST MOVE!!!!

11. The men who never make the first move,
automatically lose interest in us when we take the
initiative.

NOW ....WHO IN THE HELL UNDERSTANDS MEN?

Men are like a fine wine. They all start out like
grapes, and it's a woman's job to stomp on them and
keep them in the dark until they mature into
something you'd like to have dinner with.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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From: "Joe S." <diamondjoesmith@yahoo.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Uh..did I ask the question wrong?
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2002 19:53:02 -0600
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Joe S." <diamondjoesmith@yahoo.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Uh..did I ask the question wrong?
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2002 19:53:02 -0600
Organization: Elite Communications
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

So when they do come out in North America, will the ones that have been
written and published in the UK come out relatively close to each other
(i.e. one a month), or will you space them out a little further so that
you don't need to write the next ones as quickly? *S*

Joseph Smith

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu 
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Raymond Feist
> Sent: Friday, January 11, 2002 6:26 PM
> To: FEISTFANS-L
> Subject: Re: Uh..did I ask the question wrong?
> 
> 
> 
> On Friday, January 11, 2002, at 02:26 PM, cory williamson wrote:
> 
> >
> >
> > Earlier I was asking if there were any series that were not 
> published 
> > i
> > US. I also said I did check the series lists. Did I ask a no-no 
> > question or what? If this info is somewhere else I would appreciate 
> > some guidance. I am new to this ring so if I'm stepping on 
> toes or not 
> > following some rules please let me know.
> >
> 
> Patience, my friend.
> 
> Not everyone lives on the list, so sometimes it takes a while for 
> answers to come back.
> 
> Ledgends of the Riftwar (Honored Enemy, Murder in LaMut, and 
> Jimmy The 
> Hand) is not being published currently in the US.  I look for that to 
> change in a year or so.
> 
> The 20th Anniversary edition of Magician is also not being 
> published in 
> the US.
> 
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
> 
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be 
> explained away by 
> stupidity.
> 



_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com



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Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2002 18:59:54 -0800
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2002 18:59:54 -0800
Subject: Re: Uh..did I ask the question wrong?
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Saturday, January 12, 2002, at 05:53 PM, Joe S. wrote:

> So when they do come out in North America, will the ones that have been
> written and published in the UK come out relatively close to each other
> (i.e. one a month), or will you space them out a little further so that
> you don't need to write the next ones as quickly? *S*
>

That's up to the publisher.  I suspect, however, they won't be one per 
month.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Sounds like Ray doesn't have a current US publisher at all!

What *are* they publishing in fact?

Expecting a very short list as an answer,
BJS (UK)

-----Original Message-----
>From: Raymond Feist [mailto:raymond@bittersea.com]
>Sent: 12 January 2002 00:26
>To: FEISTFANS-L
>Subject: Re: Uh..did I ask the question wrong?
>
>Ledgends of the Riftwar (Honored Enemy, Murder in LaMut, and Jimmy The 
>Hand) is not being published currently in the US.  I look for that to 
>change in a year or so.
>
>The 20th Anniversary edition of Magician is also not being published in 
>the US.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>
>

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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2002 11:38:26 -0800
Subject: Re: Uh..did I ask the question wrong?
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Sunday, January 13, 2002, at 10:30 AM, <lists@bjs.org.uk> wrote:

>
> Sounds like Ray doesn't have a current US publisher at all!
>
> What *are* they publishing in fact?
>
> Expecting a very short list as an answer,
> BJS (UK)
>

My American publisher is Avon.  They are currently waiting for Talon of 
the Silver Hawk, and King of Foxes, the two books in the Conclave of 
Shadows, and another book currently untitled.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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From: "paul dutton" <paul.dutton@care4free.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: That Which Was Sarth
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2002 21:51:26 -0000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "paul dutton" <paul.dutton@care4free.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: That Which Was Sarth
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2002 21:51:26 -0000
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Hi All,
This would be a cool name for a bookshop.  Make it 56 floors of new &
second-hand; build it into the side of a mountain.  Have a special dedicated
Feist Floor...complete with FeistFans Gallery.  Set up a new religious order
to run it....give it long enough & the new god might become real.
When can you start??
Paul

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Richard Williamson
> Sent: 07 January 2002 10:45
> To: FEISTFANS-L
> Subject: Re: UK Tour


> >Opening Soon The  'Raymond E Feist' Bookshoppe'
>
> Make it a pub with attached library/reading room (non-smoking,
> of course)
>
> ummmm.  Call it "That Which Was Sarth" or something.
> rip
>



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Subject: Re: That Which Was Sarth
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2002 14:40:16 -0800
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Kevin" <kevykev@sbcglobal.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: That Which Was Sarth
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2002 14:40:16 -0800
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I like it. Maybe a movie producer will give Ray enough money to buy Cheyenne
Mountain and two birds killed with one stone.
----- Original Message -----
From: "paul dutton" <paul.dutton@care4free.net>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2002 1:51 PM
Subject: RE: That Which Was Sarth


> Hi All,
> This would be a cool name for a bookshop.  Make it 56 floors of new &
> second-hand; build it into the side of a mountain.  Have a special dedicated
> Feist Floor...complete with FeistFans Gallery.  Set up a new religious order
> to run it....give it long enough & the new god might become real.
> When can you start??
> Paul
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Richard Williamson
> > Sent: 07 January 2002 10:45
> > To: FEISTFANS-L
> > Subject: Re: UK Tour
>
>
> > >Opening Soon The  'Raymond E Feist' Bookshoppe'
> >
> > Make it a pub with attached library/reading room (non-smoking,
> > of course)
> >
> > ummmm.  Call it "That Which Was Sarth" or something.
> > rip
> >
>



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Subject: Re: That Which Was Sarth
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 14:52:15 +1100
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Andy Hogan" <andyhogan@dcsi.net.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: That Which Was Sarth
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 14:52:15 +1100
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Whats Cheyenne Mountian?

----- Original Message -----
From: "Kevin" <kevykev@sbcglobal.net>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2002 9:40 AM
Subject: Re: That Which Was Sarth


> I like it. Maybe a movie producer will give Ray enough money to buy Cheyenne
> Mountain and two birds killed with one stone.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "paul dutton" <paul.dutton@care4free.net>
> To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2002 1:51 PM
> Subject: RE: That Which Was Sarth
>
>
> > Hi All,
> > This would be a cool name for a bookshop.  Make it 56 floors of new &
> > second-hand; build it into the side of a mountain.  Have a special
> dedicated
> > Feist Floor...complete with FeistFans Gallery.  Set up a new religious
> order
> > to run it....give it long enough & the new god might become real.
> > When can you start??
> > Paul
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > > [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Richard Williamson
> > > Sent: 07 January 2002 10:45
> > > To: FEISTFANS-L
> > > Subject: Re: UK Tour
> >
> >
> > > >Opening Soon The  'Raymond E Feist' Bookshoppe'
> > >
> > > Make it a pub with attached library/reading room (non-smoking,
> > > of course)
> > >
> > > ummmm.  Call it "That Which Was Sarth" or something.
> > > rip
> > >
> >
>



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Subject: RE: That Which Was Sarth
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Subject: RE: That Which Was Sarth
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2002 21:35:59 -0600
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From: "Lowder, Jason" <jasonl@spfld.kebcpa.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
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Cheyenne Mountain, if it is the same one, is the location in Colorado
Springs, CO, USA where NORAD is located.  It is a hollowed out mountain,
where US/Canada strategic defense assets are housed.  They also track Santa
;-)

http://www.dnd.ca/menu/canada-us/bg00.010_e.htm

Jason Lowder
Network Administrator
Kerber, Eck & Braeckel, LLP
Business Line: 217/789-0960

-----Original Message-----
>From: Andy Hogan [mailto:andyhogan@dcsi.net.au] 
>Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2002 9:52 PM
>To: FEISTFANS-L
>Subject: Re: That Which Was Sarth
>
>Whats Cheyenne Mountian?
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Kevin" <kevykev@sbcglobal.net>
>To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
>Sent: Monday, January 14, 2002 9:40 AM
>Subject: Re: That Which Was Sarth
>
>
>> I like it. Maybe a movie producer will give Ray enough money to buy
>Cheyenne
>> Mountain and two birds killed with one stone.
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "paul dutton" <paul.dutton@care4free.net>
>> To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
>> Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2002 1:51 PM
>> Subject: RE: That Which Was Sarth
>>
>>
>> > Hi All,
>> > This would be a cool name for a bookshop.  Make it 56 floors of new &
>> > second-hand; build it into the side of a mountain.  Have a special
>> dedicated
>> > Feist Floor...complete with FeistFans Gallery.  Set up a new religious
>> order
>> > to run it....give it long enough & the new god might become real.
>> > When can you start??
>> > Paul
>> >
>> > > -----Original Message-----
>> > > From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>> > > [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Richard Williamson
>> > > Sent: 07 January 2002 10:45
>> > > To: FEISTFANS-L
>> > > Subject: Re: UK Tour
>> >
>> >
>> > > >Opening Soon The  'Raymond E Feist' Bookshoppe'
>> > >
>> > > Make it a pub with attached library/reading room (non-smoking,
>> > > of course)
>> > >
>> > > ummmm.  Call it "That Which Was Sarth" or something.
>> > > rip
>> > >
>> >
>>
>
>

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From: Alan Kellogg <mythusmage@cts.com>
Subject: Re: That Which Was Sarth
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2002 23:00:43 -0800
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Alan Kellogg <mythusmage@cts.com>
Subject: Re: That Which Was Sarth
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

>Whats Cheyenne Mountian?

A mountain in Colorado, headquarters for the United States Air Force. 
Not for sale. The headquarters is built inside the mountain, much 
like a dwarven city, but with more blinking lights.

Alan
-- 
Mythusmage.com <http://www.mythusmage.com>
Writing Practice at: <http://www.gamingoutpost.com>



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References: <1CCAF1D8-085D-11D6-BFC3-003065A8A644@bittersea.com>
Subject: Re: Uh..did I ask the question wrong?
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 20:15:19 +1100
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James E.Roberts" <jroberts6@vtown.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Uh..did I ask the question wrong?
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 20:15:19 +1100
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So is the rest of us ;) 

Jamie

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Raymond Feist" <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2002 6:38 AM
Subject: Re: Uh..did I ask the question wrong?


> 
> On Sunday, January 13, 2002, at 10:30 AM, <lists@bjs.org.uk> wrote:
> 
> >
> > Sounds like Ray doesn't have a current US publisher at all!
> >
> > What *are* they publishing in fact?
> >
> > Expecting a very short list as an answer,
> > BJS (UK)
> >
> 
> My American publisher is Avon.  They are currently waiting for Talon of 
> the Silver Hawk, and King of Foxes, the two books in the Conclave of 
> Shadows, and another book currently untitled.
> 
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
> 
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
> stupidity.
> 



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From: "Donal K. Fellows" <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
In-reply-to: <a05100301b868322ba3c5@[216.120.13.202]> (message from Alan
	Kellogg on Sun, 13 Jan 2002 23:00:43 -0800)
Subject: Re: That Which Was Sarth
References: <001601c19c7c$7314b820$dc9abc3e@mcc.ac.uk>
 <000f01c19c83$463c72a0$fb2efea9@pacbell.net>
 <004401c19cae$dbf20b40$065afea9@mls> <a05100301b868322ba3c5@[216.120.13.202]>
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Donal K. Fellows" <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: That Which Was Sarth
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 10:10:18 +0000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Alan Kellogg <mythusmage@cts.com>
>> Whats Cheyenne Mountian?
> A mountain in Colorado, headquarters for the United States Air Force. 
> Not for sale. The headquarters is built inside the mountain, much 
> like a dwarven city, but with more blinking lights.

I *like* that image!  .sigged (there is no other way...)

Donal.
-- 
Donal K. Fellows, Department of Computer Science, University of Manchester, UK.
(work) fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk     Tel: +44-161-275-6137  (preferred email addr.)
(home) donal@ugglan.demon.co.uk  Tel: +44-1274-401017   Mobile: +44-7957-298955
http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~fellowsd/  (Don't quote my .sig; I've seen it before!)



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From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: 
In-Reply-To: <OF0B38ACDF.2A675008-ON85256B41.004D3FED@ra.rockwell.com>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 14:28:43 +0000
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: 
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To spall @ rockwell:

This should be sent to listserv@cornell.edu, not to the list.

And as an aside to Dan L:

set FEISTFANS-L mail server braindead-digest-numbering off

rip

At 09:03 AM 1/14/02 -0500, spall@ra.rockwell.com wrote:

>set FEISTFANS-L mail digest-nomime



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Subject: Re: That Which Was Sarth
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 07:08:57 -0800
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Kevin" <kevykev@sbcglobal.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: That Which Was Sarth
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 07:08:57 -0800
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Cheyenne Mountain,CO is the home of NORAD, the North American Aerospace
Defense Command. NORAD ran a website (noradsanta.org)which tracked Santa
Claus for all the kids on Christmas Eve. Here's the official site:
http://www.spacecom.af.mil/norad/

                        Kev
----- Original Message -----
From: "Andy Hogan" <andyhogan@dcsi.net.au>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2002 7:52 PM
Subject: Re: That Which Was Sarth


> Whats Cheyenne Mountian?
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Kevin" <kevykev@sbcglobal.net>
> To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> Sent: Monday, January 14, 2002 9:40 AM
> Subject: Re: That Which Was Sarth
>
>
> > I like it. Maybe a movie producer will give Ray enough money to buy
> Cheyenne
> > Mountain and two birds killed with one stone.
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "paul dutton" <paul.dutton@care4free.net>
> > To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> > Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2002 1:51 PM
> > Subject: RE: That Which Was Sarth
> >
> >
> > > Hi All,
> > > This would be a cool name for a bookshop.  Make it 56 floors of new &
> > > second-hand; build it into the side of a mountain.  Have a special
> > dedicated
> > > Feist Floor...complete with FeistFans Gallery.  Set up a new religious
> > order
> > > to run it....give it long enough & the new god might become real.
> > > When can you start??
> > > Paul
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > > > [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Richard Williamson
> > > > Sent: 07 January 2002 10:45
> > > > To: FEISTFANS-L
> > > > Subject: Re: UK Tour
> > >
> > >
> > > > >Opening Soon The  'Raymond E Feist' Bookshoppe'
> > > >
> > > > Make it a pub with attached library/reading room (non-smoking,
> > > > of course)
> > > >
> > > > ummmm.  Call it "That Which Was Sarth" or something.
> > > > rip
> > > >
> > >
> >
>



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To: FeistFans-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Jimmy The Hand
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 22:08:35 +0000
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From: "John Jeffries" <johncjeffries@hotmail.com>
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Since I don't have much time to look at every e-mail on the list.  Could you 
please tell me about this book....where it fits in, and when it will be 
published(or written?).....thanks

John J.



_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.



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Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 17:16:14 -0500
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From: Eric Paul <epaul@spellbook.net>
Subject: Re: OT: A bit of humor
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Thanks Ray!  I needed that one :)

Eric



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 17:32:59 -0500
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Larry Siegel <larry@psihawk.com>
Subject: Re: Jimmy The Hand
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

At 10:08 PM 1/14/02 +0000, you wrote:
>Since I don't have much time to look at every e-mail on the list.  Could 
>you please tell me about this book....where it fits in, and when it will 
>be published(or written?).....thanks
>
>John J.


I *REALLY* wanna make a comment about that post..... But I'll leave it to 
the hands of Brett... or rip...
as they do it so much better....*weg*




Larry

My Homepage
http://www.psihawk.com

Raymond E. Feist FAQ
http://www.psihawk.com/feist



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To: "Feistfans" <Feistfans-L@cornell.edu>
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Kevin" <kevykev@sbcglobal.net>
To: "Feistfans" <Feistfans-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: www.raymondfeist.com
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 15:28:14 -0800
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Test Page for the SSL/TLS-aware Apache Installation on Web SiteI
clicked a link on a slightly old e-mail and this is what I got:


    Hey, it worked !
    The SSL/TLS-aware Apache webserver was
    successfully installed on this website. 
    If you can see this page, then the people who own this website
    have just installed the Apache Web server software and the Apache
    Interface to OpenSSL (mod_ssl) successfully. They now have to add
    content to this directory and replace this placeholder page, or
    else point the server at their real content. 

      ATTENTION!
      If you are seeing this page instead of the site you expected,
      please contact the administrator of the site involved. (Try
      sending mail to <webmaster@domain>.) Although this site is
      running the Apache software it almost certainly has no other
      connection to the Apache Group, so please do not send mail about
      this site or its contents to the Apache authors. If you do, your
      message will be ignored. 

    The Apache online documentation has been included with this distribution.
    Especially also read the mod_ssl User Manual carefully. 

    Your are allowed to use the images below on your SSL-aware Apache
    Web server.
    Thanks for using Apache, mod_ssl and OpenSSL! 

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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Jimmy The Hand
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020114173206.00a57d40@mail.optonline.net>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 23:20:44 -0600
From: Bret Robideaux <bretr@alliances.org>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:0.9.4) Gecko/20011019 Netscape6/6.2
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Jimmy The Hand
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Hey now! I've recanted my evil ways. I now espouse the widely held (by 
everyone's parents) view of "if you don't have anything nice to say, 
don't say anything."

Which accounts for my recent silence *grin*

And John? Sorry, but I don't have much time to look up answers to random 
questions posted here. But, if you read the FAQ (Hi Larry, aka psihawk, 
who's homepage is www.psihawk.com, which houses an up-to-date FAQ at 
www.psihawk.com/feist) you might either find the answer or get a link to 
a searchable archives (Hi Donal, ...).

Bret

Larry Siegel wrote:

> At 10:08 PM 1/14/02 +0000, you wrote:
> 
>> Since I don't have much time to look at every e-mail on the list.  
>> Could you please tell me about this book....where it fits in, and when 
>> it will be published(or written?).....thanks
>>
>> John J.
> 
> 
> 
> I *REALLY* wanna make a comment about that post..... But I'll leave it 
> to the hands of Brett... or rip...
> as they do it so much better....*weg*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Larry
> 
> My Homepage
> http://www.psihawk.com
> 
> Raymond E. Feist FAQ
> http://www.psihawk.com/feist
> 



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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: Jimmy The Hand
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020114173206.00a57d40@mail.optonline.net>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 09:43:19 +0000
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: Jimmy The Hand
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

At 05:32 PM 1/14/02 -0500, Larry Siegel wrote:
>At 10:08 PM 1/14/02 +0000, you wrote:
>>Since I don't have much time to look at every e-mail on the list.  Could you please tell me about this book....where it fits in, and when it will be published(or written?).....thanks
>>
>>John J.
>
>
>I *REALLY* wanna make a comment about that post..... But I'll leave it to the hands of Brett... or rip...
>as they do it so much better....*weg*

Taking into account Bret's (note the spelling) response, I guess that
leaves it up to me.

Hmph.  And it was my day off, too.

Right.  Hum.  Where to start.  Guess I'll just dive right in and
see what happens.

>>Since I don't have much time to look at every e-mail on the list.  Could you please tell me about this book....where it fits in, and when it will be published(or written?).....thanks

It's a story about Jimmy the Hand.  It's to be co-written by Ray and
S.M. Stirling. 
(http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-url/index=books&field-author=Stirling)
It takes off from the scene in Magician where Arutha is fleeing Krondor 
with Anita, and turns to see Jimmy stuck on the docks, unarmed.  He tosses
him his rapier and Jimmy makes his run.  

Expect it will be written next year some time, in between the other
things Ray is working on.

Now, you have your answers.  Next, comes the baseball bat.

Look.  Do you think your time is more important than ours? And I 
include Ray in that group too.  It took me about 15 minutes of 
research to gather all the above information.  Ok, I used my
own search engine on the archives, rather than Donal's, but
mine is faster because I store the archives uncompressed.  

I also looked at Ray Chang's 'Information for Newbies', which
is posted her occasionally, and also maintained on Psihawk's
FAQ site (address available in the other emails responding to
your request).

Then, of course, there is google, once you have the name
of the co-author to hand:
http://www.google.com/search?q=%2BJimmy+%2BHand+%2BFeist+%2BStirling

The Internet is a TOOL.  USE it.

rip



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From: "Nevyn" <alien4@wasp.net.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
References: <F237wZuFwT6TfTgcCyb0001c76b@hotmail.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20020115091645.00f04530@mail.swindon.wrsec.fr>
Subject: Re: Jimmy The Hand
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 17:52:31 +0800
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Nevyn" <alien4@wasp.net.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Jimmy The Hand
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 17:52:31 +0800
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Rip
You can go stand in the halls of lims-kragma for all eternity you
cold-hearted materialistic bastard. I grow tired of this, why do you people
keep telling people off for asking a simple question? The internet is a
tool, YES AS IS THIS EMAIL LIST  It is, Im sure, created FOR FANS OF R.E.F
to find one another and discuss his works -- If you did not know the answer
to his question, don't send a reply!
For cryin out loud! Give it up and lighten up! Materialism is BAD and so is
Being Patronising. Your not better than John (the asker) and he is no better
than you, it doesnt matter if hes a 15 yr old kid and your a 45 yr old
University Professor. Your still the same, and when he asks something that
you dont know, Just dont answer it!

I grow tired of seeing on this list the patronising and condescending e-mail
replies, and hope for your sake your grow up and learn better.

Nevyn.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Williamson" <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2002 5:43 PM
Subject: Re: Jimmy The Hand


> At 05:32 PM 1/14/02 -0500, Larry Siegel wrote:
> >At 10:08 PM 1/14/02 +0000, you wrote:
> >>Since I don't have much time to look at every e-mail on the list.  Could
> >>you please tell me about this book....where it fits in, and when it will be
> >>published(or written?).....thanks
> >>
> >>John J.
> >
> >
> >I *REALLY* wanna make a comment about that post..... But I'll leave it to
> >the hands of Brett... or rip...
> >as they do it so much better....*weg*
>
> Taking into account Bret's (note the spelling) response, I guess that
> leaves it up to me.
>
> Hmph.  And it was my day off, too.
>
> Right.  Hum.  Where to start.  Guess I'll just dive right in and
> see what happens.
>
> >>Since I don't have much time to look at every e-mail on the list.  Could
> >>you please tell me about this book....where it fits in, and when it will be
> >>published(or written?).....thanks
>
> It's a story about Jimmy the Hand.  It's to be co-written by Ray and
> S.M. Stirling.
>
>(http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-url/index=books&field-autho
>r=Stirling)
> It takes off from the scene in Magician where Arutha is fleeing Krondor
> with Anita, and turns to see Jimmy stuck on the docks, unarmed.  He tosses
> him his rapier and Jimmy makes his run.
>
> Expect it will be written next year some time, in between the other
> things Ray is working on.
>
> Now, you have your answers.  Next, comes the baseball bat.
>
> Look.  Do you think your time is more important than ours? And I
> include Ray in that group too.  It took me about 15 minutes of
> research to gather all the above information.  Ok, I used my
> own search engine on the archives, rather than Donal's, but
> mine is faster because I store the archives uncompressed.
>
> I also looked at Ray Chang's 'Information for Newbies', which
> is posted her occasionally, and also maintained on Psihawk's
> FAQ site (address available in the other emails responding to
> your request).
>
> Then, of course, there is google, once you have the name
> of the co-author to hand:
> http://www.google.com/search?q=%2BJimmy+%2BHand+%2BFeist+%2BStirling
>
> The Internet is a TOOL.  USE it.
>
> rip
>



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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: Jimmy The Hand
In-Reply-To: <000b01c19daa$5a564950$0300a8c0@shak>
References: <F237wZuFwT6TfTgcCyb0001c76b@hotmail.com>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20020115091645.00f04530@mail.swindon.wrsec.fr>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 10:19:19 +0000
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: Jimmy The Hand
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

At 05:52 PM 1/15/02 +0800, Nevyn wrote:
>Rip
>You can go stand in the halls of lims-kragma for all eternity you
>cold-hearted materialistic bastard. 

Huh?

>I grow tired of this, why do you people
>keep telling people off for asking a simple question?

Ah.  Now I understand your issue.  It wasn't the question
that annoyed us, it was the manner in which it was presented.

The original poster stated that he "didn't have the time
to look it up himself" (paraphrased).  But in the same
breath, as it were, he felt it was perfectly OK to use
OUR time as if it were his own.

Bad.

> The internet is a
>tool, YES AS IS THIS EMAIL LIST  It is, Im sure, created FOR FANS OF R.E.F
>to find one another and discuss his works -- If you did not know the answer
>to his question, don't send a reply!

Um.  But I did know the answer.  I even gave it to him.

Where's your problem with that?  Or did you not read the
entire email, and are only just responding from rote?
"Oh, it's an email from rip, he's just ripped someone,
I need to respond to show the world how wrong he is"

Are you feeling better now?

>For cryin out loud! Give it up and lighten up! Materialism is BAD 

What's with the materialism?  Time isn't a material, it
is a resource.  It is just resource management.  And 
wasting resources is evil (just ask Ray).  And if you
ask me, wanting to waste someone /elses/ resources, well
that's on beyond evil.

>and so is being Patronising. Your 

"You're" ;->

>not better than John (the asker) and he is no better
>than you, it doesnt matter if hes a 15 yr old kid and your a 45 yr old
>University Professor. Your 

"You're" ;->  Homophones can be a pain in the butt, can't they.

>still the same, and when he asks something that
>you dont know, Just dont answer it!

cf above, where I pointed out that /I did answer the question/.

>I grow tired of seeing on this list the patronising and condescending e-mail
>replies, and hope for your sake your grow up and learn better.

Noted.

Shrug,
rip

>>
>> It's a story about Jimmy the Hand.  It's to be co-written by Ray and
>> S.M. Stirling.
>>
>(http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-url/index=books&field-autho
>r=Stirling)
>> It takes off from the scene in Magician where Arutha is fleeing Krondor
>> with Anita, and turns to see Jimmy stuck on the docks, unarmed.  He tosses
>> him his rapier and Jimmy makes his run.
>>
>> Expect it will be written next year some time, in between the other
>> things Ray is working on.
>>



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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
References: <F237wZuFwT6TfTgcCyb0001c76b@hotmail.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20020115091645.00f04530@mail.swindon.wrsec.fr> <5.1.0.14.2.20020115101002.00f03220@mail.swindon.wrsec.fr>
Subject: Re: Jimmy The Hand
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 18:47:59 +0800
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Nevyn" <alien4@wasp.net.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Jimmy The Hand
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 18:47:59 +0800
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

*L* Alright then, all is forgiven I think. Hmm.
I didnt mean any offence by the way!

Nevyn
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Williamson" <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2002 6:19 PM
Subject: Re: Jimmy The Hand


> At 05:52 PM 1/15/02 +0800, Nevyn wrote:
> >Rip
> >You can go stand in the halls of lims-kragma for all eternity you
> >cold-hearted materialistic bastard.
>
> Huh?
>
> >I grow tired of this, why do you people
> >keep telling people off for asking a simple question?
>
> Ah.  Now I understand your issue.  It wasn't the question
> that annoyed us, it was the manner in which it was presented.
>
> The original poster stated that he "didn't have the time
> to look it up himself" (paraphrased).  But in the same
> breath, as it were, he felt it was perfectly OK to use
> OUR time as if it were his own.
>
> Bad.
>
> > The internet is a
> >tool, YES AS IS THIS EMAIL LIST  It is, Im sure, created FOR FANS OF R.E.F
> >to find one another and discuss his works -- If you did not know the answer
> >to his question, don't send a reply!
>
> Um.  But I did know the answer.  I even gave it to him.
>
> Where's your problem with that?  Or did you not read the
> entire email, and are only just responding from rote?
> "Oh, it's an email from rip, he's just ripped someone,
> I need to respond to show the world how wrong he is"
>
> Are you feeling better now?
>
> >For cryin out loud! Give it up and lighten up! Materialism is BAD
>
> What's with the materialism?  Time isn't a material, it
> is a resource.  It is just resource management.  And
> wasting resources is evil (just ask Ray).  And if you
> ask me, wanting to waste someone /elses/ resources, well
> that's on beyond evil.
>
> >and so is being Patronising. Your
>
> "You're" ;->
>
> >not better than John (the asker) and he is no better
> >than you, it doesnt matter if hes a 15 yr old kid and your a 45 yr old
> >University Professor. Your
>
> "You're" ;->  Homophones can be a pain in the butt, can't they.
>
> >still the same, and when he asks something that
> >you dont know, Just dont answer it!
>
> cf above, where I pointed out that /I did answer the question/.
>
> >I grow tired of seeing on this list the patronising and condescending e-mail
> >replies, and hope for your sake your grow up and learn better.
>
> Noted.
>
> Shrug,
> rip
>
> >>
> >> It's a story about Jimmy the Hand.  It's to be co-written by Ray and
> >> S.M. Stirling.
> >>
>
>(http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-url/index=books&field-autho
> >r=Stirling)
> >> It takes off from the scene in Magician where Arutha is fleeing Krondor
> >> with Anita, and turns to see Jimmy stuck on the docks, unarmed.  He tosses
> >> him his rapier and Jimmy makes his run.
> >>
> >> Expect it will be written next year some time, in between the other
> >> things Ray is working on.
> >>
>



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Subject: Re: Jimmy The Hand
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Barker" <heechee@softhome.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Jimmy The Hand
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 22:46:14 +1100
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Nevyn" <alien4@wasp.net.au>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2002 8:52 PM
Subject: Re: Jimmy The Hand


> Rip
> You can go stand in the halls of lims-kragma for all eternity you
> cold-hearted materialistic bastard.

Of course, no offence meant.

So by your own standards, you won't take offence when I call you a
simple-minded reactionary fool who doesn't even take the time to read what
he's reacting to.

Furthermore, I hope that when I say that I hope you get hit by a passing bus
and end up in some pit of Hades, you'll take it as a compliment, like I
intended.

<G>

Cheers,
James

P.S. Don't use big words like "materialistic" if you don't know what they
mean.



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References: <F237wZuFwT6TfTgcCyb0001c76b@hotmail.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20020115091645.00f04530@mail.swindon.wrsec.fr> <000b01c19daa$5a564950$0300a8c0@shak> <002701c19dba$3e2b7d80$a5a70ccb@heechee>
Subject: Re: Jimmy The Hand
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Nevyn" <alien4@wasp.net.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Jimmy The Hand
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 19:53:01 +0800
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

LOL This is so fun. Now stop it.
:o)

----- Original Message -----
From: "James Barker" <heechee@softhome.net>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2002 7:46 PM
Subject: Re: Jimmy The Hand


>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Nevyn" <alien4@wasp.net.au>
> To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2002 8:52 PM
> Subject: Re: Jimmy The Hand
>
>
> > Rip
> > You can go stand in the halls of lims-kragma for all eternity you
> > cold-hearted materialistic bastard.
>
> Of course, no offence meant.
>
> So by your own standards, you won't take offence when I call you a
> simple-minded reactionary fool who doesn't even take the time to read what
> he's reacting to.
>
> Furthermore, I hope that when I say that I hope you get hit by a passing bus
> and end up in some pit of Hades, you'll take it as a compliment, like I
> intended.
>
> <G>
>
> Cheers,
> James
>
> P.S. Don't use big words like "materialistic" if you don't know what they
> mean.
>



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Subject: Re: Jimmy The Hand
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Barker" <heechee@softhome.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Jimmy The Hand
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 00:44:04 +1100
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----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Nevyn" <alien4@wasp.net.au>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2002 10:53 PM
Subject: Re: Jimmy The Hand


> LOL This is so fun. Now stop it.
> :o)
> 

Can do.

Cheers,
James



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References: <F237wZuFwT6TfTgcCyb0001c76b@hotmail.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20020115091645.00f04530@mail.swindon.wrsec.fr> <000b01c19daa$5a564950$0300a8c0@shak> <002701c19dba$3e2b7d80$a5a70ccb@heechee> <000b01c19dbb$2f8f4c10$0300a8c0@shak>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 08:45:20 -0600
From: Bret Robideaux <bretr@alliances.org>
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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Jimmy The Hand
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Hey everyone,

   We spend a fair portion of time "enlightening" those who violate the 
various (un)written rules of the list. I'd like to take a moment to 
recognize someone who deserves from credit for their (lack of) action 
this morning.

Nevyn begins by flaming:

> Rip
> You can go stand in the halls of lims-kragma for all eternity you
> cold-hearted materialistic bastard. 
> 


Then in the very next email, backs off:

> *L* Alright then, all is forgiven I think. Hmm.
> I didnt mean any offence by the way!
> 

And finally in full retreat:

> LOL This is so fun. Now stop it.
> :o)
> 


Although the shift in stance is abrupt (slam head first into a wall at 
full speed, and stumble back the way you came), I have to applaud Nevyn 
for recognizing the situation so quickly. Normally, this discussion 
would have dragged on for days with the offender completely refusing to 
see reason and bitterly defending his(her) position.

So Nevyn (in all seriousness) three cheers to you mate.

Bret




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Dear Richard:

Well Spake!

Adieu

Jimmy

>From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
>Subject: Re: Jimmy The Hand
>Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 09:43:19 +0000
>
>At 05:32 PM 1/14/02 -0500, Larry Siegel wrote:
> >At 10:08 PM 1/14/02 +0000, you wrote:
> >>Since I don't have much time to look at every e-mail on the list.  Could 
>you please tell me about this book....where it fits in, and when it will be 
>published(or written?).....thanks
> >>
> >>John J.
> >
> >
> >I *REALLY* wanna make a comment about that post..... But I'll leave it to 
>the hands of Brett... or rip...
> >as they do it so much better....*weg*
>
>Taking into account Bret's (note the spelling) response, I guess that
>leaves it up to me.
>
>Hmph.  And it was my day off, too.
>
>Right.  Hum.  Where to start.  Guess I'll just dive right in and
>see what happens.
>
> >>Since I don't have much time to look at every e-mail on the list.  Could 
>you please tell me about this book....where it fits in, and when it will be 
>published(or written?).....thanks
>
>It's a story about Jimmy the Hand.  It's to be co-written by Ray and
>S.M. Stirling.
>(http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-url/index=books&field-author=Stirling)
>It takes off from the scene in Magician where Arutha is fleeing Krondor
>with Anita, and turns to see Jimmy stuck on the docks, unarmed.  He tosses
>him his rapier and Jimmy makes his run.
>
>Expect it will be written next year some time, in between the other
>things Ray is working on.
>
>Now, you have your answers.  Next, comes the baseball bat.
>
>Look.  Do you think your time is more important than ours? And I
>include Ray in that group too.  It took me about 15 minutes of
>research to gather all the above information.  Ok, I used my
>own search engine on the archives, rather than Donal's, but
>mine is faster because I store the archives uncompressed.
>
>I also looked at Ray Chang's 'Information for Newbies', which
>is posted her occasionally, and also maintained on Psihawk's
>FAQ site (address available in the other emails responding to
>your request).
>
>Then, of course, there is google, once you have the name
>of the co-author to hand:
>http://www.google.com/search?q=%2BJimmy+%2BHand+%2BFeist+%2BStirling
>
>The Internet is a TOOL.  USE it.
>
>rip
>


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 08:46:49 -0800
Subject: Re: Jimmy The Hand
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Tuesday, January 15, 2002, at 01:52 AM, Nevyn wrote:

> Rip
> You can go stand in the halls of lims-kragma for all eternity you
> cold-hearted materialistic bastard. I grow tired of this, why do you 
> people
> keep telling people off for asking a simple question? The internet is a
> tool, YES AS IS THIS EMAIL LIST  It is, Im sure, created FOR FANS OF 
> R.E.F
> to find one another and discuss his works -- If you did not know the 
> answer
> to his question, don't send a reply!
> For cryin out loud! Give it up and lighten up! Materialism is BAD and 
> so is
> Being Patronising. Your not better than John (the asker) and he is no 
> better
> than you, it doesnt matter if hes a 15 yr old kid and your a 45 yr old
> University Professor. Your still the same, and when he asks something 
> that
> you dont know, Just dont answer it!
>
> I grow tired of seeing on this list the patronising and condescending 
> e-mail
> replies, and hope for your sake your grow up and learn better.
>
> Nevyn.
>

Nevyn,

You miss the point entirely.

The hot button is the "I don't have time . . . " bit.

Rip's point is that no one person's time on this list if more valuable 
than any other's.  Had the question been couched, "Can someone tell me 
where to find . . . "  Or simply, "What's the release schedule," I doubt 
anyone would have been cranky.  (Then again, that's not always true).

"I don't have time . . ."  is code for "I feel lazy and want someone 
else to do this for me."

Sorry, I've got a nine year old daughter and a six year old son, and I 
don't let them get away with that.  I show them how to do things, and 
when they're competent, when they ask me to do for them, I tell them "do 
it yourself."

That's the point of it.

And John and Rip are both long time residents who have contributed to 
this list in many ways, so lecturing them on manners comes across as 
presumptuous.

Yes, long timers often get clanish and occasionally appear to condescend 
fo newbes, and they should be busted for that.

This is not one of those instances, IMHO.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 08:48:12 -0800
Subject: Re: Jimmy The Hand
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Tuesday, January 15, 2002, at 02:47 AM, Nevyn wrote:

> *L* Alright then, all is forgiven I think. Hmm.
> I didnt mean any offence by the way!
>

I'm just curious as to why the "materialistic" crack.

And Rip makes an important point.  The one thing on this planet none of 
us can buy is time.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
From: "Nevyn" <alien4@wasp.net.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Jimmy The Hand
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 01:35:15 +0800
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> I'm just curious as to why the "materialistic" crack.

Perhaps a poor choice of words.

> And Rip makes an important point.  The one thing on this planet none of
> us can buy is time.

Yes indeed, Ray, I don't need to be told. :o) Thats what I was trying to
convey, that if he knew the answer, simply type a quick e-mail, or ignore
the question.

Nevyn

>
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
>
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
> stupidity.
>



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Subject: Re: Jimmy The Hand
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Subject: Re: Jimmy The Hand
From: Bob Montgomery <dante@kingcon.com>
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Actually, my better half bought me a wonderful watch for Christmas as a gift
(she's so thoughtful), so isn't that, in a manner of words, buying time?

Sorry, it's an awful joke... just felt the need to lighten the mood a bit :)

BTW, finished reading Serpent Queen last night again (must be the third time
since it came out) and onto Merchant Prince this evening... honestly Ray, I
think this series is some of your most underrated work. Rich characters, hot
plotlines and just a touch of salt for taste :) Fine literary cuisine, for
certain!

Really looking forward to the new books, since I thoroughly enjoyed Honoured
Enemy. That, and Joel seems like a real nice guy from the few conversations
I've had with him on the newsgroup.

Onto a non-FAQ question:

How was your experience working with these other writers different than your
collaboration with Janny? Did you find it easier, having done co-authoring
before, or was it just a totally different experience with each writer?

Also, I've chatted with Joel a little about the process of co-writing, but
I'll ask anyway. What is it about writing this way that appeals to you? Is
there just that compounding of creative energies that makes it fun, or is
there something else?

Just figured I'd though out some conversational stuff :)

> From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
> Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 08:48:12 -0800
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
> Subject: Re: Jimmy The Hand
> 
> And Rip makes an important point.  The one thing on this planet none of
> us can buy is time.



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Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 13:05:04 -0500
Subject: Re: Jimmy The Hand
From: Bob Montgomery <dante@kingcon.com>
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Well said, Ray... as always.

> From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
> Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 08:46:49 -0800
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
> Subject: Re: Jimmy The Hand
> 
> You miss the point entirely.
> 
> The hot button is the "I don't have time . . . " bit.
> 
> Rip's point is that no one person's time on this list if more valuable
> than any other's.  Had the question been couched, "Can someone tell me
> where to find . . . "  Or simply, "What's the release schedule," I doubt
> anyone would have been cranky.  (Then again, that's not always true).
> 
> "I don't have time . . ."  is code for "I feel lazy and want someone
> else to do this for me."
> 
> Sorry, I've got a nine year old daughter and a six year old son, and I
> don't let them get away with that.  I show them how to do things, and
> when they're competent, when they ask me to do for them, I tell them "do
> it yourself."
> 
> That's the point of it.
> 
> And John and Rip are both long time residents who have contributed to
> this list in many ways, so lecturing them on manners comes across as
> presumptuous.
> 
> Yes, long timers often get clanish and occasionally appear to condescend
> fo newbes, and they should be busted for that.
> 
> This is not one of those instances, IMHO.
> 
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
> 
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
> stupidity.
> 



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"Just figured I'd though out some conversational stuff :)"

Should have read, "throw out some conversational stuff" Typing too fast :)



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LOL...thanks and as for the statement "I don't have alot of time" I am in a 
computer science program with 16 credit hours(including 3 labs and Calculus 
2), working a 40 hour a week job and raising a 4 year old son....hmmm...I 
guess I did deserve the "blasting", but I can assure you, I am not lazy, 
anyway....To all those I upset....sorry, guess I'll post more careful next 
time....cheers all

John

_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com



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From: "Nevyn" <alien4@wasp.net.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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Hey John theres no need to apologise, though i dont agree with the studies,
the work and child rearing is great, im 18 yrs single dad with a baby and I
can understand how much time it can take up.

Nevyn
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Jeffries" <johncjeffries@hotmail.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FeistFans-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2002 3:02 AM
Subject: Thanks for the lecture


> LOL...thanks and as for the statement "I don't have alot of time" I am in a
> computer science program with 16 credit hours(including 3 labs and Calculus
> 2), working a 40 hour a week job and raising a 4 year old son....hmmm...I
> guess I did deserve the "blasting", but I can assure you, I am not lazy,
> anyway....To all those I upset....sorry, guess I'll post more careful next
> time....cheers all
>
> John
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
>



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The same happens on any list, nothing to worry about really. One just 
needs to take the time to get used to the ways of a new list, and if one 
cannot cope unsubscribe or just lurk. And after a while out here in this 
internet jungle you generally laugh at all of this and no longer take it 
as much to heart (the exception being the occasional flamewars, 
especially if it ends up offtopic).

Marc aka Caran...

Raymond Feist wrote:

>
> On Tuesday, January 15, 2002, at 01:52 AM, Nevyn wrote:
>
>> Rip
>> You can go stand in the halls of lims-kragma for all eternity you
>> cold-hearted materialistic bastard. I grow tired of this, why do you 
>> people
>> keep telling people off for asking a simple question? The internet is a
>> tool, YES AS IS THIS EMAIL LIST  It is, Im sure, created FOR FANS OF 
>> R.E.F
>> to find one another and discuss his works -- If you did not know the 
>> answer
>> to his question, don't send a reply!
>> For cryin out loud! Give it up and lighten up! Materialism is BAD and 
>> so is
>> Being Patronising. Your not better than John (the asker) and he is no 
>> better
>> than you, it doesnt matter if hes a 15 yr old kid and your a 45 yr old
>> University Professor. Your still the same, and when he asks something 
>> that
>> you dont know, Just dont answer it!
>>
>> I grow tired of seeing on this list the patronising and condescending 
>> e-mail
>> replies, and hope for your sake your grow up and learn better.
>>
>> Nevyn.
>>
>
> Nevyn,
>
> You miss the point entirely.
>
> The hot button is the "I don't have time . . . " bit.
>
> Rip's point is that no one person's time on this list if more valuable 
> than any other's.  Had the question been couched, "Can someone tell me 
> where to find . . . "  Or simply, "What's the release schedule," I 
> doubt anyone would have been cranky.  (Then again, that's not always 
> true).
>
> "I don't have time . . ."  is code for "I feel lazy and want someone 
> else to do this for me."
>
> Sorry, I've got a nine year old daughter and a six year old son, and I 
> don't let them get away with that.  I show them how to do things, and 
> when they're competent, when they ask me to do for them, I tell them 
> "do it yourself."
>
> That's the point of it.
>
> And John and Rip are both long time residents who have contributed to 
> this list in many ways, so lecturing them on manners comes across as 
> presumptuous.
>
> Yes, long timers often get clanish and occasionally appear to 
> condescend fo newbes, and they should be busted for that.
>
> This is not one of those instances, IMHO.
>
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
>
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
> stupidity.
>
>
>




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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 15:06:21 -0800
Subject: Re: Jimmy The Hand
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Tuesday, January 15, 2002, at 10:03 AM, Bob Montgomery wrote:

> Actually, my better half bought me a wonderful watch for Christmas as a 
> gift
> (she's so thoughtful), so isn't that, in a manner of words, buying time?
>
> Sorry, it's an awful joke... just felt the need to lighten the mood a 
> bit :)
>
> BTW, finished reading Serpent Queen last night again (must be the third 
> time
> since it came out) and onto Merchant Prince this evening... honestly 
> Ray, I
> think this series is some of your most underrated work. Rich 
> characters, hot
> plotlines and just a touch of salt for taste :) Fine literary cuisine, 
> for
> certain!
>
> Really looking forward to the new books, since I thoroughly enjoyed 
> Honoured
> Enemy. That, and Joel seems like a real nice guy from the few 
> conversations
> I've had with him on the newsgroup.
>
> Onto a non-FAQ question:
>
> How was your experience working with these other writers different than 
> your
> collaboration with Janny? Did you find it easier, having done 
> co-authoring
> before, or was it just a totally different experience with each writer?

Well, when we finished, Janny was the only collaborator I kissed.  
(Before either one of us was married to other people!  And we were just 
friends).

Seriously, each writer brings a different set of tools.  So far it's 
been fun, but no experience has been the same.

>
> Also, I've chatted with Joel a little about the process of co-writing, 
> but
> I'll ask anyway. What is it about writing this way that appeals to you? 
> Is
> there just that compounding of creative energies that makes it fun, or 
> is
> there something else?
>

You get to peek inside the process whereby another writer reaches a goal 
you've set together.  It gives you insight into the process.  And you 
get to see other people play in your sandbox, which is fun.

The three characters Joel contributed were wonderful, and I could never 
have dreamed them up in a hundred years.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
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Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 19:00:01 -0500
Subject: Re: Jimmy The Hand
From: Bob Montgomery <dante@kingcon.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
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> From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
> 
> Well, when we finished, Janny was the only collaborator I kissed.
> (Before either one of us was married to other people!  And we were just
> friends).

Awwwwwww... :) Cute. You're a saucy one, aren't you?!

> Seriously, each writer brings a different set of tools.  So far it's
> been fun, but no experience has been the same.

I'm glad to hear it's been fun... so far, your collaborative work has been
excellent, and certainly on par with your solo stuff (a tough trick, I'm
betting, and high praise for your talents).

> You get to peek inside the process whereby another writer reaches a goal
> you've set together.  It gives you insight into the process.  And you
> get to see other people play in your sandbox, which is fun.

What a great metaphor. In these books, you definately share "your world"
with another pen when co-authoring a book, and the sharing has so far
resulted in fantastic reading.

> The three characters Joel contributed were wonderful, and I could never
> have dreamed them up in a hundred years.

You're an evil man, Ray... so evil. I'm just itching to read that book, more
and more :) How about a prerelease copy? Little preview snippets for us,
maybe? I'd be happy to be your U.S. editor; I might even be able to swing
you a small publishing house (*wondering if Citizen Printing in Wisconsin
has the set-up for a major book release* hmmmmm) *grin*

Hey, thanks for the thoughtful responses. I've never co-written any thing
printed, but I've co-written music over the last 15 years and it can be an
incredible experience (sometimes negative, but more often than not,
extremely positive). Considering co-writing some fantasy based on an old D&D
world my friends and I created about 10 years ago... but, to bring it full
circle, time is definately the one thing that can't be bought, and there's
never enough of it :)

All the best,

Bob



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Subject: Re: Jimmy The Hand
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Jimmy The Hand
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Well, if the cryogenic studies on my critters pans out that might be
changed.

-James

> And Rip makes an important point.  The one thing on this planet none of
> us can buy is time.
>
> Best, R.E.F.



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Subject: RE: Jimmy The Hand
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 22:37:25 -0600
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Joe S." <diamondjoesmith@yahoo.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Jimmy The Hand
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 22:37:25 -0600
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Maybe not directly, but I've found that by hiring lackey's to do stuff
for me, that can free up some time for other things....

Now if only I could find enough money to afford a lackey....

And a lackey who would do my mundane things....*L*

Joseph A. Smith

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu 
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Raymond Feist
> Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2002 10:48 AM
> To: FEISTFANS-L
> Subject: Re: Jimmy The Hand
> 
> 
> 
> On Tuesday, January 15, 2002, at 02:47 AM, Nevyn wrote:
> 
> > *L* Alright then, all is forgiven I think. Hmm.
> > I didnt mean any offence by the way!
> >
> 
> I'm just curious as to why the "materialistic" crack.
> 
> And Rip makes an important point.  The one thing on this 
> planet none of 
> us can buy is time.
> 
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
> 
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be 
> explained away by 
> stupidity.
> 



_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com



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From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 18:19:42 +1000 (GMT+1000)
From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Jimmy The Hand
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> And John and Rip are both long time residents who have contributed to
> this list in many ways, so lecturing them on manners comes across as
> presumptuous.
> Yes, long timers often get clanish and occasionally appear to condescend
> fo newbes, and they should be busted for that.
> This is not one of those instances, IMHO.
> Best, R.E.F.

When do list members qualify for "long timer" status:)
Just wondering what my status is...

(been here since 1998)


Thanks
Darragh
-=-=
www.iamtheporkfireman.com
[Email]: s356179@student.uq.edu.au [ICQ]: 114283262



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From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
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Subject: Re: Jimmy The Hand
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 18:20:59 +1000 (GMT+1000)
From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Jimmy The Hand
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> > *L* Alright then, all is forgiven I think. Hmm.
> > I didnt mean any offence by the way!
> I'm just curious as to why the "materialistic" crack.
> And Rip makes an important point.  The one thing on this planet none of
> us can buy is time.
> Best, R.E.F.

This whole thread sounds a lot like an act by comedian/musician  Henry
Rollins.

I wonder if anyone knows what I'm on about.

Thanks
Darragh
-=-=
www.iamtheporkfireman.com
[Email]: s356179@student.uq.edu.au [ICQ]: 114283262



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----- Original Message -----
From: "Darragh Murray" <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2002 7:20 PM
Subject: Re: Jimmy The Hand


> This whole thread sounds a lot like an act by comedian/musician  Henry
> Rollins.
>
> I wonder if anyone knows what I'm on about.

Hell yes! Very interesting artist, is Hank.

One of my favourite monologues would probably be the one in the middle of
Bottom, by Tool... I love the way his voice rises at the end, when Maynard
J. Keenan finishes up the line.

But this isn't on-topic, I guess. :)

Cheers,
James



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Subject: rip
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Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 15:11:43 +0100
Subject: rip
From: "Sylvain Guehl" <fenyxkell@demo.xandmail.com>
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rip, I love you. Really. You're just outstanding. It's been 30 months
since I joined the list and for nothing in the world would I miss one
of your posts.
Thanks and please never lose this.
Syl
ps: Sorry Ray, this is becoming a WilliamsonFans list ;) (and between,
I stard HE in the plane from Paris to Istanbul last week and it's just
great)
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 14:44:03 +0000
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Subject: Re: rip
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At 03:11 PM 1/16/02 +0100, Sylvain Guehl wrote:
>rip, I love you. Really. You're just outstanding. It's been 30 months since I joined the list and for nothing in the world would I miss one of your posts.

You need a girlfriend, Sylvain.  Honest.

>Thanks and please never lose this.

As I was writing the response to John, I felt that I was
out of practice.  It's been months since I last contributed
substantially to the list, and certainly as long since
I tried to convince someone of the errors of their ways.
I felt clumsy, gauche.  Possibly it was the head cold
and/or the medication.

>ps: Sorry Ray, this is becoming a WilliamsonFans list ;) 

If that happens, I'm out of here.  Besides, it would be the ripfans-l,
and I expect it to happen just after _SOS_ gets published...
Besides, Cory is now scratching his head and saying 'Huh?'

>(and between, I stard HE in the plane from Paris to Istanbul last week and it's just great)

And they let you on the plane?  

Sorry, too obscure.  ("HE" is the military abbreviation
for "High Explosive" and is generally used when referring to 
artillery rounds)...

I enjoyed HE, but it's the only thing that I've ever read
with Forstchen's name on it so didn't know what to expect.
I'm /really/ waiting for MiL, because I've read lots of
Joel Rosenberg's work, and both he and Ray like to kill off
major characters.  Pity this is canon-we-didn't-know-about
and not canon-freshly-spun, or we might finally be rid of 
that woman.  I'm also waiting for JtH, simply because with
Jimmy in it, how can it be bad?

rip



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I've always been a fan of "Rattus Norvegicus."

Adieu

Jimmy

>From: "James Barker" <heechee@softhome.net>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
>Subject: OT: Henry Rollins (Was Re: Jimmy The Hand)
>Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 23:14:13 +1100
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Darragh Murray" <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
>To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
>Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2002 7:20 PM
>Subject: Re: Jimmy The Hand
>
>
> > This whole thread sounds a lot like an act by comedian/musician  Henry
> > Rollins.
> >
> > I wonder if anyone knows what I'm on about.
>
>Hell yes! Very interesting artist, is Hank.
>
>One of my favourite monologues would probably be the one in the middle of
>Bottom, by Tool... I love the way his voice rises at the end, when Maynard
>J. Keenan finishes up the line.
>
>But this isn't on-topic, I guess. :)
>
>Cheers,
>James
>


_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 16:39:44 +0100
Subject: Re: rip
From: "Sylvain Guehl" <fenyxkell@demo.xandmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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> You need a girlfriend, Sylvain. Honest.

I have one. Honest.

Syl
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Subject: Re: rip
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 09:19:03 -0800
Subject: Re: rip
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Wednesday, January 16, 2002, at 06:11 AM, Sylvain Guehl wrote:

> rip, I love you. Really. You're just outstanding. It's been 30 months 
> since I joined the list and for nothing in the world would I miss one 
> of your posts.
>
> Thanks and please never lose this.
>
> Syl
>
> ps: Sorry Ray, this is becoming a WilliamsonFans list ;) (and between, 
> I stard HE in the plane from Paris to Istanbul last week and it's just 
> great)
>

Fine by me.  He can buy the rounds when next I'm in Old Blighty.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 18:15:57 +0100
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 18:15:57 +0100
From: Caranorn Aglaredhel <caranorn@cmdnet.lu>
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Organization: House Phoenix
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Subject: Re: OT: Henry Rollins (Was Re: Jimmy The Hand)
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Do you always have to say be with god to end your emails? To me it 
either sounds fatalistic (as it is generaly a farewell, not good bye), 
or it sounds annoyingly pious (and I definitelly won't be with god in 
that case).

And of course it is occasionally used as a simple good bye, but that is 
really a vulgarised use of the word(s). Like my Luxembourgish native äddi.

au revoir, ou a la prochaine

Marc aka Caran... atheist with a paganist tendency (unfortunatelly I 
have not proven to my satisfaction that any god or deity exists, life 
would be so much easier otherwise)

James Silva wrote:

>
> I've always been a fan of "Rattus Norvegicus."
>
> Adieu
>
> Jimmy






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From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
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*** EOOH ***
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From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT: Henry Rollins (Was Re: Jimmy The Hand)
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 15:50:44 -0500
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Dear Caranorn:

As an American, I am writing in modern english. In modern english, adieu 
simply means goodbye or farewell. It is a "an expression of kind wishes at 
parting."

Goodbye and farewell meant pretty much the same thing the last time I 
checked, at least to 99% of English speakers (yes I made up this statistic).

I am an agnostic with an atheist tendency. I realize that adieu can be 
traced back to Middle English, to Old French, to Latin, blah, blah, blah, 
blah...., and that it did mean, and can still mean depending on which 
definition you choose to use, "I commend you to God." However, I am not 
about to go looking up every word in the OED to trace its roots in order to 
avoid aggravating some fundamentalist (non)religious type, before I put pen 
to paper. I really do not care what the roots of a particular word are, if 
it is a good word. I like the word adieu, and so I  will continue to use it. 
Being fickle, I am sure I will decide I like something better in the future, 
hmm, maybe a German farewell.

There are certain obviously vulgar words I will refrain from using. Adieu 
certainly does not rank among them.

I also often say "bless you" when I hear someone sneeze. I do it to be 
polite, despite its obvious religious connotations. Like I said, I dart back 
and forth between Atheist and Agnostic.

As far as the word God is concerned, I have seen, (but do not know if this 
is accurate) God used as a term to encompass all the gods of a particular 
pantheon. I realize that it is more accurate to equate it with the higher 
power of a monotheistic religion, usually the Judeo-Christian god. However, 
back in college, I read a good deal of Greek and Hellenistic philosophy 
where the philosophers would say God (not god) and were referring to not 
Zeus, Apollo, etc, but all of the gods as a collective. If this is an 
accurate use of the word God, it could, arguably, be used to describe all of 
the gods/spirits/higher life forms, of any pagan religion, including yours 
(when you are not being an atheist).

Anyway

Our feet are the Same.

Jimmy.

No wait, that isn't right, my German is just real bad.

Oh well

Adieu

Err, I mean Farewell

Wait, no, um, Good bye

:)~



>From: Caranorn Aglaredhel <caranorn@cmdnet.lu>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
>Subject: Re: OT: Henry Rollins (Was Re: Jimmy The Hand)
>Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 18:15:57 +0100
>
>Do you always have to say be with god to end your emails? To me it
>either sounds fatalistic (as it is generaly a farewell, not good bye),
>or it sounds annoyingly pious (and I definitelly won't be with god in
>that case).
>
>And of course it is occasionally used as a simple good bye, but that is
>really a vulgarised use of the word(s). Like my Luxembourgish native äddi.
>
>au revoir, ou a la prochaine
>
>Marc aka Caran... atheist with a paganist tendency (unfortunatelly I
>have not proven to my satisfaction that any god or deity exists, life
>would be so much easier otherwise)
>
>James Silva wrote:
>
>>
>>I've always been a fan of "Rattus Norvegicus."
>>
>>Adieu
>>
>>Jimmy
>
>
>
>


_________________________________________________________________
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From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
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Subject: language
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*** EOOH ***
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From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: language
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 17:33:03 -0500
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Speaking of languge, does anyone know what human languages are spoken up in 
the north lands. I have looked through the faq, but came up blank

Adieu

Jimmy

_________________________________________________________________
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Subject: Re: language
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From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: language
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 17:59:07 -0600
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IIRC it is a variation on the tongues of the Hadati hillmen, it says
something about it in A Darkness at Sethanon.

-James

----- Original Message -----
From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2002 4:33 PM
Subject: language


> Speaking of languge, does anyone know what human languages are spoken up in
> the north lands. I have looked through the faq, but came up blank
>
> Adieu
>
> Jimmy
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.
>



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From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re: language
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 19:18:12 -0500
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From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
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Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 19:18:12 -0500
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Thank you James, I will have to reread Darkness yet again, not that I mind.  
:)

One more question. Yabonese and Keshian are the same language, or at least 
both decended from an old version of Keshian. Is this correct?

And, is Hadati at all related to Yabonese, and/or Keshian, or is it an 
independant language?

Thank you all

Jimmy




>From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
>Subject: Re: language
>Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 17:59:07 -0600
>
>IIRC it is a variation on the tongues of the Hadati hillmen, it says
>something about it in A Darkness at Sethanon.
>
>-James
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
>To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
>Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2002 4:33 PM
>Subject: language
>
>
> > Speaking of languge, does anyone know what human languages are
>spoken up in
> > the north lands. I have looked through the faq, but came up blank
> >
> > Adieu
> >
> > Jimmy
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
>http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.
> >
>


_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
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Hey - I don't have much time to look through all the flame wars on this
list.

:-P

BJS

PS - That was a tongue in cheek smiley - calm down!! ;-)

PPS - Seriously though, I've just gone an subscribed to a whole load more
Tolkien lists on yahoogroups as the one I was on was a tad quiet. It's now
chaos in my Inbox. And yes, I take digests.



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Are we going to witness a confrontation between Jimmy and the Crawler
in any future novels? Or, having read all the novels, have I been
blind to a subtle hint of whom s/he is?

Thanks

Nevyn

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> Are we going to witness a confrontation between Jimmy and the Crawler in any future novels? Or, having read all the novels, have I been blind to a subtle hint of whom s/he is?
> 
> Thanks

Read Honoured Enemy again with a suspicious mind and I think 
you'll spot a very likely candidate...



"Fools, I'll destroy them all!" - Mahatma Gandhi.
Paul Cowan.



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>Being fickle, I am sure I will decide I like something better in the
>future, hmm, maybe a German farewell.

Tschuess! 

rip



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Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 09:22:00 +0000
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At 09:19 AM 1/16/02 -0800, Raymond Feist wrote:
>On Wednesday, January 16, 2002, at 06:11 AM, Sylvain Guehl wrote:
>>ps: Sorry Ray, this is becoming a WilliamsonFans list ;) 

>Fine by me.  He can buy the rounds when next I'm in Old Blighty.

I might just hold me to that.  

rip



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Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 10:55:26 +0100 (CET)
From: Michael Holzer <epicmike@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: OT: Our feet are the Same(Was Re: Jimmy The Hand)
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James Silva <kiehtan@hotmail.com> wrote: 
> Anyway
> 
> Our feet are the Same.
> 
> Jimmy.
> 
> No wait, that isn't right, my German is just real
> bad.

LOL
Should this mean "Auf Wiedersehen"??
This was really funny and made the day a bit "better".
:) I know it was a joke by the way! ;)

Some other phrases would be:
"Tschüss" like Rip already wrote
"Baba" which is a bit more "intimate" or at least
normally used if a man talks to a woman (or a kid)
"Machs gut" means "do it good" :)
"Wiederschauen" is pretty the same as "Wiedersehen" :D
"Schönen Tag (noch)" is "Have a nice day"

...and so on... :D

====I feel a change...back to a better day...hair stands on the back of my neck...in wilderness is the preservation of the world...so seek the wolf in thyself!

__________________________________________________________________

Gesendet von Yahoo! Mail - http://mail.yahoo.de
Ihre E-Mail noch individueller? - http://domains.yahoo.de



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Or wait for "Krondor : The Crawler", next book in the Riftwar legacy
(before "Krondor: The Dark Mage")

When I first play BaK, I thought the Crawler was Navon duSandau, then
I tought it was Makala. When I played RtK, I thought The Crawler was
Sidi.

Now I just gave up :)

Syl




> > Are we going to witness a confrontation between Jimmy and the Crawler in any future novels? Or, having read all the novels, have I been blind to a subtle hint of whom s/he is?
> > 
> > Thanks
> 
> Read Honoured Enemy again with a suspicious mind and I think 
> you'll spot a very likely candidate...
> 
> 
> 
> "Fools, I'll destroy them all!" - Mahatma Gandhi.
> Paul Cowan.
> 
> 


Fenyx Kell.
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 12:43:29 +0100
From: Caranorn Aglaredhel <caranorn@cmdnet.lu>
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Subject: Re: OT: Henry Rollins (Was Re: Jimmy The Hand)
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well, the term is not old French, it is modern french as well and does 
indeed mean a parting for good. I know what I speak of, after all I was 
raised with three languages (French, German and Luxembourgish (which you 
might call mid German)). And during the 5 years I lived in the US, and 
during any of the periods I spent in England and scotland, I never heard 
anyone say adieu. So till now I presumed it was not an English word, if 
you say otherwise I will live and learn.

As to the greek term of god, i would wonder whether that was used in 
english translations or in ancient greek? I don't know the later, but I 
would not be astonished if some things were greatly modified in 
translations, especially considering that most of the early translations 
(medieval) were made by christian clergy. Lastly, the god in adieu is 
definitelly christian. And obviously I have no religion as I have found 
no reason to believe in any god or groups of gods, on the other hand I 
keep looking and have an open mind (not to christianity as I know it 
quite well and had to reject it first before I became an atheist).

No worries

bis zum nachstenmal, a la prochaine, bis deser deeg (well I invented 
that one, but it makes sense other then the spelling, but I know no 
Luxembourger who knows teh correct spelling of our language;-)

Marc aka Caran...

James Silva wrote:

> Dear Caranorn:
>
> As an American, I am writing in modern english. In modern english, 
> adieu simply means goodbye or farewell. It is a "an expression of kind 
> wishes at parting."
>
> Goodbye and farewell meant pretty much the same thing the last time I 
> checked, at least to 99% of English speakers (yes I made up this 
> statistic).
>
> I am an agnostic with an atheist tendency. I realize that adieu can be 
> traced back to Middle English, to Old French, to Latin, blah, blah, 
> blah, blah...., and that it did mean, and can still mean depending on 
> which definition you choose to use, "I commend you to God." However, I 
> am not about to go looking up every word in the OED to trace its roots 
> in order to avoid aggravating some fundamentalist (non)religious type, 
> before I put pen to paper. I really do not care what the roots of a 
> particular word are, if it is a good word. I like the word adieu, and 
> so I  will continue to use it. Being fickle, I am sure I will decide I 
> like something better in the future, hmm, maybe a German farewell.
>
> There are certain obviously vulgar words I will refrain from using. 
> Adieu certainly does not rank among them.
>
> I also often say "bless you" when I hear someone sneeze. I do it to be 
> polite, despite its obvious religious connotations. Like I said, I 
> dart back and forth between Atheist and Agnostic.
>
> As far as the word God is concerned, I have seen, (but do not know if 
> this is accurate) God used as a term to encompass all the gods of a 
> particular pantheon. I realize that it is more accurate to equate it 
> with the higher power of a monotheistic religion, usually the 
> Judeo-Christian god. However, back in college, I read a good deal of 
> Greek and Hellenistic philosophy where the philosophers would say God 
> (not god) and were referring to not Zeus, Apollo, etc, but all of the 
> gods as a collective. If this is an accurate use of the word God, it 
> could, arguably, be used to describe all of the gods/spirits/higher 
> life forms, of any pagan religion, including yours (when you are not 
> being an atheist).
>
> Anyway
>
> Our feet are the Same.
>
> Jimmy.
>
> No wait, that isn't right, my German is just real bad.
>
> Oh well
>
> Adieu
>
> Err, I mean Farewell
>
> Wait, no, um, Good bye
>
> :)~
>
>
>
>> From: Caranorn Aglaredhel <caranorn@cmdnet.lu>
>> Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
>> Subject: Re: OT: Henry Rollins (Was Re: Jimmy The Hand)
>> Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 18:15:57 +0100
>>
>> Do you always have to say be with god to end your emails? To me it
>> either sounds fatalistic (as it is generaly a farewell, not good bye),
>> or it sounds annoyingly pious (and I definitelly won't be with god in
>> that case).
>>
>> And of course it is occasionally used as a simple good bye, but that is
>> really a vulgarised use of the word(s). Like my Luxembourgish native 
>> äddi.
>>
>> au revoir, ou a la prochaine
>>
>> Marc aka Caran... atheist with a paganist tendency (unfortunatelly I
>> have not proven to my satisfaction that any god or deity exists, life
>> would be so much easier otherwise)
>>
>> James Silva wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I've always been a fan of "Rattus Norvegicus."
>>>
>>> Adieu
>>>
>>> Jimmy
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
>
>
>





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Yep, that's very generic:-)

salut

Marc aka Caran...

Richard Williamson wrote:

>>Being fickle, I am sure I will decide I like something better in the future, hmm, maybe a German farewell.
>>
>
>Tschuess! 
>
>rip
>
>
>





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Subject: what if feels like for a gir.. err..magician?
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Nevyn" <alien4@wasp.net.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: what if feels like for a gir.. err..magician?
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 20:07:40 +0800
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

LOL

I was working on my computer last night and , errm, it electrocuted me
- I was holding a glass in my other hand which shattered and shorted
the circuit making my power failiure decvice turn the power off but I
was ok (just a nice burnt hand!)  and if any of u here have been
electrocuted by a standard power supply i dont know if u agree but it
felt amazing, i mean, it hurt, yet it didnt, and i could feel it
moving through my body, like some amazing power. I was pondering all
night within the fantasy world if this is what it feels like for a
magician when he calls a spell :P~

*L*

Nevyn

PS. I guess I got my just deserves for saying those nasty things to
rip, which I take back

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Subject: Re: The Crawler
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 19:45:10 +0800
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Nevyn" <alien4@wasp.net.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: The Crawler
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 19:45:10 +0800
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Wow, Ray's a busy boy isnt he.


>  ----- Original Message ----- 
>  From: Sylvain Guehl 
>  To: FEISTFANS-L 
>  Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2002 5:55 PM
>  Subject: Re: The Crawler
>
>
>  Or wait for "Krondor : The Crawler", next book in the Riftwar legacy (before "Krondor: The Dark Mage")
>
>  When I first play BaK, I thought the Crawler was Navon duSandau, then I tought it was Makala. When I played RtK, I thought The Crawler was Sidi.
>
>  Now I just gave up :)
>
>  Syl
>
>
>
>
>  > > Are we going to witness a confrontation between Jimmy and the Crawler in any future novels? Or, having read all the novels, have I been blind to a subtle hint of whom s/he is?
>  > > 
>  > > Thanks
>  > 
>  > Read Honoured Enemy again with a suspicious mind and I think 
>  > you'll spot a very likely candidate...
>  > 
>  > 
>  > 
>  > "Fools, I'll destroy them all!" - Mahatma Gandhi.
>  > Paul Cowan.
>  > 
>  > 
>
>
>  Fenyx Kell.
>
>
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--- Sylvain Guehl <fenyxkell@demo.xandmail.com> wrote:
> Or wait for "Krondor : The Crawler", next book in
> the Riftwar legacy (before "Krondor: The Dark Mage")
> 
> When I first play BaK, I thought the Crawler was
> Navon duSandau, then I tought it was Makala. When I
> played RtK, I thought The Crawler was Sidi.
> 
> Now I just gave up :)
> 
> Syl

Anyone else here think that RtK was a little short?

- Cao's one-eyed cousin

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Subject: Re: what if feels like for a gir.. err..magician?
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Barker" <heechee@softhome.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: what if feels like for a gir.. err..magician?
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 00:23:03 +1100
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----- Original Message -----
From: Nevyn
To: FEISTFANS-L
Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2002 11:07 PM
Subject: what if feels like for a gir.. err..magician?

>LOL
>
>I was working on my computer last night and , errm, it electrocuted me - I
>was holding a glass in my other hand which shattered and shorted the circuit
>making my power failiure decvice turn the power off but I was ok (just a
>nice burnt hand!)  and if any of u here have been electrocuted by a standard
>power supply i dont know if u agree but it felt amazing, i mean, it hurt,
>yet it didnt, and i could feel it moving through my body, like some amazing
>power. I was pondering all night within the fantasy world if this is what it
>feels like for a magician when he calls a spell :P~

Good old electric shocks... I was at a massive Scout camp once, with
purpose-built shower blocks and all, which was very nice. What wasn't nice
was that there was an improperly earthed wire in contact with the plumbing,
which (for cost reasons) was left bare. Every so often, it would send a
"wake-up signal" though the pipes, metal taps, and so on.

Just love reaching out to turn off the shower and being thrown backwards
hard enough to dent the door...

But back on-topic, as regards the feelings of a spell; I've always liked the
way Terry Pratchett put it in _The Light Fantastic_. Without referencing the
book, he mentions the feeling of white-hot fire spouting from under one's
fingernails, and gives the feeling as the reason wizards "never had much
truck with sex." <BG>

Cheers,
James



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From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT: Our feet are the Same(Was Re: Jimmy The Hand)
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 08:38:40 -0500
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*** EOOH ***
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From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT: Our feet are the Same(Was Re: Jimmy The Hand)
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 08:38:40 -0500
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You got it! Glad you liked the joke. Back when I was a Historical 
Interpreter (fancy word for a guy playing dressup as a pilgrim) at Plimoth 
Plantation, I used to try  and learn sayings from the various people that 
came through the village. Tourists really loved to hear Pilgrims greeting 
them in their own language. We got lots of German (and Japanese, and 
English, and French, and Swedish, and.......) tourists. So at first, the way 
I remembered Auf Wiedersehen was by thinking "our feet are the same."

Adieu

Jimmy

>From: Michael Holzer <epicmike@yahoo.com>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
>Subject: Re: OT: Our feet are the Same(Was Re: Jimmy The Hand)
>Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 10:55:26 +0100 (CET)
>
>James Silva <kiehtan@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > Anyway
> >
> > Our feet are the Same.
> >
> > Jimmy.
> >
> > No wait, that isn't right, my German is just real
> > bad.
>
>LOL
>Should this mean "Auf Wiedersehen"??
>This was really funny and made the day a bit "better".
>:) I know it was a joke by the way! ;)
>
>Some other phrases would be:
>"Tschüss" like Rip already wrote
>"Baba" which is a bit more "intimate" or at least
>normally used if a man talks to a woman (or a kid)
>"Machs gut" means "do it good" :)
>"Wiederschauen" is pretty the same as "Wiedersehen" :D
>"Schönen Tag (noch)" is "Have a nice day"
>
>...and so on... :D
>
>=====
>I feel a change...back to a better day...hair stands on the back of my 
>neck...in wilderness is the preservation of the world...so seek the wolf in 
>thyself!
>
>__________________________________________________________________
>
>Gesendet von Yahoo! Mail - http://mail.yahoo.de
>Ihre E-Mail noch individueller? - http://domains.yahoo.de
>




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Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
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From: lds627@attbi.com
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: what if feels like for a gir.. err..magician?
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 16:03:52 +0000
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Sounds more like you now know how Nikola Tesla felt when 
he made lightning dance in his hands

Larrry
> LOL
> 
> I was working on my computer last night and , errm, it electrocuted me - I was 
> holding a glass in my other hand which shattered and shorted the circuit making 
> my power failiure decvice turn the power off but I was ok (just a nice burnt 
> hand!)  and if any of u here have been electrocuted by a standard power supply i 
> dont know if u agree but it felt amazing, i mean, it hurt, yet it didnt, and i 
> could feel it moving through my body, like some amazing power. I was pondering 
> all night within the fantasy world if this is what it feels like for a magician 
> when he calls a spell :P~
> 
> *L*
> 
> Nevyn
> 
> PS. I guess I got my just deserves for saying those nasty things to rip, which I 
> take back
> 



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From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
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From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re: OT: Henry Rollins (Was Re: Jimmy The Hand)
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They say there are three types of people, Multi Lingual, Bi Lingual, and 
American. I must confess to being America. So when it comes to any language 
other than English, I must bow my head in defferance.

As far as Adieu is concened, I realize that it means the Christian god, I 
was just saying that since God can be defined seveal ways, then it does not 
HAVE to mean the Christian God, even though that was the original intent.

As far as how Adieu came into being as an English word, it came over from 
Old French. I'll take you at your word that it is also a modern French word. 
It makes perfect sense. I mean, I see no reason why it would be dropped from 
the French language as French evolved from Old French to Modern French. In 
English, I can asure that it does not have to mean farewell (for ever). It 
is simply a parting, whether it is for a week, a year, or forever, makes 
little difference. That being said, it surely is not an English word that is 
used very much anymore. I first came across it in English Literature class 
back in high school about 15 years ago. I liked it so it stuck. I use it 
much more in writing than I do in speech, since many Americans have never 
heard of it and would not know what I am saying. Thus I only say it to 
someone if I think they may know what i am talking about.


And, I would also have o agree with you about the origin of the word God, 
used in translated greek texts. Like I said, i do not know if this is an 
accurate way to use he word God in Modern English. It certainly could be a 
translation issue. Although now that it has sparked an interest, I will have 
to see what I can dig up about it.

Adieu

Jimmy



 >From: Caranorn Aglaredhel <caranorn@cmdnet.lu>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
>Subject: Re: OT: Henry Rollins (Was Re: Jimmy The Hand)
>Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 12:43:29 +0100
>
>well, the term is not old French, it is modern french as well and does
>indeed mean a parting for good. I know what I speak of, after all I was
>raised with three languages (French, German and Luxembourgish (which you
>might call mid German)). And during the 5 years I lived in the US, and
>during any of the periods I spent in England and scotland, I never heard
>anyone say adieu. So till now I presumed it was not an English word, if
>you say otherwise I will live and learn.
>
>As to the greek term of god, i would wonder whether that was used in
>english translations or in ancient greek? I don't know the later, but I
>would not be astonished if some things were greatly modified in
>translations, especially considering that most of the early translations
>(medieval) were made by christian clergy. Lastly, the god in adieu is
>definitelly christian. And obviously I have no religion as I have found
>no reason to believe in any god or groups of gods, on the other hand I
>keep looking and have an open mind (not to christianity as I know it
>quite well and had to reject it first before I became an atheist).
>
>No worries
>
>bis zum nachstenmal, a la prochaine, bis deser deeg (well I invented
>that one, but it makes sense other then the spelling, but I know no
>Luxembourger who knows teh correct spelling of our language;-)
>
>Marc aka Caran...
>
>James Silva wrote:
>
>>Dear Caranorn:
>>
>>As an American, I am writing in modern english. In modern english,
>>adieu simply means goodbye or farewell. It is a "an expression of kind
>>wishes at parting."
>>
>>Goodbye and farewell meant pretty much the same thing the last time I
>>checked, at least to 99% of English speakers (yes I made up this
>>statistic).
>>
>>I am an agnostic with an atheist tendency. I realize that adieu can be
>>traced back to Middle English, to Old French, to Latin, blah, blah,
>>blah, blah...., and that it did mean, and can still mean depending on
>>which definition you choose to use, "I commend you to God." However, I
>>am not about to go looking up every word in the OED to trace its roots
>>in order to avoid aggravating some fundamentalist (non)religious type,
>>before I put pen to paper. I really do not care what the roots of a
>>particular word are, if it is a good word. I like the word adieu, and
>>so I  will continue to use it. Being fickle, I am sure I will decide I
>>like something better in the future, hmm, maybe a German farewell.
>>
>>There are certain obviously vulgar words I will refrain from using.
>>Adieu certainly does not rank among them.
>>
>>I also often say "bless you" when I hear someone sneeze. I do it to be
>>polite, despite its obvious religious connotations. Like I said, I
>>dart back and forth between Atheist and Agnostic.
>>
>>As far as the word God is concerned, I have seen, (but do not know if
>>this is accurate) God used as a term to encompass all the gods of a
>>particular pantheon. I realize that it is more accurate to equate it
>>with the higher power of a monotheistic religion, usually the
>>Judeo-Christian god. However, back in college, I read a good deal of
>>Greek and Hellenistic philosophy where the philosophers would say God
>>(not god) and were referring to not Zeus, Apollo, etc, but all of the
>>gods as a collective. If this is an accurate use of the word God, it
>>could, arguably, be used to describe all of the gods/spirits/higher
>>life forms, of any pagan religion, including yours (when you are not
>>being an atheist).
>>
>>Anyway
>>
>>Our feet are the Same.
>>
>>Jimmy.
>>
>>No wait, that isn't right, my German is just real bad.
>>
>>Oh well
>>
>>Adieu
>>
>>Err, I mean Farewell
>>
>>Wait, no, um, Good bye
>>
>>:)~
>>
>>
>>
>>>From: Caranorn Aglaredhel <caranorn@cmdnet.lu>
>>>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>>>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
>>>Subject: Re: OT: Henry Rollins (Was Re: Jimmy The Hand)
>>>Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 18:15:57 +0100
>>>
>>>Do you always have to say be with god to end your emails? To me it
>>>either sounds fatalistic (as it is generaly a farewell, not good bye),
>>>or it sounds annoyingly pious (and I definitelly won't be with god in
>>>that case).
>>>
>>>And of course it is occasionally used as a simple good bye, but that is
>>>really a vulgarised use of the word(s). Like my Luxembourgish native
>>>äddi.
>>>
>>>au revoir, ou a la prochaine
>>>
>>>Marc aka Caran... atheist with a paganist tendency (unfortunatelly I
>>>have not proven to my satisfaction that any god or deity exists, life
>>>would be so much easier otherwise)
>>>
>>>James Silva wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>I've always been a fan of "Rattus Norvegicus."
>>>>
>>>>Adieu
>>>>
>>>>Jimmy
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>_________________________________________________________________
>>Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>




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Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
   -- Benjamin Franklin





_________________________________________________________________
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From: Dun Xiahou <xiahoudun13@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: what if feels like for a gir.. err..magician?
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 12:15:01 -0800 (PST)
From: Dun Xiahou <xiahoudun13@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: what if feels like for a gir.. err..magician?
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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Wow, you got electrocuted and you still can type? 
That's one powerful ghost.  Technically, electrocution
is by definition "death by electric shock."  But, I
know what you meant, but sometimes it's fun to point
out common missuses for English words.

- Cao's one-eyed cousin

P.S.  Pardon my spelling, it's never been my forte in
English.  Also, please feel free to add any
corrections to anything I say, I'm always looking for
more of these little gems.

--- lds627@attbi.com wrote:
> Sounds more like you now know how Nikola Tesla felt
> when 
> he made lightning dance in his hands
> 
> Larrry
> > LOL
> > 
> > I was working on my computer last night and ,
> errm, it electrocuted me - I was 
> > holding a glass in my other hand which shattered
> and shorted the circuit making 
> > my power failiure decvice turn the power off but I
> was ok (just a nice burnt 
> > hand!)  and if any of u here have been
> electrocuted by a standard power supply i 
> > dont know if u agree but it felt amazing, i mean,
> it hurt, yet it didnt, and i 
> > could feel it moving through my body, like some
> amazing power. I was pondering 
> > all night within the fantasy world if this is what
> it feels like for a magician 
> > when he calls a spell :P~
> > 
> > *L*
> > 
> > Nevyn
> > 
> > PS. I guess I got my just deserves for saying
> those nasty things to rip, which I 
> > take back
> > 
> 


__________________________________________________
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--

On Thu, 17 Jan 2002 21:47:43  
 Plite wrote:
>> Are we going to witness a confrontation between Jimmy and the Crawler in any future novels? Or, having read all the novels, have I been blind to a subtle hint of whom s/he is?
>> 
>> Thanks
>
>Read Honoured Enemy again with a suspicious mind and I think 
>you'll spot a very likely candidate...
>
>
>


Not sure about that. I asked the question about that particular
caracter in HE, and the possibility for him to be the Crawler, and I
seem to recall the answer was no.

Maybe I don't remember correctly though.

PJ



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Subject: Re: OT: Henry Rollins (Was Re: Jimmy The Hand)
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Subject: Re: OT: Henry Rollins (Was Re: Jimmy The Hand)
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my two cents. I am french. "Adieu" means "bye for ever". In good or
not. Any way. When you say bye to someone for the LAST time, you say
"adieu". In french. That's all :)

Syl

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Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 00:45:12 +0100
Subject: Re:_The_Crawler
From: "Sylvain Guehl" <fenyxkell@demo.xandmail.com>
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> Anyone else here think that RtK was a little short?

Yes it was. Too short, too linear, too buggy. But the fights, the
drawings and the soundtrack were great (the only good points in it).

Syl

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Subject: Re: OT: Our feet are the Same(Was Re: Jimmy The Hand)
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Subject: Re: OT: Our feet are the Same(Was Re: Jimmy The Hand)
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> You got it! Glad you liked the joke. 

The joke was nice, and do some french speaker understand this one :
"What a fair foot" ? :)

Lol, I hope no one does, for it's pretty bad :)

Syl

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<The joke was nice, and do some french speaker understand this one : "What a 
fair foot" ? :)

Lol, I hope no one does, for it's pretty bad :)

Syl>

Hmmm. I just joined this mailing list and already I'm being told do "go 
forth and procreate". Or words to that effect... i think. Vas-tu faire 
foutre? not sure on spelling - only learnt it by mouth on a French trip. i 
was told it meant to go do it to yourself - though my, limited, 
understanding of the grammar suggests otherwise. What is the true meaning? 
And while we're on this i once heard that an Arabic curse,  "kah saw ma"?, 
was quite volatile. Anybody heard of this?

AndrewN

_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com



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Subject: Re:_The_Crawler
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Sylvain Guehl" <fenyxkell@demo.xandmail.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Friday, January 18, 2002 10:45 AM
Subject: Re:_The_Crawler


> > Anyone else here think that RtK was a little short?
>
> Yes it was. Too short, too linear, too buggy. But the fights, the drawings
> and the soundtrack were great (the only good points in it).

I have to disagree cause I thought that the game was great just because it
was a Feist game, and continued the story, while short and linear, I still
enjoyed it because of what it is,
>
> Syl
>
> ***************************************************************
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>
>



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Subject: Re: what if feels like for a gir.. err..magician?
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Andy Hogan" <andyhogan@dcsi.net.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: what if feels like for a gir.. err..magician?
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It'd be really interesting to know what it would be like to feel magic
running through your body...never thought about it. I would ahve to
think it would be like being shocked by electricity. I have been
zapped far too many times for my liking, and currently get nervous
about opening car doors, touching metal door handles ater walking on
carpet and anyother place I may get a a small static shock. I've only
been zapped 3 times by computer power supplies. Dont tell work
experience kids not to touch the live wires and then touch them as you
point them out - you'll feel really embarased and the kid will laugh
the whole week long.

`Andy
>  ----- Original Message ----- 
>  From: Nevyn 
>  To: FEISTFANS-L 
>  Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2002 11:07 PM
>  Subject: what if feels like for a gir.. err..magician?
>
>
>  LOL
>
>  I was working on my computer last night and , errm, it electrocuted me - I was holding a glass in my other hand which shattered and shorted the circuit making my power failiure decvice turn the power off but I was ok (just a nice burnt hand!)  and if any of u here have been electrocuted by a standard power supply i dont know if u agree but it felt amazing, i mean, it hurt, yet it didnt, and i could feel it moving through my body, like some amazing power. I was pondering all night within the fantasy world if this is what it feels like for a magician when he calls a spell :P~
>
>  *L*
>
>  Nevyn
>
>  PS. I guess I got my just deserves for saying those nasty things to rip, which I take back

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Subject: Re: OT: Henry Rollins (Was Re: Jimmy The Hand)
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*** EOOH ***
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I will make certain not to use the word Adieu when I want to say goodbye to 
someone, while I am speaking to them in French. Of course,I would have to 
learn French first. :)

Adieu

Jimmy


>From: "Sylvain Guehl" <fenyxkell@demo.xandmail.com>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
>Subject: Re: OT: Henry Rollins (Was Re: Jimmy The Hand)
>Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 00:43:27 +0100
>
>my two cents. I am french. "Adieu" means "bye for ever". In good or not. 
>Any way. When you say bye to someone for the LAST time, you say "adieu". In 
>french. That's all :)
>
>Syl
>
>***************************************************************
>This e-mail and any attachments are confidential.
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Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 15:06:40 -0500
Subject: For John on Crydee.com and books for sale
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Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 15:06:40 -0500
Subject: For John on Crydee.com and books for sale
From: Bob Montgomery <dante@kingcon.com>
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Hi John,

Just a quick question on the books you have listed for sale on the site.
Since I know that you haven't been able to update it in a while, I was
wondering how close the site list was to what you actually have left.

Also, today was really the first day I'd looked into that section of the
site, and I have to say that the artwork for the Serpentwar Saga for the UK
editions is really excellent. Just from my taste, I think the UK covers are
much better than the US ones; they're really gorgeous. Someday I'd love to
have the UK version complete, but not for a long time :)

Anyhoo, I figured it would be on-topic and a small public service
announcement if I asked here, and you answered here; that way everyone knows
the status and you don't have to answer has many emails, hopefully :)

Hope you're doing well. All the best!

Bob M.




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From: Nathan <nathan@irish4ever.com>
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>I have to disagree cause I thought that the game was great just because it
>was a Feist game, and continued the story, while short and linear, I still
>enjoyed it because of what it is,

I think that "Return to Krondor" is a great game, however nothing can
be compared to "Betrayal at Krondor". I didn't like in RtK witchcraft,
vampires and direct interference of a god (Kahooli), although that was
cool: "I am the god of vengeance! Now defend yourself!". Because these
things were absent in R. E. Feist's books. And beside that you
couldn't go freely outside of Krondor. I wanted to visit e.g. Sarth,
Malac's Cross, Darkmoor and LaMut. No way. :(

Best regards
Father Nathan


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Subject: Re:_The_Crawler
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 13:12:06 -0800 (PST)
From: Dun Xiahou <xiahoudun13@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re:_The_Crawler
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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Personally, I didn't mind the linearity of it.  I
played it like an interactive book.  However, it felt
more like an interactive pamphlet.  It was just too
darned short.  I would really love for there to be
more games in the series, but honestly they could even
tone down on all the graphics if they want, I'd rather
have a longer game.  From what I heard, the biggest
reason why it was so short was the time/resources
needed to make all the static scenes.  Then again, as
I am far from well informed, I am probably wrong.

- Cao's one-eyed cousin

--- Andy Hogan <andyhogan@dcsi.net.au> wrote:
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Sylvain Guehl" <fenyxkell@demo.xandmail.com>
> To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> Sent: Friday, January 18, 2002 10:45 AM
> Subject: Re:_The_Crawler
> 
> 
> > > Anyone else here think that RtK was a little
> short?
> >
> > Yes it was. Too short, too linear, too buggy. But
> the fights, the drawings
> and the soundtrack were great (the only good points
> in it).
> 
> I have to disagree cause I thought that the game was
> great just because it
> was a Feist game, and continued the story, while
> short and linear, I still
> enjoyed it because of what it is,
> >
> > Syl
> >
> >
> ***************************************************************
> > This e-mail and any attachments are confidential.
> > They may contain privileged information and are
> intended
> > for the named addressee(s) only.
> > They must not be distributed without our consent.
> > If you are not the intended recipient,
> > please notify us immediately and do not disclose,
> > distribute, or retain this email and any part of
> it.
> > We believe, but do not warrant, that this e-mail
> and any
> > attachments are virus free.
> > You must therefore take full responsibility for
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> > Subsidiaries of X And Mail reserve the right to
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> >
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> >
> >
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Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 23:35:08 +0200
From: Ziad El-Hajj <pilgrim@inco.com.lb>
To: Feist Fans <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Krondor and Empire series (Warning: potential spoilers)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Hi all

After years of relentless pursuit, I've finally managed to get my hands
on all Ray's books (not so easy to find over here. Actually, I had to
get my aunt to get them to me from Kenya). In about 2 weeks I blasted my
way through the Empire and Krondor series (not bad you'll admit!), and
I'd like to share my feelings with the list.

The Empire trilogy was very enjoyable. It was a pleasure to experience
the Riftwar from the other sire. Also, many little things said in PotB
and TKB make much more sense (such as the reference to "the Assembly's
rule being over"). My favorite of the three was Servant, mainly because
of Kevin I think. He was a great character!
I thought the ending of Mistress was satisfying. For one thing, the
divorce was totally unexpected without being improbable, and the House
Lujan bit was great!
Bottom line: kudos to Ray and Janny. While I didn't like the Empire
trilogy as much as the Riftwar, that is only MY opinion: no denying the
books are excellent.

As for the Krondor books, I have mixed feelings. I am one of those who
consider BaK to be one of the best CRPGs (and that's from someone who's
played things as ancient as Temple of Apshai and Telengard), though I
haven't played RtK. Both KtB and TOTG show the weaknesses of
novelizations, but I have to admit they were much better than what I
would have expected of books written after games. I think Ray has done
an excellent job in picking which subplots to keep and which to discard.
I think (IMHO) that as KtB stands, this was simply the best possible way
to do it. Besides some of the added scenes (not present in the game)
were superb, particularly the conversation between Gorath and Dolgan. It
really added a depth to the book beyond a simple novelization.
Of the three, I think KtA was my favorite, probably because it lacks the
"game" aspect of the others.
Well what else can I see. Once again, great work Ray. You keep writing,
and I'll keep reading <g>

Ziad

"Never underestimate the human capacity for stupid, illogical, and petty
behavior."
Kevin of Zun


PS: I just got back from seeing Fellowship of the Ring. I'll only say
one word: impressive.



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How can you possibly say that these things are absent from Mr Feist's books? 
There have been no vampires that I am aware of, but there certainly are 
gods, and Kahooli is one of them. Also, Magicians were persecuted in some 
places for being witches. I can not think of a particular novel off the top 
of my head, and can not look it up now being at work, but I am sure others 
on the list can vouch for this. Actually I am pretty sure it is mentioned in 
Magican when they speak of Kulgan being the court magician of Crydee.

Adieu

Jimmy

>From: Nathan <nathan@irish4ever.com>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
>Subject: Re:_The_Crawler
>Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 12:35:12 -0800 (PST)
>
>
> >I have to disagree cause I thought that the game was great just because 
>it
> >was a Feist game, and continued the story, while short and linear, I 
>still
> >enjoyed it because of what it is,
>
>I think that "Return to Krondor" is a great game, however nothing can be 
>compared to "Betrayal at Krondor". I didn't like in RtK witchcraft, 
>vampires and direct interference of a god (Kahooli), although that was 
>cool: "I am the god of vengeance! Now defend yourself!". Because these 
>things were absent in R. E. Feist's books. And beside that you couldn't go 
>freely outside of Krondor. I wanted to visit e.g. Sarth, Malac's Cross, 
>Darkmoor and LaMut. No way. :(
>
>Best regards
>Father Nathan
>
>
>_____________________________________________________________
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Kevin" <kevykev@sbcglobal.net>
To: "Feistfans" <Feistfans-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: The Crawler (SPOILER ALERT)
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 15:08:06 -0800
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>How can you possibly say that these things are absent from Mr Feist's
>books?
>There have been no vampires that I am aware of...-James Silva
S
P
O
I
L
E
R
S
P
A
C
E

Actually there are vampires inTotG.

                             Kev
Caution:Trust Me

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From: Nathan <nathan@irish4ever.com>
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From: Nathan <nathan@irish4ever.com>
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--- "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>How can you possibly say that these things are absent from Mr Feist's books? 
>There have been no vampires that I am aware of, but there certainly are 
>gods, and Kahooli is one of them. Also, Magicians were persecuted in some 
>places for being witches. I can not think of a particular novel off the top 
>of my head, and can not look it up now being at work, but I am sure others 
>on the list can vouch for this. Actually I am pretty sure it is mentioned in 
>Magican when they speak of Kulgan being the court magician of Crydee.

1. vampires
  You admitted that I am right.
2. witches
  Now I admit that You are right. :)
3. gods
  You didn't understand me. I meant that it was strange that Kahooli
  appeared himself - such a revelation never seen before in the books,
  explicit manifestation of the god. I don't count Pug and Tomas's
  visit to Lims-Kragma's realm. I hope that you've got the point now.

Best wishes

Father Nathan


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Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 23:22:57 +0000
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From: John <john@crydee.com>
Subject: Re: For John on Crydee.com and books for sale
References: <B86DEA7F.400B%dante@kingcon.com>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 23:22:57 +0000
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From: John <john@crydee.com>
Subject: Re: For John on Crydee.com and books for sale
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Bob Montgomery <dante@kingcon.com> writes
>Hi John,
>
>Just a quick question on the books you have listed for sale on the site.
>Since I know that you haven't been able to update it in a while, I was
>wondering how close the site list was to what you actually have left.

Most of the items or similar are still for sale. I have in many cases 
multiple copies

Still trying to figure a software problem I can FTP to my site but 
Frontpage doesn't want to play :( so I may have to implement manual 
updates for a while
-- 
John

john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.

Raymond E Feist Ring
http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm



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From: Nathan <nathan@irish4ever.com>
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Subject: Re: Krondor and Empire series (Warning: potential spoilers)
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*** EOOH ***
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From: Nathan <nathan@irish4ever.com>
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--- Ziad El-Hajj <pilgrim@inco.com.lb> wrote:
>Besides some of the added scenes (not present in the game)
>were superb, particularly the conversation between Gorath and Dolgan.
>It really added a depth to the book beyond a simple novelization.

This conversation was magnificent, this is my favourite part of all
R.E.Feist's books, all I say. When I read it for the first time, I was
stunned by its beauty, wisdom and I'm not able to say what more. I was
simply overcome with emotion, though it's rather hard to move
me. Enough to say that I almost wept.

Compliments
Father Nathan

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Subject: Re: OT: Our feet are the Same(Was Re: Jimmy The Hand)
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Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002 01:00:57 +0100
Subject: Re: OT: Our feet are the Same(Was Re: Jimmy The Hand)
From: "Sylvain Guehl" <fenyxkell@demo.xandmail.com>
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> What is the true meaning? 

Well quite simple... "Vas te faire foutre" is the french form for "fuck you".

Syl

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*** EOOH ***
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From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re:_The_Crawler (SPOILER ALERT)
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 23:24:04 -0500
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 19 Jan 2002 04:24:05.0075 (UTC) FILETIME=[213A9230:01C1A0A1]
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If I were Nathan, I would argue that Tear of the Gods doesn't really count 
since it is a novelization of the Video game.

However, to counter, I would wager that there WERE vampires in the Midkemia 
RPG, and since THAT is the world Ray's books are based on, then they do 
exist in Ray's world. They simply hadn't made it into the novels.

Adieu

Jimmy



>From: "Kevin" <kevykev@sbcglobal.net>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: "Feistfans" <Feistfans-L@cornell.edu>
>Subject: Re:_The_Crawler (SPOILER ALERT)
>Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 15:08:06 -0800
>
>How can you possibly say that these things are absent from Mr Feist's 
>books?
>There have been no vampires that I am aware of...-James Silva
>S
>P
>O
>I
>L
>E
>R
>S
>P
>A
>C
>E
>
>Actually there are vampires inTotG.
>
>                              Kev
>Caution:Trust Me


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.



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Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 20:32:28 -0800
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 20:32:28 -0800
From: Carl Dershem <dershem@cox.net>
Organization: Project Selene
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: _The_Crawler (SPOILER ALERT)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

James Silva wrote:
> 
> If I were Nathan, I would argue that Tear of the Gods doesn't really count
> since it is a novelization of the Video game.
> 
> However, to counter, I would wager that there WERE vampires in the Midkemia
> RPG, and since THAT is the world Ray's books are based on, then they do
> exist in Ray's world. They simply hadn't made it into the novels.

I'd tend to say that if Ray's used them in a book, they exist on
Midkemia.

cd
-- 
Death to all Absolutists!



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From: "Nevyn" <alien4@wasp.net.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: a quote from rays book plz
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002 16:26:06 +0800
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Nevyn" <alien4@wasp.net.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: a quote from rays book plz
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002 16:26:06 +0800
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Hey guys I am looking for the part from Servant of the Emp. where Kevin
has Mara's neck in his hands and is explaining how his honour works, I
dont own the books myself so I cant get it but if someone could quote to
me what he said, much appreciated.

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From: "ihug" <mint@ihug.com.au>
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Subject: re:a quote from rays book plz
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From: "ihug" <mint@ihug.com.au>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: re:a quote from rays book plz
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002 19:05:26 +1000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Nevyn,

when he has Mara's neck in his hands he says (first)
"I see you are frightened at last"

Then he says
"You call me honorless slave, and barbarian,"

" and yet I am neither.  If you were a man you would now be dead,
and I would die knowing I had removed a powerful lord from my enemies'
ranks.
But where I come from, it is shameful for a man to harm a woman.
So I will let you go.  You can call your guards - maybe have me beaten or
killed.
But we have a saying in Zun: 'You can kill me, but you can't eat me.'
Remember this, when you watch me die as I hang from a tree.
No matter what you do to my body, my soul and heart are free.
Remember that I allowed you to kill me.  I permitted you to live because my
honor required it.
>From this moment forward, your every breath is a slave's gift."

"My gift"

hope this is what you were after :)  The scene is on pages 97 and 98 of the
book.

Mint



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Subject: re:a quote from rays book plz
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002 18:14:55 +0800
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Nevyn" <alien4@wasp.net.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: re:a quote from rays book plz
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002 18:14:55 +0800
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Thank you very very much! Thats juat an amazing quote isnt it?

Nevyn
----- Original Message -----
From: "ihug" <mint@ihug.com.au>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Saturday, January 19, 2002 5:05 PM
Subject: re:a quote from rays book plz


> Nevyn,
>
> when he has Mara's neck in his hands he says (first)
> "I see you are frightened at last"
>
> Then he says
> "You call me honorless slave, and barbarian,"
>
> " and yet I am neither.  If you were a man you would now be dead,
> and I would die knowing I had removed a powerful lord from my enemies'
> ranks.
> But where I come from, it is shameful for a man to harm a woman.
> So I will let you go.  You can call your guards - maybe have me beaten or
> killed.
> But we have a saying in Zun: 'You can kill me, but you can't eat me.'
> Remember this, when you watch me die as I hang from a tree.
> No matter what you do to my body, my soul and heart are free.
> Remember that I allowed you to kill me.  I permitted you to live because my
> honor required it.
> >From this moment forward, your every breath is a slave's gift."
>
> "My gift"
>
> hope this is what you were after :)  The scene is on pages 97 and 98 of the
> book.
>
> Mint
>



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Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002 08:08:42 -0500
Subject: Re: For John on Crydee.com and books for sale
X-PH: V4.1@cornell.edu (Cornell Modified) 
From: Bob Montgomery <dante@kingcon.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
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Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002 08:08:42 -0500
Subject: Re: For John on Crydee.com and books for sale
From: Bob Montgomery <dante@kingcon.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
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Thanks John, for the update!

take care

> From: John <john@crydee.com>
> Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 23:22:57 +0000
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
> Subject: Re: For John on Crydee.com and books for sale
> 
> Most of the items or similar are still for sale. I have in many cases
> multiple copies
> 
> Still trying to figure a software problem I can FTP to my site but
> Frontpage doesn't want to play :( so I may have to implement manual
> updates for a while
> -- 
> John



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Subject: Re: _The_Crawler (SPOILER ALERT)
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002 10:08:02 -0500
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From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re: _The_Crawler (SPOILER ALERT)
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002 10:08:02 -0500
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Another good counter, because Ray most likely would not have approved the 
video game's story line if it did not exist in his world. And he almost 
certainly would have deleated it when it came to novelizing the game in Tear 
of the Gods. Of course, I would not want to speak for Ray.
Adieu

Jimmy

How about the Kahooli thing though?

>From: Carl Dershem <dershem@cox.net>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
>Subject: Re: _The_Crawler (SPOILER ALERT)
>Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 20:32:28 -0800
>
>James Silva wrote:
> >
> > If I were Nathan, I would argue that Tear of the Gods doesn't really 
>count
> > since it is a novelization of the Video game.
> >
> > However, to counter, I would wager that there WERE vampires in the 
>Midkemia
> > RPG, and since THAT is the world Ray's books are based on, then they do
> > exist in Ray's world. They simply hadn't made it into the novels.
>
>I'd tend to say that if Ray's used them in a book, they exist on
>Midkemia.
>
>cd
>--
>Death to all Absolutists!
>


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.



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Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002 08:18:31 -0800
Subject: Re: _The_Crawler (SPOILER ALERT)
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
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On Saturday, January 19, 2002, at 07:08 AM, James Silva wrote:

>
> Another good counter, because Ray most likely would not have approved 
> the video game's story line if it did not exist in his world. And he 
> almost certainly would have deleated it when it came to novelizing the 
> game in Tear of the Gods. Of course, I would not want to speak for Ray.
> Adieu
>

Vampires existed in the game.  I personally never liked them, much, 
because they were eastern European and very tied to the Dracula mythos.  
But the boys and girls at Pyrotechnix/7th Level put them in the game and 
I decided to make them a slightly more generic "undead" and chalk it up 
to the powers of Nalar.

We also used Orcs, Balrogs, and other Tolkein stuff, which I took out of 
the novels.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: _The_Crawler (SPOILER ALERT)
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From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: _The_Crawler (SPOILER ALERT)
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002 12:37:18 -0500
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Hi Ray:

You have goblins in your novels though. Aren't Orcs and Goblins pretty much 
the same thing? I know in D&D they make a slight distinction, but even in 
the Tolkein stuff, it more or less says that the terms Orc and Goblin are 
interchangeable based on the stuff I have read (Bestiary, Lord of the Rings, 
and the Hobbit). The only other Orc/Goblin term I have seen in Tolkein that 
is not Entirely interchangeable would be the Urak-Hai, which are essentially 
big Orcs/Goblins that suffer no negative effects in sunlight. In D&D I guess 
you could call them Bugbears. But when it comes down to it, they are still 
ust big Orcs/goblins.

And isn't Balrog just another name for demon?

Am I way off the mark here? Anybody? My knowledge of Tolkein is only 
elementary.

Adieu

Jimmy


>From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
>Subject: Re: _The_Crawler (SPOILER ALERT)
>Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002 08:18:31 -0800
>
>
>On Saturday, January 19, 2002, at 07:08 AM, James Silva wrote:
>
>>
>>Another good counter, because Ray most likely would not have approved
>>the video game's story line if it did not exist in his world. And he
>>almost certainly would have deleated it when it came to novelizing the
>>game in Tear of the Gods. Of course, I would not want to speak for Ray.
>>Adieu
>>
>
>Vampires existed in the game.  I personally never liked them, much,
>because they were eastern European and very tied to the Dracula mythos.
>But the boys and girls at Pyrotechnix/7th Level put them in the game and
>I decided to make them a slightly more generic "undead" and chalk it up
>to the powers of Nalar.
>
>We also used Orcs, Balrogs, and other Tolkein stuff, which I took out of
>the novels.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
>stupidity.
>


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.



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From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re:_The_Crawler
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Hey Father Nathan:

After some pondering, it has come to my attention that in the Serpentwar 
Saga, Nakor (with the finacial aid of Roo) started to begin again the 
worship of the Goddess of Good (her name escapes me right now) by building a 
couple of statues to her, a temple (warehouse), and attracting some 
converts. One of his female students took on the manifestation of this 
goddess in a manner that was very similar (though not exactly) to the way 
that Kahooli does through (William?).

Adieu

Jimmy


>From: Nathan <nathan@irish4ever.com>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
>Subject: Re:_The_Crawler
>Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 15:22:12 -0800 (PST)
>
>
>
>--- "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >How can you possibly say that these things are absent from Mr Feist's 
>books?
> >There have been no vampires that I am aware of, but there certainly are
> >gods, and Kahooli is one of them. Also, Magicians were persecuted in some
> >places for being witches. I can not think of a particular novel off the 
>top
> >of my head, and can not look it up now being at work, but I am sure 
>others
> >on the list can vouch for this. Actually I am pretty sure it is mentioned 
>in
> >Magican when they speak of Kulgan being the court magician of Crydee.
>
>1. vampires
>   You admitted that I am right.
>2. witches
>   Now I admit that You are right. :)
>3. gods
>   You didn't understand me. I meant that it was strange that Kahooli 
>appeared himself - such a revelation never seen before in the books, 
>explicit manifestation of the god. I don't count Pug and Tomas's visit to 
>Lims-Kragma's realm. I hope that you've got the point now.
>
>Best wishes
>
>Father Nathan
>
>
>_____________________________________________________________
>Get your Free, Permanent, and Private Irish Email Today!
>---------- http://www.irish4ever.com -----------
>


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Oh, Iremembered her name, it is Arch-Indar.



>From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
>Subject: Re:_The_Crawler
>Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002 12:47:33 -0500
>
>Hey Father Nathan:
>
>After some pondering, it has come to my attention that in the Serpentwar
>Saga, Nakor (with the finacial aid of Roo) started to begin again the
>worship of the Goddess of Good (her name escapes me right now) by building 
>a
>couple of statues to her, a temple (warehouse), and attracting some
>converts. One of his female students took on the manifestation of this
>goddess in a manner that was very similar (though not exactly) to the way
>that Kahooli does through (William?).
>
>Adieu
>
>Jimmy
>
>
>>From: Nathan <nathan@irish4ever.com>
>>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
>>Subject: Re:_The_Crawler
>>Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 15:22:12 -0800 (PST)
>>
>>
>>
>>--- "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >How can you possibly say that these things are absent from Mr Feist's
>>books?
>> >There have been no vampires that I am aware of, but there certainly are
>> >gods, and Kahooli is one of them. Also, Magicians were persecuted in 
>>some
>> >places for being witches. I can not think of a particular novel off the
>>top
>> >of my head, and can not look it up now being at work, but I am sure
>>others
>> >on the list can vouch for this. Actually I am pretty sure it is 
>>mentioned
>>in
>> >Magican when they speak of Kulgan being the court magician of Crydee.
>>
>>1. vampires
>>   You admitted that I am right.
>>2. witches
>>   Now I admit that You are right. :)
>>3. gods
>>   You didn't understand me. I meant that it was strange that Kahooli
>>appeared himself - such a revelation never seen before in the books,
>>explicit manifestation of the god. I don't count Pug and Tomas's visit to
>>Lims-Kragma's realm. I hope that you've got the point now.
>>
>>Best wishes
>>
>>Father Nathan
>>
>>
>>_____________________________________________________________
>>Get your Free, Permanent, and Private Irish Email Today!
>>---------- http://www.irish4ever.com -----------
>>
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
>http://www.hotmail.com
>


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Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002 19:33:59 +0100
From: Erik Trulsson <ertr1013@student.uu.se>
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On Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 12:37:18PM -0500, James Silva wrote:
> Hi Ray:
> 
> You have goblins in your novels though. Aren't Orcs and Goblins pretty much 
> the same thing? I know in D&D they make a slight distinction, but even in 
> the Tolkein stuff, it more or less says that the terms Orc and Goblin are 
> interchangeable based on the stuff I have read (Bestiary, Lord of the 
> Rings, and the Hobbit). The only other Orc/Goblin term I have seen in 
> Tolkein that is not Entirely interchangeable would be the Urak-Hai, which 
> are essentially big Orcs/Goblins that suffer no negative effects in 
> sunlight. In D&D I guess you could call them Bugbears. But when it comes 
> down to it, they are still ust big Orcs/goblins.

In Tolkien's writings (note spelling, *ie* not *ei*) orcs and goblins
are more or less the same creatures. (In _The Hobbit_ they are called
goblins, in LoTR they are called orcs.) But orcs, unlike goblins, are
pretty much an invention of J.R.R. Tolkien without much base in real
myths.

So 'goblin' is a fairly generic term for the critters while 'orc' is
Tolkien-specific.

(What they are called in D&D is fairly irrelevant unless you are
playing that game.)

> 
> And isn't Balrog just another name for demon?

No. A balrog is a creature invented by Tolkien which can most easily be
described as a kind of fire demon.  The word 'balrog' did not exist
until Tolkien came up with it. (Unlike 'demon' which has a long history
in myth and legend.)

> 
> Am I way off the mark here? Anybody? My knowledge of Tolkein is only 
> elementary.

-- 
<Insert your favourite quote here.>
Erik Trulsson
ertr1013@student.uu.se



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002 11:54:09 -0700
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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James Silva wrote:
> 
> Hi Ray:
> 
> You have goblins in your novels though. Aren't Orcs and Goblins pretty much
> the same thing? I know in D&D they make a slight distinction, but even in
> the Tolkein stuff, it more or less says that the terms Orc and Goblin are
> interchangeable based on the stuff I have read (Bestiary, Lord of the Rings,
> and the Hobbit). The only other Orc/Goblin term I have seen in Tolkein that
> is not Entirely interchangeable would be the Urak-Hai, which are essentially
> big Orcs/Goblins that suffer no negative effects in sunlight. In D&D I guess
> you could call them Bugbears. But when it comes down to it, they are still
> ust big Orcs/goblins.

I'm not really familiar with bugbears, but I've always seen distinctions
between goblins and orcs, and between other races as well such as
hobgoblins and ogres.

I've always seen goblins as being smaller than an orc, kinda like a
hobbit to a man. I've always seen goblins as more of a clan-like race,
where they will attack in groups, never alone, but are easily frightened
off and cowardly, yet will eventually gather the courage to attack again
and in greater numbers.
Orcs, though, are bigger and alot more dangerous, but are still rather
stupid. I'm not sure I really agree with Tolkien's take on orcs though,
that they are corrupted versions of elves, but it works well.

> And isn't Balrog just another name for demon?

As somebody else said, it's a sort of "fire demon", but there are alot
of different types of demons out there :)

Craig J. Ries



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002 10:55:55 -0800
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: "Raymond E. Feist" <raymond@bittersea.com>
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At 12:37 PM -0500 1/19/02, James Silva wrote:
>Hi Ray:
>
>You have goblins in your novels though. Aren't Orcs and Goblins 
>pretty much the same thing? I know in D&D they make a slight 
>distinction, but even in the Tolkein stuff, it more or less says 
>that the terms Orc and Goblin are interchangeable based on the stuff 
>I have read (Bestiary, Lord of the Rings, and the Hobbit). The only 
>other Orc/Goblin term I have seen in Tolkein that is not Entirely 
>interchangeable would be the Urak-Hai, which are essentially big 
>Orcs/Goblins that suffer no negative effects in sunlight. In D&D I 
>guess you could call them Bugbears. But when it comes down to it, 
>they are still ust big Orcs/goblins.


"Orc" the word is Old English for "gobblin."  In Tolkein's myth, they 
were the dark powers attempt to mimic elves.

>
>And isn't Balrog just another name for demon?


No.


Best, R.E.F.

-- 


-----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away 
by stupidity.



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Subject: Re:_The_Crawler (TotG Spoiler)
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Andrew Scott" <a.sc0tt@attbi.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re:_The_Crawler (TotG Spoiler)
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002 11:07:06 -0800
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SPOILER Tear of the Gods SPOILER


.
.
.
.
Heres another god sighting for you.
At the end of TotG we discover that Hilda is a ghost of a dead goddess
taking human form.



----- Original Message -----
>From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
>To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
>Sent: Saturday, January 19, 2002 9:47 AM
>Subject: Re:_The_Crawler
>
>
>Hey Father Nathan:
>
>After some pondering, it has come to my attention that in the Serpentwar
>Saga, Nakor (with the finacial aid of Roo) started to begin again the
>worship of the Goddess of Good (her name escapes me right now) by building a
>couple of statues to her, a temple (warehouse), and attracting some
>converts. One of his female students took on the manifestation of this
>goddess in a manner that was very similar (though not exactly) to the way
>that Kahooli does through (William?).
>
>Adieu
>
>Jimmy
>
>
>>From: Nathan <nathan@irish4ever.com>
>>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
>>Subject: Re:_The_Crawler
>>Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 15:22:12 -0800 (PST)
>>
>>
>>
>>--- "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >How can you possibly say that these things are absent from Mr Feist's
>>books?
>> >There have been no vampires that I am aware of, but there certainly are
>> >gods, and Kahooli is one of them. Also, Magicians were persecuted in some
>> >places for being witches. I can not think of a particular novel off the
>>top
>> >of my head, and can not look it up now being at work, but I am sure
>>others
>> >on the list can vouch for this. Actually I am pretty sure it is mentioned
>>in
>> >Magican when they speak of Kulgan being the court magician of Crydee.
>>
>>1. vampires
>>   You admitted that I am right.
>>2. witches
>>   Now I admit that You are right. :)
>>3. gods
>>   You didn't understand me. I meant that it was strange that Kahooli
>>appeared himself - such a revelation never seen before in the books,
>>explicit manifestation of the god. I don't count Pug and Tomas's visit to
>>Lims-Kragma's realm. I hope that you've got the point now.
>>
>>Best wishes
>>
>>Father Nathan
>>
>>
>>_____________________________________________________________
>>Get your Free, Permanent, and Private Irish Email Today!
>>---------- http://www.irish4ever.com -----------
>>
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Join the world's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
>http://www.hotmail.com

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Well. I think I have fixed some of my FTP problems, am currently trying 
to upload the complete site. If you see any problems let me know

Its going to take a while to get the site updated so I am planning in a 
number of stages

First I plan on something special. This will be the new UK cover from 
Murder in LaMut. Sounds rather basic? Well the something special is that 
you will have a chance to see how the picture was created, with several 
other images of the picture taken during the creative process. Courtesy 
of Geoff Taylor

Next I want to update the members listing and Rogues Gallery. So any 
Pictures you 'orrible little lot want put on the site of your selves , 
email ASAP. File size is not a problem here, as I am on broadband. I am 
also considering a larger image for all of you viewable by selecting the 
thumbnail, let me know by email what you think

Then I need to get some recent additions to the collection uploaded and 
update the publication information

Then it is time to update the News section

any other ideas let me know I have another 150mb to fill up :)

BTW Ray any chance of an update to your image ?
Is the beard still there ?
-- 
John

john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.

Raymond E Feist Ring
http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm



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Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002 21:00:45 +0100
From: Erik Trulsson <ertr1013@student.uu.se>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: _The_Crawler (SPOILER ALERT)
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On Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 10:55:55AM -0800, Raymond E. Feist wrote:
> At 12:37 PM -0500 1/19/02, James Silva wrote:
> >Hi Ray:
> >
> >You have goblins in your novels though. Aren't Orcs and Goblins 
> >pretty much the same thing? I know in D&D they make a slight 
> >distinction, but even in the Tolkein stuff, it more or less says 
> >that the terms Orc and Goblin are interchangeable based on the stuff 
> >I have read (Bestiary, Lord of the Rings, and the Hobbit). The only 
> >other Orc/Goblin term I have seen in Tolkein that is not Entirely 
> >interchangeable would be the Urak-Hai, which are essentially big 
> >Orcs/Goblins that suffer no negative effects in sunlight. In D&D I 
> >guess you could call them Bugbears. But when it comes down to it, 
> >they are still ust big Orcs/goblins.
> 
> 
> "Orc" the word is Old English for "gobblin."  In Tolkein's myth, they 
> were the dark powers attempt to mimic elves.

Not really.  Some research with Google shows that although 'orc' is
from Old English (it appears in Beowulf in the form 'orcneas') it seems
to mean 'demon', 'monster', 'ogre' or 'giant' rather than 'goblin'.

(Goblins in folklore seem to be more a kind of faerie creature than a
demonic one.)

Exactly what kind of creature an 'orc' is in the older sources is never
defined well, just that it is some kind of evil, dangerous and probably
large creature.


There is also the word 'orca' which refers to the animal also known as
'killer whale'.

Both of these meanings appear to be derived from 'Orcus', aka Pluto aka
Hades, the ruler of the underworld in Roman mythology.


In Tolkien the orcs were not just an attempt to mimic elves but were
actually elves that had been corrupted by Morgoth. 
(At least that is one explanation J.R.R. Tolkien gave.  He did change
his mind as to the origin of orcs several times.)


-- 
<Insert your favourite quote here.>
Erik Trulsson
ertr1013@student.uu.se



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And Tolkien's Uruk-Hai seem to be half orcs (half or, half human). That 
is according to TLotR which I am just rereading.

Otherwise, most authors use the terms goblin, hobgoblin and orc 
interchangeably. For my own writting I have made them into three ethnic 
groups of the same species (simply but the larger they get the dumber 
they are, but even orcs in my world can surprise the unwarry human).

As to origins in old english or other languages always remember that 
these creatures are mythology and/or fairie tales. That is they are 
largely derived from oral tradition and therefore can be interpreted in 
many different ways. In the end every modern writer has to make up his 
own mind about what an elf, goblin, ogre or dragon should look like.

I'll have to read Beowulf someday, I wrote several papers about it in 
college, but never got to reading it (and the papers were straight A's). 
Now that I've been out of college for a few years I have started reading 
all my school books and other material. I expect one of the rare books 
that I read several times for a college class was the Hobbit (I planned 
to write the Golum for a class as a sort of parody, but then opted for 
something easier).

Marc aka Caran...

P.S.: And for some reason the term bugbear certainly does not call up 
any image for me resmbling a goblin. Then again, most of us non native 
English speakers never got confronted with most of those names as kids. 
I for one first heard of goblins in Ray's work:-)

James Silva wrote:

> Hi Ray:
>
> You have goblins in your novels though. Aren't Orcs and Goblins pretty 
> much the same thing? I know in D&D they make a slight distinction, but 
> even in the Tolkein stuff, it more or less says that the terms Orc and 
> Goblin are interchangeable based on the stuff I have read (Bestiary, 
> Lord of the Rings, and the Hobbit). The only other Orc/Goblin term I 
> have seen in Tolkein that is not Entirely interchangeable would be the 
> Urak-Hai, which are essentially big Orcs/Goblins that suffer no 
> negative effects in sunlight. In D&D I guess you could call them 
> Bugbears. But when it comes down to it, they are still ust big 
> Orcs/goblins.
>
> And isn't Balrog just another name for demon?
>
> Am I way off the mark here? Anybody? My knowledge of Tolkein is only 
> elementary.
>
> Adieu
>
> Jimmy
>
>
>> From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
>> Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
>> Subject: Re: _The_Crawler (SPOILER ALERT)
>> Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002 08:18:31 -0800
>>
>>
>> On Saturday, January 19, 2002, at 07:08 AM, James Silva wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Another good counter, because Ray most likely would not have approved
>>> the video game's story line if it did not exist in his world. And he
>>> almost certainly would have deleated it when it came to novelizing the
>>> game in Tear of the Gods. Of course, I would not want to speak for Ray.
>>> Adieu
>>>
>>
>> Vampires existed in the game.  I personally never liked them, much,
>> because they were eastern European and very tied to the Dracula mythos.
>> But the boys and girls at Pyrotechnix/7th Level put them in the game and
>> I decided to make them a slightly more generic "undead" and chalk it up
>> to the powers of Nalar.
>>
>> We also used Orcs, Balrogs, and other Tolkein stuff, which I took out of
>> the novels.
>>
>> Best, R.E.F.
>> ----
>>
>> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
>> stupidity.
>>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at 
> http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.
>
>
>




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Subject: re:a quote from rays book plz
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2002 09:17:46 +1000
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From: "ihug" <mint@ihug.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: re:a quote from rays book plz
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2002 09:17:46 +1000
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it is actually quite good, Kevin would have to be one of my favourites I
think, so intelligent (and apparantly very good looking too! lol)

----- Original Message -----
From: "Nevyn" <alien4@wasp.net.au>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Saturday, 19 January 2002 8:14 PM
Subject: re:a quote from rays book plz


> Thank you very very much! Thats juat an amazing quote isnt it?
>
> Nevyn
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "ihug" <mint@ihug.com.au>
> To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> Sent: Saturday, January 19, 2002 5:05 PM
> Subject: re:a quote from rays book plz
>
>
> > Nevyn,
> >
> > when he has Mara's neck in his hands he says (first)
> > "I see you are frightened at last"
> >
> > Then he says
> > "You call me honorless slave, and barbarian,"
> >
> > " and yet I am neither.  If you were a man you would now be dead,
> > and I would die knowing I had removed a powerful lord from my enemies'
> > ranks.
> > But where I come from, it is shameful for a man to harm a woman.
> > So I will let you go.  You can call your guards - maybe have me beaten or
> > killed.
> > But we have a saying in Zun: 'You can kill me, but you can't eat me.'
> > Remember this, when you watch me die as I hang from a tree.
> > No matter what you do to my body, my soul and heart are free.
> > Remember that I allowed you to kill me.  I permitted you to live because
> my
> > honor required it.
> > >From this moment forward, your every breath is a slave's gift."
> >
> > "My gift"
> >
> > hope this is what you were after :)  The scene is on pages 97 and 98 of
> the
> > book.
> >
> > Mint
> >
>
>



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What about four types: Multi Lingual, Bi Lingual, Mono Lingual and American?

Americans can't even speak english properly!

:-P

BJS
England


-----Original Message-----
>From: James Silva [mailto:kiehtan@hotmail.com]
>Sent: 17 January 2002 17:39
>To: FEISTFANS-L
>Subject: Re: OT: Henry Rollins (Was Re: Jimmy The Hand)
>
>
>They say there are three types of people, Multi Lingual, Bi Lingual, and
>American. I must confess to being America. So when it comes to any language
>other than English, I must bow my head in defferance.
>


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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002 17:32:38 -0700
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT: Henry Rollins (Was Re: Jimmy The Hand)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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lists@bjs.org.uk wrote:
> 
> Americans can't even speak english properly!

Oh don't start this utter BS about which part of the world speaks
"proper" English.

English, atleast as a written language, sucks. :)

Craig J. Ries



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From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: OT: Henry Rollins (Was Re: Jimmy The Hand)
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002 22:38:16 -0500
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*** EOOH ***
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From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: OT: Henry Rollins (Was Re: Jimmy The Hand)
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002 22:38:16 -0500
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I like to look at American English the same way I look at autombobile 
manufacturing. The Japanese, after WWII, came over and saw how we Americans 
did it with our effivent assembly lines and stuff, then went back to Japan, 
copied our efficency, and added quality improvements.

Americans did that with English!

:)~

Adieu

Jimmy


>From: <lists@bjs.org.uk>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: "'FEISTFANS-L'" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
>Subject: RE: OT: Henry Rollins (Was Re: Jimmy The Hand)
>Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2002 00:32:31 -0000
>
>
>What about four types: Multi Lingual, Bi Lingual, Mono Lingual and 
>American?
>
>Americans can't even speak english properly!
>
>:-P
>
>BJS
>England
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: James Silva [mailto:kiehtan@hotmail.com]
>Sent: 17 January 2002 17:39
>To: FEISTFANS-L
>Subject: Re: OT: Henry Rollins (Was Re: Jimmy The Hand)
>
>
>They say there are three types of people, Multi Lingual, Bi Lingual, and
>American. I must confess to being America. So when it comes to any language
>other than English, I must bow my head in defferance.
>




Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary 
Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
   -- Benjamin Franklin



_________________________________________________________________
Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002 19:41:14 -0800
From: Carl Dershem <dershem@cox.net>
Organization: Project Selene
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT: Henry Rollins (Was Re: Jimmy The Hand)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

"Craig J. Ries" wrote:
> 
> lists@bjs.org.uk wrote:
> >
> > Americans can't even speak english properly!
> 
> Oh don't start this utter BS about which part of the world speaks
> "proper" English.
> 
> English, atleast as a written language, sucks. :)
> 
> Craig J. Ries

Possibly, but I wouldn't trade the flexibility, subtlety and history of
it for any other language.

cd
-- 
Death to all Absolutists!



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*** EOOH ***
From: "Alex Loke" <nerf@alphalink.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT: Henry Rollins (Was Re: Jimmy The Hand)
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2002 15:35:16 +1100
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

> I like to look at American English the same way I look at autombobile
> manufacturing. The Japanese, after WWII, came over and saw how we Americans
> did it with our effivent assembly lines and stuff, then went back to Japan,
> copied our efficency, and added quality improvements.
>
> Americans did that with English!

Except the Japanese didn't cut nerely that many corners =) I like American
English. It's easier to say.

Regards,

Alex Loke
nerf@alphalink.com.au

<INSERT WITTY LINE HERE>



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References: <002801c1a149$f3322980$0c85a8c0@bjs_nt1.bjs.org.uk> <3C4A1026.2A970B01@yifan.net> <3C4A3C5A.3ABC95DA@cox.net>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002 22:48:05 -0700
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT: Henry Rollins (Was Re: Jimmy The Hand)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Carl Dershem wrote:
> 
> Possibly, but I wouldn't trade the flexibility, subtlety and history of
> it for any other language.

Perhaps. Having studied Russian, I much appreciate the fact that the
written forms (Russian is Cyrillic, which was "established" by a pair of
Latin speakers, iirc) of most European languages outside of English are
rather phonetic :)

I've got friends in many countries, but ever time I read something that
they spell phonetically it makes me cringe... not because they spelled
it wrong in English (atleast they got it logically & phonetically
correct :), but because English is so fragged :)

Craig J. Ries



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Subject: Re: OT: Henry Rollins (Was Re: Jimmy The Hand)
References: <002801c1a149$f3322980$0c85a8c0@bjs_nt1.bjs.org.uk> <3C4A1026.2A970B01@yifan.net> <3C4A3C5A.3ABC95DA@cox.net> <3C4A5A15.F875B54B@yifan.net>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002 22:03:35 -0800
From: Carl Dershem <dershem@cox.net>
Organization: Project Selene
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT: Henry Rollins (Was Re: Jimmy The Hand)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

"Craig J. Ries" wrote:
> 
> Carl Dershem wrote:
> >
> > Possibly, but I wouldn't trade the flexibility, subtlety and history of
> > it for any other language.
> 
> Perhaps. Having studied Russian, I much appreciate the fact that the
> written forms (Russian is Cyrillic, which was "established" by a pair of
> Latin speakers, iirc) of most European languages outside of English are
> rather phonetic :)
> 
> I've got friends in many countries, but ever time I read something that
> they spell phonetically it makes me cringe... not because they spelled
> it wrong in English (atleast they got it logically & phonetically
> correct :), but because English is so fragged :)
> 
> Craig J. Ries

Fragged... an interesting word.  English is a language that borrows
extensively, which makes it all but impossible to have rigid rules or
grammar.  or spelling.  But its very flexibility makes it possible to
use nuances that are impossible with any other language.

In what other language could we even say "automobile" or "tacos and
sushi"?

cd
-- 
Death to all Absolutists!



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Thread-Topic: Book Signing
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From: "Randy Wallenhorst" <Randy@mail2myplane.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Book Signing
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2002 04:57:25 -0800
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Thread-Topic: Book Signing
From: "Randy Wallenhorst" <Randy@mail2myplane.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Book Signing
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2002 04:57:25 -0800
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Greetings everyone;

I'm new to this list but I've been a huge fan of Raymond Feist for over
a dozen years and I have two questions for everyone here.

1. Does anyone know of a web-site where Mr. Feist has his book signing
engagements listed? I have all of his works except the Rift War Saga in
hardcover and I would love to get one or (if possible) several of them
signed.

2. I'm just curious to learn if others feel as I do and would like to
see a twentieth or parhaps silver anniversary edition of the Rift War
Saga re-released in hardcover. I have always wanted to get my hands on
that set in HC and I realize that I could buy used HC books from places
like E-bay but I'm reluctant to do so. 

Thanks in advance for your replies.

Randy
_______________________________________________________________
Get the FREE email that has everyone talking at
http://www.mail2world.com

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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002 23:32:22 +0000
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It has been suggested I host a section called 'Feist collections around 
the world'
This will likely be anonymous but it doesn't have to be. If you think 
its an interesting idea send me a picture of you collection. You can be 
in it if you want :)
-- 
John

john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.

Raymond E Feist Ring
http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm



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Subject: Sweden Magician
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Sweden id due for Magician to be released shortly . It will be 3 parts 
with all covers by Geoff Taylor. Unfortunately the editor. My contact 
has moved on to other interests so at present I am not able to obtain 
further info
-- 
John

john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.

Raymond E Feist Ring
http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm



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*** EOOH ***
From: "Mark Chaloner" <markchaloner@btinternet.com>
To: "feistfans-l" <feistfans-l@cornell.edu>
Subject: Changing from digest to individual - How?
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2002 18:04:10 -0000
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Hi all - longtime no hear from <grins>

I'm currently subscribed to receive the daily gigest - How do I go about
changing that back to receiving individual messages, as I'd like to become
more active again (so to speak).

Obviously, I'd apreciate it if you could reply off-list.

Many thanks.

---
mark ;-)
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
'A man who sees a god in his master, scarcely hopes for paradise'
- Marquis de Custine
markchaloner@btinternet.com



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*** EOOH ***
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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: John <john@crydee.com>
Subject: Re: Book Signing
User-Agent: Turnpike/6.01-Beta-2-U (<x5sqXV$6+zj$GDJXMMY4QwhIW3>)
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Randy Wallenhorst <Randy@mail2myplane.com> writes
>Greetings everyone;
>I'm new to this list but I've been a huge fan of Raymond Feist for over a
>dozen years and I have two questions for everyone here.
Stop eating the donuts then <G>
>
>1. Does anyone know of a web-site where Mr. Feist has his book signing
>engagements listed?
Nope but you can try his publishers, and there is a site crydee.com or 
something like that :) It does show upcoming signings when it up to date 
and working. It appears to be down at the moment :(


>I have all of his works except the Rift War Saga in
>hardcover and I would love to get one or (if possible) several of them
>signed.
>
>2. I'm just curious to learn if others feel as I do and would like to see a
>twentieth or parhaps silver anniversary edition of the Rift War Saga
>re-released in hardcover.
Watch this space for Magician in hardback from Harper Collins towards 
the end of the year. The other 2 are apparently not viable

>I have always wanted to get my hands on that
>set in HC and I realize that I could buy used HC books from places like
>E-bay but I'm reluctant to do so.
Why ? a useful resource

>Thanks in advance for your replies.
>Randy

-- 
John

john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.

Raymond E Feist Ring
http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm



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From: "Syrion Hall of Worlds" <how_news@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Changing from digest to individual - How?
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2002 20:06:11 +0000
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 20 Jan 2002 20:06:11.0331 (UTC) FILETIME=[E7EA7D30:01C1A1ED]
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Send email to listproc@cornell.edu with the words "SET FEISTFANS-L MAIL ACK" 
in the body with no subject..

Greetings,

Tjeerd

>From: "Mark Chaloner" <markchaloner@btinternet.com>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: "feistfans-l" <feistfans-l@cornell.edu>
>Subject: Changing from digest to individual - How?
>Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2002 18:04:10 -0000
>
>Hi all - longtime no hear from <grins>
>
>I'm currently subscribed to receive the daily gigest - How do I go about
>changing that back to receiving individual messages, as I'd like to become
>more active again (so to speak).
>
>Obviously, I'd apreciate it if you could reply off-list.
>
>Many thanks.
>
>---
>mark ;-)
>- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>'A man who sees a god in his master, scarcely hopes for paradise'
>- Marquis de Custine
>markchaloner@btinternet.com
>




Tjeerd "Syrion" van Sas
http://www.hallofworlds.net


_________________________________________________________________
MSN Foto's is de eenvoudigste manier om je foto's te delen en af te drukken: 
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From: Andrea J Chee <andrea@bloodaxe.com>
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Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 02:32:01 +0000
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Andrea J Chee <andrea@bloodaxe.com>
Subject: Re: OT: Henry Rollins (Was Re: Jimmy The Hand)
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In article <F15YDpyuqr60g1XbIv10000600a@hotmail.com>, James Silva
<kiehtan@hotmail.com> writes
>I like to look at American English the same way I look at autombobile 
>manufacturing. The Japanese, after WWII, came over and saw how we Americans 
>did it with our effivent assembly lines and stuff, then went back to Japan, 
>copied our efficency, and added quality improvements.

Not exactly. Many of the spellings thought of as American were
originally from the UK. There are just as many archaic words,
pronunciations and spellings still used in US English that have died out
or changed in the UK as those which stayed the same in the UK and
changed in the US.

Neither form of English is what it originally was - the language began
to diverge from the moment it arrived in the new world, and both
branches have been changing ever since. It first went to the new world
in the early 17th century and US English was already considered a
separate entity by the 18th century, so you can imagine how much both
branches have changed over a few hundred years. For all that time both
variations have been losing some words, gaining others, and changing the
spelling, usage or pronunciation of still more, until they're both very
different from 17th century English and just as different from each
other. 

Considering the nature of the language, change was inevitable, so
there's not much point pretending that one is the original language and
the other a development from it. They're just two completely separate
branches.

- ANDREA

-- 
  Get PAID for the emails you already send and receive! 
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From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
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Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 12:43:59 +1000 (GMT+1000)
From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
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> If I were Nathan, I would argue that Tear of the Gods doesn't really count
> since it is a novelization of the Video game.
> However, to counter, I would wager that there WERE vampires in the Midkemia
> RPG, and since THAT is the world Ray's books are based on, then they do
> exist in Ray's world. They simply hadn't made it into the novels.
> Adieu
> Jimmy


Actually, I think somewhere in Magician, it is mentioned that vampires
exist, its a very vague reference (IIRC). Possibly during the Mac Mordain
Cadal mine sequence, when the characters discuss wraiths.


I could be wrong.....



> >
> >How can you possibly say that these things are absent from Mr Feist's
> >books?
> >There have been no vampires that I am aware of...-James Silva
> >S
> >P
> >O
> >I
> >L
> >E
> >R
> >S
> >P
> >A
> >C
> >E
> >
> >Actually there are vampires inTotG.
> >
> >                              Kev
> >Caution:Trust Me
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.
>
>

Thanks
Darragh
-=-=
www.iamtheporkfireman.com
[Email]: s356179@student.uq.edu.au [ICQ]: 114283262



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From: "Mic Olafson" <tbird7775@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re: Book Signing
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I have bought several Books off ebay and am very pleased with all of them. 
Just yesterday i bought A Darkness At Sethanon HC/DJ Book club edtion first 
edition for 32.00 i was very happy



>From: "Randy Wallenhorst" <Randy@mail2myplane.com>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
>Subject: Book Signing
>Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2002 04:57:25 -0800
>
>Greetings everyone;
>
>I'm new to this list but I've been a huge fan of Raymond Feist for over
>a dozen years and I have two questions for everyone here.
>
>1. Does anyone know of a web-site where Mr. Feist has his book signing
>engagements listed? I have all of his works except the Rift War Saga in
>hardcover and I would love to get one or (if possible) several of them
>signed.
>
>2. I'm just curious to learn if others feel as I do and would like to
>see a twentieth or parhaps silver anniversary edition of the Rift War
>Saga re-released in hardcover. I have always wanted to get my hands on
>that set in HC and I realize that I could buy used HC books from places
>like E-bay but I'm reluctant to do so.
>
>Thanks in advance for your replies.
>
>Randy
>_______________________________________________________________
>Get the FREE email that has everyone talking at
>http://www.mail2world.com




_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com



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From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
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At 12:32 AM 1/20/02 +0000, lists@bjs.org.uk wrote:

>What about four types: Multi Lingual, Bi Lingual, Mono Lingual and American?
>
>Americans can't even speak english properly!
>
>:-P
>
>BJS
>England

Blanket generalities are you ;->

That said.  Last night on the BBC, a woman (home counties, I think.
Our being able to pick out where someone is from based on accent is 
limited to Northern accents...and Swindon ;->) was being interviewed
after having knee replacement surgery in Lille (courtesy of the
NHS)

voiceover:  "Language hasn't been a problem"
interviewee:  "No!  They all speak good English..."

Collective cringe from everyone in the house.  "'They speak
English /well/', dammit."

rip
American Expat in Oxon, Uk.  Tri-lingual (en/de/fr/(and C and PERL
and a /bunch/ of others ;->), married to a German who is quinta-
lingual, (de/en/ru/ua*/fr), together bringing up a bi-lingual son 
(de/en).
*ua = Ukrainian.



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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT: Henry Rollins (Was Re: Jimmy The Hand)
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 09:41:38 +0000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

"Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
> Perhaps. Having studied Russian, I much appreciate the fact that the
> written forms (Russian is Cyrillic, which was "established" by a pair of
> Latin speakers, iirc) of most European languages outside of English are
> rather phonetic :)

Most European languages other than English have had fairly systematic
spelling reforms, whereas (as I understand it) English hasn't.  Or at
least none that have really stuck.

> I've got friends in many countries, but ever time I read something that
> they spell phonetically it makes me cringe... not because they spelled
> it wrong in English (atleast they got it logically & phonetically
> correct :), but because English is so fragged :)

English is a cargo-cult language, written by the world's linguistic
pack rats.  And we like it that way.  Writing anything other than the
simplest missive is simultaneously wallowing in the history of the
tongue...

Donal.
-- 
Donal K. Fellows, Department of Computer Science, University of Manchester, UK.
(work) fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk     Tel: +44-161-275-6137  (preferred email addr.)
(home) donal@ugglan.demon.co.uk  Tel: +44-1274-401017   Mobile: +44-7957-298955
http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~fellowsd/  (Don't quote my .sig; I've seen it before!)



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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: OT: Henry Rollins (Was Re: Jimmy The Hand)
In-Reply-To: <E16SaxO-0004F9-00@athene>
References: <3C4A5A15.F875B54B@yifan.net>
 <002801c1a149$f3322980$0c85a8c0@bjs_nt1.bjs.org.uk>
 <3C4A1026.2A970B01@yifan.net>
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Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 09:53:32 +0000
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: OT: Henry Rollins (Was Re: Jimmy The Hand)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

At 09:41 AM 1/21/02 +0000, Donal K. Fellows wrote:
> Writing anything other than the
>simplest missive is simultaneously wallowing in the history of the
>tongue...

Word.

rip



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From: "James Culshaw" <culshaja@hotmail.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020121092135.00f05470@mail.swindon.wrsec.fr>
Subject: Re: OT language use around the house
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 10:59:15 -0000
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From: "James Culshaw" <culshaja@hotmail.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT language use around the house
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 10:59:15 -0000
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Hey, what have you got against Swindon?

Only joking. I know what you mean. When I first moved to Swindon I noticed
the 'unique' accent. Luckily, don't notice it as much now ;-)

James :-)
___________________________________________________________
___________________________________________________________

My mind is the centre of the universe and you are all but dreams!

Please check out the following sites:

http://www.active-data-solutions.co.uk
http://www.unholycrusade.co.uk

----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Williamson" <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Monday, January 21, 2002 9:31 AM
Subject: OT language use around the house


> At 12:32 AM 1/20/02 +0000, lists@bjs.org.uk wrote:
>
> >What about four types: Multi Lingual, Bi Lingual, Mono Lingual and American?
> >
> >Americans can't even speak english properly!
> >
> >:-P
> >
> >BJS
> >England
>
> Blanket generalities are you ;->
>
> That said.  Last night on the BBC, a woman (home counties, I think.
> Our being able to pick out where someone is from based on accent is
> limited to Northern accents...and Swindon ;->) was being interviewed
> after having knee replacement surgery in Lille (courtesy of the
> NHS)
>
> voiceover:  "Language hasn't been a problem"
> interviewee:  "No!  They all speak good English..."
>
> Collective cringe from everyone in the house.  "'They speak
> English /well/', dammit."
>
> rip
> American Expat in Oxon, Uk.  Tri-lingual (en/de/fr/(and C and PERL
> and a /bunch/ of others ;->), married to a German who is quinta-
> lingual, (de/en/ru/ua*/fr), together bringing up a bi-lingual son
> (de/en).
> *ua = Ukrainian.
>
>



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From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT: Henry Rollins (Was Re: Jimmy The Hand)
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 09:18:39 -0500
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From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT: Henry Rollins (Was Re: Jimmy The Hand)
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 09:18:39 -0500
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Thanks for the history lesson. You do realize we were joking though?


>From: Andrea J Chee <andrea@bloodaxe.com>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
>Subject: Re: OT: Henry Rollins (Was Re: Jimmy The Hand)
>Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 02:32:01 +0000
>
>In article <F15YDpyuqr60g1XbIv10000600a@hotmail.com>, James Silva
><kiehtan@hotmail.com> writes
> >I like to look at American English the same way I look at autombobile
> >manufacturing. The Japanese, after WWII, came over and saw how we 
>Americans
> >did it with our effivent assembly lines and stuff, then went back to 
>Japan,
> >copied our efficency, and added quality improvements.
>
>Not exactly. Many of the spellings thought of as American were
>originally from the UK. There are just as many archaic words,
>pronunciations and spellings still used in US English that have died out
>or changed in the UK as those which stayed the same in the UK and
>changed in the US.
>
>Neither form of English is what it originally was - the language began
>to diverge from the moment it arrived in the new world, and both
>branches have been changing ever since. It first went to the new world
>in the early 17th century and US English was already considered a
>separate entity by the 18th century, so you can imagine how much both
>branches have changed over a few hundred years. For all that time both
>variations have been losing some words, gaining others, and changing the
>spelling, usage or pronunciation of still more, until they're both very
>different from 17th century English and just as different from each
>other.
>
>Considering the nature of the language, change was inevitable, so
>there's not much point pretending that one is the original language and
>the other a development from it. They're just two completely separate
>branches.
>
>- ANDREA
>
>--
>   Get PAID for the emails you already send and receive!
>http://www.mailround.com/  Referrer: andrea@bloodaxe.com
>^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^
>                   ANDROMEDA - Internet Goddess
><andrea@bloodaxe.com>                    http://www.bloodaxe.com/
>Bloodaxe's History Links:   http://www.geocities.com/Athens/5055/
>The Loony Bin Archive:               http://loonies.net800.co.uk/
>


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.



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From: "Michael Gibson" <mike@gibbyco.freeserve.co.uk>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: OT language use around the house
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 21:58:53 -0000
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From: "Michael Gibson" <mike@gibbyco.freeserve.co.uk>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: OT language use around the house
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 21:58:53 -0000
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

> >What about four types: Multi Lingual, Bi Lingual, Mono Lingual and American?
> >
> >Americans can't even speak english properly!
> >
> >:-P
> >
> >BJS
> >England
>
> Blanket generalities are you ;->
>
> That said.  Last night on the BBC, a woman (home counties, I think.
> Our being able to pick out where someone is from based on accent is
> limited to Northern accents...and Swindon ;->

Indeed - they need to wash their collective "years" out. ;)

>) was being interviewed
> after having knee replacement surgery in Lille (courtesy of the
> NHS)
>
> voiceover:  "Language hasn't been a problem"
> interviewee:  "No!  They all speak good English..."
>
> Collective cringe from everyone in the house.  "'They speak
> English /well/', dammit."
>
> rip
> American Expat in Oxon, Uk.  Tri-lingual (en/de/fr/(and C and PERL
> and a /bunch/ of others ;->), married to a German who is quinta-
> lingual, (de/en/ru/ua*/fr), together bringing up a bi-lingual son
> (de/en).
> *ua = Ukrainian.

I know one and a third and a bit (the third being German, the bit being French).
And I'm cursing* the differences between perl and matlab.

*Mainly in English but in some French now, thanks to some of the recent posts.

Mike,
Gibfish of the West

"Better to light a candle than to curse the darkness."
Confucius



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*** EOOH ***
From: RavusLupus@aol.com
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 17:46:36 EST
Subject: A congrats (for you all) A moan (at the world) and a request (for the boss)
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Content-Language: en

Hello! Iâ€™m new to this place and to the world of Midkemia. I was looking for 
information sites on Feistâ€™s books and this one, was, with out doubt the 
best. I was also looking for a message board about Feistâ€™s books, but I 
couldnâ€™t find any! Not one, this may be more down to the useless way in which 
Ezboard organizes the boards rather than a lack of one. However I spent days 
looking through the mess with out luck, so, I decided to make my own, (cant 
you just tell the requests coming up?) you see, I mentioned Ezboards 
uselessness in searching for sites on any of the topics you may want to find, 
so, the chances of anyone ever finding my board is very little, now if there 
was already a boardI could post the url on then I would, (also if there was 1 
I wouldnâ€™t need to make my 1 in the first place) my requests are: 
1:If any one knows of a message board already in existence please tell me 
where. 
2: If not could I post the url of my board here please? 
3: could I put crydee.com in my links section?
 
Thanx million.
 
Jaszon

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From: wilsonm80@netscape.net (Maximilian Wilson)
To: feistfans-l@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Jimmy at Sarth
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 18:12:13 -0500
From: wilsonm80@netscape.net (Maximilian Wilson)
To: feistfans-l@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Jimmy at Sarth
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Quick question:

In _Shards_of_a_Broken_Crown_, Duke Arutha is able to find a secret
entrance into the abbey at Sarth based on what he'd been told of his
father's exploits as a boy. I also seem to vaguely recall reading
about this. But I'm only 80 pages from the end of
_Darkness_At_Sethanon_, and it doesn't look like Jimmy's going
anywhere near there. I searched the Web and Usenet for clues, but had
no luck. Is this described in any of the books? Or am I misleading
myself?

--Wilson
-- 

I learned that it is the weak who are cruel
And that gentleness is only to be expected from the strong.
  --Leo Rosten



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From: Erik Trulsson <ertr1013@student.uu.se>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Jimmy at Sarth
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 01:34:06 +0100
From: Erik Trulsson <ertr1013@student.uu.se>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Jimmy at Sarth
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On Mon, Jan 21, 2002 at 06:12:13PM -0500, Maximilian Wilson wrote:
> Quick question:
> 
> In _Shards_of_a_Broken_Crown_, Duke Arutha is able to find a secret
> entrance into the abbey at Sarth based on what he'd been told of his
> father's exploits as a boy. I also seem to vaguely recall reading
> about this. But I'm only 80 pages from the end of
> _Darkness_At_Sethanon_, and it doesn't look like Jimmy's going
> anywhere near there. I searched the Web and Usenet for clues, but had
> no luck. Is this described in any of the books? Or am I misleading
> myself?

Jimmy visits the abbey at Sarth in _Silverthorn_. Almost exactly
in the middle of the book if you wish to check for yourself.




-- 
<Insert your favourite quote here.>
Erik Trulsson
ertr1013@student.uu.se



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Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 17:25:07 +0000
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From: Andrea J Chee <andrea@bloodaxe.com>
Subject: Re: OT: Henry Rollins (Was Re: Jimmy The Hand)
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 17:25:07 +0000
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Andrea J Chee <andrea@bloodaxe.com>
Subject: Re: OT: Henry Rollins (Was Re: Jimmy The Hand)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

In article <F1008kIN4MmXKCnzNwR00001fc7@hotmail.com>, James Silva
<kiehtan@hotmail.com> writes
>Thanks for the history lesson. You do realize we were joking though?

Of course, but if it prevents recurrences of silly arguments based on
incorrect assumptions, I'm happy to pontificate all day!

- ANDREA

-- 
  Get PAID for the emails you already send and receive! 
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 18:33:44 -0700
From: Ben Nagy <bnagy@powersurfr.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Jimmy at Sarth
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Actually, 

They go up the gate in SilverThorn. Jimmy finds out about the secret
entrance during the game "Betrayal at Krondor". It is also written into
the book. 

Cheers

Ben

Erik Trulsson wrote:
> 
> On Mon, Jan 21, 2002 at 06:12:13PM -0500, Maximilian Wilson wrote:
> > Quick question:
> >
> > In _Shards_of_a_Broken_Crown_, Duke Arutha is able to find a secret
> > entrance into the abbey at Sarth based on what he'd been told of his
> > father's exploits as a boy. I also seem to vaguely recall reading
> > about this. But I'm only 80 pages from the end of
> > _Darkness_At_Sethanon_, and it doesn't look like Jimmy's going
> > anywhere near there. I searched the Web and Usenet for clues, but had
> > no luck. Is this described in any of the books? Or am I misleading
> > myself?
> 
> Jimmy visits the abbey at Sarth in _Silverthorn_. Almost exactly
> in the middle of the book if you wish to check for yourself.
> 
> --
> <Insert your favourite quote here.>
> Erik Trulsson
> ertr1013@student.uu.se

-- 
___________________________________________________________ 

Benjamin Nagy               E-Mail:    bnagy@powersurfr.com 
Technical Analyst           E-Mail:   ben.nagy@matrikon.com
Network Consultant          Phone:    (780)448-1010 ext4646 
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______ http://www.matrikon.com/services/networking/ _______



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Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 22:22:22 EST
Subject: Serpentwar Legacy?
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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*** EOOH ***
From: Gkhd11a@aol.com
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 22:22:22 EST
Subject: Serpentwar Legacy?
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

       I always thought it would be great if they made a Serpentwar legacy, 
the same way they made a game out what happend after the Riftwar.  Instead of 
James and Locklear, they would use Eric and Roo, and instead of a renagade 
Mordehel, a renegade Sauur.  Instead of Patrus and Owen, That magican that 
helped out Eric pass messages during the invasion.  Humz, maybe I should make 
a pen and paper RPG out of that...  Ray- as I'm aware there would be nothing 
wronge with me making something and playing it with my freinds as long as it 
did not get on the internet right?  Not that you could stop me if you wanted 
to, but if I did have your aproval, then I could show it to you and perhaps 
you will like it, and of course I would let you have full copyright over any 
of it, I don't care about the money.  You never know...

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From: "Syrion Hall of Worlds" <how_news@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: A congrats (for you all) A moan (at the world) and a request (for the boss)
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From: "Syrion Hall of Worlds" <how_news@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: A congrats (for you all) A moan (at the world) and a request (for the boss)
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 04:45:26 +0000
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Welcome to the list! :D

>1:If any one knows of a message board already in existence please tell me 
>where.

At the Hall Of Worlds we have a Feist Message Board:
http://www.hallofworlds.net/feist/cgi-bin/new_forum/ikonboard.cgi

Not too many topics at the moment, since our last messageboard died 
recently. :(

>2: If not could I post the url of my board here please?

I guess it's possible. If not you'll hear it soon.

>3: could I put crydee.com in my links section?

John of Crydee.com is also a member of this list, I'll guess he will answer 
that soon. :)

>Thanx million.

No problem.

Greetings,

Tjeerd "Syrion" van Sas
http://www.hallofworlds.net


_________________________________________________________________
MSN Foto's is de eenvoudigste manier om je foto's te delen en af te drukken: 
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Subject: Re: A congrats (for you all) A moan (at the world) and a request (for the boss)
References: <124.a856c21.297df44c@aol.com>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 06:51:41 +0000
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: John <john@crydee.com>
Subject: Re: A congrats (for you all) A moan (at the world) and a request (for the boss)
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RavusLupus@aol.com writes
>Hello! I’m new to this place and to the world of Midkemia. I was looking for
>information sites on Feist’s books and this one, was, with out doubt the
>best. I was also looking for a message board about Feist’s books, but I
>couldn’t find any! Not one, this may be more down to the useless way in
>which Ezboard organizes the boards rather than a lack of one. However I
>spent days looking through the mess with out luck, so, I decided to make
>my own, (cant you just tell the requests coming up?) you see, I mentioned
>Ezboards uselessness in searching for sites on any of the topics you may
>want to find, so, the chances of anyone ever finding my board is very little,
>now if there was already a boardI could post the url on then I would, (also if
>there was 1 I wouldn’t need to make my 1 in the first place) my requests
>are:
>1:If any one knows of a message board already in existence please tell
>me where.
>2: If not could I post the url of my board here please?
>3: could I put crydee.com in my links section?
>
>Thanx million.
>
>Jaszon

There are a few out there though they seem to be little used, but then 
again who really needs them when you have this mailing list and the 
newsgroup. I have facilities where I could put one on my site if it were 
needed but feel it better to direct interested parties to the list
best
-- 
John

john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.

Raymond E Feist Ring
http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm



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Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 01:13:20 -0800
Subject: Re: Serpentwar Legacy?
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Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 01:13:20 -0800
Subject: Re: Serpentwar Legacy?
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Monday, January 21, 2002, at 07:22 PM, Gkhd11a@aol.com wrote:

>      I always thought it would be great if they made a Serpentwar 
> legacy, the same way they made a game out what happend after the 
> Riftwar.  Instead of James and Locklear, they would use Eric and Roo, 
> and instead of a renagade Mordehel, a renegade Sauur.  Instead of 
> Patrus and Owen, That magican that helped out Eric pass messages during 
> the invasion.  Humz, maybe I should make a pen and paper RPG out of 
> that...  Ray- as I'm aware there would be nothing wronge with me making 
> something and playing it with my freinds as long as it did not get on 
> the internet right?  Not that you could stop me if you wanted to, but 
> if I did have your aproval, then I could show it to you and perhaps you 
> will like it, and of course I would let you have full copyright over 
> any of it, I don't care about the money.  You never know...
>
>
>

You can create a campaign for your own personal use, certainly.

As for putting one on the internet, that is not permitted.  And trust 
me, unless you've got better lawyers than I do, I could stop you if you 
tried.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.

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Subject: Midkemia Press
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Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 15:41:49 +0200
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Kenneth Jones <killkenny@thos.co.za>
Subject: Midkemia Press
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Hi Everyone.

I am going to sound like a real moron to most of you but here goes.

First off with all the questions.

What are the games from Midkemia Press?
How do you play them?
Where can I get them?

And the last one, I have heard people talking about a Internet Game. How 
does this work? And are there any that I can try out that anyone can recomend?

Thanks a lot for your time and help.

Regards,
Kenneth Jones



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From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
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What is wrong with being silly? There can never be enough silliness in life! 
:)

Adieu

Jimmy

>From: Andrea J Chee <andrea@bloodaxe.com>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
>Subject: Re: OT: Henry Rollins (Was Re: Jimmy The Hand)
>Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 17:25:07 +0000
>
>In article <F1008kIN4MmXKCnzNwR00001fc7@hotmail.com>, James Silva
><kiehtan@hotmail.com> writes
> >Thanks for the history lesson. You do realize we were joking though?
>
>Of course, but if it prevents recurrences of silly arguments based on
>incorrect assumptions, I'm happy to pontificate all day!
>
>- ANDREA
>
>--
>   Get PAID for the emails you already send and receive!
>http://www.mailround.com/  Referrer: andrea@bloodaxe.com
>^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^
>                   ANDROMEDA - Internet Goddess
><andrea@bloodaxe.com>                    http://www.bloodaxe.com/
>Bloodaxe's History Links:   http://www.geocities.com/Athens/5055/
>The Loony Bin Archive:               http://loonies.net800.co.uk/
>


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.



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Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 08:59:20 -0500
Subject: Re: OT: Henry Rollins (Was Re: Jimmy The Hand)
From: Bob Montgomery <dante@kingcon.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
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Well put :D

> From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
> Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 08:47:14 -0500
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
> Subject: Re: OT: Henry Rollins (Was Re: Jimmy The Hand)
> 
> 
> 
> What is wrong with being silly? There can never be enough silliness in life!
> :)
> 
> Adieu
> 
> Jimmy



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From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
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Subject: The gods and worship
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Subject: The gods and worship
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Dear Ray, you mentioned some time ago that the elves did not worship any 
gods, but rather they revered nature, and did not really understand why 
other races worshipped gods.

So, my question to you is, do the Dwarves worship gods, or rever nature in a 
way similar to elves?

And, if they worship gods, are they the same as the human gods, eg, Tith, 
Kahooli, etc, or do they have their own pantheon?

Lastly, if they worship there own pantheon, I'm not looking fo specific gods 
as you and Steve may not ever have created them, just curious as to whether 
they have a pntheon or not or not.

Oh, and one more thing, are goblins and trolls native to Midkemia, or did 
they migrate over like the humans and dwarves?



Thanks in advance.

Jimmy





_________________________________________________________________
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From: wilsonm80@netscape.net (Maximilian Wilson)
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: "Good" English?
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Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 10:16:51 -0500
From: wilsonm80@netscape.net (Maximilian Wilson)
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: "Good" English?
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>That said.  Last night on the BBC, a woman (home counties, I think.
>Our being able to pick out where someone is from based on accent is 
>limited to Northern accents...and Swindon ;->) was being interviewed
>after having knee replacement surgery in Lille (courtesy of the
>NHS)
>
>voiceover:  "Language hasn't been a problem"
>interviewee:  "No!  They all speak good English..."
>
>Collective cringe from everyone in the house.  "'They speak
>English /well/', dammit."

Seems perfectly legitimate to me. They speak <good English>. Adjective, not adverb. She cooks <good food>.

Now, if she'd said, "They all speak English good," *then* I'd cringe too. And so would she, most probably.

--Wilson
-- 
I learned that it is the weak who are cruel
And that gentleness is only to be expected from the strong.
  --Leo Rosten



__________________________________________________________________
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From: wilsonm80@netscape.net (Maximilian Wilson)
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Subject: Re: Jimmy at Sarth
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Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 10:25:57 -0500
From: wilsonm80@netscape.net (Maximilian Wilson)
To: Feistfans-l@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Jimmy at Sarth
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Erik wrote:
>Jimmy visits the abbey at Sarth in _Silverthorn_. Almost exactly
>in the middle of the book if you wish to check for yourself.

(Sorry about the formatting on the last one. I keep forgetting the
80-character columns.)

Yes, but he doesn't sneak into a back entrance. They're being chased
by Black Slayers, and they make a stand at the front gate where Brother
Dominic intervenes to drive off the Black Slayers. They go inside, mess
around for a bit, beat off some attackers from Murmandamus, and leave.
Arutha and co. head off to Elvandar, and they put Jimmy on a ship for
Krondor which he sneaks off of to follow them. (ObEnglish: should be
"off of which he sneaks," though that grammatical rule is probably
ready to expire in AmeriEnglish.)

So if Jimmy does find the secret entrance later used by Arutha, either
I've overlooked it or it's somewhere else. And I'm pretty sure he found
it from the outside of the mountain, not the inside, which wouldn't take
much thieving skill.

--Wilson

-- 
I learned that it is the weak who are cruel
And that gentleness is only to be expected from the strong.
  --Leo Rosten



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Subject: Re: The gods and worship
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Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 07:30:43 -0800
Subject: Re: The gods and worship
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Tuesday, January 22, 2002, at 06:11 AM, James Silva wrote:

> Dear Ray, you mentioned some time ago that the elves did not worship 
> any gods, but rather they revered nature, and did not really understand 
> why other races worshipped gods.
>
> So, my question to you is, do the Dwarves worship gods, or rever nature 
> in a way similar to elves?

Dwarves respect the gods, but do not worship pre se.  They view the 
earth (literally, the dirt of the world) as living and treat it much the 
same way the elves do the forests.
>
> And, if they worship gods, are they the same as the human gods, eg, 
> Tith, Kahooli, etc, or do they have their own pantheon?
>
> Lastly, if they worship there own pantheon, I'm not looking fo specific 
> gods as you and Steve may not ever have created them, just curious as 
> to whether they have a pntheon or not or not.
>
> Oh, and one more thing, are goblins and trolls native to Midkemia, or 
> did they migrate over like the humans and dwarves?
>

The ONLY native intelligent races were Valheru, elven-kind, and dragons.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 08:01:10 -0800
Subject: Re: "Good" English?
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Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 08:01:10 -0800
Subject: Re: "Good" English?
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Tuesday, January 22, 2002, at 07:16 AM, Maximilian Wilson wrote:

> <<That said.  Last night on the BBC, a woman (home counties, I think.
> Our being able to pick out where someone is from based on accent is
> limited to Northern accents...and Swindon ;->) was being interviewed
> after having knee replacement surgery in Lille (courtesy of the
> NHS)
>
> voiceover:  "Language hasn't been a problem"
> interviewee:  "No!  They all speak good English..."
>
> Collective cringe from everyone in the house.  "'They speak
> English /well/', dammit.">>
>
> Seems perfectly legitimate to me. They speak <good English>. Adjective, 
> not adverb. She cooks <good food>.
>
> Now, if she'd said, "They all speak English good," *then* I'd cringe 
> too. And so would she, most probably.
>
> --Wilson
>

Naw.  Everyone knows it should be "The all speak well English."  <g>

I was wondering when someone would point this out.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 08:02:00 -0800
Subject: Re: Jimmy at Sarth
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Tuesday, January 22, 2002, at 07:25 AM, Maximilian Wilson wrote:

> Erik wrote:
>
> <<Jimmy visits the abbey at Sarth in _Silverthorn_. Almost exactly
> in the middle of the book if you wish to check for yourself.>>
>
> (Sorry about the formatting on the last one. I keep forgetting the
> 80-character columns.)
>
> Yes, but he doesn't sneak into a back entrance. They're being chased
> by Black Slayers, and they make a stand at the front gate where Brother
> Dominic intervenes to drive off the Black Slayers. They go inside, mess
> around for a bit, beat off some attackers from Murmandamus, and leave.
> Arutha and co. head off to Elvandar, and they put Jimmy on a ship for
> Krondor which he sneaks off of to follow them. (ObEnglish: should be
> "off of which he sneaks," though that grammatical rule is probably
> ready to expire in AmeriEnglish.)
>
> So if Jimmy does find the secret entrance later used by Arutha, either
> I've overlooked it or it's somewhere else. And I'm pretty sure he found
> it from the outside of the mountain, not the inside, which wouldn't take
> much thieving skill.
>

You didn't overlook it.  It's not in the RIftwar.  It's in Betrayal.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Hi Ray:

Thank you again for your insight.

Adieu

Jimmy

>From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
>Subject: Re: The gods and worship
>Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 07:30:43 -0800
>
>
>On Tuesday, January 22, 2002, at 06:11 AM, James Silva wrote:
>
>>Dear Ray, you mentioned some time ago that the elves did not worship
>>any gods, but rather they revered nature, and did not really understand
>>why other races worshipped gods.
>>
>>So, my question to you is, do the Dwarves worship gods, or rever nature
>>in a way similar to elves?
>
>Dwarves respect the gods, but do not worship pre se.  They view the
>earth (literally, the dirt of the world) as living and treat it much the
>same way the elves do the forests.
>>
>>And, if they worship gods, are they the same as the human gods, eg,
>>Tith, Kahooli, etc, or do they have their own pantheon?
>>
>>Lastly, if they worship there own pantheon, I'm not looking fo specific
>>gods as you and Steve may not ever have created them, just curious as
>>to whether they have a pntheon or not or not.
>>
>>Oh, and one more thing, are goblins and trolls native to Midkemia, or
>>did they migrate over like the humans and dwarves?
>>
>
>The ONLY native intelligent races were Valheru, elven-kind, and dragons.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
>stupidity.
>


_________________________________________________________________
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How can something so right sound so wrong? :)

Jimmy

>From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
>Subject: Re: "Good" English?
>Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 08:01:10 -0800
>
>
>On Tuesday, January 22, 2002, at 07:16 AM, Maximilian Wilson wrote:
>
>><<That said.  Last night on the BBC, a woman (home counties, I think.
>>Our being able to pick out where someone is from based on accent is
>>limited to Northern accents...and Swindon ;->) was being interviewed
>>after having knee replacement surgery in Lille (courtesy of the
>>NHS)
>>
>>voiceover:  "Language hasn't been a problem"
>>interviewee:  "No!  They all speak good English..."
>>
>>Collective cringe from everyone in the house.  "'They speak
>>English /well/', dammit.">>
>>
>>Seems perfectly legitimate to me. They speak <good English>. Adjective,
>>not adverb. She cooks <good food>.
>>
>>Now, if she'd said, "They all speak English good," *then* I'd cringe
>>too. And so would she, most probably.
>>
>>--Wilson
>>
>
>Naw.  Everyone knows it should be "The all speak well English."  <g>
>
>I was wondering when someone would point this out.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
>stupidity.
>


_________________________________________________________________
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From: "Terri Lyn Layman" <terrilyn@ameritech.net>
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Subject: *wave*
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Hello,

Long time no see on this list.  I was on here a while ago... nice to see
that Ray still posts.

Anyhow, since I was last here, I've:
-gotten married
-had to give up being polyamourus b/c women suck just that much
-changed my major from engineering to computer technology
and
-graduated from Purdue.

So, that's catchin up on me in a nutshell.

So, when's the next book due out, and what's the title?  I've been keeping
myself busy with another series (Harry Potter) lately and fallen abit out of
the loop.

Life is interesting,
-TerriLyn



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Organization: http://freemail.web.de/
From: Daniel Gudlat <gudlat@web.de>
To: feistfans-l@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: *wave*
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On 22 Jan 2002 at 11:53, Terri Lyn Layman wrote:
> Long time no see on this list.  I was on here a while ago...
> nice to see that Ray still posts.

*waves back* nice to read you again, welcome back!

> Anyhow, since I was last here, I've:
> -gotten married

Congratulations! I gather it's the nice guy you mentioned last time you
were around here, and we all had one of the most civilized wildly off-topic
discussion I can remember in all my 'net years?

> -had to give up being polyamourus b/c women suck just that much

Sorry to hear that.

> -changed my major from engineering to computer technology

Dunno wether to congratulate you for that ;-)

> and
> -graduated from Purdue.

Well, this one's clear: congratulations again.

> So, when's the next book due out, and what's the title?  I've been
> keeping myself busy with another series (Harry Potter) lately and
> fallen abit out of the loop.

Hmm, I've fallen off the loop, and Harry's still waiting for me. So I'll
let someone else take over from here.

> Life is interesting,

It certainly is.
-- 
Daniel "Gudy" Gudlat
gudlat@web.de
________________________________________________________________
Keine verlorenen Lotto-Quittungen, keine vergessenen Gewinne mehr! 
Beim WEB.DE Lottoservice: http://tippen2.web.de/?x=13



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 07:56:03 +1100 (EST)
From: David Smith - NT Interoperability Engineer <David.M.Smith@Sun.COM>
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: "Good" English?
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

» > voiceover:  "Language hasn't been a problem"
» > interviewee:  "No!  They all speak good English..."
» >
» > Collective cringe from everyone in the house.  "'They speak
» > English /well/', dammit.">>
» >
» > Seems perfectly legitimate to me. They speak <good English>. Adjective, 
» > not adverb. She cooks <good food>.
» >
» > Now, if she'd said, "They all speak English good," *then* I'd cringe 
» > too. And so would she, most probably.
» >
» > --Wilson
» >
» 
» Naw.  Everyone knows it should be "The all speak well English."  <g>
» 
» I was wondering when someone would point this out.
» 
» Best, R.E.F.

"She cooks good food." tells us that the food she cooks is almost certainly 
tasty and possibly healthy, it says nothing for manner in which it was prepared. 
If you witnessed the preparation you may no longer think so highly of the end 
product.

By the same token. "They speak good English." tells us that they are speaking in 
a way which is understandable and most likely devoid of crude or slang terms. It 
does not mean they are capable of speaking English proficiently.

Another example, do you play good football or do you play football well? The 
first speaks of the overall game, the second is a testament to your ability. 
Brett Favre plays football well, however in the Packers/Rams playoff the other 
day he did not play a good game of football (unless you're a Rams fan). :)

-- David Smith



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Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 16:14:36 EST
Subject: Re: Serpentwar legacy?
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*** EOOH ***
From: Gkhd11a@aol.com
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 16:14:36 EST
Subject: Re: Serpentwar legacy?
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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No, no, I ment that you could not stop me if I did not post anything on the 
internet, such as my fan fic that is kept on my computer as well as work this 
campain.  You seem to be awfly jumpy to any sort of copyright misuse, and I 
would rather lose in court than help a lawyer make a living.  But anyway, as 
I understand it, Erik and Roo are done as far as your writing is conserend, 
so I wanted to work with them myself.  And if you would let me, I would, as 
think I said before, that I would gladly let you have all copyright over it 
if you were to let it go on the internet.  Not that you would...

Would you let consider letting the Hall of Worlds website have a Play by Post 
RPG, with the setting being the hall, Honest Johns, and our own made up 
worlds that would be in your universe?  Under any conditions or agreements?  

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Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 16:40:02 EST
Subject: Re: A congrats (for you all) A moan (at the world) and a request (for the boss)
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*** EOOH ***
From: RavusLupus@aol.com
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 16:40:02 EST
Subject: Re: A congrats (for you all) A moan (at the world) and a request (for the boss)
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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thanx a lot Tjeerd. I'll go sse the board.

Jaszon


In a message dated 22/01/2002 04:51:19 GMT Standard Time, 
how_news@hotmail.com writes:


> Tjeerd 

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Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 17:11:08 -0800
Subject: Re: Serpentwar legacy?
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 17:11:08 -0800
Subject: Re: Serpentwar legacy?
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Tuesday, January 22, 2002, at 01:14 PM, Gkhd11a@aol.com wrote:

> No, no, I ment that you could not stop me if I did not post anything on 
> the internet, such as my fan fic that is kept on my computer as well as 
> work this campain.  You seem to be awfly jumpy to any sort of copyright 
> misuse, and I would rather lose in court than help a lawyer make a 
> living.  But anyway, as I understand it, Erik and Roo are done as far 
> as your writing is conserend, so I wanted to work with them myself. 
>  And if you would let me, I would, as think I said before, that I would 
> gladly let you have all copyright over it if you were to let it go on 
> the internet.  Not that you would...

Got it.  Sure, you can practice writing anything on your own, as long as 
you don't publish it.  And to be clear, "publish" is a very broad term, 
which includes making copies and passing it around to your friends as 
well as trying to sell it to Random House.

>
> Would you let consider letting the Hall of Worlds website have a Play 
> by Post RPG, with the setting being the hall, Honest Johns, and our own 
> made up worlds that would be in your universe?  Under any conditions or 
> agreements?  

That's a tough one.  No one has approached us directly about Honest 
John's, per se, but it is part of the larger mythos.  Let me think on it 
and ask me again in a week or so.


Best, R.E.F.

--

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.

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Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 20:39:29 EST
Subject: Re: Thanks for the lecture
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*** EOOH ***
From: JEEPMONSTER69@aol.com
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 20:39:29 EST
Subject: Re: Thanks for the lecture
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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In a message dated 1/15/2002 2:09:30 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
johncjeffries@hotmail.com writes:


> LOL...thanks and as for the statement "I don't have alot of time" I am in a 
> computer science program with 16 credit hours(including 3 labs and Calculus 
> 2), working a 40 hour a week job and raising a 4 year old son....hmmm...I 
> guess I did deserve the "blasting", but I can assure you, I am not lazy, 
> anyway....To all those I upset....sorry, guess I'll post more careful next 
> time....cheers all
> 
> John
> 

John, I can sympathise- I'm taking 15 credits, not working, and have no kids, 
and Im having a bit of trouble with school.  Good Luck-you need it more than 
I do.


             Matt

"Ryden Dirtay- WOOH-WOOH!"- Psychopathic Rydas 

Cyanide Jokerz Homepage- see it and learn 

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Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 22:16:24 EST
Subject: Re: A congrats (for you all) A moan (at the world) and a request (for the boss)
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From: Gkhd11a@aol.com
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 22:16:24 EST
Subject: Re: A congrats (for you all) A moan (at the world) and a request (for the boss)
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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Hey, the Hall of worlds.net has a Ramond E Feist forum with about 10-15 
active members.

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Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 17:35:26 +1000 (GMT+1000)
From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Jimmy at Sarth
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


Jimmy goes into the tunnels in Krondor the Betreyal, which is
chronologically before Shards.

> Erik wrote:
>
> <<Jimmy visits the abbey at Sarth in _Silverthorn_. Almost exactly
> in the middle of the book if you wish to check for yourself.>>
>
> (Sorry about the formatting on the last one. I keep forgetting the
> 80-character columns.)
>
> Yes, but he doesn't sneak into a back entrance. They're being chased
> by Black Slayers, and they make a stand at the front gate where Brother
> Dominic intervenes to drive off the Black Slayers. They go inside, mess
> around for a bit, beat off some attackers from Murmandamus, and leave.
> Arutha and co. head off to Elvandar, and they put Jimmy on a ship for
> Krondor which he sneaks off of to follow them. (ObEnglish: should be
> "off of which he sneaks," though that grammatical rule is probably
> ready to expire in AmeriEnglish.)
>
> So if Jimmy does find the secret entrance later used by Arutha, either
> I've overlooked it or it's somewhere else. And I'm pretty sure he found
> it from the outside of the mountain, not the inside, which wouldn't take
> much thieving skill.
>
> --Wilson
>
> --
> I learned that it is the weak who are cruel
> And that gentleness is only to be expected from the strong.
>   --Leo Rosten
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________________________
> Your favorite stores, helpful shopping tools and great gift ideas. Experience the convenience of buying online with Shop@Netscape! http://shopnow.netscape.com/
>
> Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Mail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/
>
>

Thanks
Darragh
-=-=
www.iamtheporkfireman.com
[Email]: s356179@student.uq.edu.au [ICQ]: 114283262



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From: "Mark Chaloner" <markchaloner@btinternet.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Serpentwar legacy?
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 18:20:34 -0000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Mark Chaloner" <markchaloner@btinternet.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Serpentwar legacy?
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 18:20:34 -0000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

On Tuesday, January 22, 2002, at 01:14 PM, Gkhd11a@aol.com wrote:
>> No, no, I ment that you could not stop me if I did not post anything on
>>the internet, such as my fan fic that is kept on my computer as well as work
>>this campain.  You seem to be awfly jumpy to any sort of copyright misuse,
>>and I would rather lose in court than help a lawyer make a living.  But
>>anyway, as I understand it, Erik and Roo are done as far as your writing is
>>conserend, so I wanted to work with them myself.  And if you would let me, I
>>would, as think I said before, that I would gladly let you have all
>>copyright over it if you were to let it go on the internet.  Not that you
>>would...

> Got it. Sure, you can practice writing anything on your own, as long as
>you don't publish it. And to be clear, "publish" is a very broad term, which
>includes making copies and passing it around to your friends as well as
>trying to sell it to Random House.

>> Would you let consider letting the Hall of Worlds website have a Play by
>>Post RPG, with the setting being the hall, Honest Johns, and our own made up
>>worlds that would be in your universe?  Under any conditions or agreements?

> That's a tough one. No one has approached us directly about Honest John's,
>per se, but it is part of the larger mythos. Let me think on it and ask me
>again in a week or so.
>Best, R.E.F.



When I brought up the issue of exploring Honest John's a bit futher a couple
of years back, a lot of people jumped on my back and said it would become a
bit like the Star Wars bar if there were to be a book.

I still maintain there's a heck of a lot of scope there for doing a book and
it's a real shame one can't be worked out at some point.


---
mark ;-)
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
'A man who sees a god in his master, scarcely hopes for paradise'
- Marquis de Custine
markchaloner@btinternet.com



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From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Serpentwar legacy?
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From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Serpentwar legacy?
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 15:06:57 -0500
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I think a collection of short stories about Honest Johns and the Hall of 
Worlds would be a good read, something similar to the "Tales of" books that 
the Star Wars Universe has. They would all have to be written by Ray of 
course, and he could even rerelease Profit to kick off the stories.

Adieu

Jimmy
>From: "Mark Chaloner" <markchaloner@btinternet.com>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
>Subject: RE: Serpentwar legacy?
>Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 18:20:34 -0000
>
>On Tuesday, January 22, 2002, at 01:14 PM, Gkhd11a@aol.com wrote:
> >> No, no, I ment that you could not stop me if I did not post anything on
>the internet, such as my fan fic that is kept on my computer as well as 
>work
>this campain.  You seem to be awfly jumpy to any sort of copyright misuse,
>and I would rather lose in court than help a lawyer make a living.  But
>anyway, as I understand it, Erik and Roo are done as far as your writing is
>conserend, so I wanted to work with them myself.  And if you would let me, 
>I
>would, as think I said before, that I would gladly let you have all
>copyright over it if you were to let it go on the internet.  Not that you
>would...
>
> > Got it. Sure, you can practice writing anything on your own, as long as
>you don't publish it. And to be clear, "publish" is a very broad term, 
>which
>includes making copies and passing it around to your friends as well as
>trying to sell it to Random House.
>
> >> Would you let consider letting the Hall of Worlds website have a Play 
>by
>Post RPG, with the setting being the hall, Honest Johns, and our own made 
>up
>worlds that would be in your universe?  Under any conditions or agreements?
>
> > That's a tough one. No one has approached us directly about Honest 
>John's,
>per se, but it is part of the larger mythos. Let me think on it and ask me
>again in a week or so.
>Best, R.E.F.
>
>
>
>When I brought up the issue of exploring Honest John's a bit futher a 
>couple
>of years back, a lot of people jumped on my back and said it would become a
>bit like the Star Wars bar if there were to be a book.
>
>I still maintain there's a heck of a lot of scope there for doing a book 
>and
>it's a real shame one can't be worked out at some point.
>
>
>---
>mark ;-)
>- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>'A man who sees a god in his master, scarcely hopes for paradise'
>- Marquis de Custine
>markchaloner@btinternet.com
>


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.



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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Larry Siegel <larry@psihawk.com>
Subject: RE: Serpentwar legacy?
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Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 15:31:53 -0500
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Larry Siegel <larry@psihawk.com>
Subject: RE: Serpentwar legacy?
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

At 03:06 PM 1/23/02 -0500, you wrote:
>I think a collection of short stories about Honest Johns and the Hall of 
>Worlds would be a good read, something similar to the "Tales of" books 
>that the Star Wars Universe has. They would all have to be written by Ray 
>of course, and he could even rerelease Profit to kick off the stories.

Rays next contest.... Write a short story to be included in the "Hall Of 
Worlds Collection".. of course all copyrights ideas...
etc are held by Ray...

Ok.. so its just a fantasy....

(No flames please... I am only joking around.... )



Larry

My Homepage
http://www.psihawk.com

Raymond E. Feist FAQ
http://www.psihawk.com/feist



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From: "Steve Weghorn" <pelvislives@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: some questions for Mr. Feist
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 17:21:01 -0500
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From: "Steve Weghorn" <pelvislives@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: some questions for Mr. Feist
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 17:21:01 -0500
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Hello Mr. Feist,

I have a few questions, possible spoiler for serpentwar and future books.







First I was wondering if Calis is able to have children, and if so
will they be in any future books.

Second in the RPG are the elves finally one race or do the moredel
still live apart, I was wondering because in the Betrayal book The elf
queen mentions to Gorath that they are the only ones not represented,
and I was curious if this was foreshadowing.

And last, awhile back I asked if I should go to a publisher first or
get an agent, you told me that I should get an agent first, but I am
at a loss on how to do this.  Do I look then up in the yellow pages,
or do I use the internet, or is there something else I should do.
Thank you for any help.

                                                              Steve Weghorn



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From: Gkhd11a@aol.com
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 18:41:20 EST
Subject: Re: Serpentwar legacy
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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At 03:06 PM 1/23/02 -0500, you wrote:
>I think a collection of short stories about Honest Johns and the Hall of 
>Worlds would be a good read, something similar to the "Tales of" books 
>that the Star Wars Universe has. They would all have to be written by Ray 
>of course, and he could even rerelease Profit to kick off the stories.

>Rays next contest.... Write a short story to be included in the "Hall Of 
>Worlds Collection".. of course all copyrights ideas...
>etc are held by Ray...

>Ok.. so its just a fantasy....

>(No flames please... I am only joking around.... )



>Larry

>My Homepage
>http://www.psihawk.com

>Raymond E. Feist FAQ
>http://www.psihawk.com/feist

Hey, that's basicly what a Play by Post RPG is.  You don't use stats, you 
just write it out like a book and interact with other characters at the same 
time.  

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Subject: RE: "Good" English?
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 00:54:51 -0000
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And that's another thing:-

"Football"

Here in good old England we play it with our feet.

In the USA, well, they pick it up.


BJS

:-P
Tongue wedged so firmly into cheek, that someone might just well, notice!


PS - On holiday a couple of years ago, at the Neuschwanstein Castle they had
queues for the different languages in which the tours were to be conducted.
The sign that said "English" had an American flag. Hmmm!


PPS - I play football badly.


-----Original Message-----
>From: David Smith - NT Interoperability Engineer
>[mailto:David.M.Smith@Sun.COM]
>Sent: 22 January 2002 20:56
>To: FEISTFANS-L
>Subject: Re: "Good" English?
>
>"She cooks good food." tells us that the food she cooks is almost certainly
>tasty and possibly healthy, it says nothing for manner in which it was
>prepared.
>If you witnessed the preparation you may no longer think so highly of the
>end
>product.
>
>By the same token. "They speak good English." tells us that they are
>speaking in
>a way which is understandable and most likely devoid of crude or slang
>terms. It
>does not mean they are capable of speaking English proficiently.
>
>Another example, do you play good football or do you play football well? The
>first speaks of the overall game, the second is a testament to your ability.
>Brett Favre plays football well, however in the Packers/Rams playoff the
>other
>day he did not play a good game of football (unless you're a Rams fan). :)
>
>-- David Smith
>


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Subject: Re: Serpentwar legacy
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Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 15:12:28 +0800
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Shawn Chung <shawnc@starhub.net.sg>
Subject: Re: Serpentwar legacy
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On 23 Jan 2002 18:41:20 -0500 (EST), Gkhd11a@aol.com said:

>At 03:06 PM 1/23/02 -0500, you wrote:
>>I think a collection of short stories about Honest Johns and the Hall of
>>Worlds would be a good read, something similar to the "Tales of" books
>>that the Star Wars Universe has. They would all have to be written by Ray
>>of course, and he could even rerelease Profit to kick off the stories.
>
>>Rays next contest.... Write a short story to be included in the "Hall Of
>>Worlds Collection".. of course all copyrights ideas...
>>etc are held by Ray...
>
>>Ok.. so its just a fantasy....
>
>  >(No flames please... I am only joking around.... )
>

[snip]

>
>Hey, that's basicly what a Play by Post RPG is.  You don't use 
>stats, you just write it out like a book and interact with other 
>characters at the same time.  

IIRC, there was something similar a few years back at the 
alt.book.m-lackey newsgroup, where there was a virtual Inn that 
sprang up as a place for interaction amongst the regular newsgroup 
people.

Its been years since I was last there, so I never knew how they 
wangled it, but they actually had permission from Mercedes Lackey to 
'broadly base' that Inn in her world, although serious fanfic, 
especially any utilizing her characters and certain defining aspects 
of her works, were expressively prohibited and policed by not only 
her (lurking) representatives, but long term fans as well.

One big exception was someone who went by the usename 'Firesong', 
which is a major character in about 8 of her books.  The reason for 
this was that his usename actually predated her character's first 
appearance in her books by about 6 months.
-- 
----

SeeYa StarSide

Shawn Chung

+---------------------------------------+
       If i could tell the world just one thing
          It would be that we're all okay
  And not to worry 'cause worry is wasteful
          And useless in times like these
               I won't be made useless
              I won't be idle with despair
          I'll gather myself around my faith
       For light does the darkness most fear
+---------------------------------------+
                    "Hands" - Jewel

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At 07:56 AM 1/23/02 +1100, David Smith - NT Interoperability 
Engineer wrote:
>By the same token. "They speak good English." tells us that 
>they are speaking in a way which is understandable and most 
>likely devoid of crude or slang terms. It does not mean they 
>are capable of speaking English proficiently.

I had issues with the woman saying "they speak good (sic) 
English" probably because that "you speak English /well/"
was how I was brought up.

But given your excellent summation, I would have to add
that part of the interview incorporated a sound bite in
which the French health care specialist was giving the
patient instructions.  It wasn't 'good English'.  But, 
he /was/ understandable.  He spoke it well enough to be 
understood.

rip



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Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 06:59:09 EST
Subject: Re: "Good" English?
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In a message dated 24/01/2002 09:17:38 GMT Standard Time, 
richard.williamson@windriver.com writes:


> (sic) 

hello, could you please tell me what "(sic)" means? I've always wonderd....

cheers 

Jaszon 

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Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 12:43:13 +0000
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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Subject: Re: "Good" English?
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At 06:59 AM 1/24/02 -0500, RavusLupus@aol.com wrote:
>In a message dated 24/01/2002 09:17:38 GMT Standard Time, richard.williamson@windriver.com writes:
>>(sic) 
>
>hello, could you please tell me what "(sic)" means? I've always wonderd....

Executive summary:  Sic indicates that there is an error in 
the quote, but it was the original that was wrong, not the quote.

When you see something is wrong in a quote, and there is a 
"(sic)" behind it, that means that the error was transcribed 
as is, the error was not as a result of the person using
the quote mis-transcribing something.

So if I said "Fiest said such and such", and you wanted to 
quote me while at the same time point out that I'd misspelled 
his name, and not you, then you would say:

"according to rip, 'Fiest (sic) said such and such'..."  This 
shows that you (as the quoter) /know/ that what was written 
was incorrect, but have copied the quote as it was written.

Likewise, say I wrote "Feist said such and such", and you
quoted me, saying "according to rip, 'Fiest said such and 
such'...".  People reading your quote would have to have
access to the original source material, before they could
determine whether it was you or I who had made the error.


rip



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*** EOOH ***
From: RavusLupus@aol.com
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 08:02:28 EST
Subject: Re: "Good" English?
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thanx a lot. 



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Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 06:19:11 -0800 (PST)
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--- Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com> wrote:
>Executive summary:  Sic indicates that there is an error in 
>the quote, but it was the original that was wrong, not the quote.
>When you see something is wrong in a quote, and there is a 
>"(sic)" behind it, that means that the error was transcribed 
>as is, the error was not as a result of the person using
>the quote mis-transcribing something.
>So if I said "Fiest said such and such", and you wanted to 
>quote me while at the same time point out that I'd misspelled 
>his name, and not you, then you would say:
>"according to rip, 'Fiest (sic) said such and such'..."  This 
>shows that you (as the quoter) /know/ that what was written 
>was incorrect, but have copied the quote as it was written.
>Likewise, say I wrote "Feist said such and such", and you
>quoted me, saying "according to rip, 'Fiest said such and 
>such'...".  People reading your quote would have to have
>access to the original source material, before they could
>determine whether it was you or I who had made the error.

"Sic!" means in Latin "Yes!" and is also used when writing about
something unbelievable, but true, e.g. "He lived with three (sic!)
beautiful chicks in one house." :-)

Kind Regards,
Father Nathan


_____________________________________________________________
Get your Free, Permanent, and Private Irish Email Today!
---------- http://www.irish4ever.com -----------



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Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 15:19:09 -0000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "William Marnoch" <william@wmarnoch.freeserve.co.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 15:19:09 -0000
Subject: Second Legends anthology
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Hi,
I heard recently on another e-mail list that there would be a second 
book of fantasy short-stories by various authors released next year. 
Like the existing "Legends" book it would be edited by Robert 
Silverberg. According to the e-mail Ray would be among the 
authors contributing a story to it, I wondered if that could be 
confirmed and if there's any indication of what the story would be 
about at the moment?


-- 
William Marnoch
william@wmarnoch.freeserve.co.uk
ICQ:77848483



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Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 09:05:56 -0800
Subject: Re: Second Legends anthology
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 09:05:56 -0800
Subject: Re: Second Legends anthology
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On Thursday, January 24, 2002, at 07:19 AM, William Marnoch wrote:

> Hi,
> I heard recently on another e-mail list that there would be a second
> book of fantasy short-stories by various authors released next year.
> Like the existing "Legends" book it would be edited by Robert
> Silverberg. According to the e-mail Ray would be among the
> authors contributing a story to it, I wondered if that could be
> confirmed and if there's any indication of what the story would be
> about at the moment?
>
>
> --
> William Marnoch
> william@wmarnoch.freeserve.co.uk
> ICQ:77848483
>
>
>
>

Yes, I will be doing another story for Bob in Legends II.  The story is 
called The Messenger.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
From: "Chris Smith" <cjs94@zepler.org.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 19:06:03 -0000
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On 24 Jan 2002, at 12:43, Richard Williamson wrote:
> At 06:59 AM 1/24/02 -0500, RavusLupus@aol.com wrote:
> >In a message dated 24/01/2002 09:17:38 GMT Standard Time, richard.williamson@windriver.com writes:
> >>(sic) 
> >
> >hello, could you please tell me what "(sic)" means? I've always wonderd....
> 
> Executive summary:  Sic indicates that there is an error in 
> the quote, but it was the original that was wrong, not the quote.

Ok, so how would you indicate the reverse? If you are quoting someone 
and have modified the quote, (for instance, to re-establish context.) 
how would you indicate that?

Chris
-- 
cjs94@zepler.org.uk



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From: John <john@crydee.com>
Subject: Re: Second Legends anthology
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 <A17E9546-10EC-11D6-946D-003065A8A644@bittersea.com>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 19:09:07 +0000
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: John <john@crydee.com>
Subject: Re: Second Legends anthology
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Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com> writes
>
>Yes, I will be doing another story for Bob in Legends II.  The story is 
>called The Messenger.
>
>Best, R.E.F.

And to think when I asked the publishers a year ago the answer was no :) 
Time to start saving for the leather-bound. And this time 2 copies ! 
<G>
-- 
John

john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.

Raymond E Feist Ring
http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm



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Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 08:52:03 +0000
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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Grandad Rufus <rufo@bigwig.net>
Subject: Re: Serpentwar legacy
References: <38.21f644f1.2980a420@aol.com>
 <p04310101b8755f12d653@[210.24.69.131]>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 08:52:03 +0000
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Grandad Rufus <rufo@bigwig.net>
Subject: Re: Serpentwar legacy
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

In article <p04310101b8755f12d653@[210.24.69.131]>, Shawn Chung
<shawnc@starhub.net.sg> writes
>    On 23 Jan 2002 18:41:20 -0500 (EST), Gkhd11a@aol.com said:
>
>>       At 03:06 PM 1/23/02 -0500, you wrote:

Cyber Snippage Has Taken Place ....

>
>
>    [snip]
>
>
>>       Hey, that's basicly what a Play by Post RPG is.  You don't use 
>>       stats, you just write it out like a book and interact with other 
>>       characters at the same time.  
>
>    IIRC, there was something similar a few years back at the 
>    alt.book.m-lackey newsgroup, where there was a virtual Inn that 
>    sprang up as a place for interaction amongst the regular newsgroup 
>    people.
>
>    Its been years since I was last there, so I never knew how they 
>    wangled it, but they actually had permission from Mercedes Lackey 
>    to 'broadly base' that Inn in her world, although serious fanfic, 
>    especially any utilizing her characters and certain defining 
>    aspects of her works, were expressively prohibited and policed by 
>    not only her (lurking) representatives, but long term fans as well.
>

The Inn ( now called The Ogre, Elf & Imp after it's proprietors ), may
well have started that way, but is no longer. It is now the centre of
the newsgroup where people go to delurk, make major announcements, or
even just have a quiet Misty Mixer or even Flagon of Feist !

>    One big exception was someone who went by the usename 'Firesong', 
>    which is a major character in about 8 of her books.  The reason for 
>    this was that his usename actually predated her character's first 
>    appearance in her books by about 6 months.
>

He still pops in occasionally.

I frequent alt.books.m-lackey under a different guise.

-- 
*******
Grandad Rufus.

It's not that I have a dirty mind, you understand.
It's just that so many of my thoughts leave muddy little footprints...



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From: Joshua Stanton <jasharkalain@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: "Good" English?
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 13:54:38 -0800 (PST)
From: Joshua Stanton <jasharkalain@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: "Good" English?
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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--- Chris Smith <cjs94@zepler.org.uk> wrote:> >
> >Executive summary:  Sic indicates that there is an
> error in 
> > the quote, but it was the original that was wrong,
> not the quote.
> 
> Ok, so how would you indicate the reverse? If you
> are quoting someone 
> and have modified the quote, (for instance, to
> re-establish context.) 
> how would you indicate that?

cis

~Joshua~

> 
> Chris
> -- 
> cjs94@zepler.org.uk
> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! 
http://auctions.yahoo.com



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Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 13:54:58 -0800
Subject: Re: "Good" English?
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 13:54:58 -0800
Subject: Re: "Good" English?
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Thursday, January 24, 2002, at 11:06 AM, Chris Smith wrote:

> On 24 Jan 2002, at 12:43, Richard Williamson wrote:
>> At 06:59 AM 1/24/02 -0500, RavusLupus@aol.com wrote:
>>> In a message dated 24/01/2002 09:17:38 GMT Standard Time, 
>>> richard.williamson@windriver.com writes:
>>>> (sic)
>>>
>>> hello, could you please tell me what "(sic)" means? I've always 
>>> wonderd....
>>
>> Executive summary:  Sic indicates that there is an error in
>> the quote, but it was the original that was wrong, not the quote.
>
> Ok, so how would you indicate the reverse? If you are quoting someone
> and have modified the quote, (for instance, to re-establish context.)
> how would you indicate that?
>

"Ok, so how would you indicate the reverse? If you are quoting someone
and have modified the quote, (for instance, to re-establish context.)
how would you indicate that?"  [Emphasis mine--editor]

"Ok, so how would you indicate the reverse. . . [that you] have modified 
the quote. . . how would you indicate that?"


That's how you do it.   The elipsis shows something's been cut and the 
brackets show something's been added for clarity.

Best, R.E.F.


----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.

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Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 13:55:33 -0800
Subject: Re: Second Legends anthology
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 13:55:33 -0800
Subject: Re: Second Legends anthology
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Thursday, January 24, 2002, at 11:09 AM, John wrote:

> Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com> writes
>>
>> Yes, I will be doing another story for Bob in Legends II.  The story 
>> is called The Messenger.
>>
>> Best, R.E.F.
>
> And to think when I asked the publishers a year ago the answer was 
> no :) Time to start saving for the leather-bound. And this time 2 
> copies ! <G>
> -- John
>

Different publisher this time.  And no talk of leather bound.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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From: John <john@crydee.com>
Subject: Re: Second Legends anthology
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 <1706484A-1115-11D6-AE22-003065A8A644@bittersea.com>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 22:05:19 +0000
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: John <john@crydee.com>
Subject: Re: Second Legends anthology
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Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com> writes
>
>On Thursday, January 24, 2002, at 11:09 AM, John wrote:
>
>> Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com> writes
>>>
>>> Yes, I will be doing another story for Bob in Legends II.  The story 
>>>is called The Messenger.
>>>
>>> Best, R.E.F.
>>
>> And to think when I asked the publishers a year ago the answer was no 
>>:) Time to start saving for the leather-bound. And this time 2  copies 
>><G>
>> -- John
>>
>
>Different publisher this time.  And no talk of leather bound.
>
>Best, R.E.F.

That will save me a bit of money then :)
They were a good investment. Last time IIRC they went from $250 to $750 
overnight :)
-- 
John

john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.

Raymond E Feist Ring
http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm



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Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 17:30:56 -0500
Subject: Re: "Good" English?
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From: Bob Montgomery <dante@kingcon.com>
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Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 17:30:56 -0500
Subject: Re: "Good" English?
From: Bob Montgomery <dante@kingcon.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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You wouldn't make a bad editor, Ray :)

If you're ever looking for a second career, I could probably find an 
opening for you with us... though you'd have to start at the bottom as a 
copy editor; it wouldn't do to show favoritism, now would it? *grin*



On Thursday, January 24, 2002, at 04:54 PM, Raymond Feist wrote:

> That's how you do it.   The elipsis shows something's been cut and the 
> brackets show something's been added for clarity.
>
> Best, R.E.F.

1,,
Summary-line: 24-Jan      raymond@bittersea.com  [60] #Re: "Good" English?
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Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 16:40:58 -0800
Subject: Re: "Good" English?
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 16:40:58 -0800
Subject: Re: "Good" English?
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Thursday, January 24, 2002, at 02:30 PM, Bob Montgomery wrote:

> You wouldn't make a bad editor, Ray :)
>
> If you're ever looking for a second career, I could probably find an 
> opening for you with us... though you'd have to start at the bottom as 
> a copy editor; it wouldn't do to show favoritism, now would it? *grin*
>

Just what you need: a dyslexic copy editor.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



1,,
Summary-line: 25-Jan  s356179@student.uq.edu.au  [64] #Re: "Good" English?
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Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 16:43:48 +1000 (GMT+1000)
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From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
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Subject: Re: "Good" English?
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Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 16:43:48 +1000 (GMT+1000)
From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: "Good" English?
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> On 24 Jan 2002, at 12:43, Richard Williamson wrote:
> > At 06:59 AM 1/24/02 -0500, RavusLupus@aol.com wrote:
> > >In a message dated 24/01/2002 09:17:38 GMT Standard Time, richard.williamson@windriver.com writes:
> > >>(sic)
> > >
> > >hello, could you please tell me what "(sic)" means? I've always wonderd....
> >
> > Executive summary:  Sic indicates that there is an error in
> > the quote, but it was the original that was wrong, not the quote.
>
> Ok, so how would you indicate the reverse? If you are quoting someone
> and have modified the quote, (for instance, to re-establish context.)
> how would you indicate that?
> Chris

As a veteran of many a history essay, in my history department you can
also use 'sic' to make the quote make sense, if you get my drift.

Thanks
Darragh
-=-=
www.iamtheporkfireman.com
[Email]: s356179@student.uq.edu.au [ICQ]: 114283262



1,,
Summary-line: 25-Jan      shawnc@starhub.net.sg [107] #Re: Serpentwar legacy
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Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 16:14:04 +0800
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From: Shawn Chung <shawnc@starhub.net.sg>
Subject: Re: Serpentwar legacy
Cc: Grandad Rufus <rufo@bigwig.net>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 16:14:04 +0800
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Shawn Chung <shawnc@starhub.net.sg>
Subject: Re: Serpentwar legacy
Cc: Grandad Rufus <rufo@bigwig.net>
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On 24 Jan 2002 08:52:03 +0000, Grandad Rufus <rufo@bigwig.net> said:

>In article <p04310101b8755f12d653@[210.24.69.131]>, Shawn Chung
><shawnc@starhub.net.sg> writes
>>     On 23 Jan 2002 18:41:20 -0500 (EST), Gkhd11a@aol.com said:
>>
>  >>       At 03:06 PM 1/23/02 -0500, you wrote:

[snip]

>The Inn ( now called The Ogre, Elf & Imp after it's proprietors ), may
>well have started that way, but is no longer. It is now the centre of
>the newsgroup where people go to delurk, make major announcements, or
>even just have a quiet Misty Mixer or even Flagon of Feist !
>
>>     One big exception was someone who went by the usename 'Firesong',
>>     which is a major character in about 8 of her books.  The reason for
>>     this was that his usename actually predated her character's first
>>     appearance in her books by about 6 months.
>>
>
>He still pops in occasionally.
>
>I frequent alt.books.m-lackey under a different guise.
>
[snip]

I used to be a regular there when I was in university in Australia. 
Unfortunately, over here in Singapore, the newsgroup aspect of the 
Internet is almost totally overlooked, so the servers don't seem to 
be well, ummm, maintained, and there's always a lot of missed 
postings, to the point where I gave up and dropped out of newsgroups 
altogether some years back.

Anyway, back in the early 90's, the Inn at abm-l was a lot like it 
was today, although there was a small segment of people who actually 
used it to role play, from anything like the Trial of Fluffy the Cat 
to some serious semi fanfic.

Lovely crowd there though.  Fluffy occasionaly pops up at Dixon's 
Vixens at Baen's Bar now.
-- 
----

SeeYa StarSide

Shawn Chung

+---------------------------------------+
       If i could tell the world just one thing
          It would be that we're all okay
  And not to worry 'cause worry is wasteful
          And useless in times like these
               I won't be made useless
              I won't be idle with despair
          I'll gather myself around my faith
       For light does the darkness most fear
+---------------------------------------+
                    "Hands" - Jewel



1,,
Summary-line: 25-Jan  ard.williamson@windriver.  [62] #Re: "Good" English?
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Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 08:48:31 +0000
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From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: "Good" English?
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 08:48:31 +0000
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: "Good" English?
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

At 07:06 PM 1/24/02 +0000, Chris Smith wrote:
>If you are quoting someone and have modified the quote, 

Chris asked 'If you are quoting someone [with a] modified quote,...'

like that.  The [...] construction indicates that you have
changed the original quote for space or to show context.

"I like him", said Boris Ryabovich.

Without context, who does Boris like?
(he said 'he likes [Ivan Ivanovich]')

rip



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Summary-line: 25-Jan          dante@kingcon.com  [54] #Re: "Good" English?
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Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 06:27:34 -0500
Subject: Re: "Good" English?
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 06:27:34 -0500
Subject: Re: "Good" English?
From: Bob Montgomery <dante@kingcon.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Trust me, Ray, it can't be much worse than one or two people I already 
have to work with everyday :)

Besides, can you imagine the vino breaks we could have, since most 
everyone in editorial and production fancies themselves wine drinkers? :)

On Thursday, January 24, 2002, at 07:40 PM, Raymond Feist wrote:

> Just what you need: a dyslexic copy editor.
>
> Best, R.E.F.



1,,
Summary-line: 25-Jan        natz101@hotmail.com  [54] #Feist presents
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From: "Natalie Henderson" <natz101@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Feist presents
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 11:43:33 +0000
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Hi everyone!

Its my 21st today so I'm hoping that my family have taken the hint and 
gotten me some cool Feist-related presents. Thanks for your suggestions 
John!!! :)

Natalie


_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com



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From: "Syrion Hall of Worlds" <how_news@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re: Feist presents
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 16:15:40 +0000
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Congratulations! :D

Tjeerd


>From: "Natalie Henderson" <natz101@hotmail.com>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
>Subject: Feist presents
>Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 11:43:33 +0000
>
>Hi everyone!
>
>Its my 21st today so I'm hoping that my family have taken the hint and
>gotten me some cool Feist-related presents. Thanks for your suggestions
>John!!! :)
>
>Natalie
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
>




Tjeerd "Syrion" van Sas
http://www.hallofworlds.net


_________________________________________________________________
MSN Foto's is de eenvoudigste manier om je favoriete foto's te delen, te 
bewerken en af te drukken. http://photos.msn.nl/Support/WorldWide.aspx



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Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 13:08:31 -0800
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Subject: The Count of Monte Christo
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 13:08:31 -0800
Subject: The Count of Monte Christo
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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Saw it.

See it.

Best adaptation of a Dumas book ever, best swashbuckling film ever (OK, 
so maybe it's tied with Ken Russel's Three Musketeers and Michael 
Curtiz's Captain Blood, but it's that good).

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 14:58:14 -0800
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 14:58:14 -0800
From: Carl Dershem <dershem@cox.net>
Organization: Project Selene
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: The Count of Monte Christo
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Raymond Feist wrote:
> 
> Saw it.
> 
> See it.
> 
> Best adaptation of a Dumas book ever, best swashbuckling film ever (OK,
> so maybe it's tied with Ken Russel's Three Musketeers and Michael
> Curtiz's Captain Blood, but it's that good).

Not a slaughter?  That's a happy change from the staus quo!

cd
-- 
Death to all Absolutists!



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From: "Michael Gibson" <mike@gibbyco.freeserve.co.uk>
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Subject: Q for Ray
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 23:30:00 -0000
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Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: "Michael Gibson" <mike@gibbyco.freeserve.co.uk>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Q for Ray
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 23:30:00 -0000
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Hi Ray

I was watching a programme about J K Rowling recently (well OK, it was about a
month ago, but hey).  In the interview, she said that when she first started
writing, she hated what she wrote, but over time, that passed - did you
experience the same, and is it common among authors?

Also, when you started writing, did your friends and family recognise that you
had the potential to become a successful author, or did any of them discount it
as a mad plan?

Mike,
Gibfish of the West

"Better to light a candle than to curse the darkness."
Confucius



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Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1969 16:58:19 -0800
Subject: Re: The Count of Monte Christo
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1969 16:58:19 -0800
Subject: Re: The Count of Monte Christo
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Friday, January 25, 2002, at 02:58 PM, Carl Dershem wrote:

> Raymond Feist wrote:
>>
>> Saw it.
>>
>> See it.
>>
>> Best adaptation of a Dumas book ever, best swashbuckling film ever (OK,
>> so maybe it's tied with Ken Russel's Three Musketeers and Michael
>> Curtiz's Captain Blood, but it's that good).
>
> Not a slaughter?  That's a happy change from the staus quo!
>

It's wonderfully realized.  Even David Elliot in the Union-Tribune liked 
it.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1969 16:59:30 -0800
Subject: Re: Q for Ray
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1969 16:59:30 -0800
Subject: Re: Q for Ray
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Friday, January 25, 2002, at 03:30 PM, Michael Gibson wrote:

> Hi Ray
>
> I was watching a programme about J K Rowling recently (well OK, it was 
> about a
> month ago, but hey).  In the interview, she said that when she first 
> started
> writing, she hated what she wrote, but over time, that passed - did you
> experience the same, and is it common among authors?

You never get to what you've got in your head, so that's frustrating, 
and you've got to go over the material many times, and that's tedious.

I like some of the stuff I've written, but you think it always could 
have been better.

>
> Also, when you started writing, did your friends and family recognise 
> that you
> had the potential to become a successful author, or did any of them 
> discount it
> as a mad plan?
>

They were very encouraging.  They believed in it from early on.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 16:57:53 -0800
From: Carl Dershem <dershem@cox.net>
Organization: Project Selene
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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Raymond Feist wrote:
> 
> >> Best adaptation of a Dumas book ever, best swashbuckling film ever (OK,
> >> so maybe it's tied with Ken Russel's Three Musketeers and Michael
> >> Curtiz's Captain Blood, but it's that good).
> >
> > Not a slaughter?  That's a happy change from the staus quo!
> >
> 
> It's wonderfully realized.  Even David Elliot in the Union-Tribune liked
> it.

Prepare for the apocalypse!
:)
cd
-- 
Death to all Absolutists!



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2002 00:23:56 -0800
From: Max Haghighi <maxhag@pacbell.net>
Subject: RE: Second Legends anthology
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of John
>Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2002 2:05 PM
>To: FEISTFANS-L
>Subject: Re: Second Legends anthology
>
>Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com> writes
>>
>>On Thursday, January 24, 2002, at 11:09 AM, John wrote:
>>
>>> Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com> writes
>>>>
>>>> Yes, I will be doing another story for Bob in Legends II.  The story
>
>>>>is called The Messenger.
>>>>
>>>> Best, R.E.F.
>>>
>>> And to think when I asked the publishers a year ago the answer was no
>
>>>:) Time to start saving for the leather-bound. And this time 2  copies
>
>>><G>
>>> -- John
>>>
>>
>>Different publisher this time.  And no talk of leather bound.
>>
>>Best, R.E.F.
>
>That will save me a bit of money then :)
>They were a good investment. Last time IIRC they went from $250 to $750 
>overnight :)
>-- 
>John
>

I even some them go for $1,500 to $2,000.

Max



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From: LAR <lds627@attbi.com>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2002 06:12:07 -0800
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L),
        "'FEISTFANS-L'" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
From: LAR <lds627@attbi.com>
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As GBS Said:

America and England, two countries seperated by a common language.

Larry
enjoying a last drag on my fag afore chasing after the bees and honey


At 12:32 AM 1/20/2002 +0000, lists@bjs.org.uk wrote:

>What about four types: Multi Lingual, Bi Lingual, Mono Lingual and American?
>
>Americans can't even speak english properly!
>
>:-P
>
>BJS
>England
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: James Silva [mailto:kiehtan@hotmail.com]
>Sent: 17 January 2002 17:39
>To: FEISTFANS-L
>Subject: Re: OT: Henry Rollins (Was Re: Jimmy The Hand)
>
>
>They say there are three types of people, Multi Lingual, Bi Lingual, and
>American. I must confess to being America. So when it comes to any language
>other than English, I must bow my head in defferance.



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2002 15:29:19 +0000
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From: John <john@crydee.com>
Subject: Murder In LaMut - A Crydee.com update
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I have added to my site several images of the cover of Murder in LaMut , 
during the process of its creation, courtesy of Geoff Taylor. It still 
needs completing with text annotations but as I have had the images a 
couple of months I thought you would like a chance to see them

best
-- 
John

john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.

Raymond E Feist Ring
http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm



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*** EOOH ***
From: "Mark Chaloner" <markchaloner@btinternet.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Murder In LaMut - A Crydee.com update
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2002 15:59:07 -0000
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> I have added to my site several images of the cover of Murder in LaMut , 
>during the process of its creation, courtesy of Geoff Taylor. It still 
>needs completing with text annotations but as I have had the images a 
>couple of months I thought you would like a chance to see them
>best
>-- 
>John
>

Pretty cool. Geoff Taylor's a generous guy.

---
mark ;-)
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
'A man who sees a god in his master, scarcely hopes for paradise'
- Marquis de Custine
markchaloner@btinternet.com



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Subject: Re: Murder In LaMut - A Crydee.com update
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*** EOOH ***
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Subject: Re: Murder In LaMut - A Crydee.com update
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Thanks John,

That was really interesting, I love the net :)

- Ian



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From: Nathan <nathan@irish4ever.com>
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Subject: Re: Murder In LaMut - A Crydee.com update
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Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2002 11:34:23 -0800 (PST)
From: Nathan <nathan@irish4ever.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Murder In LaMut - A Crydee.com update
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--- John <john@crydee.com> wrote:
>I have added to my site several images of the cover of Murder in LaMut , 
>during the process of its creation, courtesy of Geoff Taylor. 

Where are they? I cannot find them.

Regards,
Father Nathan

_____________________________________________________________
Get your Free, Permanent, and Private Irish Email Today!
---------- http://www.irish4ever.com -----------



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2002 12:46:56 -0700
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Murder In LaMut - A Crydee.com update
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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John wrote:
> 
> I have added to my site several images of the cover of Murder in LaMut ,
> during the process of its creation, courtesy of Geoff Taylor. It still
> needs completing with text annotations but as I have had the images a
> couple of months I thought you would like a chance to see them

Erm, is there a reason that when I try to view this page with Netscape,
that when I load the index page there is nothing?

Craig J. Ries



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From: John <john@crydee.com>
Subject: Re: Murder In LaMut - A Crydee.com update
References: <MEb4JsEPzBV8EwRH@cableinet.co.uk> <3C545930.7D9657CB@yifan.net>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2002 20:01:15 +0000
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: John <john@crydee.com>
Subject: Re: Murder In LaMut - A Crydee.com update
User-Agent: Turnpike/6.01-Beta-2-U (<x5sqXV$6+zj$GDJXMMY4QwhIW3>)
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Craig J. Ries <cries@yifan.net> writes
>John wrote:
>>
>> I have added to my site several images of the cover of Murder in LaMut ,
>> during the process of its creation, courtesy of Geoff Taylor. It still
>> needs completing with text annotations but as I have had the images a
>> couple of months I thought you would like a chance to see them
>
>Erm, is there a reason that when I try to view this page with Netscape,
>that when I load the index page there is nothing?
>
>Craig J. Ries
>
>

Probably because it still works better with IE5 and 6 I still need to 
fix it for Netscape s inability to cope :)
-- 
John

john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.

Raymond E Feist Ring
http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm



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References: <MEb4JsEPzBV8EwRH@cableinet.co.uk> <3C545930.7D9657CB@yifan.net> <vAqwYkGLyFV8Ew0O@cableinet.co.uk>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2002 13:18:57 -0700
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Murder In LaMut - A Crydee.com update
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

John wrote:
> 
> Probably because it still works better with IE5 and 6 I still need to
> fix it for Netscape s inability to cope :)

Fooey.

Personally, I have a great dislike for IE (and Microsoft in general),
and I'm not gonna load it up just to view a single website when I use
Netscape to view all others. :)
Could've swore I was able to view the site with Netscape in the past...

Craig J. Ries



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From: John <john@crydee.com>
Subject: Re: Murder In LaMut - A Crydee.com update
References: <MEb4JsEPzBV8EwRH@cableinet.co.uk> <3C545930.7D9657CB@yifan.net>
 <vAqwYkGLyFV8Ew0O@cableinet.co.uk> <3C5460B1.C8CA967A@yifan.net>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2002 20:54:37 +0000
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: John <john@crydee.com>
Subject: Re: Murder In LaMut - A Crydee.com update
User-Agent: Turnpike/6.01-Beta-2-U (<x5sqXV$6+zj$GDJXMMY4QwhIW3>)
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Craig J. Ries <cries@yifan.net> writes
>John wrote:
>>
>> Probably because it still works better with IE5 and 6 I still need to
>> fix it for Netscape s inability to cope :)
>
>Fooey.
>
>Personally, I have a great dislike for IE (and Microsoft in general),
>and I'm not gonna load it up just to view a single website when I use
>Netscape to view all others. :)
>Could've swore I was able to view the site with Netscape in the past...
>
>Craig J. Ries
>
>
You was until I added an extra frame, which Netscape appears not to be 
able to cope with. Removing the extra frame is one of the things I still 
have to do
-- 
John

john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.

Raymond E Feist Ring
http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm



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References: <MEb4JsEPzBV8EwRH@cableinet.co.uk> <3C545930.7D9657CB@yifan.net>
	 <vAqwYkGLyFV8Ew0O@cableinet.co.uk> <3C5460B1.C8CA967A@yifan.net> <ij7DAIHNkGV8EwHh@cableinet.co.uk>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2002 14:03:21 -0700
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Murder In LaMut - A Crydee.com update
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John wrote:
> 
> You was until I added an extra frame, which Netscape appears not to be
> able to cope with. Removing the extra frame is one of the things I still
> have to do

Ahh, sounds good.

I wonder why Netscape had a fit over it.

Craig J. Ries



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2002 16:28:50 -0500
Subject: Re: Murder In LaMut - A Crydee.com update
From: Bob Montgomery <dante@kingcon.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I'm a Mac user now, and by nature I have no love for MicroSquash or its 
products, but IE 5.1 for Mac is leagues better than Netscape for Mac, 
which is a complete disaster, even with the new OS X version. However, 
the Mac version of Internet Explorer is programmed independently of the 
PC version by a Mac only group, so it's really a different animal 
altogether from its PC cousin. The Netscape version for Mac is merely a 
port of the PC version, as I understand it. And I used a PC for years as 
well, so I've used all the PC variants, too.

Having said that, though, I just used Netscape 6.2 for Mac on OS X to 
load up the web page without any problems... except that Netscape is 
obnoxiously slow compared to both OmniWeb and IE5.1, both of which I 
used just now to load up the page.

With that in mind, the page looks good on all three Mac browsers (yes, 
there's also Opera and a few other small ones, but these are the three 
primary OS X browsers). The MaLM photos look great! What a cool thing to 
have those available for everyone to see. Now we just have to wait for 
the book :)

Thanks John for the hard work!


On Sunday, January 27, 2002, at 03:54 PM, John wrote:

> You was until I added an extra frame, which Netscape appears not to be 
> able to cope with. Removing the extra frame is one of the things I 
> still have to do
> -- John



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2002 15:54:32 -0600 (CST)
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On Sun, 27 Jan 2002, John wrote:

> Craig J. Ries <cries@yifan.net> writes
> >John wrote:
> >>
> >> Probably because it still works better with IE5 and 6 I still need to
> >> fix it for Netscape s inability to cope :)
> >
> >Fooey.
> >
> >Personally, I have a great dislike for IE (and Microsoft in general),
> >and I'm not gonna load it up just to view a single website when I use
> >Netscape to view all others. :)
> >Could've swore I was able to view the site with Netscape in the past...
> >
> >Craig J. Ries
> >
> >
> You was until I added an extra frame, which Netscape appears not to be
> able to cope with. Removing the extra frame is one of the things I still
> have to do
>

Try netscape 6.2. It shows the page just as good (or maybe better !-) as IE

-- 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Cliff Nadler		Collective Technologies, Inc.
cnadler@colltech.com	(512)-263-5500
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
To win, you must treat a pressure situation as an opportunity to succeed,
not an opportunity to fail			Gardner Dickinson



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From: Tim Nicholas <tim@nicholas.net.nz>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Murder In LaMut - A Crydee.com update
Message-ID: <20020128112656.A5366@nicholas.net.nz>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 11:26:56 +1300
From: Tim Nicholas <tim@nicholas.net.nz>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Murder In LaMut - A Crydee.com update
User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i
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Hello,
Might I suggest mozilla... It's far faster than netscape 6 in my
experience and since it's got the same engine, it will show pages
the same. 
Netscape 6 seems to have all sorts of unnecessary add-ons, which do
nothing but slow it down. 
I have very rarely seen mozilla render html incorrectly. And it's
available for almost every platform around. (it's open source too!)

http://www.mozilla.org/

Tim

On Sun, Jan 27, 2002 at 03:54:32PM -0600, Cliff Nadler wrote:
> On Sun, 27 Jan 2002, John wrote:
> 
> > Craig J. Ries <cries@yifan.net> writes
> > >John wrote:
> > >>
> > >> Probably because it still works better with IE5 and 6 I still need to
> > >> fix it for Netscape s inability to cope :)
> > >
> > >Fooey.
> > >
> > >Personally, I have a great dislike for IE (and Microsoft in general),
> > >and I'm not gonna load it up just to view a single website when I use
> > >Netscape to view all others. :)
> > >Could've swore I was able to view the site with Netscape in the past...
> > >
> > >Craig J. Ries
> > >
> > >
> > You was until I added an extra frame, which Netscape appears not to be
> > able to cope with. Removing the extra frame is one of the things I still
> > have to do
> >
> 
> Try netscape 6.2. It shows the page just as good (or maybe better !-) as IE
> 
> -- 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Cliff Nadler		Collective Technologies, Inc.
> cnadler@colltech.com	(512)-263-5500
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> To win, you must treat a pressure situation as an opportunity to succeed,
> not an opportunity to fail			Gardner Dickinson
> 

-- 
Tim Nicholas                          ||                      Cilix
Email: tim@nicholas.net.nz            ||              ICQ# 15869961
http://tim.nicholas.net.nz/           ||       Dunedin, New Zealand
"Grow up, Larry. You give me too much credit." - Linus Torvalds



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2002 16:35:03 -0700
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Murder In LaMut - A Crydee.com update
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Tim Nicholas wrote:
> 
> Might I suggest mozilla... It's far faster than netscape 6 in my
> experience and since it's got the same engine, it will show pages
> the same.

I am using Opera alot of the time now for the usual web surfing.

> Netscape 6 seems to have all sorts of unnecessary add-ons, which do
> nothing but slow it down.

Yeah, I still use Communicator 4.78, and I refuse to upgrade beyond
that... mostly its due to all the unnecessary crap, but its also due to
the fact that I just don't like the look of Netscape 6 :)

I still use Communicator for e-mail and newsgroup stuff tho, why is
really why I don't get rid of Netscape altogether. :)

Craig J. Ries



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From: Carl Dershem <dershem@cox.net>
Organization: Project Selene
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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Murder In LaMut - A Crydee.com update
References: <ij7DAIHNkGV8EwHh@cableinet.co.uk> <Pine.LNX.4.33.0201271552430.19089-100000@xsvr> <20020128112656.A5366@nicholas.net.nz> <3C548EA7.98BA001B@yifan.net>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2002 16:39:26 -0800
From: Carl Dershem <dershem@cox.net>
Organization: Project Selene
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Murder In LaMut - A Crydee.com update
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

"Craig J. Ries" wrote:
> 
> Yeah, I still use Communicator 4.78, and I refuse to upgrade beyond
> that... mostly its due to all the unnecessary crap, but its also due to
> the fact that I just don't like the look of Netscape 6 :)

Agreed.  That, and the fact that a lot of the really useful features in
NS4.x were not carried on to 6.X - like [shift-C] for [mark all read] in
UseNet.

If they'd actually added features that *people* want, rather than those
that some unknown twerp in marketing wants...

cd
-- 
Death to all Absolutists!



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From: "Terri Lyn Layman" <terrilyn@ameritech.net>
To: "FeistList (E-mail)" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: I just got here too...
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2002 21:57:40 -0500
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*** EOOH ***
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: "Terri Lyn Layman" <terrilyn@ameritech.net>
To: "FeistList (E-mail)" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: I just got here too...
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2002 21:57:40 -0500
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

And now I have to go nomail for a week and a half.

Going on vacation to Phoenix, AZ.

I'll be back on 2/6.

Later,
-TerriLyn



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References: <000401c1a7a7$8d97d700$f131fea9@c8b5v1>
Subject: Re: I just got here too...
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 23:41:16 +1100
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Barker" <heechee@softhome.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: I just got here too...
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 23:41:16 +1100
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


----- Original Message -----
From: "Terri Lyn Layman" <terrilyn@ameritech.net>
To: "FeistList (E-mail) (FEISTFANS-L)" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2002 1:57 PM
Subject: I just got here too...


> And now I have to go nomail for a week and a half.
>
> Going on vacation to Phoenix, AZ.
>
> I'll be back on 2/6.
>
> Later,
> -TerriLyn
>

Might want to unsubscribe, or at least go digest for the time you're away...
I just popped off for a few days climbing and swimming down at the coast,
and got back to find 153 messages waiting. Not that much, given the history
of the list, but still enough. :)

Cheers,
James



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From: "Nancy K. Brown" <nkbrown@arches.uga.edu>
Message-Id: <200201281454.JAA168112@archa8.cc.uga.edu>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: new photos from my party!
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 09:54:12 -0500
From: "Nancy K. Brown" <nkbrown@arches.uga.edu>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: new photos from my party!
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Hello!

My party... It was absolutely amazing!
I have attached my web page with new photos!
If you can please make color prints of my photos. Thanks!

[attached stuff elided - archivist]

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From: Ola Angelsmark <olaan@ida.liu.se>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: new photos from my party!
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*** EOOH ***
X-Authentication-Warning: mir43.ida.liu.se: olaan owned process doing -bs
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 16:01:03 +0100 (MET)
From: Ola Angelsmark <olaan@ida.liu.se>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: new photos from my party!
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu



Good afternoon,

  I usually do not post here, I prefer to just enjoy the fruits of your
labor, but I felt compelled to point out that the 'new photos from my
party!' mail matches the description of a virus our sys admin here warned
about today.


Have a nice day.

-o



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From: Fred Collington <fcolling@yahoo.com>
Subject: OT: Henry Rollins (Was Re: Jimmy The Hand)
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 07:10:14 -0800 (PST)
From: Fred Collington <fcolling@yahoo.com>
Subject: OT: Henry Rollins (Was Re: Jimmy The Hand)
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


At 12:32 AM 1/20/2002 +0000, lists@bjs.org.uk wrote:

>What about four types: Multi Lingual, Bi Lingual,
Mono Lingual and 
American?
>
>Americans can't even speak english properly!

I thought the problem was that Brits failed to speak
American very well! 

Cheers,
Fred


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! 
http://auctions.yahoo.com



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Subject: VIRUS!! Alert Do Not open Re: new photos from my party!
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 15:42:28 +0000
Message-ID: <OFDB882CC1.E6E64AA8-ON80256B4F.005613DD@is.chbs>
X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on CHBSMN12/N1/Novartis(Release 5.0.8 |June 18, 2001) at
 01/28/2002 04:42:45 PM
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*** EOOH ***
From: richard.smith@pharma.novartis.com
Subject: VIRUS!! Alert Do Not open Re: new photos from my party!
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 15:42:28 +0000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


Looks like someone's been infected.

If opened by anyone this may come in handy

http://vil.nai.com/vil/content/v_99332.htm

Richard



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Message-ID: <KnN8EyFUpXV8EwzG@bloodaxe.demon.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 16:20:36 +0000
X-PH: V4.1@mailhub2 (Cornell Modified) 
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Andrea J Chee <andrea@bloodaxe.com>
Subject: VIRUS: new photos from my party!
References: <200201281454.JAA168112@archa8.cc.uga.edu>
 <Pine.GSO.4.44.0201281558070.19359-100000@mir43.ida.liu.se>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.44.0201281558070.19359-100000@mir43.ida.liu.se>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 16:20:36 +0000
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Andrea J Chee <andrea@bloodaxe.com>
Subject: VIRUS: new photos from my party!
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

In article <Pine.GSO.4.44.0201281558070.19359-100000@mir43.ida.liu.se>,
Ola Angelsmark <olaan@ida.liu.se> writes
>
>  I usually do not post here, I prefer to just enjoy the fruits of your
>labor, but I felt compelled to point out that the 'new photos from my
>party!' mail matches the description of a virus our sys admin here warned
>about today.

Confirmed:

http://www.symantec.com/avcenter/venc/data/w32.myparty@mm.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/sci/tech/newsid_1787000/1787265.stm

- ANDREA

-- 
  Get PAID for the emails you already send and receive! 
http://www.mailround.com/  Referrer: andrea@bloodaxe.com
^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^
                  ANDROMEDA - Internet Goddess
<andrea@bloodaxe.com>                    http://www.bloodaxe.com/
Bloodaxe's History Links:   http://www.geocities.com/Athens/5055/
The Loony Bin Archive:               http://loonies.net800.co.uk/



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To: feistfans-l@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Dan Lorey <dl24@cornell.edu>
Subject: ADMIN: Virus on list
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 11:46:08 -0500
To: feistfans-l@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Dan Lorey <dl24@cornell.edu>
Subject: ADMIN: Virus on list
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Folks,

  Earlier this morning, a message containing the computer virus/worm
W32.Myparty@mm was distributed to the list. The person who sent the
message has been removed from the list and notified of the presence 
of the virus on her computer. For those of you whose ISPs do not have
virus filtering software in their incoming mail (and why Cornell doesn't 
have such software is something I don't understand), please check 

http://securityresponse.symantec.com/avcenter/venc/data/w32.myparty@mm.html

for information on how to remove this virus. Or, update your virus 
checking software (this was newly discovered on 26 January 2002) and scan 
your computers.

  The morals of this story? Keep your anti-virus software up to date,
and never, ever open up a mystery email attachment sent by someone you
don't know.

  Dan Lorey - Feistfans-L List Owner  



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Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 09:49:47 -0800 (PST)
X-PH: V4.1@mailhub2 (Cornell Modified) 
From: Larry Scroggins <falling_98@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: ADMIN: Virus on list
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 09:49:47 -0800 (PST)
From: Larry Scroggins <falling_98@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: ADMIN: Virus on list
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

>The morals of this story? Keep your anti-virus software up to date,and
>never, ever open up a mystery email attachment sent by someone you don't
>know.Dan Lorey - Feistfans-L List Owner 

I'd love to know how anyone in this day and age with all the information
of viruses that has been out there for the last year can not be suspicious
of attachments from someone they don't know.  I even ask friends when they
send me something I'm not expecting if they meant to send it to me.  I
just can't imagine blindly opening every single attachment.  Sounds like a
good way to ruin a nice computer.

=====
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Larry Scroggins

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! 
http://auctions.yahoo.com



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Subject: Re: ADMIN: Virus on list
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*** EOOH ***
From: RavusLupus@aol.com
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 13:13:20 EST
Subject: Re: ADMIN: Virus on list
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

especially if its a .COM file when there supposed to be pictures....



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From: "Scott" <flordecor@ameritech.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
References: <20020128174947.64755.qmail@web10007.mail.yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: ADMIN: Virus on list
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 13:35:17 -0500
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Scott" <flordecor@ameritech.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: ADMIN: Virus on list
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 13:35:17 -0500
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Since these viruses send them selves to everyone in your address book I
would be cautious about attatchments from known sources more than from
strangers.  I know that I should never recieve an attatchment from this list
therefor any mail I get from here gets deleted without ever reading it.
Also my home computer has the best virus protection yet.  I have an iMac.

My personal favorite virus is this one
http://www.snopes2.com/computer/virus/sulfnbk.htm

I had a friend who came over to warn me after he finishjed deleting it in
his.  He was pretty sure that it may have already been on his system more
than two weeks because he couldn't find the e-mail that sent it to him.  He
had deleted it but didn't know how much damage he recieved already.

Scott Shablak
www.scantekdesign.com
Middletown, Ohio 45044
513-424-8446



----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry Scroggins" <falling_98@yahoo.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2002 12:49 PM
Subject: Re: ADMIN: Virus on list


> >The morals of this story? Keep your anti-virus software up to date,and
> >never, ever open up a mystery email attachment sent by someone you don't
> >know.Dan Lorey - Feistfans-L List Owner
>
> I'd love to know how anyone in this day and age with all the information
> of viruses that has been out there for the last year can not be suspicious
> of attachments from someone they don't know.  I even ask friends when they
> send me something I'm not expecting if they meant to send it to me.  I
> just can't imagine blindly opening every single attachment.  Sounds like a
> good way to ruin a nice computer.
>
> =====
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Larry Scroggins
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions!
> http://auctions.yahoo.com
>



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X-PH: V4.1@cornell.edu (Cornell Modified) 
From: "Kevin" <kevykev@sbcglobal.net>
To: "Feistfans" <Feistfans-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: VIRUS: Updating anti-virus software
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 11:03:45 -0800
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Kevin" <kevykev@sbcglobal.net>
To: "Feistfans" <Feistfans-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: VIRUS: Updating anti-virus software
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 11:03:45 -0800
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Hi Everyone,

A bit of unsolicited advice from a pc rookie: I update my anti-virus
definition software through a program called BigFix which notifies me
when an update is available. It also notifies the user of updates for
DirectX, Windows OS patches etc. Read about it and download it at
http://www.bigfix.com

                          Kev

Caution:Trust Me

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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Larry Siegel <larry@psihawk.com>
Subject: Re: VIRUS: Updating anti-virus software
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 14:36:14 -0500
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Larry Siegel <larry@psihawk.com>
Subject: Re: VIRUS: Updating anti-virus software
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

At 11:03 AM 1/28/02 -0800, you wrote:
>Hi Everyone,
>
>A bit of unsolicited advice from a pc rookie: I update my anti-virus 
>definition software through
>a program called BigFix which notifies me when an update is available. It 
>also notifies the
>user of updates for DirectX, Windows OS patches etc. Read about it and 
>download it at <http://www.bigfix.com>http://www.bigfix.com

Good.

And I am sure you're willing to pay for any machines damaged by this?
Any Virus software you purchase allows you a limited time of updates... and 
then you
can by a new version, or pay for updates.  Circumventing that... is 
pirating. and Not a good idea.

1, edited,,
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 11:58:31 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time)
From: "kevin" <kevykev@sbcglobal.net>
X-FID: FLAVOR00-NONE-0000-0000-000000000000
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To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: VIRUS: Updating anti-virus software
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

The devil is in the details I'm sure. BigFix has a relationship with McAfee,
(McAfee being a supplier) which is what I'm using. It's still early for my
free updates to expire.Your point is taken however.My point is that this
program enables those of us who are time constrained to easily keep our pc's
up to speed.



Caution:TRUST ME
-------Original Message-------
>
>From: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Date: Monday, January 28, 2002 11:42:26
>To: FEISTFANS-L
>Subject: Re: VIRUS: Updating anti-virus software
>
>At 11:03 AM 1/28/02 -0800, you wrote:
>
>Hi Everyone,
> 
>A bit of unsolicited advice from a pc rookie: I update my anti-virus
>definition software through 
>a program called BigFix which notifies me when an update is available. It
>also notifies the 
>user of updates for DirectX, Windows OS patches etc. Read about it and
>download it at http://www.bigfix.com
>
>Good.
>
>And I am sure you're willing to pay for any machines damaged by this?
>Any Virus software you purchase allows you a limited time of
>updates... and then you can by a new version, or pay for updates.
>Circumventing that... is pirating. and Not a good idea.

1,,
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From: "Marcel On the Red" <on_the_red@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: ADMIN: Virus on list
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From: "Marcel On the Red" <on_the_red@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: ADMIN: Virus on list
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 22:15:09 +0100
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Hmm rumor has it (don't know for sure). That if you add contact person with 
lastname 00 (zerozero) and firstname also 00 and NO email adres that they 
will stop the worm from sending to ALL contact persons on your list. It'll 
give a warning that the person sended a message to has no valid email adres. 
It doesn't prevent one from having the virus. but it does ??? (hopefully) 
prevent the spreading of it.

I really don't feel like testing it (GEE). but maybe it'll work.

grx,

>From: "Scott" <flordecor@ameritech.net>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
>Subject: Re: ADMIN: Virus on list
>Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 13:35:17 -0500
>
>Since these viruses send them selves to everyone in your address book I
>would be cautious about attatchments from known sources more than from
>strangers.  I know that I should never recieve an attatchment from this 
>list
>therefor any mail I get from here gets deleted without ever reading it.
>Also my home computer has the best virus protection yet.  I have an iMac.
>
>My personal favorite virus is this one
>http://www.snopes2.com/computer/virus/sulfnbk.htm
>
>I had a friend who came over to warn me after he finishjed deleting it in
>his.  He was pretty sure that it may have already been on his system more
>than two weeks because he couldn't find the e-mail that sent it to him.  He
>had deleted it but didn't know how much damage he recieved already.
>
>Scott Shablak
>www.scantekdesign.com
>Middletown, Ohio 45044
>513-424-8446
>
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Larry Scroggins" <falling_98@yahoo.com>
>To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
>Sent: Monday, January 28, 2002 12:49 PM
>Subject: Re: ADMIN: Virus on list
>
>
> > >The morals of this story? Keep your anti-virus software up to date,and
> > >never, ever open up a mystery email attachment sent by someone you 
>don't
> > >know.Dan Lorey - Feistfans-L List Owner
> >
> > I'd love to know how anyone in this day and age with all the information
> > of viruses that has been out there for the last year can not be 
>suspicious
> > of attachments from someone they don't know.  I even ask friends when 
>they
> > send me something I'm not expecting if they meant to send it to me.  I
> > just can't imagine blindly opening every single attachment.  Sounds like 
>a
> > good way to ruin a nice computer.
> >
> > =====
> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Larry Scroggins
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions!
> > http://auctions.yahoo.com
> >
>


_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx



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Subject: Re: VIRUS: Updating anti-virus software
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Andrew Scott" <a.sc0tt@attbi.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: VIRUS: Updating anti-virus software
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 13:26:26 -0800
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Larry Siegel
>
> Good.
>
> And I am sure you're willing to pay for any machines damaged by this?
> Any Virus software you purchase allows you a limited time of updates...
> and then you
> can by a new version, or pay for updates.  Circumventing that... is
> pirating. and Not a good idea.

You can always get free updates for antivirus software, the only thing the
subscription service does for NAV (example) is allow you to download
incremental updates (about 300K) automatically. Without the subscription you
can still go to the website and download the 3 meg virus definitions file
every week for free.



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From: "Scott" <flordecor@ameritech.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: ADMIN: Virus on list
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Scott" <flordecor@ameritech.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: ADMIN: Virus on list
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 17:33:12 -0500
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Here is a similar idea.  I wold imagine that both would have similar
results.
http://www.snopes2.com/computer/virus/quickfix.htm

----- Original Message -----
From: "Marcel On the Red" <on_the_red@hotmail.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2002 4:15 PM
Subject: Re: ADMIN: Virus on list


> Hmm rumor has it (don't know for sure). That if you add contact person with
> lastname 00 (zerozero) and firstname also 00 and NO email adres that they
> will stop the worm from sending to ALL contact persons on your list. It'll
> give a warning that the person sended a message to has no valid email adres.
> It doesn't prevent one from having the virus. but it does ??? (hopefully)
> prevent the spreading of it.
>
> I really don't feel like testing it (GEE). but maybe it'll work.
>
> grx,
>
> >From: "Scott" <flordecor@ameritech.net>
> >Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> >To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
> >Subject: Re: ADMIN: Virus on list
> >Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 13:35:17 -0500
> >
> >Since these viruses send them selves to everyone in your address book I
> >would be cautious about attatchments from known sources more than from
> >strangers.  I know that I should never recieve an attatchment from this
> >list
> >therefor any mail I get from here gets deleted without ever reading it.
> >Also my home computer has the best virus protection yet.  I have an iMac.
> >
> >My personal favorite virus is this one
> >http://www.snopes2.com/computer/virus/sulfnbk.htm
> >
> >I had a friend who came over to warn me after he finishjed deleting it in
> >his.  He was pretty sure that it may have already been on his system more
> >than two weeks because he couldn't find the e-mail that sent it to him. He
> >had deleted it but didn't know how much damage he recieved already.
> >
> >Scott Shablak
> >www.scantekdesign.com
> >Middletown, Ohio 45044
> >513-424-8446
> >
> >
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Larry Scroggins" <falling_98@yahoo.com>
> >To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> >Sent: Monday, January 28, 2002 12:49 PM
> >Subject: Re: ADMIN: Virus on list
> >
> >
> > > >The morals of this story? Keep your anti-virus software up to date,and
> > > >never, ever open up a mystery email attachment sent by someone you
> >don't
> > > >know.Dan Lorey - Feistfans-L List Owner
> > >
> > > I'd love to know how anyone in this day and age with all the information
> > > of viruses that has been out there for the last year can not be
> >suspicious
> > > of attachments from someone they don't know.  I even ask friends when
> >they
> > > send me something I'm not expecting if they meant to send it to me.  I
> > > just can't imagine blindly opening every single attachment.  Sounds like
> >a
> > > good way to ruin a nice computer.
> > >
> > > =====
> > > -----------------------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > > Larry Scroggins
> > >
> > > __________________________________________________
> > > Do You Yahoo!?
> > > Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions!
> > > http://auctions.yahoo.com
> > >
> >
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
> http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
>

1, edited,,
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From: "Darren McClung" <d@dwmc.org>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
References: <00aa01c1a84b$c59870c0$0301a8c0@robm>
Subject: Re: ADMIN: Virus on list
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 17:47:50 -0600
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Darren McClung" <d@dwmc.org>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: ADMIN: Virus on list
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 17:47:50 -0600
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Uhh...  whatever happened to  just not opening strange attachments?

Darren

--------

Here is a similar idea.  I wold imagine that both would have similar
results.
http://www.snopes2.com/computer/virus/quickfix.htm

----- Original Message -----
From: "Marcel On the Red" <on_the_red@hotmail.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2002 4:15 PM
Subject: Re: ADMIN: Virus on list


> Hmm rumor has it (don't know for sure). That if you add contact person with
> lastname 00 (zerozero) and firstname also 00 and NO email adres that they
> will stop the worm from sending to ALL contact persons on your list. It'll
> give a warning that the person sended a message to has no valid email adres.
> It doesn't prevent one from having the virus. but it does ??? (hopefully)
> prevent the spreading of it.
>
> I really don't feel like testing it (GEE). but maybe it'll work.
>
> grx,
>
> >From: "Scott" <flordecor@ameritech.net>
> >Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> >To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
> >Subject: Re: ADMIN: Virus on list
> >Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 13:35:17 -0500
> >
> >Since these viruses send them selves to everyone in your address book I
> >would be cautious about attatchments from known sources more than from
> >strangers.  I know that I should never recieve an attatchment from this
> >list
> >therefor any mail I get from here gets deleted without ever reading it.
> >Also my home computer has the best virus protection yet.  I have an iMac.
> >
> >My personal favorite virus is this one
> >http://www.snopes2.com/computer/virus/sulfnbk.htm
> >
> >I had a friend who came over to warn me after he finishjed deleting it in
> >his.  He was pretty sure that it may have already been on his system more
> >than two weeks because he couldn't find the e-mail that sent it to him. He
> >had deleted it but didn't know how much damage he recieved already.
> >
> >Scott Shablak
> >www.scantekdesign.com
> >Middletown, Ohio 45044
> >513-424-8446
> >
> >
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Larry Scroggins" <falling_98@yahoo.com>
> >To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> >Sent: Monday, January 28, 2002 12:49 PM
> >Subject: Re: ADMIN: Virus on list
> >
> >
> > > >The morals of this story? Keep your anti-virus software up to date,and
> > > >never, ever open up a mystery email attachment sent by someone you
> >don't
> > > >know.Dan Lorey - Feistfans-L List Owner
> > >
> > > I'd love to know how anyone in this day and age with all the information
> > > of viruses that has been out there for the last year can not be
> >suspicious
> > > of attachments from someone they don't know.  I even ask friends when
> >they
> > > send me something I'm not expecting if they meant to send it to me.  I
> > > just can't imagine blindly opening every single attachment.  Sounds like
> >a
> > > good way to ruin a nice computer.
> > >
> > > =====
> > > -----------------------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > > Larry Scroggins
> > >
> > > __________________________________________________
> > > Do You Yahoo!?
> > > Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions!
> > > http://auctions.yahoo.com
> > >
> >
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
> http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
>



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 16:56:19 -0700
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: ADMIN: Virus on list
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Darren McClung wrote:
> 
> Uhh...  whatever happened to  just not opening strange attachments?

What about just not keeping a bloody address book? :)
That's my easy solution: keep the addresses separate altogether from the
mailing program (ie, I keep a list in a .doc file).

Oh, another good reason to use Netscape: attachments aren't
automatically run when you're stuck downloading 'em :)

Craig J. Ries



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From: Tim Nicholas <tim@nicholas.net.nz>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: ADMIN: Virus on list
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 13:16:06 +1300
From: Tim Nicholas <tim@nicholas.net.nz>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: ADMIN: Virus on list
User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i
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There are some viruses which can be activated without opening them!
That was the case a while ago anyway. I am sure that if you have an
apropriatly updated/configured/uninstalled Outlook then your ok. 

It amazes me that so many people still run Outlook. I can understand
in a large office enviroment, as Outlook (when combined with
exchange) has a lot of interesting/useful features for that
situation. For home use though its not the best option. 

Tim

PS. I'm sitting here being careful not to glote about using Linux,
but it's hard.... real hard. (not gloting that is <g>)


On Mon, Jan 28, 2002 at 05:47:50PM -0600, Darren McClung wrote:
> Uhh...  whatever happened to  just not opening strange attachments?
> 
> Darren
> 
 

-- 
Tim Nicholas                          ||                      Cilix
Email: tim@nicholas.net.nz            ||              ICQ# 15869961
http://tim.nicholas.net.nz/           ||       Dunedin, New Zealand
"Grow up, Larry. You give me too much credit." - Linus Torvalds



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From: Bret Robideaux <bretr@alliances.org>
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References: <00aa01c1a84b$c59870c0$0301a8c0@robm> <00bb01c1a856$324b6420$0200a8c0@zaknafein> <20020129131606.A11426@nicholas.net.nz>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 20:52:16 -0600
From: Bret Robideaux <bretr@alliances.org>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:0.9.4) Gecko/20011019 Netscape6/6.2
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: ADMIN: Virus on list
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Well, don't glo_A_t too much, you forgot to install a spell checker *grin*

Bret (using Linux, almost exclusively, for over 6 years now)

Tim Nicholas wrote:

> There are some viruses which can be activated without opening them!
> That was the case a while ago anyway. I am sure that if you have an
> apropriatly updated/configured/uninstalled Outlook then your ok. 
> 
> It amazes me that so many people still run Outlook. I can understand
> in a large office enviroment, as Outlook (when combined with
> exchange) has a lot of interesting/useful features for that
> situation. For home use though its not the best option. 
> 
> Tim
> 
> PS. I'm sitting here being careful not to glote about using Linux,
> but it's hard.... real hard. (not gloting that is <g>)
> 
> 
> On Mon, Jan 28, 2002 at 05:47:50PM -0600, Darren McClung wrote:
> 
>>Uhh...  whatever happened to  just not opening strange attachments?
>>
>>Darren
>>
>>
>  
> 
> 



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From: "Joe S." <diamondjoesmith@yahoo.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: ADMIN: Virus on list
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 01:28:35 -0600
Organization: Elite Communications
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Joe S." <diamondjoesmith@yahoo.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: ADMIN: Virus on list
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 01:28:35 -0600
Organization: Elite Communications
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I use outlook, because, quite frankly, it allows proper integration with
my Palm Pilot. I would rather not use a separate program for my
calendar, contact list, email, notes, etc.

I have both my TrueSync for my cell phone, and my Palm Pilot doing
synchronizations, until you can find me another product that will do
everything I need to in one program, please don't presume to tell me
what is and isn't proper for me to use at home.

I have AntiVirus, ZoneAlarm, and a firewall all running on my computer.
People will always find ways to get around whatever security measures
are installed. It's just a matter of keeping up with the fixes. The only
real way to be sure not to get a virus or hacked is to not ever connect
your computer to the internet, and never put any disks into it that were
in a computer attached to the internet. 

Joseph Smith

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu 
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Tim Nicholas
> Sent: Monday, January 28, 2002 6:16 PM
> To: FEISTFANS-L
> Subject: Re: ADMIN: Virus on list
> 
> 
> There are some viruses which can be activated without opening 
> them! That was the case a while ago anyway. I am sure that if 
> you have an apropriatly updated/configured/uninstalled 
> Outlook then your ok. 
> 
> It amazes me that so many people still run Outlook. I can 
> understand in a large office enviroment, as Outlook (when 
> combined with
> exchange) has a lot of interesting/useful features for that 
> situation. For home use though its not the best option. 
> 
> Tim
> 
> PS. I'm sitting here being careful not to glote about using 
> Linux, but it's hard.... real hard. (not gloting that is <g>)
> 
> 
> On Mon, Jan 28, 2002 at 05:47:50PM -0600, Darren McClung wrote:
> > Uhh...  whatever happened to  just not opening strange attachments?
> > 
> > Darren
> > 
>  
> 
> -- 
> Tim Nicholas                          ||                      Cilix
> Email: tim@nicholas.net.nz            ||              ICQ# 15869961
> http://tim.nicholas.net.nz/           ||       Dunedin, New Zealand
> "Grow up, Larry. You give me too much credit." - Linus Torvalds
> 



_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com



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From: Tim Nicholas <tim@nicholas.net.nz>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: ADMIN: Virus on list
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 21:16:03 +1300
From: Tim Nicholas <tim@nicholas.net.nz>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: ADMIN: Virus on list
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On Tue, Jan 29, 2002 at 01:28:35AM -0600, Joe S. wrote:
> I use outlook, because, quite frankly, it allows proper integration with
> my Palm Pilot. I would rather not use a separate program for my
> calendar, contact list, email, notes, etc.

Yeah, sorry that I implied you shouldn't use it. What I meant to say
was that for _most_ people, there are other tools which better/more
securely fit their needs.  For people like you (who I would call - to
make this post Buzz-Word compliant - a Power User) Outlook is a
valid and appropriate choice. But, as I am sure you know, you are
not an average user.

> 
> I have both my TrueSync for my cell phone, and my Palm Pilot doing
> synchronizations, until you can find me another product that will do
> everything I need to in one program, please don't presume to tell me
> what is and isn't proper for me to use at home.

Having not had use for synchronisation tools, I will trust that you
are right. It is no surprise to me that it is the case. 

I mostly only pay attention to Linux/UNIX software, the project
which I know of that is likely to do what you do with Outlook is
'Evolution'. I don't know if there is a windows version, and I
imagine you are happy with what you have now.

> 
> I have AntiVirus, ZoneAlarm, and a firewall all running on my computer.
> People will always find ways to get around whatever security measures
> are installed. It's just a matter of keeping up with the fixes. The only
> real way to be sure not to get a virus or hacked is to not ever connect
> your computer to the internet, and never put any disks into it that were
> in a computer attached to the internet. 
> 

I agree. Security is always relative, and the cliche (sp?) that
``security is a process, not a product'' is most definitely true. Of
course the process is a more active process with some products than
with others.

To clarify, I was not so much telling you (or anyone else) what to
use, as expressing an opinion. Sorry that it wasn't clearly
expressed.

Yours,

Tim

> Joseph Smith
>
 

-- 
Tim Nicholas                          ||                      Cilix
Email: tim@nicholas.net.nz            ||              ICQ# 15869961
http://tim.nicholas.net.nz/           ||       Dunedin, New Zealand
"Grow up, Larry. You give me too much credit." - Linus Torvalds



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*** EOOH ***
From: "Donal K. Fellows" <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: ADMIN: Virus on list
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 11:02:57 +0000
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"Marcel On the Red" <on_the_red@hotmail.com>
> Hmm rumor has it (don't know for sure). That if you add contact person with 
> lastname 00 (zerozero) and firstname also 00 and NO email adres that they 
> will stop the worm from sending to ALL contact persons on your list. It'll 
> give a warning that the person sended a message to has no valid email adres. 
> It doesn't prevent one from having the virus. but it does ??? (hopefully) 
> prevent the spreading of it.
> 
> I really don't feel like testing it (GEE). but maybe it'll work.

While there might be viruses/worms out there which are affected by
this sort of trick, I *really* wouldn't count on it.  Instead, make
sure your version of Outlook is properly up to date (I've heard
rumours that MS have finally got on top of the problem), invest in
antivirus software, and don't open attachments unless you are sure you
know what they are.  Disabling the reading HTML mail (if you can) is a
good idea too, as I've seen some nasty stuff trying to get in there.

At this point I could rant on a bit about security, but I won't.  <g>

Donal.
-- 
Donal K. Fellows, Department of Computer Science, University of Manchester, UK.
(work) fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk     Tel: +44-161-275-6137  (preferred email addr.)
(home) donal@ugglan.demon.co.uk  Tel: +44-1274-401017   Mobile: +44-7957-298955
http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~fellowsd/  (Don't quote my .sig; I've seen it before!)



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References: <00aa01c1a84b$c59870c0$0301a8c0@robm> <00bb01c1a856$324b6420$0200a8c0@zaknafein> <20020129131606.A11426@nicholas.net.nz>
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James E.Roberts" <jroberts6@vtown.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: ADMIN: Virus on list
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 22:02:14 +1100
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Glote all you want, I have built a bridge (and I'm over it).

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Tim Nicholas" <tim@nicholas.net.nz>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2002 11:16 AM
Subject: Re: ADMIN: Virus on list


> There are some viruses which can be activated without opening them!
> That was the case a while ago anyway. I am sure that if you have an
> apropriatly updated/configured/uninstalled Outlook then your ok. 
> 
> It amazes me that so many people still run Outlook. I can understand
> in a large office enviroment, as Outlook (when combined with
> exchange) has a lot of interesting/useful features for that
> situation. For home use though its not the best option. 
> 
> Tim
> 
> PS. I'm sitting here being careful not to glote about using Linux,
> but it's hard.... real hard. (not gloting that is <g>)
> 
> 
> On Mon, Jan 28, 2002 at 05:47:50PM -0600, Darren McClung wrote:
> > Uhh...  whatever happened to  just not opening strange attachments?
> > 
> > Darren
> > 
>  
> 
> -- 
> Tim Nicholas                          ||                      Cilix
> Email: tim@nicholas.net.nz            ||              ICQ# 15869961
> http://tim.nicholas.net.nz/           ||       Dunedin, New Zealand
> "Grow up, Larry. You give me too much credit." - Linus Torvalds
> 



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From: "Syrion Hall of Worlds" <how_news@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Murder In LaMut - A Crydee.com update
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 12:35:03 +0000
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*** EOOH ***
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From: "Syrion Hall of Worlds" <how_news@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Murder In LaMut - A Crydee.com update
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>Yeah, I still use Communicator 4.78, and I refuse to upgrade beyond
>that...

Maybe that's the last good version of Navigator. Back in 95 (when I started 
HTML) I allways took the Netscape tags, but since Aol bought it and 
Navigator became worser then IE I switched to IE tags.

Anyway: I think we'd better quit this browser discussion and go back to the 
original topic.


Nice feature, John! :D

Tjeerd "Syrion" van Sas
http://www.hallofworlds.net
http://feist.hallofworlds.net

_________________________________________________________________
Meld je aan bij de grootste e-mailservice wereldwijd met MSN Hotmail: 
http://www.hotmail.com/nl



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From: "Tjeerd aka Syrion" <how_news@hotmail.com>
To: feistfans-l@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Further exploration of Midkemia
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 13:21:55 +0000
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*** EOOH ***
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From: "Tjeerd aka Syrion" <how_news@hotmail.com>
To: feistfans-l@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Further exploration of Midkemia
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 13:21:55 +0000
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Hello all!

Some other Dutch fans and I are wondering if there will be books about other 
parts of the Kingdom (like the eastern provinces) or Kesh?

I know that a part of Kesh is explored in Prince of the Blood, but I think 
there are more people who would like to know more about it.

We don't expect a Midkemian version of Tolkien's Silmarillion, but some more 
info would be nice. :)

Greetings,

Tjeerd "Syrion" van Sas
http://www.hallofworlds.net
http://feist.hallofworlds.net

_________________________________________________________________
Chat on line met vrienden en probeer MSN Messenger uit: 
http://messenger.msn.nl/



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From: "Donal K. Fellows" <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk>
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Donal K. Fellows" <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Further exploration of Midkemia
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 13:36:09 +0000
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"Tjeerd aka Syrion" <how_news@hotmail.com>
> Some other Dutch fans and I are wondering if there will be books about other 
> parts of the Kingdom (like the eastern provinces) or Kesh?

The next series of books to be published in English (starting with
_Talon of the Silver Hawk_) will be set in the East.  I've no idea
about how long it will take before a translation gets done...

Donal.
-- 
Donal K. Fellows, Department of Computer Science, University of Manchester, UK.
(work) fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk     Tel: +44-161-275-6137  (preferred email addr.)
(home) donal@ugglan.demon.co.uk  Tel: +44-1274-401017   Mobile: +44-7957-298955
http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~fellowsd/  (Don't quote my .sig; I've seen it before!)



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Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 05:48:31 -0800 (PST)
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From: Nathan <nathan@irish4ever.com>
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Subject: Re: Murder In LaMut - A Crydee.com update
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 05:48:31 -0800 (PST)
From: Nathan <nathan@irish4ever.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Murder In LaMut - A Crydee.com update
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I repeat my question. Where are those pictures from "Murder in LaMut"
at crydee.com? There aren't any in "Book covers" section.

Father Nathan


_____________________________________________________________
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Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 09:19:55 -0500
Subject: Re: Murder In LaMut - A Crydee.com update
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 09:19:55 -0500
Subject: Re: Murder In LaMut - A Crydee.com update
From: Bob Montgomery <dante@kingcon.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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Here's the direct link:

http://www.crydee.com/feist/geofftaylor/mil.htm

It's listed on the front page in the news...

On Tuesday, January 29, 2002, at 08:48 AM, Nathan wrote:

>
> I repeat my question. Where are those pictures from "Murder in LaMut" 
> at crydee.com? There aren't any in "Book covers" section.
>
> Father Nathan
>
>
> _____________________________________________________________
> Get your Free, Permanent, and Private Irish Email Today!
> ---------- http://www.irish4ever.com -----------
>
>

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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 07:30:08 -0800
Subject: Re: Further exploration of Midkemia
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
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On Tuesday, January 29, 2002, at 05:36 AM, Donal K. Fellows wrote:

> "Tjeerd aka Syrion" <how_news@hotmail.com>
>> Some other Dutch fans and I are wondering if there will be books about 
>> other
>> parts of the Kingdom (like the eastern provinces) or Kesh?
>
> The next series of books to be published in English (starting with
> _Talon of the Silver Hawk_) will be set in the East.  I've no idea
> about how long it will take before a translation gets done...
>

Knowing Jacques Post at Mullerhof, the Dutch will probably be the first 
translation.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 12:49:01 -0300
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From: Javier Dussaillant <ashkar@vrweb.cl>
Subject: Speaking of translations... (Was: Further exploration of Midkemia)
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 12:49:01 -0300
From: Javier Dussaillant <ashkar@vrweb.cl>
Subject: Speaking of translations... (Was: Further exploration of Midkemia)
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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At 07:30 AM 1/29/2002 -0800, you wrote:

>On Tuesday, January 29, 2002, at 05:36 AM, Donal K. Fellows wrote:
>
>>"Tjeerd aka Syrion" <how_news@hotmail.com>
>>>Some other Dutch fans and I are wondering if there will be books about other
>>>parts of the Kingdom (like the eastern provinces) or Kesh?
>>
>>The next series of books to be published in English (starting with
>>_Talon of the Silver Hawk_) will be set in the East.  I've no idea
>>about how long it will take before a translation gets done...
>
>Knowing Jacques Post at Mullerhof, the Dutch will probably be the first 
>translation.

Hmm.... no news about any other of your books (besides Faerie Tale) being 
translated to Spanish? :)

>Best, R.E.F.
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
>stupidity.

         Saludos,

                 Javier Dussaillant G.
                 ashkar@vrweb.cl
                 Departamento de Desarrollo VRWEB ltda.
                 http://www.vrweb.cl



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From: "Tjeerd aka Syrion" <how_news@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re: Further exploration of Midkemia
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*** EOOH ***
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From: "Tjeerd aka Syrion" <how_news@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Further exploration of Midkemia
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Thanks for the reply! :)
We have several American and British Bookstores over here, so I expect it to 
read it soon after the release.

Greetings,
Tjeerd


>From: "Donal K. Fellows" <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
>Subject: Re: Further exploration of Midkemia
>Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 13:36:09 +0000
>
>"Tjeerd aka Syrion" <how_news@hotmail.com>
> > Some other Dutch fans and I are wondering if there will be books about 
>other
> > parts of the Kingdom (like the eastern provinces) or Kesh?
>
>The next series of books to be published in English (starting with
>_Talon of the Silver Hawk_) will be set in the East.  I've no idea
>about how long it will take before a translation gets done...
>
>Donal.
>--
>Donal K. Fellows, Department of Computer Science, University of Manchester, 
>UK.
>(work) fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk     Tel: +44-161-275-6137  (preferred email 
>addr.)
>(home) donal@ugglan.demon.co.uk  Tel: +44-1274-401017   Mobile: 
>+44-7957-298955
>http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~fellowsd/  (Don't quote my .sig; I've seen it 
>before!)
>


_________________________________________________________________
Download MSN Explorer gratis van http://explorer.msn.nl/intl.asp.



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Thanks for the reply! :)
By the way: your Dutch publisher is named Meulenhoff. ;)

Greetings,
Tjeerd

>Knowing Jacques Post at Mullerhof, the Dutch will probably be the first
>translation.
>
>Best, R.E.F.


_________________________________________________________________
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Subject: Re: Speaking of translations... (Was: Further exploration of Midkemia)
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Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 10:16:33 -0800
Subject: Re: Speaking of translations... (Was: Further exploration of Midkemia)
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
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On Tuesday, January 29, 2002, at 07:49 AM, Javier Dussaillant wrote:

> At 07:30 AM 1/29/2002 -0800, you wrote:
>
>> On Tuesday, January 29, 2002, at 05:36 AM, Donal K. Fellows wrote:
>>
>>> "Tjeerd aka Syrion" <how_news@hotmail.com>
>>>> Some other Dutch fans and I are wondering if there will be books 
>>>> about other
>>>> parts of the Kingdom (like the eastern provinces) or Kesh?
>>>
>>> The next series of books to be published in English (starting with
>>> _Talon of the Silver Hawk_) will be set in the East.  I've no idea
>>> about how long it will take before a translation gets done...
>>
>> Knowing Jacques Post at Mullerhof, the Dutch will probably be the 
>> first translation.
>
> Hmm.... no news about any other of your books (besides Faerie Tale) 
> being translated to Spanish? :)

Spanish and Portuguese both have lagged among European languages.  Don't 
know why.

Best, R.E.F.



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Ouch! Bummer! :(

You'd better contact the publisher of Fairy Tale about that. I think they 
know more about it then Mr. Feist or his agent.

>Hmm.... no news about any other of your books (besides Faerie Tale) being
>translated to Spanish? :)

Greetings,

Tjeerd

_________________________________________________________________
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Subject: Re: Murder In LaMut - A Crydee.com update
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 09:16:53 +1300
From: Tim Nicholas <tim@nicholas.net.nz>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Murder In LaMut - A Crydee.com update
User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i
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Why not code only using the official tags? You can do almost
everything with the html 4.01 and CSS (cascading style sheets)
specs. If you do, then it should work well in all browsers,
including the odd ones that you don't have access to. (and if it
doen't, then you are safe to say that its the browsers fault, rather
than the fault of your code.)
There are even tools for 'certifing' html. 

http://www.w3.org/
http://validator.w3.org/

Tim

On Tue, Jan 29, 2002 at 12:35:03PM +0000, Syrion Hall of Worlds wrote:
> >Yeah, I still use Communicator 4.78, and I refuse to upgrade beyond
> >that...
> 
> Maybe that's the last good version of Navigator. Back in 95 (when I started 
> HTML) I allways took the Netscape tags, but since Aol bought it and 
> Navigator became worser then IE I switched to IE tags.
> 
> Anyway: I think we'd better quit this browser discussion and go back to the 
> original topic.
> 
> 
> Nice feature, John! :D
> 
> Tjeerd "Syrion" van Sas
> http://www.hallofworlds.net
> http://feist.hallofworlds.net
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Meld je aan bij de grootste e-mailservice wereldwijd met MSN Hotmail: 
> http://www.hotmail.com/nl
> 

-- 
Tim Nicholas                          ||                      Cilix
Email: tim@nicholas.net.nz            ||              ICQ# 15869961
http://tim.nicholas.net.nz/           ||       Dunedin, New Zealand
"Grow up, Larry. You give me too much credit." - Linus Torvalds



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Subject: Re: Murder In LaMut - A Crydee.com update
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Even CSS will be ruined by Netscape. :(

Anyway: thanks for those links!

Tjeerd


>From: Tim Nicholas <tim@nicholas.net.nz>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
>Subject: Re: Murder In LaMut - A Crydee.com update
>Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 09:16:53 +1300
>
>Why not code only using the official tags? You can do almost
>everything with the html 4.01 and CSS (cascading style sheets)
>specs. If you do, then it should work well in all browsers,
>including the odd ones that you don't have access to. (and if it
>doen't, then you are safe to say that its the browsers fault, rather
>than the fault of your code.)
>There are even tools for 'certifing' html.
>
>http://www.w3.org/
>http://validator.w3.org/
>
>Tim


_________________________________________________________________
Meld je aan bij de grootste e-mailservice wereldwijd met MSN Hotmail: 
http://www.hotmail.com/nl



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From: Kenneth Jones <killkenny@thos.co.za>
Subject: My Site
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Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 14:03:00 +0200
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Kenneth Jones <killkenny@thos.co.za>
Subject: My Site
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Hi Ray.

I am in the process of building a Ray Feist dedicated site.

Do you know if I can use the book cover art etc, to make the look and feel 
for the site? Or do I need to do some copyright stuff with either you or 
the artists?

Thanks a lot for your help.

Regards,
Kenneth Jones

PS: I hope you like it when it goes up. {:-)



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From: "Susan" <susanandderek@freemail.absa.co.za>
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Subject: New Fan
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 22:06:47 +0200
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From: "Susan" <susanandderek@freemail.absa.co.za>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: New Fan
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 22:06:47 +0200
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Good evening all

The name is Derek and I'm from South Africa. I am new to the internet and
e-mail and obviously FEISTFANS. A couple of months ago I had the honour of
reading, Magician-Revised Edition, and was immediately hooked ; line and
sinker. My fiance nearly killed me when I went and spent 3/4 of my salary,
because of our pathetic currency, and bought every avaliable Feist book,
which I finished in 26 days, Rage of the Demon King taking 11.5 hours from
5:00 pm to 4:30 am, without a break. Tolkien has nothing on Mr. Feist. I'm
not sure how long these e-mails are supposed to be but I have a couple of
questions which I hope wiil be answered. 1) Is it Mr.Feist who answers the
e-mails or is somebody writing on his behalf ? 2) Shards ends where Pug
calls his group the "Conclave of Shadows", who are to oppose the Nameless
One. Are there books to follow or is that it ? 3) Could somebody please send
me a list of all his avaliable and upcoming books, because I dont know if I
have them all.
Lastly if it is Mr. Feist who answers the e-mails; you Sir are a genius and
comparing you to Tolkien is like comparing the bible to a Clive Barker
novel.



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From: Larry Siegel <larry@psihawk.com>
Subject: Re: New Fan
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Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 15:45:26 -0500
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Larry Siegel <larry@psihawk.com>
Subject: Re: New Fan
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Hey Derek... And welcome to the list...

Yes its Ray himself answering... although... I guarantee you will
get one reply saying its a rotating fan every week taking turns pretending 
to be Ray :)

There is a FAQ available at http://www.psihawk.com/feist
As well as many other sites which have answers to your questions such as 
http://www.crydee.com



Larry

My Homepage
http://www.psihawk.com

Raymond E. Feist FAQ
http://www.psihawk.com/feist



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Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 12:51:24 -0800
Subject: Re: New Fan
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Wednesday, January 30, 2002, at 12:06 PM, Susan wrote:

> Good evening all
>
> The name is Derek and I'm from South Africa. I am new to the internet 
> and
> e-mail and obviously FEISTFANS. A couple of months ago I had the honour 
> of
> reading, Magician-Revised Edition, and was immediately hooked ; line and
> sinker. My fiance nearly killed me when I went and spent 3/4 of my 
> salary,
> because of our pathetic currency, and bought every avaliable Feist book,
> which I finished in 26 days, Rage of the Demon King taking 11.5 hours 
> from
> 5:00 pm to 4:30 am, without a break. Tolkien has nothing on Mr. Feist. 
> I'm
> not sure how long these e-mails are supposed to be but I have a couple 
> of
> questions which I hope wiil be answered. 1) Is it Mr.Feist who answers 
> the
> e-mails or is somebody writing on his behalf ? 2) Shards ends where Pug
> calls his group the "Conclave of Shadows", who are to oppose the 
> Nameless
> One. Are there books to follow or is that it ? 3) Could somebody please 
> send
> me a list of all his avaliable and upcoming books, because I dont know 
> if I
> have them all.
> Lastly if it is Mr. Feist who answers the e-mails; you Sir are a genius 
> and
> comparing you to Tolkien is like comparing the bible to a Clive Barker
> novel.
>
>
>
>

Thanks, but I reserve the "genius" label for guys like Einstein, 
Beethoven, and Twain.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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From: "Andrew Nichols" <gnomishmango@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: "one who stands between worlds"
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 12:44:32 +1000
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From: "Andrew Nichols" <gnomishmango@hotmail.com>
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Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 12:44:32 +1000
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Hello everybody,

Has Mr Feist ever given the ancient Tsurani translation for "one who stands 
between worlds"? I'm not one of those people who read the appendices in 
Tolkien's books and try to learn elvish and stuff like that. But for some 
reason it's always intrigued me as to Pug's 'true' name. That little line by 
Hocho or whoever about the name giving someone power over him... argh! 
Anyway, I've tried searching the database but only found headaches so does 
anyone know if this has been asked before and if not (unlikely) would Mr 
Feist be so kind as to answer? Just make something up if you like and only 
those on the list will know...<insane gleam in eyes>...

Thanks,
AndrewN



_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com



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From: "Tjeerd aka Syrion" <how_news@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: My Site
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 03:24:00 +0000
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Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 03:24:00 +0000
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Hello!

I'm not Ray, but I asked about using the cover art for a site of mine of 
another author at the publisher. And they told me I had to write a request 
per snail mail. However, it was over in the Netherlands. I dunno how the 
American law is.

Greetings,

Tjeerd


>From: Kenneth Jones <killkenny@thos.co.za>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
>Subject: My Site
>Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 14:03:00 +0200
>
>Hi Ray.
>
>I am in the process of building a Ray Feist dedicated site.
>
>Do you know if I can use the book cover art etc, to make the look and feel
>for the site? Or do I need to do some copyright stuff with either you or
>the artists?
>
>Thanks a lot for your help.
>
>Regards,
>Kenneth Jones
>
>PS: I hope you like it when it goes up. {:-)
>


_________________________________________________________________
Meld je aan bij de grootste e-mailservice wereldwijd met MSN Hotmail: 
http://www.hotmail.com/nl



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Subject: Re: "one who stands between worlds"
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Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 21:26:44 -0800
Subject: Re: "one who stands between worlds"
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Wednesday, January 30, 2002, at 06:44 PM, Andrew Nichols wrote:

> Hello everybody,
>
> Has Mr Feist ever given the ancient Tsurani translation for "one who 
> stands between worlds"? I'm not one of those people who read the 
> appendices in Tolkien's books and try to learn elvish and stuff like 
> that. But for some reason it's always intrigued me as to Pug's 'true' 
> name. That little line by Hocho or whoever about the name giving 
> someone power over him... argh! Anyway, I've tried searching the 
> database but only found headaches so does anyone know if this has been 
> asked before and if not (unlikely) would Mr Feist be so kind as to 
> answer? Just make something up if you like and only those on the list 
> will know...<insane gleam in eyes>...
>

I've never made up the word that translates to "one who stands between 
worlds," if that's what you're asking.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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From: "Alan McGuinness" <gabrulz511@hotmail.com>
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Subject: I am new to this list - Hi =)
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 16:39:28 +1100
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From: "Alan McGuinness" <gabrulz511@hotmail.com>
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Subject: I am new to this list - Hi =)
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 16:39:28 +1100
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Hi there everyone :)

My name is Alan McGuinness, and I'm new to this great list. I thought I 
should say hi.

I have been a Feist fan for years - and his books are still my favouite! 
Magician (revised edition) is my favouite novel of all time, and I have 
recently finished reading "Honoured Enemy". I absolutely loved it, as I felt 
really nostalgic after finishing the short story in "Legends": "Wood Boy". 
Revisiting the Riftwar is a great idea, and i eagerly await the next novels 
in the series.

One thing I love about the Midkemia novels, is that they aren't all along 
the same lines, for example - "Rise of a Merchant Prince" is a business 
intrigue.

So - if Mr Feist reads this, I'd just like to say that I have read every 
single novel, and I hope there are many more to come yet. Im sure you hear 
this all the time, but you are a fantastic and versatile author, and I 
salute you :)

I have one question to ask: Does anyone know if any new novels will have Pug 
as a major player again? He is my favourite caharacter.

Thanx a lot, (Sorry for the length of my email)

Alan


_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com



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*** EOOH ***
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Hey Ray, always wondered your spirit of choice... Thats it

Mik

_________________________________________________________________
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http://www.hotmail.com



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Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 22:53:36 -0800 (PST)
From: Kervyn Cloete <murf_seed@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: New Fan
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Hey There!

I thought I was the only South African on the list.
Where do you live? Im in Cape Town.

-Kervyn

mail: murf_seed@yahoo.com

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! 
http://auctions.yahoo.com



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Hi There,

Another South African from Gauteng!

Regards


> 
> Kervyn Cloete 
> <murf_seed@yahoo.com>      To:     FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L) 
>                            cc: 
> Sent by:                   Subject:     Re: New Fan 
> owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu 
> 
> 
> 01/31/02 08:53 AM 
> Please respond to 
> FEISTFANS-L 
> 
> 
>
>
>
>
>Hey There!
>
>I thought I was the only South African on the list.
>Where do you live? Im in Cape Town.
>
>-Kervyn
>
>mail: murf_seed@yahoo.com
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions!
>http://auctions.yahoo.com
>






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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 09:07:58 +0200
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Kenneth Jones <killkenny@thos.co.za>
Subject: Re: New Fan
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I'm also from SA. I think there are quite a few of us on the list. Just 
most are lurking in the background.

At 10:53 PM 1/30/02 -0800, you wrote:
>Hey There!
>
>I thought I was the only South African on the list.
>Where do you live? Im in Cape Town.
>
>-Kervyn
>
>mail: murf_seed@yahoo.com
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions!
>http://auctions.yahoo.com



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From: Magdel Purcock <MPurcock@autopage.co.za>
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From: Magdel Purcock <MPurcock@autopage.co.za>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: New Fan
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 10:24:34 +0200
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I am also from SA  - JHB
Magdel

-----Original Message-----
>From: Kervyn Cloete [mailto:murf_seed@yahoo.com]
>Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2002 8:54 AM
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: Re: New Fan
>
>
>Hey There!
>
>I thought I was the only South African on the list.
>Where do you live? Im in Cape Town.
>
>-Kervyn
>
>mail: murf_seed@yahoo.com
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! 
>http://auctions.yahoo.com
>


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From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
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On Wednesday, January 30, 2002, at 10:21 PM, Michael Glynn wrote:

> Hey Ray, always wondered your spirit of choice... Thats it
>
>

Single malt scotch.  Usually Glenfidditch (12 years), but occasionally 
others.  And wine, from just about anywhere if it's good.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Ack,

you can tell your not Scottish you call it Scotch not Whiskey.

I find Glenmorrangie (I think I have spelt that wrong but never mind) is a
better malt.

James :-)
___________________________________________________________
___________________________________________________________

My mind is the centre of the universe and you are all but dreams!

Please check out the following sites:

http://www.active-data-solutions.co.uk
http://www.unholycrusade.co.uk

----- Original Message -----
From: "Raymond Feist" <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2002 9:08 AM
Subject: Re:


>
> On Wednesday, January 30, 2002, at 10:21 PM, Michael Glynn wrote:
>
> > Hey Ray, always wondered your spirit of choice... Thats it
> >
> >
>
> Single malt scotch.  Usually Glenfidditch (12 years), but occasionally
> others.  And wine, from just about anywhere if it's good.
>
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
>
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
> stupidity.
>
>



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From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
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On Thursday, January 31, 2002, at 02:59 AM, James Culshaw wrote:

> Ack,
>
> you can tell your not Scottish you call it Scotch not Whiskey.
>
> I find Glenmorrangie (I think I have spelt that wrong but never mind) 
> is a
> better malt.
>

Here in the States we have Bourbon Whiskey (Kentuckey) and Tennessee 
Whiskey (Jack Daniel's, George Dickey, etc.) Canadian Whiskey (Seven 
Crowns, Black Velvet, etc.; blended Rye Whiskey), straight Rye Whiskey,  
and Scotch Whiskey, hence the differentiation.

They all have their significant qualities; Glenmorranghie is sweeter 
than Glenfiddich, while Talisker is dryer, though they are all very 
similar, especially if you compare them to some of the very smoky malts 
like Oban or Laphroig.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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We have three whiskeys - Malt, Grain, and Blended.
The others such as Jack Daniels etc I am not sure that they are thought as
anything other than their brand name - that was certainly the case in my
town.

James :-)
___________________________________________________________
___________________________________________________________

My mind is the centre of the universe and you are all but dreams!

Please check out the following sites:

http://dotnet.securedomains.com/krondor/index.aspx
http://www.active-data-solutions.co.uk
http://www.unholycrusade.co.uk

----- Original Message -----
From: "Raymond Feist" <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2002 3:00 PM
Subject: Re:


>
> On Thursday, January 31, 2002, at 02:59 AM, James Culshaw wrote:
>
> > Ack,
> >
> > you can tell your not Scottish you call it Scotch not Whiskey.
> >
> > I find Glenmorrangie (I think I have spelt that wrong but never mind)
> > is a
> > better malt.
> >
>
> Here in the States we have Bourbon Whiskey (Kentuckey) and Tennessee
> Whiskey (Jack Daniel's, George Dickey, etc.) Canadian Whiskey (Seven
> Crowns, Black Velvet, etc.; blended Rye Whiskey), straight Rye Whiskey,
> and Scotch Whiskey, hence the differentiation.
>
> They all have their significant qualities; Glenmorranghie is sweeter
> than Glenfiddich, while Talisker is dryer, though they are all very
> similar, especially if you compare them to some of the very smoky malts
> like Oban or Laphroig.
>
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
>
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
> stupidity.
>
>



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On Thursday, January 31, 2002, at 07:32 AM, James Culshaw wrote:

> We have three whiskeys - Malt, Grain, and Blended.
> The others such as Jack Daniels etc I am not sure that they are thought 
> as
> anything other than their brand name - that was certainly the case in my
> town.
>
> James :-)
>

Jack Daniels is a Tennessee Whiskey, which means it's a sour mash.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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From: Dun Xiahou <xiahoudun13@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re:
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
In-Reply-To: <4BE955C7-165B-11D6-BCB4-003065A8A644@bittersea.com>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 09:23:12 -0800 (PST)
From: Dun Xiahou <xiahoudun13@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re:
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

A friend of mine came back from his trip to Scotland
with a bottle of 25 year Speyside single malt.  I
thought it was a fantastic smokey malt.  Wondering if
you've ever tried it.

- Yuan's brother


--- Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com> wrote:
> 
> On Thursday, January 31, 2002, at 02:59 AM, James
> Culshaw wrote:
> 
> > Ack,
> >
> > you can tell your not Scottish you call it Scotch
> not Whiskey.
> >
> > I find Glenmorrangie (I think I have spelt that
> wrong but never mind) 
> > is a
> > better malt.
> >
> 
> Here in the States we have Bourbon Whiskey
> (Kentuckey) and Tennessee 
> Whiskey (Jack Daniel's, George Dickey, etc.)
> Canadian Whiskey (Seven 
> Crowns, Black Velvet, etc.; blended Rye Whiskey),
> straight Rye Whiskey,  
> and Scotch Whiskey, hence the differentiation.
> 
> They all have their significant qualities;
> Glenmorranghie is sweeter 
> than Glenfiddich, while Talisker is dryer, though
> they are all very 
> similar, especially if you compare them to some of
> the very smoky malts 
> like Oban or Laphroig.
> 
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
> 
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be
> explained away by 
> stupidity.
> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! 
http://auctions.yahoo.com



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From: Dun Xiahou <xiahoudun13@yahoo.com>
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In-Reply-To: <OE447mvjkO22ZhCl8ai0000fd4e@hotmail.com>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 09:28:09 -0800 (PST)
From: Dun Xiahou <xiahoudun13@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re:
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Jack Daniels (Old No. 7 specifically) is a Sour Mash. 
Technically Sour Mash is a type of Bourbon which has
an extra charcoal filtering process which usually
gives it somewhat of a cleaner taste.  Non-sourmash
bourbons usually have a characteristic caramel flavor
to them; in a Sour Mash that flavor is usually very
mild or non-existant altogether.  One exception to
that statement I think, though, is A.H. Hirsch 20
Year, which has a distinct vanilla flavor to it.

- Cao's cousin

--- James Culshaw <culshaja@hotmail.com> wrote:
> We have three whiskeys - Malt, Grain, and Blended.
> The others such as Jack Daniels etc I am not sure
> that they are thought as
> anything other than their brand name - that was
> certainly the case in my
> town.
> 
> James :-)
>
___________________________________________________________
>
___________________________________________________________
> 
> My mind is the centre of the universe and you are
> all but dreams!
> 
> Please check out the following sites:
> 
> http://dotnet.securedomains.com/krondor/index.aspx
> http://www.active-data-solutions.co.uk
> http://www.unholycrusade.co.uk
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Raymond Feist" <raymond@bittersea.com>
> To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2002 3:00 PM
> Subject: Re:
> 
> 
> >
> > On Thursday, January 31, 2002, at 02:59 AM, James
> Culshaw wrote:
> >
> > > Ack,
> > >
> > > you can tell your not Scottish you call it
> Scotch not Whiskey.
> > >
> > > I find Glenmorrangie (I think I have spelt that
> wrong but never mind)
> > > is a
> > > better malt.
> > >
> >
> > Here in the States we have Bourbon Whiskey
> (Kentuckey) and Tennessee
> > Whiskey (Jack Daniel's, George Dickey, etc.)
> Canadian Whiskey (Seven
> > Crowns, Black Velvet, etc.; blended Rye Whiskey),
> straight Rye Whiskey,
> > and Scotch Whiskey, hence the differentiation.
> >
> > They all have their significant qualities;
> Glenmorranghie is sweeter
> > than Glenfiddich, while Talisker is dryer, though
> they are all very
> > similar, especially if you compare them to some of
> the very smoky malts
> > like Oban or Laphroig.
> >
> > Best, R.E.F.
> > ----
> >
> > Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily
> be explained away by
> > stupidity.
> >
> >
> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! 
http://auctions.yahoo.com



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*** EOOH ***
From: "Darren McClung" <d@dwmc.org>
To: <feistfans-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: OT: List Weirdness
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 12:09:48 -0600
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I've been unsubbed 4 times in the last week.  Is anyone else having this
problem?

Darren



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Subject: RE: List Weirdness
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 11:43:43 -0700
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From: "Scott Hendrick" <SHendrick@cqg.com>
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Subject: RE: List Weirdness
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 11:43:43 -0700
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I was "unsubscribed" about 2 weeks ago for no apparent reason...

Scott Hendrick

> I've been unsubbed 4 times in the last week.  Is anyone else having this
>problem?
>
>Darren

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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Larry Siegel <larry@psihawk.com>
Subject: Interesting news......
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Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 14:21:17 -0500
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Larry Siegel <larry@psihawk.com>
Subject: Interesting news......
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I took this from the SciFi Wire website... http://www.scifi.com/scifiwire

"Paramount has optioned the movie rights to The Lost Regiment, William
J.  Forstchen's eight-part, time-traveling series of books, to be
developed by C/W Productions, Tom Cruise and production partner Paula
Wagner's company, Variety reported. The first book in the series,
1990's Rally Cry, told of a Civil War regiment time-warped to the
future, where humans are slaughtered like cattle, the trade paper
reported.  The latest volume in the series, Men of War, appeared in
1999. The studio has optioned all eight books, but Wagner told Variety
that C/W is still considering how the film will be developed.
Forstchen is a history professor at Montreat College in North
Carolina."

Thought everyone... including Ray... might find some interest in that.

Send flames to me privately.



Larry

My Homepage
http://www.psihawk.com

Raymond E. Feist FAQ
http://www.psihawk.com/feist

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From: "Susan" <susanandderek@freemail.absa.co.za>
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Subject: RE: New Fan
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 23:47:28 +0200
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From: "Susan" <susanandderek@freemail.absa.co.za>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: New Fan
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 23:47:28 +0200
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Mr.Feist, in a country like South Africa, where last year, there were +/-
20000 reported cases of child molestation or rape along with the usual
nonsense, one tends to look over you shoulder at all times. It is therfore,
a blessing, in our violent society, that one can escape to a fantasy world,
spanning 12 novels, and forget for those few hours, the reality that we live
in. So anybody who has the ability to do that for his readers, is in my mind
and I'm sure others as well, deserving of the label "genius" along with
Einstein, Beethoven and Twain.

Thankyou

Derek

-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Raymond Feist
>Sent: 30 January 2002 10:51
>To: FEISTFANS-L
>Subject: Re: New Fan
>
>
>
>On Wednesday, January 30, 2002, at 12:06 PM, Susan wrote:
>
>> Good evening all
>>
>> The name is Derek and I'm from South Africa. I am new to the internet
>> and
>> e-mail and obviously FEISTFANS. A couple of months ago I had the honour
>> of
>> reading, Magician-Revised Edition, and was immediately hooked ; line and
>> sinker. My fiance nearly killed me when I went and spent 3/4 of my
>> salary,
>> because of our pathetic currency, and bought every avaliable Feist book,
>> which I finished in 26 days, Rage of the Demon King taking 11.5 hours
>> from
>> 5:00 pm to 4:30 am, without a break. Tolkien has nothing on Mr. Feist.
>> I'm
>> not sure how long these e-mails are supposed to be but I have a couple
>> of
>> questions which I hope wiil be answered. 1) Is it Mr.Feist who answers
>> the
>> e-mails or is somebody writing on his behalf ? 2) Shards ends where Pug
>> calls his group the "Conclave of Shadows", who are to oppose the
>> Nameless
>> One. Are there books to follow or is that it ? 3) Could somebody please
>> send
>> me a list of all his avaliable and upcoming books, because I dont know
>> if I
>> have them all.
>> Lastly if it is Mr. Feist who answers the e-mails; you Sir are a genius
>> and
>> comparing you to Tolkien is like comparing the bible to a Clive Barker
>> novel.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>Thanks, but I reserve the "genius" label for guys like Einstein,
>Beethoven, and Twain.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
>stupidity.
>


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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 14:01:23 -0800
Subject: Re:
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Thursday, January 31, 2002, at 09:23 AM, Dun Xiahou wrote:

> A friend of mine came back from his trip to Scotland
> with a bottle of 25 year Speyside single malt.  I
> thought it was a fantastic smokey malt.  Wondering if
> you've ever tried it.
>
>

Which distillery?  There are several at Speyside.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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From: "Susan" <susanandderek@freemail.absa.co.za>
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Subject: RE: New Fan
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 23:51:56 +0200
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*** EOOH ***
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: "Susan" <susanandderek@freemail.absa.co.za>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: New Fan
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 23:51:56 +0200
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

To Kervyn,Kenneth and Magdel ( Fellow South Africans )

I am from Durban, it's nice to know that there are other SA's with a taste
for a good read.

Derek

-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Kervyn Cloete
>Sent: 31 January 2002 08:54
>To: FEISTFANS-L
>Subject: Re: New Fan
>
>
>Hey There!
>
>I thought I was the only South African on the list.
>Where do you live? Im in Cape Town.
>
>-Kervyn
>
>mail: murf_seed@yahoo.com
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions!
>http://auctions.yahoo.com
>


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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 14:02:38 -0800
Subject: Re:
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Thursday, January 31, 2002, at 09:28 AM, Dun Xiahou wrote:

> Jack Daniels (Old No. 7 specifically) is a Sour Mash.
> Technically Sour Mash is a type of Bourbon which has
> an extra charcoal filtering process which usually
> gives it somewhat of a cleaner taste.  Non-sourmash
> bourbons usually have a characteristic caramel flavor
> to them; in a Sour Mash that flavor is usually very
> mild or non-existant altogether.  One exception to
> that statement I think, though, is A.H. Hirsch 20
> Year, which has a distinct vanilla flavor to it.
>

Several whiskey makers in Kentucky are going to come looking for you.  
Bourbons are made in Kentucky.  Like Scotch is made in Scotland.  
Secondly, no Kentucky whiskey ever uses a sour mash.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Subject: Re: Interesting news......
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 14:03:24 -0800
Subject: Re: Interesting news......
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Thursday, January 31, 2002, at 11:21 AM, Larry Siegel wrote:

> I took this from the SciFi Wire website...http://www.scifi.com/scifiwire
>
> "Paramount has optioned the movie rights to The Lost Regiment, William 
> J. Forstchen's
> eight-part, time-traveling series of books, to be developed by C/W 
> Productions, Tom
> Cruise and production partner Paula Wagner's company, Variety reported. 
> The first
> book in the series, 1990's Rally Cry, told of a Civil War regiment 
> time-warped to the
> future, where humans are slaughtered like cattle, the trade paper 
> reported. The latest
> volume in the series, Men of War, appeared in 1999. The studio has 
> optioned all eight
> books, but Wagner told Variety that C/W is still considering how the 
> film will be
> developed. Forstchen is a history professor at Montreat College in 
> North Carolina."
>
> Thought everyone... including Ray... might find some interest in that.
>

I heard about it yesterday and talked to Bill this morning.  He's going 
to fly out and do all the paperwork sometime next month and may come 
down for a couple of days to hang with me.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.

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*** EOOH ***
From: "Mark Chaloner" <markchaloner@btinternet.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Interesting news......
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 22:20:38 -0000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

 
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Raymond Feist
>Sent: 31 January, 2002 10:03 pm
>To: FEISTFANS-L
>Subject: Re: Interesting news......
>
>
>On Thursday, January 31, 2002, at 11:21 AM, Larry Siegel wrote:
>
>
>
>I took this from the SciFi Wire website...http://www.scifi.com/scifiwire
>
>"Paramount has optioned the movie rights to The Lost Regiment, William
>J. Forstchen's
>eight-part, time-traveling series of books, to be developed by C/W
>Productions, Tom
>Cruise and production partner Paula Wagner's company, Variety reported.
>The first
>book in the series, 1990's Rally Cry, told of a Civil War regiment
>time-warped to the
>future, where humans are slaughtered like cattle, the trade paper
>reported. The latest
>volume in the series, Men of War, appeared in 1999. The studio has
>optioned all eight
>books, but Wagner told Variety that C/W is still considering how the
>film will be
>developed. Forstchen is a history professor at Montreat College in North
>Carolina."
>
>Thought everyone... including Ray... might find some interest in that.
>
>
>
>
>I heard about it yesterday and talked to Bill this morning. He's going
>to fly out and do all the paperwork sometime next month and may come
>down for a couple of days to hang with me.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
>stupidity.

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From: "Mark Chaloner" <markchaloner@btinternet.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Interesting news......
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 22:29:13 -0000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Mark Chaloner" <markchaloner@btinternet.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Interesting news......
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 22:29:13 -0000
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>On Thursday, January 31, 2002, at 11:21 AM, Larry Siegel wrote:
>
>
>I took this from the SciFi Wire website...http://www.scifi.com/scifiwire
>
>"Paramount has optioned the movie rights to The Lost Regiment, William
>J. Forstchen's
>eight-part, time-traveling series of books, to be developed by C/W
>Productions, Tom
>Cruise and production partner Paula Wagner's company, Variety reported.
>The first
>book in the series, 1990's Rally Cry, told of a Civil War regiment
>time-warped to the
>future, where humans are slaughtered like cattle, the trade paper
>reported. The latest
>volume in the series, Men of War, appeared in 1999. The studio has
>optioned all eight
>books, but Wagner told Variety that C/W is still considering how the
>film will be
>developed. Forstchen is a history professor at Montreat College in North
>Carolina."
>
>Thought everyone... including Ray... might find some interest in that.
>
>
>
>I heard about it yesterday and talked to Bill this morning. He's going
>to fly out and do all the paperwork sometime next month and may come
>down for a couple of days to hang with me.
>
>Best, R.E.F.


Ahh, it can only be a matter of time then hey <grins>

--- 
Mark ;-) 
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 
'A man who sees a god in his master, scarcely hopes for paradise' 
- Marquis de Custine 
markchaloner@btinternet.com



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On Thu, Jan 31, 2002 at 02:02:38PM -0800, Raymond Feist wrote:
 >
> 
> Several whiskey makers in Kentucky are going to come looking for you.  
> Bourbons are made in Kentucky.  Like Scotch is made in Scotland.  
> Secondly, no Kentucky whiskey ever uses a sour mash.

But presumably you can have Scotch style wisky, even if it's made in
another place? There are some local distilleries here in New Zealand
which produce wisky. I'm fairly sure its labled as Scotch. Dunedin
has a lot of Scottish heritage though, so maybe that counts<g>.

I only drink Scotch, so I don't pay much attention to the American
Wisky types, but till now I'd put wisky into two catagorys. Scotch
(which is what i mean if i say 'Wisky') and Bourbon. Its good to
learn the error of my ways.

Tim


> 
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
> 
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
> stupidity.
> 

-- 
Tim Nicholas                          ||                      Cilix
Email: tim@nicholas.net.nz            ||              ICQ# 15869961
http://tim.nicholas.net.nz/           ||       Dunedin, New Zealand
"Grow up, Larry. You give me too much credit." - Linus Torvalds



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--- "Susan" <susanandderek@freemail.absa.co.za> wrote:
>I am from Durban [cut].

You obviously meant Durbin. 
I was there many times. *grin*

Regards,
Father Nathan


_____________________________________________________________
Get your Free, Permanent, and Private Irish Email Today!
---------- http://www.irish4ever.com -----------



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From: "Charles Ellis" <hamled@linuxfreemail.com>
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Mr. Feist,
    I have been reading your books off and on for several years, and I
greatly enjoy them. Infact, I think they are the best fantasy series
that I have read. The real point of this, however, is a question. I
was wondering, does Sierra (Vivendi Universal) still own the rights to
games based upon your world and books? I realize that things have
probably been very tense since Return to Krondor, and I was just
wondering about the status of that license.

-- Charles "Hamled" Ellis

Get your own FREE E-mail address at http://www.linuxfreemail.com
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Subject: Well Feist, I'm back 
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From: Gkhd11a@aol.com
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 19:00:58 EST
Subject: Well Feist, I'm back 
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If you will recall I requested a go-ahead for a Play by Post RPG, on behalf 
of the Hall of Worlds website.  It would be set in the Hall of Worlds, Honest 
John's and all the worlds we could come up with.  Any characters mentioned 
being in Honest John's would be nice to be able to use, such as the person 
that Miranda talked to, to find out where Pug was.  So if you could tell us 
if we could do any of this under any agreement, I would be happy (and all of 
your fans that would use it as well).

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*** EOOH ***
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Subject: Re: 
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
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On Thursday, January 31, 2002, at 03:13 PM, Tim Nicholas wrote:

> On Thu, Jan 31, 2002 at 02:02:38PM -0800, Raymond Feist wrote:
>>
>>
>> Several whiskey makers in Kentucky are going to come looking for you.
>> Bourbons are made in Kentucky.  Like Scotch is made in Scotland.
>> Secondly, no Kentucky whiskey ever uses a sour mash.
>
> But presumably you can have Scotch style wisky, even if it's made in
> another place?

Sure.  One of the very best is Suntory Royal, from Japan.

>  There are some local distilleries here in New Zealand
> which produce wisky. I'm fairly sure its labled as Scotch. Dunedin
> has a lot of Scottish heritage though, so maybe that counts<g>.
>
> I only drink Scotch, so I don't pay much attention to the American
> Wisky types, but till now I'd put wisky into two catagorys. Scotch
> (which is what i mean if i say 'Wisky') and Bourbon. Its good to
> learn the error of my ways.

Well, technically, if it's not made in Scotland, it's not Scotch.  
Though Duedin sure could pass for Scotland, down to the thistle and 
sheep.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 17:16:25 -0800
Subject: Re: Computer Game Rights
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 17:16:25 -0800
Subject: Re: Computer Game Rights
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On Thursday, January 31, 2002, at 03:41 PM, Charles Ellis wrote:

> Mr. Feist,
>     I have been reading your books off and on for several years, and I 
> greatly enjoy them. Infact, I think they are the best fantasy series 
> that I have read. The real point of this, however, is a question. I was 
> wondering, does Sierra (Vivendi Universal) still own the rights to 
> games based upon your world and books? I realize that things have 
> probably been very tense since Return to Krondor, and I was just 
> wondering about the status of that license.
>

No, Vivendi/Universal does not have rights.  I've talked to over a 
half-dozen companies in the last year, but at this point no one has made 
an offer that makes sense.

Best,R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 17:17:27 -0800
Subject: Re: Well Feist, I'm back 
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 17:17:27 -0800
Subject: Re: Well Feist, I'm back 
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On Thursday, January 31, 2002, at 04:00 PM, Gkhd11a@aol.com wrote:

> If you will recall I requested a go-ahead for a Play by Post RPG, on 
> behalf of the Hall of Worlds website.  It would be set in the Hall of 
> Worlds, Honest John's and all the worlds we could come up with.  Any 
> characters mentioned being in Honest John's would be nice to be able to 
> use, such as the person that Miranda talked to, to find out where Pug 
> was.  So if you could tell us if we could do any of this under any 
> agreement, I would be happy (and all of your fans that would use it as 
> well).
>
>
>

"Well Feist . . . ?

How about you contact me directly via e-mail instead of on the list.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.

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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 18:31:57 -0700
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Computer Game Rights
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Raymond Feist wrote:
> 
> On Thursday, January 31, 2002, at 03:41 PM, Charles Ellis wrote:
> 
> > Mr. Feist,
> >     I have been reading your books off and on for several years, and I
> > greatly enjoy them. Infact, I think they are the best fantasy series
> > that I have read. The real point of this, however, is a question. I was
> > wondering, does Sierra (Vivendi Universal) still own the rights to
> > games based upon your world and books? I realize that things have
> > probably been very tense since Return to Krondor, and I was just
> > wondering about the status of that license.
> >
> 
> No, Vivendi/Universal does not have rights.  I've talked to over a
> half-dozen companies in the last year, but at this point no one has made
> an offer that makes sense.

Here's a question that spins off the above, and is for everybody:
anybody want/willing to update the major FAQ that's out there? the
really comprehensive one?
It's a great faq, but it's about 3 years out of date or something now :)

Craig J. Ries



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Subject: Re: Computer Game Rights
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Barker" <heechee@softhome.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Computer Game Rights
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 13:34:40 +1100
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Friday, February 01, 2002 12:31 PM
Subject: Re: Computer Game Rights

> Here's a question that spins off the above, and is for everybody:
> anybody want/willing to update the major FAQ that's out there? the
> really comprehensive one?
> It's a great faq, but it's about 3 years out of date or something now :)
>
> Craig J. Ries
>

Larry (Psihawk) mentioned it a while back, and I never got a reply to my
expression of interest... :)

So Larry, what's the go? If someone else hasn't taken the job yet, I'd still
be happy to.

Cheers,
James



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*** EOOH ***
From: "Rich" <richse@eden.rutgers.edu>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Computer Game Rights
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 23:30:07 -0500
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    I could see a great MMORPG (massively multiplayer online roleplaying
game) based on both worlds. People could choose to be any number of races
and classes with a rift or rifts linking the work. That would be a game I'd
get into. Lets just hope some company like Sierra see's the value and
decides to make a worthwhile offer.

-Rich-

----- Original Message -----
From: "Raymond Feist" <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2002 8:16 PM
Subject: Re: Computer Game Rights


>
> On Thursday, January 31, 2002, at 03:41 PM, Charles Ellis wrote:
>
> > Mr. Feist,
> >     I have been reading your books off and on for several years, and I
> > greatly enjoy them. Infact, I think they are the best fantasy series
> > that I have read. The real point of this, however, is a question. I was
> > wondering, does Sierra (Vivendi Universal) still own the rights to
> > games based upon your world and books? I realize that things have
> > probably been very tense since Return to Krondor, and I was just
> > wondering about the status of that license.
> >
>
> No, Vivendi/Universal does not have rights.  I've talked to over a
> half-dozen companies in the last year, but at this point no one has made
> an offer that makes sense.
>
> Best,R.E.F.
> ----
>
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
> stupidity.
>



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Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2002 07:19:56 -0000
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Just thought I would share this with you:

Its only a thistle if the flower is purple. If its white its not a thistle
its a weed.

Go figure!

James :-)
___________________________________________________________
___________________________________________________________

My mind is the centre of the universe and you are all but dreams!

Please check out the following sites:

http://dotnet.securedomains.com/krondor/index.aspx
http://www.active-data-solutions.co.uk
http://www.unholycrusade.co.uk

----- Original Message -----
From: "Raymond Feist" <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Friday, February 01, 2002 1:15 AM
Subject: Re:


>
> On Thursday, January 31, 2002, at 03:13 PM, Tim Nicholas wrote:
>
> > On Thu, Jan 31, 2002 at 02:02:38PM -0800, Raymond Feist wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> Several whiskey makers in Kentucky are going to come looking for you.
> >> Bourbons are made in Kentucky.  Like Scotch is made in Scotland.
> >> Secondly, no Kentucky whiskey ever uses a sour mash.
> >
> > But presumably you can have Scotch style wisky, even if it's made in
> > another place?
>
> Sure.  One of the very best is Suntory Royal, from Japan.
>
> >  There are some local distilleries here in New Zealand
> > which produce wisky. I'm fairly sure its labled as Scotch. Dunedin
> > has a lot of Scottish heritage though, so maybe that counts<g>.
> >
> > I only drink Scotch, so I don't pay much attention to the American
> > Wisky types, but till now I'd put wisky into two catagorys. Scotch
> > (which is what i mean if i say 'Wisky') and Bourbon. Its good to
> > learn the error of my ways.
>
> Well, technically, if it's not made in Scotland, it's not Scotch.
> Though Duedin sure could pass for Scotland, down to the thistle and
> sheep.
>
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
>
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
> stupidity.
>
>



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From: Tim Nicholas <tim@nicholas.net.nz>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2002 20:38:15 +1300
From: Tim Nicholas <tim@nicholas.net.nz>
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On Fri, Feb 01, 2002 at 07:19:56AM -0000, James Culshaw wrote:
> Just thought I would share this with you:
> 
> Its only a thistle if the flower is purple. If its white its not a thistle
> its a weed.

Thistles are weeds too.<g>

> 
> Go figure!
> 
> James :-)

-- 
Tim Nicholas                          ||                      Cilix
Email: tim@nicholas.net.nz            ||              ICQ# 15869961
http://tim.nicholas.net.nz/           ||       Dunedin, New Zealand
"Grow up, Larry. You give me too much credit." - Linus Torvalds



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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Grandad Rufus <rufo@bigwig.net>
Subject: Whiskey
References: <20020131172809.86535.qmail@web10401.mail.yahoo.com>
 <3D628EF0-1696-11D6-838C-003065A8A644@bittersea.com>
 <20020201121343.A29931@nicholas.net.nz>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2002 08:24:44 +0000
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Grandad Rufus <rufo@bigwig.net>
Subject: Whiskey
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

In article <20020201121343.A29931@nicholas.net.nz>, Tim Nicholas
<tim@nicholas.net.nz> writes
>On Thu, Jan 31, 2002 at 02:02:38PM -0800, Raymond Feist wrote:
> >
>> 
>> Several whiskey makers in Kentucky are going to come looking for you.  
>> Bourbons are made in Kentucky.  Like Scotch is made in Scotland.  
>> Secondly, no Kentucky whiskey ever uses a sour mash.
>
>But presumably you can have Scotch style wisky, even if it's made in
>another place? There are some local distilleries here in New Zealand
>which produce wisky. I'm fairly sure its labled as Scotch. Dunedin
>has a lot of Scottish heritage though, so maybe that counts<g>.
>
>I only drink Scotch, so I don't pay much attention to the American
>Wisky types, but till now I'd put wisky into two catagorys. Scotch
>(which is what i mean if i say 'Wisky') and Bourbon. Its good to
>learn the error of my ways.
>
>Tim
>

Personally, I prefer Irish Whiskey.

>
>> 
>> Best, R.E.F.
>> ----
>> 
>> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
>> stupidity.
>> 
>

-- 
*******
Grandad Rufus.

It's not that I have a dirty mind, you understand.
It's just that so many of my thoughts leave muddy little footprints...



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*** EOOH ***
From: "Donal K. Fellows" <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: 
Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2002 09:21:01 +0000
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Tim Nicholas <tim@nicholas.net.nz>
> I only drink Scotch, so I don't pay much attention to the American
> Wisky types, but till now I'd put wisky into two catagorys. Scotch
> (which is what i mean if i say 'Wisky') and Bourbon. Its good to
> learn the error of my ways.

As I understand it, there are three main categories of Whisky -
Bourbon, Scotch and Irish[*] - and they all differ from each other at
a particular point in the process (memory says that it is the number
of times they are distilled, but I may be remembering wrong.)

Donal.
[* Strictly, Irish cannot be Whisky and Scotch cannot be Whiskey. But
   they both taste good. ]
-- 
Donal K. Fellows, Department of Computer Science, University of Manchester, UK.
(work) fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk     Tel: +44-161-275-6137  (preferred email addr.)
(home) donal@ugglan.demon.co.uk  Tel: +44-1274-401017   Mobile: +44-7957-298955
http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~fellowsd/  (Don't quote my .sig; I've seen it before!)



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From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
References: <4F606F92-16B1-11D6-9203-003065A8A644@bittersea.com> <3C59F00C.7128AD32@yifan.net> <001501c1a9ff$fdece540$56a70ccb@jamesbar>
Subject: Re: Computer Game Rights
Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2002 04:39:17 -0600
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Computer Game Rights
Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2002 04:39:17 -0600
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I've also mentioned the interest to help during my off-season (from
school).  But that issue has never been seriously dealt with.  I
agree the FAQs needs a serious update.

-James Young

----- Original Message -----
From: "James Barker" <heechee@softhome.net>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2002 8:34 PM
Subject: Re: Computer Game Rights


>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
> To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> Sent: Friday, February 01, 2002 12:31 PM
> Subject: Re: Computer Game Rights
>
> > Here's a question that spins off the above, and is for everybody:
> > anybody want/willing to update the major FAQ that's out there? the
> > really comprehensive one?
> > It's a great faq, but it's about 3 years out of date or something now :)
> >
> > Craig J. Ries
> >
>
> Larry (Psihawk) mentioned it a while back, and I never got a reply to my
> expression of interest... :)
>
> So Larry, what's the go? If someone else hasn't taken the job yet, I'd still
> be happy to.
>
> Cheers,
> James
>



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Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2002 03:20:00 -0800 (PST)
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--- "Donal K. Fellows" <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk> wrote:
>>As I understand it, there are three main categories of Whisky -
>Bourbon, Scotch and Irish[*] - and they all differ from each other at
>a particular point in the process (memory says that it is the number
>of times they are distilled, but I may be remembering wrong.)

I've drunk only some kinds of Scotch blended whisky, e.g. Johnnie
Walker Red Label, Justerini & Brooks, William Grant's, Clan MacGregor.
Is single malt whisky like Glenfiddich or Talisker noticeably "better"
in taste?

"Gorath!" - unforgettable toast from "Krondor the Betrayal".

I also raise a glass to Gorath.

Father Nathan


_____________________________________________________________
Get your Free, Permanent, and Private Irish Email Today!
---------- http://www.irish4ever.com -----------



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From: "Donal K. Fellows" <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
In-reply-to: <20020201112000.3A2502756@sitemail.everyone.net> (message from
	Nathan on Fri, 1 Feb 2002 03:20:00 -0800 (PST))
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Donal K. Fellows" <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2002 11:55:59 +0000
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Nathan <nathan@irish4ever.com>
> I've drunk only some kinds of Scotch blended whisky, e.g. Johnnie
> Walker Red Label, Justerini & Brooks, William Grant's, Clan MacGregor.
> Is single malt whisky like Glenfiddich or Talisker noticeably "better"
> in taste?

It depends completely on whether you like that particular single malt.
OK, not a surprising thing to say, but true all the same.  Myself, the
tastes I tend to prefer in whisky tend to be better covered by single
malts so far as I can tell (I'm drinking a fair bit of Jura right now)
but who's to say that my preferences should be anyone else's?

Maybe there are expensive blends I'd like too.  But money doesn't grow
on trees...

Donal.
-- 
Donal K. Fellows, Department of Computer Science, University of Manchester, UK.
(work) fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk     Tel: +44-161-275-6137  (preferred email addr.)
(home) donal@ugglan.demon.co.uk  Tel: +44-1274-401017   Mobile: +44-7957-298955
http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~fellowsd/  (Don't quote my .sig; I've seen it before!)



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*** EOOH ***
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Tim Nicholas wrote

> 
> On Fri, Feb 01, 2002 at 07:19:56AM -0000, James Culshaw wrote:
> > Just thought I would share this with you:
> > 
> > Its only a thistle if the flower is purple. If its white its not a thistle
> > its a weed.
> 
> Thistles are weeds too.<g>
> 

  
But milk thistle, even though a weed, can be used for
liver ailments.
  
Anita


 'Every happy ending needs to have a start.'

___________________________________________________________________
Join the Space Program: Get FREE E-mail at http://www.space.com.



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Subject: Re: Computer Game Rights
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*** EOOH ***
From: Adam012882@cs.com
Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2002 08:11:35 EST
Subject: Re: Computer Game Rights
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In a message dated 1/31/02 8:38:31 PM Pacific Standard Time, 
richse@eden.rutgers.edu writes:


> could see a great MMORPG (massively multiplayer online roleplaying
> game) based on both worlds. People could choose to be any number of races
> and classes with a rift or rifts linking the work. That would be a game I'd
> get into. Lets just hope some company like Sierra see's the value and
> decides to make a worthwhile offer.
> 
> -Rich-
> 
> 

I too would love to see this happen, but I don't think his books are popular 
enough for it to succeed, with games like starwars online and final fantasy 
11 online coming out, i doubt that their will be anyone playing this game 
besides hard core fans of rays books. The markets been, or is going to be 
saturated.

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References: <4F606F92-16B1-11D6-9203-003065A8A644@bittersea.com>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2002 08:52:18 -0500
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Larry Siegel <larry@psihawk.com>
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I think what happened... was the issue came up when I was on vacation in 
August....
And I had emailed the list.... and ended up coming home to like 2000+ emails...
(not just in reguards to that....0

Anyway... contact me off list... and we'll work on getting it updated...


Larry

My Homepage
http://www.psihawk.com

Raymond E. Feist FAQ
http://www.psihawk.com/feist



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2002 06:44:03 -0800 (PST)
From: Dun Xiahou <xiahoudun13@yahoo.com>
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Not sure, it hadn't been bottled for commercial
resale, so it simply said "Speyside."  I've never been
to Great Britain myself, so I couldn't tell you which
distillery.  I'll give him a ring and ask him which
one, then I'll get back to you.

- Yuan's one-eyed brother

P.S.  He was able to get access to it by giving a
local whiskey shop owner 2 bottle of bourbon. 
Bourbon, I guess, is fairly difficult to come by in
Great Britain.

--- Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com> wrote:
> 
> On Thursday, January 31, 2002, at 09:23 AM, Dun
> Xiahou wrote:
> 
> > A friend of mine came back from his trip to
> Scotland
> > with a bottle of 25 year Speyside single malt.  I
> > thought it was a fantastic smokey malt.  Wondering
> if
> > you've ever tried it.
> >
> >
> 
> Which distillery?  There are several at Speyside.
> 
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
> 
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be
> explained away by 
> stupidity.
> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! 
http://auctions.yahoo.com



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2002 06:54:02 -0800 (PST)
From: Dun Xiahou <xiahoudun13@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re:
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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Actually, Scotch whiskey does not necessarily have to
be made in Scotland to be called Scotch.  It is the
process and ingredients by which the whiskey is made
that truly classifies it.  The real reason it is
called Scotch is because the process originated in
Scotland.  As such, bourbons originated in Kentucky. 
Sour Mash is a type of bourbon which was developed by
adding an extra filtering through charcoal.  It was
developed in Tennessee, and thus is frequently
referred to as Tennessee Whiskey.  But, because the
process is derived from bourbon whiskey, it is
technically a type of bourbon.  There are many who
would say that you can't call a whiskey not made in
Kentucky, "bourbon."  It is not the location it is
made that is important, it is the location that the
process originated.  If I so choose, I could make
bourbon at home, and if I followed the proper
procedure, etc, then it would be called bourbon, not
"New Jersey Whiskey."

- Yuan's not-as-fat one-eyed brother


--- Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com> wrote:
> 
> On Thursday, January 31, 2002, at 09:28 AM, Dun
> Xiahou wrote:
> 
> > Jack Daniels (Old No. 7 specifically) is a Sour
> Mash.
> > Technically Sour Mash is a type of Bourbon which
> has
> > an extra charcoal filtering process which usually
> > gives it somewhat of a cleaner taste. 
> Non-sourmash
> > bourbons usually have a characteristic caramel
> flavor
> > to them; in a Sour Mash that flavor is usually
> very
> > mild or non-existant altogether.  One exception to
> > that statement I think, though, is A.H. Hirsch 20
> > Year, which has a distinct vanilla flavor to it.
> >
> 
> Several whiskey makers in Kentucky are going to come
> looking for you.  
> Bourbons are made in Kentucky.  Like Scotch is made
> in Scotland.  
> Secondly, no Kentucky whiskey ever uses a sour mash.
> 
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
> 
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be
> explained away by 
> stupidity.
> 


__________________________________________________
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Nope, you could do a lot with a multi player online game based on 
Midkemia. It is the hardcore fantasy readers and rpg players you'd want 
to attract, not the average player. If you did it right you could get a 
player base of several thousand. Personally I don't play graphic online 
games as they are rarelly compatible with my Mac (and I don't emulate 
Windows for online uses) and also require a lot of data transfer (making 
game play slower). Text based (even graphically enhanced text based 
games) on the other hand generally work on every platform and can keep 
much more people hooked for a long time. You would also receive monthly 
income and be able to have live GM's to animate and moderate the game. 
The text based game I play (played till I went broke) has been going for 
over 10 years now (it started breaking recently but they have begun a 
big rework which should fix most problems) and has a customer base in 
the ten thousands (well at least some ten thousand). The same could be 
done for Midkemia. Heck, I could even work out a general plan on how to 
do it, what to include and what to exclude, but then I'm not a 
programmer and was never even accepted as an online GM (but that might 
very well be US employment laws making a US company hesitate about 
employing someone on another continent).

And Ray, you might wish to contact Simutronics to find out whether they 
would be interested to design an online game about Midkemia, they have a 
huge customer base and might be able to fit in another project. 
Otherwise Aephir (Aephir's Den) might be able to do it. I would not go 
looking for the big software companies, they can produce a good game, 
but it won't be running for long. And then there are a few other 
companies with a lot of experience in this area.

Marc aka Caran... wargamer, role player, game designer and world 
designer of sorts

P.S.: The game I used to play for 6 years out of 10-11 of it's existance 
is Gemstone III (GSIII) by Simutronics. They also run GS Dragonrealms 
(which was supposed to be GSIII's sucessor but they now run parallel), 
Hercules & Xena (H&X) Modus Operandi, and at least one other game. I 
think they might also have an entirely new game engine lying about. 
Aephir of Aephir's Den and Aeternity is a former GSIII GM who has set 
out on his own, Aeternity is not currently running on a pay format (as 
contracts for it did not work out and Aephir had to take up a new job 
and just runs Aeternity in his free time with a bunch of other GM's). 
Having played, alpha and beta tested half a dozen games of this type I'd 
say that a company like Simutronics could do wonders with Midkemia 
(probably using Midkemia press game system with little modification (I 
am not familiar with the game I fear), that would of course mean a 
concerted action of Ray and Midkemia press).

P.P.S.: Ray I may contact you one of these days for a wargame on 
Midkemia, I had a complete design half way ready for presentation a few 
years ago but then went off to other projects. But then again I am fully 
occupied with the possible publication of a game located in my own world 
Kemenfae (I put the books on the back shelf once again, I am better at 
designing games and telling stories then writting books I fear).

Adam012882@cs.com wrote:

> In a message dated 1/31/02 8:38:31 PM Pacific Standard Time, 
> richse@eden.rutgers.edu writes:
>
>
>> could see a great MMORPG (massively multiplayer online roleplaying
>> game) based on both worlds. People could choose to be any number of 
>> races
>> and classes with a rift or rifts linking the work. That would be a 
>> game I'd
>> get into. Lets just hope some company like Sierra see's the value and
>> decides to make a worthwhile offer.
>>
>> -Rich-
>>
>
>
> I too would love to see this happen, but I don't think his books are 
> popular enough for it to succeed, with games like starwars online and 
> final fantasy 11 online coming out, i doubt that their will be anyone 
> playing this game besides hard core fans of rays books. The markets 
> been, or is going to be saturated.






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All depends on laws as well, it might be illegal to sell whisky 
(spelling is silly as all are incorrect if you look back far enough into 
celtic languages) in the UK labelled Scotch that was not made in 
Scotland etc. Many names of that kind are protected and therefore 
entirely regional and not descent (f. ex. you can only make Champagne in 
Champagne France, anything else has to use a different name, at least if 
it wants to be sold in the EU).

I personally never liked whisky of any kind and don't understand the 
trouble (yep I used to drink Jack Daniels as a teenager, but it was the 
brand name that counted, not what it tasted like). I much prefer a good 
beer (ale & stout) or wine (table). If I go for harder stuff it's 
generally either Port (all round feeling) or Rum and Vodka (to get 
drunk, which I try to avoid).

Marc aka Caran...

Dun Xiahou wrote:

>Actually, Scotch whiskey does not necessarily have to
>be made in Scotland to be called Scotch.  It is the
>process and ingredients by which the whiskey is made
>that truly classifies it.  The real reason it is
>called Scotch is because the process originated in
>Scotland.  As such, bourbons originated in Kentucky. 
>Sour Mash is a type of bourbon which was developed by
>adding an extra filtering through charcoal.  It was
>developed in Tennessee, and thus is frequently
>referred to as Tennessee Whiskey.  But, because the
>process is derived from bourbon whiskey, it is
>technically a type of bourbon.  There are many who
>would say that you can't call a whiskey not made in
>Kentucky, "bourbon."  It is not the location it is
>made that is important, it is the location that the
>process originated.  If I so choose, I could make
>bourbon at home, and if I followed the proper
>procedure, etc, then it would be called bourbon, not
>"New Jersey Whiskey."
>
>- Yuan's not-as-fat one-eyed brother
>
>
>--- Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com> wrote:
>
>>On Thursday, January 31, 2002, at 09:28 AM, Dun
>>Xiahou wrote:
>>
>>>Jack Daniels (Old No. 7 specifically) is a Sour
>>>
>>Mash.
>>
>>>Technically Sour Mash is a type of Bourbon which
>>>
>>has
>>
>>>an extra charcoal filtering process which usually
>>>gives it somewhat of a cleaner taste. 
>>>
>>Non-sourmash
>>
>>>bourbons usually have a characteristic caramel
>>>
>>flavor
>>
>>>to them; in a Sour Mash that flavor is usually
>>>
>>very
>>
>>>mild or non-existant altogether.  One exception to
>>>that statement I think, though, is A.H. Hirsch 20
>>>Year, which has a distinct vanilla flavor to it.
>>>
>>Several whiskey makers in Kentucky are going to come
>>looking for you.  
>>Bourbons are made in Kentucky.  Like Scotch is made
>>in Scotland.  
>>Secondly, no Kentucky whiskey ever uses a sour mash.
>>
>>Best, R.E.F.
>>----
>>
>>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be
>>explained away by 
>>stupidity.
>>
>
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! 
>http://auctions.yahoo.com
>
>
>




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I did a little quick research to verify my previous
statements, and came upon these definitions from
multiple places, I mixed up Sour Mash with Tennessee
whiskey.  That's because all Tennessee whiskeys are
Sour Mashes, but sour mash has a totally different
meaning than I thought:

---------------------------------------
American Whiskey made from at least 51% corn and aged
in white oak barrels which have been charred on the
inside.  Bourbons must be aged at least 2 years,
though most are aged 4-8 years.

Tennessee Whiskey is bourbon which is then filtered
through charcoal.

Sour Mash is a whiskey which is made by adding the
previous batch to the new mash.
---------------------------------------

Actually, it seems that all modern bourbons AND
Tennessee whiskeys are sour mashes.  And a funny
little fact:

There are currently NO distilleries in Bourbon
Kentucky.

- Cao's cousin Dun

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And of course, Marijuana, although a weed, can be used
to for glaucoma (sp?).  Of course, it has other uses
too.

- Cao's right-hand-man

P.S.  No, I don't use it

--- dreamfish@space.com wrote:
> Tim Nicholas wrote
> 
> > 
> > On Fri, Feb 01, 2002 at 07:19:56AM -0000, James
> Culshaw wrote:
> > > Just thought I would share this with you:
> > > 
> > > Its only a thistle if the flower is purple. If
> its
> white its not a thistle
> > > its a weed.
> > 
> > Thistles are weeds too.<g>
> > 
> 
>   
> But milk thistle, even though a weed, can be used
> for
> liver ailments.
>   
> Anita
> 
> 
>  'Every happy ending needs to have a start.'
> 
> ___________________________________________________________________
> Join the Space Program: Get FREE E-mail at
> http://www.space.com.
> 


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Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2002 11:36:15 -0800
Subject: Re: 
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Friday, February 1, 2002, at 01:21 AM, Donal K. Fellows wrote:

> Tim Nicholas <tim@nicholas.net.nz>
>> I only drink Scotch, so I don't pay much attention to the American
>> Wisky types, but till now I'd put wisky into two catagorys. Scotch
>> (which is what i mean if i say 'Wisky') and Bourbon. Its good to
>> learn the error of my ways.
>
> As I understand it, there are three main categories of Whisky -
> Bourbon, Scotch and Irish[*] - and they all differ from each other at
> a particular point in the process (memory says that it is the number
> of times they are distilled, but I may be remembering wrong.)

"Whiskey" and "Whisky" are both distilled products of grain.  There are 
more than three.  Irish, Scotch, Bourbon, Sour Mash, and Rye are the 
major categories.  All have distinctive qualities.  Sour Mash is made 
from a mash that's allowed to turn sour before distillation.  Rye 
whiskey can be made straight or blended (same with Scotch and Bourbon).  
Single Malt Scotch and Single Cask Bourbon all the most distinctive 
because they are the purest expression of the distiller's arts.   Some 
blended scotch (such as Johnny Walker Blue Label) can be as rare and 
expensive as the best single malts.

As for the number of times things are distilled, they're only distilled 
once (if memory serves) because if you distill them a second time, 
you've got a "brandy-like" product, such as Drambue (made from Scotch).

Best, R.E.F.

----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
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On Friday, February 1, 2002, at 06:54 AM, Dun Xiahou wrote:

> Actually, Scotch whiskey does not necessarily have to
> be made in Scotland to be called Scotch.  It is the
> process and ingredients by which the whiskey is made
> that truly classifies it.  The real reason it is
> called Scotch is because the process originated in
> Scotland.  As such, bourbons originated in Kentucky.
> Sour Mash is a type of bourbon which was developed by
> adding an extra filtering through charcoal.  It was
> developed in Tennessee, and thus is frequently
> referred to as Tennessee Whiskey.  But, because the
> process is derived from bourbon whiskey, it is
> technically a type of bourbon.  There are many who
> would say that you can't call a whiskey not made in
> Kentucky, "bourbon."  It is not the location it is
> made that is important, it is the location that the
> process originated.  If I so choose, I could make
> bourbon at home, and if I followed the proper
> procedure, etc, then it would be called bourbon, not
> "New Jersey Whiskey."
>
> - Yuan's not-as-fat one-eyed brother
>

Actually, by law it can't be called "Scotch" unless it comes from 
Scotland.  Which is why Suntori Royal is not called "Scotch" even though 
it tastes like one.  It can't legally be called Bourbon unless it comes 
from Kentucky, which is why Jack Daniel's is labeled "Tennessee 
Whiskey."  And sour mash isn't a variation on Bourbon any more than 
Bourbon or Irish is a variation on Scotch.

And if you made New Jersey Whiskey and tried to call it Bourbon, not 
only would the Feds shut you down for running an illegal still, but the 
Federal Trade Commission would whack you upside the head for calling it 
"Bourbon." <G>

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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On Friday, February 1, 2002, at 07:12 AM, Caranorn Aglaredhel wrote:

> All depends on laws as well, it might be illegal to sell whisky 
> (spelling is silly as all are incorrect if you look back far enough 
> into celtic languages) in the UK labelled Scotch that was not made in 
> Scotland etc. Many names of that kind are protected and therefore 
> entirely regional and not descent (f. ex. you can only make Champagne 
> in Champagne France, anything else has to use a different name, at 
> least if it wants to be sold in the EU).

It drives the French crazy, too.  In California we've had "generic" use 
of French regions names for a half-century, so you can by "Gallo Hearty 
Burgundy," which doesn't come from Burgundy, and probably doesn't have a 
drop of Pinot Noir in it anywhere.  Sometimes it's got a lot of good 
Zinfandel in it and it can be a pretty tasty blend, if somewhat simple.  
Other times it's swill and you never know what you're going to get.  
Gallo "Chabis" is their generic white.  And many spraking wine makers in 
California used to call their product "California Champaign," or just 
Champaign, even though it's illegal just about everywhere else in the 
world to do so.  Thehigher quality wine makers call it "Napa Valley 
Sparkling Wine," or just put "Methode Chapanoise" on the lable, 
indicating it was made by the Champaign method.  Some put nothing on the 
label" except "Brute" or "Cremant," or "Blanc du Blanc" and figure if 
you see that with the wire closed cork on the neck, you know what it is.
>  Best, R.E.F.


> ----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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A couple of things

The Scots call it Whisky, not Whiskey - this is the Irish spelling.

Therefore, judging from the spelling, plus the uncertainty with
Glenmorrangie, I reckon James Culshaw is not Scottish either.

BJS (English :-)

PS - Bought a bottle of Speyside smoky malt for my Mum last year - she found
it 'interesting' at first, and then very more-ish.

PPS - Just got K:TotG and it's going down well :-)

-----Original Message-----
>From: Dun Xiahou [mailto:xiahoudun13@yahoo.com]
>Sent: 31 January 2002 17:23
>To: FEISTFANS-L
>Subject: Re:
>
>
>A friend of mine came back from his trip to Scotland
>with a bottle of 25 year Speyside single malt.  I
>thought it was a fantastic smokey malt.  Wondering if
>you've ever tried it.
>
>- Yuan's brother
>
>
>--- Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com> wrote:
>>
>> On Thursday, January 31, 2002, at 02:59 AM, James
>> Culshaw wrote:
>>
>> > Ack,
>> >
>> > you can tell your not Scottish you call it Scotch
>> not Whiskey.
>> >
>> > I find Glenmorrangie (I think I have spelt that
>> wrong but never mind)
>> > is a
>> > better malt.
>> >
>


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Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2002 20:02:45 -0000
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Ray,

Is Bob Ezrin the same as the producer of Hanoi Rocks's producer on Two Steps
from the Move, and many others as well.

If so, please take you hat off to him next time you see him for an excellent
job.


(Krondor: Tear of the Gods is dedicated to Bob Ezrin, who has been a great
friend and help to Ray).

BJS



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2002 13:29:55 -0800
Subject: Re: Bob Ezrin
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Friday, February 1, 2002, at 12:02 PM, <lists@bjs.org.uk> wrote:

>
> Ray,
>
> Is Bob Ezrin the same as the producer of Hanoi Rocks's producer on Two 
> Steps
> from the Move, and many others as well.
>
> If so, please take you hat off to him next time you see him for an 
> excellent
> job.
>
>
> (Krondor: Tear of the Gods is dedicated to Bob Ezrin, who has been a 
> great
> friend and help to Ray).
>
> BJS
>
>
>
>

Same guy.  Produced Pink Floyd, Kiss, Alice Cooper, Roger Daltry, etc.

Best, R.E.F>
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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From: Dun Xiahou <xiahoudun13@yahoo.com>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2002 13:34:12 -0800 (PST)
From: Dun Xiahou <xiahoudun13@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re:
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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To clear up everything, I dug up the following from
the ATF regulations:

---------------------------------------------
PART 5 SUBPART C--STANDARDS OF IDENTITY FOR DISTILLED
SPIRITS:

...
5.22
(b) Class 2; whisky
...

(2)"Whiskey distilled from bourbon (rye, wheat, malt,
or rye malt) mash" is whisky produced in the United
States at not exceeding 160 proof from a fermented
mash of not less than 51 percent corn, rye, wheat,
malted barley, or malted rye grain, respectively, and
stored in used oak containers; and also includes
mixtures of such whiskies of the same type.  Whisky
conforming to the standard of identity for corn whisky
must be designated corn Whisky.

...

(7)"Scotch whisky" is whisky which is a distinctive
product of Scotland, manufactured in Scotland in
compliance with the laws of the United Kingdom
regulating the manufacture of Scotch whisky for
consumption in the United Kingdom: Provided, That if
such product is a mixture of whiskies, such mixture is
"blended Scotch whisky" (Scotch whisky--a blend)
---------------------------------------------

You were right about Scotch.  I appologize.  However,
I am correct that bourbon need only come from the
United States.  So yes, I can make bourbon in New
Jersey and call it bourbon.  Also, there is no
designation "Tennessee Whisky."  As such, one would
presume that you can call any whisky "Tennessee
whisky" as long as it adheres to at least one of the
regulations regarding whisky.  Most Tennessee whiskies
however, are technically classified as "bourbon
whiskies due to the way the are produced, and the fact
that they are manufactured in the United States.

So it seems we both were right about some points and
wrong about others.  It's no wonder why so many people
find such classifications confusing, myself included.

- Cao's general

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! 
http://auctions.yahoo.com



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*** EOOH ***
From: Jimmre@aol.com
Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2002 16:44:19 EST
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In a message dated Fri, 1 Feb 2002  2:50:22 PM Eastern Standard Time, Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com> writes:

> "Whiskey" and "Whisky" are both distilled products of grain.  There are 
> more than three.  Irish, Scotch, Bourbon, Sour Mash, and Rye are the 
> major categories.  All have distinctive qualities.  Sour Mash is made 
> from a mash that's allowed to turn sour before distillation.  Rye 
> whiskey can be made straight or blended (same with Scotch and Bourbon).  
> Single Malt Scotch and Single Cask Bourbon all the most distinctive 
> because they are the purest expression of the distiller's arts.   Some 
> blended scotch (such as Johnny Walker Blue Label) can be as rare and 
> expensive as the best single malts.
> 
> Best, R.E.F.



For those of us who have never tried any of these drinks, where would
be a good place to start? Also, are these drunk with ice or straight
up? I tried some cheap Cognac several years ago and seemed a bit much,
but I had just turned 21 and had little experience with any alcohol.

Jim
(Trying to be more sophisticated than drinking beer)



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Good evening,

  Yet again I make an exception to my no-posting policy, since I felt I
had something to contribute here. What kind of whiskey (or whisky) one
prefers is very much a matter of taste, though I would recommend staying
with those from countries where what can be called whiskey is regulated by
law (I know only of Scotland, Ireland, USA, Canada and Japan, but that
information may be out-of-date.) Other countries may, or may not, make
good whiskey - I have searched long and in vain for Old Piss, apparently
made somewhere in Asia, and Queen George, which is rumoured to come from
a South American country (the name of which eludes me.) If you are new to
(Scottish) whiskey, you might want to stay clear of Islay until you have
acquired a taste for the smoke, tar and peat usually associated with
these. I would recommend Highland and Lowland whiskeys for starters, or
Campbelltown's masterpiece, Springbank, if you can afford it. (I can't.)

  But I digress. My original intent was to clear up any confusion about
how many times whiskey is distilled. Scottish whiskey is distilled twice
as a rule, although there are exceptions, e.g., Auchentochan, which is
distilled thrice, making it somewhat gentler on your taste buds.  Irish
whiskey is generally triple distilled.


Have a nice day,

-o



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Subject: Re:
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
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On Friday, February 1, 2002, at 01:34 PM, Dun Xiahou wrote:

> To clear up everything, I dug up the following from
> the ATF regulations:
>
> ---------------------------------------------
> PART 5 SUBPART C--STANDARDS OF IDENTITY FOR DISTILLED
> SPIRITS:
>
> ...
> 5.22
> (b) Class 2; whisky
> ...
>
> (2)"Whiskey distilled from bourbon (rye, wheat, malt,
> or rye malt) mash" is whisky produced in the United
> States at not exceeding 160 proof from a fermented
> mash of not less than 51 percent corn, rye, wheat,
> malted barley, or malted rye grain, respectively, and
> stored in used oak containers; and also includes
> mixtures of such whiskies of the same type.  Whisky
> conforming to the standard of identity for corn whisky
> must be designated corn Whisky.
>
> ...
>
> (7)"Scotch whisky" is whisky which is a distinctive
> product of Scotland, manufactured in Scotland in
> compliance with the laws of the United Kingdom
> regulating the manufacture of Scotch whisky for
> consumption in the United Kingdom: Provided, That if
> such product is a mixture of whiskies, such mixture is
> "blended Scotch whisky" (Scotch whisky--a blend)
> ---------------------------------------------
>
> You were right about Scotch.  I appologize.  However,
> I am correct that bourbon need only come from the
> United States.  So yes, I can make bourbon in New
> Jersey and call it bourbon.  Also, there is no
> designation "Tennessee Whisky."  As such, one would
> presume that you can call any whisky "Tennessee
> whisky" as long as it adheres to at least one of the
> regulations regarding whisky.  Most Tennessee whiskies
> however, are technically classified as "bourbon
> whiskies due to the way the are produced, and the fact
> that they are manufactured in the United States.
>
> So it seems we both were right about some points and
> wrong about others.  It's no wonder why so many people
> find such classifications confusing, myself included.
>
> - Cao's general
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions!
> http://auctions.yahoo.com
>
>
>
>

I believe the ATF doesn't have a thing to do with the designation 
"Bourbon."  I believe that's a function of laws past in the state of 
Kentucky, and enforced by the Federal Trade Commission.  I do know that 
I've never seen a "Bourbon" from anywhere else but Kentucky.  I do know 
I've seen a lot of "whiskey" from other places.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2002 16:34:31 -0800
Subject: Re: 
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Friday, February 1, 2002, at 01:44 PM, Jimmre@aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated Fri, 1 Feb 2002  2:50:22 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
> Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com> writes:
>
>> "Whiskey" and "Whisky" are both distilled products of grain.  There are
>> more than three.  Irish, Scotch, Bourbon, Sour Mash, and Rye are the
>> major categories.  All have distinctive qualities.  Sour Mash is made
>> from a mash that's allowed to turn sour before distillation.  Rye
>> whiskey can be made straight or blended (same with Scotch and Bourbon).
>> Single Malt Scotch and Single Cask Bourbon all the most distinctive
>> because they are the purest expression of the distiller's arts.   Some
>> blended scotch (such as Johnny Walker Blue Label) can be as rare and
>> expensive as the best single malts.
>>
>> Best, R.E.F.
>
>
>
> For those of us who have never tried any of these
> drinks, where would be a good place to start? Also, are these drunk 
> with ice or straight up? I tried some cheap Cognac several years ago 
> and seemed a bit much, but I had just turned 21 and had little 
> experience with any alcohol.
>

Distilled spirits can be hard to take at first.  They flavors are 
pungent, very complex, and difficult to identify to the untrained 
palate.  That's why most of us stated with sweet drinks, such as Rum and 
Coke, Bourbon and Seven-up, Vodka and Cranberry Juice, etc.

Cheap cognac gives you all the draw-backs of cognac with none of the 
benefits.  The most expensive cognac on the planet, Remy Martin's Louis 
XIII, is something incredible to taste.  At about $90 a glass, it's not 
for everyone's budget, but one taste and you'll get what the howl is 
about.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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References: <20020201050630.15370.c000-h009.c000.wm@mail.space.com.criticalpath.net>
Subject: Re:
Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2002 20:28:03 -0600
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re:
Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2002 20:28:03 -0600
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

    May I point out that "weed" is an artificial term used by humans
to denote only unwanted plants in controlled areas.  I.e anything
but grass in a lawn, or even a flower out of place in a flowerbed.
Even many wildflowers are regarded as weeds, while many
non-flowering plants are treasured but are actually not indigenous
and consequently destructive to an ecosystem.  All in all the term
"weed" is a lousy word to describe any member of the Kingdom
Plantae.

-James

----- Original Message -----
From: <dreamfish@space.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Friday, February 01, 2002 7:06 AM
Subject: Re:


> Tim Nicholas wrote
>
> >
> > On Fri, Feb 01, 2002 at 07:19:56AM -0000, James
> Culshaw wrote:
> > > Just thought I would share this with you:
> > >
> > > Its only a thistle if the flower is purple. If its
> white its not a thistle
> > > its a weed.
> >
> > Thistles are weeds too.<g>
> >
>
>
> But milk thistle, even though a weed, can be used for
> liver ailments.
>
> Anita
>
>
>  'Every happy ending needs to have a start.'
>
> ___________________________________________________________________
> Join the Space Program: Get FREE E-mail at http://www.space.com.
>



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References: <7E241DAA-1773-11D6-BAC6-003065A8A644@bittersea.com>
Subject: Re:
Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2002 20:31:40 -0600
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re:
Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2002 20:31:40 -0600
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I have.  New Orleans.

> I believe the ATF doesn't have a thing to do with the designation
> "Bourbon."  I believe that's a function of laws past in the state of
> Kentucky, and enforced by the Federal Trade Commission.  I do know that
> I've never seen a "Bourbon" from anywhere else but Kentucky.  I do know
> I've seen a lot of "whiskey" from other places.
>
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
>
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
> stupidity.
>



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From: "A Irving" <aignome@dingoblue.net.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
References: <200201281454.JAA168112@archa8.cc.uga.edu><Pine.GSO.4.44.0201281558070.19359-100000@mir43.ida.liu.se> <KnN8EyFUpXV8EwzG@bloodaxe.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: VIRUS: new photos from my party!
Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2002 12:40:45 +1000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "A Irving" <aignome@dingoblue.net.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: VIRUS: new photos from my party!
Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2002 12:40:45 +1000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I quite like my university firewall. I got the email with the message below
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
WARNING: This e-mail has been altered by mail systems at
Information Technology Services at The University of Queensland
(www.its.uq.edu.au)
Following this paragraph are indications of the actual
changes made.

The attachment www.myparty.yahoo.com has been dropped as it contains
W32/MyParty-A virus.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------
I am just backf rom holidays and I must say the list is pretty quiet at the
moment. I use to have hundreds of emails in a week from here, but now most
of my emails were from the Katharine Kerr list. I hope this means Ray is
busy writing :)
----- Original Message -----
From: Andrea J Chee <andrea@bloodaxe.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2002 2:20 AM
Subject: VIRUS: new photos from my party!


> In article <Pine.GSO.4.44.0201281558070.19359-100000@mir43.ida.liu.se>,
> Ola Angelsmark <olaan@ida.liu.se> writes
> >
> >  I usually do not post here, I prefer to just enjoy the fruits of your
> >labor, but I felt compelled to point out that the 'new photos from my
> >party!' mail matches the description of a virus our sys admin here warned
> >about today.
>
> Confirmed:
>
> http://www.symantec.com/avcenter/venc/data/w32.myparty@mm.html
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/sci/tech/newsid_1787000/1787265.stm
>
> - ANDREA
>
> --
>   Get PAID for the emails you already send and receive!
> http://www.mailround.com/  Referrer: andrea@bloodaxe.com
> ^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^
>                   ANDROMEDA - Internet Goddess
> <andrea@bloodaxe.com>                    http://www.bloodaxe.com/
> Bloodaxe's History Links:   http://www.geocities.com/Athens/5055/
> The Loony Bin Archive:               http://loonies.net800.co.uk/
>



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2002 21:46:26 -0500
Subject: Re: Bob Ezrin
From: Bob Montgomery <dante@kingcon.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Friday, February 1, 2002, at 04:29 PM, Raymond Feist wrote:

>
> On Friday, February 1, 2002, at 12:02 PM, <lists@bjs.org.uk> wrote:
>
>>
>> Ray,
>>
>> Is Bob Ezrin the same as the producer of Hanoi Rocks's producer on Two 
>> Steps
>> from the Move, and many others as well.
>>
>> If so, please take you hat off to him next time you see him for an 
>> excellent
>> job.
>>
>>
>> (Krondor: Tear of the Gods is dedicated to Bob Ezrin, who has been a 
>> great
>> friend and help to Ray).
>>
>> BJS
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> Same guy.  Produced Pink Floyd, Kiss, Alice Cooper, Roger Daltry, etc.
>
> Best, R.E.F>
> ----
>
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
> stupidity.
>
>

"Each man has his price, Bob, and yours was pretty low."
Roger Waters
Amused to Death

Yes, that's the same Bob Ezrin, though not highly regarded by Rog' after 
1984, as the above lyric indicates (and yes, it is directly addressing 
Bob Ezrin and as to what it pertains, it's not relevant here really).

Oh, and having nothing of value to add to the whiskey discussion, I like 
Seagrams 7-Crown with a little ginger ale and lime personally <G>



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From: Sam Bridger <sam@samyool.freeserve.co.uk>
Subject: Whisky versus Whiskey (was Re: )
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Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2002 00:42:27 -0600
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Sam Bridger <sam@samyool.freeserve.co.uk>
Subject: Whisky versus Whiskey (was Re: )
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>
>"Whiskey" and "Whisky" are both distilled products of grain.  There are 
>more than three.  Irish, Scotch, Bourbon, Sour Mash, and Rye are the major 
>categories.  All have distinctive qualities.  Sour Mash is made from a 
>mash that's allowed to turn sour before distillation.  Rye whiskey can be 
>made straight or blended (same with Scotch and Bourbon).
>Single Malt Scotch and Single Cask Bourbon all the most distinctive 
>because they are the purest expression of the distiller's arts.   Some 
>blended scotch (such as Johnny Walker Blue Label) can be as rare and 
>expensive as the best single malts.

<delurk>

Can't remember when, or if, this has been mentioned before, but there's a 
difference between 'Whisky' and 'Whiskey' which is purely geographical.

Whisky comes from Scotland; whiskey comes from everywhere else, as per the 
description offered by the OED.

-S

p.s. for those who remember/care, the move went well. We're now settled 
here on the other side of the pond, and about to move into a new house :)

</delurk>



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Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2002 23:23:54 -0800
Subject: Re: Bob Ezrin
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2002 23:23:54 -0800
Subject: Re: Bob Ezrin
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Friday, February 1, 2002, at 06:46 PM, Bob Montgomery wrote:

>
> On Friday, February 1, 2002, at 04:29 PM, Raymond Feist wrote:
>
>>
>> On Friday, February 1, 2002, at 12:02 PM, <lists@bjs.org.uk> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Ray,
>>>
>>> Is Bob Ezrin the same as the producer of Hanoi Rocks's producer on 
>>> Two Steps
>>> from the Move, and many others as well.
>>>
>>> If so, please take you hat off to him next time you see him for an 
>>> excellent
>>> job.
>>>
>>>
>>> (Krondor: Tear of the Gods is dedicated to Bob Ezrin, who has been a 
>>> great
>>> friend and help to Ray).
>>>
>>> BJS
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Same guy.  Produced Pink Floyd, Kiss, Alice Cooper, Roger Daltry, etc.
>>
>> Best, R.E.F>
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.
>>
>>
>
> "Each man has his price, Bob, and yours was pretty low."
> Roger Waters
> Amused to Death
>
> Yes, that's the same Bob Ezrin, though not highly regarded by Rog' 
> after 1984, as the above lyric indicates (and yes, it is directly 
> addressing Bob Ezrin and as to what it pertains, it's not relevant here 
> really).

What it pertains to is that Roger Walters is a horse's ass.  Bob Ezrin 
was the only producer on the planet who could have gotten David Gilmore 
and Roger Walters back together to finish Division Bell.  They're both 
prima donnas, and Roger thinks HE is Pink Floyd, even though he wasn't a 
founder.
>
Best, R.E.F.



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*** EOOH ***
From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Farewell
Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2002 17:58:15 +0800
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I was at one stage a semi-frequent poster on this list. Alas my time has
not been so much my own the last few months and I'm 800 or so messages
behind. This all seems far too daunting a task for me to approach at
this stage and as such I am leaving the list for a period. Perhaps when
things settle down I shall rejoin anew.

Thanks for some interesting threads guys and it's been great having the
interaction with you Ray. I shall possibly see you at some future time,
until then - farewell



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*** EOOH ***
From: "Nevyn" <alien4@wasp.net.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re:
Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2002 20:40:59 +0800
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I just LOVE the Double Standards on this list. I get blasted for sending and
offtopic msg and now theres about four billion off topic messages and it
seems fine. Hm. Ok
:-)

----- Original Message -----
From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>; <FEISTFANS-L>
Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2002 10:31 AM
Subject: Re:


> I have.  New Orleans.
>
> > I believe the ATF doesn't have a thing to do with the designation
> > "Bourbon."  I believe that's a function of laws past in the state
> of
> > Kentucky, and enforced by the Federal Trade Commission.  I do know
> that
> > I've never seen a "Bourbon" from anywhere else but Kentucky.  I do
> know
> > I've seen a lot of "whiskey" from other places.
> >
> > Best, R.E.F.
> > ----
> >
> > Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained
> away by
> > stupidity.
> >
>



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Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2002 08:09:53 -0500
Subject: Re: Bob Ezrin
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2002 08:09:53 -0500
Subject: Re: Bob Ezrin
From: Bob Montgomery <dante@kingcon.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Ah, you must be a friend of Bob's then, eh? I couldn't care less about 
the breakdown in the relationship between he and Rog'. I'm sure if you 
and he are friends, you got one particular spin of whatever occurred; 
there are always more than one side to a story, though. I certainly 
don't know him, nor do I hold any dislike for him.

Yes, Gilmour and Rog' are both egomaniacs, but Rog is no more a horse's 
ass the Gilmour. And as for who's the heart of that band, from 1967 to 
1984, he was the driving musical and lyrical force that made PF what it 
was. David, Nick and Rick can whine all they want about it, but the 
liner notes on any given album in that period bear witness to the role 
of Roger Waters in Pink Floyd. And while I think it a horrible stroke of 
luck they could get their collective asses out of their heads and work 
it out so more great music could happen (Division Bell, incidently, is 
an awful collection, though not nearly as wretched as A Momentary Lapse 
of Talent/Reason), that's the way things work sometimes. Kinda like 
having to buy one of your books from the UK because it's not available 
in the US...

This is more than widely documented, Ray, so I don't feel the need to 
quote relevant sources... needless to say, I know my PF history, and I 
don't see the point in boring everyone else on a Feist fan list with 
more than the following, but I do need to refute at least one factually 
incorrect statement you made.

Early 1964, the Floyd-to-be formed as ``Sigma 6.'' They then changed to 
``The T-Set'' (``Tea Set''), then ``The Meggadeaths,'' ``The Screaming 
Abdabs,'' and simply ``The Abdabs.'' At this point, the band's 
membership consisted of:

     Roger Waters, lead guitar
     Clive Metcalf, bass
     Richard Wright, keyboards
     Nick Mason, drums
     Juliette Gale, vocals
     Keith Noble, vocals

NOTE: contrary to popular belief, the band was never known as ``The 
Architectural Abdabs.'' This was merely the headline from an article 
about the band in the polytechnics school paper. The article is 
reprinted in the ``In The Flesh'' book.

The Abdabs mostly played rhythm and blues songs. Juliette later married 
Wright, and she, Noble, and Metcalf all quit the band. Waters then 
brought in Bob Klose and Syd Barrett for guitars, followed by Chris 
Dennis to be the lead vocalist. Dennis was soon called for duty by the 
Royal Air Force, however, and several months later Klose left, leaving 
the original recorded Pink Floyd lineup. In late '65, they became ``The 
Pink Floyd Sound,'' then just ``The Pink Floyd.'' The name ``Pink 
Floyd'' came from albums by two Carolina blues artists, Pink Anderson 
and Floyd Council, who were in Syd Barrett's collection.

In 1967, David Gilmour was asked to join the band because of Syd's 
widely documented mental health problems that had been compounded by 
drug use. The band played as a five-piece for two shows; on the date of 
the third show, they simply didn't pick up Syd.

And if you and Bob are close, give him my regards on his work with the 
real Floyd. How he survived The Wall recordings is beyond me... by all 
accounts, he must have had the patience of a saint.

Best,

Bob

On Saturday, February 2, 2002, at 02:23 AM, Raymond Feist wrote:

> What it pertains to is that Roger Walters is a horse's ass.  Bob Ezrin 
> was the only producer on the planet who could have gotten David Gilmore 
> and Roger Walters back together to finish Division Bell.  They're both 
> prima donnas, and Roger thinks HE is Pink Floyd, even though he wasn't 
> a founder.
>>
> Best, R.E.F.

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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2002 14:11:33 +0100
From: Erik Trulsson <ertr1013@student.uu.se>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Sat, Feb 02, 2002 at 08:40:59PM +0800, Nevyn wrote:
> I just LOVE the Double Standards on this list. I get blasted for sending and
> offtopic msg and now theres about four billion off topic messages and it
> seems fine. Hm. Ok
> :-)

You seem to have missed the fact that anything REF wants to talk about
is, by definition, on-topic on this list.  If he wants to discuss the
difference between various whiskey variants then the thread is not
off-topic.

Note also that there is a difference between starting an off-topic
thread and having an on-topic thread drift off into off-topic
territory.  (The former is not acceptable while the latter is tolerated
as long as it doesn't get out of hand too much.)


> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
> To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>; <FEISTFANS-L>
> Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2002 10:31 AM
> Subject: Re:
> 
> 
> > I have.  New Orleans.
> >
> > > I believe the ATF doesn't have a thing to do with the designation
> > > "Bourbon."  I believe that's a function of laws past in the state
> > of
> > > Kentucky, and enforced by the Federal Trade Commission.  I do know
> > that
> > > I've never seen a "Bourbon" from anywhere else but Kentucky.  I do
> > know
> > > I've seen a lot of "whiskey" from other places.
> > >
> > > Best, R.E.F.
> > > ----
> > >
> > > Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained
> > away by
> > > stupidity.
> > >
> >
> 

-- 
<Insert your favourite quote here.>
Erik Trulsson
ertr1013@student.uu.se



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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Barker" <heechee@softhome.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Farewell
Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2002 00:17:03 +1100
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----- Original Message ----- 
From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2002 8:58 PM
Subject: Farewell


> I was at one stage a semi-frequent poster on this list. Alas my time has
> not been so much my own the last few months and I'm 800 or so messages
> behind. This all seems far too daunting a task for me to approach at
> this stage and as such I am leaving the list for a period. Perhaps when
> things settle down I shall rejoin anew.
> 
> Thanks for some interesting threads guys and it's been great having the
> interaction with you Ray. I shall possibly see you at some future time,
> until then - farewell
> 

Adios David, good luck with everything.

Cheers,
James



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*** EOOH ***
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Nevyn" <alien4@wasp.net.au>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2002 11:40 PM
Subject: Re:


> I just LOVE the Double Standards on this list. I get blasted for sending and
> offtopic msg and now theres about four billion off topic messages and it
> seems fine. Hm. Ok
> :-)
>

*Grins*

Nice try, but nope. The general feeling is that if Ray's interested in it,
then it's on-topic by default.

Cheers,
James



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Subject: Re: Bob Ezrin
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2002 09:11:48 -0500
Subject: Re: Bob Ezrin
From: Bob Montgomery <dante@kingcon.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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Out of curiosity, did Ezrin have a hand in the music for the Krondor 
games? It just struck me that maybe he was involved with the music, but 
I haven't played either game in ages and ages, so I don't remember 
whether he was in the credits.


On Friday, February 1, 2002, at 04:29 PM, Raymond Feist wrote:

> Same guy.  Produced Pink Floyd, Kiss, Alice Cooper, Roger Daltry, etc.
>
> Best, R.E.F>



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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re:
Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2002 10:33:11 -0600
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Ray has an interest in Alcohol, particular Wines and Whiskeys.  The
question was addressed to him initially and was carried on by him.
And as the rule goes: if Ray wants to talk about it, it is on-topic.
Since this is his list it is an acceptable double standard.

-James

----- Original Message -----
From: "Nevyn" <alien4@wasp.net.au>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2002 6:40 AM
Subject: Re:


> I just LOVE the Double Standards on this list. I get blasted for sending and
> offtopic msg and now theres about four billion off topic messages and it
> seems fine. Hm. Ok
> :-)
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
> To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>; <FEISTFANS-L>
> Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2002 10:31 AM
> Subject: Re:
>
>
> > I have.  New Orleans.
> >
> > > I believe the ATF doesn't have a thing to do with the designation
> > > "Bourbon."  I believe that's a function of laws past in the state
> > of
> > > Kentucky, and enforced by the Federal Trade Commission.  I do know
> > that
> > > I've never seen a "Bourbon" from anywhere else but Kentucky. I do
> > know
> > > I've seen a lot of "whiskey" from other places.
> > >
> > > Best, R.E.F.
> > > ----
> > >
> > > Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained
> > away by
> > > stupidity.
> > >
> >
>



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2002 10:52:09 -0800
Subject: Re: Bob Ezrin
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Saturday, February 2, 2002, at 05:09 AM, Bob Montgomery wrote:

> Ah, you must be a friend of Bob's then, eh? I couldn't care less about 
> the breakdown in the relationship between he and Rog'. I'm sure if you 
> and he are friends, you got one particular spin of whatever occurred; 
> there are always more than one side to a story, though. I certainly 
> don't know him, nor do I hold any dislike for him.
>
> Yes, Gilmour and Rog' are both egomaniacs, but Rog is no more a horse's 
> ass the Gilmour.

Never said Gilmour wasn't, either.  Just pointing out that Roger is 
dumping on Bob because of problems Roger has with his former mates.

>  And as for who's the heart of that band, from 1967 to 1984, he was the 
> driving musical and lyrical force that made PF what it was. David, Nick 
> and Rick can whine all they want about it, but the liner notes on any 
> given album in that period bear witness to the role of Roger Waters in 
> Pink Floyd. And while I think it a horrible stroke of luck they could 
> get their collective asses out of their heads and work it out so more 
> great music could happen (Division Bell, incidently, is an awful 
> collection, though not nearly as wretched as A Momentary Lapse of 
> Talent/Reason), that's the way things work sometimes. Kinda like having 
> to buy one of your books from the UK because it's not available in the 
> US...

Division Bell was the end game.  The real achievement was Bob getting 
the Wall produced.
>
[snip]

Just consider the source, is what I'm saying.  Roger is a horse's ass.  
Ezrin is one of the most ethical, generous, honest human beings I've had 
the pleasure of knowing, and he's pretty much without ego when it comes 
to other people's creative processes, which is probably why he could get 
Floyd to finish those two projects.

Ironically, working with Floyd wasn't even his most difficult job.  Rod 
Stewart gave him even more problems, and right now he's banging his head 
against a wall trying to save Alex Rose's long overdue solo album.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2002 10:53:15 -0800
Subject: Re: Bob Ezrin
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Saturday, February 2, 2002, at 06:11 AM, Bob Montgomery wrote:

> Out of curiosity, did Ezrin have a hand in the music for the Krondor 
> games? It just struck me that maybe he was involved with the music, but 
> I haven't played either game in ages and ages, so I don't remember 
> whether he was in the credits.
>

Not the first one, which was done in-house by a guy with a computer at 
Dynamix.  He had some input with the second game, but not much, leaving 
that to the composers.  Bob's a "if it's not broken, don't fix it" guy.

Best,R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
From: Gkhd11a@aol.com
Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2002 14:24:33 EST
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       A MMORPG would be a bad mistake, there are so many in development and 
only a limited amount of people who are interested in them.  I don't know 
anybody who is a subscriber to 2 or more MMORPG's, so unless it would be a 
huge hit, it would probably fall in month or two.

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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2002 15:28:04 -0500
Subject: Re: Bob Ezrin
From: Bob Montgomery <dante@kingcon.com>
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I always got that sense about him... in all the interviews I've read and 
watched, he's always regarded as a non-meddler, unlike many other 
producers who feel compelled to interject their ego's on a work.


On Saturday, February 2, 2002, at 01:53 PM, Raymond Feist wrote:

> Not the first one, which was done in-house by a guy with a computer at 
> Dynamix.  He had some input with the second game, but not much, leaving 
> that to the composers.  Bob's a "if it's not broken, don't fix it" guy.
>
> Best,R.E.F.



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2002 16:10:16 -0500
Subject: Re: Bob Ezrin
From: Bob Montgomery <dante@kingcon.com>
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On Saturday, February 2, 2002, at 01:52 PM, Raymond Feist wrote:

> Never said Gilmour wasn't, either.  Just pointing out that Roger is 
> dumping on Bob because of problems Roger has with his former mates.

As an outsider, I certainly don't have quite the insight you might have, 
being close to Bob, but I think Roger felt betrayed after the real 
fallout of The Final Cut and The Pros and Cons and the subsequent 
nonsense, which is most of that particular lyric. Right or wrong, that's 
always been my impression. Whether his sense of betrayal was justified 
or not, it's not my place to say; nor do I think it's anyone's but those 
involved.

>   The real achievement was Bob getting the Wall produced

You are not kidding there... I've read and watched every scrap of 
interview and report on that recording process, and by all accounts it 
was madness. Although I don't know Bob Ezrin, I have always marvelled at 
his ability to get those louts to the table and get anything done. Is 
The Wall the best project it could have been, had Roger not been such a 
control freak? No, I'd wager that if they'd worked together more like 
they did during the recording of Meddle and Dark Side, it would have 
been far better. Of course, if half of what was reported is true, it 
wasn't just Roger's control issues that made those disturbingly hard 
sessions.

> Just consider the source, is what I'm saying.  Roger is a horse's ass.  
> Ezrin is one of the most ethical, generous, honest human beings I've 
> had the pleasure of knowing, and he's pretty much without ego when it 
> comes to other people's creative processes, which is probably why he 
> could get Floyd to finish those two projects.

Now, the question is, who is the source? If you're the source, Ray, than 
I have to consider it just another armchair quarterback opinion, since 
you're as much of an outsider to the process as anyone else, including 
me... but if that's directly from Bob Ezrin, than the slur actually has 
some substance, though, it's still just one side of a very complicated 
issue. Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to stand up and tout Roger's 
personality or behavior, or dismiss Bob Ezrin... I just think calling 
names is undermines any discussion.

Honestly, I never been deluded into thinking that Roger was even 
remotely rational about control issues, but having met him during the 
first In the Flesh Tours a few years back, and watching all the recent 
interviews, I really think he's mellowed. He was personable, pleasant 
and in very good spirits in person, and the tours (I saw five shows over 
the two tours) were excellent. I think your blanket declaration that 
he's a horses ass speaks to his mindset 15 years ago, not necessarily 
now. He is an admitted control freak, and if I'd been in Bob's place, 
I'm certain I wouldn't have had the patience with any of the band 
members; and I'm fairly sure I would have been kicking all of their 
asses to make them realize the need to cooperate and let go and not 
linger on petty ego issues about who's song got on the album or how that 
solo line got played.

I've been a fan of Roger's work since I can remember; I can't say I've 
always been a fan of his behaviour, though. He may have been a horse's 
ass, but he's one of the most important and powerful lyricists and 
composers of the last 40 years. I have no delusions of a PF reunion, nor 
can I envision one that would have any value, but I hold out hope that 
Roger may yet work with people like Bob Ezrin again... Bob has a knack 
for bringing out the best in artists. I'd also like to see a mellowed 
Roger work with a mellowed Clapton again, as a sort of revisiting of The 
Pros and Cons sessions, as well as more work with Jeff Beck, who did 
some astoundingly beautiful work with Rog' on Amused to Death. Honestly, 
I think Don Henley influenced him a little bit during the recordings for 
Amused to Death to mellow out and stop living in the past. In interviews 
with both, it sounds as though they had some very positive 
conversations. Granted, Henley's a bit of a goof sometimes, but I think 
he genuinely means well <G>

> Ironically, working with Floyd wasn't even his most difficult job.  Rod 
> Stewart gave him even more problems, and right now he's banging his 
> head against a wall trying to save Alex Rose's long overdue solo album.

Rod Stewart??? No way! Now that's funny. Alex Rose? Not familiar with 
him... seriously, do you mean Axl Rose of Guns N' Roses? If so, my 
question is this: Why bother? <G> I'm guessing, though, that you're 
referring to someone else... I have a hard time imaging someone with 
Bob's credentials and talents working with someone  like Axl Rose <G>

best,

bob



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2002 18:48:31 -0800
Subject: Re: Bob Ezrin
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
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On Saturday, February 2, 2002, at 01:10 PM, Bob Montgomery wrote:

> [snip]
> Now, the question is, who is the source? If you're the source, Ray, 
> than I have to consider it just another armchair quarterback opinion, 
> since you're as much of an outsider to the process as anyone else, 
> including me... but if that's directly from Bob Ezrin, than the slur 
> actually has some substance, though, it's still just one side of a very 
> complicated issue. Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to stand up and 
> tout Roger's personality or behavior, or dismiss Bob Ezrin... I just 
> think calling names is undermines any discussion.
>

Let's put it this way,.  I'm forming my opinion from things said to me 
by Bob and by Scot Page, who played on both sessions, and from what I 
can judge, both from Bob's character and from what Scot has told me (and 
he's far more candid and less diplomatic than Bob) Roger was the problem 
child in the mix.  Gilmore wasn't much better, but David at least caved 
a couple of times towards Roger's demands which allowed the process to 
go through.

> Honestly, I never been deluded into thinking that Roger was even 
> remotely rational about control issues, but having met him during the 
> first In the Flesh Tours a few years back, and watching all the recent 
> interviews, I really think he's mellowed. He was personable, pleasant 
> and in very good spirits in person, and the tours (I saw five shows 
> over the two tours) were excellent. I think your blanket declaration 
> that he's a horses ass speaks to his mindset 15 years ago, not 
> necessarily now. He is an admitted control freak, and if I'd been in 
> Bob's place, I'm certain I wouldn't have had the patience with any of 
> the band members; and I'm fairly sure I would have been kicking all of 
> their asses to make them realize the need to cooperate and let go and 
> not linger on petty ego issues about who's song got on the album or how 
> that solo line got played.

I have no doubt Waters can be all you observed, when dealing with the 
public.  I'm speaking specifically of his treatment of Gilmore and the 
other members of the band during the production of The Wall and Division 
Bell.  BTW, the animus between Bob and Roger has little to do with the 
actual sessions themselves, but has far more to do with the fall out 
from some legal issues around the production of the movie and some 
contractual problems that arose from that.
>
> I've been a fan of Roger's work since I can remember; I can't say I've 
> always been a fan of his behaviour, though. He may have been a horse's 
> ass, but he's one of the most important and powerful lyricists and 
> composers of the last 40 years. I have no delusions of a PF reunion, 
> nor can I envision one that would have any value, but I hold out hope 
> that Roger may yet work with people like Bob Ezrin again... Bob has a 
> knack for bringing out the best in artists. I'd also like to see a 
> mellowed Roger work with a mellowed Clapton again, as a sort of 
> revisiting of The Pros and Cons sessions, as well as more work with 
> Jeff Beck, who did some astoundingly beautiful work with Rog' on Amused 
> to Death. Honestly, I think Don Henley influenced him a little bit 
> during the recordings for Amused to Death to mellow out and stop living 
> in the past. In interviews with both, it sounds as though they had some 
> very positive conversations. Granted, Henley's a bit of a goof 
> sometimes, but I think he genuinely means well <G>

Your mileage may vary Dept.  I've never been a fan of Floyd and find a 
lot of their work tedious.
>
>> Ironically, working with Floyd wasn't even his most difficult job.  
>> Rod Stewart gave him even more problems, and right now he's banging 
>> his head against a wall trying to save Alex Rose's long overdue solo 
>> album.
>
> Rod Stewart??? No way! Now that's funny.

Story I'm not free to repeat, but trust me, Bob would rather march back 
and do another Floyd album in an locked room than deal with some of the 
stuff Rod put him through.  Prima donna is the term.

>  Alex Rose? Not familiar with him... seriously, do you mean Axl Rose of 
> Guns N' Roses? If so, my question is this: Why bother? <G> I'm 
> guessing, though, that you're referring to someone else... I have a 
> hard time imaging someone with Bob's credentials and talents working 
> with someone  like Axl Rose <G>

Typo.  Axl Rose.  The reason is the record company has millions tied up 
in the project and would like to salvage some of it.  Bob has a 
reputation for being able to work with problem children, as well as new 
groups, and if he can't get Axl's album finished, it will probably never 
be released.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2002 20:08:05 -0800
From: Carl Dershem <dershem@cox.net>
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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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Raymond Feist wrote:
> 
> >> Ironically, working with Floyd wasn't even his most difficult job.
> >> Rod Stewart gave him even more problems, and right now he's banging
> >> his head against a wall trying to save Alex Rose's long overdue solo
> >> album.
> >
> > Rod Stewart??? No way! Now that's funny.
> 
> Story I'm not free to repeat, but trust me, Bob would rather march back
> and do another Floyd album in an locked room than deal with some of the
> stuff Rod put him through.  Prima donna is the term.

Having worked with/for Stewart myself, I can guarantee he's a real pain
in the ass.  He pays well, but you earn every cent.

cd
-- 
Death to all Absolutists!



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2002 10:38:32 -0500
Subject: Re: Bob Ezrin
From: Bob Montgomery <dante@kingcon.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Saturday, February 2, 2002, at 09:48 PM, Raymond Feist wrote:

> Story I'm not free to repeat, but trust me, Bob would rather march back 
> and do another Floyd album in an locked room than deal with some of the 
> stuff Rod put him through.  Prima donna is the term.

Now that is funny... I can just imagine. I mean, Stewart's songs usually 
are wildly cocksure, so I can totally believe he's the same in person <G>

> Typo.  Axl Rose.  The reason is the record company has millions tied up 
> in the project and would like to salvage some of it.  Bob has a 
> reputation for being able to work with problem children, as well as new 
> groups, and if he can't get Axl's album finished, it will probably 
> never be released.

I was worried it was a typo <G> I had heard about Rose's solo album, and 
I can understand the theory behind Ezrin salvaging it (since he is 
likely the best man for the job), but it's still a bit scary to 
consider. I have no love for record companies, so I couldn't care less 
about whatever money they spent (since they likely stole it from dozens 
of other real artists through sleazy contracts...), and since I'm not 
much of a fan of anything Axl Rose's has done, it would be fine with me 
if it never hit the streets... let Bob know that he'd be doing a public 
service to shelve the album and spare us all <G> That way he could move 
on to something more rewarding, like fishing or  writing a book about 
his adventures in the studio. Now THAT would be a great read... I wonder 
if he's ever considered it; you could help, since you must have loads of 
free time <G>

It's also a bit scary to consider that I'm discussing one of my favorite 
band with one of my favorite authors... surreal anyone? <G> BTW, since 
you're not much of a Floyd fan, what types of music do you enjoy? I 
worked in a music store for about four years, and I've played 
instruments for nearly 20 years, so I'm a bit of a music geek. I listen 
to nearly everything (except pop/country and top 40 pop), so I always 
find it fascinating what other people listen to and enjoy. Let me take 
some guesses, just for fun :) I could see you enjoying jazz, real jazz, 
though, not pop jazz; people like Parker and Gillespie and Monk, maybe 
Davis, but that one's iffy. I bet you also like a bit of good old 
fashioned rock and roll, too. Maybe Chuck Berry, Beatles, Stones. And 
for some reason, Bob Dylan comes to mind. I'd wager you also like some 
orchestral stuff, classical in origin. I can very well imagine your 
tastes vary quite a lot :) I'm miles off, aren't I? <G> You like Tanya 
Tucker and think Hank Williams Jr. is a god, right? <G>

Also, just finished Shards again, as the last book in my total reread of 
the entire catalog for fun. Is there any form of bribery I could 
undertake to get that Conclave series moved up? <G> You are a luxury as 
an author, Ray. You seem to release a book every year or so, which 
amazes me. Conversely, the only Stephen King series that I read, the 
Dark Tower series, comes out so infrequently that I almost forget about 
it sometimes (9 years between book three and four!!). I don't have much 
interested in his other stuff, but your world and that world are my two 
favorite literary lands... it's just nice to be able to visit one of 
them on a regular basis. So thanks Ray, for working like a damn dog. If 
I wasn't enjoying this little discussion so much, I'd be pleading and 
prodding you to get back to those coming books <G>

best

bob



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2002 09:56:45 -0800
Subject: Re: Bob Ezrin
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Sunday, February 3, 2002, at 07:38 AM, Bob Montgomery wrote:

> It's also a bit scary to consider that I'm discussing one of my 
> favorite band with one of my favorite authors... surreal anyone? <G> 
> BTW, since you're not much of a Floyd fan, what types of music do you 
> enjoy? I worked in a music store for about four years, and I've played 
> instruments for nearly 20 years, so I'm a bit of a music geek. I listen 
> to nearly everything (except pop/country and top 40 pop), so I always 
> find it fascinating what other people listen to and enjoy. Let me take 
> some guesses, just for fun :) I could see you enjoying jazz, real jazz, 
> though, not pop jazz; people like Parker and Gillespie and Monk, maybe 
> Davis, but that one's iffy. I bet you also like a bit of good old 
> fashioned rock and roll, too. Maybe Chuck Berry, Beatles, Stones. And 
> for some reason, Bob Dylan comes to mind. I'd wager you also like some 
> orchestral stuff, classical in origin. I can very well imagine your 
> tastes vary quite a lot :) I'm miles off, aren't I? <G> You like Tanya 
> Tucker and think Hank Williams Jr. is a god, right? <G>

Well, I've met Hank WIlliams Jr. and he's a nice enough fellow, but no 
god.  Ironically, I was introduced to him by Rex Allen Jr..

Anyway,Music I like.  Lots of classical, mostly the expected stuff, but 
with some of the lesser known composers such as Henry Purcell, Carlos 
Chavez, and what I call the "later classics" the guys who found home in 
Hollywood, like Korngold, Steiner, Herman (North by Northwest score is 
incredible), and Copeland.

Jazz?  My tastes run to the 50's to the 80's,  I guess, with a huge 
passion for Brukebeck, Mancinni, and Davis.  Parker, Gillespie, and Monk 
I enjoy, as I do Coltrain.   I loved Janos Pastorius's work, especially 
the Weather Report live stuff, and loved Manhattan Transfer and the 
Nilons, because I guess they were the inheritors from Lambert, Hendrix 
and Ross (later Bevan).

I enjoy a little bit of Opera, but I've got to be in the mood.  My 
favorites are Bizet's Carmine and Motzart's Don Juan.

Country?  Not that big on country, though I love John Hyatt's work.  
Enjoy the more Rockabilly stuff, like Sawyer Brown and Brook and Dunn 
than the "My Tractor Died So I Got Drunk" stuff.  Don't have much use 
for "old" style Country, i.e. George Jones and Tammy Winnet, though I 
will tip by hat to the genius that was Hank Williams and Patsy Kline.  
Went through a huge folk music phase in the early 60's, so I had 
everything by the Kingston Trio, Limelighters, Traveler's 3, Pete Seager 
(and the Weavers), lots of Blues and stuff Alan Lomax recorded during 
the depression.

Rock?  How far back do we go?  Ike Turner's "Rocket 88" is often sited 
as the first R&R song, ever.  Certainly, I was hooked from the opening 
scene of Blackboard Jungle when BIll Haley and the Comets ripped out 
"Rock Around The Clock."  I'm sort of al old fart.  Don't care much for 
modern rock, as I find it lost of mono-tone crashing cords.  I realize 
Grune and all that came after was a counter point to the over-the-top 
excesses of Glam Rock, but come on, guys, find a melody in there 
somehere.  My favorite band of all times is probably The Who, with the 
Beatles and Stones running hard for a photo finish.  I love Motown with 
the Temptations being my candidates for all time best male vocal group 
ever!    I find many great bands from many eras, even so much as 
enjoying Alien Ant Farm's cover of Michael Jackson's Smooth Criminal 
worth a listen.   As for solo artists, Hendrix was a genius, as is 
Clapton.  Loved to listen to Tim Buckley back in the sixties (I knew 
him, so it was doubly good), as well as

As for Floyd, I lump them in with  a bunch of bands from the late 
sixties to the early eighties that I tend to think of as "Pompous 
Rock."  Yes, Emerson, Lake, and Palmer, and Procol Harum were the best 
of the lot, IMHO, but you can lump in bands like Electric Light 
Orchestra, Moody Blues, Kansas, Asia, Styx, Boston.  My favorite Floyd 
album was Uma Gumma, probably because it was the least complicated in a 
lot of ways.  Yes could get on my nerves, but Jon Anderson (and for a 
while Trevor Raban's) vocals were like watching a gymnast.  I lump the 
entire bunch into "a little goes a long way."  I like listening to any 
them from time to time, but for a steady diet, I'll take the Who, 
Beatles, or Stones.

> Also, just finished Shards again, as the last book in my total reread 
> of the entire catalog for fun. Is there any form of bribery I could 
> undertake to get that Conclave series moved up? <G> You are a luxury as 
> an author, Ray. You seem to release a book every year or so, which 
> amazes me. Conversely, the only Stephen King series that I read, the 
> Dark Tower series, comes out so infrequently that I almost forget about 
> it sometimes (9 years between book three and four!!). I don't have much 
> interested in his other stuff, but your world and that world are my two 
> favorite literary lands... it's just nice to be able to visit one of 
> them on a regular basis. So thanks Ray, for working like a damn dog. If 
> I wasn't enjoying this little discussion so much, I'd be pleading and 
> prodding you to get back to those coming books <G>
>

Conclave is underway.  Just turned in chapter 6 and would probably have 
7 done today if it wasn't for a blood head cold that nailed me Friday.  
I'm taking the rest of the day off to lie in bed until I get up and head 
over to a friend's house to watch the Super Bowl, then back at work 
tomorrow morning.

Best,R.E.F>
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
From: Smenick@aol.com
Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2002 14:03:38 EST
Subject: Re: Bob Ezrin
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In a message dated 2/3/02 12:07:47 PM Central Standard Time, 
raymond@bittersea.com writes:


> .  Loved to listen to Tim Buckley back in the sixties (I knew 
> him, so it was doubly good), as well as
> 

Tim's son Jeff was a good friend of my family's.  I met him a few times in 
Memphis.   It is unfortunate that a talent as great as his was cut short by 
his accident.  I personally think that Grace was one of best albums of recent 
years.  

On a more on topic note, can someone please point me in the direction of the 
FAQ site. I am trying to find out when the new books are coming out. I know 
all about the US release issues and just want to know when I can start 
looking for it in Amazon.UK.

Thanks.

-Sean

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Subject: Re: Bob Ezrin
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2002 14:38:14 -0500
Subject: Re: Bob Ezrin
From: Bob Montgomery <dante@kingcon.com>
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> Anyway,Music I like.  Lots of classical, mostly the expected stuff, but 
> with some of the lesser known composers such as Henry Purcell, Carlos 
> Chavez, and what I call the "later classics" the guys who found home in 
> Hollywood, like Korngold, Steiner, Herman (North by Northwest score is 
> incredible), and Copeland.

Now that's eclectic! In all honesty, I'm not a huge classical person 
(studied it enough in music school, but not much I'll reach for on my 
music stacks), so I don't know a few of those names at all.

> Jazz?  My tastes run to the 50's to the 80's,  I guess, with a huge 
> passion for Brukebeck, Mancinni, and Davis.  Parker, Gillespie, and 
> Monk I enjoy, as I do Coltrain.   I loved Janos Pastorius's work, 
> especially the Weather Report live stuff, and loved Manhattan Transfer 
> and the Nilons, because I guess they were the inheritors from Lambert, 
> Hendrix and Ross (later Bevan).

Excellent taste in jazz! Pastorious is masterful, and as a trumpet 
player  growing up, I've always been a devotee of Davis, Gillepsie and 
Armstrong. Parker and Coltraine changed my life when I first heard them.
> I enjoy a little bit of Opera, but I've got to be in the mood.  My 
> favorites are Bizet's Carmine and Motzart's Don Juan.

Nope... that's one area I have no interest in, but it shows how eclectic 
your tastes are!

> Country?  Not that big on country, though I love John Hyatt's work.  
> Enjoy the more Rockabilly stuff, like Sawyer Brown and Brook and Dunn 
> than the "My Tractor Died So I Got Drunk" stuff.  Don't have much use 
> for "old" style Country, i.e. George Jones and Tammy Winnet, though I 
> will tip by hat to the genius that was Hank Williams and Patsy Kline.  
> Went through a huge folk music phase in the early 60's, so I had 
> everything by the Kingston Trio, Limelighters, Traveler's 3, Pete 
> Seager (and the Weavers), lots of Blues and stuff Alan Lomax recorded 
> during the depression.

I'm with you on country. I actually lean towards bluegrass more than 
anything else; I think it's the instrumentalism involved that I love. I 
like some folk, but it tends to be newer stuff except for Utah Phillips, 
who's more of a storyteller than folks singer.

> Rock?  How far back do we go?  Ike Turner's "Rocket 88" is often sited 
> as the first R&R song, ever.  Certainly, I was hooked from the opening 
> scene of Blackboard Jungle when BIll Haley and the Comets ripped out 
> "Rock Around The Clock."  I'm sort of al old fart.  Don't care much for 
> modern rock, as I find it lost of mono-tone crashing cords.  I realize 
> Grune and all that came after was a counter point to the over-the-top 
> excesses of Glam Rock, but come on, guys, find a melody in there 
> somehere.  My favorite band of all times is probably The Who, with the 
> Beatles and Stones running hard for a photo finish.  I love Motown with 
> the Temptations being my candidates for all time best male vocal group 
> ever!    I find many great bands from many eras, even so much as 
> enjoying Alien Ant Farm's cover of Michael Jackson's Smooth Criminal 
> worth a listen.   As for solo artists, Hendrix was a genius, as is 
> Clapton.  Loved to listen to Tim Buckley back in the sixties (I knew 
> him, so it was doubly good), as well as

You're not an old fart, Ray, you have taste <G> Again, I find myself 
agreeing with most of your selections. The Who are one of my all time 
favs, and I respect the Beatles, but I have absolutely no use for the 
Stones. Can't stand 'em. Temptations are total class. So smooth as to 
make you cry; I'm a huge Sinatra fan, too, so there's a soft spot for 
real smooth vocals in my heart (I grew up on a steady diet of Crosby, 
Sinatra and Cole while growing up with my grandfather). Hendrix got old 
to me, though I know he was a genius, and Clapton has his moments, 
though as a guitar player I am constantly amazed at some of the things 
he does. My rock tastes are all over the place, though.

> As for Floyd, I lump them in with  a bunch of bands from the late 
> sixties to the early eighties that I tend to think of as "Pompous 
> Rock."  Yes, Emerson, Lake, and Palmer, and Procol Harum were the best 
> of the lot, IMHO, but you can lump in bands like Electric Light 
> Orchestra, Moody Blues, Kansas, Asia, Styx, Boston.  My favorite Floyd 
> album was Uma Gumma, probably because it was the least complicated in a 
> lot of ways.  Yes could get on my nerves, but Jon Anderson (and for a 
> while Trevor Raban's) vocals were like watching a gymnast.  I lump the 
> entire bunch into "a little goes a long way."  I like listening to any 
> them from time to time, but for a steady diet, I'll take the Who, 
> Beatles, or Stones.

Honestly, I agree with you for the most part. I'm not a fan of art-rock 
or bloat-rock, which is what I consider most of those bands you 
mentioned, but the lyrics always set Floyd apart for me. It's 
subjective, of course, but the albums always resonated with me; and I 
haven't taken acid, nor do I have any urge to <G>

> Conclave is underway.  Just turned in chapter 6 and would probably have 
> 7 done today if it wasn't for a blood head cold that nailed me Friday.  
> I'm taking the rest of the day off to lie in bed until I get up and 
> head over to a friend's house to watch the Super Bowl, then back at 
> work tomorrow morning.

You big tease, you! Very much looking forward to it, as is everyone else 
here, I'm sure :) Sorry to hear about the cold. My step-daughter just 
got over one in the last day or so, and I had it about two weeks ago... 
lots of rest, fluids, blah, blah <G> Hey, get well soon and hope the 
writing is going smoothly. Enjoy the Super Bowl. Since I don't really 
like either team, I'm just hoping for an exciting, close game and no 
blow outs!

Take care of yourself! This has been a fantastic discussion, really.

Bob



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I agree it would be a huge mistake to make a MMORG because if anyone
on this list is like me they can't be bothed to buy a game and still
have to pay more to play it. I thing they need to make a game like
Blizzards Diablo 1&2 or like Black Isle's Baldur's gate (but with out
the party because that kills the deepth of the hero).

Also if someone would be as kind to point me in the direction of a
shop online or offline to buy the Krondor games i would be very
greatfull but i live in Northen Ireland so it would have to be a UK
site.

P.S Mr Fiest u r doing a great job, your books r better than the Lord
of the Rings because ur characters have a lot more deepth and humer to
them. Even in the grimest of times there can still be a laugh. So well
done Fiest keep up the good work and try and get someone to make a
film of the Magician it would rock.

Steve AKA Morg

> A MMORPG would be a bad mistake, there are so many in development and
>only a limited amount of people who are interested in them. I don't know
>anybody who is a subscriber to 2 or more MMORPG's, so unless it would be a
>huge hit, it would probably fall in month or two.



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> Not the first one, which was done in-house by a guy with a computer at 
> Dynamix. 

And I must say, this lonely guy did a great job. Had he an orchestra
to his "command", I'm sure he would have made a wonderful masterpiece
of his BaK compositions.

Syl

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Ray wrote:
 
> Single malt scotch.  Usually Glenfidditch (12 years), but occasionally 
> others.  And wine, from just about anywhere if it's good.

My boss was instrumental to my introduction to the Lagavulin (a 16 yr old 
single malt). I have to say that it is lovely.



alan.
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Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 13:56:46 +0800
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Shawn Chung <shawnc@starhub.net.sg>
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On Sun, 03 Feb 2002 09:56:45 -0800, REF wrote:

>On Sunday, February 3, 2002, at 07:38 AM, Bob Montgomery wrote:
>

[snip]

>Conclave is underway.  Just turned in chapter 6 and would probably 
>have 7 done today if it wasn't for a blood head cold that nailed me 
>Friday.  I'm taking the rest of the day off to lie in bed until I 
>get up and head over to a friend's house to watch the Super Bowl, 
>then back at work tomorrow morning.
>
>Best,R.E.F>
>----

Strange.

You're the third author that I know of that's caught a cold in a week.

First person was Mercedes Lackey, then I received a David Webber list 
post saying exactly the same thing...

Cheers, and hope you feel better.
-- 
----

SeeYa StarSide

Shawn Chung



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From: "Donal K. Fellows" <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 10:36:34 +0000
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Jimmre@aol.com
> For those of us who have never tried any of these drinks, where
> would be a good place to start?

The best way to start is in the company of friends who know their
spirits.  Cheap stuff is to be avoided, and you probably won't want to
invest in a bottle of more expensive stuff to start out with.

In terms of Scotch, the most basic question is how smokey you want
your tipple.  If you like smoke flavours, you want whisky from
northwest of the Great Glen or from the islands (Islay malts are the
most extreme this way) whereas if you prefer them less smokey you
should go for a Speyside or one of the more southern ones.

On the single-malt/blended question, it is easiest if you simply
remember that it is mainly a matter of taste[*].  As has been said,
the best blends are *very* good and expensive, but there's lots of
cheap rotgut too.

> Also, are these drunk with ice or straight up?

I think they should be drunk straight, particularly because the smell
of good spirits is one of the best things about them.  And is also
just about the fastest way to get drunk I know without an intravenous
drip...

> I tried some cheap Cognac several years ago and seemed a bit much,
> but I had just turned 21 and had little experience with any alcohol.

Cheap cognac is just about OK for cooking with, but only if you don't
have anything nicer.  I suppose you could use it as paint stripper
too.

Cheap whisk(e)y is just as bad.  *shudder*

> Jim (Trying to be more sophisticated than drinking beer)

There are some very nice beers out there too.  Don't mistake gaining
sophistication (i.e. knowing how to avoid the bad stuff) for switching
from beer to some other kind of drink.  If you live in the UK, I'd
suggest trying to get hold of some beer by Fullers (I've never had
something of theirs that wasn't delicious, but they know it and charge
accordingly) but I don't know how much they export.

Donal (I don't know bourbons at all; hey, I'm enjoying what I do know
       very much already! <g>)
[* I prefer mine smokier than most blends come, but then I like Islay
   malts.  I'm keen on smoked food too, even though I know it is not
   at all good for me... ]
-- 
Donal K. Fellows, Department of Computer Science, University of Manchester, UK.
(work) fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk     Tel: +44-161-275-6137  (preferred email addr.)
(home) donal@ugglan.demon.co.uk  Tel: +44-1274-401017   Mobile: +44-7957-298955
http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~fellowsd/  (Don't quote my .sig; I've seen it before!)



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*** EOOH ***
From: "Donal K. Fellows" <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Bob Ezrin
Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 10:40:04 +0000
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Shawn Chung <shawnc@starhub.net.sg>
> Strange.
> You're the third author that I know of that's caught a cold in a week.

There's certainly been a very bad cold (unusually contageous and
fairly virulent[*] too) doing the rounds in the UK recently, and it
wouldn't be at all surprising (what with modern air travel) if it had
spread all over the world.  Perhaps this is it.  If so, it usually
only lasts for a day or so, depending on how stressed your immune
system is.

Donal.
[* Most colds don't force you to take a day of sick.  This one does. ]
-- 
Donal K. Fellows, Department of Computer Science, University of Manchester, UK.
(work) fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk     Tel: +44-161-275-6137  (preferred email addr.)
(home) donal@ugglan.demon.co.uk  Tel: +44-1274-401017   Mobile: +44-7957-298955
http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~fellowsd/  (Don't quote my .sig; I've seen it before!)



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IF there is going to be a Baldur's Gate-clone based on Feist's books I think 
you should have some parties now and then. In the books parties also appears 
once in a while. Like Arutha who goes several times in the sewer system of 
Krondor, accompanied by thieves (mostly Robert) and soldiers) or the several 
times Pug teams up with Thomas, Miranda, Macros or other characters. And 
don't forget his Kelewan magician-friends (the ones with the impossible 
names).

And the rules of the game will have quite different rules, since Midkemia 
started as RPG with other rules then AD&D (where BG is based on).

My 2 euro-cents.

Greetings,

Tjeerd

_________________________________________________________________
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With the thieve Robert I mean James/Jimmy the Hand. It's name in the Dutch 
translation is Robbie/Robert. (Weird, both names appear in the Netherlands, 
altough James not as frequent as Jimmy or Robert.)

Tjeerd

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On Monday, February 4, 2002, at 02:36 AM, Donal K. Fellows wrote:

> Jimmre@aol.com
>> For those of us who have never tried any of these drinks, where
>> would be a good place to start?
>
> The best way to start is in the company of friends who know their
> spirits.  Cheap stuff is to be avoided, and you probably won't want to
> invest in a bottle of more expensive stuff to start out with.
>
> In terms of Scotch, the most basic question is how smokey you want
> your tipple.  If you like smoke flavours, you want whisky from
> northwest of the Great Glen or from the islands (Islay malts are the
> most extreme this way) whereas if you prefer them less smokey you
> should go for a Speyside or one of the more southern ones.
>
> On the single-malt/blended question, it is easiest if you simply
> remember that it is mainly a matter of taste[*].  As has been said,
> the best blends are *very* good and expensive, but there's lots of
> cheap rotgut too.
>
>> Also, are these drunk with ice or straight up?
>
> I think they should be drunk straight, particularly because the smell
> of good spirits is one of the best things about them.  And is also
> just about the fastest way to get drunk I know without an intravenous
> drip...

Disagree, unless the object of the exercise is to get faced as fast as 
possible.  Scotch on the rocks (over ice for those of you who aren't 
English first speakers) is my choice.  Cold scotch releases flavors in a 
subtle fashion as it warms on the tongue.  Spirits of any kind have huge 
amounts of volatile esters.  The only drink I can think of where this is 
something you really want to get full on out of the bottle at room 
temperature or even heated a bit is brandy (or cognac or armagnac).
>

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 10:56:31 -0800 (PST)
From: Dun Xiahou <xiahoudun13@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re:
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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The ATF is the be all and end all of the Federal
Regulations regarding all things Alcohol.  It is
afterall the Bureau of ALCOHOL, Tobacco and Firearms. 
This includes labeling of alcohol products, hence the
title of that particular subsection "STANDARDS OF
IDENTITY FOR DISTILLED SPIRITS."  It says clearly in
there that bourbon is merely distilled in the United
States.  It does not say it must be from Kentucky.

The law was further clerified in a ruling regarding
whether a bourbon from Illinois was permitted to be
called "Kentucky Bourbon" when shipped to a Kentucky
distillery:


---------------------------------------
Rev Ruling 54-416 

...

Section 21, class 8, of Regulations No. 5 prohibits
distilled spirits produced outside of the State of
Kentucky from being labeled as "Kentucky Straight
Bourbon Whisky." Also, section 35(e) of Regulations
No. 5 requires the appearance on the label of the
statement "Distilled in Illinois," with the name and
address of the Kentucky purchaser stated as the
bottler of the product. In the instant case, the
product for all practical purposes was produced in
Illinois and the Illinois distiller (rather than
Kentucky distiller) is the "distiller" insofar as
these
regulations are concerned. 

...
---------------------------------------

This goes on to say that you may even distill a
bourbon whisky in Illinois, then ship it to Kentucky,
and redistill it, then bottle it as "Kentucky bourbon"
as long as you list the state of original origin (e.g.
Illinois) even though the key processes were not done
in Kentucky.

The current rule is that you must list the state of
origin on any whisky, but you may call it bourbon as
long as it is made according to the process and
ingredients (i.e. 51-79 percent corn, etc and so
forth).  In which case, you may label a bottle of
Illinois made Bourbon as "Sour Mash Bourbon Whisky"
but you must also state on the bottle that it was
"distilled in Illinois."

- Dun

P.S. Interestingly enough though, you may not label
any whisky made in Kentucky as "Kentucky Whisky"
unless it is bourbon.


--- Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com> wrote:
> 
> On Friday, February 1, 2002, at 01:34 PM, Dun Xiahou
> wrote:
> 
> > To clear up everything, I dug up the following
> from
> > the ATF regulations:
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------
> > PART 5 SUBPART C--STANDARDS OF IDENTITY FOR
> DISTILLED
> > SPIRITS:
> >
> > ...
> > 5.22
> > (b) Class 2; whisky
> > ...
> >
> > (2)"Whiskey distilled from bourbon (rye, wheat,
> malt,
> > or rye malt) mash" is whisky produced in the
> United
> > States at not exceeding 160 proof from a fermented
> > mash of not less than 51 percent corn, rye, wheat,
> > malted barley, or malted rye grain, respectively,
> and
> > stored in used oak containers; and also includes
> > mixtures of such whiskies of the same type. 
> Whisky
> > conforming to the standard of identity for corn
> whisky
> > must be designated corn Whisky.
> >
> > ...
> >
> > (7)"Scotch whisky" is whisky which is a
> distinctive
> > product of Scotland, manufactured in Scotland in
> > compliance with the laws of the United Kingdom
> > regulating the manufacture of Scotch whisky for
> > consumption in the United Kingdom: Provided, That
> if
> > such product is a mixture of whiskies, such
> mixture is
> > "blended Scotch whisky" (Scotch whisky--a blend)
> > ---------------------------------------------
> >
> > You were right about Scotch.  I appologize. 
> However,
> > I am correct that bourbon need only come from the
> > United States.  So yes, I can make bourbon in New
> > Jersey and call it bourbon.  Also, there is no
> > designation "Tennessee Whisky."  As such, one
> would
> > presume that you can call any whisky "Tennessee
> > whisky" as long as it adheres to at least one of
> the
> > regulations regarding whisky.  Most Tennessee
> whiskies
> > however, are technically classified as "bourbon
> > whiskies due to the way the are produced, and the
> fact
> > that they are manufactured in the United States.
> >
> > So it seems we both were right about some points
> and
> > wrong about others.  It's no wonder why so many
> people
> > find such classifications confusing, myself
> included.
> >
> > - Cao's general
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions!
> > http://auctions.yahoo.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> 
> I believe the ATF doesn't have a thing to do with
> the designation 
> "Bourbon."  I believe that's a function of laws past
> in the state of 
> Kentucky, and enforced by the Federal Trade
> Commission.  I do know that 
> I've never seen a "Bourbon" from anywhere else but
> Kentucky.  I do know 
> I've seen a lot of "whiskey" from other places.
> 
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
> 
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be
> explained away by 
> stupidity.
> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! 
http://auctions.yahoo.com



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Ray Have you tried Jonny walker red? what did you think of it







>From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
>Reply-To: FEISray TFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
>Subject: Re:
>Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 08:52:22 -0800
>
>
>On Monday, February 4, 2002, at 02:36 AM, Donal K. Fellows wrote:
>
>>Jimmre@aol.com
>>>For those of us who have never tried any of these drinks, where
>>>would be a good place to start?
>>
>>The best way to start is in the company of friends who know their
>>spirits.  Cheap stuff is to be avoided, and you probably won't want to
>>invest in a bottle of more expensive stuff to start out with.
>>
>>In terms of Scotch, the most basic question is how smokey you want
>>your tipple.  If you like smoke flavours, you want whisky from
>>northwest of the Great Glen or from the islands (Islay malts are the
>>most extreme this way) whereas if you prefer them less smokey you
>>should go for a Speyside or one of the more southern ones.
>>
>>On the single-malt/blended question, it is easiest if you simply
>>remember that it is mainly a matter of taste[*].  As has been said,
>>the best blends are *very* good and expensive, but there's lots of
>>cheap rotgut too.
>>
>>>Also, are these drunk with ice or straight up?
>>
>>I think they should be drunk straight, particularly because the smell
>>of good spirits is one of the best things about them.  And is also
>>just about the fastest way to get drunk I know without an intravenous
>>drip...
>
>Disagree, unless the object of the exercise is to get faced as fast as
>possible.  Scotch on the rocks (over ice for those of you who aren't
>English first speakers) is my choice.  Cold scotch releases flavors in a
>subtle fashion as it warms on the tongue.  Spirits of any kind have huge
>amounts of volatile esters.  The only drink I can think of where this is
>something you really want to get full on out of the bottle at room
>temperature or even heated a bit is brandy (or cognac or armagnac).
>>
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
>stupidity.
>




_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.



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On Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 08:52:22AM -0800, Raymond Feist wrote:
> Disagree, unless the object of the exercise is to get faced as fast as 
> possible.  Scotch on the rocks (over ice for those of you who aren't 
> English first speakers) is my choice.  Cold scotch releases flavors in a 
> subtle fashion as it warms on the tongue.  Spirits of any kind have huge 
> amounts of volatile esters.  The only drink I can think of where this is 
> something you really want to get full on out of the bottle at room 
> temperature or even heated a bit is brandy (or cognac or armagnac).
> >

A hint for those that don't have convenient ice and or don't like 
ice in their drinks is that the same (or at least a very similar) 
effect can be achieved with a splash of cold water. Definitely 
brings out the flavour. 

It seems that Americans add ice to everything, but sometimes there is
a reason :)

> 
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
> 
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
> stupidity.
> 

-- 
Tim Nicholas                          ||                      Cilix
Email: tim@nicholas.net.nz            ||              ICQ# 15869961
http://tim.nicholas.net.nz/           ||       Dunedin, New Zealand
"Grow up, Larry. You give me too much credit." - Linus Torvalds



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--- "Mic Olafson" <tbird7775@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>Ray Have you tried Jonny walker red? what did you think of it

Although the question isn't addressed to me, let me add something.
I've drunk JW Red Label many times and I'm very curious if there
REALLY is any difference between it and the better whiskies. For
instance between JW Red Label and JW Black Label or Gold or Blue
Label. And what about a difference between single malt whiskies and
blended ones, e.g. between Glenfiddich and William Grant's Blended
Whisky or Clan MacGregor? I know that it is hard to describe, but can
anyone try?

Slainte!
Father Nathan


_____________________________________________________________
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References: <NFBBKOHMNLCDNNLBCLKKAEKBCAAA.dave@davecurran.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: SET FEISTFANS-L MAIL ACK 
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Darren McClung" <d@dwmc.org>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: SET FEISTFANS-L MAIL ACK 
Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 18:46:55 -0600
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Acknnowledged.  Thanks.

FeistFans-L

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dave Curran" <dave@davecurran.demon.co.uk>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Monday, February 04, 2002 17:25
Subject: SET FEISTFANS-L MAIL ACK 


> SET FEISTFANS-L MAIL ACK 
> 



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Subject: RE: SET FEISTFANS-L MAIL ACK 
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Steven McCarthy" <steven@connect.ie>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Cc: <dave@davecurran.demon.co.uk>
Subject: RE: SET FEISTFANS-L MAIL ACK 
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 00:57:05 -0000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

You need to send this to feistfans-l@cornell.edu instead of the list.


Steve
One of The Collective
http://learn.at/ahh
"Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then
do it." -- Lazarus Long

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Dave Curran
> Sent: 04 February 2002 23:26
> To: FEISTFANS-L
> Subject: SET FEISTFANS-L MAIL ACK
>
>
> SET FEISTFANS-L MAIL ACK
>
>

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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 18:33:13 -0800
Subject: Re:
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Monday, February 4, 2002, at 01:26 PM, Mic Olafson wrote:

>
> Ray Have you tried Jonny walker red? what did you think of it
>
>

When I first started drinking scotch that was my brand.  I find it a 
little simple and peaty for my tastes these days, but if I'm somewhere 
when they don't have one I prefer, I'll still drink it. <g>

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 18:43:38 -0800
Subject: Re:
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On Monday, February 4, 2002, at 03:10 PM, Nathan wrote:

> --- "Mic Olafson" <tbird7775@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Ray Have you tried Jonny walker red? what did you think of it
>
> Although the question isn't addressed to me, let me add something.
> I've drunk JW Red Label many times and I'm very curious if there REALLY 
> is any difference between it and the better whiskies. For instance 
> between JW Red Label and JW Black Label or Gold or Blue Label. And what 
> about a difference between single malt whiskies and blended ones, e.g. 
> between Glenfiddich and William Grant's Blended Whisky or Clan 
> MacGregor? I know that it is hard to describe, but can anyone try?
>



It's not hard at all, just very complicated.

Here's the short version.  The biggest difference between JW Red and 
Black is aging.  Black is aged longer in the barrel.  Gold is a 
different blend and aged longer.  Blue is their most expensive ($150 a 
bottle or so) and it's a blend of very old scotches.  I've heard of a 
Silver, but never seen it.  They have two others, Swing, which is a 
slightly different blend, about the same cost as the Black or a little 
bit more, and Cardhu, which is the single malt all their blends are 
based upon.

OK, now, if I don't screw this up . . .

Grants is to Glenfiddich as JW is to Carduh, i.e. those are the blends 
based on those single malts.  But the blends use other malts, as well.

Here's how I understand it.  Each "single malt" is made up from a batch 
of whisky made from a single malt, i.e. a particular type of mash made 
to certain specifications, each malt having a distinctive "style."    
Now, each batch of malt has variation, so the distiller's job is to 
blend the batches so that each bottle of Glenfiddich tastes like every 
other bottle of Gldnfiddich.

A "blend" is actually a whiskey made from a group of different "malts."  
Again, the distiller has to blend them so that every bottle of Grants 
tastes like every other bottle of Grants.  That's the art.

It can be confusing if you realize that all "single malts" are 
"blended."   Just don't confuse the terms as they're applied to the 
product.  If it comes from one malting "style" then it's a single malt.

Grants and Glenfeddich is a good example because it's the clearest link 
in taste I know between a single malt and a blend.  You taste them side 
by side and you'll taste the difference.  But it's no more the 
difference between Glenfiddich and their "Ancient Cask" which is aged 18 
years or their "Solara Reserve" which is slightly sweeter (I think they 
use sherry casks for the additional 3 years) and aged 15 years compared 
to Glenfiddich's 12 years.

It's a vanity that single malt is "better," and that's a bit of a snob 
thing here in the states.  SIngle malts tend to have more distinctive 
styles, but if you enjoy Dewar's White Lable (the most popular scotch in 
the US) because you like the taste, that's just fine, too.

Best, R.E.F>


----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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From: John <john@crydee.com>
Subject: Re: SET FEISTFANS-L MAIL ACK
References: <NFBBKOHMNLCDNNLBCLKKAEKBCAAA.dave@davecurran.demon.co.uk>
 <JFEAJPKDBPIHNHHIHKHLKENGCHAA.steven@connect.ie>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 06:55:55 +0000
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: John <john@crydee.com>
Subject: Re: SET FEISTFANS-L MAIL ACK
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Steven McCarthy <steven@connect.ie> writes
>You need to send this to feistfans-l@cornell.edu instead of the list.
>
Oh no you don't ! That is the list :)

it should go to
listproc@cornell.edu

>
>Steve
>One of The Collective
>http://learn.at/ahh
>"Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then
>do it." -- Lazarus Long
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Dave Curran
>> Sent: 04 February 2002 23:26
>> To: FEISTFANS-L
>> Subject: SET FEISTFANS-L MAIL ACK
>>
>>
>> SET FEISTFANS-L MAIL ACK
>>
>>
>
>[ A MIME text / x-vcard part was included here. ]
>

-- 
John

john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.

Raymond E Feist Ring
http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm



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*** EOOH ***
From: "Steven McCarthy" <steven@connect.ie>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: SET FEISTFANS-L MAIL ACK
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 09:05:49 -0000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Doh! That's what I get for staying up too late.

Steve
One of The Collective
http://learn.at/ahh
"Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then
do it." -- Lazarus Long

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of John
> Sent: 05 February 2002 06:56
> To: FEISTFANS-L
> Subject: Re: SET FEISTFANS-L MAIL ACK
>
>
> Steven McCarthy <steven@connect.ie> writes
> >You need to send this to feistfans-l@cornell.edu instead of the list.
> >
> Oh no you don't ! That is the list :)
>
> it should go to
> listproc@cornell.edu
>
> >
> >Steve
> >One of The Collective
> >http://learn.at/ahh
> >"Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done
> and why. Then
> >do it." -- Lazarus Long
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> >> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Dave Curran
> >> Sent: 04 February 2002 23:26
> >> To: FEISTFANS-L
> >> Subject: SET FEISTFANS-L MAIL ACK
> >>
> >>
> >> SET FEISTFANS-L MAIL ACK
> >>
> >>
> >
> >[ A MIME text / x-vcard part was included here. ]
> >
>
> --
> John
>
> john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
> http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.
>
> Raymond E Feist Ring
> http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm
>
>
>

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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Barker" <heechee@softhome.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: 
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 21:51:57 +1100
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Donal K. Fellows" <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Monday, February 04, 2002 9:36 PM
Subject: Re:


> Cheap whisk(e)y is just as bad.  *shudder*

Don't tell me... Fairly late on New Year's Eve, one of my friends produced a
bottle of bourbon that he claimed was "top stuff," and got stuck in... At
that point I couldn't read the label, so I tried a swig.

I'm no expert on spirits, but I'm fairly sure that "top stuff" isn't
supposed to taste like paint stripper, and have a similar effect on one's
throat... :)

And the worst thing is that I don't know what it was, so as to avoid it next
time...

Cheers,
James



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*** EOOH ***
From: "Alex Loke" <nerf@alphalink.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: 
Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2002 01:56:24 +1100
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> Don't tell me... Fairly late on New Year's Eve, one of my friends produced a
> bottle of bourbon that he claimed was "top stuff," and got stuck in... At
> that point I couldn't read the label, so I tried a swig.
>
> I'm no expert on spirits, but I'm fairly sure that "top stuff" isn't
> supposed to taste like paint stripper, and have a similar effect on one's
> throat... :)
>
> And the worst thing is that I don't know what it was, so as to avoid it next
> time...

Uh...Johnny Walker Clear Label? =)

Regards,

Alex Loke
nerf@alphalink.com.au

<INSERT WITTY LINE HERE>



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*** EOOH ***
From: "Chris Smith" <cjs94@zepler.org.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 23:01:38 -0000
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Priority: normal
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On 4 Feb 2002, at 18:43, Raymond Feist wrote:

> Here's how I understand it.  Each "single malt" is made up from a batch 
> of whisky made from a single malt, i.e. a particular type of mash made 
> to certain specifications, each malt having a distinctive "style."    
> Now, each batch of malt has variation, so the distiller's job is to 
> blend the batches so that each bottle of Glenfiddich tastes like every 
> other bottle of Gldnfiddich.
> 
> A "blend" is actually a whiskey made from a group of different "malts."  
> Again, the distiller has to blend them so that every bottle of Grants 
> tastes like every other bottle of Grants.  That's the art.
> 
> It can be confusing if you realize that all "single malts" are 
> "blended."   Just don't confuse the terms as they're applied to the 
> product.  If it comes from one malting "style" then it's a single malt.

The next step up is a bottle of "single cask" whisky, whose contents 
come entirely from a single cask of malt whisky. This means that each 
bottle of single cask whisky has a unique flavour, shared only by the 
600 bottles which make up a single cask, which can never be repeated.

Single cask whiskys are usually undiluted, or "cask strength" which 
means they start around 50% Vol. as opposed to 40% Vol. for single 
malts.

Like Donal, I prefer smokey flavours (my current favourite is 
Bunnahabhain, 12 yr. which is an Islay single malt) and believe that 
whisky should be taken "straight up", however cask strength whiskys 
are the exception and should be diluted. This gives rise to an 
entirely different field of experimentation, since the type of water 
added can result in subtley different flavours. Tap water simply 
isn't good enough (IMHO).

So in summary: A distillery produces batches of single cask whiskys. 
single malt whiskys are a blend of a number of single cask whiskys 
produced by the same distillery. Blended whiskys are a blend of a 
number of single malt whiskys produced by different distilleries.

I am by no means an expert, so if I've ballsed something up please 
correct me.

Chris
--
Chris Smith
cjs94@zepler.org.uk



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*** EOOH ***
From: Gkhd11a@aol.com
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 21:54:09 EST
Subject: Publisher in the US?
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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Why Ray not publishing books in the US currently?

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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 19:43:24 -0800
Subject: Re: Publisher in the US?
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Tuesday, February 5, 2002, at 06:54 PM, Gkhd11a@aol.com wrote:

> Why Ray not publishing books in the US currently?
>
>
>

I covered it when it first happened, but to recap for those who missed 
it, the Legends of the Riftwar series was not picked up by Avon because 
I refused to let them be published as "one off" paperback originals.  I 
haven't had a book come out as a paperback original in 20 years and I'm 
not about to start now.

They'll find a home somewhere, within the next year or two, and then 
you'll be able to get them in the states from a US publisher.

Until then you can order the UK editions from amazon.co.uk.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.

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From: Dun Xiahou <xiahoudun13@yahoo.com>
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I believe "single cask" is also sometimes referred to
as "full strength."  Could be wrong.

- Xiahou Dun

>   Chris Smith  wrote: On 4 Feb 2002, at 18:43,
>Raymond Feist wrote:> Here's how I understand it. Each
>"single malt" is made up from a batch > of whisky made
>from a single malt, i.e. a particular type of mash
>made > to certain specifications, each malt having a
>distinctive "style." > Now, each batch of malt has
>variation, so the distiller's job is to > blend the
>batches so that each bottle of Glenfiddich tastes like
>every > other bottle of Gldnfiddich.> > A "blend" is
>actually a whiskey made from a group of different
>"malts." > Again, the distiller has to blend them so
>that every bottle of Grants > tastes like every other
>bottle of Grants. That's the art.> > It can be
>confusing if you realize that all "single malts" are >
>"blended." Just don't confuse the terms as they're
>applied to the > product. If it comes from one malting
>"style" then it's a single malt.The next step up is a
>bottle of "single cask" whisky, whose contents come
>entirely from a single cask of malt whisky. This means
>that each bottle of single cask whisky has a unique
>flavour, shared only by the 600 bottles which make up
>a single cask, which can never be repeated.Single cask
>whiskys are usually undiluted, or "cask strength"
>which means they start around 50% Vol. as opposed to
>40% Vol. for single malts.Like Donal, I prefer smokey
>flavours (my current favourite is Bunnahabhain, 12 yr.
>which is an Islay single malt) and believe that whisky
>should be taken "straight up", however cask strength
>whiskys are the exception and should be diluted. This
>gives rise to an entirely different field of
>experimentation, since the type of water added can
>result in subtley different flavours. Tap water simply
>isn't good enough (IMHO).So in summary: A distillery
>produces batches of single cask whiskys. single malt
>whiskys are a blend of a number of single cask whiskys
>produced by the same distillery. Blended whiskys are a
>blend of a number of single malt whiskys produced by
>different distilleries.I am by no means an expert, so
>if I've ballsed something up please correct
>me.Chris--Chris Smithcjs94@zepler.org.uk
>
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings!
http://greetings.yahoo.com



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At 19:43 05/02/2002 -0800, Raymond Feist wrote:
>They'll find a home somewhere, within the next year or two, and then 
>you'll be able to get them in the states from a US publisher.
>
>Until then you can order the UK editions from amazon.co.uk.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>----

And if you're not happy with amazon.co.uk you could always try www.bol.com 
or <http://www.infront.co.uk/>www.infront.co.uk

Al



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From: "Damian" <milamber@dazedandconfused.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re:FEISTFANS-L digest 35
Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2002 06:32:48 -0600
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Hi there Ray et al.

Long long ago, i subscribed to Feistans, and enjoyed it a great deal, all
of it but the 50 plus postings a day in my mailbox in fact!  I defected to
recieving the Digest form, only to find myownemail.com wouldnt support such
voluminous messaging!  I unsubscribed, and now, years later, ive just
rejoined the fray - only to find the average digest posting seems to run to
about 5 or 6 messages.  My question simply then, is this: am i recieving
this digest properly, or is it just that the list has rather surprisingly
wained?!  Do we really get what is tantamount to exclusive access to Ray
these days or what?!

Also, is it possible to get a 'super digest' of, say the last 2 years of
threads, news etc. Perhaps i should just ask Ray 'anything i need know?!'.

As for making some sort of meaningful comtribution, i should really lurk
for a while, until im more sure i'll not be ressurrecting some old topic of
discussion.  Legends of the Riftwar i havent read yet (doing Bored of the
Rings in lieu of the film just now) however, any interesting matters
arising from that tome?

Cheers,

Damian Smith

(Now a doctor, pleased to say!) 
----------------------------------------------
Original Message
From: ""<FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: FEISTFANS-L digest 35
Date: Wed,  6 Feb 2002 00:02:07 EST

>
>			    FEISTFANS-L Digest 35
>
>Topics covered in this issue include:
>
>  1) Re: SET FEISTFANS-L MAIL ACK
>	by John <john@crydee.com>
>  2) RE: SET FEISTFANS-L MAIL ACK
>	by "Steven McCarthy" <steven@connect.ie>
>  3) Re: 
>	by "James Barker" <heechee@softhome.net>
>  4) Re: 
>	by "Alex Loke" <nerf@alphalink.com.au>
>  5) Re:
>	by "Chris Smith" <cjs94@zepler.org.uk>
>  6) Publisher in the US?
>	by Gkhd11a@aol.com
>  7) Re: Publisher in the US?
>	by Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
>
>



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Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2002 15:48:32 +0000
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re:FEISTFANS-L digest 35
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Hi Damian,

(dms98fm@soton.ac.uk? last post April 1998? ain't search
engines great? ... ;-> )

Ayup.  The list traffic has dropped to reasonable levels
in the meantime.  

The archives are available at Donal's site, so you can 
look at them there if you feel like downloading them...
Hope you got broadband ;->

In short:
Ray finished the three books (so far) that start with
Krondor: etc and are based on the storyline found in
the PC games BaK and RtK.  He then co-wrote 'Honoured Enemy'
with William Forstchen, but that was only published in the 
UK 'cause Ray's American publisher is playing silly buggers.  
He then co-wrote Murder in Lamut with (Joel Rosenberg? or 
is he the other one? doesn't matter, 'cause it hasn't been 
published yet, again, when available, from amazon.CO.UK 
rather than .com).  Ray got divorced and is currently dating 
half the "I'm available" set in the greater San Diego area.  
Ray is also in the process of writing Talon of the Silver
Hawk, book one in the timeline after SoaBC.  Talon has little
in the way of cameos (the only two given so far are Fantus
and the son of Pug and Miranda*), given that it is set in 
the Eastern Kingdoms.

* tart.

And there you are!

regards,
rip

At 06:32 AM 2/6/02 -0600, Damian wrote:
>Hi there Ray et al.
>
>Long long ago, i subscribed to Feistans, and enjoyed it a great deal, all
>of it but the 50 plus postings a day in my mailbox in fact!  I defected to
>recieving the Digest form, only to find myownemail.com wouldnt support such
>voluminous messaging!  I unsubscribed, and now, years later, ive just
>rejoined the fray - only to find the average digest posting seems to run to
>about 5 or 6 messages.  My question simply then, is this: am i recieving
>this digest properly, or is it just that the list has rather surprisingly
>wained?!  Do we really get what is tantamount to exclusive access to Ray
>these days or what?!
>
>Also, is it possible to get a 'super digest' of, say the last 2 years of
>threads, news etc. Perhaps i should just ask Ray 'anything i need know?!'.
>
>As for making some sort of meaningful comtribution, i should really lurk
>for a while, until im more sure i'll not be ressurrecting some old topic of
>discussion.  Legends of the Riftwar i havent read yet (doing Bored of the
>Rings in lieu of the film just now) however, any interesting matters
>arising from that tome?



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I know the problem. I have been off and on this list for the last 3 years.
Many of my mail servers wouldn't pick up Cornell but I eventually found a
solution. I now get the emails sent to a Hotmail account and then access my
Hotmail account through my normal mail server. A pain but it works.

Bryan

----- Original Message -----
From: "Damian" <milamber@dazedandconfused.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2002 10:32 PM
Subject: Re:FEISTFANS-L digest 35


> Hi there Ray et al.
>
> Long long ago, i subscribed to Feistans, and enjoyed it a great deal, all
> of it but the 50 plus postings a day in my mailbox in fact!  I defected to
> recieving the Digest form, only to find myownemail.com wouldnt support such
> voluminous messaging!  I unsubscribed, and now, years later, ive just
> rejoined the fray - only to find the average digest posting seems to run to
> about 5 or 6 messages.  My question simply then, is this: am i recieving
> this digest properly, or is it just that the list has rather surprisingly
> wained?!  Do we really get what is tantamount to exclusive access to Ray
> these days or what?!
>
> Also, is it possible to get a 'super digest' of, say the last 2 years of
> threads, news etc. Perhaps i should just ask Ray 'anything i need know?!'.
>
> As for making some sort of meaningful comtribution, i should really lurk
> for a while, until im more sure i'll not be ressurrecting some old topic of
> discussion.  Legends of the Riftwar i havent read yet (doing Bored of the
> Rings in lieu of the film just now) however, any interesting matters
> arising from that tome?
>
> Cheers,
>
> Damian Smith
>
> (Now a doctor, pleased to say!)
> ----------------------------------------------
> Original Message
> From: ""<FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> Subject: FEISTFANS-L digest 35
> Date: Wed,  6 Feb 2002 00:02:07 EST
>
> >
> >     FEISTFANS-L Digest 35
> >
> >Topics covered in this issue include:
> >
> >  1) Re: SET FEISTFANS-L MAIL ACK
> > by John <john@crydee.com>
> >  2) RE: SET FEISTFANS-L MAIL ACK
> > by "Steven McCarthy" <steven@connect.ie>
> >  3) Re:
> > by "James Barker" <heechee@softhome.net>
> >  4) Re:
> > by "Alex Loke" <nerf@alphalink.com.au>
> >  5) Re:
> > by "Chris Smith" <cjs94@zepler.org.uk>
> >  6) Publisher in the US?
> > by Gkhd11a@aol.com
> >  7) Re: Publisher in the US?
> > by Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
> >
> >
>
>



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From: "John Loader" <listcheck77@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Game publishing rights
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Subject: Game publishing rights
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Mr. Feist or knowledgeable list members,

My curiosity has caused me to de-lurk once again to inquire about the game 
publishing rights of Mr. Feist.  What are the chances of a new game coming 
out along the lines of the other Krondor games?

What publisher would be used, or would be preferred to use?

What developer would be used, or would be preferred to use?

I guess my motivation for asking is that I work for a software publishing 
company and licensing issues are beginning to interest me.  I think it would 
be fun to suggest to the owners of my company to pursue other avenues of 
software, ie Games :).

Thanks,

John Loader



_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 11:46:08 -0800
Subject: Re: Game publishing rights
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On Thursday, February 7, 2002, at 09:26 AM, John Loader wrote:

> Mr. Feist or knowledgeable list members,
>
> My curiosity has caused me to de-lurk once again to inquire about the 
> game publishing rights of Mr. Feist.  What are the chances of a new 
> game coming out along the lines of the other Krondor games?
>
> What publisher would be used, or would be preferred to use?
>
> What developer would be used, or would be preferred to use?
>
> I guess my motivation for asking is that I work for a software 
> publishing company and licensing issues are beginning to interest me.  
> I think it would be fun to suggest to the owners of my company to 
> pursue other avenues of software, ie Games :).
>
> Thanks,
>
> John Loader
>
>

Right now, I hold all rights.  I'm listening to offers, but haven't 
heard one that's made sense so far.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Subject: Re: Game publishing rights
Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 22:35:06 +0000
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[snip]
>
>Right now, I hold all rights.  I'm listening to offers, but haven't
>heard one that's made sense so far.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
>stupidity.
>

On the creative side, is there a type of game that you are looking to 
develop or license? ie Online vs. Single Player vs. First Person.  Are there 
areas of your world that you would or would not consider letting someone 
base a software title off of?

Compared to your other two software titles, what sort of role do you want to 
have as the game is developed and published?

Thanks,

John Loader

Financially,



_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 16:19:34 -0800
Subject: Re: Game publishing rights
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On Thursday, February 7, 2002, at 02:35 PM, John Loader wrote:

> [snip]
>>
>> Right now, I hold all rights.  I'm listening to offers, but haven't
>> heard one that's made sense so far.
>>
>> Best,†R.E.F.
>> ----
>>
>> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
>> stupidity.
>>
>
> On the creative side, is there a type of game that you are looking to 
> develop or license? ie Online vs. Single Player vs. First Person.  Are 
> there areas of your world that you would or would not consider letting 
> someone base a software title off of?
>
> Compared to your other two software titles, what sort of role do you 
> want to have as the game is developed and published?
>

Everything revolves around two issues: quality and money.  I have no 
problem with any particular game design, MMORPG, SKU, multi-player CD, 
etc.  as long as it's a quality product.  And the money has to make 
sense.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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From: "John Loader" <listcheck77@hotmail.com>
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From: "John Loader" <listcheck77@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Game publishing rights
Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2002 01:00:14 +0000
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>From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
>Subject: Re: Game publishing rights
>Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 16:19:34 -0800
>
>
>On Thursday, February 7, 2002, at 02:35 PM, John Loader wrote:
>
>>[snip]
>>>
>>>Right now, I hold all rights.  I'm listening to offers, but haven't
>>>heard one that's made sense so far.
>>>
>>>Best,†R.E.F.
>>>----
>>>
>>>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
>>>stupidity.
>>>
>>
>>On the creative side, is there a type of game that you are looking to
>>develop or license? ie Online vs. Single Player vs. First Person.  Are
>>there areas of your world that you would or would not consider letting
>>someone base a software title off of?
>>
>>Compared to your other two software titles, what sort of role do you
>>want to have as the game is developed and published?
>>
>
>Everything revolves around two issues: quality and money.  I have no
>problem with any particular game design, MMORPG, SKU, multi-player CD,
>etc.  as long as it's a quality product.  And the money has to make
>sense.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
>stupidity.
>

Seems like a slow day on the list...anyways, I think I see what you are 
saying.

Now, I know what MMORPG is: Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game, 
but I do not remember what "SKU" stands for.  Also, what do you mean by 
multi-player CD?  Character Development...like Baldur's Gate?

I know in the music business, publishing rights can bring in a ton of 
royalties that continue for a long period of time.  Is that the same with 
respect to software titles?

How many copies of each of your games were sold?

Thanks for taking the time to reply,

John Loader



_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com



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Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 17:13:00 -0800
Subject: Re: Game publishing rights
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 17:13:00 -0800
Subject: Re: Game publishing rights
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Thursday, February 7, 2002, at 05:00 PM, John Loader wrote:

>> From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
>> Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
>> Subject: Re: Game publishing rights
>> Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 16:19:34 -0800
>>
>>
>> On Thursday, February 7, 2002, at 02:35 PM, John Loader wrote:
>>
>>> [snip]
>>>>
>>>> Right now, I hold all rights.  I'm listening to offers, but haven't
>>>> heard one that's made sense so far.
>>>>
>>>> Best,ÜR.E.F.
>>>> ----
>>>>
>>>> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away 
>>>> by
>>>> stupidity.
>>>>
>>>
>>> On the creative side, is there a type of game that you are looking to
>>> develop or license? ie Online vs. Single Player vs. First Person.  Are
>>> there areas of your world that you would or would not consider letting
>>> someone base a software title off of?
>>>
>>> Compared to your other two software titles, what sort of role do you
>>> want to have as the game is developed and published?
>>>
>>
>> Everything revolves around two issues: quality and money.  I have no
>> problem with any particular game design, MMORPG, SKU, multi-player CD,
>> etc.  as long as it's a quality product.  And the money has to make
>> sense.
>>
>> Best, R.E.F.
>> ----
>>
>> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
>> stupidity.
>>
>
> Seems like a slow day on the list...anyways, I think I see what you are 
> saying.
>
> Now, I know what MMORPG is: Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing 
> Game, but I do not remember what "SKU" stands for.

"SKU" is a term for inventory control at a retail outlet, so you're 
talking about any product (CD-ROM, Cassette for Playstation, etc.) that 
is tracked, from which royalties are paid on a per unit basis.

> Also, what do you mean by multi-player CD?

A CD-ROM which allows for multi-player function over the internet or via 
a local network.


> Character Development...like Baldur's Gate?
>
> I know in the music business, publishing rights can bring in a ton of 
> royalties that continue for a long period of time.  Is that the same 
> with respect to software titles?

No.  Software titles tend to the fugitive in terms of royalty duration.  
No one is buying thousands of copies of Land of Lore I, but people are 
still buying thousands of copies of the Rolling Stones' Exile on Main 
Street.


>
> How many copies of each of your games were sold?
>

I have no idea.  So many of the Sierra titles get bundled, are 
downloaded, etc.  Betrayal at Krondor probably was given away in the 
tens of thousands of units at one time as a "tease" for Return to 
Krondor.

In terms of hard cash sales, I'm guessing a quarter million units 
combined, top.  I wouldn't be surprised to find out it was half that, 
say seventy-five thousand copies of Return and fifty thousand copies of 
Betrayal.  And a fair number of those were at deep discount which netted 
me very low royalty points.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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To: "Arild Fjeldahl" <arfjel@frisurf.no>, "Cindy Hung" <xanedra@home.com>,
        "Feistfans" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>,
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Subject: Yippi!!!
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2002 19:05:31 +0100
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Annelize & Tommy" <tommjens@online.no>
To: "Arild Fjeldahl" <arfjel@frisurf.no>, "Cindy Hung" <xanedra@home.com>,
        "Feistfans" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>,
        "havard walla" <h_walla@hotmail.com>, "Helen" <zaph-art@frisurf.no>,
        "Kenneth Haeger" <audiman200@hotmail.com>, "Lupe" <lupita@c2i.net>,
        "Michelle Worsfold" <michelle.worsfold@eskom.co.za>,
        "Mike Winterton" <mike.winterton@eskom.co.za>,
        "Nellie" <happyfamily4@mweb.co.za>,
        "Ole Antonsen" <ole-anto@online.no>,
        "Robin Carrie Mikkelsen" <robincm@online.no>
Subject: Yippi!!!
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2002 19:05:31 +0100
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Enjoy the weekend everyone!

Tommy

P.S. The attached file is a picture, not a virus. The file name is
fredag.gif D.S.

[attachment elided - Archivist]

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Subject: Sorry!!!
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Annelize & Tommy" <tommjens@online.no>
To: "Feistfans" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Sorry!!!
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2002 19:31:57 +0100
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This was not meant for the list, and I apologize. Won't happen again!

Tommy



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From: "LaughingFrog" <badeand.dk@mail.dk>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Sorry!!!
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2002 19:57:08 +0100
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

If it's a picture, then why is at a .DAT file????


**********************************
LaughingFrog
**********************************
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Annelize & Tommy" <tommjens@online.no>
To: "Feistfans" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2002 7:31 PM
Subject: Sorry!!!


> This was not meant for the list, and I apologize. Won't happen again!
> 
> Tommy
> 
> 



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Subject: Re: Sorry!!!
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*** EOOH ***
From: RavusLupus@aol.com
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2002 16:51:59 EST
Subject: Re: Sorry!!!
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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cus he didnt upload it properly, rename it to '.gif' and it works fine

Jaszon



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Subject: RE: Sorry!!!
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*** EOOH ***
From: "MChaloner" <markchaloner@btinternet.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Sorry!!!
Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2002 12:30:35 -0000
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If it's a picture, then why is at a .DAT file????

> This was not meant for the list, and I apologize. Won't happen again!
> 
> Tommy
> 
> 

I had a look at it - it's just a cartoon fat man belly dancing. No
worries.



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Subject: Re: Sorry!!!
Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2002 14:22:14 +0100
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Annelize & Tommy" <tommjens@online.no>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Sorry!!!
Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2002 14:22:14 +0100
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

From: "MChaloner" <markchaloner@btinternet.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2002 1:30 PM
Subject: RE: Sorry!!!

> I had a look at it - it's just a cartoon fat man belly dancing. No
> worries.
>

I have Norton Internet Security which I keep up to date, it scans all my
outgoing mail to avoid sending viruses. I've used the Internet since 1994,
and this is the first time I've accidentally managed to rename a file. The
picture was meant for my friends, not the list. Not that you're not friends,
but I try to stick to list policy about attachments of any kind ;-)

I just finished HE, have to say I loved it! Any plans to do another book
with the same author some time in the distant future, Ray? I guess I'm
probably hoping for too much, but it never hurts to ask...

Tommy



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From: "MChaloner" <markchaloner@btinternet.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Sorry!!!
Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2002 13:42:52 -0000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "MChaloner" <markchaloner@btinternet.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Sorry!!!
Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2002 13:42:52 -0000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

> > I had a look at it - it's just a cartoon fat man belly dancing. No 
> > worries.
> >
> 
> I have Norton Internet Security which I keep up to date, it 
> scans all my outgoing mail to avoid sending viruses. I've 
> used the Internet since 1994, and this is the first time I've 
> accidentally managed to rename a file. The picture was meant 
> for my friends, not the list. Not that you're not friends, 
> but I try to stick to list policy about attachments of any kind ;-)
> 
> I just finished HE, have to say I loved it! Any plans to do 
> another book with the same author some time in the distant 
> future, Ray? I guess I'm probably hoping for too much, but it 
> never hurts to ask...
> 
> Tommy


(Still better than my Simpson's hey?) <grins>

Mark ;-)



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Subject: Re: Sorry!!!
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Barker" <heechee@softhome.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Sorry!!!
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 01:18:36 +1100
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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----- Original Message -----
From: "MChaloner" <markchaloner@btinternet.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2002 12:42 AM
Subject: RE: Sorry!!!

> (Still better than my Simpson's hey?) <grins>
>
> Mark ;-)
>

LOL, now that was a faux pas and a half... Although I think most people
would have forgotten it, had you not brought it up...

Cheers,
James



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2002 09:36:05 -0800
Subject: Re: Sorry!!!
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Saturday, February 9, 2002, at 05:22 AM, Annelize & Tommy wrote:

> From: "MChaloner" <markchaloner@btinternet.com>
> To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2002 1:30 PM
> Subject: RE: Sorry!!!
>
>> I had a look at it - it's just a cartoon fat man belly dancing. No
>> worries.
>>
>
> I have Norton Internet Security which I keep up to date, it scans all my
> outgoing mail to avoid sending viruses. I've used the Internet since 
> 1994,
> and this is the first time I've accidentally managed to rename a file. 
> The
> picture was meant for my friends, not the list. Not that you're not 
> friends,
> but I try to stick to list policy about attachments of any kind ;-)
>
> I just finished HE, have to say I loved it! Any plans to do another book
> with the same author some time in the distant future, Ray? I guess I'm
> probably hoping for too much, but it never hurts to ask...
>

I don't know if Bill and I will work together, but you never know.  
Right not I'm getting geared up to work on Jimmy the Hand with Steve 
Stirling while I finish Talon.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Barker" <heechee@softhome.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: FAQ
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 23:58:51 +1100
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G'day all,

Just a quick note to say that I am now working with Larry to update the FAQ,
and the associated pages. Expect something experimental in a couple of
weeks, if everything goes according to plan.

Cheers,
James



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From: "Western Rhythm" <info@westernrhythm.com>
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Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 16:39:01 +0800
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Western Rhythm" <info@westernrhythm.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: hi
Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 16:39:01 +0800
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Hi everyone,

how are things going on the list? Its been sometime since I was here
last.

Honoured Enemy was excellent by they way Ray!!!

cheers

David Graham Hay
Western Rhythm Premier Entertainment.
www.westernrhythm.com
manager@westernrhythm.com

'Feel the Rhythm'

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From: "Milamber" <milamber_aka_pug@hotmail.com>
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Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 09:27:01 -0000
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Hello Ray and my fellow Feist Fans.

Without going through the usual " I have read them all" speach
I would just like to say a big THANKS to Ray for his books.
My personal favourites are Magician and Rise of a Merchant Prince
however the Empire series also are superb.
I am reading Magician for the 17th time and although this sounds
extreme if not sad, I still find the series of books compelling.

I am especially looking forward to Jimmy the Hand, and would love
a book devoted to Tomas although I know this may never happen.

I hope to contribute to the discussions posted on the list in a constructive
way so until then take care all.

Chris

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From: "Monwar" <monwar1982@yahoo.com>
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Subject: My foolish history :(
Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 21:30:31 +0600
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From: "Monwar" <monwar1982@yahoo.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: My foolish history :(
Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 21:30:31 +0600
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Hi guys,

Well I was a regular subscriber of this group till Jan 14th. I changed my
house at that time and I could not connect to the internet for 20+ days
during that. So I have not been following the latest topics in this group.
But in these days I finished all the Feist series (except the Riftwar Legacy
books) and I think it's my time to give my opinion.

THE EARLY DAYS

First of all, sorry for the poor English. My mother tongue is Bengali.

Let me tell you a bit 'bout myself first. I live in Bangladesh. Not much to
boast of really - it's one of the most poorest countries (16th or 18th I
think) in the world but there is a great deal of income disparity here. If
you take a look at some parts of the capital city, you will be hard-pressed
to admit that you're in one of the poorest countries in the world. The per
capita income is only $383 but necessary goods are quite cheap and poor
people are somewhat happy, IN THEIR OWN WAY.
My name is Monwar Hussain and I'm 19. My culture is very different from the
typical western culture. We have our roots with the old Aryan tribe and we
have mixed with moderate Islam (yes, moderate Islam). It would take a book
to describe fully our culture, but know that its quite different from yours.

Well I am lucky enough to be educated in the best school and college of the
country. But when I got the first Feist book, I was in grade 6. I got it
from one of my cousins who lived in America and came to Dhaka (the capital)
for a visit. I mean, my cousin was not at home when I went to his home with
my parents and everyone knew that I was a bookworm. I asked my aunt to lend
me a book from my cousins collection and she told me to choose and and bring
to her. I chose the fattest book and the cover fascinated me. An old man was
standing with a young boy in front of a smoky pool and a dragonlike creature
was watching them. I took that book and my aunt allowed me to
take...sorry... lend that. I never returned that book :)
Before that, I never read a English book. Unfortunately, the standard of
English teaching in my country is very poor but fortunately, I was in the
best school. I tried it. I was only 12 then.

The first words were easy to understand, "The Storm Broke."

OK, then I had to stumble. There were so many tough words, and can someone
be named Pug? Oh, what a foolish name. I used an English-to-Bengali
dictionary but I had to consult it 20+ times in the first one and a half
page.

I quit reading the book. It was stored in an obscure part of my huge
bookshelf, full of Bengali books.

One and a half years later.

I was studying Bengali Grammar for an exam I think when I caught sight of
that fascinating cover (by Geoff Taylor) again. OK, I took up that book
again, wiped the dust and then read the synopsis again. Two friends, strange
new magic? Well, the word magic never failed in fascinating my mind.

I started again, and I stumbled again.

But this time I was determined. I continued to consult the dictionary and
read the first 9 pages. What a bad story! A boy taking food from a pool to
his master and 9 oages for that. But I vowed to continue until I found a
word about magic.
I took the book with me to school next day. My friends were a bit critical
with me. Nobody read 650 page English novels when they're only thirteen and
a half. Some of my friends tried and all resigned after reading the first
para. But I continued.
In the 6th period, I got on to the part when Pug went to Kulgan's room. No
more dictionary, I just kept reading judging my own intellect should be
enough to extract the gist.

I liked that part. Then I came back home and kept stumbling through. I met
Tomas, I learned about Banapis and when Kulgan took Pug as apprentice, I was
hooked.

I kept reading for hours. It was very very tough for me. You who speak
English as a mother tongue would never understand. I didn't know what an elf
was. I tried the dic, but the description pointed toward evil shar-eared
creatures :(
Man, then I kpt reaidng it and after a month I finished it. Believe me, I
didn't understand many things, but I liked it sooooooooooooo much. So damn
much. It was just the perfect tale.
Till then, I have read Magician 6 times. I am now fully able to understand
it. I rwemember how my blood quickened when Milamber stood at the imperial
gallary and told 'Tremble and Despair! For I am power!"
Some of my friends borrowed it from me (when I was in grade 7 or 8) but none
got past the first chapter. All returned it to me and told me, "Tough
English!!"

Well I never knew that there were sequels. For the next four years, my mind
unconciously searched for any books by 'Raymond E. Feist'. But I was never
desparate for it. My father bought me a PC when I was in grade 9 and I got
internet when I was in Intermediate First Year (not grade 11, our system s
different).

But the taste for Englsih books was born, but I never liked any other books.
Well I tried only another book, 'The Two
Towers' by J R R Tolkien and I never liked it.

But one nice day, while roaming through the British Council Library in
Dhaka, I found another books by this author name Raymond E Feist.

And I read it. What, Pug here??? I found out in the index that there was
more to Magician then just Magician. There were at least 10 more books. I
had no way to get them. However I finished Rage and I liked it. But I didn't
know who this Nakor was or who was Erik or Roo.

I searched every shops in Dhaka for more Feist books. There were none but
Rage. I ordered it, they failed to bring it!! There were no copies.

But soon after that I got the ineternet and learned about Google and search
engines. I also learned about newsgroups (interesting - very very few people
in my country know about or use ngs, though there are 200000 internet
users). I saw the Feistfans faq and was fascinated to know more about those
books related to Magician. I didn't know how to subscribe to a mailing list
and so I could not ask anyone (I was very new to the net at that time, onlt
3-4 days I think) about finding Feist books.

Six months later, I found out about Amazon.com and read all the synopsis and
user reviews and I was very desparate fro Feist books. My father and mother
was sympathetic towards me. I was always a good student and that was the
reason. I searched the book shops again and no Feist books. I was so angry.
I have many cousins in the US, but nonme of them is coming here in the near
future so I could not get those books.

So I started to ask anyone who knew about Feist (there were very few on the
net because did not how to find those guys out) where can I find the books.
Some suggested Amazon. Unfortunately I had no credit card and I thought it a
bit strange how from 12000 kms away some guy can ship me a book. I LACKED
THE MEANS.

A year passed. I nearly forgot about the matter.

Luck helps men in many ways. One day, I posted a post to rec.games.frp.dnd
just to check if I could use the lates CIS.DFN server. I was rebuked by some
when I wrote "TEST" or "HI! JUST TEST". So I decided to write something
different in this post. The post was,

"Hi! Where can I get Feist books??"

I never thought anyone would answer. But one day, some guy named Neak or
Neal or N***(??) mailed me and wrote,

"Try Google."
I answered
"I have tried."
"Then try mIRC."
"What is that?"
"THat's an IRC client."
"Hey I hate chatting."
"YOu don't have to chat. Try bookwarez."

I searched through the net and got a copy of KMB's Mirc. I didn't know how
to use it. I had to write more mails to N*** (Well I forgot his name! That's
what the asteriks represent) to learn the procedure od using the software.

Then I got to bookwarez. And I typed '!kittybooks' as the guy told me. No
books!!!!!!!

Then I wanted help in the channel. Someone name Pasio or Pasido told me to
use DOS commands.

Fuck! I don't know how to use it. I quit!!

After a month, I tried again, this time armed with help from some mIRC
manuals on the web.

There was a directory named Feist and there were some books listed. You
can't imagine what happened then. My heart leaped. I downloaded
'Silverthorn'.

My heart sank.

It was just a text file. But it had the whole story.

I started reading it.

But it was sooooooooooooooooo difficult to read. ('Clear' was 'dear'. 'And'
was 'ant'.) Often pages did not follow correctly.
I complained about it to a girl of from Yugoslavia in the chatroom and she
told me to used Ghostscript to convert to more readable pdf format.

But I found another gem of a program named Gymnast which converts txt to
pdf. Since then, it is six months. It is wextremely tough to read books on
screen, but I have finished iT!!!

I have read ST, ADAS, PoB, TKB, Serpentwar and Empire.

I have some opinions on those books, specially about continuing the
Mara-Kevin affair in Mistress and more character development, but well I am
in now position to criticize Mr. Feist's work.

Why?

(ONE) 1. I have only read the following English books and I am not much
efficient in the language :
====RIFTWAR SAGA====
1. Silverthorn
2. A Darkness at Sethanon
3. Prince of the Blood
4. Falcon Guard
5. Daughter of the Drow
====SERPENTWAR SAGA======
6. SOaDQ
7. RoAMP
8. RoADQ
9. SoABC
====EMPIRE TRILOGY====
10. Daughter of the Empire
11. Servant of the Empire
12. Mistress of the Empire
War and Peace
Some Dragonlance books
The Crystal Shard

(TWO) 2. I had to admit it, I stole the books. I should have bought all
those books, but by God's sake, I tried my very best to buy those books and
could not get those.

But the pleasure I got from reading those books, I thank those guys who put
up those OCR'd copies for us guys who live ibn opbscure corners of the
world.

And I am repenting. My cousin has bought for me the RiftWar (except no 1)
and SerPENtwar (except no 3) and when she heard that I have read those, she
frowned, "Then why did you send money to buy these? These are fat books and
customs..."
"Well I HAD to buy them." I explained to her. I hope o buy the Empire
trilogy soon. It costs a lot of money though, 1 dollar = 62 takas and our
value is also different. Her you can buy any benmgali book of 400 pages for
60 takas. But SOaDQ cost me 600 takas. I don't earn any money yet, I am
spending my scholaership money.

Well, here's my history. I will write about some of my complains about these
books next (very few). And thanks to Mr. Feist for these books. I have
started The Wheel of Time now (pdf copies ;)). I have two more pdf copies of
Feist yet to read : Krondor the Assassins and Krondor The Betrayal.

Thanks also to those guys who put up those txt files in the web and the guy
(N***) who taught me to use it. It's a treasure store. But believe me, if I
get paperback copies I never read these books in my monitor. I have Wot book
3,6,7,8,9 in paperback.

I enjoyed the Feist books to my heart's content. Thank you again, Mr Feist,
for enlightening my heart with your writing.
(Oh and sorry for all these spelling and grammatical mistakes, I had to
write it in a haste. Also I look forward to hearing about your first Feist
book reading experience)


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com



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Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 09:34:37 -0800
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 09:34:37 -0800
Subject: Re: New to the list
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Monday, February 11, 2002, at 01:27 AM, Milamber wrote:

> Hello Ray and my fellow Feist Fans.
>  
> Without going through the usual " I have read them all" speach
> I would just like to say a big THANKS to Ray for his books.

Welcome and thanks.

> My personal favourites are Magician and Rise of a Merchant Prince
> however the Empire series also are superb.
> I am reading Magician for the 17th time and although this sounds
> extreme if not sad, I still find the series of books compelling.
>  
> I am especially looking forward to Jimmy the Hand, and would love
> a book devoted to Tomas although I know this may never happen.

It may never happen, but then again, it might.  The wonderful thing 
about writing about Midkemia is that I treat it like it's a virtual 
world, so any "history" story is possible.

>  
> I hope to contribute to the discussions posted on the list in a 
> constructive
> way so until then take care all.
>

Hey!  Wait a minute!  You start being constructive and some people 
around here are going to get upset!

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.

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Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 09:43:15 -0800
Subject: Re: My foolish history :(
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 09:43:15 -0800
Subject: Re: My foolish history :(
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Monday, February 11, 2002, at 07:30 AM, Monwar wrote:

Monwar,

Welcome to the list.

You know, it's a funny thing, but if everyone who downloaded pirated 
copies of my work were as honest as you are, I would have no problem 
with those text files being out there.

You're an ethical young man and your desire to do the right thing by 
eventually paying for the work is to be commended and is very much 
appreciated by myself.

I realize that it's difficult to get my work in parts of the world (I've 
had similar stories told to me by people in Turkey and other parts of 
the Middle East and in non-Former English colonies Africa), and wish it 
was as easy to get books via Amazon through some local customs agencies 
as it is here in the US or in Europe.

Again, welcome to the list, and thanks for sticking with that big hard 
to read English novel. <G>

Best, R.E.F>----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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From: "Monwar" <monwar1982@yahoo.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
References: <D3B6202A-1F16-11D6-B6C4-003065A8A644@bittersea.com>
Subject: Re: My foolish history :(
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 00:32:30 +0600
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Monwar" <monwar1982@yahoo.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: My foolish history :(
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 00:32:30 +0600
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

> Monwar,
>
> Welcome to the list.

Well I have been following this list for some time. My previous name was
Black Dragon. I was just too busy reading the posts from other guys. Their
posts are very enjoyable. Also thanks to you for taking the time to talk
with your fans.

> I realize that it's difficult to get my work in parts of the world (I've
> had similar stories told to me by people in Turkey and other parts of
> the Middle East and in non-Former English colonies Africa), and wish it
> was as easy to get books via Amazon through some local customs agencies
> as it is here in the US or in Europe.

Can't anything be done? I recently checked the Import-Export depertment
website of my country and wrote an e-mail to the Director. He told me that
being a poor country, our govt. has decided to control the importing of
luxury goods and books are considered as luxury goods. However, that law has
recenly been greatly modified. It would be great if your publishers consult
with the necessary authority and send some books to my country. Plus, you
have also got India with a population of 1120 million (we are neighboring
countries and we've close ties). Your books are very very rare in India too
(nearly non-existent except for a shop in Mumbai, but there are many copies
of Wheel of Time books and Eddings - what's that??). So you're neglecting a
market of more than 1500 million people, well, consider that 300 million,
because only 30-40% ppl of this region is educated.

> Again, welcome to the list, and thanks for sticking with that big hard
> to read English novel. <G>

Truth be told, reading your books has increased my English writing skill a
lot and I scored 72 out of 100 in my English Literarture and 92/100 in my
grammar test, the highest and which helped me greatly in securing the first
position in my whole college (note indirect boasting ;) ). That's another
reason you deserve getting the price for your books.


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com



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*** EOOH ***
From: "Monwar" <monwar1982@yahoo.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 00:39:24 +0600
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

One more question Mr. Feist,

I was just browsing through old Google records and noticed that there was a
lot of outcry about the whole Mara-Kevin affair after Mistress was
published. Why did you trashed Kevin in Servant and brought him back in
Mistress? Who took that decision of removing Kevin, you, or JW? The events
seem a bit too unnatural too. Wouldn't it  have been better if you kept
Kevin?

Also, there are some later discrepancies, like talking about the Omechan
like it is a great house instead of a clan - but those are very trivial.
It's a pity that you won't write more Empire novels. I really enjoyed the
series. Though I am new to English literarture, the time you took in
character developmrnt in the  Empire trilogy, specially Arakasi and Lujan -
was great. If you had implemented the same thing in the Serpentwar saga, I
believe it would have been a much better series.


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com



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From: "Dave Curran" <dave@davecurran.demon.co.uk>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: My foolish history :(
Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 19:04:11 -0000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Dave Curran" <dave@davecurran.demon.co.uk>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: My foolish history :(
Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 19:04:11 -0000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Monwar,

It was great to read your email. You actually made me smile.
I started remembering how much I enjoyed reading all of the books, and how
excited I would be when another was released.

I am very fortunate because I live in Scotland (UK), and so I am able to get
the books from most book shops.

I have double copies of both "Prince of the blood" and "Silverthorn"... and
I believe anyone that tries as hard as you did to get these books deserves
something for nothing. So, send me your postal address (off the list if you
prefer to, dave@davecurran.demon.co.uk ) and I will post them to you.

You never know, perhaps someone else on the list will have a double copy of
another book to add to your collection!

...Dave...

Success is the journey, not the destination.
Enjoy today!

PS. Sorry if I cost you two sales Ray... but come on, he deserves a break!
<g>




> (ONE) 1. I have only read the following English books and I am not much
> efficient in the language :
> ====RIFTWAR SAGA====
> 1. Silverthorn
> 2. A Darkness at Sethanon
> 3. Prince of the Blood
> 4. Falcon Guard
> 5. Daughter of the Drow
> ====SERPENTWAR SAGA======
> 6. SOaDQ
> 7. RoAMP
> 8. RoADQ
> 9. SoABC
> ====EMPIRE TRILOGY====
> 10. Daughter of the Empire
> 11. Servant of the Empire
> 12. Mistress of the Empire
> War and Peace
> Some Dragonlance books
> The Crystal Shard
>
> (TWO) 2. I had to admit it, I stole the books. I should have bought all
> those books, but by God's sake, I tried my very best to buy those
> books and
> could not get those.




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From: "Paddyjack [ ]" <erykel@lycos.com>
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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 14:52:26 -0500
From: "Paddyjack [ ]" <erykel@lycos.com>
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 I usually don't read long posts (except Rip's <g>), but I must admit
yours was very interesting to read.

Now... Wheel of Time in pdf!! Gosh, that must be hard. Those are big
books to read in pdf :-)

Paddyjack

--

On Mon, 11 Feb 2002 21:30:31  
 Monwar wrote:
>Hi guys,
>
>Well I was a regular subscriber of this group till Jan 14th. I changed my
>house at that time and I could not connect to the internet for 20+ days
>during that. So I have not been following the latest topics in this group.
>But in these days I finished all the Feist series (except the Riftwar Legacy
>books) and I think it's my time to give my opinion.
>
>THE EARLY DAYS
>
>First of all, sorry for the poor English. My mother tongue is Bengali.
>
>Let me tell you a bit 'bout myself first. I live in Bangladesh. Not much to
>boast of really - it's one of the most poorest countries (16th or 18th I
>think) in the world but there is a great deal of income disparity here. If
>you take a look at some parts of the capital city, you will be hard-pressed
>to admit that you're in one of the poorest countries in the world. The per
>capita income is only $383 but necessary goods are quite cheap and poor
>people are somewhat happy, IN THEIR OWN WAY.
>My name is Monwar Hussain and I'm 19. My culture is very different from the
>typical western culture. We have our roots with the old Aryan tribe and we
>have mixed with moderate Islam (yes, moderate Islam). It would take a book
>to describe fully our culture, but know that its quite different from yours.
>
>Well I am lucky enough to be educated in the best school and college of the
>country. But when I got the first Feist book, I was in grade 6. I got it
>from one of my cousins who lived in America and came to Dhaka (the capital)
>for a visit. I mean, my cousin was not at home when I went to his home with
>my parents and everyone knew that I was a bookworm. I asked my aunt to lend
>me a book from my cousins collection and she told me to choose and and bring
>to her. I chose the fattest book and the cover fascinated me. An old man was
>standing with a young boy in front of a smoky pool and a dragonlike creature
>was watching them. I took that book and my aunt allowed me to
>take...sorry... lend that. I never returned that book :)
>Before that, I never read a English book. Unfortunately, the standard of
>English teaching in my country is very poor but fortunately, I was in the
>best school. I tried it. I was only 12 then.
>
>The first words were easy to understand, "The Storm Broke."
>
>OK, then I had to stumble. There were so many tough words, and can someone
>be named Pug? Oh, what a foolish name. I used an English-to-Bengali
>dictionary but I had to consult it 20+ times in the first one and a half
>page.
>
>I quit reading the book. It was stored in an obscure part of my huge
>bookshelf, full of Bengali books.
>
>One and a half years later.
>
>I was studying Bengali Grammar for an exam I think when I caught sight of
>that fascinating cover (by Geoff Taylor) again. OK, I took up that book
>again, wiped the dust and then read the synopsis again. Two friends, strange
>new magic? Well, the word magic never failed in fascinating my mind.
>
>I started again, and I stumbled again.
>
>But this time I was determined. I continued to consult the dictionary and
>read the first 9 pages. What a bad story! A boy taking food from a pool to
>his master and 9 oages for that. But I vowed to continue until I found a
>word about magic.
>I took the book with me to school next day. My friends were a bit critical
>with me. Nobody read 650 page English novels when they're only thirteen and
>a half. Some of my friends tried and all resigned after reading the first
>para. But I continued.
>In the 6th period, I got on to the part when Pug went to Kulgan's room. No
>more dictionary, I just kept reading judging my own intellect should be
>enough to extract the gist.
>
>I liked that part. Then I came back home and kept stumbling through. I met
>Tomas, I learned about Banapis and when Kulgan took Pug as apprentice, I was
>hooked.
>
>I kept reading for hours. It was very very tough for me. You who speak
>English as a mother tongue would never understand. I didn't know what an elf
>was. I tried the dic, but the description pointed toward evil shar-eared
>creatures :(
>Man, then I kpt reaidng it and after a month I finished it. Believe me, I
>didn't understand many things, but I liked it sooooooooooooo much. So damn
>much. It was just the perfect tale.
>Till then, I have read Magician 6 times. I am now fully able to understand
>it. I rwemember how my blood quickened when Milamber stood at the imperial
>gallary and told 'Tremble and Despair! For I am power!"
>Some of my friends borrowed it from me (when I was in grade 7 or 8) but none
>got past the first chapter. All returned it to me and told me, "Tough
>English!!"
>
>Well I never knew that there were sequels. For the next four years, my mind
>unconciously searched for any books by 'Raymond E. Feist'. But I was never
>desparate for it. My father bought me a PC when I was in grade 9 and I got
>internet when I was in Intermediate First Year (not grade 11, our system s
>different).
>
>But the taste for Englsih books was born, but I never liked any other books.
>Well I tried only another book, 'The Two
>Towers' by J R R Tolkien and I never liked it.
>
>But one nice day, while roaming through the British Council Library in
>Dhaka, I found another books by this author name Raymond E Feist.
>
>And I read it. What, Pug here??? I found out in the index that there was
>more to Magician then just Magician. There were at least 10 more books. I
>had no way to get them. However I finished Rage and I liked it. But I didn't
>know who this Nakor was or who was Erik or Roo.
>
>I searched every shops in Dhaka for more Feist books. There were none but
>Rage. I ordered it, they failed to bring it!! There were no copies.
>
>But soon after that I got the ineternet and learned about Google and search
>engines. I also learned about newsgroups (interesting - very very few people
>in my country know about or use ngs, though there are 200000 internet
>users). I saw the Feistfans faq and was fascinated to know more about those
>books related to Magician. I didn't know how to subscribe to a mailing list
>and so I could not ask anyone (I was very new to the net at that time, onlt
>3-4 days I think) about finding Feist books.
>
>Six months later, I found out about Amazon.com and read all the synopsis and
>user reviews and I was very desparate fro Feist books. My father and mother
>was sympathetic towards me. I was always a good student and that was the
>reason. I searched the book shops again and no Feist books. I was so angry.
>I have many cousins in the US, but nonme of them is coming here in the near
>future so I could not get those books.
>
>So I started to ask anyone who knew about Feist (there were very few on the
>net because did not how to find those guys out) where can I find the books.
>Some suggested Amazon. Unfortunately I had no credit card and I thought it a
>bit strange how from 12000 kms away some guy can ship me a book. I LACKED
>THE MEANS.
>
>A year passed. I nearly forgot about the matter.
>
>Luck helps men in many ways. One day, I posted a post to rec.games.frp.dnd
>just to check if I could use the lates CIS.DFN server. I was rebuked by some
>when I wrote "TEST" or "HI! JUST TEST". So I decided to write something
>different in this post. The post was,
>
>"Hi! Where can I get Feist books??"
>
>I never thought anyone would answer. But one day, some guy named Neak or
>Neal or N***(??) mailed me and wrote,
>
>"Try Google."
>I answered
>"I have tried."
>"Then try mIRC."
>"What is that?"
>"THat's an IRC client."
>"Hey I hate chatting."
>"YOu don't have to chat. Try bookwarez."
>
>I searched through the net and got a copy of KMB's Mirc. I didn't know how
>to use it. I had to write more mails to N*** (Well I forgot his name! That's
>what the asteriks represent) to learn the procedure od using the software.
>
>Then I got to bookwarez. And I typed '!kittybooks' as the guy told me. No
>books!!!!!!!
>
>Then I wanted help in the channel. Someone name Pasio or Pasido told me to
>use DOS commands.
>
>Fuck! I don't know how to use it. I quit!!
>
>After a month, I tried again, this time armed with help from some mIRC
>manuals on the web.
>
>There was a directory named Feist and there were some books listed. You
>can't imagine what happened then. My heart leaped. I downloaded
>'Silverthorn'.
>
>My heart sank.
>
>It was just a text file. But it had the whole story.
>
>I started reading it.
>
>But it was sooooooooooooooooo difficult to read. ('Clear' was 'dear'. 'And'
>was 'ant'.) Often pages did not follow correctly.
>I complained about it to a girl of from Yugoslavia in the chatroom and she
>told me to used Ghostscript to convert to more readable pdf format.
>
>But I found another gem of a program named Gymnast which converts txt to
>pdf. Since then, it is six months. It is wextremely tough to read books on
>screen, but I have finished iT!!!
>
>I have read ST, ADAS, PoB, TKB, Serpentwar and Empire.
>
>I have some opinions on those books, specially about continuing the
>Mara-Kevin affair in Mistress and more character development, but well I am
>in now position to criticize Mr. Feist's work.
>
>Why?
>
>(ONE) 1. I have only read the following English books and I am not much
>efficient in the language :
>====RIFTWAR SAGA====
>1. Silverthorn
>2. A Darkness at Sethanon
>3. Prince of the Blood
>4. Falcon Guard
>5. Daughter of the Drow
>====SERPENTWAR SAGA======
>6. SOaDQ
>7. RoAMP
>8. RoADQ
>9. SoABC
>====EMPIRE TRILOGY====
>10. Daughter of the Empire
>11. Servant of the Empire
>12. Mistress of the Empire
>War and Peace
>Some Dragonlance books
>The Crystal Shard
>
>(TWO) 2. I had to admit it, I stole the books. I should have bought all
>those books, but by God's sake, I tried my very best to buy those books and
>could not get those.
>
>But the pleasure I got from reading those books, I thank those guys who put
>up those OCR'd copies for us guys who live ibn opbscure corners of the
>world.
>
>And I am repenting. My cousin has bought for me the RiftWar (except no 1)
>and SerPENtwar (except no 3) and when she heard that I have read those, she
>frowned, "Then why did you send money to buy these? These are fat books and
>customs..."
>"Well I HAD to buy them." I explained to her. I hope o buy the Empire
>trilogy soon. It costs a lot of money though, 1 dollar = 62 takas and our
>value is also different. Her you can buy any benmgali book of 400 pages for
>60 takas. But SOaDQ cost me 600 takas. I don't earn any money yet, I am
>spending my scholaership money.
>
>Well, here's my history. I will write about some of my complains about these
>books next (very few). And thanks to Mr. Feist for these books. I have
>started The Wheel of Time now (pdf copies ;)). I have two more pdf copies of
>Feist yet to read : Krondor the Assassins and Krondor The Betrayal.
>
>Thanks also to those guys who put up those txt files in the web and the guy
>(N***) who taught me to use it. It's a treasure store. But believe me, if I
>get paperback copies I never read these books in my monitor. I have Wot book
>3,6,7,8,9 in paperback.
>
>I enjoyed the Feist books to my heart's content. Thank you again, Mr Feist,
>for enlightening my heart with your writing.
>(Oh and sorry for all these spelling and grammatical mistakes, I had to
>write it in a haste. Also I look forward to hearing about your first Feist
>book reading experience)
>
>
>_________________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>


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-
E
M
P
I
R
E

S
P
O
I
L
E
R
S



On Tue, 12 Feb 2002 00:39:24  
 Monwar wrote:
>One more question Mr. Feist,
>
>I was just browsing through old Google records and noticed that there was a
>lot of outcry about the whole Mara-Kevin affair after Mistress was
>published. Why did you trashed Kevin in Servant and brought him back in
>Mistress? Who took that decision of removing Kevin, you, or JW? The events
>seem a bit too unnatural too. Wouldn't it  have been better if you kept
>Kevin?
>

First of all, Ray can do whatever he pleases with his character, so my
opinion doesn't count much. However, my opinion on the Mara-Kevin
affair, to answer your question, is that sending Kevin back to
Midkemia was perfectly fine. When you think about it, Kevin could not
be freed, and Mara 1) didn't like him to be slave anymore 2) had to go
with her life.

To bring him back at the end of Mistress was a nice and interesting
touch IMO.

Paddyjack




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Subject: Wildfires
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 Hey Ray, 
  You and yours ok down there in SD?? Hope the fires
are well away from your home. Looks really nasty!
  
Anita
  

 'Every happy ending needs to have a start.'


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References: <NFBBKOHMNLCDNNLBCLKKKEMFCAAA.dave@davecurran.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: My foolish history :(
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From: "Monwar" <monwar1982@yahoo.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: My foolish history :(
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 02:05:25 +0600
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> I have double copies of both "Prince of the blood" and "Silverthorn"... and
> I believe anyone that tries as hard as you did to get these books deserves
> something for nothing. So, send me your postal address (off the list if you
> prefer to, dave@davecurran.demon.co.uk ) and I will post them to you.

Thanks so much for the offer, and I can send you my postal address (Wait,
it's 1:59 AM and I have recently arrived in a new house, so I will need to
go to the gate and check my new address in morning and send you that:) ).
But really, I would feel better if you don't send it. The waiting will cause
me a lot of tension and I already have Silverthorn. Still, if you want to
send, you can always do so. Better if you donate it to the British Council
Library here in Dhaka. Just send your two books to your BC (in the UK, I
mean the London HQ) and ask them to send those two copies to their branch in
Dhaka or Chittagong.

However, thanks a lot for so kind an offer.

> You never know, perhaps someone else on the list will have a double copy of
> another book to add to your collection!

I don't think I need more. Our postal service is good but very slow. So if
you send me a book, I may have to wait months to get it. My mother stayed in
Netherlands for 6 months and she could not bring all her luggage back from
that country. So she used the shipment method. We still haven't got that
after 7 years, 15000 tk worth of goods :)

And a followup post....


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Subject: Sex and culture
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 02:33:49 +0600
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From: "Monwar" <monwar1982@yahoo.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Sex and culture
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 02:33:49 +0600
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

...Here it is.

I have a very bad habbit of 'spying' people (and yes I'm quite adept at
that). Like I take your name and use Google Groups search or Verisign or
WhoWhere and many other sources and in a day, I know a lot more about you
than you want me to know.

I was reading some old posts on Ray, and the ng people were discussing about
a Midkemia D20. I knew that REF had divorced with Kathlyn Starbuck. And as I
said, I'm a guy from a very, very different culture than you're and I enjoy
myself in knowing about other cultures. That's why I enjoyed the 'Empire
Trilogy' so much.

This part of one of REF's post caught my eyes :

"My kids are healthy, my
house is warm, got a call today from one of the young ladies I'm dating,
my book with Joel is turned in."

The following comments and questions are not all meant to be offensive.
These questions are just out of curiosity and if you feel uneasy or
offended, just don't answer.

Isn't it considered immoral (sorry, I don't know the proper English word) in
your country to date or have sex with other women after having children from
another woman and still continuing to have sex or dating with other woman
younger than you?

Of course I know that 90% (?!) of American teenagers lose their 'virginity'
(Isn't this the word?) before 18, which is quite unthinkable in my culture,
but what is the basis of all this? Do you think this is necessary? This
'exposure' to bodily needs? Why isn't it considered offensive? Doesn't it
create social problems? Mr. Feist, why are you still dating with young
women, just for physical needs or to meet any other needs, namely 'for (the
sake of) love' [foolish question]? I know my language is vague because I
still have not got the proficiency to express myself clearly in English, and
as you note, my language is very stiff.

I needed to know this. Why is it not considered offensive in your culture?
Does this exist in European and trans-Tasman culture (Australia and New
Zealand) also? Then why doesn't it exist in Asian cultures? Is there a much
stronger influence of 'religion' in Asian cultures, or just 'tradition'
plays a part? Isn't an woman considered 'used' (very sorry for wrong use of
the word) when she has had sex with another person before marriage to her
current husband? The same for man too, does it not happen?

The big question is, do you think it is harmful for a society or useful for
it? I have noticed in newsgroups that the US govt is working very hard to
promote family values among young men/women and is spending millions for sex
education. So, is this having a bad affect?

And does your religion allows it? I mean Christianity and Judaism (I don't
know if Mr. Feist is jew or Christian). Or has it just stemmed from social
'tradition'? Is it happening for Centuries in the Western culture, or just
for years in the 'New World'?

So these are my questions. I am not at all conservative, I am just trying to
understand your society. Who said Tsurananni was a strange culture, you
Americans are also quite strange in many ways. My interest in this topic
grew after a sister (cousin) of mine wrote in snail mail that in a town of
Connecticut (I forgot the name), 80% of teenage girls had childs before 18
and it was seen as a status symbol. Does it mean that interest for the
'family' in US is lessening, especially after the stronng devorce laws ("my
ex-wife getting more of my income than I do" - Feist)? Is marriage a burden
in your society?

I will explain my society in another mail. It's 2:28 AM and I have to study
a bit of Computer Science and then sleep. Good night. I look forward to your
answers. Again, no offense meant.

                                                                - Monwar



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 13:16:54 -0800
Subject: Re: My foolish history :(
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Monday, February 11, 2002, at 10:32 AM, Monwar wrote:

>> Monwar,
>>
>> Welcome to the list.
>
> Well I have been following this list for some time. My previous name was
> Black Dragon. I was just too busy reading the posts from other guys. 
> Their
> posts are very enjoyable. Also thanks to you for taking the time to talk
> with your fans.
>
>> I realize that it's difficult to get my work in parts of the world 
>> (I've
>> had similar stories told to me by people in Turkey and other parts of
>> the Middle East and in non-Former English colonies Africa), and wish it
>> was as easy to get books via Amazon through some local customs agencies
>> as it is here in the US or in Europe.
>
> Can't anything be done? I recently checked the Import-Export depertment
> website of my country and wrote an e-mail to the Director. He told me 
> that
> being a poor country, our govt. has decided to control the importing of
> luxury goods and books are considered as luxury goods. However, that 
> law has
> recenly been greatly modified. It would be great if your publishers 
> consult
> with the necessary authority and send some books to my country. Plus, 
> you
> have also got India with a population of 1120 million (we are 
> neighboring
> countries and we've close ties). Your books are very very rare in India 
> too
> (nearly non-existent except for a shop in Mumbai, but there are many 
> copies
> of Wheel of Time books and Eddings - what's that??). So you're 
> neglecting a
> market of more than 1500 million people, well, consider that 300 
> million,
> because only 30-40% ppl of this region is educated.
>

The problem is each nation determines its own import/export policy.  
Bangladesh, being a former British Colony, is covered under my contract 
with HarperCollins UK, and is an "export" country, but that doesn't mean 
the books are going to get there easily.  I'll send along a note to my 
British publisher, but it may be that the reason the Robert Jordan 
books, for example, are around is that his publisher may be taking a 
deeper discount or even selling them at a loss (as a market strategy) or 
have a better distribution set up in that market.

Even though the Indian sub-continent market is huge, it's also as you 
observed very poor economically.  For those getting by on pennies a day, 
books are indeed a luxury.  Still, as I said, I'll forward this along to 
my editor in the UK and see what, if anything, can be done.

>>
Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 13:19:33 -0800
Subject: Re: 
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
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On Monday, February 11, 2002, at 10:39 AM, Monwar wrote:

> One more question Mr. Feist,
>
> I was just browsing through old Google records and noticed that there 
> was a
> lot of outcry about the whole Mara-Kevin affair after Mistress was
> published. Why did you trashed Kevin in Servant and brought him back in
> Mistress? Who took that decision of removing Kevin, you, or JW? The 
> events
> seem a bit too unnatural too. Wouldn't it  have been better if you kept
> Kevin?

Well, originally Kevin wasn't coming back.  The bittersweet aspect of 
Mara's getting everything she wished for to protect her house, but at 
the price of love, was a plot device Janny and I agreed upon when we 
finished Servant.  But at the end of Mistress, Janny and our editors 
(mostly Jane Johnson at HarperCollins UK, but also Pat LoBrutto at 
Doubleday) overulled me and we brought Kevin back.

>
> Also, there are some later discrepancies, like talking about the Omechan
> like it is a great house instead of a clan - but those are very trivial.
> It's a pity that you won't write more Empire novels. I really enjoyed 
> the
> series. Though I am new to English literarture, the time you took in
> character developmrnt in the  Empire trilogy, specially Arakasi and 
> Lujan -
> was great. If you had implemented the same thing in the Serpentwar 
> saga, I
> believe it would have been a much better series.
>

Continuity errors and typos abound since publishers in the US got rid of 
their in-house copy editors.  I've had books (Prince of the Blood being 
the worst example) where three different people copy-edited, and there 
is no consistency in the queries to the author, changes in punctuation, 
etc.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 13:20:59 -0800
Subject: Re: Wildfires
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
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On Monday, February 11, 2002, at 12:06 PM, dreamfish@space.com wrote:

>
>
>  Hey Ray,
>   You and yours ok down there in SD?? Hope the fires
> are well away from your home. Looks really nasty!
>
>

Oh, yes, everything's fine.  Fallbrook is over 25 miles away from here.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 13:38:55 -0800
Subject: Re: Sex and culture
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 13:38:55 -0800
Subject: Re: Sex and culture
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Monday, February 11, 2002, at 12:33 PM, Monwar wrote:

> ...Here it is.
>
> I have a very bad habbit of 'spying' people (and yes I'm quite adept at
> that). Like I take your name and use Google Groups search or Verisign or
> WhoWhere and many other sources and in a day, I know a lot more about 
> you
> than you want me to know.
>
> I was reading some old posts on Ray, and the ng people were discussing 
> about
> a Midkemia D20. I knew that REF had divorced with Kathlyn Starbuck. And 
> as I
> said, I'm a guy from a very, very different culture than you're and I 
> enjoy
> myself in knowing about other cultures. That's why I enjoyed the 'Empire
> Trilogy' so much.
>
> This part of one of REF's post caught my eyes :
>
> "My kids are healthy, my
> house is warm, got a call today from one of the young ladies I'm dating,
> my book with Joel is turned in."
>
> The following comments and questions are not all meant to be offensive.
> These questions are just out of curiosity and if you feel uneasy or
> offended, just don't answer.
>
> Isn't it considered immoral (sorry, I don't know the proper English 
> word) in
> your country to date or have sex with other women after having children 
> from
> another woman and still continuing to have sex or dating with other 
> woman
> younger than you?

No.   In our culture, it's not unusual to remarry after divorce.  A 
friend of mine is now in his 3rd marriage.   Which means that to get 
married a second (or later) time, one must date.  In the US, "dating" 
can cover a range of relationships, from very casual, with a person with 
whom you are not intimate, to an exclusive, not-quite-engaged but you 
are sleeping together.

A couple of the women I see are also divorced, and also have children, 
so this isn't just limited to men.

As for dating women "younger" than me, that's almost a "norm" in this 
culture.  Younger women are often attracted to older, successful men.  
In the American culture, I'm at "the top of the food chain," i.e. I'm a 
very successful middle aged man, which means my pool of potential dating 
partners range from their 20s to their 50s.  Most of the women I meet 
are much younger than I am, and the few I've meet closer to my age just 
haven't struck sparks.  It's ironic but the best relationship I have 
currently is with the youngest woman I'm dating.  We're very close 
friends and enjoy each other's company very much.


>
> Of course I know that 90% (?!) of American teenagers lose their 
> 'virginity'
> (Isn't this the word?) before 18, which is quite unthinkable in my 
> culture,
> but what is the basis of all this? Do you think this is necessary? This
> 'exposure' to bodily needs? Why isn't it considered offensive? Doesn't 
> it
> create social problems? Mr. Feist, why are you still dating with young
> women, just for physical needs or to meet any other needs, namely 'for 
> (the
> sake of) love' [foolish question]? I know my language is vague because I
> still have not got the proficiency to express myself clearly in 
> English, and
> as you note, my language is very stiff.

Of course it creates social problems.  Youthful sexual experience isn't, 
in and of itself, necessarily a bad thing.  It can be a VERY bad thing 
when it's confused by ignorance and/or the kids involved don't have the 
emotional maturity to deal with the consequences.  I've known women who 
were sexually active as young as eleven years of age, and I've known 
women who were virgins until their 20s.  American is a hugh nation of 
265 million people, and our regional cultures have major variations in 
them; kids raised in the "Bible Belt," i.e. that area of the South and 
Midwest that's predominantly fundamental Baptist will have a very 
different world view than kids raised in Spanish Harlem in New York, San 
Francisco, or suburban Chicago, for example.  It's very difficult to 
generalize.

As for my personal choices, they are not open to debate.  But I will say 
that while some of the women I date are young in comparison to me, they 
are adults by the standards and traditions of our culture.  Keep in mind 
that you live in a predominately Islamic nation, in a region which has 
(historically) had a far more conservative view of the role of women in 
society than you'll find in US.  It's ironic to note that Pakistan and 
India have both had women leading their nations at times, yet the roles 
of women in both those nations is often relegated to second class.  
India, however, depending on region, has a far different view of the 
issue of sex and sexuality than even your nation or mine.
>
> I needed to know this. Why is it not considered offensive in your 
> culture?
> Does this exist in European and trans-Tasman culture (Australia and New
> Zealand) also? Then why doesn't it exist in Asian cultures? Is there a 
> much
> stronger influence of 'religion' in Asian cultures, or just 'tradition'
> plays a part? Isn't an woman considered 'used' (very sorry for wrong 
> use of
> the word) when she has had sex with another person before marriage to 
> her
> current husband? The same for man too, does it not happen?

It's different because it's different.  Fashion, language, food, 
religion, philosophy, etc. are all different from place to play.  Asking 
why is like asking why to tigers have stripes and leopards have spots.  
They just do.

As for the bit about being "used," virginity played a significant role 
historically in all cultures, i.e. if a woman was a virgin when she 
married, her husband had every reason to suspect the child was his.  
(Not always true, it turns out, but you see why people felt this was 
important).  In the last fifty years, around the world, this has change, 
for many reasons, from technology (the birth control pill) to morality 
(the "Sexual Revolution" of the 1960s and on).
>
> The big question is, do you think it is harmful for a society or useful 
> for
> it? I have noticed in newsgroups that the US govt is working very hard 
> to
> promote family values among young men/women and is spending millions 
> for sex
> education. So, is this having a bad affect?
>

Not having sex education is a problem, IMHO.  "Family values" is a straw 
man, IMHO, as you must start the discussion by asking, "Whose family?"  
I love my kids.  They come first in my life. So in that sense, I have 
family values.  Do I believe in a lot of the things people who claim 
"Family Values" believe?  Almost certainly not.

> And does your religion allows it? I mean Christianity and Judaism (I 
> don't
> know if Mr. Feist is jew or Christian). Or has it just stemmed from 
> social
> 'tradition'? Is it happening for Centuries in the Western culture, or 
> just
> for years in the 'New World'?

You can't separate religion from society in terms of 
political/historical influence, so don't try.  The Christian 
establishment in the US has been very powerful in its political 
influence since the founding of the Republic.
>
> So these are my questions. I am not at all conservative, I am just 
> trying to
> understand your society. Who said Tsurananni was a strange culture, you
> Americans are also quite strange in many ways. My interest in this topic
> grew after a sister (cousin) of mine wrote in snail mail that in a town 
> of
> Connecticut (I forgot the name), 80% of teenage girls had childs before 
> 18
> and it was seen as a status symbol. Does it mean that interest for the
> 'family' in US is lessening, especially after the stronng devorce laws 
> ("my
> ex-wife getting more of my income than I do" - Feist)? Is marriage a 
> burden
> in your society?

I will guarantee you that statistic is wrong.  No town in any US city 
has an 80% teenage pregnancy rate.  Now a small town in Connecticut 
which has 80% of kids sexually active before the age of 20 (which means 
as Teenagers) I'll accept as possible.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Subject: Re: Sex and culture
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Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 23:31:25 +0100
From: Caranorn Aglaredhel <caranorn@cmdnet.lu>
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Subject: Re: Sex and culture
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

>
>
>>
>> I needed to know this. Why is it not considered offensive in your 
>> culture?
>> Does this exist in European and trans-Tasman culture (Australia and New
>> Zealand) also? Then why doesn't it exist in Asian cultures? Is there 
>> a much
>> stronger influence of 'religion' in Asian cultures, or just 'tradition'
>> plays a part? Isn't an woman considered 'used' (very sorry for wrong 
>> use of
>> the word) when she has had sex with another person before marriage to her
>> current husband? The same for man too, does it not happen?
>
>
> It's different because it's different.  Fashion, language, food, 
> religion, philosophy, etc. are all different from place to play.  
> Asking why is like asking why to tigers have stripes and leopards have 
> spots.  They just do.
>
> As for the bit about being "used," virginity played a significant role 
> historically in all cultures, i.e. if a woman was a virgin when she 
> married, her husband had every reason to suspect the child was his.  
> (Not always true, it turns out, but you see why people felt this was 
> important).  In the last fifty years, around the world, this has 
> change, for many reasons, from technology (the birth control pill) to 
> morality (the "Sexual Revolution" of the 1960s and on).


Ah but asking why is usually a good thing. In this case there are 
reasons for different rules to have develloped all over the world. 
Simply speaking, they were either the rules that allowed people to 
prosper, or they were the rules imposed by those who were already doing 
well. Actually, asking the question why tigers have stripes and leopards 
spots might be useful too, it might even find a logical answer. The 
question of why did different codes of ethics arise eventually leads to 
Anthropology and possibly Ethics, the one about tigers might lead to 
Biology (or just push Darwin on his way). Few questions are ever foolish 
or useless.

As to why exactly did rules about virginity appear, it might very well 
be an economical issue. Poor populations cannot feed excess children, 
and delaying the age of sexual activity is an easy way to limit 
population growth. This is of course an oversimplification, but that 
simple rule tends to work for most societies.

And that virginity played an important part in all cultures is of course 
not true, I would just have to dig up some of my college books to look 
up cases where sexuality was not a tabu at all, and therefore virginity 
not a factor in local ethics. I believe a few such cultures still exist, 
I would not be astonished if most of them were in Asia and the Pacific 
as well.

As to the changes, I get ever more convinced that in reality Western 
history does not portray a sexless society for long centuries and then a 
revolutionary change in the 20th century. It rather appears to be the 
contrary, that for centuries (the entire medieval period and much of the 
classic age before that), life was much loser then it is today. It is 
only with the Christian renewal of the renaissance, and largely the 
reappearance of heretic doctrines (no offense intended, but 
protestantism largely arose out of doctrines that were centuries old and 
had been stamped heretic on a number of occasions, lastly I myself am an 
atheist so don't care either way) that those moral codes seem to have 
changed. That does not mean that puritan ideals did not exist in the 
West before that, but they were followed by only a few people, who 
generally were powerless to impose their rules on others. What is 
certain is that some two hundred years ago, morals in most of Europe 
were as lose if not loser then today.

Of course all of that brings us back to generalities when in fact prior 
to the communication age regional diversity was much greater and 
therefore rules varied more then they do today.

In the end you cannot directly compare one civilisation to another, or 
rather you should not judge one by the other's viewpoint. Study the 
differences to better understand your neighbours and maybe improve your 
own society. Also, always remember that morals or ethics are not 
universal and certainly not eternal. They will not only change, but have 
to change regularly for humans to adapt to new situations.

Marc aka Caran...

P.S.: I am too tired and have been plagued with a constant tooth ache 
for days now, so that I cannot write even a simple letter as this. And 
to think I sent a letter to 4 local papers today for publishing, I 
wonder what I will find when I reread that piece with a clear mind.



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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Larry Siegel <larry@psihawk.com>
Subject: Ray's Words of Wisdom.....
In-Reply-To: <C0109C7A-1F37-11D6-9BD7-003065A8A644@bittersea.com>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 17:41:33 -0500
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Larry Siegel <larry@psihawk.com>
Subject: Ray's Words of Wisdom.....
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Ray...

I debated asking you this publicly... or privately....then figured I would
post it, and let you decide if you wished to respond privately or not...

I've often wondered.. and with the most recent postings, more so..
How you as a 'celebrity'  felt about your words.. not your books..
but your words... as in an interview, or things you post here, on-line
being kept on file... such as in archives and stuff....

I mean in a sense..my words... my postings end up getting kept in the
same way but not to the extent yours do... noone has a PsiHawk website
(well except me).... but you get my point....

What got me wondering... was thinking about your kids 15-20 years from
now, going back and reading archives... does that ever cross into your 
thoughts?

Sorry if it seems over-the-edge.... especially from me :)

And please... feel free to answer on list... privately.. or tell me... its not
something you wish to discuss....



Larry

My Homepage
http://www.psihawk.com

Raymond E. Feist FAQ
http://www.psihawk.com/feist



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Subject: Quite urgent
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*** EOOH ***
From: "MChaloner" <markchaloner@btinternet.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Quite urgent
Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 22:57:48 -0000
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

(Damn, but I didn't want to ask this).

Can I ask someone - anyone? - When Mr R writes about 'there are many
different kinds of love' - I know that it's Martin saying it Arutha and
they're on a ship  - but is it Silverthorn and is it near the beginning
or the end of the book.

I need help urgent! <grins>


Mark ;-)
markchaloner@btinternet.com 



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Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 01:19:26 +0200
From: Ziad El-Hajj <pilgrim@inco.com.lb>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: My foolish history :(
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Raymond Feist wrote:

> I realize that it's difficult to get my work in parts of the world (I've
> had similar stories told to me by people in Turkey and other parts of
> the Middle East and in non-Former English colonies Africa), and wish it
> was as easy to get books via Amazon through some local customs agencies
> as it is here in the US or in Europe.

Too true, unfortunately. I live in Lebanon (Middle-East), and while we get a
lot of foreign books, not many fantasy books reach our bookstores. So, it
took me 9 years (yes, that is nine) to get all your books (well, I'm still
missing HE. I'll most probably arrange for the Legends series to be sent to
me when they're all out in paperbacks). I got the Riftwar in 2 years, then
had to wait 4 more for PotB, TKB and FT, then 3 more for the rest. Needless
to say, the wait was torture <G>
Though I had to admit, I don't regret it!

I'm finishing RoaDK now (it's one in the morning. I'll probably finish it
tonight <g>), and have "compiled" a looooong list of questions, but that'll
wait until I finish Shards. I will say one thing though: I *HATE* Voyager! I
thought getting the paperbacks would spare me the really obvious typos, but
it obviously didn't. RoaDK was a nightmare to read from this point, with
Calis becoming Calin, Erik becoming William (?!), and others I don't want to
remember (not to mention the Black Pear in KtA, though thankfully that was
corrected in TOTG). I know you have nothing to say in this matter, but I
just wish those printing houses could do something about these typos.
They're barely tolerable in first prints, but to see them linger and others
add up to them is infuriating.

Ah well, nothing can detract from the sheer pleasure of one of the greatest
"ripping yarns" ever!
More to come when I finish Shards...

Ziad



"I'm a gambler. I know things. I do tricks."



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From: jockel@optonline.net
Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 19:10:11 -0500
Subject: Re: Quite urgent
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He is explaining about All types of love. Love of country, duty, a person.
and it is while they are on their trip to sneak past the Moredell.

Pat Jockel
----- Original Message -----
From: "MChaloner" <markchaloner@btinternet.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Monday, February 11, 2002 5:57 PM
Subject: Quite urgent


> (Damn, but I didn't want to ask this).
>
> Can I ask someone - anyone? - When Mr R writes about 'there are many
> different kinds of love' - I know that it's Martin saying it Arutha and
> they're on a ship  - but is it Silverthorn and is it near the beginning
> or the end of the book.
>
> I need help urgent! <grins>
>
>
> Mark ;-)
> markchaloner@btinternet.com
>



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From: "Donna M. Jaggard" <donna@arwen.org>
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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 16:43:33 -0800
Subject: Re: Ray's Words of Wisdom.....
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Donna M. Jaggard" <donna@arwen.org>
Organization: arwen.org
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 16:43:33 -0800
Subject: Re: Ray's Words of Wisdom.....
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> I mean in a sense..my words... my postings end up getting kept in the
> same way but not to the extent yours do... noone has a PsiHawk website
> (well except me).... but you get my point....

On a slightly related note... A frightening site for any web designer who has 
learned a lot over the years: http://www.archive.org/

This place has archives of various sites I've done dating back to '95. Oh...my 
god. :)

Nothing is sacred. I like to tell beginners -- never say anything online that you 
wouldn't say in front of your mother. Guarunteed, the first time you do, she'll 
somehow read it. :)

-d



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From: "Western Rhythm" <info@westernrhythm.com>
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Subject: website
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 11:41:21 +0800
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Western Rhythm" <info@westernrhythm.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: website
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 11:41:21 +0800
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Is there a Website up and running for Mr Feist? (a new one) like
krondor or bittersea or something. I remember ages ago there was going
to be one made, did it eventuate?

cheers

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From: "Monwar" <monwar1982@yahoo.com>
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Subject: Re: My foolish history :(
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Monwar" <monwar1982@yahoo.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: My foolish history :(
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 02:52:44 +0600
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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> Now... Wheel of Time in pdf!! Gosh, that must be hard. Those are big books
> to read in pdf :-)

I read the Empire Trilogy (450+, 825 and 860 page books), why can't I read
the WoT? Also I have got paperbacks of some of the books.

The WoT pdfs are also very nice, specially the first one. Someone took pains
and formatted it very well with pix and maps.

And I forgot, a hundred thousand thanks to R M Askren for his maps and
Microsoft for Encarta World English dictionary. I can draw the whole of
Triagia and Novindus and Kelewan without even opening my eye, I followed the
maps so much. And need the meaning of feist, here it is (courtsy of Encarta,
took only a second) :

feist [fist] (plural feists) noun
small dog: a small dog (regional)
Also called fice

[Late 18th century. Variant of fist, a shortening of fisting cur, from
obsolete fisten "to break wind" (see fizzle ).]

Encarta® World English Dictionary © & (P) 1999 Microsoft Corporation. All
rights reserved. Developed for Microsoft by Bloomsbury Publishing Plc.

THANKS.



_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com



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Subject: Re: Ray's Words of Wisdom.....
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*** EOOH ***
From: "A Irving" <aignome@dingoblue.net.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Ray's Words of Wisdom.....
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 14:40:37 +1000
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I know the feeling, my current pages are not anything special, but the other
day a friend pointed me at a pic gallery for natalie portman. This was on
Fortunecity and was 3 years old, it was pretty crap, it was mine..
----- Original Message -----
From: Donna M. Jaggard <donna@arwen.org>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 10:43 AM
Subject: Re: Ray's Words of Wisdom.....


> > I mean in a sense..my words... my postings end up getting kept in the
> > same way but not to the extent yours do... noone has a PsiHawk website
> > (well except me).... but you get my point....
>
> On a slightly related note... A frightening site for any web designer who has
> learned a lot over the years: http://www.archive.org/
>
> This place has archives of various sites I've done dating back to '95. Oh...my
> god. :)
>
> Nothing is sacred. I like to tell beginners -- never say anything online that you
> wouldn't say in front of your mother. Guarunteed, the first time you do, she'll
> somehow read it. :)
>
> -d
>



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 21:25:07 -0800
Subject: Re: Ray's Words of Wisdom.....
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Monday, February 11, 2002, at 02:41 PM, Larry Siegel wrote:

> Ray...
>
> I debated asking you this publicly... or privately....then figured I 
> would
> post it, and let you decide if you wished to respond privately or not...
>
> I've often wondered.. and with the most recent postings, more so..
> How you as a 'celebrity'  felt about your words.. not your books..
> but your words... as in an interview, or things you post here, on-line
> being kept on file... such as in archives and stuff....
>
> I mean in a sense..my words... my postings end up getting kept in the
> same way but not to the extent yours do... noone has a PsiHawk website
> (well except me).... but you get my point....
>
> What got me wondering... was thinking about your kids 15-20 years from
> now, going back and reading archives... does that ever cross into your 
> thoughts?
>
> Sorry if it seems over-the-edge.... especially from me :)
>
> And please... feel free to answer on list... privately.. or tell me... 
> its not
> something you wish to discuss....
>
>

Look, I am by definition a public figure.  Not as public as Brittany 
Spears, but far more public than Joe The Guy Down At The Supermarket.  
Which means, by law and culture, I have less right to privacy than Joe, 
and more than Brittany.

Having things kept that I may run into 20 years from now is potentially 
embarrassing, but no more so than having an ex-girlfriend produce a love 
letter I wrote to her in 1964, if you catch my drift.

Everything SHOULD be viewed in context, i.e. what period the person 
speaking was in, what the values and mores were at the time, what was 
the significance of the statement.  No one remembers Nathan Hale for 
saying, "I like milk in my tea, not lemon, thank you."

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 21:26:09 -0800
Subject: Re: Quite urgent
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Monday, February 11, 2002, at 02:57 PM, MChaloner wrote:

> (Damn, but I didn't want to ask this).
>
> Can I ask someone - anyone? - When Mr R writes about 'there are many
> different kinds of love' - I know that it's Martin saying it Arutha and
> they're on a ship  - but is it Silverthorn and is it near the beginning
> or the end of the book.
>
> I need help urgent! <grins>
>
>
> Mark ;-)
> markchaloner@btinternet.com
>
>
>
>

I think that's in the opening chapter, isn't it, when they're talking 
about Arutha's feelings for Anita.  I claim the potential of being wrong 
because I wrote the damn thing nearly 20 years ago and some of you have 
read it a lot more recently. <g>

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
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Subject: Re: Quite urgent
In-Reply-To: <000001c1b34f$903ade90$8c9d01d5@amecmchaloner>
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Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 17:01:24 +1000 (GMT+1000)
From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Quite urgent
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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a Ship?

Magician?

> (Damn, but I didn't want to ask this).
>
> Can I ask someone - anyone? - When Mr R writes about 'there are many
> different kinds of love' - I know that it's Martin saying it Arutha and
> they're on a ship  - but is it Silverthorn and is it near the beginning
> or the end of the book.
>
> I need help urgent! <grins>
>
>
> Mark ;-)
> markchaloner@btinternet.com
>
>

Thanks
Darragh
-=-=
www.iamtheporkfireman.com
[Email]: s356179@student.uq.edu.au [ICQ]: 114283262



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Subject: Re: My foolish history :(
In-Reply-To: <002d01c1b33b$da2b55c0$2022becb@mufakker>
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From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
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At 02:05 AM 2/12/02 +0600, Monwar wrote:
>send, you can always do so. Better if you donate it to the British Council
>Library here in Dhaka. Just send your two books to your BC (in the UK, I
>mean the London HQ) and ask them to send those two copies to their branch in
>Dhaka or Chittagong.

Wow.  Now THAT'S cool.

Thank you for the suggestion Monwar, and you know what?  I've got
a /lot/ of books that my wife and I were trying to figure out what
to do with.  You just solved that problem.

Unfortunately for you, they are going to Kiev, Ukraine, though ;->
Sorry!

rip



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Subject: Do you ever? (was Re: Quite urgent)
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Hi Ray

Do you ever read your own work once it is published?
I mean.....as in years later?

After all I would have thought that as you enjoyed writing the
books so much in the first place you would perhaps want to re read them
as we, your fans do.

Regard Chris.


> I think that's in the opening chapter, isn't it, when they're talking
> about Arutha's feelings for Anita.  I claim the potential of being wrong
> because I wrote the damn thing nearly 20 years ago and some of you have
> read it a lot more recently. <g>
> 
> Best, R.E.F.
> 



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*** EOOH ***
From: "Monwar" <monwar1982@yahoo.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: OT OT OT How to Study
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 16:05:56 +0600
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I know this question should not be here, but I need a link to a site which
can tell me about different methods of studying and learning something
(Economics, Maths, Computer Science, Geography etc etc). I really want to
improve my study style and I hope the internet can help. Anyone know of any
such sites, which describe the methods of studying any subject.

If you can't give me any links, can any of you give me a pointer to where to
search? Newsgroups? Groups? Forums?


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com



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Subject: Re: OT OT OT How to Study
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From: Jonathan Homer <jchomer@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: OT OT OT How to Study
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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Hi all,

Jon here - just 'delurking' for one moment :-) About
study and 'revision' - keeping this short, I know it's
way off topic.

I used to teach a little and the only advice that I
can give is that study tends to be a case of 'what
works for you' - a classic example of revision
practice would be to write lots of summaries of
various topics, keep 'em short and sweet (catchy
bullet points work).

I know somebody who used to pop 'post it' notes
containing such summaries all over the house - 
fridges, mirrors you name it !

Jon

--- Monwar <monwar1982@yahoo.com> wrote:
> I know this question should not be here, but I need
> a link to a site which
> can tell me about different methods of studying and
> learning something
> (Economics, Maths, Computer Science, Geography etc
> etc). I really want to
> improve my study style and I hope the internet can
> help. Anyone know of any
> such sites, which describe the methods of studying
> any subject.
> 
> If you can't give me any links, can any of you give
> me a pointer to where to
> search? Newsgroups? Groups? Forums?
> 
> 
> _________________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Get your free @yahoo.com address at
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>  

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Everything you'll ever need on one web page
from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts
http://uk.my.yahoo.com



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In-reply-to: <3C68463D.2000800@cmdnet.lu> (message from Caranorn Aglaredhel on
	Mon, 11 Feb 2002 23:31:25 +0100)
Subject: Re: Sex and culture
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From: "Donal K. Fellows" <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Sex and culture
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 11:16:18 +0000
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Caranorn Aglaredhel <caranorn@cmdnet.lu>
> As to why exactly did rules about virginity appear, it might very well 
> be an economical issue. Poor populations cannot feed excess children, 
> and delaying the age of sexual activity is an easy way to limit 
> population growth. This is of course an oversimplification, but that 
> simple rule tends to work for most societies.

I think you'll find that's not the case, because you are forgetting to
factor in other things like comparatively high infant mortality rates
and the total lack of social security.  More children meant more hands
to work the land, more food, and more likelihood of being able to
survive into old age.  Current family sizes (if you include people who
died young) are historically very small...

The rules about virginity were more of an upper class type thing, and
women tended to marry young and have children young (the latter being
determined often by nutrition as much as anything else.)  Also, as I
understand it, there was more of a tendency for people to operate in
large extended families, and there was no particular reason not to as
people just weren't that mobile for the most part.

If I was a social historian, I could probably argue these points more
cogently...  :^)

Donal.
-- 
Donal K. Fellows, Department of Computer Science, University of Manchester, UK.
(work) fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk     Tel: +44-161-275-6137  (preferred email addr.)
(home) donal@ugglan.demon.co.uk  Tel: +44-1274-401017   Mobile: +44-7957-298955
http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~fellowsd/  (Don't quote my .sig; I've seen it before!)



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References: <000201c1b3ad$71c2f200$2022becb@mufakker>
Subject: Re: OT OT OT How to Study
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Nevyn" <alien4@wasp.net.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT OT OT How to Study
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 20:03:14 +0800
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Hi
I finished my schooling last year, and if you want some help Id be very
happy to assist you in your methods.

Nevyn
----- Original Message -----
From: "Monwar" <monwar1982@yahoo.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>; <FEISTFANS-L>
Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 6:05 PM
Subject: OT OT OT How to Study


> I know this question should not be here, but I need a link to a site which
> can tell me about different methods of studying and learning something
> (Economics, Maths, Computer Science, Geography etc etc). I really want to
> improve my study style and I hope the internet can help. Anyone know of any
> such sites, which describe the methods of studying any subject.
>
> If you can't give me any links, can any of you give me a pointer to where to
> search? Newsgroups? Groups? Forums?
>
>
> _________________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
>



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Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 14:35:47 +0100
From: Caranorn Aglaredhel <caranorn@cmdnet.lu>
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Horrible site, I wonder who was mad enough to archive that. I even found 
my unpublished website on there (3 versions under it's current url, I 
forgot the old one so didn't try that). What I notice though is that the 
archive seems to have corrupted all the formatting (some html appears as 
text, colors are wrong, frames are missing etc.). I did not try to 
navigate beyond the initial pages (seing how garbled everything was I'd 
expect problems with the links anyhow).

I certainly see little sense to that archiving (if it is even legal, 
which I doubt, especially as they essentially copied copyrighted 
material, I usually mark my material quite thorughly). Then again, it is 
not enough to bother me. If someone wants to take snapshots of the 
internet (that's what it appears to be), it's their problem.

Marc aka Caran...

P.S.: You should never say anything online you would not say outright in 
public, that's the way I have felt from the outset. That is also the 
reason why I always sign any email, forum etc. Even if I don't use my 
full name or a partial pseudo, I always know I can be backtraced.

Donna M. Jaggard wrote:

>>I mean in a sense..my words... my postings end up getting kept in the
>>same way but not to the extent yours do... noone has a PsiHawk website
>>(well except me).... but you get my point....
>>
>
>On a slightly related note... A frightening site for any web designer who has 
>learned a lot over the years: http://www.archive.org/
>
>This place has archives of various sites I've done dating back to '95. Oh...my 
>god. :)
>
>Nothing is sacred. I like to tell beginners -- never say anything online that you 
>wouldn't say in front of your mother. Guarunteed, the first time you do, she'll 
>somehow read it. :)
>
>-d
>
>
>





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Subject: Re: Sex and culture
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Donal, the opposit seems to be the case. From the medieval period till 
the industrial age, the nobility and upper bourgeoisie tended to marry 
young, while the lower classes delayed marriage. Mortality was indeed 
high, so were birth rates, but they were neverless controlled by 
delaying sexual activity. In the 16th century you could expect a peasant 
woman to be married around age 25 and then have 3-5 children before she 
was 35 (when fertility dropped). I say this from memory, but I can look 
it up, I don't recall whether this figure considered high death rates 
during child birth or not. During that same period, I seem to recall 
that roughly 1/4th the people died within one year of birth, 1/4th 
before they were 25 and most of the rest did not reach the age of 45 or 
thereabouts. I might have some factors confused right now as my last 
research into this topic was to determine teh demographics of my own 
fantasy world, so that I did not go about the research as scientifically 
as I might do otherwise.

My college specialisation was by the way History and Political Science, 
with a strong tendency towards working class issues. I also took some 
Anthropology classes (and regret I did not veer off course towards 
Archeology).

Marc aka Caran... with history I usually know what I talk about, though 
it's generally based on the "Western" model.

Donal K. Fellows wrote:

>Caranorn Aglaredhel <caranorn@cmdnet.lu>
>
>>As to why exactly did rules about virginity appear, it might very well 
>>be an economical issue. Poor populations cannot feed excess children, 
>>and delaying the age of sexual activity is an easy way to limit 
>>population growth. This is of course an oversimplification, but that 
>>simple rule tends to work for most societies.
>>
>
>I think you'll find that's not the case, because you are forgetting to
>factor in other things like comparatively high infant mortality rates
>and the total lack of social security.  More children meant more hands
>to work the land, more food, and more likelihood of being able to
>survive into old age.  Current family sizes (if you include people who
>died young) are historically very small...
>
>The rules about virginity were more of an upper class type thing, and
>women tended to marry young and have children young (the latter being
>determined often by nutrition as much as anything else.)  Also, as I
>understand it, there was more of a tendency for people to operate in
>large extended families, and there was no particular reason not to as
>people just weren't that mobile for the most part.
>
>If I was a social historian, I could probably argue these points more
>cogently...  :^)
>
>Donal.
>





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Subject: Re: Sex and culture
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 20:51:28 +0600
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Monwar" <monwar1982@yahoo.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Sex and culture
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 20:51:28 +0600
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> Keep in mind
> that you live in a predominately Islamic nation, in a region which has
> (historically) had a far more conservative view of the role of women in
> society than you'll find in US.  It's ironic to note that Pakistan and
> India have both had women leading their nations at times, yet the roles
> of women in both those nations is often relegated to second class.

Our current prime minister is a female, the previous one was a female and
the one before that was also a female. We have been ruled by female
head-of-the-states (politically) for 13+ years now (we gained independence
for 30 years only and of those, 13 years we were ruled by military
administrators, so there are more female PMs than male). And there is no end
in sight. The leaders of the two largest political parties are female and
you can expect that Bangladesh will be ruled by females for at least ten
more years. We have free education for females till 12th grade, though males
have to pay to study. There are preferences for women in every kind of job.
The army has been recruiting more and more females every year (infact, we
have as many female pilots in the army than male methinks). For an Islamic
country, we are quite liberal towards women, though there are exceptions.
That is not to say that Islam is strict toward women, that's very very
wrong. Well I won't go to that topic, but Islam never restricts women in any
way. The Middle Eastern (i.e., esp Saudi Arabian) TRADITION restricts woman,
not Islam. You would  be amazed to learn my countrymen's reaction towards
Saudi Arabia and its culture.

> India, however, depending on region, has a far different view of the
> issue of sex and sexuality than even your nation or mine.

Of course, 'Kama Sutra' is a kind of religious book AFAIK. Bangladesh has
also the second largest Hindu population in the world (18.5 million).  I
have read the Ramayana and the Mahabharat (Both these books are a VERY good
exmaple of subcontinetal fantasy - no offense) and the Gita and though their
philosophy about sexuality differs from us, in practise, it is the same.
After all, our tradition is same and we had been the same people until
Mongols and Arabs came.

Last of all, our society is dictated more by tradition than religion. 65% of
people of Bangladesh is ignorant, and tradition is what dictates their
lifestyle. Religion plays a large part, but not more than tradition. Though
it is changing very rapidly in the last 12 years, people still cling to it
strongly.

Thanks for your answer.



_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com



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From: The Random Idiot <solsc@earthling.net>
Subject: Re: Sex and culture
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Been lurking for 2 years... some of you might recognise my e-mail 
address... anyway...

>I needed to know this. Why is it not considered offensive in your culture?
>Does this exist in European and trans-Tasman culture (Australia and New
>Zealand) also? Then why doesn't it exist in Asian cultures? Is there a much
>stronger influence of 'religion' in Asian cultures, or just 'tradition'
>plays a part? Isn't an woman considered 'used' (very sorry for wrong use of
>the word) when she has had sex with another person before marriage to her
>current husband? The same for man too, does it not happen?

Well, I am from Singapore, and we're probably the most open of all 
countries in Asia. It is impossible to generalize anything or any group of 
people because there are always exceptions. But I personally think culture 
has more to do with the "morality" than religion. But over here at least, 
re-marrying of divorcees is nothing that raises eyebrows, nor is dating 
women who are younger (although of course,
if the age gap is something like 20 years, that might trigger some of the 
conservatives to squak)

I think that considering women 'used' is more or less prevalent only in 
your part of the world. The Middle East and the Subcontinent are such a 
gigantic mish-mash of cultures and beliefs. Customs can vary radically from 
one village to another. For example, different groups of Muslims have 
different interpretations of the rule about modesty in women. By now most 
of us have been fed lots of CNN about Afghanistan and the Taliban and know 
what a burka is. That is one extreme, but for others, it simply means to 
wear a headscarf in public, and in Malaysia many teenage girls wear 
t-shirts, jeans and the headscarf. (the list members in Singapore, with all 
that controversy, this stuff is available in all the papers...)

I think it's all a matter of perspective. I'm sure some radical feminists 
in the States would be enraged by reading about your culture's customs 
regarding women, just as you would be shocked at the liberal views held in 
Western countries.

>The big question is, do you think it is harmful for a society or useful for
>it? I have noticed in newsgroups that the US govt is working very hard to
>promote family values among young men/women and is spending millions for sex
>education. So, is this having a bad affect?

Well, I don't think it's a good idea for the government to start dictating 
morality, but I'll leave this for people actually living there to comment.

>And does your religion allows it? I mean Christianity and Judaism (I don't
>know if Mr. Feist is jew or Christian). Or has it just stemmed from social
>'tradition'? Is it happening for Centuries in the Western culture, or just
>for years in the 'New World'?

I am a Christian, although admittedly I am not too regular in going to 
church. For the most part, I doubt it is against anything in the Bible. It 
depends on the sect, but mostly the Protestant Church is quite liberal.

>So these are my questions. I am not at all conservative, I am just trying to
>understand your society. Who said Tsurananni was a strange culture, you
>Americans are also quite strange in many ways.

For anyone who is experiencing a new culture, much of what goes on is 
pretty strange. For example, I don't understand the gravity of the Japanese 
tea ceremony. To me, it's just drinking tea! What's so formal and serious 
about that? But I think that to a Japanese, you just don't question why, 
it's just that it is, that's all.

>Does it mean that interest for the 'family' in US is lessening, especially 
>after the stronng devorce laws ("my ex-wife getting more of my income than 
>I do" - Feist)? Is marriage a burden in your society?

Here, in any divorce assets dispute, the judge tends to be biased to the 
female. That seems to be true in many countries. If marriage ever became a 
'burden', that would be a sad day indeed.

Just my 2 cents.



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Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 11:03:00 EST
Subject: Re: OT OT OT How to Study
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*** EOOH ***
From: Adam012882@cs.com
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 11:03:00 EST
Subject: Re: OT OT OT How to Study
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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easy, get out of the house and away from distractions.  A place with nice 
scenery helps. Like in a park. works for me.

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Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 08:20:48 -0800
Subject: Re: Do you ever? (was Re: Quite urgent)
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 08:20:48 -0800
Subject: Re: Do you ever? (was Re: Quite urgent)
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Tuesday, February 12, 2002, at 01:46 AM, Milamber wrote:

>
> Hi Ray
>
> Do you ever read your own work once it is published?
> I mean.....as in years later?
>

Never.  I have occasionally read a few passages here and there while I'm 
dealing with continuity stuff, but I'm the writer, not a reader, 
remember? <G>

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 08:24:27 -0800
Subject: Re: Sex and culture
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 08:24:27 -0800
Subject: Re: Sex and culture
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Tuesday, February 12, 2002, at 05:50 AM, Caranorn Aglaredhel wrote:

> Donal, the opposit seems to be the case. From the medieval period till 
> the industrial age, the nobility and upper bourgeoisie tended to marry 
> young, while the lower classes delayed marriage. Mortality was indeed 
> high, so were birth rates, but they were neverless controlled by 
> delaying sexual activity. In the 16th century you could expect a 
> peasant woman to be married around age 25 and then have 3-5 children 
> before she was 35 (when fertility dropped). I say this from memory, but 
> I can look it up, I don't recall whether this figure considered high 
> death rates during child birth or not. During that same period, I seem 
> to recall that roughly 1/4th the people died within one year of birth, 
> 1/4th before they were 25 and most of the rest did not reach the age of 
> 45 or thereabouts. I might have some factors confused right now as my 
> last research into this topic was to determine teh demographics of my 
> own fantasy world, so that I did not go about the research as 
> scientifically as I might do otherwise.
>
> My college specialisation was by the way History and Political Science, 
> with a strong tendency towards working class issues. I also took some 
> Anthropology classes (and regret I did not veer off course towards 
> Archeology).
>
> Marc aka Caran... with history I usually know what I talk about, though 
> it's generally based on the "Western" model.
>

You fail to say "where."

The 16th Century where?

Because what you're describing may be true in, for example, England in 
1550, but it probably wasn't true in the Ottoman Empire, or Central 
Africa, or near Canton or among the tribes of the Central America, etc.

The point of Monwar's question was dealing with American mores from a 
non-European, not Western point of view.

Best, R.E.F>
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 11:52:02 -0500
Subject: Re: Do you ever? (was Re: Quite urgent)
From: Bob Montgomery <dante@kingcon.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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  I'd wager you're exceedingly well-read, you devil... either that, or 
you've got the greatest organic talent for writing known to the English 
language <G>

BTW, feeling better? Hope you got over that nasty head cold! I think I 
got the same flu/head cold you did, as did about a dozen people I work 
with and my entire family. Just now getting over it myself, after being 
sick all last week. Healthy for the Super Bowl, though <G>

Did you manage to get any relaxing and enjoying in during the game? I 
thought it was one of the most exciting and fun SB's in ages; and I 
don't like either team that much. It was just nice to have a non-blow 
out game, as well as a halftime show worth watching (massive U2 fan, so 
I thought it was the best halftime show ever <G>).

Take care!

Bob

On Tuesday, February 12, 2002, at 11:20 AM, Raymond Feist wrote:

> Never.  I have occasionally read a few passages here and there while 
> I'm dealing with continuity stuff, but I'm the writer, not a reader, 
> remember? <G>
>
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
>



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*** EOOH ***
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Thought I said my position was from the western model. I have little 
knowledge of the Ottoman Empire (though it obviously ain't 0 as I'd know 
little about Europe if I ignored Turkey...). I certainly know nothing of 
Central Africa's history and maybe a bit more about the Far East.

And yes, I understand very well what Monwar was asking, but if we do ask 
a question as to why something is, we have to dig in the past and try to 
establish a model. What I generally try to establish is that the model 
we are often shown of western civilisation is really a fancy of a few 
overzealous people. Also that ethics change over time and that that is 
necessary for human survival. To stay static, or try and blindly turn 
back the clock would ultimately lead to failure (either of the people 
trying to do so, or of humanity as a whole). Then again, we might be 
steadily marching towards doom anyhow, so I don't worry too much anymore.

Oh and those notes were precisely on France in the 16th century, but 
there was very few difference throughout Europe at the time (local 
differences between urban and rural areas of course, but few differences 
between countries, with the obvious exception of the Nederlands).

Marc aka Caran...

Raymond Feist wrote:

>
> On Tuesday, February 12, 2002, at 05:50 AM, Caranorn Aglaredhel wrote:
>
>> Donal, the opposit seems to be the case. From the medieval period 
>> till the industrial age, the nobility and upper bourgeoisie tended to 
>> marry young, while the lower classes delayed marriage. Mortality was 
>> indeed high, so were birth rates, but they were neverless controlled 
>> by delaying sexual activity. In the 16th century you could expect a 
>> peasant woman to be married around age 25 and then have 3-5 children 
>> before she was 35 (when fertility dropped). I say this from memory, 
>> but I can look it up, I don't recall whether this figure considered 
>> high death rates during child birth or not. During that same period, 
>> I seem to recall that roughly 1/4th the people died within one year 
>> of birth, 1/4th before they were 25 and most of the rest did not 
>> reach the age of 45 or thereabouts. I might have some factors 
>> confused right now as my last research into this topic was to 
>> determine teh demographics of my own fantasy world, so that I did not 
>> go about the research as scientifically as I might do otherwise.
>>
>> My college specialisation was by the way History and Political 
>> Science, with a strong tendency towards working class issues. I also 
>> took some Anthropology classes (and regret I did not veer off course 
>> towards Archeology).
>>
>> Marc aka Caran... with history I usually know what I talk about, 
>> though it's generally based on the "Western" model.
>>
>
> You fail to say "where."
>
> The 16th Century where?
>
> Because what you're describing may be true in, for example, England in 
> 1550, but it probably wasn't true in the Ottoman Empire, or Central 
> Africa, or near Canton or among the tribes of the Central America, etc.
>
> The point of Monwar's question was dealing with American mores from a 
> non-European, not Western point of view.
>
> Best, R.E.F>
> ----
>
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
> stupidity.
>
>
>




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Subject: Re: OT OT OT How to Study
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Monwar" <monwar1982@yahoo.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT OT OT How to Study
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 22:47:23 +0600
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And when there are small children shouting like hell in front of the
park bench, then what do you do? And when the crows relieve themselves
in your head, in that case??

Of course, different people have different reading habits, and there
are no crows in America. It's a major problem in our country. Sit down
under a tree for half an hour, and you're all messed up. Time for a
bath!
>  ----- Original Message ----- 
>  From: Adam012882@cs.com 
>  To: FEISTFANS-L 
>  Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 10:03 PM
>  Subject: Re: OT OT OT How to Study
>
>
>  easy, get out of the house and away from distractions.  A place with
>  nice scenery helps. Like in a park. works for me.

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On Tue, 12 February 2002, "Monwar" wrote

' and there are no crows in America.'
 
 Er...yes there are. And an assortment of Crow-Cousins....Gackles,
 Ravens, plain ol' Blackbirds.
 
 Anita 

<pre>
<pre>___________________________________________________________________
Join the Space Program: Get FREE E-mail at http://www.space.com.</pre></pre>



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*** EOOH ***
From: Adam012882@cs.com
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 12:50:30 EST
Subject: Re: OT OT OT How to Study
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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In a message dated 2/12/02 9:36:58 AM Pacific Standard Time, 
monwar1982@yahoo.com writes:


> And when there are small children shouting like hell in front of the park 
> bench, then what do you do? And when the crows relieve themselves in your 
> head, in that case??
>  
> Of course, different people have different reading habits, and there are no 
> crows in America. It's a major problem in our country. Sit down under a 
> tree for half an hour, and you're all messed up. Time for a bath!
> 

The park was just an example. I live in New York, and thier arent that many 
crows, and we have a park e very couple of blocks not to mention central park 
which takes up a big chunck of Manhattan, wher you can easy find a quite 
spot. I found one. But its mine, all mine....muhahahahaha

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*** EOOH ***
From: Russell.S.Teeter@kp.org
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Cc: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT OT OT How to Study
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 09:41:27 -0800
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I beg to differ.   Unless you want to come to my house on some weekend and 
tell those 20 or so loud black birds that they aren't crows.  Although if 
you come over make sure you bring a bottle of Tequila to add to my 
collection.  :-)

Russell S. Teeter





>"Monwar" <monwar1982@yahoo.com>
>Sent by: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>02/12/2002 08:47 AM
>Please respond to FEISTFANS-L
>
> 
>	 To:     <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
>	 cc: 
>	 Subject:        Re: OT OT OT How to Study
> 
>Of course, different people have different reading habits, and ****there 
>are no crows in America.**** It's a major problem in our country. Sit down 
>under a >tree for half an hour, and you're all messed up. Time for a bath!
>>----- Original Message ----- 
>>From: Adam012882@cs.com 
>>To: FEISTFANS-L 
>>Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 10:03 PM
>>Subject: Re: OT OT OT How to Study
>>
>>easy, get out of the house and away from distractions.  A place with nice 
>>scenery helps. Like in a park. works for me. 

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From: "Julie Wootten" <wootten@xtra.co.nz>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT OT OT How to Study
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 08:29:30 +1300
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How to study depends on three things.
1 - Whether you want short term or long term knowledge - i.e. do you want
this information in your brain for a long time, or just long enough to pass
an exam.
2 - Whether the subject is (broadly) arts or sciences.
3 - The level of the knowledge acquired.

To pass lower undergraduate level sciences - especially things like
maths - is easy.  The key is repetition and old exams.  Get as many as
you can, 5 or 6 and do them.  Then re-do them.  Then do them again.
Forget reading the text, get worked examples.  Learn how to start
problems.  I've always found starting harder than finishing.  For
those really fiendish calculus-based problems where you have to prove
something, start at both ends.  A bit of the beginning, a bit at the
end, and work towards the middle.

Now, to UNDERSTAND is a whole different story.  For that, you need
associations, you need to think about the subject matter in a
different light, see what it connects to, what it affects.
Specifically, I have found that if I'm having trouble understanding a
concept, if I move on to a more difficult subject that assumes
knowledge of the basic concept I find it helps me understand the basic
concept I'd been having trouble with before.  It adds an extra frame
of reference.

Get a broad base of knowledge.  The more angles you can attack at, the
better.  For example, in my current veterinary studies, I've found that the
links between biochemistry, physiology, anatomy and histology  really
help you to understand just what makes an organ or tissue tick.

Again repetition is the key.  But for long term knowledge once you've
gained the understanding you need a different system.  As someone else
suggested, make bullet points.  Make sure you fully understand them.
After you've written them, review them in an hour.  Then review them
before you go to bed, and again the following morning.  Then at the
end of the week, and at the end of every week after that, until you
are ready to move onto the next level that assumes this knowledge.
Yes, this takes a lot of time and organisation.

Obviously, understanding is better than just passing exams - except when
you only have a day or two before the exam ;-)

All this is fine when you're just learning stuff that someone else has done
before you.  But if you want to know how to do original research... well,
I'm not very creative in that area, I'm afraid.  I can come up with original
solutions to physical problems (Things like you'd see in Scrapheap Challenge
or Junkyard Wars), and frequently have when I was an engineer working
far from civilisation and resources, but research... not my field at all.

I haven't touched at all on the arts because from the subjects you listed
there it didn't seem relevant.

Julie.

p.s.  This works for me.  No guarantees for anyone else.

> I know this question should not be here, but I need a link to a site which
> can tell me about different methods of studying and learning something
> (Economics, Maths, Computer Science, Geography etc etc). I really want to
> improve my study style and I hope the internet can help. Anyone know of any
> such sites, which describe the methods of studying any subject.
>
> If you can't give me any links, can any of you give me a pointer to where to
> search? Newsgroups? Groups? Forums?





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Subject: Re: Sex and culture
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 08:43:44 +1300
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Julie Wootten" <wootten@xtra.co.nz>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Sex and culture
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 08:43:44 +1300
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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About the role of women in Islam.  I found it interesting when I worked in
Indonesia that I had more problems in my job relating with americans than
the locals.  One american said to me "I don't like women on my rigs, I don't
think women should be on rigs".  I tried to win him over with competence,
efficiency, humour and personality, but some attitudes are ingrained deep.
Well, that and my personality is sometimes a wee bit too strong for some
people to stomach.

However, I think I had it easier with the locals because I was an ex-pat and
thus not within the culture.

And from the lurking Singaporean on our list that neglected to sign his
message:
> Well, I don't think it's a good idea for the government to start dictating
> morality, but I'll leave this for people actually living there to comment.

I found this vaguely amusing.  In Singapore you can be fined for
neglecting to flush a toilet.  If that's not a government dictating
morality ...

Interesting place, Singapore.  Lovely to find a country so clean and
safe.  But there's this disturbing undercurrent.  Some people seem
... well, scared.  I remember one visit I was doing the tourist thing,
and this woman was trying to sell me a package deal, and a local
businessman came up and told me that it was cheaper to do the things
individually.  He started harassing this woman, accusing her of trying
to cheat tourists, and threatening to report her.  You would not
believe how fast she backed down and begged the businessman not to
report her.

Julie.





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From: "Terri Lyn Layman" <terrilyn@ameritech.net>
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Subject: RE: Ray's Words of Wisdom.....
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From: "Terri Lyn Layman" <terrilyn@ameritech.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Ray's Words of Wisdom.....
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 17:27:41 -0500
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu



> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Caranorn Aglaredhel
> Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 8:36 AM
> To: FEISTFANS-L
> Subject: Re: Ray's Words of Wisdom.....
>
<snip>
>
> P.S.: You should never say anything online you would not say
> outright in
> public, that's the way I have felt from the outset. That is also the
> reason why I always sign any email, forum etc. Even if I don't use my
> full name or a partial pseudo, I always know I can be backtraced.

That's exactly what I told my hubby when he yelled at me for reading his
online journal.  I pretty much told him that if he didn't want anyone in the
galaxy upto and including his mother to read what he writes about me, and
anyone else, to keep the damn thing private and get one at Barnes n Nobels.

He still seems to not get it... but whatever.

-TerriLyn



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From: The Random Idiot <solsc@earthling.net>
Subject: Re: OT: Sex and culture
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Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 11:16:20 +0800
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: The Random Idiot <solsc@earthling.net>
Subject: Re: OT: Sex and culture
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>And from the lurking Singaporean on our list that neglected to sign his
>message:
> > Well, I don't think it's a good idea for the government to start dictating
> > morality, but I'll leave this for people actually living there to comment.
>
>I found this vaguely amusing.  In Singapore you can be fined for neglecting
>to
>flush a toilet.  If that's not a government dictating morality ...

Yes you hit it right on the head there. Mostly we complain about that 
tendency of the government but come election time, the truth is the PAP is 
really quite good as political parties go, corruption is almost 
non-existent (hey, you never know... *looks around suspiciously*), so like 
in last year's, they win the election before voting even starts via 
walkovers. Many Singaporeans have a very "kiasee" or "scared to die" 
attitute and treasure security and playing safe more than anything.

The campaigns (Anti-Spitting, Anti-Smoking and Speak Good English to name a 
few. No I'm not joking) do get on some people's nerves because they tend to 
be taken to extremes. The senior politicians, especially Lee Kuan Yew and 
Goh Chok Tong have a lot of respect and everything they say tends to be 
overblown by the media.

>Interesting place, Singapore.  Lovely to find a country so clean and safe.
>But
>there's this disturbing undercurrent.  Some people seem ... well, scared.  I
>remember one visit I was doing the tourist thing, and this woman was trying
>to
>sell me a package deal, and a local businessman came up and told me that it
>was cheaper to do the things individually.  He started harassing this woman,
>accusing her of trying to cheat tourists, and threatening to report her.
>You
>would not believe how fast she backed down and begged the businessman
>not to report her.

LOL... but the scary thing is... that's not a rare case. People seem to be 
scared of being "reported" to any authority. "Interesting" is a mild word 
to use.

----
The Random Idiot
who doesn't like signing his posts but obliges once in a while :)



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From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
References: <3a.21d8185a.299a96b4@cs.com> <000001c1b3e9$06a038c0$2022becb@mufakker>
Subject: Re: OT OT OT How to Study
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 23:14:15 -0600
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT OT OT How to Study
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 23:14:15 -0600
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In the eastern US alone we have two species of Crows: The American
Crow (Corvus brachyrhyncos) and the Fish Crow (Corvus ossifragus),
as well as two raven species, three jay species, and a magpie
species, all of which belong strictly to family Corvidae (the
Crows).

The western US has a third species of Crow: The Northwestern Crow
(Corvis caurinus), but lacks the fish crow of the eastern US.
However to compensate the West has a total of six species of jay,
two ravens, two magpies, and a nutcracker.

Now don't tell us we don't have crows.

-James

----- Original Message -----
>From: "Monwar" <monwar1982@yahoo.com>
>To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
>Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 10:47 AM
>Subject: Re: OT OT OT How to Study
>
>
>And when there are small children shouting like hell in front of the
>park bench, then what do you do? And when the crows relieve
>themselves in your head, in that case??
>
>Of course, different people have different reading habits, and there
>are no crows in America. It's a major problem in our country. Sit
>down under a tree for half an hour, and you're all messed up. Time
>for a bath!
>  ----- Original Message -----
>  From: Adam012882@cs.com
>  To: FEISTFANS-L
>  Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 10:03 PM
>  Subject: Re: OT OT OT How to Study
>
>
>  easy, get out of the house and away from distractions.  A place
>with nice scenery helps. Like in a park. works for me.
>
>

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Subject: Re: OT OT OT How to Study
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT OT OT How to Study
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 23:14:01 -0600
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You are mixing up families.  Corvidae are the Crows, you are
mentioning mostly members of Icteridae, the Blackbird family.  If
you want to get nitpicky a cousin would be two related species, or
if you are feeling liberal about relationships, two different
Genuses in a single family...by the time you get to families in most
taxonomy you really are talking about a fair amount of difference
(though it is far more pronounced in the invertebrates than the
vertebrates, but I won't get into the splitter/lumper argument
here).

-James

> On Tue, 12 February 2002, "Monwar" wrote ' and there are no crows
>in America.' Er...yes there are. And an assortment of
>Crow-Cousins....Gackles, Ravens, plain ol' Blackbirds. Anita
> ___________________________________________________________________
> Join the Space Program: Get FREE E-mail at http://www.space.com.
>
>



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Subject: Re: OT OT OT How to Study
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT OT OT How to Study
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 23:29:54 -0600
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If I may point out , that while Julie and Jonathan (as well as a few
others), have posted well thought out suggestions, I figured I would
post four serious thoughts on the issue.

1.  Method of Learning style.  Some people are visual, some are
audio, some are tactile, and most people are a combination.  Knowing
your own personal style is often the best way of helping yourself
learn more efficiently.

2.  Interest.  People don't learn when they are bored.  If you want
to learn something you have to make it interesting for yourself, the
more interesting you make (to yourself) it the better it will stick.

3.  My personal favorite: Interaction.  Now as a guy with some 100+
university hours of Math, Chemistry, Geography and Biology to my
credit, I can safely say that the easiest way for me is class
participation (even if it annoys other students).  I will pepper the
Prof with questions, comments (frequently described as off the
wall), and answer questions as often as possible.  Nothing seems to
help out a lot of students like interacting with either a group, the
class, or a project, to help understand the concepts.  This is of
course why we have labs more than anything.

4.  The last suggestion I have is "Don't limit yourself to just the
required texts".  Use other resourses at your disposal to broaden
your understanding of a concept.

And when in doubt: ASK FOR HELP!

-James



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Subject: Re: OT OT OT How to Study
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT OT OT How to Study
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 23:31:05 -0600
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Five words:
    Ear plugs and a hat.

----------------------------------
>
>And when there are small children shouting like hell in front of the
>park bench, then what do you do? And when the crows relieve
>themselves in your head, in that case??

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Subject: Re: OT OT OT How to Study
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Monwar" <monwar1982@yahoo.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT OT OT How to Study
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 12:11:45 +0600
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How do you know so much about crows? Are you a biologist? These scientific
names always dodged me, regardless of getting good marks in Bio. I never
read Bio after grade 10.

----- Original Message -----
From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 11:14 AM
Subject: Re: OT OT OT How to Study


> In the eastern US alone we have two species of Crows: The American
> Crow (Corvus brachyrhyncos) and the Fish Crow (Corvus ossifragus),
> as well as two raven species, three jay species, and a magpie
> species, all of which belong strictly to family Corvidae (the
> Crows).
>
> The western US has a third species of Crow: The Northwestern Crow
> (Corvis caurinus), but lacks the fish crow of the eastern US.
> However to compensate the West has a total of six species of jay,
> two ravens, two magpies, and a nutcracker.
>
> Now don't tell us we don't have crows.
>
> -James
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Monwar" <monwar1982@yahoo.com>
> To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 10:47 AM
> Subject: Re: OT OT OT How to Study
>
>
> And when there are small children shouting like hell in front of the
> park bench, then what do you do? And when the crows relieve
> themselves in your head, in that case??
>
> Of course, different people have different reading habits, and there
> are no crows in America. It's a major problem in our country. Sit
> down under a tree for half an hour, and you're all messed up. Time
> for a bath!
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: Adam012882@cs.com
>   To: FEISTFANS-L
>   Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 10:03 PM
>   Subject: Re: OT OT OT How to Study
>
>
>   easy, get out of the house and away from distractions.  A place
> with nice scenery helps. Like in a park. works for me.


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com



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Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 08:42:16 +0200
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Kenneth Jones <killkenny@thos.co.za>
Subject: Re: OT OT OT How to Study
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The correct name for someone that studies birds is an ornithologist. {:-)

Regards,
Kenneth Jones

At 12:11 PM 2/13/02 +0600, you wrote:
>How do you know so much about crows? Are you a biologist? These scientific
>names always dodged me, regardless of getting good marks in Bio. I never
>read Bio after grade 10.


=============================================
Kenneth Jones
The House of SYNERGY (THOS)
e-mail: killkenny@thos.co.za
URL: http://www.thos.co.za
tel: +27 11 259-9813
fax: +27 11 259-9803
=============================================

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From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT OT OT How to Study
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 00:56:52 -0600
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    Not necessarily true, many specialists are actually field
oriented workers who don't have a lick to do with the taxonomy of
Birds.  Ornithologists generally are more taxonomically or
physiologically oriented than other biologists who may also study
birds.
    Point in case: I have a friend who studies bird habitats in Long
Leaf pine habitat...but he is an Ecologist.   The same goes for
myself, I study Marine Tardigrades and by default I would become a
tardigradologist, but since my studies are ecological I technically
become a Meiobenthologist which means I include more than taxonomy
or physiology in my studies and am likely to include other taxa,
even though the focus is strictly on tardigrades.  And to be even
more exacting I become a Marine Meiobenthic Ecologist if you include
the exact name conferred upon my when I finish this degree coupled
with my study area.  Personal title (beyond the exact one conferred
by a degree) is generally a matter of personal taste since most
Biologists are qualified to call them several different things.
    Oh, and it is never wrong to call any biologist, nothing more
than a biologist.  (Though a bio-chemist might object!)

-James (just being nitpicky)

----- Original Message -----
From: "Kenneth Jones" <killkenny@thos.co.za>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 12:42 AM
Subject: Re: OT OT OT How to Study


> The correct name for someone that studies birds is an ornithologist. {:-)
>
> Regards,
> Kenneth Jones
>
> At 12:11 PM 2/13/02 +0600, you wrote:
> >How do you know so much about crows? Are you a biologist? These scientific
> >names always dodged me, regardless of getting good marks in Bio. I never
> >read Bio after grade 10.




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From: Kenneth Jones <killkenny@thos.co.za>
Subject: Re: OT OT OT How to Study
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 09:09:14 +0200
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Kenneth Jones <killkenny@thos.co.za>
Subject: Re: OT OT OT How to Study
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I bow to your superior wisdom. I am but a lowly web developer. {:-)

I guess I should stick to topics to which I have more than partial knowledge.

Regards,
Kenneth Jones


At 12:56 AM 2/13/02 -0600, you wrote:
>     Not necessarily true, many specialists are actually field
>oriented workers who don't have a lick to do with the taxonomy of
>Birds.  Ornithologists generally are more taxonomically or
>physiologically oriented than other biologists who may also study
>birds.
>     Point in case: I have a friend who studies bird habitats in Long
>Leaf pine habitat...but he is an Ecologist.   The same goes for
>myself, I study Marine Tardigrades and by default I would become a
>tardigradologist, but since my studies are ecological I technically
>become a Meiobenthologist which means I include more than taxonomy
>or physiology in my studies and am likely to include other taxa,
>even though the focus is strictly on tardigrades.  And to be even
>more exacting I become a Marine Meiobenthic Ecologist if you include
>the exact name conferred upon my when I finish this degree coupled
>with my study area.  Personal title (beyond the exact one conferred
>by a degree) is generally a matter of personal taste since most
>Biologists are qualified to call them several different things.
>     Oh, and it is never wrong to call any biologist, nothing more
>than a biologist.  (Though a bio-chemist might object!)
>
>-James (just being nitpicky)

=============================================
Kenneth Jones
The House of SYNERGY (THOS)
e-mail: killkenny@thos.co.za
URL: http://www.thos.co.za
tel: +27 11 259-9813
fax: +27 11 259-9803
=============================================

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Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 17:34:06 +1000 (GMT+1000)
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From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Sex and culture
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Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 17:34:06 +1000 (GMT+1000)
From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Sex and culture
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> > Donal, the opposit seems to be the case. From the medieval period till
> > the industrial age, the nobility and upper bourgeoisie tended to marry
> > young, while the lower classes delayed marriage. Mortality was indeed
> > high, so were birth rates, but they were neverless controlled by
> > delaying sexual activity. In the 16th century you could expect a
> > peasant woman to be married around age 25 and then have 3-5 children
> > before she was 35 (when fertility dropped). I say this from memory, but
> > I can look it up, I don't recall whether this figure considered high
> > death rates during child birth or not. During that same period, I seem
> > to recall that roughly 1/4th the people died within one year of birth,
> > 1/4th before they were 25 and most of the rest did not reach the age of
> > 45 or thereabouts. I might have some factors confused right now as my
> > last research into this topic was to determine teh demographics of my
> > own fantasy world, so that I did not go about the research as
> > scientifically as I might do otherwise.
> >
> > My college specialisation was by the way History and Political Science,
> > with a strong tendency towards working class issues. I also took some
> > Anthropology classes (and regret I did not veer off course towards
> > Archeology).
> >
> > Marc aka Caran... with history I usually know what I talk about, though
> > it's generally based on the "Western" model.
> >
>
> You fail to say "where."
>
> The 16th Century where?
>
> Because what you're describing may be true in, for example, England in
> 1550, but it probably wasn't true in the Ottoman Empire, or Central
> Africa, or near Canton or among the tribes of the Central America, etc.
>
> The point of Monwar's question was dealing with American mores from a
> non-European, not Western point of view.
>
> Best, R.E.F>

As one of my History professors always states at the start of a semester
of work... "Eurocentricity is a choice"

Thanks
Darragh
-=-=
www.iamtheporkfireman.com
[Email]: s356179@student.uq.edu.au [ICQ]: 114283262



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From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
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Subject: Re: Sex and culture
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> The rules about virginity were more of an upper class type thing, and
> women tended to marry young and have children young (the latter being
> determined often by nutrition as much as anything else.)  Also, as I
> understand it, there was more of a tendency for people to operate in
> large extended families, and there was no particular reason not to as
> people just weren't that mobile for the most part.
>
> If I was a social historian, I could probably argue these points more
> cogently...  :^)
> Donal.
> --

Just as an aside.

Several historians have suggested the 'Cult of Mary' during the dark /
middles ages was a Christian church conspiracy. Giving Mary such high
praise for her 'virginity' and purity, encouraged females to go without
becoming impure, which in turn woudl see a low yeild of children, and
therefore (as the Church hoped) larger portions of inheritance would pass
on to them.

Well, at least that is what the Church hoped for, in practise I doubt it
was an effective form of propanganda.


Thanks
Darragh
-=-=
www.iamtheporkfireman.com
[Email]: s356179@student.uq.edu.au [ICQ]: 114283262



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References: <3a.21d8185a.299a96b4@cs.com> <000001c1b3e9$06a038c0$2022becb@mufakker> <005901c1b44d$48c78000$d493aec7@oemcomputer> <5.1.0.14.2.20020212084011.009f5a20@elvandar.thos.co.za>
Subject: Re: OT OT OT How to Study
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Monwar" <monwar1982@yahoo.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT OT OT How to Study
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 15:19:36 +0600
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As I told you, I am still not that much proficient in English to know
this term :(
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: Kenneth Jones 
>To: FEISTFANS-L 
>Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 12:42 PM
>Subject: Re: OT OT OT How to Study
>
>
>The correct name for someone that studies birds is an ornithologist. {:-)
>
>Regards,
>Kenneth Jones
>
>At 12:11 PM 2/13/02 +0600, you wrote:
>
>  How do you know so much about crows? Are you a biologist? These scientific
>  names always dodged me, regardless of getting good marks in Bio. I never
>  read Bio after grade 10.
>
>
>=============================================
>Kenneth Jones
>The House of SYNERGY (THOS) 
>e-mail: killkenny@thos.co.za 
>URL: http://www.thos.co.za 
>tel: +27 11 259-9813 
>fax: +27 11 259-9803 
>=============================================

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Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 11:29:27 +0200
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Kenneth Jones <killkenny@thos.co.za>
Subject: Re: OT OT OT How to Study
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It seems neither am I {:-)

At 03:19 PM 2/13/02 +0600, you wrote:
>As I told you, I am still not that much proficient in English to know this 
>term :(
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <mailto:killkenny@thos.co.za>Kenneth Jones
>To: <mailto:FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>FEISTFANS-L
>Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 12:42 PM
>Subject: Re: OT OT OT How to Study
>
>The correct name for someone that studies birds is an ornithologist. {:-)
>
>Regards,
>Kenneth Jones
>
>At 12:11 PM 2/13/02 +0600, you wrote:
>>How do you know so much about crows? Are you a biologist? These scientific
>>names always dodged me, regardless of getting good marks in Bio. I never
>>read Bio after grade 10.
>=============================================
>Kenneth Jones
>The House of SYNERGY (THOS)
>e-mail: killkenny@thos.co.za
>URL: http://www.thos.co.za
>tel: +27 11 259-9813
>fax: +27 11 259-9803
>=============================================

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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 14:46:19 +0000
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Andrea J Chee <andrea@bloodaxe.com>
Subject: Re: OT OT OT How to Study
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In article <008201c1b44f$7880af40$d493aec7@oemcomputer>, James Young
<jajy@earthlink.net> writes
>If I may point out , that while Julie and Jonathan (as well as a few
>others), have posted well thought out suggestions, I figured I would
>post four serious thoughts on the issue.

I'd add:

1) Less is more. Scheduling too much study is just as bad as too little.
Two half-hour sessions of totally focused concentration in a day will be
more constructive than 5 hours of staring at the books bored out of your
skull.

2) Spread it out. It's much nicer to do a little bit each day over
several months than to end up spending all your time over the last few
weeks cramming, and you'll remember it better.

3) What you don't know by the night before, you'll never know. Other
than perhaps a handful of dates/equations/facts depending on subject
that need to be memorised and you want to refresh in your mind, you
shouldn't need to look at anything much the night before. Definitely no
all-nighters on the night before an exam.

4) Do something else. Schedule breaks to do things in. Try to choose an
activity on which you have to focus completely, so that you can't even
think of study while you do it, and ideally a physical activity. It
clears the dross out that's been building up in your brain so that you
return to study with a fresh mind. For me the answer was dressage - I
upped my training from once a week to twice or three times a week during
revision and exams, and never regretted taking that time out even as
other students were giving up their activities 'to study'. I certainly
seemed to suffer less stress than many of the other candidates.

5) Read around the subject. No subject exists in isolation. It's much
easier to remember things if you have a context in which to place them.

Enjoy it!

- ANDREA

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From: "Monwar" <monwar1982@yahoo.com>
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Subject: OT My study methods
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 22:56:40 +0600
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From: "Monwar" <monwar1982@yahoo.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: OT My study methods
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 22:56:40 +0600
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Thanks James, Julie, Jonathan and Andrea and all others for their
suggestions. Thanks for the great help guys (and gals)!

I really have a lot to write about the education system here in Bangladesh
and my personal choice of subject. But I don't have so much time and I'm
lazy. Better go to the Black Isle message boards and read about the new
Icewind Dale game :)

Suffice it to know that our native education system is quite different from
yours and is inherently inefficient, unrealistic and restrictive. But
that's not the topic. I want to tell you about my study method. Please let
me know your opinions.

I prefer to use the hand-eye coordination, reading and writing. Also I used
to read aloud and write when I was younger, which was to use my muscles, my
eyesight and my hearing to give my brain a precise design snapshot of what I
was reading at that point. It worked wonders, but as the syllabus broadened,
I have excluded the 'reading aloud' part. It hampers my understanding of
critical topics.

I take breaks. I usually play games. Games like Quake, Midtown Madness, FIFA
2002 and Unreal helps forget the stress a lot. Unfortunately, games like
Civ3 or Heroes3 tires your brain a bit but I like those kind of games. I
also read books, but it sometimes engrosses me so much that I continue to
spend hour after hour behind it (12+ hours at a stretch for Servant of the
Empire). That's the lack of self-control. I am lured easily by games and new
web news and such :( I don't watch TV or movies except news or Cricket
games. That bounds my imagination.

I am quite impatient, so I can not read for even an hour at a stretch. 30-55
mins max. But I can focus sharply and my understanding is quick. I study at
regular intervals, giving myself a lot of breaks. I study avg 4-5 hours a
day now that the final exam is nearing.

I like to set targets. But I shift very quickly. You would understand it
this way. I studied from 6.30 - 9:45 today (with breaks). In the last hour,
I studied :

1. Simple Logical Arithmetics and Karnaugh map (Computer Science)
2. Total layout method of calculating the price elasticity of demand and
calculations (Economics)
3. Bengali literarature (broad questions and answers + bit of Grammar)
4. Why is interest paid? Parts of goss interest. (Economics)
5. Flip flops and the structure of a CD-ROM (Computer Science - CS)
6. 5 maps of Bangladesh showing the location of the sugar mills and jute
mills. (Geography)

So you see, I JUMP, a lot. I don't know if this is helpful, but it keeps my
interest piqued.

I NEVER, NEVER and NEVER study when I am bored (except in very critical
tests). I study only when I find interest and  enjoy my study. I try to
think of my subject, be it the Sovereignty theory of Austin (Pol Sci) or a
dynamic array based counter program or simple Maths.

I like to use computer resources. Namely Encarta products + the internet.
The Internet is really helpful but I'm yet to find a site on this topic.

That's all from the top of my head. If I can remember more I'll let you
know.

Oh, you read all this and you should know about my performances (indirect
boasting ;) ). I stood 5th among 300000 (three hundred thousand) students in
SSC (Secondary School Certificate) in Dhaka Board in 2000 with mixed
(Sci+Arts) subjects with Humaities predominating. I was awarded by my
government and various other institutions with scholarships and
recommendations.

I have got my HSC (Higher Secondary Certificate) in May 2002 with
predominantly Sci subjects (Ec, Geo, CS) and 2 compulsories (Bengali and
English) and 1 humanities subject (Civics - it's kinda shortened political
sci and it's compulsory with a choice of History as the other!). I ranked
1st in my college in my group (mainly Hum and 628 students) this year with a
score of 808/1000.

But the subject choices are not all my own. The flaws in our education
system restricts me from taking much necessary subjects which I have to
study myself at home. But that's a long discussion and that's for another
time.

I hope I can do a good result in HSC also, but to compete with the world I
need to improve my study methods, specially to compete with the Americans.
So I'm trying, and you have been very helpful so far.


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From: wilsonm80@netscape.net (Maximilian Wilson)
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Sex and culture
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 12:42:12 -0500
From: wilsonm80@netscape.net (Maximilian Wilson)
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Sex and culture
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[Monwar]
>>And does your religion allows it? I mean Christianity and Judaism (I 
>>don't know if Mr. Feist is jew or Christian). Or has it just stemmed 
>>from social 'tradition'? Is it happening for Centuries in the Western 
>>culture, or just for years in the 'New World'?

[The Random Idiot]
>I am a Christian, although admittedly I am not too regular in going to 
>church. For the most part, I doubt it is against anything in the Bible. 
>It depends on the sect, but mostly the Protestant Church is quite liberal.

1. If we're talking about "it" being dating younger women, no, it's
not addressed in Jewish or Christian bibles. (I don't know about the
Talmud, though, or the apocryphal writings.) 2. Marrying divorced
women was tolerated in Hebrew society with certain restrictions (IIRC,
a man could not re-marry a woman he himself had divorced if she'd been
married again in the meantime). Christian writings suggest that Moses
authorized divorce but acknowledged it as a second-best solution:
"Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away
your wives: but from the beginning it was not so," suggesting that
divorce was not practiced in the time of Abraham, etc. 3. If we're
talking about "it" being "used women" and extra-marriage sexual
experience, it appears to have been quite prevalent in early Hebrew
history. From the fact that severe penalties were generally
decreed--can't remember offhand, but it could include execution--we
can infer that the practice was also frowned on, though Hebrew law
decreed many penalties that AFAIK were never enforced until at least
the first destruction of Jerusalem. Historically, the Christian
apostles were also vehemently opposed to the sexual mores (sp?) of the
surrounding cultures, and preached against "fornication" and
"adultery," two terms I'm told they used interchangeably.

On the other hand, the Christian religion of the United States is not
necessarily the Christianity that wrote the New Testament. As Monwar noted,
there's a difference between tradition and religion, and if you asked
U.S. Christians whether extra-marital sex is wrong you'd probably get
a whole range of answers from "all sex is wrong" to "as long as it's
someone you love it's okay." (I admit to a slight bias. I don't care what
someone believes if they're sincere--your prerogative--but I do get miffed
when movements claim to be successors to previous movements on the basis
of a superficial resemblance. If I knew more about the Wiccan claims,
I might feel the same way about their claim to be the medieval "witches"
Christianity put to the stake. Already I'm suspicious.)

[Monwar]
>>So these are my questions. I am not at all conservative, I am just
>>trying to understand your society. Who said Tsurananni was a strange
>>culture, you Americans are also quite strange in many ways.

ObFeist: The sexual mores of the Kingdom are definitely
Western. Chastity in Princess Carline is prized as a political asset,
which means that it's important culturally. It's not trivial to be a
virgin wife. However, as with the United States, individual positions
obviously vary and it's not uncommon for ladies (Jimmy and Dash's
mother) to take lovers, discreetly, partly because of the
political-marriage aspect. Again, however, she's discreet, indicating
that the practice is only tacitly accepted. Lower classes seem to care
less about the issue. None of this is a surprise, and it does reflect
my stereotypes about medieval European mores and possibly even the
actual medieval mores. :)

Wilson
-- 
I learned that it is the weak who are cruel
And that gentleness is only to be expected from the strong.
  --Leo Rosten



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From: "Monwar" <monwar1982@yahoo.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 00:34:33 +0600
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Julie,

You did not give me your tips regarding Arts subjects. Come on, send those.


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Subject: Re: not sex and culture, but religion :)
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From: "Monwar" <monwar1982@yahoo.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: not sex and culture, but religion :)
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 00:58:38 +0600
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Thanks for the nice and well-thought reply. Christianity seems to have
changed and taken many forms over the ages. One question, can any christian
claim that the religion they follow today was the one preached by Jesus
(pbuh)?

If you ask the same question to a muslim, you are certain to get the answer
'yes'. However, we also follow Jesus (pronounced Isu(s) in Arabic) as a very
important prophet (2nd after Muhammad (pbuh)) and the Bible is also a
religious book of the muslims. But most, repeat, most muslims have a strong
belief that it's not the same one sent by God. That's why, many muslims
beleive that today's christianity is not quite what it was meant to be. I
have found the claim somewhat true, but I'm still largely ignorant.
Enlighten me!!

This may be root to many problems and attacks, because there is clear
passage is the Quran saying thet Christians are the friends of muslims and
it is said there to make friends of them because they can be trusted and
they're 'Ahle Kitab' (of the book). After OBL's declaration of killing
Americans in 98, this question was raised by some moderate Imams (clerics)
in the southern part of Bangladesh but a few hardliners answered that those
who follow christianity now-a-days are not christians. So the Quranic word
was violated. However, these hardliners were far outnumbered by the
moderates and there was not many proecssions here is support of OBL as in
other Islamic countries. So, that fact IS important, has the Bible changed
too much?

I don't like to start this kind of religious topics as it creates too much
hot debate and the starter is often convicted as the troublemaker, but I do
think a lot about religion. It would take hours to express even the summary
of my opinions concerning religions, but the opposing factions of Islam
(moderates vs fundamentalists) you see today may have stemmed from the lack
of a central structure, like the papacy. But okay, I don't want to discuss
more about it unless I know about your opinion.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Maximilian Wilson" <wilsonm80@netscape.net>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 11:42 PM
Subject: Re: Sex and culture


> [Monwar]
> >>And does your religion allows it? I mean Christianity and Judaism (I
> >>don't know if Mr. Feist is jew or Christian). Or has it just stemmed
> >>from social 'tradition'? Is it happening for Centuries in the Western
> >>culture, or just for years in the 'New World'?
>
> [The Random Idiot]
> >I am a Christian, although admittedly I am not too regular in going to
> >church. For the most part, I doubt it is against anything in the Bible.
> >It depends on the sect, but mostly the Protestant Church is quite liberal.
>
> 1. If we're talking about "it" being dating younger women, no, it's not
> addressed in Jewish or Christian bibles. (I don't know about the Talmud,
> though, or the apocryphal writings.) 2. Marrying divorced women was
> tolerated in Hebrew society with certain restrictions (IIRC, a man could
> not re-marry a woman he himself had divorced if she'd been married again
> in the meantime). Christian writings suggest that Moses authorized divorce
> but acknowledged it as a second-best solution: "Moses because of the
>hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the
>beginning it was not so," suggesting that divorce was not practiced in the
> time of Abraham, etc. 3. If we're talking about "it" being "used women"
> and extra-marriage sexual experience, it appears to have been quite
> prevalent in early Hebrew history. From the fact that severe penalties
> were generally decreed--can't remember offhand, but it could include
> execution--we can infer that the practice was also frowned on, though
> Hebrew law decreed many penalties that AFAIK were never enforced until at
> least the first destruction of Jerusalem. Historically, the Christian
> apostles were also vehemently opposed to the sexual mores (sp?) of the
> surrounding cultures, and preached against "fornication" and "adultery,"
> two terms I'm told they used interchangeably.
>
> On the other hand, the Christian religion of the United States is not
> necessarily the Christianity that wrote the New Testament. As Monwar noted,
> there's a difference between tradition and religion, and if you asked
> U.S. Christians whether extra-marital sex is wrong you'd probably get
> a whole range of answers from "all sex is wrong" to "as long as it's
> someone you love it's okay." (I admit to a slight bias. I don't care what
> someone believes if they're sincere--your prerogative--but I do get miffed
> when movements claim to be successors to previous movements on the basis
> of a superficial resemblance. If I knew more about the Wiccan claims,
> I might feel the same way about their claim to be the medieval "witches"
> Christianity put to the stake. Already I'm suspicious.)
>
> [Monwar]
> >>So these are my questions. I am not at all conservative, I am just
>>trying to understand your society. Who said Tsurananni was a strange
>>culture, you Americans are also quite strange in many ways.
>
> ObFeist: The sexual mores of the Kingdom are definitely Western. Chastity
>in Princess Carline is prized as a political asset, which means that it's
> important culturally. It's not trivial to be a virgin wife. However, as
> with the United States, individual positions obviously vary and it's not
> uncommon for ladies (Jimmy and Dash's mother) to take lovers, discreetly,
> partly because of the political-marriage aspect. Again, however, she's
> discreet, indicating that the practice is only tacitly accepted. Lower
> classes seem to care less about the issue. None of this is a surprise,
> and it does reflect my stereotypes about medieval European mores and
> possibly even the actual medieval mores. :)
>
> Wilson
> --
> I learned that it is the weak who are cruel
> And that gentleness is only to be expected from the strong.
>   --Leo Rosten
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________________________
> Your favorite stores, helpful shopping tools and great gift ideas.
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From: "Monwar" <monwar1982@yahoo.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 01:01:04 +0600
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Clarification :

"One question, can any christian
claim that the religion they follow today was the one preached by Jesus
(pbuh)?

If you ask the same question to a muslim, you are certain to get the answer
'yes'."

This means if you ask a muslim if he believes he's following the exact same
religion preached by Muhammad (pbuh), he will answer positive.


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Subject: Pug 
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Ray,

I was woundering if pug plays a part in any of the up comming books, like 
Honoured Enemy Or Jimmy The Hand or Murder in LaMut.



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If you ask an LDS (Mormon) they will tell you that there religion is the 
"restored" church of Jesus Christ.

Of course, I am sure the Pope would say the Roman Catholic Church is the 
true church of Jesus.

Who is right? I don't think it is a question that can truly be answered by a 
scholar, it is a question that can only be answered by the individual 
seeking the "true" church, and the answer would only apply to him. So, both 
the Pope and President of the LDS church are right, even if they both feel 
the other is wrong.

Adieu

Jimmy

>From: "Monwar" <monwar1982@yahoo.com>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
>Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 01:01:04 +0600
>
>Clarification :
>
>"One question, can any christian
>claim that the religion they follow today was the one preached by Jesus
>(pbuh)?
>
>If you ask the same question to a muslim, you are certain to get the answer
>'yes'."
>
>This means if you ask a muslim if he believes he's following the exact same
>religion preached by Muhammad (pbuh), he will answer positive.
>
>
>_________________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
>


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From: Dun Xiahou <xiahoudun13@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Pug 
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Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 11:38:18 -0800 (PST)
From: Dun Xiahou <xiahoudun13@yahoo.com>
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Me too.  MORE PUG MORE PUG MORE PUG!!

- Xiahou Dun

--- Mic Olafson <tbird7775@hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> Ray,
> 
> I was woundering if pug plays a part in any of the
> up comming books, like 
> Honoured Enemy Or Jimmy The Hand or Murder in LaMut.
> 
> 
> 
>
_________________________________________________________________
> Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger:
> http://messenger.msn.com
> 


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On Thu, Feb 14, 2002 at 12:58:38AM +0600, Monwar wrote:
> Thanks for the nice and well-thought reply. Christianity seems to have
> changed and taken many forms over the ages. One question, can any christian
> claim that the religion they follow today was the one preached by Jesus
> (pbuh)?

Most of them will probably claim that.  Most of them are probably
wrong.  (Which ones are wrong and who, if any, are right is a question
that has literally started wars over the centuries.)


> 
> If you ask the same question to a muslim, you are certain to get the answer
> 'yes'. However, we also follow Jesus (pronounced Isu(s) in Arabic) as a very
> important prophet (2nd after Muhammad (pbuh)) and the Bible is also a
> religious book of the muslims. But most, repeat, most muslims have a strong
> belief that it's not the same one sent by God. That's why, many muslims
> beleive that today's christianity is not quite what it was meant to be. I
> have found the claim somewhat true, but I'm still largely ignorant.
> Enlighten me!!

Nobody knows exactly what christianity was meant to be so nobody knows
if it is practiced correctly or not.

> 
> This may be root to many problems and attacks, because there is clear
> passage is the Quran saying thet Christians are the friends of muslims and
> it is said there to make friends of them because they can be trusted and
> they're 'Ahle Kitab' (of the book). After OBL's declaration of killing
> Americans in 98, this question was raised by some moderate Imams (clerics)
> in the southern part of Bangladesh but a few hardliners answered that those
> who follow christianity now-a-days are not christians. So the Quranic word
> was violated. However, these hardliners were far outnumbered by the
> moderates and there was not many proecssions here is support of OBL as in
> other Islamic countries. So, that fact IS important, has the Bible changed
> too much?

The Bible has not changed noticeably since it was written.  The
interpretations of what is meant by what is written in the Bible has
changed several times.

Also note that the way christianity is practiced can vary quite a bit
between different parts of the world and did so even back when Muhammed
lived.  


It is also worth noting that all of the New Testament in the Bible was
written *after* Jesus had been crucified, in part several decades
later, so it is not clear that what it is written in the Bible that
Jesus said is what he actually did say.


> 
> I don't like to start this kind of religious topics as it creates too much
> hot debate and the starter is often convicted as the troublemaker, but I do
> think a lot about religion. It would take hours to express even the summary
> of my opinions concerning religions, but the opposing factions of Islam
> (moderates vs fundamentalists) you see today may have stemmed from the lack
> of a central structure, like the papacy. But okay, I don't want to discuss
> more about it unless I know about your opinion.

Christianity has probably at least as many factions as Islam and has
had it basically ever since the beginning so a central structure is not
proof against that.

> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Maximilian Wilson" <wilsonm80@netscape.net>
> To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 11:42 PM
> Subject: Re: Sex and culture
> 
> 
> > [Monwar]
> > >>And does your religion allows it? I mean Christianity and Judaism (I
> > >>don't know if Mr. Feist is jew or Christian). Or has it just stemmed
> > >>from social 'tradition'? Is it happening for Centuries in the Western
> > >>culture, or just for years in the 'New World'?
> >
> > [The Random Idiot]
> > >I am a Christian, although admittedly I am not too regular in going to
> > >church. For the most part, I doubt it is against anything in the Bible.
> > >It depends on the sect, but mostly the Protestant Church is quite
> liberal.
> >
> > 1. If we're talking about "it" being dating younger women, no, it's not
> > addressed in Jewish or Christian bibles. (I don't know about the Talmud,
> > though, or the apocryphal writings.) 2. Marrying divorced women was
> > tolerated in Hebrew society with certain restrictions (IIRC, a man could
> > not re-marry a woman he himself had divorced if she'd been married again
> > in the meantime). Christian writings suggest that Moses authorized divorce
> > but acknowledged it as a second-best solution: "Moses because of the
> hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the
> beginning it was not so," suggesting that divorce was not practiced in the
> > time of Abraham, etc. 3. If we're talking about "it" being "used women"
> > and extra-marriage sexual experience, it appears to have been quite
> > prevalent in early Hebrew history. From the fact that severe penalties
> > were generally decreed--can't remember offhand, but it could include
> > execution--we can infer that the practice was also frowned on, though
> > Hebrew law decreed many penalties that AFAIK were never enforced until at
> > least the first destruction of Jerusalem. Historically, the Christian
> > apostles were also vehemently opposed to the sexual mores (sp?) of the
> > surrounding cultures, and preached against "fornication" and "adultery,"
> > two terms I'm told they used interchangeably.
> >
> > On the other hand, the Christian religion of the United States is not
> > necessarily the Christianity that wrote the New Testament. As Monwar
> noted,
> > there's a difference between tradition and religion, and if you asked
> > U.S. Christians whether extra-marital sex is wrong you'd probably get
> > a whole range of answers from "all sex is wrong" to "as long as it's
> > someone you love it's okay." (I admit to a slight bias. I don't care what
> > someone believes if they're sincere--your prerogative--but I do get miffed
> > when movements claim to be successors to previous movements on the basis
> > of a superficial resemblance. If I knew more about the Wiccan claims,
> > I might feel the same way about their claim to be the medieval "witches"
> > Christianity put to the stake. Already I'm suspicious.)
> >
> > [Monwar]
> > >>So these are my questions. I am not at all conservative, I am just
> >>trying to understand your society. Who said Tsurananni was a strange
> >>culture, you Americans are also quite strange in many ways.
> >
> > ObFeist: The sexual mores of the Kingdom are definitely Western. Chastity
> in Princess Carline is prized as a political asset, which means that it's
> > important culturally. It's not trivial to be a virgin wife. However, as
> > with the United States, individual positions obviously vary and it's not
> > uncommon for ladies (Jimmy and Dash's mother) to take lovers, discreetly,
> > partly because of the political-marriage aspect. Again, however, she's
> > discreet, indicating that the practice is only tacitly accepted. Lower
> > classes seem to care less about the issue. None of this is a surprise,
> > and it does reflect my stereotypes about medieval European mores and
> > possibly even the actual medieval mores. :)
> >
> > Wilson

-- 
<Insert your favourite quote here.>
Erik Trulsson
ertr1013@student.uu.se



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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: 
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 14:41:50 -0600
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    I will answer more in depth to Monwar in private, but this as my
only comment on the subject in public is that Jesus was a Jew, not a
Christian.  Christian doctrine was mostly formulated based on the
writings on those who were with him and evaluated in Nicene in the
4th Century.  There were re-evaluations again in several other eras,
but the basis for all of modern theology pretty much can be summed
up in what was discussed in that meeting.  By the same token,
Muhammad himself was not a Muslim because the religion followed
mostly after his own time had passed.  This is a point where both
groups are likely to point out that yes they follow the teachings,
but neither can unequivocally say that they follow the same path as
the first.

-James

> Clarification :
>
> "One question, can any christian
> claim that the religion they follow today was the one preached by Jesus
> (pbuh)?
>
> If you ask the same question to a muslim, you are certain to get the answer
> 'yes'."
>
> This means if you ask a muslim if he believes he's following the exact same
> religion preached by Muhammad (pbuh), he will answer positive.



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Subject: Re: Pug 
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*** EOOH ***
From: Valheru22@aol.com
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 15:53:04 EST
Subject: Re: Pug 
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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In a message dated 2/13/2002 11:52:59 AM Pacific Standard Time, 
xiahoudun13@yahoo.com writes:


> Me too.  MORE PUG MORE PUG MORE PUG!!
> 
> - Xiahou Dun
> 

YEA PUG IS THE BEST...well next to Tomas HE IS THE BEST!!

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Makes perfect sense, Christ can't be a christian because christians are 
followers of Christ (as the savior?). Can't follow yourself. Same thing goes 
for Muhammad.

Adieu

Jimmy


>From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
>Subject: Re:
>Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 14:41:50 -0600
>
>     I will answer more in depth to Monwar in private, but this as my
>only comment on the subject in public is that Jesus was a Jew, not a
>Christian.  Christian doctrine was mostly formulated based on the
>writings on those who were with him and evaluated in Nicene in the
>4th Century.  There were re-evaluations again in several other eras,
>but the basis for all of modern theology pretty much can be summed
>up in what was discussed in that meeting.  By the same token,
>Muhammad himself was not a Muslim because the religion followed
>mostly after his own time had passed.  This is a point where both
>groups are likely to point out that yes they follow the teachings,
>but neither can unequivocally say that they follow the same path as
>the first.
>
>-James
>
> > Clarification :
> >
> > "One question, can any christian
> > claim that the religion they follow today was the one preached by
>Jesus
> > (pbuh)?
> >
> > If you ask the same question to a muslim, you are certain to get
>the answer
> > 'yes'."
> >
> > This means if you ask a muslim if he believes he's following the
>exact same
> > religion preached by Muhammad (pbuh), he will answer positive.
>


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.



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yep Pug rules



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> I don't like to start this kind of religious topics as it creates too
> much hot debate and the starter is often convicted as the
> troublemaker, but I do think a lot about religion. It would take hours

Not to mention that such discussions are explicitly mentioned in the 
FAQ for this listserve as being off-limits. In the past there have 
been some lengthy, flaming religious discussions -- frequently people 
step on each other's toes (sometimes intentionally, sometime not).

I'd be happy to give you my personal answers to your questions off-
list, if you want to email me directly (and this goes for everyone on 
the list). I won't post them here, though, in respect of the house 
rules on the subject.

I am a Christian, who lives in the US, so that gives you an idea of 
the background my opinions are going to come from.
-----
  "I dislike being wrong, and having to admit it publicly later. It's
  embarrassing, humiliating, and unnecessary. It would have been just
  as easy, and much more pleasant, to have been right in the first place."
    - Jack Richard, former Editor of Boardwatch Magazine



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Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 14:22:16 -0800
Subject: Re: Pug 
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 14:22:16 -0800
Subject: Re: Pug 
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Wednesday, February 13, 2002, at 11:21 AM, Mic Olafson wrote:

>
>
> Ray,
>
> I was woundering if pug plays a part in any of the up comming books, 
> like Honoured Enemy Or Jimmy The Hand or Murder in LaMut.
>

No.

But he will show up during the Conclave of Shadows, in a minor role.  
You'll finally meet his two sons, Magnus and Caleb.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Subject: Re: Pug 
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*** EOOH ***
From: Valheru22@aol.com
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 17:46:31 EST
Subject: Re: Pug 
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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In a message dated 2/13/2002 2:39:22 PM Pacific Standard Time, 
raymond@bittersea.com writes:


> No.
> 
> But he will show up during the Conclave of Shadows, in a minor role.  
> You'll finally meet his two sons, Magnus and Caleb.
> 
> Best, R.E.F.
> 

That'll be cool though!
-Chance

Ps. WIll we see Tomas?

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From: "Julie Wootten" <wootten@xtra.co.nz>
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References: <000201c1b3ad$71c2f200$2022becb@mufakker> <007701c1b3fb$9dcb63c0$e7e436d2@shaelynn> <008201c1b44f$7880af40$d493aec7@oemcomputer> <Rn56E7F7wna8Ewps@bloodaxe.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: OT OT OT How to Study
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 10:56:21 +1300
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Julie Wootten" <wootten@xtra.co.nz>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT OT OT How to Study
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 10:56:21 +1300
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From: "Andrea J Chee" <andrea@bloodaxe.com>
> 3) What you don't know by the night before, you'll never know. Other
> than perhaps a handful of dates/equations/facts depending on subject
> that need to be memorised and you want to refresh in your mind, you
> shouldn't need to look at anything much the night before. Definitely no
> all-nighters on the night before an exam.

This I partly agree on.  No all-nighters.  I have discovered that sleep
is essential to learning and memory.  When I was working I suffered a
great deal of sleep deprivation and did not keep regular hours at all.
I found I could barely remember what I did the previous day, let alone
remember facts.  As soon as I started keeping regular hours (i.e. while
on holiday) the problem went away.  So, I always make sure I get a good
nights sleep the day before an exam.  However, for me it is never too late
to
stuff short-term info into my brain, and the morning (or hours) before an
exam
is the perfect time for me.  I stop when I get that "Brain overloaded!"
message coming through loud and clear, and go and find some friends to
have a laugh with and relax.

> 4) Do something else. Schedule breaks to do things in. Try to choose an
> activity on which you have to focus completely, so that you can't even
> think of study while you do it, and ideally a physical activity.

I do this kind of.  During my last round of exams, I plastered my hallway
with anatomical diagrams.  When I got sick of bookwork, I'd get up and
go stare at a diagram for a while.  I'm not sure how much anatomy I
learned like this, but the change in gear helped me refocus when I sat
down again.  Sometimes I take the dog for a walk if I can't sit still.

Julie.




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Subject: OT more... Arts.
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 11:12:29 +1300
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Julie Wootten" <wootten@xtra.co.nz>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: OT more... Arts.
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 11:12:29 +1300
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I'm an engineer and a veterinarian.  All sciences.  I haven't formally
studied
Arts at university level.  I remember going to one english lecture just to
see
what it was like (subject was Old English), and I'm like "WOW! They tell
you STORIES!"  Heh.

However, what I have learned is mainly from using different books, many
resources if possible.  I studied Art History quite a bit, and I enjoyed
just looking at different pictures, visiting Art Galleries, and talking to
myself
in my head about aspects of the painting, what things represent, about
techniques used, what the artist was trying to do, what possible influences
there are.  That really helped me a lot.  Almost like practice essays, but
in
my head.

For subjects like foreign languages, I go with the flash card approach.
That is, cards with a word or phrase written on them, and on the back
the translation.  You make them in a session while studying the language,
and then go through them many times later.  Make sure you make a lot
of them.  Then you can keep them in your pocket, and use them whenever
you have a couple of minutes spare... like waiting for a bus.

There are undoubtedly better ways to learn, which I would probably
discover if I were to study the arts more, but for subjects in which I
only want knowledge for personal interest reasons, that's what works
for me.

Julie.


From: "Monwar" <monwar1982@yahoo.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2002 7:34 AM


> Julie,
>
> You did not give me your tips regarding Arts subjects. Come on, send those.
>
>
> _________________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
>




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From: Gkhd11a@aol.com
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 19:12:35 EST
Subject: Re: Pug
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You know, if Feist wrote about him as much as you guys want, we would all get 
boered of him.  IMO, that would be worse than just keeping things the way 
they are, and will be.  But Pug and Tomas are great characters.  It would be 
pretty cool to see a computer generated scene where Pug and Tomas got into a 
fight- with there strenths as they are at the end of the Riftwar.

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From: Tim Nicholas <tim@nicholas.net.nz>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Pug
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 13:38:01 +1300
From: Tim Nicholas <tim@nicholas.net.nz>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Pug
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Hello Ray,
Just wondering how you pick names for characters. Do you have any
kind of process, or do you just pick one essentially at random
(whatever sounds good at the time). 
Are their any names that have any significance or interesting
origin?

Tim

(When I saw the name Magnus, I immediately thought of Magnus Pym, the
character in John Le Carre's `A Perfect Spy'.)

On Wed, Feb 13, 2002 at 02:22:16PM -0800, Raymond Feist wrote:
> 
> On Wednesday, February 13, 2002, at 11:21 AM, Mic Olafson wrote:
> 
> >
> >
> > Ray,
> >
> > I was woundering if pug plays a part in any of the up comming books, 
> > like Honoured Enemy Or Jimmy The Hand or Murder in LaMut.
> >
> 
> No.
> 
> But he will show up during the Conclave of Shadows, in a minor role.  
> You'll finally meet his two sons, Magnus and Caleb.
> 
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
> 
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
> stupidity.
> 

-- 
Tim Nicholas                          ||                      Cilix
Email: tim@nicholas.net.nz            ||              ICQ# 15869961
http://tim.nicholas.net.nz/           ||       Dunedin, New Zealand
"Grow up, Larry. You give me too much credit." - Linus Torvalds



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Subject: Re: not sex and culture, but religion :)
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From: Andrea J Chee <andrea@bloodaxe.com>
Subject: Re: not sex and culture, but religion :)
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In article <000d01c1b4c0$76fb8480$2022becb@mufakker>, Monwar
<monwar1982@yahoo.com> writes
>Thanks for the nice and well-thought reply. Christianity seems to have
>changed and taken many forms over the ages. One question, can any christian
>claim that the religion they follow today was the one preached by Jesus
>(pbuh)?

I doubt it, although all will try to make the claim. As I understand it,
most of Jesus' disciples set up a church in Jerusalem which was the
closest to a true church (although it was more of a Jewish temple since
they all remained Jewish). However, this church wasn't much interested
in trying to spread the word beyond its own sphere of influence,
insisted that all who wanted to join and follow Jesus convert to
Judaism, remained small and eventually died out.

In the meantime, St Paul (who had only ever been an outspoken critic of
Christ's teachings, and wouldn't really have known what his intentions
were) had his famous revelation on the road to Damascus. He tried to
preach in a number of places, including Jerusalem from where Jesus'
followers drove him away, and eventually started his own version of the
church. He was a political player who spread his church (and his
influence) widely into as many places as he could by promoting it
vigorously and making it open to gentiles, and it eventually became
Roman Catholicism. From that tree sprang many branches of Christianity.
No modern branch of Christianity has any direct connection with the
original church in Jerusalem which lasted only a short time after the
death of Christ.

There are groups of self-styled 'Gnostic Catholics', some of which claim
to be attempting to revive the original church, but of course they're
2,000 years removed from the original intentions, conveniently overlook
the Jewish side of things, and probably are no closer to the true church
than anyone else.

- ANDREA

-- 
  Get PAID for the emails you already send and receive! 
http://www.mailround.com/  Referrer: andrea@bloodaxe.com
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 17:54:29 -0800
Subject: Re: Pug 
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Wednesday, February 13, 2002, at 02:46 PM, Valheru22@aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 2/13/2002 2:39:22 PM Pacific Standard Time, 
> raymond@bittersea.com writes:
>
>
> No.
>
> But he will show up during the Conclave of Shadows, in a minor role. 
> You'll finally meet his two sons, Magnus and Caleb.
>
> Best, R.E.F.
>
>
>
> That'll be cool though!
> -Chance
>
> Ps. WIll we see Tomas?
>

No.

Best,R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.

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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 17:55:49 -0800
Subject: Re: Pug
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
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On Wednesday, February 13, 2002, at 04:38 PM, Tim Nicholas wrote:

> Hello Ray,
> Just wondering how you pick names for characters. Do you have any
> kind of process, or do you just pick one essentially at random
> (whatever sounds good at the time).
> Are their any names that have any significance or interesting
>

They just come to me.  Kasumi, for example, was a twist on Kazumi, a car 
salesman I met once.  I'm dating a girl named Leyla, so there's a Lela 
in the next book.

Other times they just pop into my head.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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>
>Me too. MORE PUG MORE PUG MORE PUG!!
>
>- Xiahou Dun
>
>
>
>YEA PUG IS THE BEST...well next to Tomas HE IS THE BEST!
>- Valheru22@aol.com

I was going to write that :P


               Kev

Caution:TRUST ME



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This is getting far off the topic of Feist's work. It does have something
to do with the general process of world-design (understanding variations
on real-world cultures can help design realistic fictional ones), but if
I write another reply after this it will be off-list, private email only.

[Monwar]

>Thanks for the nice and well-thought reply. Christianity seems to have
>changed and taken many forms over the ages. One question, can any 
>christian claim that the religion they follow today was the one preached 
>by Jesus (pbuh)?

Both Catholic and Orthodox churches claim to be the actual organization
founded by Jesus through his apostles. Protestants believe that that organ-
ization became corrupted with time, which is the reason they splintered
off. I'm not aware of whether Protestant churches claim to be the original
entity or not; my impression is that most of them feel that there is no
uniquely true church, and do not claim to be the original. There is a 
famous quote from an American Protestant minister, a Baptist, Roger 
Williams, who near the end of his life refused to continue as a minister
on the grounds that (to paraphrase) no church then on earth had authority
to act on God's behalf, and none would until God sent new messengers to
Earth. This is essentially the position of Restorationist branches of
Christianity, although Williams was not a Restorationist. Restorationists
also feel that the original church was corrupted, but generally claim
to embody the divine restoration of the original truths taught by Jesus.
The major Restorationist faiths in the United States of which I am aware
are the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints ("Mormons") and the
Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, a splinter group.
A church in the Philippines called the Iglesia ni Cristo ("Church of 
Christ") is somewhat similar.

So, a lot of religions would like to claim to be the original Christian
faith. I'm not qualified to make an archaelogical case for one of them
being closest to the original, especially I'm biased in belonging to one
of those faiths--so take the things I say with a grain of salt. But I
think I can tell you that the original Christians had a lot in common
with Judaism--perfectly logical, since they were based in Judaism and
in fact claimed to be the "true" Judaism in the same way that 
Restorationists claim to be "true" Christianity--and were very strict
moralists, though with much less emphasis on ritual than was common
in Judaism at the time. (One of the early apostles--though not one of the
first 12--named Paul, for example, gives his opinion that there's nothing
inherently wrong with eating food sacrificed to idols as long as you fully
understand that idols are just rocks, unless some other Christian thus
seeing you eat might be led into idolatry by your supposed example. This
pragmatism was, to my knowledge, not typical of Judaism at the time. Paul
also didn't believe in maintaining the old dietary codes of not eating 
pork, etc., though there was some justification for the change.)

[Monwar]

>If you ask the same question to a muslim, you are certain to get the 
>answer 'yes'. However, we also follow Jesus (pronounced Isu(s) in Arabic)

<grin> Yes, I know. Calling the man Yeshua "Jesus" is like calling me 
"Maximilianus" or you "Monwarus," in a Romanized fashion. (Actually,
I think "Jesus" is Greek, but...)
 
>as a very important prophet (2nd after Muhammad (pbuh)) and the Bible is 
>also a religious book of the muslims. But most, repeat, most muslims have 
>a strong belief that it's not the same one sent by God. That's why, many 
>muslims beleive that today's christianity is not quite what it was meant 
>to be. I have found the claim somewhat true, but I'm still largely 
>ignorant.

I can make the definite statement that the men who instigated the Crusades
to conquer the Holy Land in all likelihood hadn't a clue what Christianity
was, except for the superficial knowledge that somebody named Jesus Christ
had died to save them. I can't tell you what Mohammed considered a Christ-
ian to be, but if I had to make a recommendation I'd say be friendly to
anyone who practices honesty and good principles, whether he's Hindu,
Christian, Wiccan, or what-have-you. I care more about how a person lives
than what he believes, although it's also true that the right beliefs make
it easier to live ethically and morally.

>This may be root to many problems and attacks, because there is clear
>passage is the Quran saying thet Christians are the friends of muslims and
>it is said there to make friends of them because they can be trusted and
>they're 'Ahle Kitab' (of the book). After OBL's declaration of killing
>Americans in 98, this question was raised by some moderate Imams (clerics)
>in the southern part of Bangladesh but a few hardliners answered that 
>those who follow christianity now-a-days are not christians. [snip]

>So, that fact IS important, has the Bible changed too much?

[thinks for a second] In terms of trustworthiness, I'd say that Christians
nowadays are as trustworthy as they were in (548-odd?) A.D. (or C.E.).
They do generally believe in justice, and the tendency to be "nice" and
extend forgiveness is probably much stronger than it was back then.
American culture has a very strong component which defends underdogs
and fights for civil rights for the underprivileged. Yes, they're your
friends in some respects. I'd trust them to guard your back. If you're
worried about cultural influences, though, I don't think you should trust
them to guard your women. This thread started out asking about sexual mores
among Americans, and that part of Christianity... it's going to depend
on the individual Christian. Don't tell me it doesn't work that way in
Islam, too. I think you can tell who really is Ahle Kitab, because AFAIK
Islamic morals are essentially the same as the ones taught in the book of 
the Christians and you'll recognize the similarities.

Anyway, I hope my opinions are giving you a better idea of American / 
Western religious culture. If you want hard data I'll look up some primary
sources for you. To anyone who's bored by this, thanks for putting up
with me for a bit. :)

Maximilian Wilson
-- 
I learned that it is the weak who are cruel
And that gentleness is only to be expected from the strong.
  --Leo Rosten



__________________________________________________________________
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Subject: Re: Pug
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Jay" <res0ibjw@verizon.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Pug
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 23:53:13 -0800
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I recall a thread where someone said "You can't kill off Pug!" and REF
responded with "Wanna bet?" That was awful, I think Pug is by far my
favorite character, and it would kill me to see him die. I think having him
move off (a la Macros leaving after Sethanon) would be a better end for him,
but the thought of him dying scares me.



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Subject: Re: Pug
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 19:14:18 +1100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Anestis Kozakis <kenosti@labyrinth.net.au>
Subject: Re: Pug
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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At 23:53 -0800 2002/02/13, Jay wrote:
>I recall a thread where someone said "You can't kill off Pug!" and REF
>responded with "Wanna bet?" That was awful, I think Pug is by far my
>favorite character, and it would kill me to see him die. I think having him
>move off (a la Macros leaving after Sethanon) would be a better end for him,
>but the thought of him dying scares me.

Why was it awful?

It's Ray's universe and they're his characters.  If Ray wants to kill 
off major characters, then I say good for him.  It's not like he 
hasn't done it before.

If you don't want to see Ray kill off any more characters, then I 
suggest you stop reading his books now.

If you don't want to see your favourite characters die, then stop 
reading now and start writing your own books that have characters 
that never die.  Personally, I think they'd be a bit boring.

Ray doesn't write for us, he writes for himself.  We can't tell Ray 
what to write, he writes what he feels like writing.

Ray isn't afraid to do things like kill off major or favourite 
characters, and that's why I like reading his books.

Anestis.
-- 
kenosti@labyrinth.net.au
"A complete list of this film's associate producers
  is available upon request."
    -- In End Credits for "State and Main"



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Subject: Re: Pug
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Western Rhythm" <info@westernrhythm.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Pug
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 16:38:32 +0800
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I don't know,
Realism is sometimes good, being that the characters die and etc. With Ray's
books I've enjoyed that because it keeps the story realistic.
However, I've always hated those things like movies and that, that follow a
different trend just because they want something different, like they don't
finish the movie with a happy or witty ending etc. I prefer seeing a happy
ending, its just the way it is, I enjoy the witty build up of the storyline,
rather then the end, as long as it finishes properly.

In Pugs case to kill him would probably make a big difference in my
enjoyment. Even though the books so far only mention him sometimes, I still
enjoy the other characters and the world, however PUG is still on the mind,
if he was made all-powerful and disappears then that would be cool, but to
terminate his contract (lol) that wouldn't be so cool. But then again I
suppose you could adopt another character like his son's as previously
mentioned if they were destined to take pug's mantle, that would be cool.

But your right, its Ray's world he can do what he wishes, I certainly would
hate someone else coming in and telling me what to do or what not to do.
Bearing in mind everyone has a different viewpoint then everyone else as
well, so you can't please everyone, to do so would ruin it.

Keep up the Good work mate,

David G Hay
Western Rhythm Premier Entertainment.
www.westernrhythm.com
manager@westernrhythm.com

'Feel the Rhythm'


----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------

> Why was it awful?
>
> It's Ray's universe and they're his characters.  If Ray wants to kill
> off major characters, then I say good for him.  It's not like he
> hasn't done it before.
>
> If you don't want to see Ray kill off any more characters, then I
> suggest you stop reading his books now.
>
> If you don't want to see your favourite characters die, then stop
> reading now and start writing your own books that have characters
> that never die.  Personally, I think they'd be a bit boring.
>
> Ray doesn't write for us, he writes for himself.  We can't tell Ray
> what to write, he writes what he feels like writing.
>
> Ray isn't afraid to do things like kill off major or favourite
> characters, and that's why I like reading his books.
>
> Anestis.
> --
> kenosti@labyrinth.net.au
> "A complete list of this film's associate producers
>   is available upon request."
>     -- In End Credits for "State and Main"



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Subject: what's next?
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 16:39:53 +0800
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Western Rhythm" <info@westernrhythm.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: what's next?
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 16:39:53 +0800
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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By the way,

what's the next book in line now?

can't wait

cheers



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Subject: Re: Pug
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 04:01:21 -0500
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Rich" <richse@eden.rutgers.edu>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Pug
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 04:01:21 -0500
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

    I disagree, Pug is also my favorite character but I think its more
interesting when main character are eventually killed off.  It opens the way
for new characters.  I think it would pain me to see him die but at the same
time I would probably really enjoy reading about it.

-Rich-

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jay" <res0ibjw@verizon.net>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2002 2:53 AM
Subject: Re: Pug


> I recall a thread where someone said "You can't kill off Pug!" and REF
> responded with "Wanna bet?" That was awful, I think Pug is by far my
> favorite character, and it would kill me to see him die. I think having him
> move off (a la Macros leaving after Sethanon) would be a better end for him,
> but the thought of him dying scares me.
>



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At 02:22 PM 2/13/02 -0800, Raymond Feist wrote:
>But he will show up during the Conclave of Shadows, in a minor role.  
>You'll finally meet his two sons, Magnus and Caleb.

Interesting.  Up to this point, it was just Magnus, I don't remember
Caleb.

Can you imagine having Miranda as your mother?  (That was to the 
list, Ray ;-> I'm perfectly prepared to believe that you've already 
done that...)

rip



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From: "Monwar" <monwar1982@yahoo.com>
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Subject: Re: Western religions
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 15:50:56 +0600
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From: "Monwar" <monwar1982@yahoo.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Western religions
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 15:50:56 +0600
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I am yet to read your mail, but better start sending personal mails. This
topic should not be continued in the mailing list, it's too far off topic.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Maximilian Wilson" <wilsonm80@netscape.net>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Cc: <evilevag@hotmail.com>; <c03tomas.owen@usafa.af.mil>;
<ajr47@email.byu.edu>
Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2002 1:42 PM
Subject: Western religions


> This is getting far off the topic of Feist's work. It does have something
> to do with the general process of world-design (understanding variations
> on real-world cultures can help design realistic fictional ones), but if
> I write another reply after this it will be off-list, private email only.
>
> [Monwar]
>
> >Thanks for the nice and well-thought reply. Christianity seems to have
> >changed and taken many forms over the ages. One question, can any
> >christian claim that the religion they follow today was the one preached
> >by Jesus (pbuh)?
>
> Both Catholic and Orthodox churches claim to be the actual organization
> founded by Jesus through his apostles. Protestants believe that that organ-
> ization became corrupted with time, which is the reason they splintered
> off. I'm not aware of whether Protestant churches claim to be the original
> entity or not; my impression is that most of them feel that there is no
> uniquely true church, and do not claim to be the original. There is a
> famous quote from an American Protestant minister, a Baptist, Roger
> Williams, who near the end of his life refused to continue as a minister
> on the grounds that (to paraphrase) no church then on earth had authority
> to act on God's behalf, and none would until God sent new messengers to
> Earth. This is essentially the position of Restorationist branches of
> Christianity, although Williams was not a Restorationist. Restorationists
> also feel that the original church was corrupted, but generally claim
> to embody the divine restoration of the original truths taught by Jesus.
> The major Restorationist faiths in the United States of which I am aware
> are the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints ("Mormons") and the
> Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, a splinter group.
> A church in the Philippines called the Iglesia ni Cristo ("Church of
> Christ") is somewhat similar.
>
> So, a lot of religions would like to claim to be the original Christian
> faith. I'm not qualified to make an archaelogical case for one of them
> being closest to the original, especially I'm biased in belonging to one
> of those faiths--so take the things I say with a grain of salt. But I
> think I can tell you that the original Christians had a lot in common
> with Judaism--perfectly logical, since they were based in Judaism and
> in fact claimed to be the "true" Judaism in the same way that
> Restorationists claim to be "true" Christianity--and were very strict
> moralists, though with much less emphasis on ritual than was common
> in Judaism at the time. (One of the early apostles--though not one of the
> first 12--named Paul, for example, gives his opinion that there's nothing
> inherently wrong with eating food sacrificed to idols as long as you fully
> understand that idols are just rocks, unless some other Christian thus
> seeing you eat might be led into idolatry by your supposed example. This
> pragmatism was, to my knowledge, not typical of Judaism at the time. Paul
> also didn't believe in maintaining the old dietary codes of not eating
> pork, etc., though there was some justification for the change.)
>
> [Monwar]
>
> >If you ask the same question to a muslim, you are certain to get the
> >answer 'yes'. However, we also follow Jesus (pronounced Isu(s) in Arabic)
>
> <grin> Yes, I know. Calling the man Yeshua "Jesus" is like calling me
> "Maximilianus" or you "Monwarus," in a Romanized fashion. (Actually,
> I think "Jesus" is Greek, but...)
>
> >as a very important prophet (2nd after Muhammad (pbuh)) and the Bible is
> >also a religious book of the muslims. But most, repeat, most muslims have
> >a strong belief that it's not the same one sent by God. That's why, many
> >muslims beleive that today's christianity is not quite what it was meant
> >to be. I have found the claim somewhat true, but I'm still largely
> >ignorant.
>
> I can make the definite statement that the men who instigated the Crusades
> to conquer the Holy Land in all likelihood hadn't a clue what Christianity
> was, except for the superficial knowledge that somebody named Jesus Christ
> had died to save them. I can't tell you what Mohammed considered a Christ-
> ian to be, but if I had to make a recommendation I'd say be friendly to
> anyone who practices honesty and good principles, whether he's Hindu,
> Christian, Wiccan, or what-have-you. I care more about how a person lives
> than what he believes, although it's also true that the right beliefs make
> it easier to live ethically and morally.
>
> >This may be root to many problems and attacks, because there is clear
> >passage is the Quran saying thet Christians are the friends of muslims and
> >it is said there to make friends of them because they can be trusted and
> >they're 'Ahle Kitab' (of the book). After OBL's declaration of killing
> >Americans in 98, this question was raised by some moderate Imams (clerics)
> >in the southern part of Bangladesh but a few hardliners answered that
> >those who follow christianity now-a-days are not christians. [snip]
>
> >So, that fact IS important, has the Bible changed too much?
>
> [thinks for a second] In terms of trustworthiness, I'd say that Christians
> nowadays are as trustworthy as they were in (548-odd?) A.D. (or C.E.).
> They do generally believe in justice, and the tendency to be "nice" and
> extend forgiveness is probably much stronger than it was back then.
> American culture has a very strong component which defends underdogs
> and fights for civil rights for the underprivileged. Yes, they're your
> friends in some respects. I'd trust them to guard your back. If you're
> worried about cultural influences, though, I don't think you should trust
> them to guard your women. This thread started out asking about sexual mores
> among Americans, and that part of Christianity... it's going to depend
> on the individual Christian. Don't tell me it doesn't work that way in
> Islam, too. I think you can tell who really is Ahle Kitab, because AFAIK
> Islamic morals are essentially the same as the ones taught in the book of
> the Christians and you'll recognize the similarities.
>
> Anyway, I hope my opinions are giving you a better idea of American /
> Western religious culture. If you want hard data I'll look up some primary
> sources for you. To anyone who's bored by this, thanks for putting up
> with me for a bit. :)
>
> Maximilian Wilson
> --
> I learned that it is the weak who are cruel
> And that gentleness is only to be expected from the strong.
>   --Leo Rosten
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________________________
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Subject: Re: 
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Never even thought of that, makes sense though:-)

James Silva wrote:

> Makes perfect sense, Christ can't be a christian because christians 
> are followers of Christ (as the savior?). Can't follow yourself. Same 
> thing goes for Muhammad.
>
> Adieu
>
> Jimmy
>
>
>> From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
>> Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>> To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
>> Subject: Re:
>> Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 14:41:50 -0600
>>
>>     I will answer more in depth to Monwar in private, but this as my
>> only comment on the subject in public is that Jesus was a Jew, not a
>> Christian.  Christian doctrine was mostly formulated based on the
>> writings on those who were with him and evaluated in Nicene in the
>> 4th Century.  There were re-evaluations again in several other eras,
>> but the basis for all of modern theology pretty much can be summed
>> up in what was discussed in that meeting.  By the same token,
>> Muhammad himself was not a Muslim because the religion followed
>> mostly after his own time had passed.  This is a point where both
>> groups are likely to point out that yes they follow the teachings,
>> but neither can unequivocally say that they follow the same path as
>> the first.
>>
>> -James
>





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Erik Trulsson wrote:

>>This may be root to many problems and attacks, because there is clear
>>passage is the Quran saying thet Christians are the friends of muslims and
>>it is said there to make friends of them because they can be trusted and
>>they're 'Ahle Kitab' (of the book). After OBL's declaration of killing
>>Americans in 98, this question was raised by some moderate Imams (clerics)
>>in the southern part of Bangladesh but a few hardliners answered that those
>>who follow christianity now-a-days are not christians. So the Quranic word
>>was violated. However, these hardliners were far outnumbered by the
>>moderates and there was not many proecssions here is support of OBL as in
>>other Islamic countries. So, that fact IS important, has the Bible changed
>>too much?
>>
>
>The Bible has not changed noticeably since it was written.  The
>interpretations of what is meant by what is written in the Bible has
>changed several times.
>
>Also note that the way christianity is practiced can vary quite a bit
>between different parts of the world and did so even back when Muhammed
>lived.  
>
>
>It is also worth noting that all of the New Testament in the Bible was
>written *after* Jesus had been crucified, in part several decades
>later, so it is not clear that what it is written in the Bible that
>Jesus said is what he actually did say.
>
That I cannot agree with, at least not fully. No one knows what the 
bible was like originally as our oldest copies are several generations 
after the apostles iirc. And then there have been lots of translation 
errors over the centuries, not to mention monks copying the work without 
full understanding, and then correcting what they perceived as errors 
(or simply did not like). Even then, you have a number of different 
bibles today, the differences are generally minor, but even minor 
differences can create havoc when it concerns religion. And yes, add to 
that the different religious groups who give different values to the 
bible and later teachings of Christianity.

You should never forget that only for a minority of Christians, the 
bible is the ultimate word of religious laws. For catholics for 
instance, due to the Pope's role, any later law of the Roman church is 
as important as the bible itself. Protestants on the other hand 
generally claim the bible as the only rule and any other theories as 
worthless. I tend to side with catholicism in this issue, not because I 
believe in their credo or the Pope, but rather because I feel that 
religion is really only a doctrine to improve society, as such it has to 
adabt to the times, or else fade away. Then again, if I had that 
discussion with the local priest he would have a fit;-) And yes, I was 
raised catholic and became an atheist after deciding that religion is 
illogical, and indeed as Marx said, opium for the people. I respect the 
origins of most religions, but not what they became, though I leave 
people to take their own choices whether they wish to worship or not, 
whether they wish to accept as law things that were written 1400, 2000 
or 3500... years ago. Heck, as a Marxist I don't even accept Marx's 
words from 150 years ago (Lenin, Trotsky or anyone else either) as 
absolute truth, rather as a guide line from which to model society, yet 
adapting to changes over time. (Now how did I get into that discussion?)

>>I don't like to start this kind of religious topics as it creates too much
>>hot debate and the starter is often convicted as the troublemaker, but I do
>>think a lot about religion. It would take hours to express even the summary
>>of my opinions concerning religions, but the opposing factions of Islam
>>(moderates vs fundamentalists) you see today may have stemmed from the lack
>>of a central structure, like the papacy. But okay, I don't want to discuss
>>more about it unless I know about your opinion.
>>
>
>Christianity has probably at least as many factions as Islam and has
>had it basically ever since the beginning so a central structure is not
>proof against that.
>
I'd say it has more factions. We already have 3 major schisms 
(Catholicism, Orthodoxy and Protestantism) vs. 2 in Islam (Sunni and 
Shia). Then each of the Christian groups is again divided (even 
Catholicism) into a number of regional or sectarian groups. I expect the 
same applies to Islam, but that divisionis not quite as advanced (the 
schism being predominant). And of course Christianity is only 
centralised for catholics (not even all of those), it has regional 
centers for Orthodox (Greek, Russian, Serbian etc.) and is hardly 
centralised at all for protestants (for whom even a priest seems to be 
anathema at times, not to speak of hierarchy;-)

Oh and none of this is meant as an insult to anyone's religious 
feelings. I may not believe, but don't mind you doing so (I do envy you 
a bit, knowing all the answers is much easier then searching all the 
time, but then once you chose that path there is no way back).

Marc aka Caran...

P.S.: My greatest fear is that one day Marxism will turn into a religion.




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Subject: Re: not sex and culture, but religion :)
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Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 13:28:24 +0100
From: Caranorn Aglaredhel <caranorn@cmdnet.lu>
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Subject: Re: not sex and culture, but religion :)
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Then again, Mohammed would not have known the original christian church, 
but that of the 7th century (unless I got my dates wrong, horible for a 
historian, but I never recall exact dates).

I would also have thought that at least some of the gnostic churches 
were quite old, though not related to the original christian church. But 
medieval history is only my hobby and I never bothered much about 
religion in the era other then how it affected latin society (and the 
gnostics tend to be eastern (greek) iirc).

Marc aka Caran...

Andrea J Chee wrote:

>In article <000d01c1b4c0$76fb8480$2022becb@mufakker>, Monwar
><monwar1982@yahoo.com> writes
>
>>Thanks for the nice and well-thought reply. Christianity seems to have
>>changed and taken many forms over the ages. One question, can any christian
>>claim that the religion they follow today was the one preached by Jesus
>>(pbuh)?
>>
>
>I doubt it, although all will try to make the claim. As I understand it,
>most of Jesus' disciples set up a church in Jerusalem which was the
>closest to a true church (although it was more of a Jewish temple since
>they all remained Jewish). However, this church wasn't much interested
>in trying to spread the word beyond its own sphere of influence,
>insisted that all who wanted to join and follow Jesus convert to
>Judaism, remained small and eventually died out.
>
>In the meantime, St Paul (who had only ever been an outspoken critic of
>Christ's teachings, and wouldn't really have known what his intentions
>were) had his famous revelation on the road to Damascus. He tried to
>preach in a number of places, including Jerusalem from where Jesus'
>followers drove him away, and eventually started his own version of the
>church. He was a political player who spread his church (and his
>influence) widely into as many places as he could by promoting it
>vigorously and making it open to gentiles, and it eventually became
>Roman Catholicism. From that tree sprang many branches of Christianity.
>No modern branch of Christianity has any direct connection with the
>original church in Jerusalem which lasted only a short time after the
>death of Christ.
>
>There are groups of self-styled 'Gnostic Catholics', some of which claim
>to be attempting to revive the original church, but of course they're
>2,000 years removed from the original intentions, conveniently overlook
>the Jewish side of things, and probably are no closer to the true church
>than anyone else.
>
>- ANDREA
>





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From: "Donal K. Fellows" <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk>
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In-reply-to: <3C6BABBD.7040203@cmdnet.lu> (message from Caranorn Aglaredhel on
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Donal K. Fellows" <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: not sex and culture, but religion :)
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 13:23:56 +0000
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Caranorn Aglaredhel <caranorn@cmdnet.lu>
> I'd say it has more factions. We already have 3 major schisms 
> (Catholicism, Orthodoxy and Protestantism) vs. 2 in Islam (Sunni and 
> Shia).

There's also the Amadiyah's (no idea how to write that properly) which
both Sunnis and Shias claim are not Islamic at all, and there's a fair
few of them about.  From all reports the Amadiyahs are nice people,
but I'm definitely unsure about the doctrinal differences between the
various Islamic sects (IIRC, some of it is to do with how they regard
the writings about how the Mohammed lived, but I could be wrong.)  But
then, I'm not too sure about the differences between the Orthodox and
Catholic churches other than the ways which the priests dress...

[Christianity]
> is hardly centralised at all for protestants (for whom even a priest
> seems to be anathema at times, not to speak of hierarchy;-)

That's actually a point of dispute between various protestants, and
was certainly been a major component in The Civil War (no, the British
one) though it wasn't the only factor.

Donal.
-- 
Donal K. Fellows, Department of Computer Science, University of Manchester, UK.
(work) fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk     Tel: +44-161-275-6137  (preferred email addr.)
(home) donal@ugglan.demon.co.uk  Tel: +44-1274-401017   Mobile: +44-7957-298955
http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~fellowsd/  (Don't quote my .sig; I've seen it before!)



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From: Larry Siegel <larry@psihawk.com>
Subject: Re: Pug
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 08:26:37 -0500
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Larry Siegel <larry@psihawk.com>
Subject: Re: Pug
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Ya'know....

Thinking about Ray killing Pug off....

Can you just imagine the power of the creature/being
that could pull that off.....?

Then again.. Ray could just as easily have him slip on
a banana peel.....


Larry

My Homepage
http://www.psihawk.com

Raymond E. Feist FAQ
http://www.psihawk.com/feist



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To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
References: <4b.1845484c.299c2c30@aol.com> <3C6B2C88.000007.64069@kevinetter.pacbell.net> <002001c1b52c$a790fcd0$0200a8c0@jay> <a05100300b8912166330a@[192.168.0.2]>
Subject: Re: Pug
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 05:44:21 -0800
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Jay" <res0ibjw@verizon.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Pug
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 05:44:21 -0800
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Sigh... I guess I forgot to put the standard flame-resistant "In my
opinion..." at the beginning of every sentence. I had thought that when I
said "it would kill me to see him die" and "I <b>think</b> so and so would
be better" that it would be assumed my mail was an opinion, and not an
attempt to persuade my favorite author to write differently to suit me. I'll
be more careful with my dangerous opinions in the future. I mean, some
people just responded with an argument for their opinions... they didn't
tell me to stop reading REF's books... twice.
Sorry for the vent guys... long night.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Anestis Kozakis" <kenosti@labyrinth.net.au>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2002 12:14 AM
Subject: Re: Pug


> At 23:53 -0800 2002/02/13, Jay wrote:
> >I recall a thread where someone said "You can't kill off Pug!" and REF
> >responded with "Wanna bet?" That was awful, I think Pug is by far my
> >favorite character, and it would kill me to see him die. I think having him
> >move off (a la Macros leaving after Sethanon) would be a better end for him,
> >but the thought of him dying scares me.
>
> Why was it awful?
>
> It's Ray's universe and they're his characters.  If Ray wants to kill
> off major characters, then I say good for him.  It's not like he
> hasn't done it before.
>
> If you don't want to see Ray kill off any more characters, then I
> suggest you stop reading his books now.
>
> If you don't want to see your favourite characters die, then stop
> reading now and start writing your own books that have characters
> that never die.  Personally, I think they'd be a bit boring.
>
> Ray doesn't write for us, he writes for himself.  We can't tell Ray
> what to write, he writes what he feels like writing.
>
> Ray isn't afraid to do things like kill off major or favourite
> characters, and that's why I like reading his books.
>
> Anestis.
> --
> kenosti@labyrinth.net.au
> "A complete list of this film's associate producers
>   is available upon request."
>     -- In End Credits for "State and Main"
>
>



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From: Dun Xiahou <xiahoudun13@yahoo.com>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 06:31:09 -0800 (PST)
From: Dun Xiahou <xiahoudun13@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: not sex and culture, but religion :)
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I've read a little of the Quran, and I noticed an
interesting trend.  It seems that each verse in the
Koran seems to, in basic terms, have a solution to a
very specific problem at a very specific time.  For
example, earlier in the Quran, it speaks of the evil
Israelites, and how they are all spawned from pigs or
something like that.  Later in the Quran it refers to
Jews, Christians, and even hints at Buddhists as well,
as people of the book or of the faith.  There it says
that all people of the faith and people with a good
heart should never fear for they shall be exhaulted in
the afterlife just the same as good Muslims.

When the earlier parts of the Quran were written,
Muhammed was at war with the Jews.  Later on, when he
had established peace, he sought to maintain that
peace by urging his followers to welcome people of
other faiths.  A total reversal of policy.  And people
wonder how murderers and terrorists can claim they are
following the word of Islam at the same time law
abiding US Muslims claim the same thing.  I suppose
they are both right and both wrong!

Just thought that bit was pretty interesting.  This
kind of thing is the reason why I've completely
rejected any kind of "organized" religion.

- Xiahou Dun

--- "Donal K. Fellows" <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk> wrote:
> Caranorn Aglaredhel <caranorn@cmdnet.lu>
> > I'd say it has more factions. We already have 3
> major schisms 
> > (Catholicism, Orthodoxy and Protestantism) vs. 2
> in Islam (Sunni and 
> > Shia).
> 
> There's also the Amadiyah's (no idea how to write
> that properly) which
> both Sunnis and Shias claim are not Islamic at all,
> and there's a fair
> few of them about.  From all reports the Amadiyahs
> are nice people,
> but I'm definitely unsure about the doctrinal
> differences between the
> various Islamic sects (IIRC, some of it is to do
> with how they regard
> the writings about how the Mohammed lived, but I
> could be wrong.)  But
> then, I'm not too sure about the differences between
> the Orthodox and
> Catholic churches other than the ways which the
> priests dress...
> 
> [Christianity]
> > is hardly centralised at all for protestants (for
> whom even a priest
> > seems to be anathema at times, not to speak of
> hierarchy;-)
> 
> That's actually a point of dispute between various
> protestants, and
> was certainly been a major component in The Civil
> War (no, the British
> one) though it wasn't the only factor.
> 
> Donal.
> -- 
> Donal K. Fellows, Department of Computer Science,
> University of Manchester, UK.
> (work) fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk     Tel:
> +44-161-275-6137  (preferred email addr.)
> (home) donal@ugglan.demon.co.uk  Tel:
> +44-1274-401017   Mobile: +44-7957-298955
> http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~fellowsd/  (Don't quote my
> .sig; I've seen it before!)
> 


__________________________________________________
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Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 07:53:33 -0800
Subject: Re: Pug
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 07:53:33 -0800
Subject: Re: Pug
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Wednesday, February 13, 2002, at 11:53 PM, Jay wrote:

> I recall a thread where someone said "You can't kill off Pug!" and REF
> responded with "Wanna bet?" That was awful, I think Pug is by far my
> favorite character, and it would kill me to see him die. I think having 
> him
> move off (a la Macros leaving after Sethanon) would be a better end for 
> him,
> but the thought of him dying scares me.
>
>
>
>

"Scares" you?

Jay, he's a character in a book.  Assume Ivanhoe and Long John Silver 
have both died of old age, OK? <g>

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 07:55:29 -0800
Subject: Re: Pug 
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 07:55:29 -0800
Subject: Re: Pug 
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Thursday, February 14, 2002, at 01:09 AM, Richard Williamson wrote:

> At 02:22 PM 2/13/02 -0800, Raymond Feist wrote:
>> But he will show up during the Conclave of Shadows, in a minor role.
>> You'll finally meet his two sons, Magnus and Caleb.
>
> Interesting.  Up to this point, it was just Magnus, I don't remember
> Caleb.
>
> Can you imagine having Miranda as your mother?  (That was to the
> list, Ray ;-> I'm perfectly prepared to believe that you've already
> done that...)
>

Ah. . . yup.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 07:56:41 -0800
Subject: Re: not sex and culture, but religion :)
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 07:56:41 -0800
Subject: Re: not sex and culture, but religion :)
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Thursday, February 14, 2002, at 04:21 AM, Caranorn Aglaredhel wrote:

>

>
> P.S.: My greatest fear is that one day Marxism will turn into a 
> religion.
>
>
>
>
>

It already did, and it failed as one.

I think it's time to take this topic off the list.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 07:54:53 -0800
Subject: Re: what's next?
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 07:54:53 -0800
Subject: Re: what's next?
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Thursday, February 14, 2002, at 12:39 AM, Western Rhythm wrote:

> By the way,
>
> what's the next book in line now?
>
> can't wait
>
> cheers
>
>
>
>
Next published book in the UK, Murder in LaMut.  May.

Next published book in the US, Talon of the Silver Hawk.  September in 
the UK, March next year in the US.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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From: Larry Scroggins <falling_98@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: what's next?
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 08:36:30 -0800 (PST)
From: Larry Scroggins <falling_98@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: what's next?
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

It's still early morning, for me at least, so I can't be held responsible
for asking stupid questions. So here goes...  Do you mean that the people
in the UK get Talon in Sept 2002 and we in the US won't get it until March
2003?
--- Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com> wrote:
> 
> On Thursday, February 14, 2002, at 12:39 AM, Western Rhythm wrote:
> 
> > By the way,
> >
> > what's the next book in line now?
> >
> > can't wait
> >
> > cheers
> >
> >
> >
> >
> Next published book in the UK, Murder in LaMut.  May.
> 
> Next published book in the US, Talon of the Silver Hawk.  September in 
> the UK, March next year in the US.
> 
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
> 
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
> stupidity.
> 


=====
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Larry Scroggins

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings!
http://greetings.yahoo.com



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From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: what's next?
In-Reply-To: <20020214163630.50182.qmail@web10007.mail.yahoo.com>
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Yes and No.

Yes, we in the UK get it in Sep 2002.  No, you don't need to wait
until March 2003 (one word:  amazon.co.uk)

rip

At 08:36 AM 2/14/02 -0800, Larry Scroggins wrote:
>It's still early morning, for me at least, so I can't be held responsible
>for asking stupid questions. So here goes...  Do you mean that the people
>in the UK get Talon in Sept 2002 and we in the US won't get it until March
>2003?
>--- Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com> wrote:
>> 
>> On Thursday, February 14, 2002, at 12:39 AM, Western Rhythm wrote:
>> 
>> > By the way,
>> >
>> > what's the next book in line now?
>> >
>> > can't wait
>> >
>> > cheers
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> Next published book in the UK, Murder in LaMut.  May.
>> 
>> Next published book in the US, Talon of the Silver Hawk.  September in 
>> the UK, March next year in the US.
>> 
>> Best, R.E.F.
>> ----
>> 
>> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
>> stupidity.
>> 
>
>
>=====
>-----------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Larry Scroggins
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings!
>http://greetings.yahoo.com



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Subject: Re: what's next?
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Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 11:59:02 -0500
Subject: Re: what's next?
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That's basically what he means... so, if those of us in the US want it 
when it comes out the first time, we'll have to do what we've had to do 
to get the Legends series: order from amazon.uk or wait.

I order from amazon.uk... I don't have that kind of patience <G>


On Thursday, February 14, 2002, at 11:36 AM, Larry Scroggins wrote:

> It's still early morning, for me at least, so I can't be held 
> responsible
> for asking stupid questions. So here goes...  Do you mean that the 
> people
> in the UK get Talon in Sept 2002 and we in the US won't get it until 
> March
> 2003?
>



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From: "Mic Olafson" <tbird7775@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re: Pug
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 11:38:04 -0600
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now


>From: Anestis Kozakis <kenosti@labyrinth.net.au>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
>Subject: Re: Pug
>Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 19:14:18 +1100
>
>At 23:53 -0800 2002/02/13, Jay wrote:
>>I recall a thread where someone said "You can't kill off Pug!" and REF
>>responded with "Wanna bet?" That was awful, I think Pug is by far my
>>favorite character, and it would kill me to see him die. I think having 
>>him
>>move off (a la Macros leaving after Sethanon) would be a better end for 
>>him,
>>but the thought of him dying scares me.
>
>Why was it awful?
>
>It's Ray's universe and they're his characters.  If Ray wants to kill
>off major characters, then I say good for him.  It's not like he
>hasn't done it before.
>
>If you don't want to see Ray kill off any more characters, then I
>suggest you stop reading his books now.
>
>If you don't want to see your favourite characters die, then stop
>reading now and start writing your own books that have characters
>that never die.  Personally, I think they'd be a bit boring.
>
>Ray doesn't write for us, he writes for himself.  We can't tell Ray
>what to write, he writes what he feels like writing.
>
>Ray isn't afraid to do things like kill off major or favourite
>characters, and that's why I like reading his books.
>
>Anestis.
>--
>kenosti@labyrinth.net.au
>"A complete list of this film's associate producers
>  is available upon request."
>    -- In End Credits for "State and Main"

now thats where you are wrong. Ray writes for us we are his fans if we don't 
buy his books he has no reason to write. He can do what he wants in his 
world but that does not meen people would buy them.

Ray when you write do you write what you want or what sells?


_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com



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From: "MChaloner" <markchaloner@btinternet.com>
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Subject: RE: Pug
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 17:40:07 -0000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "MChaloner" <markchaloner@btinternet.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Pug
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 17:40:07 -0000
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

>> I recall a thread where someone said "You can't kill off Pug!" and REF
>> responded with "Wanna bet?" That was awful, I think Pug is by far my 
>> favorite character, and it would kill me to see him die. I think 
>> having him move off (a la Macros leaving after Sethanon) would be a 
>> better end for him,
>> but the thought of him dying scares me.
>>
>"Scares" you?
>Jay, he's a character in a book.  Assume Ivanhoe and Long John Silver 
>have both died of old age, OK? <g>
>Best, R.E.F.
>


I've kind of wondered (because I'm curious) - what's the glue for the
whole saga?

If you're not going to have a central character/s - (whether it be one
who disappears for a while and then reappears) - what is & where is the
pivotal focus for you as a writer?

I'm assuming that the fact that Pug (and to a lesser extent Thomas) has
such longevity in terms of lifespan, is because you see Pug/(Thomas) as
pivotal character/s? - (Of course, I'm just assuming here).

ie:- At the end of the day/in the conclusion, everthing will still hinge
& revolve around them - as central characters?

Are you just temporarily taking the focus away from them for the time
being - or are they not to be central characters in the future?

(That's a bit of a ham-fisted way of asking the question - but I think
you get my drift).


Mark ;-)



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From: Dun Xiahou <xiahoudun13@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: Pug
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Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 10:15:11 -0800 (PST)
From: Dun Xiahou <xiahoudun13@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: Pug
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I hope Pug dies a peaceful death of old age.  We know
that he's mortal now (his little meeting with Lims
Kragma told us that), so eventually he has to die.

As for "he's a fictional character so what do we
care?"... so what? You think we never get attached to
fictional characters?  Call me weak, but I still get
misty eyed when I read the passage where a certain
well known but aged thief and his wife are killed in a
blast of fire in a particular one of Mr Feist's books
(sorry, didn't want to spoil it for anyone who hasn't
read it yet).

So, yes we get attached to fictional characters, I
think it's a compliment to you as a talented writer
that we are capable of becoming attached to constructs
of your own imagination.  I think it's the sign of
true character development when the reader actually
develops real emotions towards these imaginary
characters in books.

Ok, I'll wipe my nose off now, it's looking a little
brown.

- Xiahou Dun

--- MChaloner <markchaloner@btinternet.com> wrote:
> > I recall a thread where someone said "You can't
> kill off Pug!" and REF
> 
> > responded with "Wanna bet?" That was awful, I
> think Pug is by far my 
> > favorite character, and it would kill me to see
> him die. I think 
> > having him move off (a la Macros leaving after
> Sethanon) would be a 
> > better end for him,
> > but the thought of him dying scares me.
> >
> "Scares" you?
> Jay, he's a character in a book.  Assume Ivanhoe and
> Long John Silver 
> have both died of old age, OK? <g>
> Best, R.E.F.
> 
> 
> 
> I've kind of wondered (because I'm curious) - what's
> the glue for the
> whole saga?
> 
> If you're not going to have a central character/s -
> (whether it be one
> who disappears for a while and then reappears) -
> what is & where is the
> pivotal focus for you as a writer?
> 
> I'm assuming that the fact that Pug (and to a lesser
> extent Thomas) has
> such longevity in terms of lifespan, is because you
> see Pug/(Thomas) as
> pivotal character/s? - (Of course, I'm just assuming
> here).
> 
> ie:- At the end of the day/in the conclusion,
> everthing will still hinge
> & revolve around them - as central characters?
> 
> Are you just temporarily taking the focus away from
> them for the time
> being - or are they not to be central characters in
> the future?
> 
> (That's a bit of a ham-fisted way of asking the
> question - but I think
> you get my drift).
> 
> 
> Mark ;-)
> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings!
http://greetings.yahoo.com



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*** EOOH ***
From: "Western Rhythm" <info@westernrhythm.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: what's next?
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 02:27:01 +0800
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When is Conclave of Shadows Due?

can't wait for the books, its always an excuse to take a break from work!!
oh and we in aus get it first gotta love that.

what are those two books about?

ta

cheers
> >
> Next published book in the UK, Murder in LaMut.  May.
> 
> Next published book in the US, Talon of the Silver Hawk.  September in 
> the UK, March next year in the US.
> 
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
> 
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
> stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 10:28:15 -0800
Subject: Re: what's next?
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Thursday, February 14, 2002, at 08:36 AM, Larry Scroggins wrote:

> It's still early morning, for me at least, so I can't be held 
> responsible
> for asking stupid questions. So here goes...  Do you mean that the 
> people
> in the UK get Talon in Sept 2002 and we in the US won't get it until 
> March
> 2003?
>

Yes, that's exactly what it means.
Have a cup of coffee next time, eh? <g>

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 10:30:55 -0800
Subject: Re: Pug
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On Thursday, February 14, 2002, at 09:38 AM, Mic Olafson wrote:

> now thats where you are wrong. Ray writes for us we are his fans if we 
> don't buy his books he has no reason to write. He can do what he wants 
> in his world but that does not meen people would buy them.

You're 100% wrong.  I don't "write for you."  There is no "you" 
collectively.

For every "I want more Pug," letter I get I also get a "'I'm so glad 
you're not writing about Pug," letter.

There is no consensus.  Whatever I write, people are going to say, "This 
is the best ever," or "Nothing comes close to Magician" or whatever.
>
> Ray when you write do you write what you want or what sells?
>

I write what I want.  It happens to sell.

The only person I know who is satisfied is me, so that's what I do.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 10:32:58 -0800
Subject: Re: Pug
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Thursday, February 14, 2002, at 09:40 AM, MChaloner wrote:

>> I recall a thread where someone said "You can't kill off Pug!" and REF
>
>> responded with "Wanna bet?" That was awful, I think Pug is by far my
>> favorite character, and it would kill me to see him die. I think
>> having him move off (a la Macros leaving after Sethanon) would be a
>> better end for him,
>> but the thought of him dying scares me.
>>
> "Scares" you?
> Jay, he's a character in a book.  Assume Ivanhoe and Long John Silver
> have both died of old age, OK? <g>
> Best, R.E.F.
>
>
>
> I've kind of wondered (because I'm curious) - what's the glue for the
> whole saga?
>
> If you're not going to have a central character/s - (whether it be one
> who disappears for a while and then reappears) - what is & where is the
> pivotal focus for you as a writer?
>
> I'm assuming that the fact that Pug (and to a lesser extent Thomas) has
> such longevity in terms of lifespan, is because you see Pug/(Thomas) as
> pivotal character/s? - (Of course, I'm just assuming here).

Right.  You're assuming.

>
> ie:- At the end of the day/in the conclusion, everthing will still hinge
> & revolve around them - as central characters?
>
> Are you just temporarily taking the focus away from them for the time
> being - or are they not to be central characters in the future?
>
> (That's a bit of a ham-fisted way of asking the question - but I think
> you get my drift).
>

You need to read some Mitchener.  I write historical novels, in a way, 
and they're about a place, i.e. Midkemia.

There are no "central" characters, although there are characters who are 
more central than others.

Nakor, for example, is a lot more central to the story so far than Tomas.

Best, R.E.F.
>
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 18:24:40 +0000
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: John <john@crydee.com>
Subject: Re: Pug
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Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com> writes
>
>"Scares" you?
>
>Jay, he's a character in a book.  Assume Ivanhoe and Long John Silver 
>have both died of old age, OK? <g>
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>----
Ivanhoe dead ! but he was only on TV the other day :(
-- 
John

john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.

Raymond E Feist Ring
http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm



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From: Larry Scroggins <falling_98@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: what's next?
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 10:59:26 -0800 (PST)
From: Larry Scroggins <falling_98@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: what's next?
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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OK, good to know.  So let me get this straight... You are an American
author living in San Diego, CA.  The public schools in Texas don't focus
much on geography, but I'm pretty sure California is in the United States.
 So we've established that you're American.  Your main fanbase, basically
because there are more of us here than in the UK, is in the United States,
but the Brits and the French get to read your stuff first.  What's up with
that?


--- Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com> wrote:
> 
> On Thursday, February 14, 2002, at 08:36 AM, Larry Scroggins wrote:
> 
> > It's still early morning, for me at least, so I can't be held 
> > responsible
> > for asking stupid questions. So here goes...  Do you mean that the 
> > people
> > in the UK get Talon in Sept 2002 and we in the US won't get it until 
> > March
> > 2003?
> >
> 
> Yes, that's exactly what it means.
> Have a cup of coffee next time, eh? <g>
> 
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
> 
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
> stupidity.
> 


=====
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Larry Scroggins

__________________________________________________
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Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 14:06:06 EST
Subject: Re: Pug
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*** EOOH ***
From: Gkhd11a@aol.com
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 14:06:06 EST
Subject: Re: Pug
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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Umm, ya, it's pretty hard to write to order.  I'm sure Feist writes what he 
would love to read and hope it sells.  To try to do otherwise inevitably 
makes the book worse.  But I think sometimes Ray forgetts that we are the 
one's writing his pay check.  Ray, if you continue to write books of the 
Krondor series calibler, two things will happen.  1. The people who write 
proffesional reviews will say it's great because of the quality of the 
writing.
2.  Your fans will hate it because despite better and better style of 
writting, the books will suck because of weaker than normal characters and 
plot- in comparison to Ray's first books.

If what I just said happends, Ray gets a lot smaller paycheck.  Oh and the 
biggest reason the Krondor books sold well is because of your previous 
record, the quality of Betrayal at Krondor, and because of editorial reviews. 
 Your running on empty...

Not to say that you will continue to write Krondor caliber, I read Honoured 
Enemy and it was the best book I have read (from feist) since Rage of a 
Demond King.  kudos to Feist!

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Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 14:17:11 EST
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From: Gkhd11a@aol.com
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 14:17:11 EST
Subject: Re: Pug
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Opps, forgot to say kudos to William Foster (I think that's his last name).  
My bad.  And just to clear things up, I was not trying to be insulting in 
anyway in my last Re: Pug.

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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 14:19:35 -0500
Subject: Re: Pug
From: Bob Montgomery <dante@kingcon.com>
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*raises hand meekly*

Um, Ray, I'm perfectly satisfied with the books... really, I mean, I 
couldn't be more satisfied. I've enjoyed them all, and I have no 
complaints about the books, who's in them or how you write. They've 
enriched my life, broadened my horizons and given me hours and hours of 
enjoyment. You've introduced, and developed thoroughly, many characters 
that have touched my heart, and I can't say I recall any character 
development or plotlines that felt forced... things occurred because 
they did, and it has always felt like a natural, organic process. In a 
sense, you are, indeed, writing historical fiction. While Pug sometimes 
feels like a primary character, at the same time he is expendable, which 
makes him even more real; such is the case with all of your characters, 
at least in my eyes. Bravo!

Now, this business of having to buy the books in England isn't terribly 
satisfying, but that's a whole other keg of spirits we already gone over 
a hundred times <G>

BTW, I don't know if you caught my note a couple days ago, but hope 
you're feeling better, Ray, and got to enjoy the Super Bowl! Great game, 
eh? I can't say I even like either team, but at least it wasn't a blow 
out :)

take care


On Thursday, February 14, 2002, at 01:30 PM, Raymond Feist wrote:

> The only person I know who is satisfied is me, so that's what I do.
>
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
>
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
> stupidity.
>
>



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Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 14:31:55 EST
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Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 14:31:55 EST
Subject: Re: what's next?
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Authors have very little (or nothing?) to say when there books are published, 
publishers do. (I think.)

Jaszon



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*** EOOH ***
From: Adam012882@cs.com
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 14:43:28 EST
Subject: Re: what's next?
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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In a message dated 2/14/02 11:06:24 AM Pacific Standard Time, 
falling_98@yahoo.com writes:


> It's still early morning, for me at least, so I can't be held 
> > > responsible
> > > for asking stupid questions. So here goes...  Do you mean that the 
> > > people
> > > in the UK get Talon in Sept 2002 and we in the US won't get it until 
> > > March
> > > 2003?
> 

but thers an alternative,  amazon.com :-))

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From: "MChaloner" <markchaloner@btinternet.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Pug
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 19:47:18 -0000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "MChaloner" <markchaloner@btinternet.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Pug
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 19:47:18 -0000
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>> I recall a thread where someone said "You can't kill off Pug!" and 
>> REF
>
>> responded with "Wanna bet?" That was awful, I think Pug is by far my 
>> favorite character, and it would kill me to see him die. I think 
>> having him move off (a la Macros leaving after Sethanon) would be a 
>> better end for him, but the thought of him dying scares me.
>>
> "Scares" you?
> Jay, he's a character in a book.  Assume Ivanhoe and Long John Silver 
> have both died of old age, OK? <g>
> Best, R.E.F.
>
> I've kind of wondered (because I'm curious) - what's the glue for the 
> whole saga?
> If you're not going to have a central character/s - (whether it be one

> who disappears for a while and then reappears) - what is & where is 
> the pivotal focus for you as a writer?
> I'm assuming that the fact that Pug (and to a lesser extent Thomas) 
> has such longevity in terms of lifespan, is because you see 
> Pug/(Thomas) as pivotal character/s? - (Of course, I'm just assuming 
> here).

Right.  You're assuming.

> ie:- At the end of the day/in the conclusion, everthing will still 
> hinge & revolve around them - as central characters?
> Are you just temporarily taking the focus away from them for the time 
> being - or are they not to be central characters in the future?
> (That's a bit of a ham-fisted way of asking the question - but I think

> you get my drift).

You need to read some Mitchener.  I write historical novels, in a way, 
and they're about a place, i.e. Midkemia.
There are no "central" characters, although there are characters who are

more central than others.
Nakor, for example, is a lot more central to the story so far than
Tomas.
Best, R.E.F.


Who's Mitchener? I take it he's a historical author?

Mark ;-)



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Subject: Question for Ray or anyone who knows?
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 15:18:59 -0500
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Rich" <richse@eden.rutgers.edu>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Question for Ray or anyone who knows?
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 15:18:59 -0500
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    Is there a difference in how much money you (Ray) make from the
books sold in the UK and books sold in the US.  Bascially I mean are
you losing or making money by the US fans not being able to buy books
in the US?  Not counting sales/discounts because I know sales would
come into play becuase when I bought HE in the UK I got it for less
then I would have paid here not including S&H.  Just over all are the
royalties better there (UK) or here (US)?

Thanks,
-Rich-

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Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 15:28:27 EST
Subject: Re: Pug
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From: Valheru22@aol.com
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 15:28:27 EST
Subject: Re: Pug
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PLEASE RAY DO NOT KILL TOMAS!!!!!!! HE IS BY FAR THE BEST! You should make a 
book on like Tomas and Pug. A series of advenures with them that would be 
awsome!
-Chance



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From: Valheru22@aol.com
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 15:33:59 EST
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In a message dated 2/14/2002 11:24:19 AM Pacific Standard Time, 
Gkhd11a@aol.com writes:


> Opps, forgot to say kudos to William Foster (I think that's his last name).  
> My bad.  And just to clear things up, I was not trying to be insulting in 
> anyway in my last Re: Pug. 

I have a question. Excuse my ignorance, but what is a "Kudo"?

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I think Ray did this already.  Those books were called Magician,
Silverthorn, and A Darkness at Sethanon. (g)

Ray has said on several occasions that he reserves the right to kill off
ANY character, so begging him to spare character X will do you no good.
You'll just have to keep reading the books to find out who survives.
Similarly, suggesting what writing project he should do next is futile, as
he will continue to write what he wants, as is his prerogative.

Charles

On Thu, 14 Feb 2002 Valheru22@aol.com wrote:

> PLEASE RAY DO NOT KILL TOMAS!!!!!!! HE IS BY FAR THE BEST! You should make a 
> book on like Tomas and Pug. A series of advenures with them that would be 
> awsome!
> -Chance
> 
> 



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 13:21:22 -0800
Subject: Re: what's next?
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Thursday, February 14, 2002, at 10:27 AM, Western Rhythm wrote:

> When is Conclave of Shadows Due?

Talon of the Silver Hawk will be out this fall in the UK, Spring in the 
US; King of Foxes will be out one year later.

>
> can't wait for the books, its always an excuse to take a break from 
> work!!
> oh and we in aus get it first gotta love that.
>
> what are those two books about?
>

Close to $30 each, I would think.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 13:22:26 -0800
Subject: Re: what's next?
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
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On Thursday, February 14, 2002, at 10:59 AM, Larry Scroggins wrote:

> OK, good to know.  So let me get this straight... You are an American
> author living in San Diego, CA.  The public schools in Texas don't focus
> much on geography, but I'm pretty sure California is in the United 
> States.
>  So we've established that you're American.  Your main fanbase, 
> basically
> because there are more of us here than in the UK, is in the United 
> States,
> but the Brits and the French get to read your stuff first.  What's up 
> with
> that?
>

It's about business.

It's always about business.

It's about my US publisher having a different perspective on what they 
want to do than my UK publisher.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 13:24:24 -0800
Subject: Re: Pug
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Thursday, February 14, 2002, at 11:47 AM, MChaloner wrote:

>>> I recall a thread where someone said "You can't kill off Pug!" and
>>> REF
>>
>>> responded with "Wanna bet?" That was awful, I think Pug is by far my
>>> favorite character, and it would kill me to see him die. I think
>>> having him move off (a la Macros leaving after Sethanon) would be a
>>> better end for him, but the thought of him dying scares me.
>>>
>> "Scares" you?
>> Jay, he's a character in a book.  Assume Ivanhoe and Long John Silver
>> have both died of old age, OK? <g>
>> Best, R.E.F.
>>
>> I've kind of wondered (because I'm curious) - what's the glue for the
>> whole saga?
>> If you're not going to have a central character/s - (whether it be one
>
>> who disappears for a while and then reappears) - what is & where is
>> the pivotal focus for you as a writer?
>> I'm assuming that the fact that Pug (and to a lesser extent Thomas)
>> has such longevity in terms of lifespan, is because you see
>> Pug/(Thomas) as pivotal character/s? - (Of course, I'm just assuming
>> here).
>
> Right.  You're assuming.
>
>> ie:- At the end of the day/in the conclusion, everthing will still
>> hinge & revolve around them - as central characters?
>> Are you just temporarily taking the focus away from them for the time
>> being - or are they not to be central characters in the future?
>> (That's a bit of a ham-fisted way of asking the question - but I think
>
>> you get my drift).
>
> You need to read some Mitchener.  I write historical novels, in a way,
> and they're about a place, i.e. Midkemia.
> There are no "central" characters, although there are characters who are
>
> more central than others.
> Nakor, for example, is a lot more central to the story so far than
> Tomas.
> Best, R.E.F.
>
>
> Who's Mitchener? I take it he's a historical author?
>
> Mark ;-)
>
>
>
>

Yup.  James A. Mitchner.  Wrote wonderful books about places.  His best 
were Hawaii, The Source, and Centennial, IMHO.  I also enjoyed 
Cheasapeak.    The place is the main character of each novel.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 13:24:48 -0800
Subject: Re: Question for Ray or anyone who knows?
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 13:24:48 -0800
Subject: Re: Question for Ray or anyone who knows?
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
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On Thursday, February 14, 2002, at 12:18 PM, Rich wrote:

>     Is there a difference in how much money you (Ray) make from the 
> books sold in the UK and books sold in the US.  Bascially I mean 
> are you losing or making money by the US fans not being able to buy 
> books in the US?  Not counting sales/discounts because I know sales 
> would come into play becuase when I bought HE in the UK I got it for 
> less then I would have paid here not including S&H.  Just over all are 
> the royalties better there (UK) or here (US)? 
>  
> Thanks,
> -Rich-
>
>

I lose a little bit, but it's trivial.

Best,R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.

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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 09:07:49 +1100 (EST)
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<snip>
» >
» > what are those two books about?
» >
» 
» Close to $30 each, I would think.
» 
» Best, R.E.F.
» ----

Ray, that has got to be one of the best quotables I've seen in quite some time 
:)

-- David Smith



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From: "Dave Curran" <dave@davecurran.demon.co.uk>
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><snip>
>» >
>» > what are those two books about?
>» >
>» 
>» Close to $30 each, I would think.
>» 
>» Best, R.E.F.
>» ----
>
>Ray, that has got to be one of the best quotables I've seen in quite some time 
>:)
>
>-- David Smith


I thought it was funny too.

A couple of years ago I asked my friend what he was doing the previous
night... 
He replied "one hundred and thirty" with a smile... and carried on talking.
"What?"
"Miles per hour!" [with a smug smile]
He was gloating over his new sports car!

This (and a grin) came to mind immediately on reading Rays comment.

...Dave... 

Success is the journey, not the destination.
Remember to enjoy today!

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Subject: Re: Pug
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Jay" <res0ibjw@verizon.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Pug
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 16:17:24 -0800
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I dont mean that it scares me as that it physically frightens me. I'm
referring to the emotions you get when reading any good book. I've grown
attached to him and would not want to see him die. It scares me that some
day I might have to read a passage that he's killed off :-)

> "Scares" you?
>
> Jay, he's a character in a book.  Assume Ivanhoe and Long John Silver
> have both died of old age, OK? <g>
>
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----



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>From: "Jay" <res0ibjw@verizon.net>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
>Subject: Re: Pug
>Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 23:53:13 -0800
>
>I recall a thread where someone said "You can't kill off Pug!" and REF
>responded with "Wanna bet?" That was awful, I think Pug is by far my
>favorite character, and it would kill me to see him die. I think having him
>move off (a la Macros leaving after Sethanon) would be a better end for 
>him,
>but the thought of him dying scares me.
>

To be honest: I'd rather see him death then dissapearing.

The "bible" of modern fantasy is the Lord of the Ring series. In the end 
Frodo leaves the continent of Middle-Earth and you'll never hear of him 
again.

At that moment, I felt betrayed. You imagined his journey in front, you felt 
emotional connected to the character. And he leaves the story without any 
info about his further life. I felt like a part of me was gone.

So I'd rather see a "he left and lived happily ever after" or he dies, then 
the same trick Tolkien did in his book.

(It seems that Tolkien ripped this scene off from "Le Mort d'Arthur", where 
the wounded King Arthur sails to Avalon.)

Greetings,

Tjeerd

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From: "Tjeerd aka Syrion" <how_news@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Pug (+ image)
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 00:44:24 +0000
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From: "Tjeerd aka Syrion" <how_news@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Pug (+ image)
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 00:44:24 +0000
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Not really computer generated, but I think it'll look like the attached 
image.

Tjeerd


>From: Gkhd11a@aol.com
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
>Subject: Re: Pug
>Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 19:12:35 EST
>
>You know, if Feist wrote about him as much as you guys want, we would all 
>get
>boered of him.  IMO, that would be worse than just keeping things the way
>they are, and will be.  But Pug and Tomas are great characters.  It would 
>be
>pretty cool to see a computer generated scene where Pug and Tomas got into 
>a
>fight- with there strenths as they are at the end of the Riftwar.


_________________________________________________________________
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From: "Tjeerd aka Syrion" <how_news@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Pug
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 00:53:28 +0000
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From: "Tjeerd aka Syrion" <how_news@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Pug
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 00:53:28 +0000
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"Kudos" means something like "My compliments" or "Bravo!" (altough the last 
is more European)

(Correct me if I'm wrong, English isn't my native language.)

Tjeerd

>From: Valheru22@aol.com
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
>Subject: Re: Pug
>Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 15:33:59 EST
>
>In a message dated 2/14/2002 11:24:19 AM Pacific Standard Time,
>Gkhd11a@aol.com writes:
>
>
> > Opps, forgot to say kudos to William Foster (I think that's his last 
>name).
> > My bad.  And just to clear things up, I was not trying to be insulting 
>in
> > anyway in my last Re: Pug.
>
>I have a question. Excuse my ignorance, but what is a "Kudo"?


_________________________________________________________________
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From: "Tjeerd aka Syrion" <how_news@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: website
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 01:07:23 +0000
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From: "Tjeerd aka Syrion" <how_news@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: website
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 01:07:23 +0000
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I dunno if there is going to be an official site, as far as i know there 
isn't one at the moment.

Check out http://www.crydee.com and http://feist.hallofworlds.net in the 
meanwhile.

Greetings,

Tjeerd

>From: "Western Rhythm" <info@westernrhythm.com>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
>Subject: website
>Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 11:41:21 +0800
>
>Is there a Website up and running for Mr Feist? (a new one) like krondor or 
>bittersea or something. I remember ages ago there was going to be one made, 
>did it eventuate?
>
>cheers
>


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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Dan Lorey <dl24@cornell.edu>
Subject: ADMIN: Re: Pug (+ image)
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Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 20:22:25 -0500
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Dan Lorey <dl24@cornell.edu>
Subject: ADMIN: Re: Pug (+ image)
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Folks,

  Just a friendly reminder that binaries of all types, especially large
image files, are NOT to be posted to the list. This is not a binaries
mailing list, and most people here do not appreciate receiving such files.

  Dan Lorey - Feistfans-L List Owner


At 00:44 2/15/02 +0000, "Tjeerd aka Syrion" <how_news@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Not really computer generated, but I think it'll look like the attached 
>image.
>
>Tjeerd



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References: <CB443E2A-2190-11D6-AC32-003065A8A644@bittersea.com>
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Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 18:34:18 -0700
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: what's next?
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Raymond Feist wrote:
> 
> > what are those two books about?
> 
> Close to $30 each, I would think.

If the upcoming books sell as well as Honoured Enemy did, then
Amazon.co.uk could get them up to 50% off rather quickly.

So even with it having to be shipped from UK I think I paid a total of
around $20 for HE. A helluva deal :)

Craig J. Ries



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Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 18:36:38 -0700
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Pug (contains Lord of the rings spoiler)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Tjeerd aka Syrion wrote:
> 
> (It seems that Tolkien ripped this scene off from "Le Mort d'Arthur", where
> the wounded King Arthur sails to Avalon.)

I don't know about any scene being "ripped" from somewhere else, but
Tolkien was a scholar and had translated works such as Beowulf. As such,
alot of LotR was based off, in part, alot of older works that involved
mythical figures, such as Beowulf and King Arthur.

Craig J. Ries



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Subject: RE: Pug
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 12:59:02 +1100
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Jeff Weidemann" <jeff@pronto.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Pug
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 12:59:02 +1100
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[snip]
> but the thought of him dying scares me.
>>
> "Scares" you?
> Jay, he's a character in a book.  Assume Ivanhoe and Long John Silver
> have both died of old age, OK? <g>
> Best, R.E.F.
>

Ray, you may have forgotten magician was a long time ago, but Pug was/is
easy to identify with.  Remembering the scene, where Pug is chosen by
Kulgan... he was shuffling about, (thinking pick me!, pick me!), haven't we
all been subject to that!

Pug is just character in a book, but he may just carry a little of our
imagination with him.



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 20:15:43 -0600
From: Bret Robideaux <bretr@alliances.org>
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Trivial? Wow ... I never thought I'd hear that from you Ray!

I'll tell you something, I get paid pretty well (for a salaried, 
technical employee). But, I suspect that 300,000 books * $trivial is 
more than I make in a year. That is unless you're talking something 
really trivial, like a penny a book (which adds up to $3,000) ... but 
get into the dime a book range you're talking $30,000. Ok, less than I 
make in a year, but hefty enough not to sneeze at.

Bret

Raymond Feist wrote:

> 
> On Thursday, February 14, 2002, at 12:18 PM, Rich wrote:
> 
>         Is there a difference in how much money you (Ray) make from the
>     books sold in the UK and books sold in the US.  Bascially I mean
>     are you losing or making money by the US fans not being able to buy
>     books in the US?  Not counting sales/discounts because I know sales
>     would come into play becuase when I bought HE in the UK I got it for
>     less then I would have paid here not including S&H.  Just over all
>     are the royalties better there (UK) or here (US)? 
>      
>     Thanks,
>     -Rich-
> 
> 
> 
> I lose a little bit, but it's trivial.
> 
> Best,R.E.F.
> ----
> 
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
> stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 18:35:14 -0800
Subject: Re: Question for Ray or anyone who knows?
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
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On Thursday, February 14, 2002, at 06:15 PM, Bret Robideaux wrote:

> Trivial? Wow ... I never thought I'd hear that from you Ray!
>
> I'll tell you something, I get paid pretty well (for a salaried, 
> technical employee). But, I suspect that 300,000 books * $trivial is 
> more than I make in a year. That is unless you're talking something 
> really trivial, like a penny a book (which adds up to $3,000) ... but 
> get into the dime a book range you're talking $30,000. Ok, less than I 
> make in a year, but hefty enough not to sneeze at.
>

Huh?

Breath slowly and think calm thoughts.

What I meant by "trivial" was the difference between what I make from a 
copy sold in the US vs. what I make from an American buying a British 
copy.  I make SLIGHTLY more from the US edition, but the differences is 
trivial.  We're talking about 1,500 books sold from Amazon.co.uk to the 
US that would otherwise buy the US edition.  Net loss to me is maybe 
$500.  Ask me how much I care about making an extra $500 two years from 
now. <g>

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 21:13:18 -0600
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<deep breath in>
<deep breath out> ahhhhhhhh

OK, 1500 books is a far cry from 300,000 (IIRC, you mentioned once that 
Rage did that in 1st Ed. You didn't mention reprints and paper back). I 
was assuming you were at least breaking six figures of Honored Enemy 
coming back to the US through Amazon UK. Obviously, I overestimated the 
rabidness of your fan base outside of this list *grin*

Hmmmmmm ...

Bret (... who just did the arithmatic in his head).

Raymond Feist wrote:

> 
> On Thursday, February 14, 2002, at 06:15 PM, Bret Robideaux wrote:
> 
>> Trivial? Wow ... I never thought I'd hear that from you Ray!
>>
>> I'll tell you something, I get paid pretty well (for a salaried, 
>> technical employee). But, I suspect that 300,000 books * $trivial is 
>> more than I make in a year. That is unless you're talking something 
>> really trivial, like a penny a book (which adds up to $3,000) ... but 
>> get into the dime a book range you're talking $30,000. Ok, less than I 
>> make in a year, but hefty enough not to sneeze at.
>>
> 
> Huh?
> 
> Breath slowly and think calm thoughts.
> 
> What I meant by "trivial" was the difference between what I make from a 
> copy sold in the US vs. what I make from an American buying a British 
> copy.  I make SLIGHTLY more from the US edition, but the differences is 
> trivial.  We're talking about 1,500 books sold from Amazon.co.uk to the 
> US that would otherwise buy the US edition.  Net loss to me is maybe 
> $500.  Ask me how much I care about making an extra $500 two years from 
> now. <g>
> 
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
> 
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
> stupidity.
> 



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*** EOOH ***
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On Thu, 14 February 2002, Raymond Feist wrote


> 
> Yup.  James A. Mitchner.  Wrote wonderful books about places.  His best 
> were Hawaii, The Source, and Centennial, IMHO.  I also enjoyed 
> Cheasapeak.    The place is the main character of each novel.
> 
> Best, R.E.F.


  Mitchner is good, and another author that uses the
place as the main character is Edward Rutherfurd.  

 When I read 'London', I had a new map of the City and
followed the action as the centuries passed. Same with
Sarum and The Forest. If I ever get to England, I
really  want to get to some of the places I read about
in the books. 
  
Anita

  
'Every happy ending needs to have a start.'

___________________________________________________________________
Join the Space Program: Get FREE E-mail at http://www.space.com.



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From: "Terri Lyn Layman" <terrilyn@ameritech.net>
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Subject: Final Chapter?
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Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: "Terri Lyn Layman" <terrilyn@ameritech.net>
To: "FeistList \(E-mail\)" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Final Chapter?
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Ray,

Another one of my favorite authors (JK Rowling - so shoot me for becoming
hooked on a kid's series!  I needed to escape for a couple days after my
grandfather died, and a friend lent me the first two books.  Bad friend! Bad
friend!) has written the final chapter in her book series. (She was on A&E's
biography, and held up the folder it's in.  She was all freaky over showing
us the OUTSIDE of the folder!  OI!)  I was wondering, do you have a "final
chapter" for Midkemia, or do you see it as being an organic work and that
eventually you'll allow others to write your world for you while you slip
off into retirement?  Or, alternatively, do you plan to do like JRR Tolkien
(Which I'm currently trying to ingest.  He's just not that "readable" an
author.  He's a good storyteller, but a horrible read.), and Douglas Adams
and leave half finished works for us to ponder over after you're gone?

-TerriLyn (Who thought of this because of the discussion of character death.
JKR's said that a "key character" is going to die in book 5, causing all us
fans much speculation and fear over Hermionie.)



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----- Original Message -----
From: "Terri Lyn Layman" <terrilyn@ameritech.net>
To: "FeistList (E-mail) (FEISTFANS-L)" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2002 8:23 PM
Subject: Final Chapter?


> Ray,
>
> Another one of my favorite authors (JK Rowling - so shoot me for becoming
> hooked on a kid's series!  I needed to escape for a couple days after my
> grandfather died, and a friend lent me the first two books.  Bad friend! Bad
> friend!) has written the final chapter in her book series. (She was on A&E's
> biography, and held up the folder it's in.  She was all freaky over showing
> us the OUTSIDE of the folder!  OI!)  I was wondering, do you have a "final
> chapter" for Midkemia, or do you see it as being an organic work and that
> eventually you'll allow others to write your world for you while you slip
> off into retirement?

I dont think Ray can really have a final chapter since his books arent a
single story like the Harry Potter series. Im just hoping Robert Jordan has
a final chapter written incase something happens between now and 2025 when
the final wheel of time book is released.

Andrew



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From: "Joe S." <diamondjoesmith@yahoo.com>
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Subject: RE: Pug
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 22:51:19 -0600
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From: "Joe S." <diamondjoesmith@yahoo.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Pug
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 22:51:19 -0600
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When I read that post from Ray, I took it as very toungue in cheek. Not
that he was saying he had plans to actually kill off Pug (though he very
well might) but more or less replying sarcastically that Pug was his
character, and if he wanted, he could kill him off....*G*

Of course this was all IMHO, and not based on any kind of facts. :)

I just get the idea that Ray can be quite cheeky at most posts that
deserve some demonfire level flames. :)

Joseph Smith

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu 
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Jay
> Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2002 1:53 AM
> To: FEISTFANS-L
> Subject: Re: Pug
> 
> 
> I recall a thread where someone said "You can't kill off 
> Pug!" and REF responded with "Wanna bet?" That was awful, I 
> think Pug is by far my favorite character, and it would kill 
> me to see him die. I think having him move off (a la Macros 
> leaving after Sethanon) would be a better end for him, but 
> the thought of him dying scares me.
> 



_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 20:52:28 -0800
Subject: Re: Final Chapter?
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Thursday, February 14, 2002, at 08:23 PM, Terri Lyn Layman wrote:

> Ray,
>
> Another one of my favorite authors (JK Rowling - so shoot me for 
> becoming
> hooked on a kid's series!  I needed to escape for a couple days after my
> grandfather died, and a friend lent me the first two books.  Bad 
> friend! Bad
> friend!) has written the final chapter in her book series. (She was on 
> A&E's
> biography, and held up the folder it's in.  She was all freaky over 
> showing
> us the OUTSIDE of the folder!  OI!)  I was wondering, do you have a 
> "final
> chapter" for Midkemia, or do you see it as being an organic work and 
> that
> eventually you'll allow others to write your world for you while you 
> slip
> off into retirement?  Or, alternatively, do you plan to do like JRR 
> Tolkien
> (Which I'm currently trying to ingest.  He's just not that "readable" an
> author.  He's a good storyteller, but a horrible read.), and Douglas 
> Adams
> and leave half finished works for us to ponder over after you're gone?
>
> -TerriLyn (Who thought of this because of the discussion of character 
> death.
> JKR's said that a "key character" is going to die in book 5, causing 
> all us
> fans much speculation and fear over Hermionie.)
>
>
>
>

The "final chapter" for Midkemia is when I get tired of writing about it.

I can tell you I know the story (roughly) of the last riftwar, but 
obviously Midkemian history carries on after that.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 20:50:47 -0800
Subject: Re: Question for Ray or anyone who knows?
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On Thursday, February 14, 2002, at 07:13 PM, Bret Robideaux wrote:

> <deep breath in>
> <deep breath out> ahhhhhhhh
>
> OK, 1500 books is a far cry from 300,000 (IIRC, you mentioned once that 
> Rage did that in 1st Ed. You didn't mention reprints and paper back). I 
> was assuming you were at least breaking six figures of Honored Enemy 
> coming back to the US through Amazon UK. Obviously, I overestimated the 
> rabidness of your fan base outside of this list *grin*

Huh?  I've never sold 300,000 copies of anything on a first printing.  
It may have been at the time Rage had hit 300,000 in print total 
editions over the long haul.

UK hardcovers are usually in the 50,000+ range.  I expect that to go up 
with Talon.

Paperbacks in the 150,000 range.

Now, Magician, to cite an example, has over 1,000,000 books in print in 
the UK, but the thing's been in print 20 years!

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
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That series already exists....it's called the Riftwar series consisting
of Magician (Apprentice & Master in some cases), Silverthorn, and A
Darkness at Sethanon. They were the pivotal characters in those books.

While they may still be around by the end of the series, they may not
necessarily be pivotal. A lot happens on that tiny little globe called
Midkemia, and not all of it involves those two. :)

By the way, my tongue WAS implanted firmly in cheek. Any flames can be
sent off list, not on. ;)

Joseph Allan Smith

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu 
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Valheru22@aol.com
> Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2002 2:28 PM
> To: FEISTFANS-L
> Subject: Re: Pug
> 
> 
> PLEASE RAY DO NOT KILL TOMAS!!!!!!! HE IS BY FAR THE BEST! 
> You should make a 
> book on like Tomas and Pug. A series of advenures with them 
> that would be 
> awsome!
> -Chance
> 



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Subject: RE: what's next?
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 23:03:12 -0600
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From: "Joe S." <diamondjoesmith@yahoo.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
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> > what are those two books about?
> >
> 
> Close to $30 each, I would think.
> 
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
> 

*laughing out loud* Any way to dodge spoiler questions, right Ray? *G*

Joseph Allan Smith



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Ray have you ever thought about writing books on the Chaos Wars
or the Valheru.

_________________________________________________________________
Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
http://www.hotmail.com



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Ray have you ever thought about writing books on the Chaos Wars
or the Valheru.

_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com



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At 03:33 PM 2/14/02 -0500, Valheru22@aol.com wrote:
>In a message dated 2/14/2002 11:24:19 AM Pacific Standard Time, Gkhd11a@aol.com writes:
>
>
>>Opps, forgot to say kudos to William Foster (I think that's his last name).  My bad.  And just to clear things up, I was not trying to be insulting in anyway in my last Re: Pug. 
>
>
>I have a question. Excuse my ignorance, but what is a "Kudo"? 

A small harmless insect, in the same family as the iozhik.  Prevalent in parts of west-central
Russia (on the western side of the Urals, I mean.  Tartarstan).

rip



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At 12:59 PM 2/15/02 +1100, Jeff Weidemann wrote:
>Ray, you may have forgotten magician was a long time ago, but Pug was/is
>easy to identify with.  Remembering the scene, where Pug is chosen by
>Kulgan... he was shuffling about, (thinking pick me!, pick me!), haven't we
>all been subject to that!

Um.  You need go reread Magician.  Pug was most certainly not
thinking 'Pick me!'.  He was just mentally destroyed, because
the "choosing was over" and he hadn't been picked.  

Then Kulgan stepped to the fore, and asked if he might also
choose...the rest, as they say, is history.

rip



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Methinks someone needs to go read the FAQ before posting again.

Here's the link, Mic,
http://www.psihawk.com/feist/

rip
-- 
How many dice you got?

At 12:41 AM 2/15/02 -0600, Mic Olafson wrote:


>Ray have you ever thought about writing books on the Chaos Wars
>or the Valheru.
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com



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From: "Stuart Maher" <stuart.maher@ntlworld.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Pug
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 09:55:41 -0000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Stuart Maher" <stuart.maher@ntlworld.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Pug
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 09:55:41 -0000
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Actually, as you mentioned that, My girlfriend was reading Darkness at
Sethanon and wondered if when writing about the dog and looking for a name
you looked around your desk, saw some bluetack and went from there!!

Stu


-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Raymond Feist
>Sent: 14 February 2002 01:56
>To: FEISTFANS-L
>Subject: Re: Pug
>
>
>
>On Wednesday, February 13, 2002, at 04:38 PM, Tim Nicholas wrote:
>
>> Hello Ray,
>> Just wondering how you pick names for characters. Do you have any
>> kind of process, or do you just pick one essentially at random
>> (whatever sounds good at the time).
>> Are their any names that have any significance or interesting
>>
>
>They just come to me.  Kasumi, for example, was a twist on Kazumi, a car
>salesman I met once.  I'm dating a girl named Leyla, so there's a Lela
>in the next book.
>
>Other times they just pop into my head.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
>stupidity.
>


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From: "Stuart Maher" <stuart.maher@ntlworld.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: what's next?
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 10:27:25 -0000
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From: "Stuart Maher" <stuart.maher@ntlworld.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: what's next?
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 10:27:25 -0000
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Probably a silly question. I know less than nothing about book publishing.
But can you not get a publisher who works on both continents?

Stu

-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Raymond Feist
>Sent: 14 February 2002 21:22
>To: FEISTFANS-L
>Subject: Re: what's next?
>
>
>
>On Thursday, February 14, 2002, at 10:59 AM, Larry Scroggins wrote:
>
>> OK, good to know.  So let me get this straight... You are an American
>> author living in San Diego, CA.  The public schools in Texas don't focus
>> much on geography, but I'm pretty sure California is in the United
>> States.
>>  So we've established that you're American.  Your main fanbase,
>> basically
>> because there are more of us here than in the UK, is in the United
>> States,
>> but the Brits and the French get to read your stuff first.  What's up
>> with
>> that?
>>
>
>It's about business.
>
>It's always about business.
>
>It's about my US publisher having a different perspective on what they
>want to do than my UK publisher.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
>stupidity.
>


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From: Al Burl <al.burl@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: Re: ADMIN: Re: Pug (+ image)
In-Reply-To: <2.2.32.20020215012225.01109ca4@postoffice2.mail.cornell.ed
 u>
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Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 12:14:53 +0000
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Al Burl <al.burl@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: Re: ADMIN: Re: Pug (+ image)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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If you want to show pictures to the list, it's usually better to upload it 
to personal web space, and then send the URL to the list.

Al

At 20:22 14/02/2002 -0500, Dan Lorey wrote:
>Folks,
>
>   Just a friendly reminder that binaries of all types, especially large
>image files, are NOT to be posted to the list. This is not a binaries
>mailing list, and most people here do not appreciate receiving such files.
>
>   Dan Lorey - Feistfans-L List Owner
>
>
>At 00:44 2/15/02 +0000, "Tjeerd aka Syrion" <how_news@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >Not really computer generated, but I think it'll look like the attached
> >image.
> >
> >Tjeerd



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Subject: Re: Question for Ray or anyone who knows?
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--- Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com> wrote:
> Huh?  I've never sold 300,000 copies of anything on
> a first printing.  
> It may have been at the time Rage had hit 300,000 in
> print total 
> editions over the long haul.
> 
> UK hardcovers are usually in the 50,000+ range.  I
> expect that to go up 
> with Talon.

Why is it that you expect it to go up?

Best,
~Joshua~


> 
> Paperbacks in the 150,000 range.
> 
> Now, Magician, to cite an example, has over
> 1,000,000 books in print in 
> the UK, but the thing's been in print 20 years!
> 
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
> 
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be
> explained away by 
> stupidity.
> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Got something to say? Say it better with Yahoo! Video Mail 
http://mail.yahoo.com



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Hi Ray,

When you created Mara's character, did you have anyone on your mind, any
oriental or South American woman? I mean, how does she look like, like a
Korean, Japanese or native South American?


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com



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Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 10:41:52 -0600
From: Bret Robideaux <bretr@alliances.org>
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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Question for Ray or anyone who knows?
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Hmmm, well, I guess that's what I get for thinking *shrug* I should stop 
that. Hmmm, are you talking UK only? Or you've never done 300K 1st Eds 
in any market? ... I'm just wondering where on earth I got that number 
from *shrug*

Maybe just wishful thinking on your behalf :)

Bret

Raymond Feist wrote:

> 
> On Thursday, February 14, 2002, at 07:13 PM, Bret Robideaux wrote:
> 
>> OK, 1500 books is a far cry from 300,000 (IIRC, you mentioned once 
>> that Rage did that in 1st Ed. You didn't mention reprints and paper 
>> back). I was assuming you were at least breaking six figures of 
>> Honored Enemy coming back to the US through Amazon UK. Obviously, I 
>> overestimated the rabidness of your fan base outside of this list *grin*
> 
> 
> Huh?  I've never sold 300,000 copies of anything on a first printing.  
> It may have been at the time Rage had hit 300,000 in print total 
> editions over the long haul.
> 
> UK hardcovers are usually in the 50,000+ range.  I expect that to go up 
> with Talon.
> 
> Paperbacks in the 150,000 range.
> 
> Now, Magician, to cite an example, has over 1,000,000 books in print in 
> the UK, but the thing's been in print 20 years!
> 
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
> 
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
> stupidity.
> 



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From: "MChaloner" <markchaloner@btinternet.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Final Chapter?
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 18:10:36 -0000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "MChaloner" <markchaloner@btinternet.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Final Chapter?
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 18:10:36 -0000
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> > <snip>
> > I was wondering, do you have a "final
> > chapter" for Midkemia, or do you see it as being an organic 
> work and 
> > that
> > eventually you'll allow others to write your world for you 
> while you 
> > slip
> > off into retirement?  Or, alternatively, do you plan to do like JRR 
> > Tolkien
> > (Which I'm currently trying to ingest.  He's just not that 
> "readable" an
> > author.  He's a good storyteller, but a horrible read.), 
> and Douglas 
> > Adams
> > and leave half finished works for us to ponder over after 
> you're gone?
> 
> The "final chapter" for Midkemia is when I get tired of 
> writing about it.
> I can tell you I know the story (roughly) of the last riftwar, but 
> obviously Midkemian history carries on after that.
> Best, R.E.F.


Sorry to bring this up again - (but my memory fails me sometimes) -
would you ever consider "keeping Midkemia going" if you got tired of
writing about it, by allowing other authors to write short stories about
Midkemia?
I'm thinking of in a similar way that Philip Jose Farmer did with the
'Riverworld' series of books where he became the editor to other authors
who wrote about 'Riverworld'. (Of course, these were authors writing
under strict parameters that he set down - guidelines to write within so
to speak).

Mark ;-)



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Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 10:50:43 -0800
Subject: Re: new books
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 10:50:43 -0800
Subject: Re: new books
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Thursday, February 14, 2002, at 10:41 PM, Mic Olafson wrote:

>
>
> Ray have you ever thought about writing books on the Chaos Wars
> or the Valheru.
>

I already did, it's called the RIftwar Saga.

Best,R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 10:49:31 -0800
Subject: Odd "bounces."
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: fEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Dan (or anyone else who might know).

I've been getting a rash of messages like this:

|From: webmaster@animenation.org
|Date: Thu Feb 14, 2002  09:00:17 PM US/Pacific
|To: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
|Subject: AnimeNation Email: Undeliverable Message!
|Reply-To: webmaster@animenation.org
|
|This is the Mail program at AnimeNation's Free Anime Email Service.
|
|You are probably receiving this mail because an email from you to one of 
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|include the original headers from the originating email if you can.
|
|
|Regarding your message entitled:
|
|Re: Final Chapter?
|
|I'm afraid I wasn't able to deliver your message
|to 'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)'. Reason: Too many messages.
|
|The full headers are below.
|
|Sorry it didn't work out!
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|Subject: Re: Final Chapter?
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I've cut the text.

The odd thing, those messages are appearing on the list, anyway.

What's up?

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.

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Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 10:52:56 -0800
Subject: Re: Question for Ray or anyone who knows?
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 10:52:56 -0800
Subject: Re: Question for Ray or anyone who knows?
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Friday, February 15, 2002, at 06:53 AM, Joshua Stanton wrote:

>
> --- Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com> wrote:
>> Huh?  I've never sold 300,000 copies of anything on
>> a first printing.
>> It may have been at the time Rage had hit 300,000 in
>> print total
>> editions over the long haul.
>>
>> UK hardcovers are usually in the 50,000+ range.  I
>> expect that to go up
>> with Talon.
>
> Why is it that you expect it to go up?
>
>

Too many reasons to list here, but in short it's the start of a new 
series, it's a "big" book, and the market is ripe for some growth over 
there.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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From: "Paddyjack [ ]" <erykel@lycos.com>
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On Thu, 14 Feb 2002 21:13:18  
 Bret Robideaux wrote:
><deep breath in>
><deep breath out> ahhhhhhhh
>
>OK, 1500 books is a far cry from 300,000 (IIRC, you mentioned once that 
>Rage did that in 1st Ed. You didn't mention reprints and paper back). I 
>was assuming you were at least breaking six figures of Honored Enemy 
>coming back to the US through Amazon UK. Obviously, I overestimated the 
>rabidness of your fan base outside of this list *grin*
>
>Hmmmmmm ...
>
>Bret (... who just did the arithmatic in his head).
>


Well, think about it this way: it is likely that most North American
fans outside this list do not know that 1) HE is in print somewhere
else in the world other than North America, and 2) (which derive from
1) would not know that Amazon.uk existed. Maybe they do not even know
HE exist at all. Unless they see it in stores, they would not
know. And there are those who are afraid to buy online.

Myself, I never realized that there were divisions of Amazon.com in
some countries, before this thing with HE happened. Because of all
this, I'm now aware of another division, Amazon.fr, which allow me to
find french books unavailable here in Quebec :-)

Paddyjack


Check out Cupid School where you will learn from Matchmaker's
best and brightest. Good Luck!

http://ecard.matchmaker.com/cupid0202/cupid0202.html



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 10:53:38 -0800
Subject: Re: 
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
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On Friday, February 15, 2002, at 08:00 AM, Monwar wrote:

> Hi Ray,
>
> When you created Mara's character, did you have anyone on your mind, any
> oriental or South American woman? I mean, how does she look like, like a
> Korean, Japanese or native South American?
>
>
> _________________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
>
>

She looks as she's described in the book.  There was no single model, if 
that's what you're asking.  Janny handled most of the "visuals" given 
she's the artist in the mix.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 10:54:46 -0800
Subject: Re: Final Chapter?
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
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On Friday, February 15, 2002, at 10:10 AM, MChaloner wrote:

>>> <snip>
>>> I was wondering, do you have a "final
>>> chapter" for Midkemia, or do you see it as being an organic
>> work and
>>> that
>>> eventually you'll allow others to write your world for you
>> while you
>>> slip
>>> off into retirement?  Or, alternatively, do you plan to do like JRR
>>> Tolkien
>>> (Which I'm currently trying to ingest.  He's just not that
>> "readable" an
>>> author.  He's a good storyteller, but a horrible read.),
>> and Douglas
>>> Adams
>>> and leave half finished works for us to ponder over after
>> you're gone?
>>
>> The "final chapter" for Midkemia is when I get tired of
>> writing about it.
>> I can tell you I know the story (roughly) of the last riftwar, but
>> obviously Midkemian history carries on after that.
>> Best, R.E.F.
>
>
> Sorry to bring this up again - (but my memory fails me sometimes) -
> would you ever consider "keeping Midkemia going" if you got tired of
> writing about it, by allowing other authors to write short stories about
> Midkemia?
> I'm thinking of in a similar way that Philip Jose Farmer did with the
> 'Riverworld' series of books where he became the editor to other authors
> who wrote about 'Riverworld'. (Of course, these were authors writing
> under strict parameters that he set down - guidelines to write within so
> to speak).
>
> Mark ;-)
>
>
>
>

I doubt it, but never say never, right?  The Legends series is a bit 
like letting others play in my sandbox.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 10:52:06 -0800
Subject: Re: what's next?
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
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On Friday, February 15, 2002, at 02:27 AM, Stuart Maher wrote:

> Probably a silly question. I know less than nothing about book 
> publishing.
> But can you not get a publisher who works on both continents?
>

Yes and no.

My American publisher is owned by the same corporation as my British 
Publisher, HarperCollins.

But each is autonomous.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
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>I've cut the text.
>
>The odd thing, those messages are appearing on the list, anyway.
>
>What's up?
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
>stupidity.

One of the listmembers has an account at that service which is full. It's an 
automatic response from that service. I guess everyone who posts will get 
this the first time. (Maybe the administrator can check out which account 
causes this?)

Greetings,

Tjeerd

_________________________________________________________________
Meld je aan bij de grootste e-mailservice wereldwijd met MSN Hotmail: 
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i tried to unsubscribe. it won't let me. i can't have all this mail sent to 
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Subject: Dwarves & scottish accents
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 22:59:33 -0000
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[Went to see LOTR again last night]

Why do Peter Jackson and Ray Feist both think that dwarves speak with a
scottish accent?

We've got Gimli on one hand and Solon on the other (who has grown up with
the dwarves)


Any ideas/thoughts?


btw - Dolgan's accent is much less pronounced.

BJS
(England)

PS - Have you also noticed how most of the LOTR cast say 'Mordor' in a scots
accent.



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Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 18:08:10 EST
Subject: Re: Question for Ray or anyone who knows?
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From: Gkhd11a@aol.com
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 18:08:10 EST
Subject: Re: Question for Ray or anyone who knows?
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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>On Friday, February 15, 2002, at 06:53 AM, Joshua Stanton wrote:
>
>>
>> --- Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com> wrote:
>>> Huh?  I've never sold 300,000 copies of anything on
>>> a first printing.
>>> It may have been at the time Rage had hit 300,000 in
>>> print total
>>> editions over the long haul.
>>>
>>> UK hardcovers are usually in the 50,000+ range.  I
>>> expect that to go up
>>> with Talon.
>>
>> Why is it that you expect it to go up?
>>
>>
>
>Too many reasons to list here, but in short it's the start of a new 
>series, it's a "big" book, and the market is ripe for some growth over 
>there.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
>stupidity.

Ya, your last big book was Shards of a Broken Crown in 1998, which felt more 
like an big epiloge than a finaly to a great saga- which it was.  Everything 
else has been little sidestorys of the "past". We finaly get to see a major 
new area of Midkemia, an event that has only happened in Magician, Prince of 
the Blood, and The Kings Buccaneer.  

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From: "Michael Gibson" <mike@gibbyco.freeserve.co.uk>
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From: "Michael Gibson" <mike@gibbyco.freeserve.co.uk>
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> i tried to unsubscribe. it won't let me. i can't have all this mail sent to
> me. please unsubscribe me. i didn't sign up for this, someone signed me up
> without my knowing. Don't know why or who.


Someone with access to your mail account, for a start.

To unsub, send an e-mail to:
listproc@cornell.edu

With "UNSUBSCRIBE FEISTFANS-L" as the message body, leaving the subject line
blank.

Mike,
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"I hate odd weeks, and don't get me started on Tuesdays...



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Subject: Re: Dwarves & scottish accents
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From: "Andrew Scott" <a.sc0tt@attbi.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Dwarves & scottish accents
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----- Original Message -----
From: <lists@bjs.org.uk>
> [Went to see LOTR again last night]
>
> Why do Peter Jackson and Ray Feist both think that dwarves speak with a
> scottish accent?
>
> We've got Gimli on one hand and Solon on the other (who has grown up with
> the dwarves)
>
>
> Any ideas/thoughts?
>
i think its somehow linked to their fighting method and the fact that they
like to drink large amounts of alcohal.

Andrew - I still say the house is white...



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 16:43:31 -0700
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Odd "bounces."
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Tjeerd aka Syrion wrote:
> 
> I guess everyone who posts will get this the first time.

I've received it multiple times. :P

> (Maybe the administrator can check out which account causes this?)

Sounds like somebody needs to get booted from the list until they get
their mail sorted out.

Craig J. Ries



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Subject: Re: Odd "bounces."
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Annelize & Tommy" <tommjens@online.no>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Odd "bounces."
Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2002 01:01:15 +0100
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> > I guess everyone who posts will get this the first time.
> 
> I've received it multiple times. :P
> 
> > (Maybe the administrator can check out which account causes this?)
> 
> Sounds like somebody needs to get booted from the list until they get
> their mail sorted out.
> 
> Craig J. Ries
> 
> 

Sounds like someone went on holiday and forgot to unsubscribe ;-)


Totsiens,

Tommy



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 20:12:11 -0500
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Dan Lorey <dl24@cornell.edu>
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At 16:43 2/15/02 -0700, "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net> wrote:
>Tjeerd aka Syrion wrote:
>> 
>> I guess everyone who posts will get this the first time.
>
>I've received it multiple times. :P

  Oddly enough, I've never seen this particular error message, either
from a post I've made or as an error message generated by someone else's
post. In general, error messages about list messages sent to full 
mailboxes end up getting bounced back to me as list owner instead of to 
the person who actually sent the message.


>> (Maybe the administrator can check out which account causes this?)
>
>Sounds like somebody needs to get booted from the list until they get
>their mail sorted out.

  A great idea and a great solution for sure :) Alas, there isn't any
information regarding the specific bad email address in the headers in 
the message Ray forwarded, and there's no one subscribed to the list from
animenation.org. If that site does indeed host 50 domains, I have 
absolutely no clue about which of the great number of free web-based 
email addresses subscribed to the list might be bad. Even if all 
50 domains have some sort of anime theme to their names, my knowledge
of anime is such that I wouldn't know an anime theme if it jumped up 
and bit me ;)

  -Dan



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From: "Monwar" <monwar1982@yahoo.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: OT : Death Gate Cycle
Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2002 11:56:06 +0600
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Monwar" <monwar1982@yahoo.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: OT : Death Gate Cycle
Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2002 11:56:06 +0600
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Has anyone here read the 'Death Gate Cycle'?

Can anyone tell me the synopsis of the series, I mean what's it about? It
has 7 books and totals over 2400 pages.





_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com



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From: "Monwar" <monwar1982@yahoo.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
References: <2.2.32.20020216011211.0075836c@postoffice2.mail.cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Odd "bounces." Why not use Yahoo! groups?
Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2002 12:24:52 +0600
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Monwar" <monwar1982@yahoo.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Odd "bounces." Why not use Yahoo! groups?
Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2002 12:24:52 +0600
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

>   Oddly enough, I've never seen this particular error message, either
> from a post I've made or as an error message generated by someone else's
> post. In general, error messages about list messages sent to full
> mailboxes end up getting bounced back to me as list owner instead of to
> the person who actually sent the message.

Hi Dan,

Just a small suggestion. Why don't you use the Yahoo! groups service? It
never shows this kind of error messages (though if you want, you can see
those in the 'bounced' section) and it archives ALL the messages so new
members can read them all. Like I had an interest about Ray's comments on
the Sept 11 tragedy, but I could not get them. I know there is an archive
maintained by someone but that's Unix based zip files and I would need to
download a lot of files. I have a slow connection.

The Yahoo! Groups also have chat, poll, files, member roster and other
options. I have used it and it is great. Would all of you please consider
the option of using a Yahoo! group? It's very easy to subscribe. Also, if
anyone has a list of e-mail addresses, thousands of people can be subscribed
by the moderator in minutes.

I just created a Feistfans Yahoo group. You can check it out if you want at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/feistfans. The email address is
feistfans@yahoogroups.com.

I can change the ownership to Dan or Ray if they want. But believe me, the
service is great! For example, check the http://groups.yahoo.com/group/quill
site. Look at all those messages archived. You can read every one message
from 4 years back! Also, no error messages. It's much more efficient.

Group name :
feistfans

Group home page :
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/feistfans

Group email :
feistfans@yahoogroups.com

Group Email Addresses

Post message: feistfans@yahoogroups.com
Subscribe:  feistfans-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Unsubscribe:  feistfans-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
List owner:  feistfans-owner@yahoogroups.com

- Monwar


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com



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Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2002 02:46:33 -0500
From: "Paddyjack [ ]" <erykel@lycos.com>
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Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2002 02:46:33 -0500
From: "Paddyjack [ ]" <erykel@lycos.com>
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--

On Sat, 16 Feb 2002 11:56:06  
 Monwar wrote:
>Has anyone here read the 'Death Gate Cycle'?
>
>Can anyone tell me the synopsis of the series, I mean what's it about? It
>has 7 books and totals over 2400 pages.
>
>

I got into that serie with a skeptical mind, but I must admit I got
hooked. Briefly, s long time ago, powerful evil peoples were
imprisoned and the world they were trying to conquer got sundered in
four worlds. Now, these evil peoples escaped the prison and are trying
to conquer again. In the first four book, you explore the 4 worlds,
following one of those "evil" people, and you soon realize that
appearances can be deceiving....

The fifth book was flat IMO, since it was the bridge for the 6th. That
one was really magnificient. I read it very fast, very deeply. The
concluding book (7th) is somewhat thin, but interesting.

So, I think this is a good read.

Paddyjack
>
>
>
>_________________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>


Check out Cupid School where you will learn from Matchmaker's
best and brightest. Good Luck!

http://ecard.matchmaker.com/cupid0202/cupid0202.html



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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: John <john@crydee.com>
Subject: Re: new books
References: <181.3a6ece6.299ed426@aol.com>
 <NGELLDNAEMBGGGHFAJPBMEAMCKAA.mike@gibbyco.freeserve.co.uk>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2002 08:17:27 +0000
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: John <john@crydee.com>
Subject: Re: new books
User-Agent: Turnpike/6.01-Beta-2-U (<x5sqXV$6+zj$GDJXMMY4QwhIW3>)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Michael Gibson <mike@gibbyco.freeserve.co.uk> writes
>> i tried to unsubscribe. it won't let me. i can't have all this mail sent to
>> me. please unsubscribe me. i didn't sign up for this, someone signed me up
>> without my knowing. Don't know why or who.
>
>
>Someone with access to your mail account, for a start.
Not strictly true
I have the ability to unsubscribe almost anyone on this list !
as long as I know their email, which can be seen when they post. Lurkers 
are safe :)

My email software permits me to set my options for
From
Reply to
Sender
This is because it is designed to be used across multi ISP's so 
depending on which mail box I send from, affects the profile I use
-- 
John

john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.

Raymond E Feist Ring
http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm



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From: John <john@crydee.com>
Subject: Re: Odd "bounces." Why not use Yahoo! groups?
References: <2.2.32.20020216011211.0075836c@postoffice2.mail.cornell.edu>
 <006601c1b6b2$a7dd0bc0$2022becb@mufakker>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2002 08:22:09 +0000
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: John <john@crydee.com>
Subject: Re: Odd "bounces." Why not use Yahoo! groups?
User-Agent: Turnpike/6.01-Beta-2-U (<x5sqXV$6+zj$GDJXMMY4QwhIW3>)
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Monwar <monwar1982@yahoo.com> writes
>The Yahoo! Groups also have chat, poll, files, member roster and other
>options. I have used it and it is great. Would all of you please consider
>the option of using a Yahoo! group? It's very easy to subscribe. Also, if
>anyone has a list of e-mail addresses, thousands of people can be subscribed
>by the moderator in minutes.

Also Yahoo are a bit suspect where it comes to email addresses, and they 
took over Webring and messed it all up, by taking control for the 
owners, so personally I don't trust them
-- 
John

john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.

Raymond E Feist Ring
http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2002 03:19:54 -0800
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu, <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
From: LAR <lds627@attbi.com>
Subject: Re: Odd "bounces." Why not use Yahoo! groups?
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There are many reasons not to use Yahoo Groups, the fact that ALL messages 
are archived for some is even one of them. But more importantly we have 
members from all over the world with all kinds of systems and connections. 
This is a pretty straightforward list with little need for the extra 
features of Yahoo. Of course the final decision remains with the list owner 
and Ray.

Larry



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2002 03:21:12 -0800
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: LAR <lds627@attbi.com>
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One last thing, one of the NICE things about this group is that it is 
virtually Ad Free, except for those who use web mail services like yahoo. I 
LIKE that part a lot.

Larry



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From: "Monwar" <monwar1982@yahoo.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
References: <EICKPLJKGFIOIBAA@mailcity.com>
Subject: Re: OT : Death Gate Cycle
Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2002 17:27:40 +0600
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Monwar" <monwar1982@yahoo.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT : Death Gate Cycle
Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2002 17:27:40 +0600
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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> I got into that serie with a skeptical mind, but I must admit I got
>hooked. Briefly, s long time ago, powerful evil peoples were imprisoned and
>the world they were trying to conquer got sundered in four worlds. Now,
>these evil peoples escaped the prison and are trying to conquer again. In
>the first four book, you explore the 4 worlds, following one of those "evil"
>people, and you soon realize that appearances can be deceiving....
>
> The fifth book was flat IMO,  since it was the bridge for the 6th. That
>one was really magnificient. I read it very fast, very deeply. The
>concluding book (7th) is somewhat thin, but interesting.

[NEW]

So it is in no way connected with Dragonlance?


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com



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Subject: Always a drink for Ray
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*** EOOH ***
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Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2002 12:00:03 -0000
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Hi all.
Just a quickie.
My wife has just bought me Magician for the 14th time in 10 years.
Why? Because my copies get so dog eared and I refuse to read
my mint hardback copies.
I have had at least 3-4 copies of Silverthorn and Sethanon and 4-5 of
the Mistress series for the same reasons as Magician.
So Ray if you ever run short of a few bob (cents?) at least you know
you will always be able to by a dram occasionally :-).

Regards Chris
Never attribute to stupidity what can satisfactorily be explained away
by ignorance. (sorry to paraphrase* )
*to repeat (something written or spoken) using different words, often in 
a humorous form (http://dictionary.cambridge.org/)

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From: Erik Trulsson <ertr1013@student.uu.se>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT : Death Gate Cycle
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2002 13:22:22 +0100
From: Erik Trulsson <ertr1013@student.uu.se>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT : Death Gate Cycle
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On Sat, Feb 16, 2002 at 05:27:40PM +0600, Monwar wrote:
> > I got into that serie with a skeptical mind, but I must admit I got
> hooked. Briefly, s long time ago, powerful evil peoples were imprisoned and
> the world they were trying to conquer got sundered in four worlds. Now,
> these evil peoples escaped the prison and are trying to conquer again. In
> the first four book, you explore the 4 worlds, following one of those "evil"
> people, and you soon realize that appearances can be deceiving....
> >
> > The fifth book was flat IMO,  since it was the bridge for the 6th. That
> one was really magnificient. I read it very fast, very deeply. The
> concluding book (7th) is somewhat thin, but interesting.
> 
> [NEW]
> 
> So it is in no way connected with Dragonlance?

Other than being written by the same persons who wrote the first two
Dragonlance trilogies, no.

Granted, there is a certain half-crazy old wizard in the Deathgate
cycle who may, or may not, be the same character as a certain
half-crazy old wizard in Dragonlance, but that probably counts as an
"inside joke" more than anything else.


-- 
<Insert your favourite quote here.>
Erik Trulsson
ertr1013@student.uu.se



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2002 13:46:37 +0100
From: Caranorn Aglaredhel <caranorn@cmdnet.lu>
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Organization: House Phoenix
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Subject: Re: OT : Death Gate Cycle
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No connection other then the authors.

Marc aka Caran...

Monwar wrote:

>>I got into that serie with a skeptical mind, but I must admit I got
>>
>hooked. Briefly, s long time ago, powerful evil peoples were imprisoned and
>the world they were trying to conquer got sundered in four worlds. Now,
>these evil peoples escaped the prison and are trying to conquer again. In
>the first four book, you explore the 4 worlds, following one of those "evil"
>people, and you soon realize that appearances can be deceiving....
>
>>The fifth book was flat IMO,  since it was the bridge for the 6th. That
>>
>one was really magnificient. I read it very fast, very deeply. The
>concluding book (7th) is somewhat thin, but interesting.
>
>[NEW]
>
>So it is in no way connected with Dragonlance?
>
>
>_________________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>




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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2002 13:35:08 +0100
From: Caranorn Aglaredhel <caranorn@cmdnet.lu>
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Organization: House Phoenix
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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Dwarves & scottish accents
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

To me dwarves speak swiss german. Can't even say why, just always 
imagined them up in that part of the alps (and I think some of the 
germanic myth about dwarves and giants would fit as the origins of 
fantasy dwarves too).

The scotish accent on the other hand has always been a specific human 
accent to me (unfortunatelly my elven characters speak it occasionally, 
but they have an excuse).

Then again, I haven't met any scotsmen who spoke that particular accent 
either, though it's been a while since I was up there.

Marc aka Caran...

lists@bjs.org.uk wrote:

>[Went to see LOTR again last night]
>
>Why do Peter Jackson and Ray Feist both think that dwarves speak with a
>scottish accent?
>
>We've got Gimli on one hand and Solon on the other (who has grown up with
>the dwarves)
>
>
>Any ideas/thoughts?
>
>
>btw - Dolgan's accent is much less pronounced.
>
>BJS
>(England)
>
>PS - Have you also noticed how most of the LOTR cast say 'Mordor' in a scots
>accent.
>
>




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Subject: Re: OT : Death Gate Cycle
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Oof, I'd have to take a look at it again to do that. For now I can tell 
you it's Margaret Weis and Tracy Hickman. The main character belongs to 
a long exiled race that is trying to break out of it's magical prison. 
Their aim is to take revenge on their old enemies. In the 7 books, Haplo 
(or is that a character from some other series?) explores the different 
worlds created after the destruction of their old one (Earth iirc), 
finally meets one of his former ennemies but has to ally with him 
temporarily etc.


You should probably read the first two books and see whetehr you like 
it. Essentially the game plays in 4 quite different worlds plus the 
labyrinth. It's definitelly worth reading.

Marc aka Caran...


P.S.: If you still want a synopsis and no else will or can do it i will 
try. I wrote one years ago on eworld iirc, and I re-read most of Weis' 
books in nthe last years.

Monwar wrote:

>Has anyone here read the 'Death Gate Cycle'?
>
>Can anyone tell me the synopsis of the series, I mean what's it about? It
>has 7 books and totals over 2400 pages.
>
>
>
>
>
>_________________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>




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*** EOOH ***
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Same here, must have received it almost every post.

Marc aka Caran...

Craig J. Ries wrote:

>Tjeerd aka Syrion wrote:
>
>>I guess everyone who posts will get this the first time.
>>
>
>I've received it multiple times. :P
>
>>(Maybe the administrator can check out which account causes this?)
>>
>
>Sounds like somebody needs to get booted from the list until they get
>their mail sorted out.
>
>Craig J. Ries
>
>




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Subject: Re: Final Chapter?
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2002 13:27:54 +0100
From: Caranorn Aglaredhel <caranorn@cmdnet.lu>
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; fr-FR; rv:0.9.4) Gecko/20011130 Netscape6/6.2.1
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Subject: Re: Final Chapter?
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Oh yes, we used to have that discussion while I was on a WoT list years 
ago. And it all seems to drag on ever further, though I fear a single 
chapter to close off that epic just won't do. I expect Robert Jordan 
will have to write a full novel in advance to make sure it all ends up 
to his plans and not the mad fans.

Marc aka Caran... formerly prophet and secretary of Bela, blademaster, 
Lanfear follower, Rand is thickheaded member etc., gods that list was 
fun and I was only in half the clubs that spawned off it

Andrew Scott wrote:

>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Terri Lyn Layman" <terrilyn@ameritech.net>
>To: "FeistList (E-mail) (FEISTFANS-L)" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
>Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2002 8:23 PM
>Subject: Final Chapter?
>
>
>>Ray,
>>
>>Another one of my favorite authors (JK Rowling - so shoot me for becoming
>>hooked on a kid's series!  I needed to escape for a couple days after my
>>grandfather died, and a friend lent me the first two books.  Bad friend!
>>
>Bad
>
>>friend!) has written the final chapter in her book series. (She was on
>>
>A&E's
>
>>biography, and held up the folder it's in.  She was all freaky over
>>
>showing
>
>>us the OUTSIDE of the folder!  OI!)  I was wondering, do you have a "final
>>chapter" for Midkemia, or do you see it as being an organic work and that
>>eventually you'll allow others to write your world for you while you slip
>>off into retirement?
>>
>
>I dont think Ray can really have a final chapter since his books arent a
>single story like the Harry Potter series. Im just hoping Robert Jordan has
>a final chapter written incase something happens between now and 2025 when
>the final wheel of time book is released.
>
>Andrew
>
>
>




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Subject: Re: OT : Death Gate Cycle
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Jay" <res0ibjw@verizon.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT : Death Gate Cycle
Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2002 04:27:04 -0800
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Other than being by the same authors... no. Death Gate Cycle is not
connected to Dragonlance in any way. Worth a read though, in my opinion
(this coming from someone who is an avid dragonlance fan as well)
>
> [NEW]
>
> So it is in no way connected with Dragonlance?
>
>
> _________________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
>



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From: Caranorn Aglaredhel <caranorn@cmdnet.lu>
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Subject: Re: Pug (contains Lord of the rings spoiler)
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Then again, Tolkien's elves had been doing taht for ages, it never felt 
odd to me to see frodo leave. Possibly because I never could feel 
personally about the hobbits, at least not before I read Mc Kiernan 
(strange that his hobbits would touch me more). And these days I tend to 
make hobbit jokes (or rather their halfling descendents in GSIII).

Seing the elves go hurt me much more then Frodo ever could. For the same 
reason I'd hate to see Tomas leave much more then I would Pug 
(especially as Tomas' leaving would break the elvenkind's glorious 
gift's heart for good). And yes, I know quite well that Tomas is no elf, 
but he is so closely tied to them that I could no longer image 
Midkemia's elves without him.

And Jimmy's death sure hurt, as did a few other of ray's characters.

Marc aka Caran...

Tjeerd aka Syrion wrote:

>> From: "Jay" <res0ibjw@verizon.net>
>> Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>> To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
>> Subject: Re: Pug
>> Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 23:53:13 -0800
>>
>> I recall a thread where someone said "You can't kill off Pug!" and REF
>> responded with "Wanna bet?" That was awful, I think Pug is by far my
>> favorite character, and it would kill me to see him die. I think 
>> having him
>> move off (a la Macros leaving after Sethanon) would be a better end 
>> for him,
>> but the thought of him dying scares me.
>>
>
> To be honest: I'd rather see him death then dissapearing.
>
> The "bible" of modern fantasy is the Lord of the Ring series. In the 
> end Frodo leaves the continent of Middle-Earth and you'll never hear 
> of him again.
>
> At that moment, I felt betrayed. You imagined his journey in front, 
> you felt emotional connected to the character. And he leaves the story 
> without any info about his further life. I felt like a part of me was 
> gone.
>
> So I'd rather see a "he left and lived happily ever after" or he dies, 
> then the same trick Tolkien did in his book.
>
> (It seems that Tolkien ripped this scene off from "Le Mort d'Arthur", 
> where the wounded King Arthur sails to Avalon.)
>
> Greetings,
>
> Tjeerd
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> MSN Foto's is de eenvoudigste manier om je foto's te delen en af te 
> drukken: http://photos.msn.nl/Support/WorldWide.aspx
>
>
>




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Subject: Re: Odd "bounces." Why not use Yahoo! groups?
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2002 13:44:11 +0100
From: Caranorn Aglaredhel <caranorn@cmdnet.lu>
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Organization: House Phoenix
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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Odd "bounces." Why not use Yahoo! groups?
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

But yahoo groups might turn pay it seems. I currently run one list out 
there and am subscribed to half a dozen others. I would not recommend a 
move at this time. I am already wondering where to move the list I run 
if things change over there. I expect we'll just have to set up a site 
and create a forum, it's not as versatile as a list but will have to do.

Marc aka Caran...


Monwar wrote:

>>  Oddly enough, I've never seen this particular error message, either
>>from a post I've made or as an error message generated by someone else's
>>post. In general, error messages about list messages sent to full
>>mailboxes end up getting bounced back to me as list owner instead of to
>>the person who actually sent the message.
>>
>
>Hi Dan,
>
>Just a small suggestion. Why don't you use the Yahoo! groups service? It
>never shows this kind of error messages (though if you want, you can see
>those in the 'bounced' section) and it archives ALL the messages so new
>members can read them all. Like I had an interest about Ray's comments on
>the Sept 11 tragedy, but I could not get them. I know there is an archive
>maintained by someone but that's Unix based zip files and I would need to
>download a lot of files. I have a slow connection.
>
>The Yahoo! Groups also have chat, poll, files, member roster and other
>options. I have used it and it is great. Would all of you please consider
>the option of using a Yahoo! group? It's very easy to subscribe. Also, if
>anyone has a list of e-mail addresses, thousands of people can be subscribed
>by the moderator in minutes.
>
>I just created a Feistfans Yahoo group. You can check it out if you want at
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/feistfans. The email address is
>feistfans@yahoogroups.com.
>
>I can change the ownership to Dan or Ray if they want. But believe me, the
>service is great! For example, check the http://groups.yahoo.com/group/quill
>site. Look at all those messages archived. You can read every one message
>from 4 years back! Also, no error messages. It's much more efficient.
>
>Group name :
>feistfans
>
>Group home page :
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/feistfans
>
>Group email :
>feistfans@yahoogroups.com
>
>Group Email Addresses
>
>Post message: feistfans@yahoogroups.com
>Subscribe:  feistfans-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>Unsubscribe:  feistfans-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>List owner:  feistfans-owner@yahoogroups.com
>
>- Monwar
>
>
>_________________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>




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From: John <john@crydee.com>
Subject: Re: OT : Death Gate Cycle
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Subject: Re: OT : Death Gate Cycle
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Erik Trulsson <ertr1013@student.uu.se> writes
>On Sat, Feb 16, 2002 at 05:27:40PM +0600, Monwar wrote:
>> > I got into that serie with a skeptical mind, but I must admit I got
>> hooked. Briefly, s long time ago, powerful evil peoples were imprisoned and
>> the world they were trying to conquer got sundered in four worlds. Now,
>> these evil peoples escaped the prison and are trying to conquer again. In
>> the first four book, you explore the 4 worlds, following one of those "evil"
>> people, and you soon realize that appearances can be deceiving....
>> >
>> > The fifth book was flat IMO,  since it was the bridge for the 6th. That
>> one was really magnificient. I read it very fast, very deeply. The
>> concluding book (7th) is somewhat thin, but interesting.
>>
>> [NEW]
>>
>> So it is in no way connected with Dragonlance?
>
>Other than being written by the same persons who wrote the first two
>Dragonlance trilogies, no.
>
>Granted, there is a certain half-crazy old wizard in the Deathgate
>cycle who may, or may not, be the same character as a certain
>half-crazy old wizard in Dragonlance, but that probably counts as an
>"inside joke" more than anything else.
>
To quote Tracey
#9 Answer: Fizban -- a crazy old wizard with faulty memory -- is a 
trademark of TSR, Inc. and is used here without their permission. On the 
other hand Zifnab -- a crazy old wizard with faulty memory -- is a 
character wholly owned by Margaret Weis & Tracy Hickman. Neither of 
these characters bear any resemblance whatsoever to Zanfib -- a crazy 
old wizard with faulty memory -- from the Starshield books by Margaret 
Weis & Tracy Hickman. We hope this has cleared up this question once and 
for all

As you can see it was said tounge in cheek
-- 
John

john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.

Raymond E Feist Ring
http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm



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Subject: Re: Dwarves & scottish accents
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Subject: Re: Dwarves & scottish accents
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I don't believe the dwarves of Kelewan had any accent, only that an
interpreter was needed.



           Kev
Caution:TRUST ME
-------Original Message-------
>
>From: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Date: Saturday, February 16, 2002 04:54:58
>To: FEISTFANS-L
>Subject: Re: Dwarves & scottish accents
>
>To me dwarves speak swiss german. Can't even say why, just always 
>imagined them up in that part of the alps (and I think some of the 
>germanic myth about dwarves and giants would fit as the origins of 
>fantasy dwarves too).
>
>The scotish accent on the other hand has always been a specific human 
>accent to me (unfortunatelly my elven characters speak it occasionally, 
>but they have an excuse).
>
>Then again, I haven't met any scotsmen who spoke that particular accent 
>either, though it's been a while since I was up there.
>
>Marc aka Caran...
>
>lists@bjs.org.uk wrote:
>
>>[Went to see LOTR again last night]
>>
>>Why do Peter Jackson and Ray Feist both think that dwarves speak with a
>>scottish accent?
>>
>>We've got Gimli on one hand and Solon on the other (who has grown up with
>>the dwarves)
>>
>>
>>Any ideas/thoughts?
>>
>>
>>btw - Dolgan's accent is much less pronounced.
>>
>>BJS
>>(England)
>>
>>PS - Have you also noticed how most of the LOTR cast say 'Mordor' in a
>scots
>>accent.

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Subject: Re: Final Chapter?
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2002 08:04:52 -0800
Subject: Re: Final Chapter?
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Saturday, February 16, 2002, at 04:27 AM, Caranorn Aglaredhel wrote:

> Oh yes, we used to have that discussion while I was on a WoT list years 
> ago. And it all seems to drag on ever further, though I fear a single 
> chapter to close off that epic just won't do. I expect Robert Jordan 
> will have to write a full novel in advance to make sure it all ends up 
> to his plans and not the mad fans.

Jim Rigney, who writes under the name Robert Jordan (and Regan O'Neil 
and a couple of others over his career) has an idea of what he's doing.  
I think the problem he's facing is that he's created an "ending" that's 
tough to pull off: he's talking about a "wheel" in which everything ends 
up where it started.  Dramatically, the closer to the end you get, the 
less you can do.
>
Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2002 08:07:19 -0800
Subject: Re: Dwarves & scottish accents
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2002 08:07:19 -0800
Subject: Re: Dwarves & scottish accents
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On Saturday, February 16, 2002, at 04:35 AM, Caranorn Aglaredhel wrote:

> To me dwarves speak swiss german. Can't even say why, just always 
> imagined them up in that part of the alps (and I think some of the 
> germanic myth about dwarves and giants would fit as the origins of 
> fantasy dwarves too).
>
> The scotish accent on the other hand has always been a specific human 
> accent to me (unfortunatelly my elven characters speak it occasionally, 
> but they have an excuse).
>
> Then again, I haven't met any scotsmen who spoke that particular accent 
> either, though it's been a while since I was up there.
>

Sorry, YOUR elves may sound like they're from Geneva, but mine sound 
like they're from Aberdeen.

Best, R.E.F.

----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Subject: Re: Dwarves & scottish accents
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Colin Phipps" <phipps@vaxxine.com>
To: "Feistfans" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Dwarves & scottish accents
Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2002 11:45:28 -0500
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>[Went to see LOTR again last night]
>
>Why do Peter Jackson and Ray Feist both think that dwarves speak with a
>scottish accent?
>
>We've got Gimli on one hand and Solon on the other (who has grown up with
>the dwarves)
>
>
>Any ideas/thoughts?
>
>
>btw - Dolgan's accent is much less pronounced.
>
>BJS
>(England)
>
>PS - Have you also noticed how most of the LOTR cast say 'Mordor' in a scots
>accent.


It's not that they say it in a Scottish accent, it's just that in Tolkien's
world
(IIRC) an "or" in a word is pronounced as "oor".  So now try and say it like
Moordoor and you'll see why it sounds like a Scottish accent.

Colin






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Subject: OT: Frodo's fate (was Re: Pug (contains Lord of the rings spoiler))
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Subject: OT: Frodo's fate (was Re: Pug (contains Lord of the rings spoiler))
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 Tjeerd aka Syrion wrote:
[snip]

 > >
 > > The "bible" of modern fantasy is the Lord of the Ring series. In the 
 > > end Frodo leaves the continent of Middle-Earth and you'll never hear 
 > > of him again.


 > > At that moment, I felt betrayed. You imagined his journey in front, 
 > > you felt emotional connected to the character. And he leaves the story 
 > > without any info about his further life. I felt like a part of me was 
 > > gone.
 > >
 > > So I'd rather see a "he left and lived happily ever after" or he dies, 
 > > then the same trick Tolkien did in his book.

That's not entirely correct because the implication - which is quite
clear - is that he will find peace, happiness, and healing in Valinor.

So, it's a little bit more than a sudden disappearance.

And Frodo's final fate is unchanged - he dies in Valinor. See
Tolkien's letter #154 for more info.


 > >
 > > (It seems that Tolkien ripped this scene off from "Le Mort d'Arthur", 
 > > where the wounded King Arthur sails to Avalon.)

Temporal precedence does not prove causality - although, I'm quite
sure Tolkien was familiar with the King Arthur legends.

-Matt



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2002 12:55:22 -0700
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Odd "bounces." Why not use Yahoo! groups?
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Caranorn Aglaredhel wrote:
> 
> But yahoo groups might turn pay it seems. I currently run one list out
> there and am subscribed to half a dozen others. I would not recommend a
> move at this time. I am already wondering where to move the list I run
> if things change over there. I expect we'll just have to set up a site
> and create a forum, it's not as versatile as a list but will have to do.

I'm on atleast half a dozen groups now under Yahoo! myself. Most of them
started out with egroups (which was bought by Yahoo!) but one even
predates egroups (when egroups bought that compay :)

So far, aside from advertising, I've seen little problems with it.
Whether it goes to a pay form someday is another matter, as it's hard to
get much of anything on the net anymore w/out having to pay somebody for
it.

Craig J. Ries



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2002 12:53:10 -0700
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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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John wrote:
> 
> As you can see it was said tounge in cheek

I own the books but have yet to read them, but others have stated that
(as John also stated), Zifnab has more than a passing resemblence to
Fizban.
Iirc, Zifnab read Dragonlance books (gotta love shameless plugs :), as
well as some other popular genre stuff (James Bond springs to mind as
one I've heard in the past), and there may be some other stuff as well.

Craig J. Ries



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2002 21:52:37 +0100
From: Caranorn Aglaredhel <caranorn@cmdnet.lu>
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Subject: Re: Dwarves & scottish accents
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Dwarves Ray, Dwarves. My elves have a Breton accent;-)

Marc aka Caran...

Raymond Feist wrote:

>
> On Saturday, February 16, 2002, at 04:35 AM, Caranorn Aglaredhel wrote:
>
>> To me dwarves speak swiss german. Can't even say why, just always 
>> imagined them up in that part of the alps (and I think some of the 
>> germanic myth about dwarves and giants would fit as the origins of 
>> fantasy dwarves too).
>>
>> The scotish accent on the other hand has always been a specific human 
>> accent to me (unfortunatelly my elven characters speak it 
>> occasionally, but they have an excuse).
>>
>> Then again, I haven't met any scotsmen who spoke that particular 
>> accent either, though it's been a while since I was up there.
>>
>
> Sorry, YOUR elves may sound like they're from Geneva, but mine sound 
> like they're from Aberdeen.
>
> Best, R.E.F.
>
> ----
>
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
> stupidity.
>
>



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References: <EICKPLJKGFIOIBAA@mailcity.com>	 <001301c1b6dc$f65c77c0$2522becb@mufakker>	 <20020216122221.GA55091@student.uu.se> <0yZWkcP+3lb8Ewli@cableinet.co.uk> <3C6EB8A6.2CA2FAD1@yifan.net>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2002 21:54:28 +0100
From: Caranorn Aglaredhel <caranorn@cmdnet.lu>
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Oh Zifnab indeed thinks he is James Bond at times. Then he turns into 
another personna again. He certainly is entertaining.

Marc aka Caran...

Craig J. Ries wrote:

>John wrote:
>
>>As you can see it was said tounge in cheek
>>
>
>I own the books but have yet to read them, but others have stated that
>(as John also stated), Zifnab has more than a passing resemblence to
>Fizban.
>Iirc, Zifnab read Dragonlance books (gotta love shameless plugs :), as
>well as some other popular genre stuff (James Bond springs to mind as
>one I've heard in the past), and there may be some other stuff as well.
>
>Craig J. Ries
>
>



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From: "John Jeffries" <johncjeffries@hotmail.com>
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After reading all the "don't kill pug" posts, I thought to myself, the nice 
thing about REF's books is this, new names, new faces, new stories of the 
land.  The question I have is this: Will we learn how Pug dies, and the 
story that goes with it?   Anyway for my part, I have enjoyed the stories so 
far, and am looking forward to the next instalments.

John

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2002 14:19:17 -0800
Subject: Re: Pug
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
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On Saturday, February 16, 2002, at 01:32 PM, John Jeffries wrote:

>
>
> After reading all the "don't kill pug" posts, I thought to myself, the 
> nice thing about REF's books is this, new names, new faces, new stories 
> of the land.  The question I have is this: Will we learn how Pug dies, 
> and the story that goes with it?   Anyway for my part, I have enjoyed 
> the stories so far, and am looking forward to the next instalments.
>

If I get around to writing that book, yes.  If not, no.  <g>

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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From: "Rob Kolech" <feistfan@rogers.com>
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Hello All,

	I have a quick questino and I am sorry if it has been asked before.  I
poked around the list FAQ but I could not find an answer.  I was wondering
if "Talon of the Silver Hawk" will be released in North America.  I know
that for some reason (probably money) the "Legends of the Riftwar" books are
not being released here.  At Amazon.co.uk it says that "Talon of the Silver
Hawk" is due in August, will it be coming out here in North America then too
or will I have to order from Britain.

	Thanks all, have a great one,
__________
Rob Kolech



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Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2002 15:40:27 -0700
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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Rob Kolech wrote:
> 
> I know that for some reason (probably money) the "Legends of the
> Riftwar" books are not being released here.

Ray has commented on this numerous times: it comes down to the publisher
and his apparent disagreements with said publisher here in the States.

> At Amazon.co.uk it says that "Talon of the Silver Hawk" is due in 
> August, will it be coming out here in North America then too or will
> I have to order from Britain.

Ray also said that Talon will be out I thought in Sept. in Britain, and
probably the following May (2003) in the States.

Craig J. Ries



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2002 16:36:20 -0800
Subject: Re: Book Availibility
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
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On Saturday, February 16, 2002, at 02:32 PM, Rob Kolech wrote:

> Hello All,
>
> 	I have a quick questino and I am sorry if it has been asked before.  I
> poked around the list FAQ but I could not find an answer.  I was 
> wondering
> if "Talon of the Silver Hawk" will be released in North America.  I know
> that for some reason (probably money) the "Legends of the Riftwar" 
> books are
> not being released here.  At Amazon.co.uk it says that "Talon of the 
> Silver
> Hawk" is due in August, will it be coming out here in North America 
> then too
> or will I have to order from Britain.
>
> 	Thanks all, have a great one,
> __________
> Rob Kolech
>
>
>
>

Talon is a spring release, 2003, in the US.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Raymond Feist" <raymond@bittersea.com

>
> Talon is a spring release, 2003, in the US.
>
> Best, R.E.F.

Youve probably answered this before but approximately how long is Talon
going to be? Is it going to be like the Krondor books or is it going to be
back to the Serpentwar saga length?

Andrew



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2002 18:32:18 -0800
Subject: Re: Book Availibility
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
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On Saturday, February 16, 2002, at 04:59 PM, Andrew Scott wrote:

> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Raymond Feist" <raymond@bittersea.com
>
>>
>> Talon is a spring release, 2003, in the US.
>>
>> Best, R.E.F.
>
> Youve probably answered this before but approximately how long is Talon
> going to be? Is it going to be like the Krondor books or is it going to 
> be
> back to the Serpentwar saga length?
>
> Andrew
>
>
>
>

So far, I've only written about 200 pages of it, so I have no idea.

I think it's going to be a big book, probably in the 500+ pages range.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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--- Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com> wrote:
> So far, I've only written about 200 pages of it, so
> I have no idea.
> 
> I think it's going to be a big book, probably in the
> 500+ pages range.

Awesome.
And the whole series?  How long do you think that will
be?

~Joshua~

> 
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
> 
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be
> explained away by 
> stupidity.
> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games
http://sports.yahoo.com



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 02:04:41 -0800
Subject: Re: Book Availibility
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
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On Saturday, February 16, 2002, at 10:29 PM, Joshua Stanton wrote:

>
> --- Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com> wrote:
>> So far, I've only written about 200 pages of it, so
>> I have no idea.
>>
>> I think it's going to be a big book, probably in the
>> 500+ pages range.
>
> Awesome.
> And the whole series?  How long do you think that will
> be?
>

Two books: Talon of the Silver Hawk and King of Foxes.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Subject: RE: Dwarves & scottish accents
Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 13:18:07 -0000
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Moor Door
Moordoor
still sounds like Mordor

I think what makes it stand out as being 'scottish' is the rolled or
guttural 'R'. It's almost as if they're snoring.

BTW - My dwarves are Norse (just to be original).

BJS

PS - I do love Bored of the rings - Twodor (2door) and Fordor (4door)
instead of Gondor and Mordor.

-----Original Message-----
>From: Colin Phipps [mailto:phipps@vaxxine.com]
>Sent: 16 February 2002 16:45
>To: Feistfans
>Subject: Re: Dwarves & scottish accents
>
>
>
>>[Went to see LOTR again last night]
>>
>>Why do Peter Jackson and Ray Feist both think that dwarves speak with a
>>scottish accent?
>>
>>We've got Gimli on one hand and Solon on the other (who has grown up with
>>the dwarves)
>>
>>
>>Any ideas/thoughts?
>>
>>
>>btw - Dolgan's accent is much less pronounced.
>>
>>BJS
>>(England)
>>
>>PS - Have you also noticed how most of the LOTR cast say 'Mordor' in a scots
>>accent.
>
>
>It's not that they say it in a Scottish accent, it's just that in Tolkien's
>world
>(IIRC) an "or" in a word is pronounced as "oor".  So now try and say it like
>Moordoor and you'll see why it sounds like a Scottish accent.
>
>Colin
>




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Subject: RE: Odd "bounces." Why not use Yahoo! groups?
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72

I'm currently on 72 Yahoogroups, some going back to egroups, many going back
to onelist (who were bought out by egroups).

The reason it took me so long to subscribe to this 'ere list, was that it
wasn't on *-groups - I did look.
I think with the adverts, it's up to the list owner to specify a footer to
each message/digest.
Yes, if you're using the on-line web interface to read mail, then recently
they've started throwing in advert pages, but otherwise you can just treat
the adverts as you would with big .sig files - ignore them.


BJS

PS - I reckon joining YHG would bring the membership up, which may or may
not be a good thing (Signal-to-Noise ratios and all that). Plus I wouldn't
have to keep setting my From address if sending from a different a/c. You
don't need to have a yahoo mail account to join a list, just a YahooID.


PPS - Please all take a look at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Midkemia/message/144
(You may get an advert preceding the message (25% chance?), and you will get
one on the RHS of the message, but there should be no pop-ups. And no, you
don't need to belong to Yahoo in order to see it)
This is a message I posted to YHG group called Midkemia. What I didn't
realise is that it would automatically hide the list's email address I put
in. This list is set to have a Public archive


-----Original Message-----
>From: Craig J. Ries [mailto:cries@yifan.net]
>Sent: 16 February 2002 19:55
>To: FEISTFANS-L
>Subject: Re: Odd "bounces." Why not use Yahoo! groups?
>
>
>Caranorn Aglaredhel wrote:
>>
>> But yahoo groups might turn pay it seems. I currently run one list out
>> there and am subscribed to half a dozen others. I would not recommend a
>> move at this time. I am already wondering where to move the list I run
>> if things change over there. I expect we'll just have to set up a site
>> and create a forum, it's not as versatile as a list but will have to do.
>
>I'm on atleast half a dozen groups now under Yahoo! myself. Most of them
>started out with egroups (which was bought by Yahoo!) but one even
>predates egroups (when egroups bought that compay :)
>
>So far, aside from advertising, I've seen little problems with it.
>Whether it goes to a pay form someday is another matter, as it's hard to
>get much of anything on the net anymore w/out having to pay somebody for
>it.
>
>Craig J. Ries
>


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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 10:46:43 -0700
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Odd "bounces." Why not use Yahoo! groups?
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lists@bjs.org.uk wrote:
> 
> I'm currently on 72 Yahoogroups,

You've got too much time on your hands. :)

Craig J. Ries



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 10:47:19 -0700
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Book Availibility
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Raymond Feist wrote:
> 
> Two books: Talon of the Silver Hawk and King of Foxes.

Hmm. Is that by design from the start then? You know we want this next
Riftwar to be 20 books long :)

Craig J. Ries



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From: "Dave Curran" <dave@davecurran.demon.co.uk>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Profit and the Grey Assassin
Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 22:25:37 -0000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Dave Curran" <dave@davecurran.demon.co.uk>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Profit and the Grey Assassin
Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 22:25:37 -0000
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Ray,

I have the opportunity to buy a magazine containing a short story by you,
called "Profit and the Grey Assassin"

All I know is that it is set in the Hall of Worlds, and was published prior
to Magician.

Can you shed a little light on this for me?
Is this your first Published work?
How long is it?
Is it connected to any of the other books [other than its setting]?
Have you written any other short stories?


Also, what is "Myth Makers Video"?
Apparently you talked about this story at the beginning of the tape.

Thanks in advance.


...Dave...

Success is the journey, not the destination.
Remember to enjoy today!



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Dave Curran <dave@davecurran.demon.co.uk> writes
>Ray,
>
>I have the opportunity to buy a magazine containing a short story by you,
>called "Profit and the Grey Assassin"
Wonder where you saw that <BG>
>
>All I know is that it is set in the Hall of Worlds, and was published prior
>to Magician.
>
>Can you shed a little light on this for me?
>Is this your first Published work?
Definitely prior to Magician
>How long is it?
Getting copy from shelf, 7 pages
>Is it connected to any of the other books [other than its setting]?
>Have you written any other short stories?
Geroldo's incredible Trick
Wood Boy

>
>
>Also, what is "Myth Makers Video"?
Interview with Ray at Fantasycon XXIII which took place in Birmingham 
back in 1999, contains, comments by others and some cover images :)
>Apparently you talked about this story at the beginning of the tape.
>
The video stars with the Magazine, and the Story

-- 
John

john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.

Raymond E Feist Ring
http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm



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Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 09:12:25 +1000 (GMT+1000)
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From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Profit and the Grey Assassin
In-Reply-To: <NFBBKOHMNLCDNNLBCLKKGEALCBAA.dave@davecurran.demon.co.uk>
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Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 09:12:25 +1000 (GMT+1000)
From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Profit and the Grey Assassin
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> Ray,
> I have the opportunity to buy a magazine containing a short story by you,
> called "Profit and the Grey Assassin"
> All I know is that it is set in the Hall of Worlds, and was published prior
> to Magician.
> Can you shed a little light on this for me?
> Is this your first Published work?
> How long is it?
> Is it connected to any of the other books [other than its setting]?
> Have you written any other short stories?

Though I'm not Ray, I can shed some light.

It was published in 1982 in fantasy magazine called "Fantasy book", issue
4.

It is a short story, approximately 4/5 a4 pages long.

Concerns two characters, Profit (a theif) and the Elrond Scarlett (IIRC),
the grey Assassin (Who is also mentioned in Shadow of a Dark Queen,
specifically when Miranda is searching for Pug in the Hall of the Worlds).

It is set in the Hall of the Worlds.

Ray has written two other Short stories (well published two other ones to
be exact). Geraldo's Incredible Trick, which is in numerous compediums, my
copy is in Margeret Weis's "A Magic Lover's guide to the Fantastic", and
also he has published "The Wood Boy" (set during Magician), which is in
Robert Silverberg's "Legends" book.

> Also, what is "Myth Makers Video"?
> Apparently you talked about this story at the beginning of the tape.

Myth Makers is a Raymond E Feist documentary, about the books and his
background. Features John Bunting's book collection. About 120 were signed
and numbered by Raymond E Feist himself (Not sure if the signed ones are
around). I think you can order Myth Makers from
www.reeltimepictures.co.uk.

> Thanks in advance.
> ...Dave...


Hope that helps.

Thanks
Darragh
-=-=
www.iamtheporkfireman.com
[Email]: s356179@student.uq.edu.au [ICQ]: 114283262



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 15:33:47 -0800
Subject: Re: Book Availibility
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Sunday, February 17, 2002, at 09:47 AM, Craig J. Ries wrote:

> Raymond Feist wrote:
>>
>> Two books: Talon of the Silver Hawk and King of Foxes.
>
> Hmm. Is that by design from the start then? You know we want this next
> Riftwar to be 20 books long :)
>
> Craig J. Ries
>
>
>
>

After Conclave, the Third Riftwar starts, and that should be a three 
book series.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
From: "Jay" <res0ibjw@verizon.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Book Availibility
Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 15:36:46 -0800
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> Raymond Feist wrote:
> >
> > Two books: Talon of the Silver Hawk and King of Foxes.
>
> Hmm. Is that by design from the start then? You know we want this next
> Riftwar to be 20 books long :)
>
> Craig J. Ries
>
>
That sounds an awful lot like Robert Jordan. I know fans find his work
boring lately, I still think it's wonderful. I am a bit annoyed at the fact
that he's already working on book 10 and going strong, and that he takes
around 2 years to write a book that takes me 2 days to read :-)



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 16:55:13 -0700
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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Jay wrote:
> 
> That sounds an awful lot like Robert Jordan. I know fans find his work
> boring lately, I still think it's wonderful. I am a bit annoyed at the fact
> that he's already working on book 10 and going strong, and that he takes
> around 2 years to write a book that takes me 2 days to read :-)

I honestly couldn't say: I've never read Jordan's work.

However, I, like I'm sure most others here :), love Ray's work, and no
matter how long or short the books are we will enjoy them.

Atleast with Ray's books, they are usually contained stories or a
series. Jordan's books aren't subseries within a world: afaik it is one
big story.
And although the Riftwars are leading to one overall big story too, they
are still stories within themselves. This doesn't seem as much to be the
case with Wheel of Time.

Craig J. Ries



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Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 16:56:24 -0700
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
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Raymond Feist wrote:
> 
> After Conclave, the Third Riftwar starts, and that should be a three
> book series.

Hmm, I thought Conclave WAS the Third Riftwar? :)

Or is this more of an in-between like Prince of the Blood & King's
Buccaneer?

Craig J. Ries



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Subject: Re: Book Availibility
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On Sunday, February 17, 2002, at 03:56 PM, Craig J. Ries wrote:

> Raymond Feist wrote:
>>
>> After Conclave, the Third Riftwar starts, and that should be a three
>> book series.
>
> Hmm, I thought Conclave WAS the Third Riftwar? :)
>
> Or is this more of an in-between like Prince of the Blood & King's
> Buccaneer?
>
> Craig J. Ries
>
>
>
>

No, the Conclave is it's own story, but it leads into the Third Riftwar.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 14:50:57 +1000 (GMT+1000)
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From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Guy Kay Gavarial Was Re: Book Availibility
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 14:50:57 +1000 (GMT+1000)
From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Guy Kay Gavarial Was Re: Book Availibility
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> >
> > That sounds an awful lot like Robert Jordan. I know fans find his work
> > boring lately, I still think it's wonderful. I am a bit annoyed at the fact
> > that he's already working on book 10 and going strong, and that he takes
> > around 2 years to write a book that takes me 2 days to read :-)

Just wonder if anyone has read Guy's work.

I've read Tigana, which was breathtaking, one of the best stand alone
fantasy books I've read.

Just started the Fionavar Tapestry, wonder if anyone could tell me what
that is like (preferably giving away little as possible).

Thanks
Darragh
-=-=
www.iamtheporkfireman.com
[Email]: s356179@student.uq.edu.au [ICQ]: 114283262



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From: "Nevyn" <alien4@wasp.net.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Book Availibility
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 13:10:18 +0800
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Im lost. Is there newer books out then Honoured Enemy?



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From: RavusLupus@aol.com
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 00:22:54 EST
Subject: Re: Book Availibility
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In a message dated 18/02/2002 05:15:33 GMT Standard Time, alien4@wasp.net.au 
writes:


> Im lost. Is there newer books out then Honoured Enemy?

no, Honoured Enemy is the most recent, but there will be soon., which is 
good, cant come fast enuf.

Jaszon

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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 09:12:57 +0000
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: Odd "bounces."
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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At 08:12 PM 2/15/02 -0500, Dan Lorey wrote:
>>I've received it multiple times. :P
>
>  Oddly enough, I've never seen this particular error message, either
>from a post I've made or as an error message generated by someone else's
>post. In general, error messages about list messages sent to full 
>mailboxes end up getting bounced back to me as list owner instead of to 
>the person who actually sent the message.

This means that animewhatzit.org's owner has there SNMP server
mis-configured.  It's using the wrong header line to figure
out to whom it should be sending its error messages.  The
fact that it doesn't actually give the destination address
in its return bounce (I've gotten it too.  I expect to get
one from this post, also), means that they are *sniffs* 
amateurs. 

The only thing you can do is send an email as the list owner
to 'postmaster@animenation.org', explain the above and ask that
they send you a list of each domain they are handling so you
can cross-check against the list...or they could just fix their
damn SNMP server.

>animenation.org. If that site does indeed host 50 domains, I have 
>absolutely no clue about which of the great number of free web-based 
>email addresses subscribed to the list might be bad. Even if all 

Easy ;-> unsubscribe everyone, and make us all resubscribe.

rip



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Subject: Re: OT : Death Gate Cycle
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 09:15:43 +0000
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: OT : Death Gate Cycle
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Monwar,

Said as a friendly voice from the crowd...

This is the 'Ray Feist' fans list.  The spawning of OT posts
is /not/ part of the remit.  Please read the info for newbies.
Posts that devolve into OT are 'tolerated'.  Posts that start
in OT should include "send me your answers directly, not to the
list!"  

What you are doing by just posting OT reminds us of Sky Ainsworth,
and that Is Not A Good Memory.

Regards,
rip

At 11:56 AM 2/16/02 +0600, Monwar wrote:
>Has anyone here read the 'Death Gate Cycle'?
>
>Can anyone tell me the synopsis of the series, I mean what's it about? It
>has 7 books and totals over 2400 pages.
>
>
>
>
>
>_________________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 09:20:50 +0000
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: Final Chapter?
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At 08:04 AM 2/16/02 -0800, Raymond Feist wrote:
> Jim Rigney, who writes under the name Robert Jordan 
>(and Regan O'Neil and a couple of others over his career) 
>has an idea of what he's doing.  
>I think the problem he's facing is that he's created an "ending" that's tough to pull off: he's talking about a "wheel" in which everything ends up where it started.  Dramatically, the closer to the end you get, the less you can do.

Been there, done that.  I explored that very same theme*
in my first novel, SOS, available in PDF (300Kb) to interested
parties.

I admit that I pulled it off in one book instead of (12? 13? 147?)
however many, but I only had a month to do it in.

rip
* (rolling all over myself laughing at the pomposity)
-- 
         --- One Month --- 50,000 words --- One Novel ---
                  http://www.nanowrimo.com/



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From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: was: Guy Kay Gavarial
In-Reply-To: <Pine.OSF.4.30.0202181449170.15822-100000@student.uq.edu.au
 >
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 09:25:04 +0000
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: was: Guy Kay Gavarial
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At 02:50 PM 2/18/02 +1000, Darragh Murray wrote:
>Just started the Fionavar Tapestry, wonder if anyone could tell me what
>that is like (preferably giving away little as possible).

Just finished Fionavar.  Tidy little books.  A little bit
of everything.  

Evil Godlike Being trying for dominion over the Good and True
Peoples (Elves/Dwarves/Giants/Humans/etc).  True Love.  Arthurian
Legends.  A dog.

Hope that clears it up for you.  I liked them, but wasn't
inspired to go read everything else he's writ.  

At the moment, I'm reading Elizabeth Moon's Serrano series
(Space Opera! ohman ohman ohman I'm in LOVE).

Ray, have you ever met Elizabeth Moon? 

rip



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From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 09:37:42 +0000
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
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At 09:12 AM 2/18/02 +0000, Richard Williamson wrote:
>This means that animewhatzit.org's owner has there SNMP server

s/their/there/

*rolls eyes*

rip



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	(message from Darragh Murray on Mon, 18 Feb 2002 14:50:57 +1000
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Subject: Re: Guy Kay Gavarial Was Re: Book Availibility
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Donal K. Fellows" <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Guy Kay Gavarial Was Re: Book Availibility
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 10:00:27 +0000
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Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
> Just wonder if anyone has read Guy's work.

Yes.

> I've read Tigana, which was breathtaking, one of the best stand alone
> fantasy books I've read.

_A Song for Arbonne_ is also excellent.  And his recent stuff too
(_The Lions of Al'Rassan_ and _The Sarantine Mosaic_.)

> Just started the Fionavar Tapestry, wonder if anyone could tell me what
> that is like (preferably giving away little as possible).

[very slight spoiler]



I didn't care for it as much as any of his later works; it's OK, but
the whole Arthurian mythos irritates me tremendously (not as much as
Irish myth, but that's a whole 'nother story.)  However, just because
it hit one of my personal hot-buttons doesn't mean that other people
won't like it.

However, all his other stuff is really very satisfying indeed.

Donal.
-- 
Donal K. Fellows, Department of Computer Science, University of Manchester, UK.
(work) fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk     Tel: +44-161-275-6137  (preferred email addr.)
(home) donal@ugglan.demon.co.uk  Tel: +44-1274-401017   Mobile: +44-7957-298955
http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~fellowsd/  (Don't quote my .sig; I've seen it before!)



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Subject: OT: Elizabeth Moon (was Guy Kay Gavarial)
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Julie Wootten" <wootten@xtra.co.nz>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: OT: Elizabeth Moon (was Guy Kay Gavarial)
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 22:45:58 +1300
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> At the moment, I'm reading Elizabeth Moon's Serrano series
> (Space Opera! ohman ohman ohman I'm in LOVE).
> 
> Ray, have you ever met Elizabeth Moon? 
> 
> rip

I loved em too!  For something REALLY similar, try David Weber's
Honor Harrington series.  First book is On Basilisk Station.

Julie.





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Subject: OT: LOTR question
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Allan Mills" <amills1@bigpond.net.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: OT: LOTR question
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 22:05:17 +1100
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 I was discussing the movie with some friends recently and one unanswered
question came up. The second book is called the Two Tower. Which two towers
are they talking about?

 Allan



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References: <231E3907-20D0-11D6-BF6E-003065A8A644@bittersea.com> <F126xEfhzL1f6Ykwn9W00007f1e@hotmail.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20020214082504.00a45980@mail.optonline.net>
Subject: Re: Pug
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 22:10:44 +1100
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Allan Mills" <amills1@bigpond.net.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Pug
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 22:10:44 +1100
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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  It wouldn't be that hard to do it non-trivially. Just throw him in against
a local equivalent of a balhiir (sp) or a nishiru. For the non-AD&D folk
these are creatures that literally eat magic. Spells just heal them and the
the latter can drain uncast spells from it's target. Send some of them to
soften Pug up then just stab him with a sword.

 Not that I'm asking for Pug to die of course.

 Allan

----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry Siegel" <larry@psihawk.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Friday, February 15, 2002 12:26 AM
Subject: Re: Pug


> Ya'know....
>
> Thinking about Ray killing Pug off....
>
> Can you just imagine the power of the creature/being
> that could pull that off.....?
>
> Then again.. Ray could just as easily have him slip on
> a banana peel.....
>
>
> Larry
>
> My Homepage
> http://www.psihawk.com
>
> Raymond E. Feist FAQ
> http://www.psihawk.com/feist
>



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From: "Donal K. Fellows" <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
In-reply-to: <017601c1b86c$263b8c20$2f01a8c0@allans> (amills1@bigpond.net.au)
Subject: Re: OT: LOTR question
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Donal K. Fellows" <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT: LOTR question
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 11:27:10 +0000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

"Allan Mills" <amills1@bigpond.net.au>
>  I was discussing the movie with some friends recently and one unanswered
> question came up. The second book is called the Two Tower. Which two towers
> are they talking about?

IIRC, they were built by Gondor, one of which is now the capital of
Gondor, and the other of which was taken over by Mordor.  However, it
is many years since I read tLotR so I do not remember their names.

Donal.
-- 
Donal K. Fellows, Department of Computer Science, University of Manchester, UK.
(work) fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk     Tel: +44-161-275-6137  (preferred email addr.)
(home) donal@ugglan.demon.co.uk  Tel: +44-1274-401017   Mobile: +44-7957-298955
http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~fellowsd/  (Don't quote my .sig; I've seen it before!)



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Subject: Re: OT: LOTR question
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*** EOOH ***
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From: darren <darren@web-bitch.co.uk>
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
To: FeistFans <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: OT: LOTR question
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

On 18 February 2002 at 11:05:17, Allan Mills <amills1@bigpond.net.au> wrote:

AM>  I was discussing the movie with some friends recently and one unanswered
AM> question came up. The second book is called the Two Tower. Which two towers
AM> are they talking about?

this one's from memory and it's been a while since i read the books,
but....

the one in mordor, minas morgul, and the one in gondor, minas tirath??  i
*think* they're the names...one's where frodo et. al get to, the other for
strider and co.

i think... :>

darren



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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Odd "bounces."
Message-ID: <20020218123707.A19619@student.uu.se>
References: <2.2.32.20020216011211.0075836c@postoffice2.mail.cornell.ed <5.1.0.14.2.20020218090800.0263ed90@mail.swindon.wrsec.fr> <5.1.0.14.2.20020218093703.02601b90@mail.swindon.wrsec.fr>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 12:37:08 +0100
From: Erik Trulsson <ertr1013@student.uu.se>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Odd "bounces."
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On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 09:37:42AM +0000, Richard Williamson wrote:
> At 09:12 AM 2/18/02 +0000, Richard Williamson wrote:
> >This means that animewhatzit.org's owner has there SNMP server
> 
> s/their/there/
> 
> *rolls eyes*
> 
> rip
> 

s/SNMP/SMTP/

should probably also be done.



-- 
<Insert your favourite quote here.>
Erik Trulsson
ertr1013@student.uu.se



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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT: LOTR question
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 12:52:28 +0100
From: Erik Trulsson <ertr1013@student.uu.se>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT: LOTR question
User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i
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On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 11:27:10AM +0000, Donal K. Fellows wrote:
> "Allan Mills" <amills1@bigpond.net.au>
> >  I was discussing the movie with some friends recently and one unanswered
> > question came up. The second book is called the Two Tower. Which two towers
> > are they talking about?
> 
> IIRC, they were built by Gondor, one of which is now the capital of
> Gondor, and the other of which was taken over by Mordor.  However, it
> is many years since I read tLotR so I do not remember their names.

You are probably thinking of Minas Tirith and Minas Morgul.
(Originally named Minas Anor and Minas Ithil, the Tower of the Sun and the
Tower of the Moon.)

That is not the correct answer though.

The correct answer is that the two towers in the title are Orthanc in
Isengard and the guard tower at Cirith Ungol.

(Both of them were also built by Gondor originally and later taken over by
evil.)



> 
> Donal.
> -- 
> Donal K. Fellows, Department of Computer Science, University of Manchester, UK.
> (work) fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk     Tel: +44-161-275-6137  (preferred email addr.)
> (home) donal@ugglan.demon.co.uk  Tel: +44-1274-401017   Mobile: +44-7957-298955
> http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~fellowsd/  (Don't quote my .sig; I've seen it before!)
> 

-- 
<Insert your favourite quote here.>
Erik Trulsson
ertr1013@student.uu.se



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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: Odd "bounces."
In-Reply-To: <20020218123707.A19619@student.uu.se>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020218093703.02601b90@mail.swindon.wrsec.fr>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 12:15:20 +0000
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: Odd "bounces."
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Bad day to be me.

rip

At 12:37 PM 2/18/02 +0100, Erik Trulsson wrote:
>On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 09:37:42AM +0000, Richard Williamson wrote:
>> At 09:12 AM 2/18/02 +0000, Richard Williamson wrote:
>> >This means that animewhatzit.org's owner has there SNMP server
>> 
>> s/their/there/
>> 
>> *rolls eyes*
>> 
>> rip
>> 
>
>s/SNMP/SMTP/
>
>should probably also be done.



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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Pug
References: <231E3907-20D0-11D6-BF6E-003065A8A644@bittersea.com> <F126xEfhzL1f6Ykwn9W00007f1e@hotmail.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20020214082504.00a45980@mail.optonline.net> <01a201c1b86c$e8dc1240$2f01a8c0@allans>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 13:35:23 +0100
From: Caranorn Aglaredhel <caranorn@cmdnet.lu>
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Subject: Re: Pug
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Bah, he will just have to pick up his old sling once more. I hope he 
kept practicing;-)

Marc aka Caran...

Allan Mills wrote:

>  It wouldn't be that hard to do it non-trivially. Just throw him in against
>a local equivalent of a balhiir (sp) or a nishiru. For the non-AD&D folk
>these are creatures that literally eat magic. Spells just heal them and the
>the latter can drain uncast spells from it's target. Send some of them to
>soften Pug up then just stab him with a sword.
>
> Not that I'm asking for Pug to die of course.
>
> Allan
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Larry Siegel" <larry@psihawk.com>
>To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
>Sent: Friday, February 15, 2002 12:26 AM
>Subject: Re: Pug
>
>
>>Ya'know....
>>
>>Thinking about Ray killing Pug off....
>>
>>Can you just imagine the power of the creature/being
>>that could pull that off.....?
>>
>>Then again.. Ray could just as easily have him slip on
>>a banana peel.....
>>
>>
>>Larry
>>
>>My Homepage
>>http://www.psihawk.com
>>
>>Raymond E. Feist FAQ
>>http://www.psihawk.com/feist
>>
>
>




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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 13:31:50 +0100
From: Caranorn Aglaredhel <caranorn@cmdnet.lu>
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Organization: House Phoenix
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; fr-FR; rv:0.9.4) Gecko/20011130 Netscape6/6.2.1
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Odd "bounces."
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

On their site they seem to list all their domain names. But I'm not sure 
that would be sufficient to track the problem. Contacting their admin 
indeed seems like the best way and let them deal with it.

Marc aka Caran...

Richard Williamson wrote:

>At 08:12 PM 2/15/02 -0500, Dan Lorey wrote:
>
>>>I've received it multiple times. :P
>>>
>> Oddly enough, I've never seen this particular error message, either
>>
>>from a post I've made or as an error message generated by someone else's
>
>>post. In general, error messages about list messages sent to full 
>>mailboxes end up getting bounced back to me as list owner instead of to 
>>the person who actually sent the message.
>>
>
>This means that animewhatzit.org's owner has there SNMP server
>mis-configured.  It's using the wrong header line to figure
>out to whom it should be sending its error messages.  The
>fact that it doesn't actually give the destination address
>in its return bounce (I've gotten it too.  I expect to get
>one from this post, also), means that they are *sniffs* 
>amateurs. 
>
>The only thing you can do is send an email as the list owner
>to 'postmaster@animenation.org', explain the above and ask that
>they send you a list of each domain they are handling so you
>can cross-check against the list...or they could just fix their
>damn SNMP server.
>
>>animenation.org. If that site does indeed host 50 domains, I have 
>>absolutely no clue about which of the great number of free web-based 
>>email addresses subscribed to the list might be bad. Even if all 
>>
>
>Easy ;-> unsubscribe everyone, and make us all resubscribe.
>
>rip
>
>




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Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 21:22:20 +0800
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Subject: Re: Guy Kay Gavarial Was Re: Book Availibility
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 21:22:20 +0800
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Shawn Chung <shawnc@starhub.net.sg>
Subject: Re: Guy Kay Gavarial Was Re: Book Availibility
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On Mon, 18 Feb 2002, Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au> wrote:

>  > >
>>  > That sounds an awful lot like Robert Jordan. I know fans find his work
>>  > boring lately, I still think it's wonderful. I am a bit annoyed 
>>at the fact
>>  > that he's already working on book 10 and going strong, and that he takes
>>  > around 2 years to write a book that takes me 2 days to read :-)
>
>Just wonder if anyone has read Guy's work.
>
>I've read Tigana, which was breathtaking, one of the best stand alone
>fantasy books I've read.
>
>Just started the Fionavar Tapestry, wonder if anyone could tell me what
>that is like (preferably giving away little as possible).
>
>Thanks
>Darragh
>-=-=
>www.iamtheporkfireman.com
>[Email]: s356179@student.uq.edu.au [ICQ]: 114283262

Guy Guviel Kay first came into prominence as the writer/editor that 
was retained by the Tolkien estate to compile JRR's notes into the 
Unfinished Tales.  Fionavar Tapestry was his first published work, 
and has a lot of Authurian influences.  When you get to the second or 
third book, you won't believe who turns up...

He's well noted for using historic themes and events for the setting 
of his books.  Lion of Al-Rassan, for example, was drawn from Spanish 
and Moorish history.

IMHO, Song for Arbonne is his best work, and I find him, like 
Tolkien, to be a writer that is able to weave a verbal tapestry of 
emotions, feelings and description.  He's currently finishing up his 
Sarantium series, which draws on Brazyntine<sp> history.
-- 
----

SeeYa StarSide

Shawn Chung



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--

On Mon, 18 Feb 2002 09:25:04  
 Richard Williamson wrote:
>At 02:50 PM 2/18/02 +1000, Darragh Murray wrote:
>>Just started the Fionavar Tapestry, wonder if anyone could tell me what
>>that is like (preferably giving away little as possible).
>
>Just finished Fionavar.  Tidy little books.  A little bit
>of everything.  
>
>Evil Godlike Being trying for dominion over the Good and True
>Peoples (Elves/Dwarves/Giants/Humans/etc).  True Love.  Arthurian
>Legends.  A dog.
>
>Hope that clears it up for you.  I liked them, but wasn't
>inspired to go read everything else he's writ.  
>
>At the moment, I'm reading Elizabeth Moon's Serrano series
>(Space Opera! ohman ohman ohman I'm in LOVE).
>
>Ray, have you ever met Elizabeth Moon? 


Rip, I warmly suggest you try the other books written by Kay. IMO, Kay
matured a lot over the years. I especially liked his most recent
"Sarantine mosaic".

Paddyjack

>
>rip
>
>


Check out Cupid School where you will learn from Matchmaker's
best and brightest. Good Luck!

http://ecard.matchmaker.com/cupid0202/cupid0202.html



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Subject: Re: OT: Elizabeth Moon (was Guy Kay Gavarial)
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Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 07:54:04 -0800
Subject: Re: OT: Elizabeth Moon (was Guy Kay Gavarial)
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
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On Monday, February 18, 2002, at 01:45 AM, Julie Wootten wrote:

>> At the moment, I'm reading Elizabeth Moon's Serrano series
>> (Space Opera! ohman ohman ohman I'm in LOVE).
>>
>> Ray, have you ever met Elizabeth Moon?
>>
>> rip
>
> I loved em too!  For something REALLY similar, try David Weber's
> Honor Harrington series.  First book is On Basilisk Station.
>
> Julie.
>
>
>
>
>
>

Somehow I missed rip's original question.

For reasons having nothing to do with the work, I refuse to read 
anything Elizabeth Moon has written.  This has to do with a political 
issue inside SFWA 20 years ago in which I believe she behaved very 
badly, indulging in personal attacks that were beyond the pale.  As a 
result, I've tossed ever manuscript sent to me for a blurb, and have 
done nothing to help her career.  I've don't nothing to harm it, either, 
btw.

Even if she's the best damn writer in the English language, I could not 
read her stuff; there are a couple of other authors I refuse to read 
because of personality issues.  Just can't do it.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: was: Guy Kay Gavarial
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Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 16:30:52 +0000
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: was: Guy Kay Gavarial
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At 09:19 AM 2/18/02 -0500, Paddyjack [ ] wrote:

>Rip, I warmly suggest you try the other books written by Kay. IMO, Kay matured a lot over the years. I especially liked his most recent "Sarantine mosaic".

I said I wasn't inspired to go out and read the rest of his
stuff, but that doesn't mean I won't pick up something else by
him later.  There are other titles on my plate as it were.

rip



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Subject: Re: OT: Elizabeth Moon (was Guy Kay Gavarial)
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At 07:54 AM 2/18/02 -0800, Raymond Feist wrote:
>>>Ray, have you ever met Elizabeth Moon?

>>>rip

>For reasons having nothing to do with the work, I refuse to read anything Elizabeth Moon has written.  This has to do with a political issue inside SFWA 20 years ago in which I believe she behaved very badly, indulging in personal attacks that were beyond the pale.  As a result, I've tossed ever manuscript sent to me for a blurb, and have done nothing to help her career.  I've don't nothing to harm it, either, btw.

Wow, politics.  I hope to never find myself in that situation.
Waste of Resources.

>Even if she's the best damn writer in the English language, I could not read her stuff; there are a couple of other authors I refuse to read because of personality issues.  Just can't do it.

I won't be rude and ask who ;-> but I'm pretty sure some of the younglings
on this list will have done so by the time you read this.





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Subject: Midkemian life expectancy was Re: Pug
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  (SoaDQ Spoiler)
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Larry Siegel" &amp;lt;larry@psihawk.com>
>Sent: Friday, February 15, 2002 12:26 AM
>Subject: Re: Pug

>>Thinking about Ray killing Pug off....
>>
>>Can you just imagine the power of the creature/being
>>that could pull that off.....?
>>
>>Then again.. Ray could just as easily have him slip on
>>a banana peel.....
>>
>>
>>Larry

Prince Arutha fell and broke his hip and died as a result.Of course he was
very old which brings me to this question: How can a people of a medieval
society live so long (Carline was about 70, Amos Trask, Gardan, Father Tully
Kulgan were in their 70's or 80's )? Is it diet or healing priests or
something else?
       
              Kev
Caution:TRUST ME



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From: Dun Xiahou <xiahoudun13@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Book Availibility
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Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 09:52:01 -0800 (PST)
From: Dun Xiahou <xiahoudun13@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Book Availibility
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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Personally I agree with you on the lack of new Jordan
material.  I'd rather he write smaller books and
release them faster.  I disagree with the books being
boring.  Book 8 I think was a bit slow, yes, but book
9 was fantastic.  Of course, that's mostly because of
the return of Mat.  That's just my opinion though.

 - Xiahou Dun

--- Jay <res0ibjw@verizon.net> wrote:
> 
> > Raymond Feist wrote:
> > >
> > > Two books: Talon of the Silver Hawk and King of
> Foxes.
> >
> > Hmm. Is that by design from the start then? You
> know we want this next
> > Riftwar to be 20 books long :)
> >
> > Craig J. Ries
> >
> >
> That sounds an awful lot like Robert Jordan. I know
> fans find his work
> boring lately, I still think it's wonderful. I am a
> bit annoyed at the fact
> that he's already working on book 10 and going
> strong, and that he takes
> around 2 years to write a book that takes me 2 days
> to read :-)
> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games
http://sports.yahoo.com



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From: "MChaloner" <markchaloner@btinternet.com>
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Subject: RE: Guy Kay Gavarial Was Re: Book Availibility
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 18:26:20 -0000
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> Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
> > <snip>
> > I've read Tigana, which was breathtaking, one of the best 
> stand alone 
> > fantasy books I've read.
> > <snip>
> Donal.

Yeah, Tigana was a bit of a corker, I must be honest (wish I still had
the book).

Mark ;-)



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On Mon, 18 Feb 2002 16:30:52  
 Richard Williamson wrote:
>At 09:19 AM 2/18/02 -0500, Paddyjack [ ] wrote:
>
>>Rip, I warmly suggest you try the other books written by Kay. IMO, Kay matured a lot over the years. I especially liked his most recent "Sarantine mosaic".
>
>I said I wasn't inspired to go out and read the rest of his
>stuff, but that doesn't mean I won't pick up something else by
>him later.  There are other titles on my plate as it were.
>
>rip
>
>

Yeah, I know what you mean, I have about 20 still unread books on my
shelves, waiting for me to notice them.

Paddyjack


Check out Cupid School where you will learn from Matchmaker's
best and brightest. Good Luck!

http://ecard.matchmaker.com/cupid0202/cupid0202.html



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Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 11:52:49 -0800
Subject: Re: Midkemian life expectancy was Re: Pug
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Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 11:52:49 -0800
Subject: Re: Midkemian life expectancy was Re: Pug
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Monday, February 18, 2002, at 09:46 AM, Kevin wrote:

>   (SoaDQ Spoiler)
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Larry Siegel" &amp;lt;larry@psihawk.com>
>> Sent: Friday, February 15, 2002 12:26 AM
>> Subject: Re: Pug
>
>>> Thinking about Ray killing Pug off....
>>>
>>> Can you just imagine the power of the creature/being
>>> that could pull that off.....?
>>>
>>> Then again.. Ray could just as easily have him slip on
>>> a banana peel.....
>>>
>>>
>>> Larry
>
> Prince Arutha fell and broke his hip and died as a result.Of course he 
> was
> very old which brings me to this question: How can a people of a 
> medieval
> society live so long (Carline was about 70, Amos Trask, Gardan, Father 
> Tully
> Kulgan were in their 70's or 80's )? Is it diet or healing priests or
> something else?
>
>
In the first place, it's not medieval.  This isn't Earth, remember?

Secondly, even in medieval times, people routinely made it into their 
90's.  What's misleading about those historical periods is the "life 
expectancy."  That's because there were so many fatalities along the 
way, childhood diseases, infectious diseases, wars, accidents, etc.  But 
if a man or woman was lucky and avoided dying at birth, from pox, from a 
wound that festered, etc.  and had a reasonable source of food and 
shelter, he/she could make it to a ripe old age.  It just didn't happen 
very often, statistically.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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From: Jimmre@aol.com
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 17:00:37 EST
Subject: Re: Pug
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> >  It wouldn't be that hard to do it non-trivially. Just throw him in against
> >a local equivalent of a balhiir (sp) or a nishiru. For the non-AD&D folk
> >these are creatures that literally eat magic. Spells just heal them and the
> >the latter can drain uncast spells from it's target. Send some of them to
> >soften Pug up then just stab him with a sword.
> >
> > Not that I'm asking for Pug to die of course.
> >
> > Allan
> >


The magic Pug could use does not have to be used
directly against the thing he is fighting. He could cast
a huge fireball at a cliff near the creature and bury it
in rubble or create a huge stone over its' head and let
it drop.

Just some ideas.
Jim



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From: RBlackley@aol.com
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 17:28:59 EST
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In a message dated 2/18/2002 5:06:52 PM Eastern Standard Time, Jimmre@aol.com 
writes:


> The magic Pug could use does not have to be used
> directly against the thing he is fighting. He could cast
> a huge fireball at a cliff near the creature and bury it
> in rubble or create a huge stone over its' head and let
> it drop.

what a good idea!

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From: "Stephen McClean" <stevemc3000@hotmail.com>
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Subject: sex and religion
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I haven't read all these posts because my hotmail account was off for
a cople of days and no to be honist i couldn't be assed to read 200
hundered so emails.

So abot sex in the westen countrys, there is a lot of sex before
marage, drugs, violence, divorce affers and so forth in our
countrys. But in the Christian Church none of this is ment to be
accepted there is ment to be no sex before marage. You are only ment
to be alowed to get divorced if you have been cheated on or you
partner is not a Christian and you are or if your partner dies. It
says in the bible that a man can not lay with another man so that
means you can't be gay. It also say that your body is a temple so you
have to treat it as such that means that you shouldn't drink smoke or
take other forms of drugs. And the only way to get to heven is through
Jesus gods son, so u have to ask him into your life to help you resist
temptation.

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Sorry i didn't get ur request to stop the sex and religion topic to
after i sent my post.

But it was worth the try.

Steve AKA MORG

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      Hi Ray I was just wondering. Do you read a lot of other fanticy 
writers books? Because I run a dnd game and people keep pointing out that I 
am using names and plots from diffrent books and films, but I don't know 
I've did it to they point it out. So have you ever wrote something only to 
realise you have used a charter out of one of eddings books and have to go 
back and think of a new name or town?

Thanx
Steve AKA Morg

ROCK ON

_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx



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*** EOOH ***
From: RavusLupus@aol.com
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 18:55:08 EST
Subject: Re: Final Chapter?
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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In a message dated 18/02/2002 09:28:29 GMT Standard Time, 
richard.williamson@windriver.com writes:


> At 08:04 AM 2/16/02 -0800, Raymond Feist wrote:
> > Jim Rigney, who writes under the name Robert Jordan 
> >(and Regan O'Neil and a couple of others over his career) 
> >has an idea of what he's doing.  
> >I think the problem he's facing is that he's created an "ending" that's 
> tough to pull off: he's talking about a "wheel" in which everything ends up 
> where it started.  Dramatically, the closer to the end you get, the less 
> you can do.
> 
> Been there, done that.  I explored that very same theme*
> in my first novel, SOS, available in PDF (300Kb) to interested
> parties.
> 
> I admit that I pulled it off in one book instead of (12? 13? 147?)
> however many, but I only had a month to do it in.
> 
> rip
> * (rolling all over myself laughing at the pomposity)
> -- 
>          --- One Month --- 50,000 words --- One Novel ---
>                   http://www.nanowrimo.com/
> 
> 

is it any good?

Jaszon.

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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 18:07:45 -0800
Subject: Re: 
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Monday, February 18, 2002, at 03:54 PM, Stephen McClean wrote:

>
>      Hi Ray I was just wondering. Do you read a lot of other fanticy 
> writers books? Because I run a dnd game and people keep pointing out 
> that I am using names and plots from diffrent books and films, but I 
> don't know I've did it to they point it out. So have you ever wrote 
> something only to realise you have used a charter out of one of eddings 
> books and have to go back and think of a new name or town?
>

"Fanticy?"  If you mean do I read a lot of other people's fantasy, no I 
do not.

There are inadvertent borrowings, all the time.  One that springs to 
mind is the ship Pug & Tomas found is actually one I saw as a kid in the 
old Korda Brother's film, The Thief of Bagdad, but I didn't realize it 
until years after I wrote the book and saw the film again.

Best, R.e.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Subject: Re: sex and religion
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 02:48:22 -0000
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From: "donald.c" <donald.c@ntlworld.com>
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Subject: Re: sex and religion
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 02:48:22 -0000
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And your point is?

                  Don.
"Don't force yours on me and I wont force mine on yours"
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: Stephen McClean 
>To: FEISTFANS-L 
>Sent: Monday, February 18, 2002 11:21 PM
>Subject: sex and religion
>
>
>
>
>
>I haven't read all these posts because my hotmail account was off
>for a cople of days and no to be honist i couldn't be assed to read
>200 hundered so emails.
>
>So abot sex in the westen countrys, there is a lot of sex before
>marage, drugs, violence, divorce affers and so forth in our
>countrys. But in the Christian Church none of this is ment to be
>accepted there is ment to be no sex before marage. You are only ment
>to be alowed to get divorced if you have been cheated on or you
>partner is not a Christian and you are or if your partner dies. It
>says in the bible that a man can not lay with another man so that
>means you can't be gay. It also say that your body is a temple so
>you have to treat it as such that means that you shouldn't drink
>smoke or take other forms of drugs. And the only way to get to heven
>is through Jesus gods son, so u have to ask him into your life to
>help you resist temptation.

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Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 19:08:45 -0800
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>And your point is?

Hidden beneath the cap.

Alan
-- 
Mythusmage.com <http://www.mythusmage.com>
Writing Practice at: <http://www.gamingoutpost.com>

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*** EOOH ***
From: "dbradley_1" <dbradley_1@msn.com>
To: "Feist Fans" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Book List
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 22:04:50 -0600
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As near as I can tell, this is a complete list of Ray Feist's works.
Please add any that you don't see on here.

The Riftwar Saga
Magician
Silverthorn
A Darkness at Sethanon
    Note: Magician has also been published in two parts:
Magician: Apprentice
Magician: Master

The Empire Trilogy
    (Co-authored with Janny Wurts)
Daughter of the Empire
Servant of the Empire
Mistress of the Empire

The Riftwar Legacy
Krondor: The Betrayal
Krondor: The Assassins
Krondor: The Tear of the Gods
Krondor: The Crawler *
Krondor: The Dark Mage *

Other Midkemia Books
Prince of the Blood
The King's Buccaneer

The Serpentwar Saga
Shadow of a Dark Queen
Rise of a Merchant Prince
Rage of a Demon King
Shards of a Broken Crown

Legends of the Riftwar (Released in the U.K.)
    (Co-authored with William Forstchen)
Honoured Enemy
    (Co-authored with Joel Rosenberg)
Murder In LaMut *
    (Co-authored with ?)
Jimmy the Hand *

Conclave of the Shadows
Talon of the Silverhawk *
The King of Foxes *

Third Riftwar Series
(Three Books) *

Other Books
Faerie Tale

Short Stories
Profit and the Grey Assassin
Geroldo's Incredible Trick
The Wood Boy
Alien Wine

* Books not yet published.

    -Jacko Rougburn

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Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 20:54:18 -0800
Subject: Re: Book List
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Monday, February 18, 2002, at 08:04 PM, dbradley_1 wrote:

> As near as I can tell, this is a complete list of Ray Feist's works.  
> Please add any that you don't see on here.
>  
> The Riftwar Saga
> Magician
> Silverthorn
> A Darkness at Sethanon
>     Note: Magician has also been published in two parts:
> Magician: Apprentice
> Magician: Master
>  
> The Empire Trilogy
>     (Co-authored with Janny Wurts)
> Daughter of the Empire
> Servant of the Empire
> Mistress of the Empire
>  
> The Riftwar Legacy
> Krondor: The Betrayal
> Krondor: The Assassins
> Krondor: The Tear of the Gods
> Krondor: The Crawler *
> Krondor: The Dark Mage *

Try "Not Yet Written" for those two.
>  
> Other Midkemia Books
> Prince of the Blood
> The King's Buccaneer
>  
> The Serpentwar Saga
> Shadow of a Dark Queen
> Rise of a Merchant Prince
> Rage of a Demon King
> Shards of a Broken Crown
>  
> Legends of the Riftwar (Released in the U.K.)
>     (Co-authored with William Forstchen)
> Honoured Enemy
>     (Co-authored with Joel Rosenberg)
> Murder In LaMut *
>     (Co-authored with ?)
> Jimmy the Hand *

S.M. Stirling.
>  
> Conclave of the Shadows
> Talon of the Silverhawk *
> The King of Foxes *

No "The." Just King of Foxes
>  
> Third Riftwar Series
> (Three Books) *
>  
> Other Books
> Faerie Tale
>  
> Short Stories
> Profit and the Grey Assassin
> Geroldo's Incredible Trick
> The Wood Boy
> Alien Wine
>  
> * Books not yet published.
>  
>     -Jacko Rougburn
>
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.

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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 21:05:51 -0800
From: Carl Dershem <dershem@cox.net>
Organization: Project Selene
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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> dbradley_1 wrote:
> 
> As near as I can tell, this is a complete list of Ray Feist's works.
> Please add any that you don't see on here.

>     (Co-authored with ?)
> Jimmy the Hand *


Co-written with Steve Stirling, if memory serves.

cd
-- 
Death to all Absolutists!



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Subject: Re: Book List
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Western Rhythm" <info@westernrhythm.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Book List
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 13:36:53 +0800
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That's a lot of books.
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: dbradley_1 
>To: Feist Fans 
>Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2002 12:04 PM
>Subject: Book List
>
>
>As near as I can tell, this is a complete list of Ray Feist's works.  Please add any that you don't see on here.
>
>The Riftwar Saga
>Magician
>Silverthorn
>A Darkness at Sethanon
>    Note: Magician has also been published in two parts:
>Magician: Apprentice
>Magician: Master
>
>The Empire Trilogy
>    (Co-authored with Janny Wurts)
>Daughter of the Empire
>Servant of the Empire
>Mistress of the Empire
>
>The Riftwar Legacy
>Krondor: The Betrayal
>Krondor: The Assassins
>Krondor: The Tear of the Gods
>Krondor: The Crawler *
>Krondor: The Dark Mage *
>
>Other Midkemia Books
>Prince of the Blood
>The King's Buccaneer
>
>The Serpentwar Saga
>Shadow of a Dark Queen
>Rise of a Merchant Prince
>Rage of a Demon King
>Shards of a Broken Crown
>
>Legends of the Riftwar (Released in the U.K.)
>    (Co-authored with William Forstchen)
>Honoured Enemy
>    (Co-authored with Joel Rosenberg)
>Murder In LaMut *
>    (Co-authored with ?)
>Jimmy the Hand *
>
>Conclave of the Shadows
>Talon of the Silverhawk *
>The King of Foxes *
>
>Third Riftwar Series
>(Three Books) *
>
>Other Books
>Faerie Tale
>
>Short Stories
>Profit and the Grey Assassin
>Geroldo's Incredible Trick
>The Wood Boy
>Alien Wine
>
>* Books not yet published.
>
>    -Jacko Rougburn

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From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
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Subject: Re: OT: LOTR question
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 00:25:24 -0600
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT: LOTR question
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 00:25:24 -0600
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    Both close but still no cigar...the answer is Orthanc and Minas
Morgul.  Cirith Ungol is both the pass and the tower, but the tower
is not dealt with until the third book.  (If you are wondering why I
say this, it is because it is stated very clearly in my 50th
anniversary edition set where Tolkien chose the names for the books)

-James

> You are probably thinking of Minas Tirith and Minas Morgul.
> (Originally named Minas Anor and Minas Ithil, the Tower of the Sun and the
> Tower of the Moon.)
>
> That is not the correct answer though.
>
> The correct answer is that the two towers in the title are Orthanc in
> Isengard and the guard tower at Cirith Ungol.
>
> (Both of them were also built by Gondor originally and later taken over by
> evil.)



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Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 08:43:04 +0100
From: Erik Trulsson <ertr1013@student.uu.se>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT: LOTR question
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On Tue, Feb 19, 2002 at 12:25:24AM -0600, James Young wrote:
>     Both close but still no cigar...the answer is Orthanc and Minas
> Morgul.  Cirith Ungol is both the pass and the tower, but the tower
> is not dealt with until the third book.  (If you are wondering why I
> say this, it is because it is stated very clearly in my 50th
> anniversary edition set where Tolkien chose the names for the books)

See http://members.cts.com/king/e/erikt/tolkien/2towers.htm for some
quotations from Tolkien himself on this matter.

Short version:  Tolkien himself wasn't quite sure what the title
referred to, but eventually decided on Ortanc and Cirith Ungol.

> 
> -James
> 
> > You are probably thinking of Minas Tirith and Minas Morgul.
> > (Originally named Minas Anor and Minas Ithil, the Tower of the Sun
> and the
> > Tower of the Moon.)
> >
> > That is not the correct answer though.
> >
> > The correct answer is that the two towers in the title are Orthanc
> in
> > Isengard and the guard tower at Cirith Ungol.
> >
> > (Both of them were also built by Gondor originally and later taken
> over by
> > evil.)
> 

-- 
<Insert your favourite quote here.>
Erik Trulsson
ertr1013@student.uu.se



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From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: FeistFans <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Midkemian life expectancy was Re: Pug
In-Reply-To: <3C713E04.000003.04149@kevinetter.pacbell.net>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 17:44:32 +1000 (GMT+1000)
From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: FeistFans <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
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> very old which brings me to this question: How can a people of a medieval
> society live so long (Carline was about 70, Amos Trask, Gardan, Father Tully
> Kulgan were in their 70's or 80's )? Is it diet or healing priests or
> something else?
>               Kev
> Caution:TRUST ME


Cause they're fictious, and can do whatever they damn want:)....


Thanks
Darragh
-=-=
www.iamtheporkfireman.com
[Email]: s356179@student.uq.edu.au [ICQ]: 114283262



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Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 09:08:07 +0000
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From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: Final Chapter?
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At 06:55 PM 2/18/02 -0500, RavusLupus@aol.com wrote:
>In a message dated 18/02/2002 09:28:29 GMT Standard Time, richard.williamson@windriver.com writes:
>>At 08:04 AM 2/16/02 -0800, Raymond Feist wrote:
>>> Jim Rigney, who writes under the name Robert Jordan 
>>>(and Regan O'Neil and a couple of others over his career) 
>>>has an idea of what he's doing.  
>>>I think the problem he's facing is that he's created an 
>>>"ending" that's tough to pull off: he's talking about a 
>>>"wheel" in which everything ends up where it started.  
>>>Dramatically, the closer to the end you get, the less 
>>>you can do.

>>Been there, done that.  I explored that very same theme*
>>in my first novel, SOS, available in PDF (300Kb) to interested
>>parties.
>>
>>I admit that I pulled it off in one book instead of (12? 13? 147?)
>>however many, but I only had a month to do it in.
>>
>>rip
>>* (rolling all over myself laughing at the pomposity)
>>-- 
>>         --- One Month --- 50,000 words --- One Novel ---
>>                  http://www.nanowrimo.com/
>
>
>is it any good?

It is by far the best novel I ever wrote....um, which is
easy to say because it is the only novel I've ever finished.

As for if it is quality, you'll need to ask Bret Robideaux,
as he's the only lister who's read it.  In case you are
wondering, it is Space Opera as opposed to modern fantasy.

rip



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In-reply-to: <a05100300b8977224cf14@[209.68.218.153]> (message from Alan
	Kellogg on Mon, 18 Feb 2002 19:08:45 -0800)
Subject: Re: sex and religion
References: <F258arcJgtUtNYgqcrq0001b59c@hotmail.com>
 <000d01c1b8ef$e6b1efc0$0f94fc3e@tinyosgyfpek> <a05100300b8977224cf14@[209.68.218.153]>
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Donal K. Fellows" <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: sex and religion
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 09:09:30 +0000
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Alan Kellogg <mythusmage@cts.com>
>> And your point is?
> Hidden beneath the cap.

That was uncalled for.  The first point is that he has apologised for
bringing up a banned subject, and the second point is that we shall
let this lie without stirring up anyone's feelings.

Move along.  Nothing to see here.

Donal.
-- 
Donal K. Fellows, Department of Computer Science, University of Manchester, UK.
(work) fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk     Tel: +44-161-275-6137  (preferred email addr.)
(home) donal@ugglan.demon.co.uk  Tel: +44-1274-401017   Mobile: +44-7957-298955
http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~fellowsd/  (Don't quote my .sig; I've seen it before!)



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Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 06:30:35 -0800
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From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
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Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 06:30:35 -0800
Subject: Re: Book List
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Monday, February 18, 2002, at 09:36 PM, Western Rhythm wrote:

> That's a lot of books.

Well, it keeps me off the street and out of pool halls.

Best, R.E.F.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: dbradley_1
> To: Feist Fans
> Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2002 12:04 PM
> Subject: Book List
>
> As near as I can tell, this is a complete list of Ray Feist's works.  
> Please add any that you don't see on here.
>  
> The Riftwar Saga
> Magician
> Silverthorn
> A Darkness at Sethanon
>     Note: Magician has also been published in two parts:
> Magician: Apprentice
> Magician: Master
>  
> The Empire Trilogy
>     (Co-authored with Janny Wurts)
> Daughter of the Empire
> Servant of the Empire
> Mistress of the Empire
>  
> The Riftwar Legacy
> Krondor: The Betrayal
> Krondor: The Assassins
> Krondor: The Tear of the Gods
> Krondor: The Crawler *
> Krondor: The Dark Mage *
>  
> Other Midkemia Books
> Prince of the Blood
> The King's Buccaneer
>  
> The Serpentwar Saga
> Shadow of a Dark Queen
> Rise of a Merchant Prince
> Rage of a Demon King
> Shards of a Broken Crown
>  
> Legends of the Riftwar (Released in the U.K.)
>     (Co-authored with William Forstchen)
> Honoured Enemy
>     (Co-authored with Joel Rosenberg)
> Murder In LaMut *
>     (Co-authored with ?)
> Jimmy the Hand *
>  
> Conclave of the Shadows
> Talon of the Silverhawk *
> The King of Foxes *
>  
> Third Riftwar Series
> (Three Books) *
>  
> Other Books
> Faerie Tale
>  
> Short Stories
> Profit and the Grey Assassin
> Geroldo's Incredible Trick
> The Wood Boy
> Alien Wine
>  
> * Books not yet published.
>  
>     -Jacko Rougburn
>
>
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.

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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 07:03:10 -0800
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Alan Kellogg <mythusmage@cts.com>
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>  On Monday, February 18, 2002, at 09:36 PM, Western Rhythm wrote:
>
>>That's a lot of books.
>
>Well, it keeps me off the street and out of pool halls.
>
>Best, R.E.F.

But it does put him in the dark corners of bookstores and in the 
odder aisles of the Unseen University's Library.

Alan
-- 
Mythusmage.com <http://www.mythusmage.com>
Writing Practice at: <http://www.gamingoutpost.com>

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From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Alien Wine & Daniel R. Horne
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Man, and I thought I had all Ray's stuff. What is the Alien Wine story 
about, and does anyone know where I can get a copy??????


Also, Does anyone know where I could find a collection of artwork by Daniel 
R. Horne? He did a cover on an old Dragon Magazine that I would so 
Looooooovvvvvvvveeeeee to get a print of.

Thanks for any insight

Jimmy

_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx



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From: "Paul Dutton" <duttz@tiscali.co.uk>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: LOTR question
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 15:48:24 -0000
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From: "Paul Dutton" <duttz@tiscali.co.uk>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: LOTR question
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 15:48:24 -0000
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Allan,
Barad-Dur in Mordor and Orthanc in Isengard?
Paul

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Allan Mills
> Sent: 18 February 2002 11:05
> To: FEISTFANS-L
> Subject: OT: LOTR question
> 
> 
>  I was discussing the movie with some friends recently and one unanswered
> question came up. The second book is called the Two Tower. Which 
> two towers
> are they talking about?
> 
>  Allan
> 



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From: "Paul Dutton" <duttz@tiscali.co.uk>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: OT: LOTR question
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 15:50:37 -0000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Paul Dutton" <duttz@tiscali.co.uk>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: OT: LOTR question
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 15:50:37 -0000
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Donal,
You're thinking of Minas Ithil now called Minas Morgul & Minas Anor now
called Minas Tirith?
Paul

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Donal K. Fellows
> Sent: 18 February 2002 11:27
> To: FEISTFANS-L
> Subject: Re: OT: LOTR question
>
>
> "Allan Mills" <amills1@bigpond.net.au>
> >  I was discussing the movie with some friends recently and one
> unanswered
> > question came up. The second book is called the Two Tower.
> Which two towers
> > are they talking about?
>
> IIRC, they were built by Gondor, one of which is now the capital of
> Gondor, and the other of which was taken over by Mordor.  However, it
> is many years since I read tLotR so I do not remember their names.
>
> Donal.
>



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Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 13:03:45 -0300
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From: Javier Dussaillant <ashkar@vrweb.cl>
Subject: Re: Alien Wine & Daniel R. Horne
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 13:03:45 -0300
From: Javier Dussaillant <ashkar@vrweb.cl>
Subject: Re: Alien Wine & Daniel R. Horne
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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At 10:26 AM 2/19/2002 -0500, you wrote:
>Man, and I thought I had all Ray's stuff. What is the Alien Wine story 
>about, and does anyone know where I can get a copy??????

It is not a srtory really, but an article. You can find it at 
http://www.crydee.com, inside the section 'Miscellaneous Artifacts'->'Alien 
Wine'.



>Also, Does anyone know where I could find a collection of artwork by 
>Daniel R. Horne? He did a cover on an old Dragon Magazine that I would so 
>Looooooovvvvvvvveeeeee to get a print of.

Try http://images.google.com :)


>Thanks for any insight
>
>Jimmy
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
>http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx

         Saludos,

                 Javier Dussaillant G.
                 ashkar@vrweb.cl
                 Departamento de Desarrollo VRWEB ltda.
                 http://www.vrweb.cl



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*** EOOH ***
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From: "Milamber" <milamber_aka_pug@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re: Book List
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 16:07:35 -0000
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But not always I bet Ray? ;-)
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: Raymond Feist 
>To: FEISTFANS-L 
>Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2002 2:30 PM
>Subject: Re: Book List
>
>
>On Monday, February 18, 2002, at 09:36 PM, Western Rhythm wrote:
>
>
>  That's a lot of books.
>
>
>Well, it keeps me off the street and out of pool halls.
>
>Best, R.E.F.

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In-reply-to: <001a01c1b95d$2ca82a40$d7cc403e@mcc.ac.uk> (duttz@tiscali.co.uk)
Subject: Re: OT: LOTR question
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Donal K. Fellows" <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT: LOTR question
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 16:12:42 +0000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

"Paul Dutton" <duttz@tiscali.co.uk>
> You're thinking of Minas Ithil now called Minas Morgul & Minas Anor now
> called Minas Tirith?

Could be.  I've not read tLotR for about 15 years, but Minas ...
something-or-other rings a bell, and I do remember that they both had
the same first part and both had changed the second parts.

Donal.
-- 
Donal K. Fellows, Department of Computer Science, University of Manchester, UK.
(work) fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk     Tel: +44-161-275-6137  (preferred email addr.)
(home) donal@ugglan.demon.co.uk  Tel: +44-1274-401017   Mobile: +44-7957-298955
http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~fellowsd/  (Don't quote my .sig; I've seen it before!)



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From: "Nevyn" <alien4@wasp.net.au>
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Subject: Concerning Pug . . .
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Nevyn" <alien4@wasp.net.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Concerning Pug . . .
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 00:14:53 +0800
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I was just reading all the messages about the feared "death of Pug"
*L* And just watching everyones reaction to it, and then Rays reply,
"hes just a character in a book" -- Yes, indeed, however, but I
believe that to some who immerse themselves into the story as they
read it, Pug becomes a sort of a role model, someone who to look upto
in times or difficulty -- even though he is only an imaginary
character, i believe, to many of us, he becomes a sort of mentor -- >
We see his self-confidence at the destruction of the Emperors games,
and so that self confidence is mirrored onto us, and we become Pug at
the games when we are faced against something which attacks our
personal value system. This is just an example to try to explain how I
percieve this; I could go on, but I shan't.

Am I making sense? This is just what came to my mind. I hope you all
understand, in my attempt to justify why many would actually feel the
death of a close one, when reading Pugs death. *L* It sounds crazy, I
know, but this is what happens with good literature.

Thanks,
              Nevyn
_______________________________________________________________________

Not every love, but only that which has a noble purpose, is noble and worthy of praise.
 
- Plato (c. 428-348 BC)
_______________________________________________________________________

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Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: "Terri Lyn Layman" <terrilyn@ameritech.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Book List
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 11:38:43 -0500
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On
>Behalf Of Western Rhythm
>Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2002 12:37 AM
>To: FEISTFANS-L
>Subject: Re: Book List
>
> That's a lot of books.
>     <snipped original book list>

    Of course it's a lot of books and stories!  He's been at it for a very
long time!  And God(dess) willing will be at it for a very very long time
yet to come!

    -TerriLyn

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From: "Terri Lyn Layman" <terrilyn@ameritech.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Book List
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 11:43:24 -0500
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*** EOOH ***
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: "Terri Lyn Layman" <terrilyn@ameritech.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Book List
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 11:43:24 -0500
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


  -----Original Message-----
>  From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Raymond Feist
>  Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2002 9:31 AM
>  To: FEISTFANS-L
>  Subject: Re: Book List
>
>
>  On Monday, February 18, 2002, at 09:36 PM, Western Rhythm wrote:
>
>
>    That's a lot of books.
>
>
>  Well, it keeps me off the street and out of pool halls.
>
>  Best, R.E.F.
>
>    <snip>

  I'd be more worried about off the local vineyards and out of the cellars.

  -TerriLyn (Who's recently discovered the joy of fruit wines.  Have you
ever made any of those?  Gah, I could really go for a good glass of Cabernet
Sauv. right now, but it's not even noon!)

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Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 11:51:02 EST
Subject: Re: Final Chapter?
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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*** EOOH ***
From: RavusLupus@aol.com
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 11:51:02 EST
Subject: Re: Final Chapter?
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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In a message dated 19/02/2002 09:15:35 GMT Standard Time, 
richard.williamson@windriver.com writes:


> At 06:55 PM 2/18/02 -0500, RavusLupus@aol.com wrote:
> >In a message dated 18/02/2002 09:28:29 GMT Standard Time, 
> richard.williamson@windriver.com writes:
> >>At 08:04 AM 2/16/02 -0800, Raymond Feist wrote:
> >>> Jim Rigney, who writes under the name Robert Jordan 
> >>>(and Regan O'Neil and a couple of others over his career) 
> >>>has an idea of what he's doing.  
> >>>I think the problem he's facing is that he's created an 
> >>>"ending" that's tough to pull off: he's talking about a 
> >>>"wheel" in which everything ends up where it started.  
> >>>Dramatically, the closer to the end you get, the less 
> >>>you can do.
> 
> >>Been there, done that.  I explored that very same theme*
> >>in my first novel, SOS, available in PDF (300Kb) to interested
> >>parties.
> >>
> >>I admit that I pulled it off in one book instead of (12? 13? 147?)
> >>however many, but I only had a month to do it in.
> >>
> >>rip
> >>* (rolling all over myself laughing at the pomposity)
> >>-- 
> >>         --- One Month --- 50,000 words --- One Novel ---
> >>                  http://www.nanowrimo.com/
> >
> >
> >is it any good?
> 
> It is by far the best novel I ever wrote....um, which is
> easy to say because it is the only novel I've ever finished.
> 
> As for if it is quality, you'll need to ask Bret Robideaux,
> as he's the only lister who's read it.  In case you are
> wondering, it is Space Opera as opposed to modern fantasy.
> 
> rip
> 
> 

so, Bret, is it good?

and where can I get it?? 

Jaszon

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Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 08:50:17 -0800
Subject: Re: Alien Wine & Daniel R. Horne
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 08:50:17 -0800
Subject: Re: Alien Wine & Daniel R. Horne
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Tuesday, February 19, 2002, at 07:26 AM, James Silva wrote:

> Man, and I thought I had all Ray's stuff. What is the Alien Wine story 
> about, and does anyone know where I can get a copy??????

"Alien Wine" is not a short story, but a very short essay I did for Pat 
LoBrutto at Doubleday, as part of the Foundation launch (anyone remember 
when Doubleday started Foundation, for, oh, about twenty minutes? so 
that "Spectra/Foundation = Science Fiction!).  It was in the original 
Doubleday catalogue, if memory serves.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 08:59:14 -0800
Subject: Re: Book List
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On Tuesday, February 19, 2002, at 08:07 AM, Milamber wrote:

> But not always I bet Ray? ;-)
>
>

Haven't set foot in a pool hall in 30 years.

(Now, you noticed I didn't say a damn thing about strip clubs)

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.
>

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From: "Terri Lyn Layman" <terrilyn@ameritech.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Strip clubs (was RE: Book List)
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 12:13:29 -0500
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*** EOOH ***
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: "Terri Lyn Layman" <terrilyn@ameritech.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Strip clubs (was RE: Book List)
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 12:13:29 -0500
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

 Hehe... I've not been to a strip club in 5 months and 8 days.

But then again, I've been ravingly broke too.

Last time we went (hubby and I) it was on 9/11, and we were just so beyond
tired of seeing *it* on TV, hearing about *it* on the radio, and every damn
website having some sort of commentary about *it*.

We needed to get away from the "noise", so we decided to get away from as
much media as possible.

Food was out, as many of our favorite resturants have TV's in them.

So, we went to the strip club.  It still had a TV in it, but they had it
shut off for once.

I guess it was in retrospect somewhere around sacriligious, but we did
escape for a couple hours fairly well.

-TerriLyn


> -----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On
>Behalf Of Raymond Feist
>Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2002 11:59 AM
>To: FEISTFANS-L
>Subject: Re: Book List
>
>
>  On Tuesday, February 19, 2002, at 08:07 AM, Milamber wrote:
>
>
>    But not always I bet Ray? ;-)
>
>
>
>
>  Haven't set foot in a pool hall in 30 years.
>
>  (Now, you noticed I didn't say a damn thing about strip clubs)
>
>  Best, R.E.F.
>  ----
>
>  Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
>stupidity.

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From: Larry Scroggins <falling_98@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Strip clubs (was RE: Book List)
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 10:14:17 -0800 (PST)
From: Larry Scroggins <falling_98@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Strip clubs (was RE: Book List)
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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Can anyone say "coolest wife ever"?  I'm afraid to even bring up the
subject of strip clubs to my girlfriend for fear that I'll have to listen
to her complain about how all those women are objectifying(sp?)
themselves.  I'm getting the shakes just thinking about it.

--- Terri Lyn Layman <terrilyn@ameritech.net> wrote:
>  Hehe... I've not been to a strip club in 5 months and 8 days.
> 
> But then again, I've been ravingly broke too.
> 
> Last time we went (hubby and I) it was on 9/11, and we were just so
> beyond
> tired of seeing *it* on TV, hearing about *it* on the radio, and every
> damn
> website having some sort of commentary about *it*.
> 
> We needed to get away from the "noise", so we decided to get away from
> as
> much media as possible.
> 
> Food was out, as many of our favorite resturants have TV's in them.
> 
> So, we went to the strip club.  It still had a TV in it, but they had it
> shut off for once.
> 
> I guess it was in retrospect somewhere around sacriligious, but we did
> escape for a couple hours fairly well.
> 
> -TerriLyn
> 
> 
>  -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On
> Behalf Of Raymond Feist
> Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2002 11:59 AM
> To: FEISTFANS-L
> Subject: Re: Book List
> 
> 
>   On Tuesday, February 19, 2002, at 08:07 AM, Milamber wrote:
> 
> 
>     But not always I bet Ray? ;-)
> 
> 
> 
> 
>   Haven't set foot in a pool hall in 30 years.
> 
>   (Now, you noticed I didn't say a damn thing about strip clubs)
> 
>   Best, R.E.F.
>   ----
> 
>   Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
> stupidity.
> 
> 
> 
> 


=====
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Larry Scroggins

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games
http://sports.yahoo.com



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From: "MChaloner" <markchaloner@btinternet.com>
To: "feistfans-l" <feistfans-l@cornell.edu>
Subject: Silverthorn, The King's Buccaneer & Jimmy the Hand
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 18:21:58 -0000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "MChaloner" <markchaloner@btinternet.com>
To: "feistfans-l" <feistfans-l@cornell.edu>
Subject: Silverthorn, The King's Buccaneer & Jimmy the Hand
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 18:21:58 -0000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I was getting a bit bored after finishing all my fantasy books - (Andre
Norton & Mercedes Lackey, Roger Taylor, Jonathan Wylie etc) - so I
decided to re-read a Feist book. Something I've not done in a long time.
So I chose The King's Buccaneer. It's been on my book case for a while
and it's seemed to be calling out to me for a while as well. I looked at
all the Midkemia books and I was left with few  options - re-read The
King's Buccaneer - or re-read something else!
A while ago I was asked what my favourite Feist book was and I said
Siverthorn without hesitation - (I won't go into why and I'm sure others
have there own personal favourites). As I started to read The King's
Buccaneer, I realised why it's been beckoning to me for such a while
now. It's because it comes a damn close second to Silverthorn. And I
realised why. It's because they're such good adventure stories. In a
way, they seem to be coincidentally connected to the Riftwars - they
could both almost stand on their own as stand-alone books. They're just
good fun adventure stories - despite the (at times) anguish occurring in
both books.
So, at last to the point! <laughs> ("finally")
The Jimmy the Hand book that's going to be written sometime whenever - I
wonder what we can expect to see? Is it going to be a fun adventure
story. Jimmy the Hand is... well - Jimmy the Hand! <grins> As it's a
Tales of the Riftwar book, I'm assuming (there goes that assumption mode
again) that it'll only loosely be connected to the Riftwar - if at all.
So I guess what I'm asking is - is it going to be the rip-roaring
adventure I hope for?

---
mark ;-)
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
'A man who sees a god in his master, scarcely hopes for paradise'
- Marquis de Custine
markchaloner@btinternet.com



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Subject: Re: Strip clubs (was RE: Book List)
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Julie Wootten" <wootten@xtra.co.nz>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Strip clubs (was RE: Book List)
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From: "Larry Scroggins" <falling_98@yahoo.com>
> Can anyone say "coolest wife ever"?  I'm afraid to even bring up the
> subject of strip clubs to my girlfriend for fear that I'll have to listen
> to her complain about how all those women are objectifying(sp?)
> themselves.  I'm getting the shakes just thinking about it.

Suggest she go out for a Girl's Night Out with her friends to a 
male strip revue.  I've not met a woman yet that has been to one
and not had fun.  Her complaints from then on should be limited
to the "sleaze value" of the particular club you visit.

Julie.  





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Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 14:56:26 -0800
Subject: Re: Silverthorn, The King's Buccaneer & Jimmy the Hand
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 14:56:26 -0800
Subject: Re: Silverthorn, The King's Buccaneer & Jimmy the Hand
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Tuesday, February 19, 2002, at 10:21 AM, MChaloner wrote:

> I was getting a bit bored after finishing all my fantasy books - (Andre
> Norton & Mercedes Lackey, Roger Taylor, Jonathan Wylie etc) - so I
> decided to re-read a Feist book. Something I've not done in a long time.
> So I chose The King's Buccaneer. It's been on my book case for a while
> and it's seemed to be calling out to me for a while as well. I looked at
> all the Midkemia books and I was left with few  options - re-read The
> King's Buccaneer - or re-read something else!
> A while ago I was asked what my favourite Feist book was and I said
> Siverthorn without hesitation - (I won't go into why and I'm sure others
> have there own personal favourites). As I started to read The King's
> Buccaneer, I realised why it's been beckoning to me for such a while
> now. It's because it comes a damn close second to Silverthorn. And I
> realised why. It's because they're such good adventure stories. In a
> way, they seem to be coincidentally connected to the Riftwars - they
> could both almost stand on their own as stand-alone books. They're just
> good fun adventure stories - despite the (at times) anguish occurring in
> both books.
> So, at last to the point! <laughs> ("finally")
> The Jimmy the Hand book that's going to be written sometime whenever - I
> wonder what we can expect to see? Is it going to be a fun adventure
> story. Jimmy the Hand is... well - Jimmy the Hand! <grins> As it's a
> Tales of the Riftwar book, I'm assuming (there goes that assumption mode
> again) that it'll only loosely be connected to the Riftwar - if at all.
> So I guess what I'm asking is - is it going to be the rip-roaring
> adventure I hope for?
>

It's Jimmy's "1st" adventure. It picks up right after he helps Arutha 
get Anita out of Krondor and details his first attempt to carving out 
his own little empire beyond the reach of the Upright Man, and why he's 
back in the fold with the Mockers by the time Silverthorn starts.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 23:04:37 -0000
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Nah - Ray just gets his place names off maps of the world.

BJS
(Born in Taunton :-)

PS - Slightly OT: Who reads Terry Brooks? Now, he definitely gets his
influences from the places he visits on holiday. Chew Magna is near Bristol
and Maentwrog is up in North Wales. We went there on Boxing Day, but could
not spot any malevolent looking trees!

-----Original Message-----
>From: Stephen McClean [mailto:stevemc3000@hotmail.com]
>Sent: 18 February 2002 23:54
>To: FEISTFANS-L
>Subject:
>
>
>
>      Hi Ray I was just wondering. Do you read a lot of other fanticy
>writers books? Because I run a dnd game and people keep pointing out that I
>am using names and plots from diffrent books and films, but I don't know
>I've did it to they point it out. So have you ever wrote something only to
>realise you have used a charter out of one of eddings books and have to go
>back and think of a new name or town?
>
>Thanx
>Steve AKA Morg
>
>ROCK ON
>


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From: "MChaloner" <markchaloner@btinternet.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Silverthorn, The King's Buccaneer & Jimmy the Hand
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 23:05:41 -0000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "MChaloner" <markchaloner@btinternet.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Silverthorn, The King's Buccaneer & Jimmy the Hand
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 23:05:41 -0000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

> On Tuesday, February 19, 2002, at 10:21 AM, MChaloner wrote:
> 
> > I was getting a bit bored after finishing all my fantasy books - 
> > (Andre Norton & Mercedes Lackey, Roger Taylor, Jonathan 
> Wylie etc) - 
> > so I decided to re-read a Feist book. Something I've not done in a 
> > long time. So I chose The King's Buccaneer. It's been on my 
> book case 
> > for a while and it's seemed to be calling out to me for a while as 
> > well. I looked at all the Midkemia books and I was left with few  
> > options - re-read The King's Buccaneer - or re-read 
> something else! A 
> > while ago I was asked what my favourite Feist book was and I said 
> > Siverthorn without hesitation - (I won't go into why and I'm sure 
> > others have there own personal favourites). As I started to 
> read The 
> > King's Buccaneer, I realised why it's been beckoning to me 
> for such a 
> > while now. It's because it comes a damn close second to 
> Silverthorn. 
> > And I realised why. It's because they're such good 
> adventure stories. 
> > In a way, they seem to be coincidentally connected to the 
> Riftwars - 
> > they could both almost stand on their own as stand-alone books. 
> > They're just good fun adventure stories - despite the (at times) 
> > anguish occurring in both books. So, at last to the point! <laughs> 
> > ("finally") The Jimmy the Hand book that's going to be written 
> > sometime whenever - I wonder what we can expect to see? Is 
> it going to 
> > be a fun adventure story. Jimmy the Hand is... well - Jimmy 
> the Hand! 
> > <grins> As it's a Tales of the Riftwar book, I'm assuming 
> (there goes 
> > that assumption mode
> > again) that it'll only loosely be connected to the Riftwar - if at 
> > all. So I guess what I'm asking is - is it going to be the 
> rip-roaring 
> > adventure I hope for?
> 
> It's Jimmy's "1st" adventure. It picks up right after he helps Arutha 
> get Anita out of Krondor and details his first attempt to carving out 
> his own little empire beyond the reach of the Upright Man, 
> and why he's 
> back in the fold with the Mockers by the time Silverthorn starts.
> Best, R.E.F.


I'll be honest - that sounds like some story! <grins>
But I guess it'll be a while in the telling hey?
I reckon you must be a bit busy writing other stories at the mo.

---
mark ;-)
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
'A man who sees a god in his master, scarcely hopes for paradise'
- Marquis de Custine
markchaloner@btinternet.com



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Subject: Re: Pug
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Subject: Re: Pug
From: "Sylvain Guehl" <fenyxkell@demo.xandmail.com>
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IIRC Pug and Tomas had some role in the 5th riftwar, so neither should
die before it happens, am i right ? :)

Syl

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Subject: RE: Pug
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 16:45:51 -0800
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Subject: RE: Pug
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 16:45:51 -0800
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From: "Stuart Johnson" <Stuart.Johnson@worldwidepackets.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
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unless the 'role' they play is that their deaths cause the war in the
first place....

<EG>

-stuart

-----Original Message-----
>From: Sylvain Guehl [mailto:fenyxkell@demo.xandmail.com]
>Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2002 3:20 PM
>To: FEISTFANS-L
>Subject: Re: Pug
>
>
>IIRC Pug and Tomas had some role in the 5th riftwar, so neither should die before it happens, am i right ? :)
>
>Syl
>
>***************************************************************
>This e-mail and any attachments are confidential. 
>They may contain privileged information and are intended 
>for the named addressee(s) only.
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>attachments are virus free.
>You must therefore take full responsibility for virus checking.  
>Subsidiaries of X And Mail reserve the right to monitor  
>all e-mail communications through their network.
>This e-mail is not a commitment, in any way, of XandMail.
>****************************************************************
>


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From: "Terri Lyn Layman" <terrilyn@ameritech.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Strip clubs (was RE: Book List)
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 20:13:56 -0500
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*** EOOH ***
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: "Terri Lyn Layman" <terrilyn@ameritech.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Strip clubs (was RE: Book List)
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 20:13:56 -0500
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Well Larry, what you have here is a failure to find a sexually-inclined
girlfriend.

I'm in general terms, a dyke.  I'd be a lesbian if I'd gotten any sense
earlier in my life and not hooked up with my hubby.

I guess the "experts" would call me bisexual.

But, alas, I'm in a state of enforced heterosexuality due to some personal
issues.

-TerriLyn (Who still swears that Lady Mara has sampled some of her servant's
wares. ;) )

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Larry Scroggins
> Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2002 1:14 PM
> To: FEISTFANS-L
> Subject: Re: Strip clubs (was RE: Book List)
>
>
> Can anyone say "coolest wife ever"?  I'm afraid to even bring up the
> subject of strip clubs to my girlfriend for fear that I'll
> have to listen
> to her complain about how all those women are objectifying(sp?)
> themselves.  I'm getting the shakes just thinking about it.
>
> --- Terri Lyn Layman <terrilyn@ameritech.net> wrote:
> >  Hehe... I've not been to a strip club in 5 months and 8 days.
> >
> > But then again, I've been ravingly broke too.
> >
> > Last time we went (hubby and I) it was on 9/11, and we were just so
> > beyond
> > tired of seeing *it* on TV, hearing about *it* on the
> radio, and every
> > damn
> > website having some sort of commentary about *it*.
> >
> > We needed to get away from the "noise", so we decided to
> get away from
> > as
> > much media as possible.
> >
> > Food was out, as many of our favorite resturants have TV's in them.
> >
> > So, we went to the strip club.  It still had a TV in it,
> but they had it
> > shut off for once.
> >
> > I guess it was in retrospect somewhere around sacriligious,
> but we did
> > escape for a couple hours fairly well.
> >
> > -TerriLyn
> >
> >
> >  -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On
> > Behalf Of Raymond Feist
> > Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2002 11:59 AM
> > To: FEISTFANS-L
> > Subject: Re: Book List
> >
> >
> >   On Tuesday, February 19, 2002, at 08:07 AM, Milamber wrote:
> >
> >
> >     But not always I bet Ray? ;-)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >   Haven't set foot in a pool hall in 30 years.
> >
> >   (Now, you noticed I didn't say a damn thing about strip clubs)
> >
> >   Best, R.E.F.
> >   ----
> >
> >   Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be
> explained away by
> > stupidity.
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> =====
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Larry Scroggins
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games
> http://sports.yahoo.com
>



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 18:28:26 -0700
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Strip clubs (was RE: Book List)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Terri Lyn Layman wrote:
> 
> Well Larry, what you have here is a failure to find a sexually-inclined
> girlfriend.

Umm, it's probably not in my place to state this, but, well, I don't
know if this particular post, whether Ray "allows" the thread or not, is
appropriate in the least.

Some issues (I believe the phrase is something like "politics, religion,
and sex") just don't belong on a forum like this, and already one fellow
has mixed said topics.

Sure, somebody will ream me for this just for the sake of their own
interpretation of the list rules, but I would think there are limits. I
certainly don't come here to learn this much about some peoples'
personal lives.

Craig J. Ries



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Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 17:56:35 -0800
Subject: Re: Strip clubs (was RE: Book List)
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 17:56:35 -0800
Subject: Re: Strip clubs (was RE: Book List)
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Tuesday, February 19, 2002, at 05:13 PM, Terri Lyn Layman wrote:

> Well Larry, what you have here is a failure to find a sexually-inclined
> girlfriend.
>
> I'm in general terms, a dyke.  I'd be a lesbian if I'd gotten any sense
> earlier in my life and not hooked up with my hubby.
>
> I guess the "experts" would call me bisexual.

As a gay girlfriend of mine opined, once: there are no bisexuals, 
they're just greedy people. <g>

>
> But, alas, I'm in a state of enforced heterosexuality due to some 
> personal
> issues.
>
> -TerriLyn (Who still swears that Lady Mara has sampled some of her 
> servant's
> wares. ;) )

If you knew Janny, you'd know that wasn't even close to possible; 
methinks the lady is projecting! <g>
>

Best, R.E.F.

----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 17:58:00 -0800
Subject: Re: Strip clubs (was RE: Book List)
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
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On Tuesday, February 19, 2002, at 05:28 PM, Craig J. Ries wrote:

> Terri Lyn Layman wrote:
>>
>> Well Larry, what you have here is a failure to find a sexually-inclined
>> girlfriend.
>
> Umm, it's probably not in my place to state this, but, well, I don't
> know if this particular post, whether Ray "allows" the thread or not, is
> appropriate in the least.
>
> Some issues (I believe the phrase is something like "politics, religion,
> and sex") just don't belong on a forum like this, and already one fellow
> has mixed said topics.
>
> Sure, somebody will ream me for this just for the sake of their own
> interpretation of the list rules, but I would think there are limits. I
> certainly don't come here to learn this much about some peoples'
> personal lives.
>
> Craig J. Ries
>
>
>
>

I think a small amount of info is OK, as long as it doesn't springboard 
into a debate.  Saying, "I'm gay," or "I've converted to Budhism, or 
"I've gotten a new job," in context, is not a problem.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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From: "Terri Lyn Layman" <terrilyn@ameritech.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Strip clubs (was RE: Book List)
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 22:18:11 -0500
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Raymond Feist
> Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2002 8:57 PM
> To: FEISTFANS-L
> Subject: Re: Strip clubs (was RE: Book List)
>
>
>
> On Tuesday, February 19, 2002, at 05:13 PM, Terri Lyn Layman wrote:
>
> > Well Larry, what you have here is a failure to find a
> sexually-inclined
> > girlfriend.
> >
> > I'm in general terms, a dyke.  I'd be a lesbian if I'd
> gotten any sense
> > earlier in my life and not hooked up with my hubby.
> >
> > I guess the "experts" would call me bisexual.
>
> As a gay girlfriend of mine opined, once: there are no bisexuals,
> they're just greedy people. <g>

I'm not greedy, hence my enforced heterosexuality.  Duh!

>
> >
> > But, alas, I'm in a state of enforced heterosexuality due to some
> > personal
> > issues.
> >
> > -TerriLyn (Who still swears that Lady Mara has sampled some of her
> > servant's
> > wares. ;) )
>
> If you knew Janny, you'd know that wasn't even close to possible;
> methinks the lady is projecting! <g>
> >
>
> Best, R.E.F.

I don't know Janny.  Nor do I know much about her.

However, we have had this conversation before, when I was on the list in a
previous incarnation.

It was during that longish debate that we finally figured out about Kulgan
and Meecham, IIRC.

Anyhow, I figure that I can have my slight bent fantasy.  Not like I was
alone in my cheering of Xena and Gabrielle... but that's a different story
all together.  *sigh*

-TerriLyn



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From: Larry Scroggins <falling_98@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Strip clubs (was RE: Book List)
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Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 22:28:05 -0800 (PST)
From: Larry Scroggins <falling_98@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Strip clubs (was RE: Book List)
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>It was during that longish debate that we finally figured out about 
>Kulgan
>and Meecham, IIRC.

Hmm, being fairly new to the list I'm pretty sure I missed this debate.
Would someone please fill me in on the finer points?  Specifically, did
Ray actually come out and say that Kulgan and Meecham were romantically
inclined toward each other? Not that there's anything wrong with that.
Maybe I'm naive or I just didn't read into their relationship that deeply,
but I never got the impression that they had a little something going on.




=====
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Larry Scroggins

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games
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At 10:28 PM 2/19/02 -0800, Larry Scroggins wrote:
>...actually come out and say that Kulgan and Meecham were romantically
>inclined toward each other?

It's in the FAQ, Mate.

rip



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From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: Final Chapter?
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 08:52:21 +0000
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: Final Chapter?
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At 11:51 AM 2/19/02 -0500, RavusLupus@aol.com wrote:
> and where can I get it?? 

Well, you do like the hordes of others and send me 
an email off list.

And I'll tell you to wait until Friday, when the clean up
is finished.

rip



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Subject: Kevin (Warning! - spoilers)
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From: Nathan <nathan@irish4ever.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Kevin (Warning! - spoilers)
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I have just finished "Servant of the Empire". It's an excellent novel,
very interesting, full of many human emotions e.g. love, hatred,
sadness, joy. I am not good in reviewing books I like, so I'll say
only that it is REALLY very good book. I have one question:

I don't know if it is in "Mistress of the Empire", but I am curious
what happened with Kevin. Was he happy ever after he left Kelewan? I
presume Mara bore his child, married Hokanu of the Shinzawai and she
remembered him forever, but what about him? That was very moving
ending of the novel.

Honour to your houses!
Father Nathan - barbarian



_____________________________________________________________
Get your Free, Permanent, and Private Irish Email Today!
---------- http://www.irish4ever.com -----------



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Subject: Re: Kevin (Warning! - spoilers)
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Jay" <res0ibjw@verizon.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Kevin (Warning! - spoilers)
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 02:02:23 -0800
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Trying not to put any spoilers in here... but Kevin makes an appearance in
MotE. We find out what he's been up to.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Nathan" <nathan@irish4ever.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 1:50 AM
Subject: Kevin (Warning! - spoilers)


>
> I have just finished "Servant of the Empire". It's an excellent novel,
>very interesting, full of many human emotions e.g. love, hatred, sadness,
>joy. I am not good in reviewing books I like, so I'll say only that it is
>REALLY very good book. I have one question:
> I don't know if it is in "Mistress of the Empire", but I am curious what
>happened with Kevin. Was he happy ever after he left Kelewan? I presume Mara
>bore his child, married Hokanu of the Shinzawai and she remembered him
>forever, but what about him? That was very moving ending of the novel.
>
> Honour to your houses!
> Father Nathan - barbarian
>
>
>
> _____________________________________________________________
> Get your Free, Permanent, and Private Irish Email Today!
> ---------- http://www.irish4ever.com -----------
>
>



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 10:05:10 +0000
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From: John <john@crydee.com>
Subject: Re: Kevin (Warning! - spoilers)
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Nathan <nathan@irish4ever.com> writes
>
>I have just finished "Servant of the Empire". It's an excellent novel, 
>very interesting, full of many human emotions e.g. love, hatred, 
>sadness, joy. I am not good in reviewing books I like, so I'll say only 
>that it is REALLY very good book. I have one question:
>I don't know if it is in "Mistress of the Empire", but I am curious 
>what happened with Kevin. Was he happy ever after he left Kelewan? I 
>presume Mara bore his child, married Hokanu of the Shinzawai and she 
>remembered him forever, but what about him? That was very moving ending 
>of the novel.
>
>Honour to your houses!
>Father Nathan - barbarian
>
>
>
All I will say is read the last book !

-- 
John

john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.

Raymond E Feist Ring
http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm



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From: "Bryan" <enoch6000@hotmail.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
References: <917063BAB0DDB043AF5FAA73C7A835D4106665@windlord.WWP.COM>
Subject: Pug a second generation hero
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 21:44:17 +1000
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*** EOOH ***
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From: "Bryan" <enoch6000@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Pug a second generation hero
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 21:44:17 +1000
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Ray, the talk about Pug has prompted me to share.

I am currently reading Magician to my eldest son (8). I tried to read
Magician to my girls when they were his age but they didn't seem to get
interested.

My son on the other hand is crazy about what is happening to Pug. He is
completely fascinated with Pug, this little boy who becomes a powerful
magician. He has so many questions I find myself having to tell him to wait
and see after every sentence I read. I'm sure it will take years to read it.
I don't mind, its great to see his face light up as he discovers the wonders
of Midkemia.

His favorite part so far is Pug meeting Fantus. He was well aware of Dragons
from Heroes 3 and other PC games but to learn about Fantus the Firedrake was
a wonder for him. I spent half an hour telling him the diference between
firedrakes and dragons then.

Its worth it. Its a great moment in everyday for us in what has been a
difficult year for him as my marriage to his mother failed. Its been tough
but Magician and the boy named Pug has given him a spark of pleasure at the
end of everyday.

Pug may be just a character in a book but he has certainly given us a ray of
sunshine. I'm pleased to say that Magician will become a treasure to another
generation.

Thanks,
Bryan



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 12:56:45 +0100
From: Caranorn Aglaredhel <caranorn@cmdnet.lu>
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Subject: Re: 
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Might be the words too, Cymrii (sp.) tends to be used by some authors to 
name people and/or places. And the places you mention seem to have 
Cymrig (sp.) and Latin spelling.

Tried to understand that language myself but gave up and will just 
combine words that make some sense (to me, not to a Welshman).

Marc aka Caran...

lists@bjs.org.uk wrote:

>Nah - Ray just gets his place names off maps of the world.
>
>BJS
>(Born in Taunton :-)
>
>PS - Slightly OT: Who reads Terry Brooks? Now, he definitely gets his
>influences from the places he visits on holiday. Chew Magna is near Bristol
>and Maentwrog is up in North Wales. We went there on Boxing Day, but could
>not spot any malevolent looking trees!
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Stephen McClean [mailto:stevemc3000@hotmail.com]
>Sent: 18 February 2002 23:54
>To: FEISTFANS-L
>Subject:
>
>
>
>      Hi Ray I was just wondering. Do you read a lot of other fanticy
>writers books? Because I run a dnd game and people keep pointing out that I
>am using names and plots from diffrent books and films, but I don't know
>I've did it to they point it out. So have you ever wrote something only to
>realise you have used a charter out of one of eddings books and have to go
>back and think of a new name or town?
>
>Thanx
>Steve AKA Morg
>
>ROCK ON
>
>




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From: "Western Rhythm" <info@westernrhythm.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
References: <20020220095034.8BF8136F9@sitemail.everyone.net>
Subject: Re: Kevin (Warning! - spoilers)
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 21:16:36 +0800
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Western Rhythm" <info@westernrhythm.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Kevin (Warning! - spoilers)
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 21:16:36 +0800
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Yes the last book is the best of the whole series!!!

----- Original Message -----
From: "Nathan" <nathan@irish4ever.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 5:50 PM
Subject: Kevin (Warning! - spoilers)


>
> I have just finished "Servant of the Empire". It's an excellent novel,
>very interesting, full of many human emotions e.g. love, hatred, sadness,
>joy. I am not good in reviewing books I like, so I'll say only that it is
>REALLY very good book. I have one question:
> I don't know if it is in "Mistress of the Empire", but I am curious what
>happened with Kevin. Was he happy ever after he left Kelewan? I presume Mara
>bore his child, married Hokanu of the Shinzawai and she remembered him
>forever, but what about him? That was very moving ending of the novel.
>
> Honour to your houses!
> Father Nathan - barbarian
>
>
>
> _____________________________________________________________
> Get your Free, Permanent, and Private Irish Email Today!
> ---------- http://www.irish4ever.com -----------



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From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Alien Wine & Daniel R. Horne
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 10:16:55 -0500
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X-Originating-IP: [209.117.44.153]
From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Alien Wine & Daniel R. Horne
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 10:16:55 -0500
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Thanks for the insight, no luck on the google search engine though.

Jimmy


>From: Javier Dussaillant <ashkar@vrweb.cl>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
>Subject: Re: Alien Wine & Daniel R. Horne
>Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 13:03:45 -0300
>
>At 10:26 AM 2/19/2002 -0500, you wrote:
>>Man, and I thought I had all Ray's stuff. What is the Alien Wine story
>>about, and does anyone know where I can get a copy??????
>
>It is not a srtory really, but an article. You can find it at
>http://www.crydee.com, inside the section 'Miscellaneous Artifacts'->'Alien
>Wine'.
>
>
>
>>Also, Does anyone know where I could find a collection of artwork by
>>Daniel R. Horne? He did a cover on an old Dragon Magazine that I would so
>>Looooooovvvvvvvveeeeee to get a print of.
>
>Try http://images.google.com :)
>
>
>>Thanks for any insight
>>
>>Jimmy
>>
>>_________________________________________________________________
>>MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
>>http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
>
>         Saludos,
>
>                 Javier Dussaillant G.
>                 ashkar@vrweb.cl
>                 Departamento de Desarrollo VRWEB ltda.
>                 http://www.vrweb.cl
>


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.



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Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 07:20:16 -0800 (PST)
X-PH: V4.1@mailhub2 (Cornell Modified) 
From: Dun Xiahou <xiahoudun13@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Strip clubs (was RE: Book List)
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
In-Reply-To: <3C72FBBA.3988B9FA@yifan.net>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 07:20:16 -0800 (PST)
From: Dun Xiahou <xiahoudun13@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Strip clubs (was RE: Book List)
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I for one am all in favor of letting lesbians talk all
about their exploits.  But then again, that may just
be because my girlfriend is a sexually repressed
christian.

- Xiahou Dun

--- "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net> wrote:
> Terri Lyn Layman wrote:
> > 
> > Well Larry, what you have here is a failure to
> find a sexually-inclined
> > girlfriend.
> 
> Umm, it's probably not in my place to state this,
> but, well, I don't
> know if this particular post, whether Ray "allows"
> the thread or not, is
> appropriate in the least.
> 
> Some issues (I believe the phrase is something like
> "politics, religion,
> and sex") just don't belong on a forum like this,
> and already one fellow
> has mixed said topics.
> 
> Sure, somebody will ream me for this just for the
> sake of their own
> interpretation of the list rules, but I would think
> there are limits. I
> certainly don't come here to learn this much about
> some peoples'
> personal lives.
> 
> Craig J. Ries
> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games
http://sports.yahoo.com



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To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
References: <F110s86CurXdVC0FUXP0000241c@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Alien Wine & Daniel R. Horne
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 23:39:04 +0800
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Western Rhythm" <info@westernrhythm.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Alien Wine & Daniel R. Horne
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 23:39:04 +0800
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Try a search on http://www.mamma.com I usually find stuff on it that
never appears on yahoo.

cheers


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 11:16 PM
Subject: Re: Alien Wine & Daniel R. Horne


> Thanks for the insight, no luck on the google search engine though.
> 
> Jimmy
> 
> 
> >From: Javier Dussaillant <ashkar@vrweb.cl>
> >Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> >To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
> >Subject: Re: Alien Wine & Daniel R. Horne
> >Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 13:03:45 -0300
> >
> >At 10:26 AM 2/19/2002 -0500, you wrote:
> >>Man, and I thought I had all Ray's stuff. What is the Alien Wine story
> >>about, and does anyone know where I can get a copy??????
> >
> >It is not a srtory really, but an article. You can find it at
> >http://www.crydee.com, inside the section 'Miscellaneous Artifacts'->'Alien
> >Wine'.
> >
> >
> >
> >>Also, Does anyone know where I could find a collection of artwork by
> >>Daniel R. Horne? He did a cover on an old Dragon Magazine that I would so
> >>Looooooovvvvvvvveeeeee to get a print of.
> >
> >Try http://images.google.com :)
> >
> >
> >>Thanks for any insight
> >>
> >>Jimmy
> >>
> >>_________________________________________________________________
> >>MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
> >>http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
> >
> >         Saludos,
> >
> >                 Javier Dussaillant G.
> >                 ashkar@vrweb.cl
> >                 Departamento de Desarrollo VRWEB ltda.
> >                 http://www.vrweb.cl
> >
> 
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.

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From: "Nevyn" <alien4@wasp.net.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
References: <917063BAB0DDB043AF5FAA73C7A835D4106665@windlord.WWP.COM> <OE63euTRnlomKbQWrbm000087e1@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Pug a second generation hero
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 01:05:39 +0800
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Nevyn" <alien4@wasp.net.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Pug a second generation hero
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 01:05:39 +0800
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Thats great; I read it to my 9 months old as he goes to sleep....doubtful
he'll understand any of it; but perhaps, just perhaps, the values that the
story holds will sink in as he grows....


Thanks,
              Nevyn
_______________________________________________________________________

Not every love, but only that which has a noble purpose, is noble and worthy
of praise.

- Plato (c. 428-348 BC)
_______________________________________________________________________



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 10:16:46 -0800
Subject: Re: Pug a second generation hero
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Wednesday, February 20, 2002, at 03:44 AM, Bryan wrote:

> Ray, the talk about Pug has prompted me to share.
>
> I am currently reading Magician to my eldest son (8). I tried to read
> Magician to my girls when they were his age but they didn't seem to get
> interested.
>
> My son on the other hand is crazy about what is happening to Pug. He is
> completely fascinated with Pug, this little boy who becomes a powerful
> magician. He has so many questions I find myself having to tell him to 
> wait
> and see after every sentence I read. I'm sure it will take years to 
> read it.
> I don't mind, its great to see his face light up as he discovers the 
> wonders
> of Midkemia.
>
> His favorite part so far is Pug meeting Fantus. He was well aware of 
> Dragons
> from Heroes 3 and other PC games but to learn about Fantus the 
> Firedrake was
> a wonder for him. I spent half an hour telling him the diference between
> firedrakes and dragons then.
>
> Its worth it. Its a great moment in everyday for us in what has been a
> difficult year for him as my marriage to his mother failed. Its been 
> tough
> but Magician and the boy named Pug has given him a spark of pleasure at 
> the
> end of everyday.
>
> Pug may be just a character in a book but he has certainly given us a 
> ray of
> sunshine. I'm pleased to say that Magician will become a treasure to 
> another
> generation.
>
> Thanks,
> Bryan
>
>
>
>

No, thank you for sharing that.

It's stuff like this that makes for payoffs that have nothing to do with 
money or fame.  Kids falling in love with reading is the best result I 
can imagine.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 16:37:17 -0700
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
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Dun Xiahou wrote:
> 
> I for one am all in favor of letting lesbians talk all
> about their exploits.  But then again, that may just
> be because my girlfriend is a sexually repressed
> christian.

Well, it isn't the mentioning of any particular preference that bugs me,
it's the... getting more details than that that some of us don't really
need :)

Oh, to that other fellow: it would be nice when you tell people to read
the FAQ if you'd actually direct them as to where they can find it.

Craig J. Ries



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 22:07:09 -0800 (PST)
From: Larry Scroggins <falling_98@yahoo.com>
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Thank you, Craig. I thought the same thing initially, but I'm a bright
lad. I found it rather easily. 


--- "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net> wrote:
> Dun Xiahou wrote:
> > 
> > I for one am all in favor of letting lesbians talk all
> > about their exploits.  But then again, that may just
> > be because my girlfriend is a sexually repressed
> > christian.
> 
> Well, it isn't the mentioning of any particular preference that bugs me,
> it's the... getting more details than that that some of us don't really
> need :)
> 
> Oh, to that other fellow: it would be nice when you tell people to read
> the FAQ if you'd actually direct them as to where they can find it.
> 
> Craig J. Ries
> 


=====
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Larry Scroggins

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games
http://sports.yahoo.com



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From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
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Subject: Re: Kevin (Warning! - spoilers)
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 17:25:03 +1000 (GMT+1000)
From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
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Short answer...

Read Mitress.


>
> I have just finished "Servant of the Empire". It's an excellent novel, very interesting, full of many human emotions e.g. love, hatred, sadness, joy. I am not good in reviewing books I like, so I'll say only that it is REALLY very good book. I have one question:
> I don't know if it is in "Mistress of the Empire", but I am curious what happened with Kevin. Was he happy ever after he left Kelewan? I presume Mara bore his child, married Hokanu of the Shinzawai and she remembered him forever, but what about him? That was very moving ending of the novel.
>
> Honour to your houses!
> Father Nathan - barbarian
>
>
>
> _____________________________________________________________
> Get your Free, Permanent, and Private Irish Email Today!
> ---------- http://www.irish4ever.com -----------
>
>

Thanks
Darragh
-=-=
www.iamtheporkfireman.com
[Email]: s356179@student.uq.edu.au [ICQ]: 114283262



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At 06:07 AM 2/21/02, Larry Scroggins wrote:
>Thank you, Craig. I thought the same thing initially, but I'm a bright
>lad. I found it rather easily. 

And

>--- "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net> wrote:
>> Oh, to that other fellow: it would be nice when you tell people to read
>> the FAQ if you'd actually direct them as to where they can find it.
>>

That may have been me, and you're right, I should have (if I 
didn't...and checking back it appears I didn't.  Mea culpa*.)

rip

*Latin, for "my bad."



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Subject: Re: Pug a second generation hero
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Its a pleasure Ray. I was talking with my oldest daughter tonight. She
doesn't like a book she can't read in a day. I tried to tell her she wasn't
reading the right books and not to give up but you know what kids are like.

on the other hand, you have my son who was in fits of laughter. He seems to
find great delight in Pug's awkwardness around girls. The funniest things
amuse kids.

Thanks again,
Bryan

> No, thank you for sharing that.
>
> It's stuff like this that makes for payoffs that have nothing to do with
> money or fame.  Kids falling in love with reading is the best result I
> can imagine.
>
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
>
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
> stupidity.
>
>



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Subject: Re: Pug a second generation hero
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 21:40:56 +1000
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From: "Bryan" <enoch6000@hotmail.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Pug a second generation hero
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 21:40:56 +1000
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I don't think Jacob understands all of Magician but its holding his interest
and he likes to think he is Pug etc. The big bonus is that it keeps his mind
active and interested in books. If he likes the story which he does,
hopefully he will read it again when he is old enough to grasp it all.

Thanks
Bryan

----- Original Message -----
From: "Nevyn" <alien4@wasp.net.au>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2002 3:05 AM
Subject: Re: Pug a second generation hero


> Thats great; I read it to my 9 months old as he goes to sleep....doubtful
> he'll understand any of it; but perhaps, just perhaps, the values that the
> story holds will sink in as he grows....
>
>
> Thanks,
>               Nevyn
> _______________________________________________________________________
>
> Not every love, but only that which has a noble purpose, is noble and worthy
> of praise.
>
> - Plato (c. 428-348 BC)
> _______________________________________________________________________
>
>



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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Larry Siegel <larry@psihawk.com>
Subject: Re: Pug a second generation hero
In-Reply-To: <OE66EC1GEuquwVdo5HO00021f9a@hotmail.com>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 08:30:24 -0500
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Larry Siegel <larry@psihawk.com>
Subject: Re: Pug a second generation hero
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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>on the other hand, you have my son who was in fits of laughter. He seems to
>find great delight in Pug's awkwardness around girls. The funniest things
>amuse kids.
>
>Thanks again,
>Bryan

kids???  That part STILL amuses me when I re-read.....


Larry

My Homepage
http://www.psihawk.com

Raymond E. Feist FAQ
http://www.psihawk.com/feist



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Subject: Re: Pug a second generation hero
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*** EOOH ***
From: RBlackley@aol.com
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 11:22:52 EST
Subject: Re: Pug a second generation hero
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Yeah when i first read Magician i was pretty young being only 15 now, but 
what i liked most about was this clumsy boy who reminded me of myself, now 
when i re-read i find that i can still relate to him (though that could just 
be because i'm a total loser)


In a message dated 2/21/2002 7:00:46 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
enoch6000@hotmail.com writes:


> 
> I don't think Jacob understands all of Magician but its holding his 
> interest
> and he likes to think he is Pug etc. The big bonus is that it keeps his 
> mind
> active and interested in books. If he likes the story which he does,
> hopefully he will read it again when he is old enough to grasp it all.
> 

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> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: Elfines@aol.com 
> To: FEISTFANS-L 
> Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2002 10:15 AM
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>
>
> I am sorry but the mail of the mailing list take too much place !
> How can I stop this ?

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----- Original Message -----
>From: Elfines@aol.com
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>Sent: Friday, February 22, 2002 5:15 AM
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>
>
>I am sorry but the mail of the mailing list take too much place ! How can I
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>


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From: "Bryan" <enoch6000@hotmail.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
References: <9b.232d7cb1.29a678dc@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Pug a second generation hero
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 18:42:32 +1000
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From: "Bryan" <enoch6000@hotmail.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Pug a second generation hero
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 18:42:32 +1000
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I think your right. I think we all go through that awkward child stage. I
certainly can relate to Pug as a child and was the main thing that really
hooked me on Ray's books. Jacob is at that awkward age and is starting to
discover girls already. Eeek!

Bryan

PS I made sure I used the word "child" just for you Larry. g

> Yeah when i first read Magician i was pretty young being only 15 now, but
> what i liked most about was this clumsy boy who reminded me of myself, now
> when i re-read i find that i can still relate to him (though that could just
> be because i'm a total loser)
>
>
> In a message dated 2/21/2002 7:00:46 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> enoch6000@hotmail.com writes:
>
>
> >
> > I don't think Jacob understands all of Magician but its holding his
> > interest
> > and he likes to think he is Pug etc. The big bonus is that it keeps his
> > mind
> > active and interested in books. If he likes the story which he does,
> > hopefully he will read it again when he is old enough to grasp it all.
> >
>
>



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References: <9b.232d7cb1.29a678dc@aol.com> <OE44wAOJw8UTNyQaYIP00002327@hotmail.com>
Subject: OT: 'cause I'm leaving on a jet plane
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 20:03:32 +1100
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Allan Mills" <amills1@bigpond.net.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: OT: 'cause I'm leaving on a jet plane
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 20:03:32 +1100
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

  I'll be flying over to the USA as of this Monday for my 2 1/2 week
vacation. I'll be in Anaheim for two weeks visiting all the local theme
parks as well as Seaworld and the Zoo in San Diego. After that I'll be
spending two nights in Las Vegas seeing the sights.

 In the meantime I'll stay subscribed and read everything when I get back.
I'd appreciate it though if we didn't have any 100 post a day flamewars
while I'm gone.

 Either way I've restarted Magician so I won't be stuck for something to
read while I'm gone. :)

 Allan



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From: "PHILIPPE NGUYEN PHUNG" <phrill@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re: Kevin (Warning! - spoilers)
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 21:23:10 +0100
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From: "PHILIPPE NGUYEN PHUNG" <phrill@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re: Kevin (Warning! - spoilers)
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 21:23:10 +0100
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I have just finished "Servant of the Empire". It's an excellent novel, very 
interesting, full of many human emotions e.g. love, hatred, sadness, joy. I 
am not good in reviewing books I like, so I'll say only that it is REALLY 
very good book. I have one question:
I don't know if it is in "Mistress of the Empire", but I am curious what 
happened with Kevin. Was he happy ever after he left Kelewan? I presume Mara 
bore his child, married Hokanu of the Shinzawai and she remembered him 
forever, but what about him? That was very moving ending of the novel.

Honour to your houses!
Father Nathan - barbarian

Read Mistress of the Empire and u'll get the answer.

Phrill the magician



_____________________________________________________________
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---------- http://www.irish4ever.com -----------





            Philippe

   http://www.geocities.com/phrill85
   http://feistsite.homestead.com (you are all welcome to chat here)


_________________________________________________________________
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From: "PHILIPPE NGUYEN PHUNG" <phrill@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Concerning Pug . . .
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 21:28:50 +0100
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From: "PHILIPPE NGUYEN PHUNG" <phrill@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Concerning Pug . . .
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 21:28:50 +0100
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>I was just reading all the messages about the feared "death of Pug" *L* And 
>just watching everyones reaction to it, and then Rays reply, "hes just a 
>character in a book" -- Yes, indeed, however, but I believe that to some who 
>immerse themselves into the story as they read it, Pug becomes a sort of a 
>role model, someone who to look upto in times or difficulty -- even though 
>he is only an imaginary character, i believe, to many of us, he becomes a 
>sort of mentor -- > We see his self-confidence at the destruction of the 
>Emperors games, and so that self confidence is mirrored onto us, and we 
>become Pug at the games when we are faced against something which attacks 
>our personal value system. This is just an example to try to explain how I 
>percieve this; I could go on, but I shan't.
>
>Am I making sense? This is just what came to my mind. I hope you all 
>understand, in my attempt to justify why many would actually feel the death 
>of a close one, when reading Pugs death. *L* It sounds crazy, I know, but 
>this is what happens with good literature.
>
>Thanks,
>		Nevyn
>_______________________________________________________________________
>
>Not every love, but only that which has a noble purpose, is noble and worthy 
>of praise.
>
>- Plato (c. 428-348 BC)
>_______________________________________________________________________
>


Well I think it's more the fact that most of us started reading Feis's books 
with Magician and from there Pug has somhow survived everything that has 
happened ever since.It would be a shame that he suddenly would die.I mean 
why make him younger in Rage of a Demon King just to make him die later?I 
think it's a waste,but Feist IS the author so he can do anything he wants 
with his chars,although some of us don't agree with him.

Phrill the magician



_________________________________________________________________
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Subject: Question for Ray about co-authors
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Andrew Scott" <a.sc0tt@attbi.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Question for Ray about co-authors
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 18:01:37 -0800
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I was wondering how you found/decided on your co-authors for the Legends of
the Riftwar books.

Andrew



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Subject: Re: OT: 'cause I'm leaving on a jet plane
References: <9b.232d7cb1.29a678dc@aol.com> <OE44wAOJw8UTNyQaYIP00002327@hotmail.com> <001901c1bb7f$cdbde720$2f01a8c0@allans>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 18:34:06 -0800
From: Carl Dershem <dershem@cox.net>
Organization: Project Selene
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT: 'cause I'm leaving on a jet plane
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Allan Mills wrote:
> 
>   I'll be flying over to the USA as of this Monday for my 2 1/2 week
> vacation. I'll be in Anaheim for two weeks visiting all the local theme
> parks as well as Seaworld and the Zoo in San Diego. After that I'll be
> spending two nights in Las Vegas seeing the sights.
> 
>  In the meantime I'll stay subscribed and read everything when I get back.
> I'd appreciate it though if we didn't have any 100 post a day flamewars
> while I'm gone.
> 
>  Either way I've restarted Magician so I won't be stuck for something to
> read while I'm gone. :)
> 
>  Allan

Enjoy the zoo - I go at least once a month, just for the people
watching.

cd
-- 
Death to all Absolutists!



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Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 19:14:51 -0800
Subject: Re: Question for Ray about co-authors
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 19:14:51 -0800
Subject: Re: Question for Ray about co-authors
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On Friday, February 22, 2002, at 06:01 PM, Andrew Scott wrote:

> I was wondering how you found/decided on your co-authors for the 
> Legends of
> the Riftwar books.
>
> Andrew
>
>
>
>

I just started with the idea of talking to people whose work I enjoy.  
They have to be proven pros, of course, and "name recognition" wasn't a 
huge factor (else I would have asked Steve King, first).  I talk to a 
couple of folks who were just too busy but got three out of the top five.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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From: "Joseph Benckert" <jbenckert@sc.rr.com>
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References: <80896714-280B-11D6-9F0E-003065A8A644@bittersea.com>
Subject: Re: Question for Ray about co-authors
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 23:45:40 -0500
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Joseph Benckert" <jbenckert@sc.rr.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Question for Ray about co-authors
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 23:45:40 -0500
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Boy, does that beg the question...

C'mon Ray! Who else was on that list?

Joey *pryin' just a little*

1)

2)



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Raymond Feist" <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Friday, February 22, 2002 10:14 PM
Subject: Re: Question for Ray about co-authors


> 
> On Friday, February 22, 2002, at 06:01 PM, Andrew Scott wrote:
> 
> > I was wondering how you found/decided on your co-authors for the 
> > Legends of
> > the Riftwar books.
> >
> > Andrew
> >
> >
> >
> >
> 
> I just started with the idea of talking to people whose work I enjoy.  
> They have to be proven pros, of course, and "name recognition" wasn't a 
> huge factor (else I would have asked Steve King, first).  I talk to a 
> couple of folks who were just too busy but got three out of the top five.
> 
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
> 
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
> stupidity.
> 
> 



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From: "MChaloner" <markchaloner@btinternet.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Jimmy the Hand - (An afterthought)
Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2002 12:58:35 -0000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "MChaloner" <markchaloner@btinternet.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Jimmy the Hand - (An afterthought)
Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2002 12:58:35 -0000
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> > On Tuesday, February 19, 2002, at 10:21 AM, MChaloner wrote:
> > I was getting a bit bored after finishing all my fantasy books - 
> > (Andre Norton & Mercedes Lackey, Roger Taylor, Jonathan 
> Wylie etc) - 
> > so I decided to re-read a Feist book. Something I've not done in a 
> > long time. So I chose The King's Buccaneer. It's been on my 
> book case 
> > for a while and it's seemed to be calling out to me for a while as 
> > well. I looked at all the Midkemia books and I was left with few  
> > options - re-read The King's Buccaneer - or re-read 
> something else! A 
> > while ago I was asked what my favourite Feist book was and I said 
> > Siverthorn without hesitation - (I won't go into why and I'm sure 
> > others have there own personal favourites). As I started to 
> read The 
> > King's Buccaneer, I realised why it's been beckoning to me 
> for such a 
> > while now. It's because it comes a damn close second to 
> Silverthorn. 
> > And I realised why. It's because they're such good 
> adventure stories. 
> > In a way, they seem to be coincidentally connected to the 
> Riftwars - 
> > they could both almost stand on their own as stand-alone books. 
> > They're just good fun adventure stories - despite the (at times) 
> > anguish occurring in both books. So, at last to the point! <laughs> 
> > ("finally") The Jimmy the Hand book that's going to be written 
> > sometime whenever - I wonder what we can expect to see? Is 
> it going to 
> > be a fun adventure story. Jimmy the Hand is... well - Jimmy 
> the Hand! 
> > <grins> As it's a Tales of the Riftwar book, I'm assuming 
> (there goes 
> > that assumption mode
> > again) that it'll only loosely be connected to the Riftwar - if at 
> > all. So I guess what I'm asking is - is it going to be the 
> rip-roaring 
> > adventure I hope for?
> >
> 
> It's Jimmy's "1st" adventure. It picks up right after he helps Arutha 
> get Anita out of Krondor and details his first attempt to carving out 
> his own little empire beyond the reach of the Upright Man, 
> and why he's 
> back in the fold with the Mockers by the time Silverthorn starts.
> Best, R.E.F.


Oh yeah, just as an afterthought:
I'm sure the writing of is a long way away, but is Jimmy going to have a
companion in the story? It's too early for Locklear because he hasn't
met him yet - but is this Jimmy on his own, or with someone else? (Or
have you not decided yet?).

---
mark ;-)
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
'A man who sees a god in his master, scarcely hopes for paradise'
- Marquis de Custine
markchaloner@btinternet.com



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Subject: Re: Jimmy the Hand - (An afterthought)
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2002 08:45:12 -0800
Subject: Re: Jimmy the Hand - (An afterthought)
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Saturday, February 23, 2002, at 04:58 AM, MChaloner wrote:

> Oh yeah, just as an afterthought:
> I'm sure the writing of is a long way away, but is Jimmy going to have a
> companion in the story? It's too early for Locklear because he hasn't
> met him yet - but is this Jimmy on his own, or with someone else? (Or
> have you not decided yet?).
>

Haven't even thought of it, but even if I had, I'm not talkin'.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: (OT) test
Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 00:32:06 -0600
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Did this list just go dead for a day or so or did I get bounced?  If
this works you can ignore it...if it doesn't, you'll never see it.

James A. J. Young
jajy@earthlink.net
http://home.earthlink.net/~jajy/



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References: <001201c1bdc6$26696460$1695aec7@oemcomputer>
Subject: Re: (OT) test
Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 02:06:27 -0500
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Grinim" <Grinim@rogers.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: (OT) test
Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 02:06:27 -0500
X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at fep01-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com from [24.157.57.192] using ID <grinim@rogers.com> at Mon, 25 Feb 2002 02:00:04 -0500
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Woot, I see it,  Was geting a little concerned myself =) 

  Chad
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Monday, February 25, 2002 1:32 AM
Subject: (OT) test


> Did this list just go dead for a day or so or did I get bounced?  If
> this works you can ignore it...if it doesn't, you'll never see it.
> 
> James A. J. Young
> jajy@earthlink.net
> http://home.earthlink.net/~jajy/
> 



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Subject: Sidi
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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Sidi
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: "" <aragon127@excite.com>
Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 09:33:33 -0500 (EST)
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Couple of quick questions on Feist's newest book(I think).

1>When William defeated Bear, was it Kahooli who gave him the strenght
or was it actually Sidi?

2>In one Shards of a Broken Crown(Occurring after this
chronologically) I seem to recall Pug talking about burning down a
house around a wizard and the wizard laughing at him. Pug mentions
that he doesn't think he could defeat that wizard if he had to. Is
this wizard Sidi?

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From: "Western Rhythm" <info@westernrhythm.com>
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Subject: Re: Sidi
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Western Rhythm" <info@westernrhythm.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Sidi
Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 00:42:30 +0800
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

This one I can answer;

1) It was Kahooli, the God of Vengence because of William's young Lady
friend's oath of vengence agains't Bear. Kahooli granted it and
william defeated bear with it. Sidi was on the side watching the
confrontation, either he wasn't allowed to interfere, or he wanted to
see what would happen.

2) Yes that was Sidi, Sidi is the Mad God's agent, (well one of the
main one's anyway, or one of the most powerful) It gives a big 'hint'
into Sidi's life in the Tear of God's if you read it properly. Read
the last page as well, that gives the biggest amount of information. I
think Sidi couldn't defeat Pug either if he wanted to, not without
help anyway. I think both have the command of a power alike almost to
a lesser god as it is said in the books.

Hope that helped

cheers

www.westernrhythm.com
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: aragon127@excite.com 
>To: FEISTFANS-L 
>Sent: Monday, February 25, 2002 10:33 PM
>Subject: Sidi
>
>
>Couple of quick questions on Feist's newest book(I think). 
>
>1>When William defeated Bear, was it Kahooli who gave him the strenght or was it actually Sidi? 
>
>2>In one Shards of a Broken Crown(Occurring after this chronologically) I seem to recall Pug talking about burning down a house around a wizard and the wizard laughing at him. Pug mentions that he doesn't think he could defeat that wizard if he had to. Is this wizard Sidi? 
>

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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From: Joshua Stanton <jasharkalain@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Sidi
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 09:14:39 -0800 (PST)
From: Joshua Stanton <jasharkalain@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Sidi
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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>   Couple of quick questions on Feist's newest book(I
> think). 

I thought I'd add that TotG isn't his newest book. 
Honoured Enemy is out in the UK and other places.

to life,
~Joshua~

--- Western Rhythm <info@westernrhythm.com> wrote:
> This one I can answer;
> 
> 1) It was Kahooli, the God of Vengence because of
> William's young Lady friend's oath of vengence
> agains't Bear. Kahooli granted it and william
> defeated bear with it. Sidi was on the side watching
> the confrontation, either he wasn't allowed to
> interfere, or he wanted to see what would happen.
> 
> 2) Yes that was Sidi, 
> Sidi is the Mad God's agent, (well one of the main
> one's anyway, or one of the most powerful) It gives
> a big 'hint' into Sidi's life in the Tear of God's
> if you read it properly. Read the last page as well,
> that gives the biggest amount of information. I
> think Sidi couldn't defeat Pug either if he wanted
> to, not without help anyway. I think both have the
> command of a power alike almost to a lesser god as
> it is said in the books. 
> 
> Hope that helped
> 
> cheers
> 
> www.westernrhythm.com
>   ----- Original Message ----- 
>   From: aragon127@excite.com 
>   To: FEISTFANS-L 
>   Sent: Monday, February 25, 2002 10:33 PM
>   Subject: Sidi
> 
> 
>   Couple of quick questions on Feist's newest book(I
> think). 
> 
>   1>When William defeated Bear, was it Kahooli who
> gave him the strenght or was it actually Sidi? 
> 
>   2>In one Shards of a Broken Crown(Occurring after
> this chronologically) I seem to recall Pug talking
> about burning down a house around a wizard and the
> wizard laughing at him. Pug mentions that he doesn't
> think he could defeat that wizard if he had to. Is
> this wizard Sidi? 
> 
> 
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games
http://sports.yahoo.com



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 09:17:00 -0800
Subject: Re: Sidi
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On Monday, February 25, 2002, at 06:33 AM, "" <aragon127@excite.com> 
wrote:

> Couple of quick questions on Feist's newest book(I think).
>
> 1>When William defeated Bear, was it Kahooli who gave him the strenght 
> or was it actually Sidi?

Kahooli.

>
> 2>In one Shards of a Broken Crown(Occurring after this chronologically) 
> I seem to recall Pug talking about burning down a house around a wizard 
> and the wizard laughing at him. Pug mentions that he doesn't think he 
> could defeat that wizard if he had to. Is this wizard Sidi?
>

I'm not talking. <g>

Best,R.E.F.

>
>
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.

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From: "" <dante@kingcon.com>
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> I'm not talking. <g>
> 
> Best,R.E.F.


Nope, you're typing <G>



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Subject: Re: Sidi
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*** EOOH ***
From: Gkhd11a@aol.com
Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 18:42:35 EST
Subject: Re: Sidi
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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Ray, you said in the book that it was Sidi <g>

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To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
References: <a6.21dd5fe5.29ac25eb@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Sidi
Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 10:33:12 +0800
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Western Rhythm" <info@westernrhythm.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Sidi
Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 10:33:12 +0800
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Did he?
Or is is another dude we haven't met yet?

never cross sticks with the author (lol) he has a whole bunch of
apples in his bag *g*
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: Gkhd11a@aol.com 
>To: FEISTFANS-L 
>Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 7:42 AM
>Subject: Re: Sidi
>
>
>Ray, you said in the book that it was Sidi <g> 

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To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
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Subject: Bulletin Board
Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 10:37:38 +0800
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Western Rhythm" <info@westernrhythm.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Bulletin Board
Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 10:37:38 +0800
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Ever thought of running a Bulletin Board, rather then a Mailing list?

Would be much more economical :)

If you want I could set one up. But don't want to waste my time if it
won't be used. Have a look at mine.

http://www.westernrhythm.com/cgi-bin/ikonboard/ikonboard.cgi

and let me know. There are other various things I can add to it, like
a role playing game etc, but its up to you.

ciao

www.westernrhythm.com 

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To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
References: <a6.21dd5fe5.29ac25eb@aol.com> <004601c1be6e$8f53ac30$27df0ccb@vaio>
Subject: Re: Bulletin Board
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Aaron Irving" <s355156@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Bulletin Board
Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 12:47:08 +1000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I hope that wasn't an attempt to spam. Yes ikonboard 3 forums are
quite nice. The only thing is that this list has been around for ages,
it is simple to use and only requires email, not a web browser etc. I
know some people who check this list using telnet. I think that is why
Dan Lorey, REF and the other long-time members chose to keep it that
way. There already is a forum for Feist at hall of worlds. Its been
around for a few years and gets regular viewers, though not as much as
this list, and Ray does not post to it. It is at
http://www.hallofworlds.net/feist/cgi-bin/new_forum/ikonboard.cgi I am
pretty sure that is it anyway.
CIAO,
         Aaron

http://www.hallofworlds.net/kerr/main.php
http://www.nightshadow.co.uk

>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: Western Rhythm 
>To: FEISTFANS-L 
>Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 12:37 PM
>Subject: Bulletin Board
>
>
>Ever thought of running a Bulletin Board, rather then a Mailing list?
> 
>Would be much more economical :)
> 
>If you want I could set one up. But don't want to waste my time if it won't be used. Have a look at mine.
> 
>http://www.westernrhythm.com/cgi-bin/ikonboard/ikonboard.cgi
> 
>and let me know. There are other various things I can add to it, like a role playing game etc, but its up to you.
> 
>ciao
> 
>www.westernrhythm.com 

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 <004601c1be6e$8f53ac30$27df0ccb@vaio>
Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 13:56:28 +1100
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From: Anestis Kozakis <kenosti@labyrinth.net.au>
Subject: Re: Bulletin Board
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 13:56:28 +1100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Anestis Kozakis <kenosti@labyrinth.net.au>
Subject: Re: Bulletin Board
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

At 10:37 +0800 2002/02/26, Western Rhythm wrote:
>Ever thought of running a Bulletin Board, rather then a Mailing list?
>
>Would be much more economical :)
>
>If you want I could set one up. But don't want to waste my time if 
>it won't be used. Have a look at mine.
>
><http://www.westernrhythm.com/cgi-bin/ikonboard/ikonboard.cgi>http://www.westernrhythm.com/cgi-bin/ikonboard/ikonboard.cgi
>
>and let me know. There are other various things I can add to it, 
>like a role playing game etc, but its up to you.

Bulletin Boards are too clunky for this sort fo thing.

I for one would not read it (as I belong to too many already), and 
secondly, you would lose a lot of people who have slow connections.

Also, this list has served faithfully for many years.  There is 
nothing wrong with it.

>ciao

Anestis.

-- 
kenosti@labyrinth.net.au
"A complete list of this film's associate producers
  is available upon request."
    -- In End Credits for "State and Main"



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From: "Western Rhythm" <info@westernrhythm.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
References: <a6.21dd5fe5.29ac25eb@aol.com><004601c1be6e$8f53ac30$27df0ccb@vaio> <a05100300b8a0a98d4c3e@[192.168.0.2]>
Subject: Re: Bulletin Board
Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 11:16:50 +0800
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Western Rhythm" <info@westernrhythm.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Bulletin Board
Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 11:16:50 +0800
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I can see this may turn into a flame, Maybe I shouldn't have suggested it.
However BB are dependent on the server, and it also depends what content is
being downloaded to your page, so it doesn't matter if your conection is
slow.

ah well

www.westernrhythm.com


----- Original Message -----
From: "Anestis Kozakis" <kenosti@labyrinth.net.au>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 10:56 AM
Subject: Re: Bulletin Board


> At 10:37 +0800 2002/02/26, Western Rhythm wrote:
> >Ever thought of running a Bulletin Board, rather then a Mailing list?
> >
> >Would be much more economical :)
> >
> >If you want I could set one up. But don't want to waste my time if
> >it won't be used. Have a look at mine.
> >
>
><http://www.westernrhythm.com/cgi-bin/ikonboard/ikonboard.cgi>http://www.westernrhythm.com/cgi-bin/ikonboard/ikonboard.cgi
> >
> >and let me know. There are other various things I can add to it,
> >like a role playing game etc, but its up to you.
>
> Bulletin Boards are too clunky for this sort fo thing.
>
> I for one would not read it (as I belong to too many already), and
> secondly, you would lose a lot of people who have slow connections.
>
> Also, this list has served faithfully for many years.  There is
> nothing wrong with it.
>
> >ciao
>
> Anestis.
>
> --
> kenosti@labyrinth.net.au
> "A complete list of this film's associate producers
>   is available upon request."
>     -- In End Credits for "State and Main"



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From: "Western Rhythm" <info@westernrhythm.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
References: <a6.21dd5fe5.29ac25eb@aol.com> <004601c1be6e$8f53ac30$27df0ccb@vaio> <001901c1be6f$e24b7d90$97626682@nigelvirus>
Subject: Re: Bulletin Board
Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 11:18:48 +0800
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Western Rhythm" <info@westernrhythm.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Bulletin Board
Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 11:18:48 +0800
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

My apologies, 
I didn't realise there was already a BB.
alrighty then was just a suggestion, I like the email too.
cheers

www.westernrhythm.com
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: Aaron Irving 
>To: FEISTFANS-L 
>Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 10:47 AM
>Subject: Re: Bulletin Board
>
>
>I hope that wasn't an attempt to spam. Yes ikonboard 3 forums are quite nice. The only thing is that this list has been around for ages, it is simple to use and only requires email, not a web browser etc. I know some people who check this list using telnet. I think that is why Dan Lorey, REF and the other long-time members chose to keep it that way. There already is a forum for Feist at hall of worlds. Its been around for a few years and gets regular viewers, though not as much as this list, and Ray does not post to it. It is at http://www.hallofworlds.net/feist/cgi-bin/new_forum/ikonboard.cgi I am pretty sure that is it anyway.
>CIAO,
>	  Aaron
>
>http://www.hallofworlds.net/kerr/main.php
>http://www.nightshadow.co.uk

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From: "Aaron Irving" <s355156@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
References: <a6.21dd5fe5.29ac25eb@aol.com><004601c1be6e$8f53ac30$27df0ccb@vaio> <a05100300b8a0a98d4c3e@[192.168.0.2]> <006201c1be74$091db470$27df0ccb@vaio>
Subject: Re: Bulletin Board
Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 13:18:59 +1000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Aaron Irving" <s355156@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Bulletin Board
Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 13:18:59 +1000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I think anestis' point was that Bulletin Boards use the web interface and
are as such, graphic intensive. This makes them much more to download.
Emails, as long as they are not HTML emails, are plain text and generally
much quicker. neither of us were flaming you :) The thought was there, I
wouldn't mind a forum either, but email is more versatile I feel, i am
guessing the list-owner and REF think so too.
----- Original Message -----
From: Western Rhythm <info@westernrhythm.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 1:16 PM
Subject: Re: Bulletin Board


> I can see this may turn into a flame, Maybe I shouldn't have suggested it.
> However BB are dependent on the server, and it also depends what content is
> being downloaded to your page, so it doesn't matter if your conection is
> slow.
>
> ah well
>
> www.westernrhythm.com
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Anestis Kozakis" <kenosti@labyrinth.net.au>
> To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 10:56 AM
> Subject: Re: Bulletin Board
>
>
> > At 10:37 +0800 2002/02/26, Western Rhythm wrote:
> > >Ever thought of running a Bulletin Board, rather then a Mailing list?
> > >
> > >Would be much more economical :)
> > >
> > >If you want I could set one up. But don't want to waste my time if
> > >it won't be used. Have a look at mine.
> > >
> >
>
><http://www.westernrhythm.com/cgi-bin/ikonboard/ikonboard.cgi>http://www.we
> sternrhythm.com/cgi-bin/ikonboard/ikonboard.cgi
> > >
> > >and let me know. There are other various things I can add to it,
> > >like a role playing game etc, but its up to you.
> >
> > Bulletin Boards are too clunky for this sort fo thing.
> >
> > I for one would not read it (as I belong to too many already), and
> > secondly, you would lose a lot of people who have slow connections.
> >
> > Also, this list has served faithfully for many years.  There is
> > nothing wrong with it.
> >
> > >ciao
> >
> > Anestis.
> >
> > --
> > kenosti@labyrinth.net.au
> > "A complete list of this film's associate producers
> >   is available upon request."
> >     -- In End Credits for "State and Main"
>



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Subject: Re: Bulletin Board
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Donal K. Fellows" <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Bulletin Board
Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 10:38:09 +0000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

"Western Rhythm" <info@westernrhythm.com>
> Ever thought of running a Bulletin Board, rather then a Mailing list?

The key problem with a bulletin board is that email works much better
offline, which is still how a lot of people access the 'net.

> Would be much more economical :)

Define "economical" in this context, as I'm not at all sure what you
mean.  At the moment, the list is hosted on a service that nobody is
paying for at all (for definitions of nobody that don't include
whoever it is that funds the main Cornell email service!)

And I've never seen a web-based bulletin board that didn't suck in
some aspect compared to my email client.  Maybe your system might be
the first, but I doubt it from what I've seen of the front page or a
quick delve into a discussion.  Too much graphics (especially
animated), too slow (the turnaround time for email is quite slow, but
that's not as big a problem because it is still faster than I can
compose a reply, and I've got other things to do as well) and not
nearly flexible enough given my font choices. <g>  Also, doing
anything in real-time is a bit of a nonsense when it comes to a truly
global community like this list.

IMHO, the web stopped being cool in '94 at about the time when the
wider world discovered it.  But then you know what they say:
"familiarity breeds contempt".  This list works, and the community is
already built.  Why change anything?

Donal.
-- 
Donal K. Fellows, Department of Computer Science, University of Manchester, UK.
(work) fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk     Tel: +44-161-275-6137  (preferred email addr.)
(home) donal@ugglan.demon.co.uk  Tel: +44-1274-401017   Mobile: +44-7957-298955
http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~fellowsd/  (Don't quote my .sig; I've seen it before!)



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 12:52:36 +0200
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Kenneth Jones <killkenny@thos.co.za>
Subject: Re: Bulletin Board
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

At 10:38 AM 2/26/02 +0000, you wrote:
>"Western Rhythm" <info@westernrhythm.com>
> > Ever thought of running a Bulletin Board, rather then a Mailing list?
>
>The key problem with a bulletin board is that email works much better
>offline, which is still how a lot of people access the 'net.
>
> > Would be much more economical :)
>
>Define "economical" in this context, as I'm not at all sure what you
>mean.  At the moment, the list is hosted on a service that nobody is
>paying for at all (for definitions of nobody that don't include
>whoever it is that funds the main Cornell email service!)
>
>And I've never seen a web-based bulletin board that didn't suck in
>some aspect compared to my email client.  Maybe your system might be
>the first, but I doubt it from what I've seen of the front page or a
>quick delve into a discussion.  Too much graphics (especially
>animated), too slow (the turnaround time for email is quite slow, but
>that's not as big a problem because it is still faster than I can
>compose a reply, and I've got other things to do as well) and not
>nearly flexible enough given my font choices. <g>  Also, doing
>anything in real-time is a bit of a nonsense when it comes to a truly
>global community like this list.
>
>IMHO, the web stopped being cool in '94 at about the time when the
>wider world discovered it.  But then you know what they say:
>"familiarity breeds contempt".  This list works, and the community is
>already built.  Why change anything?

I cannot agree with you more!


>Donal.
>--
>Donal K. Fellows, Department of Computer Science, University of 
>Manchester, UK.
>(work) fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk     Tel: +44-161-275-6137  (preferred email 
>addr.)
>(home) donal@ugglan.demon.co.uk  Tel: +44-1274-401017   Mobile: 
>+44-7957-298955
>http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~fellowsd/  (Don't quote my .sig; I've seen it 
>before!)



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Subject: Re: Bulletin Board
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Bulletin Board
Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 07:32:00 -0600
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

There is one phrase that very much sums up the reasoning for not
changing anything: K.I.S.S. "Keep it simple stupid", i.e. don't mess
with a successful working model, 9 out of 10 times you'll only screw
it up.

I also agree, the net was far more interesting when I first was on
it many many many years ago (yet not so long ago as some of you).

-James
(Who hates bulletin boards, and yahoo! groups both)

> "Western Rhythm" <info@westernrhythm.com>
> > Ever thought of running a Bulletin Board, rather then a Mailing list?
>
> The key problem with a bulletin board is that email works much better
> offline, which is still how a lot of people access the 'net.
>
> > Would be much more economical :)
>
> Define "economical" in this context, as I'm not at all sure what you
> mean.  At the moment, the list is hosted on a service that nobody is
> paying for at all (for definitions of nobody that don't include
> whoever it is that funds the main Cornell email service!)
>
> And I've never seen a web-based bulletin board that didn't suck in
> some aspect compared to my email client.  Maybe your system might be
> the first, but I doubt it from what I've seen of the front page or a
> quick delve into a discussion.  Too much graphics (especially
> animated), too slow (the turnaround time for email is quite slow, but
> that's not as big a problem because it is still faster than I can
> compose a reply, and I've got other things to do as well) and not
> nearly flexible enough given my font choices. <g>  Also, doing
> anything in real-time is a bit of a nonsense when it comes to a truly
> global community like this list.
>
> IMHO, the web stopped being cool in '94 at about the time when the
> wider world discovered it.  But then you know what they say:
> "familiarity breeds contempt".  This list works, and the community is
> already built.  Why change anything?
>
> Donal.



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From: "Western Rhythm" <info@westernrhythm.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
References: <a6.21dd5fe5.29ac25eb@aol.com> <004601c1be6e$8f53ac30$27df0ccb@vaio> <E16fezp-0007IZ-00@athene> <001001c1bec9$f9a61680$08ec79a5@oemcomputer>
Subject: Re: Bulletin Board
Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 23:14:59 +0800
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Western Rhythm" <info@westernrhythm.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Bulletin Board
Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 23:14:59 +0800
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

You must be kidding!!
The web is much better then back then, I'm a Multimedia Graduate been
using the internet since there was an internet, the only down side
these days is the comercialism, but as far as advanced features and
usability goes, the web couldn't be better, and its only going to get
better. So we must agree to disagree.

I like the list, yes simple is good, yes email is ok, but there is
nothing wrong with new ideas and new systems that work!! And have been
proven to be more effective. As for my bulletin board system, yes the
graphics do cause some loss in server time and response, but you don't
have to have the graphics I have, they are designed specifically for
my target audience as a feature and loss of performance is takin into
consideration. I believe the Bulletin board system would kick an email
lists ass in regards to posting. It is immediatly inserted into the
database and displayed. ( is that not real-time?) With an email list
server everyone must wait for the lag in sending out an email to every
person on the list. Just look at the Hall of Worlds Bulletin Board,
that is instananeous and has very little graphics and rocks along. I
run a linux server with apache so undoubtly mine kicks butt too. So
the real arguement is simplicity and ease of use, in that yes email is
probably a better alternative.

Economical, well my BB is free!!!. Its only my server hosting costs
which are pretty sweet. If your in AUS check out www.conexim.com.au if
you want a good client. And economical meaning there is a lot of
features that you could add that would make it entertaining and
appealing. 

Ok it was only a suggestion. No offence Donal the list is coolz :) 

later

www.westernrhythm.com





----- Original Message ----- 
From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 9:32 PM
Subject: Re: Bulletin Board


> There is one phrase that very much sums up the reasoning for not
> changing anything: K.I.S.S. "Keep it simple stupid", i.e. don't mess
> with a successful working model, 9 out of 10 times you'll only screw
> it up.
> 
> I also agree, the net was far more interesting when I first was on
> it many many many years ago (yet not so long ago as some of you).
> 
> -James
> (Who hates bulletin boards, and yahoo! groups both)
> 
> > "Western Rhythm" <info@westernrhythm.com>
> > > Ever thought of running a Bulletin Board, rather then a Mailing
> list?
> >
> > The key problem with a bulletin board is that email works much
> better
> > offline, which is still how a lot of people access the 'net.
> >
> > > Would be much more economical :)
> >
> > Define "economical" in this context, as I'm not at all sure what
> you
> > mean.  At the moment, the list is hosted on a service that nobody
> is
> > paying for at all (for definitions of nobody that don't include
> > whoever it is that funds the main Cornell email service!)
> >
> > And I've never seen a web-based bulletin board that didn't suck in
> > some aspect compared to my email client.  Maybe your system might
> be
> > the first, but I doubt it from what I've seen of the front page or
> a
> > quick delve into a discussion.  Too much graphics (especially
> > animated), too slow (the turnaround time for email is quite slow,
> but
> > that's not as big a problem because it is still faster than I can
> > compose a reply, and I've got other things to do as well) and not
> > nearly flexible enough given my font choices. <g>  Also, doing
> > anything in real-time is a bit of a nonsense when it comes to a
> truly
> > global community like this list.
> >
> > IMHO, the web stopped being cool in '94 at about the time when the
> > wider world discovered it.  But then you know what they say:
> > "familiarity breeds contempt".  This list works, and the community
> is
> > already built.  Why change anything?
> >
> > Donal.

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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: Bulletin Board
In-Reply-To: <001a01c1bed8$5c26bae0$c7df0ccb@vaio>
References: <a6.21dd5fe5.29ac25eb@aol.com>
 <004601c1be6e$8f53ac30$27df0ccb@vaio>
 <E16fezp-0007IZ-00@athene>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 15:38:06 +0000
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: Bulletin Board
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

At 03:14 PM 2/26/02, Western Rhythm wrote:
> ( is that not real-time?) 

Depends on your definition of acceptable latencies and 
response times.

Unix (and I include the various open source derivatives)
are not hard real time...or soft either, really, as the 
response times vary too much to be narrowly quantifiable.
 
;->

rip

-- 
Richard Williamson             http://www.windriver.com/
Member of Technical Staff  
Arch Engineering, Europe   
Wind River Systems



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From: "Stuart Maher" <stuart.maher@ntlworld.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Bulletin Board
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Stuart Maher" <stuart.maher@ntlworld.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Bulletin Board
Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 15:31:58 -0000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

As a period poster/Lurker on the list for about 5 years now, This is the
last of the mailing lists I am part of, the rest went to Bulletin Boards.

I much prefer the list. Ok, it lags, it's text only it doesn't have the
added features. But. I don't have to go to it.... It comes to me!

A posting on a BB may get into the database and onto the site quicker, but I
don't sit there all day pressing refresh on that site, nor the other BB's
i'd use. I may only have the time or inclanation to go there once or twice
(which is about all I do on the other BB's I am on). With a list, my POP3
box is always on and delivers straight to my desktop. It may be a slower
method, But I get the message quicker!! Of course, you can set the BB up to
E-Mail you every time there is an update.... but if it did, it'd have come
full circle to be a mail based BB! Best leave it as a list!

Stu
>  -----Original Message-----
>  From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Western Rhythm
>  Sent: 26 February 2002 15:15
>  To: FEISTFANS-L
>  Subject: Re: Bulletin Board
>
>
>  You must be kidding!!
>  The web is much better then back then, I'm a Multimedia Graduate been
>using the internet since there was an internet, the only down side these
>days is the comercialism, but as far as advanced features and usability
>goes, the web couldn't be better, and its only going to get better. So we
>must agree to disagree.
>
>  I like the list, yes simple is good, yes email is ok, but there is nothing
>wrong with new ideas and new systems that work!! And have been proven to be
>more effective. As for my bulletin board system, yes the graphics do cause
>some loss in server time and response, but you don't have to have the
>graphics I have, they are designed specifically for my target audience as a
>feature and loss of performance is takin into consideration. I believe the
>Bulletin board system would kick an email lists ass in regards to posting.
>It is immediatly inserted into the database and displayed. ( is that not
>real-time?) With an email list server everyone must wait for the lag in
>sending out an email to every person on the list. Just look at the Hall of
>Worlds Bulletin Board, that is instananeous and has very little graphics and
>rocks along. I run a linux server with apache so undoubtly mine kicks butt
>too. So the real arguement is simplicity and ease of use, in that yes email
>is probably a better alternative.
>
>  Economical, well my BB is free!!!. Its only my server hosting costs which
>are pretty sweet. If your in AUS check out www.conexim.com.au if you want a
>good client. And economical meaning there is a lot of features that you
>could add that would make it entertaining and appealing.
>
>  Ok it was only a suggestion. No offence Donal the list is coolz :)
>
>  later
>
>  www.westernrhythm.com

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From: "Donal K. Fellows" <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
In-reply-to: <001a01c1bed8$5c26bae0$c7df0ccb@vaio> (info@westernrhythm.com)
Subject: Re: Bulletin Board
References: <a6.21dd5fe5.29ac25eb@aol.com> <004601c1be6e$8f53ac30$27df0ccb@vaio> <E16fezp-0007IZ-00@athene> <001001c1bec9$f9a61680$08ec79a5@oemcomputer> <001a01c1bed8$5c26bae0$c7df0ccb@vaio>
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Donal K. Fellows" <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Bulletin Board
Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 15:51:36 +0000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

"Western Rhythm" <info@westernrhythm.com>
> You must be kidding!!

Nope.  <g>

> The web is much better then back then, I'm a Multimedia Graduate
> been using the internet since there was an internet, the only down
> side these days is the comercialism, but as far as advanced features
> and usability goes, the web couldn't be better, and its only going
> to get better. So we must agree to disagree.

The web got better up to around '94, but hasn't improved in any
significant way since then.  There's more information, more glitzy
software, and far far more adverts, but not much that's genuinely
better.

> I like the list, yes simple is good, yes email is ok, but there is
> nothing wrong with new ideas and new systems that work!! And have
> been proven to be more effective.

Again, you're bandying around words like "effective" without
describing the terms of reference.  Why don't you describe exactly
what you mean by "effective" here...

> I believe the Bulletin board system would kick an email lists ass in
> regards to posting.

You're welcome to believe anything you want.  <eg>

> It is immediatly inserted into the database and displayed. ( is that
> not real-time?)  With an email list server everyone must wait for
> the lag in sending out an email to every person on the list.

Oh, correct.  You're forgetting though that in global terms it makes
very little sense to think of contact times of much less than *several
days*, what with the many people who only access the 'net part time
and/or who live on the other side of the world.  Bulletin boards give
timeliness at the expense of configurability of client (let's face it,
there are a lot of very good email clients out there) but is this such
a good trade off?  Email is also a lot more accessible (a sad fact,
but true.)

You do have a problem on the timeliness front of course; if someone
composes a message to add to a discussion and someone else adds
another message first, that reply might be meaningless, useless, or
pointless.  What should happen then?  (OK, the list suffers from that
too, but you should be aware that you do not have a perfect solution.)

> Just look at the Hall of Worlds Bulletin Board, that is instananeous
> and has very little graphics and rocks along. I run a linux server
> with apache so undoubtly mine kicks butt too.

*blink*  That's quite a leap-of-argument (It's not a leap of faith,
but rather a yawning chasm in the discussion, so what else could I
call it?)

> So the real arguement is simplicity and ease of use, in that yes
> email is probably a better alternative.

Thanks.  I win.  <g>

Donal.
-- 
Donal K. Fellows, Department of Computer Science, University of Manchester, UK.
(work) fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk     Tel: +44-161-275-6137  (preferred email addr.)
(home) donal@ugglan.demon.co.uk  Tel: +44-1274-401017   Mobile: +44-7957-298955
http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~fellowsd/  (Don't quote my .sig; I've seen it before!)



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Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 10:06:58 -0600 (CST)
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From: Cliff Nadler <cnadler@colltech.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Bulletin Board
In-Reply-To: <001a01c1bed8$5c26bae0$c7df0ccb@vaio>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 10:06:58 -0600 (CST)
From: Cliff Nadler <cnadler@colltech.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Bulletin Board
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

You've been using the internet since the 1960's? It sure doesn't sound like it
from your tone (I work with people who helped build ARPAnet, and I consulted
at the company that helped build it and you don't sound like them at all !-).

The web is currently overloaded with too much information, and too much of it
incorrect or false information, IMHO. There's also too much that's out there to
just use the latest and greatest, without any thought on whether you NEED to
use it.

Also, IMHO, the only thing about this list that matters is that Raymond Feist
posts to it at his pleasure. It will really be HIS decision where to put his
time into, and where we will hang out. If all the members of this list except
Ray go to your BBS, and Ray stays here, the BBS is not the place I want to be.
Sure, I enjoy the banter between the fans, but the reason I'm here (and
generally lurk) is to be able to chat with REF. I he decides to move his
internet presence somewhere else, I'll probably follow. If he withdraws from
the internet, I'll eventaully leave the list.

it's why this list is about REF, and why it's special.

On Tue, 26 Feb 2002, Western Rhythm wrote:

> You must be kidding!!
> The web is much better then back then, I'm a Multimedia Graduate been using
> the internet since there was an internet, the only down side these days is
> the
> comercialism, but as far as advanced features and usability goes, the web
> couldn't be better, and its only going to get better. So we must agree to
> disagree.
>
> I like the list, yes simple is good, yes email is ok, but there is nothing
> wrong with new ideas and new systems that work!! And have been proven to be
> more effective. As for my bulletin board system, yes the graphics do cause
> some loss in server time and response, but you don't have to have the
> graphics
> I have, they are designed specifically for my target audience as a feature
> and
> loss of performance is takin into consideration. I believe the Bulletin board
> system would kick an email lists ass in regards to posting. It is immediatly
> inserted into the database and displayed. ( is that not real-time?) With an
> email list server everyone must wait for the lag in sending out an email to
> every person on the list. Just look at the Hall of Worlds Bulletin Board, that
> is instananeous and has very little graphics and rocks along. I run a linux
> server with apache so undoubtly mine kicks butt too. So the real arguement is
> simplicity and ease of use, in that yes email is probably a better
> alternative.
>
> Economical, well my BB is free!!!. Its only my server hosting costs which are pretty sweet. If your in AUS check out www.conexim.com.au if you want a good client. And economical meaning there is a lot of features that you could add that would make it entertaining and appealing.
>
> Ok it was only a suggestion. No offence Donal the list is coolz :)
>
> later
>
> www.westernrhythm.com

-- 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Cliff Nadler		Collective Technologies, Inc.
cnadler@colltech.com	(512)-263-5500
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
To win, you must treat a pressure situation as an opportunity to succeed,
not an opportunity to fail			Gardner Dickinson



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Summary-line: 26-Feb      xiahoudun13@yahoo.com  [51] #Everyone calm down
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From: Dun Xiahou <xiahoudun13@yahoo.com>
Subject: Everyone calm down
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 08:13:38 -0800 (PST)
From: Dun Xiahou <xiahoudun13@yahoo.com>
Subject: Everyone calm down
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I can't believe people are getting into shouting
matches over whether email lists or forums are better.
 No one wins, no one is right, these are just
opinions; please keep that in mind and stop before
this resorts to namecalling.

- Xiahou Dun

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games
http://sports.yahoo.com



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Subject: Re: Bulletin Board
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 <004601c1be6e$8f53ac30$27df0ccb@vaio>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 18:11:12 +0200
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Kenneth Jones <killkenny@thos.co.za>
Subject: Re: Bulletin Board
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

At 11:14 PM 2/26/02 +0800, you wrote:
>You must be kidding!!
>The web is much better then back then, I'm a Multimedia Graduate been 
>using the internet since there was an internet, the only down side these 
>days is the comercialism, but as far as advanced features and usability 
>goes, the web couldn't be better, and its only going to get better. So we 
>must agree to disagree.

How can you say the "web couldn't be better" and in the same sentence say 
"it's (note the apostrophe) only going to get better." It always helps to 
read what you have written before sending it out.

>
>I like the list, yes simple is good, yes email is ok, but there is nothing 
>wrong with new ideas and new systems that work!! And have been proven to 
>be more effective. As for my bulletin board system, yes the graphics do 
>cause some loss in server time and response, but you don't have to have 
>the graphics I have, they are designed specifically for my target audience 
>as a feature and loss of performance is takin into consideration. I 
>believe the Bulletin board system would kick an email lists ass in regards 
>to posting. It is immediatly inserted into the database and displayed. ( 
>is that not real-time?) With an email list server everyone must wait for 
>the lag in sending out an email to every person on the list. Just look at 
>the Hall of Worlds Bulletin Board, that is instananeous and has very 
>little graphics and rocks along. I run a linux server with apache so 
>undoubtly mine kicks butt too. So the real arguement is simplicity and 
>ease of use, in that yes email is probably a better alternative.

E-mail is more than ok, it is the most widely used feature of the Internet.

As for BBs I would say they aremuch less effective that E-mail. Firstly I 
have never had a response from a BB that can compare to a mailing list like 
this.

Secondly, in my case I have my mail up all the time. So when a new message 
gets posted, I don't need to go log into a site then check every message, 
all I do is check my mail and it's all there.

No disrespect to the person that built the BB at the Hall of Worlds, but 
Ray is here, and posting here, not at the Hall of Worlds, that must say 
something to you (weather it's that he has never heard of it is besides the 
point) :->

>
>Economical, well my BB is free!!!. Its only my server hosting costs which 
>are pretty sweet. If your in AUS check out 
><http://www.conexim.com.au>www.conexim.com.au if you want a good client. 
>And economical meaning there is a lot of features that you could add that 
>would make it entertaining and appealing.

Nothing like a bit of free advertising!

In case you haven't noticed E-mail is also free, and as far as I know the 
list administrator isn't paying anything either.

Personally I find talking, and interacting with Ray makes this list VERY 
entertaining and appealing. But again that is just my personal opinion.

And always remember that "if it ain't broke don't fix it!"

>
>Ok it was only a suggestion. No offence Donal the list is coolz :)
>

Right, so it was just a suggestion, no one liked it, so let's leave it at that.

Regards,
Kenneth Jones

>
>
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "James Young" <<mailto:jajy@earthlink.net>jajy@earthlink.net>
>To: "FEISTFANS-L" <<mailto:FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
>Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 9:32 PM
>Subject: Re: Bulletin Board
>
> > There is one phrase that very much sums up the reasoning for not
> > changing anything: K.I.S.S. "Keep it simple stupid", i.e. don't mess
> > with a successful working model, 9 out of 10 times you'll only screw
> > it up.
> >
> > I also agree, the net was far more interesting when I first was on
> > it many many many years ago (yet not so long ago as some of you).
> >
> > -James
> > (Who hates bulletin boards, and yahoo! groups both)
> >
> > > "Western Rhythm" <<mailto:info@westernrhythm.com>info@westernrhythm.com>
> > > > Ever thought of running a Bulletin Board, rather then a Mailing
> > list?
> > >
> > > The key problem with a bulletin board is that email works much
> > better
> > > offline, which is still how a lot of people access the 'net.
> > >
> > > > Would be much more economical :)
> > >
> > > Define "economical" in this context, as I'm not at all sure what
> > you
> > > mean.  At the moment, the list is hosted on a service that nobody
> > is
> > > paying for at all (for definitions of nobody that don't include
> > > whoever it is that funds the main Cornell email service!)
> > >
> > > And I've never seen a web-based bulletin board that didn't suck in
> > > some aspect compared to my email client.  Maybe your system might
> > be
> > > the first, but I doubt it from what I've seen of the front page or
> > a
> > > quick delve into a discussion.  Too much graphics (especially
> > > animated), too slow (the turnaround time for email is quite slow,
> > but
> > > that's not as big a problem because it is still faster than I can
> > > compose a reply, and I've got other things to do as well) and not
> > > nearly flexible enough given my font choices. <g>  Also, doing
> > > anything in real-time is a bit of a nonsense when it comes to a
> > truly
> > > global community like this list.
> > >
> > > IMHO, the web stopped being cool in '94 at about the time when the
> > > wider world discovered it.  But then you know what they say:
> > > "familiarity breeds contempt".  This list works, and the community
> > is
> > > already built.  Why change anything?
> > >
> > > Donal.

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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
In-reply-to: <20020226161338.21108.qmail@web10406.mail.yahoo.com> (message
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Donal K. Fellows" <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Everyone calm down
Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 16:20:12 +0000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Dun Xiahou <xiahoudun13@yahoo.com>
> I can't believe people are getting into shouting
> matches over whether email lists or forums are better.

I'm not shouting at all; the whole discussion amuses me greatly!

Donal.
-- 
Donal K. Fellows, Department of Computer Science, University of Manchester, UK.
(work) fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk     Tel: +44-161-275-6137  (preferred email addr.)
(home) donal@ugglan.demon.co.uk  Tel: +44-1274-401017   Mobile: +44-7957-298955
http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~fellowsd/  (Don't quote my .sig; I've seen it before!)



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Subject: Re: Everyone calm down
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From: "Western Rhythm" <info@westernrhythm.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Everyone calm down
Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 00:57:30 +0800
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I think I just accidently insulted the list that why names are being
called. My apologies.
Again yes was only an opinion, Am I not allowed to have an opinion?
they are both good softwares, and to the chap that pointed out that
Ray is here on the list and only here, I agree, its awesome having my
favourite author actually writing emails and on the net. Thanks Ray!!
:)



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dun Xiahou" <xiahoudun13@yahoo.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 12:13 AM
Subject: Everyone calm down


> I can't believe people are getting into shouting
> matches over whether email lists or forums are better.
>  No one wins, no one is right, these are just
> opinions; please keep that in mind and stop before
> this resorts to namecalling.
> 
> - Xiahou Dun
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games
> http://sports.yahoo.com

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From: "Western Rhythm" <info@westernrhythm.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
References: <a6.21dd5fe5.29ac25eb@aol.com><004601c1be6e$8f53ac30$27df0ccb@vaio><E16fezp-0007IZ-00@athene><001001c1bec9$f9a61680$08ec79a5@oemcomputer> <5.1.0.14.2.20020226173713.00a45350@elvandar.thos.co.za>
Subject: Re: Bulletin Board
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From: "Western Rhythm" <info@westernrhythm.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Bulletin Board
Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 01:38:02 +0800
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Sorry I just feel the need to respond to this,


> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: Kenneth Jones 
> To: FEISTFANS-L 
> Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 12:11 AM
> Subject: Re: Bulletin Board
>
>
> At 11:14 PM 2/26/02 +0800, you wrote:
>
> > You must be kidding!!
> > The web is much better then back then, I'm a Multimedia Graduate
> > been using the internet since there was an internet, the only down
> > side these days is the comercialism, but as far as advanced
> > features and usability goes, the web couldn't be better, and its
> > only going to get better. So we must agree to disagree.
>
> How can you say the "web couldn't be better" and in the same
> sentence say "it's (note the apostrophe) only going to get better."
> It always helps to read what you have written before sending it out.

  1) Your picking apart my sentences, good one mate, if you read it
     properly it does make sense. Notice the comma, I know it should
     have been a full stop, DO I have to read through my every clause
     of language in my email before I send it out, as to not offend
     any of the perfectionest's out there? hmmm that makes sense...

> > I like the list, yes simple is good, yes email is ok, but there is
> > nothing wrong with new ideas and new systems that work!! And have
> > been proven to be more effective. As for my bulletin board system,
> > yes the graphics do cause some loss in server time and response,
> > but you don't have to have the graphics I have, they are designed
> > specifically for my target audience as a feature and loss of
> > performance is takin into consideration. I believe the Bulletin
> > board system would kick an email lists ass in regards to
> > posting. It is immediatly inserted into the database and
> > displayed. ( is that not real-time?) With an email list server
> > everyone must wait for the lag in sending out an email to every
> > person on the list. Just look at the Hall of Worlds Bulletin
> > Board, that is instananeous and has very little graphics and rocks
> > along. I run a linux server with apache so undoubtly mine kicks
> > butt too. So the real arguement is simplicity and ease of use, in
> > that yes email is probably a better alternative.
> 
> E-mail is more than ok, it is the most widely used feature of the Internet. 
>
> As for BBs I would say they aremuch less effective that
> E-mail. Firstly I have never had a response from a BB that can
> compare to a mailing list like this.
>
> Secondly, in my case I have my mail up all the time. So when a new
> message gets posted, I don't need to go log into a site then check
> every message, all I do is check my mail and it's all there.
> 
> No disrespect to the person that built the BB at the Hall of Worlds,
> but Ray is here, and posting here, not at the Hall of Worlds, that
> must say something to you (weather it's that he has never heard of
> it is besides the point) :->

  2) Of course, that's why I'm here, and not on my own empty feist board.

> > Economical, well my BB is free!!!. Its only my server hosting
> > costs which are pretty sweet. If your in AUS check out
> > www.conexim.com.au if you want a good client. And economical
> > meaning there is a lot of features that you could add that would
> > make it entertaining and appealing.
>
> Nothing like a bit of free advertising!

  3) I don't own that company, nor em I affiliated with them, beyond
     the point that they host my website, that was just a handy bit of
     advice for people starting up their own sites who live in aus.

> In case you haven't noticed E-mail is also free, and as far as I
> know the list administrator isn't paying anything either.
>
> Personally I find talking, and interacting with Ray makes this list
> VERY entertaining and appealing. But again that is just my personal
> opinion.

  4) There are various role playing magic stuff you can add to a BB,
     that is what I was suggesting.

> And always remember that "if it ain't broke don't fix it!"
> 
> > Ok it was only a suggestion. No offence Donal the list is coolz :) 
>
> Right, so it was just a suggestion, no one liked it, so let's leave
> it at that.
> 
> Regards,
> Kenneth Jones

  5) Why respond then? Why try to cut my post apart to make yourself
     look smart. Why couldn't you just politely say "no, the list is
     better, good suggestion but everyone would rather stick with the
     email list."

  Manners people, some of you need to relearn them.
  ciao

  western rhythm

1,,
Summary-line: 26-Feb     terrilyn@ameritech.net [120] #SERIOUSLY OT: BBS vs. Email
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From: "Terri Lyn Layman" <terrilyn@ameritech.net>
To: "FeistList \(E-mail\)" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: SERIOUSLY OT: BBS vs. Email
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Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: "Terri Lyn Layman" <terrilyn@ameritech.net>
To: "FeistList \(E-mail\)" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: SERIOUSLY OT: BBS vs. Email
Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 13:09:19 -0500
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Ok, here's my thought...

There's the whole Web technology, heavy with graphics, advertisements, java
applets/scripts...

Then there's email, with it's ascii text, sometimes HTML and ability to be
downloaded (in raw text, to be rendered on the client upon opening) in a
rather quick timeframe...

Personally, I have a theory behind Internet Technology...

Use the technology appropriate to the audience and their availible
technology.  That means that if you are going to be discussing or presenting
some information that needs to be in a "rich" enviornment with images,
video/audio, etc.. Then the Web is perfectly fine and acceptable, in fact,
for such things as movies, tv shows, and radio programming, it's about the
ONLY way to handle a presentation.

Now, for just plain discussion of movies, etc... you can in theory get away
with an email system.  The only reason a web interface might be more
desireable is if you're trying to share data like, "Hey, did anyone notice
in this scene that the table collapses before the chandalier falls down?"
and include a video file of it.

However, here we are discussing a book series (albiet w/ several story arcs)
by one author.  There are no "official" images of Pug, Tomas, Kulgan,
Macros, etc...  there has never been any audio/visual work done in
connection with these books (unless of course, there are books on tape), and
as a result, we each have our own vision of what the characters look like,
what their enviornment looks like, etc.  (My vision of Pugs office at
Macros' old island is undboutedly much different than RIPs, Donal's, etc.
{Although for some reason I have different versions of his office in my
head.. and each one is different.  His office at "court" is almost spartan;
at Stardock, it reminds me of one of my hubby's professors office.. scrolls
and books to the ceiling, a small window, fireplace and a mirror-portal
around a large mahogany desk; and his office at M's old place is a
retreat... large, open space, much lighter, dolphin designs in "terrazzo"
floors and lots of colored pillows around a firepit for meditation... but I
digress.})

Anyhow, back to my point...

The works are open to "multimedia" interpretation by your own mind, and I
feel that anything more than this list would only cause us to tarnish the
frontiers we have each individually created with Ray's words.  Granted, we
could have a BBS, and make it text only, but the temptation to include "fan
art" and the like that forces you to look at it would be too great for some
people to overcome.

Another reason to avoid going to the web is that this work is read around
the world, and in places that the Internet is not always the most reliable
means of communication, and the local lines and clients may not be able to
handle Web information, no matter how simplistic it may be.  (Come on, some
of us can remember the days of a very simple page that was tops oh, 100K w/
images and everything taking 3 minutes to load on a 486 running a 28.8
modem... some countries and localities are still running on that type of
system... and that's their "advanced" level.)  I'm thinking that users such
as Monwar would spurn a web based list just because of the technological
limitations.

Ugh.. I've been rambling.

Anyway... to summarize (IMHO):

1) The material at hand does not warrent/require a web implementation for
discussion.
2) The people interested in the material may not have the technology to
adequately make use of a web interface.

I'll shut up now.

-TerriLyn



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From: "Earl Borah" <earl@ncn.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 10:21:22 -0800
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> > Ever thought of running a Bulletin Board, rather then a Mailing
> > list?
> 
> The key problem with a bulletin board is that email works much better
> offline, which is still how a lot of people access the 'net.

See, I was reading BBS messages offline before the web was invented 
(though Internet email was around well before that). The QWK/REP spec 
is a little dated, but it still works (though there were rumors it 
would die on 1/1/2000, but on the systems I still infrequently pull 
from, it still works). Most web-only BBS's don't support QWK packets, 
but if they were smart someone would resurrect them (perhaps with a 
32-bit email-style QWK reader).

And there's at least one platform that supports BBS-style messaging 
via web, telnet, and QWK/REP. Wish there were more choices than there 
are.

 
> And I've never seen a web-based bulletin board that didn't suck in
> some aspect compared to my email client.  Maybe your system might be

One problem is that you can customize your email client so it works 
the way YOU want it to work, while I can customize mine so it works 
the way *I* want it to work (even picking completely different 
programs to do the same job). Typically you cannot customize a BBS 
package to your own specifications -- at the very least, you're stuck 
with whatever software and whatever options the system administrator 
chose. That tends to be a good argument for email in general.

There are some nice things about a BBS system -- I wouldn't have to 
keep resubscribing every time Cornell decides to drop my address from 
the list, and I wouldn't lose messages while I'm figuring out that 
it's not just a slow day on the list. Spam is a lot easier to stop on 
a BBS than over email, too. OTOH, I also wouldn't get instant 
notification of new messages that I can read in my own inbox, where I 
can determine how long to store them and how to sort them myself. I 
wouldn't have to worry about the BBS system going down and the 
message history being lost. And so on.

A lot depends on what you're using things for. Personally, I prefer a 
mailing list for conversations like this one, and prefer a BBS-style 
system for things like online classrooms (I work at a college, so I 
tend to think of that sort of thing). BBS's work best where it's 
important or valuable to have a central repository of the entire 
discussion. That's not necessarily the case here.

More and more though, the two services are merging -- listserve 
software is starting to include built-in archiving options that are 
searchable, and BBS systems are including email notifications and 
even email forwarding, so the two are becoming one.
-----
  "I dislike being wrong, and having to admit it publicly later. It's
  embarrassing, humiliating, and unnecessary. It would have been just
  as easy, and much more pleasant, to have been right in the first 
place."
    - Jack Richard, former Editor of Boardwatch Magazine



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From: JEEPMONSTER69@aol.com
Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 14:30:13 EST
Subject: Ray as a Character?
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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             Hey Ray, 


                         Did you ever make a character in your books based on 
yourself or people you knew? Also, do the Tsurani political parties have 
anything to do with American Parties?


                            Peace,

                                     Matt Forrest
                                           "Da Wig Splitta"

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Thread-Topic: Everyone calm down
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From: "Randy Wallenhorst" <Randy@mail2myplane.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Everyone calm down
Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 11:56:11 -0800
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Thread-Topic: Everyone calm down
From: "Randy Wallenhorst" <Randy@mail2myplane.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Everyone calm down
Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 11:56:11 -0800
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>From: Dun Xiahou 
>Sent: 2/26/2002 10:14:38 AM 
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu 
>Subject: Everyone calm down 
>
>I can't believe people are getting into shouting 
>matches over whether email lists or forums are better. 
>No one wins, no one is right, these are just 
>opinions; please keep that in mind and stop before 
>this resorts to namecalling. 
>
>- Xiahou Dun 

I couldn't agree more! The primary appeal to both types of formats is
really nothing more than personal preference. I admit that my preference
is more towards the "clubs" or "bulletin board" type forums. However,
since Ray is here and utilizes this e-mail list, then so will I and I'll
continue to remain content with it. Lets not damage a good thing. 

Randy 

Forget all that stuff you learned in flight school about lift, 
drag, thrust, and gravity. An airplane flys because of MONEY! 
--Unknown--
_______________________________________________________________
Get the FREE email that has everyone talking at
http://www.mail2world.com

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Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 12:25:32 -0800
Subject: Re: Ray as a Character?
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From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 12:25:32 -0800
Subject: Re: Ray as a Character?
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Tuesday, February 26, 2002, at 11:30 AM, JEEPMONSTER69@aol.com wrote:

>
>
>
>             Hey Ray,
>
>
>                         Did you ever make a character in your books 
> based on yourself or people you knew?

No, not directly.   You always borrow from things you know, but no "one 
on one" similarities.

>  Also, do the Tsurani political parties have anything to do with 
> American Parties?
>
>

Nope.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.

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Summary-line: 26-Feb       killkenny@thos.co.za  [57] #Re: Bulletin Board
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 23:35:00 +0200
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Kenneth Jones <killkenny@thos.co.za>
Subject: Re: Bulletin Board
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No, the list is better, good suggestion but everyone would rather stick 
with the email list. {:->

I was not trying to take your post apart. I do apologise if I overstepped 
any boundaries.

Regards,

Kenneth Jones



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From: RMAskren@aol.com
Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 19:00:37 EST
Subject: Re: Ray as a Character?
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In a message dated 2/26/02 11:49:47 AM Pacific Standard Time, 
JEEPMONSTER69@aol.com writes:
> Hey Ray, 
> Did you ever make a character in your books based on 
> yourself or people you knew?

Ray has been the inspiration for a character in another's work. Ever read the 
Chtorr series by David Gerrold? :-)

-Ralph

Visit Elvandar.com and the Unofficial Atlas to the Worlds of Raymond E. Feist 
at
http://www.elvandar.com



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 03:31:23 +0200
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From: Kenneth Jones <killkenny@thos.co.za>
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Hi Everyone.

I just thought I should share a thought with you all.

I was looking at the new Warcraft 3 site at the different races 
http://www.blizzard.com/war3/races/.

Now the more on topic point of the mail, is that there seem to be some 
similarities to the races in Warcraft 3 and the races in Ray's books.

For instance, the "Necromancer" and "Water Elemental". OK so those are 
quite general, but then there is the "Wyvern Rider" and "Dread Lord"

Maybe just coincidence, and maybe I just know too little about the fantasy 
world to know that they are standard names.

Anyway, Back to work.

Regards,
Kenneth Jones



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Cliff Nadler writes:

 > 
 > The web is currently overloaded with too much information, and too
 > much of it incorrect or false information, IMHO. 


Hearsay!

Everyone knows that if you read it on the Internet it must be true.

Otherwise, /. and the Register wouldn't be in existence.

-Matt



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Subject: Re: Ray as a Character?
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Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 10:19:06 +0100
Subject: Re: Ray as a Character?
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> No, not directly. You always borrow from things you know, but no "one 
> on one" similarities.

Well... and any character inspired from one of your friends/relatives ?

Syl
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Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 10:21:05 +0100
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> For instance, the "Necromancer" and "Water Elemental". OK so those are 
> quite general, but then there is the "Wyvern Rider" and "Dread Lord"
> 
> Maybe just coincidence, and maybe I just know too little about the fantasy 
> world to know that they are standard names.


Wyvern is a word I saw in AD&D in the first place, and "Dread Lord" is
quite a basic name.

Syl
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Subject: ladt mara
Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 04:56:08 -0500
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Andrew" <abizet@woh.rr.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: ladt mara
Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 04:56:08 -0500
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have you thought about possibily bringing back kevin and lady mara.
maybe like another empire wide crisis that the empire would need to
call upon the assistance of the kingdom and kesh to defeat the evil.
as it was said by pug at the end of shards of a broken crown.  where
pug would destroy any who beared arms for war against the other if
they crossed the border. thus in the end bringing a peace to both kesh
and the kingdom, and stregenthing the peace between the empire and the
kingdom. i must say that i personally miss lady mara. since i recieved
magician apprentice, master and silverthorn i wont read any other
author.

1,,
Summary-line: 27-Feb      raymond@bittersea.com  [64] #Re: Ray as a Character?
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Subject: Re: Ray as a Character?
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 02:05:24 -0800
Subject: Re: Ray as a Character?
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Wednesday, February 27, 2002, at 01:19 AM, Sylvain Guehl wrote:

> > No, not directly. You always borrow from things you know, but no "one
> > on one" similarities.
>  
> Well... and any character inspired from one of your friends/relatives ?
>


I think you missed the point or I need to state it another way.

No one person in the books is based upon any one person I've known.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Summary-line: 27-Feb       killkenny@thos.co.za  [81] #Re:Blizzard
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 12:38:21 +0200
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Kenneth Jones <killkenny@thos.co.za>
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Aah I see... 'supose the "maybe I just know too little about the fantasy 
world to know that they are standard names" statement is correct

Regards,
Kenneth Jones


At 10:21 AM 2/27/02 +0100, you wrote:
> > For instance, the "Necromancer" and "Water Elemental". OK so those are
> > quite general, but then there is the "Wyvern Rider" and "Dread Lord"
> >
> > Maybe just coincidence, and maybe I just know too little about the fantasy
> > world to know that they are standard names.
>
>
>Wyvern is a word I saw in AD&D in the first place, and "Dread Lord" is 
>quite a basic name.
>
>Syl
>
>
>***************************************************************
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 Lady Mara must be close to 100 years old at the end of Shards, and
maybe even older. I don't think your wish can be granted, unless in
Krondor serie :-)

Paddyjack


--

On Wed, 27 Feb 2002 04:56:08  
 Andrew wrote:
>have you thought about possibily bringing back kevin and lady mara. maybe like another empire wide crisis that the empire would need to call upon the assistance of the kingdom and kesh to defeat the evil. as it was said by pug at the end of shards of a broken crown. where pug would destroy any who beared arms for war against the other  if they crossed the border. thus in the end bringing a peace to both kesh and the kingdom, and stregenthing the peace between the empire and the kingdom. i must say that i personally miss lady mara. since i recieved magician apprentice, master and silverthorn i wont read any other author.
>


2,000,000,000 Web Pages--you only need 1. Save time with My Lycos.
http://my.lycos.com



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Subject: Re: ladt mara
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From: "Andrew" <abizet@woh.rr.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: ladt mara
Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 08:06:48 -0500
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that may be true, but what about her son?

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Subject: Re: ladt mara
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From: "David P. Rouse" <viperphi@ezaccess.net>
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Subject: Re: ladt mara
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That would make her son 70 years old or something like that. The Kelewan
Home for the Aged Adventure?

David P. Rouse
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Andrew=20
>To: FEISTFANS-L=20
>Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 8:06 AM
>Subject: Re: ladt mara
>
>
>that may be true, but what about her son?

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Subject: Re: ladt mara
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From: "Andrew" <abizet@woh.rr.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: ladt mara
Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 08:49:19 -0500
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well do we really know if there were any children from him? i dont
recall the books saying as such. so there may be

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Summary-line: 27-Feb     terrilyn@ameritech.net [105] #RE: ladt mara
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From: "Terri Lyn Layman" <terrilyn@ameritech.net>
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Subject: RE: ladt mara
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Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: "Terri Lyn Layman" <terrilyn@ameritech.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: ladt mara
Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 08:55:51 -0500
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And to further what Paddy's saying...

At one point (I don't know if it still would needfully hold true)...

Ray's (now ex-)wife and Janny's husband threatened them with divorce if they
ever collaborated again.

So, while Ray's marriage isn't the issue at hand anymore, there still is
Janny's.

Besides, what's the point of having a "Cinderella" ending if you're going to
spill the beans as to what happens later?  (Dumb Disney's doing it anyway!
If any of you with kids get stuck renting Cinderella/Peter Pan II, let me
know how they are.)

So, while yes, I'd like to see more Lady Mara, there's such a thing as a
"good ending" that shouldn't be messed with.

-TerriLyn

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Paddyjack [ ]
> Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 7:17 AM
> To: FEISTFANS-L
> Subject: Re: ladt mara
>
>
>  Lady Mara must be close to 100 years old at the end of
> Shards, and maybe even older. I don't think your wish can be
> granted, unless in Krondor serie :-)
>
> Paddyjack
>
>
> --
>
> On Wed, 27 Feb 2002 04:56:08
>  Andrew wrote:
> >have you thought about possibily bringing back kevin and
> lady mara. maybe like another empire wide crisis that the
> empire would need to call upon the assistance of the kingdom
> and kesh to defeat the evil. as it was said by pug at the end
> of shards of a broken crown. where pug would destroy any who
> beared arms for war against the other  if they crossed the
> border. thus in the end bringing a peace to both kesh and the
> kingdom, and stregenthing the peace between the empire and
> the kingdom. i must say that i personally miss lady mara.
> since i recieved magician apprentice, master and silverthorn
> i wont read any other author.
> >
>
>
> 2,000,000,000 Web Pages--you only need 1. Save time with My Lycos.
> http://my.lycos.com
>



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Subject: Re: Ray as a Character?
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Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 17:18:06 +0100
Subject: Re: Ray as a Character?
From: "Sylvain Guehl" <fenyxkell@demo.xandmail.com>
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> 
> On Wednesday, February 27, 2002, at 01:19 AM, Sylvain Guehl wrote:
> 
> > > No, not directly. You always borrow from things you know, but no "one
> > > on one" similarities.
> >  
> > Well... and any character inspired from one of your friends/relatives ?
> >
> 
> 
> I think you missed the point or I need to state it another way.
> 
> No one person in the books is based upon any one person I've known.
> 
> Best, R.E.F.

Mea culpa, I read too quickly, sorry sir :)

Syl
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Subject: RE: ladt mara
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Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 17:21:15 +0100
Subject: RE: ladt mara
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> Ray's (now ex-)wife and Janny's husband threatened them with divorce if they
> ever collaborated again.
> 
> So, while Ray's marriage isn't the issue at hand anymore, there still is
> Janny's.

wwwhhhhaaat ??? I didn't know that nonsense. I even thought Ray and
Janny would write a Riftwar Legends book someday.

How silly.

Syl
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Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 09:34:41 -0800
Subject: Re: ladt mara
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
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On Wednesday, February 27, 2002, at 01:56 AM, Andrew wrote:

> have you thought about possibily bringing back kevin and lady mara. 
> maybe like another empire wide crisis that the empire would need to 
> call upon the assistance of the kingdom and kesh to defeat the evil. as 
> it was said by pug at the end of shards of a broken crown. where pug 
> would destroy any who beared arms for war against the other  if they 
> crossed the border. thus in the end bringing a peace to both kesh and 
> the kingdom, and stregenthing the peace between the empire and the 
> kingdom. i must say that i personally miss lady mara. since i recieved 
> magician apprentice, master and silverthorn i wont read any other 
> author.
>
>

Janny and I may write something together, one day, but it won't be an 
empire story.  The empire is done, for me.  I may feature something 
about the empire in a future book, but it will only be in passing.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.

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Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 09:37:08 -0800
Subject: Re: ladt mara
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
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On Wednesday, February 27, 2002, at 05:55 AM, Terri Lyn Layman wrote:

> And to further what Paddy's saying...
>
> At one point (I don't know if it still would needfully hold true)...
>
> Ray's (now ex-)wife and Janny's husband threatened them with divorce if 
> they
> ever collaborated again.
>
> So, while Ray's marriage isn't the issue at hand anymore, there still is
> Janny's.

That was said a bit tongue in cheek.  Janny and I may work together 
again, just not on an empire book.
>
> Besides, what's the point of having a "Cinderella" ending if you're 
> going to
> spill the beans as to what happens later?  (Dumb Disney's doing it 
> anyway!
> If any of you with kids get stuck renting Cinderella/Peter Pan II, let 
> me
> know how they are.)

Return of Neverland is OK.  Not quite the charmer the original was, but 
not a bad film either.  My kids loved it.  My only beef is they replaced 
the crocodile with an octopus who isn't half as funny.

Best, R.E.F.

----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Summary-line: 27-Feb        kiehtan@hotmail.com  [94] #Re: ladt mara
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Hi Ray: I don't recall the specifics but I know you metioned some time back 
something about how the ending for the Empire series was a little more 
"Cinderella" than you wanted it to be, but that you were kind of out-voted 
by the publisher. Since you did mention that you thought you might revisit 
PotB someday, I was wondering if you had any notion of revisiting the Empire 
series as well in order to put the story more inline with your original 
ideas.

Adieu

Jimmy



>From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
>Subject: Re: ladt mara
>Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 09:34:41 -0800
>
>
>On Wednesday, February 27, 2002, at 01:56 AM, Andrew wrote:
>
>>have you thought about possibily bringing back kevin and lady mara. maybe 
>>like another empire wide crisis that the empire would need to call upon 
>>the assistance of the kingdom and kesh to defeat the evil. as it was said 
>>by pug at the end of shards of a broken crown. where pug would destroy any 
>>who beared arms for war against the other  if they crossed the border. 
>>thus in the end bringing a peace to both kesh and the kingdom, and 
>>stregenthing the peace between the empire and the kingdom. i must say that 
>>i personally miss lady mara. since i recieved magician apprentice, master 
>>and silverthorn i wont read any other author.
>>
>>
>
>Janny and I may write something together, one day, but it won't be an 
>empire story.  The empire is done, for me.  I may feature something about 
>the empire in a future book, but it will only be in passing.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
>stupidity.


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.



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From: "Andrew" <abizet@woh.rr.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
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Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 14:21:07 -0500
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i was about 16 or so when i first got to reading magician apprentice. now i
am 25 and yes i love the kingdom, but i would have to say my favorite was
when lady mara had to take control of the house of Acoma because of the
death of her father and brother. she had nothing but became the most
powerful house in the empire. by far i feel that the empire series was
better. now please dont get me wrong i love the series of  books to this
day, but the empire was my favorite. espically when pug totally destroyed
the arena and everyone ran except macros the black. the only other person
that could out do pug.  i miss him too, but he is dead and gone after
getting stuck in that rift fighting the astrolplane monster.



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That's odd. I had the exact opposite reaction towards the empire
series. It was an enjoyable read, but I don't think it compares at all
to any of the other books. Magician of course is my favorite, but the
empire series was definitely a good read, but nothing something I'd
read again anytime soon.

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Subject: Re: lady mara
Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 15:15:25 -0500
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Andrew" <abizet@woh.rr.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: lady mara
Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 15:15:25 -0500
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i personally have read the magician series min 4 times. catching
something new or that i had missed or forgot. i start over frm the
last book between books while i am waiting  for the next book. i am
currently more then half way through tears of the gods, and i have
just had it a week or so. i read it when i am in the tub or just bored
outa my mind. bythe time the newer books get out here. i have read al
least two book from an eariler series. that is how ling it takes for
them to get out here in the states. i have read other authors but none
could come close to the feeling that i got when reading these book. i
wish  there actually was a midkemia and kelewan. they would be the top
2 on my to visit before i die list. on the other hand i acn go there
any time i want. all i have to do is pick up the book and turn a
page.

1,,
Summary-line: 27-Feb     wilsonm80@netscape.net  [73] #Arutha: Young father?
X-Coding-System: undecided-unix
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Subject: Arutha: Young father?
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 16:08:46 -0500
From: wilsonm80@netscape.net (Maximilian Wilson)
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Arutha: Young father?
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I'm thinking about the time frames between Prince of the Blood and
Rise of a Merchant Prince. In PotB, Jimmy the Hand gets married. ~8
years later, in tKB, there's a note on James' new baby--"Uncle Jimmy
loves his daughters, but he really wanted a son" or words to that 
effect--who is presumably Arutha II. Twenty-five years later, we get
SoaDQ, which is two years in duration, and then midway through RoaMP
Jimmy and Dash show up, full-grown. (Sylvia wouldn't be hitting on a
15-year-old Dash; I'd say 17 or 18 years old at minimum.)

If we stretch things, Arutha II could be maybe thirty years old at this
point, which means he must have sired Jimmy at about age 13. (If Jimmy
is 16, + 9 months, and Dash is 15.)

Kinky...

Wilson

P.S. I wonder if Arutha's sisters ever married. Pug calls Jimmy and Dash
"the last of my line," but maybe he simply overlooked their cousins. I
don't think he's been in close contact with his descendants, so it's
plausible.
-- 
There is no cause so right that one cannot find a fool following it.
   --Niven's Law #16
..



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1,,
Summary-line: 27-Feb  justin.carew@ntlworld.com  [63] #atlas
X-Coding-System: undecided-unix
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Subject: atlas
Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 23:11:00 -0000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Justin" <justin.carew@ntlworld.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: atlas
Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 23:11:00 -0000
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Hey guys
i'm pretty new to this mailing list.
I've read most of the books, but there
is something that i know nothing about.
The altlas of midkemia. i saw it in
amozan. It didn't say much about it, so
i'm pretty clueless. have you ever seen
it? Is it just an atlas showing
different sections of the globe?

Justin



1,,
Summary-line: 28-Feb         caranorn@cmdnet.lu  [60] #Re: lady mara
X-Coding-System: undecided-unix
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Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 00:18:55 +0100
From: Caranorn Aglaredhel <caranorn@cmdnet.lu>
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Subject: Re: lady mara
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Exactly the way I feel. Though I expect I will reread the Empire books 
again soon to find what makes it so interesting to some people.

Marc aka Caran...

aragon127@excite.com wrote:

> That's odd. I had the exact opposite reaction towards the empire 
> series. It was an enjoyable read, but I don't think it compares at all 
> to any of the other books. Magician of course is my favorite, but the 
> empire series was definitely a good read, but nothing something I'd 
> read again anytime soon.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------




1,,
Summary-line: 27-Feb          abizet@woh.rr.com  [49] #Re: atlas
X-Coding-System: undecided-unix
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Andrew" <abizet@woh.rr.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: atlas
Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 18:27:38 -0500
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i havent sen it personally. i would love to have such a book in my
collection



1,,
Summary-line: 27-Feb      al.burl@tiscali.co.uk  [61] #Re: atlas
X-Coding-System: undecided-unix
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Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 23:38:46 +0000
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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I don't think the atlas is published... or even finished yet... is it?

Al

At 23:11 27/02/2002 +0000, Justin wrote:
>Hey guys
>i'm pretty new to this mailing list.
>I've read most of the books, but there
>is something that i know nothing about.
>The altlas of midkemia. i saw it in
>amozan. It didn't say much about it, so
>i'm pretty clueless. have you ever seen
>it? Is it just an atlas showing
>different sections of the globe?
>
>Justin



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Summary-line: 28-Feb         wolf@icenet.com.au  [84] #RE: lady mara
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From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: lady mara
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 07:50:12 +0800
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*** EOOH ***
From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: lady mara
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 07:50:12 +0800
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It's truly amazing how the list changed in 3 months. The list I remember
would have had 20 people jumping up and down abut spoiler space at
numerous times through this thread, and yet not once have I seen this.
Is it just me or is this truly odd? 

I was going to ask if the list had become a more gentle, sedate place -
but then I remember I was back in time to see the Bulletin Board
discussion :)

Dave

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu 
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Andrew
> Sent: Thursday, 28 February 2002 3:21 AM
> To: FEISTFANS-L
> Subject: Re: ladt mara
> 
> 
> i was about 16 or so when i first got to reading magician 
> apprentice. now i
> am 25 and yes i love the kingdom, but i would have to say my 
> favorite was
> when lady mara had to take control of the house of Acoma 
> because of the
> death of her father and brother. she had nothing but became the most
> powerful house in the empire. by far i feel that the empire series was
> better. now please dont get me wrong i love the series of  
> books to this
> day, but the empire was my favorite. espically when pug 
> totally destroyed
> the arena and everyone ran except macros the black. the only 
> other person
> that could out do pug.  i miss him too, but he is dead and gone after
> getting stuck in that rift fighting the astrolplane monster.
> 



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From: RBlackley@aol.com
Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 18:44:32 EST
Subject: Re: atlas
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i have a friend who has a wall map the world, i don't know if this is the 
specific map you are talking about, or do you mean an actual atlas?  anyway 
the map is really good.



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Subject: Re: atlas
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From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: atlas
Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 17:54:25 -0600
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The best map of the world is done by Ralph Askren.  Which is who I
am guess your friend is, and who I haven't seen post here in ages.
He had them posted on his site last I checked... I think it is
www.elvandar.com  IIRC.

The atlas is not finished, published, or even currently being worked
on at the moment from my understanding.  It has been discussed here
numerous times since about '99 that I can remember.  Beyond that
you'll have to get answers from Ray (best choice), or John (only
slightly less informed)

-James (in haste)

----- Original Message -----
> i have a friend who has a wall map the world, i don't know if this is the
> specific map you are talking about, or do you mean an actual atlas?
> anyway the map is really good.
>



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Subject: RE: atlas
Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 18:05:58 -0600
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From: "Lowder, Jason" <jasonl@spfld.kebcpa.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
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The Atlas of Midkemia IIRC is on hold.  Ray and Steve Abrahams have to get
together to work on this project.  I don't believe it will be anytime soon
thought.

Ray, correct me if I am wrong.

Jason Lowder, CPA, MCP
Network Administrator
Kerber, Eck & Braeckel, LLP
Business Line: 217/789-0960

-----Original Message-----
>From: RBlackley@aol.com [mailto:RBlackley@aol.com] 
>Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 5:45 PM
>To: FEISTFANS-L
>Subject: Re: atlas
>
>i have a friend who has a wall map the world, i don't know if this is the 
>specific map you are talking about, or do you mean an actual atlas?  anyway 
>the map is really good.
>


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Summary-line: 27-Feb          abizet@woh.rr.com  [65] #Re: lady mara
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From: "Andrew" <abizet@woh.rr.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: lady mara
Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 19:02:58 -0500
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to me what made the empire series so interesting was how lady mara took the
few soldiers that was left after the miniwambi nearly anilated the acoma and
then came back to end the blood fued  by publicaly embarsing the  house
leader and became so powerful. the pains that she had to endure and the
struggles are what made me love the empire saga. the abusive hubby, the
overwheling odds against her as far as the kit and kaboodle. i thought that
it was espically ingenius of her to go into the cocoa hive  to ask the queen
to build the hive on the land of the acoma instead of else where, and the
fact that they found it to be an honor for lady mara to come in instead of
having the message relayed as the other, more powerful house did.  why did
she do that? i think she did that for the simple reason that no one has did
it before and she thought outside the lines. the sign of any great leader is
they  (man or woman) think outside the lines. they are not bound by what
they are taught. i may not speak for everyone, but personally i feel that
she was a spacturlier leader. i feel that honor is a big deal, but i could
never kill myself  because someone made a fool of me in public, but they are
similiar to the ancient samuri. horor bound and would kill themself before
dishonor.



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From: RBlackley@aol.com
Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 19:12:47 EST
Subject: Re: atlas
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

In a message dated 2/27/2002 7:11:37 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
jajy@earthlink.net writes:


> The best map of the world is done by Ralph Askren.  Which is who I
> am guess your friend is, and who I haven't seen post here in ages.
> He had them posted on his site last I checked... I think it is
> www.elvandar.com  IIRC.
> 
> The atlas is not finished, published, or even currently being worked
> on at the moment from my understanding.  It has been discussed here
> numerous times since about '99 that I can remember.  Beyond that
> you'll have to get answers from Ray (best choice), or John (only
> slightly less informed)
> 
> -James (in haste)
> 

Thanks
>From Richard

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Subject: Re: atlas
Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 19:33:36 -0500
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Andrew" <abizet@woh.rr.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: atlas
Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 19:33:36 -0500
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well the website in not there. i went to take a look at the map and
couldnt find the page

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From: "James Barker" <heechee@softhome.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: OT: Spike Milligan
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 12:07:00 +1100
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Barker" <heechee@softhome.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: OT: Spike Milligan
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 12:07:00 +1100
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For those who haven't heard, Spike Milligan has died of liver failure,
aged 83. An obituary can be found at
http://www.smh.com.au/news/0202/28/entertainment/entertain12.html

The world has lost one of the greatest comedians of the 20th century.

Cheers,
James

1,,
Summary-line: 27-Feb      raymond@bittersea.com  [67] #Re: ladt mara
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Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 17:45:34 -0800
Subject: Re: ladt mara
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Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 17:45:34 -0800
Subject: Re: ladt mara
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
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On Wednesday, February 27, 2002, at 10:57 AM, James Silva wrote:

>
> Hi Ray: I don't recall the specifics but I know you metioned some time 
> back something about how the ending for the Empire series was a little 
> more "Cinderella" than you wanted it to be, but that you were kind of 
> out-voted by the publisher. Since you did mention that you thought you 
> might revisit PotB someday, I was wondering if you had any notion of 
> revisiting the Empire series as well in order to put the story more 
> inline with your original ideas.
>
> Adieu
>
> Jimmy
>
Nope.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.
>



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 17:47:22 -0800
Subject: Re: OT: Spike Milligan
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Wednesday, February 27, 2002, at 05:07 PM, James Barker wrote:

> For those who haven't heard, Spike Milligan has died of liver failure, 
> aged 83. An obituary can be found at 
> http://www.smh.com.au/news/0202/28/entertainment/entertain12.html
>  
> The world has lost one of the greatest comedians of the 20th century.
>  
> Cheers,
> James
>
>

That's the last of the Goon Show, then.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.

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Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 21:07:49 EST
Subject: Re: OT: Spike Milligan
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*** EOOH ***
From: RBlackley@aol.com
Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 21:07:49 EST
Subject: Re: OT: Spike Milligan
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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that is sad

>From Richard



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Subject: Re: OT: Spike Milligan
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT: Spike Milligan
Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 21:06:01 -0600
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Yeah, ATC on NPR (All Things Considered: National Public Radio) did
a story on it the other afternoon, and it was a loss for those of us
who followed not only the reruns/tapes of the goon show but those
shows that took the ideas and ran with it.  (Aka. Monty Python,
etc.)

-James

----- Original Message -----
>> For those who haven't heard, Spike Milligan has died of liver failure,
>> aged 83. An obituary can be found at
>> http://www.smh.com.au/news/0202/28/entertainment/entertain12.html
>>
>> The world has lost one of the greatest comedians of the 20th century.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> James
>>
>>
>
>That's the last of the Goon Show, then.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>----
>


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From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
References: <d2.14603b8d.29aecfff@aol.com> <001001c1bfef$8f59cac0$88cda618@woh.rr.com>
Subject: Re: atlas
Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 21:03:41 -0600
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: atlas
Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 21:03:41 -0600
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

You're right it is down for some reason, and since I haven't heard
from Ralph since last Spring I don't know the situation with it.  I
have to dig his addy up again, but I'll make it a point to e-mail
him some time and asked what happened (or someone else can if they
have his address handier than I do and are so inclined).

-James

----- Original Message -----
>From: "Andrew" <abizet@woh.rr.com>
>To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
>Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 6:33 PM
>Subject: Re: atlas
>
>
>well the website in not there. i went to take a look at the map and
>couldnt find the page
>



1,,
Summary-line: 27-Feb  diamondjoesmith@yahoo.com  [69] #RE: ladt mara
X-Coding-System: undecided-unix
Mail-from: From owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu Thu Feb 28 04:33:36 2002
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From: "Joe S." <diamondjoesmith@yahoo.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: ladt mara
Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 22:24:19 -0600
Organization: Elite Communications
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Joe S." <diamondjoesmith@yahoo.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: ladt mara
Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 22:24:19 -0600
Organization: Elite Communications
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

> 
> Return of Neverland is OK.  Not quite the charmer the 
> original was, but 
> not a bad film either.  My kids loved it.  My only beef is 
> they replaced 
> the crocodile with an octopus who isn't half as funny.
> 
> Best, R.E.F.
> 

That's what I heard. Also that it was made a little TOO politically
correct with the fact that while the "Indian Villiage" is still there,
the Indians aren't.

J. Allan Smith



_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com



1, edited,,
X-Coding-System: undecided-unix
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From: "Nevyn" <alien4@wasp.net.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
References: <1BB44FEE-2BED-11D6-91EA-003065A8A644@bittersea.com>
Subject: Re: OT: Spike Milligan
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 13:31:45 +0800
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Nevyn" <alien4@wasp.net.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT: Spike Milligan
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 13:31:45 +0800
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Ill never forget this one of the goons..

"Can you read cursive?" *writes and F on the chalk board*
"Yes, that says K"
"No, its an F!"
"Its a K"
*writes another F*
"Its a K"
"How come whenever I Write F U C K"?

*g* 

Thanks,
              Nevyn
_______________________________________________________________________

Not every love, but only that which has a noble purpose, is noble and worthy of praise.
 
- Plato (c. 428-348 BC)
_______________________________________________________________________

1,,
Summary-line: 28-Feb            john@crydee.com  [68] #Re: atlas
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Subject: Re: atlas
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 <001001c1bfef$8f59cac0$88cda618@woh.rr.com>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 07:11:50 +0000
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: John <john@crydee.com>
Subject: Re: atlas
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Andrew <abizet@woh.rr.com> writes
>well the website in not there. i went to take a look at the map and couldnt
>find the page
> 

Looks like Ralph has a temporary problem, I am sure it will be back 
shortly, it was there a few days ago

http://www.elvandar.com/

is the correct link
-- 
John

john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.

Raymond E Feist Ring
http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm



1,,
Summary-line: 28-Feb          abizet@woh.rr.com  [54] #Re: ladt mara
X-Coding-System: undecided-unix
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Subject: Re: ladt mara
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 03:39:42 -0500
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Andrew" <abizet@woh.rr.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: ladt mara
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 03:39:42 -0500
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

i took my 4 yr old to see monster inc. and she couldnt even stay still long
enough to watch it. it was only  like 1hr and 10 minutes. so i think that i
will wait on taking her to see any other movies. it was a waste of money
just to watch 30 minutes of a movie then leave because she couldnt sit
still. i live my kid but i hate wasteing money. espically since mine is very
hard to come by and isnt in my bank account on the same day every week. i
will go 2 weeks before i get paid so cash is a privilage in my home.



1,,
Summary-line: 28-Feb          henrik@arasoft.no  [51] #Hello!
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From: "Henrik Grotle" <henrik@arasoft.no>
To: <feistfans-l@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Hello!
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 12:00:00 +0100
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Henrik Grotle" <henrik@arasoft.no>
To: <feistfans-l@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Hello!
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 12:00:00 +0100
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Hello folks!
After some years of absense I'm back on FEISTFANS-L! I don't think that any
of you remember me but I thought I'd say hello anyway!

Henrik Grotle



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From: "MChaloner" <markchaloner@btinternet.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Spike Milligan
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 12:36:58 -0000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "MChaloner" <markchaloner@btinternet.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Spike Milligan
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 12:36:58 -0000
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>For those who haven't heard, Spike Milligan has died of liver failure,
>aged 83. 
><snip> 
>The world has lost one of the greatest comedians of the 20th century.
>James.
>

Man, that is a real big shame. I feel quite sad to know that. He wasn't
just a great comedian, he was a musician & a true poet. It's really sad
that he wasn't appreciated as much as he should've been. I don't know
what more to say. I have lots of Goon Show episodes on tape and have
done for years now - and they still make me laugh. Cheers Spike.

---
mark ;-)
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
'A man who sees a god in his master, scarcely hopes for paradise'
- Marquis de Custine
markchaloner@btinternet.com 



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Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 07:41:09 EST
Subject: Re: atlas
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*** EOOH ***
From: RMAskren@aol.com
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 07:41:09 EST
Subject: Re: atlas
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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James said:
> The best map of the world is done by Ralph Askren.  Which is who I
> am guess your friend is, and who I haven't seen post here in ages.
> He had them posted on his site last I checked... I think it is
> www.elvandar.com  IIRC.

Hi James. I'm still here! Just incredibly busy of late. I did post just the 
other day, though, about Ray being the inspiration for a character in one of 
David Gerrold's books. :-)

And Andrew said:
>well the website in not there [www.elvandar.com]. i went to take a look at 
>the map and couldnt find the page

I have just learned that the server is down at my ISP. It should be up soon. 
I will notify the list when the site is up again. Sorry for the inconvenience.

-Ralph
Ralph M. Askren, DVM
Shoal Creek Animal Clinic, P.C.
2226 Barnett Shoals Road
Athens, GA 30605
706-369-0962 Voice
706-369-0950 Fax
http://www.shoalcreek.com
rmaskren@aol.com



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*** EOOH ***
From: RMAskren@aol.com
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 11:03:58 EST
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It appears my ISP has their problem under control and Elvandar is up and 
running. Again, sorry for the inconvenience, Andrew.

-Ralph
Visit Elvandar.com and the Unofficial Atlas to the worlds of Raymond E. Feist 
at
http://www.elvandar.com



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Subject: Re: ladt mara
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 08:15:52 -0800
Subject: Re: ladt mara
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On Thursday, February 28, 2002, at 12:39 AM, Andrew wrote:

> i took my 4 yr old to see monster inc. and she couldnt even stay still 
> long
> enough to watch it. it was only  like 1hr and 10 minutes. so i think 
> that i
> will wait on taking her to see any other movies. it was a waste of money
> just to watch 30 minutes of a movie then leave because she couldnt sit
> still. i live my kid but i hate wasteing money. espically since mine is 
> very
> hard to come by and isnt in my bank account on the same day every 
> week. i
> will go 2 weeks before i get paid so cash is a privilage in my home.
>
>
>
>
"Sitting still" is a developmental issue.  Unless your child is showing 
signs of potentially being ADHA, she will develop the patience to sit 
through an hour to hour-and-a-half film sometime in the next six months 
to a year.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Subject: still cannot fine server
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Andrew" <abizet@woh.rr.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: still cannot fine server
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 11:22:46 -0500
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i still cant get it



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From: "Terri Lyn Layman" <terrilyn@ameritech.net>
To: "FeistList \(E-mail\)" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: OT: Fathers
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 12:01:28 -0500
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*** EOOH ***
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: "Terri Lyn Layman" <terrilyn@ameritech.net>
To: "FeistList \(E-mail\)" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: OT: Fathers
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 12:01:28 -0500
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I know this is off topic for the list, but I don't know where else to ask a
bunch of fathers this question...

Ummm... if your kid and your step-kid are both attending commencement on the
same day from college...

Which one do you attend?

-Terri (Who will gladly have an off-list conversation about this with anyone
who thinks they can shed insight on my situation.)



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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Larry Siegel <larry@psihawk.com>
Subject: Re: Lady Mara (heading towards OT)
In-Reply-To: <6F8EE2D1-2C66-11D6-85DB-003065A8A644@bittersea.com>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 12:05:33 -0500
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Larry Siegel <larry@psihawk.com>
Subject: Re: Lady Mara (heading towards OT)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


>"Sitting still" is a developmental issue.  Unless your child is showing 
>signs of potentially being ADHA, she will develop the patience to sit 
>through an hour to hour-and-a-half film sometime in the next six months to 
>a year.
>
>Best, R.E.F.


Ya know.... To this day.. I still remember....
The first movie I managed to sit through and watch completely... w/o 
getting up to get candy...
or go to the restroom... or sneak and play the arcade games... was ET.....

Up till then I just couldn't sit still....so that put me at about 7 i think....
I had more of an interest in playing the arcade games then the movies :)



PS - --  I just ahd to change the topic from ladt mara to Lady Mara..... 
was bothering me :)

Larry

My Homepage
http://www.psihawk.com

Raymond E. Feist FAQ
http://www.psihawk.com/feist



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 18:06:44 +0100
From: Caranorn Aglaredhel <caranorn@cmdnet.lu>
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Organization: House Phoenix
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Yep still ain't working it seems. I get the following message from my 
browser <www.shoalcreek.com can't be found, check the name and restart> 
(roughly translated from french). That is after following the URL 
<http://www.elvandar.com>.

I've seen your maps before, but thought I'd take a look once more. 
Beautiful material you made IIRC.

Marc aka Caran...

Andrew wrote:

>i still cant get it
>
>



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Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 09:43:27 -0800 (PST)
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From: Larry Scroggins <falling_98@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: OT: Fathers
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 09:43:27 -0800 (PST)
From: Larry Scroggins <falling_98@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: OT: Fathers
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I'm not a father, but the answer seems clear to me... You go to your kid's
commencement and your husband goes to his kid's.  


--- Terri Lyn Layman <terrilyn@ameritech.net> wrote:
> I know this is off topic for the list, but I don't know where else to
> ask a
> bunch of fathers this question...
> 
> Ummm... if your kid and your step-kid are both attending commencement on
> the
> same day from college...
> 
> Which one do you attend?
> 
> -Terri (Who will gladly have an off-list conversation about this with
> anyone
> who thinks they can shed insight on my situation.)
> 


=====
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Larry Scroggins

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Greetings - Send FREE e-cards for every occasion!
http://greetings.yahoo.com



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*** EOOH ***
From: "Andrew" <abizet@woh.rr.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Fathers
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 12:50:36 -0500
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Personally, I would have to go to my kids if they were at the same time. If
not try to finagle a way to go to both.



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Subject: RE: Fathers
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*** EOOH ***
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: "Terri Lyn Layman" <terrilyn@ameritech.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Fathers
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 13:06:43 -0500
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

One is in Texas (my step sisters) Mine's in Indiana.

He's going to hers... his reasoning: "You graduated in December."

Like, ummm... I didn't have a ceremony in december!

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Andrew
> Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 12:51 PM
> To: FEISTFANS-L
> Subject: Re: Fathers
> 
> 
> Personally, I would have to go to my kids if they were at the 
> same time. If
> not try to finagle a way to go to both.
> 



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*** EOOH ***
From: "Andrew" <abizet@woh.rr.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT: Fathers
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 13:04:18 -0500
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I would try to go to both, but as we have all tried before and failed. we
can't be in two places at once. even though we wish we could. However, If it
isn't possible, I would go to my kids.



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*** EOOH ***
From: "Andrew" <abizet@woh.rr.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: movies
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 12:49:02 -0500
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I don't remember the age, E.T. was my first movie too. It scared the
hebegebes out of me. Well I couldn't move. Well I have a question that has
most likely been asked already, but if so it was before i got on the mailing
list. Have you been offered any chance of a movie deal based on the books?
Yea, I can imagine the surroundings and everything, but I would love to see
how you envision all of our favorite people. Pug, which is my all time
favorite, Lady Mara,  Thomas, James. PLEASE say that it is in the works. I
love the books, and I know that with todays movie magic the arena scene
would be absolutly amazing. I would also love to see how the rift machine
would look with the tsuiranni.



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 11:11:31 -0800
Subject: Re: movies
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Thursday, February 28, 2002, at 09:49 AM, Andrew wrote:

> I don't remember the age, E.T. was my first movie too. It scared the
> hebegebes out of me. Well I couldn't move. Well I have a question that 
> has
> most likely been asked already, but if so it was before i got on the 
> mailing
> list. Have you been offered any chance of a movie deal based on the 
> books?
> Yea, I can imagine the surroundings and everything, but I would love to 
> see
> how you envision all of our favorite people. Pug, which is my all time
> favorite, Lady Mara,  Thomas, James. PLEASE say that it is in the 
> works. I
> love the books, and I know that with todays movie magic the arena scene
> would be absolutly amazing. I would also love to see how the rift 
> machine
> would look with the tsuiranni.
>
>
>
>

We are always talking to people in Hollywood and elsewhere.  I won't 
comment about film deals until one is made.

But it's not my vision, it would be the film maker's.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: ladt mara
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 19:20:09 +0000
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*** EOOH ***
From: lds627@attbi.com
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: ladt mara
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 19:20:09 +0000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Even with ADHD, she can still develop the patience to 
sit through a movie. As Ned Hallowell said in one of my 
favorite quoutes "There is no ADD with Ninintendo". IOW, 
fully engage an ADD child and they are like any other 
child.

Larry
An ADDult who has been there
> 
> On Thursday, February 28, 2002, at 12:39 AM, Andrew wrote:
> 
> > i took my 4 yr old to see monster inc. and she couldnt even stay still 
> > long
> > enough to watch it. it was only  like 1hr and 10 minutes. so i think 
> > that i
> > will wait on taking her to see any other movies. it was a waste of money
> > just to watch 30 minutes of a movie then leave because she couldnt sit
> > still. i live my kid but i hate wasteing money. espically since mine is 
> > very
> > hard to come by and isnt in my bank account on the same day every 
> > week. i
> > will go 2 weeks before i get paid so cash is a privilage in my home.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> "Sitting still" is a developmental issue.  Unless your child is showing 
> signs of potentially being ADHA, she will develop the patience to sit 
> through an hour to hour-and-a-half film sometime in the next six months 
> to a year.
> 
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
> 
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
> stupidity.
> 



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*** EOOH ***
From: RMAskren@aol.com
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 14:45:33 EST
Subject: Re: still cannot fine server
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In a message dated 2/28/02 9:39:42 AM Pacific Standard Time, 
caranorn@cmdnet.lu writes:
> Yep still ain't working it seems. I get the following message from my 
> browser <www.shoalcreek.com can't be found, check the name and restart> 
> (roughly translated from french). That is after following the URL 
> <http://www.elvandar.com>.
> 
> I've seen your maps before, but thought I'd take a look once more. 
> Beautiful material you made IIRC.
> 

Not sure what else I can do except ask that you keep trying. :-) The folks at 
the ISP say the problem is fixed. I have been able to view the pages as have 
others on the list I have asked to check.

-Ralph



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From: "" <dante@kingcon.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: movies
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 14:49:12 -0500
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I think if you could rope Peter Jackson into the project, the result would be 
massive. Not only does he have name recognition now, but he's shown 
with the first LotR movies that he's got the skills to do fantasy well.

I can well imagine his working of the Magician series would be quite 
stunning and well assembled.

I'm guessing, though, that he's a pretty busy guy now :)

> We are always talking to people in Hollywood and elsewhere.  I won't 
> comment about film deals until one is made.
> 
> But it's not my vision, it would be the film maker's.
> 
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
> 
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
> stupidity.
> 



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References: <F98A2FC2-2C7E-11D6-8AB6-003065A8A644@bittersea.com>
Subject: Re: movies
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 19:54:46 -0000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "SilverFox" <stephen@sweightman5150.karoo.co.uk>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: movies
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 19:54:46 -0000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Hey
                    Have you noticed an increase in interest with the recent
success of L of the R and Harry Potter.

SilverFox


 Re: movies


>
> On Thursday, February 28, 2002, at 09:49 AM, Andrew wrote:
>
> > I don't remember the age, E.T. was my first movie too. It scared the
> > hebegebes out of me. Well I couldn't move. Well I have a question that
> > has
> > most likely been asked already, but if so it was before i got on the
> > mailing
> > list. Have you been offered any chance of a movie deal based on the
> > books?
> > Yea, I can imagine the surroundings and everything, but I would love to
> > see
> > how you envision all of our favorite people. Pug, which is my all time
> > favorite, Lady Mara,  Thomas, James. PLEASE say that it is in the
> > works. I
> > love the books, and I know that with todays movie magic the arena scene
> > would be absolutly amazing. I would also love to see how the rift
> > machine
> > would look with the tsuiranni.
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> We are always talking to people in Hollywood and elsewhere.  I won't
> comment about film deals until one is made.
>
> But it's not my vision, it would be the film maker's.
>
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
>
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
> stupidity.
>
>



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From: Dun Xiahou <xiahoudun13@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: movies
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 13:22:07 -0800 (PST)
From: Dun Xiahou <xiahoudun13@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: movies
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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Sorry, just something I'm not sure if anybody caught. 
On the subject of ET, during the movie Star Wars
Episode I: The Phantom Menace, there is a scene with
the galactic senate.  In that scene, there is a part
in which a section of "ET" aliens can clearly be seen
in the background.  There isn't just a similarity
between them and ET, they actually took the original
ET, made a 3D model, and popped a whole bunch of them
into the movie in that scene.  Just thought it was
pretty funny.

- Xiahou Dun

--- Andrew <abizet@woh.rr.com> wrote:
> I don't remember the age, E.T. was my first movie
> too. It scared the
> hebegebes out of me. Well I couldn't move. Well I
> have a question that has
> most likely been asked already, but if so it was
> before i got on the mailing
> list. Have you been offered any chance of a movie
> deal based on the books?
> Yea, I can imagine the surroundings and everything,
> but I would love to see
> how you envision all of our favorite people. Pug,
> which is my all time
> favorite, Lady Mara,  Thomas, James. PLEASE say that
> it is in the works. I
> love the books, and I know that with todays movie
> magic the arena scene
> would be absolutly amazing. I would also love to see
> how the rift machine
> would look with the tsuiranni.
> 


__________________________________________________
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From: Dun Xiahou <xiahoudun13@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: movies
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 13:28:26 -0800 (PST)
From: Dun Xiahou <xiahoudun13@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: movies
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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That may be true, but one thing is sure in my mind: 
he has succeeded so far in making by far the best
adaption of Lord of the Rings to film in history.  Of
course, the previous adaptions stank to high heaven,
so I guess it really isn't much of a comparison. 
Actually, I don't think I would be out of line saying
that his version of Fellowship of the Ring was one of
the best film adaptions of a book EVER in my opinion.

- Xiahou Dun

P.S.  Just waiting for a GOOD director/screen writer
to adapt San Kuo...

---  <dante@kingcon.com> wrote:
> I think if you could rope Peter Jackson into the
> project, the result would be 
> massive. Not only does he have name recognition now,
> but he's shown 
> with the first LotR movies that he's got the skills
> to do fantasy well.
> 
> I can well imagine his working of the Magician
> series would be quite 
> stunning and well assembled.
> 
> I'm guessing, though, that he's a pretty busy guy
> now :)
> 
> > We are always talking to people in Hollywood and
> elsewhere.  I won't 
> > comment about film deals until one is made.
> > 
> > But it's not my vision, it would be the film
> maker's.
> > 
> > Best, R.E.F.
> > ----
> > 
> > Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily
> be explained away by 
> > stupidity.
> > 
> 


__________________________________________________
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http://greetings.yahoo.com



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Subject: Re: movies
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Subject: Re: movies
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 16:46:12 -0500
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i havent seen it yet. after gas, food, 4 yrs old needs, a few 4 yr old wants
i dont have the money. anyone on a fixed income and has kids knows where i
am coming from



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Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 23:10:28 +0000
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Al Burl <al.burl@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: Re: movies
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There are quite a few "Easter eggs" like the one you mentioned, in Ep1, if 
you know where to look.

Al

At 13:22 28/02/2002 -0800, Dun Xiahou wrote:
>Sorry, just something I'm not sure if anybody caught.
>On the subject of ET, during the movie Star Wars
>Episode I: The Phantom Menace, there is a scene with
>the galactic senate.  In that scene, there is a part
>in which a section of "ET" aliens can clearly be seen
>in the background.  There isn't just a similarity
>between them and ET, they actually took the original
>ET, made a 3D model, and popped a whole bunch of them
>into the movie in that scene.  Just thought it was
>pretty funny.
>
>- Xiahou Dun



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Hi Dun:

These are known as Easter Eggs, as in, you hunt for them like an easter egg 
hunt. You will notice that "Willow", from the film of the same name, is at 
the podrace, also, some of the ships from Blade Runner can be seeing flying 
by in the Corascuant skyline. There is a Jawa sandcrawler way, way, back in 
the distance heading towards the podrace. Also, Luke's speeder, albeit 
painted green, can be seen somewhere in the background. These are some on 
the ones I can remember off the top of my head. I am sure there are more. 
Back in Predator II there was an Alien skull (from the movie Aliens) hanging 
in the predator's ship. I'm sure that the movie buffs on the list could blow 
you away with the easter eggs out there in films.

Adieu

JImmy

>From: Dun Xiahou <xiahoudun13@yahoo.com>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
>Subject: Re: movies
>Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 13:22:07 -0800 (PST)
>
>Sorry, just something I'm not sure if anybody caught.
>On the subject of ET, during the movie Star Wars
>Episode I: The Phantom Menace, there is a scene with
>the galactic senate.  In that scene, there is a part
>in which a section of "ET" aliens can clearly be seen
>in the background.  There isn't just a similarity
>between them and ET, they actually took the original
>ET, made a 3D model, and popped a whole bunch of them
>into the movie in that scene.  Just thought it was
>pretty funny.
>
>- Xiahou Dun
>
>--- Andrew <abizet@woh.rr.com> wrote:
> > I don't remember the age, E.T. was my first movie
> > too. It scared the
> > hebegebes out of me. Well I couldn't move. Well I
> > have a question that has
> > most likely been asked already, but if so it was
> > before i got on the mailing
> > list. Have you been offered any chance of a movie
> > deal based on the books?
> > Yea, I can imagine the surroundings and everything,
> > but I would love to see
> > how you envision all of our favorite people. Pug,
> > which is my all time
> > favorite, Lady Mara,  Thomas, James. PLEASE say that
> > it is in the works. I
> > love the books, and I know that with todays movie
> > magic the arena scene
> > would be absolutly amazing. I would also love to see
> > how the rift machine
> > would look with the tsuiranni.
> >
>
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Yahoo! Greetings - Send FREE e-cards for every occasion!
>http://greetings.yahoo.com
>


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.



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Subject: Re: movies
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To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
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Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 19:01:37 -0500
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i saw a few of them myself. there are so many movies out and coming out that
i wanna see, but am unable for one reason or another. i guess i will just
have to wait for them to come out on my dish



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Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 17:02:29 -0700
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 17:02:29 -0700
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: movies
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James Silva wrote:
> 
> You will notice that "Willow", from the film of the same name, is at
> the podrace,

Umm, I dunno about "Willow", but the actor, Warwick Davis, is pretty
much a staple of Star Wars movies, having played Wicket the Ewok in
Return of the Jedi (which lead to his role as Willow).

> There is a Jawa sandcrawler way, way, back in
> the distance heading towards the podrace.

Eyecandy. This IS Tatooine, and much of the same stuff was put in the
Special Editions of Star Wars.

> Also, Luke's speeder, albeit painted green, can be seen somewhere
> in the background.

Same model, perhaps? Not out of the question. Sure, it could be the
exact same prop, but it shouldn't be considered an Easter Egg that it's
the same model.

Craig J. Ries



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Subject: Re: movies
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Andrew" <abizet@woh.rr.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: movies
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 19:32:58 -0500
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he was awsome as the leprechaun too.



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Subject: Re: atlas
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: atlas
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 18:46:27 -0600
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Hmm, I must have missed it.  I tend to ignore threads that don't
interest me much.  (Which includes most talk of other authors).
Good to know you are still here and have taken care of the problem
with the site (which came up for me this evening).  I just hope you
aren't as bloody cold as I am right now.  (Stupid 16 [~10 C] degree
weather in the deep south!).

-James

> Hi James. I'm still here! Just incredibly busy of late. I did post just the
> other day, though, about Ray being the inspiration for a character in one of
> David Gerrold's books. :-)
>
> And Andrew said:
> << well the website in not there [www.elvandar.com]. i went to take a look at
> the map and couldnt find the page  >>
>
> I have just learned that the server is down at my ISP. It should be up soon.
> I will notify the list when the site is up again. Sorry for the inconvenience.
>
> -Ralph
> Ralph M. Askren, DVM
> Shoal Creek Animal Clinic, P.C.
> 2226 Barnett Shoals Road
> Athens, GA 30605
> 706-369-0962 Voice
> 706-369-0950 Fax
> http://www.shoalcreek.com
> rmaskren@aol.com
>



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Subject: Re: movies
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: movies
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 18:50:58 -0600
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Hey can you folks PLEASE quote some previous script when replying to
an e-mail...it is hard to follow a conversation without references
to whom, what, where, and when you are making reference to things.

-James

----- Original Message -----
From: "Andrew" <abizet@woh.rr.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 6:32 PM
Subject: Re: movies


> he was awsome as the leprechaun too.
>



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Subject: Re: movies
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Andrew" <abizet@woh.rr.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: movies
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 20:08:34 -0500
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davis warwick played the leperchaun in the leperchaun. wait or was he in the
wishmaster series. blast it i cant remember now



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Subject: the maps
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 20:19:11 -0500
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Andrew" <abizet@woh.rr.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: the maps
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 20:19:11 -0500
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

it is working now. thanks. someday i hope to be able to finish my short
story, however i have had a realbad case of writers block. the reason for me
to want the maps is i like seeing the route that  they take during they
adventure.



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Subject: Re: the maps
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 19:23:01 -0600
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: the maps
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 19:23:01 -0600
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

FanFic is prohibited.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Andrew" <abizet@woh.rr.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 7:19 PM
Subject: the maps


> it is working now. thanks. someday i hope to be able to finish my short
> story, however i have had a realbad case of writers block. the reason for me
> to want the maps is i like seeing the route that  they take during they
> adventure.
>



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References: <f5.17c7ee8a.29afaeee@aol.com> <000601c1c074$2862fdc0$88cda618@woh.rr.com> <3C7E63A4.1050201@cmdnet.lu> <000b01c1c0bf$181fac60$88cda618@woh.rr.com> <008601c1c0bf$a2744560$0a93aec7@oemcomputer>
Subject: Re: the maps
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 21:00:16 -0500
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Andrew" <abizet@woh.rr.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: the maps
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 21:00:16 -0500
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

i know. this was based on my imigination. to bad i had it on disk and the
disk got magitised.



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Subject: Re: the maps
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Andrew" <abizet@woh.rr.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: the maps
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 21:02:36 -0500
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i wrote about 5 magic items that arent all they are cracked up to be. much
like turning 21 and being able to legaly drink



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 13:05:55 +0100
From: Caranorn Aglaredhel <caranorn@cmdnet.lu>
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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: the maps
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Now that has always been one of the weirdest US laws to my mind (yes, 
British too). I think I had my first glass of champagne at 10 (just a 
taste), wine around the same time, beer at 13 and harder stuff at 14. 
When I turned 18 I decided that alcohol was not all that interesting and 
actually almost managed a year without a drop (while many of my friends 
got drunk daily, 1 died and 2 others had serious accidents). Today I 
usually only drink at celebrations, after a political meeting or when 
I'm in an area particularly renowned for it's alcohol. In my opinion the 
best thing to do is let kids try it out in a controlled way, best under 
parental (or other responsible adult) supervision. Only a very few will 
step over the line and get themselves in any kind of danger, acohol also 
won't have the cult status it seems to have among young Americans. Some 
of the silliest (if not stupid) things I've ever seen were US college 
students celebrating their 21st anniversary, or when they first set foot 
here in Europe (and started profitting from the offer of cheap alcohol 
but with no inhibitions or caution at all). People who were generally 
bright in classes would turn into absolut suicidary lunatics in those 
situations. In my opinion, the US must be losing a number of capable 
minds that way.

Oh and by the way I don't fully support the local acohol laws either. 
Beers used to be cheaper then soft drinks, which obviously has a bad 
effect on the young. Now it's levelled out at about teh same price, but 
I expect some additional alochol taxes would be useful. Not too much 
though, just so it's a bit more expensive then other drinks.

Marc aka Caran...

Andrew wrote:

>i wrote about 5 magic items that arent all they are cracked up to be. much
>like turning 21 and being able to legaly drink
>
>



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Subject: the laws
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 08:14:15 -0500
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Andrew" <abizet@woh.rr.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: the laws
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 08:14:15 -0500
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I am from the states. I went to France as an exchange student. I will admit
the thought of being able to drink was appealing to me, but my family has
its share of acholics. I was just the oppisite. I started with the harder
stuff. Corn liquar was my favorite. It didnt take much for anyone to feel
nice and warm with it.  When I was over in France the first thing the family
I was with made me do was help make a vat of wine. Quite an  interesting
experiance I must say. Now I hardly touch any achole. I still love my wine
though. I can't help but wonder what would the world be like if we had
celebrated The day of choosing. I could see all them 13 yr old boys holding
a Black russian or a Blue motorcycle (very good drink you can get at
Yesterday's in Hickory, NC) , or some other intoxicating drink. I know that
when I was over seas beer was cheaper then sodas by a dollar or so. Now I
don't know. I love soda, but why pay for a warm soda when they serve their
beer cold. Well most of it anyways. German beer is served warm. What do yall
think this place would be like if that happened? I am interested in
everyone's thoughts and outout.



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Subject: Re: ladt mara
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Barker" <heechee@softhome.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: ladt mara
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 22:53:51 +1100
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


----- Original Message -----
From: "Andrew" <abizet@woh.rr.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 7:39 PM
Subject: Re: ladt mara


> i took my 4 yr old to see monster inc. and she couldnt even stay still long
> enough to watch it. it was only  like 1hr and 10 minutes. so i think that i
> will wait on taking her to see any other movies. it was a waste of money
> just to watch 30 minutes of a movie then leave because she couldnt sit
> still. i live my kid but i hate wasteing money. espically since mine is very
> hard to come by and isnt in my bank account on the same day every week. i
> will go 2 weeks before i get paid so cash is a privilage in my home.
>

Andrew, I'm amazed that no-one has flamed you before for this... The list
must be getting soft in it's old age. :)

Just a couple of tips for posting to the list:

a) Check your capitalisation and spelling. It might make it easier for you
to type if you forget about capitals, but it sure makes it harder to read.
Same goes for spelling.

b) Please quote relevant parts of the message you're replying to. Saves
everyone going "What the...?" and having to trawl through some old messages
to find out exactly what you're replying to.

If you could try and do these, it'd make it easier for all. Thanks!

Cheers,
James



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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Kenneth Jones <killkenny@thos.co.za>
Subject: Re: the laws
In-Reply-To: <000b01c1c122$fd546560$88cda618@woh.rr.com>
References: <f5.17c7ee8a.29afaeee@aol.com>
 <000601c1c074$2862fdc0$88cda618@woh.rr.com>
 <3C7E63A4.1050201@cmdnet.lu>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 15:40:03 +0200
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Kenneth Jones <killkenny@thos.co.za>
Subject: Re: the laws
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Personally I enjoy my Stroh Rum, although you REALLY need to respect it! 
That stuff is like rocket fuel.


At 08:14 AM 3/1/02 -0500, you wrote:
>I am from the states. I went to France as an exchange student. I will admit
>the thought of being able to drink was appealing to me, but my family has
>its share of acholics. I was just the oppisite. I started with the harder
>stuff. Corn liquar was my favorite. It didnt take much for anyone to feel
>nice and warm with it.  When I was over in France the first thing the family
>I was with made me do was help make a vat of wine. Quite an  interesting
>experiance I must say. Now I hardly touch any achole. I still love my wine
>though. I can't help but wonder what would the world be like if we had
>celebrated The day of choosing. I could see all them 13 yr old boys holding
>a Black russian or a Blue motorcycle (very good drink you can get at
>Yesterday's in Hickory, NC) , or some other intoxicating drink. I know that
>when I was over seas beer was cheaper then sodas by a dollar or so. Now I
>don't know. I love soda, but why pay for a warm soda when they serve their
>beer cold. Well most of it anyways. German beer is served warm. What do yall
>think this place would be like if that happened? I am interested in
>everyone's thoughts and outout.



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To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
References: <005701c1c00f$ce3a3c50$eb454218@Krondor> <001c01c1c033$7777f5a0$88cda618@woh.rr.com> <005c01c1c125$833dca20$721e3acb@jamesbar>
Subject: my spelling
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Andrew" <abizet@woh.rr.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: my spelling
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 09:01:19 -0500
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

yes, I know my spelling is atrosiuos. However, even though my major in
college is Liberial Arts. It just slips my mind from time to time and i just
don't care about if I capatlize letters or what not. I know that is a real
bad thing for someone who wants to be a writer to say, but that is just me.
I am the way I am because of the Army and my  childhood.



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To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
References: <f5.17c7ee8a.29afaeee@aol.com> <000601c1c074$2862fdc0$88cda618@woh.rr.com> <3C7E63A4.1050201@cmdnet.lu> <000b01c1c0bf$181fac60$88cda618@woh.rr.com> <008601c1c0bf$a2744560$0a93aec7@oemcomputer> <000501c1c0c5$2af564a0$88cda618@woh.rr.com> <3C7F6EA3.6000001@cmdnet.lu> <5.1.0.14.2.20020301153904.00a18110@elvandar.thos.co.za>
Subject: Re: the laws
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Andrew" <abizet@woh.rr.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: the laws
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 09:03:15 -0500
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I haven't had it. I would like to try all liquar once. Not as in mass
quanties. Just as in a shot.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Kenneth Jones" <killkenny@thos.co.za>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 8:40 AM
Subject: Re: the laws


> Personally I enjoy my Stroh Rum, although you REALLY need to respect it!
> That stuff is like rocket fuel.
>
>
> At 08:14 AM 3/1/02 -0500, you wrote:
> >I am from the states. I went to France as an exchange student. I will admit
> >the thought of being able to drink was appealing to me, but my family has
> >its share of acholics. I was just the oppisite. I started with the harder
> >stuff. Corn liquar was my favorite. It didnt take much for anyone to feel
> >nice and warm with it.  When I was over in France the first thing the family
> >I was with made me do was help make a vat of wine. Quite an  interesting
> >experiance I must say. Now I hardly touch any achole. I still love my wine
> >though. I can't help but wonder what would the world be like if we had
> >celebrated The day of choosing. I could see all them 13 yr old boys holding
> >a Black russian or a Blue motorcycle (very good drink you can get at
> >Yesterday's in Hickory, NC) , or some other intoxicating drink. I know that
> >when I was over seas beer was cheaper then sodas by a dollar or so. Now I
> >don't know. I love soda, but why pay for a warm soda when they serve their
> >beer cold. Well most of it anyways. German beer is served warm. What do yall
> >think this place would be like if that happened? I am interested in
> >everyone's thoughts and outout.
>
>



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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Kenneth Jones <killkenny@thos.co.za>
Subject: Re: the laws
In-Reply-To: <000b01c1c129$d4fc29c0$88cda618@woh.rr.com>
References: <f5.17c7ee8a.29afaeee@aol.com>
 <000601c1c074$2862fdc0$88cda618@woh.rr.com>
 <3C7E63A4.1050201@cmdnet.lu>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 16:16:41 +0200
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Kenneth Jones <killkenny@thos.co.za>
Subject: Re: the laws
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

It is a German drink IIRC, although it is very strong (80%). You can also 
get in 60% but it is just not the same.

At 09:03 AM 3/1/02 -0500, you wrote:
>I haven't had it. I would like to try all liquar once. Not as in mass
>quanties. Just as in a shot.
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Kenneth Jones" <killkenny@thos.co.za>
>To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
>Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 8:40 AM
>Subject: Re: the laws
>
>
> > Personally I enjoy my Stroh Rum, although you REALLY need to respect it!
> > That stuff is like rocket fuel.
> >
> >
> > At 08:14 AM 3/1/02 -0500, you wrote:
> > >I am from the states. I went to France as an exchange student. I will
>admit
> > >the thought of being able to drink was appealing to me, but my family has
> > >its share of acholics. I was just the oppisite. I started with the harder
> > >stuff. Corn liquar was my favorite. It didnt take much for anyone to feel
> > >nice and warm with it.  When I was over in France the first thing the
>family
> > >I was with made me do was help make a vat of wine. Quite an  interesting
> > >experiance I must say. Now I hardly touch any achole. I still love my
>wine
> > >though. I can't help but wonder what would the world be like if we had
> > >celebrated The day of choosing. I could see all them 13 yr old boys
>holding
> > >a Black russian or a Blue motorcycle (very good drink you can get at
> > >Yesterday's in Hickory, NC) , or some other intoxicating drink. I know
>that
> > >when I was over seas beer was cheaper then sodas by a dollar or so. Now I
> > >don't know. I love soda, but why pay for a warm soda when they serve
>their
> > >beer cold. Well most of it anyways. German beer is served warm. What do
>yall
> > >think this place would be like if that happened? I am interested in
> > >everyone's thoughts and outout.
> >
> >



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From: "James Barker" <heechee@softhome.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
References: <005701c1c00f$ce3a3c50$eb454218@Krondor> <001c01c1c033$7777f5a0$88cda618@woh.rr.com> <005c01c1c125$833dca20$721e3acb@jamesbar> <000501c1c129$8ff98980$88cda618@woh.rr.com>
Subject: Re: my spelling
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 01:53:06 +1100
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Barker" <heechee@softhome.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: my spelling
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 01:53:06 +1100
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


----- Original Message -----
From: "Andrew" <abizet@woh.rr.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Saturday, March 02, 2002 1:01 AM
Subject: my spelling


> yes, I know my spelling is atrosiuos. However, even though my major in
> college is Liberial Arts. It just slips my mind from time to time and i just
> don't care about if I capatlize letters or what not. I know that is a real
> bad thing for someone who wants to be a writer to say, but that is just me.
> I am the way I am because of the Army and my  childhood.
>

You might not care, but a lot of people will.

Cheers,
James



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From: "MChaloner" <markchaloner@btinternet.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: my spelling
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 15:05:02 -0000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "MChaloner" <markchaloner@btinternet.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: my spelling
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 15:05:02 -0000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Andrew
> Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 2:01 PM
> To: FEISTFANS-L
> Subject: my spelling
> 
> 
> yes, I know my spelling is atrosiuos. However, even though my
> major in college is Liberial Arts. It just slips my mind from 
> time to time and i just don't care about if I capatlize 
> letters or what not. I know that is a real bad thing for 
> someone who wants to be a writer to say, but that is just me. 
> I am the way I am because of the Army and my  childhood.


"I am the way I am because of the Army and my childhood"??
You are who you are - because of who you want to be.
The fact that you realise your spelling is atrocious but you just don't
care, just means you're lazy - it's as plain & simple as that. (Unless
of course you're dyslexic).
I know nothing of you & you're background (and God know I had a real
sh*tty childhood), but to blame the army & your childhood on your
unwillingness to correct your spelling is SO LAME, it makes me mad.
We are who we want to be. Because if we wanted to be any different, we'd
be in the process of changing right now.
*(This is REALLY not meant to be a flame - just a comment).

---
mark ;-)
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
'A man who sees a god in his master, scarcely hopes for paradise'
- Marquis de Custine
markchaloner@btinternet.com



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From: "Donal K. Fellows" <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
In-reply-to: <000b01c1c129$d4fc29c0$88cda618@woh.rr.com> (abizet@woh.rr.com)
Subject: Re: the laws
References: <f5.17c7ee8a.29afaeee@aol.com> <000601c1c074$2862fdc0$88cda618@woh.rr.com> <3C7E63A4.1050201@cmdnet.lu> <000b01c1c0bf$181fac60$88cda618@woh.rr.com> <008601c1c0bf$a2744560$0a93aec7@oemcomputer> <000501c1c0c5$2af564a0$88cda618@woh.rr.com> <3C7F6EA3.6000001@cmdnet.lu> <5.1.0.14.2.20020301153904.00a18110@elvandar.thos.co.za> <000b01c1c129$d4fc29c0$88cda618@woh.rr.com>
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Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 15:15:21 +0000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Donal K. Fellows" <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: the laws
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 15:15:21 +0000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

"Andrew" <abizet@woh.rr.com>
> I haven't had it. I would like to try all liquar once. Not as in mass
> quanties. Just as in a shot.

Don't bother.  Some of it is genuinely not nice, and there's plenty
that is worthwhile instead.  And take your time whatever you do.

Donal.
-- 
Donal K. Fellows, Department of Computer Science, University of Manchester, UK.
(work) fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk     Tel: +44-161-275-6137  (preferred email addr.)
(home) donal@ugglan.demon.co.uk  Tel: +44-1274-401017   Mobile: +44-7957-298955
http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~fellowsd/  (Don't quote my .sig; I've seen it before!)



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Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 07:22:31 -0800 (PST)
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From: Larry Scroggins <falling_98@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: my spelling
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 07:22:31 -0800 (PST)
From: Larry Scroggins <falling_98@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: my spelling
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I was just preparing my own remarks regarding that quote. I'll go ahead
and stop. You took the words right out of my mouth.

Larry

--- MChaloner <markchaloner@btinternet.com> wrote:
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Andrew
> > Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 2:01 PM
> > To: FEISTFANS-L
> > Subject: my spelling
> > 
> > 
> > yes, I know my spelling is atrosiuos. However, even though my
> > major in college is Liberial Arts. It just slips my mind from 
> > time to time and i just don't care about if I capatlize 
> > letters or what not. I know that is a real bad thing for 
> > someone who wants to be a writer to say, but that is just me. 
> > I am the way I am because of the Army and my  childhood.
> 
> 
> "I am the way I am because of the Army and my childhood"??
> You are who you are - because of who you want to be.
> The fact that you realise your spelling is atrocious but you just don't
> care, just means you're lazy - it's as plain & simple as that. (Unless
> of course you're dyslexic).
> I know nothing of you & you're background (and God know I had a real
> sh*tty childhood), but to blame the army & your childhood on your
> unwillingness to correct your spelling is SO LAME, it makes me mad.
> We are who we want to be. Because if we wanted to be any different, we'd
> be in the process of changing right now.
> *(This is REALLY not meant to be a flame - just a comment).
> 
> ---
> mark ;-)
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> 'A man who sees a god in his master, scarcely hopes for paradise'
> - Marquis de Custine
> markchaloner@btinternet.com
> 


=====
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Larry Scroggins

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Greetings - Send FREE e-cards for every occasion!
http://greetings.yahoo.com



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Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 07:56:16 -0800 (PST)
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From: Dun Xiahou <xiahoudun13@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: movies
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 07:56:16 -0800 (PST)
From: Dun Xiahou <xiahoudun13@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: movies
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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Most of these are not really purposeful east eggs. 
The actor who played willow was simply cast for the
part of an extra.  A jawa sandcrawler makes perfect
sense, seeing as how they are part of the starwars
universe.  Luke's landspeeder was supposedly an old
model, and thus it would make sense a similar model
would be seen somewhere.  The Bladerunner ship though
is definitely an Easter Egg, as Bladerunner was
totally unrelated to Star Wars.  The Alien skull in
Predator 2, once again not an easter egg.  Originally
it was planned that the 2 movie series were supposed
to be linked, the predators created the aliens as the
"perfect prey to hunt" or something like that.  Thus,
it would make sense for a predator to have an the
skull of an Alien Queen kept as a trophy.

I think Easter Eggs are really pieces from totally
unrelated movies inserted into a given movie.  ET was
totally unrelated to Star Wars, and so the ETs in Ep1
are an Easter Egg.

Then again, that's just my opinion.

- Xiahou Dun


--- James Silva <kiehtan@hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Dun:
> 
> These are known as Easter Eggs, as in, you hunt for
> them like an easter egg 
> hunt. You will notice that "Willow", from the film
> of the same name, is at 
> the podrace, also, some of the ships from Blade
> Runner can be seeing flying 
> by in the Corascuant skyline. There is a Jawa
> sandcrawler way, way, back in 
> the distance heading towards the podrace. Also,
> Luke's speeder, albeit 
> painted green, can be seen somewhere in the
> background. These are some on 
> the ones I can remember off the top of my head. I am
> sure there are more. 
> Back in Predator II there was an Alien skull (from
> the movie Aliens) hanging 
> in the predator's ship. I'm sure that the movie
> buffs on the list could blow 
> you away with the easter eggs out there in films.
> 
> Adieu
> 
> JImmy
> 
> >From: Dun Xiahou <xiahoudun13@yahoo.com>
> >Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> >To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
> >Subject: Re: movies
> >Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 13:22:07 -0800 (PST)
> >
> >Sorry, just something I'm not sure if anybody
> caught.
> >On the subject of ET, during the movie Star Wars
> >Episode I: The Phantom Menace, there is a scene
> with
> >the galactic senate.  In that scene, there is a
> part
> >in which a section of "ET" aliens can clearly be
> seen
> >in the background.  There isn't just a similarity
> >between them and ET, they actually took the
> original
> >ET, made a 3D model, and popped a whole bunch of
> them
> >into the movie in that scene.  Just thought it was
> >pretty funny.
> >
> >- Xiahou Dun
> >
> >--- Andrew <abizet@woh.rr.com> wrote:
> > > I don't remember the age, E.T. was my first
> movie
> > > too. It scared the
> > > hebegebes out of me. Well I couldn't move. Well
> I
> > > have a question that has
> > > most likely been asked already, but if so it was
> > > before i got on the mailing
> > > list. Have you been offered any chance of a
> movie
> > > deal based on the books?
> > > Yea, I can imagine the surroundings and
> everything,
> > > but I would love to see
> > > how you envision all of our favorite people.
> Pug,
> > > which is my all time
> > > favorite, Lady Mara,  Thomas, James. PLEASE say
> that
> > > it is in the works. I
> > > love the books, and I know that with todays
> movie
> > > magic the arena scene
> > > would be absolutly amazing. I would also love to
> see
> > > how the rift machine
> > > would look with the tsuiranni.
> > >
> >
> >
> >__________________________________________________
> >Do You Yahoo!?
> >Yahoo! Greetings - Send FREE e-cards for every
> occasion!
> >http://greetings.yahoo.com
> >
> 
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
> http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.
> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Greetings - Send FREE e-cards for every occasion!
http://greetings.yahoo.com



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Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 08:04:46 -0800 (PST)
X-PH: V4.1@cornell.edu (Cornell Modified) 
From: Dun Xiahou <xiahoudun13@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: my spelling
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
In-Reply-To: <20020301152231.45884.qmail@web10002.mail.yahoo.com>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 08:04:46 -0800 (PST)
From: Dun Xiahou <xiahoudun13@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: my spelling
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Everyone calm down and stop shouting.

- Xiahou Dun

--- Larry Scroggins <falling_98@yahoo.com> wrote:
> I was just preparing my own remarks regarding that
> quote. I'll go ahead
> and stop. You took the words right out of my mouth.
> 
> Larry
> 
> --- MChaloner <markchaloner@btinternet.com> wrote:
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > > [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf
> Of Andrew
> > > Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 2:01 PM
> > > To: FEISTFANS-L
> > > Subject: my spelling
> > > 
> > > 
> > > yes, I know my spelling is atrosiuos. However,
> even though my
> > > major in college is Liberial Arts. It just slips
> my mind from 
> > > time to time and i just don't care about if I
> capatlize 
> > > letters or what not. I know that is a real bad
> thing for 
> > > someone who wants to be a writer to say, but
> that is just me. 
> > > I am the way I am because of the Army and my 
> childhood.
> > 
> > 
> > "I am the way I am because of the Army and my
> childhood"??
> > You are who you are - because of who you want to
> be.
> > The fact that you realise your spelling is
> atrocious but you just don't
> > care, just means you're lazy - it's as plain &
> simple as that. (Unless
> > of course you're dyslexic).
> > I know nothing of you & you're background (and God
> know I had a real
> > sh*tty childhood), but to blame the army & your
> childhood on your
> > unwillingness to correct your spelling is SO LAME,
> it makes me mad.
> > We are who we want to be. Because if we wanted to
> be any different, we'd
> > be in the process of changing right now.
> > *(This is REALLY not meant to be a flame - just a
> comment).
> > 
> > ---
> > mark ;-)
> > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> - - - - - - - -
> > 'A man who sees a god in his master, scarcely
> hopes for paradise'
> > - Marquis de Custine
> > markchaloner@btinternet.com
> > 
> 
> 
> =====
>
-----------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Larry Scroggins
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Greetings - Send FREE e-cards for every
> occasion!
> http://greetings.yahoo.com
> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Greetings - Send FREE e-cards for every occasion!
http://greetings.yahoo.com



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Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 11:34:19 -0500
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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Larry Siegel <larry@psihawk.com>
Subject: Re: movies - Easter eggs
In-Reply-To: <20020301155616.71719.qmail@web10404.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <F141FvblsqOX74hfFfv0001a841@hotmail.com>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 11:34:19 -0500
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Larry Siegel <larry@psihawk.com>
Subject: Re: movies - Easter eggs
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

OK....

Not really worth the debate....

http://www.eeggs.com/

What is an "Easter Egg"? -
The term "Easter Egg", as we use it here, means any
amusing tidbit that creators hid in their creations. They could be in computer
software, movies, music, art, books, or even your watch. There are 
thousands of
them, and they can be quite entertaining, if you know where to look. A 
couple of
our favorites are the "Spy Hunter"-like game in Microsoft Excel 2000 and the
"Wacky Search Menu" in Internet Explorer 5. This site will help you
discover Easter Eggs in the things you see and use everyday, and let you share
Easter Eggs you discover with the rest of the world.

It's a very useful site... and very fun too.....  Now can we let the topic die?


Larry

My Homepage
http://www.psihawk.com

Raymond E. Feist FAQ
http://www.psihawk.com/feist

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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 08:41:52 -0800
Subject: Re: my spelling
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Friday, March 1, 2002, at 06:01 AM, Andrew wrote:

> yes, I know my spelling is atrosiuos. However, even though my major in
> college is Liberial Arts. It just slips my mind from time to time and i 
> just
> don't care about if I capatlize letters or what not. I know that is a 
> real
> bad thing for someone who wants to be a writer to say, but that is just 
> me.
> I am the way I am because of the Army and my  childhood.
>
>
>
>

Let me make this very pointed.  If you want to be a writer, you must 
change.  This is part of your craft.  You can't be lazy.  You must learn 
to spell (and an in-line spell checker that beeps when you misspell will 
help) and you must practice punctuation and good syntax.  In other 
words, you can't just "turn it on" when you feel like trying to write 
seriously.

If you don't do this, you'll never be a writer, just someone who talks 
about wanting to be a writer.

Best, R.E.F>
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 08:45:55 -0800
Subject: Re: my spelling
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Friday, March 1, 2002, at 08:04 AM, Dun Xiahou wrote:

> Everyone calm down and stop shouting.
>
> - Xiahou Dun
>
>

Now, that's funny.

I've been siting in front of my computer for a half-hour reading these 
messages and haven't heard even a whisper.

Look, the point being that people may react to things in a strong 
fashion but often "speak" calmly.  You're assuming tone of voice.  (Or I 
could write:  YOU'RE assuming tone of voice.  Or You're ASSUMING tone of 
voice.  If you get the point).

People react strongly when they read things here that seem to say, "You 
take responsibility for my communications; I'm too 
busy/lazy/indifferent/whatever to bother to check my spelling and 
punctuation."

It has been said repeatedly that we have a very high percentage of 
people on this list for whom English is not a primary language, and 
anything but non-standard English makes it harder for them to understand 
what is being said.

It's called courtesy.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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From: Gary Ponting <gary.ponting@van.hinz.com>
To: "FEISTFANS Mailing List (E-mail)" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Quote
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 09:21:59 -0800 
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*** EOOH ***
From: Gary Ponting <gary.ponting@van.hinz.com>
To: "FEISTFANS Mailing List (E-mail)" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Quote
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 09:21:59 -0800 
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Just thought I'd pass along this literature quote. An oldie but a goodie. It
goes without saying that she could not possibly we talking about one of
Ray's books

This is not a novel to be tossed aside lightly. It should be thrown with
great force.
-- Dorothy Parker



...gary



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Subject: Re: movies
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Justin" <justin.carew@ntlworld.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: movies
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 17:21:28 -0000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Talking of easter eggs, isn't there
something in Excel 97 which you type in
and an easter egg appears.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dun Xiahou"
<xiahoudun13@yahoo.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L"
<FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 3:56 PM
Subject: Re: movies


| Most of these are not really purposeful east eggs.
| The actor who played willow was simply cast for the
| part of an extra.  A jawa sandcrawler makes perfect
| sense, seeing as how they are part of the starwars
| universe.  Luke's landspeeder was supposedly an old
| model, and thus it would make sense a similar model
| would be seen somewhere.  The Bladerunner ship though
| is definitely an Easter Egg, as Bladerunner was
| totally unrelated to Star Wars.  The Alien skull in
| Predator 2, once again not an easter egg.  Originally
| it was planned that the 2 movie series were supposed
| to be linked, the predators created the aliens as the
| "perfect prey to hunt" or something like that.  Thus,
| it would make sense for a predator to have an the
| skull of an Alien Queen kept as a trophy.
|
| I think Easter Eggs are really pieces from totally
| unrelated movies inserted into a given movie.  ET was
| totally unrelated to Star Wars, and so the ETs in Ep1
| are an Easter Egg.
|
| Then again, that's just my opinion.
|
| - Xiahou Dun
|
|
| --- James Silva <kiehtan@hotmail.com> wrote:
| >
| > Hi Dun:
| >
| > These are known as Easter Eggs, as in, you hunt for
| > them like an easter egg
| > hunt. You will notice that "Willow", from the film
| > of the same name, is at
| > the podrace, also, some of the ships from Blade
| > Runner can be seeing flying
| > by in the Corascuant skyline. There is a Jawa
| > sandcrawler way, way, back in
| > the distance heading towards the podrace. Also,
| > Luke's speeder, albeit
| > painted green, can be seen somewhere in the
| > background. These are some on
| > the ones I can remember off the top of my head. I am
| > sure there are more.
| > Back in Predator II there was an Alien skull (from
| > the movie Aliens) hanging
| > in the predator's ship. I'm sure that the movie
| > buffs on the list could blow
| > you away with the easter eggs out there in films.
| >
| > Adieu
| >
| > JImmy
| >
| > >From: Dun Xiahou <xiahoudun13@yahoo.com>
| > >Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
| > >To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
| > >Subject: Re: movies
| > >Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 13:22:07 -0800 (PST)
| > >
| > >Sorry, just something I'm not sure if anybody
| > caught.
| > >On the subject of ET, during the movie Star Wars
| > >Episode I: The Phantom Menace, there is a scene
| > with
| > >the galactic senate.  In that scene, there is a
| > part
| > >in which a section of "ET" aliens can clearly be
| > seen
| > >in the background.  There isn't just a similarity
| > >between them and ET, they actually took the
| > original
| > >ET, made a 3D model, and popped a whole bunch of
| > them
| > >into the movie in that scene.  Just thought it was
| > >pretty funny.
| > >
| > >- Xiahou Dun
| > >
| > >--- Andrew <abizet@woh.rr.com> wrote:
| > > > I don't remember the age, E.T. was my first
| > movie
| > > > too. It scared the
| > > > hebegebes out of me. Well I couldn't move. Well
| > I
| > > > have a question that has
| > > > most likely been asked already, but if so it was
| > > > before i got on the mailing
| > > > list. Have you been offered any chance of a
| > movie
| > > > deal based on the books?
| > > > Yea, I can imagine the surroundings and
| > everything,
| > > > but I would love to see
| > > > how you envision all of our favorite people.
| > Pug,
| > > > which is my all time
| > > > favorite, Lady Mara,  Thomas, James. PLEASE say
| > that
| > > > it is in the works. I
| > > > love the books, and I know that with todays
| > movie
| > > > magic the arena scene
| > > > would be absolutly amazing. I would also love to
| > see
| > > > how the rift machine
| > > > would look with the tsuiranni.
| > > >
| > >
| > >
| > >__________________________________________________
| > >Do You Yahoo!?
| > >Yahoo! Greetings - Send FREE e-cards for every
| > occasion!
| > >http://greetings.yahoo.com
| > >
| >
| >
| >
| _________________________________________________________________
| > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
| > http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.
| >
|
|
| __________________________________________________
| Do You Yahoo!?
| Yahoo! Greetings - Send FREE e-cards for every occasion!
| http://greetings.yahoo.com
|
|



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From: "Andrew" <abizet@woh.rr.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
References: <3C2BC5BB-2D33-11D6-8E65-003065A8A644@bittersea.com>
Subject: Re: my spelling
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 15:04:33 -0500
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Andrew" <abizet@woh.rr.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: my spelling
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 15:04:33 -0500
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

        I appreciate everyones concern. Yes, I know that there are people
that find people that care just when it is important apauling. That is
something I can't help. Now when I sent in a transcript into Bantam Books.
Yes, I was very  areticulate and presice on all that I could remember from
school. For that reason they told me if I had it finished by a set date they
may publish it. I understand that the word may was in it. I also understand
that a writer's future isn't going to get approved the first time around.

        I have been told that it was missing that something that the company
was looking for, or they weren't publishing that kind of book at the moment.
I was even told it needed more imagination from a company. so I do know that
everyone is a critic. I know that everyone has an opinion just as everyone
has an ass. Some of them stink. We all are individuals, and that is what
makes us all different. Not everyone can be a Bobby Hurley, or Micheal
Jordan, or in this case a Raymond E. Feist.

    Now someday if not now I know I will get my short story out there. I am
not hard a person to get along with. For anyone that is/was in the military
you know what I mean. Basic training made me an ass, and I will be the first
to admit it. They don't care about your feelings. They don't care if you are
sad, or happy. That is how I am. I have always been the type of person that
if I was told I can't do it I try even harder. Now there are limits. I know
I can't physically have a child, so why try.

        Well I really am not trying to sound all mean, but I am not that
easily hurt and that is from my training in the ARMY.  I have found a way to
turn off my feelings. I know that would make me seem heartless, but hey I am
who I am. Now get me around my kid and I am a loveing and careing person.
Other then that I may seem heartless. If that makes me a mean person then
hey. I am the kind of person that you either like or hate. Much like Howard
Stern. You either like him or you don't



----- Original Message -----
From: "Raymond Feist" <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 11:41 AM
Subject: Re: my spelling


>
> On Friday, March 1, 2002, at 06:01 AM, Andrew wrote:
>
> > yes, I know my spelling is atrosiuos. However, even though my major in
> > college is Liberial Arts. It just slips my mind from time to time and i
> > just
> > don't care about if I capatlize letters or what not. I know that is a
> > real
> > bad thing for someone who wants to be a writer to say, but that is just
> > me.
> > I am the way I am because of the Army and my  childhood.
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> Let me make this very pointed.  If you want to be a writer, you must
> change.  This is part of your craft.  You can't be lazy.  You must learn
> to spell (and an in-line spell checker that beeps when you misspell will
> help) and you must practice punctuation and good syntax.  In other
> words, you can't just "turn it on" when you feel like trying to write
> seriously.
>
> If you don't do this, you'll never be a writer, just someone who talks
> about wanting to be a writer.
>
> Best, R.E.F>
> ----
>
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
> stupidity.
>
>



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From: Dun Xiahou <xiahoudun13@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: my spelling
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 12:07:53 -0800 (PST)
From: Dun Xiahou <xiahoudun13@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: my spelling
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

It's just a saying.  I didn't mean it literally

- Xiahou Dun

--- Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com> wrote:
> 
> On Friday, March 1, 2002, at 08:04 AM, Dun Xiahou
> wrote:
> 
> > Everyone calm down and stop shouting.
> >
> > - Xiahou Dun
> >
> >
> 
> Now, that's funny.
> 
> I've been siting in front of my computer for a
> half-hour reading these 
> messages and haven't heard even a whisper.
> 
> Look, the point being that people may react to
> things in a strong 
> fashion but often "speak" calmly.  You're assuming
> tone of voice.  (Or I 
> could write:  YOU'RE assuming tone of voice.  Or
> You're ASSUMING tone of 
> voice.  If you get the point).
> 
> People react strongly when they read things here
> that seem to say, "You 
> take responsibility for my communications; I'm too 
> busy/lazy/indifferent/whatever to bother to check my
> spelling and 
> punctuation."
> 
> It has been said repeatedly that we have a very high
> percentage of 
> people on this list for whom English is not a
> primary language, and 
> anything but non-standard English makes it harder
> for them to understand 
> what is being said.
> 
> It's called courtesy.
> 
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
> 
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be
> explained away by 
> stupidity.
> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Greetings - Send FREE e-cards for every occasion!
http://greetings.yahoo.com



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Subject: Re: my spelling
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 16:22:48 -0500
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Rich" <richse@eden.rutgers.edu>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: my spelling
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 16:22:48 -0500
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

 > Let me make this very pointed.  If you want to be a writer, you must
> change.  This is part of your craft.  You can't be lazy.  You must learn
> to spell (and an in-line spell checker that beeps when you misspell will
> help) and you must practice punctuation and good syntax.  In other
> words, you can't just "turn it on" when you feel like trying to write
> seriously.
>
> If you don't do this, you'll never be a writer, just someone who talks
> about wanting to be a writer.
>
> Best, R.E.F>
> ----
>
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
> stupidity.
>

    Does anyone have the name of an in-line spell checker that beeps when
you misspell a word?  Are they text editors also or stand alone programs
that work with something like Word 2000?  Sounds like a really useful
application that I never would have even thought to look for.

-Rich-



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From: "Donna M. Jaggard" <donna@arwen.org>
Organization: arwen.org
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 13:29:08 -0800
Subject: Re: my spelling
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Donna M. Jaggard" <donna@arwen.org>
Organization: arwen.org
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 13:29:08 -0800
Subject: Re: my spelling
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Priority: normal
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

>         I appreciate everyones concern. Yes, I know that there are
>         people that find people that care just when it is important apauling. 

I have no idea what the sentence above says, but it seemed a good a place 
as any to throw my two cents in. 

(Why is it that the majority of the time I post is only when someone comes 
along saying "I don't care how I write, if you don't like my appalling 
spelling/grammar, tough noogies"? You'd think it was a pet peeve or 
something...) 

So, I have only this to say:

Stolen blatantly from http://www.onlinenetiquette.com/courtesy3.html

If a emale is writon with speeling mestakes and gramitckal errors, you mite 
git the meening, however, the messige is not as affective, or smoothly 
redable.

...and...

"Poor writing is equivalent to someone speaking with spinach stuck between 
their teeth. Listeners and readers concentrate on the spinach; not what is 
being said." 

Now, of course, if you're merely typing randomly to see your name on your 
screen, then by all means, write however you want. But if you want people to 
bother spending the time deciphering what you're trying to say... say it right. 

And now I go back into lurkdom for another 6 months until this topic comes 
up again. :) 

-d



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From: "Donna M. Jaggard" <donna@arwen.org>
Organization: arwen.org
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 13:31:40 -0800
Subject: Re: my spelling
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Donna M. Jaggard" <donna@arwen.org>
Organization: arwen.org
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 13:31:40 -0800
Subject: Re: my spelling
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>     Does anyone have the name of an in-line spell checker that beeps
>     when you misspell a word?  Are they text editors also or stand alone
> programs that work with something like Word 2000?  Sounds like a
> really useful application that I never would have even thought to look
> for.

Slightly related, I thought I'd throw out that the latest version of
Pegasus Mail has an oh-so-wonderful typo-fixer... I'm forever typing
too fast and getting my letters out of line, and it's wonderful about
fixing them for me. :) Phew, no more "taht" and "teh". :)

-d



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Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 16:59:02 -0500
From: "Paddyjack [ ]" <erykel@lycos.com>
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Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 16:59:02 -0500
From: "Paddyjack [ ]" <erykel@lycos.com>
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>        Well I really am not trying to sound all mean, but I am not that
>easily hurt and that is from my training in the ARMY.  I have found a way to
>turn off my feelings. I know that would make me seem heartless, but hey I am
>who I am. Now get me around my kid and I am a loveing and careing person.
>Other then that I may seem heartless. If that makes me a mean person then
>hey. I am the kind of person that you either like or hate. Much like Howard
>Stern. You either like him or you don't
>
>

You got the point. People here will like you...or not at all. 

The whole concept of writing in such a mailing list is to be read by
others. Now, if there are rules and you don't want to follow them,
because your mantra in life is " take me as I am", well, the answer is
people here WON'T like you, and won't bother to read you.

Reasons about that spelling rule has been given, by Ray I think. He
called it courtesy. Friendship comes after courtesy in the dictionnary
:-)

Paddyjack


>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Raymond Feist" <raymond@bittersea.com>
>To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
>Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 11:41 AM
>Subject: Re: my spelling
>
>
>>
>> On Friday, March 1, 2002, at 06:01 AM, Andrew wrote:
>>
>> > yes, I know my spelling is atrosiuos. However, even though my major in
>> > college is Liberial Arts. It just slips my mind from time to time and i
>> > just
>> > don't care about if I capatlize letters or what not. I know that is a
>> > real
>> > bad thing for someone who wants to be a writer to say, but that is just
>> > me.
>> > I am the way I am because of the Army and my  childhood.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>> Let me make this very pointed.  If you want to be a writer, you must
>> change.  This is part of your craft.  You can't be lazy.  You must learn
>> to spell (and an in-line spell checker that beeps when you misspell will
>> help) and you must practice punctuation and good syntax.  In other
>> words, you can't just "turn it on" when you feel like trying to write
>> seriously.
>>
>> If you don't do this, you'll never be a writer, just someone who talks
>> about wanting to be a writer.
>>
>> Best, R.E.F>
>> ----
>>
>> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
>> stupidity.
>>
>>
>
>


2,000,000,000 Web Pages--you only need 1. Save time with My Lycos.
http://my.lycos.com



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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Grandad Rufus <rufo@bigwig.net>
Subject: Re: my spelling
References: <005701c1c00f$ce3a3c50$eb454218@Krondor>
 <001c01c1c033$7777f5a0$88cda618@woh.rr.com>
 <005c01c1c125$833dca20$721e3acb@jamesbar>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 22:08:29 +0000
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Grandad Rufus <rufo@bigwig.net>
Subject: Re: my spelling
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

In article <000501c1c129$8ff98980$88cda618@woh.rr.com>, Andrew
<abizet@woh.rr.com> writes
>yes, I know my spelling is atrosiuos. However, even though my major in
>college is Liberial Arts. It just slips my mind from time to time and i just
>don't care about if I capatlize letters or what not. I know that is a real
>bad thing for someone who wants to be a writer to say, but that is just me.
>I am the way I am because of the Army and my  childhood.
>

Does Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 not have a Spell Chequer ?

-- 
*******
Grandad Rufus.

It's not that I have a dirty mind, you understand.
It's just that so many of my thoughts leave muddy little footprints...



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From: "Bastian" <Calanthe@abenteuerland.org>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
References: <KPEOMCKGFPNDGBAA@mailcity.com>
Subject: Re: my spelling
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 23:43:05 +0100
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Bastian" <Calanthe@abenteuerland.org>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: my spelling
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 23:43:05 +0100
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Good evening ladies and gents.
I am brand new to this list and I followed the discussions for about 48
hours.
I am from germany, so if MY spelling isn't that correct or the
syntax...don't mind me..I am trying my best to be "readable", cause that
seems to be a keyfactor in this list.

I find it very interesting to follow the discussion about spelling.
It pretty much reminds me of the old code: "Cuius regio, eius religio."
I mean...surfing and chatting through the Internet, I really don't spend too
much time correcting what I have written.
Chat is the worst...I am typing with a "Two-Flying-Fingers-System" and in a
chat, being fast has top priority, cause the fact that you cannot read the
other persons face and bodylanguage and stuff, has to be compensated by
writing more detailed, by expressing moods with words, like: *giggle *hug
*shrugs, etc. and if you take too long to write..on the other hand..it is
boring for the counterpart.
E-Mail is totally different, especially, if E-Mail has the status of what
was once a "letter"...which it has for many people by now.
Now we are in a list and since all of us that we are here, seem to be fond
of writing or found our profession in it, it is only "natural", that the
participants lay much more focus on syntax, grammer and style than in any
other "Internet-Area"  I have ever found.

So...what I am trying to say is that I can understand if you say: "Type
correct, say what you wanna say, but do it right!", but sentences like:
<Friendship comes after courtesy in the dictionnary >, even though marked
with a smiley, doesn't neccessaryly count outside this list or outside your
little community of "Word-Acrobats".
Yet, since we all now what this list is about, everybody should do his best
to follow the religion....

Bastian



----- Original Message -----
From: "Paddyjack [ ]" <erykel@lycos.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 10:59 PM
Subject: Re: my spelling


>
> >        Well I really am not trying to sound all mean, but I am not that
> >easily hurt and that is from my training in the ARMY.  I have found a way to
> >turn off my feelings. I know that would make me seem heartless, but hey I am
> >who I am. Now get me around my kid and I am a loveing and careing person.
> >Other then that I may seem heartless. If that makes me a mean person then
> >hey. I am the kind of person that you either like or hate. Much like Howard
> >Stern. You either like him or you don't
> >
> >
>
> You got the point. People here will like you...or not at all.
>
> The whole concept of writing in such a mailing list is to be read by
>others. Now, if there are rules and you don't want to follow them, because
>your mantra in life is " take me as I am", well, the answer is people here
>WON'T like you, and won't bother to read you.
>
> Reasons about that spelling rule has been given, by Ray I think. He called
>it courtesy. Friendship comes after courtesy in the dictionnary :-)
>
> Paddyjack
>
>
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Raymond Feist" <raymond@bittersea.com>
> >To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> >Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 11:41 AM
> >Subject: Re: my spelling
> >
> >
> >>
> >> On Friday, March 1, 2002, at 06:01 AM, Andrew wrote:
> >>
> >> > yes, I know my spelling is atrosiuos. However, even though my major in
> >> > college is Liberial Arts. It just slips my mind from time to time and i
> >> > just
> >> > don't care about if I capatlize letters or what not. I know that is a
> >> > real
> >> > bad thing for someone who wants to be a writer to say, but that is just
> >> > me.
> >> > I am the way I am because of the Army and my  childhood.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >> Let me make this very pointed.  If you want to be a writer, you must
> >> change.  This is part of your craft.  You can't be lazy.  You must learn
> >> to spell (and an in-line spell checker that beeps when you misspell will
> >> help) and you must practice punctuation and good syntax.  In other
> >> words, you can't just "turn it on" when you feel like trying to write
> >> seriously.
> >>
> >> If you don't do this, you'll never be a writer, just someone who talks
> >> about wanting to be a writer.
> >>
> >> Best, R.E.F>
> >> ----
> >>
> >> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
> >> stupidity.
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
>
> 2,000,000,000 Web Pages--you only need 1. Save time with My Lycos.
> http://my.lycos.com
>



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Subject: what is important?
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 17:55:44 -0500
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From: "Andrew" <abizet@woh.rr.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: what is important?
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 17:55:44 -0500
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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    No, I am not doing this to see my name on the cpu screen. If you think
that my spelling is bad you should see me actually write a letter. It has
been said to me " looks like a doctor's note.", and it is the truth. My
penmenship isn't the best in the world. I did go to a penmenship class, but
it didn't help that much. I refuse to write anything unless I have to. I
agree and know that frendship comes after courtesy. However, if a person
lives their life trying to please everyone elses desires then they are in
for a miserable existance.
    How would people in general live their life if they if they took
everything to heart and got all bent out of shape at the slightest bit of
critism. If I took every bit of critisism to heart when I received all those
rejection letters I would have dropped the dream of getting a short story
out there in the public and dug my grave just so they could bury me.  I was
told "You will never get in the military." Well I did, and was a successful
person for it. As short a career as it was. Well I will never give up my
dream. For if one gives up on their dreams then they give up on themself. As
a parent, if my daughter sees me giving up she will think it is ok to give
up. That is one thing I never want to see her do.
    She has a dream that I know of and I refuse to see it go down in flames.
She wants to be a dancer. Well the other day I got her in a dance studio for
classes. I have never seen her light up like a Christmas tree as she did
then. What do our children think if they see mom or dad. Heaven forbid both
just give up. That is worse then death or dishonor. So I ask what is
important? Constantaly cutting people down to make yourself feel good, or
trying to assist someone in bettering themselves?



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Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 18:02:44 -0500
Subject: Re: my spelling
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 18:02:44 -0500
Subject: Re: my spelling
From: Bob Montgomery <dante@kingcon.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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I don't know about that version, as I'm on a Mac, but the Mail 
application in OS X on the Mac has an inline spell checker, which is 
very nice. I know that Outlook Express 5 for Mac doesn't have a built-in 
one, but if you have Office/Word installed with it's dictionary, OE5 
will use it to do inline checking as well.

Ray made some excellent points. I'm an awful speller, but knowing that, 
I make sure I'm using something that helps me out when typing things for 
other people to read.

On Friday, March 1, 2002, at 05:08 PM, Grandad Rufus wrote:

> Does Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 not have a Spell Chequer ?
>
> --
> *******
> Grandad Rufus.
>
> It's not that I have a dirty mind, you understand.
> It's just that so many of my thoughts leave muddy little footprints...



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References: <005701c1c00f$ce3a3c50$eb454218@Krondor> <001c01c1c033$7777f5a0$88cda618@woh.rr.com> <005c01c1c125$833dca20$721e3acb@jamesbar> <000501c1c129$8ff98980$88cda618@woh.rr.com> <UWHxBAAdv$f8Ewj9@peterswoodharlow.freeserve.co.uk>
Subject: spell check
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 18:11:27 -0500
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Andrew" <abizet@woh.rr.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: spell check
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 18:11:27 -0500
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If it does then mine doesn't work when I hit the spell check button.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Grandad Rufus" <rufo@bigwig.net>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 5:08 PM
Subject: Re: my spelling


> In article <000501c1c129$8ff98980$88cda618@woh.rr.com>, Andrew
> <abizet@woh.rr.com> writes
> >yes, I know my spelling is atrosiuos. However, even though my major in
> >college is Liberial Arts. It just slips my mind from time to time and i just
> >don't care about if I capatlize letters or what not. I know that is a real
> >bad thing for someone who wants to be a writer to say, but that is just me.
> >I am the way I am because of the Army and my  childhood.
> >
>
> Does Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 not have a Spell Chequer ?
>
> --
> *******
> Grandad Rufus.
>
> It's not that I have a dirty mind, you understand.
> It's just that so many of my thoughts leave muddy little footprints...
>
>



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Subject: Re: my spelling
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*** EOOH ***
From: Gkhd11a@aol.com
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 18:23:24 EST
Subject: Re: my spelling
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

       Andrew, I'm kinda in the same boat as you, although I'm not going to 
say that I don't care.  While you can be a good writer and be horrible 
speller, it almost never happens, and a good chance it hasn't yet.  Why?  The 
answer lies in the reason you spell bad.  If your great with words, then you 
have a big chance of being good with spelling.  I think I'm the exeption, but 
I'm working on improving my spelling one word at a time- every time somebody 
points out a mistake, or I see one in spellcheck, or whatever, I try to make 
a mental note to fix it.  And if your consantly writing, and constatly fixing 
the spelling, sooner or later your going to learn how to spell if you want to 
or not.

>      Let me make this very pointed.  If you want to be a writer, you must 
>change.  This is part of your craft.  You can't be lazy.  You must learn 
>to spell (and an in-line spell checker that beeps when you misspell will 
>help) and you must practice punctuation and good syntax.  In other 
>words, you can't just "turn it on" when you feel like trying to write 
>seriously.
>
>If you don't do this, you'll never be a writer, just someone who talks 
>about wanting to be a writer.
>
>Best, R.E.F>
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
>stupidity.

       If somebody wrote a book that used a good sized vocabulary, was writen 
good, has good plot, characters and so on, but their spelling is bad, then if 
somebody else read it, they would probably hate it.  But you then go over it 
with spell check and manualy fixing all, or most of the mistakes, then the 
book will be just as good as if they had wrote it right the first time with 
the same words.  But of course, there is a good chance that A) They would 
have used different, possibly better words if they had spelled most of the 
words correctly the first time, and B) They would not do a good enough job 
checking it and nobody would have liked it anyways.  That was not my 
I-think-so-opinion, that was my from-experiance-opinion.  

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From: "Donna M. Jaggard" <donna@arwen.org>
Organization: arwen.org
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 15:23:54 -0800
Subject: Re: what is important?
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From: "Donna M. Jaggard" <donna@arwen.org>
Organization: arwen.org
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 15:23:54 -0800
Subject: Re: what is important?
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> So I ask what is important? Constantaly cutting people down
> to make yourself feel good, or trying to assist someone in bettering
> themselves?

See, now you're getting offended. Not necessarily the point. Not my point, 
anyways. :) 

Perhaps we *are* trying to assist you in bettering yourself? I find a lot of 
people just don't realize that terrible spelling is ridiculously annoying. So, I 
tell them, and I try to explain why. If they disagree, and go on writing terribly, 
all the power to them -- but I likely won't read it... and neither will many 
others.

This would be my point. Take it or leave it. :) 

As for penmanship... well, this is why I type. *I* can't even read my own 
writing... 

-d



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> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu 
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Andrew
> Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 10:56 PM
> To: FEISTFANS-L
> Subject: what is important?
> 
> 
>     No, I am not doing this to see my name on the cpu screen. 
> If you think that my spelling is bad you should see me 
> actually write a letter. It has been said to me " looks like 
> a doctor's note.", and it is the truth. My penmenship isn't 
> the best in the world. I did go to a penmenship class, but it 
> didn't help that much. I refuse to write anything unless I 
> have to. I agree and know that frendship comes after 
> courtesy. However, if a person lives their life trying to 
> please everyone elses desires then they are in for a 
> miserable existance.
>     How would people in general live their life if they if 
> they took everything to heart and got all bent out of shape 
> at the slightest bit of critism. If I took every bit of 
> critisism to heart when I received all those rejection 
> letters I would have dropped the dream of getting a short 
> story out there in the public and dug my grave just so they 
> could bury me.  I was told "You will never get in the 
> military." Well I did, and was a successful person for it. As 
> short a career as it was. Well I will never give up my dream. 
> For if one gives up on their dreams then they give up on 
> themself. As a parent, if my daughter sees me giving up she 
> will think it is ok to give up. That is one thing I never 
> want to see her do.
>     She has a dream that I know of and I refuse to see it go 
> down in flames. She wants to be a dancer. Well the other day 
> I got her in a dance studio for classes. I have never seen 
> her light up like a Christmas tree as she did then. What do 
> our children think if they see mom or dad. Heaven forbid both 
> just give up. That is worse then death or dishonor. So I ask 
> what is important? Constantaly cutting people down to make 
> yourself feel good, or trying to assist someone in bettering 
> themselves?


I think you're taking this all out of context Andrew. Nobody is talking
about you giving up on a dream or anything like that.
Look at it this way: If everyone in the English speaking world - the UK,
The USA, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa (and anywhere I've
missed) - if we all decided we were all going to choose to apply our own
rules to spelling...? How many people do you think that is? Do you see
what I mean? How many people do we say "Oh, it's OK for you - we'll make
an exception" - 1 in a 1000? 1 in a 10,000? 1 in 100,000 (and so on).
It's just down to plain old fashioned common courtesy to make sure we
all understand each other. "I can't be arsed because of this or that"
just isn't good enough - and *that's* the point everyone's trying to
make. Make an effort - not everyone on the list has English as a first
language. Don't berate yourself over it or even see it as personal
attack - but it is a criticism to encourage you to make an effort in the
future. (Even I've got to use a spell-checker!) <grins>

---
mark ;-)
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
'A man who sees a god in his master, scarcely hopes for paradise'
- Marquis de Custine
markchaloner@btinternet.com



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Subject: a lil
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 20:34:06 -0500
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Andrew" <abizet@woh.rr.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: a lil
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 20:34:06 -0500
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In a way I am offended, but I take it as it is. Helpful advise. I have asked
it from others since getting out of the military not to sugar coat it so to
speak. As I hope that yall can tell I have tried to fix the situation. I
dont understand it. My spell check button isn't working. I have tried to
always better myself when something has been pointed out to me. To some
extent I must add. What I mean by that is: If someone dont like my hair, big
deal. If it is something i can do something about I try to fix it. Such as
my punctation and the likes of that. Sopoint taken and understood. You can
all stop the bitching about my lack of complete understanding of the english
laungage. I admit I am not an Einstein, and am not the smartest person in
the world. I am just a man. I have faults. Then again show me a person that
is alive that is perfect.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Donna M. Jaggard" <donna@arwen.org>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 6:23 PM
Subject: Re: what is important?


> > So I ask what is important? Constantaly cutting people down
> > to make yourself feel good, or trying to assist someone in bettering
> > themselves?
>
> See, now you're getting offended. Not necessarily the point. Not my point,
> anyways. :)
>
> Perhaps we *are* trying to assist you in bettering yourself? I find a lot of
> people just don't realize that terrible spelling is ridiculously annoying. So, I
> tell them, and I try to explain why. If they disagree, and go on writing terribly,
> all the power to them -- but I likely won't read it... and neither will many
> others.
>
> This would be my point. Take it or leave it. :)
>
> As for penmanship... well, this is why I type. *I* can't even read my own
> writing...
>
> -d
>
>



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Subject: Re: my spelling
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 18:59:31 -0800
Subject: Re: my spelling
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Friday, March 1, 2002, at 01:22 PM, Rich wrote:

>> Let me make this very pointed.  If you want to be a writer, you must
>> change.  This is part of your craft.  You can't be lazy.  You must 
>> learn
>> to spell (and an in-line spell checker that beeps when you misspell 
>> will
>> help) and you must practice punctuation and good syntax.  In other
>> words, you can't just "turn it on" when you feel like trying to write
>> seriously.
>>
>> If you don't do this, you'll never be a writer, just someone who talks
>> about wanting to be a writer.
>>
>> Best, R.E.F>
>> ----
>>
>> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
>> stupidity.
>>
>
>     Does anyone have the name of an in-line spell checker that beeps 
> when
> you misspell a word?  Are they text editors also or stand alone programs
> that work with something like Word 2000?  Sounds like a really useful
> application that I never would have even thought to look for.
>
> -Rich-
>
>
>
>
Spellcatcher by Cassady & Green, both for Mac and Windows.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Subject: Re: a lil
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From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: a lil
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 21:12:42 -0600
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I wish you would stop blaming the military for the way you are.  The
ARMY doesn't make you a lousy speller, and it doesn't kill your
emotions (I'm referring to a previous e-mail here).  Get a grip, and
either get a spellchecker (that works) or pay more attention to what
you are typing.  Either option will fix the problem.

Now can we move on to a new topic of some actual interest?

-James

----- Original Message -----

> In a way I am offended, but I take it as it is. Helpful advise. I have asked
> it from others since getting out of the military not to sugar coat it so to
> speak. As I hope that yall can tell I have tried to fix the situation. I
> dont understand it. My spell check button isn't working. I have tried to
> always better myself when something has been pointed out to me. To some
> extent I must add. What I mean by that is: If someone dont like my hair, big
> deal. If it is something i can do something about I try to fix it. Such as
> my punctation and the likes of that. Sopoint taken and understood. You can
> all stop the bitching about my lack of complete understanding of the english
> laungage. I admit I am not an Einstein, and am not the smartest person in
> the world. I am just a man. I have faults. Then again show me a person that
> is alive that is perfect.



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Subject: AudioBooks - Question For Ray
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Grinim" <Grinim@rogers.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: AudioBooks - Question For Ray
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 02:45:23 -0500
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Hiyas

  I was just curious what your opinion of AudioBooks was.  I have
recently become interested in them, But have noticed that you have (as
far as I can tell) Not released any titles in this format.  Have you
thought about it?  Or are you against this format?

  Chad Stephens

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*** EOOH ***
From: "Nevyn" <alien4@wasp.net.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Fw: The Wits' End Dog Training Method
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 15:36:14 +0800
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Seeing as though we're having an OT list I thought some people might get
some use out of this AMAZING dog training manual.


Thanks,
              Nevyn
_______________________________________________________________________

Not every love, but only that which has a noble purpose, is noble and worthy
of praise.

- Plato (c. 428-348 BC)
_______________________________________________________________________
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jerry Howe" <jhowe2@bellsouth.net>
To: <alien4@wasp.net.au>
Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 9:13 PM
Subject: The Wits' End Dog Training Method


> The Wits' End Dog Training Method
> Jerry Howe Copyright 1998
>
>  TABLE OF CONTENTS
>
> INTRODUCTION 4
> HOW IS WITS' END DOG TRAINING DIFFERENT? 5
>
> PART I
> 1. METHODOLOGY 7
> 1A. Common Misunderstandings 8
> 1B. Learn Today! 10
> 2. GETTING STARTED 12
>  2A. First Things First: Proper Lead Handling 12
>  2B. What is a Conditioned Reflex? 14
>  2C. How to Install a Conditioned Reflex and Teach Any Command in Minutes 14
> 3. The "Hot" and "Cold" Exercise 20
> 4. The "Family Pack Leadership" Exercise 22
> 5. Practicing the "Recall" or "Come" Command 24
> 6. Teach Any Command Through Conditioned Reflex 25
> 7. Use Sound to Break UNDESIRABLE Behavior! 27
>  7A. Other Examples of Sound to Correct Undesirable Behavior 29
>  7B. Unacceptable Expressions of Dominance 31
>  7C. More Subtle Examples of Unacceptable Dominance 32
>  7D. How to Correct Mouthing 32
>  7E. No Dogs on Beds! And Other Problems 35
> 8. HOUSETRAINING: THE BASICS 37
> 9. Roll-Over on the Alpha Rollover 39
> 10. SEPARATION ANXIETY SURROGATE TOY TECHNIQUE 41
> 11. THE WITS' END DOG TRAINING METHOD 43
>
>  TABLE OF CONTENTS (CONT.)
>
> PART II
> 1. OBEDIENCE 51
> 2. ASK YOUR DOG TO WORK 53
>  2A. Back to Work 53
>  2B. Stay 53
>  2C. Sit From the Side 54
>  2D. Heel vs. Return to Heel 55
>  2E. Sit From the Front 57
> 3. THE HEELING PATTERN EXERCISE 59
> 3A. Down From the Side 63
> 3B. Leave Your Dog on a Stay Command 64
> 3C. Returning to the Heel Position 65
> 3D. Down From the Front 66
> 4. PRACTICING LONG STAY COMMANDS 67
> 5. STAND  69
> 6. DOWN ON MOTION (ON HEEL OR RECALL) 70
> 7. CONCLUSION 71
>  INTRODUCTION
>
>  The Wits' End Dog Training Method is the fastest, gentlest, most effective,
> comprehensive behavior modification/obedience and protection training
> technique available anywhere...  And now, it's FREE!!!   It's copyright 1998
> information, so be advised:  use it wisely, and use it often.  Use, copy,
> and distribute it in it its entirety or none at all.
>
>           Our no force, no nonsense, no negative re-enforcement approach is
> unique, systematic, and unconventional, which means no dog is too young, too
> old, too large, too small, too stubborn, too stupid or too bad, to train.
> Specializing in problem dog behavior compelled us to research new methods to
> instruct humans as well as canines.
>
> ? Not everyone needs formal obedience training, but you do need a dog you
> can live with, starting today, not after lengthy training, not after your
> dog matures, not when it's too late!  This requires a basic understanding of
> how your dog thinks and learns.  That, and the "Family Pack Leadership"
> exercise, coupled with teaching the "recall" or "come" command, are all that
> one needs to effectively control the companion dog.
> ? The mistakes your dog makes are neither mistakes nor accidents.  They are
> instinctive challenges to your leadership and authority.  Wits' End Dog
> Training anticipates these impending mistakes inherent to each phase of
> training, and relies on them to turn the tables psychologically on your pet
> to convince him you are his appropriate leader, and make him want to do
> anything you ask.  Wits' End Dog Training is easy, quick, and foolproof, and
> works with every time, with every canine, even wolves!
>
> The ability to think, rationalize, and solve problems are learned qualities.
> Our enlightened methods challenge the learning centers in your dog's brain.
> These centers develop and continue to grow exponentially.  Wits' End Dog
> Training capitalizes on praising split seconds of canine thought, strategy,
> and timing, not mindless hours of forced repetition, constant corrections,
> and scolding.
>
> This manual will provide all the tools you will need to learn properly to
> handle and train your dog.  We will address the most difficult behaviors
> with effective tools, real answers, and common sense advice.  Successful
> completion of our program means you will never need another dog-training
> lesson again!
>
> We train you to use the most effective, positive, intelligent formulas,
> based on scientific, psychological, and behavioral principles, and
> accelerated learning techniques. We will teach you how dogs learn, and how
> to apply our thirty-six years of knowledge and experience to convince your
> dog to do anything you ask, the first time, every time!
>  How is Wits' End Dog Training Different?
>
> Wits' End Dog Training methodology is not concerned with "training," but
> rather teaching the development of the thought process, molding and
> safeguarding the proper development of personality, stable temperament, and
> good character.
>
> The first thing you may notice is the lack of confusing psychobabble. Sure,
> it's almost impossible to avoid any use of psychobabble, but there's no need
> to complicate learning new information with unnecessary technical jargon.
>
> Wits' End Dog Training is accustomed to criticism from a variety of pet
> professionals.  Holding different values is not a crime, although sometimes
> it might be considered a sin.  Consider how you would feel if you'd spent
> years studying at our best universities, only to be shown by a simple,
> uneducated dog trainer, that your education is obsolete, that you've missed
> the point?  You'd respond, "What degrees do you hold?"
>
> Thirty-four years ago, this trainer chose no longer to train dogs according
> to the techniques available.  It simply wasn't worth doing.  One experience
> of souring the spirit of a beautiful, troubled dog, while following the best
> advice available from the most accredited sources anywhere, was enough for
> him.
>
> Fortunately, this trainer's family, being in the kennel business, provided
> many more troubled dogs that didn't have the alternative to decline
> training.  Necessity, being the mother of invention, prevailed.  There had
> to be a better way.  I was at my Wits' End, still am, and now you can be
> too!
>
> We will never recommend seeking outside assistance or books, abuse or use of
> unnatural, artificial, or abusive training aids like electric shock collars,
> choke collars, spiked collars, scolding, staring, glaring, shaking,
> reprimanding, finger pointing, gourmet food recipes used for bribery,
> threats, intimidation, physical force, sharp commands, punishing sounds,
> punishment of any kind, or deviation from the Wits' End Dog Training Method.
> It only takes one lapse of judgment to subvert the deep trust established
> through our work.
>
> Food bribes, or treats associated with training, although generally endorsed
> by traditional trainers, is strictly against everything we are trying to
> impart through our unconventional approach.  Getting results at the expense
> of the higher attributes of learning is, we think, ignorant and dangerous.
> Any time your dog is more concerned with his gut than your desires, you
> could be the next course on the menu.  We're training companion animals, not
> pigs.
>
> For obvious reasons, there are very few training aids we can endorse.  The
> head halter is good if used properly.  There are many more reasons that we
> cannot endorse any books or publications regarding training tips.  We
> recommend not reading other training guides until you fully comprehend this
> method.
>
> ? Dogs, being pack animals, not unlike the human family, have rules dictated
> by nature.  We will capitalize on their natural instincts, and, knowing the
>
>
>
> nature of the beast, be prepared to anticipate all of your dog's options to
> cooperate or subvert your efforts to control him.  Your dog's job is to
> oppose you.   Your job is to negotiate, then compromise; ask for more, then
> give up; move to one of the appropriate defaults, and then return to your
> original desired request.
> ? Our methodology is dictated by canine logic and strategy.  Everything has
> a rational outcome that is arrived at through the process of elimination of
> undesired possibilities through a default system.  Using this approach we
> eliminate stress, confrontation, and otherwise negative influences in the
> training session.
> All we need to do is to establish a smooth flow of information and allow
> thoughts to flow fluidly, maintaining an open dialogue without becoming
> focused on the desired command, or getting stuck in a confrontation.
>
> You are going to teach your dog an entire concept, not just a simple, trite
> command. We are going to obtain strict discipline without giving the sense
> of being strict or disciplinarian.  The Wits' End Dog Training Method breaks
> ordinary dog training rules, not a dog's spirit.
>
>  PART I
> 1. METHODOLOGY
>
> There are a few prerequisites to obtain results that will last a lifetime.
> In other words, nothing will be accomplished without first building the
> foundation.  Addressing behavioral problems without establishing these
> fundamentals will waste time and further entrench misbehavior.
>
> Causes of failure may be:
>
> ? Over training, or practicing training sessions longer than directed. Our
> weekly (later monthly) training session is no longer than 15 minutes. Daily
> training  (may be every other day) sessions take only four minutes.
>
> ? Training your dog in his backyard (don't make him work in his "free
>  area").
>
> ? Not taking the time to be certain of your next move.
>
> ? Not taking time to plan your best move.
>
> ? "Telegraphing" your next move.
>
> ? Misreading your dog's intent.
>
> ? Interrupting your dog's thought process.
>
> ? Physical contact of any kind while he's thinking.
>
> ? Failure to praise every eye contact your dog makes with you (every time
> your dog glances over toward you requires spontaneous non-physical praise).
>
> ? Generally not understanding the psychology involved with teaching your dog
> to think, learn, rationalize, and solve problems.
>
> Being goal-oriented is a major error.  We have a methodology based on
> defaults.  We expect you will find some refreshing and incredible
> differences in our system, quite opposed to what have been formerly held as
> traditional truths.
>
> Don't make learning this information any more difficult than need be. Just
> relax, and don't try to commit this text to memory.  You'll probably learn
> what's important on your first review of this material. There are some
> confusing thoughts that will become clear as you proceed.  Then you may go
> back to the specific techniques to practice, so don't try to get it all at
> once.
>
> Don't expect your pet professionals to understand or accept our philosophy,
> we've tried.  We don't accept theirs.  Just understand they are only doing
> what they were taught.  Follow our system, not their logic.  Once your dog
> recognizes your goals, you lose.
>
> Lose?  YES.  Everything is different at Wits' End.  Surely you'd think we'd
> want our dogs to recognize our goals, but does Macey's tell Gimbel's?!  We
> want our dogs to work for us.
>
> To work this system, one must expect things to happen, allow for errors, and
> regard any effort, even an attempt to leave, as positive effort.  You will
> soon learn that any effort or energy, even negative, can be converted to
> positive.  Be consistent, and never try to make things happen.  Dogs don't
> like to be made to do things for no good reason.
>
> Dogs are much smarter than most trainers and behaviorists believe.  The
> ability to think, rationalize, and solve problems are learned qualities.
> Most of your dog's mistakes are an integral part of learning, and are
> welcomed here, as an opportunity to teach and provide a positive learning
> experience.
>
> 1A. Common Misunderstandings
>
> It seems everybody tells their dog "don't do this or that."  What he hears
> is only "do this or that."  Dogs don't understand the concept of  "don't do
> something."
>
> You'd communicate more clearly with your dog by simply distracting him with
> a very brief sound and telling him he's a good boy.  It's going to take you
> a while before you feel comfortable telling your dog he's doing good, when
> you've just caught him doing something wrong.  There is a system here. The
> problem is that most people think like people.  Most dogs think like dogs.
> It's all explained in the chapter entitled "Learn Today."
>
> That you can't correct a mistake after it has happened is another fallacy
> that will be dispelled in the chapter entitled "Using Sound To Break
> Undesirable Behavior."
>
> One of the most common behavioral problems we hear is when your dog barks
> incessantly at people approaching your home.  Most people find themselves
> fighting a losing battle, trying to stop their dog from barking aggressively
> at the door, fence, window, etc.
>
> Here's the scenario.  Dog says: "Warning, warning, there's someone out
> there!"
>
> You say: "Stop That Noise!"
>
> Dog says: "But there is someone out there!"
>
> You say: "Get Off The Door, You're Scratching It."
>
> Dog Says: "They're Coming In!  You're Not Listening To Me."
>
> You Say: "You're Not Listening To Me! You're Scratching The Door!
> They're Coming In!"
>
> Dog Says: "I'll Save You!  Just Let Me Through This Door!"
>
> You say: "Now I'm really mad!  You're scratching the door!  I Can't Have
> Them In With You Acting Like This!"
>
> Dog Says: "Me Too!  I'm Really Mad!  Just Let Me Through This Door!  I Can't
> Have Them In If They Are So Upsetting To You!"
>
> The situation continues to worsen; as the dog does what he knows is best for
> his home and you.   The dialogue just continues to become more confusing.
> The more concerned you become about his behavior, the more he believes you
> are worried about these unknown persons.  Your upset will make him
> protective.  He doesn't realize that it's his behavior you are worried
> about.
>
>  Here's how the scenario should be:
>
>  Dog says: "Warning, warning, warning, there's someone out there!"
>
>  You say:   "GOOD BOY! Who's there?"
>
>  Dog says: "I don't know, but you'd better be careful!"
>
>  You say: "Good boy, I can see them, it's friends."
>
>   Dog Says: "I Don't Think So, You'd Better Be Careful!"
>
>  You say: "I can see who it is, they are friends, you're a good boy."
>
>   Dog says: "Cool!  Maybe we'll have tea and biscuits!"
>
> Most dogs are simply not validated for their efforts at doing their job, and
> so many problems are a result of just such misunderstandings.
>
> We have ways of dealing with all kinds of behavior, those we can observe, as
> well as those that (in most cases,) occur when we are not present.  Most
> trainers agree that you cannot correct your dog after the fact.  Their logic
> is that dogs can't remember mistakes they committed earlier, perhaps only
> earlier today.
>
> If this is the case, then how do you think dogs can remember a "lost" toy,
> hidden under a piece of furniture many weeks after it had gotten misplaced?
> Do you really want to believe he cannot remember doing something mischievous
> earlier today?
>
> Here are two more misunderstandings about dogs:
>
> "He would never bite."  Although most dogs never do bite, you can never be
> sure that any dog, no matter how well you know him, will never bite.
>
> "Wagging tails are an indicator of mood or temper." Wrong again!  You can
> determine some information by observing a dog's tail movement, but don't
> count on it to tell you about his intent.
>
> Some things you'll be able to determine are how comfortable he is with the
> command or situation he's in.  If the tail is kept tightly underneath, this
> means he's very uncomfortable, nervous, or scared.  If the tail curves
> around the flanks when he's sitting or lying, this shows he's comfortable.
> If it is straight out behind him, this indicates he is very comfortable and
> eager to be working with what we're asking of him.  If he is sitting on it,
> with a slight curl at the base, this indicates he's in the process of
> learning something.
>
> 1B. Learn Today!
>
> Today, you will learn to use and become proficient with the "recall" or
> "come" command, through the installation of a conditioned reflex.
> Conditioned reflex can be used to teach any command, but for our purposes at
> this time, it will only be used for "recall," or  "come," as it is not
> useful in the development of higher learning and thought processes.
>
> How Dogs Learn
>
> Dogs can learn and UN-learn any behavior in four properly conducted
> repetitions.  Taken to its extreme, these four repetitions should be
> performed in four different places with four different but similar
> situations.
>
> EXAMPLE:
>
> The first time your dog hears a new command, he probably has no idea what is
>
> being requested.  When he hears the command a second time, he begins to
> comprehend.  The third time, he fully understands, but dogs being dogs, he
> is going to resist the new command.  This hesitation is called a learning
> plateau.
>
> Learning plateaus require a few moments to sort and file information, not
> unlike your computer.  I get easily frustrated with these computers, because
> unlike humans and animals, I expect a command to my computer to be followed
> immediately.  But even at the speed of light, commands need to be sorted out
> to go to memory.
>
> Just like your computer asks, "do you really want to delete this file?" your
> dog does the same.  This usually happens on the third request, or instance,
> of trying to teach or break a behavior.  So, when your dog thinks about the
> new behavior being learned or unlearned, praise (non-physical praise) and
> patience, are required during the few moments it takes to correctly file
> this new information.
>
> However, once again, although your dog may fully understand what you are
> trying to accomplish now that you've demonstrated this behavior three times,
> means he's going to try to go against your desire!  His job is to oppose
> you.
>
> He needs to think things out during the third request.  This moment requires
> praise, regardless of what the dog is thinking.
>
> ? He's going to ponder the idea, then glance at you.  Back to the idea, now
> thinking of you.  Then think about the idea, and then think about you.
> Follow his thinking, and re-enforce it with praise.  Non-physical praise
> only.
> ? You cannot second-guess what he might be thinking at this time.  Presume
> nothing.  Allow his choice to dictate your next move.  Chances are, he's
> going to continue one last try at having his own way.
> ? There are only two choices he can make.  He's either going to do it
> correctly, for which you'll continue praise, and wait for the forthcoming
> opportunity to test him out, or, he's going to do it wrong, for which you'll
> continue to praise until you are sure he got it wrong, for which you'll
> perform the correct move to re-enforce the desired behavior, while
> continuing to praise, non-physical, of course.
>
> Using this system, you cannot go wrong.  Simply praise whatever he might be
> thinking.  This process of elimination gives us the opportunity to allow
> your dog to progress at his own speed.  The third time your dog is given a
> command, he'll probably do it incorrectly just to see if you are going to be
> consistent.  Once that has been done, the fourth occasion will completely
> "delete" or "open" the new "file."
>  2. GETTING STARTED
>
> The equipment you will need:
>
> ? A 6 ft. leather or web lead.  Nylon or rope may slide through the fingers,
> causing a burn or blister.  A chain may do likewise, and is too heavy,
> making the dog feel that you are pulling.
>
> ? A flat collar.
>
> ? A twenty-foot lead, long line, or rope.
>
> ? Four empty but clean soda cans, slightly crushed so as to be "square" to
> prevent them rolling and creating a prolonged sound, with six pennies inside
> each, with tape over the opening.
>
> ? A utility bag for carrying equipment.
>
> ? Lastly, you'll need an open mind and a desire to improve the quality of
> life for your pet.
>
> 2A. First Things First:  Proper Lead Handling
>
> Failure to handle your lead properly is usually the first mistake that leads
> to your next and more crucial mistakes.   The lead must be handled in a
> casual and relaxed manner to avoid transmitting tension and triggering the
> opposition reflex in your dog.
>
> Start by opening your hand with the thumb extended and palm facing you.
> Hang the loop or handle over the thumb, and gently close fist around both
> lengths of the handle.   Close your thumb down over the second joint of the
> index finger.  Pull down so the handle is snug over your thumb as you
> maintain a gentle grasp around the handle.  This is a safety.  If your dog
> should pull hard, the handle will not accidentally slip through your palm.
> If it is imminent that you will lose balance and fall, opening the fist will
> release you and prevent a fall.
>
> Next, take the length of your lead, and bring it upward, placing it under
> the fingers and in contact with both sides of the handle in your closed
> palm.  You should now be able to pull or slide the running length through
> the palm to make adjustments. Drop your arm down to your side.  The length
> should break just at your kneecap if you're dog were in the heel position.
>
> Ordinarily, the heel position is with your dog on your left side, and the
> lead will be held in your right hand.   Your left hand must never (until you
> are trained) hold the lead while in the heel position, except to collect the
> length to return it to your right hand.  The length of your lead shall break
> just below your left kneecap.  If you need to work your dog on your right
> side, or from in front, or at a distance, the lead will be in your left
> hand.   (If you are going to heel your dog on your right side, for our
> purposes, you will need to make the appropriate adjustments with regard to
> left and right signals, turns, etc.  I recommend not doing so at this time,
> unless physical needs dictate).
>
> The heel position means your dog's shoulder is at your knee.  It does not
> matter whether he is standing, sitting, walking, lying down, or jumping
> straight up in the air!  In fact, if I could get all of my dogs to heel
> while jumping straight up in the air, I would be ecstatic.  If your dog's
> shoulders are aligned at your knee and he is facing the same direction as
> you, that's the heel position.
>
> Trivial as this may seem, nothing in the Wits' End Dog Training Method (at
> this point) is arbitrary.  Pay close attention to the above details. Notice
> that the running length of the lead should easily flow through the closed
> fingers.  The arm should hang relaxed at your side. Keep your back straight;
> don't lean over your dog.  The length of the lead should break at your
> kneecap.  Never allow the length of your lead to loop over or between any
> fingers, as this will create a block, creating tension in your hand, causing
> a bend at the elbow, creating tension on your dog's collar, triggering the
> opposition reflex, thus defeating our method.
>
> There should never be any tension applied to your dog's collar.  A flat
> collar, one that does not choke, is required to prevent unintentional
> constriction or pulling.  If you expect your dog to try to slip out of his
> collar, you may "back it up" with a choke collar to prevent his slipping
> free.  One word of caution: you should never need to apply enough tension to
> cause your dog to back up and slip his flat collar.  Whenever pulling
> occurs, just say "no," immediately give slack into the lead (without
> stepping forward) and follow with "good boy."  Tension on the collar must be
> released instantly.  If pulling continues, you may need to pull your dog
> back just one inch, as you say "no," just enough to gain the slack necessary
> to give it back to him, while praising.  This technique and a practice
> exercise will be covered in detail in the trouble shooting section.
>
> Here's a brief aside you may appreciate.  Once in a training session, I was
> instructing a male student regarding how to praise his terribly out of
> control Cocker Spaniel.  He told me flat out that he could not "do that"
> (meaning praise his pet as I requested).  This had happened once before,
> that a rather "macho" student of mine refused to follow directions at the
> onset of our lesson.  As I sadly began to collect my equipment, I asked,
> "Why can't you speak to your pet as I request?"  He lowered his eyes, and
> mumbled that he just couldn't talk to his dog "like that."  In desperation I
> asked, "Well, how do you talk to your dog?"  He said that he had a very
> special relationship with his critter, and he always talked to her in a
> particularly loving manner.  "Show me how you do talk to her," I said.  At
> this point, he began a litany of cooing and prose that in remembrance still
> causes me to choke with laughter!   I realized then that my concern was for
> naught, and my efforts would be valued and appreciated.
>
> So feel free to use your own choice of words for such commands as "praise,"
> or "take a break," "you're free," "back to work," and even other commands
> such as heel, sit, stay, etc.  Contrary to customary belief, we know that
> dogs do understand words.  We do not anthropomorphize (give human qualities
> to animals), but we do recognize a dichotomy of cognitive intelligence based
> on our experience and empirical evidence, versus traditional ideology. This
> sets the Wits' End Dog Training Method apart, for which we will remain
> eternally grateful.   One point of caution, however:  be careful not to use
> words such as "O.K." in any command sequence, as it is so commonly used, you
> may find yourself accidentally releasing or otherwise inadvertently
> signaling your dog.
>
> 2B.  What is a Conditioned Reflex?
>
> Dr. Ian Pavlov discovered conditioned reflex in the first decade of this
> century.  He came upon this discovery quite by accident while working with
> some dogs in an experiment for human psychology.  He noticed that some of
> the dogs coming to his research laboratory began to drool in anticipation of
> the food rewards that were going to be offered during his experiment, even
> prior to entering the laboratory.  This piqued his curiosity to the point
> that he needed to see what was going on.
>
> He invited some dogs to stay in the lab for this study.  No doubt you have
> heard of  "Pavlov's bell."  The dogs were presented with some liver while a
> bell was struck.  After several occasions of this conditioning, the bell was
> struck without the promised treat.  The dogs naturally got excited
> anticipating the liver, and began to salivate (drool).  Thus came the
> discovery of conditioned reflex.
>
> Conditioned reflex is just that.  Conditioning, which simply put means the
> same stimuli, presented in the same manner, so as to be exact; and reflex,
> that is to say, a reaction over which one has no control.  Be aware, that in
> order to meet these criteria successfully, each element must be adhered to
> precisely.  That is to say, the exact same treat presented with the exact
> same sound, in the exact same manner each time.  Be aware that we are not
> suggesting that you use any food for our purposes, as it would be
> contra-indicated.
>
> 2C. How to Install a Conditioned Reflex and Teach Any Command in Minutes
>
> Just as a child steps into the street without being aware of the meaning of
> the blast of a car horn, and continues on his way in oblivion, it takes
> experiences to become conditioned.  I'll bet that when you step off of a
> curb, and hear a car horn blow, your head spins both ways at once, as you
> jump back, looking for the impending accident.  The difference is
> conditioning.
>
> This is going to require a few minutes of practice, without the presence of
> your dogs.  It would be preferable to do this with any family members
> available, but may be successfully done alone.  What we need to do is
> develop a sense of timing.  Here is where the previously called for cans
> with the pennies will come in.  Have the cans rinsed clean and dry. Insert
> six pennies in each can, tape the top shut, and crush the sides of the cans,
> so as to make them square to prevent the cans from rolling, to avoid
> creating a prolonged sound.
>
> ! Silence is Golden !
>
> It is imperative that you handle these cans silently!  At any time, should
> these training aids accidentally create a sound, praise must accompany the
> event. This will tell the dog you were not addressing his behavior, and that
> he should disregard the incident.
>
> When more than one dog is present, and any dog is being addressed through
> the use of sound, each dog must be individually praised and acknowledged
> with direct eye contact and non-physical praise.
>
> Praise Must Always Accompany Sound, with one exception.  That is, when a
> behavior is being addressed after the fact.  When you have discovered a
> behavior that occurred when you were not present, this would be the only
> time the sound shall be presented without verbal praise.  The details are
> covered later in the chapter "Using Sound to Break Undesirable Behavior."
>
> ? To teach your dog the "recall" or  "come" command, we must first create a
> phrase, and select a "key" or "cue" word in that phrase.  Example: "your dog
> 's name, come, good boy."  In this phrase, we shall select "come" as our
> "key" or "cue" word.
>
> ? The objective is to create a brief sound exactly on the "key" or "cue"
> word.  The phrase must be spoken with no pauses, commas, or breaths in
> between words.  The phrase must be spoken quickly, in an even-tempered tone
> of voice.
>
> ? The sound will be applied ONLY on the KEY or CUE words ONLY on the second
> and fourth requests.   In other words, give him the opportunity to respond
> correctly on each first request following a command given with a sound cue.
> The second request must be accompanied by sound. The next request would be
> treated as a first request.  You'll see later.
>
> The first instance of any phrase you will use must be presented without the
> accompaniment of sound.  If your dog should respond properly to this first
> request, "your dog's name, come, good boy," praise him immediately, even
> before he begins to move.  Any response, the twitch of an ear or tail, a
> shuffle of a foot, a brief glance, any reaction at all, to any command,
> always requires spontaneous, instant, continuous praise, for five to fifteen
> seconds or for as long your dog is thinking about your request (even if he's
> thinking of leaving!).
>
> Continue praising constantly until your dog comes all the way to you, even
> if it requires that you move backward as you continue to speak praise and
> coax, even plead or beg, but do not repeat the command phrase.
>
> As long as you are moving backward and he is coming forward, he's still
> coming.  In this example, let's say the dog properly (maybe coincidentally)
> performed.  However, that does not mean that he will always respond.
> Remember, a conditioned reflex means that your dog has ABSOLUTELY NO CHOICE
> BUT TO RESPOND PROPERLY!
>
> Later, when you are done with all of the intricacies involved, test it out
> like this: Find yourself and your trained dog in a comfortable situation,
> like yourself sitting in your easy chair and him snoozing by the fireplace.
> Ask him to come in the proscribed manner.  When he gladly jumps up and
> sticks his big wet nose in your face, tell him he's good, and tell him he's
> free.  Let him resume his leisurely pursuits and call him again.  Repeat
> this until maybe on the fourth or fifth occasion that you call him, when he
> believes there is no point to getting up and coming all the way over to you
> just so you can tell him he's cool and that he may resume his pursuits.
> Just as soon as he refuses your trivial request to come to you, follow the
> procedure to make him come.
>
> Remember:  any time that your dog does not respond the first time you ask
> him to come, regard this as a major behavioral problem and take the
> appropriate action to remedy the situation (reinstall the come command as a
> conditioned reflex during the FPLX).
>
> So now we must try again to set up the situation whereby your dog refuses to
> perform a request.  Once again, repeat your  (1st request) "dog's name,
> come, good boy."  If he does not spin immediately to respond, instantly
> repeat the phrase with the accompanying sound:  your  (2nd request) "dog's
> name, COME, good boy," this time, using the can, by giving it one brief,
> hard, downward shake (not a rattle), and only EXACTLY on the "key" or "cue"
> word, in this example, COME.  (Upper case denotes command with sound, not
> shouting. All commands much be given in an even-tempered tone.)
>
> Let the sound from the can emphasize your "key" or "cue" word, not your
> voice.  Your voice must always be used in a calm, even-tempered, never
> commanding or authoritative tone.  If any response at all (even an obvious
> attempt to run away) occurs, instant praise, once again, is required.  For
> this example, let's say your dog chose to continue away from you.
>
> Immediately repeat your phrase without the accompanying sound and your (3rd
> request) "dog's name, come, good boy."  At this point, you might figure that
> the dog would not respond.  While this may be so, we do not know for sure.
> Observation is required.  He may have experienced the desired conditioning
> from even just that one instance of presenting the "key" or "cue" word in
> association with the sound.  For this reason, we presented our command on
> this, your third request, without the conditioning sound.  If any response
> occurred, again, even a seemingly negative response like running further
> away, praise is required.
>
> If you're certain your dog is not responding, on this, his third request,
> the request will then once again be repeated, for the fourth occasion, this
> time, while presenting the sound from another direction, preferably beyond
> your dog, and exactly timed to occur with the "key" or "cue" word.  SOUNDS
> MUST NEVER BE REPEATED FROM THE SAME POSITION TWICE IN SUCCESSION!
>
>  In this instance you will repeat the command phrase, your (4th request)
> (toss can now) "dog's name, COME, good boy" and toss your can beyond (not
> at, but beyond) your dog, so as to cause the can to strike the ground
> exactly on time with the "key" or "cue" word.  This requires just a little
> bit of skill, because the can must be ejected several moments prior to
> repeating the command phrase, (because of the distance), so as to strike the
> ground exactly at the same time as our "key" or "cue" word, and the entire
> sequence must occur as quickly as possible, and, the can must be carefully
> tossed so as not to sound accidentally from your hand while being ejected
> and you must avoid causing the can to tumble through the air causing
> inappropriately timed sounds.
>
> Yes, I agree, things sounded simple enough until all of this first and third
> without sound, and second and fourth with sound stuff.  Relax, we'll try
> this again, in "real time," and then you may try to practice on your own for
> a few minutes.  Let's run through the command sequence as if your dog were
> not cooperating.  We'll use UPPER CASE to denote command accompanied with
> sound.  Practice this while not in the presence of your dogs.  Read it
> aloud, and actually using the cans.  Set a target about 10 feet away to
> practice your throw on the fourth command.  Start now: take a deep breath,
> hold it, read aloud: "dog's name, come, good boy"- (next create sound on
> COME) "dog's name, COME, good boy"-(repeat quickly) "dog's name, come, good,
> boy"-(toss can now) "dog's name, COME, good boy."  Breathe!  See?  It's
> easier than it sounded the first time.  Try this until you've got the timing
> down so the "key" or "cue" words and sounds are in sync.
>
> If any response occurs, instant, spontaneous, constant praise must follow,
> until your dog is close enough to pat.   Remember, even begging and pleading
> are O.K., as long as you do not move toward him and you do not repeat the
> command.  Repeating commands will cause the dog to cause you to continue
> repeating commands.
>
> But are we not repeating the command in the exercise?  Yes, we do repeat the
> command, but never without punctuating the command on its first repetition,
> which will fix that command into the reflex system.
>
> As soon as the conditioned reflex is installed, the command may not be ever
> needed more than once.  That's it!  And it happens that fast!
>
> Over some period of time the conditioning may deteriorate for a variety of
> reasons.  Sometimes, calling your dog in a more casual manner might
> deteriorate the conditioning.  Not following through with enforcing, or not
> properly reinforcing correct performance of the command could deteriorate
> the conditioned reflex.  The most common reason would likely be repeating
> commands.  Dogs thrive on the extra attention, and will keep you entertained
> for countless hours, or for as long as you will repeat commands.
>
> Once any command is issued, it must be completed.  We have a system that
> will guide your dog's correct performance, or provide you with a strategic
> withdrawal.  You are the one in charge; so therefore, you may change your
> mind, as you so desire.  We'll show you how to insure that you come out
> looking smarter than your dog.
>
> The first time your dog fails to respond properly to the "recall" or "come
> " command, regard that as a major behavioral problem.  Make the effort to
> correctly reinforce the command during the ""Family Pack Leadership"
> exercise," explained in detail later on.
>
> Of course, in our last example here, the plan was to perform the command
> sequence as quickly as possible, with no pauses, just as though your dog
> were not responding and you were correctly operating the sounds.
>
> Well, let's continue, and presume that our dog did not respond after the
> fourth request.  At this point, your job is to turn and walk determinedly
> away, without looking back, speaking continuously and praising him without
> breaking your stride, without looking back, until you can pat him.
>
> You may ask, "What leads you to believe Rover is going to suddenly respond
> by following us when we turn and walk away?"  Easy!  The training in our
> next two exercises is going to instill the concept in Rover's mind.  First
> comes the "Hot and Cold Exercise," which will get the dog settled and paying
> attention to you.  Then, the ""Family Pack Leadership" exercise" which is
> the single most important training technique available.  The ""Family Pack
> Leadership" exercise," combined with the installation of the conditioned
> reflex to the "recall" or "come" command, will give you unimaginable control
> of your dog.  You could start with a strange dog, and in fifteen minutes of
> work, have him responding just as though you've been "good buddies" for a
> "dog's age!"
>
> Once again, things seem simple enough, so we'll throw in a little extra.
> Initially, just getting Rover to come, in response to the "recall" command,
> close enough to be able to pat him, would seem to be sufficient.  While that
> may be good enough for most people, the Wits' End Dog Training Method
> promises and requires strict and exacting discipline. For now, in this
> initial phase of training, it would be counter productive to be any more
> exacting.  However, after this initial phase of training is complete (maybe
> just one session of work, but do follow directions, and do this four times),
> you will be expected to cause your dog to sit directly in front of you
> during the "recall" or "come" exercise.  This will be extremely important in
> the "big picture."  But, for now, we do not need to be so exact.  The hard
> part is done!
>  3. The "Hot" And "Cold" Exercise
>
> Remember the children's game in which an object is selected, and the one who
> is "it" is directed to find same based on directions of "hot or cold" to
> indicate proximity to the object?  We are going to do the same with your dog
> 's attention, with you being the selected object.
>
> This "Hot and Cold" exercise takes about two minutes to perform.  Done
> properly, this exercise will have the effect of shutting off his attention
> to anything other than you.  This practice should be used any time your dog
> becomes distracted or is not keeping his attention focused on you.  Our
> objective is to cause your dog always to have one ear and one eye focused on
> you.  If this is done correctly, your dog will end up directly in front of
> you, relaxed, and waiting for your next idea.
>
> To begin, ask your dog if he "wants to go to work," tell him "good boy," as
> you show him your lead, and lean back from him.  This will help command his
> attention up and toward you, without focusing on putting on the lead.  We
> want to be sure not to give the impression that we're assaulting him with
> the lead!   Bend at the knees, keeping your back straight as you attach your
> lead to his collar, gently talking, but not physically touching any more
> than necessary.  Tell him he's a good boy as you head out the door.  As soon
> as you have cleared the area in front of your door, come to a halt.
>
> As your dog moves forward and back, around and in front of you, allow your
> lead to flow smoothly through your hands, the free hand reaching out to
> collect your lead at its mid point, and place it in the palm with the handle
> to keep it out from under your dog's feet as he moves in towards you,
> playing it out as he moves away, collecting it as he returns.  Just get used
> to the feeling of allowing your lead to flow through your hands, collecting
> it again, and allow it to feed out as your dog moves.  Be sure not to pull
> or allow tension on the collar.  Do not lean toward your dog or move toward
> him, as this will cause the opposite effect, consequently subordinating
> yourself and subverting your efforts.
>
> If your dog looks toward you, you'll tell him he's a good boy.  Always,
> every time, no exceptions ever, no matter what, when, or where, if your dog
> looks toward you, even a brief momentary glance out of the corner of his
> eye, that requires praise.  This rule will never vary.
>
> If he looks away, gently, in a conversational tone, tell him "no," followed
> by "good."  Always, every time, no exceptions ever, no matter what, when, or
> where: Anytime we say "no," we must always say "good" immediately
> thereafter.  This rule will never vary: any time you say "no" you must say
> "good" instantly, otherwise he'll not figure out what we want.  (Remember,
> we are using a system that allows your dog to think through the process of
> elimination.)
>
> If he looks toward you, tell him "good boy" again, and continue to repeat
> "good boy" intermittently until his attention drifts away.  As soon as his
> attention fades, once again say "no," immediately followed once again by
> "good boy."  Continue praising until his attention drifts once again.  As
> soon as his attention becomes fixed elsewhere, say "no," and again follow
> with praise.  If necessary, squatting down may bring him in close, but we
> don't want to call or force him in.  After just two or three minutes the dog
> should be settled and paying attention to you with one eye and one ear and
> his tail gently swaying.
>
>  4. The "Family Pack Leadership" Exercise
>    (This Exercise May Be Done Solo)
>
> Before starting the "Family Pack Leadership" exercise, you should perform
> the "Hot and Cold" exercise to get your dog's attention focused on you.
>
> Because of its simplicity, the "Family Pack Leadership" exercise is often
> discounted or ignored.  By the way, you don't need your entire family to do
> this exercise.  You may do it with some family members, or even by yourself.
> The "Family Pack Leadership" exercise is equally important as the "recall"
> or "come" command.  It is the basis for your total relationship with your
> dog, your success or failure as a team, but its subtlety is deceiving.  It
> requires about fifteen minutes to perform on the first occasion, about
> twelve minutes for the second occasion, about eight minutes on the third
> occasion, and no more than six to eight minutes on successive occasions.
> This exercise must be done with the entire family on four successive
> occasions, preferably in four different locations.  (The ideal scenario
> would be to perform the "Family Pack Leadership" exercise four times at the
> first location, four times at the second location, four times at the third
> location, and four times at the fourth location).
>
> Thereafter, this exercise should be used as needed, that is, any time your
> dog seems not to pay close attention to you, or seems easily distracted, or
> any time any behavior problems arise.  It is a good practice to do on a
> weekly basis (just once, at one location is fine) after the initial series,
> later, on a monthly basis, kind of like a "tune up."  If you've noticed a
> pattern developing here, you're right: Dogs learn on the basis of four
> properly performed repetitions.  These applications should be performed in
> four different locations or training situations.
>
> You are going to be walking with all of the immediate members of your
> family, and your dog, in a large square.  What you will need is an area
> large enough to encompass a twenty-foot square area, including additional
> space to provide clearance for the length of your twenty-foot lead.  In
> other words, you will need a 60'x60' area.  If it is impossible to find such
> a large area, you could get by with less space.   Once again, although
> training should not be conducted in your dog's own back yard, this exercise
> and "COME" ARE exceptions to the rule.  Insofar as it is necessary to do
> these exercises in his back yard, you will find it counterproductive if over
> used.
>
> If you are with the members of your family, gather in a close-knit group,
> and proceed to walk as one unit from your starting point, at the rate of
> about one step per second, forward, for the distance of 20 feet.  Do not
> look at your dog.  If he moves along with you, tell him he's a good boy.
> Everybody must speak, all together.  If he looks up at you, that requires
> praise.  If he does not follow the group, that's fine.  Every time he comes
> toward the family, praise him.  If he wanders off, that's fine too.  As he
> returns to you, praise. Turn left at your first 20-foot mark, and proceed
> slowly on the second leg of this square. Each time he looks up at you,
> praise.  If he wanders, that's fine; do not speak to him unless he is
> returning toward the family pack.  Notice where the turns are, and try to
> find each corner of this square as you continue walking slowly to your next
> corner and turn left again.
>
> As you proceed around this imaginary square, simply praise him as he returns
> to the family pack, and ignore him as he wanders away.  You will notice that
> as you continue around this square, your dog will begin to stay closer to
> the family pack.
>
> On about your fourth trip around the square, your dog should be fairly
> comfortable maintaining a close proximity to the group.  When this is so,
> simply come to a halt at any corner of our square.  Face each other, and
> speak amongst yourselves.  Your dog should be ignored, unless he looks
> directly up at the family, for which praise is required.  If he comes close
> enough, a pat would be in order.
>
> Remain at this corner, chatting casually, until our subject dog joins the
> group, but for no longer than two minutes.  When Rover settles next to the
> family, give him just another moment or two to get nice and comfortable.
> Now, altogether and on cue, without telegraphing this to our subject dog,
> move forward all together, slowly toward your next corner.  As soon as your
> dog starts to get up to follow, everyone must sound off with praise, and
> everyone must stop praising just as soon as your dog's attention wanders, or
> he moves away toward the end of his 20-foot lead.  As before, come to a halt
> at your next corner, face each other and converse casually amongst
> yourselves until your dog joins the group, settles, or gets comfortable, and
> then as before, move forward toward the next corner as a group.  Repeat this
> at each corner.  That's it!
>
> Now, the reason we covered the "recall" or "come" command at the very
> beginning, is because during the "Family Pack Leadership" exercise," you
> will likely have several opportunities to install the conditioned reflex.
> At some point during this "Family Pack Leadership" exercise, I expect your
> dog will go all the way off to the end of his 20-foot lead, and not care to
> follow the family.  Or, he may become distracted looking around at whatever
> might interest him.   If he gets involved smelling a spot, or looking at
> something, and your pack has moved to the point where your lead is becoming
> taut, stop.   Do not pull.  Turn facing your dog, and use the cans to
> condition him to "come" at this time.  One member of the family should be
> responsible for working the command, but every member should participate
> with the praise as your dog is coming in on the "recall."  Also, if it is
> necessary to back up to help to coax him to come to you, the entire family
> should also participate in backing up.
>
> If these directions have been followed properly, the obvious difference in
> your dog's demeanor and attitude will be stunning.
>  5. Practicing The "Recall" or "Come" Command
>
> After completing the pre-requisite ""Family Pack Leadership" exercise, any
> area is good to complete training to install this conditioned reflex. Note:
> to ensure that the "recall" or "come" command is properly installed, ideally
> you should achieve four perfect recalls on lead during each training
> session, in four different locations.  It is vital to achieve this before
> practicing the "recall" or "come" command off lead.
>
> The "recall" or "come" command may be practiced on lead anywhere, off lead
> in a fenced area, or inside the house, if there are no hiding places that
> your dog may get into or under..  Let's not defeat ourselves by attempting
> to do something prematurely-that is, not properly installing the command
> prior to attempting it in a more difficult situation, or a command we know
> he is going to resist, without having done all of the basics, prior to
> attempting to tempt fate!  If you know your dog has never come to you after
> he has gone under the couch to hide, don't try calling him out from under
> there, or even in that room, because you know that as soon as you call him,
> he's going to try to escape to the security of where you can't get him,
> until you have accomplished the preliminaries, and you know he is properly
> conditioned in at least four other places.
>
> Let's say we're dealing with a real sharp dog, one that knows just how to
> manipulate each of the family, one against the other, each in turn.  You
> know the kind I'm talking about, the one who's just "so cute," he takes
> advantage of any opportunity to get his way, usually ending with a fight
> between family members.  Got one like that?  Just because we're gentle and
> humane, does not mean we can't be vindictive.  Let's get ready to burst his
> bubble!
>
> Divide yourselves into two groups, equally divided between those whom he
> favors.  Each group will have one can, and one person responsible for
> operating the manipulation of the sound cues.  Of course, the person in
> command will change, as each individual takes his or her turn.  Remember, it
> is not necessary to have the person responsible for issuing the command also
> responsible for creating the sounds, unless they are proficient at this
> technique.
>
> Using the 20-foot lead, space yourselves 20 feet apart.  Observe carefully
> to determine which group should issue the "recall" or  "come" command, based
> upon whomever he is least attentive towards.  Issue the requests to come as
> previously described. In the event we need to pursue this command to its
> fourth request, the second group will create the sound on the fourth
> occasion, and one and all, moving together will continue towards the group
> issuing the command and lead the dog as a group toward the individual
> issuing the command, until completed upon being petted.  Spend a few moments
> socializing among you, as a subterfuge, and then drift apart to repeat this
> exercise as necessary.
>
> This will have the effect of putting your dog at the bottom of the ladder of
> the pecking order of importance, and everyone else above, which will take
> away his sense of being a peer, or equal in importance, to any member of
> your family.  Once again, as always, successfully repeat this exercise at
> least four times with each individual, and do so in four different places.
> If these exercises are done properly, it should feel like you've got a new
> dog at home, and he'd feel better fast, knowing that everyone in his family
> is an appropriate leader.
>
>  6. Teach Any Command Through Conditioned Reflex
>
> Any command may be taught in the same manner as you have just learned. Don'
> t use this technique indiscriminately.  We can work several commands at
> once, but right now while everyone is just getting familiar with this new
> approach, and your dog is still "upside-down" with the changes he's going
> through, don't rush.
>
> Here is an example of a commonly desired command that you will find useful.
> This example is meant to more thoroughly show you the concept.  Any command,
> for any reason, in any circumstances, can be substituted.  But remember, we
> do not want your dog to "do things," but learn things.  Conditioned reflex
> makes things happen, without understanding.  Use it sparingly, especially at
> the beginning.
>
> Let's say you want your pet to go in the other room.  You might select the
> phrase, "go in the other room, good boy."  You might select the word room as
> your  "key" or "cue" word.  Present your command in the described manner,
> and continue on to your fourth request, and present your sound appropriately
> beyond your dog.  At this, move forward while continuing to praise him as
> you go into the ordered room, and thoroughly praise and pat him upon
> completion.
>
> But what if he did not follow through?  Defer to your "come" command, to
> which you know he has been properly conditioned.  Upon completing the "come"
> command, you should find him there, in the other room, with yourself. Now,
> as you return to where you were when you first issued your command to "go in
> the other room good boy," and you should find your dog satisfactorily
> waiting in the other room.
>
> Don't be surprised if you find him right there with you, in your original
> places.  What went wrong?  Well, if he negotiated his way into the other
> room, even if only to follow you on your fourth request, did he not perform
> the original command?  Of course he did, but he immediately broke it when
> you left that room.
>
> What may be done when your dog breaks his command?  Also, what may be done
> when your dog does a behavior you would rather he not do?
>
>  7. Use Sound To Break UNDESIRABLE Behavior!
>
> The fastest, easiest, and most effective approach is to recreate the
> undesired situation in a controlled setting, and correctly use sound
> distractions with praise to erase the misbehavior.
>
> Please note:  any sound may be used as long as it is variable in direction,
> which is why we use the cans with pennies.  The sound doesn't have to be
> loud, only noticeable.  The source of sound must be brief, and you should be
> able to present it from different directions on each consecutive instance.
> Snapping fingers from random directions (if you're close to the dog),
> followed by praise, will work fine.  You may also use keys or whatever else
> comes to mind, only remember that the dog should take notice of the sound.
>
> Dogs can learn or unlearn almost anything in four properly conducted
> repetitions.  Taken to its extreme, these four repetitions should be
> performed in four different places, or with different people, dogs, or
> whatever the "props" involved may be.
>
> Understanding how dogs think, learn, and process information is a stretch of
> the imagination for most of us.  It is obvious that they know more about
> psychology than we do.  They think, have a sense of humor, communicate,
> tease, lie, steal, etc., just like any one else.  But they don't think like
> humans.  Dogs are limited to thinking like dogs.  It's your responsibility
> to think things out from their perspective and try to use good judgment. Be
> consistent.  Dogs get confused if you're not consistent.
>
> Now that you are getting familiar with teaching a command through
> conditioned reflex, you can use similar techniques to stop or break any
> behavior whatsoever.
>
> Using the cans (or other source of sound so long as it is brief, and so long
> as it can be presented from different directions), on each consecutive
> instance, are all that you need to do to break any behavior.   Simply create
> the sound, and follow through with praise!  It's that simple.  Any behavior
> can be stopped or broken, simply by creating a sound, and praising
> immediately.
>
> The secret is to allow the undesired behavior to begin again, and simply
> present the sound from another direction, and follow through with praise. Of
> course you have to understand how your dog thinks and learns in order to
> achieve this successfully.  Each time you create a sound to stop or break a
> behavior, you must praise him INSTANTLY and continue for as long as he
> refrains from continuing such behavior (at least until he no longer thinks
> about that instance, usually ten or fifteen seconds), and be prepared to
> create your sound distraction and praise as soon as the behavior begins
> again.
>
>  This is the sticking point with so many trainers.  "Why should I praise
> this critter if he's not even doing what I want?"  Remember, dogs do not
> think in human terms.   Most behavioral problems are simply a failure to
> communicate clearly.
>
> This is a scientific conditioning technique, and it cannot fail if you use
> the techniques accordingly.
>
> Of course, you could continue correcting your dog forever, as most trainers
> do.  We do not understand why a trained dog needs correction.  If he were
> trained, that should be the end of the matter.  This would imply that if a
> trained dog makes a mistake, that this mistake is probably not an accident,
> but rather, a failure of the training methods used, not a challenge to your
> authority.  Perhaps this is why so many trainers seem to enjoy correcting
> their dogs forever.  I suppose the real reason it is so difficult for us to
> share the Wits' End Dog Training Method with other pet professionals, is
> because we take all the satisfaction out of  "dealing with" an obstreperous
> dog.
>
> The problem is that corrections do not teach new behavior.  Our technique
> actually deletes errors in your dog's thinking.  It takes only a few moments
>
> of time to permanently cancel or delete a behavior.
>
> Correcting a behavior, rather than deleting it, takes the entire lifetime of
> your dog.  Make your choice, to solve behavioral problems permanently in a
> few moments, or get the dubious satisfaction of correcting your dog's
> behavioral problems each time they occur, for the entire life of your dog.
> When you get tired of correcting, whining, nagging, and arguing, start
> reading this manual again, follow the directions, and change your values.
> Change is difficult.
>
> So let's go back to the prior example using the "other room" command.  As
> you prepare to exit the room after having shown him the meaning of your
> request, create a sound just before your dog reaches the exit or doorway.
> As always, instantly praise him.  Continue to exit the room yourself, and if
> he continues to try to exit, create the sound behind him, and praise again.
>
> If he successfully exits the room against your command, simply repeat the
> original command "go in the other room good boy."  Of course, this will be
> treated as a new request, to be performed according to the progression of
> events as required.  In other words, you must pay attention to the last
> instance in which sound was used, and try to insure that in the next
> instance, the sound comes from the appropriate source.  In other words, if
> your dog went into the "other room" on his first request without sound,
> perhaps strictly as a coincidence, then, after you've tried to correct him
> from leaving, that instance would require the application of sound with your
> next request, which in actuality, would be his second request to "go in the
> other room good boy."
>
> To review:
>
> ? First request, "Go in the other room, good boy."
>
> ? Second request, "Go in the other ROOM good boy"
>
> Third request, "Go in the other room, good boy"
>
> Let's say he accomplished the request properly.  When he violates the
> command, your next request to send him back there would be, in actuality,
> his fourth request, requiring sound on this command.
>
> If you are not thoroughly confused at this point, I'm surprised.  Here's the
> rest of the secret:  The sequence of events never starts over again, but
> always continues from the last instance in which the sound was used.
>
> It is imperative to try to remember the last occasion in which your dog was
> given a command.  For example, let's say he's out in the back yard.  You
> call him to come in, and he fails to respond.  So you reach for the can, and
> repeat your request accompanied with one hard downward shake to create
> sound.  Naturally, your dog will respond on this occasion.
>
> Next time that he is out in the yard-even if it's the next day-and he fails
> to respond when you ask him to come in, you've got to try to remember when
> it was, that you last needed to re-enforce the command, using sound.  So you
> might stop for a moment to think, "Gee, wasn't it just last night, that I
> asked him to come inside, and failing that, needed to create the sound on my
> second request for him to come in?"  Did the sound come from my hand, or did
> the can need to be tossed beyond him?  Follow through thinking this out, and
> make the right decision.  If you can't remember the last instance, that's
> O.K.  Simply do your best, and set yourself an appointment to do the "Family
> Pack Leadership Exercise" when you plan to re-install the conditioned reflex
> to "come."  It'll take about ten minutes.
>
> 7A. Other Examples of Using Sound to Correct Undesirable Behavior
>
> As stated earlier, any sound, accompanied by praise, is sufficient.  For
> example: let's say your dog walks right over to you while you're eating
> dinner, and expects to help himself, without permission, to your food.
>
> If you were to snap your fingers in front of his face and say "good boy,
> nice dog, what a good dog you are," you'd feel pretty much like an idiot,
> until he opened his mouth to grab your food, at which point you'd reach
> around behind him and snap your fingers again, following through with lavish
> praise.  If your timing and tone of voice were correct, he would have
> stopped, but yet still be thinking of taking your food without permission.
>
> So we expect him to try again to get your food.  As he leans his big wet
> nose over your plate, and again you were to snap your fingers in front of
> his nose, and following the procedure, using lavish praise for this horrible
> mistake, you'll find him leaning back a little, thinking, thinking,
> thinking, thinking, and thinking (and find yourself praising, praising, and
> praising).
>
> Now, he's going to look at your food, then look up at you, then back at the
> food.  Inasmuch as it goes against everything you've ever been lead to
> believe, you must praise this thought, this learning plateau.  You can learn
> to overcome your natural instincts.  It's not easy being human.
>
> Now we fully expect him to try once again to get your food.  At the moment
> he begins to make his move, if you were to reach around behind him and snap
> your fingers and speak praises, this should be the last time you need
> address this behavior, possibly for the rest of your life, or until you
> change your location.
>
> Pick up your plate and move to another chair, and your loving pet will try
> again to steal your food.  Now, begin the procedure again, taking it to its
> fourth properly performed repetition.  Now, he'll probably never try to
> steal your food as long as you sit at either of the two positions at your
> table that he has been conditioned to.
>
> Taking this example to a third seat at the table, and then to a fourth seat
> at the table will permanently break this behavior.  That is, until someone
> else sits there with his or her food in front of him or her.
>
> The point is that we will need four people or plate settings at this table
> to permanently eradicate this behavior. O.K.?
>
> How about if we rearrange the dining room, and move the table to another
> location?  If you figure this to be a "new environment," you've begun to
> understand how your dog figures it to be.  Now, you know what to do, and how
> to do it.
>
> We had a student call one day, because although things were moving along
> well with her dog, the dog continued to jump up on the couch.  When asked
> how does she address the problem, she stated that she reaches over for one
> of the cans, gives it a shake and praises, and indeed, the dog gets off the
> couch, but gets back on again shortly thereafter.
>
> "How do you deal with that?"  I asked.
>
> "I reach for the cans, and give it another shake, and as always, she gets
> right off, but gets back on it again shortly thereafter."
>
> "Don't you remember that the sound must come from another direction?" I
> asked.
>
> "Oh yes, now I remember.  Creating the sound will not be effective without
> alternating the source or direction.  Sorry to bother you about that," she
> said.
>
> "Before you go, tell me, did you continue to do the "Family Pack Leadership
> Exercise" at three other locations, and finish reading the manual?"  I
> asked.
>
> 7B. Unacceptable Demonstrations of Dominance
>
> Your dog needs to control totally, or to be controlled totally.  In the big
> scheme of things, barring any unusual tendencies, outward appearances should
> look and feel like you are expressing proper control.
>
> Even in the best of situations, most of us try to get as much as we think we
> can get, or at least as much as we feel we deserve.  For the most part, your
> dog doesn't want to get your job, your possessions, or any thing else,
> except you.  All things being equal, you are the ultimate challenge.  You
> might be considered kind of like a doggy version of Mt. Everest.
>
> When climbing a mountain, one rule of thumb is to obtain a good purchase,
> before aiming for another handhold or foothold.  Just about every
> interaction with your dog might be considered a purchase on your summit. We
> don't want him to fall, but there's no room at the top.
>
> You might look at the intricacies of the relationship with your dog sort of
> being like a chess game.  Every interaction is a strategic assault that has
> to be analyzed, assessed, and at some point countered.
>
> Most canine interactions center on control issues.  These power plays go on
> all the time, and usually take place without us even being aware, that we
> are the pawn in a power play.  Although most of these ploys are harmless and
> laughable, they do add up and scores are kept.   You don't have to play
> well, but like it or not, you're in the game.   Being consistent means you
> get extra points.
>
> Let's look at an example of how we innocently participate, and the
> ramifications that occur as a result.
>
> Your dog jumps up on your couch.  You look over and tell him to get off.
> Being a good dog he jumps right off, and resumes his appropriate spot.
> Being a dog, he's going to try again.  So he does.  And, doing your best,
> you remind him that you had just asked him not to do that.  But, he ignores
> you, and you insist.  So he goes.
>
> But (being a dog) he tries again, and you (being human) have got other
> things to do.  Besides, he's just been groomed, and you're getting another
> couch soon, and you've decided to put this couch in a good spot so can have
> it, and you're tired, and it really doesn't matter.  So you ignore him.
>
> This One Instance Of Inconsistency Just Fractured His Entire Concept Of The
> Infrastructure Of Your Home And your and His Role In It.
>
> If you cannot make up your mind as to what is important, then he needs to
> make decisions so as to insure stability in his den.
>
> 7C. More Subtle Examples of Unacceptable Dominance
>
> How about every time your dog steps on your feet?  Don't you think your dog
> knows where each of his feet are, and where they belong?  Or, how about his
> tail?  Does he accidentally smack you as he goes by?  Maybe he clears your
> coffee table as he moves past?
>
> Certainly you can't expect your dog to understand that this long, unwieldy
> appendage can rearrange your knick-knacks or whatever.  "Maybe it's best to
> keep him out of those areas.  Besides, he's like a bull in a china shop."
>
> We don't need to put up with these sorts of  "unavoidable" impositions on
> our lives or property.  You may say, "But surely there's no way to correct
> such innocent impositions."
>
> If you believe that, then you've wasted your time reading this manual.
> Either start over again, or reexamine your thinking.  Let's look at how you
> might remedy these situations.  Remember, your dog is going to model your
> behavior and act in kind.  You set the standard for good behaviors by
> demonstration.
>
> 7D. How To Correct Mouthing
>
> Every puppy goes through a mouthing stage.  It's usually out grown by the
> end of teething.  That means he needs to chew something to cut new teeth.
> Provide appropriate items to be chewed.  Everything else is not to be
> touched.   Establish appropriate mouth behavior right from first contact.
> There's no excuse for being abused by your dogs teeth until he's finished
> teething.
>
> Some trainers teach "bite inhibition." That's almost the right idea. First,
> mouthing is a bonding activity, so we don't want to discourage it
> antagonistically. Appropriate mouthing activity is up to you to determine.
> Some of us don't like dog's mouths on us at all.  Other's don't mind and
> even enjoy it. I always play with my dog's mouths, and I don't mind gentle
> mouthing. Whatever you attitude, just realize that others are going to be
> mouthed or not in the same manner as you accept.
>
> There's no such thing as being too young to learn any behavior, within the
> physical limits of his body.  His brain is ready to be programmed to learn
> everything he will ever need to know by the age of 18 days old.  Training
> your dog is not much different than creating a filing system.
>
> Just as you address each page that appears on your screen, each behavior
> your dog performs should be dealt with before moving on to something else.
> Of course, if you are not prepared to cope with a behavior because of,
> perhaps time restrictions, make note of that behavior and set and appointed
> time to re create the situation and address it totally.
>
> The first instance your dog puts his mouth on you inappropriately is to be
> regarded as an issue.  Each time you permit any inappropriate behavior to
> continue without being addressed, you are setting the precedent for more of
> the same behavior.
>
> TECHNIQUE:
>
> Subtle.  Just be subtle.  Whenever you have a situation that needs immediate
> response, be very careful to not let your dog know you are either upset or
> going to correct him.
>
> Casual.  Just as casual as you would be as though you were explaining to
> your best friend how to find a tool in your garage.  If your friend couldn't
> find something, you'd just tell him where to look and expect him to try
> again.  And, if he returned empty handed, you'd probably suggest a better
> way to find the item.
>
> Matter of factly.  Just as matter of factly as you would if your friend were
> to return without the desired item once again.  You'd calmly and matter of
> factly get together and show him how to get it.  No big deal.
>
> When your dog first opens his mouth toward you, or any inappropriate matter,
> just create a sound and praise for five to fifteen seconds.  If he refrains
> from that behavior, continue to praise.  If he continues with the
> misbehavior, repeat the sound distraction from another direction followed by
> prolonged, non-physical praise.  If he continues, use the command "Out! good
> boy, nice dog..." as you gently remove his teeth from the object,
> immediately releasing his mouth and praising all at the same time.
>
> Once again, it is necessary to allow the behavior to resume.  As he thinks
> once again to open his mouth toward an inappropriate item, repeat the above
> procedure.  Understand that this process will require four properly
> performed repetitions.  Observe carefully for the momentary hesitation on
> his third attempt, and be careful to praise that moment and continue
> praising for up to fifteen seconds or until the mouthing stops or resumes.
>
> And, don't forget, once you've successfully inhibited the behavior on one
> such item, you have at least three more occasions for which this behavior
> must be addressed to permanently delete it from his repertoire of
> misbehavior.  Bear in mind, this technique will need to be repeated in four
> different places, and perhaps with four different items such as people, as
> well as any item into which he may choose to sink his little teeth.
>
> In other words, if he's chewing on your left hand, addressing this behavior
> for four consecutive occasions will prevent him chewing on only your left
> hand, and only in that one area.  To successfully break this behavior, allow
> the behavior to resume on the other hand.  Next, he'll probably look forward
> to chewing on your ankle, and then he'll try the other ankle.
>
> Sure, it sounds like a lot of work, and a young puppy may indeed forget a
> previous lesson, especially if he is in the process of cutting new teeth.
> Address each instance with patience and consistency.  Soon you'll see him
> think of the undesirable behavior, and look right at you expecting the
> praise for having restrained himself.
>
> Remember, any time you show annoyance, you are actually re-enforcing the
> undesirable behavior.
>
> At some point in your dog's early life, it was likely that his mom had the
> duty to correct him for something like chewing on her, or for taking her
> food.  Perhaps you'd think mom dogs would share all their food with their
> puppies.  That may be true most of the time, just as most mom dogs won't get
> thoroughly upset when their babies chew on her.  But at some point, mom
> needs to protect herself from her puppies; and furthermore, nature dictates
> appropriate rules of behavior that she is compelled to enforce.
>
> Mom dogs will bat at their pups sideways with their mouths, while making a
> guttural sound much like the word out.  Kind of like an umpire might be
> heard to say.  This, if your pup had ever been corrected by his mom, it will
> have a profound effect on him, much like Pavlov's bell.  In many instances
> this sound will stop a dog in is tracks.
>
> If you fail to praise immediately after creating this sound, you will not
> have the benefits of it.  Remember any sound created to address misbehavior
> must be accompanied with spontaneous, instant, constant, non-physical
> praise, until the thought process has finished, usually lasting between four
> to fifteen seconds.
>
> Let him think about the occurrence of this sound, and its relationship to
> his behavior.  Allow the behavior to once again begin to occur.
>
> As soon as you determine that he's thinking of opening his mouth again,
> simply create another sound from a different source of origin, and resume
> praise.
>
> Once again, allow the behavior to begin to start, and before he can complete
> the act, create another sound followed with praise.
>
> This time, your dog should understand the reasoning behind the sounds. He's
> going to think about the behavior, and pause while he's thinking about the
> prior instances of this.  You must praise this time period that he is
> processing this information.  It's critical that you observe him each time
> after you have created a sound to interrupt a behavior, to recognize this
> hesitation period during which he is momentarily refraining from engaging in
> this behavior.
>
> Because this problem of mouthing is so common and difficult, and serious,
> here is an artificial aid that can be used to insure success.  Please use
> all of the recommended suggestions first, at least to be fair that your dog
> has had the opportunity to learn through appropriate methods.
>
> Dr. Sloan created a liniment that bears his picture on the label.  This is
> guaranteed to inhibit mouthing or chewing on such items as electric cords,
> leads, anything.  Be sure to avoid contact with eyes, even long after this
> preparation has been handled.  You'll find it on the shelf in any Rexall
> store, or ask your pharmacist to order it.  "Sloan's liniment."  A little
> goes a long way, so get the small size, and be prepared to put up with the
> not unpleasant but pervasive aroma for a few days.
>
> 7E. No Dogs on Beds! And Other Problems
>
> Some trainers will tell you that if you want your dog to see you as a
> superior, never allow him to share your bed.  They warn that, if unchecked,
> the domestic puppy dog will get an inflated idea of his own importance if he
> is allowed to sleep with you in your bed.  Here at Wits' End Dog training,
> though, things are different.  Training is never an issue of
> dominance/submission, merely non-force methods of behavior modification and
> conditioning.
>
> If you don't want your dog to use your bed, or to come up on your bed only
> when invited, you can use a combination of sound distraction/praise and
> reflex command installation to achieve the goal you desire.
>
> For the purpose of this exercise, let's assume that you want your dog to
> come up on the bed only when he is invited.
>
> Scenario:  your dog jumps on the bed without permission.  You should look
> for the most appropriate "correction" based on the dog's thinking.  Let's
> examine how the dog sees this picture, and then we'll be able to understand
> better how the Wits' End Dog Training method works.
>
> So. your dog is cruising through the house, he sees the bed and says, "Hey,
> Mom/Dad isn't using the bed.  Maybe I'll jump up and wait for them." That's
> not inappropriate; so when you see him just say, "Get off the bed good boy"
> and if necessary repeat with the sound cue on the key word "bed."  Failing
> that, a come command would be appropriate.
>
> (This scenario demonstrates why it is necessary to install a proper "recall"
> or "come" command, as described earlier in the manual.)
>
> Let's now assume that your dog has obeyed your "come" command, but then
> tries another leap on the bed.  This time, use sound distraction with
> praise.  If he gets his feet on the bed and refuses to come off after the
> third time of sound distraction and praise, ask for the "come" command. Use
> the "come" command as a default for any unfulfilled command, but only after
> giving all other options first.  This will become more evident as we get
> into the heeling pattern exercises.
>
> If you are already on the bed and your dog jumps up without permission, use
> sound distraction and praise (3 times), and then if this is not obeyed, give
> the command "get off the bed good boy" and follow through.  If necessary,
> you would get off the bed, call him to come and sit in front of you, return
> to heel, and release him and get back into bed and wait until he attempts
> again.  (You can learn more about the "return to heel" exercise in Part II
> of the W.E.D.T.M. Manual.)
>
> Lastly, if you detect that your dog has been on the bed when you weren't
> present, drop a sound can on the bed casually in his presence while not on
> the bed, and be silent.  Follow the technique as in any other "after the
> fact" behavior.
>  8. HOUSETRAINING: THE BASICS
>
> The more you try to "housebreak" your dog, the more anxiety he'll associate
> with it, and you will never get it done. Here are directions that will
> quickly get you in good shape with your dog, but you must follow the
> directions exactly.
>
> Some dogs like to exercise and run around for a few minutes before they
> relieve themselves.  If that's what your dog likes, and if that's what you
> want, by all means do that first.  Part of the solution is to teach the dog
> to relieve himself on command, so that the dog knows the purpose of his trip
> outside, and that he's got two minutes to relieve himself.
>
> That can be done in a couple of days, with a determined effort to supervise
> and walk the dog when appropriate breaks are necessary, or when the dog
> shows signs that he needs to go out. Two minutes of standing in one
> appropriate break area, without walking or talking (which would will only
> distract the dog).
>
> The request to "take a break" should be asked, and if the dog sniffs the
> ground he should be praised.  If he looks around at the birds or other
> distractions, a second request to "take a break" should be given.  If he
> sniffs the ground he should be told he's a good boy.  If not, he should
> elapse the two minutes without walking around, and return inside on command,
> if you're working on obedience.  Two minutes, and that's it.  No more than
> two requests to relieve himself, and no unnecessary walking.
>
> Don't fixate on the lack of results. We're talking about learning and
> conditioning a habit, not just the mechanics of the alimentary canal and
> bladder.
>
> If the dog did not relieve himself, constant surreptitious (subtle,
> unnoticed) supervision will be necessary until the dog again shows signs of
> needing to relieve himself. When this happens-it may only be five minutes
> after having just been out-he should be offered another break, and the same
> procedure should follow.
>
> You've got to wait until the puppy "asks" or shows signs of discomfort,
> indicating he needs to relieve himself, or you won't be teaching him to be
> able to contain himself.  That's why many so-called "trainers" can't quickly
> house train their dogs, as they never train them to be able to "hold it,"
> because they're worried about the dog making a mistake.
>
> He should be handled on a six-foot lead, to prevent him from wandering
> around and getting distracted from his task. Conclude the break with a "back
> to work" command and have the dog return to heel and sit, before continuing.
> This is critical for more advanced trained dogs, as you'll understand if you
> read Part Two of this manual.
>
> If the dog fails to return to heel and sit, this means that he still has to
> relieve himself.    You can then ask him if he needs to relieve himself
> again, instead of the default for breaking a command ("come"), he's going to
> know that he's between a rock and a hard place. He's going to have to make a
> decision. That's the fundamental principle of the Wits' End Dog Training
> Method. It's a very powerful technique.
>
> You may not have just a housebreaking problem, but also a behavior problem.
> Every time you react to your dog's housebreaking mistake, you are
> reinforcing it as a negative attention-getting device.  That's why screaming
> NO or scolding or doing anything to call your attention to a behavior
> teaches the dog he can pull your chain.
>
> Any misbehavior is being reinforced when you confront the dog about the
> behavior.  This becomes a vicious cycle, as the punishment or scolding only
> creates more stress and anxiety, which may cause other behavior problems as
> a replacement, even though confronting the dog may seem to work.
>
> Keeping the lead on your dog while you go about the house is often
> recommended, and might occasionally work. However, you can't just tie a dog
> on your belt and expect him to act like a key chain.  The only time the dog
> should be on lead with you is when the dog is properly on command.
> Otherwise, the restriction will cause stress and further promote other
> behavior problems.
>
> How can you deal with the dog tied to you if you haven't learned proper lead
> handling techniques? The pup isn't a sack of sand that can be dragged around
> and dropped anywhere you put it. Any pulling on the dog's collar will cause
> out of control behavior.
>
> Now, when accidents happen, how do you deal with this?  Again, using the
> penny can, address this as you would any other "after the fact" incident,
> detailed in the chapter "Using Sound to Break Undesirable Behavior."
>  9. ROLL-OVER ON THE ALPHA ROLLOVER
>
> When your dog presents you with inappropriate displays of dominant behavior,
> many behaviorists, trainers, and veterinarians will recommend the Alpha
> Rollover as a remedy.
>
> WRONG!  The Alpha Rollover as it is performed is a forceful, negative,
> punishing experience, administered by dogs and wolves, to dogs and wolves.
> Mimicked by humans, we are poorly equipped to fulfill the life and death
> reality expressed in nature, and this sets both man and beast up for another
> fall from grace.
>
> Who in their right mind is going to attempt to mimic the behavior of two
> dogs challenging each other aggressively for dominance in the pack
> hierarchy?  And, if our human stooge does get the upper hand, what shall he
> do with the loser?  Perhaps sink his teeth into the loser's throat, glaring
> and growling "No!"  Perhaps he will remain in this posture until his poor,
> frightened little dog, belly up, flanks exposed, urinating all over, gets
> big enough to turn the tables?
>
> I've never seen this technique successfully done on a mature Great Dane or
> St. Bernard, although I have often seen the results in mature dogs that had
> this practice performed on them when they were little.  They are the sorts
> that have problems only with the alpha in his life.  Others are not
> considered a challenge worth confronting.  Of course, you as a human, would
> be told to grab the sides of your dogs throat with both hands, force him
> onto his back, stare into his face, and growl "No!" until he goes limp into
> submission.
>
> While this is definitely a display of your dominance over him and in a
> language he can understand, it is perceived as a challenge, which makes this
> a very dangerous move that frequently backfires, inviting a sneak attack in
> retaliation at some point when the dog feels he has the upper hand.  In
> nature, this challenge might go on every season, until the alpha is no
> longer able to continue this winning streak.  Then, the former alpha goes
> off alone, or to the rear of the pack if he's lucky.
>
> Alpha Rollover
>
> From watching mother dogs with their puppies, we have learned the correct
> way to use a different version of the Alpha Rollover as a way to cement the
> appropriate dominant/ submissive relationship between you and your dog.  A
> mom dog, when allowed to raise her pups for several months, not just six
> weeks, will be seen standing over a resting puppy and chewing on the side of
> its neck, up behind the ears with her front teeth (as though flea-biting).
>
> Pups enjoy the affectionate encounter, and usually go belly up, relaxed and
> happy.  She is saying, "I'm your elder, and because you respect my
> authority, I make you feel good."  We humans can use the same technique and
> get the same results.
>
> Approach your dog when he is stretched out on his side, relaxed and content.
> Do not force him into this position, and don't startle him if he's asleep.
> Stand over him, bend down, and scratch him behind the ear.  If he rolls over
> offering you his belly, that's all you need to do.  Tell him he's a good
> boy, and walk off before he gets up.  Mission accomplished!  No force, no
> punishment, no negativity.  Remember, your dog is going to model your
> behavior and act in kind.  You set the standard for good behaviors by
> demonstration.
>
>  10. Separation Anxiety Surrogate Toy Technique
> (Howling, Barking, Whining, Chewing, Messing Stuff Up When You Go Out!)
>
> If all of our techniques and advice have been followed correctly, there is
> no obvious reason your dog should undergo stress just because he's home
> alone.
>
> Although most dogs (and people) prefer not to be alone, there's never any
> excuse why your dog should ever do anything other than what you desire,
> being his pack leader.  If he gets nervous just because you are away, that
> implies something is amiss.  The techniques articulated in the obedience
> section under "four step heeling pattern exercise" will instill in him a
> sense of self-confidence that will override his boogey man.
>
> But we have another secret to share!  Try this before laughing.  Like your
> dog, we don't like to the laughed at!  Say "good bye" to an article of his,
> maybe a toy or a bone.  Do this last after saying goodbye to him.  Make a
> big fuss over this article, explaining that you've got to go, and that you
> expect "it" to behave while your gone.  Put it down, without looking at your
> dog, and go.
>
> Upon your return, search for and find this article prior to speaking to or
> in a manner addressing your dog, even if he is jumping up and down to say
> hello.  Just ignore him until this procedure is finished.  Pick "it" up and
> exuberantly explain how you've missed "its" company while you've been
> absent, and how pleased you are that "it" has been so good while you've been
> away.
>
> Then you may look at and address your dog, regardless of any damage or
> destruction he's imposed, and tell him he's been good too, and that you've
> missed him.  Ignore any damage he might have caused in your absence.
>
> This is effective, and will probably "blow his mind."  The next time you
> need to go out, he's going to try to emulate the behavior of this inanimate
> object.
>
> Now you understand this procedure must be done for four consecutive
> occasions.  Do this on a couple of brief absences, and you'll see the
> problem disappear.
>
> Of course, we do have a technique using sound to correct any misbehavior
> that might occur in your absence.  Upon your return, disregard any damage.
> Leave your attitude outside.  Don't gasp, sigh, swear, or show any negative
> emotion.  Say hello, as you should ordinarily, and before touching any
> damaged or soiled area, search for one of those cans.  Picking it up very
> carefully so as to not create any sound, walk past the "bad spot" and
> casually point toward it and ask "What's that?" as you drop the can next to
> it, as you continue to go about your business not relative to this incident.
> Put your dog out of sight while you clean or repair any damage.
>
> When you're done cleaning and you've invited him back in, he's going to look
> at that area and look up at you.  Your going to tell him what a good dog he
> is, even though he wasn't.  This will "blow his mind."  He's going to
> wonder, "What can I do to get your attention?"
>
> The Soggy Potato Chip Theory
>
> Here's something that's probably been funded by our federal government, for
> probably zillions of dollars in grant money, to some big shots at one of our
> more prestigious universities.
>
> This psychological study explores the idea that given two bowls of potato
> chips at a party, one bowl being nice and fresh, the other being old and
> soggy, that people invited to this party will refrain from eating the soggy
> chips, until all of the fresh ones have been eaten.
>
> With more time, and the absence of any more fresh chips, the soggy ones will
>
> be eaten just the same!  The experiment boils down to the hypothesis that
> "lacking positive attention, we will substitute less desired behavior to
> fill the void."  Go figure.
>
> Nonetheless, it's true.  Lacking positive attention, your pet will do
> something negative in order to get the amount of attention he requires.
>
> Your job is to insure that you give proper attention, therefore avoiding the
> negative attention-getting devices that your pet may employ against you.
> Don't let your attitude or your temper be seen, as this will be determined
> by your pet to be the most effective way in which to get all of the
> attention he wants.
>
> Most of the difficulties we have with our pets are as a result of our own
> resistance to doing what we now know is correct.  Any time your dog can get
> you to stop in your tracks, and command 100% of your undivided negative
> attention, you have just inadvertently taught him how to manipulate you.
> Don't be a Victim!
>
> Each time your dog looks at you, even fleetingly, requires a positive verbal
>
> response, to appease his need for emotional contact with you.
>
>  11. THE WITS' END DOG TRAINING METHOD
>
> ESCHEW OBFUSCATION: That's what we're trying to do, to avoid complicating
> matters, to clarify the terminology, without confusing psychobabble.  But if
> you would like a little bit of psycho type talk, the following should do it
> for you.  There is plenty of good information in this list, but there is no
> need to worry about the language in the etiology of behavior, any more than
> what is already in the text above.
>
> ETIOLOGY:  The study of causative factors creating symptoms. DOGS DON'T DO
> THINGS WITHOUT REASONS.  Those reasons may not be obvious to you, but if you
> looked at life from a dog's point of view, it would be evident.  We'll do
> that later.  But first, when your dog is disruptive, what gets all your
> attention is its behavior.  Don't worry about the misbehavior; find the
> cause.  As we solve one problem, another will surface in its place.  As we
> become focused on the misbehaviors, our attention further compounds the
> problem.  In fact, any attention or reaction to misbehavior can vicariously
> reward the dog.
>
> EXAMPLE;     "My dog barks every time I'm on the phone." This always starts
> a cycle of disruption.  Any time your dog can break your routine, and
> command 100% OF YOUR UNDIVIDED ATTENTION, HE WINS.
>
> SOLUTION:    DON'T FALL VICTIM to these negative attention-getting devices.
> Don't engage in a shouting match.  Break the cycle subtly, with distraction
> techniques as interruptions, and, as always, follow up with immediate,
> non-physical praise.  The most common cause of problems is the need for
> DIRECTED ATTENTION.  Unstructured love and attention alone won't suffice.
> Just exercising your dog cannot structure his thinking to make him calm and
> accepting of changes in your family life.
>
> ALLELOMIMETIC BEHAVIOR:  This comes from the word "mimic."  Your dog will
> copy your ACTIONS and ATTITUDES.  Monkey see, monkey do.  Monkey takes right
> after you!  That's right.  Use this to your advantage.  If you handle
> roughly, he'll respond likewise.  The more concerned or nervous we are about
> our dogs behavior, the more we MAY ACTUALLY COMPELL SUCH BEHAVIOR TO BEGIN!
>
> EXAMPLE:    If your dog is about to growl at a stranger and he sees you
> become upset, he doesn't think we are worried about his actions, but those
> of the stranger.  Now he has a real cause to be wary.
>
> SOLUTION:    Use allelomimetic behavior to demonstrate a sense of calm and
> trust.  Don't take chances, but the more relaxed you must appear.  Many
> times we see people try to calm their pet by patting.  As they become more
> nervous, they pat faster and faster.  This quick patting further excites
> their pet.  Try to stroke the full length of the body at about the normal
> rate of respiration.
>
> POSITIVE THIGMOTAXIS:  The opposition reflex.  This is the MOST DIFFICULT
> CAUSE OF BEHAVIOR PROBLEMS, because we AUTOMATICALLY FALL VICTIM TO IT.
>
> EXAMPLE: As your dog pulls, you pull back. Now you are both pulling. Next,
> you get frustrated and mad. Then ALLELOMIMETIC BEHAVIOR COMES INTO THE
> PICTURE, and your dog copies your actions and attitudes and gets frustrated
> and mad.  What may have begun as a nice walk could soon become a tense,
> frustrating situation.  This anxiety, without a vent or release mechanism,
> continues long afterward.
>
> SOLUTION:  Don't allow pulling.  When your dog pulls, just say "no," relieve
> the tension on the leash and praise immediately.  Do this consistently. We
> have just a split second to praise him after telling him "no," or else the
> message will not get across.  Pulling on the leash, even as little as one
> pound of pressure per square inch, for just a second and a half is enough to
> trigger the opposition reflex.
>
> That's just one small example.  Here's the real story on POSITIVE
> THIGMOTAXIS, the OPPOSITION REFLEX.  ANY PULLING OR EVEN SLIGHT TENSION on
> your dog's collar, or PUSHING OR PULLING ON HIS BODY can SHUT OFF his
> ability to think and or listen to you, even while praising him.  Like when
> you might ask him to sit, and then reach back to place him, he may just stop
> going into position.  Look at it like this: Your dog's first obligation is
> to oppose you.  It's built in.  Once he understands the object of your
> desire, forget it!   He is naturally obligated to do EXACTLY OPPOSITE....
>
> Physical opposition, say as you reach for his collar while greeting a guest
> at the door, will cause exactly the behavior you wanted to avoid.  Next, as
> he becomes familiar with your hand coming out to restrain him, he
> consciously goes faster to avoid being restrained.
>
> Physical opposition, as you try to prevent jumping or bolting, or even vocal
> opposition as you shout to prevent whining or barking or fighting, can
> trigger the opposition reflex, compelling the undesirable behavior to begin.
> In just moments your dog can learn to out-maneuver you.  This physical
> opposition soon becomes a mental opposition.  Learn to control without
> restraint or confronting.
>
> Forced restraint or forced control will always defeat its own purpose. It's
> like trying to grab a handful of water... Try to grab a fistful of water,
> and all you will get is a wet hand. Scoop gently, and you could empty the
> whole basin.
>
> Vocal opposition, or shouting, needs further mention.  We see this quite
> often, especially when people try to prevent fighting or aggression.  The
> first thing they usually do is express panic by screaming.  Just think of
> how your dog might copy this.
>
> HOW CAN WE BREAK POSITIVE THIGMOTAXIS?
> Four properly timed interruptions!  WITH PRAISE!
>
> VISUAL-ORAL REFLEX:  Just as with "Wiley Coyote," compelled to catch the
> Road Runner, he cannot stop to think.  He sees the Road Runner, cuts the
> string to the anvil, and instead of waiting, he is compelled to catch him.
> The consequences of this move are not thought out.  Strictly reflex.
>
> Let's look at this again.  Your dog sees a fly overhead, and just snaps him
> out of the air.  This action is not thought out. It goes from the eye right
> through the right side of his brain, to catching it in the air.  That's
> VISUAL-ORAL REFLEX.  What if it were a hornet?  Same thing, but with
> different consequences... He'd find out too late.  How about when you see a
> fly?  Most likely you see it and think: You want to grab the fly swatter,
> make sure the fly isn't on the expensive drapes, and simply send it on to a
> higher level of existence.  The thought process is done with the left side
> of the brain.  That's why you may miss. You have to think to aim.  No
> reflex.
>
> HOW CAN WE BREAK THE VISUAL-ORAL REFLEX?
> Four properly timed interruptions!  WITH PRAISE!
>
> SOMATIC MEMORY:  Unconscious, automatic, involuntary, natural reflex-just as
> a spring or curl regains its shape.  Most often, your dog does not think
> about his actions, just like "Wiley Coyote," he doesn't stop to think out
> the consequences of his actions.  Strictly reflex.  He sees a door, he's
> gone.  He sees you, he jumps.  He sees a cat, he's gone.  If so much K-9
> behavior were reflexive, wouldn't it be fair to believe that he does not
> understand that his behavior is wrong?  How could you correct him if he
> doesn't even think he'd done anything wrong?
>
> HOW CAN WE BREAK SOMATIC MEMORY?
> Four properly timed interruptions!  WITH PRAISE!
>
> SURVIVAL INSTINCT:  The oral desire.  Your dog is programmed to do what it
> must to insure the survival of itself and its species.  That's one powerful
> tool that is often overlooked as a training aid. Most trainers utilize this
> with food bribes.  To get results at any price is their motivation.  Other
> aspects of survival instinct can be more successfully employed.  At some
> point bribery will cause trouble, as with each treat, survival instinct
> comes into play.  Soon your dog's appreciation level of you is lowered from
> a mind appreciation to the gut level.  When your dog would rather go to his
> food than you, look out!
>
> Pack mentality is one manifestation of survival instinct. Your dog looks
> upon his family as his "pack."  We can manipulate this instinct, or be
> victimized by it.  "Checking back," which is a familiar term with hunters,
> is a sideways glance to keep from straying too far from the hunter, or in
> our case, the pack or family.  Praise when you see your dog "checking back,"
> and he will move in closer.  If he forges on ahead, turn and he will "check
> back" on you.  If you keep moving away he will turn to follow.  Praise him
> and he will continue.  Just don't get caught checking back on him, or he
> will expect you to follow.  This principle will be used effectively in our
> program later.
>
> Symptoms of behavior, good as well as bad, may be attributed to survival
> instinct.  These symptoms may be manifested outwardly or inwardly.  Over
> protectiveness or cowering could be examples of very closely related but
> opposite ways of dealing with circumstances of the environment.  They are
> often inter-changeable within the same individual.  Other symptoms of a
> self-concerned rigid nature could be compulsive scratching, paw licking side
> or leg sucking, hiding, balking, withdrawal, cowering, and submissive
> urination.
>
> EXAMPLE:  Fear biters can be made to be aggressive biters.  "My dog
> bites/shies out of fear when strangers try to pat him."
>
> SOLUTION:  WARNING!!!  Don't try this without our professional guidance!!!
> (This graphic solution is just one of several possibilities.)  Teach the dog
> to bite on command, thus building confidence, overcoming shyness or fear.
>
> HOW CAN WE BREAK ANY OF THESE BEHAVIORS?
> Four properly timed interruptions!  WITH PRAISE!
>
> CHAINED DOG SYNDROME/BARRIER FRUSTRATION: Often for convenience, but
> frequently because of lack of proper control, we must tie or otherwise
> restrict our pets.  The barrier or chain that is used causes a natural
> frustration, because everything is out of reach.  This can cause stress,
> which can result in serious behavior problems, even extreme viciousness.
>
> This condition needs further mention. It is natural for most dogs to become
> very protective or territorial about the area of their confinement or tie
> out.  Never allow strangers to greet or pat a dog while tied out or confined
> in a run or crate.
>
> How can we restrain a dog on a chain or behind a barrier without risking
> difficulty?  Either remove the source of stimulation, such as keeping him
> out of sight and/or hearing of children, guests, etc., or work to break the
> cycle of over-stimulation.
>
> EXAMPLE:  "I crate my puppy during the day when I'm at work.  He seems fine,
> but gets really upset when we're home and have to put him inside."
>
> SOLUTION:  Use the distraction techniques contained herein to break the
> barrier frustration syndrome.
>
> HOW CAN WE BREAK THE CYCLE OF OVER-STIMULATION?
> Four properly timed interruptions!  WITH PRAISE!
>
>
> MALINGER/SUBTERFUGE:  To pretend injury or illness in order to avoid
> responsibility or work; a scam or ploy fostered in order to avoid doing
> something.  Dogs are great, even witty when it comes to thinking up ways to
> avoid or get out of doing what you want.
>
> EXAMPLE:  "Every time I try to train my dog, he becomes 'lame,' like the old
> 'war injury.'"
>
> SOLUTION: Make sure there is nothing wrong, start to train, and when that
> old affliction appears, say "You poor baby, I hate to see you so lame. Let'
> s quit this work stuff and we'll take a ride and buy you an ice cream." As
> soon as "old sooner" jumps for joy and heads for the car, you've caught him
> "FLAGRANTE DELICTO."  Point it right out to him and really rub it in. Dogs
> don't like to be made fun of... the embarrassment might cause a good laugh!
>
> SEPARATION ANXIETY:  When you leave, your dog may become worried that you
> may not return.  Or, because while you-are-gone, a visitor or disturbance of
> some sort may have come by--- causing a tense disruption.
>
> EXAMPLE:  "Every time I go out, my dog barks/whines, chews things, soils the
> house, etc.  He's vindictive.  He does it on purpose!  I can't leave him
> alone!  I can tell he knows he's done wrong just by the look on his face!"
>
> SOLUTION: There could be several factors involved. If a dog is
> indiscriminately relieving himself in the house while you are gone, it could
> be caused by stress if you have been in the habit of scolding him for any
> mischief he had done in the past.  That could make him nervous enough that
> he needs to relieve himself every time you go out.  Or, it might be the
> result of barrier frustration, or just a negative attention getting device
> satisfied by your response upon return. Don't fall victim to these tactics.
>  Don't scold or make an issue out of these problems.
>
> To cure separation anxiety, refer to the distraction technique in the
> section, "Using Sound to Correct Undesirable Behavior."
>
> BARKING/BITING/CHEWING:  The command "OUT" is used to stop any behavior with
> the mouth.  As we have discussed, the word "OUT" might ring "Pavlov's bell"
> if he was ever to have been corrected while with his mom and littermates.
> When you use it to stop any misbehavior, especially something with the
> mouth, like chewing, aggressiveness or barking, it may get an instantaneous
> response.
>
> One problem we often see is the dog's natural desire to protect his home and
> family being thwarted by his owners desire to raise him in a friendly
> atmosphere.  If, at the onset of each alarm the dog sounds, he is
> reprimanded for barking or showing aggression, then he may become overly
> anxious due to never having been validated for what he thinks is his
> obligation to protect the home.
>
> EXAMPLE:  "My dog barks at every sound he hears on the street, or when
> company comes.  He's totally out of control. He won't shut up."
>
> SOULUTION: As soon as he starts to bark, praise him. This will validate him
> for doing a good job; one that he thinks is expected of him.  Ask him "what'
> s that?" and go look. Next, tell him "Out, it's O.K., friends."  Upon
> commencement of his next bark, use the sound distraction technique.  If that
> fails, ask him to come.  This should work very quickly to bring him under
> control.
>
> CHEWING/RAIDING TRASH CANS/STEALING FOOD: These are in the same category as
> "BARKING/BITING/CHEWING" because they involve the mouth and may occur in
> your presence or behind your back.  The solution lies in breaking the
> misbehavior rather than avoiding the problem by means of hiding food out of
> reach or moving the trash can. Don't reinforce the problem by becoming
> involved with it.  If it occurs in your presence, address it, as you will
> any other behavior problem by utilizing the sound distraction techniques.
> Set aside some time to recreate and solve the problem.
>
>  If this occurs when you are not there, here is what should happen:
>
> EXAMPLE:  You come home and the dog has chewed the woodwork, bedspread,
> shoes, trashcan, etc.
>
> SOLUTION: Use the technique for curing separation anxiety to prevent this
> from happening.  When it happens, use the sound correction for dealing with
> problems after the fact, like this.  Don't become part of the problem by
> making a big scene out of it.  The damage is already done.  Simply go over
> and subtly pick up a can, and casually walk over to the damaged area, calmly
> ask, "What's that?" as you drop the can and casually walk away, without
> speaking.  Clean up the damage when he is not in sight.  The can sounding
> without praise will emphatically tell him he shouldn't have done that, and
> you won't be creating further problems by becoming involved.  Often, just
> one correction like this is enough to solve the problem.
> I
> BALKING/SHYING/OBSTACLES: Anyone would balk or become nervous when faced
> with an unusual or frightening obstacle.  One of the biggest problems we
> have when the dog on leash balks or shies away from something is that we,
> through our body language or behavior reinforce the dogs fear about the
> situation.  If you negotiate an obstacle calmly and smoothly, the dog will
> most likely follow your lead and continue through it with little difficulty.
> Using proper handling techniques with the lead, and the subtle use of
> allellomimetic behavior, even long ingrained phobias can be overcome in just
> minutes.  The bonding and sense of security that can come with being
> properly on command can reassure and give confidence to even the most
> insecure animal.
>
> EXAMPLE:  "My dog is afraid to get into the car, elevator, boat ramp, etc."
>
> SOLUTION:  This is very common, and a major problem if it is your dog that
> won't go into the car or otherwise.  Usually the problem starts when he
> first balks, by the handler pulling on the leash and trying to force him
> inside.  REMEMBER. Any pushing or pulling on the dog's collar will trigger
> positive thigmotaxis, the opposition reflex, thus compelling exactly the
> behavior you wanted to avoid.  Handle the lead properly and ask him to go
> inside.  Face the direction you want him to go, and move forward.  Praise
> immediately.  If he balks, repeat the command with sound and praise again.
> Usually it requires no wore than two repetitions.
>
> SIBLING RIVALRY:  SIBLING RIVALRY???  YES.  When you have more than one pet,
> or when you have children, this can be a big problem.  If you scold one
> sibling (children included) in front of the other(s), a natural resentment
> or jealousy is instigated.  This is common with any peer group, adults as
> well, office workers, etc.  The others take this as an opportunity to follow
> your lead and use their authority to further humiliate or even attack the
> "trouble maker." Given that scolding is a poor example of proper discipline,
> it need not be mentioned at this point.
>
> EXAMPLE:  "My dogs fight if they have a bone, (or food, or a pat, etc.)."
>
> SOLUTION:  Set the example of proper leadership and don't engage in verbal
> arguments, as our attitude will only be copied. And don't show physical
> attention to jealous dogs in front of each other.  Use all of these training
> techniques as a guide.  When you see an argument beginning, resort to
> praise.  Praise? Yes. This will always be your first response to diffuse and
> solve a problem. As always, avoid physical praise, as it will in this case
> create worse jealousy.  If proper discipline and leadership are expressed,
> the dogs do not have an option to fight among themselves.
>
> COMMUNICATION:  Dogs can communicate in a variety of interesting ways. They
> often have a pretty good sense of humor, and are often caught in lies and
> deception.  Dogs need not be as obvious as to bark to make known their
> wishes.  Sometimes, growling may only be an effort at vocalization, with no
> malice intended.  Subtle attempts, like maybe a shuffle of feet, a wrinkle
> on the face or brow, panting or chatter of teeth, in the dog's mind, are
> clear-cut messages.  Take notice and he will do the rest.  He will be
> consistent, although the same signals/signs/gestures may apply to several
> needs.
>
> EXAMPLE:  Your dog chatters his teeth.  Look at him and say, "Good boy, what
> do you want?"  He may say, "It's about time you noticed me!"
>
> SOLUTION:  Ignore his sarcasm.  Ask if he wants to do this, that, or the
> other thing, and when he gives a big sigh, DO IT!
>
> I've quoted other dog trainers and authors on dog behavior in the
> misstatement that "dogs don't think."  In light of the fact that I've also
> have quoted and subverted most of their training techniques as nonsensical
> and ineffective, let's not get boggled down in semantics.  My philosophy is
> based on experience and observation:
>
> The abilities to think, rationalize and solve problems are learned
> qualities.  By challenging our dogs to think, they develop the areas of the
> brain where thinking, rationalizing and solving problems occur.
>
>
> DOMINANCE:  Your dog needs dominance, MENTALLY, NOT PHYSICALLY. Lacking
> proper direction, your dog must become dominant.  It is survival.  In the
> human family, as he expresses dominance, he realizes something is
> drastically wrong.  This causes insecurity and frustration, so any change in
> the household becomes intolerable.
>
> Dogs have many different ways of expressing dominance, in subtle yet
> physical ways.  Their objective may not be really to take over, but be aware
> that the casual standing on your foot may actually be one of their sly
> attempts at self-expression.   Forewarned is forearmed.  These attempts may
> be as subtle as nudging or covering you with a paw or chin, to actually
> mounting.  In a mature dog, this could lead to more aggressive behavior.
>
> When your dog comes over with a ball in his mouth, and drops it at your
> feet, and you stop to pick it up, he just established control.  Don't fall
> into his subtle trap.  Tell him he has to wait.  Then, after a couple of
> minutes, when you pick it up, ask him if he wants to play ball.  He's going
> to think,  "How did you know I wanted to do that?"  Then, it will be you
> initiating the lead, setting the role for him to follow.
>
> THIS CONCLUDES PART ONE OF THE W.E.D.T.M. MANUAL
>
>
>  PART II
>
> 1. OBEDIENCE
>
> In this section, we are going to detail obedience training.  We'll approach
> our obedience training program as a piecemeal quilt; that is to say, that
> any one point has got to fit within the entire context, and as you develop
> skills, you may "mix and match" commands to suit your needs or situation at
> that moment.  But we do have a procedure that is very much like the kind of
> steps you would follow as though you were starting your car or computer
> system.  These steps are like your keys to your car or password to your
> files.  It's unlikely that your dog, when trained, will listen to anyone
> that does not approach the "control panel" to his mind, without the "keys"
> imbedded in this series of commands.  He'll understand that anyone asking
> business of him is not approved, without "them keys."
>
> Practice on a daily basis should not exceed four minutes to accomplish the
> exercises.  Practice needs to be performed at least every second day. With
> problem dogs, this is critical.
>
> If you are using this training to suffice your dog's emotional needs,
> whether it be anxiety from separation, aggression, or stress from any
> source, the benefits of this exercise will wear off in three days, at least
> until some time down the road.  Also, dogs do tend to forget a lesson if it
> has not been re-enforced for several days.  After the initial training
> period, practice may be limited to once a week.  When your dog becomes fully
> trained and his behavior is not an issue or goal for improvement, a brief
> exercise should be formally done once a week, later once a month.
>
> We are going to give your pet 100% of your undivided positive attention, in
> an intense, four-minute exercise, which will have the benefit of exercising
> the dominant and submissive nature of your dog's personality.
>
> These "natures of your dog's personality" are easily accessed through the
> positions and postures in relationship to yourself, as you and your dog
> perform your obedience routines.  Each position will elicit particular sorts
> of body language from your dog (and vice versa, so act natural).
>
> If you pay close attention, you can determine how well or not your dog is
> relating to you.  Each exercise or command in the following text will
> articulate what must be paid close attention, and how to make this knowledge
> work for you and your dog.
>
> We have special routines to break stress and tension, as well as methods to
> express dominance and elicit strict, exacting discipline.  You will develop
> a feel for these as you progress through this system.  Any time you are in
> doubt about what your next move should be, just relax, take your time to
> review in your mind the exercise you are performing, and then execute the
> correct move.  Everything has a particular progression.
>
> Admittedly, this is a complicated system.  However, there is no need to
> worry about mastering the technique and psychology involved right away. It
> will become very clear as you begin to work on it.  Just as we will expect
> your dog to learn something new with practice, you too will develop a sense
> for what we are doing, but only with practice.  You'll develop a feel for
> what we're doing. The pieces fit together like a jigsaw puzzle, and, like a
> jigsaw puzzle, you start by dumping the whole thing out in front of you and
> then try to put it in some sort of order.  Think of our method like that
> puzzle.  Keep in mind also that things change here, according to what has
> been mastered.
>
>  2. ASK YOUR DOG TO WORK
>
> We'll start with a preliminary command to set the tone for our lesson. Ask
> your dog if he would like to go to work.  Do so in an upbeat manner, with a
> questioning tone, as you lean or step backward just a little bit, praising
> all the while.  (For more details on this, see the "Hot and Cold" exercise,
> in Part I of the W.E.D.T.M. Manual.)
>
> We don't care if he wants to "go to work" or not.  He's going to, but we
> would do much better if he were looking forward to enjoying it.  This does
> not mean we're going to play, because just as soon as you finish this phrase
> "Do you want to go to work? Good boy," you're going to follow through with
> his next command to come to order.
>
> 2A. Back To Work
>
> "Back to work," is his next command, it's rather like the command
>  "attention" in the military.  It functions as a tool we can utilize to
> command his attention under emergency conditions as well as for daily
> requests.
>
>  "Back to work" is to be followed in the same breath, without pausing or
> hesitating, with the forthcoming commands, while at the same time giving the
> hand signals and foot signals.  It's going to seem much like rubbing your
> head and patting your stomach at the same time.
>
> There are several events that are going to take place one after the other,
> quickly in succession.  Your hand signal and foot signal will coincide with
> the voice commands.   It's crucial that signals and voice commands all
> coincide, as your dog will be learning all of these at once.
>
> 2B. Stay
>
> The "stay" command is very complicated.  There are two hand signals and a
> foot signal as well as, of course, your voice command.  It changes depending
> on whether you are at the side or "heel" position, or at a distance in front
> of him, or whether you are leaving his side with him remaining behind, or if
> you are returning toward him.  Don't worry about anything other than the
> hand signal from the side at this point.
>
> Leaving your dog on the stay command is covered later.  It's simple, but get
> used to the basics first.
>
> Stay from the side is a sweeping motion with your left hand coming forward,
> high from above your elbow, fingers together, as if to touch the tip of your
> middle finger to the top of your dogs nose, being careful to keep your hand
> from breaking into your dogs vision directly over his head.
>
> Follow through by bringing your hand back up and sweeping it around toward
> your chest, placing your left wrist at your dog's right shoulder, as you
> place your palm on his breast bone, as you pat him once or twice, and
> continue into the "sit straight" (or "stand straight" or "down straight")
> command, described below.  This may be a little confusing to visualize. The
> idea here is that you don't want to lean over the dog to set his chest,
> neck, and head.  It's a defensive position that may cause some dogs to snap.
> The forthcoming exercises will have the effect of calming them.
>
> 2C. Sit From The Side
>
> Sit from the side involves just the hand and voice signals.  The left palm
> comes up, until your elbow is bent ninety degrees.  In due course, all you'
> ll need to do is cup your palm.  But for now, let's make it easy for your
> dog to notice.
>
> Sounds pretty easy, so let's throw in some body language.
>
> Before your dog has completed any command in these series, the next command
> in that series will be issued.  We will do this slowly, so that your dog can
> think out what you are asking yet moving into the next phase before the
> prior has been completed.  Not too slowly, but not too fast.  You're going
> to be leading and directing his attention, rather than his body.  His body
> will follow his attention and thoughts.
>
> When you are ready to begin the "return to heel command," get a visual fix
> on a landmark, so as to be sure to orient yourselves correctly after your
> dog has completed sitting.  At the beginning, we'll not worry too much about
> this orientation, or for that matter, any orientation, but it will quickly
> become extremely important to be precise.
>
> Your hand signal for "return to heel" is going to be with your left index
> finger, pointing to the ground just behind your left side, as you look down
> toward your finger.  Leaning your weight on your right foot, so as to
> facilitate the movement of your left foot signal, just about one half step
> backward, not too far so as to lose balance, but enough to get your dog
> inspired to move.  This is an action command, and the motion you use will
> help start your dog's movement.  At the same time your left foot moves, your
> hand signal and eyes will be pointing and moving in sync with your foot, as
> your upper body twists, just kind of a quarter turn left twist of your upper
> body as your foot moves, and back to forward.
>
> "Back to work, heel, good boy, nice dog, sit, stay, good dog."  That's your
> voice command to get him to the return to heel position. When this series
> has finished, and while you are still saying "good dog," you'll need to pat
> him, just once or twice on his chest, as you give him his next command to
> "sit straight," and adjust his front square at your side, by lifting his
> weight by his breast bone, and move his front just a little, as you help
> (actually cheat), by adjusting yourself at the same time to be square at the
> heel position.
>
> Next, run your hand from his breast bone up under his throat, to his chin,
> at which point you'll repeat your stay signal, as you run your hand down one
> side of his body from the left shoulder down along his ribs.  Then the right
> side, then, to one front foot, then the next.  You'll see later.
>
> 2D. Heel vs. Return to Heel
>
> The heel position means your dog's shoulders must be parallel to your knees.
> Return to heel is the means by which he arrives there.  Both commands are
> action words and require movement on your part to teach your dog what it
> means.  The voice command for both tasks is the same.  The movement of your
> left foot and the direction you point your index finger and direct your eyes
>
> do change, depending whether you are going to move forward on the heel, or
> to have your dog return at your side to resume the heel position.
>
> It is imperative that your dog return to the heel position in the manner
> described herein.  Many guides to training for the obedience ring,
> schutzhund, and police dog training will permit your dog to return to the
> heel position by moving himself around behind the handler, coming in toward
> your right side and around to your left, from behind you.  Avoid this, as it
> is likely to create problems.  Likewise, if you allow your dog to "come"
> when called, and resume his place at your side, you're looking for trouble,
> although it is allowed in other methods.  Every detail is important for
> matters only your dog understands at this time!
>
> Let me explain this a little further.  The return to heel is done entirely
> on the left side.  If your dog circles into the left side in a clockwise
> direction, he's giving you his dominant side.  If he's turning in a
> counterclockwise direction, he's looking up at you ready to work willingly.
> The come command is important to cause a sense of subordination and
> dominance in the front, and partnership in the return to heel.  In other
> words, "Familiarity breeds contempt."  We want to keep things formal in
> order to instill discipline.
>
> The heel position is one of equality.  It's as if you were to go out to the
> field to hunt.  You would heel your dog to an area you want to search, and
> then give him his opportunity to do his dog thing.  At the moment you send
> him off to search, he's taken the position of leader.  Once he makes his
> find, he gives that job back to you.  You fire, and he's in charge again.
> He gets his bird, and brings it back to you and gives it up to his leader.
> Then he gets another chance to repeat this performance.  It's a 50/50
> proposition.
>
> That's where we'd like to start.  Fair, 50/50.  But first, we still have to
> finesse the command sequence to get there.
>
> Try this sequence without your dog, but with your leash in your hands, and
> in the privacy of the most comfortable place you can find.  If you are
> fortunate enough to have a friend or family member interested enough to help
> out, give them the script to follow, and have them read to you and supervise
> the details.
>
> When you're ready to try working this on your dog, only try the command
> sequence once or twice, and then tell him he's "free."  "You're free" is a
> command just as important as heel or sit.  It tells him he can relax. Make
> it sound like the umpire who says, "Play ball!"  Don't forget to smile and
> say, "Good boy."  Review in your mind, how your dog took to this, and how
> you performed your commands.
>
> Don't worry about making your dog actually perform his commands.  We have
> plenty of time to teach him, and you both are just getting used to many
> different stimuli.  It's impossible for you to make mistakes at this time.
> In other words, if your dog doesn't know what you want, then he won't
> realize when you have made a mistake.  And besides, you're in charge, and
> can make or break any rules you choose!
>
> Starting and stopping this command sequence is good exercise, as it is
> brief, and comfortable for your dog.  Feel free to ask him to "go back to
> work, heel, sit, stay, good boy, sit straight," several times a day if you
> like, but only do it once at each session, ending as always, with "You're
> free."
>
> You may escape from any command sequence only upon completion of that
> sequence.  However, you can escape any situation or command sequence by
> asking your dog to "come."
>
> The "come" command has been described earlier under "conditioned reflex." At
> that time, we were only interested in the "come" command.  Now, you are
> going to learn to have your dog come and sit in front of you, before
> returning to the heel position.  This sequence will always be followed
> exactly at any time you issue the "come" command.
>
> When your dog comes to you, he is subordinating himself to you.  When you
> ask him to sit in front of you, you are dominating him. When you ask him to
> return to heel, he's once again equal.  Use this!
>
> When you ask your dog to return to heel, and maybe he "snubs" you, just
> repeat the command with sound followed by instant praise, on the word heel.
> Failing that, simply give up on that request, and ask him to "come." You'll
> need to switch the lead to your left hand, use the signal for come with the
> right hand, and certainly be prepared to enforce the come command with
> sound, if you find it necessary to repeat the come command.  Work as quickly
> as you can, but take your time to make sure the timing is correct. You
> should begin to see a pattern developing here.  When a dog fails to perform
> a command, the next command is "come."
>
>  2E. Sit From the Front
>
> While working commands from the front of your dog, do not practice the
> recall or come command, until he is proficient with the other aspects of
> these commands, or you'll create problems with all of the following.
>
> We have just learned the command "sit from the side" or heel position, and,
> as with most commands, each different position or orientation will appear to
> your dog to be an altogether different command.  Even commands given from a
> different distance than what has been familiar, is equally as difficult as
> learning the command initially.
>
> The hand signal is only slightly different, being given with the right hand.
> As it was with the original command from the side, we'll give a full upward
> sweep of the hand, bringing it up from your side by your leg, until the
> forearm is parallel to the ground with the palm up.  Once he becomes
> familiar with your commands, the signal can be diminished to just cupping
> your hand briefly.
>
> When you ask your dog to come, it is required that he sit himself so he is
> directly in front of you, his toes about 6 inches away from your toes. This
> is a crucial element of establishing strict discipline.  It is a good
> barometer of how readily your dog is willing to work for you.  If he comes
> and sits directly in front of you with his back toward you, this could
> indicate several possibilities.
>
> The first likelihood is that he is not willingly working as your
> subordinate.  In this case, he may be trying to establish the 50/50 equality
> we discussed earlier in the heel command.  Remember, when he comes and sits
> in front of you, he is looking up to you as an appropriate authority figure
> and thereby subordinating himself.
>
> We know that dogs do not do things for no reason.  Therefore, if he has
> chosen to perform this command incorrectly, it may be for reasons other than
> simply to challenge your authority.  Perhaps, in his opinion, he has done
> this for security measures, and has changed his orientation to your command.
> Were that to be the case, we might allow this discrepancy to permit him to
> observe the suspected or perceived threat.  If that were the case, asking
> him to return to heel would cause him to back himself into the heel
> position, without taking his eyes off of the front view. That would be O.K.
> under certain circumstances.
>
> Right now, we'll look at this as an example of performing the command
> incorrectly due to inexperience. This is why we have not yet covered how to
> get your dog to sit.  It's important to understand that accomplishing a
> command is not relevant to our agenda. So, first of all you must hurry up
> and relax.
>
> When we ask our dog to sit from any position, it is our ultimate goal to get
>
> him to sit exactly where we indicate.  Therefore, whether he sits or not, is
> secondary to our ultimate goal. This is important mainly to enforce strict
> discipline.  In other words, we have the option to cause our dog to work
> harder and harder to satisfy our request.  The difference is between what
> the goal is for today vs. what you will want your dog to accomplish a few
> days hence.  Right now, it's important to teach the sit command, so wherever
> this is accomplished, is great.  In a couple of days we'll only settle for
> exactly straight to the side or in front, etc.
>
> We will apply the knowledge and techniques on which we've been working in
> order to format a routine for training and temperament development.  This
> routine is the heeling pattern exercise, which will give you the ability to
> exercise your dog's mind in a manner that cannot be accomplished through any
> other means. The heeling pattern will exercise will balance the dominant and
> submissive nature of your dog's personality, and it only requires about four
> minutes of work.
>
>  3. THE HEELING PATTERN EXERCISE
>
> Start your dog, as you always will, by showing him the lead and asking him
> if he wants to go to work.  Follow through by telling him he's a good boy,
> and then order him "Back to work," follow through with heel, good boy, nice
> dog (to keep his attention), and ask him to sit.
>
> Remember now, that on the return-to-heel, your left foot and index finger
> will be the signal or CUE, and the movement of the left foot and hand, must
> coincide with the voice command. All of your weight must be on the right
> foot.
>
> As your dog returns to the heel position he must return counter clockwise on
> your left side, and square himself to the heel position.  As in all of these
> exercises you must orient yourselves by using a landmark in relationship to
> the direction you are facing, and make sure that your dog, when finished, is
> properly lined up towards it. But let's not get ahead of ourselves.
>
> If he refused to turn counter clockwise, that could indicate a problem, such
> as an effort to resist working properly for you.  However, to be fair, we
> must be certain this is the case.  It's possible that he is "left-handed."
> We'll see very shortly.
>
> First, we must accomplish getting him to sit.  We expect your dog will not
> want to sit when you ask him.  While he is making the counter clockwise
> turn, when his nose is pointing directly opposite of yours, you will ask him
> to sit.  Do not wait for him to complete turning around, or he will continue
> moving out of position. Follow through with the stay signal (and voice
> command) before he comes to a sit.
>
> NOW we can work on the sit!  As you collect your lead by inching your way
> down the half-length of it with your right hand, you may extend your right
> arm with the elbow locked and arm straight ahead in order to take up the
> extra slack and prevent his head from spinning around.  Your left hand can
> reach back, as you shift your weight on to your left foot, and put your
> middle finger and thumb just in front of his hips.  In this manner you will
> be able to move with him if he tries to move around.  You can pivot to
> maintain the heel position while negotiating the sit but you must not walk
> from that spot.
>
> You can control the front of your dog with the lead, by gently applying
> alternating tension on the lead as you gently touch without applying
> pressure, to try to get him to flex his rear into the sitting position.
> When he begins to flex to assume the sit, your hand must come away from his
> rear, and follow through with the stay signal.  Do not try to push him all
> the way down, and do not try to force him into the position.  Just touch the
> middle finger and thumb in front of the hip for a moment till he pushes
> back, and immediately release. If he begins to flex to assume the sit, your
> hand must come away from his rear, and follow through with the stay signal
> and the praise and then the sit straight command, etc.
>
> If he didn't sit, as we'd expect, you may repeat the command a second time,
> with a sound cue accompanying the signal and voice followed immediately by
> prolonged, non-physical praise. Continue working in this manner until it
> seems that he no longer remembers your request or resists.  That being the
> case, you may in a conversational tone, repeat the command and hand signal
> without a sound cue for your third request to sit during this command
> sequence.
>
> While negotiating the sit, it is appropriate if necessary, to turn in any
> direction to maintain the heel position to your dog's shoulder.  It doesn't
> matter where you end up facing to the original point of orientation, so long
> as you find him sitting at the heel position.  Praise him for completing the
> sit, and then ask him to sit straight, as you adjust him towards the
> orientation point or landmark that you were facing originally.
>
> Now you must adjust him to the appropriate position.  Don't try to do this
> all at once, or you'll upset the apple cart!  At first, just square him to
> your side till he feels comfortable being adjusted.  You'll extend your
> right arm to control his front; the left foot must remain stationary at the
> heel position.  The right foot may step back a few inches as you bend at the
> knees, and using the left palm on the large muscle of the rear leg of your
> dog, gently push just a little as you ask him to sit straight.  Be sure to
> follow through with the stay signal, and praise.  Once again you may adjust
> his front.  Soon, you will be able to turn him any amount in order to
> accomplish making him return to the heel position.  And after just a few
> days of practice, he'll adjust himself on your command "sit straight."
>
>  Of course, all of the above presumes that your dog performed the initial
> phase of the return to heel command.  If he did not, then you will have to
> ask him a fourth request with sound on the cue word to "return to heel" (the
> command to your dog is simply heel, the "return to" is for your
> understanding only).
>
> So, let's say he refuses the fourth request.  That's O.K. Simply place the
> handle of your lead into the left hand, and step backwards dropping the
> length of the lead while giving the come command signaling with the right
> hand, and collect the lead, taking the half length in your right hand, and
> placing it into your left palm along with the handle of the lead.  Your
> signal, of course, for the come command must accompany the voice command.
>
> As you move backward, you may go as little or far as you need to accomplish
> getting him to come straight in to you.  The come command should have been
> properly conditioned earlier, so that now all you need to do is work on sit
> from the front!
>
> While he's in motion on the recall, ask for the sit before he gets to you.
> Do this while he is about three feet away.  This will give him time to
> process thinking of your command.
>
> Your lead will be in your left hand, and you may shorten it by taking the
> length with your right hand, and slide it through your left palm, as you
> follow through with the hand signal to sit from the front.  Keep that signal
> open, and wait.  Stand erect, and try to lean towards him a little.  Bring
> your right hand forward, and with the middle finger and thumb, touch just in
> front of his hipbone.  If he starts to flex into position, follow through
> with the stay signal, even before he has finished sitting. Of course, you
> will follow through with praise, and while doing so, pat him on the chest as
> you ask him to "sit straight," and adjust him square in front of you.
>
> You may turn as much as is necessary to maintain the position directly in
> front of your dog.  Where he sits is relevant only to his position to you at
> this time.  If necessary, you may repeat the command to "sit from the
>  front," using sound on the cue word (the command sit is for the dog, and
> sit from the front is for your clarification).
>
> As soon as you've got him seated squarely in front of you, the lead will be
> placed into your right hand, and complete the exercise by returning him to
> the heel position.
>
> Now you're ready to move forward on the heel.  Your voice command, "Heel,"
> must coincide with the movement of your left foot, your eyes must be
> directed forward, you may signal with your left index finger forward, and
> step forward speaking to him as though he were working perfectly.  You'll go
> forward at least three full steps, speaking a word of praise with each step.
> If he moves along with you, that's fine.  If not, that's O.K.; collect your
> lead as you step directly backward into the heel position.  Some dogs will
> simply sit there. Give a second request using sound on the cue word and
> signal, and follow through as before.  If he again refuses to move along
> into the heel, simply step back again, and prefix your third request as
> before.  If he has broken the sit command, disregard that. The prior command
> is not being broken, the new command  "heel" is the one we're now concerned
> with.
>
> This point is crucial so don't rush through it!
>
> Let's look at this from your dog's point of view.  Your dog is sitting at
> the heel position.  You step forward on the heel, and he lies down.  He
> broke the heel command, not the sit.  Once a new command is issued, the
> previous command no longer exists.
>
> So, once again you find yourself on the heel command, three steps in front
> of your dog, and he is sitting at the starting point.  After your fourth
> request to heel, give up on that, and ask him to come.  Of course, he must
> come to a sit in front of you, and after all of the prerequisites have been
> attended to, return him to heel, and try again.
>
> Now you should be working well, with the default system being quite well
> understood by your dog.  As we move forward on the heel, expect him to do so
> for only three steps.  I don't expect he'll want to cooperate, and even if
> he did, it's still his obligation to try to get away with as much as he can!
>
> As he breaks forward on the heel, usually on your third step forward, simply
> reverse your direction by pivoting in the exact opposite direction, being
> sure not to allow any contact with the collar.  We don't want to make him
> follow you.  Anyone can take a dog on a six-inch length of chain, and force
> him to heel.  It does not matter if you are forcing him on a six-inch chain,
> or a six-foot lead.  Any force is undesirable, and will result in problems.
> Doing these exercises correctly does not require that your dog perform
> properly, just you!
>
> Each time your dog charges past your side, simply make a sound and praise as
> you reverse, moving smoothly and fluidly, exactly opposite of the direction
> his nose is pointing.  He will break past you, maybe every three steps. And
> you will alternate sounds with praise as you reverse.  Soon, he's going to
> do one of three things, and your response should be spontaneous and fluid at
> each of these junctures.  We will deal with each possibility in turn.
>
> ? He will go behind you on your right side.  If he does this, you will pivot
> to your left.
> ? He will not turn with you.  At this point, you should simply give up on
> the heel command, and ask him to come.  By now you should realize that the
> lead must be put into your left hand, etc., before asking for the "recall"
> or "come" command.  This requires a sit from the front, before returning
> once again to the heel position.  Follow through with the sit from the side,
> and begin again.
> ? He will cut you off by shouldering in front of your knee.  This time, you'
> re going to handle things just a little bit differently.  As he tries to cut
> you off, he's actually trying to force you into a circle to your right. At
> this time, you must circle him to the left.
>
> Remember, everything you do is opposite of the direction your dog chooses.
>
> In order to turn left when he's trying to go to the right in front of you,
> you'll have to get your left foot over in front of him, as you make another
> sound distraction and tell him good boy.  You'll probably need to correct
> him in this manner two or three times alternating the direction of the
> origin of the sound distractions always followed by praise. As you shorten
> your lead just enough to apply a very slight amount of tension on the lead,
> using your right hand out to your right side, and release, which will cause
> him to drop back to heel. Try to move him into a complete left circle, and
> come to a sit when you have come full circle.
>
> This circle will start off being rather large, perhaps six, eight, ten feet
> or more in diameter.  It is important to finish at exactly three hundred and
> sixty degrees.  Come to a sit at this point, follow through with your stay
> command, praise, adjust him to sit straight, and proceed into a three
> hundred and sixty-degree right circle.
>
> Next, we're going to try again to move forward on the heel command, and
> proceed only four steps, and make a ninety degree left turn, taking only two
>
> steps, and making a ninety degree right turn, and continue for only four
> steps.  You may need to make a slight correction with each turn.  This
> correction must be performed without pulling back on the lead with your left
> hand.  The right hand is the only hand on the lead, proceeding slowly and
> deliberately speaking with each step: 1) "Heel good boy," step 2) "Nice
>  dog!" step 3) "That's a good fella," (next tuning left) step 4) "Heel good
> boy," as you make a ninety degree left turn and continue only one more step
> while praising and then turn right with another request to heel followed by
> "Good boy," and continue as before for three steps, and on the fourth step
> turn into a full left hand circle and come to a halt where you've taken a
> fix on a landmark as you start/finish point, and ask for a sit. We'll follow
> through with the sit straight command, and the relaxation, and then move
> into a three hundred sixty degree right circle.
>
> If everything is going quite well, you should just about get dizzy, with all
>
> of this turning and pivoting.  At this point, do not try to go for any
> distance in the heel position.  You'll have many years of walking with your
> dog at the heel position.  This heeling exercise will give you and your dog
> all of the basic practice that you need to accomplish anything you desire.
>
> 3A. Down From the Side
>
> At any time you have your dog sitting correctly in the heel position, you
> may ask him to lie down.  Your left hand will come up from your side, palm
> open, fingers together, and pointing directly towards the left.  Bring your
> hand from high above your dogs head, and slightly forward, so as to not come
> into his line of vision abruptly or close to his eyes, at the moment you
> give the voice command to down. Keep the signal open, and wait.  Give him
> plenty of time to think about this command.  After several seconds, and when
> it seems that he is no longer thinking about this command, repeat the signal
> and voice command with the appropriate sound cue and follow through with
> praise.  Continue praising once again, until you are sure he is no longer
> thinking about your request.
>
> Repeat the third request and praise without the sound cue.  Keep this hand
> signal open as you bring your right arm forward, placing the length of the
> lead under your left palm, and place your left thumb over the lead. You'll
> have no tension on the collar; the lead will be under your palm, coming
> between your index finger and thumb.  Do not apply pressure.  This will
> protect your face as you reach for his left leg with your left hand with the
> length of the lead in it.  The right hand will have the lead at the
> half-length as it was during the heel.  Now place the right hand on the dogs
> ' right leg and gently lift to place his paws forward.  Do not try to force
> him to lie down.
>
> If you place his feet just a few inches forward, follow through with the
> stay signal, stand up straight, and praise him.  Wait for him to finish
> lying down on his own, even if it's ten or twenty minutes later. Do not
> praise with your hand when he is in the down position.  And as always, you
> may ask him to down straight.  You might touch his shoulders with your
> middle finger and thumb gently between his shoulder blades, or the flat of
> your palm on the large muscle of his shoulder or rear legs to ask him to
> down straight.  At this time you may pat him.
>
>
> 3B. Leave Your Dog on a Stay Command
>
> You may begin to leave your dog on a stay command from either a sitting,
> standing, or lying down position.  Sitting would be easiest.  The stay
> command is much easier than it sounds.  Proper timing will make this command
> simple.  The secret is to use all of the cues we have available at the same
> time. We will teach your dog to heel automatically when you step forward
> with your left foot, and to stay automatically when you step forward with
> your right foot.
>
> Your right foot will be an additional signal to teach your dog to stay. It
> must coincide with the voice command, and at the same time, you will drop
> the length of your lead directly in front of your dog's face as you move
> directly toward the end of your lead. If done correctly, we have four
> signals working in our favor. Dropping the length of your lead (but not the
> handle) will have a visual impact on keeping him in the stay command.
>
> Give your stay hand signal, voice command, and movement of your right foot
> all together, as you bring your right arm forward and release the length of
> the lead from your palm.  As you step forward with your left foot, place the
> handle of your lead into your left hand.
>
> If he should break the stay command before you have stepped forward with
> your left foot, use your sound and praise and take the middle of you lead
> with your left hand to collect the lead back into the palm of your right
> hand, and step back into the heel position, and if necessary, repeat your
> sit command.
>
> If this sounds contrary to the earlier discussion about correcting the last
> command that your dog broke, I agree.  However, to your dog, stay is a
> non-action!  That means that he did not break the stay command, but rather,
> he broke the sit command.  The position he was in was the stay command; the
> concept of stay does not mean much to your dog.
>
>  If you leave his side correctly, and he breaks the command from the side,
> he must be corrected from the side.    Most of the time, you'll just step
> back as you make a sound cue and if necessary sit, stay, good, sit straight,
> and repeat the stay signal and voice command as you step forward again.
>
> Once you have taken two steps forward, even though he is behind you, if he
> breaks the stay command now, he has broken it from the front.  That means
> you'll need to place the handle of the lead into your left hand, turn to
> face him, collecting the length of your lead with your right hand, and
> placing it into the palm of your left, as the signal to sit comes with your
> right hand.
>
> Try to get him sitting with as little physical contact as possible, drop the
> length of your lead, step all of the way back to the end of your lead,
> repeat your stay signal from the front, at the same time as you step forward
> on your right foot and continue directly towards him, collecting the length
> of your lead into your left palm.  Now you may physically praise him, ask
> him to sit straight, adjust him, repeat the stay signal from the front as
> you drop the length of the lead and step back.
>
> Initially, we will give extra stay signals (with voice commands) at each
> point of our movement.  We expect him to break the stay command when we
> move, so move smoothly, and distinctly, giving the signal with each new
> movement.  When correcting a broken stay command use a sound and praise
> only, and return the dog to the position without comment or physical
> contact, if possible.  Return to the point where he was when he broke the
> command, praise from that distance, repeat the stay command again as you
> quickly move in toward him, ask him to sit straight again, praise, pat,
> repeat the stay command and go back.  Each point of movement requires
> handling of the lead properly to correct any mistakes quickly and without
> fussing. (By point of movement, I mean when you leave the side, when you
> reach the end of the lead and turn to face him, and when you begin to return
> to him).
>
> 3C. Returning to the Heel Position
>
>  Now you are ready to return to the heel position by going behind your dog.
> As you move toward your dog, repeat your stay signal from the front, place
> the handle of your lead into your right hand, and side your left hand down
> the length of the lead, to keep it adjusted as you go to your right, along
> the left side of your dog.
>
>  As you return to your dog, if he breaks the stay command before you get
> directly behind him, the lead must go back into your left hand to correct
> him from the front.
>
>  As you return to your dog, if he breaks the stay command when you are
> directly behind him, the lead will return to your right hand, and you will
> correct him from the side. Once he's used to that, get him used to paying
> attention to your feet as you pass by, lulling him into a false sense that
> he's going to remain there, as you plant your left foot at the heel position
> and pass by stepping off on your right foot with your stay signal and
> command. After several repetitions, plant your right foot at his shoulder
> and pass by on your left foot, asking for a heel and taking just one step,
> ask for a sit.
>
> Long stay commands are simply a matter of understanding how long your dog
> will remain in the desired position before moving.  If your dog is willing
> to remain in position for any given period of time, it is likely that he
> will be consistent, and remain in that position for whatever amount of time
> as long as he feels comfortable.  Carefully time his limits, and just before
> that time span has elapsed, make a move using the appropriate signals. This
> should have the effect of "re- starting" his clock.  So, if you expect he'll
> remain sitting for ten seconds, make your move at about eight seconds into
> the command, and return to your original point and wait.  Anticipate when he
> will break the command, and you'll have no difficulty extending the amount
> of time that he is able to stay on command.
>
> The American Kennel Club (A.K.C.) requires that a stay command last for only
>
> three minutes of sitting, and six minutes in the down position. That is
> probably due to time constraints in the show ring.  For our purposes, you
> determine the quantity of time that you would prefer your dog to remain in a
> stay command.  Remember, each time you must correct your dog for breaking a
> stay command is an opportunity to extend his ability to wait. Be consistent,
> patient, and persistent.  Don't ask him to do something, and forget about
> following through to properly enforce the desired command.
>
> 3D. Down From the Front
>
> When both you and your dog are comfortable with working on stay commands,
> you may go on to down from the front.  Start at the six-foot distance, and
> use a full sweep of the forearm, keeping the signal open, fingers together,
> palm down, fingers pointing toward your dog.
>
> Give your signal and wait as before, and if necessary repeat your second
> request with sound on the cue word.  On your third request, as your signal
> is coming down, collect your lead with your right hand at the half-length,
> placing it into your left palm.  Keeping your right hand on the length of
> the lead, control the lead with your right thumb, as you move in to grasp
> the left front leg with your right hand, being careful not to release the
> length of the lead.  Your left hand will do likewise, keeping the lead
> folded as you place your left hand on his right front leg, making sure that
> the collar has no tension on it, but that the lead has no slack.  This will
> protect your face while working on placing your dog down.
>
> Gently pick up on his front feet, and move them forward.  Even if they come
> forward only a couple of inches, follow through with your stay command, drop
> the length of your lead as you step all the way back.  In the unlikely event
>
> that your dog remains in the down position, you must return to the heel
> position quickly, thus avoiding the likelihood that he will now break the
> down -stay command.  This would require that you again place him into the
> down position from the front.  Once you've returned to the heel position, if
> he should break the down stay command, you may correct him from the side.
>
>  4. PRACTICING LONG STAY COMMANDS
>
> Try leaving your dog from the heel position on a sit or down-stay command,
> stepping off with your right foot as you issue the stay signal with voice
> command, dropping the length of your lead directly in front of his nose as
> your left foot is proceeding into its first movement of your second step.
> As you plant your left foot on the ground, the handle of the lead must go
> over the thumb of your left hand, and your right foot should be moving
> forward into your third step, and continue to the six foot length of your
> lead.  Turning to face him with a flash of your right palm and a repeat
> voice command to stay, tell him he's a good dog, repeat your stay signal and
> voice command as you once again step forward on your right foot.
>
> Depending on whether you want to move directly into him to adjust his
> position, or to pat and reassure him, or continue to go around him to return
> to the heel position, requires different handling techniques with the lead.
>
> These differences are important so that any errors may be corrected
> efficiently, and also so that we will not give any unintentional cues that
> might cause him to break his command.  This is what "telegraphing" means,
> the term mentioned in Part I of this manual.   By doing this, you throw the
> dog off guard, which keeps him distracted while you are moving.
>
> If your intent is to keep him sitting or down while in front of you at a
> distance, you'll need to control the lead with your left hand. If he should
> break the stay command, just sound and praise and if necessary repeat the
> signal and the command that he broke (in this case either sit or down), and
> without speaking, collect the lead with your right hand, keeping the signal
> open, and placing the lead half way down into your left hand.
>
> If your intent is to return to the heel position, you'll need to hold the
> handle of your lead with the right hand, sliding your left hand down the
> length of your lead as you approach him.
>
> So, when you're at the six-foot distance in front of him, as you're about to
> move toward him, repeat your stay signal as you step forward with your right
> foot. Move directly forward, collecting your lead into your left hand, step
> right up to your dog, pat, praise, adjust, repeat the stay signal, and step
> directly back as you drop the length of the lead, and return to the six foot
> distance in front of your dog.  Repeat your stay signal once again as you
> step forward on your right foot, place the handle of your lead into your
> right hand, slide your left hand down the lead as you extend your arms
> enough to keep the extra slack out of the way, and proceed to your right
> around your dog.  As you step past his head, this is the moment when he will
> be likely to break position.  If he does, make a sound distraction and
> praise, while placing the lead into your left hand, repeat your signal with
> your right hand and voice command with praise, correct his position, drop
> the length as you step all of the way back, praise from this distance,
> repeat your stay commands, and try again to return around him.  As you do
> so, if he breaks position as you approach directly behind him, correct him
> as you would from the side.
>
> Next time, plan your move so that you plant your left foot at the heel
> position, as you move without hesitation into the stay command, passing by
> him with your right foot, moving directly to the end of your lead.  Repeat
> this several times, just moving forward and returning around from behind him
> and leaving him seated as you pass by.
>
> After several tries, plan your move so that when you are directly behind him
> you will plant your right foot at the heel position, and pass his shoulder
> as you step out of the stationary heel position and into the forward heel
> with your left foot, hand signal, and voice command to heel.  Take three
> steps, speaking with each step and come to a halt, asking for a sit or down.
>
>
>  5. STAND
>
> The signal for stand may be given from the side or the front (front is
> easier) with the palm open, facing down, just a sweep in front of your
> chest.  You may move your right foot at the same time, forward from the
> side, and backward from the front.  As with the other commands, repeat after
> a few moments, or if he seems to no longer be acknowledging recognition of
> the command.  On your third request, prefix your command with "no" and
> repeat, gently coax him into position.
>
> From the front, as soon as he begins to move, follow through with sound and
> praise and the stay signal, and go directly toward him, asking him to stand
> straight.  Adjust his front, come around behind him into the heel position,
> repeat the stay signals, run your hand along the sides of his body, adjust
> his feet so they are lined up properly, and move forward to the end of your
> lead.
>
> To exit a stand-stay command, return to the heel position and take one step
> forward on the heel, and ask for a sit or down.  Try to avoid asking him to
> come to you from a standing position.
>
>  6. DOWN IN MOTION (ON HEEL OR RECALL)
>
> Now that we have the heeling pattern exercise, we can use it to teach other
> more advanced work.  The down while in motion is particularly easy to teach
> if we give the down command on our third step, when the dog is going to
> expect us to turn left. He's ready to turn with you and that's a perfect
> opportunity to ask him to do something different, like drop as we give the
> down signal on our left foot and step past him on our next step with our
> right foot, with a stay command as we continue to the end of the lead.
>
> The same idea is demonstrated with the down on recall. The dog is familiar
> with coming nine feet. (That is, the distance comprised of the six-foot
> length of your lead and the three-foot length of your arm.)  So the dog is
> used to coming nine feet and sitting. Therefore, when we ask for a down on
> recall, we just ask for a come command, step back six feet and ask for a
> down as we step one step forward, follow through, and step back to the full
> length of the lead to praise. Then you can ask again for a come to finish.
> Now that we have these distances the dog is able to work with, we can use it
> for all kinds of commands.
>
>  7. CONCLUSION
>
> Today, the state of the art in dog training industry remains about the same.
> Modern dog training has undergone little change since its inception in this
> country as a sport at the end of World War II.  The methodology was and
> still is based on the military model utilized on the Nazis' command dogs.
>
> I have used non-force training methods on some of the most aggressive and
> biggest, and smallest and shyest dogs you could possibly find, and I stake
> my life on non-force, non-confrontational training methods. I haven't used a
> sharp correction on any dog in twenty-five years.
>
> Proper handling and behavioral conditioning techniques solve serious
> behavior problems in minutes, not weeks and months, with no negative
> interactions, no confrontation, fear, or force.  Conditioning and shaping
> behaviors avoids the pitfalls of the probable and predictable side effects
> of inhibiting and repressing a dog's natural, instinctive behaviors.
>
> Repercussions from conflicting with a dog's instinctive, natural, behaviors
> are stress, anxiety, fear, anger, and aversion (a loathsome life condition),
> often result in excessive barking, destructive chewing, pacing, whining,
> self mutilation, aggression, and health disorders like seizures and
> intestinal and digestive disorders and other such stress induced anxiety
> relief mechanisms.
>
> That's why I laugh at these trainers who take months to train their dogs.
> They bust their butts busting dogs' butts, and constantly have to keep doing
> more of the same. Constantly correcting their dogs, always having to
> immediately react to each undesirable behavior. Specific behavior problems
> are inhibited, but the behavior changes to other undesirable behaviors as
> replacements, because the nature or cause of the problem has not changed.
>
> Many undesirable dog behaviors are reflexive in the dog's thinking. That
> means he has given little or no thought into what he has just done; he
> simply reacted to circumstance. How
> can you correct a dog from doing something that he did, that he didn't even
> know he had done?
>
> Most behavioral problems are a result of conflict and stress.  Those
> conflicts are often misunderstood and mistaken by the so-called
> "domination/submission" theory trainers. To their way of thinking, dogs are
> constantly challenging us for authority, and it is our obligation to react
> in kind, and push back harder to intimidate the dog. While that may or may
> not be the case in some small percentage of dogs, unfortunately it is widely
> taught and used.
>
> The problem with that approach is that by nature it is adversarial and
> compunctious. It challenges a problem that does not deserve attention, and
> makes a serious issue that never ends, from something that could have easily
> been finessed and redirected or extinguished, through proper conditioning,
> demonstrated self control, and positive reinforcement.
>
> In order to get control, you have to give up on the micro aspects of control
> and force. It is when we force control, that we challenge instinctive
> behaviors and create and encounter out of control behaviors. Any behavior
> can be modified through proper conditioning without force or
> conflict.
>
> Using non-force methods, you can teach a dog to come every time you call in
> about forty minutes.
>
> Using non-force methods, you can stop a dog from jumping and mouthing in
> about fifteen minutes, maybe less.
>
> Using non-force methods, you can avoid the substitution of other negative
> behaviors as replacements.
>
> Using non-force methods is the fastest, most effective way to get your dog
> to do anything you ask without stifling the dog's personality, breaking his
> spirit, or adversely affecting his temperament.
>
> I don't use non-force methods because I lack willpower or just because force
> training is "cruel." I use non-force methods because I have been training
> dogs for thirty-eight years, and I learned the hard way that force,
> confrontation, and fear have no place in a training environment. Compulsion
> training is less efficient, and potentially causes more problems than it
> solves.
>
> Consistent, positive reinforcement and praise, coupled with Pavlovian
> conditioned reflex, are the only effective tools necessary that will
> permanently improve any dog's behavior, and compel your dog to do anything
> you ask.
>
> THIS CONCLUDES PART TWO OF THE W.E.D.T.M. MANUAL
>
>
>



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--

On Fri, 1 Mar 2002 20:34:06   
 Andrew wrote:
>In a way I am offended, but I take it as it is. Helpful advise. I have asked
>it from others since getting out of the military not to sugar coat it so to
>speak. As I hope that yall can tell I have tried to fix the situation. I
>dont understand it. My spell check button isn't working. I have tried to
>always better myself when something has been pointed out to me. To some
>extent I must add. What I mean by that is: If someone dont like my hair, big
>deal. If it is something i can do something about I try to fix it. Such as
>my punctation and the likes of that. Sopoint taken and understood. You can
>all stop the bitching about my lack of complete understanding of the english
>laungage. I admit I am not an Einstein, and am not the smartest person in
>the world. I am just a man. I have faults. Then again show me a person that
>is alive that is perfect.


Well, if I can cheer you up, this last message was correct. People
here won't stop at small typos, we do it all the time ( i know that I
certainly do some), it's the repetition of typos or slang caracters
which is annoying.

Don't worry, there are no Einstein here, no Shakespeare either (well,
there is Ray Feist though <g>) and you can have whatever opinions you
want on a particular topic, even if you believe that Pug is evil... 
:-)

Paddyjack





>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Donna M. Jaggard" <donna@arwen.org>
>To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
>Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 6:23 PM
>Subject: Re: what is important?
>
>
>> > So I ask what is important? Constantaly cutting people down
>> > to make yourself feel good, or trying to assist someone in bettering
>> > themselves?
>>
>> See, now you're getting offended. Not necessarily the point. Not my point,
>> anyways. :)
>>
>> Perhaps we *are* trying to assist you in bettering yourself? I find a lot
>of
>> people just don't realize that terrible spelling is ridiculously annoying.
>So, I
>> tell them, and I try to explain why. If they disagree, and go on writing
>terribly,
>> all the power to them -- but I likely won't read it... and neither will
>many
>> others.
>>
>> This would be my point. Take it or leave it. :)
>>
>> As for penmanship... well, this is why I type. *I* can't even read my own
>> writing...
>>
>> -d
>>
>>
>
>


2,000,000,000 Web Pages--you only need 1. Save time with My Lycos.
http://my.lycos.com



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Subject: Re: AudioBooks - Question For Ray
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Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 08:47:29 +0000
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From: John <john@crydee.com>
Subject: Re: AudioBooks - Question For Ray
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Grinim <Grinim@rogers.com> writes
>Hiyas
> 
>  I was just curious what your opinion of AudioBooks was.  I have recently
>become interested in them, But have noticed that you have (as far as I can
>tell) Not released any titles in this format. 
Rage of a Demon King, Tear of the Gods
>Have you thought about it?  Or
>are you against this format? 
It is down to the publisher
> 
> 
-- 
John

john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.

Raymond E Feist Ring
http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm



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From: "Justin" <justin.carew@ntlworld.com>
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References: <001e01c1c1be$364dcd20$027ba8c0@Home>
Subject: Re: AudioBooks - Question For Ray
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 10:13:34 -0000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Justin" <justin.carew@ntlworld.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: AudioBooks - Question For Ray
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 10:13:34 -0000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I think i saw 2 tapes. RoaDK and the wood boy. but i'm not sure.

Justin
>  ----- Original Message ----- 
>  From: Grinim 
>  To: FEISTFANS-L 
>  Sent: Saturday, March 02, 2002 7:45 AM
>  Subject: AudioBooks - Question For Ray
>
>
>  Hiyas
>
>    I was just curious what your opinion of AudioBooks was.  I have recently become interested in them, But have noticed that you have (as far as I can tell) Not released any titles in this format.  Have you thought about it?  Or are you against this format?  
>
>    Chad Stephens

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Subject: Re: Fw: The Wits' End Dog Training Method
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*** EOOH ***
From: Paul Cowan <plite@xtra.co.nz>
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Fw: The Wits' End Dog Training Method
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 23:28:37 +1200
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On 2 Mar 2002, at 15:36, Nevyn wrote:

> Seeing as though we're having an OT list I thought some people might get
> some use out of this AMAZING dog training manual.
> 
> 
> Thanks,
>               Nevyn

I for one don't appreciate either your sarcasm or your giant email, 
which will only generate more OT conversation regarding what a 
monstrous prat you are.  Some of us pay for our bandwidth buddy.

"Fools, I'll destroy you all!" - Mahatma Gandhi.
Paul Cowan.



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Thread-Topic: AudioBooks - Question For Ray
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*** EOOH ***
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Thread-Topic: AudioBooks - Question For Ray
From: "Randy Wallenhorst" <Randy@mail2myplane.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: AudioBooks - Question For Ray
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 08:41:35 -0800
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_______________________________________________________________
Get the FREE email that has everyone talking at
http://www.mail2world.com

<-----Original Message----->

From: Grinim
Subject: AudioBooks - Question For Ray

>Hiyas
> 
>  I was just curious what your opinion of 
>AudioBooks was.  I have recently become interested in them, But have 
>noticed that you have (as far as I can tell) Not released any titles in
>this 
>format.  Have you thought about it?  Or are you against this 
>format?  
> 
>  Chad Stephens


I'm also curious about this. Personally I think audio books are great
for certain subjects that are far too dry for most people to read like
macro-economics. It also seems to be a succesful meduim for the self
help category type books (people management, etc.). However, IMHO great
works like all of the books Ray has written thus far are best
experienced by reading them yourself, not having them read to you.

Randy

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Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 09:07:38 -0800
Subject: Re: AudioBooks - Question For Ray
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 09:07:38 -0800
Subject: Re: AudioBooks - Question For Ray
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Friday, March 1, 2002, at 11:45 PM, Grinim wrote:

> Hiyas
>  
>   I was just curious what your opinion of AudioBooks was.  I have 
> recently become interested in them, But have noticed that you have (as 
> far as I can tell) Not released any titles in this format.  Have you 
> thought about it?  Or are you against this format? 
>  
>   Chad Stephens
>
>

Rage and Betrayal (I think) were both done as audio.  My mother is 
vision impaired, so I like the idea.  My big problem is that most of the 
stuff that isn't major bestseller is abridged, and that bugs me.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.

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From: "MChaloner" <markchaloner@btinternet.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: AudioBooks - Question For Ray
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 17:29:47 -0000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "MChaloner" <markchaloner@btinternet.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: AudioBooks - Question For Ray
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 17:29:47 -0000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

>On Friday, March 1, 2002, at 11:45 PM, Grinim wrote:
>>I was just curious what your opinion of AudioBooks was.  I have recently
>>become interested in them, But have noticed that you have (as far as I
>>can tell) Not released any titles in this format.  Have you thought
>>about it?  Or are you against this format? 
>>Chad Stephens
>
>Rage and Betrayal (I think) were both done as audio. My mother is vision
>impaired, so I like the idea. My big problem is that most of the stuff
>that isn't major bestseller is abridged, and that bugs me.
>Best, R.E.F.
>

Would you ever consider reading one of them yourself if you were
approached? If not, is there a particular actor or actress you admire
that you wouldn't mind doing it?

---
mark ;-)
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
'A man who sees a god in his master, scarcely hopes for paradise'
- Marquis de Custine
markchaloner@btinternet.com 



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From: Reidar Høyem <reidar.hoyem@c2i.net>
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Subject: Hello!
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 18:56:27 +0100
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*** EOOH ***
From: Reidar Høyem <reidar.hoyem@c2i.net>
To: "Feistlist" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Hello!
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 18:56:27 +0100
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Hi everyone!

A little something about me:
I'm 29 yrs. and I live in Oslo, Norway. Currently unemployed, but I'm
working on it! Hope no one will be offended by my spelling though... I'll do
my best.

I've been a REF-fan for about 10 years. Apprentice was the first fantasy
novel I read after LOTR and The Hobbit. I haven't read the Empire series
yet, but I'm getting there. Just finished Tear of the Gods and now I'm
waiting eagerly for the next book in the series. I've heard it will be
called Crawler. Is this correct, and when can we expect to find it in the
bookshops?

Just bougth the first book in the Riftwar Legacy. Looking forward to reading
it.

When can we expect something more on the Serpentwar Saga? (Or have I just
missed out on something?


Ray, just wanna say a BIG thank you for chearing your world with the rest of
us!

PS! Are there any other continents other than "The kingdom (+Kesh)" and
"Novinus"? What about "global map"? (Hope I'm not completely out of line...)
Something about a "map-book" has been mentioned...


Again, thanks Ray.


Regards, Reidar

"There are sunsets above other oceans, Ghuda. Mighty sights and great
wonders to behold."




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*** EOOH ***
From: "Nevyn" <alien4@wasp.net.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: eh-umm... 
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 02:29:37 +0800
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Whoever used me e-mail address to unsubscribe me from the list please
dont do it again :o(

Thanks,
              Nevyn
_______________________________________________________________________

Not every love, but only that which has a noble purpose, is noble and worthy of praise.

- Plato (c. 428-348 BC)
_______________________________________________________________________

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Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 10:44:25 -0800
Subject: Re: AudioBooks - Question For Ray
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 10:44:25 -0800
Subject: Re: AudioBooks - Question For Ray
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Saturday, March 2, 2002, at 09:29 AM, MChaloner wrote:

> On Friday, March 1, 2002, at 11:45 PM, Grinim wrote:
> I was just curious what your opinion of AudioBooks was.  I have recently
> become interested in them, But have noticed that you have (as far as I
> can tell) Not released any titles in this format.  Have you thought
> about it?  Or are you against this format?
> Chad Stephens
>
> Rage and Betrayal (I think) were both done as audio. My mother is vision
> impaired, so I like the idea. My big problem is that most of the stuff
> that isn't major bestseller is abridged, and that bugs me.
> Best, R.E.F.
>
>
> Would you ever consider reading one of them yourself if you were
> approached? If not, is there a particular actor or actress you admire
> that you wouldn't mind doing it?
>
I wouldn't do it, because I'm not a good sight reader.  Let's see, as 
far as who I would like, the list is huge, but you can start with 
Anthony Hopkins, James Earl Jones, Ben Kingsly, Stockard Channing, and 
go from there.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 10:46:12 -0800
Subject: Re: Hello!
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Saturday, March 2, 2002, at 09:56 AM, Reidar Høyem wrote:

> Hi everyone!
>
> A little something about me:
> I'm 29 yrs. and I live in Oslo, Norway. Currently unemployed, but I'm
> working on it! Hope no one will be offended by my spelling though... 
> I'll do
> my best.

Welcome.
>
> I've been a REF-fan for about 10 years. Apprentice was the first fantasy
> novel I read after LOTR and The Hobbit. I haven't read the Empire series
> yet, but I'm getting there. Just finished Tear of the Gods and now I'm
> waiting eagerly for the next book in the series. I've heard it will be
> called Crawler. Is this correct, and when can we expect to find it in 
> the
> bookshops?

Nope. Crawler will be the next Krondor book if I get around to writing 
it.  Right now I'm working on Talon of the Silver Hawk, book 1 in the 
Conclave of Shadows.  Murder In LaMut with Joel Rosenberg is out soon in 
the UK.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 10:46:54 -0800
Subject: Re: eh-umm... 
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Saturday, March 2, 2002, at 10:29 AM, Nevyn wrote:

> Whoever used me e-mail address to unsubscribe me from the list please 
> dont do it again :o(
>  
> Thanks,
>               Nevyn
>

Probably no one.  Occasionally for reasons only known to the gods of 
lists, someone gets dropped.  Happened to me twice so far.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.

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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 14:05:15 -0500
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Dan Lorey <dl24@cornell.edu>
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At 02:29 3/3/02 +0800, "Nevyn" <alien4@wasp.net.au> wrote:
>Whoever used me e-mail address to unsubscribe me from the list please dont 
>do it again :o(

  I used your email address to unsubscribe you from the list because 
of that stunt you pulled of posting that dog training manual to the list.
Consider that your first and only warning about that sort of behaviour.

  Dan Lorey - Feistfans-L List Owner



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Subject: Audio books and stuff
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Jonathan Homer" <jchomer@yahoo.co.uk>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Audio books and stuff
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 19:12:16 -0000
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Hi all,

 

Another swift de-lurk from me - I don't think this has been mentioned,
but my Computer went for a burton last night and a few of the messages
from this list that I wanted to digest got duly toasted don't ya
know. So please ignore if this has been mentioned.

 

All this talk of the adaptation of the books, plus any
possible/potential/future movie deals put a thought in my mind. One of
the best adaptation of any book, this is topical, was the radio play
the BBC created of the 'Lord Of The Rings' - don't get me wrong,
enjoyed the film (and this is coming from somebody who lives not a
million miles away from where old JRR based a lot of the stuff in the
books on) - but the radio play (currently finished doing the rounds on
Radio Four) was slightly less abridged (abridged nonetheless - but
you're going to get that moving from medium to medium) and captured a
lot of the magic from the book.

 

Mainly I feel, because no special effects budget can touch the images
in your mind - or I think the 'take' each person has on the character,
actually that's a good discussion point generally (and still related
to the list) can anybody think of a Fantasy type movie (or any movie)
where the film actually can close to the book? The Lord Of The Rings -
almost, almost did - I recently read some of the classic Conan pulp
fiction stuff and that just highlighted the gap between the movies and
the countless spin offs and the original work by Howard.

 

Anyway - before I go wondering completely off track - just wanted to
say that the books, could certainly be portrayed really well in a
'radio play' format.

 

Just my two pennies!

 

Jon 

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Subject: Re: eh-umm... 
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 13:29:10 -0600
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: eh-umm... 
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 13:29:10 -0600
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I thought you had warned him before?  I for one am not feeling very
forgiving at the moment.

-James (who was really un-amused by a huge file to download this
morning)

----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan Lorey" <dl24@cornell.edu>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Saturday, March 02, 2002 1:05 PM
Subject: Re: eh-umm...


> At 02:29 3/3/02 +0800, "Nevyn" <alien4@wasp.net.au> wrote:
> >Whoever used me e-mail address to unsubscribe me from the list please dont
> >do it again :o(
>
>   I used your email address to unsubscribe you from the list because
> of that stunt you pulled of posting that dog training manual to the list.
> Consider that your first and only warning about that sort of behaviour.
>
>   Dan Lorey - Feistfans-L List Owner
>



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Subject: Re: eh-umm... 
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*** EOOH ***
From: RBlackley@aol.com
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 15:33:33 EST
Subject: Re: eh-umm... 
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I see your point is wasn't a very big file to download though, it only took 
the most of 7 seconds?
 from Richard (who is trying hard to spell well)


In a message dated 3/2/2002 2:45:06 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
jajy@earthlink.net writes:


> I thought you had warned him before?  I for one am not feeling very
> forgiving at the moment.
> 
> -James (who was really un-amused by a huge file to download this
> morning)

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Subject: Re: eh-umm... 
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: eh-umm... 
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 14:40:35 -0600
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Hmm, for some reason it came up as 170 K on my system.  I detest any
mailings over 35K.  They slow down my already snail's pace
connection (41K is my norm and I do other things while downloading
mail).  Heaven help those who send me messages in the meg range.
This is the reason I like this list, lots of small easily downloads,
and quickly reviewed messages, no glitz, no wasted time, no junk
(usually).

-James

----- Original Message -----
From: <RBlackley@aol.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Saturday, March 02, 2002 2:33 PM
Subject: Re: eh-umm...


> I see your point is wasn't a very big file to download though, it only took
> the most of 7 seconds?
>  from Richard (who is trying hard to spell well)
>
>
> In a message dated 3/2/2002 2:45:06 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> jajy@earthlink.net writes:
>
>
> > I thought you had warned him before?  I for one am not feeling very
> > forgiving at the moment.
> >
> > -James (who was really un-amused by a huge file to download this
> > morning)
>
>



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To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
References: <85216E7B-2E0D-11D6-9E28-003065A8A644@bittersea.com>
Subject: Re: AudioBooks - Question For Ray
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 20:44:12 -0000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Steve King" <Teamkings@btopenworld.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: AudioBooks - Question For Ray
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 20:44:12 -0000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Hello All

I listened to Tear of the Gods read by Sam Tsoutsouvas, it was a bit of a
challenge to get used to American pronunciation ( Me being English) but on
the whole I thought it did justice to the Book, but I don't think anyone
could narrate a story as well as it sounds in your own mind.
What did you think of it Ray?
A good Narrator in England is Stephen Fry - English Actor - won talkies for
Harry Potter
Cheers
Steve King
----- Original Message -----
From: "Raymond Feist" <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Saturday, March 02, 2002 6:44 PM
Subject: Re: AudioBooks - Question For Ray


>
> On Saturday, March 2, 2002, at 09:29 AM, MChaloner wrote:
>
> > On Friday, March 1, 2002, at 11:45 PM, Grinim wrote:
> > I was just curious what your opinion of AudioBooks was.  I have recently
> > become interested in them, But have noticed that you have (as far as I
> > can tell) Not released any titles in this format.  Have you thought
> > about it?  Or are you against this format?
> > Chad Stephens
> >
> > Rage and Betrayal (I think) were both done as audio. My mother is vision
> > impaired, so I like the idea. My big problem is that most of the stuff
> > that isn't major bestseller is abridged, and that bugs me.
> > Best, R.E.F.
> >
> >
> > Would you ever consider reading one of them yourself if you were
> > approached? If not, is there a particular actor or actress you admire
> > that you wouldn't mind doing it?
> >
> I wouldn't do it, because I'm not a good sight reader.  Let's see, as
> far as who I would like, the list is huge, but you can start with
> Anthony Hopkins, James Earl Jones, Ben Kingsly, Stockard Channing, and
> go from there.
>
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
>
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
> stupidity.
>



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*** EOOH ***
From: RBlackley@aol.com
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 17:54:08 EST
Subject: Re: eh-umm... 
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

In a message dated 3/2/2002 4:03:34 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
jajy@earthlink.net writes:


> Hmm, for some reason it came up as 170 K on my system.  I detest any
> mailings over 35K.  They slow down my already snail's pace
> connection (41K is my norm and I do other things while downloading
> mail).  Heaven help those who send me messages in the meg range.
> This is the reason I like this list, lots of small easily downloads,
> and quickly reviewed messages, no glitz, no wasted time, no junk
> (usually).
> 
> -James

Yeah I agree, but I have AOL, so you don't have to download anything you 
don't want, i.e.ie.  I could read all my e-mail and skip that one, and not 
have to waste time downloading it.  (the fact that I did, allows some to 
debate my intelligence)
From Richard

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To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: my spelling
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 23:16:54 -0000
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*** EOOH ***
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: "Michael Gibson" <mike@gibbyco.freeserve.co.uk>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: my spelling
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 23:16:54 -0000
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

>         I appreciate everyones concern. Yes, I know that there are people
> that find people that care just when it is important apauling. That is
> something I can't help. Now when I sent in a transcript into Bantam Books.
> Yes, I was very  areticulate and presice on all that I could remember from
> school. For that reason they told me if I had it finished by a set date they
> may publish it. I understand that the word may was in it. I also understand
> that a writer's future isn't going to get approved the first time around.

The problem is that what you type into an e-mail is the only way any of us have
an idea who you are.  In "real life", do you read a magazine when you're talking
to someone?  I'm guessing no, as when the person sees you're not paying
attention, they're going to get pissed that you're not putting much effort into
the conversation.

>         I have been told that it was missing that something that the company
> was looking for, or they weren't publishing that kind of book at the moment.
> I was even told it needed more imagination from a company. so I do know that
> everyone is a critic. I know that everyone has an opinion just as everyone
> has an ass. Some of them stink. We all are individuals, and that is what
> makes us all different. Not everyone can be a Bobby Hurley, or Micheal
> Jordan, or in this case a Raymond E. Feist.

Oh dear, you've crossed the line - you spelt "Michael" wrongly... ;)  But
seriously, writing isn't easy - I've toyed with the idea of writing a book, but
firstly I think I'm too young (although I feel my style has improved over that
last couple of years), and secondly writing, like many other things, needs
practice.

>     Now someday if not now I know I will get my short story out there. I am
> not hard a person to get along with. For anyone that is/was in the military
> you know what I mean. Basic training made me an ass, and I will be the first
> to admit it. They don't care about your feelings. They don't care if you are
> sad, or happy. That is how I am. I have always been the type of person that
> if I was told I can't do it I try even harder. Now there are limits. I know
> I can't physically have a child, so why try.

I would disagree - although not in the army myself, 1/3 of the people on my
course are army, some my age, and some officers in their mid-twenties, and
there's only one I'd consider an arse.  My cousin, and another list member I've
met were also both army guys, and they seem normal.  Well, pretty much... ;).

>         Well I really am not trying to sound all mean, but I am not that
> easily hurt and that is from my training in the ARMY.

Life does that to you.  Being in the army may have given you a different slant,
but it's not unique.

> I have found a way to
> turn off my feelings. I know that would make me seem heartless, but hey I am
> who I am. Now get me around my kid and I am a loveing and careing person.
> Other then that I may seem heartless. If that makes me a mean person then
> hey. I am the kind of person that you either like or hate. Much like Howard
> Stern. You either like him or you don't

Again, if all we experience of you are your e-mails, there's only one of the
above options we can adopt.

The thing is, generally you get out off situations what you put into them.  If
you can't be bothered, why should people be bothered about you?

Mike,
Gibfish of the West

"Better to light a candle than to curse the darkness."
Confucius



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From: "James E.Roberts" <jroberts6@vtown.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
References: <26.23f01c66.29b2911d@aol.com> <006801c1c22a$82629bc0$3b96aec7@oemcomputer>
Subject: Re: eh-umm... 
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 10:29:59 +1100
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James E.Roberts" <jroberts6@vtown.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: eh-umm... 
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 10:29:59 +1100
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Mar 2002 23:28:20.0560 (UTC) FILETIME=[F06FB500:01C1C241]
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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I connect at 28.8 Kbps and I barely noticed it. 

I really really really really really hate Telstra.

Jamie

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Sunday, March 03, 2002 7:40 AM
Subject: Re: eh-umm... 


> Hmm, for some reason it came up as 170 K on my system.  I detest any
> mailings over 35K.  They slow down my already snail's pace
> connection (41K is my norm and I do other things while downloading
> mail).  Heaven help those who send me messages in the meg range.
> This is the reason I like this list, lots of small easily downloads,
> and quickly reviewed messages, no glitz, no wasted time, no junk
> (usually).
> 
> -James
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <RBlackley@aol.com>
> To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> Sent: Saturday, March 02, 2002 2:33 PM
> Subject: Re: eh-umm...
> 
> 
> > I see your point is wasn't a very big file to download though, it
> only took
> > the most of 7 seconds?
> >  from Richard (who is trying hard to spell well)
> >
> >
> > In a message dated 3/2/2002 2:45:06 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> > jajy@earthlink.net writes:
> >
> >
> > > I thought you had warned him before?  I for one am not feeling
> very
> > > forgiving at the moment.
> > >
> > > -James (who was really un-amused by a huge file to download this
> > > morning)
> >
> >
> 



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From: "Steven McCarthy" <steven@connect.ie>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: eh-umm... 
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 01:39:24 -0000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Steven McCarthy" <steven@connect.ie>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: eh-umm... 
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 01:39:24 -0000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

It was a 340K mail and simply resulted in a $hitlist filter being applied.
Good move Dan.

You should feel lucky with a 41K connection - I usually get a 31.2K one. But
I'm getting the latest technology installed on Tuesday - ISDN!!! Wow! *G*

I believe our good old Irish telco has heard of broadband but haven't
actually realised that anyone might want it yet.


Steve
One of The Collective
http://learn.at/ahh
"Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then
do it." -- Lazarus Long

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of James Young
> Sent: 02 March 2002 20:41
> To: FEISTFANS-L
> Subject: Re: eh-umm...
>
>
> Hmm, for some reason it came up as 170 K on my system.  I detest any
> mailings over 35K.  They slow down my already snail's pace
> connection (41K is my norm and I do other things while downloading
> mail).  Heaven help those who send me messages in the meg range.
> This is the reason I like this list, lots of small easily downloads,
> and quickly reviewed messages, no glitz, no wasted time, no junk
> (usually).
>
> -James
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <RBlackley@aol.com>
> To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> Sent: Saturday, March 02, 2002 2:33 PM
> Subject: Re: eh-umm...
>
>
> > I see your point is wasn't a very big file to download though, it
> only took
> > the most of 7 seconds?
> >  from Richard (who is trying hard to spell well)
> >
> >
> > In a message dated 3/2/2002 2:45:06 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> > jajy@earthlink.net writes:
> >
> >
> > > I thought you had warned him before?  I for one am not feeling
> very
> > > forgiving at the moment.
> > >
> > > -James (who was really un-amused by a huge file to download this
> > > morning)
> >
> >
>
>
>



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From: "Steven McCarthy" <steven@connect.ie>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: UK Tour
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 01:44:20 -0000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Steven McCarthy" <steven@connect.ie>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: UK Tour
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 01:44:20 -0000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Ray,

Have any venues/cities been confirmed at this stage or will that be much
later than this? Should I start lobbying bookstores in Dublin now?


Steve
One of The Collective
http://learn.at/ahh
"Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then
do it." -- Lazarus Long

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Raymond Feist
> Sent: 30 December 2001 01:38
> To: FEISTFANS-L
> Subject: Re: UK Tour
>
>
>
> On Saturday, December 29, 2001, at 04:17 PM, Damian Dyer wrote:
>

>
> I should be in the UK/Ireland in early September.
>
> Best, R.E.F.
>
> ----
>
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
> stupidity.
>
>
>

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Subject: Re: eh-umm... 
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 11:50:30 +1000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "A Irving" <s355156@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: eh-umm... 
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 11:50:30 +1000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

telstra does suck. I connect at 44.4kbps here, as the phone lines are not
the best quality. I use to connect at 54kbps at my old house. I noticed the
download nad it took a while, but I was paying attention to it. The problem
is that the download was bigger than an email, not really the time it took,
but the download may have wasted peoples money (except in those countries
with timed local calls, then it cost them money aswell)
----- Original Message -----
From: "James E.Roberts" <jroberts6@vtown.com.au>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Sunday, March 03, 2002 9:29 AM
Subject: Re: eh-umm...


> I connect at 28.8 Kbps and I barely noticed it.
>
> I really really really really really hate Telstra.
>
> Jamie
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
> To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> Sent: Sunday, March 03, 2002 7:40 AM
> Subject: Re: eh-umm...
>
>
> > Hmm, for some reason it came up as 170 K on my system.  I detest any
> > mailings over 35K.  They slow down my already snail's pace
> > connection (41K is my norm and I do other things while downloading
> > mail).  Heaven help those who send me messages in the meg range.
> > This is the reason I like this list, lots of small easily downloads,
> > and quickly reviewed messages, no glitz, no wasted time, no junk
> > (usually).
> >
> > -James
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: <RBlackley@aol.com>
> > To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> > Sent: Saturday, March 02, 2002 2:33 PM
> > Subject: Re: eh-umm...
> >
> >
> > > I see your point is wasn't a very big file to download though, it
> > only took
> > > the most of 7 seconds?
> > >  from Richard (who is trying hard to spell well)
> > >
> > >
> > > In a message dated 3/2/2002 2:45:06 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> > > jajy@earthlink.net writes:
> > >
> > >
> > > > I thought you had warned him before?  I for one am not feeling
> > very
> > > > forgiving at the moment.
> > > >
> > > > -James (who was really un-amused by a huge file to download this
> > > > morning)
> > >
> > >
> >
>



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From: "Jason Martin" <res0b95g@verizon.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: OT: Count of Monte Cristo
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 18:26:48 -0800
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Jason Martin" <res0b95g@verizon.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: OT: Count of Monte Cristo
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 18:26:48 -0800
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Well my wife and I finally saw this movie last night and we both Loved it.
We will be getting it on DVD when it comes out.  I don't recall reading the
story at all, but I will probaby sit down with it next month and give it a
whirl.  Great acting and scenery and a hell of a story line too.  Go see it
if you get a chance..

Thanks,
Jason

"Too much knowlege never makes for simple decisions."
                           Ghanima- Children of Dune



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From: "Jason Martin" <res0b95g@verizon.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: OT: A little Marriage and/or couple Humor
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 18:23:45 -0800
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Jason Martin" <res0b95g@verizon.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: OT: A little Marriage and/or couple Humor
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 18:23:45 -0800
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

For all you Married Folks on the list and/or couples, I think you may like
this email.  Please Flame me off the list if you think its uncalled for.

Thanks,

Jason

Subject: How to shower (female vs male)

    If you can get past the crudeness, this will have you rolling on the
floor, laughing so hard that you cry!!!!

How to shower like a woman:

Take off clothing and place it in sectioned laundry hamper according to
lights and darks. Walk into bathroom wearing long dressing gown. If you
see your husband along the way, cover up any exposed areas.

Look at your womanly physique in the mirror--make mental note--must do
more sit-ups. Get in the shower.  Use face cloth, arm cloth, leg cloth,
long loofah, wide loofah, and pumice stone.

Wash your hair once with cucumber and sage shampoo with 43 added
vitamins. wash your hair again to make sure it's clean. Condition your
hair with grapefruit mint conditioner enhanced with natural avocado oil.
leave on hair for 15 minutes. Wash your face with crushed apricot facial
scrub for ten minutes until red. Wash entire rest of body with Ginger Nut
and Jaffa Cake body wash.

Rinse conditioner off hair. (you must make sure that it has all come
off.)  Shave armpits and legs. Consider shaving bikini area, but decide
to get it waxed instead.

Scream loudly when your husband flushes the toilet and you lose the water
pressure. Turn off the shower. Squeegee off all wet surfaces in shower.
Spray mold spots with Tilex.

Get out of shower. Dry with towel the size of a small country. Wrap hair
in super absorbent second towel. Check entire body for the remotest sign
of a zit. Tweeze hairs.

Return to bedroom wearing long dressing gown and towel on head. If you
see your husband along the way, cover up any exposed areas and then
sashay to bedroom to spend an hour and a half getting dressed.


How to shower like a man:

Take off clothes while sitting on the edge of the bed and leave them in a
pile. Walk to the bathroom.

If you see your wife along the way, shake wiener at her making a
"woo-woo" sound. Look at your manly physique in the mirror and suck in
your gut to see if you have pecs. (No.)

Admire the size of your wiener in the mirror and scratch your butt. Fart.

Get in the shower.

Don't bother to look for a washcloth. (You don't use one.)

Wash your face.

Wash your armpits.

Blow your nose in your hands, then let the water just rinse it off.

Crack up at how loud your farts sound in the shower.

Majority of time is spent washing your privates and surrounding area.

Wash your butt, leaving those coarse butt hairs on the soap bar.

Shampoo your hair (do not use conditioner). Make a shampoo Mohawk.

Peek out of the shower to look at yourself in the mirror again.

Pee (in the shower).

Rinse off and get out of the shower. Fail to notice water on the floor
because you left the curtain hanging out of the tub the whole time.

Partially dry off.

Look at yourself in the mirror. Flex muscles. Admire wiener size again.

Leave shower curtain open and wet bath mat on the floor.

Leave bathroom fan and light on.

Return to the bedroom with towel around your waist. If you pass your
wife, pull off towel, shake wiener at her, and make the "woo-woo" sound
again.

Throw wet towel on the bed.

Dress in under two minutes.


"Too much knowlege never makes for simple decisions."
                           Ghanima- Children of Dune



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References: <NGELLDNAEMBGGGHFAJPBAEEDCKAA.mike@gibbyco.freeserve.co.uk>
Subject: I apoligize
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 22:50:27 -0500
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From: "Andrew" <abizet@woh.rr.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: I apoligize
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 22:50:27 -0500
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    I must apoligize. I am not a real big pro basketball fan. Now I would
love to watch college bball all day long. I am and have been a huge Duke fan
for doing on 6 yrs now. My step-dad's name is Micheal and just happens to be
spelled that way so I just assumed that is how Mr. Jordan's name was
spelled. Now as far as officers in the armed forces are concerned. They are
all idiots. For example: At 5 north at Ft. Knox, KY. I once saw on the very
same day  an officer jump off an M1A1 Abram and break is leg. If I
misspelled the tanks name I'm sorry. I was a truck driver. Later that day I
saw another officer lower himself from a Bradley by holding the turret gun
barrel, however there had been arounf 1500 rounds shot from it just minutes
prior to his grabbing it.
    I feel that some people are able to to do multiple things at one time.
Chefs are able to cook more then several different items at one time. So
therefore does it not make sence that one may be able to read an article in
a newspaper or some other peridical and hold a conversation. Yes I do have a
different slant in my outlook in life. that different slant makes me unique
in my own way as your way that you see life makes you unique. We all have
different experiances and outlooks on everything. An example of that is
divorce, as bad as it is now, it is ever growing. Although there are couples
out there that are still married and havent been divorced. I have, I come
from a divorced family, so there in is another way I see life differently
then one person or another. All of our expericences make for a different
future, much like Pug and Thomas.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Gibson" <mike@gibbyco.freeserve.co.uk>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Saturday, March 02, 2002 6:16 PM
Subject: RE: my spelling


> >         I appreciate everyones concern. Yes, I know that there are people
> > that find people that care just when it is important apauling. That is
> > something I can't help. Now when I sent in a transcript into Bantam Books.
> > Yes, I was very  areticulate and presice on all that I could remember from
> > school. For that reason they told me if I had it finished by a set date they
> > may publish it. I understand that the word may was in it. I also understand
> > that a writer's future isn't going to get approved the first time around.
>
> The problem is that what you type into an e-mail is the only way any of us have
> an idea who you are.  In "real life", do you read a magazine when you're talking
> to someone?  I'm guessing no, as when the person sees you're not paying
> attention, they're going to get pissed that you're not putting much effort into
> the conversation.
>
> >         I have been told that it was missing that something that the company
> > was looking for, or they weren't publishing that kind of book at the moment.
> > I was even told it needed more imagination from a company. so I do know that
> > everyone is a critic. I know that everyone has an opinion just as everyone
> > has an ass. Some of them stink. We all are individuals, and that is what
> > makes us all different. Not everyone can be a Bobby Hurley, or Micheal
> > Jordan, or in this case a Raymond E. Feist.
>
> Oh dear, you've crossed the line - you spelt "Michael" wrongly... ;)  But
> seriously, writing isn't easy - I've toyed with the idea of writing a book, but
> firstly I think I'm too young (although I feel my style has improved over that
> last couple of years), and secondly writing, like many other things, needs
> practice.
>
> >     Now someday if not now I know I will get my short story out there. I am
> > not hard a person to get along with. For anyone that is/was in the military
> > you know what I mean. Basic training made me an ass, and I will be the first
> > to admit it. They don't care about your feelings. They don't care if you are
> > sad, or happy. That is how I am. I have always been the type of person that
> > if I was told I can't do it I try even harder. Now there are limits. I know
> > I can't physically have a child, so why try.
>
> I would disagree - although not in the army myself, 1/3 of the people on my
> course are army, some my age, and some officers in their mid-twenties, and
> there's only one I'd consider an arse.  My cousin, and another list member I've
> met were also both army guys, and they seem normal.  Well, pretty much... ;).
>
> >         Well I really am not trying to sound all mean, but I am not that
> > easily hurt and that is from my training in the ARMY.
>
> Life does that to you.  Being in the army may have given you a different slant,
> but it's not unique.
>
> > I have found a way to
> > turn off my feelings. I know that would make me seem heartless, but hey I am
> > who I am. Now get me around my kid and I am a loveing and careing person.
> > Other then that I may seem heartless. If that makes me a mean person then
> > hey. I am the kind of person that you either like or hate. Much like Howard
> > Stern. You either like him or you don't
>
> Again, if all we experience of you are your e-mails, there's only one of the
> above options we can adopt.
>
> The thing is, generally you get out off situations what you put into them. If
> you can't be bothered, why should people be bothered about you?
>
> Mike,
> Gibfish of the West
>
> "Better to light a candle than to curse the darkness."
> Confucius
>
>



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Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 20:42:25 -0800
Subject: Re: UK Tour
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 20:42:25 -0800
Subject: Re: UK Tour
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Saturday, March 2, 2002, at 05:44 PM, Steven McCarthy wrote:

> Ray,
>
> Have any venues/cities been confirmed at this stage or will that be much
> later than this? Should I start lobbying bookstores in Dublin now?
>
>

Nope, nothing yet.  Don't even know if I'm going to Dublin.  Last time 
it was Belfast, and for all I know, next time could be Shanon.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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From: Nathan <nathan@irish4ever.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: English pronunciation (was AudioBooks ...)
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Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 01:48:14 -0800 (PST)
From: Nathan <nathan@irish4ever.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: English pronunciation (was AudioBooks ...)
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Hello!

Being neither American nor Englishman I have problems with
distinguishing different English pronunciations. Can you give me some
examples when the differences are "visible" (audible)?
I read that Liv Tyler had to learn an English accent in order to play
Arwen Undomiel in LOTR. She is lovely by the way. :)

Adieu
Father Nathan



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From: Nathan <nathan@irish4ever.com>
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--- "Jason Martin" <res0b95g@verizon.net> wrote:
>Well my wife and I finally saw this movie last night and we both Loved it. [cut]

What version have you seen? With Richard Chamberlain or Gerard Depardieu?

Greetings
 Father Nathan


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*** EOOH ***
From: "Andrew Scott" <a.sc0tt@attbi.com>
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From: "Nathan" <nathan@irish4ever.com>
> --- "Jason Martin" <res0b95g@verizon.net> wrote:
> >Well my wife and I finally saw this movie last night and we both Loved it. [cut]
>
> What version have you seen? With Richard Chamberlain or Gerard Depardieu?
>
> Greetings
>  Father Nathan

He's referring to the new version with James Caviezel and Guy Pearce
http://us.imdb.com/Title?0245844

Andrew



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From: Reidar Høyem <reidar.hoyem@c2i.net>
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Subject: RE: UK Tour 
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 13:46:09 +0100
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*** EOOH ***
From: Reidar Høyem <reidar.hoyem@c2i.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: UK Tour 
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 13:46:09 +0100
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Ray

What about us loyal fans in Scandinavia? Oslo is mighty nice in the summer!
:)

Reidar

-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Raymond Feist
>Sent: 3. mars 2002 05:42
>To: FEISTFANS-L
>Subject: Re: UK Tour
>
>
>
>On Saturday, March 2, 2002, at 05:44 PM, Steven McCarthy wrote:
>
>> Ray,
>>
>> Have any venues/cities been confirmed at this stage or will that be much
>> later than this? Should I start lobbying bookstores in Dublin now?
>>
>>
>
>Nope, nothing yet.  Don't even know if I'm going to Dublin.  Last time
>it was Belfast, and for all I know, next time could be Shanon.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
>stupidity.
>


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Subject: touring
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Andrew" <abizet@woh.rr.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: touring
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 08:10:55 -0500
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I would love to have the chance to tour the world. The only place that I
have been was France.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Reidar Høyem" <reidar.hoyem@c2i.net>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Sunday, March 03, 2002 7:46 AM
Subject: RE: UK Tour


> Ray
>
> What about us loyal fans in Scandinavia? Oslo is mighty nice in the summer!
> :)
>
> Reidar
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Raymond Feist
> Sent: 3. mars 2002 05:42
> To: FEISTFANS-L
> Subject: Re: UK Tour
>
>
>
> On Saturday, March 2, 2002, at 05:44 PM, Steven McCarthy wrote:
>
> > Ray,
> >
> > Have any venues/cities been confirmed at this stage or will that be much
> > later than this? Should I start lobbying bookstores in Dublin now?
> >
> >
>
> Nope, nothing yet.  Don't even know if I'm going to Dublin.  Last time
> it was Belfast, and for all I know, next time could be Shanon.
>
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
>
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
> stupidity.
>
>



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Subject: Re: English pronunciation (was AudioBooks ...)
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 07:43:09 -0800
Subject: Re: English pronunciation (was AudioBooks ...)
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Sunday, March 3, 2002, at 01:48 AM, Nathan wrote:

> Hello!
>
> Being neither American nor Englishman I have problems with 
> distinguishing different English pronunciations. Can you give me some 
> examples when the differences are "visible" (audible)?
> I read that Liv Tyler had to learn an English accent in order to play 
> Arwen Undomiel in LOTR. She is lovely by the way. :)
>
> Adieu
> Father Nathan
>

It's very hard to generalize past the obvious "he's American" or "she's 
British" differences, because then you get into regional accents.  
Texans don't sound like New Yorkers, and people in Manchester don't 
sound like people in York.  Liv Tyler's accent in LOTR was what I'd call 
a "generic British," a sort of soft, upper class non-specific accent.  
Listen to Bob Hoskin's in Who Framed Roger Rabbit, and you'll hear sort 
of a generic American accent (done very well) by a British actor.  Peter 
Ustinov used to be able to do convincing regional American accents, I 
heard him once speak on the topic and he did very good flat 
midwesterner, Texan, New Yorker, Californian, etc.

There are a couple of general pronunciations (as opposed to accents) 
that spring to mind, Americans say "A-lum-a-num" while the British say 
"Al-u-min-e-um," for aluminum.   Americans say "sked-u-al" and the 
British say "shed-u-al" for schedule.  There are more like that, but 
again, it's sort of secondary to accents, which vary.  There are dozens 
in New York and London, for example, so you can't even generalize about 
a single city.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 07:44:09 -0800
Subject: Re: UK Tour 
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On Sunday, March 3, 2002, at 04:46 AM, Reidar Høyem wrote:

> Ray
>
> What about us loyal fans in Scandinavia? Oslo is mighty nice in the 
> summer!
> :)
>
> Reidar
>

All of that is up to my foreign language publishers.  The only nation 
that sells enough copies of my books outside the English speaking world 
to make a personal appearance worth while, so far, is Holland.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
From: RBlackley@aol.com
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 10:46:56 EST
Subject: Re: eh-umm... 
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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yeah, well i run 500+k dsl so...


In a message dated 3/2/2002 8:59:56 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
steven@connect.ie writes:


> It was a 340K mail and simply resulted in a $hitlist filter being applied.
> Good move Dan.
> 
> You should feel lucky with a 41K connection - I usually get a 31.2K one. 
> But
> I'm getting the latest technology installed on Tuesday - ISDN!!! Wow! *G*
> 
> I believe our good old Irish telco has heard of broadband but haven't
> actually realised that anyone might want it yet.


From Richard

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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 07:47:25 -0800
Subject: Re: touring
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Sunday, March 3, 2002, at 05:10 AM, Andrew wrote:

> I would love to have the chance to tour the world. The only place that I
> have been was France.
>

So would I.

When I tour I see 1) airports 2) airplanes 3) limos, taxis, and cars 4) 
hotel rooms 5) what I can see from the windows of airplanes, limos, 
taxis, cars, and hotel rooms 6) bookstores 7) radio stations 8) 
television stations and 9) restaurants.

The one trip I've had for pleasure in the last ten years was eight days 
in Hawaii last year, which was great.  I'd love to drive the South of 
France (especially Bordeaux).  I'd love to tour Norther Italy.  I'd love 
to spend a week in London when I'm not hitting every bookstore they can 
find.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Subject: Re: OT: Count of Monte Cristo
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*** EOOH ***
From: RBlackley@aol.com
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 10:48:11 EST
Subject: Re: OT: Count of Monte Cristo
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yeah it is a great film

richard


In a message dated 3/2/2002 9:52:16 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
res0b95g@verizon.net writes:


> 
> 
> Well my wife and I finally saw this movie last night and we both Loved it.
> We will be getting it on DVD when it comes out.  I don't recall reading the
> story at all, but I will probaby sit down with it next month and give it a
> whirl.  Great acting and scenery and a hell of a story line too.  Go see it
> if you get a chance..
> 
> Thanks,
> Jason


From Richard

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Subject: Re: UK Tour 
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.> The only nation
> that sells enough copies of my books outside the English speaking world
> to make a personal appearance worth while, so far, is Holland.

Oh no...that cannot be true...what about Germany...my friends and me...we
are buying and buying, german books, english...*sigh...ok...what does it
take:)?



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From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: English pronunciation (was AudioBooks ...)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 00:16:28 +0800
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*** EOOH ***
From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: English pronunciation (was AudioBooks ...)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 00:16:28 +0800
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That is because we here in Australia at least write it as aluminium. I
say aluminum the same way an American would, but if I'm talking about
that product I would normally call it aluminium and pronounce it as
such.

Generally I agree though, there are so many different ways of saying
everything in the English language to comes down to a you say tomAYto
and I say tomARto - although to this day I'm yet to find someone who
actually says potARto.

David

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu 
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Raymond Feist
> Sent: Sunday, 3 March 2002 11:43 PM
> To: FEISTFANS-L
> Subject: Re: English pronunciation (was AudioBooks ...)
> 
> 
> 
<snip>

> There are a couple of general pronunciations (as opposed to accents) 
> that spring to mind, Americans say "A-lum-a-num" while the 
> British say 
> "Al-u-min-e-um," for aluminum.   Americans say "sked-u-al" and the 
> British say "shed-u-al" for schedule.  There are more like that, but 
> again, it's sort of secondary to accents, which vary.  There 
> are dozens 
> in New York and London, for example, so you can't even 
> generalize about 
> a single city.
> 
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
> 
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be 
> explained away by 
> stupidity.
> 



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References: <F559BBCD-2EBD-11D6-9F81-003065A8A644@bittersea.com>
Subject: Re: touring
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 11:18:43 -0500
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Andrew" <abizet@woh.rr.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: touring
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 11:18:43 -0500
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

    I had thr privilage to spend 6 wonderful months in Lyon, France. I got
to see Paris every other week with trips to Dijon and Rio. What was hard for
me at that point in my time of my life was the fact that there at the age of
17 and the beaches was a hrd thing to coptrol. After all men at that age
just have to think to, well you get the idea.
    I regret most that I had to leave. The countryside was so breath taking.
The air was clean. The people were nice, so don't think that french people
are mean people. They can be a little short tempered to americans that just
screw up their french. Well I wasnt that good then, but after 4 months of
french I was talking like a native. I couldn't do it now if I wanted to. You
either use it or lose it.  IF anyone gets the chance to go I whole heartedly
recommand you go.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Raymond Feist" <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Sunday, March 03, 2002 10:47 AM
Subject: Re: touring


>
> On Sunday, March 3, 2002, at 05:10 AM, Andrew wrote:
>
> > I would love to have the chance to tour the world. The only place that I
> > have been was France.
> >
>
> So would I.
>
> When I tour I see 1) airports 2) airplanes 3) limos, taxis, and cars 4)
> hotel rooms 5) what I can see from the windows of airplanes, limos,
> taxis, cars, and hotel rooms 6) bookstores 7) radio stations 8)
> television stations and 9) restaurants.
>
> The one trip I've had for pleasure in the last ten years was eight days
> in Hawaii last year, which was great.  I'd love to drive the South of
> France (especially Bordeaux).  I'd love to tour Norther Italy.  I'd love
> to spend a week in London when I'm not hitting every bookstore they can
> find.
>
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
>
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
> stupidity.
>
>



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From: "MChaloner" <markchaloner@btinternet.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: English pronunciation (was AudioBooks ...)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 16:25:01 -0000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "MChaloner" <markchaloner@btinternet.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: English pronunciation (was AudioBooks ...)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 16:25:01 -0000
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> That is because we here in Australia at least write it as 
> aluminium. I say aluminum the same way an American would, but 
> if I'm talking about that product I would normally call it 
> aluminium and pronounce it as such.
> Generally I agree though, there are so many different ways of 
> saying everything in the English language to comes down to a 
> you say tomAYto and I say tomARto - although to this day I'm 
> yet to find someone who actually says potARto.
> David


Yeah, let's call the whole thing off <laughs>

---
mark ;-)
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
'A man who sees a god in his master, scarcely hopes for paradise'
- Marquis de Custine
markchaloner@btinternet.com



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From: "Michael Gibson" <mike@gibbyco.freeserve.co.uk>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: I apoligize
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 16:59:35 -0000
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*** EOOH ***
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From: "Michael Gibson" <mike@gibbyco.freeserve.co.uk>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: I apoligize
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 16:59:35 -0000
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

>     I must apoligize. I am not a real big pro basketball fan. Now I would
> love to watch college bball all day long. I am and have been a huge Duke fan
> for doing on 6 yrs now. My step-dad's name is Micheal and just happens to be
> spelled that way so I just assumed that is how Mr. Jordan's name was
> spelled.

I know, I was just being silly - lots of people spell my name that way.

> Now as far as officers in the armed forces are concerned. They are
> all idiots. For example: At 5 north at Ft. Knox, KY. I once saw on the very
> same day  an officer jump off an M1A1 Abram and break is leg. If I
> misspelled the tanks name I'm sorry. I was a truck driver. Later that day I
> saw another officer lower himself from a Bradley by holding the turret gun
> barrel, however there had been arounf 1500 rounds shot from it just minutes
> prior to his grabbing it.

I guess there are fools in every institution.  The officers on my course are
from REME (engineers), so they're a sensible bunch.

>     I feel that some people are able to to do multiple things at one time.
> Chefs are able to cook more then several different items at one time. So
> therefore does it not make sence that one may be able to read an article in
> a newspaper or some other peridical and hold a conversation.

I know - I like to listen to music while I work, or read a mag while I watch tv.
But when I talk to someone, I try to give them my attention, otherwise it's not
worth his/her time talking to me, and vice-versa.  The same way, if I'm writing
a message to someone, I don't want to give them the impression that I wasn't
putting much effort into it.

> Yes I do have a
> different slant in my outlook in life. that different slant makes me unique
> in my own way as your way that you see life makes you unique. We all have
> different experiances and outlooks on everything. An example of that is
> divorce, as bad as it is now, it is ever growing. Although there are couples
> out there that are still married and havent been divorced. I have, I come
> from a divorced family, so there in is another way I see life differently
> then one person or another. All of our expericences make for a different
> future, much like Pug and Thomas.

I agree that everyone is unique, but what I meant was that even the most
privileged go through crap in their lives.  And it's your ability to come
through all that crap, and continue to smile that counts.

Mike,
Gibfish of the West

"I hate odd weeks, and don't get me started on Tuesdays..."



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*** EOOH ***
From: RBlackley@aol.com
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 12:26:15 EST
Subject: Re: English pronunciation (was AudioBooks ...)
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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NOw that diffference I did notice, it happens!

In a message dated 3/3/2002 11:28:35 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
wolf@icenet.com.au writes:


> 
> That is because we here in Australia at least write it as aluminium. I
> say aluminum the same way an American would, but if I'm talking about
> that product I would normally call it aluminium and pronounce it as
> such.
> 
> Generally I agree though, there are so many different ways of saying
> everything in the English language to comes down to a you say tomAYto
> and I say tomARto - although to this day I'm yet to find someone who
> actually says potARto.
> 
> David
> 


From Richard

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Subject: officers
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Andrew" <abizet@woh.rr.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: officers
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 12:25:52 -0500
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Well that is alright. We all screw up and if I am not mistaken "To error is
human and to forgive is dinine." The MOS isn't the case. Even though I agree
it doesn't take a lot of brains to tell a few people to get into a sardine
can of a tank and do their job, but even Enegenieers have stupid officers. I
don't know of any part in the armed forces that don't have a few stupid
people with brass on their shoulders.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Gibson" <mike@gibbyco.freeserve.co.uk>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Sunday, March 03, 2002 11:59 AM
Subject: RE: I apoligize


> >     I must apoligize. I am not a real big pro basketball fan. Now I would
> > love to watch college bball all day long. I am and have been a huge Duke fan
> > for doing on 6 yrs now. My step-dad's name is Micheal and just happens to be
> > spelled that way so I just assumed that is how Mr. Jordan's name was
> > spelled.
>
> I know, I was just being silly - lots of people spell my name that way.
>
> > Now as far as officers in the armed forces are concerned. They are
> > all idiots. For example: At 5 north at Ft. Knox, KY. I once saw on the very
> > same day  an officer jump off an M1A1 Abram and break is leg. If I
> > misspelled the tanks name I'm sorry. I was a truck driver. Later that day I
> > saw another officer lower himself from a Bradley by holding the turret gun
> > barrel, however there had been arounf 1500 rounds shot from it just minutes
> > prior to his grabbing it.
>
> I guess there are fools in every institution.  The officers on my course are
> from REME (engineers), so they're a sensible bunch.
>
> >     I feel that some people are able to to do multiple things at one time.
> > Chefs are able to cook more then several different items at one time. So
> > therefore does it not make sence that one may be able to read an article in
> > a newspaper or some other peridical and hold a conversation.
>
> I know - I like to listen to music while I work, or read a mag while I watch tv.
> But when I talk to someone, I try to give them my attention, otherwise it's not
> worth his/her time talking to me, and vice-versa.  The same way, if I'm writing
> a message to someone, I don't want to give them the impression that I wasn't
> putting much effort into it.
>
> > Yes I do have a
> > different slant in my outlook in life. that different slant makes me unique
> > in my own way as your way that you see life makes you unique. We all have
> > different experiances and outlooks on everything. An example of that is
> > divorce, as bad as it is now, it is ever growing. Although there are couples
> > out there that are still married and havent been divorced. I have, I come
> > from a divorced family, so there in is another way I see life differently
> > then one person or another. All of our expericences make for a different
> > future, much like Pug and Thomas.
>
> I agree that everyone is unique, but what I meant was that even the most
> privileged go through crap in their lives.  And it's your ability to come
> through all that crap, and continue to smile that counts.
>
> Mike,
> Gibfish of the West
>
> "I hate odd weeks, and don't get me started on Tuesdays..."
>
>



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Subject: Re: English pronunciation (was AudioBooks ...)
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*** EOOH ***
From: RBlackley@aol.com
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 12:23:48 EST
Subject: Re: English pronunciation (was AudioBooks ...)
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Something weird, I moved from England to America 6 years ago and I never 
noticed a different accent, everyone thought that I had one, but I could not 
hear anyone elses, now when I hear english people  I notice their accents, 
but I guess people around Westchester are accentless


In a message dated 3/3/2002 11:03:47 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
raymond@bittersea.com writes:


> It's very hard to generalize past the obvious "he's American" or "she's 
> British" differences, because then you get into regional accents.  
> Texans don't sound like New Yorkers, and people in Manchester don't 
> sound like people in York.  Liv Tyler's accent in LOTR was what I'd call 
> a "generic British," a sort of soft, upper class non-specific accent.  
> Listen to Bob Hoskin's in Who Framed Roger Rabbit, and you'll hear sort 
> of a generic American accent (done very well) by a British actor.  Peter 
> Ustinov used to be able to do convincing regional American accents, I 
> heard him once speak on the topic and he did very good flat 
> midwesterner, Texan, New Yorker, Californian, etc.
> 
> There are a couple of general pronunciations (as opposed to accents) 
> that spring to mind, Americans say "A-lum-a-num" while the British say 
> "Al-u-min-e-um," for aluminum.   Americans say "sked-u-al" and the 
> British say "shed-u-al" for schedule.  There are more like that, but 
> again, it's sort of secondary to accents, which vary.  There are dozens 
> in New York and London, for example, so you can't even generalize about 
> a single city.
> 
> Best, R.E.F.
> 


From Richard

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Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 09:29:59 -0800
Subject: Re: UK Tour 
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 09:29:59 -0800
Subject: Re: UK Tour 
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Sunday, March 3, 2002, at 08:02 AM, Bastian wrote:

>
> .> The only nation
>> that sells enough copies of my books outside the English speaking world
>> to make a personal appearance worth while, so far, is Holland.
>
> Oh no...that cannot be true...what about Germany...my friends and 
> me...we
> are buying and buying, german books, english...*sigh...ok...what does it
> take:)?
>
>
>
>

What it takes is big enough sales for Goldmann to think it worthwhile to 
fly me over.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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From: "Crisia Ferguson" <cris.ferguson@sympatico.ca>
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Subject: Appearance Question
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Crisia Ferguson" <cris.ferguson@sympatico.ca>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Appearance Question
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 12:57:24 -0500
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Ray,

On the subject of appearances, and for my own personal future reference, do
you do online chat guest appearances?

Crisia Ferguson
----- Original Message -----
From: "Raymond Feist" <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Sunday, March 03, 2002 12:29 PM
Subject: Re: UK Tour


>
> On Sunday, March 3, 2002, at 08:02 AM, Bastian wrote:
>
> >
> > .> The only nation
> >> that sells enough copies of my books outside the English speaking world
> >> to make a personal appearance worth while, so far, is Holland.
> >
> > Oh no...that cannot be true...what about Germany...my friends and
> > me...we
> > are buying and buying, german books, english...*sigh...ok...what does it
> > take:)?
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> What it takes is big enough sales for Goldmann to think it worthwhile to
> fly me over.
>
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
>
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
> stupidity.
>



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From: "Bastian" <Calanthe@abenteuerland.org>
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Subject: Re: UK Tour 
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Bastian" <Calanthe@abenteuerland.org>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: UK Tour 
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 19:04:30 +0100
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Well then it seems hopeless...Goldman is simply to greedy to spend money on
that I fear...or they sell your books for even higher prices than they
already do...:)
Thx...
Bastian
----- Original Message -----
From: "Raymond Feist" <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Sunday, March 03, 2002 6:29 PM
Subject: Re: UK Tour


>
> On Sunday, March 3, 2002, at 08:02 AM, Bastian wrote:
>
> >
> > .> The only nation
> >> that sells enough copies of my books outside the English speaking world
> >> to make a personal appearance worth while, so far, is Holland.
> >
> > Oh no...that cannot be true...what about Germany...my friends and
> > me...we
> > are buying and buying, german books, english...*sigh...ok...what does it
> > take:)?
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> What it takes is big enough sales for Goldmann to think it worthwhile to
> fly me over.
>
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
>
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
> stupidity.
>



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Subject: the touring formula
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Andrew" <abizet@woh.rr.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: the touring formula
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 13:30:56 -0500
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

What is the formula that your manager uses to decide if it is beneficial
for you tour? That is if you are able to say? Is it the number of books
read ratio to time frame books sold? How is that done?

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From: "Dave Curran" <dave@davecurran.demon.co.uk>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Audio Books - Question For Ray
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 18:57:03 -0000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Dave Curran" <dave@davecurran.demon.co.uk>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Audio Books - Question For Ray
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 18:57:03 -0000
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I travel around the country delivering training, which means that I
spend many hours on my own in my car.
When I discovered audio books it was like someone had given me
a boredom relieving gift.

If you spend lots of time driving & have never thought of getting an
audio book then I'd certainly recommend trying it. I was surprised by
the range of titles available.
Some subject matters are indeed more suitable than others.
"A Brief History Of Time", for example, was hard going without any
diagrams or  the time to ponder. [I did have to pause the recording
often to have a think!]

Incidentally, for any of you in the UK. If you go to a Welcome Break
Service station, you can buy an audio tape for £10 and then exchange
it for £3 at any other Welcome break.

...Dave...
Dyslexic and an ex Royal Marines officer... with a spell checker!

PS. Andrew, if you have MS Word, you could write your mail there & then
cut & paste it into your mail program. I find that a simple way to
check for obvious grammar mistakes, and of course it also includes a
spell check.






>I'm also curious about this. Personally I think audio books are great for
>certain subjects that >are far too dry for most people to read like
>macro-economics. It also seems to be a succesful   >meduim for the self help
>category type books (people management, etc.). However, IMHO great! !
>works like all of the books Ray has written thus far are best experienced
>by reading them       >yourself, not having them read to you.

>Randy



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Subject: Re: Audio Books - Question For Ray
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Andrew" <abizet@woh.rr.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Audio Books - Question For Ray
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 14:37:38 -0500
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I agree with you on the audio book there. It is also a very welcome thing
when you are stuck on Grey Hound for 3 days and you have hit a dead air
spot. You know where you get nothing on the radio, and you have listened to
your tapes to often. As far as what word program I am using. I don't know. I
had my cp built for playing video games and surfing the net. I will look
into what is in my system in order to see if there is any hope for my errors
besides having to look into a dicitionary every other word.


----- Original Message -----
>From: "Dave Curran" <dave@davecurran.demon.co.uk>
>To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
>Sent: Sunday, March 03, 2002 1:57 PM
>Subject: RE: Audio Books - Question For Ray
>
>
>
>I travel around the country delivering training, which means that I
>spend many hours on my own in my car.
>When I discovered audio books it was like someone had given me
>a boredom relieving gift.
>
>If you spend lots of time driving & have never thought of getting an
>audio book then I'd certainly recommend trying it. I was surprised by
>the range of titles available.
>Some subject matters are indeed more suitable than others.
>"A Brief History Of Time", for example, was hard going without any
>diagrams or  the time to ponder. [I did have to pause the recording
>often to have a think!]
>
>Incidentally, for any of you in the UK. If you go to a Welcome Break
>Service station, you can buy an audio tape for £10 and then exchange
>it for £3 at any other Welcome break.
>
>...Dave...
>Dyslexic and an ex Royal Marines officer... with a spell checker!
>
>PS. Andrew, if you have MS Word, you could write your mail there & then
>cut & paste it into your mail program. I find that a simple way to
>check for obvious grammar mistakes, and of course it also includes a
>spell check.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>>I'm also curious about this. Personally I think audio books are great for
>certain subjects that >are far too dry for most people to read like
>macro-economics. It also seems to be a succesful   >meduim for the self help
>
>category type books (people management, etc.). However, IMHO great! !
>>works like all of the books Ray has written thus far are best experienced
>by reading them       >yourself, not having them read to you.
>
>>Randy
>


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Subject: Re: Appearance Question
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 11:48:42 -0800
Subject: Re: Appearance Question
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Sunday, March 3, 2002, at 09:57 AM, Crisia Ferguson wrote:

> Ray,
>
> On the subject of appearances, and for my own personal future 
> reference, do
> you do online chat guest appearances?
>

Almost never, unless my publisher insists.  I find them tedious in the 
main, as it usually involves a lot of people sitting around watching 
someone else type slowly.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 11:49:33 -0800
Subject: Re: the touring formula
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 11:49:33 -0800
Subject: Re: the touring formula
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Sunday, March 3, 2002, at 10:30 AM, Andrew wrote:

> What is the formula that your manager uses to decide if it is 
> beneficial for you tour? That is if you are able to say? Is it the 
> number of books read ratio to time frame books sold? How is that done?
>
>

I have no manager.  If you mean my publishers, you'd have to ask them.  
There is no formula, but they do have some sense of how useful it is.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.

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Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 11:47:01 -0800
Subject: Re: English pronunciation (was AudioBooks ...)
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 11:47:01 -0800
Subject: Re: English pronunciation (was AudioBooks ...)
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On Sunday, March 3, 2002, at 09:23 AM, RBlackley@aol.com wrote:

> Something weird, I moved from England to America 6 years ago and I 
> never noticed a different accent, everyone thought that I had one, but 
> I could not hear anyone elses, now when I hear english people  I notice 
> their accents, but I guess people around Westchester are accentless
>

Westchester, where?  Connecticut, California, Pennsylvania?

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.

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Subject: Re: the touring formula
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Andrew" <abizet@woh.rr.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: the touring formula
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 15:18:23 -0500
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I didn't mean to offend you if I did. I just didn't know if you had a
manager or what the case was. It just seems odd that if they would let
you get your face out there so to speak as in a book signing when you
release a new book you would sell more. Hell, if you did that within
an hour drive or so from me I would buy 2 book one to read and one for
the signing. that is me though.
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: Raymond Feist 
>To: FEISTFANS-L 
>Sent: Sunday, March 03, 2002 2:49 PM
>Subject: Re: the touring formula
>
>
>On Sunday, March 3, 2002, at 10:30 AM, Andrew wrote:
>
>
>  What is the formula that your manager uses to decide if it is beneficial for you tour? That is if you are able to say? Is it the number of books read ratio to time frame books sold? How is that done?
>
>
>
>
>I have no manager. If you mean my publishers, you'd have to ask them. There is no formula, but they do have some sense of how useful it is.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by stupidity.

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From: "Crisia Ferguson" <cris.ferguson@sympatico.ca>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
References: <AAA99342-2EDF-11D6-A926-003065A8A644@bittersea.com>
Subject: Re: Appearance Question
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Crisia Ferguson" <cris.ferguson@sympatico.ca>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Appearance Question
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 15:24:39 -0500
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Well I can't argue that one, it can be tedious depending on the questions
and such. I'll make a note to recommend your list to them instead, you are
wonderfully interactive with your fans in this medium. The internet is a
wonderful tool, and as a fan I have to say I was delighted to find you on
here.

Crisia Ferguson
aka An'Thaya D'riel - Amazon Queen
http://pub37.ezboard.com/bcagliostro
~May the forces of evil become confused on the way to your home.~

----- Original Message -----
From: "Raymond Feist" <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Sunday, March 03, 2002 2:48 PM
Subject: Re: Appearance Question


>
> On Sunday, March 3, 2002, at 09:57 AM, Crisia Ferguson wrote:
>
> > Ray,
> >
> > On the subject of appearances, and for my own personal future
> > reference, do
> > you do online chat guest appearances?
> >
>
> Almost never, unless my publisher insists.  I find them tedious in the
> main, as it usually involves a lot of people sitting around watching
> someone else type slowly.
>
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
>
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
> stupidity.
>



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 13:39:29 -0700
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Appearance Question
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Raymond Feist wrote:
> 
> Almost never, unless my publisher insists.  I find them tedious in the
> main, as it usually involves a lot of people sitting around watching
> someone else type slowly.

Ahh well. I've been to a couple of online chat sessions, including one
that was organized by Tracy Hickman called Ecomicon (I think). It was,
geez, 2-3 years ago already, and it was more than a dozen interview
sessions and some gaming tip sessions held over a weekend.

Was an interesting time. Learned that Bob Salvatore played Everquest,
and got more info about Eisenberg's experiences on his playing Nog on
Star Trek: DS9 :)

Craig J. Ries



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 15:13:29 -0800
Subject: Re: the touring formula
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Sunday, March 3, 2002, at 12:18 PM, Andrew wrote:

> I didn't mean to offend you if I did. I just didn't know if you had a 
> manager or what the case was. It just seems odd that if they would let 
> you get your face out there so to speak as in a book signing when you 
> release a new book you would sell more. Hell, if you did that within an 
> hour drive or so from me I would buy 2 book one to read and one for the 
> signing. that is me though.
>

There is nothing logical about the book business.  The simple fact is 
I've done appearances where hundreds have shown up,and others where no 
one shows.  There's no way to predict.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.
>

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> I'd love to drive the South of </DIV><DIV>> France (especially Bordeaux).

<GRIN>

Well, why Bordeaux ? (would it be for the wine ? :)

If you ever come to France, please let me know... I may take the train
just to shake hands and exchange a smile and a couple of words :)

Syl (who prays he won't be down in Istanbul or Jerusalem by the time
Ray make it to France)




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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 17:20:48 -0800
Subject: Re: touring
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On Sunday, March 3, 2002, at 03:21 PM, Sylvain Guehl wrote:

>> I'd love to drive the South of </DIV><DIV>> France (especially 
>> Bordeaux).
>
> <GRIN>
>
> Well, why Bordeaux ? (would it be for the wine ? :)

Right on the first answer!

>
> If you ever come to France, please let me know... I may take the train 
> just to shake hands and exchange a smile and a couple of words :)

If I do, I'll post it on the list.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Date: Mon,  4 Mar 2002 11:28:14 +0100
Subject: Re: touring
From: "Sylvain Guehl" <fenyxkell@demo.xandmail.com>
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> Right on the first answer!

I was about to bet on it but at the last minute I changed my
mail... anyway, I -would- have won my bet ;)

> If I do, I'll post it on the list.

Even if just for private holidays ?

Well I wish I could forsee your trip date (if any) and check the list
more often around that period of time (I don't check the list so often
and I'm afraid to miss it someday ;op) . Anyway, mea culpa (mais si,
elle coule (french joke)))

Syl.
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Subject: Maîtresse de l'Empire
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Date: Mon,  4 Mar 2002 11:34:46 +0100
Subject: Maîtresse de l'Empire
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Hi all.

La Reine Noire, the french editor or Ray's books, has published 6
translations up to now :

Pug l'Apprenti (Magician aprentice)
Milamber, Le Mage (Magician master)
Silverthorn (...well, the translator didn't work so much on it I guess)
Ténebres sur Sethanon (A Darkness at Sethanon)

Fille de l'Empire (Daughter of the Empire)
Pair de l'Empire (Servant of the Empire)

It's been more than a year almost since the publishment of "Pair de
l'Empire". The publisher uses to work very quickly and the translation
were very good, almost two a year, but Mistress hasn't been
translated/published since (in fact, nothing, not even Prince de Sang
(Prince of the Blood)).

Well, I'm still waiting for the translations of the last book of the
Empire Trilogy so that I may at last offer it to my younger brother
who is impatient to read the end of the trilogy. But even the website
of this publisher hadn't been updated for almost a year and I just
fear the project is dead.

Does anyone know (Ray ? John ? someone ?) if there is a french
translation of MOE under work ? and/or what happened with La Reine
Noire ?

Thanks

Syl
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Donal K. Fellows" <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Audio Books - Question For Ray
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 10:42:48 +0000
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"Dave Curran" <dave@davecurran.demon.co.uk>
> "A Brief History Of Time", for example, was hard going without any
> diagrams or  the time to ponder. [I did have to pause the recording
> often to have a think!]

Much of the stuff in that book isn't too easy even with the diagrams
unless you've already mastered the art of visualising four-dimensional
objects in your head.  <g>

(My current favourite audiotape for in-car listening is the original
radio version of _The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy_.  Marvellous.)

Donal.
-- 
Donal K. Fellows, Department of Computer Science, University of Manchester, UK.
(work) fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk     Tel: +44-161-275-6137  (preferred email addr.)
(home) donal@ugglan.demon.co.uk  Tel: +44-1274-401017   Mobile: +44-7957-298955
http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~fellowsd/  (Don't quote my .sig; I've seen it before!)



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Hi Ray and the list.

I was just wondering when it is decided what cover art will be used for a book.

Coz' IIRC, the cover art for Murder in Lamut was up on amazon.co.uk quite 
quickly after they gave a release date.

Just something that popped into my head.

Regards,
Kenneth Jones



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I wonder, do your publishers count all editions of your books for that 
statistic or just local translations. They might be ignoring the english 
language imports to Germany or osme other places (though the Dutch seem 
to be fluent in english as well).

I always prefer to read a book in it's original language (some 
translators are good and manage to save the spirit of a book through 
translation, but most can't do that). Of course that only works for the 
languages I know.

Marc aka Caran...

P.S.: I write fiction in english, pamplets in french and other political 
material in german by teh way. I have a certain feeling for each 
language, what it's best used for etc.

Bastian wrote:

>.> The only nation
>
>>that sells enough copies of my books outside the English speaking world
>>to make a personal appearance worth while, so far, is Holland.
>>
>
>Oh no...that cannot be true...what about Germany...my friends and me...we
>are buying and buying, german books, english...*sigh...ok...what does it
>take:)?
>
>




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From: Kervyn Cloete <murf_seed@yahoo.com>
Subject: greater and lesser paths
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Ray, exactly what are the main differences between the
greater and lesser paths of magic.
Is it in the way that the magic is learned or is it in
the way it's implemented.
I would be really grateful if u could dispel a bit of
my confusion.

-Kervyn Cloete

"All your base are belong to us!"

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - sign up for Fantasy Baseball
http://sports.yahoo.com



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From: Kenneth Jones <killkenny@thos.co.za>
Subject: Cover art
In-Reply-To: <20020304123048.99629.qmail@web10706.mail.yahoo.com>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 14:42:17 +0200
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Kenneth Jones <killkenny@thos.co.za>
Subject: Cover art
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Hi Ray and the list.

I was just wondering. When is it decided what cover art will be used for a 
book?

Coz' IIRC, the cover art for Murder in Lamut was up on amazon.co.uk quite 
quickly after they gave a release date.

Just something that popped into my head.

Regards,
Kenneth Jones



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Subject: Dramatic Price Drop for Honoured Enemy
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 00:07:10 +1100
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Alex Loke" <nerf@alphalink.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Dramatic Price Drop for Honoured Enemy
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 00:07:10 +1100
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Hey All,

Hardbacks for Honoured Enemy have gone down much in price to AU$9.95.(Angus
& Robertson).

Just wondering if this drop is the trend world-wide. I know it's usual for
hardbacks to do so after a few months, but I thought this was a little
sudden - but not knowing sales figures etc, I'm curious.

Regards,

Alex Loke
nerf@alphalink.com.au

<INSERT WITTY LINE HERE>



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From: "Henrik Grotle" <henrik@arasoft.no>
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Subject: Honoured Enemy (How do you pronounce....)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 14:21:19 +0100
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Henrik Grotle" <henrik@arasoft.no>
To: <feistfans-l@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Honoured Enemy (How do you pronounce....)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 14:21:19 +0100
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

First of all, Ray, if you read this; thanks for a GREAT book, just finished
Honoured Enemy and it was well worth having it shipped from the UK! There is
one thing I'm wondering about though (and guys, please don't flame me if
this has been asked already). Ok here's the question: How do you pronounce
Asayaga? I read it like Ah-Sah-Ya-Gah, is that correct?

Henrik.



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Subject: Re: Dramatic Price Drop for Honoured Enemy
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 21:26:38 +0800
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Nevyn" <alien4@wasp.net.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Dramatic Price Drop for Honoured Enemy
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 21:26:38 +0800
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I got mine for that price 3months ago in A&R



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From: "Cameron Duncan" <cduncan@atinera.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Dramatic Price Drop for Honoured Enemy
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 23:30:21 +1000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Cameron Duncan" <cduncan@atinera.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Dramatic Price Drop for Honoured Enemy
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 23:30:21 +1000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I think you will find that the Australian Trade Paperback (large size
paperback)
has just been released.  This usually drops the price as stores try and sell
off
the hardback stock.

back to lurking....

Cameron
Brisbane Australia


> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Alex Loke
> Sent: Monday, March 04, 2002 23:07
> To: FEISTFANS-L
> Subject: Dramatic Price Drop for Honoured Enemy
>
>
> Hey All,
>
> Hardbacks for Honoured Enemy have gone down much in price to
> AU$9.95.(Angus
> & Robertson).
>
> Just wondering if this drop is the trend world-wide. I know it's usual for
> hardbacks to do so after a few months, but I thought this was a little
> sudden - but not knowing sales figures etc, I'm curious.
>
> Regards,
>
> Alex Loke
> nerf@alphalink.com.au
>
> <INSERT WITTY LINE HERE>
>
>



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From: "David Gardner" <taffyd@sydmud.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020304144108.00a6da40@elvandar.thos.co.za> <008901c1c37d$829adcc0$0c66a1ca@alexloke>
Subject: Re: Dramatic Price Drop for Honoured Enemy
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 00:46:26 +1100
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*** EOOH ***
From: "David Gardner" <taffyd@sydmud.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Dramatic Price Drop for Honoured Enemy
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 00:46:26 +1100
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

> Hardbacks for Honoured Enemy have gone down much in price to AU$9.95.(Angus
> & Robertson).
>
> Just wondering if this drop is the trend world-wide. I know it's usual for
> hardbacks to do so after a few months, but I thought this was a little
> sudden - but not knowing sales figures etc, I'm curious.
>
> Alex Loke
> nerf@alphalink.com.au

I managed to pick mine up last week from a "Basement Discount" book
warehouse in Sydney for $12.  When I was in another bookstore yesterday, I
saw that the Trade Paperback version had just been released (at full price).
Presumably, the publisher wants to clear all of the hard back versions so
that they can push the trade paperback one, then have a break for a few
months while they ready the mass-market paperback version for release. I
know that often (always?) bookstores return unsold books to the publisher,
who then ships them off to other "clearance avenues".

This is my first post to the list,  I've read through some of the more
recent (and some of the extremely old archives :)) and lurked for a bit, so
hello! My spelling and grammar's not too atrocious, so hopefully I won't
step on too many toes. ;)

David
PS: As I finish this, I see Nevyn's reply about getting for $10 months ago.
That's pretty good! I keep an eye out for bargains, but in my local A&R,
it's been $30ish until recently.



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References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020304144108.00a6da40@elvandar.thos.co.za> <008901c1c37d$829adcc0$0c66a1ca@alexloke>
Subject: Re: Dramatic Price Drop for Honoured Enemy
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 08:48:59 -0500
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Andrew" <abizet@woh.rr.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Dramatic Price Drop for Honoured Enemy
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 08:48:59 -0500
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I know. I went there and i really wanted to get it, but for me to get it I
would have to pay a twenty dollar shipping fee. So I will se how things go
for now before i pay $20 for someone to mail me a book
----- Original Message -----
From: "Alex Loke" <nerf@alphalink.com.au>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Monday, March 04, 2002 8:07 AM
Subject: Dramatic Price Drop for Honoured Enemy


> Hey All,
>
> Hardbacks for Honoured Enemy have gone down much in price to AU$9.95.(Angus
> & Robertson).
>
> Just wondering if this drop is the trend world-wide. I know it's usual for
> hardbacks to do so after a few months, but I thought this was a little
> sudden - but not knowing sales figures etc, I'm curious.
>
> Regards,
>
> Alex Loke
> nerf@alphalink.com.au
>
> <INSERT WITTY LINE HERE>
>
>



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Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 06:58:36 -0800
Subject: Re: Maîtresse de l'Empire
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 06:58:36 -0800
Subject: Re: Maîtresse de l'Empire
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Monday, March 4, 2002, at 02:34 AM, Sylvain Guehl wrote:

> Hi all.
>  
> La Reine Noire, the french editor or Ray's books, has published 6 
> translations up to now :
>  
> Pug l'Apprenti (Magician aprentice)
> Milamber, Le Mage (Magician master)
> Silverthorn (...well, the translator didn't work so much on it I guess)
> Ténebres sur Sethanon (A Darkness at Sethanon)
>  
> Fille de l'Empire (Daughter of the Empire)
> Pair de l'Empire (Servant of the Empire)
>  
> It's been more than a year almost since the publishment of "Pair de 
> l'Empire". The publisher uses to work very quickly and the translation 
> were very good, almost two a year, but Mistress hasn't been 
> translated/published since (in fact, nothing, not even Prince de Sang 
> (Prince of the Blood)).
>  
> Well, I'm still waiting for the translations of the last book of the 
> Empire Trilogy so that I may at last offer it to my younger brother who 
> is impatient to read the end of the trilogy. But even the website of 
> this publisher hadn't been updated for almost a year and I just fear 
> the project is dead.
>  
> Does anyone know (Ray ? John ? someone ?) if there is a french 
> translation of MOE under work ? and/or what happened with La Reine 
> Noire ?
>

All we know is they buy rights, and then publish on their own schedule.  
Remember, they're also publishing a lot of other authors, so it may just 
be a question of resources.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 06:59:32 -0800
Subject: Re: Book covers
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 06:59:32 -0800
Subject: Re: Book covers
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Monday, March 4, 2002, at 03:08 AM, Kenneth Jones wrote:

> Hi Ray and the list.
>
> I was just wondering when it is decided what cover art will be used for 
> a book.
>
> Coz' IIRC, the cover art for Murder in Lamut was up on amazon.co.uk 
> quite quickly after they gave a release date.
>
> Just something that popped into my head.
>

As soon as they can, usually.  Often they commission a cover when they 
have only a chapter or two.  I've had several covers done from a bit I 
wrote up for the art department.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 07:01:11 -0800
Subject: Re: UK Tour
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 07:01:11 -0800
Subject: Re: UK Tour
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Monday, March 4, 2002, at 04:23 AM, Caranorn Aglaredhel wrote:

> I wonder, do your publishers count all editions of your books for that 
> statistic or just local translations. They might be ignoring the 
> english language imports to Germany or osme other places (though the 
> Dutch seem to be fluent in english as well).
>
> I always prefer to read a book in it's original language (some 
> translators are good and manage to save the spirit of a book through 
> translation, but most can't do that). Of course that only works for the 
> languages I know.
>
> Marc aka Caran...
>
> P.S.: I write fiction in english, pamplets in french and other 
> political material in german by teh way. I have a certain feeling for 
> each language, what it's best used for etc.
>

My foreign language publishers have no interest in how many English 
editions are sold in their market, except as it negatively impacts their 
own sales.  They certainly aren't going to fly me over to sign another 
publisher's copies. <g>

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 06:57:27 -0800
Subject: Re: touring
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Monday, March 4, 2002, at 02:28 AM, Sylvain Guehl wrote:

> > Right on the first answer!
>  
> I was about to bet on it but at the last minute I changed my mail... 
> anyway, I -would- have won my bet ;)
>  
> > If I do, I'll post it on the list.
>  
> Even if just for private holidays ?

No, actually.  Private holidays are private.  If I'm traveling for 
pleasure it's either with my children or a young lady or both, and I 
won't let business in any form intrude with that.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 07:02:47 -0800
Subject: Re: greater and lesser paths
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 07:02:47 -0800
Subject: Re: greater and lesser paths
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Monday, March 4, 2002, at 04:30 AM, Kervyn Cloete wrote:

> Ray, exactly what are the main differences between the
> greater and lesser paths of magic.
> Is it in the way that the magic is learned or is it in
> the way it's implemented.
> I would be really grateful if u could dispel a bit of
> my confusion.
>

Very complex question.

Let me sum up by saying, Greater Path is 100% "mental," i.e. the 
magician reaches out and takes charge of Nakor's "stuff" and works it 
around.  How much/little he/she can get out of it is a function of 
talent.

Lesser Path's are more like shamans.  They use their own bodies, 
objects, other creatures, etc. to channel the magic.

That's the best I can do in a short answer.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 07:03:36 -0800
Subject: Re: Dramatic Price Drop for Honoured Enemy
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 07:03:36 -0800
Subject: Re: Dramatic Price Drop for Honoured Enemy
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Monday, March 4, 2002, at 05:07 AM, Alex Loke wrote:

> Hey All,
>
> Hardbacks for Honoured Enemy have gone down much in price to 
> AU$9.95.(Angus
> & Robertson).
>
> Just wondering if this drop is the trend world-wide. I know it's usual 
> for
> hardbacks to do so after a few months, but I thought this was a little
> sudden - but not knowing sales figures etc, I'm curious.
>
> Regards,
>
> Alex Loke
> nerf@alphalink.com.au
>
> <INSERT WITTY LINE HERE>
>
>
>
>

The books are being "remaindered" i.e. prices dropped, because the trade 
paperback edition is shipping, and usually hardcover sales die when the 
paperback comes out.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 07:04:22 -0800
Subject: Re: Honoured Enemy (How do you pronounce....)
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 07:04:22 -0800
Subject: Re: Honoured Enemy (How do you pronounce....)
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On Monday, March 4, 2002, at 05:21 AM, Henrik Grotle wrote:

> First of all, Ray, if you read this; thanks for a GREAT book, just 
> finished
> Honoured Enemy and it was well worth having it shipped from the UK! 
> There is
> one thing I'm wondering about though (and guys, please don't flame me if
> this has been asked already). Ok here's the question: How do you 
> pronounce
> Asayaga? I read it like Ah-Sah-Ya-Gah, is that correct?
>

A-say-a-ga.  Just like it's spelled. That's pretty much the rule for all 
Tsurani names.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Subject: Re: Dramatic Price Drop for Honoured Enemy
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 04:09:30 +1100
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*** EOOH ***
From: "David Gardner" <taffyd@sydmud.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Dramatic Price Drop for Honoured Enemy
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 04:09:30 +1100
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----- Original Message -----
From: "David Gardner" <taffyd@sydmud.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2002 12:46 AM
Subject: Re: Dramatic Price Drop for Honoured Enemy

<snips own post>
--

Ouch.  Took 4 hours for my mail to show up here.  I was beginning to think
I'd done something 'orribly wrong. :)

David.



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*** EOOH ***
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Honoured Enemy (How do you pronounce....)
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hmmmm....Kinda like the cheese.... ;-)
--- On Mon 03/04, Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com> wrote:
> 
> On Monday, March 4, 2002, at 05:21 AM, Henrik Grotle wrote:
> 
> > First of all, Ray, if you read this; thanks for a GREAT book, just 
> > finished
> > Honoured Enemy and it was well worth having it shipped from the UK! 
> > There is
> > one thing I'm wondering about though (and guys, please don't flame me
> if
> > this has been asked already). Ok here's the question: How do you 
> > pronounce
> > Asayaga? I read it like Ah-Sah-Ya-Gah, is that correct?
> >
> 
> A-say-a-ga.  Just like it's spelled. That's pretty much the rule for all 
> Tsurani names.
> 
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
> 
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
> stupidity.
> 
> 

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From: "Nevyn" <alien4@wasp.net.au>
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Subject: Roldem
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Nevyn" <alien4@wasp.net.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Roldem
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 02:35:44 +0800
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Are we going to get a chance to explore the Kingdom of Roldem in one
of your upcoming texts, Ray?

Thanks,
              Nevyn
_______________________________________________________________________

Not every love, but only that which has a noble purpose, is noble and
worthy of praise.
 
- Plato (c. 428-348 BC)
_______________________________________________________________________

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From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: what is important?
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 18:42:25 +0000
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: what is important?
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At 10:55 PM 3/1/02, Andrew wrote:
>However, if a person
>lives their life trying to please everyone elses desires then they are in
>for a miserable existance.

Hi Andrew,

I've not had my say yet, so I'll throw it in now.

I don't try and live my life, trying to please everyone else.  Mostly,
I ignore everyone else.  

One place I don't ignore everyone is on this list, because it would be
silly to subscribe to a list, and then ignore everyone.  

If you don't pay attention to your spelling, your grammer, your writing
skills, then you annoy people.  People who are annoyed on email lists
have two options:  Flame or Filter.  The flames have been around (nothing
too over the top I'm happy to see <-- long-time list members will note
the irony), but since filters are 'stealth' as it were, you don't have
any idea about how many members simply no longer see your posts.

You've tried to use your childhood, and having served in (still
serving in?) the Army.  While those two can be rather traumatic,
they can also be excellent learning opportunities.  I know I
survived both my childhood (which ended at my nervous breakdown 
at 15) and the Army.  The two led to my being cynical more than
anything else.  I hear that in the tone of your recent posts, also.

One thing I will say about your Army comments, directly:  The 
motivation of your DIs is a bit different from what you said.
If they didn't care about your feelings, then they and I would
have had some informal sessions to find out why they felt that
your feelings (specifically, and any other trainees feelings in
general) were immaterial to the job at hand.  That job being
to turn you into a soldier.  But I would have had sessions with
you also, to find out why you felt that they should care in the
first place.  I'm speaking from direct experience, both as a 
trainee (Ft. Knox, KY) when I enlisted, and as the executive 
officer of a basic training company, after getting my commission.

>    How would people in general live their life if they if they took
>everything to heart and got all bent out of shape at the slightest bit of
>critism. If I took every bit of critisism to heart when I received all those
>rejection letters I would have dropped the dream of getting a short story
>out there in the public and dug my grave just so they could bury me. 

 From the types of quotes that you gave from your rejection notices,
it sounds more like you just hit the wrong publishers at the wrong
times.  Being told "this isn't the type of novel/story/length/etc
that we are concentrating on at the moment..." means just that.  They
have no reason to /lie/ to you.  Once you find a publisher that has
gotten /beyond/ the realities of how your story matches their
current requirements, that's when you need to start worrying about
critique.  Being told that your story doesn't have enough
imagination in it, doesn't mean that it was a bad story or that
you are a bad story-teller.

> Constantaly cutting people down to make yourself feel good, or
>trying to assist someone in bettering themselves?

Um.  The people on the list have not been 'cutting [you] down
to make themselves feel good'.  They have been trying to assist
someone (you) in bettering themselves.  It just sounds like you've 
taken it from the more adversarial point of view.

If you want to talk about this more, off-line, you can email
me directly at richard.williamson@windriver.com, and we can
try to work through the issues.

Richard Williamson
1LT, Armor
USAR (Inactive)




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Subject: Other books?
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Ray,

what books do recommend; after all I've finished all of yours...

I've tried Steven Erikson (wandering storyline that pulls together at the
ed)

James Barclay (straight forward "party" adventure at fast pace)

Robert Jordan (when will it end?)

JV Jones (well-balanced)

Any recommendations?

Terence



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Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 10:49:02 -0800
Subject: Re: Honoured Enemy (How do you pronounce....)
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 10:49:02 -0800
Subject: Re: Honoured Enemy (How do you pronounce....)
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Monday, March 4, 2002, at 10:06 AM, "" <aragon127@excite.com> wrote:

> hmmmm....Kinda like the cheese.... ;-)

Not entirely.  The cheese is "A-see-AH-go, with that emphasis on the 2nd 
to last syllable that Italians (and Spanish, and Portuguese) have.  
There's no emphasis on any one syllable in Asayaga.


Best, R.E.F.


> --- On Mon 03/04, Raymond Feist  wrote:
> >
> > On Monday, March 4, 2002, at 05:21 AM, Henrik Grotle wrote:
> >
> > > First of all, Ray, if you read this; thanks for a GREAT book, just
> > > finished
> > > Honoured Enemy and it was well worth having it shipped from the UK!
> > > There is
> > > one thing I'm wondering about though (and guys, please don't flame 
> me
> > if
> > > this has been asked already). Ok here's the question: How do you
> > > pronounce
> > > Asayaga? I read it like Ah-Sah-Ya-Gah, is that correct?
> > >
> >
> > A-say-a-ga. Just like it's spelled. That's pretty much the rule for 
> all
> > Tsurani names.
> >
> > Best, R.E.F.
> > ----
> >
> > Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
> > stupidity.
> >
> >
>

>
>
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.

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Subject: Re: Roldem
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Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 10:49:20 -0800
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On Monday, March 4, 2002, at 10:35 AM, Nevyn wrote:

> Are we going to get a chance to explore the Kingdom of Roldem in one of 
> your upcoming texts, Ray?
>  
>

You'll see some of that kingdom in the next book.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.

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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 19:12:27 +0000
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From: John <john@crydee.com>
Subject: Re: Re: Maîtresse de l'Empire
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Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com> writes
>>  
>> Does anyone know (Ray ? John ? someone ?) if there is a french 
>>translation of MOE under work ? and/or what happened with La Reine 
>>Noire ?
>>
>
>All we know is they buy rights, and then publish on their own schedule. 
>Remember, they're also publishing a lot of other authors, so it may 
>just be a question of resources.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>----

 From Rays French Editor

We have released the Empire trilogy, with the third one being out for 
this winter.

Hope that helps :)

-- 
John

john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.

Raymond E Feist Ring
http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 19:25:43 +0000
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: John <john@crydee.com>
Subject: Re: Honoured Enemy (How do you pronounce....)
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Henrik Grotle <henrik@arasoft.no> writes
>First of all, Ray, if you read this; thanks for a GREAT book, just finished
>Honoured Enemy and it was well worth having it shipped from the UK! There is
>one thing I'm wondering about though (and guys, please don't flame me if
>this has been asked already). Ok here's the question: How do you pronounce
>Asayaga? I read it like Ah-Sah-Ya-Gah, is that correct?
>
>Henrik.
>
>
For pronunciation information for this book, you can find details at

http://www.crydee.com/feist/world/pro/proindex.htm

select Honoured Enemy, all other titles are work in progress, that is 
nothing there :)
-- 
John

john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.

Raymond E Feist Ring
http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm



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From: "MChaloner" <markchaloner@btinternet.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Other books?
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 19:34:30 -0000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "MChaloner" <markchaloner@btinternet.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Other books?
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 19:34:30 -0000
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> Ray,
> what books do recommend; after all I've finished all of yours...
> I've tried Steven Erikson (wandering storyline that pulls 
> together at the
> ed)
> James Barclay (straight forward "party" adventure at fast pace)
> Robert Jordan (when will it end?)
> JV Jones (well-balanced)
> Any recommendations?
> Terence


Well I'm not Ray ("obviously"), but as I know he doesn't read a lot of
fantasy (if at all), I thought I'd give you my twopenneth worth.
Two authors who immediately spring to mind (who just coincidentally
happen to be British), are Roger Taylor and Jonathan Wylie. I'd HIGHLY
recommend them both.

---
mark ;-)
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
'A man who sees a god in his master, scarcely hopes for paradise'
- Marquis de Custine
markchaloner@btinternet.com



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*** EOOH ***
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Other books?
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: "" <aragon127@excite.com>
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If you haven't read Lord of the Rings or The Hobbit by J.R.R. Tolkien,
stop what you're doing, stand up, walk out the door and buy them RIGHT
NOW. CS Lewis has some great books. If you're into SCI-FI his SCI-FI
series is good. His fantasy books are more geered towards the younger
crowd, but still good. George RR Martin is another of my favorite
authors, I'd recommend him. If you're into horror, pickup some
H.P. Lovecraft and you won't regret it. Hitchhikers Guide to the
Galaxy is quite possibly the funniest book ever written. If you're in
the states you can join science fiction book clubs,
http://www.sfbc.com they have a large amount of fantasy books that can
be bought cheaply. You can order a bunch of books from them until you
find an author you like(that's how I came upon REF).

--- On Mon 03/04, MChaloner <markchaloner@btinternet.com> wrote:
> > Ray,
> > what books do recommend; after all I've finished all of yours...
> > I've tried Steven Erikson (wandering storyline that pulls 
> > together at the
> > ed)
> > James Barclay (straight forward "party" adventure at fast
> pace)
> > Robert Jordan (when will it end?)
> > JV Jones (well-balanced)
> > Any recommendations?
> > Terence
> 
> 
> Well I'm not Ray ("obviously"), but as I know he doesn't read a
> lot of
> fantasy (if at all), I thought I'd give you my twopenneth worth.
> Two authors who immediately spring to mind (who just coincidentally
> happen to be British), are Roger Taylor and Jonathan Wylie. I'd HIGHLY
> recommend them both.
> 
> ---
> mark ;-)
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> 'A man who sees a god in his master, scarcely hopes for paradise'
> - Marquis de Custine
> markchaloner@btinternet.com
> 
> 

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Subject: Re: Other books?
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 12:43:59 -0800
Subject: Re: Other books?
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On Monday, March 4, 2002, at 10:45 AM, Tan, Liwen wrote:

>
> Ray,
>
> what books do recommend; after all I've finished all of yours...
>
> I've tried Steven Erikson (wandering storyline that pulls together at 
> the
> ed)
>
> James Barclay (straight forward "party" adventure at fast pace)
>
> Robert Jordan (when will it end?)
>
> JV Jones (well-balanced)
>
> Any recommendations?
>
> Terence
>
>
>
>

Among current authors?  No.  For social/political reasons.

Among dead authors?

Rafael Sabatini, Robert Louis Stevenson, Alexandre Dumas, Sir Walter 
Scott, Mark Twain, Samuel Shellenbarger, Rosemarry Sutcliff, Mary 
Renault, Thomas Costain,  Harper Lee, and those are just the ones off 
the top of my head.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Subject: Re: Other books?
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Andrew" <abizet@woh.rr.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
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Some of them names sound fimiliar. I can't really say the names of the
authors mean anything to me. That is because if the fact that I havent
really read to many book other then Raymond's books. I have,however, read
The Hobbit. I even have it in audio book.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Raymond Feist" <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Monday, March 04, 2002 3:43 PM
Subject: Re: Other books?


>
> On Monday, March 4, 2002, at 10:45 AM, Tan, Liwen wrote:
>
> >
> > Ray,
> >
> > what books do recommend; after all I've finished all of yours...
> >
> > I've tried Steven Erikson (wandering storyline that pulls together at
> > the
> > ed)
> >
> > James Barclay (straight forward "party" adventure at fast pace)
> >
> > Robert Jordan (when will it end?)
> >
> > JV Jones (well-balanced)
> >
> > Any recommendations?
> >
> > Terence
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> Among current authors?  No.  For social/political reasons.
>
> Among dead authors?
>
> Rafael Sabatini, Robert Louis Stevenson, Alexandre Dumas, Sir Walter
> Scott, Mark Twain, Samuel Shellenbarger, Rosemarry Sutcliff, Mary
> Renault, Thomas Costain,  Harper Lee, and those are just the ones off
> the top of my head.
>
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
>
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
> stupidity.
>
>



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Subject: Re: English pronunciation (was AudioBooks ...)
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 21:41:14 +0000
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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At 03:43 PM 3/3/02, Raymond Feist wrote:
>Peter Ustinov used to be able to do convincing regional American 
>accents, I heard him once speak on the topic and he did very good 
>flat midwesterner, Texan, New Yorker, Californian, etc.

For the record, he also speaks his native Russian, as well as German.
A very interesting chap, is Mr. Ustinov.

rip



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Subject: RE: English pronunciation (was AudioBooks ...)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 21:46:35 -0000
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In Bristol (UK) it tends to be TomOTto.

Further more, idea becomes ideal, etceteral etceteral etceteral!

BJS

PS - Let's call the whole thing off :-)

-----Original Message-----
>From: David Pengelley [mailto:wolf@icenet.com.au]
>Sent: 03 March 2002 16:16
>To: FEISTFANS-L
>Subject: RE: English pronunciation (was AudioBooks ...)
>
>
>That is because we here in Australia at least write it as aluminium. I
>say aluminum the same way an American would, but if I'm talking about
>that product I would normally call it aluminium and pronounce it as
>such.
>
>Generally I agree though, there are so many different ways of saying
>everything in the English language to comes down to a you say tomAYto
>and I say tomARto - although to this day I'm yet to find someone who
>actually says potARto.
>
>David
>


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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: officers
In-Reply-To: <000501c1c2d8$7855d4e0$88cda618@woh.rr.com>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 22:05:01 +0000
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: officers
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

At 05:25 PM 3/3/02, Andrew wrote:
>Even though I agree
>it doesn't take a lot of brains to tell a few people to get into a sardine
>can of a tank and do their job, 

Depends on the intelligence of the men (still, since the Army hasn't
got around to developing my point of view.  Women have quicker hand-eye
coordination and reaction times overall.  And something like that would
improve MY chance of survival...).

And Andrew, please consider dropping the subject of Army Officers.  
You are arguing from a position of ignorance.

rip

Richard P. Williamson
1LT, Armor
USAR (Inactive)



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Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 17:50:22 -0700
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Audio Books - Question For Ray
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"Donal K. Fellows" wrote:
> 
> (My current favourite audiotape for in-car listening is the original
> radio version of _The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy_.  Marvellous.)

Definately :)

I wish I had it on CD so I could listen to it at work since I only have
a CD walkman and not a tape player atm :)

Craig J. Ries



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Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 17:57:23 -0700
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Dramatic Price Drop for Honoured Enemy
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Raymond Feist wrote:
> 
> The books are being "remaindered" i.e. prices dropped, because the trade
> paperback edition is shipping, and usually hardcover sales die when the
> paperback comes out.

Considering standard practice in the States is usually 10-12 months
between hardcover printing and any paperback printing, do you think the
fact that, in the end, there are three different printings for a book
overseas make a difference at all in sales? hurt hardcover sales? etc.

Craig J. Ries



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Subject: Re: Dramatic Price Drop for Honoured Enemy
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From: "Andrew" <abizet@woh.rr.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Dramatic Price Drop for Honoured Enemy
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 21:28:06 -0500
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I personly don't think so. After all isn't a sale still a sale regardless of
which version you buy? Think about it, if you sell a book you know you will
get a cut. It may be a small cut, but a cut just the same. In the end it
would go to the bank. At lease I would hope so. I like the idea of books on
cd too. I have both a cd player and tape player in my truck. I like the
sound quality from cds better though.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Monday, March 04, 2002 7:57 PM
Subject: Re: Dramatic Price Drop for Honoured Enemy


> Raymond Feist wrote:
> >
> > The books are being "remaindered" i.e. prices dropped, because the trade
> > paperback edition is shipping, and usually hardcover sales die when the
> > paperback comes out.
>
> Considering standard practice in the States is usually 10-12 months
> between hardcover printing and any paperback printing, do you think the
> fact that, in the end, there are three different printings for a book
> overseas make a difference at all in sales? hurt hardcover sales? etc.
>
> Craig J. Ries
>
>



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 19:44:18 -0700
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Dramatic Price Drop for Honoured Enemy
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Andrew wrote:
> 
> I personly don't think so. After all isn't a sale still a sale regardless of
> which version you buy? Think about it, if you sell a book you know you will
> get a cut. It may be a small cut, but a cut just the same. In the end it
> would go to the bank. At lease I would hope so.

Well, hardcovers generate the most revenue, yes? Otherwise why do they
make 'em :)

So, I would venture that having a trade paperback out only 6 months
after the hardcover might cut into hardcover sales. Some people might
wait for a cheaper version and such... harder to wait a year for the
same thing :)

Craig J. Ries



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From: "Michael Gibson" <mike@gibbyco.freeserve.co.uk>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: OT: DVD Format (Was RE: Count of Monte Cristo)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 18:08:04 -0000
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Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: "Michael Gibson" <mike@gibbyco.freeserve.co.uk>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: OT: DVD Format (Was RE: Count of Monte Cristo)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 18:08:04 -0000
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

This is a slight off-shoot from this thread, but I'm interested to know what
people think of the DVD format, and its quality.  So far I've only experienced
it via a computer (albeit with a nice monitor), and thought it reasonable, but
not amazing.  I'm guessing a good quality decoder and 5(+).1 sound would enhance
the experience greatly.

I guess this may be a little off-topic so reply off-list if you want.

Mike,
Gibfish of the West

"I hate odd weeks, and don't get me started on Tuesdays..."

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Jason Martin
> Sent: 03 March 2002 02:27
> To: FEISTFANS-L
> Subject: OT: Count of Monte Cristo
>
>
> Well my wife and I finally saw this movie last night and we both Loved it.
> We will be getting it on DVD when it comes out.  I don't recall reading the
> story at all, but I will probaby sit down with it next month and give it a
> whirl.  Great acting and scenery and a hell of a story line too.  Go see it
> if you get a chance..
>
> Thanks,
> Jason
>
> "Too much knowlege never makes for simple decisions."
>                            Ghanima- Children of Dune
>
>



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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: OT: DVD Format (Was RE: Count of Monte Cristo)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: "" <aragon127@excite.com>
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*** EOOH ***
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: OT: DVD Format (Was RE: Count of Monte Cristo)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: "" <aragon127@excite.com>
Date: Tue,  5 Mar 2002 13:56:58 -0500 (EST)
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


The video quality is only marginally noticeable to most people with a
general tv and DVD player. The only time you get a real big
improvement with video is when he combine an HDTV with a progressive
scan DVD player. That provides a big improvement in video that is
noticeable to anyone. You have to have both though. An HDTV and a DVD
player without progressive scan really doesn't improve on video much
at all, and vice versa. The biggest improvement in DVD vs. non-DVD is
in sound. When combined with a 5.1 system and Dolby Digital the sound
quality blows VHS or TV sound away. The sound alone makes a big enough
difference to justify the costs to me. Just be sure you use the
digital out on the DVD player. I can't tell you how many people's
homes' I have been to and seen the DVD player hooked up from the a/v
to the vcr and then to the vcr-in on the receiver. They seem to think
this sound is a great improvement. I usually don't have the heart to
tell them that it is the exact same sound they are getting from VHS
movies. You have to connect the DVD's digital out directly to the
digital in on the receiver to get the improved sound. I don't know how
much DVD players are running in the UK, but here in the states you can
get a decent DVD player(non-progressive scan) for under $100. A 5.1
receiver will run anywhere from $100 up. I would definitely recommend
to upgrade to the DVD player. Since I've bought mine I almost refuse
to watch VHS movies. You have to do it right though, you're wasting
your money if you're not gonna take advantage of 5.1 and digital
sound. BTW, I think CNET has a good site with lots of info and reviews
on DVD hardware.


--- On Tue 03/05, Michael Gibson <mike@gibbyco.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
> This is a slight off-shoot from this thread, but I'm interested to know
> what
> people think of the DVD format, and its quality.  So far I've only
> experienced
> it via a computer (albeit with a nice monitor), and thought it reasonable,
> but
> not amazing.  I'm guessing a good quality decoder and 5(+).1 sound would
> enhance
> the experience greatly.
> 
> I guess this may be a little off-topic so reply off-list if you want.
> 
> Mike,
> Gibfish of the West
> 
> "I hate odd weeks, and don't get me started on Tuesdays..."
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Jason Martin
> > Sent: 03 March 2002 02:27
> > To: FEISTFANS-L
> > Subject: OT: Count of Monte Cristo
> >
> >
> > Well my wife and I finally saw this movie last night and we both
> Loved it.
> > We will be getting it on DVD when it comes out.  I don't recall
> reading the
> > story at all, but I will probaby sit down with it next month and give
> it a
> > whirl.  Great acting and scenery and a hell of a story line too.  Go
> see it
> > if you get a chance..
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Jason
> >
> > "Too much knowlege never makes for simple decisions."
> >                            Ghanima- Children of Dune
> >
> >
> 
> 

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From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT: DVD Format (Was RE: Count of Monte Cristo)
In-Reply-To: <NGELLDNAEMBGGGHFAJPBCEFBCKAA.mike@gibbyco.freeserve.co.uk>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 07:59:29 +1000 (GMT+1000)
From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT: DVD Format (Was RE: Count of Monte Cristo)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


Better than VHS
:)

I got both a tv-dvd and a dvd disc drive on my computer...and I prefer
using my tv dvd to watch movies....computer movies are just plain
annoying.

Is there any better than DVD atm? (I'm out of the technological loop)

> This is a slight off-shoot from this thread, but I'm interested to know what
> people think of the DVD format, and its quality.  So far I've only experienced
> it via a computer (albeit with a nice monitor), and thought it reasonable, but
> not amazing.  I'm guessing a good quality decoder and 5(+).1 sound would enhance
> the experience greatly.
>
> I guess this may be a little off-topic so reply off-list if you want.
>
> Mike,
> Gibfish of the West
>
> "I hate odd weeks, and don't get me started on Tuesdays..."
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Jason Martin
> > Sent: 03 March 2002 02:27
> > To: FEISTFANS-L
> > Subject: OT: Count of Monte Cristo
> >
> >
> > Well my wife and I finally saw this movie last night and we both Loved it.
> > We will be getting it on DVD when it comes out.  I don't recall reading the
> > story at all, but I will probaby sit down with it next month and give it a
> > whirl.  Great acting and scenery and a hell of a story line too.  Go see it
> > if you get a chance..
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Jason
> >
> > "Too much knowlege never makes for simple decisions."
> >                            Ghanima- Children of Dune
> >
> >
>
>

Thanks
Darragh
-=-=
www.iamtheporkfireman.com
[Email]: s356179@student.uq.edu.au [ICQ]: 114283262



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From: "A Irving" <s355156@student.uq.edu.au>
To: feistfans-l@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT: DVD Format (Was RE: Count of Monte Cristo)
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 08:28:57 +1000 (EST)
From: "A Irving" <s355156@student.uq.edu.au>
To: feistfans-l@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT: DVD Format (Was RE: Count of Monte Cristo)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

You must be a little biased towards your T.V. however darragh, considering 
it is 1.4 metres(?).
But mike, You should really see it on the TV before considering, the 
differences are noticeable between tv and computer. Though I have seen it 
look quite good on a LCD monitor. An actual DVD decoder card is suppose to 
increase the computer DVD quality aswell. Unfortunately I only have one in 
my computer, but it is still much better than VCR etc. I am sure REF can 
tell you how much better DVD players are for the tv with all his knowledge 
on digital progressive scan players etc. which I do not think computer 
DVD-drives support.
Responding To:    Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
Original Date:    Wed, 6 Mar 2002 07:59:29 +1000 (GMT+1000)
> 
> 
> Better than VHS
> :)
> 
> I got both a tv-dvd and a dvd disc drive on my computer...and I prefer
> using my tv dvd to watch movies....computer movies are just plain
> annoying.
> 
> Is there any better than DVD atm? (I'm out of the technological loop)
> 
> > This is a slight off-shoot from this thread, but I'm interested to know 
> > what
> > people think of the DVD format, and its quality.  So far I've only 
> > experienced
> > it via a computer (albeit with a nice monitor), and thought it 
> > reasonable, but
> > not amazing.  I'm guessing a good quality decoder and 5(+).1 sound 
> > would enhance
> > the experience greatly.
> >
> > I guess this may be a little off-topic so reply off-list if you want.
> >
> > Mike,
> > Gibfish of the West
> >
> > "I hate odd weeks, and don't get me started on Tuesdays..."
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > > [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Jason Martin
> > > Sent: 03 March 2002 02:27
> > > To: FEISTFANS-L
> > > Subject: OT: Count of Monte Cristo
> > >
> > >
> > > Well my wife and I finally saw this movie last night and we both 
> > > Loved it.
> > > We will be getting it on DVD when it comes out.  I don't recall 
> > > reading the
> > > story at all, but I will probaby sit down with it next month and give 
> > > it a
> > > whirl.  Great acting and scenery and a hell of a story line too.  Go 
> > > see it
> > > if you get a chance..
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Jason
> > >
> > > "Too much knowlege never makes for simple decisions."
> > >                            Ghanima- Children of Dune
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> 
> Thanks
> Darragh
> -=-=
> www.iamtheporkfireman.com
> [Email]: s356179@student.uq.edu.au [ICQ]: 114283262
> 




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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 15:14:50 -0800 (PST)
From: Nathan <nathan@irish4ever.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: OT weird English
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What kind of English does Billy Boyd speak?
He plays Pippin in LOTR. In an interview he pronounced e.g. "pipe"
somehow like "pape".

Greetings
Father Nathan

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Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 16:47:25 -0700
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
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Subject: Re: OT weird English
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Nathan wrote:
> 
> What kind of English does Billy Boyd speak?

Scottish. :)

Craig J. Ries



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From: lds627@attbi.com
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT weird English
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 23:50:57 +0000
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Would seem like Irish to me.

Larry
> 
> What kind of English does Billy Boyd speak?
> He plays Pippin in LOTR. In an interview he pronounced e.g. "pipe" somehow like 
> "pape".
> 
> Greetings
> Father Nathan
> 
> _____________________________________________________________
> Get your Free, Permanent, and Private Irish Email Today!
> ---------- http://www.irish4ever.com -----------
> 
> _____________________________________________________________
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> or @yourcompany from Everyone.net --> http://www.everyone.net?tag
> 



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Subject: Re: DVD Format (Was RE: Count of Monte Cristo)
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Viewing on a computer does not give you the best quality. A good quality
player on your TV and it is amazing



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Subject: Re: OT weird English
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On Tuesday, March 5, 2002, at 03:14 PM, Nathan wrote:

>
> What kind of English does Billy Boyd speak?
> He plays Pippin in LOTR. In an interview he pronounced e.g. "pipe" 
> somehow like "pape".
>

He's doing something I would classify a "generic gaelic accent," i.e. a 
touch of a Scottish brogue (which you hear in Northern England), but 
with a little Irish lilt tossed in.  Maybe a smattering of Welsh as well.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 21:21:37 EST
Subject: Re: English pronunciation (was AudioBooks ...)
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Westchester, New York


In a message dated 3/3/2002 3:11:13 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
raymond@bittersea.com writes:


> Westchester, where?  Connecticut, California, Pennsylvania?
> 
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
> 
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
> stupidity.
> 
> 


From Richard

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Subject: Re: greater and lesser paths
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From: RBlackley@aol.com
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 21:29:34 EST
Subject: Re: greater and lesser paths
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I believe the difference is that the greater path involves chanting and 
humming and reading off a scroll, while the lesser path it more mental, a 
quick few words and poof!
      That is what I think, if you read Master, and I think Buccaneer, 
Kulgan, and Nakor respectivly go over it.  I think.

Richard


In a message dated 3/4/2002 8:03:39 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
murf_seed@yahoo.com writes:


> Ray, exactly what are the main differences between the
> greater and lesser paths of magic.
> Is it in the way that the magic is learned or is it in
> the way it's implemented.
> I would be really grateful if u could dispel a bit of
> my confusion.
> 
> -Kervyn Cloete
> 
> "All your base are belong to us!"

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Subject: Re: greater and lesser paths
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*** EOOH ***
From: RBlackley@aol.com
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 21:36:35 EST
Subject: Re: greater and lesser paths
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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yeah, that exactly what I meant, no really it is.  lol


In a message dated 3/4/2002 10:35:08 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
raymond@bittersea.com writes:


> Very complex question.
> 
> Let me sum up by saying, Greater Path is 100% "mental," i.e. the 
> magician reaches out and takes charge of Nakor's "stuff" and works it 
> around.  How much/little he/she can get out of it is a function of 
> talent.
> 
> Lesser Path's are more like shamans.  They use their own bodies, 
> objects, other creatures, etc. to channel the magic.
> 
> That's the best I can do in a short answer.
> 
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
> 
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
> stupidity.


From Richard

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Subject: Re: officers
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*** EOOH ***
From: RBlackley@aol.com
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 21:44:15 EST
Subject: Re: officers
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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>>And Andrew, please consider dropping the subject of Army Officers.  
>>You are arguing from a position of ignorance.
 Yeah I agree, your insults are also kind of insulting to someone whose uncle 
has died in the army.

In a message dated 3/4/2002 5:33:19 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
richard.williamson@windriver.com writes:


> At 05:25 PM 3/3/02, Andrew wrote:
> >Even though I agree
> >it doesn't take a lot of brains to tell a few people to get into a sardine
> >can of a tank and do their job, 
> 
> Depends on the intelligence of the men (still, since the Army hasn't
> got around to developing my point of view.  Women have quicker hand-eye
> coordination and reaction times overall.  And something like that would
> improve MY chance of survival...).
> 
> And Andrew, please consider dropping the subject of Army Officers.  
> You are arguing from a position of ignorance.
> 
> rip
> 
> Richard P. Williamson
> 1LT, Armor
> USAR (Inactive)
> 


From Richard

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*** EOOH ***
From: RBlackley@aol.com
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 21:45:29 EST
Subject: Re: Audio Books - Question For Ray
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My friend downloaded the whole thing and burned it onto four or five CDs.

In a message dated 3/4/2002 8:25:27 PM Eastern Standard Time, cries@yifan.net 
writes:


> "Donal K. Fellows" wrote:
> > 
> > (My current favourite audiotape for in-car listening is the original
> > radio version of _The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy_.  Marvellous.)
> 
> Definately :)
> 
> I wish I had it on CD so I could listen to it at work since I only have
> a CD walkman and not a tape player atm :)
> 
> Craig J. Ries


From Richard

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Subject: Re: OT: DVD Format (Was RE: Count of Monte Cristo)
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*** EOOH ***
From: RBlackley@aol.com
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 21:51:44 EST
Subject: Re: OT: DVD Format (Was RE: Count of Monte Cristo)
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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Tell me if I should have replied off list but I find DVD quality in general 
to not be that much better than VHS, BUT there are better fetures, ie: no 
rewind, 32 speed fast forward, plus all the special features, also I enjoy 
listening to the actors/producers/directors/etc. comments, which is often a 
bonus.

From Richard

In a message dated 3/5/2002 1:27:09 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
mike@gibbyco.freeserve.co.uk writes:


> This is a slight off-shoot from this thread, but I'm interested to know what
> people think of the DVD format, and its quality.  So far I've only 
> experienced
> it via a computer (albeit with a nice monitor), and thought it reasonable, 
> but
> not amazing.  I'm guessing a good quality decoder and 5(+).1 sound would 
> enhance
> the experience greatly.
> 
> I guess this may be a little off-topic so reply off-list if you want.
> 
> Mike,
> Gibfish of the West
> 
> "I hate odd weeks, and don't get me started on Tuesdays..."

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Subject: Re: greater and lesser paths
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Andrew" <abizet@woh.rr.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: greater and lesser paths
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 22:03:12 -0500
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Personally, I think the differance is pretty simple. Besides the fact
that greater path does more damage. I think that greater path demands
a great more attention (mentaly)  to detail and drains the caster
quicker. Plus the lack of the need for objects to channel the
energy. Where as the lesser path you need an item. Rather it is a
person or item such as Marcos's staff in the magician series. Now with
the greater path and crossing deminsions I can see the need for item
like the staff that Marcos gave Kulgan after he tripped on the
island. Plus the fact that with lesser path it takes longer for the
caster to get drained. Unless you have to continue to chant or
otherwise make a motion. An example of that is: In the magician series
where the group had to escape the attacking party in the fog that
Kulgan conjured with the amulet he wore. He had to continue to do that
till it was deemed safe. Now if Pug had the ability he had in
Magician: Master he could have done that all day without any
amulet. Please keep in mind that that is just my opinion.
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: RBlackley@aol.com 
>To: FEISTFANS-L 
>Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2002 9:36 PM
>Subject: Re: greater and lesser paths
>
>
>yeah, that exactly what I meant, no really it is.  lol
>
>
>In a message dated 3/4/2002 10:35:08 AM Eastern Standard Time, raymond@bittersea.com writes:
>
>
>
>  Very complex question.
>
>  Let me sum up by saying, Greater Path is 100% "mental," i.e. the 
>  magician reaches out and takes charge of Nakor's "stuff" and works it 
>  around.  How much/little he/she can get out of it is a function of 
>  talent.
>
>  Lesser Path's are more like shamans.  They use their own bodies, 
>  objects, other creatures, etc. to channel the magic.
>
>  That's the best I can do in a short answer.
>
>  Best, R.E.F.
>  ----
>
>  Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
>  stupidity.
>
>
>
>>From Richard 

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Subject: Re: officers
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Andrew" <abizet@woh.rr.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: officers
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 22:04:47 -0500
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

That was done and over. You brought it back up.
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: RBlackley@aol.com 
>To: FEISTFANS-L 
>Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2002 9:44 PM
>Subject: Re: officers
>
>
>>>And Andrew, please consider dropping the subject of Army Officers.  
>>>You are arguing from a position of ignorance.
>Yeah I agree, your insults are also kind of insulting to someone whose uncle has died in the army.
>
>In a message dated 3/4/2002 5:33:19 PM Eastern Standard Time, richard.williamson@windriver.com writes:
>
>
>
>  At 05:25 PM 3/3/02, Andrew wrote:
>  >Even though I agree
>  >it doesn't take a lot of brains to tell a few people to get into a sardine
>  >can of a tank and do their job, 
>
>  Depends on the intelligence of the men (still, since the Army hasn't
>  got around to developing my point of view.  Women have quicker hand-eye
>  coordination and reaction times overall.  And something like that would
>  improve MY chance of survival...).
>
>  And Andrew, please consider dropping the subject of Army Officers.  
>  You are arguing from a position of ignorance.
>
>  rip
>
>  Richard P. Williamson
>  1LT, Armor
>  USAR (Inactive)
>
>
>
>
>From Richard 

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Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 19:29:24 -0800
Subject: Re: OT: DVD Format (Was RE: Count of Monte Cristo)
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 19:29:24 -0800
Subject: Re: OT: DVD Format (Was RE: Count of Monte Cristo)
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Tuesday, March 5, 2002, at 06:51 PM, RBlackley@aol.com wrote:

> Tell me if I should have replied off list but I find DVD quality in 
> general to not be that much better than VHS, BUT there are better 
> fetures, ie: no rewind, 32 speed fast forward, plus all the special 
> features, also I enjoy listening to the actors/producers/directors/etc. 
> comments, which is often a bonus.
>

I will guarantee it that is a function of your TV, nothing more.  DVD 
offers 480 lines horizontally of progressive scan (if you have a 
progressive scan DVD player) vs. 225 lines of interlaced signal on a 
NTSC signal.  Just going to VHS, even if it's at the fastest speed 
available (standard), will degrade the signal by at least 20%.

Run a DVD through a HDTV and you're eyes will pop.

Digital is to NTSC/VSH as dts or Dolby Digital is to two channel stereo.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.

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From: "James & Celeste Matlock" <jmatlock@cox.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: DVD Format (Was RE: Count of Monte Cristo)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 19:27:32 -0800
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James & Celeste Matlock" <jmatlock@cox.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: DVD Format (Was RE: Count of Monte Cristo)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 19:27:32 -0800
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

You do not need an HDTV television to notice the difference in the quality
between a DVD digital signal
and a standard RF modulated signal.  A decent quality tv like a 20" Sony
Wega will do nicely.  I work
with both types of signals on a daily basis and the digital feed is much
clearer and more vibrant than an
RF modulated signal.  The RF signal has a lot more noise in it which softens
the edges and washes out
the color.  You have to look at them side by side to understand what I am
talking about but once you do
you will always be able to tell the difference.

Jim

> -----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On
>Behalf Of aragon127@excite.com
>Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2002 10:57 AM
>To: FEISTFANS-L
>Subject: OT: DVD Format (Was RE: Count of Monte Cristo)
>
>
>  The video quality is only marginally noticeable to most people with a
>general tv and DVD player. The only time you get a real big improvement with
>video is when he combine an HDTV with a progressive scan DVD player. That
>provides a big improvement in video that is noticeable to anyone. You have
>to have both though. An HDTV and a DVD player without progressive scan
>really doesn't improve on video much at all, and vice versa. The biggest
>improvement in DVD vs. non-DVD is in sound. When combined with a 5.1 system
>and Dolby Digital the sound quality blows VHS or TV sound away. The sound
>alone makes a big enough difference to justify the costs to me. Just be sure
>you use the digital out on the DVD player. I can't tell you how many
>people's homes' I have been to and seen the DVD player hooked up from the
>a/v to the vcr and then to the vcr-in on the receiver. They seem to think
>this sound is a great improvement. I usually don't have the heart to tell
>them that it is the exact same so! ! und they are getting from VHS movies.
>You have to connect the DVD's digital out directly to the digital in on the
>receiver to get the improved sound. I don't know how much DVD players are
>running in the UK, but here in the states you can get a decent DVD
>player(non-progressive scan) for under $100. A 5.1 receiver will run
>anywhere from $100 up. I would definitely recommend to upgrade to the DVD
>player. Since I've bought mine I almost refuse to watch VHS movies. You have
>to do it right though, you're wasting your money if you're not gonna take
>advantage of 5.1 and digital sound. BTW, I think CNET has a good site with
>lots of info and reviews on DVD hardware.
>

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Subject: Re: OT: DVD Format (Was RE: Count of Monte Cristo)
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Andrew" <abizet@woh.rr.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT: DVD Format (Was RE: Count of Monte Cristo)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 22:43:45 -0500
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I don't have a DVD player. I would love  to get one though. Maybe next year.
>  ----- Original Message ----- 
>  From: Raymond Feist 
>  To: FEISTFANS-L 
>  Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2002 10:29 PM
>  Subject: Re: OT: DVD Format (Was RE: Count of Monte Cristo)
>
>
>  On Tuesday, March 5, 2002, at 06:51 PM, RBlackley@aol.com wrote:
>
>
>    Tell me if I should have replied off list but I find DVD quality in general to not be that much better than VHS, BUT there are better fetures, ie: no rewind, 32 speed fast forward, plus all the special features, also I enjoy listening to the actors/producers/directors/etc. comments, which is often a bonus.
>
>
>
>  I will guarantee it that is a function of your TV, nothing more. DVD offers 480 lines horizontally of progressive scan (if you have a progressive scan DVD player) vs. 225 lines of interlaced signal on a NTSC signal. Just going to VHS, even if it's at the fastest speed available (standard), will degrade the signal by at least 20%.
>
>  Run a DVD through a HDTV and you're eyes will pop.
>
>  Digital is to NTSC/VSH as dts or Dolby Digital is to two channel stereo.
>
>  Best, R.E.F.
>  ----
>
>  Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by stupidity.

1,,
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 20:43:56 -0700
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
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Ahh, well, dialup modem and no burner = bad things :)

Craig J. Ries



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Subject: Re: DVD Format (Was RE: Count of Monte Cristo)
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Andrew" <abizet@woh.rr.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: DVD Format (Was RE: Count of Monte Cristo)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 23:02:14 -0500
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I really don't have any idea. I am pleased with my dish. I get
something like 700 channels. So I am happy. I get plenty of college
basketball,tons of movies, a sofa that has everthing but a bathroom. I
mean everthing, radio/cd player, fridge, phone, massage, recliners,
bed. What more does a guy need? So next on my big boys toy list is a
DVD player for my cpu and my livingroom. Then the HDTV.
>  ----- Original Message ----- 
>  From: James & Celeste Matlock 
>  To: FEISTFANS-L 
>  Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2002 10:27 PM
>  Subject: RE: DVD Format (Was RE: Count of Monte Cristo)
>
>
>  You do not need an HDTV television to notice the difference in the quality between a DVD digital signal
>  and a standard RF modulated signal.  A decent quality tv like a 20" Sony Wega will do nicely.  I work 
>  with both types of signals on a daily basis and the digital feed is much clearer and more vibrant than an 
>  RF modulated signal.  The RF signal has a lot more noise in it which softens the edges and washes out 
>  the color.  You have to look at them side by side to understand what I am talking about but once you do 
>  you will always be able to tell the difference.
>
>  Jim

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Subject: internet gotta love it,  Audio Books - Question For Ray
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From: "Andrew" <abizet@woh.rr.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: internet gotta love it,  Audio Books - Question For Ray
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 23:07:52 -0500
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I just recently actually learned the best way to run my CD burner, but after
many ruined disks. Now that the only reason I throw away a disk is if there
is an error on it. This last batch of recordable cds I have had to throw
away two. Not bad for out of 50 disks. I have a blast finding new Mp3 sites.
Just to see if there are any songs I couldn't find before. So when you get
one learn how to use it from trial and error. You will love the number of
music cds you will make. Up to date 40 cds here.  You just gotta love the
internet


----- Original Message -----
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2002 10:43 PM
Subject: Re: Audio Books - Question For Ray


> Ahh, well, dialup modem and no burner = bad things :)
>
> Craig J. Ries
>
>



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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Kenneth Jones <killkenny@thos.co.za>
Subject: Re: internet gotta love it,  Audio Books - Question For Ray
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Or you could just get a Plextor Writer. I have written about 150 disks and, 
not messed up one!

At 11:07 PM 3/5/02 -0500, you wrote:
>I just recently actually learned the best way to run my CD burner, but after
>many ruined disks. Now that the only reason I throw away a disk is if there
>is an error on it. This last batch of recordable cds I have had to throw
>away two. Not bad for out of 50 disks. I have a blast finding new Mp3 sites.
>Just to see if there are any songs I couldn't find before. So when you get
>one learn how to use it from trial and error. You will love the number of
>music cds you will make. Up to date 40 cds here.  You just gotta love the
>internet
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
>To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
>Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2002 10:43 PM
>Subject: Re: Audio Books - Question For Ray
>
>
> > Ahh, well, dialup modem and no burner = bad things :)
> >
> > Craig J. Ries
> >
> >



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Actually, viewing on your computer does give you a better quality
picture then a tv, just smaller. There are basically two ways to
display video: interlaced scan or progressive scan. Progressive scan,
used in computer monitors and digital television, displays all the
horizontal lines of a picture at one time, as a single
frame. Interlaced scan, used in standard television formats NTSC, PAL,
and SECAM, displays only half of the horizontal lines at a time (the
first field, containing the odd-numbered lines, is displayed, followed
by the second field, containing the even-numbered lines). Interlacing
relies on phosphor persistence of the TV tube to blend the fields
together over time into a seemingly single picture. The advantage of
interlaced video is that a high refresh rate (50 or 60 Hz) can be
achieved with only half the bandwidth. The disadvantage is that the
horizontal resolution is essentially cut in half, and the video is
often filtered to avoid flicker (interfield twitter) and other
artifacts. So, in effect, a non-digital TV is only capable of less
then half the picture quality of a Computer monitor. It's all a moot
point though if the DVD was produced cheaply. There are a few DVD's
out there that were produced with MPEG-1 encoding as opposed to
MPEG-2. MPEG-1 is no better then a VHS movie, even if you have the
best TV system in the world. If you want to know everything there is
to know about DVD, I suggest you view the DVD FAQ at
http://www.dvddemystified.com/dvdfaq.html


--- On Tue 03/05, Nevyn <alien4@wasp.net.au> wrote:
> Viewing on a computer does not give you the best quality. A good quality
> player on your TV and it is amazing
> 
> 

<hr>



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Subject: The Northlands
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From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
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Subject: The Northlands
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Dear Ray:

I always assumed that the northland towns had humans living in them, kind of 
like old western fronteir towns, after rereading BaK, I am not so sure.

What are the northland towns like? In BaK, Raglam is decribed as being "not 
quite northlands, not quite kingdom,"  as there is a goodly population of 
humans there. Well who else lives there? Dark Elves? Goblins? If so, why do 
they tolerate humans living there? What makes a northlands town northlands 
in character?

Is Wyke, being just over the border, simillar to Raglam in makeup.

How about the towns farther north, like Caern and Harleck? Do any humans 
live there? What are they like?

Thanks for the insight.

Jimmy

_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com



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Dear Ray:

I always assumed that the northland towns had humans living in them, kind of
like old western frontier towns, after rereading BaK, I am not so sure.

What are the northland towns like? In BaK, Raglam is decribed as being "not
quite northlands, not quite kingdom,"  as there is a goodly population of
humans there. Well who else lives there? Dark Elves? Goblins? If so, why do
they tolerate humans living there? What makes a northlands town northlands
in character?

Is Wyke, being just over the border, simillar to Raglam in makeup.

How about the towns farther north, like Caern and Harleck? Do any humans
live there? What are they like?

Thanks for the insight.



_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx



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On Wednesday, March 6, 2002, at 05:44 AM, James Silva wrote:

> Dear Ray:
>
> I always assumed that the northland towns had humans living in them, 
> kind of like old western fronteir towns, after rereading BaK, I am not 
> so sure.
>
> What are the northland towns like? In BaK, Raglam is decribed as being 
> "not quite northlands, not quite kingdom,"  as there is a goodly 
> population of humans there. Well who else lives there? Dark Elves? 
> Goblins? If so, why do they tolerate humans living there? What makes a 
> northlands town northlands in character?
>
> Is Wyke, being just over the border, simillar to Raglam in makeup.
>
> How about the towns farther north, like Caern and Harleck? Do any 
> humans live there? What are they like?
>
> Thanks for the insight.
>

There are "renegade" human populations in the eastern portion of the 
Northlands.  When you read Honored Enemy you'll come across another.  
Non-humans visit, and a few live there.

In the west, the population of humans centered out of Armengar, and 
tended to look more like a small nation.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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From: "Earl Borah" <earl@ncn.com>
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Subject: Re: OT: DVD Format (Was RE: Count of Monte Cristo)
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Earl Borah" <earl@ncn.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 10:12:18 -0800
Subject: Re: OT: DVD Format (Was RE: Count of Monte Cristo)
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> I will guarantee it that is a function of your TV, nothing more.  DVD
> offers 480 lines horizontally of progressive scan (if you have a
> progressive scan DVD player) vs. 225 lines of interlaced signal on a
> NTSC signal.  Just going to VHS, even if it's at the fastest speed
> available (standard), will degrade the signal by at least 20%.
> 
> Run a DVD through a HDTV and you're eyes will pop.
> 
> Digital is to NTSC/VSH as dts or Dolby Digital is to two channel
> stereo.


Even on a low-end TV with nothing but an RCA jack (no option for 
component video, or even S-Video), you can see the difference.

We have an older DVD player that we bought a few years ago. Shortly 
after we bought it, we compared a DVD we'd rented (the latest Bond 
movie) to a VHS copy of the same movie that we owned. We were amazed 
at the difference. The picture quality was much, MUCH better on the 
DVD (surprisingly so -- you don't realize how bad VHS is until you 
can do a side-by-side comparison!). Our hardware is low-end enough we 
weren't even taking advantage of all the benefits of DVD -- we know 
the picture will only look better as we get better hardware.

The sound was better too, even through just a Dolby Pro-Logic 
surround system (which takes the standard stereo signal, not the 5.1 
channel signals, and tries to emulate surround sound). It's like the 
difference between listening to a cassette compared to a CD -- even 
with only stereo sound, the CD will sound a lot better than the tape. 
Well, DVD's support much higher quality sound than CD's do, so just 
think of comparing that to your VHS "cassette" tape.

If you like watching (prerecorded) movies, take the plunge. DVD's 
beat VHS by an even greater margin that CD's beat cassette tapes, for 
both picture and sound. Don't get me started on the extras (this 
weekend I want to go back and watch Total Recall again, with the 
commentary track by Arnold and the director), which vary from 
nonexistent or pathetic to being even better than the movie itself.

  - Earl Borah
-----
  If a man speaks in a forest and a woman isn't there to hear it,
  is he still wrong?              (author unknown)



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Subject: RE: OT weird English
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From: "MChaloner" <markchaloner@btinternet.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: OT weird English
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 18:18:15 -0000
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> -----Original Message-----
> On Tuesday, March 5, 2002, at 03:14 PM, Nathan wrote:
> > What kind of English does Billy Boyd speak?
> > He plays Pippin in LOTR. In an interview he pronounced e.g. "pipe"
> > somehow like "pape".
> >
> <snip>
> touch of a Scottish brogue (which you hear in Northern England)
> <snip>
> Best, R.E.F.


If there's a Yorkshireman or Geordie on this list, they'll have you for
that statement <laughs>

---
mark ;-)
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
'A man who sees a god in his master, scarcely hopes for paradise'
- Marquis de Custine
markchaloner@btinternet.com



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 10:54:04 -0800
Subject: Re: OT weird English
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
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On Wednesday, March 6, 2002, at 10:18 AM, MChaloner wrote:

>
>
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> On Tuesday, March 5, 2002, at 03:14 PM, Nathan wrote:
>>> What kind of English does Billy Boyd speak?
>>> He plays Pippin in LOTR. In an interview he pronounced e.g. "pipe"
>>> somehow like "pape".
>>>
>> <snip>
>> touch of a Scottish brogue (which you hear in Northern England)
>> <snip>
>> Best, R.E.F.
>
>
> If there's a Yorkshireman or Geordie on this list, they'll have you for
> that statement <laughs>
>

I was thinking more up around Liverpool, where every once in a while you 
hear a tiny bit of the same rhythms and cadence as you do in southern 
Scotland.

Best, R.E.F>
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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From: Dun Xiahou <xiahoudun13@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Audio Books - Question For Ray
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 11:09:13 -0800 (PST)
From: Dun Xiahou <xiahoudun13@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Audio Books - Question For Ray
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

well, have a friend hook the tape up to the "Line-in"
port on his sound card, then use some recording
software to record the tape.  You should probably
seperate each chapter or so into seperate
files/tracks.  After all of it is recorded, convert to
CDA format and burn onto a CD.

- Xiahou Dun

P.S.  It's a lot easier than it sounds.
P.P.S.  Please, only do this to your OWN copy.  It's
simply illegal to copy it for someone else's use.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/



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Subject: not a bad idea
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 14:17:05 -0500
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From: "Andrew" <abizet@woh.rr.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: not a bad idea
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 14:17:05 -0500
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

That isn't a bad idea. To bad I am not that big a cpu genius.


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dun Xiahou" <xiahoudun13@yahoo.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 2:09 PM
Subject: Re: Audio Books - Question For Ray


> well, have a friend hook the tape up to the "Line-in"
> port on his sound card, then use some recording
> software to record the tape.  You should probably
> seperate each chapter or so into seperate
> files/tracks.  After all of it is recorded, convert to
> CDA format and burn onto a CD.
> 
> - Xiahou Dun
> 
> P.S.  It's a lot easier than it sounds.
> P.P.S.  Please, only do this to your OWN copy.  It's
> simply illegal to copy it for someone else's use.
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
> http://mail.yahoo.com/
> 
> 



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Subject: Re: OT: DVD Format (Was RE: Count of Monte Cristo)
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Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 11:33:15 -0800 (PST)
From: Dun Xiahou <xiahoudun13@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: OT: DVD Format (Was RE: Count of Monte Cristo)
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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Actually, if you want a really great picture for a lot
cheaper price, purchase an HDTV READY TV (requires a
seperate decoder to view HDTV signals) and hook a
really cheap computer with a GeForce2 MX Video Card up
to it.  The GeForce2 MX can decode HDTV signals better
than most $2000 external decoders, and you can pay as
low as $500 for the entire computer.

My superior at work has a system which uses this in
his home.  He has the computer hooked up to an RGB
projector which projects onto a 10 foot movie screen. 
He also has a 7.1 surround system set up (2 front, 2
side, 2 back, 1 center, and a subwoofer).

As for sound, make sure you get a receiver with DTS
decoding as well as Dolby Digital (AC-3).  AC-3
actually only contains encoding for center, front
left, front right, and surround channels.  DTS has up
to 8 seperate discrete channels encoded, it all
depends on the movie, but most I have seen are 6.1 DTS
(Gladiator and Saving Private Ryan just to name 2). 
Also, DTS does a much better job of vertical
positioning than AC-3 does.  When watching Gladiator
with a good DTS system, during the opening battle
sequence, one can hear arrows flying overhead and even
past your ear.  It's truly an amazing experience.

Sound has always been more important (in MY opinion)
when watching a good movie, so make sure you have some
good high accuracy speakers, and position them well so
that those watching the movie are centered between all
speakers evenly.  Optimally you want no obstructions
bewteen the speakers and you, and you also would
typically place the speakers at about ear level when
sitting.

I'm really a novice when it comes to sound setups
compared to my boss and some other folks I know. 
Truthfully, it's because I don't have the money to
spend on it.

- Xiahou Dun


--- Earl Borah <earl@ncn.com> wrote:
> > I will guarantee it that is a function of your TV,
> nothing more.  DVD
> > offers 480 lines horizontally of progressive scan
> (if you have a
> > progressive scan DVD player) vs. 225 lines of
> interlaced signal on a
> > NTSC signal.  Just going to VHS, even if it's at
> the fastest speed
> > available (standard), will degrade the signal by
> at least 20%.
> > 
> > Run a DVD through a HDTV and you're eyes will pop.
> > 
> > Digital is to NTSC/VSH as dts or Dolby Digital is
> to two channel
> > stereo.
> 
> 
> Even on a low-end TV with nothing but an RCA jack
> (no option for 
> component video, or even S-Video), you can see the
> difference.
> 
> We have an older DVD player that we bought a few
> years ago. Shortly 
> after we bought it, we compared a DVD we'd rented
> (the latest Bond 
> movie) to a VHS copy of the same movie that we
> owned. We were amazed 
> at the difference. The picture quality was much,
> MUCH better on the 
> DVD (surprisingly so -- you don't realize how bad
> VHS is until you 
> can do a side-by-side comparison!). Our hardware is
> low-end enough we 
> weren't even taking advantage of all the benefits of
> DVD -- we know 
> the picture will only look better as we get better
> hardware.
> 
> The sound was better too, even through just a Dolby
> Pro-Logic 
> surround system (which takes the standard stereo
> signal, not the 5.1 
> channel signals, and tries to emulate surround
> sound). It's like the 
> difference between listening to a cassette compared
> to a CD -- even 
> with only stereo sound, the CD will sound a lot
> better than the tape. 
> Well, DVD's support much higher quality sound than
> CD's do, so just 
> think of comparing that to your VHS "cassette" tape.
> 
> If you like watching (prerecorded) movies, take the
> plunge. DVD's 
> beat VHS by an even greater margin that CD's beat
> cassette tapes, for 
> both picture and sound. Don't get me started on the
> extras (this 
> weekend I want to go back and watch Total Recall
> again, with the 
> commentary track by Arnold and the director), which
> vary from 
> nonexistent or pathetic to being even better than
> the movie itself.
> 
>   - Earl Borah
> -----
>   If a man speaks in a forest and a woman isn't
> there to hear it,
>   is he still wrong?              (author unknown)
> 


__________________________________________________
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From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re: The Northlands
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From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re: The Northlands
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I have read Honoured Enemy. The town you speak of is the one that is sort of 
hidden within the mountains, right? So the makeup of this town is similar to 
the other eastern most northlands towns of Raglam and Wyke?

As far as Caern and Harleck, these are Moredhel townsa then?

Adieu

Jimmy


>From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
>Subject: Re: The Northlands
>Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 09:23:23 -0800
>
>
>On Wednesday, March 6, 2002, at 05:44 AM, James Silva wrote:
>
>>Dear Ray:
>>
>>I always assumed that the northland towns had humans living in them,
>>kind of like old western fronteir towns, after rereading BaK, I am not
>>so sure.
>>
>>What are the northland towns like? In BaK, Raglam is decribed as being
>>"not quite northlands, not quite kingdom,"  as there is a goodly
>>population of humans there. Well who else lives there? Dark Elves?
>>Goblins? If so, why do they tolerate humans living there? What makes a
>>northlands town northlands in character?
>>
>>Is Wyke, being just over the border, simillar to Raglam in makeup.
>>
>>How about the towns farther north, like Caern and Harleck? Do any
>>humans live there? What are they like?
>>
>>Thanks for the insight.
>>
>
>There are "renegade" human populations in the eastern portion of the
>Northlands.  When you read Honored Enemy you'll come across another.
>Non-humans visit, and a few live there.
>
>In the west, the population of humans centered out of Armengar, and
>tended to look more like a small nation.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
>stupidity.
>


_________________________________________________________________
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Subject: Re: The Northlands
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
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On Wednesday, March 6, 2002, at 11:38 AM, James Silva wrote:

> I have read Honoured Enemy. The town you speak of is the one that is 
> sort of hidden within the mountains, right? So the makeup of this town 
> is similar to the other eastern most northlands towns of Raglam and 
> Wyke?
>
> As far as Caern and Harleck, these are Moredhel townsa then?
>
>

No, the Moredhel don't live in towns, but rather clan villages or during 
certain periods, cities such as Sar-Sargoth.  But they do visit and 
often stay for a while in those human communities.

In Western Canada, over a hundred years ago, there were lots of 
communities of "half-breeds," i.e. mixed race people from Europeans and 
Native Americans, and both Native Americans and Europeans settled into 
those communities.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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From: "Tan, Liwen" <liwen.tan@ic.ac.uk>
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Subject: RE: Other books?
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From: "Tan, Liwen" <liwen.tan@ic.ac.uk>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" (FEISTFANS-L) <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Other books?
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Okay;

I've tried Knut Hamsen has he's the precursor the Kafka/Camus/Kundera/Satre
style of writing and was wondering what you thought of him...

And is it just me or is Conrad too verbose?

Terence



-----Original Message-----
>From: Raymond Feist
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Sent: 3/4/2002 8:43 PM
>Subject: Re: Other books?
>
>
>On Monday, March 4, 2002, at 10:45 AM, Tan, Liwen wrote:
>
>>
>> Ray,
>>
>> what books do recommend; after all I've finished all of yours...
>>
>> I've tried Steven Erikson (wandering storyline that pulls together at 
>> the
>> ed)
>>
>> James Barclay (straight forward "party" adventure at fast pace)
>>
>> Robert Jordan (when will it end?)
>>
>> JV Jones (well-balanced)
>>
>> Any recommendations?
>>
>> Terence
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>Among current authors?  No.  For social/political reasons.
>
>Among dead authors?
>
>Rafael Sabatini, Robert Louis Stevenson, Alexandre Dumas, Sir Walter 
>Scott, Mark Twain, Samuel Shellenbarger, Rosemarry Sutcliff, Mary 
>Renault, Thomas Costain,  Harper Lee, and those are just the ones off 
>the top of my head.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
>stupidity.
>


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Ok, I think I get it now. You will see humans and Dark Elves walking down 
the streets in these towns more-or-less in harmony, or at least they put up 
with each other for mutual benefit. The Dark Elves don't usually live in 
them, but they come and go for variour reasons like trading for weapons and 
such, or like in BaK, because they were organizing for an invasion of the 
Kingdom. Thus they allow the towns to continue because it suits their 
purposes, and because the humans living in the towns are independant and not 
at all affilitated with their Kingdom enemies?

Now the town that existed in HE was a different story, because these 
particular humans were hiding from the Dark Elves. They were a community 
that served no benefical purpose like trading weapons, plus they were 
harboring Dark Elf enemies, ie, Kingdom and Tsurani troops, hense the reason 
why the Dark Elfs wanted to slaughter the town?

Please correct me if I am totally off the mark here.

Thanks for the insight

Jimmy

>From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
>Subject: Re: The Northlands
>Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 13:05:21 -0800
>
>
>On Wednesday, March 6, 2002, at 11:38 AM, James Silva wrote:
>
>>I have read Honoured Enemy. The town you speak of is the one that is
>>sort of hidden within the mountains, right? So the makeup of this town
>>is similar to the other eastern most northlands towns of Raglam and
>>Wyke?
>>
>>As far as Caern and Harleck, these are Moredhel townsa then?
>>
>>
>
>No, the Moredhel don't live in towns, but rather clan villages or during
>certain periods, cities such as Sar-Sargoth.  But they do visit and
>often stay for a while in those human communities.
>
>In Western Canada, over a hundred years ago, there were lots of
>communities of "half-breeds," i.e. mixed race people from Europeans and
>Native Americans, and both Native Americans and Europeans settled into
>those communities.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
>stupidity.
>


_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com



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Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 16:49:26 -0700
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 16:49:26 -0700
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Audio Books - Question For Ray
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Dun Xiahou wrote:
> 
> well, have a friend hook the tape up to the "Line-in"
> port on his sound card, then use some recording
> software to record the tape.  You should probably
> seperate each chapter or so into seperate
> files/tracks.  After all of it is recorded, convert to
> CDA format and burn onto a CD.

Hmm. Maybe I can talk to a friend of mine. I have no burner, he might be
able to do it though.

> P.P.S.  Please, only do this to your OWN copy.  It's
> simply illegal to copy it for someone else's use.

Well, I do have my own copy... for its age, it runs great.
Unfortunately, I'm missing the second tape and always have been since I
rummaged it from my uncle's stuff when he went missing for 9 months
(atleast when he turned up again he knew it was getting good use :)

Craig J. Ries



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Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 20:32:35 EST
Subject: Re: officers
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*** EOOH ***
From: JEEPMONSTER69@aol.com
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 20:32:35 EST
Subject: Re: officers
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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In a message dated 3/5/2002 9:58:52 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
RBlackley@aol.com writes:


> >>And Andrew, please consider dropping the subject of Army Officers.  
> >>You are arguing from a position of ignorance.
> Yeah I agree, your insults are also kind of insulting to someone whose 
> uncle has died in the army.
> 
> In a message dated 3/4/2002 5:33:19 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
> richard.williamson@windriver.com writes:
> 
> 
> >> At 05:25 PM 3/3/02, Andrew wrote:
>> >Even though I agree
>> >it doesn't take a lot of brains to tell a few people to get into a sardine
>> >can of a tank and do their job, 
>> 
> 

Ill have you know, Andrew, that today, a soldier is so highly trained that he 
would be considered a master at any other trade.  Im sure that some of my 1st 
Cav friends (my grandfather was one) would love to have a few words with you.

                                     Peace,
                                           "Big Bronx" Matt
"Lets Roll."- Todd Beamer
USA, Muthafacko!

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Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 20:34:47 EST
Subject: Re: The Northlands
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*** EOOH ***
From: JEEPMONSTER69@aol.com
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 20:34:47 EST
Subject: Re: The Northlands
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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In a message dated 3/6/2002 12:32:29 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
raymond@bittersea.com writes:


> In the west, the population of humans centered out of Armengar, and 
> tended to look more like a small nation.
> 
> Best, R.E.F.
> 

       So what happened to Armengar after The Great Uprising? I know in BaK 
the Naptha mines were up and running, but was there any life in the ruins of 
the city?

                                           Peace, 
                                                 Matt
"Lets Roll."- Todd Beamer
USA, Muthafacko!

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From: "Terri Lyn Layman" <terrilyn@ameritech.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Other books?
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 22:18:01 -0500
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*** EOOH ***
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: "Terri Lyn Layman" <terrilyn@ameritech.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Other books?
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 22:18:01 -0500
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Raymond Feist
> Sent: Monday, March 04, 2002 3:44 PM
> To: FEISTFANS-L
> Subject: Re: Other books?
> On Monday, March 4, 2002, at 10:45 AM, Tan, Liwen wrote:
> > Ray,
> >
> > what books do recommend; after all I've finished all of yours...
> >
<snip>
> > Any recommendations?
<snip>
> Among current authors?  No.  For social/political reasons.
>

Well, from the realm of current authors I've pondered reading...

What about Kathryn?  (your ex)  Would you(or anyone on the list for that
matter)recommend her for reading?

If you can't comment, or don't wish to, I'd understand.

-TerriLyn



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 20:12:17 -0800
Subject: Re: The Northlands
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On Wednesday, March 6, 2002, at 05:34 PM, JEEPMONSTER69@aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 3/6/2002 12:32:29 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
> raymond@bittersea.com writes:
>
>
> In the west, the population of humans centered out of Armengar, and
> tended to look more like a small nation.
>
> Best, R.E.F.
>
>
>
>       So what happened to Armengar after The Great Uprising? I know in 
> BaK the Naptha mines were up and running, but was there any life in the 
> ruins of the city?
>

No.  The human population of the area for the most part integrated with 
their Yabonese cousins.  A few went back north, and lived in the small 
towns to the east.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.

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Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 20:13:02 -0800
Subject: Re: Other books?
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 20:13:02 -0800
Subject: Re: Other books?
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Wednesday, March 6, 2002, at 07:18 PM, Terri Lyn Layman wrote:

>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Raymond Feist
>> Sent: Monday, March 04, 2002 3:44 PM
>> To: FEISTFANS-L
>> Subject: Re: Other books?
>> On Monday, March 4, 2002, at 10:45 AM, Tan, Liwen wrote:
>>> Ray,
>>>
>>> what books do recommend; after all I've finished all of yours...
>>>
> <snip>
>>> Any recommendations?
> <snip>
>> Among current authors?  No.  For social/political reasons.
>>
>
> Well, from the realm of current authors I've pondered reading...
>
> What about Kathryn?  (your ex)  Would you(or anyone on the list for that
> matter)recommend her for reading?
>
>

First of all, it's Kathlyn.  Her stuff is pretty good.  I enjoyed 
reading it while she was working on those books.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: greater and lesser paths
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From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: greater and lesser paths
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I'd argue about the fact that the greater path "does more" damage. Ray on
a number of occasions has mentioned that just because one is termed
"greater" doesn't mean it is any more powerful. The term "Greater path"
is, as I interpret it a distinctly Tsurani term for that sort of magic.
For example, 'lesser path' magicians have different abilities that some
greater path people cannot emulate. (I.e. Kulgan's line-of-sight spell
used in ADaS). Pug's escape from the Warlord and his pets in Silverthorn
should be a shining example of the power of the 'lesser path'

> Personally, I think the differance is pretty simple. Besides the fact that greater path does more damage. I think that greater path demands a great more attention (mentaly)  to detail and drains the caster quicker. Plus the lack of the need for objects to channel the energy. Where as the lesser path you need an item. Rather it is a person or item such as Marcos's staff in the magician series. Now with the greater path and crossing deminsions I can see the need for item like the staff that Marcos gave Kulgan after he tripped on the island. Plus the fact that with lesser path it takes longer for the caster to get drained. Unless you have to continue to chant or otherwise make a motion. An example of that is: In the magician series where the group had to escape the attacking party in the fog that Kulgan conjured with the amulet he wore. He had to continue to do that till it was deemed safe. Now if Pug had the ability he had in Magician: Master he could have done that all day without any amulet. Please keep in mind that that is just my opinion.
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: RBlackley@aol.com
>   To: FEISTFANS-L
>   Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2002 9:36 PM
>   Subject: Re: greater and lesser paths
>
>
>   yeah, that exactly what I meant, no really it is.  lol
>
>
>   In a message dated 3/4/2002 10:35:08 AM Eastern Standard Time, raymond@bittersea.com writes:
>
>
>
>     Very complex question.
>
>     Let me sum up by saying, Greater Path is 100% "mental," i.e. the
>     magician reaches out and takes charge of Nakor's "stuff" and works it
>     around.  How much/little he/she can get out of it is a function of
>     talent.
>
>     Lesser Path's are more like shamans.  They use their own bodies,
>     objects, other creatures, etc. to channel the magic.
>
>     That's the best I can do in a short answer.
>
>     Best, R.E.F.
>     ----
>
>     Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
>     stupidity.
>
>
>
>   >From Richard
>

Thanks
Darragh
-=-=
www.iamtheporkfireman.com
[Email]: s356179@student.uq.edu.au [ICQ]: 114283262



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Subject: Re: greater and lesser paths
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From: "A Irving" <aignome@dingoblue.net.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: greater and lesser paths
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 17:45:11 +1000
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Also the battle in magician between kulgan and a great one when they are
looking into each others eyes. That mental battle was equal IIRC. One of the
greater path, one of the lesser path. Pug thought kulgan needed saving.....
and voila Pug got to where he is today in Ref's books. I hope i am
remembering this right, it has been way tooo long.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Darragh Murray" <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 5:24 PM
Subject: Re: greater and lesser paths


>
> I'd argue about the fact that the greater path "does more" damage. Ray on
> a number of occasions has mentioned that just because one is termed
> "greater" doesn't mean it is any more powerful. The term "Greater path"
> is, as I interpret it a distinctly Tsurani term for that sort of magic.
> For example, 'lesser path' magicians have different abilities that some
> greater path people cannot emulate. (I.e. Kulgan's line-of-sight spell
> used in ADaS). Pug's escape from the Warlord and his pets in Silverthorn
> should be a shining example of the power of the 'lesser path'
>
> > Personally, I think the differance is pretty simple. Besides the fact
> > that greater path does more damage. I think that greater path demands a
> > great more attention (mentaly)  to detail and drains the caster quicker.
> > Plus the lack of the need for objects to channel the energy. Where as the
> > lesser path you need an item. Rather it is a person or item such as Marcos's
> > staff in the magician series. Now with the greater path and crossing
> > deminsions I can see the need for item like the staff that Marcos gave
> > Kulgan after he tripped on the island. Plus the fact that with lesser path
> > it takes longer for the caster to get drained. Unless you have to continue
> > to chant or otherwise make a motion. An example of that is: In the magician
> > series where the group had to escape the attacking party in the fog that
> > Kulgan conjured with the amulet he wore. He had to continue to do that till
> > it was deemed safe. Now if Pug had the ability he had in Magician: Master he
> > could have done that all day without any amulet. Please keep in mind that that is just my opinion.
> >   ----- Original Message -----
> >   From: RBlackley@aol.com
> >   To: FEISTFANS-L
> >   Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2002 9:36 PM
> >   Subject: Re: greater and lesser paths
> >
> >
> >   yeah, that exactly what I meant, no really it is.  lol
> >
> >
> >   In a message dated 3/4/2002 10:35:08 AM Eastern Standard Time, raymond@bittersea.com writes:
> >
> >
> >
> >     Very complex question.
> >
> >     Let me sum up by saying, Greater Path is 100% "mental," i.e. the
> >     magician reaches out and takes charge of Nakor's "stuff" and works it
> >     around.  How much/little he/she can get out of it is a function of
> >     talent.
> >
> >     Lesser Path's are more like shamans.  They use their own bodies,
> >     objects, other creatures, etc. to channel the magic.
> >
> >     That's the best I can do in a short answer.
> >
> >     Best, R.E.F.
> >     ----
> >
> >     Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
> >     stupidity.
> >
> >
> >
> >   >From Richard
> >
>
> Thanks
> Darragh
> -=-=
> www.iamtheporkfireman.com
> [Email]: s356179@student.uq.edu.au [ICQ]: 114283262
>



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From: "Donal K. Fellows" <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk>
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In-reply-to: <Pine.OSF.4.30.0203071721580.2226-100000@student.uq.edu.au>
	(message from Darragh Murray on Thu, 7 Mar 2002 17:24:26 +1000
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Subject: Re: greater and lesser paths
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From: "Donal K. Fellows" <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: greater and lesser paths
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 09:22:27 +0000
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Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
> I'd argue about the fact that the greater path "does more" damage. Ray on
> a number of occasions has mentioned that just because one is termed
> "greater" doesn't mean it is any more powerful. The term "Greater path"
> is, as I interpret it a distinctly Tsurani term for that sort of magic.
> For example, 'lesser path' magicians have different abilities that some
> greater path people cannot emulate. (I.e. Kulgan's line-of-sight spell
> used in ADaS). Pug's escape from the Warlord and his pets in Silverthorn
> should be a shining example of the power of the 'lesser path'

This discussion has come up before, and one of the points made was
that a (high-level) lesser path magician could cause a lot more damage
by doing things like whipping up a hurricane or setting off a big
earthquake or volcanic eruption.  The greater and lesser paths are
different; at relatively low levels, greater tends to beat lesser, but
this swaps over at higher levels (and once you get high enough, it's
really a matter of who sees the other one coming! <g>)

Donal.
-- 
Donal K. Fellows, Department of Computer Science, University of Manchester, UK.
(work) fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk     Tel: +44-161-275-6137  (preferred email addr.)
(home) donal@ugglan.demon.co.uk  Tel: +44-1274-401017   Mobile: +44-7957-298955
http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~fellowsd/  (Don't quote my .sig; I've seen it before!)



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From: "William Marnoch" <william@wmarnoch.freeserve.co.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 16:04:24 -0000
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On 5 Mar 02, at 15:14, Nathan wrote:

> 
> What kind of English does Billy Boyd speak?

He's from Glasgow in Scotland IIRC. He certainly sounds 
Glaswegian in LOTR which wasn't really what I was expecting 
Pippin to sound like.

> He plays Pippin in LOTR. In an interview he pronounced e.g. "pipe" somehow
> like "pape".
> 
> Greetings
> Father Nathan


-- 
William Marnoch
william@wmarnoch.freeserve.co.uk
ICQ:77848483



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*** EOOH ***
From: "Donal K. Fellows" <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT weird English
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 16:10:47 +0000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

"William Marnoch" <william@wmarnoch.freeserve.co.uk>
> He's from Glasgow in Scotland IIRC. He certainly sounds 
> Glaswegian in LOTR which wasn't really what I was expecting 
> Pippin to sound like.

You were expecting Scouse (Liverpool) or Geordie (Newcastle)?  <g>

Donal.
-- 
Donal K. Fellows, Department of Computer Science, University of Manchester, UK.
(work) fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk     Tel: +44-161-275-6137  (preferred email addr.)
(home) donal@ugglan.demon.co.uk  Tel: +44-1274-401017   Mobile: +44-7957-298955
http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~fellowsd/  (Don't quote my .sig; I've seen it before!)



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From: "Michelle Thomson" <chell_40@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Definition Please
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 20:18:02 +0000
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From: "Michelle Thomson" <chell_40@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Definition Please
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 20:18:02 +0000
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Okay so I'm still new to this forum and it takes me ages to figure out what 
title you are refering to when you shorten it i.e BoK (Betrayal of Krondor) 
but one thing that I just don't understand is IIRC, what does it mean???? 
it's obviously not a book or other common short hand that I've come across 
in my limited internet experience.


Cheers

Michelle Thomson

_________________________________________________________________
Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
http://www.hotmail.com



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From: "Chris R Hoffman" <krazyman@advnet.net>
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Subject: RE: Definition Please
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 15:34:00 -0500
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Chris R Hoffman" <krazyman@advnet.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Definition Please
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 15:34:00 -0500
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If
I
Recall
Correctly


(goes back into lurk mode)

-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Michelle Thomson
>Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 3:18 PM
>To: FEISTFANS-L
>Subject: Definition Please
>
>
>Okay so I'm still new to this forum and it takes me ages to figure out what
>title you are refering to when you shorten it i.e BoK (Betrayal of Krondor)
>but one thing that I just don't understand is IIRC, what does it mean????
>it's obviously not a book or other common short hand that I've come across
>in my limited internet experience.
>
>
>Cheers
>
>Michelle Thomson
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
>http://www.hotmail.com
>






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Subject: RE: Definition Please
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 14:49:59 -0600
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From: "Lowder, Jason" <jasonl@spfld.kebcpa.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
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If I Remember Correctly

Jason Lowder, CPA, MCP
Network Administrator
Kerber, Eck & Braeckel, LLP
Business Line: 217/789-0960
-----Original Message-----
>From: Michelle Thomson [mailto:chell_40@hotmail.com] 
>Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 2:18 PM
>To: FEISTFANS-L
>Subject: Definition Please
>
>Okay so I'm still new to this forum and it takes me ages to figure out what 
>title you are refering to when you shorten it i.e BoK (Betrayal of Krondor) 
>but one thing that I just don't understand is IIRC, what does it mean???? 
>it's obviously not a book or other common short hand that I've come across 
>in my limited internet experience.
>
>
>Cheers
>
>Michelle Thomson
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Join the world's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
>http://www.hotmail.com
>


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From: "MChaloner" <markchaloner@btinternet.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Definition Please
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 20:43:35 -0000
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu 
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Michelle Thomson
> Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 8:18 PM
> To: FEISTFANS-L
> Subject: Definition Please
> Okay so I'm still new to this forum and it takes me ages to 
> figure out what 
> title you are refering to when you shorten it i.e BoK 
> (Betrayal of Krondor) 
> but one thing that I just don't understand is IIRC, what does 
> it mean???? 
> it's obviously not a book or other common short hand that 
> I've come across 
> in my limited internet experience.
> Cheers
> Michelle Thomson


Well, if I recall correctly - Hmm, yeah actually what does it mean?

---
mark ;-)
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
'A man who sees a god in his master, scarcely hopes for paradise'
- Marquis de Custine
markchaloner@btinternet.com



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"If I Remember Correctly"

----- Original Message -----
From: Michelle Thomson
Sent: 03/07/2002 3:18:02 PM
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Definition Please

> Okay so I'm still new to this forum and it takes me ages to figure out what 
> title you are refering to when you shorten it i.e BoK (Betrayal of Krondor) 
> but one thing that I just don't understand is IIRC, what does it mean???? 
> it's obviously not a book or other common short hand that I've come across 
> in my limited internet experience.
> 
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Michelle Thomson
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
> http://www.hotmail.com
> 



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From: "MChaloner" <markchaloner@btinternet.com>
To: "feistfans-l" <feistfans-l@cornell.edu>
Subject: Honest John
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 20:58:37 -0000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "MChaloner" <markchaloner@btinternet.com>
To: "feistfans-l" <feistfans-l@cornell.edu>
Subject: Honest John
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 20:58:37 -0000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I know you've said you don't want to do a book on the Hall of Worlds and
I cried about it <grins> but have you thought of writing about the life
of Honest John? Where he came from, how he stumbled across the Hall of
Worlds and how he came to  build the bar & inn? (That'd be a much better
story to tell I reckon).

---
mark ;-)
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
'A man who sees a god in his master, scarcely hopes for paradise'
- Marquis de Custine
markchaloner@btinternet.com



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From: "Dave Curran" <dave@davecurran.demon.co.uk>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Definition Please
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 20:57:55 -0000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Dave Curran" <dave@davecurran.demon.co.uk>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Definition Please
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 20:57:55 -0000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Michelle,

IIRC = "If I Recall Correctly"

I'm sure I came across this, and some other abbreviations,
in the FAQ...
One of the better informed members will, I'm sure, supply
you with the exact location. [soon!]

...Dave...

>
>one thing that I just don't understand is IIRC, what does it mean???? 
>it's obviously not a book or other common short hand that I've come across 
>in my limited internet experience.
>
>
>Cheers
>
>Michelle Thomson
>


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Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 16:55:09 EST
Subject: Re: internet gotta love it,  Audio Books - Question For Ray
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*** EOOH ***
From: RBlackley@aol.com
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 16:55:09 EST
Subject: Re: internet gotta love it,  Audio Books - Question For Ray
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Yeah I have never had a messed up disk, and that is w/ a standard burner.

In a message dated 3/6/2002 10:13:53 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
killkenny@thos.co.za writes:


> Subj:Re: internet gotta love it, Audio Books - Question For Ray 
> Date:3/6/2002 10:13:53 AM Eastern Standard Time
> From:<A HREF="mailto:killkenny@thos.co.za">killkenny@thos.co.za</A>
> Reply-to:<A HREF="mailto:FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu">FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu</A>
> To:<A HREF="mailto:FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu">FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu</A>
> Sent from the Internet 
> 
> 
> 
> Or you could just get a Plextor Writer. I have written about 150 disks and, 
> 
> not messed up one!
> 
> At 11:07 PM 3/5/02 -0500, you wrote:
> >I just recently actually learned the best way to run my CD burner, but 
> after
> >many ruined disks. Now that the only reason I throw away a disk is if 
> there
> >is an error on it. This last batch of recordable cds I have had to throw
> >away two. Not bad for out of 50 disks. I have a blast finding new Mp3 
> sites.
> >Just to see if there are any songs I couldn't find before. So when you get
> >one learn how to use it from trial and error. You will love the number of
> >music cds you will make. Up to date 40 cds here.  You just gotta love the
> >internet
> >


>From Richard

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From: Joshua Stanton <jasharkalain@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Definition Please
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 13:56:55 -0800 (PST)
From: Joshua Stanton <jasharkalain@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Definition Please
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Well, don't we all feel smart, now.
<g>,
Joshua

--- Chris R Hoffman <krazyman@advnet.net> wrote:
> If
> I
> Recall
> Correctly

--- MChaloner <markchaloner@btinternet.com> wrote:
> Well, if I recall correctly - Hmm, yeah actually
> what does it mean?
> 
> ---
> mark ;-)

--- "Lowder, Jason" <jasonl@spfld.kebcpa.com> wrote:
> If I Remember Correctly

--- Dave Curran <dave@davecurran.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> Michelle,
> 
> IIRC = "If I Recall Correctly"
> 







--- Michelle Thomson <chell_40@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Okay so I'm still new to this forum and it takes me
> ages to figure out what 
> title you are refering to when you shorten it i.e
> BoK (Betrayal of Krondor) 
> but one thing that I just don't understand is IIRC,
> what does it mean???? 
> it's obviously not a book or other common short hand
> that I've come across 
> in my limited internet experience.
> 
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Michelle Thomson
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN
> Hotmail. 
> http://www.hotmail.com
> 


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To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
References: <145.aa82ad7.29b93bbd@aol.com>
Subject: Re: internet gotta love it,  Audio Books - Question For Ray
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Andrew" <abizet@woh.rr.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: internet gotta love it,  Audio Books - Question For Ray
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 17:27:00 -0500
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I have messed them up, but just because I was not fully aware of how
to operate it. Now that I do know how. I just throw away the disk that
has errors on them. which some do.
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: RBlackley@aol.com 
>To: FEISTFANS-L 
>Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 4:55 PM
>Subject: Re: internet gotta love it, Audio Books - Question For Ray
>
>
>Yeah I have never had a messed up disk, and that is w/ a standard burner.
>
>In a message dated 3/6/2002 10:13:53 AM Eastern Standard Time, killkenny@thos.co.za writes:
>
>
>
>>Subj:Re: internet gotta love it, Audio Books - Question For Ray 
>>Date:3/6/2002 10:13:53 AM Eastern Standard Time
>>From:killkenny@thos.co.za
>>Reply-to:FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>>To:FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>>Sent from the Internet 
>>
>>
>>
>>Or you could just get a Plextor Writer. I have written about 150 disks and, 
>>not messed up one!
>>
>>At 11:07 PM 3/5/02 -0500, you wrote:
>>>I just recently actually learned the best way to run my CD burner, but after
>>>many ruined disks. Now that the only reason I throw away a disk is if there
>>>is an error on it. This last batch of recordable cds I have had to throw
>>>away two. Not bad for out of 50 disks. I have a blast finding new Mp3 sites.
>>>Just to see if there are any songs I couldn't find before. So when you get
>>>one learn how to use it from trial and error. You will love the number of
>>>music cds you will make. Up to date 40 cds here.  You just gotta love the
>>>internet
>>>
>
>
>
>From Richard 

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References: <NFBBKOHMNLCDNNLBCLKKMEHECBAA.dave@davecurran.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Definition Please
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From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Definition Please
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 18:45:23 -0600
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I have a lengthy list posted by someone to this list ages ago that I
have kept in a file on hand if anyone wants to have a copy of it (a
medium sized txt file)

-James

----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Curran" <dave@davecurran.demon.co.uk>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 2:57 PM
Subject: RE: Definition Please


> Michelle,
>
> IIRC = "If I Recall Correctly"
>
> I'm sure I came across this, and some other abbreviations,
> in the FAQ...
> One of the better informed members will, I'm sure, supply
> you with the exact location. [soon!]
>
> ...Dave...
>
>
> one thing that I just don't understand is IIRC, what does it mean????
> it's obviously not a book or other common short hand that I've come across
> in my limited internet experience.
>
>
> Cheers
>
> Michelle Thomson
>



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Subject: Re: Definition Please
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Andrew" <abizet@woh.rr.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Definition Please
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 20:23:21 -0500
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I too was wondering what that meant, but I figured that if I were meant to
know then I would already know.

----- Original Message -----
From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 7:45 PM
Subject: Re: Definition Please


> I have a lengthy list posted by someone to this list ages ago that I
> have kept in a file on hand if anyone wants to have a copy of it (a
> medium sized txt file)
>
> -James
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dave Curran" <dave@davecurran.demon.co.uk>
> To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 2:57 PM
> Subject: RE: Definition Please
>
>
> > Michelle,
> >
> > IIRC = "If I Recall Correctly"
> >
> > I'm sure I came across this, and some other abbreviations,
> > in the FAQ...
> > One of the better informed members will, I'm sure, supply
> > you with the exact location. [soon!]
> >
> > ...Dave...
> >
> >
> > one thing that I just don't understand is IIRC, what does it
> mean????
> > it's obviously not a book or other common short hand that I've
> come across
> > in my limited internet experience.
> >
> >
> > Cheers
> >
> > Michelle Thomson
> >
>
>



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Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 17:22:08 -0800
Subject: Re: Honest John
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 17:22:08 -0800
Subject: Re: Honest John
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Thursday, March 7, 2002, at 12:58 PM, MChaloner wrote:

> I know you've said you don't want to do a book on the Hall of Worlds and
> I cried about it <grins> but have you thought of writing about the life
> of Honest John? Where he came from, how he stumbled across the Hall of
> Worlds and how he came to  build the bar & inn? (That'd be a much better
> story to tell I reckon).
>

Nope.  I know that story, so feel no need to bother writing it down.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
From: "Donal K. Fellows" <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Definition Please
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 10:52:30 +0000
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"Dave Curran" <dave@davecurran.demon.co.uk>
> IIRC = "If I Recall Correctly"
> 
> I'm sure I came across this, and some other abbreviations, in the
> FAQ...  One of the better informed members will, I'm sure, supply
> you with the exact location. [soon!]

"IIRC" is a De-Facto Standard Internet Abbreviation, used all over the
place.  There are many collections that list this sort of thing, but
one of my favourites is http://wiki.tcl.tk/49.html largely because
you can extend it yourself.  Community-driven efforts are some of the
best things on the web...

Donal.
-- 
Donal K. Fellows, Department of Computer Science, University of Manchester, UK.
(work) fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk     Tel: +44-161-275-6137  (preferred email addr.)
(home) donal@ugglan.demon.co.uk  Tel: +44-1274-401017   Mobile: +44-7957-298955
http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~fellowsd/  (Don't quote my .sig; I've seen it before!)



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From: RBlackley@aol.com
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 06:57:09 EST
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James, I would be interested in a copy.


In a message dated 3/7/2002 8:12:30 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
jajy@earthlink.net writes:


> 
> I have a lengthy list posted by someone to this list ages ago that I
> have kept in a file on hand if anyone wants to have a copy of it (a
> medium sized txt file)
> 
> -James
> 


From Richard

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From: Fred Collington <fcolling@yahoo.com>
Subject: Say it ain't so, Ray
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 05:30:27 -0800 (PST)
From: Fred Collington <fcolling@yahoo.com>
Subject: Say it ain't so, Ray
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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<snip>
>Nope.  I know that story, so feel no need to bother
>writing it down.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
<snip>
Ray, Does this mean you don't know where your stories
are going before you write them? Do the story paths
sometimes surprise you when you get them down on paper
(or disk)?

Or perhaps you are just teasing us....a good tale we
will never know.... <sigh>

Cheers,
Fred

__________________________________________________
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 06:55:20 -0800
Subject: Re: Say it ain't so, Ray
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Friday, March 8, 2002, at 05:30 AM, Fred Collington wrote:

> <snip>
> Nope.  I know that story, so feel no need to bother
> writing it down.
>
> Best, R.E.F.
> <snip>
> Ray, Does this mean you don't know where your stories
> are going before you write them? Do the story paths
> sometimes surprise you when you get them down on paper
> (or disk)?

Sometimes.  I know where I'm going.  Sometimes I don't know how I'm 
going to get there.

Best, R.E.F.

----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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From: Dun Xiahou <xiahoudun13@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: internet gotta love it,  Audio Books - Question For Ray
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
In-Reply-To: <001601c1c627$33332aa0$88cda618@woh.rr.com>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 08:31:07 -0800 (PST)
From: Dun Xiahou <xiahoudun13@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: internet gotta love it,  Audio Books - Question For Ray
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Believe it or not, much of whether a CD gets messed up
during burning has to do with the software.  Some
software is more likely to screw up CDs.  Easy CD
Creator used to be an absolutely dreadful program that
destroyed roughly 70% of all CDs in most CD Burners. 
It's gotten better though.  Also, "testing" a CD
during a burn can actually screw it up.  Never test
the CD, if it has an error, testing it won't help you
anyway.

- Xiahou Dun


--- Andrew <abizet@woh.rr.com> wrote:
> I have messed them up, but just because I was not
> fully aware of how to operate it. Now that I do know
> how. I just throw away the disk that has errors on
> them. which some do.
>   ----- Original Message ----- 
>   From: RBlackley@aol.com 
>   To: FEISTFANS-L 
>   Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 4:55 PM
>   Subject: Re: internet gotta love it, Audio Books -
> Question For Ray
> 
> 
>   Yeah I have never had a messed up disk, and that
> is w/ a standard burner.
> 
>   In a message dated 3/6/2002 10:13:53 AM Eastern
> Standard Time, killkenny@thos.co.za writes:
> 
> 
> 
>     Subj:Re: internet gotta love it, Audio Books -
> Question For Ray 
>     Date:3/6/2002 10:13:53 AM Eastern Standard Time
>     From:killkenny@thos.co.za
>     Reply-to:FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>     To:FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>     Sent from the Internet 
> 
> 
> 
>     Or you could just get a Plextor Writer. I have
> written about 150 disks and, 
>     not messed up one!
> 
>     At 11:07 PM 3/5/02 -0500, you wrote:
>     >I just recently actually learned the best way
> to run my CD burner, but after
>     >many ruined disks. Now that the only reason I
> throw away a disk is if there
>     >is an error on it. This last batch of
> recordable cds I have had to throw
>     >away two. Not bad for out of 50 disks. I have a
> blast finding new Mp3 sites.
>     >Just to see if there are any songs I couldn't
> find before. So when you get
>     >one learn how to use it from trial and error.
> You will love the number of
>     >music cds you will make. Up to date 40 cds
> here.  You just gotta love the
>     >internet
>     >
> 
> 
> 
>   >From Richard 
> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/



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Subject: [OT] RE: Definition Please
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 08:33:23 -0800
Message-ID: <917063BAB0DDB043AF5FAA73C7A835D4106741@windlord.WWP.COM>
Thread-Topic: Definition Please
Thread-Index: AcHGkTS6epZddDwrRr2/HddrbGFv5QALYF0g
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From: "Stuart Johnson" <Stuart.Johnson@worldwidepackets.com>
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*** EOOH ***
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Subject: [OT] RE: Definition Please
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 08:33:23 -0800
Thread-Topic: Definition Please
Thread-Index: AcHGkTS6epZddDwrRr2/HddrbGFv5QALYF0g
From: "Stuart Johnson" <Stuart.Johnson@worldwidepackets.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

http://www.acronymfinder.com/

is also extendable by users, years ago i added tons of Ethernet
related acronyms for example.

enjoy.

-stuart

-----Original Message-----
>From: Donal K. Fellows [mailto:fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk]
>Sent: Friday, March 08, 2002 2:53 AM
>To: FEISTFANS-L
>Subject: Re: Definition Please
>
>
>"Dave Curran" <dave@davecurran.demon.co.uk>
>> IIRC = "If I Recall Correctly"
>> 
>> I'm sure I came across this, and some other abbreviations, in the
>> FAQ...  One of the better informed members will, I'm sure, supply
>> you with the exact location. [soon!]
>
>"IIRC" is a De-Facto Standard Internet Abbreviation, used all over the
>place.  There are many collections that list this sort of thing, but
>one of my favourites is http://wiki.tcl.tk/49.html largely because
>you can extend it yourself.  Community-driven efforts are some of the
>best things on the web...
>
>Donal.
>-- 
>Donal K. Fellows, Department of Computer Science, University of Manchester, UK.
>(work) fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk     Tel: +44-161-275-6137  (preferred email addr.)
>(home) donal@ugglan.demon.co.uk  Tel: +44-1274-401017   Mobile: +44-7957-298955
>http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~fellowsd/  (Don't quote my .sig; I've seen it before!)
>


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Subject: Re: internet gotta love it,  Audio Books - Question For Ray
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 20:40:29 -0500
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Rich" <richse@eden.rutgers.edu>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: internet gotta love it,  Audio Books - Question For Ray
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 20:40:29 -0500
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


I disagree with you, the testing option on all the burning programs I have
used including Easy CD, Nero, Fireburner, CDRWin, Disc Juggler, and Clone CD
have all done simulated burns. The simulation looks for errors without
messing up a cd.  Quite a few times I have saved CD's by doing a test before
a burn.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Dun Xiahou" <xiahoudun13@yahoo.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Friday, March 08, 2002 11:31 AM
Subject: Re: internet gotta love it, Audio Books - Question For Ray


> Believe it or not, much of whether a CD gets messed up
> during burning has to do with the software.  Some
> software is more likely to screw up CDs.  Easy CD
> Creator used to be an absolutely dreadful program that
> destroyed roughly 70% of all CDs in most CD Burners.
> It's gotten better though.  Also, "testing" a CD
> during a burn can actually screw it up.  Never test
> the CD, if it has an error, testing it won't help you
> anyway.
>
> - Xiahou Dun
>
>
> --- Andrew <abizet@woh.rr.com> wrote:
> > I have messed them up, but just because I was not
> > fully aware of how to operate it. Now that I do know
> > how. I just throw away the disk that has errors on
> > them. which some do.
> >   ----- Original Message -----
> >   From: RBlackley@aol.com
> >   To: FEISTFANS-L
> >   Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 4:55 PM
> >   Subject: Re: internet gotta love it, Audio Books -
> > Question For Ray
> >
> >
> >   Yeah I have never had a messed up disk, and that
> > is w/ a standard burner.
> >
> >   In a message dated 3/6/2002 10:13:53 AM Eastern
> > Standard Time, killkenny@thos.co.za writes:
> >
> >
> >
> >     Subj:Re: internet gotta love it, Audio Books -
> > Question For Ray
> >     Date:3/6/2002 10:13:53 AM Eastern Standard Time
> >     From:killkenny@thos.co.za
> >     Reply-to:FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> >     To:FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> >     Sent from the Internet
> >
> >
> >
> >     Or you could just get a Plextor Writer. I have
> > written about 150 disks and,
> >     not messed up one!
> >
> >     At 11:07 PM 3/5/02 -0500, you wrote:
> >     >I just recently actually learned the best way
> > to run my CD burner, but after
> >     >many ruined disks. Now that the only reason I
> > throw away a disk is if there
> >     >is an error on it. This last batch of
> > recordable cds I have had to throw
> >     >away two. Not bad for out of 50 disks. I have a
> > blast finding new Mp3 sites.
> >     >Just to see if there are any songs I couldn't
> > find before. So when you get
> >     >one learn how to use it from trial and error.
> > You will love the number of
> >     >music cds you will make. Up to date 40 cds
> > here.  You just gotta love the
> >     >internet
> >     >
> >
> >
> >
> >   >From Richard
> >
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
> http://mail.yahoo.com/
>



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To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
References: <20020308163107.78276.qmail@web10403.mail.yahoo.com> <004f01c1c70b$64ccde00$b50817ac@milamber>
Subject: Re: internet gotta love it,  Audio Books - Question For Ray
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 22:54:38 -0500
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Andrew" <abizet@woh.rr.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: internet gotta love it,  Audio Books - Question For Ray
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 22:54:38 -0500
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I have ce extreme. it test the cds before it burs them as part of its
program. If there is an error it will beep and spit the cd out and not
record on it

----- Original Message -----
From: "Rich" <richse@eden.rutgers.edu>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Friday, March 08, 2002 8:40 PM
Subject: Re: internet gotta love it, Audio Books - Question For Ray


>
> I disagree with you, the testing option on all the burning programs I have
> used including Easy CD, Nero, Fireburner, CDRWin, Disc Juggler, and Clone CD
> have all done simulated burns. The simulation looks for errors without
> messing up a cd.  Quite a few times I have saved CD's by doing a test before
> a burn.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dun Xiahou" <xiahoudun13@yahoo.com>
> To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> Sent: Friday, March 08, 2002 11:31 AM
> Subject: Re: internet gotta love it, Audio Books - Question For Ray
>
>
> > Believe it or not, much of whether a CD gets messed up
> > during burning has to do with the software.  Some
> > software is more likely to screw up CDs.  Easy CD
> > Creator used to be an absolutely dreadful program that
> > destroyed roughly 70% of all CDs in most CD Burners.
> > It's gotten better though.  Also, "testing" a CD
> > during a burn can actually screw it up.  Never test
> > the CD, if it has an error, testing it won't help you
> > anyway.
> >
> > - Xiahou Dun
> >
> >
> > --- Andrew <abizet@woh.rr.com> wrote:
> > > I have messed them up, but just because I was not
> > > fully aware of how to operate it. Now that I do know
> > > how. I just throw away the disk that has errors on
> > > them. which some do.
> > >   ----- Original Message -----
> > >   From: RBlackley@aol.com
> > >   To: FEISTFANS-L
> > >   Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 4:55 PM
> > >   Subject: Re: internet gotta love it, Audio Books -
> > > Question For Ray
> > >
> > >
> > >   Yeah I have never had a messed up disk, and that
> > > is w/ a standard burner.
> > >
> > >   In a message dated 3/6/2002 10:13:53 AM Eastern
> > > Standard Time, killkenny@thos.co.za writes:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >     Subj:Re: internet gotta love it, Audio Books -
> > > Question For Ray
> > >     Date:3/6/2002 10:13:53 AM Eastern Standard Time
> > >     From:killkenny@thos.co.za
> > >     Reply-to:FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > >     To:FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > >     Sent from the Internet
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >     Or you could just get a Plextor Writer. I have
> > > written about 150 disks and,
> > >     not messed up one!
> > >
> > >     At 11:07 PM 3/5/02 -0500, you wrote:
> > >     >I just recently actually learned the best way
> > > to run my CD burner, but after
> > >     >many ruined disks. Now that the only reason I
> > > throw away a disk is if there
> > >     >is an error on it. This last batch of
> > > recordable cds I have had to throw
> > >     >away two. Not bad for out of 50 disks. I have a
> > > blast finding new Mp3 sites.
> > >     >Just to see if there are any songs I couldn't
> > > find before. So when you get
> > >     >one learn how to use it from trial and error.
> > > You will love the number of
> > >     >music cds you will make. Up to date 40 cds
> > > here.  You just gotta love the
> > >     >internet
> > >     >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >   >From Richard
> > >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
> > http://mail.yahoo.com/
> >
>
>



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From: "Michelle Thomson" <chell_40@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: [OT] RE: Definition Please
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 06:10:28 +0000
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From: "Michelle Thomson" <chell_40@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: [OT] RE: Definition Please
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 06:10:28 +0000
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Thanks guys, I'll be sure to check out both these sites in the future.

Michelle


>From: "Stuart Johnson" <Stuart.Johnson@worldwidepackets.com>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
>Subject: [OT] RE: Definition Please
>Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 08:33:23 -0800
>
>http://www.acronymfinder.com/
>
>is also extendable by users, years ago i added tons of Ethernet related 
>acronyms for example.
>
>enjoy.
>
>-stuart
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Donal K. Fellows [mailto:fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk]
>Sent: Friday, March 08, 2002 2:53 AM
>To: FEISTFANS-L
>Subject: Re: Definition Please
>
>
>"Dave Curran" <dave@davecurran.demon.co.uk>
> > IIRC = "If I Recall Correctly"
> >
> > I'm sure I came across this, and some other abbreviations, in the
> > FAQ...  One of the better informed members will, I'm sure, supply
> > you with the exact location. [soon!]
>
>"IIRC" is a De-Facto Standard Internet Abbreviation, used all over the
>place.  There are many collections that list this sort of thing, but
>one of my favourites is http://wiki.tcl.tk/49.html largely because
>you can extend it yourself.  Community-driven efforts are some of the
>best things on the web...
>
>Donal.
>--
>Donal K. Fellows, Department of Computer Science, University of Manchester, 
>UK.
>(work) fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk     Tel: +44-161-275-6137  (preferred email 
>addr.)
>(home) donal@ugglan.demon.co.uk  Tel: +44-1274-401017   Mobile: 
>+44-7957-298955
>http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~fellowsd/  (Don't quote my .sig; I've seen it 
>before!)
>




_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com



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Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 17:02:56 EST
Subject: Re: Say it ain't so, Ray
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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*** EOOH ***
From: Gkhd11a@aol.com
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 17:02:56 EST
Subject: Re: Say it ain't so, Ray
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

>Sometimes.  I know where I'm going.  Sometimes I don't know how I'm 
>going to get there.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
>stupidity.

       Ironicly, I just finished writing a scene that I thought would go one 
way, yet something completely different happend.  Now only if I people would 
pay me large sums of money for it.  As the whiners would say, why do people 
who do better than me deserve it more than I do?  But I would never whin...

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From: "Rachel Unwin" <jeddasw@hotmail.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Say it ain't so, Ray
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 10:01:39 +1100
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*** EOOH ***
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From: "Rachel Unwin" <jeddasw@hotmail.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Say it ain't so, Ray
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 10:01:39 +1100
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Dear R.E.F,

Are you really Raymond E. Feist or is this someones idea of a mean joke?

Regards, Rachel.  
  
----- Original Message -----
>From: Gkhd11a@aol.com
>Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2002 9:24 AM
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: Re: Say it ain't so, Ray
>  
>>Sometimes.  I know where I'm going.  Sometimes I don't know how I'm  
>>going to get there.  
>>  
>>Best, R.E.F.  
>>  
>>----  
>>  
>>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by  
>>stupidity.  
>
>      Ironicly, I just finished writing a scene that I thought would
> go one way, yet something completely different happend.  Now only if
> I people would pay me large sums of money for it.  As the whiners
> would say, why do people who do better than me deserve it more than
> I do?  But I would never whin... Get more from the Web.  FREE MSN
> Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com >

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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu, <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
From: LAR <lds627@attbi.com>
Subject: Re: Say it ain't so, Ray
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 15:21:35 -0800
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu, <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
From: LAR <lds627@attbi.com>
Subject: Re: Say it ain't so, Ray
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

He's De Man. OR at least I hope so, otherwise my autographed ARC of Shards 
of a broken crown is a damn good imitation.

Larry


At 10:01 AM 3/10/02 +1100, Rachel Unwin wrote:
>Dear R.E.F,
>
>Are you really Raymond E. Feist or is this someones idea of a mean joke?
>
>Regards, Rachel.
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Gkhd11a@aol.com
>Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2002 9:24 AM
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: Re: Say it ain't so, Ray
>
> >Sometimes.  I know where I'm going.  Sometimes I don't know how I'm
> >going to get there.
> >
> >Best, R.E.F.
> >
> >----
> >
> >Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
> >stupidity.
>
>       Ironicly, I just finished writing a scene that I thought would go 
> one way, yet something completely different happend.  Now only if I 
> people would pay me large sums of money for it.  As the whiners would 
> say, why do people who do better than me deserve it more than I do?  But 
> I would never whin...
>
>
>
>----------
>Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com



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From: "Rachel Unwin" <jeddasw@hotmail.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Say it ain't so, Ray
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 11:12:34 +1100
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*** EOOH ***
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From: "Rachel Unwin" <jeddasw@hotmail.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Say it ain't so, Ray
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 11:12:34 +1100
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Mar 2002 00:12:23.0298 (UTC) FILETIME=[4085C620:01C1C7C8]
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Sorry everyone, am new to feistfans and accidentally sent a message to
everyone....won't happen again but thanks for reassuring me LAR.

Regards, Rachel  
  
----- Original Message -----
>From: LAR
>Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2002 10:46 AM
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu; FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: Re: Say it ain't so, Ray
>  
>He's De Man. OR at least I hope so, otherwise my autographed ARC of Shards
>of a broken crown is a damn good imitation.
>
>Larry
>
>
>At 10:01 AM 3/10/02 +1100, Rachel Unwin wrote:
>>Dear R.E.F,
>>
>>Are you really Raymond E. Feist or is this someones idea of a mean joke?
>>
>>Regards, Rachel.
>>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: Gkhd11a@aol.com
>>Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2002 9:24 AM
>>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>>Subject: Re: Say it ain't so, Ray
>>
>> >Sometimes.  I know where I'm going.  Sometimes I don't know how I'm
>> >going to get there.
>> >
>> >Best, R.E.F.
>> >
>> >----
>> >
>> >Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
>> >stupidity.
>>
>>       Ironicly, I just finished writing a scene that I thought would go
>> one way, yet something completely different happend.  Now only if I
>> people would pay me large sums of money for it.  As the whiners would
>> say, why do people who do better than me deserve it more than I do?  But
>> I would never whin...
>>
>>
>>
>>----------
>>Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.comGet more from the Web.  FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com

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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Say it ain't so, Ray
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*** EOOH ***
From: dreamfish@space.com
X-Sent: 10 Mar 2002 03:52:55 GMT
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Say it ain't so, Ray
X-Sent-From: dreamfish@space.com
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 19:52:54 -0800 (PST)
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

On Sun, 10 March 2002, "Rachel Unwin" wrote:

>Are you really Raymond E. Feist or is this someones
>idea of a mean joke?

 heeheehee, 
 Rachel...at least you didn't get the 'Who playing Ray
today'...pretty cool Ray really answers Qs here, and
just kinda hangs out*, huh?  

Welcome to the Wonderful, Wacky World of the Feistfans
list! 

 Anita


 'Every happy ending needs to have a start.'

___________________________________________________________________
Join the Space Program: Get FREE E-mail at http://www.space.com.



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Subject: Re: Say it ain't so, Ray
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 23:04:51 -0600
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Say it ain't so, Ray
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 23:04:51 -0600
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Aww, but that joke is so funny!  (Besides sooner or later it is
gonna be my turn. LOL)

----- Original Message -----
From: <dreamfish@space.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Saturday, March 09, 2002 9:52 PM
Subject: Re: Say it ain't so, Ray


> On Sun, 10 March 2002, "Rachel Unwin" wrote:
>
> >Are you really Raymond E. Feist or is this someones
> >idea of a mean joke?
>
>  heeheehee,
>  Rachel...at least you didn't get the 'Who playing Ray
> today'...pretty cool Ray really answers Qs here, and
> just kinda hangs out*, huh?
>
> Welcome to the Wonderful, Wacky World of the Feistfans
> list!
>
>  Anita
>
>
>  'Every happy ending needs to have a start.'
>
>___________________________________________________________________
> Join the Space Program: Get FREE E-mail at http://www.space.com.
>



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Subject: Re: subscribe feistfans-l Paul Duthie
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Barker" <heechee@softhome.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: subscribe feistfans-l Paul Duthie
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 21:32:40 +1100
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Paul Duthie" <pduthie@ncable.net.au>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Monday, March 11, 2002 9:24 PM
Subject: subscribe feistfans-l Paul Duthie


> subscribe feistfans-l Paul Duthie
> 

You need to send this one to listproc@cornell.edu

And yeah, the list is damn quiet today... I tried the same thing

Cheers,
James



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 21:50:59 +1100
From: Paul Duthie <pduthie@ncable.net.au>
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Organization: dd Computing
To: James Barker <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re[2]: subscribe feistfans-l Paul Duthie
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Hello All

I thought something was up...

I also thought I'd sent my original message to the correct place - It
was the third time I tried - the first 2 had the wrong format.

Monday, March 11, 2002, 9:32:40 PM, you wrote:


JB> ----- Original Message ----- 
JB> From: "Paul Duthie" <pduthie@ncable.net.au>
JB> To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
JB> Sent: Monday, March 11, 2002 9:24 PM
JB> Subject: subscribe feistfans-l Paul Duthie


>> subscribe feistfans-l Paul Duthie
>> 

JB> You need to send this one to listproc@cornell.edu

JB> And yeah, the list is damn quiet today... I tried the same thing

JB> Cheers,
JB> James



-- 
Best regards,
 Paul                            mailto:pduthie@ncable.net.au



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Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 06:19:52 -0800 (PST)
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From: Dun Xiahou <xiahoudun13@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: internet gotta love it,  Audio Books - Question For Ray
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 06:19:52 -0800 (PST)
From: Dun Xiahou <xiahoudun13@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: internet gotta love it,  Audio Books - Question For Ray
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

How does that save you anything?  If the CD has errors
there is nothing you can do about it; it is garbage. 
What is the point of testing the CD?  What could it
possibly yield that just going through with the burn
wouldn't do?
When I do a burn and the CD really does have an error
on it, it does the same thing, spits the CD out and
stops.  Doing a test-burn takes the same amount of
time as doing a regular burn, so it's just time wasted
in my book.  If the CD has an error on it, you can't
write to it and testing it won't fix that.

- Xiahou Dun

--- Andrew <abizet@woh.rr.com> wrote:
> I have ce extreme. it test the cds before it burs
> them as part of its
> program. If there is an error it will beep and spit
> the cd out and not
> record on it
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Rich" <richse@eden.rutgers.edu>
> To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> Sent: Friday, March 08, 2002 8:40 PM
> Subject: Re: internet gotta love it, Audio Books -
> Question For Ray
> 
> 
> >
> > I disagree with you, the testing option on all the
> burning programs I have
> > used including Easy CD, Nero, Fireburner, CDRWin,
> Disc Juggler, and Clone
> CD
> > have all done simulated burns. The simulation
> looks for errors without
> > messing up a cd.  Quite a few times I have saved
> CD's by doing a test
> before
> > a burn.
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Dun Xiahou" <xiahoudun13@yahoo.com>
> > To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> > Sent: Friday, March 08, 2002 11:31 AM
> > Subject: Re: internet gotta love it, Audio Books -
> Question For Ray
> >
> >
> > > Believe it or not, much of whether a CD gets
> messed up
> > > during burning has to do with the software. 
> Some
> > > software is more likely to screw up CDs.  Easy
> CD
> > > Creator used to be an absolutely dreadful
> program that
> > > destroyed roughly 70% of all CDs in most CD
> Burners.
> > > It's gotten better though.  Also, "testing" a CD
> > > during a burn can actually screw it up.  Never
> test
> > > the CD, if it has an error, testing it won't
> help you
> > > anyway.
> > >
> > > - Xiahou Dun
> > >
> > >
> > > --- Andrew <abizet@woh.rr.com> wrote:
> > > > I have messed them up, but just because I was
> not
> > > > fully aware of how to operate it. Now that I
> do know
> > > > how. I just throw away the disk that has
> errors on
> > > > them. which some do.
> > > >   ----- Original Message -----
> > > >   From: RBlackley@aol.com
> > > >   To: FEISTFANS-L
> > > >   Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 4:55 PM
> > > >   Subject: Re: internet gotta love it, Audio
> Books -
> > > > Question For Ray
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >   Yeah I have never had a messed up disk, and
> that
> > > > is w/ a standard burner.
> > > >
> > > >   In a message dated 3/6/2002 10:13:53 AM
> Eastern
> > > > Standard Time, killkenny@thos.co.za writes:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >     Subj:Re: internet gotta love it, Audio
> Books -
> > > > Question For Ray
> > > >     Date:3/6/2002 10:13:53 AM Eastern Standard
> Time
> > > >     From:killkenny@thos.co.za
> > > >     Reply-to:FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > > >     To:FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > > >     Sent from the Internet
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >     Or you could just get a Plextor Writer. I
> have
> > > > written about 150 disks and,
> > > >     not messed up one!
> > > >
> > > >     At 11:07 PM 3/5/02 -0500, you wrote:
> > > >     >I just recently actually learned the best
> way
> > > > to run my CD burner, but after
> > > >     >many ruined disks. Now that the only
> reason I
> > > > throw away a disk is if there
> > > >     >is an error on it. This last batch of
> > > > recordable cds I have had to throw
> > > >     >away two. Not bad for out of 50 disks. I
> have a
> > > > blast finding new Mp3 sites.
> > > >     >Just to see if there are any songs I
> couldn't
> > > > find before. So when you get
> > > >     >one learn how to use it from trial and
> error.
> > > > You will love the number of
> > > >     >music cds you will make. Up to date 40
> cds
> > > > here.  You just gotta love the
> > > >     >internet
> > > >     >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >   >From Richard
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> __________________________________________________
> > > Do You Yahoo!?
> > > Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free
> email!
> > > http://mail.yahoo.com/
> > >
> >
> >
> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/



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Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 16:29:41 +0200
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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Kenneth Jones <killkenny@thos.co.za>
Subject: Re: internet gotta love it,  Audio Books - Question For Ray
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 16:29:41 +0200
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Kenneth Jones <killkenny@thos.co.za>
Subject: Re: internet gotta love it,  Audio Books - Question For Ray
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I think you are missing the point that if an error occurs during the 
writing process, your CD is screwed!!

However it you are testing, then nothing is being written to the CD, so you 
can still use the CD for future use.

Just thought I should throw in my 2 cents.

Regards,
Kenneth Jones

At 06:19 AM 3/11/02 -0800, you wrote:
>How does that save you anything?  If the CD has errors
>there is nothing you can do about it; it is garbage.
>What is the point of testing the CD?  What could it
>possibly yield that just going through with the burn
>wouldn't do?
>When I do a burn and the CD really does have an error
>on it, it does the same thing, spits the CD out and
>stops.  Doing a test-burn takes the same amount of
>time as doing a regular burn, so it's just time wasted
>in my book.  If the CD has an error on it, you can't
>write to it and testing it won't fix that.
>
>- Xiahou Dun
>
>--- Andrew <abizet@woh.rr.com> wrote:
> > I have ce extreme. it test the cds before it burs
> > them as part of its
> > program. If there is an error it will beep and spit
> > the cd out and not
> > record on it
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Rich" <richse@eden.rutgers.edu>
> > To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> > Sent: Friday, March 08, 2002 8:40 PM
> > Subject: Re: internet gotta love it, Audio Books -
> > Question For Ray
> >
> >
> > >
> > > I disagree with you, the testing option on all the
> > burning programs I have
> > > used including Easy CD, Nero, Fireburner, CDRWin,
> > Disc Juggler, and Clone
> > CD
> > > have all done simulated burns. The simulation
> > looks for errors without
> > > messing up a cd.  Quite a few times I have saved
> > CD's by doing a test
> > before
> > > a burn.
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Dun Xiahou" <xiahoudun13@yahoo.com>
> > > To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> > > Sent: Friday, March 08, 2002 11:31 AM
> > > Subject: Re: internet gotta love it, Audio Books -
> > Question For Ray
> > >
> > >
> > > > Believe it or not, much of whether a CD gets
> > messed up
> > > > during burning has to do with the software.
> > Some
> > > > software is more likely to screw up CDs.  Easy
> > CD
> > > > Creator used to be an absolutely dreadful
> > program that
> > > > destroyed roughly 70% of all CDs in most CD
> > Burners.
> > > > It's gotten better though.  Also, "testing" a CD
> > > > during a burn can actually screw it up.  Never
> > test
> > > > the CD, if it has an error, testing it won't
> > help you
> > > > anyway.
> > > >
> > > > - Xiahou Dun
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- Andrew <abizet@woh.rr.com> wrote:
> > > > > I have messed them up, but just because I was
> > not
> > > > > fully aware of how to operate it. Now that I
> > do know
> > > > > how. I just throw away the disk that has
> > errors on
> > > > > them. which some do.
> > > > >   ----- Original Message -----
> > > > >   From: RBlackley@aol.com
> > > > >   To: FEISTFANS-L
> > > > >   Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 4:55 PM
> > > > >   Subject: Re: internet gotta love it, Audio
> > Books -
> > > > > Question For Ray
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >   Yeah I have never had a messed up disk, and
> > that
> > > > > is w/ a standard burner.
> > > > >
> > > > >   In a message dated 3/6/2002 10:13:53 AM
> > Eastern
> > > > > Standard Time, killkenny@thos.co.za writes:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >     Subj:Re: internet gotta love it, Audio
> > Books -
> > > > > Question For Ray
> > > > >     Date:3/6/2002 10:13:53 AM Eastern Standard
> > Time
> > > > >     From:killkenny@thos.co.za
> > > > >     Reply-to:FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > > > >     To:FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > > > >     Sent from the Internet
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >     Or you could just get a Plextor Writer. I
> > have
> > > > > written about 150 disks and,
> > > > >     not messed up one!
> > > > >
> > > > >     At 11:07 PM 3/5/02 -0500, you wrote:
> > > > >     >I just recently actually learned the best
> > way
> > > > > to run my CD burner, but after
> > > > >     >many ruined disks. Now that the only
> > reason I
> > > > > throw away a disk is if there
> > > > >     >is an error on it. This last batch of
> > > > > recordable cds I have had to throw
> > > > >     >away two. Not bad for out of 50 disks. I
> > have a
> > > > > blast finding new Mp3 sites.
> > > > >     >Just to see if there are any songs I
> > couldn't
> > > > > find before. So when you get
> > > > >     >one learn how to use it from trial and
> > error.
> > > > > You will love the number of
> > > > >     >music cds you will make. Up to date 40
> > cds
> > > > > here.  You just gotta love the
> > > > >     >internet
> > > > >     >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >   >From Richard
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > __________________________________________________
> > > > Do You Yahoo!?
> > > > Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free
> > email!
> > > > http://mail.yahoo.com/
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
>http://mail.yahoo.com/



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From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: internet gotta love it,  Audio Books - Question For Ray
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 23:01:26 +0800
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*** EOOH ***
From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: internet gotta love it,  Audio Books - Question For Ray
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 23:01:26 +0800
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Also burning erros can be caused by the data as much as the physical
errors on the disc. Data/Flow rate errors are far more common and doing
a test can help find these. You can then try to burn at a lower speed
and you haven't lost a disc

Dave

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu 
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Kenneth Jones
> Sent: Monday, 11 March 2002 10:30 PM
> To: FEISTFANS-L
> Subject: Re: internet gotta love it, Audio Books - Question For Ray
> 
> 
> I think you are missing the point that if an error occurs during the 
> writing process, your CD is screwed!!
> 
> However it you are testing, then nothing is being written to 
> the CD, so you 
> can still use the CD for future use.
> 
> Just thought I should throw in my 2 cents.
> 
> Regards,
> Kenneth Jones
> 
> At 06:19 AM 3/11/02 -0800, you wrote:
> >How does that save you anything?  If the CD has errors
> >there is nothing you can do about it; it is garbage.
> >What is the point of testing the CD?  What could it
> >possibly yield that just going through with the burn
> >wouldn't do?
> >When I do a burn and the CD really does have an error
> >on it, it does the same thing, spits the CD out and
> >stops.  Doing a test-burn takes the same amount of
> >time as doing a regular burn, so it's just time wasted
> >in my book.  If the CD has an error on it, you can't
> >write to it and testing it won't fix that.
> >
> >- Xiahou Dun
> >
> >--- Andrew <abizet@woh.rr.com> wrote:
> > > I have ce extreme. it test the cds before it burs
> > > them as part of its
> > > program. If there is an error it will beep and spit
> > > the cd out and not
> > > record on it
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Rich" <richse@eden.rutgers.edu>
> > > To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> > > Sent: Friday, March 08, 2002 8:40 PM
> > > Subject: Re: internet gotta love it, Audio Books -
> > > Question For Ray
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > I disagree with you, the testing option on all the
> > > burning programs I have
> > > > used including Easy CD, Nero, Fireburner, CDRWin,
> > > Disc Juggler, and Clone
> > > CD
> > > > have all done simulated burns. The simulation
> > > looks for errors without
> > > > messing up a cd.  Quite a few times I have saved
> > > CD's by doing a test
> > > before
> > > > a burn.
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Dun Xiahou" <xiahoudun13@yahoo.com>
> > > > To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> > > > Sent: Friday, March 08, 2002 11:31 AM
> > > > Subject: Re: internet gotta love it, Audio Books -
> > > Question For Ray
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Believe it or not, much of whether a CD gets
> > > messed up
> > > > > during burning has to do with the software.
> > > Some
> > > > > software is more likely to screw up CDs.  Easy
> > > CD
> > > > > Creator used to be an absolutely dreadful
> > > program that
> > > > > destroyed roughly 70% of all CDs in most CD
> > > Burners.
> > > > > It's gotten better though.  Also, "testing" a CD
> > > > > during a burn can actually screw it up.  Never
> > > test
> > > > > the CD, if it has an error, testing it won't
> > > help you
> > > > > anyway.
> > > > >
> > > > > - Xiahou Dun
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --- Andrew <abizet@woh.rr.com> wrote:
> > > > > > I have messed them up, but just because I was
> > > not
> > > > > > fully aware of how to operate it. Now that I
> > > do know
> > > > > > how. I just throw away the disk that has
> > > errors on
> > > > > > them. which some do.
> > > > > >   ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > >   From: RBlackley@aol.com
> > > > > >   To: FEISTFANS-L
> > > > > >   Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 4:55 PM
> > > > > >   Subject: Re: internet gotta love it, Audio
> > > Books -
> > > > > > Question For Ray
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >   Yeah I have never had a messed up disk, and
> > > that
> > > > > > is w/ a standard burner.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >   In a message dated 3/6/2002 10:13:53 AM
> > > Eastern
> > > > > > Standard Time, killkenny@thos.co.za writes:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >     Subj:Re: internet gotta love it, Audio
> > > Books -
> > > > > > Question For Ray
> > > > > >     Date:3/6/2002 10:13:53 AM Eastern Standard
> > > Time
> > > > > >     From:killkenny@thos.co.za
> > > > > >     Reply-to:FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > > > > >     To:FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > > > > >     Sent from the Internet
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >     Or you could just get a Plextor Writer. I
> > > have
> > > > > > written about 150 disks and,
> > > > > >     not messed up one!
> > > > > >
> > > > > >     At 11:07 PM 3/5/02 -0500, you wrote:
> > > > > >     >I just recently actually learned the best
> > > way
> > > > > > to run my CD burner, but after
> > > > > >     >many ruined disks. Now that the only
> > > reason I
> > > > > > throw away a disk is if there
> > > > > >     >is an error on it. This last batch of
> > > > > > recordable cds I have had to throw
> > > > > >     >away two. Not bad for out of 50 disks. I
> > > have a
> > > > > > blast finding new Mp3 sites.
> > > > > >     >Just to see if there are any songs I
> > > couldn't
> > > > > > find before. So when you get
> > > > > >     >one learn how to use it from trial and
> > > error.
> > > > > > You will love the number of
> > > > > >     >music cds you will make. Up to date 40
> > > cds
> > > > > > here.  You just gotta love the
> > > > > >     >internet
> > > > > >     >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >   >From Richard
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > __________________________________________________
> > > > > Do You Yahoo!?
> > > > > Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free
> > > email!
> > > > > http://mail.yahoo.com/
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >__________________________________________________
> >Do You Yahoo!?
> >Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
> >http://mail.yahoo.com/
> 



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Subject: Re: Say it ain't so, Ray
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 16:21:24 +0100
Subject: Re: Say it ain't so, Ray
From: "Sylvain Guehl" <fenyxkell@demo.xandmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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> Aww, but that joke is so funny! (Besides sooner or later it is
> gonna be my turn. LOL)

Well it's been 3 years and I'm still waiting :op

Syl
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From: John <john@crydee.com>
Subject: Re: internet gotta love it,  Audio Books - Question For Ray
References: <001301c1c71e$22656060$88cda618@woh.rr.com>
 <20020311141952.29305.qmail@web10405.mail.yahoo.com>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 17:30:22 +0000
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: John <john@crydee.com>
Subject: Re: internet gotta love it,  Audio Books - Question For Ray
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Dun Xiahou <xiahoudun13@yahoo.com> writes
>How does that save you anything?  If the CD has errors
>there is nothing you can do about it; it is garbage.
>What is the point of testing the CD?  What could it
>possibly yield that just going through with the burn
>wouldn't do?
>When I do a burn and the CD really does have an error
>on it, it does the same thing, spits the CD out and
>stops.  Doing a test-burn takes the same amount of
>time as doing a regular burn, so it's just time wasted
>in my book.  If the CD has an error on it, you can't
>write to it and testing it won't fix that.
>
>- Xiahou Dun

Basically this is a hangover from the first days of CD-R when disks were 
costing  $25+ a piece. If it was dud you could take it back. With 
current prices its not worth it
-- 
John

john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.

Raymond E Feist Ring
http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm



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To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
References: <001301c1c71e$22656060$88cda618@woh.rr.com> <20020311141952.29305.qmail@web10405.mail.yahoo.com> <pRRxuLPumOj8Ew0L@cableinet.co.uk>
Subject: [OT] CD Burning (was Re: internet gotta love it,  Audio Books - Question For Ray)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 17:27:45 -0600
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: [OT] CD Burning (was Re: internet gotta love it,  Audio Books - Question For Ray)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 17:27:45 -0600
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Hey folks can you take this one offlist now or at least be nice and
put it as OT?  It hasn't been about audiobooks in quite some time.

-James

----- Original Message -----
> >How does that save you anything?  If the CD has errors
> >there is nothing you can do about it; it is garbage.
> >What is the point of testing the CD?  What could it
> >possibly yield that just going through with the burn
> >wouldn't do?
> >When I do a burn and the CD really does have an error
> >on it, it does the same thing, spits the CD out and
> >stops.  Doing a test-burn takes the same amount of
> >time as doing a regular burn, so it's just time wasted
> >in my book.  If the CD has an error on it, you can't
> >write to it and testing it won't fix that.

> Basically this is a hangover from the first days of CD-R when
> disks were costing  $25+ a piece. If it was dud you could take
> it back. With current prices its not worth it



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Subject: Re: Say it ain't so, Ray
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 17:29:09 -0600
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Say it ain't so, Ray
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 17:29:09 -0600
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This is year 4 for me.  So I got dibs... >:D

-James

----- Original Message ----- 
> > Aww, but that joke is so funny! (Besides sooner or later it is
> > gonna be my turn. LOL)
> 
> Well it's been 3 years and I'm still waiting :op
> 
> Syl



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From: Kenneth Jones <killkenny@thos.co.za>
Subject: Talon of the Silver Hawk
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 08:34:32 +0200
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Kenneth Jones <killkenny@thos.co.za>
Subject: Talon of the Silver Hawk
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

For any1 who cares, the cover for "Talon of the Silver Hawk" has been 
posted on amazon.co.uk:

http://images-eu.amazon.com/images/P/0002246813.02.LZZZZZZZ.jpg



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Subject: Re: Talon of the Silver Hawk
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From: Valheru22@aol.com
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 16:41:10 EST
Subject: Re: Talon of the Silver Hawk
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When Does Talon of the Silver Hawk come out...or am I embaressing myself 
because it already has and I just don't know it?
-Chance



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Subject: Re: Talon of the Silver Hawk
References: <GSTENO$IDfFvZKojrWJdFg5l6lIUfhBkEGsnAqwPIkmvIisf@demo.xandmail.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20020312083328.00a64e30@elvandar.thos.co.za>
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Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 16:41:16 -0700
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Talon of the Silver Hawk
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Kenneth Jones wrote:
> 
> For any1 who cares, the cover for "Talon of the Silver Hawk" has been
> posted on amazon.co.uk:

*scratches his head*

We need more covers similar to that of Honoured Enemy, stuff a bit more
complex than, well, simple :)

Craig J. Ries



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 16:02:00 -0800
Subject: Re: Talon of the Silver Hawk
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Tuesday, March 12, 2002, at 03:41 PM, Craig J. Ries wrote:

> Kenneth Jones wrote:
>>
>> For any1 who cares, the cover for "Talon of the Silver Hawk" has been
>> posted on amazon.co.uk:
>
> *scratches his head*
>
> We need more covers similar to that of Honoured Enemy, stuff a bit more
> complex than, well, simple :)
>
> Craig J. Ries
>
>
>
>

Why do you "need" any sort of cover treatment?

The decision was based on the desire by the publisher to acknowledge a 
new phase in the cycle of stories.  Geoff Taylor has done just about all 
my covers over there for 20 years, but I never 2nd guess my publishers 
on art choices.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
From: RBlackley@aol.com
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 19:17:17 EST
Subject: Re: Talon of the Silver Hawk
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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It is not that we need it so much as other people.  I for one know that 
because you wrote it it must be pretty good, therefor I'd buy it.  BUT people 
who have never read one of your books may not pick it up because the cover is 
a bit plain.  I know that everyone says "never judge a book by its cover."  
But people do.
Richard

In a message dated 3/12/2002 7:10:18 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
raymond@bittersea.com writes:


> On Tuesday, March 12, 2002, at 03:41 PM, Craig J. Ries wrote:
> 
> > Kenneth Jones wrote:
> >>
> >> For any1 who cares, the cover for "Talon of the Silver Hawk" has been
> >> posted on amazon.co.uk:
> >
> > *scratches his head*
> >
> > We need more covers similar to that of Honoured Enemy, stuff a bit more
> > complex than, well, simple :)
> >
> > Craig J. Ries
> >
> >
> >
> >
> 
> Why do you "need" any sort of cover treatment?
> 
> The decision was based on the desire by the publisher to acknowledge a 
> new phase in the cycle of stories.  Geoff Taylor has done just about all 
> my covers over there for 20 years, but I never 2nd guess my publishers 
> on art choices.
> 
> Best, R.E.F.


>From Richard

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From: "Earl Borah" <earl@ncn.com>
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> > We need more covers similar to that of Honoured Enemy, stuff a bit
> > more complex than, well, simple :)
> >
> > Craig J. Ries


> Why do you "need" any sort of cover treatment?


Well, there's the obvious statement that we "need" to be able to tell 
the book apart from others on our shelves (except for John, who 
doesn't have room for anything that's not a Feist book, anyway).

But I know that's not what you meant.  :)

Anyway...does anybody know if this is the UK edition specifically? 
Has cover art been made public for the US edition yet?
  - Earl Borah
-----
  If a man speaks in a forest and a woman isn't there to hear it,
  is he still wrong?              (author unknown)



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Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 17:39:42 -0700
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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Raymond Feist wrote:
> 
> Why do you "need" any sort of cover treatment?

Cover art is nice. :)

I guess I'm just a bit disappointed that most of the art on your newer
books has been simple, or in the case of the Krondor books, next to
none.

The Serpentwar books, with their cover art inside the book cover were
pretty good... well, those that had 'em.

Craig J. Ries



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From: Valheru22@aol.com
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 20:45:49 EST
Subject: Re: Talon of the Silver Hawk
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Did nobody read my letter!? Or was I makeing that much of an ass of myself!?
-Chance



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From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
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Nope no one read your letter.  Seriously Chance, chill out, most of
us aren't one here 24-7.  Even those of us who are on the e-mail a
lot need more than 4 hours to get back to most people via this
format.  Many of our members are (or probably should be) asleep in
other parts of the world.  Some are at work, some are at school,
many aren't near a computer for some reason or anther.  Even so,
those who know the answer are most likely the people in the UK, and
they are (or should be) abed by the time you even sent the first
message.  The long and the short of this little rant, is that give
it a day or so before complaining about people ignoring you.  Even
then it is better to repost (and assume your message didn't get
through) rather than throw a snit fit about it.

And to answer your original question:  I haven't the foggiest clue
if it is out yet on that side of the pond (I don't think it is),
because we aren't getting it on this one for a while yet.

-James

----- Original Message -----
From: <Valheru22@aol.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2002 7:45 PM
Subject: Re: Talon of the Silver Hawk


> Did nobody read my letter!? Or was I makeing that much of an ass of myself!?
> -Chance
>



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From: Andrea J Chee <andrea@bloodaxe.com>
Subject: Re: Talon of the Silver Hawk
References: <71.1beefce6.29c0094d@aol.com>
 <002e01c1ca33$5fa55c60$b392aec7@oemcomputer>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 02:39:47 +0000
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Andrea J Chee <andrea@bloodaxe.com>
Subject: Re: Talon of the Silver Hawk
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

In article <002e01c1ca33$5fa55c60$b392aec7@oemcomputer>, James Young
<jajy@earthlink.net> writes

> Even so,
>those who know the answer are most likely the people in the UK, and
>they are (or should be) abed by the time you even sent the first
>message.  

With the usual exception - me. I've preferred working at night ever
since I was a pre-teen sitting cross-legged on the bed hammering on an
old manual typewriter. The tools have improved over the years, but the
habit hasn't changed.

Amazon.co.uk lists 'Talon' as due out in August. They aren't always
correct though.

- ANDREA

-- 
^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^
                  ANDROMEDA - Internet Goddess
<andrea@bloodaxe.com>                    http://www.bloodaxe.com/
Bloodaxe's History Links:   http://www.geocities.com/Athens/5055/
The Loony Bin Archive:               http://www.theloonies.co.uk/



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Subject: Re: Talon of the Silver Hawk
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Andrew Scott" <a.sc0tt@attbi.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Talon of the Silver Hawk
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 18:42:36 -0800
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----- Original Message -----
From: <Valheru22@aol.com>
> Did nobody read my letter!? Or was I makeing that much of an ass of myself!?
> -Chance
>
Ray has to finish writing it before he can publish it.



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Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 21:43:14 -0600
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From: Bret Robideaux <bretr@alliances.org>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 21:43:14 -0600
From: Bret Robideaux <bretr@alliances.org>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:0.9.4) Gecko/20011019 Netscape6/6.2
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Talon of the Silver Hawk
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Covers aren't meant for you and me. We go hunting for his books, 
salivating over the day on the calendar when the next one is released. 
His covers could be refrigerator art, or brown paper bags and we'd buy 
them.

Covers are for all the people who "do" judge a book by it's cover. 
Publishers spend alot of time and money (alot more than you or I have) 
figuring out how to attract the absolute most possible people to a book, 
including what kind of cover art to produce.

While Ray's job is to tell an interesting story, the publisher's job is 
to sell as many copies of that story as possible. Since his publishers 
manage to keep him writing full time (instead of selling cars and such) 
we can infer they're probably pretty good at it.

Did you ever find it odd that the American and British versions of the 
same book have different cover art? That's because publishers have 
figured out who's attracted to what type of cover.

hmmmm, </soap box>

sorry about that,

Bret


RBlackley@aol.com wrote:

> It is not that we need it so much as other people.  I for one know that 
> because you wrote it it must be pretty good, therefor I'd buy it.  BUT 
> people who have never read one of your books may not pick it up because 
> the cover is a bit plain.  I know that everyone says "never judge a book 
> by its cover."  But people do.
> Richard
> 
[snip]
> 
>     Why do you "need" any sort of cover treatment?
> 
>     The decision was based on the desire by the publisher to acknowledge a
>     new phase in the cycle of stories.  Geoff Taylor has done just about
>     all
>     my covers over there for 20 years, but I never 2nd guess my publishers
>     on art choices.
> 
>     Best, R.E.F.
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  >From Richard



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To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Talon of the Silver Hawk
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 11:46:00 +0800
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*** EOOH ***
From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Talon of the Silver Hawk
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 11:46:00 +0800
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The new cover design seems more similar to what you see on the front
cover of the "best-seller" authors like Tom Clancy and such with lots of
big lettering and minimal art work. Possibly this is what the publshers
are going for trying to lure people into a new series with less tie-ins
to previous books. Make it look like a Tom Clancy or Michael Crichton
and maybe it will sell like one to the non-Feist readership.

I must say though it is going to seem reasonably odd to have a book on
my shelf next to Shards that looks so plain in comparison. It's all good
though if the story is of the same caliber as past efforts.

2-centsly,

Dave

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu 
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Bret Robideaux
> Sent: Wednesday, 13 March 2002 11:43 AM
> To: FEISTFANS-L
> Subject: Re: Talon of the Silver Hawk
> 
> 
> Covers aren't meant for you and me. We go hunting for his books, 
> salivating over the day on the calendar when the next one is 
> released. 
> His covers could be refrigerator art, or brown paper bags and 
> we'd buy 
> them.
> 
> Covers are for all the people who "do" judge a book by it's cover. 
> Publishers spend alot of time and money (alot more than you 
> or I have) 
> figuring out how to attract the absolute most possible people 
> to a book, 
> including what kind of cover art to produce.
> 
> While Ray's job is to tell an interesting story, the 
> publisher's job is 
> to sell as many copies of that story as possible. Since his 
> publishers 
> manage to keep him writing full time (instead of selling cars 
> and such) 
> we can infer they're probably pretty good at it.
> 
> Did you ever find it odd that the American and British 
> versions of the 
> same book have different cover art? That's because publishers have 
> figured out who's attracted to what type of cover.
> 
> hmmmm, </soap box>
> 
> sorry about that,
> 
> Bret
> 
> 
> RBlackley@aol.com wrote:
> 
> > It is not that we need it so much as other people.  I for 
> one know that 
> > because you wrote it it must be pretty good, therefor I'd 
> buy it.  BUT 
> > people who have never read one of your books may not pick 
> it up because 
> > the cover is a bit plain.  I know that everyone says "never 
> judge a book 
> > by its cover."  But people do.
> > Richard
> > 
> [snip]
> > 
> >     Why do you "need" any sort of cover treatment?
> > 
> >     The decision was based on the desire by the publisher 
> to acknowledge a
> >     new phase in the cycle of stories.  Geoff Taylor has 
> done just about
> >     all
> >     my covers over there for 20 years, but I never 2nd 
> guess my publishers
> >     on art choices.
> > 
> >     Best, R.E.F.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >  >From Richard
> 



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Subject: Re: Talon of the Silver Hawk
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Julie Wootten" <wootten@xtra.co.nz>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Talon of the Silver Hawk
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 16:23:14 +1300
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It does seem a bit odd to me, given that all the other Legends
books ... well, all two of them (HE and Murder in LaMut)...
have the same cover style.

Course, if Talon isn't a Legends book, I'll just beat a hasty
retreat.  But it does seem odd to change cover styles in the
middle of a series.

Julie.





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Subject: Re: Talon of the Silver Hawk
References: <8A8F1277-3615-11D6-ABEB-003065A8A644@bittersea.com> <012c01c1ca3e$69afda40$a82d37d2@shaelynn>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 21:27:09 -0700
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Talon of the Silver Hawk
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Julie Wootten wrote:
> 
> It does seem a bit odd to me, given that all the other Legends
> books ... well, all two of them (HE and Murder in LaMut)...
> have the same cover style.
> 
> Course, if Talon isn't a Legends book, I'll just beat a hasty
> retreat.  But it does seem odd to change cover styles in the
> middle of a series.

Talon is the next book to move the timeline along. So no, it is not part
of the Legends, it's part of the Conclave of Shadows, iirc a two book
set.

Craig J. Ries



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Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 23:35:27 EST
Subject: Re: Talon of the Silver Hawk
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*** EOOH ***
From: JEEPMONSTER69@aol.com
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 23:35:27 EST
Subject: Re: Talon of the Silver Hawk
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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In a message dated 3/12/2002 11:34:02 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
cries@yifan.net writes:


> Talon is the next book to move the timeline along. So no, it is not part
> of the Legends, it's part of the Conclave of Shadows, iirc a two book
> set.
> 
> Craig J. Ries
> 
> 

So is Conclave post- Serpent War? That is Pug's little faction, so I guess it 
would be.


                                           Peace,

                                                          Matt
"Lets Roll."- Todd Beamer
USA, Muthafacko!

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From: Larry Scroggins <falling_98@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Talon of the Silver Hawk
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 21:06:20 -0800 (PST)
From: Larry Scroggins <falling_98@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Talon of the Silver Hawk
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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Wow, I must say that I really like the cover! It's bold and the lettering
is striking. I'd pick this up even if I didn't know the author.

=====
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Larry Scroggins

__________________________________________________
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From: "A Irving" <s355156@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Talon of the Silver Hawk
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 16:48:28 +1000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "A Irving" <s355156@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Talon of the Silver Hawk
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 16:48:28 +1000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Yes, it is post-serpentwar.

-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of
>JEEPMONSTER69@aol.com
>Sent: Wednesday, 13 March 2002 2:35 PM
>To: FEISTFANS-L
>Subject: Re: Talon of the Silver Hawk
>
>In a message dated 3/12/2002 11:34:02 PM Eastern Standard Time,
>cries@yifan.net writes: 
>
>
>
>Talon is the next book to move the timeline along. So no, it is not part
>
>of the Legends, it's part of the Conclave of Shadows, iirc a two book 
>set. 
>
>Craig J. Ries 
>
>
>
>
>So is Conclave post- Serpent War? That is Pug's little faction, so I
>guess it would be. 
>
>
>                                          Peace, 
>
>                                                         Matt 
>"Lets Roll."- Todd Beamer 
>USA, Muthafacko! 
>              
>



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From: "Mark Tonkin" <shadowfire@chariot.net.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Lots and lots of books
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 23:17:22 +1030
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Mark Tonkin" <shadowfire@chariot.net.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Lots and lots of books
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 23:17:22 +1030
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Let me get this straight.  Are we really going to be getting three Feist
Novels this year?  Murder in Lamut is due out around May, and Talon of the
Silver Hawk and the 20th Anniversary editon of Magician are both due out
later in the year.  How is this going to work?  Are we going to have three
Feist Hardcovers in our bookstores all at the same time?

Now, another question for Ray.  Do you know if there is any chance of you
making it to Adelaide when you come tour downunder this year?  We have a new
big Borders store in the city which would be perfect for a book signing. If
your publishers decide not to send you here then I'll just have to fork out
for a trip to Sydney I suppose :-).

- MARK

========================================
Dilbert's rules of order #2:
"I love deadlines.  I especially like the wooshing
sound they make as they go flying by."



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From: "A Irving" <aignome@dingoblue.net.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
References: <GSTENO$IDfFvZKojrWJdFg5l6lIUfhBkEGsnAqwPIkmvIisf@demo.xandmail.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20020312083328.00a64e30@elvandar.thos.co.za>
Subject: Re: Talon of the Silver Hawk
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 23:17:06 +1000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "A Irving" <aignome@dingoblue.net.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Talon of the Silver Hawk
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 23:17:06 +1000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Interesting cover. I like it, but it reminds me of a novel about one of the
world wars. It doesn't seem to have that typical fantasy feel, but is
powerful. Who did the cover art ray?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kenneth Jones" <killkenny@thos.co.za>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2002 4:34 PM
Subject: Talon of the Silver Hawk


> For any1 who cares, the cover for "Talon of the Silver Hawk" has been
> posted on amazon.co.uk:
>
> http://images-eu.amazon.com/images/P/0002246813.02.LZZZZZZZ.jpg
>



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From: Stacy Tanaka <kimiko1998@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Lots and lots of books
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 08:29:09 -0800 (PST)
From: Stacy Tanaka <kimiko1998@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Lots and lots of books
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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Hi,

The three books are being only released in the UK
right?  As far as I can tell the US still hasn't
gotten 'Honoured Enemy.'  Does anyone know if there
are plan to release it or 'Murder in Lamut' or 'Talon
of the Silver Hawk' in the US?

Stacy

--- Mark Tonkin <shadowfire@chariot.net.au> wrote:
> Let me get this straight.  Are we really going to be
> getting three Feist
> Novels this year?  Murder in Lamut is due out around
> May, and Talon of the
> Silver Hawk and the 20th Anniversary editon of
> Magician are both due out
> later in the year.  How is this going to work?  Are
> we going to have three
> Feist Hardcovers in our bookstores all at the same
> time?
> 
> Now, another question for Ray.  Do you know if there
> is any chance of you
> making it to Adelaide when you come tour downunder
> this year?  We have a new
> big Borders store in the city which would be perfect
> for a book signing. If
> your publishers decide not to send you here then
> I'll just have to fork out
> for a trip to Sydney I suppose :-).
> 
> - MARK
> 
> ========================================
> Dilbert's rules of order #2:
> "I love deadlines.  I especially like the wooshing
> sound they make as they go flying by."
> 


__________________________________________________
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Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 08:35:24 -0800
Subject: Re: Lots and lots of books
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Wednesday, March 13, 2002, at 04:47 AM, Mark Tonkin wrote:

> Let me get this straight.  Are we really going to be getting three Feist
> Novels this year?  Murder in Lamut is due out around May, and Talon of 
> the
> Silver Hawk and the 20th Anniversary editon of Magician are both due out
> later in the year.  How is this going to work?  Are we going to have 
> three
> Feist Hardcovers in our bookstores all at the same time?
>
> Now, another question for Ray.  Do you know if there is any chance of 
> you
> making it to Adelaide when you come tour downunder this year?  We have 
> a new
> big Borders store in the city which would be perfect for a book 
> signing. If
> your publishers decide not to send you here then I'll just have to fork 
> out
> for a trip to Sydney I suppose :-).
>

As I have said, many times before, I have no control over where my 
publishers send me and don't know until I get the schedule which is 
usually only a few weeks prior.   I'll post the info when I get it.

I did Adelaide in '87, didn't go there in 98.  I have no idea.

Best, R.E.F.

----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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> It does seem a bit odd to me, given that all the other Legends
> books ... well, all two of them (HE and Murder in LaMut)...
> have the same cover style.
> 
> Course, if Talon isn't a Legends book, I'll just beat a hasty
> retreat.  But it does seem odd to change cover styles in the
> middle of a series.


Start your retreat.

The Legends books take place during the first Riftwar (Magician 
through Darkness at Sethanon). Occurring chronologically after the 
Riftwar, was Prince of the Blood and the King's Buccaneer (with the 
Krondor books tucked in there as well), followed by the Serpentwar 
Saga (Shadow, Rise, Rage, Shards).

Talon is the beginning of a new series, which takes place AFTER the 
Serpentwar Saga. It takes place at least a couple generations removed 
from the era of the first Riftwar, and significantly after the 
Serpentwar (I think I've heard anything from 40 years to 100+ years 
floated around, and I'm not sure what Ray's current thinking is on 
it).

So it's definitely NOT the same series.
-----
  "I dislike being wrong, and having to admit it publicly later. It's
  embarrassing, humiliating, and unnecessary. It would have been just
  as easy, and much more pleasant, to have been right in the first 
place."
    - Jack Richard, former Editor of Boardwatch Magazine



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*** EOOH ***
From: Russell.S.Teeter@kp.org
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Lots and lots of books
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 08:54:37 -0800
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Ray,

Correct me if I am wrong, but for the past few years, the only place I 
have seen consistently has been the Mystery Galaxy Book Store(I hope I got 
it right since it has been a while) in San Diego.  That was the first time 
I met you being one of the last to show up at the signing..

Russell S. Teeter



>As I have said, many times before, I have no control over where my 
>publishers send me and don't know until I get the schedule which is 
>usually only a few weeks prior.   I'll post the info when I get it.
>
>I did Adelaide in '87, didn't go there in 98.  I have no idea.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
>stupidity.

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Julie Wootten <wootten@xtra.co.nz> writes
>It does seem a bit odd to me, given that all the other Legends
>books ... well, all two of them (HE and Murder in LaMut)...
>have the same cover style.
I spoke to Geoff on this some time back and it is a case of creating a 
theme, for a series. And other things I am not permitted to go into
>

-- 
John

john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.

Raymond E Feist Ring
http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm



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On Wed, 13 March 2002, John wrote

> I spoke to Geoff on this some time back and it is a case of creating a 
> theme, for a series. And other things I am not permitted to go into
> >
> 
> -- 
> John


Oh yeah?? Won't talk, eh?? Somebody hold him, I got a
feather, and I know how to use it!!

 heeheehee

 Anita


 'Every happy ending needs to have a start.'

___________________________________________________________________
Join the Space Program: Get FREE E-mail at http://www.space.com.



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Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 17:08:32 -0800
Subject: Re: Lots and lots of books
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From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 17:08:32 -0800
Subject: Re: Lots and lots of books
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On Wednesday, March 13, 2002, at 08:54 AM, Russell.S.Teeter@kp.org wrote:

>
> Ray,
>
> Correct me if I am wrong, but for the past few years, the only place I 
> have seen consistently has been the Mystery Galaxy Book Store(I hope I 
> got it right since it has been a while) in San Diego.  That was the 
> first time I met you being one of the last to show up at the signing..
>
>

Pretty consistently, given I'm only a ten minute drive up the freeway 
from the store.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.

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Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 17:11:38 -0800
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From: Max Haghighi <maxhag@pacbell.net>
Subject: RE: Lots and lots of books
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 17:11:38 -0800
From: Max Haghighi <maxhag@pacbell.net>
Subject: RE: Lots and lots of books
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Ray:
 
You still do signings there even though there hasn't been a U.S. book
release?
 
Max
 
-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Raymond Feist
>Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2002 5:09 PM
>To: FEISTFANS-L
>Subject: Re: Lots and lots of books
> 
>On Wednesday, March 13, 2002, at 08:54 AM, Russell.S.Teeter@kp.org
>wrote:
>
>Ray,
>
>Correct me if I am wrong, but for the past few years, the only place I
>have seen consistently has been the Mystery Galaxy Book Store(I hope I
>got it right since it has been a while) in San Diego.  That was the
>first time I met you being one of the last to show up at the signing..
>
>
>
>
>
>Pretty consistently, given I'm only a ten minute drive up the freeway
>from the store.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
>stupidity.

1, edited,,
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 17:27:52 -0800
Subject: Re: Lots and lots of books
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Wednesday, March 13, 2002, at 05:11 PM, Max Haghighi wrote:

> Ray:
>
>  
>
> You still do signings there even though there hasn’t been aU.S.book 
> release?
>
>  
>
Ah, no, Max.  Only where there's a new book out in the states. <g>

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.
>

1,,
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From: John <john@crydee.com>
Subject: Re: Lots and lots of books
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 01:45:20 +0000
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: John <john@crydee.com>
Subject: Re: Lots and lots of books
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Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com> writes
> 
>
>You still do signings there even though there hasn’t been aU.S.book 
>release?
>
>Ah, no, Max.  Only where there's a new book out in the states. <g>
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>----
Max must have at least a hundred books he would like you to sign Ray :)

And Max, don't forget to take my hundred too <G>
-- 
John

john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.

Raymond E Feist Ring
http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm



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From: "Cameron Duncan" <cduncan@atinera.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Lots and lots of books
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 12:07:25 +1000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Cameron Duncan" <cduncan@atinera.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Lots and lots of books
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 12:07:25 +1000
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John - 100 signed books wouldn't make much of a difference in your
collection would it?

I have about 150 books to be signed too......
plus a few posters, bookmarks and some artwork <g>
But then Ray's only been to Australia once since I began collecting, and
that was way back when I just started (Shards tour IIRC)


Cameron
Brisbane Australia

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of John
> Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2002 11:45
> To: FEISTFANS-L
> Subject: Re: Lots and lots of books
>
>
> Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com> writes
> > 
> >
> >You still do signings there even though there hasn’t been aU.S.book
> >release?
> >
> >Ah, no, Max.  Only where there's a new book out in the states. <g>
> >
> >Best, R.E.F.
> >----
> Max must have at least a hundred books he would like you to sign Ray :)
>
> And Max, don't forget to take my hundred too <G>
> --
> John
>
> john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
> http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.
>
> Raymond E Feist Ring
> http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm
>
>



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Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 18:17:41 -0800
Subject: Re: Lots and lots of books
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Wednesday, March 13, 2002, at 06:07 PM, Cameron Duncan wrote:

> John - 100 signed books wouldn't make much of a difference in your
> collection would it?
>
> I have about 150 books to be signed too......
> plus a few posters, bookmarks and some artwork <g>
> But then Ray's only been to Australia once since I began collecting, and
> that was way back when I just started (Shards tour IIRC)
>

There was no Shards tour.  I did Darkness Down Under in '87 and Rage 
Down Under in 98.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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From: "Cameron Duncan" <cduncan@atinera.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Lots and lots of books
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 12:28:49 +1000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Cameron Duncan" <cduncan@atinera.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Lots and lots of books
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 12:28:49 +1000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

> On Wednesday, March 13, 2002, at 06:07 PM, Cameron Duncan wrote:
>
> > John - 100 signed books wouldn't make much of a difference in your
> > collection would it?
> >
> > I have about 150 books to be signed too......
> > plus a few posters, bookmarks and some artwork <g>
> > But then Ray's only been to Australia once since I began collecting, and
> > that was way back when I just started (Shards tour IIRC)
> >
>
> There was no Shards tour.  I did Darkness Down Under in '87 and Rage
> Down Under in 98.
>
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
>
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
> stupidity.
>
I may have been wrong, but I was sure it was my Shards book I got signed, as
I (naively) thought I had to buy the copy to be signed at the store where
the
signing was, and ended up with two, having got a copy earlier in the week.
It was at Myer in the center of Brisbane and was my first (and only) book
signing.
Quite an experience as the line was out the store and half way through the
shopping
centre.

I'll have to have a look at the books when I get home.

Cameron
Brisbane Australia



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From: Wogan <wogan@iinet.net.au>
Subject: Re: Lots and lots of books
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 11:17:08 +0800
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Wogan <wogan@iinet.net.au>
Subject: Re: Lots and lots of books
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Hate to disagree with the man, but I'm pretty sure the most recent Aus tour 
was for Shards - I have a signed Hardcover sitting right next to me now. 
Whether it was meant for Rage or not, I don't know, but it was shortly 
after Shards came out.

Ray did a sundowner in Perth, gave a speech and signed some books. It was 
an excellent night.

At 10:17 AM 14/03/2002, you wrote:

>On Wednesday, March 13, 2002, at 06:07 PM, Cameron Duncan wrote:
>
>>John - 100 signed books wouldn't make much of a difference in your
>>collection would it?
>>
>>I have about 150 books to be signed too......
>>plus a few posters, bookmarks and some artwork <g>
>>But then Ray's only been to Australia once since I began collecting, and
>>that was way back when I just started (Shards tour IIRC)
>
>There was no Shards tour.  I did Darkness Down Under in '87 and Rage Down 
>Under in 98.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
>stupidity.
>

----
Wogan (wogan@iinet.net.au)



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Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 14:21:49 +1100
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From: Anestis Kozakis <kenosti@labyrinth.net.au>
Subject: Re: Lots and lots of books
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 14:21:49 +1100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Anestis Kozakis <kenosti@labyrinth.net.au>
Subject: Re: Lots and lots of books
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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At 18:17 -0800 2002/03/13, Raymond Feist wrote:
>On Wednesday, March 13, 2002, at 06:07 PM, Cameron Duncan wrote:
>
>>John - 100 signed books wouldn't make much of a difference in your
>>collection would it?
>>
>>I have about 150 books to be signed too......
>>plus a few posters, bookmarks and some artwork <g>
>>But then Ray's only been to Australia once since I began collecting, and
>>that was way back when I just started (Shards tour IIRC)
>>
>
>There was no Shards tour.  I did Darkness Down Under in '87 and Rage 
>Down Under in 98.

And I have a signed "Rage Down under" T-shirt to prove it :-)

>Best, R.E.F.
>----

Anestis.
-- 
kenosti@labyrinth.net.au
"A complete list of this film's associate producers
  is available upon request."
    -- In End Credits for "State and Main"



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Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 22:24:46 EST
Subject: New Games?
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*** EOOH ***
From: JEEPMONSTER69@aol.com
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 22:24:46 EST
Subject: New Games?
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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Ray,


                Are there any new Krondor games slated to come out or to be 
made? After I beat RTK, I have been hungering for a new game

                                 Peace,


                                                  Ninja Matt

"Lets Roll."- Todd Beamer
USA, Muthafacko!

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From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Lots and lots of books
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 13:51:52 +1000 (GMT+1000)
From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Lots and lots of books
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


150 books?

WOW


> John - 100 signed books wouldn't make much of a difference in your
> collection would it?
>
> I have about 150 books to be signed too......
> plus a few posters, bookmarks and some artwork <g>
> But then Ray's only been to Australia once since I began collecting, and
> that was way back when I just started (Shards tour IIRC)
>
>
> Cameron
> Brisbane Australia
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of John
> > Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2002 11:45
> > To: FEISTFANS-L
> > Subject: Re: Lots and lots of books
> >
> >
> > Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com> writes
> > > 
> > >
> > >You still do signings there even though there hasn’t been aU.S.book
> > >release?
> > >
> > >Ah, no, Max.  Only where there's a new book out in the states. <g>
> > >
> > >Best, R.E.F.
> > >----
> > Max must have at least a hundred books he would like you to sign Ray :)
> >
> > And Max, don't forget to take my hundred too <G>
> > --
> > John
> >
> > john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
> > http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.
> >
> > Raymond E Feist Ring
> > http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm
> >
> >
>
>

Thanks
Darragh
-=-=
www.iamtheporkfireman.com
[Email]: s356179@student.uq.edu.au [ICQ]: 114283262



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From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Lots and lots of books
In-Reply-To: <A9C8A07E-36F1-11D6-A2D8-003065A8A644@bittersea.com>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 13:52:35 +1000 (GMT+1000)
From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Lots and lots of books
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

> > John - 100 signed books wouldn't make much of a difference in your
> > collection would it?
> >
> > I have about 150 books to be signed too......
> > plus a few posters, bookmarks and some artwork <g>
> > But then Ray's only been to Australia once since I began collecting, and
> > that was way back when I just started (Shards tour IIRC)
> >
>
> There was no Shards tour.  I did Darkness Down Under in '87 and Rage
> Down Under in 98.
> Best, R.E.F.

When you came down for Rage Ray, Shards had just been out in the
bookstores the day before (in Brisbane anyway)

Thanks
Darragh
-=-=
www.iamtheporkfireman.com
[Email]: s356179@student.uq.edu.au [ICQ]: 114283262



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To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
References: <73.1c4f642d.29c171fe@aol.com>
Subject: Re: New Games?
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 23:45:24 -0600
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: New Games?
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 23:45:24 -0600
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The answer as it was last told was something akin to "I can't
comment on that right now."

Which roughly translates to: No (as per the demise of Pyrotechnics,
and Dynamix), but there might be a slight possibility something is
us.  But either way I won't say a damn thing until something is
either canned or finalized.

This make sense? Don't sweat over a new game, go beat BaK again. It
doesn't get old.

-James

----- Original Message -----
From: <JEEPMONSTER69@aol.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2002 9:24 PM
Subject: New Games?


> Ray,
>
>
>                 Are there any new Krondor games slated to come out or to be
> made? After I beat RTK, I have been hungering for a new game
>
>                                  Peace,
>
>
>                                                   Ninja Matt
>
> "Lets Roll."- Todd Beamer
> USA, Muthafacko!
>
>



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Subject: Re: Lots and lots of books
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 06:16:06 -0500
Subject: Re: Lots and lots of books
From: Bob Montgomery <dante@kingcon.com>
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Those sound like pro wrestling events <G>

On Wednesday, March 13, 2002, at 09:17 PM, Raymond Feist wrote:

> There was no Shards tour.  I did Darkness Down Under in '87 and Rage 
> Down Under in 98.
>
> Best, R.E.F.



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Subject: MiL
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*** EOOH ***
From: "dbradley_1" <dbradley_1@msn.com>
To: "Feist Fans" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: MiL
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 18:32:45 -0600
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Is the finished cover art for Murder in LaMut posted anywhere?  (If so
where?)  I know you can see the making of it at,
http://www.crydee.com/feist/refindex.htm but I was hoping to see a
larger final image.

Jacko

"There is a country in Europe where multiple-choice tests are illegal." - Sigfried Hulzer

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Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 10:44:53 +1000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Cameron Duncan" <cduncan@atinera.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: MiL
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 10:44:53 +1000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Try the following amazon.co.uk link -

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0002247208/qid=1016152961/sr=2-1/ref=sr_2_1_1/202-3978225-7217432

regards,

Cameron


-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On
>Behalf Of dbradley_1
>Sent: Friday, March 15, 2002 10:33
>To: Feist Fans
>Subject: MiL
>
>
>Is the finished cover art for Murder in LaMut posted anywhere?  (If so
>where?)  I know you can see the making of it at,
>http://www.crydee.com/feist/refindex.htm but I was hoping to see a larger
>final image.
>
>Jacko
>
>“There is a country in Europe where multiple-choice tests are illegal.” -
>Sigfried Hulzer
>


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Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 22:42:45 -0600
X-Moose: once bit my sister
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On Thursday 14 March 2002 06:44 pm, Cameron Duncan wrote:
> Try the following amazon.co.uk link -
>
> http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0002247208/qid=1016152961/sr=2-1/r
>e f=sr_2_1_1/202-3978225-7217432
>
> regards,
>
> Cameron

Yup; it's a heckuva good cover.

-- 
-------------------------------------
There's a widow in sleepy Chester
  Who weeps for her only son;
There's a grave on the Pabeng River,
  A grave that the Burmans shun,
And there's Subadar Prag Tewarri
  Who tells how the work was done.
-------------------------------------



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Subject: Re: MiL
In-Reply-To: <200203142242.2682@ellegon.com>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 09:14:17 +0000
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: MiL
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

At 04:42 AM 3/15/02, Joel Rosenberg wrote:

Any relation to the author...? 

(I apparently was once the head coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers...)

rip
(Richard Williamson)

>On Thursday 14 March 2002 06:44 pm, Cameron Duncan wrote:
>> Try the following amazon.co.uk link -
>>
>> http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0002247208/qid=1016152961/sr=2-1/r
>>e f=sr_2_1_1/202-3978225-7217432
>>
>> regards,
>>
>> Cameron
>
>Yup; it's a heckuva good cover.
>
>-- 
>-------------------------------------
>There's a widow in sleepy Chester
>  Who weeps for her only son;
>There's a grave on the Pabeng River,
>  A grave that the Burmans shun,
>And there's Subadar Prag Tewarri
>  Who tells how the work was done.
>-------------------------------------



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Subject: Re: MiL
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 07:08:11 -0600
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References: <002901c1cbba$9f0d7760$570199a8@atlasmail.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20020315091300.00f07710@mail.swindon.wrsec.fr>
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*** EOOH ***
From: Joel Rosenberg <joelr@metzada.com>
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: MiL
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 07:08:11 -0600
X-Moose: once bit my sister
X-Moose-bites: can be very dangerous, you know.
Organization: Ellegon, Inc.
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

On Friday 15 March 2002 03:14 am, you wrote:
> At 04:42 AM 3/15/02, Joel Rosenberg wrote:
>
> Any relation to the author...?

Well, yeah; I'm, well, me.  :)

-- 
-------------------------------------
There's a widow in sleepy Chester
  Who weeps for her only son;
There's a grave on the Pabeng River,
  A grave that the Burmans shun,
And there's Subadar Prag Tewarri
  Who tells how the work was done.
-------------------------------------



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References: <002901c1cbba$9f0d7760$570199a8@atlasmail.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20020315091300.00f07710@mail.swindon.wrsec.fr> <200203150707.25656@ellegon.com>
Subject: Joel Rosenberg meets Ray
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 14:15:59 +0100
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Bastian" <Calanthe@abenteuerland.org>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Joel Rosenberg meets Ray
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 14:15:59 +0100
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How did you and Ray come together?
I mean......yes...just how...?!:)


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Joel Rosenberg" <joelr@metzada.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Friday, March 15, 2002 2:08 PM
Subject: Re: MiL


> On Friday 15 March 2002 03:14 am, you wrote:
> > At 04:42 AM 3/15/02, Joel Rosenberg wrote:
> >
> > Any relation to the author...?
> 
> Well, yeah; I'm, well, me.  :)
> 
> -- 
> -------------------------------------
> There's a widow in sleepy Chester
>   Who weeps for her only son;
> There's a grave on the Pabeng River,
>   A grave that the Burmans shun,
> And there's Subadar Prag Tewarri
>   Who tells how the work was done.
> -------------------------------------
> 



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From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
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Subject: RE: MiL
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 21:17:04 +0800
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*** EOOH ***
From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: MiL
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 21:17:04 +0800
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Cool, that can only be good news for when the book comes out having both
authors on the list.

Welcome aboard Joel, how long have you been lurking around on here?

Dave

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu 
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Joel Rosenberg
> Sent: Friday, 15 March 2002 9:08 PM
> To: FEISTFANS-L
> Subject: Re: MiL
> 
> 
> On Friday 15 March 2002 03:14 am, you wrote:
> > At 04:42 AM 3/15/02, Joel Rosenberg wrote:
> >
> > Any relation to the author...?
> 
> Well, yeah; I'm, well, me.  :)
> 
> -- 
> -------------------------------------
> There's a widow in sleepy Chester
>   Who weeps for her only son;
> There's a grave on the Pabeng River,
>   A grave that the Burmans shun,
> And there's Subadar Prag Tewarri
>   Who tells how the work was done.
> -------------------------------------
> 



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*** EOOH ***
From: dreamfish@space.com
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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: MiL
X-Sent-From: dreamfish@space.com
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 05:23:00 -0800 (PST)
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Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

On Thu, 14 March 2002, Joel Rosenberg wandered into the
list:

 Hi Joel!

 Loved your books, well the 'Guardian' series anyway.
Good to see you here.
  
Anita


 'Every happy ending needs to have a start.

___________________________________________________________________
Join the Space Program: Get FREE E-mail at http://www.space.com.



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Summary-line: 15-Mar          joelr@metzada.com  [66] #Re: MiL
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Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 07:38:57 -0600
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*** EOOH ***
From: Joel Rosenberg <joelr@metzada.com>
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: MiL
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 07:38:57 -0600
X-Moose: once bit my sister
X-Moose-bites: can be very dangerous, you know.
Organization: Ellegon, Inc.
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

On Friday 15 March 2002 07:17 am, you wrote:
> Cool, that can only be good news for when the book comes out having both
> authors on the list.
>
> Welcome aboard Joel, how long have you been lurking around on here?
>
> Dave

Thanks.  And about ten minutes, before my first post.  
-- 
-------------------------------------
There's a widow in sleepy Chester
  Who weeps for her only son;
There's a grave on the Pabeng River,
  A grave that the Burmans shun,
And there's Subadar Prag Tewarri
  Who tells how the work was done.
-------------------------------------



1,,
Summary-line: 15-Mar  ard.williamson@windriver.  [75] #Re: MiL
X-Coding-System: undecided-unix
Mail-from: From owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu Fri Mar 15 13:55:26 2002
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Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 13:53:37 +0000
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: MiL
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At 01:08 PM 3/15/02, Joel Rosenberg wrote:
>On Friday 15 March 2002 03:14 am, you wrote:
>> At 04:42 AM 3/15/02, Joel Rosenberg wrote:
>>
>> Any relation to the author...?
>
>Well, yeah; I'm, well, me.  :)

Coolosity re-defined...  

Welcome to Ray's other playground.

For the record, Ray, I started the Guardians books before 
I read Magician.

In fact, I can remember standing in a bookstore agonizing
over the choice between "The Warrior Lives" and "Prince of 
the Blood", I think they were (1989?).  

rip


-- 
Words are herd animals. Once you have 
some down on the page, the rest just follow.
  -anonymous, I saw it first on a posting to a 2001 NaNoWriMo list-



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From: "" <dante@kingcon.com>
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Sure you are, Joel. You just keep tellin' yourself that, it'll be all better soon <G>

kidding of course! Welcome aboard, Joel. Good to see you about. We've 
chatted over on Ray's Usenet list before :)

----- Original Message -----
From: Joel Rosenberg
Sent: 03/15/2002 8:08:11 AM
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: MiL

> On Friday 15 March 2002 03:14 am, you wrote:
> > At 04:42 AM 3/15/02, Joel Rosenberg wrote:
> >
> > Any relation to the author...?
> 
> Well, yeah; I'm, well, me.  :)
> 
> -- 
> -------------------------------------
> There's a widow in sleepy Chester
>   Who weeps for her only son;
> There's a grave on the Pabeng River,
>   A grave that the Burmans shun,
> And there's Subadar Prag Tewarri
>   Who tells how the work was done.
> -------------------------------------
> 



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Summary-line: 15-Mar  ard.williamson@windriver.  [54] #Re: MiL
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Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 14:07:06 +0000
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Wow, an old-timer then. 

rip

At 01:38 PM 3/15/02, Joel Rosenberg wrote:
>Thanks.  And about ten minutes, before my first post.  



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Summary-line: 15-Mar          joelr@metzada.com [130] #Re: Joel Rosenberg meets Ray
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Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Joel Rosenberg meets Ray
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 08:27:52 -0600
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On Friday 15 March 2002 07:15 am, you wrote:
> How did you and Ray come together?
> I mean......yes...just how...?!:)
>
>

Generally, we've been friends for something like a decade and a half; 
specifically, on this project, Ray called me up, and invited me in.  

I've never done a novel-length collaboration before -- and only a few short 
fiction ones -- and have steadfastly refused to do one, unless it met the 
following criteria:

1.  Money.  In the US market, because of a glut of 
collaborations-that-aren't-collaborations-and-really-suck, the market 
defaults to seeing collaborations as something else, something not terribly 
interesting, and pays accordingly, unless things are explained real, real 
well.  

HarperUK was willing to, given Ray's history (and, one would hope, his choice 
of collaborators) and idea for the Tales of the Riftwar, both treat them as 
"real Ray Feist Riftwar books", and market -- and pay for them -- 
accordingly.  Demonstrably, that worked for Honoured Enemy, and my hope is 
that it'll work for Murder in LaMut, too.  

2.  Cross-promotion.  If I'm going to spend time doing something new and 
difficult (and this didn't turn out to be near as difficult as I worried it 
might be -- it was a lot of work, but it was also a lot of fun), it also has 
to have a good chance of promoting my own books.  Once Ray and I agreed -- it 
took about thirty seconds; we both thought the idea was cool -- that it would 
be a murder mystery with Pirojil, Kethol, and Durine transplanted to 
Midkemia, it was pretty clear to me that this could easily cross-promote my 
fantasy books, as well.  It's a "real Ray Feist book", I hope, but it's also 
a "Midkemia/Guardians crossover," I hope.  

Ray's doing these three collaborations for a lot of reasons, but one of them 
is to enhance the audiences of his collaborators, as well as, to a lesser 
extent, his own already huge one.  Obviously, I gain more from that as, err, 
his is bigger than mine, but there are some Guardians fans who haven't been 
hooked on Ray's books -- yet -- so we both gain from that, although, 
obviously, I win more on that one.  Win-win. 

3.  Coolness.  There's a lot that I think is cool about the book, from the 
opening line, to the final scene.  A lot of that came in the writing, of 
course, but a couple of particularly cool bits came in the early discussion.  
Since, for reasons folks who have read Not Exactly the Three Musketeers and 
Not Quite Scaramouche will understand, Durine isn't available in my 
continuity, and Kethol isn't doing the professional soldier thing anymore, it 
was fun to have them back together again.  Those three guys are kind of 
special, and while they work -- real well, I think -- in the context, they 
look at things differently than Ray's characters tend to, and that's led to 
some (IMHO) great little bits.   

Did it work?  Well, in about a month and a half, y'all get to make up your 
own minds...

There's also the coolness factor of focus.  As I've said before, if Ray and I 
were to write WWII vintage history, he'd do the War Between the Generals, and 
I'd follow a half a dozen guys in the 442nd RCT, most of whom would get blown 
away.  Nothing wrong with either of those, of course, but my preference for 
focussing on individuals whose fate isn't of global significance seemed to 
both of us to be likely to work well in the context of the Tales of the 
Riftwar, where we know how the big parts of the cycle come out.  The Kingdom 
isn't, from the POV of a reader who has read the first Midkemia books, really 
in play -- we can't rewrite the Riftwar to change the outcome -- but the 
lives of almost everybody in LaMut very much is.  (The only exceptions who 
appear in the book are Vandros and Fantus, who we know don't get killed 
during the time in question.  Everybody else is in play.)   Ray's done the 
politics stuff at the Kingdom and ducal level -- but there's some ... 
interesting dramatic possibilities in politics at the much lower level of 
land barons -- with a few court barons with other agendas -- dealing with 
each other, and we had fun exploring those. 

-- 
-------------------------------------
There's a widow in sleepy Chester
  Who weeps for her only son;
There's a grave on the Pabeng River,
  A grave that the Burmans shun,
And there's Subadar Prag Tewarri
  Who tells how the work was done.
-------------------------------------



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Summary-line: 15-Mar        andrea@bloodaxe.com  [65] #Re: MiL
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 <002901c1cbba$9f0d7760$570199a8@atlasmail.com>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 15:06:18 +0000
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Andrea J Chee <andrea@bloodaxe.com>
Subject: Re: MiL
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In article <5.1.0.14.2.20020315133425.00f0e8b0@mail.swindon.wrsec.fr>,
Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com> writes

>For the record, Ray, I started the Guardians books before 
>I read Magician.

Same here. I remember reading The Sleeping Dragon and wondering why my
gaming never turned out that way. It's always nice to get to be a
character in a book though! ;-)

- ANDREA

-- 
^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^
                  ANDROMEDA - Internet Goddess
<andrea@bloodaxe.com>                    http://www.bloodaxe.com/
Bloodaxe's History Links:   http://www.geocities.com/Athens/5055/
The Loony Bin Archive:               http://www.theloonies.co.uk/



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From: "Western Rhythm" <info@westernrhythm.com>
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References: <002901c1cbba$9f0d7760$570199a8@atlasmail.com> <200203150707.25656@ellegon.com> <000901c1cc23$8c7fec40$6f8f6a86@eldamar> <200203150739.2566@ellegon.com>
Subject: Re: Joel Rosenberg meets Ray
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 23:21:53 +0800
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Western Rhythm" <info@westernrhythm.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Joel Rosenberg meets Ray
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 23:21:53 +0800
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Can't wait to read it :)

A Book is great with one talented author at the helm, with two talented
authors building on each other, these books are going to be just awesome.

Keep em coming, whatever you put out is always going to be  winners :)

thanks guys




----- Original Message -----
From: "Joel Rosenberg" <joelr@metzada.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Friday, March 15, 2002 10:27 PM
Subject: Re: Joel Rosenberg meets Ray


> On Friday 15 March 2002 07:15 am, you wrote:
> > How did you and Ray come together?
> > I mean......yes...just how...?!:)
> >
> >
>
> Generally, we've been friends for something like a decade and a half;
> specifically, on this project, Ray called me up, and invited me in.
>
> I've never done a novel-length collaboration before -- and only a few short
> fiction ones -- and have steadfastly refused to do one, unless it met the
> following criteria:
>
> 1.  Money.  In the US market, because of a glut of
> collaborations-that-aren't-collaborations-and-really-suck, the market
> defaults to seeing collaborations as something else, something not terribly
> interesting, and pays accordingly, unless things are explained real, real
> well.
>
> HarperUK was willing to, given Ray's history (and, one would hope, his choice
> of collaborators) and idea for the Tales of the Riftwar, both treat them as
> "real Ray Feist Riftwar books", and market -- and pay for them --
> accordingly.  Demonstrably, that worked for Honoured Enemy, and my hope is
> that it'll work for Murder in LaMut, too.
>
> 2.  Cross-promotion.  If I'm going to spend time doing something new and
> difficult (and this didn't turn out to be near as difficult as I worried it
> might be -- it was a lot of work, but it was also a lot of fun), it also has
> to have a good chance of promoting my own books.  Once Ray and I agreed -- it
> took about thirty seconds; we both thought the idea was cool -- that it would
> be a murder mystery with Pirojil, Kethol, and Durine transplanted to
> Midkemia, it was pretty clear to me that this could easily cross-promote my
> fantasy books, as well.  It's a "real Ray Feist book", I hope, but it's also
> a "Midkemia/Guardians crossover," I hope.
>
> Ray's doing these three collaborations for a lot of reasons, but one of them
> is to enhance the audiences of his collaborators, as well as, to a lesser
> extent, his own already huge one.  Obviously, I gain more from that as, err,
> his is bigger than mine, but there are some Guardians fans who haven't been
> hooked on Ray's books -- yet -- so we both gain from that, although,
> obviously, I win more on that one.  Win-win.
>
> 3.  Coolness.  There's a lot that I think is cool about the book, from the
> opening line, to the final scene.  A lot of that came in the writing, of
> course, but a couple of particularly cool bits came in the early discussion.
> Since, for reasons folks who have read Not Exactly the Three Musketeers and
> Not Quite Scaramouche will understand, Durine isn't available in my
> continuity, and Kethol isn't doing the professional soldier thing anymore, it
> was fun to have them back together again.  Those three guys are kind of
> special, and while they work -- real well, I think -- in the context, they
> look at things differently than Ray's characters tend to, and that's led to
> some (IMHO) great little bits.
>
> Did it work?  Well, in about a month and a half, y'all get to make up your
> own minds...
>
> There's also the coolness factor of focus.  As I've said before, if Ray and I
> were to write WWII vintage history, he'd do the War Between the Generals, and
> I'd follow a half a dozen guys in the 442nd RCT, most of whom would get blown
> away.  Nothing wrong with either of those, of course, but my preference for
> focussing on individuals whose fate isn't of global significance seemed to
> both of us to be likely to work well in the context of the Tales of the
> Riftwar, where we know how the big parts of the cycle come out.  The Kingdom
> isn't, from the POV of a reader who has read the first Midkemia books, really
> in play -- we can't rewrite the Riftwar to change the outcome -- but the
> lives of almost everybody in LaMut very much is.  (The only exceptions who
> appear in the book are Vandros and Fantus, who we know don't get killed
> during the time in question.  Everybody else is in play.)   Ray's done the
> politics stuff at the Kingdom and ducal level -- but there's some ...
> interesting dramatic possibilities in politics at the much lower level of
> land barons -- with a few court barons with other agendas -- dealing with
> each other, and we had fun exploring those.
>
> --
> -------------------------------------
> There's a widow in sleepy Chester
>   Who weeps for her only son;
> There's a grave on the Pabeng River,
>   A grave that the Burmans shun,
> And there's Subadar Prag Tewarri
>   Who tells how the work was done.
> -------------------------------------



1,,
Summary-line: 15-Mar      xiahoudun13@yahoo.com  [83] #Re: MiL
X-Coding-System: undecided-unix
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From: Dun Xiahou <xiahoudun13@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: MiL
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 07:39:11 -0800 (PST)
From: Dun Xiahou <xiahoudun13@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: MiL
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

So now will we have a "Who get's to be Joel this
week?" thing going?

- Xiahou Dun

---  <dante@kingcon.com> wrote:
> Sure you are, Joel. You just keep tellin' yourself
> that, it'll be all better soon <
> G>
> 
> kidding of course! Welcome aboard, Joel. Good to see
> you about. We've 
> chatted over on Ray's Usenet list before :)
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Joel Rosenberg
> Sent: 03/15/2002 8:08:11 AM
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
> Subject: Re: MiL
> 
> > On Friday 15 March 2002 03:14 am, you wrote:
> > > At 04:42 AM 3/15/02, Joel Rosenberg wrote:
> > >
> > > Any relation to the author...?
> > 
> > Well, yeah; I'm, well, me.  :)
> > 
> > -- 
> > -------------------------------------
> > There's a widow in sleepy Chester
> >   Who weeps for her only son;
> > There's a grave on the Pabeng River,
> >   A grave that the Burmans shun,
> > And there's Subadar Prag Tewarri
> >   Who tells how the work was done.
> > -------------------------------------
> > 
> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/



1,,
Summary-line: 15-Mar          larry@psihawk.com  [62] #Re: MiL
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From: Larry Siegel <larry@psihawk.com>
Subject: Re: MiL
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 11:08:27 -0500
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Larry Siegel <larry@psihawk.com>
Subject: Re: MiL
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

At 07:39 AM 3/15/02 -0800, you wrote:
>So now will we have a "Who get's to be Joel this
>week?" thing going?

Actually, I am curious as to if Joel came here on his own...
Or Ray said "Hey Joel.... you gotta come check out this
mailing ist I'm on....a whole bunch of nutjobs and whackos" :)

And thats only describing the old timers....


Larry

My Homepage
http://www.psihawk.com

Raymond E. Feist FAQ
http://www.psihawk.com/feist



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Summary-line: 15-Mar      raymond@bittersea.com  [66] #Re: Joel Rosenberg meets Ray
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Subject: Re: Joel Rosenberg meets Ray
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 09:08:47 -0800
Subject: Re: Joel Rosenberg meets Ray
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Friday, March 15, 2002, at 05:15 AM, Bastian wrote:

> How did you and Ray come together?
> I mean......yes...just how...?!:)
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Joel Rosenberg" <joelr@metzada.com>
> To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> Sent: Friday, March 15, 2002 2:08 PM
> Subject: Re: MiL
>

I want to say it was at a Boscon, about a hundred years ago or so.  I 
know it was back when Joel was still living on the East Coast, and I had 
just started working with Janny.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Summary-line: 15-Mar          joelr@metzada.com  [79] #Re: MiL
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References: <63b97139eff0417ea11bb35c1e294bd7.dante@kingcon.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20020315110648.00a46440@mail.optonline.net>
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020315110648.00a46440@mail.optonline.net>
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*** EOOH ***
From: Joel Rosenberg <joelr@metzada.com>
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: MiL
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 11:59:35 -0600
X-Moose: once bit my sister
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Organization: Ellegon, Inc.
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

On Friday 15 March 2002 10:08 am, you wrote:
> At 07:39 AM 3/15/02 -0800, you wrote:
> >So now will we have a "Who get's to be Joel this
> >week?" thing going?
>
> Actually, I am curious as to if Joel came here on his own...
> Or Ray said "Hey Joel.... you gotta come check out this
> mailing ist I'm on....a whole bunch of nutjobs and whackos" :)
>
> And thats only describing the old timers....
>

On my own, actually, inspired by a comment on the newsgroup.  I don't know if 
Ray ever mentioned it.  

Kind of cool, and reminds me a lot of my little place on the net -- the 
unofficial but blessed Joel Rosenberg fan site at 
http://www.slovotskys-laws.com (although there's now several other domains 
that'll get you there) -- although the action there is in the forums, rather 
than the mailing list.  


-- 
-------------------------------------
There's a widow in sleepy Chester
  Who weeps for her only son;
There's a grave on the Pabeng River,
  A grave that the Burmans shun,
And there's Subadar Prag Tewarri
  Who tells how the work was done.
-------------------------------------



1,,
Summary-line: 15-Mar           LDS627@attbi.com  [82] #Re: MiL
X-Coding-System: undecided-unix
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Subject: Re: MiL
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 18:43:19 +0000
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*** EOOH ***
From: LDS627@attbi.com
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: MiL
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 18:43:19 +0000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

OK< this is cool. Two of my favorite fantasy authors on 
the same list, and a way to write both of em.

This is a GOOD week.

Larry 
Who usually uses the appropriate list and venue to 
contact said authors <G>.
> On Friday 15 March 2002 10:08 am, you wrote:
> > At 07:39 AM 3/15/02 -0800, you wrote:
> > >So now will we have a "Who get's to be Joel this
> > >week?" thing going?
> >
> > Actually, I am curious as to if Joel came here on his own...
> > Or Ray said "Hey Joel.... you gotta come check out this
> > mailing ist I'm on....a whole bunch of nutjobs and whackos" :)
> >
> > And thats only describing the old timers....
> >
> 
> On my own, actually, inspired by a comment on the newsgroup.  I don't know if 
> Ray ever mentioned it.  
> 
> Kind of cool, and reminds me a lot of my little place on the net -- the 
> unofficial but blessed Joel Rosenberg fan site at 
> http://www.slovotskys-laws.com (although there's now several other domains 
> that'll get you there) -- although the action there is in the forums, rather 
> than the mailing list.  
> 
> 
> -- 
> -------------------------------------
> There's a widow in sleepy Chester
>   Who weeps for her only son;
> There's a grave on the Pabeng River,
>   A grave that the Burmans shun,
> And there's Subadar Prag Tewarri
>   Who tells how the work was done.
> -------------------------------------
> 



1, edited,,
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Message-ID: <104.1273c714.29c3bf02@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 16:17:54 EST
Subject: Re: MiL
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*** EOOH ***
From: RBlackley@aol.com
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 16:17:54 EST
Subject: Re: MiL
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

yeah now thats a cool cover

In a message dated 3/15/2002 12:05:59 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
joelr@metzada.com writes:


> On Thursday 14 March 2002 06:44 pm, Cameron Duncan wrote:
> > Try the following amazon.co.uk link -
> >
> > 
> http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0002247208/qid=1016152961/sr=2-1/r
> >e f=sr_2_1_1/202-3978225-7217432
> >
> > regards,
> >
> > Cameron
> 
> Yup; it's a heckuva good cover.
> 
> -- 
> -------------------------------------
> There's a widow in sleepy Chester
>   Who weeps for her only son;
> There's a grave on the Pabeng River,
>   A grave that the Burmans shun,
> And there's Subadar Prag Tewarri
>   Who tells how the work was done.
> -------------------------------------
> 


>From Richard

1,,
Summary-line: 15-Mar  markchaloner@btinternet.c  [57] #I'm astounded
X-Coding-System: undecided-unix
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Subject: I'm astounded
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*** EOOH ***
From: "MChaloner" <markchaloner@btinternet.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: I'm astounded
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 23:09:00 -0000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I know there's a lot of misinformation posted around on the internet, but
has anyone else heard about this:
http://www.systemgods.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=000058
If you have any insight, please e-mail me OFF-LIST. I'm absoutley astounded
by the article - (and I don't want to go into what it's about as this is the
feistfans-l list) - but if anyone knows anything more, could they please
e-mail me OFF-LIST.

Mark ;-)



1,,
Summary-line: 15-Mar       kimiko1998@yahoo.com  [53] #Confused about Murder in LaMut
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From: Stacy Tanaka <kimiko1998@yahoo.com>
Subject: Confused about Murder in LaMut
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 21:54:37 -0800 (PST)
From: Stacy Tanaka <kimiko1998@yahoo.com>
Subject: Confused about Murder in LaMut
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Hi,

I'm a little confused about Murder in LaMut.  From the
post made previously by Joel Rosenberg it seems to
indicate that Murder in LaMut is a cross-over with
another series.  Is this correct (i.e. will Murder not
make sense without first reading the Gaurdian books)?

Stacy


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
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1,,
Summary-line: 16-Mar          joelr@metzada.com  [87] #Re: Confused about Murder in LaMut
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From: Joel Rosenberg <joelr@metzada.com>
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Subject: Re: Confused about Murder in LaMut
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 00:35:59 -0600
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*** EOOH ***
From: Joel Rosenberg <joelr@metzada.com>
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Confused about Murder in LaMut
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 00:35:59 -0600
X-Moose: once bit my sister
X-Moose-bites: can be very dangerous, you know.
Organization: Ellegon, Inc.
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

On Friday 15 March 2002 11:54 pm, you wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I'm a little confused about Murder in LaMut.  From the
> post made previously by Joel Rosenberg it seems to
> indicate that Murder in LaMut is a cross-over with
> another series.  Is this correct (i.e. will Murder not
> make sense without first reading the Gaurdian books)?
>
> Stacy

Nope.   Murder in LaMut will make perfect sense without having read the 
Guardians books.  (I  think that it will even work for those few benighted 
soles who haven't read any of Ray's books before, as we went to some trouble 
to put in enough backfill or dispense any spoilers.)

I guess I didn't explain it well.  

It's only a "crossover" in the sense that the three central characters in 
Murder in LaMut-- Pirojil, Kethol, and Durine -- just happen to have the same 
names, are in the same profession, and look and act the same (although have 
slightly different personal histories, as the Pirojil, Kethol and Durine of 
Murder in LaMut are native to Midkemia), as formerly minor characters in the 
Guardians books may add a certain something for Guardians fans, and may -- I 
hope -- be yet another reason for Feistfans who enjoy Murder in LaMut to pick 
up, say, Not Exactly the Three Musketeers.   

(There's a couple of small in-jokes for Guardians fans, but they won't stick 
out for folks unfamiliar with my stuff.  Honest.)  

-- 
-------------------------------------
There's a widow in sleepy Chester
  Who weeps for her only son;
There's a grave on the Pabeng River,
  A grave that the Burmans shun,
And there's Subadar Prag Tewarri
  Who tells how the work was done.
-------------------------------------



1,,
Summary-line: 16-Mar        sgilliam@neb.rr.com  [55] #OT Kicked off the list
X-Coding-System: undecided-unix
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From: "Sean Gilliam" <sgilliam@neb.rr.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
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I keep getting unsubscribed from the list. This happens every day. Is there
anything I can do to prevent this. Any help would be appreciated.





Sean Gilliam



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Summary-line: 16-Mar           lds627@attbi.com [139] #Re: Joel Rosenberg meets Ray
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References: <000901c1cc23$8c7fec40$6f8f6a86@eldamar>
 <002901c1cbba$9f0d7760$570199a8@atlasmail.com>
 <200203150707.25656@ellegon.com>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 07:51:42 -0800
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu, FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: LAR <lds627@attbi.com>
Subject: Re: Joel Rosenberg meets Ray
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

OK, I am hooked and my appetitie is more than whetted. Especially with a 
crossover - A rift murder? <G>.

BTW Joel it was the blurb from Ray that got me hooked on your books way 
back when

Larry

At 08:27 AM 3/15/02 -0600, Joel Rosenberg wrote:
>On Friday 15 March 2002 07:15 am, you wrote:
> > How did you and Ray come together?
> > I mean......yes...just how...?!:)
> >
> >
>
>Generally, we've been friends for something like a decade and a half;
>specifically, on this project, Ray called me up, and invited me in.
>
>I've never done a novel-length collaboration before -- and only a few short
>fiction ones -- and have steadfastly refused to do one, unless it met the
>following criteria:
>
>1.  Money.  In the US market, because of a glut of
>collaborations-that-aren't-collaborations-and-really-suck, the market
>defaults to seeing collaborations as something else, something not terribly
>interesting, and pays accordingly, unless things are explained real, real
>well.
>
>HarperUK was willing to, given Ray's history (and, one would hope, his choice
>of collaborators) and idea for the Tales of the Riftwar, both treat them as
>"real Ray Feist Riftwar books", and market -- and pay for them --
>accordingly.  Demonstrably, that worked for Honoured Enemy, and my hope is
>that it'll work for Murder in LaMut, too.
>
>2.  Cross-promotion.  If I'm going to spend time doing something new and
>difficult (and this didn't turn out to be near as difficult as I worried it
>might be -- it was a lot of work, but it was also a lot of fun), it also has
>to have a good chance of promoting my own books.  Once Ray and I agreed -- it
>took about thirty seconds; we both thought the idea was cool -- that it would
>be a murder mystery with Pirojil, Kethol, and Durine transplanted to
>Midkemia, it was pretty clear to me that this could easily cross-promote my
>fantasy books, as well.  It's a "real Ray Feist book", I hope, but it's also
>a "Midkemia/Guardians crossover," I hope.
>
>Ray's doing these three collaborations for a lot of reasons, but one of them
>is to enhance the audiences of his collaborators, as well as, to a lesser
>extent, his own already huge one.  Obviously, I gain more from that as, err,
>his is bigger than mine, but there are some Guardians fans who haven't been
>hooked on Ray's books -- yet -- so we both gain from that, although,
>obviously, I win more on that one.  Win-win.
>
>3.  Coolness.  There's a lot that I think is cool about the book, from the
>opening line, to the final scene.  A lot of that came in the writing, of
>course, but a couple of particularly cool bits came in the early discussion.
>Since, for reasons folks who have read Not Exactly the Three Musketeers and
>Not Quite Scaramouche will understand, Durine isn't available in my
>continuity, and Kethol isn't doing the professional soldier thing anymore, it
>was fun to have them back together again.  Those three guys are kind of
>special, and while they work -- real well, I think -- in the context, they
>look at things differently than Ray's characters tend to, and that's led to
>some (IMHO) great little bits.
>
>Did it work?  Well, in about a month and a half, y'all get to make up your
>own minds...
>
>There's also the coolness factor of focus.  As I've said before, if Ray and I
>were to write WWII vintage history, he'd do the War Between the Generals, and
>I'd follow a half a dozen guys in the 442nd RCT, most of whom would get blown
>away.  Nothing wrong with either of those, of course, but my preference for
>focussing on individuals whose fate isn't of global significance seemed to
>both of us to be likely to work well in the context of the Tales of the
>Riftwar, where we know how the big parts of the cycle come out.  The Kingdom
>isn't, from the POV of a reader who has read the first Midkemia books, really
>in play -- we can't rewrite the Riftwar to change the outcome -- but the
>lives of almost everybody in LaMut very much is.  (The only exceptions who
>appear in the book are Vandros and Fantus, who we know don't get killed
>during the time in question.  Everybody else is in play.)   Ray's done the
>politics stuff at the Kingdom and ducal level -- but there's some ...
>interesting dramatic possibilities in politics at the much lower level of
>land barons -- with a few court barons with other agendas -- dealing with
>each other, and we had fun exploring those.
>
>--
>-------------------------------------
>There's a widow in sleepy Chester
>   Who weeps for her only son;
>There's a grave on the Pabeng River,
>   A grave that the Burmans shun,
>And there's Subadar Prag Tewarri
>   Who tells how the work was done.
>-------------------------------------



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Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 07:53:19 -0800
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu, FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: LAR <lds627@attbi.com>
Subject: Re: Confused about Murder in LaMut
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

At 12:35 AM 3/16/02 -0600, Joel Rosenberg wrote:
>On Friday 15 March 2002 11:54 pm, you wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > I'm a little confused about Murder in LaMut.  From the
> > post made previously by Joel Rosenberg it seems to
> > indicate that Murder in LaMut is a cross-over with
> > another series.  Is this correct (i.e. will Murder not
> > make sense without first reading the Gaurdian books)?
> >
> > Stacy
>
>
>It's only a "crossover" in the sense that the three central characters in
>Murder in LaMut-- Pirojil, Kethol, and Durine -- just happen to have the same
>names, are in the same profession, and look and act the same (although have
>slightly different personal histories, as the Pirojil, Kethol and Durine of
>Murder in LaMut are native to Midkemia), as formerly minor characters in the
>Guardians books may add a certain something for Guardians fans, and may -- I
>hope -- be yet another reason for Feistfans who enjoy Murder in LaMut to pick
>up, say, Not Exactly the Three Musketeers.

Didja happen to find somebody named Walter Slovotsky while you were there?

Larry



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Summary-line: 16-Mar      raymond@bittersea.com  [60] #Re: Joel Rosenberg meets Ray
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 10:02:29 -0800
Subject: Re: Joel Rosenberg meets Ray
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Saturday, March 16, 2002, at 07:51 AM, LAR wrote:

> OK, I am hooked and my appetitie is more than whetted. Especially with 
> a crossover - A rift murder? <G>.
>
> BTW Joel it was the blurb from Ray that got me hooked on your books way 
> back when
>

OK, Joel, that's another buck you owe me!

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 10:01:56 -0800
Subject: Re: Confused about Murder in LaMut
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On Friday, March 15, 2002, at 09:54 PM, Stacy Tanaka wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I'm a little confused about Murder in LaMut.  From the
> post made previously by Joel Rosenberg it seems to
> indicate that Murder in LaMut is a cross-over with
> another series.  Is this correct (i.e. will Murder not
> make sense without first reading the Gaurdian books)?
>

It's not a crossover.  We just cloned three of Joel's best characters 
and made them Midkemians.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Subject: Re: Confused about Murder in LaMut
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 10:03:32 -0800
Subject: Re: Confused about Murder in LaMut
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Saturday, March 16, 2002, at 07:53 AM, LAR wrote:

> At 12:35 AM 3/16/02 -0600, Joel Rosenberg wrote:
>> On Friday 15 March 2002 11:54 pm, you wrote:
>> > Hi,
>> >
>> > I'm a little confused about Murder in LaMut.  From the
>> > post made previously by Joel Rosenberg it seems to
>> > indicate that Murder in LaMut is a cross-over with
>> > another series.  Is this correct (i.e. will Murder not
>> > make sense without first reading the Gaurdian books)?
>> >
>> > Stacy
>>
>>
>> It's only a "crossover" in the sense that the three central characters 
>> in
>> Murder in LaMut-- Pirojil, Kethol, and Durine -- just happen to have 
>> the same
>> names, are in the same profession, and look and act the same (although 
>> have
>> slightly different personal histories, as the Pirojil, Kethol and 
>> Durine of
>> Murder in LaMut are native to Midkemia), as formerly minor characters 
>> in the
>> Guardians books may add a certain something for Guardians fans, and 
>> may -- I
>> hope -- be yet another reason for Feistfans who enjoy Murder in LaMut 
>> to pick
>> up, say, Not Exactly the Three Musketeers.
>
> Didja happen to find somebody named Walter Slovotsky while you were 
> there?
>
>

Nope.  Walter's a little too central to Joel's universe to clone him, 
not to mention that he's from Earth originally and I intentionally keep 
Earth "off line" in the Midkemian reality.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 12:35:11 -0600
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*** EOOH ***
From: Joel Rosenberg <joelr@metzada.com>
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Confused about Murder in LaMut
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 12:35:11 -0600
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On Saturday 16 March 2002 09:53 am, you wrote:
> At 12:35 AM 3/16/02 -0600, Joel Rosenberg wrote:
> >On Friday 15 March 2002 11:54 pm, you wrote:
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > I'm a little confused about Murder in LaMut.  From the
> > > post made previously by Joel Rosenberg it seems to
> > > indicate that Murder in LaMut is a cross-over with
> > > another series.  Is this correct (i.e. will Murder not
> > > make sense without first reading the Gaurdian books)?
> > >
> > > Stacy
> >
> >It's only a "crossover" in the sense that the three central characters in
> >Murder in LaMut-- Pirojil, Kethol, and Durine -- just happen to have the
> > same names, are in the same profession, and look and act the same
> > (although have slightly different personal histories, as the Pirojil,
> > Kethol and Durine of Murder in LaMut are native to Midkemia), as formerly
> > minor characters in the Guardians books may add a certain something for
> > Guardians fans, and may -- I hope -- be yet another reason for Feistfans
> > who enjoy Murder in LaMut to pick up, say, Not Exactly the Three
> > Musketeers.
>
> Didja happen to find somebody named Walter Slovotsky while you were there?
>
> Larry

God, no.  Walter would not fit in, and does not play well with others.   He's 
terribly useful to me for a lot of reference points, but bringing him in or 
cloning him would cause far more trouble than I'd know how to solve, and it 
never was under consideration.  I don't think what Ray's doing with Midkemia 
would benefit from a modern American character, but, even if so, it would 
mean very serious things in his main continuity, and if somebody like that 
had been introduced during the first Riftwar, there'd be echoes of it 
throughout subsequent books, and there aren't.  

As to Kethol, Pirojil, and Durine, we very briefly and very idly discussed 
rifting them in, and both decided that that would create more problems than 
it would solve, as I'd have to deal with it, one way or another, in my own 
continuity, and cloning them made more sense, since they could easily fit in. 
There's a bit of Pirojil's backstory, involving a curse, that wouldn't quite 
translate, but since I've never been explicit about it in my own continuity, 
and since the issues didn't affect the plot, there wasn't any need to handle 
it at all in MiLM.  

Kethol's and Durine's personal history weren't problems -- in Kethol's case, 
for example, there are foresters of various sorts in both Ray's Midkemia and 
my Eren Regions, and no particular difficulty in the notion that the son of a 
forester would have taken up arms as a trade in either universe, and have 
similar sorts of skills.  Durine's an even simpler case -- in part, because 
he's a simpler guy.  

-- 
-------------------------------------
There's a widow in sleepy Chester
  Who weeps for her only son;
There's a grave on the Pabeng River,
  A grave that the Burmans shun,
And there's Subadar Prag Tewarri
  Who tells how the work was done.
-------------------------------------



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Subject: Re: Joel Rosenberg meets Ray
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Darren McClung" <dmcclung1@kc.rr.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Joel Rosenberg meets Ray
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 14:25:17 -0600
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> Ray's doing these three collaborations for a lot of reasons, but one of them
> is to enhance the audiences of his collaborators, as well as, to a lesser
> extent, his own already huge one.  Obviously, I gain more from that as, err,
> his is bigger than mine, but there are some Guardians fans who haven't been
> hooked on Ray's books -- yet -- so we both gain from that, although,
> obviously, I win more on that one.  Win-win.
>


Okay, I admit, I've never read any of Joel's books.  My interest is piqued
however, so, where should I start?

Darren



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*** EOOH ***
From: Joel Rosenberg <joelr@metzada.com>
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Joel Rosenberg meets Ray
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 15:04:37 -0600
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On Saturday 16 March 2002 02:25 pm, you wrote:
> > Ray's doing these three collaborations for a lot of reasons, but one of
>
> them
>
> > is to enhance the audiences of his collaborators, as well as, to a lesser
> > extent, his own already huge one.  Obviously, I gain more from that as,
>
> err,
>
> > his is bigger than mine, but there are some Guardians fans who haven't
>
> been
>
> > hooked on Ray's books -- yet -- so we both gain from that, although,
> > obviously, I win more on that one.  Win-win.
>
> Okay, I admit, I've never read any of Joel's books.  My interest is piqued
> however, so, where should I start?
>
> Darren

It's an interesting question, though; probably the best place to ask is at
http://www.slovotskys-laws.com.  Anywhere you want is fine with me, although 
the obvious candidates are:

The Sleeping Dragon -- my first novel, and also the first in the Guardians 
series; now out of print, but that's about to change, as Baen has picked up 
the first seven books in the series (and two of my out-of-print military SF 
novels), week before last.  

The Fire Duke -- first in the three Hidden Ways books, all of which are, 
thankfully, in print and easily available. 

Not Exactly the Three Musketeers -- the first of the Not... part of the 
Guardians cycle, from Tor, intended both to introduce folks to the series, 
and to stand alone, and, err, has some *very* similar characters to three 
you'll find in Murder in LaMut.  

-- 
-------------------------------------
There's a widow in sleepy Chester
  Who weeps for her only son;
There's a grave on the Pabeng River,
  A grave that the Burmans shun,
And there's Subadar Prag Tewarri
  Who tells how the work was done.
-------------------------------------



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Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 13:30:47 -0800
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At 10:02 AM 3/16/02 -0800, Raymond Feist wrote:

>On Saturday, March 16, 2002, at 07:51 AM, LAR wrote:
>
>>OK, I am hooked and my appetitie is more than whetted. Especially with a 
>>crossover - A rift murder? <G>.
>>
>>BTW Joel it was the blurb from Ray that got me hooked on your books way 
>>back when
>
>OK, Joel, that's another buck you owe me!
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>----

Well actually then he owes you about 10 bucks, since I started with the 
guardian of the flames series and of course had to get into the fireduke et 
al and just last month I picked up a used copy of not for glory. But since 
he doesn't make money off the used copies, I figure 10 bucks should cover it.

Larry



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Subject: Re: Joel Rosenberg meets Ray
In-Reply-To: <01f701c1cd28$b0111520$0200a8c0@zaknafein>
References: <002901c1cbba$9f0d7760$570199a8@atlasmail.com>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 13:36:30 -0800
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu, <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
From: LAR <lds627@attbi.com>
Subject: Re: Joel Rosenberg meets Ray
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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At 02:25 PM 3/16/02 -0600, Darren McClung wrote:
> > Ray's doing these three collaborations for a lot of reasons, but one of
>them
> > is to enhance the audiences of his collaborators, as well as, to a lesser
> > extent, his own already huge one.  Obviously, I gain more from that as,
>err,
> > his is bigger than mine, but there are some Guardians fans who haven't
>been
> > hooked on Ray's books -- yet -- so we both gain from that, although,
> > obviously, I win more on that one.  Win-win.
> >
>
>
>Okay, I admit, I've never read any of Joel's books.  My interest is piqued
>however, so, where should I start?
>
>Darren

Personally I recommend starting with the original Guardian of the flame 
series. The Sleeping Dragon, The Sword and The Chain, The Silver Crown and 
the Heir Apparent. One nice thing about Joel's books, and Rays for that 
matter is that the characters mature.

One quick question for Joel, would you object to a private e-mail OFF LIST? 
I will of course be courteous enough not to inundate or pester, but do have 
some questions I have always wanted to ask.

Larry



1,,
Summary-line: 16-Mar           lds627@attbi.com  [71] #Re: Confused about Murder in LaMut
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 13:42:22 -0800
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu, FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: LAR <lds627@attbi.com>
Subject: Re: Confused about Murder in LaMut
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At 10:03 AM 3/16/02 -0800, Raymond Feist wrote:


>>Didja happen to find somebody named Walter Slovotsky while you were there?
>>
>
>Nope.  Walter's a little too central to Joel's universe to clone him, not 
>to mention that he's from Earth originally and I intentionally keep Earth 
>"off line" in the Midkemian reality.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
>stupidity.

Actually that part was a joke. But damn wouldn't Ellegon have a fine time 
with Ruagh's daughter <G>. I can just see it now, a rift opens in the sky 
and in flys Ellegon with Jason and Janie on his back....

Never mind. Truth be told, I think the character archetypes chosen along 
with the setting are a fantastic cocept, and I will enjoy seeing how your 
two styles blend. I would love to see how Amos Trask would react to those 
three .

Larry



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Summary-line: 16-Mar            dershem@cox.net  [71] #Re: Joel Rosenberg meets Ray
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References: <002901c1cbba$9f0d7760$570199a8@atlasmail.com> <200203150707.25656@ellegon.com> <000901c1cc23$8c7fec40$6f8f6a86@eldamar> <200203150739.2566@ellegon.com> <01f701c1cd28$b0111520$0200a8c0@zaknafein>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 14:05:12 -0800
From: Carl Dershem <dershem@cox.net>
Organization: Project Selene
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Joel Rosenberg meets Ray
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Darren McClung wrote:
> 
> > Ray's doing these three collaborations for a lot of reasons, but one of
> them
> > is to enhance the audiences of his collaborators, as well as, to a lesser
> > extent, his own already huge one.  Obviously, I gain more from that as,
> err,
> > his is bigger than mine, but there are some Guardians fans who haven't
> been
> > hooked on Ray's books -- yet -- so we both gain from that, although,
> > obviously, I win more on that one.  Win-win.
> >
> 
> Okay, I admit, I've never read any of Joel's books.  My interest is piqued
> however, so, where should I start?
> 
> Darren

If you're primarily a fantasy reader, then "The sleeping dragon" is
highly recommended.  But all of his stuff is very readable and very
interesting.

cd
-- 
Death to all Absolutists!



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Summary-line: 16-Mar          joelr@metzada.com [102] #Re: Joel Rosenberg meets Ray
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*** EOOH ***
From: Joel Rosenberg <joelr@metzada.com>
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Joel Rosenberg meets Ray
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 16:07:02 -0600
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On Saturday 16 March 2002 03:36 pm, you wrote:
> At 02:25 PM 3/16/02 -0600, Darren McClung wrote:
> > > Ray's doing these three collaborations for a lot of reasons, but one of
> >
> >them
> >
> > > is to enhance the audiences of his collaborators, as well as, to a
> > > lesser extent, his own already huge one.  Obviously, I gain more from
> > > that as,
> >
> >err,
> >
> > > his is bigger than mine, but there are some Guardians fans who haven't
> >
> >been
> >
> > > hooked on Ray's books -- yet -- so we both gain from that, although,
> > > obviously, I win more on that one.  Win-win.
> >
> >Okay, I admit, I've never read any of Joel's books.  My interest is piqued
> >however, so, where should I start?
> >
> >Darren
>
> Personally I recommend starting with the original Guardian of the flame
> series. The Sleeping Dragon, The Sword and The Chain, The Silver Crown and
> the Heir Apparent. One nice thing about Joel's books, and Rays for that
> matter is that the characters mature.
>

Well, that's my hope.  It took a long time to set up for The Road to Ehvenor, 
for example, but I hope the payoff was worth it.  (It shook up my old friend 
Bill Reich, who was utterly sure that I didn't have anything more to say with 
the Guardians books.)  


> One quick question for Joel, would you object to a private e-mail OFF LIST?
> I will of course be courteous enough not to inundate or pester, but do have
> some questions I have always wanted to ask.
>
> Larry

Not a problem; feel invited/free.  


-- 
-------------------------------------
There's a widow in sleepy Chester
  Who weeps for her only son;
There's a grave on the Pabeng River,
  A grave that the Burmans shun,
And there's Subadar Prag Tewarri
  Who tells how the work was done.
-------------------------------------



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Summary-line: 16-Mar          Valheru22@aol.com  [48] #Resident Evil
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Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 19:19:18 EST
Subject: Resident Evil
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*** EOOH ***
From: Valheru22@aol.com
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 19:19:18 EST
Subject: Resident Evil
To: feistfans-l@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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If you see any movie see Resident Evil. I do not care if you have never 
played the game. The person who put that together was amzing. You see Zombies 
in movies and laugh but this was like seeing 9-11 in theaters and then seeing 
it happen in real life. This movie was so real it is like you believe this 
could happen and say, "Oh shit what if this happens to us!"
-Chance



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Have never heard of Resident evil.  Am from Sydney, Australia....is it out on video? old or new?

*** EOOH ***
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From: "Rachel Unwin" <jeddasw@hotmail.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Resident Evil
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 11:56:13 +1100
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Have never heard of Resident evil.  Am from Sydney, Australia....is it out on video? old or new?

Rachel  
  
----- Original Message -----
>From: Valheru22@aol.com
>Sent: Sunday, March 17, 2002 11:52 AM
>To: feistfans-l@cornell.edu
>Subject: Resident Evil
>  
>If you see any movie see Resident Evil. I do not care if you have never
>played the game. The person who put that together was amzing. You see Zombies
>in movies and laugh but this was like seeing 9-11 in theaters and then seeing
>it happen in real life. This movie was so real it is like you believe this
>could happen and say, "Oh shit what if this happens to us!"
>-ChanceGet more from the Web.  FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com

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Subject: Re: Resident Evil
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*** EOOH ***
From: JEEPMONSTER69@aol.com
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 20:49:55 EST
Subject: Re: Resident Evil
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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In a message dated 3/16/2002 8:27:49 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
jeddasw@hotmail.com writes:


> Have never heard of Resident evil.  Am from Sydney, Australia....is it out 
> on video? old or new?
>  
> Rachel 
> 

Resident Evil is a 3rd Person Shooter/puzzle game, where one must, obviously, 
solve puzzles and kill zombies.  It was originally released in Japan under 
the title Bio-Hazard, and first came out in the good old US of A in, I 
believe, 97 or 98.

                                           Peace,

                                                       Matt

"Lets Roll."- Todd Beamer
USA, Muthafacko!

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From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
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Subject: [OT] Re: Resident Evil 
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 19:55:55 -0600
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: [OT] Re: Resident Evil 
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 19:55:55 -0600
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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It is a movie just released here Stateside, based off of a popular
video game.  Frankly this topic needs to be killed before it goes
any father.  Chance, stop starting OT threads.

-James (who has absolutely no interest in movies written from video
games, is completely unimpressed by special effects as a reason to
go see any movie, and is even less amused by comparisons of a
fictional movie to 9-11)

----- Original Message -----
>
>Have never heard of Resident evil.  Am from Sydney, Australia....is
>it out on video? old or new?
>
>Rachel
>
>----- Original Message -----
>
>If you see any movie see Resident Evil. I do not care if you have
>never played the game. The person who put that together was amzing.
>You see Zombies in movies and laugh but this was like seeing 9-11 in
>theaters and then seeing it happen in real life. This movie was so
>real it is like you believe this could happen and say, "Oh shit what
>if this happens to us!"
>
>-Chance
>


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*** EOOH ***
From: JEEPMONSTER69@aol.com
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 21:32:04 EST
Subject: Re: [OT] Re: Resident Evil 
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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In a message dated 3/16/2002 9:27:15 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
jajy@earthlink.net writes:


> It is a movie just released here Stateside, based off of a popular
> video game.  Frankly this topic needs to be killed before it goes
> any father.  Chance, stop starting OT threads.
> 
> 

Amen

1,,
Summary-line: 17-Mar         wolf@icenet.com.au  [75] #Angus & Robertson Top 10
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From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Angus & Robertson Top 10
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 11:02:50 +0800
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*** EOOH ***
From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Angus & Robertson Top 10
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 11:02:50 +0800
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I was just flciking through an A&R catalogue and I found their annual
top 10 lists.

There is no Fantasy category, but the Sci-Fi column took my interest in
place

1. Lord of the Rings - J.R.R. Tolkien
2. The Hobbit - J.R.R. Tolkien
3. The Magician - Raymond E. Fiest  (That's the way it's printed there
<sigh>)

And for those interested now I've done the part I wanted to I'll give
you the remainder of the list

4. Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy - Douglas Adams
5. 2001: A Space Odyssey - Arthur C. Clarke
6. Dune - Frank Herbert
7. Mists of Avalon - Marion Zimmer Bradley
8. Wheel of Time Series - Robert Jordan
9. Belgariad Series - David Eddings
10. Discworld Series - Terry Pratchett


And for those Harry Potter fans wondering where he went there is a
separate Kid's list at which he is on the top of.

Dave



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From: "Cameron Duncan" <cduncan@atinera.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Angus & Robertson Top 10
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 13:20:28 +1000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Cameron Duncan" <cduncan@atinera.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Angus & Robertson Top 10
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 13:20:28 +1000
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Yeah, read that list to.  Good to see Ray's right up there.  

Funny thing about it being printed as "The Magician" - when I saw the 
Mythmakers video, the interviewer refered to it as "The Magician" also.
I always thought it was just "Magician"?

Cameron
Brisbane Australia

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of David Pengelley
> Sent: Sunday, March 17, 2002 13:03
> To: FEISTFANS-L
> Subject: Angus & Robertson Top 10
> 
> 
> I was just flciking through an A&R catalogue and I found their annual
> top 10 lists.
> 
> There is no Fantasy category, but the Sci-Fi column took my interest in
> place
> 
> 1. Lord of the Rings - J.R.R. Tolkien
> 2. The Hobbit - J.R.R. Tolkien
> 3. The Magician - Raymond E. Fiest  (That's the way it's printed there
> <sigh>)
> 
> And for those interested now I've done the part I wanted to I'll give
> you the remainder of the list
> 
> 4. Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy - Douglas Adams
> 5. 2001: A Space Odyssey - Arthur C. Clarke
> 6. Dune - Frank Herbert
> 7. Mists of Avalon - Marion Zimmer Bradley
> 8. Wheel of Time Series - Robert Jordan
> 9. Belgariad Series - David Eddings
> 10. Discworld Series - Terry Pratchett
> 
> 
> And for those Harry Potter fans wondering where he went there is a
> separate Kid's list at which he is on the top of.
> 
> Dave
> 
> 



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Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 22:59:09 EST
Subject: Re: Resident Evil
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From: Valheru22@aol.com
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 22:59:09 EST
Subject: Re: Resident Evil
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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Its new



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*** EOOH ***
From: Valheru22@aol.com
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 23:00:48 EST
Subject: Re: [OT] Re: Resident Evil 
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In a message dated 3/16/2002 6:27:15 PM Pacific Standard Time, 
jajy@earthlink.net writes:


> It is a movie just released here Stateside, based off of a popular
> video game.  Frankly this topic needs to be killed before it goes
> any father.  Chance, stop starting OT threads.
> 
> -James 

James I would apreciate you keeping your trap shut considering you have 
started many before! I will talk about what I like, besides this list was 
getting quite so BACK OFF!
-Chance

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Summary-line: 17-Mar  s356179@student.uq.edu.au  [98] #RE: Angus & Robertson Top 10
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From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Angus & Robertson Top 10
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 14:18:11 +1000 (GMT+1000)
From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Angus & Robertson Top 10
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It's just Magician - the interviewer got it wrong:)

> Yeah, read that list to.  Good to see Ray's right up there.
>
> Funny thing about it being printed as "The Magician" - when I saw the
> Mythmakers video, the interviewer refered to it as "The Magician" also.
> I always thought it was just "Magician"?
>
> Cameron
> Brisbane Australia
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of David Pengelley
> > Sent: Sunday, March 17, 2002 13:03
> > To: FEISTFANS-L
> > Subject: Angus & Robertson Top 10
> >
> >
> > I was just flciking through an A&R catalogue and I found their annual
> > top 10 lists.
> >
> > There is no Fantasy category, but the Sci-Fi column took my interest in
> > place
> >
> > 1. Lord of the Rings - J.R.R. Tolkien
> > 2. The Hobbit - J.R.R. Tolkien
> > 3. The Magician - Raymond E. Fiest  (That's the way it's printed there
> > <sigh>)
> >
> > And for those interested now I've done the part I wanted to I'll give
> > you the remainder of the list
> >
> > 4. Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy - Douglas Adams
> > 5. 2001: A Space Odyssey - Arthur C. Clarke
> > 6. Dune - Frank Herbert
> > 7. Mists of Avalon - Marion Zimmer Bradley
> > 8. Wheel of Time Series - Robert Jordan
> > 9. Belgariad Series - David Eddings
> > 10. Discworld Series - Terry Pratchett
> >
> >
> > And for those Harry Potter fans wondering where he went there is a
> > separate Kid's list at which he is on the top of.
> >
> > Dave
> >
> >
>
>

Thanks
Darragh
-=-=
www.iamtheporkfireman.com
[Email]: s356179@student.uq.edu.au [ICQ]: 114283262



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*** EOOH ***
From: JEEPMONSTER69@aol.com
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 23:44:01 EST
Subject: Re: Angus & Robertson Top 10
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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In a message dated 3/16/2002 10:41:10 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
wolf@icenet.com.au writes:


> I was just flciking through an A&R catalogue and I found their annual
> top 10 lists.
> 
> There is no Fantasy category, but the Sci-Fi column took my interest in
> place
> 
> 1. Lord of the Rings - J.R.R. Tolkien
> 2. The Hobbit - J.R.R. Tolkien
> 3. The Magician - Raymond E. Fiest  (That's the way it's printed there
> <sigh>)
> 
> And for those interested now I've done the part I wanted to I'll give
> you the remainder of the list
> 
> 4. Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy - Douglas Adams
> 5. 2001: A Space Odyssey - Arthur C. Clarke
> 6. Dune - Frank Herbert
> 7. Mists of Avalon - Marion Zimmer Bradley
> 8. Wheel of Time Series - Robert Jordan
> 9. Belgariad Series - David Eddings
> 10. Discworld Series - Terry Pratchett
> 
> 
> And for those Harry Potter fans wondering where he went there is a
> separate Kid's list at which he is on the top of.
> 
> Dave
> 
> 
                               Ray,


            Congratulatons. You have singlehandedly beaten out some of the 
greatest authors of the 20th century. Well Done- even if they did spell your 
name wrong.

                                           Peace,

                                                       Matt

"Lets Roll."- Todd Beamer
USA, Muthafacko!

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From: JEEPMONSTER69@aol.com
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 23:45:14 EST
Subject: Re: [OT] Re: Resident Evil 
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In a message dated 3/16/2002 11:27:31 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
Valheru22@aol.com writes:


> 
> James I would apreciate you keeping your trap shut considering you have 
> started many before! I will talk about what I like, besides this list was 
> getting quite so BACK OFF!
> 

Holy Shit. People fighting over simple comments...its sad.

                                           Peace,
                                                 Matt
"That Brown Patch needs a little H2O, Oh Yeah!!!"- DUFFMAN

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Subject: Re: [OT] Re: Resident Evil 
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: [OT] Re: Resident Evil 
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 23:03:37 -0600
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> > James I would apreciate you keeping your trap shut considering
> > you have started many before! I will talk about what I like, besides
> > this list was getting quite so BACK OFF!

Chance, grow up and get your facts straight. I generally don't start
off-topic threads though I am often the first to be nice and add the
official [OT] to the header. I do admit I have continued a few, but
I am not trying to do that here.

> Holy Shit. People fighting over simple comments...its sad.

It would be sad if people were fighting, but I'm not fighting.  The
origional post from me was a simple assessment that Chance's post
was not appropriate (either for the list, or in general), and I have
every interest in ending this right now.  Besides if I don't Dan
will, and he hates having to step in.

-James (one of many on the list)



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Subject: Re: [OT] Re: Resident Evil 
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*** EOOH ***
From: Valheru22@aol.com
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 00:17:42 EST
Subject: Re: [OT] Re: Resident Evil 
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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In a message dated 3/16/2002 9:16:57 PM Pacific Standard Time, 
JEEPMONSTER69@aol.com writes:


> Holy Shit. People fighting over simple comments...its sad. 
> 
>                                           Peace, 
>                                                 Matt 
> "That Brown Patch needs a little H2O, Oh Yeah!!!"- DUFFMAN 

Nothing else to argue about :/
-Chance

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From: "Steven McCarthy" <steven@connect.ie>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: [OT] Re: Resident Evil 
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 05:29:56 -0000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Steven McCarthy" <steven@connect.ie>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: [OT] Re: Resident Evil 
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 05:29:56 -0000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Welcome to the $hitlist Chance.

1. You started an OT thread.
2. You used a very irritating 'Americanism' - i.e. 9-11. Personally I
despise the growing American trend to reduce disasters/tragedies to
abbreviations. Besides - in Europe it would be 11-9 if we subscribed to it.
(NB - don't flame me onlist for this - do it private!)
3. You acted like an a$$hole when a rule of the list was pointed out to you.
You are perfectly welcome to talk about anything you want elsewhere but
there are rules on this list.
 3a. Even if James has started OT threads before it doesn't make it right
and don't use it as an excuse for you to start one yourself.
  3b. The list getting quite (sic) is not necessarily a bad thing. It's also
a very poor excuse to start a thread about a film that has nothing to do
with the topic.


Steve
"Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then
do it." -- Lazarus Long


-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On
>Behalf Of Valheru22@aol.com
>Sent: 17 March 2002 04:01
>To: FEISTFANS-L
>Subject: Re: [OT] Re: Resident Evil
>
>
>In a message dated 3/16/2002 6:27:15 PM Pacific Standard Time,
>jajy@earthlink.net writes:
>
>
>
>It is a movie just released here Stateside, based off of a popular
>video game.  Frankly this topic needs to be killed before it goes
>any father.  Chance, stop starting OT threads.
>
>-James
>
>
>James I would apreciate you keeping your trap shut considering you have
>started many before! I will talk about what I like, besides this list was
>getting quite so BACK OFF!
>-Chance

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*** EOOH ***
From: Adam012882@cs.com
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 00:27:21 EST
Subject: Re: [OT] Re: Resident Evil 
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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In a message dated 3/16/02 9:16:53 PM Pacific Standard Time, 
JEEPMONSTER69@aol.com writes:
> Holy Shit. People fighting over simple comments...its sad.
> 
>					     Peace,
>						   Matt
why dont you shut up! people could fight over comments if they want too, 
because its cool, and stuff, thing. YEAH! lol jk
-Me



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*** EOOH ***
From: Valheru22@aol.com
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 00:37:30 EST
Subject: Re: [OT] Re: Resident Evil 
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

In a message dated 3/16/2002 9:34:11 PM Pacific Standard Time, 
jajy@earthlink.net writes:


> Chance, grow up and get your facts straight. I generally don't start
> off-topic threads though I am often the first to be nice and add the
> official [OT] to the header. I do admit I have continued a few, but
> I am not trying to do that here.
> 
> > Holy Shit. People fighting over simple comments...its sad.
> 
> It would be sad if people were fighting, but I'm not fighting.  The
> origional post from me was a simple assessment that Chance's post
> was not appropriate (either for the list, or in general), and I have
> every interest in ending this right now.  Besides if I don't Dan
> will, and he hates having to step in.
> 
> -James (one of many on the list)
> 
> 

Gimme one good reason this isn;t appropriot and that friggen gun thing awhile 
back was! Oh and who replied to that several times? Yes you did. I rest my 
case. I was simply stateing something that maybe a few people would like to 
talk about. Oh and what about the whole freaking count of monte cristo Topic. 
Who replied to it? Yes you did. And please don't tell me it is because that 
was on a book because Resident Evil also has books. 
-Chance

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*** EOOH ***
From: JEEPMONSTER69@aol.com
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 00:46:19 EST
Subject: Re: [OT] Re: Resident Evil 
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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In a message dated 3/17/2002 12:45:46 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
Valheru22@aol.com writes:


> Nothing else to argue about :/
> 

Truth.

                                     Peace, 
                                                 Matt
"Lets Roll."- Todd Beamer
USA, Muthafacko!

1,,
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From: "Steven McCarthy" <steven@connect.ie>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: [OT] Re: Resident Evil 
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 05:55:45 -0000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Steven McCarthy" <steven@connect.ie>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: [OT] Re: Resident Evil 
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 05:55:45 -0000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Oops - forgot to remove the ECard and this was supposed to be offlist -
Sorry all.


Steve
"Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then
do it." -- Lazarus Long

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Steven McCarthy
> Sent: 17 March 2002 05:30
> To: FEISTFANS-L
> Subject: RE: [OT] Re: Resident Evil
>
>
>
> Welcome to the $hitlist Chance.
>
> 1. You started an OT thread.
> 2. You used a very irritating 'Americanism' - i.e. 9-11. Personally I
> despise the growing American trend to reduce disasters/tragedies to
> abbreviations. Besides - in Europe it would be 11-9 if we
> subscribed to it.
> (NB - don't flame me onlist for this - do it private!)
> 3. You acted like an a$$hole when a rule of the list was pointed
> out to you.
> You are perfectly welcome to talk about anything you want elsewhere but
> there are rules on this list.
>  3a. Even if James has started OT threads before it doesn't make it right
> and don't use it as an excuse for you to start one yourself.
>   3b. The list getting quite (sic) is not necessarily a bad
> thing. It's also
> a very poor excuse to start a thread about a film that has nothing to do
> with the topic.
>
>
> Steve
> "Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done
> and why. Then
> do it." -- Lazarus Long
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On
> Behalf Of Valheru22@aol.com
> Sent: 17 March 2002 04:01
> To: FEISTFANS-L
> Subject: Re: [OT] Re: Resident Evil
>
>
> In a message dated 3/16/2002 6:27:15 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> jajy@earthlink.net writes:
>
>
>
> It is a movie just released here Stateside, based off of a popular
> video game.  Frankly this topic needs to be killed before it goes
> any father.  Chance, stop starting OT threads.
>
> -James
>
>
> James I would apreciate you keeping your trap shut considering you have
> started many before! I will talk about what I like, besides this list was
> getting quite so BACK OFF!
> -Chance
>



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Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 00:56:16 EST
Subject: Re: [OT] Re: Resident Evil 
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*** EOOH ***
From: JEEPMONSTER69@aol.com
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 00:56:16 EST
Subject: Re: [OT] Re: Resident Evil 
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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In a message dated 3/17/2002 12:54:45 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
steven@connect.ie writes:


> Welcome to the $hitlist Chance.
> 
> 1. You started an OT thread.
> 2. You used a very irritating 'Americanism' - i.e. 9-11. Personally I
> despise the growing American trend to reduce disasters/tragedies to
> abbreviations. Besides - in Europe it would be 11-9 if we subscribed to it.
> (NB - don't flame me onlist for this - do it private!)
> 3. You acted like an a$$hole when a rule of the list was pointed out to you.
> You are perfectly welcome to talk about anything you want elsewhere but
> there are rules on this list.
> 3a. Even if James has started OT threads before it doesn't make it right
> and don't use it as an excuse for you to start one yourself.
>   3b. The list getting quite (sic) is not necessarily a bad thing. It's also
> a very poor excuse to start a thread about a film that has nothing to do
> with the topic.
> 
> 
> Steve
> "Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then
> do it." -- Lazarus Long
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On
> Behalf Of Valheru22@aol.com
> Sent: 17 March 2002 04:01
> To: FEISTFANS-L
> Subject: Re: [OT] Re: Resident Evil
> 
> 
> In a message dated 3/16/2002 6:27:15 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> jajy@earthlink.net writes:
> 
> 
> 
> It is a movie just released here Stateside, based off of a popular
> video game.  Frankly this topic needs to be killed before it goes
> any father.  Chance, stop starting OT threads.
> 
> -James
> 
> 

IM sorry? I lost my cousin on September 11th, and I would appreciate you not 
saying anything more, you schmuck.
                                                 Peace,
                                                       Matt
"Lets Roll."- Todd Beamer
USA, Muthafacko!

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From: "Steven McCarthy" <steven@connect.ie>
To: "Feistfans" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: [OT] Re: Resident Evil 
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 06:24:26 -0000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Steven McCarthy" <steven@connect.ie>
To: "Feistfans" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: [OT] Re: Resident Evil 
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 06:24:26 -0000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I am truly sorry to hear that. My meaning was that reducing that event to a
simple date such as 9-11 trivialises it. I did not mean any offense to you
or any other relations of the victims.



Steve
One of The Collective
http://learn.at/ahh
"Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then
do it." -- Lazarus Long

>  -----Original Message-----
>  From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of JEEPMONSTER69@aol.com
>  Sent: 17 March 2002 05:56
>  To: FEISTFANS-L
>  Subject: Re: [OT] Re: Resident Evil
>
>
>  IM sorry? I lost my cousin on September 11th, and I would appreciate you
>not saying anything more, you schmuck.
>						   Peace,
>							 Matt
>  "Lets Roll."- Todd Beamer
>  USA, Muthafacko!

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*** EOOH ***
From: Adam012882@cs.com
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 02:05:43 EST
Subject: Re: [OT] Re: Resident Evil 
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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i lost my watch on 9/11. I was really distraught, but time cured that.
-me
(no offense to anyone, i'm always trying to break tense situations with humor)



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Summary-line: 17-Mar  somedude1_2000@hotmail.co  [60] #chat with your fans
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hey every1
no doubt you all know the REF fan site called hall of worlds
there has been a discussion in the forum about establishing a chatroom 
related to the site
it would be an IRC basted chatroom and could be logged onto using an IRC 
client or a similar java applet on the acual site
i was wondering if Mr Feist would consider coming to the chatroom when it is 
established and talking to us
and also i wans wondering how many books do you plan to write in the 
midkemian reality before you retire? i hope u never stop writing them
cya

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.



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To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
References: <ff.150fdca5.29c5859a@aol.com>
Subject: Re: [OT] Resident Evil 
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: [OT] Resident Evil 
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 02:15:26 -0600
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> Gimme one good reason this isn;t appropriot and that friggen gun
> thing awhile back was! Oh and who replied to that several times? Yes
> you did.

You said I started those, I did not, hence the statment that your
facts weren't right.  I said I had replied to several OT
conversations before, either way most of those have diverged from
relivant conversations that had broadened.  Either way I got off
list with that and had a couple of conversations that the rest of
the list was not privy to, which is the norm for me and OT threads.
I take them off list withing a few posts in the vast majority of
cases when I am participating.  Regardless, you prove nothing since
I merely stipulated that I don't start these things, but I will end
them.

> I rest my case. I was simply stateing something that maybe a few
> people would like to talk about. Oh and what about the whole freaking
> count of monte cristo Topic. Who replied to it? Yes you did.

That was a different James not me.  Remember there are at least 6
James' on this list.  I don't recall saying much about that topic
and IIRC Ray had something to say about it and what he wants to talk
about goes.  Default rule.  That applies a lot when the topic is
Wine, Beer, or Spirits.  The last major OT conversation I had in
relation to this list was the one about Sex and Culture which became
a conversation about religion, which as several other members can
tell you I took off list almost immediately when it got to be a
distraction to the list.

> And please don't tell me it is because that was on a book because
> Resident Evil also has books.

This has nothing to do with the media format, it has to do with list
policy of not starting Non-REF related threads.  Which right now is
very silly to do since Joel has been nice enough to show up
unannounced and give us another look into the world of fantasy from
an author's perspective.  Now I am going to stop wasting everyone's
bandwidth and if you feel the need to pester me more about this you
can be nice and do it off list (provided you don't irritate me
enough in the next 8 hours to land in my killfile with SkyHall,
Calvin, and Toadstool).  I for one am more interested in the other
conversations at hand.

-James

"Science is to neither prove or disprove
the existence of the world around man,
science is merely to explain the existence
of what is known."



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It would be gret to have a feist chat room as I use IRC.
Hope Ray never stops writing either!!!!

Rachel  
  
----- Original Message -----
>From: Some DuDe
>Sent: Sunday, March 17, 2002 7:01 PM
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: chat with your fans
>  
>
>
>
>hey every1
>no doubt you all know the REF fan site called hall of worlds
>there has been a discussion in the forum about establishing a chatroom
>related to the site
>it would be an IRC basted chatroom and could be logged onto using an IRC
>client or a similar java applet on the acual site
>i was wondering if Mr Feist would consider coming to the chatroom when it is
>established and talking to us
>and also i wans wondering how many books do you plan to write in the
>midkemian reality before you retire? i hope u never stop writing them
>cya
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.Get more from the Web.  FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com

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From: "Rachel Unwin" <jeddasw@hotmail.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: [OT] Re: Resident Evil
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 19:19:48 +1100
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*** EOOH ***
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From: "Rachel Unwin" <jeddasw@hotmail.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: [OT] Re: Resident Evil
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 19:19:48 +1100
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ha ha

Rachel
  
  
----- Original Message -----
>From: Adam012882@cs.com
>Sent: Sunday, March 17, 2002 6:36 PM
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: Re: [OT] Re: Resident Evil
>  
>i lost my watch on 9/11. I was really distraught, but time cured that.
>-me
>(no offense to anyone, i'm always trying to break tense situations with humor)Get more from the Web.  FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com

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From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
References: <OE27ii08N8yxdZjfNLn0000d4b8@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: chat with your fans
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 02:31:39 -0600
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: chat with your fans
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 02:31:39 -0600
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

    I think I still prefer the list, for one it makes it less time
restrictive, since not all of us can be available when Ray is, nor
are we going to sit in a chatroom 24/7 hoping he shows up.
    Nor do we have the problems of Chat in general (crashes/boots
for the most part are limited to a few missed posts, not a whole
conversation).  Then there are the problems with flamers, hackers,
crackers, and other annoyances that come with IRC and other chat
systems.  Not everyone has a firewall.
    We also don't have to deal with the interplay of our own
personalities quite as much here.  Though some of us are notable in
our personalities (I'm gonna be mean and cite Rip), it is probably a
bad thing to have open season on each other on a chat room when some
of us are dominant personalities in more open forums (I won't deny I
am one of those).  Also since the only common thread between many of
us is our love of Ray's works as has been shown by numerous other
flamewars in the past.
    The next problem is that some people still pay by the minute or
hour for internet access.  Most of them will not want to pay that
kind of money for this service.  It isn't fair to cheat them out of
a forum because of that.
    Finally I argue against chats because they always lead to
problems with software conflicts.  Text E-mail doesn't.

    BTW Some DuDe can you use capitalization, attempt proper
punctuation, and use somewhat less run-on sentences.  Your post is
difficult to read as it is.  (I think you spend to much time in
Chatrooms as is, and it seems to be affecting your grammatical
skills in a negative manner.)

-James


----- Original Message -----
>
>hey every1
>no doubt you all know the REF fan site called hall of worlds
>there has been a discussion in the forum about establishing a
>chatroom
>related to the site it would be an IRC basted chatroom and could be
>logged onto using an IRC client or a similar java applet on the
>acual site
>i was wondering if Mr Feist would consider coming to the chatroom
>when it is established and talking to us and also i wans wondering
>how many books do you plan to write in the midkemian reality before
>you retire? i hope u never stop writing them
>cya
>


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From: "Nevyn" <alien4@wasp.net.au>
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Nevyn" <alien4@wasp.net.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 16:48:23 +0800
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

This truly is sad.

If the list was kept to simply ONTOPIC RAY STUFF then their would be
very few e-mails due to the fact that if someone asks a question that
was asked 5 years ago they get flamed.

I will no longer be subscribed to this list. It truly is sad. When I
saw the webpage it said A EMAIL LIST FOR REF FANS TO FIND EACH
OTHER. Truly. T'is unfortunate pricks like James Young have to have a
smug and superior attitude and ruin it for all the younger fans who
would like to talk with one another.

Did you ever notice the "Delete" key, which is placed under the
"Insert" key, next to the "End" key under the "Home" key above the
Arrow Pad on your keyboard, James?

Thanks,
              Nevyn
_______________________________________________________________________

Not every love, but only that which has a noble purpose, is noble and worthy of praise.
 
- Plato (c. 428-348 BC)
_______________________________________________________________________

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From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: chat with your fans
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 19:23:22 +1000 (GMT+1000)
From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: chat with your fans
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I use IRC a lot, and would be glad to chat with other people on the
list,...just tell me the server and the room:)


> It would be gret to have a feist chat room as I use IRC.
> Hope Ray never stops writing either!!!!
>
> Rachel
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Some DuDe
> Sent: Sunday, March 17, 2002 7:01 PM
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Subject: chat with your fans
>
>
>
>
> hey every1
> no doubt you all know the REF fan site called hall of worlds
> there has been a discussion in the forum about establishing a chatroom
> related to the site
> it would be an IRC basted chatroom and could be logged onto using an IRC
> client or a similar java applet on the acual site
> i was wondering if Mr Feist would consider coming to the chatroom when it is
> established and talking to us
> and also i wans wondering how many books do you plan to write in the
> midkemian reality before you retire? i hope u never stop writing them
> cya
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.Get more from the Web.  FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com
>

Thanks
Darragh
-=-=
www.iamtheporkfireman.com
[Email]: s356179@student.uq.edu.au [ICQ]: 114283262



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From: "Some DuDe" <somedude1_2000@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re: chat with your fans
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*** EOOH ***
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From: "Some DuDe" <somedude1_2000@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: chat with your fans
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 20:28:58 +1100
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thanks for that extended reply James
i dont have time to waste on punctuation and you are the first person to 
mind my punctuation and comment on it
i respect your opinion but wat i mean is to have a set time of GMT that Ray 
will be available
similar to other celebrity chating sessions
we can have someone who knows what they r doing to set it all up
it doesnt have to be IRC based
i find the mailing list very slow and the worst part is that i seem to get a 
million emails a day which is very annoying
i would prefer the chat to this any day


>From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
>Subject: Re: chat with your fans
>Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 02:31:39 -0600
>
>     I think I still prefer the list, for one it makes it less time
>restrictive, since not all of us can be available when Ray is, nor
>are we going to sit in a chatroom 24/7 hoping he shows up.
>     Nor do we have the problems of Chat in general (crashes/boots
>for the most part are limited to a few missed posts, not a whole
>conversation).  Then there are the problems with flamers, hackers,
>crackers, and other annoyances that come with IRC and other chat
>systems.  Not everyone has a firewall.
>     We also don't have to deal with the interplay of our own
>personalities quite as much here.  Though some of us are notable in
>our personalities (I'm gonna be mean and cite Rip), it is probably a
>bad thing to have open season on each other on a chat room when some
>of us are dominant personalities in more open forums (I won't deny I
>am one of those).  Also since the only common thread between many of
>us is our love of Ray's works as has been shown by numerous other
>flamewars in the past.
>     The next problem is that some people still pay by the minute or
>hour for internet access.  Most of them will not want to pay that
>kind of money for this service.  It isn't fair to cheat them out of
>a forum because of that.
>     Finally I argue against chats because they always lead to
>problems with software conflicts.  Text E-mail doesn't.
>
>     BTW Some DuDe can you use capitalization, attempt proper
>punctuation, and use somewhat less run-on sentences.  Your post is
>difficult to read as it is.  (I think you spend to much time in
>Chatrooms as is, and it seems to be affecting your grammatical
>skills in a negative manner.)
>
>-James
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>
>hey every1
>no doubt you all know the REF fan site called hall of worlds
>there has been a discussion in the forum about establishing a
>chatroom
>related to the site it would be an IRC basted chatroom and could be
>logged onto using an IRC client or a similar java applet on the
>acual site
>i was wondering if Mr Feist would consider coming to the chatroom
>when it is established and talking to us and also i wans wondering
>how many books do you plan to write in the midkemian reality before
>you retire? i hope u never stop writing them
>cya
>




_________________________________________________________________
Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
http://www.hotmail.com



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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: (OT) Re: chat with your fans
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*** EOOH ***
From: Russell.S.Teeter@kp.org
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: (OT) Re: chat with your fans
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 03:15:27 -0800
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

James,

Although you have some good points, it all comes down to what people 
perceive as Off-Topic, notice the following:

Chance's E-Mail -
>If you see any movie see Resident Evil. I do not care if you have never 
>played the game. The person who put that together was amzing. You see 
>Zombies 
>in movies and laugh but this was like seeing 9-11 in theaters and then 
>seeing 
>it happen in real life. This movie was so real it is like you believe this 
>
>could happen and say, "Oh shit what if this happens to us!"
>-Chance

Potential Off-topic subjects I have seen perceived as on-topic and not 
criticized -
Ray,
Have you seen the movie Resident Evil, if so, what do you think. "It doesn't matter if you have never 
played the game. The person who put that together was amzing. You see 
Zombies 
in movies and laugh." "This movie was so real it is like you believe this 
could happen and say, "Oh shit what if this happens to us!""
-Chance

Note: Since I am quoting Chance, I have kept the message exactly as 
written.

By adding those few words, sometimes we won't question the post but it is 
basically the same.  Also, if you want to blast someone outright, at least 
do them the courtesy of doing it off-list.  Also, participating in an 
off-topic post is just as disruptive to the list as starting one since 
once started "everyone" is given free reign to reply to what has been 
said.  Hopefully everyone understand the meaning.

And just a special courtesy to Some DuDe.  One thing I have learned from 
Ray over the years is that it really irks him and others on the list when 
you say things like the following:

"i dont have time to waste on punctuation" as well as using words like 
"wat and r".  Things like this tend to get referred to as "Some DuDe's 
time is more important than everyone else's because he doesn't want to 
take the time to do those things the correct way".  Without knowing your 
nationality, the list prefers that all First Language English-speaking 
"people" use proper grammar and spelling to help those from other 
countries that are learning English to use the correct form.

If anyone finds any of this inappropriate, you can email me at off-list at 
russell.s.teeter@kp.org  I don't want to have anyone spending extra time 
looking up my email.

Russell S. Teeter




>
>"James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
>Sent by: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>03/17/2002 12:31 AM
>Please respond to FEISTFANS-L
>
> 
>	 To:     <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
>	 cc: 
>	 Subject:        Re: chat with your fans
>
>
>    I think I still prefer the list, for one it makes it less time
>restrictive, since not all of us can be available when Ray is, nor
>are we going to sit in a chatroom 24/7 hoping he shows up.
>    Nor do we have the problems of Chat in general (crashes/boots
>for the most part are limited to a few missed posts, not a whole
>conversation).  Then there are the problems with flamers, hackers,
>crackers, and other annoyances that come with IRC and other chat
>systems.  Not everyone has a firewall.
>    We also don't have to deal with the interplay of our own
>personalities quite as much here.  Though some of us are notable in
>our personalities (I'm gonna be mean and cite Rip), it is probably a
>bad thing to have open season on each other on a chat room when some
>of us are dominant personalities in more open forums (I won't deny I
>am one of those).  Also since the only common thread between many of
>us is our love of Ray's works as has been shown by numerous other
>flamewars in the past.
>    The next problem is that some people still pay by the minute or
>hour for internet access.  Most of them will not want to pay that
>kind of money for this service.  It isn't fair to cheat them out of
>a forum because of that.
>    Finally I argue against chats because they always lead to
>problems with software conflicts.  Text E-mail doesn't.
>
>    BTW Some DuDe can you use capitalization, attempt proper
>punctuation, and use somewhat less run-on sentences.  Your post is
>difficult to read as it is.  (I think you spend to much time in
>Chatrooms as is, and it seems to be affecting your grammatical
>skills in a negative manner.)
>
>-James
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>>
>>hey every1
>>no doubt you all know the REF fan site called hall of worlds
>>there has been a discussion in the forum about establishing a
>>chatroom
>>related to the site it would be an IRC basted chatroom and could be
>>logged onto using an IRC client or a similar java applet on the
>>acual site
>>i was wondering if Mr Feist would consider coming to the chatroom
>>when it is established and talking to us and also i wans wondering
>>how many books do you plan to write in the midkemian reality before
>>you retire? i hope u never stop writing them
>>cya

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To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: chat with your fans
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*** EOOH ***
From: "MChaloner" <markchaloner@btinternet.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: chat with your fans
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 12:57:12 -0000
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>hey every1
>no doubt you all know the REF fan site called hall of worlds there has
>been a discussion in the forum about establishing a chatroom 
>related to the site
>it would be an IRC basted chatroom and could be logged onto using an IRC
>
>client or a similar java applet on the acual site
>i was wondering if Mr Feist would consider coming to the chatroom when
>it is 
>established and talking to us
>and also i wans wondering how many books do you plan to write in the 
>midkemian reality before you retire? i hope u never stop writing them
>cya
>

Hey every1??
Cya??
No punctuation or capital letters???
What the heck's happening to the English language? <shakes head>

Mark ;-)



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Subject: Re: 
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 06:52:30 -0800
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Jay" <res0ibjw@verizon.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: 
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 06:52:30 -0800
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I somewhat agree with Nevyn. I've come to the point of unsubscribing
as well, just because this mailing list seems excessively rude to
anyone not well known. Occasionally I wouldnt downloading a few
messages that are OT, but I know that for every OT message there is
going to be a mass of flames... cluttering my inbox more and taking up
more bandwith (Which seem to be the main arguments whenever an "OT
Flame War" starts up) While this hasn't quite been reason enough to
leave (I seem to be rare in my ability to skip past messages that dont
interest me or delete them) it has certainly kept me from replying on
a number of occasions... (I've been on the list for almost 2 years
now.. lurking for almost all of it)

Just sharing my opinions here... dont mind me :-)
>  ----- Original Message ----- 
>  From: Nevyn 
>  To: FEISTFANS-L 
>  Sent: Sunday, March 17, 2002 12:48 AM
>
>
>  This truly is sad.
>
>  If the list was kept to simply ONTOPIC RAY STUFF then their would be very few e-mails due to the fact that if someone asks a question that was asked 5 years ago they get flamed. 
>
>  I will no longer be subscribed to this list. It truly is sad. When I saw the webpage it said A EMAIL LIST FOR REF FANS TO FIND EACH OTHER. Truly. T'is unfortunate pricks like James Young have to have a smug and superior attitude and ruin it for all the younger fans who would like to talk with one another.
>
>  Did you ever notice the "Delete" key, which is placed under the "Insert" key, next to the "End" key under the "Home" key above the Arrow Pad on your keyboard, James?
>
>  Thanks,
>		 Nevyn
>  _______________________________________________________________________
>
>  Not every love, but only that which has a noble purpose, is noble and worthy of praise.
>   
>  - Plato (c. 428-348 BC)
>  _______________________________________________________________________

1,,
Summary-line: 17-Mar            cries@yifan.net  [55] #Re: chat with your fans
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 10:51:58 -0700
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: chat with your fans
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Some DuDe wrote:
> 
> i dont have time to waste on punctuation and you are the first person to
> mind my punctuation and comment on it

Then I'll be the second.

Please take his request into consideration :)

Craig J. Ries



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Summary-line: 17-Mar      raymond@bittersea.com  [71] #Re: chat with your fans
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 09:55:13 -0800
Subject: Re: chat with your fans
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Saturday, March 16, 2002, at 11:31 PM, Some DuDe wrote:

>
>
>
> hey every1
> no doubt you all know the REF fan site called hall of worlds
> there has been a discussion in the forum about establishing a chatroom 
> related to the site
> it would be an IRC basted chatroom and could be logged onto using an 
> IRC client or a similar java applet on the acual site
> i was wondering if Mr Feist would consider coming to the chatroom when 
> it is established and talking to us
> and also i wans wondering how many books do you plan to write in the 
> midkemian reality before you retire? i hope u never stop writing them
>
>

Sorry, I"m not inclined to chats.

I find them pretty tedious.  Much prefer boards and lists.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



1,,
Summary-line: 17-Mar        bretr@alliances.org  [73] #Re: chat with your fans
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Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 13:10:51 -0600
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From: Bret Robideaux <bretr@alliances.org>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 13:10:51 -0600
From: Bret Robideaux <bretr@alliances.org>
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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: chat with your fans
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> i dont have time to waste on punctuation and you are the first person to 
> mind my punctuation and comment on it

We just had this conversation a few weeks ago. For most of us, the topic 
still fresh in minds. For those who are new, allow me to repeat it.

The reasoning runs as follows. There are many people on this list for 
whom English is not their primary language and some may even have a 
difficult time reading it. And, since English is the language of this 
list, they are forced to learn or be excluded. As a courtesy to them, to 
help them better understand your posts, it is requested that you use 
proper (as well as you are able). That includes spelling, grammar, 
punctuation and capitalization.

No one is going to be martyred for the their (in)ability, but you will 
be utterly scorched for laziness here. In short, make the time to 
punctuate and capitalize. It's only a little more effort for you, and 
saves some people quite a bit of effort.

Besides, I would think the "church theory" applies to this list. Our 
posts are being read by (formerly one, now) two mass published authors. 
Many of us were taught to wear our best when we went to church because 
we were going to see God. By the same token, one would want to write 
their best so as to make a good impression. But then again, I'm old, so 
what do I know.

Bret (don't carry the analogy too far, I'm not suggesting that Ray and 
Joel are gods ... *grin*)



1,,
Summary-line: 17-Mar            dershem@cox.net  [88] #Re: chat with your fans
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Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 11:24:38 -0800
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 11:24:38 -0800
From: Carl Dershem <dershem@cox.net>
Organization: Project Selene
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: chat with your fans
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Bret Robideaux wrote:
> 
> > i dont have time to waste on punctuation and you are the first person to
> > mind my punctuation and comment on it
> 
> We just had this conversation a few weeks ago. For most of us, the topic
> still fresh in minds. For those who are new, allow me to repeat it.
> 
> The reasoning runs as follows. There are many people on this list for
> whom English is not their primary language and some may even have a
> difficult time reading it. And, since English is the language of this
> list, they are forced to learn or be excluded. As a courtesy to them, to
> help them better understand your posts, it is requested that you use
> proper (as well as you are able). That includes spelling, grammar,
> punctuation and capitalization.
> 
> No one is going to be martyred for the their (in)ability, but you will
> be utterly scorched for laziness here. In short, make the time to
> punctuate and capitalize. It's only a little more effort for you, and
> saves some people quite a bit of effort.
> 
> Besides, I would think the "church theory" applies to this list. Our
> posts are being read by (formerly one, now) two mass published authors.
> Many of us were taught to wear our best when we went to church because
> we were going to see God. By the same token, one would want to write
> their best so as to make a good impression. But then again, I'm old, so
> what do I know.
> 
> Bret (don't carry the analogy too far, I'm not suggesting that Ray and
> Joel are gods ... *grin*)

I don't know about the "church theory" but will add that the Internet is
all about communication - if you intentionally don't do what you can to
communicate clearly, or to blur and obfuscate, what does that say about
you?  Be clear, be thoughtful, and try to put forth the effort you'd
desire from others.  While we won't (usually) pick on you for the
occasional mistake, dedication to laziness and mediocrity will get you
nowhere.

cd
-- 
Death to all Absolutists!



1,,
Summary-line: 17-Mar           jmatlock@cox.net  [57] #Our dark side...
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Subject: Our dark side...
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 11:45:09 -0800
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James & Celeste Matlock" <jmatlock@cox.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Our dark side...
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 11:45:09 -0800
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Well Joel,

Now you've seen our dark side.  I hope it doesn't keep
you from hanging out with us a while longer. :)

Cheers,

Jim



1,,
Summary-line: 17-Mar          joelr@metzada.com  [74] #Re: Our dark side...
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From: Joel Rosenberg <joelr@metzada.com>
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*** EOOH ***
From: Joel Rosenberg <joelr@metzada.com>
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Our dark side...
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 14:17:53 -0600
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On Sunday 17 March 2002 01:45 pm, you wrote:
> Well Joel,
>
> Now you've seen our dark side.  I hope it doesn't keep
> you from hanging out with us a while longer. :)
>
> Cheers,
>
> Jim

Hey, it's not my house; and filters are my friends.   If somebody on a 
mailing list wants to, say, discuss the sexual habits of SoCal garden slugs, 
and is kind enough to identify that in the Subject: line, I can easily and 
quickly arrange to never see it.   Comes from setting spam filters -- a 
message to me with "Viagra" or "hot girl-on-girl action" in the Subject line 
will never be seen by me, for instance.

-- 
-------------------------------------
There's a widow in sleepy Chester
  Who weeps for her only son;
There's a grave on the Pabeng River,
  A grave that the Burmans shun,
And there's Subadar Prag Tewarri
  Who tells how the work was done.
-------------------------------------



1,,
Summary-line: 17-Mar        andrea@bloodaxe.com  [66] #Re: chat with your fans
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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Andrea J Chee <andrea@bloodaxe.com>
Subject: Re: chat with your fans
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 <3C94EA3B.6060409@alliances.org>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 20:28:15 +0000
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Andrea J Chee <andrea@bloodaxe.com>
Subject: Re: chat with your fans
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

In article <3C94EA3B.6060409@alliances.org>, Bret Robideaux
<bretr@alliances.org> writes
>
>No one is going to be martyred for the their (in)ability, but you will 
>be utterly scorched for laziness here. In short, make the time to 
>punctuate and capitalize. It's only a little more effort for you, and 
>saves some people quite a bit of effort.

Not to mention, the use of poor English on purpose shows a lack of
respect. A lazy poster is basically saying: "I can't be bothered to
spare the time to make the effort, and I don't care that hundreds of
people have to put in extra effort to read it instead. My time is more
important than yours."

- ANDREA

-- 
^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^
                  ANDROMEDA - Internet Goddess
<andrea@bloodaxe.com>                    http://www.bloodaxe.com/
Bloodaxe's History Links:   http://www.geocities.com/Athens/5055/
The Loony Bin Archive:               http://www.theloonies.co.uk/



1,,
Summary-line: 17-Mar           lds627@attbi.com  [52] #On Topic question for Joel and Ray
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From: LAR <lds627@attbi.com>
Subject: On Topic question for Joel and Ray
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 13:12:38 -0800
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: LAR <lds627@attbi.com>
Subject: On Topic question for Joel and Ray
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J and R:

Just out of curiosity, did the fact that both of you come from FRP 
backgrounds contribute to the synergy at all? I am aware the roleplaying 
days are probably long behind both of you,  but I also know from personal 
collaborations that being able to relate to my partner on a common creative 
ground has often led to the whole being greater than the sum of it's parts.

Larry



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Summary-line: 17-Mar          joelr@metzada.com  [72] #Re: On Topic question for Joel and Ray
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*** EOOH ***
From: Joel Rosenberg <joelr@metzada.com>
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: On Topic question for Joel and Ray
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 15:44:30 -0600
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On Sunday 17 March 2002 03:12 pm, you wrote:
> J and R:
>
> Just out of curiosity, did the fact that both of you come from FRP
> backgrounds contribute to the synergy at all? I am aware the roleplaying
> days are probably long behind both of you,  but I also know from personal
> collaborations that being able to relate to my partner on a common creative
> ground has often led to the whole being greater than the sum of it's parts.
>
> Larry

Ray has significant FRP game playing/design credentials, from the old 
Midkemia gaming days.  I don't.  I've only played in a few sessions, but have 
listened and watched carefully to a few more.  

-- 
-------------------------------------
There's a widow in sleepy Chester
  Who weeps for her only son;
There's a grave on the Pabeng River,
  A grave that the Burmans shun,
And there's Subadar Prag Tewarri
  Who tells how the work was done.
-------------------------------------



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From: "A Irving" <s355156@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: chat with your fans
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 09:35:38 +1000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "A Irving" <s355156@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: chat with your fans
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 09:35:38 +1000
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> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]
> On Saturday, March 16, 2002, at 11:31 PM, Some DuDe wrote:
> > hey every1
> > no doubt you all know the REF fan site called hall of worlds
> > there has been a discussion in the forum about establishing a chatroom
> > related to the site
> > it would be an IRC basted chatroom and could be logged onto using an
> > IRC client or a similar java applet on the acual site
> > i was wondering if Mr Feist would consider coming to the chatroom when
> > it is established and talking to us
> > and also i wans wondering how many books do you plan to write in the
> > midkemian reality before you retire? i hope u never stop writing them
> Sorry, I"m not inclined to chats.
> 
> I find them pretty tedious.  Much prefer boards and lists.
> 
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
Ray, Do you think once you are not as busy you will have time to visit,
possibly frequent, the Hallofworlds Ikonboard Forum? It has been around
a while and has quite a few members, not all are on the mailing list...
for various reasons. In regards to 'somedude', a lot of members take it
on themselves to invite people to the forum/chatroom etc, when they are
not associated with the staff. For those that are interested in the IRC
chatroom, the web-based chat is not up and running as of yet, but the
channel has been created, though not officially opened. At the moment
you can reach it at irc://irc.forestnet.org (irc.forestnet.org) in
#feist. It is very quiet since not really open yet, and the timezone
differences between people. The staff at HoW are considering regular
meeting times, though not much is planned as of yet. IF anyone wants
more information you are probably best to email
postmaster@hallofworlds.net ... I am not sure if Tjeerd will be happy
with me directing all enquiries towards him, but oh well.
CIAO,
     Aaron

http://www.hallofworlds.net/kerr/main.php
http://www.nightshadow.co.uk 



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Summary-line: 17-Mar      raymond@bittersea.com  [68] #Re: On Topic question for Joel and Ray
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 16:33:32 -0800
Subject: Re: On Topic question for Joel and Ray
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Sunday, March 17, 2002, at 01:12 PM, LAR wrote:

> J and R:
>
> Just out of curiosity, did the fact that both of you come from FRP 
> backgrounds contribute to the synergy at all? I am aware the 
> roleplaying days are probably long behind both of you,  but I also know 
> from personal collaborations that being able to relate to my partner on 
> a common creative ground has often led to the whole being greater than 
> the sum of it's parts.
>
> Larry
>
>
>
>

 From my point of view, no.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Summary-line: 17-Mar      raymond@bittersea.com  [81] #Re: chat with your fans
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 16:34:43 -0800
Subject: Re: chat with your fans
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Sunday, March 17, 2002, at 03:35 PM, A Irving wrote:

>> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]
>> On Saturday, March 16, 2002, at 11:31 PM, Some DuDe wrote:
>>> hey every1
>>> no doubt you all know the REF fan site called hall of worlds
>>> there has been a discussion in the forum about establishing a
> chatroom
>>> related to the site
>>> it would be an IRC basted chatroom and could be logged onto using an
>>> IRC client or a similar java applet on the acual site
>>> i was wondering if Mr Feist would consider coming to the chatroom
> when
>>> it is established and talking to us
>>> and also i wans wondering how many books do you plan to write in the
>>> midkemian reality before you retire? i hope u never stop writing
> them
>> Sorry, I"m not inclined to chats.
>>
>> I find them pretty tedious.  Much prefer boards and lists.
>>
>> Best, R.E.F.
>> ----
> Ray, Do you think once you are not as busy you will have time to visit,
> possibly frequent, the Hallofworlds Ikonboard Forum? I

Almost certainly no.

When I'm less busy, I will spend more time with my kids, my girlfriend, 
my social acquaintances, traveling, etc.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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From: "Kevin" <kevykev@sbcglobal.net>
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Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 19:24:43 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time)
From: "Kevin" <kevykev@sbcglobal.net>
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"Basted Chatroom"?? A virtual sauna for turkeys perhaps? ;-)
-------Original Message-------
>
>From: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Date: Saturday, March 16, 2002 11:33:50 PM
>To: FEISTFANS-L
>Subject: chat with your fans
>
>
>
>hey every1
>no doubt you all know the REF fan site called hall of worlds
>there has been a discussion in the forum about establishing a chatroom 
>related to the site
>it would be an IRC basted chatroom and could be logged onto using an IRC 
>client or a similar java applet on the acual site
>i was wondering if Mr Feist would consider coming to the chatroom when it is
>
>established and talking to us
>and also i wans wondering how many books do you plan to write in the 
>midkemian reality before you retire? i hope u never stop writing them
>cya
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.
>


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From: "Rachel Unwin" <jeddasw@hotmail.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: chat with your fans
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 20:45:53 +1100
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From: "Rachel Unwin" <jeddasw@hotmail.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: chat with your fans
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 20:45:53 +1100
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I've only been with the list for a couple of weeks and I have never
seen a more critical bunch of people....is not everyone entitled to
their opinion? Shouldn't people be allowed to write the way they want
to without everyone jumping down their throats? Whatever happened to
being nice just for the sake of it?

Rachel  
  
----- Original Message -----
>From: Kevin
>Sent: Monday, March 18, 2002 2:32 PM
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: Re: chat with your fans
>  
>
>"Basted Chatroom"?? A virtual sauna for turkeys perhaps? ;-)
>>-------Original Message-------
>>
>>From: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>>Date: Saturday, March 16, 2002 11:33:50 PM
>>To: FEISTFANS-L
>>Subject: chat with your fans
>>
>>
>>
>>hey every1
>>no doubt you all know the REF fan site called hall of worlds
>>there has been a discussion in the forum about establishing a chatroom
>>related to the site
>>it would be an IRC basted chatroom and could be logged onto using an IRC
>>client or a similar java applet on the acual site
>>i was wondering if Mr Feist would consider coming to the chatroom when it is
>>
>>established and talking to us
>>and also i wans wondering how many books do you plan to write in the
>>midkemian reality before you retire? i hope u never stop writing them
>>cya
>>
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.Get more from the Web.  FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com

1,,
Summary-line: 18-Mar  ard.williamson@windriver.  [73] #SoCal garden slugs ... was Re: Our dark side...
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From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: SoCal garden slugs ... was Re: Our dark side...
In-Reply-To: <200203171415.38605@ellegon.com>
References: <NDBBKHPIGLBALHEIODGDKEINCLAA.jmatlock@cox.net>
 <NDBBKHPIGLBALHEIODGDKEINCLAA.jmatlock@cox.net>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 09:46:11 +0000
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: SoCal garden slugs ... was Re: Our dark side...
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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At 08:17 PM 3/17/02, Joel Rosenberg wrote:
>Hey, it's not my house; and filters are my friends.   If somebody on a 
>mailing list wants to, say, discuss the sexual habits of SoCal garden slugs, 
>and is kind enough to identify that in the Subject: line, 

http://manandmollusc.net/advanced_introduction/advanced_intro_printable.html

about 3/5ths of the way down, look for the heading "reproduction" under 
GASTROPODA: Pulmonata (Stylommatophora), which covers Limax (the common
garden slug).

An elaborate courtship ritual, followed by internal fertilization and
external birth.  Note that most Limax are hermaphrodites; some types go 
through definite life stages as being male, then female, other types
are both at the same time (mutual fertilization results from the 
courtship)...

Weird.

I'll have to work that into the sequel*.

rip
-- 
* No, this is not a non-sequitur.  Bret and a few others should understand
why not. 



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Summary-line: 18-Mar  ard.williamson@windriver.  [71] #Re: chat with your fans
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Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 10:24:10 +0000
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: chat with your fans
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At 09:45 AM 3/18/02, Rachel Unwin wrote:
>I've only been with the list for a couple of weeks and I have never seen a more critical bunch of people....is not everyone entitled to their opinion? 

Um, yes, y'all are entitled to my opinion.  ;->

>Shouldn't people be allowed to write the way they want to without everyone jumping down their throats? 

Um. No.  Note the lack of a smiley.

As has been brought up a couple times in the current round of discussions,
a significant portion of this list is made up of non-native English speakers.
You do them a disservice, if "u tIp lIke THiS".  A) Makes it harder to understand
(If you aren't here to communicate, why are you here?) B) Someone might think
that the slang and incorrect capitalization or punctuation is the norm or is 
"correct written English".  And then use those constructions in a term paper 
for their English classes, a CV (resume'), or worse a business document.  
And C) you get people degenerating into name calling, swearing and general 
unpleasantness because they think it is cute.  cf: Nevyn's use of the word
'prick' when addressing James.

>Whatever happened to being nice just for the sake of it?

Because there are too many children (and adults) who take advantage of that.

rip



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Summary-line: 18-Mar  ard.williamson@windriver.  [55] #Re: chat with your fans
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From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: chat with your fans
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 10:26:19 +0000
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: chat with your fans
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At 08:31 AM 3/17/02, James Young wrote:
>...Though some of us are notable in
>our personalities (I'm gonna be mean and cite Rip), ...

who flashes a quick grin, but remains silent and otherwise
composed.

rip



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*** EOOH ***
From: "Donal K. Fellows" <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: chat with your fans
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 10:34:23 +0000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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"Rachel Unwin" <jeddasw@hotmail.com>
> I've only been with the list for a couple of weeks and I have never
> seen a more critical bunch of people....

You don't get around much, do you?  <eg>

> is not everyone entitled to their opinion?

Sure (for what it's worth, which is very little in reality[*]), but
doesn't mean that they should be encouraged to voice their opinions on
everything under the sun *here*.  We don't want discussions on gun
ownership, (non-Midkemian and non-Kelewanese) religion, abortion, or
computers (other than as relating to Midkemian-related games) because
everyone seems to have their own entrenched opinion (I'm no different,
BTW) and can't resist getting the last word in.  So getting the
*first* word in on those topics is banned.  And because threads tend
to take on a life of their own, starting of off-topic subjects is also
banned.

There are plenty of places to discuss such things.  But not here.
Here is where anyone can come to discuss matters relating to REF;
that's its purpose.  The rules exist to help this place stay what it
is intended to be.

> Shouldn't people be allowed to write the way they want to without
> everyone jumping down their throats?

Ideally, yes.  However, it is a matter of common courtesy towards
people whose first language is not English (and this includes a fair
proportion of the list's readership) to try to make messages easy to
read.  Virtually anything that's worth saying is worth saying in a way
that is easily readable.  And doing this has the benefit of making
life easier for native English speakers as well; I get a stupendous
amount of mail every day, and I only spend a long time on a message
(i.e. enough time to actually get the meaning) if it is well-written.

On the other hand, it is my experience of this list (and elsewhere)
that messages (in English) written by people whose first language is
something else, tend to be better written than those by sloppy
English-speaking people who should know better.  Sure, they might have
spelling and grammar errors, but they usually make the effort and are
due respect and consideration for that.  Cutting slack towards the
indolent and aggressively incomprehensible is another story...

> Whatever happened to being nice just for the sake of it?

I try to be nice the whole time.  Sometimes the mask slips...  *shrugs*

(By the way, your message asking these questions was one of the ones
worth reading and replying to.  Compare it with the messages you're
talking about and you can see why.)

Donal.
[* A quote, whose original author I do not recall at this time, which
   expresses this point very clearly is: "Opinions are like assholes,
   everyone has one."  It's definitely the truth. ]
-- 
Donal K. Fellows, Department of Computer Science, University of Manchester, UK.
(work) fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk     Tel: +44-161-275-6137  (preferred email addr.)
(home) donal@ugglan.demon.co.uk  Tel: +44-1274-401017   Mobile: +44-7957-298955
http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~fellowsd/  (Don't quote my .sig; I've seen it before!)



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From: "Donal K. Fellows" <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
In-reply-to: <ff.150fdca5.29c5859a@aol.com> (Valheru22@aol.com)
Subject: Re: [OT] Re: Resident Evil
References:  <ff.150fdca5.29c5859a@aol.com>
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Donal K. Fellows" <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: [OT] Re: Resident Evil
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 11:23:58 +0000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Valheru22@aol.com
> Gimme one good reason this isn;t appropriot and that friggen gun
> thing awhile back was!

The gun discussion wasn't appropriate either.  Have a nice day.

Donal.
-- 
Donal K. Fellows, Department of Computer Science, University of Manchester, UK.
(work) fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk     Tel: +44-161-275-6137  (preferred email addr.)
(home) donal@ugglan.demon.co.uk  Tel: +44-1274-401017   Mobile: +44-7957-298955
http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~fellowsd/  (Don't quote my .sig; I've seen it before!)



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 10:42:55 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time)
From: "Kevin" <kevykev@sbcglobal.net>
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To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
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I'm sorry, my intention was to throw out a silly, flippant comment to
lighten the tension
-------Original Message-------
>
>From: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Date: Monday, March 18, 2002 01:48:50 AM
>To: FEISTFANS-L
>Subject: Re: chat with your fans
>
>I've only been with the list for a couple of weeks and I have never seen a
>more critical bunch of people....is not everyone entitled to their opinion?
>Shouldn't people be allowed to write the way they want to without everyone
>jumping down their throats? Whatever happened to being nice just for the
>sake of it?
>
>Rachel 
>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: Kevin
>>Sent: Monday, March 18, 2002 2:32 PM
>>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>>Subject: Re: chat with your fans
>>
>>
>>"Basted Chatroom"?? A virtual sauna for turkeys perhaps? ;-)

1,,
Summary-line: 19-Mar        pilgrim@inco.com.lb  [84] #Re: SoCal garden slugs...
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Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 00:18:34 +0200
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Subject: Re: SoCal garden slugs...
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	 <NDBBKHPIGLBALHEIODGDKEINCLAA.jmatlock@cox.net> <5.1.0.14.2.20020318092011.00f19290@mail.swindon.wrsec.fr>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 00:18:34 +0200
From: Ziad El-Hajj <pilgrim@inco.com.lb>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: SoCal garden slugs...
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Richard Williamson wrote:

> http://manandmollusc.net/advanced_introduction/advanced_intro_printable.html
>
> about 3/5ths of the way down, look for the heading "reproduction" under
> GASTROPODA: Pulmonata (Stylommatophora), which covers Limax (the common garden
> slug).
>
> An elaborate courtship ritual, followed by internal fertilization and external
> birth.  Note that most Limax are hermaphrodites; some types go through definite
> life stages as being male, then female, other types are both at the same time
> (mutual fertilization results from the courtship)...
>
> Weird.
>
> I'll have to work that into the sequel*.
>
> rip
> --
> * No, this is not a non-sequitur.  Bret and a few others should understand why
> not.

<Shrug>

I have to admit that, as with most of your posts, I have no idea what you're
talking about.

<On a brighter tone>

But after almost 4 years on the list, I have to admit that your posts never get
dull!

<G>

Ziad
(who has taken a course on invertebrate zoology, and remembers more about
gastropod courtship behavior than he'd wish)

"I'm a man. I know things. I do tricks."



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Summary-line: 19-Mar     amills1@bigpond.net.au  [89] #OT: I'm back (for now)
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References: <20020226161338.21108.qmail@web10406.mail.yahoo.com> <002401c1bee6$ae712250$c7df0ccb@vaio>
Subject: OT: I'm back (for now)
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Allan Mills" <amills1@bigpond.net.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: OT: I'm back (for now)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 09:43:07 +1100
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

 Well I'm back from my trip to the USA. Thankfully I didn't have any major
problems like lost luggage or missing flights/buses. I was a bit surprised
the first time I saw a couple of soldiers in one of the airports armed with
M16s.

 Thoughts and notes about my trip :

 Sales taxes caught me by surprise since they are applied when you purchase
the item and usually aren't included as part of the price. I dimly recalled
hearing something about them once so I didn't get into an argument with the
sales clerk. Is this just a marketing ploy or is there a legitimate reason
why they don't apply tax beforehand? It's illegal to do that kind of thing
in Australia.

 The cost of food had me very surprised. I'm not just talking about the food
in theme parks but also places like IHOP and Denny's. I was paying much, if
not more, in US dollars then I'd pay for the same in Australian dollars down
here. Anyone have any ideas why this is so? I will note though, most of the
meals are very large. Normally I only had to have either lunch or dinner,
not both.

 One of the bus drivers I had was telling the passengers about how
Disneyland usually starts making profits for the day after only 1/2 hour
after opening. However someone else told me the government had to bail
Disneyland out of bankruptcy a decade or more ago. Any idea which is
correct?

 When going on certain rides in the theme parks they often have noticeboards
or announcements saying what you aren't allowed to do. The first weird one I
heard was when they said no using 2-way radios, I actually saw someone using
one at another park so that's fair enough I suppose. The other one that
caught my attention was when they said not to use laser pointers. This was
even a warning on a big wooden rollercoaster at Knott's Berry farm. I can't
imagine why you'd want to use one on a rollercoaster.

 Anyway, I'll be spending the remaining two weeks of my holiday with my
parents so I'll be back to this list full time after Easter.

 Allan





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From: Reidar Høyem <reidar.hoyem@c2i.net>
To: "Feistlist" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Maps
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 00:04:58 +0100
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*** EOOH ***
From: Reidar Høyem <reidar.hoyem@c2i.net>
To: "Feistlist" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Maps
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 00:04:58 +0100
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I'm looking for some detailed maps of Midkemia, or the Kingdom.
High detail would be nice, but I’m not picky!

Thanks for any help!

PS! At the risk of making a complete fool out of my self, did I hear talk of
a book with maps and so on a while back?


Regards, Reidar
Oslo, Norway



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Subject: Re: OT: I'm back (for now)
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From: JEEPMONSTER69@aol.com
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 18:15:33 EST
Subject: Re: OT: I'm back (for now)
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In a message dated 3/18/2002 5:51:15 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
amills1@bigpond.net.au writes:


> Sales taxes caught me by surprise since they are applied when you purchase
> the item and usually aren't included as part of the price. I dimly recalled
> hearing something about them once so I didn't get into an argument with the
> sales clerk. Is this just a marketing ploy or is there a legitimate reason
> why they don't apply tax beforehand? It's illegal to do that kind of thing
> in Australia.
> 
> The cost of food had me very surprised. I'm not just talking about the food
> in theme parks but also places like IHOP and Denny's. I was paying much, if
> not more, in US dollars then I'd pay for the same in Australian dollars down
> here. Anyone have any ideas why this is so? I will note though, most of the
> meals are very large. Normally I only had to have either lunch or dinner,
> not both.
> 
> One of the bus drivers I had was telling the passengers about how
> Disneyland usually starts making profits for the day after only 1/2 hour
> after opening. However someone else told me the government had to bail
> Disneyland out of bankruptcy a decade or more ago. Any idea which is
> correct?
> 
> When going on certain rides in the theme parks they often have noticeboards
> or announcements saying what you aren't allowed to do. The first weird one I
> heard was when they said no using 2-way radios, I actually saw someone using
> one at another park so that's fair enough I suppose. The other one that
> caught my attention was when they said not to use laser pointers. This was
> even a warning on a big wooden rollercoaster at Knott's Berry farm. I can't
> imagine why you'd want to use one on a rollercoaster.
> 
> Anyway, I'll be spending the remaining two weeks of my holiday with my
> parents so I'll be back to this list full time after Easter.
> 
> Allan
> 

OK, here are your answers:
1. Yes, it is a marketing ploy.  By not adding taxes, it makes the price seem 
lower than it actually is.

2.U.S. Dollars are different in value than Australian dollars, so that may be 
the reason for a greater cost. That, or they charge more because they can.  
Those places seem damn cheap to me, anyhow.

3. That, I do not know.

4.Same as above- we Americans are a nation of lawbreakers, I guess (if we 
werent, we'd be singing God Save the Queen rather than God Bless America.

                                     Peace,
                                           Matt
"Lets Roll."- Todd Beamer
USA, Muthafacko!

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References: <MCBBIGAFFKKBKOIEOJBHEELMCAAA.reidar.hoyem@c2i.net>
Subject: Re: Maps
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 23:30:25 -0000
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*** EOOH ***
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: "Damian Dyer" <Levic@tsurani.freeuk.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Maps
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 23:30:25 -0000
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----- Original Message -----
>From: "Reidar Høyem" <reidar.hoyem@c2i.net>
>To: "Feistlist (FEISTFANS-L)" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
>Sent: Monday, March 18, 2002 11:04 PM
>Subject: Maps
>
>
>I'm looking for some detailed maps of Midkemia, or the Kingdom.
>High detail would be nice, but I'm not picky!

You may wish to check out www.elvandar.com

>
>Thanks for any help!
>
>PS! At the risk of making a complete fool out of my self, did I hear talk of
>a book with maps and so on a while back?

It's a future project that may happen when Ray has a little more time.

Damian




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Summary-line: 19-Mar         wootten@xtra.co.nz  [62] #OT: Attack of the Clones.
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From: "Julie Wootten" <wootten@xtra.co.nz>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
References: <20020226161338.21108.qmail@web10406.mail.yahoo.com> <002401c1bee6$ae712250$c7df0ccb@vaio> <00f101c1cece$46620ba0$2f01a8c0@allans>
Subject: OT: Attack of the Clones.
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 17:05:43 +1200
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Julie Wootten" <wootten@xtra.co.nz>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: OT: Attack of the Clones.
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 17:05:43 +1200
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Okay... I gotta be nuts for introducing an OT topic so soon after
the last few entertaining days, but I know most of you are SW 
fans, and I just feasted my eyes on the first review I've seen of 
Attack Of The Clones.

So even though I'm still stinging from the 7 or 8 people that
corrected my last post (sorry folks, I should have done my
homework, and I've reread the FAQ so I don't look quite
so stupid again - on that particular matter), without further ado:

http://www.aintitcoolnews.com/display.cgi?id=11796

Julie. <-- Attach flames here, not to the list.





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Summary-line: 19-Mar  somedude1_2000@hotmail.co  [70] #APOLOGY FOR - chat with your fans
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From: "Some DuDe" <somedude1_2000@hotmail.com>
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Subject: APOLOGY FOR - chat with your fans
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 18:56:10 +1100
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From: "Some DuDe" <somedude1_2000@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: APOLOGY FOR - chat with your fans
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 18:56:10 +1100
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Dear List,
          I wish to inform the list that I apologize for my lack of 
punctuation in my last message and i especially with to apologies to Mr. 
Feist. The last thing I wanted to do was give a bad impression to him for he 
is the father of all of this. As you may well have realized I am not of the 
advanced age as some of you, only being 15 and only starting to read Mr. 
Feist's books several months ago. Although since then I have managed to 
finish the entire Serpantwar Saga and I am up to A Darkness At Sethanon at 
present. I was not used to or expecting that which I can only call criticism 
of my message as this is the first place ever I have encountered it. I feel 
that in all this my originally intended message became overshadowed by the 
lists desire to criticize. So I would like to say again, more correct this 
time, is it in Mr. Feist's interests to be involved it some other form of 
communicating with his fans? Or if not will any of his fans be willing to 
participate just to converse? Thank you for your time and I humbly apologize 
for anything I previously stated that may have offended anyone.

Regards,
Mr. Greg Bulloch

P.S. I am of English Speaking background for those who thought otherwise.



_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com



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From: "Rachel Unwin" <jeddasw@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re: APOLOGY FOR - chat with your fans
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good on you, somedude.  I would be happy to converse in other places
as well as this even though Ray is not interested....am glad you love
Raymond's books; new readers at your tender age are only to his credit
as a brilliant writer.

Rachel  
  
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Some DuDe
>Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 7:11 PM
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: APOLOGY FOR - chat with your fans
>  
>Dear List,
>	   I wish to inform the list that I apologize for my lack of
>punctuation in my last message and i especially with to apologies to Mr.
>Feist. The last thing I wanted to do was give a bad impression to him for he
>is the father of all of this. As you may well have realized I am not of the
>advanced age as some of you, only being 15 and only starting to read Mr.
>Feist's books several months ago. Although since then I have managed to
>finish the entire Serpantwar Saga and I am up to A Darkness At Sethanon at
>present. I was not used to or expecting that which I can only call criticism
>of my message as this is the first place ever I have encountered it. I feel
>that in all this my originally intended message became overshadowed by the
>lists desire to criticize. So I would like to say again, more correct this
>time, is it in Mr. Feist's interests to be involved it some other form of
>communicating with his fans? Or if not will any of his fans be willing to
>participate just to converse? Thank you for your time and I humbly apologize
>for anything I previously stated that may have offended anyone.
>
>Regards,
>Mr. Greg Bulloch
>
>P.S. I am of English Speaking background for those who thought otherwise.
>
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.comGet more from the Web.  FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com

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Summary-line: 19-Mar  ard.williamson@windriver.  [84] #Re: SoCal garden slugs...
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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: SoCal garden slugs...
In-Reply-To: <3C9667BA.9B2E733C@inco.com.lb>
References: <NDBBKHPIGLBALHEIODGDKEINCLAA.jmatlock@cox.net>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 11:23:22 +0000
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: SoCal garden slugs...
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

At 10:18 PM 3/18/02, Ziad El-Hajj wrote:
>> about 3/5ths of the way down, look for the heading "reproduction" under
>> GASTROPODA: Pulmonata (Stylommatophora), which covers Limax (the common garden
>> slug).
><Shrug>
>
>I have to admit that, as with most of your posts, I have no idea what you're
>talking about.

*nods* My wife is my best friend, we've been together for over ten years
now, and she /still/ says that, too.

><On a brighter tone>
>
>But after almost 4 years on the list, I have to admit that your posts never get
>dull!

Well, I should hope not.  Dull is boring.  

See, Mr. Rosenberg made a throw-away comment about Southern California
garden slugs.   And I'm never one to waste a good opportunity like that.
Throw-away comments lead to the wildest tangents that usually don't 
offend (unless the comment itself was, in and of itself, offensive), are
rife with possibilities of bizarre humor, etc.

By the way, there was an article in New Scientist about a family in 
Australia (ex-pat Britons, I think), who used slugs from their garden
there to keep the mold and mildew down in their shower...slugs eat
molds and mildews.  I'm trying to find that reference, now.

Sleep well, kids ;->

rip

rip



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Summary-line: 19-Mar  ard.williamson@windriver.  [69] #Re: SoCal garden slugs...
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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: SoCal garden slugs...
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References: <3C9667BA.9B2E733C@inco.com.lb>
 <NDBBKHPIGLBALHEIODGDKEINCLAA.jmatlock@cox.net>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 14:09:19 +0000
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: SoCal garden slugs...
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

At 11:23 AM 3/19/02, Richard Williamson wrote:
>molds and mildews.  I'm trying to find that reference, now.

Sorry about this, but you need a login for the archive.
If you have a normal postal subscription to New Scientist,
you can get to this. 

http://archive.newscientist.com/archive.jsp?id=22494600

If your local library's periodical section has New Scientist,
then here is the details:

Author:      Stephanie Pain 
Periodical:  New Scientist magazine, 
Reference:   vol 167 issue 2249, 29/07/2000, page 34

I'll go away now.

rip



1,,
Summary-line: 19-Mar          joelr@metzada.com  [98] #Re: APOLOGY FOR - chat with your fans
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*** EOOH ***
From: Joel Rosenberg <joelr@metzada.com>
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: APOLOGY FOR - chat with your fans
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 08:26:55 -0600
X-Moose: once bit my sister
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On Tuesday 19 March 2002 01:56 am, you wrote:
> Dear List,
>           I wish to inform the list that I apologize for my lack of
> punctuation in my last message and i especially with to apologies to Mr.
> Feist. The last thing I wanted to do was give a bad impression to him for
> he is the father of all of this. As you may well have realized I am not of
> the advanced age as some of you, only being 15 and only starting to read
> Mr. Feist's books several months ago. Although since then I have managed to
> finish the entire Serpantwar Saga and I am up to A Darkness At Sethanon at
> present. I was not used to or expecting that which I can only call
> criticism of my message as this is the first place ever I have encountered
> it. I feel that in all this my originally intended message became
> overshadowed by the lists desire to criticize. So I would like to say
> again, more correct this time, is it in Mr. Feist's interests to be
> involved it some other form of communicating with his fans? Or if not will
> any of his fans be willing to participate just to converse? Thank you for
> your time and I humbly apologize for anything I previously stated that may
> have offended anyone.
>
> Regards,
> Mr. Greg Bulloch
>
> P.S. I am of English Speaking background for those who thought otherwise.
>

Well, I don't speak for Ray, but I will note that he participates in this 
mailing list, as well as attending some conventions, so it's not like he's 
inaccessible to his fans.  IRC is, apparently, not his cup of tea.   

More generally, some folks like online chatting, some do, and others change 
their minds about it, from time to time.  I've got several IRC clients on my 
machine, and have only brought one of them up once, when I needed a bit of 
tech support, and got an email from somebody who was on IRC and was willing 
to walk me through a problem.  Otherwise, speaking for me, it's not my thing, 
either.  ("Not my thing" <> "a bad thing that only a fool would do.")

Instant messaging, on the other hand, I do use every day -- but not to chat 
with fans; it's how I keep in touch with my wife at work, and a few friends 
and other family members, on a day-to-day basis.  



-------------------------------------
There's a widow in sleepy Chester
  Who weeps for her only son;
There's a grave on the Pabeng River,
  A grave that the Burmans shun,
And there's Subadar Prag Tewarri
  Who tells how the work was done.
-------------------------------------



1,,
Summary-line: 19-Mar      xiahoudun13@yahoo.com  [58] #[OT] Re: Resident Evil 
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From: Dun Xiahou <xiahoudun13@yahoo.com>
Subject: [OT] Re: Resident Evil 
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 07:03:28 -0800 (PST)
From: Dun Xiahou <xiahoudun13@yahoo.com>
Subject: [OT] Re: Resident Evil 
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I liked the movie, Resident Evil.  I thought it was
rather well done, and it scared me out of my shoes.

I don't appreciate anything so unserious as a horror
flick to be compared to September 11, and I am rather
offended that you would do such a thing.  That's like
taking Nightmare on Elmstreet and saying "It's just
like being in the Holocaust." It belittles a real and
horrible event that we should all remember and keep
with us as a reminder of the evils in this world and
to never turn a blind eye to them or they may come
back to haunt us.

- Xiahou Dun

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/



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Subject: Re: I'm back (for now)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 07:08:19 -0800
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Matt Stringer" <stringer@kfalls.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: I'm back (for now)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 07:08:19 -0800
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Allan Mills" <amills1@bigpond.net.au>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Monday, March 18, 2002 2:43 PM
Subject: OT: I'm back (for now)


> ...
>  The cost of food had me very surprised. I'm not just talking about the food
> in theme parks but also places like IHOP and Denny's. I was paying much, if
> not more, in US dollars then I'd pay for the same in Australian dollars down
> here. Anyone have any ideas why this is so? I will note though, most of the
> meals are very large. Normally I only had to have either lunch or dinner,
> not both.
>
>  ...
>  Allan
>
>
Allan:

My wife and I noticed the same thing (from the other side) when we
honeymooned in Australia about a year ago.  I think the increased portions
are to justify the inflated costs.  It seems to me the prices have been
increasing due wage hikes (how much have food prices gone up in the last 10
years?).

Matt Stringer




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To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
References: <MCBBIGAFFKKBKOIEOJBHEELMCAAA.reidar.hoyem@c2i.net> <000901c1ced4$e1c75450$030a0a01@Home.local>
Subject: Re: Maps
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 16:05:32 -0000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Justin" <justin.carew@ntlworld.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Maps
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 16:05:32 -0000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I saw a book called the Atlas of
Midkemia at amozan. Its not released and
I don't know when it will be.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Damian Dyer" <Levic@tsurani.freeuk.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Monday, March 18, 2002 11:30 PM
Subject: Re: Maps


|
| ----- Original Message -----
| From: "Reidar Høyem" <reidar.hoyem@c2i.net>
| To: "Feistlist (FEISTFANS-L)" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
| Sent: Monday, March 18, 2002 11:04 PM
| Subject: Maps
|
|
| I'm looking for some detailed maps of Midkemia, or the Kingdom.
| High detail would be nice, but I'm not picky!
|
| You may wish to check out www.elvandar.com
|
|
| Thanks for any help!
|
| PS! At the risk of making a complete fool out of my self, did I hear talk of
| a book with maps and so on a while back?
|
| It's a future project that may happen when Ray has a little more time.
|
| Damian
|
|
|



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From: "MChaloner" <markchaloner@btinternet.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: APOLOGY FOR - chat with your fans
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 18:24:46 -0000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "MChaloner" <markchaloner@btinternet.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: APOLOGY FOR - chat with your fans
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 18:24:46 -0000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

>Dear List,
>	   I wish to inform the list that I apologize for my lack of 
>punctuation in my last message and i especially with to apologies to Mr.
>
>Feist. The last thing I wanted to do was give a bad impression to him
>for he 
>is the father of all of this. As you may well have realized I am not of
>the 
>advanced age as some of you, only being 15 and only starting to read Mr.
>
>Feist's books several months ago. Although since then I have managed to 
>finish the entire Serpantwar Saga and I am up to A Darkness At Sethanon
>at 
>present. I was not used to or expecting that which I can only call
>criticism 
>of my message as this is the first place ever I have encountered it. I
>feel 
>that in all this my originally intended message became overshadowed by
>the 
>lists desire to criticize. So I would like to say again, more correct
>this 
>time, is it in Mr. Feist's interests to be involved it some other form
>of 
>communicating with his fans? Or if not will any of his fans be willing
>to 
>participate just to converse? Thank you for your time and I humbly
>apologize 
>for anything I previously stated that may have offended anyone.
>Regards,
>Mr. Greg Bulloch
>P.S. I am of English Speaking background for those who thought
>otherwise.
>

Honestly SomeDude, there's no need to go OTT <grins>
We're just asking for plain & simple English - but correct English.
We don't mean to criticise you unduly - we just want you to make an
effort to write properly, the same as the rest of us.
It's just that there are people who aren't of an English
speaking/writing background here on the list and sloppy grammar &
punctuation just makes it more difficult.
There's no excuse for laziness - but we weren't honestly trying to be
unfair to you.

Mark "haven't reset up signature yet"



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References: <20020226161338.21108.qmail@web10406.mail.yahoo.com> <002401c1bee6$ae712250$c7df0ccb@vaio> <00f101c1cece$46620ba0$2f01a8c0@allans> <009201c1cf03$b94f0660$54e436d2@shaelynn>
Subject: Re: Attack of the Clones.
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 19:50:47 -0000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Justin" <justin.carew@ntlworld.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Attack of the Clones.
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 19:50:47 -0000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I was really looking forward to the
Attack of the Clones, but when i saw the
trailer it was a let down. A romance.
That's what i saw. a romance. What is
the world coming to? Star Wars. Fighting
in space, special effects, great actions
scenes but not a romance.

A very disappointed Justin
----- Original Message -----
From: "Julie Wootten" <wootten@xtra.co.nz>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 5:05 AM
Subject: OT: Attack of the Clones.


| Okay... I gotta be nuts for introducing an OT topic so soon after
| the last few entertaining days, but I know most of you are SW
| fans, and I just feasted my eyes on the first review I've seen of
| Attack Of The Clones.
|
| So even though I'm still stinging from the 7 or 8 people that
| corrected my last post (sorry folks, I should have done my
| homework, and I've reread the FAQ so I don't look quite
| so stupid again - on that particular matter), without further ado:
|
| http://www.aintitcoolnews.com/display.cg i?id=11796
|
| Julie. <-- Attach flames here, not to the list.
|
|
|
|



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Summary-line: 19-Mar          Valheru22@aol.com  [49] #Re: Attack of the Clones.
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Subject: Re: Attack of the Clones.
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*** EOOH ***
From: Valheru22@aol.com
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 15:24:19 EST
Subject: Re: Attack of the Clones.
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Justin, it is still going to have everything such as the fights and etc. and 
alot more, but Lucas has to show how Luke and Leia were concieved and how 
Anikan and her feel in love. So I mean you had to have seen it comming. From 
what I have heard though there is going to be tons of fights and things 
because it also has to show the fight with the Jedi and Clones. From what I 
heard there is a huge battle at the end. Bigger then any of the rest.
-Chance



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Summary-line: 19-Mar          sean@hope.kih.net [106] #Re: Attack of the Clones.
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From: Sean Fister <sean@hope.kih.net>
Subject: Re: Attack of the Clones.
In-Reply-To: <003801c1cf7f$7f064c80$0100000a@faithful>
References: <20020226161338.21108.qmail@web10406.mail.yahoo.com>
 <002401c1bee6$ae712250$c7df0ccb@vaio>
 <00f101c1cece$46620ba0$2f01a8c0@allans>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 15:38:53 -0500
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Sean Fister <sean@hope.kih.net>
Subject: Re: Attack of the Clones.
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

At 02:50 PM 3/19/02, you wrote:
Justin:

Have you seen the last trailer produced?  The one released about a week and 
half ago?  If you haven't, then you probably won't be disappointed.  It has 
everything fighting, special effects, etc.  Some choice scenes show Samuel 
Jackson with a lightsaber, a battle in an arena with somewhere around 13 or 
14 Jedi, and what looks like Anakin dual wielding lightsabers.  You can see 
it over at apple.com or one of the myriad of Star Wars websites.

Sean Fister



>I was really looking forward to the
>Attack of the Clones, but when i saw the
>trailer it was a let down. A romance.
>That's what i saw. a romance. What is
>the world coming to? Star Wars. Fighting
>in space, special effects, great actions
>scenes but not a romance.
>
>A very disappointed Justin
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Julie Wootten"
><wootten@xtra.co.nz>
>To: "FEISTFANS-L"
><FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
>Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 5:05 AM
>Subject: OT: Attack of the Clones.
>
>
>| Okay... I gotta be nuts for
>introducing an OT topic so soon after
>| the last few entertaining days, but I
>know most of you are SW
>| fans, and I just feasted my eyes on
>the first review I've seen of
>| Attack Of The Clones.
>|
>| So even though I'm still stinging from
>the 7 or 8 people that
>| corrected my last post (sorry folks, I
>should have done my
>| homework, and I've reread the FAQ so I
>don't look quite
>| so stupid again - on that particular
>matter), without further ado:
>|
>|
>http://www.aintitcoolnews.com/display.cg
>i?id=11796
>|
>| Julie. <-- Attach flames here, not to
>the list.
>|
>|
>|
>|



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Subject: OT: Re: Attack of the Clones.
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*** EOOH ***
From: Russell.S.Teeter@kp.org
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: OT: Re: Attack of the Clones.
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 12:22:54 -0800
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

For all 4 trailers of Attack of the Clones goto:

http://www.movie-list.com/s/starwars2.shtml 

Russell S. Teeter
Senior Unix Administrator
(626) 564-7755 - T/L 338x7755



>
>"Justin" <justin.carew@ntlworld.com>
>Sent by: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>03/19/2002 11:50 AM
>Please respond to FEISTFANS-L
>
> 
>	 To:     <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
>	 cc: 
>	 Subject:        Re: Attack of the Clones.
>
>
>I was really looking forward to the
>Attack of the Clones, but when i saw the
>trailer it was a let down. A romance.
>That's what i saw. a romance. What is
>the world coming to? Star Wars. Fighting
>in space, special effects, great actions
>scenes but not a romance.
>
>A very disappointed Justin
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Julie Wootten"
><wootten@xtra.co.nz>
>To: "FEISTFANS-L"
><FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
>Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 5:05 AM
>Subject: OT: Attack of the Clones.
>
>
>| Okay... I gotta be nuts for
>introducing an OT topic so soon after
>| the last few entertaining days, but I
>know most of you are SW
>| fans, and I just feasted my eyes on
>the first review I've seen of
>| Attack Of The Clones.
>|
>| So even though I'm still stinging from
>the 7 or 8 people that
>| corrected my last post (sorry folks, I
>should have done my
>| homework, and I've reread the FAQ so I
>don't look quite
>| so stupid again - on that particular
>matter), without further ado:
>|
>|
>http://www.aintitcoolnews.com/display.cg
>i?id=11796
>|
>| Julie. <-- Attach flames here, not to
>the list.
>|

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From: "Steve Weghorn" <pelvislives@hotmail.com>
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Subject: question for Mr. Feist
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 16:17:24 -0500
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Subject: question for Mr. Feist
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Possible Spoiler for Shards and Conclave.















Mr. Feist,

I know that you said that Tomas wasn't going to be a main character in
the new book, but I was wondering if he was a member of the conclave.

                                                                  Thanks

                                                             Steve Weghorn


1,,
Summary-line: 19-Mar            rufo@bigwig.net  [68] #Re: Attack of the Clones.
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From: Grandad Rufus <rufo@bigwig.net>
Subject: Re: Attack of the Clones.
References: <155.ac5f8de.29c8f873@aol.com>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 21:13:10 +0000
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Grandad Rufus <rufo@bigwig.net>
Subject: Re: Attack of the Clones.
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

In article <155.ac5f8de.29c8f873@aol.com>, Valheru22@aol.com writes
>Justin, it is still going to have everything such as the fights and etc. and 
>alot more, but Lucas has to show how Luke and Leia were concieved and how 
>Anikan and her feel in love. So I mean you had to have seen it comming. From 
>what I have heard though there is going to be tons of fights and things 
>because it also has to show the fight with the Jedi and Clones. From what I 
>heard there is a huge battle at the end. Bigger then any of the rest.
>-Chance
>

Jesus Guys, If I wanted off topic, I'd have stayed on the newsgroup. At
least there I have the option NOT to download it.

Come on. Some of us don't give a damn what film's on where in the States
( or anywhere else for that matter ).

However, some of us DO still pay for our phone time whilst on line.

 
-- 
*******
Grandad Rufus.

It's not that I have a dirty mind, you understand.
It's just that so many of my thoughts leave muddy little footprints...



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	 <NDBBKHPIGLBALHEIODGDKEINCLAA.jmatlock@cox.net>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 23:55:03 +0200
From: Ziad El-Hajj <pilgrim@inco.com.lb>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: SoCal garden slugs...
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Richard Williamson wrote:

> *nods* My wife is my best friend, we've been together for over ten years now, and
> she /still/ says that, too.

I suddenly feel better <g>

> Well, I should hope not.  Dull is boring.

> See, Mr. Rosenberg made a throw-away comment about Southern California garden
> slugs.   And I'm never one to waste a good opportunity like that. Throw-away
> comments lead to the wildest tangents that usually don't offend (unless the comment
> itself was, in and of itself, offensive), are rife with possibilities of bizarre
> humor, etc.

Well yes, it's true they lead to wild tangents, it's true they are
bizarre, but... I don't know, I read Mr. Rosenberg's post, and to tell
you the truth I would have never realized that the comment in question
could warrant further investigation.

> By the way, there was an article in New Scientist about a family in Australia
> (ex-pat Britons, I think), who used slugs from their garden there to keep the mold
> and mildew down in their shower...slugs eat molds and mildews.  I'm trying to find
> that reference, now.

Okkay... I think I'm going to void my first sentence in this message....

> Sleep well, kids ;->

Well it is midnight and I was about to go to sleep... I don't know if
I still can....

Ziad


"If there are thing you know are there that you can't see, then might
there not also be things you don't know are there that you can't see?"

(and no, that was NOT from memory)



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Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 17:57:20 EST
Subject: OT Attack of the Clones.
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*** EOOH ***
From: Valheru22@aol.com
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 17:57:20 EST
Subject: OT Attack of the Clones.
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

In a message dated 3/19/2002 2:01:01 PM Pacific Standard Time, 
rufo@bigwig.net writes:


> Jesus Guys, If I wanted off topic, I'd have stayed on the newsgroup. At
> least there I have the option NOT to download it.
> 
> Come on. Some of us don't give a damn what film's on where in the States
> ( or anywhere else for that matter ).
> 
> However, some of us DO still pay for our phone time whilst on line.
> 
> 
> -- 
> *******
> Grandad Rufus.
> 
> 

Dude it said OT. If you don't want to read off topic things then delete it! 
Don't make a big deal people. It was my fault not to put a OT thing. But 
don't start another argument just delete the damned thing if it is off topic!
-Chance

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Subject: Re: Granddad Rufus
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 06:44:46 +0800
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Alan Noonan" <alannoonan@iinet.net.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Granddad Rufus
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 06:44:46 +0800
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Great signature!!

Alan Noonan
----- Original Message -----
From: Grandad Rufus <rufo@bigwig.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2002 5:13 AM
Subject: Re: Attack of the Clones.


> In article <155.ac5f8de.29c8f873@aol.com>, Valheru22@aol.com writes
> >Justin, it is still going to have everything such as the fights and etc. and
> >alot more, but Lucas has to show how Luke and Leia were concieved and how
> >Anikan and her feel in love. So I mean you had to have seen it comming. From
> >what I have heard though there is going to be tons of fights and things
> >because it also has to show the fight with the Jedi and Clones. From what I
> >heard there is a huge battle at the end. Bigger then any of the rest.
> >-Chance
> >
>
> Jesus Guys, If I wanted off topic, I'd have stayed on the newsgroup. At
> least there I have the option NOT to download it.
>
> Come on. Some of us don't give a damn what film's on where in the States
> ( or anywhere else for that matter ).
>
> However, some of us DO still pay for our phone time whilst on line.
>
>
> --
> *******
> Grandad Rufus.
>
> It's not that I have a dirty mind, you understand.
> It's just that so many of my thoughts leave muddy little footprints...
>
>



1,,
Summary-line: 20-Mar  s355156@student.uq.edu.au  [66] #OT: Re: SoCal garden slugs...
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Subject: OT: Re: SoCal garden slugs...
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 09:06:27 +1000 (EST)
From: "A irving" <s355156@student.uq.edu.au>
To: feistfans-l@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: OT: Re: SoCal garden slugs...
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

You can sign up online for a 7-day free trial of the archives aswell.
Responding To:    Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Original Date:    Tue, 19 Mar 2002 14:09:19 +0000
> 
> At 11:23 AM 3/19/02, Richard Williamson wrote:
> >molds and mildews.  I'm trying to find that reference, now.
> 
> Sorry about this, but you need a login for the archive.
> If you have a normal postal subscription to New Scientist,
> you can get to this. 
> 
> http://archive.newscientist.com/archive.jsp?id=22494600
> 
> If your local library's periodical section has New Scientist,
> then here is the details:
> 
> Author:      Stephanie Pain 
> Periodical:  New Scientist magazine, 
> Reference:   vol 167 issue 2249, 29/07/2000, page 34
> 
> I'll go away now.
> 
> rip
> 




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Subject: I'm back.....
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 06:46:32 +0800
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Alan Noonan" <alannoonan@iinet.net.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: I'm back.....
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 06:46:32 +0800
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Have returned to the list after a two year absence

My, aren't there some names missing since I first joined in '95!

Alan

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*** EOOH ***
From: "Jason Martin" <res0b95g@verizon.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: I'm back.....
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 15:42:54 -0800
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Some of us are still here, but under different email addresses now. =)  

Jason

"Too much knowlege never makes for simple decisions."
                           Ghanima- Children of Dune
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: Alan Noonan 
>To: FEISTFANS-L 
>Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 2:46 PM
>Subject: I'm back.....
>
>
>Have returned to the list after a two year absence
>
>My, aren't there some names missing since I first joined in '95!
>
>Alan

1,,
Summary-line: 19-Mar  william@wmarnoch.freeserv  [69] #Re: Attack of the Clones.
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From: "William Marnoch" <william@wmarnoch.freeserve.co.uk>
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*** EOOH ***
From: "William Marnoch" <william@wmarnoch.freeserve.co.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 23:57:09 -0000
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On 19 Mar 02, at 19:50, Justin wrote:

> I was really looking forward to the
> Attack of the Clones, but when i saw the
> trailer it was a let down. A romance.
> That's what i saw. a romance. What is
> the world coming to? Star Wars. Fighting
> in space, special effects, great actions
> scenes but not a romance.

There's a new trailer on the internet which I think would be much 
more to your liking. There's a fair bit of action in it and it all looks 
quite nice.
 
> A very disappointed Justin


-- 
William Marnoch
william@wmarnoch.freeserve.co.uk
ICQ:77848483



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To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
References: <190.4031331.29c91c50@aol.com>
Subject: Re: OT Attack of the Clones.
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT Attack of the Clones.
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 18:28:09 -0600
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

    He's not starting another argument, he is making a valid
complaint.  He still has to pay to download the messages.  This is
called common courtesy and don't post huge numbers of off topic
material on this list when you know it is going to churn up
excessive amounts of cost for some individuals.  This is part of the
reasoning for limiting file sizes in html, excessive quoting, and
the no binary rule (though that I understand also has to do with
viruses).  Either way the posts that he quoted were not marked OT to
begin with (and less than 1/3 of the messages on the topic are
marked so anyway).
    Furthermore this subject was THROWN from the list last time it
came up by BOTH Ray and the ADMIN.  Regardless of whether or not a
majority of us are starwars fans (I am not one), there are hundreds
if not thousands of sites and lists you may join to get your daily
fix of Starwars.  It did not need to come to this list, and if it
was going to, all the post relating to it should have moved
immediately off the list without a second thought.
    Oh and Chance, putting an OT marker on it doesn't make it some
how acceptable.  The OT marker is just for some of our filters, and
is little more than a basic courtesy.  If one is not there, and you
reply to it, PUT IT THERE if it is going to the list for some
reason.

    I'll save some space here and say hello to Alan since he is back
again.

-James (who is always on a soapbox...just depends on which one)

----- Original Message -----
>> Jesus Guys, If I wanted off topic, I'd have stayed on the
>> newsgroup. At least there I have the option NOT to download
>> it.
>>
>> Come on. Some of us don't give a damn what film's on
>> where in the States ( or anywhere else for that matter ).
> >
> > However, some of us DO still pay for our phone time whilst on line.

> Dude it said OT. If you don't want to read off topic things then
> delete it! Don't make a big deal people. It was my fault not to put
> a OT thing. But don't start another argument just delete the damned
> thing if it is off topic!
> -Chance
>



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*** EOOH ***
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From: "cory williamson" <corywillfcb@hotmail.com>
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Subject: unsubscribing
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 18:45:48 -0600
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can someone tell me how?  any help is appreciated.


_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 17:27:51 -0800
Subject: Re: question for Mr. Feist
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Tuesday, March 19, 2002, at 01:17 PM, Steve Weghorn wrote:

> Possible Spoiler for Shards and Conclave.
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
> Mr. Feist,
> I know that you said that Tomas wasn't going to be a main character in 
> the new book, but I was wondering if he was a member of the conclave.
>

No.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.

1,,
Summary-line: 19-Mar      raymond@bittersea.com  [72] #OT Re: Attack of the Clones.
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Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 17:27:00 -0800
Subject: OT Re: Attack of the Clones.
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 17:27:00 -0800
Subject: OT Re: Attack of the Clones.
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Tuesday, March 19, 2002, at 11:50 AM, Justin wrote:

> I was really looking forward to the
> Attack of the Clones, but when i saw the
> trailer it was a let down. A romance.
> That's what i saw. a romance. What is
> the world coming to? Star Wars. Fighting
> in space, special effects, great actions
> scenes but not a romance.
>

OK, I will not tell you how I know.

I will not divulge any plot points.

I will not talk about the story.

I will say that many of you will walk out of the theater convinced 
you've just seen the best Star Wars Episode made.  In fact, it'll make 
you want to re-watch Phantom Menace so you can realize some of the stuff 
in that film you saw but didn't understand.

Best, R.E.F.

----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 17:28:41 -0800
Subject: Re: I'm back.....
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 17:28:41 -0800
Subject: Re: I'm back.....
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Tuesday, March 19, 2002, at 02:46 PM, Alan Noonan wrote:

> Have returned to the list after a two year absence
>  
> My, aren't there some names missing since I first joined in '95!
>  
> Alan
>
>

Welcome back, Alan.

Now, get your feet off the table!

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.

1,,
Summary-line: 19-Mar       res0ibjw@verizon.net [107] #Re: OT Attack of the Clones.
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Subject: Re: OT Attack of the Clones.
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 17:34:12 -0800
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Jay" <res0ibjw@verizon.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT Attack of the Clones.
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 17:34:12 -0800
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oh for the days when my screen wasnt filled with messages of people whining
about OT mails... I love how this guy uses the fact that some people have to
pay per message they download... yet he feels the need to type out a pretty
large message himself... just adding to the clutter.
----- Original Message -----
From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 4:28 PM
Subject: Re: OT Attack of the Clones.


>     He's not starting another argument, he is making a valid
> complaint.  He still has to pay to download the messages.  This is
> called common courtesy and don't post huge numbers of off topic
> material on this list when you know it is going to churn up
> excessive amounts of cost for some individuals.  This is part of the
> reasoning for limiting file sizes in html, excessive quoting, and
> the no binary rule (though that I understand also has to do with
> viruses).  Either way the posts that he quoted were not marked OT to
> begin with (and less than 1/3 of the messages on the topic are
> marked so anyway).
>     Furthermore this subject was THROWN from the list last time it
> came up by BOTH Ray and the ADMIN.  Regardless of whether or not a
> majority of us are starwars fans (I am not one), there are hundreds
> if not thousands of sites and lists you may join to get your daily
> fix of Starwars.  It did not need to come to this list, and if it
> was going to, all the post relating to it should have moved
> immediately off the list without a second thought.
>     Oh and Chance, putting an OT marker on it doesn't make it some
> how acceptable.  The OT marker is just for some of our filters, and
> is little more than a basic courtesy.  If one is not there, and you
> reply to it, PUT IT THERE if it is going to the list for some
> reason.
>
>     I'll save some space here and say hello to Alan since he is back
> again.
>
> -James (who is always on a soapbox...just depends on which one)
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> >> Jesus Guys, If I wanted off topic, I'd have stayed on the
> >> newsgroup. At least there I have the option NOT to download
> >> it.
> >>
> >> Come on. Some of us don't give a damn what film's on
> >> where in the States ( or anywhere else for that matter ).
> > >
> > > However, some of us DO still pay for our phone time whilst on
> line.
>
> > Dude it said OT. If you don't want to read off topic things then
> > delete it! Don't make a big deal people. It was my fault not to
> put
> > a OT thing. But don't start another argument just delete the
> damned
> > thing if it is off topic!
> > -Chance
> >
>



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*** EOOH ***
From: "Darren McClung" <dmcclung1@kc.rr.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: unsubscribing
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 21:18:15 -0600
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I send this to the list since these questions usually spawn about 10 others
identical to it...

Send "unsubscribe FEISTFANS-L" in the body of a message to
listproc@cornell.edu.

Darren

>
> can someone tell me how?  any help is appreciated.
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com
>



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Subject: Re: OT Re: Attack of the Clones.
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 14:20:23 +1100
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From: "Rachel Unwin" <jeddasw@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re: OT Re: Attack of the Clones.
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 14:20:23 +1100
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Don't tell me you've already seen it, Ray?   
  
----- Original Message -----
>From: Raymond Feist
>Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2002 12:37 PM
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: OT Re: Attack of the Clones.
>  
>
>On Tuesday, March 19, 2002, at 11:50 AM, Justin wrote:
>
>> I was really looking forward to the
>> Attack of the Clones, but when i saw the
>> trailer it was a let down. A romance.
>> That's what i saw. a romance. What is
>> the world coming to? Star Wars. Fighting
>> in space, special effects, great actions
>> scenes but not a romance.
>>
>
>OK, I will not tell you how I know.
>
>I will not divulge any plot points.
>
>I will not talk about the story.
>
>I will say that many of you will walk out of the theater convinced
>you've just seen the best Star Wars Episode made.  In fact, it'll make
>you want to re-watch Phantom Menace so you can realize some of the stuff
>in that film you saw but didn't understand.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
>stupidity.

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Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 22:27:21 EST
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::a shadow emerges from the lurker's corner:: Okay, just one little 
question...Is Jar-Jar in it? Because mees wannas whip him froma me mind

1,,
Summary-line: 19-Mar        bretr@alliances.org [183] #Re: OT: I'm back (for now)
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From: Bret Robideaux <bretr@alliances.org>
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Allan Mills wrote:

>  Well I'm back from my trip to the USA. Thankfully I didn't have any major
> problems like lost luggage or missing flights/buses. I was a bit surprised
> the first time I saw a couple of soldiers in one of the airports armed with
> M16s.


   Welcome back. When I was in Germany (in the early 80s) there were 
German police wandering about the airports with automatic weapons. At 
the time I idly wondered when we (the US) would do that. Now I'm wishing 
we didn't have to *sigh*


> 
>  Thoughts and notes about my trip :
> 
>  Sales taxes caught me by surprise since they are applied when you purchase
> the item and usually aren't included as part of the price. I dimly recalled
> hearing something about them once so I didn't get into an argument with the
> sales clerk. Is this just a marketing ploy or is there a legitimate reason
> why they don't apply tax beforehand? It's illegal to do that kind of thing
> in Australia.


   Hmmm, it's a bit more complicated than just marketing (although it 
doesn't hurt the marketers feelings at all). It's more a matter a 
convenience. You see, just about every government body with jurisdiction 
can apply a sales tax on whatever is bought and sold (from the 
Federal/National government down to the local city council).

   In the simplest case, there are four government bodies with 
jurisdiction (National, State, County, City). Get into large metro areas 
and it's worse. Anyway, anyone of them can (and most do) apply some 
sales tax to various objects.

   For consumer items, the Fed doesn't apply a tax, so that just leaves 
the state, county and city (and metro, municipality, etc). But most 
states do, most counties do and nearly all cities do. For example, the 
state decides it wants 2%, the county wants 2% and the city wants 3% 
(simple cases, each usually has something weird like 1.75%). Anyway that 
adds up to a 7% tax added in at the register.

   Nice and simple right? Wrong. Each body can change how much they get 
at their whim (or if they can convince enough registered voters to agree 
to it). Then they do things really strange, like the city will decide 
that it's in its best interest not to tax a certain item, or tax another 
thing more or less than the rest.

   Basically, it becomes a mess and nearly impossible for retailers (and 
such) to keep up with changing the price tags. It's easier to advertise 
the actual price of the item, program the taxes into the computer and 
let the consumer expect that taxes will be added in at the register.

   Think thats it? Nope. Officially, you are expected to pay local taxes 
on items you bought over the internet, from a mail order, etc. But 
unless you're in the same jurisdiction (this is usually state level), 
the retailer can't collect the tax you owe. You are "expected" to report 
and pay taxes on those items. However this expectation is all but 
ignored because there's no convenient way for consumers to report and 
pay, and enforcement would cost more than it would generate in revenue 
and a myriad of other problems.

   Death and taxes: the two worst things in life are completely 
unavoidable. Blech!

> 
>  The cost of food had me very surprised. I'm not just talking about the food
> in theme parks but also places like IHOP and Denny's. I was paying much, if
> not more, in US dollars then I'd pay for the same in Australian dollars down
> here. Anyone have any ideas why this is so? I will note though, most of the
> meals are very large. Normally I only had to have either lunch or dinner,
> not both.


   Yeah, I find eating out to be more pricey than it could be in 
general. But everytime minimum wage goes up (labor is the most expensive 
part of a restaurant, or any business for that matter) or any 
significant wholesale cost increase happens, the choice is raise prices 
or take it out of profits.

   More likely, in your case, since you were near a tourist area (within 
a couple miles) prices will be jacked up because they can. Most places 
I've lived, the gas stations nearest the highways and interstates will 
have slightly higher prices than stations farther away. Same principle.

   Finally, California and Florida (and parts of New York/New Jersey) 
are significantly higher than the rest of the country for many things 
(including real estate and restaurants).


> 
>  One of the bus drivers I had was telling the passengers about how
> Disneyland usually starts making profits for the day after only 1/2 hour
> after opening. However someone else told me the government had to bail
> Disneyland out of bankruptcy a decade or more ago. Any idea which is
> correct?


   Hmmm, that might have happened in the 80s, but unless some laws were 
slipped into various bills that were favorable to certain companies (not 
out of the realm of possibility), the government really didn't do 
anything to bail any company out. The government does act as an 
insurance agency for certain businesses (banks primarily), but regular 
businesses don't get such overt protection.

   However, Disney's financial woes are long behind them. They currently 
own ABC, ESPN, a themed cruise line (including a private island) and 
small host of other valuable properties.


> 
>  When going on certain rides in the theme parks they often have noticeboards
> or announcements saying what you aren't allowed to do. The first weird one I
> heard was when they said no using 2-way radios, I actually saw someone using
> one at another park so that's fair enough I suppose. The other one that
> caught my attention was when they said not to use laser pointers. This was
> even a warning on a big wooden rollercoaster at Knott's Berry farm. I can't
> imagine why you'd want to use one on a rollercoaster.



   If there's a sign, you know at least one fool did it. For fun, read 
some of the warning labels on products in stores. And realize that 
someone actually did that (Preparation H: not to be taken orally)


> 
>  Anyway, I'll be spending the remaining two weeks of my holiday with my
> parents so I'll be back to this list full time after Easter.
> 


   Again, welcome back ... to the list, that is :)

Bret




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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT Re: Attack of the Clones.
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*** EOOH ***
From: coweater@alphalink.com.au
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT Re: Attack of the Clones.
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 14:48:32 +1100
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Goto,

http://www.aintitcoolnews.com/

Minor spoilers but it should convince any Star Wars fan about the second 
movie, it also hints that the existence of Jar Jar - the one we love to 
hate, is explained.

Regards,

Brad




>Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
>Sent by: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>20/03/2002 12:27 PM
>Please respond to FEISTFANS-L
>
> 
>	 To:     FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
>	 cc: 
>	 Subject:        OT Re: Attack of the Clones.
>
>
>
>On Tuesday, March 19, 2002, at 11:50 AM, Justin wrote:
>
>> I was really looking forward to the
>> Attack of the Clones, but when i saw the
>> trailer it was a let down. A romance.
>> That's what i saw. a romance. What is
>> the world coming to? Star Wars. Fighting
>> in space, special effects, great actions
>> scenes but not a romance.
>>
>
>OK, I will not tell you how I know.
>
>I will not divulge any plot points.
>
>I will not talk about the story.
>
>I will say that many of you will walk out of the theater convinced 
>you've just seen the best Star Wars Episode made.  In fact, it'll make 
>you want to re-watch Phantom Menace so you can realize some of the stuff 
>in that film you saw but didn't understand.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
>stupidity.

1,,
Summary-line: 19-Mar            cries@yifan.net  [56] #Re: OT Re: Attack of the Clones.
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Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 21:02:33 -0700
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT Re: Attack of the Clones.
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coweater@alphalink.com.au wrote:
>
> Minor spoilers but it should convince any Star Wars fan about the
> second movie, it also hints that the existence of Jar Jar - the one we
> love to hate, is explained.

The only convincing anybody should need is to decide whether to see the
movie yourself, and if you see it, decide for yourself what you thought
of it.

Craig J. Ries



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From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: OT Re: Attack of the Clones.
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 13:10:42 +0800
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*** EOOH ***
From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: OT Re: Attack of the Clones.
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 13:10:42 +0800
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I'm sure that is exactly what he'll do, tell you he hasn't seen it (not
officially at least). I wish I was a famour author so I could "not" see
Star Wars months early :)
 
Dave

-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Rachel Unwin
>Sent: Wednesday, 20 March 2002 11:20 AM
>To: FEISTFANS-L
>Subject: Re: OT Re: Attack of the Clones.
>
>
>Don't tell me you've already seen it, Ray?  
> 
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Raymond Feist
>Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2002 12:37 PM
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: OT Re: Attack of the Clones.
> 
>
>On Tuesday, March 19, 2002, at 11:50 AM, Justin wrote:
>
>> I was really looking forward to the
>> Attack of the Clones, but when i saw the
>> trailer it was a let down. A romance.
>> That's what i saw. a romance. What is
>> the world coming to? Star Wars. Fighting
>> in space, special effects, great actions
>> scenes but not a romance.
>>
>
>OK, I will not tell you how I know.
>
>I will not divulge any plot points.
>
>I will not talk about the story.
>
>I will say that many of you will walk out of the theater convinced
>you've just seen the best Star Wars Episode made.  In fact, it'll make
>you want to re-watch Phantom Menace so you can realize some of the stuff
>in that film you saw but didn't understand.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
>stupidity.
>

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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 22:08:06 -0800
Subject: Re: OT Re: Attack of the Clones.
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Tuesday, March 19, 2002, at 07:20 PM, Rachel Unwin wrote:

> Don't tell me you've already seen it, Ray?  
>
I have said all I'm going to on the subject.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.

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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 22:08:32 -0800
Subject: Re: OT Re: Attack of the Clones.
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Tuesday, March 19, 2002, at 07:27 PM, Thornblood@aol.com wrote:

> ::a shadow emerges from the lurker's corner:: Okay, just one little 
> question...Is Jar-Jar in it? Because mees wannas whip him froma me mind
>
>
>

Actually, that's no secret.  Yes, Jar-Jar is in it.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.

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From: "Shawn Green" <Lore_Master_Mamo@msn.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: OT about the Re: STAR WARS ATTACK of the CLONES
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*** EOOH ***
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From: "Shawn Green" <Lore_Master_Mamo@msn.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: OT about the Re: STAR WARS ATTACK of the CLONES
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 02:17:17 -0500
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Hey guys I maybe new to this stuff but I like Star Wars just a much as
the next guy ( have read most of the Star Wars books own all 4 movies
and allot of the cartoon) more but enough is enough this list is
suppose to be about the works of Raymond E. Feist a great author by
the way. So can you guys and gals stop filling my inbox with Re:Attack
of the clones it is getting old and I know that is your right to free
speech and all but this is getting to the point of Spam like if you
guys want to talk about start an IRC channel of message board or an
AIM chat invite me I will come but this is not the place to do it. I
am sorry if I over stepped my bounds.

~Knowledge is the greatest gift~Get more from the Web.  FREE MSN
Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com

1,,
Summary-line: 20-Mar      shawnc@starhub.net.sg  [73] #Re: OT about the Re: STAR WARS ATTACK of the CLONES
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Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 15:54:57 +0800
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Shawn Chung <shawnc@starhub.net.sg>
Subject: Re: OT about the Re: STAR WARS ATTACK of the CLONES
Cc: Shawn Green <Lore_Master_Mamo@msn.com>
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On Wed, 20 Mar 2002, Shawn Green <Lore_Master_Mamo@msn.com> said:

>Hey guys I maybe new to this stuff but I like Star Wars just a much 
>as the next guy ( have read most of the Star Wars books own all 4 
>movies and allot of the cartoon) more but enough is enough this list 
>is suppose to be about the works of Raymond E. Feist a great author 
>by the way. So can you guys and gals stop filling my inbox with 
>Re:Attack of the clones it is getting old and I know that is your 
>right to free speech and all but this is getting to the point of 
>Spam like if you guys want to talk about start an IRC channel of 
>message board or an AIM chat invite me I will come but this is not 
>the place to do it. I am sorry if I over stepped my bounds.
>
>~Knowledge is the greatest gift~

Since Ray was the one who started this OT tread, and since this is 
'his' list, this topic actually becomes on topic.

This is why, for example, the discussion of wines and other distilled 
beverages is allowed on this list.

-- 
----

SeeYa StarSide

Shawn Chung



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From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: I'm back.....
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 08:36:29 +0000
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: I'm back.....
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I'm not here anymore.  I left about six months ago in a purple
huff, and haven't been heard from since.  Investigations are
continuing...Foul play is expected.

rip

At 10:46 PM 3/19/02, Alan Noonan wrote:
>Have returned to the list after a two year absence
> 
>My, aren't there some names missing since I first joined in '95!
> 
>Alan



1,,
Summary-line: 20-Mar            rufo@bigwig.net  [68] #Re: OT Attack of the Clones.
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From: Grandad Rufus <rufo@bigwig.net>
Subject: Re: OT Attack of the Clones.
References: <190.4031331.29c91c50@aol.com>
 <014b01c1cfa6$1dbf94a0$28e779a5@oemcomputer>
 <001a01c1cfaf$57c63b00$0200a8c0@jay>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 08:08:35 +0000
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Grandad Rufus <rufo@bigwig.net>
Subject: Re: OT Attack of the Clones.
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

In article <001a01c1cfaf$57c63b00$0200a8c0@jay>, Jay
<res0ibjw@verizon.net> writes
>oh for the days when my screen wasnt filled with messages of people whining
>about OT mails... I love how this guy uses the fact that some people have to
>pay per message they download... yet he feels the need to type out a pretty
>large message himself... just adding to the clutter.


If you're referring to my complaint, I quoted six lines and added five
lines myself. total length of post, eleven lines.

My complaint: In a newsgroup, I can download headers, see they are OT
and not bother to download the message. In a mailing list, you got no
choice. ( Other than trying to create a fancy rule to reject OT, and
that don't work if they don't use it in the first place. )


-- 
*******
Grandad Rufus.

It's not that I have a dirty mind, you understand.
It's just that so many of my thoughts leave muddy little footprints...



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From: "Stuart Maher" <stuart.maher@ntlworld.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Attack of the Clones.
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 09:58:22 -0000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Stuart Maher" <stuart.maher@ntlworld.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Attack of the Clones.
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 09:58:22 -0000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Justin,

There is a new trailer on the website that should satisfy you ;-)

Stu

-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Justin
>Sent: 19 March 2002 19:51
>To: FEISTFANS-L
>Subject: Re: Attack of the Clones.
>
>
>I was really looking forward to the
>Attack of the Clones, but when i saw the
>trailer it was a let down. A romance.
>That's what i saw. a romance. What is
>the world coming to? Star Wars. Fighting
>in space, special effects, great actions
>scenes but not a romance.
>


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From: "A Gnome" <nightshadow@froggy.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
References: <20020226161338.21108.qmail@web10406.mail.yahoo.com> <002401c1bee6$ae712250$c7df0ccb@vaio> <00f101c1cece$46620ba0$2f01a8c0@allans> <3C98053A.2050502@alliances.org>
Subject: Re: OT: I'm back (for now)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 19:56:34 +1000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "A Gnome" <nightshadow@froggy.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT: I'm back (for now)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 19:56:34 +1000
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From: "Bret Robideaux" <bretr@alliances.org>
> Allan Mills wrote:
>
> >  Well I'm back from my trip to the USA. Thankfully I didn't have any major
> > problems like lost luggage or missing flights/buses. I was a bit surprised
> > the first time I saw a couple of soldiers in one of the airports armed with
> > M16s.
>
>
>    Welcome back. When I was in Germany (in the early 80s) there were
> German police wandering about the airports with automatic weapons. At
> the time I idly wondered when we (the US) would do that. Now I'm wishing
> we didn't have to *sigh*
A friend of mine has cystic fibrosis, he use to have a plug which went
straight into his stomach. When he was leaving Germany to go into hungary
the soldiers there, with machine guns, took him into a back room and were
about to rip his stomach out as they thought he was carrying drugs in there.
He could not speak german well enough to defend himself, and they hardly
spoke english. Luckily my friends dad was finally allowed in the room and
showed them the medical certificate.



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Summary-line: 20-Mar        cjs94@zepler.org.uk  [55] #Re: I'm back.....
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Chris Smith" <cjs94@zepler.org.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 09:59:27 -0000
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On 20 Mar 2002, at 8:36, Richard Williamson wrote:

> I'm not here anymore.  I left about six months ago in a purple
> huff, and haven't been heard from since.  Investigations are
> continuing...Foul play is expected.

"Little does he know I've never played with a fowl in my life..."

Chris



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Summary-line: 20-Mar  o: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.ed  [94] #Re: OT: I'm back (for now)
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From: "Donal K. Fellows" <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
In-reply-to: <3C98053A.2050502@alliances.org> (message from Bret Robideaux on
	Tue, 19 Mar 2002 21:42:50 -0600)
Subject: Re: OT: I'm back (for now)
References: <20020226161338.21108.qmail@web10406.mail.yahoo.com> <002401c1bee6$ae712250$c7df0ccb@vaio> <00f101c1cece$46620ba0$2f01a8c0@allans> <3C98053A.2050502@alliances.org>
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Donal K. Fellows" <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT: I'm back (for now)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 10:38:21 +0000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Bret Robideaux <bretr@alliances.org>
> Hmmm, it's a bit more complicated than just marketing (although it
> doesn't hurt the marketers feelings at all). It's more a matter a
> convenience. You see, just about every government body with
> jurisdiction can apply a sales tax on whatever is bought and sold
> (from the Federal/National government down to the local city
> council).
[...]
> It's easier to advertise 
> the actual price of the item, program the taxes into the computer and 
> let the consumer expect that taxes will be added in at the register.
[...]

I'm used to UK practise which has a single uniform sales tax (VAT[*])
of 17.5% which applies to everything (with a few exceptions: some
kinds of food, all printed matter, children's clothing, and
energy[**]) sold to consumers.  And consumer laws which require that
the price on the ad be the price you pay (and price tags are classed
as ads here.)  Though a few kinds of goods (notably computers) are
often expressed excluding VAT (the ad has to say this is the case too)
usually because a lot of the purchases are made by businesses (which
fall under a different tax system.)

On a wider scale, as I understand it, throughout the EU I can buy (for
my own use) anything, pay local sales taxes, and then pay nothing more
when I take it home.

> However, Disney's financial woes are long behind them. They
> currently own ABC, ESPN, a themed cruise line (including a private
> island) and small host of other valuable properties.

I was reading the other day (in the FT I think) that they were being
looked at quite greedily by some other (unnamed) firms who were
thinking that Disney was not all that well run, and would be a nice
takeover target, either for one of the big media groups or a large
venture capitalist.

> If there's a sign, you know at least one fool did it. For fun, read
> some of the warning labels on products in stores. And realize that
> someone actually did that (Preparation H: not to be taken orally)

My favourite is on packets of salted roast peanuts: "May contain
traces of nuts."  As if there's a fair possibility that this is not
the case...  *shudders*

Donal.
-- 
Donal K. Fellows, Department of Computer Science, University of Manchester, UK.
(work) fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk     Tel: +44-161-275-6137  (preferred email addr.)
(home) donal@ugglan.demon.co.uk  Tel: +44-1274-401017   Mobile: +44-7957-298955
http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~fellowsd/  (Don't quote my .sig; I've seen it before!)



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Summary-line: 20-Mar  ard.williamson@windriver.  [62] #Re: I'm back.....
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From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: I'm back.....
In-Reply-To: <3C985D7F.30149.CB3A0@localhost>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 10:41:45 +0000
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: I'm back.....
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

At 09:59 AM 3/20/02, Chris Smith wrote:
>On 20 Mar 2002, at 8:36, Richard Williamson wrote:
>
>> I'm not here anymore.  I left about six months ago in a purple
>> huff, and haven't been heard from since.  Investigations are
>> continuing...Foul play is expected.
>
>"Little does he know I've never played with a fowl in my life..."

Why...are you chicken? 

*ducks*

rip



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Summary-line: 20-Mar      nerf@alphalink.com.au  [71] #Re: OT: I'm back (for now)
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To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
References: <20020226161338.21108.qmail@web10406.mail.yahoo.com> <002401c1bee6$ae712250$c7df0ccb@vaio> <00f101c1cece$46620ba0$2f01a8c0@allans> <3C98053A.2050502@alliances.org> <E16ndU5-0000vx-00@athene>
Subject: Re: OT: I'm back (for now)
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Alex Loke" <nerf@alphalink.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT: I'm back (for now)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 22:22:12 +1100
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Hello,

From: "Donal K. Fellows" <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk>
> My favourite is on packets of salted roast peanuts: "May contain
> traces of nuts."  As if there's a fair possibility that this is not
> the case...  *shudders*

I still smile everytime I get complimentary peanuts from an airline.

1. Open bag.
2. Eat nuts.

Still, I'm all for the warnings on silica gel (Do not eat). I have these
wild moments where I internally debate the wisdom of removing the package
from newly purchased shoes and contentedly chewing.

*Coffee may be hot

Regards,

Alex Loke
nerf@alphalink.com.au

<INSERT WITTY LINE HERE>



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From: "Rachel Unwin" <jeddasw@hotmail.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT: I'm back (for now)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 22:28:21 +1100
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*** EOOH ***
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From: "Rachel Unwin" <jeddasw@hotmail.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT: I'm back (for now)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 22:28:21 +1100
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That's horrible!!!!

Rachel  
  
----- Original Message -----
>From: A Gnome
>Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2002 9:17 PM
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: Re: OT: I'm back (for now)
>  
>From: "Bret Robideaux" <bretr@alliances.org>
>> Allan Mills wrote:
>>
>> >  Well I'm back from my trip to the USA. Thankfully I didn't have any major
>> > problems like lost luggage or missing flights/buses. I was a bit surprised
>> > the first time I saw a couple of soldiers in one of the airports armed with
>> > M16s.
>>
>>
>>    Welcome back. When I was in Germany (in the early 80s) there were
>> German police wandering about the airports with automatic weapons. At
>> the time I idly wondered when we (the US) would do that. Now I'm wishing
>> we didn't have to *sigh*
>A friend of mine has cystic fibrosis, he use to have a plug which went
>straight into his stomach. When he was leaving Germany to go into hungary
>the soldiers there, with machine guns, took him into a back room and were
>about to rip his stomach out as they thought he was carrying drugs in there.
>He could not speak german well enough to defend himself, and they hardly
>spoke english. Luckily my friends dad was finally allowed in the room and
>showed them the medical certificate.

1,,
Summary-line: 21-Mar        tim@nicholas.net.nz  [88] #Re: OT: I'm back (for now)
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From: Tim Nicholas <tim@nicholas.net.nz>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT: I'm back (for now)
Message-ID: <20020320121431.GA9074@nicholas.net.nz>
References: <20020226161338.21108.qmail@web10406.mail.yahoo.com> <002401c1bee6$ae712250$c7df0ccb@vaio> <00f101c1cece$46620ba0$2f01a8c0@allans> <3C98053A.2050502@alliances.org> <E16ndU5-0000vx-00@athene> <002001c1d001$7ce239f0$ee63a1ca@alexloke>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 00:14:31 +1200
From: Tim Nicholas <tim@nicholas.net.nz>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT: I'm back (for now)
User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.27i
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Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Hi,
I was putting a computer together at work today, and the video card
had a label on it which said "Warranty void if broken". 

Tim

On Wed, Mar 20, 2002 at 10:22:12PM +1100, Alex Loke wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> From: "Donal K. Fellows" <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk>
> > My favourite is on packets of salted roast peanuts: "May contain
> > traces of nuts."  As if there's a fair possibility that this is not
> > the case...  *shudders*
> 
> I still smile everytime I get complimentary peanuts from an airline.
> 
> 1. Open bag.
> 2. Eat nuts.
> 
> Still, I'm all for the warnings on silica gel (Do not eat). I have these
> wild moments where I internally debate the wisdom of removing the package
> from newly purchased shoes and contentedly chewing.
> 
> *Coffee may be hot
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Alex Loke
> nerf@alphalink.com.au
> 
> <INSERT WITTY LINE HERE>
> 
> 

-- 
Tim Nicholas                          ||                      Cilix
Email: tim@nicholas.net.nz            ||       Dunedin, New Zealand
http://tim.nicholas.net.nz/           ||  Cell/SMS: +64 21 113 0399
"Grow up, Larry. You give me too much credit." - Linus Torvalds



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Summary-line: 21-Mar       heechee@softhome.net  [85] #Re: OT: Warranties
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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
References: <20020226161338.21108.qmail@web10406.mail.yahoo.com> <002401c1bee6$ae712250$c7df0ccb@vaio> <00f101c1cece$46620ba0$2f01a8c0@allans> <3C98053A.2050502@alliances.org> <E16ndU5-0000vx-00@athene> <002001c1d001$7ce239f0$ee63a1ca@alexloke> <20020320121431.GA9074@nicholas.net.nz>
Subject: Re: OT: Warranties
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Barker" <heechee@softhome.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT: Warranties
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 00:52:03 +1100
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Nicholas" <tim@nicholas.net.nz>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2002 11:14 PM
Subject: Re: OT: I'm back (for now)


> Hi,
> I was putting a computer together at work today, and the video card
> had a label on it which said "Warranty void if broken".
>

Chances are that was something to do with the removal or
backwards-engineering (not the right word, but it's 12:45, gimme a break
*grin*) of components on the card. Most electronic warranties are voided if
the owner attempts to take things apart.

<non-flame rant, so please don't take offence>

As far as I'm concerned, this is fair enough. It's unrealistic in the
extreme to expect a manufacturer to pander to customers who refuse to follow
instructions with obvious logic behind them. A recent example of this was
the Game Boy Advance... Although I'm not sure of the specifics, some
mod-chip-style device caused the Nintendo tech-support guys a lot of
hassles, because consumers were taking apart their game boys (which, I
believe, had "Opening will void warranty" or something similar on them
somewhere), fiddling with wires, and then complaining when the durn thing
decided not to work.

</rant>

Of course, I may well have the entire incident muddled. Like I said, it's
12:45, and I'm trying to write a Year 12 english essay for nine o'clock
tomorrow (and the 5% penalty for handing it in at the end of the day is
looking mighty reasonable right about now *grin*)

Cheers,
James



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Subject: Re: OT about the Re: STAR WARS ATTACK of the CLONES
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 08:10:52 -0600
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT about the Re: STAR WARS ATTACK of the CLONES
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 08:10:52 -0600
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Ray didn't start this thread, Julie did.

> Since Ray was the one who started this OT tread, and since this is
> 'his' list, this topic actually becomes on topic.
>
> This is why, for example, the discussion of wines and other distilled
> beverages is allowed on this list.



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Summary-line: 20-Mar        cjs94@zepler.org.uk  [67] #Re: I'm back.....
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From: "Chris Smith" <cjs94@zepler.org.uk>
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Chris Smith" <cjs94@zepler.org.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 14:52:34 -0000
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On 20 Mar 2002 at 10:41, Richard Williamson wrote:

> At 09:59 AM 3/20/02, Chris Smith wrote:
> >On 20 Mar 2002, at 8:36, Richard Williamson wrote:
> >
> >> I'm not here anymore.  I left about six months ago in a purple
> >> huff, and haven't been heard from since.  Investigations are
> >> continuing...Foul play is expected.
> >
> >"Little does he know I've never played with a fowl in my life..."
> 
> Why...are you chicken? 

Don't get cocky, this list is no place for that kind of poultry humour...

> *ducks*

Now _that_ was truly inspired, a real feather in your cap. :-)

Chris



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Summary-line: 20-Mar  ard.williamson@windriver.  [81] #Re: I'm back.....
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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: I'm back.....
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 15:21:02 +0000
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: I'm back.....
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

At 02:52 PM 3/20/02, Chris Smith wrote:
>On 20 Mar 2002 at 10:41, Richard Williamson wrote:
>
>> At 09:59 AM 3/20/02, Chris Smith wrote:
>> >On 20 Mar 2002, at 8:36, Richard Williamson wrote:
>> >
>> >> I'm not here anymore.  I left about six months ago in a purple
>> >> huff, and haven't been heard from since.  Investigations are
>> >> continuing...Foul play is expected.
>> >
>> >"Little does he know I've never played with a fowl in my life..."
>> 
>> Why...are you chicken? 
>
>Don't get cocky, this list is no place for that kind of poultry humour...

I'm impressed...this kid is showing some pluck...but I don't think
he'll be changing the pecking order, any.

>> *ducks*
>
>Now _that_ was truly inspired, a real feather in your cap. :-)

So we are branching out into related areas/fields?  Are we doing
headgear are we sticking with birds... decisions, decisions.
Of course, we wouldn't want to get into something like the 
Hat-field /and/ Decoys.

rip

(For those of you who missed it, the above is a reference to
a real interesting piece of American folklore.  See here:
http://userwww.service.emory.edu/~dmcco01/McCoy/diversion.html



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Summary-line: 20-Mar     terrilyn@ameritech.net  [66] #RE: OT about the Re: STAR WARS ATTACK of the CLONES
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From: "Terri Lyn Layman" <terrilyn@ameritech.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: OT about the Re: STAR WARS ATTACK of the CLONES
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 10:21:31 -0500
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*** EOOH ***
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: "Terri Lyn Layman" <terrilyn@ameritech.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: OT about the Re: STAR WARS ATTACK of the CLONES
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 10:21:31 -0500
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Hate to break it to you, but wine is not distilled.

It's fermented.

So is beer.

-TerriLyn


> 
> > Since Ray was the one who started this OT tread, and since this is
> > 'his' list, this topic actually becomes on topic.
> >
> > This is why, for example, the discussion of wines and other
> distilled
> > beverages is allowed on this list.
> 



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From: "Donal K. Fellows" <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk>
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In-reply-to: <5.1.0.14.2.20020320150752.00f02080@mail.swindon.wrsec.fr>
	(message from Richard Williamson on Wed, 20 Mar 2002 15:21:02 +0000)
Subject: Re: I'm back.....
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Donal K. Fellows" <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: I'm back.....
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 15:31:04 +0000
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Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
> At 02:52 PM 3/20/02, Chris Smith wrote:
>> On 20 Mar 2002 at 10:41, Richard Williamson wrote:
>>> At 09:59 AM 3/20/02, Chris Smith wrote:
>>>> "Little does he know I've never played with a fowl in my life..."
>>> Why...are you chicken? 
>> Don't get cocky, this list is no place for that kind of poultry humour...
> I'm impressed...this kid is showing some pluck...but I don't think
> he'll be changing the pecking order, any.
>>> *ducks*
>> Now _that_ was truly inspired, a real feather in your cap. :-)
> 
> So we are branching out into related areas/fields?  Are we doing
> headgear are we sticking with birds... decisions, decisions.
> Of course, we wouldn't want to get into something like the 
> Hat-field /and/ Decoys.

For goose-ness sake, stop quacking me up, and have a gander at the
possibility of talking turkey.  It would be pheasant to grouse a bit
longer, but I quail at the thought.

Preemptive pun strikes: the only way.

Donal.
-- 
Donal K. Fellows, Department of Computer Science, University of Manchester, UK.
(work) fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk     Tel: +44-161-275-6137  (preferred email addr.)
(home) donal@ugglan.demon.co.uk  Tel: +44-1274-401017   Mobile: +44-7957-298955
http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~fellowsd/  (Don't quote my .sig; I've seen it before!)



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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Andrea J Chee <andrea@bloodaxe.com>
Subject: Re: OT: I'm back (for now)
References: <20020226161338.21108.qmail@web10406.mail.yahoo.com>
 <002401c1bee6$ae712250$c7df0ccb@vaio> <00f101c1cece$46620ba0$2f01a8c0@allans>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 16:06:09 +0000
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Andrea J Chee <andrea@bloodaxe.com>
Subject: Re: OT: I'm back (for now)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

In article <085701c1cff5$95cf1c00$f1f6fea9@oemcomputer>, A Gnome
<nightshadow@froggy.com.au> writes

>A friend of mine has cystic fibrosis, he use to have a plug which went
>straight into his stomach. When he was leaving Germany to go into hungary
>the soldiers there, with machine guns, took him into a back room and were
>about to rip his stomach out as they thought he was carrying drugs in there.
>He could not speak german well enough to defend himself, and they hardly
>spoke english. Luckily my friends dad was finally allowed in the room and
>showed them the medical certificate.

Your friend was lucky:

http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=02/03/14/2051228&mode=thread

- ANDREA

-- 
^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^
                  ANDROMEDA - Internet Goddess
<andrea@bloodaxe.com>                    http://www.bloodaxe.com/
Bloodaxe's History Links:   http://www.geocities.com/Athens/5055/
The Loony Bin Archive:               http://www.theloonies.co.uk/



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Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 08:17:39 -0800
Subject: Re: I'm back.....
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 08:17:39 -0800
Subject: Re: I'm back.....
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Wednesday, March 20, 2002, at 12:36 AM, Richard Williamson wrote:

> I'm not here anymore.  I left about six months ago in a purple
> huff, and haven't been heard from since.  Investigations are
> continuing...Foul play is expected.
>
> rip
>

Fraud!  You're not rip!  I was there!  He left in a compact little blue 
huff!

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 08:19:28 -0800
Subject: Re: OT about the Re: STAR WARS ATTACK of the CLONES
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 08:19:28 -0800
Subject: Re: OT about the Re: STAR WARS ATTACK of the CLONES
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
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On Wednesday, March 20, 2002, at 07:21 AM, Terri Lyn Layman wrote:

> Hate to break it to you, but wine is not distilled.
>
> It's fermented.
>
> So is beer.
>
> -TerriLyn
>

By "other distilled beverages," he meant a discussion we had on why Ray 
like's scotch.

Best, R.E.F.

----
Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
From: "Donal K. Fellows" <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: I'm back.....
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 16:39:43 +0000
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Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
> He left in a compact little blue huff!

Nope, he left in a minute and a huff!

Donal (the old ones are the best ones)
-- 
Donal K. Fellows, Department of Computer Science, University of Manchester, UK.
(work) fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk     Tel: +44-161-275-6137  (preferred email addr.)
(home) donal@ugglan.demon.co.uk  Tel: +44-1274-401017   Mobile: +44-7957-298955
http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~fellowsd/  (Don't quote my .sig; I've seen it before!)



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*** EOOH ***
From: "Chris Smith" <cjs94@zepler.org.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On 20 Mar 2002 at 15:21, Richard Williamson wrote:

> At 02:52 PM 3/20/02, Chris Smith wrote:
> >On 20 Mar 2002 at 10:41, Richard Williamson wrote:
> >
> >> At 09:59 AM 3/20/02, Chris Smith wrote:
> >> >On 20 Mar 2002, at 8:36, Richard Williamson wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> I'm not here anymore.  I left about six months ago in a purple
> >> >> huff, and haven't been heard from since.  Investigations are
> >> >> continuing...Foul play is expected.
> >> >
> >> >"Little does he know I've never played with a fowl in my life..."
> >> 
> >> Why...are you chicken? 
> >
> >Don't get cocky, this list is no place for that kind of poultry humour...
> 
> I'm impressed...this kid is showing some pluck...but I don't think
> he'll be changing the pecking order, any.

Oh, look at you strutting around like a peacock, preening your feathers. I've not seen a 
more a pigeon-chested individual!

Come now, I was only larking around; everyone knows you're the head rooster and I 
wouldn't dream of trying to knock you off your perch. The fact is that I hate 
confrontations and, should a challenge arise, I'd more likely take to wing, or bury my 
head, ostrich-like, into the sand.

> So we are branching out into related areas/fields?  Are we doing
> headgear are we sticking with birds... decisions, decisions.
> Of course, we wouldn't want to get into something like the 
> Hat-field /and/ Decoys.

That's a tricky question which, I think, should be brought before the beak. But who will 
act as magistrate and give us the benefit of their owl-like wisdom? It is certainly not our 
pigeon.

> (For those of you who missed it, the above is a reference to
> a real interesting piece of American folklore.  See here:
> http://userwww.service.emory.edu/~dmcco01/McCoy/diversion.html

And again, for those that missed it, my original response was a reference to an episode 
of The Goon Show entitled "The affair of the lone banana" 
http://www.spidersweb.freeserve.co.uk/goons/scripts/Affair_of_the_Lone_Banana.htm

Chris



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*** EOOH ***
From: "Chris Smith" <cjs94@zepler.org.uk>
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On 20 Mar 2002 at 15:31, Donal K. Fellows wrote:

> Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
<snip>
> > 
> > So we are branching out into related areas/fields?  Are we doing
> > headgear are we sticking with birds... decisions, decisions.
> > Of course, we wouldn't want to get into something like the 
> > Hat-field /and/ Decoys.
> 
> For goose-ness sake, stop quacking me up, and have a gander at the
> possibility of talking turkey.  It would be pheasant to grouse a bit
> longer, but I quail at the thought.
> 
> Preemptive pun strikes: the only way.

Well, you're certainly going to ruffle some feathers with that opinion.

The PPS has its advantages, but there are also drawbacks. By putting your eggs in one 
basket you have left yourself defenseless, you are now easy prey for the vultures that 
circle above; knowing this, vultures have been known to start their meal before the 
events have been concluded.

Chris



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 17:06:50 +0000
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: I'm back.....
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

At 04:46 PM 3/20/02, Chris Smith wrote:
>And again, for those that missed it, my original response was a reference to an episode 
>of The Goon Show entitled "The affair of the lone banana" 
>http://www.spidersweb.freeserve.co.uk/goons/scripts/Affair_of_the_Lone_Banana.htm

Have a gorilla.

rip



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From: "Earl Borah" <earl@ncn.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 09:40:26 -0800
MIME-Version: 1.0
Subject: [OT] - Mail readers (was: OT Attack of the Clones)
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Earl Borah" <earl@ncn.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 09:40:26 -0800
Subject: [OT] - Mail readers (was: OT Attack of the Clones)
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> My complaint: In a newsgroup, I can download headers, see they are OT
> and not bother to download the message. In a mailing list, you got no
> choice. ( Other than trying to create a fancy rule to reject OT, and
> that don't work if they don't use it in the first place. )

Technically (if you want to get picky), this depends on your email 
software and email server. Most POP3 servers (the most common means 
of retrieving email) allow an email client to download only the 
headers of the emails, and ask the server to delete specific emails 
without ever downloading the entire body. Ever thought about how that 
"download only unread mail" thing works? That's part of it.

A few email clients will do this interactively -- allowing you to 
view only the headers of the emails on the server (much like a news 
reader), and then selectively delete or download messages. My email 
program does this fairly well, though I practically never use the 
feature myself. Many email programs don't offer this feature, though, 
so it's not something many people are familiar with.
  - Earl Borah
-----
  If a man speaks in a forest and a woman isn't there to hear it,
  is he still wrong?              (author unknown)



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From: "MChaloner" <markchaloner@btinternet.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: I'm back.....
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 17:47:07 -0000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "MChaloner" <markchaloner@btinternet.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: I'm back.....
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 17:47:07 -0000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

> At 02:52 PM 3/20/02, Chris Smith wrote:
> >On 20 Mar 2002 at 10:41, Richard Williamson wrote:
> >
> >> At 09:59 AM 3/20/02, Chris Smith wrote:
> >> >On 20 Mar 2002, at 8:36, Richard Williamson wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> I'm not here anymore.  I left about six months ago in a purple 
> >> >> huff, and haven't been heard from since.  Investigations are 
> >> >> continuing...Foul play is expected.
> >> >
> >> >"Little does he know I've never played with a fowl in my life..."
> >> 
> >> Why...are you chicken?
> >
> >Don't get cocky, this list is no place for that kind of poultry 
> >humour...
> 
> I'm impressed...this kid is showing some pluck...but I don't think 
> he'll be changing the pecking order, any.

Oh, look at you strutting around like a peacock, preening your feathers.
I've not seen a 
more a pigeon-chested individual!

Come now, I was only larking around; everyone knows you're the head
rooster and I 
wouldn't dream of trying to knock you off your perch. The fact is that I
hate 
confrontations and, should a challenge arise, I'd more likely take to
wing, or bury my 
head, ostrich-like, into the sand.

> So we are branching out into related areas/fields?  Are we doing 
> headgear are we sticking with birds... decisions, decisions. Of 
> course, we wouldn't want to get into something like the Hat-field 
> /and/ Decoys.

That's a tricky question which, I think, should be brought before the
beak. But who will 
act as magistrate and give us the benefit of their owl-like wisdom? It
is certainly not our 
pigeon.

> (For those of you who missed it, the above is a reference to a real 
> interesting piece of American folklore.  See here: 
> http://userwww.service.emory.edu/~dmcco01/McCoy/diversion.html

And again, for those that missed it, my original response was a
reference to an episode 
of The Goon Show entitled "The affair of the lone banana" 
http://www.spidersweb.freeserve.co.uk/goons/scripts/Affair_of_the_Lone_B
anana.htm

Chris



Hey! I wanna know where you guys get your jokes from see? And if you
think you ain't talkin', then I'm gonna make you sing like a Canary!!

Mark.



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*** EOOH ***
From: "MChaloner" <markchaloner@btinternet.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: I'm back.....
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 17:47:57 -0000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Richard Williamson
>Sent: 20/03/02 5:07
>To: FEISTFANS-L
>Subject: Re: I'm back.....
>
>
>At 04:46 PM 3/20/02, Chris Smith wrote:
>>And again, for those that missed it, my original response was a 
>>reference to an episode
>>of The Goon Show entitled "The affair of the lone banana" 
>>http://www.spidersweb.freeserve.co.uk/goons/scripts/Affair_of_the_Lone_Banana.htm
>
>Have a gorilla.
>
>rip
>

Ahem - no thanks, I just put one out.

Mark.



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From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: OT: For the Birds (was RE: I'm back.....)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 01:48:41 +0800
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*** EOOH ***
From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: OT: For the Birds (was RE: I'm back.....)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 01:48:41 +0800
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Aren't you guys just beating a dead parrot? Although I'm sure you will
try to convince me it's just resting.

Dave

And while people are missing references this is one to a Monty Python
sketch (I'm not sure of a good hyperlink for it though - rip?)

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu 
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Chris Smith
> Sent: Thursday, 21 March 2002 12:47 AM
> To: FEISTFANS-L
> Subject: Re: I'm back.....
> 
> 
> On 20 Mar 2002 at 15:21, Richard Williamson wrote:
> 
> > At 02:52 PM 3/20/02, Chris Smith wrote:
> > >On 20 Mar 2002 at 10:41, Richard Williamson wrote:
> > >
> > >> At 09:59 AM 3/20/02, Chris Smith wrote:
> > >> >On 20 Mar 2002, at 8:36, Richard Williamson wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> >> I'm not here anymore.  I left about six months ago in a purple
> > >> >> huff, and haven't been heard from since.  Investigations are
> > >> >> continuing...Foul play is expected.
> > >> >
> > >> >"Little does he know I've never played with a fowl in 
> my life..."
> > >> 
> > >> Why...are you chicken? 
> > >
> > >Don't get cocky, this list is no place for that kind of 
> poultry humour...
> > 
> > I'm impressed...this kid is showing some pluck...but I don't think
> > he'll be changing the pecking order, any.
> 
> Oh, look at you strutting around like a peacock, preening 
> your feathers. I've not seen a 
> more a pigeon-chested individual!
> 
> Come now, I was only larking around; everyone knows you're 
> the head rooster and I 
> wouldn't dream of trying to knock you off your perch. The 
> fact is that I hate 
> confrontations and, should a challenge arise, I'd more likely 
> take to wing, or bury my 
> head, ostrich-like, into the sand.
> 
> > So we are branching out into related areas/fields?  Are we doing
> > headgear are we sticking with birds... decisions, decisions.
> > Of course, we wouldn't want to get into something like the 
> > Hat-field /and/ Decoys.
> 
> That's a tricky question which, I think, should be brought 
> before the beak. But who will 
> act as magistrate and give us the benefit of their owl-like 
> wisdom? It is certainly not our 
> pigeon.
> 
> > (For those of you who missed it, the above is a reference to
> > a real interesting piece of American folklore.  See here:
> > http://userwww.service.emory.edu/~dmcco01/McCoy/diversion.html
> 
> And again, for those that missed it, my original response was 
> a reference to an episode 
> of The Goon Show entitled "The affair of the lone banana" 
> http://www.spidersweb.freeserve.co.uk/goons/scripts/Affair_of_the_Lone_Banana.htm

Chris



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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Chris Smith" <cjs94@zepler.org.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 18:01:57 -0000
Subject: Re: OT: For the Birds (was RE: I'm back.....)
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On 21 Mar 2002 at 1:48, David Pengelley wrote:

> Aren't you guys just beating a dead parrot? Although I'm sure you will
> try to convince me it's just resting.
> 
> Dave
> 
> And while people are missing references this is one to a Monty Python
> sketch (I'm not sure of a good hyperlink for it though - rip?)

Remarkable bird, the Norwegian Blue. Beautiful plumage.

I'm not rip, but: http://www.graphicszone.net/monty_python/scripts/Series_1/53.htm

Chris



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Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 15:38:08 EST
Subject: Re: OT Attack of the Clones.
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*** EOOH ***
From: Valheru22@aol.com
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 15:38:08 EST
Subject: Re: OT Attack of the Clones.
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In a message dated 3/19/2002 4:36:56 PM Pacific Standard Time, 
jajy@earthlink.net writes:


> He's not starting another argument, he is making a valid
> complaint.  He still has to pay to download the messages.  This is
> called common courtesy and don't post huge numbers of off topic
> material on this list when you know it is going to churn up
> excessive amounts of cost for some individuals.  This is part of the
> reasoning for limiting file sizes in html, excessive quoting, and
> the no binary rule (though that I understand also has to do with
> viruses).  Either way the posts that he quoted were not marked OT to
> begin with (and less than 1/3 of the messages on the topic are
> marked so anyway).
>     Furthermore this subject was THROWN from the list last time it
> came up by BOTH Ray and the ADMIN.  Regardless of whether or not a
> majority of us are starwars fans (I am not one), there are hundreds
> if not thousands of sites and lists you may join to get your daily
> fix of Starwars.  It did not need to come to this list, and if it
> was going to, all the post relating to it should have moved
> immediately off the list without a second thought.
>     Oh and Chance, putting an OT marker on it doesn't make it some
> how acceptable.  The OT marker is just for some of our filters, and
> is little more than a basic courtesy.  If one is not there, and you
> reply to it, PUT IT THERE if it is going to the list for some
> reason.
> 
>     I'll save some space here and say hello to Alan since he is back
> again.
> 
> -James (who is always on a soapbox...just depends on which one)
> 

Actually James the first message he did put OT first off so like one of the 
people said on here, "Don't say things you don't have the facts to." So 
before I even said this I checked to make sure and yes he did. I'm so sorry 
people pay for each message they receive. If they pay so much why even be on 
a list where some things will be started such as this. I am not trying to 
start anything although I am sure this will lead to more complaints. I am 
sorry about my postings I compared it to some things better left alone but I 
am younger then many people on here and unfortunately don't really think 
before I say things. For that I am sorry. But seriously it is pretty sad 
people pay for each e-mail received. So please excuse me for my OT posting 
and the ignorant comparisons in it. 
-Chance

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From: Valheru22@aol.com
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 15:42:36 EST
Subject: Re: OT about the Re: STAR WARS ATTACK of the CLONES
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In a message dated 3/20/2002 6:20:13 AM Pacific Standard Time, 
jajy@earthlink.net writes:


> Ray didn't start this thread, Julie did.
> 

Ray replied to the messages though without complaint.
-Chance

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From: RBlackley@aol.com
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 15:45:51 EST
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I agree that sometimes they are rude but I find the flames funny!
richard

In a message dated 3/17/2002 10:04:17 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
res0ibjw@verizon.net writes:


> I somewhat agree with Nevyn. I've come to the point of unsubscribing as 
> well, just because this mailing list seems excessively rude to anyone not 
> well known. Occasionally I wouldnt downloading a few messages that are OT, 
> but I know that for every OT message there is going to be a mass of 
> flames... cluttering my inbox more and taking up more bandwith (Which seem 
> to be the main arguments whenever an "OT Flame War" starts up) While this 
> hasn't quite been reason enough to leave (I seem to be rare in my ability 
> to skip past messages that dont interest me or delete them) it has 
> certainly kept me from replying on a number of occasions... (I've been on 
> the list for almost 2 years now.. lurking for almost all of it)
>  
> Just sharing my opinions here... dont mind me :-)
> 

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Subject: Re: OT: I'm back (for now)
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From: RBlackley@aol.com
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 15:56:20 EST
Subject: Re: OT: I'm back (for now)
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In a message dated 3/18/2002 5:51:03 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
amills1@bigpond.net.au writes:


> Well I'm back from my trip to the USA. Thankfully I didn't have any major
> problems like lost luggage or missing flights/buses. I was a bit surprised
> the first time I saw a couple of soldiers in one of the airports armed with
> M16s.
> 
> Thoughts and notes about my trip :
> 
> Sales taxes caught me by surprise since they are applied when you purchase
> the item and usually aren't included as part of the price. I dimly recalled
> hearing something about them once so I didn't get into an argument with the
> sales clerk. Is this just a marketing ploy or is there a legitimate reason
> why they don't apply tax beforehand? It's illegal to do that kind of thing
> in Australia.

Yes it is a ploy.

> 
> The cost of food had me very surprised. I'm not just talking about the food
> in theme parks but also places like IHOP and Denny's. I was paying much, if
> not more, in US dollars then I'd pay for the same in Australian dollars 
> down
> here. Anyone have any ideas why this is so? I will note though, most of the
> meals are very large. Normally I only had to have either lunch or dinner,
> not both.

Well I was in Australia this summer and the food seemed really cheap!  Makes 
sense.

> 
> One of the bus drivers I had was telling the passengers about how
> Disneyland usually starts making profits for the day after only 1/2 hour
> after opening. However someone else told me the government had to bail
> Disneyland out of bankruptcy a decade or more ago. Any idea which is
> correct?

no idea

> 
> When going on certain rides in the theme parks they often have noticeboards
> or announcements saying what you aren't allowed to do. The first weird one 
> I
> heard was when they said no using 2-way radios, I actually saw someone 
> using
> one at another park so that's fair enough I suppose. The other one that
> caught my attention was when they said not to use laser pointers. This was
> even a warning on a big wooden rollercoaster at Knott's Berry farm. I can't
> imagine why you'd want to use one on a rollercoaster.

that is because some people in america are weird

> 
> Anyway, I'll be spending the remaining two weeks of my holiday with my
> parents so I'll be back to this list full time after Easter.
> 
> Allan
> 

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I'm fifteen now but I have been reading Ray's books for 7 years.

In a message dated 3/19/2002 3:29:57 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
jeddasw@hotmail.com writes:


> good on you, somedude.  I would be happy to converse in other places as well 
> as this even though Ray is not interested....am glad you love Raymond's 
> books; new readers at your tender age are only to his credit as a brilliant 
> writer.
>  
> Rachel 
> 

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Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 16:02:01 EST
Subject: Re: Attack of the Clones.
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*** EOOH ***
From: RBlackley@aol.com
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 16:02:01 EST
Subject: Re: Attack of the Clones.
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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In a message dated 3/19/2002 5:00:50 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
rufo@bigwig.net writes:


> In article <155.ac5f8de.29c8f873@aol.com>, Valheru22@aol.com writes
> >Justin, it is still going to have everything such as the fights and etc. 
> and 
> >alot more, but Lucas has to show how Luke and Leia were concieved and how 
> >Anikan and her feel in love. So I mean you had to have seen it comming. 
> From 
> >what I have heard though there is going to be tons of fights and things 
> >because it also has to show the fight with the Jedi and Clones. From what 
> I 
> >heard there is a huge battle at the end. Bigger then any of the rest.
> >-Chance
> >
> 
> Jesus Guys, If I wanted off topic, I'd have stayed on the newsgroup. At
> least there I have the option NOT to download it.
> 
> Come on. Some of us don't give a damn what film's on where in the States
> ( or anywhere else for that matter ).
> 
> However, some of us DO still pay for our phone time whilst on line.

really?

> 
> 
> -- 
> *******
> Grandad Rufus.
> 
> It's not that I have a dirty mind, you understand.
> It's just that so many of my thoughts leave muddy little footprints...
> 

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Subject: Enough of Attack of the Clones already.
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Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 16:16:46 EST
Subject: Re: I'm back.....
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*** EOOH ***
From: RBlackley@aol.com
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 16:16:46 EST
Subject: Re: I'm back.....
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Ha ha ha ha, ah that was a wonderful five minutes, thanks rip you just 
brightend my day.

richard
ps. i'm serious not sarcastic.

In a message dated 3/20/2002 5:54:39 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
richard.williamson@windriver.com writes:


> 
> At 09:59 AM 3/20/02, Chris Smith wrote:
> >On 20 Mar 2002, at 8:36, Richard Williamson wrote:
> >
> >> I'm not here anymore.  I left about six months ago in a purple
> >> huff, and haven't been heard from since.  Investigations are
> >> continuing...Foul play is expected.
> >
> >"Little does he know I've never played with a fowl in my life..."
> 
> Why...are you chicken? 
> 
> *ducks*
> 
> rip
> 

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Subject: A Question for Mr. Feist
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From: Elvis11067@aol.com
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 18:26:03 EST
Subject: A Question for Mr. Feist
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

       This is a question directed primarily to Mr. Feist, but also to other 
writers or aspiring writers.  I read that you earned a B.A. in Communication 
Arts, and I was wondering how you thought that influenced your career as a 
writer.  I'm curious to know if that field was a help to you, or what other 
fields of study you wish you had taken courses in to further your writing.  
Thank you.  :)

T.S.

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From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: A Question for Mr. Feist
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From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: A Question for Mr. Feist
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

While I'm not a "fiction" writer, more so an academic, I can thoroughly
recommend the study of history.

It's extremely interesting, and IMOHO very good place to search for
suitable "subject material" for future novels.


>        This is a question directed primarily to Mr. Feist, but also to other
> writers or aspiring writers.  I read that you earned a B.A. in Communication
> Arts, and I was wondering how you thought that influenced your career as a
> writer.  I'm curious to know if that field was a help to you, or what other
> fields of study you wish you had taken courses in to further your writing.
> Thank you.  :)
>
> T.S.
>
>
>

Thanks
Darragh
-=-=
www.iamtheporkfireman.com
[Email]: s356179@student.uq.edu.au [ICQ]: 114283262



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This may sound really stupid, but was is IMOHO?  
  
----- Original Message -----
>From: Darragh Murray
>Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2002 11:18 AM
>To: FEISTFANS-L
>Subject: Re: A Question for Mr. Feist
>  
>While I'm not a "fiction" writer, more so an academic, I can thoroughly
>recommend the study of history.
>
>It's extremely interesting, and IMOHO very good place to search for
>suitable "subject material" for future novels.
>
>
>>        This is a question directed primarily to Mr. Feist, but also to other
>> writers or aspiring writers.  I read that you earned a B.A. in Communication
>> Arts, and I was wondering how you thought that influenced your career as a
>> writer.  I'm curious to know if that field was a help to you, or what other
>> fields of study you wish you had taken courses in to further your writing.
>> Thank you.  :)
>>
>> T.S.
>>
>>
>>
>
>Thanks
>Darragh
>-=-=
>www.iamtheporkfireman.com
>[Email]: s356179@student.uq.edu.au [ICQ]: 114283262
Get more from the Web.  FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com

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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: A Question for Mr. Feist
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 18:37:15 -0600
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

    It never hurts to study anything that might pertain to the story
you are writing, and that includes understanding of subjects of
biology, physics, geography, as well as things like history,
English, even such things as navigation, astronomy, or such.  The
more diverse you are as a person, the more you have to draw from
when writing about something.

-James  (who writes fiction and poetry for his own enjoyment, but
writes academically for publication).

----- Original Message -----
> While I'm not a "fiction" writer, more so an academic, I can thoroughly
> recommend the study of history.
>
> It's extremely interesting, and IMOHO very good place to search for
> suitable "subject material" for future novels.
>
>
> >        This is a question directed primarily to Mr. Feist, but also to other
> > writers or aspiring writers.  I read that you earned a B.A. in Communication
> > Arts, and I was wondering how you thought that influenced your career as a
> > writer.  I'm curious to know if that field was a help to you, or what other
> > fields of study you wish you had taken courses in to further your writing.
> > Thank you.  :)
> >
> > T.S.
> >
> >
> >
>
> Thanks
> Darragh
> -=-=
> www.iamtheporkfireman.com
> [Email]: s356179@student.uq.edu.au [ICQ]: 114283262
>



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From: "A Irving" <s355156@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: A Question for Mr. Feist
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 10:27:48 +1000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "A Irving" <s355156@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: A Question for Mr. Feist
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 10:27:48 +1000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

And helps you with trivia contest.

> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]
> While I'm not a "fiction" writer, more so an academic, I can thoroughly
> recommend the study of history.
> 
> It's extremely interesting, and IMOHO very good place to search for
> suitable "subject material" for future novels.
> 
> 
> >        This is a question directed primarily to Mr. Feist, but also to
> other
> > writers or aspiring writers.  I read that you earned a B.A. in
> Communication
> > Arts, and I was wondering how you thought that influenced your career as
> a
> > writer.  I'm curious to know if that field was a help to you, or what
> other
> > fields of study you wish you had taken courses in to further your
> writing.
> > Thank you.  :)
> >
> > T.S.
> Thanks
> Darragh
> -=-=
> www.iamtheporkfireman.com
> [Email]: s356179@student.uq.edu.au [ICQ]: 114283262

If you are going to write sci-fi, then I guess science would also help.
Studying Microbiology destroys a lot of the credential of stories,
unfortunately, when I read novels or see movies about certain things. I
can't help it, but often I sit there and pick out all the flaws in the
science of things involving genetics, or infectious diseases etc,
instead of just enjoying the book/movie.
CIAO,
     Aaron

http://www.hallofworlds.net/kerr/main.php
http://www.nightshadow.co.uk



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From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
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Subject: Re: A Question for Mr. Feist
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Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 10:40:15 +1000 (GMT+1000)
From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: A Question for Mr. Feist
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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In My Own Humble Opinion

> This may sound really stupid, but was is IMOHO?
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Darragh Murray
> Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2002 11:18 AM
> To: FEISTFANS-L
> Subject: Re: A Question for Mr. Feist
>
> While I'm not a "fiction" writer, more so an academic, I can thoroughly
> recommend the study of history.
>
> It's extremely interesting, and IMOHO very good place to search for
> suitable "subject material" for future novels.
>
>
> >        This is a question directed primarily to Mr. Feist, but also to other
> > writers or aspiring writers.  I read that you earned a B.A. in Communication
> > Arts, and I was wondering how you thought that influenced your career as a
> > writer.  I'm curious to know if that field was a help to you, or what other
> > fields of study you wish you had taken courses in to further your writing.
> > Thank you.  :)
> >
> > T.S.
> >
> >
> >
>
> Thanks
> Darragh
> -=-=
> www.iamtheporkfireman.com
> [Email]: s356179@student.uq.edu.au [ICQ]: 114283262Get more from the Web.  FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com
>

Thanks
Darragh
-=-=
www.iamtheporkfireman.com
[Email]: s356179@student.uq.edu.au [ICQ]: 114283262



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Subject: Re: A Question for Mr. Feist
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 00:43:05 +0000
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Al Burl <al.burl@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: Re: A Question for Mr. Feist
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I think it was supposed to be IMHO which is In My Humble Opinion. But I 
guess IMOHO could be In My Own Humble Opinion.

Al

At 11:34 21/03/2002 +1100, Rachel Unwin wrote:
>This may sound really stupid, but was is IMOHO?
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Darragh Murray
>Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2002 11:18 AM
>To: FEISTFANS-L
>Subject: Re: A Question for Mr. Feist
>
>While I'm not a "fiction" writer, more so an academic, I can thoroughly
>recommend the study of history.
>
>It's extremely interesting, and IMOHO very good place to search for
>suitable "subject material" for future novels.
>
>
>
> >        This is a question directed primarily to Mr. Feist, but also to 
> other
> > writers or aspiring writers.  I read that you earned a B.A. in 
> Communication
> > Arts, and I was wondering how you thought that influenced your career as a
> > writer.  I'm curious to know if that field was a help to you, or what 
> other
> > fields of study you wish you had taken courses in to further your writing.
> > Thank you.  :)
> >
> > T.S.
> >
> >
> >
>
>Thanks
>Darragh
>-=-=
>www.iamtheporkfireman.com
>[Email]: s356179@student.uq.edu.au [ICQ]: 114283262
>
>
>
>----------
>Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 17:00:47 -0800
From: Carl Dershem <dershem@cox.net>
Organization: Project Selene
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: A Question for Mr. Feist
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Elvis11067@aol.com wrote:
> 
>        This is a question directed primarily to Mr. Feist, but also to
> other writers or aspiring writers.  I read that you earned a B.A. in
> Communication Arts, and I was wondering how you thought that
> influenced your career as a writer.  I'm curious to know if that field
> was a help to you, or what other fields of study you wish you had
> taken courses in to further your writing.  Thank you.  :)
> 
>                                                                   T.S.

WHile I only have a few pieces of published fiction, I'd have to say
that the courses that have helped me more were those I took in
Psychology, History, Anthropology, and other subjects that gave me more
of an insight into the human condition, rather than the classes in the
technique of writing.

cd
-- 
Death to all Absolutists!



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Subject: Re: A Question for Mr. Feist
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 17:30:48 -0800
Subject: Re: A Question for Mr. Feist
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Wednesday, March 20, 2002, at 03:26 PM, Elvis11067@aol.com wrote:

>        This is a question directed primarily to Mr. Feist, but also to 
> other writers or aspiring writers.  I read that you earned a B.A. in 
> Communication Arts, and I was wondering how you thought that influenced 
> your career as a writer.  I'm curious to know if that field was a help 
> to you, or what other fields of study you wish you had taken courses in 
> to further your writing.  Thank you.  :)
>
>

Let me get something straight.  I didn't major in Communications so I 
could become a writer.  I majored in it because I was heading into a 
management area in Health and Human Services/Education.

Anything that makes you think is good.  Anything that makes you write is 
good.

Some of it will be impacted by what your interests are, but in the main, 
study a lot of different stuff if you want to be a writer.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.

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From: "John Jeffries" <johncjeffries@hotmail.com>
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Subject: OT Attack of the Clones
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 01:35:11 +0000
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Subject: OT Attack of the Clones
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Now I saw the trailer, and thought that it looked pretty good, although I'm 
a diehard Star Wars fan, saw the first release at the locxat move 
house...thanks for the insight too REF, looking forward to it.

John

_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com



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From: Andrea J Chee <andrea@bloodaxe.com>
Subject: Re: A Question for Mr. Feist
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 01:55:22 +0000
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Andrea J Chee <andrea@bloodaxe.com>
Subject: Re: A Question for Mr. Feist
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In article <6f.2468699f.29ca748b@aol.com>, Elvis11067@aol.com writes
>           This is a question directed primarily to Mr. Feist, but also 
>    to other writers or aspiring writers.  I read that you earned a 
>    B.A. in Communication Arts, and I was wondering how you thought 
>    that influenced your career as a writer.  I'm curious to know if 
>    that field was a help to you, or what other fields of study you 
>    wish you had taken courses in to further your writing.  Thank you.  
>    :)

I've never done a writing/comms/media course in my life, beyond the
story writing we did as kids in school.

In my line of work, it's more important to have a broad range of
knowledge and skills (which may well mean a variety of qualifications),
plenty of experience in anything and everything, and enough self-
discipline to develop and maintain the necessary writing and business
skills. I have everything from a qualification in Veterinary Nursing to
an honours degree in History. 

Although I started sending off ideas to newspapers when I was about 12,
and have done staff writing jobs on and off ever since I left school at
17, there have also been many times when I didn't write for years. Doing
other things has given me much to write about, and a broad base from
which to research those things I don't know much about. Nothing I've
learned has ever been wasted.

Most clients don't hire freelancers based on their qualifications, but
on their previous published work.

These days I work full-time for myself. Many of my clients don't know
what qualifications I have - they got my name from other clients. Even
in these tough times, I have more work sometimes than I know what to do
with. Clients expect that I'll give them what they want, when they want
it, in the style and language they want, and written to a standard that
won't require excessive editing. That's what I'm selling, not the
qualifications. And (speaking from experience as an editor) you'd be
surprised how many hopeful freelancers forget the importance of these
basics when they're waving their journalism degrees under your nose.

- ANDREA <freelance journalist and editor>

-- 
^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^
                  ANDROMEDA - Internet Goddess
<andrea@bloodaxe.com>                    http://www.bloodaxe.com/
Bloodaxe's History Links:   http://www.geocities.com/Athens/5055/
The Loony Bin Archive:               http://www.theloonies.co.uk/



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From: Tim Nicholas <tim@nicholas.net.nz>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT: Warranties
Message-ID: <20020321101118.GA10374@nicholas.net.nz>
References: <20020226161338.21108.qmail@web10406.mail.yahoo.com> <002401c1bee6$ae712250$c7df0ccb@vaio> <00f101c1cece$46620ba0$2f01a8c0@allans> <3C98053A.2050502@alliances.org> <E16ndU5-0000vx-00@athene> <002001c1d001$7ce239f0$ee63a1ca@alexloke> <20020320121431.GA9074@nicholas.net.nz> <000701c1d016$6d26c5c0$3d0dd5cb@elcapitan>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 22:11:18 +1200
From: Tim Nicholas <tim@nicholas.net.nz>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT: Warranties
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On Thu, Mar 21, 2002 at 12:52:03AM +1100, James Barker wrote:
> Chances are that was something to do with the removal or
> backwards-engineering (not the right word, but it's 12:45, gimme a break
> *grin*) of components on the card. Most electronic warranties are voided if
> the owner attempts to take things apart.
> 

Indeed. I am sure that was the purpose of it, but none the less, on
a first glance, it was ambigiously enough worded to be humorous.



> <non-flame rant, so please don't take offence>
> 
> As far as I'm concerned, this is fair enough. It's unrealistic in the
> extreme to expect a manufacturer to pander to customers who refuse to follow
> instructions with obvious logic behind them. A recent example of this was
> the Game Boy Advance... Although I'm not sure of the specifics, some
> mod-chip-style device caused the Nintendo tech-support guys a lot of
> hassles, because consumers were taking apart their game boys (which, I
> believe, had "Opening will void warranty" or something similar on them
> somewhere), fiddling with wires, and then complaining when the durn thing
> decided not to work.
> 
> </rant>

Indeed. I know people who break things by not following instuctions,
or not using them in the proper way, and then clame warranty. It
seems a bit low to me. I'm inclined to accept that if I broke
somthing (and it was my fault) then I should pay for it.


> 
> Of course, I may well have the entire incident muddled. Like I said, it's
> 12:45, and I'm trying to write a Year 12 english essay for nine o'clock
> tomorrow (and the 5% penalty for handing it in at the end of the day is
> looking mighty reasonable right about now *grin*)

I've been there so many times. I know exactly what you mean. 'V'[1]
is an excellent invention.

> 
> Cheers,
> James
> 
> 

[1] V is an energy drink here in New Zealand. I believe that you can
get it overseas now too.

-- 
Tim Nicholas                          ||                      Cilix
Email: tim@nicholas.net.nz            ||       Dunedin, New Zealand
http://tim.nicholas.net.nz/           ||  Cell/SMS: +64 21 113 0399
"Grow up, Larry. You give me too much credit." - Linus Torvalds



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Subject: Re: OT: Warranties
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Barker" <heechee@softhome.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT: Warranties
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 21:55:29 +1100
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Nicholas" <tim@nicholas.net.nz>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2002 9:11 PM
Subject: Re: OT: Warranties

> I've been there so many times. I know exactly what you mean. 'V'[1]
> is an excellent invention.
>
> [1] V is an energy drink here in New Zealand. I believe that you can
> get it overseas now too.

Damn straight we can... My personal favourite is Black Stallion, which (the
last time I was over there, in late 2000) cost less in Kiwi dollars per can
than it did in Australian dollars.

Cheers,
James



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From: Tim Nicholas <tim@nicholas.net.nz>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT: Warranties
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 23:58:25 +1200
From: Tim Nicholas <tim@nicholas.net.nz>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT: Warranties
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Heh... joys of being a local market I guess... V is normally about $2
per can, or 2.80-3.00 for a bottle.

On Thu, Mar 21, 2002 at 09:55:29PM +1100, James Barker wrote:
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tim Nicholas" <tim@nicholas.net.nz>
> To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2002 9:11 PM
> Subject: Re: OT: Warranties
> 
> > I've been there so many times. I know exactly what you mean. 'V'[1]
> > is an excellent invention.
> >
> > [1] V is an energy drink here in New Zealand. I believe that you can
> > get it overseas now too.
> 
> Damn straight we can... My personal favourite is Black Stallion, which (the
> last time I was over there, in late 2000) cost less in Kiwi dollars per can
> than it did in Australian dollars.
> 
> Cheers,
> James
> 
> 

-- 
Tim Nicholas                          ||                      Cilix
Email: tim@nicholas.net.nz            ||       Dunedin, New Zealand
http://tim.nicholas.net.nz/           ||  Cell/SMS: +64 21 113 0399
"Grow up, Larry. You give me too much credit." - Linus Torvalds



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To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
References: <20020226161338.21108.qmail@web10406.mail.yahoo.com> <002401c1bee6$ae712250$c7df0ccb@vaio> <00f101c1cece$46620ba0$2f01a8c0@allans> <3C98053A.2050502@alliances.org> <E16ndU5-0000vx-00@athene> <002001c1d001$7ce239f0$ee63a1ca@alexloke> <20020320121431.GA9074@nicholas.net.nz> <000701c1d016$6d26c5c0$3d0dd5cb@elcapitan> <20020321101118.GA10374@nicholas.net.nz> <000e01c1d0c6$ec818de0$8b0dd5cb@elcapitan>
Subject: Re: OT: Warranties
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 00:16:56 +1000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "A Gnome" <nightshadow@froggy.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT: Warranties
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 00:16:56 +1000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I bought one today for $1.38 :) but I prefer Smart Drink ( a NZ invention)
but that is no longer available. Red EYE platinum isn't bad and I also like
[Ikon].
----- Original Message -----
From: "James Barker" <heechee@softhome.net>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2002 8:55 PM
Subject: Re: OT: Warranties


>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tim Nicholas" <tim@nicholas.net.nz>
> To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2002 9:11 PM
> Subject: Re: OT: Warranties
>
> > I've been there so many times. I know exactly what you mean. 'V'[1]
> > is an excellent invention.
> >
> > [1] V is an energy drink here in New Zealand. I believe that you can
> > get it overseas now too.
>
> Damn straight we can... My personal favourite is Black Stallion, which (the
> last time I was over there, in late 2000) cost less in Kiwi dollars per can
> than it did in Australian dollars.
>
> Cheers,
> James
>



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Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 10:46:56 EST
Subject: Re: OT: Warranties
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*** EOOH ***
From: JEEPMONSTER69@aol.com
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 10:46:56 EST
Subject: Re: OT: Warranties
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

In a message dated 3/21/2002 6:23:54 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
heechee@softhome.net writes:


> Damn straight we can... My personal favourite is Black Stallion, which (the
> last time I was over there, in late 2000) cost less in Kiwi dollars per can
> than it did in Australian dollars.
> 
> Cheers,
> 

Im sorry, but Red Bull is my preferred massive-heart-attack-level energy 
drink :-)

                                                       Peace,
                                                             Matt
"This is not Nam. There are rules here."- Walter Sobchak

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From: "Donal K. Fellows" <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk>
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Donal K. Fellows" <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT: Warranties
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 16:08:01 +0000
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JEEPMONSTER69@aol.com
> Im sorry, but Red Bull is my preferred massive-heart-attack-level energy 
> drink :-)

I've always been more in favour of lethargy drinks myself.  <eg>

Donal.
-- 
Donal K. Fellows, Department of Computer Science, University of Manchester, UK.
(work) fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk     Tel: +44-161-275-6137  (preferred email addr.)
(home) donal@ugglan.demon.co.uk  Tel: +44-1274-401017   Mobile: +44-7957-298955
http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~fellowsd/  (Don't quote my .sig; I've seen it before!)



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From: "Justin" <justin.carew@ntlworld.com>
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Subject: the dead
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 17:51:51 -0000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Justin" <justin.carew@ntlworld.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: the dead
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 17:51:51 -0000
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have you ever noticed in the serpentwar
saga that it says that tyndal was the
first dead guy that Eric had seen, well
what about the guy who froze in the
mountains when Eric and roo were 8.
Also, I remember Eric saying how he felt
when Milo died, even though he meant
tyndal.

Justin (can't be bothered with a quote)

PS you could make up your own quote and
call it a sig. And try not to start a
whole big thing about sigs which
probably you won't, but its just a
precaution.



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From: "Andy Holcombe" <andy_wan_kenobi@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Talon of the Silver Hawk
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*** EOOH ***
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From: "Andy Holcombe" <andy_wan_kenobi@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Talon of the Silver Hawk
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 13:59:54 -0600
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Is Talon of the Silver Hawk going to be distributed in the US or will we 
have to buy from the UK like Honoured Enemy and Murder in LaMut?  Thanks.

Andy Holcombe
Andy_wan_Kenobi@hotmail.com

"To err is human, but to really foul things up requires a computer."
     -Farmers' Almanac 1978

"I don't give a damn for a man who can only spell a word one way."
     -Mark Twain

"History will be kind to me, for I intend to write it."
     -Winston Churchill

Andy Holcombe
Andy_wan_Kenobi@hotmail.com

"To err is human, but to really foul things up requires a computer."
     -Farmers' Almanac 1978

"I don't give a damn for a man who can only spell a word one way."
     -Mark Twain

"History will be kind to me, for I intend to write it."
     -Winston Churchill

_________________________________________________________________
Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
http://www.hotmail.com



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 13:27:40 -0800
Subject: Re: Talon of the Silver Hawk
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On Thursday, March 21, 2002, at 11:59 AM, Andy Holcombe wrote:

> Is Talon of the Silver Hawk going to be distributed in the US or will 
> we have to buy from the UK like Honoured Enemy and Murder in LaMut?  
> Thanks.
>
>

Talon will be available in the US in Spring of '03.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 17:02:57 EST
Subject: Re: the dead
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*** EOOH ***
From: JEEPMONSTER69@aol.com
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 17:02:57 EST
Subject: Re: the dead
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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In a message dated 3/21/2002 1:10:08 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
justin.carew@ntlworld.com writes:


> have you ever noticed in the serpentwar
> saga that it says that tyndal was the
> first dead guy that Eric had seen, well
> what about the guy who froze in the
> mountains when Eric and roo were 8.
> Also, I remember Eric saying how he felt
> when Milo died, even though he meant
> tyndal.
> 
> Justin (can't be bothered with a quote)
> 
> PS you could make up your own quote and
> call it a sig. And try not to start a
> whole big thing about sigs which
> probably you won't, but its just a
> precaution.
> 

Well, my best explanantion for that is something that the editor didnt pick 
up, or maybe something Ray didnt pick up.

                                                 Peace,
                                                             Matt
"Lets Roll."- Todd Beamer
USA, Muthafacko!

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Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 17:32:26 EST
Subject: Re: Talon of the Silver Hawk
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
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*** EOOH ***
From: Elvis11067@aol.com
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 17:32:26 EST
Subject: Re: Talon of the Silver Hawk
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
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> Is Talon of the Silver Hawk going to be distributed in the US or will
> we have to buy from the UK like Honoured Enemy and Murder in LaMut? 
> Thanks.


Are Murder in LaMut and Honoured enemy scheduled to come to the US also?



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From: "David P. Rouse" <viperphi@ezaccess.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Talon of the Silver Hawk
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 18:21:44 -0500
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*** EOOH ***
From: "David P. Rouse" <viperphi@ezaccess.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Talon of the Silver Hawk
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 18:21:44 -0500
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Or you can just order it from the UK or Australia. I am in Pennsylvania
and it took Amazon UK 5 days to ship Honoured Enemy to my address. I
also pre-ordered Talon. The Royal Mail shipping charges were less than
what I would have paid in the States.

I had too much anticipation built up to wait for any releases here. 

Sincerely, 

David

-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Raymond Feist
>Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2002 4:28 PM
>To: FEISTFANS-L
>Subject: Re: Talon of the Silver Hawk
>
>
>On Thursday, March 21, 2002, at 11:59 AM, Andy Holcombe wrote:
>
>> Is Talon of the Silver Hawk going to be distributed in the US or will 
>> we have to buy from the UK like Honoured Enemy and Murder in LaMut?  
>> Thanks.
>>
>>
>
>Talon will be available in the US in Spring of '03.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
>stupidity.
>
---
[This E-mail scanned for viruses by IAS, an Archiventure Company]





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From: "Andy Holcombe" <andy_wan_kenobi@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Talon of the Silver Hawk
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 17:22:05 -0600
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From: "Andy Holcombe" <andy_wan_kenobi@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Talon of the Silver Hawk
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 17:22:05 -0600
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>From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>

>Talon will be available in the US in Spring of '03.
>
Thank you.

Andy Holcombe
Andy_wan_Kenobi@hotmail.com

"To err is human, but to really foul things up requires a computer."
     -Farmers' Almanac 1978

"I don't give a damn for a man who can only spell a word one way."
     -Mark Twain

"History will be kind to me, for I intend to write it."
     -Winston Churchill

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.



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From: Reidar Høyem <reidar.hoyem@c2i.net>
To: "Feistlist" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Scotch...
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 15:37:05 +0100
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*** EOOH ***
From: Reidar Høyem <reidar.hoyem@c2i.net>
To: "Feistlist" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Scotch...
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 15:37:05 +0100
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Ray, what is your favorite Whiskey?
I enjoy most every Single Malt out there. But there are one or two blended
ones that will find it's way, shall I dare say, "down the hatch"!

Reidar
Oslo, Norway


-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Raymond Feist
>Sent: 20. mars 2002 17:19
>To: FEISTFANS-L
>Subject: Re: OT about the Re: STAR WARS ATTACK of the CLONES
>
>
>
>On Wednesday, March 20, 2002, at 07:21 AM, Terri Lyn Layman wrote:
>
>> Hate to break it to you, but wine is not distilled.
>>
>> It's fermented.
>>
>> So is beer.
>>
>> -TerriLyn
>>
>
>By "other distilled beverages," he meant a discussion we had on why Ray
>like's scotch.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>
>----
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
>stupidity.

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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 07:52:47 -0800
Subject: Re: Scotch...
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Friday, March 22, 2002, at 06:37 AM, Reidar Høyem wrote:

> Ray, what is your favorite Whiskey?
> I enjoy most every Single Malt out there. But there are one or two 
> blended
> ones that will find it's way, shall I dare say, "down the hatch"!
>

Every one?  Man, there are some dark, smoky monsters out there that I 
can barely get past my nose.

My day-to-day scotch is Glennfiddech.  I also enjoy Oban, Talisker, 
Glenmorrange, Glenfarklas, and a few others.  If I hit a bar with no 
single malts, I tend to drink Chevas.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Subject: Re: Scotch...
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Andrew" <abizet@woh.rr.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Scotch...
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 11:33:17 -0500
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"Give me one bourben, one shot and one beer."

----- Original Message -----
From: "Reidar Høyem" <reidar.hoyem@c2i.net>
To: "Feistlist (FEISTFANS-L)" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Friday, March 22, 2002 9:37 AM
Subject: Scotch...


> Ray, what is your favorite Whiskey?
> I enjoy most every Single Malt out there. But there are one or two blended
> ones that will find it's way, shall I dare say, "down the hatch"!
>
> Reidar
> Oslo, Norway
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Raymond Feist
> Sent: 20. mars 2002 17:19
> To: FEISTFANS-L
> Subject: Re: OT about the Re: STAR WARS ATTACK of the CLONES
>
>
>
> On Wednesday, March 20, 2002, at 07:21 AM, Terri Lyn Layman wrote:
>
> > Hate to break it to you, but wine is not distilled.
> >
> > It's fermented.
> >
> > So is beer.
> >
> > -TerriLyn
> >
>
> By "other distilled beverages," he meant a discussion we had on why Ray
> like's scotch.
>
> Best, R.E.F.
>
> ----
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
> stupidity.
>
>



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Subject: RE: OT:  Scotch...
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 11:55:18 -0500
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*** EOOH ***
content-class: urn:content-classes:message
Subject: RE: OT:  Scotch...
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 11:55:18 -0500
Thread-Topic: Scotch...
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From: "Donges, William E.,, III" <wdonges@lhup.edu>
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I tend to agree. I like Glenfiddich and Glenmorrange. I also like Glen Livet.  But there
are some single malts out there that make me gag. I once had an Islay that tasted
like burnt wood and dirt. It was costly stuff too...

Chevas is decent, I can stomach Inver House even... 
but I tend to frown at blended even though many people feel that its just
single malt conceit there is to mind clearly a difference.

Falerin


On Friday, March 22, 2002, at 06:37 AM, Reidar Høyem wrote:
>
>> Ray, what is your favorite Whiskey?
>> I enjoy most every Single Malt out there. But there are one or two 
>> blended
>> ones that will find it's way, shall I dare say, "down the hatch"!
>>
>
>Every one?  Man, there are some dark, smoky monsters out there that I 
>can barely get past my nose.
>
>My day-to-day scotch is Glennfiddech.  I also enjoy Oban, Talisker, 
>Glenmorrange, Glenfarklas, and a few others.  If I hit a bar with no 
>single malts, I tend to drink Chevas.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
>stupidity.
>


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From: Reidar Høyem <reidar.hoyem@c2i.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Scotch...
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 21:55:26 +0100
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*** EOOH ***
From: Reidar Høyem <reidar.hoyem@c2i.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Scotch...
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 21:55:26 +0100
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Well, there are some "someked monsters" alternatives that makes you wonder
if it would kill of all the weeds in the garden (and all else for that
matter...)!
It makes me wonder if it was at all intended for a mere mortal to drink?

Of the blended wiskeys, have you tried Upper Ten? It has one or two Gold
medals from different "competittions" around the world. It is "made" in
Norway, by the way...
For my absolute favorit I would have to say Glenmorangie 18 or 21 yrs. I've
also had the honour of tasting the legendary Bowmore 40 yrs. (In Norway it
would cost around 5000$ pr. bottle!!!)


As they say in Scotland: Sláinthe Mhath!


Reidar




-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Raymond Feist
>Sent: 22. mars 2002 16:53
>To: FEISTFANS-L
>Subject: Re: Scotch...
>
>
>
>On Friday, March 22, 2002, at 06:37 AM, Reidar Høyem wrote:
>
>> Ray, what is your favorite Whiskey?
>> I enjoy most every Single Malt out there. But there are one or two
>> blended
>> ones that will find it's way, shall I dare say, "down the hatch"!
>>
>
>Every one?  Man, there are some dark, smoky monsters out there that I
>can barely get past my nose.
>
>My day-to-day scotch is Glennfiddech.  I also enjoy Oban, Talisker,
>Glenmorrange, Glenfarklas, and a few others.  If I hit a bar with no
>single malts, I tend to drink Chevas.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
>stupidity.
>


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From: Reidar Høyem <reidar.hoyem@c2i.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Scotch...
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 22:22:14 +0100
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*** EOOH ***
From: Reidar Høyem <reidar.hoyem@c2i.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Scotch...
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 22:22:14 +0100
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Sorry about the typo! It is Glenmorrange and NOT Glenmorangie!

Reidar


-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Reidar Høyem
>Sent: 22. mars 2002 21:55
>To: FEISTFANS-L
>Subject: RE: Scotch...
>
>
>Well, there are some "someked monsters" alternatives that makes you wonder
>if it would kill of all the weeds in the garden (and all else for that
>matter...)!
>It makes me wonder if it was at all intended for a mere mortal to drink?
>
>Of the blended wiskeys, have you tried Upper Ten? It has one or two Gold
>medals from different "competittions" around the world. It is "made" in
>Norway, by the way...
>For my absolute favorit I would have to say Glenmorangie 18 or 21 yrs. I've
>also had the honour of tasting the legendary Bowmore 40 yrs. (In Norway it
>would cost around 5000$ pr. bottle!!!)
>
>
>As they say in Scotland: Sláinthe Mhath!
>
>
>Reidar
>
>
>
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Raymond Feist
>>Sent: 22. mars 2002 16:53
>>To: FEISTFANS-L
>>Subject: Re: Scotch...
>>
>>
>>
>>On Friday, March 22, 2002, at 06:37 AM, Reidar Høyem wrote:
>>
>>> Ray, what is your favorite Whiskey?
>>> I enjoy most every Single Malt out there. But there are one or two
>>> blended
>>> ones that will find it's way, shall I dare say, "down the hatch"!
>>>
>>
>>Every one?  Man, there are some dark, smoky monsters out there that I
>>can barely get past my nose.
>>
>>My day-to-day scotch is Glennfiddech.  I also enjoy Oban, Talisker,
>>Glenmorrange, Glenfarklas, and a few others.  If I hit a bar with no
>>single malts, I tend to drink Chevas.
>>
>>Best, R.E.F.
>>----
>>
>>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
>>stupidity.
>>


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Subject: Re: Scotch...
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 19:04:50 -0800
Subject: Re: Scotch...
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Friday, March 22, 2002, at 12:55 PM, Reidar Høyem wrote:

> Well, there are some "someked monsters" alternatives that makes you 
> wonder
> if it would kill of all the weeds in the garden (and all else for that
> matter...)!
> It makes me wonder if it was at all intended for a mere mortal to drink?
>
> Of the blended wiskeys, have you tried Upper Ten? It has one or two Gold
> medals from different "competittions" around the world. It is "made" in
> Norway, by the way...
> For my absolute favorit I would have to say Glenmorangie 18 or 21 yrs. 
> I've
> also had the honour of tasting the legendary Bowmore 40 yrs. (In Norway 
> it
> would cost around 5000$ pr. bottle!!!)

I'm envious.  Only three restaurants in North America (one in New York, 
one in Toronto, one in Orlando) sell it by the glass.  Between $650 to 
$800 per.  I hear it's unique in character.  If I ever win the Lotto 
I'll buy a bottle.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Subject: Re: Scotch...
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Andrew" <abizet@woh.rr.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Scotch...
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 23:42:28 -0500
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I have never heard of it. If it sells for that it has to be great. I would
hope it has the power to knock me on my carcass.

----- Original Message -----
>From: "Raymond Feist" <raymond@bittersea.com>
>To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
>Sent: Friday, March 22, 2002 10:04 PM
>Subject: Re: Scotch...
>
>
>
>On Friday, March 22, 2002, at 12:55 PM, Reidar Høyem wrote:
>
>> Well, there are some "someked monsters" alternatives that makes you
>> wonder
>> if it would kill of all the weeds in the garden (and all else for that
>> matter...)!
>> It makes me wonder if it was at all intended for a mere mortal to drink?
>>
>> Of the blended wiskeys, have you tried Upper Ten? It has one or two Gold
>> medals from different "competittions" around the world. It is "made" in
>> Norway, by the way...
>> For my absolute favorit I would have to say Glenmorangie 18 or 21 yrs.
>> I've
>> also had the honour of tasting the legendary Bowmore 40 yrs. (In Norway
>> it
>> would cost around 5000$ pr. bottle!!!)
>
>I'm envious.  Only three restaurants in North America (one in New York,
>one in Toronto, one in Orlando) sell it by the glass.  Between $650 to
>$800 per.  I hear it's unique in character.  If I ever win the Lotto
>I'll buy a bottle.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
>stupidity.
>



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*** EOOH ***
From: JEEPMONSTER69@aol.com
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 23:50:47 EST
Subject: Re: Scotch...
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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In a message dated 3/22/2002 11:49:38 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
abizet@woh.rr.com writes:


> I have never heard of it. If it sells for that it has to be great. I would
> hope it has the power to knock me on my carcass.
> 

Yeah, but then again, so will Thunderbird or King Cobra <G>.

                                                 Peace,
                                                             Matt 
"Lets Roll."- Todd Beamer
USA, Muthafacko!

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Subject: Re: Scotch...
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Nicholas Fliess" <oldnick@spectraweb.ch>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Scotch...
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 06:24:58 +0100
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

It's not a typo, have a look at http://www.glenmorangie.com/

Regards

Nicholas


> Sorry about the typo! It is Glenmorrange and NOT Glenmorangie!
>
> Reidar
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Reidar Høyem
> Sent: 22. mars 2002 21:55
> To: FEISTFANS-L
> Subject: RE: Scotch...
>
>
> Well, there are some "someked monsters" alternatives that makes you wonder
> if it would kill of all the weeds in the garden (and all else for that
> matter...)!
> It makes me wonder if it was at all intended for a mere mortal to drink?
>
> Of the blended wiskeys, have you tried Upper Ten? It has one or two Gold
> medals from different "competittions" around the world. It is "made" in
> Norway, by the way...
> For my absolute favorit I would have to say Glenmorangie 18 or 21 yrs. I've
> also had the honour of tasting the legendary Bowmore 40 yrs. (In Norway it
> would cost around 5000$ pr. bottle!!!)
>
>
> As they say in Scotland: Sláinthe Mhath!
>
>
> Reidar
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Raymond Feist
> Sent: 22. mars 2002 16:53
> To: FEISTFANS-L
> Subject: Re: Scotch...
>
>
>
> On Friday, March 22, 2002, at 06:37 AM, Reidar Høyem wrote:
>
> > Ray, what is your favorite Whiskey?
> > I enjoy most every Single Malt out there. But there are one or two
> > blended
> > ones that will find it's way, shall I dare say, "down the hatch"!
> >
>
> Every one?  Man, there are some dark, smoky monsters out there that I
> can barely get past my nose.
>
> My day-to-day scotch is Glennfiddech.  I also enjoy Oban, Talisker,
> Glenmorrange, Glenfarklas, and a few others.  If I hit a bar with no
> single malts, I tend to drink Chevas.
>
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
>
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
> stupidity.
>
>



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Subject: RE: Scotch...
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 01:45:45 -0500
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*** EOOH ***
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: "Joshua Slavkin" <j_solo_2000@yahoo.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Scotch...
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 01:45:45 -0500
X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at fep04-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com from [24.100.216.52] using ID <joshslavkin@rogers.com> at Sat, 23 Mar 2002 01:45:41 -0500
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Ray,

Do you happen to know which restaurant in Toronto?

Josh

-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Raymond Feist
>Sent: Friday, March 22, 2002 10:05 PM
>To: FEISTFANS-L
>Subject: Re: Scotch...
>
>
>
>On Friday, March 22, 2002, at 12:55 PM, Reidar Høyem wrote:
>
>> Well, there are some "someked monsters" alternatives that makes you
>> wonder
>> if it would kill of all the weeds in the garden (and all else for that
>> matter...)!
>> It makes me wonder if it was at all intended for a mere mortal to
>drink?
>>
>> Of the blended wiskeys, have you tried Upper Ten? It has one or two 
>> Gold medals from different "competittions" around the world. It is 
>> "made" in Norway, by the way... For my absolute favorit I would have 
>> to say Glenmorangie 18 or 21 yrs. I've
>> also had the honour of tasting the legendary Bowmore 40 yrs. (In
>Norway 
>> it
>> would cost around 5000$ pr. bottle!!!)
>
>I'm envious.  Only three restaurants in North America (one in New York, 
>one in Toronto, one in Orlando) sell it by the glass.  Between $650 to 
>$800 per.  I hear it's unique in character.  If I ever win the Lotto 
>I'll buy a bottle.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
>stupidity.
>


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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 00:16:06 -0800
Subject: Re: Scotch...
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Friday, March 22, 2002, at 10:45 PM, Joshua Slavkin wrote:

> Ray,
>
> Do you happen to know which restaurant in Toronto?
>
> Josh
>

No.  But I imagine a little web search on the subject would turn it up.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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From: Reidar Høyem <reidar.hoyem@c2i.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Scotch...
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 14:24:04 +0100
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*** EOOH ***
From: Reidar Høyem <reidar.hoyem@c2i.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Scotch...
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 14:24:04 +0100
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Thanks! Boosted my confidence a bit :)

About the Bowmore 40, I have something to add:

I worked for 2 yrs. at a company that imported wine & spirits into Norway.
(There was a monopoly at that time...) So I was lucky enough to taste a lot
of rare an fairly expensive stuff.
And the Bowmore 40 is the most complex and amazing thing I've ever had the
pleasure of tasting! Still on a day-to-day basis, I will choose Dalwhinnie
15 yrs. A Single Highland Malt Whiskey. I would recommend it. It's not even
that expensive. (Well, all is expensive here in Norway! Beer, wine and
spirits are heavily taxed. A bottle of (70 cl.) Dalwhinnie 15 yrs. Costs
around 40 US $ (450 NOK (Norwegian Kroners)). So any TAX-FREE zone is
visited with great joy!



Reidar




-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Nicholas Fliess
>Sent: 23. mars 2002 06:25
>To: FEISTFANS-L
>Subject: Re: Scotch...
>
>
>It's not a typo, have a look at http://www.glenmorangie.com/
>
>Regards
>
>Nicholas
>
>
>> Sorry about the typo! It is Glenmorrange and NOT Glenmorangie!
>>
>> Reidar
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Reidar Høyem
>> Sent: 22. mars 2002 21:55
>> To: FEISTFANS-L
>> Subject: RE: Scotch...
>>
>>
>> Well, there are some "someked monsters" alternatives that makes you wonder
>> if it would kill of all the weeds in the garden (and all else for that
>> matter...)!
>> It makes me wonder if it was at all intended for a mere mortal to drink?
>>
>> Of the blended wiskeys, have you tried Upper Ten? It has one or two Gold
>> medals from different "competittions" around the world. It is "made" in
>> Norway, by the way...
>> For my absolute favorit I would have to say Glenmorangie 18 or 21 yrs.
>I've
>> also had the honour of tasting the legendary Bowmore 40 yrs. (In Norway it
>> would cost around 5000$ pr. bottle!!!)
>>
>>
>> As they say in Scotland: Sláinthe Mhath!
>>
>>
>> Reidar
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Raymond Feist
>> Sent: 22. mars 2002 16:53
>> To: FEISTFANS-L
>> Subject: Re: Scotch...
>>
>>
>>
>> On Friday, March 22, 2002, at 06:37 AM, Reidar Høyem wrote:
>>
>> > Ray, what is your favorite Whiskey?
>> > I enjoy most every Single Malt out there. But there are one or two
>> > blended
>> > ones that will find it's way, shall I dare say, "down the hatch"!
>> >
>>
>> Every one?  Man, there are some dark, smoky monsters out there that I
>> can barely get past my nose.
>>
>> My day-to-day scotch is Glennfiddech.  I also enjoy Oban, Talisker,
>> Glenmorrange, Glenfarklas, and a few others.  If I hit a bar with no
>> single malts, I tend to drink Chevas.
>>
>> Best, R.E.F.
>> ----
>>
>> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
>> stupidity.

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From: Dun Xiahou <xiahoudun13@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Scotch...
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 08:31:40 -0800 (PST)
From: Dun Xiahou <xiahoudun13@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Scotch...
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

If you want to be knocked flat, just drink some
Everclear.  It's 90% pure ethanol meant for chemistry
use and not for consumption.  Although college
students regularly violate that little rule everyday.

- Xiahou Dun

--- Andrew <abizet@woh.rr.com> wrote:
> I have never heard of it. If it sells for that it
> has to be great. I would
> hope it has the power to knock me on my carcass.
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Raymond Feist" <raymond@bittersea.com>
> To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> Sent: Friday, March 22, 2002 10:04 PM
> Subject: Re: Scotch...
> 
> 
> 
> On Friday, March 22, 2002, at 12:55 PM, Reidar Høyem
> wrote:
> 
> > Well, there are some "someked monsters"
> alternatives that makes you
> > wonder
> > if it would kill of all the weeds in the garden
> (and all else for that
> > matter...)!
> > It makes me wonder if it was at all intended for a
> mere mortal to drink?
> >
> > Of the blended wiskeys, have you tried Upper Ten?
> It has one or two Gold
> > medals from different "competittions" around the
> world. It is "made" in
> > Norway, by the way...
> > For my absolute favorit I would have to say
> Glenmorangie 18 or 21 yrs.
> > I've
> > also had the honour of tasting the legendary
> Bowmore 40 yrs. (In Norway
> > it
> > would cost around 5000$ pr. bottle!!!)
> 
> I'm envious.  Only three restaurants in North
> America (one in New York,
> one in Toronto, one in Orlando) sell it by the
> glass.  Between $650 to
> $800 per.  I hear it's unique in character.  If I
> ever win the Lotto
> I'll buy a bottle.
> 
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
> 
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be
> explained away by
> stupidity.
> 
> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards®
http://movies.yahoo.com/



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*** EOOH ***
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Subject: RE: Scotch...
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 11:06:43 -0600
Thread-Topic: Scotch...
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From: "Lowder, Jason" <jasonl@spfld.kebcpa.com>
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Or for a nice variation, cut a small hole in a watermelon, then pour the
everclear into the melon.  Cover the hole, and let it sit all day. Then cut
up the melon and serve, be careful though.

Jason Lowder, CPA, MCP
Network Administrator
Kerber, Eck & Braeckel, LLP
Business Line: 217/789-0960

-----Original Message-----
>From: Dun Xiahou [mailto:xiahoudun13@yahoo.com] 
>Sent: Monday, March 25, 2002 10:32 AM
>To: FEISTFANS-L
>Subject: Re: Scotch...
>
>If you want to be knocked flat, just drink some
>Everclear.  It's 90% pure ethanol meant for chemistry
>use and not for consumption.  Although college
>students regularly violate that little rule everyday.
>
>- Xiahou Dun
>
>--- Andrew <abizet@woh.rr.com> wrote:
>> I have never heard of it. If it sells for that it
>> has to be great. I would
>> hope it has the power to knock me on my carcass.
>> 
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Raymond Feist" <raymond@bittersea.com>
>> To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
>> Sent: Friday, March 22, 2002 10:04 PM
>> Subject: Re: Scotch...
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Friday, March 22, 2002, at 12:55 PM, Reidar Høyem
>> wrote:
>> 
>> > Well, there are some "someked monsters"
>> alternatives that makes you
>> > wonder
>> > if it would kill of all the weeds in the garden
>> (and all else for that
>> > matter...)!
>> > It makes me wonder if it was at all intended for a
>> mere mortal to drink?
>> >
>> > Of the blended wiskeys, have you tried Upper Ten?
>> It has one or two Gold
>> > medals from different "competittions" around the
>> world. It is "made" in
>> > Norway, by the way...
>> > For my absolute favorit I would have to say
>> Glenmorangie 18 or 21 yrs.
>> > I've
>> > also had the honour of tasting the legendary
>> Bowmore 40 yrs. (In Norway
>> > it
>> > would cost around 5000$ pr. bottle!!!)
>> 
>> I'm envious.  Only three restaurants in North
>> America (one in New York,
>> one in Toronto, one in Orlando) sell it by the
>> glass.  Between $650 to
>> $800 per.  I hear it's unique in character.  If I
>> ever win the Lotto
>> I'll buy a bottle.
>> 
>> Best, R.E.F.
>> ----
>> 
>> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be
>> explained away by
>> stupidity.
>> 
>> 
>
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards®
>http://movies.yahoo.com/
>


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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 09:14:30 -0800
Subject: OT: Re: Scotch...
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Monday, March 25, 2002, at 08:31 AM, Dun Xiahou wrote:

> If you want to be knocked flat, just drink some
> Everclear.  It's 90% pure ethanol meant for chemistry
> use and not for consumption.  Although college
> students regularly violate that little rule everyday.
>>>

If the object of the exercise is to be "knocked flat," then you might as 
well simply apply a brick to the side of your head.

One doesn't drink scotch to get "knocked flat."

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Subject: Re: Scotch...
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Scotch...
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 12:01:27 -0600
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

> > If you want to be knocked flat, just drink some
> > Everclear.  It's 90% pure ethanol meant for chemistry
> > use and not for consumption.  Although college
> > students regularly violate that little rule everyday.

> If the object of the exercise is to be "knocked flat," then you might as
> well simply apply a brick to the side of your head.
>
> One doesn't drink scotch to get "knocked flat."

That is what I never understood about the college scene.  I don't
drink often but when I do it is some kind of nice wine.  The purpose
in college, on the other hand, seems to be entirely about the buzz
and who can get the most trashed.  That makes no sense and does some
serious damage to your insides when you do it that way.  I've seen
what a few Grenades (Everclear and melon juice) can do to people and
frankly I don't want to share the experience.  Particularly not the
hangover (which I've never gotten thankfully).

-James



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From: Dun Xiahou <xiahoudun13@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: OT: Re: Scotch...
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 11:40:15 -0800 (PST)
From: Dun Xiahou <xiahoudun13@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: OT: Re: Scotch...
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I agree wholeheartedly.  A good Scotch is a beautiful
thing, and should never be wasted on those who would
not appreciate it's finer delicate qualities. 
Drinking Scotch to be "knocked flat" would be like
using an original Picasso as wrapping paper for a
christmas present.  Well, maybe not that extreme, but
I think everyone get's the picture.

I feel the same way about a good Bourbon as well.  I
believe I have mentioned that A.H. Hirsch 20 year Sour
Mash Bourbon is rather nice.  Never was good at
describing flavors but I know what I enjoy.  Never
tried the A.H. Hirsch 16 Year though.  From what I
have read, the 2 types are actually from the same
batch.  The 16 year was bottled, and at the same time,
the rest was transferred to steel casks with oak
lining or some such thing.  The transferred casks were
then bottled 4 years later.  I should probably try the
16 year to taste if there really is a significant
difference, I imagine there would be, though.

- Xiahou Dun


--- Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com> wrote:
> 
> On Monday, March 25, 2002, at 08:31 AM, Dun Xiahou
> wrote:
> 
> > If you want to be knocked flat, just drink some
> > Everclear.  It's 90% pure ethanol meant for
> chemistry
> > use and not for consumption.  Although college
> > students regularly violate that little rule
> everyday.
> >>>
> 
> If the object of the exercise is to be "knocked
> flat," then you might as 
> well simply apply a brick to the side of your head.
> 
> One doesn't drink scotch to get "knocked flat."
> 
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
> 
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be
> explained away by 
> stupidity.
> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards®
http://movies.yahoo.com/



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From: Dun Xiahou <xiahoudun13@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Scotch...
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 11:43:15 -0800 (PST)
From: Dun Xiahou <xiahoudun13@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Scotch...
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

The reason many college students drink can be seen in
a nickname alcohol has frequently been given: liquid
courage.  It enables them to have the "bravery" to do
amazingly foolish things.  I've known many a person
who couldn't even approach a member of the opposite
sex without being 3 sheets to the wind.  On the whole,
being blotto can be a rather pleasant experience,
otherwise you wouldn't find so many people drinking
throughout history.

- Xiahou Dun

--- James Young <jajy@earthlink.net> wrote:
> > > If you want to be knocked flat, just drink some
> > > Everclear.  It's 90% pure ethanol meant for
> chemistry
> > > use and not for consumption.  Although college
> > > students regularly violate that little rule
> everyday.
> 
> > If the object of the exercise is to be "knocked
> flat," then you
> might as
> > well simply apply a brick to the side of your
> head.
> >
> > One doesn't drink scotch to get "knocked flat."
> 
> That is what I never understood about the college
> scene.  I don't
> drink often but when I do it is some kind of nice
> wine.  The purpose
> in college, on the other hand, seems to be entirely
> about the buzz
> and who can get the most trashed.  That makes no
> sense and does some
> serious damage to your insides when you do it that
> way.  I've seen
> what a few Grenades (Everclear and melon juice) can
> do to people and
> frankly I don't want to share the experience. 
> Particularly not the
> hangover (which I've never gotten thankfully).
> 
> -James
> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards®
http://movies.yahoo.com/



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 23:00:02 +0100
From: Caranorn Aglaredhel <caranorn@cmdnet.lu>
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Organization: House Phoenix
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Subject: Re: Scotch...
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

But then comes the next morning;-( Don't think I have been drunk for the 
past 3 years, one hangover too many did that for me. However good you 
may feel while you drink, next day is just plain horible:-)

Marc aka Caran...

Dun Xiahou wrote:

>The reason many college students drink can be seen in
>a nickname alcohol has frequently been given: liquid
>courage.  It enables them to have the "bravery" to do
>amazingly foolish things.  I've known many a person
>who couldn't even approach a member of the opposite
>sex without being 3 sheets to the wind.  On the whole,
>being blotto can be a rather pleasant experience,
>otherwise you wouldn't find so many people drinking
>throughout history.
>
>- Xiahou Dun
>



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From: "Michael Gibson" <mike@gibbyco.freeserve.co.uk>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: OT: Re: Scotch...
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 22:35:18 -0000
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*** EOOH ***
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: "Michael Gibson" <mike@gibbyco.freeserve.co.uk>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: OT: Re: Scotch...
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 22:35:18 -0000
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

> I agree wholeheartedly.  A good Scotch is a beautiful
> thing, and should never be wasted on those who would
> not appreciate it's finer delicate qualities.
> Drinking Scotch to be "knocked flat" would be like
> using an original Picasso as wrapping paper for a
> christmas present.  Well, maybe not that extreme, but
> I think everyone get's the picture.

What, "Girl with Bare Feet"?  Or perhaps "Lovers in the Street"? ;)

I agree though - get drunk on cheap beers/cider (if you're susceptible) and
spirits (or even meths, if you're really eager...), and savour the good stuff.
I've never seen the reason for getting anything more than merry, but I guess
it's horses for courses.

Mike,
Gibfish of the West

"I hate odd weeks, and don't get me started on Tuesdays..."



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From: Tony Joyce <drago@real-life.tm>
To: Raymond Feist Mailing List <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re-introduction...
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 23:30:37 +0000 (GMT)
From: Tony Joyce <drago@real-life.tm>
To: Raymond Feist Mailing List <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re-introduction...
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Greetings all,

Just re-introducing myself after a good few months away....

I haven't read any recent mails to the list so firstly apologies if I'm
not up on current events :)

Secondly, enjoyed the adventure of Hartraft and his gang
immensely.....

Thirdly, there is no third....

And last of all, New Zealand is one beautiful place to live and I doubt I
will ever set foot upon the shores of my UK homeland again...only for
visits I suspect...Only problem being, we get Ray's books quite late -
much later than the UK anyway... so that's the only downer :)

Dats all for now, I hope and trust you are all well...

Regards,

Dragosani, aka Tony Joyce


P.S. Please mail me offlist if this mail is in strange format in any way.



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From: "A Irving" <s355156@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Scotch...
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 12:39:54 +1000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "A Irving" <s355156@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Scotch...
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 12:39:54 +1000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

My friend had some Mississippi moonshine that was 81%, its now banned in
Australia. I use 70% ethanol to spray my hands/gloves/pipettes/
containers etc everyday. There is no way I would be desperate enough to
drink it. Methylated spirits, used for cleaning/dis-infecting etc is
mostly ethanol (and a little methanol) and people drink that after
diluting it.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]
> On Behalf Of Dun Xiahou
> Sent: Tuesday, 26 March 2002 2:32 AM
> To: FEISTFANS-L
> Subject: Re: Scotch...
> 
> If you want to be knocked flat, just drink some
> Everclear.  It's 90% pure ethanol meant for chemistry
> use and not for consumption.  Although college
> students regularly violate that little rule everyday.
> 
> - Xiahou Dun
> 
> --- Andrew <abizet@woh.rr.com> wrote:
> > I have never heard of it. If it sells for that it
> > has to be great. I would
> > hope it has the power to knock me on my carcass.
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Raymond Feist" <raymond@bittersea.com>
> > To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> > Sent: Friday, March 22, 2002 10:04 PM
> > Subject: Re: Scotch...
> >
> >
> >
> > On Friday, March 22, 2002, at 12:55 PM, Reidar Høyem
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Well, there are some "someked monsters"
> > alternatives that makes you
> > > wonder
> > > if it would kill of all the weeds in the garden
> > (and all else for that
> > > matter...)!
> > > It makes me wonder if it was at all intended for a
> > mere mortal to drink?
> > >
> > > Of the blended wiskeys, have you tried Upper Ten?
> > It has one or two Gold
> > > medals from different "competittions" around the
> > world. It is "made" in
> > > Norway, by the way...
> > > For my absolute favorit I would have to say
> > Glenmorangie 18 or 21 yrs.
> > > I've
> > > also had the honour of tasting the legendary
> > Bowmore 40 yrs. (In Norway
> > > it
> > > would cost around 5000$ pr. bottle!!!)
> >
> > I'm envious.  Only three restaurants in North
> > America (one in New York,
> > one in Toronto, one in Orlando) sell it by the
> > glass.  Between $650 to
> > $800 per.  I hear it's unique in character.  If I
> > ever win the Lotto
> > I'll buy a bottle.
> >
> > Best, R.E.F.
> > ----
> >
> > Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be
> > explained away by
> > stupidity.
> >
> >
> 
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards®
> http://movies.yahoo.com/



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*** EOOH ***
From: JEEPMONSTER69@aol.com
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 21:58:49 EST
Subject: Re: Scotch...
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

In a message dated 3/25/2002 9:49:29 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
s355156@student.uq.edu.au writes:


> My friend had some Mississippi moonshine that was 81%, its now banned in
> Australia. I use 70% ethanol to spray my hands/gloves/pipettes/
> containers etc everyday. There is no way I would be desperate enough to
> drink it. Methylated spirits, used for cleaning/dis-infecting etc is
> mostly ethanol (and a little methanol) and people drink that after
> diluting it.
> 

             ...or use it as gasoline (or would petrol make you more 
comfortable?) or flamethrower fuel <G>.

                                           Peace,

                                                 Matt
"Lets Roll."- Todd Beamer
USA, Muthafacko!

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From: "Some DuDe" <somedude1_2000@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re: Re-introduction...
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 17:30:14 +1100
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*** EOOH ***
X-Originating-IP: [210.84.54.60]
From: "Some DuDe" <somedude1_2000@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Re-introduction...
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 17:30:14 +1100
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Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Welcome Back
I've only been on the list for a short time so I don't know you anyway but 
welcome back.
I just wanted to suggest to you that for the Feist books you should order 
them over the internet and get them first before any country.
I would also like to ask the list, what are all your ages? Also Mr Feist's 
Age.
If that is too off topic them nevermind

Goodbye


>From: Tony Joyce <drago@real-life.tm>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: Raymond Feist Mailing List <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
>Subject: Re-introduction...
>Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 23:30:37 +0000 (GMT)
>
>Greetings all,
>
>Just re-introducing myself after a good few months away....
>
>I haven't read any recent mails to the list so firstly apologies if I'm
>not up on current events :)
>
>Secondly, enjoyed the adventure of Hartraft and his gang
>immensely.....
>
>Thirdly, there is no third....
>
>And last of all, New Zealand is one beautiful place to live and I doubt I
>will ever set foot upon the shores of my UK homeland again...only for
>visits I suspect...Only problem being, we get Ray's books quite late -
>much later than the UK anyway... so that's the only downer :)
>
>Dats all for now, I hope and trust you are all well...
>
>Regards,
>
>Dragosani, aka Tony Joyce
>
>
>P.S. Please mail me offlist if this mail is in strange format in any way.
>




_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.



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References: <F6pBQs6KM6JuxBfGcZH000221e7@hotmail.com>
Subject: Sites to order ray books from..
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 14:43:00 +0800
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Casey Parker" <itzswift@iinet.net.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Sites to order ray books from..
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 14:43:00 +0800
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Greetings

I was wondering if anyone out there had any good sites to order ray books
from? I live in Australia so probably do not get the books until a few
monthes after they been released (and this ain't good enough >.<).

If anyone could help me out be great

Thanks



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To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
References: <F6pBQs6KM6JuxBfGcZH000221e7@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Re-introduction...
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Re-introduction...
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 00:58:07 -0600
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

    The best way to get the list to answer mass questions is to
either have them E-mail you privately and do a compilation, or put
up a webpage with a survey type questionnaire and get the results
that way.  That limits the overflow traffic and repetitiveness of
the posts.  You can announce the results as you like from either
method.

I know several people have done this before.  You might ask a few of
them about it.

-James


> Welcome Back
> I've only been on the list for a short time so I don't know you anyway
> but  welcome back.
> I just wanted to suggest to you that for the Feist books you should
> order them over the internet and get them first before any country.
> I would also like to ask the list, what are all your ages? Also Mr Feist's
> Age.
> If that is too off topic them nevermind
>
> Goodbye



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From: "Some DuDe" <somedude1_2000@hotmail.com>
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From: "Some DuDe" <somedude1_2000@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re: Sites to order ray books from..
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 18:03:17 +1100
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Hey I'm from Australia too. You would be surprised just how quick we do get 
the books. But I find that sold.com.au and ebay.com.au are good although 
they are auction sites and you must bid for the books.
Also theres Amazon.com but I think it is an american site and i'm not sure 
about the paying method. Finally the for sure place is the Dymocks people. 
They are all RRP, plus shipping/postage and handling which can make the 
books rather expensive. I get my books from Target they are 35% off RRP 
always and usually get in all the Feist books. I hope i've helped you.




>From: "Casey Parker" <itzswift@iinet.net.au>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
>Subject: Sites to order ray books from..
>Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 14:43:00 +0800
>
>Greetings
>
>I was wondering if anyone out there had any good sites to order ray books
>from? I live in Australia so probably do not get the books until a few
>monthes after they been released (and this ain't good enough >.<).
>
>If anyone could help me out be great
>
>Thanks
>




_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx



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From: Kenneth Jones <killkenny@thos.co.za>
Subject: Re: Sites to order ray books from..
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Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 09:13:57 +0200
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Kenneth Jones <killkenny@thos.co.za>
Subject: Re: Sites to order ray books from..
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I have personally found that amazon.co.uk is the best

At 06:03 PM 3/26/02 +1100, you wrote:
>Hey I'm from Australia too. You would be surprised just how quick we do 
>get the books. But I find that sold.com.au and ebay.com.au are good 
>although they are auction sites and you must bid for the books.
>Also theres Amazon.com but I think it is an american site and i'm not sure 
>about the paying method. Finally the for sure place is the Dymocks people. 
>They are all RRP, plus shipping/postage and handling which can make the 
>books rather expensive. I get my books from Target they are 35% off RRP 
>always and usually get in all the Feist books. I hope i've helped you.
>
>
>
>
>>From: "Casey Parker" <itzswift@iinet.net.au>
>>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>>To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
>>Subject: Sites to order ray books from..
>>Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 14:43:00 +0800
>>
>>Greetings
>>
>>I was wondering if anyone out there had any good sites to order ray books
>>from? I live in Australia so probably do not get the books until a few
>>monthes after they been released (and this ain't good enough >.<).
>>
>>If anyone could help me out be great
>>
>>Thanks
>
>
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
>http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx



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At 06:03 PM 3/26/02 +1100, Some DuDe wrote:
>Hey I'm from Australia too. You would be surprised just how quick we do 
>get the books. But I find that sold.com.au and ebay.com.au are good 
>although they are auction sites and you must bid for the books.
>Also theres Amazon.com but I think it is an american site and i'm not sure 
>about the paying method. Finally the for sure place is the Dymocks people. 
>They are all RRP, plus shipping/postage and handling which can make the 
>books rather expensive. I get my books from Target they are 35% off RRP 
>always and usually get in all the Feist books. I hope i've helped you.

Amazon.Com and Amazon.co.UK are American and British sites respectively for 
the american company Amazon. Both sites ship internationally and take care 
of doing the currency conversion via your CC company.

Larry



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To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
References: <F89SrIyklxDqRQtdB3x0000c6fe@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Sites to order ray books from..
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From: "Casey Parker" <itzswift@iinet.net.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Sites to order ray books from..
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 15:45:04 +0800
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Thanks

I have used dymocks online before and it does seem to be pretty up-to-date
with UK books

=D thx for info
----- Original Message -----
From: "Some DuDe" <somedude1_2000@hotmail.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2002 3:03 PM
Subject: Re: Sites to order ray books from..


> Hey I'm from Australia too. You would be surprised just how quick we do get
> the books. But I find that sold.com.au and ebay.com.au are good although
> they are auction sites and you must bid for the books.
> Also theres Amazon.com but I think it is an american site and i'm not sure
> about the paying method. Finally the for sure place is the Dymocks people.
> They are all RRP, plus shipping/postage and handling which can make the
> books rather expensive. I get my books from Target they are 35% off RRP
> always and usually get in all the Feist books. I hope i've helped you.
>
>
>
>
> >From: "Casey Parker" <itzswift@iinet.net.au>
> >Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> >To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
> >Subject: Sites to order ray books from..
> >Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 14:43:00 +0800
> >
> >Greetings
> >
> >I was wondering if anyone out there had any good sites to order ray books
> >from? I live in Australia so probably do not get the books until a few
> >monthes after they been released (and this ain't good enough >.<).
> >
> >If anyone could help me out be great
> >
> >Thanks
> >
>
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
> http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
>
>



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Subject: Re: Sites to order ray books from..
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From: "Mark Tonkin" <shadowfire@chariot.net.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Sites to order ray books from..
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 22:57:50 +1030
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

----- Original Message -----
From: "Casey Parker" <itzswift@iinet.net.au>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2002 5:13 PM
Subject: Sites to order ray books from..


> Greetings
>
> I was wondering if anyone out there had any good sites to order ray books
> from? I live in Australia so probably do not get the books until a few
> monthes after they been released (and this ain't good enough >.<).
>
> If anyone could help me out be great
>
> Thanks

All books since Betrayal at Krondor (or was it earlier than this?) have been
released at the same time in Australia as in the UK, so there isn't much
point in ordering from overseas when it will take several weeks to get here,
during which time you would have been looking at it longingly in the store
windows.

I've been using Dymocks to get hardcover books from overseas that are only
released in paperback in Australia (Mercedes Lackey & even Robert Jordan
now).

- MARK



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From: "Nevyn" <alien4@wasp.net.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: The Tsuruannis
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 20:29:53 +0800
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Nevyn" <alien4@wasp.net.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: The Tsuruannis
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 20:29:53 +0800
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Hey Hey Ray.... can u shed some light on this? Were they really based
of Asians?? Fascinating but I never pictured them as Asians muhahaa.
--->>>

<manifo> hey no one
<Nevynn> muahahahaha
<Nevynn> hey
<manifo> Heheh those were good books
<Nevynn> pftt not really
<manifo> i liked em
<Nevynn> REF is better than KK
<manifo> sure feist is cool
<manifo> i read all his books too
<Nevynn> ya
<manifo> which was your favorite series
<manifo> the original with pug
<manifo> or the later with darkmoor
<manifo> or in between
<Nevynn> awwww
<Nevynn> well
<Nevynn> i dunno
<Nevynn> i liked em all so much
<manifo> trure
<manifo> the best time was with jimmy the hand and prince aruthra
<manifo> wasnt it shitty the way aruthra died
<manifo> fell off his horse like a chump
<Nevynn> LOL
<Nevynn> Yupp
<Nevynn> pffttt
<Nevynn> but
<Nevynn> I dont remember reading that he died
<Nevynn> LOL
<manifo> alot of people die for stpid reasons in his books
<manifo> like remember in the other continent, one of the convicts just fell off his horse and broke his neck
<Nevynn> yes i remember that
<manifo> and then, remember that cool old soldier, owen, some stupid soldier shot him in the head with a crossbow
<manifo> he was like goofing around and fire it backwards lol
<Nevynn> lol yes i remember that too
<manifo> i swear half the people in Feist's books die by accident
<Nevynn> LOL yeah maybe
<manifo> taking a shower in his books is more dangerous than fighting thousands of goblins
<Nevynn> LOL!
<Nevynn> not that they shower at all
<manifo> well now you know why!
<Nevynn> LOL!!!
<Nevynn> actually
<Nevynn> my favourite book would have to me SoTE
<manifo> which one is that
<Nevynn> servent of the empire
<manifo> oh were those the ones that were co-written by feist with someone else
<manifo> about that asian chick
<Nevynn> lol
<Nevynn> shes no asian
<Nevynn> shes tsurannian
<manifo> theyre asians
<manifo> from another dimension
<Nevynn> no there not
<Nevynn> lol
<manifo> yes they are
<Nevynn> NO
<Nevynn> lol
<manifo> theyre like feudal japanese
<Nevynn> dont ruin it for me!!
<Nevynn> lol
<manifo> yes they are
<manifo> dude their names are totally asian
<Nevynn> lol
<Nevynn> if u say so
<manifo> and every char in that realm has dark hair
<Nevynn> errr
<Nevynn> no
<Nevynn> Pugs wife was blonde
<manifo> you never realized they were asians?
<manifo> no she wasnt
<manifo> besides, pugs with wasnt tsurani remember
<manifo> she was mongolian
<Nevynn> LOL!!!!
<Nevynn> im gonna ask raymond about this
<Nevynn> hold on
<manifo> she was part of the nomadic tribes
<manifo> that lived near the asians
<manifo> therefore she must be mongolian
Thanks,
              Nevyn
_______________________________________________________________________

Not every love, but only that which has a noble purpose, is noble and worthy of praise.
 
- Plato (c. 428-348 BC)
_______________________________________________________________________

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From: Kenneth Jones <killkenny@thos.co.za>
Subject: Re: The Tsuruannis
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 14:39:46 +0200
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Kenneth Jones <killkenny@thos.co.za>
Subject: Re: The Tsuruannis
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Next time you decide to post something like this, USE SPOILER 
SPACE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

At 08:29 PM 3/26/02 +0800, you wrote:
>Hey Hey Ray.... can u shed some light on this? Were they really based of 
>Asians?? Fascinating but I never pictured them as Asians muhahaa.   --->>>
>
><manifo> hey no one
><Nevynn> muahahahaha
><Nevynn> hey
><manifo> Heheh those were good books
><Nevynn> pftt not really
><manifo> i liked em
><Nevynn> REF is better than KK
><manifo> sure feist is cool
><manifo> i read all his books too
><Nevynn> ya
><manifo> which was your favorite series
><manifo> the original with pug
><manifo> or the later with darkmoor
><manifo> or in between
><Nevynn> awwww
><Nevynn> well
><Nevynn> i dunno
><Nevynn> i liked em all so much
><manifo> trure
><manifo> the best time was with jimmy the hand and prince aruthra
><manifo> wasnt it shitty the way aruthra died
><manifo> fell off his horse like a chump
><Nevynn> LOL
><Nevynn> Yupp
><Nevynn> pffttt
><Nevynn> but
><Nevynn> I dont remember reading that he died
><Nevynn> LOL
><manifo> alot of people die for stpid reasons in his books
><manifo> like remember in the other continent, one of the convicts just 
>fell off his horse and broke his neck
><Nevynn> yes i remember that
><manifo> and then, remember that cool old soldier, owen, some stupid 
>soldier shot him in the head with a crossbow
><manifo> he was like goofing around and fire it backwards lol
><Nevynn> lol yes i remember that too
><manifo> i swear half the people in Feist's books die by accident
><Nevynn> LOL yeah maybe
><manifo> taking a shower in his books is more dangerous than fighting 
>thousands of goblins
><Nevynn> LOL!
><Nevynn> not that they shower at all
><manifo> well now you know why!
><Nevynn> LOL!!!
><Nevynn> actually
><Nevynn> my favourite book would have to me SoTE
><manifo> which one is that
><Nevynn> servent of the empire
><manifo> oh were those the ones that were co-written by feist with someone 
>else
><manifo> about that asian chick
><Nevynn> lol
><Nevynn> shes no asian
><Nevynn> shes tsurannian
><manifo> theyre asians
><manifo> from another dimension
><Nevynn> no there not
><Nevynn> lol
><manifo> yes they are
><Nevynn> NO
><Nevynn> lol
><manifo> theyre like feudal japanese
><Nevynn> dont ruin it for me!!
><Nevynn> lol
><manifo> yes they are
><manifo> dude their names are totally asian
><Nevynn> lol
><Nevynn> if u say so
><manifo> and every char in that realm has dark hair
><Nevynn> errr
><Nevynn> no
><Nevynn> Pugs wife was blonde
><manifo> you never realized they were asians?
><manifo> no she wasnt
><manifo> besides, pugs with wasnt tsurani remember
><manifo> she was mongolian
><Nevynn> LOL!!!!
><Nevynn> im gonna ask raymond about this
><Nevynn> hold on
><manifo> she was part of the nomadic tribes
><manifo> that lived near the asians
><manifo> therefore she must be mongolian
>Thanks,
>               Nevyn
>_______________________________________________________________________
>
>Not every love, but only that which has a noble purpose, is noble and 
>worthy of praise.
>
>- Plato (c. 428-348 BC)
>_______________________________________________________________________



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From: Caranorn Aglaredhel <caranorn@cmdnet.lu>
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Subject: Re: The Tsuruannis
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Well NoOne, I for one always thought of the Tsurani (sp.) as asian. But 
it's been a while since I read either the original Riftwar books or the 
Empire trilogy. There are certainly many similarities to Asian 
civilisations in those books. But that does not mean that Ray copied 
them outright, rather that he (and Janny Wurts) used some features of 
Asian culture as it fit Kelewan. Then again, when I last read those 
books I knew very little about traditional Asian countries and cultures.

As to the nomads to the north, they need not have been Mongol, not even 
inspired by the Mongols. Unfortunatelly I recall very little of them 
(maybe I will have to reread the Empire trilogy soon). I expect some 
Mongol, Turkic, Hun or Scyth features might have found there way into 
that culture as well.

But why would it matter whether they are Asians or not? Other then 
originallity of the plot I see no possible problem. Even in that area I 
was never greatly disturbed about Tsuranuani, after all there were many 
features of different origins, which fit the storyline and not all were 
easily identifiable. I expect my next reread of those books will be in a 
different light (from a world design perspective, though I have 
temporarily abandonned my own project).

Still, the Empire books were always my least preferred of Ray's books 
(which is why I only reread them once) so I should not say too much 
about them.

Marc aka Caran...



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*** EOOH ***
From: "Nevyn" <alien4@wasp.net.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: The Tsuruannis
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 23:08:25 +0800
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Heheheh it doesnt matter at all it just contradicts the images Ive created
of the characters physical appearance t'is all :)



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At 11:08 PM 3/26/02 +0800, Nevyn wrote:
>Heheheh it doesnt matter at all it just contradicts the images Ive created
>of the characters physical appearance t'is all :)


You don't get out very much, do you?

Larry



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At 02:39 PM 3/26/02 +0200, Kenneth Jones wrote:
>Next time you decide to post something like this, USE SPOILER 
>SPACE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


<Huge Snippage.>

Please do not quote an entire post in order to send ONE line,

Larry



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Subject: Anyone got some info about.....
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 01:44:58 +0800
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Casey Parker" <itzswift@iinet.net.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Anyone got some info about.....
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 01:44:58 +0800
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I was wondering if anyone knows anything about the "Conclave of
Shadows" Series or Book or Saga or whatever it is going to be
released....?

After only recently finishing Shard of a Broken Crown i need MOREE!!! ~>.<~

So any info would be great.. thanks  !

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From: "Cameron Duncan" <cduncan@atinera.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Anyone got some info about.....
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 03:53:53 +1000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Cameron Duncan" <cduncan@atinera.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Anyone got some info about.....
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 03:53:53 +1000
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For the Australian market, Ray said in a previous post dated 29/11/01 -
"Assuming I get the damn thing written in time, next October."

There may have been updates to the list on his progress since then, but
I can't find them.

Have you tried Honoured Enemy?

Cameron

-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On
>Behalf Of Casey Parker
>Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2002 3:45
>To: FEISTFANS-L
>Subject: Anyone got some info about.....
>
>
>I was wondering if anyone knows anything about the "Conclave of Shadows"
>Series or Book or Saga or whatever it is going to be released....?
>
>After only recently finishing Shard of a Broken Crown i need MOREE!!! ~>.<~
>
>So any info would be great.. thanks  !
>


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Subject: Film
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Holden" <james@globalvision.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Film
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 17:56:35 -0000
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Am I the only one that feels Magician (and probably each and every book
after that) would make one the most amazing films.  Lord of the Rings was
good but for me personally it wouldnt even touch on how they could make the
Magician - though one does worry about what they would miss out in a film
version.

-Jim

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Subject: Re: Anyone got some info about.....
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 13:00:02 -0500
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Sean Fister <sean@hope.kih.net>
Subject: Re: Anyone got some info about.....
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

At 12:44 PM 3/26/02, you wrote:
>I was wondering if anyone knows anything about the "Conclave of Shadows" 
>Series or Book or Saga or whatever it is going to be released....?
>
>After only recently finishing Shard of a Broken Crown i need MOREE!!! ~>.<~
>
>So any info would be great.. thanks  !
>

Talon of the Silver Hawk, book 1 in the Conclave of Shadow Series, is due 
out in August in the UK according to amazon.co.uk and Spring of next year 
in the US.  In the meantime you can pick up book two of the Tales of the 
Riftwar Series, Murder in LaMut which is coauthored by Ray and Joel 
Rosenberg will be out in May in the UK, but not in the US due to some 
publishing issues.  I'm sure Ray and Joel would be delighted if you picked 
up a copy.

Hope this helps,

Sean Fister



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*** EOOH ***
From: lds627@attbi.com
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Film
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 18:40:36 +0000
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

No, you are not the only one. But please, don't start 
the interminably long Who should play whom, here. It is 
something that comes up every few months or so and chews 
up a lot of bandwidth.

Larry
> Am I the only one that feels Magician (and probably each and every book
> after that) would make one the most amazing films.  Lord of the Rings was
> good but for me personally it wouldnt even touch on how they could make the
> Magician - though one does worry about what they would miss out in a film
> version.
> 
> -Jim



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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Spoilers (The Tsuruannis)
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*** EOOH ***
From: Russell.S.Teeter@kp.org
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Spoilers (The Tsuruannis)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 10:08:29 -0800
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

No offense Kenneth, but every passage they talk about in their 
conversation is over 3 years old.   It is a long known fact that the list 
usually puts spoiler spaces for stories that haven't come out in paperback 
yet, but to put in spoiler spaces for ever single book that ever came out 
because someone hasn't read it is going a little over the edge.  IMOHO, I 
would delete any message the moment I saw a spoiler if I wasn't interested 
in it. 

Russell S. Teeter



Next time you decide to post something like this, USE SPOILER 
SPACE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

S
P
O
I
L
E
R






At 08:29 PM 3/26/02 +0800, you wrote:
>Hey Hey Ray.... can u shed some light on this? Were they really based of 
>Asians?? Fascinating but I never pictured them as Asians muhahaa. --->>>
>
><manifo> hey no one
><Nevynn> muahahahaha
><Nevynn> hey
><manifo> Heheh those were good books
><Nevynn> pftt not really
><manifo> i liked em
><Nevynn> REF is better than KK
><manifo> sure feist is cool
><manifo> i read all his books too
><Nevynn> ya
><manifo> which was your favorite series
><manifo> the original with pug
><manifo> or the later with darkmoor
><manifo> or in between
><Nevynn> awwww
><Nevynn> well
><Nevynn> i dunno
><Nevynn> i liked em all so much
><manifo> trure
><manifo> the best time was with jimmy the hand and prince aruthra
><manifo> wasnt it shitty the way aruthra died
><manifo> fell off his horse like a chump
><Nevynn> LOL
><Nevynn> Yupp
><Nevynn> pffttt
><Nevynn> but
><Nevynn> I dont remember reading that he died
><Nevynn> LOL
><manifo> alot of people die for stpid reasons in his books
><manifo> like remember in the other continent, one of the convicts just 
>fell off his horse and broke his neck
><Nevynn> yes i remember that
><manifo> and then, remember that cool old soldier, owen, some stupid 
>soldier shot him in the head with a crossbow
><manifo> he was like goofing around and fire it backwards lol
><Nevynn> lol yes i remember that too
><manifo> i swear half the people in Feist's books die by accident
><Nevynn> LOL yeah maybe
><manifo> taking a shower in his books is more dangerous than fighting 
>thousands of goblins
><Nevynn> LOL!
><Nevynn> not that they shower at all
><manifo> well now you know why!
><Nevynn> LOL!!!
><Nevynn> actually
><Nevynn> my favourite book would have to me SoTE
><manifo> which one is that
><Nevynn> servent of the empire
><manifo> oh were those the ones that were co-written by feist with someone 
>else
><manifo> about that asian chick
><Nevynn> lol
><Nevynn> shes no asian
><Nevynn> shes tsurannian
><manifo> theyre asians
><manifo> from another dimension
><Nevynn> no there not
><Nevynn> lol
><manifo> yes they are
><Nevynn> NO
><Nevynn> lol
><manifo> theyre like feudal japanese
><Nevynn> dont ruin it for me!!
><Nevynn> lol
><manifo> yes they are
><manifo> dude their names are totally asian
><Nevynn> lol
><Nevynn> if u say so
><manifo> and every char in that realm has dark hair
><Nevynn> errr
><Nevynn> no
><Nevynn> Pugs wife was blonde
><manifo> you never realized they were asians?
><manifo> no she wasnt
><manifo> besides, pugs with wasnt tsurani remember
><manifo> she was mongolian
><Nevynn> LOL!!!!
><Nevynn> im gonna ask raymond about this
><Nevynn> hold on
><manifo> she was part of the nomadic tribes
><manifo> that lived near the asians
><manifo> therefore she must be mongolian
>Thanks,
>               Nevyn
>_______________________________________________________________________
>
>Not every love, but only that which has a noble purpose, is noble and 
>worthy of praise.
>
>- Plato (c. 428-348 BC)
>_______________________________________________________________________

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X-PH: V4.1@cornell.edu (Cornell Modified) 
From: Dun Xiahou <xiahoudun13@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: Scotch...
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 12:32:32 -0800 (PST)
From: Dun Xiahou <xiahoudun13@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: Scotch...
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Alcohol in the United States may be as high as 151
proof and still be labeled for consumption.  Don't
quote me on that as I'm not 100% sure of the laws. 
However, Everclear IS 90% pure ethanol.  It is labeled
such that it warns explicitly to NOT drink it in it's
pure form.  However, I have known many a stupid human
being who HAS wet their throat with undiluted
Everclear.  These are usually the same people who
never seem to remember where they were the previous 12
days.  There are some whiskeys that go fairly high in
proof that are actually rather tasty.  This includes
Scotches which have been bottled at what I think is
referred to as "fullstrength."  What I mean is that
they are bottled from the cask without adding anything
to them to lower their proof.  I think this may also
be called "cask strength" or something.  I had a small
glass of a 30 year fullstrength once that was about
130 proof I think.  It was very very good.  Then
again, I had it on the rocks; call me a wimp if you
want, but the sheer vapors from it would have been
enough to knock me flat if I had attempted to drink it
"neat".

- Xiahou Dun

--- A Irving <s355156@student.uq.edu.au> wrote:
> My friend had some Mississippi moonshine that was
> 81%, its now banned in
> Australia. I use 70% ethanol to spray my
> hands/gloves/pipettes/
> containers etc everyday. There is no way I would be
> desperate enough to
> drink it. Methylated spirits, used for
> cleaning/dis-infecting etc is
> mostly ethanol (and a little methanol) and people
> drink that after
> diluting it.
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]
> > On Behalf Of Dun Xiahou
> > Sent: Tuesday, 26 March 2002 2:32 AM
> > To: FEISTFANS-L
> > Subject: Re: Scotch...
> > 
> > If you want to be knocked flat, just drink some
> > Everclear.  It's 90% pure ethanol meant for
> chemistry
> > use and not for consumption.  Although college
> > students regularly violate that little rule
> everyday.
> > 
> > - Xiahou Dun
> > 
> > --- Andrew <abizet@woh.rr.com> wrote:
> > > I have never heard of it. If it sells for that
> it
> > > has to be great. I would
> > > hope it has the power to knock me on my carcass.
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Raymond Feist" <raymond@bittersea.com>
> > > To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> > > Sent: Friday, March 22, 2002 10:04 PM
> > > Subject: Re: Scotch...
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Friday, March 22, 2002, at 12:55 PM, Reidar
> Høyem
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Well, there are some "someked monsters"
> > > alternatives that makes you
> > > > wonder
> > > > if it would kill of all the weeds in the
> garden
> > > (and all else for that
> > > > matter...)!
> > > > It makes me wonder if it was at all intended
> for a
> > > mere mortal to drink?
> > > >
> > > > Of the blended wiskeys, have you tried Upper
> Ten?
> > > It has one or two Gold
> > > > medals from different "competittions" around
> the
> > > world. It is "made" in
> > > > Norway, by the way...
> > > > For my absolute favorit I would have to say
> > > Glenmorangie 18 or 21 yrs.
> > > > I've
> > > > also had the honour of tasting the legendary
> > > Bowmore 40 yrs. (In Norway
> > > > it
> > > > would cost around 5000$ pr. bottle!!!)
> > >
> > > I'm envious.  Only three restaurants in North
> > > America (one in New York,
> > > one in Toronto, one in Orlando) sell it by the
> > > glass.  Between $650 to
> > > $800 per.  I hear it's unique in character.  If
> I
> > > ever win the Lotto
> > > I'll buy a bottle.
> > >
> > > Best, R.E.F.
> > > ----
> > >
> > > Never attribute to malice what can
> satisfactorily be
> > > explained away by
> > > stupidity.
> > >
> > >
> > 
> > 
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy
> Awards®
> > http://movies.yahoo.com/
> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards®
http://movies.yahoo.com/



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To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
References: <20020326184036.URNC2626.rwcrmhc51.attbi.com@rwcrwbc55>
Subject: Re: Film
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Film
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 14:48:26 -0600
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

It is also one of the indisputably banned topics (one of five).  We
determined that after about a dozen flamewars on the subject over
the last half-decade or so.

Here is the list of banned topics courtesy of Ray Chiang's Rules for
Newbies:

- Any combination of REF's books as a movie [see the FAQ]
- Personal Computer/Operating System religious wars [way off-topic]
- The belief that Pug's parents *must* be someone important or
   powerful [see the FAQ]
- Posting stories (fan fiction or otherwise) [can cause copyright
   problems]
- That you don't like the cover of book <x> and REF should choose a
   different cover [Cover art is up to the publisher, not the
author]

-James

> No, you are not the only one. But please, don't start
> the interminably long Who should play whom, here. It is
> something that comes up every few months or so and chews
> up a lot of bandwidth.
>
> Larry

> > Am I the only one that feels Magician (and probably each and every book
> > after that) would make one the most amazing films.  Lord of the Rings was
> > good but for me personally it wouldnt even touch on how they could make the
> > Magician - though one does worry about what they would miss out in a film
> > version.
> >
> > -Jim
>



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From: "Andy Holcombe" <andy_wan_kenobi@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re: Sites to order ray books from..
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 16:13:05 -0600
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*** EOOH ***
X-Originating-IP: [66.233.37.154]
From: "Andy Holcombe" <andy_wan_kenobi@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Sites to order ray books from..
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 16:13:05 -0600
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>From: "Casey Parker" <itzswift@iinet.net.au>

>I was wondering if anyone out there had any good sites to order ray books
>from? I live in Australia so probably do not get the books until a few
>monthes after they been released (and this ain't good enough >.<).

I order Honoured Enemy this past Friday from Amazon UK and it came in today. 
  So they have excellent overseas shipping, at least to the US.

Andy Holcombe
Andy_wan_Kenobi@hotmail.com

"To err is human, but to really foul things up requires a computer."
     -Farmers' Almanac 1978

"I don't give a damn for a man who can only spell a word one way."
     -Mark Twain

"History will be kind to me, for I intend to write it."
     -Winston Churchill

_________________________________________________________________
Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
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To: feistfans-l@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Sites to order ray books from..
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Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 08:18:16 +1000 (EST)
From: "A Irving" <s355156@student.uq.edu.au>
To: feistfans-l@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Sites to order ray books from..
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You should find that most australian bookstores, from Dymocks to QBD to 
Angus and robertson bookworld, get Ray's books in the same time as the UK 
release. The last book I bought, HE, was released 1 day before the UK 
release. Target/Kmart and other supermarket chain stores like that often 
get them in a week or two later.
Responding To:    "Mark Tonkin" <shadowfire@chariot.net.au>
Original Date:    Tue, 26 Mar 2002 22:57:50 +1030
> From: "Casey Parker" <itzswift@iinet.net.au>

> > Greetings
> >
> > I was wondering if anyone out there had any good sites to order ray 
> > books
> > from? I live in Australia so probably do not get the books until a few
> > monthes after they been released (and this ain't good enough >.<).
> >
> > If anyone could help me out be great
> >
> > Thanks
> 
> All books since Betrayal at Krondor (or was it earlier than this?) have 
> been
> released at the same time in Australia as in the UK, so there isn't much
> point in ordering from overseas when it will take several weeks to get 
> here,
> during which time you would have been looking at it longingly in the 
> store
> windows.
> 
> I've been using Dymocks to get hardcover books from overseas that are 
> only
> released in paperback in Australia (Mercedes Lackey & even Robert Jordan
> now).
> 
> - MARK




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From: "A Irving" <s355156@student.uq.edu.au>
To: feistfans-l@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: The Tsuruannis
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Responding To:    Caranorn Aglaredhel <caranorn@cmdnet.lu>
Original Date:    Tue, 26 Mar 2002 14:04:35 +0100
> 
> Well NoOne, 
Another Katharine Kerr reader then?

> I for one always thought of the Tsurani (sp.) as asian. But 
> it's been a while since I read either the original Riftwar books or the 
> Empire trilogy. There are certainly many similarities to Asian 
> civilisations in those books. But that does not mean that Ray copied 
> them outright, rather that he (and Janny Wurts) used some features of 
> Asian culture as it fit Kelewan. Then again, when I last read those 
> books I knew very little about traditional Asian countries and cultures.
> 
> As to the nomads to the north, they need not have been Mongol, not even 
> inspired by the Mongols. Unfortunatelly I recall very little of them 
> (maybe I will have to reread the Empire trilogy soon). I expect some 
> Mongol, Turkic, Hun or Scyth features might have found there way into 
> that culture as well.
> 
> But why would it matter whether they are Asians or not? Other then 
> originallity of the plot I see no possible problem. Even in that area I 
> was never greatly disturbed about Tsuranuani, after all there were many 
> features of different origins, which fit the storyline and not all were 
> easily identifiable. I expect my next reread of those books will be in a 
> different light (from a world design perspective, though I have 
> temporarily abandonned my own project).
> 
> Still, the Empire books were always my least preferred of Ray's books 
> (which is why I only reread them once) so I should not say too much 
> about them.
> 
> Marc aka Caran...
CIAO,
     Aaron

http://www.hallofworlds.net/kerr/main.php
http://www.nightshadow.co.uk




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From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Film
In-Reply-To: <EOEGLFBLIODKEIOHNAANIEJMDBAA.james@globalvision.com>
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Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 11:06:07 +1000 (GMT+1000)
From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Film
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

> Am I the only one that feels Magician (and probably each and every book
> after that) would make one the most amazing films.  Lord of the Rings was
> good but for me personally it wouldnt even touch on how they could make the
> Magician - though one does worry about what they would miss out in a film
> version.
> -Jim

While this has been done-to-death, a quick point..

I don't think the film media could do adequete justice to the books.

Thanks
Darragh
-=-=
www.iamtheporkfireman.com
[Email]: s356179@student.uq.edu.au [ICQ]: 114283262



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From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Spoilers (The Tsuruannis)
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Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 11:08:30 +1000 (GMT+1000)
From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Spoilers (The Tsuruannis)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

It's a matter of courtesy.

Lots of people have read all the other books except the Empire trilogy, as
in their opinion its not necessary to read the books in chronological
order.

I think that spoiler space on all books, with perhaps the exception of
Magician, is a good idea. Doesn't take that long.

> No offense Kenneth, but every passage they talk about in their
> conversation is over 3 years old.   It is a long known fact that the list
> usually puts spoiler spaces for stories that haven't come out in paperback
> yet, but to put in spoiler spaces for ever single book that ever came out
> because someone hasn't read it is going a little over the edge.  IMOHO, I
> would delete any message the moment I saw a spoiler if I wasn't interested
> in it.
>
> Russell S. Teeter
>
>
>
> Next time you decide to post something like this, USE SPOILER
> SPACE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
> S
> P
> O
> I
> L
> E
> R
>
>
>
>
>
>
> At 08:29 PM 3/26/02 +0800, you wrote:
> >Hey Hey Ray.... can u shed some light on this? Were they really based of
> >Asians?? Fascinating but I never pictured them as Asians muhahaa. --->>>
> >
> ><manifo> hey no one
> ><Nevynn> muahahahaha
> ><Nevynn> hey
> ><manifo> Heheh those were good books
> ><Nevynn> pftt not really
> ><manifo> i liked em
> ><Nevynn> REF is better than KK
> ><manifo> sure feist is cool
> ><manifo> i read all his books too
> ><Nevynn> ya
> ><manifo> which was your favorite series
> ><manifo> the original with pug
> ><manifo> or the later with darkmoor
> ><manifo> or in between
> ><Nevynn> awwww
> ><Nevynn> well
> ><Nevynn> i dunno
> ><Nevynn> i liked em all so much
> ><manifo> trure
> ><manifo> the best time was with jimmy the hand and prince aruthra
> ><manifo> wasnt it shitty the way aruthra died
> ><manifo> fell off his horse like a chump
> ><Nevynn> LOL
> ><Nevynn> Yupp
> ><Nevynn> pffttt
> ><Nevynn> but
> ><Nevynn> I dont remember reading that he died
> ><Nevynn> LOL
> ><manifo> alot of people die for stpid reasons in his books
> ><manifo> like remember in the other continent, one of the convicts just
> >fell off his horse and broke his neck
> ><Nevynn> yes i remember that
> ><manifo> and then, remember that cool old soldier, owen, some stupid
> >soldier shot him in the head with a crossbow
> ><manifo> he was like goofing around and fire it backwards lol
> ><Nevynn> lol yes i remember that too
> ><manifo> i swear half the people in Feist's books die by accident
> ><Nevynn> LOL yeah maybe
> ><manifo> taking a shower in his books is more dangerous than fighting
> >thousands of goblins
> ><Nevynn> LOL!
> ><Nevynn> not that they shower at all
> ><manifo> well now you know why!
> ><Nevynn> LOL!!!
> ><Nevynn> actually
> ><Nevynn> my favourite book would have to me SoTE
> ><manifo> which one is that
> ><Nevynn> servent of the empire
> ><manifo> oh were those the ones that were co-written by feist with
> someone
> >else
> ><manifo> about that asian chick
> ><Nevynn> lol
> ><Nevynn> shes no asian
> ><Nevynn> shes tsurannian
> ><manifo> theyre asians
> ><manifo> from another dimension
> ><Nevynn> no there not
> ><Nevynn> lol
> ><manifo> yes they are
> ><Nevynn> NO
> ><Nevynn> lol
> ><manifo> theyre like feudal japanese
> ><Nevynn> dont ruin it for me!!
> ><Nevynn> lol
> ><manifo> yes they are
> ><manifo> dude their names are totally asian
> ><Nevynn> lol
> ><Nevynn> if u say so
> ><manifo> and every char in that realm has dark hair
> ><Nevynn> errr
> ><Nevynn> no
> ><Nevynn> Pugs wife was blonde
> ><manifo> you never realized they were asians?
> ><manifo> no she wasnt
> ><manifo> besides, pugs with wasnt tsurani remember
> ><manifo> she was mongolian
> ><Nevynn> LOL!!!!
> ><Nevynn> im gonna ask raymond about this
> ><Nevynn> hold on
> ><manifo> she was part of the nomadic tribes
> ><manifo> that lived near the asians
> ><manifo> therefore she must be mongolian
> >Thanks,
> >               Nevyn
> >_______________________________________________________________________
> >
> >Not every love, but only that which has a noble purpose, is noble and
> >worthy of praise.
> >
> >- Plato (c. 428-348 BC)
> >_______________________________________________________________________
>
>
>
>

Thanks
Darragh
-=-=
www.iamtheporkfireman.com
[Email]: s356179@student.uq.edu.au [ICQ]: 114283262



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From: "Rachel Unwin" <jeddasw@hotmail.com>
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From: "Rachel Unwin" <jeddasw@hotmail.com>
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Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 12:24:51 +1100
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I agree completely, Darragh.....and since many topics have been done
to death, maybe there should also be a list of topics that have been
discussed many times before; for those of us who are new to
feistfans!!!!
Rachel  
  
----- Original Message -----
>From: Darragh Murray
>Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2002 12:18 PM
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: Re: Film
>  
>> Am I the only one that feels Magician (and probably each and every book
>> after that) would make one the most amazing films.  Lord of the Rings was
>> good but for me personally it wouldnt even touch on how they could make the
>> Magician - though one does worry about what they would miss out in a film
>> version.
>> -Jim
>
>While this has been done-to-death, a quick point..
>
>I don't think the film media could do adequete justice to the books.
>
>Thanks
>Darragh
>-=-=
>www.iamtheporkfireman.com
>[Email]: s356179@student.uq.edu.au [ICQ]: 114283262Get more from the Web.  FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com

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Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 20:38:59 EST
Subject: Re: Film
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*** EOOH ***
From: Valheru22@aol.com
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 20:38:59 EST
Subject: Re: Film
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In a message dated 3/26/2002 5:37:13 PM Pacific Standard Time, 
jeddasw@hotmail.com writes:


> I agree completely, Darragh.....and since many topics have been done to 
> death, maybe there should also be a list of topics that have been discussed 
> many times before; for those of us who are new to feistfans!!!!
> Rachel 
> 

Thats a smart idea but I am gonna try and keep quiet on the list after 
haveing everybody pissed at me lately.
-Chance

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Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 19:13:51 -0800
Subject: Re: Spoilers (The Tsuruannis)
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 19:13:51 -0800
Subject: Re: Spoilers (The Tsuruannis)
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Tuesday, March 26, 2002, at 05:08 PM, Darragh Murray wrote:

> It's a matter of courtesy.
>
> Lots of people have read all the other books except the Empire trilogy, 
> as
> in their opinion its not necessary to read the books in chronological
> order.
>
> I think that spoiler space on all books, with perhaps the exception of
> Magician, is a good idea. Doesn't take that long.
>
>>

Given my backlist sales, there are people who are discovering Magician 
every day.  There are people who are "new" Feist readers.  It might be 
well to just make spoiler space a habit.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 19:15:15 -0800
Subject: Re: Film
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Tuesday, March 26, 2002, at 05:06 PM, Darragh Murray wrote:

>> Am I the only one that feels Magician (and probably each and every book
>> after that) would make one the most amazing films.  Lord of the Rings 
>> was
>> good but for me personally it wouldnt even touch on how they could 
>> make the
>> Magician - though one does worry about what they would miss out in a 
>> film
>> version.
>> -Jim
>
> While this has been done-to-death, a quick point..
>
> I don't think the film media could do adequete justice to the books.
>

Disagree.  With current CGI and makeup, it's possible.  Witness The Lord 
of the Rings, which while not a 100% literal filming of the book, was a 
damn fine adaptation.  I haven't seen Harry Potter yet, but my kids 
(who've read the books) loved it as well.  Even Dungeon's & Dragons was 
a well mounted and well produced bad script.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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From: "Sean Gilliam" <seanRRLincoln@neb.rr.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Film
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 22:03:50 -0600
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Sean Gilliam" <seanRRLincoln@neb.rr.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Film
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 22:03:50 -0600
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Have you ever been approached about adapting your books to film?

-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Raymond Feist
>Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2002 9:15 PM
>To: FEISTFANS-L
>Subject: Re: Film
>
>
>
>On Tuesday, March 26, 2002, at 05:06 PM, Darragh Murray wrote:
>
>>> Am I the only one that feels Magician (and probably each and every book
>>> after that) would make one the most amazing films.  Lord of the Rings 
>>> was
>>> good but for me personally it wouldnt even touch on how they could 
>>> make the
>>> Magician - though one does worry about what they would miss out in a 
>>> film
>>> version.
>>> -Jim
>>
>> While this has been done-to-death, a quick point..
>>
>> I don't think the film media could do adequete justice to the books.
>>
>
>Disagree.  With current CGI and makeup, it's possible.  Witness The Lord 
>of the Rings, which while not a 100% literal filming of the book, was a 
>damn fine adaptation.  I haven't seen Harry Potter yet, but my kids 
>(who've read the books) loved it as well.  Even Dungeon's & Dragons was 
>a well mounted and well produced bad script.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
>stupidity.
>



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 20:29:47 -0800
Subject: Re: Film
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Tuesday, March 26, 2002, at 08:03 PM, Sean Gilliam wrote:

> Have you ever been approached about adapting your books to film?
>

All the time.

As soon as the subject of money comes up, you'd be amazed at how many 
"film insiders" vanish.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Subject: Re: Film - D&D movie
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 23:00:39 -0700
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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Raymond Feist wrote:
> 
> Even Dungeon's & Dragons was a well mounted and well produced bad script.

Margaret Weis said once that releasing that movie in another country
"would be tantamount to a declaration of war." Personally, I agree with
her. I really didn't find much redeeming about that movie (not even Tom
Baker, and I'm a Whovian!).

Craig J. Ries



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From: Kenneth Jones <killkenny@thos.co.za>
Subject: Re: Spoilers (The Tsuruannis)
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 08:50:28 +0200
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Kenneth Jones <killkenny@thos.co.za>
Subject: Re: Spoilers (The Tsuruannis)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Apologies maybe I was out of line


>No offense Kenneth, but every passage they talk about in their 
>conversation is over 3 years old.   It is a long known fact that the list 
>usually puts spoiler spaces for stories that haven't come out in paperback 
>yet, but to put in spoiler spaces for ever single book that ever came out 
>because someone hasn't read it is going a little over the edge.  IMOHO, I 
>would delete any message the moment I saw a spoiler if I wasn't interested 
>in it.
>
>Russell S. Teeter

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References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020326124837.02e44940@midsouth.kih.net>
Subject: Re: Anyone got some info about.....
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 15:08:40 +0800
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Casey Parker" <itzswift@iinet.net.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Anyone got some info about.....
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 15:08:40 +0800
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Ahhh!!  Thanks for info man

I most likely will start the "Legends of the Riftwar" series once I finish
the Krondor Series...

Cheers
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sean Fister" <sean@hope.kih.net>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2002 2:00 AM
Subject: Re: Anyone got some info about.....


> At 12:44 PM 3/26/02, you wrote:
> >I was wondering if anyone knows anything about the "Conclave of Shadows"
> >Series or Book or Saga or whatever it is going to be released....?
> >
> >After only recently finishing Shard of a Broken Crown i need MOREE!!! ~>.<~
> >
> >So any info would be great.. thanks  !
> >
>
> Talon of the Silver Hawk, book 1 in the Conclave of Shadow Series, is due
> out in August in the UK according to amazon.co.uk and Spring of next year
> in the US.  In the meantime you can pick up book two of the Tales of the
> Riftwar Series, Murder in LaMut which is coauthored by Ray and Joel
> Rosenberg will be out in May in the UK, but not in the US due to some
> publishing issues.  I'm sure Ray and Joel would be delighted if you picked
> up a copy.
>
> Hope this helps,
>
> Sean Fister
>
>



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From: "Reinhardt Gerber" <Reinhardt@Basix.co.za>
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Reinhardt Gerber" <Reinhardt@Basix.co.za>
To: "Feist Mailing List" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Newbie
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 09:55:54 +0200
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Hi all... I'm new to this whole FeistFans thing, only subscribed two days
ago. I have been following
the email, trying to figure out how everything and everyone fit together.
I'm a big Feist fan, and read
all bought and read all his books at least three times over. It seems that
here in South Africa we recieve
news about REF's new books a bit later than the rest of the world.

But anyways, it's interesting listening to you guys, and I just thought I'd
say hi.

Cheers
Reinhardt



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 10:22:31 +0200
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Kenneth Jones <killkenny@thos.co.za>
Subject: Re: Newbie
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Welcome to the list. It is good to see another South African subscribe. It 
seems the fans of Feist in our country, are growing all the time.

Regards,
Kenneth Jones

At 09:55 AM 3/27/01 +0200, you wrote:
>Hi all... I'm new to this whole FeistFans thing, only subscribed two days
>ago.
>I have been following the email, trying to figure out how everything and 
>everyone fit together.
>I'm a big Feist fan, and read
>all bought and read all his books at least three times over. It seems that
>here in South Africa we recieve
>news about REF's new books a bit later than the rest of the world.
>
>But anyways, it's interesting listening to you guys, and I just thought I'd
>say hi.
>
>Cheers
>Reinhardt



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Subject: RE: Film
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 09:58:36 -0000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Holden" <james@globalvision.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Film
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 09:58:36 -0000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Hi,

Sorry, obviously I am new to this list and didn't realise the film issue was
a "done-to-death" topic, apologies to all!

-Jim



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To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
References: <EOEGLFBLIODKEIOHNAANOEKHDBAA.james@globalvision.com>
Subject: Re: Film
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 04:37:19 -0600
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Film
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 04:37:19 -0600
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

    That's fine, you asked, no one get bent out of shape, all is
well.  Some slights can be forgiven, it is repetitive stuff we
abhor.
    I posted the list of banned topics since Ray Chiang hasn't
posted the Information for Newbies in quite some time.  But speaking
of Ray is he gone from the list, lurking, or what?  If he isn't
occasionally posting it, does someone want to update the thing and
take over (and I don't suggest Psihawk, he and his cohort have
enough to do getting the FAQ back in order).

-James

----- Original Message -----
> Hi,
>
> Sorry, obviously I am new to this list and didn't realise the film issue was
> a "done-to-death" topic, apologies to all!
>
> -Jim
>



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*** EOOH ***
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Reinhardt Gerber" <Reinhardt@Basix.co.za>
To: "Feist Mailing List" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2001 6:55 PM
Subject: Newbie


> Hi all... I'm new to this whole FeistFans thing, only subscribed two days
> ago. I have been following
> the email, trying to figure out how everything and everyone fit together.
> I'm a big Feist fan, and read
> all bought and read all his books at least three times over. It seems that
> here in South Africa we recieve
> news about REF's new books a bit later than the rest of the world.
>
> But anyways, it's interesting listening to you guys, and I just thought I'd
> say hi.

Hey, Reinhardt, welcome to the list. Just don't ask about a movie, and we'll
get along just fine. ;)

Cheers,
James



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*** EOOH ***
From: "Reinhardt Gerber" <Reinhardt@Basix.co.za>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Newbie
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 13:37:59 +0200
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lol, I'll try to remember that...
I'm a part time musician, and as I was driving home last night a thought
came to me
(wich doesn't happen very often) to write a song about the world of
Midkemia.
(maybe more about Pg, but I'm still playing around with ideas.)

What do you guys think, will you help me with the wordsif I can draw up a
draft, then I'll
put it into music???

Reinhardt

> Hey, Reinhardt, welcome to the list. Just don't ask about a movie, and we'll
> get along just fine. ;)
>
> Cheers,
> James
>



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*** EOOH ***
From: JEEPMONSTER69@aol.com
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 08:30:42 EST
Subject: Re: Film
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

In a message dated 3/26/2002 10:20:07 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
raymond@bittersea.com writes:


> Disagree.  With current CGI and makeup, it's possible.  Witness The Lord 
> of the Rings, which while not a 100% literal filming of the book, was a 
> damn fine adaptation.  I haven't seen Harry Potter yet, but my kids 
> (who've read the books) loved it as well.  Even Dungeon's & Dragons was 
> a well mounted and well produced bad script.
> 
> Best, R.E.F.
> 

That reminds me, Ray- as a world-famous fantasy author, what do you think of 
Harry Potter?

                                                             Peace,
                                                                   Matt
"Lets Roll."- Todd Beamer
USA, Muthafacko!

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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 15:36:34 +0200
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Kenneth Jones <killkenny@thos.co.za>
Subject: Re: Film
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

OK I am shocked, please read the part I have bolded below.

At 08:30 AM 3/27/02 -0500, you wrote:
>In a message dated 3/26/2002 10:20:07 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
>raymond@bittersea.com writes:
>
>
>>Disagree.  With current CGI and makeup, it's possible.  Witness The Lord
>>of the Rings, which while not a 100% literal filming of the book, was a
>>damn fine adaptation.  I haven't seen Harry Potter yet, but my kids
>>(who've read the books) loved it as well.  Even Dungeon's & Dragons was
>>a well mounted and well produced bad script.
>>
>>Best, R.E.F.
>
>
>That reminds me, Ray- as a world-famous fantasy author, what do you think 
>of Harry Potter?
>
>                                                             Peace,
>                                                                   Matt
>"Lets Roll."- Todd Beamer
>USA, Muthafacko!
>

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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 14:00:24 +0000
From: darren <darren@web-bitch.co.uk>
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
To: Kenneth Jones <killkenny@thos.co.za>
CC: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu ((FEISTFANS-L))
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

On 27 March 2002 at 13:36:34, Kenneth Jones <killkenny@thos.co.za> wrote:

KJ> OK I am shocked, please read the part I have bolded below.

ummm...you do realize that this only works for people who actually bother
to read the html parts of an email? :>

a lot of people don't (me for one) and, if possible, you should send plain
text to the mailing list.

cheers,

darren



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From: Kenneth Jones <killkenny@thos.co.za>
Subject: Re: Film
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 16:20:05 +0200
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Kenneth Jones <killkenny@thos.co.za>
Subject: Re: Film
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Sorry it is a feature in my mail program (Eudora).

I did not think it had HTML stuff in it.

Sorry.

At 02:00 PM 3/27/02 +0000, you wrote:
>On 27 March 2002 at 13:36:34, Kenneth Jones <killkenny@thos.co.za> wrote:
>
>KJ> OK I am shocked, please read the part I have bolded below.
>
>ummm...you do realize that this only works for people who actually bother
>to read the html parts of an email? :>
>
>a lot of people don't (me for one) and, if possible, you should send plain
>text to the mailing list.
>
>cheers,
>
>darren



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Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 14:37:51 +0000
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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: Film
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020327161919.00ab9960@elvandar.thos.co.za>
References: <15913045538.20020327140024@web-bitch.co.uk>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20020327153543.00abce20@elvandar.thos.co.za>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20020327153543.00abce20@elvandar.thos.co.za>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 14:37:51 +0000
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: Film
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Not your fault.  The email client marketing people seem to think
that you haven't experienced life until you've sent 80 characters
of plain text, wrapped by 2k of silly formatting.

In Eudora, Tools->options... deselect 'show formatting toolbar'
and select option 'send plain text only'.  After about three
emails, you'll get used to using /other/ methods to hilight
text ;->, that it will be second nature...

rip

At 02:20 PM 3/27/02, Kenneth Jones wrote:
>Sorry it is a feature in my mail program (Eudora).
>
>I did not think it had HTML stuff in it.
>
>Sorry.
>
>At 02:00 PM 3/27/02 +0000, you wrote:
>>On 27 March 2002 at 13:36:34, Kenneth Jones <killkenny@thos.co.za> wrote:
>>
>>KJ> OK I am shocked, please read the part I have bolded below.
>>
>>ummm...you do realize that this only works for people who actually bother
>>to read the html parts of an email? :>
>>
>>a lot of people don't (me for one) and, if possible, you should send plain
>>text to the mailing list.
>>
>>cheers,
>>
>>darren



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Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 07:49:40 -0800
Subject: Re: Film
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From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 07:49:40 -0800
Subject: Re: Film
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Wednesday, March 27, 2002, at 05:30 AM, JEEPMONSTER69@aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 3/26/2002 10:20:07 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
> raymond@bittersea.com writes:
>
>
> Disagree.  With current CGI and makeup, it's possible.  Witness The Lord
> of the Rings, which while not a 100% literal filming of the book, was a
> damn fine adaptation.  I haven't seen Harry Potter yet, but my kids
> (who've read the books) loved it as well.  Even Dungeon's & Dragons was
> a well mounted and well produced bad script.
>
> Best, R.E.F.
>
>
>
> That reminds me, Ray- as a world-famous fantasy author, what do you 
> think of Harry Potter?
>
>

It's a phenomena.  Joanna Rowling's went from "who?" to the most 
powerful author in history in less than two years.

I haven't read them, yet, but I will get around to it next year after 
some deadlines pass.

I'll see the video when it comes out next month.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.

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Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 08:20:39 -0800 (PST)
X-PH: V4.1@cornell.edu (Cornell Modified) 
From: Dun Xiahou <xiahoudun13@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Film - D&D movie
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
In-Reply-To: <3CA16007.1CA9B53@yifan.net>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 08:20:39 -0800 (PST)
From: Dun Xiahou <xiahoudun13@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Film - D&D movie
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

One thing I found particularly odd was that the
actress who played the Empress (forgot her name) I
thought was excellent in American Beauty.  However her
performance in D&D was absolutely dreadful.  At least
Jeremy Irons attempted to do something with tha
horrendous script.

- Xiahou Dun

--- "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net> wrote:
> Raymond Feist wrote:
> > 
> > Even Dungeon's & Dragons was a well mounted and
> well produced bad script.
> 
> Margaret Weis said once that releasing that movie in
> another country
> "would be tantamount to a declaration of war."
> Personally, I agree with
> her. I really didn't find much redeeming about that
> movie (not even Tom
> Baker, and I'm a Whovian!).
> 
> Craig J. Ries
> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards®
http://movies.yahoo.com/



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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Andrea J Chee <andrea@bloodaxe.com>
Subject: Re: Film
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020327161919.00ab9960@elvandar.thos.co.za>
 <15913045538.20020327140024@web-bitch.co.uk>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20020327153543.00abce20@elvandar.thos.co.za>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20020327153543.00abce20@elvandar.thos.co.za>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20020327143249.00f13ab0@mail.swindon.wrsec.fr>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20020327164452.00a4e1b0@elvandar.thos.co.za>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 16:27:26 +0000
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Andrea J Chee <andrea@bloodaxe.com>
Subject: Re: Film
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

In article <5.1.0.14.2.20020327164452.00a4e1b0@elvandar.thos.co.za>,
Kenneth Jones <killkenny@thos.co.za> writes
>Only thing it I should know these things, seeing as I am a web developer. I 
>just always thought it was a standars in the e-mail world {:-)

That's just your age and generation showing itself. If you'd arrived a
decade ago, you'd have spent the last few years watching the arrival of
HTML email with the same enjoyment as listening to someone run their
fingernails across a blackboard, but these days it's not terribly clear
what you're supposed to do and all the bells and whistles on modern mail
and newsreaders don't help. Most 'old timers' have been in the habit so
long that they get nervous using anything other than 7-bit ASCII. I
still feel 'wrong' putting a UK pound sign in instead of GBP, even for a
recipient who I know will see it displayed correctly.

In general, HTML is used for the web and ASCII for Usenet newsgroups,
mailing lists and business email. Personal email can be either,
depending on whether you know the recipient is happy to receive HTML or
not.

- ANDREA

-- 
^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^
                  ANDROMEDA - Internet Goddess
<andrea@bloodaxe.com>                    http://www.bloodaxe.com/
Bloodaxe's History Links:   http://www.geocities.com/Athens/5055/
The Loony Bin Archive:               http://www.theloonies.co.uk/



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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Kenneth Jones <killkenny@thos.co.za>
Subject: Re: Film
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020327143249.00f13ab0@mail.swindon.wrsec.fr>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020327161919.00ab9960@elvandar.thos.co.za>
 <15913045538.20020327140024@web-bitch.co.uk>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20020327153543.00abce20@elvandar.thos.co.za>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20020327153543.00abce20@elvandar.thos.co.za>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 16:45:53 +0200
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Kenneth Jones <killkenny@thos.co.za>
Subject: Re: Film
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Only thing it I should know these things, seeing as I am a web developer. I 
just always thought it was a standars in the e-mail world {:-)

At 02:37 PM 3/27/02 +0000, you wrote:
>Not your fault.  The email client marketing people seem to think
>that you haven't experienced life until you've sent 80 characters
>of plain text, wrapped by 2k of silly formatting.
>
>In Eudora, Tools->options... deselect 'show formatting toolbar'
>and select option 'send plain text only'.  After about three
>emails, you'll get used to using /other/ methods to hilight
>text ;->, that it will be second nature...
>
>rip



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From: "Michael Gibson" <mike@gibbyco.freeserve.co.uk>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Film
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 22:36:08 -0000
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From: "Michael Gibson" <mike@gibbyco.freeserve.co.uk>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Film
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 22:36:08 -0000
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> On Tuesday, March 26, 2002, at 05:06 PM, Darragh Murray wrote:
>
> >> Am I the only one that feels Magician (and probably each and every book
> >> after that) would make one the most amazing films.  Lord of the Rings
> >> was
> >> good but for me personally it wouldnt even touch on how they could
> >> make the
> >> Magician - though one does worry about what they would miss out in a
> >> film
> >> version.
> >> -Jim
> >
> > While this has been done-to-death, a quick point..
> >
> > I don't think the film media could do adequete justice to the books.
> >
>
> Disagree.  With current CGI and makeup, it's possible.  Witness The Lord
> of the Rings, which while not a 100% literal filming of the book, was a
> damn fine adaptation.  I haven't seen Harry Potter yet, but my kids
> (who've read the books) loved it as well.  Even Dungeon's & Dragons was
> a well mounted and well produced bad script.
>
> Best, R.E.F.

It is incredible - it's almost got to the point that "they" can do pretty much
what they want with the image (provided they have the budget).  The way the
hobbits were morphed astounded me, and seeing the mass of orcs on one of the
trailers (I presume of RotK) shows just how well they can generate large numbers
of creatures.

Now it seems the major factor is the book -> film transition - what bits to
leave out to make the film the right length, and how to make the resultant
picture appeal to the "mainstream".

On a side note, have you ever watched a series called "Manchild"?  It's a recent
BBC production, starring Nigel Havers and Anthony Head, and watching it made me
think about some of the things you've said here in the past.

Mike,
Gibfish of the West

"Better to light a candle than to curse the darkness."
Confucius



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From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Film
In-Reply-To: <EOEGLFBLIODKEIOHNAANOEKHDBAA.james@globalvision.com>
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Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 08:47:50 +1000 (GMT+1000)
From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Film
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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There has been some "semi-official" documentation on the film issue.

IIRC its in the Feistfaq - www.psihawk.com/feist

> Hi,
>
> Sorry, obviously I am new to this list and didn't realise the film issue was
> a "done-to-death" topic, apologies to all!
>
> -Jim
>
>

Thanks
Darragh
-=-=
www.iamtheporkfireman.com
[Email]: s356179@student.uq.edu.au [ICQ]: 114283262



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Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 15:33:40 -0800
Subject: Re: Film
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Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 15:33:40 -0800
Subject: Re: Film
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Wednesday, March 27, 2002, at 02:36 PM, Michael Gibson wrote:

>> On Tuesday, March 26, 2002, at 05:06 PM, Darragh Murray wrote:
>>
>>>> Am I the only one that feels Magician (and probably each and every 
>>>> book
>>>> after that) would make one the most amazing films.  Lord of the Rings
>>>> was
>>>> good but for me personally it wouldnt even touch on how they could
>>>> make the
>>>> Magician - though one does worry about what they would miss out in a
>>>> film
>>>> version.
>>>> -Jim
>>>
>>> While this has been done-to-death, a quick point..
>>>
>>> I don't think the film media could do adequete justice to the books.
>>>
>>
>> Disagree.  With current CGI and makeup, it's possible.  Witness The 
>> Lord
>> of the Rings, which while not a 100% literal filming of the book, was a
>> damn fine adaptation.  I haven't seen Harry Potter yet, but my kids
>> (who've read the books) loved it as well.  Even Dungeon's & Dragons was
>> a well mounted and well produced bad script.
>>
>> Best, R.E.F.
>
> It is incredible - it's almost got to the point that "they" can do 
> pretty much
> what they want with the image (provided they have the budget).  The way 
> the
> hobbits were morphed astounded me, and seeing the mass of orcs on one 
> of the
> trailers (I presume of RotK) shows just how well they can generate 
> large numbers
> of creatures.
>
> Now it seems the major factor is the book -> film transition - what 
> bits to
> leave out to make the film the right length, and how to make the 
> resultant
> picture appeal to the "mainstream".
>
> On a side note, have you ever watched a series called "Manchild"?  It's 
> a recent
> BBC production, starring Nigel Havers and Anthony Head, and watching it 
> made me
> think about some of the things you've said here in the past.
>
>
>

Haven't seen Manchild.  I don't know if it's made it to these shores, 
yet.  I'll check out BBC America and PBS to watch for it.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Subject: OT Re: Manchild (Re: Film)
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Gibson" <mike@gibbyco.freeserve.co.uk>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2002 9:36 AM
Subject: RE: Film


> On a side note, have you ever watched a series called "Manchild"?  It's a recent
> BBC production, starring Nigel Havers and Anthony Head, and watching it made me
> think about some of the things you've said here in the past.

"Manchild"? Wow... one of my friends has carried that nickname for about
four years (due to him having the brain of a grown man, and the body of a
child *grin*), and I can't remember who gave it to him or if it was inspired
by something...

Was this series based on a book or something similar?

Cheers,
James



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Subject: RE: OT Re: Manchild (Re: Film)
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From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: OT Re: Manchild (Re: Film)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 12:33:20 +0800
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Is that Anthony Head aka Giles the Watcher?

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu 
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of James Barker
> Sent: Thursday, 28 March 2002 9:58 AM
> To: FEISTFANS-L
> Subject: OT Re: Manchild (Re: Film)
> 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Michael Gibson" <mike@gibbyco.freeserve.co.uk>
> To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2002 9:36 AM
> Subject: RE: Film
> 
> 
> > On a side note, have you ever watched a series called 
> "Manchild"?  It's a
> recent
> > BBC production, starring Nigel Havers and Anthony Head, and 
> watching it
> made me
> > think about some of the things you've said here in the past.
> 
> "Manchild"? Wow... one of my friends has carried that 
> nickname for about
> four years (due to him having the brain of a grown man, and 
> the body of a
> child *grin*), and I can't remember who gave it to him or if 
> it was inspired
> by something...
> 
> Was this series based on a book or something similar?
> 
> Cheers,
> James
> 



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Subject: Re: OT Re: Manchild (Re: Film)
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 20:56:13 -0800
Subject: Re: OT Re: Manchild (Re: Film)
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Wednesday, March 27, 2002, at 08:33 PM, David Pengelley wrote:

> Is that Anthony Head aka Giles the Watcher?
>

Must be.  Guild rules prohibit actors from having the same name, which 
is why "Billy" Campbell isn't William Campbell, who is still alive and 
working.  Helena Botham Carter uses her middle name because Helena 
Carter, and actress from the 1930's, is still alive and registered with 
SAG as active.

His brother Murray  Head starred in the West End production of Chess, 
too.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 22:57:03 -0700
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT Re: Manchild (Re: Film)
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Raymond Feist wrote:
> 
> Must be.  Guild rules prohibit actors from having the same name, which
> is why "Billy" Campbell isn't William Campbell, who is still alive and
> working.

Head usually goes by Anthony Stewart Head though afaik.

> Helena Botham Carter uses her middle name because Helena
> Carter, and actress from the 1930's, is still alive and registered with
> SAG as active.

What a god-awful stupid rule :)

Jason Lee, Jason Scott Lee... same thing there then.

Craig J. Ries



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Subject: RE: OT Re: Manchild (Re: Film)
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*** EOOH ***
From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: OT Re: Manchild (Re: Film)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 14:08:03 +0800
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu 
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Craig J. Ries
> Sent: Thursday, 28 March 2002 1:57 PM
> To: FEISTFANS-L
> Subject: Re: OT Re: Manchild (Re: Film)
> 
> 
> Raymond Feist wrote:
> > 
> > Must be.  Guild rules prohibit actors from having the same 
> name, which
> > is why "Billy" Campbell isn't William Campbell, who is 
> still alive and
> > working.

I know in Buffy he was always listed as Anthony Stewart Head, but I've
head him referred to as Anthony Head or even Tony by some people.

> 
> Head usually goes by Anthony Stewart Head though afaik.
> 
> > Helena Botham Carter uses her middle name because Helena
> > Carter, and actress from the 1930's, is still alive and 
> registered with
> > SAG as active.
> 
> What a god-awful stupid rule :)

The rule isn't that bad, it does make some sense in that people can
instantly know which person you are talking about by the mention of a
middle name or initial.

> 
> Jason Lee, Jason Scott Lee... same thing there then.
> 
> Craig J. Ries
> 



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Subject: Re: OT Re: Manchild (Re: Film)
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 00:27:30 -0800 (PST)
From: Dun Xiahou <xiahoudun13@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: OT Re: Manchild (Re: Film)
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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Well, the word "manchild" reminds me of a book
entitled "Manchild in a Promised Land."  Never read
it, but supposedly it is one of those "must read
because it was so controversial" type books of the
60s.  Kind of like Catcher in the Rye.

- Xiahou Dun

--- James Barker <heechee@softhome.net> wrote:
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Michael Gibson"
> <mike@gibbyco.freeserve.co.uk>
> To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2002 9:36 AM
> Subject: RE: Film
> 
> 
> > On a side note, have you ever watched a series
> called "Manchild"?  It's a
> recent
> > BBC production, starring Nigel Havers and Anthony
> Head, and watching it
> made me
> > think about some of the things you've said here in
> the past.
> 
> "Manchild"? Wow... one of my friends has carried
> that nickname for about
> four years (due to him having the brain of a grown
> man, and the body of a
> child *grin*), and I can't remember who gave it to
> him or if it was inspired
> by something...
> 
> Was this series based on a book or something
> similar?
> 
> Cheers,
> James
> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards®
http://movies.yahoo.com/



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 01:32:11 -0800
Subject: Re: OT Re: Manchild (Re: Film)
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
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On Wednesday, March 27, 2002, at 09:57 PM, Craig J. Ries wrote:

> Raymond Feist wrote:
>>
>> Must be.  Guild rules prohibit actors from having the same name, which
>> is why "Billy" Campbell isn't William Campbell, who is still alive and
>> working.
>
> Head usually goes by Anthony Stewart Head though afaik.

He actually started out as "Tony Head," years ago, but decided to go 
more "formal."  Those on the list old enough will remember when they 
were Larry Fishburn and Sam Jackson, too.

>
>> Helena Botham Carter uses her middle name because Helena
>> Carter, and actress from the 1930's, is still alive and registered with
>> SAG as active.
>
> What a god-awful stupid rule :)
>
> Jason Lee, Jason Scott Lee... same thing there then.

Yup, and it's not a stupid rule, as any actor will tell you.

Best, R.E.F.

----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 01:35:47 -0800
Subject: Re: OT Re: Manchild (Re: Film)
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On Thursday, March 28, 2002, at 12:27 AM, Dun Xiahou wrote:

> Well, the word "manchild" reminds me of a book
> entitled "Manchild in a Promised Land."  Never read
> it, but supposedly it is one of those "must read
> because it was so controversial" type books of the
> 60s.  Kind of like Catcher in the Rye.
>

Claude Brown.  It's a riviting book which will teach you about the 
foundation of the African-American culture in the 1940's and '50's.  
It's a thinly fictionalized autobiography which will help you understand 
the rise of the Civil Rights movement in the 1960's.  It's right up 
there, IMHO, with the works of Richard Wright, James Baldwin, and The 
Autobiography of Malcom X.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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From: "Stuart Maher" <stuart.maher@ntlworld.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: OT Re: Manchild (Re: Film)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 09:41:12 -0000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Stuart Maher" <stuart.maher@ntlworld.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: OT Re: Manchild (Re: Film)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 09:41:12 -0000
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The same.

He filmed this whilst Joss Weddon thrashed out the details on RIpper and
penned the pilot. They are supposedly filming it soon.

Manchild is about 4 blokes who are all around the 49 mark. Through one way
or another they find themselves independently wealthy and for the most part
single again. In the blind panic of realising 50 is around the corner they
end up acting like they are 20 years younger. (Anthony Stewarts Character is
reguarly taking home 20/30 someting women).

It's very good. If it does make it to the States (BBC America... is that for
real??) then I suggest watching it!

Stu

-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of David Pengelley
>Sent: 28 March 2002 04:33
>To: FEISTFANS-L
>Subject: RE: OT Re: Manchild (Re: Film)
>
>
>Is that Anthony Head aka Giles the Watcher?
>


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Subject: Re: OT Re: Manchild (Re: Film)
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 02:11:52 -0800
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu, FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: LAR <lds627@attbi.com>
Subject: Re: OT Re: Manchild (Re: Film)
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At 01:32 AM 3/28/02 -0800, Raymond Feist wrote:

>>What a god-awful stupid rule :)
>>
>>Jason Lee, Jason Scott Lee... same thing there then.
>
>Yup, and it's not a stupid rule, as any actor will tell you.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>
>----

As a member of both AFTRA. SAG and Equity I agree it is NOT a stupid rule. 
It took me years to get enough continuous credits for my equity card, and I 
was damn proud of it. Of course with a last name like Starkand, I hardly 
had to worry about somebody else getting the name. It did make it difficult 
to keep track of some of my friends though. I.E. G. Douglas Ray who had to 
change to Ray Douglas because Douglas Ray was already taken.

Larry



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From: LAR <lds627@attbi.com>
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At 09:41 AM 3/28/02 +0000, Stuart Maher wrote:
>The same.
>
>He filmed this whilst Joss Weddon thrashed out the details on RIpper and


Ripper? As in Rupert Giles is getting his own show?



>It's very good. If it does make it to the States (BBC America... is that for
>real??) then I suggest watching it!

Yah, it is for a real,. Which means we no longer have to depend on Comedy 
Central and PBS for our Britcoms

Larry


>Stu
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of David Pengelley
>Sent: 28 March 2002 04:33
>To: FEISTFANS-L
>Subject: RE: OT Re: Manchild (Re: Film)
>
>
>Is that Anthony Head aka Giles the Watcher?



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Subject: RE: OT Re: Manchild (Re: Film)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 10:40:45 -0000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Stuart Maher" <stuart.maher@ntlworld.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: OT Re: Manchild (Re: Film)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 10:40:45 -0000
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Yeah, It's being done by the BBC so I don't know if it is planned for airing
in the states (I understand there has been a downturn in Buffy mania over
there in the last few years whereas here it's still huge).

It's meant to be aimed at a more adult market. Giles returns to his west
country home to retire from the council buisness and lead a quiet life
(After the hectic years of Sunnydale) but gets drawn into some supernatural
adventures in the rural west country. It's more of a ghost hunter series
then kick boxing demons and pom-poms.

Mabye you'll get it on BBC America ;-)

Stu

-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of LAR
>Sent: 28 March 2002 10:14
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu; FEISTFANS-L
>Subject: RE: OT Re: Manchild (Re: Film)
>
>
>At 09:41 AM 3/28/02 +0000, Stuart Maher wrote:
>>The same.
>>
>>He filmed this whilst Joss Weddon thrashed out the details on RIpper and
>
>
>Ripper? As in Rupert Giles is getting his own show?
>
>
>
>>It's very good. If it does make it to the States (BBC America... is that
>for
>>real??) then I suggest watching it!
>
>Yah, it is for a real,. Which means we no longer have to depend on Comedy
>Central and PBS for our Britcoms
>
>Larry
>


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Subject: [OT] Anthony S. Head]  (Was RE: OT Re: Manchild (Re: Film))
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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Anestis Kozakis <kenosti@labyrinth.net.au>
Subject: [OT] Anthony S. Head]  (Was RE: OT Re: Manchild (Re: Film))
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>At 09:41 AM 3/28/02 +0000, Stuart Maher wrote:
>>The same.
>>
>>He filmed this whilst Joss Weddon thrashed out the details on RIpper and
>
>
>Ripper? As in Rupert Giles is getting his own show?

Yep.  Written by Joss, and going to be filmed in the UK, and going to 
be the usual UK 6 episodes per season.

It also gives Anthony a chance to to be closer to his family.

>Larry

[snip]

Anestis.
-- 
kenosti@labyrinth.net.au
"A complete list of this film's associate producers
  is available upon request."
    -- In End Credits for "State and Main"



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From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Now:  BBC
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020328021321.00a53040@mail.attbi.com>
References: <EBEBLBMMPLJPHDJHNEHPGEIFCCAA.stuart.maher@ntlworld.com>
 <000c01c1d611$b17ad5d0$2100a8c0@pengelley.com>
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Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 11:05:31 +0000
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Now:  BBC
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LAR said:
>Yah, it is for a real,. Which means we no longer have to 
>depend on Comedy Central and PBS for our Britcoms

Do they show non-BBC produced stuff?  ie, buy the rebroadcast
rights from one of the independent channels here, for the
US market?  

;-> And how would you even know if it was BBC home-grown or
from ITV?

Anyway, if you see "Black Books" listed, I'd recommend watching
it for Bill Bailey alone.  And if you see any of the Bill Bailey
one-offs, I'd recommend those, too.

"The Cockney influences on Beethoven?  unmistakeable" ... and 
kitchen/garden tools, ie how to slice bread with a, for example,
chainsaw...

rip



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 <000c01c1d611$b17ad5d0$2100a8c0@pengelley.com>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20020328110046.00f151f0@mail.swindon.wrsec.fr>
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 04:42:26 -0800
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Subject: Re: Now:  BBC
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 04:42:26 -0800
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Alan Kellogg <mythusmage@cts.com>
Subject: Re: Now:  BBC
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>LAR said:
>>Yah, it is for a real,. Which means we no longer have to
>>depend on Comedy Central and PBS for our Britcoms
>
>Do they show non-BBC produced stuff?  ie, buy the rebroadcast
>rights from one of the independent channels here, for the
>US market? 
>
>;-> And how would you even know if it was BBC home-grown or
>from ITV?
>
>Anyway, if you see "Black Books" listed, I'd recommend watching
>it for Bill Bailey alone.  And if you see any of the Bill Bailey
>one-offs, I'd recommend those, too.
>
>"The Cockney influences on Beethoven?  unmistakeable" ... and
>kitchen/garden tools, ie how to slice bread with a, for example,
>chainsaw...
>
>rip

BBC America is a co-production of the BBC and the Discovery Channel . 
It's pretty much all BBC programming, with the addition of 
commercials. In return the Discovery Channel gets to air BBC science 
documentaries over their channels. "Big Cat Diary" (The Learning 
Channel) is one example of a BBC programme that aired on one of the 
Discovery Channel channels.

Alan
-- 
Writing Practice at: <http://www.gamingoutpost.com>



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*** EOOH ***
From: "Jason Martin" <res0b95g@verizon.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Need help
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 04:43:07 -0800
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Ok, if you respond, please do so off the list.  Basically my problem is I am
having trouble getting Java stuff to load and run while using IE6.0.  I have
Win98SE and have deleted all the temp files.  Also I have
reupdated/resintalled IE6.0 but it still seems to hang when it goes to load
Java stuff ( Yahoo games).  I can not I believe run scandisk at the moment.
When I try it seems to not get past the folder stuff.  It gets about half
way and starts over.  I may not be letting it run long enough (going to try
again and let it go for a few hours).  All my other stuff and programs work
great.  And yes you Netscape people Java works for the Yahoo Games for that.
I just can not figure out why its not working all of a sudden for IE.  Any
advice would be much appreciated, and please send so off list.

Thanks,

Jason
"Too much knowlege never makes for simple decisions."
                           Ghanima- Children of Dune



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From: "Jason Martin" <res0b95g@verizon.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Problem Fixed
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 08:36:07 -0800
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I got the problem fixed with some help from this wonderful list.  I endued
up resinatlling Java VM but with the newest build.  So hopefully this will
not be a every month thing.  Thanks for the help from all the people that
responded.   And to actually think I was getting ready to Wipe the HD and
reinstall.  Though I probably should, its been about a year!

Jason

"Too much knowlege never makes for simple decisions."
                           Ghanima- Children of Dune



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Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 08:41:02 -0800
Subject: Re: OT Re: Manchild (Re: Film)
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 08:41:02 -0800
Subject: Re: OT Re: Manchild (Re: Film)
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
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On Thursday, March 28, 2002, at 01:41 AM, Stuart Maher wrote:

> The same.
>
> He filmed this whilst Joss Weddon thrashed out the details on RIpper and
> penned the pilot. They are supposedly filming it soon.
>
> Manchild is about 4 blokes who are all around the 49 mark. Through one 
> way
> or another they find themselves independently wealthy and for the most 
> part
> single again. In the blind panic of realising 50 is around the corner 
> they
> end up acting like they are 20 years younger. (Anthony Stewarts 
> Character is
> reguarly taking home 20/30 someting women).
>
> It's very good. If it does make it to the States (BBC America... is 
> that for
> real??) then I suggest watching it!
>

BBC America is for real.  It's a cable/satellite channel here.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 16:38:53 -0700
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT Re: Manchild (Re: Film)
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Raymond Feist wrote:
> 
> On Wednesday, March 27, 2002, at 09:57 PM, Craig J. Ries wrote:
> 
> > Raymond Feist wrote:
> >>
> >> Must be.  Guild rules prohibit actors from having the same name, which
> >> is why "Billy" Campbell isn't William Campbell, who is still alive and
> >> working.
> >
> > Head usually goes by Anthony Stewart Head though afaik.
> 
> He actually started out as "Tony Head," years ago, but decided to go
> more "formal."  Those on the list old enough will remember when they
> were Larry Fishburn and Sam Jackson, too.
> 
> >
> >> Helena Botham Carter uses her middle name because Helena
> >> Carter, and actress from the 1930's, is still alive and registered with
> >> SAG as active.
> >
> > What a god-awful stupid rule :)
> >
> > Jason Lee, Jason Scott Lee... same thing there then.
> 
> Yup, and it's not a stupid rule, as any actor will tell you.

Then explain how there were two Kevin Smiths (until the one from Xena
died in that accident in China recently). :)

I've never liked that actors change their names (Nicholas Cage, for
example, named himself after a comic book character because he didn't
want the baggage of the name 'Coppola', since he is the nephew of
Francis Ford Coppola).

But myself, I include my initial because my father and I have the same
first name, different middle name. I wouldn't use it if I didn't have
to.
Obviously, Jason Lee and Jason Scott Lee are not related, so I don't see
why the distinction should be made by the inclusion of a middle name.

Craig J. Ries



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Subject: OT: Britcoms
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 16:51:23 -0700
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: OT: Britcoms
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LAR wrote:
> 
> Yah, it is for a real,. Which means we no longer have to depend on Comedy
> Central and PBS for our Britcoms

BBC America sucks, imo :)
Don't really care much for what Comedy Central aired either for
Britcoms.

I relied solely on PBS... then again, I had Iowa Public Television,
which was and still is excellent about showing British comedies.
Possibly one of the best in the country.
"Are You Being Served" and "Being Served... Again", we've had "Mr.
Bean", the tv version of HHGttG, "Fawlty Towers", "Monty Python's Flying
Circus" (just before A&E apparently bought the rights :P), "The Thin
Blue Line", "Brittas Empire", etc etc.
And this is on top of Red Dwarf, Doctor Who, and other British sci-fi
shows :)

Only thing I've seen here in Denver that I hadn't seen in Iowa was "Dark
Ages" a tv mini-series from one of the creators of Red Dwarf.

All things considered, I hate the PBS stations here in Denver and I
sorely miss IPTV.

Craig J. Ries



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Subject: Re: OT Stage names
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 00:08:06 +0000
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*** EOOH ***
From: lds627@attbi.com
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT Stage names
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 00:08:06 +0000
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As to the Two Kevin Smiths, the most likely answer is 
different unions. Kevin Smith the director would likely 
be a member of SAG (Screen Actors Guild), The directors 
union and the Writers union. For television and radio, 
there is AFTRA - American Federation of Television and 
Radio Actors.

More, correct me if I am wrong, aren't they in two 
different countries? Most of the unions do not enforce 
name registration internationally. I.E. it is possible 
to have another Larry Starkand in British Equity, 
assuming that I did not register over there.
> Raymond Feist wrote:
> > 
> > On Wednesday, March 27, 2002, at 09:57 PM, Craig J. Ries wrote:
> > 
> > > Raymond Feist wrote:
> > >>
> > >> Must be.  Guild rules prohibit actors from having the same name, which
> > >> is why "Billy" Campbell isn't William Campbell, who is still alive and
> > >> working.
> > >
> > > Head usually goes by Anthony Stewart Head though afaik.
> > 
> > He actually started out as "Tony Head," years ago, but decided to go
> > more "formal."  Those on the list old enough will remember when they
> > were Larry Fishburn and Sam Jackson, too.
> > 
> > >
> > >> Helena Botham Carter uses her middle name because Helena
> > >> Carter, and actress from the 1930's, is still alive and registered with
> > >> SAG as active.
> > >
> > > What a god-awful stupid rule :)
> > >
> > > Jason Lee, Jason Scott Lee... same thing there then.
> > 
> > Yup, and it's not a stupid rule, as any actor will tell you.
> 
> Then explain how there were two Kevin Smiths (until the one from Xena
> died in that accident in China recently). :)
> 


> I've never liked that actors change their names (Nicholas Cage, for
> example, named himself after a comic book character because he didn't
> want the baggage of the name 'Coppola', since he is the nephew of
> Francis Ford Coppola).
> 
> But myself, I include my initial because my father and I have the same
> first name, different middle name. I wouldn't use it if I didn't have
> to.
> Obviously, Jason Lee and Jason Scott Lee are not related, so I don't see
> why the distinction should be made by the inclusion of a middle name.
> 
> Craig J. Ries
> 



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Subject: Re: OT Re: Manchild (Re: Film)
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*** EOOH ***
From: lds627@attbi.com
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT Re: Manchild (Re: Film)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 00:12:15 +0000
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One last item. On Jason Lee and Jason Scott Lee. The 
answer is BOX OFFICE. The name of a well known 
personality is worth something to producers and actors. 
If you read the paper and see a movie directed by Steven 
Spielberg, you don't want to go see it and find out it 
was not THAT Steven Spielberg. Ray is another example, 
his name on a book, even if it is just a blurb is a 
marketable commodity. While authors can be distinguished 
by their published work, for actors it is a different 
story. For that same reason, many actors push to have 
their name above the title, even if it means less money 
up front. They are increasing the marketability and 
exposure of their sole commodity, their name. Think in 
terms of product branding and copyright and you may get 
the idea.


Larry
> Raymond Feist wrote:
> > 
> > On Wednesday, March 27, 2002, at 09:57 PM, Craig J. Ries wrote:
> > 
> > > Raymond Feist wrote:
> > >>
> > >> Must be.  Guild rules prohibit actors from having the same name, which
> > >> is why "Billy" Campbell isn't William Campbell, who is still alive and
> > >> working.
> > >
> > > Head usually goes by Anthony Stewart Head though afaik.
> > 
> > He actually started out as "Tony Head," years ago, but decided to go
> > more "formal."  Those on the list old enough will remember when they
> > were Larry Fishburn and Sam Jackson, too.
> > 
> > >
> > >> Helena Botham Carter uses her middle name because Helena
> > >> Carter, and actress from the 1930's, is still alive and registered with
> > >> SAG as active.
> > >
> > > What a god-awful stupid rule :)
> > >
> > > Jason Lee, Jason Scott Lee... same thing there then.
> > 
> > Yup, and it's not a stupid rule, as any actor will tell you.
> 
> Then explain how there were two Kevin Smiths (until the one from Xena
> died in that accident in China recently). :)
> 
> I've never liked that actors change their names (Nicholas Cage, for
> example, named himself after a comic book character because he didn't
> want the baggage of the name 'Coppola', since he is the nephew of
> Francis Ford Coppola).
> 
> But myself, I include my initial because my father and I have the same
> first name, different middle name. I wouldn't use it if I didn't have
> to.
> Obviously, Jason Lee and Jason Scott Lee are not related, so I don't see
> why the distinction should be made by the inclusion of a middle name.
> 
> Craig J. Ries
> 



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 17:30:29 -0700
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT Stage names
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lds627@attbi.com wrote:
> 
> More, correct me if I am wrong, aren't they in two
> different countries?

Yeah, the Kevin Smith that died was a Kiwi. 
But still, about everybody responsible for Hercules and Xena were from
the States, so I'm not sure how that all would apply in the end, whether
or not the unions have leverage over those shows.

Craig J. Ries



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*** EOOH ***
From: lds627@attbi.com
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT Stage names
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 01:22:15 +0000
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The actors unions are international, the regestries 
though tend to be national. I.E. there is British Equity 
which is the UK version of the American Actors Equity. 
While they are loosley affiliated, they are pretty much 
autonomous and often work cooperatively to deal with 
such things as stage companies travelling to their 
domain. On the other hand, and Ray can correct me if I 
am wrong, film and television companies are deemed to be 
under the auspices of the country where they are filming 
for the time there. So where an actor was born and grew 
up means little. If a canadian actor comes to work in 
the U.S. they are subject to U.S. unions, if he goes to 
NZ I imagine he is subject to the unions there.

Larry
Who only made it as far as Broadway and that was for one 
night
> lds627@attbi.com wrote:
> > 
> > More, correct me if I am wrong, aren't they in two
> > different countries?
> 
> Yeah, the Kevin Smith that died was a Kiwi. 
> But still, about everybody responsible for Hercules and Xena were from
> the States, so I'm not sure how that all would apply in the end, whether
> or not the unions have leverage over those shows.
> 
> Craig J. Ries
> 



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Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 18:11:50 -0800
Subject: Re: OT Re: Manchild (Re: Film)
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 18:11:50 -0800
Subject: Re: OT Re: Manchild (Re: Film)
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Thursday, March 28, 2002, at 03:38 PM, Craig J. Ries wrote:

> Raymond Feist wrote:
>>
>> On Wednesday, March 27, 2002, at 09:57 PM, Craig J. Ries wrote:
>>
>>> Raymond Feist wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Must be.  Guild rules prohibit actors from having the same name, 
>>>> which
>>>> is why "Billy" Campbell isn't William Campbell, who is still alive 
>>>> and
>>>> working.
>>>
>>> Head usually goes by Anthony Stewart Head though afaik.
>>
>> He actually started out as "Tony Head," years ago, but decided to go
>> more "formal."  Those on the list old enough will remember when they
>> were Larry Fishburn and Sam Jackson, too.
>>
>>>
>>>> Helena Botham Carter uses her middle name because Helena
>>>> Carter, and actress from the 1930's, is still alive and registered 
>>>> with
>>>> SAG as active.
>>>
>>> What a god-awful stupid rule :)
>>>
>>> Jason Lee, Jason Scott Lee... same thing there then.
>>
>> Yup, and it's not a stupid rule, as any actor will tell you.
>
> Then explain how there were two Kevin Smiths (until the one from Xena
> died in that accident in China recently). :)

Because Kevin Smith of Clerks, Mallrats, etc. was a 
writer/producer/director first, and his first two films were non-union 
shoots, so he had previous credits.  For all I know, he's still not a 
guild member.
>
> I've never liked that actors change their names (Nicholas Cage, for
> example, named himself after a comic book character because he didn't
> want the baggage of the name 'Coppola', since he is the nephew of
> Francis Ford Coppola).

A comic book character?  I was under the impression Cage was his 
maternal grandmother's name.
>
> But myself, I include my initial because my father and I have the same
> first name, different middle name. I wouldn't use it if I didn't have
> to.
> Obviously, Jason Lee and Jason Scott Lee are not related, so I don't see
> why the distinction should be made by the inclusion of a middle name.
>
>

Because both Jason Lees would like producers to know which was was 
getting the rave reviews for that odd little picture the producers 
haven't gotten around to see yet.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Subject: Seriously OT: HTML help
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*** EOOH ***
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: "James Barker" <heechee@softhome.net>
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Subject: Seriously OT: HTML help
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 13:31:36 +1100
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OK fellas, first of all, this is definitely OT, so if you're not interested,
please stop reading and don't flame me. :)


Dear All,

Yesterday I decided to finally do something about my homepage, so I slapped
up some graphics and started coding the HTML by hand. However, I'm having
some problems, and I'm damned if I can work out why.

OK, here are my problems, with appropriate pages to illustrate:

1. http://www4.tpgi.com.au/barkerpv/index.htm
    Although I have taken cell padding, cell spacing, and cell borders down
to zero, I am still getting gaps between rows. I've had this problem before,
and I know I solved it using table attributes, but I can't remember how...
However, I think it might be fixable using CSS. If anyone has any ideas,
please let me know.

2. http://www4.tpgi.com.au/barkerpv/index2.htm
    Similarly, as soon as I place text inside the two middle cells of the
rows, as shown, my tables start to break up horizontally as well as
vertically. I'd rather they didn't. It looks to me like this causes the
spacer I put in column three of row one to somehow adjust, but I'm not sure.

3. http://www4.tpgi.com.au/barkerpv/index3.htm
    This one is just as confusing... In the bottom row, I've defined a TD
with colspan of 4, which should give it the entire width of the table to
work with. Inside that TD, I've defined a separate table with three rows,
one for each graphic. The left and right TDs are set to the width of the
graphic inside them, and the middle is (in theory) set to take up whatever
space is left (by usage of the * in the width attribute). This works well
enough in of itself, however, it causes the table to break up horizontally.
I can't work out why.

OK, well, there you go. My terminology probably isn't the best, so if
anything doesn't make sense, my apologies. If anyone knows something useful,
or if I'm just being stupid and missing something, please email me offlist
at heechee@softhome.net and tell me so. =)

Thanks in advance.

Cheers,
James



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 22:21:24 -0700
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT Re: Manchild (Re: Film)
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Raymond Feist wrote:
> 
> A comic book character?  I was under the impression Cage was his
> maternal grandmother's name.

Apparently he was a fan of the Marvel character Luke Cage, a fist
fighting type character.

No surprise that one of Nick Cage's upcoming movie has him playing a
Ghost Rider-esque comic book character. Then again, Cage has been
connected to Superman and Ghost Rider movies as well recently. :)

Craig J. Ries



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*** EOOH ***
From: Thornblood@aol.com
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 23:45:18 EST
Subject: Re: OT Re: Manchild (Re: Film)
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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> I've never liked that actors change their names (Nicholas Cage, for
> example, named himself after a comic book character because he didn't
> want the baggage of the name 'Coppola', since he is the nephew of
> Francis Ford Coppola).

Apparently ol' Nick did not have a problem being linked to his uncle when he 
started out, thought. In his first major movie, "Valley Girl," he was billed 
as Nicholas Coppola.

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Subject: Re: OT Re: Manchild (Re: Film)
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 21:30:16 -0800
Subject: Re: OT Re: Manchild (Re: Film)
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Friday, March 29, 2002, at 08:45 PM, Thornblood@aol.com wrote:

> > I've never liked that actors change their names (Nicholas Cage, for
> > example, named himself after a comic book character because he didn't
> > want the baggage of the name 'Coppola', since he is the nephew of
> > Francis Ford Coppola).
>
> Apparently ol' Nick did not have a problem being linked to his uncle 
> when he started out, thought. In his first major movie, "Valley Girl," 
> he was billed as Nicholas Coppola.
>
>
>

Actually, not.  He was billed as Nicholas Cage, right after Deborah 
Foreman in that film.  Directed by Martha Coolidge.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.

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*** EOOH ***
From: "Nevyn" <alien4@wasp.net.au>
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WOULDNT it be awsome to have an age-of-empire like game based in the
world of kelewan u could choose your house and each has has different
attributes sounds like a good idea
Thanks,
              Nevyn
_______________________________________________________________________

Not every love, but only that which has a noble purpose, is noble and worthy of praise.
 
- Plato (c. 428-348 BC)
_______________________________________________________________________

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*** EOOH ***
From: "Jason Martin" <res0b95g@verizon.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Soon to be another addition to the list
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 02:00:52 -0800
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Well come around November 20th or so there will be a new addition to my
family and the List family.  Yep you guessed it my wife is Pregnant!!
(Wahoo)   Nice thing is we have done this before (2 years ago with Gavin),
but the bad news is, each pregnancy is suppose to be different!
    Gavin turns two this May, and loves books so I think at bed time I will
sit down and read Magician to him.  I get the feeling he is going to like it
since he now raids my bookshelves and pulls out my books and carries them
around.  Hopefully in a few years we will have a Little Nakor running around
screaming "There is no Magic!"  Just thought I would share the great news to
a rather large family I have never meet.

Jason Martin

PS  Seeing how this is a Feist List, would that make Ray the
Father/GrandFather of us all? =)  J/k....
"Too much knowlege never makes for simple decisions."
                           Ghanima- Children of Dune



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*** EOOH ***
From: "Nevyn" <alien4@wasp.net.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Soon to be another addition to the list
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 18:22:49 +0800
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Wonderful news. Pregnancy and birth is truly an amazing thing.

Nevyn. 



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 14:52:20 +0000
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Al Burl <al.burl@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: Re: 
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I think someone on the list made some Kelewan maps for AOE or AOE2.

Not sure though.

Al

At 17:35 30/03/2002 +0800, you wrote:
>WOULDNT it be awsome to have an age-of-empire like game based in the world 
>of kelewan u could choose your house and each has has different attributes 
>sounds like a good idea
>Thanks,
>               Nevyn
>_______________________________________________________________________
>
>Not every love, but only that which has a noble purpose, is noble and 
>worthy of praise.
>
>- Plato (c. 428-348 BC)
>_______________________________________________________________________



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 10:56:43 -0500 (EST)
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Saturday, March 30, 2002, at 02:00 AM, Jason Martin wrote:

> Well come around November 20th or so there will be a new addition to my
> family and the List family.  Yep you guessed it my wife is Pregnant!!
> (Wahoo)   Nice thing is we have done this before (2 years ago with 
> Gavin),
> but the bad news is, each pregnancy is suppose to be different!
>     Gavin turns two this May, and loves books so I think at bed time I 
> will
> sit down and read Magician to him.  I get the feeling he is going to 
> like it
> since he now raids my bookshelves and pulls out my books and carries 
> them
> around.  Hopefully in a few years we will have a Little Nakor running 
> around
> screaming "There is no Magic!"  Just thought I would share the great 
> news to
> a rather large family I have never meet.
>
> Jason Martin
>
> PS  Seeing how this is a Feist List, would that make Ray the
> Father/GrandFather of us all? =)  J/k....
> "Too much knowlege never makes for simple decisions."
>                            Ghanima- Children of Dune
>
>
>
>
Congratulations!

As for every pregnancy being different, the usual rule of thumb is the 
second one is easier, if for no other reason than you've both been 
through it before and a lot of the 1st time anxiety will not be there.  
Often, labor is shorter, too, which should make your wife happy.

My best wishes for a healthy happy baby!

R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Subject: Re: 
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 08:36:54 -0800
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Jason Martin" <res0b95g@verizon.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: 
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 08:36:54 -0800
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu



>
> On Saturday, March 30, 2002, at 02:00 AM, Jason Martin wrote:
>
> > Well come around November 20th or so there will be a new addition to my
> > family and the List family.  Yep you guessed it my wife is Pregnant!!
> > (Wahoo)   Nice thing is we have done this before (2 years ago with
> > Gavin),
> > but the bad news is, each pregnancy is suppose to be different!
> >     Gavin turns two this May, and loves books so I think at bed time I
> > will
> > sit down and read Magician to him.  I get the feeling he is going to
> > like it
> > since he now raids my bookshelves and pulls out my books and carries
> > them
> > around.  Hopefully in a few years we will have a Little Nakor running
> > around
> > screaming "There is no Magic!"  Just thought I would share the great
> > news to
> > a rather large family I have never meet.
> >
> > Jason Martin
> >
> > PS  Seeing how this is a Feist List, would that make Ray the
> > Father/GrandFather of us all? =)  J/k....
> > "Too much knowlege never makes for simple decisions."
> >                            Ghanima- Children of Dune
> >
> >
> >
> >
> Congratulations!
>
> As for every pregnancy being different, the usual rule of thumb is the
> second one is easier, if for no other reason than you've both been
> through it before and a lot of the 1st time anxiety will not be there.
> Often, labor is shorter, too, which should make your wife happy.
>
> My best wishes for a healthy happy baby!
>
> R.E.F.
> ----
>
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
> stupidity.
>
If it suppose to be shorter, then we made be in for a very fast delievery
then.  Her labor only last 6 hours with Gavin.  Her water broke at 3pm, and
then we had Gavin by 9:30PM that night.  If it's suppose to be shorter this
time around I may just miss it if I'm at work and I have to drive to the
Hospital to meet her.  I have an hour commute from home to work one way.

Jason



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 09:51:40 -0800
Subject: Re: 
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
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On Saturday, March 30, 2002, at 08:36 AM, Jason Martin wrote:

>
>
>>
>> On Saturday, March 30, 2002, at 02:00 AM, Jason Martin wrote:
>>
>>> Well come around November 20th or so there will be a new addition to 
>>> my
>>> family and the List family.  Yep you guessed it my wife is Pregnant!!
>>> (Wahoo)   Nice thing is we have done this before (2 years ago with
>>> Gavin),
>>> but the bad news is, each pregnancy is suppose to be different!
>>>     Gavin turns two this May, and loves books so I think at bed time I
>>> will
>>> sit down and read Magician to him.  I get the feeling he is going to
>>> like it
>>> since he now raids my bookshelves and pulls out my books and carries
>>> them
>>> around.  Hopefully in a few years we will have a Little Nakor running
>>> around
>>> screaming "There is no Magic!"  Just thought I would share the great
>>> news to
>>> a rather large family I have never meet.
>>>
>>> Jason Martin
>>>
>>> PS  Seeing how this is a Feist List, would that make Ray the
>>> Father/GrandFather of us all? =)  J/k....
>>> "Too much knowlege never makes for simple decisions."
>>>                            Ghanima- Children of Dune
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> Congratulations!
>>
>> As for every pregnancy being different, the usual rule of thumb is the
>> second one is easier, if for no other reason than you've both been
>> through it before and a lot of the 1st time anxiety will not be there.
>> Often, labor is shorter, too, which should make your wife happy.
>>
>> My best wishes for a healthy happy baby!
>>
>> R.E.F.
>> ----
>>
>> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
>> stupidity.
>>
> If it suppose to be shorter, then we made be in for a very fast 
> delievery
> then.  Her labor only last 6 hours with Gavin.  Her water broke at 3pm, 
> and
> then we had Gavin by 9:30PM that night.  If it's suppose to be shorter 
> this
> time around I may just miss it if I'm at work and I have to drive to the
> Hospital to meet her.  I have an hour commute from home to work one way.
>
> Jason
>
>
>
>

My ex-wife went from 30 hours to 3.    I went to bed at 11 pm and she 
said she thought maybe it was close for the 2nd baby.  At 1:45 she woke 
me up and said, "We're leaving now!"  I scooped up our daughter, dropped 
her at a friend's house on the fly and off we went to the hospital, 
getting there by 2:30.  The nurse checked my wife and said, "When you 
have another contraction, push a bit so I can see where the baby is."  
My wife did and the nurse said "Oh, don't do that again!  I'm going to 
get the doctor."  James was born at 5:00am.  He would have been there 
maybe even a half-hour earlier except the doctor was in another delivery 
and couldn't get to us for 30 minutes.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 10:13:29 -0800
From: Carl Dershem <dershem@cox.net>
Organization: Project Selene
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: 
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Raymond Feist wrote:
> 
> My ex-wife went from 30 hours to 3.    I went to bed at 11 pm and she
> said she thought maybe it was close for the 2nd baby.  At 1:45 she woke
> me up and said, "We're leaving now!"  I scooped up our daughter, dropped
> her at a friend's house on the fly and off we went to the hospital,
> getting there by 2:30.  The nurse checked my wife and said, "When you
> have another contraction, push a bit so I can see where the baby is."
> My wife did and the nurse said "Oh, don't do that again!  I'm going to
> get the doctor."  James was born at 5:00am.  He would have been there
> maybe even a half-hour earlier except the doctor was in another delivery
> and couldn't get to us for 30 minutes.

Second babies can be challenging.  My brother was born in the elevator
going up to the room (this was in the years before they started putting
maternity wards on the ground floor).  I, as second, was born in the
lobby.

We gave the nurses there a bit of a workout!

cd
-- 
Death to all Absolutists!



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On Sat, 30 March 2002, "Jason Martin" wrote


> >
> If it suppose to be shorter, then we made be in for a very fast delievery
> then.  Her labor only last 6 hours with Gavin.  Her water broke at 3pm, and
> then we had Gavin by 9:30PM that night.  If it's suppose to be shorter this
> time around I may just miss it if I'm at work and I have to drive to the
> Hospital to meet her.  I have an hour commute from home to work one way.
> 
> Jason

 I went into labor with my daughter at 3am, and she was
born at 6:20am, so yeah...sometimes the second(third in
my case) births get much faster!

 Congrats to you and your Lady.


 Anita


 'Every happy ending needs to have a start.'

___________________________________________________________________
Join the Space Program: Get FREE E-mail at http://www.space.com.



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Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 11:31:57 +1000
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Carl Dershem" <dershem@cox.net>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Sunday, March 31, 2002 4:13 AM
Subject: Re:


> Raymond Feist wrote:
> >
> > My ex-wife went from 30 hours to 3.    I went to bed at 11 pm and she
> > said she thought maybe it was close for the 2nd baby.  At 1:45 she woke
> > me up and said, "We're leaving now!"  I scooped up our daughter, dropped
> > her at a friend's house on the fly and off we went to the hospital,
> > getting there by 2:30.  The nurse checked my wife and said, "When you
> > have another contraction, push a bit so I can see where the baby is."
> > My wife did and the nurse said "Oh, don't do that again!  I'm going to
> > get the doctor."  James was born at 5:00am.  He would have been there
> > maybe even a half-hour earlier except the doctor was in another delivery
> > and couldn't get to us for 30 minutes.
>
> Second babies can be challenging.  My brother was born in the elevator
> going up to the room (this was in the years before they started putting
> maternity wards on the ground floor).  I, as second, was born in the
> lobby.

I almost had you beaten there... I was the first baby, and I was born about
five weeks premature. My father scooped my mother into the car as soon as
her contractions started, but they managed to get stuck in traffic (in
Adelaide, of all place *g*) and I came within five minutes of being born in
the passenger seat of the car.

Cheers,
James



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From: JEEPMONSTER69@aol.com
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 23:48:47 EST
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In a message dated 3/30/2002 8:48:19 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
heechee@softhome.net writes:


> I almost had you beaten there... I was the first baby, and I was born about
> five weeks premature. My father scooped my mother into the car as soon as
> her contractions started, but they managed to get stuck in traffic (in
> Adelaide, of all place *g*) and I came within five minutes of being born in
> the passenger seat of the car.
> 
> Cheers,
> James
> 

Hell, try this one on- about an hour before I was born, my parents went to 
get their car washed(my dad thinks it's bad luck to have a dirty car with a 
new kid- I dunno). Anyway, the car wash got stuck, and my mom got to the 
hospital about 3 minutes before I was born.

                                                             Peace,
                                                                   Matt
"Lets Roll."- Todd Beamer
USA, Muthafacko!

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The spoilers made me think of making a mirc channel we could join and 
discuss things.The mailinglist is good,but some things are better to discuss 
online.So how about starting a channel we could chat on?Last time I 
suggested this there was a problem.That was that it was too few there so no 
one wanted to be there.How about it?To increase the amount of people there 
we could tell our friends/family or other people we meet to join that 
channel.I know that there are a lot of Raymond E. Feist fans out there.

So any suggestions for on which server the channel should be on and the name 
of the channel?Plz help me out here guys.I can't do it without u guys.

                   Phrill

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.



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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Al Burl <al.burl@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: Re: mIRC
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 00:11:35 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Al Burl <al.burl@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: Re: mIRC
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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I'm pretty sure there's already a #krondor or #midkemia channel out there. 
I remember going in a room with one of those names.

Al

At 22:20 31/03/2002 +0200, you wrote:
>The spoilers made me think of making a mirc channel we could join and 
>discuss things.The mailinglist is good,but some things are better to 
>discuss online.So how about starting a channel we could chat on?Last time 
>I suggested this there was a problem.That was that it was too few there so 
>no one wanted to be there.How about it?To increase the amount of people 
>there we could tell our friends/family or other people we meet to join 
>that channel.I know that there are a lot of Raymond E. Feist fans out there.
>
>So any suggestions for on which server the channel should be on and the 
>name of the channel?Plz help me out here guys.I can't do it without u guys.
>
>                   Phrill
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.



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Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 20:42:17 -0500
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Sounds cool!Get more from the Web.  FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com

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From: "MChaloner" <markchaloner@btinternet.com>
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Subject: Bittersea.com
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 15:13:12 +0100
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Is there any news on when bittersea.com will be up & running?

Mark



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 08:18:04 -0800
Subject: Re: Bittersea.com
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On Monday, April 1, 2002, at 06:13 AM, MChaloner wrote:

> Is there any news on when bittersea.com will be up & running?
>
> Mark
>
>
>
>

Hey, Mark.

No, not really.  John does such an amazing job over at Crydee.com I'm 
finding little reason to do anything myself.  I think maybe I'll turn 
John's site into the "official" one. <g>

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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From: "Caleb Fox" <mikefasssy@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: mIRC
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From: "Caleb Fox" <mikefasssy@hotmail.com>
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Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 09:21:59 -0800
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Yea, i used to be a mirc addict, and i know there are feist channels,
there are many. ill try and scrounge up the names of them because i
used to hang out in them a lot. but having a listspecific channel
would be a good idea, because in the other channels, its rarely book
related conversation.

chheers, Caleb


boo yah!




>From: Al Burl <AL.BURL@TISCALI.CO.UK>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu 
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L) 
>Subject: Re: mIRC 
>Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 00:11:35 +0100 
> 
>I'm pretty sure there's already a #krondor or #midkemia channel out 
>there. 
>I remember going in a room with one of those names. 
> 
>Al 
> 
>At 22:20 31/03/2002 +0200, you wrote: 
>>The spoilers made me think of making a mirc channel we could join 
>>and 
>>discuss things.The mailinglist is good,but some things are better 
>>to 
>>discuss online.So how about starting a channel we could chat 
>>on?Last time 
>>I suggested this there was a problem.That was that it was too few 
>>there so 
>>no one wanted to be there.How about it?To increase the amount of 
>>people 
>>there we could tell our friends/family or other people we meet to 
>>join 
>>that channel.I know that there are a lot of Raymond E. Feist fans 
>>out there. 
>> 
>>So any suggestions for on which server the channel should be on and 
>>the 
>>name of the channel?Plz help me out here guys.I can't do it without 
>>u guys. 
>> 
>> Phrill 

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Everyone for a temporary list channel visit #krondor on efnet

_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx

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References: <000001c1d987$6d313bc0$b78d01d5@amecmchaloner>
Subject: Re: Bittersea.com
Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 00:57:52 -0600
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Darren McClung" <dmcclung1@kc.rr.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Bittersea.com
Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 00:57:52 -0600
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Ray will surely correct me if I'm wrong, but I think he just uses that
domain as a mail redirector.

Darren

----- Original Message -----
From: "MChaloner" <markchaloner@btinternet.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Monday, April 01, 2002 08:13
Subject: Bittersea.com


> Is there any news on when bittersea.com will be up & running?
>
> Mark
>



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 23:32:27 -0800
Subject: Re: Bittersea.com
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Monday, April 1, 2002, at 10:57 PM, Darren McClung wrote:

> Ray will surely correct me if I'm wrong, but I think he just uses that
> domain as a mail redirector.
>

Currently.

Originally it was to be the web site of my corporation, the Bitter Sea 
Company, Inc.  Unfortunately, my divorce has put BSC out of business, 
except as an "alter-ego" in tax terms.

So, right now there's no pressing reason to use it, other than as a mail 
address.  The nice thing about that, though, is no matter who my ISP is, 
my addy will always be the same.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
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yes but on what server?

_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com



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SERVER:  irc.rt.ru
CHANNEL: #krondor

Everyone come on so we can get a proper channel happening


_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com



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TEST



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Subject: Question for Ray & List
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From: coweater@alphalink.com.au
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Question for Ray & List
Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 09:11:51 +1000
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Hi Everyone,

Ray (or anyone else who can answer this), When writing do you work from 
home ? and if so how do you handle the isolation of not having co-workers 
around ? 

The reason I ask is because I just recently (a month ago) got head hunted 
by another company and have begun working from home 5 days a week. The new 
company I joined are located in a different state (Sydney, Australia), and 
not wanting to relocate since I just bought a new house (in Melbourne) I 
told them I would only join if I could work from home, and they agreed. 
Even the client I currently spend the majority of my work time on are 
located interstate, and at my previous job I worked with alot of very 
intelligent people so I find myself missing the stimulating 
conversations/debates that would happen on a daily basis.

Regards,

Brad Krahe

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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 15:26:31 -0800
Subject: Re: Question for Ray & List
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Wednesday, April 3, 2002, at 03:11 PM, coweater@alphalink.com.au 
wrote:

>
> Hi Everyone,
>
> Ray (or anyone else who can answer this), When writing do you work from 
> home ? and if so how do you handle the isolation of not having 
> co-workers around ?
>
> The reason I ask is because I just recently (a month ago) got head 
> hunted by another company and have begun working from home 5 days a 
> week. The new company I joined are located in a different state 
> (Sydney, Australia), and not wanting to relocate since I just bought a 
> new house (in Melbourne) I told them I would only join if I could work 
> from home, and they agreed. Even the client I currently spend the 
> majority of my work time on are located interstate, and at my previous 
> job I worked with alot of very intelligent people so I find myself 
> missing the stimulating conversations/debates that would happen on a 
> daily basis.
>
> Regards,
>
> Brad Krahe
>

Writing fiction is unlike anything else.  You just have to work "alone" 
in your head, no matter where you are or how many distractions you might 
have around.  I can work on a plane (I have) or in a car (I have) and 
with my kids screaming upstairs (I have), but I'd rather be working in a 
quite environment with no distractions.

If I want something social, I go out after I'm done writing.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.

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Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 21:27:23 EST
Subject: A globe of Midkemia?
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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*** EOOH ***
From: Gkhd11a@aol.com
Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 21:27:23 EST
Subject: A globe of Midkemia?
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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Didn't Mr. Feist say that he had one?  It would be pretty cool if somebody 
could make a big 3D model of Midkemia...

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Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 21:31:07 EST
Subject: OT: E-mail Lists
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*** EOOH ***
From: RBlackley@aol.com
Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 21:31:07 EST
Subject: OT: E-mail Lists
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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Hey I realize that this is totally OT and if you feel the need reply off list 
but does anyone know a good website for setting up a free e-mail list like 
this one, is this free?  If anyone could assist it is for a volunteer group 
that I work with.

thanks  Richard

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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: A globe of Midkemia?
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2002 18:46:10 -0800
From: Carl Dershem <dershem@cox.net>
Organization: Project Selene
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: A globe of Midkemia?
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Gkhd11a@aol.com wrote:
> 
> Didn't Mr. Feist say that he had one?  It would be pretty cool if
> somebody could make a big 3D model of Midkemia...

I'm in the midst of making one - just need a little bit more data.  Ray
saw my Pern globe (mostly because I brought it to a signing) and
Midkemia is next on my list.  I'll post a link when/if it's done.

cd
-- 
Death to all Absolutists!



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From: "Andy Holcombe" <andy_wan_kenobi@hotmail.com>
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>From: RBlackley@aol.com
>
>but does anyone know a good website for setting up a free e-mail list like
>this one, is this free?

Yahoo has some.  You've got to be careful about your privacy settings, 
though.  They also have speed issues sometimes. http://groups.yahoo.com/


Andy Holcombe
Andy_wan_Kenobi@hotmail.com

"To err is human, but to really foul things up requires a computer."
     -Farmers' Almanac 1978

"I don't give a damn for a man who can only spell a word one way."
     -Mark Twain

"History will be kind to me, for I intend to write it."
     -Winston Churchill

Andy Holcombe
Andy_wan_Kenobi@hotmail.com

"To err is human, but to really foul things up requires a computer."
     -Farmers' Almanac 1978

"I don't give a damn for a man who can only spell a word one way."
     -Mark Twain

"History will be kind to me, for I intend to write it."
     -Winston Churchill

_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com



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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: John <john@crydee.com>
Subject: Re: Bittersea.com
References: <000001c1d987$6d313bc0$b78d01d5@amecmchaloner>
 <0B43D7ED-458C-11D6-AED2-003065A8A644@bittersea.com>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 06:46:58 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: John <john@crydee.com>
Subject: Re: Bittersea.com
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Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com> writes
>
>On Monday, April 1, 2002, at 06:13 AM, MChaloner wrote:
>
>> Is there any news on when bittersea.com will be up & running?
>>
>> Mark
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>Hey, Mark.
>
>No, not really.  John does such an amazing job over at Crydee.com I'm 
>finding little reason to do anything myself.  I think maybe I'll turn 
>John's site into the "official" one. <g>
>
>Best, R.E.F.

That is such a nice compliment Ray, though the site is a bit out of date 
at the moment.
I have been following my favourite authors other interests, Ladies that 
is <BG>
My divorce should be finalised in the next 8 weeks, and I have a 
wonderful lady I met, she has 3 lovely children, and waiting for her own 
divorce to be finalised. To say we are getting on well is an 
understatement... :)

-- 
John

john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.

Raymond E Feist Ring
http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 22:04:07 -0800
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Alan Kellogg <mythusmage@cts.com>
Subject: Damage Control
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Word of the "scoop" in Locus has reached the Robert J. Sawyer list. 
Could someone send me a copy of Harlan's letter I could send? Be much 
appreciated.

Alan



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Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 06:44:04 -0500
Subject: Re: Bittersea.com
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From: Bob Montgomery <dante@kingcon.com>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 06:44:04 -0500
Subject: Re: Bittersea.com
From: Bob Montgomery <dante@kingcon.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Congrats on your happiness, John.

All the best!


On Thursday, April 4, 2002, at 12:46  AM, John wrote:

> That is such a nice compliment Ray, though the site is a bit out of 
> date at the moment.
> I have been following my favourite authors other interests, Ladies that 
> is <BG>
> My divorce should be finalised in the next 8 weeks, and I have a 
> wonderful lady I met, she has 3 lovely children, and waiting for her 
> own divorce to be finalised. To say we are getting on well is an 
> understatement... :)
>
> -- John



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From: Kervyn Cloete <murf_seed@yahoo.com>
Subject: Fwd:Fwd:FW: Reply to me
To: Eugene Abrahams <brandy@starmail.co.za>,
        Jasmine Adam <noxiousvenom@webmail.co.za>,
        Natalie February <babydoll69@webmail.co.za>,
        david francis <david_11za@yahoo.com>,
        CAMPBELL FRANCOIS <foos_2the_end@yahoo.com>,
        Michelle Idas <midas@cmc.gov.za>,
        jill marshall <mrsjil001@mail.uct.ac.za>,
        Melissa <s2102871@tuks.co.za>, aiden steenkamp <ad2graph@yahoo.com>,
        FEISTFANS <feistfans-l@cornell.edu>, byron.meyer@eskom.co.za
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 03:49:26 -0800 (PST)
From: Kervyn Cloete <murf_seed@yahoo.com>
Subject: Fwd:Fwd:FW: Reply to me
To: Eugene Abrahams <brandy@starmail.co.za>,
        Jasmine Adam <noxiousvenom@webmail.co.za>,
        Natalie February <babydoll69@webmail.co.za>,
        david francis <david_11za@yahoo.com>,
        CAMPBELL FRANCOIS <foos_2the_end@yahoo.com>,
        Michelle Idas <midas@cmc.gov.za>,
        jill marshall <mrsjil001@mail.uct.ac.za>,
        Melissa <s2102871@tuks.co.za>, aiden steenkamp <ad2graph@yahoo.com>,
        FEISTFANS <feistfans-l@cornell.edu>, byron.meyer@eskom.co.za
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

--0-1720208909-1017920966=:63538
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Disposition: inline

Subject:	Fwd: Reply to me.
>
> Here's what you are supposed to do... Forward this e-mail, erasing all
> the
> addresses of earlier senders. Change all the answers so they apply to
> you.
> Then, send this to a whole bunch of people you know INCLUDING the
> person
> who
> sent it to you. The theory is that you will get a pile of get-to-know
> e-mails! You'll learn a lot of little known (and sometimes scary)
> facts
> about your friends! Remember to send this back to the person who sent
> it
> to you!!!!!!
> READY?
>
> 1. What is your name?
     kervyn	
> 2. What colour knickers or pant's are you wearing right now?
     white
> 3. What are you listening to right now
     puddle of mud
>
> 4. What are the last four digits of your phone number, mobile or home?
> 3774
> 5. What was the last thing you ate?
   bread
> 6. If you were a crayon, what colour would you be?
   plaid
> 7. Where do you plan to go on your honeymoon?
> switzerland
>
> 8. How is the weather right now?
> Drizzly and cool
>
> 9. Last person you talked to on the phone?
   Natalie
>
> 10. What's the first thing you notice about the opposite sex?
   breast
>
> 11. Do you like the person that sent you this?
> Of course
> 12. How are you today?
>  pretty good
>
> 13. Your favourite drink?
   schweppes
>
> 14. Your favourite alcoholic drink?
> sambuca (any colour)
>
> 15. How do you eat an Aero?
> Ek vriet die ding
>
> 16. Favourite sport, to watch.
> Rugby, american football,grand-pix
>
> 17. What's the next CD you're going to get?
>  Enya - Paint the sky with stars
>
> 18. Hair colour?
> dark brown
> 19. Eye Colour ?
> brown
>
> 20. Do you wear contacts?
> No
>
> 21. Siblings and their ages?
> 1 brother, 26
>
> 22. Favourite month?
> may
>
> 23. Favourite food?
> Pizza
>
> 24. Last movie you watched
>   A Beautiful Mind
>
> 25. Favourite day of the year?
   don't have one
>
> 26. Are you shy to ask someone out?
> depends on how nice i think they are
>
> 27. Do you like scary or happy movies better?
   Scary
>
> 28. Summer or Winter?
  i love winter
>
> 29. Hugs or Kisses?
   Give me both!!
>
> 30. Relationship or one night stands?
>  depends on the amount of alcohol i've consumed   
>
> 31. Chocolate or Vanilla?
> Chocolate
>
> 32. Do you want your friends to write back?
> Yes
>
> 33. Who is least likely to respond?
    Dunno
>
> 34. Who is most likely to respond
  still dunno

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax
http://taxes.yahoo.com/
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Date: Thu, 04 Apr 2002 12:40:07 +0200
From: "Byron Meyer" <Byron.Meyer@eskom.co.za>
To: <MHMapholi@caltex.com>, <NTFerreira@caltex.com>,
   <Ian_Baugaard@capespan.co.za>, <amoses@cmatrix.co.za>,
   <Norma@foschini.co.za>, <fancyfacecandy@hotmail.com>,
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   <imsieblue@webmail.co.za>, <murda187@webmail.co.za>,
   <russian-bear@webmail.co.za>, <sft@webmail.co.za>, <triney@webmail.co.za>,
   <zaheerham@webmail.co.za>, <craigh@wpbts.org.za>, <angellehane@yahoo.com>,
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   <lallieboy@yahoo.com>, <lorenza_a2001@yahoo.com>, <Murf_Seed@yahoo.com>,
   <new_ninja@yahoo.com>, <skpienaar@yahoo.com>, <Manfred.Weigt@zoomcpt.co.za>
Subject: Fwd:Fwd:FW: Reply to me
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 Subject:	Fwd: Reply to me.
>
> Here's what you are supposed to do... Forward this e-mail, erasing all
> the
> addresses of earlier senders. Change all the answers so they apply to
> you.
> Then, send this to a whole bunch of people you know INCLUDING the
> person
> who
> sent it to you. The theory is that you will get a pile of get-to-know
> e-mails! You'll learn a lot of little known (and sometimes scary)
> facts
> about your friends! Remember to send this back to the person who sent
> it
> to you!!!!!!
> READY?
>
> 1. What is your name?
     Byron
> 2. What colour knickers or pant's are you wearing right now?
     Black
> 3. What are you listening to right now
     Nothing
>
> 4. What are the last four digits of your phone number, mobile or home?
> 2501
> 5. What was the last thing you ate?
   doughnut
> 6. If you were a crayon, what colour would you be?
   Blue
> 7. Where do you plan to go on your honeymoon?
> Venice
>
> 8. How is the weather right now?
> Drizzly and cool
>
> 9. Last person you talked to on the phone?
   Natalie
>
> 10. What's the first thing you notice about the opposite sex?
   face
>
> 11. Do you like the person that sent you this?
> Of course
> 12. How are you today?
>  Not too bad
>
> 13. Your favourite drink?
   Pineapple Fanta
>
> 14. Your favourite alcoholic drink?
> Too many
>
> 15. How do you eat an Aero?
> Savouring every morsel
>
> 16. Favourite sport, to watch.
> Rugby, soccer, cricket-most!! I love sport!
>
> 17. What's the next CD you're going to get?
>  Prodigy-Phat of the Land
>
> 18. Hair colour?
> Black
> 19. Eye Colour ?
> Hazel-brown
>
> 20. Do you wear contacts?
> No
>
> 21. Siblings and their ages?
> 2 sisters, 35 & 23, and a brother, 29
>
> 22. Favourite month?
> Not sure-prob. Nov.
>
> 23. Favourite food?
> Pizza/Pasta/Spaghetti/
>
> 24. Last movie you watched
>   Bridgitte Jones' Diary
>
> 25. Favourite day of the year?
   My Birthday
>
> 26. Are you shy to ask someone out?
> It depends
>
> 27. Do you like scary or happy movies better?
   Scary
>
> 28. Summer or Winter?
  Definitely Summer, Goat!!
>
> 29. Hugs or Kisses?
   Give me both!!
>
> 30. Relationship or one night stands?
>  First come, first served!! Haha!   
>
> 31. Chocolate or Vanilla?
> Chocolate
>
> 32. Do you want your friends to write back?
> Yes
>
> 33. Who is least likely to respond?
    Dunno
>
> 34. Who is most likely to respond
  Too hard to call-probably Craig


Regards
Byron
Eskom, Koeberg
byron.meyer@eskom.co.za
--0-1720208909-1017920966=:63538--



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X-PH: V4.1@mailhub2 (Cornell Modified) 
From: Kervyn Cloete <murf_seed@yahoo.com>
Subject: Fwd:Fwd:FW: Reply to me
To: Eugene Abrahams <brandy@starmail.co.za>,
        Jasmine Adam <noxiousvenom@webmail.co.za>,
        Natalie February <babydoll69@webmail.co.za>,
        david francis <david_11za@yahoo.com>,
        CAMPBELL FRANCOIS <foos_2the_end@yahoo.com>,
        Michelle Idas <midas@cmc.gov.za>,
        jill marshall <mrsjil001@mail.uct.ac.za>,
        Melissa <s2102871@tuks.co.za>, aiden steenkamp <ad2graph@yahoo.com>,
        FEISTFANS <feistfans-l@cornell.edu>, byron.meyer@eskom.co.za
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 03:48:49 -0800 (PST)
From: Kervyn Cloete <murf_seed@yahoo.com>
Subject: Fwd:Fwd:FW: Reply to me
To: Eugene Abrahams <brandy@starmail.co.za>,
        Jasmine Adam <noxiousvenom@webmail.co.za>,
        Natalie February <babydoll69@webmail.co.za>,
        david francis <david_11za@yahoo.com>,
        CAMPBELL FRANCOIS <foos_2the_end@yahoo.com>,
        Michelle Idas <midas@cmc.gov.za>,
        jill marshall <mrsjil001@mail.uct.ac.za>,
        Melissa <s2102871@tuks.co.za>, aiden steenkamp <ad2graph@yahoo.com>,
        FEISTFANS <feistfans-l@cornell.edu>, byron.meyer@eskom.co.za
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

--0-1180068395-1017920929=:61389
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Disposition: inline

Subject:	Fwd: Reply to me.
>
> Here's what you are supposed to do... Forward this e-mail, erasing all
> the
> addresses of earlier senders. Change all the answers so they apply to
> you.
> Then, send this to a whole bunch of people you know INCLUDING the
> person
> who
> sent it to you. The theory is that you will get a pile of get-to-know
> e-mails! You'll learn a lot of little known (and sometimes scary)
> facts
> about your friends! Remember to send this back to the person who sent
> it
> to you!!!!!!
> READY?
>
> 1. What is your name?
     Byron
> 2. What colour knickers or pant's are you wearing right now?
     Black
> 3. What are you listening to right now
     Nothing
>
> 4. What are the last four digits of your phone number, mobile or home?
> 2501
> 5. What was the last thing you ate?
   doughnut
> 6. If you were a crayon, what colour would you be?
   Blue
> 7. Where do you plan to go on your honeymoon?
> Venice
>
> 8. How is the weather right now?
> Drizzly and cool
>
> 9. Last person you talked to on the phone?
   Natalie
>
> 10. What's the first thing you notice about the opposite sex?
   face
>
> 11. Do you like the person that sent you this?
> Of course
> 12. How are you today?
>  Not too bad
>
> 13. Your favourite drink?
   Pineapple Fanta
>
> 14. Your favourite alcoholic drink?
> Too many
>
> 15. How do you eat an Aero?
> Savouring every morsel
>
> 16. Favourite sport, to watch.
> Rugby, soccer, cricket-most!! I love sport!
>
> 17. What's the next CD you're going to get?
>  Prodigy-Phat of the Land
>
> 18. Hair colour?
> Black
> 19. Eye Colour ?
> Hazel-brown
>
> 20. Do you wear contacts?
> No
>
> 21. Siblings and their ages?
> 2 sisters, 35 & 23, and a brother, 29
>
> 22. Favourite month?
> Not sure-prob. Nov.
>
> 23. Favourite food?
> Pizza/Pasta/Spaghetti/
>
> 24. Last movie you watched
>   Bridgitte Jones' Diary
>
> 25. Favourite day of the year?
   My Birthday
>
> 26. Are you shy to ask someone out?
> It depends
>
> 27. Do you like scary or happy movies better?
   Scary
>
> 28. Summer or Winter?
  Definitely Summer, Goat!!
>
> 29. Hugs or Kisses?
   Give me both!!
>
> 30. Relationship or one night stands?
>  First come, first served!! Haha!   
>
> 31. Chocolate or Vanilla?
> Chocolate
>
> 32. Do you want your friends to write back?
> Yes
>
> 33. Who is least likely to respond?
    Dunno
>
> 34. Who is most likely to respond
  Too hard to call-probably Craig



__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax
http://taxes.yahoo.com/
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Date: Thu, 04 Apr 2002 12:40:07 +0200
From: "Byron Meyer" <Byron.Meyer@eskom.co.za>
To: <MHMapholi@caltex.com>, <NTFerreira@caltex.com>,
   <Ian_Baugaard@capespan.co.za>, <amoses@cmatrix.co.za>,
   <Norma@foschini.co.za>, <fancyfacecandy@hotmail.com>,
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   <Tgrammer@pawc.wcape.gov.za>, <Nazreen.Combrinck@sanlam.co.za>,
   <AghustaG@ssteel.co.za>, <HolmesCJ@telkom.co.za>, <audwinu@webmail.co.za>,
   <babydoll69@webmail.co.za>, <heini-h@webmail.co.za>,
   <imsieblue@webmail.co.za>, <murda187@webmail.co.za>,
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   <lallieboy@yahoo.com>, <lorenza_a2001@yahoo.com>, <Murf_Seed@yahoo.com>,
   <new_ninja@yahoo.com>, <skpienaar@yahoo.com>, <Manfred.Weigt@zoomcpt.co.za>
Subject: Fwd:Fwd:FW: Reply to me
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 Subject:	Fwd: Reply to me.
>
> Here's what you are supposed to do... Forward this e-mail, erasing all
> the
> addresses of earlier senders. Change all the answers so they apply to
> you.
> Then, send this to a whole bunch of people you know INCLUDING the
> person
> who
> sent it to you. The theory is that you will get a pile of get-to-know
> e-mails! You'll learn a lot of little known (and sometimes scary)
> facts
> about your friends! Remember to send this back to the person who sent
> it
> to you!!!!!!
> READY?
>
> 1. What is your name?
     Byron
> 2. What colour knickers or pant's are you wearing right now?
     Black
> 3. What are you listening to right now
     Nothing
>
> 4. What are the last four digits of your phone number, mobile or home?
> 2501
> 5. What was the last thing you ate?
   doughnut
> 6. If you were a crayon, what colour would you be?
   Blue
> 7. Where do you plan to go on your honeymoon?
> Venice
>
> 8. How is the weather right now?
> Drizzly and cool
>
> 9. Last person you talked to on the phone?
   Natalie
>
> 10. What's the first thing you notice about the opposite sex?
   face
>
> 11. Do you like the person that sent you this?
> Of course
> 12. How are you today?
>  Not too bad
>
> 13. Your favourite drink?
   Pineapple Fanta
>
> 14. Your favourite alcoholic drink?
> Too many
>
> 15. How do you eat an Aero?
> Savouring every morsel
>
> 16. Favourite sport, to watch.
> Rugby, soccer, cricket-most!! I love sport!
>
> 17. What's the next CD you're going to get?
>  Prodigy-Phat of the Land
>
> 18. Hair colour?
> Black
> 19. Eye Colour ?
> Hazel-brown
>
> 20. Do you wear contacts?
> No
>
> 21. Siblings and their ages?
> 2 sisters, 35 & 23, and a brother, 29
>
> 22. Favourite month?
> Not sure-prob. Nov.
>
> 23. Favourite food?
> Pizza/Pasta/Spaghetti/
>
> 24. Last movie you watched
>   Bridgitte Jones' Diary
>
> 25. Favourite day of the year?
   My Birthday
>
> 26. Are you shy to ask someone out?
> It depends
>
> 27. Do you like scary or happy movies better?
   Scary
>
> 28. Summer or Winter?
  Definitely Summer, Goat!!
>
> 29. Hugs or Kisses?
   Give me both!!
>
> 30. Relationship or one night stands?
>  First come, first served!! Haha!   
>
> 31. Chocolate or Vanilla?
> Chocolate
>
> 32. Do you want your friends to write back?
> Yes
>
> 33. Who is least likely to respond?
    Dunno
>
> 34. Who is most likely to respond
  Too hard to call-probably Craig


Regards
Byron
Eskom, Koeberg
byron.meyer@eskom.co.za
--0-1180068395-1017920929=:61389--



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From: "Some DuDe" <somedude1_2000@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: A globe of Midkemia?
Date: Thu, 04 Apr 2002 22:16:01 +1000
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From: "Some DuDe" <somedude1_2000@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re: A globe of Midkemia?
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sounds good if i can help in any way as in help you gather data just ask me 
i would love to see it finished as soon as possible
wat is your pern model?
could you past a link to it?

>From: Carl Dershem <dershem@cox.net>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
>Subject: Re: A globe of Midkemia?
>Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2002 18:46:10 -0800
>
>Gkhd11a@aol.com wrote:
> >
> > Didn't Mr. Feist say that he had one?  It would be pretty cool if
> > somebody could make a big 3D model of Midkemia...
>
>I'm in the midst of making one - just need a little bit more data.  Ray
>saw my Pern globe (mostly because I brought it to a signing) and
>Midkemia is next on my list.  I'll post a link when/if it's done.
>
>cd
>--
>Death to all Absolutists!
>




_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com



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From: "Paddyjack [ ]" <erykel@lycos.com>
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On Thu, 4 Apr 2002 09:11:51   
 coweater wrote:
>and at my previous job I worked with alot of very 
>intelligent people so I find myself missing the stimulating 
>conversations/debates that would happen on a daily basis.
>


But don't forget that Ray can have stimulating discussions with
intelligent people here on the list... <cough>

:-)

Paddyjack


See Dave Matthews Band live or win a signed guitar
http://r.lycos.com/r/bmgfly_mail_dmb/http://win.ipromotions.com/lycos_020201/splash.asp 



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Subject: Nakor
Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 23:32:15 +0800
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From: "Nevyn" <alien4@wasp.net.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Nakor
Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 23:32:15 +0800
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Nakor has to be my most favourite character. He reminds me of me. He is
wise, yet hides it, he is almost like an observer of the journeys, yet still
remaining a part of them
I would love to read a biography of him from his happenings of his earlier
life/s It would be like a dream come true is there ever a chance of this
happening or.. ?

Thanks,
            Nevyn
________________________________________________________________________

Not every love, but only those which have a noble purpose, are noble and
worthy of praise.

- Plato
________________________________________________________________________



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Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 07:37:30 -0800
Subject: Re: Question for Ray & List
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Thursday, April 4, 2002, at 06:52 AM, Paddyjack [ ] wrote:

>
> On Thu, 4 Apr 2002 09:11:51
>  coweater wrote:
>  and at my previous job I worked with alot of very
>> intelligent people so I find myself missing the stimulating
>> conversations/debates that would happen on a daily basis.
>>
>
>
> But don't forget that Ray can have stimulating discussions with 
> intelligent people here on the list... <cough>
>
> :-)
>
>

Sure can, as soon as someone points them out to me. <g,r,d, & h>

Best, R.E.F.
---

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 07:36:11 -0800
Subject: Re: Damage Control
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Wednesday, April 3, 2002, at 10:04 PM, Alan Kellogg wrote:

> Word of the "scoop" in Locus has reached the Robert J. Sawyer list. 
> Could someone send me a copy of Harlan's letter I could send? Be much 
> appreciated.
>
> Alan
>
>
>
>

Alan, what are you talking about?

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 04 Apr 2002 10:47:06 -0500
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Larry Siegel <larry@psihawk.com>
Subject: Re: Question for Ray & List
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>
>Sure can, as soon as someone points them out to me. <g,r,d, & h>
>
>Best, R.E.F.


Just knowing the nature of the list.....Before anyone posts asking....

I am assuming he meant <grins/runs/ducks & hides>

:)

Larry

My Homepage
http://www.psihawk.com

Raymond E. Feist FAQ
http://www.psihawk.com/feist



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From: "Dave Curran" <dave@davecurran.co.uk>
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Subject: RE: Question for Ray & List
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Dave Curran" <dave@davecurran.co.uk>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Question for Ray & List
Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 17:04:23 +0100
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Brad,

I have been based at home for the last couple of years, (although most
 weeks I'll have a night or two at various locations around the country).
When you get the balance right, the flexibility of working from home
can be great.
[I have found my self at both ends of the spectrum... working through
the night some weeks and other weeks spending too many days on the
golf course!]

I certainly did miss the office environment for the same reasons that
you have mentioned.
To keep me from getting "stale", I ensure that I keep in regular contact
by phone & email with a circle of key people.
I use them to bounce ideas around and just to keep fresh ideas coming
in. I also have regular conference calls with my colleagues.

I'm sure that things will work out just fine,

Good luck.

...Dave...

Success is the journey, not the destination.
Remember to enjoy today!





>
> Ray (or anyone else who can answer this), When writing do you work from
>home ? and if so how do you handle the isolation of not having co-workers
>around ?
>
>The reason I ask is because I just recently (a month ago) got head hunted by
>another company and have begun working from home 5 days a week. The new
>company I joined are located in a different state (Sydney, Australia), and
>not wanting to relocate since I just bought a new house (in Melbourne) I
>told them I would only join if I could work from home, and they agreed. Even
>the client I currently spend the majority of my work time on are located
>interstate, and at my previous job I worked with alot of very intelligent
>people so I find myself missing the stimulating conversations/debates that
>would happen on a daily basis.
>
>Regards,
>
>Brad Krahe

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Saying that one is wise is generally unwise;-) It might be true, could 
be stupidity or arrogance at work.

Of course such could be true about any post like mine:-(

Marc aka Caran...

Nevyn wrote:

>Nakor has to be my most favourite character. He reminds me of me. He is
>wise, yet hides it, he is almost like an observer of the journeys, yet still
>remaining a part of them
>I would love to read a biography of him from his happenings of his earlier
>life/s It would be like a dream come true is there ever a chance of this
>happening or.. ?
>
>Thanks,
>            Nevyn
>________________________________________________________________________
>
>Not every love, but only those which have a noble purpose, are noble and
>worthy of praise.
>
>- Plato
>________________________________________________________________________
>
>




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Subject: Re: Question for Ray & List
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I wonder, are those kinds of lettering common on the web (most tend to 
think I'm mad when I add a grin, smirk, duck etc. to my text), or is it 
just us role players and general fantasy lit. crowd?

I for one don't recall seing it used except by role players.

Marc aka Caran...

Larry Siegel wrote:

>
>>
>> Sure can, as soon as someone points them out to me. <g,r,d, & h>
>>
>> Best, R.E.F.
>
>
>
> Just knowing the nature of the list.....Before anyone posts asking....
>
> I am assuming he meant <grins/runs/ducks & hides>
>
> :)
>
> Larry
>
> My Homepage
> http://www.psihawk.com
>
> Raymond E. Feist FAQ
> http://www.psihawk.com/feist
>
>




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Maybe he means wiseass, I dunno.

Adieu

Jimmy


>From: Caranorn Aglaredhel <caranorn@cmdnet.lu>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
>Subject: Re: Nakor
>Date: Thu, 04 Apr 2002 18:34:26 +0200
>
>Saying that one is wise is generally unwise;-) It might be true, could
>be stupidity or arrogance at work.
>
>Of course such could be true about any post like mine:-(
>
>Marc aka Caran...
>
>Nevyn wrote:
>
>>Nakor has to be my most favourite character. He reminds me of me. He is
>>wise, yet hides it, he is almost like an observer of the journeys, yet 
>>still
>>remaining a part of them
>>I would love to read a biography of him from his happenings of his earlier
>>life/s It would be like a dream come true is there ever a chance of this
>>happening or.. ?
>>
>>Thanks,
>>            Nevyn
>>________________________________________________________________________
>>
>>Not every love, but only those which have a noble purpose, are noble and
>>worthy of praise.
>>
>>- Plato
>>________________________________________________________________________
>>
>>
>
>


_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx



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Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 14:10:54 EST
Subject: Re: Nakor
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*** EOOH ***
From: Adam012882@cs.com
Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 14:10:54 EST
Subject: Re: Nakor
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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Talk sense to a fool and he calls you foolish.



In a message dated 4/4/02 8:46:42 AM Pacific Standard Time, 
caranorn@cmdnet.lu writes:
> Saying that one is wise is generally unwise;-) It might be true, could 
> be stupidity or arrogance at work.
> 
> Of course such could be true about any post like mine:-(
> 
> Marc aka Caran...
> 
> Nevyn wrote:
> 
> >Nakor has to be my most favourite character. He reminds me of me. He is
> >wise, yet hides it, he is almost like an observer of the journeys, yet still
> >remaining a part of them
> >I would love to read a biography of him from his happenings of his earlier
> >life/s It would be like a dream come true is there ever a chance of this
> >happening or.. ?
> >
> >Thanks,
> >            Nevyn
> >________________________________________________________________________
> >
> >Not every love, but only those which have a noble purpose, are noble and
> >worthy of praise.


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From: "MChaloner" <markchaloner@btinternet.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: My turn <grins>
Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 20:34:41 +0100
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*** EOOH ***
From: "MChaloner" <markchaloner@btinternet.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: My turn <grins>
Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 20:34:41 +0100
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

 1. What is your name?


 2. What colour knickers or pant's are you wearing right now?


 3. What are you listening to right now?


 4. What are the last four digits of your phone number, (mobile or
home)?


 5. What was the last thing you ate?


 6. If you were a crayon, what colour would you be?


 7. Where do you plan to go on your honeymoon?


 8. How is the weather right now?


 9. Last person you talked to on the phone?


10. What's the first thing you notice about the opposite sex?


11. Do you like the person that sent you this?


12. If you could change one thing about them, what would it be?


13. How are you today?


14. Your favourite drink?


15. Your favourite alcoholic drink?


16. How do you eat an Aero?


17. Favourite sport to watch?


18. What's the next CD you'd like to get?


19. Do you wear contacts, or have you ever?


20. Siblings and their ages?


21. Favourite month?


22. Favourite food?


23. Last movie you watched that made you laugh?


24. Last movie you watched that made you cry?


25. Favourite day of the year?


26. Are you shy to ask someone out?


27. Do you like scary or happy movies better?


28. Summer or Winter?


29. Hugs or Kisses?


30. Relationship or one night stands?


31. Chocolate or Vanilla?


32. Do you want your friends to write back?


33. Who is least likely to respond?


34. Who is most likely to respond?



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References: <B0F797A5-47E1-11D6-9409-003065A8A644@bittersea.com>
Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 12:33:33 -0800
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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Alan Kellogg <mythusmage@cts.com>
Subject: Re: Damage Control
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 12:33:33 -0800
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Alan Kellogg <mythusmage@cts.com>
Subject: Re: Damage Control
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

>On Wednesday, April 3, 2002, at 10:04 PM, Alan Kellogg wrote:
>
>>Word of the "scoop" in Locus has reached the Robert J. Sawyer list. 
>>Could someone send me a copy of Harlan's letter I could send? Be 
>>much appreciated.
>>
>>Alan
>>
>>
>>
>
>Alan, what are you talking about?
>
>Best, R.E.F.

Aaaaargh! Wrong List.

According to a report in Locus Isaac Asimov died of AIDS. According 
to Janet Jeppson (in a message from Harlan Ellison), no such thing. 
Brown should be printing a correction/retraction in next month's 
issue.

my bad.

Alan
-- 
Writing Practice at: <http://www.gamingoutpost.com>



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Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 20:10:01 +0100
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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Grandad Rufus <rufo@bigwig.net>
Subject: OT Asimov Damage Control
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 <B0F797A5-47E1-11D6-9409-003065A8A644@bittersea.com>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 20:10:01 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Grandad Rufus <rufo@bigwig.net>
Subject: OT Asimov Damage Control
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

In article <B0F797A5-47E1-11D6-9409-003065A8A644@bittersea.com>, Raymond
Feist <raymond@bittersea.com> writes
>
>On Wednesday, April 3, 2002, at 10:04 PM, Alan Kellogg wrote:
>
>> Word of the "scoop" in Locus has reached the Robert J. Sawyer list. 
>> Could someone send me a copy of Harlan's letter I could send? Be much 
>> appreciated.
>>
>> Alan
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>Alan, what are you talking about?
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>----
>
I believe he means the posting which I have copied below.

This was posted to alt.books.jack-chalker by Eva Whitley who made
several comments which I have snipped. If anyone wants to read them
they're still on the Chalker newsgroup.

Any flames to my personal mailbox please.

Reposted from alt.books.jack-chalker (normally, a quiet backwater )
#:o)


------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
Please circulate as and where you see fit. This is a bona fide request
from Harlan Ellison via the Ellison Webderland discussion board:


HARLAN ELLISON
- Tuesday, April 2 2002 14:30:39

RED ALERT! RED ALERT! RED ALERT!

MUSTER THE GOOMBAHS!

LOOSE THE DOGS OF WAR!

A CALL TO ARMS!!!!!

A few minutes ago I received a phone call from Isaac Asimov's widow,
Dr. Janet Jeppson. She was more distraught than I've heard her
manifest at any time since Isaac's passing. She was calling from New
York City to report that in the current issue of LOCUS, Charlie Brown
(or whoever) has published a belated article reprising the epilogue of
Isaac's memoir (as edited by Janet), IT'S BEEN A GOOD LIFE, in which
it was revealed--by Janet--that at the time of his death, Isaac had
developed AIDS from a tainted blood transfusion during his heart
surgery in the '80s.

But Charlie--or whoever wrote the piece--clearly had not READ the
epilogue, and proceeds to state that (I'm paraphrasing, from Janet's
précis; I don't get LOCUS) Isaac wanted to reveal his malaise, but was
"talked out of it by his wife, Janet Jeppson."

>From Janet's lips to my ear to you: "That is clearly, absolutely,
hurtfully UNTRUE!"

Janet is TERRIBLY UPSET at this egregious misreading of history, and
she called Charlie Brown, who said he'd run a correction . . . next
issue. A month from now.

Janet does not want this to stand unchallenged for a month. She has
asked me to help her spread the word. So I ASK YOU to go everywhere
you post, in every nook and cranny of the web, on every site you can
contact, and CORRECT this slovenly fan-babble error before it gains
any coin. LOCUS is hardly The New York Times, and the level of its
checking and vetting is somewhere close to nonexistent. A "correction"
will probably appear in a small box on the indicia page: Charlie
doesn't like to have to recant.

So fly, my blue monkeys; fly fly fly!!!

Every village and hamlet and waystation . . . let the voice of TRUTH
ring out. If you loved Isaac, and if you loved him one-fifth as much
as he loved Janet . . . honor his memory by serving this tiny favor
she has asked of me, and
you by extension.

Thank you. Yr. pal, Harlan
------------------------------------------------------------------------
-- 
*******
Grandad Rufus.

It's not that I have a dirty mind, you understand.
It's just that so many of my thoughts leave muddy little footprints...



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From: "MChaloner" <markchaloner@btinternet.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Ooops sorry
Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 21:51:16 +0100
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*** EOOH ***
From: "MChaloner" <markchaloner@btinternet.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Ooops sorry
Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 21:51:16 +0100
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Someone else posted this to the list - (definitely *NOT* me originally!)
- and I meant to forward it on to a friend out of interest.
How it got back on the list is beyond me - sorry folks.

Mark.



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Subject: OT-Re: My turn <grins>
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*** EOOH ***
From: RBlackley@aol.com
Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 15:05:11 EST
Subject: OT-Re: My turn <grins>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Who ever keeps sending this please STOP

Richard
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
"Wit is cultures insolence"
                         Aristotle
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-

In a message dated 4/4/2002 2:52:13 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
markchaloner@btinternet.com writes:


> 1. What is your name?
> 
> 
> 2. What colour knickers or pant's are you wearing right now?
> 
> 
> 3. What are you listening to right now?
> 
> 
> 4. What are the last four digits of your phone number, (mobile or
> home)?
> 
> 
> 5. What was the last thing you ate?
> 
> 
> 6. If you were a crayon, what colour would you be?
> 
> 
> 7. Where do you plan to go on your honeymoon?
> 
> 
> 8. How is the weather right now?
> 
> 
> 9. Last person you talked to on the phone?
> 
> 
> 10. What's the first thing you notice about the opposite sex?
> 
> 
> 11. Do you like the person that sent you this?
> 
> 
> 12. If you could change one thing about them, what would it be?
> 
> 
> 13. How are you today?
> 
> 
> 14. Your favourite drink?
> 
> 
> 15. Your favourite alcoholic drink?
> 
> 
> 16. How do you eat an Aero?
> 
> 
> 17. Favourite sport to watch?
> 
> 
> 18. What's the next CD you'd like to get?
> 
> 
> 19. Do you wear contacts, or have you ever?
> 
> 
> 20. Siblings and their ages?
> 
> 
> 21. Favourite month?
> 
> 
> 22. Favourite food?
> 
> 
> 23. Last movie you watched that made you laugh?
> 
> 
> 24. Last movie you watched that made you cry?
> 
> 
> 25. Favourite day of the year?
> 
> 
> 26. Are you shy to ask someone out?
> 
> 
> 27. Do you like scary or happy movies better?
> 
> 
> 28. Summer or Winter?
> 
> 
> 29. Hugs or Kisses?
> 
> 
> 30. Relationship or one night stands?
> 
> 
> 31. Chocolate or Vanilla?
> 
> 
> 32. Do you want your friends to write back?
> 
> 
> 33. Who is least likely to respond?
> 
> 
> 34. Who is most likely to respond?
> 
> 


-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
"Wit is cultures insolence"
                         Aristotle
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-

1,,
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Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 12:48:10 -0800
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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Alan Kellogg <mythusmage@cts.com>
Subject: Fwd: [robertjsawyer] Letter from Janet Asimov
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 12:48:10 -0800
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Alan Kellogg <mythusmage@cts.com>
Subject: Fwd: [robertjsawyer] Letter from Janet Asimov
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

This appeared on the Robert J. Sawyer mailing list, it appeared 
originally on the Locus web site.

I got it wrong. My apologies to everyone.

Alan

>X-eGroups-Return: 
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>Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 14:11:39 -0500
>Subject: [robertjsawyer] Letter from Janet Asimov
>Reply-To: robertjsawyer@yahoogroups.com
>
>Here's the letter from Janet Asimov, now on the LOCUS website:
>
>Dear Locus,
>
>I hope no one will believe that, according to the article in Locus, Isaac
>Asimov "wanted to reveal he had AIDS but was talked out of it at the time by
>his second wife, Janet Jeppson." A few years after Isaac's bypass surgery, he
>had some symptoms that made me read the medical journals---and then I wanted
>him tested for HIV. The internist and cardiologist said I was wrong. Testing
>was done only when he was seriously ill and in the hospital for surgery on
>his by then infected heart valves. The surgery was cancelled, and the doctors
>told us not to reveal Isaac's HIV. I argued with the doctors privately about
>this secrecy, but they prevailed, even after Isaac died. The doctors are dead
>now, and when Prometheus books asked me to write "It's Been a Good Life",
>Isaac's daughter and I agreed to go public on the HIV.
>
>
>Janet Asimov
>
>------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~-->
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>
>
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-- 
Writing Practice at: <http://www.gamingoutpost.com>



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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Nakor
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*** EOOH ***
From: coweater@alphalink.com.au
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Nakor
Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 09:01:45 +1000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Nevyn,

I asked a similar question some years back, mind you I didn't articulate 
it the correct way and received many a flame. From memory only one person 
realized what I'd meant, but by that time I was lowest of low.

Over the years I've been putting together my own Nakor Bio based on any 
reference to him in any of the books, quite an accomplished little man 
with alot more involvement to come I would guess.

Regards,

Brad



>
>"Nevyn" <alien4@wasp.net.au>
>Sent by: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>05/04/2002 01:32 AM
>Please respond to FEISTFANS-L
>
> 
>	 To:     FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
>	 cc: 
>	 Subject:        Nakor
>
>
>
>Nakor has to be my most favourite character. He reminds me of me. He is
>wise, yet hides it, he is almost like an observer of the journeys, yet 
>still
>remaining a part of them
>I would love to read a biography of him from his happenings of his earlier
>life/s It would be like a dream come true is there ever a chance of this
>happening or.. ?
>
>Thanks,
>	     Nevyn
>________________________________________________________________________
>
>Not every love, but only those which have a noble purpose, are noble and
>worthy of praise.
>
>- Plato
>________________________________________________________________________

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Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 15:33:23 -0800
Subject: Re: Damage Control
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 15:33:23 -0800
Subject: Re: Damage Control
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Thursday, April 4, 2002, at 12:33 PM, Alan Kellogg wrote:

>> On Wednesday, April 3, 2002, at 10:04 PM, Alan Kellogg wrote:
>>
>>> Word of the "scoop" in Locus has reached the Robert J. Sawyer list. 
>>> Could someone send me a copy of Harlan's letter I could send? Be much 
>>> appreciated.
>>>
>>> Alan
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Alan, what are you talking about?
>>
>> Best, R.E.F.
>
> Aaaaargh! Wrong List.
>
> According to a report in Locus Isaac Asimov died of AIDS. According to 
> Janet Jeppson (in a message from Harlan Ellison), no such thing. Brown 
> should be printing a correction/retraction in next month's issue.
>

Harlan may have messed up something in the translation.  Isaac died of a 
complications of AIDS, due to a blood transfusion in something like 
1983.  For reasons Janet glossed over in her message to other members of 
SFWA, the doctors at the time convinced Isaac to keep it under his hat.  
Or Isaac didn't want it said.  Or some such.  Anyway, Janet's preparing 
an afterword (I believe) to something of Isaac's that's being reprinted 
with the explanation of how he died in it.

The problem seems to be there was some debate when Isaac went 
symptomatic and some of the doctors involved ignored testing him for 
AIDS.  Given his health, age, and the level of treatment available back 
then, it probably was beyond anything they could do, but it's still "one 
of those situations" you hate reading about.

Anyway, the full facts and details will come out soon, if not sooner, in 
the reissue of Isaac's book with Janet's additions to it.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 15:52:17 -0800
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 15:52:17 -0800
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Alan Kellogg <mythusmage@cts.com>
Subject: Re: Damage Control
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I suspect the physicians in question were worried more about Saint 
Isaac's reputation than anything else. Those who've attended the San 
Diego Comicon may be aware of a fellow who keeps spreading some 
vicious rumors about all sorts of people. If somebody could get the 
goods on him he'd be doing hard time. He's not the only one in fandom.

So a few doctors made a bad decision, and Isaac lost a chance to 
speak out on the subject and put his efforts behind fighting it. A 
pity.

Alan 



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Subject: Re: A globe of Midkemia?
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 04 Apr 2002 17:54:51 -0800
From: Carl Dershem <dershem@cox.net>
Organization: Project Selene
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: A globe of Midkemia?
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Some DuDe wrote:
> 
> sounds good if i can help in any way as in help you gather data just ask me
> i would love to see it finished as soon as possible
> wat is your pern model?
> could you past a link to it?

The only help I need is a couple of maps which only Ray or Steve could
reliably send - they're the ones who *know*.
When it's ready, I'll post a link to the page that already has Pern on
it.

cd
-- 
Death to all Absolutists!



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 04 Apr 2002 17:55:44 -0800
From: Carl Dershem <dershem@cox.net>
Organization: Project Selene
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Question for Ray & List
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Raymond Feist wrote:
> 
> > But don't forget that Ray can have stimulating discussions with
> > intelligent people here on the list... <cough>

> Sure can, as soon as someone points them out to me. <g,r,d, & h>

:P

-- 
Death to all Absolutists!



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From: Tim Nicholas <tim@nicholas.net.nz>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Question for Ray & List
Message-ID: <20020405021435.GA15027@nicholas.net.nz>
References: <KKFFLIEJOCGJACAA@mailcity.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20020404104604.00a42260@mail.optonline.net> <3CAC8122.1040104@cmdnet.lu>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 14:14:35 +1200
From: Tim Nicholas <tim@nicholas.net.nz>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Question for Ray & List
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On Thu, Apr 04, 2002 at 06:36:50PM +0200, Caranorn Aglaredhel wrote:
> I wonder, are those kinds of lettering common on the web (most tend to 
> think I'm mad when I add a grin, smirk, duck etc. to my text), or is it 
> just us role players and general fantasy lit. crowd?
> 
> I for one don't recall seing it used except by role players.
> 

Well, geeks in general seem to use these sorts of short-hands quite
a lot. Other than family I don't often communicate online with
people who aren't geeks so I don't know what it's like for other
people.
Some people go half way and do things like *grin* instead,
which is less ambiguous, but takes more time and effort to do.
Especially in real time or semi real time chat it doesn't work so
well, as it doesn't flow well when you type it. Once people get
used to using one type of text expression they generally stick with
it. The smilies though don't directly translate. Sometimes it's a
<g> situation and sometimes its a :) situation. 

I have a friend who particularly likes ;)_ which seems to convey the
correct impression, which is that he is drooling, maniacal and
shouldn't be taken to seriously.

Tim

PS. I think some of them originated with News, and some came from
IRC, and others were used more on mailing lists. I don't know which
is, or if its actually true at all. 


-- 
Tim Nicholas                          ||                      Cilix
Email: tim@nicholas.net.nz            ||       Dunedin, New Zealand
http://tim.nicholas.net.nz/           ||  Cell/SMS: +64 21 113 0399
"Grow up, Larry. You give me too much credit." - Linus Torvalds



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Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 19:40:38 -0800
Subject: Re: A globe of Midkemia?
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 19:40:38 -0800
Subject: Re: A globe of Midkemia?
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Thursday, April 4, 2002, at 05:54 PM, Carl Dershem wrote:

> Some DuDe wrote:
>>
>> sounds good if i can help in any way as in help you gather data just 
>> ask me
>> i would love to see it finished as soon as possible
>> wat is your pern model?
>> could you past a link to it?
>
> The only help I need is a couple of maps which only Ray or Steve could
> reliably send - they're the ones who *know*.

Color me dumb.  You sent me e-mail as I was starting to sink into the 
miasma of pneumonia, so I think I completely spaced.  What was it you 
needed?  Probably Steve's a better source, anyway.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 04 Apr 2002 20:36:42 -0800
From: Carl Dershem <dershem@cox.net>
Organization: Project Selene
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: A globe of Midkemia?
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Raymond Feist wrote:
> 
> On Thursday, April 4, 2002, at 05:54 PM, Carl Dershem wrote:
> 
> > Some DuDe wrote:
> >>
> >> sounds good if i can help in any way as in help you gather data just
> >> ask me
> >> i would love to see it finished as soon as possible
> >> wat is your pern model?
> >> could you past a link to it?
> >
> > The only help I need is a couple of maps which only Ray or Steve could
> > reliably send - they're the ones who *know*.
> 
> Color me dumb.  You sent me e-mail as I was starting to sink into the
> miasma of pneumonia, so I think I completely spaced.  What was it you
> needed?  Probably Steve's a better source, anyway.

Understood - being sick *and* busy is a trap for good intentions.

A map, preferably in mercator projection, with lat/long lines would do
it.  I know enough about the landforms in the published areas to get
those right, but hints for the unpublished areas would make it clearer. 
You have my e-mail address, or can leave them with Maryelizabeth at the
store.  From there on in, it's just hard slogging.

Hope you're feeling better now!

cd
-- 
Death to all Absolutists!



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Ok :)

_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com



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Subject: Re: mIRC
Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2002 18:02:43 +0200
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*** EOOH ***
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From: "PHILIPPE NGUYEN PHUNG" <phrill@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: mIRC
Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2002 18:02:43 +0200
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Apr 2002 16:02:43.0661 (UTC) FILETIME=[520C2FD0:01C1DCBB]
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

SERVER:  irc.rt.ru
CHANNEL: #krondor

Everyone come on so we can get a proper channel happening
I need the cahnnel description to be able to add the server.





_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.



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From: "Cameron Gurr" <gurrc@brightontown.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
References: <5B2AE08C-4824-11D6-AF7C-003065A8A644@bittersea.com> <a05100300b8d296a66a09@[204.216.160.190]>
Subject: Re: Damage Control
Date: Sat, 6 Apr 2002 08:48:55 +0800
MIME-Version: 1.0
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	charset="iso-8859-1"
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Cameron Gurr" <gurrc@brightontown.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Damage Control
Date: Sat, 6 Apr 2002 08:48:55 +0800
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I've heard this from another site that I frequent.

The problem that Janet is trying to express, as I udnerstand it, is that
this publication has implied that Issac wanted to release the information,
adn Janet didn't, adn that this caused some friction between them.

This is not true, as both Issac and Janet were prepared to tell the press,
however they were talked out of it by the physicians, and several other
people they later realised they should not have been listening to.

Cameron.



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From: "Some DuDe" <somedude1_2000@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: mIRC
Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2002 11:55:31 +1000
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From: "Some DuDe" <somedude1_2000@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: mIRC
Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2002 11:55:31 +1000
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Ok Channel Description...Ive called it The Inn Of The Broken Shield
that is in krondor isnt it?
if i remember its the one james sets up as a fake one isnt it?
everyone
server: irc.rt.ru
channel: #krondor

i have a friend monitoring the the channel 24/7 so it will never be offline 
from now on hopefully

>From: "PHILIPPE NGUYEN PHUNG" <phrill@hotmail.com>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
>Subject: Re: mIRC
>Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2002 18:02:43 +0200
>
>SERVER:  irc.rt.ru
>CHANNEL: #krondor
>
>Everyone come on so we can get a proper channel happening
>I need the cahnnel description to be able to add the server.
>
>
>
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.
>




_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx



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From: "PHILIPPE NGUYEN PHUNG" <phrill@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: mIRC
Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2002 14:39:52 +0200
Mime-Version: 1.0
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*** EOOH ***
X-Originating-IP: [195.134.33.82]
From: "PHILIPPE NGUYEN PHUNG" <phrill@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: mIRC
Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2002 14:39:52 +0200
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Apr 2002 12:39:52.0913 (UTC) FILETIME=[26212C10:01C1DD68]
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Sorry I ment server description.U know the one u have to enter if u wanna 
add a server.

_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com



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From: "Shawn Green" <Lore_Master_Mamo@msn.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>, "djevol013" <djevol013@cs.com>,
        "dotsantalady" <dotsantalady@hotmail.com>,
        "birdbea" <birdbea@hotmail.com>,
        "Byran Buel" <thesmellyfish@hotmail.com>,
        "Mandy Morre" <polevault_chic@yahoo.com>,
        "loserlord" <loserlord@hotmail.com>
Subject: Answers some questions and Asks one of his own
Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 01:32:54 -0400
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*** EOOH ***
X-Originating-IP: [67.201.26.41]
From: "Shawn Green" <Lore_Master_Mamo@msn.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>, "djevol013" <djevol013@cs.com>,
        "dotsantalady" <dotsantalady@hotmail.com>,
        "birdbea" <birdbea@hotmail.com>,
        "Byran Buel" <thesmellyfish@hotmail.com>,
        "Mandy Morre" <polevault_chic@yahoo.com>,
        "loserlord" <loserlord@hotmail.com>
Subject: Answers some questions and Asks one of his own
Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 01:32:54 -0400
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Apr 2002 05:33:35.0515 (UTC) FILETIME=[EDA376B0:01C1DEBE]
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I was Bored and had nothing better do at 1 in the morning so I answer this email~!~
The Questions

1. What is your name?


2. What color knickers or pant's are you wearing right now?


3. What are you listening to right now?


4. What are the last four digits of your phone number, (mobile or
home)?


5. What was the last thing you ate?


6. If you were a crayon, what color would you be?


7. Where do you plan to go on your honeymoon?


8. How is the weather right now?


9. Last person you talked to on the phone?


10. What's the first thing you notice about the opposite sex?


11. Do you like the person that sent you this?


12. If you could change one thing about them, what would it be?


13. How are you today?


14. Your favorite drink?


15. Your favorite alcoholic drink?


16. How do you eat an Aero?


17. Favorite sport to watch?


18. What's the next CD you'd like to get?


19. Do you wear contacts, or have you ever?


20. Siblings and their ages?


21. Favorite month?


22. Favorite food?


23. Last movie you watched that made you laugh?


24. Last movie you watched that made you cry?


25. Favorite day of the year?


26. Are you shy to ask someone out?


27. Do you like scary or happy movies better?


28. Summer or Winter?


29. Hugs or Kisses?


30. Relationship or one night stands?


31. Chocolate or Vanilla?


32. Do you want your friends to write back?


33. Who is least likely to respond?


34. Who is most likely to respond?

The Answers
1 Shawn
2 Black
3 FF VIII Sound Track Faye Wong Eyes on Me
4 ****
5 Mint
6 Blackish blue
7 Ireland
8 COLD
9 Phone?
10 Mind
11 He/she/it can't be that bad or I wouldn't have email them*grins*
12 n/a
13 Been Better
14 Cherry Coke
15 Don't Drink 18
16 aero? Oreo? in my milk  
17 Judo
18 Chrono Trigger OST
19 Glasses
20 Sister 13, Brother 11 *I think and hope*
21 September I like cool days with leaves falling from the trees
22 Chocolate Thunder from down under
23 K-Pax
24 Lord of the Rings it was that good
25 My birthday of course
26 Me Shy? LOL I have an ego bigger then Texas
27 Happy anyone like Scary movies better stay away from me and those I care about
28 Winter Let it snow
29 Kisses are some much more fun from an 18 guys point of view
30 Relationships
31 Rocky Road (there is always a 3rd option if you look hard enough)
32 Yes because then I can have something to do
33 I don't know
34 Smelly Fish*grins*

My question  
IF THE MEANING OF LIFE IS 42 THEN WHAT IS THE QUESTION?Get more from the Web.  FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com

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Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 15:54:56 +1000 (GMT+1000)
X-PH: V4.1@cornell.edu (Cornell Modified) 
From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Answers some questions and Asks one of his own
In-Reply-To: <DAV586wjDq9awFCHxny000108d4@hotmail.com>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 15:54:56 +1000 (GMT+1000)
From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Answers some questions and Asks one of his own
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Please refrain from sending this kind of "junk" to the list.


> I was Bored and had nothing better do at 1 in the morning so I answer this email~!~
> The Questions
>
> 1. What is your name?
>
>
> 2. What color knickers or pant's are you wearing right now?
>
>
> 3. What are you listening to right now?
>
>
> 4. What are the last four digits of your phone number, (mobile or
> home)?
>
>
> 5. What was the last thing you ate?
>
>
> 6. If you were a crayon, what color would you be?
>
>
> 7. Where do you plan to go on your honeymoon?
>
>
> 8. How is the weather right now?
>
>
> 9. Last person you talked to on the phone?
>
>
> 10. What's the first thing you notice about the opposite sex?
>
>
> 11. Do you like the person that sent you this?
>
>
> 12. If you could change one thing about them, what would it be?
>
>
> 13. How are you today?
>
>
> 14. Your favorite drink?
>
>
> 15. Your favorite alcoholic drink?
>
>
> 16. How do you eat an Aero?
>
>
> 17. Favorite sport to watch?
>
>
> 18. What's the next CD you'd like to get?
>
>
> 19. Do you wear contacts, or have you ever?
>
>
> 20. Siblings and their ages?
>
>
> 21. Favorite month?
>
>
> 22. Favorite food?
>
>
> 23. Last movie you watched that made you laugh?
>
>
> 24. Last movie you watched that made you cry?
>
>
> 25. Favorite day of the year?
>
>
> 26. Are you shy to ask someone out?
>
>
> 27. Do you like scary or happy movies better?
>
>
> 28. Summer or Winter?
>
>
> 29. Hugs or Kisses?
>
>
> 30. Relationship or one night stands?
>
>
> 31. Chocolate or Vanilla?
>
>
> 32. Do you want your friends to write back?
>
>
> 33. Who is least likely to respond?
>
>
> 34. Who is most likely to respond?
>
> The Answers
> 1 Shawn
> 2 Black
> 3 FF VIII Sound Track Faye Wong Eyes on Me
> 4 ****
> 5 Mint
> 6 Blackish blue
> 7 Ireland
> 8 COLD
> 9 Phone?
> 10 Mind
> 11 He/she/it can't be that bad or I wouldn't have email them*grins*
> 12 n/a
> 13 Been Better
> 14 Cherry Coke
> 15 Don't Drink 18
> 16 aero? Oreo? in my milk
> 17 Judo
> 18 Chrono Trigger OST
> 19 Glasses
> 20 Sister 13, Brother 11 *I think and hope*
> 21 September I like cool days with leaves falling from the trees
> 22 Chocolate Thunder from down under
> 23 K-Pax
> 24 Lord of the Rings it was that good
> 25 My birthday of course
> 26 Me Shy? LOL I have an ego bigger then Texas
> 27 Happy anyone like Scary movies better stay away from me and those I care about
> 28 Winter Let it snow
> 29 Kisses are some much more fun from an 18 guys point of view
> 30 Relationships
> 31 Rocky Road (there is always a 3rd option if you look hard enough)
> 32 Yes because then I can have something to do
> 33 I don't know
> 34 Smelly Fish*grins*
>
> My question
> IF THE MEANING OF LIFE IS 42 THEN WHAT IS THE QUESTION?Get more from the Web.  FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com
>

Thanks
Darragh
-=-=
www.iamtheporkfireman.com
[Email]: s356179@student.uq.edu.au [ICQ]: 114283262



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From: "James & Celeste Matlock" <jmatlock@cox.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: 
Date: Sun, 7 Apr 2002 23:12:46 -0700
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James & Celeste Matlock" <jmatlock@cox.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: 
Date: Sun, 7 Apr 2002 23:12:46 -0700
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Our first was six hours, second child six hours, third child four and last
one was three and a half hours.  My sister-in-law had her second child
within 45 minutes of starting labor and she did not have to push, baby just
slipped on out.  None of her other children where that fast but all of her
labors under 4 hours.

Jim

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Raymond Feist
> Sent: Saturday, March 30, 2002 9:52 AM
> To: FEISTFANS-L
> Subject: Re:
>
>
>
> On Saturday, March 30, 2002, at 08:36 AM, Jason Martin wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >>
> >> On Saturday, March 30, 2002, at 02:00 AM, Jason Martin wrote:
> >>
> >>> Well come around November 20th or so there will be a new addition to
> >>> my
> >>> family and the List family.  Yep you guessed it my wife is Pregnant!!
> >>> (Wahoo)   Nice thing is we have done this before (2 years ago with
> >>> Gavin),
> >>> but the bad news is, each pregnancy is suppose to be different!
> >>>     Gavin turns two this May, and loves books so I think at bed time I
> >>> will
> >>> sit down and read Magician to him.  I get the feeling he is going to
> >>> like it
> >>> since he now raids my bookshelves and pulls out my books and carries
> >>> them
> >>> around.  Hopefully in a few years we will have a Little Nakor running
> >>> around
> >>> screaming "There is no Magic!"  Just thought I would share the great
> >>> news to
> >>> a rather large family I have never meet.
> >>>
> >>> Jason Martin
> >>>
> >>> PS  Seeing how this is a Feist List, would that make Ray the
> >>> Father/GrandFather of us all? =)  J/k....
> >>> "Too much knowlege never makes for simple decisions."
> >>>                            Ghanima- Children of Dune
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >> Congratulations!
> >>
> >> As for every pregnancy being different, the usual rule of thumb is the
> >> second one is easier, if for no other reason than you've both been
> >> through it before and a lot of the 1st time anxiety will not be there.
> >> Often, labor is shorter, too, which should make your wife happy.
> >>
> >> My best wishes for a healthy happy baby!
> >>
> >> R.E.F.
> >> ----
> >>
> >> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
> >> stupidity.
> >>
> > If it suppose to be shorter, then we made be in for a very fast
> > delievery
> > then.  Her labor only last 6 hours with Gavin.  Her water broke at 3pm,
> > and
> > then we had Gavin by 9:30PM that night.  If it's suppose to be shorter
> > this
> > time around I may just miss it if I'm at work and I have to drive to the
> > Hospital to meet her.  I have an hour commute from home to work one way.
> >
> > Jason
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> My ex-wife went from 30 hours to 3.    I went to bed at 11 pm and she
> said she thought maybe it was close for the 2nd baby.  At 1:45 she woke
> me up and said, "We're leaving now!"  I scooped up our daughter, dropped
> her at a friend's house on the fly and off we went to the hospital,
> getting there by 2:30.  The nurse checked my wife and said, "When you
> have another contraction, push a bit so I can see where the baby is."
> My wife did and the nurse said "Oh, don't do that again!  I'm going to
> get the doctor."  James was born at 5:00am.  He would have been there
> maybe even a half-hour earlier except the doctor was in another delivery
> and couldn't get to us for 30 minutes.
>
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
>
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
> stupidity.
>



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From: "Some DuDe" <somedude1_2000@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Answers some questions and Asks one of his own
Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2002 18:43:40 +1000
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*** EOOH ***
X-Originating-IP: [202.7.207.4]
From: "Some DuDe" <somedude1_2000@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Answers some questions and Asks one of his own
Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2002 18:43:40 +1000
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Apr 2002 08:43:40.0282 (UTC) FILETIME=[7B68CDA0:01C1DED9]
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

i agree
do not send forwards to the list or any other form of spam or chain mail


>From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
>Subject: Re: Answers some questions and Asks one of his own
>Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 15:54:56 +1000 (GMT+1000)
>
>Please refrain from sending this kind of "junk" to the list.
>
>
> > I was Bored and had nothing better do at 1 in the morning so I answer 
>this email~!~
> > The Questions
> >
> > 1. What is your name?
> >
> >
> > 2. What color knickers or pant's are you wearing right now?
> >
> >
> > 3. What are you listening to right now?
> >
> >
> > 4. What are the last four digits of your phone number, (mobile or
> > home)?
> >
> >
> > 5. What was the last thing you ate?
> >
> >
> > 6. If you were a crayon, what color would you be?
> >
> >
> > 7. Where do you plan to go on your honeymoon?
> >
> >
> > 8. How is the weather right now?
> >
> >
> > 9. Last person you talked to on the phone?
> >
> >
> > 10. What's the first thing you notice about the opposite sex?
> >
> >
> > 11. Do you like the person that sent you this?
> >
> >
> > 12. If you could change one thing about them, what would it be?
> >
> >
> > 13. How are you today?
> >
> >
> > 14. Your favorite drink?
> >
> >
> > 15. Your favorite alcoholic drink?
> >
> >
> > 16. How do you eat an Aero?
> >
> >
> > 17. Favorite sport to watch?
> >
> >
> > 18. What's the next CD you'd like to get?
> >
> >
> > 19. Do you wear contacts, or have you ever?
> >
> >
> > 20. Siblings and their ages?
> >
> >
> > 21. Favorite month?
> >
> >
> > 22. Favorite food?
> >
> >
> > 23. Last movie you watched that made you laugh?
> >
> >
> > 24. Last movie you watched that made you cry?
> >
> >
> > 25. Favorite day of the year?
> >
> >
> > 26. Are you shy to ask someone out?
> >
> >
> > 27. Do you like scary or happy movies better?
> >
> >
> > 28. Summer or Winter?
> >
> >
> > 29. Hugs or Kisses?
> >
> >
> > 30. Relationship or one night stands?
> >
> >
> > 31. Chocolate or Vanilla?
> >
> >
> > 32. Do you want your friends to write back?
> >
> >
> > 33. Who is least likely to respond?
> >
> >
> > 34. Who is most likely to respond?
> >
> > The Answers
> > 1 Shawn
> > 2 Black
> > 3 FF VIII Sound Track Faye Wong Eyes on Me
> > 4 ****
> > 5 Mint
> > 6 Blackish blue
> > 7 Ireland
> > 8 COLD
> > 9 Phone?
> > 10 Mind
> > 11 He/she/it can't be that bad or I wouldn't have email them*grins*
> > 12 n/a
> > 13 Been Better
> > 14 Cherry Coke
> > 15 Don't Drink 18
> > 16 aero? Oreo? in my milk
> > 17 Judo
> > 18 Chrono Trigger OST
> > 19 Glasses
> > 20 Sister 13, Brother 11 *I think and hope*
> > 21 September I like cool days with leaves falling from the trees
> > 22 Chocolate Thunder from down under
> > 23 K-Pax
> > 24 Lord of the Rings it was that good
> > 25 My birthday of course
> > 26 Me Shy? LOL I have an ego bigger then Texas
> > 27 Happy anyone like Scary movies better stay away from me and those I 
>care about
> > 28 Winter Let it snow
> > 29 Kisses are some much more fun from an 18 guys point of view
> > 30 Relationships
> > 31 Rocky Road (there is always a 3rd option if you look hard enough)
> > 32 Yes because then I can have something to do
> > 33 I don't know
> > 34 Smelly Fish*grins*
> >
> > My question
> > IF THE MEANING OF LIFE IS 42 THEN WHAT IS THE QUESTION?Get more from the 
>Web.  FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com
> >
>
>Thanks
>Darragh
>-=-=
>www.iamtheporkfireman.com
>[Email]: s356179@student.uq.edu.au [ICQ]: 114283262
>




_________________________________________________________________
Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
http://www.hotmail.com



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Message-ID: <96.249f2405.29e2e186@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 08:05:26 EDT
Subject: Re: Answers some questions and Asks one of his own
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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*** EOOH ***
From: RBlackley@aol.com
Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 08:05:26 EDT
Subject: Re: Answers some questions and Asks one of his own
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

yeah it is really annoying.
richard

In a message dated 4/8/02 1:02:10 AM, somedude1_2000@hotmail.com writes:
>i agree
>do not send forwards to the list or any other form of spam or chain mail



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From: "Mark Tonkin" <shadowfire@chariot.net.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Murder in Lamut in June
Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 23:13:05 +0930
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Mark Tonkin" <shadowfire@chariot.net.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Murder in Lamut in June
Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 23:13:05 +0930
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I just got the Australian Voyager Online newsletter and it mentions in there
that Murder In Lamut will be out in June.  Does anybody know a more precise
date for release here in Australia?  Thanks.

- MARK

========================================
Dilbert's rules of order #2:
"I love deadlines.  I especially like the wooshing
sound they make as they go flying by."



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References: <NDBBKHPIGLBALHEIODGDIEMHCLAA.jmatlock@cox.net>
Subject: Re: 
Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 18:15:27 +0100
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Christopher Livingston" <Chrislivingston@btinternet.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: 
Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 18:15:27 +0100
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Our first (and only) was 20 hours.

Chris Livingston

----- Original Message -----
From: "James & Celeste Matlock" <jmatlock@cox.net>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Monday, April 08, 2002 7:12 AM
Subject: RE:


> Our first was six hours, second child six hours, third child four and last
> one was three and a half hours.  My sister-in-law had her second child
> within 45 minutes of starting labor and she did not have to push, baby just
> slipped on out.  None of her other children where that fast but all of her
> labors under 4 hours.
>
> Jim
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Raymond Feist
> > Sent: Saturday, March 30, 2002 9:52 AM
> > To: FEISTFANS-L
> > Subject: Re:
> >
> >
> >
> > On Saturday, March 30, 2002, at 08:36 AM, Jason Martin wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >
> > >>
> > >> On Saturday, March 30, 2002, at 02:00 AM, Jason Martin wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> Well come around November 20th or so there will be a new addition to
> > >>> my
> > >>> family and the List family.  Yep you guessed it my wife is Pregnant!!
> > >>> (Wahoo)   Nice thing is we have done this before (2 years ago with
> > >>> Gavin),
> > >>> but the bad news is, each pregnancy is suppose to be different!
> > >>>     Gavin turns two this May, and loves books so I think at bed time I
> > >>> will
> > >>> sit down and read Magician to him.  I get the feeling he is going to
> > >>> like it
> > >>> since he now raids my bookshelves and pulls out my books and carries
> > >>> them
> > >>> around.  Hopefully in a few years we will have a Little Nakor running
> > >>> around
> > >>> screaming "There is no Magic!"  Just thought I would share the great
> > >>> news to
> > >>> a rather large family I have never meet.
> > >>>
> > >>> Jason Martin
> > >>>
> > >>> PS  Seeing how this is a Feist List, would that make Ray the
> > >>> Father/GrandFather of us all? =)  J/k....
> > >>> "Too much knowlege never makes for simple decisions."
> > >>>                            Ghanima- Children of Dune
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >> Congratulations!
> > >>
> > >> As for every pregnancy being different, the usual rule of thumb is the
> > >> second one is easier, if for no other reason than you've both been
> > >> through it before and a lot of the 1st time anxiety will not be there.
> > >> Often, labor is shorter, too, which should make your wife happy.
> > >>
> > >> My best wishes for a healthy happy baby!
> > >>
> > >> R.E.F.
> > >> ----
> > >>
> > >> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
> > >> stupidity.
> > >>
> > > If it suppose to be shorter, then we made be in for a very fast
> > > delievery
> > > then.  Her labor only last 6 hours with Gavin.  Her water broke at 3pm,
> > > and
> > > then we had Gavin by 9:30PM that night.  If it's suppose to be shorter
> > > this
> > > time around I may just miss it if I'm at work and I have to drive to the
> > > Hospital to meet her.  I have an hour commute from home to work one way.
> > >
> > > Jason
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > My ex-wife went from 30 hours to 3.    I went to bed at 11 pm and she
> > said she thought maybe it was close for the 2nd baby.  At 1:45 she woke
> > me up and said, "We're leaving now!"  I scooped up our daughter, dropped
> > her at a friend's house on the fly and off we went to the hospital,
> > getting there by 2:30.  The nurse checked my wife and said, "When you
> > have another contraction, push a bit so I can see where the baby is."
> > My wife did and the nurse said "Oh, don't do that again!  I'm going to
> > get the doctor."  James was born at 5:00am.  He would have been there
> > maybe even a half-hour earlier except the doctor was in another delivery
> > and couldn't get to us for 30 minutes.
> >
> > Best, R.E.F.
> > ----
> >
> > Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
> > stupidity.
> >
>



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Subject: Re: Bittersea.com
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Date: Tue,  9 Apr 2002 09:13:28 +0100
Subject: Re: Bittersea.com
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> Originally it was to be the web site of my corporation, the Bitter Sea 
> Company, Inc. Unfortunately, my divorce has put BSC out of business, 
> except as an "alter-ego" in tax terms.

Sorry Ray, but I think you may encounter some trouble with a certain
Ruppert "Roo" Avery who, have I heard, planned to take the "Bitter Sea
Company" name for its own business.

;)

Syl
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Subject: Re: A globe of Midkemia?
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Date: Tue,  9 Apr 2002 09:17:29 +0100
Subject: Re: A globe of Midkemia?
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To whoever planned this "globe of Midkemia" thing, just know that the
face of Midkemia changes quite a *lot* after the 5th Riftwar.

Syl
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> Saying that one is wise is generally unwise;-) It might be true, could 
> be stupidity or arrogance at work.

Hum hum, *clearing throat*

...Never attribute to wisdom what can satisfactorily be explained away
by stupidity.

(g, l.a., s.r, k & a)

Syl

PS: between parenthesis letters were for (grin, looking around,
spotting Ray, kneeing & appologising)
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<tap>  <tap>  <tap> .... Is this thing on?

Okay, it's been pretty quiet lately (which isn't necessarily a bad
thing). I did come up with a question, though.


VERY MINOR Magician/Empire series spoilers may follow



I've been re-reading Magician and Silverthorn, working my way through
all Ray's books again. In the middle of Magician (right at the
beginning of Apprentice, in the paperbacks) there's the scene with Pug
in the swamp. It starts with a slave slowly and loudly dying, and a
soldier goes over and kills him with his sword.

That brings me to my question for Ray...how much of the rules of
Tsuranni honor were built at the time you wrote Magician? I ask
because it seems odd to me that a soldier would kill a slave with a
sword, even if the slave was annoying him by dying too loudly, since
that would give an honorable death to one that was without honor. It
just seems out of place, knowing as much about Tsuranni culture as we
do by the end of Magician (not to mention the Empire trilogy, which
obviously hadn't been written at the time you wrote Magician).

Of course, the Empire series also showed that some Tsuranni were able
to overcome their bias against slaves, at least to some extent, but
that doesn't seem to be the case here. I would have expected the
soldier to put a stern face on and try to ignore the slave, or perhaps
break the slave's neck or strangle him or something.

Or is it just that whatever honor he might have received by being
killed by the soldier wasn't worth enough for the soldier to go out of
his way by hanging him?

Okay...I'm done picking nits now.



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Subject: Re: A globe of Midkemia?
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 09 Apr 2002 16:13:19 -0600
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: A globe of Midkemia?
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Sylvain Guehl wrote:
> 
> To whoever planned this "globe of Midkemia" thing, just know that the
> face of Midkemia changes quite a *lot* after the 5th Riftwar.

I can't see that as being a problem due to the fact that the 5th Riftwar
is a ways away yet in the books :)

> This e-mail and any attachments are confidential.

Good lord. You really should tell these guys that this "little" .sig is
annoying and ridiculous :P

Craig J. Ries



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Subject: Re: A globe of Midkemia?
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*** EOOH ***
From: RBlackley@aol.com
Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2002 18:41:07 EDT
Subject: Re: A globe of Midkemia?
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Signatures like that are used normally of corporate e-mail systems especially 
lawyers that send info via e-mail.  Often it is company rules that you must 
display it.
       Richard

In a message dated 4/9/2002 6:32:08 PM Eastern Daylight Time, cries@yifan.net 
writes:


> Sylvain Guehl wrote:
> > 
> > To whoever planned this "globe of Midkemia" thing, just know that the
> > face of Midkemia changes quite a *lot* after the 5th Riftwar.
> 
> I can't see that as being a problem due to the fact that the 5th Riftwar
> is a ways away yet in the books :)
> 
> > This e-mail and any attachments are confidential.
> 
> Good lord. You really should tell these guys that this "little" .sig is
> annoying and ridiculous :P
> 
> Craig J. Ries
> 


-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
"Wit is cultured insolence"
                         Aristotle
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-

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Subject: Re: Tsuranni question
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*** EOOH ***
From: "rob tavares" <vze26fdh@verizon.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Tsuranni question
Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2002 18:51:39 -0700
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SPOILERS FOR EMPIRE SERIES














hey earl, if you read Servant, there's a section in there where one of
the barbarians is killed via sword by a soldier to save him the pain of
dying from the poison of a relli that bit him....
I see your point though.

Dying from a weapon is a warriors death..... Whats a soldier killing a
/slave/ like that for....
----- Original Message -----
From: "Earl Borah" <earl@ncn.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <fEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, April 09, 2002 2:46 PM
Subject: Tsuranni question


> <tap>  <tap>  <tap> .... Is this thing on?
>
> Okay, it's been pretty quiet lately (which isn't necessarily a bad
> thing). I did come up with a question, though.
>
>
> VERY MINOR Magician/Empire series spoilers may follow
>
>
>
> I've been re-reading Magician and Silverthorn, working my way
> through all Ray's books again. In the middle of Magician (right at
> the beginning of Apprentice, in the paperbacks) there's the scene
> with Pug in the swamp. It starts with a slave slowly and loudly
> dying, and a soldier goes over and kills him with his sword.
>
> That brings me to my question for Ray...how much of the rules of
> Tsuranni honor were built at the time you wrote Magician? I ask
> because it seems odd to me that a soldier would kill a slave with a
> sword, even if the slave was annoying him by dying too loudly, since
> that would give an honorable death to one that was without honor. It
> just seems out of place, knowing as much about Tsuranni culture as
> we do by the end of Magician (not to mention the Empire trilogy,
> which obviously hadn't been written at the time you wrote Magician).
>
> Of course, the Empire series also showed that some Tsuranni were
> able to overcome their bias against slaves, at least to some extent,
> but that doesn't seem to be the case here. I would have expected the
> soldier to put a stern face on and try to ignore the slave, or
> perhaps break the slave's neck or strangle him or something.
>
> Or is it just that whatever honor he might have received by being
> killed by the soldier wasn't worth enough for the soldier to go out
> of his way by hanging him?
>
> Okay...I'm done picking nits now.
>



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Subject: OT: sig (was Re: A globe of Midkemia?)
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 00:15:56 +0100
Subject: OT: sig (was Re: A globe of Midkemia?)
From: "Sylvain Guehl" <fenyxkell@demo.xandmail.com>
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>Signatures like that are used normally of corporate e-mail systems 
>especially lawyers that send info via e-mail.  Often it is company rules 
>that you must display it.
>      Richard<BR>

Exactly. I'm working in this company (XandMail) and we have to display
this sig, I'm sorry. We use our own webmail technology
(www.xandmail.com)

Syl

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Subject: Re: sig (was Re: A globe of Midkemia?)
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Darren McClung" <dmcclung1@kc.rr.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: sig (was Re: A globe of Midkemia?)
Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2002 19:13:51 -0500
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/35/19057.html

The Reigster's Email Disclaimer Awards 2001

These things are rediculous.  They have no legal usefulness, and end up
wasting incredible amounts of bandwidth.  I love the ones that say "If you
are not the intended recipient, do not read this email."  If people are dumb
enough to send sensitive information over unencrypted email, what good can a
disclaimer possibly do them?

Darren

----- Original Message -----
From: "Sylvain Guehl" <fenyxkell@demo.xandmail.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, April 09, 2002 18:15
Subject: OT: sig (was Re: A globe of Midkemia?)


> >Signatures like that are used normally of corporate e-mail systems
> >especially lawyers that send info via e-mail. Often it is company rules
> >that you must display it.
> > Richard<BR>
>
> Exactly. I'm working in this company (XandMail) and we have to display
>this sig, I'm sorry. We use our own webmail technology (www.xandmail.com)
>
> Syl
>
> ***************************************************************
> This e-mail and any attachments are confidential.
> They may contain privileged information and are intended
> for the named addressee(s) only.
> They must not be distributed without our consent.
> If you are not the intended recipient,
> please notify us immediately and do not disclose,
> distribute, or retain this email and any part of it.
> We believe, but do not warrant, that this e-mail and any
> attachments are virus free.
> You must therefore take full responsibility for virus checking.
> Subsidiaries of X And Mail reserve the right to monitor
> all e-mail communications through their network.
> This e-mail is not a commitment, in any way, of XandMail.
> ****************************************************************
>



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Subject: Re: A globe of Midkemia?
Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2002 20:28:17 -0700
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*** EOOH ***
From: "rob tavares" <vze26fdh@verizon.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: A globe of Midkemia?
Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2002 20:28:17 -0700
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Hmm, did I miss something? 5th riftwar?
does this occur after the serpentwar?
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: Sylvain Guehl 
>To: FEISTFANS-L 
>Sent: Tuesday, April 09, 2002 1:17 AM
>Subject: Re: A globe of Midkemia?
>
>
>To whoever planned this "globe of Midkemia" thing, just know that
>the face of Midkemia changes quite a *lot* after the 5th Riftwar.
>
>Syl
>
>
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Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2002 17:38:40 -0700
Subject: Re: Tsuranni question
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Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2002 17:38:40 -0700
Subject: Re: Tsuranni question
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Tuesday, April 9, 2002, at 02:46 PM, Earl Borah wrote:

> <tap>  <tap>  <tap> .... Is this thing on?
>
> Okay, it's been pretty quiet lately (which isn't necessarily a bad 
> thing). I did
> come up with a question, though.
>
>
> VERY MINOR Magician/Empire series spoilers may follow
>
>
>
> I've been re-reading Magician and Silverthorn, working my way through 
> all Ray's
> books again. In the middle of Magician (right at the beginning of 
> Apprentice, in
> the paperbacks) there's the scene with Pug in the swamp. It starts with 
> a slave
> slowly and loudly dying, and a soldier goes over and kills him with his 
> sword.
>
> That brings me to my question for Ray...how much of the rules of 
> Tsuranni honor
> were built at the time you wrote Magician? I ask because it seems odd 
> to me that a
> soldier would kill a slave with a sword, even if the slave was annoying 
> him by
> dying too loudly, since that would give an honorable death to one that 
> was without
> honor. It just seems out of place, knowing as much about Tsuranni 
> culture as we do
> by the end of Magician (not to mention the Empire trilogy, which 
> obviously hadn't
> been written at the time you wrote Magician).
>

No, that cultural context was there already, witness the scene later in 
the book where the slave master is hanged by Hokanu.  In that context, 
it was just a "mercy killing," not any extended honor.  Think of it as 
an inverse, it's witholding the honor of a blade death that's the 
"dishonor," not bestowing an "honor" if that makes sense.


Best, R.E.F.

  ----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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From: "Dennis Groome" <nallix@cox.net>
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Subject: Reading Order
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Dennis Groome" <nallix@cox.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Reading Order
Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2002 21:19:19 -0500
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I discovered Magician over a decade ago when I was in middle school and
managed to get the school library to sell me their copies of Apprentice,
Master, and Silverthorn.  They then managed to get put on a shelf and hidden
behind the myriad books I had to read for high school and college.  So 2
weeks ago I cleaned off some old shelves and found them again.  Since then
I've been going through the books non stop and have also acquired A Darkness
at Sethanon, which I know is the last book of the Riftwar Saga.  So, where
do I go from there?  I'm vaguely familiar with the different series, but the
order they were publish or the order they occur in Midkemia time.  So, after
ADaS, what order should I read them for maximum enjoyment?  I'd hate to pick
up a book only to find out it's out of order, akin to watching episodes of
your favorite TV show out of sequence.

-Dennis H. Groome V
ICQ: 11430261 AIM/Yahoo: AmoNympham
Microsoft Messenger: marcus_giovani@hotmail.com





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Subject: Re: Reading Order
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*** EOOH ***
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From: "Adam Thornton" <sandman_one87@hotmail.com>
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Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 14:39:00 +1200
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go to crydee.com it's all there :)
just click on reading order on the sidebar

----- Original Message -----
From: "Dennis Groome" <nallix@cox.net>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2002 2:19 PM
Subject: Reading Order


> I discovered Magician over a decade ago when I was in middle school and
> managed to get the school library to sell me their copies of Apprentice,
> Master, and Silverthorn.  They then managed to get put on a shelf and hidden
> behind the myriad books I had to read for high school and college.  So 2
> weeks ago I cleaned off some old shelves and found them again.  Since then
> I've been going through the books non stop and have also acquired A Darkness
> at Sethanon, which I know is the last book of the Riftwar Saga.  So, where
> do I go from there?  I'm vaguely familiar with the different series, but the
> order they were publish or the order they occur in Midkemia time.  So, after
> ADaS, what order should I read them for maximum enjoyment?  I'd hate to pick
> up a book only to find out it's out of order, akin to watching episodes of
> your favorite TV show out of sequence.
>
> -Dennis H. Groome V
> ICQ: 11430261 AIM/Yahoo: AmoNympham
> Microsoft Messenger: marcus_giovani@hotmail.com
>
>
>
>



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*** EOOH ***
From: "Dennis Groome" <nallix@cox.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Reading Order
Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2002 21:50:27 -0500
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-Dennis H. Groome V
ICQ: 11430261 AIM/Yahoo: AmoNympham
Microsoft Messenger: marcus_giovani@hotmail.com


----- Original Message -----
From: "Adam Thornton" <sandman_one87@hotmail.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, April 09, 2002 9:39 PM
Subject: Re: Reading Order


> go to crydee.com it's all there :)
> just click on reading order on the sidebar
>

many thanks, I honestly don't know how I managed to pass up that site.  I've
been plowing through search engines and guessing domains all evening looking
for more information.



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From: "Michael Kovar" <mk82624@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re: Reading Order
Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2002 22:32:43 -0500
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From: "Michael Kovar" <mk82624@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re: Reading Order
Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2002 22:32:43 -0500
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Exactly, my thinking.  I have read 2 of the complete series, but would
like a listing of all the series, starting with book 1 to book ?, in
each series, so that I can follow along in sequence.  I did the web
site thing, but they don't seem to be in order in either list.  All I
want is a straight forward list of each series.
Michael Kovar

----- Original Message -----
>From: Dennis Groome
>Sent: Tuesday, April 09, 2002 9:36 PM
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: Reading Order
>
>I discovered Magician over a decade ago when I was in middle school and
>managed to get the school library to sell me their copies of Apprentice,
>Master, and Silverthorn.  They then managed to get put on a shelf and hidden
>behind the myriad books I had to read for high school and college.  So 2
>weeks ago I cleaned off some old shelves and found them again.  Since then
>I've been going through the books non stop and have also acquired A Darkness
>at Sethanon, which I know is the last book of the Riftwar Saga.  So, where
>do I go from there?  I'm vaguely familiar with the different series, but the
>order they were publish or the order they occur in Midkemia time.  So, after
>ADaS, what order should I read them for maximum enjoyment?  I'd hate to pick
>up a book only to find out it's out of order, akin to watching episodes of
>your favorite TV show out of sequence.
>
>-Dennis H. Groome V
>ICQ: 11430261 AIM/Yahoo: AmoNympham
>Microsoft Messenger: marcus_giovani@hotmail.comGet more from the Web.  FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com

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From: "David P. Rouse" <viperphi@ezaccess.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Reading Order
Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2002 23:57:10 -0400
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From: "David P. Rouse" <viperphi@ezaccess.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Reading Order
Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2002 23:57:10 -0400
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SUGGESTED READING ORDER
(suggested as in my own perception of the time line.)


The Riftwar Saga
 1. Magician
     *Apprentice
     *Master

Note: Honoured Enemy takes place somewhere here.

 2. Silverthorn
 3. A Darkness at Sethanon

These happen somewhere in between the Riftwar and Prince of the Blood
but do not necessarily have to be read here.

The Riftwar Legacy
 4. Krondor: The Betrayal
 5. Krondor: The Assassins
 6. Krondor: The Tear of the Gods

After the Riftwar
 7. Prince of the Blood
 8. The King's Buccaneer
 
The Serpentwar Saga
 9. Shadow of a Dark Queen
10. Rise of a Merchant Prince
11. Rage of a Demon King
12. Shards of a Broken Crown







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From: "David P. Rouse" <viperphi@ezaccess.net>
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Subject: RE: Reading Order
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From: "David P. Rouse" <viperphi@ezaccess.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Reading Order
Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 00:04:12 -0400
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For clarity, Honoured Enemy takes place some time during the Tsurani
invasion in Magician, not after the war has ended. 

-David





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Subject: Re: Reading Order
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From: "Chad" <feistfan@chadkeffer.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Reading Order
Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2002 23:23:15 -0500
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I usually just dig through all the authors books on the shelf (sometimes in
multiple book stores), this will tell me two things:

1) The original copyright year.  The novel with the oldest one is usually a
good one to start with.

2) His/Her latest novel, there will usually be a chronological listing of
previous novels in the series inside the cover.

3) The cover, they usually have messages like "So-and-so's stunning
conclusion to..." or "Book x in the Fill-In-The-Blank trilogy"

- Chad

----- Original Message -----
>From: "Dennis Groome" <nallix@cox.net>
>To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
>Sent: Tuesday, April 09, 2002 9:19 PM
>Subject: Reading Order
>
>
>I discovered Magician over a decade ago when I was in middle school and
>managed to get the school library to sell me their copies of Apprentice,
>Master, and Silverthorn.  They then managed to get put on a shelf and hidden
>behind the myriad books I had to read for high school and college.  So 2
>weeks ago I cleaned off some old shelves and found them again.  Since then
>I've been going through the books non stop and have also acquired A Darkness
>at Sethanon, which I know is the last book of the Riftwar Saga.  So, where
>do I go from there?  I'm vaguely familiar with the different series, but the
>order they were publish or the order they occur in Midkemia time.  So, after
>ADaS, what order should I read them for maximum enjoyment?  I'd hate to pick
>up a book only to find out it's out of order, akin to watching episodes of
>your favorite TV show out of sequence.
>
>-Dennis H. Groome V
>ICQ: 11430261 AIM/Yahoo: AmoNympham
>Microsoft Messenger: marcus_giovani@hotmail.com
>


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From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Reading Order
Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 13:34:06 +0800
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From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Reading Order
Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 13:34:06 +0800
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That's not a bad plan but gets confusing with things like Book 5 in the
Hitch Hiker's trilogy :)

Dave

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu 
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Chad
> Sent: Wednesday, 10 April 2002 12:23 PM
> To: FEISTFANS-L
> Subject: Re: Reading Order
> 
> 
> I usually just dig through all the authors books on the shelf 
> (sometimes in
> multiple book stores), this will tell me two things:
> 
> 1) The original copyright year.  The novel with the oldest 
> one is usually a
> good one to start with.
> 
> 2) His/Her latest novel, there will usually be a 
> chronological listing of
> previous novels in the series inside the cover.
> 
> 3) The cover, they usually have messages like "So-and-so's stunning
> conclusion to..." or "Book x in the Fill-In-The-Blank trilogy"
> 
> - Chad
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dennis Groome" <nallix@cox.net>
> To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> Sent: Tuesday, April 09, 2002 9:19 PM
> Subject: Reading Order
> 
> 
> I discovered Magician over a decade ago when I was in middle 
> school and
> managed to get the school library to sell me their copies of 
> Apprentice,
> Master, and Silverthorn.  They then managed to get put on a 
> shelf and hidden
> behind the myriad books I had to read for high school and 
> college.  So 2
> weeks ago I cleaned off some old shelves and found them 
> again.  Since then
> I've been going through the books non stop and have also 
> acquired A Darkness
> at Sethanon, which I know is the last book of the Riftwar 
> Saga.  So, where
> do I go from there?  I'm vaguely familiar with the different 
> series, but the
> order they were publish or the order they occur in Midkemia 
> time.  So, after
> ADaS, what order should I read them for maximum enjoyment?  
> I'd hate to pick
> up a book only to find out it's out of order, akin to 
> watching episodes of
> your favorite TV show out of sequence.
> 
> -Dennis H. Groome V
> ICQ: 11430261 AIM/Yahoo: AmoNympham
> Microsoft Messenger: marcus_giovani@hotmail.com
> 



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References: <GUAKD5$IRbKj1eo7_XVBZ89h_hGYC9B3bCQb8W0LM7qjEuob@demo.xandmail.com> <3CB3677F.35E14347@yifan.net>
Subject: Honoured Enemy
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From: "Reinhardt Gerber" <Reinhardt@Basix.co.za>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Honoured Enemy
Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 12:36:12 +0200
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Can anybody tell me when Honoured Enemy will be out or if it is out yet.
Everybody talks about it and I don't know anything about it yet.
Reinhardt



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From: "Stephen Morrison" <rebmalin@crydee.org>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Honoured Enemy
Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 20:41:31 +1000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Stephen Morrison" <rebmalin@crydee.org>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Honoured Enemy
Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 20:41:31 +1000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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It's been out for quite a while now. Quite a good read, gives you an insight
"down in the trenches" of the Riftwar.

-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Reinhardt Gerber
>Sent: Tuesday, 10 April 2001 8:36 PM
>To: FEISTFANS-L
>Subject: Honoured Enemy
>
>
>Can anybody tell me when Honoured Enemy will be out or if it is out yet.
>Everybody talks about it and I don't know anything about it yet.
>Reinhardt
>


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From: "James Holden" <james@globalvision.com>
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Subject: Next
Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 12:03:48 +0100
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From: "James Holden" <james@globalvision.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Next
Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 12:03:48 +0100
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In Rage of a Demon king, the emerald queen is bringing a large number of
troops, why is such a problem for the kingdom to match this? the riftwar has
a pretty vast force with the armies of the east and west.

Is there going to be a new saga after the serpent wars..?  I like Krondor
Betrayal but I always kind of feel as if I've been there already and I
wandered if there are plans to carry on further down the time line..?  And
when are these people going to find gun powder ;0)

Interesting also that in a few of the books pug, macros and company have
little trouble going through time & space and yet they haven't found a world
with any type of technology!



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From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: RE: Honoured Enemy
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 12:25:52 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: RE: Honoured Enemy
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

And you'll need to use amazon.co.uk, /not/ amazon.com, because
it was released in the "overseas" markets, not in the US one.

rip

At 11:41 AM 4/10/02, Stephen Morrison wrote:
>It's been out for quite a while now. Quite a good read, gives you an insight
>"down in the trenches" of the Riftwar.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Reinhardt Gerber
>Sent: Tuesday, 10 April 2001 8:36 PM
>To: FEISTFANS-L
>Subject: Honoured Enemy
>
>
>Can anybody tell me when Honoured Enemy will be out or if it is out yet.
>Everybody talks about it and I don't know anything about it yet.
>Reinhardt



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From: Kenneth Jones <killkenny@thos.co.za>
Subject: Re: Honoured Enemy
In-Reply-To: <015a01c0c1aa$1018dd80$6e03a8c0@edge>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 13:39:46 +0200
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Kenneth Jones <killkenny@thos.co.za>
Subject: Re: Honoured Enemy
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Not meaning to sound like an ass, but please will you change your date to 
2002 on your computer{:-)

Thanks lots.

Regards,
Kenneth

At 12:36 PM 4/10/01 +0200, you wrote:
>Can anybody tell me when Honoured Enemy will be out or if it is out yet.
>Everybody talks about it and I don't know anything about it yet.
>Reinhardt



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References: <015a01c0c1aa$1018dd80$6e03a8c0@edge> <5.1.0.14.2.20020410122513.030660d0@mail.swindon.wrsec.fr>
Subject: Re: Honoured Enemy
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Reinhardt Gerber" <Reinhardt@Basix.co.za>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Honoured Enemy
Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 13:44:15 +0200
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

> And you'll need to use amazon.co.uk, /not/ amazon.com, because
> it was released in the "overseas" markets, not in the US one.
>
> rip
>

So the chances of me getting it in South Africa are very small...
It's a bit difficult for me buying books in pounds with the Strength of the
SA Rand ;)

Reinhardt



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Subject: Re: Honoured Enemy
Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 13:46:17 +0200
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From: "Reinhardt Gerber" <Reinhardt@Basix.co.za>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Honoured Enemy
Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 13:46:17 +0200
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> And you'll need to use amazon.co.uk, /not/ amazon.com, because
> it was released in the "overseas" markets, not in the US one.


Sorry, I see I can get it here, but only the one that gets published in May
2002...



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References: <GUAKD5$IRbKj1eo7_XVBZ89h_hGYC9B3bCQb8W0LM7qjEuob@demo.xandmail.com> <3CB3677F.35E14347@yifan.net> <5.1.0.14.2.20020410133901.00aca1e0@elvandar.thos.co.za>
Subject: Re: Honoured Enemy
Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 13:53:23 +0200
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From: "Reinhardt Gerber" <Reinhardt@Basix.co.za>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Honoured Enemy
Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 13:53:23 +0200
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Sorry, I needed to check something and forgot to set it back

----- Original Message -----
From: "Kenneth Jones" <killkenny@thos.co.za>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2002 1:39 PM
Subject: Re: Honoured Enemy


> Not meaning to sound like an ass, but please will you change your date to
> 2002 on your computer{:-)
>
> Thanks lots.
>
> Regards,
> Kenneth
>
> At 12:36 PM 4/10/01 +0200, you wrote:
> >Can anybody tell me when Honoured Enemy will be out or if it is out yet.
> >Everybody talks about it and I don't know anything about it yet.
> >Reinhardt
>



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Subject: Re: Honoured Enemy
Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 14:37:29 +0200
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From: "Reinhardt Gerber" <Reinhardt@Basix.co.za>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Honoured Enemy
Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 14:37:29 +0200
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What about Krondor: The Crawler and Krondor: The Dark Mage?
When is it scheduled for printing?

Reinhardt



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Subject: Re: Next
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some people keep talking about the "5th riftwar" i have no idea in the
slightest what they are on, but i do know that early next year is a new book
called Talon of the Silver Hawk, its a new series called Conclave of
Shadows, and it takes place after the serpentwar saga (which rocks)
:)

and regarding the guy who hopes everyone in midkemia finds "technology" and
"gun powder" i for one pray that nothing like that ever happens, as it would
wreck everything in my honest opinion

*boom*
gone!



----- Original Message -----
From: "James Holden" <james@globalvision.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2002 11:03 PM
Subject: Next


> In Rage of a Demon king, the emerald queen is bringing a large number of
> troops, why is such a problem for the kingdom to match this? the riftwar has
> a pretty vast force with the armies of the east and west.
>
> Is there going to be a new saga after the serpent wars..?  I like Krondor
> Betrayal but I always kind of feel as if I've been there already and I
> wandered if there are plans to carry on further down the time line..?  And
> when are these people going to find gun powder ;0)
>
> Interesting also that in a few of the books pug, macros and company have
> little trouble going through time & space and yet they haven't found a world
> with any type of technology!
>
>



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Subject: Re: Honoured Enemy
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My guess is about a year after they are scheduled for writing.

rip

At 01:37 PM 4/10/02, Reinhardt Gerber wrote:
>What about Krondor: The Crawler and Krondor: The Dark Mage?
>When is it scheduled for printing?
>
>Reinhardt



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Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 15:16:53 +0200
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Hello!

Slight spoilerwarning or something.

> Hmm, did I miss something? 5th riftwar?
> does this occur after the serpentwar?

Serpentwar was the second riftwar I believe, so yes this occurs after 
serpentwar. Ray haven't written about it yet. The reason we know about 
it is that the roleplaying game is set some time after (don't know how 
long after) the 5th riftwar.

Cheers,
Simon

-- 
Simon Rönnberg,    adm@acc.umu.se |  rhuagh@acc.umu.se
Stipendiegränd 6A, 070-5631747    |  simion@cs.umu.se
907 35 Umeå
--
"God, root, what is difference?" - Pitr, www.userfriendly.org
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From: "James Holden" <james@globalvision.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Next
Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 14:27:47 +0100
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From: "James Holden" <james@globalvision.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Next
Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 14:27:47 +0100
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I hope they don't find it, but with all their resources and "understanding"
they never seem too, not even on other worlds. ;0)

They seem (from the images in my mind) to be fairly advanced in terms of
building things, using horses and carriages etc but then again this is a
different world, so maybe gunpowder doesn't exist ;0)  Alas, much of my
impressions of the "Kingdom" are based around me thinking in terms of our
world, in say early 18th century of London.  I imagine that Ray tried to
create a viable world which he knew people reading the books could relate to
and feel an allegiance.

-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Adam Thornton
>Sent: 10 April 2002 13:33
>To: FEISTFANS-L
>Subject: Re: Next
>
>
>some people keep talking about the "5th riftwar" i have no idea in the
>slightest what they are on, but i do know that early next year is a new book
>called Talon of the Silver Hawk, its a new series called Conclave of
>Shadows, and it takes place after the serpentwar saga (which rocks)
>:)
>
>and regarding the guy who hopes everyone in midkemia finds "technology" and
>"gun powder" i for one pray that nothing like that ever happens, as it would
>wreck everything in my honest opinion
>
>*boom*
>gone!
>
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "James Holden" <james@globalvision.com>
>To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
>Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2002 11:03 PM
>Subject: Next
>
>
>> In Rage of a Demon king, the emerald queen is bringing a large number of
>> troops, why is such a problem for the kingdom to match this? the riftwar
>has
>> a pretty vast force with the armies of the east and west.
>>
>> Is there going to be a new saga after the serpent wars..?  I like Krondor
>> Betrayal but I always kind of feel as if I've been there already and I
>> wandered if there are plans to carry on further down the time line..?  And
>> when are these people going to find gun powder ;0)
>>
>> Interesting also that in a few of the books pug, macros and company have
>> little trouble going through time & space and yet they haven't found a
>world
>> with any type of technology!
>>
>>
>


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Subject: Re: Honoured Enemy
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Mark Tonkin" <shadowfire@chariot.net.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Honoured Enemy
Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 23:03:55 +0930
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Reinhardt Gerber" <Reinhardt@Basix.co.za>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2002 10:07 PM
Subject: Re: Honoured Enemy


> What about Krondor: The Crawler and Krondor: The Dark Mage?
> When is it scheduled for printing?
>
> Reinhardt
>

Ray hasn't even started writing them yet so some undefined time in the
future.

- MARK



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Subject: Re: Honoured Enemy
Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 01:35:51 +1200
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*** EOOH ***
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From: "Adam Thornton" <sandman_one87@hotmail.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Honoured Enemy
Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 01:35:51 +1200
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as far as i know the crawler i think is coming out after the 3rd and final
book of the legacy of the riftwar series, but before talon of the silver
hawk comes out
i could be wrong... very wrong tho
but thats when i think it is

----- Original Message -----
From: "Reinhardt Gerber" <Reinhardt@Basix.co.za>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 12:37 AM
Subject: Re: Honoured Enemy


> What about Krondor: The Crawler and Krondor: The Dark Mage?
> When is it scheduled for printing?
>
> Reinhardt
>
>



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References: <GUAKD5$IRbKj1eo7_XVBZ89h_hGYC9B3bCQb8W0LM7qjEuob@demo.xandmail.com> <001a01c1e03f$c1f4ec60$eae0fea9@6ryth01> <20020410151653.A29523@khan.acc.umu.se>
Subject: Re: A globe of Midkemia?
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Subject: Re: A globe of Midkemia?
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what roleplaying game is set after the 5th riftwar ??


----- Original Message -----
From: "Simon Rönnberg" <rhuagh@acc.umu.se>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 1:16 AM
Subject: Re: A globe of Midkemia?


> Hello!
>
> Slight spoilerwarning or something.
>
> > Hmm, did I miss something? 5th riftwar?
> > does this occur after the serpentwar?
>
> Serpentwar was the second riftwar I believe, so yes this occurs after
> serpentwar. Ray haven't written about it yet. The reason we know about
> it is that the roleplaying game is set some time after (don't know how
> long after) the 5th riftwar.
>
> Cheers,
> Simon
>
> --
> Simon Rönnberg,    adm@acc.umu.se |  rhuagh@acc.umu.se
> Stipendiegränd 6A, 070-5631747    |  simion@cs.umu.se
> 907 35 Umeå
> --
> "God, root, what is difference?" - Pitr, www.userfriendly.org
> --
>
>



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Subject: Midkemia Roleplaying: was Re: A globe of Midkemia?
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From: "" <dante@kingcon.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Midkemia Roleplaying: was Re: A globe of Midkemia?
Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 10:04:29 -0400
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Speaking of the roleplaying stuff, I keep meaning to ask this to the list: are 
there any places to buy the core gaming system rules, in any condition? 

I've written to Steve Abrams at Midkemia Press a couple times via email 
about it, and he didn't know of any places (online or otherwise) where 
someone could buy the core materials anymore. I know they're out of print, 
and that according to Steve, licensing the gaming system is being 
considered, but there's no specific timeframe or plan as yet.

Maybe Ray could offer some insight about this? Our gaming group is 
comprised of avid Feist readers, and the materials that are available at the 
Midkemia Press website for download are great, so we'd love to try this 
system, especially in a world that we very much like :) 

If the hope is to license the system and reintroduce/reprint it, I think it'd be 
great to coordinate it with one of the book releases, which might pique 
interest and offer some more promotional opportunities.

I checked the Crydee site the other day to see if John had anything listed, 
just in case he had a set available, but nothing. I haven't seen anything 
else online, either.

Any advice would be appreciated! Thanks :)

----- Original Message -----
From: Simon Rönnberg
Sent: 04/10/2002 9:16:53 AM
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: A globe of Midkemia?

> Serpentwar was the second riftwar I believe, so yes this occurs after 
> serpentwar. Ray haven't written about it yet. The reason we know about 
> it is that the roleplaying game is set some time after (don't know how 
> long after) the 5th riftwar.
> 
> Cheers,
> Simon
> 



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From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Next
Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 10:52:08 -0400
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From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Next
Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 10:52:08 -0400
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If you read the short story Profit and the Grey Assassin, which takes place 
in the Hall of the Worlds, there is mention of Earth, which, since one of 
the characters has a wrist watch set to Tokyo time, must be around our 
current technological level, and there is mention of other worlds at 
diferent tech levels, some, IIRC, at the laser gun age.

adieu

Jimmy

>From: "James Holden" <james@globalvision.com>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
>Subject: RE: Next
>Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 14:27:47 +0100
>
>I hope they don't find it, but with all their resources and "understanding"
>they never seem too, not even on other worlds. ;0)
>
>They seem (from the images in my mind) to be fairly advanced in terms of
>building things, using horses and carriages etc but then again this is a
>different world, so maybe gunpowder doesn't exist ;0)  Alas, much of my
>impressions of the "Kingdom" are based around me thinking in terms of our
>world, in say early 18th century of London.  I imagine that Ray tried to
>create a viable world which he knew people reading the books could relate 
>to
>and feel an allegiance.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Adam Thornton
>Sent: 10 April 2002 13:33
>To: FEISTFANS-L
>Subject: Re: Next
>
>
>some people keep talking about the "5th riftwar" i have no idea in the
>slightest what they are on, but i do know that early next year is a new 
>book
>called Talon of the Silver Hawk, its a new series called Conclave of
>Shadows, and it takes place after the serpentwar saga (which rocks)
>:)
>
>and regarding the guy who hopes everyone in midkemia finds "technology" and
>"gun powder" i for one pray that nothing like that ever happens, as it 
>would
>wreck everything in my honest opinion
>
>*boom*
>gone!
>
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "James Holden" <james@globalvision.com>
>To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
>Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2002 11:03 PM
>Subject: Next
>
>
> > In Rage of a Demon king, the emerald queen is bringing a large number of
> > troops, why is such a problem for the kingdom to match this? the riftwar
>has
> > a pretty vast force with the armies of the east and west.
> >
> > Is there going to be a new saga after the serpent wars..?  I like 
>Krondor
> > Betrayal but I always kind of feel as if I've been there already and I
> > wandered if there are plans to carry on further down the time line..?  
>And
> > when are these people going to find gun powder ;0)
> >
> > Interesting also that in a few of the books pug, macros and company have
> > little trouble going through time & space and yet they haven't found a
>world
> > with any type of technology!
> >
> >
>


_________________________________________________________________
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From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
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Subject: RE: Next
Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 23:51:09 +0800
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From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Next
Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 23:51:09 +0800
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Didn't the Valheru take down some race that piloted large space craft?

David

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu 
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of James Silva
> Sent: Wednesday, 10 April 2002 10:52 PM
> To: FEISTFANS-L
> Subject: RE: Next
> 
> 
> If you read the short story Profit and the Grey Assassin, 
> which takes place 
> in the Hall of the Worlds, there is mention of Earth, which, 
> since one of 
> the characters has a wrist watch set to Tokyo time, must be 
> around our 
> current technological level, and there is mention of other worlds at 
> diferent tech levels, some, IIRC, at the laser gun age.
> 
> adieu
> 
> Jimmy
> 
> >From: "James Holden" <james@globalvision.com>
> >Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> >To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
> >Subject: RE: Next
> >Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 14:27:47 +0100
> >
> >I hope they don't find it, but with all their resources and 
> "understanding"
> >they never seem too, not even on other worlds. ;0)
> >
> >They seem (from the images in my mind) to be fairly advanced 
> in terms of
> >building things, using horses and carriages etc but then 
> again this is a
> >different world, so maybe gunpowder doesn't exist ;0)  Alas, 
> much of my
> >impressions of the "Kingdom" are based around me thinking in 
> terms of our
> >world, in say early 18th century of London.  I imagine that 
> Ray tried to
> >create a viable world which he knew people reading the books 
> could relate 
> >to
> >and feel an allegiance.
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> >[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Adam Thornton
> >Sent: 10 April 2002 13:33
> >To: FEISTFANS-L
> >Subject: Re: Next
> >
> >
> >some people keep talking about the "5th riftwar" i have no 
> idea in the
> >slightest what they are on, but i do know that early next 
> year is a new 
> >book
> >called Talon of the Silver Hawk, its a new series called Conclave of
> >Shadows, and it takes place after the serpentwar saga (which rocks)
> >:)
> >
> >and regarding the guy who hopes everyone in midkemia finds 
> "technology" and
> >"gun powder" i for one pray that nothing like that ever 
> happens, as it 
> >would
> >wreck everything in my honest opinion
> >
> >*boom*
> >gone!
> >
> >
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "James Holden" <james@globalvision.com>
> >To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> >Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2002 11:03 PM
> >Subject: Next
> >
> >
> > > In Rage of a Demon king, the emerald queen is bringing a 
> large number of
> > > troops, why is such a problem for the kingdom to match 
> this? the riftwar
> >has
> > > a pretty vast force with the armies of the east and west.
> > >
> > > Is there going to be a new saga after the serpent wars..?  I like 
> >Krondor
> > > Betrayal but I always kind of feel as if I've been there 
> already and I
> > > wandered if there are plans to carry on further down the 
> time line..?  
> >And
> > > when are these people going to find gun powder ;0)
> > >
> > > Interesting also that in a few of the books pug, macros 
> and company have
> > > little trouble going through time & space and yet they 
> haven't found a
> >world
> > > with any type of technology!
> > >
> > >
> >
> 
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
> 



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From: Dun Xiahou <xiahoudun13@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: Next
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Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 09:01:45 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dun Xiahou <xiahoudun13@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: Next
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I may be completely wrong but, I think I remember
reading somewhere that in Midkemia gun powder simply
is impossible to make via a difference in the laws of
physics.  I also remember hearing that this is
supposed to be an entirely different cosmos from
Earth; i.e. Earth does not and will not ever exist in
the Universe that Midkemia resides.  That being said,
I guess Profit and the Grey Assassin isn't really
truly a part of the whole series of boks and stories,
even though it has the hall of worlds and that guy who
helped Miranda.... hmmmm... that's a little tougher to
swallow though.  I guess it's just easier simply to
forget Profit and the Grey Assassin ever existed.

- Xiahou Dun

--- James Silva <kiehtan@hotmail.com> wrote:
> If you read the short story Profit and the Grey
> Assassin, which takes place 
> in the Hall of the Worlds, there is mention of
> Earth, which, since one of 
> the characters has a wrist watch set to Tokyo time,
> must be around our 
> current technological level, and there is mention of
> other worlds at 
> diferent tech levels, some, IIRC, at the laser gun
> age.
> 
> adieu
> 
> Jimmy
> 
> >From: "James Holden" <james@globalvision.com>
> >Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> >To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
> >Subject: RE: Next
> >Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 14:27:47 +0100
> >
> >I hope they don't find it, but with all their
> resources and "understanding"
> >they never seem too, not even on other worlds. ;0)
> >
> >They seem (from the images in my mind) to be fairly
> advanced in terms of
> >building things, using horses and carriages etc but
> then again this is a
> >different world, so maybe gunpowder doesn't exist
> ;0)  Alas, much of my
> >impressions of the "Kingdom" are based around me
> thinking in terms of our
> >world, in say early 18th century of London.  I
> imagine that Ray tried to
> >create a viable world which he knew people reading
> the books could relate 
> >to
> >and feel an allegiance.
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> >[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of
> Adam Thornton
> >Sent: 10 April 2002 13:33
> >To: FEISTFANS-L
> >Subject: Re: Next
> >
> >
> >some people keep talking about the "5th riftwar" i
> have no idea in the
> >slightest what they are on, but i do know that
> early next year is a new 
> >book
> >called Talon of the Silver Hawk, its a new series
> called Conclave of
> >Shadows, and it takes place after the serpentwar
> saga (which rocks)
> >:)
> >
> >and regarding the guy who hopes everyone in
> midkemia finds "technology" and
> >"gun powder" i for one pray that nothing like that
> ever happens, as it 
> >would
> >wreck everything in my honest opinion
> >
> >*boom*
> >gone!
> >
> >
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "James Holden" <james@globalvision.com>
> >To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> >Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2002 11:03 PM
> >Subject: Next
> >
> >
> > > In Rage of a Demon king, the emerald queen is
> bringing a large number of
> > > troops, why is such a problem for the kingdom to
> match this? the riftwar
> >has
> > > a pretty vast force with the armies of the east
> and west.
> > >
> > > Is there going to be a new saga after the
> serpent wars..?  I like 
> >Krondor
> > > Betrayal but I always kind of feel as if I've
> been there already and I
> > > wandered if there are plans to carry on further
> down the time line..?  
> >And
> > > when are these people going to find gun powder
> ;0)
> > >
> > > Interesting also that in a few of the books pug,
> macros and company have
> > > little trouble going through time & space and
> yet they haven't found a
> >world
> > > with any type of technology!
> > >
> > >
> >
> 
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device:
> http://mobile.msn.com
> 


__________________________________________________
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Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 09:29:56 -0700
Subject: Re: Honoured Enemy
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Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 09:29:56 -0700
Subject: Re: Honoured Enemy
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Tuesday, April 10, 2001, at 04:44 AM, Reinhardt Gerber wrote:

>> And you'll need to use amazon.co.uk, /not/ amazon.com, because
>> it was released in the "overseas" markets, not in the US one.
>>
>> rip
>>
>
> So the chances of me getting it in South Africa are very small...
> It's a bit difficult for me buying books in pounds with the Strength of 
> the
> SA Rand ;)
>
> Reinhardt
>
>
>
>

You should be able to find it in bookstores in South Africa.  South 
Africa is one of the British Export Markets.  You might want to wait a 
year until the paperback comes out, but the hardcover is out in SA right 
now.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Subject: Re: Honoured Enemy
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 09:30:43 -0700
Subject: Re: Honoured Enemy
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Wednesday, April 10, 2002, at 05:37 AM, Reinhardt Gerber wrote:

> What about Krondor: The Crawler and Krondor: The Dark Mage?
> When is it scheduled for printing?
>
> Reinhardt
>
>
>
>

I haven't even written them yet.  At least a couple of years, if not 
longer.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 09:32:45 -0700
Subject: Re: Honoured Enemy
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Wednesday, April 10, 2002, at 06:35 AM, Adam Thornton wrote:

> as far as i know the crawler i think is coming out after the 3rd and 
> final
> book of the legacy of the riftwar series, but before talon of the silver
> hawk comes out
> i could be wrong... very wrong tho
> but thats when i think it is
>
>

Wrong.

Right now it's Murder in LaMut as the next book released in the 
UK/Export markets.  Talon of the Silver Hawk in US and UK after that.  
Then Jimmy The Hand in the UK/Export markets.  Then King of Foxes.  Then 
the three books in the 3rd Riftwar series, and I don't know what else 
during that three year run, perhaps the other two Krondor books or 
perhaps more Legends of the Riftwars.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 09:34:32 -0700
Subject: Re: Midkemia Roleplaying: was Re: A globe of Midkemia?
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Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 09:34:32 -0700
Subject: Re: Midkemia Roleplaying: was Re: A globe of Midkemia?
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Wednesday, April 10, 2002, at 07:04 AM, "" <dante@kingcon.com> wrote:

> Speaking of the roleplaying stuff, I keep meaning to ask this to the 
> list: are
> there any places to buy the core gaming system rules, in any condition?
>
> I've written to Steve Abrams at Midkemia Press a couple times via email
> about it, and he didn't know of any places (online or otherwise) where
> someone could buy the core materials anymore. I know they're out of 
> print,
> and that according to Steve, licensing the gaming system is being
> considered, but there's no specific timeframe or plan as yet.
>
> Maybe Ray could offer some insight about this? Our gaming group is
> comprised of avid Feist readers, and the materials that are available 
> at the
> Midkemia Press website for download are great, so we'd love to try this
> system, especially in a world that we very much like :)
>
> If the hope is to license the system and reintroduce/reprint it, I 
> think it'd be
> great to coordinate it with one of the book releases, which might pique
> interest and offer some more promotional opportunities.
>
> I checked the Crydee site the other day to see if John had anything 
> listed,
> just in case he had a set available, but nothing. I haven't seen 
> anything
> else online, either.
>
> Any advice would be appreciated! Thanks :)
>
>

Roll playing gaming is flat as an industry right now.  If the Tome of 
Midkemia is ever published, we may have to do it ourselves.  If we do, 
we will wait until the very best time marketwise to do it.  Maybe if 
there is ever an upturn in FRP gaming, or if there's a big event (such 
as a film or TV deal, more books hitting lists, etc.)

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Subject: question
Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 02:00:46 +0800
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Western Rhythm" <info@westernrhythm.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: question
Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 02:00:46 +0800
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Ray just a simple question.

Would you ever let anyone else write in your place?
as far as to say that if something happened to you (I pray it doesn't) would
you let anyone else write in your universe and finish the books?
sorry for such a morbid question.

Just as a general consensus for any other writers out there, would you let
anyone else finish your books or write in our universe?
I myself would have difficulty with the concept but if i was alive but
unable to complete it, I would probably pick someone maybe a family member
or a talented writer to finish off my series for the fans. I suppose a case
of this can be found with David and Leigh Eddings, although she helped out
with the whole series its kinda the same deal.

my two cents

ta



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From: "" <dante@kingcon.com>
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Subject: Re: Midkemia Roleplaying: was Re: A globe of Midkemia?
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From: "" <dante@kingcon.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Midkemia Roleplaying: was Re: A globe of Midkemia?
Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 14:07:24 -0400
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Thanks for the reply, Ray, as always. I'm a little surprised to hear that sales 
for RPGs are down, what with WoC releasing 3rd Edition AD&D to fairly 
good response, and the new d20 Star Wars system coming out as well 
from WoC. Of course, with WoC buying up stuff left and right, including the 
rights to the next series of Star Wars playing cards (Decipher's license 
ended, and WoC apparently snapped it up from Lucas, which is good 
business), I can understand how it would be flat.

I don't watch sales figures, though, so I'm disappointed to hear that. 

We'll be keeping our fingers crossed for a big event (especially a film 
deal!) or a significant market upswing!


----- Original Message -----
From: Raymond Feist
Sent: 04/10/2002 12:34:32 PM
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Midkemia Roleplaying: was Re: A globe of Midkemia?

> Roll playing gaming is flat as an industry right now.  If the Tome of 
> Midkemia is ever published, we may have to do it ourselves.  If we do, 
> we will wait until the very best time marketwise to do it.  Maybe if 
> there is ever an upturn in FRP gaming, or if there's a big event (such 
> as a film or TV deal, more books hitting lists, etc.)
> 
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
> 
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
> stupidity.
> 



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*** EOOH ***
From: "Henrik Grotle" <henrik@arasoft.no>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: question
Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 20:25:16 +0200
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Western Rhythm wrote:
> Just as a general consensus for any other writers out there, would you let
> anyone else finish your books or write in our universe?
> I myself would have difficulty with the concept but if i was alive but
> unable to complete it, I would probably pick someone maybe a family member
> or a talented writer to finish off my series for the fans. I suppose a case
> of this can be found with David and Leigh Eddings, although she helped out
> with the whole series its kinda the same deal.

IIRC J.R.R. Tolkien's "Simarillion" was completed by his son.

Henrik.



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From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
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Subject: RE: Next
Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 14:31:41 -0400
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From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Next
Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 14:31:41 -0400
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I think the evidence points to Earth existing. I heard the same thing you 
did, probably on this list, but, IIRC, it is not that gunpowder does not 
exist due to the laws of physics so much as the fact that the development of 
magic has made further tecnological development irrelevent. Anything they 
wish to accomplish can be done through magic, thus there is no need to, or 
even the mindset to, think of advancement in terms of technology.

I guess Ray would have to be the authority though, So Ray, what do ya 
say?...

Adieu

Jimmy


>From: Dun Xiahou <xiahoudun13@yahoo.com>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
>Subject: RE: Next
>Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 09:01:45 -0700 (PDT)
>
>I may be completely wrong but, I think I remember
>reading somewhere that in Midkemia gun powder simply
>is impossible to make via a difference in the laws of
>physics.  I also remember hearing that this is
>supposed to be an entirely different cosmos from
>Earth; i.e. Earth does not and will not ever exist in
>the Universe that Midkemia resides.  That being said,
>I guess Profit and the Grey Assassin isn't really
>truly a part of the whole series of boks and stories,
>even though it has the hall of worlds and that guy who
>helped Miranda.... hmmmm... that's a little tougher to
>swallow though.  I guess it's just easier simply to
>forget Profit and the Grey Assassin ever existed.
>
>- Xiahou Dun
>
>--- James Silva <kiehtan@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > If you read the short story Profit and the Grey
> > Assassin, which takes place
> > in the Hall of the Worlds, there is mention of
> > Earth, which, since one of
> > the characters has a wrist watch set to Tokyo time,
> > must be around our
> > current technological level, and there is mention of
> > other worlds at
> > diferent tech levels, some, IIRC, at the laser gun
> > age.
> >
> > adieu
> >
> > Jimmy
> >
> > >From: "James Holden" <james@globalvision.com>
> > >Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > >To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
> > >Subject: RE: Next
> > >Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 14:27:47 +0100
> > >
> > >I hope they don't find it, but with all their
> > resources and "understanding"
> > >they never seem too, not even on other worlds. ;0)
> > >
> > >They seem (from the images in my mind) to be fairly
> > advanced in terms of
> > >building things, using horses and carriages etc but
> > then again this is a
> > >different world, so maybe gunpowder doesn't exist
> > ;0)  Alas, much of my
> > >impressions of the "Kingdom" are based around me
> > thinking in terms of our
> > >world, in say early 18th century of London.  I
> > imagine that Ray tried to
> > >create a viable world which he knew people reading
> > the books could relate
> > >to
> > >and feel an allegiance.
> > >
> > >-----Original Message-----
> > >From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > >[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of
> > Adam Thornton
> > >Sent: 10 April 2002 13:33
> > >To: FEISTFANS-L
> > >Subject: Re: Next
> > >
> > >
> > >some people keep talking about the "5th riftwar" i
> > have no idea in the
> > >slightest what they are on, but i do know that
> > early next year is a new
> > >book
> > >called Talon of the Silver Hawk, its a new series
> > called Conclave of
> > >Shadows, and it takes place after the serpentwar
> > saga (which rocks)
> > >:)
> > >
> > >and regarding the guy who hopes everyone in
> > midkemia finds "technology" and
> > >"gun powder" i for one pray that nothing like that
> > ever happens, as it
> > >would
> > >wreck everything in my honest opinion
> > >
> > >*boom*
> > >gone!
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >----- Original Message -----
> > >From: "James Holden" <james@globalvision.com>
> > >To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> > >Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2002 11:03 PM
> > >Subject: Next
> > >
> > >
> > > > In Rage of a Demon king, the emerald queen is
> > bringing a large number of
> > > > troops, why is such a problem for the kingdom to
> > match this? the riftwar
> > >has
> > > > a pretty vast force with the armies of the east
> > and west.
> > > >
> > > > Is there going to be a new saga after the
> > serpent wars..?  I like
> > >Krondor
> > > > Betrayal but I always kind of feel as if I've
> > been there already and I
> > > > wandered if there are plans to carry on further
> > down the time line..?
> > >And
> > > > when are these people going to find gun powder
> > ;0)
> > > >
> > > > Interesting also that in a few of the books pug,
> > macros and company have
> > > > little trouble going through time & space and
> > yet they haven't found a
> > >world
> > > > with any type of technology!
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>_________________________________________________________________
> > Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device:
> > http://mobile.msn.com
> >
>
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax
>http://taxes.yahoo.com/
>


_________________________________________________________________
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From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
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Western Rhythm wrote:
> 
> Just as a general consensus for any other writers out there, would you let
> anyone else finish your books or write in our universe?

I am certainly interested in hearing what Ray has to say regarding his
own work, but when I heard that Doug Adams's editors were going to
"finish" and print his last book (next month, in fact), which apparently
had many different versions sitting on Adams's computers's hard drive,
I'm wasn't and still am not looking forward to it.

Craig J. Ries



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From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Midkemia Roleplaying: was Re: A globe of Midkemia?
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

dante@kingcon.com wrote:
> 
> Thanks for the reply, Ray, as always. I'm a little surprised to hear that sales
> for RPGs are down, what with WoC releasing 3rd Edition AD&D to fairly
> good response, and the new d20 Star Wars system coming out as well
> from WoC.

Well, everybody's pretty much converting to d20. And it's not because
d20 is that good, it's because nobody else is being able to compete with
it the way they want.

> Of course, with WoC buying up stuff left and right, including the
> rights to the next series of Star Wars playing cards (Decipher's license
> ended, and WoC apparently snapped it up from Lucas, which is good
> business),

WotC has always bought up stuff. They bought licenses for CCG's for
quite awhile and then sat on them. God forbid that M:tG has competition,
eh?

Then again, the RPG market has always been very competitive in terms of
the # of products available.

WotC's thinking right now seems to be that they've got d20 out there,
now they can lay off anybody involved and sell off other properties
(Ravenloft, Dragonlance) to various companies (White Wolf and Sovereign
Press, respectively) to let them do the work while they reap the rewards
of selling the core books :P

Craig J. Ries



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References: <GUAKD5$IRbKj1eo7_XVBZ89h_hGYC9B3bCQb8W0LM7qjEuob@demo.xandmail.com> <001a01c1e03f$c1f4ec60$eae0fea9@6ryth01> <20020410151653.A29523@khan.acc.umu.se> <OE42Dkwy3Cr6ktfXTVR00005533@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re: A globe of Midkemia?
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Adam Thornton wrote:
> 
> what roleplaying game is set after the 5th riftwar ??

The roleplaying game that was released like 15-20 years ago and what the
books really originated from, in terms of the world setting :)

IIRC, the roleplaying stuff takes place in what could be called the
"present" of Midkemia, while Ray is writing the "history": about 500
years in the past, before the 5 Riftwars.

This means, of course, that history is being rewritten along the way :)

Craig J. Ries



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References: <EOEGLFBLIODKEIOHNAANIEMLDDAA.james@globalvision.com> <OE52IXYev6hNo6j3wsG00001c43@hotmail.com>
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Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 12:48:02 -0600
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Next
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Adam Thornton wrote:
> 
> and regarding the guy who hopes everyone in midkemia finds "technology" and
> "gun powder" i for one pray that nothing like that ever happens, as it would
> wreck everything in my honest opinion

Considering that most fantasy out there does not have technology and/or
gunpowder, it might be a nice change of pace.
Without ANY supporting evidence, to say that it would "wreck everything"
is quite unfounded.

I've always wanted to play Shadowrun, and GammaWorld was a fun world to
play :)

Craig J. Ries



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From: "" <dante@kingcon.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Midkemia Roleplaying: was Re: A globe of Midkemia?
Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 15:03:35 -0400
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From: "" <dante@kingcon.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Midkemia Roleplaying: was Re: A globe of Midkemia?
Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 15:03:35 -0400
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Sorry, going to correct myself here. I'd forgotten that Hasbro had bought out 
WoC, so it's not really WoC buying anything and the new 3rd edition d20 
rules are out as D&D, not AD&D... old habits <G>

I also ended up in the List archives, reading some of the old threads about 
this topic. I notice that this discussion has already occurred (rather 
heatedly, too, at times), so my apologies if this is rehash to those of you 
who've been on the list for ages. I withdraw my questions/queries. 

After reading the Midkemia Press web site, and some other sites, I was 
under the impression that Tome of Midkemia had actually be published at 
one time... I got the sense from some of the older threads that this isn't the 
case, that only Cities and some of the other modules were actually printed. 
Is this the case? I've reread the MP site, but I still can't tell if Tome was 
officially published (though nice to see much of the world was put together 
on an old Apple II.. ah, the memories! <G>)


----- Original Message -----
From: dante@kingcon.com
Sent: 04/10/2002 2:07:24 PM
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Midkemia Roleplaying: was Re: A globe of Midkemia?

> Thanks for the reply, Ray, as always. I'm a little surprised to hear that sales 
> for RPGs are down, what with WoC releasing 3rd Edition AD&D to fairly 
> good response, and the new d20 Star Wars system coming out as well 
> from WoC. Of course, with WoC buying up stuff left and right, including the 
> rights to the next series of Star Wars playing cards (Decipher's license 
> ended, and WoC apparently snapped it up from Lucas, which is good 
> business), I can understand how it would be flat.
> 
> I don't watch sales figures, though, so I'm disappointed to hear that. 
> 
> We'll be keeping our fingers crossed for a big event (especially a film 
> deal!) or a significant market upswing!
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Raymond Feist
> Sent: 04/10/2002 12:34:32 PM
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
> Subject: Re: Midkemia Roleplaying: was Re: A globe of Midkemia?
> 
> > Roll playing gaming is flat as an industry right now.  If the Tome of 
> > Midkemia is ever published, we may have to do it ourselves.  If we do, 
> > we will wait until the very best time marketwise to do it.  Maybe if 
> > there is ever an upturn in FRP gaming, or if there's a big event (such 
> > as a film or TV deal, more books hitting lists, etc.)
> > 
> > Best, R.E.F.
> > ----
> > 
> > Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
> > stupidity.
> > 
> 



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Wow, I hadn't heard that... interesting news. I'm sort of a passive Adams 
fan (the audio books with him reading are great), so I have no idea how 
that would be...

----- Original Message -----
From: Craig J. Ries
Sent: 04/10/2002 2:41:03 PM
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: question


> 
> I am certainly interested in hearing what Ray has to say regarding his
> own work, but when I heard that Doug Adams's editors were going to
> "finish" and print his last book (next month, in fact), which apparently
> had many different versions sitting on Adams's computers's hard drive,
> I'm wasn't and still am not looking forward to it.
> 
> Craig J. Ries
> 



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>From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
>
>If you read the short story Profit and the Grey Assassin

I'm not familiar with this story.  Were can it be found?

Andy Holcombe
Andy_wan_Kenobi@hotmail.com

"To err is human, but to really foul things up requires a computer."
     -Farmers' Almanac 1978

"I don't give a damn for a man who can only spell a word one way."
     -Mark Twain

"History will be kind to me, for I intend to write it."
     -Winston Churchill

_________________________________________________________________
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Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 12:39:21 -0700
Subject: Re: question
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On Wednesday, April 10, 2002, at 11:00 AM, Western Rhythm wrote:

> Ray just a simple question.
>
> Would you ever let anyone else write in your place?
> as far as to say that if something happened to you (I pray it doesn't) 
> would
> you let anyone else write in your universe and finish the books?
> sorry for such a morbid question.

Unless I make out a will requesting a specific action, my heirs 
(currently my son and daughter) would have the responsibility of 
controlling my literary estate.  It would be up to them, and at the time 
I won't care.

>
> Just as a general consensus for any other writers out there, would you 
> let
> anyone else finish your books or write in our universe?
> I myself would have difficulty with the concept but if i was alive but
> unable to complete it, I would probably pick someone maybe a family 
> member
> or a talented writer to finish off my series for the fans. I suppose a 
> case
> of this can be found with David and Leigh Eddings, although she helped 
> out
> with the whole series its kinda the same deal.
>
> my two cents
>

Leigh has done the bulk of the writing for the last ten years, with 
David only plotting and giving input as she writes.  His health doesn't 
permit him to sit in front of the word processor for six or seven hours 
a day.  This has been going on for years.  The reason Leigh's name has 
started showing up is that it's accepted she will outlive her husband 
and plans on continuing her own solo career when he's no longer with 
us.  But she cowrote several books prior to that.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 12:36:04 -0700
Subject: Re: Midkemia Roleplaying: was Re: A globe of Midkemia?
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Subject: Re: Midkemia Roleplaying: was Re: A globe of Midkemia?
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On Wednesday, April 10, 2002, at 11:07 AM, "" <dante@kingcon.com> wrote:

> Thanks for the reply, Ray, as always. I'm a little surprised to hear 
> that sales
> for RPGs are down, what with WoC releasing 3rd Edition AD&D to fairly
> good response, and the new d20 Star Wars system coming out as well
> from WoC. Of course, with WoC buying up stuff left and right, including 
> the
> rights to the next series of Star Wars playing cards (Decipher's license
> ended, and WoC apparently snapped it up from Lucas, which is good
> business), I can understand how it would be flat.

Re-read my post carefully.  I didn't say RPG sales were down.  I said 
the market was flat.  Big difference.  And you're dealing with HUGE 
trademark advantages for AD&D and Star Wars, or did that small detail 
elude you?  Bringing a new FRP system into a flat market, with a pretty 
predictable sales environment means you would have to have a big 
BRANDING advantage at the time of release to make an impact.

It's like saying, 'Hey, Coke and Pepsi are selling well.  Why don't you 
bring out Ray Cola?"  Sure, give me a few million to make Ray Cola a 
recognizable brand name, and I'll got out and get 2% of the market.  
Coke and Pepsi will still hold 98%.  AD&D doesn't have to gain share.  
They only have to hang on to existing share to be successful.  Star 
Wars, ditto.
>
> I don't watch sales figures, though, so I'm disappointed to hear that.
>
> We'll be keeping our fingers crossed for a big event (especially a film
> deal!) or a significant market upswing!
>

Don't hold your breath.  It could happen, but don't wait for it.

Best,R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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From: "" <dante@kingcon.com>
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Subject: Re: Midkemia Roleplaying: was Re: A globe of Midkemia?
Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 17:45:15 -0400
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From: "" <dante@kingcon.com>
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Subject: Re: Midkemia Roleplaying: was Re: A globe of Midkemia?
Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 17:45:15 -0400
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----- Original Message -----
From: Raymond Feist
Sent: 04/10/2002 3:36:04 PM
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Midkemia Roleplaying: was Re: A globe of Midkemia?


> Re-read my post carefully.  I didn't say RPG sales were down.  I said 
> the market was flat.  Big difference.  And you're dealing with HUGE 
> trademark advantages for AD&D and Star Wars, or did that small detail 
> elude you?  Bringing a new FRP system into a flat market, with a pretty 
> predictable sales environment means you would have to have a big 
> BRANDING advantage at the time of release to make an impact.
>
> It's like saying, 'Hey, Coke and Pepsi are selling well.  Why don't you 
> bring out Ray Cola?"  Sure, give me a few million to make Ray Cola a 
> recognizable brand name, and I'll got out and get 2% of the market.  
> Coke and Pepsi will still hold 98%.  AD&D doesn't have to gain share.  
> They only have to hang on to existing share to be successful.  Star 
> Wars, ditto.

Pardon my incorrect use of "down" instead of "flat" (which I incidently 
ended the paragraph with). It doesn't "elude" me that there's a branding 
advantage either; since I thought I'd made my post relatively light hearted 
and conversational, I don't see the need to be responded to so 
condescendingly, because it certainly comes across as "oh sweet god, 
another idiot I have to educate." I was just making conversation, for 
heaven's sake, and I even thanked you for replying, which is more courtesy 
than most people online; I didn't ask for a schoolmarm's marketing 
lesson.

And I apologized in a later message for treading over old ground; I did a 
search in the archives and have done all the reading I care to on the FRP 
information. If that's what has feathers up, I apologize profusely again. 

> Don't hold your breath. It could happen, but don't wait for it.

With such positive energy obviously at work, I certainly won't.



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Subject: Re: Honoured Enemy
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From: "Adam Thornton" <sandman_one87@hotmail.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Honoured Enemy
Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 10:05:40 +1200
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if you dont mind me asking, whats King of Foxes ? i mean what series is that
gonna be from?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Raymond Feist" <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 4:32 AM
Subject: Re: Honoured Enemy


>
> On Wednesday, April 10, 2002, at 06:35 AM, Adam Thornton wrote:
>
> > as far as i know the crawler i think is coming out after the 3rd and
> > final
> > book of the legacy of the riftwar series, but before talon of the silver
> > hawk comes out
> > i could be wrong... very wrong tho
> > but thats when i think it is
> >
> >
>
> Wrong.
>
> Right now it's Murder in LaMut as the next book released in the
> UK/Export markets.  Talon of the Silver Hawk in US and UK after that.
> Then Jimmy The Hand in the UK/Export markets.  Then King of Foxes.  Then
> the three books in the 3rd Riftwar series, and I don't know what else
> during that three year run, perhaps the other two Krondor books or
> perhaps more Legends of the Riftwars.
>
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
>
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
> stupidity.
>
>



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From: "Cameron Duncan" <cduncan@atinera.com.au>
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Subject: RE: Murder in Lamut in June
Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 08:12:02 +1000
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From: "Cameron Duncan" <cduncan@atinera.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Murder in Lamut in June
Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 08:12:02 +1000
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Sorry for the late response to this, but the Australian Harper Collins
web site has Murder in Lamut due for release as 29th May....

regards,

Cameron

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Mark Tonkin
> Sent: Monday, April 08, 2002 23:43
> To: FEISTFANS-L
> Subject: Murder in Lamut in June
> 
> 
> I just got the Australian Voyager Online newsletter and it 
> mentions in there
> that Murder In Lamut will be out in June.  Does anybody know a 
> more precise
> date for release here in Australia?  Thanks.
> 
> - MARK
> 
> ========================================
> Dilbert's rules of order #2:
> "I love deadlines.  I especially like the wooshing
> sound they make as they go flying by."
> 
> 



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Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 15:45:40 -0700
Subject: Re: Honoured Enemy
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Wednesday, April 10, 2002, at 03:05 PM, Adam Thornton wrote:

> if you dont mind me asking, whats King of Foxes ? i mean what series is 
> that
> gonna be from?
>

King of Foxes is Book 2 of the Conclave of Shadows.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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From: "Steven McCarthy" <steven@connect.ie>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Next
Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 23:50:05 +0100
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From: "Steven McCarthy" <steven@connect.ie>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Next
Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 23:50:05 +0100
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It's neither IIRC. The Gods have decreed that gunpowder will not work. You
could bring gunpowder to Midkemia from Earth through the Hall and it will
just be useless dust there. Ray said so (using similar words) a good while
ago.


Steve
One of The Collective
http://learn.at/ahh
"Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then
do it." -- Lazarus Long

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of James Silva
> IIRC, it is not that gunpowder does not
> exist due to the laws of physics so much as the fact that the
> development of
> magic has made further tecnological development irrelevent. Anything they
> wish to accomplish can be done through magic, thus there is no
> need to, or
> even the mindset to, think of advancement in terms of technology.
>
> I guess Ray would have to be the authority though, So Ray, what do ya
> say?...
>
> Adieu
>
> Jimmy

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Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 15:51:10 -0700
Subject: Re: Midkemia Roleplaying: was Re: A globe of Midkemia?
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 15:51:10 -0700
Subject: Re: Midkemia Roleplaying: was Re: A globe of Midkemia?
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Wednesday, April 10, 2002, at 02:45 PM, "" <dante@kingcon.com> wrote:

> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Raymond Feist
> Sent: 04/10/2002 3:36:04 PM
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
> Subject: Re: Midkemia Roleplaying: was Re: A globe of Midkemia?
>
>
>> Re-read my post carefully.  I didn't say RPG sales were down.  I said
>> the market was flat.  Big difference.  And you're dealing with HUGE
>> trademark advantages for AD&D and Star Wars, or did that small detail
>> elude you?  Bringing a new FRP system into a flat market, with a pretty
>> predictable sales environment means you would have to have a big
>> BRANDING advantage at the time of release to make an impact.
>>
>> It's like saying, 'Hey, Coke and Pepsi are selling well.  Why don't you
>> bring out Ray Cola?"  Sure, give me a few million to make Ray Cola a
>> recognizable brand name, and I'll got out and get 2% of the market.
>> Coke and Pepsi will still hold 98%.  AD&D doesn't have to gain share.
>> They only have to hang on to existing share to be successful.  Star
>> Wars, ditto.
>
> Pardon my incorrect use of "down" instead of "flat" (which I incidently
> ended the paragraph with). It doesn't "elude" me that there's a branding
> advantage either; since I thought I'd made my post relatively light 
> hearted
> and conversational, I don't see the need to be responded to so
> condescendingly, because it certainly comes across as "oh sweet god,
> another idiot I have to educate." I was just making conversation, for
> heaven's sake, and I even thanked you for replying, which is more 
> courtesy
> than most people online; I didn't ask for a schoolmarm's marketing
> lesson.
>
> And I apologized in a later message for treading over old ground; I 
> did a
> search in the archives and have done all the reading I care to on the 
> FRP
> information. If that's what has feathers up, I apologize profusely 
> again.
>
>> Don't hold your breath. It could happen, but don't wait for it.
>
> With such positive energy obviously at work, I certainly won't.
>
>
>
>

You asked a question.  You got an answer.  You sound like you're 
clueless, I'm going to answer as if you're clueless.  You understand 
branding, market segments, cross-promotional considerations, funding 
problems from Angles to VC's to investors, distribution and licensing 
issues, and the rest of it, great.  But tell me.  Otherwise I'm going to 
give you the simple answers because I'm going to assume you don't have a 
clue.  I don't read minds and I don't know if your 12 or 52.  I don't 
know what you know.

And "making conversation" is what this forum is about, but no one said 
I've got to worry about your opinions on how I choose to rum my business.

The FRP market is not a potential profit center for anyone right now, 
unless you can come to market with something that has the impact of a 
Harry Potter FRP, for one obvious example.  Short of that, it's a way to 
waste time and lose money.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Subject: Re: Next [possible spoilers]
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From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
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s
p
o
i
l
e
r

s
p
a
c
e


.


> In Rage of a Demon king, the emerald queen is bringing a large number of
> troops, why is such a problem for the kingdom to match this? the riftwar has
> a pretty vast force with the armies of the east and west.

Because, the Emerald Queen's armies consisted of nearly every "functional"
male on the continent of Novindus, plus the Saurr, plus heaps of Serpent
Preists.

The Kingdom...
a) didn't have this sort of human resources
b) could not rely on Kesh / Queg for alliances (as demonstrated at the end
of RoaDK, and SoaBC)
c) could not risk moving troops from the northlands, due to the presence
of the hostile moredhel.

> Is there going to be a new saga after the serpent wars..?  I like Krondor
> Betrayal but I always kind of feel as if I've been there already and I
> wandered if there are plans to carry on further down the time line..?

The next book "Talon of the Silverhawk" is set 50 years or so after
Shards.

> And
> when are these people going to find gun powder ;0)

When Ray says.

> Interesting also that in a few of the books pug, macros and company have
> little trouble going through time & space and yet they haven't found a world
> with any type of technology!

Heh. Those worlds do exist:)


Thanks
Darragh
================================================
University of Queensland
Information Technology / Arts (History) student
[Email #1] s356179@student.uq.edu.au
[Email #2] squik@solutionone.com.au
[Web Site] http://hainsworth.ath.cx/~squik/
================================================



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From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
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Subject: RE: Next
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Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 10:20:33 +1000 (GMT+1000)
From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Next
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No, that was a race who flew "flying boats"
Can't recall the name... but it is mentioned in Tomas's memories of
Ashen-Shugar during ADaS


> Didn't the Valheru take down some race that piloted large space craft?
>
> David
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of James Silva
> > Sent: Wednesday, 10 April 2002 10:52 PM
> > To: FEISTFANS-L
> > Subject: RE: Next
> >
> >
> > If you read the short story Profit and the Grey Assassin,
> > which takes place
> > in the Hall of the Worlds, there is mention of Earth, which,
> > since one of
> > the characters has a wrist watch set to Tokyo time, must be
> > around our
> > current technological level, and there is mention of other worlds at
> > diferent tech levels, some, IIRC, at the laser gun age.
> >
> > adieu
> >
> > Jimmy
> >
> > >From: "James Holden" <james@globalvision.com>
> > >Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > >To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
> > >Subject: RE: Next
> > >Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 14:27:47 +0100
> > >
> > >I hope they don't find it, but with all their resources and
> > "understanding"
> > >they never seem too, not even on other worlds. ;0)
> > >
> > >They seem (from the images in my mind) to be fairly advanced
> > in terms of
> > >building things, using horses and carriages etc but then
> > again this is a
> > >different world, so maybe gunpowder doesn't exist ;0)  Alas,
> > much of my
> > >impressions of the "Kingdom" are based around me thinking in
> > terms of our
> > >world, in say early 18th century of London.  I imagine that
> > Ray tried to
> > >create a viable world which he knew people reading the books
> > could relate
> > >to
> > >and feel an allegiance.
> > >
> > >-----Original Message-----
> > >From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > >[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Adam Thornton
> > >Sent: 10 April 2002 13:33
> > >To: FEISTFANS-L
> > >Subject: Re: Next
> > >
> > >
> > >some people keep talking about the "5th riftwar" i have no
> > idea in the
> > >slightest what they are on, but i do know that early next
> > year is a new
> > >book
> > >called Talon of the Silver Hawk, its a new series called Conclave of
> > >Shadows, and it takes place after the serpentwar saga (which rocks)
> > >:)
> > >
> > >and regarding the guy who hopes everyone in midkemia finds
> > "technology" and
> > >"gun powder" i for one pray that nothing like that ever
> > happens, as it
> > >would
> > >wreck everything in my honest opinion
> > >
> > >*boom*
> > >gone!
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >----- Original Message -----
> > >From: "James Holden" <james@globalvision.com>
> > >To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> > >Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2002 11:03 PM
> > >Subject: Next
> > >
> > >
> > > > In Rage of a Demon king, the emerald queen is bringing a
> > large number of
> > > > troops, why is such a problem for the kingdom to match
> > this? the riftwar
> > >has
> > > > a pretty vast force with the armies of the east and west.
> > > >
> > > > Is there going to be a new saga after the serpent wars..?  I like
> > >Krondor
> > > > Betrayal but I always kind of feel as if I've been there
> > already and I
> > > > wandered if there are plans to carry on further down the
> > time line..?
> > >And
> > > > when are these people going to find gun powder ;0)
> > > >
> > > > Interesting also that in a few of the books pug, macros
> > and company have
> > > > little trouble going through time & space and yet they
> > haven't found a
> > >world
> > > > with any type of technology!
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
> >
>
>

Thanks
Darragh
================================================
University of Queensland
Information Technology / Arts (History) student
[Email #1] s356179@student.uq.edu.au
[Email #2] squik@solutionone.com.au
[Web Site] http://hainsworth.ath.cx/~squik/
================================================



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From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
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From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Next
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Couldn';t it be that gun powder has the potential to exist.. .just no one
has discovered it yet?

:)


> I think the evidence points to Earth existing. I heard the same thing you
> did, probably on this list, but, IIRC, it is not that gunpowder does not
> exist due to the laws of physics so much as the fact that the development of
> magic has made further tecnological development irrelevent. Anything they
> wish to accomplish can be done through magic, thus there is no need to, or
> even the mindset to, think of advancement in terms of technology.
>
> I guess Ray would have to be the authority though, So Ray, what do ya
> say?...
>
> Adieu
>
> Jimmy
>
>
> >From: Dun Xiahou <xiahoudun13@yahoo.com>
> >Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> >To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
> >Subject: RE: Next
> >Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 09:01:45 -0700 (PDT)
> >
> >I may be completely wrong but, I think I remember
> >reading somewhere that in Midkemia gun powder simply
> >is impossible to make via a difference in the laws of
> >physics.  I also remember hearing that this is
> >supposed to be an entirely different cosmos from
> >Earth; i.e. Earth does not and will not ever exist in
> >the Universe that Midkemia resides.  That being said,
> >I guess Profit and the Grey Assassin isn't really
> >truly a part of the whole series of boks and stories,
> >even though it has the hall of worlds and that guy who
> >helped Miranda.... hmmmm... that's a little tougher to
> >swallow though.  I guess it's just easier simply to
> >forget Profit and the Grey Assassin ever existed.
> >
> >- Xiahou Dun
> >
> >--- James Silva <kiehtan@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > If you read the short story Profit and the Grey
> > > Assassin, which takes place
> > > in the Hall of the Worlds, there is mention of
> > > Earth, which, since one of
> > > the characters has a wrist watch set to Tokyo time,
> > > must be around our
> > > current technological level, and there is mention of
> > > other worlds at
> > > diferent tech levels, some, IIRC, at the laser gun
> > > age.
> > >
> > > adieu
> > >
> > > Jimmy
> > >
> > > >From: "James Holden" <james@globalvision.com>
> > > >Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > > >To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
> > > >Subject: RE: Next
> > > >Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 14:27:47 +0100
> > > >
> > > >I hope they don't find it, but with all their
> > > resources and "understanding"
> > > >they never seem too, not even on other worlds. ;0)
> > > >
> > > >They seem (from the images in my mind) to be fairly
> > > advanced in terms of
> > > >building things, using horses and carriages etc but
> > > then again this is a
> > > >different world, so maybe gunpowder doesn't exist
> > > ;0)  Alas, much of my
> > > >impressions of the "Kingdom" are based around me
> > > thinking in terms of our
> > > >world, in say early 18th century of London.  I
> > > imagine that Ray tried to
> > > >create a viable world which he knew people reading
> > > the books could relate
> > > >to
> > > >and feel an allegiance.
> > > >
> > > >-----Original Message-----
> > > >From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > > >[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of
> > > Adam Thornton
> > > >Sent: 10 April 2002 13:33
> > > >To: FEISTFANS-L
> > > >Subject: Re: Next
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >some people keep talking about the "5th riftwar" i
> > > have no idea in the
> > > >slightest what they are on, but i do know that
> > > early next year is a new
> > > >book
> > > >called Talon of the Silver Hawk, its a new series
> > > called Conclave of
> > > >Shadows, and it takes place after the serpentwar
> > > saga (which rocks)
> > > >:)
> > > >
> > > >and regarding the guy who hopes everyone in
> > > midkemia finds "technology" and
> > > >"gun powder" i for one pray that nothing like that
> > > ever happens, as it
> > > >would
> > > >wreck everything in my honest opinion
> > > >
> > > >*boom*
> > > >gone!
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >----- Original Message -----
> > > >From: "James Holden" <james@globalvision.com>
> > > >To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> > > >Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2002 11:03 PM
> > > >Subject: Next
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > In Rage of a Demon king, the emerald queen is
> > > bringing a large number of
> > > > > troops, why is such a problem for the kingdom to
> > > match this? the riftwar
> > > >has
> > > > > a pretty vast force with the armies of the east
> > > and west.
> > > > >
> > > > > Is there going to be a new saga after the
> > > serpent wars..?  I like
> > > >Krondor
> > > > > Betrayal but I always kind of feel as if I've
> > > been there already and I
> > > > > wandered if there are plans to carry on further
> > > down the time line..?
> > > >And
> > > > > when are these people going to find gun powder
> > > ;0)
> > > > >
> > > > > Interesting also that in a few of the books pug,
> > > macros and company have
> > > > > little trouble going through time & space and
> > > yet they haven't found a
> > > >world
> > > > > with any type of technology!
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >_________________________________________________________________
> > > Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device:
> > > http://mobile.msn.com
> > >
> >
> >
> >__________________________________________________
> >Do You Yahoo!?
> >Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax
> >http://taxes.yahoo.com/
> >
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com
>
>

Thanks
Darragh
================================================
University of Queensland
Information Technology / Arts (History) student
[Email #1] s356179@student.uq.edu.au
[Email #2] squik@solutionone.com.au
[Web Site] http://hainsworth.ath.cx/~squik/
================================================



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Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 10:24:54 +1000 (GMT+1000)
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From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Next
In-Reply-To: <F44G1zXs0oByC4wgKuu00001cd5@hotmail.com>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 10:24:54 +1000 (GMT+1000)
From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Next
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

> >If you read the short story Profit and the Grey Assassin
> I'm not familiar with this story.  Were can it be found?
> Andy Holcombe
> Andy_wan_Kenobi@hotmail.com

John Bunting has several copies for sale on www.crydee.com

Profit and the Grey Assassin is a short story written around the time
Magician was written. It centres around the Hall of the Worlds.

Published in  Fantasy book #4 circa 1982


Thanks
Darragh
================================================
University of Queensland
Information Technology / Arts (History) student
[Email #1] s356179@student.uq.edu.au
[Email #2] squik@solutionone.com.au
[Web Site] http://hainsworth.ath.cx/~squik/
================================================



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Subject: Re: Next
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*** EOOH ***
From: RBlackley@aol.com
Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 21:33:36 EDT
Subject: Re: Next
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

You guys realise that while it is Ray's fiction, it is still fiction, Eric 
von Darkmoor could invent CDRWs if Ray wanted him too.  It isn't that 
gunpowder could never exist simply that Ray feels that if at this time 
gunpowder was invented then it would really mess up the story.  Thus, they 
haven't invented gun powder.
Richard

In a message dated 4/10/2002 8:37:54 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
s356179@student.uq.edu.au writes:


> Couldn';t it be that gun powder has the potential to exist.. .just no one
> has discovered it yet?
> 
> :)
> 


-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
"Wit is cultured insolence"
                         Aristotle
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References: <6f43c615d5584492ac8b965fb52b4edf.dante@kingcon.com>
Subject: Re: Midkemia Roleplaying: was Re: A globe of Midkemia?
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From: "rob tavares" <vze26fdh@verizon.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Midkemia Roleplaying: was Re: A globe of Midkemia?
Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 22:01:33 -0700
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Dante,

I think perhaps you should look at your own thought pattern here. You
say you wrote light-heartedly and were responded to in ill-form? I would
say the reverse was true instead. Ray responded as he usually does, and
you took it the wrong way.

Aka.
Chill



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Subject: Re: Next
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Western Rhythm" <info@westernrhythm.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Next
Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 10:19:04 +0800
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

If you've got Magic in the universe why would you need technology?
It defies the rule of the worlds order and the 'stuff'.
And again that mineral is not found in his universe or probably does
something different then explode heh :) see its possible to make crap up.
*g*

Point is its not really an issue, because of magic.

----- Original Message -----
>From: RBlackley@aol.com
>To: FEISTFANS-L
>Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 9:33 AM
>Subject: Re: Next
>
>
>You guys realise that while it is Ray's fiction, it is still fiction, Eric
>von Darkmoor could invent CDRWs if Ray wanted him too.  It isn't that
>gunpowder could never exist simply that Ray feels that if at this time
>gunpowder was invented then it would really mess up the story.  Thus, they
>haven't invented gun powder.
>Richard
>
>In a message dated 4/10/2002 8:37:54 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
>s356179@student.uq.edu.au writes:
>
>
>
>Couldn';t it be that gun powder has the potential to exist.. .just no one
>has discovered it yet?
>
>:)
>




-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
"Wit is cultured insolence"
                         Aristotle
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-



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Subject: Re: Midkemia Roleplaying: was Re: A globe of Midkemia?
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Dennis Groome" <nallix@cox.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Midkemia Roleplaying: was Re: A globe of Midkemia?
Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 21:14:32 -0500
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu



-Dennis H. Groome V
ICQ: 11430261 AIM/Yahoo: AmoNympham
Microsoft Messenger: marcus_giovani@hotmail.com


----- Original Message -----
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2002 1:43 PM
Subject: Re: Midkemia Roleplaying: was Re: A globe of Midkemia?


> dante@kingcon.com wrote:
> >
> > Thanks for the reply, Ray, as always. I'm a little surprised to hear that sales
> > for RPGs are down, what with WoC releasing 3rd Edition AD&D to fairly
> > good response, and the new d20 Star Wars system coming out as well
> > from WoC.
>
> Well, everybody's pretty much converting to d20. And it's not because
> d20 is that good, it's because nobody else is being able to compete with
> it the way they want.

it also has to do with a) nostalgia factor, most people started with D&D or
are at least familiar with the rules abd b) WotC has an "open source" policy
on the D20 systen, having very little, if any, liscensing fees to use the
mechanics for your game.  Of course, every D20 game that comes out is a big
add for WotC.

>
> > Of course, with WoC buying up stuff left and right, including the
> > rights to the next series of Star Wars playing cards (Decipher's license
> > ended, and WoC apparently snapped it up from Lucas, which is good
> > business),
>
> WotC has always bought up stuff. They bought licenses for CCG's for
> quite awhile and then sat on them. God forbid that M:tG has competition,
> eh?
>
> Then again, the RPG market has always been very competitive in terms of
> the # of products available.
>
> WotC's thinking right now seems to be that they've got d20 out there,
> now they can lay off anybody involved and sell off other properties
> (Ravenloft, Dragonlance) to various companies (White Wolf and Sovereign
> Press, respectively) to let them do the work while they reap the rewards
> of selling the core books :P

actually, Ravenloft and Dragonlance weren't selling, which is a shame since
Ravenloft is my favorite D&D setting.  the RPG market is tough, and
companies that do only books are suffering unless they're the big dog (or
Wolf) in the pen.  that's why companies like Steve Jackson Games (which I
happen to be a rep for, and who makes GURPS) make RPGs as well as various
card games, board games, miniature games, etc.  I for one would love to see
a GURPS: Midkemia.



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Western Rhythm wrote:
> 
> If you've got Magic in the universe why would you need technology?

You guys really aren't making any logical statements here.

Aside from "it ruins the world" and "they've got magic" you're not
giving any real reasons why technology does not or should not exist on
Midkemia or any other world that has magic.

As I said before, Shadowrun works quite wonderfully with both technology
and magic, with one enhancing, or harming in some cases, the other.

Craig J. Ries



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Subject: Re: Midkemia Roleplaying: was Re: A globe of Midkemia?
References: <5c6a339c4f61404d93ce2724bff84f73.dante@kingcon.com> <3CB487DA.7903FEB9@yifan.net> <00e201c1e100$f35220e0$0200a8c0@D1N09511>
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From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Midkemia Roleplaying: was Re: A globe of Midkemia?
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Dennis Groome wrote:
> 
> actually, Ravenloft and Dragonlance weren't selling, which is a shame since
> Ravenloft is my favorite D&D setting.

DL was, as a D&D setting, dead when TSR was still around. Ravenloft has
pretty much been in the same boat save that they've had the Kargantane
for quite awhile.

It's not the fact that they have been "dead" game worlds for awhile,
it's that it's not WotC doing the work, it's another company, while WotC
benefits from the fact that nobody can write up their own "core books"
if they wanna use 3E... err, oops, d20. Same bloody thing.

Craig J. Ries



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Subject: Re: Midkemia Roleplaying: was Re: A globe of Midkemia?
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out of curiosty, ive heard about this rpg game, and how it is set after the
5th riftwar, i would love to know the name of it, because i would like to
search for it on the net and find info on it. i know nothing about it in the
slightest way, so i do not know if its out or if its just something some
made up. any info would be greatly appreciated.



----- Original Message -----
From: "Raymond Feist" <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 10:51 AM
Subject: Re: Midkemia Roleplaying: was Re: A globe of Midkemia?


>
> On Wednesday, April 10, 2002, at 02:45 PM, "" <dante@kingcon.com> wrote:
>
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Raymond Feist
> > Sent: 04/10/2002 3:36:04 PM
> > To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
> > Subject: Re: Midkemia Roleplaying: was Re: A globe of Midkemia?
> >
> >
> >> Re-read my post carefully.  I didn't say RPG sales were down.  I said
> >> the market was flat.  Big difference.  And you're dealing with HUGE
> >> trademark advantages for AD&D and Star Wars, or did that small detail
> >> elude you?  Bringing a new FRP system into a flat market, with a pretty
> >> predictable sales environment means you would have to have a big
> >> BRANDING advantage at the time of release to make an impact.
> >>
> >> It's like saying, 'Hey, Coke and Pepsi are selling well.  Why don't you
> >> bring out Ray Cola?"  Sure, give me a few million to make Ray Cola a
> >> recognizable brand name, and I'll got out and get 2% of the market.
> >> Coke and Pepsi will still hold 98%.  AD&D doesn't have to gain share.
> >> They only have to hang on to existing share to be successful.  Star
> >> Wars, ditto.
> >
> > Pardon my incorrect use of "down" instead of "flat" (which I incidently
> > ended the paragraph with). It doesn't "elude" me that there's a branding
> > advantage either; since I thought I'd made my post relatively light
> > hearted
> > and conversational, I don't see the need to be responded to so
> > condescendingly, because it certainly comes across as "oh sweet god,
> > another idiot I have to educate." I was just making conversation, for
> > heaven's sake, and I even thanked you for replying, which is more
> > courtesy
> > than most people online; I didn't ask for a schoolmarm's marketing
> > lesson.
> >
> > And I apologized in a later message for treading over old ground; I
> > did a
> > search in the archives and have done all the reading I care to on the
> > FRP
> > information. If that's what has feathers up, I apologize profusely
> > again.
> >
> >> Don't hold your breath. It could happen, but don't wait for it.
> >
> > With such positive energy obviously at work, I certainly won't.
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> You asked a question.  You got an answer.  You sound like you're
> clueless, I'm going to answer as if you're clueless.  You understand
> branding, market segments, cross-promotional considerations, funding
> problems from Angles to VC's to investors, distribution and licensing
> issues, and the rest of it, great.  But tell me.  Otherwise I'm going to
> give you the simple answers because I'm going to assume you don't have a
> clue.  I don't read minds and I don't know if your 12 or 52.  I don't
> know what you know.
>
> And "making conversation" is what this forum is about, but no one said
> I've got to worry about your opinions on how I choose to rum my business.
>
> The FRP market is not a potential profit center for anyone right now,
> unless you can come to market with something that has the impact of a
> Harry Potter FRP, for one obvious example.  Short of that, it's a way to
> waste time and lose money.
>
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
>
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
> stupidity.
>
>



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From: "Andy Holcombe" <andy_wan_kenobi@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Magic and Technology
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>Western Rhythm wrote:
> >
> > If you've got Magic in the universe why would you need technology?

Not everyone is able to use magic, nor are wizards the most dependable of 
creatures.  It just stands to reason that those without magic would seek an 
equalizer and those with access to magic would want alternatives when magic 
either doesn't work or isn't available.

On the gunpowder issue, maybe I'm mistaken, but I seem to remember various 
people using explosives at various times.  If explosives were used, what are 
they if not gunpowder?

Andy Holcombe
Andy_wan_Kenobi@hotmail.com

"To err is human, but to really foul things up requires a computer."
     -Farmers' Almanac 1978

"I don't give a damn for a man who can only spell a word one way."
     -Mark Twain

"History will be kind to me, for I intend to write it."
     -Winston Churchill

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Appologies if this is the scond time.

>Western Rhythm wrote:
> >
> > If you've got Magic in the universe why would you need technology?

Not everyone is able to use magic, nor are wizards the most dependable of 
creatures.  It just stands to reason that those without magic would seek an 
equalizer and those with access to magic would want alternatives when magic 
either doesn't work or isn't available.

On the gunpowder issue, maybe I'm mistaken, but I seem to remember various 
people using explosives at various times.  If explosives were used, what are 
they if not gunpowder?

Andy Holcombe
Andy_wan_Kenobi@hotmail.com

"To err is human, but to really foul things up requires a computer."
     -Farmers' Almanac 1978

"I don't give a damn for a man who can only spell a word one way."
     -Mark Twain

"History will be kind to me, for I intend to write it."
     -Winston Churchill

Andy Holcombe
Andy_wan_Kenobi@hotmail.com

"To err is human, but to really foul things up requires a computer."
     -Farmers' Almanac 1978

"I don't give a damn for a man who can only spell a word one way."
     -Mark Twain

"History will be kind to me, for I intend to write it."
     -Winston Churchill

_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com



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Subject: Re: Magic and Technology
Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 14:40:57 +0800
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From: "Western Rhythm" <info@westernrhythm.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Magic and Technology
Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 14:40:57 +0800
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But maybe Magic is their equivalent to technology. Ray has already
introduced various magic users and types of magic, ie the guilds etc and
they to a degree make up for the use of magic. So why introduce technology
when magic could be a technology all on its on. And can be utililized by
other 'people' through lucks and charms and scrolls and rings etc...to do
things that technology does for us. An example of other people manipulating
the 'stuff' is reiki thing that nakor did right?
Oh and another thing, weren't the rifts a form of construct as well anyway?
Technology is basically the use of energy or power to make practical things
work, so isn't magic power and energy?
interesting notion....

weren't the explosions firebombs? and firespells?

Its far safer to leave technology out of the equation with rays universe,
since magic makes up for it. Would make an interesting book for one of the
rift wars though, if an advanced culture paced itself against magic from pug
and his conclave. Lasers and firespells very cool.
However again it might ruin it for some people, cause I love rays books
because it is semi-medieval.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Andy Holcombe" <andy_wan_kenobi@hotmail.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 11:31 AM
Subject: Magic and Technology


> Appologies if this is the scond time.
>
> >Western Rhythm wrote:
> > >
> > > If you've got Magic in the universe why would you need technology?
>
> Not everyone is able to use magic, nor are wizards the most dependable of
> creatures.  It just stands to reason that those without magic would seek an
> equalizer and those with access to magic would want alternatives when magic
> either doesn't work or isn't available.
>
> On the gunpowder issue, maybe I'm mistaken, but I seem to remember various
> people using explosives at various times.  If explosives were used, what are
> they if not gunpowder?
>
> Andy Holcombe
> Andy_wan_Kenobi@hotmail.com
>
> "To err is human, but to really foul things up requires a computer."
>      -Farmers' Almanac 1978
>
> "I don't give a damn for a man who can only spell a word one way."
>      -Mark Twain
>
> "History will be kind to me, for I intend to write it."
>      -Winston Churchill
>
> Andy Holcombe
> Andy_wan_Kenobi@hotmail.com
>
> "To err is human, but to really foul things up requires a computer."
>      -Farmers' Almanac 1978
>
> "I don't give a damn for a man who can only spell a word one way."
>      -Mark Twain
>
> "History will be kind to me, for I intend to write it."
>      -Winston Churchill
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com



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Subject: Dash and Jimmy
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 08:11:28 +0100
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From: richard.smith@pharma.novartis.com
Subject: Dash and Jimmy
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 08:11:28 +0100
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Slight Spoiler........... Nothing Major






Ray after reading ROaMP again.  I was wondering about the introduction of
Dash and Jimmy.

You go into detail in a paragraph about their exploits while younger (Being
thrown out the palace running a brothel Etc..)

Are there any plans down the line to do any books on this like Legends of
the Riftwar?

IM not asking you to write one (Before anyone thinks IM trying to tell you
what to write), Just enquiring if it is something
you would like to do later on or have plans to.

Is there any other books you personally would like to write but cant due to
time publisher Etc....



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From: Alan Kellogg <mythusmage@cts.com>
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Any sufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology. 
(Bunch a folks)

Alan



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The converse being also true:

Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

rip

At 08:14 AM 4/11/02, Alan Kellogg wrote:
>Any sufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology. (Bunch a folks)
>
>Alan



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From: "Some DuDe" <somedude1_2000@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Very Own Midkemia
Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 17:54:07 +1000
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Ray,
I have extensively read over all material realating to the whole situation 
about us not making our own things based on midkemia
this being anything from our own stories to video games
but i was wondering what would you think of a competition
it could be to write our own midkemian stories or games or whatever
it would be in a controled environment
i really hate this rule we have where we may not make our own stores or n e 
thing but i respect it and you but i thought this alternative up and was 
wondering what your thoughts on it are

_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com



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From: Grandad Rufus <rufo@bigwig.net>
Subject: Re: Next
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 08:29:21 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Grandad Rufus <rufo@bigwig.net>
Subject: Re: Next
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In article <113.fb5d4ce.29e641f0@aol.com>, RBlackley@aol.com writes
>    You guys realise that while it is Ray's fiction, it is still 
>    fiction, Eric von Darkmoor could invent CDRWs if Ray wanted him 
>    too.  It isn't that gunpowder could never exist simply that Ray 
>    feels that if at this time gunpowder was invented then it would 
>    really mess up the story.  Thus, they haven't invented gun powder.
>    Richard
>

Who needs Gunpowder when you've got Quegan Fire Oil ?

And how long before some clever bugger develops a pressurised tank
delivery lance for it ?


-- 
*******
Grandad Rufus.

It's not that I have a dirty mind, you understand.
It's just that so many of my thoughts leave muddy little footprints...



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From: "PHILIPPE NGUYEN PHUNG" <phrill@hotmail.com>
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From: "PHILIPPE NGUYEN PHUNG" <phrill@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re: Next
Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 10:20:04 +0200
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U are asking why the kingdom can't match the force of The Emerald Queen.I'll 
tell u why.The emerald Queen had  at least half a million soldiers while the 
Kingdom at most only could get 70 000 soldiers or something that's why.As 
for the riftwar.Because of political reasons the Tsurani didn't send all 
their forces but only a part of it(about  10 000-15 000 soldiers).That's the 
reason.the Emerald Queens army was by far the biggest army the Kingdom ever 
had faced.

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Subject: RE: Next
Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 10:21:48 +0200
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I have heard alot about the stories Profit and the Grey Assassin.But have 
never seen them before.Where can I get hold of them.

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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Holden" <james@globalvision.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Magic and Technology
Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 09:35:37 +0100
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Naptha (Quegan Fire Oil etc), jimmy fired a bridge that way, armengar was
blownup with it etc.

-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Andy Holcombe
>Sent: 11 April 2002 04:23
>To: FEISTFANS-L
>Subject: Magic and Technology
>
>
>>Western Rhythm wrote:
>> >
>> > If you've got Magic in the universe why would you need technology?
>
>Not everyone is able to use magic, nor are wizards the most dependable of
>creatures.  It just stands to reason that those without magic would seek an
>equalizer and those with access to magic would want alternatives when magic
>either doesn't work or isn't available.
>
>On the gunpowder issue, maybe I'm mistaken, but I seem to remember various
>people using explosives at various times.  If explosives were used, what are
>they if not gunpowder?
>
>Andy Holcombe
>Andy_wan_Kenobi@hotmail.com
>
>"To err is human, but to really foul things up requires a computer."
>     -Farmers' Almanac 1978
>
>"I don't give a damn for a man who can only spell a word one way."
>     -Mark Twain
>
>"History will be kind to me, for I intend to write it."
>     -Winston Churchill
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
>http://www.hotmail.com
>


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From: "William Marnoch" <william@wmarnoch.freeserve.co.uk>
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From: "William Marnoch" <william@wmarnoch.freeserve.co.uk>
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On 11 Apr 2002 at 10:19, Western Rhythm wrote:

> If you've got Magic in the universe why would you need technology?

I think all the people in Midkemia who aren't magicians (that's most
of them) would quite like the ability to do things. Also a lot of the
people in Midkemia are quite uncomfortable with the idea of magic,
many magicians were persecuted by commoners.  I think those people
with some kind of moral objection to magic would much prefer a
technological solution.
Of course, since gunpowder hasn't been discovered in Midkemia it
doesn't make any real difference whether it would be useful or not.

-- 
William Marnoch
ICQ:77848483
william@wmarnoch.freeserve.co.uk



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Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 07:41:32 -0700
Subject: Re: Dash and Jimmy
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 07:41:32 -0700
Subject: Re: Dash and Jimmy
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
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On Thursday, April 11, 2002, at 12:11 AM, 
richard.smith@pharma.novartis.com wrote:

>
> Slight Spoiler........... Nothing Major
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Ray after reading ROaMP again.  I was wondering about the introduction 
> of
> Dash and Jimmy.
>
> You go into detail in a paragraph about their exploits while younger 
> (Being
> thrown out the palace running a brothel Etc..)
>
> Are there any plans down the line to do any books on this like Legends 
> of
> the Riftwar?
>
> IM not asking you to write one (Before anyone thinks IM trying to tell 
> you
> what to write), Just enquiring if it is something
> you would like to do later on or have plans to.
>
> Is there any other books you personally would like to write but cant 
> due to
> time publisher Etc....
>
>
>
>

Nope.

Just to make one thing clear on the "not telling you what to write" 
bit.  I got that without you having to say it, mostly because you didn't 
start off with "why don't you write a book on Jimmy and Dash?"

The thing about writing good characters is if you do it right, the 
reader wants more.  The characters appear to have dimension, have "more" 
story to tell, even if I don't have anything else to say about them.  I 
once had someone write me to ask if I was going to do an entire book on 
Admiral Vykor.  That was a nice complement, because obviously a 
relatively minor character hit a nerve with that reader.

But I have no more to write about Jimmy and Dash unless it's as minor, 
supporting characters in the current books,and I don't even know if I'm 
going to use them.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 07:44:49 -0700
Subject: Re: Very Own Midkemia
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Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 07:44:49 -0700
Subject: Re: Very Own Midkemia
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On Thursday, April 11, 2002, at 12:54 AM, Some DuDe wrote:

> Ray,
> I have extensively read over all material realating to the whole 
> situation about us not making our own things based on midkemia
> this being anything from our own stories to video games
> but i was wondering what would you think of a competition
> it could be to write our own midkemian stories or games or whatever
> it would be in a controled environment
> i really hate this rule we have where we may not make our own stores or 
> n e thing but i respect it and you but i thought this alternative up 
> and was wondering what your thoughts on it are
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com
>
>
>
>
I've done contests before, but not for a while.

I might do another again, one of these days.

But as far as you "hate this rule," consider that if I can't protect my 
copyright, I have no profit motive, and then I go find something else to 
do instead of writing.

If you have a writing jones, my suggestion is to create your own world.  
It's really a lot of fun and if you do it well enough, someone might pay 
you to read about it.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Subject: Re: Magic and Technology
Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 12:14:50 -0400
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From: "David Rouse" <viperphi@ezaccess.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Magic and Technology
Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 12:14:50 -0400
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The explosives were Naptha or a distillation of Naptha. It is what Guy du
Bastyra and Amos had brewing under Armengar.
I believe it is also referred to as Quegan fire oil.

Jimmy the Hand threw a distillation of Naptha on a bridge when his company
were being pursued by Black Slayers.

-David


----- Original Message -----
From: "Andy Holcombe" <andy_wan_kenobi@hotmail.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2002 11:31 PM
Subject: Magic and Technology


> Appologies if this is the scond time.
>
> >Western Rhythm wrote:
> > >
> > > If you've got Magic in the universe why would you need technology?
>
> Not everyone is able to use magic, nor are wizards the most dependable of
> creatures.  It just stands to reason that those without magic would seek an
> equalizer and those with access to magic would want alternatives when magic
> either doesn't work or isn't available.
>
> On the gunpowder issue, maybe I'm mistaken, but I seem to remember various
> people using explosives at various times.  If explosives were used, what are
> they if not gunpowder?
>
> Andy Holcombe
> Andy_wan_Kenobi@hotmail.com
>
> "To err is human, but to really foul things up requires a computer."
>      -Farmers' Almanac 1978
>
> "I don't give a damn for a man who can only spell a word one way."
>      -Mark Twain
>
> "History will be kind to me, for I intend to write it."
>      -Winston Churchill
>
> Andy Holcombe
> Andy_wan_Kenobi@hotmail.com
>
> "To err is human, but to really foul things up requires a computer."
>      -Farmers' Almanac 1978
>
> "I don't give a damn for a man who can only spell a word one way."
>      -Mark Twain
>
> "History will be kind to me, for I intend to write it."
>      -Winston Churchill
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
>
> ---
> [This E-mail scanned for viruses by IAS, an Archiventure Company]
>
>
>


---
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Subject: RE: Magic and Technology - (Quotes)
Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2001 23:38:02 +0100
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From: "MChaloner" <markchaloner@btinternet.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Magic and Technology - (Quotes)
Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2001 23:38:02 +0100
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

>Appologies if this is the scond time.
>
>>Western Rhythm wrote:
>> >
>> > If you've got Magic in the universe why would you need technology?
>
>Not everyone is able to use magic, nor are wizards the most dependable
>of creatures.  It just stands to reason that those without magic would
>seek an equalizer and those with access to magic would want
>alternatives when magic either doesn't work or isn't available.
>
>On the gunpowder issue, maybe I'm mistaken, but I seem to remember
>various people using explosives at various times.  If explosives were
>used, what are they if not gunpowder?
>
>Andy Holcombe
>Andy_wan_Kenobi@hotmail.com
>
>"To err is human, but to really foul things up requires a computer."
>     -Farmers' Almanac 1978
>
>"I don't give a damn for a man who can only spell a word one way."
>     -Mark Twain
>
>"History will be kind to me, for I intend to write it."
>     -Winston Churchill
>
>Andy Holcombe
>Andy_wan_Kenobi@hotmail.com
>
>"To err is human, but to really foul things up requires a computer."
>     -Farmers' Almanac 1978
>
>"I don't give a damn for a man who can only spell a word one way."
>     -Mark Twain
>
>"History will be kind to me, for I intend to write it."
>     -Winston Churchill
>
>
>

Any chance you can cut down on your quotes? Your quotes are longer than
your message.
Can't you just pick a different one each time?

Mark ;-)



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>From: "David Rouse" <viperphi@ezaccess.net>

>I believe it is also referred to as Quegan fire oil.
>
I didn't recall Quegan fire oil being so explosive.  But it has been a few 
years snce I read those books.

Andy Holcombe
Andy_wan_Kenobi@hotmail.com

"To err is human, but to really foul things up requires a computer."
     -Farmers' Almanac 1978

"I don't give a damn for a man who can only spell a word one way."
     -Mark Twain

"History will be kind to me, for I intend to write it."
     -Winston Churchill

_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com



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From: Sean Fister <sean@hope.kih.net>
Subject: RE: Magic and Technology - (Quotes)
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Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 14:54:14 -0400
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Sean Fister <sean@hope.kih.net>
Subject: RE: Magic and Technology - (Quotes)
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

At 06:38 PM 10/8/01, you wrote:
>Appologies if this is the scond time.
>
> >Western Rhythm wrote:
> > >
> > > If you've got Magic in the universe why would you need technology?
>
>Not everyone is able to use magic, nor are wizards the most dependable
>of
>creatures.  It just stands to reason that those without magic would seek
>an
>equalizer and those with access to magic would want alternatives when
>magic
>either doesn't work or isn't available.
>
>On the gunpowder issue, maybe I'm mistaken, but I seem to remember
>various
>people using explosives at various times.  If explosives were used, what
>are
>they if not gunpowder?


Actually, IIRC, Ray has said magic is more common than you think.  Its just 
very specialized in some instances, like the Wrecker's Guild.  Not 
everybody who uses magic is a true magician in the Kulgan or Pug sense of 
things..  As for gunpowder, I believe Ray has said in the past that the 
Gods of Midkemia have basically outlawed gunpowder.  I guess they prevent 
it from working.  If I misstated anything here, I'm sure somebody will 
correct me.  I'm working from a very vague recollection.

Sean Fister



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From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
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Subject: RE: Next
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From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Next
Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 15:42:11 -0400
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Go see John at www.Crydee.com, he still has Profit and the Grey Assassin for 
sale, I think.

Adieu

Jimmy

>From: "PHILIPPE NGUYEN PHUNG" <phrill@hotmail.com>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
>Subject: RE: Next
>Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 10:21:48 +0200
>
>I have heard alot about the stories Profit and the Grey Assassin.But have
>never seen them before.Where can I get hold of them.
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.
>


_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com



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From: Simon Rönnberg <rhuagh@acc.umu.se>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Next
Message-ID: <20020411224209.A29524@khan.acc.umu.se>
References: <113.fb5d4ce.29e641f0@aol.com> <000d01c1e0ff$42d8eec0$ad519aca@vaio> <3CB4F438.79845234@yifan.net>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 22:42:09 +0200
From: Simon Rönnberg <rhuagh@acc.umu.se>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Next
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> > If you've got Magic in the universe why would you need technology?
> 
> You guys really aren't making any logical statements here.
> 
> Aside from "it ruins the world" and "they've got magic" you're not
> giving any real reasons why technology does not or should not exist on
> Midkemia or any other world that has magic.
> 
> As I said before, Shadowrun works quite wonderfully with both technology
> and magic, with one enhancing, or harming in some cases, the other.

The reason why "technology" per your definition doesn't exist on
Midkemia is because Ray doesn't want it to. Simple as that.

Technology is mentioned several times though. In "Profit and the Grey
Assassin" there are indications that one of the characters are from
Earth. And in ADaS when Tomas remembers Ashen-Shugars life there are mention
of an empire that uses spaceships of some form. Can't remember the name
of the empire now though..

Cheers,
Simon

-- 
Simon Rönnberg,    adm@acc.umu.se |  rhuagh@acc.umu.se
Stipendiegränd 6A, 070-5631747    |  simion@cs.umu.se
907 35 Umeå
--
"God, root, what is difference?" - Pitr, www.userfriendly.org
--



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From: "Earl Borah" <earl@ncn.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 14:41:39 -0700
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> > If you've got Magic in the universe why would you need technology?
> 
> You guys really aren't making any logical statements here.
> 
> Aside from "it ruins the world" and "they've got magic" you're not
> giving any real reasons why technology does not or should not exist on
> Midkemia or any other world that has magic.

Actually, several people have given THE real reason -- the only 
reason that makes any difference whatsoever: Ray says gunpowder won't 
work. If Ray says there isn't gunpowder in Midkemia, then unless and 
until he changes his mind, there simply isn't any gunpowder in 
Midkemia. End of story.

Ray's gone a step further to say that the gods of Midkemia will not 
allow it to work (or something similar), but since HE is the head god 
in charge of Midkemia as far as we're concerned, what he says goes, 
regardless of why he decided it should be that way.

> As I said before, Shadowrun works quite wonderfully with both
> technology and magic, with one enhancing, or harming in some cases,
> the other.

And if Ray wants to explore how technology and magic can interact, he 
can. If he doesn't, then he won't. We can debate whether or not we 
think it's a good idea until we're blue in the face, but we're not 
the ones who get to make the rules.

Talk about not making logical statements...I'm confused why Shadowrun 
has any bearing on Ray's books. It's a different fictional place than 
this fictional place, guys!
  - Earl Borah
-----
  If a man speaks in a forest and a woman isn't there to hear it,
  is he still wrong?              (author unknown)



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Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 00:39:05 +0200
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From: Ziad El-Hajj <pilgrim@inco.com.lb>
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Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 00:39:05 +0200
From: Ziad El-Hajj <pilgrim@inco.com.lb>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Jigsaw Lady
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richard.smith@pharma.novartis.com wrote:

> Is there any other books you personally would like to write but cant due to
> time publisher Etc....

On that topic, Ray, whatever happened to The Jigsaw Lady (that was the title
wasn't it)? Is it a "dead" project, or do you still plan on getting back to it
down the timeline?

Ziad



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Subject: Re: Magic and Technology 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 11 Apr 2002 08:52:41 +0100."
             <5.1.0.14.2.20020411085214.0306b8a0@mail.swindon.wrsec.fr> 
Cc: Alan.Hargreaves@Sun.COM
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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Magic and Technology 
Cc: Alan.Hargreaves@Sun.COM
From: Alan.Hargreaves@Sun.COM
Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 08:04:06 +1000
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Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

In case anyone is interested, the quote about magic and sufficiently advanced 
technology being indistinguishable is generally attributed to Arthur C. Clarke


alan.
--
Alan Hargreaves                 Senior Technical Support Specialist
Phone      : +61 2 9844 5379    Technical Support Group
Mobile     : +61 416 207 573    APAC Customer Care Centre
Fax        : +61 2 9418 2143    Sun Microsystems Australia
Call Centre: 1 800 555 786      828 Pacific Highway, Gordon NSW 2072

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Subject: Re: Magic and Technology
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*** EOOH ***
From: "-maniax-" <maniax@firetrack.demon.co.uk>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Magic and Technology
Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 23:34:45 +0100
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Andy Holcombe" <andy_wan_kenobi@hotmail.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 7:30 PM
Subject: Re: Magic and Technology



> I didn't recall Quegan fire oil being so explosive.  But it has been a few
> years snce I read those books.

It's the vapour from the fire oil that is explosive which is why the
Armengar caves had to be kept well ventilated to prevent the build up of the
vapour, the oil itself just seems to burn (intensely)

-maniax-



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 15:55:50 -0700
Subject: Re: Jigsaw Lady
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Thursday, April 11, 2002, at 03:39 PM, Ziad El-Hajj wrote:

> richard.smith@pharma.novartis.com wrote:
>
>> Is there any other books you personally would like to write but cant 
>> due to
>> time publisher Etc....
>
> On that topic, Ray, whatever happened to The Jigsaw Lady (that was the 
> title
> wasn't it)? Is it a "dead" project, or do you still plan on getting 
> back to it
> down the timeline?
>

My two science fiction novels, Jigsaw Lady and Jumpstart will both get 
written some day.  But with the sf market being so weak right now, no 
publisher wants to even talk to me about it.  I will probably have to 
write those books on spec, just as I'm having to do with my non-fiction 
book on dancers.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 15:56:25 -0700
Subject: Re: Magic and Technology 
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Thursday, April 11, 2002, at 03:04 PM, Alan.Hargreaves@Sun.COM wrote:

> In case anyone is interested, the quote about magic and sufficiently 
> advanced
> technology being indistinguishable is generally attributed to Arthur C. 
> Clarke
>
>

Yup.  I believe part of his "four laws," or some such about things 
sf-ish.

Best, R.E.F>
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 01:25:02 +0200
From: Erik Trulsson <ertr1013@student.uu.se>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
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On Thu, Apr 11, 2002 at 03:56:25PM -0700, Raymond Feist wrote:
> 
> On Thursday, April 11, 2002, at 03:04 PM, Alan.Hargreaves@Sun.COM wrote:
> 
> >In case anyone is interested, the quote about magic and sufficiently 
> >advanced
> >technology being indistinguishable is generally attributed to Arthur C. 
> >Clarke
> >
> >
> 
> Yup.  I believe part of his "four laws," or some such about things 
> sf-ish.

Three laws actually, all of which can be found at:
http://www.lsi.usp.br/~rbianchi/clarke/ACC.Laws.html


-- 
<Insert your favourite quote here.>
Erik Trulsson
ertr1013@student.uu.se



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*** EOOH ***
From: Gkhd11a@aol.com
Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 20:04:48 EDT
Subject: Re: Jigsaw Lady
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       Mr. Feist, did you ever think about a sci-fi book that had the same 
kind of plot as your fantasy books?  I mean, with empires, evil power trying 
to take over the area, and such.  I don't see to many of those types at all 
in sci-fi, and I don't know why.  I have quite a few good ideas on writing 
that type, and I was wondering why it's not done more often.  Or is it that 
they don't sell?

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Subject: Re: Dash and Jimmy
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*** EOOH ***
From: RBlackley@aol.com
Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 21:46:32 EDT
Subject: Re: Dash and Jimmy
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I think the thing I really liked about Vykor was the "this is nicholas's 
ocean dammit and I won't have them sailing on it."  that was pulled directly 
from my head so it prob is not quite right but you get the jist of it.
       Richard

In a message dated 4/11/2002 11:09:09 AM Eastern Daylight Time, 
raymond@bittersea.com writes:


> Nope.
> 
> Just to make one thing clear on the "not telling you what to write" 
> bit.  I got that without you having to say it, mostly because you didn't 
> start off with "why don't you write a book on Jimmy and Dash?"
> 
> The thing about writing good characters is if you do it right, the 
> reader wants more.  The characters appear to have dimension, have "more" 
> story to tell, even if I don't have anything else to say about them.  I 
> once had someone write me to ask if I was going to do an entire book on 
> Admiral Vykor.  That was a nice complement, because obviously a 
> relatively minor character hit a nerve with that reader.
> 
> But I have no more to write about Jimmy and Dash unless it's as minor, 
> supporting characters in the current books,and I don't even know if I'm 
> going to use them.
> 
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
> 
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
> stupidity.
> 


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*** EOOH ***
From: RBlackley@aol.com
Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 21:49:17 EDT
Subject: Re: Magic and Technology
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The oil is not as bad as the vapor.
Richard

In a message dated 4/11/2002 2:50:11 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
andy_wan_kenobi@hotmail.com writes:


> I didn't recall Quegan fire oil being so explosive.  But it has been a few 
> years snce I read those books.
> 
> Andy Holcombe
> Andy_wan_Kenobi@hotmail.com


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                         Aristotle
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Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 20:04:17 -0700
Subject: Re: Jigsaw Lady
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 20:04:17 -0700
Subject: Re: Jigsaw Lady
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Thursday, April 11, 2002, at 05:04 PM, Gkhd11a@aol.com wrote:

>      Mr. Feist, did you ever think about a sci-fi book that had the 
> same kind of plot as your fantasy books?  I mean, with empires, evil 
> power trying to take over the area, and such.  I don't see to many of 
> those types at all in sci-fi, and I don't know why.  I have quite a few 
> good ideas on writing that type, and I was wondering why it's not done 
> more often.  Or is it that they don't sell?
>
>
>
Oh, there have been a few great galaxy spanning empire books over the 
years, and some were fun, such as the stuff written by Keith Laumer or 
A. Bertram Chandler, or Poul Anderson.  Give them a try.

My stories will be . . . well, my stories. <g>

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.

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Subject: Re: Magic and Technology
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 21:10:58 -0600
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Magic and Technology
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Western Rhythm wrote:
> 
> Its far safer to leave technology out of the equation with rays universe,
> since magic makes up for it.

You are automatically assuming that technology can automatically make up
for anything and everything that technology can accomplish.

For example, aside from the Portals, which move people between worlds,
does anything go faster than a horse?
I don't see magic moving great numbers of people across Midkemia quickly
like a train system might.

Craig J. Ries



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 21:18:02 -0600
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
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Earl Borah wrote:
> 
> Actually, several people have given THE real reason -- the only
> reason that makes any difference whatsoever: Ray says gunpowder won't
> work. If Ray says there isn't gunpowder in Midkemia, then unless and
> until he changes his mind, there simply isn't any gunpowder in
> Midkemia. End of story.

So gunpowder is the only technology that has ever existed?

Ok, fine. No gunpowder on Midkemia. What about the tons of other
technology besides that that would be useful to the people of Midkemia?

> Talk about not making logical statements...I'm confused why Shadowrun
> has any bearing on Ray's books.

Somebody stated that a world with magic does not or cannot work with
technology. I gave an example where it does work.

Craig J. Ries



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 21:16:04 -0600
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
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Subject: Re: Next
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Simon Rönnberg wrote:
> 
> The reason why "technology" per your definition doesn't exist on
> Midkemia is because Ray doesn't want it to. Simple as that.

You're pulling statements out of thin air.

I never said whether or not I agree or disagree with Ray's personal
opinion on the matter (his is the only valid one anyways; its his world,
if he doesn't want technology, so be it).

I commented on the opinions of OTHER people who said nothing more than
"why would you need technology?".

Craig J. Ries



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 21:21:13 -0600
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Jigsaw Lady
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Raymond Feist wrote:
> 
> But with the sf market being so weak right now, no
> publisher wants to even talk to me about it.

Hrm, didn't realize this was the case. I would still think that, because
of your success, you would atleast get a shot at it.

What do you think the status of the fantasy market is right now?
There always seems to be more fantasy than sci-fi, but sci-fi seems
harder to write to me :)

Craig J. Ries



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From: "David P. Rouse" <viperphi@ezaccess.net>
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Subject: RE: Magic and Technology
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From: "David P. Rouse" <viperphi@ezaccess.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Magic and Technology
Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 23:40:15 -0400
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Note: This is my own personal opinion.

I don't know if this is really a question of technology versus magic.
For both can be found in the books. Technology and science made the
forging of swords possible. There are numerous references in Ray's books
to Alchemists and such. Some used magic in their brews, others used some
form of Midkemian "chemistry". It cannot be said that technology is not
present. It is just not bound by the same laws as out reality is.

To add gunpowder would/could change the face of the world as we know it
completely. The places that we knew would be changed. Think about if one
of the races found on Midkemia developed gunpowder or something of its
like, what would they do with it? That race would have an unfair
advantage against anyone not employing magic. Kesh would annex the
kingdom back into the empire. Before I get any further into an
irrelevant tangent, it to me just wouldn't be the same Midkemia with the
presence of gunpowder.

This can argued over and over again and all different views can be
voiced. But in the end, it is Ray's imagination that creates this world.
Things change in the Midkemia presented in his books at his whim.

I believe that the advent of such things as gunpowder would detract from
the fantasy and bring it too close to the world and reality that we
know. But, it cannot be said that technology in some forms does not
exist here. 

If we think about it folks, the wheel was an ancient technological
breakthrough. Whether it be a farmer planting corn in a field or a mason
building castle walls, both are based on some science or another is
magic was not used in its creation.

This all just brings to my mind Nakor. What would he say about this
argument (please, this does not require a response)? The "stuff" that is
everywhere in Midkemia...

Just thoughts,

David







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Subject: Re: Jigsaw Lady
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 21:07:15 -0700
Subject: Re: Jigsaw Lady
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Thursday, April 11, 2002, at 08:21 PM, Craig J. Ries wrote:

> Raymond Feist wrote:
>>
>> But with the sf market being so weak right now, no
>> publisher wants to even talk to me about it.
>
> Hrm, didn't realize this was the case. I would still think that, because
> of your success, you would atleast get a shot at it.

Oh, someone will buy it, but I have to write it first.  I won't be able 
to get a contract in advance with my usual price because of the 
perception that "SF doesn't sell."  If I write my first sf novel, sell 
it for short front money, and it hits the times list, then I can get big 
bucks for the 2nd one.

>
> What do you think the status of the fantasy market is right now?

Stronger than SF, by an order of magnitude, but tough to hit the top 
these days.  But it's where many midlist authors are making a living.

> There always seems to be more fantasy than sci-fi, but sci-fi seems
> harder to write to me :)
>

It looks harder to write because you're not a writer.  It's a common 
assumption. Ask Grey Bear (whose fantasy was OK) or some others whose 
fantasy sucks.  Some could do both with ease, like Poul Anderson, but 
for the most part it's writing, and good writing is never easy.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 22:34:34 -0600
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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Raymond Feist wrote:
> 
> It looks harder to write because you're not a writer.

*chuckle* There is that :)
I believe I have a shot at atleast getting something in fantasy
published before long though, so I may have a start going :)

> but for the most part it's writing, and good writing is never easy.

I guess I've always been more interested in writing fantasy than science
fiction, so that may be part of where I'm coming from.
My science fiction reading is pretty much limited to Star Trek right
now, which has a rather large range in degree of quality from book to
book, but still quite enjoyable overall.

Craig J. Ries



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Subject: Re: Jigsaw Lady
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Western Rhythm" <info@westernrhythm.com>
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Subject: Re: Jigsaw Lady
Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 12:51:22 +0800
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somebody tell me whats the true difference between fantasy and sci-fi? I
always thought the two were related and bonded.



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Subject: Re: Magic and Technology - (Quotes)
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From: "A Gnome" <nightshadow@froggy.com.au>
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From: "Sean Fister" <sean@hope.kih.net>
> At 06:38 PM 10/8/01, you wrote:
> >Appologies if this is the scond time.
> >
> > >Western Rhythm wrote:
> > > >
> > > > If you've got Magic in the universe why would you need technology?
> >
> >Not everyone is able to use magic, nor are wizards the most dependable
> >of
> >creatures.  It just stands to reason that those without magic would seek
> >an
> >equalizer and those with access to magic would want alternatives when
> >magic
> >either doesn't work or isn't available.
> >
> >On the gunpowder issue, maybe I'm mistaken, but I seem to remember
> >various
> >people using explosives at various times.  If explosives were used, what
> >are
> >they if not gunpowder?
>
>
> Actually, IIRC, Ray has said magic is more common than you think.  Its just
> very specialized in some instances, like the Wrecker's Guild.  Not
> everybody who uses magic is a true magician in the Kulgan or Pug sense of
> things..  As for gunpowder, I believe Ray has said in the past that the
> Gods of Midkemia have basically outlawed gunpowder.  I guess they prevent
> it from working.  If I misstated anything here, I'm sure somebody will
> correct me.  I'm working from a very vague recollection.
>
> Sean Fister
K:TotG provided a good insight into the wreckers guild, did you just use
that book as an opportunity to elaborate on the guild ray ? or was it just
chance that they required the use of the guild (I have nto played the game
so do not know if that was in it or not).
CIAO,
           Aaron

http://www.hallofworlds.net/kerr/main.php
http://nightshadow.co.uk



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Subject: Re: Magic and Technology
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From: "Henrik Grotle" <henrik@arasoft.no>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Magic and Technology
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> For example, aside from the Portals, which move people between worlds,
> does anything go faster than a horse?
> I don't see magic moving great numbers of people across Midkemia quickly
> like a train system might.

The Cho-Ja :) Though I can only remember them carrying men on one occasion
and that was on Kelewan.

Henrik Grotle.



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Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 08:58:43 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: Magic and Technology
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At 11:34 PM 4/11/02, -maniax- wrote:
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Andy Holcombe" <andy_wan_kenobi@hotmail.com>
>
>> I didn't recall Quegan fire oil being so explosive.  But it has been a few
>> years snce I read those books.
>
>It's the vapour from the fire oil that is explosive which is why the
>Armengar caves had to be kept well ventilated to prevent the build up of the
>vapour, the oil itself just seems to burn (intensely)
>
>-maniax-

You've got it backwards, Maniax.  Quegan fire oil is a refined product,
the vapor that is explosive comes from one of its ingredients, naptha.
But otherwise, you are correct.

The vapor from naptha, mixed with oxygen, becomes a fuel/air explosive,
which are /nasty/ (as the Armengarians pointed out to the Moredhel, as
you noted.).

Take naptha and mix it with other ingredients you get fire oil (on our
own planet, think "Greek Fire").  What is special about it is that you
can not put it out.  Once lit, it burns until it is gone.  And that
is what makes /it/ nasty.  It is effectively Napalm, however Napalm
is gelatinous as opposed to oily.

So Andy's recollection was correct.  Fire oil isn't explosive, it just
burns.

rip



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From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: SciFi vs Fant, was Re: Jigsaw Lady
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Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 09:07:54 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: SciFi vs Fant, was Re: Jigsaw Lady
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At 05:51 AM 4/12/02, Western Rhythm wrote:
>somebody tell me whats the true difference between fantasy and sci-fi? I
>always thought the two were related and bonded.

oooh.  Good!

Posit One:
Science Fiction is fiction that requires science (ie, technology) to 
tell at least part of the story.  The technology in question must be
beyond what is currently available.  Fantasy requires at least one element
that "modern" readers need to suspend their belief against (Gods Do 
Exist, or Magic, or to a lesser extent, Mystical Creatures).

For the record, /most/ stories that fall into the heading "Science 
Fiction" will generally also have elements of fantasy in them, and 
"Fantasy" novels might also have elements of science fiction in them.

And some times, they are wholly the one, masquerading as the other
(cf. the Pern books by McCaffrey, for an example of SF masquerading
as Fantasy, or the entire Star Wars mythos for Fantasy masquerading
as SF).

So they aren't related, except that most bookstores lump them together.

rip



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Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 01:15:31 -0700
Subject: Re: Jigsaw Lady
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On Thursday, April 11, 2002, at 09:51 PM, Western Rhythm wrote:

> somebody tell me whats the true difference between fantasy and sci-fi? I
> always thought the two were related and bonded.
>
>
>
>
Science fiction is a sub-set of fantasy.  It's fantasy that concerns 
itself with science, and therefore limits it's "wonder factor" by 
attempting to keep the "magic" within the realm of plausible science as 
extrapolated by the writer.  That's why we can laugh at E.E. "Doc" 
Smith's mile long bus bars and four story tall vacuum tubes in the 
Lensman series, because science has long since past what he 
extrapolated.  On the other hand 2001 still holds up, even though it's 
"last year," now.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Subject: Re: Magic and Technology - (Quotes)
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Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 01:17:44 -0700
Subject: Re: Magic and Technology - (Quotes)
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
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On Thursday, April 11, 2002, at 10:51 PM, A Gnome wrote:

> From: "Sean Fister" <sean@hope.kih.net>
>> At 06:38 PM 10/8/01, you wrote:
>>> Appologies if this is the scond time.
>>>
>>>> Western Rhythm wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> If you've got Magic in the universe why would you need technology?
>>>
>>> Not everyone is able to use magic, nor are wizards the most dependable
>>> of
>>> creatures.  It just stands to reason that those without magic would 
>>> seek
>>> an
>>> equalizer and those with access to magic would want alternatives when
>>> magic
>>> either doesn't work or isn't available.
>>>
>>> On the gunpowder issue, maybe I'm mistaken, but I seem to remember
>>> various
>>> people using explosives at various times.  If explosives were used, 
>>> what
>>> are
>>> they if not gunpowder?
>>
>>
>> Actually, IIRC, Ray has said magic is more common than you think.  Its
> just
>> very specialized in some instances, like the Wrecker's Guild.  Not
>> everybody who uses magic is a true magician in the Kulgan or Pug sense 
>> of
>> things..  As for gunpowder, I believe Ray has said in the past that the
>> Gods of Midkemia have basically outlawed gunpowder.  I guess they 
>> prevent
>> it from working.  If I misstated anything here, I'm sure somebody will
>> correct me.  I'm working from a very vague recollection.
>>
>> Sean Fister
> K:TotG provided a good insight into the wreckers guild, did you just use
> that book as an opportunity to elaborate on the guild ray ? or was it 
> just
> chance that they required the use of the guild (I have nto played the 
> game
> so do not know if that was in it or not).
> CIAO,
>

Well, two of the guilds that have been around in Krondor since we played 
were the Wreckers and the Mudcrafters, who are examples of non-magicians 
having some magic ability.  The original script for Tear of the Gods 
seized upon that and ran with it, so I got to expand a bit on what we 
had done in the game.  Having Kendaric be a magician who didn't know he 
was one was, I believe, Ted Culp's idea.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Subject: Re: Magic and Technology
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From: "Donal K. Fellows" <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Magic and Technology
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"David P. Rouse" <viperphi@ezaccess.net>
> I don't know if this is really a question of technology versus magic.
> For both can be found in the books. Technology and science made the
> forging of swords possible. There are numerous references in Ray's books
> to Alchemists and such. Some used magic in their brews, others used some
> form of Midkemian "chemistry". It cannot be said that technology is not
> present. It is just not bound by the same laws as out reality is.

Correct, and the Midkemians do not appear to have science; in
particular, they don't seem to have thought of the scientific method.
But if they did, no reason why it wouldn't work with however their
patch of the universe is arranged (perhaps leading to a Grand Unified
Theory of Magic <g>)  However, at the moment all those potential
scientists are busy doing other things (like being magicians and
priests) and many of the things that drove technological development
in our world have different solutions in Midkemia due to things like
the efficacy of prayer and other forms of religious devotion.

> I believe that the advent of such things as gunpowder would detract from
> the fantasy and bring it too close to the world and reality that we
> know. But, it cannot be said that technology in some forms does not
> exist here. 

Not necessarily; I've seen some good settings which combined tech and
magic and the ways in which they differed from our world were very
interesting.  However, IIRC the back-story with solid-phase explosives
on Midkemia is that the relevant local gods prefer them not to exist
and so make them either burn slowly or explode violently enough so as
to kill the experimenter and destroy any notes he kept.  There's not
much incentive to investigate if nothing much happens at all below the
threshold of blowing yourself up!

Donal.
-- 
Donal K. Fellows, Department of Computer Science, University of Manchester, UK.
(work) fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk     Tel: +44-161-275-6137  (preferred email addr.)
(home) donal@ugglan.demon.co.uk  Tel: +44-1274-401017   Mobile: +44-7957-298955
http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~fellowsd/  (Don't quote my .sig; I've seen it before!)



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From: "James E.Roberts" <jroberts6@vtown.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Next
Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 20:50:19 +1000
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    The term "give them Quegen bustards a broadside!" wouldn't be out of
place at all ;).
    But the Kingdom developing gunpowder technology would change things
quite a bit. For example they could blast the reefs that make the Straights
of Darkness dangers and make it passable all year round.Then they could
build keeps on each side of the Straights and effectively control the Bitter
sea and make a fortune out of the fee's paid to use the straights. Also how
diffrent would the Serpent war have turned out if there was cannon on the
ships that defended the Kingdom? Such things would proberly be best left to
a new set of books set WAY after the riftwars in my opinion but I imagine it
would be a hell of a read!

Jamie
----- Original Message -----
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 4:48 AM
Subject: Re: Next


> Adam Thornton wrote:
> >
> > and regarding the guy who hopes everyone in midkemia finds "technology" and
> > "gun powder" i for one pray that nothing like that ever happens, as it would
> > wreck everything in my honest opinion
>
> Considering that most fantasy out there does not have technology and/or
> gunpowder, it might be a nice change of pace.
> Without ANY supporting evidence, to say that it would "wreck everything"
> is quite unfounded.
>
> I've always wanted to play Shadowrun, and GammaWorld was a fun world to
> play :)
>
> Craig J. Ries
>



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From: "James Holden" <james@globalvision.com>
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Subject: RE: Next
Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 12:38:11 +0100
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From: "James Holden" <james@globalvision.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Next
Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 12:38:11 +0100
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I suppose the other side of the coin is that increased technology is always
shared, eventually.  The kingdom develops gunpowder but given that people
are captured etc it would be used by the other side after time.

I suppose given the Ray's book tend to be in a cronological fashion spanning
many decades we expect to see not only the evolvement of characters but also
the life in which they live.  We see the game of football advanced from the
early beginnings in Crydee through to a well disiplined, rule bound game in
later books and one would expect similar goings on in other aspects.



-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of James E.Roberts
>Sent: 12 April 2002 11:50
>To: FEISTFANS-L
>Subject: Re: Next
>
>
>    The term "give them Quegen bustards a broadside!" wouldn't be out of
>place at all ;).
>    But the Kingdom developing gunpowder technology would change things
>quite a bit. For example they could blast the reefs that make the Straights
>of Darkness dangers and make it passable all year round.Then they could
>build keeps on each side of the Straights and effectively control the Bitter
>sea and make a fortune out of the fee's paid to use the straights. Also how
>diffrent would the Serpent war have turned out if there was cannon on the
>ships that defended the Kingdom? Such things would proberly be best left to
>a new set of books set WAY after the riftwars in my opinion but I imagine it
>would be a hell of a read!
>
>Jamie
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
>To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
>Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 4:48 AM
>Subject: Re: Next
>
>
>> Adam Thornton wrote:
>> >
>> > and regarding the guy who hopes everyone in midkemia finds "technology"
>and
>> > "gun powder" i for one pray that nothing like that ever happens, as it
>would
>> > wreck everything in my honest opinion
>>
>> Considering that most fantasy out there does not have technology and/or
>> gunpowder, it might be a nice change of pace.
>> Without ANY supporting evidence, to say that it would "wreck everything"
>> is quite unfounded.
>>
>> I've always wanted to play Shadowrun, and GammaWorld was a fun world to
>> play :)
>>
>> Craig J. Ries
>>
>


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Subject: Re: Magic and Technology
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Err. wouldn't you be able to put it out? Not with water obviously but 
you should be able to cut off the oxigen indraw and thereby stop the 
combustion. That is you need something lighter then fire oil etc. It 
would of course be hard to do.

I expect there is no material that could not be put out at least in theory.

Marc aka Caran...

Richard Williamson wrote:

>At 11:34 PM 4/11/02, -maniax- wrote:
>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "Andy Holcombe" <andy_wan_kenobi@hotmail.com>
>>
>>>I didn't recall Quegan fire oil being so explosive.  But it has been a few
>>>years snce I read those books.
>>>
>>It's the vapour from the fire oil that is explosive which is why the
>>Armengar caves had to be kept well ventilated to prevent the build up of the
>>vapour, the oil itself just seems to burn (intensely)
>>
>>-maniax-
>>
>
>You've got it backwards, Maniax.  Quegan fire oil is a refined product,
>the vapor that is explosive comes from one of its ingredients, naptha.
>But otherwise, you are correct.
>
>The vapor from naptha, mixed with oxygen, becomes a fuel/air explosive,
>which are /nasty/ (as the Armengarians pointed out to the Moredhel, as
>you noted.).
>
>Take naptha and mix it with other ingredients you get fire oil (on our
>own planet, think "Greek Fire").  What is special about it is that you
>can not put it out.  Once lit, it burns until it is gone.  And that
>is what makes /it/ nasty.  It is effectively Napalm, however Napalm
>is gelatinous as opposed to oily.
>
>So Andy's recollection was correct.  Fire oil isn't explosive, it just
>burns.
>
>rip
>
>




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Subject: Re: SciFi vs Fant, was Re: Jigsaw Lady
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Good answer, I once took up the task (college term paper) to define both 
styles (by examples, including Ray, McCaffrey, A.C. Clarke and several 
other authors) and how to finally separate them. That was the only class 
I ever failed abismally in (once I noticed what work I had set myself it 
was too late, I could have done it with much more time and access to my 
library (which was on the wrong continent)).

It should also be noted that the lines are definitelly not clear.

Marc aka Caran...

P.S.: To me Pern is SF masquerading as fantasy;-)

Richard Williamson wrote:

>At 05:51 AM 4/12/02, Western Rhythm wrote:
>
>>somebody tell me whats the true difference between fantasy and sci-fi? I
>>always thought the two were related and bonded.
>>
>
>oooh.  Good!
>
>Posit One:
>Science Fiction is fiction that requires science (ie, technology) to 
>tell at least part of the story.  The technology in question must be
>beyond what is currently available.  Fantasy requires at least one element
>that "modern" readers need to suspend their belief against (Gods Do 
>Exist, or Magic, or to a lesser extent, Mystical Creatures).
>
>For the record, /most/ stories that fall into the heading "Science 
>Fiction" will generally also have elements of fantasy in them, and 
>"Fantasy" novels might also have elements of science fiction in them.
>
>And some times, they are wholly the one, masquerading as the other
>(cf. the Pern books by McCaffrey, for an example of SF masquerading
>as Fantasy, or the entire Star Wars mythos for Fantasy masquerading
>as SF).
>
>So they aren't related, except that most bookstores lump them together.
>
>rip
>
>




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Subject: Re: Magic and Technology
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From: "Donal K. Fellows" <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Magic and Technology
Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 13:32:45 +0100
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Caranorn Aglaredhel <caranorn@cmdnet.lu>
> Err. wouldn't you be able to put it out? Not with water obviously but 
> you should be able to cut off the oxigen indraw and thereby stop the 
> combustion. That is you need something lighter then fire oil etc. It 
> would of course be hard to do.

Not if it is either:
  a) premixed with its own oxidiser (which is actually how low
     explosives like gunpowder work) or
  b) so reactive it can pull the oxygen out of water; you don't put
     out a blazing sodium fire using water!  Well, not twice.  <eg>

> I expect there is no material that could not be put out at least in
> theory.

If you were to mix powdered aluminium and rust and set fire to that,
putting the resulting reaction out would be tricky to say the least.
Especially with all the molten iron about keeping everything hot...

Donal.
-- 
Donal K. Fellows, Department of Computer Science, University of Manchester, UK.
(work) fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk     Tel: +44-161-275-6137  (preferred email addr.)
(home) donal@ugglan.demon.co.uk  Tel: +44-1274-401017   Mobile: +44-7957-298955
http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~fellowsd/  (Don't quote my .sig; I've seen it before!)



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At 12:45 PM 4/12/02, Caranorn Aglaredhel wrote:
>Err. wouldn't you be able to put it out? Not with water obviously but you should be able to cut off the oxigen indraw and thereby stop the combustion. That is you need something lighter then fire oil etc. It would of course be hard to do.

I'm pretty sure it has its own oxidizer, so it might even burn in vacuum,
or failing that, it might ignite on contact with oxygen... 

dunno.  Never was an alchemist.

rip



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From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re: Next
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Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 09:13:52 -0400
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Blast the reefs apart with gunpowder, I think not. It is tricky enough to 
get my flintlock to fire on a misty day, never mind blowing up a reef that 
is underwater with gunpowder. They would have a much easier time doing that 
with magic than gunpowder, I would think. Or are you referring to modern 
smokless gunpowder rhater than blackpowder?

Adieu

Jimmy


>From: "James E.Roberts" <jroberts6@vtown.com.au>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
>Subject: Re: Next
>Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 20:50:19 +1000
>
>     The term "give them Quegen bustards a broadside!" wouldn't be out of
>place at all ;).
>     But the Kingdom developing gunpowder technology would change things
>quite a bit. For example they could blast the reefs that make the Straights
>of Darkness dangers and make it passable all year round.Then they could
>build keeps on each side of the Straights and effectively control the 
>Bitter
>sea and make a fortune out of the fee's paid to use the straights. Also how
>diffrent would the Serpent war have turned out if there was cannon on the
>ships that defended the Kingdom? Such things would proberly be best left to
>a new set of books set WAY after the riftwars in my opinion but I imagine 
>it
>would be a hell of a read!
>
>Jamie
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
>To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
>Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 4:48 AM
>Subject: Re: Next
>
>
> > Adam Thornton wrote:
> > >
> > > and regarding the guy who hopes everyone in midkemia finds 
>"technology"
>and
> > > "gun powder" i for one pray that nothing like that ever happens, as it
>would
> > > wreck everything in my honest opinion
> >
> > Considering that most fantasy out there does not have technology and/or
> > gunpowder, it might be a nice change of pace.
> > Without ANY supporting evidence, to say that it would "wreck everything"
> > is quite unfounded.
> >
> > I've always wanted to play Shadowrun, and GammaWorld was a fun world to
> > play :)
> >
> > Craig J. Ries
> >
>


_________________________________________________________________
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From: "Some DuDe" <somedude1_2000@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Feist Contest was Re: Very Own Midkemia
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From: "Some DuDe" <somedude1_2000@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Feist Contest was Re: Very Own Midkemia
Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 23:58:54 +1000
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Thanks Ray
with the contest thing.. would you mind if i helped organize it or 
something? or if the entire list got involved
sorry about the 'hate' thing i didn't mean it to sound quite to harsh
i fully understand why and respect your reasons
i was wondering how do you have all these stories already set out
you have 5 rift wars of which i think only 1 or 2 are already written yet 
the others are stored away in your brain
i find this really interesting
its almost of you are recounting events that's why we like it so much 
because your writing is so well done
i really liked the serpent war saga and i was wondering if we will see more 
of Roo and erik because they are very popular and likeable
also Nakor is a very nice character
i would like to make up my own world as you suggest but its simply that i 
have no idea where to start
perhaps you may share your insight? how did you come across creating 
midkemia
i understand it was a group effort of sorts with some college friends
but they didn't help you with the writing part and as they created the world 
your made it seem real
maybe you could share with us some of your secrets


>From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
>Subject: Re: Very Own Midkemia
>Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 07:44:49 -0700
>
>
>On Thursday, April 11, 2002, at 12:54 AM, Some DuDe wrote:
>
>>Ray,
>>I have extensively read over all material relating to the whole
>>situation about us not making our own things based on midkemia
>>this being anything from our own stories to video games
>>but i was wondering what would you think of a competition
>>it could be to write our own Midkemian stories or games or whatever
>>it would be in a controlled environment
>>i really hate this rule we have where we may not make our own stores or
>>n e thing but i respect it and you but i thought this alternative up
>>and was wondering what your thoughts on it are
>>
>>_________________________________________________________________
>>Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>I've done contests before, but not for a while.
>
>I might do another again, one of these days.
>
>But as far as you "hate this rule," consider that if I can't protect my
>copyright, I have no profit motive, and then I go find something else to
>do instead of writing.
>
>If you have a writing jones, my suggestion is to create your own world.
>It's really a lot of fun and if you do it well enough, someone might pay
>you to read about it.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
>stupidity.
>


_________________________________________________________________
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From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: Feist Contest was Re: Very Own Midkemia
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Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 16:44:23 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: Feist Contest was Re: Very Own Midkemia
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Ray sets up his own contests as/if/when necessary.  He certainly
doesn't need /our/ help with that.  

Please go read the FAQ, and then the archives and you will see 
how it has been done, and you will also get answers to most 
of your questions.  Once you've got that all sorted, /then/ 
ask questions...

Where are the FAQs?  http://www.psihawk.com/feist/

HTH,
rip

At 02:58 PM 4/12/02, Some DuDe showed his ignorance by asking:
- for answers to questions found in the FAQ -



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From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Next
Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 23:48:43 +0800
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From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Next
Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 23:48:43 +0800
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Or was the thinking possibly along the lines of following gunpowder come
other explosives such as dyanamite, tnt and C4.

Dave

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu 
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of James Silva
> Sent: Friday, 12 April 2002 9:14 PM
> To: FEISTFANS-L
> Subject: Re: Next
> 
> 
> Blast the reefs apart with gunpowder, I think not. It is 
> tricky enough to 
> get my flintlock to fire on a misty day, never mind blowing 
> up a reef that 
> is underwater with gunpowder. They would have a much easier 
> time doing that 
> with magic than gunpowder, I would think. Or are you 
> referring to modern 
> smokless gunpowder rhater than blackpowder?
> 
> Adieu
> 
> Jimmy
> 
> 
> >From: "James E.Roberts" <jroberts6@vtown.com.au>
> >Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> >To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
> >Subject: Re: Next
> >Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 20:50:19 +1000
> >
> >     The term "give them Quegen bustards a broadside!" 
> wouldn't be out of
> >place at all ;).
> >     But the Kingdom developing gunpowder technology would 
> change things
> >quite a bit. For example they could blast the reefs that 
> make the Straights
> >of Darkness dangers and make it passable all year round.Then 
> they could
> >build keeps on each side of the Straights and effectively 
> control the 
> >Bitter
> >sea and make a fortune out of the fee's paid to use the 
> straights. Also how
> >diffrent would the Serpent war have turned out if there was 
> cannon on the
> >ships that defended the Kingdom? Such things would proberly 
> be best left to
> >a new set of books set WAY after the riftwars in my opinion 
> but I imagine 
> >it
> >would be a hell of a read!
> >
> >Jamie
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
> >To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> >Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 4:48 AM
> >Subject: Re: Next
> >
> >
> > > Adam Thornton wrote:
> > > >
> > > > and regarding the guy who hopes everyone in midkemia finds 
> >"technology"
> >and
> > > > "gun powder" i for one pray that nothing like that ever 
> happens, as it
> >would
> > > > wreck everything in my honest opinion
> > >
> > > Considering that most fantasy out there does not have 
> technology and/or
> > > gunpowder, it might be a nice change of pace.
> > > Without ANY supporting evidence, to say that it would 
> "wreck everything"
> > > is quite unfounded.
> > >
> > > I've always wanted to play Shadowrun, and GammaWorld was 
> a fun world to
> > > play :)
> > >
> > > Craig J. Ries
> > >
> >
> 
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
> 



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From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Next
Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 12:18:56 -0400
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From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Next
Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 12:18:56 -0400
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c4, yes, that might do it.

Adieu

Jimmy


>From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
>Subject: RE: Next
>Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 23:48:43 +0800
>
>Or was the thinking possibly along the lines of following gunpowder come
>other explosives such as dyanamite, tnt and C4.
>
>Dave
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of James Silva
> > Sent: Friday, 12 April 2002 9:14 PM
> > To: FEISTFANS-L
> > Subject: Re: Next
> >
> >
> > Blast the reefs apart with gunpowder, I think not. It is
> > tricky enough to
> > get my flintlock to fire on a misty day, never mind blowing
> > up a reef that
> > is underwater with gunpowder. They would have a much easier
> > time doing that
> > with magic than gunpowder, I would think. Or are you
> > referring to modern
> > smokless gunpowder rhater than blackpowder?
> >
> > Adieu
> >
> > Jimmy
> >
> >
> > >From: "James E.Roberts" <jroberts6@vtown.com.au>
> > >Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > >To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
> > >Subject: Re: Next
> > >Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 20:50:19 +1000
> > >
> > >     The term "give them Quegen bustards a broadside!"
> > wouldn't be out of
> > >place at all ;).
> > >     But the Kingdom developing gunpowder technology would
> > change things
> > >quite a bit. For example they could blast the reefs that
> > make the Straights
> > >of Darkness dangers and make it passable all year round.Then
> > they could
> > >build keeps on each side of the Straights and effectively
> > control the
> > >Bitter
> > >sea and make a fortune out of the fee's paid to use the
> > straights. Also how
> > >diffrent would the Serpent war have turned out if there was
> > cannon on the
> > >ships that defended the Kingdom? Such things would proberly
> > be best left to
> > >a new set of books set WAY after the riftwars in my opinion
> > but I imagine
> > >it
> > >would be a hell of a read!
> > >
> > >Jamie
> > >----- Original Message -----
> > >From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
> > >To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> > >Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 4:48 AM
> > >Subject: Re: Next
> > >
> > >
> > > > Adam Thornton wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > and regarding the guy who hopes everyone in midkemia finds
> > >"technology"
> > >and
> > > > > "gun powder" i for one pray that nothing like that ever
> > happens, as it
> > >would
> > > > > wreck everything in my honest opinion
> > > >
> > > > Considering that most fantasy out there does not have
> > technology and/or
> > > > gunpowder, it might be a nice change of pace.
> > > > Without ANY supporting evidence, to say that it would
> > "wreck everything"
> > > > is quite unfounded.
> > > >
> > > > I've always wanted to play Shadowrun, and GammaWorld was
> > a fun world to
> > > > play :)
> > > >
> > > > Craig J. Ries
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
> >
>


_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com



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Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 09:37:54 -0700
Subject: Re: Feist Contest was Re: Very Own Midkemia
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Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 09:37:54 -0700
Subject: Re: Feist Contest was Re: Very Own Midkemia
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Friday, April 12, 2002, at 06:58 AM, Some DuDe wrote:

> Thanks Ray
> with the contest thing.. would you mind if i helped organize it or 
> something? or if the entire list got involved
> sorry about the 'hate' thing i didn't mean it to sound quite to harsh
> i fully understand why and respect your reasons
> i was wondering how do you have all these stories already set out
> you have 5 rift wars of which i think only 1 or 2 are already written 
> yet the others are stored away in your brain
> i find this really interesting
> its almost of you are recounting events that's why we like it so much 
> because your writing is so well done
> i really liked the serpent war saga and i was wondering if we will see 
> more of Roo and erik because they are very popular and likeable
> also Nakor is a very nice character
> i would like to make up my own world as you suggest but its simply that 
> i have no idea where to start
> perhaps you may share your insight? how did you come across creating 
> midkemia
> i understand it was a group effort of sorts with some college friends
> but they didn't help you with the writing part and as they created the 
> world your made it seem real
> maybe you could share with us some of your secrets
>

To start with, check out the FAQ.  A lot of your questions get answered 
there, and if you come across something that isn't, then ask here.

As for "secrets" there aren't any.  Writing is a skill set like any 
other, and it's a craft, and (in some cases) an art.  But people think 
because they got through Middle School able to write a letter home to 
granny that they should be able to sit down and pen a novel at first 
bash.  The fact is you practice writing just as you practice drawing or 
the piano.  If you take a couple of year's of piano lessons, you don't 
sit down and play Chopin (well, you might, but you problem don't sit 
down and play it well).

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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From: "Max Levine" <mrrex918@hotmail.com>
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Why not napalm? Any way the whole argument of magic and technology is
stupid. Technology would ruin the whole feel of a fantasy world of
Midkimia. Not to put words in Ray's mouth but i think Ray intended
that there wouldn't be anything to use as an alternative to magicians
powers

~Max

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Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 11:17:29 -0700
Subject: Re: Magic and Technology
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
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On Friday, April 12, 2002, at 05:43 AM, Richard Williamson wrote:

> At 12:45 PM 4/12/02, Caranorn Aglaredhel wrote:
>> Err. wouldn't you be able to put it out? Not with water obviously but 
>> you should be able to cut off the oxigen indraw and thereby stop the 
>> combustion. That is you need something lighter then fire oil etc. It 
>> would of course be hard to do.
>
> I'm pretty sure it has its own oxidizer, so it might even burn in 
> vacuum,
> or failing that, it might ignite on contact with oxygen...
>
> dunno.  Never was an alchemist.
>
> rip
>
>
>
>
"Greek Fire," which was a "mystery" for centuries (mostly because folks 
forgot how to make it, not that the Greeks every had an exclusive on how 
to make the stuff) was the model for Quegan Fire.  There are several 
different ways of making it, depending on what you want it to do, but 
mostly it's burns hell out of stuff.  The Greeks love it for naval 
warfare because water just spread it around faster.  You had to burry it 
with sand to have a prayer in containing it, because it contained its 
own oxidant.  It was, if momeory serves, naptha mixed with linestone 
dust (which is pretty explosive in its own right) for the slow burning 
stuff, and napthaleen, the distilation of natpha, with the dust for the 
really explosive stuff.  Given it's been 18 years since I read the damn 
articles I used for Darkness, the memory could be playing tricks.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Subject: Re: Feist Contest was Re: Very Own Midkemia
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From: Gkhd11a@aol.com
Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 14:44:01 EDT
Subject: Re: Feist Contest was Re: Very Own Midkemia
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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>On Friday, April 12, 2002, at 06:58 AM, Some DuDe wrote:
>
>> Thanks Ray
>> with the contest thing.. would you mind if i helpedorganize it or 
>> something? or if the entire list got involved
>> sorry about the 'hate' thing i didn't mean it tosound quite to harsh
>> i fully understand why and respect your reasons
>> i was wondering how do you have all these storiesalready set out
>> you have 5 rift wars of which i think only 1 or 2are already written 
>> yet the others are stored away in your brain
>> i find this really interesting
>> its almost of you are recounting events that's whywe like it so much 
>> because your writing is so well done
>> i really liked the serpent war saga and i was wonderingif we will see 
>> more of Roo and erik because they are very popularand likeable
>> also Nakor is a very nice character
>> i would like to make up my own world as you suggestbut its simply that 
>> i have no idea where to start
>> perhaps you may share your insight? how did youcome across creating 
>> midkemia
>> i understand it was a group effort of sorts withsome college friends
>> but they didn't help you with the writing part andas they created the 
>> world your made it seem real
>> maybe you could share with us some of your secrets
>>
>
>To start with, check out the FAQ.  A lot of your questions get answered 
>there, and if you come across something that isn't, thenask here.
>
>As for &quot;secrets&quot; there aren't any.  Writing is a skill set like 
any 
>other, and it's a craft, and (in some cases) anart.  But people think 
>because they got through Middle School able to write aletter home to 
>granny that they should be able to sit down and pen anovel at first 
>bash.  The factis you practice writing just as you practice drawing or 
>the piano.  Ifyou take a couple of year's of piano lessons, you don't 
>sit down and play Chopin (well, you might, but youproblem don't sit 
>down and play it well).
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily beexplained away by 
>stupidity.
 
 
Somedude-
       While what Mr. Feist said was true, he is being slightly misleading.  
He says there are no secrets, but I think he means there are no quick 
answers.  There are lots of little tricks (or secrets) to making your own 
fantasy world, but no quick answers that will instantly give you a great 
fantasy world.  I have made about 9 fantasy worlds, but none of them 
developed anywhere near the point of Midkemia.   What makes Midkemia so 
exciting to read about is the fact that there are so many interesting 
characters, and so deep a history.  I could write a book about making a 
fantasy world, but it is best shown by example.
       I personally like Kesh the most out of all the nations on Midkemia, 
and that's because of it's deep and realistic history.  All the people, 
legends, wars, heroes that make up it's history are interesting, and feel 
real.  You would have to do the same.  
       If you want help making your own fantasy world,e-mail me, I have lots 
of experience in making them.  And just if your wondering, I have had many 
people take a look at my worlds, and I have had maybe one person say they 
didn't like it, and all theothers liked it, a few even loved it.

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*cut/paste all the posts on tech vs magic*

Look....

Arm Erik and Roo and Calis's soldiers with M-16's and rocket launchers...
tons of ammo.... and wipe out the emerald queens army.....

See... does that REALLY make an interesting read.....

Let's say they had tanks... and trains...

Duke Borric and his party make their trip uneventful.... Pug is never 
captured.....
Never becomes a black robe.... etc......

And lastly.... Had they a cell phone... or pager... Pug could have called 
for help,
Or maybe he had a colt 45 on him as well......
when Carline was attacked by the troll.... never using his hidden/inate 
magic to
save Carline and going on to become the man he would have....

You invent a technology... and the magic behind it vanishes..... Technology 
would replace
magic... and thats not what this is all about.

Yes... I am going extreme... but I am trying to make a point.

If things were done ANY other way .. but the way they were done... we 
probably wouldn't
be sitting here arguing over this.  We are all on this list (presumably) 
b/c we like Ray's
books.. and the way he writes... So leave it alone.  No Gunpowder..  . No 
technology...

You get what you get.

Larry

My Homepage
http://www.psihawk.com

Raymond E. Feist FAQ
http://www.psihawk.com/feist



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From: "William Marnoch" <william@wmarnoch.freeserve.co.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On 12 Apr 02, at 1:17, Raymond Feist wrote:

> 
> On Thursday, April 11, 2002, at 10:51 PM, A Gnome wrote:
> > K:TotG provided a good insight into the wreckers guild, did you just use
> > that book as an opportunity to elaborate on the guild ray ? or was it
> > just chance that they required the use of the guild (I have nto played
> > the game so do not know if that was in it or not). CIAO,
> >
> 
> Well, two of the guilds that have been around in Krondor since we played
> were the Wreckers and the Mudcrafters, who are examples of non-magicians
> having some magic ability.

I don't think I've heard of the Mudcrafters in the books before (if 
they've only ever appeared in the game that's not surprising). What 
do they do?

>  The original script for Tear of the Gods
> seized upon that and ran with it, so I got to expand a bit on what we had
> done in the game.  Having Kendaric be a magician who didn't know he was
> one was, I believe, Ted Culp's idea.
> 
> Best, R.E.F.


-- 
William Marnoch
william@wmarnoch.freeserve.co.uk
ICQ:77848483



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Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 12:57:13 -0700
Subject: Re: Magic and Technology - (Quotes)
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
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On Friday, April 12, 2002, at 12:46 PM, William Marnoch wrote:

>
>
> On 12 Apr 02, at 1:17, Raymond Feist wrote:
>
>>
>> On Thursday, April 11, 2002, at 10:51 PM, A Gnome wrote:
>>> K:TotG provided a good insight into the wreckers guild, did you just 
>>> use
>>> that book as an opportunity to elaborate on the guild ray ? or was it
>>> just chance that they required the use of the guild (I have nto played
>>> the game so do not know if that was in it or not). CIAO,
>>>
>>
>> Well, two of the guilds that have been around in Krondor since we 
>> played
>> were the Wreckers and the Mudcrafters, who are examples of 
>> non-magicians
>> having some magic ability.
>
> I don't think I've heard of the Mudcrafters in the books before (if
> they've only ever appeared in the game that's not surprising). What
> do they do?
>

There was an old spell in the original D&D which was Stone/Mud.  So 
Steve Abrams came up with the Mudcrafter's guild, which meant you could 
build a castle or some other building in less time, because you could 
gather a lot of stone in a place, turn it to mud, have forms set up and 
shape it like you would concrete, then turn it back into stone.  The 
cheap version was to start with mud, but you had pray that no one came 
along and threw a dispell magic on your castle.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Subject: Re: Jigsaw Lady
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From: "Paul Whitby" <pjwhitby@ntlworld.com>
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Ray,

<a minor delurking after so many years on the the list>

With so many Feist-fans out there I am sure we would all appreciate the
release of ANYTHING that you write.
Now, assuming you are not immortal <g>, death comes to us all.
You would sure make alot of fans/readers happy if you wrote one/many book(s)
with the possible eventuality of those books being published/released
post-mortem.

Now, don't get me wrong, I hope you live to be a ripe old age (with wine,
women and song) but the thought of you leaving us with publications as yet
unwritten because of "contractual issues" leaves me cold.

Paul

<minor delurk over>

Flames as usual to my private address, Oh, and big HI to John and Richard


----- Original Message -----
From: "Raymond Feist" <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Friday, April 12, 2002 5:07 AM
Subject: Re: Jigsaw Lady


> > Raymond Feist wrote:
> Oh, someone will buy it, but I have to write it first.  I won't be able
> to get a contract in advance with my usual price because of the
> perception that "SF doesn't sell."  If I write my first sf novel, sell
> it for short front money, and it hits the times list, then I can get big
> bucks for the 2nd one.
>
> Stronger than SF, by an order of magnitude, but tough to hit the top
> these days.  But it's where many midlist authors are making a living.
>
> It looks harder to write because you're not a writer.  It's a common
> assumption. Ask Grey Bear (whose fantasy was OK) or some others whose
> fantasy sucks.  Some could do both with ease, like Poul Anderson, but
> for the most part it's writing, and good writing is never easy.
>
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
>
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
> stupidity.
>
>



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Subject: Magic and Technology
Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 15:52:43 -0500
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>From: Larry Siegel <larry@psihawk.com>

>If things were done ANY other way .. but the way they were done... we 
>probably wouldn't be sitting here arguing over this.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I was speaking for the future in terms of 
technology.  That at some point, someone would develop the printing press or 
an engine of some sort or man-portable Quegan fire oil.

Andy Holcombe
Andy_wan_Kenobi@hotmail.com

"To err is human, but to really foul things up requires a computer."
     -Farmers' Almanac 1978

"I don't give a damn for a man who can only spell a word one way."
     -Mark Twain

"History will be kind to me, for I intend to write it."
     -Winston Churchill

_________________________________________________________________
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From: "MChaloner" <markchaloner@btinternet.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Magic and Technology - (Quotes)
Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 10:27:54 +0100
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From: "MChaloner" <markchaloner@btinternet.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Magic and Technology - (Quotes)
Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 10:27:54 +0100
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>>> On Thursday, April 11, 2002, at 10:51 PM, A Gnome wrote:
>>>> K:TotG provided a good insight into the wreckers guild, did you just
>>>> use
>>>> that book as an opportunity to elaborate on the guild ray ? or was it
>>>> just chance that they required the use of the guild (I have nto played
>>>> the game so do not know if that was in it or not). CIAO,
>>>>
>>>
>>> Well, two of the guilds that have been around in Krondor since we
>>> played
>>> were the Wreckers and the Mudcrafters, who are examples of 
>>> non-magicians
>>> having some magic ability.
>>
>> I don't think I've heard of the Mudcrafters in the books before (if 
>> they've only ever appeared in the game that's not surprising). What do
>> they do?
>>
>
>There was an old spell in the original D&D which was Stone/Mud.  So 
>Steve Abrams came up with the Mudcrafter's guild, which meant you could 
>build a castle or some other building in less time, because you could 
>gather a lot of stone in a place, turn it to mud, have forms set up and 
>shape it like you would concrete, then turn it back into stone.  The 
>cheap version was to start with mud, but you had pray that no one came 
>along and threw a dispell magic on your castle.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>

With all due respect to Steve Abrams, it seems quite a lame guild
<grins> but, hey - what do I know.
But it did make me wonder if you could evisage bringing another magic
using guild to prominence?
Y'know, introduce a new guild that people weren't aware of, or maybe
that nobody knew about 
because it was such a well kept secret?

Mark ;-)



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From: "Andy Holcombe" <andy_wan_kenobi@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Storing Up Your Work
Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 16:33:13 -0500
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Subject: Storing Up Your Work
Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 16:33:13 -0500
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>From: "Paul Whitby" <pjwhitby@ntlworld.com>

>You would sure make alot of fans/readers happy if you wrote one/many 
>book(s)
>with the possible eventuality of those books being published/released
>post-mortem.

I believe Zane Grey wrote similar to this.  He'd belt out several novels in 
a few weeks but only publish one a year.  Consequently, when he died there 
was quite a backlog.  Of course, his novels have been hit and miss with me.


Andy Holcombe
Andy_wan_Kenobi@hotmail.com

"To err is human, but to really foul things up requires a computer."
     -Farmers' Almanac 1978

"I don't give a damn for a man who can only spell a word one way."
     -Mark Twain

"History will be kind to me, for I intend to write it."
     -Winston Churchill

_________________________________________________________________
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Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 00:49:15 +0200
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Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 00:49:15 +0200
From: Ziad El-Hajj <pilgrim@inco.com.lb>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Jigsaw Lady
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Raymond Feist wrote:

> My two science fiction novels, Jigsaw Lady and Jumpstart will both get
> written some day.  But with the sf market being so weak right now, no
> publisher wants to even talk to me about it.  I will probably have to
> write those books on spec, just as I'm having to do with my non-fiction
> book on dancers.

One last question on the topic, if you don't mind. What do you mean by "on
spec"? Does that mean you're going to write the book and then look for
someone to publish it (as opposed to having a contract for an x-book series,
which IIRC is the case with your other books)?
And do you have any information on your nonfiction book you're willing to
share? I don't recall you ever mentionning that project, and the topic sure
is unexpected...

Cheers
Ziad



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From: "Terri Lyn Layman" <terrilyn@fullnet.com>
To: "FeistList \(E-mail\)" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Yay me!
Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 17:00:50 -0500
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From: "Terri Lyn Layman" <terrilyn@fullnet.com>
To: "FeistList \(E-mail\)" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Yay me!
Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 17:00:50 -0500
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Nahh... not that exciting, really...

Just take a look at what I just bought:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1528997206

Whee!

I'm a happy camper.  (Who needs to fill everyone in on the latest goingson
in her life.)

-TerriLyn



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> > Actually, several people have given THE real reason -- the only
> > reason that makes any difference whatsoever: Ray says gunpowder
> > won't work. If Ray says there isn't gunpowder in Midkemia, then
> > unless and until he changes his mind, there simply isn't any
> > gunpowder in Midkemia. End of story.
> 
> So gunpowder is the only technology that has ever existed?

No, but it's the one technology that has been a major part of this discussion to 
this point.

There are other technological discoveries out there -- it all depends on what 
you're willing to consider technology. Winemaking is a form of technology. So is 
building a good wagon, not to mention forging a strong sword, or mining, or 
countless other things.

But I didn't see any of the conversation dwelling on the use of computer 
technology to catalog Macros' library, or running power lines through Krondor, or 
building fighter jets to go bomb Novindus. The main focus of the discussion, to 
this point, was on gunpowder.

As for another post discussing the lack of a "scientific method" in 
Midkemia...what exactly do you base that on? It seems that much of what the 
guilds do with magic is based on the scientific method, just applying it to rules 
that are unique to that world. Just because their technology is at a different 
level than ours, and just because it contains an element ours does not, doesn't 
mean they're lacking in discovery.

How many people in the dark ages understood the scientific method as a defined 
thing? Very few, I'd warrant. How many of them used it, in some form or another, 
despite not knowing it (by experimenting with different ways of forging steel for 
swords, or different horseshoes, or different ways to bake bread, or whatever it 
was they based their livelihood on)? Many, I would argue, since natural human 
curiosity would lead many of the best and brightest to experiment with better 
ways of doing things.

In Midkemia, that "better way" may involve magic, or it may involve what we'd 
call technology. To a Midkemian, how would they recognize the distinction?

In the end, it's still Ray's world to define however he wants. And whatever 
technology he says exists, exists. Whatever he says is forbidden, is forbidden. 
That's pretty simple, isn't it? Or am I missing something obvious here?



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Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 23:33:18 +0100
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From: Grandad Rufus <rufo@bigwig.net>
Subject: Re: Next
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 <5.1.0.14.0.20020412150644.00a6f640@mail.optonline.net>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 23:33:18 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Grandad Rufus <rufo@bigwig.net>
Subject: Re: Next
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In article <5.1.0.14.0.20020412150644.00a6f640@mail.optonline.net>,
Larry Siegel <larry@psihawk.com> writes

Cyber Snippage Has Taken Place ....

>
>You invent a technology... and the magic behind it vanishes..... Technology 
>would replace
>magic... and thats not what this is all about.
>

So *that's* what went wrong with the world. We got technology and lost
Magic.

I thing we got a bum deal #:o(


>
>Larry
>
>My Homepage
>http://www.psihawk.com
>
>Raymond E. Feist FAQ
>http://www.psihawk.com/feist
>

-- 
*******
Grandad Rufus.

It's not that I have a dirty mind, you understand.
It's just that so many of my thoughts leave muddy little footprints...



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References: <F226zdDW6lCPx33E1io0000040d@hotmail.com> <001401c1e123$d89457f0$99519aca@vaio> <3CB65042.1EEB4427@yifan.net> <006a01c1e1f3$690089b0$5ac8a8c0@mercatus.local>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 16:49:50 -0600
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Magic and Technology
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Henrik Grotle wrote:
> 
> The Cho-Ja :)

Point taken, but as you said, they're not exactly what you would call
burden-bearers :)

Craig J. Ries



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 16:56:32 -0600
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Next
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Larry Siegel wrote:
> 
> Yes... I am going extreme... but I am trying to make a point.

I think you failed miserably at whatever point you were trying to make.

If you think I am stating that ANY technology means cell phones and t-1
lines stretching from Crydee to Roldem, then I'll have to laugh at you.

Craig J. Ries



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*** EOOH ***
From: "Julie Wootten" <wootten@xtra.co.nz>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Next
Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 11:19:19 +1200
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I think it was in one of the Hornblower books, where they
were blowing apart a sunken ship with gunpowder to get
at the treasure inside.  They used sealed casks with fuses
threaded through oiled leather sheathes IIRC.

I think the water conditions would be a greater hazard.
Hornblower was doing it in a bay.  Not in the Straits of
Darkness.

Julie.

From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com
> Blast the reefs apart with gunpowder, I think not. It is tricky enough to
> get my flintlock to fire on a misty day, never mind blowing up a reef that
> is underwater with gunpowder. They would have a much easier time doing that
> with magic than gunpowder, I would think. Or are you referring to modern
> smokless gunpowder rhater than blackpowder?
>
> Adieu
>
> Jimmy





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Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 17:52:59 -0700
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 17:52:59 -0700
Subject: Re: Jigsaw Lady
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
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On Friday, April 12, 2002, at 03:49 PM, Ziad El-Hajj wrote:

> Raymond Feist wrote:
>
>> My two science fiction novels, Jigsaw Lady and Jumpstart will both get
>> written some day.  But with the sf market being so weak right now, no
>> publisher wants to even talk to me about it.  I will probably have to
>> write those books on spec, just as I'm having to do with my non-fiction
>> book on dancers.
>
> One last question on the topic, if you don't mind. What do you mean by 
> "on
> spec"? Does that mean you're going to write the book and then look for
> someone to publish it (as opposed to having a contract for an x-book 
> series,
> which IIRC is the case with your other books)?
> And do you have any information on your nonfiction book you're willing 
> to
> share? I don't recall you ever mentionning that project, and the topic 
> sure
> is unexpected...
>
>

"On spec" means "on speculation," i.e. I write it without a publisher or 
contract, then shop it around as a finished product.  At this point, I 
can get a contract simply by saying "I'm going to write three fantasy 
novels," and voila!  There's a contract.  But for something like my 
non-fiction or science-fiction work, I have no track record.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Subject: Re: Honoured Enemy
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 21:03:34 -0400
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From: Shawnee Treadwell <crydee@shawneestar.com>
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I have been trying to catch mention of a potential release date in the US. 
I am sorry if I missed a posting and this is redundant.

Is there one?

Since Shards....what other books have actually been published (anywhere)?

Thank you.
Shawnee



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Subject: Re: Magic and Technology
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From: "Casey Parker" <itzswift@iinet.net.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Magic and Technology
Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 02:40:16 +0800
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I am not sure if this has been mentioned at all but the whole "Magic vs
Technology" scenario has been covered in a relativly recent computer game
(Arcanum), where the magic and technology cancel each other out in a
sense...

I am not saying that It really bothers me whether technology is
in-corporated into Midkemia or not... but its worth a look at Arcanum to
understand how it _could_ work.

Just my 2 cents.



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#insert $0.01 worth

A couple of ideas

I see no reason why steam power could not be invented, and it also seems
reasonable to invent some sort of internal combustion engine running on
Quegan fire oil

Of course, this sort of thing can wait until long after the 5th riftwar :-)

BJS



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Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 16:47:32 EDT
Subject: Re: Feist Contest was Re: Very Own Midkemia
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From: RBlackley@aol.com
Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 16:47:32 EDT
Subject: Re: Feist Contest was Re: Very Own Midkemia
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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Could you maybe write the stories and give the copytight to Ray for the 
stories, thus allowing him to disallow anymore writing by the stories 
creators ie. "this is sequal to my book ot his,"  I'm no treally suggesting 
this, but would it work?
richard

In a message dated 4/12/2002 12:54:37 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
raymond@bittersea.com writes:


> 
> On Friday, April 12, 2002, at 06:58 AM, Some DuDe wrote:
> 
> > Thanks Ray
> > with the contest thing.. would you mind if i helped organize it or 
> > something? or if the entire list got involved
> > sorry about the 'hate' thing i didn't mean it to sound quite to harsh
> > i fully understand why and respect your reasons
> > i was wondering how do you have all these stories already set out
> > you have 5 rift wars of which i think only 1 or 2 are already written 
> > yet the others are stored away in your brain
> > i find this really interesting
> > its almost of you are recounting events that's why we like it so much 
> > because your writing is so well done
> > i really liked the serpent war saga and i was wondering if we will see 
> > more of Roo and erik because they are very popular and likeable
> > also Nakor is a very nice character
> > i would like to make up my own world as you suggest but its simply that 
> > i have no idea where to start
> > perhaps you may share your insight? how did you come across creating 
> > midkemia
> > i understand it was a group effort of sorts with some college friends
> > but they didn't help you with the writing part and as they created the 
> > world your made it seem real
> > maybe you could share with us some of your secrets
> >
> 
> To start with, check out the FAQ.  A lot of your questions get answered 
> there, and if you come across something that isn't, then ask here.
> 
> As for "secrets" there aren't any.  Writing is a skill set like any 
> other, and it's a craft, and (in some cases) an art.  But people think 
> because they got through Middle School able to write a letter home to 
> granny that they should be able to sit down and pen a novel at first 
> bash.  The fact is you practice writing just as you practice drawing or 
> the piano.  If you take a couple of year's of piano lessons, you don't 
> sit down and play Chopin (well, you might, but you problem don't sit 
> down and play it well).
> 
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
> 
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
> stupidity.


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In a message dated 4/12/2002 5:48:50 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
markchaloner@btinternet.com writes:


> Y'know, introduce a new guild that people weren't aware of, or maybe
> that nobody knew about 
> because it was such a well kept secret?

Isn't that the antithesis of a guild?
Richard
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From: Carl Dershem <dershem@cox.net>
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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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>Could you maybe write the stories and give the copytight to Ray for
>the stories, thus allowing him to disallow anymore writing by the
>stories creators ie. "this is sequal to my book ot his,"  I'm not
>really suggesting this, but would it work?
>richard


Nope.  Copyright just doesn't work that way, for reasons that become
obvious after you've seen a few cases involving it.

cd
-- 
Death to all Absolutists!



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From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
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Antithesis? Not really.

Look at that group of assassins in the Empire trilogy and how little was
really known about them.
I don't recall if they were a guild or not, but they would easy fit into
the idea of a guild.

Craig J. Ries



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Subject: Timeline
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From: "Dennis Groome" <nallix@cox.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Timeline
Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 17:20:41 -0500
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can anyone point me to a nice timeline of events in Midkemia, specifically
the first Riftwar?  especially during the events of Magician time often
skips months to years at a time, then overlaps when shifting to another
character's story.  has anyone made an effort to plot them (with whatever
calendar Midkemia uses)?  I would try myself, but I'm very horrible at
plotting times and keeping track of things (I have no less than 4 calendars
in my home and office to help me track things).

-Dennis H. Groome V
ICQ: 11430261 AIM/Yahoo: AmoNympham
Microsoft Messenger: marcus_giovani@hotmail.com





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From: "MChaloner" <markchaloner@btinternet.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Other guilds
Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 12:04:42 +0100
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From: "MChaloner" <markchaloner@btinternet.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Other guilds
Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 12:04:42 +0100
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>In a message dated 4/12/2002 5:48:50 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
>markchaloner@btinternet.com writes:
>>Y'know, introduce a new guild that people weren't aware of, or maybe
>>that nobody knew about 
>>because it was such a well kept secret?
>
>
>Isn't that the antithesis of a guild?
>Richard
>

Well, no - not really.
The Nighthawks weren't widely known about - except by people who knew
people who knew people who knew how to contact them for services. They
were mainly just a rumour & myth to ordinary folk.
I'm thinking along the lines of a guild so secret, that not many people
would know about them.

Mark ;-)



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Subject: Re: Other guilds
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From: "rob tavares" <vze26fdh@verizon.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Other guilds
Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 19:53:01 -0700
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there is, one called the Men who have common sense.

very few
very hidden
very feared

:)
----- Original Message -----
From: "MChaloner" <markchaloner@btinternet.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Saturday, April 13, 2002 4:04 AM
Subject: Other guilds


> In a message dated 4/12/2002 5:48:50 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> markchaloner@btinternet.com writes:
> Y'know, introduce a new guild that people weren't aware of, or maybe
> that nobody knew about
> because it was such a well kept secret?
>
>
> Isn't that the antithesis of a guild?
> Richard
>
>
> Well, no - not really.
> The Nighthawks weren't widely known about - except by people who knew
> people who knew people who knew how to contact them for services. They
> were mainly just a rumour & myth to ordinary folk.
> I'm thinking along the lines of a guild so secret, that not many people
> would know about them.
>
> Mark ;-)
>



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Subject: Re: Magic and Technology - (Quotes)
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From: RBlackley@aol.com
Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 22:38:20 EDT
Subject: Re: Magic and Technology - (Quotes)
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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But isn't the purpose of a guild so that you know of them and trust them to 
do your work instead of having to hire someone you don't know?
richard

In a message dated 4/13/2002 6:15:51 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
cries@yifan.net writes:


> 
> Antithesis? Not really.
> 
> Look at that group of assassins in the Empire trilogy and how little was
> really known about them.
> I don't recall if they were a guild or not, but they would easy fit into
> the idea of a guild.
> 
> Craig J. Ries
> 


-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
"Wit is cultured insolence"
                         Aristotle
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Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 20:42:43 -0600
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Magic and Technology - (Quotes)
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A guild is still a guild, no matter if the whole world knows it exists
or only those members. :)

The definition of a guild is pretty much that the group holds up
standards, etc. While we might not think that thieves and assassins
would care for standards, the Thieves' Guild in Krondor apparently does.
For that guild, everybody knows it exists, but not necessarily the
members are known.

Craig J. Ries



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Subject: Re: Magic and Technology - (Quotes)
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From: "Damian Dyer" <Levic@tsurani.freeuk.com>
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> But isn't the purpose of a guild so that you know of them and trust them to
> do your work instead of having to hire someone you don't know?
> richard


But in this case the theives guild demand certain standards from it's
members
whilst preventing the operations of freelancers that may bring trouble upon
them by, for instance, robbing/murdering the wrong people.

This guild trusts each other (in a very wary way), not the public trusting
them.

Damian



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Subject: Re: Magic and Technology - (Quotes)
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Nope the purpouse of a guild is to protect it's members. Quality control 
is a secondary effect.

Marc aka Caran...

RBlackley@aol.com wrote:

> But isn't the purpose of a guild so that you know of them and trust 
> them to do your work instead of having to hire someone you don't know?
> richard
>
> In a message dated 4/13/2002 6:15:51 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
> cries@yifan.net writes:
>
>
>>
>> Antithesis? Not really.
>>
>> Look at that group of assassins in the Empire trilogy and how little was
>> really known about them.
>> I don't recall if they were a guild or not, but they would easy fit into
>> the idea of a guild.
>>
>> Craig J. Ries
>
>
>
>
> -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
> "Wit is cultured insolence"
>                          Aristotle
> -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
>
>




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>I believe Zane Grey wrote similar to this.  He'd belt out several novels in 
>a few weeks but only publish one a year.  Consequently, when he died there 
>was quite a backlog.  Of course, his novels have been hit and miss with me.
>


If ever you read "Bag of Bones" by Stephen King, you will see that SK
describes this practice, and that very popular authors have used it.
Very handy when you get the writer's block :-)

PJ


See Dave Matthews Band live or win a signed guitar
http://r.lycos.com/r/bmgfly_mail_dmb/http://win.ipromotions.com/lycos_020201/splash.asp 



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*** EOOH ***
From: RBlackley@aol.com
Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 12:10:46 EDT
Subject: Re: Magic and Technology - (Quotes)
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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In a message dated 4/14/2002 4:46:03 AM Eastern Daylight Time, 
Levic@tsurani.freeuk.com writes:


> 
> > But isn't the purpose of a guild so that you know of them and trust them
> to
> > do your work instead of having to hire someone you don't know?
> > richard
> 
> 
> But in this case the theives guild demand certain standards from it's
> members
> whilst preventing the operations of freelancers that may bring trouble upon
> them by, for instance, robbing/murdering the wrong people.
> 
> This guild trusts each other (in a very wary way), not the public trusting
> them.
> 
> Damian
> 

Good Point,
richard
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
"Wit is cultured insolence"
                         Aristotle
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-

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Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 12:12:16 EDT
Subject: Re: Storing Up Your Work
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*** EOOH ***
From: RBlackley@aol.com
Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 12:12:16 EDT
Subject: Re: Storing Up Your Work
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

But what if you write a book and let a friend peek at it, then he goes and 
writes the same book but publishes it first?  Not likely but it could happen.
Richard

In a message dated 4/14/2002 9:45:29 AM Eastern Daylight Time, 
erykel@lycos.com writes:
> 
> 
> >I believe Zane Grey wrote similar to this.  He'd belt out several novels 
> in 
> >a few weeks but only publish one a year.  Consequently, when he died there 
> 
> >was quite a backlog.  Of course, his novels have been hit and miss with 
> me.
> >
> 
> 
> If ever you read "Bag of Bones" by Stephen King, you will see that SK 
> describes this practice, and that very popular authors have used it. Very 
> handy when you get the writer's block :-)
> 
> PJ
> 
> 
> See Dave Matthews Band live or win a signed guitar
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://r.lycos.com/r/bmgfly_mail_dmb/http://win.ipromotions.com/lycos_020201/splash.asp 
> 
> 


-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
"Wit is cultured insolence"
                         Aristotle
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 10:55:43 -0600
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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Don't let a friend peek at it :)

I'm given to wonder about the overall quality of a novel if it was only
written in a few weeks. It seems to me that it takes most authors
atleast a few months to write a full novel. Maybe it just depends on the
subject matter.

Craig J. Ries



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 13:33:21 -0400
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From: Dan Lorey <dl24@cornell.edu>
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Hi everyone,

  Since I'm seeing error messages regarding this at a higher rate
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  Dan Lorey - Feistfans-L List Owner
  



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From: "Andy Holcombe" <andy_wan_kenobi@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Storing Up Your Work
Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 13:03:41 -0500
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From: "Andy Holcombe" <andy_wan_kenobi@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Storing Up Your Work
Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 13:03:41 -0500
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>From: RBlackley@aol.com

>But what if you write a book and let a friend peek at it, then he goes and 
>writes the same book but publishes it first?

As we all learned in gradeschool, cover your work so no one will copy you.

Andy Holcombe
Andy_wan_Kenobi@hotmail.com

"To err is human, but to really foul things up requires a computer."
     -Farmers' Almanac 1978

"I don't give a damn for a man who can only spell a word one way."
     -Mark Twain

"History will be kind to me, for I intend to write it."
     -Winston Churchill

_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com



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From: "Dennis Groome" <nallix@cox.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Used Books
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Dennis Groome" <nallix@cox.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Used Books
Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 21:58:51 -0500
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

there has recently been a campaign by the Author's Guild
(http://www.authorsguild.com) to pressure used booksellers, specifically
Amazon.com to stop selling used books claiming that it damages the industry.
I'm curious, Ray, what do you think of this?  do you support the campaign?
do you feel damaged when I buy and sell used copies of your books?

-Dennis H. Groome V
ICQ: 11430261 AIM/Yahoo: AmoNympham
Microsoft Messenger: marcus_giovani@hotmail.com





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From: "Chad" <feistfan@chadkeffer.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
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Subject: Re: Used Books
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Chad" <feistfan@chadkeffer.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Used Books
Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 23:18:43 -0500
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

So what are they saying?  It's much better to just take that $30 hardcover
novel you just got done reading and toss it in the trash?  Is that suppose
to be better for the industry?  I see where they're coming from.  10
different people may buy the same book and read it (1 bought it new and 9
bought it used), yet the author and publisher only get royalties for it once
when they could have gotten them 10 times.

The average Joe could care less if Stephen King, for example, misses out on
$1.50 royalty.  All Joe knows is that he works a job he hates so he can
scrape by and Stephen King does a job a loves and makes a ton doing it.
Joe, not being in the industry, doesn't know that the majority of authors do
not earn enough from writing to live solely off their writing.

It's the same thing with Napster and the illegal distributing of MP3 music
files online.  The average guy has a chip on his shoulder when it comes to
wealthy people and doesn't really give a damn if some millionaire artist
loses money.  Does he care that his practices hurt more than just the rich
artists?  That the poor struggling artists are hurt as well?  No, because
the only ones he sees complaining about it are the same ones that pulled up
in a limo.

----- Original Message -----
>From: "Dennis Groome" <nallix@cox.net>
>To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
>Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2002 9:58 PM
>Subject: Used Books
>
>
>there has recently been a campaign by the Author's Guild
>(http://www.authorsguild.com) to pressure used booksellers, specifically
>Amazon.com to stop selling used books claiming that it damages the industry.
>I'm curious, Ray, what do you think of this?  do you support the campaign?
>do you feel damaged when I buy and sell used copies of your books?
>
>-Dennis H. Groome V
>ICQ: 11430261 AIM/Yahoo: AmoNympham
>Microsoft Messenger: marcus_giovani@hotmail.com
>






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From: "Chris Bolan" <c.bolan@ecu.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Used Books
Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 12:30:53 +0800
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Chris Bolan" <c.bolan@ecu.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Used Books
Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 12:30:53 +0800
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I agree with Chad, I would of never got into Feist books if I hadn't been
given an
old second hand copy of Magician.

-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Chad
>Sent: Monday, April 15, 2002 12:19 PM
>To: FEISTFANS-L
>Subject: Re: Used Books
>
>
>So what are they saying?  It's much better to just take that $30 hardcover
>novel you just got done reading and toss it in the trash?  Is that suppose
>to be better for the industry?  I see where they're coming from.  10
>different people may buy the same book and read it (1 bought it new and 9
>bought it used), yet the author and publisher only get royalties for it once
>when they could have gotten them 10 times.
>
>The average Joe could care less if Stephen King, for example, misses out on
>$1.50 royalty.  All Joe knows is that he works a job he hates so he can
>scrape by and Stephen King does a job a loves and makes a ton doing it.
>Joe, not being in the industry, doesn't know that the majority of authors do
>not earn enough from writing to live solely off their writing.
>
>It's the same thing with Napster and the illegal distributing of MP3 music
>files online.  The average guy has a chip on his shoulder when it comes to
>wealthy people and doesn't really give a damn if some millionaire artist
>loses money.  Does he care that his practices hurt more than just the rich
>artists?  That the poor struggling artists are hurt as well?  No, because
>the only ones he sees complaining about it are the same ones that pulled up
>in a limo.
>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "Dennis Groome" <nallix@cox.net>
>>To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
>>Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2002 9:58 PM
>>Subject: Used Books
>>
>>
>>there has recently been a campaign by the Author's Guild
>>(http://www.authorsguild.com) to pressure used booksellers, specifically
>>Amazon.com to stop selling used books claiming that it damages the industry.
>>I'm curious, Ray, what do you think of this?  do you support the campaign?
>>do you feel damaged when I buy and sell used copies of your books?
>>
>>-Dennis H. Groome V
>>ICQ: 11430261 AIM/Yahoo: AmoNympham
>>Microsoft Messenger: marcus_giovani@hotmail.com
>>





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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 22:48:28 -0600
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Used Books
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Chad wrote:
> 
> So what are they saying?  It's much better to just take that $30 hardcover
> novel you just got done reading and toss it in the trash?  Is that suppose
> to be better for the industry?

The article I read regarding the situation was kind of interesting.

For one, it is against Amazon.com ONLY. One guy said that it wasn't for
selling used books, per se, but that it was being done from within
Amazon.com's main site, instead of sending you to a separate site
(apparently this is what B&N does, having a separate site for used
books).
"Buy this book new for $6.99 or buy it used for $2.00". That's the way
their website basically reads right now.

It really makes you wonder if Amazon.com is cutting into their own
profits this way, regardless of whether they get a fee from the sale.

But, even the guy who is against Amazon.com said, selling a used book in
of itself isn't a bad thing nor should it be discouraged.

> It's the same thing with Napster and the illegal distributing of MP3 music
> files online.

I'd really say that the Napster situation is a completely different
argument.

If I bought a used book through Amazon.com, well, I'm atleast paying
something for it and not getting it totally free.
Most likely, the person selling me the book has bought it as well,
probably new.

Again, not the case with Napster, where a file I download for free I can
turn around and let somebody else download.

Craig J. Ries



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Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 00:38:22 -0700
Subject: Re: Used Books
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Sunday, April 14, 2002, at 07:58 PM, Dennis Groome wrote:

> there has recently been a campaign by the Author's Guild
> (http://www.authorsguild.com) to pressure used booksellers, specifically
> Amazon.com to stop selling used books claiming that it damages the 
> industry.
> I'm curious, Ray, what do you think of this?  do you support the 
> campaign?
> do you feel damaged when I buy and sell used copies of your books?
>

The Author's Guild is upset for the following reason:

Amazon is giving an edge to used books.  It's complex, but here's the 
simple version.

There are ways for Amazon to make money without any inventory, mostly by 
having a "hook-up" between a buyer and seller of a certain title.

And they have some used inventory.

This, in and of itself is not a bad thing.  I used to shop used stores 
all the time, which is great for out-of-print stuff.

But the problem is as follows.  You find a title and you call it up to 
check it out, read the stuff, and decide to buy it.  Suddenly it says, 
"You can buy this book new for $29.95 or used for $14.95."  I don't get 
a royalty on a used book.  They don't even have the used book in their 
inventory (but they don't tell you this) someone who has just read it 
has clicked the "do you have this book to sell" button and Amazon is 
putting you together with a seller.  They get a small commission without 
having done anything except stick up the site, and rob me of a royalty.

It's bad, in the long run, because if sales of new copies dwindle, fewer 
and fewer writers will be writing new books.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Used Books
Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 15:43:46 +0800
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Arguing against used book sales is silly. You might as well argue
libraries shouldn't exist either for similar reasons.

Dave



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From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: Storing Up Your Work
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Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 09:12:59 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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At 05:55 PM 4/14/02, Craig J. Ries wrote:
>I'm given to wonder about the overall quality of a novel if it was only
>written in a few weeks. It seems to me that it takes most authors

I dunno.  You Tell Me:
http://www.ferkel.co.uk/wdbridge/tbt/SOS_r3.pdf
Which I wrote (68,000 words) in one month.  I've done some rewrites, however
so I don't know if it counts.

rip



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From: Linda Simpson <esimpson-linda@powerup.com.au>
Subject: Writing Styles - Question for Ray
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Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 19:19:59
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Linda Simpson <esimpson-linda@powerup.com.au>
Subject: Writing Styles - Question for Ray
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Hi, 

*delurking for a bit*

I recently read 'The Seer King' by Chris Bunch, and thought that he wrote
it fairly well in first person.  ie, 'I saw the sky into the sea'

Anyway, I was told (by an English teacher a few years ago) that writing in
first person was easy, writing it well was hard, which is why there's so
much 3rd person books around.  My question to Ray, is have you ever tried
to write a story in the first person, and if you have, was it easy for you?
 Also what books did you like that were written in this style?  Anyone else
want to venture an opinion on either books they've read/ written?  

Linda

*back to lurking again*



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Please un-subscribe me from this list.



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Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 14:12:13 -0700
Subject: Re: Writing Styles - Question for Ray
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Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 14:12:13 -0700
Subject: Re: Writing Styles - Question for Ray
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Monday, April 15, 2002, at 07:19 PM, Linda Simpson wrote:

> Hi,
>
> *delurking for a bit*
>
> I recently read 'The Seer King' by Chris Bunch, and thought that he 
> wrote
> it fairly well in first person.  ie, 'I saw the sky into the sea'
>
> Anyway, I was told (by an English teacher a few years ago) that writing 
> in
> first person was easy, writing it well was hard, which is why there's so
> much 3rd person books around.  My question to Ray, is have you ever 
> tried
> to write a story in the first person, and if you have, was it easy for 
> you?
>  Also what books did you like that were written in this style?  Anyone 
> else
> want to venture an opinion on either books they've read/ written?

It's a common opinion among lit teachers.  Personally, I think that 
writing anything well is hard.  First person requires less choices, 
which is the "easy" part.  Getting the reader all the information is 
difficult, because you have only the narrator's point-of-view.  The best 
book to do this, IMHO, is Fitzgerrald's The Great Gatsby, in which the 
character of Nick is the narrator, and the way in which Nick learns all 
the details of the story (especially the scene recounting Jordan's 
death) are brilliant.

Best, R.E.F.

-----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 17:39:13 EDT
Subject: TVs (OT)
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*** EOOH ***
From: Smenick@aol.com
Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 17:39:13 EDT
Subject: TVs (OT)
To: feistfans-l@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I hate to start an off-topic discussion, but...
I know Ray to be somewhat of an AV guy and I would like some other opinions 
as well. I am thinking of purchasing a 27' Sony WEGA or the like. MY problem 
is I don't see a consistency in quality across the Sonys TVs or other brands. 
I have heard some horror stories about the Sonys, with pink lines and picture 
distortion, not to mention the tube conking out after a short time. Does 
anyone have a flat screen TV? 
If so, what kind and what is your opinion of these reports. You can reply to 
me off list if you wish. Ray, what are your thoughts.  I am not really 
looking to spend more than 800 bucks as HDTV won't be full-scale for 4 or 5 
more years. 

-Sean



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From: Joel Rosenberg <joelr@ellegon.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Writing Styles - Question for Ray
Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 17:19:36 -0500
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*** EOOH ***
From: Joel Rosenberg <joelr@ellegon.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Writing Styles - Question for Ray
Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 17:19:36 -0500
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

On Monday 15 April 2002 04:12 pm, Raymond Feist wrote:
> On Monday, April 15, 2002, at 07:19 PM, Linda Simpson wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > *delurking for a bit*
> >
> > I recently read 'The Seer King' by Chris Bunch, and thought that he
> > wrote
> > it fairly well in first person.  ie, 'I saw the sky into the sea'
> >
> > Anyway, I was told (by an English teacher a few years ago) that writing
> > in
> > first person was easy, writing it well was hard, which is why there's so
> > much 3rd person books around.  My question to Ray, is have you ever
> > tried
> > to write a story in the first person, and if you have, was it easy for
> > you?
> >  Also what books did you like that were written in this style?  Anyone
> > else
> > want to venture an opinion on either books they've read/ written?
>
> It's a common opinion among lit teachers.  Personally, I think that
> writing anything well is hard.  First person requires less choices,
> which is the "easy" part. 

And it also closes off some options -- for instance, easily getting 
information to the reader that the protagonist doesn't have -- which is the 
hard part.   

Then again, you only have to get one auctorial voice right, which is 
theoretically easier.   (Doesn't help, either way, with dialogue, but that's 
another problem.)  



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*** EOOH ***
From: "Chris Smith" <cjs94@zepler.org.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 23:30:04 +0100
Subject: Re: Writing Styles - Question for Ray
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On Monday, April 15, 2002, at 07:19 PM, Linda Simpson wrote:

> I recently read 'The Seer King' by Chris Bunch, and thought that he 
> wrote
> it fairly well in first person.  ie, 'I saw the sky into the sea'
>
> Anyway, I was told (by an English teacher a few years ago) that writing 
> in
> first person was easy, writing it well was hard, which is why there's so
> much 3rd person books around.  My question to Ray, is have you ever 
> tried
> to write a story in the first person, and if you have, was it easy for 
> you?
>  Also what books did you like that were written in this style?  Anyone 
> else
> want to venture an opinion on either books they've read/ written?

The best first-person author I have come across is, IMHO, Desmond Bagley, who wrote a number of spy/adventure style books. I thought he 
wrote first-person very well, I enjoyed his books a great deal.

Chris
-- 
Chris Smith <cjs94@zepler.org.uk>



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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
References: <25.26037b61.29eca281@aol.com>
Subject: Re: TVs (OT)
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Nevyn" <alien4@wasp.net.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: TVs (OT)
Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 06:30:58 +0800
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Go JVC oy Yam.

Thanks,
             Nevyn

________________________________________________________________________

Not every love, but only those which have a noble purpose, are noble and
worthy of praise.

- Plato
________________________________________________________________________

"Knowledge speaks; Wisdom listens."
________________________________________________________________________
----- Original Message -----
From: <Smenick@aol.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <feistfans-l@cornell.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, April 16, 2002 5:39 AM
Subject: TVs (OT)


> I hate to start an off-topic discussion, but...
> I know Ray to be somewhat of an AV guy and I would like some other opinions
> as well. I am thinking of purchasing a 27' Sony WEGA or the like. MY problem
> is I don't see a consistency in quality across the Sonys TVs or other brands.
> I have heard some horror stories about the Sonys, with pink lines and picture
> distortion, not to mention the tube conking out after a short time. Does
> anyone have a flat screen TV?
> If so, what kind and what is your opinion of these reports. You can reply to
> me off list if you wish. Ray, what are your thoughts.  I am not really
> looking to spend more than 800 bucks as HDTV won't be full-scale for 4 or 5
> more years.
>
> -Sean
>



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Subject: Re: Storing Up Your Work
References: <1a6.b79a86.29eb0460@aol.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20020415091102.025db260@mail.swindon.wrsec.fr>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 16:48:34 -0600
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Storing Up Your Work
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Richard Williamson wrote:
> 
> I dunno.  You Tell Me:

Sorry, I'll have to pass. While I like the .pdf format, I usually print
off anything a few pages long instead of trying to read it on my
computer.
If it's longer than a few pages, it usually remains unread.

I've heard about a contest that is run from one website around August or
September, where you write as much as you can for a story in one
weekend. It is all "word of honor" on if you actually wrote it during
that time period, but you're allowed to do your outline and everything
beforehand.
I've thought about giving it a try sometime :)

Craig J. Ries



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Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 16:51:21 -0600
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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Used Books
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 16:51:21 -0600
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Used Books
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

David Pengelley wrote:
> 
> Arguing against used book sales is silly. You might as well argue
> libraries shouldn't exist either for similar reasons.

You are missing the point.

Neither Ray nor the person who has started this campaign has said that
used books are evil or anything, but it's Amazon.com's tactics that are
harmful.

As both Ray and myself have both stated, it's the "Buy it new for X or
buy it used for dirt cheap right now instead" tactic that Amazon.com is
using to basically tell people that they don't have to buy it new (I
prefer new myself).

Craig J. Ries



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I was just wondering if Ray was ever going to bring Oywn Belfote back
into future novels?

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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 21:01:02 -0400
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Shawnee Treadwell <crydee@shawneestar.com>
Subject: trying again.
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I have been trying to catch mention of a potential release date for 
Honoured Enemy in the US. I am sorry if I missed a posting and this is 
redundant. I really have tried to look elsewhere for this and experience 
has told me that Amazon and other sites are unreliable when it comes to 
release dates.

So....

Is there one?
I'm trying to figure out if I should give up waiting and just order from 
the UK.

Since Shards....what other books have actually been published (anywhere)?

Thank you.
Shawnee



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*** EOOH ***
From: "Cameron Duncan" <cduncan@atinera.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: trying again.
Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 11:13:05 +1000
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Unfortunately, you won't get Honoured Enemy in the US.  You will have to
order it from a UK bookshop/online store.  There were apparently issues
with Ray's publisher in the US which prevented the release there.  This will
also be the case with the latest book Murder in Lamut (due out UK/Australia
sometime in May/June).

Since Shards, there have also been the 3 Krondor books -
Krondor The Betrayal, Krondor the Assassins, Krondor Tear of the Gods.
These were all release in the US.

Hope this helps.  I'm sure others on the list can provide more detail if
required.  It is also worth checking John's site www.crydee.com for release
information.

Cameron

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Shawnee Treadwell
> Sent: Tuesday, April 16, 2002 11:01
> To: FEISTFANS-L
> Subject: trying again.
>
>
> I have been trying to catch mention of a potential release date for
> Honoured Enemy in the US. I am sorry if I missed a posting and this is
> redundant. I really have tried to look elsewhere for this and experience
> has told me that Amazon and other sites are unreliable when it comes to
> release dates.
>
> So....
>
> Is there one?
> I'm trying to figure out if I should give up waiting and just order from
> the UK.
>
> Since Shards....what other books have actually been published (anywhere)?
>
> Thank you.
> Shawnee
>
>



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Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 21:12:58 -0400
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Shawnee Treadwell <crydee@shawneestar.com>
Subject: Re: Magic and Technology - (Quotes)
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My two cents follow:

The best example that I know of a science fiction book that blends Sci-fi 
and fantasy, but truly defines what it means to be "science fiction" is 
Hyperion by Dan Simmons. (The rest of the series is quite good as well).

If you want to read a book that deals with technology...and the need (or 
lack thereof) for it in society, with threads about our dependency on it, 
the conflict between religion and science, as well as the choice in society 
to look at technology and decide even though you have the ability to create 
something...that doesn't mean that you necessarily have to develop/use it, 
I don't think that you will find a better (or more enjoyable) example.

~Shawnee

PS. Sensitivity warning: the Hyperion series is very explicit. 



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Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 18:15:33 -0700
From: Carl Dershem <dershem@cox.net>
Organization: Project Selene
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Storing Up Your Work
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Richard Williamson wrote:
> 
> At 05:55 PM 4/14/02, Craig J. Ries wrote:
> >I'm given to wonder about the overall quality of a novel if it was only
> >written in a few weeks. It seems to me that it takes most authors
> 
> I dunno.  You Tell Me:
> http://www.ferkel.co.uk/wdbridge/tbt/SOS_r3.pdf
> Which I wrote (68,000 words) in one month.  I've done some rewrites, however
> so I don't know if it counts.

DIdn't read it, but:  Heinlen used to write a new book in a couple of
weeks, and did so only when he had a mortgage payment to make or a new
car to buy.

In other words, it varies enormously from writer to writer.

cd
-- 
Death to all Absolutists!



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*** EOOH ***
From: JEEPMONSTER69@aol.com
Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 21:30:48 EDT
Subject: Re: trying again.
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

In a message dated 4/15/2002 9:29:38 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
cduncan@atinera.com.au writes:


> Unfortunately, you won't get Honoured Enemy in the US.  You will have to
> order it from a UK bookshop/online store.  There were apparently issues
> with Ray's publisher in the US which prevented the release there.  This will
> also be the case with the latest book Murder in Lamut (due out UK/Australia
> sometime in May/June).
> 
> Since Shards, there have also been the 3 Krondor books -
> Krondor The Betrayal, Krondor the Assassins, Krondor Tear of the Gods.
> These were all release in the US.
> 
> Hope this helps.  I'm sure others on the list can provide more detail if
> required.  It is also worth checking John's site www.crydee.com for release
> information.
> 
> Cameron
> 

                   Why wont it be released in the US? I really would like to 
read it, and not have to order it.

                                     Peace,

                                                 Matt

"Lets Roll."- Todd Beamer
USA, Muthafacko!

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Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 18:44:02 -0700
Subject: Re: Belfote
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 18:44:02 -0700
Subject: Re: Belfote
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Monday, April 15, 2002, at 05:52 PM, Max Levine wrote:

> I was just wondering if Ray was ever going to bring Oywn Belfote back 
> into future novels?

Nope.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.

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Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 18:46:59 -0700
Subject: Re: TVs (OT)
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 18:46:59 -0700
Subject: Re: TVs (OT)
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Monday, April 15, 2002, at 02:39 PM, Smenick@aol.com wrote:

> I hate to start an off-topic discussion, but...
> I know Ray to be somewhat of an AV guy and I would like some other 
> opinions
> as well. I am thinking of purchasing a 27' Sony WEGA or the like. MY 
> problem
> is I don't see a consistency in quality across the Sonys TVs or other 
> brands.
> I have heard some horror stories about the Sonys, with pink lines and 
> picture
> distortion, not to mention the tube conking out after a short time. Does
> anyone have a flat screen TV?
> If so, what kind and what is your opinion of these reports. You can 
> reply to
> me off list if you wish. Ray, what are your thoughts.  I am not really
> looking to spend more than 800 bucks as HDTV won't be full-scale for 4 
> or 5
> more years.
>
>

Sony WEGA is very good.  You might also look at their non-WEGA sets if 
you're not ready to pop for HD, but want to in a couple of years.  I 
have both a Mitsubishi 56" 16x9 HDTV and a Panasonic 32" HDTV 4x3 direct 
tube and both are terrific (about $2,000 and $1,200 respectively).  You 
might think about popping the extra $400 for the Panasonic which you can 
turn HDTV with an outboard adapter down the road.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 19:59:39 -0600
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
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Umm, Cameron said in his e-mail as to why Honoured Enemy won't/isn't
released in the US.

Craig J. Ries



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*** EOOH ***
From: "Cameron Duncan" <cduncan@atinera.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: trying again.
Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 12:39:19 +1000
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I did some digging around in my "saved Feist list" mail folder and
found the following explanation from Ray dated 24/5/01.  It pretty much
explains why Honoured Enemy isn't available in the US.


>This is not an "official" announcement, but rather an update.
>
>At this time I have been unable to reach any agreement with Avon/EOS for
>the publication of the Legends of the Riftwar in the US. Given the
>time frame, this guarantees there will be no US publication of Honored
>Enemy anytime soon, let alone in concert with the publication in the UK.
>
>So, for the diehards in the U.S. and Canada out there, Amazon.com.uk is
>probably your only vehicle for getting the book this year.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>
>----
>Never attribute to malice what can be satisfactorily explained away by stupidity

Cameron

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Craig J. Ries
> Sent: Tuesday, April 16, 2002 12:00
> To: FEISTFANS-L
> Subject: Re: trying again.
>
>
> Umm, Cameron said in his e-mail as to why Honoured Enemy won't/isn't
> released in the US.
>
> Craig J. Ries
>
>



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From: "Andy Holcombe" <andy_wan_kenobi@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Writing Styles - First Person
Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 22:19:29 -0500
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*** EOOH ***
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From: "Andy Holcombe" <andy_wan_kenobi@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re: Writing Styles - First Person
Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 22:19:29 -0500
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>On Monday, April 15, 2002, at 07:19 PM, Linda Simpson wrote:
>
>Anyway, I was told (by an English teacher a few years ago) that writing >in 
>first person was easy, writing it well was hard, which is why >there's so 
>much 3rd person books around.

Kiny Friedman's mystery novels are written in first person, and it works 
wonderfully.  I heartily recommend them.  Very hilarious and not for the 
easily offened.  Of course, this is mystery turned on its ear.  Holmes would 
probably be appalled.  I believe that Mike Stackpole's Star Wars novel "I, 
Jedi" was written in the first person as well.  It worked, but his 
third-person novels are better, in my opinion.


Andy Holcombe
Andy_wan_Kenobi@hotmail.com

"To err is human, but to really foul things up requires a computer."
     -Farmers' Almanac 1978

"I don't give a damn for a man who can only spell a word one way."
     -Mark Twain

"History will be kind to me, for I intend to write it."
     -Winston Churchill

_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com



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Craig J. Ries wrote:

> David Pengelley wrote:
> 
>>Arguing against used book sales is silly. You might as well argue
>>libraries shouldn't exist either for similar reasons.
>>
> 
> You are missing the point.
> 
> Neither Ray nor the person who has started this campaign has said that
> used books are evil or anything, but it's Amazon.com's tactics that are
> harmful.
> 
> As both Ray and myself have both stated, it's the "Buy it new for X or
> buy it used for dirt cheap right now instead" tactic that Amazon.com is
> using to basically tell people that they don't have to buy it new (I
> prefer new myself).
> 


   Well, sort of. Amazon's not telling anyone anything they don't 
already know. Everyone knows they could buy just about anything that 
exists either new or used.

   Until now, new book stores B&N, Borders, etc didn't sell used books, 
and if they did, did so in a way that "under presented" the used books. 
This made it more convenient for shoppers to just buy new. They've built 
up in our minds distinction of convenience in buying new. Used book 
stores are harder to find and if they do happen to have what you're 
looking for it's usually difficult to find. Used books in online 
auctions really aren't worth the effort in general. Why spend two days 
hopeing your bid of $9.95 (+ shipping) wins when for $29.95 (+ tax) you 
can have a new one right now. Used book stores and auctions don't 
typically carry newly released books.

   This has several advantages for everyone (except the consumer in the 
short run). The author gets a royalty for the new book (author wins, 
publisher wins,  etc), the markup on a new book is higher (the retailer 
wins) and the consumer gets screwed (in the short run) because they're 
paying twice or more for exactly the same product (not counting book 
condition which only matters to collectors).

   Now, I keep mentioning "in the short run/term". This is because Ray 
(and the authors raising the stink w/ Amazon) have a valid point. It's a 
matter of macro-economics. The less we (consumers) spend on new books, 
the less money in the book writing industry. The less money in the 
industry, the fewer publishers & writers. The fewer publishers & 
writers, the fewer the books.

   In real terms, this means weaker genres are completely eliminated 
from being published. Stronger ones may survive, but dwindle to one or 
two authors. Imagine fantasy only having one published author (Jordan, 
and his Wheel of Time series are probably what we'd get). Personally, I 
got sick of WoT by book five.

   It's basically the <unamed superstore> effect. The <unamed 
superstore> moves into town, carries everything and undercuts everyone's 
prices. Consumers, being strongly motivated by price and convenience, 
stop shopping at all the other little stores, which quickly go out of 
business. Now, you only have one choice: shop at <the unamed superstore> 
(which promptly raises its prices to finance moving into other areas, 
rinse repeat). Amazon's doing effectively the same thing. The methods 
are different, but the effect will be the same. I repeat, consumers are 
motivated by price and convenience. By offering a consumer the same 
product (effectively) for two different prices (at the same convenience 
level), the consumer will always choose the cheaper option. Wouldn't you?

   Hmmmm, rant mode off ...

Bret







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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 22:06:16 -0600
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Used Books
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Bret Robideaux wrote:
> 
> Imagine fantasy only having one published author (Jordan,
> and his Wheel of Time series are probably what we'd get). Personally, I
> got sick of WoT by book five.

*sarcasm* Glad to see you have faith in all the other authors out there.

Craig J. Ries



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 23:46:10 -0500
From: Bret Robideaux <bretr@alliances.org>
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Raymond Feist wrote:

[snip]

 > It's bad, in the long run, because if sales of new copies dwindle,
 > fewer  and fewer writers will be writing new books.


   I reversed the order of these two statements. I just finished a
long rant defending (and long-windedly going into more detail) this
position.

   While I fully agree with your position (it's short sighted, and will
cause serious repercussions down the road), the following statement 
isn't sitting well with me.

 > They get a small commission without  having done anything except
 > stick up the site, and rob me of a royalty.
 >

   While I'm not a big fan of what Amazon is doing (and I'm certain 
you're even less so), I'm fairly sure that what they're doing is not 
illegal. In fact, besides being short sighted, and possibly even stupid, 
I don't think it could even be labeled immoral or unethical (not that 
those two issues ever stopped marketing people before).

   For you to claim they're robbing you (i.e. committing a crime) seems 
out of character.

   It's 11:30 pm and (with two kids and my job the way it is right now) 
sleep is frequently a stranger, so I'm not going to try to second guess 
your meaning with my muddled thinking. I was wondering (hoping) you'd 
clarify your meaning there.

Thanks,
Bret



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 23:54:26 -0500
From: Bret Robideaux <bretr@alliances.org>
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Craig J. Ries wrote:

> Bret Robideaux wrote:
> 
>>Imagine fantasy only having one published author (Jordan,
>>and his Wheel of Time series are probably what we'd get). Personally, I
>>got sick of WoT by book five.
>>
> 
> *sarcasm* Glad to see you have faith in all the other authors out there.
> 
> Craig J. Ries
> 


   *smile* I just picked the fantasy author who seems (to me) to sell 
the most books. I'm pretty sure Jordan sells more than Ray, and that was 
my point. If fantasy dropped to one author, it probably wouldn't be Ray 
... and that would suck.

   Personally, if there was only one fantasy author left and it was Ray, 
then I wouldn't care a whit, because his books are the only ones I buy 
for entertainment anyway (well, in the last several years at least). All 
the other books I buy are technical.

Bret




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From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Used Books
Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 14:21:50 +0800
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*** EOOH ***
From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Used Books
Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 14:21:50 +0800
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No, I got that point. And I agree that Amazon is being silly. I was
meaning in the more general context if you were going to say used book
sales are bad. I reaised my comment was open for the interpretation that
I was a moron and missing the current point re Amazon, but not until
shortly after posting (don't ya just hate that).

So yes, I agree Amazon are doing bad things - but my comment was
directed at the greater used book sales discussion.

David

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu 
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Craig J. Ries
> Sent: Tuesday, 16 April 2002 6:51 AM
> To: FEISTFANS-L
> Subject: Re: Used Books
> 
> 
> David Pengelley wrote:
> > 
> > Arguing against used book sales is silly. You might as well argue
> > libraries shouldn't exist either for similar reasons.
> 
> You are missing the point.
> 
> Neither Ray nor the person who has started this campaign has said that
> used books are evil or anything, but it's Amazon.com's 
> tactics that are
> harmful.
> 
> As both Ray and myself have both stated, it's the "Buy it new for X or
> buy it used for dirt cheap right now instead" tactic that 
> Amazon.com is
> using to basically tell people that they don't have to buy it new (I
> prefer new myself).
> 
> Craig J. Ries
> 



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From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Writing Styles - Question for Ray
Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 14:33:15 +0800
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*** EOOH ***
From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Writing Styles - Question for Ray
Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 14:33:15 +0800
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The Albion series by Stephen Lawhead were done reasonably well in the
first person. What made things really interesting was in the second book
we changed first person to another character, and then the third book he
reverted to the original character again.

David

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu 
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Linda Simpson
> Sent: Monday, 15 April 2002 7:20 PM
> To: FEISTFANS-L
> Subject: Writing Styles - Question for Ray
> 
> 
> Hi, 
> 
> *delurking for a bit*
> 
> I recently read 'The Seer King' by Chris Bunch, and thought 
> that he wrote
> it fairly well in first person.  ie, 'I saw the sky into the sea'
> 
> Anyway, I was told (by an English teacher a few years ago) 
> that writing in
> first person was easy, writing it well was hard, which is why 
> there's so
> much 3rd person books around.  My question to Ray, is have 
> you ever tried
> to write a story in the first person, and if you have, was it 
> easy for you?
>  Also what books did you like that were written in this 
> style?  Anyone else
> want to venture an opinion on either books they've read/ written?  
> 
> Linda
> 
> *back to lurking again*
> 



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From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: Storing Up Your Work
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Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 08:50:15 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: Storing Up Your Work
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At 11:48 PM 4/15/02, Craig J. Ries wrote:
>I've heard about a contest that is run from one website around August or
>September, where you write as much as you can for a story in one
>weekend. It is all "word of honor" on if you actually wrote it during
>that time period, but you're allowed to do your outline and everything
>beforehand.
>I've thought about giving it a try sometime :)

It's November.  NaNoWriMo ([inter-]National Novel Writing Month).  The
website is www.nanowrimo.com .  

50,000 words, one month.  And if you are doing an outline beforehand,
you haven't been following directions.

The link I posted was my work done under NanoWrimo 2001.  My entire
pre-work was a single pun, ("Nur Ungarn" == Only if pressed, or only
involuntarily), a genre (Space Opera Serial, thus the title, SOS),
and thirty chapter titles (one per day = 1,667 words per day).

Nur became the primary character (half the story is first person
recounting, the other half is third person), the Nur Ungarn became
the spaceship.  The rest just happened...

rip



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Subject: Re: Used Books
Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 15:55:58 +0200
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From: "Peter Schmitt" <Aragos2@web.de>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Used Books
Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 15:55:58 +0200
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Hi out there ;)

This is my first post on this list, so don't be offended by my writing stile
and my English, I'm from Germany and learned English by Ray's books.
(Thanks!) Feel free to correct me, off list.
On topic:
Here in Germany we have a restriction on bookprices, meaning every book has
to be sold for a certain price, for some years I think. This was installed
to prevent your <unnamed superbokstore> from bashing the small shops. (This
is used for al German books, even if they are sold online.)

Amazon's campaign is certainly the wrong way but I don't think it will have
a major affect on the market - there are just too many different books and I
wouldn't sell my books, why should I? I want to read them some times
maybe...

Aragos

*No sig yet*


----- Original Message -----
From: "Bret Robideaux" <bretr@alliances.org>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, April 16, 2002 5:55 AM
Subject: Re: Used Books


>
>
> Craig J. Ries wrote:
>
> > David Pengelley wrote:
> >
> >>Arguing against used book sales is silly. You might as well argue
> >>libraries shouldn't exist either for similar reasons.
> >>
> >
> > You are missing the point.
> >
> > Neither Ray nor the person who has started this campaign has said that
> > used books are evil or anything, but it's Amazon.com's tactics that are
> > harmful.
> >
> > As both Ray and myself have both stated, it's the "Buy it new for X or
> > buy it used for dirt cheap right now instead" tactic that Amazon.com is
> > using to basically tell people that they don't have to buy it new (I
> > prefer new myself).
> >
>
>
>    Well, sort of. Amazon's not telling anyone anything they don't
> already know. Everyone knows they could buy just about anything that
> exists either new or used.
>
>    Until now, new book stores B&N, Borders, etc didn't sell used books,
> and if they did, did so in a way that "under presented" the used books.
> This made it more convenient for shoppers to just buy new. They've built
> up in our minds distinction of convenience in buying new. Used book
> stores are harder to find and if they do happen to have what you're
> looking for it's usually difficult to find. Used books in online
> auctions really aren't worth the effort in general. Why spend two days
> hopeing your bid of $9.95 (+ shipping) wins when for $29.95 (+ tax) you
> can have a new one right now. Used book stores and auctions don't
> typically carry newly released books.
>
>    This has several advantages for everyone (except the consumer in the
> short run). The author gets a royalty for the new book (author wins,
> publisher wins,  etc), the markup on a new book is higher (the retailer
> wins) and the consumer gets screwed (in the short run) because they're
> paying twice or more for exactly the same product (not counting book
> condition which only matters to collectors).
>
>    Now, I keep mentioning "in the short run/term". This is because Ray
> (and the authors raising the stink w/ Amazon) have a valid point. It's a
> matter of macro-economics. The less we (consumers) spend on new books,
> the less money in the book writing industry. The less money in the
> industry, the fewer publishers & writers. The fewer publishers &
> writers, the fewer the books.
>
>    In real terms, this means weaker genres are completely eliminated
> from being published. Stronger ones may survive, but dwindle to one or
> two authors. Imagine fantasy only having one published author (Jordan,
> and his Wheel of Time series are probably what we'd get). Personally, I
> got sick of WoT by book five.
>
>    It's basically the <unamed superstore> effect. The <unamed
> superstore> moves into town, carries everything and undercuts everyone's
> prices. Consumers, being strongly motivated by price and convenience,
> stop shopping at all the other little stores, which quickly go out of
> business. Now, you only have one choice: shop at <the unamed superstore>
> (which promptly raises its prices to finance moving into other areas,
> rinse repeat). Amazon's doing effectively the same thing. The methods
> are different, but the effect will be the same. I repeat, consumers are
> motivated by price and convenience. By offering a consumer the same
> product (effectively) for two different prices (at the same convenience
> level), the consumer will always choose the cheaper option. Wouldn't you?
>
>    Hmmmm, rant mode off ...
>
> Bret
>
>
>
>
>



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Subject: Magic/technology/civilisation
Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 21:57:30 +0800
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From: "Alan Noonan" <alannoonan@iinet.net.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Magic/technology/civilisation
Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 21:57:30 +0800
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 People, people, people....

Take a wholistic view.

A culture that develops Barrett's coffeehouse,( and dare I hope Devonshire
teas), before gunpowder and technology deserves our highest praises. Let it
be our model to strive for!!

Send an email to the Middle East and arrange elevenses without any weapons
and maybe.... just maybe... its a step forward.

Alan Noonan.
----- Original Message -----
From: Julie Wootten <wootten@xtra.co.nz>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Saturday, April 13, 2002 7:19 AM
Subject: Re: Next


> I think it was in one of the Hornblower books, where they
> were blowing apart a sunken ship with gunpowder to get
> at the treasure inside.  They used sealed casks with fuses
> threaded through oiled leather sheathes IIRC.
>
> I think the water conditions would be a greater hazard.
> Hornblower was doing it in a bay.  Not in the Straits of
> Darkness.
>
> Julie.
>
> From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com
> > Blast the reefs apart with gunpowder, I think not. It is tricky enough to
> > get my flintlock to fire on a misty day, never mind blowing up a reef that
> > is underwater with gunpowder. They would have a much easier time doing
> that
> > with magic than gunpowder, I would think. Or are you referring to modern
> > smokless gunpowder rhater than blackpowder?
> >
> > Adieu
> >
> > Jimmy
>
>
>
>
>



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Message-ID: <60.1e670b3f.29ed8ee4@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 10:27:48 EDT
Subject: (OT) TV
To: feistfans-l@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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From: Smenick@aol.com
Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 10:27:48 EDT
Subject: (OT) TV
To: feistfans-l@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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>Sony WEGA is very good.  You might also look at their non-WEGA sets if 
>you're not ready to pop for HD, but want to in a couple of years.  I 
>have both a Mitsubishi 56" 16x9 HDTV and a Panasonic 32" HDTV 4x3 direct 
>tube and both are terrific (about $2,000 and $1,200 respectively).  You 
>might think about popping the extra $400 for the Panasonic which you can 
>turn HDTV with an outboard adapter down the road.
>
>Best, R.E.F.


I found a HDTV 27' from Samsung with a ton of inputs for around the price I 
am looking at. Has anyone ever bought a Samsung TV? I know they make decent 
phones and their plasmas don't seem that bad.
 But I am wary of a TV from Samsung. Should I be?

-Sean



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Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 07:36:44 -0700
Subject: Re: Used Books
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Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 07:36:44 -0700
Subject: Re: Used Books
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
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On Monday, April 15, 2002, at 09:54 PM, Bret Robideaux wrote:

>
>
> Craig J. Ries wrote:
>
>> Bret Robideaux wrote:
>>> Imagine fantasy only having one published author (Jordan,
>>> and his Wheel of Time series are probably what we'd get). 
>>> Personally, I
>>> got sick of WoT by book five.
>>>
>> *sarcasm* Glad to see you have faith in all the other authors out 
>> there.
>> Craig J. Ries
>
>
>   *smile* I just picked the fantasy author who seems (to me) to sell 
> the most books. I'm pretty sure Jordan sells more than Ray, and that 
> was my point. If fantasy dropped to one author, it probably wouldn't be 
> Ray ... and that would suck.

Depends on where.  In the US it would be Jim Rigney (Robert Jordan).  In 
Britian it would be Terry Pratchett.  In Australia it would be me.

>
>   Personally, if there was only one fantasy author left and it was Ray, 
> then I wouldn't care a whit, because his books are the only ones I buy 
> for entertainment anyway (well, in the last several years at least). 
> All the other books I buy are technical.
>

Too bad.  There's some really good stuff out there.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 07:35:32 -0700
Subject: Re: Used Books
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Monday, April 15, 2002, at 09:46 PM, Bret Robideaux wrote:

>
>
> Raymond Feist wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
> > It's bad, in the long run, because if sales of new copies dwindle,
> > fewer  and fewer writers will be writing new books.
>
>
>   I reversed the order of these two statements. I just finished a
> long rant defending (and long-windedly going into more detail) this
> position.
>
>   While I fully agree with your position (it's short sighted, and will
> cause serious repercussions down the road), the following statement 
> isn't sitting well with me.
>
> > They get a small commission without  having done anything except
> > stick up the site, and rob me of a royalty.
> >
>
>   While I'm not a big fan of what Amazon is doing (and I'm certain 
> you're even less so), I'm fairly sure that what they're doing is not 
> illegal. In fact, besides being short sighted, and possibly even 
> stupid, I don't think it could even be labeled immoral or unethical 
> (not that those two issues ever stopped marketing people before).

Never said anything about doing anything "illegal" so that's a straw man.

>
>   For you to claim they're robbing you (i.e. committing a crime) seems 
> out of character.

OK, here's how they're robbing me.  One figuratively, and one 
literally.  Figuratively, they're diverting a potential buyer from a 
book where I will receive a royalty to a book where I will not receive a 
royalty.  Perhaps "robbing" is a bit harsh, though that's what it feels 
like.  Now, literally.  That button appears before the books hit the 
stores, which means the only "used" copies that Amazon can sell are 
review copies, of which there are hundreds out there.  This means the 
reviewer has chosen to sell it (in violation of an agreement with every 
publisher out there, but it commonly goes on).

I DON'T GET ROYALTIES ON REVIEW COPIES.  Hence, I'm being robbed of 
royalties on early sales of "used" books on a new title.  You see a "buy 
it used" button when Murder in LaMut ships, or Talon of the Silver Hawk, 
I'm being robbed.

I assumed wrongly that people would get that part, and I forgot that 
most of you don't live in the publishing business. <g>

Best, R.E.F.

----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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From: "Terri Lyn Layman" <terrilyn@fullnet.com>
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Subject: Used book/Purchase a brand new book with XX% off sticker...
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From: "Terri Lyn Layman" <terrilyn@fullnet.com>
To: "FeistList \(E-mail\)" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Used book/Purchase a brand new book with XX% off sticker...
Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 11:02:09 -0500
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I guess I should weigh in on the whole used book from Amazon thing...

I have bought exactly 2 used books for my own enjoyment in my whole life.
(<tangent>I can't count the numbers in Collegiate texts, but then again,
when I see the author driving around campus in a high-end sedan and wearing
nice suits... I sorta don't feel guilty about it... but it's a different
case I think...</tangent>)

Anyhow...

The one book I bought from Amazon, the other from Ebay.  Both were out of
print books.  One was a "Little Golden Book" that's at least 25 years old
and has quite a bit of sentimental meaning to me, the other was a trade
paperback of Magician.  I suppose I don't really feel bad about the
purchases given that they are both out of print currently(with the exception
of Magician to an extent, I could go out and buy the two part APE at the
local bookstore, and I might someday, but I wanted a full copy).  I don't
think I could ever in good conciousness purchase a used book of a new
release.  The closest I have ever come to that was when a friend gave me her
copies of the first two Harry Potter books as a thanks for running her
around when she had no car.  Now, all the subsequent HP books are going to
be purchased new.  (As I ponder going to the UK and beating Ms. Rowlings
editors/publishers upside the head for running late on publication!)

I guess in my particualar case, I look at what the book is and what having
it would mean to me.  Just because I bought the one book used doesn't mean
that Ray is going to loose out on all future sales to me.  In fact, just the
opposite.  Now that we're out of school, we can use the "textbook" cash to
better purpose!

Another thing that's always gotten me is when I see a new book on the shelf
(like on release day even!) that has one of those corner stickers on it for
a certain percent off the price.  I've always wondered why they do that.  I
mean, I can understand the point of doing so a few months afterwards to get
copies off the shelves and increase sales... but for a long awaited new
release?  You don't see that in CD or DVD sales, just books.  I'm stumped.
I mean, it's sorta like going car shopping on the day that they release the
new model year and being told "Get the 2003 for the 2002 price" or something
to that effect.  I guess that given what I know about economics, I'm just
confused on the price of books issue.

-TerriLyn



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From: "Earl Borah" <earl@ncn.com>
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> For one, it is against Amazon.com ONLY. One guy said that it wasn't
> for selling used books, per se, but that it was being done from within
> Amazon.com's main site, instead of sending you to a separate site
> (apparently this is what B&N does, having a separate site for used
> books). "Buy this book new for $6.99 or buy it used for $2.00". That's
> the way their website basically reads right now.
> 
> It really makes you wonder if Amazon.com is cutting into their own
> profits this way, regardless of whether they get a fee from the sale.

I don't know how much it is or isn't cutting into their profits, but I
think a bit more is being made of it than is necessary. Granted, I'm
not the one affected by potentially losing royalties, but the used
section on Amazon isn't exactly 100% user friendly.

Once you click on that "Get it used for $2.00" link, suddenly you're
presented with a list of people selling it, their ratings, book
conditions, and so on. Seasoned ebay users may not blink, but I've
felt nervous about buying something from some anonymous user out there
who might not even have what he says he's selling me. That factor
pushes many people to press their back button, and buy the new version
instead, I would think.

I'm a lot more comfortable buying something new, from a company with a
return policy, without seeing it first than I am with buying something
used, sight-unseen, from some individual who may not know how to
package the thing for the mail, and may be lying about the
condition. I don't think I'm alone in that concern.


> > It's the same thing with Napster and the illegal distributing of MP3
> > music files online.
> 
> I'd really say that the Napster situation is a completely different
> argument.
> 
> If I bought a used book through Amazon.com, well, I'm atleast paying
> something for it and not getting it totally free. Most likely, the
> person selling me the book has bought it as well, probably new.
> 
> Again, not the case with Napster, where a file I download for free I
> can turn around and let somebody else download.

You're right, used books are different from Napster -- and different
for more important reasons than you gave.

Selling used books is generally recognized as legal -- you're not
making a new copy, you're selling an existing one. MP3 "trading" on
services such as Napster are generally recognized as illegal -- you
are making a copy (a violation of copyright law) and
selling/giving/"sharing" it to someone else. Now I know people will
try to claim all sorts of "fair use" legal wrangling, but anyone who
actually buys those arguments is just fooling themselves -- "sharing"
songs has always been illegal, but has only been a serious
consideration when it became so cheap and easy to do it on a vast
scale.

The fact that you can make nearly unlimited copies of music for nearly
no cost can greatly reduce the commercial value of the work -- used
books sales don't have that same effect at all. There are only X
copies of a first-edition Magician out there. If you buy one used,
that doesn't change how many exist, or how many are potentially
available for sale. The same is true (and more relevant to the
discussion) for Ray's newer books -- the publisher prints however many
they print, and selling one used doesn't affect how many are actually
out there available (potentially) for sale. You haven't made a new
copy, or kept a copy when you sold the used book.



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Subject: Re: Used Books
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From: Joel Rosenberg <joelr@ellegon.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu, Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
Subject: Re: Used Books
Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 11:21:47 -0500
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On Tuesday 16 April 2002 09:35 am, Raymond Feist wrote:

>
> OK, here's how they're robbing me.  One figuratively, and one
> literally.  Figuratively, they're diverting a potential buyer from a
> book where I will receive a royalty to a book where I will not receive a
> royalty.  Perhaps "robbing" is a bit harsh, though that's what it feels
> like.  

And the difference between that and a bookstore selling used books is largely 
one of scale:  Amazon is a big deal.  I try to avoid worrying about used book 
sales, as there's nothing I can do about it, but I'm with Ray in being far 
more irritated about widescale, efficient, used book redistribution than the 
local SF shop having a used book section.

I don't have any doubt that it's legal; it's also, IMHO, contrary to the 
writers' interests, and if I thought that there was some effective, lawful, 
moral way to interfere with it, I would.  

> Now, literally.  That button appears before the books hit the
> stores, which means the only "used" copies that Amazon can sell are
> review copies, of which there are hundreds out there.  This means the
> reviewer has chosen to sell it (in violation of an agreement with every
> publisher out there, but it commonly goes on).
>
> I DON'T GET ROYALTIES ON REVIEW COPIES.  Hence, I'm being robbed of
> royalties on early sales of "used" books on a new title.  You see a "buy
> it used" button when Murder in LaMut ships, or Talon of the Silver Hawk,
> I'm being robbed.

You and me both, in one case.  :)

Obvious cure:  in the next contract, demand royalties for review copies, 
which would have the obvious cure-being-worse-than-the-disease problem 
(assuming that the publisher would go for it; Ray's a big gun, granted, but 
that would be a difficult precedent for a publisher to accept), of having the 
publisher be less inclined to send out review copies.   (Me, I'd like a 
review copy myself...:))

On the gripping hand, Murder in LaMut is, at the moment, the 477th 
bestselling book at amazon.uk -- despite not being available for another 
three weeks -- the 23rd bestselling pre-release book, and has been regularly 
doing that well or better over the past couple of weeks, and, as yet, there 
are no "used"/review copies for sale.  



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From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: OT D&D
Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 13:15:08 -0400
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From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
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Subject: OT D&D
Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 13:15:08 -0400
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I have a question for those of you play 3rd edition D&D. Of the sorcerer and 
the Wizard, which do you think more closely resembles a lesser path and 
which do you think more closely resembles a greater path? And, most 
importantly, why do you think so?

Now I realize that either is a much less than perfect fit, but I am curious 
for your input. I am looking for constructive criticism  from those of you 
are actually enjoy playing, and are proficient in, the 3E D&D system.

Adieu

Jimmy

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.



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Subject: RE: (OT) TV
Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 14:24:07 -0500
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Brian Blair" <bsblair@COMWARES.NET>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: (OT) TV
Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 14:24:07 -0500
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>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Smenick@aol.com
>Sent: Tuesday, April 16, 2002 9:28 AM
>To: FEISTFANS-L
>Subject: (OT) TV
>
>
><Sony WEGA is very good.  You might also look at their non-WEGA sets if
><you're not ready to pop for HD, but want to in a couple of years.  I
><have both a Mitsubishi 56" 16x9 HDTV and a Panasonic 32" HDTV 4x3 direct
><tube and both are terrific (about $2,000 and $1,200 respectively).  You
><might think about popping the extra $400 for the Panasonic which you can
><turn HDTV with an outboard adapter down the road.
>
><Best, R.E.F.
>
>
>I found a HDTV 27' from Samsung with a ton of inputs for around the price I
>am looking at. Has anyone ever bought a Samsung TV? I know they make decent
>phones and their plasmas don't seem that bad.
> But I am wary of a TV from Samsung. Should I be?
>
>-Sean
>


DELURKING....

Don't be wary of a Samsung TV.  I have a 25" Samsung TV that my wife bought
me for Christmas in 1995.  It still works great, and I am thinking about
buying another Samsung to replace an old RCA TV that I have.  I also have a
Samsung VCR and a 13" TV that I am also
very happy with.

Currently, I am looking into purchasing a Samsung LCD monitor (171P) for my
computer.  It has gotten some very good reviews.

Just my $0.02 worth.

BACK TO LURKING

-Brian Blair


(*)*(*)*(*)*(*)*(*)*(*)*(*)*(*)
Brian S. Blair
bsblair@comwares.net
www.parisblairs.com/brian
ICQ #116107848
MSN MSGR:   briansblair@hotmail.com
Yahoo MSGR: briansblair@yahoo.com



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Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 20:57:05 +0100
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I'm trying to find Honoured Enemy second hand. Can anyone help?

:-P

BJS






PS - In actual fact I'm awaiting the p/b. 7th May it reckons.


-----Original Message-----
>From: Craig J. Ries [mailto:cries@yifan.net]
>Sent: 16 April 2002 03:00
>To: FEISTFANS-L
>Subject: Re: trying again.
>
>
>Umm, Cameron said in his e-mail as to why Honoured Enemy won't/isn't
>released in the US.
>
>Craig J. Ries
>


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Subject: Re: Used Books
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From: "Justin" <justin.carew@ntlworld.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Used Books
Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 21:37:32 +0100
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I know i'm kind of bieng traitorous by
telling you this but any of you
collecter's might want to check out a
1st edition magiacan:master in
amozan.com. used of course. it was $10.
Over all, i'm against used books and I
don't know why people want to sell them
but some are pretty rare and nice
collecter's items. I'm not going to buy
it though, i buy books to read them.

Justin


----- Original Message -----
From: "Joel Rosenberg"
<joelr@ellegon.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>; "Raymond
Feist" <raymond@bittersea.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 16, 2002 5:21 PM
Subject: Re: Used Books


| On Tuesday 16 April 2002 09:35 am, Raymond Feist wrote:
|
| >
| > OK, here's how they're robbing me. One figuratively, and one
| > literally.  Figuratively, they're diverting a potential buyer from a
| > book where I will receive a royalty to a book where I will not receive a
| > royalty.  Perhaps "robbing" is a bit harsh, though that's what it feels
| > like.
|
| And the difference between that and a bookstore selling used books is largely
| one of scale:  Amazon is a big deal. I try to avoid worrying about used book
| sales, as there's nothing I can do about it, but I'm with Ray in being far
| more irritated about widescale, efficient, used book redistribution than the
| local SF shop having a used book section.
|
| I don't have any doubt that it's legal; it's also, IMHO, contrary to the
| writers' interests, and if I thought that there was some effective, lawful,
| moral way to interfere with it, I would.
|
|    Now, literally.  That button appears before the books hit the
| > stores, which means the only "used" copies that Amazon can sell are
| > review copies, of which there are hundreds out there.  This means the
| > reviewer has chosen to sell it (in violation of an agreement with every
| > publisher out there, but it commonly goes on).
| >
| > I DON'T GET ROYALTIES ON REVIEW COPIES.  Hence, I'm being robbed of
| > royalties on early sales of "used" books on a new title.  You see a "buy
| > it used" button when Murder in LaMut ships, or Talon of the Silver Hawk,
| > I'm being robbed.
|
| You and me both, in one case.  :)
|
| Obvious cure:  in the next contract, demand royalties for review copies,
| which would have the obvious cure-being-worse-than-the-disease problem
| (assuming that the publisher would go for it; Ray's a big gun, granted, but
| that would be a difficult precedent for a publisher to accept), of having the
| publisher be less inclined to send out review copies.   (Me, I'd like a
| review copy myself...:))
|
| On the gripping hand, Murder in LaMut is, at the moment, the 477th
| bestselling book at amazon.uk -- despite not being available for another
| three weeks -- the 23rd bestselling pre-release book, and has been regularly
| doing that well or better over the past couple of weeks, and, as yet, there
| are no "used"/review copies for sale.
|
|



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Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 14:36:45 -0700
Subject: Re: Used Books
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Tuesday, April 16, 2002, at 01:37 PM, Justin wrote:

>
> I know i'm kind of bieng traitorous by
> telling you this but any of you
> collecter's might want to check out a
> 1st edition magiacan:master in
> amozan.com. used of course. it was $10.
> Over all, i'm against used books and I
> don't know why people want to sell them
> but some are pretty rare and nice
> collecter's items. I'm not going to buy
> it though, i buy books to read them.
>
> Justin
>

OK, let me try this again to see if I can make this clear:

No one is "against used books."

I love used book stores.  I love out-of-print books that I can't get 
anywhere else being available.

I don't object to used book web sites.

I don't object to collectors paying outrageous sums for out-of-print 
books, such as mine.

What I do object to is AMAZON being in the used book business THE WAY 
THEY CHOSE TO DO IT.

I'm not against Barnes & Noble's used business, because they have it on 
a different site.

I object to Amazon taking someone who has just clicked on my title to 
"put in their shopping basket," being told, "What it cheaper?  We have 
it used!"  or words to that effect.

I would not utter one word of complaint if Amazon had a separate site 
the way B&N does.

But I am furious they would set up a system that effectively tries to 
yank a sale out from under me at the cash register.  And they are not 
even doing it with books they have!  They're doing it with OTHER 
PEOPLE'S INVENTORY!  And they're getting that inventory by putting 
another button next to my book saying, "Do you have this book to sell?"

Also keep in mind scale.  A used bookstore is a tiny business.  Amazon 
is the biggest bookseller in the world.  All the used booksellers in the 
United States together don't come close to Amazon's volume.

OK, is it clear now why I'm opposed to Amazon.com's used book policy?

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Subject: Re: Used Books
References: <34DF97A7-5147-11D6-A749-003065A8A644@bittersea.com> <20020416162147.4A3BC23331@msp-65-25-234-54.mn.rr.com> <000001c1e586$a2eb6a00$0100000a@faithful>
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Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 23:41:27 +0200
From: Caranorn Aglaredhel <caranorn@cmdnet.lu>
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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Used Books
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Well some people sell books because they don't mean much to them. Others 
do it because they could not buy new books if they did not sell their 
old ones. Some even do it to create some room on their bookshelves. I 
for one don't think I ever sold a used book, though I have been known to 
give them away (and lend them out).

On the other hand I am by now so broke that I only buy half a dozen new 
books a year, lack space so much that I have boxes standing around 
everywhere (not just books, also comic books (European style) and games).

And while I prefer new books off the shelf I have bought used ones 
(other then college) before and I expect maybe 5% of my collection is 
used (some collectors though).

Marc aka Caran...

P.S.: You can also buy collectors books to read them. I have some pre 
WWII material that has never been reprinted. This is not fiction of 
course. Even some newer books that I need (for wargame design) are not 
available through any means other then collectors.

Justin wrote:

>I know i'm kind of bieng traitorous by
>telling you this but any of you
>collecter's might want to check out a
>1st edition magiacan:master in
>amozan.com. used of course. it was $10.
>Over all, i'm against used books and I
>don't know why people want to sell them
>but some are pretty rare and nice
>collecter's items. I'm not going to buy
>it though, i buy books to read them.
>
>Justin
>



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References: <1a6.b79a86.29eb0460@aol.com>
	 <5.1.0.14.2.20020415091102.025db260@mail.swindon.wrsec.fr> <5.1.0.14.2.20020416084546.0260d9f0@mail.swindon.wrsec.fr>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 16:35:46 -0600
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Storing Up Your Work
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Richard Williamson wrote:
> 
> It's November.  NaNoWriMo ([inter-]National Novel Writing Month).  The
> website is www.nanowrimo.com .

No, I'm referring to a different one.

Never heard of the one you mentioned.

I'll look around and see if I can find the site again that I'm thinking
of. Not sure if I have it bookmarked atm.

Craig J. Ries



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From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
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Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 09:22:12 +1000 (GMT+1000)
From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Used Books
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> >   Personally, if there was only one fantasy author left and it was Ray,
> > then I wouldn't care a whit, because his books are the only ones I buy
> > for entertainment anyway (well, in the last several years at least).
> > All the other books I buy are technical.
> Too bad.  There's some really good stuff out there.
> Best, R.E.F.

Speaking of other good stuff, has anyone read Aegypt by John Crowley..
I'mjust starting to get into it, and I find his overly descriptive manner
a bit demanding on the reader. Just wondering if anyone else has read it,
and what they thinkk (feel free to contact me off list if required)


Thanks
Darragh
================================================
University of Queensland
Information Technology / Arts (History) student
[Email #1] s356179@student.uq.edu.au
[Email #2] squik@solutionone.com.au
[Web Site] http://hainsworth.ath.cx/~squik/
================================================



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Subject: Other Alternatives
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*** EOOH ***
From: Elvis11067@aol.com
Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 20:12:11 EDT
Subject: Other Alternatives
To: feistfans-l@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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With the 'used book' thread, it becomes clear that there are significant 
flaws in the way the industry is set up and maintained (although in some 
cases very much like similar industries AKA music).  Now, I know all people's 
budgets are different, but I, for one, would honestly not mind shelling out 
more than 8 bucks a book (paperback) or 25 for the hardcover.  I was 
thinking, and who am I to brainstorm, but once an author has a fan base such 
as Ray's which, I would assume, is quite determined to buy every single 
snippet of his, can't he be able to use this to his advantage (economically). 
 I was thinking, what if Ray himself (without the aid of a publishing house) 
could put out a prerelease collector's edition of each new book he has plans 
to release.  For example, I (happily) pay 30-40 bucks and, in return, receive 
an ultra-rare version (with perhaps some bonus segments.  Cost very little to 
enhance the experience, like most DVDs are released with nowadays.)  And, Ray 
does this virtually on his own through a web site, etc., before the book (and 
its publishing rights) are bought by a publisher.  This way Ray sells a 
version for more money and receives most of the cost (minus whatever it took 
to print the books).  Then the book is published later (and the special 
version discontinued) for the majority of the public to buy.  I'm just 
thinking from an author's perspective, and although small in essence, this 
scheme could truly boost the possibility and validity of the industry.  
Obviously, I have no idea if this violates regulations, unions, or copyright 
laws, or do I know if it is actually feasible.  Just an idea.

Ted

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From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
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Elvis11067@aol.com wrote:
> 
> Now, I know all people's budgets are different, but I, for one, would
> honestly not mind shelling out more than 8 bucks a book (paperback) or
> 25 for the hardcover.

You're not a college student are you?
Or in debt, perhaps? :)

While alot of people would love to be able to, I'm sure, I for one
cannot. I'm still deciding what upcoming books I want to get: two
Dragonlance hardcovers, one is already preordered; Ray's new book; Star
Trek, etc.
I cannot afford to buy everything, nor can alot of other people.

Craig J. Ries



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Raymond Feist wrote:


>>
>>   While I'm not a big fan of what Amazon is doing (and I'm certain 
>> you're even less so), I'm fairly sure that what they're doing is not 
>> illegal. In fact, besides being short sighted, and possibly even 
>> stupid, I don't think it could even be labeled immoral or unethical 
>> (not that those two issues ever stopped marketing people before).
> 
> 
> Never said anything about doing anything "illegal" so that's a straw man.
> 


   Yes, but 'being robbed' implies illegal.


>>
>>   For you to claim they're robbing you (i.e. committing a crime) seems 
>> out of character.
> 
> 
> OK, here's how they're robbing me.  One figuratively, and one 


  *snap* figuratively! That's the word that was eluding me last night. I 
rewrote that email twice because the first drafts were stupid and twice 
more because I couldn't say what I wanted for lack of the word 
'figuratively' ... I finally settled on the draft you saw because I was 
too tired to continue.


> literally.  Figuratively, they're diverting a potential buyer from a 
> book where I will receive a royalty to a book where I will not receive a 
> royalty.  Perhaps "robbing" is a bit harsh, though that's what it feels


   Ah. I should have figured as much. Thanks.


> like.  Now, literally.  That button appears before the books hit the 
> stores, which means the only "used" copies that Amazon can sell are 
> review copies, of which there are hundreds out there.  This means the 
> reviewer has chosen to sell it (in violation of an agreement with every 
> publisher out there, but it commonly goes on

> 
> I DON'T GET ROYALTIES ON REVIEW COPIES.  Hence, I'm being robbed of 
> royalties on early sales of "used" books on a new title.  You see a "buy 
> it used" button when Murder in LaMut ships, or Talon of the Silver Hawk, 
> I'm being robbed.


   OK, I wasn't aware of this practice. I presume the publisher is also 
being robbed (as they give them out for free, yes?). Based on the fact 
they don't seem to be doing much about it, I assume there isn't much 
economic value in going after the culprits?

   Oooh, a clue! I assume the people with review copies are actually 
supposed to be writing reviews? Slapping someone like that with a law 
suit wouldn't exactly predispose them to 'fair' treatment next time the 
publisher comes calling?


> 
> I assumed wrongly that people would get that part, and I forgot that 
> most of you don't live in the publishing business. <g>
> 
> Best, R.E.F.


*grin* that's why you're here isn't it? to explain these things to us :)

Speaking of which, thanks for doing so.

Bret




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From: "rob tavares" <vze26fdh@verizon.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Other Alternatives
Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 22:26:13 -0700
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All in all, I'm not sure how I feel about the ethics of selling/buying
used books. I buy one or two used paperbacks a month. Sort of to feel
out an author. paying 2.50 for a book your not even sure your going to
like is reasonable. 7+ to me is not. Once I get the feel of an author
I fully invest in the first hand books.

hey Ray, what are your thoughts behind the sudden lull in interest in
fantasy/sci-fi books?

imo, it has to do with the lack of original writers and a plethora of sponges.
In 11 years of reading fantasy I've managed to find 3 out of 40+
authors who maintained a high level of originality.
Mr. Feist himself.
Piers Anthony, the perverted pun-ist himself.
and Le Modesitt Jr.

Now, don't get me wrong, I fully understand the concept of pulling
concepts from the materials available to us....But how many
philosophers from Greece do people remember today? The same will
follow for the authors of today in a thousand years :).

ps. Strangely enough, Modesitt is, despite his originality, a heavily
overlooked author. A popular concept seems to be that he writes too
in-depth, builds the characters to well and to personally. ... ... 

pss. Now, if we could get bush to hold off on the ban of cloning
humans long enough to borrow a blood sample Ray? Watch those deadlines
cut in half :o

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Raymond Feist wrote:

>>
>>   *smile* I just picked the fantasy author who seems (to me) to sell 
>> the most books. I'm pretty sure Jordan sells more than Ray, and that 
>> was my point. If fantasy dropped to one author, it probably wouldn't 
>> be Ray ... and that would suck.
> 
> 
> Depends on where.  In the US it would be Jim Rigney (Robert Jordan).  In 
> Britian it would be Terry Pratchett.  In Australia it would be me.
> 


   Oh good, at least you're #1 somewhere :)


>>
>>   Personally, if there was only one fantasy author left and it was 
>> Ray, then I wouldn't care a whit, because his books are the only ones 
>> I buy for entertainment anyway (well, in the last several years at 
>> least). All the other books I buy are technical.
>>
> 
> Too bad.  There's some really good stuff out there.
> 
> Best, R.E.F.


   No argument here. There was a time when I had both the time and the 
funds to speculatively buy a random book off the shelf (that's how I 
found your work) or pick it up on recommendation. While I could manage 
the funds if I wanted to, I have a serious shortage of time for pleasure 
reading. Given my lack of time, I prefer to 'manage' what I read.

   I've read many of the major fantasy writers (Brooks, Jordan, Eddings, 
Anthony, McCaffery, Robin Hobb, Dave Duncan) as well as other writers 
King (primarily three of his Bachman books), Clancy, Harold Coyle, David 
Drake, even Agatha Christie (I'm reading from my book shelf).

   For my time and money, I prefer your work. I enjoy the Universe 
you've created, your style appeals to me and your stories and characters 
are always well crafted (some better than others, but those are 
opinions) and I consider them all worth the time spent. I can't say that 
about any of the other authors I've sampled.

   When my free time picks back up (probably not for a couple more 
years), I will likely resume my old habits. Until then, you'll just have 
to suffer under the burden of being my sole source of pleasure reading 
material *grin*

Bret



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From: Matt Sainsbury <lord_al_rashid@yahoo.com>
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Lesser Path is Wizard.. Greater Path is Sorcerer if
thats all one had to choose from, why? It's a lil hard
to explain buut, a Greater Path's magic I feel tends
to be more focused on natural power, while a lesser
path's involves more study... While I'm actually
saying something to the group, hey Ray, just a
not-entirely-sober thought, but how cool would it be
if you killed one of your characters, then had him/
her come back a la the crow for revenge? Perhaps a
Legends of the Riftwar novel somewhere? :-D 

Matt

Note: That crow idea, lets not go taking it too
seriously and start flaming me for what is essintally
a joke eh? Thankee :)


--- James Silva <kiehtan@hotmail.com> wrote:
> I have a question for those of you play 3rd edition
> D&D. Of the sorcerer and 
> the Wizard, which do you think more closely
> resembles a lesser path and 
> which do you think more closely resembles a greater
> path? And, most 
> importantly, why do you think so?
> 
> Now I realize that either is a much less than
> perfect fit, but I am curious 
> for your input. I am looking for constructive
> criticism  from those of you 
> are actually enjoy playing, and are proficient in,
> the 3E D&D system.
> 
> Adieu
> 
> Jimmy
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
> http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.
> 


__________________________________________________
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Subject: Re: Used book/Purchase a brand new book with XX% off sticker...
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From: "Nevyn" <alien4@wasp.net.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Used book/Purchase a brand new book with XX% off sticker...
Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 18:11:06 +0800
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LOOK GUYS
Just go to K-MART... all paperbacks, I repeat *ALL* paperbacks, are only
$11.20. Usually cheaper then a second hand novel at $14.


Thanks,
             Nevyn

________________________________________________________________________

Not every love, but only those which have a noble purpose, are noble and
worthy of praise.

- Plato
________________________________________________________________________

"Knowledge speaks; Wisdom listens."
________________________________________________________________________
----- Original Message -----
From: "Terri Lyn Layman" <terrilyn@fullnet.com>
To: "FeistList (E-mail)" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>; <FEISTFANS-L>
Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 12:02 AM
Subject: Used book/Purchase a brand new book with XX% off sticker...


> I guess I should weigh in on the whole used book from Amazon thing...
>
> I have bought exactly 2 used books for my own enjoyment in my whole life.
> (<tangent>I can't count the numbers in Collegiate texts, but then again,
> when I see the author driving around campus in a high-end sedan and wearing
> nice suits... I sorta don't feel guilty about it... but it's a different
> case I think...</tangent>)
>
> Anyhow...
>
> The one book I bought from Amazon, the other from Ebay.  Both were out of
> print books.  One was a "Little Golden Book" that's at least 25 years old
> and has quite a bit of sentimental meaning to me, the other was a trade
> paperback of Magician.  I suppose I don't really feel bad about the
> purchases given that they are both out of print currently(with the exception
> of Magician to an extent, I could go out and buy the two part APE at the
> local bookstore, and I might someday, but I wanted a full copy).  I don't
> think I could ever in good conciousness purchase a used book of a new
> release.  The closest I have ever come to that was when a friend gave me her
> copies of the first two Harry Potter books as a thanks for running her
> around when she had no car.  Now, all the subsequent HP books are going to
> be purchased new.  (As I ponder going to the UK and beating Ms. Rowlings
> editors/publishers upside the head for running late on publication!)
>
> I guess in my particualar case, I look at what the book is and what having
> it would mean to me.  Just because I bought the one book used doesn't mean
> that Ray is going to loose out on all future sales to me.  In fact, just the
> opposite.  Now that we're out of school, we can use the "textbook" cash to
> better purpose!
>
> Another thing that's always gotten me is when I see a new book on the shelf
> (like on release day even!) that has one of those corner stickers on it for
> a certain percent off the price.  I've always wondered why they do that. I
> mean, I can understand the point of doing so a few months afterwards to get
> copies off the shelves and increase sales... but for a long awaited new
> release?  You don't see that in CD or DVD sales, just books.  I'm stumped.
> I mean, it's sorta like going car shopping on the day that they release the
> new model year and being told "Get the 2003 for the 2002 price" or something
> to that effect.  I guess that given what I know about economics, I'm just
> confused on the price of books issue.
>
> -TerriLyn
>



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From: "James Holden" <james@globalvision.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: OT D&D
Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 11:31:33 +0100
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Holden" <james@globalvision.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: OT D&D
Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 11:31:33 +0100
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Lesser path always seemed to require some kind of "item" to use or hold in
order to invoke the spell (scrolls etc).  Greater path seemed to be "off the
cuff" kind of magic. Wizard is lesser, Magician is greater and Sorcerer
follower of both paths, they arnt bound by the same rules because they know
there isnt any.  But as we all know, there is no magic, only stuff!

;0)

-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Matt Sainsbury
>Sent: 17 April 2002 11:06
>To: FEISTFANS-L
>Subject: Re: OT D&D
>
>
>Lesser Path is Wizard.. Greater Path is Sorcerer if
>thats all one had to choose from, why? It's a lil hard
>to explain buut, a Greater Path's magic I feel tends
>to be more focused on natural power, while a lesser
>path's involves more study... While I'm actually
>saying something to the group, hey Ray, just a
>not-entirely-sober thought, but how cool would it be
>if you killed one of your characters, then had him/
>her come back a la the crow for revenge? Perhaps a
>Legends of the Riftwar novel somewhere? :-D
>
>Matt
>
>Note: That crow idea, lets not go taking it too
>seriously and start flaming me for what is essintally
>a joke eh? Thankee :)
>
>
>--- James Silva <kiehtan@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> I have a question for those of you play 3rd edition
>> D&D. Of the sorcerer and
>> the Wizard, which do you think more closely
>> resembles a lesser path and
>> which do you think more closely resembles a greater
>> path? And, most
>> importantly, why do you think so?
>>
>> Now I realize that either is a much less than
>> perfect fit, but I am curious
>> for your input. I am looking for constructive
>> criticism  from those of you
>> are actually enjoy playing, and are proficient in,
>> the 3E D&D system.
>>
>> Adieu
>>
>> Jimmy
>>
>>
>_________________________________________________________________
>> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
>> http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.
>>
>
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax
>http://taxes.yahoo.com/
>
>

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*** EOOH ***
From: "Donal K. Fellows" <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk>
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Dan Lorey <dl24@cornell.edu>
>   Since I'm seeing error messages regarding this at a higher rate
> than usual, I just wanted to remind everyone that the list is
> configured so that you _must_ post to the list from the same email
> address that you're subscribed to the list with. This is to make
> sure that only list subscribers can post to the list, which is the
> main line of defense against spam. If your email address changes
> or if you need to be able to post to the list from more than one
> mail address, please contact me, and I'll see what I can do.

One way of handling this is to subscribe from both addresses and use a
"SET FEISTFANS-L MAIL NOACK" message to turn off delivery of messages
to the address from where you post.  (This is a minor variation of
trick I've used with a web-to-mail gateway for another list I'm a
member of.)

Donal.
-- 
Donal K. Fellows, Department of Computer Science, University of Manchester, UK.
(work) fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk     Tel: +44-161-275-6137  (preferred email addr.)
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From: "Natalie Henderson" <natz101@hotmail.com>
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>I dunno.  You Tell Me:
>http://www.ferkel.co.uk/wdbridge/tbt/SOS_r3.pdf
>Which I wrote (68,000 words) in one month.  I've done some rewrites, 
>however
>so I don't know if it counts.
>
>rip
>

Hi rip,

I read your story over the last couple of days. I don't usually read sci-fi 
but I have to sat I thought yours was really good! Definitely very clever! 
:)

Natalie

_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
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From: Fred Collington <fcolling@yahoo.com>
Subject: Review copies
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Ray, I read your recent description of used books and review
copies. Your position seems quite resonable, IMHO. I don't allow my
kids to freeload their music for similar reasons, as artists should be
worth their hire. They disagree that it is an honesty issue and it
pisses them off, but what else is a Dad for? ;)

My question: Are review copies the same as 'regular' copies?
Obviously, the text is the same, otherwise what would the reviewers be
reviewing? But is the cover art, binding, etc. the same? Is the final
product changed based on feedback from the reviewers as editors? Or is
this a marketing type review, to help determine potential  sales and
hence the size of the press run?  As I have only published tech stuff
in magazines, I am clueless about books, other than I'm on the list
for 'Murder' when .uk ships!

Thanks,

Fred

 


Fred Collington
Oracle DBA
Naval Air Warfare Center


---------------------------------
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At 12:40 PM 4/17/02, Natalie Henderson wrote:
>...I thought yours was really good! Definitely very clever! :)

Thanks!  You'll have to wait until November for the sequel ;->

rip



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Using the Sorcerer as the Greater Path and the Wizard as the Lesser was the 
"path" I was leaning towards for my Midkemia based campaign, but I wanted to 
get some input from some other knowledgeable folks too. Thanks a bunch! One 
change I am going to make is to give the sorcerer the Eschew Materials Feat 
for free since a Greater Path does not use items or material to cast spells 
but rather uses inate talent talent and their own body's to focus magic.

Adieu

Jimmy


>From: "James Holden" <james@globalvision.com>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
>Subject: RE: OT D&D
>Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 11:31:33 +0100
>
>Lesser path always seemed to require some kind of "item" to use or hold in
>order to invoke the spell (scrolls etc).  Greater path seemed to be "off 
>the
>cuff" kind of magic. Wizard is lesser, Magician is greater and Sorcerer
>follower of both paths, they arnt bound by the same rules because they know
>there isnt any.  But as we all know, there is no magic, only stuff!
>
>;0)
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Matt Sainsbury
>Sent: 17 April 2002 11:06
>To: FEISTFANS-L
>Subject: Re: OT D&D
>
>
>Lesser Path is Wizard.. Greater Path is Sorcerer if
>thats all one had to choose from, why? It's a lil hard
>to explain buut, a Greater Path's magic I feel tends
>to be more focused on natural power, while a lesser
>path's involves more study... While I'm actually
>saying something to the group, hey Ray, just a
>not-entirely-sober thought, but how cool would it be
>if you killed one of your characters, then had him/
>her come back a la the crow for revenge? Perhaps a
>Legends of the Riftwar novel somewhere? :-D
>
>Matt
>
>Note: That crow idea, lets not go taking it too
>seriously and start flaming me for what is essintally
>a joke eh? Thankee :)
>
>
>--- James Silva <kiehtan@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > I have a question for those of you play 3rd edition
> > D&D. Of the sorcerer and
> > the Wizard, which do you think more closely
> > resembles a lesser path and
> > which do you think more closely resembles a greater
> > path? And, most
> > importantly, why do you think so?
> >
> > Now I realize that either is a much less than
> > perfect fit, but I am curious
> > for your input. I am looking for constructive
> > criticism  from those of you
> > are actually enjoy playing, and are proficient in,
> > the 3E D&D system.
> >
> > Adieu
> >
> > Jimmy
> >
> >
>_________________________________________________________________
> > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
> > http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.
> >
>
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax
>http://taxes.yahoo.com/
>


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.



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From: Joel Rosenberg <joelr@ellegon.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L),
        Fred Collington <fcolling@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Review copies
Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 09:19:14 -0500
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*** EOOH ***
From: Joel Rosenberg <joelr@ellegon.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L),
        Fred Collington <fcolling@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Review copies
Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 09:19:14 -0500
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

On Wednesday 17 April 2002 07:47 am, Fred Collington wrote:
> Ray, I read your recent description of used books and review copies. Your
> position seems quite resonable, IMHO. I don't allow my kids to freeload
> their music for similar reasons, as artists should be worth their hire.
> They disagree that it is an honesty issue and it pisses them off, but what
> else is a Dad for? ;)
>
> My question: Are review copies the same as 'regular' copies? Obviously, the
> text is the same, otherwise what would the reviewers be reviewing? But is
> the cover art, binding, etc. the same? Is the final product changed based
> on feedback from the reviewers as editors? Or is this a marketing type
> review, to help determine potential  sales and hence the size of the press
> run?  As I have only published tech stuff in magazines, I am clueless about
> books, other than I'm on the list for 'Murder' when .uk ships!

Generally, they're not.  Review copies are usually "bound galleys" -- the 
text is the same, minus last-minute proofreading/corrections, but they're 
"perfect bound" (just glue), and usually (but not always) without the 
cover/jacket art. 

Review copies are not sent out for feedback from reviewers, but to give 
reviewers enough time to write a review that will be available at about the 
time that the book hits the shelves.  



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 11:59:00 -0700
Subject: Re: Review copies
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On Wednesday, April 17, 2002, at 05:47 AM, Fred Collington wrote:

> Ray, I read your recent description of used books and review copies. 
> Your position seems quite resonable, IMHO. I don't allow my kids to 
> freeload their music for similar reasons, as artists should be worth 
> their hire. They disagree that it is an honesty issue and it pisses 
> them off, but what else is a Dad for? ;)
>
> My question: Are review copies the same as 'regular' copies? Obviously, 
> the text is the same, otherwise what would the reviewers be reviewing? 
> But is the cover art, binding, etc. the same? Is the final product 
> changed based on feedback from the reviewers as editors? Or is this a 
> marketing type review, to help determine potential  sales and hence the 
> size of the press run?  As I have only published tech stuff in 
> magazines, I am clueless about books, other than I'm on the list for 
> 'Murder' when .uk ships!
>

Review copies of the books are identical.  The other item sent out for 
review are galley proofs, aka "gallies," or "proofs," which are the 
uncorrected text.  They are considered collectable and are clearly 
marked as proofs.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Subject: Re: (OT) TV
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*** EOOH ***
From: RBlackley@aol.com
Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 17:53:55 EDT
Subject: Re: (OT) TV
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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I don;t know about Ray, I have a Samsung TV and it works great and has done 
for 5 and 1/2 years.
       Richard

-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
"Wit is cultured insolence"
                         Aristotle
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-

In a message dated 4/16/2002 10:41:32 AM Eastern Daylight Time, 
Smenick@aol.com writes:


> I found a HDTV 27' from Samsung with a ton of inputs for around the price I 
> am looking at. Has anyone ever bought a Samsung TV? I know they make decent 
> 
> phones and their plasmas don't seem that bad.
> But I am wary of a TV from Samsung. Should I be?
> 
> -Sean


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                         Aristotle
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Subject: Re: Used Books
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*** EOOH ***
From: RBlackley@aol.com
Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 18:02:30 EDT
Subject: Re: Used Books
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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Hey, it was clear to me in the beginning.
Richard

In a message dated 4/16/2002 5:54:22 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
raymond@bittersea.com writes:


> OK, let me try this again to see if I can make this clear:
> 
> No one is "against used books."
> 
> I love used book stores.  I love out-of-print books that I can't get 
> anywhere else being available.
> 
> I don't object to used book web sites.
> 
> I don't object to collectors paying outrageous sums for out-of-print 
> books, such as mine.
> 
> What I do object to is AMAZON being in the used book business THE WAY 
> THEY CHOSE TO DO IT.
> 
> I'm not against Barnes & Noble's used business, because they have it on 
> a different site.
> 
> I object to Amazon taking someone who has just clicked on my title to 
> "put in their shopping basket," being told, "What it cheaper?  We have 
> it used!"  or words to that effect.
> 
> I would not utter one word of complaint if Amazon had a separate site 
> the way B&N does.
> 
> But I am furious they would set up a system that effectively tries to 
> yank a sale out from under me at the cash register.  And they are not 
> even doing it with books they have!  They're doing it with OTHER 
> PEOPLE'S INVENTORY!  And they're getting that inventory by putting 
> another button next to my book saying, "Do you have this book to sell?"
> 
> Also keep in mind scale.  A used bookstore is a tiny business.  Amazon 
> is the biggest bookseller in the world.  All the used booksellers in the 
> United States together don't come close to Amazon's volume.
> 
> OK, is it clear now why I'm opposed to Amazon.com's used book policy?
> 
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
> 
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
> stupidity.
> 


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                         Aristotle
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*** EOOH ***
From: RBlackley@aol.com
Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 18:16:08 EDT
Subject: Re: Used Books
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Hey, it was clear to me in the beginning.
Richard

In a message dated 4/16/2002 5:54:22 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
raymond@bittersea.com writes:


> OK, let me try this again to see if I can make this clear:
> 
> No one is "against used books."
> 
> I love used book stores.  I love out-of-print books that I can't get 
> anywhere else being available.
> 
> I don't object to used book web sites.
> 
> I don't object to collectors paying outrageous sums for out-of-print 
> books, such as mine.
> 
> What I do object to is AMAZON being in the used book business THE WAY 
> THEY CHOSE TO DO IT.
> 
> I'm not against Barnes & Noble's used business, because they have it on 
> a different site.
> 
> I object to Amazon taking someone who has just clicked on my title to 
> "put in their shopping basket," being told, "What it cheaper?  We have 
> it used!"  or words to that effect.
> 
> I would not utter one word of complaint if Amazon had a separate site 
> the way B&N does.
> 
> But I am furious they would set up a system that effectively tries to 
> yank a sale out from under me at the cash register.  And they are not 
> even doing it with books they have!  They're doing it with OTHER 
> PEOPLE'S INVENTORY!  And they're getting that inventory by putting 
> another button next to my book saying, "Do you have this book to sell?"
> 
> Also keep in mind scale.  A used bookstore is a tiny business.  Amazon 
> is the biggest bookseller in the world.  All the used booksellers in the 
> United States together don't come close to Amazon's volume.
> 
> OK, is it clear now why I'm opposed to Amazon.com's used book policy?
> 
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
> 
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
> stupidity.
> 


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                         Aristotle
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*** EOOH ***
From: RBlackley@aol.com
Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 18:18:10 EDT
Subject: Posting
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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Hey I have a slightly OT question about the list, does anyone post to the 
address or do they just reply to an earlier messge and change the subject?  
Like I just did.

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                         Aristotle
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*** EOOH ***
From: RBlackley@aol.com
Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 18:16:24 EDT
Subject: Re: (OT) TV
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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I don;t know about Ray, I have a Samsung TV and it works great and has done 
for 5 and 1/2 years.
       Richard

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"Wit is cultured insolence"
                         Aristotle
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-

In a message dated 4/16/2002 10:41:32 AM Eastern Daylight Time, 
Smenick@aol.com writes:


> I found a HDTV 27' from Samsung with a ton of inputs for around the price I 
> am looking at. Has anyone ever bought a Samsung TV? I know they make decent 
> 
> phones and their plasmas don't seem that bad.
> But I am wary of a TV from Samsung. Should I be?
> 
> -Sean


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                         Aristotle
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 16:34:27 -0600
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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Joel Rosenberg wrote:
> 
> Review copies are usually "bound galleys" -- the
> text is the same, minus last-minute proofreading/corrections, but they're
> "perfect bound" (just glue), and usually (but not always) without the
> cover/jacket art.

Oddly enough, Margaret Weis had just posted last night on the
alt.fan.dragonlance newsgroup that she had spotted two galley proofs of
her and Hickman's upcoming Dragonlance book, Dragons of a Vanished Moon,
on eBay.
She seemed to be more worried about people buying these (with the actual
release still 2 months away) and spoiling the books, along with all the
editorially work still to be done.

Somebody went looking for them they were apparently removed, thankfully.

Craig J. Ries



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 16:44:10 -0600
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Review copies
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"Craig J. Ries" wrote:
> 
> Somebody went looking for them they were apparently removed, thankfully.

Err, guess not. They were sold.

Wouldn't the fact that the picture shows the cover with the words "NOT
FOR RESALE" give anybody a clue?

Craig J. Ries



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From: Tim Nicholas <tim@nicholas.net.nz>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 10:48:43 +1200
From: Tim Nicholas <tim@nicholas.net.nz>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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Hello,

I prefer that people actually post to the list if it is a new topic,
since my mail client does threading. If you just reply to a previous
post and change the subject then the new thread will all be in the
middle of a previous thread. 
Not hugly important, but on the otherhand, it doesn't take much
effort either, and it is preferable.

Tim

On Wed, Apr 17, 2002 at 06:18:10PM -0400, RBlackley@aol.com wrote:
> Hey I have a slightly OT question about the list, does anyone post to the 
> address or do they just reply to an earlier messge and change the subject?  
> Like I just did.
> 
> -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
> "Wit is cultured insolence"
>                          Aristotle
> -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
> 
> 

-- 
Tim Nicholas                          ||                      Cilix
Email: tim@nicholas.net.nz            ||              ICQ# 15869961
http://tim.nicholas.net.nz/           ||       Dunedin, New Zealand
"Grow up, Larry. You give me too much credit." - Linus Torvalds



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*** EOOH ***
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From: "Damian Dyer" <Levic@tsurani.freeuk.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Review copies
Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 00:06:58 +0100
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> "Craig J. Ries" wrote:
> >
> > Somebody went looking for them they were apparently removed, thankfully.
>
> Err, guess not. They were sold.
>
> Wouldn't the fact that the picture shows the cover with the words "NOT
> FOR RESALE" give anybody a clue?
>

Nah, I think that just bumps up the price doesn't it *sarc* ?

Damian



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Subject: Re: Other Alternatives
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Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 17:42:25 -0700
Subject: Re: Other Alternatives
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Tuesday, April 16, 2002, at 10:26 PM, rob tavares wrote:

> All in all, I'm not sure how I feel about the ethics of selling/buying 
> used books. I buy one or two used paperbacks a month. Sort of to feel 
> out an author. paying 2.50 for a book your not even sure your going to 
> like is reasonable. 7+ to me is not. Once I get the feel of an author I 
> fully invest in the first hand books.
>  
> hey Ray, what are your thoughts behind the sudden lull in interest in 
> fantasy/sci-fi books?

First of all, there's no "lull" in interest in fantasy.  Even if you 
take Harry Potter and the bump the film gave LOTR out of the picture, 
fantasy is moving right along.  SF, on the other hand, is slowly dying 
before our eyes, as it has been for the last five or six years.

>  
> imo, it has to do with the lack of original writers and a plethora of 
> sponges.
> In 11 years of reading fantasy I've managed to find 3 out of 40+ 
> authors who maintained a high level of originality.
> Mr. Feist himself.
> Piers Anthony, the perverted pun-ist himself.
> and Le Modesitt Jr.
>  
> Now, don't get me wrong, I fully understand the concept of pulling 
> concepts from the materials available to us....But how many  
> philosophers from Greece do people remember today? The same will follow 
> for the authors of today in a thousand years :).

Define people.  I have several friends who can quote Aristotle.
>  
> ps. Strangely enough, Modesitt is, despite his originality, a heavily 
> overlooked author. A popular concept seems to be that he writes too 
> in-depth, builds the characters to well and to personally. ... ...

Hardly.  No one loses readership because he/she does "too well."   If 
you follow that logic, the answer would be, "Write less well; you'll 
sell more," which is nonsense. This is part of the "if it's popular, it 
can't be good," nonsense.  Lee's problems are mostly marketing. There 
are very good writers who only appeal to a small segment of the reading 
public, such as Jim Morrow or Tim Powers.  They don't write "too well," 
rather they write odd and quirky stuff that doesn't appeal to the 
audience a Tom Clancy draws.


Best, R.E.F.

----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.

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From: "Natalie Henderson" <natz101@hotmail.com>
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Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 10:12:43 +0000
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>At 12:40 PM 4/17/02, Natalie Henderson wrote:
>...I thought yours was really good! Definitely very clever! :)
>
>Thanks!  You'll have to wait until November for the sequel ;->
>
>rip
>

awww, no fair!! ;)


_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com



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Having read many of Modesitt's books I have to say that his writting may 
set off some readers. IIRC I was very impressed with the first book I 
read and then slowly got disenchanted, the storyline just wouldn't carry 
me along (and there was some horible editing in some of the books, not 
Modesitt's fault obviously, much of a story's meaning can be lost by 
inconsiderate cutting). Modesitt was also the first author who got me 
angry enough to start to rewrite a book (as an excercise obviously, and 
this was due to questions being left unresolved at the end, I am 100% 
certain that this was not the case in the original script). Once the 
Recluse series ended, I decided not to continue on to his new books (I 
had never picked up his other older series either).

Of course my issue with L.E. Modesitt Jr. might also have been that I 
could not agree with his Chaos/Order theories (it may be fantasy but it 
clashes with my vision of the world).

Still, even today I would recommend his books to other readers.

Marc aka Caran...

Raymond Feist wrote:

>
> On Tuesday, April 16, 2002, at 10:26 PM, rob tavares wrote:
>
>
>      
>     ps. Strangely enough, Modesitt is, despite his originality, a
>     heavily overlooked author. A popular concept seems to be that he
>     writes too in-depth, builds the characters to well and to
>     personally. ... ...
>
>
> Hardly. No one loses readership because he/she does "too well." If you 
> follow that logic, the answer would be, "Write less well; you'll sell 
> more," which is nonsense. This is part of the "if it's popular, it 
> can't be good," nonsense. Lee's problems are mostly marketing. There 
> are very good writers who only appeal to a small segment of the 
> reading public, such as Jim Morrow or Tim Powers. They don't write 
> "too well," rather they write odd and quirky stuff that doesn't appeal 
> to the audience a Tom Clancy draws.
>
>
> Best, R.E.F.
>
> ----
>
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
> stupidity.





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Subject: Styles of writing
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From: Kenneth Jones <killkenny@thos.co.za>
Subject: Styles of writing
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Hello Ray and the list.

I noticed on your books there is a quote that mentions you write "Epic 
Fantasy", and on some of David Gemmells books there is a quote that 
mentions something about "Heroic Fantasy".

Is there more than one kind of fantasy?
Are there more than the two I have mentioned above?
and
Have you ever tried writing Heroic, or any other type of "non-epic" fantasy?

Thanks a lot.

Regards,
Kenneth



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There are numerous names, some really mean the same thing.

Others  would be:

Sword and Sorcery
High Fantasy
Science Fantasy (I believe Tracy Hickman once used that term)
and many others

And don't ask me to define them.

Though there are some clear distinctions between David Gemell and ray's 
writting which would explain the different descriptions.

Marc aka Caran...

Kenneth Jones wrote:

> Hello Ray and the list.
>
> I noticed on your books there is a quote that mentions you write "Epic 
> Fantasy", and on some of David Gemmells books there is a quote that 
> mentions something about "Heroic Fantasy".
>
> Is there more than one kind of fantasy?
> Are there more than the two I have mentioned above?
> and
> Have you ever tried writing Heroic, or any other type of "non-epic" 
> fantasy?
>
> Thanks a lot.
>
> Regards,
> Kenneth
>
>



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Hi Ray (or anyone else in the know), I have a two questions for you:

1. Once the Sauur claimed the Thunderhell Stepps in SoaBK, what happened to 
the Nomads that previously lived there, are they slaughtered, driven off, or 
do they reach some sort of "understanding" with the Sauur?

2. Isn't the Teeth of the World the border between the Kingdom and the 
Northlands? If so, why then does Partick claim that the Thunderhell Stepps 
is part of "his realm?"

Thanks

Jimmy



_________________________________________________________________
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Subject: Re: Styles of writing
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Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 09:27:24 -0700
Subject: Re: Styles of writing
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Thursday, April 18, 2002, at 04:36 AM, Kenneth Jones wrote:

> Hello Ray and the list.
>
> I noticed on your books there is a quote that mentions you write "Epic 
> Fantasy", and on some of David Gemmells books there is a quote that 
> mentions something about "Heroic Fantasy".
>
> Is there more than one kind of fantasy?
> Are there more than the two I have mentioned above?
> and
> Have you ever tried writing Heroic, or any other type of "non-epic" 
> fantasy?
>

Never confuse what a blurb writer for a publisher puts on the jacket of 
the book, or how a reviewer labels a work as having any relationship to 
reality.

"Epic" has come to mean "big," ala "Cecil B. DeMille's Epic, The Ten 
Commandments!"

In literary terms, an Epic is any story that reflects the values of the 
culture originating the story.  For example, you want to learn a lot 
about how Pre-Hellenic Greeks viewed the Universe, read the Iliad and 
the Odyssey.  The Iliad is big, many characters, great dramatic 
presentation of a huge war, starting with the Rage of Achilles through 
the fall of Ilium, etc.  The Odyssey, on the other hand, is the story of 
one man, his ten year voyage home to his wife and son.  Yet both give 
you keen insight into how the Greeks of the era viewed the world around 
them, a hostile, dangerous place, controlled by capricious gods who 
bestowed and removed favor at whim.

"Heroic" means about a hero (or larger than life if you're talking about 
statues).

"High fantasy," has come to mean Tolkein-esque, to differentiate it from 
"Pulp" fantasy, which is what R.E. Howard was writing with his Conan, 
Kull, and Solomon Kane stories.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 09:29:44 -0700
Subject: Re: Thunderhell Nomads, et. al.
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
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On Thursday, April 18, 2002, at 06:06 AM, James Silva wrote:

> Hi Ray (or anyone else in the know), I have a two questions for you:
>
> 1. Once the Sauur claimed the Thunderhell Stepps in SoaBK, what 
> happened to the Nomads that previously lived there, are they 
> slaughtered, driven off, or do they reach some sort of "understanding" 
> with the Sauur?

The Nomads avoided the Sauur until they left.

>
> 2. Isn't the Teeth of the World the border between the Kingdom and the 
> Northlands? If so, why then does Partick claim that the Thunderhell 
> Stepps is part of "his realm?"
>

People claim all kinds of things, as do nations.  The Thunderhell is 
"part" of the Kingdom insofar as the Kingdom is very concerned about who 
might be living there and tries to control it.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of James Silva
> Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2002 8:07 AM
> To: FEISTFANS-L
> Subject: Thunderhell Nomads, et. al.
<snip>
> 2. Isn't the Teeth of the World the border between the
> Kingdom and the
> Northlands? If so, why then does Partick claim that the
> Thunderhell Stepps
> is part of "his realm?"

Ummm... as far as I can tell, Patrick claims just about anything and
everything he wants.  He's a snot nosed little spoiled kid who just happens
to have an extensive amount of power.  (Sorta like the popular rich kids in
HS who would do anything and be able to get away with it just because of who
they are.) He's also a lot like George Minafer in _The Magnificent
Ambersons_ by Booth Tarkington.  He's gonna have one hell of a comeuppance
in his future if all is to be equal (but only Ray knows for sure).

When I read the relevant texts, I kept wanting to give the kid a walloping.
I was also waiting intently for the equivilent of "I worked with John
Kennedy, I knew John Kennedy... you sir, are no John Kennedy." to come out
of Pugs mouth. (Which they do at the end sorta.)

Patrick annoys the piss out of me.  Especially since he disregards advice
from Pug and Thomas so readily... (Like, umm.. they've been advising Kings
of the Realm for generations... I'd listen to them!)

Just my $.02,
-TerriLyn



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From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re: Thunderhell Nomads, et. al.
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Thanks you Ray for the insight. Will we ever read about when the Sauur leave 
or will it just happen sometime in the future, but not be addressed by the 
novels?

Jimmy

>From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
>Subject: Re: Thunderhell Nomads, et. al.
>Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 09:29:44 -0700
>
>
>On Thursday, April 18, 2002, at 06:06 AM, James Silva wrote:
>
>>Hi Ray (or anyone else in the know), I have a two questions for you:
>>
>>1. Once the Sauur claimed the Thunderhell Stepps in SoaBK, what
>>happened to the Nomads that previously lived there, are they
>>slaughtered, driven off, or do they reach some sort of "understanding"
>>with the Sauur?
>
>The Nomads avoided the Sauur until they left.
>
>>
>>2. Isn't the Teeth of the World the border between the Kingdom and the
>>Northlands? If so, why then does Partick claim that the Thunderhell
>>Stepps is part of "his realm?"
>>
>
>People claim all kinds of things, as do nations.  The Thunderhell is
>"part" of the Kingdom insofar as the Kingdom is very concerned about who
>might be living there and tries to control it.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
>stupidity.
>


_________________________________________________________________
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Subject: Re: Thunderhell Nomads, et. al.
Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 13:52:28 -0400
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From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Thunderhell Nomads, et. al.
Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 13:52:28 -0400
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>From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
>Subject: Re: Thunderhell Nomads, et. al.
>Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 09:29:44 -0700
>
>
>On Thursday, April 18, 2002, at 06:06 AM, James Silva wrote:
>
>>Hi Ray (or anyone else in the know), I have a two questions for you:
>>
>>1. Once the Sauur claimed the Thunderhell Stepps in SoaBK, what
>>happened to the Nomads that previously lived there, are they
>>slaughtered, driven off, or do they reach some sort of "understanding"
>>with the Sauur?
>
>The Nomads avoided the Sauur until they left.
>
>>
>>2. Isn't the Teeth of the World the border between the Kingdom and the
>>Northlands? If so, why then does Partick claim that the Thunderhell
>>Stepps is part of "his realm?"
>>
>
>People claim all kinds of things, as do nations.  The Thunderhell is
>"part" of the Kingdom insofar as the Kingdom is very concerned about who
>might be living there and tries to control it.

Kinda like how the U.S. considers the western hemisphere as its realm 
(Monroe Doctrin) even though most of the western hemisphere is not US soil?

Jimmy


>Best, R.E.F.
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
>stupidity.
>


_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx



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Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 11:24:13 -0700
Subject: Re: Thunderhell Nomads, et. al.
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Thursday, April 18, 2002, at 10:47 AM, James Silva wrote:

> Thanks you Ray for the insight. Will we ever read about when the Sauur 
> leave or will it just happen sometime in the future, but not be 
> addressed by the novels?
>
The Sauur are currently in residence on the high plateau portion of the 
continent of Wynet.  How Pug got them there is unknown (but a rift is a 
very good bet) and that took place between Shards and Talon.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Subject: Re: Thunderhell Nomads, et. al.
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Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 11:25:16 -0700
Subject: Re: Thunderhell Nomads, et. al.
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Thursday, April 18, 2002, at 10:52 AM, James Silva wrote:

>
>
>
>> From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
>> Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
>> Subject: Re: Thunderhell Nomads, et. al.
>> Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 09:29:44 -0700
>>
>>
>> On Thursday, April 18, 2002, at 06:06 AM, James Silva wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Ray (or anyone else in the know), I have a two questions for you:
>>>
>>> 1. Once the Sauur claimed the Thunderhell Stepps in SoaBK, what
>>> happened to the Nomads that previously lived there, are they
>>> slaughtered, driven off, or do they reach some sort of "understanding"
>>> with the Sauur?
>>
>> The Nomads avoided the Sauur until they left.
>>
>>>
>>> 2. Isn't the Teeth of the World the border between the Kingdom and the
>>> Northlands? If so, why then does Partick claim that the Thunderhell
>>> Stepps is part of "his realm?"
>>>
>>
>> People claim all kinds of things, as do nations.  The Thunderhell is
>> "part" of the Kingdom insofar as the Kingdom is very concerned about 
>> who
>> might be living there and tries to control it.
>
> Kinda like how the U.S. considers the western hemisphere as its realm 
> (Monroe Doctrin) even though most of the western hemisphere is not US 
> soil?
>
No, more like how the old USSR viewed Finland, except imagine Finland 
populated by wandering tribes.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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From: JEEPMONSTER69@aol.com
Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 15:17:12 EDT
Subject: Re: Thunderhell Nomads, et. al.
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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In a message dated 4/18/2002 2:45:55 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
raymond@bittersea.com writes:


> The Sauur are currently in residence on the high plateau portion of the 
> continent of Wynet.  How Pug got them there is unknown (but a rift is a 
> very good bet) and that took place between Shards and Talon.
> 

Where exactly, as opposed to Triagia, is Wynet? Ive heard it before, but it's 
never really come up in any books other than the mentioning at the end of 
Magician.
                                                 

                                                             Peace,
                                                                   Matt
"Lets Roll."- Todd Beamer
USA, Muthafacko!

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Ray,

You have mentionned more than once the reasons behind the use of your
universe as fanfic, games etc. I especially recall the story you told
of one author who had once to rewrite a complete book because some
fanfic was actually using the same ideas as the book, and she was
afraid of being sued.

Now, I was wondering if this could apply to this list. For exemple,
let's say I suggest that it would be a great idea that the Saur
departed for that world and for that reason, and it turned out it's
what you had in mind and even it could already be written in the next
book. Is that kind of topic/suggestion a danger to you?

Just curious
Paddyjack


See Dave Matthews Band live or win a signed guitar
http://r.lycos.com/r/bmgfly_mail_dmb/http://win.ipromotions.com/lycos_020201/splash.asp 



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 14:20:09 -0700
Subject: Re: Thunderhell Nomads, et. al.
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Thursday, April 18, 2002, at 12:17 PM, JEEPMONSTER69@aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 4/18/2002 2:45:55 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> raymond@bittersea.com writes:
>
>
> The Sauur are currently in residence on the high plateau portion of the
> continent of Wynet.  How Pug got them there is unknown (but a rift is a
> very good bet) and that took place between Shards and Talon.
>
>
>
> Where exactly, as opposed to Triagia, is Wynet?

Due north.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
stupidity.

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Subject: Re: question about copyrights and suggestions on this list.
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Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 14:26:39 -0700
Subject: Re: question about copyrights and suggestions on this list.
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Thursday, April 18, 2002, at 01:57 PM, Paddyjack [ ] wrote:

> Ray,
>
> You have mentionned more than once the reasons behind the use of your 
> universe as fanfic, games etc. I especially recall the story you told 
> of one author who had once to rewrite a complete book because some 
> fanfic was actually using the same ideas as the book, and she was 
> afraid of being sued.

That was Marion Zimmer Bradley.  Marion thought of herself as a 
"mother/goddess of wannabe fantasy authors" and ran a group called 
Greyhaven.  She had a few writers make it to the pros, including Diana 
Paxon, Jacquelin Lichenberg, and Niki Hoffman.   And she was big on 
letting fans write Darkover stuff.

She was about half-way through a new Darkover novel when she read a fan 
story (for a 'zine she also published) and it had a similar idea to what 
she was doing.  So she contacted the writer of the story and said, "This 
would make a decent subplot to the book I'm working on.  Can I use it?"  
The fan writer responded with, "I want co-author's credit on the cover 
and 50% of royalties.  If you don't do this, I'll sue."  I'd have said, 
"Bring it on, sucker," but Marion didn't want to do the lawyer stuff. So 
rather than get litigious she threw away half a finished novel and went 
on to something else.  And with a lot of regret she cancelled all future 
fan fiction.   She was very upset and never had the same view of fans 
again.

> Now, I was wondering if this could apply to this list. For exemple, 
> let's say I suggest that it would be a great idea that the Saur 
> departed for that world and for that reason, and it turned out it's 
> what you had in mind and even it could already be written in the next 
> book. Is that kind of topic/suggestion a danger to you?
>

Nope.  You can't copyright an idea.  You can only copyright the specific 
expression of an idea, i.e. the music, pictures, words, whatever.   So, 
anyone can write a "boy grows up to be a powerful magician" story.  Just 
don't put Tsurani and rifts and the Kingdom of the Isles and Pug and 
Tomas in it if you don't want to end up in court.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Subject: Re: question about copyrights and suggestions on this list.
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From: Joel Rosenberg <joelr@ellegon.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L), "Paddyjack [ ]" <erykel@lycos.com>
Subject: Re: question about copyrights and suggestions on this list.
Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 16:22:33 -0500
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On Thursday 18 April 2002 03:57 pm, Paddyjack [ ] wrote:
> Ray,
>
> You have mentionned more than once the reasons behind the use of your
> universe as fanfic, games etc. I especially recall the story you told of
> one author who had once to rewrite a complete book because some fanfic was
> actually using the same ideas as the book, and she was afraid of being
> sued.
>
> Now, I was wondering if this could apply to this list. For exemple, let's
> say I suggest that it would be a great idea that the Saur departed for that
> world and for that reason, and it turned out it's what you had in mind and
> even it could already be written in the next book. Is that kind of
> topic/suggestion a danger to you?
>
> Just curious
> Paddyjack
>
>
> See Dave Matthews Band live or win a signed guitar
> http://r.lycos.com/r/bmgfly_mail_dmb/http://win.ipromotions.com/lycos_02020
>1/splash.asp

Ideas aren't copywritable; the order of words is.  Ray is hardly the only 
person to write about an inter-universe war, for example.  I'm hardly the 
only person to put a bunch of FRP gamers in the world of their game.  



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From: David Smith <david.m.smith@Sun.COM>
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Raymond Feist wrote:

> Never confuse what a blurb writer for a publisher puts on the jacket of
> the book, or how a reviewer labels a work as having any relationship to
> reality.
>
> <snip>
>
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
>
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
> stupidity.

Speaking of blurb writing... I was in a book store the other day looking around
when I noticed the re-print of Jack Vance's Dying Earth series (Dying Earth,
Cugels Saga, Rhialto the Marvelous all in one book). Since my copy of Cugels
Saga went missing some time ago I have been trying to replace it, so I picked up
this edition, turned it over, and was greated by a blurb attributed to one
Raymond E. Fiest :)

Ray, have you read much of Jack Vance's stuff?  Aside from a tendancy to turn a
rather "flowery" phrase now and then, I find him to be an amazing writer...
although he has been known to go a little "Doc Smith" in his dialogue on
occasions :-)

-- David Smith



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Ray, you are just a font of knowledge. One would think you were one of the 
creators of this world or something.

Anyway, are the two continents seperated by a north pole? Or, does Triagia 
not really have a cold north, ie, are the Northlands temperate all the way 
to the norther shores?

Jimmy

>From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
>Subject: Re: Thunderhell Nomads, et. al.
>Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 14:20:09 -0700
>
>
>On Thursday, April 18, 2002, at 12:17 PM, JEEPMONSTER69@aol.com wrote:
>
>>In a message dated 4/18/2002 2:45:55 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
>>raymond@bittersea.com writes:
>>
>>
>>The Sauur are currently in residence on the high plateau portion of the
>>continent of Wynet.  How Pug got them there is unknown (but a rift is a
>>very good bet) and that took place between Shards and Talon.
>>
>>
>>
>>Where exactly, as opposed to Triagia, is Wynet?
>
>Due north.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
>stupidity.


_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com



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> She was about half-way through a new Darkover novel when she read a fan
> story (for a 'zine she also published) and it had a similar idea to what
> she was doing.  So she contacted the writer of the story and said, "This
> would make a decent subplot to the book I'm working on.  Can I use it?"
> The fan writer responded with, "I want co-author's credit on the cover
> and 50% of royalties.  If you don't do this, I'll sue."  I'd have said,
> "Bring it on, sucker," but Marion didn't want to do the lawyer stuff. So
> rather than get litigious she threw away half a finished novel and went
> on to something else.  And with a lot of regret she cancelled all future
> fan fiction.   She was very upset and never had the same view of fans
> again.

    Geez, what a horrible fan. I would have asked for maybe a mention of my
name or something, just because I came up with part of the plot.  I would
love seeing my name on/in a book from one of my favorite writers.  I cant
imagine anyone passing something like that up.

Rich



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Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 17:31:19 -0600
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: question about copyrights and suggestions on this list.
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Rich wrote:
> 
> I would love seeing my name on/in a book from one of my favorite
> writers.  I cant imagine anyone passing something like that up.

A few Dragonlance fans have gotten that wish.

Margaret Weis and her husband, Don Perrin, included some names of
well-known fans from online forums in the book Draconian Measures.

Much to the chagrine of us all, however, the one "fan" that got the most
mention in the book was a former troll of the alt.fan.dragonlance
newsgroup (easily the most infamous one). That particular character died
a nice, horrible death though :)

Craig J. Ries



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From: Valheru22@aol.com
Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 19:39:10 EDT
Subject: Re: question about copyrights and suggestions on this list.
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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In a message dated 4/18/2002 4:37:23 PM Pacific Standard Time, 
richse@eden.rutgers.edu writes:


> She was about half-way through a new Darkover novel when she read a fan
> > story (for a 'zine she also published) and it had a similar idea to what
> > she was doing.  So she contacted the writer of the story and said, "This
> > would make a decent subplot to the book I'm working on.  Can I use it?"
> > The fan writer responded with, "I want co-author's credit on the cover
> > and 50% of royalties.  If you don't do this, I'll sue."  I'd have said,
> > "Bring it on, sucker," but Marion didn't want to do the lawyer stuff. So
> > rather than get litigious she threw away half a finished novel and went
> > on to something else.  And with a lot of regret she cancelled all future
> > fan fiction.   She was very upset and never had the same view of fans
> > again.
> 

Thats messed up. That is a real crappy fan.

 -Chance
"We who stand alone, are truly brave" -The Rock

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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 16:43:24 -0700
Subject: Re: Styles of writing
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Thursday, April 18, 2002, at 03:08 PM, David Smith wrote:

> Raymond Feist wrote:
>
>> Never confuse what a blurb writer for a publisher puts on the jacket of
>> the book, or how a reviewer labels a work as having any relationship to
>> reality.
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>> Best, R.E.F.
>> ----
>>
>> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
>> stupidity.
>
> Speaking of blurb writing... I was in a book store the other day 
> looking around
> when I noticed the re-print of Jack Vance's Dying Earth series (Dying 
> Earth,
> Cugels Saga, Rhialto the Marvelous all in one book). Since my copy of 
> Cugels
> Saga went missing some time ago I have been trying to replace it, so I 
> picked up
> this edition, turned it over, and was greated by a blurb attributed to 
> one
> Raymond E. Fiest :)

Christ!  Did I blurb Jack?  Shows you how the memory is the second thing 
to go with old age.  (Before you ask,the first is your ability to go 
left on a hot ground ball to third base).

>
> Ray, have you read much of Jack Vance's stuff?  Aside from a tendancy 
> to turn a
> rather "flowery" phrase now and then, I find him to be an amazing 
> writer...
> although he has been known to go a little "Doc Smith" in his dialogue on
> occasions :-)
>

Well, look at the copyright of the stuff you're taking about.  We're 
looking forty years ago at least with that stuff.  I love The Dragon 
Masters, and the Dying Earth Stuff, and stole . . . er, borrowed some 
concepts for Kelwan from his book Big Planet.

Ya, Jack was a guy I grew up reading.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 16:44:15 -0700
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 16:44:15 -0700
Subject: Re: Thunderhell Nomads, et. al.
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
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On Thursday, April 18, 2002, at 03:29 PM, James Silva wrote:

> Ray, you are just a font of knowledge. One would think you were one of 
> the creators of this world or something.
>
> Anyway, are the two continents seperated by a north pole? Or, does 
> Triagia not really have a cold north, ie, are the Northlands temperate 
> all the way to the norther shores?
>

Midkemia has a North Pole.  Got no Santa Claus, though.

Best, R.E.F.

----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 10:17:43 +1000 (GMT+1000)
From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
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> > Thanks you Ray for the insight. Will we ever read about when the Sauur
> > leave or will it just happen sometime in the future, but not be
> > addressed by the novels?
> The Sauur are currently in residence on the high plateau portion of the
> continent of Wynet.  How Pug got them there is unknown (but a rift is a
> very good bet) and that took place between Shards and Talon.
> Best, R.E.F.

Would the Sauur be generally still hostile to the humans, even after the
efforts of Pug to find them a new homeland?

Thanks
Darragh
================================================
University of Queensland
Information Technology / Arts (History) student
[Email #1] s356179@student.uq.edu.au
[Email #2] squik@solutionone.com.au
[Web Site] http://hainsworth.ath.cx/~squik/
================================================



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*** EOOH ***
From: "rob tavares" <vze26fdh@verizon.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: question about copyrights and suggestions on this list.
Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 20:54:55 -0700
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The fan was an idiot. Should have let it get published, then she'd
have had some formal stance in the writing industry :P. What are the
chances that /any/ author would agree to losing 50% of the royalties?
Unless of course they were 2/3rds the way through a bottle of JD.
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: Valheru22@aol.com 
>To: FEISTFANS-L 
>Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2002 4:39 PM
>Subject: Re: question about copyrights and suggestions on this list.
>
>
>In a message dated 4/18/2002 4:37:23 PM Pacific Standard Time, richse@eden.rutgers.edu writes:
>
>
>
>  She was about half-way through a new Darkover novel when she read a fan
>  > story (for a 'zine she also published) and it had a similar idea to what
>  > she was doing.  So she contacted the writer of the story and said, "This
>  > would make a decent subplot to the book I'm working on.  Can I use it?"
>  > The fan writer responded with, "I want co-author's credit on the cover
>  > and 50% of royalties.  If you don't do this, I'll sue."  I'd have said,
>  > "Bring it on, sucker," but Marion didn't want to do the lawyer stuff. So
>  > rather than get litigious she threw away half a finished novel and went
>  > on to something else.  And with a lot of regret she cancelled all future
>  > fan fiction.   She was very upset and never had the same view of fans
>  > again.
>
>
>
>Thats messed up. That is a real crappy fan.
>
>-Chance
>"We who stand alone, are truly brave" -The Rock

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Subject: Re: question about copyrights and suggestions on this list.
Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 20:42:17 -0500
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: question about copyrights and suggestions on this list.
Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 20:42:17 -0500
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    All I can say is that in Scientific Journal Papers it is
appropriate to co-author only with those who did a large amount of
the work, and acknowledge the help and influence of others who
helped in small ways to make the project succeed.  Anyone asking for
Co-authorship on a paper they aren't part of directly should be
smacked up side the head with a 2x4, and I feel about the same with
fans who act in a similar manner with their favorite authors, this
being one of the best examples.  This is part of the reason I write
my own fantasy material rather than trying to plagiarize someone
else's.

-James

----- Original Message -----

> > She was about half-way through a new Darkover novel when she read a fan
> > story (for a 'zine she also published) and it had a similar idea to what
> > she was doing.  So she contacted the writer of the story and said, "This
> > would make a decent subplot to the book I'm working on.  Can I use it?"
> > The fan writer responded with, "I want co-author's credit on the cover
> > and 50% of royalties.  If you don't do this, I'll sue."  I'd have said,
> > "Bring it on, sucker," but Marion didn't want to do the lawyer stuff. So
> > rather than get litigious she threw away half a finished novel and went
> > on to something else.  And with a lot of regret she cancelled all future
> > fan fiction.   She was very upset and never had the same view of fans
> > again.
>
>     Geez, what a horrible fan. I would have asked for maybe a mention of my
> name or something, just because I came up with part of the plot. I would
> love seeing my name on/in a book from one of my favorite writers. I cant
> imagine anyone passing something like that up.
>
> Rich
>



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Subject: Re: Styles of writing
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Julie Wootten" <wootten@xtra.co.nz>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Styles of writing
Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 14:05:07 +1200
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Raymond Feist" <raymond@bittersea.com>
> Never confuse what a blurb writer for a publisher puts on the jacket of
> the book, or how a reviewer labels a work as having any relationship to
> reality.

I purchased David Feintuch's "Midshipman's Hope" partially because it
seemed like a good book, and partially because Ray said it was
"Wonderful reading and non-stop enjoyment..."
At least that label related well to reality, since after buying the first
book,
reading it without putting it down, I then rushed out to buy every other
one in the series I could find.

Ray, what you say indicates that most reviewers don't actually read the
book, or that what they actually think of it has little to do with what
comment is attributed to them.  Is it really that mercenary?  To lie, or let
your name be put to a lie for $$?

Julie.





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Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 19:20:56 -0700
Subject: Re: Thunderhell Nomads, et. al.
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 19:20:56 -0700
Subject: Re: Thunderhell Nomads, et. al.
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Thursday, April 18, 2002, at 05:17 PM, Darragh Murray wrote:

>>> Thanks you Ray for the insight. Will we ever read about when the Sauur
>>> leave or will it just happen sometime in the future, but not be
>>> addressed by the novels?
>> The Sauur are currently in residence on the high plateau portion of the
>> continent of Wynet.  How Pug got them there is unknown (but a rift is a
>> very good bet) and that took place between Shards and Talon.
>> Best, R.E.F.
>
> Would the Sauur be generally still hostile to the humans, even after the
> efforts of Pug to find them a new homeland?
>

They don't like non-Sauur.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 19:24:09 -0700
Subject: Re: Styles of writing
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On Thursday, April 18, 2002, at 07:05 PM, Julie Wootten wrote:

> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Raymond Feist" <raymond@bittersea.com>
>> Never confuse what a blurb writer for a publisher puts on the jacket of
>> the book, or how a reviewer labels a work as having any relationship to
>> reality.
>
> I purchased David Feintuch's "Midshipman's Hope" partially because it
> seemed like a good book, and partially because Ray said it was
> "Wonderful reading and non-stop enjoyment..."
> At least that label related well to reality, since after buying the 
> first
> book,
> reading it without putting it down, I then rushed out to buy every other
> one in the series I could find.
>
> Ray, what you say indicates that most reviewers don't actually read the
> book, or that what they actually think of it has little to do with what
> comment is attributed to them.  Is it really that mercenary?  To lie, 
> or let
> your name be put to a lie for $$?
>

I have no idea what you're asking in the last question.  Reviewers who 
don't read the books don't stay reviewers very long.

Now, if you're asking do most reviewers have a clue, the answer is no.  
Because like any other kind of writing, 90% of it is crud, to quote Ted 
Sturgeon.

As for blurbs, we always mean what we say.  I thought all of Feintuch's 
books were great, except the last one (Voices of Hope?  I forgot the 
title) where I think he got off the mark a bit, but the first three were 
great.

As for mercenary, if you mean reviewers, many of them don't get paid, 
unless it's for larger newspapers or magazines.  If you mean blurbs, no 
one gets paid.  Those are always done gratis.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 20:57:11 -0600
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Styles of writing
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Raymond Feist wrote:
> 
> If you mean blurbs, no one gets paid.  Those are always done gratis.

Yeah, I've read some really pathetic blurbs.
Makes me want to ignore them in general anymore. Kinda like all the
"glowing reviews" for every single movie ever released :)

Craig J. Ries



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To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
References: <878CE333-533C-11D6-A41F-003065A8A644@bittersea.com>
Subject: Re: Styles of writing
Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 15:30:35 +1200
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Julie Wootten" <wootten@xtra.co.nz>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Styles of writing
Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 15:30:35 +1200
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> As for mercenary, if you mean reviewers, many of them don't get paid,
> unless it's for larger newspapers or magazines.  If you mean blurbs, no
> one gets paid.  Those are always done gratis.
>
> Best, R.E.F.

Ah, that was where I was confused.  I assumed that there was monetary
reward for the use of your name and a positive recommendation on the
book cover.  I do tend to keep an eye on who writes what blurb on books
I'm interested in.  If I read a book, and don't like it, I view the blurb
writers in addition to that particular author with greater suspicion.

As for Feintuch, I agree with you.  The first four were great, I didn't
enjoy
Voices of Hope so much, but Patriarch's Hope (the newest one) is better.
I was disappointed in his standalone "The Still".  I kept wanting to slap
around the main character.

Julie.





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Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 00:34:10 EDT
Subject: Re: Thunderhell Nomads, et. al.
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In a message dated 4/18/2002 10:49:18 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
raymond@bittersea.com writes:


> They don't like non-Sauur.
> 
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
> 

       What about the Pantathians- was it merely a physical similarity that 
made the Sauur trust them to a cartain degree?

                                                             Peace,
                                                                         Matt
"That Brown Patch needs a little H2O, Oh Yeah!!!"- DUFFMAN

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From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Thunderhell Nomads, et. al.
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Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 16:10:54 +1000 (GMT+1000)
From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Thunderhell Nomads, et. al.
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> > They don't like non-Sauur.
> > Best, R.E.F.
>        What about the Pantathians- was it merely a physical similarity that
> made the Sauur trust them to a cartain degree?

I would say they'd hate the pantathians even more than the humans, due to
their activities revealed to the Sauur by Hanam in Rage of a Demon King.

Thanks
Darragh
================================================
University of Queensland
Information Technology / Arts (History) student
[Email #1] s356179@student.uq.edu.au
[Email #2] squik@solutionone.com.au
[Web Site] http://hainsworth.ath.cx/~squik/
================================================



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Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 08:48:26 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Torstein Litlabø <litlaboe@online.no>
Subject: Re: question about copyrights and suggestions on this list.
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Hi!

Just found this interesting and thought I'd switch off lurking-mode to put 
in a question.

I don't have any plans to write anything, I'm just curious.

As you can't copyright an idea, just your expression of it, how far can you 
strech into someone elses domain before you get your fingers burnt?

E.g. take the Hall of Worlds. As we know it, it's virtually endless, so we 
don't know what it's like "in the other end". If someone decides to write a 
story from "the other end" of the Hall of Worlds, not using that name, 
describing it somewhat differently, no Honest John's, but still the same 
thing. How would that case stand legally? And what if it happens to be a 
"boy grows up to be a powerful magician" story, containing teleportation 
gates(equivalent to rifts, but described differently), and a kingdom/empire 
in peril.

Where can you draw the line and say: "Sorry pal, you crossed over. I'll see 
you in court!"?

Like I said, I'm not a writer, I'll never be a writer (I'm just a gambler 
who knows a few tricks :o), I'm just curious.

With regards
Torstein Litlaboe



>Nope.  You can't copyright an idea.  You can only copyright the specific 
>expression of an idea, i.e. the music, pictures, words, whatever.   So, 
>anyone can write a "boy grows up to be a powerful magician" story.  Just 
>don't put Tsurani and rifts and the Kingdom of the Isles and Pug and Tomas 
>in it if you don't want to end up in court.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
>stupidity.
>



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Ok, just finished watching the Musketeer and I thought it was a great movie.
I was curious though if anyone in the kingdom has a similiar fighting style?
I know the movie was a combo of eastern and western fighting... But parts of
the Serpent War Saga could have fighting styles similiar like ShoPi for
instance.   I also have to wonder how Arutha would have stacked up against
D'Artagnan.  I think Arutha would win!  Anyhow if you have not seen this
movie do so, its great on the fencing scenes.

Jason
"Too much knowlege never makes for simple decisions."
                           Ghanima- Children of Dune



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At 12:43 AM 4/19/02, Raymond Feist wrote:
> Christ!  Did I blurb Jack?  Shows you how the memory is the second 
> thing to go with old age.  (Before you ask,the first is your ability 
> to go left on a hot ground ball to third base).

If that's the case, I must have been ancient when I was twelve...
another reason I ended up as a catcher.

(a claim to fame:  Barry Bonds stole three bases on me in one game.
*shrugs*  Bobby was sitting in his big black Lincoln Continental out
on Cedar Street, too.  For ten minutes before every game, he'd roll
down the window and you could queue up for an autograph.  Once the ump
announced 'Play ball!', the window would shut and that was it until 
the following Saturday (if the Giants were in town, and he didn't
need to be at the 'Stick for a game, himself, of course).  Ah 
Little League...)

rip



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 01:29:16 -0700
Subject: Re: Thunderhell Nomads, et. al.
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Thursday, April 18, 2002, at 09:34 PM, JEEPMONSTER69@aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 4/18/2002 10:49:18 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
> raymond@bittersea.com writes:
>
>
> They don't like non-Sauur.
>
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
>
>
>
>       What about the Pantathians- was it merely a physical similarity 
> that made the Sauur trust them to a cartain degree?
>

It was more desperation at the demons eating their way through 
everything in front of them.

Best, R.E.F.

----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.

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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 01:31:05 -0700
Subject: Re: question about copyrights and suggestions on this list.
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Friday, April 19, 2002, at 12:48 AM, Torstein Litlabø wrote:

> Hi!
>
> Just found this interesting and thought I'd switch off lurking-mode to 
> put in a question.
>
> I don't have any plans to write anything, I'm just curious.
>
> As you can't copyright an idea, just your expression of it, how far can 
> you strech into someone elses domain before you get your fingers burnt?
>
> E.g. take the Hall of Worlds. As we know it, it's virtually endless, so 
> we don't know what it's like "in the other end". If someone decides to 
> write a story from "the other end" of the Hall of Worlds, not using 
> that name, describing it somewhat differently, no Honest John's, but 
> still the same thing. How would that case stand legally? And what if it 
> happens to be a "boy grows up to be a powerful magician" story, 
> containing teleportation gates(equivalent to rifts, but described 
> differently), and a kingdom/empire in peril.
>
> Where can you draw the line and say: "Sorry pal, you crossed over. I'll 
> see you in court!"?
>
> Like I said, I'm not a writer, I'll never be a writer (I'm just a 
> gambler who knows a few tricks :o), I'm just curious.
>

There is no clear cut "line" in many cases.  If you have "The Path of 
Doors," and describe it much like my Hall of Worlds, that's one thing.  
You call it "The Hall of Many Worlds," you're getting close.  You call 
it "The Hall of Worlds" and it better not look remotely like mine for 
you to get away with it.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.
>>
>
>



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Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 01:34:31 -0700
Subject: Re: Swashbuckling
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 01:34:31 -0700
Subject: Re: Swashbuckling
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Friday, April 19, 2002, at 12:28 AM, Jason Martin wrote:

> Ok, just finished watching the Musketeer and I thought it was a great 
> movie.
> I was curious though if anyone in the kingdom has a similiar fighting 
> style?
> I know the movie was a combo of eastern and western fighting... But 
> parts of
> the Serpent War Saga could have fighting styles similiar like ShoPi for
> instance.   I also have to wonder how Arutha would have stacked up 
> against
> D'Artagnan.  I think Arutha would win!  Anyhow if you have not seen this
> movie do so, its great on the fencing scenes.
>

No one in the real world has that fighting style, because what you saw 
was standard "Hollywood" fencing choreographed by someone who has been 
doing some of the best Kung Fu movies for the last decade.  Real marshal 
arts aren't remotely like what Jet Li does, for one example.  He and 
Bruce Lee (and Westly Snipes in Blade, and Jean-Claude Van Dame, and 
Stephen Segal, etc.) are all martial artists, but their floor work in 
the studios aren't remotely what you see on film.

I fenced in college, and theatrical fencing isn't remotely like 
competitive fencing.  Now, if you want to see what is (IMHO) the most 
"realistic" sword fighting on film, rent the videos of Ken Russel's The 
Three/Four Musketeers.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Subject: Re: Swashbuckling
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Jason Martin" <res0b95g@verizon.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Swashbuckling
Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 01:34:45 -0700
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  ----- Original Message -----
From: "Raymond Feist" <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Friday, April 19, 2002 1:34 AM
Subject: Re: Swashbuckling


>
> On Friday, April 19, 2002, at 12:28 AM, Jason Martin wrote:
>
> > Ok, just finished watching the Musketeer and I thought it was a great
> > movie.
> > I was curious though if anyone in the kingdom has a similiar fighting
> > style?
> > I know the movie was a combo of eastern and western fighting... But
> > parts of
> > the Serpent War Saga could have fighting styles similiar like ShoPi for
> > instance.   I also have to wonder how Arutha would have stacked up
> > against
> > D'Artagnan.  I think Arutha would win!  Anyhow if you have not seen this
> > movie do so, its great on the fencing scenes.
> >
>
> No one in the real world has that fighting style, because what you saw
> was standard "Hollywood" fencing choreographed by someone who has been
> doing some of the best Kung Fu movies for the last decade.  Real marshal
> arts aren't remotely like what Jet Li does, for one example.  He and
> Bruce Lee (and Westly Snipes in Blade, and Jean-Claude Van Dame, and
> Stephen Segal, etc.) are all martial artists, but their floor work in
> the studios aren't remotely what you see on film.
>
> I fenced in college, and theatrical fencing isn't remotely like
> competitive fencing.  Now, if you want to see what is (IMHO) the most
> "realistic" sword fighting on film, rent the videos of Ken Russel's The
> Three/Four Musketeers.
>
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
>
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
> stupidity.
>
Thanks for the input..  And here I thought I was one to stay up late on the
westcoast.  I know it was all choreographed but it still looked good.  I
also took a fencing class in college, and boy does your back leg get tired.
I learned a lot and wished I could have stuck with it more, but couldn't
work it into my schedules.  I'll have to check out the movie that you
recommended and check the yellow pages for some Fencing classes.  Need to
start getting in shape again..

Thanks,

Jason



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*** EOOH ***
From: "Donal K. Fellows" <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Thunderhell Nomads, et. al.
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There are spoilers below!

Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
>>> They don't like non-Sauur.
>> What about the Pantathians- was it merely a physical similarity that
>> made the Sauur trust them to a cartain degree?
> 
> I would say they'd hate the pantathians even more than the humans, due to
> their activities revealed to the Sauur by Hanam in Rage of a Demon King.

I think you'll find that they didn't trust them beforehand either, but
were not sure whether they really were Pantathians or some other race
that just happened to look similar (look what happened whenever they
did figure it out...)  And anyway, if they hadn't been between a rock
and a hard place, the Saaur would never have trusted anyone enough to
come to Midkemia in the first place.

Donal.
-- 
Donal K. Fellows, Department of Computer Science, University of Manchester, UK.
(work) fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk     Tel: +44-161-275-6137  (preferred email addr.)
(home) donal@ugglan.demon.co.uk  Tel: +44-1274-401017   Mobile: +44-7957-298955
http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~fellowsd/  (Don't quote my .sig; I've seen it before!)



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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: question about copyrights and suggestions on this list.
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*** EOOH ***
From: RBlackley@aol.com
Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 07:29:52 -0400
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: question about copyrights and suggestions on this list.
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Could you write it but not sell it?  What about for a school paper
(ie. take a familiar novel and write a new ending.)
Just curious,
Richard

>Nope.  You can't copyright an idea.  You can only copyright the specific 
>expression of an idea, i.e. the music, pictures, words, whatever.   So, 
>anyone can write a "boy grows up to be a powerful magician" story.  Just 
>don't put Tsurani and rifts and the Kingdom of the Isles and Pug and Tomas 
>in it if you don't want to end up in court.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
>stupidity.
>



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Subject: Sauur was Re: Thunderhell Nomads, et. al.
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*** EOOH ***
From: Russell.S.Teeter@kp.org
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Sauur was Re: Thunderhell Nomads, et. al.
Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 07:02:28 -0700
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Spoiler for some.
















Someone please correct me if I am wrong, but in the beginning of
Shadow of the Dark Queen, the Sauur left their home world because they
were being slaughtered by the demons.  It seemed that it was only when
the group sent to leave their planet had crossed through the rift that
the Pantathians reveled themselves and that is what the Sauur despised
and not the fact that they were going to Midkemia.  My impression was
the no one ever trusted the Pantathians.  Maybe I missed my mark, but
that was my impression.

Russell S. Teeter



There are spoilers below!

Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
>>> They don't like non-Sauur.
>> What about the Pantathians- was it merely a physical similarity that
>> made the Sauur trust them to a cartain degree?
> 
> I would say they'd hate the pantathians even more than the humans, due to
> their activities revealed to the Sauur by Hanam in Rage of a Demon King.

> I think you'll find that they didn't trust them beforehand either, but
> were not sure whether they really were Pantathians or some other race
> that just happened to look similar (look what happened whenever they
> did figure it out...)  And anyway, if they hadn't been between a rock
> and a hard place, the Saaur would never have trusted anyone enough to
> come to Midkemia in the first place.

> Donal.
> -- 
> Donal K. Fellows, Department of Computer Science, University of Manchester, UK.
> (work) fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk     Tel: +44-161-275-6137  (preferred email addr.)
> (home) donal@ugglan.demon.co.uk  Tel: +44-1274-401017   Mobile: +44-7957-298955
> http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~fellowsd/  (Don't quote my .sig; I've seen it before!)

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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 07:21:23 -0700
Subject: Re: question about copyrights and suggestions on this list.
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
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On Friday, April 19, 2002, at 04:29 AM, RBlackley@aol.com wrote:

> Could you write it but not sell it?  What about for a school paper (ie. 
> take a familiar novel and write a new ending.)
> Just curious,
>

You can write anything, as long as you don't "publish" it, and if you 
put it in the school paper, that's publishing.

If you print copies and give it away to friends to read for free, that's 
publishing.

If you stick it up on a web site for folks to read, that's . . .you get 
the idea.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Subject: Re: Sauur was Re: Thunderhell Nomads, et. al.
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Donal K. Fellows" <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Sauur was Re: Thunderhell Nomads, et. al.
Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 15:25:58 +0100
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Russell.S.Teeter@kp.org
> Spoiler for some.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Someone please correct me if I am wrong, but in the beginning of
> Shadow of the Dark Queen, the Sauur left their home world because they
> were being slaughtered by the demons.  It seemed that it was only when
> the group sent to leave their planet had crossed through the rift that
> the Pantathians reveled themselves and that is what the Sauur despised
> and not the fact that they were going to Midkemia.  My impression was
> the no one ever trusted the Pantathians.  Maybe I missed my mark, but
> that was my impression.

My point is that the Saaur wouldn't have gone *anywhere* without the
demons pushing them out of where they were, *and* the Panathians
providing an escape route.  And they didn't trust them even then,
though giving their word to serve was a condition of access to the way
out.  Which lasted for nearly three books...  <g>

Donal.
-- 
Donal K. Fellows, Department of Computer Science, University of Manchester, UK.
(work) fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk     Tel: +44-161-275-6137  (preferred email addr.)
(home) donal@ugglan.demon.co.uk  Tel: +44-1274-401017   Mobile: +44-7957-298955
http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~fellowsd/  (Don't quote my .sig; I've seen it before!)



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> > Anyway, are the two continents seperated by a north pole? Or, does 
> > Triagia not really have a cold north, ie, are the Northlands temperate 
> > all the way to the norther shores?
> >
> 
> Midkemia has a North Pole.  Got no Santa Claus, though.

I seem to remember mention (in passing) of a Father Winter, though,
that sounded suspiciously similar to Santa Claus. Had to be either in
the APE of Magician or in Silverthorn (since that's where I'm at in
the middle of my re-reading).

Does that ring any bells?



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*** EOOH ***
From: RBlackley@aol.com
Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 17:43:31 EDT
Subject: Re: question about copyrights and suggestions on this list.
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

So if I wrote a paper that was an alternate ending to, say, rage and handed 
it in then that would be illigal.  I know you just said this but i just want 
to make sure.  Because I very nearly did last year.
Richard

In a message dated 4/19/2002 10:37:58 AM Eastern Daylight Time, 
raymond@bittersea.com writes:


> On Friday, April 19, 2002, at 04:29 AM, RBlackley@aol.com wrote:
> 
> > Could you write it but not sell it?  What about for a school paper (ie. 
> > take a familiar novel and write a new ending.)
> > Just curious,
> >
> 
> You can write anything, as long as you don't "publish" it, and if you 
> put it in the school paper, that's publishing.
> 
> If you print copies and give it away to friends to read for free, that's 
> publishing.
> 
> If you stick it up on a web site for folks to read, that's . . .you get 
> the idea.
> 
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
> 
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
> stupidity.
> 


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"Wit is cultured insolence"
                         Aristotle
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From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
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Torstein Litlabø wrote:
> 
> As you can't copyright an idea, just your expression of it, how far can you
> strech into someone elses domain before you get your fingers burnt?

Here are a few paragraphs on just this sort of topic from Tracy
Hickman's newsletter that he sents out to subscribers from time to time:

"Many people wonder if looking at or experiencing other people’s
movies or television or books or music taints your idea with
plagiarism. It certainly can if you are looking to steal their
concepts wholesale. If you were to see Lord of the Rings and say,
“What if the ring were a glove? We could call it ‘Lord of the
Glove!’ – then you haven’t really found an idea. All
you’ve done is badly warmed over Tolkien and a very large lawsuit.
BUT ... if you started with “What if the ring were a glove? Why?
Well, a gauntlet is like an armored glove. A great warrior might have
a magical gauntlet that gave him special powers.  (Suddenly we’re
getting closer to Witchblade here.) How? Perhaps it is a gauntlet that
is suffused with the spirits of each person whose life it took and
that’s where it gets its power?  What results? It would be a
haunted gauntlet.

Then we ask the first question again ... What if instead of being a
cursed item, the gauntlet wanted to free the souls that were trapped
in it by doing good deeds – by saving lives rather than destroying
them? Why? It has a soul of its own that longs to be free. How? It
must seek out, like Arthur’s sword, the one pure person who can
free it from its damnation.

We could call it “Running the Gauntlet” giving a double meaning
to the second word. This implies a difficult, deadly series of tasks
that must be performed in order to free the gauntlet of its curse.

Now look at what we have ... a story that is far removed from Tolkien
but which is nevertheless a strong idea for a book."



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       Although there is one way to write about Midkemia- write a parody.  
It's illegal to draw a picture of Mickey Mouse, but it is legal to draw a 
picture of Mickey Mouse with a pencil shoved where it shouldn't.  I know of a 
few good parodys of Midkemia, pretty funny actually.  I might post them if I 
find them.


>On Friday, April 19, 2002, at 04:29 AM, RBlackley@aol.com wrote:
>
>> Could you write it but not sell it?  What about for a school paper (ie. 
>> take a familiar novel and write a new ending.)
>> Just curious,
>>
>
>You can write anything, as long as you don't "publish" it, and if you 
>put it in the school paper, that's publishing.
>
>If you print copies and give it away to friends to read for free, that's 
>publishing.
>
>If you stick it up on a web site for folks to read, that's . . .you get 
>the idea.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
>stupidity.

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Now, who was it that wrote a short story (obviously based on SC) regarding a
toy maker who lived in a village.
Every midwinter feast he gave out toys to the local children.
After he died they carried on the tradition
Might have been called "The Toy Maker" or "The Giver of Gifts" or something
like that.

It was deliberately written to follow the Father Christmas story, and to
bring it into whatever-land-it-was.

I thought it might have been Ray, but it can't be. Can it??

Please help,
BJS

-----Original Message-----
>From: Raymond Feist [mailto:raymond@bittersea.com]
>Sent: 19 April 2002 00:44
>To: FEISTFANS-L
>Subject: Re: Thunderhell Nomads, et. al.
>
>
>
>On Thursday, April 18, 2002, at 03:29 PM, James Silva wrote:
>
>> Ray, you are just a font of knowledge. One would think you were one of
>> the creators of this world or something.
>>
>> Anyway, are the two continents seperated by a north pole? Or, does
>> Triagia not really have a cold north, ie, are the Northlands temperate
>> all the way to the norther shores?
>>
>
>Midkemia has a North Pole.  Got no Santa Claus, though.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
>stupidity.

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Joel Rosenberg <joelr@ellegon.com> writes
>Obvious cure:  in the next contract, demand royalties for review copies,
>which would have the obvious cure-being-worse-than-the-disease problem
>(assuming that the publisher would go for it; Ray's a big gun, granted, but
>that would be a difficult precedent for a publisher to accept), of having the
>publisher be less inclined to send out review copies.   (Me, I'd like a
>review copy myself...:))
>
Now for a fee........ :)
Sorry I am not parting with it, but I could ask my contact.......... <g>

Personally I am opposed to Amazon, since they bought Bibliofind, a very 
useful used book resource, similar to the B&N used book resource, then 
went on to charge their clients heavier fees, and swallow the whole lot 
into Amazon.
Before it was bought up I probably bought 200+ used books through 
Bibliofind since, I have bought possibly 2
-- 
John

john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.

Raymond E Feist Ring
http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm



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Subject: Re: Other Alternatives
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>----- Original Message -----
>From: Raymond Feist
>To: FEISTFANS-L
>Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2002 10:42 AM
>Subject: Re: Other Alternatives
>
>*snip*
>
>Hardly. No one loses readership because he/she does "too well." If you
>follow that logic, the answer would be, "Write less well; you'll sell more,"
>which is nonsense. This is part of the "if it's popular, it can't be good,"
>nonsense. Lee's problems are mostly marketing. There are very good writers
>who only appeal to a small segment of the reading public, such as Jim Morrow
>or Tim Powers. They don't write "too well," rather they write odd and quirky
>stuff that doesn't appeal to the audience a Tom Clancy draws.

I came across one of Tim Powers' books (On Stranger Tides) in a second-hand
shop a while ago (see, they are good for something *g*), bought it on the
strength of the blurb, and started reading on the bus home... I didn't stop
to sleep until I'd finished the damn thing. Highly recommended if you like
slightly twisted historical stuff, with pirates, ghosts, voodoo, and so
on...

I never could understand why he wasn't much more popular -- I've only ever
seen one other book of his in a first hand bookshop (The Anubis Gates). I
can't afford it, unfortunately -- $35 for a paperback? Sod off -- but I
intend to buy it and read it as soon as I can.

Cheers,
James



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       Hi all

       I've been on the list for about a month, trying to get the gist
       of how things are here...I want to thank Raymond for the
       extraordinary world that he has given to us in his books, I've
       really enjoyed it so far (just need to get my hands on two more
       books and I can say I've read everything that he has published
       so far :) 

       Anyway...being a geek as I am, I was reading slashdot.org a few
       days ago, and this link came up. I haven't seen it discussed
       here, so I thought I'd delurk for a bit and ask...what does
       everybody (specially Raymond, of course) think about the
       premises that Eric Flint puts forth in this article:

       http://www.baen.com/library/palaver6.htm

       Vox
-- 

Think of the Linux community as a niche economy isolated by its beliefs.  Kind
of like the Amish, except that our religion requires us to use _higher_
technology than everyone else.	     -- Donald B. Marti Jr.



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If you were to jump on a ship on the northern coast of Triagia, and head due 
north, would you hit Wynet before or after passing by the northpole?

Jimmy


>From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
>Subject: Re: Thunderhell Nomads, et. al.
>Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 16:44:15 -0700
>
>
>On Thursday, April 18, 2002, at 03:29 PM, James Silva wrote:
>
>>Ray, you are just a font of knowledge. One would think you were one of
>>the creators of this world or something.
>>
>>Anyway, are the two continents seperated by a north pole? Or, does
>>Triagia not really have a cold north, ie, are the Northlands temperate
>>all the way to the norther shores?
>>
>
>Midkemia has a North Pole.  Got no Santa Claus, though.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
>stupidity.
>


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2002 09:24:25 -0700
Subject: Re: question about copyrights and suggestions on this list.
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On Friday, April 19, 2002, at 04:45 PM, Gkhd11a@aol.com wrote:

>      Although there is one way to write about Midkemia- write a 
> parody.  It's illegal to draw a picture of Mickey Mouse, but it is 
> legal to draw a picture of Mickey Mouse with a pencil shoved where it 
> shouldn't.  I know of a few good parodys of Midkemia, pretty funny 
> actually.  I might post them if I find them.
>

The problem with parody is few can pull it off.  "Bored of the Rings" is 
a great example (though it is technically a lampoon, but "parody" covers 
satire, lampoon, and other forms of comic "homage.")

Do a Midkemia "parody" and if I read it and I'm not laughing, you're 
probably going to hear from lawyers.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.

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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2002 09:22:26 -0700
Subject: Re: question about copyrights and suggestions on this list.
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On Friday, April 19, 2002, at 02:43 PM, RBlackley@aol.com wrote:

> So if I wrote a paper that was an alternate ending to, say, rage and 
> handed it in then that would be illigal.  I know you just said this but 
> i just want to make sure.  Because I very nearly did last year.


You picked a somewhat grey area example.  If you did that, that wouldn't 
be publishing, if you and the TA or prof who read it were the only 
people to see it.  It's a "writing exercise."  But the problem is, if 
you start showing it around to friends, make extra copies, etc. you're 
suddenly over the line.

Best not to even try it, IMHO.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.

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Subject: Re: A question about electronic distribution
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On Saturday, April 20, 2002, at 01:59 AM, Vox wrote:

>
>        Hi all
>
>        I've been on the list for about a month, trying to get the gist
>        of how things are here...I want to thank Raymond for the
>        extraordinary world that he has given to us in his books, I've
>        really enjoyed it so far (just need to get my hands on two more
>        books and I can say I've read everything that he has published
>        so far :)
>
>        Anyway...being a geek as I am, I was reading slashdot.org a few
>        days ago, and this link came up. I haven't seen it discussed
>        here, so I thought I'd delurk for a bit and ask...what does
>        everybody (specially Raymond, of course) think about the
>        premises that Eric Flint puts forth in this article:
>
>        http://www.baen.com/library/palaver6.htm
>
>        Vox
> --
>

You can't prove a negative hypothesis.  I can't "demonstrate" or "prove" 
how much money e-piracy costs anyone, because they're not buying the 
books,then returning them saying loudly, "Oh, I'm not going to pay for 
this now because I'm getting it illegally free off the web!"

So, anyone who says, "It's costing authors millions," or who says, 
"They're costing authors nothing," is an idiot.

We don't know.

But the point is, it doesn't matter, does it?  Because _I_ am the only 
one who gets a vote on how my work is distributed.  I choose my 
publishers based upon my deals with them, and they make decisions on how 
to publish.

Now, Jim Baen's program has not been a big deal with most people, and 
other publishers are kind of ignoring it.  Jim's a good genre publisher 
who has put some really good authors out in front of the public,and if 
his program sells books, great, but it's a bit of an aberration.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2002 09:30:37 -0700
Subject: Re: Thunderhell Nomads, et. al.
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Saturday, April 20, 2002, at 06:40 AM, James Silva wrote:

> If you were to jump on a ship on the northern coast of Triagia, and 
> head due north, would you hit Wynet before or after passing by the 
> northpole?
>
> Jimmy
>
Think about it.

If it was past the north pole it wouldn't be north, it would be on the 
other side of the planet.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2002 10:36:48 -0600
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: question about copyrights and suggestions on this list.
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Raymond Feist wrote:
> 
> Do a Midkemia "parody" and if I read it and I'm not laughing, you're
> probably going to hear from lawyers.

See, that's what I don't get about parodies.
They seem to be ok as long as you don't tick off the person who's work
you are making a parody of. Do something they don't like (such as the
Starballz situation), and they're on your ass.

It really should be one way or the other :P

Craig J. Ries



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2002 09:48:44 -0700
Subject: Re: question about copyrights and suggestions on this list.
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Saturday, April 20, 2002, at 09:36 AM, Craig J. Ries wrote:

> Raymond Feist wrote:
>>
>> Do a Midkemia "parody" and if I read it and I'm not laughing, you're
>> probably going to hear from lawyers.
>
> See, that's what I don't get about parodies.
> They seem to be ok as long as you don't tick off the person who's work
> you are making a parody of. Do something they don't like (such as the
> Starballz situation), and they're on your ass.
>
> It really should be one way or the other :P
>
> Craig J. Ries
>
>
>
>

Not true.  Ask Gerry Falwell and Larry Flynt.

The guy who's being ribbed doesn't have to like the work.  The courts 
have to think it is parody, not something else.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
From: Joel Rosenberg <joelr@ellegon.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu, Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
Subject: Re: A question about electronic distribution
Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2002 11:57:22 -0500
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On Saturday 20 April 2002 11:29 am, Raymond Feist wrote:
> On Saturday, April 20, 2002, at 01:59 AM, Vox wrote:
> >        Hi all
> >
> >        I've been on the list for about a month, trying to get the gist
> >        of how things are here...I want to thank Raymond for the
> >        extraordinary world that he has given to us in his books, I've
> >        really enjoyed it so far (just need to get my hands on two more
> >        books and I can say I've read everything that he has published
> >        so far :)
> >
> >        Anyway...being a geek as I am, I was reading slashdot.org a few
> >        days ago, and this link came up. I haven't seen it discussed
> >        here, so I thought I'd delurk for a bit and ask...what does
> >        everybody (specially Raymond, of course) think about the
> >        premises that Eric Flint puts forth in this article:
> >
> >        http://www.baen.com/library/palaver6.htm
> >
> >        Vox
> > --
>
> You can't prove a negative hypothesis.  I can't "demonstrate" or "prove"
> how much money e-piracy costs anyone, because they're not buying the
> books,then returning them saying loudly, "Oh, I'm not going to pay for
> this now because I'm getting it illegally free off the web!"

Yup.   And even if some of them did, we wouldn't know if it was statistically 
significant.  

>
> So, anyone who says, "It's costing authors millions," or who says,
> "They're costing authors nothing," is an idiot.
>
> We don't know.
>
> But the point is, it doesn't matter, does it?  Because _I_ am the only
> one who gets a vote on how my work is distributed.  I choose my
> publishers based upon my deals with them, and they make decisions on how
> to publish.

Sure.  But I think that the BFL provides some evidence -- approaching proof 
-- that, at least for *some* writers, in *some* situations, making free 
copies available increases sales, in some cases dramatically, of both the 
free books, and other books by the same writers.  (The examples that Eric 
cites are not, I believe, the most dramatic successes -- but since they're 
his books, they're the ones that he can freely share numbers on.)   What are 
the conditions that make it a good choice for the writer?  I dunno, but I'd 
like to -- given that Baen has picked up my entire out-of-print Guardians 
backlist and my two mil-SF novels.

>
> Now, Jim Baen's program has not been a big deal with most people, and
> other publishers are kind of ignoring it.  Jim's a good genre publisher
> who has put some really good authors out in front of the public,and if
> his program sells books, great, but it's a bit of an aberration.
>

Well, it is a statistical aberration, of course -- but we don't know, at this 
point, if it's because there's something special/weird/unusual about the 
authors/niches/books that have gone into the BFL, or simply because nobody 
else is doing it. 

My guess -- and it's just a guess -- is that it wouldn't be a useful strategy 
for folks whose books regularly appear on the NYTimes list, but may well be 
useful for some folks who don't... probably those who are relatively 
prolific, and who write serieses.  

At this point, I dunno, and I haven't decided, yet, what to do about it, 
other than think about it for awhile.  As you point out, it's the writer's 
choice...



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Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2002 11:25:45 -0600
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: question about copyrights and suggestions on this list.
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Raymond Feist wrote:
> 
> On Saturday, April 20, 2002, at 09:36 AM, Craig J. Ries wrote:
> 
> > Raymond Feist wrote:
> >>
> >> Do a Midkemia "parody" and if I read it and I'm not laughing, you're
> >> probably going to hear from lawyers.
> >
> The guy who's being ribbed doesn't have to like the work.  The courts
> have to think it is parody, not something else.

But judging from your original statement, which I've left in above, it
doesn't have to matter to you if it is a parody or not.
As you said, even if it's a parody, if you don't like it you can
threaten legal action.

Lucas, afaik, lost his case against the producers of Starballz (although
there's some counter-legal action going on too), so how would you win by
going after something you don't like that's a parody compared to
something that you do like?

Craig J. Ries



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*** EOOH ***
From: Joel Rosenberg <joelr@ellegon.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: question about copyrights and suggestions on this list.
Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2002 12:41:18 -0500
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

On Saturday 20 April 2002 12:25 pm, you wrote:
> Raymond Feist wrote:
> > On Saturday, April 20, 2002, at 09:36 AM, Craig J. Ries wrote:
> > > Raymond Feist wrote:
> > >> Do a Midkemia "parody" and if I read it and I'm not laughing, you're
> > >> probably going to hear from lawyers.
> >
> > The guy who's being ribbed doesn't have to like the work.  The courts
> > have to think it is parody, not something else.
>
> But judging from your original statement, which I've left in above, it
> doesn't have to matter to you if it is a parody or not.
> As you said, even if it's a parody, if you don't like it you can
> threaten legal action.

Sure.  But I can, if I like, threaten legal action against you for the 
alienation of affections of my dog, even if I don't have a dog.  

(I won't; I promise.  Even if you do get my dog to like you.  :))

>
> Lucas, afaik, lost his case against the producers of Starballz (although
> there's some counter-legal action going on too), so how would you win by
> going after something you don't like that's a parody compared to
> something that you do like?
>
> Craig J. Ries

Well, there's at least three objectives in such an action:  removing 
something somebody finds offensive from public view; protecting one's own 
copyrights/trademarks/property/income stream; pour encourager les autres.  

Note, by way of example, how vigorously Microsoft is going after Lindows.  I 
don't think it has much of anything to do with the notion that people will 
confuse Lindows with Windows, but rather that Lindows -- if it does what it 
says it will (which it may, eventually) -- free users of Microsoft programs 
from the MS operating system.  




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Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2002 11:59:25 -0600
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: question about copyrights and suggestions on this list.
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Joel Rosenberg wrote:
> 
> Note, by way of example, how vigorously Microsoft is going after Lindows.  I
> don't think it has much of anything to do with the notion that people will
> confuse Lindows with Windows, but rather that Lindows -- if it does what it
> says it will (which it may, eventually) -- free users of Microsoft programs
> from the MS operating system.

Well, I don't think I've ever seen a parody that set out to be a
replacement to the original, so I can't see Lindows as a parody, but a
genuine competing product.
 
I honestly hope that Lindows displaces and eventually replaces Windows.
:)

Craig J. Ries



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Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2002 11:02:02 -0700
Subject: Re: question about copyrights and suggestions on this list.
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Saturday, April 20, 2002, at 10:25 AM, Craig J. Ries wrote:

> Raymond Feist wrote:
>>
>> On Saturday, April 20, 2002, at 09:36 AM, Craig J. Ries wrote:
>>
>>> Raymond Feist wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Do a Midkemia "parody" and if I read it and I'm not laughing, you're
>>>> probably going to hear from lawyers.
>>>
>> The guy who's being ribbed doesn't have to like the work.  The courts
>> have to think it is parody, not something else.
>
> But judging from your original statement, which I've left in above, it
> doesn't have to matter to you if it is a parody or not.
> As you said, even if it's a parody, if you don't like it you can
> threaten legal action.
>
> Lucas, afaik, lost his case against the producers of Starballz (although
> there's some counter-legal action going on too), so how would you win by
> going after something you don't like that's a parody compared to
> something that you do like?
>

OK, you're reading too much into the "if I'm not laughing," i.e. I don't 
have to think it's funny.  It can be bad parody.  It just has to be 
parody.  What I meant was that you can't do a knock off that's 100% 
serious and then try to defend it by calling it "parody."

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2002 11:03:15 -0700
Subject: Re: A question about electronic distribution
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
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Joel, did you mean to send this to the list?


On Saturday, April 20, 2002, at 09:57 AM, Joel Rosenberg wrote:

> On Saturday 20 April 2002 11:29 am, Raymond Feist wrote:
>> On Saturday, April 20, 2002, at 01:59 AM, Vox wrote:
>>>        Hi all
>>>
>>>        I've been on the list for about a month, trying to get the gist
>>>        of how things are here...I want to thank Raymond for the
>>>        extraordinary world that he has given to us in his books, I've
>>>        really enjoyed it so far (just need to get my hands on two more
>>>        books and I can say I've read everything that he has published
>>>        so far :)
>>>
>>>        Anyway...being a geek as I am, I was reading slashdot.org a few
>>>        days ago, and this link came up. I haven't seen it discussed
>>>        here, so I thought I'd delurk for a bit and ask...what does
>>>        everybody (specially Raymond, of course) think about the
>>>        premises that Eric Flint puts forth in this article:
>>>
>>>        http://www.baen.com/library/palaver6.htm
>>>
>>>        Vox
>>> --
>>
>> You can't prove a negative hypothesis.  I can't "demonstrate" or 
>> "prove"
>> how much money e-piracy costs anyone, because they're not buying the
>> books,then returning them saying loudly, "Oh, I'm not going to pay for
>> this now because I'm getting it illegally free off the web!"
>
> Yup.   And even if some of them did, we wouldn't know if it was 
> statistically
> significant.
>
>>
>> So, anyone who says, "It's costing authors millions," or who says,
>> "They're costing authors nothing," is an idiot.
>>
>> We don't know.
>>
>> But the point is, it doesn't matter, does it?  Because _I_ am the only
>> one who gets a vote on how my work is distributed.  I choose my
>> publishers based upon my deals with them, and they make decisions on 
>> how
>> to publish.
>
> Sure.  But I think that the BFL provides some evidence -- approaching 
> proof
> -- that, at least for *some* writers, in *some* situations, making free
> copies available increases sales, in some cases dramatically, of both 
> the
> free books, and other books by the same writers.  (The examples that 
> Eric
> cites are not, I believe, the most dramatic successes -- but since 
> they're
> his books, they're the ones that he can freely share numbers on.)   
> What are
> the conditions that make it a good choice for the writer?  I dunno, but 
> I'd
> like to -- given that Baen has picked up my entire out-of-print 
> Guardians
> backlist and my two mil-SF novels.
>
>>
>> Now, Jim Baen's program has not been a big deal with most people, and
>> other publishers are kind of ignoring it.  Jim's a good genre publisher
>> who has put some really good authors out in front of the public,and if
>> his program sells books, great, but it's a bit of an aberration.
>>
>
> Well, it is a statistical aberration, of course -- but we don't know, 
> at this
> point, if it's because there's something special/weird/unusual about the
> authors/niches/books that have gone into the BFL, or simply because 
> nobody
> else is doing it.
>
> My guess -- and it's just a guess -- is that it wouldn't be a useful 
> strategy
> for folks whose books regularly appear on the NYTimes list, but may 
> well be
> useful for some folks who don't... probably those who are relatively
> prolific, and who write serieses.
>
> At this point, I dunno, and I haven't decided, yet, what to do about it,
> other than think about it for awhile.  As you point out, it's the 
> writer's
> choice...
>
>
>
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
From: Joel Rosenberg <joelr@ellegon.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L), "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
Subject: Re: question about copyrights and suggestions on this list.
Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2002 13:12:02 -0500
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On Saturday 20 April 2002 12:59 pm, Craig J. Ries wrote:
> Joel Rosenberg wrote:
> > Note, by way of example, how vigorously Microsoft is going after Lindows.
> >  I don't think it has much of anything to do with the notion that people
> > will confuse Lindows with Windows, but rather that Lindows -- if it does
> > what it says it will (which it may, eventually) -- free users of
> > Microsoft programs from the MS operating system.
>
> Well, I don't think I've ever seen a parody that set out to be a
> replacement to the original, so I can't see Lindows as a parody, but a
> genuine competing product.
>
> I honestly hope that Lindows displaces and eventually replaces Windows.
>
> :)
>
> Craig J. Ries

Well, I'll be satisfied if desktop Linux gets enough of a market share to 
keep the various distro manufacturers afloat -- although how they'll be 
afloat is another matter.



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Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2002 12:22:01 -0600
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: question about copyrights and suggestions on this list.
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Raymond Feist wrote:
> 
> OK, you're reading too much into the "if I'm not laughing," i.e. I don't
> have to think it's funny.  It can be bad parody.  It just has to be
> parody.  What I meant was that you can't do a knock off that's 100%
> serious and then try to defend it by calling it "parody."

Ahh, gotcha.

Craig J. Ries



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From: Joel Rosenberg <joelr@ellegon.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: A question about electronic distribution
Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2002 13:22:21 -0500
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From: Joel Rosenberg <joelr@ellegon.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: A question about electronic distribution
Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2002 13:22:21 -0500
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On Saturday 20 April 2002 01:03 pm, you wrote:
> Joel, did you mean to send this to the list?

Well, no, but I apparently did -- hit the wrong button.  
>
> On Saturday, April 20, 2002, at 09:57 AM, Joel Rosenberg wrote:
> > On Saturday 20 April 2002 11:29 am, Raymond Feist wrote:
> >> On Saturday, April 20, 2002, at 01:59 AM, Vox wrote:
> >>>        Hi all
> >>>
> >>>        I've been on the list for about a month, trying to get the gist
> >>>        of how things are here...I want to thank Raymond for the
> >>>        extraordinary world that he has given to us in his books, I've
> >>>        really enjoyed it so far (just need to get my hands on two more
> >>>        books and I can say I've read everything that he has published
> >>>        so far :)
> >>>
> >>>        Anyway...being a geek as I am, I was reading slashdot.org a few
> >>>        days ago, and this link came up. I haven't seen it discussed
> >>>        here, so I thought I'd delurk for a bit and ask...what does
> >>>        everybody (specially Raymond, of course) think about the
> >>>        premises that Eric Flint puts forth in this article:
> >>>
> >>>        http://www.baen.com/library/palaver6.htm
> >>>
> >>>        Vox
> >>> --
> >>
> >> You can't prove a negative hypothesis.  I can't "demonstrate" or
> >> "prove"
> >> how much money e-piracy costs anyone, because they're not buying the
> >> books,then returning them saying loudly, "Oh, I'm not going to pay for
> >> this now because I'm getting it illegally free off the web!"
> >
> > Yup.   And even if some of them did, we wouldn't know if it was
> > statistically
> > significant.
> >
> >> So, anyone who says, "It's costing authors millions," or who says,
> >> "They're costing authors nothing," is an idiot.
> >>
> >> We don't know.
> >>
> >> But the point is, it doesn't matter, does it?  Because _I_ am the only
> >> one who gets a vote on how my work is distributed.  I choose my
> >> publishers based upon my deals with them, and they make decisions on
> >> how
> >> to publish.
> >
> > Sure.  But I think that the BFL provides some evidence -- approaching
> > proof
> > -- that, at least for *some* writers, in *some* situations, making free
> > copies available increases sales, in some cases dramatically, of both
> > the
> > free books, and other books by the same writers.  (The examples that
> > Eric
> > cites are not, I believe, the most dramatic successes -- but since
> > they're
> > his books, they're the ones that he can freely share numbers on.)
> > What are
> > the conditions that make it a good choice for the writer?  I dunno, but
> > I'd
> > like to -- given that Baen has picked up my entire out-of-print
> > Guardians
> > backlist and my two mil-SF novels.
> >
> >> Now, Jim Baen's program has not been a big deal with most people, and
> >> other publishers are kind of ignoring it.  Jim's a good genre publisher
> >> who has put some really good authors out in front of the public,and if
> >> his program sells books, great, but it's a bit of an aberration.
> >
> > Well, it is a statistical aberration, of course -- but we don't know,
> > at this
> > point, if it's because there's something special/weird/unusual about the
> > authors/niches/books that have gone into the BFL, or simply because
> > nobody
> > else is doing it.
> >
> > My guess -- and it's just a guess -- is that it wouldn't be a useful
> > strategy
> > for folks whose books regularly appear on the NYTimes list, but may
> > well be
> > useful for some folks who don't... probably those who are relatively
> > prolific, and who write serieses.
> >
> > At this point, I dunno, and I haven't decided, yet, what to do about it,
> > other than think about it for awhile.  As you point out, it's the
> > writer's
> > choice...
>
> ----
>
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
> stupidity.



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>From: Vox <vox@the-vox.com>

>        Anyway...being a geek as I am, I was reading slashdot.org a few
>        days ago, and this link came up. I haven't seen it discussed
>        here, so I thought I'd delurk for a bit and ask...what does
>        everybody (specially Raymond, of course) think about the
>        premises that Eric Flint puts forth in this article:

Based on absolutely no evidence, I believe that this type of distribution 
(similar, I believe to music "sharing") can only help authors and artists 
who are not very well known.  Very well know and popular authors/artists 
could be either helped or hurt.  On a practical side, it's not very 
convinent to take a computer, even a laptop, into the bathroom with you.

Andy Holcombe
Andy_wan_Kenobi@hotmail.com

"To err is human, but to really foul things up requires a computer."
     -Farmers' Almanac 1978

"I don't give a damn for a man who can only spell a word one way."
     -Mark Twain

"History will be kind to me, for I intend to write it."
     -Winston Churchill

_________________________________________________________________
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From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
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So, I'm a fool.

Jimmy :)


>From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
>Subject: Re: Thunderhell Nomads, et. al.
>Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2002 09:30:37 -0700
>
>
>On Saturday, April 20, 2002, at 06:40 AM, James Silva wrote:
>
>>If you were to jump on a ship on the northern coast of Triagia, and
>>head due north, would you hit Wynet before or after passing by the
>>northpole?
>>
>>Jimmy
>>
>Think about it.
>
>If it was past the north pole it wouldn't be north, it would be on the
>other side of the planet.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
>stupidity.
>


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Simply put, reading a book on a computer is a real nuisance, I have only 
done it a) to proofread a book for someone, b) because the book is out 
of print or way too expensive (tends to be old material whose copyright 
has run out, like a translation of Julius Caesar's de Bello Gallicum) or 
c) because I wanted to check a few chapters to decide whether I'd like 
it and then went out and bought a copy.

But all in all, it usually ain't worth reading a book on a computer and 
printing them out can be a load of trouble (just a little error and you 
can end up with several hundred pages useless toilet paper).


Marc aka Caran...

Andy Holcombe wrote:

>> From: Vox <vox@the-vox.com>
>
>
>>        Anyway...being a geek as I am, I was reading slashdot.org a few
>>        days ago, and this link came up. I haven't seen it discussed
>>        here, so I thought I'd delurk for a bit and ask...what does
>>        everybody (specially Raymond, of course) think about the
>>        premises that Eric Flint puts forth in this article:
>
>
> Based on absolutely no evidence, I believe that this type of 
> distribution (similar, I believe to music "sharing") can only help 
> authors and artists who are not very well known.  Very well know and 
> popular authors/artists could be either helped or hurt.  On a 
> practical side, it's not very convinent to take a computer, even a 
> laptop, into the bathroom with you.
>
> Andy Holcombe
> Andy_wan_Kenobi@hotmail.com
>
> "To err is human, but to really foul things up requires a computer."
>     -Farmers' Almanac 1978
>
> "I don't give a damn for a man who can only spell a word one way."
>     -Mark Twain
>
> "History will be kind to me, for I intend to write it."
>     -Winston Churchill





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From: Vox <vox@the-vox.com>
Date: 20 Apr 2002 16:40:36 -0500
User-Agent: Gnus/5.09 (Gnus v5.9.0) Emacs/21.2
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com> writes:

> On Saturday, April 20, 2002, at 01:59 AM, Vox wrote:
> 
> >
> >        Hi all
> >
> >        I've been on the list for about a month, trying to get the gist
> >        of how things are here...I want to thank Raymond for the
> >        extraordinary world that he has given to us in his books, I've
> >        really enjoyed it so far (just need to get my hands on two more
> >        books and I can say I've read everything that he has published
> >        so far :)
> >
> >        Anyway...being a geek as I am, I was reading slashdot.org a few
> >        days ago, and this link came up. I haven't seen it discussed
> >        here, so I thought I'd delurk for a bit and ask...what does
> >        everybody (specially Raymond, of course) think about the
> >        premises that Eric Flint puts forth in this article:
> >
> >        http://www.baen.com/library/palaver6.htm
> >
> >        Vox
> > --
> >
> 
> You can't prove a negative hypothesis.  I can't "demonstrate" or
> "prove" how much money e-piracy costs anyone, because they're not
> buying the books,then returning them saying loudly, "Oh, I'm not going
> to pay for this now because I'm getting it illegally free off the web!"
> 
> So, anyone who says, "It's costing authors millions," or who says,
> "They're costing authors nothing," is an idiot.
> 
> We don't know.

  Ok, so far I have to agree. As Joel said in his
  non-intended-for-the-list mail, it's something that may help some
  authors and may harm others. When the free library came up, slashdot
  linked to it and I read Flint for the first time then...and went and
  ordered all his books after reading what he had in the library. Same
  with David Drake...and actually, the same thing happened to me with
  you :)
  
  Here in Mx, fantasy isn't very popular (mostly because there's not
  much getting translated, and mexican fiction writers don't do
  fantasy much and it's a pain to get imported books in their original
  language) and the first time I read one of your books (Shadow of a
  Dark Queen) it was sent in electronic form to me by a friend...I
  searched for other books from you, got Raise of a Merchant Prince in
  paperback...then got everything I could find (including Shadow :)

  On the other hand, I'm pretty sure that for authors like you and
  others well known in areas where they are well known, it can be
  unhelpful, even damaging for your sales...but as you said, it can't
  be proved.

> But the point is, it doesn't matter, does it?  Because _I_ am the only
> one who gets a vote on how my work is distributed.  I choose my
> publishers based upon my deals with them, and they make decisions on
> how to publish.

  Publishers make the decisions on how to publish? even for authors
  that sell well? What I mean is...don't you get at least some choice
  in how/when/where your books get published?

> Now, Jim Baen's program has not been a big deal with most people, and
> other publishers are kind of ignoring it.  Jim's a good genre
> publisher who has put some really good authors out in front of the
> public,and if his program sells books, great, but it's a bit of an
> aberration.

  Aberration in what sense? Statistical or practical?  Because he
  isn't the only author I've seen making this claim (an O'Reilly
  author said the same thing about one of the books that ORA has under
  the Free Documentation License, which he claimed was one of the top
  selling books by ORA)...tho I've also seen many claims to the
  contrary.

  Vox

-- 

Think of the Linux community as a niche economy isolated by its beliefs.  Kind
of like the Amish, except that our religion requires us to use _higher_
technology than everyone else.	     -- Donald B. Marti Jr.



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From: RBlackley@aol.com
Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2002 18:09:10 EDT
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Ummm it sounds interesting but i have been working all day and I'm tired thus 
I didn't actully get past the third paragraph.
Richard


In a message dated 4/20/2002 5:48:30 AM Eastern Daylight Time, 
vox@the-vox.com writes:


> Hi all
> 
>        I've been on the list for about a month, trying to get the gist
>        of how things are here...I want to thank Raymond for the
>        extraordinary world that he has given to us in his books, I've
>        really enjoyed it so far (just need to get my hands on two more
>        books and I can say I've read everything that he has published
>        so far :) 
> 
>        Anyway...being a geek as I am, I was reading slashdot.org a few
>        days ago, and this link came up. I haven't seen it discussed
>        here, so I thought I'd delurk for a bit and ask...what does
>        everybody (specially Raymond, of course) think about the
>        premises that Eric Flint puts forth in this article:
> 
>        http://www.baen.com/library/palaver6.htm
> 
>        Vox
> -- 
> 
> Think of the Linux community as a niche economy isolated by its beliefs.  
> Kind
> of like the Amish, except that our religion requires us to use _higher_
> technology than everyone else.         -- Donald B. Marti Jr.
> 


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*** EOOH ***
From: RBlackley@aol.com
Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2002 18:15:43 EDT
Subject: Re: question about copyrights and suggestions on this list.
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I'm still bewildered.  Let me ask one final question; if I wrote a midkemia 
parody, and e-mailed it to you directly and you as you said were not laughing 
would that be wrong, if I didn't show anyone else?

Richard, who is sounding guiltier by the post but I swear I didn't write one, 
but have very often thought of.

In a message dated 4/20/2002 12:37:11 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
raymond@bittersea.com writes:


> The problem with parody is few can pull it off.  "Bored of the Rings" is 
> a great example (though it is technically a lampoon, but "parody" covers 
> satire, lampoon, and other forms of comic "homage.")
> 
> Do a Midkemia "parody" and if I read it and I'm not laughing, you're 
> probably going to hear from lawyers.
> 
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
> 
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
> stupidity.
> 
> 


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From: RBlackley@aol.com
Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2002 18:16:41 EDT
Subject: Re: question about copyrights and suggestions on this list.
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OK thanks
Richard

In a message dated 4/20/2002 12:38:37 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
raymond@bittersea.com writes:


> 
> 
> 
> On Friday, April 19, 2002, at 02:43 PM, RBlackley@aol.com wrote:
> 
> > So if I wrote a paper that was an alternate ending to, say, rage and 
> > handed it in then that would be illigal.  I know you just said this but 
> > i just want to make sure.  Because I very nearly did last year.
> 
> 
> You picked a somewhat grey area example.  If you did that, that wouldn't 
> be publishing, if you and the TA or prof who read it were the only 
> people to see it.  It's a "writing exercise."  But the problem is, if 
> you start showing it around to friends, make extra copies, etc. you're 
> suddenly over the line.
> 
> Best not to even try it, IMHO.
> 
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
> 
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
> stupidity.
> 
> 


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From: RBlackley@aol.com
Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2002 18:24:43 EDT
Subject: Re: A question about electronic distribution
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The one book I have ever read on a computer was Rip's, and it is taking me 
longer than ever, because i can only stand to read a couple pages a day.   
But think of the enviromental advantages.  
Richard


In a message dated 4/20/2002 5:36:13 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
caranorn@cmdnet.lu writes:


> Simply put, reading a book on a computer is a real nuisance, I have only 
> done it a) to proofread a book for someone, b) because the book is out 
> of print or way too expensive (tends to be old material whose copyright 
> has run out, like a translation of Julius Caesar's de Bello Gallicum) or 
> c) because I wanted to check a few chapters to decide whether I'd like 
> it and then went out and bought a copy.
> 
> But all in all, it usually ain't worth reading a book on a computer and 
> printing them out can be a load of trouble (just a little error and you 
> can end up with several hundred pages useless toilet paper).
> 
> 
> Marc aka Caran...


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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2002 18:00:28 -0700
Subject: Re: question about copyrights and suggestions on this list.
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
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On Saturday, April 20, 2002, at 03:15 PM, RBlackley@aol.com wrote:

> I'm still bewildered.  Let me ask one final question; if I wrote a 
> midkemia parody, and e-mailed it to you directly and you as you said 
> were not laughing would that be wrong, if I didn't show anyone else?
>
> Richard, who is sounding guiltier by the post but I swear I didn't 
> write one, but have very often thought of.
>

As I said in another message, you're mistaking my statement about "not 
laughing."

I was trying to say if it really isn't parody, then you're going to have 
problems.

If you want to do a story about Pog and Tom's Ass, in the land of 
Mudkemia, it doesn't have to be funny.  Parody usually works best if it 
is funny, as that makes it easier to prove it's parody.

I was talking about the purpose of the writing, not the quality.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.

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Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2002 18:04:09 -0700
Subject: Re: A question about electronic distribution
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
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On Saturday, April 20, 2002, at 02:40 PM, Vox wrote:
[snip]

>   Publishers make the decisions on how to publish? even for authors
>   that sell well? What I mean is...don't you get at least some choice
>   in how/when/where your books get published?

Nope.  HarperCollins has hundreds of books a year being published and 
they decide what's best for their overall program as well as how to best 
sell my stuff.  We can disagree, as we are over Talon.  I am not happy 
it's coming out six months later in the US than in the UK.

>
>> Now, Jim Baen's program has not been a big deal with most people, and
>> other publishers are kind of ignoring it.  Jim's a good genre
>> publisher who has put some really good authors out in front of the
>> public,and if his program sells books, great, but it's a bit of an
>> aberration.
>
>   Aberration in what sense? Statistical or practical?  Because he
>   isn't the only author I've seen making this claim (an O'Reilly
>   author said the same thing about one of the books that ORA has under
>   the Free Documentation License, which he claimed was one of the top
>   selling books by ORA)...tho I've also seen many claims to the
>

Aberration in the sense no other publisher is trying the same approach.  
So we have results that are only tied into Baen's methodology, choices 
of what to put up, hyping the site, etc.

If you had four or five houses doing it, the variables in terms of 
style, choices, content, etc. would start to average out and the results 
(if any) would start to make more sense re: how does this stuff impact 
sales?

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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From: "Earl Borah" <earl@ncn.com>
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> OK, you're reading too much into the "if I'm not laughing," i.e. I
> don't have to think it's funny.  It can be bad parody.  It just has to
> be parody.  What I meant was that you can't do a knock off that's 100%
> serious and then try to defend it by calling it "parody."

There was a practical case of this just recently, as I recall. 
Someone wrote a book called "The Wind Done Gone," using characters 
and situations from Gone with the Wind. They tried to say it was 
okay, because it was a parody, so they didn't need to get permission 
from the copyright holder (in this case, the author's estate, I 
believe).

Well, the author's estate took them to court, saying that it wasn't a 
parody, but an attempt at a serious work using their characters and 
situations from the original book. I don't know all the details, and 
Ray or someone else on the list may have followed it more closely, 
but part of the question was whether or not the book could be 
considered a parody, or if it was primarily a serious work that used 
characters and plot elements from GwtW. The first is okay, the second 
is not.

I haven't read it, but I've heard people come down on both sides. 
Some say it's a pathetic piece of trash that doesn't even attempt to 
be funny/satirical/whatever, but tries to make political points. They 
say it's an attempt at a serious work (though these folks typically 
say it's a poor attempt). Others say it's full of inside jokes and 
quite funny (these folks also seem to enjoy it a lot more than the 
first group). Presumably, the judge and/or jury will eventually get 
to decide (or have already decided?), and if they decide it's NOT a 
parody, then the author and publisher will probably have to pay the 
copyright holder a pretty sum.

  - Earl Borah
-----
  If a man speaks in a forest and a woman isn't there to hear it,
  is he still wrong?              (author unknown)



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Yeah I get it thanks, when I wrote that I had not read the later post where 
you explained that.

Thanks
Richard

In a message dated 4/20/2002 9:11:57 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
raymond@bittersea.com writes:


> 
> 
> On Saturday, April 20, 2002, at 03:15 PM, RBlackley@aol.com wrote:
> 
> > I'm still bewildered.  Let me ask one final question; if I wrote a 
> > midkemia parody, and e-mailed it to you directly and you as you said 
> > were not laughing would that be wrong, if I didn't show anyone else?
> >
> > Richard, who is sounding guiltier by the post but I swear I didn't 
> > write one, but have very often thought of.
> >
> 
> As I said in another message, you're mistaking my statement about "not 
> laughing."
> 
> I was trying to say if it really isn't parody, then you're going to have 
> problems.
> 
> If you want to do a story about Pog and Tom's Ass, in the land of 
> Mudkemia, it doesn't have to be funny.  Parody usually works best if it 
> is funny, as that makes it easier to prove it's parody.
> 
> I was talking about the purpose of the writing, not the quality.
> 
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
> 
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
> stupidity.
> 
> 


-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
"Wit is cultured insolence"
                         Aristotle
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Subject: RE: question about copyrights and suggestions on this list. OT
Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2002 12:14:52 +1000
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From: "A Irving" <s355156@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: question about copyrights and suggestions on this list. OT
Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2002 12:14:52 +1000
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> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]
> On Behalf Of Craig J. Ries
> Sent: Sunday, 21 April 2002 3:59 AM
> To: FEISTFANS-L
> Subject: Re: question about copyrights and suggestions on this list.
> Joel Rosenberg wrote:
> >
> > Note, by way of example, how vigorously Microsoft is going after
> Lindows.  I
> > don't think it has much of anything to do with the notion that people
> will
> > confuse Lindows with Windows, but rather that Lindows -- if it does what
> it
> > says it will (which it may, eventually) -- free users of Microsoft
> programs
> > from the MS operating system.
> 
> Well, I don't think I've ever seen a parody that set out to be a
> replacement to the original, so I can't see Lindows as a parody, but a
> genuine competing product.
> 
> I honestly hope that Lindows displaces and eventually replaces Windows.
> :)
> 
> Craig J. Ries
What is Lindows? Is it just an abbreviation for Linux's X-windows? Or is
it more in the actual form of a parody of windows? Where by the error
messages say something like "windows crashed as a result of bill gates
being a toss" .. that would be funny. There is an alternative to
windows, X-windows for linux with star-office, or office-x etc and a
nice GUI for it is a damn efficient system that can open any file-type
normally associated with just MS programs. I should really install it
one day, but in the mean time I will continue to use MS stuff.
I am actually getting quite use to windowsXP (they have it at the
hospital where I study) and am considering installing it at home.. any
comments?
CIAO,
     Aaron



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A Irving wrote:
> 
> What is Lindows? Is it just an abbreviation for Linux's X-windows? Or is
> it more in the actual form of a parody of windows?

It is not a genuine parody, but in fact a Linux-based GUI that will
hopefully one day be able to run any software that Windows can currently
run.

What this means it that we'd have a true alternative to Windows :)
And hopefully one without all the problems of Windows.

Craig J. Ries



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Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com> writes:

> On Saturday, April 20, 2002, at 02:40 PM, Vox wrote:
> [snip]
> 
> >   Publishers make the decisions on how to publish? even for authors
> >   that sell well? What I mean is...don't you get at least some choice
> >   in how/when/where your books get published?
> 
> Nope.  HarperCollins has hundreds of books a year being published and
> they decide what's best for their overall program as well as how to
> best sell my stuff.  We can disagree, as we are over Talon.  I am not
> happy it's coming out six months later in the US than in the UK.

  Mmmm....somehow I think I'm a lot happier about not being a
  published writer...I'd hate loosing control of my stuff like
  that. On the other hand, they are the ones with the money and the
  experience in making the sales, so...I guess writers have not much
  choice in the deal once they sign with a publisher.

> >   Aberration in what sense? Statistical or practical?  Because he
> >   isn't the only author I've seen making this claim (an O'Reilly
> >   author said the same thing about one of the books that ORA has under
> >   the Free Documentation License, which he claimed was one of the top
> >   selling books by ORA)...tho I've also seen many claims to the
> >
> 
> Aberration in the sense no other publisher is trying the same
> approach.  So we have results that are only tied into Baen's
> methodology, choices of what to put up, hyping the site, etc.

  Ok, this makes sense, and I have to agree with you again. Thanks for
  explaining. 

> If you had four or five houses doing it, the variables in terms of

  Unfortunately, I doubt this will happen in the near future.

  Vox

-- 
Pain is the gift of the gods, and I'm the one they chose as their messenger....
For info on safety in the BDSM lifestyle http://www.the-vox.com

Think of the Linux community as a niche economy isolated by its beliefs.  Kind
of like the Amish, except that our religion requires us to use _higher_
technology than everyone else.	     -- Donald B. Marti Jr.



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Subject: OT: Lindows/Linux (was Re: question about copyrights and suggestions on this list. OT)
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Subject: OT: Lindows/Linux (was Re: question about copyrights and suggestions on this list. OT)
Organization: Vox's Info Center
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"A Irving" <s355156@student.uq.edu.au> writes:

> > From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]
> > On Behalf Of Craig J. Ries
> > Sent: Sunday, 21 April 2002 3:59 AM
> > To: FEISTFANS-L
> > Subject: Re: question about copyrights and suggestions on this list.
> > Joel Rosenberg wrote:
> > >
> > > Note, by way of example, how vigorously Microsoft is going after
> > Lindows.  I
> > > don't think it has much of anything to do with the notion that
> people
> > will
> > > confuse Lindows with Windows, but rather that Lindows -- if it does
> what
> > it
> > > says it will (which it may, eventually) -- free users of Microsoft
> > programs
> > > from the MS operating system.
> > 
> > Well, I don't think I've ever seen a parody that set out to be a
> > replacement to the original, so I can't see Lindows as a parody, but a
> > genuine competing product.
> > 
> > I honestly hope that Lindows displaces and eventually replaces
> Windows.
> > :)
> > 
> > Craig J. Ries
> What is Lindows? Is it just an abbreviation for Linux's X-windows?
> Or is

  Lindows is a linux that's going to be able to run windows programs
  without much problem, or so the company making it says. They are
  using wineX or one of the other commercially developed wine
  projects, so I *think* they may get it, depending on how hard they
  push the development...but I don't think it'll happen in 1.0

> I am actually getting quite use to windowsXP (they have it at the
> hospital where I study) and am considering installing it at home.. any
> comments?

  If you don't mind MS owning your life and information, go ahead. I
  can survive nicely with linux, and do everything I need to do for my
  business and more. If you are willing to learn, give Mandrake8.2 a
  try, it may be worth it for you.

  Vox

-- 
Pain is the gift of the gods, and I'm the one they chose as their messenger....
For info on safety in the BDSM lifestyle http://www.the-vox.com

Think of the Linux community as a niche economy isolated by its beliefs.  Kind
of like the Amish, except that our religion requires us to use _higher_
technology than everyone else.	     -- Donald B. Marti Jr.



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From: "Ben Nielson" <ben@hallofworlds.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2002 02:00:27 -0600
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On 20 Apr 2002, at 18:00, Raymond Feist wrote:
> 
> As I said in another message, you're mistaking my statement about "not 
> laughing."
> 
> I was trying to say if it really isn't parody, then you're going to have 
> problems.
> 
> If you want to do a story about Pog and Tom's Ass, in the land of 
> Mudkemia, it doesn't have to be funny.  Parody usually works best if it 
> is funny, as that makes it easier to prove it's parody.
> 
> I was talking about the purpose of the writing, not the quality.
> 
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
> 
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
> stupidity.
> 

I'm curious how these rules pertain to open forum websites like the 
one I run.  If a user posts something that infringes on your 
copyrights, am I (as the webmaster) responsible for that content 
(say, if I missed it and it accidentally stayed up)?  I really don't 
think you would do much besides ask us to remove it (er, would 
you? *g*), but I'm just curious as to where the responsibilities lie...

And for anyone interested, here's a Midkemia related parody 
posted on the forums a while back...
http://www.hallofworlds.net/feist/cgi-
bin/new_forum/ikonboard.cgi?s=3cc245c445cfffff;act=ST;f=1;t=121;
st=0
-----
Ben Nielson
The Hall of Worlds - http://feist.hallofworlds.net
"If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, riddle them with arrows."



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Subject: Re: Magic and Technology
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From: "Moga Naidoo" <moganaidoo@telkomsa.net>
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Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2002 10:23:33 -0000
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DON"T SEND ANY MORE MAILLLLL !

Thank You
----- Original Message -----
From: <lists@bjs.org.uk>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Saturday, April 13, 2002 7:03 PM
Subject: Re: Magic and Technology


> #insert $0.01 worth
>
> A couple of ideas
>
> I see no reason why steam power could not be invented, and it also seems
> reasonable to invent some sort of internal combustion engine running on
> Quegan fire oil
>
> Of course, this sort of thing can wait until long after the 5th riftwar :-)
>
> BJS
>
>



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From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
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> What is Lindows? Is it just an abbreviation for Linux's X-windows? Or is
> it more in the actual form of a parody of windows? Where by the error
> messages say something like "windows crashed as a result of bill gates
> being a toss" .. that would be funny. There is an alternative to
> windows, X-windows for linux with star-office, or office-x etc and a
> nice GUI for it is a damn efficient system that can open any file-type
> normally associated with just MS programs. I should really install it
> one day, but in the mean time I will continue to use MS stuff.
> I am actually getting quite use to windowsXP (they have it at the
> hospital where I study) and am considering installing it at home.. any
> comments?
> CIAO,
>      Aaron

I find XP rather annoying, it replaces efficiency with "prettiness". IMOHO
win 2k is far superior....(plus its far too over priced)

While I've never heard of "lindows" I assume its some kind of
windows-esque Linux IDE...(Don't think its an abbreviation of
X-Windows...)

Thanks
Darragh
================================================
University of Queensland
Information Technology / Arts (History) student
[Email #1] s356179@student.uq.edu.au
[Email #2] squik@solutionone.com.au
[Web Site] http://hainsworth.ath.cx/~squik/
================================================



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From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
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Subject: RE: question about copyrights and suggestions on this list. OT
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Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2002 19:51:18 +1000 (GMT+1000)
From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: question about copyrights and suggestions on this list. OT
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I meant GUI, not IDE
...dammit:)

Thanks
Darragh
================================================
University of Queensland
Information Technology / Arts (History) student
[Email #1] s356179@student.uq.edu.au
[Email #2] squik@solutionone.com.au
[Web Site] http://hainsworth.ath.cx/~squik/
================================================



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From: RBlackley@aol.com
Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2002 10:26:24 EDT
Subject: Re: question about copyrights and suggestions on this list. OT
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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Well I don't know about lindows, but I have windows Xp and so far it has been 
great.  No crashes since December, when I got it!
Richard

In a message dated 4/20/2002 10:32:53 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
s355156@student.uq.edu.au writes:


> What is Lindows? Is it just an abbreviation for Linux's X-windows? Or is
> it more in the actual form of a parody of windows? Where by the error
> messages say something like "windows crashed as a result of bill gates
> being a toss" .. that would be funny. There is an alternative to
> windows, X-windows for linux with star-office, or office-x etc and a
> nice GUI for it is a damn efficient system that can open any file-type
> normally associated with just MS programs. I should really install it
> one day, but in the mean time I will continue to use MS stuff.
> I am actually getting quite use to windowsXP (they have it at the
> hospital where I study) and am considering installing it at home.. any
> comments?
> CIAO,
>      Aaron
> 


-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
"Wit is cultured insolence"
                         Aristotle
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Craig J. Ries wrote:

> A Irving wrote:
> 
>>What is Lindows? Is it just an abbreviation for Linux's X-windows? Or is
>>it more in the actual form of a parody of windows?
>>
> It is not a genuine parody, but in fact a Linux-based GUI that will
> hopefully one day be able to run any software that Windows can currently
> run.
> 
> What this means it that we'd have a true alternative to Windows :)
> And hopefully one without all the problems of Windows.


It's basically a pretty front-end to the WINE Windows emulator for 
Linux.  WINE will run most Windows programs already (until MicroSoft 
changes the standards again), but Lindows is designed to make tat more 
transparent.


cd
-- 
Death to all Absolutists!



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Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2002 11:16:15 -0600
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: question about copyrights and suggestions on this list. OT
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Carl Dershem wrote:
> 
> WINE will run most Windows programs already (until MicroSoft
> changes the standards again),

Ha! What standards?

Anytime anybody tries to come up with a useful standard... hell,
anything useful period... MS has to go off and do it their own way, ala
Java vs C#.

Craig J. Ries



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Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2002 10:28:45 -0700
Subject: Re: question about copyrights and suggestions on this list.
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
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On Saturday, April 20, 2002, at 06:27 PM, Earl Borah wrote:

>> OK, you're reading too much into the "if I'm not laughing," i.e. I
>> don't have to think it's funny.  It can be bad parody.  It just has to
>> be parody.  What I meant was that you can't do a knock off that's 100%
>> serious and then try to defend it by calling it "parody."
>
> There was a practical case of this just recently, as I recall.
> Someone wrote a book called "The Wind Done Gone," using characters
> and situations from Gone with the Wind. They tried to say it was
> okay, because it was a parody, so they didn't need to get permission
> from the copyright holder (in this case, the author's estate, I
> believe).
>
> Well, the author's estate took them to court, saying that it wasn't a
> parody, but an attempt at a serious work using their characters and
> situations from the original book. I don't know all the details, and
> Ray or someone else on the list may have followed it more closely,
> but part of the question was whether or not the book could be
> considered a parody, or if it was primarily a serious work that used
> characters and plot elements from GwtW. The first is okay, the second
> is not.
>
> I haven't read it, but I've heard people come down on both sides.
> Some say it's a pathetic piece of trash that doesn't even attempt to
> be funny/satirical/whatever, but tries to make political points. They
> say it's an attempt at a serious work (though these folks typically
> say it's a poor attempt). Others say it's full of inside jokes and
> quite funny (these folks also seem to enjoy it a lot more than the
> first group). Presumably, the judge and/or jury will eventually get
> to decide (or have already decided?), and if they decide it's NOT a
> parody, then the author and publisher will probably have to pay the
> copyright holder a pretty sum.
>

Already decided.  Wind Done Gone was parody.  Which is why you can buy 
it in the store today.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2002 10:33:32 -0700
Subject: Re: question about copyrights and suggestions on this list.
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Sunday, April 21, 2002, at 01:00 AM, Ben Nielson wrote:

> On 20 Apr 2002, at 18:00, Raymond Feist wrote:
>>
>> As I said in another message, you're mistaking my statement about "not
>> laughing."
>>
>> I was trying to say if it really isn't parody, then you're going to 
>> have
>> problems.
>>
>> If you want to do a story about Pog and Tom's Ass, in the land of
>> Mudkemia, it doesn't have to be funny.  Parody usually works best if it
>> is funny, as that makes it easier to prove it's parody.
>>
>> I was talking about the purpose of the writing, not the quality.
>>
>> Best, R.E.F.
>> ----
>>
>> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
>> stupidity.
>>
>
> I'm curious how these rules pertain to open forum websites like the
> one I run.  If a user posts something that infringes on your
> copyrights, am I (as the webmaster) responsible for that content
> (say, if I missed it and it accidentally stayed up)?  I really don't
> think you would do much besides ask us to remove it (er, would
> you? *g*), but I'm just curious as to where the responsibilities lie...
>

If you KNOWINGLY permit an infringement on your site, you're on the 
hook.  If you're unaware it's an infringement and yank it when the 
right's holder informs you of the violation of copyright, you're 
probably OK.  AOL has spent millions defending this and there is case 
law pending, so at this point there's no hard-and-fast rule.

> And for anyone interested, here's a Midkemia related parody
> posted on the forums a while back...
> http://www.hallofworlds.net/feist/cgi-
> bin/new_forum/ikonboard.cgi?s=3cc245c445cfffff;act=ST;f=1;t=121;
> st=0
>

Cute.  Very apt example of simple parody.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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>What is Lindows? Is it just an abbreviation for Linux's X-windows? Or is

Lindows is a Hybrid Product designed to run both windows and linux
programs natively.

I use X-windows currently and specifically the KDE operating
environment and I much prefer them running on top of Mandrake then
Windows.

Falerin

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At 05:29 PM 4/20/02, Raymond Feist wrote:
>Now, Jim Baen's program has not been a big deal with most people, 
>and other publishers are kind of ignoring it.  Jim's a good genre 
>publisher who has put some really good authors out in front of the 
>public,and if his program sells books, great, but it's a bit of an 
>aberration.

I'm sorry to disagree with you Ray, but I don't think it is an
aberration.  Since I found the Baen Library, I've spent UKP 150
(over $200 US) on almost 20 books from three authors (Elisabeth 
Moon, David Weber, John Ringo).  I would not have spent that 
kind of money without the "test-drive" that the free library
afforded me.

I admit that it /is/ currently only the single instance (and once
is a fluke, it takes two to have a statistical universe).  But
the fact that the other publishers' bean-counters won't let them
take a risk even on some of their older-and-just-barely-in-print
titles, doesn't mean that the method is invalid.

Certainly for someone like me, with only a single complete novel,
probably in today's 'soft' market, the only way I will get 
published is by letting people test-drive it, pay for it using
PayPal, and then taking that info to a publisher ("proven success!")

rip



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From: "Donal K. Fellows" <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: question about copyrights and suggestions on this list. OT
Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 10:04:23 +0100
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"Donges, William E.,, III" <wdonges@lhup.edu>
>> What is Lindows? Is it just an abbreviation for Linux's X-windows? Or is
> 
> Lindows is a Hybrid Product designed to run both windows and linux
> programs natively.

May I remind *all* here that this discussion is straying perilously
close to operating systems, which is a banned topic (brutal experience
suggests that all heat and no light makes for a poor list!)  If you
wish to continue this, please take it off the list; private email is
probably the way to go, though there are many other mechanisms as well
(web boards, IRC and USENET all spring to mind.)  Thanks!

Donal (who's views on the topic, but prefers to leave them at the door.)
-- 
Donal K. Fellows, Department of Computer Science, University of Manchester, UK.
(work) fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk     Tel: +44-161-275-6137  (preferred email addr.)
(home) donal@ugglan.demon.co.uk  Tel: +44-1274-401017   Mobile: +44-7957-298955
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In-reply-to: <23.1cf967cf.29f344ab@aol.com> (RBlackley@aol.com)
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From: "Donal K. Fellows" <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: A question about electronic distribution
Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 10:07:59 +0100
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RBlackley@aol.com
> The one book I have ever read on a computer was Rip's, and it is
> taking me longer than ever, because i can only stand to read a
> couple pages a day.  But think of the enviromental advantages.

Environmental advantages?  That sounds like you are suggesting that
computers are pollution-free consumer goods, whereas I've never heard
anyone claim that electricity generation or battery manufacture is
without environmental side-effects...

Donal.
-- 
Donal K. Fellows, Department of Computer Science, University of Manchester, UK.
(work) fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk     Tel: +44-161-275-6137  (preferred email addr.)
(home) donal@ugglan.demon.co.uk  Tel: +44-1274-401017   Mobile: +44-7957-298955
http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~fellowsd/  (Don't quote my .sig; I've seen it before!)



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In-reply-to: <20020420182222.1A12423295@msp-65-25-234-54.mn.rr.com> (message
	from Joel Rosenberg on Sat, 20 Apr 2002 13:22:21 -0500)
Subject: Re: A question about electronic distribution
References: <E2F7DAF5-5488-11D6-A4CD-003065A8A644@bittersea.com> <20020420182222.1A12423295@msp-65-25-234-54.mn.rr.com>
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Donal K. Fellows" <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: A question about electronic distribution
Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 10:11:53 +0100
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Joel Rosenberg <joelr@ellegon.com>
> On Saturday 20 April 2002 01:03 pm, you wrote:
>> Joel, did you mean to send this to the list?
> Well, no, but I apparently did -- hit the wrong button.  

The list (unusually) modifies the Reply-To: field on messages; sending
a private message usually requires extra action to modify the address.
(OTOH, with many lists there's a problem the other way with people
replying and sending the message to somewhere other than the list
instead of where they intended.  Mail software isn't really subtle
enough to provide the distinctions really needed IMHO.)

Donal.
-- 
Donal K. Fellows, Department of Computer Science, University of Manchester, UK.
(work) fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk     Tel: +44-161-275-6137  (preferred email addr.)
(home) donal@ugglan.demon.co.uk  Tel: +44-1274-401017   Mobile: +44-7957-298955
http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~fellowsd/  (Don't quote my .sig; I've seen it before!)



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From: "Dave White" <dave@davewhite.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: A question about electronic distribution
Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 10:24:43 +0100
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Dave White" <dave@davewhite.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: A question about electronic distribution
Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 10:24:43 +0100
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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I've been reading books on a PDA for quite some time now.  I have to
say, that once you overcome the initial annoyance at having to advance a
page every two or three sentences, then they actually become really easy
to read.  While I would prefer to read paper books, there's a lot to be
said about having several books within such a small space.
Raymond, are there any plans to release your works in E-Book format?
I'd be a very willing buyer for those :-)

Regards
Dave White

-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Donal K. Fellows
>Sent: 22 April 2002 10:08
>To: FEISTFANS-L
>Subject: Re: A question about electronic distribution
>
>
>RBlackley@aol.com
>> The one book I have ever read on a computer was Rip's, and it is 
>> taking me longer than ever, because i can only stand to read a couple 
>> pages a day.  But think of the enviromental advantages.
>
>Environmental advantages?  That sounds like you are suggesting that
>computers are pollution-free consumer goods, whereas I've never heard
>anyone claim that electricity generation or battery manufacture is
>without environmental side-effects...
>
>Donal.
>-- 
>Donal K. Fellows, Department of Computer Science, University of
>Manchester, UK.
>(work) fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk     Tel: +44-161-275-6137  (preferred email
>addr.)
>(home) donal@ugglan.demon.co.uk  Tel: +44-1274-401017   Mobile:
>+44-7957-298955
>http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~fellowsd/  (Don't quote my .sig; I've seen it
>before!)
>


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Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 07:35:24 -0400
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: OT- Re:A question about electronic distribution
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*** EOOH ***
From: RBlackley@aol.com
Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 07:35:24 -0400
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: OT- Re:A question about electronic distribution
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

But the ability to have an infinate books contained on the single unit
should eventually beat the # of trees you aught to have cut  down.
This is assuming that you rread most books via the PDA.  I dunno
really, it was just a thought.
Richard
RBlackley@aol.com
>> The one book I have ever read on a computer was Rip's, and it is
>> taking me longer than ever, because i can only stand to read a
>> couple pages a day.  But think of the enviromental advantages.
>
>Environmental advantages?  That sounds like you are suggesting that
>computers are pollution-free consumer goods, whereas I've never heard
>anyone claim that electricity generation or battery manufacture is
>without environmental side-effects...
>
>Donal.
>-- 
>Donal K. Fellows, Department of Computer Science, University of Manchester, UK.
>(work) fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk     Tel: +44-161-275-6137  (preferred email addr.)
>(home) donal@ugglan.demon.co.uk  Tel: +44-1274-401017   Mobile: +44-7957-298955
>http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~fellowsd/  (Don't quote my .sig; I've seen it before!)



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*** EOOH ***
From: RMAskren@aol.com
Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 08:05:53 EDT
Subject: Re: A question about electronic distribution
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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In a message dated 4/22/02 2:33:08 AM Pacific Daylight Time, 
dave@davewhite.net writes:
> Raymond, are there any plans to release your works in E-Book format?
> I'd be a very willing buyer for those :-)

The first three books in the Riftwar Legacy are available in electronic 
format from Amazon.com, Barnes & Noble, and Peanut Press...Krondor: The 
Betrayal, Krondor: The Assassins, and Krondor: Tear of the Gods.

-Ralph
Visit Elvandar.com and the Unofficial Atlas to the Worlds of Raymond E. Feist
http://www.elvandar.com



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From: "Donal K. Fellows" <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk>
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In-reply-to: <78042854.49380DAE.0257027D@aol.com> (RBlackley@aol.com)
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Donal K. Fellows" <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT- Re:A question about electronic distribution
Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 13:22:22 +0100
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

RBlackley@aol.com
> But the ability to have an infinate books contained on the single unit
> should eventually beat the # of trees you aught to have cut  down.
> This is assuming that you rread most books via the PDA.  I dunno
> really, it was just a thought.

Ah, but it inherently costs more resources to read a book using a PDA
than it does to read it on dead-tree.  With printed matter, I can just
sit somewhere sunny and read, with no further resources being used.  I
am not aware of any PDA that doesn't require power to run, but if
there is, please let me know...  <eg>

Donal.
-- 
Donal K. Fellows, Department of Computer Science, University of Manchester, UK.
(work) fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk     Tel: +44-161-275-6137  (preferred email addr.)
(home) donal@ugglan.demon.co.uk  Tel: +44-1274-401017   Mobile: +44-7957-298955
http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~fellowsd/  (Don't quote my .sig; I've seen it before!)



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Subject: Re: A question about electronic distribution
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From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: A question about electronic distribution
Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 08:48:41 -0500
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    Actually computer create  all kinds of environmental problems.
Including the use of energy, and the emission of some radiation,
computers are not easily recyclable and break down into harmful
chemicals and contaminants that completely degrade ecosystems and
leach into drinking water supplies.  All in all computers are far
more damaging to the environment in the long run that almost any
other media we use.
    Printing books and papers isn't a problem for the environment,
it is why trees are considered a renewable resource, provided we are
reasonable about what we use, and reuse things where we can (like
newspapers).  All in all using paper isn't going to be the thing
that sinks the environment.  Fossil Fuels are another matter.

-James

> > The one book I have ever read on a computer was Rip's, and it is
> > taking me longer than ever, because i can only stand to read a
> > couple pages a day.  But think of the enviromental advantages.
>
> Environmental advantages?  That sounds like you are suggesting that
> computers are pollution-free consumer goods, whereas I've never heard
> anyone claim that electricity generation or battery manufacture is
> without environmental side-effects...
>
> Donal.
> --



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Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 08:59:03 -0700
Subject: Re: A question about electronic distribution
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Monday, April 22, 2002, at 01:33 AM, Richard Williamson wrote:

> At 05:29 PM 4/20/02, Raymond Feist wrote:
>> Now, Jim Baen's program has not been a big deal with most people,
>> and other publishers are kind of ignoring it.  Jim's a good genre
>> publisher who has put some really good authors out in front of the
>> public,and if his program sells books, great, but it's a bit of an
>> aberration.
>
> I'm sorry to disagree with you Ray, but I don't think it is an
> aberration.  Since I found the Baen Library, I've spent UKP 150
> (over $200 US) on almost 20 books from three authors (Elisabeth
> Moon, David Weber, John Ringo).  I would not have spent that
> kind of money without the "test-drive" that the free library
> afforded me.

As I said in an earlier message, it's an aberration in the statistical 
sense, i.e. no one else in the industry is rushing to copy Jim's 
program, so we have a limited statistical sample to judge impact on 
print publishing.

>
> I admit that it /is/ currently only the single instance (and once
> is a fluke, it takes two to have a statistical universe).  But
> the fact that the other publishers' bean-counters won't let them
> take a risk even on some of their older-and-just-barely-in-print
> titles, doesn't mean that the method is invalid.
>

Never said it was.  Just said it was an aberration.  If Jim continues it 
and word around the water cooler indicates it's successful, other 
publishers might come aboard.  If Jim folds it, other publishes will 
cluck tongues and say, "There you go."

> Certainly for someone like me, with only a single complete novel,
> probably in today's 'soft' market, the only way I will get
> published is by letting people test-drive it, pay for it using
> PayPal, and then taking that info to a publisher ("proven success!")
>
Unfortunately, self-publishing almost never counts.  For every example 
of a book that was originally self-published that gets picked up by a 
traditional publisher and does well, there are thousands that don't.

The trick is to peddle the damn thing to everyone and then write another 
one.  Works for a lot of folks. <g>

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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From: "John Jeffries" <johncjeffries@hotmail.com>
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I think for myself....I'm not interested in a parody of REF's world, or any 
other type of non-REF lit. about his world.  I remind everybody though, 
before I get flamed or whatever, thats just me.  Some people like it some 
not.  Next topic.  Looking forward to your next book Mr. Feist....

John

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From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: A question about electronic distribution
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Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 17:41:55 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: A question about electronic distribution
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At 04:59 PM 4/22/02, Raymond Feist wrote:
>On Monday, April 22, 2002, at 01:33 AM, Richard Williamson wrote:
>>I'm sorry to disagree with you Ray, but I don't think it is an
>>aberration.  Since I found the Baen Library, I've spent UKP 150
>>(over $200 US) on almost 20 books from three authors (Elisabeth
>>Moon, David Weber, John Ringo).  I would not have spent that
>>kind of money without the "test-drive" that the free library
>>afforded me.
>
>As I said in an earlier message, it's an aberration in the statistical sense, 
>i.e. no one else in the industry is rushing to copy Jim's program, so we have 
>a limited statistical sample to judge impact on print publishing.

Ok, didn't realize that we were saying the same thing, just using
different language (fluke == aberration)

>>I admit that it /is/ currently only the single instance (and once
>>is a fluke, it takes two to have a statistical universe).  But
>>the fact that the other publishers' bean-counters won't let them
>>take a risk even on some of their older-and-just-barely-in-print
>>titles, doesn't mean that the method is invalid.
>
>Never said it was.  Just said it was an aberration.  If Jim continues it and 
>word around the water cooler indicates it's successful, other publishers might 
>come aboard.  If Jim folds it, other publishes will cluck tongues and say, 
>"There you go."

Love that image.

>>Certainly for someone like me, with only a single complete novel,
>>probably in today's 'soft' market, the only way I will get
>>published is by letting people test-drive it, pay for it using
>>PayPal, and then taking that info to a publisher ("proven success!")
>Unfortunately, self-publishing almost never counts.  For every example of a book 
>that was originally self-published that gets picked up by a traditional publisher 
>and does well, there are thousands that don't.
>
>The trick is to peddle the damn thing to everyone and then write another one.  
>Works for a lot of folks. <g>

That's effectively what I'm planning.  Use the self-published one just as 'bait',
and flog the second one.  That way, at least people have the chance to /read/
the first one.  

rip



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From: Joel Rosenberg <joelr@ellegon.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: A question about electronic distribution
Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 11:39:08 -0500
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On Monday 22 April 2002 10:59 am, you wrote:
> On Monday, April 22, 2002, at 01:33 AM, Richard Williamson wrote:
> > At 05:29 PM 4/20/02, Raymond Feist wrote:
> >> Now, Jim Baen's program has not been a big deal with most people,
> >> and other publishers are kind of ignoring it.  Jim's a good genre
> >> publisher who has put some really good authors out in front of the
> >> public,and if his program sells books, great, but it's a bit of an
> >> aberration.
> >
> > I'm sorry to disagree with you Ray, but I don't think it is an
> > aberration.  Since I found the Baen Library, I've spent UKP 150
> > (over $200 US) on almost 20 books from three authors (Elisabeth
> > Moon, David Weber, John Ringo).  I would not have spent that
> > kind of money without the "test-drive" that the free library
> > afforded me.
>
> As I said in an earlier message, it's an aberration in the statistical
> sense, i.e. no one else in the industry is rushing to copy Jim's
> program, so we have a limited statistical sample to judge impact on
> print publishing.

Yup.  And we don't even have the full statistical sample -- Eric is, 
understandably, not publishing other writers' figures, and there's no way to 
check his conclusions about them.  (I don't, for a moment, doubt he's being 
honest -- but he can't share all the information without permission, and it's 
hard to draw your own conclusions without all of the data.)   

>
> > I admit that it /is/ currently only the single instance (and once
> > is a fluke, it takes two to have a statistical universe).  But
> > the fact that the other publishers' bean-counters won't let them
> > take a risk even on some of their older-and-just-barely-in-print
> > titles, doesn't mean that the method is invalid.
>
> Never said it was.  Just said it was an aberration.  If Jim continues it
> and word around the water cooler indicates it's successful, other
> publishers might come aboard.  If Jim folds it, other publishes will
> cluck tongues and say, "There you go."

It'll be interesting to see.  If one of the other major publishers does, and 
it gets anything like the results Jim has seen, everybody will do it.  I 
doubt that he'll fold it, though; the folks involved all seem to be happy, 
and bits are cheap.  

But I think that the way publishing companies work militates against anybody 
taking it up, until Weber (or somebody else published by Baen; Weber's just 
the most likely near-term candidate) starts hitting the Times list, and 
talking about the BFL in the trade/general press.  At which point, sure as 
anything, somebody senior at some big publisher (probably S&S or Penguin) is 
going to call an editor-in-chief or two into his/her office, and say, "Why 
haven't we been doing this, too?"



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From: "Wouter Durnez" <arutha_of_krondor@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re: My Take on all this
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Subject: Re: My Take on all this
Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 17:07:45 +0000
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Absolutely John. Raymond's work is his own, and that's all there is to say 
about that. His imagination is his own, and it's not to be copied by 
pathetic fakers.

>From: "John Jeffries" <johncjeffries@hotmail.com>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: FeistFans-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
>Subject: My Take on all this
>Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 16:28:27 +0000
>
>I think for myself....I'm not interested in a parody of REF's world, or any
>other type of non-REF lit. about his world.  I remind everybody though,
>before I get flamed or whatever, thats just me.  Some people like it some
>not.  Next topic.  Looking forward to your next book Mr. Feist....
>
>John
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
>http://www.hotmail.com
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Subject: Tour
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 11:00:33 -0700
Subject: Tour
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: fEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

OK,

I was told today that I'll be leaving San Diego on September 8th and 
returning September 28th.

England and Australia for certain.  Scotland, probably.  Ireland and 
Holland, maybe.  New Zealand and South Africa, probably not because of 
the time frame.

Don't ask me where!  I don't know.

As soon as I know, you'll know.

(Now watch, someone will say, "Well, I know you said not to ask, but do 
you think you might be visiting . . . ")

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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From: "Rob Kolech" <feistfan@rogers.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Tour
Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 14:52:49 -0400
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Rob Kolech" <feistfan@rogers.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Tour
Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 14:52:49 -0400
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DAMN, no Canada.  Oh well I have be patient I guess, maybe someday!

Rob Kolech

-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Raymond Feist
>Sent: April 22, 2002 2:01 PM
>To: FEISTFANS-L
>Subject: Tour
>
>
>OK,
>
>I was told today that I'll be leaving San Diego on September 8th and 
>returning September 28th.
>
>England and Australia for certain.  Scotland, probably.  Ireland and 
>Holland, maybe.  New Zealand and South Africa, probably not because of 
>the time frame.
>
>Don't ask me where!  I don't know.
>
>As soon as I know, you'll know.
>
>(Now watch, someone will say, "Well, I know you said not to ask, but do 
>you think you might be visiting . . . ")
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
>stupidity.
>


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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 13:13:11 -0700
Subject: Re: Tour
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Monday, April 22, 2002, at 11:52 AM, Rob Kolech wrote:

> DAMN, no Canada.  Oh well I have be patient I guess, maybe someday!
>

The North American tour will be about a year from now.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
From: Valheru22@aol.com
Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 16:07:49 EDT
Subject: ? for ray
To: feistfans-l@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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I have a quetion for Ray; When you first started writing did you find that it 
was hard to remember like locations, and charaters names?

 -Chance
"We who are truly brave, will never live in fear." -The Rock

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From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Tour
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 04:44:43 +0800
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*** EOOH ***
From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Tour
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 04:44:43 +0800
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Ray,

Is this a promotional tour for Murder in LaMut, Talon, or something else
(although I have no idea what that might be)?

David



> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu 
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Raymond Feist
> Sent: Tuesday, 23 April 2002 2:01 AM
> To: FEISTFANS-L
> Subject: Tour
> 
> 
> OK,
> 
> I was told today that I'll be leaving San Diego on September 8th and 
> returning September 28th.
> 
> England and Australia for certain.  Scotland, probably.  Ireland and 
> Holland, maybe.  New Zealand and South Africa, probably not 
> because of 
> the time frame.
> 
> Don't ask me where!  I don't know.
> 
> As soon as I know, you'll know.
> 
> (Now watch, someone will say, "Well, I know you said not to 
> ask, but do 
> you think you might be visiting . . . ")
> 
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
> 
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be 
> explained away by 
> stupidity.
> 



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Subject: Re: OT- Re:A question about electronic distribution
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*** EOOH ***
From: RBlackley@aol.com
Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 17:27:54 EDT
Subject: Re: OT- Re:A question about electronic distribution
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

       Your probably correct.  But have you not hear of fan powered PDA's?  <
g>

       Richard
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
"Wit is cultured insolence"
                         Aristotle
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-

In a message dated 4/22/2002 8:34:53 AM Eastern Daylight Time, 
fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk writes:


> 
> RBlackley@aol.com
> > But the ability to have an infinate books contained on the single unit
> > should eventually beat the # of trees you aught to have cut  down.
> > This is assuming that you rread most books via the PDA.  I dunno
> > really, it was just a thought.
> 
> Ah, but it inherently costs more resources to read a book using a PDA
> than it does to read it on dead-tree.  With printed matter, I can just
> sit somewhere sunny and read, with no further resources being used.  I
> am not aware of any PDA that doesn't require power to run, but if
> there is, please let me know...  <eg>
> 
> Donal.
> -- 
> Donal K. Fellows, Department of Computer Science, University of Manchester, 
> UK.
> (work) fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk     Tel: +44-161-275-6137  (preferred email 
> addr.)
> (home) donal@ugglan.demon.co.uk  Tel: +44-1274-401017   Mobile: 
> +44-7957-298955
> http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~fellowsd/  (Don't quote my .sig; I've seen it 
> before!)


-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
"Wit is cultured insolence"
                         Aristotle
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-

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Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 19:49:56 +0100
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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Grandad Rufus <rufo@bigwig.net>
Subject: Re: Tour
References: <D7677B84-561A-11D6-9A67-003065A8A644@bittersea.com>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 19:49:56 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Grandad Rufus <rufo@bigwig.net>
Subject: Re: Tour
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

In article <D7677B84-561A-11D6-9A67-003065A8A644@bittersea.com>, Raymond
Feist <raymond@bittersea.com> writes
>OK,
>
>I was told today that I'll be leaving San Diego on September 8th and 
>returning September 28th.
>
>England and Australia for certain.  Scotland, probably.  Ireland and 
>Holland, maybe.  New Zealand and South Africa, probably not because of 
>the time frame.
>
>Don't ask me where!  I don't know.
>
>As soon as I know, you'll know.
>
>(Now watch, someone will say, "Well, I know you said not to ask, but do 
>you think you might be visiting . . . ")
>

So long as I'm in front of John in the queue I'll be happy 

#:o)


>Best, R.E.F.
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
>stupidity.
>

-- 
*******
Grandad Rufus.

It's not that I have a dirty mind, you understand.
It's just that so many of my thoughts leave muddy little footprints...



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 14:47:34 -0700
Subject: Re: Tour
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Monday, April 22, 2002, at 01:44 PM, David Pengelley wrote:

> Ray,
>
> Is this a promotional tour for Murder in LaMut, Talon, or something else
> (although I have no idea what that might be)?
>
>

Talon and the 20th Anniversary of Magician.  Murder will be out in May.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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From: "Cameron Duncan" <cduncan@atinera.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Tour
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 07:41:59 +1000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Cameron Duncan" <cduncan@atinera.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Tour
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 07:41:59 +1000
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Grandad Rufus
> Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 4:50 AM
> To: FEISTFANS-L
> Subject: Re: Tour
> 
> 
> In article <D7677B84-561A-11D6-9A67-003065A8A644@bittersea.com>, Raymond
> Feist <raymond@bittersea.com> writes
> >OK,
> >
> >I was told today that I'll be leaving San Diego on September 8th and 
> >returning September 28th.
> >
> >England and Australia for certain.  Scotland, probably.  Ireland and 
> >Holland, maybe.  New Zealand and South Africa, probably not because of 
> >the time frame.
> >
> >Don't ask me where!  I don't know.
> >
> >As soon as I know, you'll know.
> >
> >(Now watch, someone will say, "Well, I know you said not to ask, but do 
> >you think you might be visiting . . . ")
> >
> 
> So long as I'm in front of John in the queue I'll be happy 
> 
> #:o)
> 
> 
> >Best, R.E.F.
> >----
> >
> >Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
> >stupidity.
> >
> 
> -- 
> *******
> Grandad Rufus.
> 
> It's not that I have a dirty mind, you understand.
> It's just that so many of my thoughts leave muddy little footprints...
> 
> 
He'll probably be the one standing in line with several trolleys full 
of books and 3 or 4 very big security guards standing over them!
(Sorry John, couldn't resist <BG>)

Cameron



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Subject: Re: Swashbuckling
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Subject: Re: Swashbuckling
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> Now, if you want to see what is (IMHO) the most
> "realistic" sword fighting on film, rent the videos of Ken Russel's The
> Three/Four Musketeers.

Well, does anyone remember the sword fight between Wesley and Montoya
in The Princess Bride ? :)))

Syl

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Subject: Re: Tour
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>(Now watch, someone will say, "Well, I know you said not to ask, but do
>you think you might be visiting . . . ")

Well, just to make that little prophecy accurate... Do you think you're
visiting <insert place>... @;O)=

Just kidding...

GTF



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*** EOOH ***
From: "Dave White" <dave@davewhite.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Tour
Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 23:19:08 +0100
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I'm curious about that... apart from book signings and promotional events,
what else happens on a tour?  I'm sure I'll get flamed for this, but I'd
think that you can hear "Mr. Feist I love your work more than..." only so
many times before it gets boring, even annoying.  I write software for a
fairly large and well known online service for a living, and if I had a
pound (dollar, whatever) for every time someone offered their opinion on my
work then I could take a nice holiday somewhere.  Is it the same for you?
Are there any parallels?  Can you even answer this question without making
enemies? <G>

Regards,
Dave White

----- Original Message -----
From: "Raymond Feist" <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <fEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Monday, April 22, 2002 7:00 PM
Subject: Tour


> OK,
>
> I was told today that I'll be leaving San Diego on September 8th and
> returning September 28th.
>
> England and Australia for certain.  Scotland, probably.  Ireland and
> Holland, maybe.  New Zealand and South Africa, probably not because of
> the time frame.
>
> Don't ask me where!  I don't know.
>
> As soon as I know, you'll know.
>
> (Now watch, someone will say, "Well, I know you said not to ask, but do
> you think you might be visiting . . . ")
>
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
>
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
> stupidity.
>
>
>



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 16:24:49 -0600
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: A question about electronic distribution
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Dave White wrote:
> 
> While I would prefer to read paper books, there's a lot to be
> said about having several books within such a small space.

There is that. However, the hand-held devices that contain e-books
aren't exactly cheap.
And much the same that I don't like reading a ton of stuff on my
computer (the amount of e-mail I get a day is even starting to get to
me), I don't see reading books on another electronic device being much
better.

Craig J. Ries



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 16:29:42 -0600
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: My Take on all this
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Wouter Durnez wrote:
> 
> Absolutely John. Raymond's work is his own, and that's all there is to say
> about that. His imagination is his own, and it's not to be copied by
> pathetic fakers.

Pathetic fakers? Laughable.

If you would consider Weird Al Yankovic a "pathetic faker" then you
really are pretty pathetic in your own right. Personally, I think the
man is a genious to have come up with as many parodies as he has, taking
existing songs and working other ideas into lyrics to still fit the same
song.

Doing a parody is not copying something. There is the phrase that goes
something like imitation being flattery. And alot of the best (and some
of the worst) have made for great parodies in music as well (Scary
Movie, for example).

Craig J. Ries



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From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
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Raymond Feist wrote:
> 
> The North American tour will be about a year from now.

Ooh, I beg of you to try and convince the peeps in charge of your tours
to have to visit Denver :)

Craig J. Ries



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Subject: Re: Swashbuckling
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From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
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Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 17:59:48 -0500
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Yes quite well in fact.  But frankly the fighting there is still
idealized rather heavily.

-James

----- Original Message -----
From: "Sylvain Guehl" <fenyxkell@demo.xandmail.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Monday, April 22, 2002 4:59 PM
Subject: Re: Swashbuckling


> > Now, if you want to see what is (IMHO) the most
> > "realistic" sword fighting on film, rent the videos of Ken Russel's The
> > Three/Four Musketeers.
>
> Well, does anyone remember the sword fight between Wesley and
> Montoya in The Princess Bride ? :)))
>
> Syl
>
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From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
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Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 18:04:44 -0500
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He owes us in the Southeast a lot more, he's not been around here in
a long time...longer than the Central IIRC my dates and tours right.
But as Ray will tell you though: he has no control over where his
publisher sends him!

Seriously I would however like a group of us to lobby for him in the
Southeast US before they make plans, so I need a few others
interested in getting him to say, Atlanta, and I will need a phone
number of someone to bug or an e-mail/snailmail for someone to
write.  Any suggestions Ray? John?

IF this works for the SE, we'll drop hints for others to pick
another focal city for lobbying other "neglected" regions.
Preferably ones with easy access to good wines. LOL

-James

----- Original Message -----
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Monday, April 22, 2002 5:30 PM
Subject: Re: Tour


> Raymond Feist wrote:
> >
> > The North American tour will be about a year from now.
>
> Ooh, I beg of you to try and convince the peeps in charge of your tours
> to have to visit Denver :)
>
> Craig J. Ries
>



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Subject: Re: Tour
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 09:37:46 +1000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Volker Stephens" <volker@bigpond.net.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Tour
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 09:37:46 +1000
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Question, How much writing do you get done whilst on tour?
Do you see a tour as a (hectic) holiday from writing, or does
the writing schedule necessitate the usefulness of a laptop?

Volker.

> OK,
> 
> I was told today that I'll be leaving San Diego on September 8th and 
> returning September 28th.
> 
> England and Australia for certain.  Scotland, probably.  Ireland and 
> Holland, maybe.  New Zealand and South Africa, probably not because of 
> the time frame.
> 
> Don't ask me where!  I don't know.
> 
> As soon as I know, you'll know.
> 
> (Now watch, someone will say, "Well, I know you said not to ask, but do 
> you think you might be visiting . . . ")
> 
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
> 
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
> stupidity.
> 



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From: Tim Nicholas <tim@nicholas.net.nz>
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Subject: 20th Anniversary Magician?
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 12:22:37 +1200
From: Tim Nicholas <tim@nicholas.net.nz>
To: Feist List <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: 20th Anniversary Magician?
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Hello all, 

Can someone remind me when the 20th Anniversary Edition of Magician
is comming out? I want to make sure I pester my local book store
enough that they do get the hardback in. 

Tim

-- 
Tim Nicholas                          ||                      Cilix
Email: tim@nicholas.net.nz            ||       Dunedin, New Zealand
http://tim.nicholas.net.nz/           ||  Cell/SMS: +64 21 113 0399
"Grow up, Larry. You give me too much credit." - Linus Torvalds



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Subject: OT:- Re: Swashbuckling
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*** EOOH ***
From: RBlackley@aol.com
Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 20:30:47 EDT
Subject: OT:- Re: Swashbuckling
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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Yeah that was an impressive fight.  But still nearly all fake, if they tried 
to film a real sword fight then you would hardly see anything.  It would be 
way to fast.
Richard

In a message dated 4/22/2002 6:31:22 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
fenyxkell@demo.xandmail.com writes:


> > Now, if you want to see what is (IMHO) the most
> > "realistic" sword fighting on film, rent the videos of Ken Russel's The
> > Three/Four Musketeers.
> 
> Well, does anyone remember the sword fight between Wesley and Montoya in 
> The Princess Bride ? :)))
> 
> Syl


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From: John <john@crydee.com>
Subject: Re: Tour
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 <003b01c1ea46$88176750$570199a8@atinera.com.au>
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*** EOOH ***
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Subject: Re: Tour
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Cameron Duncan <cduncan@atinera.com.au> writes
>>
>He'll probably be the one standing in line with several trolleys full
>of books and 3 or 4 very big security guards standing over them!
>(Sorry John, couldn't resist <BG>)
>
>Cameron
>
>
I just do it the easy way to get around Rays 3 book rule.

Last time I started at the back <G>

I have a plan......... maybe a bookshop to buy :)
-- 
John

john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.

Raymond E Feist Ring
http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 11:51:09 +1000 (GMT+1000)
From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: My Take on all this
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The subject concerning 'parodies of REF's books', I think this is
considered on-topic enough...

You're attitude seems rather selfish.

> I think for myself....I'm not interested in a parody of REF's world, or any
> other type of non-REF lit. about his world.  I remind everybody though,
> before I get flamed or whatever, thats just me.  Some people like it some
> not.  Next topic.  Looking forward to your next book Mr. Feist....
>
> John
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
> http://www.hotmail.com
>
>

Thanks
Darragh
================================================
University of Queensland
Information Technology / Arts (History) student
[Email #1] s356179@student.uq.edu.au
[Email #2] squik@solutionone.com.au
[Web Site] http://hainsworth.ath.cx/~squik/
================================================



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From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Re: Swashbuckling
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 11:52:50 +1000 (GMT+1000)
From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Re: Swashbuckling
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> > Now, if you want to see what is (IMHO) the most
> > "realistic" sword fighting on film, rent the videos of Ken Russel's The
> > Three/Four Musketeers.
> Well, does anyone remember the sword fight between Wesley and Montoya in The Princess Bride ? :)))
> Syl

When I first started fencing, a lot of the students (who did fencing)
cited that scene as the reason why they got into it...

It's brilliant!

Thanks
Darragh
===============================================University of Queensland
Information Technology / Arts (History) student
[Email #1] s356179@student.uq.edu.au
[Email #2] squik@solutionone.com.au
[Web Site] http://hainsworth.ath.cx/~squik/
===============================================


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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 19:00:38 -0700
Subject: Re: Tour
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Monday, April 22, 2002, at 03:19 PM, Dave White wrote:

> I'm curious about that... apart from book signings and promotional 
> events,
> what else happens on a tour?  I'm sure I'll get flamed for this, but I'd
> think that you can hear "Mr. Feist I love your work more than..." only 
> so
> many times before it gets boring, even annoying.  I write software for a
> fairly large and well known online service for a living, and if I had a
> pound (dollar, whatever) for every time someone offered their opinion 
> on my
> work then I could take a nice holiday somewhere.  Is it the same for 
> you?
> Are there any parallels?  Can you even answer this question without 
> making
> enemies? <G>
>
Personal appearances take up a small part of it.  Travel from location 
to location is a big part of it; I can spend three hours in a car for a 
one-hour appearance.  Dinner with publishing types also is a regular 
event, along with lunches with booksellers, chain buyers, etc.

Mostly I see hotels, airports, restaurants, limos, newspaper offices, 
bookstores, the occasional university, and radio stations.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 19:01:23 -0700
Subject: Re: Tour
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Monday, April 22, 2002, at 03:30 PM, Craig J. Ries wrote:

> Raymond Feist wrote:
>>
>> The North American tour will be about a year from now.
>
> Ooh, I beg of you to try and convince the peeps in charge of your tours
> to have to visit Denver :)
>
> Craig J. Ries
>
>
>
>

I was in Denver on the last tour.  I have no control (but you already 
know that and just posted the above to irritate me, didn't you Craig <g>)

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 19:02:25 -0700
Subject: Re: Tour
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Monday, April 22, 2002, at 04:37 PM, Volker Stephens wrote:

> Question, How much writing do you get done whilst on tour?
> Do you see a tour as a (hectic) holiday from writing, or does
> the writing schedule necessitate the usefulness of a laptop?
>

Between 30 and 90 minutes a day, first thing in the morning, when I 
breakfast in the room, IF I don't have to dash to catch a plane.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
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Darragh Murray wrote:

>>>Now, if you want to see what is (IMHO) the most
>>>"realistic" sword fighting on film, rent the videos of Ken Russel's The
>>>Three/Four Musketeers.
>>>
>>Well, does anyone remember the sword fight between Wesley and Montoya in The Princess Bride ? :)))
>>Syl
>>
> 
> When I first started fencing, a lot of the students (who did fencing)
> cited that scene as the reason why they got into it...
> 
> It's brilliant!

What did you fence?  I was <arrgh> a sabre fencer myself.


cd
-- 
Death to all Absolutists!



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 14:47:01 -0700
Subject: Re: ? for ray
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Monday, April 22, 2002, at 01:07 PM, Valheru22@aol.com wrote:

> I have a quetion for Ray; When you first started writing did you find 
> that it was hard to remember like locations, and charaters names?

Not too hard.  Besides, you keep a list and when you come up with a new 
one, you add it to the list.


>
> -Chance
> "We who are truly brave, will never live in fear." -The Rock
>
>
>

We're not quoting bad actors? <g>

People who have no fear are called cannon fodder.  True bravery is being 
scared out of your wits and doing what you have to do, anyway.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.

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*** EOOH ***
From: coweater@alphalink.com.au
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 13:58:41 +1000
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Last time Ray was in Melbourne I had my dad and three friends line up with 
me, each carrying several books to be signed.

Though this year if Ray visits Sydney & Melbourne, most likely since he's 
Australia's number 1 read fantasy writer. I'll make sure I rearranged my 
one business day a month in Syndey to conincide with a booksigning me 
thinks! I new this intersate travel would have some payoff!!!!!

Brad




>John <john@crydee.com>
>Sent by: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>23/04/2002 10:50 AM
>Please respond to FEISTFANS-L
>
> 
>	 To:     FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
>	 cc: 
>	 Subject:        Re: Tour
>
>
>Cameron Duncan <cduncan@atinera.com.au> writes
>>>
>>He'll probably be the one standing in line with several trolleys full
>>of books and 3 or 4 very big security guards standing over them!
>>(Sorry John, couldn't resist <BG>)
>>
>>Cameron
>>
>>
>I just do it the easy way to get around Rays 3 book rule.
>
>Last time I started at the back <G>
>
>I have a plan......... maybe a bookshop to buy :)
>-- 
>John
>
>john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
>http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.
>
>Raymond E Feist Ring
>http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm

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From: "Jeff Weidemann" <jeff@pronto.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Tour
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 14:59:56 +1000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Jeff Weidemann" <jeff@pronto.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Tour
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 14:59:56 +1000
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Question for Ray.

Book signings.  You are 'normally' appear in large book chain stores,
who sell your latest hardcover, for say $39.99AUD. Do you have a problem
signing the same book, purchased new for less, elsewhere?

Jeff W.



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Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 23:03:59 -0600
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Tour
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Raymond Feist wrote:
> 
> I was in Denver on the last tour.  I have no control (but you already
> know that and just posted the above to irritate me, didn't you Craig <g>)

*chuckle* Well, Denver is really the only city I've lived in since I was
a little kid that you find more than one person in a blue moon that
knows where it is.
And I've only been here since the end of last August, so I have to beg
when I can :)

Course, there was that guy working the ticket office at Wrigley Field
who knew that the character of Radar on MASH was from Ottumwa, Iowa...
nobody really wants to remember that that's where Tom Arnold is from
though for some reason :)

Craig J. Ries



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From: "Darragh Murray" <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
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Subject: Re: Swashbuckling
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 15:48:28 +1000
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From: "Darragh Murray" <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
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Subject: Re: Swashbuckling
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 15:48:28 +1000
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> Darragh Murray wrote:
>
> >>>Now, if you want to see what is (IMHO) the most
> >>>"realistic" sword fighting on film, rent the videos of Ken Russel's The
> >>>Three/Four Musketeers.
> >>>
> >>Well, does anyone remember the sword fight between Wesley and Montoya in
> >>The Princess Bride ? :)))
> >>Syl
> >>
> >
> > When I first started fencing, a lot of the students (who did fencing)
> > cited that scene as the reason why they got into it...
> >
> > It's brilliant!
>
> What did you fence?  I was <arrgh> a sabre fencer myself.


I mainly did foil...did that for about 6 months, till uni contrived to keep
me away...

Did some sabre as well, not much, not enough...and i wanted to do some epee,
...but alas...



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Subject: RE: Tour
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*** EOOH ***
From: "A Irving" <s355156@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Tour
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 15:55:03 +1000
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The RRP might be $39.95AUD, but I have never paid that for a book. Even
Honoured Enemy, hardcover, day after it was released I bought brand new
for $29.95.. competition is a good thing for the reader, but maybe not
for ray.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]
> On Behalf Of Jeff Weidemann
> Sent: Tuesday, 23 April 2002 3:00 PM
> To: FEISTFANS-L
> Subject: RE: Tour
> 
> Question for Ray.
> 
> Book signings.  You are 'normally' appear in large book chain stores,
> who sell your latest hardcover, for say $39.99AUD. Do you have a problem
> signing the same book, purchased new for less, elsewhere?
> 
> Jeff W.



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Subject: Re: Swashbuckling
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Julie Wootten" <wootten@xtra.co.nz>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Swashbuckling
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 18:10:34 +1200
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

While many of the moves are flashy and impractical, it is
for the most part based on actual moves and good fighting
theory.  

Seems a lot of people here spent a bit of time fencing at
one time or another.  I did a bit, but then found a medieval
martial arts club and found that much more fun.  (No, not
SCA).  Favourite weapon combo: Sword and dagger or
sword and buckler.  Favourite sparring style:  Helena-style
knife-fighting (off-hands tied together with a length of rope).

Oh, and while I'm emailing .... ::WHINE:: about Ray not
visiting NZ.  I'm going to need a forklift to bring all my
unsigned books in if he stays away many more years.

Julie.

> Yes quite well in fact.  But frankly the fighting there is still
> idealized rather heavily.
> 
> -James
> > Well, does anyone remember the sword fight between Wesley and
> Montoya in The Princess Bride ? :)))
> >
> > Syl





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From: "Justin" <justin.carew@ntlworld.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Tour
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 08:09:40 +0100
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I'm quite new to the tour thing so what
happens at the signings and are you only
allowed three books signed?

Justin
----- Original Message -----
From: "A Irving" <s355156@student.uq.edu.au>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 6:55 AM
Subject: RE: Tour


| The RRP might be $39.95AUD, but I have never paid that for a book. Even
| Honoured Enemy, hardcover, day after it was released I bought brand new
| for $29.95.. competition is a good thing for the reader, but maybe not
| for ray.
|
| > -----Original Message-----
| > From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
| [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]
| > On Behalf Of Jeff Weidemann
| > Sent: Tuesday, 23 April 2002 3:00 PM
| > To: FEISTFANS-L
| > Subject: RE: Tour
| >
| > Question for Ray.
| >
| > Book signings.  You are 'normally' appear in large book chain stores,
| > who sell your latest hardcover, for say $39.99AUD. Do you have a
| problem
| > signing the same book, purchased new for less, elsewhere?
| >
| > Jeff W.
|
|



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Subject: Re: Tour
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From: "Reinhardt Gerber" <Reinhardt@Basix.co.za>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Tour
Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 09:30:36 +0200
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Ray
Have You ever been to South Africa, cause I know there'll be lots of  people
who'd like to meet you.
I know you said propably not this tour because of timeframes, but you must
realy try to visit some time.

Reinhardt



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Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 08:54:47 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: Tour
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Clever.  I'll be in California.

I'm beginning to suspect that my wife has the ear of your publisher.  
These tours keep getting scheduled for where I'm not...even if I'm
normally there.

rip

At 07:00 PM 4/22/02, Raymond Feist wrote:
>OK,
>
>I was told today that I'll be leaving San Diego on September 8th and returning September 28th.
>
>England and Australia for certain.  Scotland, probably.  Ireland and Holland, maybe.  New Zealand and South Africa, probably not because of the time frame.
>
>Don't ask me where!  I don't know.
>
>As soon as I know, you'll know.
>
>(Now watch, someone will say, "Well, I know you said not to ask, but do you think you might be visiting . . . ")
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by stupidity.



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Ray

At what stage do we find out more about Nakor and what he really is (If we
do)?

Does the new series include the development at sorcerers Isle or is that
further down the line in the books?

Just re-read shards again and realised how much is still to come.  Actually
forgot what a good read that book was.
I always had it down as one of my least favourites (g).  My mistake its
only about the 5th time I have read it :-).

I keep going back and reading the whole series again just in case I have
missed any clues.



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From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
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Not sure if this was covered in a previous post - but will it be a
strictly book-signing tour, Ray, or do you expect to do some talks /
discussion/ question time (similiar to you Rage Down Under tour of a
couple of years back)

Thanks
Darragh
================================================
University of Queensland
Information Technology / Arts (History) student
[Email #1] s356179@student.uq.edu.au
[Email #2] squik@solutionone.com.au
[Web Site] http://hainsworth.ath.cx/~squik/
================================================



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At 08:09 AM 4/23/02, Justin wrote:
>I'm quite new to the tour thing so what
>happens at the signings and are you only
>allowed three books signed?

set numberOfUnsignedBooks = {some value}
do {
  Join Queue at back.
  shuffle forward as the queue moves.
  Hand 3 books to Ray with the secret handshake 
    so that he knows you are from the list
  Ray signs the books with "Best <scribble>".
} while numberOfUnsignedBooks > 0

The 'old-timers' as John stated earlier tend to
arrive slightly late and group at the end of the 
line, due to the backlog of unsigned books.  
This way, the people with just the singleton
get their book signed and then go away.  

The rest of us, since there are only a handful, 
can generally bypass the "3 book rule" since the
only people behind us also have a significant
backlog.

Unless Ray is pressed for time, in which case the
3 book rule holds even then. 

rip.  



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*** EOOH ***
From: "Donal K. Fellows" <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Tour
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 09:47:21 +0100
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"Justin" <justin.carew@ntlworld.com>
> I'm quite new to the tour thing so what happens at the signings and
> are you only allowed three books signed?

Well, unless the bookstore owner objects (IIRC, I've heard that that
sometimes happens though it is rare) or Ray is short of time, the way
things work is that you get three books signed and then go to the back
of the queue, work your way forward, get the next three signed, etc.
This isn't as bad as all that though, since most people in the queue
only have one book and the second time through is much quicker.  Once
there's only a few left, all with loads, I don't think they bother
with the three-book rule.  Mind you, the last time I went to a
signing, there was only one person with a huge stack...  (Hi, Rip!)

Donal.
-- 
Donal K. Fellows, Department of Computer Science, University of Manchester, UK.
(work) fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk     Tel: +44-161-275-6137  (preferred email addr.)
(home) donal@ugglan.demon.co.uk  Tel: +44-1274-401017   Mobile: +44-7957-298955
http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~fellowsd/  (Don't quote my .sig; I've seen it before!)



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*** EOOH ***
From: "Donal K. Fellows" <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Tour
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 09:51:25 +0100
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"A Irving" <s355156@student.uq.edu.au>
> The RRP might be $39.95AUD, but I have never paid that for a book. Even
> Honoured Enemy, hardcover, day after it was released I bought brand new
> for $29.95.. competition is a good thing for the reader, but maybe not
> for ray.

I suspect that Ray gets the same amount in both cases; the discount is
probably coming from someone else's cut.  (I would be very surprised
if wholesale book distributors offered wildly different prices to
different customers, especially if both are large buyers.)

Donal.
-- 
Donal K. Fellows, Department of Computer Science, University of Manchester, UK.
(work) fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk     Tel: +44-161-275-6137  (preferred email addr.)
(home) donal@ugglan.demon.co.uk  Tel: +44-1274-401017   Mobile: +44-7957-298955
http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~fellowsd/  (Don't quote my .sig; I've seen it before!)



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 10:29:27 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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At 09:47 AM 4/23/02, Donal K. Fellows wrote:
>signing, there was only one person with a huge stack...  (Hi, Rip!)

And that was because John's car had broken down or something.
Probably the shocks had failed under the added weight of his
library.

rip



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 02:43:21 -0700
Subject: Re: Tour
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
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On Monday, April 22, 2002, at 09:59 PM, Jeff Weidemann wrote:

> Question for Ray.
>
> Book signings.  You are 'normally' appear in large book chain stores,
> who sell your latest hardcover, for say $39.99AUD. Do you have a problem
> signing the same book, purchased new for less, elsewhere?
>

I'll sign anything I wrote.  Sometimes the booksellers get cranky if you 
bring in bunches of stuff you didn't buy there; sometimes they don't.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 02:44:46 -0700
Subject: Re: Tour
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
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On Monday, April 23, 2001, at 12:30 AM, Reinhardt Gerber wrote:

> Ray
> Have You ever been to South Africa, cause I know there'll be lots of  
> people
> who'd like to meet you.
> I know you said propably not this tour because of timeframes, but you 
> must
> realy try to visit some time.
>
> Reinhardt
>
>
>
>

I have nothing to say in the matter.  So my "trying" is zip in terms of 
impact.  It has everything to do with HarperCollins deciding if it's 
cost effective or not.  Flying from San Diego to Cape Town is not a 
short/cheap trip.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 02:45:28 -0700
Subject: Re: Tour
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
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On Tuesday, April 23, 2002, at 01:00 AM, Darragh Murray wrote:

>
> Not sure if this was covered in a previous post - but will it be a
> strictly book-signing tour, Ray, or do you expect to do some talks /
> discussion/ question time (similiar to you Rage Down Under tour of a
> couple of years back)
>
I got NO idea what they schedule me for.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 02:47:03 -0700
Subject: Re: Future
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
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On Tuesday, April 23, 2002, at 12:57 AM, 
richard.smith@pharma.novartis.com wrote:

>
> Ray
>
> At what stage do we find out more about Nakor and what he really is (If 
> we
> do)?

When I bloody well feel like telling you! (Or when he feels like telling 
me, is more like it)

>
> Does the new series include the development at sorcerers Isle or is that
> further down the line in the books?

"Developments?"  What developments?  Did Pug sub-divide the bloody 
island and start building condos and time-shares?  Damn.  Those guys 
never tell me anything.

>
> Just re-read shards again and realised how much is still to come.  
> Actually
> forgot what a good read that book was.
> I always had it down as one of my least favourites (g).  My mistake its
> only about the 5th time I have read it :-).
>
> I keep going back and reading the whole series again just in case I have
> missed any clues.
>
>
>
>

If you find any, let me know. <g>

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Ray, have you ever been to Denmark?

David

_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 11:04:26 +0100
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At 10:47 AM 4/23/02, Raymond Feist wrote:
>"Developments?"  What developments?  Did Pug sub-divide the bloody 
>island and start building condos and time-shares?  Damn.  Those 
>guys never tell me anything.

It was the theme park that caught /me/ by surprise, Ray.

rip



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*** EOOH ***
From: "Donal K. Fellows" <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Future
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 11:15:37 +0100
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Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
> At 10:47 AM 4/23/02, Raymond Feist wrote:
>> "Developments?"  What developments?  Did Pug sub-divide the bloody 
>> island and start building condos and time-shares?  Damn.  Those 
>> guys never tell me anything.
> 
> It was the theme park that caught /me/ by surprise, Ray.

Well, what else can you do with a former gas-works site?

Donal.
-- 
Donal K. Fellows, Department of Computer Science, University of Manchester, UK.
(work) fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk     Tel: +44-161-275-6137  (preferred email addr.)
(home) donal@ugglan.demon.co.uk  Tel: +44-1274-401017   Mobile: +44-7957-298955
http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~fellowsd/  (Don't quote my .sig; I've seen it before!)



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Hullo


From: "Richard Williamson" <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
> At 10:47 AM 4/23/02, Raymond Feist wrote:
> >"Developments?"  What developments?  Did Pug sub-divide the bloody
> >island and start building condos and time-shares?  Damn.  Those
> >guys never tell me anything.
>
> It was the theme park that caught /me/ by surprise, Ray.

'Riftworld' would be interesting - but I think Macros' lawyers would step on
that one in a second.

Regards,

Alex Loke
nerf@alphalink.com.au

<INSERT WITTY LINE HERE>



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Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 18:35:37 +0800
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From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Future
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 18:35:37 +0800
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I couldn't believe there was a McDonalds. Is there anywhere you can't
find one of those? :)

David

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu 
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Richard Williamson
> Sent: Tuesday, 23 April 2002 6:04 PM
> To: FEISTFANS-L
> Subject: Re: Future
> 
> 
> At 10:47 AM 4/23/02, Raymond Feist wrote:
> >"Developments?"  What developments?  Did Pug sub-divide the bloody 
> >island and start building condos and time-shares?  Damn.  Those 
> >guys never tell me anything.
> 
> It was the theme park that caught /me/ by surprise, Ray.
> 
> rip
> 



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From: "Reinhardt Gerber" <Reinhardt@Basix.co.za>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
References: <8C6083F0-569E-11D6-88F2-003065A8A644@bittersea.com>
Subject: Re: Tour
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 12:47:05 +0200
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From: "Reinhardt Gerber" <Reinhardt@Basix.co.za>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Tour
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 12:47:05 +0200
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> I'll sign anything I wrote.  

Has anybody asked you to sign soething you didn't write? <g>

> Sometimes the booksellers get cranky if you 
> bring in bunches of stuff you didn't buy there; sometimes they don't.
> 
> Best, R.E.F.


Reinhardt



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From: "Wouter Durnez" <arutha_of_krondor@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re: My Take on all this
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 10:42:55 +0000
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From: "Wouter Durnez" <arutha_of_krondor@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: My Take on all this
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 10:42:55 +0000
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Owkey, maybe Weird Al is an exception, but mostly people that write parodies 
screw up the whole point. Yes, there are a great deal of good parodies. But 
there are still more writings that mutilate the original work. Well, at 
least that's my idea.


>From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
>Subject: Re: My Take on all this
>Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 16:29:42 -0600
>
>Wouter Durnez wrote:
> >
> > Absolutely John. Raymond's work is his own, and that's all there is to 
>say
> > about that. His imagination is his own, and it's not to be copied by
> > pathetic fakers.
>
>Pathetic fakers? Laughable.
>
>If you would consider Weird Al Yankovic a "pathetic faker" then you
>really are pretty pathetic in your own right. Personally, I think the
>man is a genious to have come up with as many parodies as he has, taking
>existing songs and working other ideas into lyrics to still fit the same
>song.
>
>Doing a parody is not copying something. There is the phrase that goes
>something like imitation being flattery. And alot of the best (and some
>of the worst) have made for great parodies in music as well (Scary
>Movie, for example).
>
>Craig J. Ries
>




_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.



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From: "Stuart Maher" <stuart.maher@ntlworld.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Future
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 11:52:41 +0100
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Stuart Maher" <stuart.maher@ntlworld.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Future
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 11:52:41 +0100
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Actually I heard it was Roo's latest scam. By investing in off shore
developments he could pass the money through the books tax free and he gets
a time share buisness off the back of it.

One of those days

Stu

-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Raymond Feist
>Sent: 23 April 2002 10:47
>To: FEISTFANS-L
>Subject: Re: Future
>
>
>
>>
>> Does the new series include the development at sorcerers Isle or is that
>> further down the line in the books?
>
>"Developments?"  What developments?  Did Pug sub-divide the bloody
>island and start building condos and time-shares?  Damn.  Those guys
>never tell me anything.
>


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Subject: RE: Future
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Stuart Maher" <stuart.maher@ntlworld.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Future
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 11:54:55 +0100
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Macros has a lot of shares in the venture. Thats why he ensured that when
PUG found the place there was a villa from the spanish riveria there!!

Stu

-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Alex Loke
>Sent: 23 April 2002 11:31
>To: FEISTFANS-L
>Subject: Re: Future
>
>
>Hullo
>
>
>From: "Richard Williamson" <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
>> At 10:47 AM 4/23/02, Raymond Feist wrote:
>> >"Developments?"  What developments?  Did Pug sub-divide the bloody
>> >island and start building condos and time-shares?  Damn.  Those
>> >guys never tell me anything.
>>
>> It was the theme park that caught /me/ by surprise, Ray.
>
>'Riftworld' would be interesting - but I think Macros' lawyers would step on
>that one in a second.
>
>Regards,
>
>Alex Loke
>nerf@alphalink.com.au
>
><INSERT WITTY LINE HERE>
>


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Subject: Re: Tour
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*** EOOH ***
From: RBlackley@aol.com
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 06:58:21 EDT
Subject: Re: Tour
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

"I would wager a year's taxes that" your correct
Richard

In a message dated 4/22/2002 10:13:10 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
raymond@bittersea.com writes:


> 
> 
> 
> On Monday, April 22, 2002, at 03:30 PM, Craig J. Ries wrote:
> 
> > Raymond Feist wrote:
> >>
> >> The North American tour will be about a year from now.
> >
> > Ooh, I beg of you to try and convince the peeps in charge of your tours
> > to have to visit Denver :)
> >
> > Craig J. Ries
> >
> >
> >
> >
> 
> I was in Denver on the last tour.  I have no control (but you already 
> know that and just posted the above to irritate me, didn't you Craig <g>)
> 
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
> 
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
> stupidity.
> 


-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
"Wit is cultured insolence"
                         Aristotle
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Subject: Re: Tour
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 12:14:45 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: Tour
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At 11:47 AM 4/23/02, Reinhardt Gerber wrote:
>> I'll sign anything I wrote.  
>
>Has anybody asked you to sign soething you didn't write? <g>

There is a particularly horrible brand of Sekt (German sparkling
wine) called 'Feist-Sekt'.  I brought along a bottle of that
and he signed it.

rip



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From: "Reinhardt Gerber" <Reinhardt@Basix.co.za>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
References: <8C6083F0-569E-11D6-88F2-003065A8A644@bittersea.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20020423121330.02652cc0@mail.swindon.wrsec.fr>
Subject: Re: Tour
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Reinhardt Gerber" <Reinhardt@Basix.co.za>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Tour
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 13:25:24 +0200
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

> At 11:47 AM 4/23/02, Reinhardt Gerber wrote:
> >> I'll sign anything I wrote.
> >
> >Has anybody asked you to sign soething you didn't write? <g>
>
> There is a particularly horrible brand of Sekt (German sparkling
> wine) called 'Feist-Sekt'.  I brought along a bottle of that
> and he signed it.
>
> rip
>

if I name my son Raymond and bring him along , you think he will sign his
forehead :)

Reinhardt



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From: "Michelle Thomson" <chell_40@hotmail.com>
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Subject: RE: Future
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>From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>

>>I couldn't believe there was a McDonalds. Is there anywhere you can't
>find one of those? :)
>

Ummm, Browns Bay, Auckland, New Zealand.  We were graced with the first 
McD's ever to close down.  Then the had the great idea of reopening it only 
to have to close it again.  Quite embarassing I'm sure.  Needless to say 
there is no McDonalds there still.

(Interestingly I think Auckland has the highest number of McDonald's 
closures with at least 3.  Also the first ever self-serve McDonald's at 
Auckland University of Technology (instead of a cafeteria))


>David
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Richard Williamson
> > Sent: Tuesday, 23 April 2002 6:04 PM
> > To: FEISTFANS-L
> > Subject: Re: Future
> >
> >
> > At 10:47 AM 4/23/02, Raymond Feist wrote:
> > >"Developments?"  What developments?  Did Pug sub-divide the bloody
> > >island and start building condos and time-shares?  Damn.  Those
> > >guys never tell me anything.
> >
> > It was the theme park that caught /me/ by surprise, Ray.
> >
> > rip
> >
>




_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com



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From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: Tour
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 13:20:30 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: Tour
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

At 12:25 PM 4/23/02, Reinhardt Gerber wrote:
>> At 11:47 AM 4/23/02, Reinhardt Gerber wrote:
>> >> I'll sign anything I wrote.
>> >
>> >Has anybody asked you to sign soething you didn't write? <g>
>>
>> There is a particularly horrible brand of Sekt (German sparkling
>> wine) called 'Feist-Sekt'.  I brought along a bottle of that
>> and he signed it.
>>
>> rip
>>
>
>if I name my son Raymond and bring him along , you think he will sign his
>forehead :)

Actually, for that tour his exact words were "If it has my name on
it, I'll sign it...".  So under that guideline, you could name your
son whatever you wanted.  Just write "Raymond Feist" on his forehead
yourself.  Then Ray would be honor-bound to sign underneath.

Oh.  Hi, Ray.  Didn't see you standing there.  

rip



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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Larry Siegel <larry@psihawk.com>
Subject: Re: Tour
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 09:28:02 -0400
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Larry Siegel <larry@psihawk.com>
Subject: Re: Tour
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Hey Ray....

I've been on the list for a while now... *boggles that statement*
And can't seem to recall if we've ever discussed a "feistfans-l"
gathering of sorts...

Basically just for members of the list, and more of a personal
gathering then just a show up sign and leave type thing....

Is that something that would interest you in showing up to...
Like a dinner or something... or is that strictly not something we
can/should discuss here.

Just think... we pay like $100 a piece or something... which should cover all
of the food... your expenses..

Anyway... just a thought

Larry

My Homepage
http://www.psihawk.com

Raymond E. Feist FAQ
http://www.psihawk.com/feist



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Subject: Re: Tour
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Reinhardt Gerber" <Reinhardt@Basix.co.za>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Tour
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 15:34:12 +0200
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

> Hey Ray....
>
> I've been on the list for a while now... *boggles that statement*
> And can't seem to recall if we've ever discussed a "feistfans-l"
> gathering of sorts...
>
> Basically just for members of the list, and more of a personal
> gathering then just a show up sign and leave type thing....
>
> Is that something that would interest you in showing up to...
> Like a dinner or something... or is that strictly not something we
> can/should discuss here.
>
> Just think... we pay like $100 a piece or something... which should cover all
> of the food... your expenses..
>
> Anyway... just a thought
>
> Larry

Briliant Idea!!!
Would that $100 cover my plain ticket too?

Reinhardt
SOUTH AFRICA

ps. just kidding



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Subject: Tours
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 08:49:13 -0500
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REF,

As you've previously stated, your publishers control where and when you go 
on tour.  What's the best way for us to work on bringing the tour near us?  
Through our local booksellers (larger chains the better?) or by contacting 
the publishers directly?  Thanks.

Andy Holcombe
Andy_wan_Kenobi@hotmail.com

"To err is human, but to really foul things up requires a computer."
     -Farmers' Almanac 1978

"I don't give a damn for a man who can only spell a word one way."
     -Mark Twain

"History will be kind to me, for I intend to write it."
     -Winston Churchill

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 16:32:21 +0200
From: Caranorn Aglaredhel <caranorn@cmdnet.lu>
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Organization: House Phoenix
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; fr-FR; rv:0.9.4) Gecko/20011130 Netscape6/6.2.1
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Tours
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I expect if you order a truckload of Ray's books before the next tour 
that might improve your chances, possibly even give you a private 
entrevue;-)

Marc aka Caran...

Andy Holcombe wrote:

> REF,
>
> As you've previously stated, your publishers control where and when 
> you go on tour.  What's the best way for us to work on bringing the 
> tour near us?  Through our local booksellers (larger chains the 
> better?) or by contacting the publishers directly?  Thanks.
>
> Andy Holcombe
> Andy_wan_Kenobi@hotmail.com
>
> "To err is human, but to really foul things up requires a computer."
>     -Farmers' Almanac 1978
>
> "I don't give a damn for a man who can only spell a word one way."
>     -Mark Twain
>
> "History will be kind to me, for I intend to write it."
>     -Winston Churchill
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at 
> http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.
>
>



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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Tour
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*** EOOH ***
From: coweater@alphalink.com.au
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Tour
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 00:26:24 +1000
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

"Dinner with Ray" or something like that, would be worth the moeny i'm 
sure.

Brad




>Larry Siegel <larry@psihawk.com>
>Sent by: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>23/04/2002 11:28 PM
>Please respond to FEISTFANS-L
>
> 
>	 To:     FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
>	 cc: 
>	 Subject:        Re: Tour
>
>
>Hey Ray....
>
>I've been on the list for a while now... *boggles that statement*
>And can't seem to recall if we've ever discussed a "feistfans-l"
>gathering of sorts...
>
>Basically just for members of the list, and more of a personal
>gathering then just a show up sign and leave type thing....
>
>Is that something that would interest you in showing up to...
>Like a dinner or something... or is that strictly not something we
>can/should discuss here.
>
>Just think... we pay like $100 a piece or something... which should cover 
>all
>of the food... your expenses..
>
>Anyway... just a thought
>
>Larry
>
>My Homepage
>http://www.psihawk.com
>
>Raymond E. Feist FAQ
>http://www.psihawk.com/feist

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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 08:13:13 -0700
Subject: Re: Tour
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Tuesday, April 23, 2002, at 02:59 AM, David Christensen wrote:

> Ray, have you ever been to Denmark?
>

No.  US, Canada, England, Scotland, Ireland, France, Germany, Holland, 
Australia, and New Zealand.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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References: <D7677B84-561A-11D6-9A67-003065A8A644@bittersea.com>
Subject: Re: Tour
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James E.Roberts" <jroberts6@vtown.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Tour
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 01:14:20 +1000
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This is great to hear! I missed out on meeting you the last time you where
here in Australia and I look forward to catching up with you this time
around. I might even bring you one of the Mornington Peninsula's fine wines
(however i dont know much about wines so i may end up bringing you
horse-piss, but you never know i might get lucky =P).

Jamie

----- Original Message -----
From: "Raymond Feist" <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <fEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 4:00 AM
Subject: Tour


> OK,
>
> I was told today that I'll be leaving San Diego on September 8th and
> returning September 28th.
>
> England and Australia for certain.  Scotland, probably.  Ireland and
> Holland, maybe.  New Zealand and South Africa, probably not because of
> the time frame.
>
> Don't ask me where!  I don't know.
>
> As soon as I know, you'll know.
>
> (Now watch, someone will say, "Well, I know you said not to ask, but do
> you think you might be visiting . . . ")
>
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
>
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
> stupidity.
>



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 08:18:26 -0700
Subject: Re: Tour
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Tuesday, April 23, 2002, at 06:28 AM, Larry Siegel wrote:

> Hey Ray....
>
> I've been on the list for a while now... *boggles that statement*
> And can't seem to recall if we've ever discussed a "feistfans-l"
> gathering of sorts...
>
> Basically just for members of the list, and more of a personal
> gathering then just a show up sign and leave type thing....
>
> Is that something that would interest you in showing up to...
> Like a dinner or something... or is that strictly not something we
> can/should discuss here.
>
> Just think... we pay like $100 a piece or something... which should 
> cover all
> of the food... your expenses..
>
> Anyway... just a thought
>

My expenses are never an issue; the publisher is paying for everything 
while I'm on tour.

I have, upon rare occasions, snuck off for a drink with some folks from 
the list.  Happened once in King of Prussia, PA, once in Palo Alto, CA, 
and once in Sydney.  But time is the usual culprit.  Hell, I once had a 
stunning blonde in Perth ask me home for dinner,and I had to decline (of 
course, I was married at the time . . . ).

Sometimes folks gather before a signing to hang out together, but that's 
up to them.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 08:14:30 -0700
Subject: Re: Tour
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On Tuesday, April 23, 2002, at 03:47 AM, Reinhardt Gerber wrote:

>> I'll sign anything I wrote.
>
> Has anybody asked you to sign soething you didn't write? <g>

Yup.  Some joker will be in the store who didn't know I was there and 
will have just bought something.  It's happened a half-dozen times or so.

>
Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 08:18:51 -0700
Subject: Re: Tours
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Tuesday, April 23, 2002, at 06:49 AM, Andy Holcombe wrote:

> REF,
>
> As you've previously stated, your publishers control where and when you 
> go on tour.  What's the best way for us to work on bringing the tour 
> near us?  Through our local booksellers (larger chains the better?) or 
> by contacting the publishers directly?  Thanks.
>

Bookseller.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 08:21:14 -0700
Subject: Raybegone
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: fEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I'm off to Las Vegas, where a girl friend of mine is competing in the 
Showgirl Extravaganza tomorrow night.  She's ask me to be there to lend 
support and cheer loudly, which I will do, because not only is she one 
of the most beautiful young women it has been my pleasure to have known, 
she's a Scicilian-American from Linderhurst, Long Island, so if I don't 
she'll hurt me.  For those who have no idea what kind of personality I'm 
talking about, rend a copy of the 1st season of the Sopranos.

Back in 48 hours.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 08:30:23 -0700
Subject: Re: Tour
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Tuesday, April 23, 2002, at 08:14 AM, James E.Roberts wrote:

> This is great to hear! I missed out on meeting you the last time you 
> where
> here in Australia and I look forward to catching up with you this time
> around. I might even bring you one of the Mornington Peninsula's fine 
> wines
> (however i dont know much about wines so i may end up bringing you
> horse-piss, but you never know i might get lucky =P).
>
Thanks for the offer, but please don't.

The problem with gifts is I have to lug them around from place to place, 
and when you're on a five country tour . . .!

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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From: "Wouter Durnez" <arutha_of_krondor@hotmail.com>
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*** EOOH ***
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From: "Wouter Durnez" <arutha_of_krondor@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 15:35:56 +0000
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Hey mister Feist, you definitely have to visit Belgium some time. It's a 
great country, with plenty of Feist-fans. And the Belgian fries, well, 
they're just super :-)


>From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
>Subject: Re: Tour
>Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 08:13:13 -0700
>
>
>On Tuesday, April 23, 2002, at 02:59 AM, David Christensen wrote:
>
>>Ray, have you ever been to Denmark?
>>
>
>No.  US, Canada, England, Scotland, Ireland, France, Germany, Holland,
>Australia, and New Zealand.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
>stupidity.
>




_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com



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From: "Iain" <iainp@btinternet.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Leather Magician
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 17:01:11 +0100
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Iain" <iainp@btinternet.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Leather Magician
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 17:01:11 +0100
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Hi all.

I have seen a copy of Magician (Masterpieces of fantasy Easton Press
Edition) but the seller is looking for quite a lot of money for it.  As far
as I can tell it is on new condition and is signed by Ray.  Does anybody
have any idea how much it is worth?

Full details.
Premium Leather
Distinctive cover design
Hubbed spine, accented in real 22KT gold
Satin ribbon page marker
Gilded page edges
Long-lasting, high quality acid-neutral paper
Smyth-sewn pages for strength and durability
Beautiful illustrations


Thanks,
Iain.



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 09:12:45 -0700
Subject: Re: Tour
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On Tuesday, April 23, 2002, at 08:35 AM, Wouter Durnez wrote:

> Hey mister Feist, you definitely have to visit Belgium some time. It's 
> a great country, with plenty of Feist-fans. And the Belgian fries, 
> well, they're just super :-)
>

Made it to Einhoven in Holland last time around; quite a lot of folks 
from Belgium came up for that one.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 09:51:08 -0700 (PDT)
From: Nathan <nathan@irish4ever.com>
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--- "Iain" <iainp@btinternet.com> wrote:
>I have seen a copy of Magician (Masterpieces of fantasy Easton Press
>Edition) but the seller is looking for quite a lot of money for it.  As far
>as I can tell it is on new condition and is signed by Ray.  Does anybody
>have any idea how much it is worth?


Where is this edition available? I'd buy it even without Mr. Feist's
autograph - it would be less expensive item.

>Full details.
>Premium Leather
>Distinctive cover design
>Hubbed spine, accented in real 22KT gold
>Satin ribbon page marker
>Gilded page edges
>Long-lasting, high quality acid-neutral paper
>Smyth-sewn pages for strength and durability
>Beautiful illustrations

Sounds excellent. Can you tell something about illustrations?

Regards, 
Father Nathan


_____________________________________________________________
Get your Free, Permanent, and Private Irish Email Today!
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From: "Justin" <justin.carew@ntlworld.com>
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Subject: secret handshake
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 18:04:18 +0100
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Justin" <justin.carew@ntlworld.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: secret handshake
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 18:04:18 +0100
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is there really a secret handshake or
were you just joking richard? if there
isn't I think there should be or
something to let Ray know we're on the
list. But it could be a lot easier if we
just said "hi, i'm on the list!"

Just an idea and question from Justin



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From: "Wouter Durnez" <arutha_of_krondor@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Metal
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 17:06:12 +0000
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*** EOOH ***
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From: "Wouter Durnez" <arutha_of_krondor@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Metal
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Mr. Feist, what sort of music do you like? It's generally known (well, I 
think it is,) that a lot of metal-lovers also like fantasy. A lot of my 
friends really adore your books, and they believe that metal fits 'em 
perfectly. The group called 'Blind Guardian', for instance, got very close 
to making a song about the Riftwar Saga. What is your opinion on that 
subject? Thanks.

_________________________________________________________________
Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
http://www.hotmail.com



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From: John <john@crydee.com>
Subject: Re: Leather Magician
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 17:55:30 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: John <john@crydee.com>
Subject: Re: Leather Magician
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Iain <iainp@btinternet.com> writes
>Hi all.
>
>I have seen a copy of Magician (Masterpieces of fantasy Easton Press
>Edition) but the seller is looking for quite a lot of money for it.  As far
>as I can tell it is on new condition and is signed by Ray.
Read it again, it is NOT signed by Ray if it is the one I am thinking of
> Does anybody
>have any idea how much it is worth?
>
>Full details.
>Premium Leather
>Distinctive cover design
>Hubbed spine, accented in real 22KT gold
>Satin ribbon page marker
>Gilded page edges
>Long-lasting, high quality acid-neutral paper
>Smyth-sewn pages for strength and durability
>Beautiful illustrations
>
>
>Thanks,
>Iain.
>
>

-- 
John

john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.

Raymond E Feist Ring
http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm



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From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
References: <3CC48F19.C25E90BB@yifan.net> <5.1.0.14.0.20020423092404.00a827f0@mail.optonline.net>
Subject: Re: Tour
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 13:13:15 -0500
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Tour
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 13:13:15 -0500
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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    I think we'd be better off doing that regionally...partially
because of the expenses of getting us together, and the fact that
500+ of us might be a bit much for any place to handle short of a
(re: expensive) convention center.  I do think it might be a
distinct possibility if people are willing to put in a little time
and effort to bug each other over a bottle of scotch.
    Besides if we are organized we stand a better chance to get Ray
to come visit when we write the publishers and bug booksellers than
if we do it individually.  Money talks in that business and even 50
to 100 definite buyers are a big plus to any business.

-James

----- Original Message -----

> Hey Ray....
>
> I've been on the list for a while now... *boggles that statement*
> And can't seem to recall if we've ever discussed a "feistfans-l"
> gathering of sorts...
>
> Basically just for members of the list, and more of a personal
> gathering then just a show up sign and leave type thing....
>
> Is that something that would interest you in showing up to...
> Like a dinner or something... or is that strictly not something we
> can/should discuss here.
>
> Just think... we pay like $100 a piece or something... which should cover all
> of the food... your expenses..
>
> Anyway... just a thought
>
> Larry
>
> My Homepage
> http://www.psihawk.com
>
> Raymond E. Feist FAQ
> http://www.psihawk.com/feist
>



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From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Tour
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 02:21:12 +0800
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*** EOOH ***
From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Tour
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 02:21:12 +0800
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

So who is in on the Perth, WA (Western Australia) contingent then?

David

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu 
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of James Young
> Sent: Wednesday, 24 April 2002 2:13 AM
> To: FEISTFANS-L
> Subject: Re: Tour
> 
> 
>     I think we'd be better off doing that regionally...partially
> because of the expenses of getting us together, and the fact that
> 500+ of us might be a bit much for any place to handle short of a
> (re: expensive) convention center.  I do think it might be a
> distinct possibility if people are willing to put in a little time
> and effort to bug each other over a bottle of scotch.
>     Besides if we are organized we stand a better chance to get Ray
> to come visit when we write the publishers and bug booksellers than
> if we do it individually.  Money talks in that business and even 50
> to 100 definite buyers are a big plus to any business.
> 
> -James
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> 
> > Hey Ray....
> >
> > I've been on the list for a while now... *boggles that statement*
> > And can't seem to recall if we've ever discussed a "feistfans-l"
> > gathering of sorts...
> >
> > Basically just for members of the list, and more of a personal
> > gathering then just a show up sign and leave type thing....
> >
> > Is that something that would interest you in showing up to...
> > Like a dinner or something... or is that strictly not something we
> > can/should discuss here.
> >
> > Just think... we pay like $100 a piece or something... which
> should cover all
> > of the food... your expenses..
> >
> > Anyway... just a thought
> >
> > Larry
> >
> > My Homepage
> > http://www.psihawk.com
> >
> > Raymond E. Feist FAQ
> > http://www.psihawk.com/feist
> >
> 



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Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 15:22:32 EDT
Subject: Re: ? for ray
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*** EOOH ***
From: Valheru22@aol.com
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 15:22:32 EDT
Subject: Re: ? for ray
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

In a message dated 4/22/2002 8:51:55 PM Pacific Standard Time, 
raymond@bittersea.com writes:


> > I have a quetion for Ray; When you first started writing did you find 
> > that it was hard to remember like locations, and charaters names?
> 
> Not too hard.  Besides, you keep a list and when you come up with a new 
> one, you add it to the list.
> 
> 
> >
> > -Chance
> > "We who are truly brave, will never live in fear." -The Rock
> >
> >
> >
> 
> We're not quoting bad actors? <g>
> 
> People who have no fear are called cannon fodder.  True bravery is being 
> scared out of your wits and doing what you have to do, anyway.
> 
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
> 
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
> stupidity.
> 
> 
> 

lol. Let me guess you saw the scorpion king? He wasn't that bad of an actor, 
well at least in my opinion. lol. 
 -Chance
"We who are truly brave, will never live in fear." -The Rock

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Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 19:48:46 +0100
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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Grandad Rufus <rufo@bigwig.net>
Subject: Re: Tour
References: <8C6083F0-569E-11D6-88F2-003065A8A644@bittersea.com>
 <004c01c1eab4$366c61d0$6e03a8c0@edge>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 19:48:46 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Grandad Rufus <rufo@bigwig.net>
Subject: Re: Tour
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

In article <004c01c1eab4$366c61d0$6e03a8c0@edge>, Reinhardt Gerber
<Reinhardt@Basix.co.za> writes
>> I'll sign anything I wrote.  
>
>Has anybody asked you to sign soething you didn't write? <g>
>
>> Sometimes the booksellers get cranky if you 
>> bring in bunches of stuff you didn't buy there; sometimes they don't.
>> 
>> Best, R.E.F.
>

I asked Ray to sign an email he sent me. It now has pride of place in my
collection.

>
>Reinhardt
>

-- 
*******
Grandad Rufus.

It's not that I have a dirty mind, you understand.
It's just that so many of my thoughts leave muddy little footprints...



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From: "Steven McCarthy" <steven@connect.ie>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Tour
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 23:22:12 +0100
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Steven McCarthy" <steven@connect.ie>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Tour
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 23:22:12 +0100
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Nearly forgot about Hodges and Figgis - I know Waterstones own them now but
they're fairly autonomous afaik.


Steve
One of The Collective
http://learn.at/ahh
"Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then
do it." -- Lazarus Long

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Steven McCarthy
> Sent: 23 April 2002 23:20
> To: FEISTFANS-L
> Subject: RE: Tour
>
>
> Great news - kind of. Ireland is only a maybe.
>
> Attention Irish members - I know there are a few. I'm going to be
> getting in
> touch with Waterstones, Easons and Forbidden Planet in Dublin tomorrow to
> get them to push for a signing. The more interest there is the better the
> chances and I've got a full collection of first eds that I want
> signed :-) I
> suggest that all Irish do the same.
>
> No offense to the country folk but Dublin's the best chance - I
> don't think
> the sales are the same outside the Pale.
>
>
> Steve
> One of The Collective
> http://learn.at/ahh
> "Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done
> and why. Then
> do it." -- Lazarus Long
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Raymond Feist
> > Sent: 22 April 2002 19:01
> > To: FEISTFANS-L
> > Subject: Tour
> >
> >
> > OK,
> >
> > I was told today that I'll be leaving San Diego on September 8th and
> > returning September 28th.
> >
> > England and Australia for certain.  Scotland, probably.  Ireland and
> > Holland, maybe.  New Zealand and South Africa, probably not because of
> > the time frame.
> >
> > Don't ask me where!  I don't know.
> >
> > As soon as I know, you'll know.
> >
> > (Now watch, someone will say, "Well, I know you said not to ask, but do
> > you think you might be visiting . . . ")
> >
> > Best, R.E.F.
> > ----
> >
> > Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
> > stupidity.
> >
> >
> >
>



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From: "Steven McCarthy" <steven@connect.ie>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Tour
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Steven McCarthy" <steven@connect.ie>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Tour
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 23:19:33 +0100
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Great news - kind of. Ireland is only a maybe.

Attention Irish members - I know there are a few. I'm going to be getting in
touch with Waterstones, Easons and Forbidden Planet in Dublin tomorrow to
get them to push for a signing. The more interest there is the better the
chances and I've got a full collection of first eds that I want signed :-) I
suggest that all Irish do the same.

No offense to the country folk but Dublin's the best chance - I don't think
the sales are the same outside the Pale.


Steve
One of The Collective
http://learn.at/ahh
"Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then
do it." -- Lazarus Long

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Raymond Feist
> Sent: 22 April 2002 19:01
> To: FEISTFANS-L
> Subject: Tour
>
>
> OK,
>
> I was told today that I'll be leaving San Diego on September 8th and
> returning September 28th.
>
> England and Australia for certain.  Scotland, probably.  Ireland and
> Holland, maybe.  New Zealand and South Africa, probably not because of
> the time frame.
>
> Don't ask me where!  I don't know.
>
> As soon as I know, you'll know.
>
> (Now watch, someone will say, "Well, I know you said not to ask, but do
> you think you might be visiting . . . ")
>
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
>
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
> stupidity.
>
>
>

1,,
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From: "Terri Lyn Layman" <terrilyn@fullnet.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Tour
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 17:26:08 -0500
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Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: "Terri Lyn Layman" <terrilyn@fullnet.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Tour
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 17:26:08 -0500
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Raymond Feist
> On Tuesday, April 23, 2002, at 08:14 AM, James E.Roberts wrote:
>
> > This is great to hear! I missed out on meeting you the last
> time you
> > where
> > here in Australia and I look forward to catching up with
> you this time
> > around. I might even bring you one of the Mornington
> Peninsula's fine
> > wines
> > (however i dont know much about wines so i may end up bringing you
> > horse-piss, but you never know i might get lucky =P).
> >
> Thanks for the offer, but please don't.
>
> The problem with gifts is I have to lug them around from
> place to place,
> and when you're on a five country tour . . .!
>
> Best, R.E.F.

Yeah, but for a wine... check with room service, get a opener and a glass
and bucket of ice.

You can have that "quite portable" in a few hours time!  And heck, depending
on how long you're there, it could quite easily be gone as well.  :)

*giggle*

-TerriLyn (whose been known to kill a bottle in a lazy afternoon)



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From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Tour
In-Reply-To: <5C06F7FE-56CD-11D6-8DB1-003065A8A644@bittersea.com>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 08:49:12 +1000 (GMT+1000)
From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Tour
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

> > Hey Ray....
> > I've been on the list for a while now... *boggles that statement*
> > And can't seem to recall if we've ever discussed a "feistfans-l"
> > gathering of sorts...
> > Basically just for members of the list, and more of a personal
> > gathering then just a show up sign and leave type thing....
> > Is that something that would interest you in showing up to...
> > Like a dinner or something... or is that strictly not something we
> > can/should discuss here.
> > Just think... we pay like $100 a piece or something... which should
> > cover all
> > of the food... your expenses..
> > Anyway... just a thought
> My expenses are never an issue; the publisher is paying for everything
> while I'm on tour.
> I have, upon rare occasions, snuck off for a drink with some folks from
> the list.  Happened once in King of Prussia, PA, once in Palo Alto, CA,
> and once in Sydney.  But time is the usual culprit.  Hell, I once had a
> stunning blonde in Perth ask me home for dinner,and I had to decline (of
> course, I was married at the time . . . ).
> Sometimes folks gather before a signing to hang out together, but that's
> up to them.
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
> stupidity.

Heh. When you come to Brisbane (AUS), I might be able to scramble up some
'feistfans', and take you on a tour of the local establishments *g*

Tell me Ray, have you ever had the pleasure of doing a book signing, drunk
*g*

Thanks
Darragh
================================================
University of Queensland
Information Technology / Arts (History) student
[Email #1] s356179@student.uq.edu.au
[Email #2] squik@solutionone.com.au
[Web Site] http://hainsworth.ath.cx/~squik/
================================================



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Subject: Re: Swashbuckling
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 07:55:15 -0500
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From: "Dennis Groome" <nallix@cox.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Swashbuckling
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 07:55:15 -0500
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-Dennis H. Groome V
ICQ: 11430261 AIM/Yahoo: AmoNympham
Microsoft Messenger: marcus_giovani@hotmail.com


----- Original Message -----
From: "Carl Dershem" <dershem@cox.net>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Monday, April 22, 2002 10:02 PM
Subject: Re: Swashbuckling


> Darragh Murray wrote:
>
> >>>Now, if you want to see what is (IMHO) the most
> >>>"realistic" sword fighting on film, rent the videos of Ken Russel's The
> >>>Three/Four Musketeers.
> >>>
> >>Well, does anyone remember the sword fight between Wesley and Montoya in
> >>The Princess Bride ? :)))
> >>Syl
> >>
> >
> > When I first started fencing, a lot of the students (who did fencing)
> > cited that scene as the reason why they got into it...
> >
> > It's brilliant!
>
> What did you fence?  I was <arrgh> a sabre fencer myself.
>
>

I fenced foil and epee myself.  I don't have the build for saber fencing.



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From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Tour
In-Reply-To: <003001c1eaf3$a961b570$2100a8c0@pengelley.com>
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Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 08:50:33 +1000 (GMT+1000)
From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Tour
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


I will be, if you're willing to fly to Brisbane *g*

> So who is in on the Perth, WA (Western Australia) contingent then?
>
> David
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of James Young
> > Sent: Wednesday, 24 April 2002 2:13 AM
> > To: FEISTFANS-L
> > Subject: Re: Tour
> >
> >
> >     I think we'd be better off doing that regionally...partially
> > because of the expenses of getting us together, and the fact that
> > 500+ of us might be a bit much for any place to handle short of a
> > (re: expensive) convention center.  I do think it might be a
> > distinct possibility if people are willing to put in a little time
> > and effort to bug each other over a bottle of scotch.
> >     Besides if we are organized we stand a better chance to get Ray
> > to come visit when we write the publishers and bug booksellers than
> > if we do it individually.  Money talks in that business and even 50
> > to 100 definite buyers are a big plus to any business.
> >
> > -James
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> >
> > > Hey Ray....
> > >
> > > I've been on the list for a while now... *boggles that statement*
> > > And can't seem to recall if we've ever discussed a "feistfans-l"
> > > gathering of sorts...
> > >
> > > Basically just for members of the list, and more of a personal
> > > gathering then just a show up sign and leave type thing....
> > >
> > > Is that something that would interest you in showing up to...
> > > Like a dinner or something... or is that strictly not something we
> > > can/should discuss here.
> > >
> > > Just think... we pay like $100 a piece or something... which
> > should cover all
> > > of the food... your expenses..
> > >
> > > Anyway... just a thought
> > >
> > > Larry
> > >
> > > My Homepage
> > > http://www.psihawk.com
> > >
> > > Raymond E. Feist FAQ
> > > http://www.psihawk.com/feist
> > >
> >
>
>

Thanks
Darragh
================================================
University of Queensland
Information Technology / Arts (History) student
[Email #1] s356179@student.uq.edu.au
[Email #2] squik@solutionone.com.au
[Web Site] http://hainsworth.ath.cx/~squik/
================================================



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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Tour - Oz people
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*** EOOH ***
From: coweater@alphalink.com.au
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Tour - Oz people
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 09:23:43 +1000
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well how many from Oz are on the list, maybe we should bump heads together 
and write to the publisher about organising a "drink with" or "dinner with 
Ray" any takers wanna see what we can come up with?

Brad



>
>Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
>Sent by: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>24/04/2002 08:50 AM
>Please respond to FEISTFANS-L
>
> 
>	 To:     <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
>	 cc: 
>	 Subject:        RE: Tour
>
>
>
>I will be, if you're willing to fly to Brisbane *g*
>
>> So who is in on the Perth, WA (Western Australia) contingent then?
>>
>> David
>>
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>> > [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of James Young
>> > Sent: Wednesday, 24 April 2002 2:13 AM
>> > To: FEISTFANS-L
>> > Subject: Re: Tour
>> >
>> >
>> >     I think we'd be better off doing that regionally...partially
>> > because of the expenses of getting us together, and the fact that
>> > 500+ of us might be a bit much for any place to handle short of a
>> > (re: expensive) convention center.  I do think it might be a
>> > distinct possibility if people are willing to put in a little time
>> > and effort to bug each other over a bottle of scotch.
>> >     Besides if we are organized we stand a better chance to get Ray
>> > to come visit when we write the publishers and bug booksellers than
>> > if we do it individually.  Money talks in that business and even 50
>> > to 100 definite buyers are a big plus to any business.
>> >
>> > -James
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> >
>> > > Hey Ray....
>> > >
>> > > I've been on the list for a while now... *boggles that statement*
>> > > And can't seem to recall if we've ever discussed a "feistfans-l"
>> > > gathering of sorts...
>> > >
>> > > Basically just for members of the list, and more of a personal
>> > > gathering then just a show up sign and leave type thing....
>> > >
>> > > Is that something that would interest you in showing up to...
>> > > Like a dinner or something... or is that strictly not something we
>> > > can/should discuss here.
>> > >
>> > > Just think... we pay like $100 a piece or something... which
>> > should cover all
>> > > of the food... your expenses..
>> > >
>> > > Anyway... just a thought
>> > >
>> > > Larry
>> > >
>> > > My Homepage
>> > > http://www.psihawk.com
>> > >
>> > > Raymond E. Feist FAQ
>> > > http://www.psihawk.com/feist
>> > >
>> >
>>
>>
>
>Thanks
>Darragh
>================================================
>University of Queensland
>Information Technology / Arts (History) student
>[Email #1] s356179@student.uq.edu.au
>[Email #2] squik@solutionone.com.au
>[Web Site] http://hainsworth.ath.cx/~squik/
>================================================

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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 09:30:35 +1000 (EST)
From: "A IRVING" <s355156@student.uq.edu.au>
To: feistfans-l@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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Responding To:    Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
Original Date:    Wed, 24 Apr 2002 08:49:12 +1000 (GMT+1000)
> > I have, upon rare occasions, snuck off for a drink with some folks from
> > the list.  Happened once in King of Prussia, PA, once in Palo Alto, CA,
> > and once in Sydney.  But time is the usual culprit.  Hell, I once had a
> > stunning blonde in Perth ask me home for dinner,and I had to decline 
> > (of
> > course, I was married at the time . . . ).
> > Sometimes folks gather before a signing to hang out together, but 
> > that's
> > up to them.
> > Best, R.E.F.
> > ----
> > Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
> > stupidity.
> 
> Heh. When you come to Brisbane (AUS), I might be able to scramble up some
> 'feistfans', and take you on a tour of the local establishments *g*
> 
> Tell me Ray, have you ever had the pleasure of doing a book signing, 
> drunk
> *g*
> 
> Thanks
> Darragh
I am sure darragh and I can find many a pub that would suit you Ray. Tell 
me, if we are to contact booksellers to bug them for signing opportunities, 
do you think it would be best to contact a major bookseller in the city 
itself? or a big chain bookseller in one of the larger suburban shopping 
centres? Last time you were in brisbane I went to a booksigning, then your 
talk at the Hilton about Rage Down under, in the city. I think you also did 
a signing at a local shopping centre though. Mary Ryan's no onger exists in 
the city though, so another store will have to suffice.
CIAO,
     Aaron

http://www.hallofworlds.net/kerr/main.php
http://www.nightshadow.co.uk 



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Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 20:20:05 EDT
Subject: Some funny Midkemia jokes.
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From: Gkhd11a@aol.com
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 20:20:05 EDT
Subject: Some funny Midkemia jokes.
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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The mystery....

The magic....

The passion....

Fantus Von Firedrake II....today on Biography.


A prince among firedrakes, Fantus was born into Royalty.  Despite overcoming 
a terrible lisp at an early age, his family was forced out of power, and 
Fantus was orphaned.  For many years, he survived on his own, a wily 
pyroreptile, until one fateful day he found a helpless animal wandering in 
the woods.  The gentle Fantus took pity on this animal, taking him in as a 
pet,sheltering him and naming him Kulgan.

Over the next few years, Fantus taught Kulgan that magical secrets of his 
people.

Next, on Biography...

-Who really sealed the rift?  Not Macros and Pug, according to Fantus...and 
he has the scars to prove it!

-Carline and Fantus' illicit love affair after the death of Roland.

-Fantus deals with a terrible addiction to human flesh, and his attempts to 
devour young William.   
    
-------------------------------


Why William really left Stardock- to cover his tracks!

After a few years of hidding in fear, Fantus comes out to tell the truths of 
"Drakes best friend"

Fantus-
"It was all fun and games when we first met.  But then over the years he got 
angery.  Then the beatings set in.  They were horrible.  Then the next day he 
would come back and beg forgiveness, with offerings of chocolate.  When his 
father found out, Pug made him leave.  I've been so embarrased and never told 
anyone... untill today"

William replys-
"I never had sexual relations with that Drake." 

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Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 18:27:11 -0600
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
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Gkhd11a@aol.com wrote:
> 
> Next, on Biography...

Sounds more like Maury or Springer :)

Craig J. Ries



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How long will you be in Vegas and will you make any stops for fans?

I assist in running a gallery in Caesars any chance you can stop by? 

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Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 18:18:39 -0700
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Darragh Murray wrote:

>>Darragh Murray wrote:
>>
>>
>>>>>Now, if you want to see what is (IMHO) the most
>>>>>"realistic" sword fighting on film, rent the videos of Ken Russel's The
>>>>>Three/Four Musketeers.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>Well, does anyone remember the sword fight between Wesley and Montoya in
>>>>
> The Princess Bride ? :)))
> 
>>>>Syl
>>>>
>>>>
>>>When I first started fencing, a lot of the students (who did fencing)
>>>cited that scene as the reason why they got into it...
>>>
>>>It's brilliant!
>>>
>>What did you fence?  I was <arrgh> a sabre fencer myself.
>>
> 
> 
> I mainly did foil...did that for about 6 months, till uni contrived to keep
> me away...
> 
> Did some sabre as well, not much, not enough...and i wanted to do some epee,
> ...but alas...


I sympathize.  I started (as I suppose most do) on foil, but gravitated 
quickly to sabre.  Stayed with that for 2 years, after which I was n 
longer ineligible - they only had 4 levels at the school, and you 
couldn't repeat.

But it was fun!


cd
-- 
Death to all Absolutists!



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References: <1112947B-569F-11D6-88F2-003065A8A644@bittersea.com>
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Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 18:20:39 -0700
From: Carl Dershem <dershem@cox.net>
Organization: Project Selene
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Subject: Re: Future
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Raymond Feist wrote:

> 
>> Does the new series include the development at sorcerers Isle or is that
>> further down the line in the books?
> 
> "Developments?"  What developments?  Did Pug sub-divide the bloody 
> island and start building condos and time-shares?  Damn.  Those guys 
> never tell me anything.


The whole thing's been done over in tract housing - looks like Sabre 
Springs on a crowded day.  :/


cd
-- 
Death to all Absolutists!



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From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Leather Magician
In-Reply-To: <002401c1eae0$17be35c0$fe79a8c0@IAIN>
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Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 13:22:46 +1000 (GMT+1000)
From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Leather Magician
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John Bunting - if he still reads his list mail - would be the best person
to ask, as he seems to have the most feist-related stuff in the world.

A leatherbound copy of Magician - this is curious - because while I've
heard a lot about this kind of edition coming out, Ive never seen/heard of
one existing...


> Hi all.
>
> I have seen a copy of Magician (Masterpieces of fantasy Easton Press
> Edition) but the seller is looking for quite a lot of money for it.  As far
> as I can tell it is on new condition and is signed by Ray.  Does anybody
> have any idea how much it is worth?
>
> Full details.
> Premium Leather
> Distinctive cover design
> Hubbed spine, accented in real 22KT gold
> Satin ribbon page marker
> Gilded page edges
> Long-lasting, high quality acid-neutral paper
> Smyth-sewn pages for strength and durability
> Beautiful illustrations
>
>
> Thanks,
> Iain.
>
>

Thanks
Darragh
================================================
University of Queensland
Information Technology / Arts (History) student
[Email #1] s356179@student.uq.edu.au
[Email #2] squik@solutionone.com.au
[Web Site] http://hainsworth.ath.cx/~squik/
================================================



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From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Tour - Oz people
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Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 13:24:37 +1000 (GMT+1000)
From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Tour - Oz people
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


I'd be willing to attend, but not to co-ordinate it:D, nor petition Ray's
publisher - my university guided into pre-world war 1 german radical right
wing politics is keeping me fairly occupied:)

> well how many from Oz are on the list, maybe we should bump heads together
> and write to the publisher about organising a "drink with" or "dinner with
> Ray" any takers wanna see what we can come up with?
>
> Brad
>
>
>
>
> Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
> Sent by: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> 24/04/2002 08:50 AM
> Please respond to FEISTFANS-L
>
>
>         To:     <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
>         cc:
>         Subject:        RE: Tour
>
>
>
> I will be, if you're willing to fly to Brisbane *g*
>
> > So who is in on the Perth, WA (Western Australia) contingent then?
> >
> > David
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > > [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of James Young
> > > Sent: Wednesday, 24 April 2002 2:13 AM
> > > To: FEISTFANS-L
> > > Subject: Re: Tour
> > >
> > >
> > >     I think we'd be better off doing that regionally...partially
> > > because of the expenses of getting us together, and the fact that
> > > 500+ of us might be a bit much for any place to handle short of a
> > > (re: expensive) convention center.  I do think it might be a
> > > distinct possibility if people are willing to put in a little time
> > > and effort to bug each other over a bottle of scotch.
> > >     Besides if we are organized we stand a better chance to get Ray
> > > to come visit when we write the publishers and bug booksellers than
> > > if we do it individually.  Money talks in that business and even 50
> > > to 100 definite buyers are a big plus to any business.
> > >
> > > -James
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > >
> > > > Hey Ray....
> > > >
> > > > I've been on the list for a while now... *boggles that statement*
> > > > And can't seem to recall if we've ever discussed a "feistfans-l"
> > > > gathering of sorts...
> > > >
> > > > Basically just for members of the list, and more of a personal
> > > > gathering then just a show up sign and leave type thing....
> > > >
> > > > Is that something that would interest you in showing up to...
> > > > Like a dinner or something... or is that strictly not something we
> > > > can/should discuss here.
> > > >
> > > > Just think... we pay like $100 a piece or something... which
> > > should cover all
> > > > of the food... your expenses..
> > > >
> > > > Anyway... just a thought
> > > >
> > > > Larry
> > > >
> > > > My Homepage
> > > > http://www.psihawk.com
> > > >
> > > > Raymond E. Feist FAQ
> > > > http://www.psihawk.com/feist
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
> Thanks
> Darragh
> ================================================
> University of Queensland
> Information Technology / Arts (History) student
> [Email #1] s356179@student.uq.edu.au
> [Email #2] squik@solutionone.com.au
> [Web Site] http://hainsworth.ath.cx/~squik/
> ================================================
>
>
>
>

Thanks
Darragh
================================================
University of Queensland
Information Technology / Arts (History) student
[Email #1] s356179@student.uq.edu.au
[Email #2] squik@solutionone.com.au
[Web Site] http://hainsworth.ath.cx/~squik/
================================================



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From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Swashbuckling
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Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 13:28:56 +1000 (GMT+1000)
From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Swashbuckling
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

> >>>>>Now, if you want to see what is (IMHO) the most
> >>>>>"realistic" sword fighting on film, rent the videos of Ken Russel's The
> >>>>>Three/Four Musketeers.
> >>>>Well, does anyone remember the sword fight between Wesley and Montoya in
> > The Princess Bride ? :)))
> >>What did you fence?  I was <arrgh> a sabre fencer myself.
> > I mainly did foil...did that for about 6 months, till uni contrived to keep
> > me away...
> > Did some sabre as well, not much, not enough...and i wanted to do some epee,
> > ...but alas...
> I sympathize.  I started (as I suppose most do) on foil, but gravitated
> quickly to sabre.  Stayed with that for 2 years, after which I was n
> longer ineligible - they only had 4 levels at the school, and you
> couldn't repeat.
> But it was fun!
> cd

At some classes, the teachers would encourage the students to practice
dual weapon styles, using a combination of two foils (which was HARD -
kept getting in the way of each other) or with sabre and foil, lunging
with foil, slashing with sabre...while it was all for novelty, some
students took it fairly seriously ... :)

Where I learned, there was only three levels of foil competitance -
bronze, silver and gold... I was mid way through silver when I
quit..however the difference between gold level and hard-core competition
was HUGE...

Thanks
Darragh
================================================
University of Queensland
Information Technology / Arts (History) student
[Email #1] s356179@student.uq.edu.au
[Email #2] squik@solutionone.com.au
[Web Site] http://hainsworth.ath.cx/~squik/
================================================



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Subject: Re: Tour - Oz people
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>well how many from Oz are on the list, maybe we should bump heads together
>and write to the publisher about organising a "drink with" or "dinner with
>Ray" any takers wanna see what we can come up with?

Might be a good idea. Last time Ray came around we tried a feistfans
gathering which didn't really get going. If anyone is willing to organise
something, and we can convince the publisher of that then I'm definitely in.
Otherwise, a meeting of just us feistfans might be an interesting idea -
just to put faces to names.

Regards,

Alex Loke
nerf@alphalink.com.au

<INSERT WITTY LINE HERE>



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Subject: Re: Tour - Oz people
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*** EOOH ***
From: coweater@alphalink.com.au
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Tour - Oz people
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 15:52:02 +1000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I'll telephone the publishers and see what initial ground work would need 
to take place i.e. number of expected peoples etc. I'll email my results 
back to list. Just as not to waste my time, if I get a positive response 
from the publishers (I can dream) how many Oz listers would be interested 
and where if at all would you travel to if it could only be done at one 
location for Oz? just email me off-list.

Regards,

Brad



>"Alex Loke" <nerf@alphalink.com.au>
>Sent by: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>24/04/2002 02:01 PM
>Please respond to FEISTFANS-L
>
> 
>	 To:     <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
>	 cc: 
>	 Subject:        Re: Tour - Oz people
>
>
>
>>well how many from Oz are on the list, maybe we should bump heads
>>together and write to the publisher about organising a "drink with"
>>or "dinner with Ray" any takers wanna see what we can come up with?
>
>Might be a good idea. Last time Ray came around we tried a feistfans
>gathering which didn't really get going. If anyone is willing to organise
>something, and we can convince the publisher of that then I'm definitely 
>in.
>Otherwise, a meeting of just us feistfans might be an interesting idea -
>just to put faces to names.
>
>Regards,
>
>Alex Loke
>nerf@alphalink.com.au
>
><INSERT WITTY LINE HERE>

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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Leather Magician
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*** EOOH ***
From: coweater@alphalink.com.au
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Leather Magician
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 15:56:44 +1000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

At a antique dealer gathering (dont know what else to call it) there is 
this old guy who is a leather worker (can't remember offical profession 
name) but he leather bounds anthing, including books, gold or silver 
lettering any style. He told me he's been at it 50 yrs, I've always had a 
thought that when Mag 20th Ed comes out I'd get 2 hardbacks and have one 
leather bound. Maybe I can get it done before the tour :)

Getting back to my point, I think there may have been one (scracthing 
head) but you could always get one made!

Brad




>Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
>Sent by: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>24/04/2002 01:22 PM
>Please respond to FEISTFANS-L
>
> 
>	 To:     <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
>	 cc: 
>	 Subject:        Re: Leather Magician
>
>
>John Bunting - if he still reads his list mail - would be the best person
>to ask, as he seems to have the most feist-related stuff in the world.
>
>A leatherbound copy of Magician - this is curious - because while I've
>heard a lot about this kind of edition coming out, Ive never seen/heard of
>one existing...
>
>
>> Hi all.
>>
>> I have seen a copy of Magician (Masterpieces of fantasy Easton Press
>> Edition) but the seller is looking for quite a lot of money for it.  As far
>> as I can tell it is on new condition and is signed by Ray.  Does anybody
>> have any idea how much it is worth?
>>
>> Full details.
>> Premium Leather
>> Distinctive cover design
>> Hubbed spine, accented in real 22KT gold
>> Satin ribbon page marker
>> Gilded page edges
>> Long-lasting, high quality acid-neutral paper
>> Smyth-sewn pages for strength and durability
>> Beautiful illustrations
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Iain.
>>
>>
>
>Thanks
>Darragh
>================================================
>University of Queensland
>Information Technology / Arts (History) student
>[Email #1] s356179@student.uq.edu.au
>[Email #2] squik@solutionone.com.au
>[Web Site] http://hainsworth.ath.cx/~squik/
>================================================

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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Tour - Oz people Update with promisinig news
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*** EOOH ***
From: coweater@alphalink.com.au
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Tour - Oz people Update with promisinig news
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 16:40:37 +1000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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I have just gotten off the phone, been bounced between Sydney and 
Melbourne and this is what I have so far.

Part 1

HarperCollins Australia are bringing Ray out Sept. this year, Kay Wright 
who for a better word deals with Ray's line here in Australia said that HC 
was interested in selling books and not really doing the dinner or drinks 
thing, but did give me the name of a few poeple (bookstore managers) who 
would be interested. She said that the date will be at this stage 16 - 21 
Sept but hasn't been confirmed, since they dont even know when he's flying 
in.

Part 2

I've been asked not to say which bookstore yet, but one Melbourne 
bookstore said they'd love to, and I quote "Order in a few cases of wine 
and scotch and have a small gathering after the book signing, say 150 
people at most, that way we can keep the cost down" this very polite and 
helpful person is going to contact harperCollins and then give me a call 
next week regarding organising this. he did say he's done thiss with other 
authors and would love to have Ray and list memebers.

There is also a book store in Sydney that may be willing to do it, but the 
manager wasn't there, so since tomorrow is a public holiday in Oz I wont 
hear anything until friday, but as soon as i do I'll send it through.

Regards,

Brad
(Big Smile, fingers crossed)





>"Alex Loke" <nerf@alphalink.com.au>
>Sent by: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>24/04/2002 02:01 PM
>Please respond to FEISTFANS-L
>
> 
>	 To:     <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
>	 cc: 
>	 Subject:        Re: Tour - Oz people
>
>
>
>>well how many from Oz are on the list, maybe we should bump heads
>>together and write to the publisher about organising a "drink with"
>>or "dinner with Ray" any takers wanna see what we can come up with?
>
>Might be a good idea. Last time Ray came around we tried a feistfans
>gathering which didn't really get going. If anyone is willing to organise
>something, and we can convince the publisher of that then I'm definitely 
>in.
>Otherwise, a meeting of just us feistfans might be an interesting idea -
>just to put faces to names.
>
>Regards,
>
>Alex Loke
>nerf@alphalink.com.au
>
><INSERT WITTY LINE HERE>

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Subject: Re: Some funny Midkemia jokes.
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 08:48:56 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: Some funny Midkemia jokes.
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Actually, I'm kind of annoyed.

Gkhd11a, why didn't you properly attribute this?  You didn't
write it, you got it from the hall of worlds.

rip

At 01:20 AM 4/24/02, Gkhd11a@aol.com wrote:
>The mystery.... 
>
>The magic.... 
>
>The passion.... 
>
>Fantus Von Firedrake II....today on Biography. 
>
>
>A prince among firedrakes, Fantus was born into Royalty.  Despite overcoming a terrible lisp at an early age, his family was forced out of power, and Fantus was orphaned.  For many years, he survived on his own, a wily pyroreptile, until one fateful day he found a helpless animal wandering in the woods.  The gentle Fantus took pity on this animal, taking him in as a pet,sheltering him and naming him Kulgan. 
>
>Over the next few years, Fantus taught Kulgan that magical secrets of his people. 
>
>Next, on Biography... 
>
>-Who really sealed the rift?  Not Macros and Pug, according to Fantus...and he has the scars to prove it! 
>
>-Carline and Fantus' illicit love affair after the death of Roland. 
>
>-Fantus deals with a terrible addiction to human flesh, and his attempts to devour young William. 
>
>------------------------------- 
>
>
>Why William really left Stardock- to cover his tracks! 
>
>After a few years of hidding in fear, Fantus comes out to tell the truths of "Drakes best friend" 
>
>Fantus- 
>"It was all fun and games when we first met.  But then over the years he got angery.  Then the beatings set in.  They were horrible.  Then the next day he would come back and beg forgiveness, with offerings of chocolate.  When his father found out, Pug made him leave.  I've been so embarrased and never told anyone... untill today" 
>
>William replys- 
>"I never had sexual relations with that Drake." 
>
>



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Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 08:46:09 +0100
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Subject: Re: secret handshake
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And the hat.  Did I mention that hat?

rip

At 06:04 PM 4/23/02, Justin wrote:
>is there really a secret handshake or
>were you just joking richard? if there
>isn't I think there should be or
>something to let Ray know we're on the
>list. But it could be a lot easier if we
>just said "hi, i'm on the list!"
>
>Just an idea and question from Justin



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References: <20020423165108.9552936F9@sitemail.everyone.net>
Subject: Re: Leather Magician
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 09:15:52 +0100
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Iain" <iainp@btinternet.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Leather Magician
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 09:15:52 +0100
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

The book is by the Easton Press so for once I decided that I'd use my brain
and went to http://www.eastonpress.com/ and bingo thats who the seller got
it from (lots of lovely pictures).  It was on sale on Ebay, buy it now for
£103.  I was going to get it but it was only a copy of Magician - Master and
I was looking for the full story.

I cant find it now but there is another one listed at:-
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1531833904

Its a pity Eason Press only seem to take orders from the US.  I'd like a
complete copy of Magician. :o(


---
Iain.
"And God said, 'Let there be light' and there was light, but the Electricity
Board said He would have to wait until Thursday to be connected."
-Spike Milligan-

----- Original Message -----
From: "Nathan" <nathan@irish4ever.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 5:51 PM
Subject: Re: Leather Magician


> --- "Iain" <iainp@btinternet.com> wrote:
> >I have seen a copy of Magician (Masterpieces of fantasy Easton Press
> >Edition) but the seller is looking for quite a lot of money for it.  As far
> >as I can tell it is on new condition and is signed by Ray.  Does anybody
> >have any idea how much it is worth?
>
>
> Where is this edition available? I'd buy it even without Mr. Feist's autograph - it would be less expensive item.
>
> >Full details.
> >Premium Leather
> >Distinctive cover design
> >Hubbed spine, accented in real 22KT gold
> >Satin ribbon page marker
> >Gilded page edges
> >Long-lasting, high quality acid-neutral paper
> >Smyth-sewn pages for strength and durability
> >Beautiful illustrations
>
> Sounds excellent. Can you tell something about illustrations?
>
> Regards,
> Father Nathan
>
>
> _____________________________________________________________
> Get your Free, Permanent, and Private Irish Email Today!
> ---------- http://www.irish4ever.com -----------
>
> _____________________________________________________________
> Run a small business? Then you need professional email like you@yourbiz.com from Everyone.net  http://www.everyone.net?tag
>



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From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Leather Magician
In-Reply-To: <002801c1eb68$4060dae0$fe79a8c0@IAIN>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 18:48:48 +1000 (GMT+1000)
From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Leather Magician
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


Ahhh. I think I do recall a company of that name do leather bound editions
of some books...

> The book is by the Easton Press so for once I decided that I'd use my brain
> and went to http://www.eastonpress.com/ and bingo thats who the seller got
> it from (lots of lovely pictures).  It was on sale on Ebay, buy it now for
> £103.  I was going to get it but it was only a copy of Magician - Master and
> I was looking for the full story.
>
> I cant find it now but there is another one listed at:-
> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1531833904
>
> Its a pity Eason Press only seem to take orders from the US.  I'd like a
> complete copy of Magician. :o(
>
>
> ---
> Iain.
> "And God said, 'Let there be light' and there was light, but the Electricity
> Board said He would have to wait until Thursday to be connected."
> -Spike Milligan-
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Nathan" <nathan@irish4ever.com>
> To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 5:51 PM
> Subject: Re: Leather Magician
>
>
> > --- "Iain" <iainp@btinternet.com> wrote:
> > >I have seen a copy of Magician (Masterpieces of fantasy Easton Press
> > >Edition) but the seller is looking for quite a lot of money for it.  As
> far
> > >as I can tell it is on new condition and is signed by Ray.  Does anybody
> > >have any idea how much it is worth?
> >
> >
> > Where is this edition available? I'd buy it even without Mr. Feist's
> autograph - it would be less expensive item.
> >
> > >Full details.
> > >Premium Leather
> > >Distinctive cover design
> > >Hubbed spine, accented in real 22KT gold
> > >Satin ribbon page marker
> > >Gilded page edges
> > >Long-lasting, high quality acid-neutral paper
> > >Smyth-sewn pages for strength and durability
> > >Beautiful illustrations
> >
> > Sounds excellent. Can you tell something about illustrations?
> >
> > Regards,
> > Father Nathan
> >
> >
> > _____________________________________________________________
> > Get your Free, Permanent, and Private Irish Email Today!
> > ---------- http://www.irish4ever.com -----------
> >
> > _____________________________________________________________
> > Run a small business? Then you need professional email like
> you@yourbiz.com from Everyone.net  http://www.everyone.net?tag
> >
>
>

Thanks
Darragh
================================================
University of Queensland
Information Technology / Arts (History) student
[Email #1] s356179@student.uq.edu.au
[Email #2] squik@solutionone.com.au
[Web Site] http://hainsworth.ath.cx/~squik/
================================================



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From: "Wouter Durnez" <arutha_of_krondor@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: secret handshake
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 10:50:08 +0000
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From: "Wouter Durnez" <arutha_of_krondor@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: secret handshake
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 10:50:08 +0000
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What hat?


>From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
>Subject: Re: secret handshake
>Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 08:46:09 +0100
>
>And the hat.  Did I mention that hat?
>
>rip
>
>At 06:04 PM 4/23/02, Justin wrote:
> >is there really a secret handshake or
> >were you just joking richard? if there
> >isn't I think there should be or
> >something to let Ray know we're on the
> >list. But it could be a lot easier if we
> >just said "hi, i'm on the list!"
> >
> >Just an idea and question from Justin
>




_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx



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From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: secret handshake
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 14:04:49 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: secret handshake
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

shhhhhh!  *looks around cautiously* 

It's a secret...

rip

At 11:50 AM 4/24/02, Wouter Durnez wrote:
>What hat?
>
>
>>From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
>>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
>>Subject: Re: secret handshake
>>Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 08:46:09 +0100
>>
>>And the hat.  Did I mention that hat?
>>
>>rip
>>
>>At 06:04 PM 4/23/02, Justin wrote:
>>>is there really a secret handshake or
>>>were you just joking richard? if there
>>>isn't I think there should be or
>>>something to let Ray know we're on the
>>>list. But it could be a lot easier if we
>>>just said "hi, i'm on the list!"
>>>
>>>Just an idea and question from Justin
>
>
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx



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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Larry Siegel <larry@psihawk.com>
Subject: Re: secret handshake
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 09:52:23 -0400
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Larry Siegel <larry@psihawk.com>
Subject: Re: secret handshake
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Hey rip..

Got the hat... got the handshake down... and I got the 'thing'... we're all 
set.

Actually we could all find our local entrances to the HoW... and meet up at 
Sorcerer's Isle
and rift over to the signing together...


Larry

My Homepage
http://www.psihawk.com

Raymond E. Feist FAQ
http://www.psihawk.com/feist



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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: secret handshake
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020424094954.00ab73a0@mail.optonline.net>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 15:46:46 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: secret handshake
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Tsk, Larry.

You weren't supposed to mention the "thing".

*rolls eyes*  Now everyone knows.

What theh ell, I'll bring the 3 Dice Mik board, and we can
have a go at working out a defence against 'Sorcerer's Bile'  

rip

At 02:52 PM 4/24/02, Larry Siegel wrote:
>Hey rip..
>
>Got the hat... got the handshake down... and I got the 'thing'... we're all set.
>
>Actually we could all find our local entrances to the HoW... and meet up at Sorcerer's Isle
>and rift over to the signing together...
>
>
>Larry
>
>My Homepage
>http://www.psihawk.com
>
>Raymond E. Feist FAQ
>http://www.psihawk.com/feist



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From: "Wouter Durnez" <arutha_of_krondor@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: secret handshake
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 15:36:28 +0000
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From: "Wouter Durnez" <arutha_of_krondor@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: secret handshake
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 15:36:28 +0000
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I won't tell anyone :) Come ooooooon, tell tell tell!


>From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
>Subject: Re: secret handshake
>Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 14:04:49 +0100
>
>shhhhhh!  *looks around cautiously*
>
>It's a secret...
>
>rip
>
>At 11:50 AM 4/24/02, Wouter Durnez wrote:
> >What hat?
> >
> >
> >>From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
> >>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> >>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
> >>Subject: Re: secret handshake
> >>Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 08:46:09 +0100
> >>
> >>And the hat.  Did I mention that hat?
> >>
> >>rip
> >>
> >>At 06:04 PM 4/23/02, Justin wrote:
> >>>is there really a secret handshake or
> >>>were you just joking richard? if there
> >>>isn't I think there should be or
> >>>something to let Ray know we're on the
> >>>list. But it could be a lot easier if we
> >>>just said "hi, i'm on the list!"
> >>>
> >>>Just an idea and question from Justin
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >_________________________________________________________________
> >MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
>http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
>




_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.



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From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: secret handshake
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 02:26:33 +0800
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*** EOOH ***
From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: secret handshake
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 02:26:33 +0800
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

At least he didn't mention the mandatory goofy whats-it

David

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu 
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Richard Williamson
> Sent: Wednesday, 24 April 2002 10:47 PM
> To: FEISTFANS-L
> Subject: Re: secret handshake
> 
> 
> Tsk, Larry.
> 
> You weren't supposed to mention the "thing".
> 
> *rolls eyes*  Now everyone knows.
> 
> What theh ell, I'll bring the 3 Dice Mik board, and we can
> have a go at working out a defence against 'Sorcerer's Bile'  
> 
> rip
> 
> At 02:52 PM 4/24/02, Larry Siegel wrote:
> >Hey rip..
> >
> >Got the hat... got the handshake down... and I got the 
> 'thing'... we're all set.
> >
> >Actually we could all find our local entrances to the HoW... 
> and meet up at Sorcerer's Isle
> >and rift over to the signing together...
> >
> >
> >Larry
> >
> >My Homepage
> >http://www.psihawk.com
> >
> >Raymond E. Feist FAQ
> >http://www.psihawk.com/feist
> 



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From: "Michael Gibson" <mike@gibbyco.freeserve.co.uk>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Raybegone
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 19:29:01 +0100
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Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: "Michael Gibson" <mike@gibbyco.freeserve.co.uk>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Raybegone
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 19:29:01 +0100
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

> I'm off to Las Vegas, where a girl friend of mine is competing in the 
> Showgirl Extravaganza tomorrow night.  She's ask me to be there to lend 
> support and cheer loudly, which I will do, because not only is she one 
> of the most beautiful young women it has been my pleasure to have known, 
> she's a Scicilian-American from Linderhurst, Long Island, so if I don't 
> she'll hurt me.  For those who have no idea what kind of personality I'm 
> talking about, rend a copy of the 1st season of the Sopranos.
                 ^^^^
A Freudian slip? ;)

Mike,
Gibfish of the West

"Better to light a candle than to curse the darkness."
Confucius



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From: "Solaar" <Jody@tesco.net>
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References: <NGELLDNAEMBGGGHFAJPBOEAFCLAA.mike@gibbyco.freeserve.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Raybegone
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Solaar" <Jody@tesco.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Raybegone
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 19:45:13 +0100
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

> > I'm off to Las Vegas, where a girl friend of mine is competing in the
> > Showgirl Extravaganza tomorrow night.  She's ask me to be there to lend
> > support and cheer loudly, which I will do, because not only is she one
> > of the most beautiful young women it has been my pleasure to have known,
> > she's a Scicilian-American from Linderhurst, Long Island, so if I don't
> > she'll hurt me.  For those who have no idea what kind of personality I'm
> > talking about, rend a copy of the 1st season of the Sopranos.

(delurking after six months of having read but never commented...)

I'm sure that everyone will agree with me when I say that we're sorry to
hear about your sucky luck in having to go to this event.

I'm sure - like every red-blooded male, such as myself - we would prefer to
stay at home with a cool beer, watching Baywatch and urging Pamela to 'run
like the wind'.

Solaar
send his comisserations from the UK

PS - I went out with a topless dancer and a podium dancer so I can
understand your strain...



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*** EOOH ***
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: "Susan" <susanandderek@freemail.absa.co.za>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Tour
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 09:15:22 +0200
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Mr Feist

I have not written since I signed on, as I just enjoy reading the letters
from your other fans. In this instance, I will go along with Reinhardt and
say that it would be good for you to visit our beautiful country, South
Africa. I work in a government dept. and know of many fans who would love to
see you here ( like meeting god ). As for HarperCollins deciding whether
it's cost effective or not, have they looked at the exchange rates lately,
whether it's rand/dollar or rand/pound. You could visit us with a wallet
full of change and still live like a king.

Derek

-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Raymond Feist
>Sent: 23 April 2002 11:45
>To: FEISTFANS-L
>Subject: Re: Tour
>
>
>
>On Monday, April 23, 2001, at 12:30 AM, Reinhardt Gerber wrote:
>
>> Ray
>> Have You ever been to South Africa, cause I know there'll be lots of
>> people
>> who'd like to meet you.
>> I know you said propably not this tour because of timeframes, but you
>> must
>> realy try to visit some time.
>>
>> Reinhardt
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>I have nothing to say in the matter.  So my "trying" is zip in terms of
>impact.  It has everything to do with HarperCollins deciding if it's
>cost effective or not.  Flying from San Diego to Cape Town is not a
>short/cheap trip.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
>stupidity.
>


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Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 15:11:19 EDT
Subject: Re: secret handshake
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*** EOOH ***
From: RBlackley@aol.com
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 15:11:19 EDT
Subject: Re: secret handshake
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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It was a joke.
Richard

In a message dated 4/24/2002 7:11:15 AM Eastern Daylight Time, 
arutha_of_krondor@hotmail.com writes:


> What hat?


-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
"Wit is cultured insolence"
                         Aristotle
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From: "Paddyjack [ ]" <erykel@lycos.com>
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From: "Paddyjack [ ]" <erykel@lycos.com>
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 I'm not Ray, but reading his "program" description, I'm not sure if I
was him that I would take too much of my time to stop for fans...:-)

Have a nice vacations :-)
Paddyjack

--

On Tue, 23 Apr 2002 21:13:49  
 Myecho32 wrote:
>How long will you be in Vegas and will you make any stops for fans?
>
>I assist in running a gallery in Caesars any chance you can stop by? 
>


See Dave Matthews Band live or win a signed guitar
http://r.lycos.com/r/bmgfly_mail_dmb/http://win.ipromotions.com/lycos_020201/splash.asp 



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From: Larry Siegel <larry@psihawk.com>
Subject: RE: Tour
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 15:46:19 -0400
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Larry Siegel <larry@psihawk.com>
Subject: RE: Tour
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Derek...


Ray is not here at the moment..
To save you from being yelled at...

Ray has **NO** Say in where he goes... no matter how much or little it costs.
No Matter how much he wishes to go somewhere.... It's up to his publishers.

So they need to be convinced, not Ray.
 >

>I have nothing to say in the matter.  So my "trying" is zip in terms of
>impact.  It has everything to do with HarperCollins deciding if it's
>cost effective or not.  Flying from San Diego to Cape Town is not a
>short/cheap trip.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
>stupidity.


Larry

My Homepage
http://www.psihawk.com

Raymond E. Feist FAQ
http://www.psihawk.com/feist



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Subject: Re: secret handshake
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From: "Wouter Durnez" <arutha_of_krondor@hotmail.com>
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Well du-uh :-)

>From: RBlackley@aol.com
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
>Subject: Re: secret handshake
>Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 15:11:19 EDT
>
>It was a joke.
>Richard
>
>In a message dated 4/24/2002 7:11:15 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
>arutha_of_krondor@hotmail.com writes:
>
>
> > What hat?
>
>
>-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
>"Wit is cultured insolence"
>                          Aristotle
>-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
>
>




_________________________________________________________________
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From: Anestis Kozakis <kenosti@labyrinth.net.au>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 08:09:47 +1000
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Anestis Kozakis <kenosti@labyrinth.net.au>
Subject: Re: secret handshake
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

>
>At 02:52 PM 4/24/02, Larry Siegel wrote:
>  >Hey rip..
>  >
>  >Got the hat... got the handshake down... and I got the 'thing'... 
>we're all set.
>  >
>  >Actually we could all find our local entrances to the HoW... and 
>meet up at Sorcerer's Isle
>  >and rift over to the signing together...
>  >
>  >
>  >Larry


>Tsk, Larry.
>
>You weren't supposed to mention the "thing".
>
>*rolls eyes*  Now everyone knows.
>
>What theh ell, I'll bring the 3 Dice Mik board, and we can
>have a go at working out a defence against 'Sorcerer's Bile'

I saw that move used a few weeks ago.  Talk about brutal.  Virtually 
guaranteed a win.

>
>rip

Anestis.


-- 
kenosti@labyrinth.net.au
"A complete list of this film's associate producers
  is available upon request."
    -- In End Credits for "State and Main"



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From: "Paul Whitby" <pjwhitby@ntlworld.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
References: <Pine.OSF.4.30.0204241321070.1190-100000@student.uq.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Leather Magician
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 23:50:19 +0100
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Paul Whitby" <pjwhitby@ntlworld.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Leather Magician
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 23:50:19 +0100
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I've got one, Easton Press produced them. two volumes Magician:Apprentice
and Magican:Master. Got the Apprentice, waiting for a decent priced Master.

Paul

----- Original Message -----
From: "Darragh Murray" <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2002 4:22 AM
Subject: Re: Leather Magician


> John Bunting - if he still reads his list mail - would be the best person
> to ask, as he seems to have the most feist-related stuff in the world.
>
> A leatherbound copy of Magician - this is curious - because while I've
> heard a lot about this kind of edition coming out, Ive never seen/heard of
> one existing...
>
>
> > Hi all.
> >
> > I have seen a copy of Magician (Masterpieces of fantasy Easton Press
> > Edition) but the seller is looking for quite a lot of money for it.  As far
> > as I can tell it is on new condition and is signed by Ray.  Does anybody
> > have any idea how much it is worth?
> >
> > Full details.
> > Premium Leather
> > Distinctive cover design
> > Hubbed spine, accented in real 22KT gold
> > Satin ribbon page marker
> > Gilded page edges
> > Long-lasting, high quality acid-neutral paper
> > Smyth-sewn pages for strength and durability
> > Beautiful illustrations
> >
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Iain.
> >
> >
>
> Thanks
> Darragh
> ================================================
> University of Queensland
> Information Technology / Arts (History) student
> [Email #1] s356179@student.uq.edu.au
> [Email #2] squik@solutionone.com.au
> [Web Site] http://hainsworth.ath.cx/~squik/
> ================================================
>
>



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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: secret handshake
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020424122527.0265e830@mail.swindon.wrsec.fr> <F160qRFapNuT1FM1JOM00003c44@hotmail.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20020424153856.0268c010@mail.swindon.wrsec.fr>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 00:01:38 -0500
From: Bret Robideaux <bretr@alliances.org>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:0.9.4) Gecko/20011019 Netscape6/6.2
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: secret handshake
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Hey speaking of which ... I think I've got a good start at it. Start 
with "Atta-Boy", but after three moves switch to "Nothing Doing" (start 
at the fifth move). Only two things stymie me on this ... if he reverses 
his 6th and 7th moves or switches to "Everyone's a Ham" after move 4.

Give it a go and see what you can do.

Bret

Richard Williamson wrote:

> Tsk, Larry.
> 
> You weren't supposed to mention the "thing".
> 
> *rolls eyes*  Now everyone knows.
> 
> What theh ell, I'll bring the 3 Dice Mik board, and we can
> have a go at working out a defence against 'Sorcerer's Bile'  
> 
> rip
> 
> At 02:52 PM 4/24/02, Larry Siegel wrote:
> 
>>Hey rip..
>>
>>Got the hat... got the handshake down... and I got the 'thing'... we're all set.
>>
>>Actually we could all find our local entrances to the HoW... and meet up at Sorcerer's Isle
>>and rift over to the signing together...
>>
>>
>>Larry
>>
>>My Homepage
>>http://www.psihawk.com
>>
>>Raymond E. Feist FAQ
>>http://www.psihawk.com/feist
>>
> 



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From: "Michael Gibson" <mike@gibbyco.freeserve.co.uk>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: secret handshake
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 19:28:52 +0100
Message-ID: <NGELLDNAEMBGGGHFAJPBMEAFCLAA.mike@gibbyco.freeserve.co.uk>
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*** EOOH ***
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: "Michael Gibson" <mike@gibbyco.freeserve.co.uk>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: secret handshake
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 19:28:52 +0100
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

> I won't tell anyone :) Come ooooooon, tell tell tell!

You know the deal - if we tell you, we'll have to kill you.  It happened back in
'99 - an "outsider" almost learnt the handshake, and it always creates bother
with the local law enforcement.

To learn the hand shake, you must first endure The Ceremony.

Mike,
Gibfish of the West

"I hate odd weeks, and don't get me started on Tuesdays..."


>
> >From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
> >Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> >To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
> >Subject: Re: secret handshake
> >Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 14:04:49 +0100
> >
> >shhhhhh!  *looks around cautiously*
> >
> >It's a secret...
> >
> >rip
> >
> >At 11:50 AM 4/24/02, Wouter Durnez wrote:
> > >What hat?
> > >
> > >
> > >>From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
> > >>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > >>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
> > >>Subject: Re: secret handshake
> > >>Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 08:46:09 +0100
> > >>
> > >>And the hat.  Did I mention that hat?
> > >>
> > >>rip
> > >>
> > >>At 06:04 PM 4/23/02, Justin wrote:
> > >>>is there really a secret handshake or
> > >>>were you just joking richard? if there
> > >>>isn't I think there should be or
> > >>>something to let Ray know we're on the
> > >>>list. But it could be a lot easier if we
> > >>>just said "hi, i'm on the list!"
> > >>>
> > >>>Just an idea and question from Justin
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >_________________________________________________________________
> > >MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
> >http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
> >
>
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.
>
>



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Subject: Re: secret handshake
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Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: "James Barker" <heechee@softhome.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: secret handshake
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 18:53:30 +1000
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Gibson" <mike@gibbyco.freeserve.co.uk>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2002 4:28 AM
Subject: RE: secret handshake

> To learn the hand shake, you must first endure The Ceremony.

The Ceremony... Man, I still shudder at that memory... The place they put
the bull-ants, well, what can I say?

Cheers,
James



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From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: secret handshake
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 17:10:52 +0800
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*** EOOH ***
From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: secret handshake
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 17:10:52 +0800
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Bull Ants, how come you got off so easy?

David

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu 
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of James Barker
> Sent: Thursday, 25 April 2002 4:54 PM
> To: FEISTFANS-L
> Subject: Re: secret handshake
> 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Michael Gibson" <mike@gibbyco.freeserve.co.uk>
> To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2002 4:28 AM
> Subject: RE: secret handshake
> 
> > To learn the hand shake, you must first endure The Ceremony.
> 
> The Ceremony... Man, I still shudder at that memory... The 
> place they put
> the bull-ants, well, what can I say?
> 
> Cheers,
> James
> 



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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: secret handshake
In-Reply-To: <000a01c1ec36$b4927210$a43dd5cb@elcapitan>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 10:28:35 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: secret handshake
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

At 09:53 AM 4/25/02, James Barker wrote:
>> To learn the hand shake, you must first endure The Ceremony.
>
>The Ceremony... Man, I still shudder at that memory... The place they put
>the bull-ants, well, what can I say?

Ah the memories.  

rip



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To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
References: <OF45C18CAC.5762CF83-ONCA256BA5.001FF61E@alphalink>
Subject: Re: Tour - Oz people
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 19:32:28 +1000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "A Gnome" <nightshadow@froggy.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Tour - Oz people
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 19:32:28 +1000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I would be interested in attending, but it is very unlikely I would be
able to travel anywhere, since I officially don't have any holidays
till november. Honours sucks. But if it is brisbane, then I would
enjoy it.
>  ----- Original Message ----- 
>  From: coweater@alphalink.com.au 
>  To: FEISTFANS-L 
>  Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2002 3:52 PM
>  Subject: Re: Tour - Oz people
>
>
>
>  I'll telephone the publishers and see what initial ground work
>  would need to take place i.e. number of expected peoples etc. I'll
>  email my results back to list. Just as not to waste my time, if I
>  get a positive response from the publishers (I can dream) how many
>  Oz listers would be interested and where if at all would you travel
>  to if it could only be done at one location for Oz? just email me
>  off-list.
>
>  Regards, 
>
>  Brad 
>
>
>	"Alex Loke" <nerf@alphalink.com.au> 
>	 Sent by: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu 
>	 24/04/2002 02:01 PM 
>	 Please respond to FEISTFANS-L 
>
>		
>		 To:        <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L) 
>		 cc:         
>		 Subject:        Re: Tour - Oz people 
>
>
>
>
>  >well how many from Oz are on the list, maybe we should bump heads together
>  and write to the publisher about organising a "drink with" or "dinner with
>  Ray" any >takers wanna see what we can come up with?
>
>  Might be a good idea. Last time Ray came around we tried a feistfans
>  gathering which didn't really get going. If anyone is willing to organise
>  something, and we can convince the publisher of that then I'm definitely in.
>  Otherwise, a meeting of just us feistfans might be an interesting idea -
>  just to put faces to names.
>
>  Regards,
>
>  Alex Loke
>  nerf@alphalink.com.au
>
>  <INSERT WITTY LINE HERE>

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From: "Wouter Durnez" <arutha_of_krondor@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Raybegone
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 14:46:12 +0000
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*** EOOH ***
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From: "Wouter Durnez" <arutha_of_krondor@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Raybegone
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 14:46:12 +0000
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Yup, must be quite annoying, when you're famous. Well, not thÃ¡t annoying 
:-)


>From: "Paddyjack [ ]" <erykel@lycos.com>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
>Subject: Re: Raybegone
>Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 15:41:49 -0400
>
>  I'm not Ray, but reading his "program" description, I'm not sure if I was 
>him that I would take too much of my time to stop for fans...:-)
>
>Have a nice vacations :-)
>Paddyjack
>
>--
>
>On Tue, 23 Apr 2002 21:13:49
>  Myecho32 wrote:
> >How long will you be in Vegas and will you make any stops for fans?
> >
> >I assist in running a gallery in Caesars any chance you can stop by?
> >
>
>
>See Dave Matthews Band live or win a signed guitar
>http://r.lycos.com/r/bmgfly_mail_dmb/http://win.ipromotions.com/lycos_020201/splash.asp
>




_________________________________________________________________
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From: "Wouter Durnez" <arutha_of_krondor@hotmail.com>
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Subject: RE: secret handshake
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From: "Wouter Durnez" <arutha_of_krondor@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: secret handshake
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 14:43:51 +0000
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Hey man, I'm not an outsider, I'm on this list, right? And I just looooooove 
ceremonies, so bring it on! Do it for an oooooold Feistfan, will ya?


>From: "Michael Gibson" <mike@gibbyco.freeserve.co.uk>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
>Subject: RE: secret handshake
>Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 19:28:52 +0100
>
> > I won't tell anyone :) Come ooooooon, tell tell tell!
>
>You know the deal - if we tell you, we'll have to kill you.  It happened 
>back in
>'99 - an "outsider" almost learnt the handshake, and it always creates 
>bother
>with the local law enforcement.
>
>To learn the hand shake, you must first endure The Ceremony.
>
>Mike,
>Gibfish of the West
>
>"I hate odd weeks, and don't get me started on Tuesdays..."
>
>
> >
> > >From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
> > >Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > >To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
> > >Subject: Re: secret handshake
> > >Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 14:04:49 +0100
> > >
> > >shhhhhh!  *looks around cautiously*
> > >
> > >It's a secret...
> > >
> > >rip
> > >
> > >At 11:50 AM 4/24/02, Wouter Durnez wrote:
> > > >What hat?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >>From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
> > > >>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > > >>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
> > > >>Subject: Re: secret handshake
> > > >>Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 08:46:09 +0100
> > > >>
> > > >>And the hat.  Did I mention that hat?
> > > >>
> > > >>rip
> > > >>
> > > >>At 06:04 PM 4/23/02, Justin wrote:
> > > >>>is there really a secret handshake or
> > > >>>were you just joking richard? if there
> > > >>>isn't I think there should be or
> > > >>>something to let Ray know we're on the
> > > >>>list. But it could be a lot easier if we
> > > >>>just said "hi, i'm on the list!"
> > > >>>
> > > >>>Just an idea and question from Justin
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >_________________________________________________________________
> > > >MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
> > >http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at 
>http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.
> >
> >
>




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References: <005801c1ec39$1a771f70$2100a8c0@pengelley.com>
Subject: Re: secret handshake
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: secret handshake
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 10:21:55 -0500
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

He didn't....we used a nasty species of army ants that time.

> Bull Ants, how come you got off so easy?
> 
> David

> > > To learn the hand shake, you must first endure The Ceremony.
> > 
> > The Ceremony... Man, I still shudder at that memory... The 
> > place they put
> > the bull-ants, well, what can I say?
> > 
> > Cheers,
> > James
> > 
> 



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Subject: The Great Uprising
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 11:46:44 -0400
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From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: The Great Uprising
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 11:46:44 -0400
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Does anyone know if the Great uprising was the Uprising at the hands of the 
original (real) Murmandamus, or was it the uprising at the hands of the 
false Murmandamus just after the riftwar?

Also, does anyone know how many years separated the two events?

Thanks

Jimmy

_________________________________________________________________
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From: "Wouter Durnez" <arutha_of_krondor@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: secret handshake
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 16:25:08 +0000
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From: "Wouter Durnez" <arutha_of_krondor@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re: secret handshake
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 16:25:08 +0000
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Err, does anyone remember how this all started?


>From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
>Subject: Re: secret handshake
>Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 10:21:55 -0500
>
>He didn't....we used a nasty species of army ants that time.
>
> > Bull Ants, how come you got off so easy?
> >
> > David
>
> > > > To learn the hand shake, you must first endure The Ceremony.
> > >
> > > The Ceremony... Man, I still shudder at that memory... The
> > > place they put
> > > the bull-ants, well, what can I say?
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > > James
> > >
> >
>




_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com



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Subject: Re: The Great Uprising
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 13:11:54 -0400
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From: "Rich" <richse@eden.rutgers.edu>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: The Great Uprising
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 13:11:54 -0400
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I believe it was the oringinal.
Rich

----- Original Message -----
From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2002 11:46 AM
Subject: The Great Uprising


> Does anyone know if the Great uprising was the Uprising at the hands of the
> original (real) Murmandamus, or was it the uprising at the hands of the
> false Murmandamus just after the riftwar?
>
> Also, does anyone know how many years separated the two events?
>
> Thanks
>
> Jimmy
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
>



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From: John <john@crydee.com>
Subject: Re: Leather Magician
References: <002401c1eae0$17be35c0$fe79a8c0@IAIN>
 <Pine.OSF.4.30.0204241321070.1190-100000@student.uq.edu.au>
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Subject: Re: Leather Magician
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Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au> writes
>John Bunting - if he still reads his list mail - would be the best person
>to ask, as he seems to have the most feist-related stuff in the world.

Not seen him for what seems like ages <G>
>
>A leatherbound copy of Magician - this is curious - because while I've
>heard a lot about this kind of edition coming out, Ive never seen/heard of
>one existing...
>
I proposed the idea to HC UK for the 20th anniversary but no show IIRC
-- 
John

john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.

Raymond E Feist Ring
http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm



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Subject: Re: Leather Magician
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 <010901c1ebe2$68d48920$a16e0050@milamber>
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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: John <john@crydee.com>
Subject: Re: Leather Magician
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Paul Whitby <pjwhitby@ntlworld.com> writes
>I've got one, Easton Press produced them. two volumes Magician:Apprentice
>and Magican:Master. Got the Apprentice, waiting for a decent priced Master.
>
>Paul
>
Get the Master direct from Easton Press IIRC they were $49.95 new
>

-- 
John

john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.

Raymond E Feist Ring
http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm



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Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 14:10:56 EDT
Subject: Re: secret handshake
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In a message dated 4/25/2002 12:47:02 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
arutha_of_krondor@hotmail.com writes:


> Err, does anyone remember how this all started?

I think it was a way for Ray to identify List Members at an in-store- I dont 
know how it progressed (or would degenerated be a better word?) to this.

                                           Peace, 
                                                      Matt
"Lets Roll."- Todd Beamer
USA, Muthafacko!

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From: "Michael Gibson" <mike@gibbyco.freeserve.co.uk>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: secret handshake
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 19:52:47 +0100
Message-ID: <NGELLDNAEMBGGGHFAJPBCEALCLAA.mike@gibbyco.freeserve.co.uk>
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*** EOOH ***
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: "Michael Gibson" <mike@gibbyco.freeserve.co.uk>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: secret handshake
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 19:52:47 +0100
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

You had /ants/!?!  You were lucky.

Mike,
Gibfish of the West

"I hate odd weeks, and don't get me started on Tuesdays..."

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of James Young
> Sent: 25 April 2002 16:22
> To: FEISTFANS-L
> Subject: Re: secret handshake
> 
> 
> He didn't....we used a nasty species of army ants that time.
> 
> > Bull Ants, how come you got off so easy?
> > 
> > David
> 
> > > > To learn the hand shake, you must first endure The Ceremony.
> > > 
> > > The Ceremony... Man, I still shudder at that memory... The 
> > > place they put
> > > the bull-ants, well, what can I say?
> > > 
> > > Cheers,
> > > James
> > > 
> > 
> 
> 



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From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: secret handshake
Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 03:02:45 +0800
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*** EOOH ***
From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: secret handshake
Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 03:02:45 +0800
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

This is what I'm saying :)

David

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu 
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Michael Gibson
> Sent: Friday, 26 April 2002 2:53 AM
> To: FEISTFANS-L
> Subject: RE: secret handshake
> 
> 
> You had /ants/!?!  You were lucky.
> 
> Mike,
> Gibfish of the West
> 
> "I hate odd weeks, and don't get me started on Tuesdays..."
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of James Young
> > Sent: 25 April 2002 16:22
> > To: FEISTFANS-L
> > Subject: Re: secret handshake
> > 
> > 
> > He didn't....we used a nasty species of army ants that time.
> > 
> > > Bull Ants, how come you got off so easy?
> > > 
> > > David
> > 
> > > > > To learn the hand shake, you must first endure The Ceremony.
> > > > 
> > > > The Ceremony... Man, I still shudder at that memory... The 
> > > > place they put
> > > > the bull-ants, well, what can I say?
> > > > 
> > > > Cheers,
> > > > James
> > > > 
> > > 
> > 
> > 
> 
> 



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Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 15:21:36 EDT
Subject: Re: secret handshake
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*** EOOH ***
From: RBlackley@aol.com
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 15:21:36 EDT
Subject: Re: secret handshake
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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Yeah, rip was talking about what happens at a book signing and that involved 
"give the secret handshake" and this flew off
Richard

In a message dated 4/25/2002 12:46:59 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
arutha_of_krondor@hotmail.com writes:


> Err, does anyone remember how this all started?
> 


-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
"Wit is cultured insolence"
                         Aristotle
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Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 18:59:08 -0600
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: feistfans-l@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Republican suggests tax on sci-fi
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Heard about this today, found the article in full on a Star Wars
website.

Personally, I hope that this does not happen. If this does move forward,
I am certainly more than willing to sign a petition or whatever it takes
to stop this idiot.

And the man is, in every sense of the word, an idiot. To me, it's just a
bloody stupid excuse to cut even more funding from NASA out of the
Federal budget and trying to cash in on a potentially lucrative market.

Craig J. Ries

----------

5th District GOP hopeful wants sci-fi to aid NASA 
Williams sees tax on science fiction books as space funding solution 

04/22/02 
>From Staff Reports 

Michael Williams, a Republican candidate for the 5th Congressional
District seat, has a novel plan to fully fund NASA: Tax science fiction. 

Williams proposes a 1 percent "NASA tax" on science fiction books,
science fiction comic books, space sciences books and any other
space-related literature. 

The tax would also apply to "space, space-related, and science fiction
toys, puzzles and games," Williams said in a listing of his platform. 

Williams wants Congress to adopt a resolution establishing a "global
grand convention" that would ensure all inhabitants of Earth the same
basic rights found in the U.S. Constitution. 

His resolution would also require holding a constitutional convention
when 30,000 colonists have settled or been born "on the moon, Mars or
any other celestial body besides the Earth."



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Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 21:30:21 EDT
Subject: Re: Some funny Midkemia jokes.
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From: Gkhd11a@aol.com
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 21:30:21 EDT
Subject: Re: Some funny Midkemia jokes.
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richard.williamson@windriver.com (Richard Williamson)   
>Actually, I'm kind of annoyed.
>
>Gkhd11a, why didn't you properly attribute this?  You didn't
>write it, you got it from the hall of worlds.

Well, because half of it was mine, but the first half was written by Ryath 
(her Hall of Worlds screen name), and I should have said that.

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Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 11:42:05 +1000 (GMT+1000)
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From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: The Great Uprising
In-Reply-To: <F11iatzHAC7h6gU2vLV0000342e@hotmail.com>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 11:42:05 +1000 (GMT+1000)
From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: The Great Uprising
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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I always understood it to be the false (the one recounted in
Silverthorn/ADaS)

> Does anyone know if the Great uprising was the Uprising at the hands of the
> original (real) Murmandamus, or was it the uprising at the hands of the
> false Murmandamus just after the riftwar?
>
> Also, does anyone know how many years separated the two events?
>
> Thanks
>
> Jimmy
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
>
>

Thanks
Darragh
================================================
University of Queensland
Information Technology / Arts (History) student
[Email #1] s356179@student.uq.edu.au
[Email #2] squik@solutionone.com.au
[Web Site] http://hainsworth.ath.cx/~squik/
================================================



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From: "James & Celeste Matlock" <jmatlock@cox.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: secret handshake
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 19:01:50 -0700
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James & Celeste Matlock" <jmatlock@cox.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: secret handshake
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 19:01:50 -0700
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C'mon Bret think,

if he reverses his 6th and 7th moves you can use "Wiener Dog"
or "Happy Me".  You are right about him switching to "Everyone's
a Ham" though.  At that point you would have left two of your
corners wide open and if he manages to Pfitzer he'll get three 
consecutive moves.  Then you're done for.

Jim

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Bret Robideaux
> Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2002 10:02 PM
> To: FEISTFANS-L
> Subject: Re: secret handshake
> 
> 
> Hey speaking of which ... I think I've got a good start at it. Start 
> with "Atta-Boy", but after three moves switch to "Nothing Doing" (start 
> at the fifth move). Only two things stymie me on this ... if he reverses 
> his 6th and 7th moves or switches to "Everyone's a Ham" after move 4.
> 
> Give it a go and see what you can do.
> 
> Bret
> 
> Richard Williamson wrote:
> 
> > Tsk, Larry.
> > 
> > You weren't supposed to mention the "thing".
> > 
> > *rolls eyes*  Now everyone knows.
> > 
> > What theh ell, I'll bring the 3 Dice Mik board, and we can
> > have a go at working out a defence against 'Sorcerer's Bile'  
> > 
> > rip
> > 
> > At 02:52 PM 4/24/02, Larry Siegel wrote:
> > 
> >>Hey rip..
> >>
> >>Got the hat... got the handshake down... and I got the 
> 'thing'... we're all set.
> >>
> >>Actually we could all find our local entrances to the HoW... 
> and meet up at Sorcerer's Isle
> >>and rift over to the signing together...
> >>
> >>
> >>Larry
> >>
> >>My Homepage
> >>http://www.psihawk.com
> >>
> >>Raymond E. Feist FAQ
> >>http://www.psihawk.com/feist
> >>
> > 
> 



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Subject: Re: Republican suggests tax on sci-fi
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 21:06:23 -0500
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Republican suggests tax on sci-fi
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 21:06:23 -0500
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Williams, a registered MORON, is running in Huntsville's District.
Which is where NASA is a major employer, as is Boeing, not to
mention the U.S. Military (Redstone Arsenal).  Sci-fi entertainment
a major past time because of the affiliation with the aerospace
industries in the area.  There is a distinct conflict of interest
that.  This guy hasn't even survived his primary yet, alone against
a popular incumbent, and this kind of dribble in a congressional
seat full of physicists and computer science majors, isn't going to
get him votes.  And how he managed to pass the entrance exam into
UAH's grad school (one that is reasonably reputable) is beyond me.

-James, in Alabama's Third Congressional District

The full story may be found at the AL.com, April 22, Huntsville
Times section currently located at:

http://www.al.com/news/huntsvilletimes/index.ssf?/xml/story.ssf/html
_standard.xsl?/base/news/101949940424601171.xml

----- Original Message -----
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <feistfans-l@cornell.edu>
Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2002 7:59 PM
Subject: Republican suggests tax on sci-fi


> Heard about this today, found the article in full on a Star Wars
> website.
>
> Personally, I hope that this does not happen. If this does move forward,
> I am certainly more than willing to sign a petition or whatever it takes
> to stop this idiot.
>
> And the man is, in every sense of the word, an idiot. To me, it's just a
> bloody stupid excuse to cut even more funding from NASA out of the
> Federal budget and trying to cash in on a potentially lucrative market.
>
> Craig J. Ries



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 20:12:19 -0600
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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James Young wrote:
> 
> Williams, a registered MORON,

Well, great morons think alike (unfortunately), and I fear that even if
this guy goes nowhere, his idea will.

It wouldn't surprise me at all if somebody else, somebody actually in
Congress, takes a look at this and goes: "here's a (stupid) solution to
what we idiots believe is wasted money (with regards to NASA)".

Craig J. Ries



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*** EOOH ***
From: JEEPMONSTER69@aol.com
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 22:21:08 EDT
Subject: Re: Republican suggests tax on sci-fi
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In a message dated 4/25/2002 9:29:53 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
cries@yifan.net writes:


> Heard about this today, found the article in full on a Star Wars
> website.
> 
> Personally, I hope that this does not happen. If this does move forward,
> I am certainly more than willing to sign a petition or whatever it takes
> to stop this idiot.
> 
> And the man is, in every sense of the word, an idiot. To me, it's just a
> bloody stupid excuse to cut even more funding from NASA out of the
> Federal budget and trying to cash in on a potentially lucrative market.
> 
> Craig J. Ries
> 

Yeah...next they'll be putting postage on Emails, right? Don't believe 
everything that you hear on the Internet.

                                                 Peace,
                                                             Matt
"Lets Roll."- Todd Beamer
USA, Muthafacko!

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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 19:21:06 -0700
Subject: Re: Raybegone
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Tuesday, April 23, 2002, at 06:13 PM, Myecho32@aol.com wrote:

> How long will you be in Vegas and will you make any stops for fans?

Nope.

>
> I assist in running a gallery in Caesars any chance you can stop by?

>

As I got this after I got back,the answer is sort of academic.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.

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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 19:25:25 -0700
Subject: Re: Tour
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
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On Wednesday, April 24, 2002, at 12:15 AM, Susan wrote:

> Mr Feist
>
> I have not written since I signed on, as I just enjoy reading the 
> letters
> from your other fans. In this instance, I will go along with Reinhardt 
> and
> say that it would be good for you to visit our beautiful country, South
> Africa. I work in a government dept. and know of many fans who would 
> love to
> see you here ( like meeting god ). As for HarperCollins deciding whether
> it's cost effective or not, have they looked at the exchange rates 
> lately,
> whether it's rand/dollar or rand/pound. You could visit us with a wallet
> full of change and still live like a king.
>

It's basic,and has nothing to do with how well I could make out buying 
SA goods with AMerican dollars.  It has everything to do with how many 
books HarperCollins can sell in the market.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 20:34:58 -0600
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Republican suggests tax on sci-fi
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> Yeah...next they'll be putting postage on Emails, right? Don't
> believe everything that you hear on the Internet.

James Young posted the link. Check it out for yourself.
It came from a genuine website, which is for a real newspaper.

And you don't think the USPS would love the chance to tax e-mail?

Craig J. Ries



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Subject: (OT) Re: Republican suggests tax on sci-fi
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: (OT) Re: Republican suggests tax on sci-fi
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 22:05:43 -0500
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    That idea has been tossed around several times by various idiot
politicians, and has been regularly chucked out the window by anyone
with half an ounce of common sense.  This idea I believe will be no
different.  But the moron making the statement is a real person (and
a real idiot).  If you want to meet him, he is found at a local
Publix store not far from Huntsville, where he currently works, I
believe as Manager.

-James

> Yeah...next they'll be putting postage on Emails, right? Don't believe
> everything that you hear on the Internet.
>
>                                                  Peace,
>                                                              Matt
> "Lets Roll."- Todd Beamer
> USA, Muthafacko!
>
>



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Subject: (OT) Re: Republican suggests tax on sci-fi
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: (OT) Re: Republican suggests tax on sci-fi
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 22:15:34 -0500
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> > Yeah...next they'll be putting postage on Emails, right? Don't
> > believe everything that you hear on the Internet.

Of course not, much of the stuff on the internet is little more than
hearsay, and not valid as a sourse of information.

> James Young posted the link. Check it out for yourself.
> It came from a genuine website, which is for a real newspaper.

Aren't all websites genuine websites? :-P

Seriously though it is a valid site as far as news is concerned,
though I personally prefer the NYTimes and NPR's ME & ATC.

> And you don't think the USPS would love the chance to tax e-mail?

Oh sure they would, as would the first moron who origionally
suggested the idea way back in the early 90's I think it was.  There
was at one point an actual legitimate (in the sense that it wasn't a
hoax e-mail at the time) push to do exactly that, but it fell
through about a decade ago never even making it to the level of an
ammendment to a bill, and hasn't ever been successfully revisited by
any group.  The odds are in favor that it won't ever happen, no
matter what those hoax e-mails tell you every 2-3 weeks about it
being on a bill.  This type of idelogue legistlative agenda is
normal in many of the US state and national assemblies (congresses,
senates, houses, chambers, whatever), often evoking a lot of
response over an idea only supported by one or two loons who haven't
a clue what day of the week it is, let alone which reality they are
from.

-James (who regularly makes a point of checking on hoax validity).

(Yes I know this repeats some of what I said in my prior e-mail, but
I decided I didn't cover the issue enough, so those of you annoyed
at my double posting can let me hear about it).



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*** EOOH ***
From: JEEPMONSTER69@aol.com
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 23:15:21 EDT
Subject: Re: Republican suggests tax on sci-fi
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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In a message dated 4/25/2002 11:14:22 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
cries@yifan.net writes:


> James Young posted the link. Check it out for yourself.
> It came from a genuine website, which is for a real newspaper.
> 
> And you don't think the USPS would love the chance to tax e-mail?
> 
> Craig J. Ries
> 

I stand corrected.

                                           Peace,
                                                 Matt
"Lets Roll."- Todd Beamer
USA, Muthafacko!

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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 23:21:18 -0500
From: Bret Robideaux <bretr@alliances.org>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:0.9.4) Gecko/20011019 Netscape6/6.2
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: secret handshake
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Ummm, yes and no. I already thought of "Wiener Dog", but two moves into 
that and he has the right to skip a turn. Take a close look at the board 
at that point. You're in perfect position for the kill, anything he does 
opens a hole wide enough for a wiener dog to walk through. However, 
since you're now forced to move, you have to move out of position and he 
can counter any move you make. You can't even hope for a draw. The only 
advantage you have is to draw the game out until the time limit (where 
he'll have you on counters). This is fine for tournament play, if you 
can manage a win and draw against him in the other two games, and your 
win is under the time limit, you'll take the match ... but in tight 
tourneys taking a match 1-1-1 hurts your ranking.

It's true, I hadn't considered "Happy Me" until this afternoon (sucks 
when you get inspriration at work, I had to wait until I put the kids to 
bed to try it out). Here's what I found. Everything works cool until the 
4th move. If he throws a five or six on his next throw, he can rotate 
the board 90 degrees in either direction. Either direction and you're 
two turns from a loss. If he throws anything else, you're right, you can 
counter through to the win.

Bret

James & Celeste Matlock wrote:

> C'mon Bret think,
> 
> if he reverses his 6th and 7th moves you can use "Wiener Dog"
> or "Happy Me".  You are right about him switching to "Everyone's
> a Ham" though.  At that point you would have left two of your
> corners wide open and if he manages to Pfitzer he'll get three 
> consecutive moves.  Then you're done for.
> 
> Jim
> 
> 
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Bret Robideaux
>>Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2002 10:02 PM
>>To: FEISTFANS-L
>>Subject: Re: secret handshake
>>
>>
>>Hey speaking of which ... I think I've got a good start at it. Start 
>>with "Atta-Boy", but after three moves switch to "Nothing Doing" (start 
>>at the fifth move). Only two things stymie me on this ... if he reverses 
>>his 6th and 7th moves or switches to "Everyone's a Ham" after move 4.
>>
>>Give it a go and see what you can do.
>>
>>Bret
>>
>>Richard Williamson wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Tsk, Larry.
>>>
>>>You weren't supposed to mention the "thing".
>>>
>>>*rolls eyes*  Now everyone knows.
>>>
>>>What theh ell, I'll bring the 3 Dice Mik board, and we can
>>>have a go at working out a defence against 'Sorcerer's Bile'  
>>>
>>>rip
>>>
>>>At 02:52 PM 4/24/02, Larry Siegel wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Hey rip..
>>>>
>>>>Got the hat... got the handshake down... and I got the 
>>>>
>>'thing'... we're all set.
>>
>>>>Actually we could all find our local entrances to the HoW... 
>>>>
>>and meet up at Sorcerer's Isle
>>
>>>>and rift over to the signing together...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Larry
>>>>
>>>>My Homepage
>>>>http://www.psihawk.com
>>>>
>>>>Raymond E. Feist FAQ
>>>>http://www.psihawk.com/feist
>>>>
>>>>
> 



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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: Some funny Midkemia jokes.
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 09:02:55 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: Some funny Midkemia jokes.
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

At 02:30 AM 4/26/02, Gkhd11a@aol.com wrote:

>richard.williamson@windriver.com (Richard Williamson) 
>>Actually, I'm kind of annoyed. 
>> 
>>Gkhd11a, why didn't you properly attribute this?  You didn't 
>>write it, you got it from the hall of worlds. 
>
>Well, because half of it was mine, but the first half was written by Ryath (her Hall of Worlds screen name), and I should have said that. 

That's all right, then.  Always attribute!  Idiots like me tend to
misunderstand at the drop of a hat.

rip



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*** EOOH ***
From: "Jason Martin" <res0b95g@verizon.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: DO NOT OPEN ANYTHING FROM ME!
Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 01:09:26 -0700
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Ok, looks like I got hit by some virus or worm.  I didn't send this out on
purpose, and I have no idea where it came from.. Please if there is an email
on the list from me with an attachment, DELETE IT!  Do not open it.  Sorry
for the inconvienence.

Jason

PS> I even ran a Virus checker two days ago!
"Too much knowlege never makes for simple decisions."
                           Ghanima- Children of Dune



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Subject: Re: Leather Magician
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Iain" <iainp@btinternet.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Leather Magician
Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 09:20:07 +0100
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I have Spoken to Easton Press and they will mail catalogues to the UK.  Do
you know if both Master and Apprentice is still listed?



Iain.
------------------------
"The great thing about Glasgow is that if there's a nuclear attack it'll
look exactly the same afterwards."
-Billy Connolly.-


----- Original Message -----
From: "John" <john@crydee.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2002 6:36 PM
Subject: Re: Leather Magician


> Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au> writes
> >John Bunting - if he still reads his list mail - would be the best person
> >to ask, as he seems to have the most feist-related stuff in the world.
>
> Not seen him for what seems like ages <G>
> >
> >A leatherbound copy of Magician - this is curious - because while I've
> >heard a lot about this kind of edition coming out, Ive never seen/heard of
> >one existing...
> >
> I proposed the idea to HC UK for the 20th anniversary but no show IIRC
> --
> John
>
> john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
> http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.
>
> Raymond E Feist Ring
> http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm
>



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Subject: Re: Leather Magician
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References: <002401c1eae0$17be35c0$fe79a8c0@IAIN>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 10:35:45 +0200
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Kenneth Jones <killkenny@thos.co.za>
Subject: Re: Leather Magician
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Would anyone happen to have a URL for Easton Press?


At 09:20 AM 4/26/02 +0100, you wrote:
>I have Spoken to Easton Press and they will mail catalogues to the UK.  Do
>you know if both Master and Apprentice is still listed?
>
>
>
>Iain.
>------------------------
>"The great thing about Glasgow is that if there's a nuclear attack it'll
>look exactly the same afterwards."
>-Billy Connolly.-



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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Kenneth Jones <killkenny@thos.co.za>
Subject: Re: Leather Magician
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020426103504.00a10be0@elvandar.thos.co.za>
References: <005b01c1ecfb$4b7cc8a0$fe79a8c0@IAIN>
 <002401c1eae0$17be35c0$fe79a8c0@IAIN>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 10:41:17 +0200
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Kenneth Jones <killkenny@thos.co.za>
Subject: Re: Leather Magician
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Sorry I realised the stupidity of the question the second I sent the message!

Apologies

Regards,
Kenneth Jones

At 10:35 AM 4/26/02 +0200, you wrote:
>Would anyone happen to have a URL for Easton Press?
>
>
>At 09:20 AM 4/26/02 +0100, you wrote:
>>I have Spoken to Easton Press and they will mail catalogues to the UK.  Do
>>you know if both Master and Apprentice is still listed?
>>
>>
>>
>>Iain.
>>------------------------
>>"The great thing about Glasgow is that if there's a nuclear attack it'll
>>look exactly the same afterwards."
>>-Billy Connolly.-



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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Leather Magician 
Cc: Alan.Hargreaves@Sun.COM
From: Alan.Hargreaves@Sun.COM
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*** EOOH ***
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Leather Magician 
Cc: Alan.Hargreaves@Sun.COM
From: Alan.Hargreaves@Sun.COM
Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 19:07:17 +1000
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Has anyone else had frightening images of Kulgan and Meecham conjured up when 
reading this subject line?

alan.



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From: "Donal K. Fellows" <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
In-reply-to: <3CC8A65C.11DFDDAA@yifan.net> (cries@yifan.net)
Subject: Re: Republican suggests tax on sci-fi
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Donal K. Fellows" <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Republican suggests tax on sci-fi
Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 10:09:55 +0100
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"Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net> repeated from elsewhere:
> Williams proposes a 1 percent "NASA tax" on science fiction books,
> science fiction comic books, space sciences books and any other
> space-related literature. 

Why doesn't he propose putting a tax on fantasy-related products to
fund a trip to fairy-land while he's got that big legislative stick
out of its storage space?  <g>

Donal.
-- 
Donal K. Fellows, Department of Computer Science, University of Manchester, UK.
(work) fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk     Tel: +44-161-275-6137  (preferred email addr.)
(home) donal@ugglan.demon.co.uk  Tel: +44-1274-401017   Mobile: +44-7957-298955
http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~fellowsd/  (Don't quote my .sig; I've seen it before!)



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as a pre-addendum, I think it's about time we took this off-list.

Wouldn't want 3DM to become one of the banned subjects.  

In an instance of complete and total lunacy, timestamped 05:21 AM 4/26/02, 
the Usually Intelligent Bret Robideaux Filed the following by Proxy:

>Ummm, yes and no. I already thought of "Wiener Dog", but two moves 
>into that and he has the right to skip a turn. Take a close look 
>at the board at that point. You're in perfect position for the kill, 
>anything he does opens a hole wide enough for a wiener dog to walk 
>through. However, since you're now forced to move, you have to move 
>out of position and he can counter any move you make. You can't 
>even hope for a draw. The only advantage you have is to draw the 
>game out until the time limit (where he'll have you on counters). 
>This is fine for tournament play, if you can manage a win and draw 
>against him in the other two games, and your win is under the time 
>limit, you'll take the match ... but in tight tourneys taking a 
>match 1-1-1 hurts your ranking.

I've stopped playing those rules.  My own personal belief, and I
think I've got the data to prove it, shows that allowing draws
during tournament play unfairly promotes those of weaker skills,
or worse, those who play to the draw almost exclusively.  There
was that andro (Nur? Nurria?) who made it all the way to the 
quarts, at the Third Galactic, simply by playing to draw any game 
that made it past the sixth turn.
  
If I can get a quorum, I'm going to present a paper at the next
biennial, or maybe the one in Kiev next year at the latest, to 
suggest we adopt the "golden goal" variant.

Comments? (Off list!)

>It's true, I hadn't considered "Happy Me" until this afternoon 
>(sucks when you get inspriration at work, I had to wait until I 
>put the kids to bed to try it out).  

Do you guys have an Ikea near you?  They sell a carpet (2.5 x 3.5
meters) that I'm pretty sure was modeled on a 3 Dice Mik board.
Max /loves/ it.  I built some pieces out of MDF (medium density
fibre board), about 30cm on the side.  It's like playing chess-
in-the-park.  

>Here's what I found. 
>Everything works cool until the 4th move. If he throws a five or 
>six on his next throw, he can rotate the board 90 degrees in 
>either direction. Either direction and you're two turns from a 
>loss. If he throws anything else, you're right, you can counter 
>through to the win.

And now for the reason I used "lunacy" above...

What kind of bizarre, off-the-cuff no-account spades-playing set
of rules do you happen to be using, Bret.  In any case, add the
die change rules.  Substitute a four-sided for the six-sided, and
your opposite can no longer /get/ a five or a six.  *shrugs* And
don't go trying to remind me of the 1655-P addendum ('79, Moscovite)
which would prevent a die change, because it doesn't count in this
instance.  Happy Me, as-you-are-no-doubt-aware *snorts*, is an
inside variant of the Flint Offsides Offense rules, which 
/specifically/ disallow that addendum to prevent getting drawn 
into a Santa Cruz Slugfest or any other no-win or win-win outcome.

Rotate the board my butt.

rip



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On Fri, 26 April 2002, Alan.Hargreaves@Sun.COM wrote

> 
> Has anyone else had frightening images of Kulgan and
Meecham conjured up when 
> reading this subject line?
> 
> alan.
 
  Er..not til you mentioned it.   

 
  Anita (the soon to be homeless(again)Fish) 

 
  'Every happy ending needs to have a start.'

___________________________________________________________________
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To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Leather Magician 
Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 21:11:17 +0800
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From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Leather Magician 
Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 21:11:17 +0800
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You are a sick, sick man my friend. I am very concerned about your
mental well being now. Although, it does explain how Meecham handled
interrogations so well.

David

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu 
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of 
> Alan.Hargreaves@Sun.COM
> Sent: Friday, 26 April 2002 5:07 PM
> To: FEISTFANS-L
> Cc: Alan.Hargreaves@Sun.COM
> Subject: Re: Leather Magician 
> 
> 
> Has anyone else had frightening images of Kulgan and Meecham 
> conjured up when 
> reading this subject line?
> 
> alan.
> 



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The Legends of the Riftwar is just authorized fanfic *g*

*calculates to himself* so, to be able to write in Midkemia, you have to be 
an already-established author with a reasonable degree of sucess, and at the 
same time have to attract the interest of mr Feist somehow. I think i'll 
start writing...

David

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Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 14:52:42 +0100
X-PH: V4.1@cornell.edu (Cornell Modified) 
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: secret handshake
In-Reply-To: <F257rqFpyJUNsfNwxde00002c1a@hotmail.com>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 14:52:42 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: secret handshake
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Yeah.  Some guy named Feist wrote a book called "Magician".

rip

At 17:25 25/04/2002, you wrote:
>Err, does anyone remember how this all started?
>
>
>>From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
>>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>>To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
>>Subject: Re: secret handshake
>>Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 10:21:55 -0500
>>
>>He didn't....we used a nasty species of army ants that time.
>>
>>> Bull Ants, how come you got off so easy?
>>>
>>> David
>>
>>> > > To learn the hand shake, you must first endure The Ceremony.
>>> >
>>> > The Ceremony... Man, I still shudder at that memory... The
>>> > place they put
>>> > the bull-ants, well, what can I say?
>>> >
>>> > Cheers,
>>> > James
>>> >
>>>
>
>
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com



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Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 15:18:14 +0100
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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Andrea J Chee <andrea@bloodaxe.com>
Subject: Re: DO NOT OPEN ANYTHING FROM ME!
References: <002701c1ecf9$afaac220$73f34004@vz.dsl.genuity.net>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 15:18:14 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Andrea J Chee <andrea@bloodaxe.com>
Subject: Re: DO NOT OPEN ANYTHING FROM ME!
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

In article <002701c1ecf9$afaac220$73f34004@vz.dsl.genuity.net>, Jason
Martin <res0b95g@verizon.net> writes
>Ok, looks like I got hit by some virus or worm.  I didn't send this out on
>purpose, and I have no idea where it came from.. Please if there is an email
>on the list from me with an attachment, DELETE IT!  Do not open it.  Sorry
>for the inconvienence.

Nothing came through to me here. Must have got filtered along the way.

You may not even be infected. The most numerous virus I'm seeing at the
moment, at the rate of about a dozen a day, is called Klez. It not only
sends itself to people's addresses it finds on the infected machine, but
forges the sender to appear to be one of those addresses too. So you can
seem to send a virus when you haven't. 

It's quite conceivable that anyone who has been on the list concurrent
with you has both your address and the list address on their machine,
and could be infected. I've had a few hilarious copies that were
apparently from one of my addresses to another of my addresses, but
originating in Yugoslavia and South Africa. I even got one from one of
my dogs' email addresses (Bobster's been foolish enough to post to
Usenet from time to time)!

They're easy enough to spot once you differentiate them from spam. The
'return path' address in the headers is different to the forged 'from'
address, and it's the return path address that matches where the mail
actually originated and the message ID. That way you can tell if you are
infected, or if it's actually someone else so you can inform the
infected party.

If you don't feel confident handling them and want some help (assuming
you still have it), feel free to forward it to me complete with headers.
If you don't know how to forward with headers, forward it anyway - I
should at least be able to try identifying it for you, which will
probably make it clear if it's your machine that is infected. Send it
straight to my virus query address <virus@bloodaxe.com> if you want. Can
you tell I spend too much time playing with these beasties? ;-)

- ANDREA

-- 
^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^
                  ANDROMEDA - Internet Goddess
<andrea@bloodaxe.com>                    http://www.bloodaxe.com/
Bloodaxe's History Links:   http://www.geocities.com/Athens/5055/
The Loony Bin Archive:               http://www.theloonies.co.uk/



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From: "Wouter Durnez" <arutha_of_krondor@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: secret handshake
Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 14:42:40 +0000
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*** EOOH ***
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From: "Wouter Durnez" <arutha_of_krondor@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: secret handshake
Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 14:42:40 +0000
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Hah, you crack me up rip.


>From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
>Subject: Re: secret handshake
>Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 14:52:42 +0100
>
>Yeah.  Some guy named Feist wrote a book called "Magician".
>
>rip
>
>At 17:25 25/04/2002, you wrote:
> >Err, does anyone remember how this all started?
> >
> >
> >>From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
> >>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> >>To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
> >>Subject: Re: secret handshake
> >>Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 10:21:55 -0500
> >>
> >>He didn't....we used a nasty species of army ants that time.
> >>
> >>> Bull Ants, how come you got off so easy?
> >>>
> >>> David
> >>
> >>> > > To learn the hand shake, you must first endure The Ceremony.
> >>> >
> >>> > The Ceremony... Man, I still shudder at that memory... The
> >>> > place they put
> >>> > the bull-ants, well, what can I say?
> >>> >
> >>> > Cheers,
> >>> > James
> >>> >
> >>>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >_________________________________________________________________
> >Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
>




_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com



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X-PH: V4.1@cornell.edu (Cornell Modified) 
From: "Terri Lyn Layman" <terrilyn@fullnet.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Leather Magician 
Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 11:58:11 -0500
Message-ID: <000d01c1ed43$8e5f8160$df5efea9@ctlayman>
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*** EOOH ***
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: "Terri Lyn Layman" <terrilyn@fullnet.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Leather Magician 
Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 11:58:11 -0500
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Ehh... they don't strike me as the leather type.

More along the lines of antiqueing, drinking wine, and the like.

Now, if there's anyone with a secret leather thing, I'd bet money on
Carline.

-TerriLyn

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of
> Alan.Hargreaves@Sun.COM
> Sent: Friday, April 26, 2002 4:07 AM
> To: FEISTFANS-L
> Cc: Alan.Hargreaves@Sun.COM
> Subject: Re: Leather Magician
>
>
> Has anyone else had frightening images of Kulgan and Meecham
> conjured up when
> reading this subject line?
>
> alan.



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Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 15:11:39 EDT
Subject: Re: Leather Magician 
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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*** EOOH ***
From: RBlackley@aol.com
Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 15:11:39 EDT
Subject: Re: Leather Magician 
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

In a message dated 4/26/2002 5:24:25 AM Eastern Daylight Time, 
Alan.Hargreaves@Sun.COM writes:


> Has anyone else had frightening images of Kulgan and Meecham conjured up 
> when 
> reading this subject line?
> 
> alan.
> 


-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
"Wit is cultured insolence"
                         Aristotle
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From: RBlackley@aol.com
Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 15:16:20 EDT
Subject: Re: Leather Magician 
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

In a message dated 4/26/2002 1:30:17 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
terrilyn@fullnet.com writes:


> Ehh... they don't strike me as the leather type.
> 
> More along the lines of antiqueing, drinking wine, and the like.
> 
> Now, if there's anyone with a secret leather thing, I'd bet money on
> Carline.
> 
> -TerriLyn

I agree.  And also  Sharana of Kesh.
Richard
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                         Aristotle
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From: Nathan <nathan@irish4ever.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Leather Magician
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 12:58:53 -0700 (PDT)
From: Nathan <nathan@irish4ever.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Leather Magician
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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--- message from RBlackley@aol.com attached:

Sharana?
Maybe, but I think Gamina had surely some leather underwear. :P

 "It's about the most beautiful bottom I've ever seen."

Regards,
Father Nathan

PS. Just finished "Prince of the Blood" for the 3rd time.


_____________________________________________________________
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Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 16:20:07 EDT
Subject: Re: Leather Magician
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*** EOOH ***
From: RBlackley@aol.com
Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 16:20:07 EDT
Subject: Re: Leather Magician
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Wasn't Gamia sort of strict when it came to sex.  I recall her telling off 
Jimmy and Dash about treating a woman w/ respect. IIRC

Richard

In a message dated 4/26/2002 4:17:48 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
nathan@irish4ever.com writes:


> --- message from RBlackley@aol.com attached:
> 
> Sharana?
> Maybe, but I think Gamina had surely some leather underwear. :P
> 
> "It's about the most beautiful bottom I've ever seen."
> 
> Regards,
> Father Nathan
> 
> PS. Just finished "Prince of the Blood" for the 3rd time.


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Dan Quayle
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Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 17:39:16 +0200
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Organization: House Phoenix
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References: <002701c1ecf9$afaac220$73f34004@vz.dsl.genuity.net> <8Hmx8UAmGWy8Ew+F@bloodaxe.demon.co.uk>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 17:39:16 +0200
From: Caranorn Aglaredhel <caranorn@cmdnet.lu>
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Organization: House Phoenix
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; fr-FR; rv:0.9.4) Gecko/20011130 Netscape6/6.2.1
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: DO NOT OPEN ANYTHING FROM ME!
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Yep, I've received 8 such messages the past days (most were filtered by 
my server and I even opened one by mistake (no risk as it's no danger on 
a Mac)). At first I didn't notice the weirdness of the return addresses, 
but it became apparent when I forwarded a number of the cleaned messages 
to the mailing list affected (most went right through the yahoo mailing 
list, others were from people whom I know to be on that list). The only 
good about that situation is that this is a local group and the 
moderators know the people first hand and can phone them about the 
problem (one particular person sent the virus out 4 times, 3 to me 
directly after I had  tried to alert him to the infection).

I have never seen so many viruses go out at the same time, I bet this 
Klez (multiple variants) virus will break records, and it all started 
just a few days ago.

If you are affected or think you may be go check some of the known 
anti-virus web sites. In addition to the spam created, this virus may 
cause some private information leaks etc.

Marc aka Caran...

Andrea J Chee wrote:

>In article <002701c1ecf9$afaac220$73f34004@vz.dsl.genuity.net>, Jason
>Martin <res0b95g@verizon.net> writes
>
>>Ok, looks like I got hit by some virus or worm.  I didn't send this out on
>>purpose, and I have no idea where it came from.. Please if there is an email
>>on the list from me with an attachment, DELETE IT!  Do not open it.  Sorry
>>for the inconvienence.
>>
>
>Nothing came through to me here. Must have got filtered along the way.
>
>You may not even be infected. The most numerous virus I'm seeing at the
>moment, at the rate of about a dozen a day, is called Klez. It not only
>sends itself to people's addresses it finds on the infected machine, but
>forges the sender to appear to be one of those addresses too. So you can
>seem to send a virus when you haven't. 
>
>It's quite conceivable that anyone who has been on the list concurrent
>with you has both your address and the list address on their machine,
>and could be infected. I've had a few hilarious copies that were
>apparently from one of my addresses to another of my addresses, but
>originating in Yugoslavia and South Africa. I even got one from one of
>my dogs' email addresses (Bobster's been foolish enough to post to
>Usenet from time to time)!
>
>They're easy enough to spot once you differentiate them from spam. The
>'return path' address in the headers is different to the forged 'from'
>address, and it's the return path address that matches where the mail
>actually originated and the message ID. That way you can tell if you are
>infected, or if it's actually someone else so you can inform the
>infected party.
>
>If you don't feel confident handling them and want some help (assuming
>you still have it), feel free to forward it to me complete with headers.
>If you don't know how to forward with headers, forward it anyway - I
>should at least be able to try identifying it for you, which will
>probably make it clear if it's your machine that is infected. Send it
>straight to my virus query address <virus@bloodaxe.com> if you want. Can
>you tell I spend too much time playing with these beasties? ;-)
>
>- ANDREA
>




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From: Andrea J Chee <andrea@bloodaxe.com>
Subject: Re: Leather Magician
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2002 01:20:04 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Andrea J Chee <andrea@bloodaxe.com>
Subject: Re: Leather Magician
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

In article <f5.1afa86c3.29fb1077@aol.com>, RBlackley@aol.com writes
>    Wasn't Gamia sort of strict when it came to sex.  I recall her 
>    telling off Jimmy and Dash about treating a woman w/ respect. IIRC

Just because she thinks a woman should be treated with respect, it
doesn't follow that she's going to be straight-laced and prudish about
sex. It's certainly possible to respect your partner *and* have fun with
them! ;-)

- ANDREA

-- 
^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^
                  ANDROMEDA - Internet Goddess
<andrea@bloodaxe.com>                    http://www.bloodaxe.com/
Bloodaxe's History Links:   http://www.geocities.com/Athens/5055/
The Loony Bin Archive:               http://www.theloonies.co.uk/



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Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 20:55:37 EDT
Subject: Re: Leather Magician
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*** EOOH ***
From: RBlackley@aol.com
Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 20:55:37 EDT
Subject: Re: Leather Magician
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Yeah I realised how that sounded as soon as I had sent it, sorry if I 
offended anyone, what I meant was IIRC the way she said it was prudish and 
straight laced.
Richard 

In a message dated 4/26/2002 8:37:58 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
andrea@bloodaxe.com writes:


> 
> 
> In article <f5.1afa86c3.29fb1077@aol.com>, RBlackley@aol.com writes
> >    Wasn't Gamia sort of strict when it came to sex.  I recall her 
> >    telling off Jimmy and Dash about treating a woman w/ respect. IIRC
> 
> Just because she thinks a woman should be treated with respect, it
> doesn't follow that she's going to be straight-laced and prudish about
> sex. It's certainly possible to respect your partner *and* have fun with
> them! ;-)
> 
> - ANDREA
> 


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"We don't want to go back to tomorrow, we want to go forward."
Dan Quayle
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From: "Jason Martin" <res0b95g@verizon.net>
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Subject: Round 2
Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2002 01:28:51 -0700
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Jason Martin" <res0b95g@verizon.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Round 2
Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2002 01:28:51 -0700
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Well it looks like Round 2 of Klez is trying to get me again.  I can not
count how many stupid emails with attachments that I have gotten in the last
day!  Funny thing is it makes it look like I tried sending it.  I hope this
damn thing clears up soon.   Everytime I run my virus checker it comes up
empty, though it makes me kind of suspcious.

Jason

"Too much knowlege never makes for simple decisions."
                           Ghanima- Children of Dune



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Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2002 02:15:09 -0700
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From: Alan Kellogg <mythusmage@cts.com>
Subject: Re: Round 2
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2002 02:15:09 -0700
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Alan Kellogg <mythusmage@cts.com>
Subject: Re: Round 2
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

>Well it looks like Round 2 of Klez is trying to get me again.  I can not
>count how many stupid emails with attachments that I have gotten in the last
>day!  Funny thing is it makes it look like I tried sending it.  I hope this
>damn thing clears up soon.   Everytime I run my virus checker it comes up
>empty, though it makes me kind of suspcious.
>
>Jason

How old is your anti-virus software? It may need an update. At least 
some new virus definitions.

Trying to be helpful.

Alan

>"Too much knowlege never makes for simple decisions."
>                            Ghanima- Children of Dune

"Focus"
       Me
-- 
Writing Practice at: <http://www.gamingoutpost.com>



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Subject: Re: Round 2
Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 08:52:52 +1200
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Julie Wootten" <wootten@xtra.co.nz>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Round 2
Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 08:52:52 +1200
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Funny thing... I didn't have antivirus software on my computer for about
2 years.  Then I decided it was about time, purchased it, and felt kind of
cheated when it didn't turn up a single virus.  But it updates itself pretty
much every day, and in the last week has picked up 4 or 5 viruses
coming in from this list alone.

So the money was well spent after all.  I use Norton Antivirus 2002.

Julie.

> >Well it looks like Round 2 of Klez is trying to get me again.  I can not
> >count how many stupid emails with attachments that I have gotten in the last
> >day!  Funny thing is it makes it look like I tried sending it.  I hope this
> >damn thing clears up soon.   Everytime I run my virus checker it comes up
> >empty, though it makes me kind of suspcious.
> >
> >Jason
>
> How old is your anti-virus software? It may need an update. At least
> some new virus definitions.
>
> Trying to be helpful.
>
> Alan





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From: "Susan" <susanandderek@freemail.absa.co.za>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Tour
Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2002 11:26:50 +0200
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*** EOOH ***
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: "Susan" <susanandderek@freemail.absa.co.za>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Tour
Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2002 11:26:50 +0200
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Mr Feist

I dont want to seem to be on your case, although I am, but is there any way
that HarperCollins could do a survey of your South African market, to
establish how many books are sold. On a couple of visits to our local
shopping centre looking for "Honoured Enemy" at a shop called Exclusive
Books, I have been told that it has been sold out. I have now put in an
order and must wait a couple of weeks for it to arrive.

One quick question. Do you perhaps know when your next book will be released
here?

Thanking you

Derek


>
>It's basic,and has nothing to do with how well I could make out buying
>SA goods with AMerican dollars.  It has everything to do with how many
>books HarperCollins can sell in the market.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
>stupidity.
>


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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2002 16:33:02 -0700
Subject: Re: Tour
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Saturday, April 27, 2002, at 02:26 AM, Susan wrote:

> Mr Feist
>
> I dont want to seem to be on your case, although I am, but is there any 
> way
> that HarperCollins could do a survey of your South African market, to
> establish how many books are sold. On a couple of visits to our local
> shopping centre looking for "Honoured Enemy" at a shop called Exclusive
> Books, I have been told that it has been sold out. I have now put in an
> order and must wait a couple of weeks for it to arrive.

Again, I have nothing to say in the matter.  It's not a question of how 
fast I sell out there, rather how many books in a given period will sell.

Your best bet is to start with your local bookseller requesting me visit 
to HarperCollins SA, who in turn works it up to London.
>
> One quick question. Do you perhaps know when your next book will be 
> released
> here?
>

Soon.  Murder In LaMut is a May title in the UK/Export markets.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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References: <004701c1edc5$b51e8120$73f34004@vz.dsl.genuity.net> <a05100305b8f01c3f4445@[209.68.218.29]> <005301c1ee2d$8013ba00$b72d37d2@shaelynn>
Subject: Re: Round 2
Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 13:29:27 +1000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "A Gnome" <nightshadow@froggy.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Round 2
Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 13:29:27 +1000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

every now and then I install the anti-virus i have, scan my computer, then
remove it.. I have a slow computer and it slows it down even more. i just
continuously update the security patches for IE/Outlook etc and don't open
any attachments. Plus all email is directed via my uni server, which picks
up a lot of viruses.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Julie Wootten" <wootten@xtra.co.nz>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Sunday, April 28, 2002 6:52 AM
Subject: Re: Round 2


> Funny thing... I didn't have antivirus software on my computer for about
> 2 years.  Then I decided it was about time, purchased it, and felt kind of
> cheated when it didn't turn up a single virus.  But it updates itself pretty
> much every day, and in the last week has picked up 4 or 5 viruses
> coming in from this list alone.
>
> So the money was well spent after all.  I use Norton Antivirus 2002.
>
> Julie.
>
> > >Well it looks like Round 2 of Klez is trying to get me again.  I can not
> > >count how many stupid emails with attachments that I have gotten in the
> last
> > >day!  Funny thing is it makes it look like I tried sending it.  I hope
> this
> > >damn thing clears up soon.   Everytime I run my virus checker it comes up
> > >empty, though it makes me kind of suspcious.
> > >
> > >Jason
> >
> > How old is your anti-virus software? It may need an update. At least
> > some new virus definitions.
> >
> > Trying to be helpful.
> >
> > Alan
>
>
>



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From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Round 2
Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 13:38:16 +0800
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*** EOOH ***
From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Round 2
Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 13:38:16 +0800
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I've not seen one virus from this list that I remember. My ISP must be
doing a decent job of filtering them out. The ISP gets a decent shot
though as all my mail is forwarded from one provider to another before I
download it.

David

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu 
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Julie Wootten
> Sent: Sunday, 28 April 2002 4:53 AM
> To: FEISTFANS-L
> Subject: Re: Round 2
> 
> 
> Funny thing... I didn't have antivirus software on my 
> computer for about
> 2 years.  Then I decided it was about time, purchased it, and 
> felt kind of
> cheated when it didn't turn up a single virus.  But it 
> updates itself pretty
> much every day, and in the last week has picked up 4 or 5 viruses
> coming in from this list alone.
> 
> So the money was well spent after all.  I use Norton Antivirus 2002.
> 
> Julie.
> 
> > >Well it looks like Round 2 of Klez is trying to get me 
> again.  I can not
> > >count how many stupid emails with attachments that I have 
> gotten in the
> last
> > >day!  Funny thing is it makes it look like I tried sending 
> it.  I hope
> this
> > >damn thing clears up soon.   Everytime I run my virus 
> checker it comes up
> > >empty, though it makes me kind of suspcious.
> > >
> > >Jason
> >
> > How old is your anti-virus software? It may need an update. At least
> > some new virus definitions.
> >
> > Trying to be helpful.
> >
> > Alan
> 
> 



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From: "Wouter Durnez" <arutha_of_krondor@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Movie
Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 10:40:47 +0000
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*** EOOH ***
X-Originating-IP: [213.224.83.46]
From: "Wouter Durnez" <arutha_of_krondor@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Movie
Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 10:40:47 +0000
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Mr Feist,
Lord of the Rings was quite a succes, so maybe people all over the world are 
warmed up for movies about imaginary worlds.
Do you think that, someday, a movie is going to be made about the Riftwar?
Thanks.
Wouter

_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx



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From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Movie
In-Reply-To: <F1298C7wyfwjHNuQuN6000020df@hotmail.com>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 22:19:45 +1000 (GMT+1000)
From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Movie
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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*g*

I think you might want to look at the faq (www.psihawk.com/feist) for the
answer to that..

While I can't speak directly for Ray, I think the most probable answer is,
there would/will be if he get's thrown enough money *g*


> Mr Feist,
> Lord of the Rings was quite a succes, so maybe people all over the world are
> warmed up for movies about imaginary worlds.
> Do you think that, someday, a movie is going to be made about the Riftwar?
> Thanks.
> Wouter
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
> http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
>
>

Thanks
Darragh
================================================
University of Queensland
Information Technology / Arts (History) student
[Email #1] s356179@student.uq.edu.au
[Email #2] squik@solutionone.com.au
[Web Site] http://hainsworth.ath.cx/~squik/
================================================



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From: "Wouter Durnez" <arutha_of_krondor@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Movie
Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 13:08:26 +0000
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*** EOOH ***
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From: "Wouter Durnez" <arutha_of_krondor@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Movie
Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 13:08:26 +0000
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Damned! Sorry guys, and Mr.. Feist, of course. I had no idea there was a 
faq, so sorry for asking the questions you specifically asked not to ask. 
(that's a lot of asking)


>From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
>Subject: Re: Movie
>Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 22:19:45 +1000 (GMT+1000)
>
>*g*
>
>I think you might want to look at the faq (www.psihawk.com/feist) for the
>answer to that..
>
>While I can't speak directly for Ray, I think the most probable answer is,
>there would/will be if he get's thrown enough money *g*
>
>
> > Mr Feist,
> > Lord of the Rings was quite a succes, so maybe people all over the world 
>are
> > warmed up for movies about imaginary worlds.
> > Do you think that, someday, a movie is going to be made about the 
>Riftwar?
> > Thanks.
> > Wouter
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
> > http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
> >
> >
>
>Thanks
>Darragh
>================================================
>University of Queensland
>Information Technology / Arts (History) student
>[Email #1] s356179@student.uq.edu.au
>[Email #2] squik@solutionone.com.au
>[Web Site] http://hainsworth.ath.cx/~squik/
>================================================
>




_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 06:23:53 -0700
Subject: Re: Movie
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Sunday, April 28, 2002, at 03:40 AM, Wouter Durnez wrote:

> Mr Feist,
> Lord of the Rings was quite a succes, so maybe people all over the 
> world are warmed up for movies about imaginary worlds.
> Do you think that, someday, a movie is going to be made about the 
> Riftwar?
>

At this time I can't comment.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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References: <2FA448B2-5AAB-11D6-BC64-003065A8A644@bittersea.com>
Subject: Re: Movie
Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 23:19:59 +0930
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Mark Tonkin" <shadowfire@chariot.net.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Movie
Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 23:19:59 +0930
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Raymond Feist" <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Sunday, April 28, 2002 10:53 PM
Subject: Re: Movie


> 
> On Sunday, April 28, 2002, at 03:40 AM, Wouter Durnez wrote:
> 
> > Mr Feist,
> > Lord of the Rings was quite a succes, so maybe people all over the 
> > world are warmed up for movies about imaginary worlds.
> > Do you think that, someday, a movie is going to be made about the 
> > Riftwar?
> >
> 
> At this time I can't comment.
> 
> Best, R.E.F.

This was not the response that I was expecting.
I wonder what is going on ...

- MARK



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From: "Christopher Livingston" <Chrislivingston@btinternet.com>
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Subject: Re: Movie
Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 15:04:36 +0100
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Christopher Livingston" <Chrislivingston@btinternet.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Movie
Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 15:04:36 +0100
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So, yes then?


Chris 

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Raymond Feist" <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Sunday, April 28, 2002 2:23 PM
Subject: Re: Movie


> 
> On Sunday, April 28, 2002, at 03:40 AM, Wouter Durnez wrote:
> 
> > Mr Feist,
> > Lord of the Rings was quite a succes, so maybe people all over the 
> > world are warmed up for movies about imaginary worlds.
> > Do you think that, someday, a movie is going to be made about the 
> > Riftwar?
> >
> 
> At this time I can't comment.
> 
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
> 
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
> stupidity.
> 



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From: Wogan <wogan@iinet.net.au>
Subject: Re: Movie
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 22:27:41 +0800
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Wogan <wogan@iinet.net.au>
Subject: Re: Movie
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


> > On Sunday, April 28, 2002, at 03:40 AM, Wouter Durnez wrote:
> >
> > > Mr Feist,
> > > Lord of the Rings was quite a succes, so maybe people all over the
> > > world are warmed up for movies about imaginary worlds.
> > > Do you think that, someday, a movie is going to be made about the
> > > Riftwar?
> > >
> >
> > At this time I can't comment.
> >
> > Best, R.E.F.
>
>This was not the response that I was expecting.
>I wonder what is going on ...

This has been Ray's stock response for at least 2 years now (or at least it 
seems that way to me) so I wouldn't get too excited.




----
Wogan (wogan@iinet.net.au)



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Subject: Re: Movie
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Western Rhythm" <info@westernrhythm.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Movie
Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 22:56:22 +0800
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ie He can't comment because something may be in the works, and due to legal
informative reasons, he is not allowed to comment until a contract is signed
and completed and the information is released to the general public. IMHO

or it could be we can speculate all we wish cause its fun for him to watch
us squirm at a could be/maybe situation.... haha



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From: Tim Nicholas <tim@nicholas.net.nz>
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Subject: Re: Movie
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 02:59:10 +1200
From: Tim Nicholas <tim@nicholas.net.nz>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Movie
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On Sun, Apr 28, 2002 at 03:04:36PM +0100, Christopher Livingston wrote:
> So, yes then?

You can bet he can't comment on that either. As it happens, Ray often
says this. And not just about movies. I don't think you can read too
much into it. 

Tim

> 
> 
> Chris 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Raymond Feist" <raymond@bittersea.com>
> To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> Sent: Sunday, April 28, 2002 2:23 PM
> Subject: Re: Movie
> 
> 
> > 
> > On Sunday, April 28, 2002, at 03:40 AM, Wouter Durnez wrote:
> > 
> > > Mr Feist,
> > > Lord of the Rings was quite a succes, so maybe people all over the 
> > > world are warmed up for movies about imaginary worlds.
> > > Do you think that, someday, a movie is going to be made about the 
> > > Riftwar?
> > >
> > 
> > At this time I can't comment.
> > 
> > Best, R.E.F.
> > ----
> > 
> > Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
> > stupidity.
> > 
> 
> 

-- 
Tim Nicholas                          ||                      Cilix
Email: tim@nicholas.net.nz            ||       Dunedin, New Zealand
http://tim.nicholas.net.nz/           ||  Cell/SMS: +64 21 113 0399
"Grow up, Larry. You give me too much credit." - Linus Torvalds



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Subject: Signature
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 15:03:29 +0000
Subject: Signature
From: "Sylvain Guehl" <fenyxkell@demo.xandmail.com>
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Ray, it's been a quite long time since you came up with that signature
in your mails. Where does it come from ? (I guess it's yours, but how
did you come up with it ?)

Syl

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From: Joel Rosenberg <joelr@ellegon.com>
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Subject: GAF
Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 10:31:12 -0500
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*** EOOH ***
From: Joel Rosenberg <joelr@ellegon.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: GAF
Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 10:31:12 -0500
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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For those who haven't heard, George Alec Effinger -- a friend of mine and, I 
believe of Ray's, as well as one hell of a fine writer -- has died.

RIP, Piglet.  Dammit.



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 10:36:08 -0700
Subject: Re: Signature
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On Sunday, April 28, 2002, at 08:03 AM, Sylvain Guehl wrote:

> Ray, it's been a quite long time since you came up with that signature 
> in your mails. Where does it come from ? (I guess it's yours, but how 
> did you come up with it ?)
>  
> Syl
>  
>
>

I'm not sure, exactly, where it originated in this form.  The original 
quote came from Napoleon, "Never attribute to malice that which can be 
explained by incompetence."

I may have gotten it from Bob Heinlein, who had a strong military 
background.  I know I first heard it years ago, probably at a writers 
gathering or a convention.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 10:36:55 -0700
Subject: Re: GAF
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On Sunday, April 28, 2002, at 08:31 AM, Joel Rosenberg wrote:

> For those who haven't heard, George Alec Effinger -- a friend of mine 
> and, I
> believe of Ray's, as well as one hell of a fine writer -- has died.
>
> RIP, Piglet.  Dammit.
>
>
>
>

Just heard about ten minutes ago.  Very sad.

A gifted writer of unusual wit and style, whose works should have lifted 
him much higher than they did.  An original voice is stilled.

Best, R.E.F>
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
From: Gkhd11a@aol.com
Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 18:41:33 EDT
Subject: Re: Movie
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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       A movie on the Riftwar would be a big mistake, they would have to edit 
so much content out of it, the movie would lose a huge amount of substance, 
and while it might still be fun for us to watch it, I don't many other people 
would like it.  I could see a good movie comeing out of the Riftwar legacy 
since the emphasis is on action.  If they planned to only make one movie, 
then I would say make a movie out of Betrayal at Krondor.  Have the movie 
start right when Gorath and them get to the caslte, have them describe what 
had happend, and then quickly get past the third chapter (of the game).  I 
would want to put most of the 2-3 hours of the movie after that since that is 
where most of the plot and action is.

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*** EOOH ***
From: "Earl Borah" <earl@ncn.com>
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> You can bet he can't comment on that either. As it happens, Ray often
> says this. And not just about movies. I don't think you can read too
> much into it. 


His normal comment is more along the lines of "If someone offers me 
enough money, sure I'll let them do a movie."

But what he said this time:

> At this time I can't comment.

leads me to suspect there may be active inquiries or negotiations. If 
it happens, I'm sure we'll all be among the first of the general 
public to hear. If not, we'll probably never hear more than we just 
heard.

Then again, maybe he's just changing his stock answer...but this 
isn't the same stock answer he's used at times in the past.
-----
  "I dislike being wrong, and having to admit it publicly later. It's
  embarrassing, humiliating, and unnecessary. It would have been just
  as easy, and much more pleasant, to have been right in the first 
place."
    - Jack Richard, former Editor of Boardwatch Magazine



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 17:12:07 -0600
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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Gkhd11a@aol.com wrote:
> 
>      A movie on the Riftwar would be a big mistake, they would have to
> edit so much content out of it, the movie would lose a huge amount of
> substance,

Did you watch Fellowship of the Ring?

Atleast three whole chapters were cut, yet it was still a wonderful
movie.

We can't say for certain, one way or the other, whether Magician can be
turned into a movie (it might be best as a trilogy between the two books
as well) until it has been done.

Craig J. Ries



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*** EOOH ***
From: RBlackley@aol.com
Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 19:30:27 EDT
Subject: Re: Movie
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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You know we must have this conversation at least twice a year.
Richard

In a message dated 4/28/2002 7:29:27 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
cries@yifan.net writes:


> Gkhd11a@aol.com wrote:
> > 
> >      A movie on the Riftwar would be a big mistake, they would have to
> > edit so much content out of it, the movie would lose a huge amount of
> > substance,
> 
> Did you watch Fellowship of the Ring?
> 
> Atleast three whole chapters were cut, yet it was still a wonderful
> movie.
> 
> We can't say for certain, one way or the other, whether Magician can be
> turned into a movie (it might be best as a trilogy between the two books
> as well) until it has been done.
> 
> Craig J. Ries
> 
> 


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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 17:42:49 -0600
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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Yeah, we have it probably atleast once a month on the Dragonlance
newsgroup too. :)

Craig J. Ries



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 20:00:17 -0400 (EDT)
From: Falconer <florin@mux.net>
To: <feistfans-l@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Sun, 28 Apr 2002, Craig J. Ries wrote:

> Did you watch Fellowship of the Ring?
>
> Atleast three whole chapters were cut, yet it was still a wonderful
> movie.

Yeah. The point is NOT to make a movie that is the EQUIVALENT of the
novel, but rather an artistic rendition. This is something that has
allowed me to cope with PJ's movie--the idea that he is painting a picture
of sorts, of certain scenes from the books. So the fact that he cut out
Tom Bombadil I am totally happy with. How the heck can you portray him in
a movie? PJ would have screwed that up big time.

Of course, in my opinion he screwed up everything except Moria. Okay, I'll
give him props for the Last Alliance and the death of Boromir. For the
rest, it was an okay movie, and a horrible Lord of the Rings.

But, back to my point. I can enjoy, say, John Howe's art based on
Tolkien's novels and not say "it was okay but not as good as the book." Of
course. It is not meant to replace the book. It's just an artistic
rendition. In my opinion, movies based on novels should be treated the
same way. Regards.
--

Michael Falconer



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From: "Michelle Thomson" <chell_40@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Movie Screenplay
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Ray,

If you ever did finalise a deal for a movie, would you prefer to write the 
screenplay for it yourself, or would you allow a more experienced screenplay 
writer to write it with or without your help???

Cheers Michelle

PS This wasn't a question in the FAQ, I checked.

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*** EOOH ***
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From: "Michelle Thomson" <chell_40@hotmail.com>
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I don't wish to offend but who is in charge of updating the FAQ as it is 
slightly out of date, at least in the area of what book is coming out next.

It is still looking forward to BoK paperback in summer of 1999 and the next 
2 books of the Krondor series, which have already been released.

Next comes the Atlas of Midkemia, which this list has reciently ascertained 
won't really be happening for a while.

Then Conclave of Shadows, fine as I understand this is in the works and 
closer to being completed than the above.

And finally The Jigsaw Lady which was only really going to happen if Ray 
could find a buyer.

Therfore shouldn't this be changed to reflect the new books about to come 
out and in the works.  In saying that the post on the books published should 
also be updated.

As I said at the start I don't wish to offend the author of this great 
resorce, but this is meant to be on of the first stops for the fans for 
information such as this.  Surely it doesn't take that long to update a web 
page. (If it does, sorry I have no idea I've never had to do it but I figure 
it can't be too much harder than editing a large assignment)

Cheers,

Michelle

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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 18:55:50 -0600
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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Michelle Thomson wrote:
> 
> I don't wish to offend but who is in charge of updating the FAQ as it is
> slightly out of date, at least in the area of what book is coming out next.

Yeah, I brought this up recently and I think somebody volunteered to
update it, but haven't heard anything since.

Craig J. Ries



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 18:03:20 -0700
Subject: Re: Movie Screenplay
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Sunday, April 28, 2002, at 04:52 PM, Michelle Thomson wrote:

> Ray,
>
> If you ever did finalise a deal for a movie, would you prefer to write 
> the screenplay for it yourself, or would you allow a more experienced 
> screenplay writer to write it with or without your help???
>
> Cheers Michelle
>
> PS This wasn't a question in the FAQ, I checked.
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
> http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
>
>
>
>
They can't afford me.  I'd have to take a cut in pay to do a screenplay.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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From: Joshua Stanton <jasharkalain@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Movie Screenplay
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 18:48:07 -0700 (PDT)
From: Joshua Stanton <jasharkalain@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Movie Screenplay
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

So you'd let someone else write it (and possible botch
it) because they couldn't pay you enough to do it?  Is
money more important than quality?

This is not meant as a flame,
Joshua

--- Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com> wrote:
> They can't afford me.  I'd have to take a cut in pay
> to do a screenplay.
> 
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
> 
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be
> explained away by 
> stupidity.
> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness
http://health.yahoo.com



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 18:59:16 -0700
Subject: Re: Movie Screenplay
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Sunday, April 28, 2002, at 06:48 PM, Joshua Stanton wrote:

> So you'd let someone else write it (and possible botch
> it) because they couldn't pay you enough to do it?  Is
> money more important than quality?
>
> This is not meant as a flame,
>

Well, prepare to get flamed in return.

Look.  Many fans (and you obviously fall into this category) have an 
incredibly simplistic notion of how the real world works in the 
entertainment business.  You go to the movies, so you think you have 
some idea of how they're made.  You've watched some specials on the 
"making of" or seen a bio-pic about a famous Hollywood type.  You might 
even know what the hell a 2nd AD does or a 2nd Asst. Camera Operator, 
Best Boy, or Grip's duties are.

But that doesn't make you a flippin' expert.

What makes you think I have a damned clue how to write a decent 
screenplay?  You want to see how badly a famous author can screw up his 
own project?  Go rent Steve King's Maximum Overdrive.

Ya, I'd take the money (because I'm in tax hell thanks to a nasty 
divorce and I'd like to see my kids eat) and I'd let them hire a pro to 
do the screenplay (because he's almost certainly do a better job than I 
would) and I'd return to doing what I do, write novels.

Can I make it any clearer?

Sometimes I get why other writers don't bother to deal with fan 
questions, because sometimes they're more than merely annoying; they get 
downright insulting.

R.E.F.


----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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From: Joshua Stanton <jasharkalain@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Movie Screenplay
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 19:58:51 -0700 (PDT)
From: Joshua Stanton <jasharkalain@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Movie Screenplay
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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--- Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com> wrote:
> 
> On Sunday, April 28, 2002, at 06:48 PM, Joshua
> Stanton wrote:
> 
> > So you'd let someone else write it (and possible
> botch
> > it) because they couldn't pay you enough to do it?
>  Is
> > money more important than quality?
> >
> > This is not meant as a flame,
> >
> 
> Well, prepare to get flamed in return.
> 
> Look.  Many fans (and you obviously fall into this
> category) have an 
> incredibly simplistic notion of how the real world
> works in the 
> entertainment business.  You go to the movies, so
> you think you have 
> some idea of how they're made.  You've watched some
> specials on the 
> "making of" or seen a bio-pic about a famous
> Hollywood type.  You might 
> even know what the hell a 2nd AD does or a 2nd Asst.
> Camera Operator, 
> Best Boy, or Grip's duties are.

I never said I knew anything.  And I don't.  And I
didn't ask about that either.  I only wondered how big
of an issue money was to you.  (Which is where I went
wrong.)

> But that doesn't make you a flippin' expert.
> 
> What makes you think I have a damned clue how to
> write a decent 
> screenplay?  You want to see how badly a famous
> author can screw up his 
> own project?  Go rent Steve King's Maximum
> Overdrive.

I totally understand this.  But what you said was,
"They can't afford me." which to me (and I think I am
not totally alone) implies that you might in fact know
how to write a good screenplay, but will not do it
because "they can't afford" you.  Obviously my
assumption was bad, and I appologize.  Actually, I
don't appologize for that.  I appologize for asking
the question in the first place, because it was
obviously not a matter discussed with fans.

> Ya, I'd take the money (because I'm in tax hell
> thanks to a       
> divorce and I'd like to see my kids eat) and I'd let
> them hire a pro to 
> do the screenplay (because he's almost certainly do
> a better job than I 
> would) and I'd return to doing what I do, write
> novels.

Sounds just fine to me.  I can hardly wait for the
next books.
 
> Can I make it any clearer?
> 
> Sometimes I get why other writers don't bother to
> deal with fan 
> questions, because sometimes they're more than
> merely annoying; they get 
> downright insulting.

Well, I for one thank you for dealing with us stupid
fans.  I've wondered more than once how you can stand
us.  <g>

> 
> R.E.F.
> 
> 
> ----
> 
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be
> explained away by 
> stupidity.
> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness
http://health.yahoo.com



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Subject: Re: Movie
Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 22:33:46 -0500
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Movie
Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 22:33:46 -0500
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Which is why it was placed on the Banned topics list.  UNTIL such
time as a movie actually exists.  REF saying "I can say nothing at
this time" is not conclusive enough evidence to suggest that it is
time to repeal the ban.

-James

----- Original Message -----
From: <RBlackley@aol.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Sunday, April 28, 2002 6:30 PM
Subject: Re: Movie


> You know we must have this conversation at least twice a year.
> Richard
>
> In a message dated 4/28/2002 7:29:27 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> cries@yifan.net writes:
>
>
> > Gkhd11a@aol.com wrote:
> > >
> > >      A movie on the Riftwar would be a big mistake, they would have to
> > > edit so much content out of it, the movie would lose a huge amount of
> > > substance,
> >
> > Did you watch Fellowship of the Ring?
> >
> > Atleast three whole chapters were cut, yet it was still a wonderful
> > movie.
> >
> > We can't say for certain, one way or the other, whether Magician can be
> > turned into a movie (it might be best as a trilogy between the two books
> > as well) until it has been done.
> >
> > Craig J. Ries
> >
> >
>
>
> -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
> "We don't want to go back to tomorrow, we want to go forward."
> Dan Quayle
> -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
>



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Subject: Re: FAQ
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: FAQ
Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 22:36:55 -0500
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Ask James and Larry, they had said they were going to do it, and I
suspect that they will, though I think this time of year for a lot
of people is bad for doing much of anything.  Particularly Parents
and Uni. students.  I wouldn't expect them to have it completely
updated in a flash either, since there is a lot to update.

-James

----- Original Message -----
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Sunday, April 28, 2002 7:55 PM
Subject: Re: FAQ


> Michelle Thomson wrote:
> >
> > I don't wish to offend but who is in charge of updating the FAQ as it is
> > slightly out of date, at least in the area of what book is coming out next.
>
> Yeah, I brought this up recently and I think somebody volunteered to
> update it, but haven't heard anything since.
>
> Craig J. Ries
>



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From: "Sean Gilliam" <seanRRLincoln@neb.rr.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Movie Screenplay
Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 07:26:49 -0500
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Sean Gilliam" <seanRRLincoln@neb.rr.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Movie Screenplay
Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 07:26:49 -0500
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I hope you don't feel this way about all of us. The fact that you
participate with this list is one of the many reasons I love your work. Now
if you quit the list I would still buy your books but having you available
to answer questions is great!

-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Raymond Feist
>Sent: Sunday, April 28, 2002 8:59 PM
>To: FEISTFANS-L
>Subject: Re: Movie Screenplay
>
>
>
>On Sunday, April 28, 2002, at 06:48 PM, Joshua Stanton wrote:
>
>> So you'd let someone else write it (and possible botch
>> it) because they couldn't pay you enough to do it?  Is
>> money more important than quality?
>>
>> This is not meant as a flame,
>>
>
>Well, prepare to get flamed in return.
>
>Look.  Many fans (and you obviously fall into this category) have an
>incredibly simplistic notion of how the real world works in the
>entertainment business.  You go to the movies, so you think you have
>some idea of how they're made.  You've watched some specials on the
>"making of" or seen a bio-pic about a famous Hollywood type.  You might
>even know what the hell a 2nd AD does or a 2nd Asst. Camera Operator,
>Best Boy, or Grip's duties are.
>
>But that doesn't make you a flippin' expert.
>
>What makes you think I have a damned clue how to write a decent
>screenplay?  You want to see how badly a famous author can screw up his
>own project?  Go rent Steve King's Maximum Overdrive.
>
>Ya, I'd take the money (because I'm in tax hell thanks to a nasty
>divorce and I'd like to see my kids eat) and I'd let them hire a pro to
>do the screenplay (because he's almost certainly do a better job than I
>would) and I'd return to doing what I do, write novels.
>
>Can I make it any clearer?
>
>Sometimes I get why other writers don't bother to deal with fan
>questions, because sometimes they're more than merely annoying; they get
>downright insulting.
>
>R.E.F.
>
>
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
>stupidity.
>



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 06:45:32 -0700
Subject: Re: Movie Screenplay
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Monday, April 29, 2002, at 05:26 AM, Sean Gilliam wrote:

> I hope you don't feel this way about all of us. The fact that you
> participate with this list is one of the many reasons I love your work. 
> Now
> if you quit the list I would still buy your books but having you 
> available
> to answer questions is great!
>

I don't feel this way about all of you any one way.

I just get very irritated with the "all you care about is money," tone 
of some messages when people have zero idea of what I can or can't do in 
terms of quality control on a film.  As if me writing the screenplay 
would guarantee a good movie.

You want to see a good adaptation?  Read The Princess Bride then watch 
the film.  But William Goldman is both a great novelist and a great 
screenwriter.  I'm not.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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From: "Sean Gilliam" <seanRRLincoln@neb.rr.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Movie Screenplay
Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 09:29:38 -0500
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Sean Gilliam" <seanRRLincoln@neb.rr.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Movie Screenplay
Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 09:29:38 -0500
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Money makes the world go round. People probably forget that writing is a
job. We may read for pleasure but everyone has to put food on the table. I
agree the Princess Bride was a great book as was the movie. IIRC did you
grow up around the movie industry?

-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Raymond Feist
>Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 8:46 AM
>To: FEISTFANS-L
>Subject: Re: Movie Screenplay
>
>
>
>On Monday, April 29, 2002, at 05:26 AM, Sean Gilliam wrote:
>
>> I hope you don't feel this way about all of us. The fact that you
>> participate with this list is one of the many reasons I love your work.
>> Now
>> if you quit the list I would still buy your books but having you
>> available
>> to answer questions is great!
>>
>
>I don't feel this way about all of you any one way.
>
>I just get very irritated with the "all you care about is money," tone
>of some messages when people have zero idea of what I can or can't do in
>terms of quality control on a film.  As if me writing the screenplay
>would guarantee a good movie.
>
>You want to see a good adaptation?  Read The Princess Bride then watch
>the film.  But William Goldman is both a great novelist and a great
>screenwriter.  I'm not.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
>stupidity.
>



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 07:51:02 -0700
Subject: Re: Movie Screenplay
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Monday, April 29, 2002, at 07:29 AM, Sean Gilliam wrote:

> Money makes the world go round. People probably forget that writing is a
> job. We may read for pleasure but everyone has to put food on the 
> table. I
> agree the Princess Bride was a great book as was the movie. IIRC did you
> grow up around the movie industry?
>

My father was a feature film and TV director/producer/writer. I stepped 
on my first soundstage when I was eight years old.  I was an apprentice  
film editor at 20th Century Fox in 1966.  Ya, you could say I grew up in 
the business.  I've read a lot of screenplays.  BTW, if you want to see 
a great one, a lot of libraries have copies of the screenplay Coppola 
did for Patton.  It's great and shows you how a good one should be done.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Movie Screenplay
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 01:15:48 +1000 (GMT+1000)
From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Movie Screenplay
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

> On Monday, April 29, 2002, at 05:26 AM, Sean Gilliam wrote:
>
> > I hope you don't feel this way about all of us. The fact that you
> > participate with this list is one of the many reasons I love your work.
> > Now
> > if you quit the list I would still buy your books but having you
> > available
> > to answer questions is great!
> >
>
> I don't feel this way about all of you any one way.
>
> I just get very irritated with the "all you care about is money," tone
> of some messages when people have zero idea of what I can or can't do in
> terms of quality control on a film.  As if me writing the screenplay
> would guarantee a good movie.
>
> You want to see a good adaptation?  Read The Princess Bride then watch
> the film.  But William Goldman is both a great novelist and a great
> screenwriter.  I'm not.
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
> stupidity.

This is my oppurtunity to plug a great adaption of the Australian book
"Looking for Alibrandi" by Melina Marchetta, into the movie which came out
about two years ago now (she also wrote the screenplay). Great book, great
adaption to film.

Thanks
Darragh
================================================
University of Queensland
Information Technology / Arts (History) student
[Email #1] s356179@student.uq.edu.au
[Email #2] squik@solutionone.com.au
[Web Site] http://hainsworth.ath.cx/~squik/
================================================



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From: "rob tavares" <vze26fdh@verizon.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Movie Screenplay
Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 11:16:59 -0400
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*** EOOH ***
From: "rob tavares" <vze26fdh@verizon.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Movie Screenplay
Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 11:16:59 -0400
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Leave movies to those that know movies, novels to those that know
novels. Ray rules as is, very few authors participate with their fans as
it is. I for one am thankful for his presence.

-Rob-

-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Raymond Feist
>Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 9:46 AM
>To: FEISTFANS-L
>Subject: Re: Movie Screenplay
>
>
>On Monday, April 29, 2002, at 05:26 AM, Sean Gilliam wrote:
>
>> I hope you don't feel this way about all of us. The fact that you
>> participate with this list is one of the many reasons I love your work. 
>> Now
>> if you quit the list I would still buy your books but having you 
>> available
>> to answer questions is great!
>>
>
>I don't feel this way about all of you any one way.
>
>I just get very irritated with the "all you care about is money," tone 
>of some messages when people have zero idea of what I can or can't do in
>
>terms of quality control on a film.  As if me writing the screenplay 
>would guarantee a good movie.
>
>You want to see a good adaptation?  Read The Princess Bride then watch 
>the film.  But William Goldman is both a great novelist and a great 
>screenwriter.  I'm not.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
>stupidity.
>


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From: Joel Rosenberg <joelr@ellegon.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Movie Screenplay
Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 10:48:42 -0500
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*** EOOH ***
From: Joel Rosenberg <joelr@ellegon.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Movie Screenplay
Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 10:48:42 -0500
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

On Monday 29 April 2002 08:45 am, you wrote:
> On Monday, April 29, 2002, at 05:26 AM, Sean Gilliam wrote:
> > I hope you don't feel this way about all of us. The fact that you
> > participate with this list is one of the many reasons I love your work.
> > Now
> > if you quit the list I would still buy your books but having you
> > available
> > to answer questions is great!
>
> I don't feel this way about all of you any one way.
>
> I just get very irritated with the "all you care about is money," tone
> of some messages when people have zero idea of what I can or can't do in
> terms of quality control on a film.  As if me writing the screenplay
> would guarantee a good movie.

My theory -- and knowing as little as I do about Hollywood, it may be a silly 
theory -- the right job for most writers on an adaptation of their work is as 
a respected advisor to the producer/director, rather than a screenwriter.  
There's some -- a lot -- of stuff about your books that you may well 
understand the importance of better than even a very clueful p/d, and would 
likely catch your eye.  

Then again, there's Ernest Hemingway's and Louis L'Amour's advice, which 
basically comes down to "sell the rights, and then just go away and don't 
think about it anymore."  

>
> You want to see a good adaptation?  Read The Princess Bride then watch
> the film.  But William Goldman is both a great novelist and a great
> screenwriter.  I'm not.

And even Goldman has his off days.  As far as I can tell, every decision he 
made in The Princess Bride script were right -- the frame story from the book 
would have gotten in the way, for example -- but there are multiple moments 
in his Maverick script that are brain-damaged almost beyond belief.  

But yeah, I don't know of anybody near as good as Goldman at the triple crown 
of novel-writing, adaptation, and screenwriting, and he's worked long and 
hard at all three crafts.  



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From: "Wouter Durnez" <arutha_of_krondor@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Movie
Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 16:06:01 +0000
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*** EOOH ***
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From: "Wouter Durnez" <arutha_of_krondor@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Movie
Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 16:06:01 +0000
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Mr.. Feist (can I call you Ray, like everyone else? :-) ), please don't 
think that we don't appreciate it, when you answer our questions. I know, 
sometimes we can be a bit of a burden, but don't quit the list because of a 
nasty mail. And about the movie, I understand that you're in a difficult 
position to comment that subject, so I'll only ask one thing. Please let us 
be among the first to know, if it is certain that there will be a movie.
Thanks
  Wouter

_________________________________________________________________
Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
http://www.hotmail.com



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 09:26:20 -0700
Subject: Re: Movie Screenplay
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Monday, April 29, 2002, at 08:48 AM, Joel Rosenberg wrote:

> On Monday 29 April 2002 08:45 am, you wrote:
>> On Monday, April 29, 2002, at 05:26 AM, Sean Gilliam wrote:
>>> I hope you don't feel this way about all of us. The fact that you
>>> participate with this list is one of the many reasons I love your 
>>> work.
>>> Now
>>> if you quit the list I would still buy your books but having you
>>> available
>>> to answer questions is great!
>>
>> I don't feel this way about all of you any one way.
>>
>> I just get very irritated with the "all you care about is money," tone
>> of some messages when people have zero idea of what I can or can't do 
>> in
>> terms of quality control on a film.  As if me writing the screenplay
>> would guarantee a good movie.
>
> My theory -- and knowing as little as I do about Hollywood, it may be a 
> silly
> theory -- the right job for most writers on an adaptation of their work 
> is as
> a respected advisor to the producer/director, rather than a 
> screenwriter.
> There's some -- a lot -- of stuff about your books that you may well
> understand the importance of better than even a very clueful p/d, and 
> would
> likely catch your eye.
>
> Then again, there's Ernest Hemingway's and Louis L'Amour's advice, which
> basically comes down to "sell the rights, and then just go away and 
> don't
> think about it anymore."
>
>>
>> You want to see a good adaptation?  Read The Princess Bride then watch
>> the film.  But William Goldman is both a great novelist and a great
>> screenwriter.  I'm not.
>
> And even Goldman has his off days.  As far as I can tell, every 
> decision he
> made in The Princess Bride script were right -- the frame story from 
> the book
> would have gotten in the way, for example -- but there are multiple 
> moments
> in his Maverick script that are brain-damaged almost beyond belief.

Goldman had to deal with two huge egos on that one, Gibson's and 
Foster's.  If the Foster character had been played by someone else and 
had been relegated to a secondary level, the scam part of the story 
would have developed earlier.  Or they could have dropped the whole scam 
aspect and made it a straight "tag" story about who ends up with the 
money at the end, which would have been Foster in the bath scene.
>
> But yeah, I don't know of anybody near as good as Goldman at the triple 
> crown
> of novel-writing, adaptation, and screenwriting, and he's worked long 
> and
> hard at all three crafts.
>
>
>

I'm just sorry he gave up on novels, but when you're making $10,000 a 
pop for award winning novels and $500,000 a pop for a screenplay, it 
doesn't take brains to make novels the hobby and screenwriting the way 
to make the rent.

Resnick's of the opinion that brother James was the better writer, on 
the strength mostly of The Lion in Winter, but it's hard to compare.  
They've collaborated, mostly on TV (most people don't know they did  
Family Affair scripts and  Stanley Poole), but James mostly did theater 
(though he's done some fine novels, Myself as Witness springs to mind, 
and shorts), including musicals, Follies  and Evening Primrose with 
Stephen Sondhiem.  I think William was the better novelist, but James 
was a fine playwright.  He had just finished the script for the musical 
based on Fieldings' Tom Jones when he died in '98.  A pity, as he 
probably had a lot of good stories left in him.



Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 09:28:15 -0700
Subject: Re: Movie
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Monday, April 29, 2002, at 09:06 AM, Wouter Durnez wrote:

> Mr.. Feist (can I call you Ray, like everyone else? :-) ), please don't 
> think that we don't appreciate it, when you answer our questions. I 
> know, sometimes we can be a bit of a burden, but don't quit the list 
> because of a nasty mail. And about the movie, I understand that you're 
> in a difficult position to comment that subject, so I'll only ask one 
> thing. Please let us be among the first to know, if it is certain that 
> there will be a movie.
> Thanks
>

I'm not thinking of quitting the list.  And Jason's note wasn't "nasty," 
rather it was ill thought-out.  He's usually one of the better posters 
on the list.

I just get tired of the "if you let someone else do it, you must only be 
in it for the money" tone that pops up.  Not all writers are as 
anal-retentive and control freakish as many fans appear to be.

Anyone who has read the original Frank Herbert screenplay for Dune would 
instantly realize that many times the author of the book is the last 
person you want adapting it to film.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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From: "Earl Borah" <earl@ncn.com>
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> Anyone who has read the original Frank Herbert screenplay for Dune would 
> instantly realize that many times the author of the book is the last 
> person you want adapting it to film.

Have you tried writing a screenplay before, and decided you're not good at it? 
Or did you just decide that, knowing what you know about movie making, your 
skills wouldn't translate to screenwriting?

I find it rare that someone has a realistic grasp of what they are truly good 
at and what they're not. Most of us tend to either overestimate our abilities 
and get in over our heads, or underestimate them and end up never really 
challenging ourselves.
  - Earl Borah
-----
  If a man speaks in a forest and a woman isn't there to hear it,
  is he still wrong?              (author unknown)



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From: Joel Rosenberg <joelr@ellegon.com>
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Subject: Re: Movie
Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 12:18:48 -0500
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*** EOOH ***
From: Joel Rosenberg <joelr@ellegon.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Movie
Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 12:18:48 -0500
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On Monday 29 April 2002 11:56 am, you wrote:
> > Anyone who has read the original Frank Herbert screenplay for Dune would
> > instantly realize that many times the author of the book is the last
> > person you want adapting it to film.
>
> Have you tried writing a screenplay before, and decided you're not good at
> it? Or did you just decide that, knowing what you know about movie making,
> your skills wouldn't translate to screenwriting?
>
> I find it rare that someone has a realistic grasp of what they are truly
> good at and what they're not. Most of us tend to either overestimate our
> abilities and get in over our heads, or underestimate them and end up never
> really challenging ourselves.
>   - Earl Borah
> -----
>   If a man speaks in a forest and a woman isn't there to hear it,
>   is he still wrong?              (author unknown)

Well, Ray can speak for himself, but I think I know why he might not want to 
write the screenplay; applies to me, too, for that matter.

1.  Writing is hard work.  Doing hard work that you might get paid for is 
usually less interesting than doing hard work that you will be paid for, and 
almost certainly paid better for.  

2.  The way the book-to-movie business works is -- only a slight 
oversimplification -- that the writer sells an option to make a movie to the 
production company.  The production company then has the right to hire 
somebody to write the script.  The production company *may* be interested in 
a really terrific script, already in hand, but the odds are against it, 
unless the writer has a lot of script writing credits, and the negotiations 
would be very one-sided.



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From: "Wouter Durnez" <arutha_of_krondor@hotmail.com>
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I didn't really mean nasty, and I'm sorry if that was offensive. Since my 
English isn't all that great, it may occur that I have some difficulties 
expressing myself in the exact same way I'm thinking about something. And 
since I live in Belgium, I don't think you can blame me for that. But I 
think you understood what I meant, right?


>From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
>Subject: Re: Movie
>Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 09:28:15 -0700
>
>
>On Monday, April 29, 2002, at 09:06 AM, Wouter Durnez wrote:
>
>>Mr.. Feist (can I call you Ray, like everyone else? :-) ), please don't
>>think that we don't appreciate it, when you answer our questions. I
>>know, sometimes we can be a bit of a burden, but don't quit the list
>>because of a nasty mail. And about the movie, I understand that you're
>>in a difficult position to comment that subject, so I'll only ask one
>>thing. Please let us be among the first to know, if it is certain that
>>there will be a movie.
>>Thanks
>>
>
>I'm not thinking of quitting the list.  And Jason's note wasn't "nasty,"
>rather it was ill thought-out.  He's usually one of the better posters
>on the list.
>
>I just get tired of the "if you let someone else do it, you must only be
>in it for the money" tone that pops up.  Not all writers are as
>anal-retentive and control freakish as many fans appear to be.
>
>Anyone who has read the original Frank Herbert screenplay for Dune would
>instantly realize that many times the author of the book is the last
>person you want adapting it to film.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
>stupidity.
>




_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx



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Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 10:26:56 -0700
Subject: Re: Movie
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
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On Monday, April 29, 2002, at 09:56 AM, Earl Borah wrote:

>> Anyone who has read the original Frank Herbert screenplay for Dune 
>> would
>> instantly realize that many times the author of the book is the last
>> person you want adapting it to film.
>
> Have you tried writing a screenplay before, and decided you're not good 
> at it?
> Or did you just decide that, knowing what you know about movie making, 
> your
> skills wouldn't translate to screenwriting?

Au contrair.  I think I'd be a cracker jack screenwriter.  I just don't 
want to do it.  It's like knowing your good at something that doesn't 
interest you.  I was a pretty good competitive swimmer in junior high.  
I just had no desire to continue in high school, even though swimmers 
were BMOC's at my school (we won the City Championships for 11 years 
running, sectional four times, and state twice)
>
> I find it rare that someone has a realistic grasp of what they are 
> truly good
> at and what they're not. Most of us tend to either overestimate our 
> abilities
> and get in over our heads, or underestimate them and end up never really
> challenging ourselves.
>

You never know until you try and fail what you're capable of.  The only 
true failure is not trying.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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From: "Earl Borah" <earl@ncn.com>
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> Have you tried writing a screenplay before, and decided you're not good at it? 
> Or did you just decide that, knowing what you know about movie making, your 
> skills wouldn't translate to screenwriting?

I just thought of the secret third answer: "None of your damn business." In 
reading this when it came back to me on the list, I hope it didn't come across 
as too nosy.

> I find it rare that someone has a realistic grasp of what they are truly good 
> at and what they're not. Most of us tend to either overestimate our abilities 
> and get in over our heads, or underestimate them and end up never really 
> challenging ourselves.

This is the part, in re-reading, that really sounded bad. My initial 
assumption, Ray, is that you *DO* have a realistic grasp of what you're truly 
good at. It wasn't my intention to imply that you don't challenge yourself, but 
that's sure the way it looked to me when I read it a second time.

So to put it a slightly different way...Ray, you seem to have a good grasp on 
what you should be doing (novels, not screenplays). How did you come to get 
such a good handle on your skills? Many people don't have that much confidence 
in where their abilities lie (lay?).

  - Earl Borah
-----
  If a man speaks in a forest and a woman isn't there to hear it,
  is he still wrong?              (author unknown)



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From: Joel Rosenberg <joelr@ellegon.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Movie
Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 12:35:55 -0500
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*** EOOH ***
From: Joel Rosenberg <joelr@ellegon.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Movie
Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 12:35:55 -0500
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"Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
Belgian citizenship"?

:)

On Monday 29 April 2002 12:21 pm, you wrote:
> I didn't really mean nasty, and I'm sorry if that was offensive. Since my
> English isn't all that great, it may occur that I have some difficulties
> expressing myself in the exact same way I'm thinking about something. And
> since I live in Belgium, I don't think you can blame me for that. But I
> think you understood what I meant, right?
>
>
> From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
>
> >Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> >To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
> >Subject: Re: Movie
> >Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 09:28:15 -0700
> >
> >On Monday, April 29, 2002, at 09:06 AM, Wouter Durnez wrote:
> >>Mr.. Feist (can I call you Ray, like everyone else? :-) ), please don't
> >>think that we don't appreciate it, when you answer our questions. I
> >>know, sometimes we can be a bit of a burden, but don't quit the list
> >>because of a nasty mail. And about the movie, I understand that you're
> >>in a difficult position to comment that subject, so I'll only ask one
> >>thing. Please let us be among the first to know, if it is certain that
> >>there will be a movie.
> >>Thanks
> >
> >I'm not thinking of quitting the list.  And Jason's note wasn't "nasty,"
> >rather it was ill thought-out.  He's usually one of the better posters
> >on the list.
> >
> >I just get tired of the "if you let someone else do it, you must only be
> >in it for the money" tone that pops up.  Not all writers are as
> >anal-retentive and control freakish as many fans appear to be.
> >
> >Anyone who has read the original Frank Herbert screenplay for Dune would
> >instantly realize that many times the author of the book is the last
> >person you want adapting it to film.
> >
> >Best, R.E.F.
> >----
> >
> >Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
> >stupidity.
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
> http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx



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From: "Earl Borah" <earl@ncn.com>
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Last email, and then I'll shut up for a while.  :)

> 1.  Writing is hard work.  Doing hard work that you might get paid for is 
> usually less interesting than doing hard work that you will be paid for, and 
> almost certainly paid better for.  

I think that's one thing many fans forget -- that writing is work. We tend to 
see only our end of it, where reading is usually tied to leisure, and forget 
your end, where it's work. Thus, since we read for the love of reading, it's 
easy to assume that writers just write for the love of writing.

While there may be an element of truth to that, I know that while I love my job 
(computer programming), I wouldn't do it if I didn't get paid. Even if I had 
the opportunity and tools available, it's far too frustrating and there are far 
too many other ways to spend my leisure time.

I imagine writing must be much the same way -- fun and enjoyable at times, 
immensely frustrating at times, rewarding at times, but something you wouldn't 
do in any volume if it wasn't a job.
-----
  "I dislike being wrong, and having to admit it publicly later. It's
  embarrassing, humiliating, and unnecessary. It would have been just
  as easy, and much more pleasant, to have been right in the first place."
    - Jack Richard, former Editor of Boardwatch Magazine



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 10:53:15 -0700
Subject: Re: Movie
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Monday, April 29, 2002, at 10:32 AM, Earl Borah wrote:

>>

> So to put it a slightly different way...Ray, you seem to have a good 
> grasp on
> what you should be doing (novels, not screenplays). How did you come to 
> get
> such a good handle on your skills? Many people don't have that much 
> confidence
> in where their abilities lie (lay?).
>

It's pretty easy when writing is the only thing I've done that's made me 
more than a million dollars.  Never made that kind of money selling cars.

Also, it flows.  When you're doing something you really enjoy, well, it 
just . . . flows.  The words come out and on you go.  Very little 
conscious effort when it's going right.  When it's not, it's like root 
canal, but I'm blessed that most of the time it goes right.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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From: "rob tavares" <vze26fdh@verizon.net>
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Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 14:27:47 -0400
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So aren't we ray, so aren't we :)

-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Raymond Feist
>Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 1:53 PM
>To: FEISTFANS-L
>Subject: Re: Movie
>
>
>On Monday, April 29, 2002, at 10:32 AM, Earl Borah wrote:
>
>>>
>
>> So to put it a slightly different way...Ray, you seem to have a good 
>> grasp on
>> what you should be doing (novels, not screenplays). How did you come to 
>> get
>> such a good handle on your skills? Many people don't have that much 
>> confidence
>> in where their abilities lie (lay?).
>>
>
>It's pretty easy when writing is the only thing I've done that's made me
>
>more than a million dollars.  Never made that kind of money selling
>cars.
>
>Also, it flows.  When you're doing something you really enjoy, well, it 
>just . . . flows.  The words come out and on you go.  Very little 
>conscious effort when it's going right.  When it's not, it's like root 
>canal, but I'm blessed that most of the time it goes right.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
>stupidity.
>


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From: "David Christensen" <damc84@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Kelewan
Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 20:26:55 +0000
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From: "David Christensen" <damc84@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Kelewan
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Right, now that I've read Daughter and Servant of the Empire so far 
(anxiously anticipating Mistress from the local library as I can't afford to 
buy books), Im curious...

Kelewan seems to be (generally) following the course of real-life European 
history in parallel, with the feudal, oligarchic system giving way to 
something that resembles an absolute monarchy with power consolidated in the 
Emperor.

When can we expect the one-man-rule to crack, like the French revolution?

David



_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 13:46:32 -0700
Subject: Re: Kelewan
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Monday, April 29, 2002, at 01:26 PM, David Christensen wrote:

> Right, now that I've read Daughter and Servant of the Empire so far 
> (anxiously anticipating Mistress from the local library as I can't 
> afford to buy books), Im curious...
>
> Kelewan seems to be (generally) following the course of real-life 
> European history in parallel, with the feudal, oligarchic system giving 
> way to something that resembles an absolute monarchy with power 
> consolidated in the Emperor.
>
> When can we expect the one-man-rule to crack, like the French 
> revolution?
>

Not  in the course of anything about which I've written.  Kelewan's 
evolution is made up, but elements of it are borrowed from the history 
of Japan, not Europe.  The closest thing in Earth history would be the 
overthrow of the Shogunate which led to the Mijin Restoration.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 16:41:10 -0600
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
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Subject: Re: Movie
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Joel Rosenberg wrote:
> 
> "Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
> Belgian citizenship"?

"Belgium, man! BELGIUM!"

Ok, so we're not allowed to worship Douglas Adams here but I couldn't
resist.

Anyways, most of us certainly don't know the business, but aside from
the differences between writing a book and writing a screenplay, am I
wrong to think that screenplays in general don't pay as well than a
novel? or does it all come down to experience and quality, etc?

Ie, Ray writes great books, but even if he wrote a great screenplay he's
likely to get the shaft?

Craig J. Ries



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From: Joel Rosenberg <joelr@ellegon.com>
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Subject: Re: Movie
Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 19:18:32 -0500
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*** EOOH ***
From: Joel Rosenberg <joelr@ellegon.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Movie
Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 19:18:32 -0500
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On Monday 29 April 2002 05:41 pm, you wrote:
> Joel Rosenberg wrote:
> > "Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
> > Belgian citizenship"?
>
> "Belgium, man! BELGIUM!"
>
> Ok, so we're not allowed to worship Douglas Adams here but I couldn't
> resist.
>
> Anyways, most of us certainly don't know the business, but aside from
> the differences between writing a book and writing a screenplay, am I
> wrong to think that screenplays in general don't pay as well than a
> novel? or does it all come down to experience and quality, etc?
>
> Ie, Ray writes great books, but even if he wrote a great screenplay he's
> likely to get the shaft?
>
> Craig J. Ries

Depends on who you are.  At the bottom, Guild minimum for a screenplay is one 
hell of a lot more than a first novel will go for -- probably by at least an 
order of magnitude.  At the very top, there are a few, very few, 
screenwriters, with terrific credentials, who can command seven figures.  

Realistically, a New York Times bestselling writer who doesn't have terrific 
screenwriting credentials is, even assuming he can sell a screenplay, liable 
to take a cut in pay for it on the close order of 90% of what his next, 
presumably NYTimes bestselling novel will go for.  



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Joel Rosenberg wrote:

> For those who haven't heard, George Alec Effinger -- a friend of mine and, I 
> believe of Ray's, as well as one hell of a fine writer -- has died.
> 
> RIP, Piglet.  Dammit.


Aw, bugger.  Only met George once, but he seemed a good guy.


cd
-- 
Death to all Absolutists!



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 18:46:46 -0700
Subject: Re: Movie
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Monday, April 29, 2002, at 03:41 PM, Craig J. Ries wrote:

> Joel Rosenberg wrote:
>>
>> "Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
>> Belgian citizenship"?
>
> "Belgium, man! BELGIUM!"
>
> Ok, so we're not allowed to worship Douglas Adams here but I couldn't
> resist.
>
> Anyways, most of us certainly don't know the business, but aside from
> the differences between writing a book and writing a screenplay, am I
> wrong to think that screenplays in general don't pay as well than a
> novel? or does it all come down to experience and quality, etc?

It comes down to supply and demand, like everything else.  Few novelists 
make as much money per book as Joe Hesterhauz makes per screenplay.  Few 
screenwriters make as much money per screenplay as I do per book.  No 
one makes as much money as J.K. Rowlings, including John Grisham, 
Stephen King, and Tom Clancy all rolled up into one.

>
> Ie, Ray writes great books, but even if he wrote a great screenplay he's
> likely to get the shaft?

Not the shaft, just not as much money as I get per book.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 19:51:42 -0600
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
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Raymond Feist wrote:
> 
> Not the shaft, just not as much money as I get per book.

Ahh. Ok.

So for somebody just starting out, is one worth attempting over the
other?
I know that the newer Star Treks (atleast until Enteprise) were taking
unsolicited scripts and a number were used, thus giving people a start,
but as you've said, the market is much smaller for screenplays. And
there seems to be an endless number of fantasy authors out there :)

Craig J. Ries



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From: Bret Robideaux <bretr@alliances.org>
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> 
> I just get very irritated with the "all you care about is money," tone 
> of some messages when people have zero idea of what I can or can't do in 
> terms of quality control on a film.  As if me writing the screenplay 
> would guarantee a good movie.
> 
> You want to see a good adaptation?  Read The Princess Bride then watch 
> the film.  But William Goldman is both a great novelist and a great 
> screenwriter.  I'm not.
> 


   Arrrrgh Ray!! You're shattering all my illusions about you!! You mean 
you're really just like the rest of us wanting to do something you enjoy 
and make the best living possible with your skills??  Jeez, if I wanted 
to hang around someone with similar ideas about making a living I'd join 
an email list or something!! Oh wait ...

*grin*

Bret (thankful he has a job, but anxiously waiting for the next tech 
wave so he can whore himself to the highest bidder and make alot more money)



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From: "MChaloner" <markchaloner@btinternet.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Movie
Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 18:56:41 +0100
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From: "MChaloner" <markchaloner@btinternet.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Movie
Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 18:56:41 +0100
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>> On Monday, April 29, 2002, at 09:56 AM, Earl Borah wrote:
>> <snip>
>> Have you tried writing a screenplay before, and decided you're not 
>> good
>> at it?
>> Or did you just decide that, knowing what you know about movie making,
>
>> your
>> skills wouldn't translate to screenwriting?
>
>Au contrair.  I think I'd be a cracker jack screenwriter.  I just don't 
>want to do it.  It's like knowing your good at something that doesn't 
>interest you.
><snip>
>Best, R.E.F.

Yeah, I'd go along with that. Your books are very film-like in the way
that you write, especially the dialogue.
(Don't know if that's an influence from your father or not - y'know, you
hanging around studios & such).
It's always seems to be the way that -  what you're good at, you have no
interest in doing - and what you like doing, you're no good at. Sod's
law hey? <grins>
But I do think you'd make a good consultant though, if you had the time
& interest when you were approached.

Mark ;-)



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From: "=?iso-8859-1?B?S2Hvbg==?=" <kain.verlinde@pandora.be>
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Subject: RE: Movie
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 10:32:49 +0200
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> "Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
> Belgian citizenship"?

> :)


Being Belgian myself, I just have to de-lurk to say "LOL" for this one.

Kaïn

-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Joel Rosenberg
>Sent: maandag 29 april 2002 19:36
>To: FEISTFANS-L
>Subject: Re: Movie
>
>
>"Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
>Belgian citizenship"?
>
>:)
>


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Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 08:15:53 -0700
Subject: Re: Movie
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Monday, April 29, 2002, at 06:51 PM, Craig J. Ries wrote:

> Raymond Feist wrote:
>>
>> Not the shaft, just not as much money as I get per book.
>
> Ahh. Ok.
>
> So for somebody just starting out, is one worth attempting over the
> other?
> I know that the newer Star Treks (atleast until Enteprise) were taking
> unsolicited scripts and a number were used, thus giving people a start,
> but as you've said, the market is much smaller for screenplays. And
> there seems to be an endless number of fantasy authors out there :)
>
> Craig J. Ries
>
>
>
>
There is no "edge" picking one over the other.  Write what you want to 
write.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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From: "Wouter Durnez" <arutha_of_krondor@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re: Kelewan
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From: "Wouter Durnez" <arutha_of_krondor@hotmail.com>
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Kelewan is definitely not parallel to Europa, but to Japan. The system of 
families and warfare are quite similar to the Japanese. I believe that 
Midkemia is rather inspired on Europe and Africa, which would be similar to 
The Kingdom and The Empire of Kesh. (If those are not the right names, I 
apologise, the books I have are Dutch. Why do the Dutch publishers change so 
many names anyway?)
wouter

>Right, now that I've read Daughter and Servant of the Empire so far
>(anxiously anticipating Mistress from the local library as I can't
>afford to buy books), Im curious...
>
>Kelewan seems to be (generally) following the course of real-life
>European history in parallel, with the feudal, oligarchic system giving
>way to something that resembles an absolute monarchy with power
>consolidated in the Emperor.
>
>When can we expect the one-man-rule to crack, like the French
>revolution


_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com



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Okay, perhaps you're right. But don't worry, I'm probably just action stupid 
occasionally 'cause I'm still a bit excited about this fan list. I promise 
I'll think harder before commenting something, okay?
(But besides Jean-Claude Van Damme, there's nothing wrong with Belgium :))
Wouter


>From: Joel Rosenberg <joelr@ellegon.com>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
>Subject: Re: Movie
>Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 12:35:55 -0500
>
>"Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
>Belgian citizenship"?
>
>:)
>
>On Monday 29 April 2002 12:21 pm, you wrote:
> > I didn't really mean nasty, and I'm sorry if that was offensive. Since 
>my
> > English isn't all that great, it may occur that I have some difficulties
> > expressing myself in the exact same way I'm thinking about something. 
>And
> > since I live in Belgium, I don't think you can blame me for that. But I
> > think you understood what I meant, right?
> >
> >
> > From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
> >
> > >Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > >To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
> > >Subject: Re: Movie
> > >Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 09:28:15 -0700
> > >
> > >On Monday, April 29, 2002, at 09:06 AM, Wouter Durnez wrote:
> > >>Mr.. Feist (can I call you Ray, like everyone else? :-) ), please 
>don't
> > >>think that we don't appreciate it, when you answer our questions. I
> > >>know, sometimes we can be a bit of a burden, but don't quit the list
> > >>because of a nasty mail. And about the movie, I understand that you're
> > >>in a difficult position to comment that subject, so I'll only ask one
> > >>thing. Please let us be among the first to know, if it is certain that
> > >>there will be a movie.
> > >>Thanks
> > >
> > >I'm not thinking of quitting the list.  And Jason's note wasn't 
>"nasty,"
> > >rather it was ill thought-out.  He's usually one of the better posters
> > >on the list.
> > >
> > >I just get tired of the "if you let someone else do it, you must only 
>be
> > >in it for the money" tone that pops up.  Not all writers are as
> > >anal-retentive and control freakish as many fans appear to be.
> > >
> > >Anyone who has read the original Frank Herbert screenplay for Dune 
>would
> > >instantly realize that many times the author of the book is the last
> > >person you want adapting it to film.
> > >
> > >Best, R.E.F.
> > >----
> > >
> > >Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
> > >stupidity.
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
> > http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
>




_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.



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Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 09:53:50 -0700
Subject: Re: Kelewan
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 09:53:50 -0700
Subject: Re: Kelewan
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Tuesday, April 30, 2002, at 08:19 AM, Wouter Durnez wrote:

> Kelewan is definitely not parallel to Europa, but to Japan. The system 
> of families and warfare are quite similar to the Japanese. I believe 
> that Midkemia is rather inspired on Europe and Africa, which would be 
> similar to The Kingdom and The Empire of Kesh. (If those are not the 
> right names, I apologise, the books I have are Dutch. Why do the Dutch 
> publishers change so many names anyway?)

Long story, and the short answer is changing names like Jimmy to Robby 
got an editor there fired.  After a certain point, the names are back to 
where they are supposed to be.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 18:02:03 +0000
Subject: Re: Signature
From: "Sylvain Guehl" <fenyxkell@demo.xandmail.com>
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Ah yes, Napoleon.

And why do you like it so much ?

Syl


Deowner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

AFEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)

Cc

DateSun, 28 Apr 2002 10:36:08 -0700

SujetRe: Signature

  

> 
> On Sunday, April 28, 2002, at 08:03 AM, Sylvain Guehl wrote:
> 
> > Ray, it's been a quite long time since you came up with that signature 
> > in your mails. Where does it come from ? (I guess it's yours, but how 
> > did you come up with it ?)
> >  
> > Syl
> >  
> >
> >
> 
> I'm not sure, exactly, where it originated in this form. The original 
> quote came from Napoleon, "Never attribute to malice that which can be 
> explained by incompetence."
> 
> I may have gotten it from Bob Heinlein, who had a strong military 
> background. I know I first heard it years ago, probably at a writers 
> gathering or a convention.
> 
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
> 
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
> stupidity.
> 
> 


Fenyx Kell.

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*** EOOH ***
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> You want to see a good adaptation? Read The Princess Bride then watch 
> the film. But William Goldman is both a great novelist and a great 
> screenwriter. 

100% agreed.

> Anyone who has read the original Frank Herbert screenplay for Dune would 
> instantly realize that many times the author of the book is the last 
> person you want adapting it to film.

Again, agreed.

Just one question Raymond, I picked you using "au contraire" in your
reply... is it you who purposely took a french expression or is it a
common one in english too (I mean commonly taken from french, just
like "voilà" or "déjà vu") ?

Syl



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Ray,

I was trying to read the books in Midkemia's chronological order, including 
the books from the series of games, when a question came into my head.  I 
can't recall if this question is answered in the Serpent War series or not so 
I figured I'd ask.  In PoB we learn William had a fling with Jazhara and that 
there were still some things to be sorted out there. She is as much a major 
figure as James in TotG, and plenty of things get wrapped up by the end of 
the book between her and Willie. However I am starting The King's Buccaneer 
again, and as this is my first time with the knowledge of things that 
happened in KtA, KtB, and TotG. What I have found is that there is no mention 
of her in Buccaneer. In fact Arutha's adviser is someone completely 
different. Did I miss what happened to her? Did anything? Or is this a case 
of an idea from years ago when Buccaneer was written explaining Wills 
situation and then years after writing stuff to fit in times that you had 
already passed up.

-Sean



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 02:34:13 +0800
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On 30 Apr 2002 18:09:55 +0000,  Syl said:
[snip]
>
>
>Just one question Raymond, I picked you using "au contraire" in your 
>reply... is it you who purposely took a french expression or is it a 
>common one in english too (I mean commonly taken from french, just 
>like "voilà" or "déjà vu") ?
>
>Syl

IMHO, Ray could have used the English form of that expression "on the 
contrary", but I think he was looking for something with a bit 
more.... 'élan'. ;)
-- 
----

SeeYa StarSide

Shawn Chung

--------------
"Hokey religions and Ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster 
at your side, kid."
- Han Solo

"Is it not nifty? Worship the comic."
Sluggy Freelance - www.sluggy.com



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Subject: Re: Movie
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*** EOOH ***
From: RBlackley@aol.com
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 15:02:50 EDT
Subject: Re: Movie
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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Its relatively common, among educated people.
Richard

In a message dated 4/30/2002 2:53:45 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
fenyxkell@demo.xandmail.com writes:


> Again, agreed.
> 
> Just one question Raymond, I picked you using "au contraire" in your 
> reply... is it you who purposely took a french expression or is it a common 
> one in english too (I mean commonly taken from french, just like "voilà" or 
> "déjà vu") ?
> 
> Syl


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From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Jazhara
Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 03:14:07 +0800
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*** EOOH ***
From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Jazhara
Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 03:14:07 +0800
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I can't speak officially but I believe that is a topic which might be
cleared up if and when we find out the conclusion to the conundrum of
the crawler that is confusing the creative and clever craniums of the
crime fighters that are Jimmy & Co.

In other words, I believe Ray has said there are possibly 1 or 2 more
Krondor books to be written after K:TotG and that is where we may learn
the fate of Jazhara

David

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu 
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Smenick@aol.com
> Sent: Wednesday, 1 May 2002 2:24 AM
> To: FEISTFANS-L
> Subject: Jazhara
> 
> 
> Ray,
> 
> I was trying to read the books in Midkemia's chronological 
> order, including 
> the books from the series of games, when a question came into 
> my head.  I 
> can't recall if this question is answered in the Serpent War 
> series or not so 
> I figured I'd ask.  In PoB we learn William had a fling with 
> Jazhara and that 
> there were still some things to be sorted out there. She is 
> as much a major 
> figure as James in TotG, and plenty of things get wrapped up 
> by the end of 
> the book between her and Willie. However I am starting The 
> King's Buccaneer 
> again, and as this is my first time with the knowledge of things that 
> happened in KtA, KtB, and TotG. What I have found is that 
> there is no mention 
> of her in Buccaneer. In fact Arutha's adviser is someone completely 
> different. Did I miss what happened to her? Did anything? Or 
> is this a case 
> of an idea from years ago when Buccaneer was written explaining Wills 
> situation and then years after writing stuff to fit in times 
> that you had 
> already passed up.
> 
> -Sean
> 



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From: "Wouter Durnez" <arutha_of_krondor@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Kelewan
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 19:29:38 +0000
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From: "Wouter Durnez" <arutha_of_krondor@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re: Kelewan
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 19:29:38 +0000
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Actually, I kind of like the name Robby :-) (But that probably has a lot to 
do with me 'growing up with that name'(Yes, I did grow up with it!)) But it 
does take away some of the authenticity of your work, so I think nothing 
should be changed in the content.


>From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
>Subject: Re: Kelewan
>Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 09:53:50 -0700
>
>
>On Tuesday, April 30, 2002, at 08:19 AM, Wouter Durnez wrote:
>
>>Kelewan is definitely not parallel to Europa, but to Japan. The system
>>of families and warfare are quite similar to the Japanese. I believe
>>that Midkemia is rather inspired on Europe and Africa, which would be
>>similar to The Kingdom and The Empire of Kesh. (If those are not the
>>right names, I apologise, the books I have are Dutch. Why do the Dutch
>>publishers change so many names anyway?)
>
>Long story, and the short answer is changing names like Jimmy to Robby
>got an editor there fired.  After a certain point, the names are back to
>where they are supposed to be.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
>stupidity.
>




_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com



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From: "rob tavares" <vze26fdh@verizon.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Betrayal at Krondor PC game tech question
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 15:52:59 -0400
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From: "rob tavares" <vze26fdh@verizon.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Betrayal at Krondor PC game tech question
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 15:52:59 -0400
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Hey fella's. I'm in a pickle. I got this supped up computer, 256 meg
ram, 60 gig hd, Pentium 4, 21" flatscreen, etc, etc, etc. with
windowsME.

If any of you know windows ME, you know that it is the one OS that runs
w/o dos. Thus my favorite game. Betrayal at krondor. Refuses to run. And
after 14 emails back and forth from sierra tech, they claim unjustly
that they can offer no further assistance.

Question: have any of you guys gotten BaK to work on winME?

-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Smenick@aol.com
>Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 2:24 PM
>To: FEISTFANS-L
>Subject: Jazhara
>
>Ray,
>
>I was trying to read the books in Midkemia's chronological order,
>including 
>the books from the series of games, when a question came into my head.
>I 
>can't recall if this question is answered in the Serpent War series or
>not so 
>I figured I'd ask.  In PoB we learn William had a fling with Jazhara and
>that 
>there were still some things to be sorted out there. She is as much a
>major 
>figure as James in TotG, and plenty of things get wrapped up by the end
>of 
>the book between her and Willie. However I am starting The King's
>Buccaneer 
>again, and as this is my first time with the knowledge of things that 
>happened in KtA, KtB, and TotG. What I have found is that there is no
>mention 
>of her in Buccaneer. In fact Arutha's adviser is someone completely 
>different. Did I miss what happened to her? Did anything? Or is this a
>case 
>of an idea from years ago when Buccaneer was written explaining Wills 
>situation and then years after writing stuff to fit in times that you
>had 
>already passed up.
>
>-Sean
>


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To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
References: <156.d2165e3.2a00445a@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Movie
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Movie
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 15:11:09 -0500
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Yeah but seriously exactly how many of those are there in this
country?  There may be a few, but it certainly isn't the majority of
the country.  But what can we expect given our overall crappy
education system and mediocre attempts at patching it up.

-James

--------------
>Its relatively common, among educated people.
>Richard
>--------------
>
>> Again, agreed.
>>
>> Just one question Raymond, I picked you using "au contraire" in your
>> reply... is it you who purposely took a french expression or is it a common
>> one in english too (I mean commonly taken from french, just like "voilà" or
>> "déjà vu") ?
>>
>> Syl



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To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
References: <000401c1f080$a204fac0$eae0fea9@6ryth01>
Subject: Re: Betrayal at Krondor PC game tech question
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 15:10:05 -0500
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Betrayal at Krondor PC game tech question
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 15:10:05 -0500
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Nope.  I don't know anyone who has successfully transferred that
particular game to anything beyond Win98 and kept it fully
functioning.  It even has a hard time working on my Win98.
Seriously loosing the dos-shell pissed me off enough not to upgrade
because I still play BaK, EOB (eye of the beholder series), and many
of the original games from that era, that just don't run without a
dos system.  Perhaps you can find a dos-emulator that could do it, I
know Casio has one that is really good for their small systems.

-James

----- Original Message -----
From: "rob tavares" <vze26fdh@verizon.net>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 2:52 PM
Subject: Betrayal at Krondor PC game tech question


> Hey fella's. I'm in a pickle. I got this supped up computer, 256 meg
> ram, 60 gig hd, Pentium 4, 21" flatscreen, etc, etc, etc. with
> windowsME.
>
> If any of you know windows ME, you know that it is the one OS that runs
> w/o dos. Thus my favorite game. Betrayal at krondor. Refuses to run. And
> after 14 emails back and forth from sierra tech, they claim unjustly
> that they can offer no further assistance.
>
> Question: have any of you guys gotten BaK to work on winME?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Smenick@aol.com
> Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 2:24 PM
> To: FEISTFANS-L
> Subject: Jazhara
>
> Ray,
>
> I was trying to read the books in Midkemia's chronological order,
> including
> the books from the series of games, when a question came into my head.
> I
> can't recall if this question is answered in the Serpent War series or
> not so
> I figured I'd ask.  In PoB we learn William had a fling with Jazhara and
> that
> there were still some things to be sorted out there. She is as much a
> major
> figure as James in TotG, and plenty of things get wrapped up by the end
> of
> the book between her and Willie. However I am starting The King's
> Buccaneer
> again, and as this is my first time with the knowledge of things that
> happened in KtA, KtB, and TotG. What I have found is that there is no
> mention
> of her in Buccaneer. In fact Arutha's adviser is someone completely
> different. Did I miss what happened to her? Did anything? Or is this a
> case
> of an idea from years ago when Buccaneer was written explaining Wills
> situation and then years after writing stuff to fit in times that you
> had
> already passed up.
>
> -Sean
>



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Subject: Re: Betrayal at Krondor PC game tech question
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*** EOOH ***
From: RBlackley@aol.com
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 16:12:46 EDT
Subject: Re: Betrayal at Krondor PC game tech question
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

It isn't just ME once your computer gets up to a certain spec both games 
don't work, this happened to me also but i asked a lot of people and they 
confirmed it

Richard

In a message dated 4/30/2002 4:11:23 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
vze26fdh@verizon.net writes:


> Hey fella's. I'm in a pickle. I got this supped up computer, 256 meg
> ram, 60 gig hd, Pentium 4, 21" flatscreen, etc, etc, etc. with
> windowsME.
> 
> If any of you know windows ME, you know that it is the one OS that runs
> w/o dos. Thus my favorite game. Betrayal at krondor. Refuses to run. And
> after 14 emails back and forth from sierra tech, they claim unjustly
> that they can offer no further assistance.
> 
> Question: have any of you guys gotten BaK to work on winME?


-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
"We don't want to go back to tomorrow, we want to go forward."
Dan Quayle
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-

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From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Jazhara
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 16:30:18 -0400
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From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Jazhara
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 16:30:18 -0400
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The fate od Jazhara is mentioned in the Serpent War trilogy. Some one is 
talking to William before the siege of Krondor and talks about why he never 
married.

Adieu

Jimmy


>From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
>Subject: RE: Jazhara
>Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 03:14:07 +0800
>
>I can't speak officially but I believe that is a topic which might be
>cleared up if and when we find out the conclusion to the conundrum of
>the crawler that is confusing the creative and clever craniums of the
>crime fighters that are Jimmy & Co.
>
>In other words, I believe Ray has said there are possibly 1 or 2 more
>Krondor books to be written after K:TotG and that is where we may learn
>the fate of Jazhara
>
>David
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Smenick@aol.com
> > Sent: Wednesday, 1 May 2002 2:24 AM
> > To: FEISTFANS-L
> > Subject: Jazhara
> >
> >
> > Ray,
> >
> > I was trying to read the books in Midkemia's chronological
> > order, including
> > the books from the series of games, when a question came into
> > my head.  I
> > can't recall if this question is answered in the Serpent War
> > series or not so
> > I figured I'd ask.  In PoB we learn William had a fling with
> > Jazhara and that
> > there were still some things to be sorted out there. She is
> > as much a major
> > figure as James in TotG, and plenty of things get wrapped up
> > by the end of
> > the book between her and Willie. However I am starting The
> > King's Buccaneer
> > again, and as this is my first time with the knowledge of things that
> > happened in KtA, KtB, and TotG. What I have found is that
> > there is no mention
> > of her in Buccaneer. In fact Arutha's adviser is someone completely
> > different. Did I miss what happened to her? Did anything? Or
> > is this a case
> > of an idea from years ago when Buccaneer was written explaining Wills
> > situation and then years after writing stuff to fit in times
> > that you had
> > already passed up.
> >
> > -Sean
> >
>


_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com



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*** EOOH ***
From: RBlackley@aol.com
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 16:37:21 EDT
Subject: Re: Movie
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Yeah, well due to my parents hard work I'm having the benefit of growing up 
in an excellent school district in a town full of rich successful people(thus 
mostly smart).  So I guess to me there is a majority who would and do use 
such phrases.  Actually I had never thought about that before.
Richard

> Yeah but seriously exactly how many of those are there in this
> 
> country?  There may be a few, but it certainly isn't the majority of
> the country.  But what can we expect given our overall crappy
> education system and mediocre attempts at patching it up.
> 
> -James
> 


-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
"We don't want to go back to tomorrow, we want to go forward."
Dan Quayle
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-

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To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
References: <174.78e932d.2a005a81@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Movie
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 15:46:07 -0500
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Movie
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 15:46:07 -0500
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Rich and successful doesn't mean smart.  I know a lot of rich
idiots, and a couple of "poor" geniuses.  Remember as many people
have said, it is 10% brains, 90% drive to get to the top.  Also
there is a big difference between well educated and smart as well, a
person can be intelligent, but poorly educated, others may be
exceptionally well educated, but not capable of much independent
thought.  It is all a matter of how you look at the words, and the
society around them, and in the US in particular education has been
poorly used to determined who is "smart" and who is not.  But before
I turn this into one of my favorite rants, I'll cut myself off.

-James

----- Original Message -----
From: <RBlackley@aol.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 3:37 PM
Subject: Re: Movie


> Yeah, well due to my parents hard work I'm having the benefit of growing up
> in an excellent school district in a town full of rich successful people(thus
> mostly smart).  So I guess to me there is a majority who would and do use
> such phrases.  Actually I had never thought about that before.
> Richard
>
> > Yeah but seriously exactly how many of those are there in this
> >
> > country?  There may be a few, but it certainly isn't the majority of
> > the country.  But what can we expect given our overall crappy
> > education system and mediocre attempts at patching it up.
> >
> > -James
> >
>
>
> -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
> "We don't want to go back to tomorrow, we want to go forward."
> Dan Quayle
> -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
>



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From: "Justin" <justin.carew@ntlworld.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: this applies to all astablished writers
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 21:32:13 +0100
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Justin" <justin.carew@ntlworld.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: this applies to all astablished writers
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 21:32:13 +0100
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I just wanted to ask how you became
official writers. Not all the stuff
about 'i wanted to be a writer since a
young age' but what transformed the
dream into a reality.

Justin



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From: RBlackley@aol.com
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 17:04:22 EDT
Subject: Re: Movie
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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Perhaps I phrased that wrong, for the most part I really meant that the 
school system is good so there are more educated kids, I didn't really mean 
the adults, hell they are probably worse than most of the kids.

Sorry about that

Richard

In a message dated 4/30/2002 5:02:40 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
jajy@earthlink.net writes:


> Rich and successful doesn't mean smart.  I know a lot of rich
> idiots, and a couple of "poor" geniuses.  Remember as many people
> have said, it is 10% brains, 90% drive to get to the top.  Also
> there is a big difference between well educated and smart as well, a
> person can be intelligent, but poorly educated, others may be
> exceptionally well educated, but not capable of much independent
> thought.  It is all a matter of how you look at the words, and the
> society around them, and in the US in particular education has been
> poorly used to determined who is "smart" and who is not.  But before
> I turn this into one of my favorite rants, I'll cut myself off.
> 
> -James
> 


-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
"We don't want to go back to tomorrow, we want to go forward."
Dan Quayle
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References: <000401c1f080$a204fac0$eae0fea9@6ryth01> <003c01c1f083$06a149a0$2bec79a5@oemcomputer>
Subject: Re: Betrayal at Krondor PC game tech question
Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 09:08:57 +1200
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Subject: Re: Betrayal at Krondor PC game tech question
Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 09:08:57 +1200
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Well i use Windoes XP, playing return to krondor on it is fine, but playing
Betrayal at Krondor is a no go. I have successfully figured out how to play
both Elder Scrolls 1: Arena and Elder Scrolls 2: Daggerfall, which are both
old dos games, using windows Xp's built in memory emulator, but Betrayal at
Krondor just refuses to recognise that i have enough memory to run the game.
Anyone know a way around this ?

----- Original Message -----
From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 8:10 AM
Subject: Re: Betrayal at Krondor PC game tech question


> Nope.  I don't know anyone who has successfully transferred that
> particular game to anything beyond Win98 and kept it fully
> functioning.  It even has a hard time working on my Win98.
> Seriously loosing the dos-shell pissed me off enough not to upgrade
> because I still play BaK, EOB (eye of the beholder series), and many
> of the original games from that era, that just don't run without a
> dos system.  Perhaps you can find a dos-emulator that could do it, I
> know Casio has one that is really good for their small systems.
>
> -James
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "rob tavares" <vze26fdh@verizon.net>
> To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 2:52 PM
> Subject: Betrayal at Krondor PC game tech question
>
>
> > Hey fella's. I'm in a pickle. I got this supped up computer, 256
> meg
> > ram, 60 gig hd, Pentium 4, 21" flatscreen, etc, etc, etc. with
> > windowsME.
> >
> > If any of you know windows ME, you know that it is the one OS that
> runs
> > w/o dos. Thus my favorite game. Betrayal at krondor. Refuses to
> run. And
> > after 14 emails back and forth from sierra tech, they claim
> unjustly
> > that they can offer no further assistance.
> >
> > Question: have any of you guys gotten BaK to work on winME?
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of
> Smenick@aol.com
> > Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 2:24 PM
> > To: FEISTFANS-L
> > Subject: Jazhara
> >
> > Ray,
> >
> > I was trying to read the books in Midkemia's chronological order,
> > including
> > the books from the series of games, when a question came into my
> head.
> > I
> > can't recall if this question is answered in the Serpent War
> series or
> > not so
> > I figured I'd ask.  In PoB we learn William had a fling with
> Jazhara and
> > that
> > there were still some things to be sorted out there. She is as
> much a
> > major
> > figure as James in TotG, and plenty of things get wrapped up by
> the end
> > of
> > the book between her and Willie. However I am starting The King's
> > Buccaneer
> > again, and as this is my first time with the knowledge of things
> that
> > happened in KtA, KtB, and TotG. What I have found is that there is
> no
> > mention
> > of her in Buccaneer. In fact Arutha's adviser is someone
> completely
> > different. Did I miss what happened to her? Did anything? Or is
> this a
> > case
> > of an idea from years ago when Buccaneer was written explaining
> Wills
> > situation and then years after writing stuff to fit in times that
> you
> > had
> > already passed up.
> >
> > -Sean
> >
>
>



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Date: Wed, 01 May 2002 07:40:03 +1000
From: David Smith <david.m.smith@Sun.COM>
Organization: Sun Microsystems
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Betrayal at Krondor PC game tech question
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

You're talking about a game that was designed to run on computers back in the
days when DOS *WAS* the OS (hence it's name) and windows were just glass filled
holes in the wall. Well maybe I'm exaggerating a wee bit about there being glass
<G>, but you get the idea. I think Sierra have have gone well beyond the call of
duty from what you have said about the number of e-mails. To make an analogy,
it's kinda like taking your 1940's Ford to Ford today and asking them to repair
it under warranty.

None of this is to say that it definately *won't* work, just that you can't
expect Sierra to support it.

-- David Smith

rob tavares wrote:

> Hey fella's. I'm in a pickle. I got this supped up computer, 256 meg
> ram, 60 gig hd, Pentium 4, 21" flatscreen, etc, etc, etc. with
> windowsME.
>
> If any of you know windows ME, you know that it is the one OS that runs
> w/o dos. Thus my favorite game. Betrayal at krondor. Refuses to run. And
> after 14 emails back and forth from sierra tech, they claim unjustly
> that they can offer no further assistance.
>
> Question: have any of you guys gotten BaK to work on winME?



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Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 15:05:17 -0700
Subject: Re: Signature
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 15:05:17 -0700
Subject: Re: Signature
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
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On Tuesday, April 30, 2002, at 11:02 AM, Sylvain Guehl wrote:

> Ah yes, Napoleon.
>  
> And why do you like it so much ?
>  
>

Because it defuses a lot of potentially foolish situations.

All too often you'll hear someone say, "That guy is really trying to 
piss me off."

Nine times out of ten, the correct answer is, "No, that guy doesn't care 
if you're pissed off or not; that guy is just doing something stupid, 
and you're pissed off about it."

Removing the illusion of malice takes a lot of heat out of situations 
that can easily get overheated otherwise.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 15:06:21 -0700
Subject: Re: Jazhara
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 15:06:21 -0700
Subject: Re: Jazhara
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Tuesday, April 30, 2002, at 11:23 AM, Smenick@aol.com wrote:

> Ray,
>
> I was trying to read the books in Midkemia's chronological order, 
> including
> the books from the series of games, when a question came into my 
> head.  I
> can't recall if this question is answered in the Serpent War series or 
> not so
> I figured I'd ask.  In PoB we learn William had a fling with Jazhara 
> and that
> there were still some things to be sorted out there. She is as much a 
> major
> figure as James in TotG, and plenty of things get wrapped up by the end 
> of
> the book between her and Willie. However I am starting The King's 
> Buccaneer
> again, and as this is my first time with the knowledge of things that
> happened in KtA, KtB, and TotG. What I have found is that there is no 
> mention
> of her in Buccaneer. In fact Arutha's adviser is someone completely
> different. Did I miss what happened to her? Did anything? Or is this a 
> case
> of an idea from years ago when Buccaneer was written explaining Wills
> situation and then years after writing stuff to fit in times that you 
> had
> already passed up.
>
> -Sean
>
>
>
>

She is gone by KB.  I haven't written that story yet.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 15:07:11 -0700
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 15:07:11 -0700
Subject: Re: Movie
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On Tuesday, April 30, 2002, at 11:09 AM, Sylvain Guehl wrote:

>> You want to see a good adaptation? Read The Princess Bride then watch
>> the film. But William Goldman is both a great novelist and a great
>> screenwriter.
>
> 100% agreed.
>
>> Anyone who has read the original Frank Herbert screenplay for Dune 
>> would
>> instantly realize that many times the author of the book is the last
>> person you want adapting it to film.
>
> Again, agreed.
>
> Just one question Raymond, I picked you using "au contraire" in your 
> reply... is it you who purposely took a french expression or is it a 
> common one in english too (I mean commonly taken from french, just like 
> "voilà" or "déjà vu") ?
>

It's used.  It's not that common, but it's used.  It just a bit of an 
affectation, rather than saying, "on the contrary."

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 15:08:51 -0700
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 15:08:51 -0700
Subject: Re: this applies to all astablished writers
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
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On Tuesday, April 30, 2002, at 01:32 PM, Justin wrote:

> I just wanted to ask how you became
> official writers. Not all the stuff
> about 'i wanted to be a writer since a
> young age' but what transformed the
> dream into a reality.
>
> Justin
>
>
>
>

Getting paid makes one a pro.  So, when I sold Magician, I became a 
professional writer.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 15:10:13 -0700
Subject: Re: Betrayal at Krondor PC game tech question
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 15:10:13 -0700
Subject: Re: Betrayal at Krondor PC game tech question
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
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On Tuesday, April 30, 2002, at 02:08 PM, Adam Thornton wrote:

> Well i use Windoes XP, playing return to krondor on it is fine, but 
> playing
> Betrayal at Krondor is a no go. I have successfully figured out how to 
> play
> both Elder Scrolls 1: Arena and Elder Scrolls 2: Daggerfall, which are 
> both
> old dos games, using windows Xp's built in memory emulator, but 
> Betrayal at
> Krondor just refuses to recognise that i have enough memory to run the 
> game.
> Anyone know a way around this ?
>

Check any old FAQ about the game and you'll see that it uses Expanded 
Memory instead of Extended Memory (or I may have that backwards) so just 
make sure that the Expanded memory is large enough and that you boot 
everything (including your mouse drivers) Himen.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 15:11:17 -0700
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From: Alan Kellogg <mythusmage@cts.com>
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>I just wanted to ask how you became
>official writers. Not all the stuff
>about 'i wanted to be a writer since a
>young age' but what transformed the
>dream into a reality.
>
>Justin

Getting published did it. Trouble is, it was in a niche of a niche 
market.:) Answering rules questions in a small RPG magazine. Had a 
column in three issues, then the periodical folded.  Same magazine 
accepted an article, but it was never paid for or published.

Alan
-- 
Writing Practice at: <http://www.gamingoutpost.com>



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*** EOOH ***
From: Joel Rosenberg <joelr@ellegon.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Movie
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 17:25:22 -0500
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

On Tuesday 30 April 2002 05:07 pm, you wrote:
> On Tuesday, April 30, 2002, at 11:09 AM, Sylvain Guehl wrote:
> >> You want to see a good adaptation? Read The Princess Bride then watch
> >> the film. But William Goldman is both a great novelist and a great
> >> screenwriter.
> >
> > 100% agreed.
> >
> >> Anyone who has read the original Frank Herbert screenplay for Dune
> >> would
> >> instantly realize that many times the author of the book is the last
> >> person you want adapting it to film.
> >
> > Again, agreed.
> >
> > Just one question Raymond, I picked you using "au contraire" in your
> > reply... is it you who purposely took a french expression or is it a
> > common one in english too (I mean commonly taken from french, just like
> > "voilà" or "déjà vu") ?
>
> It's used.  It's not that common, but it's used.  It just a bit of an
> affectation, rather than saying, "on the contrary."
>
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----

"Pretentious?  Moi?"



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To: feistfans-l@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Betrayal at Krondor PC game tech question
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 08:38:04 +1000 (EST)
From: "A Irving" <s355156@student.uq.edu.au>
To: feistfans-l@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Betrayal at Krondor PC game tech question
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I am glad I never had that problem, to run BaK in win98se. I just 
installed, clicked on the shortcut and set it to not detect dos-based 
programs (so the go to dos message doesn't appear) and it worked fine.
Responding To:    "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
Original Date:    Tue, 30 Apr 2002 15:10:05 -0500
> 
> Nope.  I don't know anyone who has successfully transferred that
> particular game to anything beyond Win98 and kept it fully
> functioning.  It even has a hard time working on my Win98.
> Seriously loosing the dos-shell pissed me off enough not to upgrade
> because I still play BaK, EOB (eye of the beholder series), and many
> of the original games from that era, that just don't run without a
> dos system.  Perhaps you can find a dos-emulator that could do it, I
> know Casio has one that is really good for their small systems.
> 
> -James
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "rob tavares" <vze26fdh@verizon.net>
> To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 2:52 PM
> Subject: Betrayal at Krondor PC game tech question
> 
> 
> > Hey fella's. I'm in a pickle. I got this supped up computer, 256
> meg
> > ram, 60 gig hd, Pentium 4, 21" flatscreen, etc, etc, etc. with
> > windowsME.
> >
> > If any of you know windows ME, you know that it is the one OS that
> runs
> > w/o dos. Thus my favorite game. Betrayal at krondor. Refuses to
> run. And
> > after 14 emails back and forth from sierra tech, they claim
> unjustly
> > that they can offer no further assistance.
> >
> > Question: have any of you guys gotten BaK to work on winME?
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of
> Smenick@aol.com
> > Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 2:24 PM
> > To: FEISTFANS-L
> > Subject: Jazhara
> >
> > Ray,
> >
> > I was trying to read the books in Midkemia's chronological order,
> > including
> > the books from the series of games, when a question came into my
> head.
> > I
> > can't recall if this question is answered in the Serpent War
> series or
> > not so
> > I figured I'd ask.  In PoB we learn William had a fling with
> Jazhara and
> > that
> > there were still some things to be sorted out there. She is as
> much a
> > major
> > figure as James in TotG, and plenty of things get wrapped up by
> the end
> > of
> > the book between her and Willie. However I am starting The King's
> > Buccaneer
> > again, and as this is my first time with the knowledge of things
> that
> > happened in KtA, KtB, and TotG. What I have found is that there is
> no
> > mention
> > of her in Buccaneer. In fact Arutha's adviser is someone
> completely
> > different. Did I miss what happened to her? Did anything? Or is
> this a
> > case
> > of an idea from years ago when Buccaneer was written explaining
> Wills
> > situation and then years after writing stuff to fit in times that
> you
> > had
> > already passed up.
> >
> > -Sean
> >
> 




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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 17:34:56 -0600
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Betrayal at Krondor PC game tech question
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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James Young wrote:
> 
> Nope.  I don't know anyone who has successfully transferred that
> particular game to anything beyond Win98 and kept it fully
> functioning.  It even has a hard time working on my Win98.

Well, smeg. Win98 actually has something going for it.

I probably play more DOS-based games than newer games. Personally, I've
had no problems running BaK on Win98.

Craig J. Ries



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 17:37:38 -0600
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: this applies to all astablished writers
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Justin wrote:
> 
> Not all the stuff about 'i wanted to be a writer since a young age'
> but what transformed the dream into a reality.

Writing.
Writing.
Submitting.
Writing.
Writing.
Mounting rejection letters on the wall.
Writing.
Writing.
For some: getting lucky, knowing people, etc. Mostly I'd say it's
persistence.

You get the idea :)

Craig J. Ries



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 17:40:43 -0600
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Movie
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Oh, please let's not associate wealth with intelligence.

I mean, look at politicians for example :P

I'm not from a well-to-do family by any means but I consider myself a
step above most people.

Craig J. Ries



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 17:53:44 -0600
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: this applies to all astablished writers
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Oh, it seems that everybody has interpreted this guy's question
differently ;)

Craig J. Ries



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Subject: Re: this applies to all astablished writers
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 01:20:30 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Andrea J Chee <andrea@bloodaxe.com>
Subject: Re: this applies to all astablished writers
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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In article <009501c1f088$f8192320$0100000a@faithful>, Justin
<justin.carew@ntlworld.com> writes

>I just wanted to ask how you became
>official writers. Not all the stuff
>about 'i wanted to be a writer since a
>young age' but what transformed the
>dream into a reality.

Circumstances. 

I was one of those kids you refer to, always sending stuff to the
newspapers and collecting rejection slips, from the time I was about 12.
But when it actually happened, it was entirely by chance. I left school
with a basic education at 16, partly because the schools didn't want me
and partly because I hated it. Writing was about the only real talent
I'd ever demonstrated since I started school anyway.

I discovered there are few jobs in Hong Kong for someone with no
qualifications who doesn't speak the lingo. I was lucky enough to find
an ad in the paper for what turned out to be one of the better options,
proof-reading for Far Eastern Economic Review (the Asian equivalent of
something like The Economist). 

I spent more than a year there, and it was a great apprenticeship. I met
good writers, and learned how things work on the technical side. Most
importantly, proof-reading is a great way to learn to apply discipline
to the written language and to gain an understanding of style (which has
been invaluable to me - there's always work somewhere for journos who
can produce print-ready copy).

One day there was a job ad in the paper for a features journalist at the
Hongkong Standard. It said they wanted qualifications and several years
experience. I applied, not expecting to get it, in much the same way as
I'd submitted unsolicited copy as a kid. But the features editor gave me
a chance and asked me to write something on spec. It was duly published
the following Monday, and I got my first writing job.

Then I was a 'real' writer, and I've been one off and on ever since,
though I seem to do hardly any writing these days. It was probably the
biggest break I ever got in my life, although I worked my ass/arse
<select your regional preference> off for very little money there, but
that's another story. 

- ANDREA (freelance journalist and editor)

-- 
^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^
                  ANDROMEDA - Internet Goddess
<andrea@bloodaxe.com>                    http://www.bloodaxe.com/
Bloodaxe's History Links:   http://www.geocities.com/Athens/5055/
The Loony Bin Archive:               http://www.theloonies.co.uk/



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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Andrea J Chee <andrea@bloodaxe.com>
Subject: Re: this applies to all astablished writers
References: <009501c1f088$f8192320$0100000a@faithful>
 <3CCF2AC2.C5F4BF7B@yifan.net> <3CCF2E88.737DEA6A@yifan.net>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 01:20:36 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Andrea J Chee <andrea@bloodaxe.com>
Subject: Re: this applies to all astablished writers
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

In article <3CCF2E88.737DEA6A@yifan.net>, Craig J. Ries
<cries@yifan.net> writes
>Oh, it seems that everybody has interpreted this guy's question
>differently ;)

It's that sort of question. :-)

- ANDREA

-- 
^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^
                  ANDROMEDA - Internet Goddess
<andrea@bloodaxe.com>                    http://www.bloodaxe.com/
Bloodaxe's History Links:   http://www.geocities.com/Athens/5055/
The Loony Bin Archive:               http://www.theloonies.co.uk/



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From: "Jeff Weidemann" <jeff@pronto.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Betrayal at Krondor PC game tech question
Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 10:48:10 +1000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Jeff Weidemann" <jeff@pronto.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Betrayal at Krondor PC game tech question
Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 10:48:10 +1000
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Don't bother with DOS programs beyond win98, bill has removed the 16bit
libraries required to run DOS programs.... (and they aint coming back!).
You might find bill looks ONLY ahead, never behind.

-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Craig J. Ries
>Sent: Wednesday, 1 May 2002 9:35 AM
>To: FEISTFANS-L
>Subject: Re: Betrayal at Krondor PC game tech question
>
>
>James Young wrote:
>> 
>> Nope.  I don't know anyone who has successfully transferred that 
>> particular game to anything beyond Win98 and kept it fully 
>> functioning.  It even has a hard time working on my Win98.
>
>Well, smeg. Win98 actually has something going for it.
>
>I probably play more DOS-based games than newer games. Personally, I've
>had no problems running BaK on Win98.
>
>Craig J. Ries
>


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Justin wrote:

> I just wanted to ask how you became
> official writers. Not all the stuff
> about 'i wanted to be a writer since a
> young age' but what transformed the
> dream into a reality.


Dunno how much I count as an "established writer" as I've sold, so far, 
a handful of short stories, a few dozen non-fiction articles, and a 
half-dozen reviews, but for me it was just a matter of sitting down and 
writing.
I'm currently at work on volue 2 of a 7 book contract.


cd
-- 
Death to all Absolutists!



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Subject: Re: Betrayal at Krondor PC game tech question
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From: Gkhd11a@aol.com
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 21:40:12 EDT
Subject: Re: Betrayal at Krondor PC game tech question
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       It would seem to me that Sierra should remake it for windows.  With 
modern graphics, voice overs, a quality soundtrack, and a few tweaks on 
gameplay, I don't see how the game could not sell.  With Sierra having it's 
troubles, I would think it would want to cash in on what it has.  Oh well, me 
asking won't do any good, but I guess if you really want something done the 
way you want it, then you have to do it yourself.  I heard that there is a 
programming book out there with the BaK source code, so you could modify it 
like people have with Max Payne and Half-Life.  Have you ever heard of it, 
Ray?

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Subject: OT Arena (was Re: Betrayal at Krondor PC game tech question
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Subject: OT Arena (was Re: Betrayal at Krondor PC game tech question
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> Well i use Windoes XP, playing return to krondor on it is fine, but 
> playing
> Betrayal at Krondor is a no go. I have successfully figured out how to 
> play
> both Elder Scrolls 1: Arena and Elder Scrolls 2: Daggerfall, which are 
> both
> old dos games, using windows Xp's built in memory emulator, but 
> Betrayal at
> Krondor just refuses to recognise that i have enough memory to run the 
> game.

Between, could you remind me own to travel from one country to another
in Elder Scrolls 1: Arena ? I played it 6 years ago but last years I
tried to finish it again and I just don't remember how to get the hell
out of my home land. I remember there was a ride on horse but I just
can't remember if I have to go and see someone or if it's key combo or
somthing...

Sorry lads for the OT topic. May anyone who knows about this please
reply to me personnaly. Thanks ! :)

Syl



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Subject: RE: Betrayal at Krondor PC game tech question
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Date: Wed,  1 May 2002 01:47:24 +0000
Subject: RE: Betrayal at Krondor PC game tech question
From: "Sylvain Guehl" <fenyxkell@demo.xandmail.com>
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With Win Xp I had to create a new hard drive partition of 2 GB where I
installed DOS 6.22 and Win 3.11 just to be able to play my old DOS
games... on my P3 600 Mhz :) Some games like Comanche are just too
fast to be played, but BaK keeps a fair taste :)

Syl


> Don't bother with DOS programs beyond win98, bill has removed the 16bit
> libraries required to run DOS programs.... (and they aint coming back!).
> You might find bill looks ONLY ahead, never behind.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Craig J. Ries
> Sent: Wednesday, 1 May 2002 9:35 AM
> To: FEISTFANS-L
> Subject: Re: Betrayal at Krondor PC game tech question
> 
> 
> James Young wrote:
> > 
> > Nope. I don't know anyone who has successfully transferred that 
> > particular game to anything beyond Win98 and kept it fully 
> > functioning. It even has a hard time working on my Win98.
> 
> Well, smeg. Win98 actually has something going for it.
> 
> I probably play more DOS-based games than newer games. Personally, I've
> had no problems running BaK on Win98.
> 
> Craig J. Ries
> 
> 


Fenyx Kell.



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I might be of some service for this particular problem. Windows
versions up to 98 Second Edition could run both games fine with the
right settings. 
However, with the 16 bit architecture and DOS interface being
completely wiped with the advent of ME in preparation for XP, the
rules have changed.

This is not to say that it is not possible to use your computer for
both games. Return to Krondor should work on any of the new systems
period. Betrayal at Krondor as you said is a pickle. I have gotten it
to run under Windows XP and Windows ME without sound. 

You have two options, both of which I can help. Go without the sound
and keep it in Windows or go the bootdisk approach. When you want to
play, just restart the game with the bootdisk in the drive. If you
(anyone) need help or want a generic copy of the bootdisk, e-mail
me. Note: It may need fine tuning for sound support.

Sincerely,

David P. Rouse
Force PC





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Sylvain Guehl wrote:
> With Win Xp I had to create a new hard drive partition of 2 GB
> where I installed DOS 6.22 and Win 3.11 just to be able to play my
> old DOS games... on my P3 600 Mhz :) Some games like Comanche are
> just too fast to be played, but BaK keeps a fair taste :)

There are utilities out on the net that will slow these games down.
I've had that problem, with the game being too fast, with X-Com as well
:)

That's an interesting way of doing it, with the partition. With my
having a second, smaller hdd (only 6gig) and a 20gig primary hdd, it's
not a bad idea to install DOS on it (wish I had a copy! :)), and god
forbid I do still have a copy of Win3.1 on disk. Heh. :)

Craig J. Ries



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Subject: Re: Betrayal at Krondor PC game tech question
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Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 19:39:58 -0700
Subject: Re: Betrayal at Krondor PC game tech question
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
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On Tuesday, April 30, 2002, at 06:40 PM, Gkhd11a@aol.com wrote:

>      It would seem to me that Sierra should remake it for windows. 
>  With modern graphics, voice overs, a quality soundtrack, and a few 
> tweaks on gameplay, I don't see how the game could not sell.  With 
> Sierra having it's troubles, I would think it would want to cash in on 
> what it has.  Oh well, me asking won't do any good, but I guess if you 
> really want something done the way you want it, then you have to do it 
> yourself.  I heard that there is a programming book out there with the 
> BaK source code, so you could modify it like people have with Max Payne 
> and Half-Life.  Have you ever heard of it, Ray?
>
>
>
Sierra doesn't have the rights to any new games.  The only way you could 
get them to redo BaK is to show them how to make money doing it.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.

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Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 20:39:35 -0600
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
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Raymond Feist wrote:
> 
> Sierra doesn't have the rights to any new games. The only way you
> could get them to redo BaK is to show them how to make money doing it.

Actually, I think you can download the full version of BaK from the
Sierra website :P

Further lack of incentive for them to do a Win version :)

Craig J. Ries



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From: "Alex Loke" <nerf@alphalink.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: this applies to all astablished writers
Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 12:54:16 +1000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Hullo,

----- Original Message -----
From: "Justin" <justin.carew@ntlworld.com>
> I just wanted to ask how you became
> official writers. Not all the stuff
> about 'i wanted to be a writer since a
> young age' but what transformed the
> dream into a reality.

I'm not sure if a first contract really counts as an 'official writer' but
here goes:

I started writing in Grade 6 (at about eleven years old), submitted work to
every publication I was interested in, got published by a ~1,000,000
circulation newspaper (Australian/Melbourne Feisties will know The Age)
because I *happened* to have a teacher who was good friends with an editor
who *happened* to fall in love with my writing style. Picked up my first pay
check for $525.16 AU. A kid at age eleven with $525.16 is a dangerous thing.

Didn't really bother with the whole internet thing myself. Mainly because I
had heard horror stories of plagiarism, legal difficulties and I also feared
being lost in the sea of amateur writers. I wrote some things online with
little recognition in the right circles. Representation helped much, when I
discovered a literary agent at eighteen. One thing I found was that it was
harder to get the agent than get published. Some people don't feel
representation is necessary - I do.

I write every day. I write at odd hours. Some days I wake up in the morning
with an idea I write till sometime in the afternoon. I throw away about 60%
of what I write. I don't get 'writers block'. People will tell you it's
'hard work' but I never consider doing what I love to be 'hard work'. More
like 'physically draining entertainment'.

I now write a column in an internet newspaper, purely for my own enjoyment
( Places to Go, People to Be http://ptgptb.org/0021/index.html ) and
occasionally review role-playing supplements for pay.

The factors that transformed said dream?

- Persistence
- Practice
- Luck
- Some skill
- Damn fine representation.

Sorry to take up so much 'time', I just thought I'd share.

Regards,

Alex Loke
nerf@alphalink.com.au

<INSERT WITTY LINE HERE>



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From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Betrayal at Krondor PC game tech question
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 13:19:42 +1000 (GMT+1000)
From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Betrayal at Krondor PC game tech question
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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> > With Win Xp I had to create a new hard drive partition of 2 GB where I installed DOS 6.22 and Win 3.11 just to be able to play my old DOS games... on my P3 600 Mhz :) Some games like Comanche are just too fast to be played, but BaK keeps a fair taste :)
> There are utilities out on the net that will slow these games down.
> I've had that problem, with the game being too fast, with X-Com as well
> :)
> Craig J. Ries

mo'slow being a prime example....

I use this to play Ultima 7 (the best RPG ever made imoho *g*, pity EA
bought origin out....Richard Garriot was a genius)

Thanks
Darragh
================================================
University of Queensland
Information Technology / Arts (History) student
[Email #1] s356179@student.uq.edu.au
[Email #2] squik@solutionone.com.au
[Web Site] http://hainsworth.ath.cx/~squik/
================================================



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From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Betrayal at Krondor PC game tech question
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 13:22:48 +1000 (GMT+1000)
From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Betrayal at Krondor PC game tech question
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> >      It would seem to me that Sierra should remake it for windows.
> >  With modern graphics, voice overs, a quality soundtrack, and a few
> > tweaks on gameplay, I don't see how the game could not sell.  With
> > Sierra having it's troubles, I would think it would want to cash in on
> > what it has.  Oh well, me asking won't do any good, but I guess if you
> > really want something done the way you want it, then you have to do it
> > yourself.  I heard that there is a programming book out there with the
> > BaK source code, so you could modify it like people have with Max Payne
> > and Half-Life.  Have you ever heard of it, Ray?
> Sierra doesn't have the rights to any new games.  The only way you could
> get them to redo BaK is to show them how to make money doing it.
> Best, R.E.F.

Ray, is your stance on re-writing games (suck as BaK) simliar to your
position on fan fic?

Just wondering, because I notice a whole lot of people are 're-doing' the
early Ultima series with 3D engines (for example Ultima 1).

They 'claim' to have the blessing of Richard Garriot, but I think EA owns
the ultima series...

Would you be against someone (and I'm not volunteering *g*)
're-vitalising' BaK?


Thanks
Darragh
================================================
University of Queensland
Information Technology / Arts (History) student
[Email #1] s356179@student.uq.edu.au
[Email #2] squik@solutionone.com.au
[Web Site] http://hainsworth.ath.cx/~squik/
================================================



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Subject: Re: Betrayal at Krondor PC game tech question
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Darren McClung" <dmcclung1@kc.rr.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Betrayal at Krondor PC game tech question
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 22:39:17 -0500
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You are correct sir.

EMS was the main reason BaK was such a pain to get to work in anything but
pure DOS mode.  I believe it can be done in WinME, but you will probably
have to create a custom .pif file for the .exe and manually give it large
chunk of EMS.  To be honest though, I think you'd have better luck
installing a Linux partition and trying to get it to work under DOSEMU than
getting it working under WinME.  :)

The main reason sound won't work is the way sound was done.  Every single
one of the sound effects in BaK were done in _MIDI_!  (I remember the first
time I played BaK after getting a wavetable soundcard -- that was quite
surreal)  Modern PCI sound cards don't listen on the same I/O address for
MIDI calls that the old SB16s did, so, unless you can convince your sound
card drive to emulate an SB16, (it can be done...) sound is a no-go.

I've got a 2k box around here, I might just give it a shot if I can find my
old CD.  I really enjoyed the old DOS days of staying up tweaking with your
autoexec.bat and config.sys files to resolve an IRQ conflict, or to squeaze
out that very last drop of conventional memory.  Ahh, the good old days...

Darren

----- Original Message -----
From: "Raymond Feist" <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 17:10
Subject: Re: Betrayal at Krondor PC game tech question


>
> On Tuesday, April 30, 2002, at 02:08 PM, Adam Thornton wrote:
>
> > Well i use Windoes XP, playing return to krondor on it is fine, but
> > playing
> > Betrayal at Krondor is a no go. I have successfully figured out how to
> > play
> > both Elder Scrolls 1: Arena and Elder Scrolls 2: Daggerfall, which are
> > both
> > old dos games, using windows Xp's built in memory emulator, but
> > Betrayal at
> > Krondor just refuses to recognise that i have enough memory to run the
> > game.
> > Anyone know a way around this ?
> >
>
> Check any old FAQ about the game and you'll see that it uses Expanded
> Memory instead of Extended Memory (or I may have that backwards) so just
> make sure that the Expanded memory is large enough and that you boot
> everything (including your mouse drivers) Himen.
>
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
>
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
> stupidity.
>



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Subject: RE: Betrayal at Krondor PC game tech question
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Chris Bolan" <c.bolan@ecu.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Betrayal at Krondor PC game tech question
Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 11:54:27 +0800
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I was wondering, does anyone have any details regarding the programming book
with BaK source code ?
>  -----Original Message-----
>  From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Gkhd11a@aol.com
>  Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 9:40 AM
>  To: FEISTFANS-L
>  Subject: Re: Betrayal at Krondor PC game tech question
>
>
>	It would seem to me that Sierra should remake it for windows.  With
>modern graphics, voice overs, a quality soundtrack, and a few tweaks on
>gameplay, I don't see how the game could not sell.  With Sierra having it's
>troubles, I would think it would want to cash in on what it has.  Oh well,
>me asking won't do any good, but I guess if you really want something done
>the way you want it, then you have to do it yourself.  I heard that there is
>a programming book out there with the BaK source code, so you could modify
>it like people have with Max Payne and Half-Life.  Have you ever heard of
>it, Ray?

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References: <IKEEJFMMOLDKDNDLPHBGEEDLCCAA.c.bolan@ecu.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Betrayal at Krondor PC game tech question
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 23:26:33 -0500
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Darren McClung" <dmcclung1@kc.rr.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Betrayal at Krondor PC game tech question
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 23:26:33 -0500
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The source is closed.  I doubt you'll have much luck getting anyone to give
it to you.

It probably wouldn't do you a lot of good anyway.  IIRC Steve Abrams tried
to port it to MacOS, but there were so many direct i386 hardware calls, he
gave up.  To make it work natively under Windows would require you to either
do a complete rewrite, replacing direct hardware calls with calls to
DirectX, or write your own custom wrapper.  Neither are much fun.

Darren

----- Original Message -----
>From: Chris Bolan
>To: FEISTFANS-L
>Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 22:54
>Subject: RE: Betrayal at Krondor PC game tech question
>
>
>I was wondering, does anyone have any details regarding the programming book
>with BaK source code ?
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On
>Behalf Of Gkhd11a@aol.com
>Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 9:40 AM
>To: FEISTFANS-L
>Subject: Re: Betrayal at Krondor PC game tech question
>
>
>     It would seem to me that Sierra should remake it for windows.  With
>modern graphics, voice overs, a quality soundtrack, and a few tweaks on
>gameplay, I don't see how the game could not sell.  With Sierra having it's
>troubles, I would think it would want to cash in on what it has.  Oh well,
>me asking won't do any good, but I guess if you really want something done
>the way you want it, then you have to do it yourself.  I heard that there is
>a programming book out there with the BaK source code, so you could modify
>it like people have with Max Payne and Half-Life.  Have you ever heard of
>it, Ray?
>


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From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
References: <009501c1f088$f8192320$0100000a@faithful> <003b01c1f0bb$7d114940$6f66a1ca@alexloke>
Subject: Re: this applies to all astablished writers
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 23:35:23 -0500
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: this applies to all astablished writers
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 23:35:23 -0500
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

    <LOL> Am I the only one in a field where it is customary to PAY
to have your material published?  Seriously, while most of you are
publishing and getting paid something for it, it is very common for
scientific journals to have a publication fee for a submitted
article, something in the order of $1 to $120 a page in a journal
depending on the journal.  (That $120 US is the Journal Science if I
recall my numbers correctly).  More if you have images that require
color or high amounts of ink.  However I might point out that in
deference to WHY someone might be crazy enough to do such a thing,
it is because publication in journals is a resume boost, and gets
your jobs and grants so it pays you in a different way.  Not all
writing pays off with a check...some pays off by opening other doors
for you.

-James (working on two current projects for publication, has been
published in abstract three times...not much but not bad either)

> I'm not sure if a first contract really counts as an 'official writer' but
> here goes:
>
> I started writing in Grade 6 (at about eleven years old), submitted work to
> every publication I was interested in, got published by a ~1,000,000
> circulation newspaper (Australian/Melbourne Feisties will know The Age)
> because I *happened* to have a teacher who was good friends with an editor
> who *happened* to fall in love with my writing style. Picked up my first pay
> check for $525.16 AU. A kid at age eleven with $525.16 is a dangerous thing.
>
> Didn't really bother with the whole internet thing myself. Mainly because I
> had heard horror stories of plagiarism, legal difficulties and I also feared
> being lost in the sea of amateur writers. I wrote some things online with
> little recognition in the right circles. Representation helped much, when I
> discovered a literary agent at eighteen. One thing I found was that it was
> harder to get the agent than get published. Some people don't feel
> representation is necessary - I do.
>
> I write every day. I write at odd hours. Some days I wake up in the morning
> with an idea I write till sometime in the afternoon. I throw away about 60%
> of what I write. I don't get 'writers block'. People will tell you it's
> 'hard work' but I never consider doing what I love to be 'hard work'. More
> like 'physically draining entertainment'.
>
> I now write a column in an internet newspaper, purely for my own enjoyment
> ( Places to Go, People to Be http://ptgptb.org/0021/index.html ) and
> occasionally review role-playing supplements for pay.
>
> The factors that transformed said dream?
>
> - Persistence
> - Practice
> - Luck
> - Some skill
> - Damn fine representation.
>
> Sorry to take up so much 'time', I just thought I'd share.
>
> Regards,
>
> Alex Loke
> nerf@alphalink.com.au
>
> <INSERT WITTY LINE HERE>
>



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From: "Adam Thornton" <sandman_one87@hotmail.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
References: <200204302215.AA170721904@mailx.ezaccess.net>
Subject: Re: Betrayal at Krondor PC game tech question
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Subject: Re: Betrayal at Krondor PC game tech question
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Could you please tell me how you got it to work on windows Xp without sound
?
A copy of the bootdisc i might want, but not until i've tryed it again
without sound in windows
Thanks

----- Original Message -----
From: "David Rouse" <viperphi@ezaccess.net>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <feistfans-l@cornell.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 2:15 PM
Subject: RE: Betrayal at Krondor PC game tech question


> I might be of some service for this particular problem. Windows versions
>up to 98 Second Edition could run both games fine with the right settings.
> However, with the 16 bit architecture and DOS interface being completely
>wiped with the advent of ME in preparation for XP, the rules have changed.
>
> This is not to say that it is not possible to use your computer for both
>games. Return to Krondor should work on any of the new systems period.
>Betrayal at Krondor as you said is a pickle. I have gotten it to run under
>Windows XP and Windows ME without sound.
>
> You have two options, both of which I can help. Go without the sound and
>keep it in Windows or go the bootdisk approach. When you want to play, just
>restart the game with the bootdisk in the drive. If you (anyone) need help
>or want a generic copy of the bootdisk, e-mail me. Note: It may need fine
>tuning for sound support.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> David P. Rouse
> Force PC
>
>
>
>



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To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Betrayal at Krondor PC game tech question
Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 15:28:23 +0800
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*** EOOH ***
From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Betrayal at Krondor PC game tech question
Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 15:28:23 +0800
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

In the downloaded version there is a file called bakts.wri

The last topic in the file is instructions on how to create a boot disk.

David

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu 
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Adam Thornton
> Sent: Wednesday, 1 May 2002 2:38 PM
> To: FEISTFANS-L
> Subject: Re: Betrayal at Krondor PC game tech question
> 
> 
> Could you please tell me how you got it to work on windows Xp 
> without sound
> ?
> A copy of the bootdisc i might want, but not until i've tryed it again
> without sound in windows
> Thanks
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "David Rouse" <viperphi@ezaccess.net>
> To: "FEISTFANS-L" <feistfans-l@cornell.edu>
> Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 2:15 PM
> Subject: RE: Betrayal at Krondor PC game tech question
> 
> 
> > I might be of some service for this particular problem. 
> Windows versions
> up to 98 Second Edition could run both games fine with the 
> right settings.
> > However, with the 16 bit architecture and DOS interface 
> being completely
> wiped with the advent of ME in preparation for XP, the rules 
> have changed.
> >
> > This is not to say that it is not possible to use your 
> computer for both
> games. Return to Krondor should work on any of the new systems period.
> Betrayal at Krondor as you said is a pickle. I have gotten it 
> to run under
> Windows XP and Windows ME without sound.
> >
> > You have two options, both of which I can help. Go without 
> the sound and
> keep it in Windows or go the bootdisk approach. When you want 
> to play, just
> restart the game with the bootdisk in the drive. If you 
> (anyone) need help
> or want a generic copy of the bootdisk, e-mail me. Note: It 
> may need fine
> tuning for sound support.
> >
> > Sincerely,
> >
> > David P. Rouse
> > Force PC
> >
> >
> >
> >
> 



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Subject: RE: Betrayal at Krondor PC game tech question
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 01 May 2002 03:02:58 -0600
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Nelson Hicks <thegriffin@pcs-mo.com>
Subject: RE: Betrayal at Krondor PC game tech question
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Heya,

I haven't had a chance to try it out myself, but the VDMSound project page 
at http://www.ece.mcgill.ca/~vromas/vdmsound/ has a compatibility list that 
includes Betrayal at Krondor among the dos games it supports.  The program 
enables sound support for dos games in WinNT/2k/XP.  If you haven't 
already, you might try it.

There was also another project mentioned, SoundFX 2000, that does the same 
thing.  It's available at http://www.softsystem.co.uk/page4.htm

Between those two options, you might get Betrayal at Krondor working with 
sound under XP.

At 10:15 PM 4/30/2002 -0400, you wrote:

>I might be of some service for this particular problem. Windows versions 
>up to 98 Second Edition could run both games fine with the right settings.
>However, with the 16 bit architecture and DOS interface being completely 
>wiped with the advent of ME in preparation for XP, the rules have changed.
>
>This is not to say that it is not possible to use your computer for both 
>games. Return to Krondor should work on any of the new systems period. 
>Betrayal at Krondor as you said is a pickle. I have gotten it to run under 
>Windows XP and Windows ME without sound.
>
>You have two options, both of which I can help. Go without the sound and 
>keep it in Windows or go the bootdisk approach. When you want to play, 
>just restart the game with the bootdisk in the drive. If you (anyone) need 
>help or want a generic copy of the bootdisk, e-mail me. Note: It may need 
>fine tuning for sound support.
>
>Sincerely,
>
>David P. Rouse
>Force PC

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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: Movie
In-Reply-To: <F2699IgPOV5BrCQLayI00004d83@hotmail.com>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 01 May 2002 09:01:55 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: Movie
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

...and that you lot think that putting mayonnaise on your french fries (which, I
do admit are /Belgian/ in origin) is "normal".

eeeeuuchhh.

rip

At 16:26 30/04/2002, you wrote:
>Okay, perhaps you're right. But don't worry, I'm probably just action stupid occasionally 'cause I'm still a bit excited about this fan list. I promise I'll think harder before commenting something, okay?
>(But besides Jean-Claude Van Damme, there's nothing wrong with Belgium :))
>Wouter
>
>
>>From: Joel Rosenberg <joelr@ellegon.com>
>>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
>>Subject: Re: Movie
>>Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 12:35:55 -0500
>>
>>"Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
>>Belgian citizenship"?
>>
>>:)
>>
>>On Monday 29 April 2002 12:21 pm, you wrote:
>>> I didn't really mean nasty, and I'm sorry if that was offensive. Since my
>>> English isn't all that great, it may occur that I have some difficulties
>>> expressing myself in the exact same way I'm thinking about something. And
>>> since I live in Belgium, I don't think you can blame me for that. But I
>>> think you understood what I meant, right?
>>>
>>>
>>> From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
>>>
>>> >Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>>> >To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
>>> >Subject: Re: Movie
>>> >Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 09:28:15 -0700
>>> >
>>> >On Monday, April 29, 2002, at 09:06 AM, Wouter Durnez wrote:
>>> >>Mr.. Feist (can I call you Ray, like everyone else? :-) ), please don't
>>> >>think that we don't appreciate it, when you answer our questions. I
>>> >>know, sometimes we can be a bit of a burden, but don't quit the list
>>> >>because of a nasty mail. And about the movie, I understand that you're
>>> >>in a difficult position to comment that subject, so I'll only ask one
>>> >>thing. Please let us be among the first to know, if it is certain that
>>> >>there will be a movie.
>>> >>Thanks
>>> >
>>> >I'm not thinking of quitting the list.  And Jason's note wasn't "nasty,"
>>> >rather it was ill thought-out.  He's usually one of the better posters
>>> >on the list.
>>> >
>>> >I just get tired of the "if you let someone else do it, you must only be
>>> >in it for the money" tone that pops up.  Not all writers are as
>>> >anal-retentive and control freakish as many fans appear to be.
>>> >
>>> >Anyone who has read the original Frank Herbert screenplay for Dune would
>>> >instantly realize that many times the author of the book is the last
>>> >person you want adapting it to film.
>>> >
>>> >Best, R.E.F.
>>> >----
>>> >
>>> >Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
>>> >stupidity.
>>>
>>> _________________________________________________________________
>>> MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
>>> http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
>
>
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.



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Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 18:32:18 +1000
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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Anestis Kozakis <kenosti@labyrinth.net.au>
Subject: RE: Betrayal at Krondor PC game tech question
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 18:32:18 +1000
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Anestis Kozakis <kenosti@labyrinth.net.au>
Subject: RE: Betrayal at Krondor PC game tech question
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

>With Win Xp I had to create a new hard drive partition of 2 GB where 
>I installed DOS 6.22 and Win 3.11 just to be able to play my old DOS 
>games... on my P3 600 Mhz :) Some games like Comanche are just too 
>fast to be played, but BaK keeps a fair taste :)

Is it me or are people doing things the difficult way around?

Buy a second hard disk, a removable hard drive bay plus two hard 
drive bay chassis.

remnove your original hard drive and install the bay.

Install your current Hard drive in one of the chassis and use it for 
all your work and whatever else and Windows games etc.

Install your newly acquired hard drive in the second chassis, install 
your favourite version of DOS plus drivers for CD-ROM, Soundcard, 
mouse, etc, and away you go to play all your old DOS games.

Simple, efficient, and a breeze to switch between OS's.

>Syl

Anestis.

>  > Don't bother with DOS programs beyond win98, bill has removed the 16bit
>>  libraries required to run DOS programs.... (and they aint coming back!).
>>  You might find bill looks ONLY ahead, never behind.
>>
>  > -----Original Message-----
>  > From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>  >
>>  James Young wrote:
>>  >
>>  > Nope. I don't know anyone who has successfully transferred that
>>  > particular game to anything beyond Win98 and kept it fully
>>  > functioning. It even has a hard time working on my Win98.
>>
>>  Well, smeg. Win98 actually has something going for it.
>>
>>  I probably play more DOS-based games than newer games. Personally, I've
>>  had no problems running BaK on Win98.
>>
>  > Craig J. Ries
>Fenyx Kell.


-- 
kenosti@labyrinth.net.au
"A complete list of this film's associate producers
  is available upon request."
    -- In End Credits for "State and Main"



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From: "Stuart Maher" <stuart.maher@ntlworld.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Betrayal at Krondor PC game tech question
Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 09:59:15 +0100
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Stuart Maher" <stuart.maher@ntlworld.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Betrayal at Krondor PC game tech question
Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 09:59:15 +0100
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

It runs fine on XP.

If that helps? Which it probably doesn't!

Stu

-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of rob tavares
>Sent: 30 April 2002 20:53
>To: FEISTFANS-L
>Subject: Betrayal at Krondor PC game tech question
>
>
>Hey fella's. I'm in a pickle. I got this supped up computer, 256 meg
>ram, 60 gig hd, Pentium 4, 21" flatscreen, etc, etc, etc. with
>windowsME.
>
>If any of you know windows ME, you know that it is the one OS that runs
>w/o dos. Thus my favorite game. Betrayal at krondor. Refuses to run. And
>after 14 emails back and forth from sierra tech, they claim unjustly
>that they can offer no further assistance.
>
>Question: have any of you guys gotten BaK to work on winME?
>
>--
>


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From: "rob tavares" <vze26fdh@verizon.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Betrayal at Krondor PC game tech question
Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 06:14:13 -0400
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*** EOOH ***
From: "rob tavares" <vze26fdh@verizon.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Betrayal at Krondor PC game tech question
Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 06:14:13 -0400
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Got a stupid question here guys.
Bootdisk's are meant to make computers boot to dos right? WindowsME
doesn't have dos. I tried a dozen times using the sierra utility to
create a boot disk(instructions found on website faq's) to no avail.

-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Stuart Maher
>Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 4:59 AM
>To: FEISTFANS-L
>Subject: RE: Betrayal at Krondor PC game tech question
>
>It runs fine on XP.
>
>If that helps? Which it probably doesn't!
>
>Stu
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of rob tavares
>Sent: 30 April 2002 20:53
>To: FEISTFANS-L
>Subject: Betrayal at Krondor PC game tech question
>
>
>Hey fella's. I'm in a pickle. I got this supped up computer, 256 meg
>ram, 60 gig hd, Pentium 4, 21" flatscreen, etc, etc, etc. with
>windowsME.
>
>If any of you know windows ME, you know that it is the one OS that runs
>w/o dos. Thus my favorite game. Betrayal at krondor. Refuses to run. And
>after 14 emails back and forth from sierra tech, they claim unjustly
>that they can offer no further assistance.
>
>Question: have any of you guys gotten BaK to work on winME?
>
>--
>


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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed,  1 May 2002 13:56:21 +0000
Subject: Re: Betrayal at Krondor PC game tech question
From: "Sylvain Guehl" <fenyxkell@demo.xandmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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> That's an interesting way of doing it, with the partition. With my
> having a second, smaller hdd (only 6gig) and a 20gig primary hdd, it's
> not a bad idea to install DOS on it (wish I had a copy! :)), and god
> forbid I do still have a copy of Win3.1 on disk. Heh. :)
> 
> Craig J. Ries

To install DOS you need a FAT16 partition, and FAT16 doesn't work with
HDD greater than 2GB in size

Syl



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Subject: Re: Movie
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed,  1 May 2002 14:01:45 +0000
Subject: Re: Movie
From: "Sylvain Guehl" <fenyxkell@demo.xandmail.com>
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Rip, I saw worse : some people (not even belgian) put both mayonnaise
and ketchup on the french fries...

Syl

> ...and that you lot think that putting mayonnaise on your french fries 
> which, I do admit are /Belgian/ in origin) is "normal".
> 
> eeeeuuchhh.
> 
> rip
> 
> At 16:26 30/04/2002, you wrote:
> >Okay, perhaps you're right. But don't worry, I'm probably just action stupid occasionally 'cause I'm still a bit excited about this fan list. I promise I'll think harder before commenting something, okay?
> >(But besides Jean-Claude Van Damme, there's nothing wrong with Belgium :))
> >Wouter
> >
> >
> >>From: Joel Rosenberg 
> >>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> >>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
> >>Subject: Re: Movie
> >>Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 12:35:55 -0500
> >>
> >>"Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
> >>Belgian citizenship"?
> >>
> >>:)
> >>
> >>On Monday 29 April 2002 12:21 pm, you wrote:
> >>> I didn't really mean nasty, and I'm sorry if that was offensive. Since my
> >>> English isn't all that great, it may occur that I have some difficulties
> >>> expressing myself in the exact same way I'm thinking about something. And
> >>> since I live in Belgium, I don't think you can blame me for that. But I
> >>> think you understood what I meant, right?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> From: Raymond Feist 
> >>>
> >>> >Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> >>> >To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
> >>> >Subject: Re: Movie
> >>> >Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 09:28:15 -0700
> >>> >
> >>> >On Monday, April 29, 2002, at 09:06 AM, Wouter Durnez wrote:
> >>> >>Mr.. Feist (can I call you Ray, like everyone else? :-) ), please don't
> >>> >>think that we don't appreciate it, when you answer our questions. I
> >>> >>know, sometimes we can be a bit of a burden, but don't quit the list
> >>> >>because of a nasty mail. And about the movie, I understand that you're
> >>> >>in a difficult position to comment that subject, so I'll only ask one
> >>> >>thing. Please let us be among the first to know, if it is certain that
> >>> >>there will be a movie.
> >>> >>Thanks
> >>> >
> >>> >I'm not thinking of quitting the list. And Jason's note wasn't "nasty,"
> >>> >rather it was ill thought-out. He's usually one of the better posters
> >>> >on the list.
> >>> >
> >>> >I just get tired of the "if you let someone else do it, you must only be
> >>> >in it for the money" tone that pops up. Not all writers are as
> >>> >anal-retentive and control freakish as many fans appear to be.
> >>> >
> >>> >Anyone who has read the original Frank Herbert screenplay for Dune would
> >>> >instantly realize that many times the author of the book is the last
> >>> >person you want adapting it to film.
> >>> >
> >>> >Best, R.E.F.
> >>> >----
> >>> >
> >>> >Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
> >>> >stupidity.
> >>>
> >>> _________________________________________________________________
> >>> MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
> >>> http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >_________________________________________________________________
> >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.
> 
> 


Fenyx Kell.



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*** EOOH ***
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Subject: RE: Movie
Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 09:26:32 -0500
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Thread-Index: AcHxG7rlkmiUV6j8SGqPsaLmy7biyQAAGKyg
From: "Lowder, Jason" <jasonl@spfld.kebcpa.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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That is actually damn tasty, just supremely high in fat!

Jason Lowder, CPA, MCP
Network Administrator
Kerber, Eck & Braeckel, LLP
Business Line: 217/789-0960

-----Original Message-----
>From: Sylvain Guehl [mailto:fenyxkell@demo.xandmail.com] 
>Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 9:02 AM
>To: FEISTFANS-L
>Subject: Re: Movie
>
>Rip, I saw worse : some people (not even belgian) put both mayonnaise and
>ketchup on the french fries...
>
>Syl
>
>> ...and that you lot think that putting mayonnaise on your french fries 
>> which, I do admit are /Belgian/ in origin) is "normal".
>> 
>> eeeeuuchhh.
>> 
>> rip
>> 
>> At 16:26 30/04/2002, you wrote:
>> >Okay, perhaps you're right. But don't worry, I'm probably just action
>> >stupid occasionally 'cause I'm still a bit excited about this fan list. I
>> >promise I'll think harder before commenting something, okay?
>> >(But besides Jean-Claude Van Damme, there's nothing wrong with Belgium :))
>> >Wouter
>> >
>> >
>> >>From: Joel Rosenberg 
>> >>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>> >>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
>> >>Subject: Re: Movie
>> >>Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 12:35:55 -0500
>> >>
>> >>"Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
>> >>Belgian citizenship"?
>> >>
>> >>:)
>> >>
>> >>On Monday 29 April 2002 12:21 pm, you wrote:
>> >>> I didn't really mean nasty, and I'm sorry if that was offensive. Since my
>> >>> English isn't all that great, it may occur that I have some difficulties
>> >>> expressing myself in the exact same way I'm thinking about something. And
>> >>> since I live in Belgium, I don't think you can blame me for that. But I
>> >>> think you understood what I meant, right?
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> From: Raymond Feist 
>> >>>
>> >>> >Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>> >>> >To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
>> >>> >Subject: Re: Movie
>> >>> >Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 09:28:15 -0700
>> >>> >
>> >>> >On Monday, April 29, 2002, at 09:06 AM, Wouter Durnez wrote:
>> >>> >>Mr.. Feist (can I call you Ray, like everyone else? :-) ), please don't
>> >>> >>think that we don't appreciate it, when you answer our questions. I
>> >>> >>know, sometimes we can be a bit of a burden, but don't quit the list
>> >>> >>because of a nasty mail. And about the movie, I understand that you're
>> >>> >>in a difficult position to comment that subject, so I'll only ask one
>> >>> >>thing. Please let us be among the first to know, if it is certain that
>> >>> >>there will be a movie.
>> >>> >>Thanks
>> >>> >
>> >>> >I'm not thinking of quitting the list. And Jason's note wasn't "nasty,"
>> >>> >rather it was ill thought-out. He's usually one of the better posters
>> >>> >on the list.
>> >>> >
>> >>> >I just get tired of the "if you let someone else do it, you must only be
>> >>> >in it for the money" tone that pops up. Not all writers are as
>> >>> >anal-retentive and control freakish as many fans appear to be.
>> >>> >
>> >>> >Anyone who has read the original Frank Herbert screenplay for Dune would
>> >>> >instantly realize that many times the author of the book is the last
>> >>> >person you want adapting it to film.
>> >>> >
>> >>> >Best, R.E.F.
>> >>> >----
>> >>> >
>> >>> >Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
>> >>> >stupidity.
>> >>>
>> >>> _________________________________________________________________
>> >>> MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
>> >>> http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >_________________________________________________________________
>> >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.
>> 
>> 
>
>
>Fenyx Kell.
>


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To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" (FEISTFANS-L) <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Betrayal at Krondor PC game tech question
Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 10:21:27 -0400 
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Maurin, Joe" <MaurinWJ@navair.navy.mil>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" (FEISTFANS-L) <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Betrayal at Krondor PC game tech question
Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 10:21:27 -0400 
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Make it stop now!! I'm teetering on the edge of lunacy as a result of the
inane banter!!


-----Original Message-----
>From: Sylvain Guehl [mailto:fenyxkell@demo.xandmail.com]
>Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 9:56 AM
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: Re: Betrayal at Krondor PC game tech question
>
>
>> That's an interesting way of doing it, with the partition. With my
>> having a second, smaller hdd (only 6gig) and a 20gig primary hdd, it's
>> not a bad idea to install DOS on it (wish I had a copy! :)), and god
>> forbid I do still have a copy of Win3.1 on disk. Heh. :)
>> 
>> Craig J. Ries
>
>To install DOS you need a FAT16 partition, and FAT16 doesn't work with HDD
>greater than 2GB in size
>
>Syl
>


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Subject: Re: Betrayal at Krondor PC game tech question
Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 22:08:41 +0800
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Western Rhythm" <info@westernrhythm.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Betrayal at Krondor PC game tech question
Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 22:08:41 +0800
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

IMHO
Get rid of WindowsME, its the worst operating system around, I had it
installed and it used to crash my machine on a regular daily basis. Go back
to Win98 or XP much stablier releases.

WinMe does have a Dos Prompt, and it should allow you to Play Return to
Krondor is that the original problem? Mine worked fine on WINME cept for the
usual system crashes.

----- Original Message -----
From: "rob tavares" <vze26fdh@verizon.net>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 6:14 PM
Subject: RE: Betrayal at Krondor PC game tech question


> Got a stupid question here guys.
> Bootdisk's are meant to make computers boot to dos right? WindowsME
> doesn't have dos. I tried a dozen times using the sierra utility to
> create a boot disk(instructions found on website faq's) to no avail.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Stuart Maher
> Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 4:59 AM
> To: FEISTFANS-L
> Subject: RE: Betrayal at Krondor PC game tech question
>
> It runs fine on XP.
>
> If that helps? Which it probably doesn't!
>
> Stu
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of rob tavares
> Sent: 30 April 2002 20:53
> To: FEISTFANS-L
> Subject: Betrayal at Krondor PC game tech question
>
>
> Hey fella's. I'm in a pickle. I got this supped up computer, 256 meg
> ram, 60 gig hd, Pentium 4, 21" flatscreen, etc, etc, etc. with
> windowsME.
>
> If any of you know windows ME, you know that it is the one OS that runs
> w/o dos. Thus my favorite game. Betrayal at krondor. Refuses to run. And
> after 14 emails back and forth from sierra tech, they claim unjustly
> that they can offer no further assistance.
>
> Question: have any of you guys gotten BaK to work on winME?
>
> --



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From: "Wouter Durnez" <arutha_of_krondor@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: this applies to all astablished writers
Date: Wed, 01 May 2002 15:13:13 +0000
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*** EOOH ***
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From: "Wouter Durnez" <arutha_of_krondor@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: this applies to all astablished writers
Date: Wed, 01 May 2002 15:13:13 +0000
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Did you think off being a writer all your life, or did you just like 
writing? And was it obvious very soon that you were good at writing? I mean 
like in elementary school, did you stun people with your skills back then? 
Or did you grow to be a writer throughout your life? (I hope you get what I 
mean :S )


>From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
>Subject: Re: this applies to all astablished writers
>Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 15:08:51 -0700
>
>
>On Tuesday, April 30, 2002, at 01:32 PM, Justin wrote:
>
>>I just wanted to ask how you became
>>official writers. Not all the stuff
>>about 'i wanted to be a writer since a
>>young age' but what transformed the
>>dream into a reality.
>>
>>Justin
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>Getting paid makes one a pro.  So, when I sold Magician, I became a
>professional writer.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
>stupidity.
>




_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com



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From: "Wouter Durnez" <arutha_of_krondor@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Movie
Date: Wed, 01 May 2002 15:18:00 +0000
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*** EOOH ***
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From: "Wouter Durnez" <arutha_of_krondor@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Movie
Date: Wed, 01 May 2002 15:18:00 +0000
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Actually, they're Flemish, not Belgian. Flanders is a part of Belgium, sure, 
but that's the ONLY place the fries are good. And what's wrong with mayo? 
Mayo rules man! You know what's nasty? Green ketchup.
Wouter


>From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
>Subject: Re: Movie
>Date: Wed, 01 May 2002 09:01:55 +0100
>
>...and that you lot think that putting mayonnaise on your french fries 
>(which, I
>do admit are /Belgian/ in origin) is "normal".
>
>eeeeuuchhh.
>
>rip
>
>At 16:26 30/04/2002, you wrote:
> >Okay, perhaps you're right. But don't worry, I'm probably just action 
>stupid occasionally 'cause I'm still a bit excited about this fan list. I 
>promise I'll think harder before commenting something, okay?
> >(But besides Jean-Claude Van Damme, there's nothing wrong with Belgium 
>:))
> >Wouter
> >
> >
> >>From: Joel Rosenberg <joelr@ellegon.com>
> >>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> >>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
> >>Subject: Re: Movie
> >>Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 12:35:55 -0500
> >>
> >>"Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
> >>Belgian citizenship"?
> >>
> >>:)
> >>
> >>On Monday 29 April 2002 12:21 pm, you wrote:
> >>> I didn't really mean nasty, and I'm sorry if that was offensive. Since 
>my
> >>> English isn't all that great, it may occur that I have some 
>difficulties
> >>> expressing myself in the exact same way I'm thinking about something. 
>And
> >>> since I live in Belgium, I don't think you can blame me for that. But 
>I
> >>> think you understood what I meant, right?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
> >>>
> >>> >Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> >>> >To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
> >>> >Subject: Re: Movie
> >>> >Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 09:28:15 -0700
> >>> >
> >>> >On Monday, April 29, 2002, at 09:06 AM, Wouter Durnez wrote:
> >>> >>Mr.. Feist (can I call you Ray, like everyone else? :-) ), please 
>don't
> >>> >>think that we don't appreciate it, when you answer our questions. I
> >>> >>know, sometimes we can be a bit of a burden, but don't quit the list
> >>> >>because of a nasty mail. And about the movie, I understand that 
>you're
> >>> >>in a difficult position to comment that subject, so I'll only ask 
>one
> >>> >>thing. Please let us be among the first to know, if it is certain 
>that
> >>> >>there will be a movie.
> >>> >>Thanks
> >>> >
> >>> >I'm not thinking of quitting the list.  And Jason's note wasn't 
>"nasty,"
> >>> >rather it was ill thought-out.  He's usually one of the better 
>posters
> >>> >on the list.
> >>> >
> >>> >I just get tired of the "if you let someone else do it, you must only 
>be
> >>> >in it for the money" tone that pops up.  Not all writers are as
> >>> >anal-retentive and control freakish as many fans appear to be.
> >>> >
> >>> >Anyone who has read the original Frank Herbert screenplay for Dune 
>would
> >>> >instantly realize that many times the author of the book is the last
> >>> >person you want adapting it to film.
> >>> >
> >>> >Best, R.E.F.
> >>> >----
> >>> >
> >>> >Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away 
>by
> >>> >stupidity.
> >>>
> >>> _________________________________________________________________
> >>> MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
> >>> http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >_________________________________________________________________
> >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at 
>http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.
>




_________________________________________________________________
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http://www.hotmail.com



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Subject: Re: Betrayal at Krondor PC game tech question
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 08:39:17 -0700
Subject: Re: Betrayal at Krondor PC game tech question
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
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On Tuesday, April 30, 2002, at 08:22 PM, Darragh Murray wrote:

>>>      It would seem to me that Sierra should remake it for windows.
>>>  With modern graphics, voice overs, a quality soundtrack, and a few
>>> tweaks on gameplay, I don't see how the game could not sell.  With
>>> Sierra having it's troubles, I would think it would want to cash in on
>>> what it has.  Oh well, me asking won't do any good, but I guess if you
>>> really want something done the way you want it, then you have to do it
>>> yourself.  I heard that there is a programming book out there with the
>>> BaK source code, so you could modify it like people have with Max 
>>> Payne
>>> and Half-Life.  Have you ever heard of it, Ray?
>> Sierra doesn't have the rights to any new games.  The only way you 
>> could
>> get them to redo BaK is to show them how to make money doing it.
>> Best, R.E.F.
>
> Ray, is your stance on re-writing games (suck as BaK) simliar to your
> position on fan fic?
>
> Just wondering, because I notice a whole lot of people are 're-doing' 
> the
> early Ultima series with 3D engines (for example Ultima 1).
>
> They 'claim' to have the blessing of Richard Garriot, but I think EA 
> owns
> the ultima series...
>
> Would you be against someone (and I'm not volunteering *g*)
> 're-vitalising' BaK?
>

That would be up to Sierra.  Sierra holds the rights to BaK.  If they 
don't care if someone else redesigns it, i have to then go to my lawyers 
and see how such a thing might impact my underlying rights.  Utilma is 
not based on a literary concept, so there are issues around BaK and RtK 
that don't apply to Ultima.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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On Tuesday, April 30, 2002, at 08:54 PM, Chris Bolan wrote:

> I was wondering, does anyone have any details regarding the programming 
> book with BaK source code ?

Oh, ya.

Steve tried to recompile the code for a try at  a Mac version, and we 
discovered 1) the documentation was horrible 2) the programming team 
made endless numbers of direct calls to the hardware that were 
non-standard 3) even Sierra's own Mac compiler couldn't root out the DOS 
calls and substitute the correct Mac calls. 4) etc.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.

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From: "Justin" <justin.carew@ntlworld.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
References: <009501c1f088$f8192320$0100000a@faithful> <003b01c1f0bb$7d114940$6f66a1ca@alexloke> <006601c1f0c9$9d0185e0$74e479a5@oemcomputer>
Subject: Re: this applies to all established writers
Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 16:18:54 +0100
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From: "Justin" <justin.carew@ntlworld.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: this applies to all established writers
Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 16:18:54 +0100
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Maybe I should rephrase the question as
you all have answered me in different
ways.

If you want to become a writer and you
have written a few things, how do get
from stories you've done in your spare
time to published work. I've heard of
putting stories in newspapers to get
yourself known but I don't know any
newspapers in scotland who accept
stories. Also do newspapers and
publishers consider you if you are at a
young age as I am. I know that Alex got
something printed when he was younger
than me but I don't have a teacher who's
friends with an editor.

Justin


----- Original Message -----
From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: "FEISTFANS-L"
<FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 5:35 AM
Subject: Re: this applies to all
astablished writers


|     <LOL> Am I the only one in a field where it is customary to PAY
| to have your material published? Seriously, while most of you are
| publishing and getting paid something for it, it is very common for
| scientific journals to have a publication fee for a submitted
| article, something in the order of $1 to $120 a page in a journal
| depending on the journal.  (That $120 US is the Journal Science if I
| recall my numbers correctly).  More if you have images that require
| color or high amounts of ink.  However I might point out that in
| deference to WHY someone might be crazy enough to do such a thing,
| it is because publication in journals is a resume boost, and gets
| your jobs and grants so it pays you in a different way.  Not all
| writing pays off with a check...some pays off by opening other doors
| for you.
|
| -James (working on two current projects for publication, has been
| published in abstract three times...not much but not bad either)
|
| > I'm not sure if a first contract really counts as an 'official
| writer' but
| > here goes:
| >
| > I started writing in Grade 6 (at about eleven years old),
| submitted work to
| > every publication I was interested in, got published by a
| ~1,000,000
| > circulation newspaper (Australian/Melbourne Feisties will know The
| Age)
| > because I *happened* to have a teacher who was good friends with
| an editor
| > who *happened* to fall in love with my writing style. Picked up my
| first pay
| > check for $525.16 AU. A kid at age eleven with $525.16 is a
| dangerous thing.
| >
| > Didn't really bother with the whole internet thing myself. Mainly
| because I
| > had heard horror stories of plagiarism, legal difficulties and I
| also feared
| > being lost in the sea of amateur writers. I wrote some things
| online with
| > little recognition in the right circles. Representation helped
| much, when I
| > discovered a literary agent at eighteen. One thing I found was
| that it was
| > harder to get the agent than get published. Some people don't feel
| > representation is necessary - I do.
| >
| > I write every day. I write at odd hours. Some days I wake up in
| the morning
| > with an idea I write till sometime in the afternoon. I throw away
| about 60%
| > of what I write. I don't get 'writers block'. People will tell you
| it's
| > 'hard work' but I never consider doing what I love to be 'hard
| work'. More
| > like 'physically draining entertainment'.
| >
| > I now write a column in an internet newspaper, purely for my own
| enjoyment
| > ( Places to Go, People to Be http://ptgptb.org/0021/index.html )
| and
| > occasionally review role-playing supplements for pay.
| >
| > The factors that transformed said dream?
| >
| > - Persistence
| > - Practice
| > - Luck
| > - Some skill
| > - Damn fine representation.
| >
| > Sorry to take up so much 'time', I just thought I'd share.
| >
| > Regards,
| >
| > Alex Loke
| > nerf@alphalink.com.au
| >
| > <INSERT WITTY LINE HERE>
| >
|
|



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From: "Jason Martin" <res0b95g@verizon.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: OT:  Need Cat Help
Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 09:21:23 -0700
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From: "Jason Martin" <res0b95g@verizon.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: OT:  Need Cat Help
Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 09:21:23 -0700
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

    Sorry to do this, but I'm at my wits end on a problem my cat is having.
3 weeks ago my cat Scully started acting strange.  He was having troubles
using the bathroom.  So the next day I took him to the Vet to see what was
going on.  Once there we come to find that he had his bladder blocked and
was rather large.  X-rays came out negative for stones and they even blew
air into his bladder to look for non-opaqe stones(I think thats what they
are).  he also did not have an UTI.    After that failed, they gave him a
Cathader to drain the bladder.  They concluded that it was a possible Mucas
Plug and that the cathader helped get rid of it.  After that he seemed to be
fine and we were allowed to take him home after a few days.
    Now that he is home he seems fine, but will not use the Litter Box  like
he normally did.  He insists on peeing in the living room along with
defecating.  Nothing we seem to try works on getting him to stop. He has
always been very good about using the litterbox.  I just don't know if he is
doing this to let us know he is mad or getting back at us for taking him to
the vet for a few days, or if he is still having some type of problem..?
Has anyone else had anything similiar to this or can point me in a direction
to read some more stuff on this about?  I really do not want to take him
back to the vet, since the last time there the bill was rather large...
Sorry for the OT letter, but this list is pretty knowledgable.

Thanks,

Jason

PS if you feel the need to flame me over this, Send it to me and not the
list.

"Too much knowlege never makes for simple decisions."
                           Ghanima- Children of Dune



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From: "Steve Weghorn" <pelvislives@hotmail.com>
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Subject: how to get published
Date: Wed, 01 May 2002 13:20:40 -0400
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Justin the best way to get published is to find an agent, do a search
on the web, but be careful there are a lot of phonies out there that
just want to take your money.  Remember that if any of them ask you
for payment upfront then their not a real agent.  Real agents don't
get paid until you get published.  The only other option open to you
is self publishing, which I don't recommend.

Hope that helped

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From: Andrea J Chee <andrea@bloodaxe.com>
Subject: Re: this applies to all established writers
References: <009501c1f088$f8192320$0100000a@faithful>
 <003b01c1f0bb$7d114940$6f66a1ca@alexloke>
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Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 18:26:34 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Andrea J Chee <andrea@bloodaxe.com>
Subject: Re: this applies to all established writers
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In article <003401c1f123$c5db0860$0100000a@faithful>, Justin
<justin.carew@ntlworld.com> writes

>If you want to become a writer and you
>have written a few things, how do get
>from stories you've done in your spare
>time to published work. I've heard of
>putting stories in newspapers to get
>yourself known but I don't know any
>newspapers in scotland who accept
>stories. 

By stories, do you mean fiction? Few newspapers print fiction. Even when
it's non-fiction, there's little market in newspapers unless it's a
specialist subject (for example, if they have a technology section they
may take technology articles from outsiders), and it's competitive.

In the cases of both fiction and non-fiction, your best bets are
specialist publications. In terms of fiction, there are magazines that
publish stories. I understand that the short story market is hugely
competitive, and deluged with rubbish though, so you tend to have to
bang away at it for a while. I don't know the market well, so I can't
offer more than that on it.

If it's non-fiction, look for the appropriate market. In particular,
never underestimate the power of the trade press (magazines sold by
subscription to people in specialist markets, such as businesses or
technology) in the UK - it pays well and gets you good clips (the
samples of published work that get you your next commission). 

You may never have heard of 'Insurance Times', 'Travel Retailer
International', 'Confection' (yes, there is indeed a trade rag about
making sweets; in fact there are several), the 'European Telecoms
Intelligence Bulletin', or the rest of the 7,000-odd trades published in
the UK, but they're all paying markets - all the mags I mention there by
name have helped pay my bills along the way. The only thing to remember
about writing for them is that most of your readers know more about the
subject than you do, so you need to do your research carefully and check
your facts.

Also, there's no need to restrict yourself to Scotland. Technology means
we can work in a global environment. I work for publishers all over
Europe (just finished copy-editing a book for a German publisher, for
example). Most markets are open to you if you do the research it takes
to prepare something in the right style for a specific market.

Finding the markets is more of an art form. Some mags will be listed in
the 'Writers Handbook' (I believe the US equivalent is called 'Writers
Market'), published annually and available at many bookshops. Listed
publishers do tend to get a lot of unsolicited stuff though, so you may
find your work disappears into the morass. 

I've found it much more productive to find alternative ways of seeking
out markets. Searching the net for the subjects that I may want to write
about can be helpful - some sites have links to the website of their
favourite print publication, for example. Media UK
<http://www.mediauk.com/> is also useful. However, I found the most
useful of all were the media job ads in The Guardian on Monday - I don't
apply for any of the jobs, just gather the details of magazines I might
want to pitch to.

>Also do newspapers and
>publishers consider you if you are at a
>young age as I am. I know that Alex got
>something printed when he was younger
>than me but I don't have a teacher who's
>friends with an editor.

Most editors couldn't care less how old you are. In fact, there are many
editors I've written for who've never met me in the flesh (actually,
these days the majority have never met me), and many writers who have
written for me that I've never met. Some of them could be purple
lobsters for all I know! 

When I have my editor's hat on, assuming they have the basic ability in
the first place (if they can't produce the goods, everything else is
moot), the things that matter are:

1) They can produce what I want - content and style.
2) They can produce it when I want it - deadlines.

That may seem like stating the obvious, but for some reason those two
simple things are the most common means by which new freelancers shoot
themselves in the feet. The second one doesn't apply so much if you're
sending unsolicited MS on spec, but the first point is still relevant.

- ANDREA

-- 
^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^
                  ANDROMEDA - Internet Goddess
<andrea@bloodaxe.com>                    http://www.bloodaxe.com/
Bloodaxe's History Links:   http://www.geocities.com/Athens/5055/
The Loony Bin Archive:               http://www.theloonies.co.uk/



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 18:28:46 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Andrea J Chee <andrea@bloodaxe.com>
Subject: Re: Movie
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

In article <F204d5Iw7AW2m8grRfZ00000beb@hotmail.com>, Wouter Durnez
<arutha_of_krondor@hotmail.com> writes
>Actually, they're Flemish, not Belgian. Flanders is a part of Belgium, sure, 
>but that's the ONLY place the fries are good. And what's wrong with mayo? 
>Mayo rules man! You know what's nasty? Green ketchup.

It's a habit I've fallen into, I must admit. But then I have many
Belgian (yes, usually Flemish) friends. It's nicer than ketchup.

That being said, Joel is quite right, there are some things that can be
"explained away by Belgian citizenship". Many of my Belgian friends use
this excuse regularly.

Tot ziens,

- ANDREA

-- 
^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^
                  ANDROMEDA - Internet Goddess
<andrea@bloodaxe.com>                    http://www.bloodaxe.com/
Bloodaxe's History Links:   http://www.geocities.com/Athens/5055/
The Loony Bin Archive:               http://www.theloonies.co.uk/



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From: "MChaloner" <markchaloner@btinternet.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Mayonnaise verus Tomato sauce
Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 18:35:58 +0100
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*** EOOH ***
From: "MChaloner" <markchaloner@btinternet.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Mayonnaise verus Tomato sauce
Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 18:35:58 +0100
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Richard Williamson
> ...and that you lot think that putting mayonnaise on your french fries
>(which, I do admit are /Belgian/ in origin) is
> "normal".
> eeeeuuchhh.
> rip

I believe it's actually Salad Cream (which is different).
Don't knock mayonnaise on chips 'til you've tried it.
I always tend to have mayonnaise now instead of tomato sauce.

Mark ;-)



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From: "Jonathan Homer" <jchomer@yahoo.co.uk>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
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Subject: Re: Mayonnaise verus Tomato sauce
Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 18:48:44 +0100
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Jonathan Homer" <jchomer@yahoo.co.uk>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Mayonnaise verus Tomato sauce
Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 18:48:44 +0100
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I know this is off topic, but I've just gotta add my pennies worth to the
debate - yep Salad Cream and chips is great - but that pales compared to
curry and chips or indeed (shudders in excitement) Gravy and Chips (side
order of Faggots as well).

Actually how did this topic start off ? :-)

Jon

----- Original Message -----
From: "MChaloner" <markchaloner@btinternet.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 6:35 PM
Subject: Mayonnaise verus Tomato sauce


: > From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
: [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Richard Williamson
: > ...and that you lot think that putting mayonnaise on your french fries
: (which, I do admit are /Belgian/ in origin) is
: > "normal".
: > eeeeuuchhh.
: > rip
:
: I believe it's actually Salad Cream (which is different).
: Don't knock mayonnaise on chips 'til you've tried it.
: I always tend to have mayonnaise now instead of tomato sauce.
:
: Mark ;-)
:


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com



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From: "Andy Holcombe" <andy_wan_kenobi@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT: Need Cat Help
Date: Wed, 01 May 2002 12:50:40 -0500
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From: "Andy Holcombe" <andy_wan_kenobi@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT: Need Cat Help
Date: Wed, 01 May 2002 12:50:40 -0500
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>From: "Jason Martin" <res0b95g@verizon.net>

>I just don't know if he is doing this to let us know he is mad or >getting 
>back at us for taking him to the vet for a few days, or if he >is still 
>having some type of problem..?

I would guess that he's mad, because cat's like to bury their waste.  That's 
why they're so easy to get litterbox trained.  The last cat I had beoieved 
that we were the pets and got very upset with us if we removed her from HER 
house.  Of course I don't recall her doing much of this.  On the other hand, 
we could have blamed it on the dogs.  Try to catch him in the act and see if 
he appears to be either surprised or in pain.  Also, the litter box may be 
associated with unpleasant memories and may need replacing.


Andy Holcombe
Andy_wan_Kenobi@hotmail.com

"To err is human, but to really foul things up requires a computer."
     -Farmers' Almanac 1978

"I don't give a damn for a man who can only spell a word one way."
     -Mark Twain

"History will be kind to me, for I intend to write it."
     -Winston Churchill

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From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: OT:  RE: Mayonnaise verus Tomato sauce
Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 02:08:32 +0800
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*** EOOH ***
From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: OT:  RE: Mayonnaise verus Tomato sauce
Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 02:08:32 +0800
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Chicken Salt and Vinegar are the only condiments required when it comes
to chips. And what is a faggot? (other than a bundle of sticks)

David

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu 
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Jonathan Homer
> Sent: Thursday, 2 May 2002 1:49 AM
> To: FEISTFANS-L
> Subject: Re: Mayonnaise verus Tomato sauce
> 
> 
> I know this is off topic, but I've just gotta add my pennies 
> worth to the
> debate - yep Salad Cream and chips is great - but that pales 
> compared to
> curry and chips or indeed (shudders in excitement) Gravy and 
> Chips (side
> order of Faggots as well).
> 
> Actually how did this topic start off ? :-)
> 
> Jon
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "MChaloner" <markchaloner@btinternet.com>
> To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 6:35 PM
> Subject: Mayonnaise verus Tomato sauce
> 
> 
> : > From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> : [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Richard 
> Williamson
> : > ...and that you lot think that putting mayonnaise on your 
> french fries
> : (which, I do admit are /Belgian/ in origin) is
> : > "normal".
> : > eeeeuuchhh.
> : > rip
> :
> : I believe it's actually Salad Cream (which is different).
> : Don't knock mayonnaise on chips 'til you've tried it.
> : I always tend to have mayonnaise now instead of tomato sauce.
> :
> : Mark ;-)
> :
> 
> 
> _________________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
> 



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From: Joel Rosenberg <joelr@ellegon.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT:  Need Cat Help
Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 13:15:47 -0500
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*** EOOH ***
From: Joel Rosenberg <joelr@ellegon.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT:  Need Cat Help
Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 13:15:47 -0500
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

There's about three explanations I can think of, and all of them mean that 
you really need to call the vet, and probably have him looked at.  



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Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 02:21:23 +0800
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From: Shawn Chung <shawnc@starhub.net.sg>
Subject: Re: OT: Need Cat Help
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Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 02:21:23 +0800
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Shawn Chung <shawnc@starhub.net.sg>
Subject: Re: OT: Need Cat Help
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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>>From: "Jason Martin" <res0b95g@verizon.net>
>
>>I just don't know if he is doing this to let us know he is mad 
>>or >getting back at us for taking him to the vet for a few days, or 
>>if he >is still having some type of problem..?
>
>I would guess that he's mad, because cat's like to bury their waste. 
>That's why they're so easy to get litterbox trained.  The last cat I 
>had beoieved that we were the pets and got very upset with us if we 
>removed her from HER house.  Of course I don't recall her doing much 
>of this.  On the other hand, we could have blamed it on the dogs. 
>Try to catch him in the act and see if he appears to be either 
>surprised or in pain.  Also, the litter box may be associated with 
>unpleasant memories and may need replacing.
>
>
>Andy Holcombe
>Andy_wan_Kenobi@hotmail.com
>

I think you have a pissed off kitty on your hands as well, but it's 
better to be save than sorry, so IMHO you should go to the vets.

How's your cat's diet?  Usually, urinary tract problems are common in 
cats that have a high biscuit diet.
-- 
----

SeeYa StarSide

Shawn Chung

--------------
"Hokey religions and Ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster 
at your side, kid."
- Han Solo

"Is it not nifty? Worship the comic."
Sluggy Freelance - www.sluggy.com



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From: "Wouter Durnez" <arutha_of_krondor@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re: Movie
Date: Wed, 01 May 2002 18:27:57 +0000
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From: "Wouter Durnez" <arutha_of_krondor@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Movie
Date: Wed, 01 May 2002 18:27:57 +0000
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Why would they give excuses? Flemish people rock man, even if I say so 
myself :-). Never heard of Luc van Lierde, the Iron Man champ? Or Eddy 
Mercx?


>From: Andrea J Chee <andrea@bloodaxe.com>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
>Subject: Re: Movie
>Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 18:28:46 +0100
>
>In article <F204d5Iw7AW2m8grRfZ00000beb@hotmail.com>, Wouter Durnez
><arutha_of_krondor@hotmail.com> writes
> >Actually, they're Flemish, not Belgian. Flanders is a part of Belgium, 
>sure,
> >but that's the ONLY place the fries are good. And what's wrong with mayo?
> >Mayo rules man! You know what's nasty? Green ketchup.
>
>It's a habit I've fallen into, I must admit. But then I have many
>Belgian (yes, usually Flemish) friends. It's nicer than ketchup.
>
>That being said, Joel is quite right, there are some things that can be
>"explained away by Belgian citizenship". Many of my Belgian friends use
>this excuse regularly.
>
>Tot ziens,
>
>- ANDREA
>
>--
>^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^
>                   ANDROMEDA - Internet Goddess
><andrea@bloodaxe.com>                    http://www.bloodaxe.com/
>Bloodaxe's History Links:   http://www.geocities.com/Athens/5055/
>The Loony Bin Archive:               http://www.theloonies.co.uk/
>




_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx



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From: "Bruce Stedman" <bjs@bjs.org.uk>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L'" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Movie
Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 18:49:30 +0100
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Bruce Stedman" <bjs@bjs.org.uk>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L'" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Movie
Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 18:49:30 +0100
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OK - Joel's picked up on one of my favourites sayings, below.

Anyway, "au contraire" always makes me think of Sherlock Holmes. Not sure
why.

The crux of the matter is that language has such an abundance of colourful
or inspiring expressions that one occasionally has the has the desire to
consult one's mental thesaurus and bring an obscure or infrequently utilised
phrase out of the proverbial closet, dust it down and insert it into one's
diction, for the benefit of the listening party.

I.e. why use a boring word when you've got a better one.


Please do go careful with the French phrases - you don't wish to sound like
Del Boy from Only Fools & Horses!

Bonjour,
BJS

-----Original Message-----
>> > Just one question Raymond, I picked you using "au contraire" in your
>> > reply... is it you who purposely took a french expression or is it a
>> > common one in english too (I mean commonly taken from french, just like
>> > "voilà" or "déjà vu") ?
>
>
>"Pretentious?  Moi?"
>


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From: "Bruce Stedman" <bjs@bjs.org.uk>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L'" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Betrayal at Krondor PC game tech question
Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 18:52:52 +0100
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From: "Bruce Stedman" <bjs@bjs.org.uk>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L'" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Betrayal at Krondor PC game tech question
Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 18:52:52 +0100
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Why don't you do what I do - have an old PC for old games.
I've a 486DX4/100 with Win95A, TVGA8900C and SBPro

Dark Side of Xeen is my current game; I think its about the same age as BaK.

Use a VGA & keyboard switch box and you're away.

BJS

-----Original Message-----
>From: Craig J. Ries [mailto:cries@yifan.net]
>Sent: 01 May 2002 00:35
>To: FEISTFANS-L
>Subject: Re: Betrayal at Krondor PC game tech question
>
>
>James Young wrote:
>>
>> Nope.  I don't know anyone who has successfully transferred that
>> particular game to anything beyond Win98 and kept it fully
>> functioning.  It even has a hard time working on my Win98.
>
>Well, smeg. Win98 actually has something going for it.
>
>I probably play more DOS-based games than newer games. Personally, I've
>had no problems running BaK on Win98.
>
>Craig J. Ries
>


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From: "Terri Lyn Layman" <terrilyn@fullnet.com>
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Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: "Terri Lyn Layman" <terrilyn@fullnet.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
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Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 14:01:12 -0500
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of David Pengelley
> Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 1:09 PM
>
> Chicken Salt and Vinegar are the only condiments required
> when it comes
> to chips. And what is a faggot? (other than a bundle of sticks)

Thanks... I thought for a minute there I was going to have to seriously hurt
someone.

I wish like hell I could figure out why it metamophosed into the more
derisive term it carries today...

*sigh*
-TerriLyn

>
> David
>
<snip>



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Subject: Re: Movie OT
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*** EOOH ***
From: RBlackley@aol.com
Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 15:11:23 EDT
Subject: Re: Movie OT
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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yeah i've done that, also when I lived in England I used to put it on pizza!!
Richard


> ...and that you lot think that putting mayonnaise on your french fries 
> (which, I
> do admit are /Belgian/ in origin) is "normal".
> 
> eeeeuuchhh.
> 
> rip
> 


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From: "Jonathan Homer" <jchomer@yahoo.co.uk>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
References: <006a01c1f13b$35947210$2100a8c0@pengelley.com>
Subject: RE: Mayonnaise verus Tomato sauce
Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 20:32:24 +0100
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Jonathan Homer" <jchomer@yahoo.co.uk>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Mayonnaise verus Tomato sauce
Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 20:32:24 +0100
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Aha Faggot - it's (sorry to any Vegetarians about BTW) - great that's what
it is. Err how can I explain ? - take some offal (lungs, heart or Kidney
there's a fair few recipes about) sorta mince 'em together, pop the mixture
into sheep's gut, wrap into little balls and braze, best served with the
nice thick gravy that accompanies the cooking (and, I'll admit, a little
Ale).

You can add vinegar and chips, traditionally in the 'Black Country' - it's
served with Mushy peas .. Hey don't knock it - best to ignore shop bought
variations - home made is best !

On another note - I'm just off to pop my order in with Amazon.co.uk for
'Murder In Lamut'

Jon


----- Original Message -----
From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 7:08 PM
Subject: OT: RE: Mayonnaise verus Tomato sauce


: Chicken Salt and Vinegar are the only condiments required when it comes
: to chips. And what is a faggot? (other than a bundle of sticks)
:
: David
:
: > -----Original Message-----
: > From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
: > [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Jonathan Homer
: > Sent: Thursday, 2 May 2002 1:49 AM
: > To: FEISTFANS-L
: > Subject: Re: Mayonnaise verus Tomato sauce
: >
: >
: > I know this is off topic, but I've just gotta add my pennies
: > worth to the
: > debate - yep Salad Cream and chips is great - but that pales
: > compared to
: > curry and chips or indeed (shudders in excitement) Gravy and
: > Chips (side
: > order of Faggots as well).
: >
: > Actually how did this topic start off ? :-)
: >
: > Jon
: >
: > ----- Original Message -----
: > From: "MChaloner" <markchaloner@btinternet.com>
: > To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
: > Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 6:35 PM
: > Subject: Mayonnaise verus Tomato sauce
: >
: >
: > : > From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
: > : [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Richard
: > Williamson
: > : > ...and that you lot think that putting mayonnaise on your
: > french fries
: > : (which, I do admit are /Belgian/ in origin) is
: > : > "normal".
: > : > eeeeuuchhh.
: > : > rip
: > :
: > : I believe it's actually Salad Cream (which is different).
: > : Don't knock mayonnaise on chips 'til you've tried it.
: > : I always tend to have mayonnaise now instead of tomato sauce.
: > :
: > : Mark ;-)
: > :
: >
: >
: > _________________________________________________________
: > Do You Yahoo!?
: > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
: >
:


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com



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From: "Bruce Stedman" <bjs@bjs.org.uk>
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Subject: RE: Secret handshake
Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 20:27:03 +0100
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Bruce Stedman" <bjs@bjs.org.uk>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L'" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
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[Me again]

I've just had a good idea.

Why not a bookmark with a graphic on it?

I.e. someone on the list pick a picture, everyone prints it out, and leaves
it poking out the book to be signed, to be spotted by Ray.

Easy!



BJS



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From: Nick Reynolds <njreynolds@students.wisc.edu>
Subject: RE: Betrayal at Krondor PC game tech question
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 01 May 2002 15:02:06 -0500
From: Nick Reynolds <njreynolds@students.wisc.edu>
Subject: RE: Betrayal at Krondor PC game tech question
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I think the book you're referring to is Swords and Circuitry: A Designer's 
Guide to Computer Role-Playing Games.  It's written by Neal Hallford, who 
was a designer of Betrayal at Krondor.  It doesn't have the BaK source code 
but it does have the design proposal for the game and an example of the 
game's script.  There's probably more in there but I haven't finished it 
yet.  It covers other games as well.

Nick

At 11:54 AM 5/1/2002 +0800, you wrote:
>I was wondering, does anyone have any details regarding the programming 
>book with BaK source code ?
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu 
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Gkhd11a@aol.com
>Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 9:40 AM
>To: FEISTFANS-L
>Subject: Re: Betrayal at Krondor PC game tech question
>
>      It would seem to me that Sierra should remake it for windows.  With 
> modern graphics, voice overs, a quality soundtrack, and a few tweaks on 
> gameplay, I don't see how the game could not sell.  With Sierra having 
> it's troubles, I would think it would want to cash in on what it has.  Oh 
> well, me asking won't do any good, but I guess if you really want 
> something done the way you want it, then you have to do it yourself.  I 
> heard that there is a programming book out there with the BaK source 
> code, so you could modify it like people have with Max Payne and 
> Half-Life.  Have you ever heard of it, Ray?



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From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Ot: Faggots & Haggis (was RE: Mayonnaise verus Tomato sauce)
Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 04:01:43 +0800
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*** EOOH ***
From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Ot: Faggots & Haggis (was RE: Mayonnaise verus Tomato sauce)
Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 04:01:43 +0800
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Sounds kinda similar to what I know of Haggis? Is it a relative? At any
rate it doesn't sound overly appealing. I'm not sure why you would want
to wreck good chips with the stuff.

David

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu 
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Jonathan Homer
> Sent: Thursday, 2 May 2002 3:32 AM
> To: FEISTFANS-L
> Subject: RE: Mayonnaise verus Tomato sauce
> 
> 
> Aha Faggot - it's (sorry to any Vegetarians about BTW) - 
> great that's what
> it is. Err how can I explain ? - take some offal (lungs, 
> heart or Kidney
> there's a fair few recipes about) sorta mince 'em together, 
> pop the mixture
> into sheep's gut, wrap into little balls and braze, best 
> served with the
> nice thick gravy that accompanies the cooking (and, I'll 
> admit, a little
> Ale).
> 
> You can add vinegar and chips, traditionally in the 'Black 
> Country' - it's
> served with Mushy peas .. Hey don't knock it - best to ignore 
> shop bought
> variations - home made is best !
> 
> On another note - I'm just off to pop my order in with 
> Amazon.co.uk for
> 'Murder In Lamut'
> 
> Jon
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
> To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 7:08 PM
> Subject: OT: RE: Mayonnaise verus Tomato sauce
> 
> 
> : Chicken Salt and Vinegar are the only condiments required 
> when it comes
> : to chips. And what is a faggot? (other than a bundle of sticks)
> :
> : David
> :
> : > -----Original Message-----
> : > From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> : > [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Jonathan Homer
> : > Sent: Thursday, 2 May 2002 1:49 AM
> : > To: FEISTFANS-L
> : > Subject: Re: Mayonnaise verus Tomato sauce
> : >
> : >
> : > I know this is off topic, but I've just gotta add my pennies
> : > worth to the
> : > debate - yep Salad Cream and chips is great - but that pales
> : > compared to
> : > curry and chips or indeed (shudders in excitement) Gravy and
> : > Chips (side
> : > order of Faggots as well).
> : >
> : > Actually how did this topic start off ? :-)
> : >
> : > Jon
> : >
> : > ----- Original Message -----
> : > From: "MChaloner" <markchaloner@btinternet.com>
> : > To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> : > Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 6:35 PM
> : > Subject: Mayonnaise verus Tomato sauce
> : >
> : >
> : > : > From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> : > : [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Richard
> : > Williamson
> : > : > ...and that you lot think that putting mayonnaise on your
> : > french fries
> : > : (which, I do admit are /Belgian/ in origin) is
> : > : > "normal".
> : > : > eeeeuuchhh.
> : > : > rip
> : > :
> : > : I believe it's actually Salad Cream (which is different).
> : > : Don't knock mayonnaise on chips 'til you've tried it.
> : > : I always tend to have mayonnaise now instead of tomato sauce.
> : > :
> : > : Mark ;-)
> : > :
> : >
> : >
> : > _________________________________________________________
> : > Do You Yahoo!?
> : > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
> : >
> :
> 
> 
> _________________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
> 



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Message-ID: <90.252cf33c.2a01a4cc@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 16:06:36 EDT
Subject: Re: Secret handshake
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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*** EOOH ***
From: RBlackley@aol.com
Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 16:06:36 EDT
Subject: Re: Secret handshake
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Why not say "Hi Ray, I'm on the e-mail list!, Its finally nice to meet you in 
person.
Just a thought
Richard"

> [Me again]
> 
> I've just had a good idea.
> 
> Why not a bookmark with a graphic on it?
> 
> I.e. someone on the list pick a picture, everyone prints it out, and leaves
> it poking out the book to be signed, to be spotted by Ray.
> 
> Easy!
> 
> 
> 
> BJS
> 


-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
"We don't want to go back to tomorrow, we want to go forward."
Dan Quayle
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Subject: Re: Faggots & Haggis (was RE: Mayonnaise verus Tomato sauce)
Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 21:14:14 +0100
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Jonathan Homer" <jchomer@yahoo.co.uk>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Faggots & Haggis (was RE: Mayonnaise verus Tomato sauce)
Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 21:14:14 +0100
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Kind of - Haggis (to my taste) was a little spicy, the faggot is perhaps
more 'meaty' and not Scottish in orgin. It does actually go down (come on
somebody back me up :-) really well with chips, even if you don't like the
faggot as such, gravy with chips is great !

Honest guv

:-)

Jon

----- Original Message -----
From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 9:01 PM
Subject: Ot: Faggots & Haggis (was RE: Mayonnaise verus Tomato sauce)


: Sounds kinda similar to what I know of Haggis? Is it a relative? At any
: rate it doesn't sound overly appealing. I'm not sure why you would want
: to wreck good chips with the stuff.
:
: David
:




_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com



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Subject: RE: Mayonnaise verus Tomato sauce
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*** EOOH ***
From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Mayonnaise verus Tomato sauce
Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 04:17:21 +0800
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How is Chicken Salt ever used in a derisive manner? <grin>

David

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu 
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Terri Lyn Layman
> Sent: Thursday, 2 May 2002 3:01 AM
> To: FEISTFANS-L
> Subject: RE: Mayonnaise verus Tomato sauce
> 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of David Pengelley
> > Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 1:09 PM
> >
> > Chicken Salt and Vinegar are the only condiments required
> > when it comes
> > to chips. And what is a faggot? (other than a bundle of sticks)
> 
> Thanks... I thought for a minute there I was going to have to 
> seriously hurt
> someone.
> 
> I wish like hell I could figure out why it metamophosed into the more
> derisive term it carries today...
> 
> *sigh*
> -TerriLyn
> 
> >
> > David
> >
> <snip>
> 



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> OK - Joel's picked up on one of my favourites sayings, below.

It's "pretentieux" not "pretentious". Anyway it's funny :)

> Anyway, "au contraire" always makes me think of Sherlock Holmes. Not sure
> why.

Maybe 'cause it sounds like "elementaire"

> Please do go careful with the French phrases - you don't wish to sound like
> Del Boy from Only Fools & Horses!

Who's that ?

> Bonjour,
> BJS

"Bonjour" means "good morning"...

Syl



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 01 May 2002 16:17:11 -0600
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT:  RE: Mayonnaise verus Tomato sauce
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

David Pengelley wrote:
> 
> Chicken Salt and Vinegar are the only condiments required when it comes
> to chips. And what is a faggot? (other than a bundle of sticks)

Wow, that might be a first: got more OT posts from this list today than
spam mail.

*sarcasm* Congrats, guys!

Craig J. Ries



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From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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Bruce Stedman wrote:
> 
> Why don't you do what I do - have an old PC for old games.
> I've a 486DX4/100 with Win95A, TVGA8900C and SBPro

Anestis Kozakis wrote:
> 
> Is it me or are people doing things the difficult way around?
> Buy a second hard disk, a removable hard drive bay plus two hard
> drive bay chassis.

Unfortunately, you two are under the assumption that everybody here has
half a dozen crappy computers lying around, or wads of cash to buy
whatever they want.

While hdd's aren't that expensive, g'luck trying to find even a small
one for a decent price. I have only one computer because it's the only
one I've ever bought for myself and my wife's computer's hdd died last
year (which had Win95 to my Win98) and the monitor was shot anyways: not
worth the effort.

And honestly, Joe Somebody shouldn't be dinking with his computer's
innards on a whim just for a game. You're more likely to do harm than
good.

The fact that there may be *gasp* FREE fixes to the problems of running
BaK in anything beyond Win98 should not be readily dismissed by people
who make assumptions.

Craig J. Ries



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Subject: RE: Movie
Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 23:54:43 +0100
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Sylvain Guehl
>
> > OK - Joel's picked up on one of my favourites sayings, below.
>
> It's "pretentieux" not "pretentious". Anyway it's funny :)
>
> > Please do go careful with the French phrases - you don't wish
> to sound like
> > Del Boy from Only Fools & Horses!
>
> Who's that ?

The star of arguably the funniest sitcom ever - "Only Fools and Horses".
(This is not a prompt for a new thread!)

> > Bonjour,
> > BJS
>
> "Bonjour" means "good morning"...
>
> Syl
>

Doesn't it literally mean "Good day"? Used in practice as Good Morning, Good
afternoon and Good day?



Steve
One of The Collective
http://learn.at/ahh
"Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then
do it." -- Lazarus Long

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Her is a link to a web site that was set up to help aspiring writers
of Science Fiction and fantasy.

http://www.sfwa.org/

Also, on most publishers web sites they have links to help get writers
published.

I belive Del Rey even have a writing club were your worked can be
critiqued by other aspiring authors. Once a month they select three
works which are edited by the "proffessionals" and are put in the
newsletter. There is a joining fee but if writing is what you want to
do then this can't be a bad place to start. The work group has already
launched the careers of some authors, from memory Cecelia Dart Thorton
(Ill Made Mute) is one of them.

Hope this helps.

Michael Hough 

--- message from "Steve Weghorn" <pelvislives@hotmail.com> attached:

_____________________________________________________________
Sign up for FREE email from RASalvatore.com at http://www.rasalvatore.com

_____________________________________________________________
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> The star of arguably the funniest sitcom ever - "Only Fools and Horses".
> (This is not a prompt for a new thread!)

Thanks.

> Doesn't it literally mean "Good day"? Used in practice as Good Morning, Good
> afternoon and Good day?

Yes, exactly. But we never use it to say bye. Ah, quiet complex.

In english you may say "good day" to mean "have a nice day" (you're
leaving someone). In french you say "bonjour" when you meet someone
and "bonne journée" when you leave someone.

Anyway :)

Syl



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Jonathan Homer wrote:

> I know this is off topic, but I've just gotta add my pennies worth to the
> debate - yep Salad Cream and chips is great - but that pales compared to
> curry and chips or indeed (shudders in excitement) Gravy and Chips (side
> order of Faggots as well).


When in high school, we had a Belgian exchange student live with us, and 
learned about salad cream and chips, amont other things.  It became 
apparent early on that american salad cream is much higher in calories 
than that used in Belgium, as she put on several pounds rapidly.

cd
-- 
Death to all Absolutists!



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Justin wrote:

 > Maybe I should rephrase the question as you all have answered me in
 > different ways.
 >
 > If you want to become a writer and you have written a few things,
 > how do get from stories you've done in your spare time to published
 >  work. I've heard of putting stories in newspapers to get yourself
 > known but I don't know any newspapers in scotland who accept stories.
 >  Also do newspapers and publishers consider you if you are at a young
 >  age as I am. I know that Alex got something printed when he was
 > younger than me but I don't have a teacher who's friends with an
 > editor.


I started out by selling to local markets - local magazines and the 
like.  From that, I've graduated to collecting rejection slips from the 
national magazines, while still selling to locals.

The standards are apparently rather different.  :)

cd
-- 
Death to all Absolutists!



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Subject: Re: OT:  Need Cat Help
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*** EOOH ***
From: RMAskren@aol.com
Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 21:58:50 EDT
Subject: Re: OT:  Need Cat Help
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

In a message dated 5/1/02 12:49:30 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
res0b95g@verizon.net writes:
>I just don't know if he is doing this to let us know he is mad or getting 
>back at us for taking him to the vet for a few days, or if he is still having 
>some type of problem..? 

I agree 100% with Joel, it is in your pet's best interest for you to consult 
with your veterinarian and have your veterinarian re-evaluate him. 
Inappropriate elimination is either the result of a behavioral problem or it 
is the result of a medical problem. It is critical that one rule out a 
medical condition before assuming the cause is behavioral. Cats are very 
prone to lower urinary tract disease and some of these conditions can be life 
threatening. Veterinarians feel that cats who are exhibiting abnormal 
elimination should be evaluated as soon as possible.

-Ralph

Ralph M. Askren, DVM
Shoal Creek Animal Clinic. P.C.
2226 Barnett Shoals Road
Athens, GA 30605
706-369-0962 Voice
706-369-0950 Fax
http://www.shoalcreek.com
animalclinic@shoalcreek.com



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To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
References: <000701c1f12c$3faad5a0$73f34004@vz.dsl.genuity.net>
Subject: Re: Need Cat Help
Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 16:52:34 +1200
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Julie Wootten" <wootten@xtra.co.nz>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Need Cat Help
Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 16:52:34 +1200
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Sometimes cats can associate pain and discomfort with their litter tray if
they have have suffered from constipation, urinary problems, cystitis etc.
So they then use alternate places like carpets and beds that don't have
the pain association.

If the problem is behavioural, then it's a case of retraining.  You may
need to confine the cat to a small room for a few days, where perhaps
the only choices for defacation are it's own bed or litter tray  It's
important not to punish a cat you "catch in the act" as that will make
them nervous, and more likely to pee in front of you, or start other
behavioural problems like overgrooming or spraying.  You just have
to swallow your anger, and put the cat calmly in it's litter tray (or
outside if it's an inside/outside cat).  You could also try a different
kind of litter.

However, as many others have said, the Vet is your best resource.
I don't know what things are like in the US, but in NZ, if you have
a good relationship with your Vet, you can usually phone to ask
a question, and they'll tell you if you need to come in, or give you
a quick answer over the phone.  I'm going to Vet school, but when
it comes to some things about my own pets, I still phone my old vet
for his opinion :-)

Julie.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jason Martin" <res0b95g@verizon.net>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2002 4:21 AM
Subject: OT: Need Cat Help


>     Sorry to do this, but I'm at my wits end on a problem my cat is having.
> 3 weeks ago my cat Scully started acting strange.  He was having troubles
> using the bathroom.  So the next day I took him to the Vet to see what was
> going on.  Once there we come to find that he had his bladder blocked and
> was rather large.  X-rays came out negative for stones and they even blew
> air into his bladder to look for non-opaqe stones(I think thats what they
> are).  he also did not have an UTI.    After that failed, they gave him a
> Cathader to drain the bladder.  They concluded that it was a possible Mucas
> Plug and that the cathader helped get rid of it.  After that he seemed to be
> fine and we were allowed to take him home after a few days.
>     Now that he is home he seems fine, but will not use the Litter Box like
> he normally did.  He insists on peeing in the living room along with
> defecating.  Nothing we seem to try works on getting him to stop. He has
> always been very good about using the litterbox.  I just don't know if he is
> doing this to let us know he is mad or getting back at us for taking him to
> the vet for a few days, or if he is still having some type of problem..?
> Has anyone else had anything similiar to this or can point me in a direction
> to read some more stuff on this about?  I really do not want to take him
> back to the vet, since the last time there the bill was rather large...
> Sorry for the OT letter, but this list is pretty knowledgable.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jason
>
> PS if you feel the need to flame me over this, Send it to me and not the
> list.
>
> "Too much knowlege never makes for simple decisions."
>                            Ghanima- Children of Dune
>




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From: "Julie Wootten" <wootten@xtra.co.nz>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
References: <001201c1f136$a8fc7590$bf54073e@amecmchaloner> <004401c1f138$71b78640$0dc06dd5@desktoppc> <3CD08D0A.6070105@cox.net>
Subject: OT:  Re: Mayonnaise verus Tomato sauce
Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 16:59:04 +1200
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Julie Wootten" <wootten@xtra.co.nz>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: OT:  Re: Mayonnaise verus Tomato sauce
Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 16:59:04 +1200
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Garlic mayo on chips or wedges is great.  Other options gravy, chili
with sour cream, and the standard salt and vinegar.

But what will probably gross most of you out is the combination of
chips and chocolate soft-serve.  There's something about a hot salty
crunchy inner surrounded by a soft cold sweet outer that's pretty darn 
good.  (And it's dipping the chips, not covering em - can't let em get 
soggy)

Julie.





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From: "Terri Lyn Layman" <terrilyn@fullnet.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Mayonnaise verus Tomato sauce
Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 00:07:17 -0500
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*** EOOH ***
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: "Terri Lyn Layman" <terrilyn@fullnet.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Mayonnaise verus Tomato sauce
Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 00:07:17 -0500
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Erm...

Ok...

A certian percentage (anywhere from 10-35% depending on the study) fall into
a class of peoples known derisively as "faggots".

Are you really so clueless?

-TerriLyn (who hates the damn term *save it's original definition* with a
passion for being called it so often as a kid way before I even knew what it
was, let alone that I fell in the population... *sigh*)

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of David Pengelley
> Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 3:17 PM
> To: FEISTFANS-L
> Subject: RE: Mayonnaise verus Tomato sauce
>
>
> How is Chicken Salt ever used in a derisive manner? <grin>
>
> David
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Terri Lyn Layman
> > Sent: Thursday, 2 May 2002 3:01 AM
> > To: FEISTFANS-L
> > Subject: RE: Mayonnaise verus Tomato sauce
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > > [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of David Pengelley
> > > Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 1:09 PM
> > >
> > > Chicken Salt and Vinegar are the only condiments required
> > > when it comes
> > > to chips. And what is a faggot? (other than a bundle of sticks)
> >
> > Thanks... I thought for a minute there I was going to have to
> > seriously hurt
> > someone.
> >
> > I wish like hell I could figure out why it metamophosed
> into the more
> > derisive term it carries today...
> >
> > *sigh*
> > -TerriLyn
> >
> > >
> > > David
> > >
> > <snip>
> >



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From: "Donal K. Fellows" <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
In-reply-to: <3CD06967.57A0D16F@yifan.net> (cries@yifan.net)
Subject: Re: OT:  RE: Mayonnaise verus Tomato sauce
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Donal K. Fellows" <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT:  RE: Mayonnaise verus Tomato sauce
Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 09:54:31 +0100
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

"Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
> Wow, that might be a first: got more OT posts from this list today than
> spam mail.
> 
> *sarcasm* Congrats, guys!

Glad to be of service!  <eg>

Donal.
-- 
Donal K. Fellows, Department of Computer Science, University of Manchester, UK.
(work) fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk     Tel: +44-161-275-6137  (preferred email addr.)
(home) donal@ugglan.demon.co.uk  Tel: +44-1274-401017   Mobile: +44-7957-298955
http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~fellowsd/  (Don't quote my .sig; I've seen it before!)



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From: "Donal K. Fellows" <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
In-reply-to: <000901c1f197$3ba04740$2d90fea9@ctlayman> (terrilyn@fullnet.com)
Subject: Re: Mayonnaise verus Tomato sauce
References:  <000901c1f197$3ba04740$2d90fea9@ctlayman>
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Donal K. Fellows" <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Mayonnaise verus Tomato sauce
Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 09:53:52 +0100
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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"Terri Lyn Layman" <terrilyn@fullnet.com>
> Erm...
> 
> Ok...
> 
> A certian percentage (anywhere from 10-35% depending on the study) fall into
> a class of peoples known derisively as "faggots".

What, 10-35%[*] of people are either small bundles of wood or offal
sausages?  Wow...

> Are you really so clueless?

Kindly stop being *quite* so defensive.  We all (or at least the vast
majority of us) know the other meaning but can't resist the cheap joke
anyway, but if your hackles get raised as soon as someone goes even
remotely close, it needlessly antagonises a lot of others.  (Me, for
example.)

> -TerriLyn (who hates the damn term *save it's original definition*
> with a passion for being called it so often as a kid way before I
> even knew what it was, let alone that I fell in the
> population... *sigh*)

It is a silly term, probably chosen to denigrate.  I don't know the
etymology of that usage though.

Donal.
[* 35%??  How did they derive that figure, asking people wandering
   about on the streets of San Francisco? ]
-- 
Donal K. Fellows, Department of Computer Science, University of Manchester, UK.
(work) fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk     Tel: +44-161-275-6137  (preferred email addr.)
(home) donal@ugglan.demon.co.uk  Tel: +44-1274-401017   Mobile: +44-7957-298955
http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~fellowsd/  (Don't quote my .sig; I've seen it before!)



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From: "Donal K. Fellows" <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
In-reply-to: <006d01c1f14b$0530ccd0$2100a8c0@pengelley.com>
	(wolf@icenet.com.au)
Subject: Re: Ot: Faggots & Haggis (was RE: Mayonnaise verus Tomato sauce)
References:  <006d01c1f14b$0530ccd0$2100a8c0@pengelley.com>
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Donal K. Fellows" <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Ot: Faggots & Haggis (was RE: Mayonnaise verus Tomato sauce)
Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 09:56:45 +0100
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"David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
> Sounds kinda similar to what I know of Haggis? Is it a relative? At any
> rate it doesn't sound overly appealing. I'm not sure why you would want
> to wreck good chips with the stuff.

Mmmm.  Haggis and chips...

Donal (living in an area dominated by Black Puddings instead.)
-- 
Donal K. Fellows, Department of Computer Science, University of Manchester, UK.
(work) fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk     Tel: +44-161-275-6137  (preferred email addr.)
(home) donal@ugglan.demon.co.uk  Tel: +44-1274-401017   Mobile: +44-7957-298955
http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~fellowsd/  (Don't quote my .sig; I've seen it before!)



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 <3CD06A7B.D16AA9E3@yifan.net>
Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 18:58:05 +1000
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From: Anestis Kozakis <kenosti@labyrinth.net.au>
Subject: Re: Betrayal at Krondor PC game tech question
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 18:58:05 +1000
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Anestis Kozakis <kenosti@labyrinth.net.au>
Subject: Re: Betrayal at Krondor PC game tech question
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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>Bruce Stedman wrote:
>>
>>  Why don't you do what I do - have an old PC for old games.
>>  I've a 486DX4/100 with Win95A, TVGA8900C and SBPro
>
>Anestis Kozakis wrote:
>>
>>  Is it me or are people doing things the difficult way around?
>>  Buy a second hard disk, a removable hard drive bay plus two hard
>>  drive bay chassis.
>
>Unfortunately, you two are under the assumption that everybody here has
>half a dozen crappy computers lying around, or wads of cash to buy
>whatever they want.

[snip about old hard drives hard to find]

If you know where to look (Computer Swap Meets), old hgard drives 
that still work well are easy to find and cheap.

In fact, I have two old drives sitting here.  I will verify that they 
still work at some stage, and if so, install DOS, and maybe even 
Windows 3.11, on one of them.

And a drive bay chassis and caddy only cost $30 US or less.

>And honestly, Joe Somebody shouldn't be dinking with his computer's
>innards on a whim just for a game. You're more likely to do harm than
>good.

Fiddling with the innards of a computer isn't that hard.  And 
besides, almost everybody knows someone who's a techhead.

>The fact that there may be *gasp* FREE fixes to the problems of running
>BaK in anything beyond Win98 should not be readily dismissed by people
>who make assumptions.

And sometimes, free solutions don't work for everyone.  I have seen 
time and again the same makes and models of computers, down to the 
same components, configuration, and software OS (including patches) 
behave quite differently with exactly the same program (version 
number and everything).

One computer will run the program flawlessly, no bugs, no problems, 
no crashes.  The other will have the program crashing, taking the 
computer with it, closing down due to bugs, and no amount of tweaking 
can get the program to run properly.

Not all computers are created equal.  Some just like to lord it over us :-/

>Craig J. Ries

Anestis.
-- 
kenosti@labyrinth.net.au
"A complete list of this film's associate producers
  is available upon request."
    -- In End Credits for "State and Main"



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From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Mayonnaise verus Tomato sauce
Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 17:02:36 +0800
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*** EOOH ***
From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Mayonnaise verus Tomato sauce
Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 17:02:36 +0800
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I think Donal said it reasonably well, but in case you missed it I put a
grin on the end of the question. I knew what you were really getting at
- I personally can't stand the way people bandy about the word vinegar
nowadays? <eg>


David


> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu 
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Terri Lyn Layman
> Sent: Thursday, 2 May 2002 1:07 PM
> To: FEISTFANS-L
> Subject: RE: Mayonnaise verus Tomato sauce
> 
> 
> Erm...
> 
> Ok...
> 
> A certian percentage (anywhere from 10-35% depending on the 
> study) fall into
> a class of peoples known derisively as "faggots".
> 
> Are you really so clueless?
> 
> -TerriLyn (who hates the damn term *save it's original 
> definition* with a
> passion for being called it so often as a kid way before I 
> even knew what it
> was, let alone that I fell in the population... *sigh*)
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of David Pengelley
> > Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 3:17 PM
> > To: FEISTFANS-L
> > Subject: RE: Mayonnaise verus Tomato sauce
> >
> >
> > How is Chicken Salt ever used in a derisive manner? <grin>
> >
> > David
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > > [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Terri 
> Lyn Layman
> > > Sent: Thursday, 2 May 2002 3:01 AM
> > > To: FEISTFANS-L
> > > Subject: RE: Mayonnaise verus Tomato sauce
> > >
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > > > [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of 
> David Pengelley
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 1:09 PM
> > > >
> > > > Chicken Salt and Vinegar are the only condiments required
> > > > when it comes
> > > > to chips. And what is a faggot? (other than a bundle of sticks)
> > >
> > > Thanks... I thought for a minute there I was going to have to
> > > seriously hurt
> > > someone.
> > >
> > > I wish like hell I could figure out why it metamophosed
> > into the more
> > > derisive term it carries today...
> > >
> > > *sigh*
> > > -TerriLyn
> > >
> > > >
> > > > David
> > > >
> > > <snip>
> > >
> 



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 13:00:55 +0200
From: Caranorn Aglaredhel <caranorn@cmdnet.lu>
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Subject: OT Re: Movie
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Why? You think mustard is normal? ;-)

Not Belgian, but their closest cousin

Marc aka Caran...

Richard Williamson wrote:

>...and that you lot think that putting mayonnaise on your french fries (which, I
>do admit are /Belgian/ in origin) is "normal".
>
>eeeeuuchhh.
>
>rip
>
>At 16:26 30/04/2002, you wrote:
>
>>Okay, perhaps you're right. But don't worry, I'm probably just action stupid occasionally 'cause I'm still a bit excited about this fan list. I promise I'll think harder before commenting something, okay?
>>(But besides Jean-Claude Van Damme, there's nothing wrong with Belgium :))
>>Wouter
>>
>>
>>>From: Joel Rosenberg <joelr@ellegon.com>
>>>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>>>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
>>>Subject: Re: Movie
>>>Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 12:35:55 -0500
>>>
>>>"Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
>>>Belgian citizenship"?
>>>
>>>:)
>>>
>>>On Monday 29 April 2002 12:21 pm, you wrote:
>>>
>>>>I didn't really mean nasty, and I'm sorry if that was offensive. Since my
>>>>English isn't all that great, it may occur that I have some difficulties
>>>>expressing myself in the exact same way I'm thinking about something. And
>>>>since I live in Belgium, I don't think you can blame me for that. But I
>>>>think you understood what I meant, right?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
>>>>
>>>>>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>>>>>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
>>>>>Subject: Re: Movie
>>>>>Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 09:28:15 -0700
>>>>>
>>>>>On Monday, April 29, 2002, at 09:06 AM, Wouter Durnez wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>Mr.. Feist (can I call you Ray, like everyone else? :-) ), please don't
>>>>>>think that we don't appreciate it, when you answer our questions. I
>>>>>>know, sometimes we can be a bit of a burden, but don't quit the list
>>>>>>because of a nasty mail. And about the movie, I understand that you're
>>>>>>in a difficult position to comment that subject, so I'll only ask one
>>>>>>thing. Please let us be among the first to know, if it is certain that
>>>>>>there will be a movie.
>>>>>>Thanks
>>>>>>
>>>>>I'm not thinking of quitting the list.  And Jason's note wasn't "nasty,"
>>>>>rather it was ill thought-out.  He's usually one of the better posters
>>>>>on the list.
>>>>>
>>>>>I just get tired of the "if you let someone else do it, you must only be
>>>>>in it for the money" tone that pops up.  Not all writers are as
>>>>>anal-retentive and control freakish as many fans appear to be.
>>>>>
>>>>>Anyone who has read the original Frank Herbert screenplay for Dune would
>>>>>instantly realize that many times the author of the book is the last
>>>>>person you want adapting it to film.
>>>>>
>>>>>Best, R.E.F.
>>>>>----
>>>>>
>>>>>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
>>>>>stupidity.
>>>>>
>>>>_________________________________________________________________
>>>>MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
>>>>http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
>>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>_________________________________________________________________
>>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.
>>
>
>




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From: Caranorn Aglaredhel <caranorn@cmdnet.lu>
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Subject: Re: Betrayal at Krondor PC game tech question
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Yep, and that's why I never played either of those games. I guess I 
could run them under Virtual PC now, but I obviously won't go and buy 
the games now.

Sad though,

Marc aka Caran...

Raymond Feist wrote:

>
> On Tuesday, April 30, 2002, at 08:54 PM, Chris Bolan wrote:
>
>     I was wondering, does anyone have any details regarding the
>     programming book with BaK source code ?
>
>
> Oh, ya.
>
> Steve tried to recompile the code for a try at a Mac version, and we 
> discovered 1) the documentation was horrible 2) the programming team 
> made endless numbers of direct calls to the hardware that were 
> non-standard 3) even Sierra's own Mac compiler couldn't root out the 
> DOS calls and substitute the correct Mac calls. 4) etc.
>
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
>
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
> stupidity.





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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Sylvain you should know better <poke>. It means good day. (Can't think 
of a Good Morning in French right away as we use Moyen, a germanic term 
in Luxembourg).

Salut

Marc aka Caran...

Sylvain Guehl wrote:

>>OK - Joel's picked up on one of my favourites sayings, below.
>>
>
>It's "pretentieux" not "pretentious". Anyway it's funny :)
>
>>Anyway, "au contraire" always makes me think of Sherlock Holmes. Not sure
>>why.
>>
>
>Maybe 'cause it sounds like "elementaire"
>
>>Please do go careful with the French phrases - you don't wish to sound like
>>Del Boy from Only Fools & Horses!
>>
>
>Who's that ?
>
>>Bonjour,
>>BJS
>>
>
>"Bonjour" means "good morning"...
>
>Syl
>
>




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What? Fries are just as good up in Wallonie! Or beyond the border in 
Luxembourg.

Green Ketchup? I'm turning green just to think about that:-)

Marc aka Caran...

Wouter Durnez wrote:

> Actually, they're Flemish, not Belgian. Flanders is a part of Belgium, 
> sure, but that's the ONLY place the fries are good. And what's wrong 
> with mayo? Mayo rules man! You know what's nasty? Green ketchup.
> Wouter





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Subject: RE: OT:  RE: Mayonnaise verus Tomato sauce
Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 19:38:48 +0800
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*** EOOH ***
From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: OT:  RE: Mayonnaise verus Tomato sauce
Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 19:38:48 +0800
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

All this talk of OT mail got me to thinking.

Ray, what would be your favourite adornments on hot chips? (just if for
nothing else than to bring this thread slightly back onto topic)

David

BTW - Craig, you should be bracing yourself for the imminent glut of OT
Star Wars mail I'm sure somebody is going to start in a few weeks? I'm
not looking forward to it (the glut, not the movie) but I'm sure it's
going to happen.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu 
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Donal K. Fellows
> Sent: Thursday, 2 May 2002 4:55 PM
> To: FEISTFANS-L
> Subject: Re: OT: RE: Mayonnaise verus Tomato sauce
> 
> 
> "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
> > Wow, that might be a first: got more OT posts from this 
> list today than
> > spam mail.
> > 
> > *sarcasm* Congrats, guys!
> 
> Glad to be of service!  <eg>
> 
> Donal.
> -- 
> Donal K. Fellows, Department of Computer Science, University 
> of Manchester, UK.
> (work) fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk     Tel: +44-161-275-6137  
> (preferred email addr.)
> (home) donal@ugglan.demon.co.uk  Tel: +44-1274-401017   
> Mobile: +44-7957-298955
> http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~fellowsd/  (Don't quote my .sig; 
> I've seen it before!)
> 



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From: paul.whitby@oxoid.com
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Subject: Murder in LaMut Publication Date
Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 13:32:51 +0100 
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


Got an email from Harper Collins this morning reference the release date of
Murder in LaMut. Although online stores such as amazon.co.uk and
whsmith.co.uk are giving a May 7th release date, the publishers assure me
that the real date for release if......wait for it, wait for it......JUNE
5TH.

I guess we will all have to wait a little longer 

and the cheapest place I have found the book for pre-order in the UK is
www.swotbooks.com who are selling it for £12.95! 

Paul



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From: "Richard Hogg" <richard@hoggonline.co.uk>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Mayonnaise verus Tomato sauce
Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 13:38:31 +0100
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Richard Hogg" <richard@hoggonline.co.uk>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Mayonnaise verus Tomato sauce
Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 13:38:31 +0100
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


Curry sauce rates quite highly (has to be chinese style), but you really
can't beat salt & brown sauce.

Richard.

-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of David Pengelley
>Sent: 01 May 2002 19:09
>To: FEISTFANS-L
>Subject: OT: RE: Mayonnaise verus Tomato sauce
>
>
>Chicken Salt and Vinegar are the only condiments required when it comes
>to chips. And what is a faggot? (other than a bundle of sticks)
>
>David
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Jonathan Homer
>> Sent: Thursday, 2 May 2002 1:49 AM
>> To: FEISTFANS-L
>> Subject: Re: Mayonnaise verus Tomato sauce
>> 
>> 
>> I know this is off topic, but I've just gotta add my pennies
>> worth to the
>> debate - yep Salad Cream and chips is great - but that pales 
>> compared to
>> curry and chips or indeed (shudders in excitement) Gravy and 
>> Chips (side
>> order of Faggots as well).
>> 
>> Actually how did this topic start off ? :-)
>> 
>> Jon
>> 
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "MChaloner" <markchaloner@btinternet.com>
>> To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
>> Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 6:35 PM
>> Subject: Mayonnaise verus Tomato sauce
>> 
>> 
>> : > From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>> : [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Richard
>> Williamson
>> : > ...and that you lot think that putting mayonnaise on your 
>> french fries
>> : (which, I do admit are /Belgian/ in origin) is
>> : > "normal".
>> : > eeeeuuchhh.
>> : > rip
>> :
>> : I believe it's actually Salad Cream (which is different).
>> : Don't knock mayonnaise on chips 'til you've tried it.
>> : I always tend to have mayonnaise now instead of tomato sauce.
>> :
>> : Mark ;-)
>> :
>> 
>> 
>> _________________________________________________________
>> Do You Yahoo!?
>> Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

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Subject: Re: Mayonnaise verus Tomato sauce
Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 14:09:05 +0100
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Iain" <iainp@btinternet.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Mayonnaise verus Tomato sauce
Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 14:09:05 +0100
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

My local chippy, Kingrib supper with cheese.   Hhhhuuuuuuuu........

Iain.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: Richard Hogg <richard@hoggonline.co.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2002 1:38 PM
Subject: RE: Mayonnaise verus Tomato sauce


> 
> Curry sauce rates quite highly (has to be chinese style), but you really
> can't beat salt & brown sauce.
> 
> Richard.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of David Pengelley
> Sent: 01 May 2002 19:09
> To: FEISTFANS-L
> Subject: OT: RE: Mayonnaise verus Tomato sauce
> 
> 
> Chicken Salt and Vinegar are the only condiments required when it comes
> to chips. And what is a faggot? (other than a bundle of sticks)
> 
> David
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Jonathan Homer
> > Sent: Thursday, 2 May 2002 1:49 AM
> > To: FEISTFANS-L
> > Subject: Re: Mayonnaise verus Tomato sauce
> > 
> > 
> > I know this is off topic, but I've just gotta add my pennies
> > worth to the
> > debate - yep Salad Cream and chips is great - but that pales 
> > compared to
> > curry and chips or indeed (shudders in excitement) Gravy and 
> > Chips (side
> > order of Faggots as well).
> > 
> > Actually how did this topic start off ? :-)
> > 
> > Jon
> > 
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "MChaloner" <markchaloner@btinternet.com>
> > To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> > Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 6:35 PM
> > Subject: Mayonnaise verus Tomato sauce
> > 
> > 
> > : > From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > : [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Richard
> > Williamson
> > : > ...and that you lot think that putting mayonnaise on your 
> > french fries
> > : (which, I do admit are /Belgian/ in origin) is
> > : > "normal".
> > : > eeeeuuchhh.
> > : > rip
> > :
> > : I believe it's actually Salad Cream (which is different).
> > : Don't knock mayonnaise on chips 'til you've tried it.
> > : I always tend to have mayonnaise now instead of tomato sauce.
> > :
> > : Mark ;-)
> > :
> > 
> > 
> > _________________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
> > 
> 
> 



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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Really OT : Mayonnaise verus Tomato sauce
Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 14:30:27 +0100 
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*** EOOH ***
From: paul.whitby@oxoid.com
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Really OT : Mayonnaise verus Tomato sauce
Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 14:30:27 +0100 
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


a faggot, at least in my local chippy, is another word for a type of
meatball.
there be local variations on types of faggots, but generally they are a
meatball.

now, for the yanks amongst us, stop laughing, it really is!

Paul

-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of David Pengelley
>Sent: 01 May 2002 19:09
>To: FEISTFANS-L
>Subject: OT: RE: Mayonnaise verus Tomato sauce
>
>
>Chicken Salt and Vinegar are the only condiments required when it comes
>to chips. And what is a faggot? (other than a bundle of sticks)
>
>David
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Jonathan Homer
>> Sent: Thursday, 2 May 2002 1:49 AM
>> To: FEISTFANS-L
>> Subject: Re: Mayonnaise verus Tomato sauce
>> 
>> 
>> I know this is off topic, but I've just gotta add my pennies
>> worth to the
>> debate - yep Salad Cream and chips is great - but that pales 
>> compared to
>> curry and chips or indeed (shudders in excitement) Gravy and 
>> Chips (side
>> order of Faggots as well).
>> 
>> Actually how did this topic start off ? :-)
>> 
>> Jon
>>
>


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This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by
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"
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Subject: Re: Betrayal at Krondor PC game tech question
Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 09:32:49 -0400
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Rich" <richse@eden.rutgers.edu>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Betrayal at Krondor PC game tech question
Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 09:32:49 -0400
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

win ME may have had a command prompt but MS removed DOS from the system so
it is def. not a DOS prompt. There is a big difference.

Rich

----- Original Message -----
From: "Western Rhythm" <info@westernrhythm.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 10:08 AM
Subject: Re: Betrayal at Krondor PC game tech question


> IMHO
> Get rid of WindowsME, its the worst operating system around, I had it
> installed and it used to crash my machine on a regular daily basis. Go back
> to Win98 or XP much stablier releases.
>
> WinMe does have a Dos Prompt, and it should allow you to Play Return to
> Krondor is that the original problem? Mine worked fine on WINME cept for the
> usual system crashes.



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Subject: Re: Betrayal at Krondor PC game tech question
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From: "Rich" <richse@eden.rutgers.edu>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Betrayal at Krondor PC game tech question
Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 09:30:39 -0400
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Sylvain Guehl" <fenyxkell@demo.xandmail.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 9:56 AM
Subject: Re: Betrayal at Krondor PC game tech question

>
> To install DOS you need a FAT16 partition, and FAT16 doesn't work with HDD
>greater than 2GB in size
>
> Syl
>

This is incorrect. Win98 still runs ontop of DOS with fat32 support.  Also I
believe that Fat16 only works with partitions of less than 2GB so you could
in effect make a lot of partitions but since you dont need fat16 for DOS
that would be useless.

If anyone really needs the game to work that badly and you cant get it to
run in WinXP after enabling the win98 emulation for the game then maybe you
could look into dual booting win98 and win2000/XP.  I currently run both, 98
for games and XP for everything else.  Its a very easy process to install
both, win XP does most of it for u.  If anyone needs more info on this or
had a problem feel free to email me.

Rich



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Subject: Re: Betrayal at Krondor PC game tech question
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From: "Mike Tyukanov" <stroke@rinet.ru>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Betrayal at Krondor PC game tech question
Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 17:42:28 +0400
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Hi,
----- Original Message -----
From: "Adam Thornton" <sandman_one87@hotmail.com>

> Could you please tell me how you got it to work on windows Xp without sound
> ?
> A copy of the bootdisc i might want, but not until i've tryed it again
> without sound in windows

The easiest way is to get it to work with sound :-).

Download and install VDMSound. It emulates several DOS sound cards,
including two versions of MIDI mappings, and, of course SB and Adlib.
http://ntvdm.cjb.net/

You will find two text files named autoexec.vdms and config.vdms. They are
used as autoexec.bat and config.sys for virtual MS-DOS sessions when you run
a game via 'Start with VDMS' menu option.

Here, first try to run BaK as is. Maybe you are lucky, and it will run. But
there are chances that it will complain on 'not enough memory', so you must
give it more conventional memory. Make sure that your config.vdms contains
emm=RAM
DOS=high,umb

but it probably already is. In autoexec.vdms comment out CD-ROM use:

rem lh %SystemRoot%\system32\mscdexnt.exe

and, which is probably most important of these steps, comment out dosx:

rem lh %SystemRoot%\system32\dosx.exe

It provides lots of memory for DPMS-aware MS-DOS games, but it uses too much
of conventional RAM, and BaK doesn't need any DPMS memory, so turn it off,
and you'll most likely get BaK run.

Run BaK's install.exe with VDMS. You should see that all sound cards are
detected as available. Try simple configuration (Adlib/SoundBlaster and
compatibles) first, if it works, you may try other options.

Of course, you probably would have to modify bak's pif to make it use
expanded memory.

I've found that XP+VDMS runs more DOS games successfully than Windows 98. If
you've got one of the modern sound cards which have poor SB emulation, or
not have it at all, it is the only way to run DOS games with sound.



As ever,
Mike

Moscow, Russia



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From: "Richard Hogg" <richard@hoggonline.co.uk>
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Subject: RE: Betrayal at Krondor PC game tech question
Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 14:47:13 +0100
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Richard Hogg" <richard@hoggonline.co.uk>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Betrayal at Krondor PC game tech question
Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 14:47:13 +0100
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Another suggestion may be the likes of Vmware or Virtual PC, I've got a
DOS session running quite happily under Vmware running under XP and most
of the old games I've tried still work (some issues around sound
remain).

Richard.

-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Rich
>Sent: 02 May 2002 14:31
>To: FEISTFANS-L
>Subject: Re: Betrayal at Krondor PC game tech question
>
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Sylvain Guehl" <fenyxkell@demo.xandmail.com>
>To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
>Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 9:56 AM
>Subject: Re: Betrayal at Krondor PC game tech question
>
>>
>> To install DOS you need a FAT16 partition, and FAT16 doesn't work with
>> HDD greater than 2GB in size
>>
>> Syl
>>
>
>This is incorrect. Win98 still runs ontop of DOS with fat32 support.
>Also I believe that Fat16 only works with partitions of less than 2GB so
>you could in effect make a lot of partitions but since you dont need
>fat16 for DOS that would be useless.
>
>If anyone really needs the game to work that badly and you cant get it
>to run in WinXP after enabling the win98 emulation for the game then
>maybe you could look into dual booting win98 and win2000/XP.  I
>currently run both, 98 for games and XP for everything else.  Its a very
>easy process to install both, win XP does most of it for u.  If anyone
>needs more info on this or had a problem feel free to email me.
>
>Rich
>



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Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 06:59:19 -0700
Subject: Re: OT:  RE: Mayonnaise verus Tomato sauce
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 06:59:19 -0700
Subject: Re: OT:  RE: Mayonnaise verus Tomato sauce
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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On Thursday, May 2, 2002, at 04:38 AM, David Pengelley wrote:

> All this talk of OT mail got me to thinking.
>
> Ray, what would be your favourite adornments on hot chips? (just if for
> nothing else than to bring this thread slightly back onto topic)
>

Chipolte sauce.  It's a spicy Southwest pepper.  Flemming's makes their 
own chips .  . .

Wait, you mean "fries."  Chips here are what you'd call crips.

For Fries, I like 'em with ketchup or plain.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: OT: International ISP's
Date: Fri, 3 May 2002 00:28:01 +1000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Volker Stephens" <volker@bigpond.net.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: OT: International ISP's
Date: Fri, 3 May 2002 00:28:01 +1000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

My father is going overseas for a month and bought himself a laptop to
send/recieve emails.
What I need now is to set him up with an ISP that has local dial ups in
Australia, Germany, Italy and the UK.

What is my best bet, AOL or can someone suggest something better?

Volker.

ps  Reply off list, there's enough OT going around at the moment : )



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Subject: RE: OT:  RE: Mayonnaise verus Tomato sauce
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*** EOOH ***
From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: OT:  RE: Mayonnaise verus Tomato sauce
Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 22:57:19 +0800
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

What is your definition of chips vs. fries?

Here fries are generally the thin shoe string things you get from
McDonalds. Hot Chips are the fatter variety but still cooked in a
similar manner (what you get at a fish & chip shop), but chips could
also be the things you buy down at the corner store like Samboys, Smiths
or Pringles (I don't know what brands are in the US).

And who is Flemming's, is that an American restaurant chain or
something?


Dave

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu 
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Raymond Feist
> Sent: Thursday, 2 May 2002 9:59 PM
> To: FEISTFANS-L
> Subject: Re: OT: RE: Mayonnaise verus Tomato sauce
> 
> 
> 
> On Thursday, May 2, 2002, at 04:38 AM, David Pengelley wrote:
> 
> > All this talk of OT mail got me to thinking.
> >
> > Ray, what would be your favourite adornments on hot chips? 
> (just if for
> > nothing else than to bring this thread slightly back onto topic)
> >
> 
> Chipolte sauce.  It's a spicy Southwest pepper.  Flemming's 
> makes their 
> own chips .  . . 
> 
> Wait, you mean "fries."  Chips here are what you'd call crips.
> 
> For Fries, I like 'em with ketchup or plain.
> 
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
> 
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be 
> explained away by 
> stupidity.
> 



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From: Joel Rosenberg <joelr@ellegon.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT:  RE: Mayonnaise verus Tomato sauce
Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 10:39:59 -0500
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*** EOOH ***
From: Joel Rosenberg <joelr@ellegon.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT:  RE: Mayonnaise verus Tomato sauce
Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 10:39:59 -0500
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

On Thursday 02 May 2002 09:57 am, you wrote:
> What is your definition of chips vs. fries?
>
>

In my personal experience, "chips" are "fries" that are bought in Winnipeg.  
They cost less -- largely because of the relative value of the Canadian 
dollar to the USD -- but taste the same, although typically, in Winnipeg, 
they're served with a bottle of vinegar placed nearby, for some reason.

On the other hand, there's nothing in the US remotely as wonderful as a 
Kelekis' hot dog, which is only available at Kelekis', in Winnipeg -- with or 
without "chips".  The hot dogs -- bought from the same producer for seventy 
years -- are first deep-fried, then grilled, and taste wonderful, although, 
manifestly, the nickname of "heart attack on a bun" isn't inappropriate. 



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References: <4918B9B9016ED411AF5B00D0B7203548014A04A9@UKMain>
Subject: Re: Murder in LaMut Publication Date
Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 17:11:36 +0100
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Justin" <justin.carew@ntlworld.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Murder in LaMut Publication Date
Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 17:11:36 +0100
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

In fsf.co.uk they are selling it for
9.99, but you have to be a member to
join. If you join you have to buy a book
a month for 4 months. Its one of those
types of companies although it does some
good deals.
----- Original Message -----
From: <paul.whitby@oxoid.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L"
<feistfans-l@cornell.edu>
Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2002 1:32 PM
Subject: Murder in LaMut Publication
Date


|
| Got an email from Harper Collins this morning reference the release date of
| Murder in LaMut. Although online stores such as amazon.co.uk and
| whsmith.co.uk are giving a May 7th release date, the publishers assure me
| that the real date for release if......wait for it, wait for it......JUNE
| 5TH.
|
| I guess we will all have to wait a little longer
|
| and the cheapest place I have found the book for pre-order in the UK is
| www.swotbooks.com who are selling it for £12.95!
|
| Paul
|
|
|
| **********************************************************************
| This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
| intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they
| are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify
| the system manager.
|
| This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by
| MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses.
|
| "
| **********************************************************************
|
|



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 09:28:09 -0700
Subject: Re: OT: International ISP's
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Thursday, May 2, 2002, at 07:28 AM, Volker Stephens wrote:

> My father is going overseas for a month and bought himself a laptop to
> send/recieve emails.
> What I need now is to set him up with an ISP that has local dial ups in
> Australia, Germany, Italy and the UK.
>
> What is my best bet, AOL or can someone suggest something better?
>
> Volker.
>
> ps  Reply off list, there's enough OT going around at the moment : )
>
>
>
>

Depends on how ISP savy your dad is.  AOL is pretty easy for most 
folks.  If he can set up dialup stuff for new numbers and the like with 
mail/newsreaders/etc. check out Earthlink.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 09:29:42 -0700
Subject: Re: OT:  RE: Mayonnaise verus Tomato sauce
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 09:29:42 -0700
Subject: Re: OT:  RE: Mayonnaise verus Tomato sauce
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Thursday, May 2, 2002, at 07:57 AM, David Pengelley wrote:

> What is your definition of chips vs. fries?

Chips in the US are potato chips, i.e. crisps in the UK.  "Fries" are 
pom-fits in most of Europe.
>
> Here fries are generally the thin shoe string things you get from
> McDonalds. Hot Chips are the fatter variety but still cooked in a
> similar manner (what you get at a fish & chip shop), but chips could
> also be the things you buy down at the corner store like Samboys, Smiths
> or Pringles (I don't know what brands are in the US).
>
> And who is Flemming's, is that an American restaurant chain or
> something?
>

Flemming's is a very upscape chain of steak houses in the US.  Probably 
the best steaks in the US, IMHO.  Over 100 different wines by the glass 
on their list.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Subject: RE: Movie
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu,  2 May 2002 17:17:09 +0000
Subject: RE: Movie
From: "Sylvain Guehl" <fenyxkell@demo.xandmail.com>
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> Sylvain you should know better . It means good day. (Can't think 
> of a Good Morning in French right away as we use Moyen, a germanic term 
> in Luxembourg).
> 
> Salut

Well, for "good morning" we say "bonjour", yes yes, really :)

Syl



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References: <4918B9B9016ED411AF5B00D0B7203548014A04A9@UKMain> <005001c1f1f4$10673cc0$0100000a@faithful>
Subject: Re: Murder in LaMut Publication Date
Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 18:48:38 +0100
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Justin" <justin.carew@ntlworld.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Murder in LaMut Publication Date
Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 18:48:38 +0100
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

sorry you have to join to buy it was
what I meant
----- Original Message -----
From: "Justin"
<justin.carew@ntlworld.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L"
<FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2002 5:11 PM
Subject: Re: Murder in LaMut Publication
Date


| In fsf.co.uk they are selling it for
| 9.99, but you have to be a member to
| join. If you join you have to buy a book
| a month for 4 months. Its one of those
| types of companies although it does some
| good deals.
| ----- Original Message -----
| From: <paul.whitby@oxoid.com>
| To: "FEISTFANS-L"
| <feistfans-l@cornell.edu>
| Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2002 1:32 PM
| Subject: Murder in LaMut Publication
| Date
|
|
| |
| | Got an email from Harper Collins this
| morning reference the release date of
| | Murder in LaMut. Although online
| stores such as amazon.co.uk and
| | whsmith.co.uk are giving a May 7th
| release date, the publishers assure me
| | that the real date for release
| if......wait for it, wait for
| it......JUNE
| | 5TH.
| |
| | I guess we will all have to wait a
| little longer
| |
| | and the cheapest place I have found
| the book for pre-order in the UK is
| | www.swotbooks.com who are selling it
| for £12.95!
| |
| | Paul
| |
| |
| |
| |
| ****************************************
| ******************************
| | This email and any files transmitted
| with it are confidential and
| | intended solely for the use of the
| individual or entity to whom they
| | are addressed. If you have received
| this email in error please notify
| | the system manager.
| |
| | This footnote also confirms that this
| email message has been swept by
| | MIMEsweeper for the presence of
| computer viruses.
| |
| | "
| |
| ****************************************
| ******************************
| |
| |
|
|



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From: "Wouter Durnez" <arutha_of_krondor@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Secret handshake
Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 19:00:34 +0000
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*** EOOH ***
X-Originating-IP: [213.224.83.134]
From: "Wouter Durnez" <arutha_of_krondor@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Secret handshake
Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 19:00:34 +0000
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True.
(Trying to establish the world record short reply's here, how am I doing?)
wouter


>From: RBlackley@aol.com
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
>Subject: Re: Secret handshake
>Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 16:06:36 EDT
>
>Why not say "Hi Ray, I'm on the e-mail list!, Its finally nice to meet you 
>in
>person.
>Just a thought
>Richard"
>
> > [Me again]
> >
> > I've just had a good idea.
> >
> > Why not a bookmark with a graphic on it?
> >
> > I.e. someone on the list pick a picture, everyone prints it out, and 
>leaves
> > it poking out the book to be signed, to be spotted by Ray.
> >
> > Easy!
> >
> >
> >
> > BJS
> >
>
>
>-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
>"We don't want to go back to tomorrow, we want to go forward."
>Dan Quayle
>-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-




_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx



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From: "Bruce Stedman" <bjs@bjs.org.uk>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L'" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Movie
Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 19:50:57 +0100
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Bruce Stedman" <bjs@bjs.org.uk>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L'" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Movie
Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 19:50:57 +0100
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I seem to have confused some of you.
Del Boy, is indeed from Only Fools and Horses (A UK sitcom I thought the US
was into in a big way).
Anyway, he gets his french phrases wrong.

E.g.
"bonjour" for goodbye
"au revoir" for hello
"aujord-hui" for sorry
"mange tout" for Oh dear
"al la bruchette"
"Pas de Calais"
"passion d'amour"
"allemagne dix points"
"Eau de Givenchy"
"je ne sais quoi"
"Piece de rechange"

DEL: Look, I wish you lot wouldn’t keep contraverting me. I’ll have you know
my English is on a par with my French which I learnt from a bird many years
ago who was attending that high class university in Paris, the sorbet!
DENZIL: Del, it’s the Sorbo....

http://www.hookystreet.co.uk/competition1.html has some scripts if you want
to see for yourself.


Bonjour <g>,
BJS



-----Original Message-----
>From: Sylvain Guehl [mailto:fenyxkell@demo.xandmail.com]
>Sent: 02 May 2002 01:25
>To: FEISTFANS-L
>Subject: RE: Movie
>
>
>> The star of arguably the funniest sitcom ever - "Only Fools and Horses".
>> (This is not a prompt for a new thread!)
>
>Thanks.
>
>> Doesn't it literally mean "Good day"? Used in practice as Good Morning,
>Good
>> afternoon and Good day?
>
>Yes, exactly. But we never use it to say bye. Ah, quiet complex.
>
>In english you may say "good day" to mean "have a nice day" (you're leaving
>someone). In french you say "bonjour" when you meet someone and "bonne
>journée" when you leave someone.
>
>Anyway :)
>
>Syl
>


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From: "Terri Lyn Layman" <terrilyn@fullnet.com>
To: "FeistList \(E-mail\)" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: OT: Faggots
Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 14:46:08 -0500
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*** EOOH ***
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: "Terri Lyn Layman" <terrilyn@fullnet.com>
To: "FeistList \(E-mail\)" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: OT: Faggots
Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 14:46:08 -0500
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Donal, David, the list,

I'm sorry for being so defensive about the above term in the last couple
days.

I've been dealing with some personal issues from anywhere as mundane as
trying to finish settling into my new place, (which when there's a tornado
advisory every other day makes you fear for your life/sanity... I *almost*
saw one form yesterday... very scary!) to being very upset that my body's
decided that I should reverse my circadian rythem and become a night
creature.  (I already was a late-evening creature in the first place... but
now I'm loosing daylight and it's a concern when I have SAD.).

Anyhow, stress affects my sense of humor, and sometimes causes me to take
things a touch *too* personally.

Again, I'm sorry.
-TerriLyn (upset right now that she's too wiped from above "time shift" to
get to the gym... and due to the ineptitude of the library around here has
to speed read two books in two days.... you think they coulda maybe sent the
books in ORDER?   I think I'm just too tired for my own good.)



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From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT:  RE: Mayonnaise verus Tomato sauce
References: <008301c1f1cd$ee0b4430$2100a8c0@pengelley.com>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 16:25:16 -0600
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT:  RE: Mayonnaise verus Tomato sauce
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

David Pengelley wrote:
> 
> BTW - Craig, you should be bracing yourself for the imminent glut of OT
> Star Wars mail I'm sure somebody is going to start in a few weeks?

Atleast Star Wars is remotely related to Ray's books, in that they are
sci-fi/fantasy. :P

Craig J. Ries



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Subject: Re: Betrayal at Krondor PC game tech question
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 16:30:04 -0600
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Betrayal at Krondor PC game tech question
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Anestis Kozakis wrote:
> 
> And a drive bay chassis and caddy only cost $30 US or less.

And as I said, making adjustments to what you have already is free.

> Fiddling with the innards of a computer isn't that hard.  And
> besides, almost everybody knows someone who's a techhead.

NOT EVERYBODY IS A TECHHEAD EITHER. Good lord. Should I repeat that too?

I know quite a bit about computers and I still hate to open mine up.

> One computer will run the program flawlessly, no bugs, no problems,
> no crashes.  The other will have the program crashing, taking the
> computer with it, closing down due to bugs, and no amount of tweaking
> can get the program to run properly.

Then maybe, at the very least, people should try the free option before
going out and spending a bunch of money for one DOS game.

Craig J. Ries



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Subject: Re: Betrayal at Krondor PC game tech question
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*** EOOH ***
From: Gkhd11a@aol.com
Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 20:50:55 EDT
Subject: Re: Betrayal at Krondor PC game tech question
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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To Craig J. Ries

       You have said that you don't like opening up your PC, and I don't seem 
to understand everybodies phobia about opening it up.  I build my computer 
with no experiance in instaling hardware.  My freind helped me, but he didn't 
have much more experiance then me.  I had a few troubles, but they were all 
fixiable, even some of the ones that everybodie is afraid of, like a windows 
crash.  All I had to do was put the hard drive into another computer and 
transfur my documents, save files, and music on to the other hard drive, then 
I reformated my hard drive and put windows back on.  Then I restored all my 
files and everything was great again.  It took me 3 hours to restore my 
computer that had completely crashed back to normal.  What is the worst thing 
that can happen?  It's pretty hard to break the componets- I chiped off part 
of my cpu fan that held it on the heat sink, so I just tapped it back on.  I 
have not had to replace it since (1 year ago).  I also rubbed my feet on a 
rug, and proceded to give a shock of stadic electricity to my motherboard, 
which is suppostu destroy it, yet I had no problums.  My freinds didn't 
beleive me untill I showed to them me shocking my motherboard 4 times, and 
then turning on my computer on no problem.  I rambeld a bit there, but I'm 
just at a loss for why everybody is so scared to mess with there computer 
some.

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Subject: Re: Betrayal at Krondor PC game tech question OT
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*** EOOH ***
From: RBlackley@aol.com
Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 21:20:02 EDT
Subject: Re: Betrayal at Krondor PC game tech question OT
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

The reason "everybody is so scared to mess with there computer some. "  is 
because not everyone is so lucky!!!
Richard 

> 
> To Craig J. Ries 
> 
>       You have said that you don't like opening up your PC, and I don't 
> seem to understand everybodies phobia about opening it up.  I build my 
> computer with no experiance in instaling hardware.  My freind helped me, 
> but he didn't have much more experiance then me.  I had a few troubles, but 
> they were all fixiable, even some of the ones that everybodie is afraid of, 
> like a windows crash.  All I had to do was put the hard drive into another 
> computer and transfur my documents, save files, and music on to the other 
> hard drive, then I reformated my hard drive and put windows back on.  Then 
> I restored all my files and everything was great again.  It took me 3 hours 
> to restore my computer that had completely crashed back to normal.  What is 
> the worst thing that can happen?  It's pretty hard to break the componets- 
> I chiped off part of my cpu fan that held it on the heat sink, so I just 
> tapped it back on.  ! ! ;I have not had to replace it since (1 year ago).  
> I also rubbed my feet on a rug, and proceded to give a shock of stadic 
> electricity to my motherboard, which is suppostu destroy it, yet I had no 
> problums.  My freinds didn't beleive me untill I showed to them me shocking 
> my motherboard 4 times, and then turning on my computer on no problem.  I 
> rambeld a bit there, but I'm just at a loss for why everybody is so scared 
> to mess with there computer some. 


-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
"We don't want to go back to tomorrow, we want to go forward."
Dan Quayle
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-

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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 20:33:20 -0600
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Betrayal at Krondor PC game tech question
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Gkhd11a@aol.com wrote:
> 
> What is the worst thing that can happen?

Static electricity.

Just because you are fortunate enough to have given a static shock to
your comp doesn't mean everybody else is as fortunate, as I have fried a
motherboard that way by accident.

Craig J. Ries



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Subject: Re: OT:  RE: Mayonnaise verus Tomato sauce
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: OT:  RE: Mayonnaise verus Tomato sauce
Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 23:43:23 -0500
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

    That better not start again, it is bloody annoying, and among
the worst wastes of bandwidth for this list.  I'm going to say now:
Star Wars has NOTHING to do with Ray's books.  Just because book
sellers lump them together doesn't mean we have to.  So before
anyone gets an ideas about posting how great (or terrible or
whatever) a movie it will be, is, or was, just do us a favor and
DON'T.

-James.  (who detests Starwars, and if he did like it would have
joined Starwars-L not Feistfans-L)

> > BTW - Craig, you should be bracing yourself for the imminent glut of OT
> > Star Wars mail I'm sure somebody is going to start in a few weeks?
>
> Atleast Star Wars is remotely related to Ray's books, in that they are
> sci-fi/fantasy. :P



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*** EOOH ***
From: "Rich" <richse@eden.rutgers.edu>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Betrayal at Krondor PC game tech question
Date: Fri, 3 May 2002 00:47:02 -0400
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

    I agree with you that building, altering, fixing your computer
hardware and software is not as hard as a lot of people think, but I
disagree with a few things you have said. Tapping the part of the fan
back on your heatsink might work for you, but if you had damaged it
and say your CPU was an Athlon (which need active cooling or they are
toast in minutes or less) you would have been out of a processor.
Also the electric shock u gave to your motherboard repeated times is
not definately going to kill it instantly.. the EMS causes breakdowns
in the circuitry that can result in many things from complete failure,
to errors, or even just a reduced lifetime.

Rich
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: Gkhd11a@aol.com 
>To: FEISTFANS-L 
>Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2002 8:50 PM
>Subject: Re: Betrayal at Krondor PC game tech question
>
>
>To Craig J. Ries 
>
>      You have said that you don't like opening up your PC, and I
>don't seem to understand everybodies phobia about opening it up.  I
>build my computer with no experiance in instaling hardware.  My
>freind helped me, but he didn't have much more experiance then me.  I
>had a few troubles, but they were all fixiable, even some of the ones
>that everybodie is afraid of, like a windows crash.  All I had to do
>was put the hard drive into another computer and transfur my
>documents, save files, and music on to the other hard drive, then I
>reformated my hard drive and put windows back on.  Then I restored
>all my files and everything was great again.  It took me 3 hours to
>restore my computer that had completely crashed back to normal.  What
>is the worst thing that can happen?  It's pretty hard to break the
>componets- I chiped off part of my cpu fan that held it on the heat
>sink, so I just tapped it back on.  ! ! ;I have not had to replace it
>since (1 year ago).  I also rubbed my feet on a rug, and proceded to
>give a shock of stadic electricity to my motherboard, which is
>suppostu destroy it, yet I had no problums.  My freinds didn't
>beleive me untill I showed to them me shocking my motherboard 4
>times, and then turning on my computer on no problem.  I rambeld a
>bit there, but I'm just at a loss for why everybody is so scared to
>mess with there computer some.

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From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Betrayal at Krondor PC game tech question
Date: Fri, 3 May 2002 14:47:08 +0800
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*** EOOH ***
From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: Betrayal at Krondor PC game tech question
Date: Fri, 3 May 2002 14:47:08 +0800
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Deliberately sitting there and zapping your computer in the words of Tom
Arnold is "Ballsy. Stupid, but ballsy"

Computers are fickle things and I don't blame people for not wanting to
mess around with the innards of them. The new ATX machines are even
worse as they have a soft power switch, so even when turned off the
board still has power - you have to unplug the thing to be safe. How is
Joe Bloggs expected to know things like that, he might be lucky and get
away with it but I know people who have been doing it for 20 years and
still get caught occasionally.

You shouldn't have a go at people just because they lack confidence
(often justifiably) to do something. Especially when a mistake can be
reasonably costly and put them out of pocket.

David


-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Gkhd11a@aol.com
>Sent: Friday, 3 May 2002 8:51 AM
>To: FEISTFANS-L
>Subject: Re: Betrayal at Krondor PC game tech question
>
>
>To Craig J. Ries 
>
>      You have said that you don't like opening up your PC, and I don't
>seem to understand everybodies phobia about opening it up.  I build my
>computer with no experiance in instaling hardware.  My freind helped me,
>but he didn't have much more experiance then me.  I had a few troubles,
>but they were all fixiable, even some of the ones that everybodie is
>afraid of, like a windows crash.  All I had to do was put the hard drive
>into another computer and transfur my documents, save files, and music
>on to the other hard drive, then I reformated my hard drive and put
>windows back on.  Then I restored all my files and everything was great
>again.  It took me 3 hours to restore my computer that had completely
>crashed back to normal.  What is the worst thing that can happen?  It's
>pretty hard to break the componets- I chiped off part of my cpu fan that
>held it on the heat sink, so I just tapped it back on.  ! ! ;I have not
>had to replace it since (1 year ago).  I also rubbed my feet on a rug,
>and proceded to give a shock of stadic electricity to my motherboard,
>which is suppostu destroy it, yet I had no problums.  My freinds didn't
>beleive me untill I showed to them me shocking my motherboard 4 times,
>and then turning on my computer on no problem.  I rambeld a bit there,
>but I'm just at a loss for why everybody is so scared to mess with there
>computer some. 
>


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From: "Natalie Henderson" <natz101@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Mayonnaise verus Tomato sauce
Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 08:34:18 +0000
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From: "Natalie Henderson" <natz101@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Mayonnaise verus Tomato sauce
Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 08:34:18 +0000
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I have to say, my favourite that I always had at university was chips, 
cheese and beans. mmmmmmm ;)


>From: "Iain" <iainp@btinternet.com>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
>Subject: Re: Mayonnaise verus Tomato sauce
>Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 14:09:05 +0100
>
>My local chippy, Kingrib supper with cheese.   Hhhhuuuuuuuu........
>
>Iain.
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Richard Hogg <richard@hoggonline.co.uk>
>To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
>Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2002 1:38 PM
>Subject: RE: Mayonnaise verus Tomato sauce
>
>
> >
> > Curry sauce rates quite highly (has to be chinese style), but you really
> > can't beat salt & brown sauce.
> >
> > Richard.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of David Pengelley
> > Sent: 01 May 2002 19:09
> > To: FEISTFANS-L
> > Subject: OT: RE: Mayonnaise verus Tomato sauce
> >
> >
> > Chicken Salt and Vinegar are the only condiments required when it comes
> > to chips. And what is a faggot? (other than a bundle of sticks)
> >
> > David
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > > [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Jonathan Homer
> > > Sent: Thursday, 2 May 2002 1:49 AM
> > > To: FEISTFANS-L
> > > Subject: Re: Mayonnaise verus Tomato sauce
> > >
> > >
> > > I know this is off topic, but I've just gotta add my pennies
> > > worth to the
> > > debate - yep Salad Cream and chips is great - but that pales
> > > compared to
> > > curry and chips or indeed (shudders in excitement) Gravy and
> > > Chips (side
> > > order of Faggots as well).
> > >
> > > Actually how did this topic start off ? :-)
> > >
> > > Jon
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "MChaloner" <markchaloner@btinternet.com>
> > > To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> > > Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 6:35 PM
> > > Subject: Mayonnaise verus Tomato sauce
> > >
> > >
> > > : > From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > > : [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Richard
> > > Williamson
> > > : > ...and that you lot think that putting mayonnaise on your
> > > french fries
> > > : (which, I do admit are /Belgian/ in origin) is
> > > : > "normal".
> > > : > eeeeuuchhh.
> > > : > rip
> > > :
> > > : I believe it's actually Salad Cream (which is different).
> > > : Don't knock mayonnaise on chips 'til you've tried it.
> > > : I always tend to have mayonnaise now instead of tomato sauce.
> > > :
> > > : Mark ;-)
> > > :
> > >
> > >
> > > _________________________________________________________
> > > Do You Yahoo!?
> > > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
> > >
> >
> >
>


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.



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From: Fred Collington <fcolling@yahoo.com>
Subject: faggots?
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 3 May 2002 05:49:54 -0700 (PDT)
From: Fred Collington <fcolling@yahoo.com>
Subject: faggots?
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


> A certian percentage (anywhere from 10-35% depending
> on the study) fall into
> a class of peoples known derisively as "faggots".
> 
Do you  have to dry them for them to be faggots? I
don't think wet folks burn to well.

HeHe - I crack me up.

Back to lurking.......

Cheers,
Fred

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness
http://health.yahoo.com



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From: Andrea J Chee <andrea@bloodaxe.com>
Subject: Re: OT:  RE: Mayonnaise verus Tomato sauce
References: <008301c1f1cd$ee0b4430$2100a8c0@pengelley.com>
 <3CD1BCCC.2B002EA4@yifan.net> <001701c1f25d$100f4100$0de379a5@oemcomputer>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 3 May 2002 15:30:21 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Andrea J Chee <andrea@bloodaxe.com>
Subject: Re: OT:  RE: Mayonnaise verus Tomato sauce
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

In article <001701c1f25d$100f4100$0de379a5@oemcomputer>, James Young
<jajy@earthlink.net> writes
>    That better not start again, it is bloody annoying, and among
>the worst wastes of bandwidth for this list.  I'm going to say now:
>Star Wars has NOTHING to do with Ray's books.  Just because book
>sellers lump them together doesn't mean we have to.  So before
>anyone gets an ideas about posting how great (or terrible or
>whatever) a movie it will be, is, or was, just do us a favor and
>DON'T.

It was on topic the last time it came up, since although it had nothing
to do with Ray's books, he was talking about it. He may well want to
talk about it again when others have seen it.

- ANDREA

-- 
^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^
                  ANDROMEDA - Internet Goddess
<andrea@bloodaxe.com>                    http://www.bloodaxe.com/
Bloodaxe's History Links:   http://www.geocities.com/Athens/5055/
The Loony Bin Archive:               http://www.theloonies.co.uk/



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From: "David Christensen" <damc84@hotmail.com>
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From: "David Christensen" <damc84@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Richard A. Knaak
Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 21:22:11 +0000
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Anybody here ever heard of the guy? One of the few good writers to have 
written in the Dragonlance world - bettering Weis and Hickman, in my 
opinion.

David Christensen

_________________________________________________________________
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Subject: Re: Richard A. Knaak
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Date: Fri, 3 May 2002 17:46:37 -0400 (EDT)
From: Falconer <florin@mux.net>
To: <feistfans-l@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Richard A. Knaak
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On Fri, 3 May 2002, David Christensen wrote:

> Anybody here ever heard of the guy?

Yep. I've read his four Minotaur-related books and am eagerly awaiting his
upcoming trilogy.

> One of the few good writers to have written in the Dragonlance world

One of the better ones, yes.

> bettering Weis and Hickman, in my opinion.

No way. Not even close to W&H in my opinion. Regards.
--

Michael Falconer



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 16:03:58 -0600
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Richard A. Knaak
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Falconer wrote:
> 
> On Fri, 3 May 2002, David Christensen wrote:
> 
> > Anybody here ever heard of the guy?
> 
> Yep. I've read his four Minotaur-related books and am eagerly awaiting his
> upcoming trilogy.

Yeah, I still need to read his Warcraft & Diablo novels. He has his own
series, Dragonrealms or something, too.

Nice guy, always willing to answer email and stuff. :)

> > bettering Weis and Hickman, in my opinion.
> 
> No way. Not even close to W&H in my opinion. Regards.

Hey now, let's not punish this list for our debates on the DL mailing
list and newsgroup :)

Knaak is good tho, although his older books (particularly Legend of
Huma) are alot better imo.

Craig J. Ries



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References: <004a01c1f139$04dae9d0$43db1f3e@bjs_nt1.bjs.org.uk>	
 <3CD06A7B.D16AA9E3@yifan.net> <a05111702b8f6aef2fb83@[192.168.0.2]>
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Date: Sat, 4 May 2002 08:22:23 +1000
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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Anestis Kozakis <kenosti@labyrinth.net.au>
Subject: Re: Betrayal at Krondor PC game tech question
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sat, 4 May 2002 08:22:23 +1000
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Anestis Kozakis <kenosti@labyrinth.net.au>
Subject: Re: Betrayal at Krondor PC game tech question
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

>Anestis Kozakis wrote:
>>
>>  And a drive bay chassis and caddy only cost $30 US or less.
>
>And as I said, making adjustments to what you have already is free.

But not all free adjustments work on every system, as I said

>
>>  Fiddling with the innards of a computer isn't that hard.  And
>>  besides, almost everybody knows someone who's a techhead.
>
>NOT EVERYBODY IS A TECHHEAD EITHER. Good lord. Should I repeat that too?

And should I repeat what I said, that almost everybody knows someone 
who is a Techhead?  I never said everyone _was_ a techhead.  Most of 
my friends call me when they have computer problems, and I'm happy to 
help them if and when I can.  but I don't know everything, and when 
that happens, I turn to my other friends who are even more techheads 
than I am.

And there was no need to shout.  I can hear quite fine thank you.

>I know quite a bit about computers and I still hate to open mine up.

And so do, because most of the time it's too fiddly and time consuming.

>  > One computer will run the program flawlessly, no bugs, no problems,
>>  no crashes.  The other will have the program crashing, taking the
>>  computer with it, closing down due to bugs, and no amount of tweaking
>>  can get the program to run properly.
>
>Then maybe, at the very least, people should try the free option before
>going out and spending a bunch of money for one DOS game.

And based on the above on what I said, if the free option should not 
work due to the quirkiness of the computer, what then?

I posted this solution as an option for people to try.  I find it's 
what works for me.  It's a viable, possible solution that might help 
alleviate someone's problem.

And yet, it seems to me that you're telling people that they should 
discount and dismiss this solution because it costs a piddly amount 
of money and requires some simple modifications to the insides of a 
computer that almost anyone can do given proper instructions.

I've found hard drives mounted in removable hard drive bays are great 
for transferring large quantities (say many gigs) of files from one 
computer to another.  They tend to be a worthwhile investment.

It might not be the solution you are prepared to use, but don't claim 
to know that it won't interest or help some other person on the list 
by berating and putting the solution down.

it';s an option that is out there, and I'm letting people know about it.

>Craig J. Ries

Anestis.
-- 
kenosti@labyrinth.net.au
"A complete list of this film's associate producers
  is available upon request."
    -- In End Credits for "State and Main"



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	 <3CD06A7B.D16AA9E3@yifan.net> <a05111702b8f6aef2fb83@[192.168.0.2]>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 16:45:31 -0600
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Betrayal at Krondor PC game tech question
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Anestis Kozakis wrote:
> 
> And yet, it seems to me that you're telling people that they should
> discount and dismiss this solution because it costs a piddly amount
> of money and requires some simple modifications to the insides of a
> computer that almost anyone can do given proper instructions.

Piddly? Possibly $30, $40, $50 or more, plus time invested, really isn't
worth it for a DOS game.

Craig J. Ries



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Date: Fri, 3 May 2002 22:14:42 EDT
Subject: Re: Betrayal at Krondor PC game tech question
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*** EOOH ***
From: Gkhd11a@aol.com
Date: Fri, 3 May 2002 22:14:42 EDT
Subject: Re: Betrayal at Krondor PC game tech question
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Craig J. Ries wrote:

>Gkhd11a@aol.com wrote:
>> 
>> What is the worst thing that can happen?
>
>Static electricity.
>
>Just because you are fortunate enough to have given a static shock to
>your comp doesn't mean everybody else is as fortunate, as I have fried a
>motherboard that way by accident.
>
>Craig J. Ries

       I thought you might have a story like that.  Either I'm lucky, or you 
had some bad luck.  Have you ever hurt your computer while working on the 
inside, beside destroying a motherboard?

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Date: Fri, 3 May 2002 22:19:34 EDT
Subject: Re: Betrayal at Krondor PC game tech question
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*** EOOH ***
From: Gkhd11a@aol.com
Date: Fri, 3 May 2002 22:19:34 EDT
Subject: Re: Betrayal at Krondor PC game tech question
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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Rich wrote

>    I agree with you that building, altering, fixing your computer hardware 
>and software is not as hard as a lot of people think, but I disagree with a 
>few things you have said. Tapping the part of the fan back on your heatsink 
>might work for you, but if you had damaged it and say your CPU was an Athlon 
>(which need active cooling or they are toast in minutes or less) you would 
>have been out of a processor.  Also the electric shock u gave to your 
>motherboard repeated times is not definately going to kill it instantly.. 
>the EMS causes breakdowns in the circuitry that can result in many things 
>from complete failure, to errors, or even just a reduced lifetime.
> 
>Rich
>

Funney, I do have a athlon, 1.3 Ghz.  And I sure hope my motherboard is 
slowly dwindeling down to nothing.  I don't think I'll try pushing my luck 
and give it another shock...

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Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 20:21:56 -0600
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Betrayal at Krondor PC game tech question
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Gkhd11a@aol.com wrote:
> 
>       I thought you might have a story like that.  Either I'm lucky,
> or you had some bad luck.  Have you ever hurt your computer while
> working on the inside, beside destroying a motherboard?

I've run the gamut of computer hardware problems: failed hard drives,
failed disk drives, cd-rom that was off its tracks and had to be
replaced, modem AND motherboard fried by lightning, and then motherboard
toasted by static.
The only one that was my fault was the static electricity frying the
motherboard... and we lied to Best Buy and told 'em it up and died. That
whole computer needed replaced with all the problems we had with it :P

Considering the place I live in now is entirely carpeted floor, except
for linolium in the (small) kitchen and bathroom, I have to do things
rather carefully.
At the beginning of the year I had my computer literally sitting without
it's case for a week because I was dealing with switching hard drives
(after my existing one failed) and then trying to get all the necessary
numbers and crap on what my hardware looks like so I could go to a
Kinko's and download the drivers :)

This weekend I plan to get a cd burner (finally) and a surge protector
(very finally :) so I'll add my replacement drive while I'm at it. But I
still hate doing it and I always fear frying something that's no longer
under warranty :)

Craig J. Ries



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Date: Fri, 3 May 2002 22:52:16 +0100
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From: Grandad Rufus <rufo@bigwig.net>
Subject: Re: Richard A. Knaak
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 3 May 2002 22:52:16 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Grandad Rufus <rufo@bigwig.net>
Subject: Re: Richard A. Knaak
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In article <F198qtNRXQSCHwDLkQo0000b4a6@hotmail.com>, David Christensen
<damc84@hotmail.com> writes
>Anybody here ever heard of the guy? One of the few good writers to have 
>written in the Dragonlance world - bettering Weis and Hickman, in my 
>opinion.
>
>David Christensen
>

I have two of his works. Wolfhelm & Ice Dragon. I like what I have read
so far.


-- 
*******
Grandad Rufus.

It's not that I have a dirty mind, you understand.
It's just that so many of my thoughts leave muddy little footprints...



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Subject: It's been a long while...
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From: "mtgv" <m_t_g_v@hotmail.com>
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Subject: It's been a long while...
Date: Sat, 4 May 2002 19:02:15 +1000
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Hello Everyone

I've been out of the loop for almost two years now. I was off doing
research and writing up my paper for publication, etc, etc. I dare say
I've missed out on a tremendous amount.

In the time I've been away I've re-read everything of Mr Feist's
that's available, and I've gone through Janny Wurts and George
R.R. Martin - who I must say, I thoroughly enjoyed. I recall that the
list subscribers were always fairly spot on with their recommendations
of good books to read; so I was hoping you may be able to point me in
the direction of some other good books in the fantasy genre. I would
be very appreciative.

Thankyou

_______________________________

Language is the armoury of the human mind, and at once contains the
trophies of its past and the weapons of its future conquests.
~ Samuel Taylor Coleridge ~

mtgv
QLD AUSTRALIA 4215
Email: m_t_g_v@hotmail.com
_______________________________

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To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: It's been a long while...
Date: Sat, 4 May 2002 19:12:22 +1000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Cameron Duncan" <cduncan@atinera.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: It's been a long while...
Date: Sat, 4 May 2002 19:12:22 +1000
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Welcome back!!

If you've already read Honored Enemy, you'll be happy to know that the next
Legends of the Riftwar book-
Murder in LaMut is due out sometime around the end of the month/early next
month.

Other authors I'd personally recommend (though others may not - it's always
a personal thing) are
Terry Brooks and Sara Douglass.  Also the Weis/Hickman (spelling?)
Dragonlance stuff........

I'm sure the better read members of the list will have more recommendations.

Cameron
Brisbane Australia
>  -----Original Message-----
>  From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of mtgv
>  Sent: Saturday, May 04, 2002 7:02 PM
>  To: FEISTFANS-L
>  Subject: It's been a long while...
>
>
>  Hello Everyone
>
>  I've been out of the loop for almost two years now. I was off doing
>research and writing up my paper for publication, etc, etc. I dare say I've
>missed out on a tremendous amount.
>
>  In the time I've been away I've re-read everything of Mr Feist's that's
>available, and I've gone through Janny Wurts and George R.R. Martin - who I
>must say, I thoroughly enjoyed. I recall that the list subscribers were
>always fairly spot on with their recommendations of good books to read; so I
>was hoping you may be able to point me in the direction of some other good
>books in the fantasy genre. I would be very appreciative.
>
>  Thankyou
>
>  _______________________________
>
>  Language is the armoury of the human mind, and at once contains the
>trophies of its past and the weapons of its future conquests.
>  ~ Samuel Taylor Coleridge ~
>
>  mtgv
>  QLD AUSTRALIA 4215
>  Email: m_t_g_v@hotmail.com
>  _______________________________

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Subject: RE: It's been a long while...
Date: Sat, 4 May 2002 06:29:57 -0400
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From: "rob tavares" <vze26fdh@verizon.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: RE: It's been a long while...
Date: Sat, 4 May 2002 06:29:57 -0400
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Try Robert Jordan, L.E. Modesitt Jr., and probably Stephen
Lawhead(preferably the silverhand trilogy over the Arthurian)
 
-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of mtgv
>Sent: Saturday, May 04, 2002 5:02 AM
>To: FEISTFANS-L
>Subject: It's been a long while...
> 
>Hello Everyone
> 
>I've been out of the loop for almost two years now. I was off doing
>research and writing up my paper for publication, etc, etc. I dare say
>I've missed out on a tremendous amount. 
> 
>In the time I've been away I've re-read everything of Mr Feist's that's
>available, and I've gone through Janny Wurts and George R.R. Martin -
>who I must say, I thoroughly enjoyed. I recall that the list subscribers
>were always fairly spot on with their recommendations of good books to
>read; so I was hoping you may be able to point me in the direction of
>some other good books in the fantasy genre. I would be very
>appreciative.
> 
>Thankyou
> 
>_______________________________
> 
>Language is the armoury of the human mind, and at once contains the
>trophies of its past and the weapons of its future conquests.
>~ Samuel Taylor Coleridge ~
> 
>mtgv
>QLD AUSTRALIA 4215
>Email: m_t_g_v@hotmail.com
>_______________________________

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From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: It's been a long while...
In-Reply-To: <OE75Ka8Th6kx86tJAG80000632e@hotmail.com>
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Date: Sun, 5 May 2002 11:34:38 +1000 (GMT+1000)
From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: It's been a long while...
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> Hello Everyone
> I've been out of the loop for almost two years now. I was off doing research and writing up my paper for publication, etc, etc. I dare say I've missed out on a tremendous amount.
> In the time I've been away I've re-read everything of Mr Feist's that's available, and I've gone through Janny Wurts and George R.R. Martin - who I must say, I thoroughly enjoyed. I recall that the list subscribers were always fairly spot on with their recommendations of good books to read; so I was hoping you may be able to point me in the direction of some other good books in the fantasy genre. I would be very appreciative.
> Thankyou

My list of recommendations...

David Eddings, Guy Gavriel Kay (especially "Tigana"), Tad Williams,
Stephen Donaldson, David Gemmell, and if you're an aussie, Dirk Strasser
and Tony Shillitoe.

Thanks
Darragh
================================================
University of Queensland
Information Technology / Arts (History) student
[Email #1] s356179@student.uq.edu.au
[Email #2] squik@solutionone.com.au
[Web Site] http://hainsworth.ath.cx/~squik/
================================================



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From: "Jason Martin" <res0b95g@verizon.net>
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From: "Jason Martin" <res0b95g@verizon.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Author recommendation
Date: Sat, 4 May 2002 19:23:47 -0700
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Well a friend of mine loaned me a series and I rather enjoy it.  Reading it
till I can scrape up enough money to buy Ray's new book.  Anyhow the author
is
Juliet E. McKenna and the Triliogy is the Einarinn series.  First book is
the Thiefs Gamble.  She has an excellent style combining First Person and
Third Person point of views on the series.  She is under EOS'S label which
is the same as Ray's I think..  Anyhow if find yourself looking for
something new till Ray's next one, give her a try.

Jason

"Too much knowlege never makes for simple decisions."
                           Ghanima- Children of Dune



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From: "Andy Holcombe" <andy_wan_kenobi@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re: Richard A. Knaak
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>From: "David Christensen" <damc84@hotmail.com>

>Anybody here ever heard of the guy? One of the few good writers to have
>written in the Dragonlance world - bettering Weis and Hickman, in my
>opinion.

I'm not prepared to go that far (better than Weis and Hickman) but I do 
believe that Knaak is the best Dragonlance writer after them.  Of course 
Weis and Hickman have been able to write multiple volume epics in addition 
to the short stories and single volume stories than Knaak has given us in 
the Dragonlance Saga.  Someday, I will read his non-shared universe 
material.


Andy Holcombe
Andy_wan_Kenobi@hotmail.com

"To err is human, but to really foul things up requires a computer."
     -Farmers' Almanac 1978

"I don't give a damn for a man who can only spell a word one way."
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From: "Andy Holcombe" <andy_wan_kenobi@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Recomendations
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>From: "mtgv" <m_t_g_v@hotmail.com>
>
>so I was hoping you may be able to point me in the direction of some >other 
>good books in the fantasy genre. I would be very appreciative.

I recomend Terry Goodkind, Terry Brooks, J.R.R. Tolkien, David Eddings (with 
or without Leigh), L.E. Modesitti's Recluse Saga, Anne McCaffrey, Margaret 
Weis (by herself or with Tracy Hickman or Don Perlin), Melanie Rawn, Robert 
Jordan, and books by Dan Parkinson and Richard Knaak in the Dragonlance 
Saga.  The Star Wars: New Jedi Order series has been very good as well.

Andy Holcombe
Andy_wan_Kenobi@hotmail.com

"To err is human, but to really foul things up requires a computer."
     -Farmers' Almanac 1978

"I don't give a damn for a man who can only spell a word one way."
     -Mark Twain

"History will be kind to me, for I intend to write it."
     -Winston Churchill


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From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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Andy Holcombe wrote:
> 
> Margaret Weis (by herself or with Tracy Hickman or Don Perlin),

That's Don Perrin, Margaret's huband. I have enjoyed the books they have
written together.

> and books by Dan Parkinson and Richard Knaak in the Dragonlance Saga.

I need to look around for Parkinson's other works. I know he wrote some
Western stuff, and sadly he passed away last year.

> The Star Wars: New Jedi Order series has been very good as well.

Particularly if you like fantasy in general, you'll find three authors
that are well-known for their Forgotten Realms novels (Salvatore,
Denning, and now Cunningham) writing for that series.

Craig J. Ries



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Subject: Re: Recomendations
Date: Sun, 5 May 2002 01:02:42 -0700
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From: "Andrew Scott" <a.sc0tt@attbi.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Recomendations
Date: Sun, 5 May 2002 01:02:42 -0700
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From: "Andy Holcombe" <andy_wan_kenobi@hotmail.com>
Subject: Recomendations
> >From: "mtgv" <m_t_g_v@hotmail.com>
> >
> >so I was hoping you may be able to point me in the direction of some
>other
> >good books in the fantasy genre. I would be very appreciative.
>
> I recomend Terry Goodkind, Terry Brooks, J.R.R. Tolkien, David Eddings (with
> or without Leigh), L.E. Modesitti's Recluse Saga, Anne McCaffrey, Margaret
> Weis (by herself or with Tracy Hickman or Don Perlin), Melanie Rawn, Robert
> Jordan, and books by Dan Parkinson and Richard Knaak in the Dragonlance
> Saga.  The Star Wars: New Jedi Order series has been very good as well.
>
> Andy Holcombe
> Andy_wan_Kenobi@hotmail.com

Id recommend Robin Hobb's books. Her Farseer Trilogy is written almost
entirely in first person as the main character recalls his childhood. Her
other books continue the storyline although they follow more characters.






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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Drinks with Ray
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From: coweater@alphalink.com.au
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Drinks with Ray
Date: Sun, 5 May 2002 21:30:05 +1000
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For those people who repsonded to my emails last week, The bookstore 
manager is still trying to organise something and should have some news 
for us within a week for a Melbourne based thing.

On a side note, to any members on the list from Sydney, my work is sending 
me to Darling Habour all week and I'll be staying in north sydney (Habour 
View hotel on Blue street, somehting like that). Would anyone be 
interested in meeting for drinks or a chat ?

Regards,

Brad

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From: "Shadow" <g_lordshadow@blueyonder.co.uk>
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Subject: Licensing on Feist
Date: Sun, 5 May 2002 22:56:02 +0100
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Shadow" <g_lordshadow@blueyonder.co.uk>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Licensing on Feist
Date: Sun, 5 May 2002 22:56:02 +0100
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Does anybody know the contact details to Raymond Feist or his agent, as
I'm after certain licensing information concerning Raymond Feist's
Midkemia works, and couldn't find any links or email addresses of who I
would have to contact to get this information?

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Date: Sun, 5 May 2002 18:59:43 EDT
Subject: Somebody is making a Krondor Mod for dungeon seige...
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From: Gkhd11a@aol.com
Date: Sun, 5 May 2002 18:59:43 EDT
Subject: Somebody is making a Krondor Mod for dungeon seige...
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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And I don't think they have ray's permission.

here is the discussion.

---------------

Hiya, 
Anyone fancy doing a Siegelet based on Raymod E. Fiests world or Krondor?
I've got a few ideas, but nothing else.
Talk to me.

lordderfel27@hotmail.com

-------------
>    
    
>
<A HREF="http://www.forumplanet.com/planetdungeonsiege/user.asp?gid=5365802&mid=643475">Draugen</A>
Farmer
Posts: 9    >  #2  Apr 28, 02 - 6:41 PM      >  >  >    
>    
>    
>    
In Reply To #1
I used to play Betrayal at Krondor and it was and still remains a cool game 
(but I'm too spoiled to play such an old game). One of my first RPG games on 
the PC I think. Afterwards I still hanged on to all those lock riddles.

I miss having games where you travel long distances by elapsing time and 
subtracting rations instead of actually having to go all that way, like in 
that game.

.:Draugen
ICQ: 9866505    
>    
    
>
<A HREF="http://www.forumplanet.com/planetdungeonsiege/user.asp?gid=4105265&mid=602836">Malkor</A>
Farmer
Posts: 16   >  #3  Apr 28, 02 - 11:37 PM     >  >  >    
>    
>    
>    
In Reply To #1

I've thought about it. Their are a lot of wonderful possibilities in his 
material, but I think we'd run into some legal troubles with it. I think 
Sierra might still have the rights to Feist's game titles.

It does seem like a great fit for Dungeon Siege though. Novindus would be 
really cool...since almost everything there was an enemy to the party. The 
brotherhood of the dark path, the pantathians, the hall of worlds, the 
Riftwar...all of these would make excellent sieglets/areas.

    
>    
    
>
<A HREF="http://www.forumplanet.com/planetdungeonsiege/user.asp?gid=15224699&mid=644860">Evil Bob</A>
Farmer
Posts: 4    >  #4  Apr 29, 02 - 2:59 PM      >  >  >    
>    
>    
>    
I am Interested In Helping with This Mod. I was going to make it By Myself if 
I had to. I Don't think Legal issure are a problum. Sierra Gives free copies 
of the Game out now. and Fiest even wrote it in a book. I think a Mod would 
be fine as Long as It's Non profit.I have a lot of Experience Making Worlds 
For Ultima Online Custom maps, Scripting, ETC Dungeon Siege Looks Fairly 
Easy. I also Have A T1 line and Run My own Web hosting services. I am 
currently trying to Learn Gmax. Anyone Interested in getting the Ball Rolling 
on a Krondor Mod let Me know. E-mail Salvation_army12@hotmail.com

    
>    
    
>
<A HREF="http://www.forumplanet.com/planetdungeonsiege/user.asp?gid=8553632&mid=641850">SS</A>
Wanderer
Posts: 183  >  #5  Apr 29, 02 - 3:36 PM      >  >  >    
>    
>    
>    
In Reply To #4

Do you have some weird problem with adding unneccessary capital letters?    
>    
    
>
<A HREF="http://www.forumplanet.com/planetdungeonsiege/user.asp?gid=9788492&mid=603639">Torm3nt</A>
Wanderer
Posts: 135  >  #6  Apr 29, 02 - 3:51 PM      >  >  >    
>    
>    
>    
AAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

*cough*

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA...

classic...

-----------------------------------
If at first you don't succeed, MOD IT! :D
Foreseen Eclipse
<A HREF="http://www.techstudios.com.au/~dsmod">http://www.techstudios.com.au/~dsmod</A>    
>    
    
>
<A HREF="http://www.forumplanet.com/planetdungeonsiege/user.asp?gid=15224699&mid=644860">Evil Bob</A>
Farmer
Posts: 4    >  #7  Apr 29, 02 - 9:08 PM      >  >  >    
>    
>    
>    
In Reply To #5

What's Wrong With Caps?? Actually I do have a bit of a prob and I am also 
slightly Dislexic. Sorry if it bothers ya.

Evil Bob

    
>    
    
>
<A HREF="http://www.forumplanet.com/planetdungeonsiege/user.asp?gid=8553632&mid=641850">SS</A>
Wanderer
Posts: 183  >  #8  Apr 30, 02 - 9:06 AM      >  >  >    
>    
>    
>    
In Reply To #7

Meh. Just curious as to why their use was seemingly random.
It doesn't bother me, just strange is all.

--
SS  
>    

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*** EOOH ***
From: Joel Rosenberg <joelr@ellegon.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Licensing on Feist
Date: Sun, 5 May 2002 18:09:04 -0500
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

On Sunday 05 May 2002 04:56 pm, you wrote:
> Does anybody know the contact details to Raymond Feist or his agent, as I'm
> after certain licensing information concerning Raymond Feist's Midkemia
> works, and couldn't find any links or email addresses of who I would have
> to contact to get this information?

Well, Ray does read this list.  



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To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
References: <002f01c1f47f$a65225f0$0100a8c0@Jazael>
Subject: Re: Licensing on Feist
Date: Sun, 5 May 2002 18:19:13 -0500
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Licensing on Feist
Date: Sun, 5 May 2002 18:19:13 -0500
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Actually we all know his (Raymond E. Feist) e-mail address, some of
us had his snail mail address (others may have his new one, but I'm
not one of them).  But you'll just have to ask him for that stuff
yourself.  He's on this list, and has been for a very long time.
Didn't you bother to read the FAQs or Info for Newbies when you
subscribed?

-James

----- Original Message -----
>From: "Shadow" <g_lordshadow@blueyonder.co.uk>
>To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
>Sent: Sunday, May 05, 2002 4:56 PM
>Subject: Licensing on Feist
>
>
>Does anybody know the contact details to Raymond Feist or his agent,
>as I'm after certain licensing information concerning Raymond
>Feist's Midkemia works, and couldn't find any links or email
>addresses of who I would have to contact to get this information?

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To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
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Subject: Re: Somebody is making a Krondor Mod for dungeon seige...
Date: Sun, 5 May 2002 18:21:28 -0500
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Somebody is making a Krondor Mod for dungeon seige...
Date: Sun, 5 May 2002 18:21:28 -0500
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

This looks to me like a classic case of people misunderstanding
copyrights.  I'm not going to make a call about what the legality of
it is, that's Ray's (and his lawyer's) job, but those persons
certainly don't seem to know who has which rights to what ideas.
Typical.

----- Original Message -----
From: <Gkhd11a@aol.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Sunday, May 05, 2002 5:59 PM
Subject: Somebody is making a Krondor Mod for dungeon seige...


> And I don't think they have ray's permission.
>
> here is the discussion.
>
>

<clipped for space>



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Subject: Re: Licensing on Feist
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sun, 5 May 2002 16:44:27 -0700
Subject: Re: Licensing on Feist
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Sunday, May 5, 2002, at 02:56 PM, Shadow wrote:

> Does anybody know the contact details to Raymond Feist or his agent, as 
> I'm after certain licensing information concerning Raymond Feist's 
> Midkemia works, and couldn't find any links or email addresses of who I 
> would have to contact to get this information?
>
>

What do you need?

E-mail me at the above address.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.

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Subject: Re: Somebody is making a Krondor Mod for dungeon seige...
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sun, 5 May 2002 16:47:44 -0700
Subject: Re: Somebody is making a Krondor Mod for dungeon seige...
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Sunday, May 5, 2002, at 03:59 PM, Gkhd11a@aol.com wrote:

> And I don't think they have ray's permission.
>
> here is the discussion.
>
[snip]

Direct them to Brad Templeton's web site on copyright myth:

http://www.templetons.com/brad/copymyths.html

They do not have any right to do this without my permission, let alone 
Sierra's.

Best, R.E.F>
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.

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Subject: Re: Licensing on Feist
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Shadow" <g_lordshadow@blueyonder.co.uk>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Licensing on Feist
Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 01:01:15 +0100
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

LOL, no i didnt actually, i hardly ever bother, suppose I should stop and
think once in a while :-)

----- Original Message -----
From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Monday, May 06, 2002 12:19 AM
Subject: Re: Licensing on Feist


> Actually we all know his (Raymond E. Feist) e-mail address, some of
> us had his snail mail address (others may have his new one, but I'm
> not one of them).  But you'll just have to ask him for that stuff
> yourself.  He's on this list, and has been for a very long time.
> Didn't you bother to read the FAQs or Info for Newbies when you
> subscribed?
>
> -James
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Shadow" <g_lordshadow@blueyonder.co.uk>
> To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> Sent: Sunday, May 05, 2002 4:56 PM
> Subject: Licensing on Feist
>
>
> Does anybody know the contact details to Raymond Feist or his agent,
> as I'm after certain licensing information concerning Raymond
> Feist's Midkemia works, and couldn't find any links or email
> addresses of who I would have to contact to get this information?
>



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Subject: Re: OT: Need Cat Help
Date: Mon, 06 May 2002 00:26:26 -0700
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Date: Mon, 06 May 2002 00:26:26 -0700
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>From: RMAskren@aol.com
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
>Subject: Re: OT:  Need Cat Help
>Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 21:58:50 EDT
>
>In a message dated 5/1/02 12:49:30 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
>res0b95g@verizon.net writes:
>
><< I just don't know if he is doing this to let us know he is mad or 
>getting>back at us for taking him to the vet for a few days, or if he is 
>still having
>some type of problem..? >>

My cat tends to pee on clothing and papers left in the basement. The vet has 
said there's nothing wrong with him a number of times, in fact he's an 
extremely healthy cat, so we just chalk it up to him being a miserable old 
(12 years) barn cat who can't go outside as much.

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From: "K. Griffith" <delenn_of_mir@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Now OT: Computers/OS (WAS Betrayal at Krondor PC game tech question)
Date: Mon, 06 May 2002 00:38:58 -0700
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*** EOOH ***
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From: "K. Griffith" <delenn_of_mir@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Now OT: Computers/OS (WAS Betrayal at Krondor PC game tech question)
Date: Mon, 06 May 2002 00:38:58 -0700
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I'm going to be purchasing a new computer soon, and was wondering what OS to 
get (perferably Windows, since most games won't run on Linux). Email me 
offlist so as to not clutter up the list with OT stuff.


>From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
>Subject: Re: Betrayal at Krondor PC game tech question
>Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 20:21:56 -0600
>
>Gkhd11a@aol.com wrote:
> >
> >       I thought you might have a story like that.  Either I'm lucky,
> > or you had some bad luck.  Have you ever hurt your computer while
> > working on the inside, beside destroying a motherboard?
>
>I've run the gamut of computer hardware problems: failed hard drives,
>failed disk drives, cd-rom that was off its tracks and had to be
>replaced, modem AND motherboard fried by lightning, and then motherboard
>toasted by static.
>The only one that was my fault was the static electricity frying the
>motherboard... and we lied to Best Buy and told 'em it up and died. That
>whole computer needed replaced with all the problems we had with it :P
>
>Considering the place I live in now is entirely carpeted floor, except
>for linolium in the (small) kitchen and bathroom, I have to do things
>rather carefully.
>At the beginning of the year I had my computer literally sitting without
>it's case for a week because I was dealing with switching hard drives
>(after my existing one failed) and then trying to get all the necessary
>numbers and crap on what my hardware looks like so I could go to a
>Kinko's and download the drivers :)
>
>This weekend I plan to get a cd burner (finally) and a surge protector
>(very finally :) so I'll add my replacement drive while I'm at it. But I
>still hate doing it and I always fear frying something that's no longer
>under warranty :)
>
>Craig J. Ries
>




_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx



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From: "mtgv" <m_t_g_v@hotmail.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
References: <OF431CD239.9F68784D-ONCA256BB0.003E7EBB@alphalink>
Subject: Re: Drinks with Ray
Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 19:48:31 +1000
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From: "mtgv" <m_t_g_v@hotmail.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu> (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Drinks with Ray
Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 19:48:31 +1000
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Hi All,

As I mentioned in my "return to the list" email recently, I've been out
of the loop for a couple of years. Am I interpreting this email
correctly? Is Mr Feist scheduled to come to Australia? (*Most excited
face ever*) If this is correct, I would be very grateful to anyone who
could give me details.

Cheers
mtgv
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: coweater@alphalink.com.au 
>To: FEISTFANS-L 
>Sent: Sunday, May 05, 2002 9:30 PM
>Subject: Drinks with Ray
>
>
>
>For those people who repsonded to my emails last week, The bookstore
>manager is still trying to organise something and should have some
>news for us within a week for a Melbourne based thing.
>
>On a side note, to any members on the list from Sydney, my work is
>sending me to Darling Habour all week and I'll be staying in north
>sydney (Habour View hotel on Blue street, somehting like
>that). Would anyone be interested in meeting for drinks or a chat ?
>
>Regards, 
>
>Brad

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From: "Donal K. Fellows" <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
In-reply-to: <OE26UD5euwdUTaGmvSV00007487@hotmail.com> (m_t_g_v@hotmail.com)
Subject: Re: Drinks with Ray
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Donal K. Fellows" <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: Drinks with Ray
Date: Mon, 06 May 2002 13:25:48 +0100
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

"mtgv" <m_t_g_v@hotmail.com>
> As I mentioned in my "return to the list" email recently, I've been out
> of the loop for a couple of years. Am I interpreting this email
> correctly? Is Mr Feist scheduled to come to Australia? (*Most excited
> face ever*) If this is correct, I would be very grateful to anyone who
> could give me details.

Yes, there is a tour being scheduled though the details are not yet
settled.  Such hard information as we do have can be found at:
  http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~fellowsd/REF/#events

If the information there is not as much as you would like, this is
because things are still up-in-the-air...  <g>

Donal.
-- 
Donal K. Fellows, Department of Computer Science, University of Manchester, UK.
(work) fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk     Tel: +44-161-275-6137  (preferred email addr.)
(home) donal@ugglan.demon.co.uk  Tel: +44-1274-401017   Mobile: +44-7957-298955
http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~fellowsd/  (Don't quote my .sig; I've seen it before!)



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From: Richard Stevenson <richard.stevenson@team.xtra.co.nz>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Drinks with Ray
In-Reply-To: <E174hYq-0001lI-00@athene>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 13:26:19 +1200 (NZST)
From: Richard Stevenson <richard.stevenson@team.xtra.co.nz>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Drinks with Ray
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

On Mon, 6 May 2002, Donal K. Fellows wrote:

> "mtgv" <m_t_g_v@hotmail.com>
> > As I mentioned in my "return to the list" email recently, I've been out
> > of the loop for a couple of years.

[snip]

> Yes, there is a tour being scheduled though the details are not yet
> settled.  Such hard information as we do have can be found at:
>   http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~fellowsd/REF/#events

I'm in a similar position - been off-list for the best part of four years
now IIRC.  Nice to see some familiar faces here, and nicer still to find
that there's a tour heading close enough that I can get myself and SWMBO
there on air miles :D  Of course, there's always hope against hope that
Ray might end up here in NZ... :)

Cheers!

Richard


-- 
Richard Stevenson, Systems Specialist, Xtra Limited

#include <long_disclaimer_inflicted_by_marketing_droids.h>



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From: R Robertson <taliesin_21@yahoo.com.au>
Subject: OT: Translators
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 12:24:53 +1000 (EST)
From: R Robertson <taliesin_21@yahoo.com.au>
Subject: OT: Translators
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Hi all,

I'm a long(ish)-time lurker on the list and am just
breaking my silence now to ask something kind of OT
(typical *g*).

Anyway, I seem to remember there were some
translators on this list.  I can't remember if they'd
translated anything of Ray's but for my purposes that
doesn't matter too much.  I'm doing a presentation on
translation and just wanted to ask them a few
questions.  If you are a translator and wouldn't mind
answering some questions on what you do please reply
to the following address as soon as possible:

s007796@student.uq.edu.au

Or if there aren't any translators on this list
anymore but someone knows the email address of one of
them could you please pass it on to me (as long as
they wouldn't mind of course).

Thanks,
Rebecca.



http://messenger.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Messenger
- A great way to communicate long-distance for FREE!



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Subject: Tour Dates
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 07:14:34 -0700
Subject: Tour Dates
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: fEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

First bit of info:

Looks like I'll be in Holland first, September 7 & 8, then on to the UK, 
where I'll be running around from the 9th to the 15th.  No dates and 
cities yet, because I'll almost certailny be doing 90% of internal 
travel by car or train, with maybe a flight or two not yet booked.  I'll 
be in Perth Australia on the 18th, Melbourne on the 19th & 20th, Sydney 
on the 21st to 23rd, Brisbane on the 24th to 26th, then back home.

These dates are TENTATIVE, and I have no idea where I'll be appearing, 
so don't ask.  As soon as I know, I'll post it.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
From: "Western Rhythm" <info@westernrhythm.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Tour Dates
Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 23:07:51 +0800
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yay your coming to perth? cool! : )
Is this for Book signings or for workshops Mr Feist?
Is it alright if I annouce it on my webpage?


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Raymond Feist" <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: <fEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, May 07, 2002 10:14 PM
Subject: Tour Dates


> First bit of info:
> 
> Looks like I'll be in Holland first, September 7 & 8, then on to the UK, 
> where I'll be running around from the 9th to the 15th.  No dates and 
> cities yet, because I'll almost certailny be doing 90% of internal 
> travel by car or train, with maybe a flight or two not yet booked.  I'll 
> be in Perth Australia on the 18th, Melbourne on the 19th & 20th, Sydney 
> on the 21st to 23rd, Brisbane on the 24th to 26th, then back home.
> 
> These dates are TENTATIVE, and I have no idea where I'll be appearing, 
> so don't ask.  As soon as I know, I'll post it.
> 
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
> 
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
> stupidity.



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From: "James & Celeste Matlock" <jmatlock@cox.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Tour Dates
Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 08:11:28 -0700
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James & Celeste Matlock" <jmatlock@cox.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Tour Dates
Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 08:11:28 -0700
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But Ray,

Do you think you'll be...

and please try to get them to send you...

:) <G> ;)

Jim

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Raymond Feist
> Sent: Tuesday, May 07, 2002 7:15 AM
> To: fEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Subject: Tour Dates
> 
> 
> First bit of info:
> 
> Looks like I'll be in Holland first, September 7 & 8, then on to the UK, 
> where I'll be running around from the 9th to the 15th.  No dates and 
> cities yet, because I'll almost certailny be doing 90% of internal 
> travel by car or train, with maybe a flight or two not yet booked.  I'll 
> be in Perth Australia on the 18th, Melbourne on the 19th & 20th, Sydney 
> on the 21st to 23rd, Brisbane on the 24th to 26th, then back home.
> 
> These dates are TENTATIVE, and I have no idea where I'll be appearing, 
> so don't ask.  As soon as I know, I'll post it.
> 
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
> 
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
> stupidity.
> 



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 09:08:10 -0700
Subject: Re: Tour Dates
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Tuesday, May 7, 2002, at 08:07 AM, Western Rhythm wrote:

> yay your coming to perth? cool! : )
> Is this for Book signings or for workshops Mr Feist?
> Is it alright if I annouce it on my webpage?
>
>
Book signing.

You can put it up but make sure you market it tentative.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
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Hi Ray, I have some god questions for you:

1. Is Guis-Wa the "reveler" of hidden knowledge or the "revealer" of hidden 
knowledge?

2. Why is Abram-Sev know as the Lawgiver. Are these codified laws or 
physical laws?

2A. Also, why is he the Thunderer? Is he associated with the sky?

3. How long before the Riftwar did (the real) Murmandamus die?

Thanks

Jimmy

_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 13:00:57 -0400 (EDT)
From: Falconer <florin@mux.net>
To: <feistfans-l@cornell.edu>
Subject: OT: The Two Towers
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http://www.petitiononline.com/twotower/petition.html

(In regards to "The Two Towers" being an offensive title a la 9/11.)

LOL! The funniest part is the people who "signed" the petition. This
cracked me up--Some are dumb, some are clearly tongue in cheek.

"i pray every day that mr jackson will see the light and pull the plug on
this project. Mr Tolkien if that is his indead his real name does not seem
to be a very christian person to be so cynically cashing in on this
tragedy." -cathy clinton

"I hope someone will punish Tolkien for this tasteless act. :-("
-Thomas Veil

"TOLKIEN WAS A PROFIT, HE PREDICTED WTC BOMBING 47 YEARS BEFORE THE FACT,
AND THE THIRD MOVIE IS RETURN OF THE KING. JESUS IS COMING BACK YOU HAD
BETTER RECOGNIZE" -Omid

"I think they should rename New York too, because every time I hear "New
York" it makes me think of that day and it makes me cry. That and the
words "world," "trade," and "center" should be removed from our language
as well." -Cal Lou Sjerk

"We should be suggesting better alternative names. How about "Sauron
Strikes Back" ?" -kapowaz
--

Michael Falconer



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Date: Tue, 07 May 2002 14:02:27 -0400
From: "Paddyjack [ ]" <erykel@lycos.com>
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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Date: Tue, 07 May 2002 14:02:27 -0400
From: "Paddyjack [ ]" <erykel@lycos.com>
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 ROFL!

Very funny to read these comments. Was this petition started as a joke
or is there really somebody thinking the title should be changed
because of these sad events?

Paddyjack (astonished)

--

On Tue, 7 May 2002 13:00:57   
 Falconer wrote:
>http://www.petitiononline.com/twotower/petition.html
>
>(In regards to "The Two Towers" being an offensive title a la 9/11.)
>
>LOL! The funniest part is the people who "signed" the petition. This
>cracked me up--Some are dumb, some are clearly tongue in cheek.
>
>"i pray every day that mr jackson will see the light and pull the plug on
>this project. Mr Tolkien if that is his indead his real name does not seem
>to be a very christian person to be so cynically cashing in on this
>tragedy." -cathy clinton
>
>"I hope someone will punish Tolkien for this tasteless act. :-("
>-Thomas Veil
>
>"TOLKIEN WAS A PROFIT, HE PREDICTED WTC BOMBING 47 YEARS BEFORE THE FACT,
>AND THE THIRD MOVIE IS RETURN OF THE KING. JESUS IS COMING BACK YOU HAD
>BETTER RECOGNIZE" -Omid
>
>"I think they should rename New York too, because every time I hear "New
>York" it makes me think of that day and it makes me cry. That and the
>words "world," "trade," and "center" should be removed from our language
>as well." -Cal Lou Sjerk
>
>"We should be suggesting better alternative names. How about "Sauron
>Strikes Back" ?" -kapowaz
>--
>
>Michael Falconer
>
>



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From: "Wouter Durnez" <arutha_of_krondor@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re: OT: The Two Towers
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*** EOOH ***
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From: "Wouter Durnez" <arutha_of_krondor@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: OT: The Two Towers
Date: Tue, 07 May 2002 19:47:33 +0000
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I think Tolkien will be very frustrated when he reads this :-)


>From: "Paddyjack [ ]" <erykel@lycos.com>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: Re: OT: The Two Towers
>Date: Tue, 07 May 2002 14:02:27 -0400
>
>  ROFL!
>
>Very funny to read these comments. Was this petition started as a joke or 
>is there really somebody thinking the title should be changed because of 
>these sad events?
>
>Paddyjack (astonished)
>
>--
>
>On Tue, 7 May 2002 13:00:57
>  Falconer wrote:
> >http://www.petitiononline.com/twotower/petition.html
> >
> >(In regards to "The Two Towers" being an offensive title a la 9/11.)
> >
> >LOL! The funniest part is the people who "signed" the petition. This
> >cracked me up--Some are dumb, some are clearly tongue in cheek.
> >
> >"i pray every day that mr jackson will see the light and pull the plug on
> >this project. Mr Tolkien if that is his indead his real name does not 
>seem
> >to be a very christian person to be so cynically cashing in on this
> >tragedy." -cathy clinton
> >
> >"I hope someone will punish Tolkien for this tasteless act. :-("
> >-Thomas Veil
> >
> >"TOLKIEN WAS A PROFIT, HE PREDICTED WTC BOMBING 47 YEARS BEFORE THE FACT,
> >AND THE THIRD MOVIE IS RETURN OF THE KING. JESUS IS COMING BACK YOU HAD
> >BETTER RECOGNIZE" -Omid
> >
> >"I think they should rename New York too, because every time I hear "New
> >York" it makes me think of that day and it makes me cry. That and the
> >words "world," "trade," and "center" should be removed from our language
> >as well." -Cal Lou Sjerk
> >
> >"We should be suggesting better alternative names. How about "Sauron
> >Strikes Back" ?" -kapowaz
> >--
> >
> >Michael Falconer
> >
> >
>




_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.



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From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
References: <20020507130017.U16730-100000@mux.net>
Subject: Re: The Two Towers
Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 15:50:33 -0500
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: The Two Towers
Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 15:50:33 -0500
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As silly/stupid/inane/etc. as this is, I don't see why it is in my
mail box.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Falconer" <florin@mux.net>
To: <feistfans-l@cornell.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, May 07, 2002 12:00 PM
Subject: OT: The Two Towers


> http://www.petitiononline.com/twotower/petition.html
>
> (In regards to "The Two Towers" being an offensive title a la 9/11.)
>
> LOL! The funniest part is the people who "signed" the petition. This
> cracked me up--Some are dumb, some are clearly tongue in cheek.
>
> "i pray every day that mr jackson will see the light and pull the plug on
> this project. Mr Tolkien if that is his indead his real name does not seem
> to be a very christian person to be so cynically cashing in on this
> tragedy." -cathy clinton
>
> "I hope someone will punish Tolkien for this tasteless act. :-("
> -Thomas Veil
>
> "TOLKIEN WAS A PROFIT, HE PREDICTED WTC BOMBING 47 YEARS BEFORE THE FACT,
> AND THE THIRD MOVIE IS RETURN OF THE KING. JESUS IS COMING BACK YOU HAD
> BETTER RECOGNIZE" -Omid
>
> "I think they should rename New York too, because every time I hear "New
> York" it makes me think of that day and it makes me cry. That and the
> words "world," "trade," and "center" should be removed from our language
> as well." -Cal Lou Sjerk
>
> "We should be suggesting better alternative names. How about "Sauron
> Strikes Back" ?" -kapowaz
> --
>
> Michael Falconer
>



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To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
References: <C192EBC5-61C4-11D6-803B-003065A8A644@bittersea.com>
Subject: Re: Tour Dates
Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 18:35:53 +0100
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Christopher Livingston" <Chrislivingston@btinternet.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Tour Dates
Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 18:35:53 +0100
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If you come near Essex I'll get you a drink.

Chris Livingston


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Raymond Feist" <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: <fEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, May 07, 2002 3:14 PM
Subject: Tour Dates


> First bit of info:
> 
> Looks like I'll be in Holland first, September 7 & 8, then on to the UK, 
> where I'll be running around from the 9th to the 15th.  No dates and 
> cities yet, because I'll almost certailny be doing 90% of internal 
> travel by car or train, with maybe a flight or two not yet booked.  I'll 
> be in Perth Australia on the 18th, Melbourne on the 19th & 20th, Sydney 
> on the 21st to 23rd, Brisbane on the 24th to 26th, then back home.
> 
> These dates are TENTATIVE, and I have no idea where I'll be appearing, 
> so don't ask.  As soon as I know, I'll post it.
> 
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
> 
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
> stupidity.
> 



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From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Tour Dates
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 08:27:51 +1000 (GMT+1000)
From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Tour Dates
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

> First bit of info:
> Looks like I'll be in Holland first, September 7 & 8, then on to the UK,
> where I'll be running around from the 9th to the 15th.  No dates and
> cities yet, because I'll almost certailny be doing 90% of internal
> travel by car or train, with maybe a flight or two not yet booked.  I'll
> be in Perth Australia on the 18th, Melbourne on the 19th & 20th, Sydney
> on the 21st to 23rd, Brisbane on the 24th to 26th, then back home.
> These dates are TENTATIVE, and I have no idea where I'll be appearing,
> so don't ask.  As soon as I know, I'll post it.
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----

Thats a pretty hectic schedule...I don't envy you :)

Thanks
Darragh
================================================
University of Queensland
Information Technology / Arts (History) student
[Email #1] s356179@student.uq.edu.au
[Email #2] squik@solutionone.com.au
[Web Site] http://hainsworth.ath.cx/~squik/
================================================



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 07 May 2002 16:27:52 -0600
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: OT: The Two Towers
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Wouter Durnez wrote:
> 
> I think Tolkien will be very frustrated when he reads this :-)

Unless JRR is turning in his grave, I don't think he cares :)

I rather doubt Christopher, JRR's son who is still alive, would care
either.

While the whole thing seems genuine, I find it highly insulting. It's
like trying to rename something by Shakespeare just for the fact that
two kids named Romeo & Juliet kill themselves after falling in love :P

Craig J. Ries



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 09:04:15 +1000 (EST)
From: "A Irving" <s355156@student.uq.edu.au>
To: feistfans-l@cornell.edu
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woohoo! another UQ person on the list, hopefully we could get enough to 
make a drinks with Ray at the Pub (RedRoom) at our university, but somehow 
I doubt it. I guess i'll have to come up with a couple of hundred dollars 
to go to melbourne for that...

Responding To:    =?iso-8859-1?q?R=20Robertson?= <taliesin_21@yahoo.com.au>
Original Date:    Tue, 7 May 2002 12:24:53 +1000 (EST)
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> I'm a long(ish)-time lurker on the list and am just
> breaking my silence now to ask something kind of OT
> (typical *g*).
> 
> Anyway, I seem to remember there were some
> translators on this list.  I can't remember if they'd
> translated anything of Ray's but for my purposes that
> doesn't matter too much.  I'm doing a presentation on
> translation and just wanted to ask them a few
> questions.  If you are a translator and wouldn't mind
> answering some questions on what you do please reply
> to the following address as soon as possible:
> 
> s007796@student.uq.edu.au
> 
> Or if there aren't any translators on this list
> anymore but someone knows the email address of one of
> them could you please pass it on to me (as long as
> they wouldn't mind of course).
> 
> Thanks,
> Rebecca.
> 
> 
> 
> http://messenger.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Messenger
> - A great way to communicate long-distance for FREE!
> 




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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 16:38:04 -0700
Subject: Re: Questions for Ray
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On Tuesday, May 7, 2002, at 09:45 AM, James Silva wrote:

> Hi Ray, I have some god questions for you:
>
> 1. Is Guis-Wa the "reveler" of hidden knowledge or the "revealer" of 
> hidden knowledge?

Reveler.
>
> 2. Why is Abram-Sev know as the Lawgiver. Are these codified laws or 
> physical laws?

Because Steve Abrams was the guy who decided arguments in the rules.  
The rules of the game. Define "game" in the book concept any why you 
want.

>
> 2A. Also, why is he the Thunderer? Is he associated with the sky?

He gets pissed when you break the rules.

>
> 3. How long before the Riftwar did (the real) Murmandamus die?

Almost a thousand years.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 14:05:15 +1000 (GMT+1000)
From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: OT: The Two Towers
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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After reading some of the site posted on this topic, it seems to be a
joke.

> Wouter Durnez wrote:
> >
> > I think Tolkien will be very frustrated when he reads this :-)
>
> Unless JRR is turning in his grave, I don't think he cares :)
>
> I rather doubt Christopher, JRR's son who is still alive, would care
> either.
>
> While the whole thing seems genuine, I find it highly insulting. It's
> like trying to rename something by Shakespeare just for the fact that
> two kids named Romeo & Juliet kill themselves after falling in love :P
>
> Craig J. Ries
>
>

Thanks
Darragh
================================================
University of Queensland
Information Technology / Arts (History) student
[Email #1] s356179@student.uq.edu.au
[Email #2] squik@solutionone.com.au
[Web Site] http://hainsworth.ath.cx/~squik/
================================================



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*** EOOH ***
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From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
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We seem to be multiplying...



> woohoo! another UQ person on the list, hopefully we could get enough to
> make a drinks with Ray at the Pub (RedRoom) at our university, but somehow
> I doubt it. I guess i'll have to come up with a couple of hundred dollars
> to go to melbourne for that...
>
> Responding To:    =?iso-8859-1?q?R=20Robertson?= <taliesin_21@yahoo.com.au>
> Original Date:    Tue, 7 May 2002 12:24:53 +1000 (EST)
> >
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I'm a long(ish)-time lurker on the list and am just
> > breaking my silence now to ask something kind of OT
> > (typical *g*).
> >
> > Anyway, I seem to remember there were some
> > translators on this list.  I can't remember if they'd
> > translated anything of Ray's but for my purposes that
> > doesn't matter too much.  I'm doing a presentation on
> > translation and just wanted to ask them a few
> > questions.  If you are a translator and wouldn't mind
> > answering some questions on what you do please reply
> > to the following address as soon as possible:
> >
> > s007796@student.uq.edu.au
> >
> > Or if there aren't any translators on this list
> > anymore but someone knows the email address of one of
> > them could you please pass it on to me (as long as
> > they wouldn't mind of course).
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Rebecca.
> >
> >
> >
> > http://messenger.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Messenger
> > - A great way to communicate long-distance for FREE!
> >
>
>
>

Thanks
Darragh
================================================
University of Queensland
Information Technology / Arts (History) student
[Email #1] s356179@student.uq.edu.au
[Email #2] squik@solutionone.com.au
[Web Site] http://hainsworth.ath.cx/~squik/
================================================



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Subject: Ebay
Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 19:56:55 +1200
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if anyone's after the first 3 books, i found them damn cheap here
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1535404561



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From: "Some DuDe" <somedude1_2000@hotmail.com>
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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Tour Dates
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Mr Feist
I will definatly be in Sydney when you tour
I was wondering if it would be possible to buy a hark cover of magician and 
have you sign it
but im not sure where to purchase this book in hardcover
im guessing its very rare and sort after
but tohave it in harcover and signed would be excellent
could i maybe suggest a 2005 or something re-release of magician in 
hardcover?


_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com



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From: "Chris Bolan" <c.bolan@ecu.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Tour Dates
Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 16:30:42 +0800
Message-ID: <IKEEJFMMOLDKDNDLPHBGMEHCCCAA.c.bolan@ecu.edu.au>
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Chris Bolan" <c.bolan@ecu.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Tour Dates
Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 16:30:42 +0800
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Already being re-released later this year from Harper Collins :O)

-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Some DuDe
>Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2002 4:14 PM
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: Re: Tour Dates
>
>
>Mr Feist
>I will definatly be in Sydney when you tour
>I was wondering if it would be possible to buy a hark cover of magician and
>have you sign it
>but im not sure where to purchase this book in hardcover
>im guessing its very rare and sort after
>but tohave it in harcover and signed would be excellent
>could i maybe suggest a 2005 or something re-release of magician in
>hardcover?
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
>


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From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Tour Dates
Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 17:35:57 +0800
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*** EOOH ***
From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Tour Dates
Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 17:35:57 +0800
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

That is what the tour is all about, 20th Anniversary of Magician
re-release as well as Talon of the Silver Hawk

David

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu 
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Some DuDe
> Sent: Wednesday, 8 May 2002 4:14 PM
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Subject: Re: Tour Dates
> 
> 
> Mr Feist
> I will definatly be in Sydney when you tour
> I was wondering if it would be possible to buy a hark cover 
> of magician and 
> have you sign it
> but im not sure where to purchase this book in hardcover
> im guessing its very rare and sort after
> but tohave it in harcover and signed would be excellent
> could i maybe suggest a 2005 or something re-release of magician in 
> hardcover?
> 
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
> 



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From: "Some DuDe" <somedude1_2000@hotmail.com>
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Subject: RE: Tour Dates
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*** EOOH ***
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From: "Some DuDe" <somedude1_2000@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: RE: Tour Dates
Date: Wed, 08 May 2002 20:03:25 +1000
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Excellent
But i have the 20th Aniversay Magician(paperback)
Are you sure its gonna be in hardcover to?

>From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
>Subject: RE: Tour Dates
>Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 17:35:57 +0800
>
>That is what the tour is all about, 20th Anniversary of Magician
>re-release as well as Talon of the Silver Hawk
>
>David
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Some DuDe
> > Sent: Wednesday, 8 May 2002 4:14 PM
> > To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > Subject: Re: Tour Dates
> >
> >
> > Mr Feist
> > I will definatly be in Sydney when you tour
> > I was wondering if it would be possible to buy a hark cover
> > of magician and
> > have you sign it
> > but im not sure where to purchase this book in hardcover
> > im guessing its very rare and sort after
> > but tohave it in harcover and signed would be excellent
> > could i maybe suggest a 2005 or something re-release of magician in
> > hardcover?
> >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
> >
>




_________________________________________________________________
Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
http://www.hotmail.com



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Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 22:38:03 +1200
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From: Tim Nicholas <tim@nicholas.net.nz>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Tour Dates
Message-ID: <20020508103803.GA20400@nicholas.net.nz>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 22:38:03 +1200
From: Tim Nicholas <tim@nicholas.net.nz>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Tour Dates
User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.28i
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Actually, chances are you have the _10th_ Annaversary addition, the
20th hasn't come out yet... It comes out in August.

Tim

On Wed, May 08, 2002 at 08:03:25PM +1000, Some DuDe wrote:
> 
> Excellent
> But i have the 20th Aniversay Magician(paperback)
> Are you sure its gonna be in hardcover to?
> 
> >From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
> >Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> >To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> >Subject: RE: Tour Dates
> >Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 17:35:57 +0800
> >
> >That is what the tour is all about, 20th Anniversary of Magician
> >re-release as well as Talon of the Silver Hawk
> >
> >David
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> >> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Some DuDe
> >> Sent: Wednesday, 8 May 2002 4:14 PM
> >> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> >> Subject: Re: Tour Dates
> >>
> >>
> >> Mr Feist
> >> I will definatly be in Sydney when you tour
> >> I was wondering if it would be possible to buy a hark cover
> >> of magician and
> >> have you sign it
> >> but im not sure where to purchase this book in hardcover
> >> im guessing its very rare and sort after
> >> but tohave it in harcover and signed would be excellent
> >> could i maybe suggest a 2005 or something re-release of magician in
> >> hardcover?
> >>
> >>
> >> _________________________________________________________________
> >> Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
> >>
> >
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Join the world?s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
> http://www.hotmail.com
> 
> 

-- 
Tim Nicholas                          ||                      Cilix
Email: tim@nicholas.net.nz            ||       Dunedin, New Zealand
http://tim.nicholas.net.nz/           ||  Cell/SMS: +64 21 113 0399
"Grow up, Larry. You give me too much credit." - Linus Torvalds



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From: "Wouter Durnez" <arutha_of_krondor@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: OT: The Two Towers
Date: Wed, 08 May 2002 10:37:33 +0000
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From: "Wouter Durnez" <arutha_of_krondor@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: OT: The Two Towers
Date: Wed, 08 May 2002 10:37:33 +0000
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I know he's dead, I was referring to one of the comments on the 'two towers' 
:-)


>From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: Re: OT: The Two Towers
>Date: Tue, 07 May 2002 16:27:52 -0600
>
>Wouter Durnez wrote:
> >
> > I think Tolkien will be very frustrated when he reads this :-)
>
>Unless JRR is turning in his grave, I don't think he cares :)
>
>I rather doubt Christopher, JRR's son who is still alive, would care
>either.
>
>While the whole thing seems genuine, I find it highly insulting. It's
>like trying to rename something by Shakespeare just for the fact that
>two kids named Romeo & Juliet kill themselves after falling in love :P
>
>Craig J. Ries




_________________________________________________________________
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From: R Robertson <taliesin_21@yahoo.com.au>
Subject: Re: OT: Translators
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 21:29:50 +1000 (EST)
From: R Robertson <taliesin_21@yahoo.com.au>
Subject: Re: OT: Translators
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haha!  I doubt it too.  I think there are probably 
only about five or so UQ people on this list.

Not even enough to begin a dodgy Feistfans uni club
;-)



 --- A Irving <s355156@student.uq.edu.au> wrote: >
woohoo! another UQ person on the list, hopefully we
> could get enough to 
> make a drinks with Ray at the Pub (RedRoom) at our
> university, but somehow 
> I doubt it. I guess i'll have to come up with a
> couple of hundred dollars 
> to go to melbourne for that...


http://messenger.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Messenger
- A great way to communicate long-distance for FREE!



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Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 21:44:45 +1000 (GMT+1000)
From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: OT: Translators
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Speak up UQer's!

/me rasies hand tentatively.

> haha!  I doubt it too.  I think there are probably
> only about five or so UQ people on this list.
>
> Not even enough to begin a dodgy Feistfans uni club
> ;-)
>
>
>
>  --- A Irving <s355156@student.uq.edu.au> wrote: >
> woohoo! another UQ person on the list, hopefully we
> > could get enough to
> > make a drinks with Ray at the Pub (RedRoom) at our
> > university, but somehow
> > I doubt it. I guess i'll have to come up with a
> > couple of hundred dollars
> > to go to melbourne for that...
>
>
> http://messenger.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Messenger
> - A great way to communicate long-distance for FREE!
>
>

Thanks
Darragh
================================================
University of Queensland
Information Technology / Arts (History) student
[Email #1] s356179@student.uq.edu.au
[Email #2] squik@solutionone.com.au
[Web Site] http://hainsworth.ath.cx/~squik/
================================================



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 21:43:46 +1000 (GMT+1000)
From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Tour Dates
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Wow, before it is even released?! my god man!

>
> Excellent
> But i have the 20th Aniversay Magician(paperback)
> Are you sure its gonna be in hardcover to?
>
> >From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
> >Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> >To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> >Subject: RE: Tour Dates
> >Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 17:35:57 +0800
> >
> >That is what the tour is all about, 20th Anniversary of Magician
> >re-release as well as Talon of the Silver Hawk
> >
> >David
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > > [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Some DuDe
> > > Sent: Wednesday, 8 May 2002 4:14 PM
> > > To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > > Subject: Re: Tour Dates
> > >
> > >
> > > Mr Feist
> > > I will definatly be in Sydney when you tour
> > > I was wondering if it would be possible to buy a hark cover
> > > of magician and
> > > have you sign it
> > > but im not sure where to purchase this book in hardcover
> > > im guessing its very rare and sort after
> > > but tohave it in harcover and signed would be excellent
> > > could i maybe suggest a 2005 or something re-release of magician in
> > > hardcover?
> > >
> > >
> > > _________________________________________________________________
> > > Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
> > >
> >
>
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
> http://www.hotmail.com
>
>

Thanks
Darragh
================================================
University of Queensland
Information Technology / Arts (History) student
[Email #1] s356179@student.uq.edu.au
[Email #2] squik@solutionone.com.au
[Web Site] http://hainsworth.ath.cx/~squik/
================================================



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 07:57:17 -0700
Subject: Re: Tour Dates
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Wednesday, May 8, 2002, at 01:13 AM, Some DuDe wrote:

> Mr Feist
> I will definatly be in Sydney when you tour
> I was wondering if it would be possible to buy a hark cover of magician 
> and have you sign it
> but im not sure where to purchase this book in hardcover
> im guessing its very rare and sort after
> but tohave it in harcover and signed would be excellent
> could i maybe suggest a 2005 or something re-release of magician in 
> hardcover?
>

Actually, there will be a 20th Anniversary hardcover that should be sold 
at the signing.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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From: "Bruce Stedman" <bjs@bjs.org.uk>
To: <feistfans-l@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: OT: The Two Towers
Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 19:45:44 +0100
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Bruce Stedman" <bjs@bjs.org.uk>
To: <feistfans-l@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: OT: The Two Towers
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Strangely he [JRRT] did manage to predict "the great storm" in 1987, having
written about it some 20 or 30 years previous (Notion club papers)

People in the UK will remember when Sevenoaks in Kent became Oneoak.

BJS

-----Original Message-----
>From: Falconer [mailto:florin@mux.net]
>Sent: 07 May 2002 18:01
>To: feistfans-l@cornell.edu
>Subject: OT: The Two Towers
>
>
>http://www.petitiononline.com/twotower/petition.html
>
>(In regards to "The Two Towers" being an offensive title a la 9/11.)
>
>LOL! The funniest part is the people who "signed" the petition. This
>cracked me up--Some are dumb, some are clearly tongue in cheek.
>
>"i pray every day that mr jackson will see the light and pull the plug on
>this project. Mr Tolkien if that is his indead his real name does not seem
>to be a very christian person to be so cynically cashing in on this
>tragedy." -cathy clinton
>
>"I hope someone will punish Tolkien for this tasteless act. :-("
>-Thomas Veil
>
>"TOLKIEN WAS A PROFIT, HE PREDICTED WTC BOMBING 47 YEARS BEFORE THE FACT,
>AND THE THIRD MOVIE IS RETURN OF THE KING. JESUS IS COMING BACK YOU HAD
>BETTER RECOGNIZE" -Omid
>
>"I think they should rename New York too, because every time I hear "New
>York" it makes me think of that day and it makes me cry. That and the
>words "world," "trade," and "center" should be removed from our language
>as well." -Cal Lou Sjerk
>
>"We should be suggesting better alternative names. How about "Sauron
>Strikes Back" ?" -kapowaz
>--
>
>Michael Falconer
>


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To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
References: <E3ECB608-6293-11D6-B007-003065A8A644@bittersea.com>
Subject: Re: Tour Dates - 20th Anniversary
Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 15:19:16 -0400
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Joseph Benckert" <jbenckert@sc.rr.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Tour Dates - 20th Anniversary
Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 15:19:16 -0400
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

When will the 20th Anniversary hardcover be released and where?  Sorry if
this is common knowledge.

Joey Benckert

----- Original Message -----
From: "Raymond Feist" <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2002 10:57 AM
Subject: Re: Tour Dates


>
> On Wednesday, May 8, 2002, at 01:13 AM, Some DuDe wrote:
>
> > Mr Feist
> > I will definatly be in Sydney when you tour
> > I was wondering if it would be possible to buy a hark cover of magician
> > and have you sign it
> > but im not sure where to purchase this book in hardcover
> > im guessing its very rare and sort after
> > but tohave it in harcover and signed would be excellent
> > could i maybe suggest a 2005 or something re-release of magician in
> > hardcover?
> >
>
> Actually, there will be a 20th Anniversary hardcover that should be sold
> at the signing.
>
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
>
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
> stupidity.
>
>



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Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 15:56:12 EDT
Subject: Re: Tour Dates - 20th Anniversary
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*** EOOH ***
From: Smenick@aol.com
Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 15:56:12 EDT
Subject: Re: Tour Dates - 20th Anniversary
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

In a message dated 5/8/2002 2:31:02 PM Central Daylight Time, 
jbenckert@sc.rr.com writes:


> 
> When will the 20th Anniversary hardcover be released and where?  Sorry if
> this is common knowledge.
> 
> Joey Benckert
> 

I checked the amazon.uk site and it states that it should come out mid 
August.
I am unsure if this is to be a strictly UK thing as the past couple of books 
have been.
Ray will surely know.

-Sean

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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 08 May 2002 16:00:32 -0600
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: feistfans-l@cornell.edu
Subject: Murder in LaMut
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Any word from peeps that have ordered this from Amazon.co.uk on whether
the book is shipping yet?

Checking out their website (haven't ordered it yet myself) and they
still say it's not available, yet it was supposed to be out yesterday.

Craig J. Ries



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From: "Andy Holcombe" <andy_wan_kenobi@hotmail.com>
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>From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>

>Any word from peeps that have ordered this from Amazon.co.uk on whether
>the book is shipping yet?

Their still listing a delivery date for me as undetermined and they have not 
yet shipped the book.  I was wondering if anyone had seen it in stores yet.


Andy Holcombe
Andy_wan_Kenobi@hotmail.com

"To err is human, but to really foul things up requires a computer."
     -Farmers' Almanac 1978

"I don't give a damn for a man who can only spell a word one way."
     -Mark Twain

"History will be kind to me, for I intend to write it."
     -Winston Churchill

Andy Holcombe
Andy_wan_Kenobi@hotmail.com

"To err is human, but to really foul things up requires a computer."
     -Farmers' Almanac 1978

"I don't give a damn for a man who can only spell a word one way."
     -Mark Twain

"History will be kind to me, for I intend to write it."
     -Winston Churchill

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.



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From: "Paul S. Evans" <ferrari_f1@lineone.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Murder in LaMut
Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 23:41:32 +0100
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Paul S. Evans" <ferrari_f1@lineone.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Murder in LaMut
Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 23:41:32 +0100
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Andy Holcombe wrote:

>Their still listing a delivery date for me as undetermined
>and they have not yet shipped the book.  I was wondering if
>anyone had seen it in stores yet.

Nope.  Checked the two large Waterstones stores we have here in Birmingham
and still nothing.  Sigh.  Maybe tomorrow...

Kind Regards,
Paul Evans
Birmingham, UK



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Date: Wed, 08 May 2002 17:04:50 -0500
From: Bret Robideaux <bretr@alliances.org>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:0.9.4) Gecko/20011019 Netscape6/6.2
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Murder in LaMut
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


Craig J. Ries wrote:

> Any word from peeps that have ordered this from Amazon.co.uk on whether
> the book is shipping yet?
> 

Peeps?

No, if any of my Easter candy starts talking to me, especially about 
REF, I seek to have my medication adjusted.

OK Craig, I know you were on for our last discussion about using proper 
English (or our best approximation) on this list as a courtesy to our 
non-English speaking members. Avoiding slang is part of using proper 
English. I've seen enough of your posts to know that you know better ... 
minus one brownie point for you :)


Bret



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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Murder in LaMut
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 08 May 2002 17:03:48 -0600
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Murder in LaMut
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Bret Robideaux wrote:
> 
> I've seen enough of your posts to know that you know better ...
> minus one brownie point for you :)

Slang is fun tho, when used properly (or in place of infamous four
letter words :)

It's what I get for trying to do things in half a dozen programs at
once. Tearing through e-mail becomes the last thing you pay full
attention to at times :)

Craig J. Ries



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From: "Jonathan Homer" <jchomer@yahoo.co.uk>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
References: <DKENKCENMPIPFBKFMLNBMENIDEAA.ferrari_f1@lineone.net>
Subject: Re: Murder in LaMut
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Jonathan Homer" <jchomer@yahoo.co.uk>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Murder in LaMut
Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 06:11:23 +0100
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Just checked over at BOL (.co.uk) and they're listing the release date as
3/6/2002.


Jon


----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul S. Evans" <ferrari_f1@lineone.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2002 11:41 PM
Subject: RE: Murder in LaMut


: Andy Holcombe wrote:
:
: >Their still listing a delivery date for me as undetermined
: >and they have not yet shipped the book.  I was wondering if
: >anyone had seen it in stores yet.
:
: Nope.  Checked the two large Waterstones stores we have here in Birmingham
: and still nothing.  Sigh.  Maybe tomorrow...
:
: Kind Regards,
: Paul Evans
: Birmingham, UK
:


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From: Sick Boy <sickboy@protobofh.net>
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Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 22:07:57 -0700 (PDT)
From: Sick Boy <sickboy@protobofh.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Murder in LaMut
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On Wed, 8 May 2002, Bret Robideaux wrote:
> Craig J. Ries wrote:
> 
> > Any word from peeps that have ordered this from Amazon.co.uk on whether
> > the book is shipping yet?
> Peeps?
<snip>
> OK Craig, I know you were on for our last discussion about using proper 
> English (or our best approximation) on this list as a courtesy to our 
> non-English speaking members. Avoiding slang is part of using proper 
> English. I've seen enough of your posts to know that you know better ... 
> minus one brownie point for you :)

I wonder how many non-native English speakers know what a brownie point
is.  6th rule of the internet, a grammar or spelling flame will contain at
least one error of the same type the author is admonishing.

Shawn



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From: "Some DuDe" <somedude1_2000@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: RE: Tour Dates
Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 15:52:33 +1000
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*** EOOH ***
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From: "Some DuDe" <somedude1_2000@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: RE: Tour Dates
Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 15:52:33 +1000
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 09 May 2002 05:52:34.0183 (UTC) FILETIME=[B724A970:01C1F71D]
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my mistake i read it wrong
i have the 10th anniversary version
but i was wondering can you purchase a hard cover magician 20th anniversay 
book at the book signing?


>From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
>Subject: RE: Tour Dates
>Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 21:43:46 +1000 (GMT+1000)
>
>
>Wow, before it is even released?! my god man!
>
> >
> > Excellent
> > But i have the 20th Aniversay Magician(paperback)
> > Are you sure its gonna be in hardcover to?
> >
> > >From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
> > >Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > >To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> > >Subject: RE: Tour Dates
> > >Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 17:35:57 +0800
> > >
> > >That is what the tour is all about, 20th Anniversary of Magician
> > >re-release as well as Talon of the Silver Hawk
> > >
> > >David
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > > > [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Some DuDe
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, 8 May 2002 4:14 PM
> > > > To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > > > Subject: Re: Tour Dates
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Mr Feist
> > > > I will definatly be in Sydney when you tour
> > > > I was wondering if it would be possible to buy a hark cover
> > > > of magician and
> > > > have you sign it
> > > > but im not sure where to purchase this book in hardcover
> > > > im guessing its very rare and sort after
> > > > but tohave it in harcover and signed would be excellent
> > > > could i maybe suggest a 2005 or something re-release of magician in
> > > > hardcover?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _________________________________________________________________
> > > > Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: 
>http://mobile.msn.com
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
> > http://www.hotmail.com
> >
> >
>
>Thanks
>Darragh
>================================================
>University of Queensland
>Information Technology / Arts (History) student
>[Email #1] s356179@student.uq.edu.au
>[Email #2] squik@solutionone.com.au
>[Web Site] http://hainsworth.ath.cx/~squik/
>================================================
>




_________________________________________________________________
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From: "Natalie Henderson" <natz101@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: RE: OT: The Two Towers
Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 08:08:23 +0000
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From: "Natalie Henderson" <natz101@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: RE: OT: The Two Towers
Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 08:08:23 +0000
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Aaah yes, right near where I live. Although fortunately, not in 1987. Folks 
round these parts like to call it the hurricane of '87 **she says in a yokel 
accent** ;)

Sorry to carry on an OT conversation but I don't have much to say very often 
so I thought I'd join in!! :)

Natalie


>From: "Bruce Stedman" <bjs@bjs.org.uk>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: <feistfans-l@cornell.edu>
>Subject: RE: OT: The Two Towers
>Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 19:45:44 +0100
>
>Strangely he [JRRT] did manage to predict "the great storm" in 1987, having
>written about it some 20 or 30 years previous (Notion club papers)
>
>People in the UK will remember when Sevenoaks in Kent became Oneoak.
>
>BJS
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Falconer [mailto:florin@mux.net]
>Sent: 07 May 2002 18:01
>To: feistfans-l@cornell.edu
>Subject: OT: The Two Towers
>
>
>http://www.petitiononline.com/twotower/petition.html
>
>(In regards to "The Two Towers" being an offensive title a la 9/11.)
>
>LOL! The funniest part is the people who "signed" the petition. This
>cracked me up--Some are dumb, some are clearly tongue in cheek.
>
>"i pray every day that mr jackson will see the light and pull the plug on
>this project. Mr Tolkien if that is his indead his real name does not seem
>to be a very christian person to be so cynically cashing in on this
>tragedy." -cathy clinton
>
>"I hope someone will punish Tolkien for this tasteless act. :-("
>-Thomas Veil
>
>"TOLKIEN WAS A PROFIT, HE PREDICTED WTC BOMBING 47 YEARS BEFORE THE FACT,
>AND THE THIRD MOVIE IS RETURN OF THE KING. JESUS IS COMING BACK YOU HAD
>BETTER RECOGNIZE" -Omid
>
>"I think they should rename New York too, because every time I hear "New
>York" it makes me think of that day and it makes me cry. That and the
>words "world," "trade," and "center" should be removed from our language
>as well." -Cal Lou Sjerk
>
>"We should be suggesting better alternative names. How about "Sauron
>Strikes Back" ?" -kapowaz
>--
>
>Michael Falconer
>


_________________________________________________________________
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Subject: Re: Murder in LaMut
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hmmmm i wonder how many people payed attention a few weeks ago when someone
from Harper Collins told someone from the list, who in turn told all of us,
that the book is schelduled for June now, not May.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Andy Holcombe" <andy_wan_kenobi@hotmail.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Thursday, May 09, 2002 10:27 AM
Subject: Re: Murder in LaMut


> >From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
>
> >Any word from peeps that have ordered this from Amazon.co.uk on whether
> >the book is shipping yet?
>
> Their still listing a delivery date for me as undetermined and they have not
> yet shipped the book.  I was wondering if anyone had seen it in stores yet.
>
>
> Andy Holcombe
> Andy_wan_Kenobi@hotmail.com
>
> "To err is human, but to really foul things up requires a computer."
>      -Farmers' Almanac 1978
>
> "I don't give a damn for a man who can only spell a word one way."
>      -Mark Twain
>
> "History will be kind to me, for I intend to write it."
>      -Winston Churchill
>
> Andy Holcombe
> Andy_wan_Kenobi@hotmail.com
>
> "To err is human, but to really foul things up requires a computer."
>      -Farmers' Almanac 1978
>
> "I don't give a damn for a man who can only spell a word one way."
>      -Mark Twain
>
> "History will be kind to me, for I intend to write it."
>      -Winston Churchill
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.
>



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From: Michael Gibson <gibbyfish@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: OT: The Two Towers
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 13:54:10 +0100 (BST)
From: Michael Gibson <gibbyfish@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: OT: The Two Towers
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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> Aaah yes, right near where I live. Although fortunately, not in
> 1987. Folks 
> round these parts like to call it the hurricane of '87 **she says
> in a yokel 
> accent** ;)
> 
> Sorry to carry on an OT conversation but I don't have much to say
> very often 
> so I thought I'd join in!! :)
> 
> Natalie

Is that the one which Michael Fish famously got wrong?  It was a fair
old blooper for him.


 
> 
> >From: "Bruce Stedman" <bjs@bjs.org.uk>
> >Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> >To: <feistfans-l@cornell.edu>
> >Subject: RE: OT: The Two Towers
> >Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 19:45:44 +0100
> >
> >Strangely he [JRRT] did manage to predict "the great storm" in
> 1987, having
> >written about it some 20 or 30 years previous (Notion club papers)
> >
> >People in the UK will remember when Sevenoaks in Kent became
> Oneoak.
> >
> >BJS
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: Falconer [mailto:florin@mux.net]
> >Sent: 07 May 2002 18:01
> >To: feistfans-l@cornell.edu
> >Subject: OT: The Two Towers
> >
> >
> >http://www.petitiononline.com/twotower/petition.html
> >
> >(In regards to "The Two Towers" being an offensive title a la
> 9/11.)
> >
> >LOL! The funniest part is the people who "signed" the petition.
> This
> >cracked me up--Some are dumb, some are clearly tongue in cheek.
> >
> >"i pray every day that mr jackson will see the light and pull the
> plug on
> >this project. Mr Tolkien if that is his indead his real name does
> not seem
> >to be a very christian person to be so cynically cashing in on
> this
> >tragedy." -cathy clinton
> >
> >"I hope someone will punish Tolkien for this tasteless act. :-("
> >-Thomas Veil
> >
> >"TOLKIEN WAS A PROFIT, HE PREDICTED WTC BOMBING 47 YEARS BEFORE
> THE FACT,
> >AND THE THIRD MOVIE IS RETURN OF THE KING. JESUS IS COMING BACK
> YOU HAD
> >BETTER RECOGNIZE" -Omid
> >
> >"I think they should rename New York too, because every time I
> hear "New
> >York" it makes me think of that day and it makes me cry. That and
> the
> >words "world," "trade," and "center" should be removed from our
> language
> >as well." -Cal Lou Sjerk
> >
> >"We should be suggesting better alternative names. How about
> "Sauron
> >Strikes Back" ?" -kapowaz
> >--
> >
> >Michael Falconer
> >
> 
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
> http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.
> 
> 
> 
>  

====Mike,
Gibfish of Faringdonia

"I meant, have you ploughed the ocean waves at all?"
Colon gave him a cunning look.
"Ah, you can't catch me with that one, sir," he said.  "Everyone knows the horses would sink."

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
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>From: "Adam Thornton" <sandman_one87@hotmail.com>

>hmmmm i wonder how many people payed attention a few weeks ago when someone 
>from Harper Collins told someone from the list, who in turn told all of us, 
>that the book is schelduled for June now, not May.

No, we (or at least I) were paying attention, but were hoping that the 
information was incorrect.


Andy Holcombe
Andy_wan_Kenobi@hotmail.com

"To err is human, but to really foul things up requires a computer."
     -Farmers' Almanac 1978

"I don't give a damn for a man who can only spell a word one way."
     -Mark Twain

"History will be kind to me, for I intend to write it."
     -Winston Churchill

_________________________________________________________________
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Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 05:58:35 -0500
From: Bret Robideaux <bretr@alliances.org>
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*smile* and which rule predicts that at least one person will miss the 
form "... <intentional/obvious error> :)"?

Sick Boy wrote:

> On Wed, 8 May 2002, Bret Robideaux wrote:
> 
>>Craig J. Ries wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Any word from peeps that have ordered this from Amazon.co.uk on whether
>>>the book is shipping yet?
>>>
>>Peeps?
>>
> <snip>
> 
>>OK Craig, I know you were on for our last discussion about using proper 
>>English (or our best approximation) on this list as a courtesy to our 
>>non-English speaking members. Avoiding slang is part of using proper 
>>English. I've seen enough of your posts to know that you know better ... 
>>minus one brownie point for you :)
>>
> 
> I wonder how many non-native English speakers know what a brownie point
> is.  6th rule of the internet, a grammar or spelling flame will contain at
> least one error of the same type the author is admonishing.
> 
> Shawn
> 
> 



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From: "Paddyjack [ ]" <erykel@lycos.com>
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 go see this now :

http://www.petitiononline.com/papo/petition.html

:-)
Paddyjack

--

On Wed, 8 May 2002 19:45:44   
 Bruce Stedman wrote:
>Strangely he [JRRT] did manage to predict "the great storm" in 1987, having
>written about it some 20 or 30 years previous (Notion club papers)
>
>People in the UK will remember when Sevenoaks in Kent became Oneoak.
>
>BJS
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Falconer [mailto:florin@mux.net]
>Sent: 07 May 2002 18:01
>To: feistfans-l@cornell.edu
>Subject: OT: The Two Towers
>
>
>http://www.petitiononline.com/twotower/petition.html
>
>(In regards to "The Two Towers" being an offensive title a la 9/11.)
>
>LOL! The funniest part is the people who "signed" the petition. This
>cracked me up--Some are dumb, some are clearly tongue in cheek.
>
>"i pray every day that mr jackson will see the light and pull the plug on
>this project. Mr Tolkien if that is his indead his real name does not seem
>to be a very christian person to be so cynically cashing in on this
>tragedy." -cathy clinton
>
>"I hope someone will punish Tolkien for this tasteless act. :-("
>-Thomas Veil
>
>"TOLKIEN WAS A PROFIT, HE PREDICTED WTC BOMBING 47 YEARS BEFORE THE FACT,
>AND THE THIRD MOVIE IS RETURN OF THE KING. JESUS IS COMING BACK YOU HAD
>BETTER RECOGNIZE" -Omid
>
>"I think they should rename New York too, because every time I hear "New
>York" it makes me think of that day and it makes me cry. That and the
>words "world," "trade," and "center" should be removed from our language
>as well." -Cal Lou Sjerk
>
>"We should be suggesting better alternative names. How about "Sauron
>Strikes Back" ?" -kapowaz
>--
>
>Michael Falconer
>
>



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Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 16:20:36 +0200
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From: Caranorn Aglaredhel <caranorn@cmdnet.lu>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 16:20:36 +0200
From: Caranorn Aglaredhel <caranorn@cmdnet.lu>
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Organization: House Phoenix
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; fr-FR; rv:0.9.4) Gecko/20011130 Netscape6/6.2.1
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: OT: The Two Towers
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

LoL, promptly went to sign it.

Marc aka Caran...

Paddyjack [ ] wrote:

> go see this now :
>
>http://www.petitiononline.com/papo/petition.html
>
>:-)
>Paddyjack
>
>--
>
>On Wed, 8 May 2002 19:45:44   
> Bruce Stedman wrote:
>
>>Strangely he [JRRT] did manage to predict "the great storm" in 1987, having
>>written about it some 20 or 30 years previous (Notion club papers)
>>
>>People in the UK will remember when Sevenoaks in Kent became Oneoak.
>>
>>BJS
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Falconer [mailto:florin@mux.net]
>>Sent: 07 May 2002 18:01
>>To: feistfans-l@cornell.edu
>>Subject: OT: The Two Towers
>>
>>
>>http://www.petitiononline.com/twotower/petition.html
>>
>>(In regards to "The Two Towers" being an offensive title a la 9/11.)
>>
>>LOL! The funniest part is the people who "signed" the petition. This
>>cracked me up--Some are dumb, some are clearly tongue in cheek.
>>
>>"i pray every day that mr jackson will see the light and pull the plug on
>>this project. Mr Tolkien if that is his indead his real name does not seem
>>to be a very christian person to be so cynically cashing in on this
>>tragedy." -cathy clinton
>>
>>"I hope someone will punish Tolkien for this tasteless act. :-("
>>-Thomas Veil
>>
>>"TOLKIEN WAS A PROFIT, HE PREDICTED WTC BOMBING 47 YEARS BEFORE THE FACT,
>>AND THE THIRD MOVIE IS RETURN OF THE KING. JESUS IS COMING BACK YOU HAD
>>BETTER RECOGNIZE" -Omid
>>
>>"I think they should rename New York too, because every time I hear "New
>>York" it makes me think of that day and it makes me cry. That and the
>>words "world," "trade," and "center" should be removed from our language
>>as well." -Cal Lou Sjerk
>>
>>"We should be suggesting better alternative names. How about "Sauron
>>Strikes Back" ?" -kapowaz
>>--
>>
>>Michael Falconer
>>
>>
>
>



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To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
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Subject: Re: Murder in LaMut
Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 15:45:16 +0100
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Paul Whitby" <paul.whitby@oxoid.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Murder in LaMut
Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 15:45:16 +0100
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It was I, I received the information from Harper Collins and posted it here.
Hope is a wonderful thing, especially when waiting for a new REF book!
I assure you the info was correct, and directly from Harper Collins.
Even Joel wanted a copy of the email from Harper Collins as he wanted the
'official' line.
Joel, glad to have helped.

Heres waiting for June

Paul

----- Original Message -----
From: "Andy Holcombe" <andy_wan_kenobi@hotmail.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Thursday, May 09, 2002 2:20 PM
Subject: Re: Murder in LaMut


> >From: "Adam Thornton" <sandman_one87@hotmail.com>
>
> >hmmmm i wonder how many people payed attention a few weeks ago when someone
> >from Harper Collins told someone from the list, who in turn told all of us,
> >that the book is schelduled for June now, not May.
>
> No, we (or at least I) were paying attention, but were hoping that the
> information was incorrect.
>
>
> Andy Holcombe
> Andy_wan_Kenobi@hotmail.com
>
> "To err is human, but to really foul things up requires a computer."
>      -Farmers' Almanac 1978
>
> "I don't give a damn for a man who can only spell a word one way."
>      -Mark Twain
>
> "History will be kind to me, for I intend to write it."
>      -Winston Churchill
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Join the world's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
> http://www.hotmail.com
>



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From: "Andy Holcombe" <andy_wan_kenobi@hotmail.com>
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>From: "Paddyjack [ ]" <erykel@lycos.com>

>  go see this now :
>
>http://www.petitiononline.com/papo/petition.html

Back in the very early 80's, Hank Williams, Jr. recorded a song called "The 
Coalition Against Coalitions."

Andy Holcombe
Andy_wan_Kenobi@hotmail.com

"To err is human, but to really foul things up requires a computer."
     -Farmers' Almanac 1978

"I don't give a damn for a man who can only spell a word one way."
     -Mark Twain

"History will be kind to me, for I intend to write it."
     -Winston Churchill

_________________________________________________________________
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From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
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Adam Thornton wrote:
> 
> hmmmm i wonder how many people payed attention a few weeks ago when someone
> from Harper Collins told someone from the list, who in turn told all of us,
> that the book is schelduled for June now, not May.

Well, when you try and limit yourself to doing nothing more than
skimming your e-mail, things invariably get missed.

Plus I'm keeping my mind on a couple of other book releases, so
something is bound to get mixed up there :)

Craig J. Ries



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From: "Jason Martin" <res0b95g@verizon.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Its not that quiet is it?
Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 23:01:15 -0700
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Ok, one msg from the list over 2 days makes me wonder.  I checked and I'm
still subscribed.  My Last msg did not get through.  Hopefully this one
will.  Also Dan if you read this, is there something I should know about and
maybe I'm blocked from the list?

Thanks,

Jason

PS Spiderman Rocked!
"Too much knowlege never makes for simple decisions."
                           Ghanima- Children of Dune



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From: "Adam Thornton" <sandman_one87@hotmail.com>
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References: <001501c1f8b1$43919a00$3cf64004@vz.dsl.genuity.net>
Subject: Re: Its not that quiet is it?
Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 19:37:49 +1200
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*** EOOH ***
X-Originating-IP: [210.86.21.253]
From: "Adam Thornton" <sandman_one87@hotmail.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Its not that quiet is it?
Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 19:37:49 +1200
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i got your email, and yes it has been very quiet over the last two days.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jason Martin" <res0b95g@verizon.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Saturday, May 11, 2002 6:01 PM
Subject: Its not that quiet is it?


> Ok, one msg from the list over 2 days makes me wonder.  I checked and I'm
> still subscribed.  My Last msg did not get through.  Hopefully this one
> will.  Also Dan if you read this, is there something I should know about and
> maybe I'm blocked from the list?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jason
>
> PS Spiderman Rocked!
> "Too much knowlege never makes for simple decisions."
>                            Ghanima- Children of Dune
>
>



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From: Valentine ALEC Okwuike <mindanzer@yahoo.com>
Subject: Hmm....
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 03:28:16 -0700 (PDT)
From: Valentine ALEC Okwuike <mindanzer@yahoo.com>
Subject: Hmm....
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


Hey, I'm new here so how does it go? I've read Magician, Silverthorn,
Prince of the Blood and would love to read more.

Haven't  seen Spiderman yet.

 



---------------------------------
Do You Yahoo!?
LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience

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From: "Dave Curran" <dave@davecurran.co.uk>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Hmm....
Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 14:31:31 +0100
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Dave Curran" <dave@davecurran.co.uk>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Hmm....
Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 14:31:31 +0100
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

>  Hey, I'm new here so how does it go? I've read Magician, Silverthorn,
>Prince of the Blood and would love to read more.
>
>  Haven't  seen Spiderman yet.


Welcome to the list!

A good plan would be to have a look at the FAQ & info for "Newbies",
 which you  can find at...

http://www.psihawk.com/feist/feist-infonewbies.html

Another resource that you will probably find interesting is at...

http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm

Things have been pretty quiet on the list over the last few days, so you
have an opportunity to look over those links... be assured that it is not
always so!

Have had a look over the FAQs to ensure that you're not talking
on a banned subject, [yes there are a few].
You can feel free to ask any other questions, so long as you stick to the
works of REF or any other subject that Ray wants to talk about.
[Stick around you'll see what I mean.]

It occurs that most people read A Darkness at Sethanon after Silverthorn
and before Prince of the Blood. One of the things you'll find at the
second link is a  suggested reading order.

...Dave...

Success is the journey, not the destination.
Remember to enjoy today!

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From: "Dennis Groome" <nallix@cox.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
References: <20020511102816.14318.qmail@web20304.mail.yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Hmm....
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Dennis Groome" <nallix@cox.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Hmm....
Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 13:41:27 -0500
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

i would recommend getting A Darkness at Sethanon to finish off the Riftwar
Saga, then start with the Empire book (Daughter of the Empire is the first
one).  check www.crydee.com for the recommended reading order of the
Midkemia (and Kelewan) books.

-Dennis H. Groome V
ICQ: 11430261 AIM/Yahoo: AmoNympham
Microsoft Messenger: marcus_giovani@hotmail.com


----- Original Message -----
>From: Valentine ALEC Okwuike
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Sent: Saturday, May 11, 2002 5:28 AM
>Subject: Hmm....
>
>
>Hey, I'm new here so how does it go? I've read Magician, Silverthorn, Prince
>of the Blood and would love to read more.
>Haven't  seen Spiderman yet.
>
>
>
>
>
>Do You Yahoo!?
>LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience
>


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From: Joel Rosenberg <joelr@ellegon.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Murder in LaMut
Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 13:59:48 -0500
X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.3.2]
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*** EOOH ***
From: Joel Rosenberg <joelr@ellegon.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Murder in LaMut
Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 13:59:48 -0500
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Latest from Amazon.co.uk is that it'll be out on May 22; haven't heard 
anything other than the June 5 date from Harper.  (My guess is that it will 
ship on the 22nd, and that the official pubdate is June 5, but I've been 
wrong before, I think.)

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0002247208



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From: "Wouter Durnez" <arutha_of_krondor@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Kinda confused here
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Subject: Kinda confused here
Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 19:33:10 +0000
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Murder in LaMut is not in this 
order.http://www.crydee.com/feist/refindex.htm
Why?


>From: "Dennis Groome" <nallix@cox.net>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
>Subject: Re: Hmm....
>Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 13:41:27 -0500
>
>i would recommend getting A Darkness at Sethanon to finish off the Riftwar
>Saga, then start with the Empire book (Daughter of the Empire is the first
>one).  check www.crydee.com for the recommended reading order of the
>Midkemia (and Kelewan) books.
>
>-Dennis H. Groome V
>ICQ: 11430261 AIM/Yahoo: AmoNympham
>Microsoft Messenger: marcus_giovani@hotmail.com
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Valentine ALEC Okwuike
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Sent: Saturday, May 11, 2002 5:28 AM
>Subject: Hmm....
>
>
>Hey, I'm new here so how does it go? I've read Magician, Silverthorn, 
>Prince
>of the Blood and would love to read more.
>Haven't  seen Spiderman yet.
>
>
>
>
>
>Do You Yahoo!?
>LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience
>




_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx



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From: "Cameron Duncan" <cduncan@atinera.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Kinda confused here
Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 08:02:29 +1000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Cameron Duncan" <cduncan@atinera.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Kinda confused here
Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 08:02:29 +1000
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It's probably just a case of John having not gotten around to updating
the reading order to include it. 
It occurs directly after Honoured Enemy in the Published Order, but I'm
not sure about the Chronological Order...

Cameron

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Wouter Durnez
> Sent: Monday, May 13, 2002 5:33 AM
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Subject: Kinda confused here
> 
> 
> Murder in LaMut is not in this 
> order.http://www.crydee.com/feist/refindex.htm
> Why?
> 
> 
> >From: "Dennis Groome" <nallix@cox.net>
> >Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> >To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> >Subject: Re: Hmm....
> >Date: Sat, 11 May 2002 13:41:27 -0500
> >
> >i would recommend getting A Darkness at Sethanon to finish off 
> the Riftwar
> >Saga, then start with the Empire book (Daughter of the Empire is 
> the first
> >one).  check www.crydee.com for the recommended reading order of the
> >Midkemia (and Kelewan) books.
> >
> >-Dennis H. Groome V
> >ICQ: 11430261 AIM/Yahoo: AmoNympham
> >Microsoft Messenger: marcus_giovani@hotmail.com
> >
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: Valentine ALEC Okwuike
> >To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> >Sent: Saturday, May 11, 2002 5:28 AM
> >Subject: Hmm....
> >
> >
> >Hey, I'm new here so how does it go? I've read Magician, Silverthorn, 
> >Prince
> >of the Blood and would love to read more.
> >Haven't  seen Spiderman yet.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Do You Yahoo!?
> >LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience
> >
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
> http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
> 
> 



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Subject: Re: Kinda confused here
Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 20:21:50 -0400
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I think its either after TotG or HE in chrono order. If I had to guess I'd
say its after TotG. I think the publishing order is wrong on that site, he
has a few books before HE that I dont believe are out yet.

Rich

----- Original Message -----
From: "Cameron Duncan" <cduncan@atinera.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Sunday, May 12, 2002 6:02 PM
Subject: RE: Kinda confused here


> It's probably just a case of John having not gotten around to updating
> the reading order to include it.
> It occurs directly after Honoured Enemy in the Published Order, but I'm
> not sure about the Chronological Order...



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The new nintedo game cube, I have noticed, is going to have a game done by 
SIERRA about the hobbit-the book by J.R.Toliken-and I was just thinking how 
great of a game Magican- or any other of Rays books-would be.

_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com



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Subject: Re: Kinda confused here
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Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 09:19:41 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: Torstein Litlabø <litlaboe@online.no>
Subject: Re: Kinda confused here
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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More in the neighbourhood of HE. MiL is a "Legends of The Riftwar" novel. I 
assume that means that it takes place during the first Riftwar.
TotG is set after KtB, and KtB is approx. 10 years after the Riftwar.

With regards
Torstein Litlaboe



At 20:21 12.05.2002 -0400, you wrote:
>I think its either after TotG or HE in chrono order. If I had to guess I'd
>say its after TotG. I think the publishing order is wrong on that site, he
>has a few books before HE that I dont believe are out yet.
>
>Rich
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Cameron Duncan" <cduncan@atinera.com.au>
>To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
>Sent: Sunday, May 12, 2002 6:02 PM
>Subject: RE: Kinda confused here
>
>
> > It's probably just a case of John having not gotten around to updating
> > the reading order to include it.
> > It occurs directly after Honoured Enemy in the Published Order, but I'm
> > not sure about the Chronological Order...



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From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
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Subject: Re: games
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Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 17:28:15 +1000 (GMT+1000)
From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: games
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> The new nintedo game cube, I have noticed, is going to have a game done by
> SIERRA about the hobbit-the book by J.R.Toliken-and I was just thinking how
> great of a game Magican- or any other of Rays books-would be.

Yeah, I reckon "Krondor: The Betrayal" would make quite a good game


*g*

Thanks
Darragh
================================================
University of Queensland
Information Technology / Arts (History) student
[Email #1] s356179@student.uq.edu.au
[Email #2] squik@solutionone.com.au
[Web Site] http://hainsworth.ath.cx/~squik/
================================================



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 >
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And I think "Krondor: Tear of the Gods" would be just the book to use to 
make a sequel to that game!

<bg>

Al

At 17:28 13/05/2002 +1000, Darragh Murray wrote:
> > The new nintedo game cube, I have noticed, is going to have a game done by
> > SIERRA about the hobbit-the book by J.R.Toliken-and I was just thinking how
> > great of a game Magican- or any other of Rays books-would be.
>
>Yeah, I reckon "Krondor: The Betrayal" would make quite a good game
>
>
>*g*
>
>Thanks
>Darragh
>================================================
>University of Queensland
>Information Technology / Arts (History) student
>[Email #1] s356179@student.uq.edu.au
>[Email #2] squik@solutionone.com.au
>[Web Site] http://hainsworth.ath.cx/~squik/
>================================================



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From: "milamber_aka_pug" <milamber_aka_pug@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Absence
Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 09:22:33 +0100
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Hi all.

Due to forces well within my control I have been absent from
the list.

I know you have all worried about me <G>.

Reading P.o.t.B yet again (after having re-read the prior books of course <g>).
Hope you are all well!

Thanks for the reply John.

Am in the process of finishing my own novel based on the Riftwar Saga.
This is for my own amusement so please no law suits Ray <g>

Regards
Chris

"Politics is supposed to be the second oldest profession.
I have come to realize that it bears a very close resemblance to the first."
Ronald Reagan

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From: "Wouter Durnez" <arutha_of_krondor@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re: Kinda confused here
Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 10:38:01 +0000
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From: "Wouter Durnez" <arutha_of_krondor@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Kinda confused here
Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 10:38:01 +0000
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First Riftwar? I thought there was only one giant riftwar, unless if you 
include the Serpentwar. Rifts were used there too.


>From: Torstein Litlabø <litlaboe@online.no>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: Re: Kinda confused here
>Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 09:19:41 +0100
>
>More in the neighbourhood of HE. MiL is a "Legends of The Riftwar" novel. I
>assume that means that it takes place during the first Riftwar.
>TotG is set after KtB, and KtB is approx. 10 years after the Riftwar.
>
>With regards
>Torstein Litlaboe
>
>
>
>At 20:21 12.05.2002 -0400, you wrote:
>>I think its either after TotG or HE in chrono order. If I had to guess I'd
>>say its after TotG. I think the publishing order is wrong on that site, he
>>has a few books before HE that I dont believe are out yet.
>>
>>Rich
>>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "Cameron Duncan" <cduncan@atinera.com.au>
>>To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
>>Sent: Sunday, May 12, 2002 6:02 PM
>>Subject: RE: Kinda confused here
>>
>>
>> > It's probably just a case of John having not gotten around to updating
>> > the reading order to include it.
>> > It occurs directly after Honoured Enemy in the Published Order, but I'm
>> > not sure about the Chronological Order...
>




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If 'Milamber' would send me his novel, would that be considered a violention 
of your copyrights, Ray? It's just that I would like to see the ideas of 
others, concerning your world.
Wouter


>From: "milamber_aka_pug" <milamber_aka_pug@hotmail.com>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
>Subject: Absence
>Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 09:22:33 +0100
>
>Hi all.
>
>Due to forces well within my control I have been absent from
>the list.
>
>I know you have all worried about me <G>.
>
>Reading P.o.t.B yet again (after having re-read the prior books of course 
><g>).
>Hope you are all well!
>
>Thanks for the reply John.
>
>Am in the process of finishing my own novel based on the Riftwar Saga.
>This is for my own amusement so please no law suits Ray <g>
>
>Regards
>Chris
>
>"Politics is supposed to be the second oldest profession.
>I have come to realize that it bears a very close resemblance to the 
>first."
>Ronald Reagan




_________________________________________________________________
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From: "Wouter Durnez" <arutha_of_krondor@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Tolkien
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From: "Wouter Durnez" <arutha_of_krondor@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Tolkien
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I'm probably bringing up an old subject, once again, but have there been 
posts concerning the link between Middle-Earth and Midkemia? In my school, 
there's quite a bit of discussion about that.
thx
Wouter

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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: Absence
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At 11:39 13/05/2002, you wrote:
>If 'Milamber' would send me his novel, would that be considered a
>violention of your copyrights, Ray? It's just that I would like to
>see the ideas of others, concerning your world.
>Wouter

Yep, sure would.  And I'm surprised that he actually
mentioned it in the first place.  

It is a sure sign that neither one of you have been
paying attention, in that he admitted that he was writing
in Ray's world, and that you asked to see it.

tsk, tsk.

rip




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From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
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Subject: Re: Tolkien
Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 06:23:14 -0500
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Tolkien
Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 06:23:14 -0500
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Yes we've been over that.  Here is one of the  mails about that:

---------insert old message-----------
|At 2:23 PM -0700 10/20/98, Christian Wessel wrote:
|>On Tue, 20 Oct 1998, Raymond E. Feist wrote:
|>
|>> At 9:04 PM -0700 10/19/98, jajy wrote:
|>> >Ray, I was wondering what your opinion of the the work of Tolkien is.  You
|>> >do not list his as one of your favorite authors in the FAQ section.  I find
|>> >that your books have on occasion similarities that remind me of the other.
|>> >This may just be the fact that you both write high fantasy but I would like
|>> >to know if you think his work has affected your writing at all, if so how?
|>>
|>> I don't think Tolkien's been an influence, particularly.  I was older when
|>> I read him, already in college, and most of my influences were books I read
|>> as a boy.
|>
|>But you used many of his words like eledhel, eldar, etc. or are these of
|>yet another origin?
|
|
|Those words came to me via Midkemia, which being a D&D influenced
|game, used a few Tolkein terms.  The Sindar words for elves (eledhel,
|moredhel, Valheru, etc.) were a "tip of the hat" on my part to
|Tolkein, but that still doesn't make him an influence.
|
|Were I to do it again, I would have removed ALL "tips of the hats," or
|obvious influences of other authors and source, simply because over
|the years it's caused me more irritatin than anything else.
|
|Best, R.E.F.
|
-------end old message---------

----- Original Message -----
From: "Wouter Durnez" <arutha_of_krondor@hotmail.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Monday, May 13, 2002 5:41 AM
Subject: Tolkien


> I'm probably bringing up an old subject, once again, but have there been
> posts concerning the link between Middle-Earth and Midkemia? In my school,
> there's quite a bit of discussion about that.
> thx
> Wouter
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com
>



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 14:04:58 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: Torstein Litlabø <litlaboe@online.no>
Subject: Re: Kinda confused here
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Hi,

There are actually five (5) Riftwars altogether

I suggest you read the corresponding chapter in the 
FAQ  http://www.psihawk.com/feist/feist-faq.html#ML-RWar

With regards
Torstein Litlaboe


At 10:38 13.05.2002 +0000, you wrote:
>First Riftwar? I thought there was only one giant riftwar, unless if you 
>include the Serpentwar. Rifts were used there too.
>
>
>>From: Torstein Litlabø <litlaboe@online.no>
>>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>>Subject: Re: Kinda confused here
>>Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 09:19:41 +0100
>>
>>More in the neighbourhood of HE. MiL is a "Legends of The Riftwar" novel. I
>>assume that means that it takes place during the first Riftwar.
>>TotG is set after KtB, and KtB is approx. 10 years after the Riftwar.
>>
>>With regards
>>Torstein Litlaboe
>>
>>
>>
>>At 20:21 12.05.2002 -0400, you wrote:
>>>I think its either after TotG or HE in chrono order. If I had to guess I'd
>>>say its after TotG. I think the publishing order is wrong on that site, he
>>>has a few books before HE that I dont believe are out yet.
>>>
>>>Rich
>>>
>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>From: "Cameron Duncan" <cduncan@atinera.com.au>
>>>To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
>>>Sent: Sunday, May 12, 2002 6:02 PM
>>>Subject: RE: Kinda confused here
>>>
>>>
>>> > It's probably just a case of John having not gotten around to updating
>>> > the reading order to include it.
>>> > It occurs directly after Honoured Enemy in the Published Order, but I'm
>>> > not sure about the Chronological Order...
>
>
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.
>



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I was just wondering if Ray got any inspiration in the naming of Lands End 
from the name of the northern most tip of England, which is also called 
Lands End.

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From: "Donal K. Fellows" <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Lands End
Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 13:59:59 +0100
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"Mr Elbion" <elbion3@hotmail.com>
> I was just wondering if Ray got any inspiration in the naming of Lands End 
> from the name of the northern most tip of England, which is also called 
> Lands End.

FYI, the northernmost bit of England is called Berwick-on-Tweed[*],
and the southernmost bit (of the mainland; the Isles of Scilly are
further south still) is the Lizard peninsular.  Lands End is just the
westernmost (again, except for the Scillies...)

Donal.
[* The most northerly spot I can find using multimap.com is called
   Marshall Meadows Bay which is about 2.5 miles north of the middle
   of Berwick, and is a camping site beside the sea as far as I can
   see.  Anywhere north of there and south of the border with Scotland
   is not named on any map I can easily locate. ]
-- 
Donal K. Fellows, Department of Computer Science, University of Manchester, UK.
(work) fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk     Tel: +44-161-275-6137  (preferred email addr.)
(home) donal@ugglan.demon.co.uk  Tel: +44-1274-401017   Mobile: +44-7957-298955
http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~fellowsd/  (Don't quote my .sig; I've seen it before!)



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*** EOOH ***
From: "Mark Tonkin" <shadowfire@chariot.net.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Lands End
Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 22:41:11 +0930
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Mr Elbion" <elbion3@hotmail.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Monday, May 13, 2002 9:56 PM
Subject: Lands End


>
> I was just wondering if Ray got any inspiration in the naming of Lands End
> from the name of the northern most tip of England, which is also called
> Lands End.
>

Huh?  Lands End is at the western most tip of Cornwall.  The location where
the first cable was laid across the Atlantic.  I know this because I've been
researching the area, as it is near St Levan where I've traced my family
tree back to around 1560 AD.  Check a map of the District of Penzance and
you should see it.

- MARK

========================================
Dilbert's rules of order #2:
"I love deadlines.  I especially like the wooshing
sound they make as they go flying by."



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 14:14:00 +0100 (BST)
From: Michael Gibson <gibbyfish@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Lands End
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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 --- Mr Elbion <elbion3@hotmail.com> wrote: > 
> I was just wondering if Ray got any inspiration in the naming of
> Lands End 
> from the name of the northern most tip of England, which is also
> called 
> Lands End.

I think you mean the one in Cornwall, which is on the south coast
(I've never been there, so for all I know Cornwall may not even
exist... but that's unlikely ;)



====Mike,
Gibfish of Faringdonia

"I meant, have you ploughed the ocean waves at all?"
Colon gave him a cunning look.
"Ah, you can't catch me with that one, sir," he said.  "Everyone knows the horses would sink."

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From: "Dennis Groome" <nallix@cox.net>
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Subject: Re: Tolkien
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From: "Dennis Groome" <nallix@cox.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Tolkien
Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 07:56:08 -0500
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what link?  both are fantasy lands?  both have elves, dwarves and magic?
other than being part of the same genre, Midkemia and Middle-Earth don't
have much, if anything, in common.  please excuse the following rant:  I
hate it when people always try to make any fantasy novel sound like Tolkein.
just because someone uses magic or has a race with pointy ears doesn't make
it anything Tolkein's work.

-Dennis H. Groome V
ICQ: 11430261 AIM/Yahoo: AmoNympham
Microsoft Messenger: marcus_giovani@hotmail.com


----- Original Message -----
From: "Wouter Durnez" <arutha_of_krondor@hotmail.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Monday, May 13, 2002 5:41 AM
Subject: Tolkien


> I'm probably bringing up an old subject, once again, but have there been
> posts concerning the link between Middle-Earth and Midkemia? In my school,
> there's quite a bit of discussion about that.
> thx
> Wouter
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com
>
>



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From: "Greg Bulloch" <somedude1_2000@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re: games
Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 23:28:11 +1000
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From: "Greg Bulloch" <somedude1_2000@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re: games
Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 23:28:11 +1000
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correct me if im wrong but isnt Betrayal At Krondor a game?
and my favourite rpg... Return to Krondor
a nice new 3d game would b nice
but as Ray has said
hes willing for them to make a game if they pay him money



>From: Al Burrell <al.burl@tiscali.co.uk>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: Re: games
>Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 09:16:05 +0100
>
>And I think "Krondor: Tear of the Gods" would be just the book to use to
>make a sequel to that game!
>
><bg>
>
>Al
>
>At 17:28 13/05/2002 +1000, Darragh Murray wrote:
>> > The new nintedo game cube, I have noticed, is going to have a game done 
>>by
>> > SIERRA about the hobbit-the book by J.R.Toliken-and I was just thinking 
>>how
>> > great of a game Magican- or any other of Rays books-would be.
>>
>>Yeah, I reckon "Krondor: The Betrayal" would make quite a good game
>>
>>
>>*g*
>>
>>Thanks
>>Darragh
>>================================================
>>University of Queensland
>>Information Technology / Arts (History) student
>>[Email #1] s356179@student.uq.edu.au
>>[Email #2] squik@solutionone.com.au
>>[Web Site] http://hainsworth.ath.cx/~squik/
>>================================================
>




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Ray,
I was just wondering
I plan to hopefully go to your tour to both Sydney and Brisbane if you end 
up going to both and i was wondering how good a chance there is of you 
signing my books(hard covers of talon and new magician) and would you be 
able to sign it:

Greg,
Never Attribute To Malice What Can Satisfactorily Be Explained Away As 
Stupidity.

Raymond E. Feist
<signature here>

or do you just sign your signature?
either way a signed hardcover magician is all i want
cant wait for september!
bye all

_________________________________________________________________
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Ray,
I was just wondering
I plan to hopefully go to your tour to both Sydney and Brisbane if you end 
up going to both and i was wondering how good a chance there is of you 
signing my books(hard covers of talon and new magician) and would you be 
able to sign it:

Greg,
Never Attribute To Malice What Can Satisfactorily Be Explained Away As 
Stupidity.

Raymond E. Feist
<signature here>

or do you just sign your signature?
either way a signed hardcover magician is all i want
cant wait for september!
bye all

_________________________________________________________________
Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
http://www.hotmail.com



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There are actually quite a few other similarities between both worlds. 
The ones I noticed most are of course names based on the Sindarin language.

Marc aka Caran...

P.S.: Caranorn Aglaredhel being a rather clumsy attempt at an elven name 
(actually would have to check, might not be so clumsy after all, but at 
the time I mixex Sindarin, Quenya and some other Tolkien languages). By 
the way, look up Aglaranna's name some day in a Sindarin dictionary, 
that name is absolutely true;-)

Dennis Groome wrote:

>what link?  both are fantasy lands?  both have elves, dwarves and magic?
>other than being part of the same genre, Midkemia and Middle-Earth don't
>have much, if anything, in common.  please excuse the following rant:  I
>hate it when people always try to make any fantasy novel sound like Tolkein.
>just because someone uses magic or has a race with pointy ears doesn't make
>it anything Tolkein's work.
>
>-Dennis H. Groome V
>



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Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 14:41:41 +0100
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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: Al Burrell <al.burl@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: Re: games
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Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 14:41:41 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: Al Burrell <al.burl@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: Re: games
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Yes, those games already exist. Hence the grins and the big grins.

It was a joke. Some people - no sense of humour.

Al

At 23:28 13/05/2002 +1000, Greg Bulloch wrote:
>correct me if im wrong but isnt Betrayal At Krondor a game?
>and my favourite rpg... Return to Krondor
>a nice new 3d game would b nice
>but as Ray has said
>hes willing for them to make a game if they pay him money
>
>
>
>>From: Al Burrell <al.burl@tiscali.co.uk>
>>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>>Subject: Re: games
>>Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 09:16:05 +0100
>>
>>And I think "Krondor: Tear of the Gods" would be just the book to use to
>>make a sequel to that game!
>>
>><bg>
>>
>>Al
>>
>>At 17:28 13/05/2002 +1000, Darragh Murray wrote:
>>> > The new nintedo game cube, I have noticed, is going to have a game 
>>> done by
>>> > SIERRA about the hobbit-the book by J.R.Toliken-and I was just 
>>> thinking how
>>> > great of a game Magican- or any other of Rays books-would be.
>>>
>>>Yeah, I reckon "Krondor: The Betrayal" would make quite a good game
>>>
>>>
>>>*g*
>>>
>>>Thanks
>>>Darragh
>>>================================================
>>>University of Queensland
>>>Information Technology / Arts (History) student
>>>[Email #1] s356179@student.uq.edu.au
>>>[Email #2] squik@solutionone.com.au
>>>[Web Site] http://hainsworth.ath.cx/~squik/
>>>================================================
>
>
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
>http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx



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From: Michael Gibson <gibbyfish@yahoo.com>
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Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 14:42:13 +0100 (BST)
From: Michael Gibson <gibbyfish@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: games
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Irony.

 --- Greg Bulloch <somedude1_2000@hotmail.com> wrote:
> correct me if im wrong but isnt Betrayal At Krondor a game?
> and my favourite rpg... Return to Krondor
> a nice new 3d game would b nice
> but as Ray has said
> hes willing for them to make a game if they pay him money
> 
> 
> 
> >From: Al Burrell <al.burl@tiscali.co.uk>
> >Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> >To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> >Subject: Re: games
> >Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 09:16:05 +0100
> >
> >And I think "Krondor: Tear of the Gods" would be just the book to
> use to
> >make a sequel to that game!
> >
> ><bg>
> >
> >Al
> >
> >At 17:28 13/05/2002 +1000, Darragh Murray wrote:
> >> > The new nintedo game cube, I have noticed, is going to have a
> game done 
> >>by
> >> > SIERRA about the hobbit-the book by J.R.Toliken-and I was just
> thinking 
> >>how
> >> > great of a game Magican- or any other of Rays books-would be.
> >>
> >>Yeah, I reckon "Krondor: The Betrayal" would make quite a good
> game
> >>
> >>
> >>*g*
> >>
> >>Thanks
> >>Darragh
> >>===============================================> >>University of Queensland
> >>Information Technology / Arts (History) student
> >>[Email #1] s356179@student.uq.edu.au
> >>[Email #2] squik@solutionone.com.au
> >>[Web Site] http://hainsworth.ath.cx/~squik/
> >>===============================================> >
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
> http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
>  

====Mike,
Gibfish of Faringdonia

"I meant, have you ploughed the ocean waves at all?"
Colon gave him a cunning look.
"Ah, you can't catch me with that one, sir," he said.  "Everyone knows the horses would sink."

__________________________________________________
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Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 07:50:19 -0700 (PDT)
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From: Dun Xiahou <xiahoudun13@yahoo.com>
Subject: Scotch quesiton for Ray
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 07:50:19 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dun Xiahou <xiahoudun13@yahoo.com>
Subject: Scotch quesiton for Ray
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I know you've been peppered in the past with these
types of questions, but of all people who enjoy
Scotch, I respect your opinion the most.

My friend, Zhilong (yes, we joke about the irony all
the time), wanted to get me a bottle of single malt
for my birthday, but 1) he isn't loaded with cash, and
2) doesn't know anything about Scotch.  He asked me
for a list of possible brands, etc. that I might like.
 The sad thing is, I couldn't really respon acurately,
as I haven't really paid much attention to the names
of the Scotch's I've had, I only know the style and
flavor of Scotch that I like.

I like my Scotch fairly smoky, but I don't like it to
taste like I'm drinking a half-burned wooden log.  It
should feel warm on the way down, but not really burn.
 I would say that if it is a little sweet that is also
positive, but only mildly so; I'm not a huge fan of
things like Drambouie for example (too sweet).  Sorry
I can't be much more specific than that, but other
than those taste qualifications, I would say that he
is definitely limited to under $100 for a fifth.

I know also that there are a lot of other pervayors of
the fine spirit known as Scotch who regularly post to
this list, and I would very much like to hear their
suggestions as well.

- Xiahou Dun

__________________________________________________
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Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 08:12:00 -0700
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Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 08:12:00 -0700
Subject: Re: Absence
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
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On Monday, May 13, 2002, at 03:39 AM, Wouter Durnez wrote:

> If 'Milamber' would send me his novel, would that be considered a 
> violention of your copyrights, Ray? It's just that I would like to see 
> the ideas of others, concerning your world.
> Wouter
>

Ideas can't be copyrighted.  In other words, if you wanted to publish 
something that said,"I think Feist should write a novel in which 
everyone turns green, because a race of giant turnip people invade 
Midkemia, and while Pug and Tomas are unable to help anyone, George the 
Gardener at Crydee finds a way to save the day," that would not be in 
infringement.

Now, if you wrote the story of George the Gardener at Crydee and the 
Giant Turnip Invasion of Midkemia, then that would be an infringement.


Understand the difference?

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 08:14:04 -0700
Subject: Re: Tolkien
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Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 08:14:04 -0700
Subject: Re: Tolkien
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On Monday, May 13, 2002, at 03:41 AM, Wouter Durnez wrote:

> I'm probably bringing up an old subject, once again, but have there 
> been posts concerning the link between Middle-Earth and Midkemia? In my 
> school, there's quite a bit of discussion about that.
> thx
> Wouter
>

Actually, there's been almost no discussion of links between my work and 
Tolkein's as long as I've been on the list.  Mostly because there are 
few links.  For an essay on this, read the one I wrote for Mediations on 
Middle Earth, edited by Karen Haber.

The only reason there are any links are twofold: 1) a lot of 
"Tolkeinesque" stuff got in because it was in the game, the world of 
which I used to create the novels. 2) I used a few Sindar words about 
elves (mostly their names) as a "tip of the hat" to the grand old 
gentleman.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Subject: Re: Scotch quesiton for Ray
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From: "Donal K. Fellows" <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Scotch quesiton for Ray
Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 16:15:59 +0100
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Dun Xiahou <xiahoudun13@yahoo.com>
> I like my Scotch fairly smoky, but I don't like it to taste like I'm
> drinking a half-burned wooden log.

Firstly, definitely not Islay!  I'm not sure how smokey the Speyside
malts are (I prefer the smokier ones from the far west) but there's
probably quite a bit of variation there so maybe one of the smokier
Speysides would do.  Or maybe Highland Park (from the Orkney islands)
or Glenmorangie (from Tain, which is north of Inverness.)

> It should feel warm on the way down, but not really burn.

Drink it more slowly!  <g>  A good drink should be too good to be
drunk rapidly.

> I would say that if it is a little sweet that is also positive, but
> only mildly so; I'm not a huge fan of things like Drambouie for
> example (too sweet).

I'm no expert there.

> Sorry I can't be much more specific than that, but other than those
> taste qualifications, I would say that he is definitely limited to
> under $100 for a fifth.

I don't know what your local prices are like, but I'm able to get
rather good Whisky's for a lot less than that.  The problem comes when
you're not based in the general area... 

You could also consider Irish Whiskey, which is smoother and sweeter
on average than Scotch; I've enjoyed both Bushmills and Jameson's...

Donal.
-- 
Donal K. Fellows, Department of Computer Science, University of Manchester, UK.
(work) fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk     Tel: +44-161-275-6137  (preferred email addr.)
(home) donal@ugglan.demon.co.uk  Tel: +44-1274-401017   Mobile: +44-7957-298955
http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~fellowsd/  (Don't quote my .sig; I've seen it before!)



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Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 08:18:30 -0700
Subject: Re: Lands End
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 08:18:30 -0700
Subject: Re: Lands End
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On Monday, May 13, 2002, at 05:26 AM, Mr Elbion wrote:

>
> I was just wondering if Ray got any inspiration in the naming of Lands 
> End from the name of the northern most tip of England, which is also 
> called Lands End.
>

Actually, there are quite a number of places around the world called 
Lands End.  In fact, England has two, with the other being down beyond 
Penzantz, which got sailed past a heck of a lot more by sailors leaving 
Portsmouth and Bristol.

Best, R.E.F.


----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 08:21:57 -0700
Subject: Re: Signing And Tour
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 08:21:57 -0700
Subject: Re: Signing And Tour
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On Monday, May 13, 2002, at 06:34 AM, Greg Bulloch wrote:

>
> Ray,
> I was just wondering
> I plan to hopefully go to your tour to both Sydney and Brisbane if you 
> end up going to both and i was wondering how good a chance there is of 
> you signing my books(hard covers of talon and new magician) and would 
> you be able to sign it:
>

I never do inscriptions to order.  Actually, that's considered a bit 
rude to ask.  It's sort of like asking someone to send you a greeting 
card and telling them what sentiment to put inside.

If the crowd isn't too large, then I will personalize it with a name, 
i.e. "To Greg, Best Wishes, etc." but if there are three hundred people 
waiting . . .  you get the picture.

As for what books, you can bring a bunch.  The rule-of-thumb is sign 3, 
go to the end of the line, and I'll keep signing until everyone's done, 
unless I have an appointment somewhere else at which point I'll stop 
when it's time to leave.  I'll miss a half-hour of sleep to sign them 
all, but I won't miss a plane! <g>

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 08:27:21 -0700
Subject: Re: Scotch quesiton for Ray
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 08:27:21 -0700
Subject: Re: Scotch quesiton for Ray
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On Monday, May 13, 2002, at 07:50 AM, Dun Xiahou wrote:

> I know you've been peppered in the past with these
> types of questions, but of all people who enjoy
> Scotch, I respect your opinion the most.
>
> My friend, Zhilong (yes, we joke about the irony all
> the time), wanted to get me a bottle of single malt
> for my birthday, but 1) he isn't loaded with cash, and
> 2) doesn't know anything about Scotch.  He asked me
> for a list of possible brands, etc. that I might like.
>  The sad thing is, I couldn't really respon acurately,
> as I haven't really paid much attention to the names
> of the Scotch's I've had, I only know the style and
> flavor of Scotch that I like.
>
> I like my Scotch fairly smoky, but I don't like it to
> taste like I'm drinking a half-burned wooden log.

A-yup.  Some of those peaty monsters can make your eyes bleed.


> It
> should feel warm on the way down, but not really burn.
>  I would say that if it is a little sweet that is also
> positive, but only mildly so; I'm not a huge fan of
> things like Drambouie for example (too sweet).  Sorry
> I can't be much more specific than that, but other
> than those taste qualifications, I would say that he
> is definitely limited to under $100 for a fifth.

Try Laphoraig, ten year.  Very smoky without killing you, hints of 
leather and tobacco, and a not-too-rough finish.  Not as smooth and 
light as Glenfidditch.  If they have a more aged version, you might try 
that.

Oban if you want something a bit lighter, but still smoky.

Both will cost considerably less than $100, unless you go for the more 
aged versions.

>
> I know also that there are a lot of other pervayors of
> the fine spirit known as Scotch who regularly post to
> this list, and I would very much like to hear their
> suggestions as well.
>
Actually, no pervayors I know of, but a lot of consumers.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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From: Dun Xiahou <xiahoudun13@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Scotch quesiton for Ray
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 12:35:44 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dun Xiahou <xiahoudun13@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Scotch quesiton for Ray
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Thank you very very much for the suggestions.  I will
tell my friend them.  This works out rather nicely
because not only are there a number of brands you've
recommended, allowing for surprise in that respect,
but I have not tried any of these brands, so the end
result I think will be a nice surprise no matter which
he picks.

As for my use of the word "pervayor," you got me
there.  English is not my first language, but I have
tried very hard to extend my vocabulary. 
Unfortunately, I sometimes don't use the right words
in the right situations.

I'm looking forward to finding out which he chooses,
and even more so tasting it.

- Xiahou Dun

--- Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com> wrote:
> 
> On Monday, May 13, 2002, at 07:50 AM, Dun Xiahou
> wrote:
> 
> > I know you've been peppered in the past with these
> > types of questions, but of all people who enjoy
> > Scotch, I respect your opinion the most.
> >
> > My friend, Zhilong (yes, we joke about the irony
> all
> > the time), wanted to get me a bottle of single
> malt
> > for my birthday, but 1) he isn't loaded with cash,
> and
> > 2) doesn't know anything about Scotch.  He asked
> me
> > for a list of possible brands, etc. that I might
> like.
> >  The sad thing is, I couldn't really respon
> acurately,
> > as I haven't really paid much attention to the
> names
> > of the Scotch's I've had, I only know the style
> and
> > flavor of Scotch that I like.
> >
> > I like my Scotch fairly smoky, but I don't like it
> to
> > taste like I'm drinking a half-burned wooden log.
> 
> A-yup.  Some of those peaty monsters can make your
> eyes bleed.
> 
> 
> > It
> > should feel warm on the way down, but not really
> burn.
> >  I would say that if it is a little sweet that is
> also
> > positive, but only mildly so; I'm not a huge fan
> of
> > things like Drambouie for example (too sweet). 
> Sorry
> > I can't be much more specific than that, but other
> > than those taste qualifications, I would say that
> he
> > is definitely limited to under $100 for a fifth.
> 
> Try Laphoraig, ten year.  Very smoky without killing
> you, hints of 
> leather and tobacco, and a not-too-rough finish. 
> Not as smooth and 
> light as Glenfidditch.  If they have a more aged
> version, you might try 
> that.
> 
> Oban if you want something a bit lighter, but still
> smoky.
> 
> Both will cost considerably less than $100, unless
> you go for the more 
> aged versions.
> 
> >
> > I know also that there are a lot of other
> pervayors of
> > the fine spirit known as Scotch who regularly post
> to
> > this list, and I would very much like to hear
> their
> > suggestions as well.
> >
> Actually, no pervayors I know of, but a lot of
> consumers.
> 
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
> 
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be
> explained away by 
> stupidity.
> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience
http://launch.yahoo.com



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From: John <john@crydee.com>
Subject: Re: Kinda confused here
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 00:14:13 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: John <john@crydee.com>
Subject: Re: Kinda confused here
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Wouter Durnez <arutha_of_krondor@hotmail.com> writes
>Murder in LaMut is not in this 
>order.http://www.crydee.com/feist/refindex.htm
>Why?
>

I haven't got round to it <G>

I must finish reading it and then I will put it in the list

-- 
John

john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.

Raymond E Feist Ring
http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm



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Subject: Re: Kinda confused here
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 10:18:16 +1000 (GMT+1000)
From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Kinda confused here
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Its bizaree, doesn't the faq answer this?

> First Riftwar? I thought there was only one giant riftwar, unless if you
> include the Serpentwar. Rifts were used there too.
>
>
> >From: Torstein Litlabø <litlaboe@online.no>
> >Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> >To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> >Subject: Re: Kinda confused here
> >Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 09:19:41 +0100
> >
> >More in the neighbourhood of HE. MiL is a "Legends of The Riftwar" novel. I
> >assume that means that it takes place during the first Riftwar.
> >TotG is set after KtB, and KtB is approx. 10 years after the Riftwar.
> >
> >With regards
> >Torstein Litlaboe
> >
> >
> >
> >At 20:21 12.05.2002 -0400, you wrote:
> >>I think its either after TotG or HE in chrono order. If I had to guess I'd
> >>say its after TotG. I think the publishing order is wrong on that site, he
> >>has a few books before HE that I dont believe are out yet.
> >>
> >>Rich
> >>
> >>----- Original Message -----
> >>From: "Cameron Duncan" <cduncan@atinera.com.au>
> >>To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> >>Sent: Sunday, May 12, 2002 6:02 PM
> >>Subject: RE: Kinda confused here
> >>
> >>
> >> > It's probably just a case of John having not gotten around to updating
> >> > the reading order to include it.
> >> > It occurs directly after Honoured Enemy in the Published Order, but I'm
> >> > not sure about the Chronological Order...
> >
>
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.
>
>

Thanks
Darragh
================================================
University of Queensland
Information Technology / Arts (History) student
[Email #1] s356179@student.uq.edu.au
[Email #2] squik@solutionone.com.au
[Web Site] http://hainsworth.ath.cx/~squik/
================================================



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Hi All, 

I have just recently signed up for the fan list so I am not too sure
if this question has been asked before.

In Magician, Chapter 22 (Training), it mentions that Pug found his
true name the one that can never be said aloud, which means 'standing
between two worlds'.

Am I reading this the wrong way and it is actually Milamber that I am
talking about? or have we been told what the name is (through Pug's
view point). If we haven't been told what it is will we be told in a
later book? (I guess that's a question that only Ray can answer!) *G*

Best regards, 

Michael Hough

_____________________________________________________________
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Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 13:56:11 +1000 (GMT+1000)
From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Pug's real name
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> Hi All,
>
> I have just recently signed up for the fan list so I am not too sure if this question has been asked before.
>
> In Magician, Chapter 22 (Training), it mentions that Pug found his true name the one that can never be said aloud, which means 'standing between two worlds'.
>
> Am I reading this the wrong way and it is actually Milamber that I am talking about? or have we been told what the name is (through Pug's view point). If we haven't been told what it is will we be told in a later book? (I guess that's a question that only Ray can answer!) *G*
>
> Best regards,
>
> Michael Hough

I think you might have misintepreted this.

IMOHO - The Tsurani assembly gave Pug the name "Milamber" symobolising
his new discpline in the greater path. It a symbol of his mastering
of the greater path discipline. (I.e. Pug was the label given to a
specific man with only lesser path training). It can be said aloud, as
many tsurani magicians call him by that.

I hope you understand this. My explanation was not the greatest.

Thanks
Darragh
================================================
University of Queensland
Information Technology / Arts (History) student
[Email #1] s356179@student.uq.edu.au
[Email #2] squik@solutionone.com.au
[Web Site] http://hainsworth.ath.cx/~squik/
================================================



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From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Absence
Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 13:31:55 +0800
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From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Absence
Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 13:31:55 +0800
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Ray, is this some sort of clue as to the next series after conclave?
<grin>

Should we expect to be seeing Giant Turnips vanquished by George the
Gardner as Pug and Tomas are too busy chucking laps on Ryath or Rhuagh
or Ryanna or whoever the current dragon may be in the future :)

David

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu 
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Raymond Feist
> Sent: Monday, 13 May 2002 11:12 PM
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Subject: Re: Absence
> 
> 
> 
> On Monday, May 13, 2002, at 03:39 AM, Wouter Durnez wrote:
> 
> > If 'Milamber' would send me his novel, would that be considered a 
> > violention of your copyrights, Ray? It's just that I would 
> like to see 
> > the ideas of others, concerning your world.
> > Wouter
> >
> 
> Ideas can't be copyrighted.  In other words, if you wanted to publish 
> something that said,"I think Feist should write a novel in which 
> everyone turns green, because a race of giant turnip people invade 
> Midkemia, and while Pug and Tomas are unable to help anyone, 
> George the 
> Gardener at Crydee finds a way to save the day," that would not be in 
> infringement.
> 
> Now, if you wrote the story of George the Gardener at Crydee and the 
> Giant Turnip Invasion of Midkemia, then that would be an infringement.
> 
> 
> Understand the difference?
> 
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
> 
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be 
> explained away by 
> stupidity.
> 



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 09:07:47 +0200
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: Kenneth Jones <killkenny@thos.co.za>
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And Durbin and Natal any relation to Durban and Natal in South Africa?

At 08:18 AM 5/13/02 -0700, you wrote:

>On Monday, May 13, 2002, at 05:26 AM, Mr Elbion wrote:
>
>>
>>I was just wondering if Ray got any inspiration in the naming of Lands 
>>End from the name of the northern most tip of England, which is also 
>>called Lands End.
>
>Actually, there are quite a number of places around the world called Lands 
>End.  In fact, England has two, with the other being down beyond Penzantz, 
>which got sailed past a heck of a lot more by sailors leaving Portsmouth 
>and Bristol.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>
>
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
>stupidity.



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From: "Milamber Pug" <milamber_aka_pug@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Absence
Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 09:06:05 +0000
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From: "Milamber Pug" <milamber_aka_pug@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Absence
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As I said in my post rip :-

"Am in the process of finishing my own novel based on the Riftwar Saga.
This is for *my own amusement* so please no law suits Ray <g>"

(*'s inserted)

I never mentioned publishing or any form of distribution.

I like to write is all and I especially like to write
ideas I have on Rays work.

As for paying attention rip, follow your own advice <g>

But again this is for my own amusement only!
Hope that clears things up <G>

Regards
Chris

"Religion is a candle inside a multicolored lantern.
Everyone looks through a particular color, but the candle is always there."
Mohammed Neguib



>From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: Re: Absence
>Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 12:01:47 +0100
>
>At 11:39 13/05/2002, you wrote:
> >If 'Milamber' would send me his novel, would that be considered a 
>violention of your copyrights, Ray? It's just that I would like to see the 
>ideas of others, concerning your world.
> >Wouter
>
>Yep, sure would.  And I'm surprised that he actually
>mentioned it in the first place.
>
>It is a sure sign that neither one of you have been
>paying attention, in that he admitted that he was writing
>in Ray's world, and that you asked to see it.
>
>tsk, tsk.
>
>rip
>
>


_________________________________________________________________
Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
http://www.hotmail.com



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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: Absence
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Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 10:35:27 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: Absence
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

At 10:06 14/05/2002, you wrote:

>As I said in my post rip :-
>
>"Am in the process of finishing my own novel based on the Riftwar Saga.
>This is for *my own amusement* so please no law suits Ray <g>"

Yup.  I saw that.  For your own amusement.  It still
could be a violation of Ray's copyrights, and Ray
could still sue you.  The way around that is to not
even bring it up in the first place.

And if you have been paying attention, you would
have known that.

>I never mentioned publishing or any form of distribution.

It's not the publication* that violates the rules, it's
the having written it in the first place (but, cf Ray's
post about where the line is.  Reading your post, it 
sounds like you are using the events, locations and
characters from Midkemia, which puts you in the wrong).

>As for paying attention rip, follow your own advice <g>

Oh I do, I do.  Which is why I noted immediately
that you weren't. ;->

rip
*publication is defined as "someone sees it".  You send
your PC to the shop to have a video card replaced, while
it is there the tech starts rummaging around in your hard
drive and finds the file, opens it and reads the first
couple of paragraphs...boom, it's been published.



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From: "Milamber Pug" <milamber_aka_pug@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Absence
Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 10:13:47 +0000
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From: "Milamber Pug" <milamber_aka_pug@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Absence
Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 10:13:47 +0000
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 May 2002 10:13:47.0433 (UTC) FILETIME=[09319190:01C1FB30]
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I think we will have to beg to differ!
As I understand it I am legally entitled to write anything
I like on any subject I like so long (in this case) that it is for my eyes 
only!
No one will see what I write except me and if any case was brought against 
me it would be a simple case of destroying what I had written.
A I am able to reproduce copy written music for my own pleasure as well as 
other media sources without fear of prosecution surely I am able to write 
novels based on someone elses work for my own pleasure (note: FOR MY OWN 
PLEASURE).

As for there being a copy on my computer I use a typewriter (remember 
those?<G>)

If this is not the case please feel free to email me OFF LIST with any 
supporting legal evidence. I am always willing to be proven incorrect. It 
keeps me grounded <G>.

Regards
Chris

"It is better to know some of the questions than all of the answers."
James Thurber


>From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
>At 10:06 14/05/2002, you wrote:
>
> >As I said in my post rip :-
> >
> >"Am in the process of finishing my own novel based on the Riftwar Saga.
> >This is for *my own amusement* so please no law suits Ray <g>"
>
>Yup.  I saw that.  For your own amusement.  It still
>could be a violation of Ray's copyrights, and Ray
>could still sue you.  The way around that is to not
>even bring it up in the first place.
>
>And if you have been paying attention, you would
>have known that.
>
> >I never mentioned publishing or any form of distribution.
>
>It's not the publication* that violates the rules, it's
>the having written it in the first place (but, cf Ray's
>post about where the line is.  Reading your post, it
>sounds like you are using the events, locations and
>characters from Midkemia, which puts you in the wrong).
>
> >As for paying attention rip, follow your own advice <g>
>
>Oh I do, I do.  Which is why I noted immediately
>that you weren't. ;->
>
>rip
>*publication is defined as "someone sees it".  You send
>your PC to the shop to have a video card replaced, while
>it is there the tech starts rummaging around in your hard
>drive and finds the file, opens it and reads the first
>couple of paragraphs...boom, it's been published.
>


_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com



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From: Al Burrell <al.burl@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Absence
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 11:32:17 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: Al Burrell <al.burl@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Absence
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

The question I have to ask is, if it is for your own pleasure, why did you 
even bother to mention it in the first place? By doing this, you have now 
brought other people into the equation.

Al

At 10:13 14/05/2002 +0000, Milamber Pug wrote:
>I think we will have to beg to differ!
>As I understand it I am legally entitled to write anything
>I like on any subject I like so long (in this case) that it is for my eyes 
>only!
>No one will see what I write except me and if any case was brought against 
>me it would be a simple case of destroying what I had written.
>A I am able to reproduce copy written music for my own pleasure as well as 
>other media sources without fear of prosecution surely I am able to write 
>novels based on someone elses work for my own pleasure (note: FOR MY OWN 
>PLEASURE).
>
>As for there being a copy on my computer I use a typewriter (remember 
>those?<G>)
>
>If this is not the case please feel free to email me OFF LIST with any 
>supporting legal evidence. I am always willing to be proven incorrect. It 
>keeps me grounded <G>.
>
>Regards
>Chris
>
>"It is better to know some of the questions than all of the answers."
>James Thurber
>
>
>>From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
>>At 10:06 14/05/2002, you wrote:
>>
>> >As I said in my post rip :-
>> >
>> >"Am in the process of finishing my own novel based on the Riftwar Saga.
>> >This is for *my own amusement* so please no law suits Ray <g>"
>>
>>Yup.  I saw that.  For your own amusement.  It still
>>could be a violation of Ray's copyrights, and Ray
>>could still sue you.  The way around that is to not
>>even bring it up in the first place.
>>
>>And if you have been paying attention, you would
>>have known that.
>>
>> >I never mentioned publishing or any form of distribution.
>>
>>It's not the publication* that violates the rules, it's
>>the having written it in the first place (but, cf Ray's
>>post about where the line is.  Reading your post, it
>>sounds like you are using the events, locations and
>>characters from Midkemia, which puts you in the wrong).
>>
>> >As for paying attention rip, follow your own advice <g>
>>
>>Oh I do, I do.  Which is why I noted immediately
>>that you weren't. ;->
>>
>>rip
>>*publication is defined as "someone sees it".  You send
>>your PC to the shop to have a video card replaced, while
>>it is there the tech starts rummaging around in your hard
>>drive and finds the file, opens it and reads the first
>>couple of paragraphs...boom, it's been published.
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com



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From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
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Subject: Re: Absence
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Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 20:40:39 +1000 (GMT+1000)
From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Absence
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

> I think we will have to beg to differ!
> As I understand it I am legally entitled to write anything

In this world, no

> No one will see what I write except me and if any case was brought against
> me it would be a simple case of destroying what I had written.

Forgetting that you just alerted the entire mailing list of the existence
of this document.

> A I am able to reproduce copy written music for my own pleasure as well as
> other media sources without fear of prosecution surely I am able to write
> novels based on someone elses work for my own pleasure (note: FOR MY OWN
> PLEASURE).

Thanks
Darragh
================================================
University of Queensland
Information Technology / Arts (History) student
[Email #1] s356179@student.uq.edu.au
[Email #2] squik@solutionone.com.au
[Web Site] http://hainsworth.ath.cx/~squik/
================================================



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From: "Greg Bulloch" <somedude1_2000@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Signing And Tour
Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 21:53:00 +1000
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From: "Greg Bulloch" <somedude1_2000@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Signing And Tour
Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 21:53:00 +1000
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thanks Mr Feist
sorry i didnt intend to be rude
i just like the little saying of yours
ill have to bring alone my honoured enemy hardback
ive been searching everywhere for hardbacks but as they only come out when 
the book is launched i know its abit hard
ill have to buy magician and talon in hardback
is there any way to get some more hardbacks?
theres always second hand books stored but we've already disgusted that
so anyone on the list have any ideas how i might come accross a few more 
hardbacks of Mr Feists work?


>From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: Re: Signing And Tour
>Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 08:21:57 -0700
>
>
>On Monday, May 13, 2002, at 06:34 AM, Greg Bulloch wrote:
>
>>
>>Ray,
>>I was just wondering
>>I plan to hopefully go to your tour to both Sydney and Brisbane if you
>>end up going to both and i was wondering how good a chance there is of
>>you signing my books(hard covers of talon and new magician) and would
>>you be able to sign it:
>>
>
>I never do inscriptions to order.  Actually, that's considered a bit
>rude to ask.  It's sort of like asking someone to send you a greeting
>card and telling them what sentiment to put inside.
>
>If the crowd isn't too large, then I will personalize it with a name,
>i.e. "To Greg, Best Wishes, etc." but if there are three hundred people
>waiting . . .  you get the picture.
>
>As for what books, you can bring a bunch.  The rule-of-thumb is sign 3,
>go to the end of the line, and I'll keep signing until everyone's done,
>unless I have an appointment somewhere else at which point I'll stop
>when it's time to leave.  I'll miss a half-hour of sleep to sign them
>all, but I won't miss a plane! <g>
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
>stupidity.
>




_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com



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From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
References: <F1944if75ZF9MTTrdPd0000effa@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Absence
Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 07:16:42 -0500
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From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Absence
Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 07:16:42 -0500
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> I think we will have to beg to differ!
> As I understand it I am legally entitled to write anything
> I like on any subject I like so long (in this case) that it is for my eyes
> only!

Unfortunately as many people are beginning to point out: You have
made it such that it is no longer your eyes only.  And as soon as
you told Ray you were doing this, he gained the right to sue you for
copyright infringment because you publisized what you were doing
with his material.

> No one will see what I write except me and if any case was brought against
> me it would be a simple case of destroying what I had written.

You'd have to do it before the lawsuit was filed, because if you
destroy it during a case it becomes Obstruction of Justice in the US
and that is a federal offence and punishable by jailtime.

> A I am able to reproduce copy written music for my own pleasure as well as
> other media sources without fear of prosecution surely I am able to write
> novels based on someone elses work for my own pleasure (note: FOR MY
> OWN PLEASURE).

Music and literature share a lot of things, that particular
copyright bylaw is not one of them.  More to the point the reason
you can reproduce music for your own use is because they music
companies aren't willing to make an effort to stop you, and so allow
it in an exemption notice on most musics rather than wasting their
time chasing small fries.  Roughly translated the music companies
ease up on their copyright when determining reproduction for
personal use.  Author's don't have to do that.

> As for there being a copy on my computer I use a typewriter (remember
> those?<G>)

I do, which is worse for you in some cases because it is a hard copy
rather than a data copy.

> If this is not the case please feel free to email me OFF LIST with any
> supporting legal evidence. I am always willing to be proven incorrect. It
> keeps me grounded <G>.

I'll leave this to Rip and Ref to point you out the details.

> Regards
> Chris




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From: "Rob Kolech" <feistfan@rogers.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Signing And Tour
Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 09:51:05 -0400
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From: "Rob Kolech" <feistfan@rogers.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Signing And Tour
Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 09:51:05 -0400
X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at fep01-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com from [24.103.241.106] using ID <feistfan@rogers.com> at Tue, 14 May 2002 09:51:10 -0400
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The internet is the key for used hardbacks.  I bought most of my hardbacks
from places like e-bay, just wantch out they can get pricy with auctions and
there might be taxes and shipping.  Abebooks (http://www.abebooks.com/) is
also awsome and its not an auction sites.  You can usually find good prices
on used hardback.  Good luck

Rob Kolech

-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Greg Bulloch
>Sent: May 14, 2002 7:53 AM
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: Re: Signing And Tour
>
>
>thanks Mr Feist
>sorry i didnt intend to be rude
>i just like the little saying of yours
>ill have to bring alone my honoured enemy hardback
>ive been searching everywhere for hardbacks but as they only come out when
>the book is launched i know its abit hard
>ill have to buy magician and talon in hardback
>is there any way to get some more hardbacks?
>theres always second hand books stored but we've already disgusted that
>so anyone on the list have any ideas how i might come accross a few more
>hardbacks of Mr Feists work?
>
>
>>From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
>>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>>Subject: Re: Signing And Tour
>>Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 08:21:57 -0700
>>
>>
>>On Monday, May 13, 2002, at 06:34 AM, Greg Bulloch wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>Ray,
>>>I was just wondering
>>>I plan to hopefully go to your tour to both Sydney and Brisbane if you
>>>end up going to both and i was wondering how good a chance there is of
>>>you signing my books(hard covers of talon and new magician) and would
>>>you be able to sign it:
>>>
>>
>>I never do inscriptions to order.  Actually, that's considered a bit
>>rude to ask.  It's sort of like asking someone to send you a greeting
>>card and telling them what sentiment to put inside.
>>
>>If the crowd isn't too large, then I will personalize it with a name,
>>i.e. "To Greg, Best Wishes, etc." but if there are three hundred people
>>waiting . . .  you get the picture.
>>
>>As for what books, you can bring a bunch.  The rule-of-thumb is sign 3,
>>go to the end of the line, and I'll keep signing until everyone's done,
>>unless I have an appointment somewhere else at which point I'll stop
>>when it's time to leave.  I'll miss a half-hour of sleep to sign them
>>all, but I won't miss a plane! <g>
>>
>>Best, R.E.F.
>>----
>>
>>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
>>stupidity.
>>
>
>
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com

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Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 08:00:44 -0700
Subject: Re: Lands End
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Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 08:00:44 -0700
Subject: Re: Lands End
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Tuesday, May 14, 2002, at 12:07 AM, Kenneth Jones wrote:

> And Durbin and Natal any relation to Durban and Natal in South Africa?
>

No.  They are on different planets.

Now, if you mean are the names related, yes.  Steve Barrett created 
Natal province and he was a big SA history buff.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.
>
>



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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: Sean Fister <sean@hope.kih.net>
Subject: Re: Absence
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 13:04:41 -0400
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: Sean Fister <sean@hope.kih.net>
Subject: Re: Absence
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

At 06:13 AM 5/14/02, you wrote:

Perhaps you should read the following url:

http://www.templetons.com/brad/copymyths.html .  It has been referenced on 
the list before.  It explains several misconceptions about copyright law.

Sean Fister

>I think we will have to beg to differ!
>As I understand it I am legally entitled to write anything
>I like on any subject I like so long (in this case) that it is for my eyes 
>only!
>No one will see what I write except me and if any case was brought against 
>me it would be a simple case of destroying what I had written.
>A I am able to reproduce copy written music for my own pleasure as well as 
>other media sources without fear of prosecution surely I am able to write 
>novels based on someone elses work for my own pleasure (note: FOR MY OWN 
>PLEASURE).
>
>As for there being a copy on my computer I use a typewriter (remember 
>those?<G>)
>
>If this is not the case please feel free to email me OFF LIST with any 
>supporting legal evidence. I am always willing to be proven incorrect. It 
>keeps me grounded <G>.
>
>Regards
>Chris
>
>"It is better to know some of the questions than all of the answers."
>James Thurber
>
>
>>From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
>>At 10:06 14/05/2002, you wrote:
>>
>> >As I said in my post rip :-
>> >
>> >"Am in the process of finishing my own novel based on the Riftwar Saga.
>> >This is for *my own amusement* so please no law suits Ray <g>"
>>
>>Yup.  I saw that.  For your own amusement.  It still
>>could be a violation of Ray's copyrights, and Ray
>>could still sue you.  The way around that is to not
>>even bring it up in the first place.
>>
>>And if you have been paying attention, you would
>>have known that.
>>
>> >I never mentioned publishing or any form of distribution.
>>
>>It's not the publication* that violates the rules, it's
>>the having written it in the first place (but, cf Ray's
>>post about where the line is.  Reading your post, it
>>sounds like you are using the events, locations and
>>characters from Midkemia, which puts you in the wrong).
>>
>> >As for paying attention rip, follow your own advice <g>
>>
>>Oh I do, I do.  Which is why I noted immediately
>>that you weren't. ;->
>>
>>rip
>>*publication is defined as "someone sees it".  You send
>>your PC to the shop to have a video card replaced, while
>>it is there the tech starts rummaging around in your hard
>>drive and finds the file, opens it and reads the first
>>couple of paragraphs...boom, it's been published.
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com



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From: "Wouter Durnez" <arutha_of_krondor@hotmail.com>
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From: "Wouter Durnez" <arutha_of_krondor@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Tolkien
Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 17:08:03 +0000
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I see, thanks. The 'tip of the hat' is cool, I think I'll use that in my 
arguments with my friends :) I'd say the link is rather obvious, like in the 
names, as you said (Eldar, Eledhel, ...) Tolkien's work also has something 
that tends to remind me of the Bible (for fantasy-freaks that is :)), and 
you're work is much more fluent.
Wouter



>From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: Re: Tolkien
>Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 08:14:04 -0700
>
>
>On Monday, May 13, 2002, at 03:41 AM, Wouter Durnez wrote:
>
>>I'm probably bringing up an old subject, once again, but have there
>>been posts concerning the link between Middle-Earth and Midkemia? In my
>>school, there's quite a bit of discussion about that.
>>thx
>>Wouter
>>
>
>Actually, there's been almost no discussion of links between my work and
>Tolkein's as long as I've been on the list.  Mostly because there are
>few links.  For an essay on this, read the one I wrote for Mediations on
>Middle Earth, edited by Karen Haber.
>
>The only reason there are any links are twofold: 1) a lot of
>"Tolkeinesque" stuff got in because it was in the game, the world of
>which I used to create the novels. 2) I used a few Sindar words about
>elves (mostly their names) as a "tip of the hat" to the grand old
>gentleman.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
>stupidity.
>




_________________________________________________________________
Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
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Yup, totally, thx Ray :)


>From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: Re: Absence
>Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 08:12:00 -0700
>
>
>On Monday, May 13, 2002, at 03:39 AM, Wouter Durnez wrote:
>
>>If 'Milamber' would send me his novel, would that be considered a
>>violention of your copyrights, Ray? It's just that I would like to see
>>the ideas of others, concerning your world.
>>Wouter
>>
>
>Ideas can't be copyrighted.  In other words, if you wanted to publish
>something that said,"I think Feist should write a novel in which
>everyone turns green, because a race of giant turnip people invade
>Midkemia, and while Pug and Tomas are unable to help anyone, George the
>Gardener at Crydee finds a way to save the day," that would not be in
>infringement.
>
>Now, if you wrote the story of George the Gardener at Crydee and the
>Giant Turnip Invasion of Midkemia, then that would be an infringement.
>
>
>Understand the difference?
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
>stupidity.
>




_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.



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Hate to be a nag... but I was wondering if someone would be kind enough to
tell me Mr Feist's Perth Tour Date... Never been to a book signing before
but theres always a first.

=D Thanks



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Subject: Re: Perth Tour Dates/Locations
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On Tuesday, May 14, 2002, at 10:12 AM, C.P wrote:

> Hate to be a nag... but I was wondering if someone would be kind enough 
> to
> tell me Mr Feist's Perth Tour Date... Never been to a book signing 
> before
> but theres always a first.
>
> =D Thanks
>
>
>
>

I will post details when I have them.

Best, R.E.F.


----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Subject: News Tour Dates
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Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 10:47:21 -0700
Subject: News Tour Dates
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
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Looks like this is the newest plan:

September 6-7 Amsterdam (which means probably one or two other cities in 
Holland those dates)

September 9-14 UK (where I don't know.  With only five days, I suspect 
it'll be the usual big stops, London, Manchester, Birmingham, etc.)

September 17th Perth

September 18th Adelaide

September 19th  Melbourne

September 21st -23rd Sydney

September 25th-26 Brisbane

September 28th Auckland


More changes if I get them.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
From: "Julie Wootten" <wootten@xtra.co.nz>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: News Tour Dates
Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 07:19:07 +1200
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> September 28th Auckland

WOOHOO!  Only an 8 hr drive.  Still, beggars can't be choosers.

Julie (happier than anyone has a right to be at 7am).




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Subject: Re: Tolkien
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From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Tolkien
Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 15:52:45 -0500
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> I see, thanks. The 'tip of the hat' is cool, I think I'll use that in my
> arguments with my friends :) I'd say the link is rather obvious, like in the
> names, as you said (Eldar, Eledhel, ...)

The link is tenous.  It doesn't make for a good basis for any
argument.

> Tolkien's work also has something that tends to remind me of the Bible
> (for fantasy-freaks that is :)), and you're work is much more fluent.

That is because Tolkien's work is a Mythological style, as are many
other works, including the Bible and to some extent Beowulf and
numerous other Epics and Sagas.  It isn't a style Ray uses because
there is a marked difference in the readers sought, and the
foundation of those works.

As for fluency, while Ray is certainly more than competent with the
written word, Tolkien was a MASTER of the langauge.  The difference
you are seeing is in style and presentation, not in skill.

Apples and Oranges.  Both Fruit...definitely not the same.

-James



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Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 11:30:21 +1200 (NZST)
From: Richard Stevenson <richard.stevenson@team.xtra.co.nz>
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On Wed, 15 May 2002, Julie Wootten wrote:

> > September 28th Auckland

One *very* pleasant surprise to find in my mailbox when I get to work :)

> WOOHOO!  Only an 8 hr drive.  Still, beggars can't be choosers.

<grin> I've already been in touch with friends as far away as Dunedin
about the tour :)  I hope NZ doesn't get taken off the itinerary later...
Personally, I'll be more than happy to make the drive (and I already drive
~1200km a week getting to and from work... daft geek, me).

/me wonders just how many books he can get signed at once ;)

Cheers

Richard


-- 
Richard Stevenson, Systems Specialist, Xtra Limited
Phone: +64 9 355 5231   Mobile: +64 25 290 3101   Pager: +64 26 100 155



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pfff, if only you had more fans in France :(

Anyway, Longon's not so far from Paris by train :)

Syl


> Looks like this is the newest plan:
> 
> September 6-7 Amsterdam (which means probably one or two other cities in 
> Holland those dates)
> 
> September 9-14 UK (where I don't know. With only five days, I suspect 
> it'll be the usual big stops, London, Manchester, Birmingham, etc.)
> 
> September 17th Perth
> 
> September 18th Adelaide
> 
> September 19th Melbourne
> 
> September 21st -23rd Sydney
> 
> September 25th-26 Brisbane
> 
> September 28th Auckland
> 
> 
> More changes if I get them.
> 
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
> 
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
> stupidity.
> 
> 


Fenyx Kell.



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Subject: Re: Signing And Tour
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Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 10:20:06 +1000 (GMT+1000)
From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Signing And Tour
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> thanks Mr Feist
> sorry i didnt intend to be rude
> i just like the little saying of yours
> ill have to bring alone my honoured enemy hardback
> ive been searching everywhere for hardbacks but as they only come out when
> the book is launched i know its abit hard
> ill have to buy magician and talon in hardback
> is there any way to get some more hardbacks?
> theres always second hand books stored but we've already disgusted that
> so anyone on the list have any ideas how i might come accross a few more
> hardbacks of Mr Feists work?

Apprently, you can get some on ebay (I don't really know, cause I never
use it), but I've always found that second hand books stores are the best,
I've picked up quite a few that way..

Thanks
Darragh
================================================
University of Queensland
Information Technology / Arts (History) student
[Email #1] s356179@student.uq.edu.au
[Email #2] squik@solutionone.com.au
[Web Site] http://hainsworth.ath.cx/~squik/
================================================



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From: "Cameron Duncan" <cduncan@atinera.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Signing And Tour
Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 10:34:41 +1000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Cameron Duncan" <cduncan@atinera.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Signing And Tour
Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 10:34:41 +1000
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Darragh Murray
> Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2002 10:20 AM
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Subject: Re: Signing And Tour

<snip>

> Apprently, you can get some on ebay (I don't really know, cause I never
> use it), but I've always found that second hand books stores are the best,
> I've picked up quite a few that way..
>
> Thanks
> Darragh
> ================================================
> University of Queensland
> Information Technology / Arts (History) student
> [Email #1] s356179@student.uq.edu.au
> [Email #2] squik@solutionone.com.au
> [Web Site] http://hainsworth.ath.cx/~squik/
> ================================================
>
So it YOU Darragh!!!!
You're the one running around town buying up all the books I am after!!!
<cheeky grin>

:)

Cameron



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Subject: Re: News Tour Dates
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Subject: Re: News Tour Dates
Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 12:47:49 +1200
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hmm... Mr. Feist doesnt have NZ on his intinerary though so what are you
talking about.... the closest he is coming is Australia.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Stevenson" <richard.stevenson@team.xtra.co.nz>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2002 11:30 AM
Subject: Re: News Tour Dates


> On Wed, 15 May 2002, Julie Wootten wrote:
>
> > > September 28th Auckland
>
> One *very* pleasant surprise to find in my mailbox when I get to work :)
>
> > WOOHOO!  Only an 8 hr drive.  Still, beggars can't be choosers.
>
> <grin> I've already been in touch with friends as far away as Dunedin
> about the tour :)  I hope NZ doesn't get taken off the itinerary later...
> Personally, I'll be more than happy to make the drive (and I already drive
> ~1200km a week getting to and from work... daft geek, me).
>
> /me wonders just how many books he can get signed at once ;)
>
> Cheers
>
> Richard
>
>
> --
> Richard Stevenson, Systems Specialist, Xtra Limited
> Phone: +64 9 355 5231   Mobile: +64 25 290 3101   Pager: +64 26 100 155
>
>



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Subject: Re: News Tour Dates
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Subject: Re: News Tour Dates
Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 12:58:51 +1200
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> September 28th Auckland
WOOHOO !!!!!
<runs, jumps, screams in joy !!!!>
:)


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Raymond Feist" <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: <fEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2002 5:47 AM
Subject: News Tour Dates


> Looks like this is the newest plan:
> 
> September 6-7 Amsterdam (which means probably one or two other cities in 
> Holland those dates)
> 
> September 9-14 UK (where I don't know.  With only five days, I suspect 
> it'll be the usual big stops, London, Manchester, Birmingham, etc.)
> 
> September 17th Perth
> 
> September 18th Adelaide
> 
> September 19th  Melbourne
> 
> September 21st -23rd Sydney
> 
> September 25th-26 Brisbane
> 
> September 28th Auckland
> 
> 
> More changes if I get them.
> 
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
> 
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
> stupidity.
> 



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Subject: Re: News Tour Dates
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*** EOOH ***
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From: "Adam Thornton" <sandman_one87@hotmail.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: News Tour Dates
Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 13:01:38 +1200
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actually i take that back, oops, hadnt received the new info yet.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Adam Thornton" <sandman_one87@hotmail.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2002 12:47 PM
Subject: Re: News Tour Dates


> hmm... Mr. Feist doesnt have NZ on his intinerary though so what are you
> talking about.... the closest he is coming is Australia.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Richard Stevenson" <richard.stevenson@team.xtra.co.nz>
> To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2002 11:30 AM
> Subject: Re: News Tour Dates
>
>
> > On Wed, 15 May 2002, Julie Wootten wrote:
> >
> > > > September 28th Auckland
> >
> > One *very* pleasant surprise to find in my mailbox when I get to work :)
> >
> > > WOOHOO!  Only an 8 hr drive.  Still, beggars can't be choosers.
> >
> > <grin> I've already been in touch with friends as far away as Dunedin
> > about the tour :)  I hope NZ doesn't get taken off the itinerary later...
> > Personally, I'll be more than happy to make the drive (and I already drive
> > ~1200km a week getting to and from work... daft geek, me).
> >
> > /me wonders just how many books he can get signed at once ;)
> >
> > Cheers
> >
> > Richard
> >
> >
> > --
> > Richard Stevenson, Systems Specialist, Xtra Limited
> > Phone: +64 9 355 5231   Mobile: +64 25 290 3101   Pager: +64 26 100 155
> >
> >
>
>



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*** EOOH ***
From: "Julie Wootten" <wootten@xtra.co.nz>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: News Tour Dates
Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 13:16:04 +1200
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Ray did not originally have NZ on his tour schedule.  However, there is a
city in
NZ called Auckland, that just happens to be between Brisbane (the city
preceding)
and Ray's home.  Of course his latest itinerary is also subject to change...
so we may
lose him again.

Julie.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Adam Thornton" <sandman_one87@hotmail.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2002 12:47 PM
Subject: Re: News Tour Dates


> hmm... Mr. Feist doesnt have NZ on his intinerary though so what are you
> talking about.... the closest he is coming is Australia.
>
> > On Wed, 15 May 2002, Julie Wootten wrote:
> >
> > > > September 28th Auckland




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From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Signing And Tour
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From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Signing And Tour
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> > Apprently, you can get some on ebay (I don't really know, cause I never
> > use it), but I've always found that second hand books stores are the best,
> > I've picked up quite a few that way..
> > Thanks
> > Darragh
> So it YOU Darragh!!!!
> You're the one running around town buying up all the books I am after!!!
> <cheeky grin>
> Cameron

I cannot tell a lie, it is I

Thanks
Darragh
================================================
University of Queensland
Information Technology / Arts (History) student
[Email #1] s356179@student.uq.edu.au
[Email #2] squik@solutionone.com.au
[Web Site] http://hainsworth.ath.cx/~squik/
================================================



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From: Tim Nicholas <tim@nicholas.net.nz>
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On Wed, May 15, 2002 at 11:30:21AM +1200, Richard Stevenson wrote:
> On Wed, 15 May 2002, Julie Wootten wrote:
> 
> > > September 28th Auckland
> 
> One *very* pleasant surprise to find in my mailbox when I get to work :)
> 
> > WOOHOO!  Only an 8 hr drive.  Still, beggars can't be choosers.
> 
> <grin> I've already been in touch with friends as far away as Dunedin
> about the tour :)  I hope NZ doesn't get taken off the itinerary later...

Its a shame that it's a mightly long way... A signed Magician Delux
edition would be really really cool. I can't see it happening
though. Hell, if i was going to fly it would probably be cheaper to
go to Australia. 

Tim

> Personally, I'll be more than happy to make the drive (and I already drive
> ~1200km a week getting to and from work... daft geek, me).

Heh. Life is harsh isn't it. :)

> 
> /me wonders just how many books he can get signed at once ;)
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Richard
> 
> 
> -- 
> Richard Stevenson, Systems Specialist, Xtra Limited
> Phone: +64 9 355 5231   Mobile: +64 25 290 3101   Pager: +64 26 100 155
> 
> 

-- 
Tim Nicholas                          ||                      Cilix
Email: tim@nicholas.net.nz            ||       Dunedin, New Zealand
http://tim.nicholas.net.nz/           ||  Cell/SMS: +64 21 113 0399
"Grow up, Larry. You give me too much credit." - Linus Torvalds



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>From: Al Burrell <al.burl@tiscali.co.uk>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: Re: Absence
>Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 11:32:17 +0100
>
>The question I have to ask is, if it is for your own pleasure, why did you
>even bother to mention it in the first place? By doing this, you have now
>brought other people into the equation.

I mentioned it because I thought this was a place to talk about all things 
Feist!
Also where I live we have freedom of speech and this should not be an issue 
of contention.
I was merely sharing my thoughts with other "open-minded" people <G>

Regards
Chris
"The absence of alternatives clears the mind marvelously."
Henry Kissinger
>


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>From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
>Subject: Re: Absence
>Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 20:40:39 +1000 (GMT+1000)
>
> > I think we will have to beg to differ!
> > As I understand it I am legally entitled to write anything
>
>In this world, no

As I already asked if anyone has legal proof to dispute my claim please 
email me
off list.
>
> > No one will see what I write except me and if any case was brought 
>against
> > me it would be a simple case of destroying what I had written.
>
>Forgetting that you just alerted the entire mailing list of the existence
>of this document.

And? Again replies off list please!!!!!!

>Thanks
>Darragh

Regards
Chris

"Anybody can win unless there happens to be a second entry."
George Ada (1866 - 1944)


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Thank you all for your thoughts on the subject of my novel based on
Ray's ideas.
I have listened to what you all have said and would kindly ask if anyone has
any further thoughts on the topic to email them to me off list as I
don't want to cause any difficulties here.
I thank rip for his insights and Sean Fister for his link.

On a final note I would suggest we all have ideas on where we would like to 
see
Ray go with certain aspects of his works, but as Ray has pointed out himself 
on
many occasions he writes what he wants to write. I merely wrote down my 
ideas as one would a diary.
Again thanks to you all and please feel free to continue this topic
OFF LIST if you wish. Personally I think it up to Ray to have the final word 
here. After all......it IS his works that inspires my imagination!
However if Ray does not wish me to continue to write as I do for my own 
pleasure I will desist!

Regards
Chris

"And that's the world in a nutshell, an appropriate receptacle."
Stan Dun



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From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
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> >The question I have to ask is, if it is for your own pleasure, why did you
> >even bother to mention it in the first place? By doing this, you have now
> >brought other people into the equation.
> I mentioned it because I thought this was a place to talk about all things
> Feist!
> Also where I live we have freedom of speech and this should not be an issue
> of contention.
> I was merely sharing my thoughts with other "open-minded" people <G>
> Regards
> Chris

Depending on your ideals, 'freedom of speech' is an
illusion.

In my opinion, this is a discussion group based of 'legal' feist-related
topics (as defined by the consensus of the group as a whole).

As Ray has previously stated, the writing of fanfiction is a serious no-no
whether it be for personal amusement, or profit.

On a lighter note, why not you try experimenting in your own original
world (in terms of writing), you might find it fulfilling in the long
term.

Thanks
Darragh
================================================
University of Queensland
Information Technology / Arts (History) student
[Email #1] s356179@student.uq.edu.au
[Email #2] squik@solutionone.com.au
[Web Site] http://hainsworth.ath.cx/~squik/
================================================



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Yep, was thinking along those lines as well. Paris or Bussels would have 
been nice, but London ain't out of the world either.

Marc aka Caran...

Sylvain Guehl wrote:

>pfff, if only you had more fans in France :(
>
>Anyway, Longon's not so far from Paris by train :)
>
>Syl
>
>
>>Looks like this is the newest plan:
>>
>>September 6-7 Amsterdam (which means probably one or two other cities in 
>>Holland those dates)
>>
>>September 9-14 UK (where I don't know. With only five days, I suspect 
>>it'll be the usual big stops, London, Manchester, Birmingham, etc.)
>>
>>September 17th Perth
>>
>>September 18th Adelaide
>>
>>September 19th Melbourne
>>
>>September 21st -23rd Sydney
>>
>>September 25th-26 Brisbane
>>
>>September 28th Auckland
>>
>>
>>More changes if I get them.
>>
>>Best, R.E.F.
>>----
>>
>>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
>>stupidity.
>>
>>
>
>
>Fenyx Kell.
>
>




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Subject: Re: News Tour Dates
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From: "Mark Tonkin" <shadowfire@chariot.net.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: News Tour Dates
Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 22:10:27 +0930
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Raymond Feist" <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: <fEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2002 3:17 AM
Subject: News Tour Dates


> Looks like this is the newest plan:
>
> September 6-7 Amsterdam (which means probably one or two other cities in
> Holland those dates)
>
> September 9-14 UK (where I don't know.  With only five days, I suspect
> it'll be the usual big stops, London, Manchester, Birmingham, etc.)
>
> September 17th Perth
>
> September 18th Adelaide
>

Yay!  I can't wait to catch up with you here in Adelaide Ray.  I'll arrange
a petition to send to the publishers if they remove it from your schedule
:-).

All the best and looking forward to September.

- MARK



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From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Absence
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<begin rant>
     Look, I am sick of people hiding behind the first Amendment as
an excuse to do something illegal.  Free speech means you are free
to express YOUR opinions, not steal other people's.  At no point
does freedom of speech allow any form of copyright infringement.
All those little rules in the bill of rights are subject to
limitations, generally the policy being you can't use them to
deliberately infringe upon other people (i.e. you can't steal
people's ideas and you are not allowed to force your ideas upon
people who don't want to listen).  And if you are stealing Ray's
ideas (i.e. world) you are infringing on his ability to support his
kids.  We're not a close-minded bunch, but we are certainly biased
towards our own self interest in keeping Ray as profitable as
possible.  Why?  Because we want him to continue writing, and if
that means we are likely too turn in infringers as we find them
(I've done so, as have other people in the past), we certainly will.
If you want to write, write your own works.  I do.  So do a lot of
other list members.
<end rant>

-James

----- Original Message -----

> >The question I have to ask is, if it is for your own pleasure, why did you
> >even bother to mention it in the first place? By doing this, you have now
> >brought other people into the equation.
>
> I mentioned it because I thought this was a place to talk about all things
> Feist!
> Also where I live we have freedom of speech and this should not be an issue
> of contention.
> I was merely sharing my thoughts with other "open-minded" people <G>
>
> Regards
> Chris
> "The absence of alternatives clears the mind marvelously."
> Henry Kissinger



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i


>From: "Julie Wootten" <wootten@xtra.co.nz>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
>Subject: Re: News Tour Dates
>Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 13:16:04 +1200
>
>Ray did not originally have NZ on his tour schedule.  However, there is a
>city in
>NZ called Auckland, that just happens to be between Brisbane (the city
>preceding)
>and Ray's home.  Of course his latest itinerary is also subject to 
>change...
>so we may
>lose him again.
>
>Julie.
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Adam Thornton" <sandman_one87@hotmail.com>
>To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
>Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2002 12:47 PM
>Subject: Re: News Tour Dates
>
>
> > hmm... Mr. Feist doesnt have NZ on his intinerary though so what are you
> > talking about.... the closest he is coming is Australia.
> >
> > > On Wed, 15 May 2002, Julie Wootten wrote:
> > >
> > > > > September 28th Auckland
>
>




I Am 4p...Hear Me Roar!

Is REF coming to England, specifically the south, any time soon?

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.



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I have replied to this post off list as I have on numerous
occasions now asked to keep this topic off list <G>

Regards
Chris

"Life is a great big canvas, and you should throw all the paint on it you 
can."
Danny Kaye

>From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
>Subject: Re: Absence
>Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 19:01:29 +1000 (GMT+1000)
>
> > >The question I have to ask is, if it is for your own pleasure, why did 
>you
> > >even bother to mention it in the first place? By doing this, you have 
>now
> > >brought other people into the equation.
> > I mentioned it because I thought this was a place to talk about all 
>things
> > Feist!
> > Also where I live we have freedom of speech and this should not be an 
>issue
> > of contention.
> > I was merely sharing my thoughts with other "open-minded" people <G>
> > Regards
> > Chris
>
>Depending on your ideals, 'freedom of speech' is an
>illusion.
>
>In my opinion, this is a discussion group based of 'legal' feist-related
>topics (as defined by the consensus of the group as a whole).
>
>As Ray has previously stated, the writing of fanfiction is a serious no-no
>whether it be for personal amusement, or profit.
>
>On a lighter note, why not you try experimenting in your own original
>world (in terms of writing), you might find it fulfilling in the long
>term.
>
>Thanks
>Darragh
>================================================
>University of Queensland
>Information Technology / Arts (History) student
>[Email #1] s356179@student.uq.edu.au
>[Email #2] squik@solutionone.com.au
>[Web Site] http://hainsworth.ath.cx/~squik/
>================================================


_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com



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>From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>

><begin rant>
>      Look, I am sick of people hiding behind the first Amendment as
>an excuse to do something illegal.  Free speech means you are free
>to express YOUR opinions, not steal other people's.  At no point
>does freedom of speech allow any form of copyright infringement.
>All those little rules in the bill of rights are subject to
>limitations, generally the policy being you can't use them to
>deliberately infringe upon other people (i.e. you can't steal
>people's ideas and you are not allowed to force your ideas upon
>people who don't want to listen).  And if you are stealing Ray's
>ideas (i.e. world) you are infringing on his ability to support his
>kids.  We're not a close-minded bunch, but we are certainly biased
>towards our own self interest in keeping Ray as profitable as
>possible.  Why?  Because we want him to continue writing, and if
>that means we are likely too turn in infringers as we find them
>(I've done so, as have other people in the past), we certainly will.
>If you want to write, write your own works.  I do.  So do a lot of
>other list members.
><end rant>
>
>-James
>
Some people seem a little egotistical in my opinion as they cannot keep
off list with their comments even though I have repeatedly asked for this!
Its as if they need an audiance for their rants <G>

For the LAST time on list I will say again
I have written nothing for publication, distribution or for anyone
other than myself to see. Perhaps when I said I had written a novel
I should have said a diary as basically this is all it is. I have
put my ideas based on outside influences down in writing for my own
pleasure for future reference!

Now PLEASE keep this topic offlist as only people wanting to start
trouble would do otherwise! (IMHO)

Regards
Chris

"People who like this sort of thing will find this the sort of thing they 
like."
Abraham Lincoln, in a book review




_________________________________________________________________
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From: "Wouter Durnez" <arutha_of_krondor@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Tolkien
Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 15:58:35 +0000
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From: "Wouter Durnez" <arutha_of_krondor@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Tolkien
Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 15:58:35 +0000
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I NEVER said Ray was a better writer, and I do know that Tolkien was a 
master of the language. He studied English litterature, so this is quite 
logical. What I meant to say with the 'argument'-thing, was that some of my 
friends call Ray a faker. Now I can say 'no, he isn't, he's just paying 
tribute to the most creative mind of all times (my opinion) by using some 
words/names Tolkien invented.
Wouter


>From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
>Subject: Re: Tolkien
>Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 15:52:45 -0500
>
>
>
>
> > I see, thanks. The 'tip of the hat' is cool, I think I'll use that
>in my
> > arguments with my friends :) I'd say the link is rather obvious,
>like in the
> > names, as you said (Eldar, Eledhel, ...)
>
>The link is tenous.  It doesn't make for a good basis for any
>argument.
>
> > Tolkien's work also has something that tends to remind me of the
>Bible
> > (for fantasy-freaks that is :)), and you're work is much more
>fluent.
>
>That is because Tolkien's work is a Mythological style, as are many
>other works, including the Bible and to some extent Beowulf and
>numerous other Epics and Sagas.  It isn't a style Ray uses because
>there is a marked difference in the readers sought, and the
>foundation of those works.
>
>As for fluency, while Ray is certainly more than competent with the
>written word, Tolkien was a MASTER of the langauge.  The difference
>you are seeing is in style and presentation, not in skill.
>
>Apples and Oranges.  Both Fruit...definitely not the same.
>
>-James
>




_________________________________________________________________
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From: Joel Rosenberg <joelr@ellegon.com>
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Absence
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On Wednesday 15 May 2002 09:26 am, Milamber Pug wrote:

> For the LAST time on list I will say again
> I have written nothing for publication, distribution or for anyone
> other than myself to see. 

And if you'd done that, and not mentioned it to anybody, while you might -- 
well, would, probably -- be in violation of copyrights and trademarks and 
such, it'd be sort of like the noise that a tree makes when it falls in the 
forest and there's nobody around to see, and nobody would object to the 
deafening sound. 

I'm, err, fairly sure that Ray's not going to try to get a search warrant to 
search every home in the world for undistributed Riftwar fan fiction, even 
though such fan fiction violates his copyrights, in the intent of punishing 
somebody who writes, say, an unauthorized Tale of the Riftwar and doesn't 
ever show it to anybody or tell anybody about it.  

The problem is that when people push the envelope on things like 
fan/derivative fiction is that the writer is in danger of losing intellectual 
property rights by failing to defend them.  Since most people who do that 
through fan fiction are not exactly rolling in money, the punitive damages 
make that necessary action a very expensive proposition -- and even if, say, 
you're loaded, and a court would, say, extract a few million dollars in 
punitives from you, it'd still be a very time-consuming and aggravating one.  



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From: "David P. Rouse" <viperphi@ezaccess.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Absence
Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 13:29:41 -0400
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Subject: RE: Absence
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Oh! This is fun isn't it? Because you asked for it be discussed off list
it most definitely should be done and with haste? Please.

I do not believe anyone here is trying to start trouble... Oh, yes, in
my humble opinion! They are merely pointing out your possible
infringement on a copyright.

I do not believe that ego has anything to with the replies on-list. The
list is here so people do have an audience. I frequently ask God for a
million dollars and he frequently doesn't give it to me. The Point: Ask
and it shall not always be given unto you... Unless of course you are
God?

So, how about this... Just follow my lead... Ok? 

"Thanks guys for showing me the error of my wayward ways. I have
destroyed 'all' of my fan fiction so as not to be in violation of the
law. ~Phew~ Sure glad I found out before something bad happened. Yeah,
it's all gone. All of it. So we can stop the madness and let Feist write
about Midkemia and I'll just write about how to cook turnips."

Get my drift? You shouldn't have brought it up in the first place.

Regards,

David P. Rouse
Force PC

-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Milamber Pug
>Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2002 10:27 AM
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: Re: Absence
>
>Some people seem a little egotistical in my opinion as they cannot keep
>off list with their comments even though I have repeatedly asked for
>this!
>Its as if they need an audiance for their rants <G>
>
>For the LAST time on list I will say again
>I have written nothing for publication, distribution or for anyone
>other than myself to see. Perhaps when I said I had written a novel
>I should have said a diary as basically this is all it is. I have
>put my ideas based on outside influences down in writing for my own
>pleasure for future reference!
>
>Now PLEASE keep this topic offlist as only people wanting to start
>trouble would do otherwise! (IMHO)
>
>Regards
>Chris
>
>"People who like this sort of thing will find this the sort of thing
>they 
>like."
>Abraham Lincoln, in a book review
>
>
>
>---
>[This E-mail scanned for viruses by IAS, an Archiventure Company]
>
>

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From: "Milamber Pug" <milamber_aka_pug@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Absence
Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 18:15:35 +0000
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From: "Milamber Pug" <milamber_aka_pug@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Absence
Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 18:15:35 +0000
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Why is this on list?

Regards
chris

>From: Joel Rosenberg <joelr@ellegon.com>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: Re: Absence
>Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 11:36:00 -0500
>
>On Wednesday 15 May 2002 09:26 am, Milamber Pug wrote:
>
> > For the LAST time on list I will say again
> > I have written nothing for publication, distribution or for anyone
> > other than myself to see.
>
>And if you'd done that, and not mentioned it to anybody, while you might --
>well, would, probably -- be in violation of copyrights and trademarks and
>such, it'd be sort of like the noise that a tree makes when it falls in the
>forest and there's nobody around to see, and nobody would object to the
>deafening sound.
>
>I'm, err, fairly sure that Ray's not going to try to get a search warrant 
>to
>search every home in the world for undistributed Riftwar fan fiction, even
>though such fan fiction violates his copyrights, in the intent of punishing
>somebody who writes, say, an unauthorized Tale of the Riftwar and doesn't
>ever show it to anybody or tell anybody about it.
>
>The problem is that when people push the envelope on things like
>fan/derivative fiction is that the writer is in danger of losing 
>intellectual
>property rights by failing to defend them.  Since most people who do that
>through fan fiction are not exactly rolling in money, the punitive damages
>make that necessary action a very expensive proposition -- and even if, 
>say,
>you're loaded, and a court would, say, extract a few million dollars in
>punitives from you, it'd still be a very time-consuming and aggravating 
>one.
>


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.



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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: RE: Absence
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From: "Milamber Pug" <milamber_aka_pug@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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I have replyed to this one off list!
Regards
Chris

"If all the world's a stage, I want to operate the trap door."
Paul Beatty

>From: "David P. Rouse" <viperphi@ezaccess.net>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
>Subject: RE: Absence
>Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 13:29:41 -0400
>
>Oh! This is fun isn't it? Because you asked for it be discussed off list
>it most definitely should be done and with haste? Please.

>I do not believe anyone here is trying to start trouble... Oh, yes, in
>my humble opinion! They are merely pointing out your possible
>infringement on a copyright.


>I do not believe that ego has anything to with the replies on-list. The
>list is here so people do have an audience. I frequently ask God for a
>million dollars and he frequently doesn't give it to me. The Point: Ask
>and it shall not always be given unto you... Unless of course you are
>God?

Why do ego-less people need an audience?????

>So, how about this... Just follow my lead... Ok?
>
>"Thanks guys for showing me the error of my wayward ways. I have
>destroyed 'all' of my fan fiction so as not to be in violation of the
>law. ~Phew~ Sure glad I found out before something bad happened. Yeah,
>it's all gone. All of it. So we can stop the madness and let Feist write
>about Midkemia and I'll just write about how to cook turnips."


>Get my drift? You shouldn't have brought it up in the first place.
>
>Regards,
>
>David P. Rouse
>Force PC
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Milamber Pug
>Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2002 10:27 AM
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: Re: Absence
>
>Some people seem a little egotistical in my opinion as they cannot keep
>off list with their comments even though I have repeatedly asked for
>this!
>Its as if they need an audiance for their rants <G>
>
>For the LAST time on list I will say again
>I have written nothing for publication, distribution or for anyone
>other than myself to see. Perhaps when I said I had written a novel
>I should have said a diary as basically this is all it is. I have
>put my ideas based on outside influences down in writing for my own
>pleasure for future reference!
>
>Now PLEASE keep this topic offlist as only people wanting to start
>trouble would do otherwise! (IMHO)
>
>Regards
>Chris
>
>"People who like this sort of thing will find this the sort of thing
>they
>like."
>Abraham Lincoln, in a book review
>
>
>
>---
>[This E-mail scanned for viruses by IAS, an Archiventure Company]


_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com



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Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 20:23:31 +0200
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Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 20:23:31 +0200
From: Caranorn Aglaredhel <caranorn@cmdnet.lu>
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Organization: House Phoenix
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; fr-FR; rv:0.9.4) Gecko/20011130 Netscape6/6.2.1
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Absence
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Actually anyone wanting to prevent future copyright abuse would try and 
hold the discussion publicly. At least that's my opinion.

Marc aka Caran...

P.S.: I also started writting in Midkemia but as soon as i learned about 
Ray's point of view (years ago on eWorld) I put that entire project on 
hold, later converted it to my own world and finally took all direct 
links out.

Milamber Pug wrote:

>
>
>
>> From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
>
>
>> <begin rant>
>>      Look, I am sick of people hiding behind the first Amendment as
>> an excuse to do something illegal.  Free speech means you are free
>> to express YOUR opinions, not steal other people's.  At no point
>> does freedom of speech allow any form of copyright infringement.
>> All those little rules in the bill of rights are subject to
>> limitations, generally the policy being you can't use them to
>> deliberately infringe upon other people (i.e. you can't steal
>> people's ideas and you are not allowed to force your ideas upon
>> people who don't want to listen).  And if you are stealing Ray's
>> ideas (i.e. world) you are infringing on his ability to support his
>> kids.  We're not a close-minded bunch, but we are certainly biased
>> towards our own self interest in keeping Ray as profitable as
>> possible.  Why?  Because we want him to continue writing, and if
>> that means we are likely too turn in infringers as we find them
>> (I've done so, as have other people in the past), we certainly will.
>> If you want to write, write your own works.  I do.  So do a lot of
>> other list members.
>> <end rant>
>>
>> -James
>>
> Some people seem a little egotistical in my opinion as they cannot keep
> off list with their comments even though I have repeatedly asked for this!
> Its as if they need an audiance for their rants <G>
>
> For the LAST time on list I will say again
> I have written nothing for publication, distribution or for anyone
> other than myself to see. Perhaps when I said I had written a novel
> I should have said a diary as basically this is all it is. I have
> put my ideas based on outside influences down in writing for my own
> pleasure for future reference!
>
> Now PLEASE keep this topic offlist as only people wanting to start
> trouble would do otherwise! (IMHO)
>
> Regards
> Chris
>
> "People who like this sort of thing will find this the sort of thing 
> they like."
> Abraham Lincoln, in a book review




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From: "Wouter Durnez" <arutha_of_krondor@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re: Absence
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From: "Wouter Durnez" <arutha_of_krondor@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Absence
Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 16:03:21 +0000
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 15 May 2002 18:23:09.0282 (UTC) FILETIME=[90A1EC20:01C1FC3D]
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It's quite annoying to see an entire flood of mails in my mailbox, 
concerning only one topic. Well, topic, It's starting to look like a war, so 
knock it off. I think 'Milamber' has a right to do whatever he wants, as 
long as he doesn't violate any copyright-laws. On the other hand, I don't 
think it's very original. There.
Wouter


>From: "Milamber Pug" <milamber_aka_pug@hotmail.com>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: Re: Absence
>Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 14:26:46 +0000
>
>
>
>
>>From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
>
>><begin rant>
>>      Look, I am sick of people hiding behind the first Amendment as
>>an excuse to do something illegal.  Free speech means you are free
>>to express YOUR opinions, not steal other people's.  At no point
>>does freedom of speech allow any form of copyright infringement.
>>All those little rules in the bill of rights are subject to
>>limitations, generally the policy being you can't use them to
>>deliberately infringe upon other people (i.e. you can't steal
>>people's ideas and you are not allowed to force your ideas upon
>>people who don't want to listen).  And if you are stealing Ray's
>>ideas (i.e. world) you are infringing on his ability to support his
>>kids.  We're not a close-minded bunch, but we are certainly biased
>>towards our own self interest in keeping Ray as profitable as
>>possible.  Why?  Because we want him to continue writing, and if
>>that means we are likely too turn in infringers as we find them
>>(I've done so, as have other people in the past), we certainly will.
>>If you want to write, write your own works.  I do.  So do a lot of
>>other list members.
>><end rant>
>>
>>-James
>>
>Some people seem a little egotistical in my opinion as they cannot keep
>off list with their comments even though I have repeatedly asked for this!
>Its as if they need an audiance for their rants <G>
>
>For the LAST time on list I will say again
>I have written nothing for publication, distribution or for anyone
>other than myself to see. Perhaps when I said I had written a novel
>I should have said a diary as basically this is all it is. I have
>put my ideas based on outside influences down in writing for my own
>pleasure for future reference!
>
>Now PLEASE keep this topic offlist as only people wanting to start
>trouble would do otherwise! (IMHO)
>
>Regards
>Chris
>
>"People who like this sort of thing will find this the sort of thing they
>like."
>Abraham Lincoln, in a book review
>
>
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.
>




_________________________________________________________________
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From: "Milamber Pug" <milamber_aka_pug@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: OT - Its sunny here
Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 18:39:06 +0000
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Subject: OT - Its sunny here
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Just thought I would like to share with you all It has been a glorious sunny 
day here in my part of the UK!

Regards
Chris

"The world is a tragedy to those who feel, but a comedy to those who think."
Horace Walpole


_________________________________________________________________
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From: "Tan, Liwen" <liwen.tan@ic.ac.uk>
To: "'fEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" <fEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: News Tour Dates ++fancy a drink?
Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 19:48:30 +0100
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Tan, Liwen" <liwen.tan@ic.ac.uk>
To: "'fEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" <fEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: News Tour Dates ++fancy a drink?
Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 19:48:30 +0100
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Ray,

if you're in London, will they let you out for a quick drink down the pub
with some fans?

Failing that, would we be ill advised to faked a kidnapping in the name of a
quiet drink? (yeah right, like they'd let us...)

Terence.




-----Original Message-----
>From: Raymond Feist
>To: 
>Sent: 5/14/2002 6:47 PM
>Subject: News Tour Dates
>
>Looks like this is the newest plan:
>
>September 6-7 Amsterdam (which means probably one or two other cities in
>
>Holland those dates)
>
>September 9-14 UK (where I don't know.  With only five days, I suspect 
>it'll be the usual big stops, London, Manchester, Birmingham, etc.)
>
>September 17th Perth
>
>September 18th Adelaide
>
>September 19th  Melbourne
>
>September 21st -23rd Sydney
>
>September 25th-26 Brisbane
>
>September 28th Auckland
>
>
>More changes if I get them.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
>stupidity.

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From: "Mic Olafson" <tbird7775@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Absence
Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 14:23:40 -0500
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 15 May 2002 19:23:40.0434 (UTC) FILETIME=[04F7BF20:01C1FC46]
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I think you should continue to right and enjoy your work.
Ray is not God nomatter what he thinks. I love Ray's works but as a
person he is an asshole.



>From: "Milamber Pug" <milamber_aka_pug@hotmail.com>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: Re: Absence
>Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 08:27:17 +0000
>
>Thank you all for your thoughts on the subject of my novel based on
>Ray's ideas.
>I have listened to what you all have said and would kindly ask if anyone 
>has
>any further thoughts on the topic to email them to me off list as I
>don't want to cause any difficulties here.
>I thank rip for his insights and Sean Fister for his link.
>
>On a final note I would suggest we all have ideas on where we would like to
>see
>Ray go with certain aspects of his works, but as Ray has pointed out 
>himself
>on
>many occasions he writes what he wants to write. I merely wrote down my
>ideas as one would a diary.
>Again thanks to you all and please feel free to continue this topic
>OFF LIST if you wish. Personally I think it up to Ray to have the final 
>word
>here. After all......it IS his works that inspires my imagination!
>However if Ray does not wish me to continue to write as I do for my own
>pleasure I will desist!
>
>Regards
>Chris
>
>"And that's the world in a nutshell, an appropriate receptacle."
>Stan Dun
>
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
>http://www.hotmail.com
>




_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com



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From: "Wouter Durnez" <arutha_of_krondor@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Absence
Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 19:42:18 +0000
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From: "Wouter Durnez" <arutha_of_krondor@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Absence
Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 19:42:18 +0000
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Jezus man, how would you feel if your income was threatened by some person 
that lacks the imagination to create an original ideas? Ray did all this on 
his own, and he has a right to be proud of it. There are lots of authors 
that feel this way about their work, but Ray is one of the few that answer 
our questions. So get off his back.

Just invent your own characters, it isn't so hard if you try. Using ideas, 
created by other's, well, I think that's lame, unless you give the whole 
thing an ENTIRELY new point of view, or unless you have permission by the 
author.

I hope you understand what I mean, expressing myself in English is still 
rather difficult for me :s

Wouter


>From: "Mic Olafson" <tbird7775@hotmail.com>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: Re: Absence
>Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 14:23:40 -0500
>
>I think you should continue to right and enjoy your work.
>Ray is not God nomatter what he thinks. I love Ray's works but as a
>person he is an asshole.
>
>
>
>>From: "Milamber Pug" <milamber_aka_pug@hotmail.com>
>>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>>Subject: Re: Absence
>>Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 08:27:17 +0000
>>
>>Thank you all for your thoughts on the subject of my novel based on
>>Ray's ideas.
>>I have listened to what you all have said and would kindly ask if anyone
>>has
>>any further thoughts on the topic to email them to me off list as I
>>don't want to cause any difficulties here.
>>I thank rip for his insights and Sean Fister for his link.
>>
>>On a final note I would suggest we all have ideas on where we would like 
>>to
>>see
>>Ray go with certain aspects of his works, but as Ray has pointed out
>>himself
>>on
>>many occasions he writes what he wants to write. I merely wrote down my
>>ideas as one would a diary.
>>Again thanks to you all and please feel free to continue this topic
>>OFF LIST if you wish. Personally I think it up to Ray to have the final
>>word
>>here. After all......it IS his works that inspires my imagination!
>>However if Ray does not wish me to continue to write as I do for my own
>>pleasure I will desist!
>>
>>Regards
>>Chris
>>
>>"And that's the world in a nutshell, an appropriate receptacle."
>>Stan Dun
>>
>>
>>
>>_________________________________________________________________
>>Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
>>http://www.hotmail.com
>>
>
>
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
>




_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx



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To: feistfans-l@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Dan Lorey <dl24@cornell.edu>
Subject: ADMIN: Enough (Re: Absence)
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 15:39:05 -0400
To: feistfans-l@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Dan Lorey <dl24@cornell.edu>
Subject: ADMIN: Enough (Re: Absence)
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Folks,

  Enough is enough. I've already removed this person from the list for
crossing the line of acceptable behavior. Let's put an end to this
discussion now before anyone else joins them.

  Dan Lorey - Feistfans-L List Owner

At 14:23 5/15/02 -0500, "Mic Olafson" <tbird7775@hotmail.com> wrote:
>I think you should continue to right and enjoy your work.



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From: Larry Scroggins <falling_98@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Absence
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 13:00:59 -0700 (PDT)
From: Larry Scroggins <falling_98@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Absence
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Wow! Now there's a hot sports opinion.  It's Ray's world.  Only he gets to
decide on who can play in it.  It is kind of interesting that he hasn't
put his, or his lawyer's, two cents in on this particular conversation
though.


--- Mic Olafson <tbird7775@hotmail.com> wrote:
> I think you should continue to right and enjoy your work.
> Ray is not God nomatter what he thinks. I love Ray's works but as a
> person he is an asshole.
> 
> 
> 
> >From: "Milamber Pug" <milamber_aka_pug@hotmail.com>
> >Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> >To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> >Subject: Re: Absence
> >Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 08:27:17 +0000
> >
> >Thank you all for your thoughts on the subject of my novel based on
> >Ray's ideas.
> >I have listened to what you all have said and would kindly ask if
> anyone 
> >has
> >any further thoughts on the topic to email them to me off list as I
> >don't want to cause any difficulties here.
> >I thank rip for his insights and Sean Fister for his link.
> >
> >On a final note I would suggest we all have ideas on where we would
> like to
> >see
> >Ray go with certain aspects of his works, but as Ray has pointed out 
> >himself
> >on
> >many occasions he writes what he wants to write. I merely wrote down my
> >ideas as one would a diary.
> >Again thanks to you all and please feel free to continue this topic
> >OFF LIST if you wish. Personally I think it up to Ray to have the final
> 
> >word
> >here. After all......it IS his works that inspires my imagination!
> >However if Ray does not wish me to continue to write as I do for my own
> >pleasure I will desist!
> >
> >Regards
> >Chris
> >
> >"And that's the world in a nutshell, an appropriate receptacle."
> >Stan Dun
> >
> >
> >
> >_________________________________________________________________
> >Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
> >http://www.hotmail.com
> >
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
> 


=====
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Larry Scroggins

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience
http://launch.yahoo.com



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Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 14:41:17 -0700
Subject: Re: News Tour Dates ++fancy a drink?
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Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 14:41:17 -0700
Subject: Re: News Tour Dates ++fancy a drink?
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Wednesday, May 15, 2002, at 11:48 AM, Tan, Liwen wrote:

> Ray,
>
> if you're in London, will they let you out for a quick drink down the 
> pub
> with some fans?
>
> Failing that, would we be ill advised to faked a kidnapping in the name 
> of a
> quiet drink? (yeah right, like they'd let us...)
>

I rarely have time for that.  I'm usually off from a signing to an 
interview or dinner with publishing types or what have you.  When I get 
the final draft of the itinerary then I will know if there's any such 
sort of window.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Tolkien
Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 16:53:21 -0500
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

> I NEVER said Ray was a better writer, and I do know that Tolkien was a
> master of the language. He studied English litterature, so this is quite
> logical.

You stated that he (Ray) was more fluent.  That is a comment
percieved as being comparative between the two.

> What I meant to say with the 'argument'-thing, was that some of my
> friends call Ray a faker. Now I can say 'no, he isn't, he's just paying
> tribute to the most creative mind of all times (my opinion) by using some
> words/names Tolkien invented.

Fine, but the comment stands, the link is tenous and relatively
inane as the basis of an argument.  The comment was applied to
neither you nor them initially but to the whole debate.  Though
since you clarified whose point of view it was, I will re-address
the statement: They are blowing a tenous link out of perspective and
without anything more than speculation or hearsay.

-James



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From: cdunemann <cdunemann@AncientEngineering.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Absence
Message-ID: <1021471765.3ce26c15a2c32@mail.trebuchet.com>
Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 14:09:25 +0000 (/etc/localtime)
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*** EOOH ***
From: cdunemann <cdunemann@AncientEngineering.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Absence
Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 14:09:25 +0000 (/etc/localtime)
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Why would he have to respond? He has at least a half dozen other people 
already protecting his intillectual property for him. Usually the only 
contact between original author and violator is a cease and desist order.
Going after some one for a piece of unpublished fan fiction is a waste of 
time and money in my opinion.





Quoting Larry Scroggins <falling_98@yahoo.com>:

> Wow! Now there's a hot sports opinion.  It's Ray's world.  Only he
> gets to
> decide on who can play in it.  It is kind of interesting that he
> hasn't
> put his, or his lawyer's, two cents in on this particular
> conversation
> though.
> 
> 
> --- Mic Olafson <tbird7775@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > I think you should continue to right and enjoy your work.
> > Ray is not God nomatter what he thinks. I love Ray's works but as
> a
> > person he is an asshole.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > >From: "Milamber Pug" <milamber_aka_pug@hotmail.com>
> > >Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > >To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > >Subject: Re: Absence
> > >Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 08:27:17 +0000
> > >
> > >Thank you all for your thoughts on the subject of my novel based
> on
> > >Ray's ideas.
> > >I have listened to what you all have said and would kindly ask
> if
> > anyone 
> > >has
> > >any further thoughts on the topic to email them to me off list
> as I
> > >don't want to cause any difficulties here.
> > >I thank rip for his insights and Sean Fister for his link.
> > >
> > >On a final note I would suggest we all have ideas on where we
> would
> > like to
> > >see
> > >Ray go with certain aspects of his works, but as Ray has pointed
> out 
> > >himself
> > >on
> > >many occasions he writes what he wants to write. I merely wrote
> down my
> > >ideas as one would a diary.
> > >Again thanks to you all and please feel free to continue this
> topic
> > >OFF LIST if you wish. Personally I think it up to Ray to have
> the final
> > 
> > >word
> > >here. After all......it IS his works that inspires my
> imagination!
> > >However if Ray does not wish me to continue to write as I do for
> my own
> > >pleasure I will desist!
> > >
> > >Regards
> > >Chris
> > >
> > >"And that's the world in a nutshell, an appropriate
> receptacle."
> > >Stan Dun
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >_________________________________________________________________
> > >Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
> > >http://www.hotmail.com
> > >
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >
> _________________________________________________________________
> > Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device:
> http://mobile.msn.com
> > 
> 
> 
> =====
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Larry Scroggins
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience
> http://launch.yahoo.com
> 





-I canna give ya more power captin. She'll fly herself apart!-

------------------------------------------------------------
"Have you hurled today?" (TM)

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-- RLT Enterprises --



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From: "A Irving" <s355156@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Signing And Tour
Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 09:01:20 +1000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "A Irving" <s355156@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Signing And Tour
Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 09:01:20 +1000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

And me too... Though I think most of mine are paperback/trade paperback.
The newer ones I have as HC.

CIAO,
     Aaron

http://www.hallofworlds.net/kerr/main.php
http://www.nightshadow.co.uk 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]
> On Behalf Of Cameron Duncan
> Sent: Wednesday, 15 May 2002 10:35 AM
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Subject: RE: Signing And Tour
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Darragh Murray
> > Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2002 10:20 AM
> > To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > Subject: Re: Signing And Tour
> 
> <snip>
> 
> > Apprently, you can get some on ebay (I don't really know, cause I never
> > use it), but I've always found that second hand books stores are the
> best,
> > I've picked up quite a few that way..
> >
> > Thanks
> > Darragh
> > ================================================
> > University of Queensland
> > Information Technology / Arts (History) student
> > [Email #1] s356179@student.uq.edu.au
> > [Email #2] squik@solutionone.com.au
> > [Web Site] http://hainsworth.ath.cx/~squik/
> > ================================================
> >
> So it YOU Darragh!!!!
> You're the one running around town buying up all the books I am after!!!
> <cheeky grin>
> 
> :)
> 
> Cameron



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*** EOOH ***
From: RBlackley@aol.com
Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 19:14:35 EDT
Subject: Re: Absence
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

IMHO Joel can write what ever he wants.
Richard

In a message dated 5/15/2002 2:22:28 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
milamber_aka_pug@hotmail.com writes:


> Why is this on list?
> 
> Regards
> chris
> 


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Dan Quayle
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From: RBlackley@aol.com
Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 19:18:05 EDT
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I would respond but it would eb pointless since I'm sure Dan has kicked this 
guy off the list.  But if he hasn't then I suggest that who ever wrote this 
lock his door and bar his windows.

lol

Richard

> 
> I think you should continue to right and enjoy your work.
> Ray is not God nomatter what he thinks. I love Ray's works but as a
> person he is an asshole.
> 
> 


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From: RBlackley@aol.com
Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 19:20:00 EDT
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Then how many does it take untill he should go after them?

Richard




> Why would he have to respond? He has at least a half dozen other people 
> already protecting his intillectual property for him. Usually the only 
> contact between original author and violator is a cease and desist order.
> Going after some one for a piece of unpublished fan fiction is a waste of 
> time and money in my opinion.
> 


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Dan Quayle
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Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 10:02:04 +1000 (GMT+1000)
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From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Absence
In-Reply-To: <F244Tk5qVRjvOPoxsFB0001bfc4@hotmail.com>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 10:02:04 +1000 (GMT+1000)
From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Absence
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


Mate, I wouldn't be counting on you staying on this list for much longer.

> I think you should continue to right and enjoy your work.
> Ray is not God nomatter what he thinks. I love Ray's works but as a
> person he is an asshole.
>
>
>
> >From: "Milamber Pug" <milamber_aka_pug@hotmail.com>
> >Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> >To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> >Subject: Re: Absence
> >Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 08:27:17 +0000
> >
> >Thank you all for your thoughts on the subject of my novel based on
> >Ray's ideas.
> >I have listened to what you all have said and would kindly ask if anyone
> >has
> >any further thoughts on the topic to email them to me off list as I
> >don't want to cause any difficulties here.
> >I thank rip for his insights and Sean Fister for his link.
> >
> >On a final note I would suggest we all have ideas on where we would like to
> >see
> >Ray go with certain aspects of his works, but as Ray has pointed out
> >himself
> >on
> >many occasions he writes what he wants to write. I merely wrote down my
> >ideas as one would a diary.
> >Again thanks to you all and please feel free to continue this topic
> >OFF LIST if you wish. Personally I think it up to Ray to have the final
> >word
> >here. After all......it IS his works that inspires my imagination!
> >However if Ray does not wish me to continue to write as I do for my own
> >pleasure I will desist!
> >
> >Regards
> >Chris
> >
> >"And that's the world in a nutshell, an appropriate receptacle."
> >Stan Dun
> >
> >
> >
> >_________________________________________________________________
> >Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
> >http://www.hotmail.com
> >
>
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
>
>

Thanks
Darragh
================================================
University of Queensland
Information Technology / Arts (History) student
[Email #1] s356179@student.uq.edu.au
[Email #2] squik@solutionone.com.au
[Web Site] http://hainsworth.ath.cx/~squik/
================================================



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Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 10:02:24 +1000 (GMT+1000)
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From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: ADMIN: Enough (Re: Absence)
In-Reply-To: <2.2.32.20020515193905.0075ed04@postoffice2.mail.cornell.edu>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 10:02:24 +1000 (GMT+1000)
From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: FEISTFANS-L <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: ADMIN: Enough (Re: Absence)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Damn, ignore my previous post.

> Folks,
>
>   Enough is enough. I've already removed this person from the list for
> crossing the line of acceptable behavior. Let's put an end to this
> discussion now before anyone else joins them.
>
>   Dan Lorey - Feistfans-L List Owner
>
> At 14:23 5/15/02 -0500, "Mic Olafson" <tbird7775@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >I think you should continue to right and enjoy your work.
>
>

Thanks
Darragh
================================================
University of Queensland
Information Technology / Arts (History) student
[Email #1] s356179@student.uq.edu.au
[Email #2] squik@solutionone.com.au
[Web Site] http://hainsworth.ath.cx/~squik/
================================================



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From: "Jeff Weidemann" <jeff@pronto.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Book Tours
Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 14:12:47 +1000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Jeff Weidemann" <jeff@pronto.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Book Tours
Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 14:12:47 +1000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Ray, obviously books tours are about promotion and raising book sales
etc. Are they successful in the direct sense, i.e. do they push up
sales?  I have often wondered, as they come across as simply hard work.

Regards

Jeff Weidemann
<no sig>



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Subject: Leaving
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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From: richard.smith@pharma.novartis.com
Subject: Leaving
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 08:12:39 +0100
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After several years of lurking in the shadows it is time for me to depart.
Am going to pastures new to tomorrow and not sure on my new employer's
E-Mail policy (So if I can be back I will).
Would just like to thank everyone for their entertainment over the last few
years
had many a day brightened up my one or more of your mails and some
interesting
OT topics :-)
Many thanks to Ray for taking his time to answer questions and offer
opinions
on a variety of subjects.  I know its appreciated.

Once again thank you all

Richard.

PS could maybe do with a kind volunteer (Maybe John (g) ) Just to drop me a
monthly
E-Mail of any changes to tours, new books or relevant information etc....
If this is OK
will E-Mail you the new address :-)



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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Subject: Re: Leaving
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 09:20:08 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: Leaving
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Sounds like plug time for my site ;->

http://www.ferkel.co.uk/cgi/digestTOC.cgi

The digest of this list, filtered for annoyances and html'ized,
then put up on the web for your enjoyment.  Passive enjoyment
only...you can't post to the list from there.

rip

At 08:12 16/05/2002, you wrote:

>After several years of lurking in the shadows it is time for me to depart.
>Am going to pastures new to tomorrow and not sure on my new employer's
>E-Mail policy (So if I can be back I will).
>Would just like to thank everyone for their entertainment over the last few
>years
>had many a day brightened up my one or more of your mails and some
>interesting
>OT topics :-)
>Many thanks to Ray for taking his time to answer questions and offer
>opinions
>on a variety of subjects.  I know its appreciated.
>
>Once again thank you all
>
>Richard.
>
>PS could maybe do with a kind volunteer (Maybe John (g) ) Just to drop me a
>monthly
>E-Mail of any changes to tours, new books or relevant information etc....
>If this is OK
>will E-Mail you the new address :-)



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 02:16:17 -0700
Subject: Re: Book Tours
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Wednesday, May 15, 2002, at 09:12 PM, Jeff Weidemann wrote:

> Ray, obviously books tours are about promotion and raising book sales
> etc. Are they successful in the direct sense, i.e. do they push up
> sales?  I have often wondered, as they come across as simply hard work.
>

No one knows.  Obviously, they think they do, but that's tradition as 
much as anything else.

There is an axiom in advertising.  "We know that only 20% of what we do 
works.  We have to do it all, because at any given time, we don't know 
which 20% is working."

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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From: rrawson <rrawson7@comcast.net>
Subject: OT:  Star Wars
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 06:01:55 -0400
From: rrawson <rrawson7@comcast.net>
Subject: OT:  Star Wars
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I'll probably get flamed to all hell for posting this but I've seen
posts about other movies so I thought I'd risk it.  Episode II was a
pretty good movie.  There was a lot of good and a lot of bad, but it's
definitely worth the money to go see, beats Episode I by 100x
 
I did a little review on my site at http://www.ryanrawson.com
<http://www.ryanrawson.com/>  (the review doesn't have any spoilers)
that I'm trying to work on and hopefully make it a good site someday.  I
plan to have a Feist section soon too =)  Any feedback about the site
would be great, suggestions, etc.  It is my first time with a website.
 
-Ryan

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From: "Justin" <justin.carew@ntlworld.com>
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References: <F22ySa4k3z6QEy0Dll70000119b@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: OT - Its sunny here
Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 17:25:51 +0100
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Justin" <justin.carew@ntlworld.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: OT - Its sunny here
Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 17:25:51 +0100
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it was sunny in my part of the UK
aswell, and in Scotland that is weird.

Justin
----- Original Message -----
From: "Milamber Pug"
<milamber_aka_pug@hotmail.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2002 7:39 PM
Subject: OT - Its sunny here


| Just thought I would like to share with you all It has been a glorious sunny
| day here in my part of the UK!
|
| Regards
| Chris
|
| "The world is a tragedy to those who feel, but a comedy to those who think."
| Horace Walpole
|
|
| _________________________________________________________________
| Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.
|
|



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From: "Wouter Durnez" <arutha_of_krondor@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Tolkien
Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 17:48:25 +0000
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From: "Wouter Durnez" <arutha_of_krondor@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Tolkien
Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 17:48:25 +0000
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Okay, I give up :) (But I still think Ray is a better writer :p)
Wouter
PS: If this was a Dutch conversation, I wouldn't give up so easily, but for 
now, you've got me ;)


>From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
>Subject: Re: Tolkien
>Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 16:53:21 -0500
>
> > I NEVER said Ray was a better writer, and I do know that Tolkien
>was a
> > master of the language. He studied English litterature, so this is
>quite
> > logical.
>
>You stated that he (Ray) was more fluent.  That is a comment
>percieved as being comparative between the two.
>
> > What I meant to say with the 'argument'-thing, was that some of my
> > friends call Ray a faker. Now I can say 'no, he isn't, he's just
>paying
> > tribute to the most creative mind of all times (my opinion) by
>using some
> > words/names Tolkien invented.
>
>Fine, but the comment stands, the link is tenous and relatively
>inane as the basis of an argument.  The comment was applied to
>neither you nor them initially but to the whole debate.  Though
>since you clarified whose point of view it was, I will re-address
>the statement: They are blowing a tenous link out of perspective and
>without anything more than speculation or hearsay.
>
>-James
>




_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com



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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: Al Burrell <al.burl@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: OT: Online Bookstores
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 19:07:44 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: Al Burrell <al.burl@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: OT: Online Bookstores
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Sorry for the OT, but I thought this would be the best place to ask.

Does anyone know of any UK based online bookstores, other than amazon.co.uk 
and streetsonline.com

OFF LIST replies preferable.

Many Thanks

Al



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References: <Pine.OSF.4.30.0205161002160.11181-100000@student.uq.edu.au>
Subject: Re: ADMIN: Enough (Re: Absence)
Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 19:29:25 +0100
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Justin" <justin.carew@ntlworld.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: ADMIN: Enough (Re: Absence)
Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 19:29:25 +0100
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

sorry to continue this, but who's been
kicked off?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Darragh Murray"
<s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: "FEISTFANS-L"
<FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2002 1:02 AM
Subject: Re: ADMIN: Enough (Re: Absence)


|
| Damn, ignore my previous post.
|
| > Folks,
| >
| >   Enough is enough. I've already removed this person from the list for
| > crossing the line of acceptable behavior. Let's put an end to this
| > discussion now before anyone else joins them.
| >
| >   Dan Lorey - Feistfans-L List Owner
| >
| > At 14:23 5/15/02 -0500, "Mic Olafson" <tbird7775@hotmail.com> wrote:
| > >I think you should continue to right and enjoy your work.
| >
| >
|
| Thanks
| Darragh
| ================================================
| University of Queensland
| Information Technology / Arts (History) student
| [Email #1] s356179@student.uq.edu.au
| [Email #2] squik@solutionone.com.au
| [Web Site] http://hainsworth.ath.cx/~squik/
| ================================================
|
|



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*** EOOH ***
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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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> Sorry for the OT, but I thought this would be the best place to ask.
> 
> Does anyone know of any UK based online bookstores, other than amazon.co.uk 
> and streetsonline.com
> 
> OFF LIST replies preferable.


Since many of us may be looking for good prices on Ray's books, I
figured I'd keep this on-list, since it's also nominally on-topic.

For domestic books, I go to www.dealtime.com -- there's a UK
equivalent at www.dealtime.co.uk. Both sites search multiple online
bookstores (though oddly, amazon.co.uk doesn't appear to be one of
them) so you can compare prices. It found three stores selling Murder
in LaMut.



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 22:51:22 +0000
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From: "Sylvain Guehl" <fenyxkell@demo.xandmail.com>
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> the review doesn’t have any spoilers

WARNING : I'm sorry but it does. You shouldn't have spoken of Yoda
that way, no I will wait for it :(

Anyway, nice review.

Syl



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From: "Andy Bradley" <dark_elf@btinternet.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Language & Midkemia, (was RE: Tolkien)
Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 01:16:31 +0100
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Andy Bradley" <dark_elf@btinternet.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Language & Midkemia, (was RE: Tolkien)
Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 01:16:31 +0100
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Hi again everyone!

I've been lurking in the shadows for about a year since I last
contributed anything, but the discussion on Tolkien's influences on
Midkemia got me thinking, so here's a few questions for Ray:

I noticed the first time I read Magician that Ray has a very unique
style of writing. At that point Magician was the first fantasy novel I'd
ever read and I found the use of language a little strange. Since then
I've gotten used to it, but I would be very interested to hear what
inspired you to write using very formal English intermixed with old
English? One of your trademarks seems to be using the word "upon" rather
than "on" (just to pick an example), but you have never gone all the way
and used Thee's and Though's! Is it perhaps another tip of the hat to
Tolkien, who used a very formal style of English as well?

My second question is about Midkemia, and how you came to create it.

I know from other discussions that you created Midkemia with help from
your old RPG friends at Midkemia press, but did they help with Kelewan
as well? If so, then did you ever create more worlds together that
perhaps didn't make it into the novels, and what made you choose
Midkemia and Kelewan in particular? 

Finally (if its okay to ask?), because you had help in creating your
worlds, do you ever have to part with any of your hard earned book and
game income to pay them royalties?

~Andy



-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Wouter Durnez
>Sent: 16 May 2002 18:48
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: Re: Tolkien
>
>Okay, I give up :) (But I still think Ray is a better writer :p)
>Wouter
>PS: If this was a Dutch conversation, I wouldn't give up so easily, but
>for 
>now, you've got me ;)
>
>
>>From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
>>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>>To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
>>Subject: Re: Tolkien
>>Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 16:53:21 -0500
>>
>> > I NEVER said Ray was a better writer, and I do know that Tolkien
>>was a
>> > master of the language. He studied English litterature, so this is
>>quite
>> > logical.
>>
>>You stated that he (Ray) was more fluent.  That is a comment
>>percieved as being comparative between the two.
>>
>> > What I meant to say with the 'argument'-thing, was that some of my
>> > friends call Ray a faker. Now I can say 'no, he isn't, he's just
>>paying
>> > tribute to the most creative mind of all times (my opinion) by
>>using some
>> > words/names Tolkien invented.
>>
>>Fine, but the comment stands, the link is tenous and relatively
>>inane as the basis of an argument.  The comment was applied to
>>neither you nor them initially but to the whole debate.  Though
>>since you clarified whose point of view it was, I will re-address
>>the statement: They are blowing a tenous link out of perspective and
>>without anything more than speculation or hearsay.
>>
>>-James
>>
>
>
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com

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Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 10:20:43 +1000 (GMT+1000)
From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
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Subject: Re: OT:  Star Wars
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Please discuss star wars on a star wars list.

Many people probably haven't seen it yet. Best not to nip the thread in
the bud.

> I'll probably get flamed to all hell for posting this but I've seen
> posts about other movies so I thought I'd risk it.  Episode II was a
> pretty good movie.  There was a lot of good and a lot of bad, but it's
> definitely worth the money to go see, beats Episode I by 100x
>
> I did a little review on my site at http://www.ryanrawson.com
> <http://www.ryanrawson.com/>  (the review doesn't have any spoilers)
> that I'm trying to work on and hopefully make it a good site someday.  I
> plan to have a Feist section soon too =)  Any feedback about the site
> would be great, suggestions, etc.  It is my first time with a website.
>
> -Ryan
>

Thanks
Darragh
================================================
University of Queensland
Information Technology / Arts (History) student
[Email #1] s356179@student.uq.edu.au
[Email #2] squik@solutionone.com.au
[Web Site] http://hainsworth.ath.cx/~squik/
================================================



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From: "Andy Bradley" <dark_elf@btinternet.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Art?
Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 01:53:01 +0100
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Andy Bradley" <dark_elf@btinternet.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Art?
Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 01:53:01 +0100
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Hi again!

I knew I'd forget something in my last email, and sure enough!

I would like to know Ray's position on artwork inspired by his books? (I
apologise in advance if this topic is mentioned in the FAQ, but I lost
the link to it!)

I'm an artist in disguise and have been thinking about drawing/painting
scenes from Magician for along time now. I've never tried drawing anyone
else's characters and places before, but think I could do Ray's written
word justice! If I did, they would probably end up on my Elfwood
gallery, where anyone on the net could see them, so I thought I'd better
ask before I got too carried away.

~Andy



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From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Language & Midkemia, (was RE: Tolkien)
Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 20:15:49 -0500
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


> I noticed the first time I read Magician that Ray has a very unique
> style of writing. At that point Magician was the first fantasy novel I'd
> ever read and I found the use of language a little strange. Since then
> I've gotten used to it, but I would be very interested to hear what
> inspired you to write using very formal English intermixed with old
> English? One of your trademarks seems to be using the word "upon" rather
> than "on" (just to pick an example), but you have never gone all the way
> and used Thee's and Though's! Is it perhaps another tip of the hat to
> Tolkien, who used a very formal style of English as well?

    If I can put in my 2 cents on this one. (not that I don't
regularly anyway... hmmm, mental note: get more pennies!)  :P

    Actually you wouldn't understand Old English since it is very,
very different from the modern version.  Ready the origional version
of Beowulf it understand what I mean.
    Ray uses a curious mixture (not meaning that in a bad way) of
Post-Modern, Modern, and other Late Versions/Dialects of the English
Language.  Most of the words he uses appear during the late Middle
Ages and Early Ren. or later, almost nothing comes from pre-1066
English.
    As for "Upon" is still used fairly regularly by some groups
(notibly well educated individuals), so it hasn't fallen completely
out of disuse.  The fact that people don't use the language to
nearly it's fullest extent is a prime example of contemporary
laziness and relatively poor education (particularly state-side).
English can be a wonderful language, if you know more than a few
thousand words in it.  For sheer versitility there isn't a
comparison.  Ray just capitalizes on his grasp of the langauge.

-James



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From: "Philip A. Culver" <parlor@attbi.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Book Tours
Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 23:21:55 -0400
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From: "Philip A. Culver" <parlor@attbi.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Book Tours
Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 23:21:55 -0400
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

One thing that almost always works on me is the books authors sign to leave
for sale after their visit.  I am rarely in the store when an author is
visiting but those Barnes and Nobles signed copy stickers catch my eye fast
:)

Phil

>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Raymond Feist
>Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2002 5:16 AM
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: Re: Book Tours
>
>
>
>On Wednesday, May 15, 2002, at 09:12 PM, Jeff Weidemann wrote:
>
>> Ray, obviously books tours are about promotion and raising book sales
>> etc. Are they successful in the direct sense, i.e. do they push up
>> sales?  I have often wondered, as they come across as simply hard work.
>>
>
>No one knows.  Obviously, they think they do, but that's tradition as
>much as anything else.
>
>There is an axiom in advertising.  "We know that only 20% of what we do
>works.  We have to do it all, because at any given time, we don't know
>which 20% is working."
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
>stupidity.
>


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From: "Chris Bolan" <c.bolan@ecu.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Book Tours
Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 14:14:52 +0800
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Chris Bolan" <c.bolan@ecu.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Book Tours
Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 14:14:52 +0800
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Either way I am glad they happen as otherwise people outside of the 
Authors own country would be hard pressed to get signed copies of
their favourite works.

Chris

>
>On Wednesday, May 15, 2002, at 09:12 PM, Jeff Weidemann wrote:
>
>> Ray, obviously books tours are about promotion and raising book sales
>> etc. Are they successful in the direct sense, i.e. do they push up
>> sales?  I have often wondered, as they come across as simply hard work.
>>
>
>No one knows.  Obviously, they think they do, but that's tradition as 
>much as anything else.
>
>There is an axiom in advertising.  "We know that only 20% of what we do 
>works.  We have to do it all, because at any given time, we don't know 
>which 20% is working."
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
>stupidity.
>


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From: "Andy Bradley" <dark_elf@btinternet.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Language & Midkemia, (was RE: Tolkien)
Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 10:13:29 +0100
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Andy Bradley" <dark_elf@btinternet.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Language & Midkemia, (was RE: Tolkien)
Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 10:13:29 +0100
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Beowulf isn't the best example of "old English" literature because it
was originally a Norse myth past verbally from generation to generation!
It wasn't written down until well into the Saxon period of British
history, and the English language didn't exist at that time!

As for Ray capitalising on his grasp of the English language; yes I
agree completely! I should perhaps have phrased my question: What
inspired Mr Feist to write using a mixture of Formal modern English,
Modern American English, and older English that's not generally used
today? 

~Andy



-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of James Young
>Sent: 17 May 2002 02:16
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: Re: Language & Midkemia, (was RE: Tolkien)
>
>    If I can put in my 2 cents on this one. (not that I don't
>regularly anyway... hmmm, mental note: get more pennies!)  :P
>
>    Actually you wouldn't understand Old English since it is very,
>very different from the modern version.  Ready the origional version
>of Beowulf it understand what I mean.
>    Ray uses a curious mixture (not meaning that in a bad way) of
>Post-Modern, Modern, and other Late Versions/Dialects of the English
>Language.  Most of the words he uses appear during the late Middle
>Ages and Early Ren. or later, almost nothing comes from pre-1066
>English.
>    As for "Upon" is still used fairly regularly by some groups
>(notibly well educated individuals), so it hasn't fallen completely
>out of disuse.  The fact that people don't use the language to
>nearly it's fullest extent is a prime example of contemporary
>laziness and relatively poor education (particularly state-side).
>English can be a wonderful language, if you know more than a few
>thousand words in it.  For sheer versitility there isn't a
>comparison.  Ray just capitalizes on his grasp of the langauge.
>
>-James
>


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To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
References: <000001c1fd83$1c3c6df0$0b64a8c0@darkwood>
Subject: Re: Language & Midkemia, (was RE: Tolkien)
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From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Language & Midkemia, (was RE: Tolkien)
Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 07:15:45 -0500
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

    The written version of Beowulf is certainly in Old English,
remember the Saxon's were a Germanic tribe and English is a Germanic
Language, as are the Norse.  Beowulf IIRC is originally Danish, and
the Danes and the Saxons are very closely related groups.
    Beowulf marks the final split between the two languages.  It is
a perfectly good example and it is about 1500 years old as a written
tale, so you can see the shift.  If you want more info on it, the
folks out in Berkley do an annual read of the tale in the original
old English.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Andy Bradley" <dark_elf@btinternet.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Friday, May 17, 2002 4:13 AM
Subject: RE: Language & Midkemia, (was RE: Tolkien)


> Beowulf isn't the best example of "old English" literature because it
> was originally a Norse myth past verbally from generation to generation!
> It wasn't written down until well into the Saxon period of British
> history, and the English language didn't exist at that time!
>
> As for Ray capitalising on his grasp of the English language; yes I
> agree completely! I should perhaps have phrased my question: What
> inspired Mr Feist to write using a mixture of Formal modern English,
> Modern American English, and older English that's not generally used
> today?
>
> ~Andy
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of James Young
> Sent: 17 May 2002 02:16
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Subject: Re: Language & Midkemia, (was RE: Tolkien)
>
>     If I can put in my 2 cents on this one. (not that I don't
> regularly anyway... hmmm, mental note: get more pennies!)  :P
>
>     Actually you wouldn't understand Old English since it is very,
> very different from the modern version.  Ready the origional version
> of Beowulf it understand what I mean.
>     Ray uses a curious mixture (not meaning that in a bad way) of
> Post-Modern, Modern, and other Late Versions/Dialects of the English
> Language.  Most of the words he uses appear during the late Middle
> Ages and Early Ren. or later, almost nothing comes from pre-1066
> English.
>     As for "Upon" is still used fairly regularly by some groups
> (notibly well educated individuals), so it hasn't fallen completely
> out of disuse.  The fact that people don't use the language to
> nearly it's fullest extent is a prime example of contemporary
> laziness and relatively poor education (particularly state-side).
> English can be a wonderful language, if you know more than a few
> thousand words in it.  For sheer versitility there isn't a
> comparison.  Ray just capitalizes on his grasp of the langauge.
>
> -James
>



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References: <IKEEJFMMOLDKDNDLPHBGIEKGCCAA.c.bolan@ecu.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Book Tours
Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 07:18:30 -0500
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Book Tours
Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 07:18:30 -0500
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LOL It is hard enough IN the same country.  Which reminds me, Ray,
have you ceased doing mail-signings?

-James

----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Bolan" <c.bolan@ecu.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Friday, May 17, 2002 1:14 AM
Subject: RE: Book Tours


>
> Either way I am glad they happen as otherwise people outside of the
> Authors own country would be hard pressed to get signed copies of
> their favourite works.
>
> Chris
>
>
> On Wednesday, May 15, 2002, at 09:12 PM, Jeff Weidemann wrote:
>
> > Ray, obviously books tours are about promotion and raising book sales
> > etc. Are they successful in the direct sense, i.e. do they push up
> > sales?  I have often wondered, as they come across as simply hard work.
> >
>
> No one knows.  Obviously, they think they do, but that's tradition as
> much as anything else.
>
> There is an axiom in advertising.  "We know that only 20% of what we do
> works.  We have to do it all, because at any given time, we don't know
> which 20% is working."
>
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
>
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
> stupidity.
>



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Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 07:48:44 -0700
Subject: Re: Language & Midkemia, (was RE: Tolkien)
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 07:48:44 -0700
Subject: Re: Language & Midkemia, (was RE: Tolkien)
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Friday, May 17, 2002, at 02:13 AM, Andy Bradley wrote:

> Beowulf isn't the best example of "old English" literature because it
> was originally a Norse myth past verbally from generation to generation!
> It wasn't written down until well into the Saxon period of British
> history, and the English language didn't exist at that time!
>
> As for Ray capitalising on his grasp of the English language; yes I
> agree completely! I should perhaps have phrased my question: What
> inspired Mr Feist to write using a mixture of Formal modern English,
> Modern American English, and older English that's not generally used
> today?
>
>

None of the above.

First of all, I don't use "formal modern English," or "Modern American 
English," or even "English that's not generally used today."

Everything I write is used today, by myself and other authors; it's just 
that most of the writers working in the field elect a strict style based 
on their own preferences.

Editors cringe when they get a manuscript full of ""thee said-isms."    
"Book said-ism" is a term used to describe how an author does or doesn't 
contain the use of the word "said."  Tom Swifties are considered the 
hight of the comic book said-isms, e. g. "Hand me that welding torch," 
Tom rejoined.  "It's dynamite!" Tom exploded.    Any word substituted 
for "said."

So when an editor gets a bunch of "thees" and "thous," it better be 
Shakespear, or someone as good, else that book is probably never going 
to get published.

My choices are based on what I hear in my mental "ear" when I write.  
What "sounds" good to me regarding style choices.  Too many 
contractions, for example, can give a text too contemporary a feel.  
Certain slang terms or common modern usages can break the flow.  "Give 
me a break," would work in just about any language, i.e. let me have a 
moment, an opportunity, or an undeserved advantage, yet it would jar 
most readers of fantasy.  Why?  Because somehow we want to "hear" 
something that gives us the illusion of another time and place.

"Cut me some slack," is naval/ship/dockside slang that goes back before 
the American Civil War, yet if you used it in most historical novels it 
would jar the modern reader because it's slang that is still in use.

It's the same reason I can have a character sound roughly "cockney" to 
give them that sewers of London feel, yet I would never attempt to use 
Cockney Rhyming Slang, because 90% of those reading it wouldn't have a 
clue what the characters were saying.

In other words, it's all about the illusion of style.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 07:49:31 -0700
Subject: Re: Book Tours
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On Friday, May 17, 2002, at 05:18 AM, James Young wrote:

> LOL It is hard enough IN the same country.  Which reminds me, Ray,
> have you ceased doing mail-signings?
>
>

No.  I had three sets of books lost within six months, one of them a 
first edition of Silverthorn, so I will no longer do mail in signings.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 08:04:20 -0700
Subject: Re: Art?
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 08:04:20 -0700
Subject: Re: Art?
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Thursday, May 16, 2002, at 05:53 PM, Andy Bradley wrote:

> Hi again!
>
> I knew I'd forget something in my last email, and sure enough!
>
> I would like to know Ray's position on artwork inspired by his books? (I
> apologise in advance if this topic is mentioned in the FAQ, but I lost
> the link to it!)
>
> I'm an artist in disguise and have been thinking about drawing/painting
> scenes from Magician for along time now. I've never tried drawing anyone
> else's characters and places before, but think I could do Ray's written
> word justice! If I did, they would probably end up on my Elfwood
> gallery, where anyone on the net could see them, so I thought I'd better
> ask before I got too carried away.
>
> ~Andy
>
>
>
>

Art is OK, when based upon literary characters.

Fans often confuse copyright and trademark issues.

For example, art of Spock and Kirk is a trademark issue, not copyright.

Different laws, different legal tests, different legal remedies, and 
different issues regarding ownership and control.

It's considered a courtesy to mention the work upon which the art is 
based, i.e. if you paint a picture of Tomas on Ryath from Darkness, and 
you title the painting "Dragon Rider," it's considered a courtesy 
somewhere to include, "(from the novel, A Darkness at Sethanon, by 
Raymond E. Feist)"    Even that's not legally necessary, but as I said 
it's considered manners.

As I don't draw or paint, you can't infringe on the copyright of my art 
work.  And a painting isn't a copy of text.

Now, if, for example, I sell rights to Magician to 20th Century Fox for 
a major motion picture, and suddenly images from the film start 
appearing all over the net, those artists will undoubtedly hear from 
Fox's legal department if the lawyers think there are infringements.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Subject: Re: Art?
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Art?
Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 10:13:37 -0500
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Here's one for you, if someone does a piece of art now, and you
later choose to sell the rights to visual imagery to another, where
does that leave an artist's work that was done prior to the sale
being public knowledge?  Particularly if you were aware of the
artwork's existence?

-James

----- Original Message -----
> Art is OK, when based upon literary characters.
>
> Fans often confuse copyright and trademark issues.
>
> For example, art of Spock and Kirk is a trademark issue, not copyright.
>
> Different laws, different legal tests, different legal remedies, and
> different issues regarding ownership and control.
>
> It's considered a courtesy to mention the work upon which the art is
> based, i.e. if you paint a picture of Tomas on Ryath from Darkness, and
> you title the painting "Dragon Rider," it's considered a courtesy
> somewhere to include, "(from the novel, A Darkness at Sethanon, by
> Raymond E. Feist)"    Even that's not legally necessary, but as I said
> it's considered manners.
>
> As I don't draw or paint, you can't infringe on the copyright of my art
> work.  And a painting isn't a copy of text.
>
> Now, if, for example, I sell rights to Magician to 20th Century Fox for
> a major motion picture, and suddenly images from the film start
> appearing all over the net, those artists will undoubtedly hear from
> Fox's legal department if the lawyers think there are infringements.
>
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
>
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
> stupidity.
>
>



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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Book Tours
Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 10:14:40 -0500
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Bummer, guess I am going to have to find a way to get to a signing
then.  (which is very hard to do since you haven't been in the
South-East in quite some time).

-James

----- Original Message -----
> > LOL It is hard enough IN the same country.  Which reminds me, Ray,
> > have you ceased doing mail-signings?
> >
> >
>
> No.  I had three sets of books lost within six months, one of them a
> first edition of Silverthorn, so I will no longer do mail in signings.
>
> Best, R.E.F.




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From: "Andy Bradley" <dark_elf@btinternet.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Language & Midkemia, (was RE: Tolkien)
Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 16:20:01 +0100
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Andy Bradley" <dark_elf@btinternet.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Language & Midkemia, (was RE: Tolkien)
Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 16:20:01 +0100
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Swa sceal geong guma gode gewyrcean,
Fromum feohgiftum on faeder bearme,
Paet hine on ylde eft gewnnigen
Wilgesipas, ponne wig cume,
Leode gelaesten.


Perhaps the term "old English" is too ambiguous. Anglo Saxon is
certainly an ancestor of English, but it's as far removed from modern
English as modern German!

(PS, I can translate the above passage if anyone is interested, but I
feel sure we're moving off topic ;)

~Andy



-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of James Young
>Sent: 17 May 2002 13:16
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: Re: Language & Midkemia, (was RE: Tolkien)
>
>    The written version of Beowulf is certainly in Old English,
>remember the Saxon's were a Germanic tribe and English is a Germanic
>Language, as are the Norse.  Beowulf IIRC is originally Danish, and
>the Danes and the Saxons are very closely related groups.
>    Beowulf marks the final split between the two languages.  It is
>a perfectly good example and it is about 1500 years old as a written
>tale, so you can see the shift.  If you want more info on it, the
>folks out in Berkley do an annual read of the tale in the original
>old English.
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Andy Bradley" <dark_elf@btinternet.com>
>To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
>Sent: Friday, May 17, 2002 4:13 AM
>Subject: RE: Language & Midkemia, (was RE: Tolkien)
>
>
>> Beowulf isn't the best example of "old English" literature because
>it
>> was originally a Norse myth past verbally from generation to
>generation!
>> It wasn't written down until well into the Saxon period of British
>> history, and the English language didn't exist at that time!
>>
>> As for Ray capitalising on his grasp of the English language; yes
>I
>> agree completely! I should perhaps have phrased my question: What
>> inspired Mr Feist to write using a mixture of Formal modern
>English,
>> Modern American English, and older English that's not generally
>used
>> today?
>>
>> ~Andy
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of James Young
>> Sent: 17 May 2002 02:16
>> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>> Subject: Re: Language & Midkemia, (was RE: Tolkien)
>>
>>     If I can put in my 2 cents on this one. (not that I don't
>> regularly anyway... hmmm, mental note: get more pennies!)  :P
>>
>>     Actually you wouldn't understand Old English since it is very,
>> very different from the modern version.  Ready the origional
>version
>> of Beowulf it understand what I mean.
>>     Ray uses a curious mixture (not meaning that in a bad way) of
>> Post-Modern, Modern, and other Late Versions/Dialects of the
>English
>> Language.  Most of the words he uses appear during the late Middle
>> Ages and Early Ren. or later, almost nothing comes from pre-1066
>> English.
>>     As for "Upon" is still used fairly regularly by some groups
>> (notibly well educated individuals), so it hasn't fallen
>completely
>> out of disuse.  The fact that people don't use the language to
>> nearly it's fullest extent is a prime example of contemporary
>> laziness and relatively poor education (particularly state-side).
>> English can be a wonderful language, if you know more than a few
>> thousand words in it.  For sheer versitility there isn't a
>> comparison.  Ray just capitalizes on his grasp of the langauge.
>>
>> -James
>>
>


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> As I don't draw or paint, you can't infringe on the copyright of my art 
> work.  > 
Now i remeber this picture in a Midkemia press book............<G>
-- 
john@crydee.com

http://www.crydee.com



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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: Book Tours
In-Reply-To: <001901c1fdb5$91942e80$0dec79a5@oemcomputer>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 16:55:33 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: Book Tours
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Tell your advisors you're going to do some research on site,
in September, at the Faringdon Sponge Gravel pits (late Cretaceous)....
ok, they are Calcarea, but they might be related ;->

rip

At 16:14 17/05/2002, you wrote:
>Bummer, guess I am going to have to find a way to get to a signing
>then.  (which is very hard to do since you haven't been in the
>South-East in quite some time).
>
>-James
>
>----- Original Message -----
>> > LOL It is hard enough IN the same country.  Which reminds me,
>Ray,
>> > have you ceased doing mail-signings?
>> >
>> >
>>
>> No.  I had three sets of books lost within six months, one of them
>a
>> first edition of Silverthorn, so I will no longer do mail in
>signings.
>>
>> Best, R.E.F.



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From: "Andy Bradley" <dark_elf@btinternet.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Art?
Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 17:18:41 +0100
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Andy Bradley" <dark_elf@btinternet.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Art?
Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 17:18:41 +0100
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Thanks Ray, 

If I ever manage to create something worth publishing (on the net), I'll
certainly mention you as the author who inspired the artwork! I'll post
a link to the list as well!


~Andy

-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Raymond Feist
>Sent: 17 May 2002 16:04
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: Re: Art?
>
>
>On Thursday, May 16, 2002, at 05:53 PM, Andy Bradley wrote:
>
>> Hi again!
>>
>> I knew I'd forget something in my last email, and sure enough!
>>
>> I would like to know Ray's position on artwork inspired by his books? (I
>> apologise in advance if this topic is mentioned in the FAQ, but I lost
>> the link to it!)
>>
>> I'm an artist in disguise and have been thinking about drawing/painting
>> scenes from Magician for along time now. I've never tried drawing anyone
>> else's characters and places before, but think I could do Ray's written
>> word justice! If I did, they would probably end up on my Elfwood
>> gallery, where anyone on the net could see them, so I thought I'd better
>> ask before I got too carried away.
>>
>> ~Andy
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>Art is OK, when based upon literary characters.
>
>Fans often confuse copyright and trademark issues.
>
>For example, art of Spock and Kirk is a trademark issue, not copyright.
>
>Different laws, different legal tests, different legal remedies, and 
>different issues regarding ownership and control.
>
>It's considered a courtesy to mention the work upon which the art is 
>based, i.e. if you paint a picture of Tomas on Ryath from Darkness, and 
>you title the painting "Dragon Rider," it's considered a courtesy 
>somewhere to include, "(from the novel, A Darkness at Sethanon, by 
>Raymond E. Feist)"    Even that's not legally necessary, but as I said 
>it's considered manners.
>
>As I don't draw or paint, you can't infringe on the copyright of my art 
>work.  And a painting isn't a copy of text.
>
>Now, if, for example, I sell rights to Magician to 20th Century Fox for 
>a major motion picture, and suddenly images from the film start 
>appearing all over the net, those artists will undoubtedly hear from 
>Fox's legal department if the lawyers think there are infringements.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
>stupidity.
>


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Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 17:54:33 +0100
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From: John <john@crydee.com>
Subject: Re: News Tour Dates
References: <A417093A-6762-11D6-BB6E-003065A8A644@bittersea.com>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 17:54:33 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: John <john@crydee.com>
Subject: Re: News Tour Dates
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Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com> writes
>Looks like this is the newest plan:
>
>September 6-7 Amsterdam (which means probably one or two other cities 
>in Holland those dates)
>
>September 9-14 UK (where I don't know.  With only five days, I suspect 
>it'll be the usual big stops, London, Manchester, Birmingham, etc.)

You mean to say my house is not on the list ? I will have to open that 
shop after all :)

See I am still here , my lady friend hasn't completely dragged me away, 
yet that is :)
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
>stupidity.

-- 
John

john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.

Raymond E Feist Ring
http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm



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References: <5D92B954-69A7-11D6-A185-003065A8A644@bittersea.com>
Subject: Hmmm - was (Re: Art?)
Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 18:31:22 +0100
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*** EOOH ***
From: "M Chaloner" <markchaloner@btinternet.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Hmmm - was (Re: Art?)
Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 18:31:22 +0100
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From: "Raymond Feist" <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Friday, May 17, 2002 4:04 PM
Subject: Re: Art?
> Now, if, for example, I sell rights to Magician to 20th Century Fox for
> a major motion picture, and suddenly images from the film start
> appearing all over the net, those artists will undoubtedly hear from
> Fox's legal department if the lawyers think there are infringements.
> Best, R.E.F.

Hmmm..... When asked recently about the possibilty of Magician being filmed
any time soon, you replied 'no comment'.
Is this an inadverdant hint perhaps?

Mark ;-)



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Subject: Re: Art?
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 11:59:15 -0700
Subject: Re: Art?
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Friday, May 17, 2002, at 08:13 AM, James Young wrote:

> Here's one for you, if someone does a piece of art now, and you
> later choose to sell the rights to visual imagery to another, where
> does that leave an artist's work that was done prior to the sale
> being public knowledge?  Particularly if you were aware of the
> artwork's existence?
>
> -James

It's safe.  In fact, if the licensor does an image that looks too much 
like the fan art, the fan may have a copyright issue, but not a 
trademark, again very complex legal concepts.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 12:00:21 -0700
Subject: Re: Hmmm - was (Re: Art?)
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Friday, May 17, 2002, at 10:31 AM, M Chaloner wrote:

> From: "Raymond Feist" <raymond@bittersea.com>
> To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> Sent: Friday, May 17, 2002 4:04 PM
> Subject: Re: Art?
>> Now, if, for example, I sell rights to Magician to 20th Century Fox 
>> for >
> a major motion picture, and suddenly images from the film start
>> appearing all over the net, those artists will undoubtedly hear from
>> Fox's legal department if the lawyers think there are infringements.
>> Best, R.E.F.
>
> Hmmm..... When asked recently about the possibilty of Magician being 
> filmed
> any time soon, you replied 'no comment'.
> Is this an inadverdant hint perhaps?
>
> Mark ;-)
>
>
>
>
No comment.

Best,R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Subject: RE: Hmmm - was (Re: Art?)
Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 12:12:24 -0700
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content-class: urn:content-classes:message
Subject: RE: Hmmm - was (Re: Art?)
Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 12:12:24 -0700
Thread-Topic: Hmmm - was (Re: Art?)
Thread-Index: AcH91g8CXhcajXkaRRWe7299E+E7RQAAISZQ
From: "Stuart Johnson" <Stuart.Johnson@worldwidepackets.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
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If I hadn't seen this answer so many times before, I'd almost think
that Ray does things like this just to mess with us. :)

-Stuart (lurking since '96)

-----Original Message-----
>From: Raymond Feist [mailto:raymond@bittersea.com]
>Sent: Friday, May 17, 2002 12:00 PM
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: Re: Hmmm - was (Re: Art?)
>
>
>> Hmmm..... When asked recently about the possibilty of Magician being 
>> filmed
>> any time soon, you replied 'no comment'.
>> Is this an inadverdant hint perhaps?
>>
>> Mark ;-)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>No comment.
>
>Best,R.E.F.
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
>stupidity.
>


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From: "Terri Lyn Layman" <terrilyn@fullnet.com>
To: "FeistList \(E-mail\)" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Art
Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 14:14:49 -0500
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*** EOOH ***
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: "Terri Lyn Layman" <terrilyn@fullnet.com>
To: "FeistList \(E-mail\)" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Art
Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 14:14:49 -0500
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

In one of my classes my last semester in school, I had to be very careful
with copyright and trademark issues.  We were doing multi-media
presentations in streaming format and the class requirements were that all
images and sounds for the final project be "royalty free" as they were going
to put the projects on a portfolio DVD to be sent to perspective students.

Needless to say... it made for quite a challenge.  I think I spent a good
week working on making custom pictures, and sending emails of permission to
various sources I found online (I actually even had to get the JFK library
to send me a speech on CD... talk about paperwork!)  And even when a friend
of mine gave me educational rights to some content from her website (I was
doing the history of the Internet and WWW, and used her info to discuss the
Comm. Decency Act.), I had to list her as the source and the girl who
photographed her.  At the end, I wound up with three screens of credits in
return for usage of materials.

I now have a serious newfound respect for those who create intellectual
property.  I know that when I finally do get a job, although it will be much
of my intellectual property created, it will utlimately belong to the
company.  I suppose that in softwear, there are parallels, but sometimes I
think they are overlooked.

-TerriLyn (who really needs to find one of those job things... anyone in
southern Indiana or northern KY and care to help a girl out?)



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Subject: Re: Hmmm - was (Re: Art?)
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From: RBlackley@aol.com
Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 15:22:26 EDT
Subject: Re: Hmmm - was (Re: Art?)
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I agree
Richard

> If I hadn't seen this answer so many times before, I'd almost think that Ray 
> does things like this just to mess with us. :)
> 
> -Stuart (lurking since '96)


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Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 16:34:19 EDT
Subject: Re: Language & Midkemia, (was RE: Tolkien)
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From: Gkhd11a@aol.com
Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 16:34:19 EDT
Subject: Re: Language & Midkemia, (was RE: Tolkien)
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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In a message dated 5/17/02 10:01:29 AM Central Daylight Time, 
raymond@bittersea.com writes:


> On Friday, May 17, 2002, at 02:13 AM, Andy Bradley wrote:
> 
> > Beowulf isn't the best example of "old English" literature because it
> > was originally a Norse myth past verbally from generation to generation!
> > It wasn't written down until well into the Saxon period of British
> > history, and the English language didn't exist at that time!
> >
> > As for Ray capitalising on his grasp of the English language; yes I
> > agree completely! I should perhaps have phrased my question: What
> > inspired Mr Feist to write using a mixture of Formal modern English,
> > Modern American English, and older English that's not generally used
> > today?
> >
> >
> 
> None of the above.
> 
> First of all, I don't use "formal modern English," or "Modern American 
> English," or even "English that's not generally used today."
> 
> Everything I write is used today, by myself and other authors; it's just 
> that most of the writers working in the field elect a strict style based 
> on their own preferences.
> 
> Editors cringe when they get a manuscript full of ""thee said-isms."    
> "Book said-ism" is a term used to describe how an author does or doesn't 
> contain the use of the word "said."  Tom Swifties are considered the 
> hight of the comic book said-isms, e. g. "Hand me that welding torch," 
> Tom rejoined.  "It's dynamite!" Tom exploded.    Any word substituted 
> for "said."
> 
> So when an editor gets a bunch of "thees" and "thous," it better be 
> Shakespear, or someone as good, else that book is probably never going 
> to get published.
> 
> My choices are based on what I hear in my mental "ear" when I write.  
> What "sounds" good to me regarding style choices.  Too many 
> contractions, for example, can give a text too contemporary a feel.  
> Certain slang terms or common modern usages can break the flow.  "Give 
> me a break," would work in just about any language, i.e. let me have a 
> moment, an opportunity, or an undeserved advantage, yet it would jar 
> most readers of fantasy.  Why?  Because somehow we want to "hear" 
> something that gives us the illusion of another time and place.
> 
> "Cut me some slack," is naval/ship/dockside slang that goes back before 
> the American Civil War, yet if you used it in most historical novels it 
> would jar the modern reader because it's slang that is still in use.
> 
> It's the same reason I can have a character sound roughly "cockney" to 
> give them that sewers of London feel, yet I would never attempt to use 
> Cockney Rhyming Slang, because 90% of those reading it wouldn't have a 
> clue what the characters were saying.
> 
> In other words, it's all about the illusion of style.
> 
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
> 
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
> stupidity.
> 

       This is very interesting to me, as I have said before, I am dedicated 
to becoming a fantasy author (and Sci-Fi after).  In regard to style, I want 
to keep mainly to using my everyday language, so it can be read easily by the 
layman.  I think that using my everyday speech, and not trying to change it 
to a more "educated" style, will still alow me to get my meanings across 
clearly and relitively few words.  This might make more "educated" people 
upset, but I don't really care about that because I am uneducated when it 
comes to formal english, although I do understand it much better than the 
everyday Joe from how much I read.  What's funny to me is that, I have a 
fairly wide vocabulary, but I tend to use a very limited one while writting 
e-mails like this because I have not bothered yet to learn the spellings.
       I would be interested if Mr. Feist could give me a opionon... on my 
opinion.  I would also be thrilled if you could actually look at some of my 
work, and tell me what you think off it.  I tend to write very strongly, so I 
feel like a oger trying to pick up a glass plate sometimes.  Of course I 
think that it is better to be over strong that too weak, and would like to 
hear what you have to say of it.

1,,
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From: "Annelize & Tommy" <tommjens@online.no>
To: "Feistfans" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: A lot of questions
Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 22:50:19 +0200
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Annelize & Tommy" <tommjens@online.no>
To: "Feistfans" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: A lot of questions
Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 22:50:19 +0200
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Hello Ray!

I've been on the list on and off for several years now, only delurking a few
times when my burning desire to ask questions got the better of me. This
time around I've got a whole heap of questions for you, hope you'll find
time to answer some of them.

1. When did the list start?

2. Were you on the list from the beginning?

3. What makes you devote such a large amount of your time to the list, in
other words what makes it worth your while?

4. Did you consider writing in an other genre before deciding on fantasy?
Are there any plans to write something other than fantasy in the future?

5. Are there any unfinished and thus unpublished works preceeding Magician?
I find it amazing that you could write such a wonderful first novel without
any prior experience with writing fiction.

6. Have you ever had writer's block?

7. Have you rewarded in any way any of the people that created the world of
Midkemia with you and helped provide you with inspiration? I realize that
you wrote the books and that they are your accomplishment, so you don't owe
anyone anything. Hmm, just realized that this is private and really none of
my business. Feel free to ignore any and all questions that you consider
stupid, rude or ignorant ;-)

8. What part of your job do you appreciate the most? Is it the satisfaction
of handing over a finished book to the publisher, the money, the fans, the
pleasure of living in hotels when you do booksignings or something
completely different?

9. What is your weirdest experience you've had involving a fan?

10. I realize that you have no influence on the cover art for your books. If
however the opposite was true, which artist that has not been used so far on
your covers would you like to see used for your future books?

11. On an average day, how many pages do you write?

12. What sparked the collaboration with Janny Wurts?

13. Would you consider writing more books set in the Empire with authors
other than Janny Wurts like you're currently doing with Midkemia?

14. Do you get recognized on the streets by fans?

15. Will we ever know more about Winet?

16. Are you going to write untill you die of a ripe old age, or are you
planning to quit at some set point, say $100 million in the bank, when you
finish all 5 riftwars, or any other goal?

17. If I win the state lottery, will you write an Empire book just for me if
I pay you $10 million? I guess I really should start betting in the said
lottery before even asking you that one <bg>

I'll probably be back in a few years time with more questions, sorry if my
questioning is a bit ebullient!


Cheers,

Tommy Jensen

tommjens@online.no

P.S. Happy 17th of May to all the Norwegians on the list. D.S.



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Subject: Re: Language & Midkemia, (was RE: Tolkien)
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Language & Midkemia, (was RE: Tolkien)
Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 16:06:21 -0500
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

> Perhaps the term "old English" is too ambiguous. Anglo Saxon is
> certainly an ancestor of English, but it's as far removed from modern
> English as modern German!

    It's the other way 'round, Old English is very explicit in what
it means as far as linguistic studies go, it is a direct referance
to an Anglo-Saxon root langauge prior to the Norman invasion and
after the move of the aformentioned groups to the Isle of Britannia.
The whole point was that it is VERY removed from the modern
language, roughly 15 centuries removed.  Which of course was my
origional point.

-James (who dabbles in most subject that are obscure and otherwise
useless in life...leaving no time to study anything marketable)




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Subject: Re: A lot of questions
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From: "M Chaloner" <markchaloner@btinternet.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: A lot of questions
Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 22:19:33 +0100
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From: "Annelize & Tommy" <tommjens@online.no>
To: "Feistfans" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Friday, May 17, 2002 9:50 PM
Subject: A lot of questions
> I've been on the list on and off for several years now, only delurking a few
> times when my burning desire to ask questions got the better of me. This
> time around I've got a whole heap of questions for you, hope you'll find
> time to answer some of them.
> 1. When did the list start?
<snip>
> 17. If I win the state lottery, will you write an Empire book just for me if
> I pay you $10 million? I guess I really should start betting in the said
> lottery before even asking you that one <bg>
> Cheers,
> Tommy Jensen


Blimey, why don't you just pitch up on his doorstep & interview him!
<laughs>

Mark ;-)



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Subject: Re: A lot of questions
Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 23:33:11 +0200
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From: "Annelize & Tommy" <tommjens@online.no>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: A lot of questions
Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 23:33:11 +0200
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> > 1. When did the list start?
> <snip>
> > 17. If I win the state lottery, will you write an Empire book just for me
> if
> > I pay you $10 million? I guess I really should start betting in the said
> > lottery before even asking you that one <bg>
> > Cheers,
> > Tommy Jensen
>
>
> Blimey, why don't you just pitch up on his doorstep & interview him!
> <laughs>
>
> Mark ;-)
>
>

Oh, right. I forgot...

 18. Where do you live, Ray? <eg>

Cheers,

Tommy Jensen



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From: "Andy Bradley" <dark_elf@btinternet.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Language & Midkemia, (was RE: Tolkien)
Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 22:54:53 +0100
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Andy Bradley" <dark_elf@btinternet.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Language & Midkemia, (was RE: Tolkien)
Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 22:54:53 +0100
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I would dispute that claim. I'm not an expert on linguistic studies by
any means, but I'm sure that Latin has never been referred to as old
English before? It's a different language!

Perhaps you missed my earlier quote from Beowulf?

~Andy


-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of James Young
>Sent: 17 May 2002 22:06
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: Re: Language & Midkemia, (was RE: Tolkien)
>
>> Perhaps the term "old English" is too ambiguous. Anglo Saxon is
>> certainly an ancestor of English, but it's as far removed from modern
>> English as modern German!
>
>    It's the other way 'round, Old English is very explicit in what
>it means as far as linguistic studies go, it is a direct referance
>to an Anglo-Saxon root langauge prior to the Norman invasion and
>after the move of the aformentioned groups to the Isle of Britannia.
>The whole point was that it is VERY removed from the modern
>language, roughly 15 centuries removed.  Which of course was my
>origional point.
>
>-James (who dabbles in most subject that are obscure and otherwise
>useless in life...leaving no time to study anything marketable)
>


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From: "Andy Bradley" <dark_elf@btinternet.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: A lot of questions
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From: "Andy Bradley" <dark_elf@btinternet.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: A lot of questions
Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 23:07:27 +0100
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<snip>
>
>7. Have you rewarded in any way any of the people that created the world
>of Midkemia with you and helped provide you with inspiration? I realize
>that you wrote the books and that they are your accomplishment, so you
>don't owe anyone anything. Hmm, just realized that this is private and
>really none of my business. Feel free to ignore any and all questions
>that you consider stupid, rude or ignorant ;-)
>
<snip>

I asked a very similar question earlier, but it seems to have been
forgotten :(

~Andy



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From: "Dave Curran" <dave@davecurran.co.uk>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: A lot of questions
Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 00:06:16 +0100
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Dave Curran" <dave@davecurran.co.uk>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: A lot of questions
Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 00:06:16 +0100
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I'll leave Ray to answer his own questions.

However, until he does, I think I can narrow the options a little on
number 8.

People always assume that staying in a good hotel while working away from
home must be fantastic.
(I'm not saying that it's a bad old life living for free. <g>)
But... that's because most people only stay in hotels while on holiday!

Holidays are holidays, work is work, and I find that the number of stars
on the hotel brochure does not make work feel like holidays... At least,
not after the first few times.

So... it only remains for Ray to contradict me by revealing that he does
not care about the money, the satisfaction of finishing a book, or us
crazy fans. He does it all for a few free nights per year at the Crown
Plaza. <g>

...Dave...

Success is the journey, not the destination.
Remember to enjoy today!


> 8. What part of your job do you appreciate the most? Is it the
> satisfaction
> of handing over a finished book to the publisher, the money, the fans, the
> pleasure of living in hotels when you do booksignings or something
> completely different?



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Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 19:57:02 -0400
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Subject: RE: A lot of questions
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From: LDS627@aol.com
Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 19:57:02 -0400
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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In a message dated Fri, 17 May 2002  7:11:22 PM Eastern Daylight Time, "Dave Curran" <dave@davecurran.co.uk> writes:

>I'll leave Ray to answer his own questions.
>
>However, until he does, I think I can narrow the options a little on
>number 8.
>
>People always assume that staying in a good hotel while working away from
>home must be fantastic.
>(I'm not saying that it's a bad old life living for free. <g>)
>But... that's because most people only stay in hotels while on holiday!
>
>Holidays are holidays, work is work, and I find that the number of stars
>on the hotel brochure does not make work feel like holidays... At least,
>not after the first few times.
>
>So... it only remains for Ray to contradict me by revealing that he does
>not care about the money, the satisfaction of finishing a book, or us
>crazy fans. He does it all for a few free nights per year at the Crown
>Plaza. <g>
>
>...Dave...
>
>Success is the journey, not the destination.
>Remember to enjoy today!
>
>

I can certainly second THIS one. While working for Perot systems I
spent several weeks in various 4 star hotels, including the Ritz
Carlton. Even with the equivalent of an apartment sized suite and a
very generous expense account, I can say all this does is make it more
TOLERABLE, it is certainly not a perk.(Though I am sure those who
travel as often and have to stay in motel 6 may disagree <G>.). I
prefer my own bed, and I will take care of the restaurant on my own.

Larry Starkand



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Pug is his Midkemian name. Milamber is his Tsurani name. Neither are his
true name.


Steve
One of The Collective
http://learn.at/ahh
"Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then
do it." -- Lazarus Long

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Darragh Murray
> Sent: 14 May 2002 04:56
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Subject: Re: Pug's real name
>
>
> > Hi All,
> >
> > I have just recently signed up for the fan list so I am not too
> sure if this question has been asked before.
> >
> > In Magician, Chapter 22 (Training), it mentions that Pug found
> his true name the one that can never be said aloud, which means

> >
> > Michael Hough
>
> I think you might have misintepreted this.
>
> IMOHO - The Tsurani assembly gave Pug the name "Milamber" symobolising
> his new discpline in the greater path. It a symbol of his mastering
> of the greater path discipline. (I.e. Pug was the label given to a
> specific man with only lesser path training). It can be said aloud, as
> many tsurani magicians call him by that.
>
> I hope you understand this. My explanation was not the greatest.
>
> Thanks
> Darragh

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From: "Steven McCarthy" <steven@connect.ie>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Book Tours
Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 01:57:45 +0100
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Steven McCarthy" <steven@connect.ie>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Book Tours
Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 01:57:45 +0100
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

There was a referendum in Ireland a couple of years ago during which the
Government spent a lot of public money promoting a YES vote. A Supreme Court
judgement ruled that this was unconstitutional. The amendment was passed by
a very small margin. After that the 'NO' side challenged the result of the
referendum on the grounds that the govt. had helped pass it by
unconstitutional means paying for 'YES' advertising. It was rejected by the
Supreme Court on the grounds that the advertising did not influence the
electorate.

It was hilarious listening to advertising execs on the radio talk shows
after that judgement explaining how 'it's not an exact science' etc etc...


Steve
One of The Collective
http://learn.at/ahh
"Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then
do it." -- Lazarus Long

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Raymond Feist
> Sent: 16 May 2002 10:16
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Subject: Re: Book Tours
>
>
>
> On Wednesday, May 15, 2002, at 09:12 PM, Jeff Weidemann wrote:
>
> > Ray, obviously books tours are about promotion and raising book sales
> > etc. Are they successful in the direct sense, i.e. do they push up
> > sales?  I have often wondered, as they come across as simply hard work.
> >
>
> No one knows.  Obviously, they think they do, but that's tradition as
> much as anything else.
>
> There is an axiom in advertising.  "We know that only 20% of what we do
> works.  We have to do it all, because at any given time, we don't know
> which 20% is working."
>
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
>
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
> stupidity.
>
>
>

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Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 01:58:45 +0100
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From: Andrea J Chee <andrea@bloodaxe.com>
Subject: Re: Language & Midkemia, (was RE: Tolkien)
References: <005201c1fde6$b2e2d4c0$06ec79a5@oemcomputer>
 <000001c1fded$7a34c640$0b64a8c0@darkwood>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 01:58:45 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: Andrea J Chee <andrea@bloodaxe.com>
Subject: Re: Language & Midkemia, (was RE: Tolkien)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

In article <000001c1fded$7a34c640$0b64a8c0@darkwood>, Andy Bradley
<dark_elf@btinternet.com> writes
>I would dispute that claim. I'm not an expert on linguistic studies by
>any means, but I'm sure that Latin has never been referred to as old
>English before? It's a different language!

Maybe I've missed something in this thread, but what does Latin have to
do with it?

- ANDREA

-- 
^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^
                  ANDROMEDA - Internet Goddess
<andrea@bloodaxe.com>                    http://www.bloodaxe.com/
Bloodaxe's History Links:   http://www.geocities.com/Athens/5055/
The Loony Bin Archive:               http://www.theloonies.co.uk/



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 19:07:34 -0600
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Book Tours
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> On Wednesday, May 15, 2002, at 09:12 PM, Jeff Weidemann wrote:
>
> Ray, obviously books tours are about promotion and raising book sales
> etc. Are they successful in the direct sense, i.e. do they push up
> sales?  I have often wondered, as they come across as simply hard work.

Margaret Weis said recently, with regards to her upcoming semi-tour for
Dragons of a Vanished Moon, that a book tour was to not sell books, but
to get the book on bestseller lists, such as New York Times.

The idea being that book tours get groups of people to buy books at
once, ie, when they go to the bookstore to see the author. This will
push the book higher up on bestseller lists, which run from week to
week, month to month.

It is the bestseller lists that in turn sell the books.

I'm not quite sure that this still makes sense to me yet :)

Craig J. Ries



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Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 18:11:01 -0700
Subject: Re: A lot of questions
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 18:11:01 -0700
Subject: Re: A lot of questions
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Friday, May 17, 2002, at 01:50 PM, Annelize & Tommy wrote:

> Hello Ray!
>
> I've been on the list on and off for several years now, only delurking 
> a few
> times when my burning desire to ask questions got the better of me. This
> time around I've got a whole heap of questions for you, hope you'll find
> time to answer some of them.
>
> 1. When did the list start?

I have no idea.  Ask Dan, as it's his list.
>
> 2. Were you on the list from the beginning?

No, but I did come aboard during the first year, if I have it right.

>
> 3. What makes you devote such a large amount of your time to the list, 
> in
> other words what makes it worth your while?

It's a very effective way to communicate with fans.  For the hundred or 
so active fans, there are many more lurkers, and beyond that, lots of 
collateral impact, as many of those people relay what has been said to 
other readers.

>
> 4. Did you consider writing in an other genre before deciding on 
> fantasy?
> Are there any plans to write something other than fantasy in the future?
>

Yes, and yes.  For details, some other time.  I'm a little rushed right 
now.

> 5. Are there any unfinished and thus unpublished works preceeding 
> Magician?
> I find it amazing that you could write such a wonderful first novel 
> without
> any prior experience with writing fiction.

Magician was my first work.  But I was writing since the 2nd grade.

>
> 6. Have you ever had writer's block?

No.  There are times I don't want to write, but I can always make myself 
write.

>
> 7. Have you rewarded in any way any of the people that created the 
> world of
> Midkemia with you and helped provide you with inspiration? I realize 
> that
> you wrote the books and that they are your accomplishment, so you don't 
> owe
> anyone anything. Hmm, just realized that this is private and really 
> none of
> my business. Feel free to ignore any and all questions that you consider
> stupid, rude or ignorant ;-)
>

It is a private issue.

> 8. What part of your job do you appreciate the most? Is it the 
> satisfaction
> of handing over a finished book to the publisher, the money, the fans, 
> the
> pleasure of living in hotels when you do booksignings or something
> completely different?

Money first.  It allows me to pay the rent and feed my kids.  It's the 
best job I've ever had.  The satisfaction of story telling second.  The 
fans after that.

>
> 9. What is your weirdest experience you've had involving a fan?

One showed up at my doorstep at 7 am on a Sunday morning, with a stack 
of books.  He said he was in town for the week but couldn't be bothered 
to get around any sooner, but I had to sign them right there because he 
had to head to the airport and fly home.  That's when I decided it was 
time for an unlisted phone number and a mail drop.

>
> 10. I realize that you have no influence on the cover art for your 
> books. If
> however the opposite was true, which artist that has not been used so 
> far on
> your covers would you like to see used for your future books?

Too many to list.

>
> 11. On an average day, how many pages do you write?

Varies.  I guess the average is maybe 10-15 a day.

>
> 12. What sparked the collaboration with Janny Wurts?

That should be in the FAQ.
>
> 13. Would you consider writing more books set in the Empire with authors
> other than Janny Wurts like you're currently doing with Midkemia?

No.  The Empire is done.

>
> 14. Do you get recognized on the streets by fans?

Nope.

>
> 15. Will we ever know more about Winet?

Probably not.

>
> 16. Are you going to write untill you die of a ripe old age, or are you
> planning to quit at some set point, say $100 million in the bank, when 
> you
> finish all 5 riftwars, or any other goal?

Writers don't retire. They die. As Bob Silverberg, who's retired twice.  
And he's currently working on another book.

>
> 17. If I win the state lottery, will you write an Empire book just for 
> me if
> I pay you $10 million? I guess I really should start betting in the said
> lottery before even asking you that one <bg>

For ten million, you'd have a deal.
>

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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References: <000001c1fded$7a34c640$0b64a8c0@darkwood>
Subject: Re: Language & Midkemia, (was RE: Tolkien)
Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 20:13:51 -0500
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Language & Midkemia, (was RE: Tolkien)
Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 20:13:51 -0500
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<sigh>
    Latin is NOT the root of English, it is the root of French,
Spanish, Italian, Portuguese, and a couple of others.  English is a
GERMANIC language, and that means it is not a Romance language
(though it was heavily influenced by French starting in the 11th
Century).  English remains a language that is bound and determined
to absorb bits and pieces of other languages, but the structure is
still Germanic!  How you can imply that the root of English is Latin
is beyond me.
     And I saw the quote.  I can quote you Beowulf in perhaps as
many as half a dozen languages if you like (all of them Germanic in
origin).  But that isn't the point.  Besides that certainly didn't
look like Latin to me, if that is what you think it was you quoted
to me.  I may not speak much Latin, but I do know a little of it.

-James

----- Original Message -----
From: "Andy Bradley" <dark_elf@btinternet.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Friday, May 17, 2002 4:54 PM
Subject: RE: Language & Midkemia, (was RE: Tolkien)


> I would dispute that claim. I'm not an expert on linguistic studies by
> any means, but I'm sure that Latin has never been referred to as old
> English before? It's a different language!
>
> Perhaps you missed my earlier quote from Beowulf?
>
> ~Andy




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Subject: Re: A lot of questions
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: A lot of questions
Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 20:22:00 -0500
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LOL ok, so know we know your price.  HEY JOHN!  Care to start a
pool?  Maybe we can get that deluxe collectors work after all...all
we need is 10 million or so.

-James

> > 17. If I win the state lottery, will you write an Empire book just for
> > me if I pay you $10 million? I guess I really should start betting in
> > the said lottery before even asking you that one <bg>
>
> For ten million, you'd have a deal.
> >
>
> Best, R.E.F.




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Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 19:33:02 -0600
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Language & Midkemia, (was RE: Tolkien)
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James Young wrote:
> 
> English remains a language that is bound and determined to absorb bits
> and pieces of other languages, but the structure is still Germanic!

Probably mistook the fact that English has absorbed alot of Latin as
well due to science and such.

Craig J. Ries



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 19:34:37 -0600
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: A lot of questions
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Raymond Feist wrote:
> 
> Magician was my first work.  But I was writing since the 2nd grade.

I don't believe this was covered in the FAQ:

Many authors have to write and write for years, collect stacks of
rejection letters and whatnot, before finally seeing something
published, much less be successful.

Did you have to shop Magician around awhile, collecting rejection
letters?

Craig J. Ries



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From: "Greg Bulloch" <somedude1_2000@hotmail.com>
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Subject: family tree
Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 12:34:48 +1000
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i was wondering if some talented fan would be interested in creating a 
family tree most likely just conDoin and maybe Jameson but i think it would 
make it easier for people to understand who was whos son etc
would you approve of this Mr Feist?
it would just be a small project
but maybe there is one in exsistence?
any feedback would be appreciated

_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com



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From: Gkhd11a@aol.com
Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 22:48:39 EDT
Subject: Re: A lot of questions
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In a message dated 5/17/02 8:39:49 PM Central Daylight Time, cries@yifan.net 
writes:


> Raymond Feist wrote:
> > 
> > Magician was my first work.  But I was writing since the 2nd grade.
> 
> I don't believe this was covered in the FAQ:
> 
> Many authors have to write and write for years, collect stacks of
> rejection letters and whatnot, before finally seeing something
> published, much less be successful.
> 
> Did you have to shop Magician around awhile, collecting rejection
> letters?
> 
> Craig J. Ries
> 

       What I would like to know is how much of what kind of writing where 
you doing.  And did you have any formal education in writing, or an english 
major in college?  I know you wrote a little bit of fantasy as short stories, 
but I get the idea that it was just to get a few laughes from your freinds 
and pass the time.

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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: family tree
Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 22:04:04 -0500
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Several people have done so.  I don't remember who did what, but
John, Larry, James B., Rip, etc.  should know, as well as some other
would know exactly who did.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Greg Bulloch" <somedude1_2000@hotmail.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Friday, May 17, 2002 9:34 PM
Subject: family tree


> i was wondering if some talented fan would be interested in creating a
> family tree most likely just conDoin and maybe Jameson but i think it would
> make it easier for people to understand who was whos son etc
> would you approve of this Mr Feist?
> it would just be a small project
> but maybe there is one in exsistence?
> any feedback would be appreciated
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com
>



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Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 16:14:26 +1000 (GMT+1000)
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From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Pug's real name
In-Reply-To: <JFEAJPKDBPIHNHHIHKHLCEFPCKAA.steven@connect.ie>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 16:14:26 +1000 (GMT+1000)
From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Pug's real name
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I disagree - "Pug" seems to be his true name. I don't recall any system of
people having "true" names (like in the Ursula Le Guin "Sparrowhawk"
system).

> Pug is his Midkemian name. Milamber is his Tsurani name. Neither are his
> true name.
>
>
> Steve
> One of The Collective
> http://learn.at/ahh
> "Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done and why. Then
> do it." -- Lazarus Long
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Darragh Murray
> > Sent: 14 May 2002 04:56
> > To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > Subject: Re: Pug's real name
> >
> >
> > > Hi All,
> > >
> > > I have just recently signed up for the fan list so I am not too
> > sure if this question has been asked before.
> > >
> > > In Magician, Chapter 22 (Training), it mentions that Pug found
> > his true name the one that can never be said aloud, which means
>
> > >
> > > Michael Hough
> >
> > I think you might have misintepreted this.
> >
> > IMOHO - The Tsurani assembly gave Pug the name "Milamber" symobolising
> > his new discpline in the greater path. It a symbol of his mastering
> > of the greater path discipline. (I.e. Pug was the label given to a
> > specific man with only lesser path training). It can be said aloud, as
> > many tsurani magicians call him by that.
> >
> > I hope you understand this. My explanation was not the greatest.
> >
> > Thanks
> > Darragh
>

Thanks
Darragh
================================================
University of Queensland
Information Technology / Arts (History) student
[Email #1] s356179@student.uq.edu.au
[Email #2] squik@solutionone.com.au
[Web Site] http://hainsworth.ath.cx/~squik/
================================================



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Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 16:17:17 +1000 (GMT+1000)
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From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Book Tours
In-Reply-To: <3CE5A956.7C9BCBAB@yifan.net>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 16:17:17 +1000 (GMT+1000)
From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Book Tours
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

> > Ray, obviously books tours are about promotion and raising book sales
> > etc. Are they successful in the direct sense, i.e. do they push up
> > sales?  I have often wondered, as they come across as simply hard work.
> Margaret Weis said recently, with regards to her upcoming semi-tour for
> Dragons of a Vanished Moon, that a book tour was to not sell books, but
> to get the book on bestseller lists, such as New York Times.

I'd assume that to get a "bestseller" you have to sell lots of books...so
wouldn't being on tour to become a "bestselling" author logically indicate
you're on tour to sell books?

Hope I read you're email right.

Thanks
Darragh
================================================
University of Queensland
Information Technology / Arts (History) student
[Email #1] s356179@student.uq.edu.au
[Email #2] squik@solutionone.com.au
[Web Site] http://hainsworth.ath.cx/~squik/
================================================



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From: Matt Sainsbury <lord_al_rashid@yahoo.com>
Subject: Portman (was Re: OT:  Star Wars)
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 23:22:01 -0700 (PDT)
From: Matt Sainsbury <lord_al_rashid@yahoo.com>
Subject: Portman (was Re: OT:  Star Wars)
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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hmmmmm one thing.... how goooooddddd would Natalie
Portman be as Carline? :D *LOL* ok I shut up now :)

Matt 

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience
http://launch.yahoo.com



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From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: family tree
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 16:24:11 +1000 (GMT+1000)
From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: family tree
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Mate, It's already been done:)

There is a link (IIRC) from www.crydee.com

> i was wondering if some talented fan would be interested in creating a
> family tree most likely just conDoin and maybe Jameson but i think it would
> make it easier for people to understand who was whos son etc
> would you approve of this Mr Feist?
> it would just be a small project
> but maybe there is one in exsistence?
> any feedback would be appreciated
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com
>
>

Thanks
Darragh
================================================
University of Queensland
Information Technology / Arts (History) student
[Email #1] s356179@student.uq.edu.au
[Email #2] squik@solutionone.com.au
[Web Site] http://hainsworth.ath.cx/~squik/
================================================



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Subject: Re: Portman (was Re: OT:  Star Wars)
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From: JEEPMONSTER69@aol.com
Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 02:27:04 EDT
Subject: Re: Portman (was Re: OT:  Star Wars)
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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In a message dated 5/18/2002 2:26:19 AM Eastern Daylight Time, 
lord_al_rashid@yahoo.com writes:


> hmmmmm one thing.... how goooooddddd would Natalie
> Portman be as Carline? :D *LOL* ok I shut up now :)
> 
> Matt 
> 

Not a bad idea....she fits the profile.

                                                       Peace,
                                                                   Matt
"Lets Roll."- Todd Beamer
USA, Muthafacko!

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Subject: Re: Portman (was Re: OT:  Star Wars)
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Portman (was Re: OT:  Star Wars)
Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 01:32:22 -0500
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

This dies now too.  This is a specifically banned topic.  NO
DISCUSSION OF RAY'S BOOKS AS MOVIES AND WHICH ACTORS.  We've had too
many flame wars on this one.

----- Original Message -----
From: <JEEPMONSTER69@aol.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2002 1:27 AM
Subject: Re: Portman (was Re: OT: Star Wars)


> In a message dated 5/18/2002 2:26:19 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
> lord_al_rashid@yahoo.com writes:
>
>
> > hmmmmm one thing.... how goooooddddd would Natalie
> > Portman be as Carline? :D *LOL* ok I shut up now :)
> >
> > Matt
> >
>
> Not a bad idea....she fits the profile.
>
>                                                        Peace,
>								Matt
> "Lets Roll."- Todd Beamer
> USA, Muthafacko!
>
>



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From: "Andy Bradley" <dark_elf@btinternet.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Language & Midkemia, (was RE: Tolkien)
Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 08:54:34 +0100
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Andy Bradley" <dark_elf@btinternet.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Language & Midkemia, (was RE: Tolkien)
Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 08:54:34 +0100
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Perhaps,

Most people seem to forget that Britain (using the Latin word), was part
of the Roman Empire until 350-400AD! Many place names (Colchester to
quote a good example) are Latin place names. A great many common names
(such as "Andrew") are Latin. The influence Latin had on the English
language mostly came later though the sciences, but the influence is
still there from a much earlier period. 

~Andy

-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Craig J. Ries
>Sent: 18 May 2002 02:33
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: Re: Language & Midkemia, (was RE: Tolkien)
>
>James Young wrote:
>> 
>> English remains a language that is bound and determined to absorb bits
>> and pieces of other languages, but the structure is still Germanic!
>
>Probably mistook the fact that English has absorbed alot of Latin as
>well due to science and such.
>
>Craig J. Ries
>


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Subject: Re: A lot of questions
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 01:06:08 -0700
Subject: Re: A lot of questions
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Friday, May 17, 2002, at 06:34 PM, Craig J. Ries wrote:

> Raymond Feist wrote:
>>
>> Magician was my first work.  But I was writing since the 2nd grade.
>
> I don't believe this was covered in the FAQ:
>
> Many authors have to write and write for years, collect stacks of
> rejection letters and whatnot, before finally seeing something
> published, much less be successful.
>
> Did you have to shop Magician around awhile, collecting rejection
> letters?
>
>

Only one, from Warner Books.  Doubleday was the 2nd publisher to look at 
it.

Best,R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Language
Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 03:25:19 -0500
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    No.  Latin did not become much of an influence until much later
predominately because the Roman Empire Fell during the time that the
Angles and Saxons moved from Germanic Areas to Britannia.  The
influence there is very minimal at best.  Latin was picked up
predominately again starting in the 9th century with the fall of the
last Abbots of the Old Churches and the Influx of the Monistic
Orders of the Catholics.  And was more influential once the fall of
the last Saxon king was assured by William the Conqueror, where he
brought the mix of Norse and French from Normandy and infused the
common English tongue at the time with a healthy dose of Catholicism
and French words.  Remember that the Anglo-Saxons have never had
much truck with the Catholic church and a lot of that had to do with
the fact they had an established church for 400 years in the land
they had invaded, and it took another 600 to decimate it completely.
Latin was not used in those churches, nor by the people there
abbots, except in a few places used by the Romans, Britannia was
fortified, but not as completely dominated by the Romans as people
seem to like to think.  (Though I admit Bath is a good example of
their conquest.)  But it was more or less lost to the Romans by the
time that the Angles and Saxons moved in, and remember when a new
group moves in, the old ways often get tossed.  William the
Conqueror tried that to some extent as well, but was far more
tolerant than most other groups would have been.  Try to remember
that the Romans moved out in 400, the Angles moved in ten years
later.
    As a side note many of those names are Greek in origin not
Latin.  And that has to do with Religious influences not Language.

-James

----- Original Message -----

> Perhaps,
>
> Most people seem to forget that Britain (using the Latin word), was part
> of the Roman Empire until 350-400AD! Many place names (Colchester to
> quote a good example) are Latin place names. A great many common names
> (such as "Andrew") are Latin. The influence Latin had on the English
> language mostly came later though the sciences, but the influence is
> still there from a much earlier period.
>
> ~Andy




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From: "Wouter Durnez" <arutha_of_krondor@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: A lot of questions
Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 09:12:55 +0000
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From: "Wouter Durnez" <arutha_of_krondor@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: A lot of questions
Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 09:12:55 +0000
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So someone like Bill Gates could pretty much buy a whole series, just for 
him? Lucky bastard <g>


>From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: Re: A lot of questions
>Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 18:11:01 -0700
>
>
>On Friday, May 17, 2002, at 01:50 PM, Annelize & Tommy wrote:
>
>>Hello Ray!
>>
>>I've been on the list on and off for several years now, only delurking
>>a few
>>times when my burning desire to ask questions got the better of me. This
>>time around I've got a whole heap of questions for you, hope you'll find
>>time to answer some of them.
>>
>>1. When did the list start?
>
>I have no idea.  Ask Dan, as it's his list.
>>
>>2. Were you on the list from the beginning?
>
>No, but I did come aboard during the first year, if I have it right.
>
>>
>>3. What makes you devote such a large amount of your time to the list,
>>in
>>other words what makes it worth your while?
>
>It's a very effective way to communicate with fans.  For the hundred or
>so active fans, there are many more lurkers, and beyond that, lots of
>collateral impact, as many of those people relay what has been said to
>other readers.
>
>>
>>4. Did you consider writing in an other genre before deciding on
>>fantasy?
>>Are there any plans to write something other than fantasy in the future?
>>
>
>Yes, and yes.  For details, some other time.  I'm a little rushed right
>now.
>
>>5. Are there any unfinished and thus unpublished works preceeding
>>Magician?
>>I find it amazing that you could write such a wonderful first novel
>>without
>>any prior experience with writing fiction.
>
>Magician was my first work.  But I was writing since the 2nd grade.
>
>>
>>6. Have you ever had writer's block?
>
>No.  There are times I don't want to write, but I can always make myself
>write.
>
>>
>>7. Have you rewarded in any way any of the people that created the
>>world of
>>Midkemia with you and helped provide you with inspiration? I realize
>>that
>>you wrote the books and that they are your accomplishment, so you don't
>>owe
>>anyone anything. Hmm, just realized that this is private and really
>>none of
>>my business. Feel free to ignore any and all questions that you consider
>>stupid, rude or ignorant ;-)
>>
>
>It is a private issue.
>
>8. What part of your job do you appreciate the most? Is it the
>satisfaction
>>of handing over a finished book to the publisher, the money, the fans,
>>the
>>pleasure of living in hotels when you do booksignings or something
>>completely different?
>
>Money first.  It allows me to pay the rent and feed my kids.  It's the
>best job I've ever had.  The satisfaction of story telling second.  The
>fans after that.
>
>>
>>9. What is your weirdest experience you've had involving a fan?
>
>One showed up at my doorstep at 7 am on a Sunday morning, with a stack
>of books.  He said he was in town for the week but couldn't be bothered
>to get around any sooner, but I had to sign them right there because he
>had to head to the airport and fly home.  That's when I decided it was
>time for an unlisted phone number and a mail drop.
>
>>
>>10. I realize that you have no influence on the cover art for your
>>books. If
>>however the opposite was true, which artist that has not been used so
>>far on
>>your covers would you like to see used for your future books?
>
>Too many to list.
>
>>
>>11. On an average day, how many pages do you write?
>
>Varies.  I guess the average is maybe 10-15 a day.
>
>>
>>12. What sparked the collaboration with Janny Wurts?
>
>That should be in the FAQ.
>>
>>13. Would you consider writing more books set in the Empire with authors
>>other than Janny Wurts like you're currently doing with Midkemia?
>
>No.  The Empire is done.
>
>>
>>14. Do you get recognized on the streets by fans?
>
>Nope.
>
>>
>>15. Will we ever know more about Winet?
>
>Probably not.
>
>>
>>16. Are you going to write untill you die of a ripe old age, or are you
>>planning to quit at some set point, say $100 million in the bank, when
>>you
>>finish all 5 riftwars, or any other goal?
>
>Writers don't retire. They die. As Bob Silverberg, who's retired twice.
>And he's currently working on another book.
>
>>
>>17. If I win the state lottery, will you write an Empire book just for
>>me if
>>I pay you $10 million? I guess I really should start betting in the said
>>lottery before even asking you that one <bg>
>
>For ten million, you'd have a deal.
>>
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
>stupidity.
>




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From: "Michelle Thomson" <chell_40@hotmail.com>
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Subject: 20th Annaversary Magician
Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 10:28:59 +0000
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From: "Michelle Thomson" <chell_40@hotmail.com>
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Subject: 20th Annaversary Magician
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Ray,

Has the 20th Annaversary Edition of Magician got anything new in it or is it 
just the revised edition in a fancy new hard back cover???

Michelle

(Excited at the prospect of something new, but will be just as happy to read 
the other two new books when they come out)



_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com



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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: Al Burrell <al.burl@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: Re: family tree
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Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 11:33:18 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: Al Burrell <al.burl@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: Re: family tree
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I believe Sylvain (sorry if I misspelled) did a very excellent family tree, 
although I have lost the link.

Al

At 12:34 18/05/2002 +1000, Greg Bulloch wrote:
>i was wondering if some talented fan would be interested in creating a 
>family tree most likely just conDoin and maybe Jameson but i think it 
>would make it easier for people to understand who was whos son etc
>would you approve of this Mr Feist?
>it would just be a small project
>but maybe there is one in exsistence?
>any feedback would be appreciated
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com



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From: Caranorn Aglaredhel <caranorn@cmdnet.lu>
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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Language & Midkemia, (was RE: Tolkien)
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

The term Britain is either Greek or Phoenician in origin, not Latin 
(Roman). Modern place names are at best bastardised Latin. Latin as a 
language disapeared in Britain with the disintegration of the Empire and 
retreat of the romano-celtic people into more remote areas. It only 
reappeared several centuries later with the Christianisation of the 
Anglo-Saxon peoples (by Romanic Christians vs. the Irish).

As to names, many may have been imported into English through the 
romano-celtic tribes. Whether their origins are Latin or Celtic is 
another issue.

Marc aka Caran... neither a linguist nor a specialist of British 
history, though I obviously meddled a bit in both

Andy Bradley wrote:

>Perhaps,
>
>Most people seem to forget that Britain (using the Latin word), was part
>of the Roman Empire until 350-400AD! Many place names (Colchester to
>quote a good example) are Latin place names. A great many common names
>(such as "Andrew") are Latin. The influence Latin had on the English
>language mostly came later though the sciences, but the influence is
>still there from a much earlier period. 
>
>~Andy
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Craig J. Ries
>Sent: 18 May 2002 02:33
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: Re: Language & Midkemia, (was RE: Tolkien)
>
>James Young wrote:
>
>>English remains a language that is bound and determined to absorb bits
>>and pieces of other languages, but the structure is still Germanic!
>>
>
>Probably mistook the fact that English has absorbed alot of Latin as
>well due to science and such.
>
>Craig J. Ries
>
>




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From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
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Subject: Re: Language
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From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Language
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>     No.  Latin did not become much of an influence until much later
> predominately because the Roman Empire Fell during the time that the
> Angles and Saxons moved from Germanic Areas to Britannia.  The
> influence there is very minimal at best.  Latin was picked up
> predominately again starting in the 9th century with the fall of the
> last Abbots of the Old Churches and the Influx of the Monistic
> Orders of the Catholics.  And was more influential once the fall of
> the last Saxon king was assured by William the Conqueror, where he
> brought the mix of Norse and French from Normandy and infused the
> common English tongue at the time with a healthy dose of Catholicism
> and French words.

The Norse influence was already prevalent in the British Isle's prior to
the Norman conquest, with the settling of Vikings in the Danelaw.

Also, note, the monasticism had infiltrated England as early as the
7th cenutry (IIRC Bede's "Ecclesiatical History of the English People" was
composed around 731 CE). I included this just a side note...I realise you
mean "catholic monastic orders"

> Remember that the Anglo-Saxons have never had
> much truck with the Catholic church and a lot of that had to do with
> the fact they had an established church for 400 years in the land
> they had invaded, and it took another 600 to decimate it completely.
> Latin was not used in those churches, nor by the people there
> abbots, except in a few places used by the Romans, Britannia was
> fortified, but not as completely dominated by the Romans as people
> seem to like to think.  (Though I admit Bath is a good example of
> their conquest.)  But it was more or less lost to the Romans by the
> time that the Angles and Saxons moved in, and remember when a new
> group moves in, the old ways often get tossed.  William the
> Conqueror tried that to some extent as well, but was far more
> tolerant than most other groups would have been.  Try to remember
> that the Romans moved out in 400, the Angles moved in ten years
> later.
>     As a side note many of those names are Greek in origin not
> Latin.  And that has to do with Religious influences not Language.
> -James

And many are also Norse...(many placenames of the original Danelaw, still
exist today)

> > of the Roman Empire until 350-400AD! Many place names (Colchester
> to
> > quote a good example) are Latin place names. A great many common
> names
> > (such as "Andrew") are Latin. The influence Latin had on the
> English
> > language mostly came later though the sciences, but the influence
> is
> > still there from a much earlier period.
> >
> > ~Andy
>
>
>

Thanks
Darragh
================================================
University of Queensland
Information Technology / Arts (History) student
[Email #1] s356179@student.uq.edu.au
[Email #2] squik@solutionone.com.au
[Web Site] http://hainsworth.ath.cx/~squik/
================================================



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Subject: Very OT : Visiting California
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From: "-maniax-" <maniax@firetrack.demon.co.uk>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Very OT : Visiting California
Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 14:04:28 +0100
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Hi Folks

I'm visiting California at the end of June, flying into LA on the 14th and
out of San Francisco on the 29th.

Although I've already got a list of things I want to do such as...

A Studio tour or two
A theme park or two
Manns Chinese theatre
Visit Alcatraz
Drive across the Golden Gate bridge
Drive down that rediculously twisty road in SF
etc
etc

I was hoping some of the members of the list could make a few suggestions
for things that may be a bit more off the beaten track or less touristy

Reply off list if this subject is too far OT

Thanks

-maniax-



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Subject: Re: Language
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Enough of this!!(Languages)Noone cares and if you few that do want to keep it 
up, do so off list.


Thanks :)



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Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 09:38:22 -0600
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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Book Tours
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 09:38:22 -0600
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Book Tours
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Darragh Murray wrote:
> 
> I'd assume that to get a "bestseller" you have to sell lots of books...so
> wouldn't being on tour to become a "bestselling" author logically indicate
> you're on tour to sell books?

Yes, I thought the same thing.
Unfortunately, the Wizards of the Coast are screwing with their website,
so I can't hunt through the archives at the moment for the specific
e-mails she sent on the topic.

It's kinda comparable to movies and their opening weekends. You want
everybody to go see the movie that first weekend to make as much money
as possible. The more you make, the more likely that word gets around
and people will want to see it in the following weeks.

The idea seems to be to sell lots of books in a short span of time to
attract attention, instead of over a long period of time.

Craig J. Ries



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Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 09:32:38 -0700
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Subject: Re: Very OT : Visiting California
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 09:32:38 -0700
From: Carl Dershem <dershem@cox.net>
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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Very OT : Visiting California
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-maniax- wrote:

 > Hi Folks
 >
 > I'm visiting California at the end of June, flying into LA on the
 > 14th and out of San Francisco on the 29th.
 >
 > Although I've already got a list of things I want to do such as...
 >
 > A Studio tour or two


If you do Universal, you've pertty much done the "studio tour" schtick,
as the others are very similar, and not quite as practiced.


 > A theme park or two


Disneyland is to theme parks as Universal is to studio tours.


 > Manns Chinese theatre


Just walking down Hollywood Boulevard (which Mann's is on) will change
your opinion of Hollywood.  It isn't very glamorous any more.


 > Visit Alcatraz


Always interesting.


 > Drive across the Golden Gate bridge


Best to be a passenger there, as you can gawk.


 > Drive down that rediculously twisty road in SF


Lombard Street.


 > etc etc
 >
 > I was hoping some of the members of the list could make a few
 > suggestions for things that may be a bit more off the beaten track
 > or less touristy


Ghirardelli Square and Fisherman's Wharf in SF are also somewhat
touristy, but enjoyable.


 > Reply off list if this subject is too far OT
 >
 > Thanks
 >
 > -maniax-


So much depends on your personal preferences.  F'rinstance, there are 
interesting bookstores in the bay area, including "a change of Hobbit" 
in Oakland or Berkeley.  There are loads of museums.  There's the Queen 
Mary in Long Beach (southern LA).  There's Griffith Park and the 
Hollywood Bowl.  There are the missions that dot California.  There are 
wineries - not as many as in the north, admittedly - that stratch 
between SF and LA.  What you see depends on what you like to see - 
California has it all!

All of the above is just the opinion of one who has lived his entire 45 
years in California, except for a few years overseas in the military.

Enjoy!

cd
-- 
Death to all Absolutists!



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Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 10:30:50 -0700
Subject: Re: A lot of questions
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 10:30:50 -0700
Subject: Re: A lot of questions
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On Friday, May 17, 2002, at 07:48 PM, Gkhd11a@aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 5/17/02 8:39:49 PM Central Daylight Time, 
> cries@yifan.net writes:
>
>
> Raymond Feist wrote:
> >
> > Magician was my first work.  But I was writing since the 2nd grade.
>
> I don't believe this was covered in the FAQ:
>
> Many authors have to write and write for years, collect stacks of
> rejection letters and whatnot, before finally seeing something
> published, much less be successful.
>
> Did you have to shop Magician around awhile, collecting rejection
> letters?
>
> Craig J. Ries
>
>
>
>       What I would like to know is how much of what kind of writing 
> where you doing.  And did you have any formal education in writing, or 
> an english major in college?  I know you wrote a little bit of fantasy 
> as short stories, but I get the idea that it was just to get a few 
> laughes from your freinds and pass the time.

I was a communications arts major in college, and only wrote for 
grades.  But that's when I discovered I was a decent writer, as I got 
A's all the time.

I never tried to write serious fiction until I started Magician.

Best, R.E>F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.

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Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 10:33:00 -0700
Subject: Re: 20th Annaversary Magician
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 10:33:00 -0700
Subject: Re: 20th Annaversary Magician
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On Saturday, May 18, 2002, at 03:28 AM, Michelle Thomson wrote:

> Ray,
>
> Has the 20th Annaversary Edition of Magician got anything new in it or 
> is it just the revised edition in a fancy new hard back cover???
>
>

Just a few words from me and a couple of illustrations (which may just 
be for the leather bound edition--I don't know).

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 10:31:54 -0700
Subject: Re: Book Tours
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 10:31:54 -0700
Subject: Re: Book Tours
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On Friday, May 17, 2002, at 11:17 PM, Darragh Murray wrote:

>>> Ray, obviously books tours are about promotion and raising book sales
>>> etc. Are they successful in the direct sense, i.e. do they push up
>>> sales?  I have often wondered, as they come across as simply hard 
>>> work.
>> Margaret Weis said recently, with regards to her upcoming semi-tour for
>> Dragons of a Vanished Moon, that a book tour was to not sell books, but
>> to get the book on bestseller lists, such as New York Times.
>
> I'd assume that to get a "bestseller" you have to sell lots of 
> books...so
> wouldn't being on tour to become a "bestselling" author logically 
> indicate
> you're on tour to sell books?
>
>

Tours are to build "buzz" in the booksellers, and it's an ego 
gratification thing for many bookstore managers to land a major writer 
at their store.

It doesn't move that many books directly, but it keeps the work visible 
for days beyond the actual appearance.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Subject: Raybegone
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 10:33:56 -0700
Subject: Raybegone
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: fEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Heading to Las Vegas for my friend Ray McKnow's batchlor party (he ties 
the knot in two weeks).

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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From: Joel Rosenberg <joelr@ellegon.com>
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From: Joel Rosenberg <joelr@ellegon.com>
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Raybegone
Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 12:47:38 -0500
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On Saturday 18 May 2002 12:33 pm, Raymond Feist wrote:
> Heading to Las Vegas for my friend Ray McKnow's batchlor party (he ties
> the knot in two weeks).
>
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
>
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
> stupidity.

Have a great time...



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From: "Wouter Durnez" <arutha_of_krondor@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Soldier of Fortune 2 (no, not about the game, don't worry ;))
Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 18:14:31 +0000
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From: "Wouter Durnez" <arutha_of_krondor@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Soldier of Fortune 2 (no, not about the game, don't worry ;))
Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 18:14:31 +0000
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So I'm playing the multiplayer beta of SoF2, my name ofcourse being Arutha, 
and who do I meet? Silverthorn. What a strange coincidence eh? Next I meet 
Gorath, some Dutch guy that has the nerve to shoot my head off! But a few 
minutes later Gorath gets his but kicked by Nakor!
Now I'm wondering if Ray is really so well-known among gamers, but it sure 
is cool :)

_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com



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Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 20:35:44 +0200
From: Caranorn Aglaredhel <caranorn@cmdnet.lu>
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Organization: House Phoenix
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Subject: Re: Soldier of Fortune 2 (no, not about the game, don't worry ;))
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

It's one of the most annoying things in multi player games, all those 
folk naming themselves after fantasy novels. I think the day when I 
found a Pug in GSIII I still found it funny, but over time it has become 
pretty annoying to see Milamber, Aviendah, Elminster, Caracarn and many 
others adventuring (quite a few of those folk actually became friends 
after a while, but I wish they had taken a second to find a name all of 
their own).

Over time I have also started to wonder whether I knew names from a book 
or from some multi player game. That means I think I know a player when 
he/she is really using a character name from some book I read. Or I get 
confused reading about a particular character in a book after meeting a 
plyer naming him/herself that.

Marc aka Caran...

Wouter Durnez wrote:

> So I'm playing the multiplayer beta of SoF2, my name ofcourse being 
> Arutha, and who do I meet? Silverthorn. What a strange coincidence eh? 
> Next I meet Gorath, some Dutch guy that has the nerve to shoot my head 
> off! But a few minutes later Gorath gets his but kicked by Nakor!
> Now I'm wondering if Ray is really so well-known among gamers, but it 
> sure is cool :)




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From: "Ben Nielson" <ben@hallofworlds.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 14:18:47 -0600
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Subject: Re: family tree
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Ben Nielson" <ben@hallofworlds.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 14:18:47 -0600
Subject: Re: family tree
Priority: normal
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A fairly large Family Tree can be located at Fenix Kell's Lair 
(http://fenyx.kell.free.fr/english/feist.htm)

Or you can just follow this link:
http://fenyx.kell.free.fr/Gfx/midfamly.gif

On 18 May 2002, at 11:33, Al Burrell wrote:

> 
> At 12:34 18/05/2002 +1000, Greg Bulloch wrote:
> >i was wondering if some talented fan would be interested in creating a 
> >family tree most likely just conDoin and maybe Jameson but i think it 
> >would make it easier for people to understand who was whos son etc
> >would you approve of this Mr Feist?
> >it would just be a small project
> >but maybe there is one in exsistence?
> >any feedback would be appreciated
> >
> >_________________________________________________________________
> >Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com
> 
> 



-----
Ben Nielson
The Hall of Worlds - http://feist.hallofworlds.net
"If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, riddle them with arrows."



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Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 12:44:21 -0700 (PDT)
From: Nathan <nathan@irish4ever.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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--- "Ben Nielson" <ben@hallofworlds.net> wrote:
>A fairly large Family Tree can be located at Fenix Kell's Lair 
>(http://fenyx.kell.free.fr/english/feist.htm)
>
>Or you can just follow this link:
>http://fenyx.kell.free.fr/Gfx/midfamly.gif

Who dared to translate proper names???
Emus? Puc? Jimmy as Robbie?! Adelinde (instead of Abigail)?!

INTOLERABLE!

Father Nathan



_____________________________________________________________
Get your Free, Permanent, and Private Irish Email Today!
---------- http://www.irish4ever.com -----------

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Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 16:08:26 EDT
Subject: Re: Soldier of Fortune 2 (no, not about the game, don't worry ;))
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*** EOOH ***
From: Adam012882@cs.com
Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 16:08:26 EDT
Subject: Re: Soldier of Fortune 2 (no, not about the game, don't worry ;))
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

In a message dated 5/18/02 11:21:34 AM Pacific Daylight Time, 
arutha_of_krondor@hotmail.com writes: 
> So I'm playing the multiplayer beta of SoF2, my name ofcourse being Arutha, 
> and who do I meet? Silverthorn. What a strange coincidence eh? Next I meet 
> Gorath, some Dutch guy that has the nerve to shoot my head off! But a few 
> minutes later Gorath gets his but kicked by Nakor!
> Now I'm wondering if Ray is really so well-known among gamers, but it sure 
> is cool :)

I know exactly what you mean. a few months ago i was playing diablo 2 
multiplayer and i named my hero PUG and i was just strting out. So i 
encountered another hero who was familiar with Rays books, and we started 
talking and he was nice enough to give me equipment and gold to help me get 
started.

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Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 16:48:03 EDT
Subject: Re: Soldier of Fortune 2 (no, not about the game, don't worry ;))
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*** EOOH ***
From: RBlackley@aol.com
Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 16:48:03 EDT
Subject: Re: Soldier of Fortune 2 (no, not about the game, don't worry ;))
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

ditto,
richard


> I know exactly what you mean. a few months ago i was playing diablo 2 
> multiplayer and i named my hero PUG and i was just strting out. So i 
> encountered another hero who was familiar with Rays books, and we started 
> talking and he was nice enough to give me equipment and gold to help me get 
> started. 


-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
"We don't want to go back to tomorrow, we want to go forward."
Dan Quayle
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References: <6E19E9A4-6A85-11D6-B5ED-003065A8A644@bittersea.com>
Subject: Re: Raybegone
Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 15:56:27 -0500
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Dennis Groome" <nallix@cox.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Raybegone
Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 15:56:27 -0500
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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-Dennis H. Groome V
ICQ: 11430261 AIM/Yahoo: AmoNympham
Microsoft Messenger: marcus_giovani@hotmail.com


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Raymond Feist" <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: <fEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2002 12:33 PM
Subject: Raybegone


> Heading to Las Vegas for my friend Ray McKnow's batchlor party (he ties 
> the knot in two weeks).
> 
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
>

put $10 on 00 on the roulette wheel for me.



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From: "Michael Gibson" <mike@gibbyco.freeserve.co.uk>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: A lot of questions
Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 23:25:17 +0100
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Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: "Michael Gibson" <mike@gibbyco.freeserve.co.uk>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: A lot of questions
Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 23:25:17 +0100
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

> > 16. Are you going to write untill you die of a ripe old age, or are you
> > planning to quit at some set point, say $100 million in the bank, when
> > you
> > finish all 5 riftwars, or any other goal?
>
> Writers don't retire. They die. As Bob Silverberg, who's retired twice.
> And he's currently working on another book.

Terry Pratchett said the same at a book signing I went to a couple of weeks
back - "Stopping isn't built in".  He went on to say that his last book would
finish up with a whole lot of "t"s, as he calculated that was where his head
would land when he slumped forwards.... ;)

Ray, do you write a short message ascertaining to the book when you sign it?  At
this same signing (the first one I've been to, so I'm not really sure how they
work), I found that Pratchett writes them (such as "Go for the throat" in Carpe
Jugulum, and "Deja Fu" in Thief of Time).

How was the party?

Mike,
Gibfish of the West

"Better to light a candle than to curse the darkness."
Confucius



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From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
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Subject: Re: Soldier of Fortune 2 (no, not about the game, don't worry ;))
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sun, 19 May 2002 09:21:51 +1000 (GMT+1000)
From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Soldier of Fortune 2 (no, not about the game, don't worry ;))
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Now that was an insightful reply.

This is the second such reply from RBlackey in the last 2 or 3 days.

Are you are about the list rules concerning replying?

> ditto,
> richard
> > I know exactly what you mean. a few months ago i was playing diablo 2
> > multiplayer and i named my hero PUG and i was just strting out. So i
> > encountered another hero who was familiar with Rays books, and we started
> > talking and he was nice enough to give me equipment and gold to help me get
> > started.

Thanks
Darragh
================================================
University of Queensland
Information Technology / Arts (History) student
[Email #1] s356179@student.uq.edu.au
[Email #2] squik@solutionone.com.au
[Web Site] http://hainsworth.ath.cx/~squik/
================================================



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Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 20:56:31 EDT
Subject: Re: Soldier of Fortune 2 (no, not about the game, don't worry ;))
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*** EOOH ***
From: RBlackley@aol.com
Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 20:56:31 EDT
Subject: Re: Soldier of Fortune 2 (no, not about the game, don't worry ;))
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Yes you are correct in that assumption.  I previously posted an "I agree" 
followed by this "ditto," I wish to make a formal apoligy to the list and 
will attempt to bleather on and on in all following posts.  <g> sorry, 
Darragh, but I do always copy what I'm responding to and post it below.

Richard


> Now that was an insightful reply.
> 
> This is the second such reply from RBlackey in the last 2 or 3 days.
> 
> Are you are about the list rules concerning replying?
> 
> > ditto,
> > richard
> > > I know exactly what you mean. a few months ago i was playing diablo 2
> > > multiplayer and i named my hero PUG and i was just strting out. So i
> > > encountered another hero who was familiar with Rays books, and we 
> started
> > > talking and he was nice enough to give me equipment and gold to help me 
> get
> > > started.
> 
> Thanks
> Darragh
> 


-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
"We don't want to go back to tomorrow, we want to go forward."
Dan Quayle
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-

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Subject: Re: Raybegone
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From: LDS627@aol.com
Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 22:43:52 EDT
Subject: Re: Raybegone
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Hope he is as lucky as I was. (Won $500 bux at miine).

For those who say what kind of bachelor party is that? Well, after 20 years 
as a naturist and 5 years of planned and deliberate debauchery, who needs 
strippers?

LS

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From: "Terri Lyn Layman" <terrilyn@fullnet.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Very OT : Visiting California
Date: Sun, 19 May 2002 00:10:24 -0500
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*** EOOH ***
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: "Terri Lyn Layman" <terrilyn@fullnet.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Very OT : Visiting California
Date: Sun, 19 May 2002 00:10:24 -0500
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Hate to burst your bubble -maniax-, but as of my last trip out to SF (May
99) they no longer allow people to drive down Lombard without being
residents, as too many wrecks were occouring.

It is still open to pedestrian traffic, however.

-TerriLyn (Who on that trip found out that you should never use a movie to
plan your travels.... Star Trek IV lies about much!)

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Carl Dershem
> Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2002 11:33 AM
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Subject: Re: Very OT : Visiting California
>
>
> -maniax- wrote:
>
<snip>
>
>
>  > Drive down that rediculously twisty road in SF
>
>
> Lombard Street.
>
>
<snip>



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From: "Terri Lyn Layman" <terrilyn@fullnet.com>
To: "FeistList \(E-mail\)" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Slight confusion...
Date: Sun, 19 May 2002 00:23:24 -0500
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*** EOOH ***
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: "Terri Lyn Layman" <terrilyn@fullnet.com>
To: "FeistList \(E-mail\)" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Slight confusion...
Date: Sun, 19 May 2002 00:23:24 -0500
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Ok... I've always been slightly confused as to the exact line
established....

When Borric adopted Pug, was it an adoption in the traditional sense, making
the children of Borric: Martin, Lyam, Arutha, Pug and Carline...

Or was it a more "abstract" adoption, leaving his children intact: M, L, A
and C; with Pug therefore becoming a "cousin" to M, L, A and C?

Another thing that has always been of confusion to me is the "ranks" in the
Kingdom.  I can follow to some extent the following:

King/Queen
Prince/ess

Duke/Duchess
(provincial) Prince/ess

And then there's the matter of Earls, Counts(have there been any?), Barons,
Squires.

Now, I belive that in the current (British) monarchy, the line is
King/Queen, Prince/ess, Duke/Duchess, Count/ess, Earl (what's the complement
to that?), Baron/ess, Squire, Knight.  I also have heard of there being
Lords and Ladies (eg; Diana before marriage) but have no clue on how they
fit in.

Anyone care to enlighten me?
-TerriLyn



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From: JEEPMONSTER69@aol.com
Date: Sun, 19 May 2002 01:43:18 EDT
Subject: London
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I amy be visiting London in a few weeks- do any of our British list members 
have any advice on where to go and where not to go? Its been a while since 
Ive been to your great country.
                       

                                                             Thanks,
                                                                         Matt

"Lets Roll."- Todd Beamer
USA, Muthafacko!

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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 23:41:08 -0600
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Slight confusion...
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Terri Lyn Layman wrote:
> 
> Or was it a more "abstract" adoption, leaving his children intact: M, L, A
> and C; with Pug therefore becoming a "cousin" to M, L, A and C?

IIRC, Pug ended up as a cousin to Borric's children. This still gave him
the rank of Duke, and if necessary a claim to the throne.

Craig J. Ries



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*** EOOH ***
From: "Dennis Groome" <nallix@cox.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Slight confusion...
Date: Sun, 19 May 2002 00:59:36 -0500
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-Dennis H. Groome V
ICQ: 11430261 AIM/Yahoo: AmoNympham
Microsoft Messenger: marcus_giovani@hotmail.com


----- Original Message -----
From: "Terri Lyn Layman" <terrilyn@fullnet.com>
To: "FeistList (E-mail)" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2002 12:23 AM
Subject: Slight confusion...


> Ok... I've always been slightly confused as to the exact line
> established....
>
> When Borric adopted Pug, was it an adoption in the traditional sense, making
> the children of Borric: Martin, Lyam, Arutha, Pug and Carline...
>
> Or was it a more "abstract" adoption, leaving his children intact: M, L, A
> and C; with Pug therefore becoming a "cousin" to M, L, A and C?

Pug is their "cousin" since he share their name.  He doesn't have a claim to
the throne, at least not a concrete one like Martin, Lyam, Arutha or Carline
(or rather her husband) do.



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From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Soldier of Fortune 2 (no, not about the game, don't worry ;))
In-Reply-To: <15d.e1af2d0.2a18523f@aol.com>
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Date: Sun, 19 May 2002 16:11:33 +1000 (GMT+1000)
From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Soldier of Fortune 2 (no, not about the game, don't worry ;))
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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You'd don't have to "blather on"

I work by a general rule, if I can't think of anything insightful or
constructive to post, I don't.

Note: above is in no ways meant to be insulting, just a suggestion.

> Yes you are correct in that assumption.  I previously posted an "I agree"
> followed by this "ditto," I wish to make a formal apoligy to the list and
> will attempt to bleather on and on in all following posts.  <g> sorry,
> Darragh, but I do always copy what I'm responding to and post it below.
>
> Richard
>
>
> > Now that was an insightful reply.
> >
> > This is the second such reply from RBlackey in the last 2 or 3 days.
> >
> > Are you are about the list rules concerning replying?
> >
> > > ditto,
> > > richard
> > > > I know exactly what you mean. a few months ago i was playing diablo 2
> > > > multiplayer and i named my hero PUG and i was just strting out. So i
> > > > encountered another hero who was familiar with Rays books, and we
> > started
> > > > talking and he was nice enough to give me equipment and gold to help me
> > get
> > > > started.
> >
> > Thanks
> > Darragh
> >
>
>
> -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
> "We don't want to go back to tomorrow, we want to go forward."
> Dan Quayle
> -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
>

Thanks
Darragh
================================================
University of Queensland
Information Technology / Arts (History) student
[Email #1] s356179@student.uq.edu.au
[Email #2] squik@solutionone.com.au
[Web Site] http://hainsworth.ath.cx/~squik/
================================================



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From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: "FeistList (E-mail)" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Slight confusion...
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Date: Sun, 19 May 2002 16:15:56 +1000 (GMT+1000)
From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: "FeistList (E-mail)" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Slight confusion...
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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> Ok... I've always been slightly confused as to the exact line
> established....
> When Borric adopted Pug, was it an adoption in the traditional sense, making
> the children of Borric: Martin, Lyam, Arutha, Pug and Carline...
> Or was it a more "abstract" adoption, leaving his children intact: M, L, A
> and C; with Pug therefore becoming a "cousin" to M, L, A and C?

I think, in your temrs, it was a combination. He was formally adopted, but
however could not be considered to be a direct in line for the throne.

> Another thing that has always been of confusion to me is the "ranks" in the
> Kingdom.  I can follow to some extent the following:
>
> King/Queen
> Prince/ess
>
> Duke/Duchess
> (provincial) Prince/ess
>
> And then there's the matter of Earls, Counts(have there been any?), Barons,
> Squires.
>
> Now, I belive that in the current (British) monarchy, the line is
> King/Queen, Prince/ess, Duke/Duchess, Count/ess, Earl (what's the complement
> to that?), Baron/ess, Squire, Knight.  I also have heard of there being
> Lords and Ladies (eg; Diana before marriage) but have no clue on how they
> fit in.
> Anyone care to enlighten me?
> -TerriLyn


Not exactly sure, but  I think you've got it pretty much right. However in
regard to "lords and ladies" don't think they are formal "ranks" however
general terms to describe nobles.

 Thanks
Darragh
================================================
University of Queensland
Information Technology / Arts (History) student
[Email #1] s356179@student.uq.edu.au
[Email #2] squik@solutionone.com.au
[Web Site] http://hainsworth.ath.cx/~squik/
================================================



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From: "Terri Lyn Layman" <terrilyn@fullnet.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Slight confusion...
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From: "Terri Lyn Layman" <terrilyn@fullnet.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Slight confusion...
Date: Sun, 19 May 2002 01:11:50 -0500
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IIRC, Laurie was not of noble birth, nor adopted into any royal house.

Carline could be Queen, but then Laurie would be Queen-consort or some such
similar to the current arrangement in England I belive.

-TerriLyn

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Dennis Groome
> Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2002 1:00 AM
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Subject: Re: Slight confusion...
<snip>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Terri Lyn Layman" <terrilyn@fullnet.com>
> To: "FeistList (E-mail)" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2002 12:23 AM
> Subject: Slight confusion...
>
>
> > Ok... I've always been slightly confused as to the exact line
> > established....
> >
> > When Borric adopted Pug, was it an adoption in the
> traditional sense,
> making
> > the children of Borric: Martin, Lyam, Arutha, Pug and Carline...
> >
> > Or was it a more "abstract" adoption, leaving his children
> intact: M, L, A
> > and C; with Pug therefore becoming a "cousin" to M, L, A and C?
>
> Pug is their "cousin" since he share their name.  He doesn't
> have a claim to
> the throne, at least not a concrete one like Martin, Lyam,
> Arutha or Carline
> (or rather her husband) do.



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From: Nathan <nathan@irish4ever.com>
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--- "Terri Lyn Layman" <terrilyn@fullnet.com> wrote:

[cut]
>And then there's the matter of Earls, Counts(have there been any?), Barons, Squires.
[cut]

There was Count Corvalis from Cavall Keep in "Betrayal at Krondor". He
was Owyn's uncle and Ugyne's father. But IIRC he mysteriously turned
to Baron (or maybe Earl?) Corvallis from Cavell Keep in "Krondor - The
Betrayal".

Father Nathan




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From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Slight confusion...
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sun, 19 May 2002 20:34:28 +1000 (GMT+1000)
From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Slight confusion...
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

> IIRC, Laurie was not of noble birth, nor adopted into any royal house.
> Carline could be Queen, but then Laurie would be Queen-consort or some such
> similar to the current arrangement in England I belive.
> -TerriLyn

Or rather, "Prince Consort".

I wonder, is Anita's claim to the throne (in terms of Magician) stronger
than Carline's?


> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Dennis Groome
> > Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2002 1:00 AM
> > To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > Subject: Re: Slight confusion...
> <snip>
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Terri Lyn Layman" <terrilyn@fullnet.com>
> > To: "FeistList (E-mail)" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> > Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2002 12:23 AM
> > Subject: Slight confusion...
> >
> >
> > > Ok... I've always been slightly confused as to the exact line
> > > established....
> > >
> > > When Borric adopted Pug, was it an adoption in the
> > traditional sense,
> > making
> > > the children of Borric: Martin, Lyam, Arutha, Pug and Carline...
> > >
> > > Or was it a more "abstract" adoption, leaving his children
> > intact: M, L, A
> > > and C; with Pug therefore becoming a "cousin" to M, L, A and C?
> >
> > Pug is their "cousin" since he share their name.  He doesn't
> > have a claim to
> > the throne, at least not a concrete one like Martin, Lyam,
> > Arutha or Carline
> > (or rather her husband) do.
>
>

Thanks
Darragh
================================================
University of Queensland
Information Technology / Arts (History) student
[Email #1] s356179@student.uq.edu.au
[Email #2] squik@solutionone.com.au
[Web Site] http://hainsworth.ath.cx/~squik/
================================================



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>From: JEEPMONSTER69@aol.com
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2002 6:43 AM
>Subject: London
>I amy be visiting London in a few weeks- do any of our British list members
>have any advice on where to go and where not to go? Its been a while since
>Ive been to your great country.
>Thanks,
>Matt


If you want some seriously good advice, try and visit somewhere *OUTSIDE* of
London - even if it's only for a couple of days.
There's far far more to the UK than just London. Don't make the mistake of
just seeing London only.

Mark ;-)



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Can anyone out there point me in the correect direction for the FAQ?



_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.



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Subject: Re: Soldier of Fortune 2 (no, not about the game, don't worry ;))
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Subject: Re: Soldier of Fortune 2 (no, not about the game, don't worry ;))
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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I understand that.  While I feel that you are a little picky at picking this 
up, I agree that I was at fault.  Sorry about that.

Richard

> You'd don't have to "blather on"
> 
> I work by a general rule, if I can't think of anything insightful or
> constructive to post, I don't.
> 
> Note: above is in no ways meant to be insulting, just a suggestion.
> 
> > Yes you are correct in that assumption.  I previously posted an "I agree"
> > followed by this "ditto," I wish to make a formal apoligy to the list and
> > will attempt to bleather on and on in all following posts.  <g> sorry,
> > Darragh, but I do always copy what I'm responding to and post it below.
> >
> > Richard


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From: "The Eternal Sorceror" <bobkelly24@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Subtle References
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As I was reading Magician again I noticed something that I had failed to 
pick up on other times. In chapter 21-Changeling-when Macros shows up in 
Elvadar and is shown up to the Queens Court he says to Tomas his plan to 
capture a Black Robe will bring destruction to Elvandar without his help, he 
adds "A Black Robe you shall have in time but not yet"

This is obviously a subtle reference to Pugs training on the Tsurani home 
world of Kelewan to become a Great One/Black Robe

I was wondering if anyone else had noticed this or any other subtle 
references like this while reading Rays work.

_________________________________________________________________
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www.psihawk.com/feist


>
> Can anyone out there point me in the correect direction for the FAQ?
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.
>
>

Thanks
Darragh
================================================
University of Queensland
Information Technology / Arts (History) student
[Email #1] s356179@student.uq.edu.au
[Email #2] squik@solutionone.com.au
[Web Site] http://hainsworth.ath.cx/~squik/
================================================



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Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 00:01:29 +1000 (GMT+1000)
From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Subtle References
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> As I was reading Magician again I noticed something that I had failed to
> pick up on other times. In chapter 21-Changeling-when Macros shows up in
> Elvadar and is shown up to the Queens Court he says to Tomas his plan to
> capture a Black Robe will bring destruction to Elvandar without his help, he
> adds "A Black Robe you shall have in time but not yet"
> This is obviously a subtle reference to Pugs training on the Tsurani home
> world of Kelewan to become a Great One/Black Robe
> I was wondering if anyone else had noticed this or any other subtle
> references like this while reading Rays work.

I remember that bit, but I can't remember this - was there any reasoning
behind Macros's statement - like how would capturing a black robe destroy
Elvandar? Or do we just have to assume that Macros has forseen this and
that is whats going to happen (but Macros does not necessarily know why)?

Thanks
Darragh
================================================
University of Queensland
Information Technology / Arts (History) student
[Email #1] s356179@student.uq.edu.au
[Email #2] squik@solutionone.com.au
[Web Site] http://hainsworth.ath.cx/~squik/
================================================



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Subject: Re: Subtle References
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From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Subtle References
Date: Sun, 19 May 2002 09:16:10 -0500
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There are a fair number of them throughout.  Ray doesn't seem to
like excessive plot twists and turns like some authors, nor numerous
side plots, but he does do his fair share of foreshadowing and
intricacy with the plot itself.

-James

----- Original Message -----
From: "The Eternal Sorceror" <bobkelly24@hotmail.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2002 8:35 AM
Subject: Subtle References


>
>
> As I was reading Magician again I noticed something that I had failed to
> pick up on other times. In chapter 21-Changeling-when Macros shows up in
> Elvadar and is shown up to the Queens Court he says to Tomas his plan to
> capture a Black Robe will bring destruction to Elvandar without his help, he
> adds "A Black Robe you shall have in time but not yet"
>
> This is obviously a subtle reference to Pugs training on the Tsurani home
> world of Kelewan to become a Great One/Black Robe
>
> I was wondering if anyone else had noticed this or any other subtle
> references like this while reading Rays work.
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.
>



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Subject: Re: 20th Annaversary Magician
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From: "Mark Tonkin" <shadowfire@chariot.net.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: 20th Annaversary Magician
Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 00:04:14 +0930
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Raymond Feist" <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2002 3:03 AM
Subject: Re: 20th Annaversary Magician


>
> On Saturday, May 18, 2002, at 03:28 AM, Michelle Thomson wrote:
>
> > Ray,
> >
> > Has the 20th Annaversary Edition of Magician got anything new in it or
> > is it just the revised edition in a fancy new hard back cover???
> >
> Just a few words from me and a couple of illustrations (which may just
> be for the leather bound edition--I don't know).
>
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----

I didn't realise that we were going to get a leather bound edition.  I
remember the discussion and survey about a year ago but thought that it
didn't convince the publishers.  Does anybody have any more information on
this - how much it may cost, where it will be available, etc?  I would be
very interested in knowing and would love to get a Leather bound edition of
Magician signed by the Author himself when he is in Australia in September
...

- MARK



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From: "Volker Stephens" <volker@bigpond.net.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: re slight confusion (is Fw: OT English peerage defined (was RE: Dukes, Barons, etc.))
Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 00:31:07 +1000
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From: "Volker Stephens" <volker@bigpond.net.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: re slight confusion (is Fw: OT English peerage defined (was RE: Dukes, Barons, etc.))
Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 00:31:07 +1000
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Amazing what one can dig up from the Archives.
It doesn't answer the question of Pug but it might help.

Volker.

> Original message from: Mark Bevan <mark.bevan@argonaut.com>
> >
> >An Earl administers(d) a county E.g. the Earl of Suffolk. A Viscount
> >is(was) his deputy. Below is a list of the peerage in order of rank. 
> >
> >
> >The Sovereign, Queen Elizabeth II. 
> >The Prince Philip, Duke of Edinburgh. 
> >The Prince of Wales. 
> >Archbishop of Canterbury. 
> >Lord High Chancellor. 
> >Archbishop of York. 
> >The Prime Minister. 
> >Ambassadors and High Commissioners. 
> >Dukes. 
> >Ministers and Envoys. 
> >Eldest sons of Dukes of Blood Royal. 
> >Marquesses. 
> >Dukes' eldest sons 
> >Earls. 
> >Marquesses' eldest sons. 
> >Viscounts. 
> >Earls' eldest sons. 
> >Bishops of London, Durham and Winchester. 
> >Other English Bishops. 
> >Secretaries of State, if of the degree of Baron. 
> >Barons. 
> >Viscounts' eldest sons. 
> >Knights of the Garter. 
> >Privy Counsellors. 
> >Chancellor of the Exchequer. 
> >Lord Chief Justice of England. 
> >Master of the Roll. 
> >Lords Justices of Appeal. 
> >Judges of the High Court. 
> >Sons of Life Peers. 
> >Baronets. 
> >Knights of the Thistle. 
> >Members of the Order of Merit. 
> >Knights Grand ... etc. 
> >Knights Commanders ... etc. 
> >Knights Bachelor. 
> >Official Referees of the Supreme Court. 
> >Circuit Judges. 
> >Commanders of the British Empire. 
> >Officers of the British Empire. 
> >Baronet's eldest sons. 
> >Members of the British Empire. 
> >Navel, Military, Air and other Esquires by office.
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Raymond E. Feist [SMTP:raymond@BITTERSEA.COM]
> > Sent: Thursday, March 04, 1999 3:23 PM
> > To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > Cc: 'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'
> > Subject: RE: Dukes, Barons, etc.
> >
> > At 6:30 PM -0800 3/3/99, John Angus Boland wrote:
> > >I am also interested in this sort of thing. Where do Count and
> >Viscount
> > >enter this list.
> > >
> >
> >
> > In the Kingdom, they don't.  I just didn't use them to keep
> >things simple.
> > In real life, a Count is the French/Italian/German/etc.
> >equivalent of an
> > English Earl (the wife of an Earl is a Countess) and the title
> >doesn't
> > exist in England.  Viscount (prounced Vy-count in English) does
> >exist in
> > England.  I'm vague on if it's a landed title or a court title,
> >and I'm
> > sure one of our British members can so inform us.
> >
> > Best, R.E.F.
> >
> >
> > -----
> >
> > Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained
> >away by
> > stupidity.
> >
> >---------------------------------------------------------------------
> ----
> >



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From: "Michael Gibson" <mike@gibbyco.freeserve.co.uk>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Subtle References
Date: Sun, 19 May 2002 18:47:17 +0100
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From: "Michael Gibson" <mike@gibbyco.freeserve.co.uk>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Subtle References
Date: Sun, 19 May 2002 18:47:17 +0100
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

> > As I was reading Magician again I noticed something that I had failed to
> > pick up on other times. In chapter 21-Changeling-when Macros shows up in
> > Elvadar and is shown up to the Queens Court he says to Tomas his plan to
> > capture a Black Robe will bring destruction to Elvandar without his help, he
> > adds "A Black Robe you shall have in time but not yet"
> > This is obviously a subtle reference to Pugs training on the Tsurani home
> > world of Kelewan to become a Great One/Black Robe
> > I was wondering if anyone else had noticed this or any other subtle
> > references like this while reading Rays work.
>
> I remember that bit, but I can't remember this - was there any reasoning
> behind Macros's statement - like how would capturing a black robe destroy
> Elvandar? Or do we just have to assume that Macros has forseen this and
> that is whats going to happen (but Macros does not necessarily know why)?

I guess it was meant that they'd either goof the attempt, or doing so might
provoke a reaction from more than just the Alliance for War - more Black Robes
(or was it the party for War?).  Or that the Tsurani in the field would turn
their attention westwards.

Mike,
Gibfish of the West

"I hate odd weeks, and don't get me started on Tuesdays..."



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From: "Terri Lyn Layman" <terrilyn@fullnet.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Slight confusion...
Date: Sun, 19 May 2002 15:30:10 -0500
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From: "Terri Lyn Layman" <terrilyn@fullnet.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Slight confusion...
Date: Sun, 19 May 2002 15:30:10 -0500
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Darragh Murray
> Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2002 5:34 AM
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Subject: RE: Slight confusion...
>
>
> > IIRC, Laurie was not of noble birth, nor adopted into any
> royal house.
> > Carline could be Queen, but then Laurie would be
> Queen-consort or some such
> > similar to the current arrangement in England I belive.
> > -TerriLyn
>
> Or rather, "Prince Consort".
>
> I wonder, is Anita's claim to the throne (in terms of
> Magician) stronger
> than Carline's?
>
>
<snip>

Well, again using the British System as an example: (Any UK'ers can fix
this.)
Elizabeth is Queen, her husband is Prince Consort
The Heirs are, in order:
* Prince Charles (Camilla would then be his Consort if they are allowed to
marry)
* Prince William
* Prince Harry
* (Now, Anne the Princess Royal and her Children would usually fall into
place here, but for some reason, I've not heard that they are in line.  I
don't know if it was because of her divorce and remarriage or what.)
* Prince Andrew (Sarah would be his Queen if they get off their butts and
remarry.. quit hinting at things dangit!)
* Princess Beatrice
* Princess Eugenie
* Prince Edward and his wife, Sophie
* Their Children, if any.

Ergo, in Midkemia:^
* Lyam and his wife (I always forget her name).
	Their children
* Arutha and Anita
	Their Children
* Carline and Laurie
	Their Children

^ Martin abdicated his rights, and Pug presumably has none to the throne,
not that he wants any... he's too busy running StarDock and keeping Miranda
out of trouble!

So, yeah.. I'd say that in general, Anita has a stronger claim on the throne
than Carline via marriage.  On her own however, I'd say not.

-TerriLyn



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Michael Gibson wrote:

>>>As I was reading Magician again I noticed something that I had failed to
>>>pick up on other times. In chapter 21-Changeling-when Macros shows up in
>>>Elvadar and is shown up to the Queens Court he says to Tomas his plan to
>>>capture a Black Robe will bring destruction to Elvandar without his help, he
>>>adds "A Black Robe you shall have in time but not yet"
>>>This is obviously a subtle reference to Pugs training on the Tsurani home
>>>world of Kelewan to become a Great One/Black Robe
>>>I was wondering if anyone else had noticed this or any other subtle
>>>references like this while reading Rays work.
>>>
>>I remember that bit, but I can't remember this - was there any reasoning
>>behind Macros's statement - like how would capturing a black robe destroy
>>Elvandar? Or do we just have to assume that Macros has forseen this and
>>that is whats going to happen (but Macros does not necessarily know why)?
>>
> 
> I guess it was meant that they'd either goof the attempt, or doing so might
> provoke a reaction from more than just the Alliance for War - more Black Robes
> (or was it the party for War?).  Or that the Tsurani in the field would turn
> their attention westwards.


If they had that much trouble with just the few black robes they faced, 
imagine the trouble the entire empire could have caused!

cd
-- 
Death to all Absolutists!



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To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
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The Black Robes are the highest authority on Kelewan short of the
Emperor. If they learned the elves of Elvandar had captured one of their
brotherhood, then they could quite easily have commanded every house of
the Empire into the war. Midkemia would have been utterly destroyed.

~Andy


-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Michael Gibson
>Sent: 19 May 2002 18:47
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: RE: Subtle References
>
>> > As I was reading Magician again I noticed something that I had failed to
>> > pick up on other times. In chapter 21-Changeling-when Macros shows up in
>> > Elvadar and is shown up to the Queens Court he says to Tomas his plan to
>> > capture a Black Robe will bring destruction to Elvandar without his help, he
>> > adds "A Black Robe you shall have in time but not yet"
>> > This is obviously a subtle reference to Pugs training on the Tsurani home
>> > world of Kelewan to become a Great One/Black Robe
>> > I was wondering if anyone else had noticed this or any other subtle
>> > references like this while reading Rays work.
>>
>> I remember that bit, but I can't remember this - was there any reasoning
>> behind Macros's statement - like how would capturing a black robe destroy
>> Elvandar? Or do we just have to assume that Macros has forseen this and
>> that is whats going to happen (but Macros does not necessarily know why)?
>
>I guess it was meant that they'd either goof the attempt, or doing so might
>provoke a reaction from more than just the Alliance for War - more Black Robes
>(or was it the party for War?).  Or that the Tsurani in the field would turn
>their attention westwards.
>
>Mike,
>Gibfish of the West
>
>"I hate odd weeks, and don't get me started on Tuesdays..."
>


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I think my favorite subtle reference was to the elves under the north pole.

Larry

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From: Ziad El-Hajj <pilgrim@inco.com.lb>
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Darragh Murray wrote:

> I remember that bit, but I can't remember this - was there any reasoning
> behind Macros's statement - like how would capturing a black robe destroy
> Elvandar? Or do we just have to assume that Macros has forseen this and
> that is whats going to happen (but Macros does not necessarily know why)?

SPOILER SPACE













I can think of two possible explanations. Either Macros "knew"
(through his connection with Sarig and Sarig's knowledge) that this
would lead to the destruction of Midkemia.

Or, he lied.

Keep in mind that EVERYTHING Macros has said prior to ROADK is
suspect. Some things were blatant lies (such as his life story),
others may have been more subtle. Only Ray knows for sure, but I for
one would trust Macros's words as much as Tomas's memories of
Ashen-Shugar: they may have some truths to them, but they also carry
their share of falsehood.

Actually I've just thought of a third theory. Remember what
Lims-Kragma says to Pug when he "dies"? Macros made a lot of
assumptions and was sure they were true - but that does NOT make them
true. The best proof of this: he dies.

That's my take on it.

Ziad



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>From: "Terri Lyn Layman" <terrilyn@fullnet.com>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
>Subject: RE: Slight confusion...
>Date: Sun, 19 May 2002 15:30:10 -0500
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Darragh Murray
> > Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2002 5:34 AM
> > To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > Subject: RE: Slight confusion...
> >
> >
> > > IIRC, Laurie was not of noble birth, nor adopted into any
> > royal house.
> > > Carline could be Queen, but then Laurie would be
> > Queen-consort or some such
> > > similar to the current arrangement in England I belive.
> > > -TerriLyn
> >
> > Or rather, "Prince Consort".
> >
> > I wonder, is Anita's claim to the throne (in terms of
> > Magician) stronger
> > than Carline's?
> >
> >
><snip>
>
>Well, again using the British System as an example: (Any UK'ers can fix
>this.)
>Elizabeth is Queen, her husband is Prince Consort
>The Heirs are, in order:
>* Prince Charles (Camilla would then be his Consort if they are allowed to
>marry)
>* Prince William
>* Prince Harry
>* (Now, Anne the Princess Royal and her Children would usually fall into
>place here, but for some reason, I've not heard that they are in line.  I
>don't know if it was because of her divorce and remarriage or what.)
>* Prince Andrew (Sarah would be his Queen if they get off their butts and
>remarry.. quit hinting at things dangit!)
>* Princess Beatrice
>* Princess Eugenie
>* Prince Edward and his wife, Sophie
>* Their Children, if any.
>
>Ergo, in Midkemia:^
>* Lyam and his wife (I always forget her name).
>	Their children
>* Arutha and Anita
>	Their Children
>* Carline and Laurie
>	Their Children
>
>^ Martin abdicated his rights, and Pug presumably has none to the throne,
>not that he wants any... he's too busy running StarDock and keeping Miranda
>out of trouble!
>
>So, yeah.. I'd say that in general, Anita has a stronger claim on the 
>throne
>than Carline via marriage.  On her own however, I'd say not.
>
>-TerriLyn
>
I was under the impression that the Kingdom was a patriarchy, therefore, no 
Queen's on their own.

Also if you go back a couple of generations, you would have found that under 
the English system Anita would have had the stronger claim, through her 
father as in English terms, she would have been Princess Beatrice to Prince 
William.  You tend to forget through the course of the story that Arutha and 
Anita are actually second cousins.

An indication to Carline's inability to gain the throne is shown at the end 
of Magician where only the Con Doin Males present themselves to be 
considered to be the next King. If there could be a female heir, both 
Carline and Anita, surely would have had to put themselves forward for 
consideration.

Just a thought,
Michelle

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Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 00:53:16 +0200
From: Caranorn Aglaredhel <caranorn@cmdnet.lu>
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Organization: House Phoenix
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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Slight confusion...
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

You forget the principle of male lineage. The order of inheritance of 
House Windsor is Elisabeth, Charles, William, Harry, (any daughters) , 
Andrew (and sons followed by daughters), Edward (and sons followed by 
daughters), Anne (followed by sons and daughters), Lissy's sister's 
descendants...

And there are other issues, which for instance could rule out Charles' 
ascent. And maybe some fine day even the Brits will have got sick enough 
of royalty and instore a republic (I also live in a monarchy, so this is 
not meant as criticism;-).

Finally always remember thet nothing in a royal sucession is ever easy 
and that everything can be turned on the head (especially on Midkemi 
where might of arms and magic count as much as descent).

Lastly, of course not all royal or noble inheritances are simply through 
the male line (Plantagenet and it's descent is to the modern Windsors is).

Marc aka Caran... amateur heraldist but in no way lover of nobility an 
outmoded and now useless class

P.S.: On the Anita - Carline matter I would put all my weight behind 
Carline's line, it is very rare that a claim goes back up one level or 
more levels to put it simply. And by the way, Prince Philip is royal too 
being a Mountbatten who are cousins to the Windsors, former kings of 
Greece and descendants of the Prussian kings among others. Albert (Queen 
Victoria's husband) was also Prince consort. The wife of a king of teh 
Plantagenet line on teh otehr hand would always be Queen and require no 
fancy title. Lastly Martin's abdication is not worth the paper it was 
written on, the day his son or descendants wish to claim the throne they 
may. Not even legitimacy would matter in such a case. Always remember in 
ammedieval world the sword is mightier then the pen (unless thrown with 
sufficient force of course).

Terri Lyn Layman wrote:

>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Darragh Murray
>>Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2002 5:34 AM
>>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>>Subject: RE: Slight confusion...
>>
>>
>>>IIRC, Laurie was not of noble birth, nor adopted into any
>>>
>>royal house.
>>
>>>Carline could be Queen, but then Laurie would be
>>>
>>Queen-consort or some such
>>
>>>similar to the current arrangement in England I belive.
>>>-TerriLyn
>>>
>>Or rather, "Prince Consort".
>>
>>I wonder, is Anita's claim to the throne (in terms of
>>Magician) stronger
>>than Carline's?
>>
>>
><snip>
>
>Well, again using the British System as an example: (Any UK'ers can fix
>this.)
>Elizabeth is Queen, her husband is Prince Consort
>The Heirs are, in order:
>* Prince Charles (Camilla would then be his Consort if they are allowed to
>marry)
>* Prince William
>* Prince Harry
>* (Now, Anne the Princess Royal and her Children would usually fall into
>place here, but for some reason, I've not heard that they are in line.  I
>don't know if it was because of her divorce and remarriage or what.)
>* Prince Andrew (Sarah would be his Queen if they get off their butts and
>remarry.. quit hinting at things dangit!)
>* Princess Beatrice
>* Princess Eugenie
>* Prince Edward and his wife, Sophie
>* Their Children, if any.
>
>Ergo, in Midkemia:^
>* Lyam and his wife (I always forget her name).
>	Their children
>* Arutha and Anita
>	Their Children
>* Carline and Laurie
>	Their Children
>
>^ Martin abdicated his rights, and Pug presumably has none to the throne,
>not that he wants any... he's too busy running StarDock and keeping Miranda
>out of trouble!
>
>So, yeah.. I'd say that in general, Anita has a stronger claim on the throne
>than Carline via marriage.  On her own however, I'd say not.
>
>-TerriLyn
>
>



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From: Will Menzies <will.menzies@btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: London
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 00:25:51 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: Will Menzies <will.menzies@btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: London
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

At 01:43 19/05/02 -0400, you wrote:
>I amy be visiting London in a few weeks- do any of our British list 
>members have any advice on where to go and where not to go? Its been a 
>while since Ive been to your great country.
>
>
>                                                             Thanks,
>                                                                         Matt


The last guy was right - the UK has much, much more to offer than 
London.  Foot and Mouth is History - 99% of the countryside is open for you 
to spend your hard earned greenbacks!  Come to Yorkshire!

In London at the moment there are, however, some great things to see.  A 
must is the Science Museum - (near South Kensington Subway Station).  They 
have an exhibition on at the moment on waste and the human body - sounds 
gross, I know, but if you have kids (or are a kid at heart) you will love 
it. - Admission is around $8.  All around this museum are the other great 
museums of the world that happen to be in London, including the Natural 
History Museum and The Victoria and Albert.

Also, visit the Tate Modern on the South Bank - this is free and rivals the 
best modern art galleries New York has to offer.

The real goodie at the moment though is the Millenium Eye - this is the 
worlds biggest ferris wheel - costs around $10 for a 20 minute ride (The 
wheel moves continuously) - for best effect, go on just before sun-down and 
you will see London light up - an experience not to be missed.

For a laugh you could visit The Houses of Parliament where Tony Blair holds 
sway over this not so great Democracy of ours.

Enough for you?  Have fun..... :-)

Will Menzies

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From: "Jeff Weidemann" <jeff@pronto.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Subtle References
Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 13:11:02 +1000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Jeff Weidemann" <jeff@pronto.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Subtle References
Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 13:11:02 +1000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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True enough, the black robes did have the power, but IIRC the assembly
was a political mess and full of in-fighting, decaying from within.  So
its just possible the assembly may have formed a sub-committee to
investigate the possibly of forming a sub-committee... Hmm sound very
government dept. to me. 

-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Andy Bradley
>Sent: Monday, 20 May 2002 7:40 AM
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: RE: Subtle References
>
>
>The Black Robes are the highest authority on Kelewan short of the
>Emperor. If they learned the elves of Elvandar had captured one of their
>brotherhood, then they could quite easily have commanded every house of
>the Empire into the war. Midkemia would have been utterly destroyed.
>
>~Andy
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Michael Gibson
>Sent: 19 May 2002 18:47
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: RE: Subtle References
>
>> > As I was reading Magician again I noticed something that I had failed to
>> > pick up on other times. In chapter 21-Changeling-when Macros shows up in
>> > Elvadar and is shown up to the Queens Court he says to Tomas his plan to
>> > capture a Black Robe will bring destruction to Elvandar without his help, he
>> > adds "A Black Robe you shall have in time but not yet"
>> > This is obviously a subtle reference to Pugs training on the Tsurani home
>> > world of Kelewan to become a Great One/Black Robe
>> > I was wondering if anyone else had noticed this or any other subtle 
>> > references like this while reading Rays work.
>>
>> I remember that bit, but I can't remember this - was there any reasoning
>> behind Macros's statement - like how would capturing a black robe destroy
>> Elvandar? Or do we just have to assume that Macros has forseen this and
>> that is whats going to happen (but Macros does not necessarily know why)?
>
>I guess it was meant that they'd either goof the attempt, or doing so
>might provoke a reaction from more than just the Alliance for War - more
>Black Robes (or was it the party for War?).  Or that the Tsurani in the
>field would turn their attention westwards.
>
>Mike,
>Gibfish of the West
>
>"I hate odd weeks, and don't get me started on Tuesdays..."
>


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Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 04:26:30 +0100
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Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 04:26:30 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: Andrea J Chee <andrea@bloodaxe.com>
Subject: Re: London
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

In article <4d.1e4be5ee.2a189576@aol.com>, JEEPMONSTER69@aol.com writes
>    I amy be visiting London in a few weeks- do any of our British list 
>    members have any advice on where to go and where not to go? Its 
>    been a while since Ive been to your great country. 

Depending on when you'll be here, there may well be some Golden Jubilee
events which interest you:

http://events.goldenjubilee.gov.uk/regional.asp

- ANDREA

-- 
^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^
                  ANDROMEDA - Internet Goddess
<andrea@bloodaxe.com>                    http://www.bloodaxe.com/
Bloodaxe's History Links:   http://www.geocities.com/Athens/5055/
The Loony Bin Archive:               http://www.theloonies.co.uk/



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From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: family tree
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 09:26:41 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: family tree
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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It's a known problem (that the first Dutch editor 
changed all the proper names).  That editor no 
longer works for that publisher.

rip

At 20:44 18/05/2002, you wrote:
>--- "Ben Nielson" <ben@hallofworlds.net> wrote:
>>A fairly large Family Tree can be located at Fenix Kell's Lair 
>>(http://fenyx.kell.free.fr/english/feist.htm)
>>
>>Or you can just follow this link:
>>http://fenyx.kell.free.fr/Gfx/midfamly.gif
>
>Who dared to translate proper names???
>Emus? Puc? Jimmy as Robbie?! Adelinde (instead of Abigail)?!
>
>INTOLERABLE!
>
>Father Nathan
>
>
>
>_____________________________________________________________
>Get your Free, Permanent, and Private Irish Email Today!
>---------- http://www.irish4ever.com -----------
>
>_____________________________________________________________
>Promote your group and strengthen ties to your members with email@yourgroup.org by Everyone.net  http://www.everyone.net/?btn=tag



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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: Language
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 09:27:48 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: Language
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At 14:57 18/05/2002, you wrote:
>Enough of this!!(Languages)Noone cares and if you few that do want to keep it 
>up, do so off list.
>
>
>Thanks :)

Ooh.  Pronoun trouble.  What you meant to say was
"I don't care".  The truth being that you have no
idea how or what the rest of us are thinking.

HTH,
rip



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From: "Donal K. Fellows" <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
In-reply-to: <001b01c1ff28$c0518ff0$eb36073e@amecmchaloner>
	(markchaloner@btinternet.com)
Subject: Re: London
References: <4d.1e4be5ee.2a189576@aol.com> <001b01c1ff28$c0518ff0$eb36073e@amecmchaloner>
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Donal K. Fellows" <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: London
Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 09:32:13 +0100
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

"M Chaloner" <markchaloner@btinternet.com>
>> I amy be visiting London in a few weeks- do any of our British list
>> members have any advice on where to go and where not to go? Its
>> been a while since Ive been to your great country.
> 
> If you want some seriously good advice, try and visit somewhere
> *OUTSIDE* of London - even if it's only for a couple of days.
> There's far far more to the UK than just London. Don't make the
> mistake of just seeing London only.

Now, I'm not going to offer much in the way of specific advice (I live
and work a long way from London) but, I can say from experience that
the museums in South Kensington are really worthwhile.  The London Eye
is also supposed to be good, but I've never been on it.  And the Downs
are very nice too, and not hard to get to from London by train (though
be aware that some pubs are a bit anal-retentive about when they serve
food.)

Donal.
-- 
Donal K. Fellows, Department of Computer Science, University of Manchester, UK.
(work) fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk     Tel: +44-161-275-6137  (preferred email addr.)
(home) donal@ugglan.demon.co.uk  Tel: +44-1274-401017   Mobile: +44-7957-298955
http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~fellowsd/  (Don't quote my .sig; I've seen it before!)



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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
In-reply-to: <002c01c1ffab$f8fbda30$430511ac@jeffw>
Subject: Re: Subtle References
References:  <002c01c1ffab$f8fbda30$430511ac@jeffw>
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Donal K. Fellows" <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Subtle References
Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 09:46:56 +0100
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

"Jeff Weidemann" <jeff@pronto.com.au>
> True enough, the black robes did have the power, but IIRC the assembly
> was a political mess and full of in-fighting, decaying from within.  So
> its just possible the assembly may have formed a sub-committee to
> investigate the possibly of forming a sub-committee... Hmm sound very
> government dept. to me. 

True, but going round kidnapping members of the Assembly would be a
good way to unite the factions temporarily (probably for just long
enough to make an example of the kidnappers.)  Nothing like an
external threat for suppressing internal dissent...

Donal.
-- 
Donal K. Fellows, Department of Computer Science, University of Manchester, UK.
(work) fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk     Tel: +44-161-275-6137  (preferred email addr.)
(home) donal@ugglan.demon.co.uk  Tel: +44-1274-401017   Mobile: +44-7957-298955
http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~fellowsd/  (Don't quote my .sig; I've seen it before!)



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From: "James Holden" <james@globalvision.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: London
Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 09:50:53 +0100
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From: "James Holden" <james@globalvision.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: London
Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 09:50:53 +0100
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I work for www.LondonTown.com, we have a load of inormation about what is
happening
in London, take a look:

http://www.londontown.com/London/What_is_the_Golden_Jubilee/ - Golden
Jubilee
http://www.londontown.com/London/Summer_in_London_2002/ - Summer 2002
http://www.londontown.com/London/Exhibitions/ - Events, Exhibs etc..





-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Donal K. Fellows
>Sent: 20 May 2002 09:32
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: Re: London
>
>
>"M Chaloner" <markchaloner@btinternet.com>
>>> I amy be visiting London in a few weeks- do any of our British list
>>> members have any advice on where to go and where not to go? Its
>>> been a while since Ive been to your great country.
>>
>> If you want some seriously good advice, try and visit somewhere
>> *OUTSIDE* of London - even if it's only for a couple of days.
>> There's far far more to the UK than just London. Don't make the
>> mistake of just seeing London only.
>
>Now, I'm not going to offer much in the way of specific advice (I live
>and work a long way from London) but, I can say from experience that
>the museums in South Kensington are really worthwhile.  The London Eye
>is also supposed to be good, but I've never been on it.  And the Downs
>are very nice too, and not hard to get to from London by train (though
>be aware that some pubs are a bit anal-retentive about when they serve
>food.)
>
>Donal.
>--
>Donal K. Fellows, Department of Computer Science, University of Manchester,
>UK.
>(work) fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk     Tel: +44-161-275-6137  (preferred email
>addr.)
>(home) donal@ugglan.demon.co.uk  Tel: +44-1274-401017   Mobile:
>+44-7957-298955
>http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~fellowsd/  (Don't quote my .sig; I've seen it
>before!)
>


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From: "Donal K. Fellows" <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
In-reply-to: <15d.e1af2d0.2a18523f@aol.com> (RBlackley@aol.com)
Subject: Re: Soldier of Fortune 2 (no, not about the game, don't worry ;))
References:  <15d.e1af2d0.2a18523f@aol.com>
Message-Id: <E179iv3-0007bI-00@athene>
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Donal K. Fellows" <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Soldier of Fortune 2 (no, not about the game, don't worry ;))
Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 09:53:29 +0100
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

RBlackley@aol.com
> Yes you are correct in that assumption.  I previously posted an "I agree" 
> followed by this "ditto," I wish to make a formal apoligy to the list and 
> will attempt to bleather on and on in all following posts.  <g> sorry, 
> Darragh, but I do always copy what I'm responding to and post it below.

You should be aware that replying just to say "me too" (or something
similar) is known in some quarters as as an "AOLism" due to it being a
common habit among users of that ISP at one time.  <g>  Now, I notice
what your ISP is (funny that!) and call upon you to only post when
adding substantive new content, and so defy that stereotype.

Donal (if I sent a message every time I concurred with something, this
       list would be full of very boring messages.  Trust me.)
-- 
Donal K. Fellows, Department of Computer Science, University of Manchester, UK.
(work) fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk     Tel: +44-161-275-6137  (preferred email addr.)
(home) donal@ugglan.demon.co.uk  Tel: +44-1274-401017   Mobile: +44-7957-298955
http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~fellowsd/  (Don't quote my .sig; I've seen it before!)



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From: "Andy Bradley" <dark_elf@btinternet.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Subtle References
Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 11:42:44 +0100
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Andy Bradley" <dark_elf@btinternet.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Subtle References
Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 11:42:44 +0100
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That may be true, but from what I understand the black robes have been
charged with protecting the Empire from all threats. They concluded that
Midkemia was no real threat because magic was limited to the lesser
path.

I feel sure if they learned one of their own had been captured, they
would have been forced to re-evaluate their earlier conclusions. They
would have debated it and put it to a vote in council, but if it
involved a threat towards them, then in turn it would have been viewed
as a threat towards the Empire. 

I may have completely the wrong end of the stick tho, so perhaps Ray
would be best left to answer the question when he gets back from his
holiday.

~Andy

-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Jeff Weidemann
>Sent: 20 May 2002 04:11
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: RE: Subtle References
>
>True enough, the black robes did have the power, but IIRC the assembly
>was a political mess and full of in-fighting, decaying from within.  So
>its just possible the assembly may have formed a sub-committee to
>investigate the possibly of forming a sub-committee... Hmm sound very
>government dept. to me. 
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Andy Bradley
>Sent: Monday, 20 May 2002 7:40 AM
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: RE: Subtle References
>
>
>The Black Robes are the highest authority on Kelewan short of the
>Emperor. If they learned the elves of Elvandar had captured one of their
>brotherhood, then they could quite easily have commanded every house of
>the Empire into the war. Midkemia would have been utterly destroyed.
>
>~Andy
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Michael Gibson
>Sent: 19 May 2002 18:47
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: RE: Subtle References
>
>> > As I was reading Magician again I noticed something that I had
>failed to
>> > pick up on other times. In chapter 21-Changeling-when Macros shows
>up in
>> > Elvadar and is shown up to the Queens Court he says to Tomas his
>plan to
>> > capture a Black Robe will bring destruction to Elvandar without his
>help, he
>> > adds "A Black Robe you shall have in time but not yet"
>> > This is obviously a subtle reference to Pugs training on the Tsurani
>home
>> > world of Kelewan to become a Great One/Black Robe
>> > I was wondering if anyone else had noticed this or any other subtle 
>> > references like this while reading Rays work.
>>
>> I remember that bit, but I can't remember this - was there any
>reasoning
>> behind Macros's statement - like how would capturing a black robe
>destroy
>> Elvandar? Or do we just have to assume that Macros has forseen this
>and
>> that is whats going to happen (but Macros does not necessarily know
>why)?
>
>I guess it was meant that they'd either goof the attempt, or doing so
>might provoke a reaction from more than just the Alliance for War - more
>Black Robes (or was it the party for War?).  Or that the Tsurani in the
>field would turn their attention westwards.
>
>Mike,
>Gibfish of the West
>
>"I hate odd weeks, and don't get me started on Tuesdays..."
>


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From: "Richard Hogg" <richard@hoggonline.co.uk>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Subtle References - Spoilers?
Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 11:51:22 +0100
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Richard Hogg" <richard@hoggonline.co.uk>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Subtle References - Spoilers?
Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 11:51:22 +0100
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Surely the black robe he was referring to was simply Pug?

Richard.

-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Andy Bradley
>Sent: 20 May 2002 11:43
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: RE: Subtle References
>
>
>That may be true, but from what I understand the black robes have been
>charged with protecting the Empire from all threats. They concluded that
>Midkemia was no real threat because magic was limited to the lesser
>path.
>
>I feel sure if they learned one of their own had been captured, they
>would have been forced to re-evaluate their earlier conclusions. They
>would have debated it and put it to a vote in council, but if it
>involved a threat towards them, then in turn it would have been viewed
>as a threat towards the Empire. 
>
>I may have completely the wrong end of the stick tho, so perhaps Ray
>would be best left to answer the question when he gets back from his
>holiday.
>
>~Andy
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Jeff Weidemann
>Sent: 20 May 2002 04:11
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: RE: Subtle References
>
>True enough, the black robes did have the power, but IIRC the assembly
>was a political mess and full of in-fighting, decaying from within.  So
>its just possible the assembly may have formed a sub-committee to
>investigate the possibly of forming a sub-committee... Hmm sound very
>government dept. to me. 
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Andy Bradley
>Sent: Monday, 20 May 2002 7:40 AM
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: RE: Subtle References
>
>
>The Black Robes are the highest authority on Kelewan short of the
>Emperor. If they learned the elves of Elvandar had captured one of their
>brotherhood, then they could quite easily have commanded every house of
>the Empire into the war. Midkemia would have been utterly destroyed.
>
>~Andy
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Michael Gibson
>Sent: 19 May 2002 18:47
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: RE: Subtle References
>
>> > As I was reading Magician again I noticed something that I had
>failed to
>> > pick up on other times. In chapter 21-Changeling-when Macros shows
>up in
>> > Elvadar and is shown up to the Queens Court he says to Tomas his
>plan to
>> > capture a Black Robe will bring destruction to Elvandar without his
>help, he
>> > adds "A Black Robe you shall have in time but not yet"
>> > This is obviously a subtle reference to Pugs training on the Tsurani
>home
>> > world of Kelewan to become a Great One/Black Robe
>> > I was wondering if anyone else had noticed this or any other subtle
>> > references like this while reading Rays work.
>>
>> I remember that bit, but I can't remember this - was there any
>reasoning
>> behind Macros's statement - like how would capturing a black robe
>destroy
>> Elvandar? Or do we just have to assume that Macros has forseen this
>and
>> that is whats going to happen (but Macros does not necessarily know
>why)?
>
>I guess it was meant that they'd either goof the attempt, or doing so
>might provoke a reaction from more than just the Alliance for War - more
>Black Robes (or was it the party for War?).  Or that the Tsurani in the
>field would turn their attention westwards.
>
>Mike,
>Gibfish of the West
>
>"I hate odd weeks, and don't get me started on Tuesdays..."
>



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From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Slight confusion...
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 21:12:26 +1000 (GMT+1000)
From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Slight confusion...
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

> > > IIRC, Laurie was not of noble birth, nor adopted into any
> > royal house.
> > > Carline could be Queen, but then Laurie would be
> > Queen-consort or some such
> > > similar to the current arrangement in England I belive.
> > > -TerriLyn
> > Or rather, "Prince Consort".
> > I wonder, is Anita's claim to the throne (in terms of
> > Magician) stronger
> > than Carline's?
> <snip>
>
> Ergo, in Midkemia:^
> * Lyam and his wife (I always forget her name).
> 	Their children
> * Arutha and Anita
> 	Their Children
> * Carline and Laurie
> 	Their Children
>
> ^ Martin abdicated his rights, and Pug presumably has none to the throne,
> not that he wants any... he's too busy running StarDock and keeping Miranda
> out of trouble!
> So, yeah.. I'd say that in general, Anita has a stronger claim on the throne
> than Carline via marriage.  On her own however, I'd say not.

Sorry, you misunderstood me (through no fault of your own, I failed to
clarify myself.)

Anita is the daughter of Erland, who IIRC had a stronger claim to the
throne than Borric did. Forgetting that Rodric named Lyam the heir,
would/could Anita have become queen?

Actually, has there ever been any Kingdom ruling Queen's? (not King's
wives, but ruling as a result of inheiritance)

Thanks
Darragh
================================================
University of Queensland
Information Technology / Arts (History) student
[Email #1] s356179@student.uq.edu.au
[Email #2] squik@solutionone.com.au
[Web Site] http://hainsworth.ath.cx/~squik/
================================================



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From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Subtle References
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 21:16:26 +1000 (GMT+1000)
From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Subtle References
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Thats a bit of a huge assumption to make, saying 'Midkemia' would have
been destroyed.

While Midkemia had no 'assembly', they had Elven spellweavers, Dragons
(with their own unique magic).

The War Party could only bring about a stalemate fighting the Western
Kingdom army. It might be a different story if you combined all the armies
of Midkemia against those of the Empire.

> The Black Robes are the highest authority on Kelewan short of the
> Emperor. If they learned the elves of Elvandar had captured one of their
> brotherhood, then they could quite easily have commanded every house of
> the Empire into the war. Midkemia would have been utterly destroyed.
>
> ~Andy
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Michael Gibson
> Sent: 19 May 2002 18:47
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Subject: RE: Subtle References
>
> > > As I was reading Magician again I noticed something that I had
> failed to
> > > pick up on other times. In chapter 21-Changeling-when Macros shows
> up in
> > > Elvadar and is shown up to the Queens Court he says to Tomas his
> plan to
> > > capture a Black Robe will bring destruction to Elvandar without his
> help, he
> > > adds "A Black Robe you shall have in time but not yet"
> > > This is obviously a subtle reference to Pugs training on the Tsurani
> home
> > > world of Kelewan to become a Great One/Black Robe
> > > I was wondering if anyone else had noticed this or any other subtle
> > > references like this while reading Rays work.
> >
> > I remember that bit, but I can't remember this - was there any
> reasoning
> > behind Macros's statement - like how would capturing a black robe
> destroy
> > Elvandar? Or do we just have to assume that Macros has forseen this
> and
> > that is whats going to happen (but Macros does not necessarily know
> why)?
>
> I guess it was meant that they'd either goof the attempt, or doing so
> might
> provoke a reaction from more than just the Alliance for War - more Black
> Robes
> (or was it the party for War?).  Or that the Tsurani in the field would
> turn
> their attention westwards.
>
> Mike,
> Gibfish of the West
>
> "I hate odd weeks, and don't get me started on Tuesdays..."
>
>

Thanks
Darragh
================================================
University of Queensland
Information Technology / Arts (History) student
[Email #1] s356179@student.uq.edu.au
[Email #2] squik@solutionone.com.au
[Web Site] http://hainsworth.ath.cx/~squik/
================================================



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From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Slight confusion...
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Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 21:20:49 +1000 (GMT+1000)
From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Slight confusion...
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

> Lastly, of course not all royal or noble inheritances are simply through
> the male line (Plantagenet and it's descent is to the modern Windsors is).
> P.S.: On the Anita - Carline matter I would put all my weight behind
> Carline's line, it is very rare that a claim goes back up one level or
> more levels to put it simply. And by the way, Prince Philip is royal too
> being a Mountbatten who are cousins to the Windsors, former kings of
> Greece and descendants of the Prussian kings among others. Albert (Queen
> Victoria's husband) was also Prince consort. The wife of a king of teh
> Plantagenet line on teh otehr hand would always be Queen and require no
> fancy title.

Now theres a plot string for future Midkemia books:)


> Lastly Martin's abdication is not worth the paper it was
> written on, the day his son or descendants wish to claim the throne they
> may. Not even legitimacy would matter in such a case. Always remember in
> ammedieval world the sword is mightier then the pen (unless thrown with
> sufficient force of course).





> Terri Lyn Layman wrote:
>
> >>-----Original Message-----
> >>From: Darragh Murray
> >>Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2002 5:34 AM
> >>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> >>Subject: RE: Slight confusion...
> >>
> >>
> >>>IIRC, Laurie was not of noble birth, nor adopted into any
> >>>
> >>royal house.
> >>
> >>>Carline could be Queen, but then Laurie would be
> >>>
> >>Queen-consort or some such
> >>
> >>>similar to the current arrangement in England I belive.
> >>>-TerriLyn
> >>>
> >>Or rather, "Prince Consort".
> >>
> >>I wonder, is Anita's claim to the throne (in terms of
> >>Magician) stronger
> >>than Carline's?
> >>
> >>
> ><snip>
> >
> >Well, again using the British System as an example: (Any UK'ers can fix
> >this.)
> >Elizabeth is Queen, her husband is Prince Consort
> >The Heirs are, in order:
> >* Prince Charles (Camilla would then be his Consort if they are allowed to
> >marry)
> >* Prince William
> >* Prince Harry
> >* (Now, Anne the Princess Royal and her Children would usually fall into
> >place here, but for some reason, I've not heard that they are in line.  I
> >don't know if it was because of her divorce and remarriage or what.)
> >* Prince Andrew (Sarah would be his Queen if they get off their butts and
> >remarry.. quit hinting at things dangit!)
> >* Princess Beatrice
> >* Princess Eugenie
> >* Prince Edward and his wife, Sophie
> >* Their Children, if any.
> >
> >Ergo, in Midkemia:^
> >* Lyam and his wife (I always forget her name).
> >	Their children
> >* Arutha and Anita
> >	Their Children
> >* Carline and Laurie
> >	Their Children
> >
> >^ Martin abdicated his rights, and Pug presumably has none to the throne,
> >not that he wants any... he's too busy running StarDock and keeping Miranda
> >out of trouble!
> >
> >So, yeah.. I'd say that in general, Anita has a stronger claim on the throne
> >than Carline via marriage.  On her own however, I'd say not.
> >
> >-TerriLyn
> >
> >
>
>

Thanks
Darragh
================================================
University of Queensland
Information Technology / Arts (History) student
[Email #1] s356179@student.uq.edu.au
[Email #2] squik@solutionone.com.au
[Web Site] http://hainsworth.ath.cx/~squik/
================================================



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From: "Mr Elbion" <elbion3@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: RE: Subtle References 
Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 11:25:21 +0000
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From: "Mr Elbion" <elbion3@hotmail.com>
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Subject: RE: Subtle References 
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Yes I agree, the black robe he was referring to was Pug not the entire 
Assembly. Macros makes the comment about having a black robe soon as what 
appears to be an after thought, and he also adds it with a smile.


>From: "Richard Hogg" <richard@hoggonline.co.uk>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
>Subject: RE: Subtle References - Spoilers?
>Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 11:51:22 +0100
>
>
>Surely the black robe he was referring to was simply Pug?
>
>Richard.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Andy Bradley
>Sent: 20 May 2002 11:43
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: RE: Subtle References
>
>
>That may be true, but from what I understand the black robes have been
>charged with protecting the Empire from all threats. They concluded that
>Midkemia was no real threat because magic was limited to the lesser
>path.
>
>I feel sure if they learned one of their own had been captured, they
>would have been forced to re-evaluate their earlier conclusions. They
>would have debated it and put it to a vote in council, but if it
>involved a threat towards them, then in turn it would have been viewed
>as a threat towards the Empire.
>
>I may have completely the wrong end of the stick tho, so perhaps Ray
>would be best left to answer the question when he gets back from his
>holiday.
>
>~Andy
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Jeff Weidemann
>Sent: 20 May 2002 04:11
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: RE: Subtle References
>
>True enough, the black robes did have the power, but IIRC the assembly
>was a political mess and full of in-fighting, decaying from within.  So
>its just possible the assembly may have formed a sub-committee to
>investigate the possibly of forming a sub-committee... Hmm sound very
>government dept. to me.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Andy Bradley
>Sent: Monday, 20 May 2002 7:40 AM
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: RE: Subtle References
>
>
>The Black Robes are the highest authority on Kelewan short of the
>Emperor. If they learned the elves of Elvandar had captured one of their
>brotherhood, then they could quite easily have commanded every house of
>the Empire into the war. Midkemia would have been utterly destroyed.
>
>~Andy
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Michael Gibson
>Sent: 19 May 2002 18:47
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: RE: Subtle References
>
> > > As I was reading Magician again I noticed something that I had
>failed to
> > > pick up on other times. In chapter 21-Changeling-when Macros shows
>up in
> > > Elvadar and is shown up to the Queens Court he says to Tomas his
>plan to
> > > capture a Black Robe will bring destruction to Elvandar without his
>help, he
> > > adds "A Black Robe you shall have in time but not yet"
> > > This is obviously a subtle reference to Pugs training on the Tsurani
>home
> > > world of Kelewan to become a Great One/Black Robe
> > > I was wondering if anyone else had noticed this or any other subtle
> > > references like this while reading Rays work.
> >
> > I remember that bit, but I can't remember this - was there any
>reasoning
> > behind Macros's statement - like how would capturing a black robe
>destroy
> > Elvandar? Or do we just have to assume that Macros has forseen this
>and
> > that is whats going to happen (but Macros does not necessarily know
>why)?
>
>I guess it was meant that they'd either goof the attempt, or doing so
>might provoke a reaction from more than just the Alliance for War - more
>Black Robes (or was it the party for War?).  Or that the Tsurani in the
>field would turn their attention westwards.
>
>Mike,
>Gibfish of the West
>
>"I hate odd weeks, and don't get me started on Tuesdays..."
>
>




_________________________________________________________________
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Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 21:36:47 +1000 (GMT+1000)
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From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Language
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020520092703.00abaae0@mail.swindon.wrsec.fr>
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Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 21:36:47 +1000 (GMT+1000)
From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Language
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

> >Enough of this!!(Languages)Noone cares and if you few that do want to keep it
> >up, do so off list.
> >Thanks :)
> Ooh.  Pronoun trouble.  What you meant to say was
> "I don't care".  The truth being that you have no
> idea how or what the rest of us are thinking.
> HTH,
> rip

..and thats a wrap..
Q.E.D.

Thanks
Darragh
================================================
University of Queensland
Information Technology / Arts (History) student
[Email #1] s356179@student.uq.edu.au
[Email #2] squik@solutionone.com.au
[Web Site] http://hainsworth.ath.cx/~squik/
================================================



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Subject: Re: family tree
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Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 11:38:07 +0000
Subject: Re: family tree
From: "Sylvain Guehl" <fenyxkell@demo.xandmail.com>
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Exactly. The confusion can be quite annoying and that's why Tomx added
the Dutch translations to the tree I made. Hope this is clear enough
right now.

Syl
(aka Fenyx Kell)

> It's a known problem (that the first Dutch editor 
> changed all the proper names). That editor no 
> longer works for that publisher.
> 
> rip
> 
> At 20:44 18/05/2002, you wrote:
> >--- "Ben Nielson" wrote:
> >>A fairly large Family Tree can be located at Fenix Kell's Lair 
> >>(http://fenyx.kell.free.fr/english/feist.htm)
> >>
> >>Or you can just follow this link:
> >>http://fenyx.kell.free.fr/Gfx/midfamly.gif
> >
> >Who dared to translate proper names???
> >Emus? Puc? Jimmy as Robbie?! Adelinde (instead of Abigail)?!
> >
> >INTOLERABLE!
> >
> >Father Nathan
> >
> >
> >
> >_____________________________________________________________
> >Get your Free, Permanent, and Private Irish Email Today!
> >---------- http://www.irish4ever.com -----------
> >
> >_____________________________________________________________
> >Promote your group and strengthen ties to your members with email@yourgroup.org by Everyone.net http://www.everyone.net/?btn=tag
> 
> 


Fenyx Kell.



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From: Michael Gibson <gibbyfish@yahoo.com>
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 --- Richard Hogg <richard@hoggonline.co.uk> wrote: > 
> Surely the black robe he was referring to was simply Pug?

Nope - there was no reference to Pug leaving Kelewan until he came
through with Katala and William.  An also, Macros fragged a couple of
the Black Robe - if Pug'd had a near death experience being with
them, we'd have heard about it.

=====
Mike,
Gibfish of Faringdonia

"I meant, have you ploughed the ocean waves at all?"
Colon gave him a cunning look.
"Ah, you can't catch me with that one, sir," he said.  "Everyone knows the horses would sink."

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
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IIRC, Macros was not referring to Pug already comleting his training and 
fighting for the Empire, He was referring to the time when Pug comes back to 
Midkemia as a black robe after he completes the trainig in the next 
chapter-22, TRAINIG- to restore the Greater Path magic to Midkemia.


>From: Michael Gibson <gibbyfish@yahoo.com>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: RE: Subtle References - Spoilers?
>Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 12:42:09 +0100 (BST)
>
>  --- Richard Hogg <richard@hoggonline.co.uk> wrote: >
> > Surely the black robe he was referring to was simply Pug?
>
>Nope - there was no reference to Pug leaving Kelewan until he came
>through with Katala and William.  An also, Macros fragged a couple of
>the Black Robe - if Pug'd had a near death experience being with
>them, we'd have heard about it.
>
>=====
>Mike,
>Gibfish of Faringdonia
>
>"I meant, have you ploughed the ocean waves at all?"
>Colon gave him a cunning look.
>"Ah, you can't catch me with that one, sir," he said.  "Everyone knows the 
>horses would sink."
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Everything you'll ever need on one web page
>from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts
>http://uk.my.yahoo.com




_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com



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From: "Andy Bradley" <dark_elf@btinternet.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Subtle References
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If you remember the battle in Elvandar; the four black robes brushed
aside the magic of the elven spell weavers without any difficulty. I
somehow wonder if the dragons would have become involved? There are rare
for a start, and choose to live far outside the influence of the other
races. 

Perhaps "Midkemia being destroyed" was a bit much, but I doubt the
Kingdom would have survived! A thousand black robes of the assembly +
every noble house and its army would be devastating. Macros would be the
only one who could have interveined, but he needed Pug and his training
on Kelewan before he could!



~Andy


-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Darragh Murray
>Sent: 20 May 2002 12:16
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: RE: Subtle References
>
>Thats a bit of a huge assumption to make, saying 'Midkemia' would have
>been destroyed.
>
>While Midkemia had no 'assembly', they had Elven spellweavers, Dragons
>(with their own unique magic).
>
>The War Party could only bring about a stalemate fighting the Western
>Kingdom army. It might be a different story if you combined all the
>armies
>of Midkemia against those of the Empire.
>
>> The Black Robes are the highest authority on Kelewan short of the
>> Emperor. If they learned the elves of Elvandar had captured one of
>their
>> brotherhood, then they could quite easily have commanded every house
>of
>> the Empire into the war. Midkemia would have been utterly destroyed.
>>
>> ~Andy
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Michael Gibson
>> Sent: 19 May 2002 18:47
>> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>> Subject: RE: Subtle References
>>
>> > > As I was reading Magician again I noticed something that I had
>> failed to
>> > > pick up on other times. In chapter 21-Changeling-when Macros shows
>> up in
>> > > Elvadar and is shown up to the Queens Court he says to Tomas his
>> plan to
>> > > capture a Black Robe will bring destruction to Elvandar without
>his
>> help, he
>> > > adds "A Black Robe you shall have in time but not yet"
>> > > This is obviously a subtle reference to Pugs training on the
>Tsurani
>> home
>> > > world of Kelewan to become a Great One/Black Robe
>> > > I was wondering if anyone else had noticed this or any other
>subtle
>> > > references like this while reading Rays work.
>> >
>> > I remember that bit, but I can't remember this - was there any
>> reasoning
>> > behind Macros's statement - like how would capturing a black robe
>> destroy
>> > Elvandar? Or do we just have to assume that Macros has forseen this
>> and
>> > that is whats going to happen (but Macros does not necessarily know
>> why)?
>>
>> I guess it was meant that they'd either goof the attempt, or doing so
>> might
>> provoke a reaction from more than just the Alliance for War - more
>Black
>> Robes
>> (or was it the party for War?).  Or that the Tsurani in the field
>would
>> turn
>> their attention westwards.
>>
>> Mike,
>> Gibfish of the West
>>
>> "I hate odd weeks, and don't get me started on Tuesdays..."
>>
>>
>
>Thanks
>Darragh
>================================================
>University of Queensland
>Information Technology / Arts (History) student
>[Email #1] s356179@student.uq.edu.au
>[Email #2] squik@solutionone.com.au
>[Web Site] http://hainsworth.ath.cx/~squik/
>================================================
>


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Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 09:51:15 EDT
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My subtle reference question is about Macros.  When Macros was relating his 
life story (I think it was in Darkness at Sethanon), he refers to an empire, 
and a man who was condemned to death by this empire.  Now, I'm not sure, 
since it's been awhile since I've read Darkness, but could Ray have been 
referring to Jesus as the condemned man?

                                                       Peace,
                                                                   Matt

"Lets Roll."- Todd Beamer
USA, Muthafacko!

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Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 15:27:12 +0100
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At 14:51 20/05/2002, you wrote:
>My subtle reference question is about Macros.  When Macros was relating his life story (I think it was in Darkness at Sethanon), he refers to an empire, and a man who was condemned to death by this empire.  Now, I'm not sure, since it's been awhile since I've read Darkness, but could Ray have been referring to Jesus as the condemned man? 

This really should be in the faq.

An example response:
>> Ray, when I first readed the riftwar saga, and knew Macros' (first) story,
>>  it seemed to me that this "very wise man of another world" that his
>> father helped to kill carries a great resemblance to an ordinary roman
>> soldier that would have helped crucify Jesus Christ.
>>
>> Did you do that resemblance on purpose, knowing that the true story of
>> macros would be different than that, or is just a coincidence?
>>
>> Anyway, I know that Macros is a compulsive liar! ;)
>>
>> Beers,
>> Alvaro
>> _________________________________________________________________________
>> Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.
>>
>>
>Actually, it's not the Roman soldier, but Isaac Lacademos, "The Wandering
>Jew," of myth, and yes I borrowed a bit from that mythos, and I knew it
>was a lie from word one. <g>
>
>Best, R.E.F.

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From: LDS627@aol.com
Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 12:27:03 EDT
Subject: Re: Subtle References
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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In a message dated 5/19/2002 8:17:12 PM Pacific Daylight Time, 
jeff@pronto.com.au writes:


> Subj:RE: Subtle References 
> Date:5/19/2002 8:17:12 PM Pacific Daylight Time
> From:<A HREF="mailto:jeff@pronto.com.au">jeff@pronto.com.au</A>
> Reply-to:<A HREF="mailto:FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu">FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu</A>
> To:<A HREF="mailto:FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu">FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu</A>
> Sent from the Internet 
> 
> 
> 
> True enough, the black robes did have the power, but IIRC the assembly
> was a political mess and full of in-fighting, decaying from within.  So
> its just possible the assembly may have formed a sub-committee to
> investigate the possibly of forming a sub-committee... Hmm sound very
> government dept. to me. 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Andy Bradley
> Sent: Monday, 20 May 2002 7:40 AM
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Subject: RE: Subtle References
> 
> 
> The Black Robes are the highest authority on Kelewan short of the
> Emperor. If they learned the elves of Elvandar had captured one of their
> brotherhood, then they could quite easily have commanded every house of
> the Empire into the war. Midkemia would have been utterly destroyed.
> 
> ~Andy
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Michael Gibson
> Sent: 19 May 2002 18:47
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Subject: RE: Subtle References
> 
> > > As I was reading Magician again I noticed something that I had
> failed to
> > > pick up on other times. In chapter 21-Changeling-when Macros shows
> up in
> > > Elvadar and is shown up to the Queens Court he says to Tomas his
> plan to
> > > capture a Black Robe will bring destruction to Elvandar without his
> help, he
> > > adds "A Black Robe you shall have in time but not yet"
> > > This is obviously a subtle reference to Pugs training on the Tsurani
> home
> > > world of Kelewan to become a Great One/Black Robe
> > > I was wondering if anyone else had noticed this or any other subtle 
> > > references like this while reading Rays work.
> >
> > I remember that bit, but I can't remember this - was there any
> reasoning
> > behind Macros's statement - like how would capturing a black robe
> destroy
> > Elvandar? Or do we just have to assume that Macros has forseen this
> and
> > that is whats going to happen (but Macros does not necessarily know
> why)?
> 
> I guess it was meant that they'd either goof the attempt, or doing so
> might provoke a reaction from more than just the Alliance for War - more
> Black Robes (or was it the party for War?).  Or that the Tsurani in the
> field would turn their attention westwards.
> 
> Mike,
> Gibfish of the West
> 
> "I hate odd weeks, and don't get me started on Tuesdays..."
> 
> 

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Subject: Re: Subtle References
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*** EOOH ***
From: LDS627@aol.com
Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 12:29:12 EDT
Subject: Re: Subtle References
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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I HATE AOL's MAIL

Now that I got THAT off my chest, 

The reality is this, the assembly consider themselves sacrosanct, nearly 
godlike if you will. Were the elves to capture one, the affront would be so 
grave that the entire assembly would likely stand united in their 
determination to destroy the kingdom and the elves. Look at their reaction in 
Servant of the Empire. And that was just a SEEMING defiance.

Larry


In a message dated 5/19/2002 8:17:12 PM Pacific Daylight Time, 
jeff@pronto.com.au writes:


> Subj:RE: Subtle References 
> Date:5/19/2002 8:17:12 PM Pacific Daylight Time
> From:<A HREF="mailto:jeff@pronto.com.au">jeff@pronto.com.au</A>
> Reply-to:<A HREF="mailto:FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu">FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu</A>
> To:<A HREF="mailto:FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu">FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu</A>
> Sent from the Internet 
> 
> 
> 
> True enough, the black robes did have the power, but IIRC the assembly
> was a political mess and full of in-fighting, decaying from within.  So
> its just possible the assembly may have formed a sub-committee to
> investigate the possibly of forming a sub-committee... Hmm sound very
> government dept. to me. 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Andy Bradley
> Sent: Monday, 20 May 2002 7:40 AM
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Subject: RE: Subtle References
> 
> 
> The Black Robes are the highest authority on Kelewan short of the
> Emperor. If they learned the elves of Elvandar had captured one of their
> brotherhood, then they could quite easily have commanded every house of
> the Empire into the war. Midkemia would have been utterly destroyed.
> 
> ~Andy
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Michael Gibson
> Sent: 19 May 2002 18:47
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Subject: RE: Subtle References
> 
> > > As I was reading Magician again I noticed something that I had
> failed to
> > > pick up on other times. In chapter 21-Changeling-when Macros shows
> up in
> > > Elvadar and is shown up to the Queens Court he says to Tomas his
> plan to
> > > capture a Black Robe will bring destruction to Elvandar without his
> help, he
> > > adds "A Black Robe you shall have in time but not yet"
> > > This is obviously a subtle reference to Pugs training on the Tsurani
> home
> > > world of Kelewan to become a Great One/Black Robe
> > > I was wondering if anyone else had noticed this or any other subtle 
> > > references like this while reading Rays work.
> >
> > I remember that bit, but I can't remember this - was there any
> reasoning
> > behind Macros's statement - like how would capturing a black robe
> destroy
> > Elvandar? Or do we just have to assume that Macros has forseen this
> and
> > that is whats going to happen (but Macros does not necessarily know
> why)?
> 
> I guess it was meant that they'd either goof the attempt, or doing so
> might provoke a reaction from more than just the Alliance for War - more
> Black Robes (or was it the party for War?).  Or that the Tsurani in the
> field would turn their attention westwards.
> 
> Mike,
> Gibfish of the West
> 
> "I hate odd weeks, and don't get me started on Tuesdays..."
> 
> 

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From: "LaughingFrog" <badeand.dk@mail.dk>
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Subject: Re: Subtle References
Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 18:52:54 +0200
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*** EOOH ***
From: "LaughingFrog" <badeand.dk@mail.dk>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Subtle References
Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 18:52:54 +0200
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

>Thats a bit of a huge assumption to make, saying 'Midkemia' would have
>been destroyed.
>
>While Midkemia had no 'assembly', they had Elven spellweavers, Dragons
>(with their own unique magic).
>
>The War Party could only bring about a stalemate fighting the Western
>Kingdom army. It might be a different story if you combined all the armies
>of Midkemia against those of the Empire.
>
>> The Black Robes are the highest authority on Kelewan short of the
>> Emperor. If they learned the elves of Elvandar had captured one of their
>> brotherhood, then they could quite easily have commanded every house of
>> the Empire into the war. Midkemia would have been utterly destroyed.
>>
>> ~Andy
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Michael Gibson
>> Sent: 19 May 2002 18:47
>> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>> Subject: RE: Subtle References
>>
>> > > As I was reading Magician again I noticed something that I had
>> failed to
>> > > pick up on other times. In chapter 21-Changeling-when Macros shows
>> up in
>> > > Elvadar and is shown up to the Queens Court he says to Tomas his
>> plan to
>> > > capture a Black Robe will bring destruction to Elvandar without his
>> help, he
>> > > adds "A Black Robe you shall have in time but not yet"
>> > > This is obviously a subtle reference to Pugs training on the Tsurani
>> home
>> > > world of Kelewan to become a Great One/Black Robe
>> > > I was wondering if anyone else had noticed this or any other subtle
>> > > references like this while reading Rays work.
>> >
>> > I remember that bit, but I can't remember this - was there any
>> reasoning
>> > behind Macros's statement - like how would capturing a black robe
>> destroy
>> > Elvandar? Or do we just have to assume that Macros has forseen this
>> and
>> > that is whats going to happen (but Macros does not necessarily know
>> why)?
>>
>> I guess it was meant that they'd either goof the attempt, or doing so
>> might
>> provoke a reaction from more than just the Alliance for War - more Black
>> Robes
>> (or was it the party for War?).  Or that the Tsurani in the field would
>> turn
>> their attention westwards.
>>
>> Mike,
>> Gibfish of the West
>>
>> "I hate odd weeks, and don't get me started on Tuesdays..."
>>
>>
>
>Thanks
>Darragh
>================================================
>University of Queensland
>Information Technology / Arts (History) student
>[Email #1] s356179@student.uq.edu.au
>[Email #2] squik@solutionone.com.au
>[Web Site] http://hainsworth.ath.cx/~squik/
>================================================

Not to forget that at no time did more than a small part of the
empires armies ever set foot on midkemia. The empirian armies are HUGE
compared to those of the kingdom.
**********************************
LaughingFrog
**********************************

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*** EOOH ***
From: "-maniax-" <maniax@firetrack.demon.co.uk>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: London
Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 18:08:31 +0100
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Will Menzies" <will.menzies@btinternet.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Monday, May 20, 2002 12:25 AM
Subject: Re: London


<snip>

> In London at the moment there are, however, some great things to see.  A
> must is the Science Museum - (near South Kensington Subway Station).  They
> have an exhibition on at the moment on waste and the human body - sounds
> gross, I know, but if you have kids (or are a kid at heart) you will love
> it. - Admission is around $8.  All around this museum are the other great
> museums of the world that happen to be in London, including the Natural
> History Museum and The Victoria and Albert.

The Science Museum, The Natural History Museum, The British Museum and The
Victoria & Albert Museum have free admission for all visitors although some
exhibitions within the museums may charge for admission.

regards

-maniax-






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Subject: Query
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From: "Adam Thornton" <sandman_one87@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Query
Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 13:20:08 +1200
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OK enough, i HAVE to ask i keep tearing my hair out not being able to
figure this out. What does IIRC mean or stand for ??

Thanks
Adam

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Subject: Re: Query 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 21 May 2002 13:20:08 +1200."
             <OE22nzsLqIfQdmEB4HG00000482@hotmail.com> 
Cc: Alan.Hargreaves@Sun.COM
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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Query 
Cc: Alan.Hargreaves@Sun.COM
From: Alan.Hargreaves@Sun.COM
Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 11:43:42 +1000
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Sorry, I have to phrase it this way...

IIRC it stands for If I Recall Correctly ;)


alan.
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From: RBlackley@aol.com
Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 21:47:40 EDT
Subject: Re: Query
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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It stands for, If I Recall,
Richard

> 
> 
> OK enough, i HAVE to ask i keep tearing my hair out not being able to 
> figure this out. What does IIRC mean or stand for ??
>  
> Thanks
> Adam
> 


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Subject: Re: A lot of questions
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From: Gkhd11a@aol.com
Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 22:12:19 EDT
Subject: Re: A lot of questions
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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In a message dated 5/18/02 12:39:44 PM Central Daylight Time, 
raymond@bittersea.com writes:


> On Friday, May 17, 2002, at 07:48 PM, Gkhd11a@aol.com wrote:
> 
> > In a message dated 5/17/02 8:39:49 PM Central Daylight Time, 
> > cries@yifan.net writes:
> >
> >
> > Raymond Feist wrote:
> > >
> > > Magician was my first work.  But I was writing since the 2nd grade.
> >
> > I don't believe this was covered in the FAQ:
> >
> > Many authors have to write and write for years, collect stacks of
> > rejection letters and whatnot, before finally seeing something
> > published, much less be successful.
> >
> > Did you have to shop Magician around awhile, collecting rejection
> > letters?
> >
> > Craig J. Ries
> >
> >
> >
> >       What I would like to know is how much of what kind of writing 
> > where you doing.  And did you have any formal education in writing, or 
> > an english major in college?  I know you wrote a little bit of fantasy 
> > as short stories, but I get the idea that it was just to get a few 
> > laughes from your freinds and pass the time.
> 
> I was a communications arts major in college, and only wrote for 
> grades.  But that's when I discovered I was a decent writer, as I got 
> A's all the time.
> 
> I never tried to write serious fiction until I started Magician.
> 
> Best, R.E>F.
> ----
> 
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
> stupidity.

       Wow, does it sometimes piss you off that many people think you have 
not matched your first attempt at serious writing, in another work?  I do 
belive Magician is you best, but I think that is more because at the pace we 
learn about all the characters and about the land of Midkemia than your 
writing skill, and the fact that it was my first fantasy novel.  I felt when 
I was reading Magican it was like reading something a freind had wrote, the 
cornyness (is that even a word?) of some of it actually made me fell more at 
home with your work, probably because I was only about 13 then.  Now I'm a 
smart, mature, and hard-working 16 year old adult.

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From: "Chris R Hoffman" <krazyman@advnet.net>
To: "FEISTFANS-L@cornell. edu" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: book order
Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 22:31:51 -0400
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From: "Chris R Hoffman" <krazyman@advnet.net>
To: "FEISTFANS-L@cornell. edu" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: book order
Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 22:31:51 -0400
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Could someone please remind me where the web site is that lists the book's
in order?

Chris




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From: "Cameron Duncan" <cduncan@atinera.com.au>
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Subject: RE: book order
Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 12:35:52 +1000
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From: "Cameron Duncan" <cduncan@atinera.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: book order
Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 12:35:52 +1000
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Try -

www.crydee.com

regards,

Cameron

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Chris R Hoffman
> Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2002 12:32 PM
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell. edu
> Subject: book order
>
>
> Could someone please remind me where the web site is that lists the book's
> in order?
>
> Chris
>
>
>



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Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 21:02:29 -0600
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Murder in Lamut
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Now available.... June 5th from Amazon.co.uk :)

They need to make up their minds :)

Craig J. Ries



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----------------------------------------------------------------------

INTERNET RELAY CHAT




boo yah!



>From: "Adam Thornton" <SANDMAN_ONE87@HOTMAIL.COM>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu 
>To: <FEISTFANS-L@CORNELL.EDU>
>Subject: Query 
>Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 13:20:08 +1200 
> 
>OK enough, i HAVE to ask i keep tearing my hair out not being able to
>figure this out. What does IIRC mean or stand for ??
> 
>Thanks 
>Adam 


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References: <003c01c20070$39aa6280$3b0199a8@cduncan.atinera.com.au> <3CE9B8C5.E27832CD@yifan.net>
Subject: Re: Murder in Lamut
Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 08:46:29 +0100
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Paul Whitby" <pjwhitby@ntlworld.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Murder in Lamut
Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 08:46:29 +0100
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I see that Amazon have finally put the correct date up <g>

Paul
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2002 4:02 AM
Subject: Murder in Lamut


> Now available.... June 5th from Amazon.co.uk :)
> 
> They need to make up their minds :)
> 
> Craig J. Ries
> 
> 



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From: "C.P" <itzswift@iinet.net.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: How do i un-subscribe
Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 20:20:25 +0800
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  How do i un Subscribe?  ?!?

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*** EOOH ***
From: "Donal K. Fellows" <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: How do i un-subscribe
Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 13:33:09 +0100
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"C.P" <itzswift@iinet.net.au>
>   How do i un Subscribe?  ?!?

Send a *plain text* message to listproc@cornell.edu from the address
that you subscribed with, with a body consisting of:

  UNSUBSCRIBE FEISTFANS-L

See http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~fellowsd/REF/listproc-ref.html for more
details.

Donal.
-- 
Donal K. Fellows, Department of Computer Science, University of Manchester, UK.
(work) fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk     Tel: +44-161-275-6137  (preferred email addr.)
(home) donal@ugglan.demon.co.uk  Tel: +44-1274-401017   Mobile: +44-7957-298955
http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~fellowsd/  (Don't quote my .sig; I've seen it before!)



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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 08:44:22 -0400
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Dan Lorey <dl24@cornell.edu>
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At 20:20 5/21/02 +0800, "C.P" <itzswift@iinet.net.au> wrote:
>  How do i un Subscribe?  ?!?

Send the command

unsubscribe feistfans-l

to

listproc@cornell.edu

  Dan Lorey - Feistfans-L List Owner



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To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
References: <LAW2-F64ZQUo77sGJaC00005be7@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Query
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Query
Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 08:17:03 -0500
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Wrong.  Internet relay chat is IRC.  IIRC is If I Recall Correctly
and is a common short hand on e-mail lists, particularly this one.
IMHO is translated here as In My Humble Opinion, IMO is just 'In My
Opinion'.  There are numerous ones of these, and some people can
point you to websites with more comprehensive lists of them.  But
the FAQs for a while had the more common shorthands posted.

-James

----- Original Message -----

> INTERNET RELAY CHAT

> >OK enough, i HAVE to ask i keep tearing my hair out not being able to
> >figure this out. What does IIRC mean or stand for ??




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From: "James Holden" <james@globalvision.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Query
Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 14:46:21 +0100
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Holden" <james@globalvision.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Query
Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 14:46:21 +0100
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Try:
http://home3.inet.tele.dk/hgaarde/Acronyms.html

-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of James Young
>Sent: 21 May 2002 14:17
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: Re: Query
>
>
>Wrong.  Internet relay chat is IRC.  IIRC is If I Recall Correctly
>and is a common short hand on e-mail lists, particularly this one.
>IMHO is translated here as In My Humble Opinion, IMO is just 'In My
>Opinion'.  There are numerous ones of these, and some people can
>point you to websites with more comprehensive lists of them.  But
>the FAQs for a while had the more common shorthands posted.
>
>-James
>
>----- Original Message -----
>
>> INTERNET RELAY CHAT
>
>> >OK enough, i HAVE to ask i keep tearing my hair out not being able to
>> >figure this out. What does IIRC mean or stand for ??
>


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From: Kenneth Jones <killkenny@thos.co.za>
Subject: Rift on Midkemia
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Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 15:53:10 +0200
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: Kenneth Jones <killkenny@thos.co.za>
Subject: Rift on Midkemia
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Hi everyone.

Please could someone tell me where the rift was on Midkemia.

I would go a check in my magician, but I'm at work.

Thanks a ton.

Regards,
Kenneth Jones



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From: JEEPMONSTER69@aol.com
Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 11:39:49 EDT
Subject: Re: Rift on Midkemia
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In a message dated 5/21/2002 10:27:13 AM Eastern Daylight Time, 
killkenny@thos.co.za writes:


> Hi everyone.
> 
> Please could someone tell me where the rift was on Midkemia.
> 
> I would go a check in my magician, but I'm at work.
> 
> Thanks a ton.
> 
> Regards,
> Kenneth Jones
> 

IIRC,  it was in a valley, somewhere near Tyr-Sog or LaMut.

                                                 Peace,
                                                             Matt
"Lets Roll."- Todd Beamer
USA, Muthafacko!

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In Mistress of the Empire Pug is Speaking with lady Mara about how she 
should refer to him. He states that he is a Prince among other things. So 
wouldn't that make him more than a cousin?



Quoting Dennis Groome <nallix@cox.net>:

> 
> 
> -Dennis H. Groome V
> ICQ: 11430261 AIM/Yahoo: AmoNympham
> Microsoft Messenger: marcus_giovani@hotmail.com
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Terri Lyn Layman" <terrilyn@fullnet.com>
> To: "FeistList (E-mail)" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2002 12:23 AM
> Subject: Slight confusion...
> 
> 
> > Ok... I've always been slightly confused as to the exact line
> > established....
> >
> > When Borric adopted Pug, was it an adoption in the traditional
> sense,
> making
> > the children of Borric: Martin, Lyam, Arutha, Pug and
> Carline...
> >
> > Or was it a more "abstract" adoption, leaving his children
> intact: M, L, A
> > and C; with Pug therefore becoming a "cousin" to M, L, A and C?
> 
> Pug is their "cousin" since he share their name.  He doesn't have a
> claim to
> the throne, at least not a concrete one like Martin, Lyam, Arutha
> or Carline
> (or rather her husband) do.
> 





-I canna give ya more power captin. She'll fly herself apart!-

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From: "Andy Bradley" <dark_elf@btinternet.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Rift on Midkemia
Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 16:58:49 +0100
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Andy Bradley" <dark_elf@btinternet.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Rift on Midkemia
Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 16:58:49 +0100
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It was in a high valley of the Grey Towers, close to the south pass.
They wanted quick access to the dwarven mines.

~Andy



-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Kenneth Jones
>Sent: 21 May 2002 14:53
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: Rift on Midkemia
>
>Hi everyone.
>
>Please could someone tell me where the rift was on Midkemia.
>
>I would go a check in my magician, but I'm at work.
>
>Thanks a ton.
>
>Regards,
>Kenneth Jones
>


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> > Ok... I've always been slightly confused as to the exact line
> > established....
> > When Borric adopted Pug, was it an adoption in the traditional sense, making
> > the children of Borric: Martin, Lyam, Arutha, Pug and Carline... Or was it a
> > more "abstract" adoption, leaving his children intact: M, L, A and C; with Pug
> > therefore becoming a "cousin" to M, L, A and C?
> 
> I think, in your temrs, it was a combination. He was formally adopted, but
> however could not be considered to be a direct in line for the throne.


I think you're right -- Pug was adopted, and would be considered a brother to 
Lyam, Arutha, and Martin. However, because he was not of "noble blood," he 
would not be considered in line for the throne...unless the congress of lords 
needed him to be in line for political considerations, of course.

I think some of the confusion has been when Arutha and others have referred to 
Pug as their "cousin." I think this is more to make the point that Pug *IS* 
royalty, through adoption -- I think it's traditional that royals refer to each 
other as cousins. I've read another fantasy book where a princess met a prince, 
and they were unrelated to each other and were from different nations, yet they 
referred to each other as "cousin."

I just always considered Arutha's reference to Pug as a cousin to be something 
similar to the "royal we."

I was off the list for a couple days when my mail server died...did Ray 
contribute to this discussion at all?
---
  "All men are moral. Only their neighbors are not."
  - character from a John Steinbeck novel (I forget which character/novel)



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Subject: Re: Slight confusion...
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The term prince really is not all that clear to interprete.

It can be the title of any sovereign other then a king (or technically 
emperor). Technically for instance, the vice counts of Bearn (Pyrenee 
region of France) were princes as they were not enfeoved to any other 
nobles (at least not for the viscounty of Bearn). This also applis to 
the Princes of Wales (the real ones, not British heirs who are now 
called such), who had sovereignty over their territories but were not 
called kings. The Tzar's of Russia were long known as Princes of Moscow etc.

Sons of kings are also generally called princes (but so are for instance 
the sons of the Grand Duke of Luxembourg and many other sovereign 
territories).

In some cases this title of prince has been transmitted through the 
royal lines redardless of degree of relationship with the current 
crowned head.

Also, some noble families were given the title of Prince even though 
they were not directly descended from the royal line etc.


Another case are German Princes (Furst) who held electroal powers 
withing the Holy Roman Empire (they were generally dukes or counts, but 
through their electoral powers also princes, latr many became kings 
instead of their older titles).

By the way just to claryify somethings. Titles were really not quite as 
important during the medieval period as it may seem today. Land 
ownership as well as offices often meant more.

Official hierarchy of noble titles may be listed as follows:

sovereigns
I) Emperor, Empereur, Kaiser, Imperator... semi religious office
II) King, Roi, König, Rey, Rex... Sovereign
III) Prince, Prince, Fürst (Prinz), Princeps... sovereign, related to 
sovereign or other
great nobility or peerage
IV) Arch Duke, Archiduc, Erzherzog... first duke
V) Duke, Duc, Herzog, Dux... military chief, elected or nominated by 
sovereign
VI) Margrave (Marquis), Marquis, Mark Graf... count of a border march
VII) Palatin count of the royal household
VIII) Count (Earl), Comte, Graf, Comites (Comes)... compagnion, old nobility
lesser nobility
IX) Viscount, Vicomte... assistant or vassal of count (or any peer)
X) Baron, Baron, Baro... free man, vassal of king or peer
other
XI) Bannerman, Banneret... leader of knights (roughly 50 knights)
XII) Lord, Seigneur... noble having several vassals
XIII) Vavasseur... vassal but not lord
XIV) Vassal non chasé... landless vassal
XV) Bound Knight (Ministerial), Chevalier-Serf, Ministeriales unfree 
(obviously not noble, at least originally)

other terms not directly within this hierarchy
a) Knight, Chevalier, Ritter, Milites... military elite
b) Squire, ecuyer, Knappe, Scutaris... young man who assists a knight
c) Page, Page, Page... boy child who assists a knight
d) Sergeant, Sergent... other form of professional fighter
e) Soldier (Mercenary), Mercenaire (Soldat), Söldner (Soldat)... may be 
a knight or other paid warrior

offices
1) Senechal, Sénéchal... 1st officer of sovereign, 1st judge
2) Constable, Connétable, Comes Stabuli... master of horse, commander of 
cavalry
3) Marshal, Maréchal... master of the royal stables, assistant to constable
4) Provost, Prévot (Préposé)... agent of the realm
5) Bailiff, Bailli... governor
6) Captain, Captal, Kapitàn... governor of a royal residence, later 
commander of a company
forgot Steward which belongs in here too

I will not delve further into other terms such as

Sovereign, suzerain, vassal, ban, rear-ban, host or ost, chevauchée, 
guard or garde, peer, chatelain, serf, commoner or roturier, freeman etc.

in theory addresses for various nobles are as follows

King majesty
Prince highness
Duke lordship
Margrave lordship
Count lordship
Viscount mylord
Baron mylord
Banneret sir
Lord sir
Landed Knight sir
Landless Knight sir
Bound Knight sir

All of that listing was done for my own world Kemenfae (it is already a 
simplified model).

Always remember that any noble may bear more then one title and/or 
office (viscounts of Bearn were also for a while counts of Foy and on 
occasional held a royal office as well, at least one claimed the title 
of King of Languedoc, some were also kings of Aragon I believe). But the 
one highest in the theoretical hierarchy might not necessarily be the 
one that gives them most power (Bearn was deemed more important then Foi 
by Gaston who claimed sovereignty over Languedoc at one point).

For much of the middle ages counts would also be much more powerful then 
dukes (counts were old nobility long bound to one land, dueks had had 
much less time to improve their position within society). Kings were 
usually much weaker themselves then their peers (even more so the 
Emperor). Knighthood as such is not a title (though the later english 
system differs), but all great nobles would generally be knighted by 
their majority, other nobility taking longer and commoners rarelly being 
raised (though originally this was quite common). Ministeriales while 
unfree serfs could rise to knightood (but would still be unfree) and 
provided the backbone of the German King/Emperor's household army.

By the way, even the term cousin should be looked uppon with caution (my 
US relatives were always astounded that I called them such while our 
degree of relation would be deemed minor). It simply means any family 
beyond mother, father, daughter, son, sister, brother, grand mother or 
grand father.

enough of this now, I applaud anyone who read this far, but always 
remember all I wrote above is a simplification of sorts. An actual 
feudal society was much more complex and often contradictory.

Marc aka Caran... of ministeriale and luckily not noble descent (except 
for some bastardry I'm sure)


cdunemann wrote:

>In Mistress of the Empire Pug is Speaking with lady Mara about how she 
>should refer to him. He states that he is a Prince among other things. So 
>wouldn't that make him more than a cousin?
>




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Find me any royals not related to one another. I very much doubt such 
exist. I recall how proud many monarchists were over here for Prince 
Henry (now Grand Duke)'s wedding, that his bride Maria Theresa Mestre 
(now Grand Duchess of course) proved to be related (while she is from a 
relatively minor family) to the Nassaus of Luxembourg (the true house of 
Luxembourg has been extinct in it's main branch for centuries, the minor 
branches are probably now also extinct).

Marc aka Caran...

Earl Borah wrote:

>
>I think some of the confusion has been when Arutha and others have referred to 
>Pug as their "cousin." I think this is more to make the point that Pug *IS* 
>royalty, through adoption -- I think it's traditional that royals refer to each 
>other as cousins. I've read another fantasy book where a princess met a prince, 
>and they were unrelated to each other and were from different nations, yet they 
>referred to each other as "cousin."
>
>I just always considered Arutha's reference to Pug as a cousin to be something 
>similar to the "royal we."
>



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As I said, it was a fantasy book. Since the prince and princess in
question lived on opposite sides of a large continent, and only met
after the princess was magically transported far from her realm, the
two were truly not related.

To put it in terms of Ray's books...how close a relation do you
suppose there is between Arutha and the queen of Kesh? Since she'd be
a Trueblood, and Arutha obviously isn't, there wouldn't be much of a
chance of relation, would there? And any blood ties that might exist
would most certainly be formally ignored by Kesh.

If you want a more historical reference...show me how closely a king
of England from a few centuries ago was related to a ruler in China or
Japan from the same time period.  Geography changes things.


> Find me any royals not related to one another. I very much doubt such 
> exist. I recall how proud many monarchists were over here for Prince 


> > other as cousins. I've read another fantasy book where a princess met a
> >prince, and they were unrelated to each other and were from different nations,
> >yet they referred to each other as "cousin."
> >
> >I just always considered Arutha's reference to Pug as a cousin to be something
> >similar to the "royal we."



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In a message dated 5/21/2002 2:56:06 PM Eastern Daylight Time, earl@ncn.com 
writes:


> I just always considered Arutha's reference to Pug as a cousin to be 
> something
> similar to the "royal we."


I always thought that the royal "we" was referring to "I and God", a way of 
thinking brought on by the Divine Right of Kings. But then again, when I 
assume, I make an ass out of everyone around and me :-).

                                                             Peace,
                                                                         Matt




"This is not Nam. There are rules here."- Walter Sobchak

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>        Wow, does it sometimes piss you off that many people think you have
> not matched your first attempt at serious writing, in another work?

I don't know what you mean by 'many people' - is that 'many people' you
know, or just 'you'

Silverthorn,ADaS, the empire trilogy are as good as Magician IMOHO.

> I do
> belive Magician is you best, but I think that is more because at the pace we
> learn about all the characters and about the land of Midkemia than your
> writing skill, and the fact that it was my first fantasy novel.  I felt when
> I was reading Magican it was like reading something a freind had wrote, the
> cornyness (is that even a word?) of some of it actually made me fell more at
> home with your work, probably because I was only about 13 then.  Now I'm a
> smart, mature, and hard-working 16 year old adult.

Are you implying that 'now that you're 16' magician seems corny? Yet just
before you said it was Ray's best work...?!

Sorry mate, but judging on the basis of you're response, you have a long
way to becoming an adult (plus isn't 18 generally the legal age for
'adulthood'?)


Thanks
Darragh
================================================
University of Queensland
Information Technology / Arts (History) student
[Email #1] s356179@student.uq.edu.au
[Email #2] squik@solutionone.com.au
[Web Site] http://hainsworth.ath.cx/~squik/
================================================



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 17:48:14 -0600
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Darragh Murray wrote:
> 
> Sorry mate, but judging on the basis of you're response, you have a long
> way to becoming an adult (plus isn't 18 generally the legal age for
> 'adulthood'?)

Age is one thing, maturity is another.

Doesn't sound he like has the maturity of a 16 year old, much less 18.

Craig J. Ries



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*** EOOH ***
From: Gkhd11a@aol.com
Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 21:30:53 EDT
Subject: Re: A lot of questions
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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In a message dated 5/21/02 6:45:18 PM Central Daylight Time, 
s356179@student.uq.edu.au writes:


> >        Wow, does it sometimes piss you off that many people think you have
> > not matched your first attempt at serious writing, in another work?
> 
> I don't know what you mean by 'many people' - is that 'many people' you
> know, or just 'you'
> 
> Silverthorn,ADaS, the empire trilogy are as good as Magician IMOHO.
> 
> I do
> > belive Magician is you best, but I think that is more because at the pace 
> we
> > learn about all the characters and about the land of Midkemia than your
> > writing skill, and the fact that it was my first fantasy novel.  I felt 
> when
> > I was reading Magican it was like reading something a freind had wrote, 
> the
> > cornyness (is that even a word?) of some of it actually made me fell more 
> at
> > home with your work, probably because I was only about 13 then.  Now I'm a
> > smart, mature, and hard-working 16 year old adult.
> 
> Are you implying that 'now that you're 16' magician seems corny? Yet just
> before you said it was Ray's best work...?!
> 
> Sorry mate, but judging on the basis of you're response, you have a long
> way to becoming an adult (plus isn't 18 generally the legal age for
> 'adulthood'?)

       If I ment "me" I would have said "me".  I know several other people 
who think magician is the best book they have ever read, and most of those 
people read and loved Lord of the Rings as well as many other fantasy books, 
so these aren't ignorant people.  And keep in mind I said many people, not 
most people, which are two very different things.  There are lots of fans of 
Feist, with a long range of opinions of his work, and most of the people who 
prefer Magician over Feist tend to be young teenagers, like I was.  

>Are you implying that 'now that you're
>16' magician seems corny? Yet just
>before you said it was Ray's best work...?!

I did not say Magician was corny, I said parts of it where.  A prime example 
is when Tomas and Pug talk about how they hope to become a powerful warrior 
and magician respetivly, and then surprisingly at the end, bam, they end 
being a powerful warrior and magician.  It has the feeling of being a very 
light book and at parts it was corny IMO.

And as for why I said "Now I'm a smart, mature, and hard-working 16 year old 
adult" I was making a joke about when I said "probably because I was only 
about 13 then" because it makes it seem like I am saying that I am a lot 
older and more mature now, which it seems to me, but yet that was only 3 
years ago.  As for my maturity, if going to school for 6 hours, then coming 
home and doing homework for an hour, then working on my writing for three 
hours, and then reading about 40 pages of a book before doing anything else, 
such as going on-line like I am now or watching TV, then I don't know what 
maturity is.  I hope you all would understand why I get angry when people 
consider me the same as all other teenagers, when all I'm seeing them 
(teenagers) do is bitch about how there life sucks when they aren't getting 
high or getting laid.  All right, most don't go that far, but unfortunatly 
far to many of my "freinds" do.

Thanks for letting me vent.

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*** EOOH ***
From: "Jeff Weidemann" <jeff@pronto.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: A lot of questions
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Gee, I ruled the world when I was 16, now just a humble member of the
feistfans list.... and I have re-read magician, corny it aint!   

-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Craig J. Ries
>Sent: Wednesday, 22 May 2002 9:48 AM
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: Re: A lot of questions
>
>
>Darragh Murray wrote:
>> 
>> Sorry mate, but judging on the basis of you're response, you have a 
>> long way to becoming an adult (plus isn't 18 generally the legal age 
>> for
>> 'adulthood'?)
>
>Age is one thing, maturity is another.
>
>Doesn't sound he like has the maturity of a 16 year old, much less 18.
>
>Craig J. Ries
>


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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: A lot of questions (incoming rant)
Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 21:36:36 -0500
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>        If I ment "me" I would have said "me".  I know several other people
> who think magician is the best book they have ever read, and most of
> those people read and loved Lord of the Rings as well as many other
> fantasy books, so these aren't ignorant people.  And keep in mind I said
> many people, not most people, which are two very different things.
> There are lots of fans of Feist, with a long range of opinions of his work,
> and most of the people who prefer Magician over Feist tend to be young
> teenagers, like I was.

    Oh dear, where to start.  I suppose at the top.  My apologies to
Rip for taking the first crack at this.  (He hadn't sent a reply in
when I finished typing this).  For those of you who hate to see a
rant and an outright flame, feel free to ignore this post.
    First of all it is "meant", use a spell checker when ranting
because when we decided to return the favor this is just extra ammo
for us.  My spellchecker caught over half a dozen errors in your
post with a quick scan.  I fixed most of them, but left "ment" alone
for punctuation.
    Second of all several people does not constitute a valid poll of
the overall population.  For statistically analysis no less than
1024 must be polled to provide a reasonable level of certainty in
any such rating system.  This is of course just basic statistics.
    Third thing: reading a lot of fantasy books doesn't make you any
less ignorant of a person.  You can read lots of them and still be
pretty ignorant of society, reality, and other genres.  Lord of the
Rings, as much as I like it, isn't the be all and end all of
Fantasy, don't refer it is as if it was.
    The proper phrase is "wide range" not long range.
    Again you say that the majority of readers that prefer Feist are
young teens.  Do you have the statistics?  Are you aware of the
ratios involved?  Do you have any proof of any of these things?
Think before you spew numbers that you can't support or put into
proper context.  Remember the majority of Fantasy readers may just
be <GASP> young adults (13-18)!
    Prefer Magician over Feist?  Does it occur to you that is a
completely contradictory statement?  Magician is Feist.

> I did not say Magician was corny, I said parts of it where.  A prime example
> is when Tomas and Pug talk about how they hope to become a powerful
> warrior and magician respectively, and then surprisingly at the end, bam, they
> end being a powerful warrior and magician.  It has the feeling of being a very
> light book and at parts it was corny IMO.

    Yes you did, twice now.  Once by inference, once by direct
comment.  You're contradicting yourself.  I suggest breaking that
habit.
     As for the magician/warrior thing, that could be viewed as
foreshadowing, which REF used frequently enough that it is a part of
his plot devices.  Criticizing a plot device that is certainly valid
is rather inane.  Besides which it fits the character's mentality.
Besides which, did you ever think that a lot of people choose their
careers based on things they said as children?  It happens.  Don't
knock it.
    Oh, and stop assuming we are going to agree that it is some how
corny.  Frankly as a whole the novel is quite engaging even later in
life.

> And as for why I said "Now I'm a smart, mature, and hard-working 16 year
> old adult" I was making a joke about when I said "probably because I was
> only about 13 then" because it makes it seem like I am saying that I am a lot
> older and more mature now, which it seems to me, but yet that was only 3
> years ago.  As for my maturity, if going to school for 6 hours, then coming
> home and doing homework for an hour, then working on my writing for three
> hours, and then reading about 40 pages of a book before doing anything
> else, such as going on-line like I am now or watching TV, then I don't know
> what maturity is.

    For starters you have yet to prove you are an intellect to be
dealt with on a level above average.  You are referring to traits
common to many teenagers.  Most kids come home and do homework, and
a great deal of them write.  Be it diaries, journals, stories,
poetry.  You are not unique in that.  Nor are you unique in reading
40 pages of a book prior to watching television or playing video
games.  A number of us on this list have been doing exactly that
(reading, writing, and homework) since well before we were teens,
and many of us continue to do so.  You will not get kudos for doing
what the majority of us think is normal behavior.  Don't try and pat
yourself on the back for it.  Why?  Simply put because it shows just
how immature you are.  If you've matured since you were 13, I'd hate
to have seen you post then, since we've had younger posters who are
so much more interesting to listen to than you have proven to be.

> I hope you all would understand why I get angry when people
> consider me the same as all other teenagers, when all I'm seeing them
> (teenagers) do is bitch about how there life sucks when they aren't getting
> high or getting laid.  All right, most don't go that far, but unfortunately
> far to many of my "friends" do.

    You are generalizing your age group. I think some of the other
teens on this list might object to being classified as you describe
them.  Besides which, your generalization is over-reaching to say
the least, and not particularly grounded in a clear view of reality.
Partially because all you did with this letter is bitch about how
life sucks when someone insinuates you are being immature and how
you should be treated differently.  Well, if you want to be treated
like an adult: "Act like one".  Your previous posts don't reflect
well on that goal.  You have neither thought out arguments, nor an
interest in rational discussion.  Hence I must classify you as an
immature individual.  Regardless of your age.

> Thanks for letting me vent.

I don't recall being asked if I wanted to hear you vent.  Hence the
reason I am not just "letting" you do so with impunity.

-James (returning the rant, and damn near done with this poster,
Killfile the next time I see him reply with something this inane)





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From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: A lot of questions
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Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 14:17:37 +1000 (GMT+1000)
From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: A lot of questions
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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> > >        Wow, does it sometimes piss you off that many people think you have
> > > not matched your first attempt at serious writing, in another work?
> > I don't know what you mean by 'many people' - is that 'many people' you
> > know, or just 'you'
> > Silverthorn,ADaS, the empire trilogy are as good as Magician IMOHO.
> > I do
> > > belive Magician is you best, but I think that is more because at the pace
> > we
> > > learn about all the characters and about the land of Midkemia than your
> > > writing skill, and the fact that it was my first fantasy novel.  I felt
> > when
> > > I was reading Magican it was like reading something a freind had wrote,
> > the
> > > cornyness (is that even a word?) of some of it actually made me fell more
> > at
> > > home with your work, probably because I was only about 13 then.  Now I'm a
> > > smart, mature, and hard-working 16 year old adult.
> > Are you implying that 'now that you're 16' magician seems corny? Yet just
> > before you said it was Ray's best work...?!
> > Sorry mate, but judging on the basis of you're response, you have a long
> > way to becoming an adult (plus isn't 18 generally the legal age for
> > 'adulthood'?)
>        If I ment "me" I would have said "me".  I know several other people
> who think magician is the best book they have ever read, and most of those
> people read and loved Lord of the Rings as well as many other fantasy books,
> so these aren't ignorant people.  And keep in mind I said many people, not
> most people, which are two very different things.  There are lots of fans of
> Feist, with a long range of opinions of his work, and most of the people who
> prefer Magician over Feist tend to be young teenagers, like I was.


Thats the problem. Knowing several people who like/dislike a book, do not
constitute the majority, or even 'many' in comparision to the total number
of Ray's readers. See James's post on the statistical explanation.


> I did not say Magician was corny, I said parts of it where.  A prime example
> is when Tomas and Pug talk about how they hope to become a powerful warrior
> and magician respetivly, and then surprisingly at the end, bam, they end
> being a powerful warrior and magician.  It has the feeling of being a very
> light book and at parts it was corny IMO.

If you're 'not ignorant' like you imply, you should be aware that this is
a technique common to many fantasy and non-fantasy books.


> And as for why I said "Now I'm a smart, mature, and hard-working 16 year old
> adult" I was making a joke about when I said "probably because I was only
> about 13 then" because it makes it seem like I am saying that I am a lot
> older and more mature now, which it seems to me, but yet that was only 3
> years ago.  As for my maturity, if going to school for 6 hours, then coming
> home and doing homework for an hour, then working on my writing for three
> hours, and then reading about 40 pages of a book before doing anything else,
> such as going on-line like I am now or watching TV, then I don't know what
> maturity is.  I hope you all would understand why I get angry when people
> consider me the same as all other teenagers, when all I'm seeing them
> (teenagers) do is bitch about how there life sucks when they aren't getting
> high or getting laid.  All right, most don't go that far, but unfortunatly
> far to many of my "freinds" do.
> Thanks for letting me vent.

Again, this is only from your perspective. 'Maturity' can be a misleading.
I know a few hard working, dedicated, but 'immature' people (maybe
delibrately though, 'normal life' can get a bit stressing ;).

Thanks
Darragh
================================================
University of Queensland
Information Technology / Arts (History) student
[Email #1] s356179@student.uq.edu.au
[Email #2] squik@solutionone.com.au
[Web Site] http://hainsworth.ath.cx/~squik/
================================================



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Subject: Re: A lot of questions (incoming rant)
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From: "Mark Tonkin" <shadowfire@chariot.net.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: A lot of questions (incoming rant)
Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 20:14:33 +0930
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----- Original Message -----
From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2002 12:06 PM
Subject: Re: A lot of questions (incoming rant)

<SNIP>
> -James (returning the rant, and damn near done with this poster,
> Killfile the next time I see him reply with something this inane)

And I'm about to put you in my kill file for not having anything nice to say
about anybody.  Yes, he made some generalisations and some mistakes, but he
is young and is still learning.  The message wasn't offensive and didn't
deserve such a personal attack.  All I have heard from you over the past
year have been rants about what is not allowed on this list and pointing out
the mistakes that everybody makes.  You seem to make a habit of
participating in flame wars and often perpetuating them (even if not
intentional).

Are we not supposed to be a multicultural and diverse group of people of all
ages from many different nationalities?  We accept poor English from people
who do not speak it as their first language, but why do we not accept people
who don't know any better?

If you want to berate somebody for not knowing as much as you (or me for
sending this message in the first place), please in the future do so off the
list.

- MARK

========================================
Dilbert's rules of order #2:
"I love deadlines.  I especially like the wooshing
sound they make as they go flying by."



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Subject: Re: A lot of questions (incoming rant)
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*** EOOH ***
From: RBlackley@aol.com
Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 06:46:50 EDT
Subject: Re: A lot of questions (incoming rant)
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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You know what James, I don't think that that was really nessecary.  This is a 
list of Feist Fans and all he did (in the pevious post) was tell hs opiniums. 
 Even if everyone (hell even if no one) agrees with them does that really 
give you the right to flame him?  Also this e-mail here, I personally took it 
as an apoligy, one thing I have noticed about this list is the lack of 
respect for apoligising.  Now, IMHO, to apoligise is quite hard, and when you 
are 16 its even harder (because you are supposed to know everythng)  so my 
responce to this e-mail would not be a flame.  Yup thats pretty much it.  It 
just bothers me a little how hostile this list can be sometimes.  One doesn;t 
have to be mature to be a Feist fan, so why have people been talking about 
how he (gkhd11a@aol.com) is not mature enough to be 16.   It sounds to me 
like people have a little too much time on their hands.  Well thats it, bye.


Richard




> 
>     Oh dear, where to start.  I suppose at the top.  My apologies to
> Rip for taking the first crack at this.  (He hadn't sent a reply in
> when I finished typing this).  For those of you who hate to see a
> rant and an outright flame, feel free to ignore this post.
>     First of all it is "meant", use a spell checker when ranting
> because when we decided to return the favor this is just extra ammo
> for us.  My spellchecker caught over half a dozen errors in your
> post with a quick scan.  I fixed most of them, but left "ment" alone
> for punctuation.
>     Second of all several people does not constitute a valid poll of
> the overall population.  For statistically analysis no less than
> 1024 must be polled to provide a reasonable level of certainty in
> any such rating system.  This is of course just basic statistics.
>     Third thing: reading a lot of fantasy books doesn't make you any
> less ignorant of a person.  You can read lots of them and still be
> pretty ignorant of society, reality, and other genres.  Lord of the
> Rings, as much as I like it, isn't the be all and end all of
> Fantasy, don't refer it is as if it was.
>     The proper phrase is "wide range" not long range.
>     Again you say that the majority of readers that prefer Feist are
> young teens.  Do you have the statistics?  Are you aware of the
> ratios involved?  Do you have any proof of any of these things?
> Think before you spew numbers that you can't support or put into
> proper context.  Remember the majority of Fantasy readers may just
> be <GASP> young adults (13-18)!
>     Prefer Magician over Feist?  Does it occur to you that is a
> completely contradictory statement?  Magician is Feist.
> 
> 
>     Yes you did, twice now.  Once by inference, once by direct
> comment.  You're contradicting yourself.  I suggest breaking that
> habit.
>      As for the magician/warrior thing, that could be viewed as
> foreshadowing, which REF used frequently enough that it is a part of
> his plot devices.  Criticizing a plot device that is certainly valid
> is rather inane.  Besides which it fits the character's mentality.
> Besides which, did you ever think that a lot of people choose their
> careers based on things they said as children?  It happens.  Don't
> knock it.
>     Oh, and stop assuming we are going to agree that it is some how
> corny.  Frankly as a whole the novel is quite engaging even later in
> life.
> 
> 
>     For starters you have yet to prove you are an intellect to be
> dealt with on a level above average.  You are referring to traits
> common to many teenagers.  Most kids come home and do homework, and
> a great deal of them write.  Be it diaries, journals, stories,
> poetry.  You are not unique in that.  Nor are you unique in reading
> 40 pages of a book prior to watching television or playing video
> games.  A number of us on this list have been doing exactly that
> (reading, writing, and homework) since well before we were teens,
> and many of us continue to do so.  You will not get kudos for doing
> what the majority of us think is normal behavior.  Don't try and pat
> yourself on the back for it.  Why?  Simply put because it shows just
> how immature you are.  If you've matured since you were 13, I'd hate
> to have seen you post then, since we've had younger posters who are
> so much more interesting to listen to than you have proven to be.
> 
> 
> 
>     You are generalizing your age group. I think some of the other
> teens on this list might object to being classified as you describe
> them.  Besides which, your generalization is over-reaching to say
> the least, and not particularly grounded in a clear view of reality.
> Partially because all you did with this letter is bitch about how
> life sucks when someone insinuates you are being immature and how
> you should be treated differently.  Well, if you want to be treated
> like an adult: "Act like one".  Your previous posts don't reflect
> well on that goal.  You have neither thought out arguments, nor an
> interest in rational discussion.  Hence I must classify you as an
> immature individual.  Regardless of your age.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't recall being asked if I wanted to hear you vent.  Hence the
> reason I am not just "letting" you do so with impunity.
> 
> -James (returning the rant, and damn near done with this poster,
> Killfile the next time I see him reply with something this inane)


-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Donal K. Fellows" <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: A lot of questions (incoming rant)
Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 13:29:13 +0100
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

"Mark Tonkin" <shadowfire@chariot.net.au>
> "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
>> -James (returning the rant, and damn near done with this poster,
>> Killfile the next time I see him reply with something this inane)
> 
> And I'm about to put you in my kill file for not having anything nice to say
> about anybody.

So you are not going to talk about this further on this list?  That's
*extremely* cool with me... <g>

Donal (If you feel someone's offended you, take it off-list unless you
       have a very good reason, because third-parties tend to find
       responses to offense to be offensive in themselves.  That way
       lies flame-wars.)
-- 
Donal K. Fellows, Department of Computer Science, University of Manchester, UK.
(work) fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk     Tel: +44-161-275-6137  (preferred email addr.)
(home) donal@ugglan.demon.co.uk  Tel: +44-1274-401017   Mobile: +44-7957-298955
http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~fellowsd/  (Don't quote my .sig; I've seen it before!)



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From: "Dave Curran" <dave@davecurran.co.uk>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: REF look-alike?!?!?
Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 15:52:25 +0100
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Dave Curran" <dave@davecurran.co.uk>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: REF look-alike?!?!?
Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 15:52:25 +0100
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I've been holding back from raising this point for ages, but, with all 
the Star Wars publicity recently it keeps staring me in the face.
Did it ever occur to anyone else, that Ray's picture at the crydee.com
rogues gallery looks suspiciously like George Lucas?

If not check it out...

http://www.crydee.com/feist/feistfans/feistfansindex.htm

...and just type George Lucas into google images for comparison.

Any comment George... I mean Ray!


...Dave... 

Success is the journey, not the destination.
Remember to enjoy today!

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From: "authement" <authement@delanet.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: A lot of questions (incoming rant)
Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 11:04:44 -0400
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*** EOOH ***
From: "authement" <authement@delanet.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: A lot of questions (incoming rant)
Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 11:04:44 -0400
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I am sorry Richard, your post is absolutely meaningless because you
misspelled a couple of words and used incorrect punctuation (just wanted to
save a few folks some time and effort).

-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On
>Behalf Of RBlackley@aol.com
>Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2002 6:47 AM
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: Re: A lot of questions (incoming rant)
>
>You know what James, I don't think that that was really nessecary.  This is
>a list of Feist Fans and all he did (in the pevious post) was tell hs
>opiniums.  Even if everyone (hell even if no one) agrees with them does that
>really give you the right to flame him?  Also this e-mail here, I personally
>took it as an apoligy, one thing I have noticed about this list is the lack
>of respect for apoligising.  Now, IMHO, to apoligise is quite hard, and when
>you are 16 its even harder (because you are supposed to know everythng)  so
>my responce to this e-mail would not be a flame.  Yup thats pretty much it.
>It just bothers me a little how hostile this list can be sometimes.  One
>doesn;t have to be mature to be a Feist fan, so why have people been talking
>about how he (gkhd11a@aol.com) is not mature enough to be 16.   It sounds to
>me like people have ! ! a little too much time on their hands.  Well thats
>it, bye.
>
>
>Richard
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>    Oh dear, where to start.  I suppose at the top.  My apologies to
>Rip for taking the first crack at this.  (He hadn't sent a reply in
>when I finished typing this).  For those of you who hate to see a
>rant and an outright flame, feel free to ignore this post.
>    First of all it is "meant", use a spell checker when ranting
>because when we decided to return the favor this is just extra ammo
>for us.  My spellchecker caught over half a dozen errors in your
>post with a quick scan.  I fixed most of them, but left "ment" alone
>for punctuation.
>    Second of all several people does not constitute a valid poll of
>the overall population.  For statistically analysis no less than
>1024 must be polled to provide a reasonable level of certainty in
>any such rating system.  This is of course just basic statistics.
>    Third thing: reading a lot of fantasy books doesn't make you any
>less ignorant of a person.  You can read lots of them and still be
>pretty ignorant of society, reality, and other genres.  Lord of the
>Rings, as much as I like it, isn't the be all and end all of
>Fantasy, don't refer it is as if it was.
>    The proper phrase is "wide range" not long range.
>    Again you say that the majority of readers that prefer Feist are
>young teens.  Do you have the statistics?  Are you aware of the
>ratios involved?  Do you have any proof of any of these things?
>Think before you spew numbers that you can't support or put into
>proper context.  Remember the majority of Fantasy readers may just
>be <GASP> young adults (13-18)!
>    Prefer Magician over Feist?  Does it occur to you that is a
>completely contradictory statement?  Magician is Feist.
>
>
>    Yes you did, twice now.  Once by inference, once by direct
>comment.  You're contradicting yourself.  I suggest breaking that
>habit.
>     As for the magician/warrior thing, that could be viewed as
>foreshadowing, which REF used frequently enough that it is a part of
>his plot devices.  Criticizing a plot device that is certainly valid
>is rather inane.  Besides which it fits the character's mentality.
>Besides which, did you ever think that a lot of people choose their
>careers based on things they said as children?  It happens.  Don't
>knock it.
>    Oh, and stop assuming we are going to agree that it is some how
>corny.  Frankly as a whole the novel is quite engaging even later in
>life.
>
>
>    For starters you have yet to prove you are an intellect to be
>dealt with on a level above average.  You are referring to traits
>common to many teenagers.  Most kids come home and do homework, and
>a great deal of them write.  Be it diaries, journals, stories,
>poetry.  You are not unique in that.  Nor are you unique in reading
>40 pages of a book prior to watching television or playing video
>games.  A number of us on this list have been doing exactly that
>(reading, writing, and homework) since well before we were teens,
>and many of us continue to do so.  You will not get kudos for doing
>what the majority of us think is normal behavior.  Don't try and pat
>yourself on the back for it.  Why?  Simply put because it shows just
>how immature you are.  If you've matured since you were 13, I'd hate
>to have seen you post then, since we've had younger posters who are
>so much more interesting to listen to than you have proven to be.
>
>
>
>    You are generalizing your age group. I think some of the other
>teens on this list might object to being classified as you describe
>them.  Besides which, your generalization is over-reaching to say
>the least, and not particularly grounded in a clear view of reality.
>Partially because all you did with this letter is bitch about how
>life sucks when someone insinuates you are being immature and how
>you should be treated differently.  Well, if you want to be treated
>like an adult: "Act like one".  Your previous posts don't reflect
>well on that goal.  You have neither thought out arguments, nor an
>interest in rational discussion.  Hence I must classify you as an
>immature individual.  Regardless of your age.
>
>
>
>I don't recall being asked if I wanted to hear you vent.  Hence the
>reason I am not just "letting" you do so with impunity.
>
>-James (returning the rant, and damn near done with this poster,
>Killfile the next time I see him reply with something this inane)
>
>
>
>-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
>"We don't want to go back to tomorrow, we want to go forward."
>Dan Quayle
>-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-

1, edited,,
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From: "authement" <authement@delanet.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: A lot of questions (incoming rant)
Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 11:04:39 -0400
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*** EOOH ***
From: "authement" <authement@delanet.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: A lot of questions (incoming rant)
Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 11:04:39 -0400
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I would like to nominate James to lead the Welcoming Committee.  By the
way…I thinks it’s statistical analysis, not statistically analysis. :-)

-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On
>Behalf Of RBlackley@aol.com
>Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2002 6:47 AM
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: Re: A lot of questions (incoming rant)
>
>You know what James, I don't think that that was really nessecary.  This is
>a list of Feist Fans and all he did (in the pevious post) was tell hs
>opiniums.  Even if everyone (hell even if no one) agrees with them does that
>really give you the right to flame him?  Also this e-mail here, I personally
>took it as an apoligy, one thing I have noticed about this list is the lack
>of respect for apoligising.  Now, IMHO, to apoligise is quite hard, and when
>you are 16 its even harder (because you are supposed to know everythng)  so
>my responce to this e-mail would not be a flame.  Yup thats pretty much it.
>It just bothers me a little how hostile this list can be sometimes.  One
>doesn;t have to be mature to be a Feist fan, so why have people been talking
>about how he (gkhd11a@aol.com) is not mature enough to be 16.   It sounds to
>me like people have ! ! a little too much time on their hands.  Well thats
>it, bye.
>
>
>Richard
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>    Oh dear, where to start.  I suppose at the top.  My apologies to
>Rip for taking the first crack at this.  (He hadn't sent a reply in
>when I finished typing this).  For those of you who hate to see a
>rant and an outright flame, feel free to ignore this post.
>    First of all it is "meant", use a spell checker when ranting
>because when we decided to return the favor this is just extra ammo
>for us.  My spellchecker caught over half a dozen errors in your
>post with a quick scan.  I fixed most of them, but left "ment" alone
>for punctuation.
>    Second of all several people does not constitute a valid poll of
>the overall population.  For statistically analysis no less than
>1024 must be polled to provide a reasonable level of certainty in
>any such rating system.  This is of course just basic statistics.
>    Third thing: reading a lot of fantasy books doesn't make you any
>less ignorant of a person.  You can read lots of them and still be
>pretty ignorant of society, reality, and other genres.  Lord of the
>Rings, as much as I like it, isn't the be all and end all of
>Fantasy, don't refer it is as if it was.
>    The proper phrase is "wide range" not long range.
>    Again you say that the majority of readers that prefer Feist are
>young teens.  Do you have the statistics?  Are you aware of the
>ratios involved?  Do you have any proof of any of these things?
>Think before you spew numbers that you can't support or put into
>proper context.  Remember the majority of Fantasy readers may just
>be <GASP> young adults (13-18)!
>    Prefer Magician over Feist?  Does it occur to you that is a
>completely contradictory statement?  Magician is Feist.
>
>
>    Yes you did, twice now.  Once by inference, once by direct
>comment.  You're contradicting yourself.  I suggest breaking that
>habit.
>     As for the magician/warrior thing, that could be viewed as
>foreshadowing, which REF used frequently enough that it is a part of
>his plot devices.  Criticizing a plot device that is certainly valid
>is rather inane.  Besides which it fits the character's mentality.
>Besides which, did you ever think that a lot of people choose their
>careers based on things they said as children?  It happens.  Don't
>knock it.
>    Oh, and stop assuming we are going to agree that it is some how
>corny.  Frankly as a whole the novel is quite engaging even later in
>life.
>
>
>    For starters you have yet to prove you are an intellect to be
>dealt with on a level above average.  You are referring to traits
>common to many teenagers.  Most kids come home and do homework, and
>a great deal of them write.  Be it diaries, journals, stories,
>poetry.  You are not unique in that.  Nor are you unique in reading
>40 pages of a book prior to watching television or playing video
>games.  A number of us on this list have been doing exactly that
>(reading, writing, and homework) since well before we were teens,
>and many of us continue to do so.  You will not get kudos for doing
>what the majority of us think is normal behavior.  Don't try and pat
>yourself on the back for it.  Why?  Simply put because it shows just
>how immature you are.  If you've matured since you were 13, I'd hate
>to have seen you post then, since we've had younger posters who are
>so much more interesting to listen to than you have proven to be.
>
>
>
>    You are generalizing your age group. I think some of the other
>teens on this list might object to being classified as you describe
>them.  Besides which, your generalization is over-reaching to say
>the least, and not particularly grounded in a clear view of reality.
>Partially because all you did with this letter is bitch about how
>life sucks when someone insinuates you are being immature and how
>you should be treated differently.  Well, if you want to be treated
>like an adult: "Act like one".  Your previous posts don't reflect
>well on that goal.  You have neither thought out arguments, nor an
>interest in rational discussion.  Hence I must classify you as an
>immature individual.  Regardless of your age.
>
>
>
>I don't recall being asked if I wanted to hear you vent.  Hence the
>reason I am not just "letting" you do so with impunity.
>
>-James (returning the rant, and damn near done with this poster,
>Killfile the next time I see him reply with something this inane)
>
>
>
>-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
>"We don't want to go back to tomorrow, we want to go forward."
>Dan Quayle
>-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-

1, edited,,
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From: "James Holden" <james@globalvision.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: A lot of questions (incoming rant)
Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 16:38:38 +0100
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Holden" <james@globalvision.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: A lot of questions (incoming rant)
Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 16:38:38 +0100
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

It's a mailing list about a writer and his books, not an internet protocol
discussion nor a flame paradise.

This list seems dominated with a select few who seem to thrive on certain
posts where they can display
thier knowledge about either what is in the F.A.Q, why we shouldnt write in
HTML or something equally
as boring.

This post must of taken you more than a few minutes to compose - and all to
show that you are older
and can put together a better string of words.

>> "we've had younger posters who are so much more interesting to listen to
>> than you have proven to be"

Too true.



>    Oh dear, where to start.  I suppose at the top.  My apologies to
>Rip for taking the first crack at this.  (He hadn't sent a reply in
>when I finished typing this).  For those of you who hate to see a
>rant and an outright flame, feel free to ignore this post.
>    First of all it is "meant", use a spell checker when ranting
>because when we decided to return the favor this is just extra ammo
>for us.  My spellchecker caught over half a dozen errors in your
>post with a quick scan.  I fixed most of them, but left "ment" alone
>for punctuation.
>    Second of all several people does not constitute a valid poll of
>the overall population.  For statistically analysis no less than
>1024 must be polled to provide a reasonable level of certainty in
>any such rating system.  This is of course just basic statistics.
>    Third thing: reading a lot of fantasy books doesn't make you any
>less ignorant of a person.  You can read lots of them and still be
>pretty ignorant of society, reality, and other genres.  Lord of the
>Rings, as much as I like it, isn't the be all and end all of
>Fantasy, don't refer it is as if it was.
>    The proper phrase is "wide range" not long range.
>    Again you say that the majority of readers that prefer Feist are
>young teens.  Do you have the statistics?  Are you aware of the
>ratios involved?  Do you have any proof of any of these things?
>Think before you spew numbers that you can't support or put into
>proper context.  Remember the majority of Fantasy readers may just
>be <GASP> young adults (13-18)!
>    Prefer Magician over Feist?  Does it occur to you that is a
>completely contradictory statement?  Magician is Feist.
>
>
>    Yes you did, twice now.  Once by inference, once by direct
>comment.  You're contradicting yourself.  I suggest breaking that
>habit.
>     As for the magician/warrior thing, that could be viewed as
>foreshadowing, which REF used frequently enough that it is a part of
>his plot devices.  Criticizing a plot device that is certainly valid
>is rather inane.  Besides which it fits the character's mentality.
>Besides which, did you ever think that a lot of people choose their
>careers based on things they said as children?  It happens.  Don't
>knock it.
>    Oh, and stop assuming we are going to agree that it is some how
>corny.  Frankly as a whole the novel is quite engaging even later in
>life.
>
>
>    For starters you have yet to prove you are an intellect to be
>dealt with on a level above average.  You are referring to traits
>common to many teenagers.  Most kids come home and do homework, and
>a great deal of them write.  Be it diaries, journals, stories,
>poetry.  You are not unique in that.  Nor are you unique in reading
>40 pages of a book prior to watching television or playing video
>games.  A number of us on this list have been doing exactly that
>(reading, writing, and homework) since well before we were teens,
>and many of us continue to do so.  You will not get kudos for doing
>what the majority of us think is normal behavior.  Don't try and pat
>yourself on the back for it.  Why?  Simply put because it shows just
>how immature you are.  If you've matured since you were 13, I'd hate
>to have seen you post then, since we've had younger posters who are
>so much more interesting to listen to than you have proven to be.
>
>
>
>    You are generalizing your age group. I think some of the other
>teens on this list might object to being classified as you describe
>them.  Besides which, your generalization is over-reaching to say
>the least, and not particularly grounded in a clear view of reality.
>Partially because all you did with this letter is bitch about how
>life sucks when someone insinuates you are being immature and how
>you should be treated differently.  Well, if you want to be treated
>like an adult: "Act like one".  Your previous posts don't reflect
>well on that goal.  You have neither thought out arguments, nor an
>interest in rational discussion.  Hence I must classify you as an
>immature individual.  Regardless of your age.
>
>
>
>I don't recall being asked if I wanted to hear you vent.  Hence the
>reason I am not just "letting" you do so with impunity.
>
>-James (returning the rant, and damn near done with this poster,
>Killfile the next time I see him reply with something this inane)

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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: RE: A lot of questions (incoming rant)
In-Reply-To: <EOEGLFBLIODKEIOHNAANMEBHECAA.james@globalvision.com>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 17:01:58 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: RE: A lot of questions (incoming rant)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Uh James?  What ever it is that you are doing, do you think
you could stop?  I'd ask you to turn off the HTML, but I'm
beginning to think that that is a wasted effort on my part.
Seems the people who would do, have done, and those that
can't be bothered can't be bothered no matter how many times
you ask...

Ah well.  It went on for a couple of screens and I gave up
before finding any content.  Sorry...

rip

At 16:38 22/05/2002, you wrote:
>"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word"> @font-face { font-family: Wingdings; } @font-face { font-family: Tahoma; } @font-face { font-family: Comic Sans MS; } @page Section1 {size: 8.5in 11.0in; margin: 1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in; mso-header-margin: .5in; mso-footer-margin: .5in; mso-paper-source: 0; } P.MsoNormal { FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman"; mso-style-parent: ""; mso-pagination: widow-orphan; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman" } LI.MsoNormal { FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman"; mso-style-parent: ""; mso-pagination: widow-orphan; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman" } DIV.MsoNormal { FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman"; mso-style-parent: ""; mso-pagination: widow-orphan; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman" } P.MsoAutoSig { FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman"; mso-pagination: widow-orphan; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman" } LI.MsoAutoSig { FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman"; mso-pagination: widow-orphan; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman" } DIV.MsoAutoSig { FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman"; mso-pagination: widow-orphan; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman" } P { FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman"; mso-pagination: widow-orphan; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto } SPAN.EmailStyle16 { COLOR: navy; mso-ascii-font-family: Arial; mso-hansi-font-family: Arial; mso-style-type: personal-reply; mso-ansi-font-size: 10.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial } DIV.Section1 { page: Section1 } 



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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: REF look-alike?!?!?
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 16:58:35 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: REF look-alike?!?!?
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

That has been brought up before.

Also, Dave, your emailer is spitting out "winmail.dat"
files.  Naughty Dave.  No cookie.

Here's Ray:
>Date: Sat, 01 Feb 1997 08:52:10 -0800
>From: "Raymond E. Feist" <raymond@bittersea.com>
>Subject: Re: Star Wars?
>
>jgrogan wrote:
>>
>> You know Ray, you sort of resemble George Lucas. Are you guys related?
>>
>> Jason Grogan
>> jgrogan@bcsnet.net
>>
>> P.S. Maybe it is just the beards<g>
>>
>
>No relations, just coincidence, but we do look a great deal alike.
>Cousins wouldn't be a tough sell.  But I'm a good four inches taller,
>about 50 lbs heavier, and have a deeper voice.
>
>He has more money.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>--
>Never attribute to malice anything that can be satisfactorily explained
>away by stupidity.

At 15:52 22/05/2002, you wrote:
>I've been holding back from raising this point for ages, but, with all 
>the Star Wars publicity recently it keeps staring me in the face.
>Did it ever occur to anyone else, that Ray's picture at the crydee.com
>rogues gallery looks suspiciously like George Lucas?

rip



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From: "James Holden" <james@globalvision.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: A lot of questions (incoming rant)
Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 17:12:46 +0100
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Holden" <james@globalvision.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: A lot of questions (incoming rant)
Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 17:12:46 +0100
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

It was a reply to an existing HTML post:

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------

It's a mailing list about a writer and his books, not an internet protocol
discussion nor a flame paradise.

This list seems dominated with a select few who seem to thrive on certain
posts where they can display
their knowledge about either what is in the F.A.Q, why we shouldn't write in
HTML or something equally
as boring.

This post must of taken you more than a few minutes to compose - and all to
show that you are older
and can put together a better string of words.

>> "we've had younger posters who are so much more interesting to listen to
than you have proven to be"

Too true.



-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Richard Williamson
>Sent: 22 May 2002 17:02
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: RE: A lot of questions (incoming rant)
>
>
>Uh James?  What ever it is that you are doing, do you think
>you could stop?  I'd ask you to turn off the HTML, but I'm
>beginning to think that that is a wasted effort on my part.
>Seems the people who would do, have done, and those that
>can't be bothered can't be bothered no matter how many times
>you ask...
>
>Ah well.  It went on for a couple of screens and I gave up
>before finding any content.  Sorry...
>
>rip
>
>At 16:38 22/05/2002, you wrote:
>>"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w =
>"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word"> @font-face { font-family:
>Wingdings; } @font-face { font-family: Tahoma; } @font-face { font-family:
>Comic Sans MS; } @page Section1 {size: 8.5in 11.0in; margin: 1.0in 1.25in
>1.0in 1.25in; mso-header-margin: .5in; mso-footer-margin: .5in;
>mso-paper-source: 0; } P.MsoNormal { FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt;
>FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman"; mso-style-parent: ""; mso-pagination:
>widow-orphan; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman" } LI.MsoNormal {
>FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman";
>mso-style-parent: ""; mso-pagination: widow-orphan; mso-fareast-font-family:
>"Times New Roman" } DIV.MsoNormal { FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt;
>FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman"; mso-style-parent: ""; mso-pagination:
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>!
>!
>pagi
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>LI.MsoAutoSig { FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times
>New Roman"; mso-pagination: widow-orphan; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times
>New Roman" } DIV.MsoAutoSig { FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt;
>FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman"; mso-pagination: widow-orphan;
>mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman" } P { FONT-SIZE: 12pt;
>MARGIN-LEFT: 0in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman";
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>mso-bidi-font-family: Arial } DIV.Section1 { page: Section1 }
>


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From: "Dave Curran" <dave@davecurran.co.uk>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: WAS... RE: REF look-alike?!?!?  NOW...  "winmail.dat"
Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 17:56:08 +0100
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Dave Curran" <dave@davecurran.co.uk>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: WAS... RE: REF look-alike?!?!?  NOW...  "winmail.dat"
Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 17:56:08 +0100
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Richard,

I have no idea what this is or means [though a friend has mentioned it
before].
I looked at the mail as it was sent to me from the list & it looks to me
like a regular email... no attachment or anything that I can think of to
look at.

My PC knowledge is enough to let me do what I need to do, but not a whole
lot more. [If evidence of this is required... I added more memory today
and now have no sound!?!?]

Presumably, since you mention it, there is something I can do to resolve
this.
Can you suggest how or where I can find out more?

...Dave...

Success is the journey, not the destination.
Remember to enjoy today!



>
> Also, Dave, your emailer is spitting out "winmail.dat"
> files.  Naughty Dave.  No cookie.
>



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From: "Joel Rosenberg" <joelr@ellegon.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: REF Soundalike ( was RE: REF look-alike)
Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 12:38:10 -0500
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Joel Rosenberg" <joelr@ellegon.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: REF Soundalike ( was RE: REF look-alike)
Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 12:38:10 -0500
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

A few years ago, I was listening to Car Talk on NPR, and somebody
identifying himself as "Bob", I think, called in, from "the San Diego area".
He not only sounded like Ray, but he had the sort of specific Ray's-life
details of car problems, and had several incidentals about family life and
how it related to car problems -- that I was absolutely sure it was Ray, and
emailed him to ask why he hadn't used his real name.

"Huh?" he replied.

Turns out, of course, that it wasn't Ray, but until he told me that I would
have bet a lot of money that it was.



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From: "David P. Rouse" <viperphi@ezaccess.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: A lot of questions (incoming rant)
Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 14:05:03 -0400
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From: "David P. Rouse" <viperphi@ezaccess.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: A lot of questions (incoming rant)
Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 14:05:03 -0400
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Mr. Young:

I believe that this response was completely inappropriate and on a
whole, not at all needed.

I might point out that most basic statistics courses are not taken until
the second year of undergraduate college education (at least here in the
US). Thus, he being sixteen may have something to do with the fact that
he failed to poll at least 1024 individuals before posting.

Your arrogance was displayed vividly with the comment, "This is of
course just basic statistics." I am sure the whole world begins teaching
statistics to their young at the age of three so they are fluent by the
time they reach the age of sixteen. 	

But of course, you have probably never been guilty of a rash
generalization or expressing a personal bias. You have also probably
never commented on a subject that you are ignorant of either. I do
believe that I would like to have lunch with you as you seem to be the
beginning and the end of knowledge.

I do not know of many people who read fantasy as a tool to broaden their
horizons. However, reading in any form can have an effect on dispelling
ignorance and enhancing knowledge.

You sir, are ignorant of tact. However, I must say, you choose your prey
well. With all of the knowledge you have collected over your life, of
course you should be able to oust the likes of a teenager. Alas, most
would not get into maturity battles with those half their age. 

You have extensive knowledge covering a range of topics, but the method
in which you choose to display them is less than admirable. I respect
your knowledge. I do not respect the fact that you use it to belittle
others. You should consider constructive criticism rather than blatant
insult and personal attack. 

Next time you come across a post that view as being ignorant and not
thought out, I suggest waiting an hour while listening to some good
music with a nice cup of tea before beginning a rant. This way, you can
consider the appropriateness of your reply and give the latter the
benefit of a doubt.

You were right about many of the things that you said. But in this life,
presentation is everything. The fact yet remains that he is sixteen and
still has much to learn about the intricacies of the written word and
the extended mathematics of polling. He is not a Gallup yet. 

Best Regards,

David P. Rouse
Force PC  







-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of James Young
>Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2002 10:37 PM
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: Re: A lot of questions (incoming rant)
>
>    Oh dear, where to start.  I suppose at the top.  My apologies to
>Rip for taking the first crack at this.  (He hadn't sent a reply in
>when I finished typing this).  For those of you who hate to see a
>rant and an outright flame, feel free to ignore this post.
>    First of all it is "meant", use a spell checker when ranting
>because when we decided to return the favor this is just extra ammo
>for us.  My spellchecker caught over half a dozen errors in your
>post with a quick scan.  I fixed most of them, but left "ment" alone
>for punctuation.
>    Second of all several people does not constitute a valid poll of
>the overall population.  For statistically analysis no less than
>1024 must be polled to provide a reasonable level of certainty in
>any such rating system.  This is of course just basic statistics.
>    Third thing: reading a lot of fantasy books doesn't make you any
>less ignorant of a person.  You can read lots of them and still be
>pretty ignorant of society, reality, and other genres.  Lord of the
>Rings, as much as I like it, isn't the be all and end all of
>Fantasy, don't refer it is as if it was.
>    The proper phrase is "wide range" not long range.
>    Again you say that the majority of readers that prefer Feist are
>young teens.  Do you have the statistics?  Are you aware of the
>ratios involved?  Do you have any proof of any of these things?
>Think before you spew numbers that you can't support or put into
>proper context.  Remember the majority of Fantasy readers may just
>be <GASP> young adults (13-18)!
>    Prefer Magician over Feist?  Does it occur to you that is a
>completely contradictory statement?  Magician is Feist.
>    Yes you did, twice now.  Once by inference, once by direct
>comment.  You're contradicting yourself.  I suggest breaking that
>habit.
>     As for the magician/warrior thing, that could be viewed as
>foreshadowing, which REF used frequently enough that it is a part of
>his plot devices.  Criticizing a plot device that is certainly valid
>is rather inane.  Besides which it fits the character's mentality.
>Besides which, did you ever think that a lot of people choose their
>careers based on things they said as children?  It happens.  Don't
>knock it.
>    Oh, and stop assuming we are going to agree that it is some how
>corny.  Frankly as a whole the novel is quite engaging even later in
>life.
>    For starters you have yet to prove you are an intellect to be
>dealt with on a level above average.  You are referring to traits
>common to many teenagers.  Most kids come home and do homework, and
>a great deal of them write.  Be it diaries, journals, stories,
>poetry.  You are not unique in that.  Nor are you unique in reading
>40 pages of a book prior to watching television or playing video
>games.  A number of us on this list have been doing exactly that
>(reading, writing, and homework) since well before we were teens,
>and many of us continue to do so.  You will not get kudos for doing
>what the majority of us think is normal behavior.  Don't try and pat
>yourself on the back for it.  Why?  Simply put because it shows just
>how immature you are.  If you've matured since you were 13, I'd hate
>to have seen you post then, since we've had younger posters who are
>so much more interesting to listen to than you have proven to be.
>    You are generalizing your age group. I think some of the other
>teens on this list might object to being classified as you describe
>them.  Besides which, your generalization is over-reaching to say
>the least, and not particularly grounded in a clear view of reality.
>Partially because all you did with this letter is bitch about how
>life sucks when someone insinuates you are being immature and how
>you should be treated differently.  Well, if you want to be treated
>like an adult: "Act like one".  Your previous posts don't reflect
>well on that goal.  You have neither thought out arguments, nor an
>interest in rational discussion.  Hence I must classify you as an
>immature individual.  Regardless of your age.
>	 I don't recall being asked if I wanted to hear you vent.  Hence
>the
>reason I am not just "letting" you do so with impunity.
>
>-James (returning the rant, and damn near done with this poster,
>Killfile the next time I see him reply with something this inane)
>




---
[This E-mail scanned for viruses by IAS, an Archiventure Company]



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From: "Steve Weghorn" <pelvislives@hotmail.com>
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Subject: delurking for a moment
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From: "Steve Weghorn" <pelvislives@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: delurking for a moment
Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 14:41:30 -0400
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Hello all,

Usually I don't reply or listen to the flame wars that go on but I
feel that I have to say something.  I think that what Mr. Young said
was completely ok, after all this is a Feist FAN list and if someone
doesn't like his stuff or thinks that it's corny then he probably
shouldn't be on the list.  Also I think that it's hypocritical to say
that the kid can say anything he wants but we as list members have to
watch ourselves.  People have said that he's just a kid and he has yet
to learn anything, well how is he supposed to learn if we don't say
anything.  Granted it should have probably been done in a better
manner but sometimes it's the harshest statements that really sink in.
Bottom line is that the kid was out of line.

                                                       Thanks
                                                  Steve Weghorn

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From: "Michael Kovar" <mk82624@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re: A lot of questions (incoming rant)
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From: "Michael Kovar" <mk82624@hotmail.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: A lot of questions (incoming rant)
Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 14:35:17 -0500
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David, I agree with your post to him, and applaud the sentiment.  I
would like to add, regarding Mr. Young.

Never attribute to malice
what can satisfactorily
be explained away
by STUPIDITY!

----- Original Message -----
>From: David P. Rouse
>Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2002 1:11 PM
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: RE: A lot of questions (incoming rant)
>
>Mr. Young:
>
>I believe that this response was completely inappropriate and on a
>whole, not at all needed.
>
>I might point out that most basic statistics courses are not taken until
>the second year of undergraduate college education (at least here in the
>US). Thus, he being sixteen may have something to do with the fact that
>he failed to poll at least 1024 individuals before posting.
>
>Your arrogance was displayed vividly with the comment, "This is of
>course just basic statistics." I am sure the whole world begins teaching
>statistics to their young at the age of three so they are fluent by the
>time they reach the age of sixteen.
>
>But of course, you have probably never been guilty of a rash
>generalization or expressing a personal bias. You have also probably
>never commented on a subject that you are ignorant of either. I do
>believe that I would like to have lunch with you as you seem to be the
>beginning and the end of knowledge.
>
>I do not know of many people who read fantasy as a tool to broaden their
>horizons. However, reading in any form can have an effect on dispelling
>ignorance and enhancing knowledge.
>
>You sir, are ignorant of tact. However, I must say, you choose your prey
>well. With all of the knowledge you have collected over your life, of
>course you should be able to oust the likes of a teenager. Alas, most
>would not get into maturity battles with those half their age.
>
>You have extensive knowledge covering a range of topics, but the method
>in which you choose to display them is less than admirable. I respect
>your knowledge. I do not respect the fact that you use it to belittle
>others. You should consider constructive criticism rather than blatant
>insult and personal attack.
>
>Next time you come across a post that view as being ignorant and not
>thought out, I suggest waiting an hour while listening to some good
>music with a nice cup of tea before beginning a rant. This way, you can
>consider the appropriateness of your reply and give the latter the
>benefit of a doubt.
>
>You were right about many of the things that you said. But in this life,
>presentation is everything. The fact yet remains that he is sixteen and
>still has much to learn about the intricacies of the written word and
>the extended mathematics of polling. He is not a Gallup yet.
>
>Best Regards,
>
>David P. Rouse
>Force PC

-----Original Message-----
>>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of James Young
>>Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2002 10:37 PM
>>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>>Subject: Re: A lot of questions (incoming rant)
>>
>>    Oh dear, where to start.  I suppose at the top.  My apologies to
>>Rip for taking the first crack at this.  (He hadn't sent a reply in
>>when I finished typing this).  For those of you who hate to see a
>>rant and an outright flame, feel free to ignore this post.
>>    First of all it is "meant", use a spell checker when ranting
>>because when we decided to return the favor this is just extra ammo
>>for us.  My spellchecker caught over half a dozen errors in your
>>post with a quick scan.  I fixed most of them, but left "ment" alone
>>for punctuation.
>>    Second of all several people does not constitute a valid poll of
>>the overall population.  For statistically analysis no less than
>>1024 must be polled to provide a reasonable level of certainty in
>>any such rating system.  This is of course just basic statistics.
>>    Third thing: reading a lot of fantasy books doesn't make you any
>>less ignorant of a person.  You can read lots of them and still be
>>pretty ignorant of society, reality, and other genres.  Lord of the
>>Rings, as much as I like it, isn't the be all and end all of
>>Fantasy, don't refer it is as if it was.
>>    The proper phrase is "wide range" not long range.
>>    Again you say that the majority of readers that prefer Feist are
>>young teens.  Do you have the statistics?  Are you aware of the
>>ratios involved?  Do you have any proof of any of these things?
>>Think before you spew numbers that you can't support or put into
>>proper context.  Remember the majority of Fantasy readers may just
>>be <GASP> young adults (13-18)!
>>    Prefer Magician over Feist?  Does it occur to you that is a
>>completely contradictory statement?  Magician is Feist.
>>    Yes you did, twice now.  Once by inference, once by direct
>>comment.  You're contradicting yourself.  I suggest breaking that
>>habit.
>>     As for the magician/warrior thing, that could be viewed as
>>foreshadowing, which REF used frequently enough that it is a part of
>>his plot devices.  Criticizing a plot device that is certainly valid
>>is rather inane.  Besides which it fits the character's mentality.
>>Besides which, did you ever think that a lot of people choose their
>>careers based on things they said as children?  It happens.  Don't
>>knock it.
>>    Oh, and stop assuming we are going to agree that it is some how
>>corny.  Frankly as a whole the novel is quite engaging even later in
>>life.
>>    For starters you have yet to prove you are an intellect to be
>>dealt with on a level above average.  You are referring to traits
>>common to many teenagers.  Most kids come home and do homework, and
>>a great deal of them write.  Be it diaries, journals, stories,
>>poetry.  You are not unique in that.  Nor are you unique in reading
>>40 pages of a book prior to watching television or playing video
>>games.  A number of us on this list have been doing exactly that
>>(reading, writing, and homework) since well before we were teens,
>>and many of us continue to do so.  You will not get kudos for doing
>>what the majority of us think is normal behavior.  Don't try and pat
>>yourself on the back for it.  Why?  Simply put because it shows just
>>how immature you are.  If you've matured since you were 13, I'd hate
>>to have seen you post then, since we've had younger posters who are
>>so much more interesting to listen to than you have proven to be.
>>    You are generalizing your age group. I think some of the other
>>teens on this list might object to being classified as you describe
>>them.  Besides which, your generalization is over-reaching to say
>>the least, and not particularly grounded in a clear view of reality.
>>Partially because all you did with this letter is bitch about how
>>life sucks when someone insinuates you are being immature and how
>>you should be treated differently.  Well, if you want to be treated
>>like an adult: "Act like one".  Your previous posts don't reflect
>>well on that goal.  You have neither thought out arguments, nor an
>>interest in rational discussion.  Hence I must classify you as an
>>immature individual.  Regardless of your age.
>>I don't recall being asked if I wanted to hear you vent.  Hence
>>the
>>reason I am not just "letting" you do so with impunity.
>>
>>-James (returning the rant, and damn near done with this poster,
>>Killfile the next time I see him reply with something this inane)
>
>---
>[This E-mail scanned for viruses by IAS, an Archiventure Company]
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Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 13:05:09 -0700
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Subject: Manners
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 13:05:09 -0700
Subject: Manners
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: feiSTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

People,

Now that the flames are dying, I would like to make a couple of 
observations.

1) opinions are OK.  Not everyone has to like every freakin' word I've 
written.  I don't like every word I've written.  Some of you aren't 
writers so you may not express yourself in exact fashion.  Cut one 
another slack, OK?

2) all it takes is a little bit of graciousness.  Next time you feel the 
impulse to correct someone else on the list, one word: resist.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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From: JEEPMONSTER69@aol.com
Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 16:19:56 EDT
Subject: New Name?
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Sorry about the last mail...I hit enter prematurely (bloody AOL).

Anyway, I was thinking about a name for fans of Rayomd E. Feist, as a sort of 
calling card.  Before I front any suggestions, I would just like some 
feedback from my fellow listmembers.

                                                             Thanks,
                                                                   Matt

"Lets Roll."- Todd Beamer
USA, Muthafacko!

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Subject: Re: A lot of questions (incoming rant)
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In a message dated 5/21/02 9:48:47 PM Central Daylight Time, 
jajy@earthlink.net writes:


> >        If I ment "me" I would have said "me".  I know several
> other people
> > who think magician is the best book they have ever read, and most
> of
> > those people read and loved Lord of the Rings as well as many
> other
> > fantasy books, so these aren't ignorant people.  And keep in mind
> I said
> > many people, not most people, which are two very different things.
> > There are lots of fans of Feist, with a long range of opinions of
> his work,
> > and most of the people who prefer Magician over Feist tend to be
> young
> > teenagers, like I was.
> 
>     Oh dear, where to start.  I suppose at the top.  My apologies to
> Rip for taking the first crack at this.  (He hadn't sent a reply in
> when I finished typing this).  For those of you who hate to see a
> rant and an outright flame, feel free to ignore this post.
>     First of all it is "meant", use a spell checker when ranting
> because when we decided to return the favor this is just extra ammo
> for us.  My spellchecker caught over half a dozen errors in your
> post with a quick scan.  I fixed most of them, but left "ment" alone
> for punctuation.
>     Second of all several people does not constitute a valid poll of
> the overall population.  For statistically analysis no less than
> 1024 must be polled to provide a reasonable level of certainty in
> any such rating system.  This is of course just basic statistics.
>     Third thing: reading a lot of fantasy books doesn't make you any
> less ignorant of a person.  You can read lots of them and still be
> pretty ignorant of society, reality, and other genres.  Lord of the
> Rings, as much as I like it, isn't the be all and end all of
> Fantasy, don't refer it is as if it was.
>     The proper phrase is "wide range" not long range.
>     Again you say that the majority of readers that prefer Feist are
> young teens.  Do you have the statistics?  Are you aware of the
> ratios involved?  Do you have any proof of any of these things?
> Think before you spew numbers that you can't support or put into
> proper context.  Remember the majority of Fantasy readers may just
> be <GASP> young adults (13-18)!
>     Prefer Magician over Feist?  Does it occur to you that is a
> completely contradictory statement?  Magician is Feist.
> 
> > I did not say Magician was corny, I said parts of it where.  A
> prime example
> > is when Tomas and Pug talk about how they hope to become a
> powerful
> > warrior and magician respectively, and then surprisingly at the
> end, bam, they
> > end being a powerful warrior and magician.  It has the feeling of
> being a very
> > light book and at parts it was corny IMO.
> 
>     Yes you did, twice now.  Once by inference, once by direct
> comment.  You're contradicting yourself.  I suggest breaking that
> habit.
>      As for the magician/warrior thing, that could be viewed as
> foreshadowing, which REF used frequently enough that it is a part of
> his plot devices.  Criticizing a plot device that is certainly valid
> is rather inane.  Besides which it fits the character's mentality.
> Besides which, did you ever think that a lot of people choose their
> careers based on things they said as children?  It happens.  Don't
> knock it.
>     Oh, and stop assuming we are going to agree that it is some how
> corny.  Frankly as a whole the novel is quite engaging even later in
> life.
> 
> > And as for why I said "Now I'm a smart, mature, and hard-working
> 16 year
> > old adult" I was making a joke about when I said "probably because
> I was
> > only about 13 then" because it makes it seem like I am saying that
> I am a lot
> > older and more mature now, which it seems to me, but yet that was
> only 3
> > years ago.  As for my maturity, if going to school for 6 hours,
> then coming
> > home and doing homework for an hour, then working on my writing
> for three
> > hours, and then reading about 40 pages of a book before doing
> anything
> > else, such as going on-line like I am now or watching TV, then I
> don't know
> > what maturity is.
> 
>     For starters you have yet to prove you are an intellect to be
> dealt with on a level above average.  You are referring to traits
> common to many teenagers.  Most kids come home and do homework, and
> a great deal of them write.  Be it diaries, journals, stories,
> poetry.  You are not unique in that.  Nor are you unique in reading
> 40 pages of a book prior to watching television or playing video
> games.  A number of us on this list have been doing exactly that
> (reading, writing, and homework) since well before we were teens,
> and many of us continue to do so.  You will not get kudos for doing
> what the majority of us think is normal behavior.  Don't try and pat
> yourself on the back for it.  Why?  Simply put because it shows just
> how immature you are.  If you've matured since you were 13, I'd hate
> to have seen you post then, since we've had younger posters who are
> so much more interesting to listen to than you have proven to be.
> 
> > I hope you all would understand why I get angry when people
> > consider me the same as all other teenagers, when all I'm seeing
> them
> > (teenagers) do is bitch about how there life sucks when they
> aren't getting
> > high or getting laid.  All right, most don't go that far, but
> unfortunately
> > far to many of my "friends" do.
> 
>     You are generalizing your age group. I think some of the other
> teens on this list might object to being classified as you describe
> them.  Besides which, your generalization is over-reaching to say
> the least, and not particularly grounded in a clear view of reality.
> Partially because all you did with this letter is bitch about how
> life sucks when someone insinuates you are being immature and how
> you should be treated differently.  Well, if you want to be treated
> like an adult: "Act like one".  Your previous posts don't reflect
> well on that goal.  You have neither thought out arguments, nor an
> interest in rational discussion.  Hence I must classify you as an
> immature individual.  Regardless of your age.
> 
> > Thanks for letting me vent.
> 
> I don't recall being asked if I wanted to hear you vent.  Hence the
> reason I am not just "letting" you do so with impunity.
> 
> -James (returning the rant, and damn near done with this poster,
> Killfile the next time I see him reply with something this inane)
> 

       I do not have time to write fully what I want to say, but I am amazed 
at how angry you got at me because I said I was mature for my age.  If it 
sounded like I was trying to say that I was fully mature, than I was mistaken 
and I apologize.  The reason I feel that I am so mature is that I have ADD, 
and for all my life I was that little kid who couldn't sit down for a minute, 
so when I have been able to control it to the point of being able to do all 
my homework without having my mom having to constantly remind me to sit down, 
and then to go on and work for another 3 hours on writing seems like a big 
thing to me when I don't put things back into perspective.  

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Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 16:30:14 EDT
Subject: Re: A lot of questions (incoming rant)
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*** EOOH ***
From: RBlackley@aol.com
Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 16:30:14 EDT
Subject: Re: A lot of questions (incoming rant)
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Yeah I wrote it 5 minutes after getting up, and 10 minutes before walking out 
the door, and completely forgot to run spell check, sorry all.

Richard

> I am sorry Richard, your post is absolutely meaningless because you 
> misspelled a couple of words and used incorrect punctuation (just wanted to 
> save a few folks some time and effort).


-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
"We don't want to go back to tomorrow, we want to go forward."
Dan Quayle
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-

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Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 16:36:07 -0400
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: A lot of questions (incoming rant)
Message-ID: <7B01A8A3.0AB91C88.000474BE@aol.com>
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*** EOOH ***
From: LDS627@aol.com
Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 16:36:07 -0400
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: A lot of questions (incoming rant)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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I think my mother said it best. 

Children, play nice.

Larry
Who is always amazed how flames spread faster than facts.



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To: feistfans-l@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Dan Lorey <dl24@cornell.edu>
Subject: ADMIN: Re: A lot of questions (incoming rant)
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 16:49:09 -0400
To: feistfans-l@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Dan Lorey <dl24@cornell.edu>
Subject: ADMIN: Re: A lot of questions (incoming rant)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Okay folks,

  Let's end this now before it escalates any more. Consider this the
official cease-and-desist order prior to my starting to remove people
from the list.

  I'd written a long post regarding manners on the list, but since
Ray's just commented on list manners, I'll refrain from sending my
email. However, I will say just one thing to those who seem to be
going out of their way to nitpick posts based on style and grammar - 
LIGHTEN UP. Above all else, this is supposed to be a FUN list. 

  Posters should try to be as careful with their spelling and grammar as 
they can (after all, it's the polite thing to do, and we also have a lot 
of list members for whom English is not their primary language). Turning
off HTML/styled text in email is the polite thing to do, too, as
well as a semi-official Cornell mandate for use of their list servers
(HTML-containing posts take up more server resources, and they can 
cause problems in the daily digests of list mail that get sent out).

  However, posters shouldn't have to fear being lectured in front of over
500 strangers because of technical mistakes in writing or because of
unusual logic or a lack of knowledge on a specific subject. I personally
tend to read posts for content rather than the grasp of the English
language. I'd much rather read an on-topic post that contains a few
mistakes than a grammatically perfect post that contributes nothing
of value to the list.

  If you don't like the style of someone's writing, you might try
emailing them privately and making some polite suggestions. That's the
way I generally handle administrative problems, and the polite, private
approach usually works much more effectively than chastising them on
the list. Or, if that doesn't work, try ignoring the posters who aren't
writing the way you'd like. If no one responds to a poorly-written post,
maybe the poster will get the message that they need to clean up
their act if they want to be taken seriously on the list. You should 
also, of course, feel free to killfile anyone whose posts don't meet your 
own personal standards for what constitutes proper writing. However,
please refrain from announcing to the list that you've killfiled X or
that you're going to killfile Y if they don't behave better. I can't
speak for the list membership in general, but I personally could care
less who you've killfiled.

  Thus ends the much-shortened lecture. Class dismissed.

  Dan Lorey - Feistfans-L List Owner



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From: "Joel Rosenberg" <joelr@ellegon.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: ADMIN: Re: A lot of questions (incoming rant)
Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 16:24:42 -0500
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Joel Rosenberg" <joelr@ellegon.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: ADMIN: Re: A lot of questions (incoming rant)
Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 16:24:42 -0500
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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*sniff*  I guess that's why nobody's responded to my (few) posts, of late.  

-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Dan Lorey
>Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2002 3:49 PM
>To: FEISTFANS-L
>Subject: ADMIN: Re: A lot of questions (incoming rant)

[much snippage]

>Or, if that doesn't work, try ignoring the posters who aren't
>writing the way you'd like. If no one responds to a poorly-written post,
>maybe the poster will get the message that they need to clean up
>their act if they want to be taken seriously on the list. 

[more snippage]



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From: "Andy Bradley" <dark_elf@btinternet.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Manners
Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 22:40:12 +0100
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Andy Bradley" <dark_elf@btinternet.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Manners
Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 22:40:12 +0100
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Ray,

From one guy who really does appreciate your work, could I ask which
work you feel most proud of? I ask from an artistic standpoint, because
being an artist of sorts I always feel I can do better with my next
piece of work, and tend to dismiss the old. Do you sometimes feel the
same way, or is that something limited only to me? 

(It may not help that I'm 22 & very much a learner!)

~Andy


-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Raymond Feist
>Sent: 22 May 2002 21:05
>To: feiSTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: Manners
>
>People,
>
>Now that the flames are dying, I would like to make a couple of 
>observations.
>
>1) opinions are OK.  Not everyone has to like every freakin' word I've 
>written.  I don't like every word I've written.  Some of you aren't 
>writers so you may not express yourself in exact fashion.  Cut one 
>another slack, OK?
>
>2) all it takes is a little bit of graciousness.  Next time you feel the
>
>impulse to correct someone else on the list, one word: resist.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
>stupidity.
>


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*** EOOH ***
From: Russell.S.Teeter@kp.org
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Author's characters
Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 14:40:45 -0700
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Well, Joel, I think you and Ray should bring back Macros and (Carl with 
the sword) and see who wins the battle.....I can't seem to concentrate on 
one series or the other.  Re-read Mistress of the Empire while in Hawaii, 
now I need a little taste of some D&D based world and Carl is pretty much 
the MAN their.

Russell S. Teeter





"Joel Rosenberg" <joelr@ellegon.com>
Sent by: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
05/22/2002 02:24 PM
Please respond to FEISTFANS-L
>
> 
>	 To:     <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
>	 cc: 
>	 Subject:        RE: ADMIN: Re: A lot of questions (incoming rant)
>
>
>*sniff*  I guess that's why nobody's responded to my (few) posts, of late. 
> 
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Dan Lorey
>Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2002 3:49 PM
>To: FEISTFANS-L
>Subject: ADMIN: Re: A lot of questions (incoming rant)
>
>[much snippage]
>
>Or, if that doesn't work, try ignoring the posters who aren't
>writing the way you'd like. If no one responds to a poorly-written post,
>maybe the poster will get the message that they need to clean up
>their act if they want to be taken seriously on the list. 
>
>[more snippage]

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Subject: RE: Author's characters
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*** EOOH ***
From: Russell.S.Teeter@kp.org
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: RE: Author's characters
Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 14:45:28 -0700
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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And just so everyone knows, I have been on the list for 6 years and do 
know better about asking to bring characters back, just something I saw on 
Joel's webpage.  And thanks to both for the signed book in all those 
years.  Although we have never met Joel, you are a good person who enjoys 
their fans.  You did take the time out to go to that book store and sign 
the "Keepers of the Hidden Ways".  Kept you busy since I bought the whole 
series. 8-)

Russell S. Teeter

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Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 15:45:52 -0700
Subject: Pride
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 15:45:52 -0700
Subject: Pride
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On Wednesday, May 22, 2002, at 02:40 PM, Andy Bradley wrote:

> Ray,
>
>> From one guy who really does appreciate your work, could I ask which
> work you feel most proud of? I ask from an artistic standpoint, because
> being an artist of sorts I always feel I can do better with my next
> piece of work, and tend to dismiss the old. Do you sometimes feel the
> same way, or is that something limited only to me?
>
> (It may not help that I'm 22 & very much a learner!)
>
>

I'm rarely proud of an entire book, because there are always things I 
feel I could have done better.  On balance, I tend to be pretty proud of 
Magician, Darkness, Faerie Tale, and Servant most of all, mostly because 
they have the fewest places I have an itch to write "one more time."

I always think the next book is going to be better than the last.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
From: "Chad" <feistfan@chadkeffer.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Manners
Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 17:58:16 -0500
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Amen to that!

----- Original Message ----- 
>From: "Raymond Feist" <raymond@bittersea.com>
>To: <feiSTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
>Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2002 3:05 PM
>Subject: Manners
>
>
>People,
>
>Now that the flames are dying, I would like to make a couple of 
>observations.
>
>1) opinions are OK.  Not everyone has to like every freakin' word I've 
>written.  I don't like every word I've written.  Some of you aren't 
>writers so you may not express yourself in exact fashion.  Cut one 
>another slack, OK?
>
>2) all it takes is a little bit of graciousness.  Next time you feel the 
>impulse to correct someone else on the list, one word: resist.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
>stupidity.
>



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 18:15:34 -0700
From: Carl Dershem <dershem@cox.net>
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Joel Rosenberg wrote:

> *sniff*  I guess that's why nobody's responded to my (few) posts, of late.  


Heh.  More likely you're on target enough there's not much left to be said.


cd
-- 
Death to all Absolutists!



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Subject: Re: ADMIN: Re: A lot of questions (incoming rant)
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In a message dated 5/22/2002 2:30:08 PM Pacific Daylight Time, 
joelr@ellegon.com writes:


> *sniff*  I guess that's why nobody's responded to my (few) posts, of late. 

*Makes note to finally send that e-mail to Joel I promised so long ago*

The LAST thing we want to see is a maudlin author.

Larry

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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 09:11:12 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: NOW...  "winmail.dat"
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

At 17:56 22/05/2002, you wrote:
>Richard,
>
>I have no idea what this is or means [though a friend has mentioned it
>before].
>I looked at the mail as it was sent to me from the list & it looks to me
>like a regular email... no attachment or anything that I can think of to
>look at.
>
>My PC knowledge is enough to let me do what I need to do, but not a whole
>lot more. [If evidence of this is required... I added more memory today
>and now have no sound!?!?]
>
>Presumably, since you mention it, there is something I can do to resolve
>this.
>Can you suggest how or where I can find out more?

Oddly enough, this email didn't include a winmail.dat file.  
I know it has something to do with the options in outlook, but
as I'm not an outlook user, I'm not sure.  

Maybe when you've got your sound back, your email will start 
sending the .dat files again.  *shrugs* It's /Microsoft/.  
It could happen.

Anyway, the feistfans-l archives record lots of instances of this
problem.  They seem to be related to either the MIME or attachment
encoding settings.  Let's start with those...

rip



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From: "Dave Curran" <dave@davecurran.co.uk>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Pride
Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 09:33:22 +0100
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Dave Curran" <dave@davecurran.co.uk>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Pride
Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 09:33:22 +0100
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I'm sure that most of us could apply these thoughts to our own situations.
Whether it be writing, studying, or any job, I think most people have
those "Itches" from time to time.
When I look back at the end of a project I am almost always proud... but I
can always see ways that I could have improved my performance.
I would hate for this to change. It is that "itch" that drives me to do
better next time. I often ask myself two questions.

1. If, on day one, I could have seen the future, would I have accepted
   this outcome?
2. Now that it's finished would I want to do the whole thing again, and
   risk messing something else up, just to improve one or two points?

So far I've always managed a YES and a NO.
When that changes I either investigate time travel or change profession.

Just my thoughts...

...Dave... 

Success is the journey, not the destination.
Remember to enjoy today!



> I'm rarely proud of an entire book, because there are always things I 
> feel I could have done better.  On balance, I tend to be pretty proud of 
> Magician, Darkness, Faerie Tale, and Servant most of all, mostly because 
> they have the fewest places I have an itch to write "one more time."
> 
> I always think the next book is going to be better than the last.
>  



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From: "James Holden" <james@globalvision.com>
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Subject: RE: Pride
Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 09:49:10 +0100
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Holden" <james@globalvision.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Pride
Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 09:49:10 +0100
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Have you considered writing another book based some time after mistress? -
exploring thier changing culture would of been good.

> I'm rarely proud of an entire book, because there are always things I
> feel I could have done better.  On balance, I tend to be pretty proud of
> Magician, Darkness, Faerie Tale, and Servant most of all, mostly because
> they have the fewest places I have an itch to write "one more time."
>
> I always think the next book is going to be better than the last.
>
>



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 02:21:08 -0700
Subject: Re: Pride
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Thursday, May 23, 2002, at 01:49 AM, James Holden wrote:

> Have you considered writing another book based some time after 
> mistress? -
> exploring thier changing culture would of been good.
>
No more Empire books.  I think that's in the FAQ, but I don't know if 
the reason is.  Mostly Kelewan is like a movie set; once you open a door 
there's nothing behind the flat.

Midkemia was a totally created world before I started writing in it, and 
has gotten more detailed over 25 years since, so I'd rather work in the 
world where I have all these wonderful resources.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Subject: Re: Pride
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Henrik Grotle" <henrik@arasoft.no>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Pride
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Raymond E. Feist wrote:
> feel I could have done better.  On balance, I tend to be pretty proud of
> Magician, Darkness, Faerie Tale, and Servant most of all, mostly because
> they have the fewest places I have an itch to write "one more time."
>
> I always think the next book is going to be better than the last.
>
> Best, R.E.F.

And with good reason! You pretty much listed my absolute favourites of all
your books. I just started rereading Servant yesterday and it's incredibly
well written, although Daughter also was great. IMHO Faerie Tale has not
gotten the attention it deserved. It is a great story only maybe a bit hard
to get past the first chapter. Not that the first chapter is poorly written
or anything, maybe it's just hard to get past because it is not happening in
Midkemia or on Kelewan and you have to get into another state of mind ;-)

Thanks for bringing us your fantastic stories!

Regards,
Henrik Grotle



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Subject: Re: Manners
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Cameron Gurr" <gurrc@brightontown.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Manners
Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 18:58:30 +0800
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Thank you Ray for adding some sanity and perspective.

INO this flame war has gone on too long. There is such a thing as courtesy.

Cameron
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Raymond Feist" <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: <feiSTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2002 4:05 AM
Subject: Manners


> People,
> 
> Now that the flames are dying, I would like to make a couple of 
> observations.
> 
> 1) opinions are OK.  Not everyone has to like every freakin' word I've 
> written.  I don't like every word I've written.  Some of you aren't 
> writers so you may not express yourself in exact fashion.  Cut one 
> another slack, OK?
> 
> 2) all it takes is a little bit of graciousness.  Next time you feel the 
> impulse to correct someone else on the list, one word: resist.
> 
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
> 
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
> stupidity.
> 
> 



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From: "Cameron Gurr" <gurrc@brightontown.com.au>
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Subject: Kelewan - Gaming
Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 19:05:12 +0800
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Cameron Gurr" <gurrc@brightontown.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Kelewan - Gaming
Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 19:05:12 +0800
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I don't want to start an argument here, because I've resolved myself to the
fact there will be no more Empire books, just as a friend of mine has
resolved himself to the fact the Chaos Wars will never be written down in
one volume.

But I've always thought Kelewan presents itself as a great environment for a
strategy-style computer game.

Thoughts??

Cameron



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Subject: Murder in LaMut
Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 13:02:26 +0100
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Paul Whitby" <pjwhitby@ntlworld.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Murder in LaMut
Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 13:02:26 +0100
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guess what I got in the post this morning...go on guess...did you get it...a
hardback copy of Murder in LaMut

got some reading to do !

Paul



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> guess what I got in the post this morning...go on guess...did you get it...a
> hardback copy of Murder in LaMut
> 
> got some reading to do !
> 
> Paul

Shall I tell you how it ends ? <G>
-- 
john@crydee.com

http://www.crydee.com



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Subject: Re:Kelewan - Gaming
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> But I've always thought Kelewan presents itself as a great environment for a
> strategy-style computer game.
> 
> Thoughts??

Well, there is already "Shogun Total War : Warlord Edition" on PC CD Rom.

Change the name of the clan with Kelewan ones, you've got your game.

Syl



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Subject: Re: Murder in LaMut
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Paul Whitby" <paul.whitby@oxoid.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Murder in LaMut
Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 13:35:20 +0100
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would you dare post it here? <g>

Paul

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "John" <john@crydee.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>; <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2002 1:10 PM
Subject: Re: Murder in LaMut


> 
> 
> > guess what I got in the post this morning...go on guess...did you get 
> it...a
> > hardback copy of Murder in LaMut
> > 
> > got some reading to do !
> > 
> > Paul
> 
> Shall I tell you how it ends ? <G>
> -- 
> john@crydee.com
> 
> http://www.crydee.com
> 




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Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 13:32:13 +0100
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At 13:10 23/05/2002, you wrote:
>> guess what I got in the post this morning...go on guess...did you get 
>it...a
>> hardback copy of Murder in LaMut
>
>Shall I tell you how it ends ? <G>

The butler did it.

Except that I'd expect Ray/Joel to be a bit more clever
than that.  Is there a character named Truble? 

rip



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From: Al Burrell <al.burl@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: Re:Kelewan - Gaming
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Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 14:03:58 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: Al Burrell <al.burl@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: Re:Kelewan - Gaming
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And I believe that someone on the list has made some Kelewan maps for Age 
Of Empires.
Is that person still around?

Al

At 12:07 23/05/2002 +0000, Sylvain Guehl wrote:
> > But I've always thought Kelewan presents itself as a great environment 
> for a
> > strategy-style computer game.
> >
> > Thoughts??
>
>Well, there is already "Shogun Total War : Warlord Edition" on PC CD Rom.
>
>Change the name of the clan with Kelewan ones, you've got your game.
>
>Syl



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> would you dare post it here? <g>
> 
> Paul

Nope :)
-- 
john@crydee.com

http://www.crydee.com



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From: "Wouter Durnez" <arutha_of_krondor@hotmail.com>
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From: "Wouter Durnez" <arutha_of_krondor@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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I don't think your books get better every time. In fact, I think that the 
Riftwar-series, especially Magician, are the best thing you've ever written. 
I still think you're a mighty talented author, but your style seems to 
become more written in something of a hurry (at least compared to Magician). 
The good side on this is that you never ever become bored, you can pick the 
book up anytime to continue reading, it's a whirlwind of action. Well, 
that's what I think :)

wouter

>From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: Pride
>Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 15:45:52 -0700
>
>
>On Wednesday, May 22, 2002, at 02:40 PM, Andy Bradley wrote:
>
>>Ray,
>>
>>>From one guy who really does appreciate your work, could I ask which
>>work you feel most proud of? I ask from an artistic standpoint, because
>>being an artist of sorts I always feel I can do better with my next
>>piece of work, and tend to dismiss the old. Do you sometimes feel the
>>same way, or is that something limited only to me?
>>
>>(It may not help that I'm 22 & very much a learner!)
>>
>>
>
>I'm rarely proud of an entire book, because there are always things I
>feel I could have done better.  On balance, I tend to be pretty proud of
>Magician, Darkness, Faerie Tale, and Servant most of all, mostly because
>they have the fewest places I have an itch to write "one more time."
>
>I always think the next book is going to be better than the last.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
>stupidity.
>




_________________________________________________________________
Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
http://www.hotmail.com



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From: cdunemann <cdunemann@AncientEngineering.com>
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Sure but then your missing great units like cha-jo warriors, Cha-jo 
cavalry.




Quoting Sylvain Guehl <fenyxkell@demo.xandmail.com>:

> > But I've always thought Kelewan presents itself as a great
> environment for a
> > strategy-style computer game.
> > 
> > Thoughts??
> 
> Well, there is already "Shogun Total War : Warlord Edition" on PC
> CD Rom.
> 
> Change the name of the clan with Kelewan ones, you've got your
> game.
> 
> Syl
> 





-I canna give ya more power captin. She'll fly herself apart!-

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Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 09:02:21 -0700
Subject: Re: Murder in LaMut
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
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On Thursday, May 23, 2002, at 05:32 AM, Richard Williamson wrote:

> At 13:10 23/05/2002, you wrote:
>>> guess what I got in the post this morning...go on guess...did you get
>> it...a
>>> hardback copy of Murder in LaMut
>>
>> Shall I tell you how it ends ? <G>
>
> The butler did it.
>
> Except that I'd expect Ray/Joel to be a bit more clever
> than that.  Is there a character named Truble?
>
> rip
>
>
>
>

No, but Joel insisted on Jeeves, damit!

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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From: "James Holden" <james@globalvision.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Kelewan - Gaming
Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 17:05:03 +0100
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I think i'll be Acoma ;0)  We pay no attention to honor or protocol.

-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of cdunemann
>Sent: 23 May 2002 08:49
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: Re:Kelewan - Gaming
>
>
>Sure but then your missing great units like cha-jo warriors, Cha-jo 
>cavalry.
>
>
>
>
>Quoting Sylvain Guehl <fenyxkell@demo.xandmail.com>:
>
>> > But I've always thought Kelewan presents itself as a great
>> environment for a
>> > strategy-style computer game.
>> > 
>> > Thoughts??
>> 
>> Well, there is already "Shogun Total War : Warlord Edition" on PC
>> CD Rom.
>> 
>> Change the name of the clan with Kelewan ones, you've got your
>> game.
>> 
>> Syl
>> 
>
>
>
>
>
>-I canna give ya more power captin. She'll fly herself apart!-
>
>------------------------------------------------------------
>"Have you hurled today?" (TM)
>
> http://www.Trebuchet.com
>  http://www.Mangonel.com
>   http://www.BackyardArtillery.com
>    http://www.Catapults.info
>     http://www.Onager.info
>      http://www.AncientEngineering.com
>	http://www.WidgetSleeves.com
>
>(Free email accounts too!)
>
>-- RLT Enterprises --
>


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Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 09:05:16 -0700
Subject: Re: Pride
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 09:05:16 -0700
Subject: Re: Pride
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Thursday, May 23, 2002, at 08:21 AM, Wouter Durnez wrote:

> I don't think your books get better every time. In fact, I think that 
> the Riftwar-series, especially Magician, are the best thing you've ever 
> written. I still think you're a mighty talented author, but your style 
> seems to become more written in something of a hurry (at least compared 
> to Magician). The good side on this is that you never ever become 
> bored, you can pick the book up anytime to continue reading, it's a 
> whirlwind of action. Well, that's what I think :)
>

Well, relatively speaking, they are written more in a hurry.  I spent 
fourteen months on Magician, spread out over two years while I took a 
job for seven months during that period and only wrote part time, and 
had maybe a dozen rewrites (due to not having a clue as to what I was 
doing).

Beyond that, styles evolve.

And there's a scope issue, as well.  Only Darkness and Servant were as 
big physically, and no other book covers a twelve  year period in the 
lives of the characters.  Talon gets close; he's 14 when the book starts 
and about twenty two when the book ends, but I'm sure it'll feel more 
"brisk" in narrative style than Magician because I'm not the same writer 
I was 22 years ago.

Best, R.E.F>

   ----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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From: "Joel Rosenberg" <joelr@ellegon.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Murder in LaMut
Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 11:19:34 -0500
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Joel Rosenberg" <joelr@ellegon.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Murder in LaMut
Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 11:19:34 -0500
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Then again, you overruled me on "Baron Blakadar"...  :)

-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Raymond Feist
>Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2002 11:02 AM
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: Re: Murder in LaMut
>
>
>
>On Thursday, May 23, 2002, at 05:32 AM, Richard Williamson wrote:
>
>> At 13:10 23/05/2002, you wrote:
>>>> guess what I got in the post this morning...go on guess...did you get
>>> it...a
>>>> hardback copy of Murder in LaMut
>>>
>>> Shall I tell you how it ends ? <G>
>>
>> The butler did it.
>>
>> Except that I'd expect Ray/Joel to be a bit more clever
>> than that.  Is there a character named Truble?
>>
>> rip
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>No, but Joel insisted on Jeeves, damit!
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
>stupidity.
>


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From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Murder in LaMut
Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 00:43:51 +0800
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*** EOOH ***
From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Murder in LaMut
Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 00:43:51 +0800
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Surely it wasn't just the suggestion of "Baron Blakadar" but of his
squire "B. Aldrick" as well :)

David


> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu 
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Joel Rosenberg
> Sent: Friday, 24 May 2002 12:20 AM
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Subject: RE: Murder in LaMut
> 
> 
> Then again, you overruled me on "Baron Blakadar"...  :)
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Raymond Feist
> Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2002 11:02 AM
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Subject: Re: Murder in LaMut
> 
> 
> 
> On Thursday, May 23, 2002, at 05:32 AM, Richard Williamson wrote:
> 
> > At 13:10 23/05/2002, you wrote:
> >>> guess what I got in the post this morning...go on 
> guess...did you get
> >> it...a
> >>> hardback copy of Murder in LaMut
> >>
> >> Shall I tell you how it ends ? <G>
> >
> > The butler did it.
> >
> > Except that I'd expect Ray/Joel to be a bit more clever
> > than that.  Is there a character named Truble?
> >
> > rip
> >
> >
> >
> >
> 
> No, but Joel insisted on Jeeves, damit!
> 
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
> 
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be 
> explained away by 
> stupidity.
> 



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From: "Joel Rosenberg" <joelr@ellegon.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Murder in LaMut
Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 11:55:17 -0500
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Joel Rosenberg" <joelr@ellegon.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Murder in LaMut
Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 11:55:17 -0500
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Well, that, too . . . 

-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of David Pengelley
>Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2002 11:44 AM
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: RE: Murder in LaMut
>
>
>Surely it wasn't just the suggestion of "Baron Blakadar" but of his
>squire "B. Aldrick" as well :)
>
>David
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu 
>> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Joel Rosenberg
>> Sent: Friday, 24 May 2002 12:20 AM
>> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>> Subject: RE: Murder in LaMut
>> 
>> 
>> Then again, you overruled me on "Baron Blakadar"...  :)
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Raymond Feist
>> Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2002 11:02 AM
>> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>> Subject: Re: Murder in LaMut
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Thursday, May 23, 2002, at 05:32 AM, Richard Williamson wrote:
>> 
>> > At 13:10 23/05/2002, you wrote:
>> >>> guess what I got in the post this morning...go on 
>> guess...did you get
>> >> it...a
>> >>> hardback copy of Murder in LaMut
>> >>
>> >> Shall I tell you how it ends ? <G>
>> >
>> > The butler did it.
>> >
>> > Except that I'd expect Ray/Joel to be a bit more clever
>> > than that.  Is there a character named Truble?
>> >
>> > rip
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> 
>> No, but Joel insisted on Jeeves, damit!
>> 
>> Best, R.E.F.
>> ----
>> 
>> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be 
>> explained away by 
>> stupidity.

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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 11:15:20 -0700 (PDT)
From: Joshua Stanton <jasharkalain@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Pride
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


--- Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com> wrote:

<snip>

> Talon gets close; he's 14
> when the book starts 
> and about twenty two when the book ends, but I'm
> sure it'll feel more 
> "brisk" in narrative style than Magician because I'm
> not the same writer 
> I was 22 years ago.

For better or for worse, would you say? (Obviously
you've gotten more efficient, as far as how long it
takes to write a novel, but do you like your 'more
"brisk" ... narrative style' more than what you had
with Magician?)

> 
> Best, R.E.F>
> 
>    ----
> 
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be
> explained away by 
> stupidity.
> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience
http://launch.yahoo.com



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Subject: Re: Pride
Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 19:31:21 +0100
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Justin" <justin.carew@ntlworld.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Pride
Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 19:31:21 +0100
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isn't pride a sin or something like
that?

Justin

----- Original Message -----
From: "Henrik Grotle"
<henrik@arasoft.no>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2002 10:18 AM
Subject: Re: Pride


| Raymond E. Feist wrote:
| > feel I could have done better.  On balance, I tend to be pretty proud of
| > Magician, Darkness, Faerie Tale, and Servant most of all, mostly because
| > they have the fewest places I have an itch to write "one more time."
| >
| > I always think the next book is going to be better than the last.
| >
| > Best, R.E.F.
|
| And with good reason! You pretty much listed my absolute favourites of all
| your books. I just started rereading Servant yesterday and it's incredibly
| well written, although Daughter also was great. IMHO Faerie Tale has not
| gotten the attention it deserved. It is a great story only maybe a bit hard
| to get past the first chapter. Not that the first chapter is poorly written
| or anything, maybe it's just hard to get past because it is not happening in
| Midkemia or on Kelewan and you have to get into another state of mind ;-)
|
| Thanks for bringing us your fantastic stories!
|
| Regards,
| Henrik Grotle
|
|



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 16:36:18 -0600
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Murder in LaMut
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John wrote:
> 
> Shall I tell you how it ends ? <G>

I would assume eventually somebody will blurt out spoilers.

So let's give a warning now for spoiler warnings, yes?
This would include putting "SPOILER" in the subject, "SPOILER WARNING"
at the beginning of the body, and 20 or so blank lines so nothing is
accidently seen without scrolling.

Craig J. RIes



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Subject: Re: Murder in LaMut
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Paul Whitby" <paul.whitby@oxoid.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Murder in LaMut
Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 00:59:27 +0100
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so much for implied sarcasm!
I think you can all rest assured that John and I have been members of this
mailing list for long enough to know all about SPOILERS, but it is probably
a good idea to reiterate the point just prior to a new book release.

Cheers Craig,

Paul
----- Original Message -----
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2002 11:36 PM
Subject: Re: Murder in LaMut


> John wrote:
> >
> > Shall I tell you how it ends ? <G>
>
> I would assume eventually somebody will blurt out spoilers.
>
> So let's give a warning now for spoiler warnings, yes?
> This would include putting "SPOILER" in the subject, "SPOILER WARNING"
> at the beginning of the body, and 20 or so blank lines so nothing is
> accidently seen without scrolling.
>
> Craig J. RIes
>




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Subject: RE: Kelewan - Gaming
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Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 00:08:27 +0000
Subject: RE: Kelewan - Gaming
From: "Sylvain Guehl" <fenyxkell@demo.xandmail.com>
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I'll be a Great One. Definitivly a Great One.

Between, I always wondered why there wasn't any Great One elected as a
"chief" or "president" of the Assembly...

(Anyway they all look like Sith Dark Lords I'm sure :)

Syl

> I think i'll be Acoma ;0) We pay no attention to honor or protocol.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of cdunemann
> Sent: 23 May 2002 08:49
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Subject: Re:Kelewan - Gaming
> 
> 
> Sure but then your missing great units like cha-jo warriors, Cha-jo 
> cavalry.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Quoting Sylvain Guehl :
> 
> > > But I've always thought Kelewan presents itself as a great
> > environment for a
> > > strategy-style computer game.
> > > 
> > > Thoughts??
> > 
> > Well, there is already "Shogun Total War : Warlord Edition" on PC
> > CD Rom.
> > 
> > Change the name of the clan with Kelewan ones, you've got your
> > game.
> > 
> > Syl
> > 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -I canna give ya more power captin. She'll fly herself apart!-
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> "Have you hurled today?" (TM)
> 
> http://www.Trebuchet.com
> http://www.Mangonel.com
> http://www.BackyardArtillery.com
> http://www.Catapults.info
> http://www.Onager.info
> http://www.AncientEngineering.com
> http://www.WidgetSleeves.com
> 
> (Free email accounts too!)
> 
> -- RLT Enterprises --
> 
> 


Fenyx Kell.



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Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 17:38:39 -0700
Subject: Re: Pride
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 17:38:39 -0700
Subject: Re: Pride
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On Thursday, May 23, 2002, at 11:15 AM, Joshua Stanton wrote:

>
> --- Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com> wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>> Talon gets close; he's 14
>> when the book starts
>> and about twenty two when the book ends, but I'm
>> sure it'll feel more
>> "brisk" in narrative style than Magician because I'm
>> not the same writer
>> I was 22 years ago.
>
> For better or for worse, would you say? (Obviously
> you've gotten more efficient, as far as how long it
> takes to write a novel, but do you like your 'more
> "brisk" ... narrative style' more than what you had
> with Magician?)
>

I think if you stop and reflect, that falls into the "blinding flash of 
the obvious" category.  Of course I like the style, as it's the style 
I've evolved.

Styles don't land on your keyboard and tell you how to write.  They're 
the product of editorial choices made over and over and over, and as a 
writer, I like my skill set now a lot better than I did 24 years ago.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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From: "Rob Kolech" <feistfan@rogers.com>
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Subject: RE: Murder in LaMut
Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 22:06:39 -0400
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From: "Rob Kolech" <feistfan@rogers.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Murder in LaMut
Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 22:06:39 -0400
X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at fep02-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com from [24.103.241.106] using ID <feistfan@rogers.com> at Thu, 23 May 2002 22:06:43 -0400
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Paul, where did you find the book?  I thought it was not released until June
5th.  Is that just on amazon.co.uk?


Rob Kolech


-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Paul Whitby
>Sent: May 23, 2002 8:02 AM
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: Murder in LaMut
>
>
>guess what I got in the post this morning...go on guess...did you get it...a
>hardback copy of Murder in LaMut
>
>got some reading to do !
>
>Paul
>



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From: "Steve Weghorn" <pelvislives@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Pride
Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 22:41:02 -0400
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From: "Steve Weghorn" <pelvislives@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Pride
Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 22:41:02 -0400
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Mr. Feist do you find that your writing style can sometimes be a
little off, what I mean is that sometimes I sit down and I write ten
pages with no problem, and then other times I find it hard to even
write a paragraph.  Not that I can't think of anything it's just that
sometimes the pieces don't fall where I want them too.  If that makes
sense.

                                                             Thanks
                                                        Steve Weghorn



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hello I am new to the list but have been an avid Feist fan for 10 years
i am reading Hounored enemy right now and am looking forward to the many new 
books comming out

_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx



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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: RE: Murder in LaMut
Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 08:22:37 +0100
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*** EOOH ***
From: paul.whitby@oxoid.com
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: RE: Murder in LaMut
Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 08:22:37 +0100
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got an advanced copy from Harper Collins, and I asked VERY nicely.
John, maybe a silly question, but have you a) seen a proof of MiL or b) have
you got one <g>

Paul

-----Original Message-----
>From: Rob Kolech [mailto:feistfan@rogers.com]
>Sent: 24 May 2002 03:07
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: RE: Murder in LaMut
>
>
>Paul, where did you find the book?  I thought it was not released until June
>5th.  Is that just on amazon.co.uk?
>
>
>Rob Kolech
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Paul Whitby
>Sent: May 23, 2002 8:02 AM
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: Murder in LaMut
>
>
>guess what I got in the post this morning...go on guess...did you get it...a
>hardback copy of Murder in LaMut
>
>got some reading to do !
>
>Paul
>
>
>
>**********************************************************************
>This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
>intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they
>are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify
>the system manager.
>
>This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by
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>
>"
>**********************************************************************
>


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> got an advanced copy from Harper Collins, and I asked VERY nicely.
> John, maybe a silly question, but have you a) seen a proof of MiL or b) have
> you got one <g>
> 
> Paul

Have had a bound galley for a few months. But there are no proofs in 
the sense of ARC's that i know of
-- 
john@crydee.com

http://www.crydee.com



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*** EOOH ***
From: paul.whitby@oxoid.com
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: RE: Murder in LaMut
Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 08:43:29 +0100
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by a bound galley, do you mean the normal hardback first edition release,
that people will get on release date?

Paul

-----Original Message-----
>From: John [mailto:john@crydee.com]
>Sent: 24 May 2002 08:33
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: RE: Murder in LaMut
>
>
>
>
>> got an advanced copy from Harper Collins, and I asked VERY nicely.
>> John, maybe a silly question, but have you a) seen a proof of MiL or 
>b) have
>> you got one <g>
>> 
>> Paul
>
>Have had a bound galley for a few months. But there are no proofs in 
>the sense of ARC's that i know of
>-- 
>john@crydee.com
>
>http://www.crydee.com
>

**********************************************************************
This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they
are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify
the system manager.

This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by
MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses.

"
**********************************************************************



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From: "Donal K. Fellows" <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
In-reply-to: <016301c2028b$48f7bc20$0100000a@faithful>
	(justin.carew@ntlworld.com)
Subject: Re: Pride
References: <AB6D2D68-6DD5-11D6-837F-003065A8A644@bittersea.com> <02e301c2023a$e85134f0$5ac8a8c0@mercatus.local> <016301c2028b$48f7bc20$0100000a@faithful>
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Donal K. Fellows" <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Pride
Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 10:27:36 +0100
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"Justin" <justin.carew@ntlworld.com>
> isn't pride a sin or something like that?

"Pride" is the collective noun for a group of lions.

Donal (Obvious answers 'R' us!)
-- 
Donal K. Fellows, Department of Computer Science, University of Manchester, UK.
(work) fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk     Tel: +44-161-275-6137  (preferred email addr.)
(home) donal@ugglan.demon.co.uk  Tel: +44-1274-401017   Mobile: +44-7957-298955
http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~fellowsd/  (Don't quote my .sig; I've seen it before!)



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From: "James Holden" <james@globalvision.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Kelewan - Gaming
Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 11:14:27 +0100
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From: "James Holden" <james@globalvision.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Kelewan - Gaming
Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 11:14:27 +0100
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I don't think being a great one would be that cool - too much power - the
acoma were good because they were like the others but more inovative.

How can you have a chief great one when they are all considered equals, plus
the power of democracy within the assembly proved to be a good thing for
milamber and various other situations.  Plus, a chief great one is still
just a man and is prone like everyone to take sides on certain issues which
could prove a costly mistake.

One thing that puzzled me was Kevin meeting Pug.  Pug was still a slave and
yet to be taken for training but it seems as though whilst kevin was only
there for a five years Pug had gone from slave to magiciain in the same
time - i was always under the impression that pug spent more than five years
in training under the white robe.

I've always wondered whether Ray's books are thought about and planned as a
set and then written or are they worked on in sequence with each book
planned after the next - i expect it would be the first.

-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Sylvain Guehl
>Sent: 24 May 2002 01:08
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: RE: Kelewan - Gaming
>
>
>I'll be a Great One. Definitivly a Great One.
>
>Between, I always wondered why there wasn't any Great One elected as a
>"chief" or "president" of the Assembly...
>
>(Anyway they all look like Sith Dark Lords I'm sure :)
>
>Syl
>
>> I think i'll be Acoma ;0) We pay no attention to honor or protocol.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of cdunemann
>> Sent: 23 May 2002 08:49
>> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>> Subject: Re:Kelewan - Gaming
>>
>>
>> Sure but then your missing great units like cha-jo warriors, Cha-jo
>> cavalry.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Quoting Sylvain Guehl :
>>
>> > > But I've always thought Kelewan presents itself as a great
>> > environment for a
>> > > strategy-style computer game.
>> > >
>> > > Thoughts??
>> >
>> > Well, there is already "Shogun Total War : Warlord Edition" on PC
>> > CD Rom.
>> >
>> > Change the name of the clan with Kelewan ones, you've got your
>> > game.
>> >
>> > Syl
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -I canna give ya more power captin. She'll fly herself apart!-
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>> "Have you hurled today?" (TM)
>>
>> http://www.Trebuchet.com
>> http://www.Mangonel.com
>> http://www.BackyardArtillery.com
>> http://www.Catapults.info
>> http://www.Onager.info
>> http://www.AncientEngineering.com
>> http://www.WidgetSleeves.com
>>
>> (Free email accounts too!)
>>
>> -- RLT Enterprises --
>>
>>
>
>
>Fenyx Kell.
>


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> by a bound galley, do you mean the normal hardback first edition release,
> that people will get on release date?
> 
Nope, just a bundle of pages spiral bound 

-- 
john@crydee.com

http://www.crydee.com



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Amos, you take all the fun out of life!

Adieu

Jimmy

PS, welcome aboard

>From: "Amos Trask" <amostrask74@hotmail.com>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: new to the list
>Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 01:54:56 -0500
>
>
>
>hello I am new to the list but have been an avid Feist fan for 10 years
>i am reading Hounored enemy right now and am looking forward to the many 
>new books comming out
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
>http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx


_________________________________________________________________
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From: cdunemann <cdunemann@AncientEngineering.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: RE: Kelewan - Gaming
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Pug/Milamber was called to training and by the time he had returned to 
retrieve his former girl friend from slavery she had birthed him a son. 
Who was still very young when they first set eyes upon each other. So the 
time line seems about right.



Quoting James Holden <james@globalvision.com>:

> I don't think being a great one would be that cool - too much power
> - the
> acoma were good because they were like the others but more
> inovative.
> 
> How can you have a chief great one when they are all considered
> equals, plus
> the power of democracy within the assembly proved to be a good
> thing for
> milamber and various other situations.  Plus, a chief great one is
> still
> just a man and is prone like everyone to take sides on certain
> issues which
> could prove a costly mistake.
> 
> One thing that puzzled me was Kevin meeting Pug.  Pug was still a
> slave and
> yet to be taken for training but it seems as though whilst kevin
> was only
> there for a five years Pug had gone from slave to magiciain in the
> same
> time - i was always under the impression that pug spent more than
> five years
> in training under the white robe.
> 
> I've always wondered whether Ray's books are thought about and
> planned as a
> set and then written or are they worked on in sequence with each
> book
> planned after the next - i expect it would be the first.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Sylvain Guehl
> Sent: 24 May 2002 01:08
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Subject: RE: Kelewan - Gaming
> 
> 
> I'll be a Great One. Definitivly a Great One.
> 
> Between, I always wondered why there wasn't any Great One elected
> as a
> "chief" or "president" of the Assembly...
> 
> (Anyway they all look like Sith Dark Lords I'm sure :)
> 
> Syl
> 
> > I think i'll be Acoma ;0) We pay no attention to honor or
> protocol.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of cdunemann
> > Sent: 23 May 2002 08:49
> > To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > Subject: Re:Kelewan - Gaming
> >
> >
> > Sure but then your missing great units like cha-jo warriors,
> Cha-jo
> > cavalry.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Quoting Sylvain Guehl :
> >
> > > > But I've always thought Kelewan presents itself as a great
> > > environment for a
> > > > strategy-style computer game.
> > > >
> > > > Thoughts??
> > >
> > > Well, there is already "Shogun Total War : Warlord Edition" on
> PC
> > > CD Rom.
> > >
> > > Change the name of the clan with Kelewan ones, you've got
> your
> > > game.
> > >
> > > Syl
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -I canna give ya more power captin. She'll fly herself apart!-
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > "Have you hurled today?" (TM)
> >
> > http://www.Trebuchet.com
> > http://www.Mangonel.com
> > http://www.BackyardArtillery.com
> > http://www.Catapults.info
> > http://www.Onager.info
> > http://www.AncientEngineering.com
> > http://www.WidgetSleeves.com
> >
> > (Free email accounts too!)
> >
> > -- RLT Enterprises --
> >
> >
> 
> 
> Fenyx Kell.
> 





-I canna give ya more power captin. She'll fly herself apart!-

------------------------------------------------------------
"Have you hurled today?" (TM)

 http://www.Trebuchet.com
  http://www.Mangonel.com
   http://www.BackyardArtillery.com
    http://www.Catapults.info
     http://www.Onager.info
      http://www.AncientEngineering.com
       http://www.WidgetSleeves.com

(Free email accounts too!)

-- RLT Enterprises --



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From: "James Holden" <james@globalvision.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Kelewan - Gaming
Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 15:37:14 +0100
Message-ID: <EOEGLFBLIODKEIOHNAANGEBNEDAA.james@globalvision.com>
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Holden" <james@globalvision.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Kelewan - Gaming
Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 15:37:14 +0100
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Good point, I must of not remembered the time span from Magician correctly.

-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of cdunemann
>Sent: 24 May 2002 07:24
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: RE: Kelewan - Gaming
>
>
>Pug/Milamber was called to training and by the time he had returned to 
>retrieve his former girl friend from slavery she had birthed him a son. 
>Who was still very young when they first set eyes upon each other. So the 
>time line seems about right.
>
>
>
>Quoting James Holden <james@globalvision.com>:
>
>> I don't think being a great one would be that cool - too much power
>> - the
>> acoma were good because they were like the others but more
>> inovative.
>> 
>> How can you have a chief great one when they are all considered
>> equals, plus
>> the power of democracy within the assembly proved to be a good
>> thing for
>> milamber and various other situations.  Plus, a chief great one is
>> still
>> just a man and is prone like everyone to take sides on certain
>> issues which
>> could prove a costly mistake.
>> 
>> One thing that puzzled me was Kevin meeting Pug.  Pug was still a
>> slave and
>> yet to be taken for training but it seems as though whilst kevin
>> was only
>> there for a five years Pug had gone from slave to magiciain in the
>> same
>> time - i was always under the impression that pug spent more than
>> five years
>> in training under the white robe.
>> 
>> I've always wondered whether Ray's books are thought about and
>> planned as a
>> set and then written or are they worked on in sequence with each
>> book
>> planned after the next - i expect it would be the first.
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Sylvain Guehl
>> Sent: 24 May 2002 01:08
>> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>> Subject: RE: Kelewan - Gaming
>> 
>> 
>> I'll be a Great One. Definitivly a Great One.
>> 
>> Between, I always wondered why there wasn't any Great One elected
>> as a
>> "chief" or "president" of the Assembly...
>> 
>> (Anyway they all look like Sith Dark Lords I'm sure :)
>> 
>> Syl
>> 
>> > I think i'll be Acoma ;0) We pay no attention to honor or
>> protocol.
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>> > [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of cdunemann
>> > Sent: 23 May 2002 08:49
>> > To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>> > Subject: Re:Kelewan - Gaming
>> >
>> >
>> > Sure but then your missing great units like cha-jo warriors,
>> Cha-jo
>> > cavalry.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Quoting Sylvain Guehl :
>> >
>> > > > But I've always thought Kelewan presents itself as a great
>> > > environment for a
>> > > > strategy-style computer game.
>> > > >
>> > > > Thoughts??
>> > >
>> > > Well, there is already "Shogun Total War : Warlord Edition" on
>> PC
>> > > CD Rom.
>> > >
>> > > Change the name of the clan with Kelewan ones, you've got
>> your
>> > > game.
>> > >
>> > > Syl
>> > >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > -I canna give ya more power captin. She'll fly herself apart!-
>> >
>> > ------------------------------------------------------------
>> > "Have you hurled today?" (TM)
>> >
>> > http://www.Trebuchet.com
>> > http://www.Mangonel.com
>> > http://www.BackyardArtillery.com
>> > http://www.Catapults.info
>> > http://www.Onager.info
>> > http://www.AncientEngineering.com
>> > http://www.WidgetSleeves.com
>> >
>> > (Free email accounts too!)
>> >
>> > -- RLT Enterprises --
>> >
>> >
>> 
>> 
>> Fenyx Kell.
>> 
>
>
>
>
>
>-I canna give ya more power captin. She'll fly herself apart!-
>
>------------------------------------------------------------
>"Have you hurled today?" (TM)
>
> http://www.Trebuchet.com
>  http://www.Mangonel.com
>   http://www.BackyardArtillery.com
>    http://www.Catapults.info
>     http://www.Onager.info
>      http://www.AncientEngineering.com
>	http://www.WidgetSleeves.com
>
>(Free email accounts too!)
>
>-- RLT Enterprises --
>


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Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 07:55:15 -0700
Subject: Re: Pride
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 07:55:15 -0700
Subject: Re: Pride
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Thursday, May 23, 2002, at 07:41 PM, Steve Weghorn wrote:

> Mr. Feist do you find that your writing style can sometimes be a little 
> off, what I mean is that sometimes I sit down and I write ten pages 
> with no problem, and then other times I find it hard to even write a 
> paragraph.  Not that I can't think of anything it's just that sometimes 
> the pieces don't fall where I want them too.  If that makes sense.
>                                                              Thanks
>                                                         Steve Weghorn


Ya, it makes sense, and the answer is "rarely."  You do something for 
twenty plus years, you get the hang of  it.

Best, R.E.F.

----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.

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From: Joshua Stanton <jasharkalain@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Pride
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 08:57:33 -0700 (PDT)
From: Joshua Stanton <jasharkalain@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Pride
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I don't know what I was originally thinking, but I
swear it made sense to me.  *shrugs*

Joshua

--- Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com> wrote:

> > For better or for worse, would you say? (Obviously
> > you've gotten more efficient, as far as how long
> it
> > takes to write a novel, but do you like your 'more
> > "brisk" ... narrative style' more than what you
> had
> > with Magician?)
> >
> 
> I think if you stop and reflect, that falls into the
> "blinding flash of 
> the obvious" category.  Of course I like the style,
> as it's the style 
> I've evolved.
> 
> Styles don't land on your keyboard and tell you how
> to write.  They're 
> the product of editorial choices made over and over
> and over, and as a 
> writer, I like my skill set now a lot better than I
> did 24 years ago.
> 
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
> 
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be
> explained away by 
> stupidity.
> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience
http://launch.yahoo.com



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From: JEEPMONSTER69@aol.com
Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 11:58:14 EDT
Subject: Re: Pride
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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In a message dated 5/24/2002 5:48:36 AM Eastern Daylight Time, 
fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk writes:


> > isn't pride a sin or something like that?
> 
> "Pride" is the collective noun for a group of lions.
> 

Pride is a sin, one of the Seven Deadly Sins, Gluttony, Greed, Sloth, Wrath, 
Pride, Lust and Envy.  Pride in this case means that you think that you and 
what you have are better than everyone else's.

                                                       Peace,
                                                             Matt
"Lets Roll."- Todd Beamer
USA, Muthafacko!

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From: Gkhd11a@aol.com
Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 15:45:50 EDT
Subject: Re: Pride
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In a message dated 5/23/02 9:45:38 PM Central Daylight Time, 
pelvislives@hotmail.com writes:


> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mr. Feist do you find that your writing style can sometimes be a little 
> off, what I mean is that sometimes I sit down and I write ten pages with no 
> problem, and then other times I find it hard to even write a paragraph.  
> Not that I can't think of anything it's just that sometimes the pieces 
> don't fall where I want them too.  If that makes sense.
>                                                              Thanks 
>                                                         Steve Weghorn
> 
> 
> 
> 

      The same thing happens to me. The way I get around it is by laying back 
and envisioning what has been happening, and what you want to happen.  That 
usualy gets me writing a lot quicker and easier than if I hadn't.  Any time I 
envision the scene before I write it, I write it much faster and easier than 
if I didn't.  I don't know if that is a common thing that most amateur (or 
professional) writers do, or not, as I found that out on my own.

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From: "Steve Weghorn" <pelvislives@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Pride
Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 16:21:09 -0400
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From: "Steve Weghorn" <pelvislives@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Pride
Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 16:21:09 -0400
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Yeah that tends to be how I get around it.

Steve Weghorn


>From: Gkhd11a@aol.com 
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu 
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu 
>Subject: Re: Pride 
>Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 15:45:50 EDT 
> 
>In a message dated 5/23/02 9:45:38 PM Central Daylight Time, 
>pelvislives@hotmail.com writes: 
> 
> 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Mr. Feist do you find that your writing style can sometimes be a little 
> > off, what I mean is that sometimes I sit down and I write ten pages with no
> > problem, and then other times I find it hard to even write a paragraph. 
> > Not that I can't think of anything it's just that sometimes the pieces 
> > don't fall where I want them too. If that makes sense. 
> > Thanks 
> > Steve Weghorn 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> 
> The same thing happens to me. The way I get around it is by laying back 
>and envisioning what has been happening, and what you want to happen. That 
>usualy gets me writing a lot quicker and easier than if I hadn't. Any time I 
>envision the scene before I write it, I write it much faster and easier than 
>if I didn't. I don't know if that is a common thing that most amateur (or 
>professional) writers do, or not, as I found that out on my own. 
> 

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From: Caranorn Aglaredhel <caranorn@cmdnet.lu>
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User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; fr-FR; rv:0.9.4) Gecko/20011130 Netscape6/6.2.1
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Subject: Re: Pride
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Thought I'd just chime in here as well. I often got that writers block, 
but generally work around it by taking a look at some other aspect of 
what I am working on (as my world is not yet fully developped, for 
instance anotehr continent, or some history etc.). If nothing concerning 
writting proper works I tend to work on one of my game versions of the 
world (wargame, skirmish game and rpg). Generally, I just go around 
doing one of those things when I feel stuck with another. That way my 
world has progressed at least somewhat.

But then I also ain't no professional writter.

Marc aka Caran...

Gkhd11a@aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 5/23/02 9:45:38 PM Central Daylight Time, 
> pelvislives@hotmail.com writes:
>
>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Mr. Feist do you find that your writing style can sometimes be a 
>> little off, what I mean is that sometimes I sit down and I write ten 
>> pages with no problem, and then other times I find it hard to even 
>> write a paragraph.  Not that I can't think of anything it's just that 
>> sometimes the pieces don't fall where I want them too.  If that makes 
>> sense.
>>                                                             Thanks
>>                                                        Steve Weghorn
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>      The same thing happens to me. The way I get around it is by 
> laying back and envisioning what has been happening, and what you want 
> to happen.  That usualy gets me writing a lot quicker and easier than 
> if I hadn't.  Any time I envision the scene before I write it, I write 
> it much faster and easier than if I didn't.  I don't know if that is a 
> common thing that most amateur (or professional) writers do, or not, 
> as I found that out on my own.




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From: Matt Sainsbury <lord_al_rashid@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Pride
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 23:43:28 -0700 (PDT)
From: Matt Sainsbury <lord_al_rashid@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Pride
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Although I guess technically everyone gets "writes
block" as you get used to writing, you find there are
a number of ways of working around it. All the other
ideas mentioned earlier are great, and will work in
many cases. Other things you could try:

 - Perhaps try and write the scene you are "stuck" on
from a different perspective, often you'll find the
block comes not from an inability to get the idea on a
page, but rather your mind "rebelling" against the
persective you've told it to structure the scene
around. for instance the "enemy" rather than just your
"hero." Write how he/she feels, what they want, what
exactly they think of the hero. Before you know it
you'll have a scene, simple enough there to change it
over to who you want the reader to see the scene
through. Added benefit is you'll have mroe detail of
your villian or whatever to draw on. You might never
use what you have written, but it does help to get
what you're thinking on paper, which is infinately
easier to work on then.

 - Write something else, write a 1000 word short story
on somethign entirely different, write non-fiction,
write an essay on Lord of the Rings or Magician, in
other words do something different. Different forms of
writting require different writing skills, develop
these skills a little more and you might find it just
a little easier structuring your scene of your main
work when you next sit down to it.
 
 - Read a couple of chapters from other books of the
genre you are writing in. The more you read of a
genre, the greater the understanding of writting that
genre you will have.

 Finally, just get SOMETHING down on paper. When I
write, my paragraphs are literally 3-4 lines long,
absolute bare bones stuff that probably would make no
sence whatsoever to anyone but me when read. But the
point is, noone else is going to read it, and now you
have a paragraph to work on. Write the entire story in
this fashion first, then, on your second draft, flesh
out the paragraphs a little, include more detailed
descriptions etc. Each draft after you add some more,
untill buy the 5th or so, you have something
resembling a complete work. I find this method
bypasses writers block almost completely, and although
it may seem a slower method (and probably is, I can't
remember how long it used to take me to write when I
tried to get everything in first draft), the value for
avoiding frustration is priceless.

 I don't know if any of these have already been
covered by others, I've only read the two e-mails
below, so I appologise if they have.

Hope this helps!

Matt
--- Caranorn Aglaredhel <caranorn@cmdnet.lu> wrote:
> Thought I'd just chime in here as well. I often got
> that writers block, 
> but generally work around it by taking a look at
> some other aspect of 
> what I am working on (as my world is not yet fully
> developped, for 
> instance anotehr continent, or some history etc.).
> If nothing concerning 
> writting proper works I tend to work on one of my
> game versions of the 
> world (wargame, skirmish game and rpg). Generally, I
> just go around 
> doing one of those things when I feel stuck with
> another. That way my 
> world has progressed at least somewhat.
> 
> But then I also ain't no professional writter.
> 
> Marc aka Caran...
> 
> Gkhd11a@aol.com wrote:
> 
> > In a message dated 5/23/02 9:45:38 PM Central
> Daylight Time, 
> > pelvislives@hotmail.com writes:
> >
> >
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Mr. Feist do you find that your writing style can
> sometimes be a 
> >> little off, what I mean is that sometimes I sit
> down and I write ten 
> >> pages with no problem, and then other times I
> find it hard to even 
> >> write a paragraph.  Not that I can't think of
> anything it's just that 
> >> sometimes the pieces don't fall where I want them
> too.  If that makes 
> >> sense.
> >>                                                  
>           Thanks
> >>                                                  
>      Steve Weghorn
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >      The same thing happens to me. The way I get
> around it is by 
> > laying back and envisioning what has been
> happening, and what you want 
> > to happen.  That usualy gets me writing a lot
> quicker and easier than 
> > if I hadn't.  Any time I envision the scene before
> I write it, I write 
> > it much faster and easier than if I didn't.  I
> don't know if that is a 
> > common thing that most amateur (or professional)
> writers do, or not, 
> > as I found that out on my own.
> 
> 


__________________________________________________
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To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
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Subject: Writing Methods Was Re: Pride
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From: "Cameron Gurr" <gurrc@brightontown.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Writing Methods Was Re: Pride
Date: Sat, 25 May 2002 15:13:40 +0800
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I just want to comment on Matt's writing method below.

I personally don't do this, for no real reason. I sometimes feel that this
is "cheating" but I can't understand why I would think that. Matt does say
this is slower, adn I can see that it would be, but with the invention of
Word Processors, it wouldn't be that much slower.

I personally try to jam as much detail into the story as I can, as I go
along. I always have trouble writing something that I've done before (as in
when the computer crashes adn you lose the last 10 pages becasue the
cheat-a#$e WP you use doesn't have auto save or crash recovery).

I also seem to have trouble keeping to a pre-thought out storyline. I
recently finished something rather large. I'd had a scene picked out to
close the novel for about six months. It was as clear as day to me for
almost the entire second half of the writing process. i knew exactly what
was going to happen and how it was going to fit in with everything else.

And in the end it just didn't go in. Probably in the last week of writing,
when I actually started putting the last scenes together, it just didn't
seem to fit any more. I wonder if Matt has the same kind of problems after a
first draft is done.

Cameron.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Matt Sainsbury" <lord_al_rashid@yahoo.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Saturday, May 25, 2002 2:43 PM
Subject: Re: Pride



>  Finally, just get SOMETHING down on paper. When I
> write, my paragraphs are literally 3-4 lines long,
> absolute bare bones stuff that probably would make no
> sence whatsoever to anyone but me when read. But the
> point is, noone else is going to read it, and now you
> have a paragraph to work on. Write the entire story in
> this fashion first, then, on your second draft, flesh
> out the paragraphs a little, include more detailed
> descriptions etc. Each draft after you add some more,
> untill buy the 5th or so, you have something
> resembling a complete work. I find this method
> bypasses writers block almost completely, and although
> it may seem a slower method (and probably is, I can't
> remember how long it used to take me to write when I
> tried to get everything in first draft), the value for
> avoiding frustration is priceless.
>
>  I don't know if any of these have already been
> covered by others, I've only read the two e-mails
> below, so I appologise if they have.
>
> Hope this helps!
>
> Matt



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Errrmmmm............ FeistFan?

Regards
Chris

Disbelief in magic can force a poor soul into believing in government and
business. 
Tom Robbins


-------Original Message-------
>
>From: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Date: 22 May 2002 21:25:07
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: New Name?
>
>Sorry about the last mail...I hit enter prematurely (bloody AOL). 
>
>Anyway, I was thinking about a name for fans of Rayomd E. Feist, as a sort
>of calling card. Before I front any suggestions, I would just like some
>feedback from my fellow listmembers. 
>
>Thanks, 
>Matt 
>
>"Lets Roll."- Todd Beamer 
>USA, Muthafacko! 

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Well my sister has been married 5 times, the first for 12 years, and
she still hasn't got the hang of it :->

Also I have been working on making a fortune for 20 years and still
haven't got the hang of it :-)

Regards 
Chris

Barometer, n.: An ingenious instrument which indicates what kind of weather
we are having. 
Ambrose Bierce (1842 - 1914), The Devil's Dictionary

>Ya, it makes sense, and the answer is "rarely." You do something for 
>twenty plus years, you get the hang of it.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>
----



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Subject: Personality Types?
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*** EOOH ***
From: "authement" <authement@delanet.com>
To: "FEISTFANS" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Personality Types?
Date: Sat, 25 May 2002 09:10:03 -0400
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Hi Ray!  I have recently begun looking into personality types (Myer-Briggs
for example) and was wondering if you have ever used them in writing.  I
mean, do you know what “type” your characters are or have you ever used
personality typing to decide how characters would/should react?

What about the other writers out there…anyone ever used this stuff to help
develop a character?

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Date: Sat, 25 May 2002 10:17:39 -0700
Subject: Re: Personality Types?
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On Saturday, May 25, 2002, at 06:10 AM, authement wrote:

> Hi Ray! I have recently begun looking into personality types 
> (Myer-Briggs for example) and was wondering if you have ever used them 
> in writing. I mean, do you know what “type” your characters are or have 
> you ever used personality typing to decide how characters would/should 
> react?

No.  If I wanted to, I could break down a character like Arutha for 
example, i.e. pretty type-a, lots of anal-retentive tendencies, overly 
self-critical, a bit vain, etc.  But why bother?  The character is fully 
fleshed out in my mind so I don't need to play the label game.

Best, R.E.F.

----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.

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From: Smoking88@aol.com
Date: Sat, 25 May 2002 19:43:51 EDT
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hello all.  I myself am a relatively new Feist fan.  I happened to discover 
Mr.  Feists work last November.  I probably started a little out of sorts, my 
first reading was t Krondor the Betrayal.  I would like to point out that I 
do not see feists later work as worse.  I have now read the entire Magician 
series, as well as Assasains and am now plunged deep into Tear of the gods.  
However if Betrayal had not been so good, I would not be hooked on Feist as I 
now am.  I also look forward to finishing whats been written, so I can start 
looking forward to what is yet to come.

Joe

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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sun, 26 May 2002 10:46:48 +1000 (GMT+1000)
From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Pride
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Welcome to the list!

Before you ask any questions, might be an idea to check out the feist faq
(http://www.psihawk.com/feist).. but be warned they're might be some
spoilers for other books there.




> hello all.  I myself am a relatively new Feist fan.  I happened to discover
> Mr.  Feists work last November.  I probably started a little out of sorts, my
> first reading was t Krondor the Betrayal.  I would like to point out that I
> do not see feists later work as worse.  I have now read the entire Magician
> series, as well as Assasains and am now plunged deep into Tear of the gods.
> However if Betrayal had not been so good, I would not be hooked on Feist as I
> now am.  I also look forward to finishing whats been written, so I can start
> looking forward to what is yet to come.
>
> Joe
>

Thanks
Darragh
================================================
University of Queensland
Information Technology / Arts (History) student
[Email #1] s356179@student.uq.edu.au
[Email #2] squik@solutionone.com.au
[Web Site] http://hainsworth.ath.cx/~squik/
================================================



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From: Matt Sainsbury <lord_al_rashid@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Writing Methods Was Re: Pride
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Date: Sat, 25 May 2002 18:25:53 -0700 (PDT)
From: Matt Sainsbury <lord_al_rashid@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Writing Methods Was Re: Pride
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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> I personally don't do this, for no real reason. I
> sometimes feel that this
> is "cheating" but I can't understand why I would
> think that. Matt does say
> this is slower, adn I can see that it would be, but
> with the invention of
> Word Processors, it wouldn't be that much slower.

No you're right, probably not that much slower.
Insofar as it being "cheating," it makes it easier for
me to write yea, but I never saw it as some form of
"shortcut." It's really just the way I've learnt to
write, it feels natural and all that :-)
 
> I personally try to jam as much detail into the
> story as I can, as I go
> along. I always have trouble writing something that
> I've done before (as in
> when the computer crashes adn you lose the last 10
> pages becasue the
> cheat-a#$e WP you use doesn't have auto save or
> crash recovery).

The method I use will definately not work for you then
*lol* I find with my writing, I can never leave it
alone, I've always got to be re-writing, editing,
trying new things. It's then fairly easy for me to
"add stuff" to my writing. Trying to get it all out at
once will all the detail and so on causes me serious
headaches and a writers block of epic proportions.
It's just too much for me to think about in one go.
 
> I also seem to have trouble keeping to a pre-thought
> out storyline. I
> recently finished something rather large. I'd had a
> scene picked out to
> close the novel for about six months. It was as
> clear as day to me for
> almost the entire second half of the writing
> process. i knew exactly what
> was going to happen and how it was going to fit in
> with everything else.

Ahhhh see, I write something off the top of my head
and I have the same problem. My solution is to write a
three or four page plan that tells me exactly where
the story is going. To make sure that I'm going to be
writing a plot I'll like in the end, I'll usually make
changes to the plan over the month before I begin the
story itself. Then I have a plan I'm happy with, I
know the story, and I'm ready to start. 
 
> And in the end it just didn't go in. Probably in the
> last week of writing,
> when I actually started putting the last scenes
> together, it just didn't
> seem to fit any more. I wonder if Matt has the same
> kind of problems after a
> first draft is done.

Always, I don't think I've gone through a single draft
(not just the first one) where I'll say to meself
"good, everything works." I'll usually end up cutting
huge amounts of text in the first draft, then
subsequent drafts I'll cut less and less. When I'm
only cutting tiny bits and pieces, I know the work is
pretty much done. When I do remove something, I keep
it, printed or whatever, and if nothing else I write
to replace it works, then I'll go back to it and see
if it's more the way it's writen then whats writen
thats the problem.


Matt




__________________________________________________
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Subject: hi?
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Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 08:40:54 +1000 (GMT+1000)
From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: hi?
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Hi, wondering if I've been unsubscribed. No mail from the list in the last
day....weird.



Thanks
Darragh
================================================
University of Queensland
Information Technology / Arts (History) student
[Email #1] s356179@student.uq.edu.au
[Email #2] squik@solutionone.com.au
[Web Site] http://hainsworth.ath.cx/~squik/
================================================



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*** EOOH ***
From: DuncanMacLeod89@aol.com
Date: Sun, 26 May 2002 18:51:10 EDT
Subject: Re: hi?
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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No you weren't unsubscribed. This list has been quiet though. Ussualy I can 
get off for ten minutes then get back on and have three messages. I'm sure 
some one will start another topic soon.

-Chance
"We who are truly brave, will never live in fear."-The Rock

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*** EOOH ***
From: dreamfish@space.com
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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: hi?
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Date: Sun, 26 May 2002 19:04:37 -0700 (PDT)
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Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

On Mon, 27 May 2002, Darragh Murray wrote

> 
> Hi, wondering if I've been unsubscribed. No mail from the list in the last
> day....weird.
> 
> 
> 
 
 Hi there,
 
   Holiday Week-end in the US and a week-end makes for
a quiet List.
 
 
 Anita
 
 
 'Every happy ending needs to have a start.'

___________________________________________________________________
Join the Space Program: Get FREE E-mail at http://www.space.com.



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From: "Wouter Durnez" <arutha_of_krondor@hotmail.com>
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yeah, i was wondering the same thing too
i thought i got kicked for offending someone (not that i did, i think)
thx for clearin this up

>From: dreamfish@space.com
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: Re: hi?
>Date: Sun, 26 May 2002 19:04:37 -0700 (PDT)
>
>On Mon, 27 May 2002, Darragh Murray wrote
>
> >
> > Hi, wondering if I've been unsubscribed. No mail from
>the list in the last
> > day....weird.
> >
> >
> >
>
>  Hi there,
>
>    Holiday Week-end in the US and a week-end makes for
>a quiet List.
>
>
>  Anita
>
>
>  'Every happy ending needs to have a start.'
>
>___________________________________________________________________
>Join the Space Program: Get FREE E-mail at http://www.space.com.
>




_________________________________________________________________
Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
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I asked once if anyone knew Richard A. Knaak. How about Stakpole? I've read 
his Star Wars novels (the Rogue Squadron ones) but i've never gotten around 
to reading his fantasy stuff.

An excellent writer, from what i've read by him so far.

An author who is probably less heard of in these circles is Susan Cooper 
(wrote Over Sea, Under Stone)... just curious to hear if anyones ever read 
anything by her. I did a long time ago, and the books have a special 
atmosphere to them. Gaelic mythology and supernatural creepiness in a modern 
day-setting... reading Faerie Tale reminded me of her stuff. :)

David



_________________________________________________________________
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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: RE: Michael A. Stackpole
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*** EOOH ***
From: Scott.VanderPloeg@kctcs.edu
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: RE: Michael A. Stackpole
Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 16:20:07 -0400
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David--  

I'd guess that lots of folks should know her _Dark is Rising_ series.  I
agree that this, at least, is high quality stuff, and suitable for young
readers (at least in terms of language).  Some of Gaiman is like this, but
with a cold sharp edge--try his _Stardust_, eg.

...sorry I know little about Stackpole....

Scott v/d P

-----Original Message-----
>From: David Christensen [mailto:damc84@hotmail.com]
>Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2002 2:34 PM
>To: feistfans-l@cornell.edu
>Subject: Michael A. Stackpole
>
>
>I asked once if anyone knew Richard A. Knaak. How about Stakpole? I've read 
>his Star Wars novels (the Rogue Squadron ones) but i've never gotten around 
>to reading his fantasy stuff.
>
>An excellent writer, from what i've read by him so far.
>
>An author who is probably less heard of in these circles is Susan Cooper 
>(wrote Over Sea, Under Stone)... just curious to hear if anyones ever read 
>anything by her. I did a long time ago, and the books have a special 
>atmosphere to them. Gaelic mythology and supernatural creepiness in a modern
>
>day-setting... reading Faerie Tale reminded me of her stuff. :)
>
>David
>
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com
>


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From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
References: <53295CD2A7C5D2119FCD0008C7F473890AFB2295@agency7.state.ky.us>
Subject: Re: Michael A. Stackpole
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Michael A. Stackpole
Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 21:43:18 -0500
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One of the notable things that Stackpole did was a piece called the
Pulling Report which is a notable defense of Role-playing Games,
because of the attacks upon it by Patricia Pulling (noted for her
anti-RPG/Satanic crusade in the 1980's and early 1990's, though I
suspect she is still around causing mischief for gamers).

If anyone is interested, here is the link to the report:
http://www.rpg.net/252/quellen/stackpole/pulling_report.html

It is lengthy, be advised it takes a while to read.

----- Original Message ----- {
From: <Scott.VanderPloeg@kctcs.edu>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2002 3:20 PM
Subject: RE: Michael A. Stackpole


> David--
>
> I'd guess that lots of folks should know her _Dark is Rising_ series.  I
> agree that this, at least, is high quality stuff, and suitable for young
> readers (at least in terms of language).  Some of Gaiman is like this, but
> with a cold sharp edge--try his _Stardust_, eg.
>
> ...sorry I know little about Stackpole....
>
> Scott v/d P
>
>
> I asked once if anyone knew Richard A. Knaak. How about Stakpole? I've read
> his Star Wars novels (the Rogue Squadron ones) but i've never gotten around
> to reading his fantasy stuff.
>
> An excellent writer, from what i've read by him so far.
>
> An author who is probably less heard of in these circles is Susan Cooper
> (wrote Over Sea, Under Stone)... just curious to hear if anyones ever read
> anything by her. I did a long time ago, and the books have a special
> atmosphere to them. Gaelic mythology and supernatural creepiness in a modern
>
> day-setting... reading Faerie Tale reminded me of her stuff. :)
>
> David
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com
>
>



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From: Joshua Stanton <jasharkalain@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: Michael A. Stackpole
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 23:19:48 -0700 (PDT)
From: Joshua Stanton <jasharkalain@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: Michael A. Stackpole
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

--- Scott.VanderPloeg@kctcs.edu wrote:
> David--  
> 
> I'd guess that lots of folks should know her _Dark
> is Rising_ series.  I
> agree that this, at least, is high quality stuff,
> and suitable for young
> readers (at least in terms of language).  Some of
> Gaiman is like this, but
> with a cold sharp edge--try his _Stardust_, eg.

If you read Neil Gaiman, you have to read his
Neverwhere.  Absolutly a Great book, IMHO. (The
Mini-series--which actually came first--survives
certain budget cuts to prove the brilliance of the
story.)

Joshua


> 
> ...sorry I know little about Stackpole....
> 
> Scott v/d P
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: David Christensen [mailto:damc84@hotmail.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2002 2:34 PM
> To: feistfans-l@cornell.edu
> Subject: Michael A. Stackpole
> 
> 
> I asked once if anyone knew Richard A. Knaak. How
> about Stakpole? I've read 
> his Star Wars novels (the Rogue Squadron ones) but
> i've never gotten around 
> to reading his fantasy stuff.
> 
> An excellent writer, from what i've read by him so
> far.
> 
> An author who is probably less heard of in these
> circles is Susan Cooper 
> (wrote Over Sea, Under Stone)... just curious to
> hear if anyones ever read 
> anything by her. I did a long time ago, and the
> books have a special 
> atmosphere to them. Gaelic mythology and
>              creepiness in a modern
> 
> day-setting... reading Faerie Tale reminded me of
> her stuff. :)
> 
> David
> 
> 
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com
> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com



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From: "Amos Trask" <amostrask74@hotmail.com>
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Subject: slow 
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is the list always this slow?




Amos

"Ah Arutha you take all the fun out of life."


_________________________________________________________________
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http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx



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Subject: RE: slow 
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From: "Chris Bolan" <c.bolan@ecu.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: slow 
Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 18:39:17 +0800
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It goes in spurts

Chris

-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Amos Trask
>Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2002 6:31 PM
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: slow 
>
>
>is the list always this slow?
>
>
>
>
>Amos
>
>"Ah Arutha you take all the fun out of life."
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
>http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
>


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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Holden" <james@globalvision.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: slow 
Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 11:55:26 +0100
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Well I've finished every book I have of Ray's, for about the tenth time and
I must say its equally as good every time - Ray, you gotta write books
faster ;-)

I always go through the same routine, once every couple of years I have to
re-read them, I read from Magician through to Shards - the legacy's and then
empire.  I cant seem (dont want to) read the legacy books in the time-order.

Ive just finished reading Angelas Ashes, now onto 'Tis, after spending weeks
reading in Rays style  trying to read a book with no speech marks is
difficult - but I must say that if you havent read them you should - I put
it up there with Five Chimneys for chilling real-life auto-biogs.

-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Amos Trask
>Sent: 29 May 2002 11:31
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: slow
>
>
>is the list always this slow?
>
>
>
>
>Amos
>
>"Ah Arutha you take all the fun out of life."
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
>http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
>


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Subject: RE: slow 
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*** EOOH ***
From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: slow 
Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 19:03:26 +0800
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Enjoy the peace while it lasts. In a week or so a new book comes out. I'm
sure the level of activity shall rise somewhat higher than where it
currently resides (like that would be hard).

Dave



> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu 
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Amos Trask
> Sent: Wednesday, 29 May 2002 6:31 PM
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Subject: slow 
> 
> 
> is the list always this slow?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Amos
> 
> "Ah Arutha you take all the fun out of life."
> 
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
> http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
> 

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From: "Andy Holcombe" <andy_wan_kenobi@hotmail.com>
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Subject: RE: Michael A. Stackpole
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Subject: RE: Michael A. Stackpole
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> > -----Original Message-----
> >
> > I asked once if anyone knew Richard A. Knaak. How
> > about Stakpole?

I've only read his Star Wars books (half of the X-Wing series; I, Jedi (a 
first person story); and the Dark Tide Duology in the New Jedi Order; plus a 
few short stories for Star Wars Adventure Journal) and comics (X-Wing: Rogue 
Squadron and Mara Jade: By the Emperor's Hand), but I recommend them.  I 
believe he wrote some Battletech/Robotech books as well.

Andy Holcombe
Andy_wan_Kenobi@hotmail.com

"To err is human, but to really foul things up requires a computer."
     -Farmers' Almanac 1978

"I don't give a damn for a man who can only spell a word one way."
     -Mark Twain

"History will be kind to me, for I intend to write it."
     -Winston Churchill

_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com



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Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 04:20:38 +0800
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 04:20:38 +0800
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: Shawn Chung <shawnc@starhub.net.sg>
Subject: RE: Michael A. Stackpole
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

>>  > -----Original Message-----
>>>
>>>  I asked once if anyone knew Richard A. Knaak. How
>>>  about Stakpole?
>
>I've only read his Star Wars books (half of the X-Wing series; I, 
>Jedi (a first person story); and the Dark Tide Duology in the New 
>Jedi Order; plus a few short stories for Star Wars Adventure 
>Journal) and comics (X-Wing: Rogue Squadron and Mara Jade: By the 
>Emperor's Hand), but I recommend them.  I believe he wrote some 
>Battletech/Robotech books as well.

I've read all his SW books, as well as all of his fantasy stuff.  I 
find him to be quite a good writer, although I have been a bit 
disappointed with his last book, Fortress Draconis.

A friend told me that his Battletech stuff is so good that he's the 
only author that's allowed to change 'core' characters.

His website is: http://www.stormwolf.com/

His appeal to his SW and Battletech fans to buy his fantasy stuff is 
of some interest, although I've had other friends express some 
negative opinions this...
-- 
----

SeeYa StarSide

Shawn Chung

--------------

"Is it not nifty? Worship the comic."
Sluggy Freelance - www.sluggy.com



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Don' t rush art. I've read Ray's books over and over again too, my exposure
to classics is limited(Mythologies of Ancient Civilizations: Egypt, Babylon,
Greece and Rome) but Riftwar and Serpentwar Sagas have that same feel. I'm a
little behind on the news;is the new book Krondor:The Crawler or Talon of
the Siver Hawk? (and are those still the titles?)

Kev 
Caution:TRUST ME
-------Original Message-------
>
>From: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Date: Wednesday, May 29, 2002 03:58:53 AM
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: RE: slow
>
>Well I've finished every book I have of Ray's, for about the tenth time and
>I must say its equally as good every time - Ray, you gotta write books
>faster ;-)
>
>I always go through the same routine, once every couple of years I have to
>re-read them, I read from Magician through to Shards - the legacy's and then
>empire. I cant seem (dont want to) read the legacy books in the time-order.
>
>Ive just finished reading Angelas Ashes, now onto 'Tis, after spending weeks
>reading in Rays style trying to read a book with no speech marks is
>difficult - but I must say that if you havent read them you should - I put
>it up there with Five Chimneys for chilling real-life auto-biogs.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Amos Trask
>Sent: 29 May 2002 11:31
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: slow
>
>
>is the list always this slow?
>
>
>
>
>Amos
>
>"Ah Arutha you take all the fun out of life."
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
>http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
>


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Subject: Re: slow
Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 19:43:34 -0400
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Sean Fister" <sean@hope.kih.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: slow
Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 19:43:34 -0400
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Neither.  The next book to come out is Murder in LaMut written by Ray and
Joel Rosenberg.  Then in August we get Talon of the Silver Hawk and 20th
Aniversary of Magician.  Krondor: The Crawler hasn't even been written yet
according to Ray.  Please note that these dates are only for the British
Market based on amazon.co.uk release dates.

Sean Fister

----- Original Message -----
From: "Kevin" <kevykev@sbcglobal.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2002 7:15 PM
Subject: RE: slow


> Don' t rush art. I've read Ray's books over and over again too, my exposure
> to classics is limited(Mythologies of Ancient Civilizations: Egypt, Babylon,
> Greece and Rome) but Riftwar and Serpentwar Sagas have that same feel. I'm a
> little behind on the news;is the new book Krondor:The Crawler or Talon of
> the Siver Hawk? (and are those still the titles?)
>
> Kev
> Caution:TRUST ME
> -------Original Message-------
>
> From: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Date: Wednesday, May 29, 2002 03:58:53 AM
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Subject: RE: slow
>
> Well I've finished every book I have of Ray's, for about the tenth time and
> I must say its equally as good every time - Ray, you gotta write books
> faster ;-)
>
> I always go through the same routine, once every couple of years I have to
> re-read them, I read from Magician through to Shards - the legacy's and then
> empire. I cant seem (dont want to) read the legacy books in the time-order.
>
> Ive just finished reading Angelas Ashes, now onto 'Tis, after spending weeks
> reading in Rays style trying to read a book with no speech marks is
> difficult - but I must say that if you havent read them you should - I put
> it up there with Five Chimneys for chilling real-life auto-biogs.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Amos Trask
> Sent: 29 May 2002 11:31
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Subject: slow
>
>
> is the list always this slow?
>
>
>
>
> Amos
>
> "Ah Arutha you take all the fun out of life."
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
> http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
>
>



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Subject: Re: slow
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*** EOOH ***
From: VinMac3l6@aol.com
Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 22:12:07 EDT
Subject: Re: slow
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

In a message dated 5/29/2002 8:13:21 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
sean@hope.kih.net writes:


> Neither.  The next book to come out is Murder in Lamut written by Ray and
> Joel Rosenberg.  Then in August we get Talon of the Silver Hawk and 20th
> Aniversary of Magician.  Krondor: The Crawler hasn't even been written yet
> according to Ray.  Please note that these dates are only for the British
> Market based on amazon.co.uk release dates.
> 
> Sean Fister
> 

I don't know about the rest of you fine people, but I went ahead and ordered 
both books off Amazon.uk. Its going to cost you about $70.00 American, but I 
believe its well worth it. Its been so long since I have read a NEW Feist 
book that I think im getting the shakes.

PV2 Van Tongeren, Ft. Detrick MD.

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From: "Paddyjack [ ]" <erykel@lycos.com>
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Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 13:03:34 -0400
From: "Paddyjack [ ]" <erykel@lycos.com>
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>I don't know about the rest of you fine people, but I went ahead and ordered 
>both books off Amazon.uk. Its going to cost you about $70.00 American, but I 
>believe its well worth it. Its been so long since I have read a NEW Feist 
>book that I think im getting the shakes.
>
>PV2 Van Tongeren, Ft. Detrick MD.
>


Yeah, yesterday I suddenly recalled that MiL wouldn't be available
here in Canada, so I passed the order to Amazon.uk right away!

:-)

Will wait for Talon to hit the stores though.

PJ


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*** EOOH ***
From: Smoking88@aol.com
Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 16:18:12 EDT
Subject: Re: slow
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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is MiL already out in England?  if not when?  just curious, cause i have a 
friend there right now. thanks
joe

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Subject: RE: slow
Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 21:28:38 +0100
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*** EOOH ***
From: paul.whitby@oxoid.com
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: RE: slow
Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 21:28:38 +0100
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I am in Canada at the moment, lovely weather, lovely people, great place!

Paul

-----Original Message-----
>From: Paddyjack [ ] [mailto:erykel@lycos.com]
>Sent: 30 May 2002 13:04
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: Re: slow
>
>
> 
>>I don't know about the rest of you fine people, but I went ahead and
>ordered 
>>both books off Amazon.uk. Its going to cost you about $70.00 American, but
>I 
>>believe its well worth it. Its been so long since I have read a NEW Feist 
>>book that I think im getting the shakes.
>>
>>PV2 Van Tongeren, Ft. Detrick MD.
>>
>
>
>Yeah, yesterday I suddenly recalled that MiL wouldn't be available here in
>Canada, so I passed the order to Amazon.uk right away! 
>
>:-)
>
>Will wait for Talon to hit the stores though.
>
>PJ
>
>
>________________________________________________________
>Outgrown your current e-mail service?
>Get a 25MB Inbox, POP3 Access, No Ads and No Taglines with LYCOS MAIL PLUS.
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*** EOOH ***
From: paul.whitby@oxoid.com
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: RE: slow
Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 21:31:07 +0100
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Release date is 5th of June.
 
Although the 5th is a Wednesday, the 3rd and 4th are Bank (or National)
holidays for the Golden Jubilee celebrations for the Queen.
 
Regards
 
Paul

-----Original Message-----
>From: Smoking88@aol.com [mailto:Smoking88@aol.com]
>Sent: 30 May 2002 16:18
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: Re: slow
>
>
>is MiL already out in England?  if not when?  just curious, cause i have a
>friend there right now. thanks 
>joe 
>


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*** EOOH ***
From: "A Irving" <s355156@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <feistfans-l@cornell.edu>
Subject: Australian release date
Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 08:26:00 +1000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I know Australia normally gets the releases the same time as the UK, but
is there an official UK release date? I ask this as the three stores I
have asked have no idea what date it is getting delivered, they just
know that it's being released in the UK on the 5th.
Thanks.

Aaron Irving
--------------------------------------------
Microbiology Honours Student -
Centre for Immunology and Cancer Research,
University of Queensland,
Princess Alexandra Hospital.
EMAIL: s355156@student.uq.edu.au
WEB:   http://www.nightshadow.co.uk 



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From: Smoking88@aol.com
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thanks for the info, i hope she's still in england then.  The only other way 
would be to order it from something like amazon. com correct?  if i can get 
MiL i hope everyone else can too!
joe

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From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
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Subject: Re: Australian release date
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Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 17:14:39 +1000 (GMT+1000)
From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Australian release date
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Any money it'll be in dymocks on the 5th.

> I know Australia normally gets the releases the same time as the UK, but
> is there an official UK release date? I ask this as the three stores I
> have asked have no idea what date it is getting delivered, they just
> know that it's being released in the UK on the 5th.
> Thanks.
>
> Aaron Irving
> --------------------------------------------
> Microbiology Honours Student -
> Centre for Immunology and Cancer Research,
> University of Queensland,
> Princess Alexandra Hospital.
> EMAIL: s355156@student.uq.edu.au
> WEB:   http://www.nightshadow.co.uk
>
>

Thanks
Darragh
================================================
msn: iamtheporkfireman@hotmail.com

"Believe or die - thank you O lord for all those
 options" - Bill Hicks.
================================================



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From: "Alan" <Jherek@bigpond.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Australian release date
Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 17:52:34 +1000
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I purchased my copy today, in St Kilda, Victoria. :) I'd expect it will be
available very shortly. Perfect wet weather
to read a book. 'Tis, a dark and story night.


Alan

--
At the age of nineteen I raised an army out of my own resources and freed
the state from the
tyranny of a faction.
Res Gestae Divi Augustae


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From: "A Gnome" <nightshadow@froggy.com.au>
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Subject: RE: Australian Book Release
Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 18:13:08 +1000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "A Gnome" <nightshadow@froggy.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Australian Book Release
Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 18:13:08 +1000
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So Wednesday the 5th you'll be at dymocks at Indro? :)
This question is mainly for the Australian residents; what is your
favourite bookstore (out of the main chains, not single ones at a
particular location)? Also for REF, I know you don't read much
sci-fi/fantasy, but of the other fictitious novels you read, where do
you purchase these from? Do you ever buy Online?

CIAO,
      Aaron

http://www.hallofworlds.net/kerr/main.php 
http://www.nightshadow.co.uk 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]
> On Behalf Of Darragh Murray
> Sent: Friday, May 31, 2002 5:15 PM
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Subject: Re: Australian release date
> 
> Any money it'll be in dymocks on the 5th.
> 
> > I know Australia normally gets the releases the same time as the UK,

> > but
> > is there an official UK release date? I ask this as the three stores

> > I
> > have asked have no idea what date it is getting delivered, they just

> > know that it's being released in the UK on the 5th. Thanks.
> >
> > Aaron Irving
> > --------------------------------------------
> > Microbiology Honours Student -
> > Centre for Immunology and Cancer Research,
> > University of Queensland,
> > Princess Alexandra Hospital.
> > EMAIL: s355156@student.uq.edu.au
> > WEB:   http://www.nightshadow.co.uk
> >
> >
> 
> Thanks
> Darragh



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From: "Volker Stephens" <volker@bigpond.net.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Australian release date
Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 18:40:04 +1000
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You lose!  I saw, and bought, it today in Dymocks!

Volker.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Darragh Murray" <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Friday, May 31, 2002 5:14 PM
Subject: Re: Australian release date


> Any money it'll be in dymocks on the 5th.
>
> > I know Australia normally gets the releases the same time as the UK, but
> > is there an official UK release date? I ask this as the three stores I
> > have asked have no idea what date it is getting delivered, they just
> > know that it's being released in the UK on the 5th.
> > Thanks.
> >
> > Aaron Irving
> > --------------------------------------------
> > Microbiology Honours Student -
> > Centre for Immunology and Cancer Research,
> > University of Queensland,
> > Princess Alexandra Hospital.
> > EMAIL: s355156@student.uq.edu.au
> > WEB:   http://www.nightshadow.co.uk
> >
> >
>
> Thanks
> Darragh
> ================================================
> msn: iamtheporkfireman@hotmail.com
>
> "Believe or die - thank you O lord for all those
>  options" - Bill Hicks.
> ================================================
>



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Subject: Re: Australian Book Release
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From: "Henrik Grotle" <henrik@arasoft.no>
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Subject: Re: Australian Book Release
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A Gnome wrote:
> particular location)? Also for REF, I know you don't read much
> sci-fi/fantasy, but of the = other fictitious novels you read, where do
> you purchase these from? Do you = ever buy Online?

I would think it is safe to assume he doesn't buy his books from Amazon! <g>

Henrik



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From: Kenneth Jones <killkenny@thos.co.za>
Subject: Re: Australian release date
In-Reply-To: <001901c2087e$c2ab4160$3400a8c0@nsw.bigpond.net.au>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 11:29:50 +0200
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: Kenneth Jones <killkenny@thos.co.za>
Subject: Re: Australian release date
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This SUCKS!!!!!!

MiL will only be arriving her in SA in mid July!!!

At 06:40 PM 5/31/02 +1000, you wrote:
>You lose!  I saw, and bought, it today in Dymocks!
>
>Volker.
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Darragh Murray" <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
>To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
>Sent: Friday, May 31, 2002 5:14 PM
>Subject: Re: Australian release date
>
>
> > Any money it'll be in dymocks on the 5th.
> >
> > > I know Australia normally gets the releases the same time as the UK, but
> > > is there an official UK release date? I ask this as the three stores I
> > > have asked have no idea what date it is getting delivered, they just
> > > know that it's being released in the UK on the 5th.
> > > Thanks.
> > >
> > > Aaron Irving
> > > --------------------------------------------
> > > Microbiology Honours Student -
> > > Centre for Immunology and Cancer Research,
> > > University of Queensland,
> > > Princess Alexandra Hospital.
> > > EMAIL: s355156@student.uq.edu.au
> > > WEB:   http://www.nightshadow.co.uk
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Thanks
> > Darragh
> > ================================================
> > msn: iamtheporkfireman@hotmail.com
> >
> > "Believe or die - thank you O lord for all those
> >  options" - Bill Hicks.
> > ================================================
> >



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 07:03:06 -0700
Subject: Re: Australian Book Release
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On Friday, May 31, 2002, at 01:13 AM, A Gnome wrote:

> So Wednesday the 5th you'll be at dymocks at Indro? :)
> This question is mainly for the Australian residents; what is your =
> favourite bookstore (out of the main chains, not single ones at a
> particular location)? Also for REF, I know you don't read much
> sci-fi/fantasy, but of the = other fictitious novels you read, where do
> you purchase these from? Do you = ever buy Online?
>

I've bought from B&N online and Amazon.  Mostly, I like to wander 
through bookstores.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 07:03:55 -0700
Subject: Re: Australian Book Release
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On Friday, May 31, 2002, at 02:18 AM, Henrik Grotle wrote:

> A Gnome wrote:
>> particular location)? Also for REF, I know you don't read much
>> sci-fi/fantasy, but of the = other fictitious novels you read, where do
>> you purchase these from? Do you = ever buy Online?
>
> I would think it is safe to assume he doesn't buy his books from 
> Amazon! <g>
>
> Henrik
>
>
>
>

I have, until the recent flap over used for sale instead of new 
started.  Amazon was very useful because of their ability to get things 
to your door fast.

B&N online is just as fast.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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From: "Michael Gibson" <mike@gibbyco.freeserve.co.uk>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Australian Book Release
Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 20:50:41 +0100
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*** EOOH ***
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: "Michael Gibson" <mike@gibbyco.freeserve.co.uk>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Australian Book Release
Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 20:50:41 +0100
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

> > A Gnome wrote:
> >> particular location)? Also for REF, I know you don't read much
> >> sci-fi/fantasy, but of the = other fictitious novels you read, where do
> >> you purchase these from? Do you = ever buy Online?
> >
> > I would think it is safe to assume he doesn't buy his books from
> > Amazon! <g>
> >
> > Henrik
> >
> >
>
> I have, until the recent flap over used for sale instead of new
> started.  Amazon was very useful because of their ability to get things
> to your door fast.
>
> B&N online is just as fast.
>
> Best, R.E.F.

One thing I don't get is Amazon sticky the "buy used" on newly released items -
such items are often heavily reduced, and I've seen a number of new items that
were within 5% of the price of the used items.

Am I right in thinking that Amazon gets a cut of any such second hand exchange
that goes through their hands?  If so that is rank.

On a (vaguely) similar note, do libraries have to pay more for the books, as
they intend to loan out books?

Mike,
Gibfish of the West.

"People are born innocent, but this usually doesn't last long."



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From: Sean Fister <sean@hope.kih.net>
Subject: RE: Australian Book Release
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 17:16:12 -0400
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: Sean Fister <sean@hope.kih.net>
Subject: RE: Australian Book Release
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

At 03:50 PM 5/31/02, you wrote:

Yes, Amazon charges a nominal fee for listing, fees for additional 
promotion, and they get a percentage of the selling price.

Sean Fister

> > > A Gnome wrote:
> > >> particular location)? Also for REF, I know you don't read much
> > >> sci-fi/fantasy, but of the = other fictitious novels you read, where do
> > >> you purchase these from? Do you = ever buy Online?
> > >
> > > I would think it is safe to assume he doesn't buy his books from
> > > Amazon! <g>
> > >
> > > Henrik
> > >
> > >
> >
> > I have, until the recent flap over used for sale instead of new
> > started.  Amazon was very useful because of their ability to get things
> > to your door fast.
> >
> > B&N online is just as fast.
> >
> > Best, R.E.F.
>
>One thing I don't get is Amazon sticky the "buy used" on newly released 
>items -
>such items are often heavily reduced, and I've seen a number of new items that
>were within 5% of the price of the used items.
>
>Am I right in thinking that Amazon gets a cut of any such second hand exchange
>that goes through their hands?  If so that is rank.
>
>On a (vaguely) similar note, do libraries have to pay more for the books, as
>they intend to loan out books?
>
>Mike,
>Gibfish of the West.
>
>"People are born innocent, but this usually doesn't last long."



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Subject: Re: Australian Book Release
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 13:35:29 -0700
Subject: Re: Australian Book Release
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On Friday, May 31, 2002, at 12:50 PM, Michael Gibson wrote:

>>> A Gnome wrote:
>>>> particular location)? Also for REF, I know you don't read much
>>>> sci-fi/fantasy, but of the = other fictitious novels you read, where 
>>>> do
>>>> you purchase these from? Do you = ever buy Online?
>>>
>>> I would think it is safe to assume he doesn't buy his books from
>>> Amazon! <g>
>>>
>>> Henrik
>>>
>>>
>>
>> I have, until the recent flap over used for sale instead of new
>> started.  Amazon was very useful because of their ability to get things
>> to your door fast.
>>
>> B&N online is just as fast.
>>
>> Best, R.E.F.
>
> One thing I don't get is Amazon sticky the "buy used" on newly released 
> items -
> such items are often heavily reduced, and I've seen a number of new 
> items that
> were within 5% of the price of the used items.
>
> Am I right in thinking that Amazon gets a cut of any such second hand 
> exchange
> that goes through their hands?  If so that is rank.

Amazon acts as a broker, so they get a commission even though it's not 
an item in their inventory.

>
> On a (vaguely) similar note, do libraries have to pay more for the 
> books, as
> they intend to loan out books?
>
No.  They pay the same as bookstores, about 40% off cover.  I get paid 
for each book sold, not on how many people read it, so I have beef with 
lending libraries.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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what book is this that is coming out soon???

Luke:)

>From: "Alan" <Jherek@bigpond.com>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
>Subject: Re: Australian release date
>Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 17:52:34 +1000
>
>I purchased my copy today, in St Kilda, Victoria. :) I'd expect it will be
>available very shortly. Perfect wet weather
>to read a book. 'Tis, a dark and story night.
>
>
>Alan
>
>--
>At the age of nineteen I raised an army out of my own resources and freed
>the state from the
>tyranny of a faction.
>Res Gestae Divi Augustae
>
>
>---
>Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
>Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
>Version: 6.0.365 / Virus Database: 202 - Release Date: 24/05/2002






_________________________________________________________________
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Subject: Re: Australian release date
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Alan" <Jherek@bigpond.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Australian release date
Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2002 12:10:47 +1000
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Murder in La Mut. ;)

Good book by the way, congratulations to Ray and Joel


Alan

Whilst taking tea with a sociable bunyip a kangaroo bounded by with the
following message.
----- Original Message -----
>From: "Luke Vinen" <lukevinen18@hotmail.com>
>To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
>Sent: Saturday, June 01, 2002 11:48 AM
>Subject: Re: Australian release date
>
>
>
>what book is this that is coming out soon???
>
>Luke:)
>
>>From: "Alan" <Jherek@bigpond.com>
>>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>>To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
>>Subject: Re: Australian release date
>>Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 17:52:34 +1000
>>
>>I purchased my copy today, in St Kilda, Victoria. :) I'd expect it will be
>>available very shortly. Perfect wet weather
>>to read a book. 'Tis, a dark and story night.
>>
>>
>>Alan
>>
>>--
>>At the age of nineteen I raised an army out of my own resources and freed
>>the state from the
>>tyranny of a faction.
>>Res Gestae Divi Augustae
>>
>>
>>---
>>Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
>>Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
>>Version: 6.0.365 / Virus Database: 202 - Release Date: 24/05/2002
>
>
>
>
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Join the world's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
>http://www.hotmail.com
>


---
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Cameron Duncan" <cduncan@atinera.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Australian release date
Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2002 12:19:12 +1000
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Murder in LaMut.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Luke Vinen
> Sent: Saturday, June 01, 2002 11:48 AM
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Subject: Re: Australian release date
>
>
>
> what book is this that is coming out soon???
>
> Luke:)
>
> >From: "Alan" <Jherek@bigpond.com>
> >Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> >To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> >Subject: Re: Australian release date
> >Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 17:52:34 +1000
> >
> >I purchased my copy today, in St Kilda, Victoria. :) I'd expect
> it will be
> >available very shortly. Perfect wet weather
> >to read a book. 'Tis, a dark and story night.
> >
> >
> >Alan
> >
> >--
> >At the age of nineteen I raised an army out of my own resources and freed
> >the state from the
> >tyranny of a faction.
> >Res Gestae Divi Augustae
> >
> >
> >---
> >Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> >Version: 6.0.365 / Virus Database: 202 - Release Date: 24/05/2002
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
> http://www.hotmail.com
>
>



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Subject: New releases/Tales of the riftwar
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Cameron Gurr" <gurrc@brightontown.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: New releases/Tales of the riftwar
Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2002 10:48:53 +0800
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I've been out of the loop for a while, so can someone explain to me the idea
behind the Tales of the Riftwar. Are they actual collaborations as in the
Empire series, or are they an idea submitted by the co-author, written by
Ray, or the other way around.

Also, I keep seeing references to "Talon". I don't know what this refers to.

Feel free to direct me to the FAQ.

Ta

Cameron.



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Hi Ray,

I think I read recently that your priority for continuing to write
is to pay your bills (paraphrasing). Would you still continue to
write (commercially) if you thought you had reached a level of
financial security?

Regards
Chris

Never strive to equal your betters - they aren't.



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From: "Wouter Durnez" <arutha_of_krondor@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re: Australian Book Release
Date: Sat, 01 Jun 2002 08:57:25 +0000
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Mr.. Feist, don't you think libraries are the best way to make sure people 
get to know your work? I got Magician from the library, so that's how I got 
to know your style. And since I liked it very much, I bought (practically) 
the whole series. Something that I wouldn't have done if there was no such 
thing as a library.


>From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: Re: Australian Book Release
>Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 13:35:29 -0700
>
>
>On Friday, May 31, 2002, at 12:50 PM, Michael Gibson wrote:
>
>>>>A Gnome wrote:
>>>>>particular location)? Also for REF, I know you don't read much
>>>>>sci-fi/fantasy, but of the = other fictitious novels you read, where
>>>>>do
>>>>>you purchase these from? Do you = ever buy Online?
>>>>
>>>>I would think it is safe to assume he doesn't buy his books from
>>>>Amazon! <g>
>>>>
>>>>Henrik
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>I have, until the recent flap over used for sale instead of new
>>>started.  Amazon was very useful because of their ability to get things
>>>to your door fast.
>>>
>>>B&N online is just as fast.
>>>
>>>Best, R.E.F.
>>
>>One thing I don't get is Amazon sticky the "buy used" on newly released
>>items -
>>such items are often heavily reduced, and I've seen a number of new
>>items that
>>were within 5% of the price of the used items.
>>
>>Am I right in thinking that Amazon gets a cut of any such second hand
>>exchange
>>that goes through their hands?  If so that is rank.
>
>Amazon acts as a broker, so they get a commission even though it's not
>an item in their inventory.
>
>>
>>On a (vaguely) similar note, do libraries have to pay more for the
>>books, as
>>they intend to loan out books?
>>
>No.  They pay the same as bookstores, about 40% off cover.  I get paid
>for each book sold, not on how many people read it, so I have beef with
>lending libraries.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
>stupidity.
>




_________________________________________________________________
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From: "Wouter Durnez" <arutha_of_krondor@hotmail.com>
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I've started to write a book of my own (so far two pages :)), and I'd like a 
DUTCH-speaking list member to comment what I already have. If he doesn't 
like it, then there's no use in continuing writing.

If anyone is interested, contact me OFF-LIST.

I hope I don't get flamed for using this list for anything other then 
Feist-talk :)

Thanks,
Wouter

_________________________________________________________________
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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: Anestis Kozakis <kenosti@labyrinth.net.au>
Subject: Re: My own book
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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>I've started to write a book of my own (so far two pages :)), and 
>I'd like a DUTCH-speaking list member to comment what I already 
>have. If he doesn't like it, then there's no use in continuing 
>writing.

So, you're going to base your whole future writing (or non-writing) 
career based on one person's opinion?

If that person likes your two pages, you'll continue writing, and if 
not, you'll give up writing?

Writing takes practice, and it doesn't matter what other people think 
of your writing, as long as you like it.

I write songs and poems, and no matter what other people say, whether 
they do or don't like them, I am proud of what I write, always.

And each time I write something new, it's better than my previous 
stuff, because I'm always learning.

So write, re-read, re-write, edit, and continue, utnil you're happy 
with what you have, and no one else.

And if someone else thinks it's good, then someone may just offer to 
publish it.

[snip]

>Thanks,
>Wouter

Anestis.
-- 
kenosti@labyrinth.net.au
"A complete list of this film's associate producers
  is available upon request."
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From: "Wouter Durnez" <arutha_of_krondor@hotmail.com>
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He'd better continue, damned! :)


>From: "Milamber" <milamber_aka_pug@hotmail.com>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
>Subject: Rays reasons for writing
>Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2002 08:15:15 +0100 (GMT Daylight Time)
>
>Hi Ray,
>
>I think I read recently that your priority for continuing to write
>is to pay your bills (paraphrasing). Would you still continue to
>write (commercially) if you thought you had reached a level of
>financial security?
>
>Regards
>Chris
>
>Never strive to equal your betters - they aren't.




_________________________________________________________________
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Wouter,

I use an email workshop to get people to critique my work. I believe there
are plenty around, but the one I use is www.critters.org

Critters generally focuses on short stories, but you can submit whole novels
in peices.

Also, just becasue one person doesn't like your work, it does not mean
there's no use continueing.

Cameron.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Wouter Durnez" <arutha_of_krondor@hotmail.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Saturday, June 01, 2002 5:00 PM
Subject: My own book


> I've started to write a book of my own (so far two pages :)), and I'd like a
> DUTCH-speaking list member to comment what I already have. If he doesn't
> like it, then there's no use in continuing writing.
>
> If anyone is interested, contact me OFF-LIST.
>
> I hope I don't get flamed for using this list for anything other then
> Feist-talk :)
>
> Thanks,
> Wouter
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Join the world's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
> http://www.hotmail.com
>
>



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From: "Wouter Durnez" <arutha_of_krondor@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: My own book - Workshops
Date: Sat, 01 Jun 2002 12:07:38 +0000
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*** EOOH ***
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From: "Wouter Durnez" <arutha_of_krondor@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: My own book - Workshops
Date: Sat, 01 Jun 2002 12:07:38 +0000
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Okay, thanks, but I write in Dutch, since my English lacks style :)
Another thing, don't you think people that don't write in English find it 
more difficult to get known?


>From: "Cameron Gurr" <gurrc@brightontown.com.au>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
>Subject: Re: My own book - Workshops
>Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2002 19:41:53 +0800
>
>Wouter,
>
>I use an email workshop to get people to critique my work. I believe there
>are plenty around, but the one I use is www.critters.org
>
>Critters generally focuses on short stories, but you can submit whole 
>novels
>in peices.
>
>Also, just becasue one person doesn't like your work, it does not mean
>there's no use continueing.
>
>Cameron.
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Wouter Durnez" <arutha_of_krondor@hotmail.com>
>To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
>Sent: Saturday, June 01, 2002 5:00 PM
>Subject: My own book
>
>
> > I've started to write a book of my own (so far two pages :)), and I'd 
>like
>a
> > DUTCH-speaking list member to comment what I already have. If he doesn't
> > like it, then there's no use in continuing writing.
> >
> > If anyone is interested, contact me OFF-LIST.
> >
> > I hope I don't get flamed for using this list for anything other then
> > Feist-talk :)
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Wouter
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Join the world's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
> > http://www.hotmail.com
> >
> >
>




_________________________________________________________________
Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
http://www.hotmail.com



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From: "Wouter Durnez" <arutha_of_krondor@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: My own book
Date: Sat, 01 Jun 2002 12:05:56 +0000
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From: "Wouter Durnez" <arutha_of_krondor@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: My own book
Date: Sat, 01 Jun 2002 12:05:56 +0000
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Okay, got the picture. But please don't all start giving me lectures, all I 
want is a second opinion.


>From: Anestis Kozakis <kenosti@labyrinth.net.au>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: Re: My own book
>Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2002 20:11:04 +1000
>
>>I've started to write a book of my own (so far two pages :)), and
>>I'd like a DUTCH-speaking list member to comment what I already
>>have. If he doesn't like it, then there's no use in continuing
>>writing.
>
>So, you're going to base your whole future writing (or non-writing)
>career based on one person's opinion?
>
>If that person likes your two pages, you'll continue writing, and if
>not, you'll give up writing?
>
>Writing takes practice, and it doesn't matter what other people think
>of your writing, as long as you like it.
>
>I write songs and poems, and no matter what other people say, whether
>they do or don't like them, I am proud of what I write, always.
>
>And each time I write something new, it's better than my previous
>stuff, because I'm always learning.
>
>So write, re-read, re-write, edit, and continue, utnil you're happy
>with what you have, and no one else.
>
>And if someone else thinks it's good, then someone may just offer to
>publish it.
>
>[snip]
>
>>Thanks,
>>Wouter
>
>Anestis.
>--
>kenosti@labyrinth.net.au
>"A complete list of this film's associate producers
>  is available upon request."
>    -- In End Credits for "State and Main"
>




_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.



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Subject: RE: My own book
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From: "Joel Rosenberg" <joelr@ellegon.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: My own book
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Wouter Durnez
> Sent: Saturday, June 01, 2002 4:01 AM
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Subject: My own book
>
>
> I've started to write a book of my own (so far two pages :)), and
> I'd like a
> DUTCH-speaking list member to comment what I already have. If he doesn't
> like it, then there's no use in continuing writing.
>
> If anyone is interested, contact me OFF-LIST.
>
> I hope I don't get flamed for using this list for anything other then
> Feist-talk :)
>
> Thanks,
> Wouter
>

The latter is unlikely -- but not quite as unlikely as being able to finish
a book if all it would take to stop you is one person not liking the first
two pages of the first book you've every written.  If that's all it would
take to discourage you, you should reconsider your use of the time.



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Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2002 05:49:11 -0700
Subject: Re: Rays reasons for writing
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Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2002 05:49:11 -0700
Subject: Re: Rays reasons for writing
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On Saturday, June 1, 2002, at 12:15 AM, Milamber wrote:

> Hi Ray,
>
> I think I read recently that your priority for continuing to write
> is to pay your bills (paraphrasing). Would you still continue to
> write (commercially) if you thought you had reached a level of
> financial security?
>
> Regards
> Chris
>

Probably.  Unless I suddenly developed a major itch to do something 
else, like follow a band around, or grow grapes and make wine, or 
something else I can't imagine right now.  I just won't work at it the 
way I do now.  I'd work "on spec," i.e. write whatever I bloody well 
want and then find a publisher, and not worry so much about the market 
forces at play today.  You can't work in the business today and not take 
that into account.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2002 05:50:44 -0700
Subject: Re: Australian Book Release
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From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On Saturday, June 1, 2002, at 01:57 AM, Wouter Durnez wrote:

> Mr.. Feist, don't you think libraries are the best way to make sure 
> people get to know your work? I got Magician from the library, so 
> that's how I got to know your style. And since I liked it very much, I 
> bought (practically) the whole series. Something that I wouldn't have 
> done if there was no such thing as a library.
>

No.  They are a place, like other places.  I don't care if you borrow 
the book from a library, from a friend, get it in a used store, etc.  
Most people don't borrow books from libraries.  Then again, most people 
don't read novels.

As I said up thread, I have no beef with libraries.  They pay for the 
books they lend.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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From: "M Chaloner" <markchaloner@btinternet.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Australian Book Release
Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2002 14:39:56 -0700
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<snip>
>Most people don't borrow books from libraries.  Then again, most people 
>don't read novels.
<snip>
>Best, R.E.F.


That's a pretty broad statement isn't it?
If it wasn't for my local library, I'd never have enjoyed my childhood
to the little extent that I did. I probably wouldn't read as I do now,
if it wasn't for the way I read as a kid. My reading's progressed, but I
doubt I'd be someone who read as much as I do now, if it wasn't for my
local library. Sure, I don't use the local library now, but that's not
to say I'll never ever use another library at some other time, depending
on where I am in the world. And remember, ome people just can't afford
to buy books and libraries perform a necessary and sometimes essential
service.

Mark ;-)



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> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of M Chaloner
> Sent: Saturday, June 01, 2002 4:40 PM
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Subject: RE: Australian Book Release
>
>
> <snip>
> Most people don't borrow books from libraries.  Then again, most people
> don't read novels.
> <snip>
> Best, R.E.F.
>
>
> That's a pretty broad statement isn't it?

Sure, but it's factually correct, just as it would be factually correct to
say, "most people don't own Hondas."



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>
> I'd work "on spec," i.e. write whatever I bloody well
>want and then find a publisher, and not worry so much about the market
>forces at play today. You can't work in the business today and not take
>that into account.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
>stupidity.
>

Really? Are the "market forces" more problematic today than when you began
writing 
commercially? If so how? 
Regards you writing whatever you "bloody well want" does that comment mean
you don't WANT to write the books you are writing, but do so out of
neccessity? 
Also I would have thought a writer of your stature COULD write whatever you
want and still 
get it published? 
Regards
Chris
Don't strive to equal your betters - their not!

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>.
>
>As I said up thread, I have no beef with libraries. They pay for the 
>books they lend.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>----

In England libraries take in books other people donate and in this
instance do not pay for the books they lend.
For instance I could donate all my Feist books and anyone could
then borrow them and you would not recieve a penny (cent).
However libraries are a great place to see if you like a writers works
before
buying the books. This is how I found Rays work (amongst others).
Its a good case of "try before you buy"!
Regards
Chris 
Don't strive to equal your betters - their not!

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On Saturday, June 1, 2002, at 02:39 PM, M Chaloner wrote:

> <snip>
> Most people don't borrow books from libraries.  Then again, most people
> don't read novels.
> <snip>
> Best, R.E.F.
>
>
> That's a pretty broad statement isn't it?

It's both broad and true.  What's not true is for any of us to 
generalize out from our own experience.  You and I may have been library 
denizens as kids, but we were in the minority.

> If it wasn't for my local library, I'd never have enjoyed my childhood
> to the little extent that I did. I probably wouldn't read as I do now,
> if it wasn't for the way I read as a kid. My reading's progressed, but I
> doubt I'd be someone who read as much as I do now, if it wasn't for my
> local library. Sure, I don't use the local library now, but that's not
> to say I'll never ever use another library at some other time, depending
> on where I am in the world. And remember, ome people just can't afford
> to buy books and libraries perform a necessary and sometimes essential
> service.
>

"Remember?"

What is the problem?  Why do people seem to think I'm somehow dissing 
libraries?  I've said twice before in this thread I have no beef with 
libarries.  They pay for the books and I get my royalties.

Look, even if you use Harry Potter as a benchmark, which was the most 
successful single day sale in history, over three million, there are 255 
million Americans who have never read Harry Potter.

It's a scale thing.

Most Americans don't read novels.  If they did, I'd make John Grisham 
money, John Grisham would make J.K. Rowlings money, and J.K. Rowlings 
would make Bill Gates money.

A majority of Americans (and it's a thin majority, in the 55% range) 
read something, magazines, jouranls, newspapers, TV Guide, something.  
But 45% of Amercans don't regularly read anything.

That's a simple fact of publishing.

Best, R.E.F.

----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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From: "Wouter Durnez" <arutha_of_krondor@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: RE: My own book
Date: Sat, 01 Jun 2002 15:24:14 +0000
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yes, i know, but that was not what i meant. if i'd truly 'stink', then why 
bother? one can improve, but not that much, right? pls stop this topic, 
anyone (dutch) interested, pls contact me offlist.
thank you :)


>From: "Joel Rosenberg" <joelr@ellegon.com>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
>Subject: RE: My own book
>Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2002 07:45:07 -0500
>
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Wouter Durnez
> > Sent: Saturday, June 01, 2002 4:01 AM
> > To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > Subject: My own book
> >
> >
> > I've started to write a book of my own (so far two pages :)), and
> > I'd like a
> > DUTCH-speaking list member to comment what I already have. If he doesn't
> > like it, then there's no use in continuing writing.
> >
> > If anyone is interested, contact me OFF-LIST.
> >
> > I hope I don't get flamed for using this list for anything other then
> > Feist-talk :)
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Wouter
> >
>
>The latter is unlikely -- but not quite as unlikely as being able to finish
>a book if all it would take to stop you is one person not liking the first
>two pages of the first book you've every written.  If that's all it would
>take to discourage you, you should reconsider your use of the time.




_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com



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On Sat, Jun 01, 2002 at 08:29:20AM -0700, Raymond Feist wrote:
> 
> "Remember?"
> 
> What is the problem?  Why do people seem to think I'm somehow dissing 
> libraries?  I've said twice before in this thread I have no beef with 
> libarries.  They pay for the books and I get my royalties.

Actually what you wrote in an earlier message was:

  No.  They pay the same as bookstores, about 40% off cover.  I get paid
  for each book sold, not on how many people read it, so I have beef with
  lending libraries.

Notice that there wasn't any 'no' in front of 'beef'.
I assume that was just a typo, but it can explain why some people
think you have a problem with libraries.


-- 
<Insert your favourite quote here.>
Erik Trulsson
ertr1013@student.uu.se



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2002 08:57:03 -0700
Subject: Re: Australian Book Release
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On Saturday, June 1, 2002, at 07:22 AM, Milamber wrote:

> As I said up thread, I have no beef with libraries. They pay for the
> books they lend.
>
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
>
> In England libraries take in books other people donate and in this
> instance do not pay for the books they lend.
> For instance I could donate all my Feist books and anyone could
> then borrow them and you would not recieve a penny (cent).

I got paid when you bought it.  Is there a reason that's not obvious?

>
Chris,  BTW, your e-mail doesn't quote.  I had to do it manually, for 
some reason.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.

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Raymond Feist wrote:

> 
> A majority of Americans (and it's a thin majority, in the 55% range) 
> read something, magazines, jouranls, newspapers, TV Guide, something.  
> But 45% of Amercans don't regularly read anything.
> 
> That's a simple fact of publishing.


I read somewhere that the average American household has six books.  If 
you include people like me (some 16,000 books) and my friend M'e (around 
115,000 books) in the curve, it makes that very depressing.

Of course, it may be even more depressing that much of the reading 
that's done is stuff like "People" magazine and Barbara Cartland novels...

cd
-- 
Death to all Absolutists!



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Raymond Feist wrote:

[snip]
> 
> "Remember?"
> 
> What is the problem?  Why do people seem to think I'm somehow dissing 
> libraries?  I've said twice before in this thread I have no beef with 
> libarries.  They pay for the books and I get my royalties.
> 


   Here is the problem Ray. Closer scrutiny will show you missed the 
"no" in your sentence. An easy goof, but one that's certain to cause a 
certain level of consternation :)

 From further up-thread:

>> 
>> On a (vaguely) similar note, do libraries have to pay more for the books, as
>> they intend to loan out books?
> 
> No.  They pay the same as bookstores, about 40% off cover.  I get paid for

 > each book sold, not on how many people read it, so I have beef with
 > lending libraries.

Bret



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Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2002 09:00:41 -0700
Subject: Re: Rays reasons for writing
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2002 09:00:41 -0700
Subject: Re: Rays reasons for writing
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
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On Saturday, June 1, 2002, at 07:11 AM, Milamber wrote:

> >
> > I'd work "on spec," i.e. write whatever I bloody well
> want and then find a publisher, and not worry so much about the market
> forces at play today. You can't work in the business today and not take
> that into account.
>
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
>
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
> stupidity.
> >
>  
>
> Really? Are the "market forces" more problematic today than when you 
> began writing
> commercially? If so how? 

It's too esoteric for the general public.  Let's say right now the 
market is very different than it was 22 years ago when I broke in.  For 
one thing, Magician sold about 34% of initial sales through independent 
booksellers.  I'm down to about 13% now.  Many chains that used to 
compete have merged, been bought out.  That's just two examples.

> Regards you writing whatever you "bloody well want" does that comment 
> mean
> you don't WANT to write the books you are writing, but do so out of 
> neccessity?

I write what I want within the fantasy genre.  I would like to do some 
other stuff, but until I'm financially independent, I have to write what 
pays the bills.

> Also I would have thought a writer of your stature COULD write whatever 
> you want and still
> get it published?
>

In that regard you would be wrong.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.

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From: "Andy Holcombe" <andy_wan_kenobi@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Text Quoting
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From: "Andy Holcombe" <andy_wan_kenobi@hotmail.com>
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>From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>

>Chris,  BTW, your e-mail doesn't quote.  I had to do it manually, for some 
>reason.

It's because the body of his messages is a text attachment

Andy Holcombe
Andy_wan_Kenobi@hotmail.com

"To err is human, but to really foul things up requires a computer."
     -Farmers' Almanac 1978

"I don't give a damn for a man who can only spell a word one way."
     -Mark Twain

"History will be kind to me, for I intend to write it."
     -Winston Churchill

_________________________________________________________________
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Date: Sat, 01 Jun 2002 10:34:41 -0600
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: My own book
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Wouter Durnez wrote:
> 
> yes, i know, but that was not what i meant. if i'd truly 'stink', then why
> bother? one can improve, but not that much, right? pls stop this topic,
> anyone (dutch) interested, pls contact me offlist.

Imo, anybody has the potential for unlimited improvement in their
writing skills & technique.
It's just a matter of putting the time and effort into it.

Craig J. Ries



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From: "Wouter Durnez" <arutha_of_krondor@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: My own book
Date: Sat, 01 Jun 2002 17:26:17 +0000
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From: "Wouter Durnez" <arutha_of_krondor@hotmail.com>
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Date: Sat, 01 Jun 2002 17:26:17 +0000
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But some will have to put much more effort in it then others, right? And 
since magic doesn't exist (Nakor), bread doesn't appear on the table all by 
itself.


>From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: Re: My own book
>Date: Sat, 01 Jun 2002 10:34:41 -0600
>
>Wouter Durnez wrote:
> >
> > yes, i know, but that was not what i meant. if i'd truly 'stink', then 
>why
> > bother? one can improve, but not that much, right? pls stop this topic,
> > anyone (dutch) interested, pls contact me offlist.
>
>Imo, anybody has the potential for unlimited improvement in their
>writing skills & technique.
>It's just a matter of putting the time and effort into it.
>
>Craig J. Ries




_________________________________________________________________
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*** EOOH ***
From: DuncanMacLeod89@aol.com
Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2002 13:40:45 EDT
Subject: Re: My own book
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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In a message dated 6/1/2002 2:08:48 AM Pacific Standard Time, 
arutha_of_krondor@hotmail.com writes:


> I've started to write a book of my own (so far two pages :)), and I'd like a 
> 
> DUTCH-speaking list member to comment what I already have. If he doesn't 
> like it, then there's no use in continuing writing.
> 
> If anyone is interested, contact me OFF-LIST.
> 
> I hope I don't get flamed for using this list for anything other then 
> Feist-talk :)
> 
> Thanks,
> Wouter
> 

     Hey, uh thats kind of sad that you would give up because one person 
doesn't like it. If your going to write a book , write a hell of alot more 
then two pages. Two pages probably can't get the reader a good view of what 
it would be about. Just my opinion. Good luck though. If some one doesn't 
like it, don't give up. Keep going.
-Chance
"We who are truly brave, will never live in fear."-The Rock

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From: "Michael Gibson" <mike@gibbyco.freeserve.co.uk>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Australian Book Release
Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2002 21:22:57 +0100
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From: "Michael Gibson" <mike@gibbyco.freeserve.co.uk>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Australian Book Release
Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2002 21:22:57 +0100
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> <snip>
> Most people don't borrow books from libraries.  Then again, most people
> don't read novels.
> <snip>
> Best, R.E.F.
>
>
> That's a pretty broad statement isn't it?
> If it wasn't for my local library, I'd never have enjoyed my childhood
> to the little extent that I did. I probably wouldn't read as I do now,
> if it wasn't for the way I read as a kid. My reading's progressed, but I
> doubt I'd be someone who read as much as I do now, if it wasn't for my
> local library. Sure, I don't use the local library now, but that's not
> to say I'll never ever use another library at some other time, depending
> on where I am in the world. And remember, ome people just can't afford
> to buy books and libraries perform a necessary and sometimes essential
> service.
>
> Mark ;-)

A question for those around the world - how do libraries compare?  Here in the
UK, everyone can be a member of a local library for free - is this the case
elsewhere as well?

Mike,
Gibfish of the West

"Better to light a candle than to curse the darkness."
Confucius



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From: "Joel Rosenberg" <joelr@ellegon.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Australian Book Release
Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2002 15:38:02 -0500
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It's certainly true in the US; the free public library was invented by
Benjamin Franklin.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Michael Gibson
> Sent: Saturday, June 01, 2002 3:23 PM
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Subject: RE: Australian Book Release
>
>
> > <snip>
> > Most people don't borrow books from libraries.  Then again, most people
> > don't read novels.
> > <snip>
> > Best, R.E.F.
> >
> >
> > That's a pretty broad statement isn't it?
> > If it wasn't for my local library, I'd never have enjoyed my childhood
> > to the little extent that I did. I probably wouldn't read as I do now,
> > if it wasn't for the way I read as a kid. My reading's progressed, but I
> > doubt I'd be someone who read as much as I do now, if it wasn't for my
> > local library. Sure, I don't use the local library now, but that's not
> > to say I'll never ever use another library at some other time, depending
> > on where I am in the world. And remember, ome people just can't afford
> > to buy books and libraries perform a necessary and sometimes essential
> > service.
> >
> > Mark ;-)
>
> A question for those around the world - how do libraries compare?
>  Here in the
> UK, everyone can be a member of a local library for free - is
> this the case
> elsewhere as well?
>
> Mike,
> Gibfish of the West
>
> "Better to light a candle than to curse the darkness."
> Confucius
>
>



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sat, 01 Jun 2002 14:38:31 -0600
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Australian Book Release
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Michael Gibson wrote:
> 
> A question for those around the world - how do libraries compare?  Here in the
> UK, everyone can be a member of a local library for free - is this the case
> elsewhere as well?

Here in the States, atleast at the libraries I've seen, it is a small
fee to join, but in some states (if not all) you get the advantage as
well of the inter-library loan, where the local library can have a book
sent from another library or even colleges/universities from across the
state.

Craig J. Ries



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sat, 01 Jun 2002 14:39:56 -0600
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: My own book
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Wouter Durnez wrote:
> 
> But some will have to put much more effort in it then others, right?

Of course. It's like anything that you want to succeed at: some have
natural talent, others have to work harder at it.
Not everybody is born a basketball player, but not everybody is born a
writer either. Yet, there are those that, if they work at it hard
enough, will succeed regardless of natural talent.

> And since magic doesn't exist (Nakor), bread doesn't appear on the
> table all by itself.

No, and there is something to be said of not quitting your day job while
trying to become a successful writer, too :)

Craig J. Ries



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*** EOOH ***
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From: Joshua Stanton <jasharkalain@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: My own book
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--- "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net> wrote:
> Wouter Durnez wrote:
> > 
> > But some will have to put much more effort in it
> then others, right?
> 
> Of course. It's like anything that you want to
> succeed at: some have
> natural talent, others have to work harder at it.
> Not everybody is born a basketball player, but not
> everybody is born a
> writer either. Yet, there are those that, if they
> work at it hard
> enough, will succeed regardless of natural talent.

I feel the need to add that NO one is born a
basketball player, or writer or whatever.  Everyone
has to work at it; though as it's been said, some have
to work harder than others.

Joshua

> 
> > And since magic doesn't exist (Nakor), bread
> doesn't appear on the
> > table all by itself.
> 
> No, and there is something to be said of not
> quitting your day job while
> trying to become a successful writer, too :)
> 
> Craig J. Ries
> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com



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From: "A Irving" <s355156@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Australian Book Release
Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2002 08:54:46 +1000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "A Irving" <s355156@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Australian Book Release
Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2002 08:54:46 +1000
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I know its true for my state, and I assume all of Australia, but
libraries here are free to join. They fine you for overdue books, and
charge you for getting a book sent from another local library (within
the same city). Libraries here are controlled by local governments
though, so it may not be free for all.

CIAO,
      Aaron

http://www.hallofworlds.net/kerr/main.php 
http://www.nightshadow.co.uk 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]
> On Behalf Of Michael Gibson
> Sent: Sunday, 2 June 2002 6:23 AM
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Subject: RE: Australian Book Release
> 
> > <snip>
> > Most people don't borrow books from libraries.  Then again, most people
> > don't read novels.
> > <snip>
> > Best, R.E.F.
> >
> >
> > That's a pretty broad statement isn't it?
> > If it wasn't for my local library, I'd never have enjoyed my childhood
> > to the little extent that I did. I probably wouldn't read as I do now,
> > if it wasn't for the way I read as a kid. My reading's progressed, but I
> > doubt I'd be someone who read as much as I do now, if it wasn't for my
> > local library. Sure, I don't use the local library now, but that's not
> > to say I'll never ever use another library at some other time, depending
> > on where I am in the world. And remember, ome people just can't afford
> > to buy books and libraries perform a necessary and sometimes essential
> > service.
> >
> > Mark ;-)
> 
> A question for those around the world - how do libraries compare? Here in
> the
> UK, everyone can be a member of a local library for free - is this the
> case
> elsewhere as well?
> 
> Mike,
> Gibfish of the West
> 
> "Better to light a candle than to curse the darkness."
> Confucius



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From: "Cameron Gurr" <gurrc@brightontown.com.au>
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Subject: Re: My own book - Workshops
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From: "Cameron Gurr" <gurrc@brightontown.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: My own book - Workshops
Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2002 08:59:09 +0800
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Without a doubt.

I would then look for a workshop based in holland, or one with a proportion
or dutch writers. Putting you work on a US based workshop, and stating that
english is not your firsat language can be helpful. You'll find you get a
lot of grammatical and stylistic assistance.

This is getting OT though.

Cameron

----- Original Message -----
From: "Wouter Durnez" <arutha_of_krondor@hotmail.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Saturday, June 01, 2002 8:07 PM
Subject: Re: My own book - Workshops


> Okay, thanks, but I write in Dutch, since my English lacks style :)
> Another thing, don't you think people that don't write in English find it
> more difficult to get known?
>
>
> >From: "Cameron Gurr" <gurrc@brightontown.com.au>
> >Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> >To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> >Subject: Re: My own book - Workshops
> >Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2002 19:41:53 +0800
> >
> >Wouter,
> >
> >I use an email workshop to get people to critique my work. I believe there
> >are plenty around, but the one I use is www.critters.org
> >
> >Critters generally focuses on short stories, but you can submit whole
> >novels
> >in peices.
> >
> >Also, just becasue one person doesn't like your work, it does not mean
> >there's no use continueing.
> >
> >Cameron.
> >
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Wouter Durnez" <arutha_of_krondor@hotmail.com>
> >To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> >Sent: Saturday, June 01, 2002 5:00 PM
> >Subject: My own book
> >
> >
> > > I've started to write a book of my own (so far two pages :)), and I'd
> >like
> >a
> > > DUTCH-speaking list member to comment what I already have. If he doesn't
> > > like it, then there's no use in continuing writing.
> > >
> > > If anyone is interested, contact me OFF-LIST.
> > >
> > > I hope I don't get flamed for using this list for anything other then
> > > Feist-talk :)
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Wouter
> > >
> > > _________________________________________________________________
> > > Join the world's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
> > > http://www.hotmail.com
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Join the world's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
> http://www.hotmail.com
>
>



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From: Smoking88@aol.com
Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2002 21:06:15 EDT
Subject: Re: My own book
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just a thought, i personally don't think it matters if anyone else likes what 
you write, only if you like it.  i have written lots, not to try to be 
published, but just becacause i had something to write.  whether it's a 
novel, short story or poetry you have to like it to claim it.  now in order 
to try and sell it, others must like it, but that's different than just 
writing.
joe

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From: "Terri Lyn Layman" <terrilyn@fullnet.com>
To: "FeistList \(E-mail\)" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: OT: Travelling to Austrailia
Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2002 01:33:17 -0500
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From: "Terri Lyn Layman" <terrilyn@fullnet.com>
To: "FeistList \(E-mail\)" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: OT: Travelling to Austrailia
Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2002 01:33:17 -0500
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

First off, this is not anything that can be done shortly... I'm on a
two-three year timetable for this adventure.

However...

I've never travelled outside of the continent (and my one big
"international" vacation was a semi-weekend in Canada and I was staying with
some friends in Buffalo, NY... )

SO....

I know there's like tons of paperwork to be done with travelling overseas
and such, and that there's sometimes a LOT of time involved in this.  I also
realize that Austrailia is about the size of Texas and California combined
at least and very diverse in areas.... so, I'm at a loss as to the
Sydney/Perth/Melbourne choice.

I know that this is WAY in advance, but I'm trying to start planning this
and budgeting/saving for this trip now... so, I'm looking for
advice/0ptions, knowlege of exactly HOW does one travel overseas...

I feel a little dumb.  I swear it's not the blond hair!  I'm just trying to
get a handle on how to go about planning this.  My last vacation was to a
state that I'd lived in, so I already KNEW what to do!  (And yes, I travel
too often for thought sometimes.  I live for vacations and indulge in the
"long weekend" as frequently as possible.  Went to the race last month in
Indy, camping with some friends this month, and off to Louisville for the
4th of july with some other friends... I really need my own plane or
something!)

Anyhow, any help that the travellers or Aussies can give is helpful.

Thanks!
-TerriLyn



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Subject: Re: OT: Travelling to Austrailia
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Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2002 22:25:46 +1000
From: Paul Duthie <pduthie@ncable.net.au>
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Organization: dd Computing
To: Terri Lyn Layman <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: OT: Travelling to Austrailia
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Hello All



Sunday, June 2, 2002, 4:33:17 PM, you wrote:

TLL> First off, this is not anything that can be done shortly... I'm on a
TLL> two-three year timetable for this adventure.

TLL> However...

TLL> I've never travelled outside of the continent (and my one big
TLL> "international" vacation was a semi-weekend in Canada and I was staying with
TLL> some friends in Buffalo, NY... )

TLL> SO....

TLL> I know there's like tons of paperwork to be done with travelling overseas
TLL> and such, and that there's sometimes a LOT of time involved in this.  I also
TLL> realize that Austrailia is about the size of Texas and California combined
TLL> at least and very diverse in areas.... so, I'm at a loss as to the
TLL> Sydney/Perth/Melbourne choice.

Its a little larger that that :)

Perth is around 3000 miles from Sydney, while Melbourne is only 600
miles from Sydney, so East Coast is a good place to start. Alice
Springs/Ayers Rock etc is about halfway across Australia.

Places to see :

Sydney
      Sydney Harbor
      Sydney Harbor Bridge
      Opera House
      Sydney Tower
      Taronga Park Zoo
      Bondi Beach (although there are much better beaches elsewhere)

Melbourne
      Arts Centre
      Rialto Towers
      Melbourne Zoo
      Port Phillip Bay
      MCG
      Exhibition Centre (Imagine a Building about 3/4 mile long one room)

Brisbane (North of Sydney)
      Gold Coast (Surfers Paradise - one of the best beaches in Australia)
      Sunshine Coast
      Seaworld
      Movieworld
      Dreamworld

Just some ideas to get you started and I'm sure others from Down Under
are liable to give you some as well.

TLL> I know that this is WAY in advance, but I'm trying to start planning this
TLL> and budgeting/saving for this trip now... so, I'm looking for
TLL> advice/0ptions, knowlege of exactly HOW does one travel overseas...

TLL> I feel a little dumb.  I swear it's not the blond hair!  I'm just trying to
TLL> get a handle on how to go about planning this.  My last vacation was to a
TLL> state that I'd lived in, so I already KNEW what to do!  (And yes, I travel
TLL> too often for thought sometimes.  I live for vacations and indulge in the
TLL> "long weekend" as frequently as possible.  Went to the race last month in
TLL> Indy, camping with some friends this month, and off to Louisville for the
TLL> 4th of july with some other friends... I really need my own plane or
TLL> something!)

TLL> Anyhow, any help that the travellers or Aussies can give is helpful.

TLL> Thanks!
TLL> -TerriLyn



-- 
Best regards,
 Paul                            mailto:pduthie@ncable.net.au



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From: "Wouter Durnez" <arutha_of_krondor@hotmail.com>
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Just wanna say thank you people, for your encouragement.
(I still haven't found anyone Dutch yet, but what the heck :))
Wouter

_________________________________________________________________
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Subject: Re: OT: Travelling to Austrailia
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Subject: Re: OT: Travelling to Austrailia
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
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On Saturday, June 1, 2002, at 11:33 PM, Terri Lyn Layman wrote:

> First off, this is not anything that can be done shortly... I'm on a
> two-three year timetable for this adventure.
>
> However...
>
> I've never travelled outside of the continent (and my one big
> "international" vacation was a semi-weekend in Canada and I was staying 
> with
> some friends in Buffalo, NY... )
>
> SO....
>
> I know there's like tons of paperwork to be done with travelling 
> overseas
> and such, and that there's sometimes a LOT of time involved in this.  I 
> also
> realize that Austrailia is about the size of Texas and California 
> combined
> at least and very diverse in areas.... so, I'm at a loss as to the
> Sydney/Perth/Melbourne choice.
>
> I know that this is WAY in advance, but I'm trying to start planning 
> this
> and budgeting/saving for this trip now... so, I'm looking for
> advice/0ptions, knowlege of exactly HOW does one travel overseas...
>
> I feel a little dumb.  I swear it's not the blond hair!  I'm just 
> trying to
> get a handle on how to go about planning this.  My last vacation was 
> to a
> state that I'd lived in, so I already KNEW what to do!  (And yes, I 
> travel
> too often for thought sometimes.  I live for vacations and indulge in 
> the
> "long weekend" as frequently as possible.  Went to the race last month 
> in
> Indy, camping with some friends this month, and off to Louisville for 
> the
> 4th of july with some other friends... I really need my own plane or
> something!)
>
> Anyhow, any help that the travellers or Aussies can give is helpful.
>
> Thanks!
> -TerriLyn
>
>
>
>
To start with, it's as big as the US.  Secondly, you'll never see it all 
in one trip unless you're spending months there, so just realize you'll 
probably need a few visits over a lifetime to see the high spots.

Here's the thing, from this Yank's view: Oz is a very urban nation, with 
the majority of people living in cities (most of them on the east coast).

So to start with deciding which cities, look at your own interests.

I love Sydney.  I think it's one of the great cosmopolitan towns in the 
world, up there with London, San Francisco, New York, Toronto, etc. in 
the English speaking world.   You can kill a two week vacation and never 
get out of the city center and suburbs of Sydney.

I love Brisbane, and I enjoy lots of things about Queensland.  It's a 
very different culture from the cockroaches (local slang for those who 
live in New South Wales, who in tern refer to Queenslanders as the "cane 
toads," an extremely obnoxious critter).  In Queensland your off the 
Great Barrier Reef and some of the most spectacular beaches in the 
world.  Great resorts like the Grand Heyman and Turtle Island for 
diving, sailing, etc.

Southern Australia has some of the best wine country in the world.

Western Australia is isolated, but stunning, and Perth and Freemantle 
are worth a visit.

And the list goes on.

My advice is go on-line and check out some of the Oz travel sights and 
start thinking about what interest you and what you'd like to do.

If I wasn't working, it would be a few days in Sydney, pop down to 
Hunters Valley for a wine tour, then up to Queensland for a day or two 
in Brizzy, then off to Jupiter and the beaches.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Subject: Re: OT: Travelling to Austrailia
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: OT: Travelling to Austrailia
Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2002 12:14:02 -0500
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> > I also realize that Austrailia is about the size of Texas and California
> > combined

> To start with, it's as big as the US.  Secondly, you'll never see it all
> in one trip unless you're spending months there, so just realize you'll
> probably need a few visits over a lifetime to see the high spots.

Stupid Triva Time:

Australia
    7,686,850 sq km
    2,966,200 sq miles
U.S. of A.
    9,629,091 sq km
    3,715,673 sq miles
        (continental is about 600,000 sq. miles less)

158,706 sq miles (CA)
266,807 sq miles (TX)

In short, Australia is about as large as the Continental US.



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Subject: Re: OT: Travelling to Austrailia
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*** EOOH ***
From: Gkhd11a@aol.com
Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2002 13:54:20 EDT
Subject: Re: OT: Travelling to Austrailia
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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In a message dated 6/2/02 12:27:13 PM Central Daylight Time, 
jajy@earthlink.net writes:


> > > I also realize that Austrailia is about the size of Texas and
> California
> > > combined
> 
> > To start with, it's as big as the US.  Secondly, you'll never see
> it all
> > in one trip unless you're spending months there, so just realize
> you'll
> > probably need a few visits over a lifetime to see the high spots.
> 
> Stupid Triva Time:
> 
> Australia
>     7,686,850 sq km
>     2,966,200 sq miles
> U.S. of A.
>     9,629,091 sq km
>     3,715,673 sq miles
>         (continental is about 600,000 sq. miles less)
> 
> 158,706 sq miles (CA)
> 266,807 sq miles (TX)
> 
> In short, Australia is about as large as the Continental US.

       Although land wise it is about the size of the US, there is kind of a 
lot of desert out there, and once you see one mile of the desert, you have 
pretty much seen it all.  I might be wrong, but I thought I remeber hearing 
that about 80% of the poplulation live close to the coast.  Saying that it is 
about the same size as the US can be misleading because while Australia has a 
lot to see and do, I'd bet there is 3 or 4 times more to see and do in the 
US.  

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Subject: Re: OT: Travelling to Austrailia
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2002 12:27:01 -0700
Subject: Re: OT: Travelling to Austrailia
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Sunday, June 2, 2002, at 10:54 AM, Gkhd11a@aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 6/2/02 12:27:13 PM Central Daylight Time, 
> jajy@earthlink.net writes:
>
>
> > > I also realize that Austrailia is about the size of Texas and
> California
> > > combined
>
> > To start with, it's as big as the US.  Secondly, you'll never see
> it all
> > in one trip unless you're spending months there, so just realize
> you'll
> > probably need a few visits over a lifetime to see the high spots.
>
> Stupid Triva Time:
>
> Australia
>    7,686,850 sq km
>    2,966,200 sq miles
> U.S. of A.
>    9,629,091 sq km
>    3,715,673 sq miles
>        (continental is about 600,000 sq. miles less)
>
> 158,706 sq miles (CA)
> 266,807 sq miles (TX)
>
> In short, Australia is about as large as the Continental US.
>
>
>
>       Although land wise it is about the size of the US, there is kind 
> of a lot of desert out there, and once you see one mile of the desert, 
> you have pretty much seen it all.  I might be wrong, but I thought I 
> remeber hearing that about 80% of the poplulation live close to the 
> coast.  Saying that it is about the same size as the US can be 
> misleading because while Australia has a lot to see and do, I'd bet 
> there is 3 or 4 times more to see and do in the US.  
>       
>

Of course, because there are about ten times the population (or whatever 
it is), and a lot more geographic diversity in North America.  Last time 
I looked, you didn't have a lot of world-class skiing in Oz.  But you do 
have mountains and woodlands, some great beaches, swamps, etc. in Oz.  
So "more to see and do" is misleading, because you can't see everything 
in California in a single vacation.  Just as you can't see everything in 
New South Wales in a single vacation.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.

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From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: OT: Travelling to Austrailia
Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 03:39:16 +0800
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*** EOOH ***
From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: OT: Travelling to Austrailia
Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 03:39:16 +0800
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Yeah, but we have a big red rock in the middle of our desert - that
makes us special :)
 
Where you go also depends on what time of year you are planning to visit
in. If you want snowfields then there is no point visiting us in the
west as we don't know what snow is, thats something those over east talk
about. Perth has good weather most of the year which is good (just not
for the dams), and some of the beaches on the southern coast are
beautiful with white sand and crystal waters. We also have our fair
share of wineries around the Margaret River area.
 
I'm less qualified to talk about the other states but Melbourne is
traditionally wetter, Queensland sunnier and the home of Steve Irwin,
The Northen Territory Drier (and you get to see Crocs jump out of the
water to eat meat off a stick), Sydney bigger (and it has a monorail),
South Australia has a really big slide (or slippery dip, whatever you
want to call it) ........ Like Ray said, it is a big place and it all
depends on where your interests lie.
 
Dave

-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Gkhd11a@aol.com
>Sent: Monday, 3 June 2002 1:54 AM
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: Re: OT: Travelling to Austrailia
>
>
>In a message dated 6/2/02 12:27:13 PM Central Daylight Time,
>jajy@earthlink.net writes: 
>
>
>
>
>> > I also realize that Austrailia is about the size of Texas and 
>California 
>> > combined 
>
>> To start with, it's as big as the US.  Secondly, you'll never see 
>it all 
>> in one trip unless you're spending months there, so just realize 
>you'll 
>> probably need a few visits over a lifetime to see the high spots. 
>
>Stupid Triva Time: 
>
>Australia 
>   7,686,850 sq km 
>   2,966,200 sq miles 
>U.S. of A. 
>   9,629,091 sq km 
>   3,715,673 sq miles 
>	(continental is about 600,000 sq. miles less) 
>
>158,706 sq miles (CA) 
>266,807 sq miles (TX) 
>
>In short, Australia is about as large as the Continental US.
>
>
>
>      Although land wise it is about the size of the US, there is kind
>of a lot of desert out there, and once you see one mile of the desert,
>you have pretty much seen it all.  I might be wrong, but I thought I
>remeber hearing that about 80% of the poplulation live close to the
>coast.  Saying that it is about the same size as the US can be
>misleading because while Australia has a lot to see and do, I'd bet
>there is 3 or 4 times more to see and do in the US.   

1,,
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Subject: Questions About Nicholas
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*** EOOH ***
From: SonOfTheTao@aol.com
Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2002 17:40:41 EDT
Subject: Questions About Nicholas
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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       A few questions about Nicholas ConDoin and land titles.  Spoilers 
through The King's Buccaneer.

       >     
       >
       >
       >
       >
       >
       >
       >
       >
       >
       
       First off, a general question on Royalty.  Is there a specific area in 
TKOTI (the kingdom of the isles) that is owned/is given to the royal family?  
For Instance,       
Jameson=Vencar.  Does the Royal Blood have their own land?
       I know Return of the Buccaneer would have (if it had been written) 
taken place after Nicky's failed relationship.  Was this relationship with a 
Kingdom noble, or did Nicholas and....Iashi (IIRC) stick together?
       Were it with a Kingdom noble, did Nicholas have a royal marriage, or 
would it have been a relationship that failed in advance?  How important 
would it be to the crown for the 4th child of the Prince to wed for reasons 
of state?
       I'm not detail hungry, just trying to figure out why Nicholas was 
never married, and what his holdings would be under such circumstances.  No 
matter how many times I read the series, there's always fine points of 
royalty I can't understand.
       
       Thanks,

       Mike  



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From: "Julie Wootten" <wootten@xtra.co.nz>
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Subject: Re: Travelling to Austrailia
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From: "Julie Wootten" <wootten@xtra.co.nz>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Travelling to Austrailia
Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 10:29:11 +1200
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About Ayer's Rock.  It's a rock.  In the middle of a desert.  A big rock,
yes, but still just a rock.  Get over it.  Look at pics online, or buy a
postcard.  It seemed to me when I visited that it's commercial value was
much higher than it's spiritual.  It's the only thing there (apart from
another pile of rocks not too far away), so the travel is outrageous, let
alone the accomodation and meal costs.  I don't know if you can still climb
it, but the most fun to be had is telling tourists there's a Coke machine at
the top.

I enjoyed living and working around Perth and Fremantle, the area south of
there is really nice.  There's quite a wine trail there too, if you're into
that kind of thing - but not being a wine drinker myself, I have zero idea
of the quality.  There's also great surfing, and some gorgeous swimming
beaches that are less crowded than the east coast.  The biggest problem with
the West Coast is that it's just so damn far away from everything else.
It's about a 5 hr flight between Melbourne and Perth.  If you fly from
Brisbane, you may fly over Ayers Rock.

I would personally ignore the centre of Australia.  When I was working in
the desert, there was nothing quite as puzzling as the people you came
across occasionally who were doing a *cycling* tour through the middle of
Australia.  Closer to towns, each year you'd see several accidents involving
tourists that don't quite get the idea that you have to drive differently on
dirt and sand roads than on sealed ones.

But there's heaps to do on the East Coast, as people have said already.  I
personally prefer Brisbane or Melbourne.  One thing people haven't mentioned
so far is the rainforests of Queensland if you're into nature walking and
camping.  There's heaps of them, but I have heard good things of the
Carnarvon Nat. Park.

Of course my personal recommendation would be to visit NZ instead ;-)

Julie.



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Subject: Re: OT: Travelling to Austrailia
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From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: OT: Travelling to Austrailia
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> > I know there's like tons of paperwork to be done with travelling
> > overseas
> > and such, and that there's sometimes a LOT of time involved in this.  I
> > also
> > realize that Austrailia is about the size of Texas and California
> > combined
> > at least and very diverse in areas.... so, I'm at a loss as to the
> > Sydney/Perth/Melbourne choice.
> > I know that this is WAY in advance, but I'm trying to start planning
> > this
> > and budgeting/saving for this trip now... so, I'm looking for
> > advice/0ptions, knowlege of exactly HOW does one travel overseas...
> > I feel a little dumb.  I swear it's not the blond hair!  I'm just
> > trying to
> > get a handle on how to go about planning this.  My last vacation was
> > to a
> > state that I'd lived in, so I already KNEW what to do!  (And yes, I
> > travel
> > too often for thought sometimes.  I live for vacations and indulge in
> > the
> > "long weekend" as frequently as possible.  Went to the race last month
> > in
> > Indy, camping with some friends this month, and off to Louisville for
> > the
> > 4th of july with some other friends... I really need my own plane or
> > something!)
> > Thanks!
> > -TerriLyn
> >
> To start with, it's as big as the US.  Secondly, you'll never see it all
> in one trip unless you're spending months there, so just realize you'll
> probably need a few visits over a lifetime to see the high spots.
>
> Here's the thing, from this Yank's view: Oz is a very urban nation, with
> the majority of people living in cities (most of them on the east coast).
> So to start with deciding which cities, look at your own interests.
> I love Sydney.  I think it's one of the great cosmopolitan towns in the
> world, up there with London, San Francisco, New York, Toronto, etc. in
> the English speaking world.   You can kill a two week vacation and never
> get out of the city center and suburbs of Sydney.
> I love Brisbane, and I enjoy lots of things about Queensland.  It's a
> very different culture from the cockroaches (local slang for those who
> live in New South Wales, who in tern refer to Queenslanders as the "cane
> toads," an extremely obnoxious critter).  In Queensland your off the
> Great Barrier Reef and some of the most spectacular beaches in the
> world.  Great resorts like the Grand Heyman and Turtle Island for
> diving, sailing, etc.


Just as an aside. The whole 'cockroaches' vs 'cane-toads' labels applied
respectively to New South Wales and Queenslanders is a term applied to
their respective  rugby league teams (For those who don't know, the 'State
of Origin' is a 3 match series held every year to determine which state
has the better team - generally considered, by Australians anyway, to be
the greatest rugby league competition in the world due to the fierce
rivallry and emotion generated by the event). The 'Cockroach' is the
traditional mascot of the NSW team (though recently they've changed it to
a Blue Cattle Dog, funnily enough a Queensland blue cattle dog) whereas
the Cane Toad being Queensland's mascot. Being a Queenslander myself, I
think Ray's explanation of it being local slang for the description of
NSW'ers and QLD'ers might be a bit inaccurate in terms of everyday
reference to the people inhabiting the respective states.(though from a
strictly Queenslander perspective, labelling a NSW'er a pest is VERY
accurate *g*)

> Southern Australia has some of the best wine country in the world.
> Western Australia is isolated, but stunning, and Perth and Freemantle
> are worth a visit.
> And the list goes on.
> My advice is go on-line and check out some of the Oz travel sights and
> start thinking about what interest you and what you'd like to do.
> If I wasn't working, it would be a few days in Sydney, pop down to
> Hunters Valley for a wine tour, then up to Queensland for a day or two
> in Brizzy, then off to Jupiter and the beaches.
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----

Ray's suggestion is pretty good. My recommendationb, time permitting, is
to visit Queensland for the beaches, New South Wales for the 'high life'.
The south coast of Victoria, I'm told, is spectacular (The 12 apostles,
giant rock columns rising out of the sea). If you get time, have a look at
visiting the Northern Territory (sure its HOT) and have a look at Kakadu
National Park, Ayers Rock, etc etc.

Thanks
Darragh
================================================
msn: iamtheporkfireman@hotmail.com

"Believe or die - thank you O lord for all those
 options" - Bill Hicks.
================================================



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Subject: Re: Questions About Nicholas
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From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
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Subject: Re: Questions About Nicholas
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>        A few questions about Nicholas ConDoin and land titles.  Spoilers
> through The King's Buccaneer.
>
>        >
>        >
>        >
>        >
>        >
>        >
>        >
>        >
>        >
>        >
>
>        First off, a general question on Royalty.  Is there a specific area in
> TKOTI (the kingdom of the isles) that is owned/is given to the royal family?
> For Instance,
> Jameson=Vencar.  Does the Royal Blood have their own land?
>        I know Return of the Buccaneer would have (if it had been written)
> taken place after Nicky's failed relationship.  Was this relationship with a
> Kingdom noble, or did Nicholas and....Iashi (IIRC) stick together?
>        Were it with a Kingdom noble, did Nicholas have a royal marriage, or
> would it have been a relationship that failed in advance?  How important
> would it be to the crown for the 4th child of the Prince to wed for reasons
> of state?
>        I'm not detail hungry, just trying to figure out why Nicholas was
> never married, and what his holdings would be under such circumstances.  No
> matter how many times I read the series, there's always fine points of
> royalty I can't understand.
>        Thanks,
>        Mike

My explanation of it, Nicky didnt marry becasue he was first a sailor.
Since he was rarely at home (I think this is mentioned in SoaDQ) it is
hardly the climate for a suitable 'marriage'.

Thanks
Darragh
================================================
msn: iamtheporkfireman@hotmail.com

"Believe or die - thank you O lord for all those
 options" - Bill Hicks.
================================================



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Julie Wootten wrote:

 > About Ayer's Rock.  It's a rock.  In the middle of a desert.  A big
 > rock, yes, but still just a rock.  Get over it.  Look at pics
 > online, or buy a postcard.  It seemed to me when I visited that
 > it's commercial value was much higher than it's spiritual.  It's
 > the only thing there (apart from another pile of rocks not too far
 > away), so the travel is outrageous, let alone the accomodation and
 > meal costs.  I don't know if you can still climb it, but the most
 > fun to be had is telling tourists there's a Coke machine at the top.


That's kind of like saying ther Grand Canyon's just a hole in the ground
- accurate, but it misses the point, at least for some.


If you really want a "special place" that is really nothing special, try 
most of Death Valley, or the Four Corners monument at the intersection 
of Utah, Arizona, New Mexico and Colorado.

cd
-- 
Death to all Absolutists!



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Subject: RE: Travelling to Austrailia
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From: "Cameron Duncan" <cduncan@atinera.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Travelling to Austrailia
Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 09:37:16 +1000
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Try some of these sites -


www.visitnsw.com.au
www.tourismvictoria.com.au
www.tourismqueensland.com.au
www.tas.gov.au
www.westernaustralia.net
www.australia.com
www.trav.com.au

They should provide a few ideas at least.....

cheers,

Cameron

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Terri Lyn Layman
> Sent: Sunday, June 02, 2002 4:33 PM
> To: FeistList (E-mail)
> Subject: OT: Travelling to Austrailia
>
>
> First off, this is not anything that can be done shortly... I'm on a
> two-three year timetable for this adventure.
>
> However...
>
> I've never travelled outside of the continent (and my one big
> "international" vacation was a semi-weekend in Canada and I was
> staying with
> some friends in Buffalo, NY... )
>
> SO....
>
> I know there's like tons of paperwork to be done with travelling overseas
> and such, and that there's sometimes a LOT of time involved in
> this.  I also
> realize that Austrailia is about the size of Texas and California combined
> at least and very diverse in areas.... so, I'm at a loss as to the
> Sydney/Perth/Melbourne choice.
>
> I know that this is WAY in advance, but I'm trying to start planning this
> and budgeting/saving for this trip now... so, I'm looking for
> advice/0ptions, knowlege of exactly HOW does one travel overseas...
>
> I feel a little dumb.  I swear it's not the blond hair!  I'm just
> trying to
> get a handle on how to go about planning this.  My last vacation was to a
> state that I'd lived in, so I already KNEW what to do!  (And yes, I travel
> too often for thought sometimes.  I live for vacations and indulge in the
> "long weekend" as frequently as possible.  Went to the race last month in
> Indy, camping with some friends this month, and off to Louisville for the
> 4th of july with some other friends... I really need my own plane or
> something!)
>
> Anyhow, any help that the travellers or Aussies can give is helpful.
>
> Thanks!
> -TerriLyn
>
>



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Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2002 16:50:21 -0700
Subject: Re: Questions About Nicholas
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2002 16:50:21 -0700
Subject: Re: Questions About Nicholas
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Sunday, June 2, 2002, at 02:40 PM, SonOfTheTao@aol.com wrote:

>
>        A few questions about Nicholas ConDoin and land titles.  Spoilers
> through The King's Buccaneer.
>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>        First off, a general question on Royalty.  Is there a specific 
> area in
> TKOTI (the kingdom of the isles) that is owned/is given to the royal 
> family?
> For Instance,
> Jameson=Vencar.  Does the Royal Blood have their own land?

No.  Royal Blood as in the immediate family of the King does not.  The 
sons and daughters who are not heirs marry out and gain lands through 
that, or by grants of title by the King.  So, if Nicky had been a 
landlubber, his elder brother would have made him Duke of something or 
another.  Some family members stay court nobles, i.e. not landed.  BTW, 
there are court barons, earls, and dukes who are not landed who are also 
not members of the royal family.

>        I know Return of the Buccaneer would have (if it had been 
> written)
> taken place after Nicky's failed relationship.  Was this relationship 
> with a
> Kingdom noble, or did Nicholas and....Iashi (IIRC) stick together?
>        Were it with a Kingdom noble, did Nicholas have a royal 
> marriage, or
> would it have been a relationship that failed in advance?  How important
> would it be to the crown for the 4th child of the Prince to wed for 
> reasons
> of state?
>        I'm not detail hungry, just trying to figure out why Nicholas was
> never married, and what his holdings would be under such 
> circumstances.  No
> matter how many times I read the series, there's always fine points of
> royalty I can't understand.
>

Nicholas choose not to wed, or at least thought he'd wed late in life, 
like Amos Trask, who was something of a role model for him.

He would never have wed Iashi because he knew she was an opportunist, 
and he didn't love her.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 10:14:43 +1000 (GMT+1000)
From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Travelling to Austrailia
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> Julie Wootten wrote:
>
>  > About Ayer's Rock.  It's a rock.  In the middle of a desert.  A big
>  > rock, yes, but still just a rock.  Get over it.  Look at pics
>  > online, or buy a postcard.  It seemed to me when I visited that
>  > it's commercial value was much higher than it's spiritual.  It's
>  > the only thing there (apart from another pile of rocks not too far
>  > away), so the travel is outrageous, let alone the accomodation and
>  > meal costs.  I don't know if you can still climb it, but the most
>  > fun to be had is telling tourists there's a Coke machine at the top.
>

If you've seen a sheep, you've seen New Zealand :)

Hehehe.

Thanks
Darragh
================================================
msn: iamtheporkfireman@hotmail.com

"Believe or die - thank you O lord for all those
 options" - Bill Hicks.
================================================



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*** EOOH ***
From: SonOfTheTao@aol.com
Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2002 21:24:11 EDT
Subject: Re: Questions About Nicholas
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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In a message dated 6/2/2002 8:01:58 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
raymond@bittersea.com writes:


> 
> Nicholas choose not to wed, or at least thought he'd wed late in life, 
> like Amos Trask, who was something of a role model for him.
> 
> He would never have wed Iashi because he knew she was an opportunist, 
> and he didn't love her.
> 
> Best, R.E.F.
> 

       All makes perfect sense.  Thanks Ray.

       Mike

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*** EOOH ***
From: "Julie Wootten" <wootten@xtra.co.nz>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Travelling to Austrailia
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From: "Darragh Murray" <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
> If you've seen a sheep, you've seen New Zealand :)

Come on, Darragh, just because you have a fixation doesn't mean
the rest of us do!  In fact, most of us probably have much more
mainstream recreational interests ;-p

Gimme a break though.  I mention ONE rip-off tourist
attraction of Australia, and promote heaps of others, but that's
what you lot pick on.  Jeesh.  If I'm going somewhere, and ask
advice, I'd like to be told what's a waste of time and money.  It
helps me make a more informed decision.  If someone only has
a few weeks in Australia, then going to see Uluru is IMHO an
incredible waste of time - taking up (including travel) probably
4 days minimum.  I was "lucky" enough that I had a few days
spare between jobs just outside Alice Springs, and a car handy,
so apart from the outrageous cost of accomodation and food I
wasn't gouged too badly. 

Julie.




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Subject: Murder in LaMut
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Well, I went to the local Angus & Robertson here in Brisbane, and guess
what was on the new release shelf?  :)
I can't wait to get home tonight to start reading!!!!!

Funny though, it's a couple of days early...

I hope everyone else get's their copy soon <g>

Cameron



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From: Tom Brincefield <tomb@bright.net>
Subject: [OT]Re: Travelling to Austrailia
In-Reply-To: <00bd01c20aa2$ee826d60$e86860cb@shaelynn>
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Date: Mon, 02 Sep 2002 23:45:44 -0400
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: Tom Brincefield <tomb@bright.net>
Subject: [OT]Re: Travelling to Austrailia
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At 10:04 PM 6/2/02, you wrote:

>Gimme a break though.  I mention ONE rip-off tourist
>attraction of Australia, and promote heaps of others, but that's
>what you lot pick on.  Jeesh.  If I'm going somewhere, and ask
>advice, I'd like to be told what's a waste of time and money.  It
>helps me make a more informed decision.  If someone only has
>a few weeks in Australia, then going to see Uluru is IMHO an
>incredible waste of time - taking up (including travel) probably
>4 days minimum.  I was "lucky" enough that I had a few days
>spare between jobs just outside Alice Springs, and a car handy,
>so apart from the outrageous cost of accomodation and food I
>wasn't gouged too badly.
>
>Julie.

When I was Down Under, I didn't feel at all ripped off by the days in
Ayer's Rock Resort. The historical and cultural aspects of both Uluru
and the Kata Tjuta area are well worth seeing, plus the natural beauty
of the area makes it a trip that was very enjoyable. I didn't get to climb
Uluru, but I did get to see water pouring off of the Rock.

And even if you don't want to see that part of the Red Centre, there is
still the Alice Springs area and the West Mcdonnell range to explore.
You can easily spend days just exploring there.


                                                    Tom B.
                                                    tomb@bright.net
                                                    http://www.bright.net/~tomb
                                                    http://www.dm.net/~tom-b
______________________________________________________

"Western culture has practiced imperialistic conquest, racism,
slavery, persecution, intolerance, and oppression. So has every
other culture in the world. Only two things remain to be explained.
First, why was the West so successful at it? Second, why did
they repent?"



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Subject: RE: Murder in LaMut
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*** EOOH ***
From: "A Irving" <s355156@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Murder in LaMut
Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 13:54:03 +1000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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I am going to go buy mine now I think.... oh hang on, I should be
working... stuff it. I'll read it while watching the world cup, only 3
matches on tonight though.

CIAO,
      Aaron

http://www.hallofworlds.net/kerr/main.php
http://www.nightshadow.co.uk 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]
> On Behalf Of Cameron Duncan
> Sent: Monday, 3 June 2002 1:10 PM
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Subject: Murder in LaMut
> 
> Well, I went to the local Angus & Robertson here in Brisbane, and guess
> what was on the new release shelf?  :)
> I can't wait to get home tonight to start reading!!!!!
> 
> Funny though, it's a couple of days early...
> 
> I hope everyone else get's their copy soon <g>
> 
> Cameron



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From: "Cameron Duncan" <cduncan@atinera.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Murder in LaMut
Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 14:01:51 +1000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Cameron Duncan" <cduncan@atinera.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Murder in LaMut
Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 14:01:51 +1000
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lol!
I'll be going home, cooking dinner, leaving the tv off, and reading.......
Although, I might just re-read Honoured Enemy first to draw the experience
out a bit longer :-)

Cameron

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of A Irving
> Sent: Monday, June 03, 2002 1:54 PM
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Subject: RE: Murder in LaMut
>
>
> I am going to go buy mine now I think.... oh hang on, I should be
> working... stuff it. I'll read it while watching the world cup, only 3
> matches on tonight though.
>
> CIAO,
>       Aaron
>
> http://www.hallofworlds.net/kerr/main.php
> http://www.nightshadow.co.uk
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]
> > On Behalf Of Cameron Duncan
> > Sent: Monday, 3 June 2002 1:10 PM
> > To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > Subject: Murder in LaMut
> >
> > Well, I went to the local Angus & Robertson here in Brisbane, and
> guess
> > what was on the new release shelf?  :)
> > I can't wait to get home tonight to start reading!!!!!
> >
> > Funny though, it's a couple of days early...
> >
> > I hope everyone else get's their copy soon <g>
> >
> > Cameron
>
>



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I am using IncrediMail as my email program!
If anyone knows how to change the settings to 
bring my posts inline with the "norm" please let me
know (off list of course :>)

I have replied to Andy's post with no alterations!

Regards 
Chris
A stitch in time would have confused Einstein. 
Unknown

-------Original Message-------
>From: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Date: 01 June 2002 17:43:44
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: Text Quoting
>
>>From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
>
>>Chris, BTW, your e-mail doesn't quote. I had to do it manually, for some
>>reason.
>
>It's because the body of his messages is a text attachment
>
>Andy Holcombe
>Andy_wan_Kenobi@hotmail.com
>
>"To err is human, but to really foul things up requires a computer."
>-Farmers' Almanac 1978
>
>"I don't give a damn for a man who can only spell a word one way."
>-Mark Twain
>
>"History will be kind to me, for I intend to write it."
>-Winston Churchill
>
_________________________________________________________________
Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
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From: "Andy Holcombe" <andy_wan_kenobi@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Text Quoting
Date: Mon, 03 Jun 2002 08:15:46 -0500
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>From: "Milamber" <milamber_aka_pug@hotmail.com>
>
>I am using IncrediMail as my email program!
>If anyone knows how to change the settings to
>bring my posts inline with the "norm" please let me
>know (off list of course :>)

Didn't have any problems quoting your text this time.


Andy Holcombe
Andy_wan_Kenobi@hotmail.com

"To err is human, but to really foul things up requires a computer."
     -Farmers' Almanac 1978

"I don't give a damn for a man who can only spell a word one way."
     -Mark Twain

"History will be kind to me, for I intend to write it."
     -Winston Churchill

_________________________________________________________________
Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
http://www.hotmail.com



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From: "Michael Gibson" <mike@gibbyco.freeserve.co.uk>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Golden Jubilee
Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 14:52:35 +0100
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Here's wishing a Happy Jubilee to all of us around the world celebrating Queen
Elizabeth's 50 years of being queen.

Long Live the Queen!

Mike,
Gibfish of the West



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From: Kenneth Jones <killkenny@thos.co.za>
Subject: Orosini tribe
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Date: Mon, 03 Jun 2002 16:48:04 +0200
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From: Kenneth Jones <killkenny@thos.co.za>
Subject: Orosini tribe
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Hi Ray and everyone else.

I have been reading the Synopsis for Talon of the Silver Hawk, and was 
wondering where on Midkemia the Orosini tribe is situated.

Thanks a ton!

Regards,
Kenneth Jones



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 08:13:25 -0700
Subject: Re: Orosini tribe
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On Monday, June 3, 2002, at 07:48 AM, Kenneth Jones wrote:

> Hi Ray and everyone else.
>
> I have been reading the Synopsis for Talon of the Silver Hawk, and was 
> wondering where on Midkemia the Orosini tribe is situated.
>
> Thanks a ton!
>
> Regards,
> Kenneth Jones
>
>
>
>

In the mountains that sit athwart the Eastern Kingdoms.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
From: "William Marnoch" <william@wmarnoch.freeserve.co.uk>
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On 3 Jun 02, at 13:09, Cameron Duncan wrote:

> Well, I went to the local Angus & Robertson here in Brisbane, and guess
> what was on the new release shelf?  :) I can't wait to get home tonight to
> start reading!!!!!

I saw a few copies earlier today in Ottaker's in Edinburgh (at £4 off 
RRP). I'd guess several of the other British book chains have it by 
now as well.
 
> Funny though, it's a couple of days early...
> 
> I hope everyone else get's their copy soon <g>
> 
> Cameron


-- 
William Marnoch
william@wmarnoch.freeserve.co.uk
ICQ:77848483



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From: RMAskren@aol.com
Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 12:48:58 EDT
Subject: Re: Orosini tribe
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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In a message dated 6/3/02 8:31:16 AM Pacific Daylight Time, 
raymond@bittersea.com writes:
> On Monday, June 3, 2002, at 07:48 AM, Kenneth Jones wrote:
> 
> > Hi Ray and everyone else.
> >
> > I have been reading the Synopsis for Talon of the Silver Hawk, and was 
> > wondering where on Midkemia the Orosini tribe is situated.
> >
> > Thanks a ton!
> >
> > Regards,
> > Kenneth Jones
> >
> >
> >
> >
> 
> In the mountains that sit athwart the Eastern Kingdoms.


Take a look at http://www.shoalcreek.com/feist/eastern.htm

-Ralph



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Athwart, huh Ray. You didn't start writing "Return of the Buccaneer" 
afterall, have you? :)

Adieu

Jimmy

>From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: Re: Orosini tribe
>Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 08:13:25 -0700
>
>
>On Monday, June 3, 2002, at 07:48 AM, Kenneth Jones wrote:
>
>>Hi Ray and everyone else.
>>
>>I have been reading the Synopsis for Talon of the Silver Hawk, and was
>>wondering where on Midkemia the Orosini tribe is situated.
>>
>>Thanks a ton!
>>
>>Regards,
>>Kenneth Jones
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>In the mountains that sit athwart the Eastern Kingdoms.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
>stupidity.
>


_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx



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Where can you read it ? :)

Syl

---------- Entête initiale -----------

De      : owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
A          : FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Cc          : 
Date      : Mon, 03 Jun 2002 16:48:04 +0200
Sujet : Orosini tribe

> Hi Ray and everyone else.
> 
> I have been reading the Synopsis for Talon of the Silver Hawk, and was 
> wondering where on Midkemia the Orosini tribe is situated.
> 
> Thanks a ton!
> 
> Regards,
> Kenneth Jones
> 
> 

Fenyx Kell.



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Subject: Tools
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon,  3 Jun 2002 21:18:20 +0000
Subject: Tools
From: "Sylvain Guehl" <fenyxkell@demo.xandmail.com>
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Hi Ray,

What kind of computers/laptops/pda or any (portable?) devices are you
using ? I know you kinda like Macintosh, but maybe you're using
something totally different while traveling or on tour etc.

Anyway, I'd like to know you complete "whole-writers-toolkit", the
whole stuff set, if you wish :) just out of curiosity.

Thanks

Syl



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From: "Cameron Duncan" <cduncan@atinera.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Murder in LaMut
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 08:14:12 +1000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Cameron Duncan" <cduncan@atinera.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Murder in LaMut
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 08:14:12 +1000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Yep - the price here was $44.95 AU - marked down to $34.95 AU.
It seems to be a pretty standard way of pricing with new books here....

Cameron

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of William Marnoch
> Sent: Tuesday, June 04, 2002 1:58 AM
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Subject: Re: Murder in LaMut
>
>
>
>
> On 3 Jun 02, at 13:09, Cameron Duncan wrote:
>
> > Well, I went to the local Angus & Robertson here in Brisbane, and guess
> > what was on the new release shelf?  :) I can't wait to get home
> tonight to
> > start reading!!!!!
>
> I saw a few copies earlier today in Ottaker's in Edinburgh (at £4 off
> RRP). I'd guess several of the other British book chains have it by
> now as well.
>
> > Funny though, it's a couple of days early...
> >
> > I hope everyone else get's their copy soon <g>
> >
> > Cameron
>
>
> --
> William Marnoch
> william@wmarnoch.freeserve.co.uk
> ICQ:77848483
>
>



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From: "A Irving" <s355156@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Murder in LaMut
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 08:28:30 +1000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "A Irving" <s355156@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Murder in LaMut
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 08:28:30 +1000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

It's funny that, you almost never seem to pay the full RRP. I didn't buy
it from Dymocks yesterday, I bought it from Target for $29.25 AU. It
appears that it is out everywhere now (Target is a cheap department
store, they normally take longer to get books then actual book stores,
but already have Murder in La Mut.) I haven't read much yet, the soccer
kept distracting me. But hopefully it won't be long.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]
> On Behalf Of Cameron Duncan
> Sent: Tuesday, 4 June 2002 8:14 AM
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Subject: RE: Murder in LaMut
> 
> Yep - the price here was $44.95 AU - marked down to $34.95 AU.
> It seems to be a pretty standard way of pricing with new books here....
> 
> Cameron
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of William Marnoch
> > Sent: Tuesday, June 04, 2002 1:58 AM
> > To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > Subject: Re: Murder in LaMut
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On 3 Jun 02, at 13:09, Cameron Duncan wrote:
> >
> > > Well, I went to the local Angus & Robertson here in Brisbane, and
> guess
> > > what was on the new release shelf?  :) I can't wait to get home
> > tonight to
> > > start reading!!!!!
> >
> > I saw a few copies earlier today in Ottaker's in Edinburgh (at £4 off
> > RRP). I'd guess several of the other British book chains have it by
> > now as well.
> >
> > > Funny though, it's a couple of days early...
> > >
> > > I hope everyone else get's their copy soon <g>
> > >
> > > Cameron
> >
> >
> > --
> > William Marnoch
> > william@wmarnoch.freeserve.co.uk
> > ICQ:77848483
> >
> >



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Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 09:17:17 +1000 (GMT+1000)
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From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Travelling to Austrailia
In-Reply-To: <00bd01c20aa2$ee826d60$e86860cb@shaelynn>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 09:17:17 +1000 (GMT+1000)
From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Travelling to Austrailia
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> > If you've seen a sheep, you've seen New Zealand :)
> Come on, Darragh, just because you have a fixation doesn't mean
> the rest of us do!  In fact, most of us probably have much more
> mainstream recreational interests ;-p
> Gimme a break though.  I mention ONE rip-off tourist
> attraction of Australia, and promote heaps of others, but that's
> what you lot pick on.  Jeesh.  If I'm going somewhere, and ask
> advice, I'd like to be told what's a waste of time and money.  It
> helps me make a more informed decision.  If someone only has
> a few weeks in Australia, then going to see Uluru is IMHO an
> incredible waste of time - taking up (including travel) probably
> 4 days minimum.  I was "lucky" enough that I had a few days
> spare between jobs just outside Alice Springs, and a car handy,
> so apart from the outrageous cost of accomodation and food I
> wasn't gouged too badly.
> Julie.

Hehe, I was only joking around Julie:P I swear! *g*



Thanks
Darragh
================================================
msn: iamtheporkfireman@hotmail.com

"Believe or die - thank you O lord for all those
 options" - Bill Hicks.
================================================



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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: Al Burrell <al.burl@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: Betrayal at Krondor music
In-Reply-To: <001c01c20b4b$fd8379e0$3b0199a8@cduncan.atinera.com.au>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 04 Jun 2002 00:21:15 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: Al Burrell <al.burl@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: Betrayal at Krondor music
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Sorry if this has been mentioned before, but I've found a site that has a 
lot of BaK music available to download for anyone who's interested.

http://www.queststudios.com/quest/bak.html

Al



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Subject: Re:Betrayal at Krondor music
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Date: Mon,  3 Jun 2002 23:34:14 +0000
Subject: Re:Betrayal at Krondor music
From: "Sylvain Guehl" <fenyxkell@demo.xandmail.com>
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Yep I did mention it long ago :)

What's good in this is that with MID format you can print the musical
score and learn to play it your own way (guitar and flute are a
wonderful duet for those BAK musics)

Syl




> Sorry if this has been mentioned before, but I've found a site that has a 
> lot of BaK music available to download for anyone who's interested.
> 
> http://www.queststudios.com/quest/bak.html
> 
> Al
> 
> 

Fenyx Kell.



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From: "Cameron Duncan" <cduncan@atinera.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Murder in LaMut
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 09:41:57 +1000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Cameron Duncan" <cduncan@atinera.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Murder in LaMut
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 09:41:57 +1000
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Actually, as an aside - if anyone in Australia happens to notice any
promotion
material (like posters) for Murder in LaMut, I'd be most interested to hear
where and what type.
regards,

Cameron

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of A Irving
> Sent: Tuesday, June 04, 2002 8:29 AM
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Subject: RE: Murder in LaMut
>
>
> It's funny that, you almost never seem to pay the full RRP. I didn't buy
> it from Dymocks yesterday, I bought it from Target for $29.25 AU. It
> appears that it is out everywhere now (Target is a cheap department
> store, they normally take longer to get books then actual book stores,
> but already have Murder in La Mut.) I haven't read much yet, the soccer
> kept distracting me. But hopefully it won't be long.
>



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Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 21:08:22 EDT
Subject: Re: Betrayal at Krondor music
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*** EOOH ***
From: VinMac3l6@aol.com
Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 21:08:22 EDT
Subject: Re: Betrayal at Krondor music
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Thanks alot for the great link. I recently played through that game a second 
time. Even though it came out in 94, it still is more entertaining then alot 
of the stuff out there right now. 

Without that game I would of never heard of Raymond Fiest, and missed out on 
so many hours of great liturature. 

Has anyone played Return to Krondor? I know it didnt get as good reviews as 
BAK, but it was a good book and got good user comments. 

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*** EOOH ***
From: DuncanMacLeod89@aol.com
Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 21:17:35 EDT
Subject: Re: Betrayal at Krondor music
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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In a message dated 6/3/2002 6:16:05 PM Pacific Standard Time, 
VinMac3l6@aol.com writes:


> Thanks alot for the great link. I recently played through that game a second 
> time. Even though it came out in 94, it still is more entertaining then 
> alot of the stuff out there right now. 
> 
> Without that game I would of never heard of Raymond Fiest, and missed out 
> on so many hours of great liturature. 
> 
> Has anyone played Return to Krondor? I know it didnt get as good reviews as 
> BAK, but it was a good book and got good user comments. 

I have. It is a good game. My dad got it when I was younger so I had no clue 
what it was. and Just now I started playign ti because he introduced me to 
feist. It is a awsome game. I just am stuck.
-Chance
"We who are truly brave, will never live in fear."-The Rock

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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 04 Jun 2002 02:25:37 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: Al Burrell <al.burl@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Betrayal at Krondor music
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I've played it through many times. It's a great game, but I prefer BaK.

Remember that the book was based on the game, and not the other way around.

Al

At 21:08 03/06/2002 -0400, VinMac3l6@aol.com wrote:

>Has anyone played Return to Krondor? I know it didnt get as good reviews 
>as BAK, but it was a good book and got good user comments.



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Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 19:14:32 -0700
Subject: Re: Tools
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 19:14:32 -0700
Subject: Re: Tools
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Monday, June 3, 2002, at 02:18 PM, Sylvain Guehl wrote:

> Hi Ray,
>
> What kind of computers/laptops/pda or any (portable?) devices are you 
> using ? I know you kinda like Macintosh, but maybe you're using 
> something totally different while traveling or on tour etc.
>
> Anyway, I'd like to know you complete "whole-writers-toolkit", the 
> whole stuff set, if you wish :) just out of curiosity.
>
> Thanks
>
> Syl
>
>
>
>
I use a Mac G4 dual processor as a desktop and a Mac Titanium desktop, 
and I've been using an iPaq PDA, but I think I'm going back to Palm 
soon, because Windows CE sucks when it comes to syncing with anything 
but a PC.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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       Spoilers for anyone who hasn't read the Talon Of The Silver Hawk 
synopsis at Amazon 
(http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0002246813/ref%3Dpd%5Fsim%5Fb%5Fdp/0

26-5860704-1766017)

       >
       >
       >
       >
       >
       >
       >
       >
       >

       Ray, 
       
       Red Squirrel's "native" name; Kielianapuna, is that name a 
translation/extension of our lovable, lesser god Killian's name?

       Mike

    




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Subject: Re: Travelling to Austrailia
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>>If you've seen a sheep, you've seen New Zealand
I've lived in New Zealand all my life, im only 20, so yes i am young. But
i've never seen a sheep except for on tv, so i guess this statement about Nz
and its sheep is stupid :)



----- Original Message -----
From: "Darragh Murray" <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, June 04, 2002 11:17 AM
Subject: Re: Travelling to Austrailia


> > > If you've seen a sheep, you've seen New Zealand :)
> > Come on, Darragh, just because you have a fixation doesn't mean
> > the rest of us do!  In fact, most of us probably have much more
> > mainstream recreational interests ;-p
> > Gimme a break though.  I mention ONE rip-off tourist
> > attraction of Australia, and promote heaps of others, but that's
> > what you lot pick on.  Jeesh.  If I'm going somewhere, and ask
> > advice, I'd like to be told what's a waste of time and money.  It
> > helps me make a more informed decision.  If someone only has
> > a few weeks in Australia, then going to see Uluru is IMHO an
> > incredible waste of time - taking up (including travel) probably
> > 4 days minimum.  I was "lucky" enough that I had a few days
> > spare between jobs just outside Alice Springs, and a car handy,
> > so apart from the outrageous cost of accomodation and food I
> > wasn't gouged too badly.
> > Julie.
>
> Hehe, I was only joking around Julie:P I swear! *g*
>
>
>
> Thanks
> Darragh
> ================================================
> msn: iamtheporkfireman@hotmail.com
>
> "Believe or die - thank you O lord for all those
>  options" - Bill Hicks.
> ================================================
>



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From: Tim Nicholas <tim@nicholas.net.nz>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 17:59:34 +1200
From: Tim Nicholas <tim@nicholas.net.nz>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Travelling to Austrailia
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Are you serious? Do you live in Auckland? 
Actually, I suspect that there are now far more cows than sheep
in NZ.

Tim.

On Tue, Jun 04, 2002 at 04:32:46PM +1200, Adam Thornton wrote:
> >>If you've seen a sheep, you've seen New Zealand
> I've lived in New Zealand all my life, im only 20, so yes i am young. But
> i've never seen a sheep except for on tv, so i guess this statement about Nz
> and its sheep is stupid :)
> 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Darragh Murray" <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
> To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> Sent: Tuesday, June 04, 2002 11:17 AM
> Subject: Re: Travelling to Austrailia
> 
> 
> > > > If you've seen a sheep, you've seen New Zealand :)
> > > Come on, Darragh, just because you have a fixation doesn't mean
> > > the rest of us do!  In fact, most of us probably have much more
> > > mainstream recreational interests ;-p
> > > Gimme a break though.  I mention ONE rip-off tourist
> > > attraction of Australia, and promote heaps of others, but that's
> > > what you lot pick on.  Jeesh.  If I'm going somewhere, and ask
> > > advice, I'd like to be told what's a waste of time and money.  It
> > > helps me make a more informed decision.  If someone only has
> > > a few weeks in Australia, then going to see Uluru is IMHO an
> > > incredible waste of time - taking up (including travel) probably
> > > 4 days minimum.  I was "lucky" enough that I had a few days
> > > spare between jobs just outside Alice Springs, and a car handy,
> > > so apart from the outrageous cost of accomodation and food I
> > > wasn't gouged too badly.
> > > Julie.
> >
> > Hehe, I was only joking around Julie:P I swear! *g*
> >
> >
> >
> > Thanks
> > Darragh
> > ================================================
> > msn: iamtheporkfireman@hotmail.com
> >
> > "Believe or die - thank you O lord for all those
> >  options" - Bill Hicks.
> > ================================================
> >
> 
> 

-- 
Tim Nicholas                          ||                      Cilix
Email: tim@nicholas.net.nz            ||       Dunedin, New Zealand
http://tim.nicholas.net.nz/           ||  Cell/SMS: +64 21 113 0399
"Grow up, Larry. You give me too much credit." - Linus Torvalds



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Subject: Way OT: Agriculture was Re: Travelling to Austrailia
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Julie Wootten" <wootten@xtra.co.nz>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Way OT: Agriculture was Re: Travelling to Austrailia
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 19:12:33 +1200
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Actually, I was wondering if he lived in the Waikato region (predominantly
dairy).
However, when it comes to relative numbers of cows and sheep... it's not
even
close - sheep all the way.  Interesting to make comparisons though;
Population in NZ:                     Sheep > Dairy cattle > Deer
NZ pop./World pop. (%)         Deer > Sheep > Dairy cattle
Overseas funds earned for NZ  Dairy cattle > Sheep > Cattle

While there's been a big push towards dairy farming with the huge earnings
in
the last few years, with the NZ$ increasing, milk solid payouts are lower.
Sheep
numbers are going down and beef cattle up, but I personally can't see them
ever
getting lower than dairy + beef numbers.

Julie.

> Are you serious? Do you live in Auckland?
> Actually, I suspect that there are now far more cows than sheep
> in NZ.
>
> Tim.
>
> On Tue, Jun 04, 2002 at 04:32:46PM +1200, Adam Thornton wrote:
> > >>If you've seen a sheep, you've seen New Zealand
> > I've lived in New Zealand all my life, im only 20, so yes i am young. But
> > i've never seen a sheep except for on tv, so i guess this statement about Nz
> > and its sheep is stupid :)




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Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 17:18:12 +1000 (GMT+1000)
From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Travelling to Austrailia
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Funnily enough, Australia has more sheep than New Zealand:P



> Are you serious? Do you live in Auckland?
> Actually, I suspect that there are now far more cows than sheep
> in NZ.
>
> Tim.
>
> On Tue, Jun 04, 2002 at 04:32:46PM +1200, Adam Thornton wrote:
> > >>If you've seen a sheep, you've seen New Zealand
> > I've lived in New Zealand all my life, im only 20, so yes i am young. But
> > i've never seen a sheep except for on tv, so i guess this statement about Nz
> > and its sheep is stupid :)
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Darragh Murray" <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
> > To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> > Sent: Tuesday, June 04, 2002 11:17 AM
> > Subject: Re: Travelling to Austrailia
> >
> >
> > > > > If you've seen a sheep, you've seen New Zealand :)
> > > > Come on, Darragh, just because you have a fixation doesn't mean
> > > > the rest of us do!  In fact, most of us probably have much more
> > > > mainstream recreational interests ;-p
> > > > Gimme a break though.  I mention ONE rip-off tourist
> > > > attraction of Australia, and promote heaps of others, but that's
> > > > what you lot pick on.  Jeesh.  If I'm going somewhere, and ask
> > > > advice, I'd like to be told what's a waste of time and money.  It
> > > > helps me make a more informed decision.  If someone only has
> > > > a few weeks in Australia, then going to see Uluru is IMHO an
> > > > incredible waste of time - taking up (including travel) probably
> > > > 4 days minimum.  I was "lucky" enough that I had a few days
> > > > spare between jobs just outside Alice Springs, and a car handy,
> > > > so apart from the outrageous cost of accomodation and food I
> > > > wasn't gouged too badly.
> > > > Julie.
> > >
> > > Hehe, I was only joking around Julie:P I swear! *g*
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > > Darragh
> > > ================================================
> > > msn: iamtheporkfireman@hotmail.com
> > >
> > > "Believe or die - thank you O lord for all those
> > >  options" - Bill Hicks.
> > > ================================================
> > >
> >
> >
>
> --
> Tim Nicholas                          ||                      Cilix
> Email: tim@nicholas.net.nz            ||       Dunedin, New Zealand
> http://tim.nicholas.net.nz/           ||  Cell/SMS: +64 21 113 0399
> "Grow up, Larry. You give me too much credit." - Linus Torvalds
>
>

Thanks
Darragh
================================================
msn: iamtheporkfireman@hotmail.com

"Believe or die - thank you O lord for all those
 options" - Bill Hicks.
================================================



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From: "Adam Thornton" <sandman_one87@hotmail.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
References: <Pine.OSF.4.30.0206040916360.11425-100000@student.uq.edu.au> <OE19YC98Bi89QtpfTYS00002304@hotmail.com> <20020604055934.GA870@nicholas.net.nz>
Subject: Re: Travelling to Austrailia
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 19:19:04 +1200
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*** EOOH ***
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From: "Adam Thornton" <sandman_one87@hotmail.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Travelling to Austrailia
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 19:19:04 +1200
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lol yup, i live in Auckland.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Nicholas" <tim@nicholas.net.nz>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, June 04, 2002 5:59 PM
Subject: Re: Travelling to Austrailia


> Are you serious? Do you live in Auckland?
> Actually, I suspect that there are now far more cows than sheep
> in NZ.
>
> Tim.
>
> On Tue, Jun 04, 2002 at 04:32:46PM +1200, Adam Thornton wrote:
> > >>If you've seen a sheep, you've seen New Zealand
> > I've lived in New Zealand all my life, im only 20, so yes i am young. But
> > i've never seen a sheep except for on tv, so i guess this statement about Nz
> > and its sheep is stupid :)
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Darragh Murray" <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
> > To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> > Sent: Tuesday, June 04, 2002 11:17 AM
> > Subject: Re: Travelling to Austrailia
> >
> >
> > > > > If you've seen a sheep, you've seen New Zealand :)
> > > > Come on, Darragh, just because you have a fixation doesn't mean
> > > > the rest of us do!  In fact, most of us probably have much more
> > > > mainstream recreational interests ;-p
> > > > Gimme a break though.  I mention ONE rip-off tourist
> > > > attraction of Australia, and promote heaps of others, but that's
> > > > what you lot pick on.  Jeesh.  If I'm going somewhere, and ask
> > > > advice, I'd like to be told what's a waste of time and money.  It
> > > > helps me make a more informed decision.  If someone only has
> > > > a few weeks in Australia, then going to see Uluru is IMHO an
> > > > incredible waste of time - taking up (including travel) probably
> > > > 4 days minimum.  I was "lucky" enough that I had a few days
> > > > spare between jobs just outside Alice Springs, and a car handy,
> > > > so apart from the outrageous cost of accomodation and food I
> > > > wasn't gouged too badly.
> > > > Julie.
> > >
> > > Hehe, I was only joking around Julie:P I swear! *g*
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > > Darragh
> > > ================================================
> > > msn: iamtheporkfireman@hotmail.com
> > >
> > > "Believe or die - thank you O lord for all those
> > >  options" - Bill Hicks.
> > > ================================================
> > >
> >
> >
>
> --
> Tim Nicholas                          ||                      Cilix
> Email: tim@nicholas.net.nz            ||       Dunedin, New Zealand
> http://tim.nicholas.net.nz/           ||  Cell/SMS: +64 21 113 0399
> "Grow up, Larry. You give me too much credit." - Linus Torvalds
>



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From: R Robertson <taliesin_21@yahoo.com.au>
Subject: Re: Murder in LaMut
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 22:11:50 +1000 (EST)
From: R Robertson <taliesin_21@yahoo.com.au>
Subject: Re: Murder in LaMut
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I went and picked up my copy of MiL today from Pulp
Fiction (yay!).  The guy there who runs the store had
some news that I thought might interest those people
on the list who live in Brisbane.  Basically he said 
Pulp Fiction are going to (or going to try to) set
up a dinner with Ray when he's here on tour.  As I 
understand it they're going to sell tickets to the 
dinner - not sure how much, they're not too clear on 
prices or anything else yet.  He said there'll be more

details closer to the date.

I'm assuming you're all familiar with the Pulp Fiction

bookstore, but if you're not it's in Anzac Square 
Arcade off Edward Street. :-)

Rebecca


 --- Cameron Duncan <cduncan@atinera.com.au> wrote: >
Well, I went to the local Angus & Robertson here in
> Brisbane, and guess
> what was on the new release shelf?  :)
> I can't wait to get home tonight to start
> reading!!!!!
> 
> Funny though, it's a couple of days early...
> 
> I hope everyone else get's their copy soon <g>
> 
> Cameron
>  

http://www.sold.com.au - The Sold.com.au Big Brand Sale
- New PCs, notebooks, digital cameras, phones and more ... Sale ends June 12



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Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 06:10:08 -0700
Subject: Re: Talon Question
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 06:10:08 -0700
Subject: Re: Talon Question
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On Monday, June 3, 2002, at 08:34 PM, SonOfTheTao@aol.com wrote:

>
>        Spoilers for anyone who hasn't read the Talon Of The Silver Hawk
> synopsis at Amazon
> (http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0002246813/ref%3Dpd%5Fsim%5Fb%5Fdp/
> 0
>
> 26-5860704-1766017)
>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>        Ray,
>
>        Red Squirrel's "native" name; Kielianapuna, is that name a
> translation/extension of our lovable, lesser god Killian's name?
>
>        Mike
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

No.

OK, it's time for the once-in-a-while, every-so-often Feist Ran On Why  
You People Scare Me Sometimes! <g>

Seriously, there are, after all, only 26 letters in the English 
alphabet, and after this many books, some names are going to bear 
passing resemblance to one another.

Best, R.E.F.


----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 06:11:30 -0700
Subject: Re: Travelling to Austrailia
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On Monday, June 3, 2002, at 10:59 PM, Tim Nicholas wrote:

> Are you serious? Do you live in Auckland?
> Actually, I suspect that there are now far more cows than sheep
> in NZ.
>

Chances are 75% he does, given that's the percentage of NZ's population 
in the city.

As there are 30 million sheep in NZ, I find your cows observation odd.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
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Subject: Re: Murder in LaMut
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 00:19:24 +1000 (GMT+1000)
From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Murder in LaMut
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I never visited Pulp Fiction

But I personally would appreciate it if you could keep me, and other list
members posted.

> I went and picked up my copy of MiL today from Pulp
> Fiction (yay!).  The guy there who runs the store had
> some news that I thought might interest those people
> on the list who live in Brisbane.  Basically he said
> Pulp Fiction are going to (or going to try to) set
> up a dinner with Ray when he's here on tour.  As I
> understand it they're going to sell tickets to the
> dinner - not sure how much, they're not too clear on
> prices or anything else yet.  He said there'll be more
>
> details closer to the date.
>
> I'm assuming you're all familiar with the Pulp Fiction
>
> bookstore, but if you're not it's in Anzac Square
> Arcade off Edward Street. :-)
>
> Rebecca
>
>
>  --- Cameron Duncan <cduncan@atinera.com.au> wrote: >
> Well, I went to the local Angus & Robertson here in
> > Brisbane, and guess
> > what was on the new release shelf?  :)
> > I can't wait to get home tonight to start
> > reading!!!!!
> >
> > Funny though, it's a couple of days early...
> >
> > I hope everyone else get's their copy soon <g>
> >
> > Cameron
> >
>
> http://www.sold.com.au - The Sold.com.au Big Brand Sale
> - New PCs, notebooks, digital cameras, phones and more ... Sale ends June 12
>
>

Thanks
Darragh
================================================
msn: iamtheporkfireman@hotmail.com

"Believe or die - thank you O lord for all those
 options" - Bill Hicks.
================================================



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References: <9614DBDA-77BC-11D6-96F9-003065A8A644@bittersea.com>
Subject: Re: Travelling to Austrailia
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 07:35:08 +1200
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Julie Wootten" <wootten@xtra.co.nz>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Travelling to Austrailia
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 07:35:08 +1200
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> Chances are 75% he does, given that's the percentage of NZ's population 
> in the city.
> 
> As there are 30 million sheep in NZ, I find your cows observation odd.
> 
> Best, R.E.F.

In 1999, there were 46.2 million (down from 70.3 million in 1982)
Beef cattle 4.4 million, dairy cattle 4.4 million.  Deer 1.2 million.

NZ estimated people population 3.9 million (March 2002).  Auckland
population 1.1 million (June 2001).

Julie.




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Subject: Re: Talon Question
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*** EOOH ***
From: Gkhd11a@aol.com
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 16:34:14 EDT
Subject: Re: Talon Question
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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In a message dated 6/4/02 8:24:55 AM Central Daylight Time, 
raymond@bittersea.com writes:


> >
> >        Spoilers for anyone who hasn't read the Talon Of The Silver Hawk
> > synopsis at Amazon
> > 
> 
> (http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0002246813/ref%3Dpd%5Fsim%5Fb%5Fdp/
> > 0
> >
> > 26-5860704-1766017)
> >
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >        Ray,
> >
> >        Red Squirrel's "native" name; Kielianapuna, is that name a
> > translation/extension of our lovable, lesser god Killian's name?
> >
> >        Mike
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> 
> No.
> 
> OK, it's time for the once-in-a-while, every-so-often Feist Ran On Why  
> You People Scare Me Sometimes! <g>
> 
> Seriously, there are, after all, only 26 letters in the English 
> alphabet, and after this many books, some names are going to bear 
> passing resemblance to one another.
> 
> Best, R.E.F.
> 
> 
> ----
> 
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
> stupidity.
> 

That remindes me of the time when somebody asked if you got Tsurani from some 
place in Africa that has a similar name.  What was that?

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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue,  4 Jun 2002 21:52:03 +0000
Subject: Re: Tools
From: "Sylvain Guehl" <fenyxkell@demo.xandmail.com>
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> I use a Mac G4 dual processor as a desktop and a Mac Titanium desktop, 
> and I've been using an iPaq PDA, but I think I'm going back to Palm 
> soon, because Windows CE sucks when it comes to syncing with anything 
> but a PC.
> 
> Best, R.E.F.

I own an iPaq (I use to have a Psion).

There are some software to sync an ipaq with a mac, some even
free. Look at this one for instance :

http://www.cewindows.net/reviews/pocketmacpreview.htm

Hope that helps.

Syl



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue,  4 Jun 2002 21:53:32 +0000
Subject: Re: Talon Question
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> Seriously, there are, after all, only 26 letters in the English 
> alphabet, and after this many books, some names are going to bear 
> passing resemblance to one another.
> 
> Best, R.E.F.

Oh my, you're damn right. You should write in chinese :)

Syl



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*** EOOH ***
From: SonOfTheTao@aol.com
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 18:19:10 EDT
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In a message dated 6/4/2002 9:24:54 AM Eastern Daylight Time, 
raymond@bittersea.com writes:


> 
> No.
> 
> OK, it's time for the once-in-a-while, every-so-often Feist Ran On Why  
> You People Scare Me Sometimes! <g>
> 
> Seriously, there are, after all, only 26 letters in the English 
> alphabet, and after this many books, some names are going to bear 
> passing resemblance to one another.
> 
> Best, R.E.F.
> 

       Well in this case, I considered Killian to be the God of Nature, and 
Red Squirrel, coming from a tribe and having to be out in the 
wildernes.....lol nevermind.
       Alas, the answer is no.  Thanks Ray.

       Mike

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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 16:17:06 -0700
Subject: Re: Travelling to Austrailia
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
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On Tuesday, June 4, 2002, at 12:35 PM, Julie Wootten wrote:

>> Chances are 75% he does, given that's the percentage of NZ's population
>> in the city.
>>
>> As there are 30 million sheep in NZ, I find your cows observation odd.
>>
>> Best, R.E.F.
>
> In 1999, there were 46.2 million (down from 70.3 million in 1982)
> Beef cattle 4.4 million, dairy cattle 4.4 million.  Deer 1.2 million.
>
> NZ estimated people population 3.9 million (March 2002).  Auckland
> population 1.1 million (June 2001).
>
> Julie.
>
>
>
>
>

46.2 million sheep?  That is a lot of lamb chops.

So Auckland is not quite 33% of the population.  Hmmm.  Wonder why I 
though it was 3/4ths?

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Subject: Re: Tools
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 16:22:19 -0700
Subject: Re: Tools
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Tuesday, June 4, 2002, at 02:52 PM, Sylvain Guehl wrote:

>> I use a Mac G4 dual processor as a desktop and a Mac Titanium desktop,
>> and I've been using an iPaq PDA, but I think I'm going back to Palm
>> soon, because Windows CE sucks when it comes to syncing with anything
>> but a PC.
>>
>> Best, R.E.F.
>
> I own an iPaq (I use to have a Psion).
>
> There are some software to sync an ipaq with a mac, some even free. 
> Look at this one for instance :
>
> http://www.cewindows.net/reviews/pocketmacpreview.htm
>
> Hope that helps.
>
> Syl
>
>
>
>
Thanks.  I'll take a look.  Last time I went to PocketPC, there was 
nothing.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 16:21:37 -0700
Subject: Re: Talon Question
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 16:21:37 -0700
Subject: Re: Talon Question
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Tuesday, June 4, 2002, at 01:34 PM, Gkhd11a@aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 6/4/02 8:24:55 AM Central Daylight Time, 
> raymond@bittersea.com writes:
>
>
> >
> >        Spoilers for anyone who hasn't read the Talon Of The Silver 
> Hawk
> > synopsis at Amazon
> > 
> (http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0002246813/ref%3Dpd%5Fsim%5Fb%5Fdp/
> > 0
> >
> > 26-5860704-1766017)
> >
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >        Ray,
> >
> >        Red Squirrel's "native" name; Kielianapuna, is that name a
> > translation/extension of our lovable, lesser god Killian's name?
> >
> >        Mike
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> No.
>
> OK, it's time for the once-in-a-while, every-so-often Feist Ran On Why  
> You People Scare Me Sometimes! <g>
>
> Seriously, there are, after all, only 26 letters in the English
> alphabet, and after this many books, some names are going to bear
> passing resemblance to one another.
>
> Best, R.E.F.
>
>
> ----
>
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
> stupidity.
>
>
>
> That remindes me of the time when somebody asked if you got Tsurani 
> from some place in Africa that has a similar name.  What was that?

No, that was the answer.  "Tsurani," is my fancy spelling of the same 
word, Serani, which is a West African tribe.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.

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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 09:26:36 +1000 (EST)
From: "A Irving" <s355156@student.uq.edu.au>
To: feistfans-l@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Murder in LaMut
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Responding To:    =?iso-8859-1?q?R=20Robertson?= <taliesin_21@yahoo.com.au>
Original Date:    Tue, 4 Jun 2002 22:11:50 +1000 (EST)
> 
> I went and picked up my copy of MiL today from Pulp
> Fiction (yay!).  The guy there who runs the store had
> some news that I thought might interest those people
> on the list who live in Brisbane.  Basically he said 
> Pulp Fiction are going to (or going to try to) set
> up a dinner with Ray when he's here on tour.  As I 
> understand it they're going to sell tickets to the 
> dinner - not sure how much, they're not too clear on 
> prices or anything else yet.  He said there'll be more
> 
> details closer to the date.
> 
> I'm assuming you're all familiar with the Pulp Fiction
> 
> bookstore, but if you're not it's in Anzac Square 
> Arcade off Edward Street. :-)
> 
> Rebecca
That would be quite good. Pulp Fiction is a great store for sci-fi/fantasy 
but unfortunately it would be too small for a signing, a dinner is 
interesting if they can get Rays publishers to approve it.



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 16:29:49 -0700
Subject: Re: Tools
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Tuesday, June 4, 2002, at 02:52 PM, Sylvain Guehl wrote:

>> I use a Mac G4 dual processor as a desktop and a Mac Titanium desktop,
>> and I've been using an iPaq PDA, but I think I'm going back to Palm
>> soon, because Windows CE sucks when it comes to syncing with anything
>> but a PC.
>>
>> Best, R.E.F.
>
> I own an iPaq (I use to have a Psion).
>
> There are some software to sync an ipaq with a mac, some even free. 
> Look at this one for instance :
>
> http://www.cewindows.net/reviews/pocketmacpreview.htm
>
> Hope that helps.
>
> Syl
>
>
>
>

Hey  I went and looked and appears to be just the thing I need.  Again, 
thanks!

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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From: "Cameron Duncan" <cduncan@atinera.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Murder in LaMut
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 09:42:32 +1000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Cameron Duncan" <cduncan@atinera.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Murder in LaMut
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 09:42:32 +1000
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of A Irving
> Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 9:27 AM
> To: feistfans-l@cornell.edu
> Subject: Re: Murder in LaMut
> 
> 
> Responding To:    =?iso-8859-1?q?R=20Robertson?= 
> <taliesin_21@yahoo.com.au>
> Original Date:    Tue, 4 Jun 2002 22:11:50 +1000 (EST)
> > 
> > I went and picked up my copy of MiL today from Pulp
> > Fiction (yay!).  The guy there who runs the store had
> > some news that I thought might interest those people
> > on the list who live in Brisbane.  Basically he said 
> > Pulp Fiction are going to (or going to try to) set
> > up a dinner with Ray when he's here on tour.  As I 
> > understand it they're going to sell tickets to the 
> > dinner - not sure how much, they're not too clear on 
> > prices or anything else yet.  He said there'll be more
> > 
> > details closer to the date.
> > 
> > I'm assuming you're all familiar with the Pulp Fiction
> > 
> > bookstore, but if you're not it's in Anzac Square 
> > Arcade off Edward Street. :-)
> > 
> > Rebecca
> That would be quite good. Pulp Fiction is a great store for 
> sci-fi/fantasy 
> but unfortunately it would be too small for a signing, a dinner is 
> interesting if they can get Rays publishers to approve it.
> 
Never been to the store.  Didn't even know it existed actually.
Might have to go for a "browse" at lunchtime today :)
Do they sell new or 2nd hand (or both)?

Cameron
> 



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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Talon Question
References: <65382504-77BC-11D6-96F9-003065A8A644@bittersea.com>
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Date: Tue, 04 Jun 2002 17:56:50 -0600
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Talon Question
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Raymond Feist wrote:
> Seriously, there are, after all, only 26 letters in the English
> alphabet, and after this many books, some names are going to bear
> passing resemblance to one another.

I dunno. It sounds Hawaiian to me, and since they've only got like 14
letters iirc in their language, half the words turn out be long and
unpronouncable like this one :)

Craig J. Ries



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Subject: Re: Travelling to Austrailia
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Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 13:01:33 +1200
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Possibly 75% of your New Zealand worshipper's live in Auckland ? <g>

----- Original Message -----
From: "Raymond Feist" <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 11:17 AM
Subject: Re: Travelling to Austrailia


>
> On Tuesday, June 4, 2002, at 12:35 PM, Julie Wootten wrote:
>
> >> Chances are 75% he does, given that's the percentage of NZ's population
> >> in the city.
> >>
> >> As there are 30 million sheep in NZ, I find your cows observation odd.
> >>
> >> Best, R.E.F.
> >
> > In 1999, there were 46.2 million (down from 70.3 million in 1982)
> > Beef cattle 4.4 million, dairy cattle 4.4 million.  Deer 1.2 million.
> >
> > NZ estimated people population 3.9 million (March 2002).  Auckland
> > population 1.1 million (June 2001).
> >
> > Julie.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> 46.2 million sheep?  That is a lot of lamb chops.
>
> So Auckland is not quite 33% of the population.  Hmmm.  Wonder why I
> though it was 3/4ths?
>
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
>
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
> stupidity.
>
>



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Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 18:20:49 -0700
Subject: Talon
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: fEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Just so those who are worried about such things know,

I finished Talon of the Silver Hawk today.

So, there will be books in the stores when I tour in Sep.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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From: DuncanMacLeod89@aol.com
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 21:33:54 EDT
Subject: Re: Talon
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I have a qeustion Ray, do you have a US publisher yet for it? Or are you not 
going to have one? Or would you rather not talk about for some reason i 
shouldn't be sticking my nose into!? Thanks. :)

-Chance
"We who are truly brave, will never live in fear."-The Rock

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From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
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Subject: RE: Murder in LaMut
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Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 12:06:24 +1000 (GMT+1000)
From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Murder in LaMut
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> > > I went and picked up my copy of MiL today from Pulp
> > > Fiction (yay!).  The guy there who runs the store had
> > > some news that I thought might interest those people
> > > on the list who live in Brisbane.  Basically he said
> > > Pulp Fiction are going to (or going to try to) set
> > > up a dinner with Ray when he's here on tour.  As I
> > > understand it they're going to sell tickets to the
> > > dinner - not sure how much, they're not too clear on
> > > prices or anything else yet.  He said there'll be more
> > > details closer to the date.
> > > I'm assuming you're all familiar with the Pulp Fiction
> > > bookstore, but if you're not it's in Anzac Square
> > > Arcade off Edward Street. :-)
> > That would be quite good. Pulp Fiction is a great store for
> > sci-fi/fantasy
> > but unfortunately it would be too small for a signing, a dinner is
> > interesting if they can get Rays publishers to approve it.
> Never been to the store.  Didn't even know it existed actually.
> Might have to go for a "browse" at lunchtime today :)
> Do they sell new or 2nd hand (or both)?
> Cameron

The live on Edward St (Brisbane) and specialise in sci fi/fantasy/mystery

I have bought there a couple of times (I think i purchased fairie tale
there) but generally I think they're overpriced.

Thanks
Darragh
================================================
msn: iamtheporkfireman@hotmail.com

"Believe or die - thank you O lord for all those
 options" - Bill Hicks.
================================================



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From: R Robertson <taliesin_21@yahoo.com.au>
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 --- Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au> wrote:

> > > That would be quite good. Pulp Fiction is a
> great store for
> > > sci-fi/fantasy
> > > but unfortunately it would be too small for a
> signing, a dinner is
> > > interesting if they can get Rays publishers to
> approve it.
> > Never been to the store.  Didn't even know it
> existed actually.
> > Might have to go for a "browse" at lunchtime today
> :)
> > Do they sell new or 2nd hand (or both)?
> > Cameron
> 
> The live on Edward St (Brisbane) and specialise in
> sci fi/fantasy/mystery
> 
> I have bought there a couple of times (I think i
> purchased fairie tale
> there) but generally I think they're overpriced.
> 
> Thanks
> Darragh
> ===============================================> msn: iamtheporkfireman@hotmail.com
> 
> "Believe or die - thank you O lord for all those
>  options" - Bill Hicks.
> ===============================================

I think it's a great store too.  As Darragh said
it's kind of more expensive than the big chain
stores.  This is because it's an independent store.
Actually I don't think they're that much more
expensive than the chains these days (except for the
hardcover books - even I was a bit surprised how 
much they wanted for MiL).  But the people that work
there are very nice and helpful, and know what they're
talking about.

And yes, they realised they'd be too small to host a
signing for a big name like Ray, which I guess is why
they thought of the dinner (I can't remember where
they said it might be, but somewhere near the store I
think).  I'll certainly post when I hear anything more
about it.  :-)

Rebecca.



http://www.sold.com.au - The Sold.com.au Big Brand Sale
- New PCs, notebooks, digital cameras, phones and more ... Sale ends June 12



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From: Joel Rosenberg <joelr@ellegon.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Talon
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 23:48:33 -0500
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*** EOOH ***
From: Joel Rosenberg <joelr@ellegon.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Talon
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 23:48:33 -0500
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On Tuesday 04 June 2002 08:20 pm, Raymond Feist wrote:
> Just so those who are worried about such things know,
>
> I finished Talon of the Silver Hawk today.
>
> So, there will be books in the stores when I tour in Sep.
>
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
>
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
> stupidity.

Neat.  Well done  -- and just a day before Murder in Lamut officially is 
released.



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Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 22:41:27 -0700 (PDT)
From: Larry Scroggins <falling_98@yahoo.com>
Subject: Amazon.co.uk
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Greetings Feistfans! So, today, I believe, is the official release date
for Murder in La Mut and many of you will be rushing or have already
rushed to your nearest bookseller to plonk down your hard-earned dollar,
lira, pound or whatever to contribute to the Raymond E. Feist Retirement
Fund.  Sadly, being an American sometimes, although rarely, has its
drawbacks.  The US amazon.com site won't let me order MiL, nor will
bn.com.  My thinking here is that it would be a good idea to check out the
UK version of amazon.  Alas, my forays into transatlantic purchases has
met something of a blockade for I cannot get any response to the
www.amazon.co.uk URL.  Is it the same for everyone?  Are any of my fellow
Americans having this very same problem, or am I just proving myself to be
less adept with a browser than I thought?

=====
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Larry Scroggins

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com



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From: Tim Nicholas <tim@nicholas.net.nz>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Travelling to Austrailia
Message-ID: <20020605060504.GA677@nicholas.net.nz>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 18:05:04 +1200
From: Tim Nicholas <tim@nicholas.net.nz>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On Wed, Jun 05, 2002 at 07:35:08AM +1200, Julie Wootten wrote:
> In 1999, there were 46.2 million (down from 70.3 million in 1982)
> Beef cattle 4.4 million, dairy cattle 4.4 million.  Deer 1.2 million.
> 
> NZ estimated people population 3.9 million (March 2002).  Auckland
> population 1.1 million (June 2001).
> 
> Julie.

Hmm... In light of those statistics, I'll happily retract my
statement. I said it on the basis that I notice more cows, know more
dairy farmers, and hear a lot of news about dairy conversions. It's
always possible that I just block out the millions of sheep that I
see while driving around the country. 
Actually, there is probably (again, this is unsubstantiated) a big
proportion of the sheep on very big farms (high country stations and
the like) which major roads don't generally go through. Diary farms
on the other hand can be smaller (while remaining profitable) and
are often in more accessible areas (like the Canterbury plains)
since they need to deliver truck loads of milk each day. I'd be
interested to know what the proportions are between sheep, dairy
and cattle of land use and number of farms, as opposed to number of
animals. 

I should probably shut up now, before I make a bigger fool of
myself :)

Tim


-- 
Tim Nicholas                          ||                      Cilix
Email: tim@nicholas.net.nz            ||       Dunedin, New Zealand
http://tim.nicholas.net.nz/           ||  Cell/SMS: +64 21 113 0399
"Grow up, Larry. You give me too much credit." - Linus Torvalds



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 18:12:01 +1200
From: Tim Nicholas <tim@nicholas.net.nz>
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Works For Me(tm)

On Tue, Jun 04, 2002 at 10:41:27PM -0700, Larry Scroggins wrote:
> Greetings Feistfans! So, today, I believe, is the official release date
> for Murder in La Mut and many of you will be rushing or have already
> rushed to your nearest bookseller to plonk down your hard-earned dollar,
> lira, pound or whatever to contribute to the Raymond E. Feist Retirement
> Fund.  Sadly, being an American sometimes, although rarely, has its
> drawbacks.  The US amazon.com site won't let me order MiL, nor will
> bn.com.  My thinking here is that it would be a good idea to check out the
> UK version of amazon.  Alas, my forays into transatlantic purchases has
> met something of a blockade for I cannot get any response to the
> www.amazon.co.uk URL.  Is it the same for everyone?  Are any of my fellow
> Americans having this very same problem, or am I just proving myself to be
> less adept with a browser than I thought?
> 
> =====
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Larry Scroggins
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
> http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com
> 
> 

-- 
Tim Nicholas                          ||                      Cilix
Email: tim@nicholas.net.nz            ||       Dunedin, New Zealand
http://tim.nicholas.net.nz/           ||  Cell/SMS: +64 21 113 0399
"Grow up, Larry. You give me too much credit." - Linus Torvalds



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Subject: RE: Amazon.co.uk
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 16:23:21 +1000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "A Irving" <s355156@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Amazon.co.uk
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 16:23:21 +1000
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I do not have any trouble going to http://amazon.co.uk 
Here is a direct link for talon if you want it,
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0002246813/nightauthofantan
It may have been a temporary problem with the site, or be a problem on
your ISP's side somewhere. 

CIAO,
      Aaron

http://www.hallofworlds.net/kerr/main.php
http://www.nightshadow.co.uk 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]
> On Behalf Of Larry Scroggins
> Sent: Wednesday, 5 June 2002 3:41 PM
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Subject: Amazon.co.uk
> 
> Greetings Feistfans! So, today, I believe, is the official release date
> for Murder in La Mut and many of you will be rushing or have already
> rushed to your nearest bookseller to plonk down your hard-earned dollar,
> lira, pound or whatever to contribute to the Raymond E. Feist Retirement
> Fund.  Sadly, being an American sometimes, although rarely, has its
> drawbacks.  The US amazon.com site won't let me order MiL, nor will
> bn.com.  My thinking here is that it would be a good idea to check out the
> UK version of amazon.  Alas, my forays into transatlantic purchases has
> met something of a blockade for I cannot get any response to the
> www.amazon.co.uk URL.  Is it the same for everyone?  Are any of my fellow
> Americans having this very same problem, or am I just proving myself to be
> less adept with a browser than I thought?
> 
> =====
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Larry Scroggins
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
> http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com



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Subject: Re: Talon
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 15:18:03 +0800
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From: "Western Rhythm" <info@westernrhythm.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Talon
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 15:18:03 +0800
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Neat :)

are you happy with it Mr Feist?

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Raymond Feist" <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: <fEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 9:20 AM
Subject: Talon


> Just so those who are worried about such things know,
> 
> I finished Talon of the Silver Hawk today.
> 
> So, there will be books in the stores when I tour in Sep.
> 
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
> 
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
> stupidity.



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References: <7889D1C3-7822-11D6-8068-003065A8A644@bittersea.com>
Subject: Re: Talon
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Andrew Scott" <a.sc0tt@attbi.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Talon
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 00:13:15 -0700
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Raymond Feist" <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: <fEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, June 04, 2002 6:20 PM
Subject: Talon


> Just so those who are worried about such things know,
>
> I finished Talon of the Silver Hawk today.
>
> So, there will be books in the stores when I tour in Sep.
>
> Best, R.E.F.
>

Just out of curiosity, how long does it usually take between the time you
finish a first draft and the final product is ready for publication?

-Andrew Scott



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 00:59:07 -0700 (PDT)
From: Nathan <nathan@irish4ever.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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I read somewhere that hardcover editions are quickly out of stock. Do
you know if "Murder in LaMut" will be available at Amazon.co.uk in
October (or November)?

Father Nathan



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> Hey  I went and looked and appears to be just the thing I need.  Again, 
> thanks!
> 
> Best, R.E.F.

You're welcome.

Don't forget me in the acknowledgment part of your next book and we're done :)

Syl



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 01:23:18 -0700
Subject: Re: Talon
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On Tuesday, June 4, 2002, at 06:33 PM, DuncanMacLeod89@aol.com wrote:

> I have a qeustion Ray, do you have a US publisher yet for it? Or are 
> you not going to have one? Or would you rather not talk about for some 
> reason i shouldn't be sticking my nose into!? Thanks. :)
>
> -Chance
> "We who are truly brave, will never live in fear."-The Rock
>
>
>

Talon will be published by Avon in the US in Spring of next year.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.

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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 01:26:39 -0700
Subject: Re: Talon
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
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On Wednesday, June 5, 2002, at 12:13 AM, Andrew Scott wrote:

> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Raymond Feist" <raymond@bittersea.com>
> To: <fEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> Sent: Tuesday, June 04, 2002 6:20 PM
> Subject: Talon
>
>
>> Just so those who are worried about such things know,
>>
>> I finished Talon of the Silver Hawk today.
>>
>> So, there will be books in the stores when I tour in Sep.
>>
>> Best, R.E.F.
>>
>
> Just out of curiosity, how long does it usually take between the time 
> you
> finish a first draft and the final product is ready for publication?
>
>

This is called a "crash," i.e. emergency overdrive.  The book had to be 
in production next Monday (June 10th) for it to be in Australia by 
September, so you're talking 90 days being the shortest window.  A year 
is good because of advanced planning on promotion, publicity, 
advertising, etc.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 01:25:29 -0700
Subject: Re: Talon
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
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On Wednesday, June 5, 2002, at 12:18 AM, Western Rhythm wrote:

> Neat :)
>
> are you happy with it Mr Feist?
>

I'm never "happy" with a book when I turn it in, because of all the 
things I thought were going to be better than they turned out to be.  
Common complaint among authors.

I think it's a pretty good book, though.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Subject: Ray's Books French edition
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Date: Wed,  5 Jun 2002 08:30:30 +0000
Subject: Ray's Books French edition
From: "Sylvain Guehl" <fenyxkell@demo.xandmail.com>
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Hello all.

A small info I forgot to provide to the list. I got it a couple of months ago.

Since there hadn't been any new book from Ray coming out in french
translation since ADAS and SOE one year ago (and it's quite anoying
cause my little brother is still waiting to read the end of the empire
trilogy) and since there hadn't been any update on the website of the
french editor La Reine Noire, I sent a mail to the french translator
of the books, Antoine Ribes.

He told me, very politely, that currently there was a trouble of money
between them (the translators (who have made a GREAT job)) and the
publishers. And it seems it's not going to resolve anytime soon. For
now, others editors are publishing the books already translated (like
"J'ai Lu" who is publishing "Pug l'apprenti")

I know the info doesn't interesest many of you since I often feel like
I'm the only frenchman of the list even if I'm not (come on french
lads, support me :) but I told myself that maybe John from Crydee may
be interested about this since he's gathering any small piece of info
he can in his site, and maybe Ray himself might think it's nice to
know his french fans (for the ones who prefere reading his books in
french) have been quite upset for the last twelve months about this.

Anyway, I for one still read all the stuff in the original words that
Ray wrote, and like the italians say : "Tradutore, traditore" (to
translate is to betray) (traduire c'est trahir (in french))

Syl



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*** EOOH ***
From: "Donal K. Fellows" <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Rays reasons for writing
Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 09:52:49 +0100
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"Milamber" <milamber_aka_pug@hotmail.com>
> I think I read recently that your priority for continuing to write
> is to pay your bills (paraphrasing).

Remember, bills tend to expand to consume income...

Donal.
-- 
Donal K. Fellows, Department of Computer Science, University of Manchester, UK.
(work) fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk     Tel: +44-161-275-6137  (preferred email addr.)
(home) donal@ugglan.demon.co.uk  Tel: +44-1274-401017   Mobile: +44-7957-298955
http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~fellowsd/  (Don't quote my .sig; I've seen it before!)



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From: Dominic.Wynn@blackwell.co.uk
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: To start with - an apology
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 09:55:26 +0100 
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*Cough*

My first email, and unfortunately it's an apology (good start). I subscribed
to the Feist list last week, and after a day or two went off on holiday to
avoid sitting at home watching the Queen's Golden Jubilee. I decided to
leave an Out of Office assistant on. 

Dur. 

So to all those who were kind enough to send me an email noting that I had,
thank you. To all those who were good enough not to flame me, again thank
you. And I promise I won't ever do it again. <bad boy>

Dom


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Subject: Re:To start with - an apology
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> So to all those who were kind enough to send me an email noting that I had,
> thank you. To all those who were good enough not to flame me, again thank
> you. And I promise I won't ever do it again. <bad boy>
> 
> Dom

Welcome Dom :)

You're lucky your assistant was replying to each people in particular
and not sending the reply back to the whole list again otherwise...

Well, you wouldn't have been flamed, but you would have been kicked
out, for sure :)

Syl



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-------Original Message-------
>From: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Date: 05 June 2002 10:11:35
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: Re: Rays reasons for writing
>
>"Milamber" <milamber_aka_pug@hotmail.com>
>> I think I read recently that your priority for continuing to write
>> is to pay your bills (paraphrasing).
>
>Remember, bills tend to expand to consume income...
>
>Donal.
>-- 
>Donal K. Fellows, Department of Computer Science, University of Manchester,
>UK.
>(work) fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk Tel: +44-161-275-6137 (preferred email addr.)
>(home) donal@ugglan.demon.co.uk Tel: +44-1274-401017 Mobile: +44-7957-298955
>http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~fellowsd/ (Don't quote my .sig; I've seen it
>before!) 
Isn't that the truth! The more I earn the more bills i seem to have :-)
I am taking steps to remedy the situation though. I figure my domestic bills
i.e utilities, food etc should remain constant so I looked elswhere to see
where my
money is going. I have subsequently reduced my alcohol intake, my dining out
expenses and my unecessary purchases. Trouble is I don't seem to have any
unecessary purchases :-)
Regards
Chris
Never explain--your friends do not need it and your enemies will not believe
you anyway. 
Elbert Hubbard

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To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
References: <7889D1C3-7822-11D6-8068-003065A8A644@bittersea.com>
Subject: Re: Talon
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 22:32:09 +1000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James E.Roberts" <jamesr7@hotkey.net.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Talon
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 22:32:09 +1000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Congratulations Ray! =)
I hope for you all sucsess with your new book!

Jamie
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Raymond Feist" <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: <fEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 11:20 AM
Subject: Talon


> Just so those who are worried about such things know,
> 
> I finished Talon of the Silver Hawk today.
> 
> So, there will be books in the stores when I tour in Sep.
> 
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
> 
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
> stupidity.
> 



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Subject: Re: Travelling to Austrailia
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From: "Iain" <iainp@btinternet.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Travelling to Austrailia
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 13:45:21 +0100
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I'm going to be going to Australia for 2 - 3 weeks at the end of this year.
It will be my first trip out of the UK (brave little me.)  The reason I'm
going is because one of my friends live there and he has been telling me how
great it is so I'm going over to try and get some sort of feel of what it is
like before I decide if I want to move out there too (I don't like the UK
and I need sunshine, in fact decent day light would be a plus).  My problem
is how to get my self into the country permanently but I'll sort that out
after the holiday.

I'm going to be staying in Geelong and will no doubt take a few trips out to
Melbourne as well.  If you like and if I remember I'll let you know how I
get on.


Iain.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Terri Lyn Layman" <terrilyn@fullnet.com>
To: "FeistList (E-mail)" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Sunday, June 02, 2002 7:33 AM
Subject: OT: Travelling to Austrailia


> First off, this is not anything that can be done shortly... I'm on a
> two-three year timetable for this adventure.
>
> However...
>
> I've never travelled outside of the continent (and my one big
> "international" vacation was a semi-weekend in Canada and I was staying with
> some friends in Buffalo, NY... )
>
> SO....
>
> I know there's like tons of paperwork to be done with travelling overseas
> and such, and that there's sometimes a LOT of time involved in this.  I also
> realize that Austrailia is about the size of Texas and California combined
> at least and very diverse in areas.... so, I'm at a loss as to the
> Sydney/Perth/Melbourne choice.
>
> I know that this is WAY in advance, but I'm trying to start planning this
> and budgeting/saving for this trip now... so, I'm looking for
> advice/0ptions, knowlege of exactly HOW does one travel overseas...
>
> I feel a little dumb.  I swear it's not the blond hair!  I'm just trying to
> get a handle on how to go about planning this.  My last vacation was to a
> state that I'd lived in, so I already KNEW what to do!  (And yes, I travel
> too often for thought sometimes.  I live for vacations and indulge in the
> "long weekend" as frequently as possible.  Went to the race last month in
> Indy, camping with some friends this month, and off to Louisville for the
> 4th of july with some other friends... I really need my own plane or
> something!)
>
> Anyhow, any help that the travellers or Aussies can give is helpful.
>
> Thanks!
> -TerriLyn
>



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Subject: Re: Rays reasons for writing
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Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 14:48:28 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: Andrea J Chee <andrea@bloodaxe.com>
Subject: Re: Rays reasons for writing
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In article <3CFDE782.000001.22813@j4a8e8>, Milamber
<milamber_aka_pug@hotmail.com> writes

> I have subsequently reduced my alcohol intake, my dining out
>expenses and my unecessary purchases. Trouble is I don't seem to have any
>unecessary purchases :-)
>

I suspect that's true for most people. My income has trebled in 3 years,
but I *still* don't have unnecessary purchases. Although it has to be
said that my justification for the kit car I'm currently looking for is
pretty flimsy.

- ANDREA

-- 
^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^
                  ANDROMEDA - Internet Goddess
<andrea@bloodaxe.com>                    http://www.bloodaxe.com/
Bloodaxe's History Links:   http://www.geocities.com/Athens/5055/
The Loony Bin Archive:               http://www.theloonies.co.uk/



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Subject: Re: Travelling to Austrailia
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From: "Western Rhythm" <info@westernrhythm.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Travelling to Austrailia
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 23:11:14 +0800
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If your coming to Australia for sunshine, skip Sydney and Melbourne, they
are usually wet. Well thats a generalisation compared to some places but
Melbourne usually is anyway compared to the rest of aus. Perth and Brisbane
I think are the places to come to, I think they are the best cities in
Australia. I live in Perth, and I think its the best city in the world. :)
The weather is great, the people are great, and the lifestyle is something
you won't find anywhere else.
Have to come and see :)



----- Original Message -----
From: "Iain" <iainp@btinternet.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 8:45 PM
Subject: Re: Travelling to Austrailia


> I'm going to be going to Australia for 2 - 3 weeks at the end of this year.
> It will be my first trip out of the UK (brave little me.)  The reason I'm
> going is because one of my friends live there and he has been telling me how
> great it is so I'm going over to try and get some sort of feel of what it is
> like before I decide if I want to move out there too (I don't like the UK
> and I need sunshine, in fact decent day light would be a plus).  My problem
> is how to get my self into the country permanently but I'll sort that out
> after the holiday.
>
> I'm going to be staying in Geelong and will no doubt take a few trips out to
> Melbourne as well.  If you like and if I remember I'll let you know how I
> get on.
>
>
> Iain.
>

> >



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From: VinMac3l6@aol.com
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In a message dated 6/5/2002 1:48:49 AM Eastern Daylight Time, 
falling_98@yahoo.com writes:


> Greetings Feistfans! So, today, I believe, is the official release date
> for Murder in La Mut and many of you will be rushing or have already
> rushed to your nearest bookseller to plonk down your hard-earned dollar,
> lira, pound or whatever to contribute to the Raymond E. Feist Retirement
> Fund.  Sadly, being an American sometimes, although rarely, has its
> drawbacks.  The US amazon.com site won't let me order MiL, nor will
> bn.com.  My thinking here is that it would be a good idea to check out the
> UK version of amazon.  Alas, my forays into transatlantic purchases has
> met something of a blockade for I cannot get any response to the
> www.amazon.co.uk URL.  Is it the same for everyone?  Are any of my fellow
> Americans having this very same problem, or am I just proving myself to be
> less adept with a browser than I thought?
> 
> 

Well I for one signed up with Amazon.uk, and live in the state of Maryland. 
It wussent easy, they kept trying to call my zip code a postal code...I 
yelled at it and eventually got it to register me. 

As for my advice, try using a different browser to pull up the site. (Opera 
or Netscape maybe?) 

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From: Dominic.Wynn@blackwell.co.uk
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sylvain Guehl [mailto:fenyxkell@demo.xandmail.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 10:14 AM
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Subject: Re:To start with - an apology

> 
> Welcome Dom :)

Cheers...
 
> You're lucky your assistant was replying to each people in 
> particular and not sending the reply back to the whole list 
> again otherwise...

When I saw the initial responses my first thought was 'ohhh crap'. Once I
twigged that I was only sending to individuals my heart rate did
decelerate...

> Well, you wouldn't have been flamed, but you would have been 
> kicked out, for sure :)

Well that's ok then :¬)

D


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Well if it helps, you are not the only French edition reader. (I am half 
French). I am glad to know that I can at least pick up the first series in 
French, and Will <G>. Maybe by the time I am done, the problem will be 
resolved.

Laurent (AKA, Larry

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On Wed,  5 Jun 2002 08:30:30  
 Sylvain Guehl wrote in despair:
>
>>
>I know the info doesn't interesest many of you since I often feel like I'm the only frenchman of the list even if I'm not (come on french lads, support me :) but I told myself that maybe John from Crydee may be interested about this since he's gathering any small piece of info he can in his site, and maybe Ray himself might think it's nice to know his french fans (for the ones who prefere reading his books in french) have been quite upset for the last twelve months about this. 
>
>Anyway, I for one still read all the stuff in the original words that Ray wrote, and like the italians say : "Tradutore, traditore" (to translate is to betray) (traduire c'est trahir (in french))
>

Salut Sylvain,

You're not alone out there, though I'm from Quebec, not France. I
never read any Feist books in french but this information is
interesting to me. I pushed a friend to read Feist, and she's only
reading in french. She's already complaining that there was not enough
books translated :-)

Guess it's n ot going to change soon :-)

Paddyjack


_______________________________________________________
WIN a first class trip to Hawaii.  Live like the King of Rock and Roll
on the big Island. Enter Now!
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Salut PaddyJack and Larry

If you want to know the french titles to look for when looking for a
book of Ray in french, you can have a look at my website :

http://fenyx.kell.free.fr

Go in the "Mots" page and then click on "Raymond Elias Feist"

Syl



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*** EOOH ***
From: DuncanMacLeod89@aol.com
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 15:40:58 EDT
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In a message dated 6/5/2002 1:31:39 AM Pacific Standard Time, 
raymond@bittersea.com writes:


> Talon will be published by Avon in the US in Spring of next year.
> 
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
> 
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
> stupidity.
> 
> 
> 

Oh kick ass! Can't wait. Thanks.
-Chance
"We who are truly brave, will never live in fear."-The Rock

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From: "Michael Gibson" <mike@gibbyco.freeserve.co.uk>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Tools
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 21:01:28 +0100
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From: "Michael Gibson" <mike@gibbyco.freeserve.co.uk>
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> >> I use a Mac G4 dual processor as a desktop and a Mac Titanium desktop,
> >> and I've been using an iPaq PDA, but I think I'm going back to Palm
> >> soon, because Windows CE sucks when it comes to syncing with anything
> >> but a PC.
> >>
> >> Best, R.E.F.
> >
> > I own an iPaq (I use to have a Psion).
> >
> > There are some software to sync an ipaq with a mac, some even free.
> > Look at this one for instance :
> >
> > http://www.cewindows.net/reviews/pocketmacpreview.htm
> >
> > Hope that helps.
> >
> > Syl
> >
> >
> >
> Thanks.  I'll take a look.  Last time I went to PocketPC, there was
> nothing.

I hear that an OSX version of the Pilot Desktop has just been finished, or is
soon to be.  I'm a Palm user - I've been using one of the old Pilots for the
last 5 or 6 years, so I guess I'm quite keen on them - I love the way you can
put in a pair of batteries, and they'll be good for 3 months or so ;).  My only
gripe is the lack of a reasonable text editor - does anyone know of one for Palm
OS 1?

Mike,
Gibfish of the West

Non Timetis Messor



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From: Gkhd11a@aol.com
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 19:25:57 EDT
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In a message dated 6/5/02 2:56:01 PM Central Daylight Time, 
DuncanMacLeod89@aol.com writes:


> In a message dated 6/5/2002 1:31:39 AM Pacific Standard Time, 
> raymond@bittersea.com writes:
> 
> 
> >> Talon will be published by Avon in the US in Spring of next year.
>> 
>> Best, R.E.F.
>> ----
>> 
>> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
>> stupidity.
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> 

Why don't you just put down a little more money and buy it from Amazon UK?

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Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 19:51:09 EDT
Subject: Re: Betrayal at Krondor music
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From: Smoking88@aol.com
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 19:51:09 EDT
Subject: Re: Betrayal at Krondor music
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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anyone know wher i could get the game?
thanks joe

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In a message dated 6/5/2002 4:51:07 PM Pacific Standard Time, Gkhd11a@aol.com 
writes:


> Why don't you just put down a little more money and buy it from Amazon UK?

Well, because I am younger then probably 99% of everybody on here and I 
actually asked for my father. So I dunno. I might, I just don't have all that 
much money. But I'm also not finished reading all of his books so I really 
don't have to buy it immediatly. So, I could wait, or if I finish them then 
maybe I will buy it. I dunno. I mean if I wait till christmas I might as well 
wait for spring. Or if I get a summer job maybe I'll buy it. I dunno dude.
-Chance
"We who are truly brave, will never live in fear."-The Rock

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Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 20:06:09 EDT
Subject: Re: Betrayal at Krondor music
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From: JEEPMONSTER69@aol.com
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 20:06:09 EDT
Subject: Re: Betrayal at Krondor music
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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In a message dated 6/5/2002 8:05:11 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
Smoking88@aol.com writes:


> anyone know wher i could get the game? 
> 

You can order it off of the internet, or you could look in stores- some used 
game places will stil have it.

                                                 Peace,
                                                       Matt
"Lets Roll."- Todd Beamer
USA, Muthafacko!

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Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 20:49:39 EDT
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From: VinMac3l6@aol.com
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 20:49:39 EDT
Subject: Re: Betrayal at Krondor music
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The game Betrayal At Krondor has become freeware. You can download it for 
free on the internet. Just do a search of it on Lycos or Yahoo and im sure 
you can eventually find it. Beware though, the music and SFX on the 
downloaded game is of poor quality, I actually went to an auction site and 
got the cd version rather cheap.

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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: Al Burrell <al.burl@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Betrayal at Krondor music
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 01:50:56 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: Al Burrell <al.burl@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Betrayal at Krondor music
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Betrayal at Krondor was made into a free game. I think you can still 
download it from sierra.com, but I'm not sure.

Al

At 20:06 05/06/2002 -0400, JEEPMONSTER69@aol.com wrote:
>In a message dated 6/5/2002 8:05:11 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
>Smoking88@aol.com writes:
>
>
>>anyone know wher i could get the game?
>>thanks joe
>
>
>You can order it off of the internet, or you could look in stores- some 
>used game places will stil have it.
>
>                                                 Peace,
>                                                       Matt
>"Lets Roll."- Todd Beamer
>USA, Muthafacko!
>



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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Betrayal at Krondor music
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From: "Amos Trask" <amostrask74@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Betrayal at Krondor music
Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 20:35:54 -0500
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it comes free in the book



>From: Smoking88@aol.com
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: Re: Betrayal at Krondor music
>Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 19:51:09 EDT
>
>anyone know wher i could get the game?
>thanks joe




Amos

"Ah Arutha you take all the fun out of life."


_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx



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From: "Jeff Weidemann" <jeff@pronto.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Travelling to Austrailia
Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 12:25:51 +1000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Jeff Weidemann" <jeff@pronto.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Travelling to Austrailia
Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 12:25:51 +1000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

You are so mis-informed..... FACT: Its rains more in Sydney than
Melbourne. FACT: Melbourne has more overcast days than Sydney, not wet
ones. FACT: Its is on average 1.5c warmer in Sydney.... I could go on,
but I may be boring some... 

Every city on the planet has something to offer, so sample it and see.
Check out the web sites, that a fellow list member posted in this thread
etc etc.

Regards
Jeff W.


-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Western Rhythm
>Sent: Thursday, 6 June 2002 1:11 AM
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: Re: Travelling to Austrailia
>
>
>If your coming to Australia for sunshine, skip Sydney and Melbourne,
>they are usually wet. Well thats a generalisation compared to some
>places but Melbourne usually is anyway compared to the rest of aus.
>Perth and Brisbane I think are the places to come to, I think they are
>the best cities in Australia. I live in Perth, and I think its the best
>city in the world. :) The weather is great, the people are great, and
>the lifestyle is something you won't find anywhere else. Have to come
>and see :)
>
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Iain" <iainp@btinternet.com>
>To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
>Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 8:45 PM
>Subject: Re: Travelling to Austrailia
>
>
>> I'm going to be going to Australia for 2 - 3 weeks at the end of this year.
>> It will be my first trip out of the UK (brave little me.)  The reason 
>> I'm going is because one of my friends live there and he has been 
>> telling me how
>> great it is so I'm going over to try and get some sort of feel of what
>> it is
>> like before I decide if I want to move out there too (I don't like the
>> UK and I need sunshine, in fact decent day light would be a plus).  My problem
>> is how to get my self into the country permanently but I'll sort that 
>> out after the holiday.
>>
>> I'm going to be staying in Geelong and will no doubt take a few trips 
>> out to
>> Melbourne as well.  If you like and if I remember I'll let you know 
>> how I get on.
>>
>>
>> Iain.
>>
>> >

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Subject: Re: Betrayal at Krondor music
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From: Adam012882@cs.com
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 22:34:55 EDT
Subject: Re: Betrayal at Krondor music
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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go to abandongames.com and search for it. You should find it ther.

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To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
References: <20020605054127.94338.qmail@web10003.mail.yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Amazon.co.uk
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*** EOOH ***
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From: "Wendy Smith" <wendysmith@peoplepc.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Amazon.co.uk
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 23:13:50 -0500
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works for me too.  I ordered MiL May 13th, but it hasn't been shipped yet.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry Scroggins" <falling_98@yahoo.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 12:41 AM
Subject: Amazon.co.uk


> Greetings Feistfans! So, today, I believe, is the official release date
> for Murder in La Mut and many of you will be rushing or have already
> rushed to your nearest bookseller to plonk down your hard-earned dollar,
> lira, pound or whatever to contribute to the Raymond E. Feist Retirement
> Fund.  Sadly, being an American sometimes, although rarely, has its
> drawbacks.  The US amazon.com site won't let me order MiL, nor will
> bn.com.  My thinking here is that it would be a good idea to check out the
> UK version of amazon.  Alas, my forays into transatlantic purchases has
> met something of a blockade for I cannot get any response to the
> www.amazon.co.uk URL.  Is it the same for everyone?  Are any of my fellow
> Americans having this very same problem, or am I just proving myself to be
> less adept with a browser than I thought?
>
> =====
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Larry Scroggins
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
> http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com
>
>



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From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Travelling to Austrailia
Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 12:55:41 +0800
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*** EOOH ***
From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Travelling to Austrailia
Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 12:55:41 +0800
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Kind of ironically after me saying Perth has good weather most of the
year we had our wettest June day ever.

Dave

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu 
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Jeff Weidemann
> Sent: Thursday, 6 June 2002 10:26 AM
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Subject: RE: Travelling to Austrailia
> 
> 
> You are so mis-informed..... FACT: Its rains more in Sydney than
> Melbourne. FACT: Melbourne has more overcast days than Sydney, not wet
> ones. FACT: Its is on average 1.5c warmer in Sydney.... I could go on,
> but I may be boring some... 
> 
> Every city on the planet has something to offer, so sample it and see.
> Check out the web sites, that a fellow list member posted in 
> this thread
> etc etc.
> 
> Regards
> Jeff W.
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Western Rhythm
> Sent: Thursday, 6 June 2002 1:11 AM
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Subject: Re: Travelling to Austrailia
> 
> 
> If your coming to Australia for sunshine, skip Sydney and Melbourne,
> they are usually wet. Well thats a generalisation compared to some
> places but Melbourne usually is anyway compared to the rest of aus.
> Perth and Brisbane I think are the places to come to, I think they are
> the best cities in Australia. I live in Perth, and I think 
> its the best
> city in the world. :) The weather is great, the people are great, and
> the lifestyle is something you won't find anywhere else. Have to come
> and see :)
> 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Iain" <iainp@btinternet.com>
> To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 8:45 PM
> Subject: Re: Travelling to Austrailia
> 
> 
> > I'm going to be going to Australia for 2 - 3 weeks at the 
> end of this
> year.
> > It will be my first trip out of the UK (brave little me.)  
> The reason 
> > I'm going is because one of my friends live there and he has been 
> > telling me
> how
> > great it is so I'm going over to try and get some sort of 
> feel of what
> 
> > it
> is
> > like before I decide if I want to move out there too (I 
> don't like the
> 
> > UK and I need sunshine, in fact decent day light would be a 
> plus).  My
> problem
> > is how to get my self into the country permanently but I'll 
> sort that 
> > out after the holiday.
> >
> > I'm going to be staying in Geelong and will no doubt take a 
> few trips 
> > out
> to
> > Melbourne as well.  If you like and if I remember I'll let you know 
> > how I get on.
> >
> >
> > Iain.
> >
> 
> > >
> 



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Subject: RE: Rays reasons for writing
Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 12:06:47 +0100 
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*** EOOH ***
From: Dominic.Wynn@blackwell.co.uk
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: RE: Rays reasons for writing
Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 12:06:47 +0100 
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


-----Original Message-----
From: Raymond Feist [mailto:raymond@bittersea.com]
Sent: Saturday, June 01, 2002 5:01 PM
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Rays reasons for writing

> It's too esoteric for the general public. Let's say right now the market
> is very different than it was 22 years ago when I broke in. 
> For one thing, Magician sold about 34% of initial sales through
> independent booksellers. I'm down to about 13% now. 
> Many chains that used to compete have merged, been bought out. That's just
> two examples. 


<I've put in the indents so this may format oddly. I'm still getting used to
using Outlook as an effective Newsreader>

Plus also, while the bookchains have gradually taken over the retailing
side, publishers have also spent their time buying up lesser rivals. Which
means that publishers want to concentrate on larger print runs, and reduce
piffling costs like Author Royalties and print costs. As a result yr average
'general' publisher rep (who sells titles into bookchains and shops) now is
wielding a catalogue that puts the Library of Congress to shame. The ability
of those reps to then aggressively sell individual titles that don't have
the title 'Harry Potter & the...' or are not penned by Messrs Smith, Clancy
et all is reduced: the average bookseller's eyes start to glaze over after
the 347th title is trotted out....

Dom
(A bookseller just putting the otherside of the argument across :¬)
  


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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu, <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
From: Al Burrell <al.burl@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Amazon.co.uk
In-Reply-To: <006901c20d10$917384e0$4e769c3f@computer>
References: <20020605054127.94338.qmail@web10003.mail.yahoo.com>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 17:22:07 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu, <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
From: Al Burrell <al.burl@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Amazon.co.uk
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Just got an e-mail from amazon.co.uk saying that it's now been dispatched.

Al

At 23:13 05/06/2002 -0500, Wendy Smith wrote:
>works for me too.  I ordered MiL May 13th, but it hasn't been shipped yet.
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Larry Scroggins" <falling_98@yahoo.com>
>To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
>Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 12:41 AM
>Subject: Amazon.co.uk
>
>
> > Greetings Feistfans! So, today, I believe, is the official release date
> > for Murder in La Mut and many of you will be rushing or have already
> > rushed to your nearest bookseller to plonk down your hard-earned dollar,
> > lira, pound or whatever to contribute to the Raymond E. Feist Retirement
> > Fund.  Sadly, being an American sometimes, although rarely, has its
> > drawbacks.  The US amazon.com site won't let me order MiL, nor will
> > bn.com.  My thinking here is that it would be a good idea to check out the
> > UK version of amazon.  Alas, my forays into transatlantic purchases has
> > met something of a blockade for I cannot get any response to the
> > www.amazon.co.uk URL.  Is it the same for everyone?  Are any of my fellow
> > Americans having this very same problem, or am I just proving myself to be
> > less adept with a browser than I thought?
> >
> > =====
> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Larry Scroggins
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
> > http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com
> >
> >



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From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Amazon.co.uk
Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 03:01:18 +0800
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*** EOOH ***
From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Amazon.co.uk
Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 03:01:18 +0800
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I've been keeping an eye out for it here in Perth and it hasn't arisen
yet. All these other people over East keep talking about finding it days
before release but I can't find it at A&R, Dymocks, Target, K-Mart none
of the places I'd expect to have it by now.

Dave

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu 
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Rob Kolech
> Sent: Friday, 7 June 2002 2:55 AM
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Subject: RE: Amazon.co.uk
> 
> 
> That's odd.  When I go to the Amazon page it still says that 
> the book has
> not been released yet.  I guess they probably forgot to 
> update the page.  I
> will go and order it from UK as well, who know when I will 
> get MiL in a
> Canadian bookstore [probably never].
> 
> Rob Kolech
> **********
> "no quote" - Rob Kolech
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Al Burrell
> Sent: June 6, 2002 12:22 PM
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu; FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Subject: Re: Amazon.co.uk
> 
> 
> Just got an e-mail from amazon.co.uk saying that it's now 
> been dispatched.
> 
> Al
> 



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*** EOOH ***
From: RBlackley@aol.com
Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 14:35:00 EDT
Subject: hi
To: feistfans-l@cornell.edu
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Hi, sorry if I caused an issue something went wrong with aol and i lost 
e-mail for about a week,  sorry if theis messed up anything on the list

Richard

-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
"We don't want to go back to tomorrow, we want to go forward."
Dan Quayle
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From: "Rob Kolech" <feistfan@rogers.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Amazon.co.uk
Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 14:54:58 -0400
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Rob Kolech" <feistfan@rogers.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Amazon.co.uk
Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 14:54:58 -0400
X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at fep03-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com from [24.102.215.75] using ID <feistfan@rogers.com> at Thu, 6 Jun 2002 14:55:04 -0400
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That's odd.  When I go to the Amazon page it still says that the book has
not been released yet.  I guess they probably forgot to update the page.  I
will go and order it from UK as well, who know when I will get MiL in a
Canadian bookstore [probably never].

Rob Kolech
**********
"no quote" - Rob Kolech


-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Al Burrell
>Sent: June 6, 2002 12:22 PM
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu; FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: Re: Amazon.co.uk
>
>
>Just got an e-mail from amazon.co.uk saying that it's now been dispatched.
>
>Al
>


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Subject: RiftMUSH
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu,  6 Jun 2002 21:23:42 +0000
Subject: RiftMUSH
From: "Sylvain Guehl" <fenyxkell@demo.xandmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Is Rift MUSH dead for ever ? It's been a year since I'm waiting for it
to re-open.

Syl



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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 17:33:45 -0400 (EDT)
From: Christopher Adam Manley <amanley@host.ptbo.igs.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Forever is a long time.  But it's not going to open any time soon.  The
list will be the first to hear if ever it did get rolling again.

Chris.

On Thu, 6 Jun 2002, [iso-8859-1] Sylvain Guehl wrote:

> Is Rift MUSH dead for ever ? It's been a year since I'm waiting for it to re-open.
> 
> Syl
> 
> 



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Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 19:07:34 EDT
Subject: Re: RiftMUSH
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*** EOOH ***
From: JEEPMONSTER69@aol.com
Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 19:07:34 EDT
Subject: Re: RiftMUSH
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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In a message dated 6/6/2002 6:41:42 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
amanley@host.ptbo.igs.net writes:


> Forever is a long time.  But it's not going to open any time soon.  The
> list will be the first to hear if ever it did get rolling again.
> 
> Chris.
> 

What exactly is/was RiftMUSH? I remember hearing about it years ago, but I 
never did find out what it was.

                                                             Peace,
                                                                   Matt
"This is not Nam. There are rules here."- Walter Sobchak

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Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 21:27:00 -0400 (EDT)
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From: Christopher Adam Manley <amanley@host.ptbo.igs.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: RiftMUSH
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Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 21:27:00 -0400 (EDT)
From: Christopher Adam Manley <amanley@host.ptbo.igs.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: RiftMUSH
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RiftMUSH was a Multi-User Shared Hallucination based in Midkemia, and was
running on an alt-time line which split off from the books.

A MUSH is a true role playing environment, without a lot of dice or rules.
There are many of them on the net, in all different worlds.  Basically,
everyone creates a character in the world, and interacts with all the
other players, playing out scenes and complex plots, creating an ever
growing game history.  

At it's peak, about 4 years ago, Rift had about 30 players online in the
evenings, which was quite good.  Only a very few MUSHes have a constantly
high number on.

Anyway, Rift eventually slowed, and plans were to re-work the theme.  And
that was two years ago.  

If you're interested in other MUSH info, drop me a line off list.  

Best,
Chris.  

On  Thu, 6 Jun 2002 JEEPMONSTER69@aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 6/6/2002 6:41:42 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
> amanley@host.ptbo.igs.net writes:
> 
> 
> > Forever is a long time.  But it's not going to open any time soon.  The
> > list will be the first to hear if ever it did get rolling again.
> > 
> > Chris.
> > 
> 
> What exactly is/was RiftMUSH? I remember hearing about it years ago, but I 
> never did find out what it was.
> 
>                                                              Peace,
>                                                                    Matt
> "This is not Nam. There are rules here."- Walter Sobchak
> 



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Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 11:56:40 EDT
Subject: Re: RiftMUSH
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Is a MUSH Similar to a MUD(Like Gemstone 3, ect)? A MUD based on the Riftwar 
series would be a nice game indeed. 

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Yes it's like a MUD. RiftMUSH was really a nice one.

Syl

> Is a MUSH Similar to a MUD(Like Gemstone 3, ect)? A MUD based on the 
> Riftwar 
> series would be a nice game indeed. 
> 
> 



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thanks
joe

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it comes free in which book?
joe

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*** EOOH ***
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From: "Amos Trask" <amostrask74@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Betrayal at Krondor music
Date: Sat, 08 Jun 2002 01:09:14 -0500
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Knondor the Betrayal

>From: Smoking88@aol.com
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: Re: Betrayal at Krondor music
>Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 21:25:41 EDT
>
>it comes free in which book?
>joe




Amos

"Ah Arutha you take all the fun out of life."


_________________________________________________________________
Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
http://www.hotmail.com



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From: Smoking88@aol.com
Date: Sat, 8 Jun 2002 20:19:58 EDT
Subject: Re: Betrayal at Krondor music
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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not in all of them apparently.  I bouht krondor the betrayal in harcover, as 
a matter of fact it was my first Feist book and it was how I found out about 
the game, guess I'll have to find it elsewhere.
joe

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From: Ragnar Ekelund Sørensen <ragnares@online.no>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
References: <7889D1C3-7822-11D6-8068-003065A8A644@bittersea.com> <200206042348.33665.joelr@ellegon.com>
Subject: Re: Talon
Date: Sun, 9 Jun 2002 09:17:19 +0200
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*** EOOH ***
From: Ragnar Ekelund Sørensen <ragnares@online.no>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Talon
Date: Sun, 9 Jun 2002 09:17:19 +0200
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Joel Rosenberg" <joelr@ellegon.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 6:48 AM
Subject: Re: Talon

> Neat.  Well done  -- and just a day before Murder in Lamut officially is
> released.
>


What? I wonder where I've been if I've missed that...time to run over to
Amazon.co.uk for a quick check.
.
.
Hey, its actually out, I had no idea, well this is a plesant surprise if
there ever was one! Guess what I've just ordered? :-)

And then Talon in a couple of months, nice work Ray, I've already got a date
with Amazon scheduled for September. :-p

Overall, this is looking to be a good year...except for the fact that I
encountered the infamous unsubscribe event 4 days ago. I knew the activity
on Feistfans didn't get this low even during summer...;-)


Sincerely,
Ragnar E. Sørensen





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From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
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Subject: Re: Betrayal at Krondor music
Date: Sun, 9 Jun 2002 11:17:36 -0500
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Betrayal at Krondor music
Date: Sun, 9 Jun 2002 11:17:36 -0500
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It was a limited run in the American 1st Edition of that book, I am
not sure about the over seas versions, but it certainly was a
limited number here in the states that came with the game.  I think
(and John would probably know) that it was the something like the
first 50,000 prints that came with the CD, since I have the CD
(three copies now for some reason including the very original cuts
that were sold way back when and have the interview on them).  I do
know that some hardcovers sold shortly after no longer had the CD,
and I think I remember looking in them and seeing a second printing
mark (i.e. 10 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 sans 1)

-James

----- Original Message -----
From: <Smoking88@aol.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Saturday, June 08, 2002 7:19 PM
Subject: Re: Betrayal at Krondor music


> not in all of them apparently.  I bouht krondor the betrayal in harcover, as
> a matter of fact it was my first Feist book and it was how I found out about
> the game, guess I'll have to find it elsewhere.
> joe
>



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Subject: Re: Betrayal at Krondor music
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Date: Sun,  9 Jun 2002 19:05:12 +0000
Subject: Re: Betrayal at Krondor music
From: "Sylvain Guehl" <fenyxkell@demo.xandmail.com>
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Here it is. A GREAT site about the game, with ALL you need, maps,
tips, cheats, musics, and links to download both the game and its
patches.

http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Cavern/1947/

Enjoy,

Syl



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Subject: Talon - darn it
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 12:54:13 +1200
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Julie Wootten" <wootten@xtra.co.nz>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Talon - darn it
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 12:54:13 +1200
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Well, I got Whitcoulls in NZ to phone their supplier,
but it's not going to hit the stores until September.  It's
my personal opinion that the scum-sucking bottom
dwellers are delaying release to coincide with Ray's
visit, rather than pulling their finger out to get MiM in
time.

Sooo... has anyone done any research into where the
cheapest online place is to order from (incl postage)?

Julie.




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*** EOOH ***
From: Smoking88@aol.com
Date: Sun, 9 Jun 2002 20:40:20 EDT
Subject: Re: Betrayal at Krondor music
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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thanks, i'll have to find another avenue to get it
joe

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 <003901c20bfe$f02bdb80$b66860cb@shaelynn>
 <20020605060504.GA677@nicholas.net.nz>
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Date: Sun, 9 Jun 2002 18:44:23 -0700
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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: "Raymond E. Feist" <raymond@bittersea.com>
Subject: Re: Talon - darn it
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sun, 9 Jun 2002 18:44:23 -0700
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: "Raymond E. Feist" <raymond@bittersea.com>
Subject: Re: Talon - darn it
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

>Well, I got Whitcoulls in NZ to phone their supplier,
>but it's not going to hit the stores until September.  It's
>my personal opinion that the scum-sucking bottom
>dwellers are delaying release to coincide with Ray's
>visit, rather than pulling their finger out to get MiM in
>time.
>
>Sooo... has anyone done any research into where the
>cheapest online place is to order from (incl postage)?
>
>Julie.

Julie, I'm confused.

Talon's not going to hit any stores until September.

Or is it Murder they claim they're not going to have in until then? 
Because if that's what you heard, that clerk is not getting good 
info.  That books should be in both Oz and LongWhiteCloudLand right 
now.

Best, R.E.F.
-- 


---

Never attribute to malice what can
satisfactorily be explained away by stupidity.



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Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 13:40:00 +1200
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From: Tim Nicholas <tim@nicholas.net.nz>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Talon - darn it
Message-ID: <20020610014000.GA3036@nicholas.net.nz>
References: <9614DBDA-77BC-11D6-96F9-003065A8A644@bittersea.com> <003901c20bfe$f02bdb80$b66860cb@shaelynn> <20020605060504.GA677@nicholas.net.nz> <001301c21019$571de900$842e37d2@shaelynn>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 13:40:00 +1200
From: Tim Nicholas <tim@nicholas.net.nz>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Talon - darn it
User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.28i
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On Mon, Jun 10, 2002 at 12:54:13PM +1200, Julie Wootten wrote:
> Well, I got Whitcoulls in NZ to phone their supplier,
> but it's not going to hit the stores until September.  It's
> my personal opinion that the scum-sucking bottom
> dwellers are delaying release to coincide with Ray's
> visit, rather than pulling their finger out to get MiM in
> time.

Are you refering to Murder, or Talon? I just called The University
Book Shop, here in Dunedin, and they are expecting Murder in any day
now. They are listing it at $39.95. That said last time i asked,
they expected to have it a week ago. 

Talon on the otherhand, isn't due anywhere until sept (as far as i
can tell) so I wouldn't worry about that one either. Ray did only
finnish writing it 6 days ago.

Tim

> 
> Sooo... has anyone done any research into where the
> cheapest online place is to order from (incl postage)?
> 
> Julie.
> 
> 
> 

-- 
Tim Nicholas                          ||                      Cilix
Email: tim@nicholas.net.nz            ||       Dunedin, New Zealand
http://tim.nicholas.net.nz/           ||  Cell/SMS: +64 21 113 0399
"Grow up, Larry. You give me too much credit." - Linus Torvalds



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From: "Julie Wootten" <wootten@xtra.co.nz>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
References: <9614DBDA-77BC-11D6-96F9-003065A8A644@bittersea.com> <003901c20bfe$f02bdb80$b66860cb@shaelynn> <20020605060504.GA677@nicholas.net.nz> <001301c21019$571de900$842e37d2@shaelynn> <p05111b01b929b4afebee@[66.75.147.9]>
Subject: Re: Talon - darn it
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 14:10:10 +1200
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Julie Wootten" <wootten@xtra.co.nz>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Talon - darn it
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 14:10:10 +1200
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I must be getting all confused - because the clerk had nothing
at all on Murder, so I figured I'd gotten them around
the wrong way.  I'll ring a different bookshop.

And for all you kiwis - just remember that this thursday
is Whitcoulls' 50% off all paperbacks sale.

Julie.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Raymond E. Feist" <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Monday, June 10, 2002 1:44 PM
Subject: Re: Talon - darn it


> >Well, I got Whitcoulls in NZ to phone their supplier,
> >but it's not going to hit the stores until September.  It's
> >my personal opinion that the scum-sucking bottom
> >dwellers are delaying release to coincide with Ray's
> >visit, rather than pulling their finger out to get MiM in
> >time.
> >
> >Sooo... has anyone done any research into where the
> >cheapest online place is to order from (incl postage)?
> >
> >Julie.
> 
> Julie, I'm confused.
> 
> Talon's not going to hit any stores until September.
> 
> Or is it Murder they claim they're not going to have in until then? 
> Because if that's what you heard, that clerk is not getting good 
> info.  That books should be in both Oz and LongWhiteCloudLand right 
> now.
> 
> Best, R.E.F.
> -- 
> 
> 
> ---
> 
> Never attribute to malice what can
> satisfactorily be explained away by stupidity.
> 
> 



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From: "Mr Elbion" <elbion3@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re:Betrayal at Krondor music 
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 11:39:01 +0000
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*** EOOH ***
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From: "Mr Elbion" <elbion3@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re:Betrayal at Krondor music 
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 11:39:01 +0000
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Does anyone out there know how I would go about printing the musical score 
for these songs, so I can learn to play them myself?



>From: "Sylvain Guehl" <fenyxkell@demo.xandmail.com>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: Re:Betrayal at Krondor music
>Date: Mon,  3 Jun 2002 23:34:14 +0000
>
>Yep I did mention it long ago :)
>
>What's good in this is that with MID format you can print the musical score 
>and learn to play it your own way (guitar and flute are a wonderful duet 
>for those BAK musics)
>
>Syl
>
>
>
>
> > Sorry if this has been mentioned before, but I've found a site that has 
>a
> > lot of BaK music available to download for anyone who's interested.
> >
> > http://www.queststudios.com/quest/bak.html
> >
> > Al
> >
> >
>
>Fenyx Kell.
>



_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.



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From: "Chris Bolan" <c.bolan@ecu.edu.au>
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Subject: Book Sales Question for Ray
Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 02:26:59 +0800
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Chris Bolan" <c.bolan@ecu.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Book Sales Question for Ray
Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 02:26:59 +0800
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Hi Ray,

I know this topic has been discussed in a roundabout way on the list
already,
but I read an article in NYTimes.com today claiming that used book sales
have
climbed over 100 times what they were in 1995.

I was wondering if you found this impacting on your overall sales or in the
ease
in which you can get a new book published?

Thanks


Chris



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Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 13:49:19 -0700
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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: "Raymond E. Feist" <raymond@bittersea.com>
Subject: Re: Book Sales Question for Ray
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 13:49:19 -0700
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: "Raymond E. Feist" <raymond@bittersea.com>
Subject: Re: Book Sales Question for Ray
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

>Hi Ray,
>
>I know this topic has been discussed in a roundabout way on the list
>already,
>but I read an article in NYTimes.com today claiming that used book sales
>have
>climbed over 100 times what they were in 1995.
>
>I was wondering if you found this impacting on your overall sales or in the
>ease
>in which you can get a new book published?


There's no clear data.  New book publishing is down in all 
categories, except the super bestsellers (Harry Potter, any new Tom 
Clancy, Stephen King, etc.).  There are too many market variables to 
judge how much the rise in used book buying has impacted the new 
market right now.

Best, R.E.F.

-- 


---

Never attribute to malice what can
satisfactorily be explained away by stupidity.



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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Return to Krondor T-shirt
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*** EOOH ***
From: Russell.S.Teeter@kp.org
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Return to Krondor T-shirt
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 16:28:17 -0700
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Does anyone still have their "Return to Krondor" shirts that had 7th level 
on them?  Think there is venue for them on Ebay?

Russell S. Teeter




>
>"James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
>Sent by: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>06/09/2002 09:17 AM
>Please respond to FEISTFANS-L
>
> 
>	 To:     <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
>	 cc: 
>	 Subject:        Re: Betrayal at Krondor music
>
>
>It was a limited run in the American 1st Edition of that book, I am
>not sure about the over seas versions, but it certainly was a
>limited number here in the states that came with the game.  I think
>(and John would probably know) that it was the something like the
>first 50,000 prints that came with the CD, since I have the CD
>(three copies now for some reason including the very original cuts
>that were sold way back when and have the interview on them).  I do
>know that some hardcovers sold shortly after no longer had the CD,
>and I think I remember looking in them and seeing a second printing
>mark (i.e. 10 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 sans 1)
>
>-James
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <Smoking88@aol.com>
>To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
>Sent: Saturday, June 08, 2002 7:19 PM
>Subject: Re: Betrayal at Krondor music
>
>
>> not in all of them apparently.  I bouht krondor the betrayal in
>harcover, as
>> a matter of fact it was my first Feist book and it was how I found
>out about
>> the game, guess I'll have to find it elsewhere.
>> joe

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From: Dan Lorey <dl24@cornell.edu>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 21:01:21 -0400
To: feistfans-l@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Dan Lorey <dl24@cornell.edu>
Subject: ADMIN: Wednesday List Maintenance
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

  Just wanted to pass along to the list a notice from Cornell that the
list server will be going down this Wednesday morning for some maintenance.
In theory, the shutdown will be from 7:00 AM-8:00 AM EDT (1100-1200 GMT),
and any mail sent to the list server will be queued up and handled when 
the server is brought back up. In practice, however, a number of recent
maintenance tasks Cornell's computer folks have done have gone over their
scheduled finishing time. So, on Wednesday morning, please be patient 
if messages don't seem to be propagating quickly, and don't worry if you
haven't received any messages for a while.

  -Dan



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Subject: Question for Mr. Feist
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Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 21:06:54 -0700 (PDT)
From: Ben <volsballa34@yahoo.com>
Subject: Question for Mr. Feist
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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hey,

I was wondering if you have ever thought of making a movie like the
harry potter series or lord of the rings. But on the other hand
sometimes movies can take away from the book. Only the best movies
made after books still dont even equal up to the magic you feel after
reading a great book. So I was just wondering if that thought had ever
crossed your mind. Thanks

Ben



---------------------------------
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Sign-up for Video Highlights of 2002 FIFA World Cup

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From: SonOfTheTao@aol.com
Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 00:48:53 EDT
Subject: Re: Question for Mr. Feist
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

In a message dated 6/11/2002 12:13:31 AM Eastern Daylight Time, 
volsballa34@yahoo.com writes:


> hey,
> 
> I was wondering if you have ever thought of making a movie like the harry 
> potter series or lord of the rings. But on the other hand sometimes movies 
> can take away from the book. Only the best movies made after books still 
> dont even equal up to the magic you feel after reading a great book. So I 
> was just wondering if that thought had ever crossed your mind. Thanks
> 
> Ben
> 
> 

       Ray has never thought much about making a movie for one of his books.  
He writes.  That's what he gets paid for, and he's stated (quite recently, 
come to think of it) that screenwriting isn't a simple (or economical) 
transition to make.  Over time, he's considered OTHER people making movies of 
his books, but he's unable to comment on any sort of details involved in the 
Silver Screen process/bargaining/behind the scenes kind of stuff.  Anyhow, 
his opinions, ideas for characters, etc. are all covered extensively in the 
FAQ.  You can find it at http://www.psihawk.com/feist/feist-faq.html and 
through all the digests over the last number of years.
       (No sarcasm, ill intent or disrespect for honest questions was 
intended)

       Mike

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From: "Greg Bulloch" <somedude1_2000@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Degrees
Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 17:45:40 +1000
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From: "Greg Bulloch" <somedude1_2000@hotmail.com>
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Mr Feist,
I know you studied at a university somewhere but I was just interested in 
what exactly you studied there. Also what degree or certificated did you 
aquire and which univesity.

P.S. I got Murder In LaMut HardCover today!!!! So its definatly instored
in australia....I got it from Dymocks Book Sellers. The R.R.P. was $45 AUD 
but they are selling it for $35 AUD

Greg

_________________________________________________________________
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From: "Stuart Maher" <stuart.maher@ntlworld.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Question for Mr. Feist
Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 09:29:10 +0100
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Stuart Maher" <stuart.maher@ntlworld.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Question for Mr. Feist
Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 09:29:10 +0100
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Prepare thyself for much kind information regarding the FAQ and your
impending study of it and how thee shall never broach one of the banned
subjects again

Stu
>  -----Original Message-----
>  From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Ben
>  Sent: 11 June 2002 05:07
>  To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>  Subject: Question for Mr. Feist
>
>
>  hey,
>
>  I was wondering if you have ever thought of making a movie like the harry
>potter series or lord of the rings. But on the other hand sometimes movies
>can take away from the book. Only the best movies made after books still
>dont even equal up to the magic you feel after reading a great book. So I
>was just wondering if that thought had ever crossed your mind. Thanks
>
>  Ben
>
>
>
>
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>--
>  Do You Yahoo!?
>  Sign-up for Video Highlights of 2002 FIFA World Cup

1, edited,,
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Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 09:32:36 EDT
Subject: Kulgan and Meecham
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*** EOOH ***
From: JEEPMONSTER69@aol.com
Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 09:32:36 EDT
Subject: Kulgan and Meecham
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I have a question for the list and for Ray- I know this was discussed a long 
time ago (about 4 years), but I would like a definitive answer.  Are Kulgan 
and Meecham gay lovers? They sure come off as gay...just a question.


                                                 Peace,
                                                             Matt

"Lets Roll."- Todd Beamer
USA, Muthafacko!

1,,
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From: Tim Nicholas <tim@nicholas.net.nz>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Kulgan and Meecham
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 01:57:30 +1200
From: Tim Nicholas <tim@nicholas.net.nz>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Kulgan and Meecham
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Hello, 
This is in the FAQ[1], the short answer is..... Wait for it.... 

Yes.


Tim
[1] http://www.psihawk.com/feist/

On Tue, Jun 11, 2002 at 09:32:36AM -0400, JEEPMONSTER69@aol.com wrote:
> I have a question for the list and for Ray- I know this was discussed a long 
> time ago (about 4 years), but I would like a definitive answer.  Are Kulgan 
> and Meecham gay lovers? They sure come off as gay...just a question.
> 
> 
>                                                  Peace,
>                                                              Matt
> 
> "Lets Roll."- Todd Beamer
> USA, Muthafacko!
>                

-- 
Tim Nicholas                          ||                      Cilix
Email: tim@nicholas.net.nz            ||       Dunedin, New Zealand
http://tim.nicholas.net.nz/           ||  Cell/SMS: +64 21 113 0399



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*** EOOH ***
From: "Donal K. Fellows" <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Kulgan and Meecham
Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 15:08:05 +0100
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JEEPMONSTER69@aol.com
> I have a question for the list and for Ray- I know this was discussed a long 
> time ago (about 4 years), but I would like a definitive answer.  Are Kulgan 
> and Meecham gay lovers? They sure come off as gay...just a question.

The definitive (and in-the-FAQ) answer is "Yes".

Donal.
-- 
Donal K. Fellows, Department of Computer Science, University of Manchester, UK.
(work) fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk     Tel: +44-161-275-6137  (preferred email addr.)
(home) donal@ugglan.demon.co.uk  Tel: +44-1274-401017   Mobile: +44-7957-298955
http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~fellowsd/  (Don't quote my .sig; I've seen it before!)



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Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 07:47:26 -0700
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From: "Raymond E. Feist" <raymond@bittersea.com>
Subject: Re: Degrees
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 07:47:26 -0700
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: "Raymond E. Feist" <raymond@bittersea.com>
Subject: Re: Degrees
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>Mr Feist,
>I know you studied at a university somewhere but I was just 
>interested in what exactly you studied there. Also what degree or 
>certificated did you aquire and which univesity.


I have a B.A. in Communication Arts from the University of 
California, San Diego.  My emphasis was Mass Market and Public 
Opinion.
Best, R.E.F.


-- 


---

Never attribute to malice what can
satisfactorily be explained away by stupidity.



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From: "Raymond E. Feist" <raymond@bittersea.com>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 07:52:35 -0700
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: "Raymond E. Feist" <raymond@bittersea.com>
Subject: Re: Kulgan and Meecham
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

>I have a question for the list and for Ray- I know this was 
>discussed a long time ago (about 4 years), but I would like a 
>definitive answer.  Are Kulgan and Meecham gay lovers? They sure 
>come off as gay...just a question.


Boy, am I feeling evil.

Here's what really happened.

When I wrote the books, I had zero idea about sexual preferences.

Then sometime after, someone started giving me crap about no gay 
characters (the writer of the messages was a gay activist).  So 
rather than get into a whole dialogue on why I'm writing 
entertainment rather than polemics, I said, "I have gay characters."

Then I realized that Kulgan and Meecham's behavior easily made sense 
if they were gay.

So I decided that they were.

Now, I really don't care.  They either are or are not depending on 
what makes you happy.

The point in all of that being, except for those characters I 
describe as having sexual/romantic encounters, I have no idea of the 
sexual orientation of any of the characters who dance across my 
pages.  Example, Captain Subatai from the Serpentwar: I don't know if 
he's straight, gay, or sleeps with barnyard fowl, and you know what? 
It doesn't matter.

Best, R.E.F.

-- 


---

Never attribute to malice what can
satisfactorily be explained away by stupidity.



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Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 11:32:44 EDT
Subject: Re: Kulgan and Meecham
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*** EOOH ***
From: DuncanMacLeod89@aol.com
Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 11:32:44 EDT
Subject: Re: Kulgan and Meecham
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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In a message dated 6/11/2002 6:41:23 AM Pacific Standard Time, 
JEEPMONSTER69@aol.com writes:


> I have a question for the list and for Ray- I know this was discussed a long 
> time ago (about 4 years), but I would like a definitive answer.  Are Kulgan 
> and Meecham gay lovers? They sure come off as gay...just a question. 
> 
> 
>                                                 Peace, 
>                                                             Matt 
> 
> "Lets Roll."- Todd Beamer 
> USA, Muthafacko! 
>                

It wasn't four years ago. I joined about a year ago. lol. When I joined this 
was the subject and I was just like, "Whoa there." My opinion is I don't 
think they are. I just got tired of the dispute so I didn't read the emails 
and didn't hear the deffinate outcome. I just think it is a lonely old man 
who needed a care taker.
-Chance
"We who are truly brave, will never live in fear."-The Rock

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Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 11:35:05 EDT
Subject: Re: Kulgan and Meecham
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*** EOOH ***
From: DuncanMacLeod89@aol.com
Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 11:35:05 EDT
Subject: Re: Kulgan and Meecham
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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In a message dated 6/11/2002 8:00:54 AM Pacific Standard Time, 
raymond@bittersea.com writes:


> Boy, am I feeling evil.
> 
> Here's what really happened.
> 
> When I wrote the books, I had zero idea about sexual preferences.
> 
> Then sometime after, someone started giving me crap about no gay 
> characters (the writer of the messages was a gay activist).  So 
> rather than get into a whole dialogue on why I'm writing 
> entertainment rather than polemics, I said, "I have gay characters."
> 
> Then I realized that Kulgan and Meecham's behavior easily made sense 
> if they were gay.
> 
> So I decided that they were.
> 
> Now, I really don't care.  They either are or are not depending on 
> what makes you happy.
> 
> The point in all of that being, except for those characters I 
> describe as having sexual/romantic encounters, I have no idea of the 
> sexual orientation of any of the characters who dance across my 
> pages.  Example, Captain Subatai from the Serpentwar: I don't know if 
> he's straight, gay, or sleeps with barnyard fowl, and you know what? 
> It doesn't matter.
> 
> Best, R.E.F.
> 

Well put Ray. :)
-Chance
"We who are truly brave, will never live in fear."-The Rock

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Subject: Re: Kulgan and Meecham
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Kulgan and Meecham
Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 11:12:23 -0500
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Actually this is one of the topics that comes up fairly frequently.
Nothing even remotely new about it since it was old hat when I
joined the list back in 1998.  I think this is the first time Ray
has said that he made them gay to appease an activist though.  Eh,
always something new to learn.

-James

----- Original Message -----
> It wasn't four years ago. I joined about a year ago. lol. When I joined this
> was the subject and I was just like, "Whoa there." My opinion is I don't
> think they are. I just got tired of the dispute so I didn't read the emails
> and didn't hear the deffinate outcome. I just think it is a lonely old man
> who needed a care taker.
> -Chance
> "We who are truly brave, will never live in fear."-The Rock
>



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 09:40:12 -0700
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: "Raymond E. Feist" <raymond@bittersea.com>
Subject: Re: Kulgan and Meecham
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>Actually this is one of the topics that comes up fairly frequently.
>Nothing even remotely new about it since it was old hat when I
>joined the list back in 1998.  I think this is the first time Ray
>has said that he made them gay to appease an activist though.  Eh,
>always something new to learn.


I didn't do it to "appease" him, rather to make a point, which it 
turned out he was too dim to get, i.e. he presumed because I didn't 
specifically point to any character and say "he/she's gay," that all 
the characters in the book had to be straight, which is an example of 
his own blinders being in place.  I didn't have a character I knew 
was gay until the Serpentwar.

Best, R.E.F.
-- 


---

Never attribute to malice what can
satisfactorily be explained away by stupidity.



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Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 11:10:52 -0700 (PDT)
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Hey,

Thanks a lot I was just wondering because if a movie ever came out
about any of his books I'd love to go see it. Oh and i was wondering
if Murder in LaMut was out yet in the U.S. Thanks again

Ben



---------------------------------
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In a message dated Tue, 11 Jun 2002  9:41:23 AM Eastern Daylight Time, JEEPMONSTER69 writes:

> I have a question for the list and for Ray- I know this was discussed a long time ago (about 4 years), but I would like a definitive answer.  Are Kulgan and Meecham gay lovers? They sure come off as gay...just a question. 
> 
> 
>                                                 Peace, 
>                                                             
> Matt 
> 
> "Lets Roll."- Todd Beamer 
> USA, Muthafacko! 
>                

Yes, they are a committed Gay couple. 



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 That somewhat answer an interrogation I had about that point. I was
very surprised years ago when I saw in the FAQ that Ray said they were
gay. I didn't find too much references in the text about them being
lovers, apart that they live in the wood together, but I mostly saw
that as good relationship and Meecham helping his old friend. Also I
noticed that Kulgan laughed at the bare legs of Meecham in Silverthorn
(or Sethanon)....like he never saw them before, which would be strange
for lovers. I see now by your answer it was not really meant to be gay
relationship at the start. Make more sense foe me.

In any case, it is indeed really not important :-)

Paddyjack

 



On Tue, 11 Jun 2002 07:52:35  
 Raymond E. Feist wrote:
>>I have a question for the list and for Ray- I know this was 
>>discussed a long time ago (about 4 years), but I would like a 
>>definitive answer.  Are Kulgan and Meecham gay lovers? They sure 
>>come off as gay...just a question.
>
>
>Boy, am I feeling evil.
>
>Here's what really happened.
>
>When I wrote the books, I had zero idea about sexual preferences.
>
>Then sometime after, someone started giving me crap about no gay 
>characters (the writer of the messages was a gay activist).  So 
>rather than get into a whole dialogue on why I'm writing 
>entertainment rather than polemics, I said, "I have gay characters."
>
>Then I realized that Kulgan and Meecham's behavior easily made sense 
>if they were gay.
>
>So I decided that they were.
>
>Now, I really don't care.  They either are or are not depending on 
>what makes you happy.
>
>The point in all of that being, except for those characters I 
>describe as having sexual/romantic encounters, I have no idea of the 
>sexual orientation of any of the characters who dance across my 
>pages.  Example, Captain Subatai from the Serpentwar: I don't know if 
>he's straight, gay, or sleeps with barnyard fowl, and you know what? 
>It doesn't matter.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>
>-- 
>
>
>---
>
>Never attribute to malice what can
>satisfactorily be explained away by stupidity.
>
>


_______________________________________________________
WIN a first class trip to Hawaii.  Live like the King of Rock and Roll
on the big Island. Enter Now!
http://r.lycos.com/r/sagel_mail/http://www.elvis.lycos.com/sweepstakes



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Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 16:31:21 EDT
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In a message dated 6/11/02 10:00:54 AM Central Daylight Time, 
raymond@bittersea.com writes:


> I don't know if he's straight, gay, or sleeps with barnyard fowl, and you 
> know what? 
> It doesn't matter.

       I agree.  Why would it matter?  It never would have made an impact in 
his books, and if R.E.F. was trying to keep to how things where back in the 
middle ages, then there shouldn't be many, if any, characters that where 
openly gay.   

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Subject: Re:Betrayal at Krondor music
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 22:36:28 +0000
Subject: Re:Betrayal at Krondor music
From: "Sylvain Guehl" <fenyxkell@demo.xandmail.com>
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Get a MIDI sequencer software like CakeWalk or Cubase and you can load
and print any midi file as you wish

Syl
---------- Entête initiale -----------

De      : owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
A          : FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Cc          : 
Date      : Mon, 10 Jun 2002 11:39:01 +0000
Sujet : Re:Betrayal at Krondor music

> 
> 
> Does anyone out there know how I would go about printing the musical score 
> for these songs, so I can learn to play them myself?
> 
> 
> 
> >From: "Sylvain Guehl" <fenyxkell@demo.xandmail.com>
> >Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> >To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> >Subject: Re:Betrayal at Krondor music
> >Date: Mon,  3 Jun 2002 23:34:14 +0000
> >
> >Yep I did mention it long ago :)
> >
> >What's good in this is that with MID format you can print the musical score 
> >and learn to play it your own way (guitar and flute are a wonderful duet 
> >for those BAK musics)
> >
> >Syl
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > Sorry if this has been mentioned before, but I've found a site that has 
> >a
> > > lot of BaK music available to download for anyone who's interested.
> > >
> > > http://www.queststudios.com/quest/bak.html
> > >
> > > Al
> > >
> > >
> >
> >Fenyx Kell.
> >
> 
> 
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.
> 
> 



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*** EOOH ***
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Subject: Re: Kulgan and Meecham
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> Then I realized that Kulgan and Meecham's behavior easily made sense 
> if they were gay.

Well, I really don't remember anything in the first riftwar trilogy
about this, I mean : 1) It never occured to my mind they could be, and
2) Even thinking about it twice I don't remember any clue about this.

> Captain Subatai from the Serpentwar: 

Is it pronounced a bit like "Subotai" in Conan The Barbarian ? 
(or "Subotai" the Sergent from Genghis Khan)

Other question Ray, I was filtering your mails to a special folder but
for some days it wasn't filtered, and now I understand : you changed
your freeform name from "Raymond Feist" to "Raymond
E. Feist". Ah. Damn stupids filters.

(Ok I agree the last one wasn't a question actually).

Et à part ça, ça va ? :)

Syl



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References: <6a.213a00c0.2a3755f4@aol.com> <p05111b01b92bbe161ffb@[66.75.147.9]>
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Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 17:14:34 -0600
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
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"Raymond E. Feist" wrote:
> 
> So rather than get into a whole dialogue on why I'm writing
> entertainment rather than polemics, I said, "I have gay characters."

Entertainment and politics don't mix :)

Craig J. Ries



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*** EOOH ***
From: LDS627@aol.com
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In a message dated Tue, 11 Jun 2002  7:33:28 PM Eastern Daylight Time, cries@yifan.net writes:

> 
> 
> "Raymond E. Feist" wrote:
> > 
> > So rather than get into a whole dialogue on why I'm writing
> > entertainment rather than polemics, I said, "I have gay 
> characters."
> 
> Entertainment and politics don't mix :)
> 
> Craig J. Ries

Tell that to The Capital Steps



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Subject: Re: Kulgan and Meecham
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Kulgan and Meecham
Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 18:43:44 -0500
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Hmm, he was using Raymond E. Feist prior to April 2001 as well.  I
suggest you set your filter to sort based on e-mail address of the
sender rather than the name.  That works a lot better with people
who do occasionally change their send name.

-James

>>>>
>Other question Ray, I was filtering your mails to a special folder
>but for some days it wasn't filtered, and now I understand : you
>changed your freeform name from "Raymond Feist" to "Raymond E.
>Feist". Ah. Damn stupids filters.
>>
>> (Ok I agree the last one wasn't a question actually).
>>
>> Et à part ça, ça va ? :)
>>
>> Syl

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Craig J. Ries wrote:

> "Raymond E. Feist" wrote:
> 
>>So rather than get into a whole dialogue on why I'm writing
>>entertainment rather than polemics, I said, "I have gay characters."
>>
> 
> Entertainment and politics don't mix :)


Oh, I dunno - some politicians are VERY funny.  Often not intentionally, but...


cd
-- 
Death to all Absolutists!



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Gkhd11a@aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 6/11/02 10:00:54 AM Central Daylight Time, 
> raymond@bittersea.com writes:
> 
> 
>     I don't know if he's straight, gay, or sleeps with barnyard fowl,
>     and you know what?
>     It doesn't matter.
> 
> 
> 
>       I agree.  Why would it matter?  It never would have made an impact 
> in his books, and if R.E.F. was trying to keep to how things where back 
> in the middle ages, then there shouldn't be many, if any, characters 
> that where openly gay.   

Well... that's only true if you're talking about *earth's* middle ages. 
  We have no evidence at all about how they feel about such things on 
Midkemia in it's various cultures.

To paraphrase - it's only important to the fowl.

cd
-- 
Death to all Absolutists!



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Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 18:25:50 -0700
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From: "Raymond E. Feist" <raymond@bittersea.com>
Subject: Re: Kulgan and Meecham
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 18:25:50 -0700
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: "Raymond E. Feist" <raymond@bittersea.com>
Subject: Re: Kulgan and Meecham
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>  > Then I realized that Kulgan and Meecham's behavior easily made sense
>>  if they were gay.
>
>Well, I really don't remember anything in the first riftwar trilogy 
>about this, I mean : 1) It never occured to my mind they could be, 
>and 2) Even thinking about it twice I don't remember any clue about 
>this.


Nothing overt.  But at times they argue like an old married couple.

>  > Captain Subatai from the Serpentwar:
>
>Is it pronounced a bit like "Subotai" in Conan The Barbarian ?
>(or "Subotai" the Sergent from Genghis Khan)


Sue-ba-tay.  So, neither.

Best R.E.F.
-- 


---

Never attribute to malice what can
satisfactorily be explained away by stupidity.



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Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 12:15:22 +1000 (GMT+1000)
From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Kulgan and Meecham
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My take on it is, whether or not they are gay (or not) it doesn't matter
in the slighest to the story, so therefore not really that important.


>  That somewhat answer an interrogation I had about that point. I was very surprised years ago when I saw in the FAQ that Ray said they were gay. I didn't find too much references in the text about them being lovers, apart that they live in the wood together, but I mostly saw that as good relationship and Meecham helping his old friend. Also I noticed that Kulgan laughed at the bare legs of Meecham in Silverthorn (or Sethanon)....like he never saw them before, which would be strange for lovers. I see now by your answer it was not really meant to be gay relationship at the start. Make more sense foe me.
> In any case, it is indeed really not important :-)
> Paddyjack
> On Tue, 11 Jun 2002 07:52:35
>  Raymond E. Feist wrote:
> >>I have a question for the list and for Ray- I know this was
> >>discussed a long time ago (about 4 years), but I would like a
> >>definitive answer.  Are Kulgan and Meecham gay lovers? They sure
> >>come off as gay...just a question.
> >
> >
> >Boy, am I feeling evil.
> >
> >Here's what really happened.
> >
> >When I wrote the books, I had zero idea about sexual preferences.
> >
> >Then sometime after, someone started giving me crap about no gay
> >characters (the writer of the messages was a gay activist).  So
> >rather than get into a whole dialogue on why I'm writing
> >entertainment rather than polemics, I said, "I have gay characters."
> >
> >Then I realized that Kulgan and Meecham's behavior easily made sense
> >if they were gay.
> >
> >So I decided that they were.
> >
> >Now, I really don't care.  They either are or are not depending on
> >what makes you happy.
> >
> >The point in all of that being, except for those characters I
> >describe as having sexual/romantic encounters, I have no idea of the
> >sexual orientation of any of the characters who dance across my
> >pages.  Example, Captain Subatai from the Serpentwar: I don't know if
> >he's straight, gay, or sleeps with barnyard fowl, and you know what?
> >It doesn't matter.
> >
> >Best, R.E.F.
> >
> >--
> >
> >
> >---
> >
> >Never attribute to malice what can
> >satisfactorily be explained away by stupidity.
> >
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________________
> WIN a first class trip to Hawaii.  Live like the King of Rock and Roll
> on the big Island. Enter Now!
> http://r.lycos.com/r/sagel_mail/http://www.elvis.lycos.com/sweepstakes
>
>

Thanks
Darragh
================================================
msn: iamtheporkfireman@hotmail.com

"Believe or die - thank you O lord for all those
 options" - Bill Hicks.
================================================



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Subject: Re: Kulgan and Meecham
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*** EOOH ***
From: JEEPMONSTER69@aol.com
Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 00:34:07 EDT
Subject: Re: Kulgan and Meecham
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

In a message dated 6/11/2002 4:35:38 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
Gkhd11a@aol.com writes:


> 
>       I agree.  Why would it matter?  It never would have made an impact in 
> his books, and if R.E.F. was trying to keep to how things where back in the 
> middle ages, then there shouldn't be many, if any, characters that where 
> openly gay.    

True, but it had been on my mind for a while- next time Ill check the FAQ.


                                           Peace,
                                                       Matt
"Lets Roll."- Todd Beamer
USA, Muthafacko!

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Subject: VIRUS WARNING: Don't open any messages from me!
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*** EOOH ***
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Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 09:52:39 +0950
Subject: VIRUS WARNING: Don't open any messages from me!
X-User-Info: 203.202.88.90

It seems that I have just received W32.Klez.E.  I sincerely apologise to anybody
who has received this virus from me.  I'm sending this message from a HTML mailer
on a clean computer, while I try and get rid of the bloody thing from my other
one.  Until then, have fun as I won't be back online until its gone.

- MARK



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Subject: Re:VIRUS WARNING: Don't open any messages from me!
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 08:51:15 +0000
Subject: Re:VIRUS WARNING: Don't open any messages from me!
From: "Sylvain Guehl" <fenyxkell@demo.xandmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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You, and anyone who got infected, can get rid of this worm virus with
this free removal tool from Symantec:

http://securityresponse.symantec.com/avcenter/venc/data/w32.klez.removal.tool.html

It works very fine.

Syl


---------- Entête initiale -----------

De      : owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
A          : FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Cc          : 
Date      : Thu, 13 Jun 2002 09:52:39 +0950
Sujet : VIRUS WARNING: Don't open any messages from me!

> It seems that I have just received W32.Klez.E.  I sincerely apologise to anybody
> who has received this virus from me.  I'm sending this message from a HTML mailer
> on a clean computer, while I try and get rid of the bloody thing from my other
> one.  Until then, have fun as I won't be back online until its gone.
> 
> - MARK
> 
> 



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Message-ID: <12c.12daaa17.2a3ab56d@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 22:56:45 EDT
Subject: Midkemia Press
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*** EOOH ***
From: Gkhd11a@aol.com
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 22:56:45 EDT
Subject: Midkemia Press
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

       I was just wondering if they are doing anything.  On there website it 
said they where going to make a play by email Midkemia game, is that idea 
still alive?

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*** EOOH ***
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a game like ultima online for midkemia woould be good i would pay 100$USD a 
year for an account in that

>From: Gkhd11a@aol.com
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: Midkemia Press
>Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 22:56:45 EDT
>
>        I was just wondering if they are doing anything.  On there website 
>it
>said they where going to make a play by email Midkemia game, is that idea
>still alive?




_________________________________________________________________
Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
http://www.hotmail.com



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Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 22:14:44 -0700 (PDT)
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From: KARL SIMONIAN <karlsimonian@yahoo.com>
Subject: Subatai ,was Kulgan and Meecham
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 22:14:44 -0700 (PDT)
From: KARL SIMONIAN <karlsimonian@yahoo.com>
Subject: Subatai ,was Kulgan and Meecham
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


--- "Raymond E. Feist" <raymond@bittersea.com> wrote:
 Example, Captain Subatai from the
> Serpentwar: I don't know if 
> he's straight, gay, or sleeps with barnyard fowl,
> and you know what? 
> It doesn't matter.
> 
> Best, R.E.F.

Ray, 

All this time I thought the Pathfinder's name was
"Subai" as it was printed throughout the very book you
signed for me!
Now I do remember at some point in the book, he is
referred to as "Subatai" once, and I assumed that was
the typo, not the other way around.
Learn something new every day.

Karl


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com



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References: <12c.12daaa17.2a3ab56d@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 01:11:43 -0700
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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: "Raymond E. Feist" <raymond@bittersea.com>
Subject: Re: Midkemia Press
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Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 01:11:43 -0700
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: "Raymond E. Feist" <raymond@bittersea.com>
Subject: Re: Midkemia Press
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>      I was just wondering if they are doing anything.  On there 
>website it said they where going to make a play by email Midkemia 
>game, is that idea still alive?


-- 
The idea is, but I think Steve has it on the back burner.  You can 
e-mail him for details.

Best, R.E.F.

---

Never attribute to malice what can
satisfactorily be explained away by stupidity.



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Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 01:13:25 -0700
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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: "Raymond E. Feist" <raymond@bittersea.com>
Subject: Re: Subatai ,was Kulgan and Meecham
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 01:13:25 -0700
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: "Raymond E. Feist" <raymond@bittersea.com>
Subject: Re: Subatai ,was Kulgan and Meecham
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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>--- "Raymond E. Feist" <raymond@bittersea.com> wrote:
>  Example, Captain Subatai from the
>>  Serpentwar: I don't know if
>>  he's straight, gay, or sleeps with barnyard fowl,
>>  and you know what?
>>  It doesn't matter.
>>
>>  Best, R.E.F.
>
>Ray,
>
>All this time I thought the Pathfinder's name was
>"Subai" as it was printed throughout the very book you
>signed for me!
>Now I do remember at some point in the book, he is
>referred to as "Subatai" once, and I assumed that was
>the typo, not the other way around.
>Learn something new every day.
>
>Karl

No, I did change it, and forgot.  Originally it was Subatai, but that 
was too close to Subotai, the Mongol general, so we shortened to 
Subai.

Best, R.E.F.
-- 


---

Never attribute to malice what can
satisfactorily be explained away by stupidity.



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From: "Steve Weghorn" <pelvislives@hotmail.com>
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Subject: question for Mr. Feist and list
Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 16:32:21 -0400
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Mr. Feist,

I recently finished reading The Art Of War by SUN TZU, and I was
wondering if you or anyone on the list had read it and what you guys
thought of it.  I personally liked it a lot, and I thought that it fit
in well with the military thought of today, which surprised me
considering when it was written.

                                                                   Thanks
                                                               Steve Weghorn



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Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 18:33:44 -0700
From: Carl Dershem <dershem@cox.net>
Organization: Project Selene
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Steve Weghorn wrote:

> Mr. Feist,
> 
> I recently finished reading The Art Of War by SUN TZU, and I was 
> wondering if you or anyone on the list had read it and what you guys 
> thought of it.  I personally liked it a lot, and I thought that it fit 
> in well with the military thought of today, which surprised me 
> considering when it was written. 


Add "five rings" by Musashi, and you have, encapsulated, a lot of the 
military theory that's shaped the military world for the past umpteen 
years.  Very interestng books, and depending on your state of mind, they 
show you different things.  Very highly recommended.

cd
-- 
Death to all Absolutists!



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From: "Raymond E. Feist" <raymond@bittersea.com>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 19:04:05 -0700
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: "Raymond E. Feist" <raymond@bittersea.com>
Subject: Re: question for Mr. Feist and list
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

>Mr. Feist,
>I recently finished reading The Art Of War by SUN TZU, and I was 
>wondering if you or anyone on the list had read it and what you guys 
>thought of it.  I personally liked it a lot, and I thought that it 
>fit in well with the military thought of today, which surprised me 
>considering when it was written.


Well received book, used by many in business as a bible.

Best, R.E.F.
-- 


---

Never attribute to malice what can
satisfactorily be explained away by stupidity.



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From: LDS627@aol.com
Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 23:27:29 EDT
Subject: Re: question for Mr. Feist and list
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Both Sun Tzu and Musashi's books are based on the nature of people, rather 
than technology

In a message dated 6/14/2002 7:31:46 PM Pacific Daylight Time, 
raymond@bittersea.com writes:


> Subj:Re: question for Mr. Feist and list 
> Date:6/14/2002 7:31:46 PM Pacific Daylight Time
> From:<A HREF="mailto:raymond@bittersea.com">raymond@bittersea.com</A>
> Reply-to:<A HREF="mailto:FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu">FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu</A>
> To:<A HREF="mailto:FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu">FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu</A>
> Sent from the Internet 
> 
> 
> 
> >Mr. Feist,
> >I recently finished reading The Art Of War by SUN TZU, and I was 
> >wondering if you or anyone on the list had read it and what you guys 
> >thought of it.  I personally liked it a lot, and I thought that it 
> >fit in well with the military thought of today, which surprised me 
> >considering when it was written.
> 
> 
> Well received book, used by many in business as a bible.
> 
> Best, R.E.F.
> -- 
> 
> 
> ---
> 
> Never attribute to malice what can
> satisfactorily be explained away by stupidity.
> 
> 

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From: JEEPMONSTER69@aol.com
Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2002 00:13:03 EDT
Subject: Re: question for Mr. Feist and list
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

In a message dated 6/14/2002 11:56:32 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
LDS627@aol.com writes:


> Both Sun Tzu and Musashi's books are based on the nature of people, rather 
> than technology
> 

I feel the same way about Starship Troopers by Heinlein.  It's more about 
society in general than war- a personal favorite.

                                           Peace,
                                                       Matt
"Lets Roll."- Todd Beamer
USA, Muthafacko!

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From: LDS627@aol.com
Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2002 00:36:09 EDT
Subject: Re: question for Mr. Feist and list
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

In a message dated 6/14/2002 8:56:32 PM Pacific Daylight Time, LDS627@aol.com 
writes:


> Both Sun Tzu and Musashi's books are based on the nature of people, rather 
> than technology

What I had meant to add was. Because of this, it is relevant to many 
situations, where you havce opposing ideas, goals and forces. As it has been 
often said, Times change, people don't.

Larry

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From: "Terri Lyn Layman" <terrilyn@fullnet.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: question for Mr. Feist and list
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Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: "Terri Lyn Layman" <terrilyn@fullnet.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: question for Mr. Feist and list
Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 23:56:08 -0500
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Starship Troopers:
-Good book.
-Cheezy movie with many WRONG things!  (I had some serious dreams crushed
when I read the book and was alerted to the Dina Meyer character of Dez
being a guy... dashed some heavy DM/DR thoughts....)

Anyhow...  I'm a bad person.
-TerriLyn
>  -----Original Message-----
>  From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of JEEPMONSTER69@aol.com
>  Sent: Friday, June 14, 2002 11:13 PM
>  To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>  Subject: Re: question for Mr. Feist and list
>
>
>  In a message dated 6/14/2002 11:56:32 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
>LDS627@aol.com writes:
>
>
>
>    Both Sun Tzu and Musashi's books are based on the nature of people,
>rather than technology
>
>
>
>  I feel the same way about Starship Troopers by Heinlein.  It's more about
>society in general than war- a personal favorite.
>
>					     Peace,
>							 Matt
>  "Lets Roll."- Todd Beamer
>  USA, Muthafacko!

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Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 22:28:56 -0700
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Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 22:28:56 -0700
From: Carl Dershem <dershem@cox.net>
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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: question for Mr. Feist and list
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Terri Lyn Layman wrote:

> Starship Troopers:
> 
> -Good book.
> 
> -Cheezy movie with many WRONG things!  (I had some serious dreams 
> crushed when I read the book and was alerted to the Dina Meyer character 
> of Dez being a guy... dashed some heavy DM/DR thoughts....)


It's the kind of thing that makes me glad Ray's picky about having 
"Magician" done - it could end up an abortion like "Troopers" was.  It'd 
be better to have someone really edicated to doing it right (which is 
what you'd need to put up the kind of money necessary) to make it 
worthwhile.

cd
-- 
Death to all Absolutists!



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Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 23:46:54 -0600
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: question for Mr. Feist and list
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Carl Dershem wrote:
> 
> It's the kind of thing that makes me glad Ray's picky about having
> "Magician" done - it could end up an abortion like "Troopers" was.

You would never know until the movie is actually made.

> It'd be better to have someone really edicated to doing it right
> (which is what you'd need to put up the kind of money necessary)
> to make it worthwhile.

Yet, directors like Peter Jackson and Sam Raimi didn't start out with
big budget movies...

Craig J. Ries



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From: LDS627@aol.com
Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2002 04:59:16 EDT
Subject: Re: question for Mr. Feist and list
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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In a message dated 6/14/2002 9:43:57 PM Pacific Daylight Time, 
JEEPMONSTER69@aol.com writes:


> I feel the same way about Starship Troopers by Heinlein.  It's more about 
> society in general than war- a personal favorite. 
> 
>                                           Peace, 
>                                                       Matt 
> "Lets Roll."- Todd Beamer 
> USA, Muthafacko! 
> 

Well, personally while I enjoyed the book, I felt it was more a reflection of 
RAH's views on service and participatory government. I.E. that those who run 
it should be those willing to do service for the privilege. Seemed to me it 
was his answer to bread and circuses.

Larry

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Just recieved my copy, looking forward to it, just wishing school and work 
didn't interfere with my reading time.

John


_________________________________________________________________
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From: "Wouter Durnez" <arutha_of_krondor@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Getting kicked from list
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From: "Wouter Durnez" <arutha_of_krondor@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Getting kicked from list
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Why do I get kicked from the list all the time? Does anyone have the same 
problem here? It is pretty annoying, so I'd like to know the reason.



_________________________________________________________________
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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Dan Lorey <dl24@cornell.edu>
Subject: ADMIN Re: Getting kicked from list
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Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2002 13:23:06 -0400
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Dan Lorey <dl24@cornell.edu>
Subject: ADMIN Re: Getting kicked from list
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

At 16:37 6/15/02 +0000, <arutha_of_krondor@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Why do I get kicked from the list all the time? Does anyone have the same 
>problem here? It is pretty annoying, so I'd like to know the reason.

 You keep getting kicked off the list because I keep getting error
messages like this from your address:

-----
   ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
<arutha_of_krondor@hotmail.com>

   ----- Transcript of session follows -----
... while talking to mx05.hotmail.com.:
>>> RCPT To:<arutha_of_krondor@hotmail.com>
<<< 552 Requested action not taken: exceeded storage allocation
554 <arutha_of_krondor@hotmail.com>... Service unavailable
-----

  In other words, your mailbox was full. If the list server can't deliver
email to a mailbox because it it full, then the address gets deleted from
the list. And when your mailbox is full, it's pointless for me to try to
let you know that your mailbox is full, because no email I'd send you
would get through.

  This is the number one cause of people getting kicked off the list.
If you don't want to get kicked off the list, make sure to keep your
mailbox from getting full. If you let your mailbox fill up, any annoyance
you may feel from getting kicked off the list is your own doing.

  Dan Lorey - Feistfans-L List Owner



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From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Murder Question, possible spoiler.
Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2002 14:39:52 -0400
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From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Murder Question, possible spoiler.
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Spoiler?















Why are the coins in Murder called "Reals" rather than Royals and/or 
Sovereigns?

Adieu

Jimmy

_________________________________________________________________
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From: Gkhd11a@aol.com
Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2002 14:57:51 EDT
Subject: Re: question for Mr. Feist and list
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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In a message dated 6/15/02 12:57:50 AM Central Daylight Time, dershem@cox.net 
writes:


> Terri Lyn Layman wrote:
> 
> > Starship Troopers:
> > 
> > -Good book.
> > 
> > -Cheezy movie with many WRONG things!  (I had some serious dreams 
> > crushed when I read the book and was alerted to the Dina Meyer character 
> > of Dez being a guy... dashed some heavy DM/DR thoughts....)
> 
> 
> It's the kind of thing that makes me glad Ray's picky about having 
> "Magician" done - it could end up an abortion like "Troopers" was.  It'd 
> be better to have someone really edicated to doing it right (which is 
> what you'd need to put up the kind of money necessary) to make it 
> worthwhile.
> 
> cd
> -- 
> Death to all Absolutists!

       Magician would be horrible as a single movie.  It would be like if 
they tried to make Lord of the Rings one movie.  I think it would be great to 
have a TV series, for the first season, Magician, the second Silverthorn and 
Darkness, and another for the Empire trilogy (or 2 or 3 seasons).  If they 
where to make a movie off one of rays books, it should be Krondor the 
Betrayal because of all the action in it, and length.

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Subject: Re: Subatai ,was Kulgan and Meecham
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From: Gkhd11a@aol.com
Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2002 14:52:28 EDT
Subject: Re: Subatai ,was Kulgan and Meecham
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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In a message dated 6/14/02 3:38:20 AM Central Daylight Time, 
raymond@bittersea.com writes:


> >--- "Raymond E. Feist" <raymond@bittersea.com> wrote:
> >  Example, Captain Subatai from the
> >>  Serpentwar: I don't know if
> >>  he's straight, gay, or sleeps with barnyard fowl,
> >>  and you know what?
> >>  It doesn't matter.
> >>
> >>  Best, R.E.F.
> >
> >Ray,
> >
> >All this time I thought the Pathfinder's name was
> >"Subai" as it was printed throughout the very book you
> >signed for me!
> >Now I do remember at some point in the book, he is
> >referred to as "Subatai" once, and I assumed that was
> >the typo, not the other way around.
> >Learn something new every day.
> >
> >Karl
> 
> No, I did change it, and forgot.  Originally it was Subatai, but that 
> was too close to Subotai, the Mongol general, so we shortened to 
> Subai.
> 
> Best, R.E.F.
> -- 
> 
> 
> ---
> 
> Never attribute to malice what can
> satisfactorily be explained away by stupidity.

       As long as we are talking about errors, how many years are there 
between each tear of the gods?  In Shards of a Broken Crown, it says 100, 
while in Tear of the Gods it says 10.  I would assume that it would be 10 
because it is mentioned many times, but I thought that for some reason that 
might be explored in future Krondor books, that the time changed from 10 to a 
100.  What is it?

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Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2002 12:01:39 -0700
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From: Carl Dershem <dershem@cox.net>
Organization: Project Selene
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Subject: Re: question for Mr. Feist and list
References: <000801c21428$f71cc3a0$8f18fea9@ctlayman> <3D0AD098.5060703@cox.net> <3D0AD4CE.94A72E58@yifan.net>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2002 12:01:39 -0700
From: Carl Dershem <dershem@cox.net>
Organization: Project Selene
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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: question for Mr. Feist and list
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Craig J. Ries wrote:

> Carl Dershem wrote:
> 
>>It's the kind of thing that makes me glad Ray's picky about having
>>"Magician" done - it could end up an abortion like "Troopers" was.
>>
> 
> You would never know until the movie is actually made.


You would have a pretty good idea, based on who was making the offer, I 
think, just from seeing previous work.


>>It'd be better to have someone really edicated to doing it right
>>(which is what you'd need to put up the kind of money necessary)
>>to make it worthwhile.
>>
> 
> Yet, directors like Peter Jackson and Sam Raimi didn't start out with
> big budget movies...


I haven't seen much of Jackson's work, and can't comment, but Raimi has 
a well established rep from TV.  Without the practice he's had, I doubt 
even he would have the chops to handle "Magician."


cd
-- 
Death to all Absolutists!



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Subject: Re: Murder Question, possible spoiler.
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2002 21:08:06 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: Al Burrell <al.burl@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Murder Question, possible spoiler.
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

At 14:39 15/06/2002 -0400, James Silva wrote:
>Spoiler?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Why are the coins in Murder called "Reals" rather than Royals and/or 
>Sovereigns?
>
>Adieu
>
>Jimmy

Another question about money from me...
Do they have paper money bills in Midkemia, and are they green?

The reason I ask is because in the first chapter, one of the gamblers says 
"Your money's as green as the next fellow's."

I never really noticed about that before... I always thought there were 
just gold, silver, copper etc.

Or have I missed the context of the quote completely?

Al



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Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2002 14:22:34 -0700
Subject: Re: Murder Question, possible spoiler.
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2002 14:22:34 -0700
Subject: Re: Murder Question, possible spoiler.
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Saturday, June 15, 2002, at 11:39 AM, James Silva wrote:

> Spoiler?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Why are the coins in Murder called "Reals" rather than Royals and/or 
> Sovereigns?
>

Local coinage.  They're the same as Royals.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2002 14:23:03 -0700
From: Carl Dershem <dershem@cox.net>
Organization: Project Selene
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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Murder Question, possible spoiler.
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Al Burrell wrote:
> At 14:39 15/06/2002 -0400, James Silva wrote:
> 
>> Spoiler?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Why are the coins in Murder called "Reals" rather than Royals and/or 
>> Sovereigns?
>>
>> Adieu
>>
>> Jimmy
> 
> 
> Another question about money from me...
> Do they have paper money bills in Midkemia, and are they green?
> 
> The reason I ask is because in the first chapter, one of the gamblers 
> says "Your money's as green as the next fellow's."
> 
> I never really noticed about that before... I always thought there were 
> just gold, silver, copper etc.
> 
> Or have I missed the context of the quote completely?
> 
> Al

Hrm.  Perhaps he's a land trader, or it's *really* old copper coinage?  :)

cd
-- 
Death to all Absolutists!



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Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2002 14:24:31 -0700
Subject: Re: Subatai ,was Kulgan and Meecham
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2002 14:24:31 -0700
Subject: Re: Subatai ,was Kulgan and Meecham
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Saturday, June 15, 2002, at 11:52 AM, Gkhd11a@aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 6/14/02 3:38:20 AM Central Daylight Time, 
> raymond@bittersea.com writes:
>
>
> >--- "Raymond E. Feist" <raymond@bittersea.com> wrote:
> >  Example, Captain Subatai from the
> >>  Serpentwar: I don't know if
> >>  he's straight, gay, or sleeps with barnyard fowl,
> >>  and you know what?
> >>  It doesn't matter.
> >>
> >>  Best, R.E.F.
> >
> >Ray,
> >
> >All this time I thought the Pathfinder's name was
> >"Subai" as it was printed throughout the very book you
> >signed for me!
> >Now I do remember at some point in the book, he is
> >referred to as "Subatai" once, and I assumed that was
> >the typo, not the other way around.
> >Learn something new every day.
> >
> >Karl
>
> No, I did change it, and forgot.  Originally it was Subatai, but that
> was too close to Subotai, the Mongol general, so we shortened to
> Subai.
>
> Best, R.E.F.
> --
>
>
> ---
>
> Never attribute to malice what can
> satisfactorily be explained away by stupidity.
>
>
>
>       As long as we are talking about errors, how many years are there 
> between each tear of the gods?  In Shards of a Broken Crown, it says 
> 100, while in Tear of the Gods it says 10.  I would assume that it 
> would be 10 because it is mentioned many times, but I thought that for 
> some reason that might be explored in future Krondor books, that the 
> time changed from 10 to a 100.  What is it?

It's ten.  One hundred is a typo.

BTW, is there a reason your types comes out so small and with no margins 
at the bottom of your messages?

Best, R.E.F.


----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.

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Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2002 14:31:17 -0700
Subject: Re: Murder Question, possible spoiler.
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2002 14:31:17 -0700
Subject: Re: Murder Question, possible spoiler.
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Saturday, June 15, 2002, at 01:08 PM, Al Burrell wrote:

> At 14:39 15/06/2002 -0400, James Silva wrote:
>> Spoiler?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Why are the coins in Murder called "Reals" rather than Royals and/or 
>> Sovereigns?
>>
>> Adieu
>>
>> Jimmy
>
> Another question about money from me...
> Do they have paper money bills in Midkemia, and are they green?

No paper money.
>
> The reason I ask is because in the first chapter, one of the gamblers 
> says "Your money's as green as the next fellow's."
>
> I never really noticed about that before... I always thought there were 
> just gold, silver, copper etc.
>
> Or have I missed the context of the quote completely?
>
> Al
>
>
>

If you read closely, it's made clear he's talking about the copper 
coins.  Copper turns green when tarnished.  It's a play on words.

Best, R.E.F.

----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2002 14:29:58 -0700
Subject: Re: question for Mr. Feist and list
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On Saturday, June 15, 2002, at 12:01 PM, Carl Dershem wrote:

> Craig J. Ries wrote:
>
>> Carl Dershem wrote:
>>> It's the kind of thing that makes me glad Ray's picky about having
>>> "Magician" done - it could end up an abortion like "Troopers" was.
>>>
>> You would never know until the movie is actually made.
>
>
> You would have a pretty good idea, based on who was making the offer, I 
> think, just from seeing previous work.
>
>
>>> It'd be better to have someone really edicated to doing it right
>>> (which is what you'd need to put up the kind of money necessary)
>>> to make it worthwhile.
>>>
>> Yet, directors like Peter Jackson and Sam Raimi didn't start out with
>> big budget movies...
>
>
> I haven't seen much of Jackson's work, and can't comment, but Raimi has 
> a well established rep from TV.  Without the practice he's had, I doubt 
> even he would have the chops to handle "Magician."
>
>
>
>

Jackson's a New Zealand director who had lots of quirky films under his 
belt, Heavenly Creatures, Meet the Feebles, Dead Alive, etc.  His 
biggest film prior to LotR was probably The Frighteners, which was a 
flop, but a pretty good film I thought, staring Michael J. Fox.

Ramimi started in features, with is low budget Living Dead, Army of 
Darkness, etc. stuff.  His TV shows gave him the juice to land a job 
like Spiderman.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: Al Burrell <al.burl@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Murder Question, possible spoiler.
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2002 23:06:43 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: Al Burrell <al.burl@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Murder Question, possible spoiler.
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

At 14:31 15/06/2002 -0700, Raymond Feist wrote:

>On Saturday, June 15, 2002, at 01:08 PM, Al Burrell wrote:
>
>>At 14:39 15/06/2002 -0400, James Silva wrote:
>>>Spoiler?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Why are the coins in Murder called "Reals" rather than Royals and/or 
>>>Sovereigns?
>>>
>>>Adieu
>>>
>>>Jimmy
>>
>>Another question about money from me...
>>Do they have paper money bills in Midkemia, and are they green?
>
>No paper money.
>>
>>The reason I ask is because in the first chapter, one of the gamblers 
>>says "Your money's as green as the next fellow's."
>>
>>I never really noticed about that before... I always thought there were 
>>just gold, silver, copper etc.
>>
>>Or have I missed the context of the quote completely?
>>
>>Al
>>
>>
>
>If you read closely, it's made clear he's talking about the copper 
>coins.  Copper turns green when tarnished.  It's a play on words.
>
>Best, R.E.F.

Ah right. Sorry I guess I missed that bit.
*Goes to read that part again*

Thanks
Al



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From: Grandad Rufus <rufo@bigwig.net>
Subject: Re: Murder
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2002 10:16:41 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: Grandad Rufus <rufo@bigwig.net>
Subject: Re: Murder
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In article <F122epsoUdtpzvWU5pI0001dce2@hotmail.com>, John Jefffries
<johncjeffries@hotmail.com> writes
>
>Just recieved my copy, looking forward to it, just wishing school and work 
>didn't interfere with my reading time.
>
>John
>
>

I think Ray and Joel deserve a hearty "Well Done". Great story guys.

-- 
*******
Grandad Rufus.

It's not that I have a dirty mind, you understand.
It's just that so many of my thoughts leave muddy little footprints...



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Subject: Daughter of the Empire - Possible Spoilers
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From: BH10BH000@aol.com
Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2002 15:37:03 EDT
Subject: Daughter of the Empire - Possible Spoilers
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Spoilers
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
Spoilers
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
Spoilers

    I've just started reading the Servant of the Empire, however its been a 
long time since I read Daughter. I just have a few questions to help me 
remind myself of the situation and just out of general interest.

1. What was Papewaios rank?
2. What did Mara's dead husband do that resulted in him having to fall on his 
blade?
3. What were the events in the Minwanabi household during the Warlord's 
birthday celebrations that lead to Jingu having to fall on his sword?

Thank you very much

Ben















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Subject: Re: Daughter of the Empire - Possible Spoilers
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Dennis Groome" <nallix@cox.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Daughter of the Empire - Possible Spoilers
Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2002 15:02:12 -0500
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-Dennis H. Groome V
ICQ: 11430261 AIM/Yahoo: AmoNympham
Microsoft Messenger: marcus_giovani@hotmail.com


----- Original Message -----
From: <BH10BH000@aol.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Sunday, June 16, 2002 2:37 PM
Subject: Daughter of the Empire - Possible Spoilers


> Spoilers
> -
> -
> -
> -
> -
> -
> -
> Spoilers
> -
> -
> -
> -
> -
> -
> -
> Spoilers
>
>     I've just started reading the Servant of the Empire, however its been a
> long time since I read Daughter. I just have a few questions to help me
> remind myself of the situation and just out of general interest.
>
> 1. What was Papewaios rank?

First Strike Leader, which should make him just below Keyoke who is Force
Commander

> 2. What did Mara's dead husband do that resulted in him having to fall on his
> blade?

He said the Warlord, Almecho would wait for him and could sleep in needra
shit.  Then he said his father could piss in the river, but only downstream
so as not to polute his lands.

> 3. What were the events in the Minwanabi household during the Warlord's
> birthday celebrations that lead to Jingu having to fall on his sword?
>

Teani had seduced Shimizu (a Strike Leader, maybe even Force Commander, I'm
not sure) and brought him with her to meet Mara.  Mara threatened to reveal
that Teani was an Anasati spy, which brought Shimizu into conflict between
his love for the courtesan and his loyalty to Jingu.  Teani then attacked
Mara and Shimizu pulled her off and threw her onto the rigged balcony.  This
wouldn't have been so bad had Shimizu himself then turned to attack Mara in
an attempt to leave no witnesses to conflict his story.  This whole scene
violated Jingu's surety that neither he not members of his house would
attack the guests.



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From: "Henrik Grotle" <henrik@arasoft.no>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Daughter of the Empire - Possible Spoilers
Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 00:31:19 +0200
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> > 3. What were the events in the Minwanabi household during the Warlord's
> > birthday celebrations that lead to Jingu having to fall on his sword?
> >
>
> Teani had seduced Shimizu (a Strike Leader, maybe even Force Commander, I'm
> not sure) and brought him with her to meet Mara.  Mara threatened to reveal
> that Teani was an Anasati spy, which brought Shimizu into conflict between
> his love for the courtesan and his loyalty to Jingu.  Teani then attacked
> Mara and Shimizu pulled her off and threw her onto the rigged balcony. This
> wouldn't have been so bad had Shimizu himself then turned to attack Mara in
> an attempt to leave no witnesses to conflict his story.  This whole scene
> violated Jingu's surety that neither he not members of his house would
> attack the guests.

It was one of the Warlords pets (Great ones) that brought clarity on what
had happened by "replaying" the incident by using his magic. Only the
visuals could be replayed though so nothing of what had been said could be
know by other than the ones that where there. Mara had kept a outward sign
of calmness while Teani had seemed coloured by emotion. IIRC Papewaio got
killed in this incident.

--
Henrik Grotle



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Subject: Re: Daughter of the Empire - Possible Spoilers
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Dennis Groome" <nallix@cox.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Daughter of the Empire - Possible Spoilers
Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2002 17:43:47 -0500
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-Dennis H. Groome V
ICQ: 11430261 AIM/Yahoo: AmoNympham
Microsoft Messenger: marcus_giovani@hotmail.com


----- Original Message -----
From: "Henrik Grotle" <henrik@arasoft.no>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Sunday, June 16, 2002 5:31 PM
Subject: Re: Daughter of the Empire - Possible Spoilers


>
> It was one of the Warlords pets (Great ones) that brought clarity on what
> had happened by "replaying" the incident by using his magic. Only the
> visuals could be replayed though so nothing of what had been said could be
> know by other than the ones that where there. Mara had kept a outward sign
> of calmness while Teani had seemed coloured by emotion. IIRC Papewaio got
> killed in this incident.

Pape got killed the night before by the "thief."  A Minnwanabe servant
posing as a thief snuck into Mara's quarters, a struggle ensued and Pape
killed the thief, but not before taking a dagger under his arm.  During the
incident Nacoya threw flammables on a lantern and started a fire to draw
attention.  In the aftermath, Shimizu struck Papewaio down, but since there
were no witnesses other than Mara herself she was forced to agree that the
thief was not sent by Jingu.



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From: "James & Celeste Matlock" <jmatlock@cox.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Happy Father's Day
Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2002 16:40:43 -0700
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James & Celeste Matlock" <jmatlock@cox.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Happy Father's Day
Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2002 16:40:43 -0700
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Here in the U.S. we celebrate Father's Day today as a
way to acknowledge and show appreciation for our fathers
(or father figures in some cases).  

So here's to you Ray and every other father (and father's 
to be) on this list.

Cheers,

Jim



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Subject: Re: Daughter of the Empire - Possible Spoilers
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Henrik Grotle" <henrik@arasoft.no>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Daughter of the Empire - Possible Spoilers
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> > of calmness while Teani had seemed coloured by emotion. IIRC Papewaio got
> > killed in this incident.
>
> Pape got killed the night before by the "thief."  A Minnwanabe servant
> posing as a thief snuck into Mara's quarters, a struggle ensued and Pape
> killed the thief, but not before taking a dagger under his arm.  During the
> incident Nacoya threw flammables on a lantern and started a fire to draw
> attention.  In the aftermath, Shimizu struck Papewaio down, but since there
> were no witnesses other than Mara herself she was forced to agree that the
> thief was not sent by Jingu.
>

Oh yes, that's true, how could I forget? Was it Lujan who guarded Mara's
suite that night then?

Henrik.



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Henrik Grotle wrote:

>>>of calmness while Teani had seemed coloured by emotion. IIRC Papewaio
>>>
>got
>
>>>killed in this incident.
>>>
>>Pape got killed the night before by the "thief."  A Minnwanabe servant
>>posing as a thief snuck into Mara's quarters, a struggle ensued and Pape
>>killed the thief, but not before taking a dagger under his arm.  During
>>
>the
>
>>incident Nacoya threw flammables on a lantern and started a fire to draw
>>attention.  In the aftermath, Shimizu struck Papewaio down, but since
>>
>there
>
>>were no witnesses other than Mara herself she was forced to agree that the
>>thief was not sent by Jingu.
>>
>
>Oh yes, that's true, how could I forget? Was it Lujan who guarded Mara's
>suite that night then?
>
No, it was Arakasi. Mara needed him to gather information, so she chose 
him as honour guard  despite his ineptness with the sword.

Marilyn.





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Subject: Re: Daughter of the Empire - Possible Spoilers
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Henrik Grotle" <henrik@arasoft.no>
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Subject: Re: Daughter of the Empire - Possible Spoilers
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> >Oh yes, that's true, how could I forget? Was it Lujan who guarded Mara's
> >suite that night then?
> >
> No, it was Arakasi. Mara needed him to gather information, so she chose
> him as honour guard  despite his ineptness with the sword.

Ah, yes, thanks for clearing that up :-)

Henrik



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Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 04:39:48 EDT
Subject: Re: Daughter of the Empire - Possible Spoilers
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*** EOOH ***
From: BH10BH000@aol.com
Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 04:39:48 EDT
Subject: Re: Daughter of the Empire - Possible Spoilers
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Thanks, very useful and now I can read Servant knowing what went on.
Ben



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References: <1aa.3c300a2.2a3e42df@aol.com> <028601c21570$b9ab0ab0$0200a8c0@D1N09511> <001301c21585$98f59460$5f2b76d9@acoma> <031a01c21587$4a5d4530$0200a8c0@D1N09511> <052201c215ca$2ec27c30$5ac8a8c0@mercatus.local>
Subject: Re: Daughter of the Empire - Possible Spoilers
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Dennis Groome" <nallix@cox.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Daughter of the Empire - Possible Spoilers
Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 07:39:44 -0500
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-Dennis H. Groome V
ICQ: 11430261 AIM/Yahoo: AmoNympham
Microsoft Messenger: marcus_giovani@hotmail.com


----- Original Message -----
From: "Henrik Grotle" <henrik@arasoft.no>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Monday, June 17, 2002 1:42 AM
Subject: Re: Daughter of the Empire - Possible Spoilers


> > > of calmness while Teani had seemed coloured by emotion. IIRC Papewaio
> got
> > > killed in this incident.
> >
> > Pape got killed the night before by the "thief."  A Minnwanabe servant
> > posing as a thief snuck into Mara's quarters, a struggle ensued and Pape
> > killed the thief, but not before taking a dagger under his arm.  During
> the
> > incident Nacoya threw flammables on a lantern and started a fire to draw
> > attention.  In the aftermath, Shimizu struck Papewaio down, but since
> there
> > were no witnesses other than Mara herself she was forced to agree that the
> > thief was not sent by Jingu.
> >
>
> Oh yes, that's true, how could I forget? Was it Lujan who guarded Mara's
> suite that night then?


no, Lujan and Keyoke remained at the Acoma estates to defend it.  Arakasi
stood vigil that night.



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Subject: Re: Happy Father's Day
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 17:54:09 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: Will Menzies <will.menzies@btinternet.com>
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Aye

Fathers Day made it over to the UK when I was a child - a bit confusing to 
have a Mother's Day and then a Father's Day popping up out of nowhere!

Happy Father's Day to all you Dad's out there anyway

Will Menzies

At 16:40 16/06/02 -0700, you wrote:
>Here in the U.S. we celebrate Father's Day today as a
>way to acknowledge and show appreciation for our fathers
>(or father figures in some cases).
>
>So here's to you Ray and every other father (and father's
>to be) on this list.
>
>Cheers,
>
>Jim



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Subject: Another question...
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Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 10:13:08 -0700 (PDT)
From: Ben <volsballa34@yahoo.com>
Subject: Another question...
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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How come people like Silvia Esterbrook never get pregnant after having
sex with so many men without any mention of her using some kind of
protection against it? Or is there even some kind of protection
available on Midkemia? It seems that only married people have babies
in your stories...is that because they stop using protection (if there
is any) or is that just the way it is on Midkemia? (sorry if this
question sounds dumb or irrelevant to anything I was just wondering)
Thanks!

Ben



---------------------------------
Do You Yahoo!?
Sign-up for Video Highlights of 2002 FIFA World Cup

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From: "David P. Rouse" <viperphi@ezaccess.net>
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Subject: RE: Another question...
Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 13:48:17 -0400
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*** EOOH ***
From: "David P. Rouse" <viperphi@ezaccess.net>
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Subject: RE: Another question...
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Most likely the rhythm method and she knows her body's schedule. The egg
exists, typically, for a 24 hour period in each cycle. The sperm has a
48 hour life span. Since the female body releases, normally, only one
egg once on the 14th (average) day (out of 28), she can have a pretty
good idea of when she can and when she can't.

That was, of course, a shot in the dark and the above figures are off
the top of my head so please don't quote me... Or act irresponsibly for
that matter *g*

Sincerely,

David P. Rouse
Force PC


-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Ben
>Sent: Monday, June 17, 2002 1:13 PM
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: Another question...
>
>How come people like Silvia Esterbrook never get pregnant after having
>sex with so many men without any mention of her using some kind of
>protection against it? Or is there even some kind of protection
>available on Midkemia? It seems that only married people have babies in
>your stories...is that because they stop using protection (if there is
>any) or is that just the way it is on Midkemia? (sorry if this question
>sounds dumb or irrelevant to anything I was just wondering) Thanks!
>Ben
>
>
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Sign-up for Video Highlights of 2002 FIFA World Cup
>
>
>---
>[This E-mail scanned for viruses by IAS, an Archiventure Company]
>


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From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re: Murder Question, possible spoiler.
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Two more questions?

1. Why is Tith-Onanka spelled Onaka in Murder?


2. Isn't "Kilian" supposedto haver one L, she has two in Murder "Killian"

3. Why so many "eh's" in peoples conversations? Is this a regional dialect 
thing?

Thanks

Jimmy


>From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: Re: Murder Question, possible spoiler.
>Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2002 14:22:34 -0700
>
>
>On Saturday, June 15, 2002, at 11:39 AM, James Silva wrote:
>
>>Spoiler?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Why are the coins in Murder called "Reals" rather than Royals and/or
>>Sovereigns?
>>
>
>Local coinage.  They're the same as Royals.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
>stupidity.
>


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.



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From: Nathan <nathan@irish4ever.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re:Another question...
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 11:39:04 -0700 (PDT)
From: Nathan <nathan@irish4ever.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re:Another question...
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Ben <volsballa34@yahoo.com> wrote:
>How come people like Silvia Esterbrook never get pregnant after
>having sex with so many men without any mention of her using some
>kind of protection against it?

The answer is simple: she's very lucky and has Ruthia's blessing.

May Ruthia protect you all! ;)

Father Nathan



_____________________________________________________________
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---------- http://www.irish4ever.com -----------

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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: Al Burrell <al.burl@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Happy Father's Day
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020617175254.00a117d0@mail.btinternet.com>
References: <NDBBKHPIGLBALHEIODGDKEGGCNAA.jmatlock@cox.net>
 <p05111b01b92bbe161ffb@[66.75.147.9]>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 19:47:54 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: Al Burrell <al.burl@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Happy Father's Day
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

It's strange that the UK and US celebrate Father's Day on the same date, 
but Mother's Day on different dates.

Al

At 17:54 17/06/2002 +0100, Will Menzies wrote:
>Aye
>
>Fathers Day made it over to the UK when I was a child - a bit confusing to 
>have a Mother's Day and then a Father's Day popping up out of nowhere!
>
>Happy Father's Day to all you Dad's out there anyway
>
>Will Menzies
>
>At 16:40 16/06/02 -0700, you wrote:
>>Here in the U.S. we celebrate Father's Day today as a
>>way to acknowledge and show appreciation for our fathers
>>(or father figures in some cases).
>>
>>So here's to you Ray and every other father (and father's
>>to be) on this list.
>>
>>Cheers,
>>
>>Jim



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 11:51:39 -0700
Subject: Re: Another question...
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Monday, June 17, 2002, at 10:13 AM, Ben wrote:

> How come people like Silvia Esterbrook never get pregnant after having 
> sex with so many men without any mention of her using some kind of 
> protection against it? Or is there even some kind of protection 
> available on Midkemia? It seems that only married people have babies in 
> your stories...is that because they stop using protection (if there is 
> any) or is that just the way it is on Midkemia? (sorry if this question 
> sounds dumb or irrelevant to anything I was just wondering) Thanks!
>

Of course there's protection available.  Birth control didn't spring 
into existence when the pill was introduced in the 1960's.  And besides, 
there's loads of magic for sale to people with the means on Midkemia.  I 
don't think we need to belabor the point.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.

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Subject: Re: Murder Question, possible spoiler.
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 11:52:40 -0700
Subject: Re: Murder Question, possible spoiler.
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Monday, June 17, 2002, at 11:29 AM, James Silva wrote:

> Two more questions?
>
> 1. Why is Tith-Onanka spelled Onaka in Murder?

Typo.
>
>
> 2. Isn't "Kilian" supposedto haver one L, she has two in Murder 
> "Killian"

Typo.

>
> 3. Why so many "eh's" in peoples conversations? Is this a regional 
> dialect thing?

Joel likes "eh's?"

Best, R.E.F.

----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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From: "Wouter Durnez" <arutha_of_krondor@hotmail.com>
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Haha, magic really can solve every problem you can think of :)
The good side about fantasy-worlds, ofcourse :)


>From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: Re: Another question...
>Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 11:51:39 -0700
>
>
>On Monday, June 17, 2002, at 10:13 AM, Ben wrote:
>
>>How come people like Silvia Esterbrook never get pregnant after having
>>sex with so many men without any mention of her using some kind of
>>protection against it? Or is there even some kind of protection
>>available on Midkemia? It seems that only married people have babies in
>>your stories...is that because they stop using protection (if there is
>>any) or is that just the way it is on Midkemia? (sorry if this question
>>sounds dumb or irrelevant to anything I was just wondering) Thanks!
>>
>
>Of course there's protection available.  Birth control didn't spring
>into existence when the pill was introduced in the 1960's.  And besides,
>there's loads of magic for sale to people with the means on Midkemia.  I
>don't think we need to belabor the point.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
>stupidity.




_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.



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From: "Susan" <susanandderek@freemail.absa.co.za>
To: "FEISTFANS-L@cornell. edu \(E-mail\)" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Honoured Enemy
Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 21:56:39 +0200
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Hi All

My fiance has finally agreed to purchase "Betrayal","Assassins","Tear of the
Gods" and "Honoured Enemy". What I would like to know is where "Honoured
Enemy" fits in as once I have the books, I will start again at "Magician"
New Revised Edition.

Thank You

Derek



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From: Russell.S.Teeter@kp.org
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Another question...
Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 12:44:22 -0700
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In more ways than one.  I love the way it is used in Joel's world with his 
books with the Spider Sect.  Especially with Doria.  One things though.  I 
just received and started reading Murder in LaMut, and it is really scary 
the way these 3 characters can be transposed within worlds.  Sometimes I 
don't know what series I am reading.

Russell S. Teeter





>Haha, magic really can solve every problem you can think of :)
>The good side about fantasy-worlds, ofcourse :)


>From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: Re: Another question...
>Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 11:51:39 -0700
>
>
>On Monday, June 17, 2002, at 10:13 AM, Ben wrote:
>
>>How come people like Silvia Esterbrook never get pregnant after having
>>sex with so many men without any mention of her using some kind of
>>protection against it? Or is there even some kind of protection
>>available on Midkemia? It seems that only married people have babies in
>>your stories...is that because they stop using protection (if there is
>>any) or is that just the way it is on Midkemia? (sorry if this question
>>sounds dumb or irrelevant to anything I was just wondering) Thanks!
>>
>
>Of course there's protection available.  Birth control didn't spring
>into existence when the pill was introduced in the 1960's.  And besides,
>there's loads of magic for sale to people with the means on Midkemia.  I
>don't think we need to belabor the point.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
>stupidity.

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> > available on Midkemia? It seems that only married people have babies in 
> > your stories...is that because they stop using protection (if there is 


Minor spoilers from RoaMP, SoaBK, Magician, and the Empire series...





See, I'm in the middle of re-reading the Serpentwar Saga. I just started RoaMP, 
and read where we find out that Rosalyn had a child as a result of Stephan's 
rape. Obviously with a rape it's unlikely that anyone is using protection, but 
there's an example of unmarried people having babies.

There are many references in the first two books of this series on how many 
bastard children Otto von Darkmoor fathered, so there's another example. Back 
in Magician, Pug was a father before he was married (William was born while he 
was in training at the Assembly, if you recall). And while I don't know if I 
can trust my memory on this one, doesn't Miranda end up pregnant around the end 
of SoaBK?

It happens with some regularity, it's just more frequently followed up by 
marriage than it is today. That makes sense, since in Midkemia most women 
wouldn't be able to support a family by themselves -- the career opportunities 
just aren't there, for the most part.


In the Empire series, Mara had a child from Kevin, and they certainly weren't 
married. That series also mentions a potion that could be drunk by the woman 
before or after sex, that was supposed to prevent pregnancy, IIRC. That's not 
the same world as Midkemia, of course, but I assumed something similar would be 
available in Midkemia as well (if not before the time of the Riftwar, then 
certainly after it, as trade began between Midkemia and Kelewan).



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From: "Joseph Benckert" <jbenckert@sc.rr.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Murder Question, possible spoiler.
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I'm thinking he also likes to swear :)
Or was that Ray with the swear words at the end of some of the chapters?

Joey

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Raymond Feist" <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Monday, June 17, 2002 2:52 PM
Subject: Re: Murder Question, possible spoiler.


> 
> On Monday, June 17, 2002, at 11:29 AM, James Silva wrote:
> 
> > Two more questions?
> >
> > 1. Why is Tith-Onanka spelled Onaka in Murder?
> 
> Typo.
> >
> >
> > 2. Isn't "Kilian" supposedto haver one L, she has two in Murder 
> > "Killian"
> 
> Typo.
> 
> >
> > 3. Why so many "eh's" in peoples conversations? Is this a regional 
> > dialect thing?
> 
> Joel likes "eh's?"
> 
> Best, R.E.F.
> 
> ----
> 
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
> stupidity.
> 
> 



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Subject: Re: Honoured Enemy
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 have honoured enemy and murder in lamut come out in the U.S. yet? I
went to Barnes and Noble today and couldnt seem to find it so i was
just wondering. Thanks
Ben W.
  Susan <susanandderek@freemail.absa.co.za> wrote:
> Hi All
>
>My fiance has finally agreed to purchase "Betrayal","Assassins","Tear of the
>Gods" and "Honoured Enemy". What I would like to know is where "Honoured
>Enemy" fits in as once I have the books, I will start again at "Magician"
>New Revised Edition.
>
>Thank You
>
>Derek
>


---------------------------------
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--- "Susan" <susanandderek@freemail.absa.co.za> wrote:
<snip>
>What I would like to know is where "Honoured Enemy" fits in <snip>

It is between "Magician Apprentice" and "Magician Master",
i.e. somewhere in the middle of "Magician".


Beware of Prandur's wrath!
Father Nathan



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From: "Cameron Duncan" <cduncan@atinera.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Honoured Enemy
Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 07:37:12 +1000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Cameron Duncan" <cduncan@atinera.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Honoured Enemy
Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 07:37:12 +1000
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They aren't available in the US, nor are they likely to be in the near
future.  You can still order them both online from the UK though.

Cameron
>  -----Original Message-----
>  From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Ben
>  Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2002 7:17 AM
>  To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>  Subject: Re: Honoured Enemy
>
>
>  have honoured enemy and murder in lamut come out in the U.S. yet? I went
>to Barnes and Noble today and couldnt seem to find it so i was just
>wondering. Thanks
>
>  Ben W.
>
>    Susan <susanandderek@freemail.absa.co.za> wrote:
>
>    Hi All
>
>    My fiance has finally agreed to purchase "Betrayal","Assassins","Tear of
>the
>    Gods" and "Honoured Enemy". What I would like to know is where "Honoured
>    Enemy" fits in as once I have the books, I will start again at
>"Magician"
>    New Revised Edition.
>
>    Thank You
>
>    Derek
>
>
>
>
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>--
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 14:45:34 -0700 (PDT)
From: Ben <volsballa34@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Another question...
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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 well actually werent otto von darkmoor and eriks mother actually
married but there marriage had to be annulled? all of your other
points are true i believe so thanks for correcting me! thanks again
Ben W.
  Earl Borah <earl@ncn.com> wrote:
>> > available on Midkemia? It seems that only married people have babies in 
>> > your stories...is that because they stop using protection (if there is 
>
>
>Minor spoilers from RoaMP, SoaBK, Magician, and the Empire series...
>
>
>
>
>
>See, I'm in the middle of re-reading the Serpentwar Saga. I just started RoaMP, 
>and read where we find out that Rosalyn had a child as a result of Stephan's 
>rape. Obviously with a rape it's unlikely that anyone is using protection, but 
>there's an example of unmarried people having babies.
>
>There are many references in the first two books of this series on how many 
>bastard children Otto von Darkmoor fathered, so there's another example. Back 
>in Magician, Pug was a father before he was married (William was born while he 
>was in training at the Assembly, if you recall). And while I don't know if I 
>can trust my memory on this one, doesn't Miranda end up pregnant around the end 
>of SoaBK?
>
>It happens with some regularity, it's just more frequently followed up by 
>marriage than it is today. That makes sense, since in Midkemia most women 
>wouldn't be able to support a family by themselves -- the career opportunities 
>just aren't there, for the most part.
>
>
>In the Empire series, Mara had a child from Kevin, and they certainly weren't 
>married. That series also mentions a potion that could be drunk by the woman 
>before or after sex, that was supposed to prevent pregnancy, IIRC. That's not 
>the same world as Midkemia, of course, but I assumed something similar would be 
>available in Midkemia as well (if not before the time of the Riftwar, then 
>certainly after it, as trade began between Midkemia and Kelewan).
>


---------------------------------
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Sign-up for Video Highlights of 2002 FIFA World Cup

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From: "Steve Weghorn" <pelvislives@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Finished MiL, no spoilers
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Subject: Finished MiL, no spoilers
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Mr. Feist I just finished reading Murder, and would like to thank you
for another great book, and if Mr. Rosenberg is still on the list I
would like to thank him as well, and just as soon as I get some more
money I will be going and checking out your other books, to see the
three mercenaries in their home planet.

                                                             Thanks
                                                        Steve Weghorn

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Subject: Re: Finished MiL, no spoilers
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Joseph Benckert" <jbenckert@sc.rr.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Finished MiL, no spoilers
Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 20:09:17 -0400
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I wouldn't mind picking up one of Joel's books myself. Can anyone
suggest a good first book?

Joey
>  ----- Original Message ----- 
>  From: Steve Weghorn 
>  To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu 
>  Sent: Monday, June 17, 2002 6:51 PM
>  Subject: Finished MiL, no spoilers
>
>
>  Mr. Feist I just finished reading Murder, and would like to thank you for another great book, and if Mr. Rosenberg is still on the list I would like to thank him as well, and just as soon as I get some more money I will be going and checking out your other books, to see the three mercenaries in their home planet.
>								Thanks
>							   Steve Weghorn
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Joseph Benckert wrote:
> I wouldn't mind picking up one of Joel's books myself. Can anyone 
> suggest a good first book?
>  
> Joey

I"d suggest "The sleeping Dragon."  it's the beginning in his "Guardiand 
of the flame" series, whjich makes it hold up well, it stands on its 
own, which is another bonus, and it's a hell of a book.

cd
-- 
Death to all Absolutists!



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Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 18:45:12 -0700
Subject: Re: Murder Question, possible spoiler.
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Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 18:45:12 -0700
Subject: Re: Murder Question, possible spoiler.
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On Monday, June 17, 2002, at 02:14 PM, Joseph Benckert wrote:

> I'm thinking he also likes to swear :)
> Or was that Ray with the swear words at the end of some of the chapters?
>
> Joey
>

That's Joel.  My characters aren't as potty mouth as his are.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 12:12:41 +1000 (GMT+1000)
From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Another question...
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Barrenness?

>
> How come people like Silvia Esterbrook never get pregnant after having sex with so many men without any mention of her using some kind of protection against it? Or is there even some kind of protection available on Midkemia? It seems that only married people have babies in your stories...is that because they stop using protection (if there is any) or is that just the way it is on Midkemia? (sorry if this question sounds dumb or irrelevant to anything I was just wondering) Thanks!
>
> Ben
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Sign-up for Video Highlights of 2002 FIFA World Cup

Thanks
Darragh
================================================
msn: iamtheporkfireman@hotmail.com

"Believe or die - thank you O lord for all those
 options" - Bill Hicks.
================================================



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From: "A Irving" <s355156@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Happy Father's Day
Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 12:42:23 +1000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "A Irving" <s355156@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Happy Father's Day
Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 12:42:23 +1000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Fathers day here in Australia is the 1st September.

CIAO,
      Aaron

http://www.hallofworlds.net/kerr/main.php
http://www.nightshadow.co.uk 


> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]
> On Behalf Of Al Burrell
> Sent: Tuesday, 18 June 2002 4:48 AM
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Subject: Re: Happy Father's Day
> 
> It's strange that the UK and US celebrate Father's Day on the same date,
> but Mother's Day on different dates.
> 
> Al
> 
> At 17:54 17/06/2002 +0100, Will Menzies wrote:
> >Aye
> >
> >Fathers Day made it over to the UK when I was a child - a bit confusing
> to
> >have a Mother's Day and then a Father's Day popping up out of nowhere!
> >
> >Happy Father's Day to all you Dad's out there anyway
> >
> >Will Menzies
> >
> >At 16:40 16/06/02 -0700, you wrote:
> >>Here in the U.S. we celebrate Father's Day today as a
> >>way to acknowledge and show appreciation for our fathers
> >>(or father figures in some cases).
> >>
> >>So here's to you Ray and every other father (and father's
> >>to be) on this list.
> >>
> >>Cheers,
> >>
> >>Jim



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Subject: Re:Honoured Enemy
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 12:21:46 +0000
Subject: Re:Honoured Enemy
From: "Sylvain Guehl" <fenyxkell@demo.xandmail.com>
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You should read it only after you finish Magician Master I guess.


---------- Entête initiale -----------

De      : owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
A          : "FEISTFANS-L@cornell. edu \(E-mail\)" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Cc          : 
Date      : Mon, 17 Jun 2002 21:56:39 +0200
Sujet : Honoured Enemy

> Hi All
> 
> My fiance has finally agreed to purchase "Betrayal","Assassins","Tear of the
> Gods" and "Honoured Enemy". What I would like to know is where "Honoured
> Enemy" fits in as once I have the books, I will start again at "Magician"
> New Revised Edition.
> 
> Thank You
> 
> Derek
> 
> 



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Subject: Re: Honoured Enemy & (MiL Timeframes)
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*** EOOH ***
From: feistfan@rogers.com
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Honoured Enemy & (MiL Timeframes)
Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 12:27:00 +0000
X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at fep01-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com from [127.0.0.1] using ID <feistfan@rogers.com> at Tue, 18 Jun 2002 08:27:00 -0400
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Ben,
I was wondering when MiL takes place.  I know its sometime in the
riftwar, that much I gathered from reading the 1st chapter but I
coulden't figure out when exactly in the riftwar it takes place.  Is
it before or after honoured enemy??  Thanks,

Rob K.
> 
> From: Ben <volsballa34@yahoo.com>
> Date: 2002/06/17 Mon PM 09:16:45 GMT
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Subject: Re: Honoured Enemy
> 
> 
>  have honoured enemy and murder in lamut come out in the U.S. yet? I went to Barnes and Noble today and couldnt seem to find it so i was just wondering. Thanks
> Ben W.
>   Susan <susanandderek@freemail.absa.co.za> wrote: Hi All
> 
> My fiance has finally agreed to purchase "Betrayal","Assassins","Tear of the
> Gods" and "Honoured Enemy". What I would like to know is where "Honoured
> Enemy" fits in as once I have the books, I will start again at "Magician"
> New Revised Edition.
> 
> Thank You
> 
> Derek
> 
> 
> 
> ---------------------------------
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Sign-up for Video Highlights of 2002 FIFA World Cup
> 

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Message-ID: <003f01c216cc$4b751920$2201020a@brightontown.com.au>
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From: "Cameron Gurr" <gurrc@brightontown.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
References: <GXWICA$IwZPFHkaj4QTHb_jo8jHewH71tAWd_UK1O5slGsmV@demo.xandmail.com>
Subject: Two Projects?
Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 21:30:20 +0800
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Cameron Gurr" <gurrc@brightontown.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Two Projects?
Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 21:30:20 +0800
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

How does everyone (by everyone I mean those on the list who consider
themselves writers, professional or otherwise) feel about the challenge of
writing two projects at one time?

I'm obviously leading to something. I have a fantasy novel that I'm writing
at the moment. And I also have an idea for a crime/action novel that I'm
considering having as a side-project for those times when the fantasy story
stalls up.

Here's another problem, both books will be based around a single cental
character. What's the risk of both these characters coming out exactly the
same?

Cameron

"I'm gonna get this tattoo changed to another girl's name."
    - The Cruel Sea



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*** EOOH ***
From: Scott.VanderPloeg@kctcs.edu
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: RE: Honoured Enemy
Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 10:18:33 -0400
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Hope this isn't on the FAQ list--
 
Why are these (Honoured Enemy, Murder in LaMut, others?) only available in
UK or Aussie-land?  Is there a problem in the publishing?  Maybe a tiff
between publisher and author?  Moreover, why would these nations have
earlier publishing than the US?  I don't intend ANY national priority here,
but it seems odd that the US publishers, who obviously have a big market and
can sell tons of a book, would miss a chance to publish a book by an author
who has name recognition.  What's the deal here?
 
Scott v/d P

-----Original Message-----
>From: Cameron Duncan [mailto:cduncan@atinera.com.au]
>Sent: Monday, June 17, 2002 4:37 PM
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: RE: Honoured Enemy
>
>
>They aren't available in the US, nor are they likely to be in the near
>future.
>You can still order them both online from the UK though.
> 
>Cameron
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On
>Behalf Of Ben
>Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2002 7:17 AM
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: Re: Honoured Enemy
>
>
>
>have honoured enemy and murder in lamut come out in the U.S. yet? I went to
>Barnes and Noble today and couldnt seem to find it so i was just wondering.
>Thanks 
>
>
>Ben W. 
>
>
>  Susan <susanandderek@freemail.absa.co.za> wrote: 
>
>
>Hi All
>
>My fiance has finally agreed to purchase "Betrayal","Assassins","Tear of the
>Gods" and "Honoured Enemy". What I would like to know is where "Honoured
>Enemy" fits in as once I have the books, I will start again at "Magician"
>New Revised Edition.
>
>Thank You
>
>Derek

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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: Sean Fister <sean@hope.kih.net>
Subject: RE: Honoured Enemy
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 11:21:55 -0400
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: Sean Fister <sean@hope.kih.net>
Subject: RE: Honoured Enemy
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

IIRC, The publisher here in the US wanted to issue them as paperback 
originals which would be a step down for Ray as none of his books have ever 
been published this way.


Sean

At 10:18 AM 6/18/02, you wrote:
>Hope this isn't on the FAQ list--
>
>Why are these (Honoured Enemy, Murder in LaMut, others?) only available in 
>UK or Aussie-land?  Is there a problem in the publishing?  Maybe a tiff 
>between publisher and author?  Moreover, why would these nations have 
>earlier publishing than the US?  I don't intend ANY national priority 
>here, but it seems odd that the US publishers, who obviously have a big 
>market and can sell tons of a book, would miss a chance to publish a book 
>by an author who has name recognition.  What's the deal here?
>
>Scott v/d P
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Cameron Duncan [mailto:cduncan@atinera.com.au]
>Sent: Monday, June 17, 2002 4:37 PM
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: RE: Honoured Enemy
>
>They aren't available in the US, nor are they likely to be in the near 
>future.
>You can still order them both online from the UK though.
>
>Cameron
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu 
>>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Ben
>>Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2002 7:17 AM
>>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>>Subject: Re: Honoured Enemy
>>
>>have honoured enemy and murder in lamut come out in the U.S. yet? I went 
>>to Barnes and Noble today and couldnt seem to find it so i was just 
>>wondering. Thanks
>>
>>Ben W.
>>
>>   Susan <susanandderek@freemail.absa.co.za> wrote:
>>>Hi All
>>>
>>>My fiance has finally agreed to purchase "Betrayal","Assassins","Tear of 
>>>the
>>>Gods" and "Honoured Enemy". What I would like to know is where "Honoured
>>>Enemy" fits in as once I have the books, I will start again at "Magician"
>>>New Revised Edition.
>>>
>>>Thank You
>>>
>>>Derek
>>
>>
>>Do You Yahoo!?
>><http://rd.yahoo.com/welcome/*http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com/fc/en/spl>Sign-up 
>>for Video Highlights of 2002 FIFA World Cup



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From: Dan Parenteau <dan_parenteau2002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Two Projects?
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 08:41:07 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dan Parenteau <dan_parenteau2002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Two Projects?
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Comments in-line -

--- Cameron Gurr <gurrc@brightontown.com.au> wrote:
> How does everyone (by everyone I mean those on the
> list who consider
> themselves writers, professional or otherwise) feel
> about the challenge of
> writing two projects at one time?

It's been my experience that it depends on several
things. Not the least of which is how you schedule
your writing time. Some writers don't have hard and
fast schedules,and write whenever they happen to find
the time. Others, like myself, tend to block off set
periods of time that they plan to write in. This has
been particularly successful for me because I often
find myself in the position of managing several
projects at one time, and I can keep better
differentiate the subject matter, themes, and
characters in my mind as I write. This may not be the
case for others. It just happens that I need things
rather orderly and finite inorder to remain cogent in
my creativity. What type of schedule (or non-schedule)
do you currently abide by?

> 
> I'm obviously leading to something. I have a fantasy
> novel that I'm writing
> at the moment. And I also have an idea for a
> crime/action novel that I'm
> considering having as a side-project for those times
> when the fantasy story
> stalls up.

Assuming you have no deadlines to meet (other than
perhaps your own personal ones)then the "side project"
might not hinder your focus or creativity to the point
where one project is sacrificed or compromised in lieu
of the other. They key point here, is that you feel as
though you have alot to say. Writing becomes better in
practice. I have always believed that one should write
as often and as much as one can. If writing is your
passion, then don't limit yourself or suppress your
talent -- feed it.
> 
> Here's another problem, both books will be based
> around a single cental
> character. What's the risk of both these characters
> coming out exactly the
> same?

Just an opinion based upon my experiences, but if you
can mentally separate the two projects through
effective scheduling of your writing time the risk
will be lower. No matter what methods you consider,
there will always be a risk of creating similarities
in your main characters. That can happen even if your
projects aren't concurrent. It's best to not dwell on
that too much and focus on who the character is and
what s/he means to the storyline at hand. Every
experience is unique. Every persona reacts differently
to different environments. Concede that there may be
similarities that exist in many people, but there will
always be things that separates one from the other.

Dan


=====
Daniel G. Parenteau, D.Sc
16 Rainbow Lane
Gorham, Maine 04038

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com



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Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 09:07:24 -0700
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 09:07:24 -0700
Subject: Re: Honoured Enemy
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On Tuesday, June 18, 2002, at 07:18 AM, Scott.VanderPloeg@kctcs.edu 
wrote:

> Hope this isn't on the FAQ list--
>  
> Why are these (Honoured Enemy, Murder in LaMut, others?) only available 
> in UK or Aussie-land?  Is there a problem in the publishing?  Maybe a 
> tiff between publisher and author?  Moreover, why would these nations 
> have earlier publishing than the US?  I don't intend ANY national 
> priority here, but it seems odd that the US publishers, who obviously 
> have a big market and can sell tons of a book, would miss a chance to 
> publish a book by an author who has name recognition.  What's the deal 
> here?
>

A difference of opinion on how to treat the books.  My US publisher 
wanted to put them out as paperback originals and I said no.  They 
claimed there might be confusion in the market place and people might 
think of them as "second class" projects, to which I replied that 
putting them out as PBO's would just about guarantee that people thought 
they were a step down project, like Tom Clancy's Op Center stuff.   
Given Honoured Enemy hit the Times of London Best Seller List for a few 
weeks in hard cover tells me saying not to PBO's in the US was a good 
idea.  We'll find a home for those books, eventually.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.

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Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 09:04:48 -0700
Subject: Re: Two Projects?
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Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 09:04:48 -0700
Subject: Re: Two Projects?
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
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On Tuesday, June 18, 2002, at 06:30 AM, Cameron Gurr wrote:

> How does everyone (by everyone I mean those on the list who consider
> themselves writers, professional or otherwise) feel about the challenge 
> of
> writing two projects at one time?
>
> I'm obviously leading to something. I have a fantasy novel that I'm 
> writing
> at the moment. And I also have an idea for a crime/action novel that I'm
> considering having as a side-project for those times when the fantasy 
> story
> stalls up.

If you can keep them straight in your own head, there's no problem doing 
two or even three at a time.  Often when I burn out on one project, I 
can squeeze out a page or two on the other before I give up writing all 
together.

>
> Here's another problem, both books will be based around a single cental
> character. What's the risk of both these characters coming out exactly 
> the
> same?
>

Only if you don't know what you're doing.  If the characters are fixed 
in your mind, then they should sound and act differently from one 
another.  One trick is to "cast" actors in the role as you write.  If 
your fantasy hero speaks and moves like, for example, Heath Ledger, 
while your crime hero moves and speaks like Bruce Dern, there's almost 
no chance they'll pick up habits or speaking patters from each other.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Ok, I hate forwarding stuff, but I couldn't resist!  (This is a once 
 in a lifetime event folx!)
References: <000d01c2167e$8c81c380$8c5efea9@ctlayman>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 17:08:08 -0600
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Ok, I hate forwarding stuff, but I couldn't resist!  (This is a once 
 in a lifetime event folx!)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Considering I didn't sign up for this list to receive useless forwarded
emails, maybe next time you should resist.

Craig J. Ries



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Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 18:03:58 -0700
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From: Carl Dershem <dershem@cox.net>
Organization: Project Selene
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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Two Projects?
References: <GXWICA$IwZPFHkaj4QTHb_jo8jHewH71tAWd_UK1O5slGsmV@demo.xandmail.com> <003f01c216cc$4b751920$2201020a@brightontown.com.au>
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Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 18:03:58 -0700
From: Carl Dershem <dershem@cox.net>
Organization: Project Selene
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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Two Projects?
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Cameron Gurr wrote:
> How does everyone (by everyone I mean those on the list who consider
> themselves writers, professional or otherwise) feel about the challenge of
> writing two projects at one time?
> 
> I'm obviously leading to something. I have a fantasy novel that I'm writing
> at the moment. And I also have an idea for a crime/action novel that I'm
> considering having as a side-project for those times when the fantasy story
> stalls up.
> 
> Here's another problem, both books will be based around a single cental
> character. What's the risk of both these characters coming out exactly the
> same?

It's different for different folks, and a lot of it is practice.  I like 
to stick with one major project at a time (my first book is at the 
publisher's right now, and took about 14 months), but a few short 
stories have occasionally forced themselves to the fore.  A friend of 
mine, though, puts out 3 or more books a year, and has no problem 
keeping things straight.

cd
-- 
Death to all Absolutists!



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Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 21:40:35 EDT
Subject: Re: Happy Father's Day
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From: Smoking88@aol.com
Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 21:40:35 EDT
Subject: Re: Happy Father's Day
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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I got to celebrate my first father's day this year. It was something 
specialbecause my birthday just happened to fall on father's day.  Bless all 
the fathers out there.
joe

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*** EOOH ***
From: Gkhd11a@aol.com
Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 21:57:44 EDT
Subject: Re: Subatai ,was Kulgan and Meecham
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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In a message dated 6/15/02 4:47:48 PM Central Daylight Time, 
raymond@bittersea.com writes:


> BTW, is there a reason your types comes out so small and with no margins 
> at the bottom of your messages?
> 
> 

       It looks fine on my computer, I would guess that it's a problem with 
my AOL, or my computer is messing it up when it sends it somehow.  This is a 
really bad computer, it does all sorts of weird things seeming at random.

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Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 15:32:26 +1000
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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: Anestis Kozakis <kenosti@labyrinth.net.au>
Subject: [OT] E-Mail Formatting (Was Re: Subatai ,was Kulgan and Meecham)
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 15:32:26 +1000
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: Anestis Kozakis <kenosti@labyrinth.net.au>
Subject: [OT] E-Mail Formatting (Was Re: Subatai ,was Kulgan and Meecham)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

>In a message dated 6/15/02 4:47:48 PM Central Daylight Time, 
>raymond@bittersea.com writes:
>
>
>>BTW, is there a reason your types comes out so small and with no margins
>>at the bottom of your messages?
>>
>
>
>       It looks fine on my computer, I would guess that it's a 
>problem with my AOL, or my computer is messing it up when it sends 
>it somehow.  This is a really bad computer, it does all sorts of 
>weird things seeming at random.

I wish you would post in plain text.

I have a black background for Eudora on my Macintosh (easier to read 
white text on a black background for me).

Your e-mails keep coming through with black text.

Makes it kind of impossible to read your e-mails, and I have to do 
some minor reformatting.

Remember, e-mail is a means of communication, and you don't need 
fancy fonts or lots of colours to get your point across.

Anestis.
-- 
kenosti@labyrinth.net.au
"A complete list of this film's associate producers
  is available upon request."
    -- In End Credits for "State and Main"



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From: Richard Stevenson <richard.stevenson@team.xtra.co.nz>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: [OT] E-Mail Formatting (Was Re: Subatai ,was Kulgan and Meecham)
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 17:49:57 +1200 (NZST)
From: Richard Stevenson <richard.stevenson@team.xtra.co.nz>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: [OT] E-Mail Formatting (Was Re: Subatai ,was Kulgan and Meecham)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

On Wed, 19 Jun 2002, Anestis Kozakis wrote:

> >In a message dated 6/15/02 4:47:48 PM Central Daylight Time,
> >raymond@bittersea.com writes:
> >
> >       It looks fine on my computer
>
> I wish you would post in plain text.

The message is multipart/alternative (one part plain text, the other
HTML).  The HTML version has a hideous FONT tag that sets the text to
black - I'm willing to bet there's a dain-bramaged mail client developer
out there who assumes that just because he uses black on white, everybody
else does too.  Does your client allow you to specify which format to
display in these cases?  Mine does.

Cheers

R


-- 
Richard Stevenson
Systems Specialist
Xtra Limited
http://www.xtra.co.nz

Email:    richard.stevenson@team.xtra.co.nz
Phone:    +64 9 3555231
Fax:      +64 9 3555260

This email is for the person(s) identified above, and is confidential to
the sender and the person(s).  No one else is authorised to use or
disseminate this email or its contents. The email or its contents do not
necessarily represent the views of Xtra Limited or Telecom.



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*** EOOH ***
From: Gkhd11a@aol.com
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 09:13:05 EDT
Subject: Re: [OT] E-Mail Formatting (Was Re: Subatai ,was Kulgan and Meecham)
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

In a message dated 6/19/02 1:20:12 AM Central Daylight Time, 
richard.stevenson@team.xtra.co.nz writes:


> On Wed, 19 Jun 2002, Anestis Kozakis wrote:
> 
> > >In a message dated 6/15/02 4:47:48 PM Central Daylight Time,
> > >raymond@bittersea.com writes:
> > >
> > >       It looks fine on my computer
> >
> > I wish you would post in plain text.
> 
> The message is multipart/alternative (one part plain text, the other
> HTML).  The HTML version has a hideous FONT tag that sets the text to
> black - I'm willing to bet there's a dain-bramaged mail client developer
> out there who assumes that just because he uses black on white, everybody
> else does too.  Does your client allow you to specify which format to
> display in these cases?  Mine does.

I just use what comes with AOL, and it has practically no options, so I doubt 
that it would let me to chose what format, although I don't know excactly 
what you are talking about.  If I could format it, how should I do it?

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From: "Mark Tonkin" <shadowfire@chariot.net.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
References: <15d.fa165be.2a41dd61@aol.com>
Subject: Re: [OT] E-Mail Formatting (Was Re: Subatai ,was Kulgan and Meecham)
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 23:31:47 +0930
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Mark Tonkin" <shadowfire@chariot.net.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: [OT] E-Mail Formatting (Was Re: Subatai ,was Kulgan and Meecham)
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 23:31:47 +0930
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

People on this list like to receive plain text email.  A quick search on
google led me to this site which seems to describe the problem and how to
fix it quite clearly.

http://members.aol.com/adamkb/aol/mailfaq/#aol6html

- MARK

========================================
Dilbert's rules of order #2:
"I love deadlines.  I especially like the wooshing
sound they make as they go flying by."

----- Original Message -----
>From: Gkhd11a@aol.com
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2002 10:43 PM
>Subject: Re: [OT] E-Mail Formatting (Was Re: Subatai ,was Kulgan and
>Meecham)
>
>I just use what comes with AOL, and it has practically no options, so I
>doubt that it would let me to chose what format, although I don't know
>excactly what you are talking about.  If I could format it, how should I do
>it?
>


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X-PH: V4.1@mailhub2
From: cdunemann <cdunemann@AncientEngineering.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: E-books
Message-ID: <1024467402.3d1021ca3274f@mail.trebuchet.com>
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 06:16:42 +0000 (/etc/localtime)
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*** EOOH ***
From: cdunemann <cdunemann@AncientEngineering.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: E-books
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 06:16:42 +0000 (/etc/localtime)
User-Agent: IMP/PHP IMAP webmail program 2.2.7
X-Originating-IP: 66.202.52.237
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Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I know this has probably been asked before in the past but. Will there be 
any more of Ray's books released in e-book format? I'm running a little 
short of reading material on my pda. 










------------------------------------------------------------
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Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 12:15:52 EDT
Subject: Re: [OT] E-Mail Formatting (Was Re: Subatai ,was Kulgan and Meecham)
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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*** EOOH ***
From: RMAskren@aol.com
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 12:15:52 EDT
Subject: Re: [OT] E-Mail Formatting (Was Re: Subatai ,was Kulgan and Meecham)
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

In a message dated 6/19/2002 10:25:24 AM Eastern Daylight Time, 
shadowfire@chariot.net.au writes:
>People on this list like to receive plain text email.  A quick search on
>google led me to this site which seems to describe the problem and how to
>fix it quite clearly.
>
>http://members.aol.com/adamkb/aol/mailfaq/#aol6html
>
>- MARK


Thanks, Mark. This is a very useful link...if it works. I had downgraded to 
AOL 5.0 because of this problem. However, my new computer runs WinXP which 
can only handle AOL 6 or 7. I guess this e-mail is a test of the fix. I'm 
hoping it comes through as plain text. :-)

-Ralph
Visit Elvandar and the Unoffical Atlas to the Worlds of Raymond E. Feist at
http://www.elvandar.com



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 10:50:20 -0700
Subject: Re: E-books
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Tuesday, June 18, 2002, at 11:16 PM, cdunemann wrote:

> I know this has probably been asked before in the past but. Will there 
> be
> any more of Ray's books released in e-book format? I'm running a little
> short of reading material on my pda.
>

At this point, no.  Until Talon is released in the US, at least.  I also 
don't know how happy Harper is about the results of their first set of 
releases.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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From: "Susan" <susanandderek@freemail.absa.co.za>
To: "FEISTFANS-L@cornell. edu \(E-mail\)" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: South Africa
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 20:52:53 +0200
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Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: "Susan" <susanandderek@freemail.absa.co.za>
To: "FEISTFANS-L@cornell. edu \(E-mail\)" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: South Africa
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 20:52:53 +0200
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Mr Feist

The last time I asked if you would visit SA, you said I would have to
arrange it through a major bookstore here. If I could and I might just be
able to, would you come?



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Subject: Re: Honoured Enemy & 
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From: "Susan" <susanandderek@freemail.absa.co.za>
To: "FEISTFANS-L@cornell. edu \(E-mail\)" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Honoured Enemy & 
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 20:50:51 +0200
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Honoured Enemy is avaliable in South Africa already, but MIL only gets here
in September according to Exclusive Books.

A general question for everybody. Does it really make a difference how the
book is printed? Who gives a d..., as long as the story is good.



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From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Black Guy
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Subject: Black Guy
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 15:52:04 -0400
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Two questions fro ray or anyone who knows.

Is Du Bas-Tyra Guy's proper last name?


If so, Why?

Because he is from (thus the du) Bas-Tyra?

Because he became Duke so he assumed that name?

Or is it more of a title, as in, that's Guy from Bas-Tyra?


Also, would a baron swear fealty to a duke, (for example the Duke of 
Bas-Tyra) or would it go up the chain, that is, a baron swears to an earl 
and the earls swear to the duke. In MIL, it seemed that all the yabon 
baronies were in lamut (and sworn to the earl) while the earl was up in 
yabon with the duke.

The border barronies being the only exception as they swear directly to the 
king?

Thanks

Jimmy

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.



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Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 12:53:04 -0700
Subject: Re: South Africa
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 12:53:04 -0700
Subject: Re: South Africa
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Wednesday, June 19, 2002, at 11:52 AM, Susan wrote:

> Mr Feist
>
> The last time I asked if you would visit SA, you said I would have to
> arrange it through a major bookstore here. If I could and I might just 
> be
> able to, would you come?
>
>
>
>

I'll go anywhere my publisher sends me.  At this point, SA hasn't been 
an option due to the number of books sold there.  But I'd love to spend 
a few days there and sneak in a visit to a winery or two.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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From: Caranorn Aglaredhel <caranorn@cmdnet.lu>
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Organization: House Phoenix
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Unfortunatelly many people confuse titles with a proper name. I'm not 
sure what Ray intended in his books. But as a general rule, a duke would 
be known by his title. That is Guy du Bas-Tyra would be known as 
Bas-Tyra (for example famous Richard Neville, Earl or Warwick known as 
the kingmaker would have been called Warwick on most occasions. So would 
anyone else who bore that title before despite their name being Neville 
or other).

For Guy du Bas-Tyra, if my assumption is correct, we do not know his 
proper name.

As to fealty, few earls in history ever swore allegiance to a duke as 
both are titles of peerage (of course they might have to swear 
allegiance for lands other then those giving them their title (like many 
English kings who were also subjects to teh crown of France for various 
territories)). They would be considered on roughly one level (duke being 
higher in theory, but earls often held more land and therefore power). 
Barons on the other are not part of the peerage and could historically 
be under either a peer or sovereign.

Of course none of this need be true in Ray's world.

Marc aka Caran... back to some lurking in the shadows of this list

P.S.: I finally decided to order the latest paperback today, can't go 
for the hard covers yet due to financial considerations. So I expect 
I'll be reading Honoured Enemy soon.

James Silva wrote:

> Two questions fro ray or anyone who knows.
>
> Is Du Bas-Tyra Guy's proper last name?
>
>
> If so, Why?
>
> Because he is from (thus the du) Bas-Tyra?
>
> Because he became Duke so he assumed that name?
>
> Or is it more of a title, as in, that's Guy from Bas-Tyra?
>
>
> Also, would a baron swear fealty to a duke, (for example the Duke of 
> Bas-Tyra) or would it go up the chain, that is, a baron swears to an 
> earl and the earls swear to the duke. In MIL, it seemed that all the 
> yabon baronies were in lamut (and sworn to the earl) while the earl 
> was up in yabon with the duke.
>
> The border barronies being the only exception as they swear directly 
> to the king?
>
> Thanks
>
> Jimmy




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From: JEEPMONSTER69@aol.com
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 17:55:51 EDT
Subject: Re: Black Guy
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On a related topic, what was Guy's "act of personal honor" related to the 
Borric-Catherine affair? Was it his rolling back the Keshians at Taunton or 
what?

                                                       Peace,
                                                             Matt

"What's a Nubian?"-  Banky

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Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 16:13:39 -0700
Subject: Re: Black Guy
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On Wednesday, June 19, 2002, at 12:52 PM, James Silva wrote:

> Two questions fro ray or anyone who knows.
>
> Is Du Bas-Tyra Guy's proper last name?

Yes.  His family founded the city.
>
>
> If so, Why?
>
> Because he is from (thus the du) Bas-Tyra?
>
> Because he became Duke so he assumed that name?
>
> Or is it more of a title, as in, that's Guy from Bas-Tyra?
>
>
> Also, would a baron swear fealty to a duke, (for example the Duke of 
> Bas-Tyra) or would it go up the chain, that is, a baron swears to an 
> earl and the earls swear to the duke. In MIL, it seemed that all the 
> yabon baronies were in lamut (and sworn to the earl) while the earl was 
> up in yabon with the duke.

Yup.  Up the chain.

>
> The border barronies being the only exception as they swear directly to 
> the king?

Not the only, but the only land holders.  Court barons also swear 
directly to their Duke, Prince, or King.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
From: Smoking88@aol.com
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 19:19:39 EDT
Subject: Re: Honoured Enemy & 
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

As REF has  stated before,  he writes to make money.  I'm sure he makes more 
on hardcover than paperback.  hardcovers sell from 20 to  40 dollars new 
while paperbacks 6 to ten dollars new if your book was selling which would 
you prefer?
joe

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Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 16:46:19 -0700
Subject: Re: Honoured Enemy & 
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 16:46:19 -0700
Subject: Re: Honoured Enemy & 
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Wednesday, June 19, 2002, at 04:19 PM, Smoking88@aol.com wrote:

> As REF has  stated before,  he writes to make money.  I'm sure he makes 
> more on hardcover than paperback.  hardcovers sell from 20 to  40 
> dollars new while paperbacks 6 to ten dollars new if your book was 
> selling which would you prefer?
>

It's not that simple.

The bulk of my income comes, over the long haul, from paperbacks.

It's about marketing issues.

I won't turn this into a clinic on US book marketing, but lets just say 
that I take a long term hit if I let any of my work come out as 
paperback originals after twenty years of hardcover originals.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.

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Subject: MIL
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Joseph Benckert" <jbenckert@sc.rr.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: MIL
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 22:57:36 -0400
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Fantastic book!!  I found it entirely clever and was enthralled as I turned
each page.  The end was completely unexpected.

It was actually the first murder mystery that I've read and I found myself
chiding myself for not realizing some of the things the characters found
obvious. I'm sold on Joel now and will purchase one of his books soon
(because Talon won't be available for a while :) ).

Ray & Joel: Thanks for a great read.

Joey



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 20:24:40 -0700
Subject: Re: MIL
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On Wednesday, June 19, 2002, at 07:57 PM, Joseph Benckert wrote:

> Fantastic book!!  I found it entirely clever and was enthralled as I 
> turned
> each page.  The end was completely unexpected.
>
> It was actually the first murder mystery that I've read and I found 
> myself
> chiding myself for not realizing some of the things the characters found
> obvious. I'm sold on Joel now and will purchase one of his books soon
> (because Talon won't be available for a while :) ).
>
> Ray & Joel: Thanks for a great read.
>
> Joey
>
>
>
>
You're welcome.

Mysteries are fun to write.  The REALLY great ones (John D. McDonald, 
Ross MacDonald, Donald Westlake, etc. are just non-stop fun).

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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From: "Joel Rosenberg" <joelr@ellegon.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: MIL
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 23:03:04 -0500
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Joel Rosenberg" <joelr@ellegon.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: MIL
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 23:03:04 -0500
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Yeah.  Thanks from me, too.

-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Raymond Feist
>Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2002 10:25 PM
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: Re: MIL
>
>
>
>On Wednesday, June 19, 2002, at 07:57 PM, Joseph Benckert wrote:
>
>> Fantastic book!!  I found it entirely clever and was enthralled as I 
>> turned
>> each page.  The end was completely unexpected.
>>
>> It was actually the first murder mystery that I've read and I found 
>> myself
>> chiding myself for not realizing some of the things the characters found
>> obvious. I'm sold on Joel now and will purchase one of his books soon
>> (because Talon won't be available for a while :) ).
>>
>> Ray & Joel: Thanks for a great read.
>>
>> Joey
>>
>>
>>
>>
>You're welcome.
>
>Mysteries are fun to write.  The REALLY great ones (John D. McDonald, 
>Ross MacDonald, Donald Westlake, etc. are just non-stop fun).
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
>stupidity.
>

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*** EOOH ***
From: LDS627@aol.com
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 00:33:46 EDT
Subject: Re: Honoured Enemy & 
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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In a message dated 6/19/2002 5:14:09 PM Pacific Daylight Time, 
raymond@bittersea.com writes:


> Subj:Re: Honoured Enemy &  
> Date:6/19/2002 5:14:09 PM Pacific Daylight Time
> From:<A HREF="mailto:raymond@bittersea.com">raymond@bittersea.com</A>
> Reply-to:<A HREF="mailto:FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu">FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu</A>
> To:<A HREF="mailto:FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu">FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu</A>
> Sent from the Internet 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Wednesday, June 19, 2002, at 04:19 PM, Smoking88@aol.com wrote:
> 
> > As REF has  stated before,  he writes to make money.  I'm sure he makes 
> > more on hardcover than paperback.  hardcovers sell from 20 to  40 
> > dollars new while paperbacks 6 to ten dollars new if your book was 
> > selling which would you prefer?
> >
> 
> It's not that simple.
> 
> The bulk of my income comes, over the long haul, from paperbacks.
> 
> It's about marketing issues.
> 
> I won't turn this into a clinic on US book marketing, but lets just say 
> that I take a long term hit if I let any of my work come out as 
> paperback originals after twenty years of hardcover originals.
> 
> Best, R.E.F.
> 

Sounds to me as if this is a case of: Percepetion is 90% of reality. If an 
author who has been producing original work in hardcover for 20 years 
suddenly has an original work come out in paperback, there would be a 
perception that it is being done because the publisher believes the author's 
work does not justify the extra cost of publishing in Hardcover (Or a dozen 
other business reasons that I am too ignorant to know). The hottom line 
being, it is perceived as a drop in status and subsequent

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Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 01:36:02 EDT
Subject: Re: Honoured Enemy & 
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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*** EOOH ***
From: LDS627@aol.com
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 01:36:02 EDT
Subject: Re: Honoured Enemy & 
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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In a message dated 6/19/2002 9:59:30 PM Pacific Daylight Time, LDS627@aol.com 
writes:


> Subj:Re: Honoured Enemy &  
> Date:6/19/2002 9:59:30 PM Pacific Daylight Time
> From:<A HREF="mailto:LDS627@aol.com">LDS627@aol.com</A>
> Reply-to:<A HREF="mailto:FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu">FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu</A>
> To:<A HREF="mailto:FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu">FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu</A>
> Sent from the Internet 
> 
> 
> 
> In a message dated 6/19/2002 5:14:09 PM Pacific Daylight Time, 
> raymond@bittersea.com writes:
> 
> 
> >> Subj:Re: Honoured Enemy &  
>> Date:6/19/2002 5:14:09 PM Pacific Daylight Time
>> From:<A HREF="mailto:raymond@bittersea.com">raymond@bittersea.com</A>
>> Reply-to:<A HREF="mailto:FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu">FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu</A>
>> To:<A HREF="mailto:FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu">FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu</A>
>> Sent from the Internet 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Wednesday, June 19, 2002, at 04:19 PM, Smoking88@aol.com wrote:
>> 
>> > As REF has  stated before,  he writes to make money.  I'm sure he makes 
>> > more on hardcover than paperback.  hardcovers sell from 20 to  40 
>> > dollars new while paperbacks 6 to ten dollars new if your book was 
>> > selling which would you prefer?
>> >
>> 
>> It's not that simple.
>> 
>> The bulk of my income comes, over the long haul, from paperbacks.
>> 
>> It's about marketing issues.
>> 
>> I won't turn this into a clinic on US book marketing, but lets just say 
>> that I take a long term hit if I let any of my work come out as 
>> paperback originals after twenty years of hardcover originals.
>> 
>> Best, R.E.F.
>> 
> 
> Sounds to me as if this is a case of: Percepetion is 90% of reality. If an 
> author who has been producing original work in hardcover for 20 years 
> suddenly has an original work come out in paperback, there would be a 
> perception that it is being done because the publisher believes the 
> author's work does not justify the extra cost of publishing in Hardcover 
> (Or a dozen other business reasons that I am too ignorant to know). The 
> hottom line being, it is perceived as a drop in status and subsequent 
Finishing off

The bottom line is, it is perceived as a drop in confidence and the 
booksellers act accordingly. (OR so I would imagine.).

Then again Ray, if you ever get worried you can do what the L. Ron Hubbard 
people do. Start your own Rayligion and we can buy LOTS AND LOTS of 
hardcovers and then return them as remaineders.

Larry

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From: "Cameron Gurr" <gurrc@brightontown.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
References: <06254018-83AD-11D6-8676-003065A8A644@bittersea.com>
Subject: Re: E-books
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 15:12:38 +0800
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Cameron Gurr" <gurrc@brightontown.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: E-books
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 15:12:38 +0800
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And yet Stephen King was almost at the point of giving up traditional
publishing altogether after he released "The Plant" from his website.

Is it a reading market issue? i.e. are horror readers more likely to take on
an e-book. I wouldn't have thought so on the face of it.

Cameron

----- Original Message -----
From: "Raymond Feist" <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Thursday, June 20, 2002 1:50 AM
Subject: Re: E-books


>
> On Tuesday, June 18, 2002, at 11:16 PM, cdunemann wrote:
>
> > I know this has probably been asked before in the past but. Will there
> > be
> > any more of Ray's books released in e-book format? I'm running a little
> > short of reading material on my pda.
> >
>
> At this point, no.  Until Talon is released in the US, at least.  I also
> don't know how happy Harper is about the results of their first set of
> releases.
>
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
>
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
> stupidity.
>
>



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Subject: For Ralph
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*** EOOH ***
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Hi Ralph,

I was wondering, and I think all the list might be interesed :) if you
had a plan about passing the midkemia map into a vectorial format such
as Macromedia Flash for example... Or an interactive map, like being
able to see the roads from one city to another town (like in
BaK)... something like this :)

The 50cm² color map I printed from your bitmap is still on my room's
wall but I got used to it so :) Wanted to know if we'll have something
new someday :oD

<grin>

Of course I know I'm talking about a major work, don't worry, I'm just
asking out of curiosity.

Syl





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From: cdunemann <cdunemann@AncientEngineering.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: E-books
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*** EOOH ***
From: cdunemann <cdunemann@AncientEngineering.com>
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Does Mr. King release works in two formats at once?  Given the choice 
between paper back or ebook, I will take ebook every time. I am how ever 
impatient, if I have to wait for ebook format I will most likely just buy 
the paper back version.



Quoting Cameron Gurr <gurrc@brightontown.com.au>:

> And yet Stephen King was almost at the point of giving up
> traditional
> publishing altogether after he released "The Plant" from his
> website.
> 
> Is it a reading market issue? i.e. are horror readers more likely
> to take on
> an e-book. I wouldn't have thought so on the face of it.
> 
> Cameron
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Raymond Feist" <raymond@bittersea.com>
> To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> Sent: Thursday, June 20, 2002 1:50 AM
> Subject: Re: E-books
> 
> 
> >
> > On Tuesday, June 18, 2002, at 11:16 PM, cdunemann wrote:
> >
> > > I know this has probably been asked before in the past but.
> Will there
> > > be
> > > any more of Ray's books released in e-book format? I'm running
> a little
> > > short of reading material on my pda.
> > >
> >
> > At this point, no.  Until Talon is released in the US, at least. 
> I also
> > don't know how happy Harper is about the results of their first
> set of
> > releases.
> >
> > Best, R.E.F.
> > ----
> >
> > Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained
> away by
> > stupidity.
> >
> >
> 





-I canna give ya more power captin. She'll fly herself apart!-

------------------------------------------------------------
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-- RLT Enterprises --



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From: Gkhd11a@aol.com
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 10:37:58 EDT
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In a message dated 6/20/02 2:39:39 AM Central Daylight Time, 
gurrc@brightontown.com.au writes:


> And yet Stephen King was almost at the point of giving up traditional
> publishing altogether after he released "The Plant" from his website.
> 
> Is it a reading market issue? i.e. are horror readers more likely to take on
> an e-book. I wouldn't have thought so on the face of it.
> 
> Cameron
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Raymond Feist" <raymond@bittersea.com>
> To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> Sent: Thursday, June 20, 2002 1:50 AM
> Subject: Re: E-books
> 
> 
> >
> > On Tuesday, June 18, 2002, at 11:16 PM, cdunemann wrote:
> >
> > > I know this has probably been asked before in the past but. Will there
> > > be
> > > any more of Ray's books released in e-book format? I'm running a little
> > > short of reading material on my pda.
> > >
> >
> > At this point, no.  Until Talon is released in the US, at least.  I also
> > don't know how happy Harper is about the results of their first set of
> > releases.
> >
> > Best, R.E.F.
> > ----
> >
> > Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
> > stupidity.
> >
> >

But why wouldn't they publish them also as e-books?  It doesn't cost much 
money to publish it in electronic form, none if you don't have to pay for the 
server at all.

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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 09:05:18 -0700
Subject: Re: E-books
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On Thursday, June 20, 2002, at 12:12 AM, Cameron Gurr wrote:

> And yet Stephen King was almost at the point of giving up traditional
> publishing altogether after he released "The Plant" from his website.
>
> Is it a reading market issue? i.e. are horror readers more likely to 
> take on
> an e-book. I wouldn't have thought so on the face of it.
>

Where did you hear Steve was almost at the point of giving up 
traditional publishing?  It's utter nonsense.  Steve was very 
disappointed with the results of what happened on-line.  He didn't 
realize that on-line there's a tradition of freeware and shareware that 
creates a completely different consumer attitude and sales environment.  
If I click and order it, and it's sent to me, I'll pay first.  If I 
click and pay first, and downloaded it, I'll pay.  If I download first, 
I might pay, but probably not.  Steve almost interrupted the program 
before it was finished he was so pissed off.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 09:08:27 -0700
Subject: Re: E-books
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
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On Thursday, June 20, 2002, at 07:37 AM, Gkhd11a@aol.com wrote:

>
> But why wouldn't they publish them also as e-books?  It doesn't cost 
> much money to publish it in electronic form, none if you don't have to 
> pay for the server at all.

Huh?  In what reality?

Look you've got people to pay, to start with, to run the program.  This 
isn't the case of someone taking one of my books in Word files I've sent 
to my editor and uploads them to a web site.

You've got to first take the setting text and convert it to the various 
forms needed (Palm, E-Reader, Rocket, etc.).  And you have to pay a 
royalty to each of those format license holders.  And of course then 
you've got to pay money to the various sites who do the providing, for 
ad placement and promotion.  Then you've got the press releases and 
marketing stuff to do.

This isn't loading your favorite shareware to a board, we're talking 
about.  We're talking about a multi-million dollar enterprise in the 
hope it someday may make a profit.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.

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I read somewhere that there are meant to be another two or three books to
the Legacy series. When are these likely to happen?


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Subject: Word of the day
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I thought given Ray's love of the vine this was appropriate. If it
wasn't please send _all_ rebuffs/flames/etc... off list to me
directly!!!

Thanks!

-Stuart

|
|The Word of the Day for June 20 is:
|
|oenophile   \EE-nuh-file\   (noun)
|     : a lover or connoisseur of wine
|
|Example sentence:
|     The new wine shop is an oenophile's delight, with a
|wonderful selection of vineyards and vintages and a helpful,
|knowledgeable staff.
|
|Did you know?
|     "It has become quite a common proverb that in wine there
|is truth," wrote the 1st-century A.D. Roman scholar, Pliny the
|Elder. The truth about the word "wine" is that it goes back to
|Latin "vinum," but it is also a distant relative of the Greek
|word for wine, which is "oinos." It was the Greek word that
|modern English speakers chose to combine with "-phile" (Greek
|for "lover of") around 1930 to create "oenophile."
|Etymologically-inclined oenophiles are sure to know that
|"oenology" (the science of wine making) and "oenologist" (one
|versed in oenology) also trace back to the Greek root. And they
|may even know that "wine therapy" (use of wine for therapeutic
|purposes) is also known as "oenotherapy."
|
|

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In a message dated 6/20/2002 9:15:14 AM Eastern Daylight Time, 
fenyxkell@demo.xandmail.com writes:
>I was wondering, and I think all the list might be interesed :) if you had 
>a plan about passing the midkemia map into a vectorial format such as 
>Macromedia Flash for example... Or an interactive map, like being able to see 
>the roads from one city to another town (like in BaK)... something like this 
>:)
>
>The 50cm² color map I printed from your bitmap is still on my room's wall but 
>I got used to it so :) Wanted to know if we'll have something new someday :oD
>
><grin>
>
>Of course I know I'm talking about a major work, don't worry, I'm just asking 
>out of curiosity.


You must be psychic, Syl. :-) I have indeed been working on such a project. 
As you said, it is a lot of work and I have been very busy at the clinic 
lately. All I can say for now is it is in the works. I hope to make the 
Unoffical Atlas much more interactive in the not too distant future.

Thanks for your input. Elvandar.com has benefited from many list member 
ideas!

-Ralph
Visit Elvandar.com and the Unofficial Atlas to the Worlds of Raymond E. Feist 
at
http://www.elvandar.com



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Just finished up with Murder, well the fast first read, now reading slowly.  
Glad Ray said no to put in paperback, I would rather buy it from the UK in 
hardcover.

Again thanks to both of the authors!!

John


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From: cdunemann <cdunemann@AncientEngineering.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Free Ebooks?
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*** EOOH ***
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Just curious about what people on the list think of the Baen free library ?
http://www.baen.com/library/



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From: "M Chaloner" <markchaloner@btinternet.com>
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Subject: Hanging scene in SoaDQ
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Subject: Hanging scene in SoaDQ
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I don't seem to ask many questions these days and this is probably going
to sound like a silly one, but was the hanging scene in SoaDQ influenced
in any way by the original Dirty Dozen film?

Mark ;-)



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Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 10:52:58 -0700
Subject: Re: E-books
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
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On Thursday, June 20, 2002, at 09:37 AM, Paul Atkinson wrote:

>
> I read somewhere that there are meant to be another two or three books 
> to
> the Legacy series. When are these likely to happen?
>

When I get around to it.  I'm thinking maybe two more years.

And given the realities of the market place, they may not be called 
"Legacy," depending on what the marketing wonks at HarperCollins think 
is best.  It may be just "Crawler/Dark Mage" will be a "stand alone" 
series.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 11:20:50 -0700
Subject: Re: Hanging scene in SoaDQ
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On Thursday, June 20, 2002, at 10:46 AM, M Chaloner wrote:

> I don't seem to ask many questions these days and this is probably going
> to sound like a silly one, but was the hanging scene in SoaDQ influenced
> in any way by the original Dirty Dozen film?
>

Not really.  The concept of desperate criminals being given a shot to 
redeem themselves didn't originate with that film (though it's one of 
the very best stories around that theme).  In the film, if you remember, 
Major Resiman is the witness to the hanging, not the criminals.

And the criminals in SoaDQ think they're going to be executed up to the 
moment they drop.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Eh, that's just GREAT ! :)

Syl (lesser path psychic from time to time:)



---------- Entête initiale -----------

De      : owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
A          : FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Cc          : 
Date      : Thu, 20 Jun 2002 12:50:04 EDT
Sujet : Re: For Ralph

> In a message dated 6/20/2002 9:15:14 AM Eastern Daylight Time, 
> fenyxkell@demo.xandmail.com writes:
> 
> 
> <<I was wondering, and I think all the list might be interesed :) if you had 
> a plan about passing the midkemia map into a vectorial format such as 
> Macromedia Flash for example... Or an interactive map, like being able to see 
> the roads from one city to another town (like in BaK)... something like this 
> :)
> 
> The 50cm² color map I printed from your bitmap is still on my room's wall but 
> I got used to it so :) Wanted to know if we'll have something new someday :oD
> 
> <grin>
> 
> Of course I know I'm talking about a major work, don't worry, I'm just asking 
> out of curiosity.>>
> 
> 
> You must be psychic, Syl. :-) I have indeed been working on such a project. 
> As you said, it is a lot of work and I have been very busy at the clinic 
> lately. All I can say for now is it is in the works. I hope to make the 
> Unoffical Atlas much more interactive in the not too distant future.
> 
> Thanks for your input. Elvandar.com has benefited from many list member 
> ideas!
> 
> -Ralph
> Visit Elvandar.com and the Unofficial Atlas to the Worlds of Raymond E. Feist 
> at
> http://www.elvandar.com
> 
> 



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Speaking of those great maps, is there supposed to be two Jonril's? I know 
the one between Carse and Tulan is correct, but did not realize there was 
one in Kesh just south of the Green Reaches. Is this a typo? If not, then is 
there a shared history between the two cities?


Adieu

Jimmy

>From: "Sylvain Guehl" <fenyxkell@demo.xandmail.com>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: Re: For Ralph
>Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 18:23:44 +0000
>
>Eh, that's just GREAT ! :)
>
>Syl (lesser path psychic from time to time:)
>
>
>
>---------- Entête initiale -----------
>
>De      : owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>A          : FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Cc          :
>Date      : Thu, 20 Jun 2002 12:50:04 EDT
>Sujet : Re: For Ralph
>
> > In a message dated 6/20/2002 9:15:14 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
> > fenyxkell@demo.xandmail.com writes:
> >
> >
> > <<I was wondering, and I think all the list might be interesed :) if you 
>had
> > a plan about passing the midkemia map into a vectorial format such as
> > Macromedia Flash for example... Or an interactive map, like being able 
>to see
> > the roads from one city to another town (like in BaK)... something like 
>this
> > :)
> >
> > The 50cm² color map I printed from your bitmap is still on my room's 
>wall but
> > I got used to it so :) Wanted to know if we'll have something new 
>someday :oD
> >
> > <grin>
> >
> > Of course I know I'm talking about a major work, don't worry, I'm just 
>asking
> > out of curiosity.>>
> >
> >
> > You must be psychic, Syl. :-) I have indeed been working on such a 
>project.
> > As you said, it is a lot of work and I have been very busy at the clinic
> > lately. All I can say for now is it is in the works. I hope to make the
> > Unoffical Atlas much more interactive in the not too distant future.
> >
> > Thanks for your input. Elvandar.com has benefited from many list member
> > ideas!
> >
> > -Ralph
> > Visit Elvandar.com and the Unofficial Atlas to the Worlds of Raymond E. 
>Feist
> > at
> > http://www.elvandar.com
> >
> >
>


_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx



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From: "Susan" <susanandderek@freemail.absa.co.za>
To: "FEISTFANS-L@cornell. edu \(E-mail\)" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Honoured Enemy &
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Mr Feist

I apologise for any offence, if any, regarding the question on what
difference it makes makes how the book is printed. Although, if you consider
the Rand / Dollar exchange rate and the difference in pricing in the USA, I
should probably shoot myself. You would lose up to R 300-00 between a HC &
PB.

Regarding my other question, if you want good SA wine, you would have to
travel to the Cape Town, but a lot of your support is in Durban, and all
that we have here is bananas and sugar cane, so you will have to skip the
wine and have a banana beer instead.

Derek



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Subject: Re: Hanging scene in SoaDQ
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Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 19:58:11 +0000
Subject: Re: Hanging scene in SoaDQ
From: "Sylvain Guehl" <fenyxkell@demo.xandmail.com>
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> And the criminals in SoaDQ think they're going to be executed up to the 
> moment they drop.

I loved that scene. When I was mastering the SerpentWar RPG campaign,
all the players really thought that they had messed up from the very
beginning of the story and that I was about to hang them :)

Ah, Ray, thank you again.

Syl



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In a message dated 6/20/2002 3:30:25 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
kiehtan@hotmail.com writes:
>Speaking of those great maps, is there supposed to be two Jonril's? I know 
>the one between Carse and Tulan is correct, but did not realize there was 
>one in Kesh just south of the Green Reaches. Is this a typo? If not, then is 
>there a shared history between the two cities?

Hi Jimmy,

There are indeed two Jonrils...it is not a typo. I asked both Ray and Steve 
Abrams about that some time ago and they confirmed it. I believe Steve said 
that the Jonril just south of the Green Reaches in the Kingdom of Kesh 
predates the one along the Far Coast. Citizens from the first established the 
second.

Is this history correct, Ray?

-Ralph
Visit Elvandar.com and the Unofficial Atlas to the Wordls of Raymond E. Feist 
at
http://www.elvandar.com



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From: Gkhd11a@aol.com
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 17:47:47 EDT
Subject: The Green Reaches
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Anybody that knows-
       In the map that comes with Prince of the Blood, The Green Reaches 
stretch from near Stardock to a little past Pointer's Head.  But in all other 
maps I have seen, they only go west to around Kampari.  So which one is it?

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Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 16:07:04 -0700
Subject: Re: Honoured Enemy &
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
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On Thursday, June 20, 2002, at 12:04 PM, Susan wrote:

> Mr Feist
>
> I apologise for any offence, if any, regarding the question on what
> difference it makes makes how the book is printed. Although, if you 
> consider
> the Rand / Dollar exchange rate and the difference in pricing in the 
> USA, I
> should probably shoot myself. You would lose up to R 300-00 between a 
> HC &
> PB.
>
> Regarding my other question, if you want good SA wine, you would have to
> travel to the Cape Town, but a lot of your support is in Durban, and all
> that we have here is bananas and sugar cane, so you will have to skip 
> the
> wine and have a banana beer instead.
>

A friend of mine brought back some banana beer from West Africa some 
years ago.  NEVER AGAIN!

Anyway, no offense was taking about the question.  It's simply marketing 
stuff that most fans don't know/care about.

As for visiting SA, I suspect if I'm ever down there, it'll be Jo-burg 
and Cape Town.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 16:08:54 -0700
Subject: Re: For Ralph
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Thursday, June 20, 2002, at 01:57 PM, RMAskren@aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 6/20/2002 3:30:25 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> kiehtan@hotmail.com writes:
>
>
> <<Speaking of those great maps, is there supposed to be two Jonril's? I 
> know
> the one between Carse and Tulan is correct, but did not realize there 
> was
> one in Kesh just south of the Green Reaches. Is this a typo? If not, 
> then is
> there a shared history between the two cities?>>
>
> Hi Jimmy,
>
> There are indeed two Jonrils...it is not a typo. I asked both Ray and 
> Steve
> Abrams about that some time ago and they confirmed it. I believe Steve 
> said
> that the Jonril just south of the Green Reaches in the Kingdom of Kesh
> predates the one along the Far Coast. Citizens from the first 
> established the
> second.
>
> Is this history correct, Ray?
>

It's what Steve says it is.  I forgot why we did it, but originally 
Jonril was a city in Kesh thunk up by Steve's then-wife, April.  When 
Jonril was in development for the game product line at Midkemia Press, I 
believe half way through it was decided to put it in the Far Coast 
region rather than start developing a second area in a second nation 
with different cultures, etc.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re: For Ralph
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From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: For Ralph
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 20:05:12 -0400
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Huh, that makes sense. Thanks for the information gentlemen.

Adieu
Jimmy


>From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: Re: For Ralph
>Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 16:08:54 -0700
>
>
>On Thursday, June 20, 2002, at 01:57 PM, RMAskren@aol.com wrote:
>
>>In a message dated 6/20/2002 3:30:25 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
>>kiehtan@hotmail.com writes:
>>
>>
>><<Speaking of those great maps, is there supposed to be two Jonril's? I 
>>know
>>the one between Carse and Tulan is correct, but did not realize there was
>>one in Kesh just south of the Green Reaches. Is this a typo? If not, then 
>>is
>>there a shared history between the two cities?>>
>>
>>Hi Jimmy,
>>
>>There are indeed two Jonrils...it is not a typo. I asked both Ray and 
>>Steve
>>Abrams about that some time ago and they confirmed it. I believe Steve 
>>said
>>that the Jonril just south of the Green Reaches in the Kingdom of Kesh
>>predates the one along the Far Coast. Citizens from the first established 
>>the
>>second.
>>
>>Is this history correct, Ray?
>>
>
>It's what Steve says it is.  I forgot why we did it, but originally Jonril 
>was a city in Kesh thunk up by Steve's then-wife, April.  When Jonril was 
>in development for the game product line at Midkemia Press, I believe half 
>way through it was decided to put it in the Far Coast region rather than 
>start developing a second area in a second nation with different cultures, 
>etc.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
>stupidity.


_________________________________________________________________
Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
http://www.hotmail.com



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Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 20:05:48 EDT
Subject: Re: Honoured Enemy & 
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From: Smoking88@aol.com
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 20:05:48 EDT
Subject: Re: Honoured Enemy & 
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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I understand.  Most of the books I have of yours are in paperback, but i get 
hardcover books when I can.  I do wish these two books and others soon to 
come out would be available here, but as the publishing author you are 
certainly entitled to your reasons for where books are released and how.
joe

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Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 00:27:49 EDT
Subject: Re: The Green Reaches
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*** EOOH ***
From: RMAskren@aol.com
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 00:27:49 EDT
Subject: Re: The Green Reaches
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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In a message dated 6/20/2002 6:22:30 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
Gkhd11a@aol.com writes:
>Anybody that knows- 
>      In the map that comes with Prince of the Blood, The Green Reaches 
>stretch from near Stardock to a little past Pointer's Head.  But in all other 
>maps I have seen, they only go west to around Kampari.  So which one is it?



I guess we won't know for sure until Ray and Steve finish the Atlas of 
Midkemia. However, my opinion is that Jackie Aher took some liberties in the 
map for the first edition of Prince of the Blood. If you look at the maps in 
the Midkemia Press publications, they all show the Green Reaches ending at 
about the beginning of the Peaks of Tranquility.

-Ralph
Visit Elvandar.com and the Unoffical Atlas to the Worlds of Raymond E. Feist 
at
http://www.elvandar.com

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From: "Greg Bulloch" <somedude1_2000@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: E-books
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 15:57:19 +1000
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From: "Greg Bulloch" <somedude1_2000@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: E-books
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Mr Feist....
I just wanted to know if you realise that through the so called 'peer2peer' 
sharing programs i.e KaZaA (www.kazaa.com)
your books can be obtained freely in doc or txt format
this is obviously illeagal
i was just wondering if you were aware of this and what you are planning to 
do about it


>From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: Re: E-books
>Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 10:52:58 -0700
>
>
>On Thursday, June 20, 2002, at 09:37 AM, Paul Atkinson wrote:
>
>>
>>I read somewhere that there are meant to be another two or three books to
>>the Legacy series. When are these likely to happen?
>>
>
>When I get around to it.  I'm thinking maybe two more years.
>
>And given the realities of the market place, they may not be called 
>"Legacy," depending on what the marketing wonks at HarperCollins think is 
>best.  It may be just "Crawler/Dark Mage" will be a "stand alone" series.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
>stupidity.




_________________________________________________________________
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From: "Wouter Durnez" <arutha_of_krondor@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Language
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 07:29:32 +0000
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Just a question.
If you have a team of four enthousiastic fantasyfreaks standing behind you, 
and you are going to create a new universe together with them, would it seem 
rational to think of creating a whole new language?
(Time is not a problem, we're willing to work on it for the rest of our 
lives (combined with our jobs, ofcourse).)
And if we we're to do that, what would be the best way to start?

I'm guessing I'll get answers like 'no way that'll work', but like I said, 
it's just a question :)

_________________________________________________________________
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1) Get an advanced degree in Linguistics.
2) Have fun!

rip


At 08:29 21/06/2002, Wouter Durnez spake thusly:

>Just a question.
>If you have a team of four enthousiastic fantasyfreaks standing behind you, and you are going to create a new universe together with them, would it seem rational to think of creating a whole new language?
>(Time is not a problem, we're willing to work on it for the rest of our lives (combined with our jobs, ofcourse).)
>And if we we're to do that, what would be the best way to start?
>
>I'm guessing I'll get answers like 'no way that'll work', but like I said, it's just a question :)
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.



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From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: Free Ebooks?
In-Reply-To: <1024565399.3d11a09715296@mail.trebuchet.com>
References: <F4BBCAB4-8467-11D6-BF28-003065A8A644@bittersea.com>
 <F4BBCAB4-8467-11D6-BF28-003065A8A644@bittersea.com>
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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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It's an evil abomination and assault on capitalism at its most basic level.
It's caused me to buy about $250 worth of Baen books in the past quarter
(all of David Weber and John Ringo, plus most of Elisabeth Moon's works
in paperback and a couple in hardcover) and I may very well be staring
on the Lois McM Bujold "Vorkosigan" series, as well.
Brastreds.

rip

At 10:29 20/06/2002, cdunemann spake thusly:
>Just curious about what people on the list think of the Baen free library ?
>http://www.baen.com/library/
>
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------
>"Have you hurled today?" (TM)
>
> http://www.Trebuchet.com
>  http://www.Mangonel.com
>   http://www.BackyardArtillery.com
>    http://www.Catapults.info
>     http://www.Onager.info
>      http://www.AncientEngineering.com
>       http://www.WidgetSleeves.com
>
>(Free email accounts too!)
>
>-- RLT Enterprises --



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How Ridicules.

If free ebooks are a assault on capitalism 'at it's most basic level' then
it is a pretty weak and puny assault. It would be like  myself going up
against Tomas in a pub brawl.  After all the vast majority of GDP for any
country is based of goods and services. Material things that cannot be
downloaded. At worse a completely free internet would cause an adjustment
to the marketplace in a few specific areas. After all the mass video
distribution didn't kill cinema, music artists can always make money from
live performances and ultimately allot of people will still buy physical
books if only for the feel and convienience.



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Subject: Just a few questions
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I've just been re-reading books and I have a few questions:

1. In Servant of the Empire, how powerful is a Servant of the Empire, in 
terms of the Emporer and of the Great Ones?
2. Sorry if I've missed this, but when in the Riftwar does Murder take place?
3.In the Kingdom at what age does the choosing take place?

Thanks very much



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I've just been re-reading books and I have a few questions:

1. In Servant of the Empire, how powerful is a Servant of the Empire, in 
terms of the Emporer and of the Great Ones?
2. Sorry if I've missed this, but when in the Riftwar does Murder take place?
3.In the Kingdom at what age does the choosing take place?

Thanks very much

Ben



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From: Paul Atkinson <paul.atkinson@isntv.co.uk>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Free Ebooks?
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 10:12:25 +0100
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From: Paul Atkinson <paul.atkinson@isntv.co.uk>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Free Ebooks?
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 10:12:25 +0100
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

But wouldn't it be easy just to download it for free and print it out and
bind it yourself. A ream of paper only costs a pound (sorry, I'm English;
that's $1.50). Why should people who have laboured hard to create something
be asked to give it away for free. Capitalism is founded on the principle of
fair exchange of goods, in this case currency for a book. Asking people to
give away the objects that make up there livelihood for free because you
want them too is both selfish and unjustifiable. 

You want what somebody else has. You either pay the price for what you want
or just don't get it. Plain and simple. 

PS I think you mean ridiculous

-----Original Message-----
>From: mark.wellman@simplot.com.au [mailto:mark.wellman@simplot.com.au]
>Sent: Friday, June 21, 2002 9:45 AM
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: Re: Free Ebooks?
>
>
>
>How Ridicules.
>
>If free ebooks are a assault on capitalism 'at it's most basic level' then
>it is a pretty weak and puny assault. It would be like  myself going up
>against Tomas in a pub brawl.  After all the vast majority of GDP for any
>country is based of goods and services. Material things that cannot be
>downloaded. At worse a completely free internet would cause an adjustment
>to the marketplace in a few specific areas. After all the mass video
>distribution didn't kill cinema, music artists can always make money from
>live performances and ultimately allot of people will still buy physical
>books if only for the feel and convienience.
>
>
>
>**********************************************************************
>Privileged or confidential information is contained in this electronic
>message.
>
>If this message is not addressed to you, or if you are not responsible
>for the delivery of this message to the addressee, you may not 
>download, copy or forward this message to any other person. If you do
>not immediately delete this message you may be liable for a breach of
>confidentiality. We would be grateful if you would notify us of your 
>receipt and deletion of this message.
>
>It is your responsibility to maintain an up to date virus detection
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Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 10:40:44 +0100
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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: Free Ebooks?
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 10:40:44 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: Free Ebooks?
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

At 09:44 21/06/2002, mark.wellman@simplot.com.au spake thusly:

>How Ridicules.

Yep.

Don't worry, you'll either get used to me, or you'll 
killfile me ;->

If you read my message again, you will see where you
missed my point.  It is of course always possible that
I wasn't clear in my attempt at humor.  Here, I'll
try again:

1) www.baen.com has a 'free library'.  They give their
signed authors the space to upload their books for free
download.

2) Based on my access to the free library, I've spent
on the close order of $250 US on books published by 
Baen, that are /not/ in the free library.  I tasted
the water, liked what I found in several cases, and
so bought all the other published works of several
of the authors.

In other words, think about what I wrote.  Give me
the benefit of the doubt.  Realize that I was being
facetious.  Lighten up.

rip


>If free ebooks are a assault on capitalism 'at it's most basic level' then
>it is a pretty weak and puny assault. It would be like  myself going up
>against Tomas in a pub brawl.  After all the vast majority of GDP for any
>country is based of goods and services. Material things that cannot be
>downloaded. At worse a completely free internet would cause an adjustment
>to the marketplace in a few specific areas. After all the mass video
>distribution didn't kill cinema, music artists can always make money from
>live performances and ultimately allot of people will still buy physical
>books if only for the feel and convienience.



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Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 17:44:00 +0800
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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: Shawn Chung <shawnc@starhub.net.sg>
Subject: Re: Free Ebooks?
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 17:44:00 +0800
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: Shawn Chung <shawnc@starhub.net.sg>
Subject: Re: Free Ebooks?
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On Fri, 21 Jun 2002, rip exclaimed:

>It's an evil abomination and assault on capitalism at its most basic level.
>It's caused me to buy about $250 worth of Baen books in the past quarter
>(all of David Weber and John Ringo, plus most of Elisabeth Moon's works
>in paperback and a couple in hardcover) and I may very well be staring
>on the Lois McM Bujold "Vorkosigan" series, as well.
>Brastreds.
>
>rip
>
>At 10:29 20/06/2002, cdunemann spake thusly:
>>Just curious about what people on the list think of the Baen free library ?
>  >http://www.baen.com/library/
>  >

Baen's free library is quite good, especially the fact that I can get 
books for my Palm so that I can read while on the bus.  BTW, I 
actually have most of the books I've downloaded from Baen's site in 
PB or hardcover.  Its the convenience of having a dozen books in my 
Palm that I like.

As rip has also mentioned, Baen often releases sample chapters and 
snippets of upcoming works to tease readers.  Judging from the amount 
of feedback at the Baen's Bar, this has had a very positive effect on 
getting people to try new authors.

Oh yeah, LM Bujod is really good, rip, you don't know yet what your missing.
-- 
----

SeeYa StarSide

Shawn Chung

--------------

"Is it not nifty? Worship the comic."
Sluggy Freelance - www.sluggy.com



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Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 11:05:52 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Subject: RE: Free Ebooks?
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>that's $1.50). Why should people who have laboured hard to create something
>be asked to give it away for free. Capitalism is founded on the principle of

Actually, it comes under the heading of /advertisement/.

Or what the ad-monkeys call a "loss-leader".  By placing the
free books up for everyone, everyone gets to read it.  The
theory being that if they like it, they will be tempted to
pay for the remainder in the series (since they generally
put up for download the first (and maybe second) books in
a series.  cf "On Basilisk Station", David Weber (the "Honor
Harrington" books, Excellent Space Opera, except the author
bugs me with his "info dumps"...ie, he recaps.  A lot.).

Worked for me.  I've bought about 10 of his books, and will
be buying the next one when it comes out in October.  Not
bad for giving me the first one for free...which I went out
and bought anyway, so I would have the entire set.

Also, it is not the /publisher/ who is doing it.  He is 
only providing the hosting space.  It is entirely up
to the author whether he/she/they want to put anything
in the free lib.

Also, could I get all you lot, who have auto-sigs being
appended by your servers (the whole "if this wasn't 
intended for you, destroy it and all copies of it, 
and while your at it, your computer, the email server
and any routers between you and me, for good measure"
disclaimers)...could I get you to /prune/ the damn 
things when replying?  The noise to content ratio
goes way up when there's two of you.

rip

At 10:12 21/06/2002, Paul Atkinson spake thusly:
>But wouldn't it be easy just to download it for free and print it out and
>bind it yourself. A ream of paper only costs a pound (sorry, I'm English;
>that's $1.50). Why should people who have laboured hard to create something
>be asked to give it away for free. Capitalism is founded on the principle of
>fair exchange of goods, in this case currency for a book. Asking people to
>give away the objects that make up there livelihood for free because you
>want them too is both selfish and unjustifiable. 



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From: "Michelle Thomson" <chell_40@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Harper Collins NZ email address
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 12:37:00 +0000
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Does anyone out there know how I can get hold of Harper Collins NZ?  I'm 
sure I found it one day but alas, am unable to find it when I truely need 
it.  I'm getting very impatient for MiL yet keep getting differing 
information on the release date here.

My local library says 30 May (I think that was based on the origional 
release date)

Someone on the list said September (Hoping there informant had it confused 
with Talon), but Ray said it should be there now.

I was told on the 8 June that it was meant to come out on 7 June???? by one 
store.

And finally I was told yesterday that it was due out next month by a 
salesperson who had just told me they didn't get release dates and thought 
the "Snakes Series" (I think he was confused with the Serpentwar Saga) were 
the last to be released.

Thanks,

Michelle



_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com



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From: Kenneth Jones <killkenny@thos.co.za>
Subject: Re: Harper Collins NZ email address
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Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 14:48:08 +0200
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: Kenneth Jones <killkenny@thos.co.za>
Subject: Re: Harper Collins NZ email address
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The person that said the release date was September was, like me, from 
South Africa.

Unfortunately the release date here is in fact September!! I also got 
impatient waiting, so I ordered it from Amazon.co.uk yesterday. Only god 
knows when it will get here with our postal system.

Regards,
Kenneth Jones

At 12:37 PM 6/21/02 +0000, you wrote:

>Does anyone out there know how I can get hold of Harper Collins NZ?  I'm 
>sure I found it one day but alas, am unable to find it when I truely need 
>it.  I'm getting very impatient for MiL yet keep getting differing 
>information on the release date here.
>
>My local library says 30 May (I think that was based on the origional 
>release date)
>
>Someone on the list said September (Hoping there informant had it confused 
>with Talon), but Ray said it should be there now.
>
>I was told on the 8 June that it was meant to come out on 7 June???? by 
>one store.
>
>And finally I was told yesterday that it was due out next month by a 
>salesperson who had just told me they didn't get release dates and thought 
>the "Snakes Series" (I think he was confused with the Serpentwar Saga) 
>were the last to be released.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Michelle
>
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com



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From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
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Subject: Re: Free Ebooks?
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 10:35:42 -0500
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Free Ebooks?
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 10:35:42 -0500
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Ever hear of the cost of ink? Or the wear and tear on your machine,
plus the cost of going to get the paper (fuel, time), then there is
the time that you loose that you can't be printing out work material
that actually pays you (like those reports your boss wanted last
week :P ).  Plus it costs money to bind something, even the simplest
binds require some kind of investment be it a machine to do it, or
glue and a case, or even a binder and hole punch.  I think given all
that it would be very expensive to actually try and print out text
books for yourself.  Which is why so few people bother to do it.

-James

----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Atkinson" <paul.atkinson@isntv.co.uk>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Friday, June 21, 2002 4:12 AM
Subject: RE: Free Ebooks?


> But wouldn't it be easy just to download it for free and print it out and
> bind it yourself. A ream of paper only costs a pound (sorry, I'm English;
> that's $1.50). Why should people who have laboured hard to create something
> be asked to give it away for free. Capitalism is founded on the principle of
> fair exchange of goods, in this case currency for a book. Asking people to
> give away the objects that make up there livelihood for free because you
> want them too is both selfish and unjustifiable.
>
> You want what somebody else has. You either pay the price for what you want
> or just don't get it. Plain and simple.
>
> PS I think you mean ridiculous
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: mark.wellman@simplot.com.au [mailto:mark.wellman@simplot.com.au]
> Sent: Friday, June 21, 2002 9:45 AM
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Subject: Re: Free Ebooks?
>
>
>
> How Ridicules.
>
> If free ebooks are a assault on capitalism 'at it's most basic level' then
> it is a pretty weak and puny assault. It would be like  myself going up
> against Tomas in a pub brawl.  After all the vast majority of GDP for any
> country is based of goods and services. Material things that cannot be
> downloaded. At worse a completely free internet would cause an adjustment
> to the marketplace in a few specific areas. After all the mass video
> distribution didn't kill cinema, music artists can always make money from
> live performances and ultimately allot of people will still buy physical
> books if only for the feel and convienience.
>
>
>
> **********************************************************************
> Privileged or confidential information is contained in this electronic
> message.
>
> If this message is not addressed to you, or if you are not responsible
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>
> **********************************************************************
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>
> Any views or opinions expressed are those of the author and do not
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>
> This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept
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>accepted in the event that a virus is contained within it or any
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>
> London News Network Ltd (Registered no 2631359)
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>



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From: cdunemann <cdunemann@AncientEngineering.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Free Ebooks?
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*** EOOH ***
From: cdunemann <cdunemann@AncientEngineering.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Free Ebooks?
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 08:20:12 +0000 (/etc/localtime)
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Most people simply don't bother, as the main point of an ebook is to have 
the material in a non printed format.


Quoting James Young <jajy@earthlink.net>:

> Ever hear of the cost of ink? Or the wear and tear on your
> machine,
> plus the cost of going to get the paper (fuel, time), then there
> is
> the time that you loose that you can't be printing out work
> material
> that actually pays you (like those reports your boss wanted last
> week :P ).  Plus it costs money to bind something, even the
> simplest
> binds require some kind of investment be it a machine to do it,
> or
> glue and a case, or even a binder and hole punch.  I think given
> all
> that it would be very expensive to actually try and print out
> text
> books for yourself.  Which is why so few people bother to do it.
> 
> -James
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Paul Atkinson" <paul.atkinson@isntv.co.uk>
> To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> Sent: Friday, June 21, 2002 4:12 AM
> Subject: RE: Free Ebooks?
> 
> 
> > But wouldn't it be easy just to download it for free and print
> it
> out and
> > bind it yourself. A ream of paper only costs a pound (sorry,
> I'm
> English;
> > that's $1.50). Why should people who have laboured hard to
> create
> something
> > be asked to give it away for free. Capitalism is founded on the
> principle of
> > fair exchange of goods, in this case currency for a book.
> Asking
> people to
> > give away the objects that make up there livelihood for free
> because you
> > want them too is both selfish and unjustifiable.
> >
> > You want what somebody else has. You either pay the price for
> what
> you want
> > or just don't get it. Plain and simple.
> >
> > PS I think you mean ridiculous
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: mark.wellman@simplot.com.au
> [mailto:mark.wellman@simplot.com.au]
> > Sent: Friday, June 21, 2002 9:45 AM
> > To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > Subject: Re: Free Ebooks?
> >
> >
> >
> > How Ridicules.
> >
> > If free ebooks are a assault on capitalism 'at it's most basic
> level' then
> > it is a pretty weak and puny assault. It would be like  myself
> going up
> > against Tomas in a pub brawl.  After all the vast majority of
> GDP
> for any
> > country is based of goods and services. Material things that
> cannot be
> > downloaded. At worse a completely free internet would cause an
> adjustment
> > to the marketplace in a few specific areas. After all the mass
> video
> > distribution didn't kill cinema, music artists can always make
> money from
> > live performances and ultimately allot of people will still buy
> physical
> > books if only for the feel and convienience.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> ********************************************************************
> **
> > Privileged or confidential information is contained in this
> electronic
> > message.
> >
> > If this message is not addressed to you, or if you are not
> responsible
> > for the delivery of this message to the addressee, you may not
> > download, copy or forward this message to any other person. If
> you
> do
> > not immediately delete this message you may be liable for a
> breach
> of
> > confidentiality. We would be grateful if you would notify us of
> your
> > receipt and deletion of this message.
> >
> > It is your responsibility to maintain an up to date virus
> detection
> > system and to scan this message and any attachment to it for
> computer
> > viruses or other defects. If you download a file attached to
> this
> > message, you do so at your own risk.
> >
> > In no circumstances does Simplot Australia Pty Ltd accept
> liability
> > for any loss or damage (including any indirect or consequential
> > losses) which may result, directly or indirectly, from your
> receipt of
> > this message or any attachment to it.
> >
> ********************************************************************
> **
> >
> >
> >
> ********************************************************************
> **
> >
> > This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential
> and
> intended solely for the use of the addressee.   If you have
> received
> this email in error you may not disclose, copy, distribute or act
> upon its contents without the author's prior written consent.
> Please can you notify the system manager postmaster@lnn-tv.co.uk
> immediately and delete this email.
> >
> > Any views or opinions expressed are those of the author and do
> not
> necessarily represent those of London News Network Ltd.
> >
> > This footnote also confirms that this email message has been
> swept
> for the presence of computer viruses.   No responsibility can be
> accepted in the event that a virus is contained within it or any
> attachments.
> >
> > London News Network Ltd (Registered no 2631359)
> > Registered office:  The London Television Centre, London SE1
> 9LT
> >
> 





-I canna give ya more power captin. She'll fly herself apart!-

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*** EOOH ***
From: Dominic.Wynn@blackwell.co.uk
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: RE: Harper Collins NZ email address
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 17:34:51 +0100
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: Michelle Thomson [mailto:chell_40@hotmail.com]
> Sent: Friday, June 21, 2002 1:37 PM
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Subject: Harper Collins NZ email address
> 
> 
> 
> Does anyone out there know how I can get hold of Harper 
> Collins NZ?  I'm 
> sure I found it one day but alas, am unable to find it when I 
> truely need 
> it.  I'm getting very impatient for MiL yet keep getting differing 
> information on the release date here.
> Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com

HarperCollinsPublishers New Zealand
31 View Road,
Glenfield, Auckland
New Zealand
Telephone: 64 9 443 9400
Facsimile: 64 9 443 9403

Website: http://www.harpercollins.co.nz
 


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Subject: Re: E-books
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 09:43:06 -0700
Subject: Re: E-books
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Thursday, June 20, 2002, at 10:57 PM, Greg Bulloch wrote:

> Mr Feist....
> I just wanted to know if you realise that through the so called 
> 'peer2peer' sharing programs i.e KaZaA (www.kazaa.com)
> your books can be obtained freely in doc or txt format
> this is obviously illeagal
> i was just wondering if you were aware of this and what you are 
> planning to do about it
>

I refer this stuff to my publishers and let their lawyers handle it.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.
>
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
>
>



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*** EOOH ***
From: Dominic.Wynn@blackwell.co.uk
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: RE: E-books
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 17:42:41 +0100
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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-----Original Message-----
From: Gkhd11a@aol.com [mailto:Gkhd11a@aol.com]
Sent: Thursday, June 20, 2002 3:38 PM
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: E-books


In a message dated 6/20/02 2:39:39 AM Central Daylight Time,
gurrc@brightontown.com.au writes: 

But why wouldn't they publish them also as e-books?  It doesn't cost much
money to publish it in electronic form, none if you don't have to pay for
the server at all. 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------

A response I gave on a newsgroup on Usenet:

Unlike real books, the cost of ebooks lies in the digitization process. Most
publishers don't have the moolah to deal with it, so they are passing it on
to 3rd party suppliers like Lightning Source. Who charge appropriately.

In the long term publishers probably realise that as a result of this
they'll have to charge customers less (customers will not be prepared to pay
$15 for a book that was digitised 20 years previously and costs the
publisher 30c to 'produce'). This will mean reduced sales, and smaller
profits. Not a very convincing case for digitizing your entire catalogue.
Don't expect to see tens of thousands of books available anytime in the near
future... and let's not even talk about formats - it's confusing enough for
customers and retailers with Hardback, Paperback, Audio etc, but then you
add another 3 (Microsoft, Adobe, Mobipocket), and the ISBN situation begins
to look ridiculous....

D

p.s - using Rich Text/HTML looks horrible when people try and reply.....


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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 09:45:58 -0700
Subject: Re: Language
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On Friday, June 21, 2002, at 12:29 AM, Wouter Durnez wrote:

>
> Just a question.
> If you have a team of four enthousiastic fantasyfreaks standing behind 
> you, and you are going to create a new universe together with them, 
> would it seem rational to think of creating a whole new language?

Artificial languages are interesting, witness the enduring popularity of 
Esperanto among certain people.  But the question would be, why bother?

Tolkein did it because the underlying logic of his universe was that it 
was language driven, hardly a shock when you consider he was a Don of 
Gotho-Germanic Languages at Oxford.


> (Time is not a problem, we're willing to work on it for the rest of our 
> lives (combined with our jobs, ofcourse).)
> And if we we're to do that, what would be the best way to start?
>
> I'm guessing I'll get answers like 'no way that'll work', but like I 
> said, it's just a question :)

It could work, but you're still going to be asked "why?"

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 09:47:30 -0700
Subject: Re: Just a few questions
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On Friday, June 21, 2002, at 01:59 AM, BH10BH000@aol.com wrote:

> I've just been re-reading books and I have a few questions:
>
> 1. In Servant of the Empire, how powerful is a Servant of the Empire, in
> terms of the Emporer and of the Great Ones?

A Servant doesn't have "power" in the same sense, but rather prestige 
unequaled by anyone but the Emperor and the Great Ones.

> 2. Sorry if I've missed this, but when in the Riftwar does Murder take 
> place?

The seventh year.

> 3.In the Kingdom at what age does the choosing take place?

Age fourteen.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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From: "Joel Rosenberg" <joelr@ellegon.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Language
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Joel Rosenberg" <joelr@ellegon.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Language
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 12:27:29 -0500
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Yup, but . . .

A good reason to add language, or bits of language, is to be able to use,
and sometimes explore, ideas that don't quite map to one's native
language -- Heinlein's "grok" being the canonical example, or, in the book
I'm working on now, "Sentiri", which doesn't quite mean "cop", but has some
of the connotations of "cop", "tribune", and "political hack."

-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Raymond Feist
>Sent: Friday, June 21, 2002 11:46 AM
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: Re: Language
>
>
>
>On Friday, June 21, 2002, at 12:29 AM, Wouter Durnez wrote:
>
>>
>> Just a question.
>> If you have a team of four enthousiastic fantasyfreaks standing behind
>> you, and you are going to create a new universe together with them,
>> would it seem rational to think of creating a whole new language?
>
>Artificial languages are interesting, witness the enduring popularity of
>Esperanto among certain people.  But the question would be, why bother?
>
>Tolkein did it because the underlying logic of his universe was that it
>was language driven, hardly a shock when you consider he was a Don of
>Gotho-Germanic Languages at Oxford.
>
>
>> (Time is not a problem, we're willing to work on it for the rest of our
>> lives (combined with our jobs, ofcourse).)
>> And if we we're to do that, what would be the best way to start?
>>
>> I'm guessing I'll get answers like 'no way that'll work', but like I
>> said, it's just a question :)
>
>It could work, but you're still going to be asked "why?"
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
>stupidity.
>

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From: cdunemann <cdunemann@AncientEngineering.com>
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Subject: RE: E-books
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Any one can convert files to MS reader format free of charge but then you 
would be missing options that a publisher would require. Like encryption, 
authentication, and cover art. 

One would think a majority of the cost would be up front licensing fees to 
the format creators MS for .lits Adobe for .pdf and possible fees to 
online retailers hosting the ebooks as well as the cost of software for 
converting doc/txt to the appropriate ebook formats. I can't imagine the 
actual conversion process would take that many man hours. A nice auto feed 
duplexing scanner with a decent OCR program can convert several hundred 
pages over the course of a day completely un attended. Converting from a 
doc/txt format to lit or pdf even with table of contents and cover art can 
be done in under an hour. Proof reading on the other hand could be fairly 
time consuming. 

Personally I would love to see publishers move toward releasing original 
works in hard cover first and then release paperback and ebook formats at 
the same time. If ebook sales grow enough publishers might actually save 
money on not printing as many paper version of the novel.



Quoting Dominic.Wynn@blackwell.co.uk:

> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gkhd11a@aol.com [mailto:Gkhd11a@aol.com]
> Sent: Thursday, June 20, 2002 3:38 PM
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Subject: Re: E-books
> 
> 
> In a message dated 6/20/02 2:39:39 AM Central Daylight Time,
> gurrc@brightontown.com.au writes: 
> 
> But why wouldn't they publish them also as e-books?  It doesn't
> cost much
> money to publish it in electronic form, none if you don't have to
> pay for
> the server at all. 
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
> 

------------------------------------------------------------
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(Free email accounts too!)

-- RLT Enterprises --



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From: "Terri Lyn Layman" <terrilyn@fullnet.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Language
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 13:04:29 -0500
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Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: "Terri Lyn Layman" <terrilyn@fullnet.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Language
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 13:04:29 -0500
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Raymond Feist
> Sent: Friday, June 21, 2002 11:46 AM
> On Friday, June 21, 2002, at 12:29 AM, Wouter Durnez wrote:
>
> >
> > Just a question.
> > If you have a team of four enthousiastic fantasyfreaks
> standing behind
> > you, and you are going to create a new universe together with them,
> > would it seem rational to think of creating a whole new language?
>
> Artificial languages are interesting, witness the enduring
> popularity of
> Esperanto among certain people.  But the question would be,
> why bother?
>
<snip>

What always boggles me about Language-created-for-fiction stuff is the
popularity of Klingon, Vulcan, and Romulan in academia.  There's a bunch of
colleges that offer them as part of their Foreign language/linguistics
programs.

I mean, not to be wierd, but how big of a geek do you have to be?
I can just see the following in a interview/job fair situation:
"Hi, I'm John Smith, I just graduated Summa Cum Laude from Berkley with a BA
in Linguistics minoring in Star Trek languages...."

I don't know, maybe I'm wierd.  I at one point thought about learning
Vulcan, but I got over it.  So I don't win the Star Trek geek spot in Beat
the Geeks.

-TerriLyn (Hrm, wonder who would get the Midkemia Geek award around here?)




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From: "Andy Holcombe" <andy_wan_kenobi@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: RE: Free Ebooks?
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 14:25:14 -0500
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From: "Andy Holcombe" <andy_wan_kenobi@hotmail.com>
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Subject: RE: Free Ebooks?
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 14:25:14 -0500
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>From: Paul Atkinson <paul.atkinson@isntv.co.uk>

>But wouldn't it be easy just to download it for free and print it out and 
>bind it yourself.

I don't know how standard this is, but the two e-books I have (both Star 
Wars, if that matters) don't allow printing.  I certain that you could 
prbably work around this if you know enough about the Adobe and Microsoft 
e-book readers, but I, and most people, don't.

Andy Holcombe
Andy_wan_Kenobi@hotmail.com

"To err is human, but to really foul things up requires a computer."
     -Farmers' Almanac 1978

"I don't give a damn for a man who can only spell a word one way."
     -Mark Twain

"History will be kind to me, for I intend to write it."
     -Winston Churchill

_________________________________________________________________
Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
http://www.hotmail.com



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From: "M Chaloner" <markchaloner@btinternet.com>
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Subject: RE: Free Ebooks?
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 21:34:01 +0100
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*** EOOH ***
From: "M Chaloner" <markchaloner@btinternet.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Free Ebooks?
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 21:34:01 +0100
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On
> Behalf Of Andy Holcombe
> Sent: Friday, June 21, 2002 8:25 PM
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Subject: RE: Free Ebooks?
>From: Paul Atkinson <paul.atkinson@isntv.co.uk>
>But wouldn't it be easy just to download it for free and print it out and
>bind it yourself.
> <snip>
> Andy Holcombe


Why would you want to deprive an author of his royalties?
It makes no difference to Charles Dickens or whoever else is long since
dead -
But why deprive someone of what they're entitled to?

Mark ;-)



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 17:34:42 -0600
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Free Ebooks?
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Paul Atkinson wrote:
> 
> But wouldn't it be easy just to download it for free and print it out and
> bind it yourself.

When people discuss downing a book and printing it out, sure they may
say paper is cheap, but ink cartridges for ink jet printers are not.

Craig J. Ries



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John.  No question.

Though no small number of us would qualify.

> -TerriLyn (Hrm, wonder who would get the Midkemia Geek award around here?)
>
>



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BH10BH000@aol.com wrote:
> I've just been re-reading books and I have a few questions:
> 
> 1. In Servant of the Empire, how powerful is a Servant of the Empire, in 
> terms of the Emporer and of the Great Ones?

As with all other things in the Empire, it allows you to be as powerful 
as you can convince everyone else you are.  :)

cd
-- 
Death to all Absolutists!



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From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
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Subject: Re: Language
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Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2002 11:23:50 +1000 (GMT+1000)
From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Language
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No.

Assumingyour writing this universe in a made up langugage, who is going to
understand it other than you 4?

> Just a question.
> If you have a team of four enthousiastic fantasyfreaks standing behind you,
> and you are going to create a new universe together with them, would it seem
> rational to think of creating a whole new language?
> (Time is not a problem, we're willing to work on it for the rest of our
> lives (combined with our jobs, ofcourse).)
> And if we we're to do that, what would be the best way to start?
>
> I'm guessing I'll get answers like 'no way that'll work', but like I said,
> it's just a question :)
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.
>
>

Thanks
Darragh
================================================
msn: iamtheporkfireman@hotmail.com

"Believe or die - thank you O lord for all those
 options" - Bill Hicks.
================================================



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Subject: Re: E-books
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Cameron Gurr" <gurrc@brightontown.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: E-books
Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2002 10:47:56 +0800
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I stand corrected.

Cameron
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Raymond Feist" <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Friday, June 21, 2002 12:05 AM
Subject: Re: E-books


> 
> On Thursday, June 20, 2002, at 12:12 AM, Cameron Gurr wrote:
> 
> > And yet Stephen King was almost at the point of giving up traditional
> > publishing altogether after he released "The Plant" from his website.
> >
> > Is it a reading market issue? i.e. are horror readers more likely to 
> > take on
> > an e-book. I wouldn't have thought so on the face of it.
> >
> 
> Where did you hear Steve was almost at the point of giving up 
> traditional publishing?  It's utter nonsense.  Steve was very 
> disappointed with the results of what happened on-line.  He didn't 
> realize that on-line there's a tradition of freeware and shareware that 
> creates a completely different consumer attitude and sales environment.  
> If I click and order it, and it's sent to me, I'll pay first.  If I 
> click and pay first, and downloaded it, I'll pay.  If I download first, 
> I might pay, but probably not.  Steve almost interrupted the program 
> before it was finished he was so pissed off.
> 
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
> 
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
> stupidity.
> 
> 



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Subject: Re: E-books
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Cameron Gurr" <gurrc@brightontown.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: E-books
Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2002 10:46:33 +0800
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The Plant (I think thta's what it's called) was never released on paper, adn
it does not appear as if it ever will be.

Cameron

----- Original Message -----
From: "cdunemann" <cdunemann@AncientEngineering.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Thursday, June 20, 2002 2:31 PM
Subject: Re: E-books


> Does Mr. King release works in two formats at once?  Given the choice
> between paper back or ebook, I will take ebook every time. I am how ever
> impatient, if I have to wait for ebook format I will most likely just buy
> the paper back version.
>
>
>
> Quoting Cameron Gurr <gurrc@brightontown.com.au>:
>
> > And yet Stephen King was almost at the point of giving up
> > traditional
> > publishing altogether after he released "The Plant" from his
> > website.
> >
> > Is it a reading market issue? i.e. are horror readers more likely
> > to take on
> > an e-book. I wouldn't have thought so on the face of it.
> >
> > Cameron
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Raymond Feist" <raymond@bittersea.com>
> > To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> > Sent: Thursday, June 20, 2002 1:50 AM
> > Subject: Re: E-books
> >
> >
> > >
> > > On Tuesday, June 18, 2002, at 11:16 PM, cdunemann wrote:
> > >
> > > > I know this has probably been asked before in the past but.
> > Will there
> > > > be
> > > > any more of Ray's books released in e-book format? I'm running
> > a little
> > > > short of reading material on my pda.
> > > >
> > >
> > > At this point, no.  Until Talon is released in the US, at least.
> > I also
> > > don't know how happy Harper is about the results of their first
> > set of
> > > releases.
> > >
> > > Best, R.E.F.
> > > ----
> > >
> > > Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained
> > away by
> > > stupidity.
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> -I canna give ya more power captin. She'll fly herself apart!-
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> "Have you hurled today?" (TM)
>
>  http://www.Trebuchet.com
>   http://www.Mangonel.com
>    http://www.BackyardArtillery.com
>     http://www.Catapults.info
>      http://www.Onager.info
>       http://www.AncientEngineering.com
>        http://www.WidgetSleeves.com
>
> (Free email accounts too!)
>
> -- RLT Enterprises --
>
>



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I got your point rip if its any consolation? ;-)
Regards
Chris

-------Original Message-------
>From: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Date: 21 June 2002 11:03:53
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: Re: Free Ebooks?
>
>At 09:44 21/06/2002, mark.wellman@simplot.com.au spake thusly:
>
>>How Ridicules.
>
>Yep.
>
>Don't worry, you'll either get used to me, or you'll 
>killfile me ;->
>
>If you read my message again, you will see where you
>missed my point. It is of course always possible that
>I wasn't clear in my attempt at humor. Here, I'll
>try again:
>
>1) www.baen.com has a 'free library'. They give their
>signed authors the space to upload their books for free
>download.
>
>2) Based on my access to the free library, I've spent
>on the close order of $250 US on books published by 
>Baen, that are /not/ in the free library. I tasted
>the water, liked what I found in several cases, and
>so bought all the other published works of several
>of the authors.
>
>In other words, think about what I wrote. Give me
>the benefit of the doubt. Realize that I was being
>facetious. Lighten up.
>
>rip
>
>
>>If free ebooks are a assault on capitalism 'at it's most basic level' then
>>it is a pretty weak and puny assault. It would be like myself going up
>>against Tomas in a pub brawl. After all the vast majority of GDP for any
>>country is based of goods and services. Material things that cannot be
>>downloaded. At worse a completely free internet would cause an adjustment
>>to the marketplace in a few specific areas. After all the mass video
>>distribution didn't kill cinema, music artists can always make money from
>>live performances and ultimately allot of people will still buy physical
>>books if only for the feel and convienience.

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Good to see your memory isn't failing Ray ;-)

Regards
Chris

-------Original Message-------
>From: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Date: 21 June 2002 18:12:21
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: Re: Just a few questions
>
>On Friday, June 21, 2002, at 01:59 AM, BH10BH000@aol.com wrote:
>
>> I've just been re-reading books and I have a few questions:
>>
>> 1. In Servant of the Empire, how powerful is a Servant of the Empire, in
>> terms of the Emporer and of the Great Ones?
>
>A Servant doesn't have "power" in the same sense, but rather prestige 
>unequaled by anyone but the Emperor and the Great Ones.
>
>> 2. Sorry if I've missed this, but when in the Riftwar does Murder take 
>> place?
>
>The seventh year.
>
>> 3.In the Kingdom at what age does the choosing take place?
>
>Age fourteen.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
>stupidity.

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Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2002 21:25:48 +1200
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From: Tim Nicholas <tim@nicholas.net.nz>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Harper Collins NZ email address
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2002 21:25:48 +1200
From: Tim Nicholas <tim@nicholas.net.nz>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Harper Collins NZ email address
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I was told my my local book sort (otago university Book shop) that
they were going to get it on the 6th of june, but they have actually
only just got it. I got an email on thursday saying that my copy is
being held for me. 

So it is in NZ, but it seems that it was late getting here...

Tim

On Fri, Jun 21, 2002 at 12:37:00PM +0000, Michelle Thomson wrote:
> 
> Does anyone out there know how I can get hold of Harper Collins NZ?  I'm 
> sure I found it one day but alas, am unable to find it when I truely need 
> it.  I'm getting very impatient for MiL yet keep getting differing 
> information on the release date here.
> 
> My local library says 30 May (I think that was based on the origional 
> release date)
> 
> Someone on the list said September (Hoping there informant had it confused 
> with Talon), but Ray said it should be there now.
> 
> I was told on the 8 June that it was meant to come out on 7 June???? by one 
> store.
> 
> And finally I was told yesterday that it was due out next month by a 
> salesperson who had just told me they didn't get release dates and thought 
> the "Snakes Series" (I think he was confused with the Serpentwar Saga) were 
> the last to be released.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Michelle
> 
> 
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
> 
> 

-- 
Tim Nicholas                          ||                      Cilix
Email: tim@nicholas.net.nz            ||       Dunedin, New Zealand
http://tim.nicholas.net.nz/           ||  Cell/SMS: +64 21 113 0399



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From: "Wouter Durnez" <arutha_of_krondor@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Language
Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2002 09:33:22 +0000
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From: "Wouter Durnez" <arutha_of_krondor@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Language
Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2002 09:33:22 +0000
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Why? Because it adds a whole new element of credibility! Your world will 
seem very realistic, and therefore more attractive for the public (I think).

And, if you complete a language for a race, you will know so much more about 
the race yourself, because language and culture/habits go hand in hand.

It also gives your world an almost complete state of independance. I know I, 
as part of the big fantasypublic, would definitely admire the people that 
pulled this off.
And last, but not least, it's COOL ;)


>From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: Re: Language
>Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 09:45:58 -0700
>
>
>On Friday, June 21, 2002, at 12:29 AM, Wouter Durnez wrote:
>
>>
>>Just a question.
>>If you have a team of four enthousiastic fantasyfreaks standing behind
>>you, and you are going to create a new universe together with them,
>>would it seem rational to think of creating a whole new language?
>
>Artificial languages are interesting, witness the enduring popularity of
>Esperanto among certain people.  But the question would be, why bother?
>
>Tolkein did it because the underlying logic of his universe was that it
>was language driven, hardly a shock when you consider he was a Don of
>Gotho-Germanic Languages at Oxford.
>
>
>>(Time is not a problem, we're willing to work on it for the rest of our
>>lives (combined with our jobs, ofcourse).)
>>And if we we're to do that, what would be the best way to start?
>>
>>I'm guessing I'll get answers like 'no way that'll work', but like I
>>said, it's just a question :)
>
>It could work, but you're still going to be asked "why?"
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
>stupidity.
>




_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com



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We're not going to write it in a made up language, we're not dumb :)
We only want to creaty something of a backbone for the cultures of our 
invented races.

>From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
>Subject: Re: Language
>Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2002 11:23:50 +1000 (GMT+1000)
>
>No.
>
>Assumingyour writing this universe in a made up langugage, who is going to
>understand it other than you 4?
>
> > Just a question.
> > If you have a team of four enthousiastic fantasyfreaks standing behind 
>you,
> > and you are going to create a new universe together with them, would it 
>seem
> > rational to think of creating a whole new language?
> > (Time is not a problem, we're willing to work on it for the rest of our
> > lives (combined with our jobs, ofcourse).)
> > And if we we're to do that, what would be the best way to start?
> >
> > I'm guessing I'll get answers like 'no way that'll work', but like I 
>said,
> > it's just a question :)
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at 
>http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.
> >
> >
>
>Thanks
>Darragh
>================================================
>msn: iamtheporkfireman@hotmail.com
>
>"Believe or die - thank you O lord for all those
>  options" - Bill Hicks.
>================================================
>




_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com



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From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
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Subject: Comic books
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From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Comic books
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Jsut received news that George RR Martin's "legends" contribution, namely
'The Hedge knight" is to be put into comic book format.

Just pondering would Ray's "The Wood Boy" or other short stories suffer in
such a format.



Thanks
Darragh
================================================
msn: iamtheporkfireman@hotmail.com

"Believe or die - thank you O lord for all those
 options" - Bill Hicks.
================================================



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Darragh Murray wrote:
> Jsut received news that George RR Martin's "legends" contribution, namely
> 'The Hedge knight" is to be put into comic book format.
> 
> Just pondering would Ray's "The Wood Boy" or other short stories suffer in
> such a format.

Any word on who the artist will be?

cd
-- 
Death to all Absolutists!



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From: Tomi Heimonen <Tomi.Heimonen@uta.fi>
Subject: Re: Comic books
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Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2002 20:08:32 +0300
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: Tomi Heimonen <Tomi.Heimonen@uta.fi>
Subject: Re: Comic books
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At 20:30 22.6.2002 -0700, you wrote:
>Darragh Murray wrote:
>>Jsut received news that George RR Martin's "legends" contribution, namely
>>'The Hedge knight" is to be put into comic book format.
>>Just pondering would Ray's "The Wood Boy" or other short stories suffer in
>>such a format.
>
>Any word on who the artist will be?
>
>cd


It's going to be a five part graphic novella produced by Roaring Studios
(http://www.roaringstudios.com) and is expected to come out during the
coming winter.

A couple friends of mine, GRRM aficionados, are apparently helping out the
artits with designing the outlook of the characters. It seems, though,
that the studio is aiming for a Marvel superhero look, instead of a
realistic depiction, as evidenced by the preview pictures up on the
Roaring Studios site ;-P

--

-------------------------------------
Tomi Heimonen

email:  th60367@uta.fi
www: http://www.uta.fi/~th60367/

"Never offend people with style when
  you can offend them with substance."
-------------------------------------



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From: "Andy Holcombe" <andy_wan_kenobi@hotmail.com>
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Subject: RE: Free Ebooks?
Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 00:21:02 -0500
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From: "Andy Holcombe" <andy_wan_kenobi@hotmail.com>
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Subject: RE: Free Ebooks?
Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 00:21:02 -0500
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>From: "M Chaloner" <markchaloner@btinternet.com>
>
>Why would you want to deprive an author of his royalties?
>It makes no difference to Charles Dickens or whoever else is long since
>dead -
>But why deprive someone of what they're entitled to?

The e-books I was referring to were, at least at the time, only available in 
e-book format.  I wanted a more permenant way to have the books and due to 
the protections am unable to do so.

Andy Holcombe
Andy_wan_Kenobi@hotmail.com

"To err is human, but to really foul things up requires a computer."
     -Farmers' Almanac 1978

"I don't give a damn for a man who can only spell a word one way."
     -Mark Twain

"History will be kind to me, for I intend to write it."
     -Winston Churchill

_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com



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From: "Reinhardt Gerber" <Reinhardt@Basix.co.za>
To: "Feist Mailing List" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Hell?
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 11:06:23 +0200
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From: "Reinhardt Gerber" <Reinhardt@Basix.co.za>
To: "Feist Mailing List" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Hell?
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 11:06:23 +0200
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I'm reading "The kings Buccaneer" again, and picked up something that was a
bit confusing...

When Crydee got raided, when Briana got killed and the two girls captured,
the is a scene where one of the raiders kills a friend of his because he was
to weak to carry on. Just before he cut his throat he says "I'll see you in
hell". As I understood from the whole Lims Kragma's hall concept, I never
thought of there being a HELL. Can somebody maybe shed some light on this
for me. I hope my explanation is OK, seeing that English is not my first
language.

Reinhardt Gerber





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References: <000501c21b68$a6270900$2100a8c0@wolf>
Subject: Re: Hell?
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From: "Reinhardt Gerber" <Reinhardt@Basix.co.za>
To: "Feist Mailing List" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Hell?
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 12:52:34 +0200
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> I don't really have an answer for you so much, but prepare to be flamed
> by at least one or 2 people for not including spoiler warning
> 
> Dave

Sorry about that...

Reinhardt



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From: "Greg Bulloch" <somedude1_2000@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re: Hell?
Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 21:08:38 +1000
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there are 7 lower hells
perhaps he was refering to one of them
im no expert ive only read 7 books but the hells are where the demons live? 
something along those lines. I remember it being described in the serpant 
war saga


>From: "Reinhardt Gerber" <Reinhardt@Basix.co.za>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: "Feist Mailing List" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
>Subject: Hell?
>Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 11:06:23 +0200
>
>I'm reading "The kings Buccaneer" again, and picked up something that was a
>bit confusing...
>
>When Crydee got raided, when Briana got killed and the two girls captured,
>the is a scene where one of the raiders kills a friend of his because he 
>was
>to weak to carry on. Just before he cut his throat he says "I'll see you in
>hell". As I understood from the whole Lims Kragma's hall concept, I never
>thought of there being a HELL. Can somebody maybe shed some light on this
>for me. I hope my explanation is OK, seeing that English is not my first
>language.
>
>Reinhardt Gerber




_________________________________________________________________
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From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
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Subject: Re: Hell?
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Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 21:51:25 +1000 (GMT+1000)
From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Hell?
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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You're assuming a lowley raider would have detailed knowledge of how
'midkemia' works.

I took as being a generic term, not explicity meaning one of the seven
hells

plus "I'll see oyu in Lims Kragma's Halls" just doesn't have the same
ring:)

> there are 7 lower hells
> perhaps he was refering to one of them
> im no expert ive only read 7 books but the hells are where the demons live?
> something along those lines. I remember it being described in the serpant
> war saga
>
>
> >From: "Reinhardt Gerber" <Reinhardt@Basix.co.za>
> >Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> >To: "Feist Mailing List" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> >Subject: Hell?
> >Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 11:06:23 +0200
> >
> >I'm reading "The kings Buccaneer" again, and picked up something that was a
> >bit confusing...
> >
> >When Crydee got raided, when Briana got killed and the two girls captured,
> >the is a scene where one of the raiders kills a friend of his because he
> >was
> >to weak to carry on. Just before he cut his throat he says "I'll see you in
> >hell". As I understood from the whole Lims Kragma's hall concept, I never
> >thought of there being a HELL. Can somebody maybe shed some light on this
> >for me. I hope my explanation is OK, seeing that English is not my first
> >language.
> >
> >Reinhardt Gerber
>
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com
>
>

Thanks
Darragh
================================================
msn: iamtheporkfireman@hotmail.com

"Believe or die - thank you O lord for all those
 options" - Bill Hicks.
================================================



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From: "Mr Elbion" <elbion3@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re: Hell?
Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 11:46:16 +0000
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IIRC, The Ultimate punishment was to be sent into oblivian, another form of 
Hell.
Hope this helps.
                            Chris


>From: "Reinhardt Gerber" <Reinhardt@Basix.co.za>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: "Feist Mailing List" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
>Subject: Hell?
>Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 11:06:23 +0200
>
>I'm reading "The kings Buccaneer" again, and picked up something that was a
>bit confusing...
>
>When Crydee got raided, when Briana got killed and the two girls captured,
>the is a scene where one of the raiders kills a friend of his because he 
>was
>to weak to carry on. Just before he cut his throat he says "I'll see you in
>hell". As I understood from the whole Lims Kragma's hall concept, I never
>thought of there being a HELL. Can somebody maybe shed some light on this
>for me. I hope my explanation is OK, seeing that English is not my first
>language.
>
>Reinhardt Gerber




_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx



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From: "The Eternal Sorceror" <bobkelly24@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Crydee.com
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I was just wondering what was happening with www.crydee.com. I mean
that it hasn't been updated for a while and was just wondering if it
was still a reliable resource for feist information. Not to take away
from the wonderful job the owner has done on it, it is a great
site. If it is none of my buissnes, pleas forgive me for this
intrusion.

                                                                   Thanks, Mike

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From: Al Burrell <al.burl@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Hell?
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Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 13:53:09 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: Al Burrell <al.burl@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Hell?
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And everyone has their own beliefs of the afterlife.

Al

At 21:51 24/06/2002 +1000, Darragh Murray wrote:

>You're assuming a lowley raider would have detailed knowledge of how
>'midkemia' works.
>
>I took as being a generic term, not explicity meaning one of the seven
>hells
>
>plus "I'll see oyu in Lims Kragma's Halls" just doesn't have the same
>ring:)
>
> > there are 7 lower hells
> > perhaps he was refering to one of them
> > im no expert ive only read 7 books but the hells are where the demons live?
> > something along those lines. I remember it being described in the serpant
> > war saga
> >
> >
> > >From: "Reinhardt Gerber" <Reinhardt@Basix.co.za>
> > >Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > >To: "Feist Mailing List" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> > >Subject: Hell?
> > >Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 11:06:23 +0200
> > >
> > >I'm reading "The kings Buccaneer" again, and picked up something that 
> was a
> > >bit confusing...
> > >
> > >When Crydee got raided, when Briana got killed and the two girls captured,
> > >the is a scene where one of the raiders kills a friend of his because he
> > >was
> > >to weak to carry on. Just before he cut his throat he says "I'll see 
> you in
> > >hell". As I understood from the whole Lims Kragma's hall concept, I never
> > >thought of there being a HELL. Can somebody maybe shed some light on this
> > >for me. I hope my explanation is OK, seeing that English is not my first
> > >language.
> > >
> > >Reinhardt Gerber
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com
> >
> >
>
>Thanks
>Darragh
>================================================
>msn: iamtheporkfireman@hotmail.com
>
>"Believe or die - thank you O lord for all those
>  options" - Bill Hicks.
>================================================



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From: Gkhd11a@aol.com
Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 09:49:10 EDT
Subject: Re: Hell?
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Ramond one replied to something similar too this once I think, I also think 
that it is in the FAQ

    As S35-something something something- said, these are lowely riders, and 
how would the common people know about the 7 levels of hell?  I don't even 
think most priests know about it.  But I would suppose that the common people 
believe that people who do things against what the churches tells the people 
to do, would be sent to hell.  I'm betting though, that Feist didn't give any 
of that thought before he wrote that line down anyways.



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From: John <john@crydee.com>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 18:10:37 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: John <john@crydee.com>
Subject: Re: Crydee.com
User-Agent: Turnpike/6.01-U (<x5sqXV$6+zj$GDJXMMY4QwhIW3>)
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The Eternal Sorceror <bobkelly24@hotmail.com> writes
>I was just wondering what was happening with www.crydee.com.

Not much at the moment, been a little pre occupied, with my divorce, and 
my new life. Divorce should be final in a couple of weeks, then I should 
loose a lot of the stress, but new life is taking up a lot of spare time
> I mean
>that it hasn't been updated for a while and was just wondering if it was still
>a reliable resource for feist information.
Its as reliable as it was when it was last updated. :)
Seriously if anyone wants to contribute to the news section just email 
me the info and I will upload on a weekly basis or more often if I am 
able
If possible I would like one or 2 people on a regular basis to assist in 
the news

> Not to take away from the
>wonderful job the owner has done on it, it is a great site. If it is none of my
>buissnes, pleas forgive me for this intrusion.
No affront taken, I need to get things sorted, just not having much time 
at present. But I will have 2 weeks in August :)
> 
>                                                                                                 
>Thanks, Mike
> 

I have a few plans on how I would like to change parts of the site, but 
am not sure how  to do it to make it easy to update, Still looking into 
it

best

-- 
John

john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.

Raymond E Feist Ring
http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm



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From: Ben <volsballa34@yahoo.com>
Subject: Question on Nakor possible spoilers
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 14:25:21 -0700 (PDT)
From: Ben <volsballa34@yahoo.com>
Subject: Question on Nakor possible spoilers
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


Hey, I've got another question.

Are we ever going to figure out who Nakor really is? I mean we figure
out that most of his knowledge comes from the "dream stealer" object,
but we never figure out much of his history other than his marriage
and how he is somewhat related (well not physically related). So i was
just wondering if we will ever figure out who he is, even though he
tells shortly of his life there has to be more behind it. Thanks!

Ben



---------------------------------
Do You Yahoo!?
Sign-up for Video Highlights of 2002 FIFA World Cup

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From: "Henrik Grotle" <henrik@arasoft.no>
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References: <98.27d35224.2a487d56@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Hell?
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 00:08:06 +0200
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Henrik Grotle" <henrik@arasoft.no>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Hell?
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> to do, would be sent to hell.  I'm betting though, that Feist didn't give any
> of that thought before he wrote that line down anyways.

IMHO, any professional writer should be entitled to use the phrase "I'll see
you in hell" at least one time in his/her life, no matter what. <g>

Henrik Grotle



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Subject: Re: Question on Nakor possible spoilers
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 18:26:26 -0400
From: Jud Partin <jpartin@vorlon.eas.gatech.edu>
Organization: Georgia Tech
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Question on Nakor possible spoilers
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

You know Ben, with Nakor being one of my all time favorite characters,
I've had the same question running through my mind ever since I read
Prince of the Blood many years ago. After thinking about it I came to
the conclusion that you only need to know about Nakor's past if it
directly relates to understanding a problem at hand. Otherwise what is
more important are the ideas, thoughts and values he conveys... some of
which are even applicable to our world as well.

But I have to admit, I too would love to hear about his past. I even
love to hear about his little adventures he goes on... like his
excursion to the Emerald Bitch's camp in SOADK - awesome. A random book
about him clowning around for a few years would be a great read (I think
it would difficult to write though- just my opinion which counts for
what?). But I think your wanting to hear all about his past is like
wanting to see Yoda kick butt... maybe you'll finally get your wish, but
it is up to someone else. Although I'm thinking some unpleasentries will
pop up later in Midkemia to create some problems for you to get your
wish. But until/if such time should occur, remember to enjoy whatcha
got.

Then again, this could all be complete nonsense that should be
disregarded.

... lots of "buts" in this message, sorry. And the "dream stealer"
object was the Codex of the lost god of knowledge that he had in his
possession for many years to experiment with and use- that should tell
you volumes about Nakor's.

Hope something in this helps,
Jud



Ben wrote:

> Hey, I've got another question.
>
> Are we ever going to figure out who Nakor really is? I mean we figure
> out that most of his knowledge comes from the "dream stealer" object,
> but we never figure out much of his history other than his marriage
> and how he is somewhat related (well not physically related). So i was
> just wondering if we will ever figure out who he is, even though he
> tells shortly of his life there has to be more behind it. Thanks!
>
> Ben
>
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Sign-up for Video Highlights of 2002 FIFA World Cup

1,,
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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: Al Burrell <al.burl@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Question on Nakor possible spoilers
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 00:44:15 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: Al Burrell <al.burl@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Question on Nakor possible spoilers
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I think not knowing too much about Nakor's past is what gives him that 
mysterious quality. Giving us his past might then take away that quality.

Al

At 18:26 24/06/2002 -0400, Jud Partin wrote:
>You know Ben, with Nakor being one of my all time favorite characters, 
>I've had the same question running through my mind ever since I read 
>Prince of the Blood many years ago. After thinking about it I came to the 
>conclusion that you only need to know about Nakor's past if it directly 
>relates to understanding a problem at hand. Otherwise what is more 
>important are the ideas, thoughts and values he conveys... some of which 
>are even applicable to our world as well.
>
>But I have to admit, I too would love to hear about his past. I even love 
>to hear about his little adventures he goes on... like his excursion to 
>the Emerald Bitch's camp in SOADK - awesome. A random book about him 
>clowning around for a few years would be a great read (I think it would 
>difficult to write though- just my opinion which counts for what?). But I 
>think your wanting to hear all about his past is like wanting to see Yoda 
>kick butt... maybe you'll finally get your wish, but it is up to someone 
>else. Although I'm thinking some unpleasentries will pop up later in 
>Midkemia to create some problems for you to get your wish. But until/if 
>such time should occur, remember to enjoy whatcha got.
>
>Then again, this could all be complete nonsense that should be disregarded.
>
>... lots of "buts" in this message, sorry. And the "dream stealer" object 
>was the Codex of the lost god of knowledge that he had in his possession 
>for many years to experiment with and use- that should tell you volumes 
>about Nakor's.
>
>Hope something in this helps,
>Jud
>
>
>
>Ben wrote:
>>Hey, I've got another question.
>>
>>Are we ever going to figure out who Nakor really is? I mean we figure out 
>>that most of his knowledge comes from the "dream stealer" object, but we 
>>never figure out much of his history other than his marriage and how he 
>>is somewhat related (well not physically related). So i was just 
>>wondering if we will ever figure out who he is, even though he tells 
>>shortly of his life there has to be more behind it. Thanks!
>>
>>Ben
>>
>>
>>
>>Do You Yahoo!?
>><http://rd.yahoo.com/welcome/*http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com/fc/en/spl>Sign-up 
>>for Video Highlights of 2002 FIFA World Cup



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From: "Jeremy Wagner" <hedgehog@camano.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Question on Nakor possible spoilers
Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 20:19:43 -0700
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Jeremy Wagner" <hedgehog@camano.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Question on Nakor possible spoilers
Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 20:19:43 -0700
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I have never posted before, and since I am in the US and have only read the
books that have been published here I may be way off.  I think that Nakor is
kinda like that old woman in Tear of the Gods.  He is am imbodiment of
something else, at least that is what I thot that old woman was.   But I may
be way off base and if so someone please let me know

-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Al Burrell
>Sent: Monday, June 24, 2002 4:44 PM
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: Re: Question on Nakor possible spoilers
>
>
>I think not knowing too much about Nakor's past is what gives him that
>mysterious quality. Giving us his past might then take away that quality.
>
>Al
>
>At 18:26 24/06/2002 -0400, Jud Partin wrote:
>>You know Ben, with Nakor being one of my all time favorite characters,
>>I've had the same question running through my mind ever since I read
>>Prince of the Blood many years ago. After thinking about it I came to the
>>conclusion that you only need to know about Nakor's past if it directly
>>relates to understanding a problem at hand. Otherwise what is more
>>important are the ideas, thoughts and values he conveys... some of which
>>are even applicable to our world as well.
>>
>>But I have to admit, I too would love to hear about his past. I even love
>>to hear about his little adventures he goes on... like his excursion to
>>the Emerald Bitch's camp in SOADK - awesome. A random book about him
>>clowning around for a few years would be a great read (I think it would
>>difficult to write though- just my opinion which counts for what?). But I
>>think your wanting to hear all about his past is like wanting to see Yoda
>>kick butt... maybe you'll finally get your wish, but it is up to someone
>>else. Although I'm thinking some unpleasentries will pop up later in
>>Midkemia to create some problems for you to get your wish. But until/if
>>such time should occur, remember to enjoy whatcha got.
>>
>>Then again, this could all be complete nonsense that should be disregarded.
>>
>>... lots of "buts" in this message, sorry. And the "dream stealer" object
>>was the Codex of the lost god of knowledge that he had in his possession
>>for many years to experiment with and use- that should tell you volumes
>>about Nakor's.
>>
>>Hope something in this helps,
>>Jud
>>
>>
>>
>>Ben wrote:
>>>Hey, I've got another question.
>>>
>>>Are we ever going to figure out who Nakor really is? I mean we figure out
>>>that most of his knowledge comes from the "dream stealer" object, but we
>>>never figure out much of his history other than his marriage and how he
>>>is somewhat related (well not physically related). So i was just
>>>wondering if we will ever figure out who he is, even though he tells
>>>shortly of his life there has to be more behind it. Thanks!
>>>
>>>Ben
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Do You Yahoo!?
>>><http://rd.yahoo.com/welcome/*http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com/fc/en/spl>Sign
>-up
>>>for Video Highlights of 2002 FIFA World Cup
>


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From: Ben <volsballa34@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: Question on Nakor possible spoilers
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 21:09:39 -0700 (PDT)
From: Ben <volsballa34@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: Question on Nakor possible spoilers
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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 Ok thanks a lot guys!! See yall
Ben
  Jeremy Wagner <hedgehog@camano.net> wrote:
>I have never posted before, and since I am in the US and have only read the
>books that have been published here I may be way off. I think that Nakor is
>kinda like that old woman in Tear of the Gods. He is am imbodiment of
>something else, at least that is what I thot that old woman was. But I may
>be way off base and if so someone please let me know
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Al Burrell
>Sent: Monday, June 24, 2002 4:44 PM
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: Re: Question on Nakor possible spoilers
>
>
>I think not knowing too much about Nakor's past is what gives him that
>mysterious quality. Giving us his past might then take away that quality.
>
>Al
>
>At 18:26 24/06/2002 -0400, Jud Partin wrote:
>>You know Ben, with Nakor being one of my all time favorite characters,
>>I've had the same question running through my mind ever since I read
>>Prince of the Blood many years ago. After thinking about it I came to the
>>conclusion that you only need to know about Nakor's past if it directly
>>relates to understanding a problem at hand. Otherwise what is more
>>important are the ideas, thoughts and values he conveys... some of which
>>are even applicable to our world as well.
>>
>>But I have to admit, I too would love to hear about his past. I even love
>>to hear about his little adventures he goes on... like his excursion to
>>the Emerald Bitch's camp in SOADK - awesome. A random book about him
>>clowning around for a few years would be a great read (I think it would
>>difficult to write though- just my opinion which counts for what?). But I
>>think your wanting to hear all about his past is like wanting to see Yoda
>>kick butt... maybe you'll finally get your wish, but it is up to someone
>>else. Although I'm thinking some unpleasentries will pop up later in
>>Midkemia to create some problems for you to get your wish. But until/if
>>such time should occur, remember to enjoy whatcha got.
>>
>>Then again, this could all be complete nonsense that should be disregarded.
>>
>>... lots of "buts" in this message, sorry. And the "dream stealer" object
>>was the Codex of the lost god of knowledge that he had in his possession
>>for many years to experiment with and use- that should tell you volumes
>>about Nakor's.
>>
>>Hope something in this helps,
>>Jud
>>
>>
>>
>>Ben wrote:
>>>Hey, I've got another question.
>>>
>>>Are we ever going to figure out who Nakor really is? I mean we figure out
>>>that most of his knowledge comes from the "dream stealer" object, but we
>>>never figure out much of his history other than his marriage and how he
>>>is somewhat related (well not physically related). So i was just
>>>wondering if we will ever figure out who he is, even though he tells
>>>shortly of his life there has to be more behind it. Thanks!
>>>
>>>Ben
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Do You Yahoo!?
>>>Sign
>-up
>>>for Video Highlights of 2002 FIFA World Cup



---------------------------------
Do You Yahoo!?
Sign-up for Video Highlights of 2002 FIFA World Cup

1, edited,,
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From: "A Irving" <s355156@student.uq.edu.au>
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Subject: RE: Question on Nakor possible spoilers
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 14:13:09 +1000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "A Irving" <s355156@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Question on Nakor possible spoilers
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 14:13:09 +1000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Interesting thought, but why would the embodiment of one god, start a
church for another god (as nakor does with that girl he finds that
becomes a high priestess). (I know it requires a spoiler space, but I
can't remember which novel it was in).

CIAO,
      Aaron

http://www.hallofworlds.net/kerr/main.php
http://www.nightshadow.co.uk 


> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]
> On Behalf Of Jeremy Wagner
> Sent: Tuesday, 25 June 2002 1:20 PM
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Subject: RE: Question on Nakor possible spoilers
> 
> I have never posted before, and since I am in the US and have only read
> the
> books that have been published here I may be way off.  I think that Nakor
> is
> kinda like that old woman in Tear of the Gods.  He is am imbodiment of
> something else, at least that is what I thot that old woman was.   But I
> may
> be way off base and if so someone please let me know
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Al Burrell
> Sent: Monday, June 24, 2002 4:44 PM
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Subject: Re: Question on Nakor possible spoilers
> 
> 
> I think not knowing too much about Nakor's past is what gives him that
> mysterious quality. Giving us his past might then take away that quality.
> 
> Al
> 
> At 18:26 24/06/2002 -0400, Jud Partin wrote:
> >You know Ben, with Nakor being one of my all time favorite characters,
> >I've had the same question running through my mind ever since I read
> >Prince of the Blood many years ago. After thinking about it I came to the
> >conclusion that you only need to know about Nakor's past if it directly
> >relates to understanding a problem at hand. Otherwise what is more
> >important are the ideas, thoughts and values he conveys... some of which
> >are even applicable to our world as well.
> >
> >But I have to admit, I too would love to hear about his past. I even love
> >to hear about his little adventures he goes on... like his excursion to
> >the Emerald Bitch's camp in SOADK - awesome. A random book about him
> >clowning around for a few years would be a great read (I think it would
> >difficult to write though- just my opinion which counts for what?). But I
> >think your wanting to hear all about his past is like wanting to see Yoda
> >kick butt... maybe you'll finally get your wish, but it is up to someone
> >else. Although I'm thinking some unpleasentries will pop up later in
> >Midkemia to create some problems for you to get your wish. But until/if
> >such time should occur, remember to enjoy whatcha got.
> >
> >Then again, this could all be complete nonsense that should be
> disregarded.
> >
> >... lots of "buts" in this message, sorry. And the "dream stealer" object
> >was the Codex of the lost god of knowledge that he had in his possession
> >for many years to experiment with and use- that should tell you volumes
> >about Nakor's.
> >
> >Hope something in this helps,
> >Jud
> >
> >
> >
> >Ben wrote:
> >>Hey, I've got another question.
> >>
> >>Are we ever going to figure out who Nakor really is? I mean we figure
> out
> >>that most of his knowledge comes from the "dream stealer" object, but we
> >>never figure out much of his history other than his marriage and how he
> >>is somewhat related (well not physically related). So i was just
> >>wondering if we will ever figure out who he is, even though he tells
> >>shortly of his life there has to be more behind it. Thanks!
> >>
> >>Ben
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>Do You Yahoo!?
>
>><http://rd.yahoo.com/welcome/*http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com/fc/en/spl> Si
> gn
> -up
> >>for Video Highlights of 2002 FIFA World Cup



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From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Question on Nakor possible spoilers
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 15:15:16 +1000 (GMT+1000)
From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Question on Nakor possible spoilers
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

[Spoiler] Shards of a Broken Crown.

:)



> Interesting thought, but why would the embodiment of one god, start a
> church for another god (as nakor does with that girl he finds that
> becomes a high priestess). (I know it requires a spoiler space, but I
> can't remember which novel it was in).
> CIAO,
>       Aaron

My own opinion on Nakor is that he is simply a gambler who likes to help
out when he can :)


> > From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]
> > On Behalf Of Jeremy Wagner
> > Sent: Tuesday, 25 June 2002 1:20 PM
> > To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > Subject: RE: Question on Nakor possible spoilers
> >
> > I have never posted before, and since I am in the US and have only
> read
> > the
> > books that have been published here I may be way off.  I think that
> Nakor
> > is
> > kinda like that old woman in Tear of the Gods.  He is am imbodiment of
> > something else, at least that is what I thot that old woman was.   But
> I
> > may
> > be way off base and if so someone please let me know
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Al Burrell
> > Sent: Monday, June 24, 2002 4:44 PM
> > To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > Subject: Re: Question on Nakor possible spoilers
> >
> >
> > I think not knowing too much about Nakor's past is what gives him that
> > mysterious quality. Giving us his past might then take away that
> quality.
> >
> > Al
> >
> > At 18:26 24/06/2002 -0400, Jud Partin wrote:
> > >You know Ben, with Nakor being one of my all time favorite
> characters,
> > >I've had the same question running through my mind ever since I read
> > >Prince of the Blood many years ago. After thinking about it I came to
> the
> > >conclusion that you only need to know about Nakor's past if it
> directly
> > >relates to understanding a problem at hand. Otherwise what is more
> > >important are the ideas, thoughts and values he conveys... some of
> which
> > >are even applicable to our world as well.
> > >
> > >But I have to admit, I too would love to hear about his past. I even
> love
> > >to hear about his little adventures he goes on... like his excursion
> to
> > >the Emerald Bitch's camp in SOADK - awesome. A random book about him
> > >clowning around for a few years would be a great read (I think it
> would
> > >difficult to write though- just my opinion which counts for what?).
> But I
> > >think your wanting to hear all about his past is like wanting to see
> Yoda
> > >kick butt... maybe you'll finally get your wish, but it is up to
> someone
> > >else. Although I'm thinking some unpleasentries will pop up later in
> > >Midkemia to create some problems for you to get your wish. But
> until/if
> > >such time should occur, remember to enjoy whatcha got.
> > >
> > >Then again, this could all be complete nonsense that should be
> > disregarded.
> > >
> > >... lots of "buts" in this message, sorry. And the "dream stealer"
> object
> > >was the Codex of the lost god of knowledge that he had in his
> possession
> > >for many years to experiment with and use- that should tell you
> volumes
> > >about Nakor's.
> > >
> > >Hope something in this helps,
> > >Jud
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >Ben wrote:
> > >>Hey, I've got another question.
> > >>
> > >>Are we ever going to figure out who Nakor really is? I mean we
> figure
> > out
> > >>that most of his knowledge comes from the "dream stealer" object,
> but we
> > >>never figure out much of his history other than his marriage and how
> he
> > >>is somewhat related (well not physically related). So i was just
> > >>wondering if we will ever figure out who he is, even though he tells
> > >>shortly of his life there has to be more behind it. Thanks!
> > >>
> > >>Ben
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>Do You Yahoo!?
> >
> >><http://rd.yahoo.com/welcome/*http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com/fc/en/spl>
> Si
> > gn
> > -up
> > >>for Video Highlights of 2002 FIFA World Cup
>
>

Thanks
Darragh
================================================
msn: iamtheporkfireman@hotmail.com

"Believe or die - thank you O lord for all those
 options" - Bill Hicks.
================================================



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From: "Greg Bulloch" <somedude1_2000@hotmail.com>
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*** EOOH ***
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Nakor is just a guy who plays cards and knows a few tricks d:]


>From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
>Subject: RE: Question on Nakor possible spoilers
>Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 15:15:16 +1000 (GMT+1000)
>
>[Spoiler] Shards of a Broken Crown.
>
>:)
>
>
>
> > Interesting thought, but why would the embodiment of one god, start a
> > church for another god (as nakor does with that girl he finds that
> > becomes a high priestess). (I know it requires a spoiler space, but I
> > can't remember which novel it was in).
> > CIAO,
> >       Aaron
>
>My own opinion on Nakor is that he is simply a gambler who likes to help
>out when he can :)
>
>
> > > From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]
> > > On Behalf Of Jeremy Wagner
> > > Sent: Tuesday, 25 June 2002 1:20 PM
> > > To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > > Subject: RE: Question on Nakor possible spoilers
> > >
> > > I have never posted before, and since I am in the US and have only
> > read
> > > the
> > > books that have been published here I may be way off.  I think that
> > Nakor
> > > is
> > > kinda like that old woman in Tear of the Gods.  He is am imbodiment of
> > > something else, at least that is what I thot that old woman was.   But
> > I
> > > may
> > > be way off base and if so someone please let me know
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > > [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Al Burrell
> > > Sent: Monday, June 24, 2002 4:44 PM
> > > To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > > Subject: Re: Question on Nakor possible spoilers
> > >
> > >
> > > I think not knowing too much about Nakor's past is what gives him that
> > > mysterious quality. Giving us his past might then take away that
> > quality.
> > >
> > > Al
> > >
> > > At 18:26 24/06/2002 -0400, Jud Partin wrote:
> > > >You know Ben, with Nakor being one of my all time favorite
> > characters,
> > > >I've had the same question running through my mind ever since I read
> > > >Prince of the Blood many years ago. After thinking about it I came to
> > the
> > > >conclusion that you only need to know about Nakor's past if it
> > directly
> > > >relates to understanding a problem at hand. Otherwise what is more
> > > >important are the ideas, thoughts and values he conveys... some of
> > which
> > > >are even applicable to our world as well.
> > > >
> > > >But I have to admit, I too would love to hear about his past. I even
> > love
> > > >to hear about his little adventures he goes on... like his excursion
> > to
> > > >the Emerald Bitch's camp in SOADK - awesome. A random book about him
> > > >clowning around for a few years would be a great read (I think it
> > would
> > > >difficult to write though- just my opinion which counts for what?).
> > But I
> > > >think your wanting to hear all about his past is like wanting to see
> > Yoda
> > > >kick butt... maybe you'll finally get your wish, but it is up to
> > someone
> > > >else. Although I'm thinking some unpleasentries will pop up later in
> > > >Midkemia to create some problems for you to get your wish. But
> > until/if
> > > >such time should occur, remember to enjoy whatcha got.
> > > >
> > > >Then again, this could all be complete nonsense that should be
> > > disregarded.
> > > >
> > > >... lots of "buts" in this message, sorry. And the "dream stealer"
> > object
> > > >was the Codex of the lost god of knowledge that he had in his
> > possession
> > > >for many years to experiment with and use- that should tell you
> > volumes
> > > >about Nakor's.
> > > >
> > > >Hope something in this helps,
> > > >Jud
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >Ben wrote:
> > > >>Hey, I've got another question.
> > > >>
> > > >>Are we ever going to figure out who Nakor really is? I mean we
> > figure
> > > out
> > > >>that most of his knowledge comes from the "dream stealer" object,
> > but we
> > > >>never figure out much of his history other than his marriage and how
> > he
> > > >>is somewhat related (well not physically related). So i was just
> > > >>wondering if we will ever figure out who he is, even though he tells
> > > >>shortly of his life there has to be more behind it. Thanks!
> > > >>
> > > >>Ben
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>Do You Yahoo!?
> > >
> > >><http://rd.yahoo.com/welcome/*http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com/fc/en/spl>
> > Si
> > > gn
> > > -up
> > > >>for Video Highlights of 2002 FIFA World Cup
> >
> >
>
>Thanks
>Darragh
>================================================
>msn: iamtheporkfireman@hotmail.com
>
>"Believe or die - thank you O lord for all those
>  options" - Bill Hicks.
>================================================
>




_________________________________________________________________
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From: "Greg Bulloch" <somedude1_2000@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Crydee.com
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 21:03:30 +1000
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From: "Greg Bulloch" <somedude1_2000@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Crydee.com
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 21:03:30 +1000
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Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Hey John I think I sent an email to the guy who created crydee.com ages ago. 
Im not sure if thats you or not. But I would love to help out. I created 
sites of my own several times and maintained them well
while im not much with dreamweaver and flash and designing sites, i have 
plenty of free time to maintain crydee.com and im definatly capable of just 
updating news. Althought I dont have connections with ray, but im sure the 
list and you could help me out with that.
think about it because I'd love to help out.
One thing, I do have alot of friends who can do amazing things with webpages 
so if your looking to give crydee.com a facelift at any time Im sure I can 
get my friends to do it. Free of costs to. :)
cya


>From: John <john@crydee.com>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: Re: Crydee.com
>Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 18:10:37 +0100
>
>The Eternal Sorceror <bobkelly24@hotmail.com> writes
>>I was just wondering what was happening with www.crydee.com.
>
>Not much at the moment, been a little pre occupied, with my divorce, and my 
>new life. Divorce should be final in a couple of weeks, then I should loose 
>a lot of the stress, but new life is taking up a lot of spare time
>>I mean
>>that it hasn't been updated for a while and was just wondering if it was 
>>still
>>a reliable resource for feist information.
>Its as reliable as it was when it was last updated. :)
>Seriously if anyone wants to contribute to the news section just email me 
>the info and I will upload on a weekly basis or more often if I am able
>If possible I would like one or 2 people on a regular basis to assist in 
>the news
>
>>Not to take away from the
>>wonderful job the owner has done on it, it is a great site. If it is none 
>>of my
>>buissnes, pleas forgive me for this intrusion.
>No affront taken, I need to get things sorted, just not having much time at 
>present. But I will have 2 weeks in August :)
>> 
>>                                                                                                 
>>Thanks, Mike
>> 
>
>I have a few plans on how I would like to change parts of the site, but am 
>not sure how  to do it to make it easy to update, Still looking into it
>
>best
>
>--
>John
>
>john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
>http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.
>
>Raymond E Feist Ring
>http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm



_________________________________________________________________
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From: "Wouter Durnez" <arutha_of_krondor@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Question on Nakor possible spoilers
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From: "Wouter Durnez" <arutha_of_krondor@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Question on Nakor possible spoilers
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 13:40:27 +0000
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Yup, that's true. The mysticism is what makes Nakor cool. So Ray, please 
don't give away his past :)


>From: Al Burrell <al.burl@tiscali.co.uk>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: Re: Question on Nakor possible spoilers
>Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 00:44:15 +0100
>
>I think not knowing too much about Nakor's past is what gives him that 
>mysterious quality. Giving us his past might then take away that quality.
>
>Al
>
>At 18:26 24/06/2002 -0400, Jud Partin wrote:
>>You know Ben, with Nakor being one of my all time favorite characters, 
>>I've had the same question running through my mind ever since I read 
>>Prince of the Blood many years ago. After thinking about it I came to the 
>>conclusion that you only need to know about Nakor's past if it directly 
>>relates to understanding a problem at hand. Otherwise what is more 
>>important are the ideas, thoughts and values he conveys... some of which 
>>are even applicable to our world as well.
>>
>>But I have to admit, I too would love to hear about his past. I even love 
>>to hear about his little adventures he goes on... like his excursion to 
>>the Emerald Bitch's camp in SOADK - awesome. A random book about him 
>>clowning around for a few years would be a great read (I think it would 
>>difficult to write though- just my opinion which counts for what?). But I 
>>think your wanting to hear all about his past is like wanting to see Yoda 
>>kick butt... maybe you'll finally get your wish, but it is up to someone 
>>else. Although I'm thinking some unpleasentries will pop up later in 
>>Midkemia to create some problems for you to get your wish. But until/if 
>>such time should occur, remember to enjoy whatcha got.
>>
>>Then again, this could all be complete nonsense that should be 
>>disregarded.
>>
>>... lots of "buts" in this message, sorry. And the "dream stealer" object 
>>was the Codex of the lost god of knowledge that he had in his possession 
>>for many years to experiment with and use- that should tell you volumes 
>>about Nakor's.
>>
>>Hope something in this helps,
>>Jud
>>
>>
>>
>>Ben wrote:
>>>Hey, I've got another question.
>>>
>>>Are we ever going to figure out who Nakor really is? I mean we figure out 
>>>that most of his knowledge comes from the "dream stealer" object, but we 
>>>never figure out much of his history other than his marriage and how he 
>>>is somewhat related (well not physically related). So i was just 
>>>wondering if we will ever figure out who he is, even though he tells 
>>>shortly of his life there has to be more behind it. Thanks!
>>>
>>>Ben
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Do You Yahoo!?
>>><http://rd.yahoo.com/welcome/*http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com/fc/en/spl>Sign-up 
>>>for Video Highlights of 2002 FIFA World Cup




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From: Ziad El-Hajj <pilgrim@inco.com.lb>
Subject: Re: Question on Nakor (possible SPOILERS)
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Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 23:34:39 +0300
From: Ziad El-Hajj <pilgrim@inco.com.lb>
Subject: Re: Question on Nakor (possible SPOILERS)
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Ben wrote:

> Are we ever going to figure out who Nakor really is? I mean we figure
> out that most of his knowledge comes from the "dream stealer" object,
> but we never figure out much of his history other than his marriage
> and how he is somewhat related (well not physically related). So i was
> just wondering if we will ever figure out who he is, even though he
> tells shortly of his life there has to be more behind it. Thanks!

I remember (correct me if I'm wrong Ray) Ray once saying that Nakor is
everything we've seen of him from PotB through SoaBC. Ray also said he
had no idea why we always expected him to be "more than that". Besides,
if you piece together what he tells Anthony in TKB and the several
conversations in RoaDK and SoaBC where he brings up his past, you'll
notice they all click together and paint a rather substantial picture of
his past. Come to think of it, we know about his past as much as we do
about Macros and Miranda's. He even mentions going into the Hall at one
point (I think it was RoaDK), as well as meeting Macros (TKB and RoaDK).
You have his entire history with Jorna on several occasions, his youth
(TKB), his travels and discoveries... that's quite a lot of information!

I think the problem people have with Nakor is that they don't make the
connection between every little bit he says. If you take just what he
says in TKB, or in RoaDK, or in SoaBC, it isn't much. Take it all
together though, and his history takes full shape.

Actually the main reason I like Nakor so much (aside from his sense of
fun) is the way his story gradually unfolds as each detail becomes
relevant to the main story. In a way, it is more interesting than having
him appear out of nowhere then spill it all at once. It's much more fun
to let the reader put together all the pieces.



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Subject: Re: Question on Nakor (possible SPOILERS)
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I should also remind people that Ray told that he made Nakor become
more and more "dark" or "serious" as the books come out... and that it
will go on like this.

I have a question to ask, that might interest everyone. If you had to
compare Nakor to a character from a movie, who would it be ? I
recently watch Conan The Barbarian (the last DVD edition, the
director's cut) for the 5th time (love it) and I sometime think the
sorcerer (the narator) acts just like Nakor would.

Any other idea about comparing Nakor with an existing movie character ?

Syl



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The thing which is different between Nakor and all the other "sorcerers" - 
Pug Miranda and Macros, is that Pug, Miranda and Macros are all agents of 
Saric the lost god of magic. This seems to be one of the main reasons for 
their extraordinary powers. Others like Jorna got their power through Nalar. 
However, at the end of SoaBC, we learned that Nakor was not influenced by 
Saric as his face did not appear on Saric's statue. Therefore, one of the 
most confusing things about Nakor is where he gains his power from. His 
knowledge comes from the Codex, but that can't supply him with his magical 
abilities.
    I was just wondering, therefore where Nakor does get his powers. At one 
point I thought it might be from Arch-Indar, however after he set up the 
temple, he seemed to totally disconnect himself from it. Therefore, the only 
obvious option I can think of, that is probably wrong, is that he gets his 
power from the lost god of knowledge.

Ben



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From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Question on Nakor (SPOILERS)
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Spoilers for ALL books:)
s
p
o
i
l
e
r

s
p
a
c
e


> The thing which is different between Nakor and all the other "sorcerers" -
> Pug Miranda and Macros, is that Pug, Miranda and Macros are all agents of
> Saric the lost god of magic. This seems to be one of the main reasons for
> their extraordinary powers. Others like Jorna got their power through Nalar.
> However, at the end of SoaBC, we learned that Nakor was not influenced by
> Saric as his face did not appear on Saric's statue. Therefore, one of the
> most confusing things about Nakor is where he gains his power from. His
> knowledge comes from the Codex, but that can't supply him with his magical
> abilities.

I disagree on some things. The way I read it, all those upon Midkemia who
use non-priestly magic gain their power from Saric.

I don't see Pug etc as explicit 'agents' of Saric, more like allies. Their
mission now is to protect the world until balance is restored (i.e Arch
Indar is brought back to life).

While Nakor's face didnt appear on the statue, this does not mean that he
doesn't get his power from Saric. Rather, it means that for the time being
Nakor isn't in the 'direct'employ' of the God of Magic. I hope that makes
sense:P

>     I was just wondering, therefore where Nakor does get his powers. At one
> point I thought it might be from Arch-Indar, however after he set up the
> temple, he seemed to totally disconnect himself from it. Therefore, the only
> obvious option I can think of, that is probably wrong, is that he gets his
> power from the lost god of knowledge.
> Ben

I think he got his knowledge from the dream stealer book, but not
necessarily, his magical abilities.

Thanks
Darragh
================================================
msn: iamtheporkfireman@hotmail.com

"Believe or die - thank you O lord for all those
 options" - Bill Hicks.
================================================



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From: "Alex Loke" <nerf@alphalink.com.au>
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----- Original Message -----
From: <BH10BH000@AOL.COM>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, 26 June 2002 6:30
Subject: Re: Question on Nakor (SPOILERS)
>     I was just wondering, therefore where Nakor does get his powers. At one
> point I thought it might be from Arch-Indar, however after he set up the
> temple, he seemed to totally disconnect himself from it. Therefore, the only
> obvious option I can think of, that is probably wrong, is that he gets his
> power from the lost god of knowledge.

I feel really bad saying this but:

"There is no magic."

He doesn't believe that the 'stuff' he manipulates is magic since everyone
can use it. Similarly we don't call certain fundamental rules of physics
'magic' anymore now that we understand them. Nakor doesn't derive power from
Sarig since Sarig is the representation of 'magic' and Nakor doesn't use
'magic' he just manipulates the 'stuff'.

There are actually a few structured belief systems that believe in the 'all
is one' principal - that all life is made from the same 'stuff' hence powers
that we see as supernatural are well within our power to manipulate.

Interesting...

Regards,

Alex Loke
Now with Extra Walrus!



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Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 21:31:58 +1000
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Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 21:31:58 +1000
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: TeckerDaze <teckerdaze@cqnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: Question on Nakor (possible SPOILERS)
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Howdy all,

Been reading for awhile, replied a few times off list, but I just 
coulnd't resist for this one...

The Babboon character from The Lion King... extremely knowlegable, 
walks (and fights with a staff, and can be highly irritating when 
divulging information :)  I'm not too sure if the Disney character 
found amusement in strange situations (it's been awhile since I've 
seen it), but the other parts fit well.

I'll go back to my observation now :)

Teck.


>I should also remind people that Ray told that he made Nakor become 
>more and more "dark" or "serious" as the books come out... and that 
>it will go on like this.
>
>I have a question to ask, that might interest everyone. If you had 
>to compare Nakor to a character from a movie, who would it be ? I 
>recently watch Conan The Barbarian (the last DVD edition, the 
>director's cut) for the 5th time (love it) and I sometime think the 
>sorcerer (the narator) acts just like Nakor would.
>
>Any other idea about comparing Nakor with an existing movie character ?
>
>Syl



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From: "The Eternal Sorceror" <bobkelly24@hotmail.com>
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Subject: LaMut
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 23:44:53 +1000
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I am pleased to anounce that while I was browsing the on-line book
store www.qbdthebookshop.com I noticed they had a list of the top ten
books rated by them, and what did I see to my suprise at number 5,
thats right Murder in LaMut.

Thanks, Mike

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From: "Terri Lyn Layman" <terrilyn@fullnet.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Question on Nakor (SPOILERS)
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 09:24:58 -0500
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From: "Terri Lyn Layman" <terrilyn@fullnet.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Question on Nakor (SPOILERS)
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 09:24:58 -0500
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Maybe Nakor's like the old skee-ball playing guy in Dogma.

Just the form Saric takes when sie needs to get away from it all?

Sie then just proceeds to help/cause a little mischief as deemed necessary.

*g*

-TerriLyn

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of BH10BH000@aol.com
> Sent: Wednesday, June 26, 2002 3:30 AM
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Subject: Re: Question on Nakor (SPOILERS)
> 
> 
> The thing which is different between Nakor and all the other 
> "sorcerers" - 
> Pug Miranda and Macros, is that Pug, Miranda and Macros are 
> all agents of 
> Saric the lost god of magic. This seems to be one of the main 
> reasons for 
> their extraordinary powers. Others like Jorna got their power 
> through Nalar. 
> However, at the end of SoaBC, we learned that Nakor was not 
> influenced by 
> Saric as his face did not appear on Saric's statue. 
> Therefore, one of the 
> most confusing things about Nakor is where he gains his power 
> from. His 
> knowledge comes from the Codex, but that can't supply him 
> with his magical 
> abilities.
>     I was just wondering, therefore where Nakor does get his 
> powers. At one 
> point I thought it might be from Arch-Indar, however after he 
> set up the 
> temple, he seemed to totally disconnect himself from it. 
> Therefore, the only 
> obvious option I can think of, that is probably wrong, is 
> that he gets his 
> power from the lost god of knowledge.
> 
> Ben



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From: "Earl Borah" <earl@ncn.com>
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SPOILERS...Mostly SoaBK, some RoaDK



> The thing which is different between Nakor and all the other
> "sorcerers" - Pug Miranda and Macros, is that Pug, Miranda and
> Macros are all agents of Saric the lost god of magic. This seems to
> be one of the main reasons for their

Not at the beginning, they weren't. Macros was, since we first saw
him, but not Pug or Miranda. They don't become "agents" of Saric until
SoaBK.

Read the last few chapters of RoaDK (I'm just finishing a re-read of
it). In the discussion under Sethanon, they mention that Pug still
gets power from Kelewan, and the training he received there. They also
explain a lot of how Saric gets and gives power.

Part of this section also reveals something about Nakor (a lot of
somethings actually, but one related to magic): he admits he is a
tool, "in a sense." He also says at some point that knowledge is
power, and while he's not very powerful (in the sense that Pug or
Miranda are), he KNOWS a lot.

It all fits with the "there is no magic" line. If you just learn
enough, you don't need some special talent or talisman or chanting
mumbo-jumbo, you just DO whatever it is you do to work magic, even
very powerful magic. If you know enough, you don't have to have that
power in yourself, you use the power that exists in the world and is
just waiting to be used.



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Subject: Re: Question on Nakor (possible SPOILERS)
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Yeah, that's Nakor !

Very good comparison Teck. :)

Syl


> Howdy all,
> 
> Been reading for awhile, replied a few times off list, but I just 
> coulnd't resist for this one...
> 
> The Babboon character from The Lion King... extremely knowlegable, 
> walks (and fights with a staff, and can be highly irritating when 
> divulging information :)  I'm not too sure if the Disney character 
> found amusement in strange situations (it's been awhile since I've 
> seen it), but the other parts fit well.
> 
> I'll go back to my observation now :)
> 
> Teck.
> 
> 
> >I should also remind people that Ray told that he made Nakor become 
> >more and more "dark" or "serious" as the books come out... and that 
> >it will go on like this.
> >
> >I have a question to ask, that might interest everyone. If you had 
> >to compare Nakor to a character from a movie, who would it be ? I 
> >recently watch Conan The Barbarian (the last DVD edition, the 
> >director's cut) for the 5th time (love it) and I sometime think the 
> >sorcerer (the narator) acts just like Nakor would.
> >
> >Any other idea about comparing Nakor with an existing movie character ?
> >
> >Syl
> 
> 



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Subject: RE: Question on Nakor (possible SPOILERS)
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From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Question on Nakor (possible SPOILERS)
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2002 08:29:09 +0800
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If you're going down that path Yoda could almost fit into the category.
He can play the fool (first meeting with Luke on Dagobah), was wise &
powerful in the ways of the force (magic), and he was an awesome fighter
as well.

Dave

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu 
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of TeckerDaze
> Sent: Wednesday, 26 June 2002 7:32 PM
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Subject: Re: Question on Nakor (possible SPOILERS)
> 
> 
> Howdy all,
> 
> Been reading for awhile, replied a few times off list, but I just 
> coulnd't resist for this one...
> 
> The Babboon character from The Lion King... extremely knowlegable, 
> walks (and fights with a staff, and can be highly irritating when 
> divulging information :)  I'm not too sure if the Disney character 
> found amusement in strange situations (it's been awhile since I've 
> seen it), but the other parts fit well.
> 
> I'll go back to my observation now :)
> 
> Teck.
> 
> 
> >I should also remind people that Ray told that he made Nakor become 
> >more and more "dark" or "serious" as the books come out... and that 
> >it will go on like this.
> >
> >I have a question to ask, that might interest everyone. If you had 
> >to compare Nakor to a character from a movie, who would it be ? I 
> >recently watch Conan The Barbarian (the last DVD edition, the 
> >director's cut) for the 5th time (love it) and I sometime think the 
> >sorcerer (the narator) acts just like Nakor would.
> >
> >Any other idea about comparing Nakor with an existing movie 
> character ?
> >
> >Syl
> 



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Subject: What A Strange Little Taoist (was Re: Nakor)
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Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 23:09:30 EDT
Subject: What A Strange Little Taoist (was Re: Nakor)
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       I think I'd prefer the road less travelled as far as Nakor is 
concerned.  Whether Nakor has great intuition, The Codex's information, or 
copious amounts of luck, I'd like to believe that Nakor is really nothing 
more than tricks.  
       Remember Nakor's cardgame with Macros?  Simple slight of hand 
overpowered Macros's 'magic'.  What if Midkemia's greatest single living 
power was truly nothing more than a strange little man living life through 
tricks?
       I like the idea of simplicity.  Sure, there's some more to Nakor than 
meets the eye, but I'm a fan of Taoism, and much of Nakor's line of reasoning 
and intent is simple straightforwardness.  It's nice to see a character using 
pepper and apples to take out a powerful evil like Jorna instead of casting a 
thermonuclear spell or the like.

       Mike



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From: "A Irving" <s355156@student.uq.edu.au>
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Subject: RE: Question on Nakor (SPOILERS)
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2002 14:37:08 +1000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "A Irving" <s355156@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Question on Nakor (SPOILERS)
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2002 14:37:08 +1000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

He is an Isalani, and all Isalani's can do "tricks". His knowledge was
about lots of things, but I don't think it included knowledge of his use
of 'magic'. He used 'tricks' before he found the codex, so he must have
had some other form of knowledge about magic. Yeah he is not an agent of
Sarig, but is that because he doesn't use Sarig as a source of magic, or
is it because he does, but doesn't know it. Then again, it could be a
form of priestly magic (another God) that uses the higher path (or
multi-path) rather than chants and rituals. The only person who really
knows is REF, and we are suppose to know, I think he will tell us. He
taught soldiers to use their own energy, and surrounding energy, to
heal. Now are they using Sarig? Or is it more like Tao-ism / Tai Chi?
Pug Manipulates the stuff, his power comes from Sarig, and from
Kelewan.... is the God on Kelewan another face of Sarig?

CIAO,
      Aaron

http://www.hallofworlds.net/kerr/main.php
http://www.nightshadow.co.uk 


> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]
> On Behalf Of BH10BH000@aol.com
> Sent: Wednesday, 26 June 2002 6:30 PM
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Subject: Re: Question on Nakor (SPOILERS)
> 
> The thing which is different between Nakor and all the other "sorcerers" -
> Pug Miranda and Macros, is that Pug, Miranda and Macros are all agents of
> Saric the lost god of magic. This seems to be one of the main reasons for
> their extraordinary powers. Others like Jorna got their power through
> Nalar.
> However, at the end of SoaBC, we learned that Nakor was not influenced by
> Saric as his face did not appear on Saric's statue. Therefore, one of the
> most confusing things about Nakor is where he gains his power from. His
> knowledge comes from the Codex, but that can't supply him with his magical
> abilities.
>     I was just wondering, therefore where Nakor does get his powers. At
> one
> point I thought it might be from Arch-Indar, however after he set up the
> temple, he seemed to totally disconnect himself from it. Therefore, the
> only
> obvious option I can think of, that is probably wrong, is that he gets his
> power from the lost god of knowledge.
> 
> Ben



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Subject: RE: Question on Nakor (SPOILERS)
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2002 10:47:35 +0100 (BST)
From: Michael Gibson <gibbyfish@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: Question on Nakor (SPOILERS)
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

> He is an Isalani, and all Isalani's can do "tricks". His knowledge
> was
> about lots of things, but I don't think it included knowledge of
> his use
> of 'magic'. He used 'tricks' before he found the codex, so he must
> have
> had some other form of knowledge about magic. Yeah he is not an
> agent of
> Sarig, but is that because he doesn't use Sarig as a source of
> magic, or
> is it because he does, but doesn't know it. Then again, it could be
> a
> form of priestly magic (another God) that uses the higher path (or
> multi-path) rather than chants and rituals. The only person who
> really
> knows is REF, and we are suppose to know, I think he will tell us.

My take on it is that he directly manipulates "stuff", without the
intervention of another party.  This then becomes a "prayer" to
Sarig, due to the fact that all uses of magic (I use the term
loosely) count as such.

> He
> taught soldiers to use their own energy, and surrounding energy, to
> heal. Now are they using Sarig? Or is it more like Tao-ism / Tai
> Chi?
> Pug Manipulates the stuff, his power comes from Sarig, and from
> Kelewan.... is the God on Kelewan another face of Sarig?

I don't know Ray's answer to this, but I don't think magicians derive
their power from gods - they focus ambient (or perhaps internal)
energy in various ways, depending on whether they are Lesser/Greater
path, etc.



====Mike,
Gibfish of Faringdonia

"I meant, have you ploughed the ocean waves at all?"
Colon gave him a cunning look.
"Ah, you can't catch me with that one, sir," he said.  "Everyone knows the horses would sink."

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Everything you'll ever need on one web page
from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts
http://uk.my.yahoo.com



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From: Bumbling Oaf <bumbling_oaf@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: MiL Question
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2002 18:54:18 +0100 (BST)
From: Bumbling Oaf <bumbling_oaf@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: MiL Question
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


I think I might be a bit stupid, but can someone please tell me what
"The Bugs" are?

Thanks.

BO



---------------------------------
Relive the FIFA World Cup goals with exclusive video highlights!

http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com/fc/en

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Subject: Re: MiL Question
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*** EOOH ***
From: Russell.S.Teeter@kp.org
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: MiL Question
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2002 11:02:47 -0700
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

They are the Cho-ja from the servant series.  I believe they are also 
mentioned in Magician.

Russell S. Teeter
Senior Unix Administrator
(909) 270-1882 - T/L 395x1882




>Bumbling Oaf <bumbling_oaf@yahoo.co.uk>
>Sent by: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>06/27/2002 10:54 AM
>Please respond to FEISTFANS-L
>
> 
>	 To:     FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>	 cc: 
>	 Subject:        MiL Question
>
>
>I think I might be a bit stupid, but can someone please tell me what "The 
>Bugs" are?
>Thanks.
>BO
>
>Relive the FIFA World Cup goals with exclusive video highlights!
>
>http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com/fc/en

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The bugs are the Empire's Cho-ja (sp?)

Paddyjack
--

On Thu, 27 Jun 2002 18:54:18  
 Bumbling Oaf wrote:
>
>I think I might be a bit stupid, but can someone please tell me what "The Bugs" are?
>
>Thanks.
>
>BO
>
>
>
>---------------------------------
>Relive the FIFA World Cup goals with exclusive video highlights!
>
>http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com/fc/en


____________________________________________________________
Win a first-class trip to New Orleans and vacation Elvis Style!.
Enter NOW!
http://r.lycos.com/r/sagel_mail/http://www.elvis.lycos.com/sweepstakes/



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2002 11:30:00 -0700
Subject: Re: MiL Question
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
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On Thursday, June 27, 2002, at 10:54 AM, Bumbling Oaf wrote:

> I think I might be a bit stupid, but can someone please tell me what 
> "The Bugs" are?
>
> Thanks.
>

They are the Cho-ja, the insectoid creatures introduced in Magician and 
written about at length in Servant of the Empire and Mistress of the 
Empire.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: Sean Fister <sean@hope.kih.net>
Subject: Re: MiL Question
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Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2002 14:34:34 -0400
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: Sean Fister <sean@hope.kih.net>
Subject: Re: MiL Question
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At 01:54 PM 6/27/02, you wrote:

>I think I might be a bit stupid, but can someone please tell me what "The 
>Bugs" are?
>
>Thanks.
>
>BO
>
>
>
><http://uk.yahoo.com/mail/tagline_vip/?http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com/fc/en/spl>Relive 
>the FIFA World Cup goals with exclusive video highlights!
>
>http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com/fc/en


It took me a little while to figure this out too.  The Bugs are the Cho-ja 
<sp?> .

Sean Fister



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Cho-ja

Adieu
Jimmy


>From: Bumbling Oaf <bumbling_oaf@yahoo.co.uk>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: MiL Question
>Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2002 18:54:18 +0100 (BST)
>
>
>I think I might be a bit stupid, but can someone please tell me what "The 
>Bugs" are?
>
>Thanks.
>
>BO
>
>
>
>---------------------------------
>Relive the FIFA World Cup goals with exclusive video highlights!
>
>http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com/fc/en


_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com



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Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2002 13:19:29 -0700 (PDT)
From: Ben <volsballa34@yahoo.com>
Subject: Another question...(dont think there are spoilers, but maybe) :)
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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If Pug gets all of his powers from Sarig, is it possible for other
gods to give magical abilities to other people...or is it just limited
to Sarig because he is the lost god of magic? Or is there a limit to
the ability of the gods (other than their abilities to best each
other, or in the case of Nalar to just be able to limit his powers)?
Well i was just puzzling over these questions and hoping you guys
could give me some insight. Thanks alot

Ben 



---------------------------------
Do You Yahoo!?
Sign-up for Video Highlights of 2002 FIFA World Cup

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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2002 17:33:29 -0400
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: Sean Fister <sean@hope.kih.net>
Subject: Re: Another question...(dont think there are spoilers, but
  maybe) :)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

At 04:19 PM 6/27/02, you wrote:

>If Pug gets all of his powers from Sarig, is it possible for other gods to 
>give magical abilities to other people...or is it just limited to Sarig 
>because he is the lost god of magic? Or is there a limit to the ability of 
>the gods (other than their abilities to best each other, or in the case of 
>Nalar to just be able to limit his powers)? Well i was just puzzling over 
>these questions and hoping you guys could give me some insight. Thanks alot
>
>Ben

SPOILERS








I always got the impression that only Macros's powers came directly from 
Sarig per his more truthful account of his origins in Rage.  Pug, Miranda, 
et al just decided to redo the way they cast their spells in such a way as 
to make every spell a prayer to Sarig so as to bring him back sooner.  As 
for other Gods giving people magical abilities, I would guess that is what 
clerical magic is, though I suppose its possible that all clerical magic 
developed as a way of doing magic of a certain path while under the 
official sanction of the church.

Sean



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*** EOOH ***
From: SonOfTheTao@aol.com
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2002 18:07:31 EDT
Subject: Re: Another question...(dont think there are spoilers, but maybe) :)
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

In a message dated 6/27/02 4:50:31 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
volsballa34@yahoo.com writes:

Spoilers through Tear Of The Gods
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

> 
> If Pug gets all of his powers from Sarig, is it possible for other gods to 
> give magical abilities to other people...or is it just limited to Sarig 
> because he is the lost god of magic? Or is there a limit to the ability of 
> the gods (other than their abilities to best each other, or in the case of 
> Nalar to just be able to limit his powers)? Well i was just puzzling over 
> these questions and hoping you guys could give me some insight. Thanks alot
> 
> Ben 

       Look at what happened to William in Tear of The Gods.  He became an 
avatar of Kahooli by inheriting..."abilities" for a short time.  I would 
suppose the characteristics of any gift given from a god would depend on what 
the god wished the mortal being to have.

       Mike 

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*** EOOH ***
From: SonOfTheTao@aol.com
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2002 18:19:22 EDT
Subject: Re: Another question...(dont think there are spoilers, but maybe) :)
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


Spoilers up through I don't know what, but if you don't know the "secret" to 
magic, skip this post.

>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

In a message dated 6/27/02 6:04:17 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
sean@hope.kih.net writes:


> 
> I always got the impression that only Macros's powers came directly from 
> Sarig per his more truthful account of his origins in Rage.  Pug, Miranda, 
> et al just decided to redo the way they cast their spells in such a way as 
> to make every spell a prayer to Sarig so as to bring him back sooner.  As 
> for other Gods giving people magical abilities, I would guess that is what 
> clerical magic is, though I suppose its possible that all clerical magic 
> developed as a way of doing magic of a certain path while under the 
> official sanction of the church.
> 
> Sean
> 

       No redoing necessary.  Once the bridge between Sarig and Midkemia was 
open, all magic used is a small "get well soon" card to Sarig.  The 
explanation behind clerical magic was in...Rage I believe.  In essence 
clerical magic is an answered prayer from the priest's god.  If Dominic from 
Sarth created a shield of energy to protect himself, it would be cast through 
something akin to "oh dear God, I know I haven't been as devout as I should 
have and yes, I did skimp on this year's tithe, but I could really use a 
strong matrix of energy to protect me right about now."
      As Magic does not have a "living" representative (Sarig's pretty dead 
right now), outward, formal praying to Sarig wouldn't do much in the way of 
healing, etc.

       I THINK.

       Mike

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From: "Magnus Arvidsson" <magnus.arvidsson75@telia.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: name usage Murder in La Mut SPOILER
Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 02:31:57 +0200
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Magnus Arvidsson" <magnus.arvidsson75@telia.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: name usage Murder in La Mut SPOILER
Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 02:31:57 +0200
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Hi, I am currently reading Murder in La Mut and..
SPOILER MAYBE BELOW
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
This should be sufficient spoiler space don't you think? Anyway, back
to my thought on this latest novel.  I keep getting annoyed at the way
the names are used in some cases in this novel. Steven Argent and Tom
Garnett.. After 270 pages I suspect we should be able to get by with
only their last names or?!  -- Steven Argent said... Tom Garnett
answered.. Steven Argent then drank deeply.. Tom Garnett cleared his
throat.. -- I get the feeling the narrator thinks I - The Reader - am
quite numb in the skull, unable to remember names for more than 2
paragraphs. It ticks me off something badly! I can't remember Ray
using full names overly much before: Pug, the orphan boy or Arutha con
Dion and so on.. Only in the beginning of novels or when new
characters are introduced the use of full names can be a good thing...

I got badly irritated when I got 5 or 6 full names in my reading eye
from 1 and a half page of reading. I wonder if this is a technique
applied by Ray and Joel or if it is something else. I haven't seen it
in Ray's previous novels and this makes my a bit disapointed ( I know
you can't please everyone all of the time.. ;D ). This does however
take some of the reading pleaseure out of the novel, for me at
least. (I haven't been on this list for quite some time and this might
have been discussed before, sorry if I'm re-hashing an old thread..) I
vote Yea for the use of last names after being properly introduced to
characters. I vote no to the use of full names throughout the novel.
Most of us should be able to get the story without being reminded
every other paragraph of what Mr ARgent's first name is! (I know I'm
whining but I just stopped my reading-session because I got pissed at
the names being used over and over again.  Need to get it out of my
system! )

And why no action in 270 pages? ;D I have less than half the novel
left to read and nothing speedy, and reader-entrancing has happened
yet. I can't even think what could happen to speed things up in the
pages left.. (Don't tell me specific details if you feel like
encouraging me to read on ;D )

I would like to hear some opinions on this if it hasn't been covered
already! Oh, and if flames are coming my way be good old chaps and
send it directly to me.. =)

These are just my thoughts, please don't get overly agitated and don't
hate me for being whiny... ;D I just feel robbed of a good story so
far!

Here ends my ranting.

Sincerely
Magnus 

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From: "David P. Rouse" <viperphi@ezaccess.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: name usage Murder in La Mut SPOILER
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*** EOOH ***
From: "David P. Rouse" <viperphi@ezaccess.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: name usage Murder in La Mut SPOILER
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2002 20:47:21 -0400
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I don't know that Ray or Joel really care what any of our votes are.
They are the authors and we are the readers. I personally didn't find
the name issue to be a problem... In fact, I didn't even think about it
until this e-mail. As for the question regarding action, this is a book
with a plot. Those first 270 pages lead to something called a climax. If
you don't read those first 270 pages, you are unprepared and lost when
the climax comes. Not everything can be wham bam and then over like a
John Woo film.

As this is essentially a murder mystery in the end, action is merely a
sub-plot. I personally thought the book was well written and enjoyed it
thoroughly.

Sincerely,

David P. Rouse
Force PC

-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Magnus Arvidsson
>Sent: Thursday, June 27, 2002 8:32 PM
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: name usage Murder in La Mut SPOILER
>
>Hi, I am currently reading Murder in La Mut and..
>SPOILER MAYBE BELOW
>*
>*
>*
>*
>*
>*
>*
>*
>*
>*
>*
>*
>This should be sufficient spoiler space don't you think? Anyway, back to
>my thought on this latest novel.
>I keep getting annoyed at the way the names are used in some cases in
>this novel. Steven Argent and 
>Tom Garnett.. After 270 pages I suspect we should be able to get by with
>only their last names or?! 
>-- Steven Argent said... Tom Garnett answered.. Steven Argent then drank
>deeply.. Tom Garnett cleared 
>his throat.. -- I get the feeling the narrator thinks I - The Reader -
>am quite numb in the skull, unable to 
>remember names for more than 2 paragraphs. It ticks me off something
>badly! I can't remember
>Ray using full names overly much before: Pug, the orphan boy or Arutha
>con Dion and so on.. Only in the beginning of 
>novels or when new characters are introduced the use of full names can
>be a good thing... 
> 
>I got badly irritated when I got 5 or 6 full names in my reading eye
>from 1 and a half
>page of reading. I wonder if this is a technique applied by Ray and Joel
>or if it is
>something else. I haven't seen it in Ray's previous novels and this
>makes my a bit
>disapointed ( I know you can't please everyone all of the time.. ;D ).
>This does however take some
>of the reading pleaseure out of the novel, for me at least. (I haven't
>been on this list for quite some time
>and this might have been discussed before, sorry if I'm re-hashing an
>old thread..) I vote Yea for the use of
>last names after being properly introduced to characters. I vote no to
>the use of full names throughout the novel.
>Most of us should be able to get the story without being reminded every
>other paragraph of what Mr ARgent's first 
>name is! (I know I'm whining but I just stopped my reading-session
>because I got pissed at the names being used over and over again. 
>Need to get it out of my system! )
> 
>And why no action in 270 pages? ;D I have less than half the novel left
>to read and nothing speedy, and reader-entrancing
>has happened yet. I can't even think what could happen to speed things
>up in the pages left.. (Don't tell me specific details if you
>feel like encouraging me to read on ;D )
> 
>I would like to hear some opinions on this if it hasn't been covered
>already! Oh, and if flames are coming
>my way be good old chaps and send it directly to me.. =)
> 
>These are just my thoughts, please don't get overly agitated and don't
>hate me for being whiny... ;D I just feel robbed of
>a good story so far!
> 
>Here ends my ranting.
> 
>Sincerely
>Magnus 
>

---
[This E-mail scanned for viruses by IAS, an Archiventure Company]



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2002 17:52:59 -0700
From: Carl Dershem <dershem@cox.net>
Organization: Project Selene
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SonOfTheTao@aol.com wrote:
>        I think I'd prefer the road less travelled as far as Nakor is 
> concerned.  Whether Nakor has great intuition, The Codex's information, or 
> copious amounts of luck, I'd like to believe that Nakor is really nothing 
> more than tricks.  
>        Remember Nakor's cardgame with Macros?  Simple slight of hand 
> overpowered Macros's 'magic'.  What if Midkemia's greatest single living 
> power was truly nothing more than a strange little man living life through 
> tricks?
>        I like the idea of simplicity.  Sure, there's some more to Nakor than 
> meets the eye, but I'm a fan of Taoism, and much of Nakor's line of reasoning 
> and intent is simple straightforwardness.  It's nice to see a character using 
> pepper and apples to take out a powerful evil like Jorna instead of casting a 
> thermonuclear spell or the like.

I tend to think of Nakor as more than "just tricks" - he's very 
intelligent, very observant, very experienced, and with a wicked sense 
of humor.  Add the 'few tricks' to that, and you get someone who really 
doesn't need the raw power Pug has.  That said, give Pug a few centuries 
hanging around with Nakor, and we have the potential for someone 
*really* interesting.

cd
-- 
Death to all Absolutists!



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Subject: Re: name usage Murder in La Mut SPOILER
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Magnus Arvidsson" <magnus.arvidsson75@telia.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: name usage Murder in La Mut SPOILER
Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 03:22:51 +0200
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


Yes, maybe I was grouchy before I started to read tonight. But the use of
full names do get to me somewhat. =)
And I must have gone at the novel in the wrong way thinking it would be like
the others, not expecting a different
approach, a new style! I will most definitely read it to the end! But
seriously, if not in dialogue
or while introducing characters, why keep using full names? it wacks the
flow in a mysterious way! ;D
And this "thing" seems to have infected two characters only, Steven Argent
and Tom Garnette.. =)
It just jumps out at me! Be gone oh foul full-named beasts!

> I don't know that Ray or Joel really care what any of our votes are.
> They are the authors and we are the readers. I personally didn't find
> the name issue to be a problem... In fact, I didn't even think about it
> until this e-mail. As for the question regarding action, this is a book
> with a plot. Those first 270 pages lead to something called a climax. If
> you don't read those first 270 pages, you are unprepared and lost when
> the climax comes. Not everything can be wham bam and then over like a
> John Woo film.
>
> As this is essentially a murder mystery in the end, action is merely a
> sub-plot. I personally thought the book was well written and enjoyed it
> thoroughly.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> David P. Rouse
> Force PC
>
> >
> Hi, I am currently reading Murder in La Mut and..
> SPOILER MAYBE BELOW
> *
> *
> *
> *
> *
> *
> *
> *
> *
> *
> *
> *
> This should be sufficient spoiler space don't you think? Anyway, back to
> my thought on this latest novel.
> I keep getting annoyed at the way the names are used in some cases in
> this novel. Steven Argent and
> Tom Garnett.. After 270 pages I suspect we should be able to get by with
> only their last names or?!
> -- Steven Argent said... Tom Garnett answered.. Steven Argent then drank
> deeply.. Tom Garnett cleared
> his throat.. -- I get the feeling the narrator thinks I - The Reader -
> am quite numb in the skull, unable to
> remember names for more than 2 paragraphs. It ticks me off something
> badly! I can't remember
> Ray using full names overly much before: Pug, the orphan boy or Arutha
> con Dion and so on.. Only in the beginning of
> novels or when new characters are introduced the use of full names can
> be a good thing...
>
> I got badly irritated when I got 5 or 6 full names in my reading eye
> from 1 and a half
> page of reading. I wonder if this is a technique applied by Ray and Joel
> or if it is
> something else. I haven't seen it in Ray's previous novels and this
> makes my a bit
> disapointed ( I know you can't please everyone all of the time.. ;D ).
> This does however take some
> of the reading pleaseure out of the novel, for me at least. (I haven't
> been on this list for quite some time
> and this might have been discussed before, sorry if I'm re-hashing an
> old thread..) I vote Yea for the use of
> last names after being properly introduced to characters. I vote no to
> the use of full names throughout the novel.
> Most of us should be able to get the story without being reminded every
> other paragraph of what Mr ARgent's first
> name is! (I know I'm whining but I just stopped my reading-session
> because I got pissed at the names being used over and over again.
> Need to get it out of my system! )
>
> And why no action in 270 pages? ;D I have less than half the novel left
> to read and nothing speedy, and reader-entrancing
> has happened yet. I can't even think what could happen to speed things
> up in the pages left.. (Don't tell me specific details if you
> feel like encouraging me to read on ;D )
>
> I would like to hear some opinions on this if it hasn't been covered
> already! Oh, and if flames are coming
> my way be good old chaps and send it directly to me.. =)
>
> These are just my thoughts, please don't get overly agitated and don't
> hate me for being whiny... ;D I just feel robbed of
> a good story so far!
>
> Here ends my ranting.
>
> Sincerely
> Magnus
>
>




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From: "Joel Rosenberg" <joelr@ellegon.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: name usage Murder in La Mut SPOILER
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2002 20:41:14 -0500
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Joel Rosenberg" <joelr@ellegon.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: name usage Murder in La Mut SPOILER
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2002 20:41:14 -0500
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I care; I want everybody to absolutely love every word of every book I've
ever written.  I'm not holding my breath, though.

As to the action issue, I dunno.  It's intended to be a murder mystery, and
while there certainly are a few fight scenes, they're there not for the sake
of fight scenes or action, but, I would hope, to contribute to the story.

That said:  I'm glad you liked it, and I'm sorry that he didn't.

-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of David P. Rouse
>Sent: Thursday, June 27, 2002 7:47 PM
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: RE: name usage Murder in La Mut SPOILER
>
>
>I don't know that Ray or Joel really care what any of our votes are.
>They are the authors and we are the readers. I personally didn't find
>the name issue to be a problem... In fact, I didn't even think about it
>until this e-mail. As for the question regarding action, this is a book
>with a plot. Those first 270 pages lead to something called a climax. If
>you don't read those first 270 pages, you are unprepared and lost when
>the climax comes. Not everything can be wham bam and then over like a
>John Woo film.
>
>As this is essentially a murder mystery in the end, action is merely a
>sub-plot. I personally thought the book was well written and enjoyed it
>thoroughly.
>
>Sincerely,
>
>David P. Rouse
>Force PC
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Magnus Arvidsson
>Sent: Thursday, June 27, 2002 8:32 PM
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: name usage Murder in La Mut SPOILER
>
>Hi, I am currently reading Murder in La Mut and..
>SPOILER MAYBE BELOW
>*
>*
>*
>*
>*
>*
>*
>*
>*
>*
>*
>*
>This should be sufficient spoiler space don't you think? Anyway, back to
>my thought on this latest novel.
>I keep getting annoyed at the way the names are used in some cases in
>this novel. Steven Argent and
>Tom Garnett.. After 270 pages I suspect we should be able to get by with
>only their last names or?!
>-- Steven Argent said... Tom Garnett answered.. Steven Argent then drank
>deeply.. Tom Garnett cleared
>his throat.. -- I get the feeling the narrator thinks I - The Reader -
>am quite numb in the skull, unable to
>remember names for more than 2 paragraphs. It ticks me off something
>badly! I can't remember
>Ray using full names overly much before: Pug, the orphan boy or Arutha
>con Dion and so on.. Only in the beginning of
>novels or when new characters are introduced the use of full names can
>be a good thing...
> 
>I got badly irritated when I got 5 or 6 full names in my reading eye
>from 1 and a half
>page of reading. I wonder if this is a technique applied by Ray and Joel
>or if it is
>something else. I haven't seen it in Ray's previous novels and this
>makes my a bit
>disapointed ( I know you can't please everyone all of the time.. ;D ).
>This does however take some
>of the reading pleaseure out of the novel, for me at least. (I haven't
>been on this list for quite some time
>and this might have been discussed before, sorry if I'm re-hashing an
>old thread..) I vote Yea for the use of
>last names after being properly introduced to characters. I vote no to
>the use of full names throughout the novel.
>Most of us should be able to get the story without being reminded every
>other paragraph of what Mr ARgent's first
>name is! (I know I'm whining but I just stopped my reading-session
>because I got pissed at the names being used over and over again.
>Need to get it out of my system! )
> 
>And why no action in 270 pages? ;D I have less than half the novel left
>to read and nothing speedy, and reader-entrancing
>has happened yet. I can't even think what could happen to speed things
>up in the pages left.. (Don't tell me specific details if you
>feel like encouraging me to read on ;D )
> 
>I would like to hear some opinions on this if it hasn't been covered
>already! Oh, and if flames are coming
>my way be good old chaps and send it directly to me.. =)
> 
>These are just my thoughts, please don't get overly agitated and don't
>hate me for being whiny... ;D I just feel robbed of
>a good story so far!
> 
>Here ends my ranting.
> 
>Sincerely
>Magnus
>
>
>---
>[This E-mail scanned for viruses by IAS, an Archiventure Company]
>


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From: "Monwar" <randandpug1@ToughGuy.net>
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Subject: OT : WoT
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Monwar" <randandpug1@ToughGuy.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: OT : WoT
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2002 13:38:43 +0600
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I think I am bringing forward an old topic again, so sorry
if it's a repeatation.

I never thought I would like anything after Feist. But Wheel
of Time has completely overwhelmed me. I am at the fourth
book and Jordan is just amazing. Sorry if anyone differs,
but it IS a great series. Does any one know how many more
books Jim Rigney will take to finish it up??

As for the books, I am waiting now for Lan and Nynaeve to
reach some kind of agreement, and who knows whom Rand
chooses, Elayne or Min or.....ahh......Lanfear perhaps? He
can bring her to light :)! And Perrin going back to the Two
Rivers now with Fain and Whitecloaks there - it's all
getting a bit messy, but it also sounds great, and I just
finished my exam! But I'm afraid of finishing it all, so I
am just savoring it though I have 4500+ pgs still left to
read! Now don't spoil me please, but small and vague hints
should not hurt much :) [Ohh, as an afterthought - no hints.
Any spoiler is gonna ruin it for me :( )]

I hope I am not too OT and people are not offended by WoT
posts here! Sorry for the English though, my native tongue
is as different as it can get from English. Bye.

         - Monwar

______________________________

It is only the wisest and the stupidest that cannot change.



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*** EOOH ***
From: "Dennis Groome" <nallix@cox.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: WoT
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2002 21:43:52 -0500
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while the Wheel of Time series starts out strong, after book 4 or 5 it just
pans out and doesn't seem to go anywhere.  I gave up on it, I _might_ read
it once it's completed.  or Jordan's dead.  whichever happens first.

-Dennis H. Groome V
ICQ: 11430261 AIM/Yahoo: AmoNympham
Microsoft Messenger: marcus_giovani@hotmail.com




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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 12:50:32 +1000
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From: Anestis Kozakis <kenosti@labyrinth.net.au>
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Please, if you want to talk about WoT, go to a WoT forum or join a 
WoT mailing list.

Anestis.
-- 
kenosti@labyrinth.net.au
"A complete list of this film's associate producers
  is available upon request."
    -- In End Credits for "State and Main"



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2002 20:06:09 -0700 (PDT)
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 What is Wheel of Time about (without giving too much away in case i
want to read) is it anything similar to Feist? just wondering. 
  Monwar <randandpug1@ToughGuy.net> wrote:
>I think I am bringing forward an old topic again, so sorry
>if it's a repeatation.
>
>I never thought I would like anything after Feist. But Wheel
>of Time has completely overwhelmed me. I am at the fourth
>book and Jordan is just amazing. Sorry if anyone differs,
>but it IS a great series. Does any one know how many more
>books Jim Rigney will take to finish it up??
>
>As for the books, I am waiting now for Lan and Nynaeve to
>reach some kind of agreement, and who knows whom Rand
>chooses, Elayne or Min or.....ahh......Lanfear perhaps? He
>can bring her to light :)! And Perrin going back to the Two
>Rivers now with Fain and Whitecloaks there - it's all
>getting a bit messy, but it also sounds great, and I just
>finished my exam! But I'm afraid of finishing it all, so I
>am just savoring it though I have 4500+ pgs still left to
>read! Now don't spoil me please, but small and vague hints
>should not hurt much :) [Ohh, as an afterthought - no hints.
>Any spoiler is gonna ruin it for me :( )]
>
>I hope I am not too OT and people are not offended by WoT
>posts here! Sorry for the English though, my native tongue
>is as different as it can get from English. Bye.
>
>- Monwar
>
>______________________________
>
>It is only the wisest and the stupidest that cannot change.
>


---------------------------------
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From: "Michelle Thomson" <chell_40@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Another question...(dont think there are spoilers, but maybe) :)
Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 06:08:23 +0000
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From: "Michelle Thomson" <chell_40@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re: Another question...(dont think there are spoilers, but maybe) :)
Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 06:08:23 +0000
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>Spoilers up through I don't know what, but if you don't know the "secret" 
>to magic, skip this post.
>
> > > > > > > > > > > >
>
>In a message dated 6/27/02 6:04:17 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
>sean@hope.kih.net writes:
>
>
> > > I always got the impression that only Macros's powers came directly 
>from > Sarig per his more truthful account of his origins in Rage. Pug, 
>Miranda, > et al just decided to redo the way they cast their spells in 
>such a way as > to make every spell a prayer to Sarig so as to bring him 
>back sooner. As > for other Gods giving people magical abilities, I would 
>guess that is what > clerical magic is, though I suppose its possible that 
>all clerical magic > developed as a way of doing magic of a certain path 
>while under the > official sanction of the church. > > Sean >
>
>No redoing necessary. Once the bridge between Sarig and Midkemia was open, 
>all magic used is a small "get well soon" card to Sarig. The explanation 
>behind clerical magic was in...Rage I believe. In essence clerical magic is 
>an answered prayer from the priest's god. If Dominic from Sarth created a 
>shield of energy to protect himself, it would be cast through something 
>akin to "oh dear God, I know I haven't been as devout as I should have and 
>yes, I did skimp on this year's tithe, but I could really use a strong 
>matrix of energy to protect me right about now." As Magic does not have a 
>"living" representative (Sarig's pretty dead right now), outward, formal 
>praying to Sarig wouldn't do much in the way of healing, etc.
>
>I THINK.
>
>Mike

Unfortunately I don't think you can entirely apply this theory.  Whilst 
Sarig is not exactly living, neither is Ishap.  My understanding is that 
Ishap is very weak/gone for now.  The kind of energy Dominic and other 
Ishapians display cannot entirely be explained as a kind of prayer, 
especially to a god that barely exists.  Therefore there must be more to it 
at least in relation to these two gods, may apply to others.

Cheers

Michelle

_________________________________________________________________
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From: Grandad Rufus <rufo@bigwig.net>
Subject: Re: name usage Murder in La Mut SPOILER
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 <KDEEKBJOIPMHHKLLHFBIEEKGCCAA.joelr@ellegon.com>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 08:37:21 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: Grandad Rufus <rufo@bigwig.net>
Subject: Re: name usage Murder in La Mut SPOILER
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

In article <KDEEKBJOIPMHHKLLHFBIEEKGCCAA.joelr@ellegon.com>, Joel
Rosenberg <joelr@ellegon.com> writes
>I care; I want everybody to absolutely love every word of every book I've
>ever written.  I'm not holding my breath, though.
>
>As to the action issue, I dunno.  It's intended to be a murder mystery, and
>while there certainly are a few fight scenes, they're there not for the sake
>of fight scenes or action, but, I would hope, to contribute to the story.
>
>That said:  I'm glad you liked it, and I'm sorry that he didn't.

I'll add my 2 Groats worth here ...

Well, I gotta say I *loved* the ending.
Was it you or Ray came up with it? ( just curious ).

As for the use of Full Names, it seemed to show that these were people
with Authority, rather than just ordinary folk.
-- 
*******
Grandad Rufus.

It's not that I have a dirty mind, you understand.
It's just that so many of my thoughts leave muddy little footprints...



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From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: OT : WoT
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I seriously suggest you reserve comment on that series till you've readd
up to book 9.

I thought WoT was great up until about Lord of Chaos, then it got boring
real fast.

If you like an author who packs a great amount of detail into their world,
try GRR MArtin's A Song of Ice and Fire, IMOHO he does it better than
Jordan.

> I think I am bringing forward an old topic again, so sorry
> if it's a repeatation.
>
> I never thought I would like anything after Feist. But Wheel
> of Time has completely overwhelmed me. I am at the fourth
> book and Jordan is just amazing. Sorry if anyone differs,
> but it IS a great series. Does any one know how many more
> books Jim Rigney will take to finish it up??
>
> As for the books, I am waiting now for Lan and Nynaeve to
> reach some kind of agreement, and who knows whom Rand
> chooses, Elayne or Min or.....ahh......Lanfear perhaps? He
> can bring her to light :)! And Perrin going back to the Two
> Rivers now with Fain and Whitecloaks there - it's all
> getting a bit messy, but it also sounds great, and I just
> finished my exam! But I'm afraid of finishing it all, so I
> am just savoring it though I have 4500+ pgs still left to
> read! Now don't spoil me please, but small and vague hints
> should not hurt much :) [Ohh, as an afterthought - no hints.
> Any spoiler is gonna ruin it for me :( )]
>
> I hope I am not too OT and people are not offended by WoT
> posts here! Sorry for the English though, my native tongue
> is as different as it can get from English. Bye.
>
>          - Monwar
>
> ______________________________
>
> It is only the wisest and the stupidest that cannot change.
>
>

Thanks
Darragh
================================================
msn: iamtheporkfireman@hotmail.com

"Believe or die - thank you O lord for all those
 options" - Bill Hicks.
================================================



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From: "Magnus Arvidsson" <magnus.arvidsson75@telia.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
References: <KDEEKBJOIPMHHKLLHFBIEEKGCCAA.joelr@ellegon.com>
Subject: Re: name usage Murder in La Mut SPOILER
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Magnus Arvidsson" <magnus.arvidsson75@telia.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: name usage Murder in La Mut SPOILER
Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 13:00:09 +0200
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Joel, I like the book! I have been reading it as though it
was another action packed Ray-Midkemia-based-novel.
It never dawned on me that perhaps Ray and you wanted something
different this time. I didn't love every word of the book, but that's no big
deal!
And I haven't even finished it yet! So be at ease Joel ;D I'm going to read
it as a murder
mystery from now on! =) And I just have to read your stuff now! (Ray I will
keep buy yours as well
;D )

Sincerely

Magnus
-----


> I care; I want everybody to absolutely love every word of every book I've
> ever written.  I'm not holding my breath, though.
>
> As to the action issue, I dunno.  It's intended to be a murder mystery, and
> while there certainly are a few fight scenes, they're there not for the sake
> of fight scenes or action, but, I would hope, to contribute to the story.
>
> That said:  I'm glad you liked it, and I'm sorry that he didn't.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of David P. Rouse
> Sent: Thursday, June 27, 2002 7:47 PM
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Subject: RE: name usage Murder in La Mut SPOILER
>
>
> I don't know that Ray or Joel really care what any of our votes are.
> They are the authors and we are the readers. I personally didn't find
> the name issue to be a problem... In fact, I didn't even think about it
> until this e-mail. As for the question regarding action, this is a book
> with a plot. Those first 270 pages lead to something called a climax. If
> you don't read those first 270 pages, you are unprepared and lost when
> the climax comes. Not everything can be wham bam and then over like a
> John Woo film.
>
> As this is essentially a murder mystery in the end, action is merely a
> sub-plot. I personally thought the book was well written and enjoyed it
> thoroughly.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> David P. Rouse
> Force PC
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Magnus Arvidsson
> Sent: Thursday, June 27, 2002 8:32 PM
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Subject: name usage Murder in La Mut SPOILER
>
> Hi, I am currently reading Murder in La Mut and..
> SPOILER MAYBE BELOW
> *
> *
> *
> *
> *
> *
> *
> *
> *
> *
> *
> *
> This should be sufficient spoiler space don't you think? Anyway, back to
> my thought on this latest novel.
> I keep getting annoyed at the way the names are used in some cases in
> this novel. Steven Argent and
> Tom Garnett.. After 270 pages I suspect we should be able to get by with
> only their last names or?!
> -- Steven Argent said... Tom Garnett answered.. Steven Argent then drank
> deeply.. Tom Garnett cleared
> his throat.. -- I get the feeling the narrator thinks I - The Reader -
> am quite numb in the skull, unable to
> remember names for more than 2 paragraphs. It ticks me off something
> badly! I can't remember
> Ray using full names overly much before: Pug, the orphan boy or Arutha
> con Dion and so on.. Only in the beginning of
> novels or when new characters are introduced the use of full names can
> be a good thing...
>
> I got badly irritated when I got 5 or 6 full names in my reading eye
> from 1 and a half
> page of reading. I wonder if this is a technique applied by Ray and Joel
> or if it is
> something else. I haven't seen it in Ray's previous novels and this
> makes my a bit
> disapointed ( I know you can't please everyone all of the time.. ;D ).
> This does however take some
> of the reading pleaseure out of the novel, for me at least. (I haven't
> been on this list for quite some time
> and this might have been discussed before, sorry if I'm re-hashing an
> old thread..) I vote Yea for the use of
> last names after being properly introduced to characters. I vote no to
> the use of full names throughout the novel.
> Most of us should be able to get the story without being reminded every
> other paragraph of what Mr ARgent's first
> name is! (I know I'm whining but I just stopped my reading-session
> because I got pissed at the names being used over and over again.
> Need to get it out of my system! )
>
> And why no action in 270 pages? ;D I have less than half the novel left
> to read and nothing speedy, and reader-entrancing
> has happened yet. I can't even think what could happen to speed things
> up in the pages left.. (Don't tell me specific details if you
> feel like encouraging me to read on ;D )
>
> I would like to hear some opinions on this if it hasn't been covered
> already! Oh, and if flames are coming
> my way be good old chaps and send it directly to me.. =)
>
> These are just my thoughts, please don't get overly agitated and don't
> hate me for being whiny... ;D I just feel robbed of
> a good story so far!
>
> Here ends my ranting.
>
> Sincerely
> Magnus
>
>
> ---
> [This E-mail scanned for viruses by IAS, an Archiventure Company]
>



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From: Caranorn Aglaredhel <caranorn@cmdnet.lu>
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Monwar, this really reminds me of a mailing list I was on back when 
those books first came out (well around when book 5 came out). I wish 
that list still existed, but last I heard it had changed to some form of 
WoT trivia contest rather then the old discussions and fun.

I won't tell you anything about the books you haven't read yet. Just 
remember that nothing seems to be impossible in WoT and accordingly few 
things seem to be final. I think the next book you are about to read was 
the one I preferred of the lot (unless I'm mistaken, anyhow I mean the 
one where Perrin arrives in the Two Rivers etc.)

As for those who feel the books lose in quality as Jordan goes further 
in writting, I have to agree somewhat. But my main problem is that with 
the later books, too many characters have been developed to include even 
a significant proportion in a single book and very few are wrapped up 
yet. That means that you could read a full book without a likeable 
character (I hate Rand and was co-founder of a Rand is thickheaded 
society in the days of the old list I mentionned before). There are also 
some other issues I somewhat agree with concerning books 7 and further 
(roughly). For now, I have stopped to buy Jordan hardcovers, but plan to 
catch up on his work once I can better afford it (after any of Ray's 
books which I might not have bought by then).

Marc aka Caran... formerly prophet and secretary of Leya (or what's that 
damnable horse's (who really must be the creator) name), member of the 
Lanfear fanclub, co-founder of the rand is thickheaded society and a 
score of other WoT organisations, one madder then the other (as 
appropriate for WoT)

P.S.: Oh and of course blademaster, I just can't recall all those old 
titles.

Monwar wrote:

>I think I am bringing forward an old topic again, so sorry
>if it's a repeatation.
>
>I never thought I would like anything after Feist. But Wheel
>of Time has completely overwhelmed me. I am at the fourth
>book and Jordan is just amazing. Sorry if anyone differs,
>but it IS a great series. Does any one know how many more
>books Jim Rigney will take to finish it up??
>
>As for the books, I am waiting now for Lan and Nynaeve to
>reach some kind of agreement, and who knows whom Rand
>chooses, Elayne or Min or.....ahh......Lanfear perhaps? He
>can bring her to light :)! And Perrin going back to the Two
>Rivers now with Fain and Whitecloaks there - it's all
>getting a bit messy, but it also sounds great, and I just
>finished my exam! But I'm afraid of finishing it all, so I
>am just savoring it though I have 4500+ pgs still left to
>read! Now don't spoil me please, but small and vague hints
>should not hurt much :) [Ohh, as an afterthought - no hints.
>Any spoiler is gonna ruin it for me :( )]
>
>I hope I am not too OT and people are not offended by WoT
>posts here! Sorry for the English though, my native tongue
>is as different as it can get from English. Bye.
>
>         - Monwar
>




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Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 06:06:28 -0700
Subject: Re: name usage Murder in La Mut SPOILER
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Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 06:06:28 -0700
Subject: Re: name usage Murder in La Mut SPOILER
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
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On Friday, June 28, 2002, at 12:37 AM, Grandad Rufus wrote:

> In article <KDEEKBJOIPMHHKLLHFBIEEKGCCAA.joelr@ellegon.com>, Joel
> Rosenberg <joelr@ellegon.com> writes
>> I care; I want everybody to absolutely love every word of every book 
>> I've
>> ever written.  I'm not holding my breath, though.
>>
>> As to the action issue, I dunno.  It's intended to be a murder 
>> mystery, and
>> while there certainly are a few fight scenes, they're there not for 
>> the sake
>> of fight scenes or action, but, I would hope, to contribute to the 
>> story.
>>
>> That said:  I'm glad you liked it, and I'm sorry that he didn't.
>
> I'll add my 2 Groats worth here ...
>
> Well, I gotta say I *loved* the ending.
> Was it you or Ray came up with it? ( just curious ).

The ending was Joel's, as to "whodunit."
>
> As for the use of Full Names, it seemed to show that these were people
> with Authority, rather than just ordinary folk.
>

I never noticed.  Joel started that in the first draft and I never 
changed it, mostly because we had cloned three of his better characters 
and they were the point-of-view guys.  It seemed to fit with how they 
looked at the world around them.

It's one of the reasons I like collaborating; it allows me to see things 
through another writers eyes, as it were, and participate in choices I 
never would have made had I written the thing by myself.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 16:27:58 +0100
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Subject: Re: OT : WoT
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 <Pine.OSF.4.30.0206281809380.12422-100000@student.uq.edu.au>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 16:27:58 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: Andrea J Chee <andrea@bloodaxe.com>
Subject: Re: OT : WoT
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In article <Pine.OSF.4.30.0206281809380.12422-100000@student.uq.edu.au>,
Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au> writes
>
>I seriously suggest you reserve comment on that series till you've readd
>up to book 9.

I never got that far. I was enjoying it up until about book 5 but after
that it just seemed to be big long books for their own sake, with little
progress being made in the plot. I have no complaints about big long
books - I love them - but these were just such a lot of effort to read
for very little development of the story, with ever-increasing character
complications until I couldn't even remember who most of them were. I
read up to number 7 and gave up.

- ANDREA

-- 
^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^
                  ANDROMEDA - Internet Goddess
<andrea@bloodaxe.com>                    http://www.bloodaxe.com/
Bloodaxe's History Links:   http://www.geocities.com/Athens/5055/
The Loony Bin Archive:               http://www.theloonies.co.uk/



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From: Scott.VanderPloeg@kctcs.edu
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: RE: WoT
Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 15:13:54 -0400
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If anyone wants to follow the Wheel o Time series, but doesn't wish to
re-read the entire set, I have a brief plot summary and analysis in Magill's
Guide to Science Fiction and Fantasy Literature, 4 vol., 1996.  This runs
through the first six books, something like 4,187 pages.  I agree that the
threads tend to unravel as the series progresses.  The article is indexed
under the pseudonym Robert Jordan.

Scott Vander Ploeg

-----Original Message-----
>From: Dennis Groome [mailto:nallix@cox.net]
>Sent: Thursday, June 27, 2002 9:44 PM
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: Re: WoT
>
>
>while the Wheel of Time series starts out strong, after book 4 or 5 it just
>pans out and doesn't seem to go anywhere.  I gave up on it, I _might_ read
>it once it's completed.  or Jordan's dead.  whichever happens first.
>
>-Dennis H. Groome V
>ICQ: 11430261 AIM/Yahoo: AmoNympham
>Microsoft Messenger: marcus_giovani@hotmail.com
>


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Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 19:39:52 EDT
Subject: Magnus?
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From: Gkhd11a@aol.com
Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 19:39:52 EDT
Subject: Magnus?
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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    Is Magnus your real first name, Arvidsson?  I know that in Latin it means 
great, but I had never herd of anyone using that as a real name, with the 
exception of one of the roman emperors who used it as a sort of nick name.  
Or are you just using it as a homage to Pug's soon-to-be son, as I do 
sometimes?



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From: Erik Trulsson <ertr1013@student.uu.se>
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On Fri, Jun 28, 2002 at 07:39:52PM -0400, Gkhd11a@aol.com wrote:
>     Is Magnus your real first name, Arvidsson?  I know that in Latin it means 
> great, but I had never herd of anyone using that as a real name, with the 
> exception of one of the roman emperors who used it as a sort of nick name.  
> Or are you just using it as a homage to Pug's soon-to-be son, as I do 
> sometimes?
> 

I would assume it is his real name.  Judging from his name and
email-address he seems to be from Sweden, and Magnus is a fairly 
common name here in Sweden.


-- 
<Insert your favourite quote here.>
Erik Trulsson
ertr1013@student.uu.se



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Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2002 01:23:26 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: Al Burrell <al.burl@tiscali.co.uk>
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There was the Mastermind presenter called Magnus Magnuson here in the UK. 
He was Icelandic. Also I think there was once a winner of The World's 
Strongest Man was called Magnus something.

Al

At 19:39 28/06/2002 -0400, Gkhd11a@aol.com wrote:
>     Is Magnus your real first name, Arvidsson?  I know that in Latin it 
> means
>great, but I had never herd of anyone using that as a real name, with the
>exception of one of the roman emperors who used it as a sort of nick name.
>Or are you just using it as a homage to Pug's soon-to-be son, as I do
>sometimes?



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Al Burrell wrote:
> 
> There was the Mastermind presenter called Magnus Magnuson here in the UK.
> He was Icelandic. Also I think there was once a winner of The World's
> Strongest Man was called Magnus something.

Magnus Magnusson :)

Craig J. Ries



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From: Erik Trulsson <ertr1013@student.uu.se>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On Fri, Jun 28, 2002 at 06:25:27PM -0600, Craig J. Ries wrote:
> Al Burrell wrote:
> > 
> > There was the Mastermind presenter called Magnus Magnuson here in the UK.
> > He was Icelandic. Also I think there was once a winner of The World's
> > Strongest Man was called Magnus something.
> 
> Magnus Magnusson :)

There has actually been two of them: An Icelandic guy named Magnus Ver
Magnusson and a Swede named Magnus Samuelsson.


-- 
<Insert your favourite quote here.>
Erik Trulsson
ertr1013@student.uu.se



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From: JEEPMONSTER69@aol.com
Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 22:50:29 EDT
Subject: OT: The Stand
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       I just finished reading The Stand By Stephen King...IMOHO, his 
masterpiece.  Has anyone else read this book? Just looking for a discussion 
on it.
       
                                                             Thanks,
                                                                   Matt

"Lets Roll."- Todd Beamer
USA, Muthafacko!

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Subject: Re: OT : WoT
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Monwar" <randandpug1@ToughGuy.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: OT : WoT
Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 12:20:17 +0600
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>[BEN] : What is Wheel of Time about (without giving too
>much away in case i want to read) is it anything similar to
>Feist? just wondering.

I have read only the first four books so I can only give you
an idea based on that. It starts first with 3 young men
named Rand, Mat and Perrin from a obscure hinterland of a
Kingdom (or Queendom??) called Andor. They are attcaked by
vicious creatures of the Dark one, the source of evil,
antithesis of the Creator. Then a powerful magic-user and
his fighter companion (an Aes Sedai and an warder to be
exact) takes them on a flight to a lot of places. Soon 3
more women, an ogier, a gleeman and many other ppl and
things join them as you will find out when you read. Their
paths become divided soon but they do join each other later.

Rand becomes the Dragon Reborn ("According to prophecy and
legend the Dragon will be born again at mankind's
greatest hour of need to save the world. This is not
something people look forward to, both because the
prophecies say the Dragon Reborn will bring a new Breaking
to the world, and because Lews Therin Kinslayer, the Dragon,
is a name to make men shudder, even more than three thousand
years after his death."). His two friends become somthing
else which I haven't yet found out. The women become
powerful magic users etc and there is a lot of plotting
going on in these books. It's very long though, and the
first 200 pgs of the first book isn't very attractive, but
it gets very good later.

>Please, if you want to talk about WoT, go to a WoT forum or join a
>WoT mailing list.

>Anestis.

I am afraid people don't like it much talking about WoT in
this group. I just wanted to know the opinions of Feistfans
about the series which no WoT forum or ml can give. Anyway,
I will not post anymore on this topic.

Thank you!

         - Monwar

______________________________

It is only the wisest and the stupidest that cannot change.




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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2002 13:03:47 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: Al Burrell <al.burl@tiscali.co.uk>
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Close enough. ;)

Al

At 18:25 28/06/2002 -0600, Craig J. Ries wrote:
>Al Burrell wrote:
> >
> > There was the Mastermind presenter called Magnus Magnuson here in the UK.
> > He was Icelandic. Also I think there was once a winner of The World's
> > Strongest Man was called Magnus something.
>
>Magnus Magnusson :)
>
>Craig J. Ries



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Yop, read it like 15 times. It's my fave SK book. I
loved that the second time around, the missing sections
was put back in.
  
BB
 
 Anita
  

 'Every happy ending needs to have a start.'

___________________________________________________________________
Join the Space Program: Get FREE E-mail at http://www.space.com.



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Subject: Re: Magnus?
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Magnus Arvidsson" <magnus.arvidsson75@telia.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Magnus?
Date: Sun, 30 Jun 2002 18:16:15 +0200
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It is my real name! ;D And the World's Strongest Man was won by another
Magnus
(as someone pointed out) but not Magnus Magnusson but Magnus Samuelsson.
The Icelanic's name is Magnus Vermagnusson or something.. =)

A hommage to Pug.. Hmm yes. It would be sort of nice if it was but it's not.
;D

By the way, I finished Murder in La Mut.. While it was well written (apart
from
the use of full names "all the time" ;D) it felt a bit predictable to me. I
favor more
action in fantasy novels, but I find it interesting to read an Agatha
Christie inspired
Midkemia based story too. The concept of murder mysteries is well used and
not
one of my favorite genres but it worked out decently in Murder in La Mut.
The ending was great
if a wee bit short and left me wanting to know more. Sure novels should
inspire afterthought and
a desire to read further but this ending fell short on my court! =) I need
more stuff!! More details
like Stephen King does it.. =) oh well. Ray and Joel: Thank you both for
keeping Midkemia
"breathing" and I am looking forward to the next novel to hit the shelves
out there (my shelves
especially!)

Sincerely

Magnus

>     Is Magnus your real first name, Arvidsson?  I know that in Latin it means
> great, but I had never herd of anyone using that as a real name, with the
> exception of one of the roman emperors who used it as a sort of nick name.
> Or are you just using it as a homage to Pug's soon-to-be son, as I do
> sometimes?
>
>



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Date: Sun, 30 Jun 2002 10:03:57 -0700
Subject: Re: Magnus?
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
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On Sunday, June 30, 2002, at 09:16 AM, Magnus Arvidsson wrote:

[snip]


> By the way, I finished Murder in La Mut.. While it was well written 
> (apart
> from
> the use of full names "all the time" ;D) it felt a bit predictable to 
> me. I
> favor more
> action in fantasy novels, but I find it interesting to read an Agatha
> Christie inspired
> Midkemia based story too. The concept of murder mysteries is well used 
> and
> not
> one of my favorite genres but it worked out decently in Murder in La 
> Mut.
> The ending was great
> if a wee bit short and left me wanting to know more. Sure novels should
> inspire afterthought and
> a desire to read further but this ending fell short on my court! =)

> I need
> more stuff!! More details
> like Stephen King does it.. =)

Well, Steve doesn't do murder mysteries, either.

Anyway, the problem with a book like MiLM is you make a set of choices 
at the beginning.  If you're going to turn three grubby mercenaries into 
the "world's greatest detective trio," you'd better have established 
early on that there's something about them that makes that 
"reasonable."  In our case, we decided that these were three guys who 
spent most of their lives, "making it up as they go," and as a result 
they approached the problems given to them by the Swordmaster in the 
same fashion.

Then there was the entire question of "what would you do if you had two 
or more theories that fit all the data?"

We weren't as interested in having our boys be "clever" as we were in 
having them act the way they would given the circumstances of the 
problem facing them.

There are any number of police procedure and detective stories where the 
"powers that be" are more interested in finding a solution rather than 
finding the right solution, and that's a moral dilemma we dumped on guys 
not used to dealing with moral issues.

On balance, I wish we'd have time for one more pass through the story 
because I thought of all manner of nifty things to toss in after the 
fact, but Joel and I will save those up for Murder at the Three Swords, 
which is what the next one will be titled if we can convince Harper to 
let us take another crack at this type of story.  Sales will determine 
that.


> oh well. Ray and Joel: Thank you both for
> keeping Midkemia
> "breathing" and I am looking forward to the next novel to hit the 
> shelves
> out there (my shelves
> especially!)

You're welcome.  I expected a certain amount of negative reaction to the 
story simply on the basis of it wasn't a "traditional" fantasy novel.  
But that's what Legends is about, other voices, other problems, other 
issues than were shown in the Riftwar novels themselves.

Which reminds me, I need to check in with Steve on Jimmy The Hand and 
find out when that one is going to be started.

Best, R.E.F.
>
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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From: "Magnus Arvidsson" <magnus.arvidsson75@telia.com>
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> Well, Steve doesn't do murder mysteries, either.

Nope Ray he sure doesn't write murder-mysteries, at least not in any
of the usual ways.. =)

> Anyway, the problem with a book like MiLM is you make a set of choices
> at the beginning.  If you're going to turn three grubby mercenaries into
> the "world's greatest detective trio," you'd better have established
> early on that there's something about them that makes that
> "reasonable."  In our case, we decided that these were three guys who
> spent most of their lives, "making it up as they go," and as a result
> they approached the problems given to them by the Swordmaster in the
> same fashion.

Yes, I see the good stuff here. The three mercs fit nicely as they have
different qualities
which comes to use in the novel.

> Then there was the entire question of "what would you do if you had two
> or more theories that fit all the data?"

I don't know! ;D

> We weren't as interested in having our boys be "clever" as we were in
> having them act the way they would given the circumstances of the
> problem facing them.

Ok, but one of them actually was very clever! The Hercule Poirot of
fantasy! That part when he gathers the nobles in the end bears a good
resemblance
to e.g. Murder on the Orient Express (is that the english title of the
Agatha Christie novel?).

> There are any number of police procedure and detective stories where the
> "powers that be" are more interested in finding a solution rather than
> finding the right solution, and that's a moral dilemma we dumped on guys
> not used to dealing with moral issues.

Yes, that the three boys got into waters unknown to them was a great idea!
They seemed
totally lost at points. =)

> On balance, I wish we'd have time for one more pass through the story
> because I thought of all manner of nifty things to toss in after the
> fact, but Joel and I will save those up for Murder at the Three Swords,
> which is what the next one will be titled if we can convince Harper to
> let us take another crack at this type of story.  Sales will determine
> that.

I hope you two get the chance to do another piece such as this one, but
maybe
a tad more fantasy and just a pinch less Agatha Christie! ;-) Just my point
of view though.
And no more full name usage. =) (joking)

> Which reminds me, I need to check in with Steve on Jimmy The Hand and
> find out when that one is going to be started.

Good! Great even! I need something more to read after finishing The Goblet
of Fire (Harry Potter..)
Are you doing Jimmy The Hand with Steve or on your own? I can't remember if
you told us before.

Sincerely,

Magnus



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From: Chris Vance <pikachu_chris@yahoo.com.sg>
Subject: When is R.E.F coming to Perth?
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Anybody know where and when R.E.F is going down to
Perth? Probably need my cousin to go send my books for
his autograph. Or can anybody suggest another method? 

=====
The Mindfuck

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
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Subject: Not The Traditional Fantasy Novel (Was Re: Magnus?)
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From: SonOfTheTao@aol.com
Date: Sun, 30 Jun 2002 21:43:14 EDT
Subject: Not The Traditional Fantasy Novel (Was Re: Magnus?)
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In a message dated 6/30/02 1:26:41 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
raymond@bittersea.com writes:


> You're welcome.  I expected a certain amount of negative reaction to the 
> story simply on the basis of it wasn't a "traditional" fantasy novel.  
> But that's what Legends is about, other voices, other problems, other 
> issues than were shown in the Riftwar novels themselves.
> 

    That's something I loved about Rise.  Although it's based completely 
within the realm of the reader's familiarity in both locale and characters, 
you (Ray) managed to add levels of additional character to Krondor, Midkemia 
and the way society (business) work.  It was a small story in a greater saga, 
but I loved the contrast between world-spanning villainy and lust & greed out 
on the streets of a busy city.
    Hardly what I would call a conventional/traditional fantasy.

    Mike

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Date: Sun, 30 Jun 2002 23:24:59 EDT
Subject: Re: Not The Traditional Fantasy Novel (Was Re: Magnus?)
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In a message dated 6/30/2002 11:22:58 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
SonOfTheTao@aol.com writes:


> That's something I loved about Rise.  Although it's based completely within 
> the realm of the reader's familiarity in both locale and characters, you 
> (Ray) managed to add levels of additional character to Krondor, Midkemia 
> and the way society (business) work.  It was a small story in a greater 
> saga, but I loved the contrast between world-spanning villainy and lust & 
> greed out on the streets of a busy city.
>     Hardly what I would call a conventional/traditional fantasy.
> 
>     Mike
> 

Well, traditional fantasy is usually just the "sword and sorcery" genre- 
Ray's fantasy is more realistic with lines of succesion, business, wars for 
reasons- more medieval than fantasy, IMOHO.

                                                             Peace, 
                                                                   Matt
"That Brown Patch needs a little H2O, Oh Yeah!!!"- DUFFMAN

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From: "Cameron Gurr" <gurrc@brightontown.com.au>
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Subject: Fantasy Styles (was OT : WoT)
Date: Mon, 1 Jul 2002 18:14:35 +0800
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From: "Cameron Gurr" <gurrc@brightontown.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Fantasy Styles (was OT : WoT)
Date: Mon, 1 Jul 2002 18:14:35 +0800
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All this talk about the WOT has opened up an interesting idea for me.

Are there different types of fantasy?

Without drawing on Todorov's genre theory too much, and just talking
about "Sword and Sorcery" fantasy, can the genre be broken down into
different styles?

I would call Ray's work "Heroic Fantasy", while Jordan and George RR
Martin would be "Epic Fantasy". Anne Bishop's "Dark Jewel's" trilogy
could be consider "Dark Fantasy".

Opinions? Are these labels of use, or do they just publisher's tools to
divide the genre and categorise authors according to their markets?

Cameron Gurr



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From: "Iain" <iainp@btinternet.com>
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SLIGHT SPOILER SPACE
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Last 3 paragraphs.

The wine, the dust!!!  Kethol you slow witted buffoon !!!!!!


Iain.

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On Mon, Jul 01, 2002 at 06:14:35PM +0800, Cameron Gurr wrote:
> 
> All this talk about the WOT has opened up an interesting idea for me.
> 
> Are there different types of fantasy?

Yes, of course there is.  Exactly what types there are and what differs
between them is a question there is no consensus about though.

> 
> Without drawing on Todorov's genre theory too much, and just talking
> about "Sword and Sorcery" fantasy, can the genre be broken down into
> different styles?

"Sword and Sorcery" is generally considered to be one style or
sub-genre of fantasy.  Robert E. Howard's "Conan" books and Fritz
Leiber's stories about Fafhrd and the Grey Mouser are prime examples of
this sub-genre.


> 
> I would call Ray's work "Heroic Fantasy", while Jordan and George RR
> Martin would be "Epic Fantasy". Anne Bishop's "Dark Jewel's" trilogy
> could be consider "Dark Fantasy".
> 
> Opinions? Are these labels of use, or do they just publisher's tools to
> divide the genre and categorise authors according to their markets?
> 

The labels are used by readers also when discussing the books, although
no two persons ever seem to be able to agree exactly what labels should
be used or which style a given book belongs to.

(This is similar to the way it is pretty much impossible to define the
broader labels of fantasy or science fiction in a precise manner.
No matter how you define them there are always some books that are
borderline cases, and some that people just can't agree on which genre
they belong to. 'Lord of Light' by Roger Zelazny is one example of a
book that people can't agree on if it is science fiction or fantasy.)

Labels are useful, but one shouldn't bother too much about them.
There are and will probably always be some works that are very
difficult to classify. Such works are often among the most interesting
ones precisely because they don't stick strictly to conventions.


-- 
<Insert your favourite quote here.>
Erik Trulsson
ertr1013@student.uu.se



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From: "Magnus Arvidsson" <magnus.arvidsson75@telia.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
References: <00c001c220ed$1aaa46a0$fe79a8c0@IAIN>
Subject: Re: MIL P.273
Date: Mon, 1 Jul 2002 13:36:32 +0200
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Magnus Arvidsson" <magnus.arvidsson75@telia.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: MIL P.273
Date: Mon, 1 Jul 2002 13:36:32 +0200
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?? what?? 
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: Iain 
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu 
>Sent: Monday, July 01, 2002 12:50 PM
>Subject: MIL P.273
>
>
>SLIGHT SPOILER SPACE
>.
>.
>.
>.
>.
>.
>.
>.
>.
>.
>.
>.
>.
>.
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>..
>.
>.
>.
>.
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>Last 3 paragraphs.
>
>The wine, the dust!!!  Kethol you slow witted buffoon !!!!!!
>
>
>Iain.

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From: Fred Collington <fcolling@yahoo.com>
Subject: MiLM
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Date: Mon, 1 Jul 2002 05:05:17 -0700 (PDT)
From: Fred Collington <fcolling@yahoo.com>
Subject: MiLM
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Dear Ray and Joel:

     I wanted to say I enjoyed MiLM. It was
interesting to see you two leave your 'magical
franchise' and try another genre. It was a fun read
and I enjoyed picking out Ray's stuff or Joel's work.
Some was obvious, some I'll never know if I made the
right call.


********MAJOR SPOILER BELOW********





*******You  can't say you were not warned******







But I don't know if I can ever forgive you for having
the butler do it! That just hurts! A dark and stormy
night indeed.


Cheers,
Fred

=====
Fred Collington
Oracle DBA
Naval Air Warfare Center

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com



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From: "Joel Rosenberg" <joelr@ellegon.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: MiLM
Date: Mon, 1 Jul 2002 07:59:46 -0500
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From: "Joel Rosenberg" <joelr@ellegon.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: MiLM
Date: Mon, 1 Jul 2002 07:59:46 -0500
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As to the first, many thanks.  


As to the spoiler . . . heeheehee.

-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Fred Collington
>Sent: Monday, July 01, 2002 7:05 AM
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: MiLM
>
>
>Dear Ray and Joel:
>
>     I wanted to say I enjoyed MiLM. It was
>interesting to see you two leave your 'magical
>franchise' and try another genre. It was a fun read
>and I enjoyed picking out Ray's stuff or Joel's work.
>Some was obvious, some I'll never know if I made the
>right call.
>
>
>********MAJOR SPOILER BELOW********
>
>

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Subject: Re: MIL P.273
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Iain" <iainp@btinternet.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: MIL P.273
Date: Mon, 1 Jul 2002 14:22:15 +0100
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Don't read this if you don't want to know what happens in MIL.

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Ok so I was wrong about the dust.  The butler did it ha ha !!!!


Iain.

>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: Magnus Arvidsson 
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu 
>Sent: Monday, July 01, 2002 12:36 PM
>Subject: Re: MIL P.273
>
>
>?? what?? 
>>----- Original Message ----- 
>>From: Iain 
>>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu 
>>Sent: Monday, July 01, 2002 12:50 PM
>>Subject: MIL P.273
>>
>>
>>SLIGHT SPOILER SPACE
>>.
>>.
>>.
>>.
>>.
>>.
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>>.
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>>
>>Last 3 paragraphs.
>>
>>The wine, the dust!!!  Kethol you slow witted buffoon !!!!!!
>>
>>
>>Iain.

1,,
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From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Murder i LaMut [spoiler]
In-Reply-To: <00c001c220ed$1aaa46a0$fe79a8c0@IAIN>
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Date: Mon, 1 Jul 2002 23:52:17 +1000 (GMT+1000)
From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Murder i LaMut [spoiler]
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

> SLIGHT SPOILER SPACE
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
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> .
> .
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> .
> .
> .
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> .
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> .
> .
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> .
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> .
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> .
> .
> Last 3 paragraphs.
> The wine, the dust!!!  Kethol you slow witted buffoon !!!!!!
> Iain.

heheh.

Not to sound too humble (*g*), but I picked the housecarl from the start..

I liked the book (probably better than Honoured Enemy, because it was
great to read a Riftwar book which was different in content than the
others), good work Joel and Ray.

Now to delve into "A Song for Arabonne"

Thanks
Darragh
================================================
msn: iamtheporkfireman@hotmail.com

"Believe or die - thank you O lord for all those
 options" - Bill Hicks.
================================================



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Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2002 00:25:58 +1000 (GMT+1000)
From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Murder in LaMut [spoiler]
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

> > SLIGHT SPOILER SPACE
> > .
> > .
> > .
> > .
> > .
> > .
> > .
> > .
> > .
> > .
> > .
> > .
> > .
> > .
> > .
> > ..
> > .
> > .
> > .
> > .
> > .
> > .
> > .
> > .
> > .
> > .
> > .
> > .
> > .
> > .
> > .

"They have slain the Earl of Murray/And the Lady Mondegreen."

http://www.brightweavings.com/ggkswords/mondegreens.htm

Was the 'apparent' story about a young lady slain before her time, partly
inspire the characters/story of MiLM?

Thanks
Darragh
================================================
msn: iamtheporkfireman@hotmail.com

"Believe or die - thank you O lord for all those
 options" - Bill Hicks.
================================================



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Subject: Re: Fantasy Styles (was OT : WoT)
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 1 Jul 2002 08:45:38 -0700
Subject: Re: Fantasy Styles (was OT : WoT)
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On Monday, July 1, 2002, at 03:14 AM, Cameron Gurr wrote:

>
> All this talk about the WOT has opened up an interesting idea for me.
>
> Are there different types of fantasy?
>
> Without drawing on Todorov's genre theory too much, and just talking
> about "Sword and Sorcery" fantasy, can the genre be broken down into
> different styles?
>
> I would call Ray's work "Heroic Fantasy", while Jordan and George RR
> Martin would be "Epic Fantasy". Anne Bishop's "Dark Jewel's" trilogy
> could be consider "Dark Fantasy".
>
> Opinions? Are these labels of use, or do they just publisher's tools to
> divide the genre and categorise authors according to their markets?
>
> Cameron Gurr
>
>
>
>

First of all, there are two ways to break down books: genre and 
category.  "Fantasy" is a category, or really, it's Science 
Fiction/Fantasy, because that's where publishers and booksellers put 
it.  It used to be Science Fiction/Fantasy/Horror until Stephen King, 
who created the Horror category all by his lonesome, so now you can go 
into a store and see "Horror" which is bookseller code for "Stephen King 
and everyone like him."

It  remains to be seen if the Harry Potter phenomena does that for 
fantasy; I rather doubt it, as fantasy already dominates the SF/F 
section.

Then there's genre.

Science fiction and horror are sub-genres of fantasy.  Fantasy is that 
which involves the fantastic.  Science fiction is that sub-set of 
fantasy that involves the plausible (relative to known science) but it's 
still fantastic.  Obviously some SF just is fantasy in disguise, witness 
galaxy spanning empires and other stuff that George Lucas pays homage to.

Within literary fantasy there are lables, and your mileage may vary.  
Tolkein is often referred to as "epic," which is a misuse of the word.  
An Epic is any long narrative which reflects the world view and cultural 
identity of the people who spanned it, i.e. the Epic of Gilgamesh, the 
Illiad, the Odyssey, the Song of Roland (from the Matter of France, i.e. 
the legends of Charlemane), the Matter of Britain (the Arthurian 
legends),  The Mabanogian, the Matter of the Classics (the ancient Greek 
legends), Orlando Furiouso & Orlando Amorata by Orosco, etc.

In modern parlance, "epic" has come to mean "big," as in  "Cecile B. 
DeMille's Epic Film, The Ten Commandments."  Which actually has a better 
claim to the word Epic as it can be argued the legend of Moses is 
central to the Jewish culture, while Tolkein was making it up as he 
went, for his own purposes.

So, from where I sit.

Tolkein wrote "High Fantasy," that which ascribes to be lofty and 
recapture a sense of the grandeur of the true epics.

The rest of us write a mix.  The Riftwar is some high fantasy, some 
sword and sorcery, and I like to think of it as "adventure fantasy."

Karl Edgar Wagner, for example, wrote straight ahead sword and sorcery, 
with the obvious influences of R.E. Howard shown along the way.

Dark fantasy is "not quite horror," from where I sit, and few people 
really do it.  Often what folks look at as dark fantasy is really very 
atmospheric sword & sorcery, more R.E. Howard that H.P. Lovecraft.  
Faerie Tale was my attempt at Dark Fantasy.  Most modern vampire novels 
in the Anne Rice tradition are dark fantasy as opposed to the horror of 
guys like Bram Stoker, Brian Stableforth, and Fred Saberhagen.

So, have fun with the lable game, but realize it's all just stories, and 
don't get too caught up in it.

Best, R.E.F>
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Date: Mon, 1 Jul 2002 08:48:40 -0700
Subject: Re: When is R.E.F coming to Perth?
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 1 Jul 2002 08:48:40 -0700
Subject: Re: When is R.E.F coming to Perth?
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Sunday, June 30, 2002, at 06:29 PM, Chris Vance wrote:

> Anybody know where and when R.E.F is going down to
> Perth? Probably need my cousin to go send my books for
> his autograph. Or can anybody suggest another method?
>
> =====
> The Mindfuck
>
>

Looks like I'm arriving the just after midnight  of the 15th of 
September, and doing stuff on the 15th and 16th before flying on to 
Adelaid.

A personal note: I find your signature pretty offensive given there are 
youngsters who subscribe to this list.  Consider changing it, please.  
It's not terribly cute or original.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Subject: Re: MiLM
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 1 Jul 2002 08:51:43 -0700
Subject: Re: MiLM
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On Monday, July 1, 2002, at 05:05 AM, Fred Collington wrote:

> Dear Ray and Joel:
>
>      I wanted to say I enjoyed MiLM. It was
> interesting to see you two leave your 'magical
> franchise' and try another genre. It was a fun read
> and I enjoyed picking out Ray's stuff or Joel's work.
> Some was obvious, some I'll never know if I made the
> right call.
>
>
> ********MAJOR SPOILER BELOW********
>
>
>
>
>
> *******You  can't say you were not warned******
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> But I don't know if I can ever forgive you for having
> the butler do it! That just hurts! A dark and stormy
> night indeed.
>
>
> Cheers,
> Fred
>

Well, if you're going to start a "new" type of storying telling in my 
fantasy world, and tell the "first" detective story, then you might as 
well have the obvious culprit do it.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Date: Mon, 1 Jul 2002 08:50:26 -0700
Subject: Re: Murder in LaMut [spoiler]
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 1 Jul 2002 08:50:26 -0700
Subject: Re: Murder in LaMut [spoiler]
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
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On Monday, July 1, 2002, at 07:25 AM, Darragh Murray wrote:

>>> SLIGHT SPOILER SPACE
>>> .
>>> .
>>> .
>>> .
>>> .
>>> .
>>> .
>>> .
>>> .
>>> .
>>> .
>>> .
>>> .
>>> .
>>> .
>>> ..
>>> .
>>> .
>>> .
>>> .
>>> .
>>> .
>>> .
>>> .
>>> .
>>> .
>>> .
>>> .
>>> .
>>> .
>>> .
>
> "They have slain the Earl of Murray/And the Lady Mondegreen."
>
> http://www.brightweavings.com/ggkswords/mondegreens.htm
>
> Was the 'apparent' story about a young lady slain before her time, 
> partly
> inspire the characters/story of MiLM?
>

That's one for Joel, as he named her.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Subject: Re: Fantasy Styles (was OT : WoT)
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 1 Jul 2002 09:16:26 -0700 (PDT)
From: Chris Vance <pikachu_chris@yahoo.com.sg>
Subject: Re: Fantasy Styles (was OT : WoT)
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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I personally think that Ray's work is "Epic fantasy".
"Heroic Fantasy" would usually centre around a
solitary figure such as Sir A. C. Doyle's "Conan"

But yes I think it's are publisher's categorization
rather than an actual genre. Think about it. Real
readers don't really care. SF is SF and Fantasy is
still Fantasy. Why do we have to sub categorize?

I'm just a layman enjoying a good book. Please correct
me if I'm wrong.

C.I.A
--- Cameron Gurr <gurrc@brightontown.com.au> wrote:
> 
> All this talk about the WOT has opened up an
> interesting idea for me.
> 
> Are there different types of fantasy?
> 
> Without drawing on Todorov's genre theory too much,
> and just talking
> about "Sword and Sorcery" fantasy, can the genre be
> broken down into
> different styles?
> 
> I would call Ray's work "Heroic Fantasy", while
> Jordan and George RR
> Martin would be "Epic Fantasy". Anne Bishop's "Dark
> Jewel's" trilogy
> could be consider "Dark Fantasy".
> 
> Opinions? Are these labels of use, or do they just
> publisher's tools to
> divide the genre and categorise authors according to
> their markets?
> 
> Cameron Gurr
> 


=====
The Mindfuck

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com



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From: "Joel Rosenberg" <joelr@ellegon.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Murder in LaMut [spoiler]
Date: Mon, 1 Jul 2002 11:19:50 -0500
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Joel Rosenberg" <joelr@ellegon.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Murder in LaMut [spoiler]
Date: Mon, 1 Jul 2002 11:19:50 -0500
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Short answer:  yup.

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Darragh Murray
Sent: Monday, July 01, 2002 9:26 AM
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Murder in LaMut [spoiler]


> > SLIGHT SPOILER SPACE
> > .
> > .
> > .
> > .
> > .
> > .
> > .
> > .
> > .
> > .
> > .
> > .
> > .
> > .
> > .
> > ..
> > .
> > .
> > .
> > .
> > .
> > .
> > .
> > .
> > .
> > .
> > .
> > .
> > .
> > .
> > .

"They have slain the Earl of Murray/And the Lady Mondegreen."

http://www.brightweavings.com/ggkswords/mondegreens.htm

Was the 'apparent' story about a young lady slain before her time, partly
inspire the characters/story of MiLM?

Thanks
Darragh
================================================
msn: iamtheporkfireman@hotmail.com

"Believe or die - thank you O lord for all those
 options" - Bill Hicks.
================================================



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From: Chris Vance <pikachu_chris@yahoo.com.sg>
Subject: Re: When is R.E.F coming to Perth?
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 1 Jul 2002 09:21:42 -0700 (PDT)
From: Chris Vance <pikachu_chris@yahoo.com.sg>
Subject: Re: When is R.E.F coming to Perth?
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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--- Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com> wrote:
> 
> On Sunday, June 30, 2002, at 06:29 PM, Chris Vance
> wrote:
> 
> > Anybody know where and when R.E.F is going down to
> > Perth? Probably need my cousin to go send my books
> for
> > his autograph. Or can anybody suggest another
> method?
> >
> > =====
> > The Mindfuck
> >
> >
> 
> Looks like I'm arriving the just after midnight  of
> the 15th of 
> September, and doing stuff on the 15th and 16th
> before flying on to 
> Adelaid.
> 
> A personal note: I find your signature pretty
> offensive given there are 
> youngsters who subscribe to this list.  Consider
> changing it, please.  
> It's not terribly cute or original.
> 
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
> 
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be
> explained away by 
> stupidity.
> 
Yups..

Changed the Signature...

Totally forgot it was there....

Sorry for the offence people.....

C.I.A

=====
The Brainless

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com



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From: "Magnus Arvidsson" <magnus.arvidsson75@telia.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
References: <KDEEKBJOIPMHHKLLHFBIAEANCDAA.joelr@ellegon.com>
Subject: Re: Murder in LaMut [spoiler]
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Magnus Arvidsson" <magnus.arvidsson75@telia.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Murder in LaMut [spoiler]
Date: Mon, 1 Jul 2002 19:03:14 +0200
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

"Ya fooled me Skinner" (Groundskeeper Willie)
Hehe not very original eh?! But old sources are often useful and
the "old" names fits the fantasy genre quite nicely... Morray (a slight
change in that name u-o)
and Mondegreen.. =) Mondegreen just begs to become a fantasy character.. =)
As long as people don't start using Oberon, Theseus, Odysseus or any of the
other
Greek/Roman legendary names and squeeze them into a fantasynovel I'm happy..
If those names are used together with the proper ORIGINAL character in a
fantasy
novel, that would be ok for me too.. =) No blatant obvious name thieving!
Not from
famous literary characters anyway! =) Looks and sounds incredibly lazy!
Morray and Mondegreen
works for me though! Thank you both for not naming them Tristan and Isolde
or Pyramus and Thisbe.. =)

Sincerely

Magnus

> Short answer:  yup.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Darragh Murray
> Sent: Monday, July 01, 2002 9:26 AM
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Subject: Re: Murder in LaMut [spoiler]
>
>
> > > SLIGHT SPOILER SPACE
> > > .
> > > .
> > > .
> > > .
> > > .
> > > .
> > > .
> > > .
> > > .
> > > .
> > > .
> > > .
> > > .
> > > .
> > > .
> > > ..
> > > .
> > > .
> > > .
> > > .
> > > .
> > > .
> > > .
> > > .
> > > .
> > > .
> > > .
> > > .
> > > .
> > > .
> > > .
>
> "They have slain the Earl of Murray/And the Lady Mondegreen."
>
> http://www.brightweavings.com/ggkswords/mondegreens.htm
>
> Was the 'apparent' story about a young lady slain before her time, partly
> inspire the characters/story of MiLM?
>
> Thanks
> Darragh
> ================================================
> msn: iamtheporkfireman@hotmail.com
>
> "Believe or die - thank you O lord for all those
>  options" - Bill Hicks.
> ================================================
>
>



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From: "Michael Gibson" <mike@gibbyco.freeserve.co.uk>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Types of Story
Date: Mon, 1 Jul 2002 22:19:36 +0100
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*** EOOH ***
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: "Michael Gibson" <mike@gibbyco.freeserve.co.uk>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Types of Story
Date: Mon, 1 Jul 2002 22:19:36 +0100
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

This a more a general question than a strictly fantasy related one, but I was
interested hear people's views on the different types on story.

Although the distinctions are somewhat hazy, and arbitrary to a point, I've come
across a number of such "scales" - for example one which considers there to be 7
(rather wide) categories, e.g. Romance, Mystery, etc. (IIRC).  And I believe
Louis L'Amour divided the spectrum into thirty odd categories.

What "spectrums" have people come across, and what do you think of them?

Mike,
Gibfish of the West

"I hate odd weeks, and don't get me started on Tuesdays..."



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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Murder in La Mut - - - - SPOILER
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*** EOOH ***
From: coweater@alphalink.com.au
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Murder in La Mut - - - - SPOILER
Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2002 09:42:12 +1000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

First off I'd like to tip my hat to Joel and Ray. Over the last few weeks 
I have been working interstate 12 - 16 hour days, every night when I got 
back to my hotel room I still found the energy to sit down with the book 
for a couple of hours due to the fact it was a very enjoyable read, a 
welcomed changed. I also found the humour very much to my liking, openly 
chuckling at several points while on the plane home and receiving sideways 
looks from my fellow passengers.

Joel, thank you very much for your 3 great characters you brought to Ray's 
world along with your particular writing style. I have since purchased 
several of your books, with more on back order and am enjoying them.

I also hope Ray's comment about another book, Murder at the Three Swords 
happens one day down the track.


Now for a couple of questions and comments, possible spoilers
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*

When recommending the book to a friend I used one particular scene to 
encapsulate the 3 central characters, and the style of the book. When 
Durine knocks out the largest of three regulars, carries him to the mud 
room and proceeds to remove 2 coins from his purse stating that he doesn't 
fight for free! I was in complete fits of laughter and had to stop reading 
for several minutes to compose myself, it was funny but I have no idea as 
to my reaction :)

The butler....... your both very very cruel, was it something you both 
laughed about for days after coming up with the ending? Or just decided 
that the first Murder novel needed to have a clichéd ending?

There was quite a few puns (I thought) directed towards the Murder Mystery 
genre, was this intended? such as the opening line "It was a dark and 
stormy night" and of course the ending, but throughout the book I felt the 
both of you were having a little bit of fun with us (readers) or am I 
simply reading into things, seeing clues where there are none?........ 
What was that Watson?

Cheers,

Brad

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Cameron Gurr wrote:
> All this talk about the WOT has opened up an interesting idea for me.
> 
> Are there different types of fantasy?
> 
> Without drawing on Todorov's genre theory too much, and just talking
> about "Sword and Sorcery" fantasy, can the genre be broken down into
> different styles?
> 
> I would call Ray's work "Heroic Fantasy", while Jordan and George RR
> Martin would be "Epic Fantasy". Anne Bishop's "Dark Jewel's" trilogy
> could be consider "Dark Fantasy".
> 
> Opinions? Are these labels of use, or do they just publisher's tools to
> divide the genre and categorise authors according to their markets?

Varies according to taste.  Some folks like to categorize *everything,* 
and some of those get really upset if things don't fit into their 
pigeonholes.  Others are less label-oriented.

I like to define "fantasy" as fictio with magic, or magical effects that 
propel the story, so that Star Trek and Star Wars qualify as fantasy, 
albeit science fantasy, while more 'traditional' fantasies, such as 
Tolkien and Feist are more 'standard'.  SOme stuff, though, defies 
pigeonholing.

cd
-- 
Death to all Absolutists!



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Subject: RE: Fantasy Styles (was OT : WoT)
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Cameron Gurr" <gurrc@brightontown.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Fantasy Styles (was OT : WoT)
Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2002 16:04:02 +0800
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>Cameron Gurr wrote:
>> All this talk about the WOT has opened up an interesting idea for me.
>> 
>> Are there different types of fantasy?
>
>Varies according to taste.  Some folks like to categorize *everything,* 
>and some of those get really upset if things don't fit into their 
>pigeonholes.  Others are less label-oriented.
>
>I like to define "fantasy" as fictio with magic, or magical effects that
>
>propel the story, so that Star Trek and Star Wars qualify as fantasy, 
>albeit science fantasy, while more 'traditional' fantasies, such as 
>Tolkien and Feist are more 'standard'.  SOme stuff, though, defies 
>pigeonholing.
>
>cd
>-- 
>Death to all Absolutists!
>

This is pretty much what I was talking about. Everyone seems to have an
idea of what styles of fantasy there are. When I said heroic fantasy, I
think that equates to Ray's "adventure fantasy". Very much action based,
strong and fast moving plots with central, heroic (to a degree),
characters. I.e. Arutha, Nicholas, even Pirojil et al to a degree.

Carl mentions here that Star Trek is Science Fantasy. I don't know if he
didn't notice himself further defining the genre.

When Ray said that Fantasy is a style of a genre (that's almost
definitely a mis-quote, please feel free to correct me) it felt semantic
(no offence to REF intended, this is just my opinion). I feel (consider
"I" to be underlined and in italics) that science fiction is a genre,
and fantasy a sub-genre. If you step down a level, for the sake of
argument, that would make fantasy the core genre, with further
sub-genres (being heroic, epic, adventure etc).

While linguistically the word epic does refer to the tales REF
mentioned, (you can forget about me repeating them) I consider that
language is a dynamic medium, which means if in general a word takes on
a new, accepted, meaning, that new meaning has some value. While epics
are still those tales Ray mentioned, I think a story like the WoT can
also lay claim to the title, if simply because of the scope of the tale.
You can think of this as a bastardised use of the word. IMO Jordan is
approaching this story as if nothing is too hard, or too complex. This
is what life is like. The story is governing itself, and he is placing
no restrictions on where it can go.

Disagree if you like. I won't be offended. Just as I do not mean to
offend anyone on the list. It's just a discussion.

Cameron, The Devil's Advocate.



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From: Chris Vance <pikachu_chris@yahoo.com.sg>
Subject: Which is the real 1st edition
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2002 08:25:17 -0700 (PDT)
From: Chris Vance <pikachu_chris@yahoo.com.sg>
Subject: Which is the real 1st edition
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Dear all,

I have a problem that I hope someone could enlighten
me on. Lately it's become a hobby of mine to collect
all the 1st editions of Ray's work. However, I can't
seem to find a good source of reference. 

For example, Tear of the Gods is listed as being
published by Morrow,William & Co on February 2001 on B
and N but Amazon lists it as HarperCollins; ISBN:
0380978008; March 6, 2001. I have the HarperCollins
Voyager version.

So which is the 1st edition??

=====
The Brainless

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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2002 09:20:39 -0700
Subject: Re: Which is the real 1st edition
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On Tuesday, July 2, 2002, at 08:25 AM, Chris Vance wrote:

> Dear all,
>
> I have a problem that I hope someone could enlighten
> me on. Lately it's become a hobby of mine to collect
> all the 1st editions of Ray's work. However, I can't
> seem to find a good source of reference.
>
> For example, Tear of the Gods is listed as being
> published by Morrow,William & Co on February 2001 on B
> and N but Amazon lists it as HarperCollins; ISBN:
> 0380978008; March 6, 2001. I have the HarperCollins
> Voyager version.
>
> So which is the 1st edition??
>
>

There's only one edition.  Morrow is a division of HarperCollins,and I 
signed my original deal with Morrow/Avon when they were owned by Hearst 
Publishing.  Hearst sold them to HarperCollins, and Avon/EOS and 
Harper/Prism merged.  So it's a bookkeeping thing.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2002 10:53:25 -0700 (PDT)
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From: Joshua Stanton <jasharkalain@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: Fantasy Styles (was OT : WoT)
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2002 10:53:25 -0700 (PDT)
From: Joshua Stanton <jasharkalain@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: Fantasy Styles (was OT : WoT)
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I personally have to major catagories, which I use to
qualify ever book I read.  1) Books I like.  2) Books
I don't like.

Joshua. 

--- Cameron Gurr <gurrc@brightontown.com.au> wrote:
> 
> 
>  
> Cameron Gurr wrote:
> > All this talk about the WOT has opened up an
> interesting idea for me.
> > 
> > Are there different types of fantasy?
> 
> Varies according to taste.  Some folks like to
> categorize *everything,* 
> and some of those get really upset if things don't
> fit into their 
> pigeonholes.  Others are less label-oriented.
> 
> I like to define "fantasy" as fictio with magic, or
> magical effects that
> 
> propel the story, so that Star Trek and Star Wars
> qualify as fantasy, 
> albeit science fantasy, while more 'traditional'
>          , such as 
> Tolkien and Feist are more 'standard'.  SOme stuff,
> though, defies 
> pigeonholing.
> 
> cd
> -- 
>       to all Absolutists!
> 
> 
> This is pretty much what I was talking about.
> Everyone seems to have an
> idea of what styles of fantasy there are. When I
> said heroic fantasy, I
> think that equates to Ray's "adventure fantasy".
> Very much action based,
> strong and fast moving plots with central, heroic
> (to a degree),
> characters. I.e. Arutha, Nicholas, even Pirojil et
> al to a degree.
> 
> Carl mentions here that Star Trek is Science
> Fantasy. I don't know if he
> didn't notice himself further defining the genre.
> 
> When Ray said that Fantasy is a style of a genre
> (that's almost
> definitely a mis-quote, please feel free to correct
> me) it felt semantic
> (no offence to REF intended, this is just my
> opinion). I feel (consider
> "I" to be underlined and in italics) that science
> fiction is a genre,
> and fantasy a sub-genre. If you step down a level,
> for the sake of
> argument, that would make fantasy the core genre,
> with further
> sub-genres (being heroic, epic, adventure etc).
> 
> While linguistically the word epic does refer to the
> tales REF
> mentioned, (you can forget about me repeating them)
> I consider that
> language is a dynamic medium, which means if in
> general a word takes on
> a new, accepted, meaning, that new meaning has some
> value. While epics
> are still those tales Ray mentioned, I think a story
> like the WoT can
> also lay claim to the title, if simply because of
> the scope of the tale.
> You can think of this as a        ised use of the
> word. IMO Jordan is
> approaching this story as if nothing is too hard, or
> too complex. This
> is what life is like. The story is governing itself,
> and he is placing
> no restrictions on where it can go.
> 
> Disagree if you like. I won't be offended. Just as I
> do not mean to
> offend anyone on the list. It's just a discussion.
> 
> Cameron, The      's Advocate.
> 


__________________________________________________
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Sign up for SBC Yahoo! Dial - First Month Free
http://sbc.yahoo.com



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From: Chris Vance <pikachu_chris@yahoo.com.sg>
Subject: Re: Which is the real 1st edition
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From: Chris Vance <pikachu_chris@yahoo.com.sg>
Subject: Re: Which is the real 1st edition
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--- Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com> wrote:
> 
> On Tuesday, July 2, 2002, at 08:25 AM, Chris Vance
> wrote:
> 
> > Dear all,
> >
> > I have a problem that I hope someone could
> enlighten
> > me on. Lately it's become a hobby of mine to
> collect
> > all the 1st editions of Ray's work. However, I
> can't
> > seem to find a good source of reference.
> >
> > For example, Tear of the Gods is listed as being
> > published by Morrow,William & Co on February 2001
> on B
> > and N but Amazon lists it as HarperCollins; ISBN:
> > 0380978008; March 6, 2001. I have the
> HarperCollins
> > Voyager version.
> >
> > So which is the 1st edition??
> >
> >
> 
> There's only one edition.  Morrow is a division of
> HarperCollins,and I 
> signed my original deal with Morrow/Avon when they
> were owned by Hearst 
> Publishing.  Hearst sold them to HarperCollins, and
> Avon/EOS and 
> Harper/Prism merged.  So it's a bookkeeping thing.
> 
> Best, R.E.F.


Thanks. But why are there 2 different book jackets??
The one on amazon is black and silver and the copy I
own is in colour.
> ----
> 
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be
> explained away by 
> stupidity.
> 


=====
The Brainless

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Subject: Re: Which is the real 1st edition
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Magnus Arvidsson" <magnus.arvidsson75@telia.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Which is the real 1st edition
Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 02:09:19 +0200
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[Snip]

Two different publishers, two different choices of what cover to use?
One publisher in Europe (Harper) and one in the States? The US versions
almost always differ from the European versions. In some cases the cover-art
is the same but in many other the cover-art differs..

Sincerely,
Magnus

> Thanks. But why are there 2 different book jackets??
> The one on amazon is black and silver and the copy I
> own is in colour.
> > ----
> >
> > Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be
> > explained away by
> > stupidity.
> >
>
>
> =====
> The Brainless




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From: "Magnus Arvidsson" <magnus.arvidsson75@telia.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
References: <KDEEKBJOIPMHHKLLHFBIAEANCDAA.joelr@ellegon.com>
Subject: Some thoughts on reading
Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 02:21:58 +0200
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From: "Magnus Arvidsson" <magnus.arvidsson75@telia.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Some thoughts on reading
Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 02:21:58 +0200
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Hi all listers. I just thought about why I read and re-read some novels,
why I read some novels over and over without getting tired of them.
My thought is that it's the feeling I get when reading the novel that makes
me go back to read it again. A novel can be well written but lack that
special
ingredient that makes me feel the "feeling" of the novel. Magician is one
novel
that has a loadful of "feeling" and since I have read it 10+ times I'm not
reading it
to find out new things or to get to know new people. I read it because the
feeling I get
when reading it compells me to come back for more. I would say that it's
that talent,
the talent to wrap your words in feelings, that makes a great writer. Ray
has written
plenty of novels now that I keep coming back to just because they have that
special "feeling"
and I thank you Ray for that! J.K Rowling has succeeded to infuse her Potter
novels with
the same kind of "feeling" as I feel severely compelled to return to her
novels the moment I
have finished reading one. The reason to why I write this mail is that I
wanted to share and discuss
a little with you all here if this "feeling" is something you also
experience, if what I have said so far makes
any sense... This is the core of reading. The reason why I keep doing it.
Some of Rays novels might
have less of the "feeling" but so far the majority of them does have it. =)

Novels that have the "feeling" tends (for me at least) to be "easy readers"
and while they give me lots
of feelings and thoughts they aren't taxing, hard or stubborn to read. The
heavy classics e.g Crime and
Punishment, War and Peace... are both givers and takers. Those are books
with the "feeling" but since I find them
intellectually exhausting to read (a reader's marathon) the "feeling" is out
weighed by the effort it takes to come through
in one piece. =) That's probably why I haven't returned to any of those
books. I haven't even thought about it.

The "feeling" might be proof that you cannot learn how to become a great
author. Stephen King said as much in
his "On Writing" that one could train him or herself to become a good writer
but if that person didn't have "that something"
he or she would never become a great writer. The ability to, while writing,
wrap a story in a second and sometimes even
a third layer containing feelings, atmosphere, aromas, smells, tastes and
more and doing so successfully... I don't think that can
ever be taught or learned. That must come from inside the eprson doing the
writing. If you are unable to learn
how to write this "feeling" into your work it might come all by itself or it
will never come. If it never comes one could always write
manuals for a large electronics company.. =) Well, I'm rambling on a little
but I figured that this list might be a good place to
air it in. After all we do have two full time "feeling-autors" here don't
we?! I haven't read any of Joel's own novels yet though so
correct me if I'm wrong when I call him a "feeling-author". ;D

Please give your thoughts on this if you ave any. In case of flames send
them off-list.

That was all for now.

Sincerely,

Magnus



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I agree on that "feeling" thing in a novel that makes me come back to
it. Guy Gavriel Kay is about the same for me, as the characters are so
much wrapped that I'm feeling a sense of loss when finishing his
novels.

This said, I would resume my thoughts by saying that IMO the success
of a book for a reader is simply a matter of what is going through the
reader's head while reading. That is why some books will appeal more
to some ppl than others. I have a friend who would choose a Gemmel's
book over Feist's, because he prefers an action-packed novel over one
where characters are richly devellopped. While I like those Gemmel
books, I would never read them ten times, because characters are
inexistant. I prefer going back to Pug and Borric and Carline and
Thomas and....etc.

Paddyjack


--

On Wed, 3 Jul 2002 02:21:58   
 Magnus Arvidsson wrote:
>Hi all listers. I just thought about why I read and re-read some novels,
>why I read some novels over and over without getting tired of them.
>My thought is that it's the feeling I get when reading the novel that makes
>me go back to read it again. A novel can be well written but lack that
>special
>ingredient that makes me feel the "feeling" of the novel. Magician is one
>novel
>that has a loadful of "feeling" and since I have read it 10+ times I'm not
>reading it
>to find out new things or to get to know new people. I read it because the
>feeling I get
>when reading it compells me to come back for more. I would say that it's
>that talent,
>the talent to wrap your words in feelings, that makes a great writer. Ray
>has written
>plenty of novels now that I keep coming back to just because they have that
>special "feeling"
>and I thank you Ray for that! J.K Rowling has succeeded to infuse her Potter
>novels with
>the same kind of "feeling" as I feel severely compelled to return to her
>novels the moment I
>have finished reading one. The reason to why I write this mail is that I
>wanted to share and discuss
>a little with you all here if this "feeling" is something you also
>experience, if what I have said so far makes
>any sense... This is the core of reading. The reason why I keep doing it.
>Some of Rays novels might
>have less of the "feeling" but so far the majority of them does have it. =)
>
>Novels that have the "feeling" tends (for me at least) to be "easy readers"
>and while they give me lots
>of feelings and thoughts they aren't taxing, hard or stubborn to read. The
>heavy classics e.g Crime and
>Punishment, War and Peace... are both givers and takers. Those are books
>with the "feeling" but since I find them
>intellectually exhausting to read (a reader's marathon) the "feeling" is out
>weighed by the effort it takes to come through
>in one piece. =) That's probably why I haven't returned to any of those
>books. I haven't even thought about it.
>
>The "feeling" might be proof that you cannot learn how to become a great
>author. Stephen King said as much in
>his "On Writing" that one could train him or herself to become a good writer
>but if that person didn't have "that something"
>he or she would never become a great writer. The ability to, while writing,
>wrap a story in a second and sometimes even
>a third layer containing feelings, atmosphere, aromas, smells, tastes and
>more and doing so successfully... I don't think that can
>ever be taught or learned. That must come from inside the eprson doing the
>writing. If you are unable to learn
>how to write this "feeling" into your work it might come all by itself or it
>will never come. If it never comes one could always write
>manuals for a large electronics company.. =) Well, I'm rambling on a little
>but I figured that this list might be a good place to
>air it in. After all we do have two full time "feeling-autors" here don't
>we?! I haven't read any of Joel's own novels yet though so
>correct me if I'm wrong when I call him a "feeling-author". ;D
>
>Please give your thoughts on this if you ave any. In case of flames send
>them off-list.
>
>That was all for now.
>
>Sincerely,
>
>Magnus
>
>


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From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Which is the real 1st edition
In-Reply-To: <A5AE33FC-8DD7-11D6-BE6B-003065A8A644@bittersea.com>
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Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 12:04:36 +1000 (GMT+1000)
From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Which is the real 1st edition
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Look at the publishing information and there should be a line of numbers
about half way down the page, and if there is a 1 in it, it means its a
first..

(at least I hope so, I think John Bunting told me that a while back)


> > Dear all,
> >
> > I have a problem that I hope someone could enlighten
> > me on. Lately it's become a hobby of mine to collect
> > all the 1st editions of Ray's work. However, I can't
> > seem to find a good source of reference.
> >
> > For example, Tear of the Gods is listed as being
> > published by Morrow,William & Co on February 2001 on B
> > and N but Amazon lists it as HarperCollins; ISBN:
> > 0380978008; March 6, 2001. I have the HarperCollins
> > Voyager version.
> >
> > So which is the 1st edition??
> >
> >
>
> There's only one edition.  Morrow is a division of HarperCollins,and I
> signed my original deal with Morrow/Avon when they were owned by Hearst
> Publishing.  Hearst sold them to HarperCollins, and Avon/EOS and
> Harper/Prism merged.  So it's a bookkeeping thing.
>
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
>
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
> stupidity.
>
>

Thanks
Darragh
================================================
msn: iamtheporkfireman@hotmail.com

"Believe or die - thank you O lord for all those
 options" - Bill Hicks.
================================================



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Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2002 22:46:17 -0700 (PDT)
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From: Chris Vance <pikachu_chris@yahoo.com.sg>
Subject: Re: Which is the real 1st edition
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2002 22:46:17 -0700 (PDT)
From: Chris Vance <pikachu_chris@yahoo.com.sg>
Subject: Re: Which is the real 1st edition
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Arggh!!! Looks like I got to fork out more dough....
It just seems that my collection is incomplete....
Know what I mean? 

Worse still is that I only get the UK version in
Singapore. Any good samaritans out there in the States
who want to help me get my missing books??

C.I.A


--- Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au> wrote:
> 
> Look at the publishing information and there should
> be a line of numbers
> about half way down the page, and if there is a 1 in
> it, it means its a
> first..
> 
> (at least I hope so, I think John Bunting told me
> that a while back)
> 
> 
> > > Dear all,
> > >
> > > I have a problem that I hope someone could
> enlighten
> > > me on. Lately it's become a hobby of mine to
> collect
> > > all the 1st editions of Ray's work. However, I
> can't
> > > seem to find a good source of reference.
> > >
> > > For example, Tear of the Gods is listed as being
> > > published by Morrow,William & Co on February
> 2001 on B
> > > and N but Amazon lists it as HarperCollins;
> ISBN:
> > > 0380978008; March 6, 2001. I have the
> HarperCollins
> > > Voyager version.
> > >
> > > So which is the 1st edition??
> > >
> > >
> >
> > There's only one edition.  Morrow is a division of
> HarperCollins,and I
> > signed my original deal with Morrow/Avon when they
> were owned by Hearst
> > Publishing.  Hearst sold them to HarperCollins,
> and Avon/EOS and
> > Harper/Prism merged.  So it's a bookkeeping thing.
> >
> > Best, R.E.F.
> > ----
> >
> > Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily
> be explained away by
> > stupidity.
> >
> >
> 
> Thanks
> Darragh
> ================================================
> msn: iamtheporkfireman@hotmail.com
> 
> "Believe or die - thank you O lord for all those
>  options" - Bill Hicks.
> ================================================
> 


=====
The Brainless

__________________________________________________
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Sign up for SBC Yahoo! Dial - First Month Free
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Subject: Re: Which is the real 1st edition
Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 08:28:35 +0200
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From: "Henrik Grotle" <henrik@arasoft.no>
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Subject: Re: Which is the real 1st edition
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Chris Vance said:
> Arggh!!! Looks like I got to fork out more dough....
> It just seems that my collection is incomplete....
> Know what I mean?

I think you are going to fork out a lot of dough if you want all the first
editions, unless you have the first edition of Magician that is. If you do
then I have only one thing to say: you lucky pig! <g>

Henrik



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Subject: Re: Which is the real 1st edition
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Andrew Scott" <a.sc0tt@attbi.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Which is the real 1st edition
Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 01:39:27 -0700
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

> Chris Vance said:
> > Arggh!!! Looks like I got to fork out more dough....
> > It just seems that my collection is incomplete....
> > Know what I mean?
>
> I think you are going to fork out a lot of dough if you want all the first
> editions, unless you have the first edition of Magician that is. If you do
> then I have only one thing to say: you lucky pig! <g>
>
> Henrik
>
Funny thing is my local library has the US first edition hardback in general
circulation. I wonder if i could get em to sell it cheap...

--Andrew



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From: Fred Collington <fcolling@yahoo.com>
Subject: Swashbuckling fantasy
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 05:30:45 -0700 (PDT)
From: Fred Collington <fcolling@yahoo.com>
Subject: Swashbuckling fantasy
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

In reading the recent posts about types of fantasy, I
realized that I catgorized much of Ray and Joel's work
as swashbuckling fantasy. It's a term I've heard since
I was a lad. 

So my question is: What is a swash, and why does it
have to be buckled? Perhaps if you can answer the
first part, the second part will be obvious?

Cheers,
Fred

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Subject: Re: Which is the real 1st edition
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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Andrew Scott" <a.sc0tt@attbi.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, July 03, 2002 6:39 PM
Subject: Re: Which is the real 1st edition


> > Chris Vance said:
> > > Arggh!!! Looks like I got to fork out more dough....
> > > It just seems that my collection is incomplete....
> > > Know what I mean?
> >
> > I think you are going to fork out a lot of dough if you want all the first
> > editions, unless you have the first edition of Magician that is. If you do
> > then I have only one thing to say: you lucky pig! <g>
> >
> > Henrik
> >
> Funny thing is my local library has the US first edition hardback in general
> circulation. I wonder if i could get em to sell it cheap...

Or alternately, just borrow it out and don't return it. *g*

Cheers,
James



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From: "Dave White" <dave@davewhite.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Swashbuckling fantasy
Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 14:28:03 +0100
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Dave White" <dave@davewhite.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Swashbuckling fantasy
Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 14:28:03 +0100
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Swashbucking derives from swashbuckle.
The OED defines that as : engage in daring and romantic adventures with
ostentatious bravado or flamboyance: a crew of swashbuckling buccaneers.

Swash has several meanings, but the most likely from OED is : 
archaic (of a person) flamboyantly swagger about or wield a sword: he
swashed about self-confidently.
-ORIGIN mid 16th cent. (in the sense 'make a noise like swords clashing
or beating on shields'): imitative.

Buckler :  noun. historical a small round shield held by a handle or
worn on the forearm.
-ORIGIN Middle English: from Old French (escu) bocler, literally
'(shield) with a boss', from bocle 'buckle, boss' (see BUCKLE).

Dave

-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Fred Collington
>Sent: 03 July 2002 13:31
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: Swashbuckling fantasy
>
>
>In reading the recent posts about types of fantasy, I
>realized that I catgorized much of Ray and Joel's work
>as swashbuckling fantasy. It's a term I've heard since
>I was a lad. 
>
>So my question is: What is a swash, and why does it
>have to be buckled? Perhaps if you can answer the
>first part, the second part will be obvious?
>
>Cheers,
>Fred
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Sign up for SBC Yahoo! Dial - First Month Free http://sbc.yahoo.com
>


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Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 06:35:20 -0700 (PDT)
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From: Chris Vance <pikachu_chris@yahoo.com.sg>
Subject: Re: Which is the real 1st edition
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 06:35:20 -0700 (PDT)
From: Chris Vance <pikachu_chris@yahoo.com.sg>
Subject: Re: Which is the real 1st edition
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Okay so besides asking Raymond all the time about
whether I have the real deal 1st ed (planning on
buying Magician 1st Ed HC in NM condition for
US$275)is there anywhere else i can get the info?
--- James Barker <heechee@softhome.net> wrote:
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Andrew Scott" <a.sc0tt@attbi.com>
> To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> Sent: Wednesday, July 03, 2002 6:39 PM
> Subject: Re: Which is the real 1st edition
> 
> 
> > > Chris Vance said:
> > > > Arggh!!! Looks like I got to fork out more
> dough....
> > > > It just seems that my collection is
> incomplete....
> > > > Know what I mean?
> > >
> > > I think you are going to fork out a lot of dough
> if you want all the
> first
> > > editions, unless you have the first edition of
> Magician that is. If you
> do
> > > then I have only one thing to say: you lucky
> pig! <g>
> > >
> > > Henrik
> > >
> > Funny thing is my local library has the US first
> edition hardback in
> general
> > circulation. I wonder if i could get em to sell it
> cheap...
> 
> Or alternately, just borrow it out and don't return
> it. *g*
> 
> Cheers,
> James
> 


=====
The Brainless

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Sign up for SBC Yahoo! Dial - First Month Free
http://sbc.yahoo.com



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 09:51:39 -0700
Subject: The UK part of the Tour
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: fEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

This is the 1st info I have and don't ask me specific locations, as I 
have no idea where these places are.

I'll post more up-to-date info when I get it.

Monday 9 September
Lunch signing at Hammicks, Harrow 	12.30-1.30pm

Evening event at Borders, Oxford Street, WC1 7.00pm



Tuesday 10 September
Lunch signing at Hammicks, Basingstoke  12.30-1.30pm


Wednesday 11 September

Evening event at Ottakar’s Milton Keynes  6.30pm

Thursday 12 September
Lunch signing at Blackwell’s Bristol 12.30-1.30pm

Evening event at Waterstone’s, West End, Edinburgh 7.00pm	

Friday 13 September
Lunch signing with Ottakar’s, Sunderland 12.10-1.30pm
Evening event at Waterstone’s, Manchester 7.00pm


Saturday 14 September
Lunch signing with Ottakar’s, Chelmsford 12.30-1.30pm

Now, I post this for those of you local to those stores.  I assume 
you'll be able to find the locations of those stores before I get that.  
Some things may be added, but for now these are pretty much set in 
stone, so I doubt anything will be canceled.  The "events" btw are me 
yakin' for a half hour then signing, vs. just sitting down and signing.

Best, R.E.F.

----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.

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From: "Christopher Livingston" <Chrislivingston@btinternet.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
References: <24E50502-8EA5-11D6-AB8C-003065A8A644@bittersea.com>
Subject: Re: The UK part of the Tour
Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 19:07:53 +0100
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Christopher Livingston" <Chrislivingston@btinternet.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: The UK part of the Tour
Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 19:07:53 +0100
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Excellent! You're coming to Chelmsford, any chance of setting aside
some drinking time while your here? I'll get the first round.

Chris Livingston
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: Raymond Feist 
>To: fEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu 
>Sent: Wednesday, July 03, 2002 5:51 PM
>Subject: The UK part of the Tour
>
>
>This is the 1st info I have and don't ask me specific locations, as I have no idea where these places are.
>
>I'll post more up-to-date info when I get it.
>
>Monday 9 September
>Lunch signing at Hammicks, Harrow 12.30-1.30pm
>
>Evening event at Borders, Oxford Street, WC1 7.00pm
>
>
>
>Tuesday 10 September
>Lunch signing at Hammicks, Basingstoke 12.30-1.30pm
>
>
>Wednesday 11 September
>
>Evening event at Ottakar’s Milton Keynes 6.30pm
>
>Thursday 12 September
>Lunch signing at Blackwell’s Bristol 12.30-1.30pm
>
>Evening event at Waterstone’s, West End, Edinburgh 7.00pm 
>
>Friday 13 September
>Lunch signing with Ottakar’s, Sunderland 12.10-1.30pm
>Evening event at Waterstone’s, Manchester 7.00pm
>
>
>Saturday 14 September
>Lunch signing with Ottakar’s, Chelmsford 12.30-1.30pm
>
>Now, I post this for those of you local to those stores. I assume you'll be able to find the locations of those stores before I get that. Some things may be added, but for now these are pretty much set in stone, so I doubt anything will be canceled. The "events" btw are me yakin' for a half hour then signing, vs. just sitting down and signing.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by stupidity.

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From: "M Chaloner" <markchaloner@btinternet.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: The UK part of the Tour
Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 20:00:35 +0100
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*** EOOH ***
From: "M Chaloner" <markchaloner@btinternet.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: The UK part of the Tour
Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 20:00:35 +0100
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>This is the 1st info I have and don't ask me specific locations, as I
>have no idea where these places are.
><snip>
>Now, I post this for those of you local to those stores. I assume you'll
>be able to find the locations of those stores before I get that. Some
>things may be added, but for now these are pretty much set in stone, so
>I doubt anything will be canceled. The "events" btw are me yakin' for a
>half hour then signing, vs. just sitting down and signing.
>Best, R.E.F.
>


I just want to say thanks for the detailed information.
This'll be the first time I'll have had chance to meet you,
(and the first time you'll have chance to meet the person
who sent that infamous Simpson's Gif by mistake!).
I live closest to Manchester, so I'll see you there.

Mark ;-)



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Subject: Re: Swashbuckling fantasy
Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 7:05:25 +1200
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*** EOOH ***
From: wootten@xtra.co.nz
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Swashbuckling fantasy
Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 7:05:25 +1200
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The origins of "swashbuckler"...

Well the way I heard, it comes from people who used
bucklers (as opposed to shields) more.  When
not in use, it hung from the belt on the hip, and 
when said person walked around, rubbing against
their clothing made a kind of "swash"ing sound.

If this is so, then once the term swashbuckler came
about, then it probably took on meanings associated
with the type of person that tended to use a buckler.

Personally, I think bucklers are fun to use, and prefer
them to shields.

Julie.



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From: "Magnus Arvidsson" <magnus.arvidsson75@telia.com>
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Subject: Re: The UK part of the Tour
Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 21:19:11 +0200
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Magnus Arvidsson" <magnus.arvidsson75@telia.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: The UK part of the Tour
Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 21:19:11 +0200
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Are you by any chance stopping by
Nyköping in September Ray? ;D I wish it was so!

anyway, that's it.

Sincerely sort of,
Magnus
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: Raymond Feist 
>To: fEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu 
>Sent: Wednesday, July 03, 2002 6:51 PM
>Subject: The UK part of the Tour
>
>
>This is the 1st info I have and don't ask me specific locations, as I have no idea where these places are.
>
>I'll post more up-to-date info when I get it.
>
>Monday 9 September
>Lunch signing at Hammicks, Harrow 12.30-1.30pm
>
>Evening event at Borders, Oxford Street, WC1 7.00pm
>
>
>
>Tuesday 10 September
>Lunch signing at Hammicks, Basingstoke 12.30-1.30pm
>
>
>Wednesday 11 September
>
>Evening event at Ottakar’s Milton Keynes 6.30pm
>
>Thursday 12 September
>Lunch signing at Blackwell’s Bristol 12.30-1.30pm
>
>Evening event at Waterstone’s, West End, Edinburgh 7.00pm 
>
>Friday 13 September
>Lunch signing with Ottakar’s, Sunderland 12.10-1.30pm
>Evening event at Waterstone’s, Manchester 7.00pm
>
>
>Saturday 14 September
>Lunch signing with Ottakar’s, Chelmsford 12.30-1.30pm
>
>Now, I post this for those of you local to those stores. I assume you'll be able to find the locations of those stores before I get that. Some things may be added, but for now these are pretty much set in stone, so I doubt anything will be canceled. The "events" btw are me yakin' for a half hour then signing, vs. just sitting down and signing.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by stupidity.

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From: "Bruce Stedman" <bjs@bjs.org.uk>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Fantasy Styles (was OT : WoT)
Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 20:23:31 +0100
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Bruce Stedman" <bjs@bjs.org.uk>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Fantasy Styles (was OT : WoT)
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1) Books I've read and 2) books I've got but havn't read yet (like HE)

:-)

BJS

PS - I guess Faerie Tale is Dark Fantasy. Make a great film <g>

-----Original Message-----
>From: Joshua Stanton [mailto:jasharkalain@yahoo.com]
>Sent: 02 July 2002 18:53
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: RE: Fantasy Styles (was OT : WoT)
>
>
>I personally have to major catagories, which I use to
>qualify ever book I read.  1) Books I like.  2) Books
>I don't like.
>
>Joshua. 
>


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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 13:37:23 -0700
Subject: Re: The UK part of the Tour
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On Wednesday, July 3, 2002, at 11:07 AM, Christopher Livingston wrote:

> Excellent! You're coming to Chelmsford, any chance of setting aside 
> some drinking time while your here? I'll get the first round.
>  
>

I rarely have time to do much but stand around and chat for a few 
minutes after, as I'm off and running to another city or back to the 
hotel.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.
>

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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 13:38:55 -0700
Subject: Re: The UK part of the Tour
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On Wednesday, July 3, 2002, at 12:19 PM, Magnus Arvidsson wrote:

> Are you by any chance stopping by
> Nyköping in September Ray? ;D I wish it was so!
>

Where?

So far I have only the British stuff; Holland, Australia, and New 
Zealand later (but I know NZ will only be in the Auckland area).

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.
>

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*** EOOH ***
From: "Magnus Arvidsson" <magnus.arvidsson75@telia.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: The UK part of the Tour
Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 23:17:11 +0200
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Nyköping is in Sweden.. =) just south of Stockholm. I asked since there
have been an increase in sales? and releases here in sweden. Magician 
har been re-printed and so on. =) Maybe a small visit to Sweden's leading
SF book store www.sfbok.se in either Gothemburg or Stockholm would be
a thing to consider? That is if your publishers tells you to go there.. I seem 
to remember you telling us some time ago that you have pretty much no say 
when it comes to the tours. Anyway, Science Fiction-bokhandeln (the store I 
mentioned earlier) does have book signings by foreign authors so maybe your 
publishers might want to send you on over here sometime? =) I hope so anyway Ray.

In any case, I'm out.

Sincerely,

Magnus
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: Raymond Feist 
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu 
>Sent: Wednesday, July 03, 2002 10:38 PM
>Subject: Re: The UK part of the Tour
>
>
>On Wednesday, July 3, 2002, at 12:19 PM, Magnus Arvidsson wrote:
>>Are you by any chance stopping by
>>Nyköping in September Ray? ;D I wish it was so!
>
>Where?
>
>So far I have only the British stuff; Holland, Australia, and New Zealand later (but I know NZ will only be in the Auckland area).
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by stupidity.

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Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 16:01:24 -0700
Subject: Re: The UK part of the Tour
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 16:01:24 -0700
Subject: Re: The UK part of the Tour
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Wednesday, July 3, 2002, at 02:17 PM, Magnus Arvidsson wrote:

> Nyköping is in Sweden.. =) just south of Stockholm. I asked since there
> have been an increase in sales? and releases here in sweden. Magician
> har been re-printed and so on. =) Maybe a small visit to Sweden's 
> leading
> SF book store www.sfbok.se in either Gothemburg or Stockholm would be
> a thing to consider? That is if your publishers tells you to go there.. 
> I seem
> to remember you telling us some time ago that you have pretty much no 
> say
> when it comes to the tours. Anyway, Science Fiction-bokhandeln (the 
> store I
> mentioned earlier) does have book signings by foreign authors so maybe 
> your
> publishers might want to send you on over here sometime? =) I hope so 
> anyway Ray.
>  
> In any case, I'm out.
>  
> Sincerely,
>  
> Magnus
>

I'd love to visit Sweden.  All you have to do is get your local 
bookseller to convince the Swedish publisher to get me over there the 
next time I'm in Europe.  I'd love a tour that included Paris, Berlin, 
Copenhagen, Stockholm, and Oslo, for example, if those publishers would 
band together and pay for it.

But as I've said many times, I have no control over this stuff.  So far, 
only the Dutch publisher has seen fit to work with the British to get me 
over to Holland when I'm flying across the Atlantic.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.
>
>
>

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From: "Magnus Arvidsson" <magnus.arvidsson75@telia.com>
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Subject: Re: The UK part of the Tour
Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 01:34:50 +0200
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From: "Magnus Arvidsson" <magnus.arvidsson75@telia.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: The UK part of the Tour
Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 01:34:50 +0200
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Ray,
I'll have a look at the possibility. Most likely the publisher would like to have
you here once to further promote the books they are printing and publishing!
The question is: Do they have the money or must they cooperate with others
in order to get the thing going? Damn if I had the money and the free time in
September I would fly over to the U.K and come to one of your signings, but hey,
a teacher can't take 3 days off to go to a booksigning when the term has just started
right? I wouldn't think so anyway! I will probably be stuck in the class room teaching english
and swedish.. =) Maybe I should have the students read Faerie tale? ;D

I will nag at my local bokkstore.. And hopefully you will get to see Sweden soon enough!

Sincerely

Magnus
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: Raymond Feist 
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu 
>Sent: Thursday, July 04, 2002 1:01 AM
>Subject: Re: The UK part of the Tour
>
>
>On Wednesday, July 3, 2002, at 02:17 PM, Magnus Arvidsson wrote:
>
>
>  Nyköping is in Sweden.. =) just south of Stockholm. I asked since there
>  have been an increase in sales? and releases here in sweden. Magician
>  har been re-printed and so on. =) Maybe a small visit to Sweden's leading
>  SF book store www.sfbok.se in either Gothemburg or Stockholm would be
>  a thing to consider? That is if your publishers tells you to go there.. I seem
>  to remember you telling us some time ago that you have pretty much no say
>  when it comes to the tours. Anyway, Science Fiction-bokhandeln (the store I
>  mentioned earlier) does have book signings by foreign authors so maybe your
>  publishers might want to send you on over here sometime? =) I hope so anyway Ray.
>   
>  In any case, I'm out.
>   
>  Sincerely,
>   
>  Magnus
>
>
>
>I'd love to visit Sweden. All you have to do is get your local bookseller to convince the Swedish publisher to get me over there the next time I'm in Europe. I'd love a tour that included Paris, Berlin, Copenhagen, Stockholm, and Oslo, for example, if those publishers would band together and pay for it.
>
>But as I've said many times, I have no control over this stuff. So far, only the Dutch publisher has seen fit to work with the British to get me over to Holland when I'm flying across the Atlantic.
>
>Best, R.E.F.

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From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Which is the real 1st edition
In-Reply-To: <20020703054617.22697.qmail@web9602.mail.yahoo.com>
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Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 10:32:07 +1000 (GMT+1000)
From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Which is the real 1st edition
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Whats wrong with just first edition UK editions?

Thats all I collect...

> Arggh!!! Looks like I got to fork out more dough....
> It just seems that my collection is incomplete....
> Know what I mean?
>
> Worse still is that I only get the UK version in
> Singapore. Any good samaritans out there in the States
> who want to help me get my missing books??
>
> C.I.A
>
>
> --- Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au> wrote:
> >
> > Look at the publishing information and there should
> > be a line of numbers
> > about half way down the page, and if there is a 1 in
> > it, it means its a
> > first..
> >
> > (at least I hope so, I think John Bunting told me
> > that a while back)
> >
> >
> > > > Dear all,
> > > >
> > > > I have a problem that I hope someone could
> > enlighten
> > > > me on. Lately it's become a hobby of mine to
> > collect
> > > > all the 1st editions of Ray's work. However, I
> > can't
> > > > seem to find a good source of reference.
> > > >
> > > > For example, Tear of the Gods is listed as being
> > > > published by Morrow,William & Co on February
> > 2001 on B
> > > > and N but Amazon lists it as HarperCollins;
> > ISBN:
> > > > 0380978008; March 6, 2001. I have the
> > HarperCollins
> > > > Voyager version.
> > > >
> > > > So which is the 1st edition??
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > There's only one edition.  Morrow is a division of
> > HarperCollins,and I
> > > signed my original deal with Morrow/Avon when they
> > were owned by Hearst
> > > Publishing.  Hearst sold them to HarperCollins,
> > and Avon/EOS and
> > > Harper/Prism merged.  So it's a bookkeeping thing.
> > >
> > > Best, R.E.F.
> > > ----
> > >
> > > Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily
> > be explained away by
> > > stupidity.
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Thanks
> > Darragh
> > ================================================
> > msn: iamtheporkfireman@hotmail.com
> >
> > "Believe or die - thank you O lord for all those
> >  options" - Bill Hicks.
> > ================================================
> >
>
>
> =====
> The Brainless
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Sign up for SBC Yahoo! Dial - First Month Free
> http://sbc.yahoo.com
>
>

Thanks
Darragh
================================================
msn: iamtheporkfireman@hotmail.com

"Believe or die - thank you O lord for all those
 options" - Bill Hicks.
================================================



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From: "vlukic.george" <vlukic.george@chariot.net.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: The UK part of the Tour
Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 10:04:03 +0930
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Would it be possible for us to find out when (If :P) you're coming to
Adelaide, Australia?

Regards,
George Lukic

figured it was about time I actually said something on this list...
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: Raymond Feist 
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu 
>Sent: Thursday, July 04, 2002 6:08 AM
>Subject: Re: The UK part of the Tour
>
>
>On Wednesday, July 3, 2002, at 12:19 PM, Magnus Arvidsson wrote:
>
>
>  Are you by any chance stopping by
>  Nyköping in September Ray? ;D I wish it was so!
>
>
>
>Where?
>
>So far I have only the British stuff; Holland, Australia, and New Zealand later (but I know NZ will only be in the Auckland area).
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by stupidity.

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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 23:28:34 -0700
Subject: Re: The UK part of the Tour
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Wednesday, July 3, 2002, at 05:34 PM, vlukic.george wrote:

> Would it be possible for us to find out when (If :P) you're coming to 
> Adelaide, Australia?
>  

I'll be there around the 18th and 19th of Sep.  I just don't know the 
time and places yet.

Best, R.E.F.

> ----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.
>
>
>

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From: Chris Vance <pikachu_chris@yahoo.com.sg>
Subject: Re: The UK part of the Tour
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 00:47:17 -0700 (PDT)
From: Chris Vance <pikachu_chris@yahoo.com.sg>
Subject: Re: The UK part of the Tour
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Dear Raymond,

I'll be sending my 2 little sisters down with my
books. Could you autograph them for me. I also asked
them to take some pictures. Probably the closest i'd
get to meeting you until I can arrange the book
signing in Singapore with Borders.

C.I.A
--- Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com> wrote:
> 
> On Wednesday, July 3, 2002, at 05:34 PM,
> vlukic.george wrote:
> 
> > Would it be possible for us to find out when
> (If :P) you're coming to 
> > Adelaide, Australia?
> >  
> 
> I'll be there around the 18th and 19th of Sep.  I
> just don't know the 
> time and places yet.
> 
> Best, R.E.F.
> 
> > ----
> 
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be
> explained away by 
> stupidity.
> >
> >
> >
> 


=====
The Brainless

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Sign up for SBC Yahoo! Dial - First Month Free
http://sbc.yahoo.com



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References: <038484D6-8D0A-11D6-985C-003065A8A644@bittersea.com>
Subject: Re: When is R.E.F coming to Perth?
Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 19:57:58 +0800
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Alan Noonan" <alannoonan@iinet.net.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: When is R.E.F coming to Perth?
Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 19:57:58 +0800
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Ray,

Agree 100% with your comment

Alan
----- Original Message ----- 
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Monday, July 01, 2002 11:48 PM
Subject: Re: When is R.E.F coming to Perth?


> 
> On Sunday, June 30, 2002, at 06:29 PM, Chris Vance wrote:
> 
> > Anybody know where and when R.E.F is going down to
> > Perth? Probably need my cousin to go send my books for
> > his autograph. Or can anybody suggest another method?
> >
> > =====
> > The Mindfuck
> >
> >
> 
> Looks like I'm arriving the just after midnight  of the 15th of 
> September, and doing stuff on the 15th and 16th before flying on to 
> Adelaid.
> 
> A personal note: I find your signature pretty offensive given there are 
> youngsters who subscribe to this list.  Consider changing it, please.  
> It's not terribly cute or original.
> 
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
> 
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
> stupidity.
> 
> 
> 



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From: "Stuart Maher" <stuart.maher@ntlworld.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: The UK part of the Tour
Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 13:43:26 +0100
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Stuart Maher" <stuart.maher@ntlworld.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: The UK part of the Tour
Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 13:43:26 +0100
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Hi Ray,

Great news (for those of us in the UK!). Will we upset or offend the
bookstore if we bring our own books to sign, given i've already gotten my
copy of Murder in La Mut. I don't want to seem like i'm treading on their
toes!

Also, is it just you on the tour, or is Joel with you as well as co-author?

Thanks

Stu

P.S. If they havn't already on previous tours, I hope the publishers book
you a spot in Dublin. You have a lot of fans their, the craic is great, and
whilst we are not known for our wines or single malts, we have other drinks
that'll make you happy. Besides gives me another excuse to go home for a
weekend ;-)
>  -----Original Message-----
>  From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Raymond Feist
>  Sent: 03 July 2002 17:52
>  To: fEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>  Subject: The UK part of the Tour
>
>
>  This is the 1st info I have and don't ask me specific locations, as I have
>no idea where these places are.
>
>  I'll post more up-to-date info when I get it.
>
>  Monday 9 September
>  Lunch signing at Hammicks, Harrow 12.30-1.30pm
>
>  Evening event at Borders, Oxford Street, WC1 7.00pm
>
>
>
>  Tuesday 10 September
>  Lunch signing at Hammicks, Basingstoke 12.30-1.30pm
>
>
>  Wednesday 11 September
>
>  Evening event at Ottakar’s Milton Keynes 6.30pm
>
>  Thursday 12 September
>  Lunch signing at Blackwell’s Bristol 12.30-1.30pm
>
>  Evening event at Waterstone’s, West End, Edinburgh 7.00pm
>
>  Friday 13 September
>  Lunch signing with Ottakar’s, Sunderland 12.10-1.30pm
>  Evening event at Waterstone’s, Manchester 7.00pm
>
>
>  Saturday 14 September
>  Lunch signing with Ottakar’s, Chelmsford 12.30-1.30pm
>
>  Now, I post this for those of you local to those stores. I assume you'll
>be able to find the locations of those stores before I get that. Some things
>may be added, but for now these are pretty much set in stone, so I doubt
>anything will be canceled. The "events" btw are me yakin' for a half hour
>then signing, vs. just sitting down and signing.
>
>  Best, R.E.F.
>
>  ----
>
>  Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
>stupidity.

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Subject: Ray in plane
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu,  4 Jul 2002 12:45:49 +0000
Subject: Ray in plane
From: "Sylvain Guehl" <fenyxkell@demo.xandmail.com>
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Hi Ray,

A question occured to my mind. When you're on tour like this, from US
to Europe then Australia, catching so many planes all the time... What
do you do most of the time in the plane ? Sleep ? Watch a movie ? Read
? Write ? Talk ?

Syl



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Subject: RE: The UK part of the Tour
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 04 Jul 2002 14:24:20 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: RE: The UK part of the Tour
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

At 13:43 04/07/2002, Stuart Maher spake thusly:
>Great news (for those of us in the UK!). Will we upset or offend the 
>bookstore if we bring our own books to sign, given i've already gotten my 
>copy of Murder in La Mut. I don't want to seem like i'm treading on their 
>toes! 

Generally you bring as many books as possible.  By the crate.
Otherwise, Ray will think you don't care.

If the bookstore makes a stink, make a bigger one. *shrugs*

You will only be allowed to bring three books at a time to
the table for Ray's (*ehem*) signature (*chortle snort*),
then it's to the back of the line.  The trick to defeating
this is to /start/ at the back of the line.  Because if there's
only the five or six of you back there, each with your three
crates of books, Ray will sign everything you got (time,
circumstances permitting).

>P.S. If they havn't already on previous tours, I hope the publishers book 
>you a spot in Dublin. You have a lot of fans their, the craic is great, and 
>whilst we are not known for our wines or single malts, we have other drinks 
>that'll make you happy. Besides gives me another excuse to go home for a 
>weekend ;-)

Searching back through the archives, he notes that he was there in
1988.  *grins*.  I'm pretty sure he's been back there since then.

rip





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Subject: Re: The UK part of the Tour
Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 23:20:54 +0930
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Mark Tonkin" <shadowfire@chariot.net.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: The UK part of the Tour
Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 23:20:54 +0930
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Yay!  Another person from Adelaide on the list!

My guess is that Ray will be going to either Dymocks or Borders in Rundle
Mall.  Dymocks usually holds the book signings, but Borders is a larger
store and is more suited to it.  Ray has already said that he'll be here
some time around the 18th of September.  We'll find out some time in the
next few months :-).

- MARK

========================================
Dilbert's rules of order #2:
"I love deadlines.  I especially like the wooshing
sound they make as they go flying by."

----- Original Message -----
>From: vlukic.george
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Sent: Thursday, July 04, 2002 10:04 AM
>Subject: Re: The UK part of the Tour
>
>
>Would it be possible for us to find out when (If :P) you're coming to
>Adelaide, Australia?
>
>Regards,
>George Lukic
>
>figured it was about time I actually said something on this list...
>



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 5 Jul 2002 00:20:19 +1000
From: Paul Duthie <pduthie@ncable.net.au>
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Organization: dd Computing
To: Chris Vance <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re[2]: The UK part of the Tour
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Hello All



Thursday, July 4, 2002, 5:47:17 PM, you wrote:

CV> Dear Raymond,

CV> I'll be sending my 2 little sisters down with my
CV> books. Could you autograph them for me.

The little sisters or the books ? :)

Sorry couldn't resist.

CV> I also asked
CV> them to take some pictures. Probably the closest i'd
CV> get to meeting you until I can arrange the book
CV> signing in Singapore with Borders.

CV> C.I.A
CV> --- Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com> wrote:
>> 
>> On Wednesday, July 3, 2002, at 05:34 PM,
>> vlukic.george wrote:
>> 
>> > Would it be possible for us to find out when
>> (If :P) you're coming to 
>> > Adelaide, Australia?
>> >  
>> 
>> I'll be there around the 18th and 19th of Sep.  I
>> just don't know the 
>> time and places yet.
>> 
>> Best, R.E.F.
>> 
>> > ----
>> 
>> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be
>> explained away by 
>> stupidity.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> 


CV> =====
CV> The Brainless

CV> __________________________________________________
CV> Do You Yahoo!?
CV> Sign up for SBC Yahoo! Dial - First Month Free
CV> http://sbc.yahoo.com



-- 
Best regards,
 Paul                            mailto:pduthie@ncable.net.au



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Subject: Re: When is R.E.F coming to Perth?
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 07:55:28 -0700 (PDT)
From: Chris Vance <pikachu_chris@yahoo.com.sg>
Subject: Re: When is R.E.F coming to Perth?
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Apologies once again to those who did not see my
previous entry.

I have removed the old signature and replaced it with
my new one.

Regards.

CIA
--- Alan Noonan <alannoonan@iinet.net.au> wrote:
> Ray,
> 
> Agree 100% with your comment
> 
> Alan
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
> To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> Sent: Monday, July 01, 2002 11:48 PM
> Subject: Re: When is R.E.F coming to Perth?
> 
> 
> > 
> > On Sunday, June 30, 2002, at 06:29 PM, Chris Vance
> wrote:
> > 
> > > Anybody know where and when R.E.F is going down
> to
> > > Perth? Probably need my cousin to go send my
> books for
> > > his autograph. Or can anybody suggest another
> method?
> > >
> > > =====
> > > The Mindfuck
> > >
> > >
> > 
> > Looks like I'm arriving the just after midnight 
> of the 15th of 
> > September, and doing stuff on the 15th and 16th
> before flying on to 
> > Adelaid.
> > 
> > A personal note: I find your signature pretty
> offensive given there are 
> > youngsters who subscribe to this list.  Consider
> changing it, please.  
> > It's not terribly cute or original.
> > 
> > Best, R.E.F.
> > ----
> > 
> > Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily
> be explained away by 
> > stupidity.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> 


=====
The Brainless

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Sign up for SBC Yahoo! Dial - First Month Free
http://sbc.yahoo.com



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Subject: Re: Re[2]: The UK part of the Tour
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 08:13:14 -0700 (PDT)
From: Chris Vance <pikachu_chris@yahoo.com.sg>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: The UK part of the Tour
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Ha Ha very funny....

Well I would'nt mine both but I can't possibly ask my
sisters not to go have a bath so that I can keep the
signatures now could I...... hmmm... Nah!!!

So looks like I just have to settle for the books.

Speaking of which... I just finished MiLM... 

Spoiler Space (Don't continue if you haven't had a
chance to read the book, I don't want to spoil the
ending for you)










Raymond... I do not mean to cause offence with my
comments... but I really wanted and expected more than
the "Butler Did It" plot with the "Innocent Man
punished" routine  (He was innocent right?).
I honestly felt that it would have been better of if
Edwin, Baron Viztria was the mastermind. Would give me
someone loathsome to really enjoy seeing get killed.
But that's just my opinion. 

Still I enjoyed parts of the rest of the story.
Especially when Kethol was trying to act smart.
Probably seems like what I'm doing now.... :) 

--- Paul Duthie <pduthie@ncable.net.au> wrote:
> Hello All
> 
> 
> 
> Thursday, July 4, 2002, 5:47:17 PM, you wrote:
> 
> CV> Dear Raymond,
> 
> CV> I'll be sending my 2 little sisters down with my
> CV> books. Could you autograph them for me.
> 
> The little sisters or the books ? :)
> 
> Sorry couldn't resist.
> 
> CV> I also asked
> CV> them to take some pictures. Probably the closest
> i'd
> CV> get to meeting you until I can arrange the book
> CV> signing in Singapore with Borders.
> 
> CV> C.I.A
> CV> --- Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com> wrote:
> >> 
> >> On Wednesday, July 3, 2002, at 05:34 PM,
> >> vlukic.george wrote:
> >> 
> >> > Would it be possible for us to find out when
> >> (If :P) you're coming to 
> >> > Adelaide, Australia?
> >> >  
> >> 
> >> I'll be there around the 18th and 19th of Sep.  I
> >> just don't know the 
> >> time and places yet.
> >> 
> >> Best, R.E.F.
> >> 
> >> > ----
> >> 
> >> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily
> be
> >> explained away by 
> >> stupidity.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> 
> 
> 
> CV> =====
> CV> The Brainless
> 
> CV>
> __________________________________________________
> CV> Do You Yahoo!?
> CV> Sign up for SBC Yahoo! Dial - First Month Free
> CV> http://sbc.yahoo.com
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Best regards,
>  Paul                           
> mailto:pduthie@ncable.net.au
> 


=====
The Brainless

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Sign up for SBC Yahoo! Dial - First Month Free
http://sbc.yahoo.com



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Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 09:06:15 -0700
Subject: Re: Ray in plane
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 09:06:15 -0700
Subject: Re: Ray in plane
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Thursday, July 4, 2002, at 05:45 AM, Sylvain Guehl wrote:

> Hi Ray,
>
> A question occured to my mind. When you're on tour like this, from US 
> to Europe then Australia, catching so many planes all the time... What 
> do you do most of the time in the plane ? Sleep ? Watch a movie ? 
> Read ? Write ? Talk ?
>

It depends on a number of variables, mostly 1) how many hours   2) what 
time do I arrive at my destination and 3) what time do I depart and 40 
what do I have to do once I hit the ground.

For example, if the last one is "nothing for a day," and I can use the 
time to walk around and reset my biological clock to local time, I have 
more freedom to read/work on the plane, don't have to worry as much 
about what I eat or drink, etc.  If it's "check into the hotel then head 
off for your first appearance," then the routine on the plane can be 
much different.

I'm never going west on this flight (except for the hop across the 
Channel from Amsterdam to London, which hardly matters), so it's going 
to be a bit strange for me.

Going west is easier on the really long flights when I'm heading 
Downunder to work, for one example.  Going home is never a problem, as I 
just plan on falling apart once I hit the ground.

Here's an example of my routine going to Oz from California.  The flight 
out of LAX is almost always the Air New Zealand, United, or Quantas 
flights that leave around 11 pm (11 for ANZ, 11: 20 for U, and 11: 40 
for U).  I get on the plane, settle in, when we're  up and going, I kill 
an hour or two reading/watching a film, then eat a light snack (salad 
and maybe a single glass of wine or a soft drink).  Then I take a 
sleeping pill (Halcion or Resteril) and knock myself out for seven 
hours.  I wake up, eat a hearty breakfast (lots of coffee), then start 
to work.  I'll try to get three or four hour on the computer, then have 
lunch. (One nice thing about flying international First Class is you get 
your meals whenever you want).  After lunch I read or watch a movie or 
play computer games for an hour or two.  Then for the last three hours 
of the flight I try to work, but if I can't, it's watch a film.

I hit the ground in Sydney about 7 am local time.  So I get to the 
hotel, which is always the same one in the Darling Harbor area.  I am 
checked in about 8:30-9 am after having gone through customs, drive to 
the hotel, etc.  I shower, change, and take a walk around the Rocks for 
2 hours.  Then I use the gym at the hotel, take another shower and get 
back to my room.  I order up room service lunch, and then take a 1 hour 
nap afterwards.  Now, comes the hard part,  After the nap, I get 
dressed, and go out for another walk for two hours, then fight to stay 
awake between 3 pm and 8 or 9pm.  I sometimes head over to the Star 
Casino and play cards (I'm really good at playing cards on too little 
sleep when I'm in Vegas, so this gets easy).

If I can stay awake until about 9pm, then turn in, I'm up at about 5 or 
6 am the next day and there's no jet lag.  Usually my first appointment 
will be at 9 or 10am that day, so by then I'm off an running.

Going to Europe poses a completely different set of problems, as I'll 
leave San Diego at 5pm and arrive in London at 11 am (or Amsterdam at 3 
pm) the next day, flying through the entire night.  I find that instead 
of sleeping on the plane, it's best to stay awake the entire flight, 
then get outside as fast as possible when I'm in London, Paris, or 
wherever.  Being outside for two hours or longer really helps set the 
biological clock's sidreal time and overcome jet lag.  I also take 
melatonin right before I go to bed wherever I am.

Well, that's a peek at the thrill of traveling for business.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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From: Paul Atkinson <paul.atkinson@isntv.co.uk>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Ray in plane
Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 17:32:54 +0100 
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*** EOOH ***
From: Paul Atkinson <paul.atkinson@isntv.co.uk>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Ray in plane
Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 17:32:54 +0100 
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Hi Ray,

You said that you like to kill a few hours playing computer games. When
you're not travelling/writing etc. Do you have any favourite games/type of
game. I mean something like Ultima or Ultima Online sought of falls into a
similar area to the books you write. Do you like these kind of things?

Sorry to ask an inane question, but what else are fans for?

Thanks
Paul

-----Original Message-----
>From: Raymond Feist [mailto:raymond@bittersea.com]
>Sent: Thursday, July 04, 2002 5:06 PM
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: Re: Ray in plane
>
>
>
>On Thursday, July 4, 2002, at 05:45 AM, Sylvain Guehl wrote:
>
>> Hi Ray,
>>
>> A question occured to my mind. When you're on tour like this, from US 
>> to Europe then Australia, catching so many planes all the time... What 
>> do you do most of the time in the plane ? Sleep ? Watch a movie ? 
>> Read ? Write ? Talk ?
>>
>
>It depends on a number of variables, mostly 1) how many hours   2) what 
>time do I arrive at my destination and 3) what time do I depart and 40 
>what do I have to do once I hit the ground.
>
>For example, if the last one is "nothing for a day," and I can use the 
>time to walk around and reset my biological clock to local time, I have 
>more freedom to read/work on the plane, don't have to worry as much 
>about what I eat or drink, etc.  If it's "check into the hotel then head 
>off for your first appearance," then the routine on the plane can be 
>much different.
>
>I'm never going west on this flight (except for the hop across the 
>Channel from Amsterdam to London, which hardly matters), so it's going 
>to be a bit strange for me.
>
>Going west is easier on the really long flights when I'm heading 
>Downunder to work, for one example.  Going home is never a problem, as I 
>just plan on falling apart once I hit the ground.
>
>Here's an example of my routine going to Oz from California.  The flight 
>out of LAX is almost always the Air New Zealand, United, or Quantas 
>flights that leave around 11 pm (11 for ANZ, 11: 20 for U, and 11: 40 
>for U).  I get on the plane, settle in, when we're  up and going, I kill 
>an hour or two reading/watching a film, then eat a light snack (salad 
>and maybe a single glass of wine or a soft drink).  Then I take a 
>sleeping pill (Halcion or Resteril) and knock myself out for seven 
>hours.  I wake up, eat a hearty breakfast (lots of coffee), then start 
>to work.  I'll try to get three or four hour on the computer, then have 
>lunch. (One nice thing about flying international First Class is you get 
>your meals whenever you want).  After lunch I read or watch a movie or 
>play computer games for an hour or two.  Then for the last three hours 
>of the flight I try to work, but if I can't, it's watch a film.
>
>I hit the ground in Sydney about 7 am local time.  So I get to the 
>hotel, which is always the same one in the Darling Harbor area.  I am 
>checked in about 8:30-9 am after having gone through customs, drive to 
>the hotel, etc.  I shower, change, and take a walk around the Rocks for 
>2 hours.  Then I use the gym at the hotel, take another shower and get 
>back to my room.  I order up room service lunch, and then take a 1 hour 
>nap afterwards.  Now, comes the hard part,  After the nap, I get 
>dressed, and go out for another walk for two hours, then fight to stay 
>awake between 3 pm and 8 or 9pm.  I sometimes head over to the Star 
>Casino and play cards (I'm really good at playing cards on too little 
>sleep when I'm in Vegas, so this gets easy).
>
>If I can stay awake until about 9pm, then turn in, I'm up at about 5 or 
>6 am the next day and there's no jet lag.  Usually my first appointment 
>will be at 9 or 10am that day, so by then I'm off an running.
>
>Going to Europe poses a completely different set of problems, as I'll 
>leave San Diego at 5pm and arrive in London at 11 am (or Amsterdam at 3 
>pm) the next day, flying through the entire night.  I find that instead 
>of sleeping on the plane, it's best to stay awake the entire flight, 
>then get outside as fast as possible when I'm in London, Paris, or 
>wherever.  Being outside for two hours or longer really helps set the 
>biological clock's sidreal time and overcome jet lag.  I also take 
>melatonin right before I go to bed wherever I am.
>
>Well, that's a peek at the thrill of traveling for business.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
>stupidity.
>

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Subject: RE: Ray in plane
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu,  4 Jul 2002 17:20:33 +0000
Subject: RE: Ray in plane
From: "Sylvain Guehl" <fenyxkell@demo.xandmail.com>
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He plays BaK and RtK again and again, of course :)

(of course not, since they weren't release for Mac OS)

Syl


> Hi Ray,
> 
> You said that you like to kill a few hours playing computer games. When
> you're not travelling/writing etc. Do you have any favourite games/type of
> game. I mean something like Ultima or Ultima Online sought of falls into a
> similar area to the books you write. Do you like these kind of things?
> 
> Sorry to ask an inane question, but what else are fans for?
> 
> Thanks
> Paul



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 10:23:49 -0700
Subject: Happy Birthday USA
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: fEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Just a note to congratulate the US on another year without a revolution, 
bloody coups, or civil war.  That's 137 and counting.  Way to go, 
America!

Happy 226th Birthday.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 10:21:17 -0700
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On Thursday, July 4, 2002, at 09:32 AM, Paul Atkinson wrote:

> Hi Ray,
>
> You said that you like to kill a few hours playing computer games. When
> you're not travelling/writing etc. Do you have any favourite games/type 
> of
> game. I mean something like Ultima or Ultima Online sought of falls 
> into a
> similar area to the books you write. Do you like these kind of things?

Kind of hard to play on-line games at 36,000 ft over the Atlantic, isn't 
it?

I play some card games, puzzles, that sort of thing.

>
> Sorry to ask an inane question, but what else are fans for?
>
>

To make me rich beyond the dreams of avarice.  You had to ask?

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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From: "Susan" <susanandderek@freemail.absa.co.za>
To: "FEISTFANS-L@cornell. edu \(E-mail\)" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Help
Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 19:32:10 +0200
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I just got the whole Riftwar Legacy and Honoured Enemy, but my fiance wont
let me start reading until my birthday on the 23rd. Anybody know where I can
get my hands on some "Silverthorn"

Thanks

Derek



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From: "Steve Weghorn" <pelvislives@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Happy Fourth
Date: Thu, 04 Jul 2002 15:08:14 -0400
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I would like to wish all my fellow Americans on the list a heartfelt
Happy Fourth of July, be safe and have fun.

                                                            Steve Weghorn


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From: Gary Ponting <gary.ponting@van.hinz.com>
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Subject: OT: Other Authors
Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 13:38:52 -0700 
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From: Gary Ponting <gary.ponting@van.hinz.com>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: OT: Other Authors
Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 13:38:52 -0700 
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Sorry for the OT: It is book related though!!

I've just read and thoroughly enjoyed the Hornblower series by CS Forester.

I was wondering if anyone else has read the books or followed the series on
A&E. The series is roughly 10 books that follow the naval career of a young
Hornblower as he climbs in rank and fame. They are set in pre- and Napoleon
times.

Anyway thought it was great and wished to share.

..gary 



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Date: Thu, 04 Jul 2002 13:31:05 -0700
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Gary Ponting wrote:
> Sorry for the OT: It is book related though!!
> 
> I've just read and thoroughly enjoyed the Hornblower series by CS Forester.
> 
> I was wondering if anyone else has read the books or followed the series on
> A&E. The series is roughly 10 books that follow the naval career of a young
> Hornblower as he climbs in rank and fame. They are set in pre- and Napoleon
> times.
> 
> Anyway thought it was great and wished to share.

First read them some ... 30 years ago?  gads.  Yeah, they're an 
excellent series of books, and a wonderful character study, but I 
personally don't think much of the A&E miniseries.

cd
-- 
Death to all Absolutists!



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Subject: Re: Happy Birthday USA
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Raymond Feist wrote

> 
> Just a note to congratulate the US on another year without a revolution, 
> bloody coups, or civil war.  That's 137 and counting. Way to go, 
> America!
> 
> Happy 226th Birthday.
> 
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
> 
>
 
 Hooray for US(us)!!
 
 Of the 300,000,000 folks in this country, I think half
are here at the S. Jersey Shore for the week-end!! 
 
 Have some watermelon?
 
 Anita
 
 
 'Every happy ending needs to have a start.'

___________________________________________________________________
Join the Space Program: Get FREE E-mail at http://www.space.com.



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References: <737313DB-8F72-11D6-950D-003065A8A644@bittersea.com>
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*** EOOH ***
From: "-maniax-" <maniax@firetrack.demon.co.uk>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Ray in plane
Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 23:56:49 +0100
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----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Raymond Feist" <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Thursday, July 04, 2002 6:21 PM
Subject: Re: Ray in plane


<snip>

> > game. I mean something like Ultima or Ultima Online sought of falls 
> > into a
> > similar area to the books you write. Do you like these kind of things?
> 
> Kind of hard to play on-line games at 36,000 ft over the Atlantic, isn't 
> it?

I wouldn't be so sure about that

http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/59/25710.html

regards

-maniax-



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 22:29:43 -0700
Subject: Re: Ray in plane
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On Thursday, July 4, 2002, at 03:56 PM, -maniax- wrote:

>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Raymond Feist" <raymond@bittersea.com>
> To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> Sent: Thursday, July 04, 2002 6:21 PM
> Subject: Re: Ray in plane
>
>
> <snip>
>
>>> game. I mean something like Ultima or Ultima Online sought of falls
>>> into a
>>> similar area to the books you write. Do you like these kind of things?
>>
>> Kind of hard to play on-line games at 36,000 ft over the Atlantic, 
>> isn't
>> it?
>
> I wouldn't be so sure about that
>
> http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/59/25710.html
>

Still wouldn't waste my time playing on-line games.  Surf the net, yes.  
Games, no.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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From: Michael Gibson <gibbyfish@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Ray in plane
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 5 Jul 2002 14:55:54 +0100 (BST)
From: Michael Gibson <gibbyfish@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Ray in plane
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<snip>

> >>> game. I mean something like Ultima or Ultima Online sought of
> falls
> >>> into a
> >>> similar area to the books you write. Do you like these kind of
> things?
> >>
> >> Kind of hard to play on-line games at 36,000 ft over the
> Atlantic, 
> >> isn't
> >> it?
> >
> > I wouldn't be so sure about that
> >
> > http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/59/25710.html
> >
> 
> Still wouldn't waste my time playing on-line games.  Surf the net,
> yes.  
> Games, no.

Also, the latency inherent to a satellite link would make any "live
action" impossible.





====Mike,
Gibfish of Faringdonia

"I meant, have you ploughed the ocean waves at all?"
Colon gave him a cunning look.
"Ah, you can't catch me with that one, sir," he said.  "Everyone knows the horses would sink."

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Everything you'll ever need on one web page
from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts
http://uk.my.yahoo.com



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From: "M Chaloner" <markchaloner@btinternet.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Jimmy
Date: Fri, 5 Jul 2002 19:00:48 +0100
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*** EOOH ***
From: "M Chaloner" <markchaloner@btinternet.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Jimmy
Date: Fri, 5 Jul 2002 19:00:48 +0100
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-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Raymond Feist
>Sent: 30 June 2002 18:04
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: Re: Magnus?
><snip>
>Which reminds me, I need to check in with Steve on Jimmy The Hand and 
>find out when that one is going to be started.
>Best, R.E.F.
>

I know you said this is going to cover the time period of Jimmy's first
real big adventure on his own - any chance that time period'll be
inbetween the first and the second time Jimmy meets Arutha. (Y'know,
from the time period Arutha throws Jimmy a sword, to the time Jimmy's on
the roof and sees Arutha ride back into the city).

Mark ;-)



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 5 Jul 2002 11:56:19 -0700
Subject: Re: Jimmy
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Friday, July 5, 2002, at 11:00 AM, M Chaloner wrote:

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Raymond Feist
> Sent: 30 June 2002 18:04
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Subject: Re: Magnus?
> <snip>
> Which reminds me, I need to check in with Steve on Jimmy The Hand and
> find out when that one is going to be started.
> Best, R.E.F.
>
>
> I know you said this is going to cover the time period of Jimmy's first
> real big adventure on his own - any chance that time period'll be
> inbetween the first and the second time Jimmy meets Arutha. (Y'know,
> from the time period Arutha throws Jimmy a sword, to the time Jimmy's on
> the roof and sees Arutha ride back into the city).
>

Yup.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
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God Ray, I can't wait for this book.

Adieu

Jimmy (not the hand)


>From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: Re: Jimmy
>Date: Fri, 5 Jul 2002 11:56:19 -0700
>
>
>On Friday, July 5, 2002, at 11:00 AM, M Chaloner wrote:
>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Raymond Feist
>>Sent: 30 June 2002 18:04
>>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>>Subject: Re: Magnus?
>><snip>
>>Which reminds me, I need to check in with Steve on Jimmy The Hand and
>>find out when that one is going to be started.
>>Best, R.E.F.
>>
>>
>>I know you said this is going to cover the time period of Jimmy's first
>>real big adventure on his own - any chance that time period'll be
>>inbetween the first and the second time Jimmy meets Arutha. (Y'know,
>>from the time period Arutha throws Jimmy a sword, to the time Jimmy's on
>>the roof and sees Arutha ride back into the city).
>>
>
>Yup.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
>stupidity.




Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary 
Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
   -- Benjamin Franklin



_________________________________________________________________
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Magnus Arvidsson" <magnus.arvidsson75@telia.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Jimmy
Date: Fri, 5 Jul 2002 22:30:10 +0200
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Amen, Ray is indeed a God of fantasy writing.. =) Sorry couldn't help
myself. =)

=) Magnus

> God Ray, I can't wait for this book.
>
> Adieu
>
> Jimmy (not the hand)
>
>
> >Yup.
> >
> >Best, R.E.F.
> >----
> >
> >Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
> >stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
From: "M Chaloner" <markchaloner@btinternet.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Jimmy
Date: Fri, 5 Jul 2002 22:24:57 +0100
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu



-----Original Message-----
From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Raymond Feist
Sent: 05 July 2002 19:56
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Jimmy


On Friday, July 5, 2002, at 11:00 AM, M Chaloner wrote:

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Raymond Feist
> Sent: 30 June 2002 18:04
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Subject: Re: Magnus?
> <snip>
> Which reminds me, I need to check in with Steve on Jimmy The Hand and
> find out when that one is going to be started.
> Best, R.E.F.
>
>
> I know you said this is going to cover the time period of Jimmy's first
> real big adventure on his own - any chance that time period'll be
> inbetween the first and the second time Jimmy meets Arutha. (Y'know,
> from the time period Arutha throws Jimmy a sword, to the time Jimmy's on
> the roof and sees Arutha ride back into the city).
>

Yup.
Best, R.E.F.


Blimey, how excellent is that?!
Who did you say you're writing it with again? Me? <grins>

Mark ;-)



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Date: Fri, 5 Jul 2002 16:20:17 -0600
Subject: Re: OT: Other Authors
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 5 Jul 2002 16:20:17 -0600
Subject: Re: OT: Other Authors
From: Willard Black <wilblk@mac.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Thursday, July 4, 2002, at 02:38 PM, Gary Ponting wrote:

> Sorry for the OT: It is book related though!!
>
> I've just read and thoroughly enjoyed the Hornblower series by CS 
> Forester.
>
> I was wondering if anyone else has read the books or followed the 
> series on
> A&E. The series is roughly 10 books that follow the naval career of a 
> young
> Hornblower as he climbs in rank and fame. They are set in pre- and 
> Napoleon
> times.
>
> Anyway thought it was great and wished to share.
>
> ..gary
>



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sat, 6 Jul 2002 08:44:23 +1000
From: Paul Duthie <pduthie@ncable.net.au>
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Organization: dd Computing
To: Willard Black <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re[2]: OT: Other Authors
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Hello All

If you're interested in this time period, look for the Ramage series
by Dudley Pope and the Bolitho series by Alexander Kent (aka Douglas
Reeman)

Saturday, July 6, 2002, 8:20:17 AM, you wrote:


WB> On Thursday, July 4, 2002, at 02:38 PM, Gary Ponting wrote:

>> Sorry for the OT: It is book related though!!
>>
>> I've just read and thoroughly enjoyed the Hornblower series by CS 
>> Forester.
>>
>> I was wondering if anyone else has read the books or followed the 
>> series on
>> A&E. The series is roughly 10 books that follow the naval career of a 
>> young
>> Hornblower as he climbs in rank and fame. They are set in pre- and 
>> Napoleon
>> times.
>>
>> Anyway thought it was great and wished to share.
>>
>> ..gary
>>



-- 
Best regards,
 Paul                            mailto:pduthie@ncable.net.au



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From: "Cameron Duncan" <cduncan@atinera.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Magician 20th Anniversary edition
Date: Sat, 6 Jul 2002 13:48:04 +1000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Cameron Duncan" <cduncan@atinera.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Magician 20th Anniversary edition
Date: Sat, 6 Jul 2002 13:48:04 +1000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Ray,

I was just wondering if you know whether Harper Collins have decided on the
artwork for the 20th anniversary hardback yet?
It seems strange that no details are up on any sites yet, with the release
being so close?  Usually Amazon have the details weeks, if not months in
advance -
eg Talon.

regards,

Cameron



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From: Chris Vance <pikachu_chris@yahoo.com.sg>
Subject: Re: Magician 20th Anniversary edition
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 5 Jul 2002 21:39:12 -0700 (PDT)
From: Chris Vance <pikachu_chris@yahoo.com.sg>
Subject: Re: Magician 20th Anniversary edition
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Dear Ray,

Just a thought... What about reprinting the original
DJ but in black and silver emboss outline of the
dragon. Man that would look really cool. 

Chris Ivan Ang
--- Cameron Duncan <cduncan@atinera.com.au> wrote:
> Ray,
> 
> I was just wondering if you know whether Harper
> Collins have decided on the
> artwork for the 20th anniversary hardback yet?
> It seems strange that no details are up on any sites
> yet, with the release
> being so close?  Usually Amazon have the details
> weeks, if not months in
> advance -
> eg Talon.
> 
> regards,
> 
> Cameron
> 


=====
The Brainless

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Sign up for SBC Yahoo! Dial - First Month Free
http://sbc.yahoo.com



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 5 Jul 2002 22:48:27 -0700
Subject: Re: Magician 20th Anniversary edition
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Friday, July 5, 2002, at 08:48 PM, Cameron Duncan wrote:

> Ray,
>
> I was just wondering if you know whether Harper Collins have decided on 
> the
> artwork for the 20th anniversary hardback yet?
> It seems strange that no details are up on any sites yet, with the 
> release
> being so close?  Usually Amazon have the details weeks, if not months in
> advance -
> eg Talon.
>
> regards,
>
> Cameron
>
>
>
>

I have no idea what they're doing re: the cover.  I know it's something 
along the lines of a shield from Crydee or something along those lines.

I know it'll contain a few interior illos, though.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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From: "Magnus Arvidsson" <magnus.arvidsson75@telia.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
References: <001c01c2249f$eeacfeb0$570199a8@atinera.com.au>
Subject: Re: Magician 20th Anniversary edition
Date: Sat, 6 Jul 2002 13:05:20 +0200
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From: "Magnus Arvidsson" <magnus.arvidsson75@telia.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Magician 20th Anniversary edition
Date: Sat, 6 Jul 2002 13:05:20 +0200
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Hi people!
I must ask: What's the deal with this anniversary edition? Is it a limited
edition?
How do I order? ANy info would be greatly appreciated. =)

Sincerely

Magnus

> Ray,
>
> I was just wondering if you know whether Harper Collins have decided on the
> artwork for the 20th anniversary hardback yet?
> It seems strange that no details are up on any sites yet, with the release
> being so close?  Usually Amazon have the details weeks, if not months in
> advance -
> eg Talon.
>
> regards,
>
> Cameron
>
>



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From: "Greg Bulloch" <somedude1_2000@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Merchandising was Re: Magician 20th Anniversary edition
Date: Sat, 06 Jul 2002 21:59:55 +1000
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From: "Greg Bulloch" <somedude1_2000@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Merchandising was Re: Magician 20th Anniversary edition
Date: Sat, 06 Jul 2002 21:59:55 +1000
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i remember talks of a REF illustrated book
or a full illustrated atlas or something
a glossy fold out map full color of all the places would be cool
can we expect any extra merchandising at any of the book signings?


>From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: Re: Magician 20th Anniversary edition
>Date: Fri, 5 Jul 2002 22:48:27 -0700
>
>
>On Friday, July 5, 2002, at 08:48 PM, Cameron Duncan wrote:
>
>>Ray,
>>
>>I was just wondering if you know whether Harper Collins have decided on
>>the
>>artwork for the 20th anniversary hardback yet?
>>It seems strange that no details are up on any sites yet, with the
>>release
>>being so close?  Usually Amazon have the details weeks, if not months in
>>advance -
>>eg Talon.
>>
>>regards,
>>
>>Cameron
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>I have no idea what they're doing re: the cover.  I know it's something
>along the lines of a shield from Crydee or something along those lines.
>
>I know it'll contain a few interior illos, though.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
>stupidity.
>




_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com



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From: "Greg Bulloch" <somedude1_2000@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Magician 20th Anniversary edition
Date: Sat, 06 Jul 2002 22:13:40 +1000
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From: "Greg Bulloch" <somedude1_2000@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Magician 20th Anniversary edition
Date: Sat, 06 Jul 2002 22:13:40 +1000
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  it acknowledges 20 years since magician was first published:)
you can order it n amazon when it comes out in september sometime i dont 
know exact date im sure someone else does
as far as i know its not limited although the hardback version will be
the 20th anniversay paperback will replace the 10th anniversary one in 
stores from now on


>From: "Magnus Arvidsson" <magnus.arvidsson75@telia.com>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
>Subject: Re: Magician 20th Anniversary edition
>Date: Sat, 6 Jul 2002 13:05:20 +0200
>
>Hi people!
>I must ask: What's the deal with this anniversary edition? Is it a limited
>edition?
>How do I order? ANy info would be greatly appreciated. =)
>
>Sincerely
>
>Magnus
>
> > Ray,
> >
> > I was just wondering if you know whether Harper Collins have decided on
>the
> > artwork for the 20th anniversary hardback yet?
> > It seems strange that no details are up on any sites yet, with the 
>release
> > being so close?  Usually Amazon have the details weeks, if not months in
> > advance -
> > eg Talon.
> >
> > regards,
> >
> > Cameron
> >
> >




_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx



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From: "Bruce Stedman" <bjs@bjs.org.uk>
To: <fEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: The UK part of the Tour (Bristol)
Date: Sat, 6 Jul 2002 13:37:04 +0100
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From: "Bruce Stedman" <bjs@bjs.org.uk>
To: <fEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: The UK part of the Tour (Bristol)
Date: Sat, 6 Jul 2002 13:37:04 +0100
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Looking forwards to the 12th in Bristol, but my, do you have some miles to
do, in order to get to Edinburgh for the evening.
Can't be nice having a lunch appointment and an evening appointment with a
plane flight in between.

I'm emailing Blackwells, Bristol with some questions. If anyone else from
the list might attend, then please email me off list and I shall give you
their answers (and directions)

BJS

PS - I've just spotted the new cover for Faerie Tale - nice.


-----Original Message-----
>From: Raymond Feist [mailto:raymond@bittersea.com]
>Sent: 03 July 2002 17:52
>To: fEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: The UK part of the Tour
>
>
>This is the 1st info I have and don't ask me specific locations, as I have
>no idea where these places are.
>
>I'll post more up-to-date info when I get it.
>
>Monday 9 September
>Lunch signing at Hammicks, Harrow 12.30-1.30pm
>
>Evening event at Borders, Oxford Street, WC1 7.00pm
>
>
>
>Tuesday 10 September
>Lunch signing at Hammicks, Basingstoke 12.30-1.30pm
>
>
>Wednesday 11 September
>
>Evening event at Ottakar’s Milton Keynes 6.30pm
>
>Thursday 12 September
>Lunch signing at Blackwell’s Bristol 12.30-1.30pm
>
>Evening event at Waterstone’s, West End, Edinburgh 7.00pm
>
>Friday 13 September
>Lunch signing with Ottakar’s, Sunderland 12.10-1.30pm
>Evening event at Waterstone’s, Manchester 7.00pm
>
>
>Saturday 14 September
>Lunch signing with Ottakar’s, Chelmsford 12.30-1.30pm
>
>Now, I post this for those of you local to those stores. I assume you'll be
>able to find the locations of those stores before I get that. Some things
>may be added, but for now these are pretty much set in stone, so I doubt
>anything will be canceled. The "events" btw are me yakin' for a half hour
>then signing, vs. just sitting down and signing.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
>stupidity.
>


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From: "Magnus Arvidsson" <magnus.arvidsson75@telia.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
References: <F140ocqvUZUw9oIgpW100003873@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Magician 20th Anniversary edition
Date: Sat, 6 Jul 2002 14:44:47 +0200
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Magnus Arvidsson" <magnus.arvidsson75@telia.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Magician 20th Anniversary edition
Date: Sat, 6 Jul 2002 14:44:47 +0200
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

=) ok thanks for the info. I did however know that it is 20 years since
Magician was first released. =) But now I don't have to worry that I won't
get a
copy of the 20th An. Ed. =)

Sincerely,

Magnus


>   it acknowledges 20 years since magician was first published:)
> you can order it n amazon when it comes out in september sometime i dont
> know exact date im sure someone else does
> as far as i know its not limited although the hardback version will be
> the 20th anniversay paperback will replace the 10th anniversary one in
> stores from now on
>
>
> >From: "Magnus Arvidsson" <magnus.arvidsson75@telia.com>
> >Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> >To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> >Subject: Re: Magician 20th Anniversary edition
> >Date: Sat, 6 Jul 2002 13:05:20 +0200
> >
> >Hi people!
> >I must ask: What's the deal with this anniversary edition? Is it a limited
> >edition?
> >How do I order? ANy info would be greatly appreciated. =)
> >
> >Sincerely
> >
> >Magnus
> >
> > > Ray,
> > >
> > > I was just wondering if you know whether Harper Collins have decided on
> >the
> > > artwork for the 20th anniversary hardback yet?
> > > It seems strange that no details are up on any sites yet, with the
> >release
> > > being so close?  Usually Amazon have the details weeks, if not months in
> > > advance -
> > > eg Talon.
> > >
> > > regards,
> > >
> > > Cameron
> > >
> > >
>
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
> http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
>
>



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From: "Dave White" <dave@davewhite.net>
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References: <001c01c2249f$eeacfeb0$570199a8@atinera.com.au>
Subject: Re: Magician 20th Anniversary edition
Date: Sat, 6 Jul 2002 13:56:23 +0100
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Dave White" <dave@davewhite.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Magician 20th Anniversary edition
Date: Sat, 6 Jul 2002 13:56:23 +0100
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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My god is it THAT long ago???  I must be getting old.  Magician was my first
introduction to fantasy, and one of the only books that I've ever HAD to
read in a single sitting.  It was a long weekend ;-)

Dave

----- Original Message -----
From: "Cameron Duncan" <cduncan@atinera.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Saturday, July 06, 2002 4:48 AM
Subject: Magician 20th Anniversary edition


> Ray,
>
> I was just wondering if you know whether Harper Collins have decided on the
> artwork for the 20th anniversary hardback yet?
> It seems strange that no details are up on any sites yet, with the release
> being so close?  Usually Amazon have the details weeks, if not months in
> advance -
> eg Talon.
>
> regards,
>
> Cameron
>
>
>



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Date: Sat, 6 Jul 2002 08:21:52 -0700
Subject: Re: Merchandising was Re: Magician 20th Anniversary edition
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sat, 6 Jul 2002 08:21:52 -0700
Subject: Re: Merchandising was Re: Magician 20th Anniversary edition
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Saturday, July 6, 2002, at 04:59 AM, Greg Bulloch wrote:

> i remember talks of a REF illustrated book
> or a full illustrated atlas or something
> a glossy fold out map full color of all the places would be cool
> can we expect any extra merchandising at any of the book signings?
>

No.

You're thinking of the Atlas which is a project on hold until I get some 
serious business issues resolved with Avon and some personal issues 
resolved with the IRS.

Best,R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Date: Sat, 6 Jul 2002 08:23:06 -0700
Subject: Re: Magician 20th Anniversary edition
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sat, 6 Jul 2002 08:23:06 -0700
Subject: Re: Magician 20th Anniversary edition
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Saturday, July 6, 2002, at 05:13 AM, Greg Bulloch wrote:

>  it acknowledges 20 years since magician was first published:)
> you can order it n amazon when it comes out in september sometime i 
> dont know exact date im sure someone else does
> as far as i know its not limited although the hardback version will be
> the 20th anniversay paperback will replace the 10th anniversary one in 
> stores from now on

Huh?

It's a limited run hardcover.  It's being published in the UK only by 
HarperCollins.  There will be a leather cover version, I have been 
told.  And the paperback will remain unchanged.

Best, R.E.F.
>
>
>> From: "Magnus Arvidsson" <magnus.arvidsson75@telia.com>
>> Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>> To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
>> Subject: Re: Magician 20th Anniversary edition
>> Date: Sat, 6 Jul 2002 13:05:20 +0200
>>
>> Hi people!
>> I must ask: What's the deal with this anniversary edition? Is it a 
>> limited
>> edition?
>> How do I order? ANy info would be greatly appreciated. =)
>>
>> Sincerely
>>
>> Magnus
>>
>> > Ray,
>> >
>> > I was just wondering if you know whether Harper Collins have decided 
>> on
>> the
>> > artwork for the 20th anniversary hardback yet?
>> > It seems strange that no details are up on any sites yet, with the 
>> release
>> > being so close?  Usually Amazon have the details weeks, if not 
>> months in
>> > advance -
>> > eg Talon.
>> >
>> > regards,
>> >
>> > Cameron
>> >
>> >
>
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
> http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
>
>
>
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Date: Sat, 6 Jul 2002 08:24:08 -0700
Subject: Re: The UK part of the Tour (Bristol)
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sat, 6 Jul 2002 08:24:08 -0700
Subject: Re: The UK part of the Tour (Bristol)
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Saturday, July 6, 2002, at 05:37 AM, Bruce Stedman wrote:

> Looking forwards to the 12th in Bristol, but my, do you have some miles 
> to
> do, in order to get to Edinburgh for the evening.
> Can't be nice having a lunch appointment and an evening appointment 
> with a
> plane flight in between.

It's a short flight.  Not a lot of real estate in the UK, compared to 
the US, my friend.

>
> I'm emailing Blackwells, Bristol with some questions. If anyone else 
> from
> the list might attend, then please email me off list and I shall give 
> you
> their answers (and directions)
>

New cover?  No one told me.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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From: "Magnus Arvidsson" <magnus.arvidsson75@telia.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
References: <456E2AA4-90F4-11D6-94B4-003065A8A644@bittersea.com>
Subject: Re: Magician 20th Anniversary edition
Date: Sat, 6 Jul 2002 17:46:25 +0200
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Magnus Arvidsson" <magnus.arvidsson75@telia.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Magician 20th Anniversary edition
Date: Sat, 6 Jul 2002 17:46:25 +0200
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

So Ray, the best option is to order directly from Harper (UK) if you want a
copy?
Or?


>
> On Saturday, July 6, 2002, at 05:13 AM, Greg Bulloch wrote:
>
> >  it acknowledges 20 years since magician was first published:)
> > you can order it n amazon when it comes out in september sometime i
> > dont know exact date im sure someone else does
> > as far as i know its not limited although the hardback version will be
> > the 20th anniversay paperback will replace the 10th anniversary one in
> > stores from now on
>
> Huh?
>
> It's a limited run hardcover.  It's being published in the UK only by
> HarperCollins.  There will be a leather cover version, I have been
> told.  And the paperback will remain unchanged.
>
> Best, R.E.F.
> >
> >
> >> From: "Magnus Arvidsson" <magnus.arvidsson75@telia.com>
> >> Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> >> To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> >> Subject: Re: Magician 20th Anniversary edition
> >> Date: Sat, 6 Jul 2002 13:05:20 +0200
> >>
> >> Hi people!
> >> I must ask: What's the deal with this anniversary edition? Is it a
> >> limited
> >> edition?
> >> How do I order? ANy info would be greatly appreciated. =)
> >>
> >> Sincerely
> >>
> >> Magnus
> >>
> >> > Ray,
> >> >
> >> > I was just wondering if you know whether Harper Collins have decided
> >> on
> >> the
> >> > artwork for the 20th anniversary hardback yet?
> >> > It seems strange that no details are up on any sites yet, with the
> >> release
> >> > being so close?  Usually Amazon have the details weeks, if not
> >> months in
> >> > advance -
> >> > eg Talon.
> >> >
> >> > regards,
> >> >
> >> > Cameron
> >> >
> >> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
> > http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
> >
> >
> >
> ----
>
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
> stupidity.
>
>



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Subject: Re: Magician 20th Anniversary edition
Date: Sun, 7 Jul 2002 03:03:14 +1000
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From: "RandmTask" <randmtask@optushome.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Magician 20th Anniversary edition
Date: Sun, 7 Jul 2002 03:03:14 +1000
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Raymond Feist" <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Sunday, July 07, 2002 1:23 AM
Subject: Re: Magician 20th Anniversary edition


>
> On Saturday, July 6, 2002, at 05:13 AM, Greg Bulloch wrote:
>
> >  it acknowledges 20 years since magician was first published:)
> > you can order it n amazon when it comes out in september sometime i
> > dont know exact date im sure someone else does
> > as far as i know its not limited although the hardback version will be
> > the 20th anniversay paperback will replace the 10th anniversary one in
> > stores from now on
>
> Huh?
>
> It's a limited run hardcover.  It's being published in the UK only by
> HarperCollins.  There will be a leather cover version, I have been
> told.  And the paperback will remain unchanged.
>
> Best, R.E.F.

<delurking after an absense of a few years>

Ray,

Does UK refer to both the UK/Australian market ?

I see Dymocks have it listed for $AU65 with no release date. This would
either be the leatherbound, or an import UK hardback I would presume, given
that since the Goods and Services Tax books can reach a staggering $45, but
I havent seen any above that price.

I guess at $65 ea I'll only be able to get 2 or 3 of them, not the 8 or 9
John is surely down for...

Deon O'Brien
--
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not
sure about the former." - Albert Einstein (1879-1955)



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From: "Paddyjack [ ]" <erykel@lycos.com>
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I just finished MiL this morning, and I enjoyed it very much. I was
not that sure at the beginning, but as the pages were turned these 3
characters became flesh in my mind and very interesting to follow. I
read you first five Guardian of the flame serie almost 20 years ago
Joel, so I did not recall how you play with characters (except for
Karl and Walter). I liked the unit these 3 form, and I wonder if they
are aware how much they complete each other. They are good
characters. Are these from Guardian of the Flame serie? I do not
recall seeing them. I may return to that serie to read more about
them. I laughed when Kethol was trying to pick a good line to say as a
cheers apart from his usual mercenary sentences :-)


Now, there was some things that make me wonder:

S

P

O

I

L

E

R

S

Is there something significant about the way Fantus entered the
Swordmaster's office? Pirojil is wondering about that in the end. 

Also, was there a hidden reason for the rangers to talk about the
snowshoes to Kethol?

Paddyjack


_____________________________________________________
Supercharge your e-mail with a 25MB Inbox, POP3 Access, No Ads
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To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
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Subject: Re: Which is the real 1st edition
Date: Sun, 7 Jul 2002 03:17:49 +1000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Deon O'Brien" <randmtask@optushome.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Which is the real 1st edition
Date: Sun, 7 Jul 2002 03:17:49 +1000
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Vance" <pikachu_chris@yahoo.com.sg>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, July 03, 2002 3:46 PM
Subject: Re: Which is the real 1st edition


> Arggh!!! Looks like I got to fork out more dough....
> It just seems that my collection is incomplete....
> Know what I mean?
>
> Worse still is that I only get the UK version in
> Singapore. Any good samaritans out there in the States
> who want to help me get my missing books??
>
> C.I.A

Chris,

Its a very expensive hobby :)

I regularly import books from the US to Australia. If you havent already,
try ebay for Ray's older stuff and also check out www.abebooks.com.

As someone else pointed out, you wont find some of Ray's early stuff cheap
(especially Magician US) and some not at any price (Magician: APE and
Magician UK), the latter being one of the ones Ive been looking for for
years.

Deon O'Brien
--
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not
sure about the former." - Albert Einstein (1879-1955)



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Subject: Re: Magician 20th Anniversary edition
Date: Sun, 7 Jul 2002 03:28:14 +1000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Deon O'Brien" <randmtask@optushome.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Magician 20th Anniversary edition
Date: Sun, 7 Jul 2002 03:28:14 +1000
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Vance" <pikachu_chris@yahoo.com.sg>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Saturday, July 06, 2002 2:39 PM
Subject: Re: Magician 20th Anniversary edition


> Dear Ray,
>
> Just a thought... What about reprinting the original
> DJ but in black and silver emboss outline of the
> dragon. Man that would look really cool.

Ray doesnt have any input on the covers, he leaves that up to the people
paid to maximise book sales, his publishers.

Just be thankful that it will be a HarperCollins cover you'll be looking at
and not a 'Rage of a Demon King' inspired Avon effort.

It may be whats inside that matters but that cover was just plain ...
different :)

Deon O'Brien
--
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not
sure about the former." - Albert Einstein (1879-1955)




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Date: Sat, 6 Jul 2002 10:31:44 -0700
Subject: Re: Magician 20th Anniversary edition
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On Saturday, July 6, 2002, at 10:03 AM, RandmTask wrote:

>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Raymond Feist" <raymond@bittersea.com>
> To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> Sent: Sunday, July 07, 2002 1:23 AM
> Subject: Re: Magician 20th Anniversary edition
>
>
>>
>> On Saturday, July 6, 2002, at 05:13 AM, Greg Bulloch wrote:
>>
>>>  it acknowledges 20 years since magician was first published:)
>>> you can order it n amazon when it comes out in september sometime i
>>> dont know exact date im sure someone else does
>>> as far as i know its not limited although the hardback version will be
>>> the 20th anniversay paperback will replace the 10th anniversary one in
>>> stores from now on
>>
>> Huh?
>>
>> It's a limited run hardcover.  It's being published in the UK only by
>> HarperCollins.  There will be a leather cover version, I have been
>> told.  And the paperback will remain unchanged.
>>
>> Best, R.E.F.
>
> <delurking after an absense of a few years>
>
> Ray,
>
> Does UK refer to both the UK/Australian market ?

UK and all export markets, including Oz.

Best, R.E.F.

----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Paddyjack [ ]
> Sent: Saturday, July 06, 2002 12:10 PM
> To: feistfans-l@cornell.edu
> Subject: Finished MiL (comments and spoilers)
>
>
> I just finished MiL this morning, and I enjoyed it very much. I
> was not that sure at the beginning, but as the pages were turned
> these 3 characters became flesh in my mind and very interesting
> to follow. I read you first five Guardian of the flame serie
> almost 20 years ago Joel, so I did not recall how you play with
> characters (except for Karl and Walter). I liked the unit these 3
> form, and I wonder if they are aware how much they complete each
> other. They are good characters. Are these from Guardian of the
> Flame serie? I do not recall seeing them.

They were minor characters in some of the, err, later early books, and have
been spun off to have their own books with the "Not..." cycle, from Tor.

> I may return to that
> serie to read more about them. I laughed when Kethol was trying
> to pick a good line to say as a cheers apart from his usual
> mercenary sentences :-)
>
>
> Now, there was some things that make me wonder:
>
> S
>
> P
>
> O
>
> I
>
> L
>
> E
>
> R
>
> S
>
> Is there something significant about the way Fantus entered the
> Swordmaster's office? Pirojil is wondering about that in the end.

I don't think so; but it has been bothering him for part of the book, and
while he's used to loose ends, he doesn't like them much.

>
> Also, was there a hidden reason for the rangers to talk about the
> snowshoes to Kethol?
>

Not that I know of.

> Paddyjack
>
>
> _____________________________________________________
> Supercharge your e-mail with a 25MB Inbox, POP3 Access, No Ads
> and NoTaglines --> LYCOS MAIL PLUS.
> http://www.mail.lycos.com/brandPage.shtml?pageId=plus
>
>



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From: "Eric A. Bonney" <eric.bonney@fuse.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Looking for Riftwar Saga in e-book format?
Date: Sat, 6 Jul 2002 14:13:35 -0400
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Eric A. Bonney" <eric.bonney@fuse.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Looking for Riftwar Saga in e-book format?
Date: Sat, 6 Jul 2002 14:13:35 -0400
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I noticed on a web site that some of his books have been printed in e-book
format.  Does anyone know if the beginning of the Riftwar Saga is in e-book
format?  If not does anyone know if he or his publishing company are
considering releasing them in this format?

Thanks,
-Eric




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From: "Cameron Duncan" <cduncan@atinera.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Which is the real 1st edition
Date: Sun, 7 Jul 2002 08:06:58 +1000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Cameron Duncan" <cduncan@atinera.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Which is the real 1st edition
Date: Sun, 7 Jul 2002 08:06:58 +1000
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<snip>
>
> Its a very expensive hobby :)
>
> I regularly import books from the US to Australia. If you havent already,
> try ebay for Ray's older stuff and also check out www.abebooks.com.
>
> As someone else pointed out, you wont find some of Ray's early stuff cheap
> (especially Magician US) and some not at any price (Magician: APE and
> Magician UK), the latter being one of the ones Ive been looking for for
> years.
>
> Deon O'Brien
> --
> "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity,
> and I'm not
> sure about the former." - Albert Einstein (1879-1955)
>

Gee, I thought I was the only one who paid a fortune for Ray's books in
Australia.
And considering our exchange rate, it really is a small fortune at times!!!
Hmmm, the elusive Magician UK hardcover..... I did see one once...in a
picture <g>

Cameron



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From: "Deon O'Brien" <randmtask@optushome.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
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Subject: Re: Which is the real 1st edition
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Deon O'Brien" <randmtask@optushome.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Which is the real 1st edition
Date: Sun, 7 Jul 2002 17:36:44 +1000
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Cameron Duncan" <cduncan@atinera.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Sunday, July 07, 2002 8:06 AM
Subject: RE: Which is the real 1st edition


> <snip>
> >
> > Its a very expensive hobby :)
> >
> > I regularly import books from the US to Australia. If you havent already,
> > try ebay for Ray's older stuff and also check out www.abebooks.com.
> >
> > As someone else pointed out, you wont find some of Ray's early stuff cheap
> > (especially Magician US) and some not at any price (Magician: APE and
> > Magician UK), the latter being one of the ones Ive been looking for for
> > years.
> >
> Gee, I thought I was the only one who paid a fortune for Ray's books in
> Australia.
> And considering our exchange rate, it really is a small fortune at times!!!
> Hmmm, the elusive Magician UK hardcover..... I did see one once...in a
> picture <g>
>
> Cameron

Unfortunately Magician was never released in hardback in Australia, along
with Silverthorn and aDaS IIRC.

The chances of finding Magician and Silverthorn and completing my collection
(well the UK part of it anyway) doesnt look good!



Deon O'Brien
--
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not
sure about the former." - Albert Einstein (1879-1955)



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From: "Bruce Stedman" <bjs@bjs.org.uk>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: The UK part of the Tour (Bristol)
Date: Sun, 7 Jul 2002 13:29:42 +0100
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Bruce Stedman" <bjs@bjs.org.uk>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: The UK part of the Tour (Bristol)
Date: Sun, 7 Jul 2002 13:29:42 +0100
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With the figure on the horse and the car coming. I've got a spider creature
on mine.
OK - so it's the 2001 edition, which is just new to me!

http://www.crydee.com/feist/isbn/uk/isbn_uk_ot.html

BJS

-----Original Message-----
>From: Raymond Feist [mailto:raymond@bittersea.com]
>Sent: 06 July 2002 16:24
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: Re: The UK part of the Tour (Bristol)
>
>
>
>On Saturday, July 6, 2002, at 05:37 AM, Bruce Stedman wrote:
>
>> Looking forwards to the 12th in Bristol, but my, do you have some miles
>> to
>> do, in order to get to Edinburgh for the evening.
>> Can't be nice having a lunch appointment and an evening appointment
>> with a
>> plane flight in between.
>
>It's a short flight.  Not a lot of real estate in the UK, compared to
>the US, my friend.
>
>>
>> I'm emailing Blackwells, Bristol with some questions. If anyone else
>> from
>> the list might attend, then please email me off list and I shall give
>> you
>> their answers (and directions)
>>
>
>New cover?  No one told me.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
>stupidity.
>


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From: Chris Vance <pikachu_chris@yahoo.com.sg>
Subject: Re: Which is the real 1st edition
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sun, 7 Jul 2002 06:57:16 -0700 (PDT)
From: Chris Vance <pikachu_chris@yahoo.com.sg>
Subject: Re: Which is the real 1st edition
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Money is not an issue so long as I can finish my
collection. I just sold off my entire CCG collection
(including a few worth a hundred or so) and that will
be my capital to buy a few more. I scrounged around
and found a few places where I can get my hands on
hardcover silverthorns. Hopefully once I get my hands
on them, I can get Ray to autograph them for me. Only
need 2 more hardcovers to complete the collection.
Also have a few extras as I wasn't satisfied with the
condition of the books. 

If interested please email me directly. Would be
better if you were in the Australiasia region as my
family is based in Singapore, Malaysia and Australia,
Brisbane.

Chris Ivan Ang.
--- Deon O'Brien <randmtask@optushome.com.au> wrote:
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Cameron Duncan" <cduncan@atinera.com.au>
> To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> Sent: Sunday, July 07, 2002 8:06 AM
> Subject: RE: Which is the real 1st edition
> 
> 
> > <snip>
> > >
> > > Its a very expensive hobby :)
> > >
> > > I regularly import books from the US to
> Australia. If you havent
> already,
> > > try ebay for Ray's older stuff and also check
> out www.abebooks.com.
> > >
> > > As someone else pointed out, you wont find some
> of Ray's early stuff
> cheap
> > > (especially Magician US) and some not at any
> price (Magician: APE and
> > > Magician UK), the latter being one of the ones
> Ive been looking for for
> > > years.
> > >
> > Gee, I thought I was the only one who paid a
> fortune for Ray's books in
> > Australia.
> > And considering our exchange rate, it really is a
> small fortune at
> times!!!
> > Hmmm, the elusive Magician UK hardcover..... I did
> see one once...in a
> > picture <g>
> >
> > Cameron
> 
> Unfortunately Magician was never released in
> hardback in Australia, along
> with Silverthorn and aDaS IIRC.
> 
> The chances of finding Magician and Silverthorn and
> completing my collection
> (well the UK part of it anyway) doesnt look good!
> 
> 
> 
> Deon O'Brien
> --
> "Only two things are infinite, the universe and
> human stupidity, and I'm not
> sure about the former." - Albert Einstein
> (1879-1955)
> 


=====
The Brainless

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com



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Date: Sun, 7 Jul 2002 08:54:17 -0700
Subject: Re: The UK part of the Tour (Bristol)
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sun, 7 Jul 2002 08:54:17 -0700
Subject: Re: The UK part of the Tour (Bristol)
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Sunday, July 7, 2002, at 05:29 AM, Bruce Stedman wrote:

> With the figure on the horse and the car coming. I've got a spider 
> creature
> on mine.
> OK - so it's the 2001 edition, which is just new to me!
>
> http://www.crydee.com/feist/isbn/uk/isbn_uk_ot.html
>
> BJS
>
Now I remember.  They did send me a copy, but I was in the thick of a 
move to a new house, so I completely forgot about it.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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From: "M Chaloner" <markchaloner@btinternet.com>
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Subject: UK covers - was [re: The UK part of the Tour (Bristol)]
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*** EOOH ***
From: "M Chaloner" <markchaloner@btinternet.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: UK covers - was [re: The UK part of the Tour (Bristol)]
Date: Sun, 7 Jul 2002 19:01:22 +0100
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>> On Sunday, July 7, 2002, at 05:29 AM, Bruce Stedman wrote:
>> With the figure on the horse and the car coming. I've got a spider 
>> creature
>> on mine.
>> OK - so it's the 2001 edition, which is just new to me!
>> http://www.crydee.com/feist/isbn/uk/isbn_uk_ot.html
>> BJS
>>
>Now I remember.  They did send me a copy, but I was in the thick of a 
>move to a new house, so I completely forgot about it.
>Best, R.E.F.
>

I love the new UK covers of the Empire series, but I can't stand the new
cover of Faerie Tale. Ah well, each to his own.

Mark ;-)



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Subject: Re: UK covers - was [re: The UK part of the Tour (Bristol)]
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Magnus Arvidsson" <magnus.arvidsson75@telia.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: UK covers - was [re: The UK part of the Tour (Bristol)]
Date: Sun, 7 Jul 2002 20:35:05 +0200
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MY thoughts on cover art. Almost all of the fantasy cover art from the US
publishers
are bad. Yeah, I know.. not ALL, but generally too much color and loony
details..
The UK cover art tends to be more smoothly done, nicer and more realistic.
More tasteful.
Geoff Taylor creates wonderful cover art! This just my taste... but the
Harlequin-Love-novel-cover-art-look-alike just looks cheap. =)

Ray's books have had very nice cover art over-all. (some exceptions perhaps)

Sincerely,

Magnus


OBSERVE: This is what I think. Don't tell me that I am wrong, tell me that
you disagree. (and thus admit
that you like cheap looking cover art)  a joke


> > On Sunday, July 7, 2002, at 05:29 AM, Bruce Stedman wrote:
> > With the figure on the horse and the car coming. I've got a spider
> > creature
> > on mine.
> > OK - so it's the 2001 edition, which is just new to me!
> > http://www.crydee.com/feist/isbn/uk/isbn_uk_ot.html
> > BJS
> >
> Now I remember.  They did send me a copy, but I was in the thick of a
> move to a new house, so I completely forgot about it.
> Best, R.E.F.
>
>
> I love the new UK covers of the Empire series, but I can't stand the new
> cover of Faerie Tale. Ah well, each to his own.
>
> Mark ;-)
>
>



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From: "Cameron Duncan" <cduncan@atinera.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: UK covers - was [re: The UK part of the Tour (Bristol)]
Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 08:29:38 +1000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Cameron Duncan" <cduncan@atinera.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: UK covers - was [re: The UK part of the Tour (Bristol)]
Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 08:29:38 +1000
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Magnus Arvidsson
> Sent: Monday, July 08, 2002 4:35 AM
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Subject: Re: UK covers - was [re: The UK part of the Tour (Bristol)]
>
>
> MY thoughts on cover art. Almost all of the fantasy cover art from the US
> publishers
> are bad. Yeah, I know.. not ALL, but generally too much color and loony
> details..
> The UK cover art tends to be more smoothly done, nicer and more realistic.
> More tasteful.
> Geoff Taylor creates wonderful cover art! This just my taste... but the
> Harlequin-Love-novel-cover-art-look-alike just looks cheap. =)
>
> Ray's books have had very nice cover art over-all. (some
> exceptions perhaps)
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Magnus
>
>
> OBSERVE: This is what I think. Don't tell me that I am wrong, tell me that
> you disagree. (and thus admit
> that you like cheap looking cover art)  a joke
>

Personally, I liked all of the US art up until Rise.  So much so that I just
had to buy the Don Maitz prints of Magician Apprentice APE and
Silverthorn.... now
if only I could afford to frame them. <g>
I have always liked the UK artwork by Geoff Taylor, and in fact, some
15 years or so ago, it was the UK cover of A Darkness at Sethanon that
caught
my attention in a bookstore and started me reading Ray's books.

Cameron



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From: "Cameron Duncan" <cduncan@atinera.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Which is the real 1st edition
Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 08:30:01 +1000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Cameron Duncan" <cduncan@atinera.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Which is the real 1st edition
Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 08:30:01 +1000
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<snip>

> Unfortunately Magician was never released in hardback in Australia, along
> with Silverthorn and aDaS IIRC.
>
> The chances of finding Magician and Silverthorn and completing my
> collection
> (well the UK part of it anyway) doesnt look good!
>
>
>
> Deon O'Brien
> --
> "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity,
> and I'm not
> sure about the former." - Albert Einstein (1879-1955)
>

I guess I must have been lucky - I managed very early on to find a UK
hardback copy of Silverthorn in good condition for $6.00 au.  To think I
nearly passed up on it!!!
It took nearly 2 years to find a UK hardback copy of Darkness, and it cost
me
a fortune - probably balances out the Silverthorn find....kind of a book
buying karma <g>
Whilst I haven't given up hope of finding a UK hardback of Magician, I don't
think it's
likely.  At least I managed to find Trade Paperbacks of all three covers
including a
mint copy of the original Neil Breedon (spelling?) cover.
And then there's the opportunity to stock up on 20th Anniversary hardbacks
<bg>

Cameron



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From: "Rob Kolech" <feistfan@rogers.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Magician 20th Anniversary edition
Date: Sun, 7 Jul 2002 22:27:12 -0400
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From: "Rob Kolech" <feistfan@rogers.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Magician 20th Anniversary edition
Date: Sun, 7 Jul 2002 22:27:12 -0400
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Found the 20th anniversary edition on amazon.co.uk, here is the link:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0007134118/qid=1026094897/sr=2-2/re
f=sr_2_3_2/202-5642383-7951045

The price is about the same as most other hardbacks.
The Listed publisher is Voyager (not Harper Collins) does anyone know if
this is the LEATHER bound version or is it something else?  Thanks


Rob K.



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From: "Terri Lyn Layman" <terrilyn@fullnet.com>
To: "FeistList \(E-mail\)" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: $1.50 *g*
Date: Sun, 7 Jul 2002 23:56:27 -0500
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From: "Terri Lyn Layman" <terrilyn@fullnet.com>
To: "FeistList \(E-mail\)" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: $1.50 *g*
Date: Sun, 7 Jul 2002 23:56:27 -0500
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Er, somewhere around there...

Working my book collection out of the realm of "College Poor and Spotty".

Just bought Daughter.  (Stupid store didn't have Silverthorn!  Must go
Amazoning!)

I guess that now that I can afford to get new books, I feel like the author
should somehow get more than the pittance per copy that he does.

*sigh*

Anyhow, don't go spending the whole $1.50 in one place Ray!  (And I PROMISE
that I'm gonna get some more soon!  Amazon just announced free shipping on
orders over $49.00... I just *think* I may have to take them up on the
offer!  *g*)

-TerriLyn



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From: "James Holden" <james@globalvision.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Which is the real 1st edition
Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 13:18:08 +0100
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From: "James Holden" <james@globalvision.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Which is the real 1st edition
Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 13:18:08 +0100
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I have a copy of magician - orange cover, taller and wider than a soft
but its not the hard-back variety - what is the technical name for this
type of book?

-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Cameron Duncan
>Sent: 07 July 2002 23:30
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: RE: Which is the real 1st edition
>
>
><snip>
>
>> Unfortunately Magician was never released in hardback in Australia, 
>> along with Silverthorn and aDaS IIRC.
>>
>> The chances of finding Magician and Silverthorn and completing my 
>> collection (well the UK part of it anyway) doesnt look good!
>>
>>
>>
>> Deon O'Brien
>> --
>> "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and 
>> I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein (1879-1955)
>>
>
>I guess I must have been lucky - I managed very early on to find a UK
>hardback copy of Silverthorn in good condition for $6.00 au.  To think I
>nearly passed up on it!!!
>It took nearly 2 years to find a UK hardback copy of Darkness, and it
>cost
>me
>a fortune - probably balances out the Silverthorn find....kind of a book
>buying karma <g>
>Whilst I haven't given up hope of finding a UK hardback of Magician, I
>don't
>think it's
>likely.  At least I managed to find Trade Paperbacks of all three covers
>including a
>mint copy of the original Neil Breedon (spelling?) cover.
>And then there's the opportunity to stock up on 20th Anniversary
>hardbacks
><bg>
>
>Cameron

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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: Kenneth Jones <killkenny@thos.co.za>
Subject: RE: Which is the real 1st edition
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 14:22:40 +0200
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: Kenneth Jones <killkenny@thos.co.za>
Subject: RE: Which is the real 1st edition
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Trade Paperback

At 01:18 PM 7/8/02 +0100, you wrote:
>I have a copy of magician - orange cover, taller and wider than a soft
>but its not the hard-back variety - what is the technical name for this
>type of book?
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Cameron Duncan
>Sent: 07 July 2002 23:30
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: RE: Which is the real 1st edition
>
>
><snip>
>
> > Unfortunately Magician was never released in hardback in Australia,
> > along with Silverthorn and aDaS IIRC.
> >
> > The chances of finding Magician and Silverthorn and completing my
> > collection (well the UK part of it anyway) doesnt look good!
> >
> >
> >
> > Deon O'Brien
> > --
> > "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and
> > I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein (1879-1955)
> >
>
>I guess I must have been lucky - I managed very early on to find a UK
>hardback copy of Silverthorn in good condition for $6.00 au.  To think I
>nearly passed up on it!!!
>It took nearly 2 years to find a UK hardback copy of Darkness, and it
>cost
>me
>a fortune - probably balances out the Silverthorn find....kind of a book
>buying karma <g>
>Whilst I haven't given up hope of finding a UK hardback of Magician, I
>don't
>think it's
>likely.  At least I managed to find Trade Paperbacks of all three covers
>including a
>mint copy of the original Neil Breedon (spelling?) cover.
>And then there's the opportunity to stock up on 20th Anniversary
>hardbacks
><bg>
>
>Cameron



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References: <000d01c22605$d5687580$570199a8@atinera.com.au>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20020708142223.030a1480@elvandar.thos.co.za>
Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 22:31:44 +1000
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From: TeckerDaze <teckerdaze@cqnet.com.au>
Subject: RE: Which is the real 1st edition
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 22:31:44 +1000
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: TeckerDaze <teckerdaze@cqnet.com.au>
Subject: RE: Which is the real 1st edition
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I've also heard it called a Bookclub Edition...


>Trade Paperback
>
>At 01:18 PM 7/8/02 +0100, you wrote:
>>I have a copy of magician - orange cover, taller and wider than a soft
>>but its not the hard-back variety - what is the technical name for this
>>type of book?
>>



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From: Michael Gibson <gibbyfish@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: Which is the real 1st edition
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 15:40:49 +0100 (BST)
From: Michael Gibson <gibbyfish@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: Which is the real 1st edition
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Typically BCEs are small format hard backs.

> I've also heard it called a Bookclub Edition...
> 
> 
> >Trade Paperback
> >
> >At 01:18 PM 7/8/02 +0100, you wrote:
> >>I have a copy of magician - orange cover, taller and wider than a
> soft
> >>but its not the hard-back variety - what is the technical name
> for this
> >>type of book?




====Mike,
Gibfish of Faringdonia

"I meant, have you ploughed the ocean waves at all?"
Colon gave him a cunning look.
"Ah, you can't catch me with that one, sir," he said.  "Everyone knows the horses would sink."

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From: Andrea J Chee <andrea@bloodaxe.com>
Subject: Re: Which is the real 1st edition
References: <000d01c22605$d5687580$570199a8@atinera.com.au>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20020708142223.030a1480@elvandar.thos.co.za>
 <a05100302b94f3681d10d@[203.47.200.102]>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 15:50:47 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: Andrea J Chee <andrea@bloodaxe.com>
Subject: Re: Which is the real 1st edition
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

In article <a05100302b94f3681d10d@[203.47.200.102]>, TeckerDaze
<teckerdaze@cqnet.com.au> writes
>I've also heard it called a Bookclub Edition...

Perhaps it's different in Australia, but IIRC here bookclub editions are
those printed especially for a book club and can be either softback or
hardback. I have plenty of hardback bookclub editions on my shelves.

- ANDREA

-- 
^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^
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From: Chris Vance <pikachu_chris@yahoo.com.sg>
Subject: Anyone own a copy of the 1st Edition UK Magician HC.
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 07:55:04 -0700 (PDT)
From: Chris Vance <pikachu_chris@yahoo.com.sg>
Subject: Anyone own a copy of the 1st Edition UK Magician HC.
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Dear all,

i have exhausted my resources trying to find a copy of
the elusive copy of the 1st Edition UK Magician
Hardcover. I was beginning to give it up as a myth
till lo and behold I found one tucked far within the
Oxford Library. My question now is does anybody else
own a copy?

(Not including you Mr. Feist as I'm quite certain you
probably have one of each of your own books as a
momento.)

Chris Ivan Ang

P.S

What's the Diff between 1st ED 2nd Print and 1st ED
1st Print..... Is there even such a thing???? Please Enlighten.

=====
The Brainless

__________________________________________________
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From: "James Holden" <james@globalvision.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Which is the real 1st edition
Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 16:22:10 +0100
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From: "James Holden" <james@globalvision.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Which is the real 1st edition
Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 16:22:10 +0100
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Thanks.

I've never really looked at the cover jackets for the non-uk versions,
after looking I have to say that the U.S versions are really bad (IMO of
course).  Some of the more recent releases look like they could have
been printed years ago. RoaDK is really bad.  Can I ask why the covers
are changed from US to UK - I understand the need in instances for
foreign language ones.

Jim 

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Kenneth Jones
Sent: 08 July 2002 13:23
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: RE: Which is the real 1st edition


Trade Paperback

At 01:18 PM 7/8/02 +0100, you wrote:
>I have a copy of magician - orange cover, taller and wider than a soft 
>but its not the hard-back variety - what is the technical name for this
>type of book?
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu 
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Cameron Duncan
>Sent: 07 July 2002 23:30
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: RE: Which is the real 1st edition
>
>
><snip>
>
> > Unfortunately Magician was never released in hardback in Australia, 
> > along with Silverthorn and aDaS IIRC.
> >
> > The chances of finding Magician and Silverthorn and completing my 
> > collection (well the UK part of it anyway) doesnt look good!
> >
> >
> >
> > Deon O'Brien
> > --
> > "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and
> > I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein (1879-1955)
> >
>
>I guess I must have been lucky - I managed very early on to find a UK 
>hardback copy of Silverthorn in good condition for $6.00 au.  To think 
>I nearly passed up on it!!! It took nearly 2 years to find a UK 
>hardback copy of Darkness, and it cost
>me
>a fortune - probably balances out the Silverthorn find....kind of a book
>buying karma <g>
>Whilst I haven't given up hope of finding a UK hardback of Magician, I
>don't
>think it's
>likely.  At least I managed to find Trade Paperbacks of all three covers
>including a
>mint copy of the original Neil Breedon (spelling?) cover.
>And then there's the opportunity to stock up on 20th Anniversary
>hardbacks
><bg>
>
>Cameron



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Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 09:23:51 -0700
Subject: Re: Anyone own a copy of the 1st Edition UK Magician HC.
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Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 09:23:51 -0700
Subject: Re: Anyone own a copy of the 1st Edition UK Magician HC.
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Monday, July 8, 2002, at 07:55 AM, Chris Vance wrote:

> Dear all,
>
> i have exhausted my resources trying to find a copy of
> the elusive copy of the 1st Edition UK Magician
> Hardcover. I was beginning to give it up as a myth
> till lo and behold I found one tucked far within the
> Oxford Library. My question now is does anybody else
> own a copy?
>
> (Not including you Mr. Feist as I'm quite certain you
> probably have one of each of your own books as a
> momento.)
>
> Chris Ivan Ang
>
> P.S
>
> What's the Diff between 1st ED 2nd Print and 1st ED
> 1st Print..... Is there even such a thing???? Please Enlighten.
>

The term "first edition" is often used interchangeably with "first 
printing."  A book can go back to press many times, Silverthorn is in 
something like the 33rd printing.  A 2nd edition is either 1) a changed 
text, revision so technically the Author's Preferred Edition of Magician 
is a 2nd edition or 2) a reissue of a book that has previously gone out 
of print.

For the collector, a "true" 1st edition is 1st printing of the 1st 
edition.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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From: John <john@crydee.com>
Subject: Re: Anyone own a copy of the 1st Edition UK Magician HC.
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 18:35:17 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: John <john@crydee.com>
Subject: Re: Anyone own a copy of the 1st Edition UK Magician HC.
User-Agent: Turnpike/6.01-U (<x5sqXV$6+zj$GDJXMMY4QwhIW3>)
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Chris Vance <pikachu_chris@yahoo.com.sg> writes
>Dear all,
>
>i have exhausted my resources trying to find a copy of
>the elusive copy of the 1st Edition UK Magician
>Hardcover. I was beginning to give it up as a myth
>till lo and behold I found one tucked far within the
>Oxford Library. My question now is does anybody else
>own a copy?
>
Yup, I have 3 in various condition, to say hard to find is an 
understatement, expensive even for an ex library copy

-- 
John

john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.

Raymond E Feist Ring
http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm



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Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 18:39:44 +0100
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From: John <john@crydee.com>
Subject: Re: Magician 20th Anniversary edition
References: <001c01c2249f$eeacfeb0$570199a8@atinera.com.au>
 <FE0C1F16-90A3-11D6-9F78-003065A8A644@bittersea.com>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 18:39:44 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: John <john@crydee.com>
Subject: Re: Magician 20th Anniversary edition
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Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com> writes
>>
>>
>
>I have no idea what they're doing re: the cover.  I know it's something 
>along the lines of a shield from Crydee or something along those lines.
>
>I know it'll contain a few interior illos, though.
>
>Best, R.E.F.


Hi Ray do you know who is doing the illustrations ?
-- 
John

john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.

Raymond E Feist Ring
http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm



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Subject: Re: Magician 20th Anniversary edition
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 13:31:04 -0700
Subject: Re: Magician 20th Anniversary edition
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Monday, July 8, 2002, at 10:39 AM, John wrote:

> Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com> writes
>>>
>>>
>>
>> I have no idea what they're doing re: the cover.  I know it's 
>> something along the lines of a shield from Crydee or something along 
>> those lines.
>>
>> I know it'll contain a few interior illos, though.
>>
>> Best, R.E.F.
>
>
> Hi Ray do you know who is doing the illustrations ?
> -- John
>

Not that I can remember.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
content-class: urn:content-classes:message
Subject: Touring
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2002 09:06:45 +1000
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From: "Green, Brendan" <Brendan.Green@baycorpadvantage.com>
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Hi Ray,
 
I was just wondering if you are coming to Australia anytime in the
near future?  I've only signed up to the mailing list recently so I'm
sorry if you have already said.
 
All the best,
Brendan

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From: John <john@crydee.com>
Subject: Re: Magician 20th Anniversary edition
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 <A016B690-92B1-11D6-8727-003065A8A644@bittersea.com>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 22:52:30 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: John <john@crydee.com>
Subject: Re: Magician 20th Anniversary edition
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Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com> writes
>>
>> Hi Ray do you know who is doing the illustrations ?
>> -- John
>>
>
>Not that I can remember.
>
>Best, R.E.F.

Thanks Ray, have emailed Jane to see what I can find out :)
-- 
John

john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.

Raymond E Feist Ring
http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm



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From: "Cameron Duncan" <cduncan@atinera.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Touring
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2002 09:28:27 +1000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Cameron Duncan" <cduncan@atinera.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Touring
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2002 09:28:27 +1000
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There is a tour scheduled for September to time in with the release of the
new book Talon of the Silver Hawk and also the 20th anniversary release of
Magician.  The tentative dates listed below were posted by Ray in MAy, and
so may be subject to change -

September 9-14 UK (where I don't know.  With only five days, I suspect
it'll be the usual big stops, London, Manchester, Birmingham, etc.)

September 17th Perth

September 18th Adelaide

September 19th  Melbourne

September 21st -23rd Sydney

September 25th-26 Brisbane

September 28th Auckland

regards,

Cameron
-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On
>Behalf Of Green, Brendan
>Sent: Tuesday, July 09, 2002 9:07 AM
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: Touring
>
>
>Hi Ray,
>
>I was just wondering if you are coming to Australia anytime in the near
>future?
>I've only signed up to the mailing list recently so I'm sorry if you have
>already said.
>
>All the best,
>Brendan
>


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Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 18:07:58 -0700
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 18:07:58 -0700
Subject: Re: Touring
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Monday, July 8, 2002, at 04:06 PM, Green, Brendan wrote:

> Hi Ray,
>  
> I was just wondering if you are coming to Australia anytime in the near 
> future?
> I've only signed up to the mailing list recently so I'm sorry if you 
> have already said.
>  
> All the best,
> Brendan
>
>

I'll be Downunder in September.  Locations, dates and times to be 
announced.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.

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Subject: RE: Touring
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From: "Green, Brendan" <Brendan.Green@baycorpadvantage.com>
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*** EOOH ***
content-class: urn:content-classes:message
Subject: RE: Touring
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2002 11:44:00 +1000
Thread-Topic: Touring
Thread-Index: AcIm6U1Dasr5A08eStaTAdGUNEmUqAAALT3Q
From: "Green, Brendan" <Brendan.Green@baycorpadvantage.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Thanks Ray, look forward to meeting you

Brendan

-----Original Message-----
>From: Raymond Feist [mailto:raymond@bittersea.com]
>Sent: Tuesday, 9 July 2002 11:08
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: Re: Touring
>
>
>
>On Monday, July 8, 2002, at 04:06 PM, Green, Brendan wrote: 
>
>
>> Hi Ray, 
>>   
>> I was just wondering if you are coming to Australia anytime in the near
>> future? 
>> I've only signed up to the mailing list recently so I'm sorry if you have
>> already said. 
>>   
>> All the best, 
>> Brendan 
>>   
>> 
>> 
>> 
>I'll be Downunder in September.  Locations, dates and times to be announced.
>
>
>Best, R.E.F. 
>---- 
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
>stupidity.

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Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 20:34:08 -0700 (PDT)
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From: Dicken Joseph <ceo5891492@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: Touring
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 20:34:08 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dicken Joseph <ceo5891492@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: Touring
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Hey Ray,
   Are you coming to the U.S. anytime soon?
                                      Joe

=====
You ever stop and think about how perfect God is? We're made up of the
same periodic elements as dirt, but we're alive; dirt isn't. Why are
we alive and not the dirt? Are we meant to do something the dirt
can't? Oh yeah, I forgot! Dirt can't love other dirt.....

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Sign up for SBC Yahoo! Dial - First Month Free
http://sbc.yahoo.com



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 21:42:18 -0700
Subject: Re: Touring
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On Monday, July 8, 2002, at 08:34 PM, Dicken Joseph wrote:

> Hey Ray,
>    Are you coming to the U.S. anytime soon?
>                                       Joe
>
> =====
>

Actually, I live in the U.S.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2002 01:05:34 -0700
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: Alan Kellogg <mythusmage@cts.com>
Subject: Re: Touring
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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>On Monday, July 8, 2002, at 08:34 PM, Dicken Joseph wrote:
>
>>Hey Ray,
>>    Are you coming to the U.S. anytime soon?
>>                                       Joe
>>
>>=====
>>
>
>Actually, I live in the U.S.
>
>Best, R.E.F.

If some people had their way...

Alan
-- 
Writing Practice at: <http://www.gamingoutpost.com>



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From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Finished MiL (comments and spoilers)
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2002 17:35:15 +1000 (GMT+1000)
From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Finished MiL (comments and spoilers)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

> I just finished MiL this morning, and I enjoyed it very much. I was not that sure at the beginning, but as the pages were turned these 3 characters became flesh in my mind and very interesting to follow. I read you first five Guardian of the flame serie almost 20 years ago Joel, so I did not recall how you play with characters (except for Karl and Walter). I liked the unit these 3 form, and I wonder if they are aware how much they complete each other. They are good characters. Are these from Guardian of the Flame serie? I do not recall seeing them. I may return to that serie to read more about them. I laughed when Kethol was trying to pick a good line to say as a cheers apart from his usual mercenary sentences :-)
>
>
> Now, there was some things that make me wonder:
>
> S
>
> P
>
> O
>
> I
>
> L
>
> E
>
> R
>
> S
>
> Is there something significant about the way Fantus entered the Swordmaster's office? Pirojil is wondering about that in the end.
>
> Also, was there a hidden reason for the rangers to talk about the snowshoes to Kethol?
> Paddyjack

Haven't you heard?! It's a marketing tool! Joel and Ray are brining out
their own geniune Natalese Snow Shoe range


*g*

Thanks
Darragh
================================================
msn: iamtheporkfireman@hotmail.com

"Believe or die - thank you O lord for all those
 options" - Bill Hicks.
================================================



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From: "Wouter Durnez" <arutha_of_krondor@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Pseudonym
Date: Tue, 09 Jul 2002 08:19:01 +0000
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*** EOOH ***
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From: "Wouter Durnez" <arutha_of_krondor@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Pseudonym
Date: Tue, 09 Jul 2002 08:19:01 +0000
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Hi Ray,
I was just wondering, since I've recently finished reading Faerietale, if 
you have ever written a book under an alias, a pseudonym, like Phil 
Hastings? (IIR the name C) I'm not sure if you would tell me if you did, 
that's why I'm also asking the whole list.
Thanks,
Wouter

_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com



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From: "Amos Trask" <amostrask74@hotmail.com>
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Subject: the game
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From: "Amos Trask" <amostrask74@hotmail.com>
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I saw a site listed a bout a month ago that had the music from the game
BAK i lost the link. if any one could help I would be thank full.



Amos

"Ah Arutha you take all the fun out of life."


_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com



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From: "Deon O'Brien" <randmtask@optushome.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Magician 20th Anniversary edition
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2002 19:17:15 +1000
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Rob Kolech" <feistfan@rogers.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Monday, July 08, 2002 12:27 PM
Subject: RE: Magician 20th Anniversary edition


> Found the 20th anniversary edition on amazon.co.uk, here is the link:
>
> http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0007134118/qid=1026094897/sr=2-2/ref=sr_2_3_2/202-5642383-7951045
>
> The price is about the same as most other hardbacks.
> The Listed publisher is Voyager (not Harper Collins) does anyone know if
> this is the LEATHER bound version or is it something else?  Thanks
>
>
> Rob K.
>

Just the regular edition AFAIK. Voyager is Harper Collins relatively newly
created SciFi and Fantasy arm

Deon O'Brien
--
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not
sure about the former." - Albert Einstein (1879-1955)



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That could be this site; QuestStudios with lots of Sierra games soundtracks.

http://www.queststudios.com/quest/sierrap1.html

Speaking of game soundtracks, I was really impressed by the music once again set
to the RtK game. Has anyone gone out and bought the score, and what's their
impression of it?

My first re-read of Magician was with headphones on my ears playing out the
soundtrack of BaK (although it had to go through on repeat quite alot because
the novel is so long and I took my time..).

Lastly, a little question about book recommendations (also aimed a bit at you,
Ray..) What books by other authors do you read, what series can you recommend to
one who at the moment finds all the Feist books the best of fantasy literature
by far, and has also read some Robert E Howard, Fritz Leiber and Kate Elliott as
well as some Jordan, Hickman & Weiss, Pratchett (but low interest eventually
made me drop these series).

As for the question to you, Ray, I wonder if you have a lot of time to actually
read other fantasy novels and to what extent these influence you? I had only
time to skim through the first few pages of the new MiL novel and saw that you
credited this trio to some extent to a trio that has appeared in Joel's other books.

If these questions have appeared here before (as I'm sure they must have), I'm
sorry for that, but these are some things I wonder about these days while I wait
for new, wonderful stories from Midkemia and Kelewan. AND that brings another
question, at the crydee.com site I saw that the last two Krondor: novels were
estimated to be published before Talon (& Honoured Enemy) so I assume that's not
really the case. But does anyone know any tentative dates?

Thanks for your patience if you got all the way through this email,

All the best,

Trym
(just starting George Martin's 'Game of Thrones' while waiting)

Quoting Amos Trask <amostrask74@hotmail.com>:
> I saw a site listed a bout a month ago that had the music from the
> game
> BAK i lost the link. if any one could help I would be thank full.
> 
> 
> 
> Amos
> 
> "Ah Arutha you take all the fun out of life."
> 
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com
> 


------------------------------------------------------------
Få din egen @start.no-adresse gratis på http://www.start.no/



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From: "Reinhardt Gerber" <Reinhardt@Basix.co.za>
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Subject: Betrayal at Krondor
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From: "Reinhardt Gerber" <Reinhardt@Basix.co.za>
To: "Feist Mailing List" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Betrayal at Krondor
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2002 14:07:36 +0200
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Does anybody know where I can get "Betrayal at Krondor" and Return to
Krondor". The games that is.

Reinhardt.



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Subject: Magician 20th Anniversary edition
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Here is the info i received today regards Magician

No leather edition. The anniversary edition will be quarterbound in 
cloth and leatherette (I believe) with a symbol tooled onto the front 
cover; no jacket. Interior embellishments (small cameos) by Geoff 
Taylor.

-- 
john@crydee.com

http://www.crydee.com



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From: "Greg Bulloch" <somedude1_2000@hotmail.com>
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well return to krondor isnt free.... try ebay or you may be lucky enought to 
have a local shop ordr it in for you but bretrayal at krondor is now 
freeware you can grab it of the sierra homepage
i heard they released it as freeware to promote there sequel betrayal in 
antara.... i also heard they didnt consult ray while making the sequel and 
it turned out to b a flop hehe
but i was wondering does betrayal in antara have anything to do with 
midkemia? if so could some1 explain


>From: "Reinhardt Gerber" <Reinhardt@Basix.co.za>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: "Feist Mailing List" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
>Subject: Betrayal at Krondor
>Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2002 14:07:36 +0200
>
>Does anybody know where I can get "Betrayal at Krondor" and Return to
>Krondor". The games that is.
>
>Reinhardt.




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Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2002 15:35:09 +0100 (BST)
From: Michael Gibson <gibbyfish@yahoo.com>
Subject: Meeting up with other FF-L members during the tours
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Hi folks

It seems there are a number of people who are aiming to meet up with
other list members during the tour.

To this end, I've set aside an area in my forums for the purpose of
such co-ordination - feel free to post your intentions.  Find them
at:
www.tonrae.co.uk/forums

The "2002 Feist Tour" forum is open to guest posting.



====Mike,
Gibfish of Faringdonia

"I meant, have you ploughed the ocean waves at all?"
Colon gave him a cunning look.
"Ah, you can't catch me with that one, sir," he said.  "Everyone knows the horses would sink."

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You can find it as "abandonware" here:
http://www.freeoldies.com/screenshot.php3?ref=Betrayal+at+krondor

As for Return to Krondor, it is too recent to find it there.

Paddyjack 
--

On Tue, 9 Jul 2002 14:07:36   
 Reinhardt Gerber wrote:
>Does anybody know where I can get "Betrayal at Krondor" and Return to
>Krondor". The games that is.
>
>Reinhardt.
>
>


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On Wed, 10 Jul 2002 00:27:49  
 Greg Bulloch wrote:
>well return to krondor isnt free.... try ebay or you may be lucky enought to 
>have a local shop ordr it in for you but bretrayal at krondor is now 
>freeware you can grab it of the sierra homepage
>i heard they released it as freeware to promote there sequel betrayal in 
>antara.... i also heard they didnt consult ray while making the sequel and 
>it turned out to b a flop hehe
>but i was wondering does betrayal in antara have anything to do with 
>midkemia? if so could some1 explain
>
>


No it has nothing to do with Midkemia. It was the same engine, same
kind of game, but different story.

Paddyjack


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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2002 08:01:51 -0700 (PDT)
From: Chris Vance <pikachu_chris@yahoo.com.sg>
Subject: Re: Meeting up with other FF-L members during the tours
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Anybody on the list from Singapore besides myself?

I'm trying to organise a "petition" to get Raymond to
Borders Singapore. Would appreciate a show of hands.

Chris Ivan Ang
--- Michael Gibson <gibbyfish@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Hi folks
> 
> It seems there are a number of people who are aiming
> to meet up with
> other list members during the tour.
> 
> To this end, I've set aside an area in my forums for
> the purpose of
> such co-ordination - feel free to post your
> intentions.  Find them
> at:
> www.tonrae.co.uk/forums
> 
> The "2002 Feist Tour" forum is open to guest
> posting.
> 
> 
> 
> =====
> Mike,
> Gibfish of Faringdonia
> 
> "I meant, have you ploughed the ocean waves at all?"
> Colon gave him a cunning look.
> "Ah, you can't catch me with that one, sir," he
> said.  "Everyone knows the horses would sink."
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Everything you'll ever need on one web page
> from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts
> http://uk.my.yahoo.com
> 


=====
The Brainless

__________________________________________________
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From: Joshua Stanton <jasharkalain@yahoo.com>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2002 08:16:11 -0700 (PDT)
From: Joshua Stanton <jasharkalain@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Touring
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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He actually meant O. S. (Outer Space) which is where
he lives...  <g>

Just kidding,

Joshua.


--- Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com> wrote:
> 
> On Monday, July 8, 2002, at 08:34 PM, Dicken Joseph
> wrote:
> 
> > Hey Ray,
> >    Are you coming to the U.S. anytime soon?
> >                                       Joe
> >
> > =====
> >
> 
> Actually, I live in the U.S.
> 
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
> 
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be
> explained away by 
> stupidity.
> 


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Quoting Reinhardt Gerber <Reinhardt@Basix.co.za>:

> Does anybody know where I can get "Betrayal at Krondor" and Return to
> Krondor". The games that is.
> 
> Reinhardt.

A quick search on google.co.uk for "betrayal at krondor download" should give
you a lot of places to get it. There's two versions out, one which needs to be
patched, and another that is already patched. Personally I'd dish out some money
to get the cd-rom version because you get a really great soundtrack with it
rather than the bleeping MIDI (although once, many years ago, that was the
hottest... gee, how technology progresses).

Should be able to get RtK from any online games outlet, really. Try Amazon or
Electronics Boutique for starters.

all the best,
Trym

------------------------------------------------------------
Få din egen @start.no-adresse gratis på http://www.start.no/



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From: "Eric A. Bonney" <eric.bonney@fuse.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: E-books again
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2002 14:02:24 -0400
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*** EOOH ***
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: "Eric A. Bonney" <eric.bonney@fuse.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: E-books again
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2002 14:02:24 -0400
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Ray or anyone else,

	Ok so I emailed this same question to Harper Collins and the response that
I got was "Check the website I don't know."

	I was wondering if you/Harper have or are going to release any of your
earlier books in e-book format?  Particularly the Magician, Silverthorn etc.
I am not a collector, just like to read and not have to carry books around.
I haven't read your earlier since I was in high school and since I need to
buy them again to reread them I would prefer to have them electronically.

	Is it upto the authors or the publisher to decided how a book get released?
Is there a particular reason why either doesn't like to release books in
electronic format?  I understand the fear of piracy, but I don't understand
it in regards to older books.  It seems that if more publishers/authors
would release books in electronic format, they could gain readers and more
sales.

	Well anyways thanks,

-Eric



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From: "Rob Kolech" <feistfan@rogers.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Magician 20th Anniversary edition
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2002 16:34:40 -0400
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From: "Rob Kolech" <feistfan@rogers.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Magician 20th Anniversary edition
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2002 16:34:40 -0400
X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at fep04-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com from [24.102.215.75] using ID <feistfan@rogers.com> at Tue, 9 Jul 2002 16:34:05 -0400
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John,

Would this be what I saw on amazon at
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0007134118/qid=1026094897/sr=2-2/re
f=sr_2_3_2/202-5642383-7951045

And just to clarify, the 20th Anniversary Edition will not be released in
the US market right?  Thanks in advance

Rob K.


-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of John
>Sent: July 9, 2002 8:18 AM
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: Magician 20th Anniversary edition
>
>
>Here is the info i received today regards Magician
>
>No leather edition. The anniversary edition will be quarterbound in
>cloth and leatherette (I believe) with a symbol tooled onto the front
>cover; no jacket. Interior embellishments (small cameos) by Geoff
>Taylor.
>
>--
>john@crydee.com
>
>http://www.crydee.com
>



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Subject: Re: E-books again
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Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2002 15:24:20 -0700
Subject: Re: E-books again
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
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On Tuesday, July 9, 2002, at 11:02 AM, Eric A. Bonney wrote:

> Ray or anyone else,
>
> 	Ok so I emailed this same question to Harper Collins and the 
> response that
> I got was "Check the website I don't know."
>
> 	I was wondering if you/Harper have or are going to release any of your
> earlier books in e-book format?  Particularly the Magician, Silverthorn 
> etc.
> I am not a collector, just like to read and not have to carry books 
> around.
> I haven't read your earlier since I was in high school and since I need 
> to
> buy them again to reread them I would prefer to have them 
> electronically.
>
> 	Is it upto the authors or the publisher to decided how a book get 
> released?
> Is there a particular reason why either doesn't like to release books in
> electronic format?  I understand the fear of piracy, but I don't 
> understand
> it in regards to older books.  It seems that if more publishers/authors
> would release books in electronic format, they could gain readers and 
> more
> sales.
>
> 	Well anyways thanks,
>
>
>
Harper doesn't have the e-rights to the earlier books.  We're discussing 
the possibility of e-books of those editions, but at this time I have 
nothing to announce.

The major reason for not releasing books in e-format is no one has a 
decent model for the economics of that end of publishing.  No one is 
anxious to be a guinne pig and discover they're bound to a horrible 
rights deal ten years from now while everyone who waited is making twice 
as much money.

When the "standards" of the format become apparent in terms of contract 
rights, then you'll see more books move to e-book.  Right now there's 
not enough real money to be made to take the risk.  I did the Krondor 
books as a favor to some friends at Avon, but wasn't thrilled with the 
deal.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Subject: Re: Magician 20th Anniversary edition
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Magician 20th Anniversary edition
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2002 16:44:31 -0500
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Hmm, and they want how much for this?

-James

----- Original Message -----
From: "John" <john@crydee.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, July 09, 2002 7:18 AM
Subject: Magician 20th Anniversary edition


> Here is the info i received today regards Magician
>
> No leather edition. The anniversary edition will be quarterbound in
> cloth and leatherette (I believe) with a symbol tooled onto the front
> cover; no jacket. Interior embellishments (small cameos) by Geoff
> Taylor.
>
> --
> john@crydee.com
>
> http://www.crydee.com
>



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From: John <john@crydee.com>
Subject: Re: Which is the real 1st edition
References: <011801c22511$fa308230$c55c1cd3@co3057647a>
 <001001c22539$72580590$570199a8@atinera.com.au>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2002 22:18:10 +0100
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From: John <john@crydee.com>
Subject: Re: Which is the real 1st edition
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Cameron Duncan <cduncan@atinera.com.au> writes
>
>
>Gee, I thought I was the only one who paid a fortune for Ray's books in
>Australia.
>And considering our exchange rate, it really is a small fortune at times!!!
>Hmmm, the elusive Magician UK hardcover..... I did see one once...in a
>picture <g>
>
>Cameron
>
>
>
I think I saw that too, but through a lens :)
-- 
John

john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.

Raymond E Feist Ring
http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm



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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: John <john@crydee.com>
Subject: Re: Magician 20th Anniversary edition
References: <E17Rtwl-0005aj-00@nitro.vosn.net>
 <KLEEJOHIIBPKHKCAHFELCEDPCCAA.feistfan@rogers.com>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2002 22:20:09 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: John <john@crydee.com>
Subject: Re: Magician 20th Anniversary edition
User-Agent: Turnpike/6.01-U (<x5sqXV$6+zj$GDJXMMY4QwhIW3>)
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Rob Kolech <feistfan@rogers.com> writes
>John,
>
>Would this be what I saw on amazon at
>http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0007134118/qid=1026094897/sr=2-2/re
>f=sr_2_3_2/202-5642383-7951045
>
>And just to clarify, the 20th Anniversary Edition will not be released in
>the US market right?  Thanks in advance
>
>Rob K.
>
It certainly looks like it could be
-- 
John

john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.

Raymond E Feist Ring
http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm



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Subject: Re: E-books again 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 09 Jul 2002 15:24:20 MST."
             <9CFD738A-938A-11D6-9036-003065A8A644@bittersea.com> 
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Subject: Re: E-books again 
Cc: Alan.Hargreaves@Sun.COM
From: Alan.Hargreaves@Sun.COM
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 10:26:07 +1000
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An article that I read today has some interesting stuff on it that is kind of 
relevant to this topic. The article is pitched at the music industry (the 
author is Janis Ian) but makes some reference to freely sites that authors 
have made some work available and found that it has increased sales of older 
material.

http://www.janisian.com/article-internet_debacle.html

THE INTERNET DEBACLE - AN ALTERNATIVE VIEW

Originally written for Performing Songwriter Magazine 

"The Internet, and downloading, are here to stay... Anyone who thinks 
otherwise should prepare themselves to end up on the slagheap of history."
       (Janis Ian during a live European radio interview, 9-1-98)



alan.
--
Alan Hargreaves                 Senior Technical Support Specialist
Phone      : +61 2 9844 5379    
Mobile     : +61 416 207 573    Product Technical Support (APAC)
Fax        : +61 2 9418 2143    Sun Microsystems 
Call Centre: 1 800 555 786      828 Pacific Highway, Gordon NSW 2072


    "On two occasions, I have been asked [by members of Parliament],
    'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will
    the right answers come out?' I am not able to rightly apprehend
    the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question."

					  -- Charles Babbage



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Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2002 18:23:28 -0700
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Subject: Tour Info--New Zealand
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Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2002 18:23:28 -0700
Subject: Tour Info--New Zealand
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: fEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Looks like September 27th I'll be in Auckland and in Wellington on the 
28th.  The Saturday bit will be at noon, I've been told, at noon at a 
Dymocks in association with the Wellington F/SF Association.

More details when I have them.

Best, R.E.F.

----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Subject: Re: E-books again
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Subject: Re: E-books again
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I have read a few e-books on my Palm and I have to say that I much prefer
reading a regular book. Personally I would not purchase an e-book on its
own, however I would be willing to pay extra for a regular book which
included a CD with the book in e-book format. I would then read some of the
book in e-book format when I did not have the regular book with me. Also I
believe that people who buy the book are less likely to distribute illegal
e-book copies of it to others, as opposed to someone who downloads the
e-book from the Internet.

Tim



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From: "Rob Kolech" <feistfan@rogers.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Magician 20th Anniversary edition
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2002 22:22:36 -0400
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Rob Kolech" <feistfan@rogers.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Magician 20th Anniversary edition
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2002 22:22:36 -0400
X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at fep02-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com from [24.102.215.75] using ID <feistfan@rogers.com> at Tue, 9 Jul 2002 22:22:37 -0400
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The price at Amazon is:
£16.00

Not too bad actually.

Rob K.

-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of James Young
>Sent: July 9, 2002 5:45 PM
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: Re: Magician 20th Anniversary edition
>
>
>Hmm, and they want how much for this?
>
>-James
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "John" <john@crydee.com>
>To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
>Sent: Tuesday, July 09, 2002 7:18 AM
>Subject: Magician 20th Anniversary edition
>
>
>> Here is the info i received today regards Magician
>>
>> No leather edition. The anniversary edition will be quarterbound in
>> cloth and leatherette (I believe) with a symbol tooled onto the front
>> cover; no jacket. Interior embellishments (small cameos) by Geoff
>> Taylor.
>>
>> --
>> john@crydee.com
>>
>> http://www.crydee.com
>>
>



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From: "Cameron Duncan" <cduncan@atinera.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Magician 20th Anniversary edition
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 12:39:07 +1000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Cameron Duncan" <cduncan@atinera.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Magician 20th Anniversary edition
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 12:39:07 +1000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

And the price is $65.00 au at a the Harper Collins Web site for those
on the list from Downunder.
Of course, I'd guess we can expect to see the price discounted at the
retail shops? (which is normal for books here)

Cameron
(who may have to limit the number of copies he buys at that price :(  )

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Rob Kolech
> Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2002 12:23 PM
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Subject: RE: Magician 20th Anniversary edition
>
>
> The price at Amazon is:
> £16.00
>
> Not too bad actually.
>
> Rob K.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of James Young
> Sent: July 9, 2002 5:45 PM
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Subject: Re: Magician 20th Anniversary edition
>
>
> Hmm, and they want how much for this?
>
> -James
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "John" <john@crydee.com>
> To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> Sent: Tuesday, July 09, 2002 7:18 AM
> Subject: Magician 20th Anniversary edition
>
>
> > Here is the info i received today regards Magician
> >
> > No leather edition. The anniversary edition will be quarterbound
> in
> > cloth and leatherette (I believe) with a symbol tooled onto the
> front
> > cover; no jacket. Interior embellishments (small cameos) by Geoff
> > Taylor.
> >
> > --
> > john@crydee.com
> >
> > http://www.crydee.com
> >
>
>
>



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*** EOOH ***
content-class: urn:content-classes:message
Subject: RE: Magician 20th Anniversary edition
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 12:46:56 +1000
Thread-Topic: Magician 20th Anniversary edition
Thread-Index: AcInu6XjRQcGn0mNQMWtWpr18QbdsAAAB/Gw
From: "Green, Brendan" <Brendan.Green@baycorpadvantage.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

What did you guys pay for MIL because in Aus
it is labelled for AU$45 but I got it for AU$35

-----Original Message-----
>From: Rob Kolech [mailto:feistfan@rogers.com]
>Sent: Wednesday, 10 July 2002 12:23
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: RE: Magician 20th Anniversary edition
>
>
>The price at Amazon is:
>£16.00
>
>Not too bad actually.
>
>Rob K.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of James Young
>Sent: July 9, 2002 5:45 PM
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: Re: Magician 20th Anniversary edition
>
>
>Hmm, and they want how much for this?
>
>-James
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "John" <john@crydee.com>
>To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
>Sent: Tuesday, July 09, 2002 7:18 AM
>Subject: Magician 20th Anniversary edition
>
>
>> Here is the info i received today regards Magician
>>
>> No leather edition. The anniversary edition will be quarterbound
>in
>> cloth and leatherette (I believe) with a symbol tooled onto the
>front
>> cover; no jacket. Interior embellishments (small cameos) by Geoff
>> Taylor.
>>
>> --
>> john@crydee.com
>>
>> http://www.crydee.com

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Subject: Re: Magician 20th Anniversary edition
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*** EOOH ***
From: Smoking88@aol.com
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2002 23:13:30 EDT
Subject: Re: Magician 20th Anniversary edition
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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will it be available here in the states, or this another US not included book?
joe

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Subject: RE: Magician 20th Anniversary edition
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*** EOOH ***
From: tim.plummer@ap.interfaceinc.com
Subject: RE: Magician 20th Anniversary edition
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 13:29:02 +1000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu



Angus & Robertson and Dymocks both had it advertised for AU$35, but I ended
up paying AU$45 at Collins Bookstore.

http://www.angusrobertson.com.au/featuredbook1.asp?StoreUrl=angusrobertson&bookid=0002247208&db=au

http://www.dymocks.com.au/asp/full_details.asp?isbn=0002247208

http://www.collinsbooks.com.au/featuredbook1.asp?StoreUrl=collinsbooks&bookid=0002247208&db=au


Tim





>"Green, Brendan" <Brendan.Green@baycorpadvantage.com>@cornell.edu on
>07/10/2002 01:46:56 PM
>
>Please respond to FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>
>Sent by:    owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>
>
>To:    <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
>cc:
>
>Subject:    RE: Magician 20th Anniversary edition
>
>
>What did you guys pay for MIL because in Aus
>it is labelled for AU$45 but I got it for AU$35
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Rob Kolech [mailto:feistfan@rogers.com]
>Sent: Wednesday, 10 July 2002 12:23
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: RE: Magician 20th Anniversary edition
>
>
>The price at Amazon is:
>£16.00
>
>Not too bad actually.
>
>Rob K.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of James Young
>Sent: July 9, 2002 5:45 PM
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: Re: Magician 20th Anniversary edition
>
>
>Hmm, and they want how much for this?
>
>-James
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "John" <john@crydee.com>
>To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
>Sent: Tuesday, July 09, 2002 7:18 AM
>Subject: Magician 20th Anniversary edition
>
>
>> Here is the info i received today regards Magician
>>
>> No leather edition. The anniversary edition will be quarterbound
>in
>> cloth and leatherette (I believe) with a symbol tooled onto the
>front
>> cover; no jacket. Interior embellishments (small cameos) by Geoff
>> Taylor.
>>
>> --
>> john@crydee.com
>>
>> http://www.crydee.com

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Subject: Re: Magician 20th Anniversary edition
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2002 21:58:19 -0700
Subject: Re: Magician 20th Anniversary edition
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Tuesday, July 9, 2002, at 08:13 PM, Smoking88@aol.com wrote:

> will it be available here in the states, or this another US not 
> included book?
> joe
>
>
>
UK only.  No one in the US has the hardcover rights.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.

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Subject: Re: Magician 20th Anniversary edition
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Joseph Benckert" <jbenckert@sc.rr.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Magician 20th Anniversary edition
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 01:22:20 -0400
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Ray is touring for MIL, right - not 20th Anniversary Magician.  I was
browsing crydee.com and saw this upcoming tour described by the latter.

Joey



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Subject: RE: Magician 20th Anniversary edition
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*** EOOH ***
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Subject: RE: Magician 20th Anniversary edition
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 15:31:55 +1000
Thread-Topic: Magician 20th Anniversary edition
Thread-Index: AcIn0V6NPOuI0z3IRvSmPY4OkA0O/wAAYIow
From: "Green, Brendan" <Brendan.Green@baycorpadvantage.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
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Ray,

I don't know much about book rights and stuff
but your from the US and your books don't even get sold there,
it just seems weird.

Brendan

-----Original Message-----
>From: Raymond Feist [mailto:raymond@bittersea.com]
>Sent: Wednesday, 10 July 2002 14:58
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: Re: Magician 20th Anniversary edition
>
>
>
>On Tuesday, July 9, 2002, at 08:13 PM, Smoking88@aol.com wrote: 
>
>
>> will it be available here in the states, or this another US not included
>> book? 
>> joe 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>UK only.  No one in the US has the hardcover rights. 
>
>Best, R.E.F. 
>---- 
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
>stupidity.

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Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 16:56:20 +1000 (GMT+1000)
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From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Magician 20th Anniversary edition
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 16:56:20 +1000 (GMT+1000)
From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Magician 20th Anniversary edition
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


I got it for $27.95, Hardback, first, at my local Kmart

> What did you guys pay for MIL because in Aus
> it is labelled for AU$45 but I got it for AU$35
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rob Kolech [mailto:feistfan@rogers.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, 10 July 2002 12:23
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Subject: RE: Magician 20th Anniversary edition
>
>
> The price at Amazon is:
> £16.00
>
> Not too bad actually.
>
> Rob K.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of James Young
> Sent: July 9, 2002 5:45 PM
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Subject: Re: Magician 20th Anniversary edition
>
>
> Hmm, and they want how much for this?
>
> -James
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "John" <john@crydee.com>
> To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> Sent: Tuesday, July 09, 2002 7:18 AM
> Subject: Magician 20th Anniversary edition
>
>
> > Here is the info i received today regards Magician
> >
> > No leather edition. The anniversary edition will be quarterbound
> in
> > cloth and leatherette (I believe) with a symbol tooled onto the
> front
> > cover; no jacket. Interior embellishments (small cameos) by Geoff
> > Taylor.
> >
> > --
> > john@crydee.com
> >
> > http://www.crydee.com
> >
>
>

Thanks
Darragh
================================================
msn: iamtheporkfireman@hotmail.com

"Believe or die - thank you O lord for all those
 options" - Bill Hicks.
================================================



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To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Tour Info--New Zealand
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 19:13:26 +1200
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*** EOOH ***
From: wootten@xtra.co.nz
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Tour Info--New Zealand
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Wellington!  Yeah, baby!  ::does a little happy dance::
Only 2 hours drive each way instead of 6.  That's fantastic!

Julie.

> Looks like September 27th I'll be in Auckland and in Wellington on the 
> 28th.  The Saturday bit will be at noon, I've been told, at noon at a 
> Dymocks in association with the Wellington F/SF Association.
> 
> More details when I have them.
> 
> Best, R.E.F.
> 
> ----
> 
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
> stupidity.
> 
> 



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Subject: Re: the game(s) (& some questions)
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> Speaking of game soundtracks, I was really impressed by the music once 
> again set
> to the RtK game. Has anyone gone out and bought the score, and what's their
> impression of it?

Bought the soundtrack via the web two years ago IIRC, and I loved it,
even if I found each score too short. A couple of them reminded me the
game Diablo too closely also. But I still -love- the intro song and
the "Krondor" theme which I enjoy playing on my flute :)

But, truth to tell, I prefer the soundtrack from BaK. On RtK, except
the travel song (the last one), there is no "happy song" like most of
BaK's soundtrack ("The Kingdom Mine", "LaMut"...) or epic one (like
the intro song of BaK), while BaK still features some good
tragic/mellow songs too.

Of course, BaK is complete synthetised music, but still, I enjoy the
score. Take a guitar and a flute, and you're in Midkemia again :)

Syl



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Subject: Re: Betrayal at Krondor
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> No it has nothing to do with Midkemia. It was the same engine, same kind of 
> game, but different story.

A nice story, though.

Syl



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Subject: Re: Magician 20th Anniversary edition
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*** EOOH ***
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From: "Adam Thornton" <sandman_one87@hotmail.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Magician 20th Anniversary edition
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 21:12:35 +1200
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Jul 2002 09:12:43.0039 (UTC) FILETIME=[F2972AF0:01C227F1]
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nope he is touring for 20th Anniversary Magician AND Talon of the Silver
Hawk (his other new book).

Adam

----- Original Message -----
From: "Joseph Benckert" <jbenckert@sc.rr.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2002 5:22 PM
Subject: Re: Magician 20th Anniversary edition


> Ray is touring for MIL, right - not 20th Anniversary Magician.  I was
> browsing crydee.com and saw this upcoming tour described by the latter.
>
> Joey
>



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Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 06:33:08 EDT
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*** EOOH ***
From: BH10BH000@aol.com
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 06:33:08 EDT
Subject: Re: Betrayal at Krondor
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Hi

    I've downloaded Betrayal at Krondor and the patch. However, I get a 
message saying that I don't have enough memory, yet I have 108MB of RAM free 
to be used . Does anyone know how I could solve this problem.

Thanks,
Ben



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References: <000d01c22605$d5687580$570199a8@atinera.com.au>
Subject: Re: Which is the real 1st edition
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 20:35:17 +1000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Deon O'Brien" <randmtask@optushome.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Which is the real 1st edition
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 20:35:17 +1000
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Cameron Duncan" <cduncan@atinera.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Monday, July 08, 2002 8:30 AM
Subject: RE: Which is the real 1st edition

>
> I guess I must have been lucky - I managed very early on to find a UK
> hardback copy of Silverthorn in good condition for $6.00 au.  To think I
> nearly passed up on it!!!
> It took nearly 2 years to find a UK hardback copy of Darkness, and it cost
> me
> a fortune - probably balances out the Silverthorn find....kind of a book
> buying karma <g>
> Whilst I haven't given up hope of finding a UK hardback of Magician, I don't
> think it's
> likely.  At least I managed to find Trade Paperbacks of all three covers
> including a
> mint copy of the original Neil Breedon (spelling?) cover.
> And then there's the opportunity to stock up on 20th Anniversary hardbacks
> <bg>
>
> Cameron

Well If you find another Silverthorn, you need to let me know. I'll even up
it to $7 :)

Deon O'Brien
--
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not
sure about the former." - Albert Einstein (1879-1955)




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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 20:43:11 +1000 (GMT+1000)
From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Betrayal at Krondor
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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It works using an memory manager used usually with 486's. You're going to
have to edit your autoexec.bat and config sys and run the game in DOS mose
(hopefully, you've got windows 98, and not XP or 2K which might prove a
bit difficult)

I'm sure there is a webpage out there with more detailed instructions...

> Hi
>
>     I've downloaded Betrayal at Krondor and the patch. However, I get a
> message saying that I don't have enough memory, yet I have 108MB of RAM free
> to be used . Does anyone know how I could solve this problem.
>
> Thanks,
> Ben
>
>

Thanks
Darragh
================================================
msn: iamtheporkfireman@hotmail.com

"Believe or die - thank you O lord for all those
 options" - Bill Hicks.
================================================



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From: "Iain" <iainp@btinternet.com>
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References: <E17Rtwl-0005aj-00@nitro.vosn.net>
Subject: Re: Magician 20th Anniversary edition
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 12:45:53 +0100
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Iain" <iainp@btinternet.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Magician 20th Anniversary edition
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 12:45:53 +0100
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

After all the emails I decided ask Harper Collins and this is the reply I
got.

====
|Many thanks for contacting us via fireandwater.
|
|The anniversary deluxe edition of Magician by Raymond Feist is due for
|release on 02 September 2002 (this is of course subject to change) - look
|out for further details on www.fireandwater.com as it will be available to
|buy from the site!
|
|If you would like to receive a monthly email with information on new
|releases, competitions, author interviews and events click on the URL below
|to sign up for our newsletters.
|
|http://www.fireandwater.com/Members/newsletters.asp
|
|Regards
|
|Nina Douglas
|Internet Department
|HarperCollins Publishers
|http://www.fireandwater.com
|
|
|
|Internet Department
|HarperCollins Publishers
|77-85 Fulham Palace Road
|Hammersmith
|London
|W6 8JB
====

So it looks like the one on Amazxon is NOT the one we most want.

Iain.

----- Original Message -----
From: "John" <john@crydee.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, July 09, 2002 1:18 PM
Subject: Magician 20th Anniversary edition


> Here is the info i received today regards Magician
>
> No leather edition. The anniversary edition will be quarterbound in
> cloth and leatherette (I believe) with a symbol tooled onto the front
> cover; no jacket. Interior embellishments (small cameos) by Geoff
> Taylor.
>
> --
> john@crydee.com
>
> http://www.crydee.com
>



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To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
References: <3B400CD08F92AD469B054EBF8D888D40430205@dadmel012k01.dad.com.au>
Subject: Re: Magician 20th Anniversary edition
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Mark Tonkin" <shadowfire@chariot.net.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Magician 20th Anniversary edition
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 22:16:26 +0930
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I payed just under AU$25 with 15% off at Kmart.  I bought the latest John
Grisham book at the same time for around AU$18 in hardcover :-).

- MARK

========================================
Dilbert's rules of order #2:
"I love deadlines.  I especially like the wooshing
sound they make as they go flying by."

----- Original Message -----
>From: "Green, Brendan" <Brendan.Green@baycorpadvantage.com>
>To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
>Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2002 12:16 PM
>Subject: RE: Magician 20th Anniversary edition
>
>
>What did you guys pay for MIL because in Aus
>it is labelled for AU$45 but I got it for AU$35
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Rob Kolech [mailto:feistfan@rogers.com]
>Sent: Wednesday, 10 July 2002 12:23
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: RE: Magician 20th Anniversary edition
>
>
>The price at Amazon is:
>£16.00
>
>Not too bad actually.
>
>Rob K.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of James Young
>Sent: July 9, 2002 5:45 PM
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: Re: Magician 20th Anniversary edition
>
>
>Hmm, and they want how much for this?
>
>-James
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "John" <john@crydee.com>
>To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
>Sent: Tuesday, July 09, 2002 7:18 AM
>Subject: Magician 20th Anniversary edition
>
>
>> Here is the info i received today regards Magician
>>
>> No leather edition. The anniversary edition will be quarterbound
>in
>> cloth and leatherette (I believe) with a symbol tooled onto the
>front
>> cover; no jacket. Interior embellishments (small cameos) by Geoff
>> Taylor.
>>
>> --
>> john@crydee.com
>>
>> http://www.crydee.com
>>
>




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Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 06:01:34 -0700
Subject: Re: Magician 20th Anniversary edition
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 06:01:34 -0700
Subject: Re: Magician 20th Anniversary edition
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On Tuesday, July 9, 2002, at 10:22 PM, Joseph Benckert wrote:

> Ray is touring for MIL, right - not 20th Anniversary Magician.  I was
> browsing crydee.com and saw this upcoming tour described by the latter.
>
> Joey
>
>
>
>
No, I'm not touring for Murder in LaMut.  I'm touring for Talon of the 
Silver Hawk.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Subject: Re: Betrayal at Krondor
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Dennis Groome" <nallix@cox.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Betrayal at Krondor
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 08:26:29 -0500
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ahh...welcome to the wonderful world of DOS games, when each game had to be
configured by hand, and that included memory requirements,.  Sadly, it's
been way too long for me and I can't help you, but someone else on the list
might be able to.

-Dennis H. Groome V
ICQ: 11430261 AIM/Yahoo: AmoNympham
Microsoft Messenger: marcus_giovani@hotmail.com


----- Original Message -----
From: <BH10BH000@aol.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2002 5:33 AM
Subject: Re: Betrayal at Krondor


> Hi
>
>     I've downloaded Betrayal at Krondor and the patch. However, I get a
> message saying that I don't have enough memory, yet I have 108MB of RAM free
> to be used . Does anyone know how I could solve this problem.
>
> Thanks,
> Ben
>
>



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Pardon my ignorance if there's a straight-forward answer to this one, but isn't
it a bit early to be touring Talon of the Silver Hawk already, esp since it's
not yet available?
Unless there are Advance Reader's Editions of it circulating already though?

Or are the tours in the book-world generally carried out before the newest
publication/release is actually available? More like preview-tours in a sense.

Trym

Quoting Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>:
> >
> No, I'm not touring for Murder in LaMut.  I'm touring for Talon of the
> 
> Silver Hawk.
> 
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
> 
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
> 
> stupidity.
> 


------------------------------------------------------------
Få din egen @start.no-adresse gratis på http://www.start.no/



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 07:06:59 -0700
Subject: Re: Betrayal at Krondor
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Wednesday, July 10, 2002, at 06:26 AM, Dennis Groome wrote:

> ahh...welcome to the wonderful world of DOS games, when each game had 
> to be
> configured by hand, and that included memory requirements,.  Sadly, it's
> been way too long for me and I can't help you, but someone else on the 
> list
> might be able to.
>
> -Dennis H. Groome V
> ICQ: 11430261 AIM/Yahoo: AmoNympham
> Microsoft Messenger: marcus_giovani@hotmail.com
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <BH10BH000@aol.com>
> To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2002 5:33 AM
> Subject: Re: Betrayal at Krondor
>
>
>> Hi
>>
>>     I've downloaded Betrayal at Krondor and the patch. However, I get a
>> message saying that I don't have enough memory, yet I have 108MB of RAM
> free
>> to be used . Does anyone know how I could solve this problem.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Ben
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
OK, remember, DOS is incredibly dumb.  It will do nothing for you.  So, 
you have to load EVERYTHING you can in himem.

If you check the Sierra tech library, there may be an old file in how to 
run BaK in a DOS window under Windows.  If you reboot and run a DOS 
session, you have to edit your autoexec so that you have lots of 
expanded memory, not just extended.  And load everything, including 
mouse drivers, himem.

Even a swap-out program will take up "too much memory" to let the game 
run, because the game only looks at the environment when you try to 
launch it.

It's a pain, and it's astonishing we sold as many games as we did given 
they wrote it as a DOS game.  At the time, there "weren't enough Windows 
game machines, dude!"  Go figure.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 09:12:42 -0700
Subject: Re: Magician 20th Anniversary edition
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Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 09:12:42 -0700
Subject: Re: Magician 20th Anniversary edition
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
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On Wednesday, July 10, 2002, at 06:32 AM, trym asserson wrote:

> Pardon my ignorance if there's a straight-forward answer to this one, 
> but isn't
> it a bit early to be touring Talon of the Silver Hawk already, esp 
> since it's
> not yet available?
> Unless there are Advance Reader's Editions of it circulating already 
> though?
>
> Or are the tours in the book-world generally carried out before the 
> newest
> publication/release is actually available? More like preview-tours in a 
> sense.
>
> Trym
>

The books will be in the stores in those markets in which I tour.  It's 
being released overseas on September 4th.

It won't be released in the US until next May.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Betrayal at Krondor
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 17:08:32 -0400
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Jul 2002 21:08:33.0047 (UTC) FILETIME=[F2CA4A70:01C22855]
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To configue BaK, try this
Adieu
Jimmy:


It is possible to run Betrayal at Krondor through Windows 95 if the memory
is set up on the computer the way Krondor needs it to be.  This can be
achieved with Windows system disk(a bootdisk for Windows 95) with a custom
CONFIG.SYS file for the game.  STEP 1: FORMATTING THE DISKPlace a blank
high-density diskette in your A: drive.  Open the My Computer icon from the
desktop and highlight the icon for Drive A:.  Right-click on the icon and
choose Format.  In the resulting dialog box, find Format Type and choose
"Full." For Other Options, choose "Copy System Files".  Click on OK to start
the process.STEP 2: COPYING THE MSDOS.SYS FILEWhile still in My Computer,
double-click on the icon for the C: drive to open it.  Look for the file
called MSDOS.SYS in the list of files.  If you cannot find it, click on the
View menu, choose Options and then the View tab.  Make sure that "Show all
files" is checked and that "Hide MS DOS file extensions.." is NOT checked.
Once you've found the file, right-click on it and choose Send To 3 œ Floppy
(A).  You will be prompted to replace an existing file. Click on OK.  STEP
3: CREATE A CUSTOM CONFIG.SYS FILEClose all windows and choose Start, then
Programs and MS-Dos Prompt.  Then type "A:"  and press ENTER.From the A:\>
prompt type EDIT CONFIG.SYS.This will bring up a blue edit screen.  Type the
following lines, word for word.
DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\HIMEM.SYSDEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\EMM386.EXE RAM 3088DOS=HIGH,
UMBNow choose File and Save, then File and Exit.  From the A:\ prompt type
EXIT and press ENTER.  Try your boot disk at this point by going to the
Start menu and choosing Shutdown and Restart the Computer with the disk in
your A: drive.  Once you boot into Windows, open up a DOS Prompt and start
the game.If the problem persists you are going to need to make a Dos
bootdisk.  There is an updated bootdisk maker on Sierra's web site. To
download our updated bootdisk maker go to the web site at:
http://www.sierra.com/support/technical/updates/content.html  After
downloading BDALL.EXE copy it to an empty directory, type BDALL and press
ENTER.  The file will extract/expand to several more files, one of which is
the bootdisk program.  To start the bootdisk program, from a DOS prompt,
change to the directory where the file was extracted the files and type:
BOOTDISK -e  and press ENTER (for a full install)orBOOTDISK -e -c and press
ENTER (for a partial install)Follow the prompts and this program will create
a bootdisk for the game. After you have made your bootdisk you will need to
use it whenever you want to play the game.  Leave the new bootdisk you have
created in the drive, and reboot the computer.  When you come up to the C:>
prompt type:CD\DYNAMIX\BAKCD and press ENTER.Then type: INSTALL and press
ENTER.  Make sure that your music setting is:  SoundBlaster / Adlib (or
compatibles)Then choose:  Accept These Choices and Save Configuration
Continue with the installation and when you get back to a DOS prompt, type:
KRONDOR and press ENTER.If a partial install was done and there still isn't
enough memory to run the game, reinstall the game under and choose Full
install.  Then remake the bootdisk using the command line for a full
install.  This will enable the program to make a disk with even more
conventional memory.



>From: "Dennis Groome" <nallix@cox.net>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
>Subject: Re: Betrayal at Krondor
>Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 08:26:29 -0500
>
>ahh...welcome to the wonderful world of DOS games, when each game had to be
>configured by hand, and that included memory requirements,.  Sadly, it's
>been way too long for me and I can't help you, but someone else on the list
>might be able to.
>
>-Dennis H. Groome V
>ICQ: 11430261 AIM/Yahoo: AmoNympham
>Microsoft Messenger: marcus_giovani@hotmail.com
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <BH10BH000@aol.com>
>To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
>Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2002 5:33 AM
>Subject: Re: Betrayal at Krondor
>
>
> > Hi
> >
> >     I've downloaded Betrayal at Krondor and the patch. However, I get a
> > message saying that I don't have enough memory, yet I have 108MB of RAM
>free
> > to be used . Does anyone know how I could solve this problem.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Ben
> >
> >




Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary 
Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
   -- Benjamin Franklin



_________________________________________________________________
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From: "A Irving" <s355156@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Magician 20th Anniversary edition
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 07:47:59 +1000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "A Irving" <s355156@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Magician 20th Anniversary edition
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 07:47:59 +1000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I paid $28.95 at target, and since Kmart and Target are both owned by
coles-myer, I got ripped off a whole dollar :)

CIAO,
       Aaron

http://www.hallofworlds.net/kerr/main.php
http://www.nightshadow.co.uk

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]
> On Behalf Of Darragh Murray
> Sent: Wednesday, 10 July 2002 4:56 PM
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Subject: RE: Magician 20th Anniversary edition
> 
> 
> I got it for $27.95, Hardback, first, at my local Kmart
> 
> > What did you guys pay for MIL because in Aus
> > it is labelled for AU$45 but I got it for AU$35
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Rob Kolech [mailto:feistfan@rogers.com]
> > Sent: Wednesday, 10 July 2002 12:23
> > To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > Subject: RE: Magician 20th Anniversary edition
> >
> >
> > The price at Amazon is:
> > £16.00
> >
> > Not too bad actually.
> >
> > Rob K.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of James Young
> > Sent: July 9, 2002 5:45 PM
> > To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > Subject: Re: Magician 20th Anniversary edition
> >
> >
> > Hmm, and they want how much for this?
> >
> > -James
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "John" <john@crydee.com>
> > To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> > Sent: Tuesday, July 09, 2002 7:18 AM
> > Subject: Magician 20th Anniversary edition
> >
> >
> > > Here is the info i received today regards Magician
> > >
> > > No leather edition. The anniversary edition will be quarterbound
> > in
> > > cloth and leatherette (I believe) with a symbol tooled onto the
> > front
> > > cover; no jacket. Interior embellishments (small cameos) by Geoff
> > > Taylor.
> > >
> > > --
> > > john@crydee.com
> > >
> > > http://www.crydee.com
> > >
> >
> >
> 
> Thanks
> Darragh
> ================================================
> msn: iamtheporkfireman@hotmail.com
> 
> "Believe or die - thank you O lord for all those
>  options" - Bill Hicks.
> ================================================



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To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Tour Info--Wellington, New Zealand
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 20:31:38 +1200
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*** EOOH ***
From: wootten@xtra.co.nz
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Tour Info--Wellington, New Zealand
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 20:31:38 +1200
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

For any kiwis near Wellington, some further info 
gleaned from a SF/F club I pestered, hoping they 
were the "right" ones:

Hi Julie,
Ah ha, I have all the info from Dymocks now. He 
will indeed be in Wellington on the 28th - signing 
at Dymocks from 12.30 to 1.15. 
<snip>
Dymocks only got the confirmation yesterday. Aparently they told REF that they would be notifying the 
local club - hence the confusion about it being 
"in association" with a club. What Mark at Dymocks 
meant was that they would be informing Phoenix - via 
me as it happens.

As far as Dymocks is concerned the tour is to 
mark the anniversary edition of Magician as well 
as promote the new riftwar paperback... 
-------------------------

I have replyed back, questioning the "new riftwar
paperback" as opposed to a hardback Talon.  
Hopefully this is just a misunderstanding.

And FINALLY next week I should get MiL.  Typical 
of me to go on holiday to the US just as it is 
released ;-)

On a happy note, congratulate me, for I am now 
off the market.  Yes, I've tricked some poor sad 
soul into proposing to me (and very romantically, 
I might add).

Julie.



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From: "Donal K. Fellows" <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
In-reply-to: <20020711083138.EEUF12087.web2-rme.xtra.co.nz@[127.0.0.1]>
	(wootten@xtra.co.nz)
Subject: Re: Tour Info--Wellington, New Zealand
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Donal K. Fellows" <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Tour Info--Wellington, New Zealand
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 10:03:06 +0100
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wootten@xtra.co.nz
> On a happy note, congratulate me, for I am now off the market.  Yes,
> I've tricked some poor sad soul into proposing to me (and very
> romantically, I might add).

Congratulations, as requested.  <bg>

Donal.
-- 
Donal K. Fellows, Department of Computer Science, University of Manchester, UK.
(work) fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk     Tel: +44-161-275-6137  (preferred email addr.)
(home) donal@ugglan.demon.co.uk  Tel: +44-1274-401017   Mobile: +44-7957-298955
http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~fellowsd/  (Don't quote my .sig; I've seen it before!)



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Thought some of you might like to know. The 'Talon of the Silver Hawk'
novel is available for pre-order at a discount at
http://www.silveroak.co.uk/ . Going at £12.23 + £2.95 p&p on any
order.

Seeing as I've seen alot of price-comparing lately I thought it'd be
of interest.

all the best,

Trym

------------------------------------------------------------
Få din egen @start.no-adresse gratis på http://www.start.no/



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Organization: Georgia Tech
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 10:09:23 -0400
From: Jud Partin <jpartin@vorlon.eas.gatech.edu>
Organization: Georgia Tech
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Magician 20th Anniversary edition
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Is Talon of the Silver Hawk the last book in the Riftwar Legacy, or the first
book in the Conclave of the Shadows Series? Or neither?

Thanks,
Jud

(If it's the first in the Shadows series, then "DOOOH!"... followed by many
curses to the marketing geniuses for the late US release)


Raymond Feist wrote:

> >
> >
> No, I'm not touring for Murder in LaMut.  I'm touring for Talon of the
> Silver Hawk.
>
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
>
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
> stupidity.



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Subject: Re: Touring
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Alan Noonan" <alannoonan@iinet.net.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Touring
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 23:54:01 +0800
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Now THAT is a good reply!!

Alan
----- Original Message ----- 
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, July 09, 2002 12:42 PM
Subject: Re: Touring


> 
> On Monday, July 8, 2002, at 08:34 PM, Dicken Joseph wrote:
> 
> > Hey Ray,
> >    Are you coming to the U.S. anytime soon?
> >                                       Joe
> >
> > =====
> >
> 
> Actually, I live in the U.S.
> 
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
> 
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
> stupidity.
> 
> 
> 



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Subject: Re: Magician 20th Anniversary edition
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 09:08:53 -0700
Subject: Re: Magician 20th Anniversary edition
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On Thursday, July 11, 2002, at 07:09 AM, Jud Partin wrote:

> Is Talon of the Silver Hawk the last book in the Riftwar Legacy, or the 
> first
> book in the Conclave of the Shadows Series? Or neither?
>
> Thanks,
> Jud
>
> (If it's the first in the Shadows series, then "DOOOH!"... followed by 
> many
> curses to the marketing geniuses for the late US release)
>

First of Conclave.

Best, R.E.F.



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Subject: PC/online games down the line?
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Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 18:56:43 +0200 (CEST)
From: trym asserson <teeba@start.no>
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*** EOOH ***
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: PC/online games down the line?
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 18:56:43 +0200 (CEST)
From: trym asserson <teeba@start.no>
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I skimmed through the FAQ for this list the other day and noticed that Ray
mentioned something once about an online game being planned down the line (this
was in answer to the stance on internet mass-user games).

I take it that the reference was not being made to Return to Krondor back then,
so I'm curious whether there's still plans to go online amidst all the current
writing projects?

Seeing how BaK and RtK turned out to become two of my favourite pc-games ever,
naturally the prospect of another game in this fantasy world is amazingly
appealing to say the least.

Regards,

Trym

------------------------------------------------------------
Få din egen @start.no-adresse gratis på http://www.start.no/



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*** EOOH ***
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In a message dated 7/11/02 6:49:32 AM Central Daylight Time, teeba@start.no 
writes:
>Thought some of you might like to know. The 'Talon of the Silver Hawk' novel is
>available for pre-order at a discount at http://www.silveroak.co.uk/ . Going at
>£12.23 + £2.95 p&p on any order.
>
>Seeing as I've seen alot of price-comparing lately I thought it'd be of interest.
>
>all the best,
>
>Trym

How much of a role does the Conclave have a part in this one Ray?  



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*** EOOH ***
From: JEEPMONSTER69@aol.com
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 14:05:58 EDT
Subject: FAQ
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Can anyone tell me where I can find the FAQ? Ive looked, but cant seem to 
find it. Any help would be appreciated (mainly to keep me from looking like a 
schmuck).

                                                 Thanks,

                                                                         Matt

"Lets Roll."- Todd Beamer
USA, Muthafacko!

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Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 22:26:27 +0200
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From: Simon Rönnberg <rhuagh@acc.umu.se>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: FAQ
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 22:26:27 +0200
From: Simon Rönnberg <rhuagh@acc.umu.se>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: FAQ
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> Can anyone tell me where I can find the FAQ? Ive looked, but cant seem to 
> find it. Any help would be appreciated (mainly to keep me from looking like a 
> schmuck).

http://www.psihawk.com/feist/

Cheers,
Simon

-- 
Simon Rönnberg,    adm@acc.umu.se |  rhuagh@acc.umu.se
Stipendiegränd 6A, 070-5631747    |  simion@cs.umu.se
907 35 Umeå
--
"God, root, what is difference?" - Pitr, www.userfriendly.org
--



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Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 16:26:30 -0400
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From: Jud Partin <jpartin@vorlon.eas.gatech.edu>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 16:26:30 -0400
From: Jud Partin <jpartin@vorlon.eas.gatech.edu>
Organization: Georgia Tech
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Magician 20th Anniversary edition
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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How sad. Big wait for good books = no fun. But no use crying over something
you can't change.

BTW, with demons in the fifth and the dread in the seventh- what vicious,
little nasties reside in the sixth circle of hell? And would any be welcome
at Honest John's?

Thanks,
Jud

Raymond Feist wrote:

> On Thursday, July 11, 2002, at 07:09 AM, Jud Partin wrote:
>
> > Is Talon of the Silver Hawk the last book in the Riftwar Legacy, or the
> > first
> > book in the Conclave of the Shadows Series? Or neither?
>
>
> First of Conclave.
>
> Best, R.E.F.



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Subject: Re: PC/online games down the line?
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References: <DD10B7A5-941F-11D6-A3C7-003065A8A644@bittersea.com>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 21:27:45 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: Al Burrell <al.burl@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: Re: PC/online games down the line?
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At 18:56 11/07/2002 +0200, trym asserson wrote:

>I take it that the reference was not being made to Return to Krondor back 
>then,
>so I'm curious whether there's still plans to go online amidst all the current
>writing projects?

I believe you'll get an answer something along the lines of "I can't 
comment on this at the moment."
;)

Al



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 14:19:35 -0700
Subject: Re: PC/online games down the line?
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Thursday, July 11, 2002, at 09:56 AM, trym asserson wrote:

> I skimmed through the FAQ for this list the other day and noticed that 
> Ray
> mentioned something once about an online game being planned down the 
> line (this
> was in answer to the stance on internet mass-user games).
>
> I take it that the reference was not being made to Return to Krondor 
> back then,
> so I'm curious whether there's still plans to go online amidst all the 
> current
> writing projects?
>
> Seeing how BaK and RtK turned out to become two of my favourite 
> pc-games ever,
> naturally the prospect of another game in this fantasy world is 
> amazingly
> appealing to say the least.
>
> Regards,
>
> Trym
>

There are certain projects about which all I can say is:

I can not comment on that at this time.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 14:20:12 -0700
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 14:20:12 -0700
Subject: Re: TotSH
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Thursday, July 11, 2002, at 10:35 AM, Gkhd11a@aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 7/11/02 6:49:32 AM Central Daylight Time, 
> teeba@start.no
> writes:
>
> << Thought some of you might like to know. The 'Talon of the Silver 
> Hawk'
> novel is
>  available for pre-order at a discount at http://www.silveroak.co.uk/ . 
> Going
> at
>  £12.23 + £2.95 p&p on any order.
>
>  Seeing as I've seen alot of price-comparing lately I thought it'd be of
> interest.
>
>  all the best,
>
>  Trym >>
>
> How much of a role does the Conclave have a part in this one Ray?
>
>
>
>

Well, the book is Conclave of Shadows: Book I, if that's a clue.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 14:21:35 -0700
Subject: Re: Magician 20th Anniversary edition
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 14:21:35 -0700
Subject: Re: Magician 20th Anniversary edition
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Thursday, July 11, 2002, at 01:26 PM, Jud Partin wrote:

> How sad. Big wait for good books = no fun. But no use crying over 
> something
> you can't change.
>
> BTW, with demons in the fifth and the dread in the seventh- what 
> vicious,
> little nasties reside in the sixth circle of hell? And would any be 
> welcome
> at Honest John's?
>
> Thanks,
> Jud
>

Sixth would be the "children of the void," which would include critters 
like wraiths, specters, and other life draining critters, but with some 
physical properties.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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From: Paul Duthie <pduthie@ncable.net.au>
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Hello All



Thursday, July 11, 2002, 6:31:38 PM, you wrote:


wxcn> On a happy note, congratulate me, for I am now 
wxcn> off the market.  Yes, I've tricked some poor sad 
wxcn> soul into proposing to me (and very romantically, 
wxcn> I might add).

wxcn> Julie.

Congratulations

-- 
Best regards,
 Paul                            mailto:pduthie@ncable.net.au



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Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2002 11:07:40 +1200 (NZST)
From: Richard Stevenson <richard.stevenson@team.xtra.co.nz>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Tour Info--Wellington, New Zealand
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On Thu, 11 Jul 2002 wootten@xtra.co.nz wrote:

> On a happy note, congratulate me, for I am now
> off the market.  Yes, I've tricked some poor sad
> soul into proposing to me (and very romantically,
> I might add).

<delurk>

Congratulations, Julie.  I hope you're both very happy for a very long
time :)

Cheers

Richard

</delurk>


-- 
Richard Stevenson
Systems Specialist
Xtra Limited
http://www.xtra.co.nz




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Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 17:03:21 -0700 (PDT)
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From: Chris Vance <pikachu_chris@yahoo.com.sg>
Subject: Re: PC/online games down the line?
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 17:03:21 -0700 (PDT)
From: Chris Vance <pikachu_chris@yahoo.com.sg>
Subject: Re: PC/online games down the line?
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Can't you hear the distant theme song from MI...

Ray is actually a secret agent and his works are
actually war manuals crafted to seem like fantasy
literature. That's why he has to be secretive about
his works. DOH!

FBI, NSA and CIA will soon be on my tail for letting
the cat out of the bag.


--- Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com> wrote:
> 
> On Thursday, July 11, 2002, at 09:56 AM, trym
> asserson wrote:
> 
> > I skimmed through the FAQ for this list the other
> day and noticed that 
> > Ray
> > mentioned something once about an online game
> being planned down the 
> > line (this
> > was in answer to the stance on internet mass-user
> games).
> >
> > I take it that the reference was not being made to
> Return to Krondor 
> > back then,
> > so I'm curious whether there's still plans to go
> online amidst all the 
> > current
> > writing projects?
> >
> > Seeing how BaK and RtK turned out to become two of
> my favourite 
> > pc-games ever,
> > naturally the prospect of another game in this
> fantasy world is 
> > amazingly
> > appealing to say the least.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Trym
> >
> 
> There are certain projects about which all I can say
> is:
> 
> I can not comment on that at this time.
> 
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
> 
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be
> explained away by 
> stupidity.
> 


=====
The Brainless

__________________________________________________
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Subject: Re: TotSH
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 17:05:12 -0700 (PDT)
From: Chris Vance <pikachu_chris@yahoo.com.sg>
Subject: Re: TotSH
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Dear All,

I may have missed something in the previous writeups.
Is this going to be published in the states or is it a
UK only book (again)!

CIA
--- Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com> wrote:
> 
> On Thursday, July 11, 2002, at 10:35 AM,
> Gkhd11a@aol.com wrote:
> 
> > In a message dated 7/11/02 6:49:32 AM Central
> Daylight Time, 
> > teeba@start.no
> > writes:
> >
> > << Thought some of you might like to know. The
> 'Talon of the Silver 
> > Hawk'
> > novel is
> >  available for pre-order at a discount at
> http://www.silveroak.co.uk/ . 
> > Going
> > at
> >  £12.23 + £2.95 p&p on any order.
> >
> >  Seeing as I've seen alot of price-comparing
> lately I thought it'd be of
> > interest.
> >
> >  all the best,
> >
> >  Trym >>
> >
> > How much of a role does the Conclave have a part
> in this one Ray?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> 
> Well, the book is Conclave of Shadows: Book I, if
> that's a clue.
> 
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
> 
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be
> explained away by 
> stupidity.
> 


=====
The Brainless

__________________________________________________
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 17:10:32 -0700 (PDT)
From: Chris Vance <pikachu_chris@yahoo.com.sg>
Subject: Re: Tour Info--Wellington, New Zealand
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Congrats. 

Does he know about your other love in life?

I mean reading Feist.

CIA
--- "Donal K. Fellows" <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk> wrote:
> wootten@xtra.co.nz
> > On a happy note, congratulate me, for I am now off
> the market.  Yes,
> > I've tricked some poor sad soul into proposing to
> me (and very
> > romantically, I might add).
> 
> Congratulations, as requested.  <bg>
> 
> Donal.
> -- 
> Donal K. Fellows, Department of Computer Science,
> University of Manchester, UK.
> (work) fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk     Tel:
> +44-161-275-6137  (preferred email addr.)
> (home) donal@ugglan.demon.co.uk  Tel:
> +44-1274-401017   Mobile: +44-7957-298955
> http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~fellowsd/  (Don't quote my
> .sig; I've seen it before!)
> 


=====
The Brainless

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*** EOOH ***
From: wootten@xtra.co.nz
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Tour Info--Wellington, New Zealand
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2002 12:44:21 +1200
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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> Does he know about your other love in life?
> 
> I mean reading Feist.
> 
> CIA

He approves of REF, because his books tend not to 
contain any of *those* scenes that make me bawl my 
eyes out(e.g. the Nighteyes scene in the most recent 
Robin Hobbs).  He thinks he's forbidden those. ::grin::

Julie.



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From: "Rob Kolech" <feistfan@rogers.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: TotSH
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 22:37:04 -0400
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Rob Kolech" <feistfan@rogers.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: TotSH
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 22:37:04 -0400
X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at fep03-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com from [24.102.215.75] using ID <feistfan@rogers.com> at Thu, 11 Jul 2002 22:37:10 -0400
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

It will come out in the US market... eventually.  Probably in the spring
sometime about 1/2 a year AFTER its out in the UK.  So if you want it early
get it shipped from UK (like I usually do)  The price (for me) is almost the
same as if I was to buy it here. (here being Canada) Heh.

Rob K.

-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Chris Vance
>Sent: July 11, 2002 8:05 PM
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: Re: TotSH
>
>
>Dear All,
>
>I may have missed something in the previous writeups.
>Is this going to be published in the states or is it a
>UK only book (again)!
>
>CIA
>--- Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com> wrote:
>>
>> On Thursday, July 11, 2002, at 10:35 AM,
>> Gkhd11a@aol.com wrote:
>>
>> > In a message dated 7/11/02 6:49:32 AM Central
>> Daylight Time,
>> > teeba@start.no
>> > writes:
>> >
>> > << Thought some of you might like to know. The
>> 'Talon of the Silver
>> > Hawk'
>> > novel is
>> >  available for pre-order at a discount at
>> http://www.silveroak.co.uk/ .
>> > Going
>> > at
>> >  #12.23 + #2.95 p&p on any order.
>> >
>> >  Seeing as I've seen alot of price-comparing
>> lately I thought it'd be of
>> > interest.
>> >
>> >  all the best,
>> >
>> >  Trym >>
>> >
>> > How much of a role does the Conclave have a part
>> in this one Ray?
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>> Well, the book is Conclave of Shadows: Book I, if
>> that's a clue.
>>
>> Best, R.E.F.
>> ----
>>
>> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be
>> explained away by
>> stupidity.
>>
>
>
>=====
>The Brainless
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Sign up for SBC Yahoo! Dial - First Month Free
>http://sbc.yahoo.com
>



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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Betrayal at Krondor (getting to run on w2k, XP, and possibly ME?)
Message-ID: <1026458427.3d2e833bcaceb@nyepost.start.no>
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2002 09:20:27 +0200 (CEST)
From: trym asserson <teeba@start.no>
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*** EOOH ***
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Betrayal at Krondor (getting to run on w2k, XP, and possibly ME?)
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2002 09:20:27 +0200 (CEST)
From: trym asserson <teeba@start.no>
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Enter the wonderful world of VDMSound
(http://www.ece.mcgill.ca/~vromas/vdmsound/). It's primarily a program to
overcome problems with sound support limitations in DOS boxes, but I've found
that once that's sorted usually your memory limitations just went away too.

Just install the application. After having done so, you'll have a new item on
your short-cut menu (the one that pops up when you RIGHT-click on an
application) which says 'Run with VDMS'. When you've unzipped/installed Krondor
on your disk, RIGHT-click on the Krondor application and choose that option.
Running in its 'shell' you should then get your fav BaK up and running in no time.

It worked on w2k for me (should be same for XP, but prog states it does not work
for ME so maybe it doesn't), no magic (because there is no magic?), no hacking
of configuration files, just plain, straight-forward installation of my new
favourite utility, VDMSound.

Hope it helps,

Cheers!
Trym

Quoting Dennis Groome <nallix@cox.net>:
> ahh...welcome to the wonderful world of DOS games, when each game had to
> be
> configured by hand, and that included memory requirements,.  Sadly,
> it's
> been way too long for me and I can't help you, but someone else on the
> list
> might be able to.
> 
> -Dennis H. Groome V
> ICQ: 11430261 AIM/Yahoo: AmoNympham
> Microsoft Messenger: marcus_giovani@hotmail.com
> 

------------------------------------------------------------
Få din egen @start.no-adresse gratis på http://www.start.no/



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From: "Reinhardt Gerber" <Reinhardt@Basix.co.za>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
References: <f7.1de1a9e6.2a5d6764@aol.com> <007701c22815$c183cda0$0200a8c0@D1N09511> <1026458427.3d2e833bcaceb@nyepost.start.no>
Subject: Re: Betrayal at Krondor (getting to run on w2k, XP, and possibly ME?)
Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 11:40:40 +0200
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Reinhardt Gerber" <Reinhardt@Basix.co.za>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Betrayal at Krondor (getting to run on w2k, XP, and possibly ME?)
Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 11:40:40 +0200
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Thanx alot, This will help me stax, because I'm running XP and was wondering
how I would get past the DOS problem.

Reinhardt

----- Original Message -----
>From: "trym asserson" <teeba@start.no>
>To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
>Sent: Friday, July 12, 2002 9:20 AM
>Subject: Re: Betrayal at Krondor (getting to run on w2k, XP, and possibly
>ME?)
>
>
>Enter the wonderful world of VDMSound
>(http://www.ece.mcgill.ca/~vromas/vdmsound/). It's primarily a program to
>overcome problems with sound support limitations in DOS boxes, but I've
>found
>that once that's sorted usually your memory limitations just went away too.
>
>Just install the application. After having done so, you'll have a new item
>on
>your short-cut menu (the one that pops up when you RIGHT-click on an
>application) which says 'Run with VDMS'. When you've unzipped/installed
>Krondor
>on your disk, RIGHT-click on the Krondor application and choose that option.
>Running in its 'shell' you should then get your fav BaK up and running in no
>time.
>
>It worked on w2k for me (should be same for XP, but prog states it does not
>work
>for ME so maybe it doesn't), no magic (because there is no magic?), no
>hacking
>of configuration files, just plain, straight-forward installation of my new
>favourite utility, VDMSound.
>
>Hope it helps,
>
>Cheers!
>Trym
>
>Quoting Dennis Groome <nallix@cox.net>:
>> ahh...welcome to the wonderful world of DOS games, when each game had to
>> be
>> configured by hand, and that included memory requirements,.  Sadly,
>> it's
>> been way too long for me and I can't help you, but someone else on the
>> list
>> might be able to.
>>
>> -Dennis H. Groome V
>> ICQ: 11430261 AIM/Yahoo: AmoNympham
>> Microsoft Messenger: marcus_giovani@hotmail.com
>>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------
>Få din egen @start.no-adresse gratis på http://www.start.no/

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Subject: Circle inhabitants
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2002 16:30:28 -0400
From: Jud Partin <jpartin@vorlon.eas.gatech.edu>
Organization: Georgia Tech
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Circle inhabitants
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu



Raymond Feist wrote:

> On Thursday, July 11, 2002, at 01:26 PM, Jud Partin wrote:
>
> > How sad. Big wait for good books = no fun. But no use crying over
> > something
> > you can't change.
> >
> > BTW, with demons in the fifth and the dread in the seventh- what
> > vicious,
> > little nasties reside in the sixth circle of hell? And would any be
> > welcome
> > at Honest John's?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Jud
> >
>
> Sixth would be the "children of the void," which would include critters
> like wraiths, specters, and other life draining critters, but with some
> physical properties.
>
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
>
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
> stupidity.

The unwelcome wraiths... so a creature from the 5th, 6th, and 7th Circles
of Hell have reared their ugly heads. A wraith jumped Pug and Thomas' party
in the dwarven mines, dread and dreadlords have popped up in key locations
a few times, and the whole demon realm tried to enter Midkemia via Shila.

Would it be correct if I said that as a creature from one of the circles of
hell gets stronger/higher status, it communicates more (directly) with
Nalar? Like Jakan who had the strong "urgings" to get the Lifestone. I
wonder how much Maarg knew... Also would inhabitants have more direct
communication with Nalar as the circle of hell gets lower, ie. 5th < 6th <
7th?

Sorry for the pestering with the questions, but since I'll have to wait
longer to get the new Conclave book here in the ole US- I need the info.
fix!

Thanks and have a good weekend,
Jud



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Subject: Re: Magician 20th Anniversary edition
From: Ziad El-Hajj <pilgrim@inco.com.lb>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Date: 13 Jul 2002 00:03:14 +0300
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On Fri, 2002-07-12 at 00:21, Raymond Feist wrote:
> 
> On Thursday, July 11, 2002, at 01:26 PM, Jud Partin wrote:
> 
> > How sad. Big wait for good books = no fun. But no use crying over 
> > something
> > you can't change.
> >
> > BTW, with demons in the fifth and the dread in the seventh- what 
> > vicious,
> > little nasties reside in the sixth circle of hell? And would any be 
> > welcome
> > at Honest John's?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Jud
> >
> 
> Sixth would be the "children of the void," which would include critters 
> like wraiths, specters, and other life draining critters, but with some 
> physical properties.
> 
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
> 
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
> stupidity.
> 

Now wait a minute... I am SURE that the book mention the Demons as being
from the Fifth, and the Dread as being from the Sixth, not the Seventh.

SPOILERS FOR SHARDS OF A BROKEN CROWN




















Besides, I am sure that Zaltais was from the Seventh, and he was much more
"alien" to Midkemia than even the Dread.

Did I misread things somewhere? Aren't the Dread part of the children of
the void in the first place?

Ziad



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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On 12 Jul 2002, at 16:30, Jud Partin wrote:

> The unwelcome wraiths... so a creature from the 5th, 6th, and 7th Circles
> of Hell have reared their ugly heads. A wraith jumped Pug and Thomas' party
> in the dwarven mines, dread and dreadlords have popped up in key locations
> a few times, and the whole demon realm tried to enter Midkemia via Shila.
> 

Speaking of which, how did that wraith get out of the 6th circle of 
hell and onto Midkemia and into Mac Mordain Cadal in the first 
place?  And the dwarves seemed to know that they were lurking 
about down there, so I'm guessing they've been there for a while.  
Perhaps just another remnant from the Chaos Wars?

-----
Ben Nielson
The Hall of Worlds - http://feist.hallofworlds.net
"If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, riddle them with arrows."



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From: Chris Vance <pikachu_chris@yahoo.com.sg>
Subject: Re: Magician 20th Anniversary edition
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Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2002 17:39:14 -0700 (PDT)
From: Chris Vance <pikachu_chris@yahoo.com.sg>
Subject: Re: Magician 20th Anniversary edition
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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> > Sixth would be the "children of the void," which
> would include critters 
> > like wraiths, specters, and other life draining
> critters, but with some 
> > physical properties.
> > 
> > Best, R.E.F.
> > ----
> > 
> > Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily
> be explained away by 
> > stupidity.
> > 
> 
> Now wait a minute... I am SURE that the book mention
> the Demons as being
> from the Fifth, and the Dread as being from the
> Sixth, not the Seventh.
> 
> SPOILERS FOR SHARDS OF A BROKEN CROWN
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Besides, I am sure that Zaltais was from the
> Seventh, and he was much more
> "alien" to Midkemia than even the Dread.
> 
> Did I misread things somewhere? Aren't the Dread
> part of the children of
> the void in the first place?
> 
> Ziad
> 
I always thought that Zaltais was a dream of the
"unnamed" one and not really an actual seventh circle
entity. That's why he was more alien.

=====
The Brainless

__________________________________________________
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From: "Flynn Boyle" <cannibalistic_hen@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Some Questions for Ray
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From: "Flynn Boyle" <cannibalistic_hen@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Some Questions for Ray
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Hi Ray,
	I’ve been a big fan of your books for the last seven years. Its by far the 
best fantasy I’ve come across. Lately I’ve become a bit of an 
obsessive-compulsive on all things Midkemian. Most of the questions I’ve 
ever had, I’ve found the answers to, but I a few I have not found. I’d 
really love to know the answers to these questions. Answer as many or as few 
as you like.
Thanks a lot,
                       Flynn.

1. I’ve read conflicting things, is the Serpent War the second Riftwar?

2. Does a Riftwar occur in Conclave? (I’m prepared to wait for the books for 
this)

3. On the FAQ page I saw a reference to “The Shadow War Saga”, is this the 
same as Conclave? If not, is it the next series after Conclave?

4. Any idea what happens when the literary Midkemia reaches the era of the 
role-playing Midkemia?

5. Do the Hadati live on the Thunderhell? If not, then who does?

6. Are the Dukes of the Southern Marches and Sunst Islands full, landed 
dukes with “full rights and priveleges pertaining thereunto”, such as 
Crydee, Yabon, where ever else, or are they Court Dukes?

7. Is Ethel-Duath the same as Winet?

8. When will Rich Spahl’s Winetians make an appearance in the literary 
Midkemia? (If ever). (And whats this on the FAQ list about a regiment of 
Highlanders in Winet?)

9. Do the Crimson Eagles really get integrated into the regular army? Why 
can’t they become an SAS-style force?

10. Does what Chogana say to Pug in the swamp camp (“He was the most 
dangerous opponent of all. He was yourself”) in Magician have any bearing on 
later books or did it apply only to the Tower of Testing?

11. Any thoughts on doing a Legends of the Riftwar book based on the 
Captains of Durbin/Sunset Islands? (I’d love to read more about Trenchard, 
White-Eye, et al).



_________________________________________________________________
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From: "Greg Bulloch" <somedude1_2000@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re: Magician 20th Anniversary edition
Date: Sat, 13 Jul 2002 15:25:17 +1000
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Subject: Re: Magician 20th Anniversary edition
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just curious, how many in both the legacy and concave series and what are 
the names of the books

>From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: Re: Magician 20th Anniversary edition
>Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 09:08:53 -0700
>
>
>On Thursday, July 11, 2002, at 07:09 AM, Jud Partin wrote:
>
>>Is Talon of the Silver Hawk the last book in the Riftwar Legacy, or the 
>>first
>>book in the Conclave of the Shadows Series? Or neither?
>>
>>Thanks,
>>Jud
>>
>>(If it's the first in the Shadows series, then "DOOOH!"... followed by 
>>many
>>curses to the marketing geniuses for the late US release)
>>
>
>First of Conclave.
>
>Best, R.E.F.




_________________________________________________________________
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On Sat, 2002-07-13 at 03:39, Chris Vance wrote:

> > SPOILERS FOR SHARDS OF A BROKEN CROWN
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 

> I always thought that Zaltais was a dream of the
> "unnamed" one and not really an actual seventh circle
> entity. That's why he was more alien.
> 
> =====
> The Brainless


I don't know... Zaltais himself claimed to be an Angel from the Seventh
Circle, but at the same time Nakor was claiming he was a liar... I never
really sorted that out.
Any comments on the matter Ray?

Ziad



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Nice web site! Not seen it before.

-----
Ben Nielson
The Hall of Worlds - http://feist.hallofworlds.net
"If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, riddle them with arrows."

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The Chaos wars intrigue me especially the Valheru.
Peronally I would love to see a book dedicated to them at the height of
their power.
Probably much in the same way as the new Jimmy the Hand book might be. 
This is just musings on not a request Ray ;-).
Regards
Chris
"People are more violently opposed to fur than leather because it's safer to
harass rich women than motorcycle gangs." 
Unknown

>Speaking of which, how did that wraith get out of the 6th circle of 
>hell and onto Midkemia and into Mac Mordain Cadal in the first 
>place? And the dwarves seemed to know that they were lurking 
>about down there, so I'm guessing they've been there for a while. 
>Perhaps just another remnant from the Chaos Wars?

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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sat, 13 Jul 2002 10:00:18 -0700
Subject: Re: Some Questions for Ray
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
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On Friday, July 12, 2002, at 09:09 PM, Flynn Boyle wrote:

> Hi Ray,
> 	Iíve been a big fan of your books for the last seven years. Its by 
> far the best fantasy Iíve come across. Lately Iíve become a bit of an 
> obsessive-compulsive on all things Midkemian. Most of the questions 
> Iíve ever had, Iíve found the answers to, but I a few I have not found. 
> Iíd really love to know the answers to these questions. Answer as many 
> or as few as you like.
> Thanks a lot,
>                       Flynn.
>
> 1. Iíve read conflicting things, is the Serpent War the second Riftwar?

Yes.

>
> 2. Does a Riftwar occur in Conclave? (Iím prepared to wait for the 
> books for this)

The Conclave series will either lead into the series (2 conclave/3 
riftwar) or will include it (5 books in the conclave) which will be a 
marketing decision I'll reach with HarperCollins after the 2nd book is 
published.  Either way, the third riftwar is concluded in four more 
books.

>
> 3. On the FAQ page I saw a reference to ìThe Shadow War Sagaî, is this 
> the same as Conclave? If not, is it the next series after Conclave?
>
Same.  Shadowwar didn't scan well.

> 4. Any idea what happens when the literary Midkemia reaches the era of 
> the role-playing Midkemia?

Probably will never happen.  I can see at least a dozen books before I 
finish the 5th Riftwar.  After that, there's 500 years between then and 
the game era.

>
> 5. Do the Hadati live on the Thunderhell? If not, then who does?

A nomadic people who have yet to be named.  The Hadati are hill people 
living in Yabon.

>
> 6. Are the Dukes of the Southern Marches and Sunst Islands full, landed 
> dukes with ìfull rights and priveleges pertaining thereuntoî, such as 
> Crydee, Yabon, where ever else, or are they Court Dukes?

Sunset is landed.  Sutherland wasn't until the Serpentwar.  It was a 
military designation more than anything else, similar in some ways to 
the Border Barons.  After the Serpentwar it became landed, with the seat 
being Port Vykor.

>
> 7. Is Ethel-Duath the same as Winet?

The Ethel-Duath is the upper plateau of Winet, where the Saaur went to 
live.
>
> 8. When will Rich Spahlís Winetians make an appearance in the literary 
> Midkemia? (If ever). (And whats this on the FAQ list about a regiment 
> of Highlanders in Winet?)

Probably never.  Rich's lizard critters are too "alien" i.e. 
technilogical for me to use which is why I substituted the Saaur.  And 
we certainly will not have his lost regiment of Highlanders running 
around.
>
> 9. Do the Crimson Eagles really get integrated into the regular army? 
> Why canít they become an SAS-style force?

Special companies tend to have finite duration.  One of the risks of 
such is they become loyal to a commander rather than a crown.  When Erik 
became Knight-Marshal of Krondor, the Crimson Eagles ceased to exist.

>
> 10. Does what Chogana say to Pug in the swamp camp (ìHe was the most 
> dangerous opponent of all. He was yourselfî) in Magician have any 
> bearing on later books or did it apply only to the Tower of Testing?

It pertains to Pug's entire life.

>
> 11. Any thoughts on doing a Legends of the Riftwar book based on the 
> Captains of Durbin/Sunset Islands? (Iíd love to read more about 
> Trenchard, White-Eye, et al).

No, hadn't thought of it.  But it would be a fun idea.  Maybe if I work 
with Bill Forstchen again I'll suggest it to him.  He's as big a 
Forester/O'Brian freak as he is a Civil War hound.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Date: Sat, 13 Jul 2002 10:02:29 -0700
Subject: Re: Magician 20th Anniversary edition
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Date: Sat, 13 Jul 2002 10:02:29 -0700
Subject: Re: Magician 20th Anniversary edition
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
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On Saturday, July 13, 2002, at 05:01 AM, Ziad El-Hajj wrote:

> On Sat, 2002-07-13 at 03:39, Chris Vance wrote:
>
>>> SPOILERS FOR SHARDS OF A BROKEN CROWN
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
>> I always thought that Zaltais was a dream of the
>> "unnamed" one and not really an actual seventh circle
>> entity. That's why he was more alien.
>>
>> =====
>> The Brainless
>
>
> I don't know... Zaltais himself claimed to be an Angel from the Seventh
> Circle, but at the same time Nakor was claiming he was a liar... I never
> really sorted that out.
> Any comments on the matter Ray?
>
> Ziad
>
>
>
>
Sure.  Never believe anything you read.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Date: Sat, 13 Jul 2002 10:04:29 -0700
Subject: Re: Chaos wars Was Re: Circle inhabitants
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sat, 13 Jul 2002 10:04:29 -0700
Subject: Re: Chaos wars Was Re: Circle inhabitants
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
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On Saturday, July 13, 2002, at 08:35 AM, Milamber wrote:

>
>
> The Chaos wars intrigue me especially the Valheru.
>
> Peronally I would love to see a book dedicated to them at the height of 
> their power.
> Probably much in the same way as the new Jimmy the Hand book might be.
> This is just musings on not a request Ray ;-).
>
> Regards
> Chris
>
>
>

Personally, I think it would be pretty boring, insofar as you don't have 
anyone to root for; the Valheru are not nice folks.  Lots of gratuitious 
killing and conquest.

Naw, I've written as much about that war as I want to, during the flash 
backs in Magician/Darkness.  I might touch on that history again in the 
Fifth Rifwar, as a peek inside Tomas's head, again, but that would be it.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.

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Date: Sat, 13 Jul 2002 10:02:01 -0700
Subject: Re: Magician 20th Anniversary edition
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sat, 13 Jul 2002 10:02:01 -0700
Subject: Re: Magician 20th Anniversary edition
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
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On Friday, July 12, 2002, at 10:25 PM, Greg Bulloch wrote:

>
> just curious, how many in both the legacy and concave series and what 
> are the names of the books
>
>>

Legacy is Betrayal, Assassins, Tear of the Gods, The Crawler, The Dark 
Mage (the last two are not written nor even contracted for).  Conclave 
is Talon of the Silver Hawk (just finished and published in the UK in 
Sep, in the US in May) King of Foxes, and three more books to be titled 
later (or they will be called the 3rd Riftwar Saga--we don't know yet).

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
From: Gkhd11a@aol.com
Date: Sat, 13 Jul 2002 16:37:57 EDT
Subject: Re: Some Questions for Ray
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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In a message dated 7/13/02 12:24:14 PM Central Daylight Time, 
raymond@bittersea.com writes:
>> 1. Iíve read conflicting things, is the Serpent War the second Riftwar?
>
>Yes.

Why is the Serpent War considered a Riftwar?  The only time there was a rift 
and a war was at the very beggining.



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sat, 13 Jul 2002 16:09:12 -0700
Subject: Re: Some Questions for Ray
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On Saturday, July 13, 2002, at 01:37 PM, Gkhd11a@aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 7/13/02 12:24:14 PM Central Daylight Time,
> raymond@bittersea.com writes:
>
> << > 1. Iíve read conflicting things, is the Serpent War the second 
> Riftwar?
>
>  Yes. >>
>
> Why is the Serpent War considered a Riftwar?  The only time there was a 
> rift
> and a war was at the very beggining.
>
>
>
>

OK, pay close attention.

1) There was a rift.

2) There was a war.

Seriously, any war that results from a rift is going to be called a 
Riftwar.  The rift doesn't have to stay open all the time.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sat, 13 Jul 2002 17:04:15 -0700 (PDT)
From: Ben <volsballa34@yahoo.com>
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 Id personally like to hear the story of where they fought and
conquered the worlds who were so advanced they had ships the size of
cities and whatnot. I think thats what it said. But that would be
really interesting to hear about.
  Milamber <milamber_aka_pug@hotmail.com> wrote:
>The Chaos wars intrigue me especially the Valheru.
>
>Peronally I would love to see a book dedicated to them at the height of their power.
>Probably much in the same way as the new Jimmy the Hand book might be. 
>This is just musings on not a request Ray ;-).
>
>Regards
>Chris
>
>"People are more violently opposed to fur than leather because it's safer to harass rich women than motorcycle gangs." 
>   Unknown 
>
>>Speaking of which, how did that wraith get out of the 6th circle of 
>>hell and onto Midkemia and into Mac Mordain Cadal in the first 
>>place? And the dwarves seemed to know that they were lurking 
>>about down there, so I'm guessing they've been there for a while. 
>>Perhaps just another remnant from the Chaos Wars?
>
>
>____________________________________________________
>  IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved - Click Here 
>

---------------------------------
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From: DuncanMacLeod89@aol.com
Date: Sat, 13 Jul 2002 20:26:01 EDT
Subject: Re: Some Questions for Ray
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Hey Ray, I was wondering, how many more books to you plan to write using 
Midkemia? Thanks.

-Chance
"We who are truly brave, will never live in fear."-The Rock

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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sat, 13 Jul 2002 21:09:32 -0700
Subject: Re: Some Questions for Ray
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
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On Saturday, July 13, 2002, at 05:26 PM, DuncanMacLeod89@aol.com wrote:

> Hey Ray, I was wondering, how many more books to you plan to write 
> using Midkemia? Thanks.
>
> -Chance
> "We who are truly brave, will never live in fear."-The Rock
>
>
>

Who knows?

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.

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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2002 05:20:00 -0700 (PDT)
From: Chris Vance <pikachu_chris@yahoo.com.sg>
Subject: Re: Some Questions for Ray
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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--- Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com> wrote:
> 
> On Saturday, July 13, 2002, at 01:37 PM,
> Gkhd11a@aol.com wrote:
> 
> > In a message dated 7/13/02 12:24:14 PM Central
> Daylight Time,
> > raymond@bittersea.com writes:
> >
> > << > 1. Iíve read conflicting things, is the
> Serpent War the second 
> > Riftwar?
> >
> >  Yes. >>
> >
> > Why is the Serpent War considered a Riftwar?  The
> only time there was a 
> > rift
> > and a war was at the very beggining.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> 
> OK, pay close attention.
> 
> 1) There was a rift.
> 
> 2) There was a war.
> 
> Seriously, any war that results from a rift is going
> to be called a 
> Riftwar.  The rift doesn't have to stay open all the
> time.
> 
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
> 
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be
> explained away by 
> stupidity.
> 

Dear Raymond,

You are really one funny guy.......(Just had to say it
because I had such a good laugh reading the above.)

CIA

P.S: Are all great authors also great cynics?

=====
The Brainless

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Autos - Get free new car price quotes
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From: "Bruce Stedman" <bjs@bjs.org.uk>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Chaos wars Was Re: Circle inhabitants
Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2002 14:07:30 +0100
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Bruce Stedman" <bjs@bjs.org.uk>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Chaos wars Was Re: Circle inhabitants
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So, Tomas is still around in the 5th riftwar!!

I think in some ways a synopsis of the history of the universe to date would
go well in the Atlas. More of a history book instead of a novel. It would
certainly help answer many of the questions we as readers have running
around our heads. In fact, a Midkemia Cyclopedia would be lovely! Just an
idea - you're the boss! In fact a whole book of prose history akin to the
Silmarillion would be VERY nice. "In the beginning..."

I think half the 'problem' is that we are given clues and half-stories as to
the nature of everything - even when we think we've got the hang of
something it turns out to be more complex (equivalent to finding matter is
made from atoms, which in turn are made from protons etc which in turn are
made from quarks). I guess we have an insatiable appetite for your universe
and its goings on. When you do eventually stop writing we're all still going
to want more.

But, at the end of the day it's all about money. You write to pay your
bills. Publishers publish for profit. And that's about the size of it. I
suppose if everyone on the list stumped up $500 we'd get a book written just
for us :-)

I'd love for Ray's work to become as popular as Tolkien's - for instance
Atlases & Maps, Encyclopaedia, Biographies, Literary Criticism, & Cliff
Notes!

Humour me for a minute...
(Ideas taken from a selection of the JRRT books I have)
A Walk through Crydee
Feist Postcard Book
The Midkemia Scrapbook
The Feist Quiz book
Journeys of Pug
Barron's Book Notes on Apprentice & Magician
The Map of Feist's Midkemia
The Feist and Midkemia handbook
The Biography of Raymond E. Feist
Feist - the Illustrated Encyclopaedia
A Feist Bestiary
The Feist Companion
R E Feist: Master of Fantasy
Magician and The Signs of the Times
Feist and the Critics
Some Light on Midkemia
Mudkemia (A Parody of Magician)
Magician - Souvenir booklet commemorating 25 years of publication
The Letters/Emails of Raymond E. Feist
Raymond E. Feist - A Critical Biography
York Notes on Faerie Tale
The Languages of Feist's Midkemia
After The Riftwars (Stories in Honour of R E Feist)
Feist's World(s)
Splintered Light - Logos and Language in Feist's Worlds
Evocation of Virgil in Feist's Art - Geritol for the Classics
The Complete Guide to Midkemia
R.E.Feist - 2nd Best Author of the Century <g>
And then for someone to write the History of Midkemia in Twelve volumes!

You get the idea. I'd buy them all.


Crucial question: Are you into other people producing accompanying
publications (not novels)?


BJS


PS - Flynn Boyle & Ray - nice Q&A session, and not a single WUTNB in sight!
A pity about Winet's Highlanders! Yes, I'd like to read more about Amos
Trask.


-----Original Message-----
>From: Raymond Feist [mailto:raymond@bittersea.com]
>Sent: 13 July 2002 18:04
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: Re: Chaos wars Was Re: Circle inhabitants
>
>
>On Saturday, July 13, 2002, at 08:35 AM, Milamber wrote:
>
>
>
>>
>>The Chaos wars intrigue me especially the Valheru.
>>
>>Peronally I would love to see a book dedicated to them at the height of
>>their power.
>>Probably much in the same way as the new Jimmy the Hand book might be.
>>This is just musings on not a request Ray ;-).
>>
>>Regards
>>Chris
>>
>
>
>
>
>Personally, I think it would be pretty boring, insofar as you don't have
>anyone to root for; the Valheru are not nice folks. Lots of gratuitious
>killing and conquest.
>
>Naw, I've written as much about that war as I want to, during the flash
>backs in Magician/Darkness. I might touch on that history again in the Fifth
>Rifwar, as a peek inside Tomas's head, again, but that would be it.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
>stupidity.

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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2002 08:57:32 -0700
Subject: Re: Some Questions for Ray
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Sunday, July 14, 2002, at 05:20 AM, Chris Vance wrote:

>
> --- Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com> wrote:
>>
>> On Saturday, July 13, 2002, at 01:37 PM,
>> Gkhd11a@aol.com wrote:
>>
>>> In a message dated 7/13/02 12:24:14 PM Central
>> Daylight Time,
>>> raymond@bittersea.com writes:
>>>
>>> << > 1. IÌve read conflicting things, is the
>> Serpent War the second
>>> Riftwar?
>>>
>>>  Yes. >>
>>>
>>> Why is the Serpent War considered a Riftwar?  The
>> only time there was a
>>> rift
>>> and a war was at the very beggining.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> OK, pay close attention.
>>
>> 1) There was a rift.
>>
>> 2) There was a war.
>>
>> Seriously, any war that results from a rift is going
>> to be called a
>> Riftwar.  The rift doesn't have to stay open all the
>> time.
>>
>> Best, R.E.F.
>> ----
>>
>> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be
>> explained away by
>> stupidity.
>>
>
> Dear Raymond,
>
> You are really one funny guy.......(Just had to say it
> because I had such a good laugh reading the above.)
>
> CIA
>
> P.S: Are all great authors also great cynics?
>

I don't think so, but then I don't know any "great" authors.  I think 
that's one of those words you get put in front of your job title after 
you die.

I know most of us lesser literary lights  tend to be skeptical, but not 
cynical.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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From: "Cameron Duncan" <cduncan@atinera.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Which is the real 1st edition
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 02:30:48 +1000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Cameron Duncan" <cduncan@atinera.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Which is the real 1st edition
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 02:30:48 +1000
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<snip>
>
> Well If you find another Silverthorn, you need to let me know.
> I'll even up
> it to $7 :)
>
> Deon O'Brien
> --
> "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity,
> and I'm not
> sure about the former." - Albert Einstein (1879-1955)
>

I haven't been lucky enough to find another hardback.  Apparently, there
were
only about 2000 UK hardbacks printed - not sure if that is total, or first
edition.
So, if I have 1, John probably has the other 1999. (sorry John, couldn't
resist <bg>)
The Trade Paperbacks keep showing up every now and then though.

Cameron



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Subject: Re: Which is the real 1st edition
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Cameron Duncan <cduncan@atinera.com.au> writes
><snip>
>>
>> Well If you find another Silverthorn, you need to let me know.
>> I'll even up
>> it to $7 :)
>
>I haven't been lucky enough to find another hardback.  Apparently, there
>were
>only about 2000 UK hardbacks printed - not sure if that is total, or first
>edition.
>So, if I have 1, John probably has the other 1999. (sorry John, couldn't
>resist <bg>)
>The Trade Paperbacks keep showing up every now and then though.
>
>Cameron
>
Well to set the facts straight  or as straight as I can. There were 
about 1000 UK Magicians produced, but it I believe that this figure 
covered both Hardback and Trade Paperback, as there was no separate 
detail for the Trade Paperback from my source, where as later titles had 
separate figures.
It should be noted that the printed block of pages had both ISBN so it 
could have been used on either
I don't know of what would be normally termed a second printing other 
than the fact that Magician was reprinted in 1989 with the same ISBN but 
the Taylor cover

>
>

-- 
John

john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.

Raymond E Feist Ring
http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm



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Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2002 16:12:38 EDT
Subject: Servents of Darkness yell Nalar?
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From: Gkhd11a@aol.com
Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2002 16:12:38 EDT
Subject: Servents of Darkness yell Nalar?
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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If people hear Nalar's name get mind controled by him, then why doesn't 
Nalar's servents just run around yelling Nalar?  If somebody said that to a 
few people down in Kesh...



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Subject: Re: Servents of Darkness yell Nalar?
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From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Servents of Darkness yell Nalar?
Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2002 17:14:17 -0500
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I can surmise a couple of reasons why this isn't a likely idea:

1. Because I suspect that Nalar's name is known only to a few of his
higher ups, i.e. more powerful minions.  Even as a god why would he
want to control a bunch of beggars?  Besides, his name could kill
the lesser (i.e. non-magical) people who heard it.  What use is an
army of courses...oh wait ne'er mind about that. :P

2.  He's evil and insane.  Where does logic work into that equation?

3.  It wouldn't be as much fun to read a story where the characters
loose when someone yells a name at them.  Lousy plot device when
used more than once or twice under control circumstances.

----- Original Message -----
From: <Gkhd11a@aol.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Sunday, July 14, 2002 3:12 PM
Subject: Servents of Darkness yell Nalar?


> If people hear Nalar's name get mind controled by him, then why doesn't
> Nalar's servents just run around yelling Nalar?  If somebody said that to a
> few people down in Kesh...
>



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Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2002 15:30:50 -0700
Subject: Re: Servents of Darkness yell Nalar?
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On Sunday, July 14, 2002, at 01:12 PM, Gkhd11a@aol.com wrote:

> If people hear Nalar's name get mind controled by him, then why doesn't
> Nalar's servents just run around yelling Nalar?  If somebody said that 
> to a
> few people down in Kesh...
>
>
>
>

The assumption is there are other forces preventing that (mostly, me, 
the writer). <g>

Seriously, there always has to be a context.  One can safely assume 
there are just so many phonemes of human speech out there, so in one or 
more of the languages of Midkemia, somewhere, at some time, someone 
utters "nay-lar," on an occasional basis.  "So, when he asked me, I said 
'Nay!'  Lars, have you heard that story before?'" sorts of stuff.  One 
would have to have a mental framework where you knew who's name you were 
uttering.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2002 15:39:41 -0700
From: Carl Dershem <dershem@cox.net>
Organization: Project Selene
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Subject: Re: Servents of Darkness yell Nalar?
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Raymond Feist wrote:
> 
> On Sunday, July 14, 2002, at 01:12 PM, Gkhd11a@aol.com wrote:
> 
>> If people hear Nalar's name get mind controled by him, then why doesn't
>> Nalar's servents just run around yelling Nalar?  If somebody said that 
>> to a
>> few people down in Kesh...
> 
> The assumption is there are other forces preventing that (mostly, me, 
> the writer). <g>
> 
> Seriously, there always has to be a context.  One can safely assume 
> there are just so many phonemes of human speech out there, so in one or 
> more of the languages of Midkemia, somewhere, at some time, someone 
> utters "nay-lar," on an occasional basis.  "So, when he asked me, I said 
> 'Nay!'  Lars, have you heard that story before?'" sorts of stuff.  One 
> would have to have a mental framework where you knew who's name you were 
> uttering.

So there has to be intent and knowledge behind the utterance, or it's 
just sound.  That makes sense.

cd
-- 
Death to all Absolutists!



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*** EOOH ***
From: Gkhd11a@aol.com
Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2002 19:55:34 EDT
Subject: Re: Servents of Darkness yell Nalar?
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

In a message dated 7/14/02 5:53:56 PM Central Daylight Time, 
raymond@bittersea.com writes:
>On Sunday, July 14, 2002, at 01:12 PM, Gkhd11a@aol.com wrote:
>
>> If people hear Nalar's name get mind controled by him, then why doesn't
>> Nalar's servents just run around yelling Nalar?  If somebody said that 
>> to a
>> few people down in Kesh...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>The assumption is there are other forces preventing that (mostly, me, 
>the writer). <g>
>
>Seriously, there always has to be a context.  One can safely assume 
>there are just so many phonemes of human speech out there, so in one or 
>more of the languages of Midkemia, somewhere, at some time, someone 
>utters "nay-lar," on an occasional basis.  "So, when he asked me, I said 
>'Nay!'  Lars, have you heard that story before?'" sorts of stuff.  One 
>would have to have a mental framework where you knew who's name you were 
>uttering.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
>stupidity.

But if Sidi, for example, was able to talk to a few people, such as the Queen 
of Kesh, and a few of the nobles, and got them to the "dark side" then there 
could be some serious havoc.  Of course it would suck for a story, so even if 
you thought that it would be logical for that to happen, you would never want 
to put that into one of your books.  That question has been in my mind for a 
while and I was just wondering if you had some kind of explination for it- 
which it seems you have half a one, although it seems to have some loop holes 
to me.



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From: "Allan Mills" <amills1@bigpond.net.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: not the three musketeers
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 10:48:48 +1000
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 I was just wondering Ray, at the start of Murder in LaMut you thank Joel
for cloning three of your favorite characters from his universe to use in
the book. I was under the impression though that you don't read other
fantasy books so how did they become your favorites?

 Allan



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Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2002 18:10:32 -0700
Subject: Re: Servents of Darkness yell Nalar?
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Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2002 18:10:32 -0700
Subject: Re: Servents of Darkness yell Nalar?
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On Sunday, July 14, 2002, at 04:55 PM, Gkhd11a@aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 7/14/02 5:53:56 PM Central Daylight Time,
> raymond@bittersea.com writes:
>
> << On Sunday, July 14, 2002, at 01:12 PM, Gkhd11a@aol.com wrote:
>
>> If people hear Nalar's name get mind controled by him, then why doesn't
>> Nalar's servents just run around yelling Nalar?  If somebody said that
>> to a
>> few people down in Kesh...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>  The assumption is there are other forces preventing that (mostly, me,
>  the writer). <g>
>
>  Seriously, there always has to be a context.  One can safely assume
>  there are just so many phonemes of human speech out there, so in one or
>  more of the languages of Midkemia, somewhere, at some time, someone
>  utters "nay-lar," on an occasional basis.  "So, when he asked me, I 
> said
>  'Nay!'  Lars, have you heard that story before?'" sorts of stuff.  One
>  would have to have a mental framework where you knew who's name you 
> were
>  uttering.
>
>  Best, R.E.F.
>  ----
>
>  Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
>  stupidity. >>
>
> But if Sidi, for example, was able to talk to a few people, such as the 
> Queen
> of Kesh, and a few of the nobles, and got them to the "dark side" then 
> there
> could be some serious havoc.  Of course it would suck for a story, so 
> even if
> you thought that it would be logical for that to happen, you would 
> never want
> to put that into one of your books.  That question has been in my mind 
> for a
> while and I was just wondering if you had some kind of explination for 
> it-
> which it seems you have half a one, although it seems to have some loop 
> holes
> to me.
>
>
>
>

It's not "half" an explanation.  If you thought about it, you'd realize 
that the word, in and of itself, is meaningless.  It's the concept 
behind the "name of names" or "true names" which is central to many 
religions and cultures in history.  To know the name of a thing is to 
have power over it, and in this case, give it power over you.  But you 
have to "know" it.

Besides, many of Nalar's servants don't know his name.  Others know it, 
but don't recognize that it gives the god power over the person.  That 
power is subtle and slow working.  Think of it as working on a hill of 
ants.  You can crush them.  You can ignore them.  Or you can put out 
some sugar and let them find it, and take it back to the hive.  But you 
can't pick out one ant and say, "Here's what I want you to do."

Half the time, Sidi, who is about as high up the Nalar food chain as you 
can get, doesn't know why he wants to do the things he does.

So, stop looking for simple explanations.

If one thing hasn't become clear to folks about my work, it's that if 
you think there's a simple explanation for anything to do with the 
magic, gods, cosmology, etc. of the place, you're probably wrong.  
(Except when you think there's a really complex explanation for 
something, in which case I'll make it simple just to throw you off).

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Subject: Re[2]: Servents of Darkness yell Nalar?
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Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 11:28:22 +1000
From: Paul Duthie <duthie.paul.j@edumail.vic.gov.au>
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To: Raymond Feist <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re[2]: Servents of Darkness yell Nalar?
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Hello Raymond,



Monday, July 15, 2002, 11:10:32 AM, you wrote:


RF> On Sunday, July 14, 2002, at 04:55 PM, Gkhd11a@aol.com wrote:

>> In a message dated 7/14/02 5:53:56 PM Central Daylight Time,
>> raymond@bittersea.com writes:
>>
>> << On Sunday, July 14, 2002, at 01:12 PM, Gkhd11a@aol.com wrote:
>>
>>> If people hear Nalar's name get mind controled by him, then why doesn't
>>> Nalar's servents just run around yelling Nalar?  If somebody said that
>>> to a
>>> few people down in Kesh...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>  The assumption is there are other forces preventing that (mostly, me,
>>  the writer). <g>
>>
>>  Seriously, there always has to be a context.  One can safely assume
>>  there are just so many phonemes of human speech out there, so in one or
>>  more of the languages of Midkemia, somewhere, at some time, someone
>>  utters "nay-lar," on an occasional basis.  "So, when he asked me, I 
>> said
>>  'Nay!'  Lars, have you heard that story before?'" sorts of stuff.  One
>>  would have to have a mental framework where you knew who's name you 
>> were
>>  uttering.
>>
>>  Best, R.E.F.
>>  ----
>>
>>  Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
>>  stupidity. >>
>>
>> But if Sidi, for example, was able to talk to a few people, such as the 
>> Queen
>> of Kesh, and a few of the nobles, and got them to the "dark side" then 
>> there
>> could be some serious havoc.  Of course it would suck for a story, so 
>> even if
>> you thought that it would be logical for that to happen, you would 
>> never want
>> to put that into one of your books.  That question has been in my mind 
>> for a
>> while and I was just wondering if you had some kind of explination for 
>> it-
>> which it seems you have half a one, although it seems to have some loop 
>> holes
>> to me.
>>
>>
>>
>>

RF> It's not "half" an explanation.  If you thought about it, you'd realize 
RF> that the word, in and of itself, is meaningless.  It's the concept 
RF> behind the "name of names" or "true names" which is central to many 
RF> religions and cultures in history.  To know the name of a thing is to 
RF> have power over it, and in this case, give it power over you.  But you 
RF> have to "know" it.

I seem to remember this being in Magician in the conversation when Pug
decides that his place is no longer here and is speaking to one of the
Black Robes who tells him that only he can discover/discern his own
true name.

RF> Besides, many of Nalar's servants don't know his name.  Others know it, 
RF> but don't recognize that it gives the god power over the person.  That 
RF> power is subtle and slow working.  Think of it as working on a hill of 
RF> ants.  You can crush them.  You can ignore them.  Or you can put out 
RF> some sugar and let them find it, and take it back to the hive.  But you 
RF> can't pick out one ant and say, "Here's what I want you to do."

RF> Half the time, Sidi, who is about as high up the Nalar food chain as you 
RF> can get, doesn't know why he wants to do the things he does.

RF> So, stop looking for simple explanations.

RF> If one thing hasn't become clear to folks about my work, it's that if 
RF> you think there's a simple explanation for anything to do with the 
RF> magic, gods, cosmology, etc. of the place, you're probably wrong.  
RF> (Except when you think there's a really complex explanation for 
RF> something, in which case I'll make it simple just to throw you off).

RF> Best, R.E.F.
RF> ----

RF> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
RF> stupidity.


-- 
Best regards,
Paul Duthie                     duthie.paul.j@edumail.vic.gov.au
Network Manager,
Ballarat High School            www.ballaraths.vic.edu.au
Sent Using The Bat! Version 1.60h



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Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2002 18:40:59 -0700
Subject: Re: not the three musketeers
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On Sunday, July 14, 2002, at 05:48 PM, Allan Mills wrote:

>  I was just wondering Ray, at the start of Murder in LaMut you thank 
> Joel
> for cloning three of your favorite characters from his universe to use 
> in
> the book. I was under the impression though that you don't read other
> fantasy books so how did they become your favorites?
>
>  Allan
>
>
>
>
I "usually" don't read fantasy novels, but I do read certain authors 
from time to time.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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From: "Flynn Boyle" <cannibalistic_hen@hotmail.com>
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Isn't some of the appeal of the Chaos Wars and the Valheru in the mystery?


>
>  Id personally like to hear the story of where they fought and conquered 
>the worlds who were so advanced they had ships the size of cities and 
>whatnot. I think thats what it said. But that would be really interesting 
>to hear about.
>   Milamber <milamber_aka_pug@hotmail.com> wrote: 
>FLAVOR00-NONE-0000-0000-000000000000;
>The Chaos wars intrigue me especially the Valheru.
>
>Peronally I would love to see a book dedicated to them at the height of 
>their power.
>Probably much in the same way as the new Jimmy the Hand book might be.
>This is just musings on not a request Ray ;-).
>
>Regards
>Chris
>
>"People are more violently opposed to fur than leather because it's safer 
>to harass rich women than motorcycle gangs."
>    Unknown
>
>Speaking of which, how did that wraith get out of the 6th circle of
>hell and onto Midkemia and into Mac Mordain Cadal in the first
>place? And the dwarves seemed to know that they were lurking
>about down there, so I'm guessing they've been there for a while.
>Perhaps just another remnant from the Chaos Wars?
>
>
>____________________________________________________
>   IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved - Click Here
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>
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_________________________________________________________________
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From: "Flynn Boyle" <cannibalistic_hen@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Profit and the Grey Assassin
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Hi, I've seen Profit and the Grey Assassin advertized for $25US + pp in a 
few places. I'd like to firstly know if anyone knows of somewhere I can get 
it for less. And secondly can somebody convince me why I should buy it. (No 
offence Ray, I'm sure its great, just the Australian exchange rate isn't 
brilliant so I'd like to know how great first). Thanks, Flynn.



_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx



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From: "Michelle Thomson" <chell_40@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Which is the real 1st edition
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 15:57:04 +1200
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From: "Michelle Thomson" <chell_40@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Which is the real 1st edition
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 15:57:04 +1200
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>Cameron Duncan <cduncan@atinera.com.au> writes
>><snip>
>>>
>>>Well If you find another Silverthorn, you need to let me know.
>>>I'll even up
>>>it to $7 :)
>>
>>I haven't been lucky enough to find another hardback.  Apparently, there
>>were
>>only about 2000 UK hardbacks printed - not sure if that is total, or first
>>edition.
>>So, if I have 1, John probably has the other 1999. (sorry John, couldn't
>>resist <bg>)
>>The Trade Paperbacks keep showing up every now and then though.
>>
>>Cameron
>>
>Well to set the facts straight  or as straight as I can. There were about 
>1000 UK Magicians produced, but it I believe that this figure covered both 
>Hardback and Trade Paperback, as there was no separate detail for the Trade 
>Paperback from my source, where as later titles had separate figures.
>It should be noted that the printed block of pages had both ISBN so it 
>could have been used on either
>I don't know of what would be normally termed a second printing other than 
>the fact that Magician was reprinted in 1989 with the same ISBN but the 
>Taylor cover
>
>>
>>
>
>--
>John
>
>john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
>http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.
>
>Raymond E Feist Ring
>http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm

Hey John

I find this whole ISBN thing confusing, but is it possible I have the trade 
paperback??? (I don't think so but.... its worth checking)  You said the 
other day that it ended in a 1 or something along those lines.

The ISBN is 0-586-05828-1
It has a cover by Taylor, but says it was printed in 1984 by Panther Books 
not 1989.  Or are you refering in the above to the reprinting of the 
hardcover??

Also had a look at your covers page to see if it could tell me.  It would be 
informative, but not nescessary, if you could mark out the first edition 
covers from the others, especially for Magician which has heaps of different 
ones.

Michelle Thomson

*************************
Never argue with an idiot, first they bring you down to their level, then 
they beat you with experience.


_________________________________________________________________
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From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
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Subject: Re: Profit and the Grey Assassin
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Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 19:34:10 +1000 (GMT+1000)
From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Profit and the Grey Assassin
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> Hi, I've seen Profit and the Grey Assassin advertized for $25US + pp in a
> few places. I'd like to firstly know if anyone knows of somewhere I can get
> it for less. And secondly can somebody convince me why I should buy it. (No
> offence Ray, I'm sure its great, just the Australian exchange rate isn't
> brilliant so I'd like to know how great first). Thanks, Flynn.

If you're a collector, get it. Its good fun. Plus some of the characters
mentioned appear later in Ray's other books.

I paid about $50 AUS a few years back for it, got it from list resident
John Bunting, and it was in perfect condition.

Thanks
Darragh
================================================
msn: iamtheporkfireman@hotmail.com

"Believe or die - thank you O lord for all those
 options" - Bill Hicks.
================================================



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From: "Deon O'Brien" <randmtask@optushome.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Which is the real 1st edition
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 20:52:21 +1000
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> I find this whole ISBN thing confusing, but is it possible I have the trade
> paperback??? (I don't think so but.... its worth checking)  You said the
> other day that it ended in a 1 or something along those lines.
>
> The ISBN is 0-586-05828-1
> It has a cover by Taylor, but says it was printed in 1984 by Panther Books
> not 1989.  Or are you refering in the above to the reprinting of the
> hardcover??
>
> Also had a look at your covers page to see if it could tell me.  It would be
> informative, but not nescessary, if you could mark out the first edition
> covers from the others, especially for Magician which has heaps of different
> ones.
>
> Michelle Thomson


Michelle,

By that ISBN you have a regular paperback. You can tell if you have a Trade
Paperback by the size, they are just a regular paperback the size of a
hardback.

They generally get published in these orders:

Hardback then Trade Paperback a short time later then a paperback further
down the track, or
Hardback and Trade Paperback simultaneously then paperback later, or
Trade Paperback (No Hardback release) then paperback later (Happens often in
Australia)

cheers,


Deon O'Brien
--
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not
sure about the former." - Albert Einstein (1879-1955)



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From: "Cameron Gurr" <gurrc@brightontown.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Editing
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 20:28:26 +0800
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From: "Cameron Gurr" <gurrc@brightontown.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Editing
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 20:28:26 +0800
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I've just been asked by a potential agent to remove 76000 words from my
MS (currently 276000).

That seems like a rather difficult task to me, though I'd always
expected it was necessary.

I just reached behind me and pulled out Magician - 831 pages, and
probably a lot more than 276000 words.

Ray, I was wondering if you came across the same hurdle (which you
obviously did, because you released an "unabridged" edition IIRC), and
how you approached the task.

Thanks

Cameron.



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Subject: Re: Editing
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
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On Monday, July 15, 2002, at 05:28 AM, Cameron Gurr wrote:

>
>
> I've just been asked by a potential agent to remove 76000 words from my
> MS (currently 276000).
>
> That seems like a rather difficult task to me, though I'd always
> expected it was necessary.
>
> I just reached behind me and pulled out Magician - 831 pages, and
> probably a lot more than 276000 words.
>
> Ray, I was wondering if you came across the same hurdle (which you
> obviously did, because you released an "unabridged" edition IIRC), and
> how you approached the task.
>

I approached it grinding my teeth.  And then I sat down with a marker 
and started cutting, line by line.  It's a tedious, difficult task, but 
if the book has too much fat in it, it's a useful exercise.  My question 
would be, why 76000 words?  Why not 75000 or 80000?  Is the number tied 
in to the number of signatures required to bind a book to a certain size?

One thing to consider, too, is this is a "potential" agent.  You might 
do a lot of frustrating work and still have him/her say, "Naw."

I'd rather see you cut for an editor who's paying you to do it.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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-------Original Message-------
>
>From: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Date: 13 July 2002 18:28:12
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: Re: Chaos wars Was Re: Circle inhabitants
>
>On Saturday, July 13, 2002, at 08:35 AM, Milamber wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> The Chaos wars intrigue me especially the Valheru.
>>
>> Peronally I would love to see a book dedicated to them at the height of 
>> their power.
>> Probably much in the same way as the new Jimmy the Hand book might be.
>> This is just musings on not a request Ray ;-).
>>
>> Regards
>> Chris
>>
>>
>>
>
>Personally, I think it would be pretty boring, insofar as you don't have 
>anyone to root for; the Valheru are not nice folks. Lots of gratuitious 
>killing and conquest.
>
>Naw, I've written as much about that war as I want to, during the flash 
>backs in Magician/Darkness. I might touch on that history again in the 
>Fifth Rifwar, as a peek inside Tomas's head, again, but that would be it.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
>stupidity.
 
Oh I don't know. I would root for Ashen Shugar especially if the story line
involved the Tomas Paradox! As Ashen Shugar was influenced by Tomas
through Macros this could lead to some interesting possibilities IMO.
Not only could we root for Ashen Shugar we would also be rooting for Tomas
although he won't have been born for ages (literally). As I say these are
musings
of mine. I would say I would write a novel about it myself FOR MY OWN
PLEASURE
but as I recieved far too many posts last time I mentioned this I won't ;-).
Regards
Chris
"Writers should be read, but neither seen nor heard." 
Daphne du Maurier

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>
>On Sunday, July 14, 2002, at 05:20 AM, Chris Vance wrote:
>
>
>>> Why is the Serpent War considered a Riftwar? The
>>> only time there was a
>>>> rift
>>>> and a war was at the very beggining.
>>>
>>> Seriously, any war that results from a rift is going
>>>> CIA
>>
>> P.S: Are all great authors also great cynics?
>>
>
>I don't think so, but then I don't know any "great" authors. I think 
>that's one of those words you get put in front of your job title after 
>you die.
>
>I know most of us lesser literary lights tend to be skeptical, but not 
>cynical.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>----

Greatness is subjective, but in your case Ray it is fact! Anyone want to
disagree? ;-)
Regards
Chris
"After being Turned Down by numerous Publishers, he had decided to write for
Posterity." 
George Ade (1866 - 1944), "Fables in Slang", 1899
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On Monday 15 July 2002 7:28 am, Cameron Gurr wrote:
> I've just been asked by a potential agent to remove 76000 words from my
> MS (currently 276000).
>
> That seems like a rather difficult task to me, though I'd always
> expected it was necessary.
>
> I just reached behind me and pulled out Magician - 831 pages, and
> probably a lot more than 276000 words.
>
> Ray, I was wondering if you came across the same hurdle (which you
> obviously did, because you released an "unabridged" edition IIRC), and
> how you approached the task.
>
> Thanks
>
> Cameron.

Free advice, worth what you're paying for it:  take any potential agent's 
request with more than a couple grains of salt.  (Do you think the book needs 
to be cut?)



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>
>-------Original Message-------
>
>From: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Date: 15 July 2002 02:31:40
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: Re: Servents of Darkness yell Nalar?
>
>On Sunday, July 14, 2002, at 04:55 PM, Gkhd11a@aol.com wrote:
>
>> In a message dated 7/14/02 5:53:56 PM Central Daylight Time,
>> raymond@bittersea.com writes:
>>
>> << On Sunday, July 14, 2002, at 01:12 PM, Gkhd11a@aol.com wrote:
>>
>>> If people hear Nalar's name get mind controled by him, then why doesn't
>>> Nalar's servents just run around yelling Nalar? If somebody said that
>>> to a
>>> few people down in Kesh...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> The assumption is there are other forces preventing that (mostly, me,
>> the writer). <g>
>>
>> Seriously, there always has to be a context. One can safely assume
>> there are just so many phonemes of human speech out there, so in one or
>> more of the languages of Midkemia, somewhere, at some time, someone
>> utters "nay-lar," on an occasional basis. "So, when he asked me, I 
>> said
>> 'Nay!' Lars, have you heard that story before?'" sorts of stuff. One
>> would have to have a mental framework where you knew who's name you 
>> were
>> uttering.
>>
>> Best, R.E.F.
>> ----
>>
>> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
>> stupidity. >>
>>
>> But if Sidi, for example, was able to talk to a few people, such as the 
>> Queen
>> of Kesh, and a few of the nobles, and got them to the "dark side" then 
>> there
>> could be some serious havoc. Of course it would suck for a story, so 
>> even if
>> you thought that it would be logical for that to happen, you would 
>> never want
>> to put that into one of your books. That question has been in my mind 
>> for a
>> while and I was just wondering if you had some kind of explination for 
>> it-
>> which it seems you have half a one, although it seems to have some loop 
>> holes
>> to me.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>It's not "half" an explanation. If you thought about it, you'd realize 
>that the word, in and of itself, is meaningless. It's the concept 
>behind the "name of names" or "true names" which is central to many 
>religions and cultures in history. To know the name of a thing is to 
>have power over it, and in this case, give it power over you. But you 
>have to "know" it.
>
>Besides, many of Nalar's servants don't know his name. Others know it, 
>but don't recognize that it gives the god power over the person. That 
>power is subtle and slow working. Think of it as working on a hill of 
>ants. You can crush them. You can ignore them. Or you can put out 
>some sugar and let them find it, and take it back to the hive. But you 
>can't pick out one ant and say, "Here's what I want you to do."
>
>Half the time, Sidi, who is about as high up the Nalar food chain as you 
>can get, doesn't know why he wants to do the things he does.
>
>So, stop looking for simple explanations.
>
>If one thing hasn't become clear to folks about my work, it's that if 
>you think there's a simple explanation for anything to do with the 
>magic, gods, cosmology, etc. of the place, you're probably wrong. 
>(Except when you think there's a really complex explanation for 
>something, in which case I'll make it simple just to throw you off).
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
>stupidity. 
Ah the advantages of being the author as opposed to being the mere reader 
-)
Regards
Chris
"Artificial Intelligence is no match for natural stupidity." 
Unknown
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Subject: RE: Profit and the Grey Assassin
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 00:58:49 +1000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Cameron Duncan" <cduncan@atinera.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Profit and the Grey Assassin
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 00:58:49 +1000
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John Bunting (from the list and also crydee.com) used to do a deal for
list members that meant you'd essentially pay $25 US for the book plus
postage.
I'm not sure if he still does.
It is definately worth buying if you like Ray's work.  If you collect
his books, then you absolutely should own a copy.

The notorious Australian exchange rate!  The Aussie dollar isn't too bad at
the
moment - about $0.56 US  At least you didn't pay nearly $200 US for  US
hardback
copy of Magician APE when the rate was $0.48 US!!!  Beleive me, that one
hurt!!!

Cameron

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Flynn Boyle
> Sent: Monday, July 15, 2002 12:38 PM
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Subject: Profit and the Grey Assassin
>
>
> Hi, I've seen Profit and the Grey Assassin advertized for $25US + pp in a
> few places. I'd like to firstly know if anyone knows of somewhere
> I can get
> it for less. And secondly can somebody convince me why I should
> buy it. (No
> offence Ray, I'm sure its great, just the Australian exchange rate isn't
> brilliant so I'd like to know how great first). Thanks, Flynn.
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
> http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
>
>



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From: "Cameron Gurr" <gurrc@brightontown.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Editing
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 23:45:03 +0800
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Cameron Gurr" <gurrc@brightontown.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Editing
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 23:45:03 +0800
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Ray, so what's my next step. Both you and Joel have said the same thing,
the "potential agent" is a problem. 

But I'm operating in Australia, not America, which means the market is a
lot smaller, and agents (of which there are fewer) tend to want this
style of work to be done before they read. I mean 276,000 is a long book
for Australia, especially a first book. They just don't come out that
big here, not even fantasy. It took Sara Douglass 8 books before she
started to fill up some pages, or even before she was released in
hardcover. As you've said before Ray, publishing is a commercial
enterprise.

I've got the thing out there though, i.e. I've sent it to a number of
agencies. This person is the first to respond. She's informed me that a
270,000 word book is going to be hard for her to market. She said knock
off 76,000 because 200,000 is a nice round number, and she wants me
close to that benchmark (yes, that is before she will read the whole
MS).

So, do I:

 	1. respond to her saying some editing has been done, but I
haven't made wholesale cuts to the ms, here's 250,000 words.
	2. Make the cuts and keep an unabridged version on file to bring
to the table once we look close to a contract.
	3. Just wait until another agency is willing to read the whole
thing, or until I have several opinions that support this first one.

While I don't necessarily think the book needs to be cut (I'm pretty
sure no one ever does), I think it can be edited down a little without
losing too much of the context.

It's not often you get to put these types of questions to experienced
authors like you guys, and I appreciate the advice.

Cameron.



>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Raymond Feist
>Sent: Monday, 15 July 2002 9:11 PM
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: Re: Editing
>
>
>On Monday, July 15, 2002, at 05:28 AM, Cameron Gurr wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> I've just been asked by a potential agent to remove 76000 words from my
>> MS (currently 276000).
>>
>> That seems like a rather difficult task to me, though I'd always
>> expected it was necessary.
>>
>> I just reached behind me and pulled out Magician - 831 pages, and
>> probably a lot more than 276000 words.
>>
>> Ray, I was wondering if you came across the same hurdle (which you
>> obviously did, because you released an "unabridged" edition IIRC), and
>> how you approached the task.
>>
>
>I approached it grinding my teeth.  And then I sat down with a marker 
>and started cutting, line by line.  It's a tedious, difficult task, but 
>if the book has too much fat in it, it's a useful exercise.  My question
>
>would be, why 76000 words?  Why not 75000 or 80000?  Is the number tied 
>in to the number of signatures required to bind a book to a certain
>size?
>
>One thing to consider, too, is this is a "potential" agent.  You might 
>do a lot of frustrating work and still have him/her say, "Naw."
>
>I'd rather see you cut for an editor who's paying you to do it.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
>stupidity.
>


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From: "Earl Borah" <earl@ncn.com>
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Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 08:59:43 -0700
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Subject: Re: Servents of Darkness yell Nalar?
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From: "Earl Borah" <earl@ncn.com>
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> But if Sidi, for example, was able to talk to a few people, such as the Queen of
> Kesh, and a few of the nobles, and got them to the "dark side" then there could
> be some serious havoc.  Of course it would suck for a story, so even if you


You're assuming he'd be able to walk right up to royalty and say whatever he 
wanted. Not necessarily so.

Not to mention that the whole "know his name and fall under his spell" idea is 
slightly suspect. Since there are clearly exceptions (not only for Nakor, but 
priests as well, not to mention blocking spells like Nakor casts), it seems 
reasonable to assume there are more elements involved than just "hear the name and 
you're toast."



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Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 09:58:37 -0700
Subject: Re: Editing
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 09:58:37 -0700
Subject: Re: Editing
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Monday, July 15, 2002, at 08:45 AM, Cameron Gurr wrote:

> Ray, so what's my next step. Both you and Joel have said the same thing,
> the "potential agent" is a problem.
>
> But I'm operating in Australia, not America, which means the market is a
> lot smaller, and agents (of which there are fewer) tend to want this
> style of work to be done before they read. I mean 276,000 is a long book
> for Australia, especially a first book. They just don't come out that
> big here, not even fantasy. It took Sara Douglass 8 books before she
> started to fill up some pages, or even before she was released in
> hardcover. As you've said before Ray, publishing is a commercial
> enterprise.
>
> I've got the thing out there though, i.e. I've sent it to a number of
> agencies. This person is the first to respond. She's informed me that a
> 270,000 word book is going to be hard for her to market. She said knock
> off 76,000 because 200,000 is a nice round number, and she wants me
> close to that benchmark (yes, that is before she will read the whole
> MS).
>
> So, do I:
>
>  	1. respond to her saying some editing has been done, but I
> haven't made wholesale cuts to the ms, here's 250,000 words.
> 	2. Make the cuts and keep an unabridged version on file to bring
> to the table once we look close to a contract.
> 	3. Just wait until another agency is willing to read the whole
> thing, or until I have several opinions that support this first one.
>
> While I don't necessarily think the book needs to be cut (I'm pretty
> sure no one ever does), I think it can be edited down a little without
> losing too much of the context.
>
> It's not often you get to put these types of questions to experienced
> authors like you guys, and I appreciate the advice.
>

I don't have a lot of advice.  Start editing, just to see how it feels 
and you might discover it's got more fat than you really thought.  When 
I cut 50,000 out of Magician, I thought it was all gold; when I restored 
it, I only put back about 30,000 words, so obviously, either way, 20,000 
needed to go.

Beyond that, I have no advice.  I'd start talking to local writers down 
in Oz, as they'll much better ideas about the state of the market there.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
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Subject: Rays UK tour as received today
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Please note there are time variations to what Ray Posted recently, so I 
suggest contact the store. Also if you cant get there, some will take 
phone orders


Monday 9 September

Lunch signing at        Hammicks        12.30-1.30pm
60-62 St Anns Road
Harrow
Contact:        Tony
Tel:            020 8863 4578

Evening event at        Borders 6.30pm
203-207 Oxford Street
London W1
Contact:        Simon
Chaired by:     Pat Cadigan
Tel:            020 7292 1650
In conversation with Miller Lau

Tuesday 10 September
Lunch signing at        Hammicks        12.30-1.30pm
14-16 Chelsea House
Queen Anne’s Walk
Basingstoke
Contact:        Bob
Tel:            01256 460646

Wednesday 11 September
Evening event at        Ottakar’s       6.30pm
72 Midsummer Place
Milton Keynes
Bucks
Contact:        Ben Donlan
Tel:            01908 395384

Thursday 12 September
Lunch signing at        Blackwell’s     12.30-1.30pm
89 Park Street
Bristol
Contact:        Duncan Dewfall
Tel:            0117 927 6602

Evening event at        Waterstone’s    6.00pm
128 Princes Street
Edinburgh
Contact:        Jo  Gordon
Tel:            0131 226 2666

Friday 13 September
Lunch signing with      Ottakar’s       12.30-1.30pm
31 The Bridges
Sunderland
Contact:        Steve Robinson
Tel:            0191 567 4331

Evening event at        Waterstone’s,   7.00pm
91 Deansgate
Manchester
Contact:        Michael Rowley/Jon Atkin
Tel:            0161 837 3000

Saturday 14 September
Lunch signing with      Ottakar’s               1.00-2.00pm
76 High Street
Chelmsford
Essex
Contact:        Clair Knight
Tel:            01245 268737


-- 
John

john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.

Raymond E Feist Ring
http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm



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Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 19:21:26 +0100
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From: John <john@crydee.com>
Subject: Re: Profit and the Grey Assassin
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Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 19:21:26 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: John <john@crydee.com>
Subject: Re: Profit and the Grey Assassin
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Flynn Boyle <cannibalistic_hen@hotmail.com> writes
>Hi, I've seen Profit and the Grey Assassin advertized for $25US + pp in 
>a few places.
As far as I know there is only one place. <G>

Hey you, yes you over there, that list member selling there copy stand 
up and be shot <G>

> I'd like to firstly know if anyone knows of somewhere I can get it for 
>less.
There is no where really as the Magazine was published in 1982 and the 
publisher went bust in 1987 That aside read on

>And secondly can somebody convince me why I should buy it.
It is a nice collectable. With Rays first published work]

>(No offence Ray, I'm sure its great, just the Australian exchange rate 
>isn't brilliant so I'd like to know how great first). Thanks, Flynn.

If you worry about exchange rates you may miss a lot of what you want in 
the global market

As to Cameron's  comment They are available to members at $26 including 
shipping most anywhere. (They were $25 but the postage and packing went 
up). You may also find them on a well known auction site at $19.99 but 
then you have to pay $6 shipping (Note though that the condition of 
those is not as fine.

I also have a few copies at $16 but these have large cover creases, 
marks etc. not really collectable, more for just reading

This offer is available to all list members but I am rapidly running out

best
-- 
John

john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.

Raymond E Feist Ring
http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm



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Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 19:27:44 +0100
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From: John <john@crydee.com>
Subject: Re: Which is the real 1st edition
References: <F50TSA0tOsXUo0Y9qAr0000e512@hotmail.com>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 19:27:44 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: John <john@crydee.com>
Subject: Re: Which is the real 1st edition
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Michelle Thomson <chell_40@hotmail.com> writes
>>http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm
>The ISBN is 0-586-05828-1
>It has a cover by Taylor, but says it was printed in 1984 by Panther 
>Books not 1989.  Or are you refering in the above to the reprinting of 
>the hardcover??
>
>Also had a look at your covers page to see if it could tell me.  It 
>would be informative, but not nescessary, if you could mark out the 
>first edition covers from the others, especially for Magician which has 
>heaps of
I am wary of giving details of Firsts just in case I get it wrong, as it 
can be a very expensive mistake for someone. It is best to email me for 
a definitive answer so I can check for you

-- 
John

john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.

Raymond E Feist Ring
http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 12:37:51 -0700
Subject: Re: Rays UK tour as received today
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On Monday, July 15, 2002, at 11:04 AM, John wrote:

> Please note there are time variations to what Ray Posted recently, so I 
> suggest contact the store. Also if you cant get there, some will take 
> phone orders
>
>
> Monday 9 September
>
> Lunch signing at        Hammicks        12.30-1.30pm
> 60-62 St Anns Road
> Harrow
> Contact:        Tony
> Tel:            020 8863 4578
>
> Evening event at        Borders 6.30pm
> 203-207 Oxford Street
> London W1
> Contact:        Simon
> Chaired by:     Pat Cadigan
> Tel:            020 7292 1650
> In conversation with Miller Lau
>
> Tuesday 10 September
> Lunch signing at        Hammicks        12.30-1.30pm
> 14-16 Chelsea House
> Queen Anne’s Walk
> Basingstoke
> Contact:        Bob
> Tel:            01256 460646
>
> Wednesday 11 September
> Evening event at        Ottakar’s       6.30pm
> 72 Midsummer Place
> Milton Keynes
> Bucks
> Contact:        Ben Donlan
> Tel:            01908 395384
>
> Thursday 12 September
> Lunch signing at        Blackwell’s     12.30-1.30pm
> 89 Park Street
> Bristol
> Contact:        Duncan Dewfall
> Tel:            0117 927 6602
>
> Evening event at        Waterstone’s    6.00pm
> 128 Princes Street
> Edinburgh
> Contact:        Jo  Gordon
> Tel:            0131 226 2666
>
> Friday 13 September
> Lunch signing with      Ottakar’s       12.30-1.30pm
> 31 The Bridges
> Sunderland
> Contact:        Steve Robinson
> Tel:            0191 567 4331
>
> Evening event at        Waterstone’s,   7.00pm
> 91 Deansgate
> Manchester
> Contact:        Michael Rowley/Jon Atkin
> Tel:            0161 837 3000
>
> Saturday 14 September
> Lunch signing with      Ottakar’s               1.00-2.00pm
> 76 High Street
> Chelmsford
> Essex
> Contact:        Clair Knight
> Tel:            01245 268737
>
>

I love the way you got the info before I did, John.

Who do I yell at?  Jane or Susan? <g>

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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From: "Earl Borah" <earl@ncn.com>
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> As to Cameron's  comment They are available to members at $26 including 
> shipping most anywhere. (They were $25 but the postage and packing went 
> up). You may also find them on a well known auction site at $19.99 but 
> then you have to pay $6 shipping (Note though that the condition of 
> those is not as fine.
> 
> I also have a few copies at $16 but these have large cover creases, 
> marks etc. not really collectable, more for just reading
> 
> This offer is available to all list members but I am rapidly running out

I got a copy some time ago (close to a year ago now, I think). It was a beautiful 
copy, that I haven't actually read yet -- I'm actually considering a "junk" copy 
so I don't have to worry about damaging the pages.

How pathetic is that? Of course, I have a hand in a splint right now, so the 
chance of actually damaging pages while I read one-handed is quite a bit higher....



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Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 21:20:54 +0100
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Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com> writes
>
>I love the way you got the info before I did, John.
>
>Who do I yell at?  Jane or Susan? <g>
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>----
>
Susan, and she is a nice person. Only emailed her yesterday, Looks 
exactly the same but with slight time changes. I assume you edited out 
the details when you posted before, or is that did you ? <BG>

Actually tried to find out how many copies of Magician but she is unsure 
yet. Interesting though based on what Cameron has told me of the OZ 
price I wonder if they all are being printed and bound in the UK to keep 
consistency on the Leatherette cover

-- 
John

john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.

Raymond E Feist Ring
http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm



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Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 13:53:04 -0700
Subject: Re: Rays UK tour as received today
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 13:53:04 -0700
Subject: Re: Rays UK tour as received today
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Monday, July 15, 2002, at 01:20 PM, John wrote:

> Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com> writes
>>
>> I love the way you got the info before I did, John.
>>
>> Who do I yell at?  Jane or Susan? <g>
>>
>> Best, R.E.F.
>> ----
>>
> Susan, and she is a nice person. Only emailed her yesterday, Looks 
> exactly the same but with slight time changes. I assume you edited out 
> the details when you posted before, or is that did you ? <BG>

I cut out things like my flight info and which hotels I was staying in. 
<g>

>
> Actually tried to find out how many copies of Magician but she is 
> unsure yet. Interesting though based on what Cameron has told me of the 
> OZ price I wonder if they all are being printed and bound in the UK to 
> keep consistency on the Leatherette cover
>

Both books are being printed in the UK.  Australia's Harper would rather 
do them Downunder but "Mother" (London) won't let them.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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From: "Cameron Duncan" <cduncan@atinera.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Rays UK tour as received today
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 07:07:33 +1000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Cameron Duncan" <cduncan@atinera.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Rays UK tour as received today
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 07:07:33 +1000
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<snip>

>
> >
> > Actually tried to find out how many copies of Magician but she is
> > unsure yet. Interesting though based on what Cameron has told me of the
> > OZ price I wonder if they all are being printed and bound in the UK to
> > keep consistency on the Leatherette cover
> >
>
> Both books are being printed in the UK.  Australia's Harper would rather
> do them Downunder but "Mother" (London) won't let them.
>
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
>
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
> stupidity.
>
That definitely explains the higher than normal price listing on some of the
Australian book shop web sites.  Newly released Hardbacks usually
retail for $45 AU (though are often discounted to $35 AU upon release.)
The 20th of Magician is listed at $65 AU.  I'm not sure if it'll be
discounted
or not.
*Looks like I won't be able to afford the 10 copies I wanted to buy for the
collection :(

Cameron



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*** EOOH ***
From: "Darren McClung" <dmcclung1@kc.rr.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Rays UK tour as received today
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 18:16:09 -0500
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Anyone have any thoughts on which store would be best to contact to have
signed copies mailed to the States?

Darren


> Please note there are time variations to what Ray Posted recently, so I
> suggest contact the store. Also if you cant get there, some will take
> phone orders
>
>
> Monday 9 September
>
> Lunch signing at        Hammicks        12.30-1.30pm
> 60-62 St Anns Road
> Harrow
> Contact:        Tony
> Tel:            020 8863 4578
>
> Evening event at        Borders 6.30pm
> 203-207 Oxford Street
> London W1
> Contact:        Simon
> Chaired by:     Pat Cadigan
> Tel:            020 7292 1650
> In conversation with Miller Lau
>
> Tuesday 10 September
> Lunch signing at        Hammicks        12.30-1.30pm
> 14-16 Chelsea House
> Queen Anne’s Walk
> Basingstoke
> Contact:        Bob
> Tel:            01256 460646
>
> Wednesday 11 September
> Evening event at        Ottakar’s       6.30pm
> 72 Midsummer Place
> Milton Keynes
> Bucks
> Contact:        Ben Donlan
> Tel:            01908 395384
>
> Thursday 12 September
> Lunch signing at        Blackwell’s     12.30-1.30pm
> 89 Park Street
> Bristol
> Contact:        Duncan Dewfall
> Tel:            0117 927 6602
>
> Evening event at        Waterstone’s    6.00pm
> 128 Princes Street
> Edinburgh
> Contact:        Jo  Gordon
> Tel:            0131 226 2666
>
> Friday 13 September
> Lunch signing with      Ottakar’s       12.30-1.30pm
> 31 The Bridges
> Sunderland
> Contact:        Steve Robinson
> Tel:            0191 567 4331
>
> Evening event at        Waterstone’s,   7.00pm
> 91 Deansgate
> Manchester
> Contact:        Michael Rowley/Jon Atkin
> Tel:            0161 837 3000
>
> Saturday 14 September
> Lunch signing with      Ottakar’s               1.00-2.00pm
> 76 High Street
> Chelmsford
> Essex
> Contact:        Clair Knight
> Tel:            01245 268737
>
>
> --
> John
>
> john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
> http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.
>
> Raymond E Feist Ring
> http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm
>



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 01:25:52 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: John <john@crydee.com>
Subject: Re: Rays UK tour as received today
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Cameron Duncan <cduncan@atinera.com.au> writes
>That definitely explains the higher than normal price listing on some of the
>Australian book shop web sites.  Newly released Hardbacks usually
>retail for $45 AU (though are often discounted to $35 AU upon release.)
>The 20th of Magician is listed at $65 AU.  I'm not sure if it'll be
>discounted
>or not.
>*Looks like I won't be able to afford the 10 copies I wanted to buy for the
>collection :(
>
>Cameron
>
>
At least we don't have to buy to countries versions though :)
-- 
John

john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.

Raymond E Feist Ring
http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm



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From: "Jeff Weidemann" <jeff@pronto.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Rays UK tour as received today
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 12:52:05 +1000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Jeff Weidemann" <jeff@pronto.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Rays UK tour as received today
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 12:52:05 +1000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

FYI - 'Mother' London is a result of the copyright act here in OZ, in
the early 1920's (IIRC) the Victorian (state of OZ) parliament,
dominated by fine English gentlemen, sold us out to the UK/London
publishers.  And we have been wearing the cost ever since!


-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Cameron Duncan
>Sent: Tuesday, 16 July 2002 7:08 AM
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: RE: Rays UK tour as received today
>
>
><snip>
>
>>
>> >
>> > Actually tried to find out how many copies of Magician but she is 
>> > unsure yet. Interesting though based on what Cameron has told me of 
>> > the OZ price I wonder if they all are being printed and bound in the
>
>> > UK to keep consistency on the Leatherette cover
>> >
>>
>> Both books are being printed in the UK.  Australia's Harper would 
>> rather do them Downunder but "Mother" (London) won't let them.
>>
>> Best, R.E.F.
>> ----
>>
>> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
>
>> stupidity.
>>
>That definitely explains the higher than normal price listing on some of
>the Australian book shop web sites.  Newly released Hardbacks usually
>retail for $45 AU (though are often discounted to $35 AU upon release.)
>The 20th of Magician is listed at $65 AU.  I'm not sure if it'll be
>discounted or not. *Looks like I won't be able to afford the 10 copies I
>wanted to buy for the collection :(
>
>Cameron
>


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Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 21:10:04 -0700
Subject: Re: Rays UK tour as received today
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 21:10:04 -0700
Subject: Re: Rays UK tour as received today
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On Monday, July 15, 2002, at 07:52 PM, Jeff Weidemann wrote:

> FYI - 'Mother' London is a result of the copyright act here in OZ, in
> the early 1920's (IIRC) the Victorian (state of OZ) parliament,
> dominated by fine English gentlemen, sold us out to the UK/London
> publishers.  And we have been wearing the cost ever since!
>
>

Actually, that's not true as of about ten years ago.  Australia has long 
since changed it's copyright laws since 1920, including becoming a 
signatory to the Berne Convention on Copyright.

What they did was declare themselves an "open" market, should the 
British publisher not have books in Oz within 45 days of publication, 
then the American publisher could export to Oz.  As US editions are 
usually cheaper, that gives them the edge.

So, if HaperCollins Australia prints it, without specific license from 
me as an exclusive market, it's open season.  I'll talk to some folks 
when I'm DownUnder about maybe rewriting contracts in the future, but 
for the moment, Oz and NZ are to the UK as Canada is to the US.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Subject: Re: Rays UK tour as received today
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Julie Wootten" <wootten@xtra.co.nz>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Rays UK tour as received today
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 17:49:29 +1200
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> What they did was declare themselves an "open" market, should the 
> British publisher not have books in Oz within 45 days of publication, 
> then the American publisher could export to Oz.  As US editions are 
> usually cheaper, that gives them the edge.
> 
> Best, R.E.F.

Why then are hardbacks in NZ imported from the US around $65,
while UK ones are $40-45?

Julie.




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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: Kenneth Jones <killkenny@thos.co.za>
Subject: RE: Profit and the Grey Assassin
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 08:18:20 +0200
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: Kenneth Jones <killkenny@thos.co.za>
Subject: RE: Profit and the Grey Assassin
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Think what it must be like for us South Africans with an exchange rate of 
$10.04 to one Rand!

At 12:58 AM 7/16/02 +1000, you wrote:
>John Bunting (from the list and also crydee.com) used to do a deal for
>list members that meant you'd essentially pay $25 US for the book plus
>postage.
>I'm not sure if he still does.
>It is definately worth buying if you like Ray's work.  If you collect
>his books, then you absolutely should own a copy.
>
>The notorious Australian exchange rate!  The Aussie dollar isn't too bad at
>the
>moment - about $0.56 US  At least you didn't pay nearly $200 US for  US
>hardback
>copy of Magician APE when the rate was $0.48 US!!!  Beleive me, that one
>hurt!!!
>
>Cameron
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Flynn Boyle
> > Sent: Monday, July 15, 2002 12:38 PM
> > To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > Subject: Profit and the Grey Assassin
> >
> >
> > Hi, I've seen Profit and the Grey Assassin advertized for $25US + pp in a
> > few places. I'd like to firstly know if anyone knows of somewhere
> > I can get
> > it for less. And secondly can somebody convince me why I should
> > buy it. (No
> > offence Ray, I'm sure its great, just the Australian exchange rate isn't
> > brilliant so I'd like to know how great first). Thanks, Flynn.
> >
> >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
> > http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
> >
> >



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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: Kenneth Jones <killkenny@thos.co.za>
Subject: RE: Profit and the Grey Assassin
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020716081014.03020a80@elvandar.thos.co.za>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 08:37:15 +0200
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: Kenneth Jones <killkenny@thos.co.za>
Subject: RE: Profit and the Grey Assassin
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

OOPS I mean 10.04 Rand to $1 {:-)

At 08:18 AM 7/16/02 +0200, you wrote:
>Think what it must be like for us South Africans with an exchange rate of 
>$10.04 to one Rand!
>
>At 12:58 AM 7/16/02 +1000, you wrote:
>>John Bunting (from the list and also crydee.com) used to do a deal for
>>list members that meant you'd essentially pay $25 US for the book plus
>>postage.
>>I'm not sure if he still does.
>>It is definately worth buying if you like Ray's work.  If you collect
>>his books, then you absolutely should own a copy.
>>
>>The notorious Australian exchange rate!  The Aussie dollar isn't too bad at
>>the
>>moment - about $0.56 US  At least you didn't pay nearly $200 US for  US
>>hardback
>>copy of Magician APE when the rate was $0.48 US!!!  Beleive me, that one
>>hurt!!!
>>
>>Cameron
>>
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>> > [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Flynn Boyle
>> > Sent: Monday, July 15, 2002 12:38 PM
>> > To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>> > Subject: Profit and the Grey Assassin
>> >
>> >
>> > Hi, I've seen Profit and the Grey Assassin advertized for $25US + pp in a
>> > few places. I'd like to firstly know if anyone knows of somewhere
>> > I can get
>> > it for less. And secondly can somebody convince me why I should
>> > buy it. (No
>> > offence Ray, I'm sure its great, just the Australian exchange rate isn't
>> > brilliant so I'd like to know how great first). Thanks, Flynn.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > _________________________________________________________________
>> > MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
>> > http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
>> >
>> >



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Subject: Offer for Norte Americanos Re: Rays UK tour as received today
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 08:45:54 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Offer for Norte Americanos Re: Rays UK tour as received today
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Ehem.  PAY ATTENTION, YOU LOT in the states! 

Now for my yearly act of altruism...

On the evening signing of the 11th, in Milton Keynes,
I will be attending to get, oh, three or four unsigned
editions signed.  Give or take.

On the 14th of September, I am flying to the States!

This means, that if you want, I can get you one/a couple
Talons and/or XXMags (<- giggle) signed, and then I'll
hand carry them over and mail them from California.

You get them quicker and hecka cheaper, and with a higher
security coefficient! than if they were shipped by a store
in the UK.

My 2 year old son had to buy a ticket, which means that
we have got /serious/ baggage allowance.  And I've been
working out.  

Send me your orders.  I'll be taking PayPal payments,
(or checks drawn on US accounts), at (cost converted to
US$ + s/h + any additional donations you are willing to
make)

And everybody who signs up for this gets a bound, autographed
copy of SOS, my first novel.  ;->

rip



At 00:16 16/07/2002, Darren McClung spake thusly:
>Anyone have any thoughts on which store would be best to contact to have
>signed copies mailed to the States?
>
>Darren
>
>
>> Please note there are time variations to what Ray Posted recently, so I
>> suggest contact the store. Also if you cant get there, some will take
>> phone orders
>>
>>
>> Monday 9 September
>>
>> Lunch signing at        Hammicks        12.30-1.30pm
>> 60-62 St Anns Road
>> Harrow
>> Contact:        Tony
>> Tel:            020 8863 4578
>>
>> Evening event at        Borders 6.30pm
>> 203-207 Oxford Street
>> London W1
>> Contact:        Simon
>> Chaired by:     Pat Cadigan
>> Tel:            020 7292 1650
>> In conversation with Miller Lau
>>
>> Tuesday 10 September
>> Lunch signing at        Hammicks        12.30-1.30pm
>> 14-16 Chelsea House
>> Queen Anne’s Walk
>> Basingstoke
>> Contact:        Bob
>> Tel:            01256 460646
>>
>> Wednesday 11 September
>> Evening event at        Ottakar’s       6.30pm
>> 72 Midsummer Place
>> Milton Keynes
>> Bucks
>> Contact:        Ben Donlan
>> Tel:            01908 395384
>>
>> Thursday 12 September
>> Lunch signing at        Blackwell’s     12.30-1.30pm
>> 89 Park Street
>> Bristol
>> Contact:        Duncan Dewfall
>> Tel:            0117 927 6602
>>
>> Evening event at        Waterstone’s    6.00pm
>> 128 Princes Street
>> Edinburgh
>> Contact:        Jo  Gordon
>> Tel:            0131 226 2666
>>
>> Friday 13 September
>> Lunch signing with      Ottakar’s       12.30-1.30pm
>> 31 The Bridges
>> Sunderland
>> Contact:        Steve Robinson
>> Tel:            0191 567 4331
>>
>> Evening event at        Waterstone’s,   7.00pm
>> 91 Deansgate
>> Manchester
>> Contact:        Michael Rowley/Jon Atkin
>> Tel:            0161 837 3000
>>
>> Saturday 14 September
>> Lunch signing with      Ottakar’s               1.00-2.00pm
>> 76 High Street
>> Chelmsford
>> Essex
>> Contact:        Clair Knight
>> Tel:            01245 268737
>>
>>
>> --
>> John
>>
>> john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
>> http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.
>>
>> Raymond E Feist Ring
>> http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm
>>



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*** EOOH ***
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From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
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Sorry for the interruption. Just wondring if the list is receiving my
messages?

Thanks
Darragh
================================================
msn: iamtheporkfireman@hotmail.com

"Believe or die - thank you O lord for all those
 options" - Bill Hicks.
================================================



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*** EOOH ***
From: "Stuart Maher" <stuart.maher@ntlworld.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Offer for Norte Americanos Re: Rays UK tour as received today
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 09:47:35 +0100
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Richard Williamson


>
> On the evening signing of the 11th, in Milton Keynes,
> I will be attending to get, oh, three or four unsigned
> editions signed.  Give or take.
>

What other list members are going to be at this signing? We should arrange a
few drinkies before/after/during!

Stu



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Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 10:01:32 +0100
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Subject: Re: Offer for Norte Americanos Re: Rays UK tour as received
  today
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At 08:45 16/07/2002, Richard Williamson spake thusly:
>Ehem.  PAY ATTENTION, YOU LOT in the states! 

Talon list is 17.99 UKSterling, and a/o now, 1 GBP = 1.57201 USD
              28.28 US$.

Magician list 20.00 UKSterling, 
              31.44 US$.

I checked www.usps.gov and figure that the postage will be on 
the close order of $3 (bound printed matter) per book.  So
$32 for Talon, and $35 for Magician, maximum...

I will try to swing a deal with Ottakers in Milton Keynes
to get a reduction, if I do, then I'll pass that on to you!
If you pay by check, I'll enclose a check for the difference,
or use the difference to increase the level of postage (from
bound printed matter, to priority mail, for example)

Regards,
rip



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Subject: Re: Editing
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Alex Loke" <nerf@alphalink.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Editing
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 19:01:35 +1000
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----- Original Message -----
From: Cameron Gurr <gurrc@brightontown.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, 16 July 2002 1:45
Subject: RE: Editing


> Ray, so what's my next step. Both you and Joel have said the same thing,
> the "potential agent" is a problem.
>
> But I'm operating in Australia, not America, which means the market is a
> lot smaller, and agents (of which there are fewer) tend to want this
> style of work to be done before they read. I mean 276,000 is a long book
> for Australia, especially a first book. They just don't come out that
> big here, not even fantasy. It took Sara Douglass 8 books before she
> started to fill up some pages, or even before she was released in
> hardcover. As you've said before Ray, publishing is a commercial
> enterprise.
>
> I've got the thing out there though, i.e. I've sent it to a number of
> agencies. This person is the first to respond. She's informed me that a
> 270,000 word book is going to be hard for her to market. She said knock
> off 76,000 because 200,000 is a nice round number, and she wants me
> close to that benchmark (yes, that is before she will read the whole
> MS).

I came across a similar problem with getting an Australian agent. Before you
do cut, I would recommend that you do a little research on the agency first.
Are they a specialist in your genre? Do they know what they're talking
about? I'd personally have a problem with someone asking you to put that
amount of work in without even considering the manuscript on it's merits
first. I did eventually find an agent, however the process was extremely
painful. I did get plenty of help from the Victorian Writer's Centre, who
might be able to give some good advice on the Australian market before you
go ahead.

Sorry to butt in...continue Feistfanning.

Regards,

Alex Loke



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Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 03:26:38 -0700
Subject: Re: Rays UK tour as received today
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 03:26:38 -0700
Subject: Re: Rays UK tour as received today
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On Monday, July 15, 2002, at 10:49 PM, Julie Wootten wrote:

>> What they did was declare themselves an "open" market, should the
>> British publisher not have books in Oz within 45 days of publication,
>> then the American publisher could export to Oz.  As US editions are
>> usually cheaper, that gives them the edge.
>>
>> Best, R.E.F.
>
> Why then are hardbacks in NZ imported from the US around $65,
> while UK ones are $40-45?
>
> Julie.
>
>
>
>
>

Because New Zealand isn't Australia, and didn't enact the same sorts of 
legislation.  Australia has a larger local publishing industry it's 
trying to protect.  Publishing in New Zealand is very tiny.  New Zealand 
tariffs are quite a bit stiffer than in Oz.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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> Because New Zealand isn't Australia, and didn't enact the same sorts of 
> legislation.  Australia has a larger local publishing industry it's 
> trying to protect.  Publishing in New Zealand is very tiny.  New Zealand 
> tariffs are quite a bit stiffer than in Oz.
> 
> Best, R.E.F.

Very true.  However, we are a much more physically attractive people.  :)
"Fools, I'll destroy them all!" - Mahatma Gandhi.
Paul Cowan.



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Ray wrote:

>Naw, I've written as much about that war as I want to, during the
>flash backs in Magician/Darkness. I might touch on that history again
>in the Fifth Rifwar, as a peek inside Tomas's head, again, but that
>would be it.
>
>Best, R.E.F.


He he.... we just learned Thomas will still be around at the time of
the fifth Riftwar..... <b malicious g>

Paddyjack


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On Tue, 16 Jul 2002, Paddyjack [ ] wrote:
> Ray wrote:
>
> >Naw, I've written as much about that war as I want to, during the flash
> >backs in Magician/Darkness. I might touch on that history again in the
> >Fifth Rifwar, as a peek inside Tomas's head, again, but that would be it.
>
> >Best, R.E.F.
>
> He he.... we just learned Thomas will still be around at the time of the
> fifth Riftwar..... <b malicious g>
>
> Paddyjack

I wouldn't bet the farm on it - for all we know Ray could have someone time
travel back to get the needed information (or have a character tell us what
Tomas said, or ... !-)

-- 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Cliff Nadler		Collective Technologies, LLC
cnadler@colltech.com	(512)-263-5500
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
To win, you must treat a pressure situation as an opportunity to succeed,
not an opportunity to fail			Gardner Dickinson



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Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 08:38:08 -0700
Subject: Re: Rays UK tour as received today
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
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On Friday, July 19, 2002, at 04:22 AM, Plite@xtra.co.nz wrote:

>
>> Because New Zealand isn't Australia, and didn't enact the same sorts of
>> legislation.  Australia has a larger local publishing industry it's
>> trying to protect.  Publishing in New Zealand is very tiny.  New 
>> Zealand
>> tariffs are quite a bit stiffer than in Oz.
>>
>> Best, R.E.F.
>
> Very true.  However, we are a much more physically attractive 
> people.  :)

Sorry, Mate, but I've been to both places.  Show me some ladies like 
I've seen along the beaches in Queensland, and then I'll agree.  Not 
that there aren't some lovelies in NZ, just not nearly as many of them. 
(Come to think of it, there aren't as many in all of New Zealand as 
there are in San Diego, because we've got a bigger population in the 
city than in all of NZ)

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 08:38:44 -0700
Subject: Re: Chaos wars Was Re: Circle inhabitants
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
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On Tuesday, July 16, 2002, at 07:19 AM, Paddyjack [ ] wrote:

>
> Ray wrote:
>
>
>> Naw, I've written as much about that war as I want to, during the 
>> flash backs in Magician/Darkness. I might touch on that history again 
>> in the Fifth Rifwar, as a peek inside Tomas's head, again, but that 
>> would be it.
>
>>
>
>> Best, R.E.F.
>
>
> He he.... we just learned Thomas will still be around at the time of 
> the fifth Riftwar..... <b malicious g>
>
>

That's not been a particular secret, that Pug and Tomas are there at the 
5th Riftwar.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
From: "Cameron Duncan" <cduncan@atinera.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Rays UK tour as received today
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<snip>

> Sorry, Mate, but I've been to both places.  Show me some ladies like
> I've seen along the beaches in Queensland, and then I'll agree.  Not
> that there aren't some lovelies in NZ, just not nearly as many of them.
> (Come to think of it, there aren't as many in all of New Zealand as
> there are in San Diego, because we've got a bigger population in the
> city than in all of NZ)
>
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
>
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
> stupidity.

That's why after growing up on the Gold Coast (Southern Queensland), and
spending all my weekends and school holidays at the beach, I could never
live
anywhere else <bg>
In fact, I had to move 45 minutes drive north to Brisbane for work, but I
still
make the trip to the Coast every weekend I can.  It's a wonderful part of
the
world (imho).

Cameron



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Quoting "Paddyjack [ ]" <erykel@lycos.com>:
> Ray wrote:
> 
> 
> >Naw, I've written as much about that war as I want to, during the flash
> backs in Magician/Darkness. I might touch on that history again in the
> Fifth Rifwar, as a peek inside Tomas's head, again, but that would be
> it.
> 
> >
> 
> >Best, R.E.F.
> 
> 
> He he.... we just learned Thomas will still be around at the time of the
> fifth Riftwar..... <b malicious g>
> 
> Paddyjack

Didn't Tomas become immortal (ageing-wise) as a result of going through the
transformation becoming the same as Ashen-Shugar? Adding to that fact that he
never struck me as the one to fall in battle given his skill, I'd reckon its
safe to assume he'll be around for a long, long time...
But nonetheless I'm pleased to see that there are plans for many more books set
in Midkemia. Without reading into it too much, the words 'dozen more books' used
by Ray were at least very promising!

As for another forthcoming storyline issue, I was wondering if Kesh will be
involved more. As far as I can remember, it was only in Prince of the Blood that
characters have ever been to Kesh for a length of time (begging forgiveness if
I've forgot something from any of the other novels). Also, since there always
seems to have been so much tension (and emphasis on this relationship in
dialogues) between the Kingdom and Kesh, I've been wanting to read more about
this conflict; both its origin but more so whether it will ever escalate into
some greater conflict sometime in a future novel...


Ciao!

Trym

------------------------------------------------------------
Få din egen @start.no-adresse gratis på http://www.start.no/



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----- Original Message -----
From: "Raymond Feist" <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2002 11:38 PM
Subject: Re: Rays UK tour as received today


>
> On Friday, July 19, 2002, at 04:22 AM, Plite@xtra.co.nz wrote:
>
> >
> >> Because New Zealand isn't Australia, and didn't enact the same sorts of
> >> legislation.  Australia has a larger local publishing industry it's
> >> trying to protect.  Publishing in New Zealand is very tiny.  New
> >> Zealand
> >> tariffs are quite a bit stiffer than in Oz.
> >>
> >> Best, R.E.F.
> >
> > Very true.  However, we are a much more physically attractive
> > people.  :)
>
> Sorry, Mate, but I've been to both places.  Show me some ladies like
> I've seen along the beaches in Queensland, and then I'll agree.  Not
> that there aren't some lovelies in NZ, just not nearly as many of them.
> (Come to think of it, there aren't as many in all of New Zealand as
> there are in San Diego, because we've got a bigger population in the
> city than in all of NZ)
>
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
>
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
> stupidity.

Thats because all of the New Zealanders have come to Australia *g*
I suppose it depends on individual taste, but Australia is pretty good, as
we have the biggest variety to pick from, along with the nice brown tan
under the sun.




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From: "Julie Wootten" <wootten@xtra.co.nz>
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> > Very true.  However, we are a much more physically attractive
> > people.  :)
>
> Sorry, Mate, but I've been to both places.  Show me some ladies like
> I've seen along the beaches in Queensland, and then I'll agree.  Not
>
> Best, R.E.F.

They're probably kiwis on the dole ;-)

Got my copy of MiL yesterday, but haven't got far yet.  I'm still getting
over the return trip from the US.  There's a world of difference between
1st class and cattle class (the middle seat of the middle column in the very
last row).  At least I assume there is.  My trip was hell.  I hate United.

Julie.




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> Thats because all of the New Zealanders have come to Australia *g*
> I suppose it depends on individual taste, but Australia is pretty good,
> as we have the biggest variety to pick from, along with the nice brown
> tan under the sun.

Tans today...wrinkled leather skin tomorrow...cancer on Thursday.

Maybe I'm just strange, but I don't see tans as appealing, and given
the health risks involved: ludicrous.




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>>
>>
>> He he.... we just learned Thomas will still be around at the time of 
>> the fifth Riftwar..... <b malicious g>
>>
>>
>
>That's not been a particular secret, that Pug and Tomas are there at the 
>5th Riftwar.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>----


ahhhh ok then.  Thank you for the clarification :-)

I thought that last time somebody asked about Pug and Thomas present
in the fifth Riftwar the answer was "I can't tell" :-)

I probably missed some posts about that.

Paddyjack


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Going to Las Vegas for three days with m'lady.

Play nice while I'm gone.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Subject: Re: Raybegone
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 21:29:55 +0100
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Paul Whitby" <pjwhitby@ntlworld.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Raybegone
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 21:29:55 +0100
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enjoy the bright lights.

Paul
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Raymond Feist" <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: <fEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2002 8:48 PM
Subject: Raybegone


> Going to Las Vegas for three days with m'lady.
> 
> Play nice while I'm gone.
> 
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
> 
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
> stupidity.
> 
> 



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Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 17:57:22 EDT
Subject: Re: Chaos wars Was Re: Circle inhabitants
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*** EOOH ***
From: SonOfTheTao@aol.com
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 17:57:22 EDT
Subject: Re: Chaos wars Was Re: Circle inhabitants
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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In a message dated 7/16/2002 3:57:33 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
erykel@lycos.com writes:


> ahhhh ok then.  Thank you for the clarification :-)
> 
> I thought that last time somebody asked about Pug and Thomas present in the 
> fifth Riftwar the answer was "I can't tell" :-)
> 
> I probably missed some posts about that.
> 
> Paddyjack
> 

       That very well may have been said, but there's another issue at play.  
Whatever the reasons may be, Ray could wipe Tomas or Pug off of Midkemia's 
map if need be. (off any map, for that matter)  Sometimes storylines change 
directions, characters lose their charm, ability to help roll the story 
forward, etc.
       Ray has said there are no guarantees, though through the forseeable 
future, (5th Riftwar) Pug & Co. should still be there.  Just a warning. =)

       Mike 

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Subject: Re: Chaos wars Was Re: Circle inhabitants
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Allan Mills" <amills1@bigpond.net.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Chaos wars Was Re: Circle inhabitants
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Paddyjack [ ]" <erykel@lycos.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2002 12:19 AM
Subject: Re: Chaos wars Was Re: Circle inhabitants



> He he.... we just learned Thomas will still be around at the time of the
> fifth Riftwar..... <b malicious g>
>
> Paddyjack
>
 So? He could be a talking head without a body or a disembodied spirit for
all we know.

 Allan


>
> _____________________________________________________
> Supercharge your e-mail with a 25MB Inbox, POP3 Access, No Ads
> and NoTaglines --> LYCOS MAIL PLUS.
> http://www.mail.lycos.com/brandPage.shtml?pageId=plus
>



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From: dreamfish@space.com
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On Tue, 16 July 2002, "James Young" wrote:
> 
> Tans today...wrinkled leather skin tomorrow...cancer on Thursday.
> 
> Maybe I'm just strange, but I don't see tans as appealing, and given
> the health risks involved: ludicrous.
  
 
You got that right! I have lived at the shore for 25
years, and the first few years I was a Sun-Worshipper.
Now if I get too much sun, I break out in hives, and I
have these weird little spots on my arms. 
 
 Sun...good for plants...bad for human skin!!
 
  
Anita
 
 
 'Every happy ending needs to have a start.'

___________________________________________________________________
Join the Space Program: Get FREE E-mail at http://www.space.com.



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Subject: RE: Rays UK tour as received today
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*** EOOH ***
From: "A Irving" <s355156@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Rays UK tour as received today
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 09:19:52 +1000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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So when you tour Queensland are you going to try and persuade your
publisher etc to... delay your time in brisbane :) (well you are here
for 2 days anyway, so if you could escape the ladies waiting for you
back home I bet you could probably do fine in 2 days here).

CIAO,
       Aaron

http://www.hallofworlds.net/kerr/main.php
http://www.nightshadow.co.uk


> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]
> On Behalf Of Raymond Feist
> Sent: Wednesday, 17 July 2002 1:38 AM
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Subject: Re: Rays UK tour as received today
> 
> 
> On Friday, July 19, 2002, at 04:22 AM, Plite@xtra.co.nz wrote:
> 
> >
> >> Because New Zealand isn't Australia, and didn't enact the same sorts of
> >> legislation.  Australia has a larger local publishing industry it's
> >> trying to protect.  Publishing in New Zealand is very tiny.  New
> >> Zealand
> >> tariffs are quite a bit stiffer than in Oz.
> >>
> >> Best, R.E.F.
> >
> > Very true.  However, we are a much more physically attractive
> > people.  :)
> 
> Sorry, Mate, but I've been to both places.  Show me some ladies like
> I've seen along the beaches in Queensland, and then I'll agree.  Not
> that there aren't some lovelies in NZ, just not nearly as many of them.
> (Come to think of it, there aren't as many in all of New Zealand as
> there are in San Diego, because we've got a bigger population in the
> city than in all of NZ)
> 
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
> 
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
> stupidity.



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Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 16:58:48 -0700 (PDT)
From: Chris Vance <pikachu_chris@yahoo.com.sg>
Subject: Re: test
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Yes we are
--- Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au> wrote:
> Sorry for the interruption. Just wondring if the
> list is receiving my
> messages?
> 
> Thanks
> Darragh
> ================================================
> msn: iamtheporkfireman@hotmail.com
> 
> "Believe or die - thank you O lord for all those
>  options" - Bill Hicks.
> ================================================
> 


=====
The Brainless

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Autos - Get free new car price quotes
http://autos.yahoo.com



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From: "James & Celeste Matlock" <jmatlock@cox.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Chaos wars Was Re: Circle inhabitants
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 19:14:22 -0700
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From: "James & Celeste Matlock" <jmatlock@cox.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Chaos wars Was Re: Circle inhabitants
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 19:14:22 -0700
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> 
> 
> On Tuesday, July 16, 2002, at 07:19 AM, Paddyjack [ ] wrote:
> 
> >
> > Ray wrote:
> >
> >
> >> Naw, I've written as much about that war as I want to, during the 
> >> flash backs in Magician/Darkness. I might touch on that history again 
> >> in the Fifth Rifwar, as a peek inside Tomas's head, again, but that 
> >> would be it.
> >
> >>
> >
> >> Best, R.E.F.
> >
> >
> > He he.... we just learned Thomas will still be around at the time of 
> > the fifth Riftwar..... <b malicious g>
> >
> >
> 
> That's not been a particular secret, that Pug and Tomas are there at the 
> 5th Riftwar.
> 
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
>

Yes, but I have a feeling that neither Pug nor Tomas will be around after
the 5th Riftwar.

Jim 



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Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2002 16:26:13 +1200
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From: Plite@xtra.co.nz
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2002 16:26:13 +1200
Subject: Re: Rays UK tour as received today
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> Sorry, Mate, but I've been to both places.  Show me some ladies like 
> I've seen along the beaches in Queensland, and then I'll agree.  Not 
> that there aren't some lovelies in NZ, just not nearly as many of them. 
> (Come to think of it, there aren't as many in all of New Zealand as 
> there are in San Diego, because we've got a bigger population in the 
> city than in all of NZ)
> 
Alas, I must admit 'tis true.  Kiwi's are brutish in appearance
compared to our fair tasman bretheren, we routinely visit our
australian cousins in order to suckle on their welfare system like a
horrible southern tick, and we scrapped our air force after we found
out that Australia would feel compelled to protect us with theirs.
But by the wooden teeth of my father, we kicked some aussie bum the
rugby last week.  :)

"Fools, I'll destroy them all!" - Mahatma Gandhi.
Paul Cowan.



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From: Paul Duthie <duthie.paul.j@edumail.vic.gov.au>
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Hello Plite,



Saturday, July 20, 2002, 2:26:13 PM, you wrote:

>> Sorry, Mate, but I've been to both places.  Show me some ladies like 
>> I've seen along the beaches in Queensland, and then I'll agree.  Not 
>> that there aren't some lovelies in NZ, just not nearly as many of them. 
>> (Come to think of it, there aren't as many in all of New Zealand as 
>> there are in San Diego, because we've got a bigger population in the 
>> city than in all of NZ)
>> 
Pxcn> Alas, I must admit 'tis true.  Kiwi's are brutish in appearance compared to our fair tasman 
Pxcn> bretheren, we routinely visit our australian cousins in order to suckle on their welfare system 
Pxcn> like a horrible southern tick, and we scrapped our air force after we found out that Australia 
Pxcn> would feel compelled to protect us with theirs.  But by the wooden teeth of my father, we 
Pxcn> kicked some aussie bum the rugby last week.  :)

For the moment :)

Wait until the next match....

Pxcn> "Fools, I'll destroy them all!" - Mahatma Gandhi.
Pxcn> Paul Cowan.


-- 
Best regards,
Paul Duthie                     duthie.paul.j@edumail.vic.gov.au
Network Manager,
Ballarat High School            www.ballaraths.vic.edu.au
Sent Using The Bat! Version 1.60h



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Subject: OT: Damn Kiwis (Was Re: Rays UK tour as received today)
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----- Original Message -----
From: <Plite@xtra.co.nz>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Saturday, July 20, 2002 2:26 PM
Subject: Re: Rays UK tour as received today


> Alas, I must admit 'tis true.  Kiwi's are brutish in appearance compared to our fair tasman
> bretheren, we routinely visit our australian cousins in order to suckle on their welfare system
> like a horrible southern tick, and we scrapped our air force after we found out that Australia
> would feel compelled to protect us with theirs.

That's what you think... After all your dole-bludging antics, it's a bit of
a tall order for NZ to ask for anything bigger than a rubber band-powered
glider.... ;)

Although you're welcome to borrow the Collins-class subs, and they'll even
dig a trench across the bottom of the Tasman that you can lay some cables in
or something, lol... (Courtesy of our government's pathetic brown-nose
attitude to the Yanks, but don't get me started) :)

> But by the wooden teeth of my father, we
> kicked some aussie bum the rugby last week.  :)

Only cause it was pissing down rain in nigh-on-subzero temperatures, and we
have a strange phenomenon in our country called "decent weather," something
our players have become strangely used to...  :)

Cheers,
James The Good-Looking Aussie



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Subject: RE: Damn Kiwis (Was Re: Rays UK tour as received today)
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 17:35:57 +1000
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Here, Here, I completely agree

>> Alas, I must admit 'tis true.  Kiwi's are brutish in appearance compared to our fair tasman
>> bretheren, we routinely visit our australian cousins in order to suckle on their welfare system
>> like a horrible southern tick, and we scrapped our air force after we found out that Australia
>> would feel compelled to protect us with theirs.
>
>That's what you think... After all your dole-bludging antics, it's a bit of
>a tall order for NZ to ask for anything bigger than a rubber band-powered
>glider.... ;)
>
>Although you're welcome to borrow the Collins-class subs, and they'll even
>dig a trench across the bottom of the Tasman that you can lay some cables in
>or something, lol... (Courtesy of our government's pathetic brown-nose
>attitude to the Yanks, but don't get me started) :)
>
>> But by the wooden teeth of my father, we
>> kicked some aussie bum the rugby last week.  :)
>
>Only cause it was pissing down rain in nigh-on-subzero temperatures, and we
>have a strange phenomenon in our country called "decent weather," something
>our players have become strangely used to...  :)
>
>Cheers,
>James The Good-Looking Aussie

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From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
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Subject: Re: Rays UK tour as received today
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Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 17:45:18 +1000 (GMT+1000)
From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Rays UK tour as received today
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> >
> > On Friday, July 19, 2002, at 04:22 AM, Plite@xtra.co.nz wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >> Because New Zealand isn't Australia, and didn't enact the same sorts of
> > >> legislation.  Australia has a larger local publishing industry it's
> > >> trying to protect.  Publishing in New Zealand is very tiny.  New
> > >> Zealand
> > >> tariffs are quite a bit stiffer than in Oz.
> > >>
> > >> Best, R.E.F.
> > >
> > > Very true.  However, we are a much more physically attractive
> > > people.  :)
> >
> > Sorry, Mate, but I've been to both places.  Show me some ladies like
> > I've seen along the beaches in Queensland, and then I'll agree.  Not
> > that there aren't some lovelies in NZ, just not nearly as many of them.
> > (Come to think of it, there aren't as many in all of New Zealand as
> > there are in San Diego, because we've got a bigger population in the
> > city than in all of NZ)
> >
> > Best, R.E.F.
> > ----
>
> Thats because all of the New Zealanders have come to Australia *g*
> I suppose it depends on individual taste, but Australia is pretty good, as
> we have the biggest variety to pick from, along with the nice brown tan
> under the sun.

Not to mention the skin cancer capital of the world. Personally, I dislike
the tanned look, but then agian, I'm weird.

Thanks
Darragh
================================================
msn: iamtheporkfireman@hotmail.com

"Believe or die - thank you O lord for all those
 options" - Bill Hicks.
================================================



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Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 09:52:39 +0200 (CEST)
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Quoting dreamfish@space.com:
>> Maybe I'm just strange, but I don't see tans as appealing, and given
>> the health risks involved: ludicrous.
>   
> You got that right! I have lived at the shore for 25
> years, and the first few years I was a Sun-Worshipper.
> Now if I get too much sun, I break out in hives, and I
> have these weird little spots on my arms. 
>  
>  Sun...good for plants...bad for human skin!!
>  
>   
> Anita
>  

Don't want to turn this into a health debate, but I believe sunlight does give
you some extra energy, so you'll take no harm doing the occasional tanning...
what's dangerous is that people use too low factor on their sunblock (or not at
all!!) and get a bit too much exposure to those lovely beams of light. The sun
never harmed anyone other than from stupidity at not taking necessary precautions.

Give me sun any day, there's too much darkness during winter and autumn back in
Norway anyway..

That's my 2 Euros on the matter, anyway. :)

Trym

------------------------------------------------------------
Få din egen @start.no-adresse gratis på http://www.start.no/



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From: "Donal K. Fellows" <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk>
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	<20020716160222.27445.h009.c000.wm@mail.space.com.criticalpath.net>
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Donal K. Fellows" <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Rays UK tour as received today
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 09:35:45 +0100
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dreamfish@space.com
> You got that right! I have lived at the shore for 25
> years, and the first few years I was a Sun-Worshipper.
> Now if I get too much sun, I break out in hives, and I
> have these weird little spots on my arms. 

So?  Move to Manchester and you'll solve that problem in no time flat.

Donal (it's not raining here at the moment, honest!)
-- 
Donal K. Fellows, Department of Computer Science, University of Manchester, UK.
(work) fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk     Tel: +44-161-275-6137  (preferred email addr.)
(home) donal@ugglan.demon.co.uk  Tel: +44-1274-401017   Mobile: +44-7957-298955
http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~fellowsd/  (Don't quote my .sig; I've seen it before!)



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Subject: Sunlight (was Re: Rays UK tour as received today)
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 04:16:01 -0500
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From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Sunlight (was Re: Rays UK tour as received today)
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 04:16:01 -0500
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    There is of course value to being in the sun for vitamin D
synthization, but it is not an excuse to tan, since tanning is the
point at which you have begun to damage the cells.  It is always a
good thing to get some exposure to the sun, and in some climates
that is hard to do on a regular basis. I'm origionally from Flint,
Michigan which is one of the cloudiest places on earth, 300+ days a
year without direct sun exposure and it does affect your health and
moods, Norway I understand can be much the same.  But in places
where the sun is frequently out, people can (and often do) get too
much exposure.  So deliberately being in the sun for astetic reasons
(which is what tanning is), is in my opinion and in the opinion of a
lot of medical professionals: ludacris.  One needs sunlight, but one
does not ever need to tan.

    I'll leave it at this before we start a big debate over the
issue (besides which I can't play, I'm leaving for Cali tomorrow).
And the Aussies and Kiwi's seem to be having more fun playing rugby
one-upsmanship again.

> Don't want to turn this into a health debate, but I believe sunlight does give
> you some extra energy, so you'll take no harm doing the occasional tanning...
> what's dangerous is that people use too low factor on their sunblock (or not at
> all!!) and get a bit too much exposure to those lovely beams of light. The sun
> never harmed anyone other than from stupidity at not taking necessary precautions.
>
> Give me sun any day, there's too much darkness during winter and autumn back in
> Norway anyway..
>
> That's my 2 Euros on the matter, anyway. :)
>
> Trym




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At 09:35 17/07/2002, Donal K. Fellows spake thusly:
>dreamfish@space.com
>> You got that right! I have lived at the shore for 25
>> years, and the first few years I was a Sun-Worshipper.
>> Now if I get too much sun, I break out in hives, and I
>> have these weird little spots on my arms. 
>
>So?  Move to Manchester and you'll solve that problem in no time flat.

Plus, you get the added benefit of 'Ray-always-does-a-signing-in-
Manchester'. 

rip



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From: Plite@xtra.co.nz
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Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2002 22:09:23 +1200
Subject: Re: OT: Damn Kiwis (Was Re: Rays UK tour as received today)
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> That's what you think... After all your dole-bludging antics, it's a bit of
> a tall order for NZ to ask for anything bigger than a rubber band-powered
> glider.... ;)

Unfortunately there's that whole mutual defense treaty thing we
suckered you into.  I wouldn't worry though, in its entire history the
New Zealand air force needed to fire its guns in anger only once, at a
Japanese trawler illegally fishing.  We missed...

> Only cause it was pissing down rain in nigh-on-subzero temperatures, and we
> have a strange phenomenon in our country called "decent weather," something
> our players have become strangely used to...  :)

Ah, the "we're soft" excuse.  Next time we'll play on fields of cotton
wool (not sheep wool, the lanolin is harsh on the skin) in our best
frilly pink tutu's.  Jonah shall carry a dear little wand.  :)

"Fools, I'll destroy them all!" - Mahatma Gandhi.
Paul Cowan.



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 13:45:17 +0200
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: Kenneth Jones <killkenny@thos.co.za>
Subject: Re: OT: Damn Kiwis (Was Re: Rays UK tour as received today)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Little do you all know... South Africa is gonna ANNIHILATE!!!!!


At 10:09 PM 7/20/02 +1200, you wrote:
> > That's what you think... After all your dole-bludging antics, it's a bit of
> > a tall order for NZ to ask for anything bigger than a rubber band-powered
> > glider.... ;)
>
>Unfortunately there's that whole mutual defense treaty thing we suckered 
>you into.  I wouldn't
>worry though, in its entire history the New Zealand air force needed to 
>fire its guns in anger
>only once, at a Japanese trawler illegally fishing.  We missed...
>
> > Only cause it was pissing down rain in nigh-on-subzero temperatures, and we
> > have a strange phenomenon in our country called "decent weather," something
> > our players have become strangely used to...  :)
>
>Ah, the "we're soft" excuse.  Next time we'll play on fields of cotton 
>wool (not sheep wool, the
>lanolin is harsh on the skin) in our best frilly pink tutu's.  Jonah shall 
>carry a dear little wand.
>:)
>
>"Fools, I'll destroy them all!" - Mahatma Gandhi.
>Paul Cowan.



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 05:58:03 -0700 (PDT)
From: Fred Collington <fcolling@yahoo.com>
Subject: Tans
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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<cut>"On Tue, 16 July 2002, "James Young" wrote: 
>>Tans today...wrinkled leather skin tomorrow...cancer
>>on Thursday.
>>Maybe I'm just strange, but I don't see tans as
>>appealing, and given
>>the health risks involved: ludicrous.
>>  
> 
>You got that right! I have lived at the shore for 25
>years, and the first few years I was a Sun-Worshipper.
>Now if I get too much sun, I break out in hives, and I
>have these weird little spots on my arms. 
> 
>Sun...good for plants...bad for human skin!!
>  
>Anita"<end cut>
 
Ahh, but the thrill of uncovering the white bits makes
tans desirable!

OK, Now, all three of us get back on topic! Ray, Are
you getting a tan in Lost Wages?

Cheers,
Fred

=====
Fred Collington
Oracle DBA
Naval Air Warfare Center

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Autos - Get free new car price quotes
http://autos.yahoo.com



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	(message from Richard Williamson on Wed, 17 Jul 2002 10:27:06 +0100)
Subject: Re: Rays UK tour as received today
References: < <20020716160222.27445.h009.c000.wm@mail.space.com.criticalpath.net>
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Donal K. Fellows" <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Rays UK tour as received today
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 15:53:21 +0100
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Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
> Plus, you get the added benefit of 'Ray-always-does-a-signing-in-
> Manchester'. 

Hmm.  There's a definite risk that might be when I'm en-route to a
conference in Vancouver (that starts the following Monday.)  Depends
on flights I suppose...

Donal.
-- 
Donal K. Fellows, Department of Computer Science, University of Manchester, UK.
(work) fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk     Tel: +44-161-275-6137  (preferred email addr.)
(home) donal@ugglan.demon.co.uk  Tel: +44-1274-401017   Mobile: +44-7957-298955
http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~fellowsd/  (Don't quote my .sig; I've seen it before!)



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From: "Terri Lyn Layman" <terrilyn@fullnet.com>
To: "FeistList \(E-mail\)" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Coinage...
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 10:55:43 -0500
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Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: "Terri Lyn Layman" <terrilyn@fullnet.com>
To: "FeistList \(E-mail\)" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Coinage...
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 10:55:43 -0500
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

This is primarily a personal query, but there is a Feist-related bit to it.

I'm a coin collector, but not in the traditional sense... I actually like to
collect currency of foreign nations.
But, well... I lack the globe-trotting lifestyle of Mr Feist to actually
make a decent go at getting the currency myself.  So... I propose a trade.
A "dollar coin" (or some equivalent, whatever looks fun) from whereever you
may be to one of the US's Sacagawea dollar coins (or if you prefer, a
traditional greenback).  Granted, this is just a dollar, but if I'm to
understand exchange rates correctly, some of you stand to make a profit,
others, a loss.

Would anyone here be interested in such an exchange?  I think it would be
fun!

Now for the Feist bit:
The kingdom, having borrowed serious coin from Roo... how exactly are they
going to be able to pay him back?  If I read the book right, they borrowed
from him to finance the war as to avoid having to tax their citizens.  So,
how are they going to pay him back without the tax they were trying to
avoid?

Thanks,
-TerriLyn



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Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 17:47:09 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: Will Menzies <will.menzies@btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: Coinage...
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TerriLyn

Could send you a pound-coin I suppose - they are a bit dull - the 2-pounder 
looks better though :P

Also, note that European Union countries are phasing out their currencies 
(shakes head) in favour of the loverly Euro (By the way one of the coins 
does not land on heads or tails 50/50 - great design Euro-crats!

Regards

Will Menzies

At 10:55 17/07/02 -0500, you wrote:
>This is primarily a personal query, but there is a Feist-related bit to it.
>
>I'm a coin collector, but not in the traditional sense... I actually like to
>collect currency of foreign nations.
>But, well... I lack the globe-trotting lifestyle of Mr Feist to actually
>make a decent go at getting the currency myself.  So... I propose a trade.
>A "dollar coin" (or some equivalent, whatever looks fun) from whereever you
>may be to one of the US's Sacagawea dollar coins (or if you prefer, a
>traditional greenback).  Granted, this is just a dollar, but if I'm to
>understand exchange rates correctly, some of you stand to make a profit,
>others, a loss.
>
>Would anyone here be interested in such an exchange?  I think it would be
>fun!
>
>Now for the Feist bit:
>The kingdom, having borrowed serious coin from Roo... how exactly are they
>going to be able to pay him back?  If I read the book right, they borrowed
>from him to finance the war as to avoid having to tax their citizens.  So,
>how are they going to pay him back without the tax they were trying to
>avoid?
>
>Thanks,
>-TerriLyn



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From: Nick D <nick_deveau@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Rays UK tour as received today
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 12:03:01 -0700 (PDT)
From: Nick D <nick_deveau@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Rays UK tour as received today
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

HOW DO I STOP THESE MESSAGES FROM APEARING IN MY
MAIL!!!HELP I DIDNT SIGN UP FOR THIS!!!

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Autos - Get free new car price quotes
http://autos.yahoo.com



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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Coinage... 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 17 Jul 2002 10:55:43 EST."
             <000101c22daa$68c92c60$74cefea9@ctlayman> 
Cc: Alan.Hargreaves@Sun.COM
From: Alan.Hargreaves@Sun.COM
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*** EOOH ***
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Coinage... 
Cc: Alan.Hargreaves@Sun.COM
From: Alan.Hargreaves@Sun.COM
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 08:09:59 +1000
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

As I understand it (and I actually finished RoaMP again last night), the 
kingdom did not expect to be able to pay him back. When Roo hesitated here, 
James reminded him of the alternative (ie what would happen if it couldn't be 
financed).


alan.
--
Alan Hargreaves                 Senior Technical Support Specialist
Phone      : +61 2 9844 5379    
Mobile     : +61 416 207 573    Product Technical Support (APAC)
Fax        : +61 2 9418 2143    Sun Microsystems
Call Centre: 1 800 555 786      828 Pacific Highway, Gordon NSW 2072

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From: "A Irving" <s355156@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Rays UK tour as received today
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 09:08:58 +1000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "A Irving" <s355156@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Rays UK tour as received today
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 09:08:58 +1000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]
[snip]
> > > Sorry, Mate, but I've been to both places.  Show me some ladies like
> > > I've seen along the beaches in Queensland, and then I'll agree. Not
> > > that there aren't some lovelies in NZ, just not nearly as many of them.
> > > (Come to think of it, there aren't as many in all of New Zealand as
> > > there are in San Diego, because we've got a bigger population in the
> > > city than in all of NZ)
> > >
> > > Best, R.E.F.
> > Thats because all of the New Zealanders have come to Australia *g*
> > I suppose it depends on individual taste, but Australia is pretty good,
> as
> > we have the biggest variety to pick from, along with the nice brown tan
> > under the sun.
> 
> Not to mention the skin cancer capital of the world. Personally, I dislike
> the tanned look, but then agian, I'm weird.
> 
> Thanks
> Darragh
No, your Irish. Not many Irish people like that tanned look. Quite a few
aussies don't aswell. Now when you are working in a centre that focuses
on skin and cervical cancer, you begin to dislike that tanned look
aswell.

CIAO,
       Aaron

http://www.hallofworlds.net/kerr/main.php
http://www.nightshadow.co.uk



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From: "Allan Mills" <amills1@bigpond.net.au>
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References: <20020717190301.88072.qmail@web9704.mail.yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Rays UK tour as received today
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 09:23:58 +1000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Allan Mills" <amills1@bigpond.net.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>, <nick_deveau@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Rays UK tour as received today
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 09:23:58 +1000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

 Send an e-mail to listproc@cornell.edu
 For the body of the e-mail have : unsubscribe feistfans-l

 Allan

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Nick D" <nick_deveau@yahoo.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Thursday, July 18, 2002 5:03 AM
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Rays UK tour as received today


> HOW DO I STOP THESE MESSAGES FROM APEARING IN MY
> MAIL!!!HELP I DIDNT SIGN UP FOR THIS!!!
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Autos - Get free new car price quotes
> http://autos.yahoo.com
> 



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From: "Jeff Weidemann" <jeff@pronto.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Coinage... 
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 13:50:56 +1000
Message-ID: <000101c22e0e$5262c620$170511ac@jeffw>
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Jeff Weidemann" <jeff@pronto.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Coinage... 
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 13:50:56 +1000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Yep, just finished it again. Also remember the kingdom, was partly
responsible for creating Roos' wealth.

-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of
>Alan.Hargreaves@Sun.COM
>Sent: Thursday, 18 July 2002 8:10 AM
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Cc: Alan.Hargreaves@Sun.COM
>Subject: Re: Coinage... 
>
>
>As I understand it (and I actually finished RoaMP again last night), the
>
>kingdom did not expect to be able to pay him back. When Roo hesitated
>here, 
>James reminded him of the alternative (ie what would happen if it
>couldn't be 
>financed).
>
>
>alan.
>--
>Alan Hargreaves                 Senior Technical Support Specialist
>Phone      : +61 2 9844 5379    
>Mobile     : +61 416 207 573    Product Technical Support (APAC)
>Fax        : +61 2 9418 2143    Sun Microsystems
>Call Centre: 1 800 555 786      828 Pacific Highway, Gordon NSW 2072
>
> /"\
> \ / ASCII Ribbon Campaign
>  X  Against HTML Mail
> / \ 

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From: "Donal K. Fellows" <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
In-reply-to: <000101c22daa$68c92c60$74cefea9@ctlayman> (terrilyn@fullnet.com)
Subject: Re: Coinage...
References:  <000101c22daa$68c92c60$74cefea9@ctlayman>
Message-Id: <E17V6dE-0003hB-00@athene>
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 09:27:28 +0100
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Donal K. Fellows" <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Coinage...
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 09:27:28 +0100
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[spoilers]















"Terri Lyn Layman" <terrilyn@fullnet.com>
> The kingdom, having borrowed serious coin from Roo... how exactly
> are they going to be able to pay him back?  If I read the book
> right, they borrowed from him to finance the war as to avoid having
> to tax their citizens.  So, how are they going to pay him back
> without the tax they were trying to avoid?

IIRC, didn't Roo get a landed peerage or something like that?  In
largely agricultural societies (such as the Kingdom) those are the
major sources of wealth (rents, tithes, etc.)

Donal.
-- 
Donal K. Fellows, Department of Computer Science, University of Manchester, UK.
(work) fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk     Tel: +44-161-275-6137  (preferred email addr.)
(home) donal@ugglan.demon.co.uk  Tel: +44-1274-401017   Mobile: +44-7957-298955
http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~fellowsd/  (Don't quote my .sig; I've seen it before!)



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Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 19:08:43 +0100
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From: Grandad Rufus <rufo@bigwig.net>
Subject: Re: Rays UK tour as received today
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 19:08:43 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: Grandad Rufus <rufo@bigwig.net>
Subject: Re: Rays UK tour as received today
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In article <EIyJNxG56wM9Ewta@bluyonder.co.uk>, John <john@crydee.com>
writes
>Please note there are time variations to what Ray Posted recently, so I 
>suggest contact the store. Also if you cant get there, some will take 
>phone orders
>
>
>Monday 9 September
>
>
>Evening event at        Borders 6.30pm
>203-207 Oxford Street
>London W1
>Contact:        Simon
>Chaired by:     Pat Cadigan
>Tel:            020 7292 1650
>In conversation with Miller Lau
>

Has anyone been able to contact Borders yet ? I'm trying to find out if
this one is a Ticket Only event, but no one is answering the 'phone!



>
>Saturday 14 September
>Lunch signing with      Ottakar’s               1.00-2.00pm
>76 High Street
>Chelmsford
>Essex
>Contact:        Clair Knight
>Tel:            01245 268737
>
>

I hope to be at this one as well!

-- 
*******
Grandad Rufus.

It's not that I have a dirty mind, you understand.
It's just that so many of my thoughts leave muddy little footprints...



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From: "Cameron Duncan" <cduncan@atinera.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: OT - Software question
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 07:40:48 +1000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Cameron Duncan" <cduncan@atinera.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: OT - Software question
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 07:40:48 +1000
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Hi all, sorry for the OT topic, but I'm stuck on something for work and was
hoping
someone on the list could help -
When errors occur on our servers, I need the generated email alerts to be
sent to an oncall
mobile phone. Does anyone know of a software package that enables emails to
be sent to a
mobile phone via SMS?
If you can help, please reply off list to keep the OT traffic to a minimum.

cheers,

Cameron



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From: "James Holden" <james@globalvision.com>
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Subject: RE: OT - Software question
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*** EOOH ***
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From: "James Holden" <james@globalvision.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: OT - Software question
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 09:49:28 +0100
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Cameron,

We use http://www.n-systems.com/prepay/ for our SMS notifications.  When
our services bomb out we automatically send out an email using this
service.

Jim

-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Cameron Duncan
>Sent: 18 July 2002 22:41
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: OT - Software question
>
>
>Hi all, sorry for the OT topic, but I'm stuck on something for work and
>was hoping someone on the list could help - When errors occur on our
>servers, I need the generated email alerts to be sent to an oncall
>mobile phone. Does anyone know of a software package that enables emails
>to be sent to a mobile phone via SMS? If you can help, please reply off
>list to keep the OT traffic to a minimum.
>
>cheers,
>
>Cameron
>


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From: Chris Vance <pikachu_chris@yahoo.com.sg>
Subject: Re: OT: Damn Kiwis 
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2002 14:05:41 -0700 (PDT)
From: Chris Vance <pikachu_chris@yahoo.com.sg>
Subject: Re: OT: Damn Kiwis 
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Boys.... Stop all this bickering about who's better
than whom now. Let's put it this way.... We're all
better off than Osama now.... Because everybody
everywhere want's to kick his scrawny terrorist butt.

But just for the record NZlanders should stop wearing
woolly underwears.... It's indecent what they think of
for self gratification :)

--- Plite@xtra.co.nz wrote:
> > That's what you think... After all your
> dole-bludging antics, it's a bit of
> > a tall order for NZ to ask for anything bigger
> than a rubber band-powered
> > glider.... ;)
> 
> Unfortunately there's that whole mutual defense
> treaty thing we suckered you into.  I wouldn't 
> worry though, in its entire history the New Zealand
> air force needed to fire its guns in anger 
> only once, at a Japanese trawler illegally fishing. 
> We missed...  
> 
> > Only cause it was pissing down rain in
> nigh-on-subzero temperatures, and we
> > have a strange phenomenon in our country called
> "decent weather," something
> > our players have become strangely used to...  :)
> 
> Ah, the "we're soft" excuse.  Next time we'll play
> on fields of cotton wool (not sheep wool, the 
> lanolin is harsh on the skin) in our best frilly
> pink tutu's.  Jonah shall carry a dear little wand. 
> 
> :)
> 
> "Fools, I'll destroy them all!" - Mahatma Gandhi.
> Paul Cowan.
> 


=====
The Brainless

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better
http://health.yahoo.com



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*** EOOH ***
From: JEEPMONSTER69@aol.com
Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 00:10:12 EDT
Subject: Re: OT: Damn Kiwis 
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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In a message dated 7/20/2002 5:56:44 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
pikachu_chris@yahoo.com.sg writes:


> Boys.... Stop all this bickering about who's better
> than whom now. Let's put it this way.... We're all
> better off than Osama now.... Because everybody
> everywhere want's to kick his scrawny terrorist butt.
> 
> But just for the record NZlanders should stop wearing
> woolly underwears.... It's indecent what they think of
> for self gratification :)
> 

I don't know about everyone, pal- have you heard the French theory about 
9/11? They seem to think that the WTC was taken down by planes flown by 
Bush's brainwashed tools, and that the Pentagon was hit by a missle.  Kinda 
makes me regret what we did in 1918 and 1944....

                                                             Peace,
                                                                         Matt
"Lets Roll."- Todd Beamer
USA, Muthafacko!

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From: "A Gnome" <nightshadow@froggy.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: talon extract, voyager
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*** EOOH ***
From: "A Gnome" <nightshadow@froggy.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: talon extract, voyager
Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 19:32:34 +1000
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Hi, I thought a few of you might want to see a little extract from Talon of
the Silver Hawk.
http://www.voyageronline.com.au/books/extract.cfm?ISBN=0002246813
It is the first passage, so a decent intro. I apologise if this has already
been pasted to the list. I got the link from 'ashen shugar' on the
hallofworlds forum.
CIAO,
           Aaron

http://www.hallofworlds.net/kerr/main.php
http://www.nightshadow.co.uk



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 09:27:19 -0700
Subject: Re: talon extract, voyager
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Sunday, July 21, 2002, at 02:32 AM, A Gnome wrote:

> Hi, I thought a few of you might want to see a little extract from 
> Talon of
> the Silver Hawk.
> http://www.voyageronline.com.au/books/extract.cfm?ISBN=0002246813
> It is the first passage, so a decent intro. I apologise if this has 
> already
> been pasted to the list. I got the link from 'ashen shugar' on the
> hallofworlds forum.
> CIAO,
>

That's almost half of chapter 1, so they posted more than I thought they 
would.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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From: "Rob Kolech" <feistfan@rogers.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: talon extract, voyager
Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 13:17:06 -0400
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Rob Kolech" <feistfan@rogers.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: talon extract, voyager
Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 13:17:06 -0400
X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at fep04-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com from [24.102.215.75] using ID <feistfan@rogers.com> at Sun, 21 Jul 2002 13:16:16 -0400
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That was really good.  This is going to make the next few months very long
indeed.  Now I want to read the rest!!
I can't wait!

Rob K.

-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Raymond Feist
>Sent: July 21, 2002 12:27 PM
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: Re: talon extract, voyager
>
>
>
>On Sunday, July 21, 2002, at 02:32 AM, A Gnome wrote:
>
>> Hi, I thought a few of you might want to see a little extract from
>> Talon of
>> the Silver Hawk.
>> http://www.voyageronline.com.au/books/extract.cfm?ISBN=0002246813
>> It is the first passage, so a decent intro. I apologise if this has
>> already
>> been pasted to the list. I got the link from 'ashen shugar' on the
>> hallofworlds forum.
>> CIAO,
>>
>
>That's almost half of chapter 1, so they posted more than I thought they
>would.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
>stupidity.
>



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From: "Western Rhythm" <info@westernrhythm.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
References: <BA3A82C8-9CC6-11D6-836C-003065A8A644@bittersea.com>
Subject: Re: talon extract, voyager
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Western Rhythm" <info@westernrhythm.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: talon extract, voyager
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 01:52:21 +0800
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Its excellently written, can't wait for the book now :)
When's the formal release date again?
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Raymond Feist" <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 12:27 AM
Subject: Re: talon extract, voyager


> 
> On Sunday, July 21, 2002, at 02:32 AM, A Gnome wrote:
> 
> > Hi, I thought a few of you might want to see a little extract from 
> > Talon of
> > the Silver Hawk.
> > http://www.voyageronline.com.au/books/extract.cfm?ISBN=0002246813
> > It is the first passage, so a decent intro. I apologise if this has 
> > already
> > been pasted to the list. I got the link from 'ashen shugar' on the
> > hallofworlds forum.
> > CIAO,
> >
> 
> That's almost half of chapter 1, so they posted more than I thought they 
> would.
> 
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
> 
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
> stupidity.



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From: "M Chaloner" <markchaloner@btinternet.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: talon extract, voyager
Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 19:23:35 +0100
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*** EOOH ***
From: "M Chaloner" <markchaloner@btinternet.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: talon extract, voyager
Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 19:23:35 +0100
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

>> Hi, I thought a few of you might want to see a little extract from
>> Talon of
>> the Silver Hawk.
>> http://www.voyageronline.com.au/books/extract.cfm?ISBN=0002246813
>> It is the first passage, so a decent intro. I apologise if this has 
>> already
>> been pasted to the list. I got the link from 'ashen shugar' on the
>> hallofworlds forum.
>> CIAO,
>
>That's almost half of chapter 1, so they posted more than I thought they
>would.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>

It actually reads like the prologue rather than the first chapter.

Mark ;-)



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From: "Rob Kolech" <feistfan@rogers.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: talon extract, voyager
Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 14:47:35 -0400
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Rob Kolech" <feistfan@rogers.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: talon extract, voyager
Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 14:47:35 -0400
X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at fep03-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com from [24.102.215.75] using ID <feistfan@rogers.com> at Sun, 21 Jul 2002 14:47:35 -0400
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August 19 on Amazon.co.uk.  But sometime in the spring for North America.
Thank god for the internet, I naver have to wait for a book again.

Rob K.

-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Western Rhythm
>Sent: July 21, 2002 1:52 PM
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: Re: talon extract, voyager
>
>
>Its excellently written, can't wait for the book now :)
>When's the formal release date again?
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Raymond Feist" <raymond@bittersea.com>
>To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
>Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 12:27 AM
>Subject: Re: talon extract, voyager
>
>
>>
>> On Sunday, July 21, 2002, at 02:32 AM, A Gnome wrote:
>>
>> > Hi, I thought a few of you might want to see a little extract from
>> > Talon of
>> > the Silver Hawk.
>> > http://www.voyageronline.com.au/books/extract.cfm?ISBN=0002246813
>> > It is the first passage, so a decent intro. I apologise if this has
>> > already
>> > been pasted to the list. I got the link from 'ashen shugar' on the
>> > hallofworlds forum.
>> > CIAO,
>> >
>>
>> That's almost half of chapter 1, so they posted more than I thought they
>> would.
>>
>> Best, R.E.F.
>> ----
>>
>> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
>> stupidity.
>



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From: "Rhyaeth" <vaeyn@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re: Talon extract, voyager.
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 16:26:29 +1000
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From: "Rhyaeth" <vaeyn@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re: Talon extract, voyager.
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 16:26:29 +1000
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That little piece from the book isn't enough! Then again, looking at
it from another angle it may be way too much. It serves to whet the
need to read the book all the more, keeping in mind the painful wait
till release. Counting down the days to release, starting today...
there's only another two to three months for Aus, according to
voyager.com.au. -SIGH- An eternity.

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From: Chris Vance <pikachu_chris@yahoo.com.sg>
Subject: Re: talon extract, voyager
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 22:53:29 -0700 (PDT)
From: Chris Vance <pikachu_chris@yahoo.com.sg>
Subject: Re: talon extract, voyager
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Don't you have the rights to control what is
published?
--- Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com> wrote:
> 
> On Sunday, July 21, 2002, at 02:32 AM, A Gnome
> wrote:
> 
> > Hi, I thought a few of you might want to see a
> little extract from 
> > Talon of
> > the Silver Hawk.
> >
> http://www.voyageronline.com.au/books/extract.cfm?ISBN=0002246813
> > It is the first passage, so a decent intro. I
> apologise if this has 
> > already
> > been pasted to the list. I got the link from
> 'ashen shugar' on the
> > hallofworlds forum.
> > CIAO,
> >
> 
> That's almost half of chapter 1, so they posted more
> than I thought they 
> would.
> 
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
> 
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be
> explained away by 
> stupidity.
> 


=====
The Brainless

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better
http://health.yahoo.com



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From: "James Holden" <james@globalvision.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Talon 
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 09:48:39 +0100
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From: "James Holden" <james@globalvision.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Talon 
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 09:48:39 +0100
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Hi,

I've looked through what I can of the list since I've joined but I
couldn't find a message which details exactly where Talon fits with the
other books and timeline.

Anyone help?

Jim



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Subject: Faerie Tale - 1st Ed, UK
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Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 11:31:05 +0200 (CEST)
From: trym asserson <teeba@start.no>
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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Faerie Tale - 1st Ed, UK
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 11:31:05 +0200 (CEST)
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Hi,

I'm just a bit curious how much the first UK edition is worth in hardback? It's
got a mint dust jacket, its pages have gone a bit yellow, but otherwise no
creases, folds or rifts whatsoever..

Just quite excited since I'd not read it yet and found it this weekend stashed
away in a s/h bookshop for the ridiculous price of £2. :)

As for the excerpt of Talon; haven't read it, won't read it, as I feel that
reading small excerpts, not as part of the whole book in its entirity, doesn't
appeal to me because you get the story broken up and can't read on... I'd much
rather read it once its published in its full version when I decide when to put
it down instead of someone else! :) But I'm sure its magnificent!

All the best!

Trym

------------------------------------------------------------
Få din egen @start.no-adresse gratis på http://www.start.no/



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From: "Cameron Duncan" <cduncan@atinera.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Faerie Tale - 1st Ed, UK
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 20:30:11 +1000
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From: "Cameron Duncan" <cduncan@atinera.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Faerie Tale - 1st Ed, UK
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 20:30:11 +1000
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> Hi,
>
> I'm just a bit curious how much the first UK edition is worth in
> hardback? It's
> got a mint dust jacket, its pages have gone a bit yellow, but otherwise no
> creases, folds or rifts whatsoever..
>
> Just quite excited since I'd not read it yet and found it this
> weekend stashed
> away in a s/h bookshop for the ridiculous price of £2. :)
>

Sounds like a good price.  Even in Australian prices, that's a bargain,
and from my discussions with John, we usually get 2nd hand books cheaper
than in the UK.

> As for the excerpt of Talon; haven't read it, won't read it, as I
> feel that
> reading small excerpts, not as part of the whole book in its
> entirity, doesn't
> appeal to me because you get the story broken up and can't read
> on... I'd much
> rather read it once its published in its full version when I
> decide when to put
> it down instead of someone else! :) But I'm sure its magnificent!
>
> All the best!
>
> Trym
>
Just finished it.  It is a true tease!  :)
I really can't wait for the book now - It's going to be a "ripping yarn"
if the first half of chapter one is anything to go by...

Cameron



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Subject: Re: Faerie Tale - 1st Ed, UK
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 20:30:37 +1000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Deon O'Brien" <randmtask@optushome.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Faerie Tale - 1st Ed, UK
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 20:30:37 +1000
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----- Original Message -----
From: "trym asserson" <teeba@start.no>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 7:31 PM
Subject: Faerie Tale - 1st Ed, UK


> Hi,
>
> I'm just a bit curious how much the first UK edition is worth in hardback? It's
> got a mint dust jacket, its pages have gone a bit yellow, but otherwise no
> creases, folds or rifts whatsoever..
>
> Just quite excited since I'd not read it yet and found it this weekend stashed
> away in a s/h bookshop for the ridiculous price of £2. :)
>
> As for the excerpt of Talon; haven't read it, won't read it, as I feel that
> reading small excerpts, not as part of the whole book in its entirity, doesn't
> appeal to me because you get the story broken up and can't read on... I'd much
> rather read it once its published in its full version when I decide when to put
> it down instead of someone else! :) But I'm sure its magnificent!

2 pounds is an excellent price, it can be relatively difficult to find :)
But they might reach up to 15 - 25 pds

Deon O'Brien
--
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not
sure about the former." - Albert Einstein (1879-1955)



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Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 03:37:49 -0700
Subject: Re: talon extract, voyager
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 03:37:49 -0700
Subject: Re: talon extract, voyager
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On Sunday, July 21, 2002, at 10:53 PM, Chris Vance wrote:

> Don't you have the rights to control what is
> published?
>

Up to a point.  This falls within their "promotion" of the work, and is 
fine by me.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 03:38:20 -0700
Subject: Re: Talon 
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 03:38:20 -0700
Subject: Re: Talon 
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On Monday, July 22, 2002, at 01:48 AM, James Holden wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I've looked through what I can of the list since I've joined but I
> couldn't find a message which details exactly where Talon fits with the
> other books and timeline.
>
> Anyone help?
>
> Jim
>
>
>
>
Thirty odd years past Shards.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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From: "James Barker" <heechee@softhome.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
References: <30.2a1399b4.2a6b8e24@aol.com>
Subject: Re: OT: Damn Kiwis 
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 22:41:21 +1000
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*** EOOH ***
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: "James Barker" <heechee@softhome.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: OT: Damn Kiwis 
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 22:41:21 +1000
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

>
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: JEEPMONSTER69@aol.com 
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu 
>Sent: Sunday, July 21, 2002 2:10 PM
>Subject: Re: OT: Damn Kiwis 
>
>
>In a message dated 7/20/2002 5:56:44 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
>pikachu_chris@yahoo.com.sg writes: 
>
>
>
>>Boys.... Stop all this bickering about who's better 
>>than whom now. Let's put it this way.... We're all 
>>better off than Osama now.... Because everybody 
>>everywhere want's to kick his scrawny terrorist butt. 
>>
>>But just for the record NZlanders should stop wearing 
>>woolly underwears.... It's indecent what they think of 
>>for self gratification :)
>
>
>I don't know about everyone, pal- have you heard the French theory
>about 9/11? They seem to think that the WTC was taken down by planes
>flown by Bush's brainwashed tools, and that the Pentagon was hit by a
>missle.  Kinda makes me regret what we did in 1918 and 1944....

OK, I don't want to develop this into a thread, but can we please keep
this list apolitical? As it happens, I have severe issues with
American foreign policy in general, and this "war on terror" (a good
contender for self-contradictory misnomer of the century, right behind
the "war to end all wars") in particular. I _DON'T_ feel any
particular need to kick Osama's "scrawny terrorist butt," and I resent
the apparent American assumption that because their redneck government
has decided to bomb the living daylights out of a third world nation
under the pretense of misguided revenge (seriously, how many of the
thousands of Afghani civilians killed in "collateral damage" planned
to bomb New York? And how many times has the Afghani civilian death
toll exceeded that of the September 11th attacks?) the rest of the
international community should basically either agree blindly or risk
being labelled as terrorists, or (as Matt demonstrated) be
jingoistically treated as idiots.

Like I said, I don't want this to develop into a thread, I'm just
saying that I'd like to keep this list apolitical. If anyone wants to
*cough* discuss my views, it's <heechee@softhome.net>. Oh yeah, Chris:
if you think that's bad, consider ugg boots. :)

Cheers,
James

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Subject: Once...
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 22:45:29 +1000
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Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: "James Barker" <heechee@softhome.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Once...
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 22:45:29 +1000
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I've just finished reading the novel "Once..." by James Herbert, and I
noticed quite a few similarities (mainly in terms of subject matter) to
Faerie Tale... I was wondering if anyone else had read it and felt the same?

If you haven't read it, then for the love of all that's good and holy, don't
go out and buy it... I wasted eighteen of my dollars, and I want them back!
:)

Cheers,
James



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Quoting James Barker <heechee@softhome.net>:
> OK, I don't want to develop this into a thread, but can we please keep
> this list apolitical?

Hear hear!

> As it happens, I have severe issues with American
> foreign policy in general...

<snip>
...which is a view shared by more, and may not by others, but then rather than
lunge into my own take on the topic, I suggest that this thread really ends
_here_ before a full-scale debate blows up.


How was Vegas, Ray? :) That city strikes me as a great destination someday for
one of my future travels, just got to see the lights.


All the best, (BUT I'd like to discuss Fantasy & Literature)

Trym

------------------------------------------------------------
Få din egen @start.no-adresse gratis på http://www.start.no/



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From: Joel Rosenberg <joelr@ellegon.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: OT: Damn Kiwis
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 09:38:57 -0500
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*** EOOH ***
From: Joel Rosenberg <joelr@ellegon.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: OT: Damn Kiwis
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 09:38:57 -0500
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On Monday 22 July 2002 7:41 am, James Barker wrote:
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: JEEPMONSTER69@aol.com
>   To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>   Sent: Sunday, July 21, 2002 2:10 PM
>   Subject: Re: OT: Damn Kiwis
>
>
>   In a message dated 7/20/2002 5:56:44 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> pikachu_chris@yahoo.com.sg writes:
>
>
>
>     Boys.... Stop all this bickering about who's better
>     than whom now. Let's put it this way.... We're all
>     better off than Osama now.... Because everybody
>     everywhere want's to kick his scrawny terrorist butt.
>
>     But just for the record NZlanders should stop wearing
>     woolly underwears.... It's indecent what they think of
>     for self gratification :)
>
>
>   I don't know about everyone, pal- have you heard the French theory about
> 9/11? They seem to think that the WTC was taken down by planes flown by
> Bush's brainwashed tools, and that the Pentagon was hit by a missle.  Kinda
> makes me regret what we did in 1918 and 1944....
>
> OK, I don't want to develop this into a thread, but can we please keep this
> list apolitical? 

Generally speaking, it seems to me that a plea to keep a list apolitical is 
likely to work best when the plea does not include political opinions.

YMMV.



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From: "Paul" <supertronz81@hotmail.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: ATTN: Mr. Feist !
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 10:57:39 -0700
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From: "Paul" <supertronz81@hotmail.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: ATTN: Mr. Feist !
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 10:57:39 -0700
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Mr. Feist,
    
    Hi my name is Paul and I'm 21 years old and currently in
college. I've been reading your books since my Sophmore year in High
School. I decided to check out your books after playing the computer
game Betrayal at Krondor. So I headed to the store and picked up a
copy of Magician Apprentice. I was a little unsure buying it as I
didnt have much luck finding a good fictional book in the past that
could keep my interest . To my suprise it was one of the best reads I
have ever had and it got me into reading for fun in my spare time. I'd
just like to thank you for writing such great books as I truly enjoy
them. Right now I am rereading Magician Master and let me say it is
even better the second time around !


PS

Favorite Character - Nakor. 
Favorite Scene - Lets just say it involves Nakor, pepper and a bag of apples :)

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Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 15:43:37 -0400
Subject: Re: ATTN: Mr. Feist !
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 15:43:37 -0400
Subject: Re: ATTN: Mr. Feist !
From: Bob Montgomery <bmontgomery@mrpllc.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

It's so nice to read things like this, where people are still 
discovering and enjoying these books. Just got my copy of Murder at 
Lamut, and I can't wait to dig in... good on ya, Paul, and keep reading!




On Monday, July 22, 2002, at 01:57  PM, Paul wrote:

> Mr. Feist,
>    
>     Hi my name is Paul and I'm 21 years old and currently in college. 
> I've been reading your books since my Sophmore year in High School. I 
> decided to check out your books after playing the computer game 
> Betrayal at Krondor. So I headed to the store and picked up a copy of 
> Magician Apprentice. I was a little unsure buying it as I didnt have 
> much luck finding a good fictional book in the past that could keep my 
> interest . To my suprise it was one of the best reads I have ever had 
> and it got me into reading for fun in my spare time. I'd just like to 
> thank you for writing such great books as I truly enjoy them. Right now 
> I am rereading Magician Master and let me say it is even better the 
> second time around !
>  
>  
> PS
>  
> Favorite Character - Nakor.
> Favorite Scene - Lets just say it involves Nakor, pepper and a bag of 
> apples :)
>

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Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 17:02:25 EDT
Subject: 20th Anniversay 
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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From: Gkhd11a@aol.com
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 17:02:25 EDT
Subject: 20th Anniversay 
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Maybe I missed something, but is it coming out on the 19th of August?



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From: "Flynn Boyle" <cannibalistic_hen@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Rhuagh
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 23:09:21 +0000
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From: "Flynn Boyle" <cannibalistic_hen@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Rhuagh
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I first read Magician seven or eight years ago and I still don't know how to 
pronounce Rhuagh's name, or is it Rhaugh? Can some one give me a clue. 
Flynn.



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From: "Flynn Boyle" <cannibalistic_hen@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Royal Observatory
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 23:38:21 +0000
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Hi, I've seen the "Rillanon Royal Observatory" date and time on the Hall of 
Worlds site. How does this relate to... well anything? And what is Staphron? 
Can some one explain this to me as well. Thanks, Flynn.



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Subject: Re: Rhuagh
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Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 17:29:15 -0700
Subject: Re: Rhuagh
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On Monday, July 22, 2002, at 04:09 PM, Flynn Boyle wrote:

> I first read Magician seven or eight years ago and I still don't know 
> how to pronounce Rhuagh's name, or is it Rhaugh? Can some one give me a 
> clue. Flynn.
>

Rh is like rhythm, uagh is like og, so it is "rhymes with frog."

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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From: "Ben Nielson" <ben@hallofworlds.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Ben Nielson" <ben@hallofworlds.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 23:22:06 -0600
Subject: Re: Royal Observatory
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The script that displays the time and date on my site is courtesy of 
rip (www.ferkel.co.uk) which I neglected to note on the new design 
(which will be fixed asap *g*)

I'm guessing the bit about the Royal Observatory is just something 
rip added to give a little flavor to the script.  But he'll probably 
respond for himself when he gets around to it.

And thanks again for that wonderful little script, rip!

On 22 Jul 2002, at 23:38, Flynn Boyle wrote:

> Hi, I've seen the "Rillanon Royal Observatory" date and time on the Hall of 
> Worlds site. How does this relate to... well anything? And what is Staphron? 
> Can some one explain this to me as well. Thanks, Flynn.
> 
> 
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com
> 
> 



-----
Ben Nielson
The Hall of Worlds - http://feist.hallofworlds.net
"If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, riddle them with arrows."



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From: "Michelle Thomson" <chell_40@hotmail.com>
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From: "Michelle Thomson" <chell_40@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Royal Observatory
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 19:28:39 +1200
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After reading this I decided to check out your site to see what the time 
was.  Very interesting.

I'd like to say though that your poll is missing a more general "all of the 
above" option.  I had no idea which to choose as I like some of those 
characters equally for different reasons.  My least favourite of them is 
probably Liam, Borric and Macros.  More because they are more minor 
characters overall.

>The script that displays the time and date on my site is courtesy of
>rip (www.ferkel.co.uk) which I neglected to note on the new design
>(which will be fixed asap *g*)
>
>I'm guessing the bit about the Royal Observatory is just something
>rip added to give a little flavor to the script.  But he'll probably
>respond for himself when he gets around to it.
>
>And thanks again for that wonderful little script, rip!
>
>On 22 Jul 2002, at 23:38, Flynn Boyle wrote:
>
> > Hi, I've seen the "Rillanon Royal Observatory" date and time on the Hall 
>of
> > Worlds site. How does this relate to... well anything? And what is 
>Staphron?
> > Can some one explain this to me as well. Thanks, Flynn.
>
>>-----
>Ben Nielson
>The Hall of Worlds - http://feist.hallofworlds.net
>"If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, riddle them with arrows."


Michelle Thomson

*************************
Never argue with an idiot, first they bring you down to their level, then 
they beat you with experience.


_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com



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From: "Greg Bulloch" <somedude1_2000@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re: Talon
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Subject: Re: Talon
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>From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: Re: Talon Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 03:38:20 -0700
>
>
>On Monday, July 22, 2002, at 01:48 AM, James Holden wrote:
>
>>Hi,
>>
>>I've looked through what I can of the list since I've joined but I
>>couldn't find a message which details exactly where Talon fits with the
>>other books and timeline.
>>
>>Anyone help?
>>
>>Jim
>>
>>
>>
>>
>Thirty odd years past Shards.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
>stupidity.


does this mean more Nakor????



_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com



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From: "Cameron Duncan" <cduncan@atinera.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: OT - Software question
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 17:50:07 +1000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Cameron Duncan" <cduncan@atinera.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: OT - Software question
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 17:50:07 +1000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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To everyone that replied to offer help - Thanks!!!
I am currently investigating several options to offer management.
Again, thanks :)

Cameron

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Cameron Duncan
> Sent: Friday, July 19, 2002 7:41 AM
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Subject: OT - Software question
> 
> 
> Hi all, sorry for the OT topic, but I'm stuck on something for 
> work and was
> hoping
> someone on the list could help -
> When errors occur on our servers, I need the generated email alerts to be
> sent to an oncall
> mobile phone. Does anyone know of a software package that enables 
> emails to
> be sent to a
> mobile phone via SMS?
> If you can help, please reply off list to keep the OT traffic to 
> a minimum.
> 
> cheers,
> 
> Cameron
> 
> 



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Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 09:33:25 +0100
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At 06:22 23/07/2002, Ben Nielson spake thusly:
>'cause On 22 Jul 2002, at 23:38, Flynn Boyle wrote:
>
>> Hi, I've seen the "Rillanon Royal Observatory" date and time on the Hall of 
>> Worlds site. How does this relate to... well anything? And what is Staphron? 
>> Can some one explain this to me as well. Thanks, Flynn.
>
>The script that displays the time and date on my site is courtesy of 
>rip (www.ferkel.co.uk) which I neglected to note on the new design 
>(which will be fixed asap *g*)

Thanks ;-> I'm not hung up on the attribution, but it is
good to be recognized.

>I'm guessing the bit about the Royal Observatory is just something 
>rip added to give a little flavor to the script.  But he'll probably 
>respond for himself when he gets around to it.

Ok.  When the subject of the Kingdom of Isles calender came
up (um. Not sure:  Same one used all over Midkemia? Or just
Triagia?), a list was posted of the months, and the number
of days that each one had, and I thought it would be cool
to have a script that generated "todays date" in local time.
That list was posted either by Stephen Abrams or Ray, but
I'd have to look it up...in fact I will.  Half a mo...ok,
scripts running.  Data will pop up in a moment.  Ok. The
original question (including the Months) was posted by a 
Holger Wysk, on 23 Aug 1997.

And Ray replied:
>That is the "real" Midkemian calendar.
>
>I ignored it for the sake of not causing "reality breaks," with the reader,
>explaining why at 25 years old Pug's a wee boy getting ready for the
>Choosing and why at 34 Arutha's considered too  young to command at Cyrdee.
>Leaving them 14 and 19 respectively makes it easier for the reader.

and also:
>It's all pretty cosmetic, anyway, as both the actual RPG and the books tend
>to ignore the calendar except in certain dramatic situations.

And Stephen said:
>The 200 day calendar was intentional to 'speedup' game years so that
>long-term events would happen in a reasonable period.  We do keep
>an active calendar of Midkemian Date vs. Earth Date (computer program).
>The origins of the months are related to the movement of the moons at
>the time the calendar was established (which isn't the same as now).

My calender script can be set to mimic 1 earth year == 1 midk. year,
or 1 earth second == 1 midk. second.  I never bothered with one
earth day == 1 midk day.

Since a Midkemia year is 200 days long, either one leads to 
serious skew.  In order to keep the ages of characters 
consistent with what we as earthlings use, I believe Ben's 
using the 1 year == 1 year, but I haven't checked.  Thus, 
a "fourteen year old" on Earth is 14 on Midkemia, and not 
14 * 365 / 200, or over 25!

When I did the script, I asked Mr. Abrams (www.midkemia.com) 
for permission and he gave it.  I pulled "Royal Observatory at
Rillanon" out of a hat, and when asking permission asked spe-
cifically if there /existed/ such a beast.  Mr. Abrams said 
yes, there was!  The other thing I fabricated out of whole 
cloth was the actual year in question.  Because Isles uses 
the phrasing "Xth year in the reign of Y, Zth" (14th year 
in the reign of Rodric, forth of that name), then any "base 
year" is as good as any other.  Unless and until someone 
gives me the actual Gregorian-type year of Pug's birth, 
for example, I can not figure out what year it really is.  

I suppose one thing to do would be to subtract 13 and a half 
years (his age at the start of Magician) from 1982 (the original
date of publication of Magician), making his DOB around 1968.  
That would make his parents a couple of hippies from San 
Francisco (Crydee is on the west coast of the continent)...
and his "true name" would then be something like Moon Freedom.  
Anyway, I digress.  Where was I going with this?  So I could
use 1968 as the base year.

In reality, it would be better to take the year of the foundation
of the Kingdom of Isles, and then add up all the years that had
passed by looking at all the kings and how long they lasted.  I
mean served.  

But I don't have that list, if any such exists.

>And thanks again for that wonderful little script, rip!

Ta!  It were the work of a moment.  Or is the work of an
endless string of moments, actually, since it is a calendar.

For the record:

>  Banapis (1)
> Kimia (18)
> Rodec (15)
> Staphron (10)
> Natinica (12)
> Wochem (45)
>  Mid-Winter (1)
> Nuna (11)
> Agaeis (37)
> Yemiev (11)
> Dzanin (39)
> 
> Banapis (Midsummer's Day) is a day wich belongs to neither 
> the old nor the new year. Mid-Winter day belongs to no month.

But, for the purposes of my script, they are treated as "months"
unto themselves.  

HTH,
rip



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Do you have any idea when you'll write the rest of the Legacy series. If
this has already been answered, sorry.

Thanks, Paul

>Legacy is Betrayal, Assassins, Tear of the Gods, The Crawler, The Dark 
>Mage (the last two are not written nor even contracted for).  Conclave 
>is Talon of the Silver Hawk (just finished and published in the UK in 
>Sep, in the US in May) King of Foxes, and three more books to be titled 
>later (or they will be called the 3rd Riftwar Saga--we don't know yet).
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
>stupidity.
>

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From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
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Subject: Re: Talon
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Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 21:13:22 +1000 (GMT+1000)
From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Talon
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Jsut noticed on hallofworlds.net a misplaced quote

"Some love comes like a wind off the sea, while others grow slowly from
the seeds of friendship and kindness."
- Father Tully "

...Tully and Kulgan's friendship just gained a disturbing aspect...

[I think the original quote should be attributed to Carline or Roland]

> >From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
> >Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> >To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> >Subject: Re: Talon Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 03:38:20 -0700
> >
> >
> >On Monday, July 22, 2002, at 01:48 AM, James Holden wrote:
> >
> >>Hi,
> >>
> >>I've looked through what I can of the list since I've joined but I
> >>couldn't find a message which details exactly where Talon fits with the
> >>other books and timeline.
> >>
> >>Anyone help?
> >>
> >>Jim
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >Thirty odd years past Shards.
> >
> >Best, R.E.F.
> >----
> >
> >Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
> >stupidity.
>
>
> does this mean more Nakor????
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com
>
>

Thanks
Darragh
================================================
msn: iamtheporkfireman@hotmail.com

"Believe or die - thank you O lord for all those
 options" - Bill Hicks.
================================================



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 >
References: <F293KXMu99gDDvBDMR100019b22@hotmail.com>
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Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 13:19:12 +0200
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From: Kenneth Jones <killkenny@thos.co.za>
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Nope, I think that was Father Tully talking to Pug IIRC.

At 09:13 PM 7/23/02 +1000, you wrote:

>Jsut noticed on hallofworlds.net a misplaced quote
>
>"Some love comes like a wind off the sea, while others grow slowly from
>the seeds of friendship and kindness."
>- Father Tully "
>
>...Tully and Kulgan's friendship just gained a disturbing aspect...
>
>[I think the original quote should be attributed to Carline or Roland]
>
> > >From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
> > >Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > >To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > >Subject: Re: Talon Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 03:38:20 -0700
> > >
> > >
> > >On Monday, July 22, 2002, at 01:48 AM, James Holden wrote:
> > >
> > >>Hi,
> > >>
> > >>I've looked through what I can of the list since I've joined but I
> > >>couldn't find a message which details exactly where Talon fits with the
> > >>other books and timeline.
> > >>
> > >>Anyone help?
> > >>
> > >>Jim
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >Thirty odd years past Shards.
> > >
> > >Best, R.E.F.
> > >----
> > >
> > >Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
> > >stupidity.
> >
> >
> > does this mean more Nakor????
> >
> >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com
> >
> >
>
>Thanks
>Darragh
>================================================
>msn: iamtheporkfireman@hotmail.com
>
>"Believe or die - thank you O lord for all those
>  options" - Bill Hicks.
>================================================



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Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 05:48:23 -0700
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From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
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BTW,

I should mention I've got a new story, "One to Go," in the new Thieve's 
World: Turning Point collection, edited by Lynn Abbey.  Should be out 
later this year.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 23:04:46 +1000
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

To Ray & Joel,

Just finished MIL and wanted to thank you both for a great read!
The style sometimes reminded me of those old 'Private Eye' movies - 
especially in the first couple of chapters.
I thought I'd guessed who dunnit, but didn't know for sure until about
3 pages from the end.

Can't wait for Talon now :)

Cameron Duncan
Systems Operator
Atinera
Level 2, 284 Elizabeth Street
Brisbane QLD 4000
Australia
Ph:  +61 (0)7 3406 1907
Fax: +61 (0)7 3236 2494
www.atinera.com 



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From: "Chris Smith" <cjs94@zepler.org.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On 23 Jul 2002 at 13:19, Kenneth Jones wrote:

> Nope, I think that was Father Tully talking to Pug IIRC.
> 
> At 09:13 PM 7/23/02 +1000, you wrote:
> 
> >Jsut noticed on hallofworlds.net a misplaced quote
> >
> >"Some love comes like a wind off the sea, while others grow slowly from
> >the seeds of friendship and kindness."
> >- Father Tully "

Actually, I thought it was Roland talking to Carline on the tower, quoting 
something Father Tully had said to him...

Chris 
-- 
Chris Smith <cjs94@zepler.org.uk>



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 07:17:38 -0700
Subject: Re: Talon
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Tuesday, July 23, 2002, at 06:16 AM, Chris Smith wrote:

> On 23 Jul 2002 at 13:19, Kenneth Jones wrote:
>
>> Nope, I think that was Father Tully talking to Pug IIRC.
>>
>> At 09:13 PM 7/23/02 +1000, you wrote:
>>
>>> Jsut noticed on hallofworlds.net a misplaced quote
>>>
>>> "Some love comes like a wind off the sea, while others grow slowly 
>>> from
>>> the seeds of friendship and kindness."
>>> - Father Tully "
>
> Actually, I thought it was Roland talking to Carline on the tower, 
> quoting
> something Father Tully had said to him...
>
> Chris
> --
> Chris Smith <cjs94@zepler.org.uk>
>
>
>
>
Show the contestant the prize, John!

You're right!

Best, R.E.F>
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 16:28:55 +0200
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: Kenneth Jones <killkenny@thos.co.za>
Subject: Re: Talon
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

It has been too long... I must be getting old {:-)

At 07:17 AM 7/23/02 -0700, you wrote:

>On Tuesday, July 23, 2002, at 06:16 AM, Chris Smith wrote:
>
>>On 23 Jul 2002 at 13:19, Kenneth Jones wrote:
>>
>>>Nope, I think that was Father Tully talking to Pug IIRC.
>>>
>>>At 09:13 PM 7/23/02 +1000, you wrote:
>>>
>>>>Jsut noticed on hallofworlds.net a misplaced quote
>>>>
>>>>"Some love comes like a wind off the sea, while others grow slowly from
>>>>the seeds of friendship and kindness."
>>>>- Father Tully "
>>
>>Actually, I thought it was Roland talking to Carline on the tower, quoting
>>something Father Tully had said to him...
>>
>>Chris
>>--
>>Chris Smith <cjs94@zepler.org.uk>
>>
>>
>>
>Show the contestant the prize, John!
>
>You're right!
>
>Best, R.E.F>
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
>stupidity.



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Subject: RE: Talon
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From: "James Holden" <james@globalvision.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Talon
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 16:01:29 +0100
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>> It has been too long... I must be getting old 

When did Tully say this little gem then? ;0) lol.


-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Kenneth Jones
>Sent: 23 July 2002 15:29
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: Re: Talon
>
>
>It has been too long... I must be getting old {:-)
>
>At 07:17 AM 7/23/02 -0700, you wrote:
>
>>On Tuesday, July 23, 2002, at 06:16 AM, Chris Smith wrote:
>>
>>>On 23 Jul 2002 at 13:19, Kenneth Jones wrote:
>>>
>>>>Nope, I think that was Father Tully talking to Pug IIRC.
>>>>
>>>>At 09:13 PM 7/23/02 +1000, you wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Jsut noticed on hallofworlds.net a misplaced quote
>>>>>
>>>>>"Some love comes like a wind off the sea, while others grow slowly 
>>>>>from the seeds of friendship and kindness."
>>>>>- Father Tully "
>>>
>>>Actually, I thought it was Roland talking to Carline on the tower, 
>>>quoting something Father Tully had said to him...
>>>
>>>Chris
>>>--
>>>Chris Smith <cjs94@zepler.org.uk>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>Show the contestant the prize, John!
>>
>>You're right!
>>
>>Best, R.E.F>
>>----
>>
>>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
>>stupidity.
>


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*** EOOH ***
From: "Chris Smith" <cjs94@zepler.org.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 16:07:51 +0100
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On 23 Jul 2002 at 7:17, Raymond Feist wrote:
> 
> On Tuesday, July 23, 2002, at 06:16 AM, Chris Smith wrote:
> >
> > Actually, I thought it was Roland talking to Carline on the tower, 
> > quoting
> > something Father Tully had said to him...
> >
> >
> Show the contestant the prize, John!
> 
> You're right!

Well, hurrah! I knew my luck had to change sometime, I just hope it
lasts until the Saturday night lottery draw... :-)

Chris
-- 
Chris Smith <cjs94@zepler.org.uk>



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On Tue, 23 July 2002, Raymond Feist wrote

> 
> BTW,
> 
> I should mention I've got a new story, "One to Go," in the new Thieve's 
> World: Turning Point collection, edited by Lynn Abbey.  Should be out 
> later this year.
> 
> Best, R.E.F.

  
 Cool! I haven't read one of those collections in ages.
I did read the first two books...but haven't even
looked for them in years.  
 
 How many are there now?
  
Anita (and for the guy that sent the e-mail, yes it's
my real name)
 
 
 'Every happy ending needs to have a start.'
  

 '
 
  

___________________________________________________________________
Join the Space Program: Get FREE E-mail at http://www.space.com.



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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Talon
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*** EOOH ***
From: mdmaguire@att.net
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Talon
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 16:30:03 +0000
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But, it was Caroline that Father Tully was talking to.  
As to when it happened, it was shortly (?) after they 
had heard of Pug's (suposed) death.  I believe the 
phrase used by Roland in the conversation was "...these 
last few months..."  At the end of the conversation, 
they embrace and the "camera" looks over their sholder 
to a ship comming into Crydee Harbor in the storm.

That was all from memory, but feel free to correct me 
if I'm wrong...

--Matt Maguire
> 
> On Tuesday, July 23, 2002, at 06:16 AM, Chris Smith wrote:
> 
> > On 23 Jul 2002 at 13:19, Kenneth Jones wrote:
> >
> >> Nope, I think that was Father Tully talking to Pug IIRC.
> >>
> >> At 09:13 PM 7/23/02 +1000, you wrote:
> >>
> >>> Jsut noticed on hallofworlds.net a misplaced quote
> >>>
> >>> "Some love comes like a wind off the sea, while others grow slowly 
> >>> from
> >>> the seeds of friendship and kindness."
> >>> - Father Tully "
> >
> > Actually, I thought it was Roland talking to Carline on the tower, 
> > quoting
> > something Father Tully had said to him...
> >
> > Chris
> > --
> > Chris Smith <cjs94@zepler.org.uk>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> Show the contestant the prize, John!
> 
> You're right!
> 
> Best, R.E.F>
> ----
> 
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
> stupidity.
> 



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Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com> writes
>  Unless and until someone
>gives me the actual Gregorian-type year of Pug's birth,
>for example, I can not figure out what year it really is.

Hey rip you do have a frame of reference I think.. The big bang which 
pug witnessed. Assuming it was the same big bang of ours you could count 
forward from that day and compare.

Oh, small problem you don't know when our big bang was ? <G>
-- 
John

john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.

Raymond E Feist Ring
http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm



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*** EOOH ***
From: "Ben Nielson" <ben@hallofworlds.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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So, any hints as to what the story's going to be about?

Or at least, will it be Midkemia-related? Or do we just have to wait 
and see?

On 23 Jul 2002, at 5:48, Raymond Feist wrote:

> BTW,
> 
> I should mention I've got a new story, "One to Go," in the new Thieve's 
> World: Turning Point collection, edited by Lynn Abbey.  Should be out 
> later this year.
> 
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
> 
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
> stupidity.
> 
> 



-----
Ben Nielson
The Hall of Worlds - http://feist.hallofworlds.net
"If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, riddle them with arrows."



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Subject: Re: Talon
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Ben Nielson" <ben@hallofworlds.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 15:19:14 -0600
Subject: Re: Talon
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Thanks for pointing out the error.  I also went and looked it up, only 
to notice that I also had the quote slightly wrong.  *g*

The conversation takes place at the end of chapter 16 in Magician: 
Apprentice. Roland is talking to Carline (as has been said).  I had 
this as the quote:

"Some love comes like a wind off the sea, while others grow slowly 
from the seeds of friendship and kindness."

But it was actually this:

"Father Tully says that some loves come unbidden like winds from 
the sea, and others grow from the seeds of friendship."

A slight difference.  *g*  Anyways, thanks again for pointing that 
out.  And if anyone wants to, they can submit more quotes to be 
displayed up there.  I'm always looking for more. Before submitting, 
though, check here (http://www.hallofworlds.net/feist/quotes.txt) to 
see the complete list of quotes.

On 23 Jul 2002, at 21:13, Darragh Murray wrote:

> 
> Jsut noticed on hallofworlds.net a misplaced quote
> 
> "Some love comes like a wind off the sea, while others grow slowly from
> the seeds of friendship and kindness."
> - Father Tully "
> 
> ...Tully and Kulgan's friendship just gained a disturbing aspect...
> 
> [I think the original quote should be attributed to Carline or Roland]
> 
> > >From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
> > >Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > >To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > >Subject: Re: Talon Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 03:38:20 -0700
> > >
> > >
> > >On Monday, July 22, 2002, at 01:48 AM, James Holden wrote:
> > >
> > >>Hi,
> > >>
> > >>I've looked through what I can of the list since I've joined but I
> > >>couldn't find a message which details exactly where Talon fits with the
> > >>other books and timeline.
> > >>
> > >>Anyone help?
> > >>
> > >>Jim
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >Thirty odd years past Shards.
> > >
> > >Best, R.E.F.
> > >----
> > >
> > >Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
> > >stupidity.
> >
> >
> > does this mean more Nakor????
> >
> >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com
> >
> >
> 
> Thanks
> Darragh
> ================================================
> msn: iamtheporkfireman@hotmail.com
> 
> "Believe or die - thank you O lord for all those
>  options" - Bill Hicks.
> ================================================
> 
> 



-----
Ben Nielson
The Hall of Worlds - http://feist.hallofworlds.net
"If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, riddle them with arrows."



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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Vale Leo McKern
Cc: Alan.Hargreaves@Sun.COM
From: Alan.Hargreaves@Sun.COM
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 10:40:02 +1000
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For those who weren't aware, Leo McKern (of Rumpole fame) died last night in a 
nursing home in Bath.

I only bring it up here because Ray mentioned that he was the actor he had in 
mind when writing for Kulgan (see the FAQ http://www.psihawk.com/feist/feist-faq.html ).


alan.
--
Alan Hargreaves                 Senior Technical Support Specialist
Phone      : +61 2 9844 5379    
Mobile     : +61 416 207 573    Product Technical Support (APAC)
Fax        : +61 2 9418 2143    Sun Microsystems
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Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 16:58:52 -0700
Subject: Re: New Story
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 16:58:52 -0700
Subject: Re: New Story
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On Tuesday, July 23, 2002, at 02:20 PM, Ben Nielson wrote:

> So, any hints as to what the story's going to be about?

About 22 pages.


>
> Or at least, will it be Midkemia-related? Or do we just have to wait
> and see?
>

It's a Thieves World story, so it can't be Midkemia related.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
From: Jason Mulligan <manwe@internode.on.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 09:31:16 +1000
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On Tue, 23 Jul 2002 08:27:41 -0700 (PDT), dreamfish@space.com wrote:
>On Tue, 23 July 2002, Raymond Feist wrote
>
>>
>> BTW,
>>
>> I should mention I've got a new story, "One to Go,"
>in the new Thieve's
>> World: Turning Point collection, edited by Lynn
>Abbey.  Should be out
>> later this year.
>>
>> Best, R.E.F.
>
>
> Cool! I haven't read one of those collections in ages.
>I did read the first two books...but haven't even
>looked for them in years.
>
> How many are there now?

Lots. The last one I have is book 10. Not that I have all of 'em, but I picked
a handful cheap a few years back.



--
 What if the Hokey Pokey *IS* what it's all about?



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Subject: Re: Vale Leo McKern
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 18:27:58 -0700
Subject: Re: Vale Leo McKern
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On Tuesday, July 23, 2002, at 05:40 PM, Alan.Hargreaves@Sun.COM wrote:

> For those who weren't aware, Leo McKern (of Rumpole fame) died last 
> night in a
> nursing home in Bath.
>
>

Sad news.  As fine a character actor as lived.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Hello Alan,

A great talent who will be sadly missed.

Wednesday, July 24, 2002, 10:40:02 AM, you wrote:

AHSC> For those who weren't aware, Leo McKern (of Rumpole fame) died last night in a 
AHSC> nursing home in Bath.

AHSC> I only bring it up here because Ray mentioned that he was the actor he had in 
AHSC> mind when writing for Kulgan (see the FAQ http://www.psihawk.com/feist/feist-fa
AHSC> q.html ).


AHSC> alan.
AHSC> --
AHSC> Alan Hargreaves                 Senior Technical Support Specialist
AHSC> Phone      : +61 2 9844 5379    
AHSC> Mobile     : +61 416 207 573    Product Technical Support (APAC)
AHSC> Fax        : +61 2 9418 2143    Sun Microsystems
AHSC> Call Centre: 1 800 555 786      828 Pacific Highway, Gordon NSW 2072

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-- 
Best regards,
Paul Duthie                     duthie.paul.j@edumail.vic.gov.au
Network Manager,
Ballarat High School            www.ballaraths.vic.edu.au
Sent Using The Bat! Version 1.60h



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 14:02:18 +1200 (NZST)
From: Richard Stevenson <richard.stevenson@team.xtra.co.nz>
To: feistfans-l@cornell.edu
Subject: OT: Jason Doller?
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Hi all :)

Sorry for the OT post, but does anyone know where Jason Doller (who used
to post to this list regularly a few years back) got to?  I've got email
to pass on to him, but the address I had for him started to bounce a month
or so back :\  Bret?  Anyone???

ObFeistFans: One of my cow-orkers told me today that the local bookstore
has started pushing MiL :)

TIA

Cheers

Richard


-- 
Richard Stevenson
Systems Specialist
Xtra Limited
  Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface.



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Subject: Conclave: The Magicians?
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REF,

We know right now that the Conclave consists of Pug,
Miranda, and Nakor. Perhaps some cameos from Gathis
and another return of Macros as well. Could you
clarify on this and give us some names, and is Owyn
(from Krondor: The Betrayal) going to re-enter the
series? I grew fond of his character.

Also, I know it has no real pertinance, but will we
ever get a glimpse of who Pug's birth parents are? We
know it isn't Macros, but getting a slight insight
would be nice.

I think one of the best aspects of your writing is
that the reader gets to see older characters as they
progress. Seeing older Duke James and Carline as well
as Arutha's final days was an incredible thing for me.
It ties the stories together.

A final question. At any point, do you think you may
team with Janny Wurts or go solo and continue with
stories from Tsuranuanni?

                                Sorry to bother,
                                        Joe

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better
http://health.yahoo.com



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Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 22:35:46 -0500
From: Bret Robideaux <bretr@alliances.org>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020508 Netscape6/6.2.3
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Hey Richard, long time no read!

   Nope, I haven't talked to him or Kat or Matt (or you, for that 
matter) in years. If you find him (or any of them) let me know. I'd love 
to catch up with you guys.

Bret

Richard Stevenson wrote:

> Hi all :)
> 
> Sorry for the OT post, but does anyone know where Jason Doller (who used
> to post to this list regularly a few years back) got to?  I've got email
> to pass on to him, but the address I had for him started to bounce a month
> or so back :\  Bret?  Anyone???
> 
> ObFeistFans: One of my cow-orkers told me today that the local bookstore
> has started pushing MiL :)
> 
> TIA
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Richard
> 
> 
> 



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Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 21:56:14 -0700
Subject: Re: Conclave: The Magicians?
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 21:56:14 -0700
Subject: Re: Conclave: The Magicians?
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On Tuesday, July 23, 2002, at 07:44 PM, Dicken Joseph wrote:

> REF,
>
> We know right now that the Conclave consists of Pug,
> Miranda, and Nakor. Perhaps some cameos from Gathis
> and another return of Macros as well. Could you
> clarify on this and give us some names, and is Owyn
> (from Krondor: The Betrayal) going to re-enter the
> series? I grew fond of his character.

Owyn will never again appear in one of my works.  I have no particular 
dramatic use for him.
As for who else is in the Conclave, read the books.
>
> Also, I know it has no real pertinance, but will we
> ever get a glimpse of who Pug's birth parents are? We
> know it isn't Macros, but getting a slight insight
> would be nice.

No.

>
> I think one of the best aspects of your writing is
> that the reader gets to see older characters as they
> progress. Seeing older Duke James and Carline as well
> as Arutha's final days was an incredible thing for me.
> It ties the stories together.

Glad you approved.  I find deathless characters aplenty in the field and 
really needed to contrast my long lived characters with other, equally 
popular, but short lived characters.

>
> A final question. At any point, do you think you may
> team with Janny Wurts or go solo and continue with
> stories from Tsuranuanni?
>

As I have said repeatedly, I will never do a Tsurani book with Janny.  
She and I have talked about a couple of other things, but we're done 
with the Empire.  If the Legends of the Riftwar series continues, we 
might do one of those, and we've kicked around a couple of notions, but 
her schedule and mine just don't match up well for the foreseeable 
future.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Subject: Re: Talon
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Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 17:57:46 +1000 (GMT+1000)
From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Talon
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> > Nope, I think that was Father Tully talking to Pug IIRC.
> > At 09:13 PM 7/23/02 +1000, you wrote:
> > >Jsut noticed on hallofworlds.net a misplaced quote
> > >"Some love comes like a wind off the sea, while others grow slowly from
> > >the seeds of friendship and kindness."
> > >- Father Tully "
> Actually, I thought it was Roland talking to Carline on the tower, quoting
> something Father Tully had said to him...
> Chris

But technically, the quote should be attributed to Roland, as we don't
know whether he was stating directly Tully's own words. Really, Roland, he
should have done some proper attribution:)

Thanks
Darragh
================================================
msn: iamtheporkfireman@hotmail.com

"Believe or die - thank you O lord for all those
 options" - Bill Hicks.
================================================



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Subject: Carline Quote [was Re: Talon]
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Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 18:12:00 +1000 (GMT+1000)
From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Carline Quote [was Re: Talon]
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After 5 minutes of rereading parts of Magician, this quote appears not
once but TWICE (I use UK paperback Magician APE).

In Chapter 16 "Raid" - Carline says it to Roland. (around p.283) - The
extact quote is "Father Tully says that some loves come unbidden...(as per
previous post)".

The second one (the one I remembered, I didnt even notice that it occured
in chapter 16), is in chapter 18 "siege" around page 331. Where Carline
again states a similiar quote,

 "Some love comes like a wind off the sea,
while otheres grow slowly from the seeds of friendship and kindness.
Someone once told me that" [Carline]
"Father Tully, he was right" [Roland]

deja vu? *g*


> Thanks for pointing out the error.  I also went and looked it up, only
> to notice that I also had the quote slightly wrong.  *g*
>
> The conversation takes place at the end of chapter 16 in Magician:
> Apprentice. Roland is talking to Carline (as has been said).  I had
> this as the quote:
>
> "Some love comes like a wind off the sea, while others grow slowly
> from the seeds of friendship and kindness."
>
> But it was actually this:
>
> "Father Tully says that some loves come unbidden like winds from
> the sea, and others grow from the seeds of friendship."
>
> A slight difference.  *g*  Anyways, thanks again for pointing that
> out.  And if anyone wants to, they can submit more quotes to be
> displayed up there.  I'm always looking for more. Before submitting,
> though, check here (http://www.hallofworlds.net/feist/quotes.txt) to
> see the complete list of quotes.
>
> On 23 Jul 2002, at 21:13, Darragh Murray wrote:
>
> >
> > Jsut noticed on hallofworlds.net a misplaced quote
> >
> > "Some love comes like a wind off the sea, while others grow slowly from
> > the seeds of friendship and kindness."
> > - Father Tully "
> >
> > ...Tully and Kulgan's friendship just gained a disturbing aspect...
> >
> > [I think the original quote should be attributed to Carline or Roland]
> >
> > > >From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
> > > >Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > > >To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > > >Subject: Re: Talon Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 03:38:20 -0700
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >On Monday, July 22, 2002, at 01:48 AM, James Holden wrote:
> > > >
> > > >>Hi,
> > > >>
> > > >>I've looked through what I can of the list since I've joined but I
> > > >>couldn't find a message which details exactly where Talon fits with the
> > > >>other books and timeline.
> > > >>
> > > >>Anyone help?
> > > >>
> > > >>Jim
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >Thirty odd years past Shards.
> > > >
> > > >Best, R.E.F.
> > > >----
> > > >
> > > >Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
> > > >stupidity.
> > >
> > >
> > > does this mean more Nakor????
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _________________________________________________________________
> > > Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Thanks
> > Darragh
> > ================================================
> > msn: iamtheporkfireman@hotmail.com
> >
> > "Believe or die - thank you O lord for all those
> >  options" - Bill Hicks.
> > ================================================
> >
> >
>
>
>
> -----
> Ben Nielson
> The Hall of Worlds - http://feist.hallofworlds.net
> "If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, riddle them with arrows."
>
>

Thanks
Darragh
================================================
msn: iamtheporkfireman@hotmail.com

"Believe or die - thank you O lord for all those
 options" - Bill Hicks.
================================================



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Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 09:29:44 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: Royal Observatory
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

At 18:18 23/07/2002, John spake thusly:
>Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com> writes
>> Unless and until someone
>>gives me the actual Gregorian-type year of Pug's birth,
>>for example, I can not figure out what year it really is.
>
>Hey rip you do have a frame of reference I think.. The big bang which pug witnessed. Assuming it was the same big bang of ours you could count forward from that day and compare.
>
>Oh, small problem you don't know when our big bang was ? <G>

Hm.  Let me check my notes.

rip
-- 
No, I'm not an HC Freelancer.



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Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 23:15:30 +1000
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From: TeckerDaze <teckerdaze@cqnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: Conclave: The Magicians?
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Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 23:15:30 +1000
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: TeckerDaze <teckerdaze@cqnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: Conclave: The Magicians?
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

>>Also, I know it has no real pertinance, but will we
>>ever get a glimpse of who Pug's birth parents are? We
>>know it isn't Macros, but getting a slight insight
>>would be nice.
>
>No.
>

maybe i'm remembering this incorrectly, and i apologise if i am... 
but i thought Pug's father was a soldier and his mother was a serving 
woman at an inn... he didn't stick around and she gave him up to the 
monks at the abbey (of Silban?? yes? no?  eh, my mind is still in 
MSAccess mode, sorry)  or is this another case of "don't believe 
everything you read"?

ah well.

Teck.



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From: "James Holden" <james@globalvision.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Conclave: The Magicians?
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 15:43:38 +0100
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From: "James Holden" <james@globalvision.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Conclave: The Magicians?
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 15:43:38 +0100
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I think that's pretty much right. 

I think pugs parents would be a non-event - they were nothing but the
biological mother and father.  It doesn't seem as though pug inherited
any abilities from them nor did they have influence on his personality
or morals etc.




-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of TeckerDaze
>Sent: 24 July 2002 14:16
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: Re: Conclave: The Magicians?
>
>
>>>Also, I know it has no real pertinance, but will we
>>>ever get a glimpse of who Pug's birth parents are? We
>>>know it isn't Macros, but getting a slight insight
>>>would be nice.
>>
>>No.
>>
>
>maybe i'm remembering this incorrectly, and i apologise if i am... 
>but i thought Pug's father was a soldier and his mother was a serving 
>woman at an inn... he didn't stick around and she gave him up to the 
>monks at the abbey (of Silban?? yes? no?  eh, my mind is still in 
>MSAccess mode, sorry)  or is this another case of "don't believe 
>everything you read"?
>
>ah well.
>
>Teck.
>


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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 00:52:47 +1000
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: TeckerDaze <teckerdaze@cqnet.com.au>
Subject: RE: Conclave: The Magicians?
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

*** spoiler space just in case you haven't read RoaDK or Shards... 
can't remember which ***















I do remember one part where it was said that his natural ability was 
"tweaked" by Macros...  it was conjectured that it was done so that 
Pug would bring the Greater Path back to Midkemia... it was due to 
the said "tweaking" that Pug ended up with the choice presented to 
him by Lims Kragma, wasn't it?


>I think that's pretty much right.
>
>I think pugs parents would be a non-event - they were nothing but the
>biological mother and father.  It doesn't seem as though pug inherited
>any abilities from them nor did they have influence on his personality
>or morals etc.
>
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of TeckerDaze
>Sent: 24 July 2002 14:16
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: Re: Conclave: The Magicians?
>
>
>>>Also, I know it has no real pertinance, but will we
>>>ever get a glimpse of who Pug's birth parents are? We
>>>know it isn't Macros, but getting a slight insight
>>>would be nice.
>>
>>No.
>>
>
>maybe i'm remembering this incorrectly, and i apologise if i am...
>but i thought Pug's father was a soldier and his mother was a serving
>woman at an inn... he didn't stick around and she gave him up to the
>monks at the abbey (of Silban?? yes? no?  eh, my mind is still in
>MSAccess mode, sorry)  or is this another case of "don't believe
>everything you read"?
>
>ah well.
>
>Teck.



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From: "James Holden" <james@globalvision.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Conclave: The Magicians?
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 16:38:04 +0100
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From: "James Holden" <james@globalvision.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Conclave: The Magicians?
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 16:38:04 +0100
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

It was the "meddling" of Macros - Pug naturally had power, Macros was
simply a tool to allow this to manifest itself and in the long run
return the greater path to midkemia.

I thought the choices presented to him were from the result of Macros'
manipulating things but more so because Lims Kragma said they (the gods)
found the idea of pug roaming the world with that much power a rather
worrying prospect.  His ability to rip macros from saric was proof
enough for them.  

The great thing about Raymond's books is that you rarely need to find
out more about a character, you usually meet them and see thier life run
its full course, at least in the case of the star characters (e.g. pug
aruthra kulgan etc).  You never left thinking, hmm, what happened to...
Now (I know its unlikely) but a book on Nakor alone would be a gem..

-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of TeckerDaze
>Sent: 24 July 2002 15:53
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: RE: Conclave: The Magicians?
>
>
>*** spoiler space just in case you haven't read RoaDK or Shards... 
>can't remember which ***
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>I do remember one part where it was said that his natural ability was 
>"tweaked" by Macros...  it was conjectured that it was done so that 
>Pug would bring the Greater Path back to Midkemia... it was due to 
>the said "tweaking" that Pug ended up with the choice presented to 
>him by Lims Kragma, wasn't it?
>
>
>>I think that's pretty much right.
>>
>>I think pugs parents would be a non-event - they were nothing but the 
>>biological mother and father.  It doesn't seem as though pug inherited 
>>any abilities from them nor did they have influence on his personality 
>>or morals etc.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu 
>>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of TeckerDaze
>>Sent: 24 July 2002 14:16
>>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>>Subject: Re: Conclave: The Magicians?
>>
>>
>>>>Also, I know it has no real pertinance, but will we
>>>>ever get a glimpse of who Pug's birth parents are? We
>>>>know it isn't Macros, but getting a slight insight
>>>>would be nice.
>>>
>>>No.
>>>
>>
>>maybe i'm remembering this incorrectly, and i apologise if i am... but 
>>i thought Pug's father was a soldier and his mother was a serving woman
>
>>at an inn... he didn't stick around and she gave him up to the monks at
>
>>the abbey (of Silban?? yes? no?  eh, my mind is still in MSAccess mode,
>
>>sorry)  or is this another case of "don't believe everything you read"?
>>
>>ah well.
>>
>>Teck.
>


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*** EOOH ***
From: "M Chaloner" <markchaloner@btinternet.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Vale Leo McKern
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 18:06:18 +0100
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>For those who weren't aware, Leo McKern (of Rumpole fame) died last
>night in a 
>nursing home in Bath.
>I only bring it up here because Ray mentioned that he was the actor he
>had in 
>mind when writing for Kulgan (see the FAQ
>http://www.psihawk.com/feist/feist-fa
>q.html ).
>alan.
>

I didn't know he was ill, (or maybe it was old father time).
Still, it's a great loss.

Mark.



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*** EOOH ***
From: Jason Mulligan <manwe@internode.on.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 14:14:26 +1000
Subject: Re: New Story
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On Tue, 23 Jul 2002 05:48:23 -0700, Raymond Feist wrote:
>BTW,
>
>I should mention I've got a new story, "One to Go," in the new Thieve's
>World: Turning Point collection, edited by Lynn Abbey.  Should be out
>later this year.

How does it relate to the novel Sanctuary that Lynn wrote (AFAIK the last 
Thieves World story published)?

--
 What if the Hokey Pokey *IS* what it's all about?



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 22:17:38 -0700
Subject: Re: New Story
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Wednesday, July 24, 2002, at 09:14 PM, Jason Mulligan wrote:

> On Tue, 23 Jul 2002 05:48:23 -0700, Raymond Feist wrote:
>> BTW,
>>
>> I should mention I've got a new story, "One to Go," in the new Thieve's
>> World: Turning Point collection, edited by Lynn Abbey.  Should be out
>> later this year.
>
> How does it relate to the novel Sanctuary that Lynn wrote (AFAIK the 
> last
> Thieves World story published)?
>
Yes.  It's a set of stories following that novel.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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From: "Flynn Boyle" <cannibalistic_hen@hotmail.com>
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*** EOOH ***
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From: "Flynn Boyle" <cannibalistic_hen@hotmail.com>
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>From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: Re: Rhuagh
>Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 17:29:15 -0700
>
>
>On Monday, July 22, 2002, at 04:09 PM, Flynn Boyle wrote:
>
>>I first read Magician seven or eight years ago and I still don't know how 
>>to pronounce Rhuagh's name, or is it Rhaugh? Can some one give me a clue. 
>>Flynn.
>>
>
>Rh is like rhythm, uagh is like og, so it is "rhymes with frog."
Ok, hadn't thought of that one.




_________________________________________________________________
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 On Wed, 24 Jul 2002 22:17:38  
 Raymond Feist wrote:
>
>On Wednesday, July 24, 2002, at 09:14 PM, Jason Mulligan wrote:
>
>> How does it relate to the novel Sanctuary that Lynn wrote (AFAIK the 
>> last
>> Thieves World story published)?
>>
>Yes.  It's a set of stories following that novel.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>----
>

I'm not really familiar with the "thieves world" stories, though I
knew it existed. Will it be difficult to read your story if I did not
read the previous books?

Thanx
Paddyjack


_____________________________________________________
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 06:50:25 -0700
Subject: Re: New Story
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On Thursday, July 25, 2002, at 06:06 AM, Paddyjack [ ] wrote:

>  On Wed, 24 Jul 2002 22:17:38
>  Raymond Feist wrote:
>>
>> On Wednesday, July 24, 2002, at 09:14 PM, Jason Mulligan wrote:
>>
>>> How does it relate to the novel Sanctuary that Lynn wrote (AFAIK the
>>> last
>>> Thieves World story published)?
>>>
>> Yes.  It's a set of stories following that novel.
>>
>> Best, R.E.F.
>> ----
>>
>
> I'm not really familiar with the "thieves world" stories, though I knew 
> it existed. Will it be difficult to read your story if I did not read 
> the previous books?
>

No.  The story is pretty generic in one sense.  Some of the references 
would make more sense if you read the entire collection, or earlier 
volumes.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Where would one find these Thieve's World stories?

Also, what is the history behing the "Kings and Magicians" stories on the
website: http://www.austen.com/derby/helgan.htm?

Thanks,
Jud


Raymond Feist wrote:

> On Thursday, July 25, 2002, at 06:06 AM, Paddyjack [ ] wrote:
>
> >  On Wed, 24 Jul 2002 22:17:38
> >  Raymond Feist wrote:
> >>
> >> On Wednesday, July 24, 2002, at 09:14 PM, Jason Mulligan wrote:
> >>
> >>> How does it relate to the novel Sanctuary that Lynn wrote (AFAIK the
> >>> last
> >>> Thieves World story published)?
> >>>
> >> Yes.  It's a set of stories following that novel.
> >>
> >> Best, R.E.F.
> >> ----
> >>
> >
> > I'm not really familiar with the "thieves world" stories, though I knew
> > it existed. Will it be difficult to read your story if I did not read
> > the previous books?
> >
>
> No.  The story is pretty generic in one sense.  Some of the references
> would make more sense if you read the entire collection, or earlier
> volumes.
>
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
>
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
> stupidity.



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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: New Story
In-Reply-To: <3D4007CB.7880F5B5@vorlon.eas.gatech.edu>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 16:06:09 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: New Story
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

A quick look makes me think that they are fanfic, and as 
such against the rules.  Me thinks that someone is about
to get a polite request to remove the stories.

rip

At 15:14 25/07/2002, Jud Partin spake thusly:
>Where would one find these Thieve's World stories?
>
>Also, what is the history behing the "Kings and Magicians" stories on the
>website: http://www.austen.com/derby/helgan.htm?
>
>Thanks,
>Jud
>
>
>Raymond Feist wrote:
>
>> On Thursday, July 25, 2002, at 06:06 AM, Paddyjack [ ] wrote:
>>
>> >  On Wed, 24 Jul 2002 22:17:38
>> >  Raymond Feist wrote:
>> >>
>> >> On Wednesday, July 24, 2002, at 09:14 PM, Jason Mulligan wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> How does it relate to the novel Sanctuary that Lynn wrote (AFAIK the
>> >>> last
>> >>> Thieves World story published)?
>> >>>
>> >> Yes.  It's a set of stories following that novel.
>> >>
>> >> Best, R.E.F.
>> >> ----
>> >>
>> >
>> > I'm not really familiar with the "thieves world" stories, though I knew
>> > it existed. Will it be difficult to read your story if I did not read
>> > the previous books?
>> >
>>
>> No.  The story is pretty generic in one sense.  Some of the references
>> would make more sense if you read the entire collection, or earlier
>> volumes.
>>
>> Best, R.E.F.
>> ----
>>
>> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
>> stupidity.



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From: Fred Collington <fcolling@yahoo.com>
Subject: Advice for Ray (and Joel)
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 10:18:50 -0700 (PDT)
From: Fred Collington <fcolling@yahoo.com>
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If you ever decide to modernize the political systems
in your respective worlds, remember:

In democracy, every vote counts.*
In feudalism, its your count that votes.

*Unless you live in Florida.

OK, I'm going away on vacation now. Back in two weeks,
so I'm out of range.

Cheers,
Fred

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better
http://health.yahoo.com



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 10:44:09 -0700
Subject: Re: New Story
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
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On Thursday, July 25, 2002, at 08:06 AM, Richard Williamson wrote:

> A quick look makes me think that they are fanfic, and as
> such against the rules.  Me thinks that someone is about
> to get a polite request to remove the stories.
>
> rip
>

I just sent the request.  They have 48 hours to pull the story or it 
goes to the lawyers.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 14:32:55 -0400
From: Jud Partin <jpartin@vorlon.eas.gatech.edu>
Organization: Georgia Tech
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Whoops! Didn't mean to start a ruckus. Guess ole curiosity killed the
kitty.

And about the location of those Thieve's World stories...

Jud

Raymond Feist wrote:

> On Thursday, July 25, 2002, at 08:06 AM, Richard Williamson wrote:
>
> > A quick look makes me think that they are fanfic, and as
> > such against the rules.  Me thinks that someone is about
> > to get a polite request to remove the stories.
> >
> > rip
> >
>
> I just sent the request.  They have 48 hours to pull the story or it
> goes to the lawyers.
>
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
>
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
> stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 14:28:32 -0700
Subject: Re: New Story
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On Thursday, July 25, 2002, at 11:32 AM, Jud Partin wrote:

> Whoops! Didn't mean to start a ruckus. Guess ole curiosity killed the
> kitty.
>
> And about the location of those Thieve's World stories...
>
>

Location?  They are in a series of books, starting with "Thieves World," 
then onto "Tales from the Vulgar Unicorn," and several volumes after.

As for starting a ruckus, you didn't.  The fan who thought it OK to use 
my intellectual property started the ruckus.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
From: "M Chaloner" <markchaloner@btinternet.com>
To: "feistfans-l" <feistfans-l@cornell.edu>
Subject: The Jigsaw Lady
Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 13:36:22 +0100
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I know you've got a lot on at the moment (and you probably don't have a
great deal of spare time to write for your own personal pleasure) - but
have you started The Jigsaw Lady yet? Can we expect it *before* you
shuffle off this mortal coil? <grins>

Mark ;-)



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From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Rhuagh
Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 20:44:48 +0800
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*** EOOH ***
From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Rhuagh
Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 20:44:48 +0800
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Rog?

I always thought it more as Roo-arg(silent g), you're the boss though.

Rog? <shakes head in worry> :)

Dave

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu 
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Flynn Boyle
> Sent: Thursday, 25 July 2002 8:18 PM
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Subject: Re: Rhuagh
> 
> 
> >From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
> >Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> >To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> >Subject: Re: Rhuagh
> >Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 17:29:15 -0700
> >
> >
> >On Monday, July 22, 2002, at 04:09 PM, Flynn Boyle wrote:
> >
> >>I first read Magician seven or eight years ago and I still 
> don't know how 
> >>to pronounce Rhuagh's name, or is it Rhaugh? Can some one 
> give me a clue. 
> >>Flynn.
> >>
> >
> >Rh is like rhythm, uagh is like og, so it is "rhymes with frog."
> Ok, hadn't thought of that one.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com
> 



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 06:11:23 -0700
Subject: Re: The Jigsaw Lady
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Friday, July 26, 2002, at 05:36 AM, M Chaloner wrote:

> I know you've got a lot on at the moment (and you probably don't have a
> great deal of spare time to write for your own personal pleasure) - but
> have you started The Jigsaw Lady yet? Can we expect it *before* you
> shuffle off this mortal coil? <grins>
>
> Mark ;-)
>
>
>
>

Have I started it yet?

Only in my head, as I have been "writing" it there for the last 10 
years.  But no, I haven't put a word on computer disk yet.  The five 
books I have under contract are taking up most of my time.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 06:54:25 -0700
Subject: Re: Rhuagh
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

More like

Ra-og.  With the "a" being asperated.

Best, R.E.F.


On Friday, July 26, 2002, at 05:44 AM, David Pengelley wrote:

> Rog?
>
> I always thought it more as Roo-arg(silent g), you're the boss though.
>
> Rog? <shakes head in worry> :)
>
> Dave
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Flynn Boyle
>> Sent: Thursday, 25 July 2002 8:18 PM
>> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>> Subject: Re: Rhuagh
>>
>>
>>> From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
>>> Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>>> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>>> Subject: Re: Rhuagh
>>> Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 17:29:15 -0700
>>>
>>>
>>> On Monday, July 22, 2002, at 04:09 PM, Flynn Boyle wrote:
>>>
>>>> I first read Magician seven or eight years ago and I still
>> don't know how
>>>> to pronounce Rhuagh's name, or is it Rhaugh? Can some one
>> give me a clue.
>>>> Flynn.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Rh is like rhythm, uagh is like og, so it is "rhymes with frog."
>> Ok, hadn't thought of that one.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _________________________________________________________________
>> Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com
>>
>
>
>
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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From: "James Holden" <james@globalvision.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: The Jigsaw Lady
Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 15:06:06 +0100
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From: "James Holden" <james@globalvision.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: The Jigsaw Lady
Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 15:06:06 +0100
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Ray,

Can I ask why you have in more recent years started to produce so many
more books "per year"?  Seems as though the initial riftwar saga took a
fair few years to complete and since Serpent you've gone into
over-drive..  Is it demand, ability to publish more, more time available
or that just fancied writing more..?

Jim

-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Raymond Feist
>Sent: 26 July 2002 14:11
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: Re: The Jigsaw Lady
>
>
>
>On Friday, July 26, 2002, at 05:36 AM, M Chaloner wrote:
>
>> I know you've got a lot on at the moment (and you probably don't have 
>> a great deal of spare time to write for your own personal pleasure) - 
>> but have you started The Jigsaw Lady yet? Can we expect it *before* 
>> you shuffle off this mortal coil? <grins>
>>
>> Mark ;-)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>Have I started it yet?
>
>Only in my head, as I have been "writing" it there for the last 10 
>years.  But no, I haven't put a word on computer disk yet.  The five 
>books I have under contract are taking up most of my time.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
>stupidity.
>


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From: Dun Xiahou <xiahoudun13@yahoo.com>
Subject: Talon teaser
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 08:18:04 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dun Xiahou <xiahoudun13@yahoo.com>
Subject: Talon teaser
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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I just read that teaser excerpt from Talon.  I need
more!  I immediately afterwards pre-ordered it from
Amazon UK.  August 19th, I can't wait....

- Xiahou Dun

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Autos - Get free new car price quotes
http://autos.yahoo.com



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From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Rhuagh
Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2002 00:46:48 +0800
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*** EOOH ***
From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Rhuagh
Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2002 00:46:48 +0800
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Aaah, that I can handle. A dragon that that was one letter away from
being kermit just didn't seem right :) Not that it really affects my
enjoyment of your works whether the dragon is called rog, ra-og, roo-arg
or Miss Piggy for that matter (actually I might have a problem with rog
<grin>)

Pronunciations and accents are just one of those things when it comes to
reading. I recall years ago when I first saw an Asterix cartoon, being
shocked that all the indomitable gauls had French accents. I'd never
given them french accents when reading the books and it seemed
incredibly out of place. It's not like I ever gave them French accents
after seeing that though, I just couldn't do that to myself (no offence
to the french on the list, but the gauls having aussie accents is much
easier)

With Rhuagh I'm now happy to think of it as Ra-og, but I never had a
problem with it being Roo-arg either. Good old english, it's no wonder
people like Victor Borge had such a great career messing with it.

Dave

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu 
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Raymond Feist
> Sent: Friday, 26 July 2002 9:54 PM
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Subject: Re: Rhuagh
> 
> 
> More like
> 
> Ra-og.  With the "a" being asperated.
> 
> Best, R.E.F.
> 
> 
> On Friday, July 26, 2002, at 05:44 AM, David Pengelley wrote:
> 
> > Rog?
> >
> > I always thought it more as Roo-arg(silent g), you're the 
> boss though.
> >
> > Rog? <shakes head in worry> :)
> >
> > Dave
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> >> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Flynn Boyle
> >> Sent: Thursday, 25 July 2002 8:18 PM
> >> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> >> Subject: Re: Rhuagh
> >>
> >>
> >>> From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
> >>> Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> >>> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> >>> Subject: Re: Rhuagh
> >>> Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 17:29:15 -0700
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Monday, July 22, 2002, at 04:09 PM, Flynn Boyle wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> I first read Magician seven or eight years ago and I still
> >> don't know how
> >>>> to pronounce Rhuagh's name, or is it Rhaugh? Can some one
> >> give me a clue.
> >>>> Flynn.
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> Rh is like rhythm, uagh is like og, so it is "rhymes with frog."
> >> Ok, hadn't thought of that one.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _________________________________________________________________
> >> Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com
>>
>
>
>
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
>stupidity.
>


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Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 10:51:54 -0700 (PDT)
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From: Dun Xiahou <xiahoudun13@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: Rhuagh
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 10:51:54 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dun Xiahou <xiahoudun13@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: Rhuagh
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

LOL, the Gauls WERE French.  That's where they come
from:  France.

- Xiahou Dun

--- David Pengelley <wolf@icenet.com.au> wrote:
-snip- 
> Pronunciations and accents are just one of those
> things when it comes to
> reading. I recall years ago when I first saw an
> Asterix cartoon, being
> shocked that all the indomitable gauls had French
> accents. I'd never
> given them french accents when reading the books and
> it seemed
> incredibly out of place. It's not like I ever gave
> them French accents
> after seeing that though, I just couldn't do that to
> myself (no offence
> to the french on the list, but the gauls having
> aussie accents is much
> easier)
-snip-

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better
http://health.yahoo.com



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Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 11:07:07 -0700
Subject: Re: The Jigsaw Lady
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 11:07:07 -0700
Subject: Re: The Jigsaw Lady
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Friday, July 26, 2002, at 07:06 AM, James Holden wrote:

> Ray,
>
> Can I ask why you have in more recent years started to produce so many
> more books "per year"?  Seems as though the initial riftwar saga took a
> fair few years to complete and since Serpent you've gone into
> over-drive..  Is it demand, ability to publish more, more time available
> or that just fancied writing more..?
>
> Jim
>

It's your perceptions, partially based on Harper UK bringing out two a 
year with my name on it because of the Legends series.

I've done 20 books in about 22 years, and one per year is about norm.

I will pick up production and try to keep to a two book per year output 
for a while.

I need the money.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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From: "William Marnoch" <william@wmarnoch.freeserve.co.uk>
To: fEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 20:13:16 +0100
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Subject: Murder in Lamut on Amazon.co.uk
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*** EOOH ***
From: "William Marnoch" <william@wmarnoch.freeserve.co.uk>
To: fEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 20:13:16 +0100
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Hi,

I was looking on Amazon.co.uk and was a bit surprised to 
notice that "Murder in Lamut" only had a review score of 
2.5 / 5 after several reviews. I found the book to be very 
enjoyable and I though the consensus on here was that it 
was a good book, so I'm a bit surprised that it gets such a 
comparatively low score. 

I suppose this may be due to the fact that 7 reviews isn't 
exactly a comprehensive sampling... Anyway, I've just 
submitted a 4-star review which should drag the average 
up a bit ;). 

-- 
William Marnoch
ICQ:77848483
william@wmarnoch.freeserve.co.uk



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From: "Flynn Boyle" <cannibalistic_hen@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Northlands
Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2002 01:01:27 +0000
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*** EOOH ***
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From: "Flynn Boyle" <cannibalistic_hen@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Northlands
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Hi Ray,
             Any chance that the Northlands would feature directly in future 
books? I'd love to read about Neldarlod (is that it?) ("The Place of the 
Beech Trees"), where the came glamredhel came from before they were in the 
Edder anyway, and the ice caves near the north pole. Sorry, just my mad 
musings. Thanks, Flynn.



_________________________________________________________________
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From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Rhuagh
Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2002 11:21:17 +0800
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*** EOOH ***
From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Rhuagh
Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2002 11:21:17 +0800
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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I know that, but when I was 10 that thought had never really crossed my
mind.

Dave

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu 
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Dun Xiahou
> Sent: Saturday, 27 July 2002 1:52 AM
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Subject: RE: Rhuagh
> 
> 
> LOL, the Gauls WERE French.  That's where they come
> from:  France.
> 
> - Xiahou Dun
> 
> --- David Pengelley <wolf@icenet.com.au> wrote:
> -snip- 
> > Pronunciations and accents are just one of those
> > things when it comes to
> > reading. I recall years ago when I first saw an
> > Asterix cartoon, being
> > shocked that all the indomitable gauls had French
> > accents. I'd never
> > given them french accents when reading the books and
> > it seemed
> > incredibly out of place. It's not like I ever gave
> > them French accents
> > after seeing that though, I just couldn't do that to
> > myself (no offence
> > to the french on the list, but the gauls having
> > aussie accents is much
> > easier)
> -snip-
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better
> http://health.yahoo.com
> 



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>
>I will pick up production and try to keep to a two book per year output 
>for a while.
>
>I need the money.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>----
I know divorces are expensive, but I would have thought with the success
of your books money wouldn't have been too much of a worry. 
Then again it does depend on the terms of the divorce and your 
lifestyles I suppose.
I'm not prying here Ray, just musing :-)
Regards
Chris
"If we don't change direction soon, we'll end up where we're going. " 
Professor Irwin Corey

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Subject: question for Mr. Feist
Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2002 17:34:49 -0400
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Subject: question for Mr. Feist
Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2002 17:34:49 -0400
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Mr. Feist I was wondering if you have been approached or have talked
to R. A. Salvatore about doing one of your collaboration books.  I
personally would love to see it, not that that really matters.  I was
just curious.  Have a good day.

                                                              Thanks
                                                          Steve Weghorn

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Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2002 23:49:43 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: Al Burrell <al.burl@tiscali.co.uk>
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That would a great collaboration. Salvatore's Dark Elf Trilogy is one of my 
favourites.

Al

At 17:34 27/07/2002 -0400, Steve Weghorn wrote:
>Mr. Feist I was wondering if you have been approached or have talked to R. 
>A. Salvatore about doing one of your collaboration books.  I personally 
>would love to see it, not that that really matters.  I was just 
>curious.  Have a good day.
>                                                               Thanks
>                                                           Steve Weghorn
>
>
>----------
>MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: Click Here



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Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2002 18:11:24 -0700
Subject: Re: question for Mr. Feist
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
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On Saturday, July 27, 2002, at 02:34 PM, Steve Weghorn wrote:

> Mr. Feist I was wondering if you have been approached or have talked to 
> R. A. Salvatore about doing one of your collaboration books.  I 
> personally would love to see it, not that that really matters.  I was 
> just curious.  Have a good day.
>

No.  I know Bob, casually, and have met him a couple of times.  Very 
likable guy.  But I haven't read much of his stuff, so I don't have a 
strong feeling for how it might work.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.

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Subject: Re: question for Mr. Feist
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Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2002 13:55:25 +1200
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    Do you plan to read any of his stuff in the forseeable future ? Or
are you too busy for a while.

>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: Raymond Feist 
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu 
>Sent: Sunday, July 28, 2002 1:11 PM
>Subject: Re: question for Mr. Feist
>
>
>On Saturday, July 27, 2002, at 02:34 PM, Steve Weghorn wrote:
>
>>Mr. Feist I was wondering if you have been approached or have talked
>>to R. A. Salvatore about doing one of your collaboration books.  I
>>personally would love to see it, not that that really matters.  I
>>was just curious.  Have a good day.
>
>No. I know Bob, casually, and have met him a couple of times. Very
>likable guy. But I haven't read much of his stuff, so I don't have a
>strong feeling for how it might work.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by stupidity.

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On Saturday, July 27, 2002, at 06:55 PM, Adam Thornton wrote:

>     Do you plan to read any of his stuff in the forseeable future ? Or 
> are you too busy for a while.
>

I have no plans to read anything.  I pick up things along the way, but 
mostly I'm too busy to read anything except for research or pleasure, 
and I don't read fantasy for pleasure, except in a few cases.  Mostly I 
like non-fiction.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.
>

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*** EOOH ***
From: Gkhd11a@aol.com
Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2002 11:22:31 EDT
Subject: Re: question for Mr. Feist
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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In a message dated 7/27/02 10:06:15 PM Central Daylight Time, 
raymond@bittersea.com writes:
>On Saturday, July 27, 2002, at 06:55 PM, Adam Thornton wrote:
>
>>     Do you plan to read any of his stuff in the forseeable future ? Or 
>> are you too busy for a while.
>>
>
>I have no plans to read anything.  I pick up things along the way, but 
>mostly I'm too busy to read anything except for research or pleasure, 
>and I don't read fantasy for pleasure, except in a few cases.  Mostly I 
>like non-fiction.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
>stupidity.

Isn't that odd for a writer to say?  I mean, don't most writers read as much 
as they can, and usually read the most in the area they write?



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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Gkhd11a@aol.com wrote:

> Isn't that odd for a writer to say?  I mean, don't most writers read as much 
> as they can, and usually read the most in the area they write?

The vast majority of the writers I know are pretty much like Ray - they 
read things very different from what they write, for various reasons. 
Being tired of their genre, and not wanting to be affected by others' 
ideas are just wo reasons.

Most of the SF/Fantasy writers I know read a lot of history, 
anthropology, science, and other non-fiction.

cd
-- 
Death to all Absolutists!



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Subject: Re: question for Mr. Feist
From: Joel Rosenberg <joelr@ellegon.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Date: 28 Jul 2002 10:58:31 -0500
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On Sun, 2002-07-28 at 10:22, Gkhd11a@aol.com wrote:
> In a message dated 7/27/02 10:06:15 PM Central Daylight Time, 
> raymond@bittersea.com writes:
> 
> << On Saturday, July 27, 2002, at 06:55 PM, Adam Thornton wrote:
>  
>  >     Do you plan to read any of his stuff in the forseeable future ? Or 
>  > are you too busy for a while.
>  >
>  
>  I have no plans to read anything.  I pick up things along the way, but 
>  mostly I'm too busy to read anything except for research or pleasure, 
>  and I don't read fantasy for pleasure, except in a few cases.  Mostly I 
>  like non-fiction.
>  
>  Best, R.E.F.
>  ----
>  
>  Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
>  stupidity. >>
> 
> Isn't that odd for a writer to say?  I mean, don't most writers read as much 
> as they can, and usually read the most in the area they write?
> 
> 

Nope.  Writers vary.  Many -- most? -- fantasy writers read very little
current fantasy.  



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>From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: Re: question for Mr. Feist
>Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2002 19:39:24 -0700
>
>
Where do your tastes fall in non-fiction books, biographys, history, or are 
you into the home improvement(just kidding)? And what would you recomend.
>
>I have no plans to read anything.  I pick up things along the way, but 
>mostly I'm too busy to read anything except for research or pleasure, and I 
>don't read fantasy for pleasure, except in a few cases.  Mostly I like 
>non-fiction.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
>stupidity.
>>



_________________________________________________________________
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Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2002 19:48:30 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: Andrea J Chee <andrea@bloodaxe.com>
Subject: Re: question for Mr. Feist
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In article <f2.1f306141.2a756637@aol.com>, Gkhd11a@aol.com writes

>Isn't that odd for a writer to say?  I mean, don't most writers read as much 
>as they can, and usually read the most in the area they write?

I can't say it's true for every writer, of course, but as far as I am
concerned I read a great deal but over the broadest possible spectrum. I
rarely read in my own particular specialities, unless it's going to be
specifically useful to me. I've found that most of the writers I've
encountered do something similar.

It's true that aspiring writers are advised to read a lot, but they
shouldn't just stick to the genre they aspire to. For a writer, reading
is less about seeing what your peers are writing, and more about reading
writing of all styles and standards, and gathering information (a head
stuffed full of trivia is the secret armoury of all writers, fiction or
non-fiction).

Of course, there is also reading for fun, but few people want to spend
their free time doing the same as their day job, and writers are no
different. Most of the writers I know read a bizarre mix of things for
fun - if they have anything in common it's usually that their 'off-duty'
reading is rarely confined to a single genre because their broad range
of interests tends to ensure they like a wide variety of things.

Fantasy authors draw a lot of concepts into their work - history,
science, battle tactics, mythology, classic stories, politics, law,
geography, alchemy, equestrianism, weaponry, etc. They need to know
about those things before they can include them. Journos like myself may
have to come up with just about anything at short notice, so we read
about everything!

If all you ever read is what has been written before in your own field,
you end up with nothing to write about that isn't just a rehash of what
has already been written by someone else.

- ANDREA

-- 
^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^
                  ANDROMEDA - Internet Goddess
<andrea@bloodaxe.com>                    http://www.bloodaxe.com/
Bloodaxe's History Links:   http://www.geocities.com/Athens/5055/
The Loony Bin Archive:               http://www.theloonies.co.uk/



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Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2002 16:59:20 EDT
Subject: Re: question for Mr. Feist
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*** EOOH ***
From: Gkhd11a@aol.com
Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2002 16:59:20 EDT
Subject: Re: question for Mr. Feist
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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In a message dated 7/28/02 2:32:36 PM Central Daylight Time, 
andrea@bloodaxe.com writes:
>In article <f2.1f306141.2a756637@aol.com>, Gkhd11a@aol.com writes
>
>>Isn't that odd for a writer to say?  I mean, don't most writers read as much 
>>as they can, and usually read the most in the area they write?
>
>I can't say it's true for every writer, of course, but as far as I am
>concerned I read a great deal but over the broadest possible spectrum. I
>rarely read in my own particular specialities, unless it's going to be
>specifically useful to me. I've found that most of the writers I've
>encountered do something similar.
>
>It's true that aspiring writers are advised to read a lot, but they
>shouldn't just stick to the genre they aspire to. For a writer, reading
>is less about seeing what your peers are writing, and more about reading
>writing of all styles and standards, and gathering information (a head
>stuffed full of trivia is the secret armoury of all writers, fiction or
>non-fiction).
>
>Of course, there is also reading for fun, but few people want to spend
>their free time doing the same as their day job, and writers are no
>different. Most of the writers I know read a bizarre mix of things for
>fun - if they have anything in common it's usually that their 'off-duty'
>reading is rarely confined to a single genre because their broad range
>of interests tends to ensure they like a wide variety of things.
>
>Fantasy authors draw a lot of concepts into their work - history,
>science, battle tactics, mythology, classic stories, politics, law,
>geography, alchemy, equestrianism, weaponry, etc. They need to know
>about those things before they can include them. Journos like myself may
>have to come up with just about anything at short notice, so we read
>about everything!
>
>If all you ever read is what has been written before in your own field,
>you end up with nothing to write about that isn't just a rehash of what
>has already been written by someone else.
>
>- ANDREA

I never thought that writers would only read what is in there genre, but I 
did think that they tried to read most of what is comming out in it, to 
understand what other people are writing, so they know what has been done 
before.  

As an aspiring author, I can easily see how much history, science, battle 
tactics, mytholog, classic stories, politics, law, geography, alchemy, 
equestrianism, weaponry, and more can help with writing fantasy.  One of the 
biggest problems I find in writing fantasy is how much you need to know.  If 
somebody is on a ship, you have to be an expert about ships, if somebody is 
in a duel, you have to be an expert on swordplay.  




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Subject: Re: question for Mr. Feist
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2002 23:29:12 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: Andrea J Chee <andrea@bloodaxe.com>
Subject: Re: question for Mr. Feist
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

In article <49.211e8c41.2a75b528@aol.com>, Gkhd11a@aol.com writes

>I never thought that writers would only read what is in there genre, but I 
>did think that they tried to read most of what is comming out in it, to 
>understand what other people are writing, so they know what has been done 
>before.  

While you need to be familiar with your genre, I can't see any need for
extensive reading of what others are coming up with. It would only serve
two purposes - either so that you can copy their ideas rather than come
up with your own, or to avoid doing so which is a bit moot since you
can't copy what you haven't read. What other writers are doing really
doesn't affect your story at all - if it's any good, people will enjoy
reading it.

>  One of the 
>biggest problems I find in writing fantasy is how much you need to know.  If 
>somebody is on a ship, you have to be an expert about ships, if somebody is 
>in a duel, you have to be an expert on swordplay.  

In a sense. You don't really have to be an expert on these things, you
just have to sound like one, even to those who are familiar with the
subject. The trick to that is knowing the basics of the subject well and
having a broad range of knowledge to support it. No-one will care
whether you actually can sail a ship or fight a duel like an expert, as
long as you have learned enough about these subjects to describe them in
such a way as to make them realistic for the reader. In fact, if you
took the time to become a real expert in some of these things, you'd
only ever be able to manage a couple of them because they take years of
study. You need to be more of a Jack-of-all-trades than a specialist.

All writing is like that, with the possible exception of specialist work
like academic writing (where you do the years of study, and become a
real expert). It's actually two major skills combined - the ability to
craft the words, and coming up with things to write, in other words,
language and content. It's the latter that can leave you struggling if
you don't have a broad range of knowledge and experience to draw on. You
can, of course, look up individual details on various subjects as and
when you need them, but you can't really make sense of those details and
use them effectively unless you know how they fit into the grander
scheme of things. 

I don't think I've met a writer yet who isn't an armchair expert on all
sorts of bizarre topics. It goes with the job. :-)

- ANDREA

-- 
^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^
                  ANDROMEDA - Internet Goddess
<andrea@bloodaxe.com>                    http://www.bloodaxe.com/
Bloodaxe's History Links:   http://www.geocities.com/Athens/5055/
The Loony Bin Archive:               http://www.theloonies.co.uk/



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Subject: Re: question for Mr. Feist
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2002 15:58:24 -0700
Subject: Re: question for Mr. Feist
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Sunday, July 28, 2002, at 08:22 AM, Gkhd11a@aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 7/27/02 10:06:15 PM Central Daylight Time,
> raymond@bittersea.com writes:
>
> << On Saturday, July 27, 2002, at 06:55 PM, Adam Thornton wrote:
>
>>     Do you plan to read any of his stuff in the forseeable future ? Or
>> are you too busy for a while.
>>
>
>  I have no plans to read anything.  I pick up things along the way, but
>  mostly I'm too busy to read anything except for research or pleasure,
>  and I don't read fantasy for pleasure, except in a few cases.  Mostly I
>  like non-fiction.
>
>  Best, R.E.F.
>  ----
>
>  Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
>  stupidity. >>
>
> Isn't that odd for a writer to say?  I mean, don't most writers read as 
> much
> as they can, and usually read the most in the area they write?
>

I have no idea what most writers do.  I can only tell you that by the 
end of the day, I'm sick of words.

Then again, I write a lot more than most writers.

Best, R.E.F.
>
>
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Subject: Languages of Midkemia
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From: Jason Mulligan <manwe@internode.on.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 09:22:27 +1000
Subject: Languages of Midkemia
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I've been toying with running a RPG set in Midkemia. Anyway, one of the things 
I've been looking at is all the languages of Midkemia and how they relate. At 
this stage I'm still trying to compile just a list, here's what I have to far:

Kingdom
Jal-pur (tongue of the desertmen)
Keshian
High Keshian
Northern Keshian
Desert Patois 
Beni

Anyone interested in helping me compile a more complete list?


--
 What if the Hokey Pokey *IS* what it's all about?



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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: question for Mr. Feist
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*** EOOH ***
From: coweater@alphalink.com.au
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: question for Mr. Feist
Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 08:27:18 +1000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Joel & Ray,

I can understand not wanting to spend personnel time reading fantasy when 
you write it for a living. Could there also be a case that you may be 
influenced more (story lines, characters) if you read current fantasy 
more? I mean you both have your own worlds which you've created and worked 
in over a number of years which are distinctly your own, but do fantasy 
author's sometimes not read other works in there own genre for fear of 
subconsciously or otherwise adopting someone else's ideas?

Cheers,

Brad



>
>Joel Rosenberg <joelr@ellegon.com>
>Sent by: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>29/07/2002 01:58 AM
>Please respond to FEISTFANS-L
>
> 
>	 To:     FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>	 cc: 
>	 Subject:        Re: question for Mr. Feist
>
>
>On Sun, 2002-07-28 at 10:22, Gkhd11a@aol.com wrote:
>> In a message dated 7/27/02 10:06:15 PM Central Daylight Time, 
>> raymond@bittersea.com writes:
>> 
>> << On Saturday, July 27, 2002, at 06:55 PM, Adam Thornton wrote:
>> 
>>  >     Do you plan to read any of his stuff in the forseeable future ? Or 
>>  > are you too busy for a while.
>>  >
>> 
>>  I have no plans to read anything.  I pick up things along the way, but 
>>  mostly I'm too busy to read anything except for research or pleasure, 
>>  and I don't read fantasy for pleasure, except in a few cases.  Mostly I 
>>  like non-fiction.
>> 
>>  Best, R.E.F.
>>  ----
>> 
>>  Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
>>  stupidity. >>
>> 
>> Isn't that odd for a writer to say?  I mean, don't most writers read as much 
>> as they can, and usually read the most in the area they write?
>> 
>> 
>
>Nope.  Writers vary.  Many -- most? -- fantasy writers read very little
>current fantasy. 

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Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2002 18:14:53 -0700
Subject: Re: question for Mr. Feist
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On Sunday, July 28, 2002, at 10:24 AM, John Jeffries wrote:

>
>
>
>> From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
>> Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>> Subject: Re: question for Mr. Feist
>> Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2002 19:39:24 -0700
>>
>>
> Where do your tastes fall in non-fiction books, biographys, history, or 
> are you into the home improvement(just kidding)? And what would you 
> recomend.

I don't recommend.  Mostly because in non-fiction you read in areas of 
interest, and if you have no interest in serious wine, for example, me 
recommending books by Michael Broadbent or Robert Parker would be a 
waste of time.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.
>>>
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
>
>



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*** EOOH ***
From: Jason Mulligan <manwe@internode.on.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 11:23:43 +1000
Subject: Re: question for Mr. Feist
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On Sat, 27 Jul 2002 18:11:24 -0700, Raymond Feist wrote:
>
>On Saturday, July 27, 2002, at 02:34 PM, Steve Weghorn wrote:
>
>> Mr. Feist I was wondering if you have been approached or have talked to
>> R. A. Salvatore about doing one of your collaboration books.  I
>> personally would love to see it, not that that really matters.  I was
>> just curious.  Have a good day.
>>
>
>No.  I know Bob, casually, and have met him a couple of times.  Very
>likable guy.  But I haven't read much of his stuff, so I don't have a
>strong feeling for how it might work.

Speaking of further collaborations, are there any authors who dont normally 
write fantasy that you think would make for an interesting co-author?




--
 What if the Hokey Pokey *IS* what it's all about?



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From: Gkhd11a@aol.com
Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2002 22:01:34 EDT
Subject: Re: question for Mr. Feist
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In a message dated 7/28/02 5:59:57 PM Central Daylight Time, 
andrea@bloodaxe.com writes:
>You don't really have to be an expert on these things, you
>just have to sound like one

By expert, I didn't mean being an expert at actually doing it.  I mean, if I 
wanted to describe a duel so that the reader could see the scene play out in 
your head vividly, I would want to study up on how people actually do it, and 
watch a few videos showing it.  I would consider myself an expert of Diving, 
yet I'm just a good High School Diver, not a expert at diving.  I'm sure I 
could describe a dive just as well as any olympic diver (as long as it was a 
dive on a one meter springboard).  Sorry for any confusion.

The fact that I would need to know so much on a very broad range of topics 
for fantasy makes me wonder if I should really try to write it, right now.  I 
have a huge number of different ideas about novels set in High School, my 
favorite one being "The Unpopulars".  It is a story set around a group of 
people who start off as great freinds, but lots of problems arise from half 
of them being devote Christians, and the other half firmly beliveing in 
Atheism.  Should I try to push ahead with the Fantasy (which I think has much 
better ideas, probably because I work with them a lot more) or try to write 
something like "The Unpopulars" and wait on fantasy until I have a broader 
range of knowlage?



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From: "Michelle Thomson" <chell_40@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Ray in Auckland
Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 14:37:11 +1200
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I was having a quick browse through the books in Whitcoulls Auckland today 
and came across a sign with information about Rays visit in Auckland.

Hes going to be at Whitcoulls Auckland (corner of Queen St and Victoria 
Street) between 7.00pm and 8.30pm on Thursday 26 September.  They're wanting 
us to RSVP to Caron on 356 5400.  According to the sign hes going to be 
doing a bit of a talk about his writing and stuff.  Thats all the 
information I got down today.  I'll be having a  better look tomorrow, so if 
there is anything else you need to know I'll post tomorrow.

(Yeaahhhh!!!!! I'm sooo excited!!!! I'm first on the list!!!!!  Looking 
forward to seeing you all)

Michelle Thomson

*************************
Never argue with an idiot, first they bring you down to their level, then 
they beat you with experience.


_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com



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Subject: Re: Languages of Midkemia
Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 13:23:03 +1000
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The refugees from Armengar have thier own dialect? Also the mountain
people - Baru's kind. I don't quiet remember but I think I read something of
the people of Yabon having thier own tongue also? Are you going to include
the Elves, Dwarves, Moredehl so forth, also?  Or is it purely Kingdom and
Kesh?



----- Original Message -----
From: Jason Mulligan <manwe@internode.on.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Monday, July 29, 2002 9:22 AM
Subject: Languages of Midkemia


> I've been toying with running a RPG set in Midkemia. Anyway, one of the things
> I've been looking at is all the languages of Midkemia and how they relate. At
> this stage I'm still trying to compile just a list, here's what I have to far:
>
> Kingdom
> Jal-pur (tongue of the desertmen)
> Keshian
> High Keshian
> Northern Keshian
> Desert Patois
> Beni
>
> Anyone interested in helping me compile a more complete list?
>
>
> --
>  What if the Hokey Pokey *IS* what it's all about?
>



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On Mon, 29 Jul 2002 13:23:03 +1000, Rhyaeth wrote:
>The refugees from Armengar have thier own dialect? Also the mountain
>people - Baru's kind. I don't quiet remember but I think I read something of
>the people of Yabon having thier own tongue also? Are you going to include
>the Elves, Dwarves, Moredehl so forth, also?  Or is it purely Kingdom and
>Kesh?

Yeah. I'll include the non-human tongues, but thats just what I started with. 
Actually its a list I started ages ago and recently dug it up and decided to 
try and complete it.

As for the Elves and the Moredhel, I've been wondering if they share a language 
or not.

Also, I've been wondering about the numbers of languages which have both spoken 
and written versions as opposed to just spoken.

The other thing is the relationships of the human languages. Did just a single 
people arrive in Midkemia, and thus all the human languages are related 
somewhat?


>----- Original Message -----
>From: Jason Mulligan <manwe@internode.on.net>
>To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
>Sent: Monday, July 29, 2002 9:22 AM
>Subject: Languages of Midkemia
>
>
>> I've been toying with running a RPG set in Midkemia. Anyway, one of the
>things
>> I've been looking at is all the languages of Midkemia and how they relate.
>At
>> this stage I'm still trying to compile just a list, here's what I have to
>far:
>>
>> Kingdom
>> Jal-pur (tongue of the desertmen)
>> Keshian
>> High Keshian
>> Northern Keshian
>> Desert Patois
>> Beni
>>
>> Anyone interested in helping me compile a more complete list?
>>
>>
>> --
>> What if the Hokey Pokey *IS* what it's all about?
>>
>


--
 What if the Hokey Pokey *IS* what it's all about?



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Subject: Re: Languages of Midkemia
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*** EOOH ***
From: JEEPMONSTER69@aol.com
Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 00:22:23 EDT
Subject: Re: Languages of Midkemia
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

In a message dated 7/28/2002 7:50:47 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
manwe@internode.on.net writes:


> I've been toying with running a RPG set in Midkemia. Anyway, one of the 
> things 
> I've been looking at is all the languages of Midkemia and how they relate. 
> At 
> this stage I'm still trying to compile just a list, here's what I have to 
> far:
> 
> Kingdom
> Jal-pur (tongue of the desertmen)
> Keshian
> High Keshian
> Northern Keshian
> Desert Patois 
> Beni
> 
> Anyone interested in helping me compile a more complete list?
> 

Well, you can't forget Natalese, which is related to the language(s) of 
Novindus.  Also, any languages from the Eastern Kingdoms, the Keshian 
Confederacy, Delkian, Quegan, any languages from cities like Bas-Tyra or 
Rodez...There's a lot to be done on that one, but it would be interesting to 
see a list.

                                                 Peace,
                                                             Matt     

"Lets Roll."- Todd Beamer
USA, Muthafacko!

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Subject: Re: question for Mr. Feist
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Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 05:59:48 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: Andrea J Chee <andrea@bloodaxe.com>
Subject: Re: question for Mr. Feist
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In article <17e.bc1e0ba.2a75fbfe@aol.com>, Gkhd11a@aol.com writes

> Should I try to push ahead with the Fantasy (which I think has much 
>better ideas, probably because I work with them a lot more) or try to write 
>something like "The Unpopulars" and wait on fantasy until I have a broader 
>range of knowlage?

Either. You're young and learning - at that stage the important thing is
just to sit down and write. Gathering knowledge takes time, but so does
developing the ability to organise your thoughts and then craft the
words to express them, and practising writing different things is the
only way to learn that. When you write what you know, the story tends to
be more three-dimensional, which does make a better story in terms of
pleasing the reader, but stretching your limits is a useful exercise
when you're trying to learn. Some things you write which are beyond your
experience will teach you how little you know, and help you discover
what you're interested in writing about, which will guide you in
deciding what subjects you need to explore. 

By having a go at different things, you'll also discover what sort of
things you enjoy and are good at - few people can write in every genre.
Much as I aspired to it when I was younger, I'll never write fantasy -
every sample I've ever tried has been artificial and cliched. I simply
haven't the knack for it. I'm fine with non-fiction features (but not
news), horror and some sci-fi, but my fantasy is truly abysmal.

And be prepared for the fact that in 10 years you may well look back at
much of what you write now, and think how awful it is!

- ANDREA

-- 
^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^
                  ANDROMEDA - Internet Goddess
<andrea@bloodaxe.com>                    http://www.bloodaxe.com/
Bloodaxe's History Links:   http://www.geocities.com/Athens/5055/
The Loony Bin Archive:               http://www.theloonies.co.uk/



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From: "Greg Bulloch" <somedude1_2000@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Languages of Midkemia
Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 16:30:45 +1000
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RPG? Ray will never let you do it


>From: JEEPMONSTER69@aol.com
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: Re: Languages of Midkemia
>Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 00:22:23 EDT
>
>In a message dated 7/28/2002 7:50:47 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
>manwe@internode.on.net writes:
>
>
> > I've been toying with running a RPG set in Midkemia. Anyway, one of the
> > things
> > I've been looking at is all the languages of Midkemia and how they 
>relate.
> > At
> > this stage I'm still trying to compile just a list, here's what I have 
>to
> > far:
> >
> > Kingdom
> > Jal-pur (tongue of the desertmen)
> > Keshian
> > High Keshian
> > Northern Keshian
> > Desert Patois
> > Beni
> >
> > Anyone interested in helping me compile a more complete list?
> >
>
>Well, you can't forget Natalese, which is related to the language(s) of
>Novindus.  Also, any languages from the Eastern Kingdoms, the Keshian
>Confederacy, Delkian, Quegan, any languages from cities like Bas-Tyra or
>Rodez...There's a lot to be done on that one, but it would be interesting 
>to
>see a list.
>
>                                                  Peace,
>                                                              Matt
>
>"Lets Roll."- Todd Beamer
>USA, Muthafacko!
>


_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com



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Subject: Re: Languages of Midkemia
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I know of quite a few Midkemian based rps and characters. Where I rp there
are plenty of characters from Feist's books as well as plotlines. People
don't do it to steal on someone's books, they do it because they've enjoyed
the books and wanted to keep the characters going and alive in their own
little world. No offence to Mr Feist, but whether he gives premission or not
matters little in a majority of the circumstances. If someone claims his
ideas/stories/ect as thier own, obviously that's a completely different
matter. But as for chat based RPs, what can he do?



----- Original Message -----
From: Greg Bulloch <somedude1_2000@hotmail.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Monday, July 29, 2002 4:30 PM
Subject: Re: Languages of Midkemia


> RPG? Ray will never let you do it
>
>
> >From: JEEPMONSTER69@aol.com
> >Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> >To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> >Subject: Re: Languages of Midkemia
> >Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 00:22:23 EDT
> >
> >In a message dated 7/28/2002 7:50:47 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> >manwe@internode.on.net writes:
> >
> >
> > > I've been toying with running a RPG set in Midkemia. Anyway, one of the
> > > things
> > > I've been looking at is all the languages of Midkemia and how they
> >relate.
> > > At
> > > this stage I'm still trying to compile just a list, here's what I have
> >to
> > > far:
> > >
> > > Kingdom
> > > Jal-pur (tongue of the desertmen)
> > > Keshian
> > > High Keshian
> > > Northern Keshian
> > > Desert Patois
> > > Beni
> > >
> > > Anyone interested in helping me compile a more complete list?
> > >
> >
> >Well, you can't forget Natalese, which is related to the language(s) of
> >Novindus.  Also, any languages from the Eastern Kingdoms, the Keshian
> >Confederacy, Delkian, Quegan, any languages from cities like Bas-Tyra or
> >Rodez...There's a lot to be done on that one, but it would be interesting
> >to
> >see a list.
> >
> >                                                  Peace,
> >                                                              Matt
> >
> >"Lets Roll."- Todd Beamer
> >USA, Muthafacko!
> >
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com
>



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From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: Languages of Midkemia
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Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 08:45:17 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: Languages of Midkemia
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At 07:30 29/07/2002, Greg Bulloch spake thusly:
>RPG? Ray will never let you do it

Actually, there is nothing stopping him from running an RPG
based on Midkemia.  Midkemia is based on an RPG.  Source
materials for Midkemia-as-RPG exist.  Therefor, running an
RPG is no problem.  

If he tries to publish additional "source material" for
Midkemia, then Ray can step in.  If he tries to write
stories based on his games in Midkemia, then Ray can 
step in.  If he blatantly uses Ray's characters, events
or histories, then Ray can step in. 

If he sets his game on the land, without using any
of the Ray's characters, then who can tell him no?

Running a game for a few of his friends?  Nobody
can stop him. It's what parts he chooses to use
that could cause trouble.

rip



>>From: JEEPMONSTER69@aol.com
>>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>>Subject: Re: Languages of Midkemia
>>Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 00:22:23 EDT
>>
>>In a message dated 7/28/2002 7:50:47 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
>>manwe@internode.on.net writes:
>>
>>
>>> I've been toying with running a RPG set in Midkemia. Anyway, one of the
>>> things
>>> I've been looking at is all the languages of Midkemia and how they relate.
>>> At
>>> this stage I'm still trying to compile just a list, here's what I have to
>>> far:
>>>
>>> Kingdom
>>> Jal-pur (tongue of the desertmen)
>>> Keshian
>>> High Keshian
>>> Northern Keshian
>>> Desert Patois
>>> Beni
>>>
>>> Anyone interested in helping me compile a more complete list?
>>>
>>
>>Well, you can't forget Natalese, which is related to the language(s) of
>>Novindus.  Also, any languages from the Eastern Kingdoms, the Keshian
>>Confederacy, Delkian, Quegan, any languages from cities like Bas-Tyra or
>>Rodez...There's a lot to be done on that one, but it would be interesting to
>>see a list.
>>
>>                                                 Peace,
>>                                                             Matt
>>
>>"Lets Roll."- Todd Beamer
>>USA, Muthafacko!
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com



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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Asterix, was RE: Rhuagh
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Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 08:51:12 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Asterix, was RE: Rhuagh
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At 18:51 26/07/2002, Dun Xiahou spake thusly:
>LOL, the Gauls WERE French.  That's where they come
>from:  France.
>
>- Xiahou Dun

You're beeing funny, right?  "The Gauls were French".

Um.  The Gaulois were from Gaul.  They were Celts.  
Then they were Romano-celts.  Eventually enough
"foreigners" showed up and they started calling
themselves France.  Before that, they spoke the
predecessor of Gaelic.  If anyone is suggesting
that they spoke ur-Gaelic with a /French/ accent,
someone should take them out behind the woodshed
and slap them around a bit with a three-day old
salmon until they admit the Error of Their Ways.

Saying that the Gauls should have French accents
is funny.  I was going to use "ludicrous", which
has the same meaning but different connotations.
See, I'm chilling out in my old age.

Asterix is a comic strip.  The characters are
comic characters.  They can have whatever accent
the producers think will have the most humor
value.  I personally think that Asterix having
a Kiwi accent would be hilarious.  But don't ever
assume that they should have /French/ accents.
Unless they are parodying the French, which I
admit is fairly simple to do.  Hi Sylvain!

Shoot, even the guys who drew/wrote Asterix were
/Belgian/.  I'd make a case that the characters
should speak with a Belgian accent, insofar as
they should speak with one at all.

rip
-- 
Did I just use 'insofar' in a serious context?
Somebody slap me.

>--- David Pengelley <wolf@icenet.com.au> wrote:
>-snip- 
>> Pronunciations and accents are just one of those
>> things when it comes to
>> reading. I recall years ago when I first saw an
>> Asterix cartoon, being
>> shocked that all the indomitable gauls had French
>> accents. I'd never
>> given them french accents when reading the books and
>> it seemed
>> incredibly out of place. It's not like I ever gave
>> them French accents
>> after seeing that though, I just couldn't do that to
>> myself (no offence
>> to the french on the list, but the gauls having
>> aussie accents is much
>> easier)
>-snip-
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better
>http://health.yahoo.com



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Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 01:20:08 -0700
Subject: Re: question for Mr. Feist
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Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 01:20:08 -0700
Subject: Re: question for Mr. Feist
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
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On Sunday, July 28, 2002, at 03:27 PM, coweater@alphalink.com.au wrote:

>
> Joel & Ray,
>
> I can understand not wanting to spend personnel time reading fantasy 
> when you write it for a living. Could there also be a case that you may 
> be influenced more (story lines, characters) if you read current 
> fantasy more? I mean you both have your own worlds which you've created 
> and worked in over a number of years which are distinctly your own, but 
> do fantasy author's sometimes not read other works in there own genre 
> for fear of subconsciously or otherwise adopting someone else's ideas?
> ]

No. Fear has nothing to do with it.

In my case, it's boredom.  Trying to stay fresh is hard enough without 
having to slug through other people's attempts to stay fresh.  
Especially when they fail.

Best, R.E.F.
> ----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.

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> You're beeing funny, right?  "The Gauls were French".

He is. 

> Um.  The Gaulois were from Gaul.  They were Celts.  

Exactly. Now Gaul has become France and Lutece has become Paris.

> Unless they are parodying the French, which I
> admit is fairly simple to do.  Hi Sylvain!

Hi rip. I must admit there is no other people than Englishmen that can
parody French so easily :)

Just saw "The Patriot" with Mel Gibson yesterday. Features somekind of
French parody too. Liked it :)

> Shoot, even the guys who drew/wrote Asterix were
> /Belgian/.  

Uderzo and Goscinny. Goscinny died years ago and now only the drawer
Uderzo's going on alone on the Asterix stories. He's writting the text
alone and he's not as funny has goscinny was, but that's fair anyway.

Syl



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 02:05:50 -0700 (PDT)
From: Chris Vance <pikachu_chris@yahoo.com.sg>
Subject: Re:Asterix,_was_RE:_Rhuagh
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You want British Parody of French...
Just watch reruns of 'allo 'allo
--- Sylvain_Guehl <fenyxkell@demo.xandmail.com> wrote:
> > You're beeing funny, right?  "The Gauls were
> French".
> 
> He is. 
> 
> > Um.  The Gaulois were from Gaul.  They were Celts.
>  
> 
> Exactly. Now Gaul has become France and Lutece has
> become Paris.
> 
> > Unless they are parodying the French, which I
> > admit is fairly simple to do.  Hi Sylvain!
> 
> Hi rip. I must admit there is no other people than
> Englishmen that can parody French so easily :)
> 
> Just saw "The Patriot" with Mel Gibson yesterday.
> Features somekind of French parody too. Liked it :)
> 
> > Shoot, even the guys who drew/wrote Asterix were
> > /Belgian/.  
> 
> Uderzo and Goscinny. Goscinny died years ago and now
> only the drawer Uderzo's going on alone on the
> Asterix stories. He's writting the text alone and
> he's not as funny has goscinny was, but that's fair
> anyway.
> 
> Syl
> 


=====
The Brainless

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better
http://health.yahoo.com



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 02:22:57 -0700 (PDT)
From: Chris Vance <pikachu_chris@yahoo.com.sg>
Subject: Re: question for Mr. Feist
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Kinda like a Gynaecologist at the end of the day......

My sympathies to all professionals who have to face
the same type of work object over and over again. It
must be very monotonous.

CIA
--- Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com> wrote:
> 
> On Sunday, July 28, 2002, at 08:22 AM,
> Gkhd11a@aol.com wrote:
> 
> > In a message dated 7/27/02 10:06:15 PM Central
> Daylight Time,
> > raymond@bittersea.com writes:
> >
> > << On Saturday, July 27, 2002, at 06:55 PM, Adam
> Thornton wrote:
> >
> >>     Do you plan to read any of his stuff in the
> forseeable future ? Or
> >> are you too busy for a while.
> >>
> >
> >  I have no plans to read anything.  I pick up
> things along the way, but
> >  mostly I'm too busy to read anything except for
> research or pleasure,
> >  and I don't read fantasy for pleasure, except in
> a few cases.  Mostly I
> >  like non-fiction.
> >
> >  Best, R.E.F.
> >  ----
> >
> >  Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily
> be explained away by
> >  stupidity. >>
> >
> > Isn't that odd for a writer to say?  I mean, don't
> most writers read as 
> > much
> > as they can, and usually read the most in the area
> they write?
> >
> 
> I have no idea what most writers do.  I can only
> tell you that by the 
> end of the day, I'm sick of words.
> 
> Then again, I write a lot more than most writers.
> 
> Best, R.E.F.
> >
> >
> ----
> 
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be
> explained away by 
> stupidity.
> 


=====
The Brainless

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better
http://health.yahoo.com



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From: Chris Vance <pikachu_chris@yahoo.com.sg>
Subject: Re: Languages of Midkemia
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Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 02:19:50 -0700 (PDT)
From: Chris Vance <pikachu_chris@yahoo.com.sg>
Subject: Re: Languages of Midkemia
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Do dialects like rodezian count?
--- Jason Mulligan <manwe@internode.on.net> wrote:
> I've been toying with running a RPG set in Midkemia.
> Anyway, one of the things 
> I've been looking at is all the languages of
> Midkemia and how they relate. At 
> this stage I'm still trying to compile just a list,
> here's what I have to far:
> 
> Kingdom
> Jal-pur (tongue of the desertmen)
> Keshian
> High Keshian
> Northern Keshian
> Desert Patois 
> Beni
> 
> Anyone interested in helping me compile a more
> complete list?
> 
> 
> --
>  What if the Hokey Pokey *IS* what it's all about?
> 


=====
The Brainless

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better
http://health.yahoo.com



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From: "Donal K. Fellows" <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk>
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In-reply-to: <5.1.0.14.2.20020729083159.024710f8@mail.swindon.wrsec.fr>
	(message from Richard Williamson on Mon, 29 Jul 2002 08:51:12 +0100)
Subject: Re: Asterix, was RE: Rhuagh
References: <000501c234c4$0b2fc6b0$2100a8c0@wolf> <5.1.0.14.2.20020729083159.024710f8@mail.swindon.wrsec.fr>
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Donal K. Fellows" <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Asterix, was RE: Rhuagh
Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 10:58:28 +0100
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Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
> Did I just use 'insofar' in a serious context?
> Somebody slap me.

I think I'll save it for the "forasmuch" that's soon bound to follow...

Donal.
-- 
Donal K. Fellows, Department of Computer Science, University of Manchester, UK.
(work) fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk     Tel: +44-161-275-6137  (preferred email addr.)
(home) donal@ugglan.demon.co.uk  Tel: +44-1274-401017   Mobile: +44-7957-298955
http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~fellowsd/  (Don't quote my .sig; I've seen it before!)



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I would have thought a writers job one of the least monotonous!?
After all......a writer as Ray writes from imagination and that is the
least  boring of human abilities.

Regards
Chris 
"When they discover the center of the universe, a lot of people will be
disappointed to discover they are not it." 
Bernard Bailey
- 
From: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Date: 29 July 2002 10:45:39
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: question for Mr. Feist

>Kinda like a Gynaecologist at the end of the day......

>My sympathies to all professionals who have to face
>the same type of work object over and over again. It
>must be very monotonous.

CIA
--- Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com> wrote:
>

> >
> > I have no plans to read anything. I pick up
> things along the way, but
> > mostly I'm too busy to read anything except for
> research or pleasure,
> > and I don't read fantasy for pleasure, except in
> a few cases. Mostly I
> > like non-fiction.
> >
> > Best, R.E.F.
> > ----
> >
> > Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily
> be explained away by
> > stupidity. >>
> >
> > Isn't that odd for a writer to say? I mean, don't
> most writers read as
> > much
> > as they can, and usually read the most in the area
> they write?
> >
>
> I have no idea what most writers do. I can only
> tell you that by the
> end of the day, I'm sick of words.
>
> Then again, I write a lot more than most writers.
>
> Best, R.E.F.
> >
> >
> ----
>
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be
> explained away by
> stupidity.
>


=====
The Brainless

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better
http://health.yahoo.com

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From: "Donal K. Fellows" <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: question for Mr. Feist
Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 13:59:25 +0100
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"Milamber" <milamber_aka_pug@hotmail.com>
> I would have thought a writers job one of the least monotonous!?

It's a job, and like any other, it must be dull at times.  Good thing
Ray likes doing it.  (I wouldn't do it myself, but then I'm not a
writer in much the same way Ray's not a computer programmer.  <g>)

Donal.
-- 
Donal K. Fellows, Department of Computer Science, University of Manchester, UK.
(work) fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk     Tel: +44-161-275-6137  (preferred email addr.)
(home) donal@ugglan.demon.co.uk  Tel: +44-1274-401017   Mobile: +44-7957-298955
http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~fellowsd/  (Don't quote my .sig; I've seen it before!)



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Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 14:43:11 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: Andrea J Chee <andrea@bloodaxe.com>
Subject: Re: question for Mr. Feist
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In article <3D4536B2.000001.18701@j4a8e8>, Milamber
<milamber_aka_pug@hotmail.com> writes

>I would have thought a writers job one of the least monotonous!?
>
>After all......a writer as Ray writes from imagination and that is the
>least  boring of human abilities.

The writing itself isn't too bad, although it's sometimes not as
exciting as you might think, since it's less a case of letting one's
imagination run wild and more of organising ideas and crafting the words
to match. Anyway, once you've been imagining the same thing for ages,
you rather want to imagine something else. The killers, however, are
editing, proofing and rewrites.

Personally, I find that the most tedious bit of all is the non-writing
part of the job - accounts, tax forms, paperwork, meetings and such
like. Probably okay if you like that sort of thing, but not my cup of
tea at all. I have to schedule time in my diary to sit down and do my
business stuff, or I'd never do it. That's one of the reasons that I'm
now getting interested in moving up to book-length, and why I really
appreciate some of my long-term editing jobs - feature/short story-
length work is really a constant cycle of pitching, selling,
negotiating, invoicing and other non-writing tasks, sometimes taking
more of the work time than the writing does.

I doubt there are many jobs that aren't mostly just tedium interspersed
with short periods of excitement.

- ANDREA

-- 
^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^
                  ANDROMEDA - Internet Goddess
<andrea@bloodaxe.com>                    http://www.bloodaxe.com/
Bloodaxe's History Links:   http://www.geocities.com/Athens/5055/
The Loony Bin Archive:               http://www.theloonies.co.uk/



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From: "Greg Bulloch" <somedude1_2000@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Languages of Midkemia
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 00:24:40 +1000
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From: "Greg Bulloch" <somedude1_2000@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Languages of Midkemia
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 00:24:40 +1000
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Yes, It midkemia was created originally as an RPG, that RPG had creators and 
in turn had CopyRight
and the way he spoke of it i assumes it woould b some sort of online thing 
not amungst his friends
every other atempt by a fan to use Rays World has been told No
i see your arguement but it is still using a copyrighted thing weather it be 
copyrighted by Ray or the guys at the Midkemia Press, someone still holds 
the rights and wouldnt be to happy if someone was trying to put a game 
online based in there world
personally i would love to see a midkemia fanfiction network created but its 
never going to happen we can only dream


>From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: Re: Languages of Midkemia
>Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 08:45:17 +0100
>
>At 07:30 29/07/2002, Greg Bulloch spake thusly:
> >RPG? Ray will never let you do it
>
>Actually, there is nothing stopping him from running an RPG
>based on Midkemia.  Midkemia is based on an RPG.  Source
>materials for Midkemia-as-RPG exist.  Therefor, running an
>RPG is no problem.
>
>If he tries to publish additional "source material" for
>Midkemia, then Ray can step in.  If he tries to write
>stories based on his games in Midkemia, then Ray can
>step in.  If he blatantly uses Ray's characters, events
>or histories, then Ray can step in.
>
>If he sets his game on the land, without using any
>of the Ray's characters, then who can tell him no?
>
>Running a game for a few of his friends?  Nobody
>can stop him. It's what parts he chooses to use
>that could cause trouble.
>
>rip
>
>
>
> >>From: JEEPMONSTER69@aol.com
> >>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> >>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> >>Subject: Re: Languages of Midkemia
> >>Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 00:22:23 EDT
> >>
> >>In a message dated 7/28/2002 7:50:47 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> >>manwe@internode.on.net writes:
> >>
> >>
> >>> I've been toying with running a RPG set in Midkemia. Anyway, one of 
>the
> >>> things
> >>> I've been looking at is all the languages of Midkemia and how they 
>relate.
> >>> At
> >>> this stage I'm still trying to compile just a list, here's what I have 
>to
> >>> far:
> >>>
> >>> Kingdom
> >>> Jal-pur (tongue of the desertmen)
> >>> Keshian
> >>> High Keshian
> >>> Northern Keshian
> >>> Desert Patois
> >>> Beni
> >>>
> >>> Anyone interested in helping me compile a more complete list?
> >>>
> >>
> >>Well, you can't forget Natalese, which is related to the language(s) of
> >>Novindus.  Also, any languages from the Eastern Kingdoms, the Keshian
> >>Confederacy, Delkian, Quegan, any languages from cities like Bas-Tyra or
> >>Rodez...There's a lot to be done on that one, but it would be 
>interesting to
> >>see a list.
> >>
> >>                                                 Peace,
> >>                                                             Matt
> >>
> >>"Lets Roll."- Todd Beamer
> >>USA, Muthafacko!
> >
> >
> >_________________________________________________________________
> >Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com




_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com



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From: Jason Mulligan <manwe@internode.on.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 00:42:06 +1000
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On Mon, 29 Jul 2002 08:45:17 +0100, Richard Williamson wrote:
>At 07:30 29/07/2002, Greg Bulloch spake thusly:
>>RPG? Ray will never let you do it
>
>If he sets his game on the land, without using any
>of the Ray's characters, then who can tell him no?
>
>Running a game for a few of his friends?  Nobody
>can stop him. It's what parts he chooses to use
>that could cause trouble.

Yeah. Its only for home use...


--
 What if the Hokey Pokey *IS* what it's all about?



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From: Jason Mulligan <manwe@internode.on.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 00:44:12 +1000
Subject: Re: Languages of Midkemia
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On Mon, 29 Jul 2002 02:19:50 -0700 (PDT), Chris Vance wrote:
>Do dialects like rodezian count?

I guess. Whats it a dialect of?

So far we have:

Kingdom (Kings Tongue)
Armengarian
Natalese
Yabonese

Keshian
High Keshian
Northern Keshian
Jal-pur (tongue of the desertmen)
Desert Patois
Beni

Delkian
Quegan
Rodezian

Pantathian

Ratn'gari

Other:
Ishapian

Ancient Tsurani
Temple Kelewan



--
 What if the Hokey Pokey *IS* what it's all about?



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From: Joel Rosenberg <joelr@ellegon.com>
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On Sunday 28 July 2002 05:27 pm, coweater@alphalink.com.au wrote:
> Joel & Ray,
>
> I can understand not wanting to spend personnel time reading fantasy when
> you write it for a living. Could there also be a case that you may be
> influenced more (story lines, characters) if you read current fantasy
> more? I mean you both have your own worlds which you've created and worked
> in over a number of years which are distinctly your own, but do fantasy
> author's sometimes not read other works in there own genre for fear of
> subconsciously or otherwise adopting someone else's ideas?
>
> Cheers,

I don't speak for Ray, but in my case, sure -- I don't want to have to deal 
with others' stuff when I'm rolling my own.



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From: Gkhd11a@aol.com
Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 11:44:06 EDT
Subject: Re: question for Mr. Feist
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In a message dated 7/29/02 12:31:56 AM Central Daylight Time, 
andrea@bloodaxe.com writes:
>And be prepared for the fact that in 10 years you may well look back at
>much of what you write now, and think how awful it is!

    I know my writing is bad right now (I'd be viewed as an ok amature 
writer), but I think what in my head is very good.  I just haven't worked 
enough at translating what is in my head into words.  And I don't think I 
could ever accept the fact that I can't write fantasy, and if I did, I'd 
quite writing altogether.  I don't know what I would do if I found out I 
couldn't ever be any good at writing fantasy.



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hi all,

Sorry to begin asking questions that I'm sure have been asked enough
already but....:)

I started out by reading Magician a month or two ago on the advice of
a friend.  Well since then I have been ripping through what books my
friend has.  I am on Krondor: The Assassins at the moment.  I know the
next book is Krondor: Tear of the Gods but what follows?

Thanks,

Bryan

 

 



---------------------------------
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better

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From: "James Holden" <james@globalvision.com>
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Subject: RE: New to this list
Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 18:09:34 +0100
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My prefered reading order, I never liked reading krondor series as i
felt it disrupted the flow, but you can choose what ever you like! ;0)
 
 
1 Magician
2 Silverthorn
3 Darkness at sethanon
4 Prince of blood
5 Kings buccaneer
 
6 daughter of the empire
7 servant of the empire
8 mistress of the empire
 
9 Shadow of a dark queen
10 rise of a merchant prince
11 rage of a demon king
12 shards of a broken crown
 
13 krondor: The betrayal
14 krondor: assasins
15 krondor: tear of the gods
 
 
16 legends: honoured enemy
17 legends: murder in lamut
 
soon to come: talons of the silver hawk
 
 -----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of a a
>Sent: 29 July 2002 17:25
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: New to this list
>
>
>
>hi all,
>
>Sorry to begin asking questions that I'm sure have been asked enough
>already but....:) 
>
>I started out by reading Magician a month or two ago on the advice of a
>friend.   Well since then I have been ripping through what books my
>friend has.  I am on  Krondor: The Assassins at the moment.  I know the
>next book is Krondor: Tear of the Gods but what follows?
>
>Thanks,
>
>Bryan
>
> 
>
> 
>
>
>
>
>  _____  
>
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Yahoo! Health <http://health.yahoo.com/>  - Feel better, live better

1, edited,,
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From: "Steve Weghorn" <pelvislives@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: New to this list
Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 14:14:55 -0400
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Hey welcome to the list, you should check out the Feist FAQ, so no one
flames you, but as I am currently drawing a blank on the address I'll
have to let someone else tell you.  As for book order your best bet is
to go to www.crydee.com, John's website has all sorts of interesting
stuff including a complete list of Mr. Feist's books.  Have a good day
and keep on reading I'm sure your going to love all his books.

                                                                 Steve Weghorn


>From: a a <KRONDORSTUFF@YAHOO.COM>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu 
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu 
>Subject: New to this list 
>Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 09:24:43 -0700 (PDT) 
> 
> 
>hi all, 
> 
>Sorry to begin asking questions that I'm sure have been asked enough
>already but....:)
> 
>I started out by reading Magician a month or two ago on the advice of
>a friend. Well since then I have been ripping through what books my
>friend has. I am on Krondor: The Assassins at the moment. I know the
>next book is Krondor: Tear of the Gods but what follows?
> 
>Thanks, 
> 
>Bryan 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>--------------------------------- 
>Do You Yahoo!? 
>Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better 

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Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 12:06:43 -0700 (PDT)
From: a a <krondorstuff@yahoo.com>
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 I guess I should have provided a little more information, sorry.  To
date I have completed:
1 Magician2 Silverthorn3 Darkness at sethanon4 Prince of blood5 Kings
buccaneer 9 Shadow of a dark queen10 rise of a merchant prince11 rage
of a demon king12 shards of a broken crown 13 krondor: The betrayal14
krondor: assasins (currently reading) It seems I have missed the
Empire Series all together.  I wasn't sure if the Krondor series
continued past the Tear of the Gods or if I needed to move on to
another series.  Plus, I have not heard anything about :
16 legends: honoured enemy17 legends: murder in lamut     

>  James Holden <james@globalvision.com> wrote: My prefered reading
>order, I never liked reading krondor series as i felt it disrupted
>the flow, but you can choose what ever you like! ;0) 1 Magician2
>Silverthorn3 Darkness at sethanon4 Prince of blood5 Kings buccaneer 6
>daughter of the empire7 servant of the empire8 mistress of the empire
>9 Shadow of a dark queen10 rise of a merchant prince11 rage of a
>demon king12 shards of a broken crown 13 krondor: The betrayal14
>krondor: assasins15 krondor: tear of the gods 16 legends: honoured
>enemy17 legends: murder in lamut soon to come: talons of the silver
>hawk
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of a a
>>Sent: 29 July 2002 17:25
>>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>>Subject: New to this list
>>
>>
>>hi all,
>>
>>Sorry to begin asking questions that I'm sure have been asked enough already but....:) 
>>
>>I started out by reading Magician a month or two ago on the advice of a friend.   Well since then I have been ripping through what books my friend has.  I am on  Krondor: The Assassins at the moment.  I know the next book is Krondor: Tear of the Gods but what follows?
>>
>>Thanks,
>>
>>Bryan

---------------------------------
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better

1,,
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Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 15:16:30 -0400
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: Sean Fister <sean@hope.kih.net>
Subject: RE: New to this list
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At 03:06 PM 7/29/02, you wrote:

>I guess I should have provided a little more information, sorry.  To date 
>I have completed:
>1 Magician
>2 Silverthorn
>3 Darkness at sethanon
>4 Prince of blood
>5 Kings buccaneer
>
>9 Shadow of a dark queen
>10 rise of a merchant prince
>11 rage of a demon king
>12 shards of a broken crown
>
>13 krondor: The betrayal
>14 krondor: assasins (currently reading)
>
>It seems I have missed the Empire Series all together.  I wasn't sure if 
>the Krondor series continued past the Tear of the Gods or if I needed to 
>move on to another series.  Plus, I have not heard anything about :
>16 legends: honoured enemy
>17 legends: murder in lamut
>
>
>

The Kronodor series will continue past Krondor: Tear of the Gods but not 
until Ray gets around to writing them.  Also you might want to look into 
preordering Talon of the Silver Hawk which comes out in the UK and 
Australia in August.  Unlike the two Legends books listed above it will be 
published in the US, just not until March.  There is also a 20th 
anniversary edition of Magician coming out this year but it is only 
available overseas.  There is a third Legends book coming out is about 
Jimmy the Hand's first adventure.

Also you will want to turn off any html formatting as this is a text-only 
list.

Sean Fister



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*** EOOH ***
From: "Ben Nielson" <ben@hallofworlds.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 14:49:44 -0600
Subject: Re: Languages of Midkemia
Priority: normal
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I believe the Izmalis had a language they used amongst 
themselves as well.  

On 30 Jul 2002, at 0:44, Jason Mulligan wrote:

> On Mon, 29 Jul 2002 02:19:50 -0700 (PDT), Chris Vance wrote:
> >Do dialects like rodezian count?
> 
> I guess. Whats it a dialect of?
> 
> So far we have:
> 
> Kingdom (Kings Tongue)
> Armengarian
> Natalese
> Yabonese
> 
> Keshian
> High Keshian
> Northern Keshian
> Jal-pur (tongue of the desertmen)
> Desert Patois
> Beni
> 
> Delkian
> Quegan
> Rodezian
> 
> Pantathian
> 
> Ratn'gari
> 
> Other:
> Ishapian
> 
> Ancient Tsurani
> Temple Kelewan
> 
> 
> 
> --
>  What if the Hokey Pokey *IS* what it's all about?
> 
> 



-----
Ben Nielson
The Hall of Worlds - http://feist.hallofworlds.net
"If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, riddle them with arrows."



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From: John <john@crydee.com>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 21:01:02 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: John <john@crydee.com>
Subject: Re: New to this list
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Steve Weghorn <pelvislives@hotmail.com> writes
>
>
>
>Hey welcome to the list, you should check out the Feist FAQ, so no one
>flames you, but as I am currently drawing a blank on the address I'll have
>to let someone else tell you.  As for book order your best bet is to go to
>www.crydee.com, John's website has all sorts of interesting stuff including
>a complete list of Mr. Feist's books.  Have a good day and keep on
>reading I'm sure your going to love all his books.
>
>                                                                                  Steve Weghorn
>
The big problem is the site is woefully out of date :(

Love has a lot to answer for. But My lady is on holiday for 2 weeks 
soon, so it will be down to work <G>

BTW Ray, My lady  has just started Magician, I was reading it to her, 
but now she is reading it to me <G>, she is far better than I at reading 
aloud,
In fact if there was ever the need for the book to be put into audio 
format, I believe she would do an excellent job.


......Next we work on the kids <G>
-- 
John

john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.

Raymond E Feist Ring
http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm



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From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Advice for Ray (and Joel)
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From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Advice for Ray (and Joel)
Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 16:31:21 -0400
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Voting for the president of the United Sates is one of the most important 
things an American citizen will do. If they can't figure out a simple ballot 
system, or are too damn lazy to take a minute to read the directions, then I 
don't want their vote to count.

Adieu

Jimmy


>From: Fred Collington <fcolling@yahoo.com>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: Advice for Ray (and Joel)
>Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 10:18:50 -0700 (PDT)
>
>If you ever decide to modernize the political systems
>in your respective worlds, remember:
>
>In democracy, every vote counts.*
>In feudalism, its your count that votes.
>
>*Unless you live in Florida.
>
>OK, I'm going away on vacation now. Back in two weeks,
>so I'm out of range.
>
>Cheers,
>Fred
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better
>http://health.yahoo.com




Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary 
Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
   -- Benjamin Franklin



_________________________________________________________________
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 13:56:47 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dun Xiahou <xiahoudun13@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: question for Mr. Feist
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Sometimes programming.  Of course it depends on both
the nature and business the company you are in belongs
to, as well as the language, etc. of the code you are
working with and writing.  If you are a programer in a
business group, then chances are you have a lot of
tedium.  If you are a programmer in a game company
however, chances are it's all glory and excitement
(but pays terrible).  Just speaking from experience
here.

- Xiahou Dun

> --snip--
> I doubt there are many jobs that aren't mostly just
> tedium interspersed
> with short periods of excitement.
> 
> - ANDREA
> --snip--

__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Autos - Get free new car price quotes
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Subject: Ray in Oz
Cc: Alan.Hargreaves@Sun.COM
From: Alan.Hargreaves@Sun.COM
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 07:49:26 +1000
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I'd been too busy to read my Infinitas newsletter when it arrived. I opened it 
up last night to find the following right up the top:

STOP THE PRESS!! SPECIAL ANNOUNCEMENT!! World famous author Raymond E Feist 
will be visiting Infinitas to sign his latest books, Murder in Lamut and Talon 
of the Silver Hawk on Sunday, 22 September at 2pm. Mark the date in your diary 
and lets have a good turn out for Ray.


See you at Infinitas Ray!


alan.
--
Alan Hargreaves                 Senior Technical Support Specialist
Phone      : +61 2 9844 5379    
Mobile     : +61 416 207 573    Product Technical Support (APAC)
Fax        : +61 2 9418 2143    Sun Microsystems
Call Centre: 1 800 555 786      828 Pacific Highway, Gordon NSW 2072

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From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
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Subject: Re: Languages of Midkemia
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Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 08:10:14 +1000 (GMT+1000)
From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Languages of Midkemia
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

> Yes, It midkemia was created originally as an RPG, that RPG had creators and
> in turn had CopyRight
> and the way he spoke of it i assumes it woould b some sort of online thing
> not amungst his friends
> every other atempt by a fan to use Rays World has been told No
> i see your arguement but it is still using a copyrighted thing weather it be
> copyrighted by Ray or the guys at the Midkemia Press, someone still holds
> the rights and wouldnt be to happy if someone was trying to put a game
> online based in there world
> personally i would love to see a midkemia fanfiction network created but its
> never going to happen we can only dream

While it might be fun to 'play in some one else's backyard', personally,
the idea of 'fan-fiction' does not appeal to me. Why not just use those
creative juices to produce your own, original fiction?


> >From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
> >Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> >To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> >Subject: Re: Languages of Midkemia
> >Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 08:45:17 +0100
> >
> >At 07:30 29/07/2002, Greg Bulloch spake thusly:
> > >RPG? Ray will never let you do it
> >
> >Actually, there is nothing stopping him from running an RPG
> >based on Midkemia.  Midkemia is based on an RPG.  Source
> >materials for Midkemia-as-RPG exist.  Therefor, running an
> >RPG is no problem.
> >
> >If he tries to publish additional "source material" for
> >Midkemia, then Ray can step in.  If he tries to write
> >stories based on his games in Midkemia, then Ray can
> >step in.  If he blatantly uses Ray's characters, events
> >or histories, then Ray can step in.
> >
> >If he sets his game on the land, without using any
> >of the Ray's characters, then who can tell him no?
> >
> >Running a game for a few of his friends?  Nobody
> >can stop him. It's what parts he chooses to use
> >that could cause trouble.
> >
> >rip
> >
> >
> >
> > >>From: JEEPMONSTER69@aol.com
> > >>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > >>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > >>Subject: Re: Languages of Midkemia
> > >>Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 00:22:23 EDT
> > >>
> > >>In a message dated 7/28/2002 7:50:47 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> > >>manwe@internode.on.net writes:
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>> I've been toying with running a RPG set in Midkemia. Anyway, one of
> >the
> > >>> things
> > >>> I've been looking at is all the languages of Midkemia and how they
> >relate.
> > >>> At
> > >>> this stage I'm still trying to compile just a list, here's what I have
> >to
> > >>> far:
> > >>>
> > >>> Kingdom
> > >>> Jal-pur (tongue of the desertmen)
> > >>> Keshian
> > >>> High Keshian
> > >>> Northern Keshian
> > >>> Desert Patois
> > >>> Beni
> > >>>
> > >>> Anyone interested in helping me compile a more complete list?
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >>Well, you can't forget Natalese, which is related to the language(s) of
> > >>Novindus.  Also, any languages from the Eastern Kingdoms, the Keshian
> > >>Confederacy, Delkian, Quegan, any languages from cities like Bas-Tyra or
> > >>Rodez...There's a lot to be done on that one, but it would be
> >interesting to
> > >>see a list.
> > >>
> > >>                                                 Peace,
> > >>                                                             Matt
> > >>
> > >>"Lets Roll."- Todd Beamer
> > >>USA, Muthafacko!
> > >
> > >
> > >_________________________________________________________________
> > >Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com
>
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
>
>

Thanks
Darragh
================================================
msn: iamtheporkfireman@hotmail.com

"Believe or die - thank you O lord for all those
 options" - Bill Hicks.
================================================



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From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Languages of Midkemia
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Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 08:16:33 +1000 (GMT+1000)
From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Languages of Midkemia
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

> On Mon, 29 Jul 2002 02:19:50 -0700 (PDT), Chris Vance wrote:
> >Do dialects like rodezian count?
>
> I guess. Whats it a dialect of?
>
> So far we have:
>
> Kingdom (Kings Tongue)
> Armengarian
> Natalese
> Yabonese
>
> Keshian
> High Keshian
> Northern Keshian
> Jal-pur (tongue of the desertmen)
> Desert Patois
> Beni
>
> Delkian
> Quegan
> Rodezian
>
> Pantathian
>
> Ratn'gari
>
> Other:
> Ishapian
>
> Ancient Tsurani
> Temple Kelewan

I assume that the elves and dwarves have their own 'native' language. As
well as other demi-human races (goblins, giants?).

Which leads me to a question. Would there be an 'old tongue' (so to
speak). For instance, when Tomas and Pug meet and talk to the dreadmaster
[ADaS] (who was placed in the garden by the enemy) I assume the dreadmaster
wouldn't be speaking the most up to date midkemian common tongue? Do we just
assume that Tomas and Pug know the 'older' language (or did I missed something
along the way)

(also, remember, the Tsurani were originally refugee's from Midkemia, and
noting their development of a unique language, I assume that common
Midkemian would have changed a lot in the same time period. Is this
correct Ray?)

Thanks
Darragh
================================================
msn: iamtheporkfireman@hotmail.com

"Believe or die - thank you O lord for all those
 options" - Bill Hicks.
================================================



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Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 08:21:02 +1000 (GMT+1000)
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> hi all,
>
> Sorry to begin asking questions that I'm sure have been asked enough already but....:)
>
> I started out by reading Magician a month or two ago on the advice of a friend.   Well since then I have been ripping through what books my friend has.  I am on  Krondor: The Assassins at the moment.  I know the next book is Krondor: Tear of the Gods but what follows?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bryan

Have you been reading the books in chronological order?

Many people recommend to read the books in this way. However, I personally
recommend reading them in the order they were published.

i.e Magician, Silverthorn, A Darkness at Sethanon, Prince of Blood, Kings
Bucaneer, empire trilogy, serpentwar, legacy, legends

Thanks
Darragh
================================================
msn: iamtheporkfireman@hotmail.com

"Believe or die - thank you O lord for all those
 options" - Bill Hicks.
================================================



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From: "A Irving" <s355156@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Ray in Oz
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 08:54:31 +1000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "A Irving" <s355156@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Ray in Oz
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 08:54:31 +1000
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I am assuming Infinitas is a bookstore, and from your phone number I am
guessing Sydney? (I am not sure where Gordon is).
Ray is here in Brisbane for 2 days, but I have no idea where he will be
signing yet.

CIAO,
         Aaron
 
http://www.hallofworlds.net/kerr/main.php
http://www.nightshadow.co.uk 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]
> On Behalf Of Alan.Hargreaves@Sun.COM
> Sent: Tuesday, 30 July 2002 7:49 AM
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Cc: Alan.Hargreaves@Sun.COM
> Subject: Ray in Oz
> 
> I'd been too busy to read my Infinitas newsletter when it arrived. I
> opened it
> up last night to find the following right up the top:
> 
> STOP THE PRESS!! SPECIAL ANNOUNCEMENT!! World famous author Raymond E
> Feist
> will be visiting Infinitas to sign his latest books, Murder in Lamut and
> Talon
> of the Silver Hawk on Sunday, 22 September at 2pm. Mark the date in your
> diary
> and lets have a good turn out for Ray.
> 
> 
> See you at Infinitas Ray!
> 
> 
> alan.
> --
> Alan Hargreaves                 Senior Technical Support Specialist
> Phone      : +61 2 9844 5379
> Mobile     : +61 416 207 573    Product Technical Support (APAC)
> Fax        : +61 2 9418 2143    Sun Microsystems
> Call Centre: 1 800 555 786      828 Pacific Highway, Gordon NSW 2072
> 
>  /"\
>  \ / ASCII Ribbon Campaign
>   X  Against HTML Mail
>  / \



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From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Chris Vance wrote:
> 
> Kinda like a Gynaecologist at the end of the day......

A rather interesting profession to compare.

Does this run the "seen one, seen 'em all" line of thinking? :)

Craig J. Ries



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Subject: RE: Ray in Oz
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Subject: RE: Ray in Oz
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I assume that this is it.

Infinitas Science Fiction & Fantasy Bookshop
Shop 5, 1 Horwood Place
Parramatta, NSW, 2150
Ph: 9633 5682; Fax: 9891 9264
Open: Mon-Fri 9am-5.30pm; Thu 9am-8pm; Sat 9am-4pm

Tim



>
>"A Irving" <s355156@student.uq.edu.au>@cornell.edu on 07/30/2002 09:54:31
>AM
>
>Please respond to FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>
>Sent by:    owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>
>
>To:    <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
>cc:
>
>Subject:    RE: Ray in Oz
>
>
>I am assuming Infinitas is a bookstore, and from your phone number I am
>guessing Sydney? (I am not sure where Gordon is).
>Ray is here in Brisbane for 2 days, but I have no idea where he will be
>signing yet.
>
>CIAO,
>	  Aaron
>
>http://www.hallofworlds.net/kerr/main.php
>http://www.nightshadow.co.uk
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]
>> On Behalf Of Alan.Hargreaves@Sun.COM
>> Sent: Tuesday, 30 July 2002 7:49 AM
>> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>> Cc: Alan.Hargreaves@Sun.COM
>> Subject: Ray in Oz
>>
>> I'd been too busy to read my Infinitas newsletter when it arrived. I
>> opened it
>> up last night to find the following right up the top:
>>
>> STOP THE PRESS!! SPECIAL ANNOUNCEMENT!! World famous author Raymond E
>> Feist
>> will be visiting Infinitas to sign his latest books, Murder in Lamut
>and
>> Talon
>> of the Silver Hawk on Sunday, 22 September at 2pm. Mark the date in
>your
>> diary
>> and lets have a good turn out for Ray.
>>
>>
>> See you at Infinitas Ray!
>>
>>
>> alan.
>> --
>> Alan Hargreaves                 Senior Technical Support Specialist
>> Phone      : +61 2 9844 5379
>> Mobile     : +61 416 207 573    Product Technical Support (APAC)
>> Fax        : +61 2 9418 2143    Sun Microsystems
>> Call Centre: 1 800 555 786      828 Pacific Highway, Gordon NSW 2072
>>
>>  /"\
>>  \ / ASCII Ribbon Campaign
>>   X  Against HTML Mail
>>  / \
>




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Subject: Re: Ray in Oz
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 10:00:00 +1000
Message-ID: <OF55F063C5.D9D6E3C3-ONCA256C05.008367C5@ap.interfaceinc.com>
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*** EOOH ***
From: tim.plummer@ap.interfaceinc.com
Subject: Re: Ray in Oz
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 10:00:00 +1000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


Ray will be also at Galaxy bookshop (222 Clarence St Sydney) on Sun.
September 22 @ 10am
http://www.galaxybooks.com.au/

Tim



>
>Alan.Hargreaves@Sun.COM@cornell.edu on 07/30/2002 08:49:26 AM
>
>Please respond to FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>
>Sent by:    owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>
>
>To:    FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>cc:    Alan.Hargreaves@Sun.COM
>
>Subject:    Ray in Oz
>
>
>I'd been too busy to read my Infinitas newsletter when it arrived. I opened
>it
>up last night to find the following right up the top:
>
>STOP THE PRESS!! SPECIAL ANNOUNCEMENT!! World famous author Raymond E Feist
>will be visiting Infinitas to sign his latest books, Murder in Lamut and
>Talon
>of the Silver Hawk on Sunday, 22 September at 2pm. Mark the date in your
>diary
>and lets have a good turn out for Ray.
>
>
>See you at Infinitas Ray!
>
>
>alan.
>--
>Alan Hargreaves                 Senior Technical Support Specialist
>Phone      : +61 2 9844 5379
>Mobile     : +61 416 207 573    Product Technical Support (APAC)
>Fax        : +61 2 9418 2143    Sun Microsystems
>Call Centre: 1 800 555 786      828 Pacific Highway, Gordon NSW 2072
>
> /"\
> \ / ASCII Ribbon Campaign
>  X  Against HTML Mail
> / \
>





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Subject: Re: Ray in Oz
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 10:12:51 +1000
From: David Smith <david.m.smith@Sun.COM>
Organization: Sun Microsystems
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:1.0.0) Gecko/20020611
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Ray in Oz
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Yup, that's the one.

-- David

tim.plummer@ap.interfaceinc.com wrote:
> I assume that this is it.
> 
> Infinitas Science Fiction & Fantasy Bookshop
> Shop 5, 1 Horwood Place
> Parramatta, NSW, 2150
> Ph: 9633 5682; Fax: 9891 9264
> Open: Mon-Fri 9am-5.30pm; Thu 9am-8pm; Sat 9am-4pm
> 
> Tim
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "A Irving" <s355156@student.uq.edu.au>@cornell.edu on 07/30/2002 09:54:31
> AM
> 
> Please respond to FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> 
> Sent by:    owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> 
> 
> To:    <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> cc:
> 
> Subject:    RE: Ray in Oz
> 
> 
> I am assuming Infinitas is a bookstore, and from your phone number I am
> guessing Sydney? (I am not sure where Gordon is).
> Ray is here in Brisbane for 2 days, but I have no idea where he will be
> signing yet.
> 
> CIAO,
>          Aaron
> 
> http://www.hallofworlds.net/kerr/main.php
> http://www.nightshadow.co.uk
> 
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> 
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]
> 
>>On Behalf Of Alan.Hargreaves@Sun.COM
>>Sent: Tuesday, 30 July 2002 7:49 AM
>>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>>Cc: Alan.Hargreaves@Sun.COM
>>Subject: Ray in Oz
>>
>>I'd been too busy to read my Infinitas newsletter when it arrived. I
>>opened it
>>up last night to find the following right up the top:
>>
>>STOP THE PRESS!! SPECIAL ANNOUNCEMENT!! World famous author Raymond E
>>Feist
>>will be visiting Infinitas to sign his latest books, Murder in Lamut
> 
> and
> 
>>Talon
>>of the Silver Hawk on Sunday, 22 September at 2pm. Mark the date in
> 
> your
> 
>>diary
>>and lets have a good turn out for Ray.
>>
>>
>>See you at Infinitas Ray!
>>
>>
>>alan.
>>--
>>Alan Hargreaves                 Senior Technical Support Specialist
>>Phone      : +61 2 9844 5379
>>Mobile     : +61 416 207 573    Product Technical Support (APAC)
>>Fax        : +61 2 9418 2143    Sun Microsystems
>>Call Centre: 1 800 555 786      828 Pacific Highway, Gordon NSW 2072
>>
>> /"\
>> \ / ASCII Ribbon Campaign
>>  X  Against HTML Mail
>> / \
> 
> 
> 
> 



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*** EOOH ***
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Subject: RE: Ray in Oz
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From: "Green, Brendan" <Brendan.Green@baycorpadvantage.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I just saw this on the Angus & Robinson site

Raymond E. Feist will be signing copies of Talon of the Silver Hawk at our stores in:-
Fremantle (WA) 120 High Street, Fremantle on Wednesday 18 September, at 12.30pm. Enquiries (08) 9430 5040. 
Sydney, 168 Pitt Street on Monday 23rd September at 11.00am. Enquiries (02) 9235 1188.

>-----Original Message-----
>From: tim.plummer@ap.interfaceinc.com
>[mailto:tim.plummer@ap.interfaceinc.com]
>Sent: Tuesday, 30 July 2002 10:00
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: Re: Ray in Oz
>
>
>
>Ray will be also at Galaxy bookshop (222 Clarence St Sydney) on Sun.
>September 22 @ 10am
>http://www.galaxybooks.com.au/
>
>Tim
>
>
>
>
>Alan.Hargreaves@Sun.COM@cornell.edu on 07/30/2002 08:49:26 AM
>
>Please respond to FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>
>Sent by:    owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>
>
>To:    FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>cc:    Alan.Hargreaves@Sun.COM
>
>Subject:    Ray in Oz
>
>
>I'd been too busy to read my Infinitas newsletter when it arrived. I opened
>it
>up last night to find the following right up the top:
>
>STOP THE PRESS!! SPECIAL ANNOUNCEMENT!! World famous author Raymond E Feist
>will be visiting Infinitas to sign his latest books, Murder in Lamut and
>Talon
>of the Silver Hawk on Sunday, 22 September at 2pm. Mark the date in your
>diary
>and lets have a good turn out for Ray.
>
>
>See you at Infinitas Ray!
>
>
>alan.
>--
>Alan Hargreaves                 Senior Technical Support Specialist
>Phone      : +61 2 9844 5379
>Mobile     : +61 416 207 573    Product Technical Support (APAC)
>Fax        : +61 2 9418 2143    Sun Microsystems
>Call Centre: 1 800 555 786      828 Pacific Highway, Gordon NSW 2072
>
> /"\
> \ / ASCII Ribbon Campaign
>  X  Against HTML Mail
> / \

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From: "Rhyaeth" <vaeyn@hotmail.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Mr Feist, maybe you could tell us?
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 14:35:41 +1000
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From: "Rhyaeth" <vaeyn@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Mr Feist, maybe you could tell us?
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 14:35:41 +1000
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What the locations are for your signings in Aus? Not all of them, of
course. Just a few more than the ones that have already been stated on
this list. I've searched all the sites I possibly can for some more
locations, to no avail.

Any tiny bit of information you could share would obviously be great,
but of course if you don't have the locations either, then sorry to
bother. =)

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Subject: Re: Mr Feist, maybe you could tell us?
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 22:06:59 -0700
Subject: Re: Mr Feist, maybe you could tell us?
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On Monday, July 29, 2002, at 09:35 PM, Rhyaeth wrote:

> What the locations are for your signings in Aus? Not all of them, of 
> course. Just a few more than the ones that have already been stated on 
> this list. I've searched all the sites I possibly can for some more 
> locations, to no avail.
>  
> Any tiny bit of information you could share would obviously be great, 
> but of course if you don't have the locations either, then sorry to 
> bother. =)
>
>

I will post the complete list when it is finalized.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.

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	from Dun Xiahou on Mon, 29 Jul 2002 13:56:47 -0700 (PDT))
Subject: Re: question for Mr. Feist
References:  <20020729205647.66830.qmail@web10411.mail.yahoo.com>
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Donal K. Fellows" <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: question for Mr. Feist
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 09:56:58 +0100
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Dun Xiahou <xiahoudun13@yahoo.com>
> Sometimes programming.  Of course it depends on both the nature and
> business the company you are in belongs to, as well as the language,
> etc. of the code you are working with and writing.  If you are a
> programer in a business group, then chances are you have a lot of
> tedium.  If you are a programmer in a game company however, chances
> are it's all glory and excitement (but pays terrible).  Just
> speaking from experience here.

IME, even when working on things I love it can be ultra-frustrating.
I'm just glad that I'm doing something I love because otherwise it
wouldn't be worth the amount of effort required to get things working.
Let's face it, life's pretty much defined to be full of frustration,
but those of us who are lucky get to be frustrated doing something we
like instead of something we hate.

Donal.
-- 
Donal K. Fellows, Department of Computer Science, University of Manchester, UK.
(work) fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk     Tel: +44-161-275-6137  (preferred email addr.)
(home) donal@ugglan.demon.co.uk  Tel: +44-1274-401017   Mobile: +44-7957-298955
http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~fellowsd/  (Don't quote my .sig; I've seen it before!)



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From: "Rachel Unwin" <jeddasw@hotmail.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Ray in Oz
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 19:00:59 +1000
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Hey all!!!
You're probably going to all go off your heads at me, and I am
prepared for that, but need to know where I can find tour dates for
NSW, Australia.  Have looked in Crydee.com and nothing is shown there
in regards to Australia...would someone be able to direct me to a
place where I could find the dates or just tell me what they are...

Regards, Rachel



"There is no spoon"

>----- Original Message -----
>From: David Smith
>Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 10:44 AM
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: Re: Ray in Oz
>  
>Yup, that's the one.
>
>-- David
>
>tim.plummer@ap.interfaceinc.com wrote:
>> I assume that this is it.
>>
>> Infinitas Science Fiction & Fantasy Bookshop
>> Shop 5, 1 Horwood Place
>> Parramatta, NSW, 2150
>> Ph: 9633 5682; Fax: 9891 9264
>> Open: Mon-Fri 9am-5.30pm; Thu 9am-8pm; Sat 9am-4pm
>>
>> Tim
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> "A Irving" <s355156@student.uq.edu.au>@cornell.edu on 07/30/2002 09:54:31
>> AM
>>
>> Please respond to FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>>
>> Sent by:    owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>>
>>
>> To:    <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
>> cc:
>>
>> Subject:    RE: Ray in Oz
>>
>>
>> I am assuming Infinitas is a bookstore, and from your phone number I am
>> guessing Sydney? (I am not sure where Gordon is).
>> Ray is here in Brisbane for 2 days, but I have no idea where he will be
>> signing yet.
>>
>> CIAO,
>>          Aaron
>>
>> http://www.hallofworlds.net/kerr/main.php
>> http://www.nightshadow.co.uk
>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>>
>> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]
>>
>>>On Behalf Of Alan.Hargreaves@Sun.COM
>>>Sent: Tuesday, 30 July 2002 7:49 AM
>>>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>>>Cc: Alan.Hargreaves@Sun.COM
>>>Subject: Ray in Oz
>>>
>>>I'd been too busy to read my Infinitas newsletter when it arrived. I
>>>opened it
>>>up last night to find the following right up the top:
>>>
>>>STOP THE PRESS!! SPECIAL ANNOUNCEMENT!! World famous author Raymond E
>>>Feist
>>>will be visiting Infinitas to sign his latest books, Murder in Lamut
>>
>> and
>>
>>>Talon
>>>of the Silver Hawk on Sunday, 22 September at 2pm. Mark the date in
>>
>> your
>>
>>>diary
>>>and lets have a good turn out for Ray.
>>>
>>>
>>>See you at Infinitas Ray!
>>>
>>>
>>>alan.
>>>--
>>>Alan Hargreaves                 Senior Technical Support Specialist
>>>Phone      : +61 2 9844 5379
>>>Mobile     : +61 416 207 573    Product Technical Support (APAC)
>>>Fax        : +61 2 9418 2143    Sun Microsystems
>>>Call Centre: 1 800 555 786      828 Pacific Highway, Gordon NSW 2072
>>>
>>> /"\
>>> \ / ASCII Ribbon Campaign
>>>  X  Against HTML Mail
>>> / \
>>
>>
>>
>>Get more from the Web.  FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com

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From: Paul Atkinson <paul.atkinson@isntv.co.uk>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: The Jigsaw Lady
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 10:19:48 +0100
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*** EOOH ***
From: Paul Atkinson <paul.atkinson@isntv.co.uk>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: The Jigsaw Lady
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 10:19:48 +0100
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

If you dont mind which five are under contract at the moment....

>-----Original Message-----
>From: Raymond Feist [mailto:raymond@bittersea.com]
>Sent: Friday, July 26, 2002 2:11 PM
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: Re: The Jigsaw Lady
>
>
>
>On Friday, July 26, 2002, at 05:36 AM, M Chaloner wrote:
>
>> I know you've got a lot on at the moment (and you probably don't have a
>> great deal of spare time to write for your own personal pleasure) - but
>> have you started The Jigsaw Lady yet? Can we expect it *before* you
>> shuffle off this mortal coil? <grins>
>>
>> Mark ;-)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>Have I started it yet?
>
>Only in my head, as I have been "writing" it there for the last 10 
>years.  But no, I haven't put a word on computer disk yet.  The five 
>books I have under contract are taking up most of my time.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
>stupidity.
>

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Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 03:02:45 -0700 (PDT)
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Actually if we talk about chronological than we have
to intersperse the empire trilogy within magician,
silverthorn and a darkness in sethanon.

--- Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au> wrote:
> > hi all,
> >
> > Sorry to begin asking questions that I'm sure have
> been asked enough already but....:)
> >
> > I started out by reading Magician a month or two
> ago on the advice of a friend.   Well since then I
> have been ripping through what books my friend has. 
> I am on  Krondor: The Assassins at the moment.  I
> know the next book is Krondor: Tear of the Gods but
> what follows?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Bryan
> 
> Have you been reading the books in chronological
> order?
> 
> Many people recommend to read the books in this way.
> However, I personally
> recommend reading them in the order they were
> published.
> 
> i.e Magician, Silverthorn, A Darkness at Sethanon,
> Prince of Blood, Kings
> Bucaneer, empire trilogy, serpentwar, legacy,
> legends
> 
> Thanks
> Darragh
> ================================================
> msn: iamtheporkfireman@hotmail.com
> 
> "Believe or die - thank you O lord for all those
>  options" - Bill Hicks.
> ================================================
> 


=====
The Brainless

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better
http://health.yahoo.com



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 03:04:43 -0700 (PDT)
From: Chris Vance <pikachu_chris@yahoo.com.sg>
Subject: Re: question for Mr. Feist
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No this line of thinking is more of a "can't think of
doing it at the end of the day thing." :)
--- "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net> wrote:
> Chris Vance wrote:
> > 
> > Kinda like a Gynaecologist at the end of the
> day......
> 
> A rather interesting profession to compare.
> 
> Does this run the "seen one, seen 'em all" line of
> thinking? :)
> 
> Craig J. Ries
> 


=====
The Brainless

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better
http://health.yahoo.com



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*** EOOH ***
From: "Donal K. Fellows" <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Ray in Oz
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 11:14:15 +0100
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"Rachel Unwin" <jeddasw@hotmail.com>
> You're probably going to all go off your heads at me, and I am
> prepared for that, but need to know where I can find tour dates for
> NSW, Australia.  Have looked in Crydee.com and nothing is shown there
> in regards to Australia...would someone be able to direct me to a
> place where I could find the dates or just tell me what they are...

We don't yet have complete info.  Such as I'm aware of is at
  http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~fellowsd/REF/#events

Keep reading the list, and you'll probably find out about the final
list of places before I can get them up on my site!  <g>

Donal.
-- 
Donal K. Fellows, Department of Computer Science, University of Manchester, UK.
(work) fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk     Tel: +44-161-275-6137  (preferred email addr.)
(home) donal@ugglan.demon.co.uk  Tel: +44-1274-401017   Mobile: +44-7957-298955
http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~fellowsd/  (Don't quote my .sig; I've seen it before!)



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 04:08:06 -0700
Subject: Re: The Jigsaw Lady
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
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On Tuesday, July 30, 2002, at 02:19 AM, Paul Atkinson wrote:

> If you dont mind which five are under contract at the moment....
>

King of Foxes, Jimmy the Hand, three unnamed.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Subject: New Question for Ray.....
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*** EOOH ***
From: Paul Atkinson <paul.atkinson@isntv.co.uk>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: New Question for Ray.....
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 14:07:14 +0100
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Ray

Of all the work you've done on the Riftwar series et al.  is there any one
passage/paragraph that you particularly like/ are proud of....

Regards
Paul


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Reading Honoured Enemy some weeks ago I found myself placing it also intertwined
in the story of Magician.

As for my own reading order, I never quite got around to read the Empire series
(in the correct chronological order) until recently so i've read the books in
the order of Magician, Silverthorn, DaS, PotB, King's Buccaneer, then the
Serpentwar saga followed by the Riftwar series with Betrayal, Assassins, Tear of
the Gods, and now to the point where i've read Honoured Enemy and am now reading
the 2nd book of the Empire trilogy. What I like quite a lot is that it seems all
the books apart from the original Riftwar Saga (Mag, Silver, Das) can be read
independent of each other for the most part as long as you've read the Riftwar
saga. That way you can always anchor yourself to some "lighthouses" throughout
the stories that help you relate events, characters, plots, etc. across the
stories in the books.


(POTENTIALLY SPOILER IF HAVEN'T READ THE EMPIRE TRILOGY)
And you're right about the Empire Trilogy, seeing as some familiar characters (a
certain magician and a lute-player) do show up at a point to talk to a certain
Midkemian in Mara's household... although very brief, you would have to have
read Magician to take some pleasure from that scene.


All the best,

Trym

Quoting Chris Vance <pikachu_chris@yahoo.com.sg>:
> Actually if we talk about chronological than we have
> to intersperse the empire trilogy within magician,
> silverthorn and a darkness in sethanon.
> 
> --- Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au> wrote:
> > > I started out by reading Magician a month or two
> > ago on the advice of a friend.   Well since then I
> > have been ripping through what books my friend has. 
> > I am on  Krondor: The Assassins at the moment.  I
> > know the next book is Krondor: Tear of the Gods but
> > what follows?
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > Bryan

------------------------------------------------------------
Få din egen @start.no-adresse gratis på http://www.start.no/



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We call it The Hokey Cokey here :-)
Regards
Chris
--
What if the Hokey Pokey *IS* what it's all about?

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From: "James Holden" <james@globalvision.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: New to this list
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 14:55:12 +0100
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Some small things in the legacy and legends books can only be understood
if you’ve read everything else.  Legends talks about borrick and co in
the battle field talking about dennis.

-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of trym asserson
>Sent: 30 July 2002 13:46
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: Re: New to this list
>
>
>Reading Honoured Enemy some weeks ago I found myself placing it also
>intertwined in the story of Magician.
>
>As for my own reading order, I never quite got around to read the Empire
>series (in the correct chronological order) until recently so i've read
>the books in the order of Magician, Silverthorn, DaS, PotB, King's
>Buccaneer, then the Serpentwar saga followed by the Riftwar series with
>Betrayal, Assassins, Tear of the Gods, and now to the point where i've
>read Honoured Enemy and am now reading the 2nd book of the Empire
>trilogy. What I like quite a lot is that it seems all the books apart
>from the original Riftwar Saga (Mag, Silver, Das) can be read
>independent of each other for the most part as long as you've read the
>Riftwar saga. That way you can always anchor yourself to some
>"lighthouses" throughout the stories that help you relate events,
>characters, plots, etc. across the stories in the books.
>
>
>(POTENTIALLY SPOILER IF HAVEN'T READ THE EMPIRE TRILOGY)
>And you're right about the Empire Trilogy, seeing as some familiar
>characters (a certain magician and a lute-player) do show up at a point
>to talk to a certain Midkemian in Mara's household... although very
>brief, you would have to have read Magician to take some pleasure from
>that scene.
>
>
>All the best,
>
>Trym
>
>Quoting Chris Vance <pikachu_chris@yahoo.com.sg>:
>> Actually if we talk about chronological than we have
>> to intersperse the empire trilogy within magician, silverthorn and a 
>> darkness in sethanon.
>> 
>> --- Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au> wrote:
>> > > I started out by reading Magician a month or two
>> > ago on the advice of a friend.   Well since then I
>> > have been ripping through what books my friend has.
>> > I am on  Krondor: The Assassins at the moment.  I
>> > know the next book is Krondor: Tear of the Gods but
>> > what follows?
>> > >
>> > > Thanks,
>> > >
>> > > Bryan
>
>------------------------------------------------------------
>Få din egen @start.no-adresse gratis på http://www.start.no/
>


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*** EOOH ***
From: "Jeffrey S. Howell" <jhowell@paonline.com>
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Subject: Quick Refresher on how to unsubscribe
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Could someone please send me the syntax to unsubscribe from the list?

Thanks,

Jeff Howell



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 10:51:45 -0700 (PDT)
From: Ben <volsballa34@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Quick Refresher on how to unsubscribe
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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********** HOW TO GET OFF THE LIST **********

To sign off from the list, email to listproc@cornell.edu with the 
following 
request:

			unsubscribe FEISTFANS-L
or
			signoff FEISTFANS-L

 "Jeffrey S. Howell" wrote:
>Could someone please send me the syntax to unsubscribe from the list?
>
>Thanks,
>
>Jeff Howell
>


---------------------------------
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From: Smoking88@aol.com
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 19:53:39 EDT
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what i like about rays books is that it doesn't matter what series youstart 
with.  i personally started with betrayal ten fell in lovw with rays writing 
so i went to magician, then silverthorn, then darkness.  afterwards i read 
assasins then tear of the gods and am now almost finished with shards to 
conclude the serpentwar.  i am still hooked and wanting more.
joe

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I started reading the Serpentwar saga not realizing he had even
written other books

-----Original Message-----
>From: Smoking88@aol.com [mailto:Smoking88@aol.com]
>Sent: Wednesday, 31 July 2002 09:54
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: Re: New to this list
>
>what i like about rays books is that it doesn't matter what series
>youstart with.  i personally started with betrayal ten fell in lovw
>with rays writing so i went to magician, then silverthorn, then
>darkness.  afterwards i read assasins then tear of the gods and am
>now almost finished with shards to conclude the serpentwar.  i am
>still hooked and wanting more.
>joe 
>

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From: "Michael Connolly" <data3@dodo.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Regarding Talon of the Silver Hawk
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 12:28:39 +1000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Michael Connolly" <data3@dodo.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Regarding Talon of the Silver Hawk
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 12:28:39 +1000
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Hi all,

Im fairly new to this list but I find the information available
fascinating already. A question for Mr Feist...
I have read the excerpt from 'Talon' on the voyageronline website, and
was curious as to whether the main character in the first chapter is
featured heavily throughout the book, or is he just a small figure
against a larger backdrop of what happens? Also, roughly how long
after the events of Shards is this story set?
Sorry if I'm asking stuff thats already been answered, but I'm just
curious thats all.

Thanx,

Michael

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In a message dated 7/30/2002 9:11:45 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
Brendan.Green@baycorpadvantage.com writes:


> I started reading the Serpentwar saga not realizing he had even written 
> other books
> 

Don't feel bad...I jumped into the Serpentwar saga with ROAMP.  My forst 
question was "Who in the hell is Roo?"<g>


                                           Peace,
                                                 Matt
"This is not Nam. There are rules here."- Walter Sobchak

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From: Chris Vance <pikachu_chris@yahoo.com.sg>
Subject: Re: New Question for Ray.....
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 21:26:49 -0700 (PDT)
From: Chris Vance <pikachu_chris@yahoo.com.sg>
Subject: Re: New Question for Ray.....
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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I feel that Ray's best passage was the Nakor Litany on
why magicians are useless in a battle.

"First Magician has a trick. Second Magician counters
First Magician's trick. Third Magician counters second
magician's counter. And while all the magicians are
busy, the army comes in and chops up  the magicians."

The above passage is probably incorrect because I am
typing it out from memory. 

What do you think Ray
--- Paul Atkinson <paul.atkinson@isntv.co.uk> wrote:
> Ray
> 
> Of all the work you've done on the Riftwar series et
> al.  is there any one
> passage/paragraph that you particularly like/ are
> proud of....
> 
> Regards
> Paul
> 
> 
>
**********************************************************************
> 
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=====
The Brainless

__________________________________________________
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I still think that the serpentwar saga was the best
and in the new books Ray is Erik & Roo in them?

>-----Original Message-----
>From: JEEPMONSTER69@aol.com [mailto:JEEPMONSTER69@aol.com]
>Sent: Wednesday, 31 July 2002 14:15
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: Re: New to this list
>
>
>In a message dated 7/30/2002 9:11:45 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Brendan.Green@baycorpadvantage.com writes: 
>
>
>
>I started reading the Serpentwar saga not realizing he had even written other books 
>
>
>
>Don't feel bad...I jumped into the Serpentwar saga with ROAMP.  My forst question was "Who in the hell is Roo?"<g> 
>
>
>					   Peace, 
>						 Matt 
>"This is not Nam. There are rules here."- Walter Sobchak 

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Subject: RE: New Question for Ray.....
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 14:53:31 +1000
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From: "Green, Brendan" <Brendan.Green@baycorpadvantage.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
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I did laugh when I read that

-----Original Message-----
>From: Chris Vance [mailto:pikachu_chris@yahoo.com.sg]
>Sent: Wednesday, 31 July 2002 14:27
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: Re: New Question for Ray.....
>
>
>I feel that Ray's best passage was the Nakor Litany on
>why magicians are useless in a battle.
>
>"First Magician has a trick. Second Magician counters
>First Magician's trick. Third Magician counters second
>magician's counter. And while all the magicians are
>busy, the army comes in and chops up  the magicians."
>
>The above passage is probably incorrect because I am
>typing it out from memory. 
>
>What do you think Ray
>--- Paul Atkinson <paul.atkinson@isntv.co.uk> wrote:
>> Ray
>> 
>> Of all the work you've done on the Riftwar series et
>> al.  is there any one
>> passage/paragraph that you particularly like/ are
>> proud of....
>> 
>> Regards
>> Paul
>> 
>> 
>>
>**********************************************************************
>> 
>> This email and any files transmitted with it are
>> confidential and intended solely for the use of the
>> addressee.   If you have received this email in
>> error you may not disclose, copy, distribute or act
>> upon its contents without the author's prior written
>> consent.   Please can you notify the system manager
>> postmaster@lnn-tv.co.uk immediately and delete this
>> email.
>> 
>> Any views or opinions expressed are those of the
>> author and do not necessarily represent those of
>> London News Network Ltd.
>> 
>> This footnote also confirms that this email message
>> has been swept for the presence of computer viruses.
>>   No responsibility can be accepted in the event
>> that a virus is contained within it or any
>> attachments.
>> 
>> London News Network Ltd (Registered no 2631359)
>> Registered office:  The London Television Centre,
>> London SE1 9LT
>> 
>
>
>=====
>The Brainless
>
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better
http://health.yahoo.com

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i think some1 already asked him bout roo and he said there will b no more 
about them except they wil b really old or dead in concave or something

>From: "Green, Brendan" <Brendan.Green@baycorpadvantage.com>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
>Subject: RE: New to this list
>Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 14:44:01 +1000
>
>I still think that the serpentwar saga was the best
>and in the new books Ray is Erik & Roo in them?
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: JEEPMONSTER69@aol.com [mailto:JEEPMONSTER69@aol.com]
>Sent: Wednesday, 31 July 2002 14:15
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: Re: New to this list
>
>
>In a message dated 7/30/2002 9:11:45 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
>Brendan.Green@baycorpadvantage.com writes:
>
>
>
>I started reading the Serpentwar saga not realizing he had even written 
>other books
>
>
>
>Don't feel bad...I jumped into the Serpentwar saga with ROAMP.  My forst 
>question was "Who in the hell is Roo?"<g>
>
>
>                                           Peace,
>                                                 Matt
>"This is not Nam. There are rules here."- Walter Sobchak
><< Disclaimer.txt >>


_________________________________________________________________
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Subject: Couple of pointers (Was Re: New to this list)
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From: "James Barker" <heechee@softhome.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Couple of pointers (Was Re: New to this list)
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 17:59:09 +1000
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Greg Bulloch" <somedude1_2000@hotmail.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2002 3:48 PM
Subject: RE: New to this list


>
> i think some1 already asked him bout roo and he said there will b no more
> about them except they wil b really old or dead in concave or something

I haven't been posting much lately, but I feel I should just mention this...

Just a reminder to those new to the list: this list is international. As
such, we have plenty of people who don't speak English as a first language,
who aren't too fluent, etc, etc. We also have people who just plain don't
like bastardising the language (say hello, Rip!).

For that reason, it's a general rule of the list that we avoid using
internet slang, including using letters in place of words, numbers in place
of syllables, stuff like that. u mite b a hard-kore sk8er, or perhaps a very
w00t, l33t-flu3nt g33k, and that's great for when you're trading SMSs with
your crew about some sick new variant of the Olly Nosebone or whatever, or
if you're busy r0x0ring some n00b'5 b0x3rs in CS -- but on this list, try
and keep it to plain, dictionary english. You can get away with smilies and
things like *G*, *BG*, and so on, though. ;)

Also try and get your grammar, punctuation and spelling right (that said, I
know I'll make at least one mistake of each in this letter -- bloody
Murphy). It doesn't take that long, and it can make it a whole heap easier
for the guy from Eastern Carpetstain or wherever who's trying to learn
English in a fairly pure form.

Lastly, try and keep everything in plain text format -- no HTML. Strange as
it may seem, some people still use email clients that don't interpret HTML
codes, and end up with a lot of gibberish to wade through. Tends to make
them cranky. :)

Cheers,
James



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Subject: Re: Languages of Midkemia
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 18:02:50 +1000
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From: "James Barker" <heechee@softhome.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Languages of Midkemia
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 18:02:50 +1000
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Jason Mulligan" <manwe@internode.on.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 12:44 AM
Subject: Re: Languages of Midkemia


*snip*

I'm amazed that no-one has mentioned Isalani yet... Or Elven, in it's many
variants (Eledhel, moredhel, Jeshandi, etc.). Don't forget Brijaner (I
think), and of course Roldem and Olaskan... And what language does Talon
speak?

Fact is, the potential for languages in Midkemia is pretty damn huge --
Tolkien could have much fun. :)

Cheers,
James



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Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 01:16:22 -0700
Subject: Re: Regarding Talon of the Silver Hawk
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 01:16:22 -0700
Subject: Re: Regarding Talon of the Silver Hawk
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On Tuesday, July 30, 2002, at 07:28 PM, Michael Connolly wrote:

> Hi all,
>  
> Im fairly new to this list but I find the information available 
> fascinating already. A question for Mr Feist...
> I have read the excerpt from 'Talon' on the voyageronline website, and 
> was curious as to whether the main character in the first chapter is 
> featured heavily throughout the book, or is he just a small figure 
> against a larger backdrop of what happens? Also, roughly how long after 
> the events of Shards is this story set?
> Sorry if I'm asking stuff thats already been answered, but I'm just 
> curious thats all.
>

The main character is Talon, the title character, so you should be able 
to figure he's going to be central to the story.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.

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From: "James Holden" <james@globalvision.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: New to this list
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 09:27:40 +0100
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That's a shame, I would of liked to have seen what roo would have done.
I thought ROAMP was one of the best ive read, incorporating finance and
business into fantasy was very clever and well done.

-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Greg Bulloch
>Sent: 31 July 2002 06:49
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: RE: New to this list
>
>
>
>i think some1 already asked him bout roo and he said there will b no
>more 
>about them except they wil b really old or dead in concave or something
>
>>From: "Green, Brendan" <Brendan.Green@baycorpadvantage.com>
>>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>>To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
>>Subject: RE: New to this list
>>Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 14:44:01 +1000
>>
>>I still think that the serpentwar saga was the best
>>and in the new books Ray is Erik & Roo in them?
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: JEEPMONSTER69@aol.com [mailto:JEEPMONSTER69@aol.com]
>>Sent: Wednesday, 31 July 2002 14:15
>>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>>Subject: Re: New to this list
>>
>>
>>In a message dated 7/30/2002 9:11:45 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
>>Brendan.Green@baycorpadvantage.com writes:
>>
>>
>>
>>I started reading the Serpentwar saga not realizing he had even written
>>other books
>>
>>
>>
>>Don't feel bad...I jumped into the Serpentwar saga with ROAMP.  My 
>>forst
>>question was "Who in the hell is Roo?"<g>
>>
>>
>>                                           Peace,
>>                                                 Matt
>>"This is not Nam. There are rules here."- Walter Sobchak
>><< Disclaimer.txt >>
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
>http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
>


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Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 09:47:00 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: Couple of pointers (Was Re: New to this list)
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At 08:59 31/07/2002, James Barker spake thusly:
>At 3:48 PM on Wednesday, July 31, 2002, Greg Bulloch showed why
>he shouldn't be allowed out in his pajamas, saying:
>>
>> i think some1 already asked him bout roo and he said there will b no more
>> about them except they wil b really old or dead in concave or something
>
>I haven't been posting much lately, but I feel I should just mention this...
>
>Just a reminder to those new to the list: this list is international. As
>such, we have plenty of people who don't speak English as a first language,
>who aren't too fluent, etc, etc. We also have people who just plain don't
>like bastardising the language (say hello, Rip!).

That's hardly fair.  I had just bypassed his post (rather
than read-and-delete), in preparation for giving him what
for in the very near future.  Say, just after I finished
reading all my in-box.  

Then you go and spoil it by getting there first.  plplplpl. 

>Also try and get your grammar, punctuation and spelling right (that said, I
>know I'll make at least one mistake of each in this letter -- bloody
>Murphy). It doesn't take that long, and it can make it a whole heap easier
>for the guy from Eastern Carpetstain or wherever who's trying to learn
>English in a fairly pure form.

Like Uxbridge, for example.  (apologies to anyone who might 
take offense.  Uxbridge is a wonderful place.  Honest.  I've 
driven by it hundreds of times.)

>Lastly, try and keep everything in plain text format -- no HTML. Strange as
>it may seem, some people still use email clients that don't interpret HTML
>codes, and end up with a lot of gibberish to wade through. Tends to make
>them cranky. :)

If they even bother reading the post to its end.  I know when
I'm in fallback mode (You know.  When Windows crashes* and you
have to resort to elm in a csh terminal?), I will happily just
delete-and-continue rather than bother reading a post that
has been html'd.  Life's too short.

And if you think about it, that is really the worst thing for
a poster.  If you didn't think it was important, you wouldn't
have posted.  To be dismissed out of hand simply because you
didn't turn off the html, well...Sucks to be you**, don't it.

rip
-- 
* Just yesterday, I clicked the reply button in Eudora, and the CD-ROM
player spun up and started playing the Alanis Morissette CD therein.  
Go figure.

** *checks to make sure html is still turned off* ;->



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References: <CC9127CE-A45D-11D6-881F-003065A8A644@bittersea.com>
Subject: Re: Regarding Talon of the Silver Hawk
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 18:55:21 +1000
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From: "Michael Connolly" <data3@dodo.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Regarding Talon of the Silver Hawk
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 18:55:21 +1000
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Thanx Ray,

by the way the first chapter of Talon (from that excerpt) really drew
me in and I was disapointed when it finished :( oh well, not too long
till I can buy it i guess. I'll probably turn up to one of the
booksignings in Sydney, so I'll see you there :)

Michael

>
>
>The main character is Talon, the title character, so you should be
>able to figure he's going to be central to the story.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away
>by stupidity.

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From: Paul Atkinson <paul.atkinson@isntv.co.uk>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: The Jigsaw Lady
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From: Paul Atkinson <paul.atkinson@isntv.co.uk>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: The Jigsaw Lady
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Ray

In which series do the three unnamed come or is that to be decided?

Thanks

Paul
-----Original Message-----
>From: Raymond Feist [mailto:raymond@bittersea.com]
>Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 12:08 PM
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: Re: The Jigsaw Lady
>
>
>
>On Tuesday, July 30, 2002, at 02:19 AM, Paul Atkinson wrote:
>
>> If you dont mind which five are under contract at the moment....
>>
>
>King of Foxes, Jimmy the Hand, three unnamed.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
>stupidity.
>

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From: Chris Vance <pikachu_chris@yahoo.com.sg>
Subject: Re: Languages of Midkemia
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Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 02:45:21 -0700 (PDT)
From: Chris Vance <pikachu_chris@yahoo.com.sg>
Subject: Re: Languages of Midkemia
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Isalan is part of Great Kesh. So it would not be to
far fetched to consider that Keshian is the language
used in Isalan. On that note, maybe we can consider
Isalan a dialect.... Waddaya Say Ray

CIA
--- James Barker <heechee@softhome.net> wrote:
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jason Mulligan" <manwe@internode.on.net>
> To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 12:44 AM
> Subject: Re: Languages of Midkemia
> 
> 
> *snip*
> 
> I'm amazed that no-one has mentioned Isalani yet...
> Or Elven, in it's many
> variants (Eledhel, moredhel, Jeshandi, etc.). Don't
> forget Brijaner (I
> think), and of course Roldem and Olaskan... And what
> language does Talon
> speak?
> 
> Fact is, the potential for languages in Midkemia is
> pretty damn huge --
> Tolkien could have much fun. :)
> 
> Cheers,
> James
> 


=====
The Brainless

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better
http://health.yahoo.com



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From: trym asserson <teeba@start.no>
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Quoting Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>:

> At 08:59 31/07/2002, James Barker spake thusly:
> >Just a reminder to those new to the list: this list is international.
> >As such, we have plenty of people who don't speak English as a first
> >language, who aren't too fluent, etc, etc. We also have people who just plain
> >don't like bastardising the language (say hello, Rip!).

> That's hardly fair.  I had just bypassed his post (rather
> than read-and-delete), in preparation for giving him what
> for in the very near future.  Say, just after I finished
> reading all my in-box.  

It's closer to part of language evolution (degeneration?), not bastardising.. No
matter how much I agree with you that I personally regard it as bastardising the
language and complicating matters for those who do not have fluent English
skills, you see it happening to most other languages too within their younger
generations.. Written form (probably spurred on by the advent of SMS messaging
or just their culture) finds its shape from the pronounced form. Although I
believe it's not an evolution that will have such a great impact that it takes
over for the plain "pure English", it's still viewed as an evolutionary
phenomenon among linguists... or so I've read.
r u wid me? ;)

Regards,
Trym

------------------------------------------------------------
Få din egen @start.no-adresse gratis på http://www.start.no/



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Subject: Re: Languages of Midkemia
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Vance" <pikachu_chris@yahoo.com.sg>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2002 7:45 PM
Subject: Re: Languages of Midkemia


> Isalan is part of Great Kesh. So it would not be to
> far fetched to consider that Keshian is the language
> used in Isalan. On that note, maybe we can consider
> Isalan a dialect.... Waddaya Say Ray

Naaaaaah.... :)

IIRC, in The King's Buccaneer, Nakor complements Admiral Trask on the
quality of his joke -- although it was delivered in poor Isalani.

Cheers,
James



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From: "Greg Bulloch" <somedude1_2000@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: James The Flamer
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 22:07:11 +1000
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ok.....this is the second time ive been flamed for saying some1 and b etc
and james i think you did it both times
i speak perfect english thank you
i live in australia
i dont apreciate you saying i cant speak english
if your stuck up keep it to yourself
im not hurting anyone i can be understood perfectly
you flaming me does nothing at all but annoy me
i try to rememebr not to say some1 and b etc but sometimes i forget and i 
dont appreciate being flamed for it
so mind your own business:)
sorry list and sorry Ray but i dont see why i should be flamed for sliping 
wih my typing  only 3 times in a post
well thats my say
im sure there will b many a flame as a result of it good day:)


>From: "James Barker" <heechee@softhome.net>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: Couple of pointers (Was Re: New to this list)
>Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 17:59:09 +1000
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Greg Bulloch" <somedude1_2000@hotmail.com>
>To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
>Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2002 3:48 PM
>Subject: RE: New to this list
>
>
> >
> > i think some1 already asked him bout roo and he said there will b no 
>more
> > about them except they wil b really old or dead in concave or something
>
>I haven't been posting much lately, but I feel I should just mention 
>this...
>
>Just a reminder to those new to the list: this list is international. As
>such, we have plenty of people who don't speak English as a first language,
>who aren't too fluent, etc, etc. We also have people who just plain don't
>like bastardising the language (say hello, Rip!).
>
>For that reason, it's a general rule of the list that we avoid using
>internet slang, including using letters in place of words, numbers in place
>of syllables, stuff like that. u mite b a hard-kore sk8er, or perhaps a 
>very
>w00t, l33t-flu3nt g33k, and that's great for when you're trading SMSs with
>your crew about some sick new variant of the Olly Nosebone or whatever, or
>if you're busy r0x0ring some n00b'5 b0x3rs in CS -- but on this list, try
>and keep it to plain, dictionary english. You can get away with smilies and
>things like *G*, *BG*, and so on, though. ;)
>
>Also try and get your grammar, punctuation and spelling right (that said, I
>know I'll make at least one mistake of each in this letter -- bloody
>Murphy). It doesn't take that long, and it can make it a whole heap easier
>for the guy from Eastern Carpetstain or wherever who's trying to learn
>English in a fairly pure form.
>
>Lastly, try and keep everything in plain text format -- no HTML. Strange as
>it may seem, some people still use email clients that don't interpret HTML
>codes, and end up with a lot of gibberish to wade through. Tends to make
>them cranky. :)
>
>Cheers,
>James




_________________________________________________________________
Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
http://www.hotmail.com



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Subject: Re: James The Flamer
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 14:18:25 +0200
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: Kenneth Jones <killkenny@thos.co.za>
Subject: Re: James The Flamer
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>ok.....this is the second time ive been flamed for saying some1 and b etc
>and james i think you did it both times
>i speak perfect english thank you

It's not that you can speak the queens English like a pro. The point is 
that there are forign people on the list that can't understand what you are 
trying to say.

>i live in australia
>i dont apreciate you saying i cant speak english

Again he is not saying that you can't speak English, James point is that 
other people can't understand you.

>if your stuck up keep it to yourself

I think you mean "if you're stuck up" :->

>im not hurting anyone i can be understood perfectly
>you flaming me does nothing at all but annoy me

It is not flaming, it is a request to type in a different way, so people 
that /don't/ know English all that well, can understand you.

>i try to rememebr not to say some1 and b etc but sometimes i forget and i 
>dont appreciate being flamed for it
>so mind your own business:)
>sorry list and sorry Ray but i dont see why i should be flamed for sliping 
>wih my typing  only 3 times in a post
>well thats my say
>im sure there will b many a flame as a result of it good day:)

Again this is not a flame, more of a request

Regards,
Kenneth Jones



>>From: "James Barker" <heechee@softhome.net>
>>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>>Subject: Couple of pointers (Was Re: New to this list)
>>Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 17:59:09 +1000
>>
>>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "Greg Bulloch" <somedude1_2000@hotmail.com>
>>To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
>>Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2002 3:48 PM
>>Subject: RE: New to this list
>>
>>
>> >
>> > i think some1 already asked him bout roo and he said there will b no more
>> > about them except they wil b really old or dead in concave or something
>>
>>I haven't been posting much lately, but I feel I should just mention this...
>>
>>Just a reminder to those new to the list: this list is international. As
>>such, we have plenty of people who don't speak English as a first language,
>>who aren't too fluent, etc, etc. We also have people who just plain don't
>>like bastardising the language (say hello, Rip!).
>>
>>For that reason, it's a general rule of the list that we avoid using
>>internet slang, including using letters in place of words, numbers in place
>>of syllables, stuff like that. u mite b a hard-kore sk8er, or perhaps a very
>>w00t, l33t-flu3nt g33k, and that's great for when you're trading SMSs with
>>your crew about some sick new variant of the Olly Nosebone or whatever, or
>>if you're busy r0x0ring some n00b'5 b0x3rs in CS -- but on this list, try
>>and keep it to plain, dictionary english. You can get away with smilies and
>>things like *G*, *BG*, and so on, though. ;)
>>
>>Also try and get your grammar, punctuation and spelling right (that said, I
>>know I'll make at least one mistake of each in this letter -- bloody
>>Murphy). It doesn't take that long, and it can make it a whole heap easier
>>for the guy from Eastern Carpetstain or wherever who's trying to learn
>>English in a fairly pure form.
>>
>>Lastly, try and keep everything in plain text format -- no HTML. Strange as
>>it may seem, some people still use email clients that don't interpret HTML
>>codes, and end up with a lot of gibberish to wade through. Tends to make
>>them cranky. :)
>>
>>Cheers,
>>James
>
>
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Join the world's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
>http://www.hotmail.com



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On Wed, Jul 31, 2002 at 10:07:11PM +1000, Greg Bulloch wrote:
> ok.....this is the second time ive been flamed for saying some1 and b etc
> and james i think you did it both times
> i speak perfect english thank you

That is possible (unlikely, but possible), but you do not write perfect
English, at least not on this list.

Oh, and please don't top post.  There are good reasons for why the
convention is to put your comments *after* the text you are commenting
on.

> i live in australia

So?  That does not mean your English automatically is correct.

> i dont apreciate you saying i cant speak english

I don't think you were supposed to appreciate it.  You were supposed to
do something about it.

> if your stuck up keep it to yourself
> im not hurting anyone i can be understood perfectly

You can be understood, certainly, but not perfectly and not without
extra effort that would not have been needed if you had followed normal
conventions in writing.

It is more difficult to read text that does not use proper
spelling, grammar or punctuation.

If you can't be bothered about writing in such a way that others can
easily read what you write, then don't expect other people to bother
about reading what you do write.


> you flaming me does nothing at all but annoy me
> i try to rememebr not to say some1 and b etc but sometimes i forget and i 
> dont appreciate being flamed for it

So change your writing style so that there is no need for anybody to
flame you.

> so mind your own business:)
> sorry list and sorry Ray but i dont see why i should be flamed for sliping 
> wih my typing  only 3 times in a post

Only 3 times?  In this mail alone there are lots of errors.
Hints:  Sentences are supposed to start with a capital letter.
Punctuation is important.  There is no word 'i' in English (the word
'I' do exist on the other hand.)


> well thats my say
> im sure there will b many a flame as a result of it good day:)

And a final item for you to think about: 
In my experience from 10 years on the 'Net those people who do not
bother about writing correct English very rarely have anything
interesting to say anyway.  Therefore I (and many other people with me)
quite often skip posts/mails where the author does not seem to have
bothered to even try using proper grammer/spelling.  The assumption
here is that the author is probably a cluless twit who do not have
anything intersesting to say anyway.
There are of course exceptions to this, some people do have interesting
things to say even if their use of the language is abomniable.  These
exceptions are remarkably few though.

I have also noted the interesting fact that the people who do not
bother about making their posts readable very often seem to be the same
as those using Hotmail or AOL.  There are exceptions to this too of
course but they are exactly that: exceptions.

> 
> 
> >From: "James Barker" <heechee@softhome.net>
> >Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> >To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> >Subject: Couple of pointers (Was Re: New to this list)
> >Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 17:59:09 +1000
> >
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Greg Bulloch" <somedude1_2000@hotmail.com>
> >To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> >Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2002 3:48 PM
> >Subject: RE: New to this list
> >
> >
> >>
> >> i think some1 already asked him bout roo and he said there will b no 
> >more
> >> about them except they wil b really old or dead in concave or something
> >
> >I haven't been posting much lately, but I feel I should just mention 
> >this...
> >
> >Just a reminder to those new to the list: this list is international. As
> >such, we have plenty of people who don't speak English as a first language,
> >who aren't too fluent, etc, etc. We also have people who just plain don't
> >like bastardising the language (say hello, Rip!).
> >
> >For that reason, it's a general rule of the list that we avoid using
> >internet slang, including using letters in place of words, numbers in place
> >of syllables, stuff like that. u mite b a hard-kore sk8er, or perhaps a 
> >very
> >w00t, l33t-flu3nt g33k, and that's great for when you're trading SMSs with
> >your crew about some sick new variant of the Olly Nosebone or whatever, or
> >if you're busy r0x0ring some n00b'5 b0x3rs in CS -- but on this list, try
> >and keep it to plain, dictionary english. You can get away with smilies and
> >things like *G*, *BG*, and so on, though. ;)
> >
> >Also try and get your grammar, punctuation and spelling right (that said, I
> >know I'll make at least one mistake of each in this letter -- bloody
> >Murphy). It doesn't take that long, and it can make it a whole heap easier
> >for the guy from Eastern Carpetstain or wherever who's trying to learn
> >English in a fairly pure form.
> >
> >Lastly, try and keep everything in plain text format -- no HTML. Strange as
> >it may seem, some people still use email clients that don't interpret HTML
> >codes, and end up with a lot of gibberish to wade through. Tends to make
> >them cranky. :)
> >
> >Cheers,
> >James
> 


-- 
<Insert your favourite quote here.>
Erik Trulsson
ertr1013@student.uu.se



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Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 13:49:50 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: Couple of pointers (Was Re: New to this list)
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My problem is not so much with the culture that uses "hax0r"
'spelling', as the (blatantly false) idea that every form of 
media interaction can be "improved" by the use thereof.

Consider the mice, voting to bell the cat...The "hax0r" 
culture trying to force its culture into "RL", and then
being upset when real life raises its ugly head and slaps 
them down.  The culture is juvenile, populated by juveniles... 

You don't walk into {enter name of expensive, high-class 
restaurant...which for 'hax0rs' probably means Mickie-Ds...},
and ask for a couple of hotdogs and a beer*.  This is in
effect what they are doing, when they come into an already
existing culture (feistfans-l), not pay attention to what's
going on around them, and then jump in with sub-standard
language.

But we all know that this is just me, all may ignore me at
one's leisure, and filters work both ways.

One other thing that should be said, however, is that while
language evolution follows the spoken form, the problem is 
which spoken form takes precedence?  Mine? (No. California)  
My wife's? (Bilingual AmEnglish/German, brought up in Germany)  
My son's? (Bilingual AmEnglish/German, brought up in /England/)
Yours?  There are any number of regional dialects for any
language with any significant number of speakers.   

rip 
-- 
* I note in passing however that a member of the sub-culture
in question /could/ go into McDonald's and order a couple
hot-dogs and a beer, given that there are countries in which
McDonald's sells both.  

At 11:51 31/07/2002, trym asserson spake thusly:
>It's closer to part of language evolution (degeneration?), not 
>bastardising.. No matter how much I agree with you that I 
>personally regard it as bastardising the language and 
>complicating matters for those who do not have fluent English
>skills, you see it happening to most other languages too 
>within their younger generations.. Written form (probably 
>spurred on by the advent of SMS messaging or just their 
>culture) finds its shape from the pronounced form. Although 
>I believe it's not an evolution that will have such a great 
>impact that it takes over for the plain "pure English", it's 
>still viewed as an evolutionary phenomenon among linguists... 
>or so I've read.  r u wid me? ;)



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Subject: Re: James The Flamer
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Put the testosterone in a jar boys, and lets get back to the topic of this
list. =)

----- Original Message -----
From: Greg Bulloch <somedude1_2000@hotmail.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2002 10:07 PM
Subject: James The Flamer


> ok.....this is the second time ive been flamed for saying some1 and b etc
> and james i think you did it both times
> i speak perfect english thank you
> i live in australia
> i dont apreciate you saying i cant speak english
> if your stuck up keep it to yourself
> im not hurting anyone i can be understood perfectly
> you flaming me does nothing at all but annoy me
> i try to rememebr not to say some1 and b etc but sometimes i forget and i
> dont appreciate being flamed for it
> so mind your own business:)
> sorry list and sorry Ray but i dont see why i should be flamed for sliping
> wih my typing  only 3 times in a post
> well thats my say
> im sure there will b many a flame as a result of it good day:)
>
>
> >From: "James Barker" <heechee@softhome.net>
> >Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> >To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> >Subject: Couple of pointers (Was Re: New to this list)
> >Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 17:59:09 +1000
> >
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Greg Bulloch" <somedude1_2000@hotmail.com>
> >To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> >Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2002 3:48 PM
> >Subject: RE: New to this list
> >
> >
> > >
> > > i think some1 already asked him bout roo and he said there will b no
> >more
> > > about them except they wil b really old or dead in concave or something
> >
> >I haven't been posting much lately, but I feel I should just mention
> >this...
> >
> >Just a reminder to those new to the list: this list is international. As
> >such, we have plenty of people who don't speak English as a first language,
> >who aren't too fluent, etc, etc. We also have people who just plain don't
> >like bastardising the language (say hello, Rip!).
> >
> >For that reason, it's a general rule of the list that we avoid using
> >internet slang, including using letters in place of words, numbers in place
> >of syllables, stuff like that. u mite b a hard-kore sk8er, or perhaps a
> >very
> >w00t, l33t-flu3nt g33k, and that's great for when you're trading SMSs with
> >your crew about some sick new variant of the Olly Nosebone or whatever, or
> >if you're busy r0x0ring some n00b'5 b0x3rs in CS -- but on this list, try
> >and keep it to plain, dictionary english. You can get away with smilies and
> >things like *G*, *BG*, and so on, though. ;)
> >
> >Also try and get your grammar, punctuation and spelling right (that said, I
> >know I'll make at least one mistake of each in this letter -- bloody
> >Murphy). It doesn't take that long, and it can make it a whole heap easier
> >for the guy from Eastern Carpetstain or wherever who's trying to learn
> >English in a fairly pure form.
> >
> >Lastly, try and keep everything in plain text format -- no HTML. Strange as
> >it may seem, some people still use email clients that don't interpret HTML
> >codes, and end up with a lot of gibberish to wade through. Tends to make
> >them cranky. :)
> >
> >Cheers,
> >James
>
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Join the world's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
> http://www.hotmail.com
>



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Subject: Re: James The Flamer
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> i live in australia

>So?  That does not mean your English automatically is correct.

Ok, I don't think he was saying it in quite that context. I think all he
meant was that he lives in an English speaking country. Don't turn this into
a race thing.



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Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 14:21:49 +0100
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At 13:07 31/07/2002, Greg Bulloch spake thusly:
>ok.....this is the second time ive been flamed for saying some1 and b etc
>and james i think you did it both times
>i speak perfect english thank you ...

Actually, Greg, James didn't flame you.  He pointed out
/to the list in general/ that the variant of the English 
language that is expected on this list is /not/ the 
variant that includes things like "some1" or "b" or "u",
when what is really meant is "someone", "be" or "you".

This list expects Standard Written English (as best as you 
are able).  It may be that you were brought up someplace 
where English was a second or foreign language, and if 
that is the case, no one will come down on you for not 
being absolutely correct in its usage.

If, on the other hand, you were brought up in a location
that uses or even codifies English as the primary means
of spoken and/or written communication...and then simply
resist using it 'correctly' even when politely asked to,
then that makes you look like a two year old.

So, James didn't flame you.  'Flames' are /much/ more 
aggressive then bringing something to the /lists/ 
attention that may not have noticed.  I note in passing
the two emails that have just popped up on the list ;->

How you /speak/ English is not under discussion.  What 
we are on about is how you /write/ it.  You state below 
that you speak perfect English.  Great!  But I think 
you'll need to work harder at proving it, because up 
until now, your posts have used non-standard English 
spelling and grammatical constructions.  Thankfully, 
you've not degenerated into using non-alpha symbols 
to spell, which is my true pet-peave.

If when you post, you assume your English teacher will
be grading the language you use, and judging it against
the level of English that he or she knows you have, then
you'll probably not get on our nerves.  

One other point...you say:
> im not hurting anyone i can be understood perfectly

1) I've received papers from students (I was an English-as
a-Foreign-Language teacher) that used the type of non-standard
English as you have used, as in the line above.  Their
grades for the course suffered accordingly.  They attempted
to justify their usages by saying that they had seen it on
the 'net, being used by native English speakers.  This shows
that it can be said that the use of non-standard English
in an international and very public venue could in fact be 
detrimental to those on /this/ list who are /not/ native 
English speakers, and who might be lurking here simply to 
read interesting discourse, in English, but who may not be 
expert enough to note correct vs. incorrect usage.

2) Amongst your friends, you can probably be understood perfectly.
Can you say that we, on this list, are your friends?  Do you
want us to be?  If so, how many of us have you just alienated, 
by showing attitude instead of trying to fit in to the group?

rip


At 13:07 31/07/2002, Greg Bulloch spake thusly:
>ok.....this is the second time ive been flamed for saying some1 and b etc
>and james i think you did it both times
>i speak perfect english thank you
>i live in australia
>i dont apreciate you saying i cant speak english
>if your stuck up keep it to yourself
>im not hurting anyone i can be understood perfectly
>you flaming me does nothing at all but annoy me
>i try to rememebr not to say some1 and b etc but sometimes i forget and i dont appreciate being flamed for it
>so mind your own business:)
>sorry list and sorry Ray but i dont see why i should be flamed for sliping wih my typing  only 3 times in a post
>well thats my say
>im sure there will b many a flame as a result of it good day:)
>
>
>>From: "James Barker" <heechee@softhome.net>
>>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>>Subject: Couple of pointers (Was Re: New to this list)
>>Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 17:59:09 +1000
>>
>>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "Greg Bulloch" <somedude1_2000@hotmail.com>
>>To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
>>Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2002 3:48 PM
>>Subject: RE: New to this list
>>
>>
>>>
>>> i think some1 already asked him bout roo and he said there will b no more
>>> about them except they wil b really old or dead in concave or something
>>
>>I haven't been posting much lately, but I feel I should just mention this...
>>
>>Just a reminder to those new to the list: this list is international. As
>>such, we have plenty of people who don't speak English as a first language,
>>who aren't too fluent, etc, etc. We also have people who just plain don't
>>like bastardising the language (say hello, Rip!).
>>
>>For that reason, it's a general rule of the list that we avoid using
>>internet slang, including using letters in place of words, numbers in place
>>of syllables, stuff like that. u mite b a hard-kore sk8er, or perhaps a very
>>w00t, l33t-flu3nt g33k, and that's great for when you're trading SMSs with
>>your crew about some sick new variant of the Olly Nosebone or whatever, or
>>if you're busy r0x0ring some n00b'5 b0x3rs in CS -- but on this list, try
>>and keep it to plain, dictionary english. You can get away with smilies and
>>things like *G*, *BG*, and so on, though. ;)
>>
>>Also try and get your grammar, punctuation and spelling right (that said, I
>>know I'll make at least one mistake of each in this letter -- bloody
>>Murphy). It doesn't take that long, and it can make it a whole heap easier
>>for the guy from Eastern Carpetstain or wherever who's trying to learn
>>English in a fairly pure form.
>>
>>Lastly, try and keep everything in plain text format -- no HTML. Strange as
>>it may seem, some people still use email clients that don't interpret HTML
>>codes, and end up with a lot of gibberish to wade through. Tends to make
>>them cranky. :)
>>
>>Cheers,
>>James
>
>
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com



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From: "M Chaloner" <markchaloner@btinternet.com>
To: "feistfans-l" <feistfans-l@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: James The Flamer
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 14:22:57 +0100
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>ok.....this is the second time ive been flamed for saying some1 and b
>etc and james i think you did it both times i speak perfect english
>thank you i live in australia i dont apreciate you saying i cant speak
>english if your stuck up keep it to yourself im not hurting anyone i can
>be understood perfectly you flaming me does nothing at all but annoy me
>i try to rememebr not to say some1 and b etc but sometimes i forget and
>i 
>dont appreciate being flamed for it
>so mind your own business:)
>sorry list and sorry Ray but i dont see why i should be flamed for
>sliping 
>wih my typing  only 3 times in a post
>well thats my say
>im sure there will b many a flame as a result of it good day:)
>

Hi Greg,
I've no idea whether you're 10yrs old or 70yrs old, but when someone
gives you what is meant to be good advice on how to use good English
here on the list - you shouldn't necessarily see it as being a flame.
One thing that I hate as much as seeing abbreviated text, is seeing i
instead of I. But I'm not going to crucify you for it <grins>
That's just me - I like to see good English on the internet. I think the
point that's trying to be made Greg, is that this list is international
and includes people who don't have English as their first language -
such as you & me.
It's got nothing to do with being stuck up and we all sometimes forget -
but just take the time to recheck before you hit that send button.
That's really not too much to ask is it?

Mark ;-)

(And where are your fullstops? It just reads as one big long
uninterrupted sentence).



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Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 14:59:00 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: James The Flamer
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At 14:14 31/07/2002, Rhyaeth spake thusly:
>> i live in australia
>
>>So?  That does not mean your English automatically is correct.
>
>Ok, I don't think he was saying it in quite that context. I think all he
>meant was that he lives in an English speaking country. Don't turn this into
>a race thing.

Huh?  How is that a race thing?  It sounds to me like your 
triggers are set a little too hair-pin.

Just because you live in a country, doesn't mean that you speak
the native language correctly.  

I'm American.  I have lived in Germany, France (and to a lesser
extent short periods in Russia and Ukraine).  None of those
countries have English as the native language, yet they 
are generally of the same 'race'.  Do you see yet where 
'race' doesn't come into it?  We are talking about /language/.

"I lived in Germany".  That doesn't mean that my German is 
absolutely correct.  Shoot, just ask my wife.  

"I lived in France."  that doesn't mean that my French is 
absolutely correct.  Shoot, just ask Syl. 

Hell, I live in England now, and that doesn't mean that
my /English/ is absolutely correct.  But at least I damn 
sure /try/. 

rip



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From: "A Gnome" <nightshadow@froggy.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: James The Flamer
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2002 00:57:41 +1000
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From: "Richard Williamson" <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
> At 14:14 31/07/2002, Rhyaeth spake thusly:
[snip]
> Huh?  How is that a race thing?  It sounds to me like your
> triggers are set a little too hair-pin.
>
> Just because you live in a country, doesn't mean that you speak
> the native language correctly.
>
> I'm American.  I have lived in Germany, France (and to a lesser
> extent short periods in Russia and Ukraine).  None of those
> countries have English as the native language, yet they
> are generally of the same 'race'.  Do you see yet where
> 'race' doesn't come into it?  We are talking about /language/.
[snip]
> rip
While they are all very good points, and do enable non-english speaking
residents of the list to understand us clearly, I believe these suggestions
to Greg should be directed off-list. This also prevents flame-wars starting
on list. Unfortunately, some people do take offense at suggestions,
especillay if offlist, but you can only try.
(And rip, I definitely wasn't singling you out, it's just the last email,
which i chose to reply to).

CIAO,
           Aaron

http://www.hallofworlds.net/kerr/main.php
http://www.nightshadow.co.uk



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AS for a new, nicer topic...

Quick, easy question: Who is Al-maral?



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At 10:52 PM 31/07/2002, you wrote:
>AS for a new, nicer topic...
>
>Quick, easy question: Who is Al-maral?

Off the top of my head, sounds like a Valheru name. I don't think it is 
though - I'm pretty familar with them. Which book is this from? (Do we need 
spoilers here?)

----
Wogan (wogan@iinet.net.au)



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From: JEEPMONSTER69@aol.com
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 11:28:47 EDT
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In a message dated 7/31/2002 11:25:51 AM Eastern Daylight Time, 
jpartin@vorlon.eas.gatech.edu writes:


> AS for a new, nicer topic...
> 
> Quick, easy question: Who is Al-maral?
> 

I think Al-Maral was the Novindus (Novindan?) version of Ishap...something 
with a religious war, IIR Nakor's speech C.

                                                 Peace,
                                                             Matt
"This is not Nam. There are rules here."- Walter Sobchak

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Ishap?


-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Jud Partin
>Sent: 31 July 2002 15:52
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: Who is...
>
>
>AS for a new, nicer topic...
>
>Quick, easy question: Who is Al-maral?
>


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He is Ishap. There was a schism in the Church of Ishap, long, long ago. The 
Al-maral faction lost and left for the shores of Novindus. He is worshiped 
by the Jeshandi, I believe. I think the story can be found in The "Kings 
Buccaneer," though it might be in one of the first two Serpent War books.

Adieu

Jimmy

Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary 
Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
   -- Benjamin Franklin


>From: Jud Partin <jpartin@vorlon.eas.gatech.edu>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: Who is...
>Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 10:52:26 -0400
>
>AS for a new, nicer topic...
>
>Quick, easy question: Who is Al-maral?








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References: <F229r8pkpLkTgbLYluL000223a9@hotmail.com>
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Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 11:54:40 -0400
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: Sean Fister <sean@hope.kih.net>
Subject: Re: Who is...
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At 10:52 AM 7/31/02, you wrote:
>AS for a new, nicer topic...
>
>Quick, easy question: Who is Al-maral?

Minor Spoilers:








IIRC, it was the name for Ishap used over in Novindus.  Its representative 
of the belief that all the Gods on Midkemia are aspects of Ishap.  They 
came out of schism in the Ishapian church who sailed west after they were 
kicked out.  It was believed they were lost.  All this is explained in _The 
King's Buccaneer _ .

Sean Fister



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Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 08:56:02 -0700
Subject: Re: Couple of pointers (Was Re: New to this list)
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Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 08:56:02 -0700
Subject: Re: Couple of pointers (Was Re: New to this list)
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
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On Wednesday, July 31, 2002, at 12:59 AM, James Barker wrote:

>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Greg Bulloch" <somedude1_2000@hotmail.com>
> To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2002 3:48 PM
> Subject: RE: New to this list
>
>
>>
>> i think some1 already asked him bout roo and he said there will b no 
>> more
>> about them except they wil b really old or dead in concave or something
>
> I haven't been posting much lately, but I feel I should just mention 
> this...
>
> Just a reminder to those new to the list: this list is international. As
> such, we have plenty of people who don't speak English as a first 
> language,
> who aren't too fluent, etc, etc. We also have people who just plain 
> don't
> like bastardising the language (say hello, Rip!).
>
> For that reason, it's a general rule of the list that we avoid using
> internet slang, including using letters in place of words, numbers in 
> place
> of syllables, stuff like that. u mite b a hard-kore sk8er, or perhaps a 
> very
> w00t, l33t-flu3nt g33k, and that's great for when you're trading SMSs 
> with
> your crew about some sick new variant of the Olly Nosebone or whatever, 
> or
> if you're busy r0x0ring some n00b'5 b0x3rs in CS -- but on this list, 
> try
> and keep it to plain, dictionary english. You can get away with smilies 
> and
> things like *G*, *BG*, and so on, though. ;)
>
> Also try and get your grammar, punctuation and spelling right (that 
> said, I
> know I'll make at least one mistake of each in this letter -- bloody
> Murphy). It doesn't take that long, and it can make it a whole heap 
> easier
> for the guy from Eastern Carpetstain or wherever who's trying to learn
> English in a fairly pure form.
>
> Lastly, try and keep everything in plain text format -- no HTML. 
> Strange as
> it may seem, some people still use email clients that don't interpret 
> HTML
> codes, and end up with a lot of gibberish to wade through. Tends to make
> them cranky. :)
>

I'm a native speaker of English and I have no idea what those two 
examples say.  Of course I'm an old guy . . .

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 09:00:22 -0700
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Subject: Re: James The Flamer
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On Wednesday, July 31, 2002, at 05:07 AM, Greg Bulloch wrote:

> ok.....this is the second time ive been flamed for saying some1 and b 
> etc
> and james i think you did it both times
> i speak perfect english thank you
> i live in australia
> i dont apreciate you saying i cant speak english
> if your stuck up keep it to yourself
> im not hurting anyone i can be understood perfectly
> you flaming me does nothing at all but annoy me
> i try to rememebr not to say some1 and b etc but sometimes i forget and 
> i dont appreciate being flamed for it
> so mind your own business:)
> sorry list and sorry Ray but i dont see why i should be flamed for 
> sliping wih my typing  only 3 times in a post
> well thats my say
> im sure there will b many a flame as a result of it good day:)
>

It's not "slipping" 3 times.  It's ignoring language  rules that make it 
easier for people to read, which is the point.  You can't be understood 
perfectly by those on the list who have limited experience with 
English.  You're ignoring capitalization and punctuation, for starters.

But I'll leave it to the rest of the list to make the point.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 09:15:15 -0700
Subject: Re: Languages of Midkemia
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Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 09:15:15 -0700
Subject: Re: Languages of Midkemia
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
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On Wednesday, July 31, 2002, at 02:45 AM, Chris Vance wrote:

> Isalan is part of Great Kesh. So it would not be to
> far fetched to consider that Keshian is the language
> used in Isalan. On that note, maybe we can consider
> Isalan a dialect.... Waddaya Say Ray
>

God, I hate turning this into a linguistics course.

Isalan was a nation conquered by Kesh ages earlier.  It's now part of 
the Empire.  Everyone there speaks Keshian.  But most of the native born 
there also speak Isalani.   Just as people in New Orelans often speak 
Creol French, or people in Barcellona speak Catalan as well as Spanish.

Rodezian and Bas-Tyran are langauges, not dialects.  A dialect is a 
style of speech within a language, used by a common population.  So, 
Cockney is a dialect of English.  Welsh Gallic isn't; it's a dialect of 
Gallic, different from Scottish Gallic or Irish Gallic.

Then you have a patois, also known as argot, jargon, lingo, or venacular 
speech.  I only differentiate these from dialect because in my mind 
they're more localized, such as the patrois of a district of Paris, 
rather than the Parisian dialect.

When two or more more languages mesh, you have a pidgin.  There was a 
Pidgin English used during the Viet Nam war, for example, that let 
G.I.'s speak to native speakers of Vietnamese, that both sides could 
understand.

When people are born who speak a pidgin as a native languages, that 
languages is then called a creol.  The French spoken in Montreal or New 
Orleans are creols.  Swahili is a creol, mostly Bantu with Arabic, 
English, and German thrown in.

In Midkemia, The Common Tongue (or Common) is ued in both the Kingdom 
and Kesh, and it's a creol.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 09:17:07 -0700
Subject: Re: The Jigsaw Lady
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 09:17:07 -0700
Subject: Re: The Jigsaw Lady
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On Wednesday, July 31, 2002, at 02:35 AM, Paul Atkinson wrote:

> Ray
>
> In which series do the three unnamed come or is that to be decided?
>
>

Yes, the Third Riftwar.  What hasn't been decided and won't be until I 
get into King of Foxes is if these five books are all Conclave of 
Shadows (incorporating the Third Riftwar) or two Conclave and three 
Riftwar.  This decision is both easthetics and marketing.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 09:18:23 -0700
Subject: Re: Who is...
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 09:18:23 -0700
Subject: Re: Who is...
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On Wednesday, July 31, 2002, at 07:52 AM, Jud Partin wrote:

> AS for a new, nicer topic...
>
> Quick, easy question: Who is Al-maral?
>
>
>
>
A name for Ishapians who got involved in a heresy.  They claimed there 
was only one god, Al-maral and all the other gods, including Ishap, were 
but merely faces of that one god.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 11:33:05 -0500
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From: "Lowder, Jason" <jasonl@spfld.kebcpa.com>
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http://news.com.com/2100-1023-945923.html

With all of the talk of intellectual property on this board, I found this
article interesting, and a bit frightening.  

If you want to flame me for posting a marginally on topic item, please direct
them to me, not the list.

Jason Lowder, MCP, CPA
Kerber, Eck & Braeckel, LLP



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From: Paul Atkinson <paul.atkinson@isntv.co.uk>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: The Jigsaw Lady
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 17:41:37 +0100
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*** EOOH ***
From: Paul Atkinson <paul.atkinson@isntv.co.uk>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: The Jigsaw Lady
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 17:41:37 +0100
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So the rest of the Krondor Series (Assassins, Betrayal and Tear of the Gods)
haven't been contracted yet? Shame

I want to know how Pug ends up burning a house that Sidi is in (I remember
this from somewhere in the Serpent War Saga)

Thanks

Paul

-----Original Message-----
>From: Raymond Feist [mailto:raymond@bittersea.com]
>Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2002 5:17 PM
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: Re: The Jigsaw Lady
>
>
>
>On Wednesday, July 31, 2002, at 02:35 AM, Paul Atkinson wrote:
>
>> Ray
>>
>> In which series do the three unnamed come or is that to be decided?
>>
>>
>
>Yes, the Third Riftwar.  What hasn't been decided and won't be until I 
>get into King of Foxes is if these five books are all Conclave of 
>Shadows (incorporating the Third Riftwar) or two Conclave and three 
>Riftwar.  This decision is both easthetics and marketing.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
>stupidity.
>

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Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 17:05:19 +0100
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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: Andrea J Chee <andrea@bloodaxe.com>
Subject: Re: James The Flamer
References: <F229r8pkpLkTgbLYluL000223a9@hotmail.com>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20020731134956.00a76788@mail.swindon.wrsec.fr>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 17:05:19 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: Andrea J Chee <andrea@bloodaxe.com>
Subject: Re: James The Flamer
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

In article <5.1.0.14.2.20020731134956.00a76788@mail.swindon.wrsec.fr>,
Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com> writes

>If when you post, you assume your English teacher will
>be grading the language you use, and judging it against
>the level of English that he or she knows you have, then
>you'll probably not get on our nerves.  

It's not my English teacher I worry about, it's the editors. <LOL> After
nearly 10 years online, I've long learned that nothing you ever write
goes away - it follows you around.  Features that I wrote years ago,
thousands of my news postings, information sent to other people; all
seem to show up in the end. I find I have to be aware of what I'm
posting, because increasingly editors and publishers know the medium and
how to search it, and as the technology becomes more ubiquitous they
will do so more often. So I always try to write in such a way that I
won't mind if a potential client reads it years from now. I know I'll be
pretty peeved if I fail to pick up a lucrative assignment because of
some rubbish I wrote a decade ago. Equally, I've had more than one job
offer based on what I've written in a newsgroup. The many aspiring
writers here would do well to keep that in mind.* 

I suspect in future this will become relevant in many areas of work -
that potential employers may do a couple of quick online searches as
part of their assessment of a promising candidate (I already know a few
who do this). It would be a real shame to deny yourself your dream job,
simply because of an unthinking rant or careless post decades earlier.

My personal peeve with 'lazy' writers though is the sheer lack of
respect they show for the reader. If they feel they have something
important enough to post, surely it's a given that they should post it
in such a way as it can be read and understood - otherwise the posting
is pointless. If hundreds of people are going to be giving up their
valuable time to read what I write, as is the case with a mailing list
like this, it's only polite to take the couple of extra minutes to get
it right rather than wasting their time by producing a post that's hard
to read. It's would be very rude to assume that their time is less
valuable than mine.

- ANDREA

* (And one last hint for the aspiring writers: good writing is a habit,
as is bad writing. As with all habits, you develop them by doing them
repetitively. Someone in the habit of writing badly will have real
difficulty producing publication-quality work, whereas the person in the
habit of writing well won't even have to think about it. If you ever
think you'd like to pursue the goal of being published, good habits are
worth developing, which means taking advantage of every opportunity to
practise writing well - including emails.)

-- 
^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^
                  ANDROMEDA - Internet Goddess
<andrea@bloodaxe.com>                    http://www.bloodaxe.com/
Bloodaxe's History Links:   http://www.geocities.com/Athens/5055/
The Loony Bin Archive:               http://www.theloonies.co.uk/



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Subject: Re: Couple of pointers (Was Re: New to this list, Was Also Re: James The Flamer)
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Quoting Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>:
> 
> I'm a native speaker of English and I have no idea what those two 
> examples say.  Of course I'm an old guy . . .
> 
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
> 
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
> 
> stupidity.

Although I'm not a native English speaker, I sincerely hope that wasn't native
English... And I doubt age has anything to do with it either. I'm just a few
years older than those using this form extensively and I have no clue either
what it means.

And when Richard explains to me what "hax0r" means I'll be able to reply to that
post on language evolution vs bastardisation thing too. ;)

Quoting Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>:
>One other thing that should be said, however, is that while
>language evolution follows the spoken form, the problem is 
>which spoken form takes precedence?  Mine? (No. California)  
>My wife's? (Bilingual AmEnglish/German, brought up in Germany)  
>My son's? (Bilingual AmEnglish/German, brought up in /England/)
>Yours?  There are any number of regional dialects for any
>language with any significant number of speakers. 

Agreed. I think the changes come about through trends that develop in smaller
linguistic communities. Not just by a single user, although it could
initially have started out like that, but also from a small group that
influences a greater group and so on until you have whole regions adopting the
newfound dialect if its deemed beneficial in some way. Anyhow, I was just making
a point that it's not necessarily bastardisation, but could be seen as a new
shift in language evolution because it's finding increasingly widespread use
within younger generations. Unless they're looking to cut me out of society, I
hope it will never break through as common form because I just can't get it. :)

Quoting M Chaloner <markchaloner@btinternet.com>:
> (And where are your fullstops? It just reads as one big long
> uninterrupted sentence).

As far as I can recall, a recent Nobel Prize in Literature laureate did the
same in his novel (Jose Saramago, remember him?). So if it's good enough for a
prize, surely also the Internet?
Now, don't go taking this little tidbit as support for not posting in Std
Written English (afraid of abbreviating it SWE in case we get lots of Swedish
postings as a result) on this list.

nitpickery, nitpickery... luverly!

Trym :)

"Defender of the Combined-Threads"

------------------------------------------------------------
Få din egen @start.no-adresse gratis på http://www.start.no/



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Subject: Re: talon extract, voyager
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Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 10:11:29 -0700
Subject: Re: talon extract, voyager
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On Wednesday, July 31, 2002, at 09:33 AM, Lowder, Jason wrote:

> http://news.com.com/2100-1023-945923.html
>
> With all of the talk of intellectual property on this board, I found 
> this
> article interesting, and a bit frightening.
>
> If you want to flame me for posting a marginally on topic item, please 
> direct
> them to me, not the list.
>
> Jason Lowder, MCP, CPA
> Kerber, Eck & Braeckel, LLP
>
>
>
>

I don't find it frightening.  It's not aimed at the casual user who 
downloads M3's or MEP files they haven't paid for.  This is more like 
seeking authorization for a wire-tap and will be used to go after 
commercial pirate sites.  Does it have the potential for abuse? Sure, as 
does wire-tap, but while Martin Luther King was abused by J. Edgar 
Hoover's boys in that regard, no one I know suffered from an illegal 
wiretap.

I doubt anyone I know will have their system scanned for illegal 
copyrighted material, either.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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From: "James Holden" <james@globalvision.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: talon extract, voyager
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 18:15:06 +0100
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From: "James Holden" <james@globalvision.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: talon extract, voyager
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 18:15:06 +0100
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As with everything like this, as soon as it is done some clever person
will develop a remedy.

Look at the recent CD tampering exercise.  Encode the rim of the CD to
prevent computer playing/track extraction - remedy, use a black felt pen
and scrub the outer rim - solved.

Personally these companies etc must find a way to work with the changes
occuring rather than the methods they are employing.

Specifically, MP3 technology is here to stay and as such they must
embrace it and not try to prevent it - they face an uphill struggle.  I
think it's also safe to say when these companies do these things they
invite people to try and break or over-come it.

Jim

-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Lowder, Jason
>Sent: 31 July 2002 17:33
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: RE: talon extract, voyager
>
>
>http://news.com.com/2100-1023-945923.html
>
>With all of the talk of intellectual property on this board, I found
>this article interesting, and a bit frightening.  
>
>If you want to flame me for posting a marginally on topic item, please
>direct them to me, not the list.
>
>Jason Lowder, MCP, CPA
>Kerber, Eck & Braeckel, LLP
>


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Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2002 06:41:49 +1000
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From: Anestis Kozakis <kenosti@labyrinth.net.au>
Subject: Re: James The Flamer
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Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2002 06:41:49 +1000
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: Anestis Kozakis <kenosti@labyrinth.net.au>
Subject: Re: James The Flamer
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>ok.....this is the second time ive been flamed for saying some1 and b etc
>and james i think you did it both times
>i speak perfect english thank you

You probably do.

>i live in australia

So do I.

>i dont apreciate you saying i cant speak english

He wasn't saying that.  He was saying your written English is hard to 
understand.  I, an Australian, also find your words hard to 
understand.

>if your stuck up keep it to yourself

No one here is stuck up.  We're trying to help you so that you can be 
understood by those who's English is not quite so perfect.

>im not hurting anyone i can be understood perfectly

No you can't.  Even I'm having trouble and have to read and re-read 
what you typed because of it being non-standard English.

>you flaming me does nothing at all but annoy me

If you're on the internet, you need to grow a thicker skin, and take 
constructive criticism as it's meant.

>i try to rememebr not to say some1 and b etc but sometimes i forget 
>and i dont appreciate being flamed for it

You weren't being flamed for it.  You were asked twice, politely, to 
try and make an effort to write properly.

>so mind your own business:)

When you post in a public forum, it becomes everyone's business, and 
putting a smiley on the end doesn't help.

>sorry list and sorry Ray but i dont see why i should be flamed for 
>sliping wih my typing  only 3 times in a post

More than three times.

>well thats my say

And everyone else is having their say, which they are entitled too. 
Seems to me you're a little outnumbered in opinions.  Maybe they have 
something to say that you should listen to.

>im sure there will b many a flame as a result of it good day:)

Not flaming, constructive criticism.  It's a different animal all together.

Anestis.


-- 
kenosti@labyrinth.net.au
"A complete list of this film's associate producers
  is available upon request."
    -- In End Credits for "State and Main"



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From: "Steve Weghorn" <pelvislives@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re: Couple of pointers (Was Re: New to this list)
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I'm twenty two and live in the U. S. and I have no idea what those
words mean either Mr. Feist, so don't think that it's an age thing.

                                                                  Steve Weghorn


>From: Raymond Feist <RAYMOND@BITTERSEA.COM>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu 
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu 
>Subject: Re: Couple of pointers (Was Re: New to this list) 
>Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 08:56:02 -0700 
> 
> 
>On Wednesday, July 31, 2002, at 12:59 AM, James Barker wrote: 
> 
>> 
>>----- Original Message ----- 
>>From: "Greg Bulloch" <SOMEDUDE1_2000@HOTMAIL.COM>
>>To: <FEISTFANS-L@CORNELL.EDU>
>>Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2002 3:48 PM 
>>Subject: RE: New to this list 
>> 
>> 
>>> 
>>>i think some1 already asked him bout roo and he said there will b 
>>>no more 
>>>about them except they wil b really old or dead in concave or 
>>>something 
>> 
>>I haven't been posting much lately, but I feel I should just 
>>mention this... 
>> 
>>Just a reminder to those new to the list: this list is 
>>international. As 
>>such, we have plenty of people who don't speak English as a first 
>>language, 
>>who aren't too fluent, etc, etc. We also have people who just plain 
>>don't 
>>like bastardising the language (say hello, Rip!). 
>> 
>>For that reason, it's a general rule of the list that we avoid 
>>using 
>>internet slang, including using letters in place of words, numbers 
>>in place 
>>of syllables, stuff like that. u mite b a hard-kore sk8er, or 
>>perhaps a very 
>>w00t, l33t-flu3nt g33k, and that's great for when you're trading 
>>SMSs with 
>>your crew about some sick new variant of the Olly Nosebone or 
>>whatever, or 
>>if you're busy r0x0ring some n00b'5 b0x3rs in CS -- but on this 
>>list, try 
>>and keep it to plain, dictionary english. You can get away with 
>>smilies and 
>>things like *G*, *BG*, and so on, though. ;) 
>> 
>>Also try and get your grammar, punctuation and spelling right (that 
>>said, I 
>>know I'll make at least one mistake of each in this letter -- 
>>bloody 
>>Murphy). It doesn't take that long, and it can make it a whole heap 
>>easier 
>>for the guy from Eastern Carpetstain or wherever who's trying to 
>>learn 
>>English in a fairly pure form. 
>> 
>>Lastly, try and keep everything in plain text format -- no HTML. 
>>Strange as 
>>it may seem, some people still use email clients that don't 
>>interpret HTML 
>>codes, and end up with a lot of gibberish to wade through. Tends to 
>>make 
>>them cranky. :) 
>> 
> 
>I'm a native speaker of English and I have no idea what those two 
>examples say. Of course I'm an old guy . . . 
> 
>Best, R.E.F. 
>---- 
> 
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away 
>by stupidity. 

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Hello Jud,



Thursday, August 1, 2002, 12:52:26 AM, you wrote:

JP> AS for a new, nicer topic...

JP> Quick, easy question: Who is Al-maral?

The one God above all (Kings Buccaneer IIRC)

-- 
Best regards,
Paul Duthie                     duthie.paul.j@edumail.vic.gov.au
Network Manager,
Ballarat High School            www.ballaraths.vic.edu.au
Sent Using The Bat! Version 1.60h



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Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 17:57:56 -0400
From: Jud Partin <jpartin@vorlon.eas.gatech.edu>
Organization: Georgia Tech
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Possible Spoiler for Serpentwar Saga:













Raymond Feist wrote:

> On Wednesday, July 31, 2002, at 07:52 AM, Jud Partin wrote:
>
> > AS for a new, nicer topic...
> >
> > Quick, easy question: Who is Al-maral?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> A name for Ishapians who got involved in a heresy.  They claimed there
> was only one god, Al-maral and all the other gods, including Ishap, were
> but merely faces of that one god.
>
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
>
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
> stupidity.

So is Al-maral the same as who Macros called "The Ultimate"? Or who Nakor
called "The Is"? I noticed that these titles, and their pronouns, were
capitalized in the book- RoaDK I think-, but god is not capitalized for the
other gods in the books (and not above either which may be the answer to my
question). Seeing to where as most of us are from a mono-theistic religious
background (with the large exception of Hindus, of course), it makes sense
that that belief is reflected.

Therefore, the other gods, worlds, races and people are all creations of The
Is- the One who showed Pug, Tomas, and Macros the Beginning of their
universe- which is close to the definition above for Al-maral..

But why do not the Kingdom or Kesh or Roldem, etc. have The Ultimate listed
in their beliefs?

...also to interject an opinion. I've always thought that Nakor was an
"unknowing" agent of The Is. That would explain his thrist for knowledge,
his dark, dark side, his bright, light side, his non-belief in magic, his
joy and excitement over teaching a baby God, his want to do good, establish
the order of Arch-Indar and combat Nalar- the mad one, and other issues
about him.

-Jud



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Subject: RE: Couple of pointers (Was Re: New to this list)
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2002 09:20:34 +1000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "A Irving" <s355156@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Couple of pointers (Was Re: New to this list)
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2002 09:20:34 +1000
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

>>stuff like that. u mite b a hard-kore sk8er, or 
>>perhaps a very 
>>w00t, l33t-flu3nt g33k, and that's great for when you're trading 
>>SMSs with 
>>your crew about some sick new variant of the Olly Nosebone or 
>>whatever, or 
>>if you're busy r0x0ring some n00b'5 b0x3rs in CS -- but on this 
>>list, try

stuff like that. You might be a hardcore skater, or perhaps a very w00t
(good?), leet-fluent geek, and that’s great for when you're trading
sms's with your crew about some sick new variant of the holy nosebone
(dunno about that one) or whatever, or if you're busy rocking some
newbie's boxers in Counter Strike -- but on this list...........
Is that what you did not understand, those words?
I know a little l337 but I am 'flu3n7'. It annoys me aswell.

CIAO,
         Aaron
 
http://www.hallofworlds.net/kerr/main.php 
http://www.nightshadow.co.uk

-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Steve Weghorn
>Sent: Thursday, 1 August 2002 6:56 AM
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: Re: Couple of pointers (Was Re: New to this list)
>
>
>I'm twenty two and live in the U. S. and I have no idea what those words
>mean either Mr. Feist, so don't think that it's an age thing.  
>                                                                        
>     Steve Weghorn
>>From: Raymond Feist 
>>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu 
>>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu 
>>Subject: Re: Couple of pointers (Was Re: New to this list) 
>>Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 08:56:02 -0700 
>> 
>> 
>>On Wednesday, July 31, 2002, at 12:59 AM, James Barker wrote: 
>> 
>>> 
>>>----- Original Message ----- 
>>>From: "Greg Bulloch" 
>>>To: 
>>>Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2002 3:48 PM 
>>>Subject: RE: New to this list 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>i think some1 already asked him bout roo and he said there will b 
>>>>no more 
>>>>about them except they wil b really old or dead in concave or 
>>>>something 
>>> 
>>>I haven't been posting much lately, but I feel I should just 
>>>mention this... 
>>> 
>>>Just a reminder to those new to the list: this list is 
>>>international. As 
>>>such, we have plenty of people who don't speak English as a first 
>>>language, 
>>>who aren't too fluent, etc, etc. We also have people who just plain 
>>>don't 
>>>like bastardising the language (say hello, Rip!). 
>>> 
>>>For that reason, it's a general rule of the list that we avoid 
>>>using 
>>>internet slang, including using letters in place of words, numbers 
>>>in place 
>>>of syllables, stuff like that. u mite b a hard-kore sk8er, or 
>>>perhaps a very 
>>>w00t, l33t-flu3nt g33k, and that's great for when you're trading 
>>>SMSs with 
>>>your crew about some sick new variant of the Olly Nosebone or 
>>>whatever, or 
>>>if you're busy r0x0ring some n00b'5 b0x3rs in CS -- but on this 
>>>list, try 
>>>and keep it to plain, dictionary english. You can get away with 
>>>smilies and 
>>>things like *G*, *BG*, and so on, though. ;) 
>>> 
>>>Also try and get your grammar, punctuation and spelling right (that 
>>>said, I 
>>>know I'll make at least one mistake of each in this letter -- 
>>>bloody 
>>>Murphy). It doesn't take that long, and it can make it a whole heap 
>>>easier 
>>>for the guy from Eastern Carpetstain or wherever who's trying to 
>>>learn 
>>>English in a fairly pure form. 
>>> 
>>>Lastly, try and keep everything in plain text format -- no HTML. 
>>>Strange as 
>>>it may seem, some people still use email clients that don't 
>>>interpret HTML 
>>>codes, and end up with a lot of gibberish to wade through. Tends to 
>>>make 
>>>them cranky. :) 
>>> 
>> 
>>I'm a native speaker of English and I have no idea what those two 
>>examples say. Of course I'm an old guy . . . 
>> 
>>Best, R.E.F. 
>>---- 
>> 
>>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away 
>>by stupidity. 
>
>
>
>Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: Click Here
>


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Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2002 10:01:12 +1000 (GMT+1000)
From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
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> AS for a new, nicer topic...
>
> Quick, easy question: Who is Al-maral?

Jeshandi god, IIRC, look in the King's Bucanneer for reference.

Thanks
Darragh
================================================
msn: iamtheporkfireman@hotmail.com

"Believe or die - thank you O lord for all those
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From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Who is...
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

> Possible Spoiler for Serpentwar Saga:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Raymond Feist wrote:
>
> > On Wednesday, July 31, 2002, at 07:52 AM, Jud Partin wrote:
> >
> > > AS for a new, nicer topic...
> > >
> > > Quick, easy question: Who is Al-maral?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > A name for Ishapians who got involved in a heresy.  They claimed there
> > was only one god, Al-maral and all the other gods, including Ishap, were
> > but merely faces of that one god.
> >
> > Best, R.E.F.
> > ----
> >
> > Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
> > stupidity.
>
> So is Al-maral the same as who Macros called "The Ultimate"? Or who Nakor
> called "The Is"? I noticed that these titles, and their pronouns, were
> capitalized in the book- RoaDK I think-, but god is not capitalized for the
> other gods in the books (and not above either which may be the answer to my
> question). Seeing to where as most of us are from a mono-theistic religious
> background (with the large exception of Hindus, of course), it makes sense
> that that belief is reflected.

Al-Maral is basically a different conception of the God Ishap. "The
Ultimate" is referred to in A Darakness as Sethanon and the primal cause,
the thing that brought the universe into creation (possibly something to
do with singularities - gee, been reading too much 'brief history of time
:)

I don't think they're the same thing personally.

> Therefore, the other gods, worlds, races and people are all creations of The
> Is- the One who showed Pug, Tomas, and Macros the Beginning of their
> universe- which is close to the definition above for Al-maral..
> ...also to interject an opinion. I've always thought that Nakor was an
> "unknowing" agent of The Is. That would explain his thrist for knowledge,
> his dark, dark side, his bright, light side, his non-belief in magic, his
> joy and excitement over teaching a baby God, his want to do good, establish
> the order of Arch-Indar and combat Nalar- the mad one, and other issues
> about him.
> -Jud

hmmm.


Thanks
Darragh
================================================
msn: iamtheporkfireman@hotmail.com

"Believe or die - thank you O lord for all those
 options" - Bill Hicks.
================================================



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From: "Rhyaeth" <vaeyn@hotmail.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
References: <F229r8pkpLkTgbLYluL000223a9@hotmail.com><20020731123918.GA5313@falcon.midgard.homeip.net> <5.1.0.14.2.20020731145226.00a76788@mail.swindon.wrsec.fr>
Subject: Re: James The Flamer
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2002 10:42:19 +1000
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From: "Rhyaeth" <vaeyn@hotmail.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: James The Flamer
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2002 10:42:19 +1000
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----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2002 11:59 PM
Subject: Re: James The Flamer


> At 14:14 31/07/2002, Rhyaeth spake thusly:
> >> i live in australia
> >
> >>So?  That does not mean your English automatically is correct.
> >
> >Ok, I don't think he was saying it in quite that context. I think all he
> >meant was that he lives in an English speaking country. Don't turn this into
> >a race thing.
>
> Huh?  How is that a race thing?  It sounds to me like your
> triggers are set a little too hair-pin.
>
> Just because you live in a country, doesn't mean that you speak
> the native language correctly.
>
> I'm American.  I have lived in Germany, France (and to a lesser
> extent short periods in Russia and Ukraine).  None of those
> countries have English as the native language, yet they
> are generally of the same 'race'.  Do you see yet where
> 'race' doesn't come into it?  We are talking about /language/.
>
> "I lived in Germany".  That doesn't mean that my German is
> absolutely correct.  Shoot, just ask my wife.
>
> "I lived in France."  that doesn't mean that my French is
> absolutely correct.  Shoot, just ask Syl.
>
> Hell, I live in England now, and that doesn't mean that
> my /English/ is absolutely correct.  But at least I damn
> sure /try/.
>
> rip
>

I actually went to bed knowing I'd taken that remark out of context. My
appologies. I misread, and jumped the gun. Cotinuous late nights are to
blame. =)



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From: "Steve Weghorn" <pelvislives@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: RE: Couple of pointers (Was Re: New to this list)
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From: "Steve Weghorn" <pelvislives@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: RE: Couple of pointers (Was Re: New to this list)
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 20:55:12 -0400
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I'm not sure if you were asking me or Mr. Feist, but I knew a couple
of them, just not all.  Oh just so you know an Olly Nosebone is a
skater trick.  I knew that from my years as a skater, my post was just
to show that some of us Americans don't even understand everything
he's saying, I couldn't even imagine trying to read through it if I
wasn't a native speaker.  Thanks for the help and have a good day.

                                                                  Steve Weghorn

>From: "A Irving" <S355156@STUDENT.UQ.EDU.AU>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu 
>To: <FEISTFANS-L@CORNELL.EDU>
>Subject: RE: Couple of pointers (Was Re: New to this list) 
>Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2002 09:20:34 +1000 
> 
> >>stuff like that. u mite b a hard-kore sk8er, or 
> >>perhaps a very 
> >>w00t, l33t-flu3nt g33k, and that's great for when you're trading 
> >>SMSs with 
> >>your crew about some sick new variant of the Olly Nosebone or 
> >>whatever, or 
> >>if you're busy r0x0ring some n00b'5 b0x3rs in CS -- but on this 
> >>list, try 
> 
>stuff like that. You might be a hardcore skater, or perhaps a very w00t 
>(good?), leet-fluent geek, and that’s great for when you're trading 
>sms's with your crew about some sick new variant of the holy nosebone 
>(dunno about that one) or whatever, or if you're busy rocking some 
>newbie's boxers in Counter Strike -- but on this list........... 
>Is that what you did not understand, those words? 
>I know a little l337 but I am 'flu3n7'. It annoys me aswell. 
> 
>CIAO, 
>         Aaron 
>  
>http://www.hallofworlds.net/kerr/main.php 
>http://www.nightshadow.co.uk 
> 
>-----Original Message----- 
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu 
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Steve Weghorn 
>Sent: Thursday, 1 August 2002 6:56 AM 
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu 
>Subject: Re: Couple of pointers (Was Re: New to this list) 
> 
> 
>I'm twenty two and live in the U. S. and I have no idea what those words 
>mean either Mr. Feist, so don't think that it's an age thing.  
>                                                                         
>     Steve Weghorn 
> >From: Raymond Feist 
> >Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu 
> >To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu 
> >Subject: Re: Couple of pointers (Was Re: New to this list) 
> >Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 08:56:02 -0700 
> > 
> > 
> >On Wednesday, July 31, 2002, at 12:59 AM, James Barker wrote: 
> > 
> >> 
> >>----- Original Message ----- 
> >>From: "Greg Bulloch" 
> >>To: 
> >>Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2002 3:48 PM 
> >>Subject: RE: New to this list 
> >> 
> >> 
> >>> 
> >>>i think some1 already asked him bout roo and he said there will b 
> >>>no more 
> >>>about them except they wil b really old or dead in concave or 
> >>>something 
> >> 
> >>I haven't been posting much lately, but I feel I should just 
> >>mention this... 
> >> 
> >>Just a reminder to those new to the list: this list is 
> >>international. As 
> >>such, we have plenty of people who don't speak English as a first 
> >>language, 
> >>who aren't too fluent, etc, etc. We also have people who just plain 
> >>don't 
> >>like bastardising the language (say hello, Rip!). 
> >> 
> >>For that reason, it's a general rule of the list that we avoid 
> >>using 
> >>internet slang, including using letters in place of words, numbers 
> >>in place 
> >>of syllables, stuff like that. u mite b a hard-kore sk8er, or 
> >>perhaps a very 
> >>w00t, l33t-flu3nt g33k, and that's great for when you're trading 
> >>SMSs with 
> >>your crew about some sick new variant of the Olly Nosebone or 
> >>whatever, or 
> >>if you're busy r0x0ring some n00b'5 b0x3rs in CS -- but on this 
> >>list, try 
> >>and keep it to plain, dictionary english. You can get away with 
> >>smilies and 
> >>things like *G*, *BG*, and so on, though. ;) 
> >> 
> >>Also try and get your grammar, punctuation and spelling right (that 
> >>said, I 
> >>know I'll make at least one mistake of each in this letter -- 
> >>bloody 
> >>Murphy). It doesn't take that long, and it can make it a whole heap 
> >>easier 
> >>for the guy from Eastern Carpetstain or wherever who's trying to 
> >>learn 
> >>English in a fairly pure form. 
> >> 
> >>Lastly, try and keep everything in plain text format -- no HTML. 
> >>Strange as 
> >>it may seem, some people still use email clients that don't 
> >>interpret HTML 
> >>codes, and end up with a lot of gibberish to wade through. Tends to 
> >>make 
> >>them cranky. :) 
> >> 
> > 
> >I'm a native speaker of English and I have no idea what those two 
> >examples say. Of course I'm an old guy . . . 
> > 
> >Best, R.E.F. 
> >---- 
> > 
> >Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away 
> >by stupidity. 
> 
> 
> 
>Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: Click Here 

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Subject: Re: James The Flamer
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From: "vlukic.george" <vlukic.george@chariot.net.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: James The Flamer
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2002 10:46:03 +0930
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> Only 3 times?  In this mail alone there are lots of errors.
> Hints:  Sentences are supposed to start with a capital letter.
> Punctuation is important.  There is no word 'i' in English (the word
> 'I' do exist on the other hand.)

Shouldn't that be "'I' does exist..."?

I was under the impression that to write it the way you did, you'd have to
use the plural form and write "'I's do exist..."

George



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Subject: RE: Couple of pointers (Was Re: New to this list)
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*** EOOH ***
From: "A Irving" <s355156@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Couple of pointers (Was Re: New to this list)
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2002 12:06:45 +1000
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From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]
>I'm not sure if you were asking
>me or Mr. Feist, but I knew a couple of them, just not all.  Oh just so
>you know an Olly Nosebone is a skater trick.  I knew that from my years
>as a skater, my post was just to show that some of us Americans don't
>even understand everything he's saying, I couldn't even imagine trying
>to read through it if I wasn't a native speaker.  Thanks for the help
>and have a good day.
>            Steve Weghorn
No problem.
>From: "A Irving" 
>I know a little l337 but I am 'flu3n7'. It annoys me aswell. 
Meant to say not fluent.

CIAO, 
         Aaron 
  
http://www.hallofworlds.net/kerr/main.php 
http://www.nightshadow.co.uk 



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From: "David Christensen" <damc84@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Languages of Midkemia
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From: "David Christensen" <damc84@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Languages of Midkemia
Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2002 04:26:06 +0000
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I believe the original poster wanted information on Midkemian languages so 
that he(she?) could integrate them in a roleplaying game. As it so happens, 
I tried my hand at a play-by-email game once, based on a number of RPG 
modules from the Midkemia roleplaying game - it sort of died out, but at 
least I came up with a decent way of fitting languages into the rules. FYI, 
I used 3rd edition D&D rules. At any rate, the 'common tongue' of a 
character was determined by wether or not he or she came from the Kingdom or 
Kesh, with the Kingdom tongue and Keshian being the two main languages 
respectively . Next, each character came with a bonus tongue depending where 
he or she came from within the Kingdom or Empire. A Darkmoorian would speak 
that, a Rodezian would be able to speak that, etc.. - for non-human races, i 
ruled that there would really be no difference between glamredhel and edhel 
elven, but thats your call. Perhaps you could say that the dwarves of 
Novindus would have a very hard time understanding Kingdom dwarves, as the 
glamredhel there couldn't understand edhel (its in the books).

Specialty classes, like the sorcerer or mage, could learn Valheru if I 
recall correctly - to aid in deciphering ancient tomes. Valheru as a power 
language, i.e one where you could enslave a creature simply by saying a few 
words in that language, was out of the question from a DM point of view - 
wouldn't want power gamers running about now would we. Draconic, abysmal, 
infernal, and other languages listed in the player's handbook could also be 
chosen as bonus languages.

Peace.

David


>From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: Re: Languages of Midkemia
>Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 09:15:15 -0700
>
>
>On Wednesday, July 31, 2002, at 02:45 AM, Chris Vance wrote:
>
>>Isalan is part of Great Kesh. So it would not be to
>>far fetched to consider that Keshian is the language
>>used in Isalan. On that note, maybe we can consider
>>Isalan a dialect.... Waddaya Say Ray
>>
>
>God, I hate turning this into a linguistics course.
>
>Isalan was a nation conquered by Kesh ages earlier.  It's now part of the 
>Empire.  Everyone there speaks Keshian.  But most of the native born there 
>also speak Isalani.   Just as people in New Orelans often speak Creol 
>French, or people in Barcellona speak Catalan as well as Spanish.
>
>Rodezian and Bas-Tyran are langauges, not dialects.  A dialect is a style 
>of speech within a language, used by a common population.  So, Cockney is a 
>dialect of English.  Welsh Gallic isn't; it's a dialect of Gallic, 
>different from Scottish Gallic or Irish Gallic.
>
>Then you have a patois, also known as argot, jargon, lingo, or venacular 
>speech.  I only differentiate these from dialect because in my mind they're 
>more localized, such as the patrois of a district of Paris, rather than the 
>Parisian dialect.
>
>When two or more more languages mesh, you have a pidgin.  There was a 
>Pidgin English used during the Viet Nam war, for example, that let G.I.'s 
>speak to native speakers of Vietnamese, that both sides could understand.
>
>When people are born who speak a pidgin as a native languages, that 
>languages is then called a creol.  The French spoken in Montreal or New 
>Orleans are creols.  Swahili is a creol, mostly Bantu with Arabic, English, 
>and German thrown in.
>
>In Midkemia, The Common Tongue (or Common) is ued in both the Kingdom and 
>Kesh, and it's a creol.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
>stupidity.




_________________________________________________________________
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How does one remove themselves from the list?
I dont fit in with the snobbery here it seems
all very good points but I see none of there second language english people 
complaining to me for themselves
and an example was made out of my by james
I take it as flaming because I can
so tell me how to get off and ill leave you all alone


>From: "Rhyaeth" <vaeyn@hotmail.com>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
>Subject: Re: James The Flamer
>Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2002 10:42:19 +1000
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
>To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
>Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2002 11:59 PM
>Subject: Re: James The Flamer
>
>
> > At 14:14 31/07/2002, Rhyaeth spake thusly:
> > >> i live in australia
> > >
> > >>So?  That does not mean your English automatically is correct.
> > >
> > >Ok, I don't think he was saying it in quite that context. I think all 
>he
> > >meant was that he lives in an English speaking country. Don't turn this
>into
> > >a race thing.
> >
> > Huh?  How is that a race thing?  It sounds to me like your
> > triggers are set a little too hair-pin.
> >
> > Just because you live in a country, doesn't mean that you speak
> > the native language correctly.
> >
> > I'm American.  I have lived in Germany, France (and to a lesser
> > extent short periods in Russia and Ukraine).  None of those
> > countries have English as the native language, yet they
> > are generally of the same 'race'.  Do you see yet where
> > 'race' doesn't come into it?  We are talking about /language/.
> >
> > "I lived in Germany".  That doesn't mean that my German is
> > absolutely correct.  Shoot, just ask my wife.
> >
> > "I lived in France."  that doesn't mean that my French is
> > absolutely correct.  Shoot, just ask Syl.
> >
> > Hell, I live in England now, and that doesn't mean that
> > my /English/ is absolutely correct.  But at least I damn
> > sure /try/.
> >
> > rip
> >
>
>I actually went to bed knowing I'd taken that remark out of context. My
>appologies. I misread, and jumped the gun. Cotinuous late nights are to
>blame. =)




_________________________________________________________________
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From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: James The Flamer
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/me shakes head.

You've got to learn not to take everything as a personal insult.
Just because these people aren't complaining doesn't mean you shouldn't
consider them. I mean,  you wouldn't go around killing people and
thought
it
was 'ok to do' because no one was complaining at the time.
Its a simple courtesy.

However, I don't think you should leave the list over such a trivial
conflict.

> How does one remove themselves from the list?
> I dont fit in with the snobbery here it seems
> all very good points but I see none of there second language english people
> complaining to me for themselves
> and an example was made out of my by james
> I take it as flaming because I can
> so tell me how to get off and ill leave you all alone
>
>
> >From: "Rhyaeth" <vaeyn@hotmail.com>
> >Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> >To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> >Subject: Re: James The Flamer
> >Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2002 10:42:19 +1000
> >
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
> >To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> >Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2002 11:59 PM
> >Subject: Re: James The Flamer
> >
> >
> > > At 14:14 31/07/2002, Rhyaeth spake thusly:
> > > >> i live in australia
> > > >
> > > >>So?  That does not mean your English automatically is correct.
> > > >
> > > >Ok, I don't think he was saying it in quite that context. I think all
> >he
> > > >meant was that he lives in an English speaking country. Don't turn this
> >into
> > > >a race thing.
> > >
> > > Huh?  How is that a race thing?  It sounds to me like your
> > > triggers are set a little too hair-pin.
> > >
> > > Just because you live in a country, doesn't mean that you speak
> > > the native language correctly.
> > >
> > > I'm American.  I have lived in Germany, France (and to a lesser
> > > extent short periods in Russia and Ukraine).  None of those
> > > countries have English as the native language, yet they
> > > are generally of the same 'race'.  Do you see yet where
> > > 'race' doesn't come into it?  We are talking about /language/.
> > >
> > > "I lived in Germany".  That doesn't mean that my German is
> > > absolutely correct.  Shoot, just ask my wife.
> > >
> > > "I lived in France."  that doesn't mean that my French is
> > > absolutely correct.  Shoot, just ask Syl.
> > >
> > > Hell, I live in England now, and that doesn't mean that
> > > my /English/ is absolutely correct.  But at least I damn
> > > sure /try/.
> > >
> > > rip
> > >
> >
> >I actually went to bed knowing I'd taken that remark out of context. My
> >appologies. I misread, and jumped the gun. Cotinuous late nights are to
> >blame. =)
>
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
> http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
>
>

Thanks
Darragh
================================================
msn: iamtheporkfireman@hotmail.com

"Believe or die - thank you O lord for all those
 options" - Bill Hicks.
================================================



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On Wednesday, July 31, 2002, at 02:57 PM, Jud Partin wrote:

> Possible Spoiler for Serpentwar Saga:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Raymond Feist wrote:
>
>> On Wednesday, July 31, 2002, at 07:52 AM, Jud Partin wrote:
>>
>>> AS for a new, nicer topic...
>>>
>>> Quick, easy question: Who is Al-maral?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> A name for Ishapians who got involved in a heresy.  They claimed there
>> was only one god, Al-maral and all the other gods, including Ishap, 
>> were
>> but merely faces of that one god.
>>
>> Best, R.E.F.
>> ----
>>
>> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
>> stupidity.
>
> So is Al-maral the same as who Macros called "The Ultimate"? Or who 
> Nakor
> called "The Is"? I noticed that these titles, and their pronouns, were
> capitalized in the book- RoaDK I think-, but god is not capitalized for 
> the
> other gods in the books (and not above either which may be the answer 
> to my
> question). Seeing to where as most of us are from a mono-theistic 
> religious
> background (with the large exception of Hindus, of course), it makes 
> sense
> that that belief is reflected.
>
> Therefore, the other gods, worlds, races and people are all creations 
> of The
> Is- the One who showed Pug, Tomas, and Macros the Beginning of their
> universe- which is close to the definition above for Al-maral..
>
> But why do not the Kingdom or Kesh or Roldem, etc. have The Ultimate 
> listed
> in their beliefs?
>
> ...also to interject an opinion. I've always thought that Nakor was an
> "unknowing" agent of The Is. That would explain his thrist for 
> knowledge,
> his dark, dark side, his bright, light side, his non-belief in magic, 
> his
> joy and excitement over teaching a baby God, his want to do good, 
> establish
> the order of Arch-Indar and combat Nalar- the mad one, and other issues
> about him.
>
> -Jud
>
>
>
>

The "Ultimate" is intentionally vague, signifying a concept of something 
out there that is where the buck stops.  If you're a monotheist, it's 
God or the Godhead, or if you're a Hindu, it's Trimurti, etc.    But for 
the Midkemian universe, I've intentionally avoided any ultimate, save 
the Ishapians (in their vanity) call Ishap "the one over all."  Macro is 
talking about something farther up the food chain.

For something easy, think of it as "The Force."

Best, R.E.F>
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Subject: Re: James The Flamer
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*** EOOH ***
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From: "James Barker" <heechee@softhome.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: James The Flamer
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2002 18:33:20 +1000
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Greg Bulloch" <somedude1_2000@hotmail.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2002 3:56 PM
Subject: Re: James The Flamer


> How does one remove themselves from the list?
> I dont fit in with the snobbery here it seems
> all very good points but I see none of there second language english people
> complaining to me for themselves
> and an example was made out of my by james
> I take it as flaming because I can
> so tell me how to get off and ill leave you all alone

If you want out, send a message to listproc@cornell.edu with the words
UNSUBSCRIBE FEISTFANS-L in the message body. However, you shouldn't take
this so damn personally! My message wasn't a flame, and it wasn't aimed at
you in particular -- I didn't make an example out of you.

It's not "snobbery" to expect you to obey a set of rules when you join a
group or organisation. You sound like you're fairly young (forgive me if I'm
wrong), so I don't know if you've got/had a job or not -- however, this is
in many ways similar to working. Your workplace will not readjust itself
around you just because you're too lazy to wear uniform or talk nicely to
customers, and it's not "snobbery" of them to expect you to fit in with
their policies and rules.

So don't take it to heart, and reconsider your decision to leave the list.
If you make an effort to stick to the rules in place (all there for good
reasons, and to help everybody out, not to make life hard for you), then
you'll be a feistfans regular in no time.

Cheers,
James

P.S. If you really want to act childishly and keep arguing, email me at
heechee@softhome.net and I'll be happy to show you what a real flame looks
like. I need to keep in practice. :)



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In-reply-to: <F98RCMNa2dkFpnzQdwh0000330d@hotmail.com>
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Donal K. Fellows" <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Couple of pointers (Was Re: New to this list)
Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2002 09:39:49 +0100
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"Steve Weghorn" <pelvislives@hotmail.com>
> I'm not sure if you were asking me or Mr. Feist, but I knew a couple
> of them, just not all.  Oh just so you know an Olly Nosebone is a
> skater trick.  I knew that from my years as a skater, my post was just
> to show that some of us Americans don't even understand everything
> he's saying, I couldn't even imagine trying to read through it if I
> wasn't a native speaker.  Thanks for the help and have a good day.

While we're on a nit-pick session, stop posting in HTML only Steve.
Please.  You're the only person who does it.  Even two-part HTML and
plain text (which is disgustingly wasteful of resources) is better.

Donal.
-- 
Donal K. Fellows, Department of Computer Science, University of Manchester, UK.
(work) fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk     Tel: +44-161-275-6137  (preferred email addr.)
(home) donal@ugglan.demon.co.uk  Tel: +44-1274-401017   Mobile: +44-7957-298955
http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~fellowsd/  (Don't quote my .sig; I've seen it before!)



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Subject: I'm back...
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Jason Martin" <res0b95g@verizon.net>
To: "Feistfans" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: I'm back...
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2002 01:42:01 -0700
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    Well back from vacation (only a week, but still nice) and looks
liked I miss some good stuff while I was gone.  Now the hard part of
being back is to stay caught up on all the threads that are going on
by jumping in the middle of them.  Hopefully I can actually contribute
to some discussion and not just lurk, but boy do kids just suck the
time out of you!  Not sure how I'm going to manage that when my wife
and I expect our next one at the end of November..  From all
indications from the ultrasound looks like we will have a little girl.
After she is born I'm sure I'll be a major lurker.
    Anyhow Looking forward to getting the new books imported one of
these days and sit down and read them at work.  Its nice to be back.

Night,

Jason

"He who can destroy a thing, controls a thing."
                 Muad'Dib 

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Subject: Re: James The Flamer
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2002 09:54:51 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: James The Flamer
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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At 02:16 01/08/2002, vlukic.george spake thusly:

>> Only 3 times?  In this mail alone there are lots of errors.
>> Hints:  Sentences are supposed to start with a capital letter.
>> Punctuation is important.  There is no word 'i' in English (the word
>> 'I' do exist on the other hand.)
>
>Shouldn't that be "'I' does exist..."?

Yep.  Simple typo.  Not to be confused with Mr. Bulloch's
rampant non-standard usage.

>I was under the impression that to write it the way you did, you'd have to
>use the plural form and write "'I's do exist..."

But we'd avoid at all costs constructions like that ( 'I's ...) 
simply because of the confusion about apostrophes.  Is it 'Is', 
or 'I's' or "I's" or 'I's or ...

'I' does exist.  I does! I tell you, I does!  

And it's about time for this:

Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 13:35:59 +0100
From: Richard Williamson <rip@wi...>
Subject: Re: Another way...

A Poem, By Richard Williamson, in the style of Dr. Seuss:

I shall leave his elucidation to my peers,
I will not box him about the head, the ears,
no slim olive branches nor baseball bats,
no chainsaws, hardcovers nor raging Kats.

Nor shall I rip his throat out with my teeth,
I'm counting cloud-based lifeforms above the heath.

Hey, you, it's not 'u', and I am not 'i' (Very!).
and 'l8er' won't be found in a dictionary.

... I think I should add another verse.  And oh, 'Kat' was
a character on the list back then.  Anyone know what's
happened to her?  Is she lurking or has she vanish'd?

Or I could try AA Milne.  Let's see...

"Oh you," I said, "you who would use 'u' to mean 'you'",
said I, "are a person of Very Little Brain."
 

rip



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2002 09:56:27 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: RE: Couple of pointers (Was Re: New to this list)
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At 00:20 01/08/2002, A Irving spake thusly:
>I know a little l337 but I am [not] 'flu3n7'. It annoys me aswell.

Um.  Can anyone give me an etymology of 'l337' ?

And for Trym, I /think/ "hax0r" is supposed to be pronounced
'hacker'. 

rip



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From: "Henrik Grotle" <henrik@arasoft.no>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
References: <F259CEvyM1gbjQg8lFK0002323e@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: James The Flamer
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2002 11:30:13 +0200
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From: "Henrik Grotle" <henrik@arasoft.no>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: James The Flamer
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> How does one remove themselves from the list?
> I dont fit in with the snobbery here it seems
> all very good points but I see none of there second language english people
> complaining to me for themselves
> and an example was made out of my by james
> I take it as flaming because I can
> so tell me how to get off and ill leave you all alone

Since you pointed out that "none of second language English people" had been
complaining I thought I'd have my say. I'm a Norwegian chap and I've had to
stop several times to think twice about what you (and others that have an
habit of writing non-standard English on this list) were trying to say. I've
been on the net since '95 and have seen the language on the net deteriorate
throughout the years (this is also happening with the Norwegian language),
so I've become accustomed to how certain l33t hax0rs write. I'm not saying
you're a l33t hax0r (those are worse) as you're just abbreviating in a
rather non-standard way. I do understand what you write, but not without a
certain amount of "parsing" your sentences. Also, you're lack of punctuation
and capitalization does not make things easier. Please make an effort to
conform to standard writing rules as far as your knowledge will allow.

Well, that was just my two cents.

Henrik.



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From: "Michael Connolly" <data3@dodo.com.au>
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References: <F229r8pkpLkTgbLYluL000223a9@hotmail.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20020731134956.00a76788@mail.swindon.wrsec.fr> <VAwLdBE$qAS9Ewf$@bloodaxe.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: James The Flamer
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Michael Connolly" <data3@dodo.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: James The Flamer
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2002 19:57:22 +1000
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> If hundreds of people are going to be giving up their
> valuable time to read what I write, as is the case with a mailing list
> like this, it's only polite to take the couple of extra minutes to get
> it right rather than wasting their time by producing a post that's hard
> to read. It's would be very rude to assume that their time is less
> valuable than mine.

Thats OK Andrea, my time is pretty much worthless. :)
Maybe I've spent too much time on forums but the bastard English doesn't
really annoy me all that much, but I respect other people's opinion's, so I
won't argue the point. Suffice to say, I won't be annoyed by improper
English, but to keep everyone happy, I suppose the good old original English
is the way to go. Well, here at least. *grin*

Michael



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From: "Wouter Durnez" <arutha_of_krondor@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re: James The Flamer
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From: "Wouter Durnez" <arutha_of_krondor@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: James The Flamer
Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2002 10:03:54 +0000
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>From: "James Barker" <HEECHEE@SOFTHOME.NET>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu 
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu 
>Subject: Re: James The Flamer 
>Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2002 18:33:20 +1000 
> 
> 
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: "Greg Bulloch" <SOMEDUDE1_2000@HOTMAIL.COM>
>To: <FEISTFANS-L@CORNELL.EDU>
>Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2002 3:56 PM 
>Subject: Re: James The Flamer 
> 
> 
> > How does one remove themselves from the list? 
> > I dont fit in with the snobbery here it seems 
> > all very good points but I see none of there second language english 
>people 
> > complaining to me for themselves 
> > and an example was made out of my by james 
> > I take it as flaming because I can 
> > so tell me how to get off and ill leave you all alone 
> 
>If you want out, send a message to listproc@cornell.edu with the words 
>UNSUBSCRIBE FEISTFANS-L in the message body. However, you shouldn't take 
>this so damn personally! My message wasn't a flame, and it wasn't aimed at 
>you in particular -- I didn't make an example out of you. 
> 
>It's not "snobbery" to expect you to obey a set of rules when you join a 
>group or organisation. You sound like you're fairly young (forgive me if I'm 
>wrong), so I don't know if you've got/had a job or not -- however, this is 
>in many ways similar to working. Your workplace will not readjust itself 
>around you just because you're too lazy to wear uniform or talk nicely to 
>customers, and it's not "snobbery" of them to expect you to fit in with 
>their policies and rules. 
> 
>So don't take it to heart, and reconsider your decision to leave the list. 
>If you make an effort to stick to the rules in place (all there for good 
>reasons, and to help everybody out, not to make life hard for you), then 
>you'll be a feistfans regular in no time. 
> 
>Cheers, 
>James 
> 
>P.S. If you really want to act childishly and keep arguing, email me at 
>heechee@softhome.net and I'll be happy to show you what a real flame looks 
>like. I need to keep in practice. :) 

Please guys, knock it off. It's getting rather boring, to see you
arguing about something that has already been made perfectly clear by
several listmembers. Greg is wrong. I guess his pride forbids him to
give in, or something like that. If he wants to leave, let him. These
discussions are not necessary at all, although I appreciate that
you're trying to keep this list understandable for foreign people,
like me. But if he won't give in, fine. Au revoir, then.

Thanks,
Wouter

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From: Tim Nicholas <tim@nicholas.net.nz>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Couple of pointers (Was Re: New to this list)
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2002 22:27:14 +1200
From: Tim Nicholas <tim@nicholas.net.nz>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Couple of pointers (Was Re: New to this list)
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Hi rip.
1337 is hax0r speak for 'elite'. Via 31337 (eleet) and then dropped
down to 1337 (leet).

hax0r does come from 'hacker' but i find that it is more often
pronounced as 'hacks-or'. 

"1337 hax0r" (leet hacks-or) is in my experience most often used with a
healthy dose of irony to describe script kiddies, who are most
defiantly not elite hackers.

Tim

PS. If you have ever watched the more 'Hackers' you may remember
that they used the word 'elite' with amusing frequency. I assume
that the word was used in hacker/cracker culture before that but I'm
not sure as I only turned in to a complete computer geek sometime
after the movie was made.

On Thu, Aug 01, 2002 at 09:56:27AM +0100, Richard Williamson wrote:
> At 00:20 01/08/2002, A Irving spake thusly:
> >I know a little l337 but I am [not] 'flu3n7'. It annoys me aswell.
> 
> Um.  Can anyone give me an etymology of 'l337' ?
> 
> And for Trym, I /think/ "hax0r" is supposed to be pronounced
> 'hacker'. 
> 
> rip
> 
> 

-- 
Tim Nicholas                          ||                      Cilix
Email: tim@nicholas.net.nz            ||       Dunedin, New Zealand
http://tim.nicholas.net.nz/           ||  Cell/SMS: +64 21 113 0399



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2002 13:00:03 +0200
From: Caranorn Aglaredhel <caranorn@cmdnet.lu>
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Subject: Re: James The Flamer
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Want a complaint from an english as second language person? Consider you 
just got it. For me the main problem of non-standard english on the 
internet is mostly how infectious it is. I learned Oxford-english, lived 
for years in the UK and the US and while my written english was never 
perfect, it was good. After 7 years on the internet I find my skill has 
greatly declined (and that's not only due to senility).

As an addition, non standard writting is annoying to many people, not 
just non native speakers. I tends to take much longer to read such text 
then those properly written.

Lastly I know that I myself tend to be lazy and do not correct my posts 
(and type fast two finger style (I learned 10 finger but that was years 
ago and never had a computer with the same keyboard since)). But at 
least I try to correct every error once i notice it (<-- I'll leave that 
i in on purpouse, an actual typo:-)


By the way, the original post described as a flame used smilies to avoid 
a flame war. I tend to be fast to bait, but am sure i would not have 
considered an email like that as any form of attack.

Marc aka Caran... back to lurking

Greg Bulloch wrote:

> How does one remove themselves from the list?
> I dont fit in with the snobbery here it seems
> all very good points but I see none of there second language english 
> people complaining to me for themselves
> and an example was made out of my by james
> I take it as flaming because I can
> so tell me how to get off and ill leave you all alone




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I would just like to add to the topic of using slang/bastard/dialect
versions of a language
that this has happened since people began to communicate verbally. 
All languages develop over time and there are always people who bemoan this
citing
that it isn't "proper" English (substitute any language). However it is a
fact that the language
you speak today is very different from the language people spoke in times
gone by regardless
of your particular preferred language. Indeed phrases my late grandmother
used as a child are
no longer in use today and phrases we use today just didn't exist in her
day!
Then there are regional differences within the same country.
An example of this is the English language which itself has many regional
variations within
the UK, indeed someone from the far south of England can find it difficult
to understand someone
from the Midlands (and vice versa (Etymology: Latin)) a distance no more
than 300 miles away!
Yet they are speaking the same language!
All languages develop and just because one group of people (SMS users in
this instance) have found a way
to communicate via the written word using abbreviations shouldn't exclude
them from discussion or debate.
One could argue that the rest of us should be open to this form of written
communication and if not embrace
it then in the least accept it and even learn it. After all people who use
the English language as their first
language have always been less tolerant of learning another language and
generally expect to be understood
where ever they are in the world. 
This is a bigoted attitude IMHO (In My Honest Opinion - to those unfamiliar
with the IM (Instant Messaging) language LOL (Laughs Out Loud) :-) (a symbol
used to express a smile).
You see, when someone points out anothers shortcomings in using a language
they should look
to themselves sometimes! The previous paragraph could have seemed gibberish
to those unfamiliar
to the peculiar "language" of "net speak" without the explanations, yet most
people on this list
use these and other forms of non-standard communication. A newbie to the
Internet can easily be
baffled when trying to communicate in a chat forum yet is expected to learn
quickly these abbreviations
and symbols of emotions (emoticons).
My point here is although no-one was actually flamed (to send an angry,
hostile, or abusive electronic message to or about somone - Merriam-Webster
dictionary (another word to appear in the English dictionary recently) there
seemed to be a certain intolerance to someones prefered method of
communicating by the very people
who seem to embrace "net speak" which itself is not wholley intergrated into
commonly accepted language!
A lot was mentioned about others not being able to understand certain
abbreviations such as "b" and "some1"
yet the same people who made this point use abbreviations such as "LOL" and 
IMHO" and emoticons!
Remember that this method of communication is no different as it is used as
a form af shorthand too!
Finally I have no problem with people giving others advice if they first
practice what they are preaching.
It seems very few of us do!
Regards
Chris
"History is more or less bunk. It's tradition. We don't want tradition. We
want to live in the present and the only history that is worth a tinker's
damn is the history we made today." 
Henry Ford (1863 - 1947), Interview in Chicago Tribune, May 25th, 1916

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Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2002 13:41:23 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: No different. Was(Re: James The Flamer)
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Hi Chris,

Good post, by the way. 

The problem is not its use, per se.  The problem is its use
in a forum which has a culture where the kind of over-abbreviated
usages as described in your post is frowned upon.

I can not prevent anyone from using that method of *ahem*
communication in other venues.  In this venue, however, it
is expected that standard English is the norm.  Oder deutsch.
Ou français for that matter.  Or Letzebuergisch.  

Ok, maybe not Letzebuergisch.

rip
-- 


At 12:23 01/08/2002, Milamber spake thusly:

>I would just like to add to the topic of using slang/bastard/dialect versions of a language
>that this has happened since people began to communicate verbally. 
>
>All languages develop over time and there are always people who bemoan this citing
>that it isn't "proper" English (substitute any language). However it is a fact that the language
>you speak today is very different from the language people spoke in times gone by regardless
>of your particular preferred language. Indeed phrases my late grandmother used as a child are
>no longer in use today and phrases we use today just didn't exist in her day!
>Then there are regional differences within the same country.
>An example of this is the English language which itself has many regional variations within
>the UK, indeed someone from the far south of England can find it difficult to understand someone
>from the Midlands (and vice versa (Etymology: Latin)) a distance no more than 300 miles away!
>Yet they are speaking the same language!
>
>All languages develop and just because one group of people (SMS users in this instance) have found a way
>to communicate via the written word using abbreviations shouldn't exclude them from discussion or debate.
>One could argue that the rest of us should be open to this form of written communication and if not embrace
>it then in the least accept it and even learn it. After all people who use the English language as their first
>language have always been less tolerant of learning another language and generally expect to be understood
>where ever they are in the world. 
>
>This is a bigoted attitude IMHO (In My Honest Opinion - to those unfamiliar
>with the IM (Instant Messaging) language LOL (Laughs Out Loud) :-) (a symbol used to express a smile).
>
>You see, when someone points out anothers shortcomings in using a language they should look
>to themselves sometimes! The previous paragraph could have seemed gibberish to those unfamiliar
>to the peculiar "language" of "net speak" without the explanations, yet most people on this list
>use these and other forms of non-standard communication. A newbie to the Internet can easily be
>baffled when trying to communicate in a chat forum yet is expected to learn quickly these abbreviations
>and symbols of emotions (emoticons).
>
>My point here is although no-one was actually flamed (to send an angry, hostile, or abusive electronic message to or about somone - Merriam-Webster dictionary (another word to appear in the English dictionary recently) there seemed to be a certain intolerance to someones prefered method of communicating by the very people
>who seem to embrace "net speak" which itself is not wholley intergrated into commonly accepted language!
>
>A lot was mentioned about others not being able to understand certain abbreviations such as "b" and "some1"
>yet the same people who made this point use abbreviations such as "LOL" and "IMHO" and emoticons!
>Remember that this method of communication is no different as it is used as a form af shorthand too!
>
>Finally I have no problem with people giving others advice if they first practice what they are preaching.
>It seems very few of us do!
>
>Regards
>Chris
>"History is more or less bunk. It's tradition. We don't want tradition. We want to live in the present and the only history that is worth a tinker's damn is the history we made today." 
>Henry Ford (1863 - 1947), Interview in Chicago Tribune, May 25th, 1916
>____________________________________________________
>  IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved - <http://www.incredimail.com/redir.asp?ad_id=309&lang=9>Click Here 



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Thanks for clearing that up, Tim.

Regards,
rip

At 11:27 01/08/2002, Tim Nicholas spake thusly:
>Hi rip.
>1337 is hax0r speak for 'elite'. Via 31337 (eleet) and then dropped
>down to 1337 (leet).
>
>hax0r does come from 'hacker' but i find that it is more often
>pronounced as 'hacks-or'. 
>
>"1337 hax0r" (leet hacks-or) is in my experience most often used with a
>healthy dose of irony to describe script kiddies, who are most
>defiantly not elite hackers.



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"Greg Bulloch" <somedude1_2000@hotmail.com> writes:

> How does one remove themselves from the list?  I dont fit in with
> the snobbery here it seems all very good points but I see none of
> there second language english people complaining to me for
> themselves

  Ok, here you have it. I'm complaining, and english isn't my native
  language. I can tell you that the way you write is so
  incomprehensible that I added you to my killfile because I don't
  have the time to try and translate from h4x0r spelling to real
  spelling.

  Now you can leave knowing that your typing, indeed, is a pain for
  ESL readers.

  Vox

-- 
Think of the Linux community as a niche economy isolated by its beliefs.  Kind
of like the Amish, except that our religion requires us to use _higher_
technology than everyone else.	     -- Donald B. Marti Jr.



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From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Who is...
Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2002 09:49:48 -0400
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From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Who is...
Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2002 09:49:48 -0400
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>>>Hi Ray, two questions:


Possible Spoiler for Serpentwar Saga:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>A name for Ishapians who got involved in a heresy.  They claimed there
>>>was only one god, Al-maral and all the other gods, including Ishap, were
>>>but merely faces of that one god.
>>>
>>>Best, R.E.F.

1. So Al-Maral and Ishap are the same god according to everyone but the 
Al-Maral faction faction who actually differentate him fomr Ishap?


>>>----
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>The "Ultimate" is intentionally vague, signifying a concept of something 
>out there that is where the buck stops.  If you're a monotheist, it's God 
>or the Godhead, or if you're a Hindu, it's Trimurti, etc.    But for the 
>Midkemian universe, I've intentionally avoided any ultimate, save the 
>Ishapians (in their vanity) call Ishap "the one over all."  Macro is 
>talking about something farther up the food chain.
>
>For something easy, think of it as "The Force."
>
>Best, R.E.F>

2. So in "reality" Ishap is no higher than the other controller gods 
(Arch-Indar, Nalar, Ev-Dem, Abram-Sev, Graf, Helbinor) except in the eyes of 
the vain Ishapians?

Adieu

Jimmy
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
>stupidity.




Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary 
Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
   -- Benjamin Franklin



_________________________________________________________________
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Subject: Re: James The Flamer
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From: Dun Xiahou <xiahoudun13@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: James The Flamer
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--- Greg Bulloch <somedude1_2000@hotmail.com> wrote:
> ok.....this is the second time ive been flamed for
> saying some1 and b etc
> ------snip---------

All I have to say is, at least you don't speak in
"leet"

example:

F3!57  |2(_)13ZZZZZ!!!11

- Xiahou Dun

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better
http://health.yahoo.com



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Subject: Re: talon extract, voyager
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--- Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com> wrote:
---snip----
> I don't find it frightening.  It's not aimed at the
> casual user who 
> downloads M3's or MEP files they haven't paid for. 
> This is more like 
> seeking authorization for a wire-tap and will be
> used to go after 
> commercial pirate sites.  Does it have the potential
> for abuse? Sure, as 
> does wire-tap, but while Martin Luther King was
> abused by J. Edgar 
> Hoover's boys in that regard, no one I know suffered
> from an illegal 
> wiretap.
> 
> I doubt anyone I know will have their system scanned
> for illegal 
> copyrighted material, either.
> 
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
> 
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be
> explained away by 
> stupidity.
> 

A friend of mine's mother had her phoneline tapped
during the Nixxon administration after she said she
didn't agree with "that whole Vietnam thing" during
her local "Republican Mother's" meeting.

More recently, I in fact had my phoneline tapped
during the first Clinton election after speaking out
at a Republican convention.  It was quite a shock to
find the tap, and I felt rather violated by it.  I
don't like the idea of someone listening in on my
phonecalls, especially the ones I made to my
girlfriend at the time.

- Xiahou Dun

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better
http://health.yahoo.com



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From: Andrea J Chee <andrea@bloodaxe.com>
Subject: Re: No different. Was(Re: James The Flamer)
References: <20020731123918.GA5313@falcon.midgard.homeip.net>
 <3D491A40.000003.37489@j4a8e8>
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Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2002 15:50:38 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: Andrea J Chee <andrea@bloodaxe.com>
Subject: Re: No different. Was(Re: James The Flamer)
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In article <3D491A40.000003.37489@j4a8e8>, Milamber
<milamber_aka_pug@hotmail.com> writes
>
>An example of this is the English language which itself has many regional
>variations within
>the UK, indeed someone from the far south of England can find it difficult
>to understand someone
>from the Midlands (and vice versa (Etymology: Latin)) a distance no more
>than 300 miles away!

That's indeed true, as someone like me who has lived strong connections
with everywhere from Devon through the Black Country to the Highlands
has experienced. There's absolutely nothing wrong with regional
variations. However, when you visit somewhere, if you want to be
understood, you have to be the one to make the effort to use language
they'll understand - the onus isn't on the Cornish to be able to speak
Scouse or Brummie or whatever to a visitor. If I know the acceptable
regional variant, I can use it. However, if I don't, I have to use
language they've a chance of comprehending. Same with travelling
overseas - the options are to speak the native language if I know it or
to use English with as much clarity as possible to give them the best
chance to understand me. It would be rather rude of me to speak to them
in a third language and demand they learn it.

>All languages develop and just because one group of people (SMS users in
>this instance) have found a way
>to communicate via the written word using abbreviations shouldn't exclude
>them from discussion or debate.

It doesn't exclude them from debate in any way shape or form. It does
put the onus on them to use language which has the best chance to be
understood in the place they are virtually visiting. This isn't a txt
forum, it's an English-language one. Our non-English speakers on the
list make highly creditable attempts to be understood, why should the
txt folks not be expected to do the same? After all, most of them
actually know the language and are choosing not to use it. It's like me
insisting on talking to English folks in French when I can speak English
perfectly well, in spite of being in England and most people not being
able to speak French.
>
>One could argue that the rest of us should be open to this form of written
>communication and if not embrace
>it then in the least accept it and even learn it. After all people who use
>the English language as their first
>language have always been less tolerant of learning another language and
>generally expect to be understood
>where ever they are in the world. 

This is true, however I have found that attitude is changing somewhat -
increasing numbers of English people have a passable second language.
The problem with English though is that it is everywhere. No-one can
learn every language, so it is useful to have a language in common. For
historical reasons, this is usually English. A Japanese visitor in Spain
is likely to find their only common language is English. Even English
folks with excellent foreign languages regularly use English overseas -
few people restrict their travels to just one region and no matter how
good their German or French it's going to be English that's likely to
serve them best in Thailand. That's not absence of tolerance, it's just
making their best effort to get their message across.

However, this isn't really relevant to the list. This is an English-
language forum where the 'native' language is English. It's no more
'bigoted' to expect English to be used here than it is to expect it to
be used in London. If you expect everyone to accept and learn mystery
techie languages for use here, then our overseas friends have every
right to expect you to learn French, German, Swedish, Greek,
Afrikaans...

If I were to virtually visit wherever these mystery 1337 folks (whatever
they are) hang out, I'd have to learn to understand them and have them
understand me, which would likely mean English in the first instance
then increasingly whatever they call this new language of theirs. It
would be very unfair and rude of me to expect them to converse with me
in a third language they don't know in their own forum.

> The previous paragraph could have seemed gibberish
>to those unfamiliar
>to the peculiar "language" of "net speak" without the explanations, yet most
>people on this list
>use these and other forms of non-standard communication. A newbie to the
>Internet can easily be
>baffled when trying to communicate in a chat forum yet is expected to learn
>quickly these abbreviations
>and symbols of emotions (emoticons).

Slightly different. TLAs and emoticons are part of the language of the
internet in general, and are not confined to specific groups or forums.
Nevertheless, it's about whether something is appropriate in a given
environment - while they're okay on the net, I won't be using them in
the Kennel Gazette and expecting the doggie folks to learn them so they
can understand me! 

Even so, I frequently send out a link to an acronym dictionary to
newbies, as do many others - not because they're necessarily expected to
use them here (TLA use is fairly limited here), but because they will be
useful on the net in general.

- ANDREA

-- 
^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^
                  ANDROMEDA - Internet Goddess
<andrea@bloodaxe.com>                    http://www.bloodaxe.com/
Bloodaxe's History Links:   http://www.geocities.com/Athens/5055/
The Loony Bin Archive:               http://www.theloonies.co.uk/



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Subject: Re: Who is...
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2002 09:16:57 -0700
Subject: Re: Who is...
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Thursday, August 1, 2002, at 06:49 AM, James Silva wrote:

>
>>>> Hi Ray, two questions:
>
>
> Possible Spoiler for Serpentwar Saga:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> A name for Ishapians who got involved in a heresy.  They claimed 
>>>> there
>>>> was only one god, Al-maral and all the other gods, including Ishap, 
>>>> were
>>>> but merely faces of that one god.
>>>>
>>>> Best, R.E.F.
>
> 1. So Al-Maral and Ishap are the same god according to everyone but the 
> Al-Maral faction faction who actually differentate him fomr Ishap?

Yes, but the Al-Maral faction claim he's only a face of the one god.

>
>
>>>> ----
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> The "Ultimate" is intentionally vague, signifying a concept of 
>> something out there that is where the buck stops.  If you're a 
>> monotheist, it's God or the Godhead, or if you're a Hindu, it's 
>> Trimurti, etc.    But for the Midkemian universe, I've intentionally 
>> avoided any ultimate, save the Ishapians (in their vanity) call Ishap 
>> "the one over all."  Macro is talking about something farther up the 
>> food chain.
>>
>> For something easy, think of it as "The Force."
>>
>> Best, R.E.F>
>
> 2. So in "reality" Ishap is no higher than the other controller gods 
> (Arch-Indar, Nalar, Ev-Dem, Abram-Sev, Graf, Helbinor) except in the 
> eyes of the vain Ishapians?
>

Yes.  But more important in a way at the time I writing because Ishap is 
trying to hold it together while the others are just doing their thing.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.
>
>
>
>
> Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little 
> temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
>   -- Benjamin Franklin
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
>
>



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Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2002 09:15:07 -0700
Subject: Re: talon extract, voyager
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2002 09:15:07 -0700
Subject: Re: talon extract, voyager
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On Thursday, August 1, 2002, at 07:50 AM, Dun Xiahou wrote:

>
> --- Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com> wrote:
> ---snip----
>> I don't find it frightening.  It's not aimed at the
>> casual user who
>> downloads M3's or MEP files they haven't paid for.
>> This is more like
>> seeking authorization for a wire-tap and will be
>> used to go after
>> commercial pirate sites.  Does it have the potential
>> for abuse? Sure, as
>> does wire-tap, but while Martin Luther King was
>> abused by J. Edgar
>> Hoover's boys in that regard, no one I know suffered
>> from an illegal
>> wiretap.
>>
>> I doubt anyone I know will have their system scanned
>> for illegal
>> copyrighted material, either.
>>
>> Best, R.E.F.
>> ----
>>
>> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be
>> explained away by
>> stupidity.
>>
>
> A friend of mine's mother had her phoneline tapped
> during the Nixxon administration after she said she
> didn't agree with "that whole Vietnam thing" during
> her local "Republican Mother's" meeting.
>
> More recently, I in fact had my phoneline tapped
> during the first Clinton election after speaking out
> at a Republican convention.  It was quite a shock to
> find the tap, and I felt rather violated by it.  I
> don't like the idea of someone listening in on my
> phonecalls, especially the ones I made to my
> girlfriend at the time.
>

Well, if your phone was tapped, someone in the law enforcement community 
had to feel he/she had probable cause and convinced a judge to issue the 
warrant for the tap.  If so,they were looking for something specific,and 
under the law had to ignore everything (including other illegal 
activities, if any) except what the warrant told them they could listen 
for.

Did you find out why?  And who?  If it was an illegal tap, you've got a 
healthy cause of action.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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To Donal and the list,
I was not aware that I was posting in it, I have the text editor off,
is there something else I can do.  It comes up fine before I send it
out, and when I get my messages so I don't know what is happening.  Is
it just because I have a Hotmail account, if so I will set up a new
account for the list.  Sorry and I hope it hasn't been too annoying
for people.
                                                                  Thanks
                                                                  Steve Weghorn


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Subject: Re: Languages of Midkemia (pidgin used when Tsurani first met Kingdom men?)
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Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2002 18:33:35 +0200 (CEST)
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*** EOOH ***
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Languages of Midkemia (pidgin used when Tsurani first met Kingdom men?)
Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2002 18:33:35 +0200 (CEST)
From: trym asserson <teeba@start.no>
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Quoting Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>:
> When two or more more languages mesh, you have a pidgin.  There was a 
> Pidgin English used during the Viet Nam war, for example, that let 
> G.I.'s speak to native speakers of Vietnamese, that both sides could 
> understand.

Hi, a little question to that.

When the Tsurani first entered through the rift, spoken communication was a
problem between them and the Midkemians. But later, you see that either part
actually have picked up the other nation's language.

Am I right in assuming that the first Tsurani and Kingdom people who talked
instead of fought did so by way of some pidgin language, or did I miss something
in the books about how they first learnt to understand each other?

It's been a while, but I think I remember Tcharles being one of the first ones
to speak in the Kingdom Tongue (& Pug on Kelewan of course), but how did he
learn it? How is pidgin learnt in the first place? Can a person that doesn't
know a language and what to listen for actually learn it without any
instruction? I've read about pidgin and creols etc before in Steven Pinker's
"Language Instinct" but I never really saw how two such parties could come to a
mutual understanding if no one was there to provide at least some 'bridge'
between their languages?

Maybe I'm missing the picture a bit, but anyway, the main question was how the
Tsurani came to understand the Kingdomers, and vice versa, in the first place? 
The linguistics part can be read about elsewhere to keep the list a bit more
on-topic.

All the best,

Trym

------------------------------------------------------------
Få din egen @start.no-adresse gratis på http://www.start.no/



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From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Who is...
Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2002 13:28:12 -0400
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From: "James Silva" <kiehtan@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Who is...
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Thanks Ray, those answers were a big help in my understanding.

Adieu

Jimmy


>From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: Re: Who is...
>Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2002 09:16:57 -0700
>
>
>On Thursday, August 1, 2002, at 06:49 AM, James Silva wrote:
>
>>
>>>>>Hi Ray, two questions:
>>
>>
>>Possible Spoiler for Serpentwar Saga:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>A name for Ishapians who got involved in a heresy.  They claimed there
>>>>>was only one god, Al-maral and all the other gods, including Ishap, 
>>>>>were
>>>>>but merely faces of that one god.
>>>>>
>>>>>Best, R.E.F.
>>
>>1. So Al-Maral and Ishap are the same god according to everyone but the 
>>Al-Maral faction faction who actually differentate him fomr Ishap?
>
>Yes, but the Al-Maral faction claim he's only a face of the one god.
>
>>
>>
>>>>>----
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>The "Ultimate" is intentionally vague, signifying a concept of something 
>>>out there that is where the buck stops.  If you're a monotheist, it's God 
>>>or the Godhead, or if you're a Hindu, it's Trimurti, etc.    But for the 
>>>Midkemian universe, I've intentionally avoided any ultimate, save the 
>>>Ishapians (in their vanity) call Ishap "the one over all."  Macro is 
>>>talking about something farther up the food chain.
>>>
>>>For something easy, think of it as "The Force."
>>>
>>>Best, R.E.F>
>>
>>2. So in "reality" Ishap is no higher than the other controller gods 
>>(Arch-Indar, Nalar, Ev-Dem, Abram-Sev, Graf, Helbinor) except in the eyes 
>>of the vain Ishapians?
>>
>
>Yes.  But more important in a way at the time I writing because Ishap is 
>trying to hold it together while the others are just doing their thing.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
>stupidity.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary 
>>Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
>>   -- Benjamin Franklin
>>
>>
>>
>>_________________________________________________________________
>>Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
>>
>>




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   -- Benjamin Franklin



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From: "Wouter Durnez" <arutha_of_krondor@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re: James The Flamer
Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2002 17:57:59 +0000
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From: "Wouter Durnez" <arutha_of_krondor@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re: James The Flamer
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And what the bloody hell does 'F3!57 |2(_)13ZZZZZ!!!11' mean?
Pardon me for swearing, but this subject is beginning to irritate me.

Thanks,
Wouter


>From: Dun Xiahou Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu To: 
>FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu Subject: Re: James The Flamer Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2002 
>07:43:30 -0700 (PDT)
>
>
>--- Greg Bulloch wrote: > ok.....this is the second time ive been flamed 
>for > saying some1 and b etc > ------snip---------
>
>All I have to say is, at least you don't speak in "leet"
>
>example:
>
>F3!57 |2(_)13ZZZZZ!!!11
>
>- Xiahou Dun
>
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Oh dear,

It seems most people get a bit touchy when they first encounter criticism 
on the net.  I know I did.  I even called it 'net snobbery' too.

I hope those people who want to leave will not - we are the richer for your 
contributions.

I used to be very protective of the English language until I studied it a 
bit more at college.  I used to think - "What is with these American types 
who think they can spell things the way they want?"

What is English anyway?

I'll tell you - it's a bastard language that has evolved over the centuries 
into what it is today - tomorrow it will be slightly different.  Some 
languages do not evolve - that's why they are dead.  English is alive and 
kicking and all the better for the changes that have been made by people 
and events in history (the Vikings, the French, Germanic Tribes (Angles, 
Saxons and Jutes), and the Internet.  As far as I am aware Old English, 
Anglo-Saxon or Angl-ish (or whatever the experts want to call it this week) 
only survives in modern English in a few words such as "children", "oxen" 
and "brethren".

What I am saying is that language change is fine as long as you don't 
bamboozle people along the way (intentional or not).

I hope those people who want to leave will not - we are the richer for your 
contributions.

Oops!  I've said to much - back to lurking again

Bye list,

Will Menzies



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A response to ANDROMEDA - Internet Goddess.

-Massive snipping here-

>However, this isn't really relevant to the list. This is an English-
>language forum where the 'native' language is English. It's no more
>'bigoted' to expect English to be used here than it is to expect it to
>be used in London. If you expect everyone to accept and learn mystery
>techie languages for use here, then our overseas friends have every
>right to expect you to learn French, German, Swedish, Greek,
>Afrikaans...
I never used the word "bigoted"
However as you rightly say this is an English language forum and as 
this language is being developed all the time calling  the SMS abbreviations
a "techie" language is akin to the snobbery a lot of new net users found
when trying to use chat rooms or forums not so long ago. 

>If I were to virtually visit wherever these mystery 1337 folks (whatever
>they are) hang out, I'd have to learn to understand them and have them
>understand me, which would likely mean English in the first instance
>then increasingly whatever they call this new language of theirs. It
>would be very unfair and rude of me to expect them to converse with me
>in a third language they don't know in their own forum.
I can remember a time when if I didn't understand terms as LOL, IMHO 
etc I was ridiculed and even flamed! I was expected to understand this 
"language" else I wasn't part of the "brave new world" of the net. There was

little tolerance for newbies then, yet if we had all given up just because
of 
this the net couldn't have grown the way it has. However I refused to learn
this net language and continued to use my native language and have
been happily using the Internet in one form or another for 9 years.


>> The previous paragraph could have seemed gibberish
>>to those unfamiliar
>>to the peculiar "language" of "net speak" without the explanations, yet
most
>>people on this list
>>use these and other forms of non-standard communication. A newbie to the
>>Internet can easily be
>>baffled when trying to communicate in a chat forum yet is expected to
learn
>>quickly these abbreviations
>>and symbols of emotions (emoticons).

>Slightly different. TLAs and emoticons are part of the language of the
>internet in general, and are not confined to specific groups or forums.
I disagree. There is no "language of the internet" any more than there is
a language of SMS users - it is a way of communicating that grew from
two different reasons for abbreviating phrases to make typing quicker
and easier. Remember that IMHO means "In My Humble/Honest Opinion"
and this is an English language expression so for a non English speaking net
user
this would have been doubly hard to interpret yet no-one seems upset
by this. Indeed many of my friends whose first language isn't English
understand this "language" far better than I do and my native language
is English. Yet we seem to take exception when someone else takes
to using their own form of abbreviation and, unlike net users, SMS users
developed this "language" to help abbreviate words and phrases because
of the limitations on how many words can be sent via Mobile Text Messaging
and not out of laziness or elitism as in the case of early net users. 
(Although there is a certain pride in being able to use and understand this
form 
of communication with a lot of SMS users)

Also a lot of internet TLAs and emoticons are used in SMS. So if someone
sent an email saying "............LOL m8" would you be ok with the LOL as
it is net speak, but not m8 as this is SMS speak?
>Nevertheless, it's about whether something is appropriate in a given
>environment - while they're okay on the net, I won't be using them in
>the Kennel Gazette and expecting the doggie folks to learn them so they
>can understand me! 

Who ever said they were ok on the net? At first people new to this 
"net language" were baffled and put off by it! Then came acceptance due
in part to wanting to be part of the net. Now it is common enough that
most are comfortable with it (unless you happen to be a newbie - and
there are thousands of them each day) and even embrace. It still doesn't 
mean it is ok any more than SMS chat is ok. Its just a fact of life and, 
increasingly, language. ( just take a look in the latest English
dictionaries
and you will find certain "net" words in them). As I said somewhere <grin>
languages develop and if this is hard for some people to come to terms with
then I am sorry, but there is no such thing as the "Queens English" or
"traditional English" any more than there is such a thing as a net language
or SMS language.

>Even so, I frequently send out a link to an acronym dictionary to
>newbies, as do many others - not because they're necessarily expected to
>use them here (TLA use is fairly limited here), but because they will be
>useful on the net in general.
I have never found these net speak dictionaries useful as in nine years
I have never had to resort to using acronyms or TLAs unless using them
in a 'tongue in cheek' way. However I am starting to use them more
these days as it seems my native language is slowly, but surely, 
embracing them. Who knows? Maybe one day there will be an entry in
the Oxford English Dictionary for M8 (mate) or 143 (I love you - only
found out what that last one meant today :-))

>- ANDREA

Regards
Chris
"I like work; it fascinates me. I can sit and look at it for hours."
Jerome K. Jerome (1859 - 1927)

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-------Original Message-------
>
>From: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Date: 01 August 2002 18:31:28
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: html
>
>To Donal and the list,
>I was not aware that I was posting in it, I have the text editor off, is
>there something else I can do.  It comes up fine before I send it out, and
>when I get my messages so I don't know what is happening.  Is it just
>because I have a Hotmail account, if so I will set up a new account for the
>list.  Sorry and I hope it hasn't been too annoying for people.
>									     
>    Thanks 
>									     
>Steve Weghorn

I hadn't noticed Steve
Regards
Chris
"Technology is dominated by two types of people: those who understand what
they do not manage, and those who manage what they do not understand."
Putt's Law

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Date: 01 August 2002 19:35:09  From Will Menzies


Oh dear,

It seems most people get a bit touchy when they first encounter criticism 
on the net. I know I did. I even called it 'net snobbery' too.

I hope those people who want to leave will not - we are the richer for your 
contributions.

I used to be very protective of the English language until I studied it a 
bit more at college. I used to think - "What is with these American types 
who think they can spell things the way they want?"

What is English anyway?

I'll tell you - it's a bastard language that has evolved over the centuries 
into what it is today - tomorrow it will be slightly different. Some 
languages do not evolve - that's why they are dead. English is alive and 
kicking and all the better for the changes that have been made by people 
and events in history (the Vikings, the French, Germanic Tribes (Angles, 
Saxons and Jutes), and the Internet. As far as I am aware Old English, 
Anglo-Saxon or Angl-ish (or whatever the experts want to call it this week) 
only survives in modern English in a few words such as "children", "oxen" 
and "brethren".

What I am saying is that language change is fine as long as you don't 
bamboozle people along the way (intentional or not).

-Unfortunately Will language whether old or new will always confuse someone
-somewhere. I use the word confuse because according to 
-http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary  to bamboozle means to deceive
-by underhand methods and this cannot be done unintentionally.
 bam·boo·zle 
Pronunciation: bam-'bü-z&l
Function: transitive verb
Inflected Form(s): -boo·zled; bam·boo·zling  /-'büz-li[ng], -'bü-z&-/
Etymology: origin unknown
Date: 1703
: to deceive by underhanded methods : DUPE, HOODWINK
- bam·boo·zle·ment  /-'bü-z&l-m&nt/ noun 

-Also I am sure you didn't mean to confuse anyone though <Grin>

I hope those people who want to leave will not - we are the richer for your 
contributions.

Oops! I've said to much - back to lurking again

Bye list,

Will Menzies
Regards
Chris
"When ideas fail, words come in very handy." 
Johann Wolfgang von Goethe (1749 - 1832)

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Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2002 17:30:43 -0400
From: Jud Partin <jpartin@vorlon.eas.gatech.edu>
Organization: Georgia Tech
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Raymond Feist wrote:

>
> For something easy, think of it as "The Force."
>
> Best, R.E.F>
> ----
>
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
> stupidity.

Hmmmm. Or "Stuff" maybe... Now I see a little better where you are going.
This is akin to Enlightenment in Buddism where you see things for what they
really are.

By the way, I am kinda new to the list. Thanks for taking the time and
patience to answer a bunch of questions from a stupid reader. I'm your number
one fan! ...Just Kidding- a litte Stephen King humor for you. (chuckle,
chuckle)

To have the ability to correspond directly with a best-selling author is
pretty sweet.

And thanks to everyone else who chime in with answers as well.

Best Regards and Take Care,
Jud



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Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2002 14:57:15 -0700
Subject: Re: Languages of Midkemia (pidgin used when Tsurani first met Kingdom men?)
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Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2002 14:57:15 -0700
Subject: Re: Languages of Midkemia (pidgin used when Tsurani first met Kingdom men?)
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Thursday, August 1, 2002, at 09:33 AM, trym asserson wrote:

> Quoting Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>:
>> When two or more more languages mesh, you have a pidgin.  There was a
>> Pidgin English used during the Viet Nam war, for example, that let
>> G.I.'s speak to native speakers of Vietnamese, that both sides could
>> understand.
>
> Hi, a little question to that.
>
> When the Tsurani first entered through the rift, spoken communication 
> was a
> problem between them and the Midkemians. But later, you see that either 
> part
> actually have picked up the other nation's language.
>
> Am I right in assuming that the first Tsurani and Kingdom people who 
> talked
> instead of fought did so by way of some pidgin language, or did I miss 
> something
> in the books about how they first learnt to understand each other?

Yes, you missed something: magic.  With magic, language acquisition 
proceeds quite rapidly.

>
> It's been a while, but I think I remember Tcharles being one of the 
> first ones
> to speak in the Kingdom Tongue (& Pug on Kelewan of course), but how 
> did he
> learn it? How is pidgin learnt in the first place? Can a person that 
> doesn't
> know a language and what to listen for actually learn it without any
> instruction? I've read about pidgin and creols etc before in Steven 
> Pinker's
> "Language Instinct" but I never really saw how two such parties could 
> come to a
> mutual understanding if no one was there to provide at least some 
> 'bridge'
> between their languages?

Tcharles learned it by just applying his intellect and being taught by 
others around him.

A lot of pidgins start with two people sitting down and pointing to 
things and learning names.  Then transaction words, i.e. transitive 
verbs start and simple adjectives, i.e. "small," "large," "fast," slow," 
etc.
>
> Maybe I'm missing the picture a bit, but anyway, the main question was 
> how the
> Tsurani came to understand the Kingdomers, and vice versa, in the first 
> place?
> The linguistics part can be read about elsewhere to keep the list a bit 
> more
> on-topic.
>

As described above.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2002 23:11:40 +0100
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Oooh - do you know! - bloody snobs!



Will



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From: "Cameron Duncan" <cduncan@atinera.com.au>
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Subject: Magician 20th Anniversary Ed
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002 08:24:25 +1000
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From: "Cameron Duncan" <cduncan@atinera.com.au>
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Subject: Magician 20th Anniversary Ed
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002 08:24:25 +1000
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For those interested, found the following on the 20th Anniversary edition -

http://www.fireandwater.com/promotions/magician_preorder.asp



Cameron



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References: <A4425D34-A599-11D6-8B57-003065A8A644@bittersea.com>
Subject: Re: Languages of Midkemia (pidgin used when Tsurani first met Kingdom men?)
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From: "Andrew" <arooke@bigpond.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Languages of Midkemia (pidgin used when Tsurani first met Kingdom men?)
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002 10:06:44 +1000
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All,
    A great example of this occured in the movie 13th Warrior.

Just for your info.

Andrew


----- Original Message -----
From: "Raymond Feist" <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Friday, August 02, 2002 7:57 AM
Subject: Re: Languages of Midkemia (pidgin used when Tsurani first met
Kingdom men?)


>
> On Thursday, August 1, 2002, at 09:33 AM, trym asserson wrote:
>
> > Quoting Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>:
> >> When two or more more languages mesh, you have a pidgin.  There was a
> >> Pidgin English used during the Viet Nam war, for example, that let
> >> G.I.'s speak to native speakers of Vietnamese, that both sides could
> >> understand.
> >
> > Hi, a little question to that.
> >
> > When the Tsurani first entered through the rift, spoken communication
> > was a
> > problem between them and the Midkemians. But later, you see that either
> > part
> > actually have picked up the other nation's language.
> >
> > Am I right in assuming that the first Tsurani and Kingdom people who
> > talked
> > instead of fought did so by way of some pidgin language, or did I miss
> > something
> > in the books about how they first learnt to understand each other?
>
> Yes, you missed something: magic.  With magic, language acquisition
> proceeds quite rapidly.
>
> >
> > It's been a while, but I think I remember Tcharles being one of the
> > first ones
> > to speak in the Kingdom Tongue (& Pug on Kelewan of course), but how
> > did he
> > learn it? How is pidgin learnt in the first place? Can a person that
> > doesn't
> > know a language and what to listen for actually learn it without any
> > instruction? I've read about pidgin and creols etc before in Steven
> > Pinker's
> > "Language Instinct" but I never really saw how two such parties could
> > come to a
> > mutual understanding if no one was there to provide at least some
> > 'bridge'
> > between their languages?
>
> Tcharles learned it by just applying his intellect and being taught by
> others around him.
>
> A lot of pidgins start with two people sitting down and pointing to
> things and learning names.  Then transaction words, i.e. transitive
> verbs start and simple adjectives, i.e. "small," "large," "fast," slow,"
> etc.
> >
> > Maybe I'm missing the picture a bit, but anyway, the main question was
> > how the
> > Tsurani came to understand the Kingdomers, and vice versa, in the first
> > place?
> > The linguistics part can be read about elsewhere to keep the list a bit
> > more
> > on-topic.
> >
>
> As described above.
>
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
>
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
> stupidity.
>



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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu



-Dennis H. Groome V
ICQ: 11430261 AIM/Yahoo: AmoNympham
Microsoft Messenger: marcus_giovani@hotmail.com


----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Williamson" <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2002 3:56 AM
Subject: RE: Couple of pointers (Was Re: New to this list)


> At 00:20 01/08/2002, A Irving spake thusly:
> >I know a little l337 but I am [not] 'flu3n7'. It annoys me aswell.
>
> Um.  Can anyone give me an etymology of 'l337' ?
>
> And for Trym, I /think/ "hax0r" is supposed to be pronounced
> 'hacker'.


once upon a time real hackers would refer to themselves as being "elite."
over time and the introduction of ASCII characters into online
communication, "e" became 3, "l" became 1 and "t" became 7.  "Elite"
shortened and mutated it's spelling into "leet," hence 1337.



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Subject: Re: James The Flamer
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Dennis Groome" <nallix@cox.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: James The Flamer
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2002 20:25:08 -0500
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-Dennis H. Groome V
ICQ: 11430261 AIM/Yahoo: AmoNympham
Microsoft Messenger: marcus_giovani@hotmail.com


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Wouter Durnez" <arutha_of_krondor@hotmail.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2002 12:57 PM
Subject: Re: James The Flamer


> And what the bloody hell does 'F3!57 |2(_)13ZZZZZ!!!11' mean?
> Pardon me for swearing, but this subject is beginning to irritate me.
> 

Feist Rules.  if you want a complete break down, e-mail me off list.



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From: "Julie Wootten" <wootten@xtra.co.nz>
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References: <F33FkTfF3oAd2R6PuZT00022a8c@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: James The Flamer
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Julie Wootten" <wootten@xtra.co.nz>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: James The Flamer
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002 13:29:58 +1200
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I looked up l337 on Google last night, looking to see what the buzz
was supposed to be about.  I assume that the translation is "Feist
rules!".  I imagine though, that it shouldn't be "rules" but "roolz"
(or R00lZ!!!11).  Anyway, enough of this.

Thanks to the person on this list that pointed me to Google a year
or so ago.  It's been wonderfully helpful - with academic work,
personal interest, and winning stuff on the radio.  That is, until they
banned me for winning too often.

Julie.

> And what the bloody hell does 'F3!57 |2(_)13ZZZZZ!!!11' mean?
> Pardon me for swearing, but this subject is beginning to irritate me.
> 
> Thanks,
> Wouter




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From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
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Subject: Re: Who is...
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002 11:59:44 +1000 (GMT+1000)
From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Who is...
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> > Possible Spoiler for Serpentwar Saga:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>> A name for Ishapians who got involved in a heresy.  They claimed
> >>>> there
> >>>> was only one god, Al-maral and all the other gods, including Ishap,
> >>>> were
> >>>> but merely faces of that one god.
> >>>>
> >>>> Best, R.E.F.
> >
> > 1. So Al-Maral and Ishap are the same god according to everyone but the
> > Al-Maral faction faction who actually differentate him fomr Ishap?
>
> Yes, but the Al-Maral faction claim he's only a face of the one god.
> Yes.  But more important in a way at the time I writing because Ishap is
> trying to hold it together while the others are just doing their thing.
> Best, R.E.F.

So Ray, who is right *g* the normal Ishapians or the followers of the
Heresy:)

Thanks
Darragh
================================================
msn: iamtheporkfireman@hotmail.com

"Believe or die - thank you O lord for all those
 options" - Bill Hicks.
================================================



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From: "Jason Martin" <res0b95g@verizon.net>
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References: <002001c239aa$310f1210$570199a8@atinera.com.au>
Subject: Re: Magician 20th Anniversary Ed
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Jason Martin" <res0b95g@verizon.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Magician 20th Anniversary Ed
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2002 20:20:32 -0700
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Ok, that sounds great, but a few problems for me:
1)  How much is this suppose to be?
2)  It's only available for people in Europe from what i have read on the
link.?
3)  If that is the case what are my chances if I send someone some Money to
get it for me
     and have he or she ship it over?
4)  Will there be a US 20th Anniversary Ed?  ( I should know that, but I
don't)

Thanks,

Jason

----- Original Message -----
From: "Cameron Duncan" <cduncan@atinera.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2002 3:24 PM
Subject: Magician 20th Anniversary Ed


> For those interested, found the following on the 20th Anniversary edition -
>
> http://www.fireandwater.com/promotions/magician_preorder.asp
>
>
>
> Cameron
>



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Subject: RE: Magician 20th Anniversary Ed
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Jeff Weidemann" <jeff@pronto.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Magician 20th Anniversary Ed
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002 13:46:40 +1000
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Does Ray or any list member know whether the Australian edition will be
the same (physically - leather bound etc), as the Harper Collins UK
edition below.   IIRC, somebody, maybe Ray, mentioned the Australian
edition is the same/similar to the UK edition.

-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Cameron Duncan
>Sent: Friday, 2 August 2002 8:24 AM
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: Magician 20th Anniversary Ed
>
>
>For those interested, found the following on the 20th Anniversary
>edition -
>
>http://www.fireandwater.com/promotions/magician_preorder.asp
>
>
>
>Cameron
>


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From: "Cameron Duncan" <cduncan@atinera.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Magician 20th Anniversary Ed
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002 14:01:20 +1000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Cameron Duncan" <cduncan@atinera.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Magician 20th Anniversary Ed
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002 14:01:20 +1000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

The Australian edition will be imported from the UK.
So, we should have the exact same version.
(Normally Ray's books are printed here for the Australian market)

Cameron
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Jeff Weidemann
> Sent: Friday, August 02, 2002 1:47 PM
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Subject: RE: Magician 20th Anniversary Ed
> 
> 
> Does Ray or any list member know whether the Australian edition will be
> the same (physically - leather bound etc), as the Harper Collins UK
> edition below.   IIRC, somebody, maybe Ray, mentioned the Australian
> edition is the same/similar to the UK edition.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Cameron Duncan
> Sent: Friday, 2 August 2002 8:24 AM
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Subject: Magician 20th Anniversary Ed
> 
> 
> For those interested, found the following on the 20th Anniversary
> edition -
> 
> http://www.fireandwater.com/promotions/magician_preorder.asp
> 
> 
> 
> Cameron
> 
> 



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From: "Cameron Duncan" <cduncan@atinera.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Magician 20th Anniversary Ed
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002 14:08:38 +1000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Cameron Duncan" <cduncan@atinera.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Magician 20th Anniversary Ed
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002 14:08:38 +1000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

It is listed as 14 pounds UK (sorry no pound symbol on my pc) at
amazon.co.uk.  It also sells for $65.00 Australian here in Aust.

I think Ray posted a while back saying that it is only being 
released in the UK and the associated UK export markets.  
So no US version (which means I don't have to buy 2 different copies :)  )

The offer to get a signed edition via the link I sent earlier is only
available to UK residents.  The book should be available to anyone who
wants to buy it. :)

Cameron

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Jason Martin
> Sent: Friday, August 02, 2002 1:21 PM
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Subject: Re: Magician 20th Anniversary Ed
> 
> 
> Ok, that sounds great, but a few problems for me:
> 1)  How much is this suppose to be?
> 2)  It's only available for people in Europe from what i have read on the
> link.?
> 3)  If that is the case what are my chances if I send someone 
> some Money to
> get it for me
>      and have he or she ship it over?
> 4)  Will there be a US 20th Anniversary Ed?  ( I should know that, but I
> don't)
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Jason
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Cameron Duncan" <cduncan@atinera.com.au>
> To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2002 3:24 PM
> Subject: Magician 20th Anniversary Ed
> 
> 
> > For those interested, found the following on the 20th Anniversary
> edition -
> >
> > http://www.fireandwater.com/promotions/magician_preorder.asp
> >
> >
> >
> > Cameron
> >
> 
> 



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Subject: RE: Magician 20th Anniversary Ed
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002 14:31:17 +1000
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Subject: RE: Magician 20th Anniversary Ed
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002 14:31:17 +1000
Thread-Topic: Magician 20th Anniversary Ed
Thread-Index: AcI53QQdUzwRJcUmQdKydgvnVQcpbwAAAXtQ
From: "Green, Brendan" <Brendan.Green@baycorpadvantage.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I found these 2 links

http://www.dymocks.com.au/asp/full_details.asp?isbn=0007134118
and this one from A&R but the search done on this site using 
the England Database, although it is still in AU$
http://www.angusrobertson.com.au/featuredbook1.asp?StoreUrl=angusrobertson&bookid=0007134118&db=uk

-----Original Message-----
>From: Cameron Duncan [mailto:cduncan@atinera.com.au]
>Sent: Friday, 2 August 2002 14:01
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: RE: Magician 20th Anniversary Ed
>
>
>The Australian edition will be imported from the UK.
>So, we should have the exact same version.
>(Normally Ray's books are printed here for the Australian market)
>
>Cameron
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Jeff Weidemann
>> Sent: Friday, August 02, 2002 1:47 PM
>> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>> Subject: RE: Magician 20th Anniversary Ed
>> 
>> 
>> Does Ray or any list member know whether the Australian edition will be
>> the same (physically - leather bound etc), as the Harper Collins UK
>> edition below.   IIRC, somebody, maybe Ray, mentioned the Australian
>> edition is the same/similar to the UK edition.
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Cameron Duncan
>> Sent: Friday, 2 August 2002 8:24 AM
>> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>> Subject: Magician 20th Anniversary Ed
>> 
>> 
>> For those interested, found the following on the 20th Anniversary
>> edition -
>> 
>> http://www.fireandwater.com/promotions/magician_preorder.asp
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Cameron
>> 
>> 

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From: "Michael Connolly" <data3@dodo.com.au>
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References: <002001c239aa$310f1210$570199a8@atinera.com.au> <001001c239d3$90162bd0$3cf64004@krondor>
Subject: Re: Magician 20th Anniversary Ed
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002 16:30:53 +1000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Michael Connolly" <data3@dodo.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Magician 20th Anniversary Ed
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002 16:30:53 +1000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Here is the Harper Collins Australia page for the deluxe edition:

http://www.harpercollins.com.au/title.cfm?ISBN=0007134118&Author=FEIST__RAYM
OND_E_&txtSearch=magician&SearchBy=Title

Major points of interest:

Price (Aust RRP): $65.00
Publication Date: 21 August 2002
No. of Pages: 704 pages

This looks to be the edition to have :)

Michael

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jason Martin" <res0b95g@verizon.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Friday, August 02, 2002 1:20 PM
Subject: Re: Magician 20th Anniversary Ed


> Ok, that sounds great, but a few problems for me:
> 1)  How much is this suppose to be?
> 2)  It's only available for people in Europe from what i have read on the
> link.?
> 3)  If that is the case what are my chances if I send someone some Money to
> get it for me
>      and have he or she ship it over?
> 4)  Will there be a US 20th Anniversary Ed?  ( I should know that, but I
> don't)
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jason
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Cameron Duncan" <cduncan@atinera.com.au>
> To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2002 3:24 PM
> Subject: Magician 20th Anniversary Ed
>
>
> > For those interested, found the following on the 20th Anniversary
> edition -
> >
> > http://www.fireandwater.com/promotions/magician_preorder.asp
> >
> >
> >
> > Cameron
> >
>
>



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Subject: Extra signing info for Australia
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002 16:34:17 +1000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Michael Connolly" <data3@dodo.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Extra signing info for Australia
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002 16:34:17 +1000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Just noticed this,

Angus & Robertson have added another place that Ray will be doing signings:

Brisbane Post Office Square, on Wednesday 25th September at 11.00am.
Enquiries (07) 3229 0717.

I'm sure that more will continue to appear as the time gets closer :)

Michael

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From: "Jason Martin" <res0b95g@verizon.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
References: <006c01c239da$47a89700$570199a8@atinera.com.au>
Subject: Re: Magician 20th Anniversary Ed
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2002 23:48:33 -0700
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Jason Martin" <res0b95g@verizon.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Magician 20th Anniversary Ed
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2002 23:48:33 -0700
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Well that is great news indeed.  Bummer part is I spent my fun money for
September already(I took an advance), but I may beable to get my wife to get
it for me for my Birthday in October...  14 pounds seems pretty cheap to me,
I was figuring this edition would go for around $65 american.  If I do end
up ordering I hope it doesn't come damaged like my Honoured Enemy did.
Though Amazon replaced it with a new copy the next week, but I would be
bummed if it happend twice in a row..

Jason


----- Original Message -----
From: "Cameron Duncan" <cduncan@atinera.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2002 9:08 PM
Subject: RE: Magician 20th Anniversary Ed


> It is listed as 14 pounds UK (sorry no pound symbol on my pc) at
> amazon.co.uk.  It also sells for $65.00 Australian here in Aust.
>
> I think Ray posted a while back saying that it is only being
> released in the UK and the associated UK export markets.
> So no US version (which means I don't have to buy 2 different copies :)  )
>
> The offer to get a signed edition via the link I sent earlier is only
> available to UK residents.  The book should be available to anyone who
> wants to buy it. :)
>
> Cameron
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Jason Martin
> > Sent: Friday, August 02, 2002 1:21 PM
> > To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > Subject: Re: Magician 20th Anniversary Ed
> >
> >
> > Ok, that sounds great, but a few problems for me:
> > 1)  How much is this suppose to be?
> > 2)  It's only available for people in Europe from what i have read on the
> > link.?
> > 3)  If that is the case what are my chances if I send someone
> > some Money to
> > get it for me
> >      and have he or she ship it over?
> > 4)  Will there be a US 20th Anniversary Ed?  ( I should know that, but I
> > don't)
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Jason
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Cameron Duncan" <cduncan@atinera.com.au>
> > To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> > Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2002 3:24 PM
> > Subject: Magician 20th Anniversary Ed
> >
> >
> > > For those interested, found the following on the 20th Anniversary
> > edition -
> > >
> > > http://www.fireandwater.com/promotions/magician_preorder.asp
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Cameron
> > >
> >
> >
>
>



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From: "Cameron Duncan" <cduncan@atinera.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Extra signing info for Australia
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002 16:50:44 +1000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Cameron Duncan" <cduncan@atinera.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Extra signing info for Australia
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002 16:50:44 +1000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Now that is good news.  I have that day off, and am hoping to get the
Thursday off as well :)
I can even park at work and walk over.
Maybe if I'm lucky, I'll get a few books signed this time too.

Cameron
>  -----Original Message-----
>  From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Michael Connolly
>  Sent: Friday, August 02, 2002 4:34 PM
>  To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>  Subject: Extra signing info for Australia
>
>
>  Just noticed this,
>
>  Angus & Robertson have added another place that Ray will be doing
>signings:
>
>  Brisbane Post Office Square, on Wednesday 25th September at 11.00am.
>Enquiries (07) 3229 0717.
>
>  I'm sure that more will continue to appear as the time gets closer :)
>
>  Michael

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From: "Cameron Duncan" <cduncan@atinera.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Magician 20th Anniversary Ed
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002 16:55:54 +1000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Cameron Duncan" <cduncan@atinera.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Magician 20th Anniversary Ed
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002 16:55:54 +1000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I've ordered from Amazon a few time over the last 2 or 3 years, and except
for one shipment of Terry Brooks books (admittedly, it was the larger
World of Shannara book), they have always turned in excellent condition.
But in that one case, the box looked like a truck ran over it!

Cameron

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Jason Martin
> Sent: Friday, August 02, 2002 4:49 PM
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Subject: Re: Magician 20th Anniversary Ed
>
>
> Well that is great news indeed.  Bummer part is I spent my fun money for
> September already(I took an advance), but I may beable to get my
> wife to get
> it for me for my Birthday in October...  14 pounds seems pretty
> cheap to me,
> I was figuring this edition would go for around $65 american.  If I do end
> up ordering I hope it doesn't come damaged like my Honoured Enemy did.
> Though Amazon replaced it with a new copy the next week, but I would be
> bummed if it happend twice in a row..
>
> Jason
>
<snip>



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From: "Michael Connolly" <data3@dodo.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Something Unusual (20th Anniversary Edition)
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002 17:07:03 +1000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Michael Connolly" <data3@dodo.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Something Unusual (20th Anniversary Edition)
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002 17:07:03 +1000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Noticed this at www.voyageronline.com.au:

Title: Magician Deluxe Edition
Author: Raymond E Feist 
ISBN: 0007134118
Format: Hardback
Price: $55.00
Published: September 2002

$55?? Everywhere else is quoting $65... typo perhaps? And you can't
order off of them, so it does not appear to be their special
price... a mystery indeed. :)

Michael

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From: "Wouter Durnez" <arutha_of_krondor@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: James The Flamer
Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2002 07:57:30 +0000
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Well thank you :)

Wouter


>From: "Julie Wootten" <wootten@xtra.co.nz>
>Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
>Subject: Re: James The Flamer
>Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002 13:29:58 +1200
>
>I looked up l337 on Google last night, looking to see what the buzz
>was supposed to be about.  I assume that the translation is "Feist
>rules!".  I imagine though, that it shouldn't be "rules" but "roolz"
>(or R00lZ!!!11).  Anyway, enough of this.
>
>Thanks to the person on this list that pointed me to Google a year
>or so ago.  It's been wonderfully helpful - with academic work,
>personal interest, and winning stuff on the radio.  That is, until they
>banned me for winning too often.
>
>Julie.
>
> > And what the bloody hell does 'F3!57 |2(_)13ZZZZZ!!!11' mean?
> > Pardon me for swearing, but this subject is beginning to irritate me.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Wouter
>
>




_________________________________________________________________
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2002 09:17:30 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: Magician 20th Anniversary Ed  Norte Americanos
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At 04:20 02/08/2002, Jason Martin spake thusly:
>3)  If that is the case what are my chances if I send someone some Money to
>get it for me
>     and have he or she ship it over?

Um.  Where do you live?  I'm already getting ready to import
a suitcase load the week after Ray is here (for the signing)
as I'll be traveling to the US for my parents' 60th birthdays.

Are you US based?

rip



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2002 09:34:34 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: James The Flamer
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At 02:29 02/08/2002, Julie Wootten spake thusly:

>Thanks to the person on this list that pointed me to Google a year
>or so ago.  It's been wonderfully helpful - with academic work,
>personal interest, and winning stuff on the radio.  That is, until they
>banned me for winning too often.

On the subject of search engines...

Tony Joyce and Rick Fry.

*grin*

rip



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Subject: Re: Languages of Midkemia (pidgin used when Tsurani first met Kingdom men?)
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Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2002 10:49:58 +0200 (CEST)
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*** EOOH ***
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Languages of Midkemia (pidgin used when Tsurani first met Kingdom men?)
Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2002 10:49:58 +0200 (CEST)
From: trym asserson <teeba@start.no>
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Quoting Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>:
> > When the Tsurani first entered through the rift, spoken communication
> > was a
> > problem between them and the Midkemians. But later, you see that
> either 
> > part
> > actually have picked up the other nation's language.
> >
> > Am I right in assuming that the first Tsurani and Kingdom people who
> > talked
> > instead of fought did so by way of some pidgin language, or did I miss
> > something
> > in the books about how they first learnt to understand each other?
> 
> Yes, you missed something: magic.  With magic, language acquisition 
> proceeds quite rapidly.

Ahh, that's an elusive yet acceptable explanation. :) I can accept that for Pug
& magic users, and your answer below covers the other case nicely.

> > It's been a while, but I think I remember Tcharles being one of the 
> > first ones
> > to speak in the Kingdom Tongue (& Pug on Kelewan of course), but how
> > did he
> > learn it? How is pidgin learnt in the first place? Can a person that
> > doesn't
> > know a language and what to listen for actually learn it without any
> > instruction? I've read about pidgin and creols etc before in Steven 
> > Pinker's
> > "Language Instinct" but I never really saw how two such parties could
> > come to a
> > mutual understanding if no one was there to provide at least some 
> > 'bridge'
> > between their languages?
> 
> Tcharles learned it by just applying his intellect and being taught by
> others around him.
> 
> A lot of pidgins start with two people sitting down and pointing to 
> things and learning names.  Then transaction words, i.e. transitive 
> verbs start and simple adjectives, i.e. "small," "large," "fast," slow,"
> etc.

OK, and a common understanding too then that they start with nouns for things
first then, I suppose, such that a Tsurani doesn't point at a horse and say the
word 'bad creature' or just 'bad', rather than 'horse' and the Midkemian
attributes the meanings of Tsurani words wrongly and continually refers to
horses as 'bad' in Tsurani. He'd be understood, but not get across his intended
meaning.

Thanks for the clarification, Ray!


All the best,

Trym :)

------------------------------------------------------------
Få din egen @start.no-adresse gratis på http://www.start.no/



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From: Paul Atkinson <paul.atkinson@isntv.co.uk>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: James The Flamer
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*** EOOH ***
From: Paul Atkinson <paul.atkinson@isntv.co.uk>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: James The Flamer
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002 10:22:24 +0100 
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Missing something here........
Please explain Thanks

*Goes back to lurking*

-----Original Message-----
>From: Richard Williamson [mailto:richard.williamson@windriver.com]
>Sent: Friday, August 02, 2002 9:35 AM
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: Re: James The Flamer
>
>
>At 02:29 02/08/2002, Julie Wootten spake thusly:
>
>>Thanks to the person on this list that pointed me to Google a year
>>or so ago.  It's been wonderfully helpful - with academic work,
>>personal interest, and winning stuff on the radio.  That is, until they
>>banned me for winning too often.
>
>On the subject of search engines...
>
>Tony Joyce and Rick Fry.
>
>*grin*
>
>rip
>

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From: Paul Atkinson <paul.atkinson@isntv.co.uk>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Change E-mail address
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002 10:24:51 +0100 
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*** EOOH ***
From: Paul Atkinson <paul.atkinson@isntv.co.uk>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Change E-mail address
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002 10:24:51 +0100 
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Hi

Is it possible to change the e-mail address to which these come?

Thanks

Paul


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Subject: Re: Change E-mail address
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2002 11:09:12 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: Change E-mail address
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Easiest way is to unsubscribe from the first, then resubscribe
from the second.  If you can't do that (because you no longer
have access to the first, for example) then you need to send
an email to the list admin dude (Dan Lorey, dl24@cornell.edu)
supplying the old and new addresses and requesting politely 
that he do the change manually.

Regards,
Richard

At 10:24 02/08/2002, Paul Atkinson spake thusly:
>Hi
>
>Is it possible to change the e-mail address to which these come?
>
>Thanks
>
>Paul
>
>
>**********************************************************************
>
>This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the addressee.   If you have received this email in error you may not disclose, copy, distribute or act upon its contents without the author's prior written consent.   Please can you notify the system manager postmaster@lnn-tv.co.uk immediately and delete this email.
>
>Any views or opinions expressed are those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of London News Network Ltd.
>
>This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for the presence of computer viruses.   No responsibility can be accepted in the event that a virus is contained within it or any attachments.
>
>London News Network Ltd (Registered no 2631359)
>Registered office:  The London Television Centre, London SE1 9LT



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2002 11:13:32 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Sorry, guess I was too cryptic.

"Thanks to the person on this list" (name not remembered) "that
pointed me to Google" (a search engine)...

I just used a different search engine to scan the archives, and
found the posts that Julie is referring to, and thus the people
she is thanking.  Julie asked for some information, Andromeda 
replied with the postal mail address of the group in question, 
and Tony and Rick pointed her at Google.

rip

At 10:22 02/08/2002, Paul Atkinson spake thusly:
>Missing something here........
>Please explain Thanks
>
>From: Richard Williamson [mailto:richard.williamson@windriver.com]
>At 02:29 02/08/2002, Julie Wootten spake thusly:
>
>>Thanks to the person on this list that pointed me to Google a year
>>or so ago.  It's been wonderfully helpful - with academic work,
>>personal interest, and winning stuff on the radio.  That is, until they
>>banned me for winning too often.
>
>On the subject of search engines...
>
>Tony Joyce and Rick Fry.
>
>*grin*
>
>rip



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2002 11:27:33 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: Al Burrell <al.burl@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Change E-mail address
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At 10:24 02/08/2002 +0100, Paul Atkinson wrote:
>Hi
>
>Is it possible to change the e-mail address to which these come?
>
>Thanks
>
>Paul

Yes. Use this e-mail address to unsubscribe. Send a mail to
listproc@cornell.edu with the mail content being Unsubscribe FEISTFANS-L  .

Then use the address that you wish the new mail to come to, to send a mail to
listproc@cornell.edu with the mail content being Subscribe FEISTFANS-L .

Al



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*** EOOH ***
From: "Iain." <iainp@btinternet.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: I'm one of the 10!!
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002 13:18:34 +0100
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I got an email this morning from Fireandwater.com to remind me that I
could pre order the special addition of Magician from them.  I already
ordered it yesterday so replied back saying as much and asked if I was
one of the 1st 10, not really expecting to get an answer.

They replied back a minute later to say that it looked like I was!!
This is the first time i've one something like this and the fact it's
a signed copy of the limited edition Magician makes it even better.
I'm going to have this huge grin on my face for the rest of the day
now and probably most of tomorrow.

Yay me!!


Iain.

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From: Dun Xiahou <xiahoudun13@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: talon extract, voyager
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002 06:13:33 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dun Xiahou <xiahoudun13@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: talon extract, voyager
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Actually, I have no idea WHO tapped it.  The
Republican convention thing is the only reason I can
think of for anyone with the means to tap my phone.  I
had voiced my displeasure over Bush's foreign policy
when dealing with China.  It was a simple opinion I
voiced, and I made no threats and didn't even do any
namecalling.  I'm a Chinese American and I spoke out
on an issue regarding China that went against what
Bush was doing, so I just figured it was paranoia
combined with usual bigotry that goes with it.  Truth
is I could be wrong; it might have been for something
else entirely.  I know there was a van down the block
for about a week.  I never found out who tapped my
phone, and eventually they just up and left, taking
the wiretap with them.  The fact is I'll never truly
know why I was tapped.  Actually I wouldn't have known
I was tapped if it hadn't been for the cable guy who
told me.

As for my friend's mother, she DID try to prosecute
for unlawful wiretap because they didn't have a
warrant of any kind.  She lost though because of some
kind of paperwork technicality.

- Xiahou Dun


--- Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com> wrote:
> 
> On Thursday, August 1, 2002, at 07:50 AM, Dun Xiahou
> wrote:
> 
> >
> > --- Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com> wrote:
> > ---snip----
> >> I don't find it frightening.  It's not aimed at
> the
> >> casual user who
> >> downloads M3's or MEP files they haven't paid
> for.
> >> This is more like
> >> seeking authorization for a wire-tap and will be
> >> used to go after
> >> commercial pirate sites.  Does it have the
> potential
> >> for abuse? Sure, as
> >> does wire-tap, but while Martin Luther King was
> >> abused by J. Edgar
> >> Hoover's boys in that regard, no one I know
> suffered
> >> from an illegal
> >> wiretap.
> >>
> >> I doubt anyone I know will have their system
> scanned
> >> for illegal
> >> copyrighted material, either.
> >>
> >> Best, R.E.F.
> >> ----
> >>
> >> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily
> be
> >> explained away by
> >> stupidity.
> >>
> >
> > A friend of mine's mother had her phoneline tapped
> > during the Nixxon administration after she said
> she
> > didn't agree with "that whole Vietnam thing"
> during
> > her local "Republican Mother's" meeting.
> >
> > More recently, I in fact had my phoneline tapped
> > during the first Clinton election after speaking
> out
> > at a Republican convention.  It was quite a shock
> to
> > find the tap, and I felt rather violated by it.  I
> > don't like the idea of someone listening in on my
> > phonecalls, especially the ones I made to my
> > girlfriend at the time.
> >
> 
> Well, if your phone was tapped, someone in the law
> enforcement community 
> had to feel he/she had probable cause and convinced
> a judge to issue the 
> warrant for the tap.  If so,they were looking for
> something specific,and 
> under the law had to ignore everything (including
> other illegal 
> activities, if any) except what the warrant told
> them they could listen 
> for.
> 
> Did you find out why?  And who?  If it was an
> illegal tap, you've got a 
> healthy cause of action.
> 
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
> 
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be
> explained away by 
> stupidity.
> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better
http://health.yahoo.com



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*** EOOH ***
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Quoting "Iain." <iainp@btinternet.com>:
> I got an email this morning from Fireandwater.com to remind me that I
> could pre order the special addition of Magician from them.  I already
> ordered it yesterday so replied back saying as much and asked if I was
> one of the 1st 10, not really expecting to get an answer.
> 
> They replied back a minute later to say that it looked like I was!! 
> This is the first time i've one something like this and the fact it's a
> signed copy of the limited edition Magician makes it even better.  I'm
> going to have this huge grin on my face for the rest of the day now and
> probably most of tomorrow.
> 
> Yay me!!
> 
> Iain.
> 

Congrats, that sounds really good! This book looks like it'll be the first ever
duplicate in my book shelf. So far I've never had a mind to buy various editions
of any book, no matter how good, but I'll make an exception with this 20th
Anniversary ed.

Those drawings sound interesting, it's always nice to see if someone else have
visualised the story & characters like you yourself have... Like the characters
of the Betrayal At Krondor game.. those were wonderful and spot on with many of
my own visualisations.


Trym

------------------------------------------------------------
Få din egen @start.no-adresse gratis på http://www.start.no/



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From: Paul Atkinson <paul.atkinson@isntv.co.uk>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: I'm one of the 10!!
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002 15:18:49 +0100 
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*** EOOH ***
From: Paul Atkinson <paul.atkinson@isntv.co.uk>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: I'm one of the 10!!
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002 15:18:49 +0100 
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

A testament to Rays ability to set the scene and describe characters without
lengthy descriptions. A true master of his craft. Ray it has to be said your
books are definitely up there with Prof. Tolkiens as some of the greatest
work of the 20th century (in my opinion anyway, anyone else agree?)   

>Those drawings sound interesting, it's always nice to see if someone else have
>visualised the story & characters like you yourself have... Like the characters
>of the Betrayal At Krondor game.. those were wonderful and spot on with many of
>my own visualisations.
>
>
>Trym
>
>------------------------------------------------------------
>Få din egen @start.no-adresse gratis på http://www.start.no/


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Subject: Re: I'm one of the 10!!
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002 07:22:53 -0700
Subject: Re: I'm one of the 10!!
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Friday, August 2, 2002, at 06:10 AM, trym asserson wrote:

> Quoting "Iain." <iainp@btinternet.com>:
>> I got an email this morning from Fireandwater.com to remind me that I
>> could pre order the special addition of Magician from them.  I already
>> ordered it yesterday so replied back saying as much and asked if I was
>> one of the 1st 10, not really expecting to get an answer.
>>
>> They replied back a minute later to say that it looked like I was!!
>> This is the first time i've one something like this and the fact it's a
>> signed copy of the limited edition Magician makes it even better.  I'm
>> going to have this huge grin on my face for the rest of the day now and
>> probably most of tomorrow.
>>
>> Yay me!!
>>
>> Iain.
>>
>
> Congrats, that sounds really good! This book looks like it'll be the 
> first ever
> duplicate in my book shelf. So far I've never had a mind to buy various 
> editions
> of any book, no matter how good, but I'll make an exception with this 
> 20th
> Anniversary ed.
>
> Those drawings sound interesting, it's always nice to see if someone 
> else have
> visualised the story & characters like you yourself have... Like the 
> characters
> of the Betrayal At Krondor game.. those were wonderful and spot on with 
> many of
> my own visualisations.
>
>

They're two drawings, one each at the start of each half of the book.  
It's a leather cover job without a dust wrap.  I think it's nice.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Subject: Re: Magician 20th Anniversary Ed
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002 07:25:06 -0700
Subject: Re: Magician 20th Anniversary Ed
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Thursday, August 1, 2002, at 08:46 PM, Jeff Weidemann wrote:

> Does Ray or any list member know whether the Australian edition will be
> the same (physically - leather bound etc), as the Harper Collins UK
> edition below.   IIRC, somebody, maybe Ray, mentioned the Australian
> edition is the same/similar to the UK edition.
>

They are identical.  In fact, they are the same book.  They came off the 
presses in England, were put into boxes, and air freighted to Oz.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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From: "Matt & Diane Maguire" <mdmaguire@att.net>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Next US Tour
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002 09:41:47 -0500
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Matt & Diane Maguire" <mdmaguire@att.net>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Next US Tour
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002 09:41:47 -0500
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Ray,

I know you don't control when and where you go on tour, but I was wondering
if you could predict something.  Do you think you will be asked to go on
tour by your US publisher for Talon when it is published here?  For that
matter, having just come off a tour a few months prior, would you agree to
do one?  Just wondering so I can decide whether to purchase the 20th Anniv.
Edition through the guy on the list or through Amazon.co.uk and wait to get
it signed if/when you come around the US.

Thanks,

--Matt Maguire



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Subject: Re: Magician 20th Anniversary Ed
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It's meant to be the same. Someone said earlier on that the Aus edition is
made in the UK. Can't see much variation occuring. Never know, however.  I
guess we'll all find out when it's released.


----- Original Message -----
From: Jeff Weidemann <jeff@pronto.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Friday, August 02, 2002 1:46 PM
Subject: RE: Magician 20th Anniversary Ed


> Does Ray or any list member know whether the Australian edition will be
> the same (physically - leather bound etc), as the Harper Collins UK
> edition below.   IIRC, somebody, maybe Ray, mentioned the Australian
> edition is the same/similar to the UK edition.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Cameron Duncan
> Sent: Friday, 2 August 2002 8:24 AM
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Subject: Magician 20th Anniversary Ed
>
>
> For those interested, found the following on the 20th Anniversary
> edition -
>
> http://www.fireandwater.com/promotions/magician_preorder.asp
>
>
>
> Cameron
>



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*** EOOH ***
From: "Iain." <iainp@btinternet.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: I'm one of the 10!!
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002 15:54:05 +0100
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

"This is the first time I've one something like this"
::Ahem::
"This is the first time I've won something like this"

I was a little too excited.


Iain.
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: Iain. 
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu 
>Sent: Friday, August 02, 2002 1:18 PM
>Subject: I'm one of the 10!!
>
>
>I got an email this morning from Fireandwater.com to remind me that I could pre order the special addition of Magician from them.  I already ordered it yesterday so replied back saying as much and asked if I was one of the 1st 10, not really expecting to get an answer.
>
>They replied back a minute later to say that it looked like I was!!  This is the first time i've one something like this and the fact it's a signed copy of the limited edition Magician makes it even better.  I'm going to have this huge grin on my face for the rest of the day now and probably most of tomorrow.
>
>Yay me!!
>
>
>Iain.

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From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Couple of pointers (Was Re: New to this list)
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002 22:54:34 +0800
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*** EOOH ***
From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Couple of pointers (Was Re: New to this list)
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002 22:54:34 +0800
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Here you go rip, this link ought to answer all/most of your questions in
a little more detal. It also provides a brief dictionary of common l33t
terms for those of you still thoroughly confused.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A772346


David


> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu 
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Richard Williamson
> Sent: Thursday, 1 August 2002 9:10 PM
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Subject: Re: Couple of pointers (Was Re: New to this list)
> 
> 
> Thanks for clearing that up, Tim.
> 
> Regards,
> rip
> 
> At 11:27 01/08/2002, Tim Nicholas spake thusly:
> >Hi rip.
> >1337 is hax0r speak for 'elite'. Via 31337 (eleet) and then dropped
> >down to 1337 (leet).
> >
> >hax0r does come from 'hacker' but i find that it is more often
> >pronounced as 'hacks-or'. 
> >
> >"1337 hax0r" (leet hacks-or) is in my experience most often 
> used with a
> >healthy dose of irony to describe script kiddies, who are most
> >defiantly not elite hackers.
> 



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Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002 08:19:18 -0700
Subject: Re: Next US Tour
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Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002 08:19:18 -0700
Subject: Re: Next US Tour
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Friday, August 2, 2002, at 07:41 AM, Matt & Diane Maguire wrote:

> Ray,
>
> I know you don't control when and where you go on tour, but I was 
> wondering
> if you could predict something.  Do you think you will be asked to go on
> tour by your US publisher for Talon when it is published here?  For that
> matter, having just come off a tour a few months prior, would you agree 
> to
> do one?  Just wondering so I can decide whether to purchase the 20th 
> Anniv.
> Edition through the guy on the list or through Amazon.co.uk and wait to 
> get
> it signed if/when you come around the US.
>

I'll almost certainly tour next spring for Avon, but US tours tend to be 
rather localized.  I may get L.A., S.F., Seattle, Denver, and Dallas, or 
they might do the L.A. Dallas, Chicago, Boston, Philly, thing, etc.  I 
have no idea of where I'm going to go, so I can't promise that I'm going 
to "come around" anywhere you're likely to be.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Subject: Offer recap for Norte Americanos
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2002 16:33:59 +0100
To: feistfans-l@cornell.edu
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Offer recap for Norte Americanos
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Hi The List,

This is just a rehash, for those that missed it first time
around.

I'm offering to purchase, get signed (*snort* Ray willing)
editions of UK only-so-far books, then hand carry them back
to California, from which I will then ship via USPS or UPS
to anyware in North America at cost (book + packaging +
postage).  

For shipping, you have the choice of snail mail via
the US postal service (Airmail parcel post, about $3 per
book) or UPS (about $2.50 per book).  No idea which one 
would get there first, or in what condition ;->

At the moment:

All prices $US...

HEnem 28.28 + 3  = 31.28 (probably won't be first ed)
MLamt 28.28 + 3  = 31.28 (might be first ed)
Talon 28.28 + 3  = 31.28 (will be first ed)
XXMag 31.44 + 3  = 34.44 (will be first ed)
               ---------
                   $129 (which should be considered the maximum)

At the moment, those prices don't include any discounts I can
wrangle out of the bookstore for Talon and the 20yr Magician.

Wait before paying.  I'll contact you anon with a more final price,
once I know how much packaging costs, and the shipping costs are
estimated using "about 2 pounds/book" as the total weight.  That 
could be way off, and if you buy more books, the shipping costs
wouldn't be 3/per, would be slightly less per.

And when Ray signs them, let me know if you want "To <you>..."
or just the default ("Best...")

Please leave "Norte Americanos" in the subject line, as that is
what I'm filtering against.

I'm currently down for about 16 books.  Which will make Ray's
pocketbook happy.

rip



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*** EOOH ***
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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I'm not going to turn this into some kind of hero-worship thread. ;) I just 
wanted to second that opinion. In short I find Ray's books to be storytelling 
at its best, if I'm going to delve into explanation as to the _why_.

But when you think of it, I mean no offense to Tolkien's books (although I have 
a feeling that one piece of criticism against him in the sci-fi/fantasy 
community makes you an outcast..), his books always struck me as quite 
simplistic stories. Maybe I haven't "discovered" the truly deeper running 
plots, and I'm not saying his world is not fantastic because that's what amazes 
me so about his works... the level of detail, the creation of languages, the 
songs, poems, etc. etc., but the storyline is like a bedtime story compared to 
some of the more intriguing novels I've seen come out in recent years.

Anyone else share my opinion, or did I just write myself into oblivion? :) 
Don't get me wrong, I'm fond of Tolkien's books (not counting the various extra 
stories, only focusing on Lord of the Rings, The Silmarillion and The Hobbit), 
but whereas I found the world magnificent and incredibly detailed, the 
storyline/plot that took place in this setting wasn't particularly (dare i say 
this?) interesting.

Trym

Quoting Paul Atkinson <paul.atkinson@isntv.co.uk>:
> A testament to Rays ability to set the scene and describe characters
> without
> lengthy descriptions. A true master of his craft. Ray it has to be said
> your
> books are definitely up there with Prof. Tolkiens as some of the
> greatest
> work of the 20th century (in my opinion anyway, anyone else agree?)   
> 
> >Those drawings sound interesting, it's always nice to see if someone
> else
> have
> >visualised the story & characters like you yourself have... Like the
> characters
> >of the Betrayal At Krondor game.. those were wonderful and spot on
> with
> many of
> >my own visualisations.
> >
> >
> >Trym
> >

------------------------------------------------------------
Få din egen @start.no-adresse gratis på http://www.start.no/



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002 09:00:51 -0700 (PDT)
From: Larry Scroggins <falling_98@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Next US Tour
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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As long as you make it to Dallas, I'll be a happy man. Actually, if you
come anywhere near Dallas, I'll be satisfied.  San Antonio or Austin would
make quite a nice road trip.

--- Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com> wrote:
> 
> On Friday, August 2, 2002, at 07:41 AM, Matt & Diane Maguire wrote:
> 
> > Ray,
> >
> > I know you don't control when and where you go on tour, but I was 
> > wondering
> > if you could predict something.  Do you think you will be asked to go
> on
> > tour by your US publisher for Talon when it is published here?  For
> that
> > matter, having just come off a tour a few months prior, would you
> agree 
> > to
> > do one?  Just wondering so I can decide whether to purchase the 20th 
> > Anniv.
> > Edition through the guy on the list or through Amazon.co.uk and wait
> to 
> > get
> > it signed if/when you come around the US.
> >
> 
> I'll almost certainly tour next spring for Avon, but US tours tend to be
> 
> rather localized.  I may get L.A., S.F., Seattle, Denver, and Dallas, or
> 
> they might do the L.A. Dallas, Chicago, Boston, Philly, thing, etc.  I 
> have no idea of where I'm going to go, so I can't promise that I'm going
> 
> to "come around" anywhere you're likely to be.
> 
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
> 
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
> stupidity.
> 


=====
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Larry Scroggins

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better
http://health.yahoo.com



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Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002 12:13:46 -0400
Subject: Re: Offer recap for Norte Americanos
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002 12:13:46 -0400
Subject: Re: Offer recap for Norte Americanos
From: Bob Montgomery <bmontgomery@mrpllc.com>
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Up to 21 now, I think <G>



On Friday, August 2, 2002, at 11:33  AM, Richard Williamson wrote:

> I'm currently down for about 16 books.  Which will make Ray's
> pocketbook happy.
>
> rip
>



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2002 13:16:37 -0400
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: Sean Fister <sean@hope.kih.net>
Subject: Re: Offer recap for Norte Americanos
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At 11:33 AM 8/2/02, you wrote:
rip:

Put me down for 20th Mag and Talon.  I would prefer UPS shipping.

Here's my name and address

Sean Fister
256 Forest Hill Dr.
Lexington, KY 40509

Please tell me when, where, how (paypal,check,money order)  to send the money.

Thanks,

Sean Fister


>Hi The List,
>
>This is just a rehash, for those that missed it first time
>around.
>
>I'm offering to purchase, get signed (*snort* Ray willing)
>editions of UK only-so-far books, then hand carry them back
>to California, from which I will then ship via USPS or UPS
>to anyware in North America at cost (book + packaging +
>postage).
>
>For shipping, you have the choice of snail mail via
>the US postal service (Airmail parcel post, about $3 per
>book) or UPS (about $2.50 per book).  No idea which one
>would get there first, or in what condition ;->
>
>At the moment:
>
>All prices $US...
>
>HEnem 28.28 + 3  = 31.28 (probably won't be first ed)
>MLamt 28.28 + 3  = 31.28 (might be first ed)
>Talon 28.28 + 3  = 31.28 (will be first ed)
>XXMag 31.44 + 3  = 34.44 (will be first ed)
>                ---------
>                    $129 (which should be considered the maximum)
>
>At the moment, those prices don't include any discounts I can
>wrangle out of the bookstore for Talon and the 20yr Magician.
>
>Wait before paying.  I'll contact you anon with a more final price,
>once I know how much packaging costs, and the shipping costs are
>estimated using "about 2 pounds/book" as the total weight.  That
>could be way off, and if you buy more books, the shipping costs
>wouldn't be 3/per, would be slightly less per.
>
>And when Ray signs them, let me know if you want "To <you>..."
>or just the default ("Best...")
>
>Please leave "Norte Americanos" in the subject line, as that is
>what I'm filtering against.
>
>I'm currently down for about 16 books.  Which will make Ray's
>pocketbook happy.
>
>rip



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002 10:27:05 -0700 (PDT)
From: Ben <volsballa34@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Next US Tour
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Yay! I live in Fort Worth (Right next to Dallas) When you figure out
what dates you are coming can you please post them so I can come try
and get an autograph or something? Thanks a lot!
Ben
 Raymond Feist wrote:
On Friday, August 2, 2002, at 07:41 AM, Matt & Diane Maguire wrote:
>
>> Ray,
>>
>> I know you don't control when and where you go on tour, but I was 
>> wondering
>> if you could predict something. Do you think you will be asked to go on
>> tour by your US publisher for Talon when it is published here? For that
>> matter, having just come off a tour a few months prior, would you agree 
>> to
>> do one? Just wondering so I can decide whether to purchase the 20th 
>> Anniv.
>> Edition through the guy on the list or through Amazon.co.uk and wait to 
>> get
>> it signed if/when you come around the US.
>>
>
>I'll almost certainly tour next spring for Avon, but US tours tend to be 
>rather localized. I may get L.A., S.F., Seattle, Denver, and Dallas, or 
>they might do the L.A. Dallas, Chicago, Boston, Philly, thing, etc. I 
>have no idea of where I'm going to go, so I can't promise that I'm going 
>to "come around" anywhere you're likely to be.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
>stupidity.

---------------------------------
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better

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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2002 13:33:05 -0400
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Everyone:

Please ignore my posted reply to rip's offer.  I forgot to change the to 
address.  My apologies.

Sean Fister



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Subject: Price for 20th Anniversary edition
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Jason Martin" <res0b95g@verizon.net>
To: "Feistfans" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Price for 20th Anniversary edition
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002 10:53:43 -0700
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I went ahead and ordered the 20th Ann. edition on Amazon.UK.  Any
other Americans interested in it, I paid a total of $29.74 (with
standard shipping) or appox. 18lb and some change.  Not to bad of a
price..  Hope this helps for anyone else thinking about getting it.

Jason

"He who can destroy a thing, controls a thing."
                 Muad'Dib 

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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Next US Tour
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002 14:27:04 -0500
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

No offense Ray, but I am really really beginning to HATE your US
publisher.  3 books are no-shows, we're getting Talon late (we are
your home market, I think it is more than fair to expect the US to
get the book first), and we almost never get you in my region, and
even when you are on tours it is often so limited that only 1/4 of
us might even be remotely close to you when you are doing signings.

We can't help pay your bills if your publisher doesn't give us
anything to buy!

-James

----- Original Message -----
From: "Raymond Feist" <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Friday, August 02, 2002 10:19 AM
Subject: Re: Next US Tour


>
> On Friday, August 2, 2002, at 07:41 AM, Matt & Diane Maguire wrote:
>
> > Ray,
> >
> > I know you don't control when and where you go on tour, but I was
> > wondering
> > if you could predict something.  Do you think you will be asked to go on
> > tour by your US publisher for Talon when it is published here? For that
> > matter, having just come off a tour a few months prior, would you agree
> > to
> > do one?  Just wondering so I can decide whether to purchase the 20th
> > Anniv.
> > Edition through the guy on the list or through Amazon.co.uk and wait to
> > get
> > it signed if/when you come around the US.
> >
>
> I'll almost certainly tour next spring for Avon, but US tours tend to be
> rather localized.  I may get L.A., S.F., Seattle, Denver, and Dallas, or
> they might do the L.A. Dallas, Chicago, Boston, Philly, thing, etc.  I
> have no idea of where I'm going to go, so I can't promise that I'm going
> to "come around" anywhere you're likely to be.
>
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
>
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
> stupidity.
>
>



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Subject: Re: Offer recap for Norte Americanos
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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Offer recap for Norte Americanos
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002 14:30:43 -0500
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Just as long as one of those is mine, I'm happy.  But like everyone
else I'm waiting for Rip to get me the info on how to PAY him, and
I'll send him my snailmail addy when he does.

-James (who's been deprived of new Feist books WAY TOO LONG...
!$#&*$%$)^&*!*@!(@(%&*^$!*%^$! univerity tuition hikes)

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Montgomery" <bmontgomery@mrpllc.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Friday, August 02, 2002 11:13 AM
Subject: Re: Offer recap for Norte Americanos


> Up to 21 now, I think <G>
>
>
>
> On Friday, August 2, 2002, at 11:33  AM, Richard Williamson wrote:
>
> > I'm currently down for about 16 books.  Which will make Ray's
> > pocketbook happy.
> >
> > rip
> >
>
>



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002 13:29:30 -0700
Subject: Re: Next US Tour
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Friday, August 2, 2002, at 12:27 PM, James Young wrote:

> No offense Ray, but I am really really beginning to HATE your US
> publisher.  3 books are no-shows, we're getting Talon late (we are
> your home market, I think it is more than fair to expect the US to
> get the book first), and we almost never get you in my region, and
> even when you are on tours it is often so limited that only 1/4 of
> us might even be remotely close to you when you are doing signings.
>
> We can't help pay your bills if your publisher doesn't give us
> anything to buy!
>

Fair?  James, what reality are you living in?

Fair has nothing to do with it.  It's all about business. Avon has a 
different business perspective (which I don't necessarily agree with, 
but then they're not paying me to run their publishing company, only to 
write books for it) than HarperCollins UK.  Harper also has some 
troubles with what Avon's doing, but that's between the two divisions.

I have nothing to say about it, honest.

As for the tour, that's to be expected.  The US has far more geography 
than the UK or any other part of Europe, and while Australia is as large 
as the US (roughly) 90% of the population live in the urban centers, so 
if I'm going to Perth, Adelaid, Melbourne, Camberra, Sydney, and 
Queensland, I'm probably within a 2 hour drive for over 50% of the 
population of the nation.

Best, R.E.F.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002 13:26:45 -0700
Subject: Re: Next US Tour
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On Friday, August 2, 2002, at 10:27 AM, Ben wrote:

> Yay! I live in Fort Worth (Right next to Dallas) When you figure out 
> what dates you are coming can you please post them so I can come try 
> and get an autograph or something? Thanks a lot!
>
> Ben
>
>
Ben,

Did you read the post?  I never said I was coming to Dallas.  I used 
those cities as an example.

I'll have more to say on touring later today or tomorrow.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002 18:07:30 EDT
Subject: Re: Price for 20th Anniversary edition
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*** EOOH ***
From: Gkhd11a@aol.com
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002 18:07:30 EDT
Subject: Re: Price for 20th Anniversary edition
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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In a message dated 8/2/02 1:21:05 PM Central Daylight Time, 
res0b95g@verizon.net writes:
>I went ahead and ordered the 20th Ann. edition on Amazon.UK.  Any other 
>Americans interested in it, I paid a total of $29.74 (with standard shipping) 
>or appox. 18lb and some change.  Not to bad of a price..  Hope this helps for 
>anyone else thinking about getting it.


So many things I want to buy, so little money.  Lord of the Rings DVD, 2nd, 
3rd, and 4th part of Belgariad (I just finished the first), CD-R's (fresh 
out), and now this.  Time to rummage around the house for lost change...

Also, has the cover art for any of the 20th Anniversary Magician come out 
yet?  And if so, where can I see it?



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From: "Cameron Duncan" <cduncan@atinera.com.au>
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Subject: RE: Price for 20th Anniversary edition
Date: Sat, 3 Aug 2002 08:31:09 +1000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Cameron Duncan" <cduncan@atinera.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Price for 20th Anniversary edition
Date: Sat, 3 Aug 2002 08:31:09 +1000
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reply below:

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Gkhd11a@aol.com
> Sent: Saturday, August 03, 2002 8:08 AM
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Subject: Re: Price for 20th Anniversary edition
>
>
> In a message dated 8/2/02 1:21:05 PM Central Daylight Time,
> res0b95g@verizon.net writes:
>
> << I went ahead and ordered the 20th Ann. edition on Amazon.UK.
> Any other
> Americans interested in it, I paid a total of $29.74 (with
> standard shipping)
> or appox. 18lb and some change.  Not to bad of a price..  Hope
> this helps for
> anyone else thinking about getting it.
>   >>
>
> So many things I want to buy, so little money.  Lord of the Rings
> DVD, 2nd,
> 3rd, and 4th part of Belgariad (I just finished the first), CD-R's (fresh
> out), and now this.  Time to rummage around the house for lost change...
>
> Also, has the cover art for any of the 20th Anniversary Magician come out
> yet?  And if so, where can I see it?

I've been hunting around for the artwork every day for about 3 weeks now.
Still
no luck.  Out of interest - does anyone know the approx printing numbers of
the 20th Anniversary book?

Hmmm, Lord of the Rings on DVD.  I feel Tuesday (the release date here in
Aust.)
will be a very late night.  So will the date in a couple of months time when
they
release the special edition DVD with the extra 40 minutes of footage.

Cameron



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From: "A Irving" <s355156@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Price for 20th Anniversary edition
Date: Sat, 3 Aug 2002 11:18:17 +1000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "A Irving" <s355156@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Price for 20th Anniversary edition
Date: Sat, 3 Aug 2002 11:18:17 +1000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I payed $36.95 australian for the LotR DVD (pre-order) which included 10
new release DVD rentals at my video store, quite a good deal. I don't
think it comes in the fancy box that the normal retail LotR DVD will
come in though.

CIAO,
         Aaron
 
http://www.hallofworlds.net/kerr/main.php
http://www.nightshadow.co.uk 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]
> On Behalf Of Cameron Duncan
> Sent: Saturday, 3 August 2002 8:31 AM
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Subject: RE: Price for 20th Anniversary edition
> 
> reply below:
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Gkhd11a@aol.com
> > Sent: Saturday, August 03, 2002 8:08 AM
> > To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > Subject: Re: Price for 20th Anniversary edition
> >
> >
> > In a message dated 8/2/02 1:21:05 PM Central Daylight Time,
> > res0b95g@verizon.net writes:
> >
> > << I went ahead and ordered the 20th Ann. edition on Amazon.UK.
> > Any other
> > Americans interested in it, I paid a total of $29.74 (with
> > standard shipping)
> > or appox. 18lb and some change.  Not to bad of a price..  Hope
> > this helps for
> > anyone else thinking about getting it.
> >   >>
> >
> > So many things I want to buy, so little money.  Lord of the Rings
> > DVD, 2nd,
> > 3rd, and 4th part of Belgariad (I just finished the first), CD-R's
> (fresh
> > out), and now this.  Time to rummage around the house for lost change...
> >
> > Also, has the cover art for any of the 20th Anniversary Magician come
> out
> > yet?  And if so, where can I see it?
> 
> I've been hunting around for the artwork every day for about 3 weeks now.
> Still
> no luck.  Out of interest - does anyone know the approx printing numbers
> of
> the 20th Anniversary book?
> 
> Hmmm, Lord of the Rings on DVD.  I feel Tuesday (the release date here in
> Aust.)
> will be a very late night.  So will the date in a couple of months time
> when
> they
> release the special edition DVD with the extra 40 minutes of footage.
> 
> Cameron



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From: "Sean Gilliam" <seanRRLincoln@neb.rr.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: I'm one of the 10!!
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002 20:16:43 -0500
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Sean Gilliam" <seanRRLincoln@neb.rr.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: I'm one of the 10!!
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002 20:16:43 -0500
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu



>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Raymond Feist
>Sent: Friday, August 02, 2002 9:23 AM
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: Re: I'm one of the 10!!
>
>
>
>On Friday, August 2, 2002, at 06:10 AM, trym asserson wrote:
>
>> Quoting "Iain." <iainp@btinternet.com>:
>>> I got an email this morning from Fireandwater.com to remind me that I
>>> could pre order the special addition of Magician from them.  I already
>>> ordered it yesterday so replied back saying as much and asked if I was
>>> one of the 1st 10, not really expecting to get an answer.
>>>
>>> They replied back a minute later to say that it looked like I was!!
>>> This is the first time i've one something like this and the fact it's a
>>> signed copy of the limited edition Magician makes it even better.  I'm
>>> going to have this huge grin on my face for the rest of the day now and
>>> probably most of tomorrow.
>>>
>>> Yay me!!
>>>
>>> Iain.
>>>
>>
>> Congrats, that sounds really good! This book looks like it'll be the
>> first ever
>> duplicate in my book shelf. So far I've never had a mind to buy various
>> editions
>> of any book, no matter how good, but I'll make an exception with this
>> 20th
>> Anniversary ed.
>>
>> Those drawings sound interesting, it's always nice to see if someone
>> else have
>> visualised the story & characters like you yourself have... Like the
>> characters
>> of the Betrayal At Krondor game.. those were wonderful and spot on with
>> many of
>> my own visualisations.
>>
>>
>
>They're two drawings, one each at the start of each half of the book.
>It's a leather cover job without a dust wrap.  I think it's nice.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
>stupidity.

Ok.... I'm a little slow on the uptake. Is there a leather edition and where
do I go to purchase it. I just cant wait to throw my money at Ray but I want
the leather cover :). Please excuse my confusion on this matter!



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From: "Dennis Groome" <nallix@cox.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
References: <000001c23a34$844d6410$1100a8c0@wolf>
Subject: Re: Couple of pointers (Was Re: New to this list)
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Dennis Groome" <nallix@cox.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Couple of pointers (Was Re: New to this list)
Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002 20:24:53 -0500
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu



-Dennis H. Groome V
ICQ: 11430261 AIM/Yahoo: AmoNympham
Microsoft Messenger: marcus_giovani@hotmail.com


----- Original Message -----
From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Friday, August 02, 2002 9:54 AM
Subject: RE: Couple of pointers (Was Re: New to this list)


> Here you go rip, this link ought to answer all/most of your questions in
> a little more detal. It also provides a brief dictionary of common l33t
> terms for those of you still thoroughly confused.
>
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A772346
>
>

be warned:  this "guide" starts out ok, but makes a horrible, horrible
mistake.  1337 did not resurface because of a comic, let alone Megatokyo
(don't get me wrong, I like MT, I read it every day).  to be honest, it
never left.  the author also makes the mistake of saying that 1337 dropped
out of online gaming.  he obviously has never played a game of
Counterstrike, long before Megatokyo even started.  while the "dictionary"
is accurate, the history is not.



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From: "Cameron Duncan" <cduncan@atinera.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: I'm one of the 10!!
Date: Sat, 3 Aug 2002 11:29:16 +1000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Cameron Duncan" <cduncan@atinera.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: I'm one of the 10!!
Date: Sat, 3 Aug 2002 11:29:16 +1000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu



> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Sean Gilliam
> Sent: Saturday, August 03, 2002 11:17 AM
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Subject: RE: I'm one of the 10!!
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Raymond Feist
> Sent: Friday, August 02, 2002 9:23 AM
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Subject: Re: I'm one of the 10!!
>
>
>
> On Friday, August 2, 2002, at 06:10 AM, trym asserson wrote:
>
> > Quoting "Iain." <iainp@btinternet.com>:
> >> I got an email this morning from Fireandwater.com to remind me that I
> >> could pre order the special addition of Magician from them.  I already
> >> ordered it yesterday so replied back saying as much and asked if I was
> >> one of the 1st 10, not really expecting to get an answer.
> >>
> >> They replied back a minute later to say that it looked like I was!!
> >> This is the first time i've one something like this and the fact it's a
> >> signed copy of the limited edition Magician makes it even better.  I'm
> >> going to have this huge grin on my face for the rest of the day now and
> >> probably most of tomorrow.
> >>
> >> Yay me!!
> >>
> >> Iain.
> >>
> >
> > Congrats, that sounds really good! This book looks like it'll be the
> > first ever
> > duplicate in my book shelf. So far I've never had a mind to buy various
> > editions
> > of any book, no matter how good, but I'll make an exception with this
> > 20th
> > Anniversary ed.
> >
> > Those drawings sound interesting, it's always nice to see if someone
> > else have
> > visualised the story & characters like you yourself have... Like the
> > characters
> > of the Betrayal At Krondor game.. those were wonderful and spot on with
> > many of
> > my own visualisations.
> >
> >
>
> They're two drawings, one each at the start of each half of the book.
> It's a leather cover job without a dust wrap.  I think it's nice.
>
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
>
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
> stupidity.
>
> Ok.... I'm a little slow on the uptake. Is there a leather
> edition and where
> do I go to purchase it. I just cant wait to throw my money at Ray
> but I want
> the leather cover :). Please excuse my confusion on this matter!
>
>
There is a leather edition.  Actually, there is only a leather edition as
far
as I know.  It is only available in the UK and UK export
markets, or via online booksellers like Amazon.co.uk  Alternatively RIP is
doing something for people on the list - see his previous post.

Cameron



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Subject: RE: Price for 20th Anniversary edition
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From: Jason Mulligan <manwe@internode.on.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Date: Sat, 3 Aug 2002 11:54:05 +1000
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Subject: RE: Price for 20th Anniversary edition
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On Sat, 3 Aug 2002 11:18:17 +1000, A Irving wrote:
>I payed $36.95 australian for the LotR DVD (pre-order) which included 10
>new release DVD rentals at my video store, quite a good deal. I don't
>think it comes in the fancy box that the normal retail LotR DVD will
>come in though.

Umm...the Aug release doesnt come in any fancy box. You're thinking about the 
Nov set, which one version comes in a fancy box with IIRC bookends and stuff.

Thats a pretty good deal though, esp if your a regular renter.

--
 What if the Hokey Pokey *IS* what it's all about?



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From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Couple of pointers (Was Re: New to this list)
Date: Sat, 3 Aug 2002 10:56:45 +0800
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From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Couple of pointers (Was Re: New to this list)
Date: Sat, 3 Aug 2002 10:56:45 +0800
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My apologies, that's what happens when someone makes it sound like they
know what they're talking about. Someone else will post a link to their
webpage.

David

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu 
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Dennis Groome
> Sent: Saturday, 3 August 2002 9:25 AM
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Subject: Re: Couple of pointers (Was Re: New to this list)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -Dennis H. Groome V
> ICQ: 11430261 AIM/Yahoo: AmoNympham
> Microsoft Messenger: marcus_giovani@hotmail.com
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
> To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> Sent: Friday, August 02, 2002 9:54 AM
> Subject: RE: Couple of pointers (Was Re: New to this list)
> 
> 
> > Here you go rip, this link ought to answer all/most of your 
> questions in
> > a little more detal. It also provides a brief dictionary of 
> common l33t
> > terms for those of you still thoroughly confused.
> >
> > http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A772346
> >
> >
> 
> be warned:  this "guide" starts out ok, but makes a horrible, horrible
> mistake.  1337 did not resurface because of a comic, let 
> alone Megatokyo
> (don't get me wrong, I like MT, I read it every day).  to be 
> honest, it
> never left.  the author also makes the mistake of saying that 
> 1337 dropped
> out of online gaming.  he obviously has never played a game of
> Counterstrike, long before Megatokyo even started.  while the 
> "dictionary"
> is accurate, the history is not.
> 



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Subject: Re: Next US Tour
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Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2002 21:47:54 -0600
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Next US Tour
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Raymond Feist wrote:
> 
> I'll almost certainly tour next spring for Avon, but US tours tend to be
> rather localized.  I may get L.A., S.F., Seattle, Denver, and Dallas, or
> they might do the L.A. Dallas, Chicago, Boston, Philly, thing, etc.  I
> have no idea of where I'm going to go, so I can't promise that I'm going
> to "come around" anywhere you're likely to be.

So is now a good time to start talking to the local bookstores about
trying to convince Avon to bring you here next year? :)

Craig J. Ries



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Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2002 21:51:26 -0600
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Price for 20th Anniversary edition
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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A Irving wrote:
> 
> I payed $36.95 australian for the LotR DVD (pre-order) which included 10
> new release DVD rentals at my video store, quite a good deal. I don't
> think it comes in the fancy box that the normal retail LotR DVD will
> come in though.

Yeah, my wife went up to Blockbuster and did the same thing: $25 for 10
rentals (one a week) and a free copy of first FotR DVD.
Atleast this first one has the 10 minute preview and some
behind-the-scene stuff :)

It is a good deal. :)

But as Jason said, the Nov. version should be the fancy box.


Craig J. Ries



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From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Price for 20th Anniversary edition
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Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2002 09:24:57 +1000 (GMT+1000)
From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Price for 20th Anniversary edition
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Gkhd11a@aol.com
> > Sent: Saturday, August 03, 2002 8:08 AM
> > To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > Subject: Re: Price for 20th Anniversary edition
> >
> >
> > In a message dated 8/2/02 1:21:05 PM Central Daylight Time,
> > res0b95g@verizon.net writes:
> >
> > << I went ahead and ordered the 20th Ann. edition on Amazon.UK.
> > Any other
> > Americans interested in it, I paid a total of $29.74 (with
> > standard shipping)
> > or appox. 18lb and some change.  Not to bad of a price..  Hope
> > this helps for
> > anyone else thinking about getting it.
> >   >>
> >
> > So many things I want to buy, so little money.  Lord of the Rings
> > DVD, 2nd,
> > 3rd, and 4th part of Belgariad (I just finished the first), CD-R's (fresh
> > out), and now this.  Time to rummage around the house for lost change...
> >
> > Also, has the cover art for any of the 20th Anniversary Magician come out
> > yet?  And if so, where can I see it?
>
> I've been hunting around for the artwork every day for about 3 weeks now.
> Still
> no luck.  Out of interest - does anyone know the approx printing numbers of
> the 20th Anniversary book?
> Hmmm, Lord of the Rings on DVD.  I feel Tuesday (the release date here in
> Aust.)
> will be a very late night.  So will the date in a couple of months time when
> they
> release the special edition DVD with the extra 40 minutes of footage.
> Cameron

November in Australia. I've been debating about which version to purchase,
and I've half-heartingly decided to get both.

Thanks
Darragh
================================================
msn: iamtheporkfireman@hotmail.com

"Believe or die - thank you O lord for all those
 options" - Bill Hicks.
================================================



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Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2002 09:26:18 +1000 (GMT+1000)
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Subject: RE: Price for 20th Anniversary edition
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2002 09:26:18 +1000 (GMT+1000)
From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Price for 20th Anniversary edition
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Aaron, I should have told you this before, but you can buy it at Video Ezy
for $31

Which I have:P


> I payed $36.95 australian for the LotR DVD (pre-order) which included 10
> new release DVD rentals at my video store, quite a good deal. I don't
> think it comes in the fancy box that the normal retail LotR DVD will
> come in though.
>
> CIAO,
>          Aaron
>
> http://www.hallofworlds.net/kerr/main.php
> http://www.nightshadow.co.uk
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]
> > On Behalf Of Cameron Duncan
> > Sent: Saturday, 3 August 2002 8:31 AM
> > To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > Subject: RE: Price for 20th Anniversary edition
> >
> > reply below:
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > > [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Gkhd11a@aol.com
> > > Sent: Saturday, August 03, 2002 8:08 AM
> > > To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > > Subject: Re: Price for 20th Anniversary edition
> > >
> > >
> > > In a message dated 8/2/02 1:21:05 PM Central Daylight Time,
> > > res0b95g@verizon.net writes:
> > >
> > > << I went ahead and ordered the 20th Ann. edition on Amazon.UK.
> > > Any other
> > > Americans interested in it, I paid a total of $29.74 (with
> > > standard shipping)
> > > or appox. 18lb and some change.  Not to bad of a price..  Hope
> > > this helps for
> > > anyone else thinking about getting it.
> > >   >>
> > >
> > > So many things I want to buy, so little money.  Lord of the Rings
> > > DVD, 2nd,
> > > 3rd, and 4th part of Belgariad (I just finished the first), CD-R's
> > (fresh
> > > out), and now this.  Time to rummage around the house for lost
> change...
> > >
> > > Also, has the cover art for any of the 20th Anniversary Magician
> come
> > out
> > > yet?  And if so, where can I see it?
> >
> > I've been hunting around for the artwork every day for about 3 weeks
> now.
> > Still
> > no luck.  Out of interest - does anyone know the approx printing
> numbers
> > of
> > the 20th Anniversary book?
> >
> > Hmmm, Lord of the Rings on DVD.  I feel Tuesday (the release date here
> in
> > Aust.)
> > will be a very late night.  So will the date in a couple of months
> time
> > when
> > they
> > release the special edition DVD with the extra 40 minutes of footage.
> >
> > Cameron
>
>

Thanks
Darragh
================================================
msn: iamtheporkfireman@hotmail.com

"Believe or die - thank you O lord for all those
 options" - Bill Hicks.
================================================



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To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
References: <Pine.OSF.4.30.0208040925430.30394-100000@student.uq.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Price for 20th Anniversary edition
Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2002 09:38:59 +1000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "A Gnome" <nightshadow@froggy.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Price for 20th Anniversary edition
Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2002 09:38:59 +1000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

It was $31 at Blockbuster aswell, or $36.95 inlcuding 10 new release rentals
which are $7 each. Of course there is a catch you can only get one rental a
week for 10 weeks.

CIAO,
           Aaron

http://www.hallofworlds.net/kerr/main.php
http://www.nightshadow.co.uk
----- Original Message -----
From: "Darragh Murray" <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Sunday, August 04, 2002 9:26 AM
Subject: RE: Price for 20th Anniversary edition


> Aaron, I should have told you this before, but you can buy it at Video Ezy
> for $31
>
> Which I have:P
>
>
> > I payed $36.95 australian for the LotR DVD (pre-order) which included 10
> > new release DVD rentals at my video store, quite a good deal. I don't
> > think it comes in the fancy box that the normal retail LotR DVD will
> > come in though.
> >
> > CIAO,
> >          Aaron
> >
> > http://www.hallofworlds.net/kerr/main.php
> > http://www.nightshadow.co.uk
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]
> > > On Behalf Of Cameron Duncan
> > > Sent: Saturday, 3 August 2002 8:31 AM
> > > To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > > Subject: RE: Price for 20th Anniversary edition
> > >
> > > reply below:
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > > > [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Gkhd11a@aol.com
> > > > Sent: Saturday, August 03, 2002 8:08 AM
> > > > To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > > > Subject: Re: Price for 20th Anniversary edition
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > In a message dated 8/2/02 1:21:05 PM Central Daylight Time,
> > > > res0b95g@verizon.net writes:
> > > >
> > > > << I went ahead and ordered the 20th Ann. edition on Amazon.UK.
> > > > Any other
> > > > Americans interested in it, I paid a total of $29.74 (with
> > > > standard shipping)
> > > > or appox. 18lb and some change.  Not to bad of a price..  Hope
> > > > this helps for
> > > > anyone else thinking about getting it.
> > > >   >>
> > > >
> > > > So many things I want to buy, so little money.  Lord of the Rings
> > > > DVD, 2nd,
> > > > 3rd, and 4th part of Belgariad (I just finished the first), CD-R's
> > > (fresh
> > > > out), and now this.  Time to rummage around the house for lost
> > change...
> > > >
> > > > Also, has the cover art for any of the 20th Anniversary Magician
> > come
> > > out
> > > > yet?  And if so, where can I see it?
> > >
> > > I've been hunting around for the artwork every day for about 3 weeks
> > now.
> > > Still
> > > no luck.  Out of interest - does anyone know the approx printing
> > numbers
> > > of
> > > the 20th Anniversary book?
> > >
> > > Hmmm, Lord of the Rings on DVD.  I feel Tuesday (the release date here
> > in
> > > Aust.)
> > > will be a very late night.  So will the date in a couple of months
> > time
> > > when
> > > they
> > > release the special edition DVD with the extra 40 minutes of footage.
> > >
> > > Cameron
> >
> >
>
> Thanks
> Darragh
> ================================================
> msn: iamtheporkfireman@hotmail.com
>
> "Believe or die - thank you O lord for all those
>  options" - Bill Hicks.
> ================================================
>



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From: Jason Mulligan <manwe@internode.on.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
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On Sun, 4 Aug 2002 09:24:57 +1000 (GMT+1000), Darragh Murray wrote:

>> Hmmm, Lord of the Rings on DVD.  I feel Tuesday (the release date here in
>> Aust.)
>> will be a very late night.  So will the date in a couple of months time when
>> they
>> release the special edition DVD with the extra 40 minutes of footage.
>> Cameron
>
>November in Australia. I've been debating about which version to purchase,
>and I've half-heartingly decided to get both.

Hehe. me too, mainly due to the fact that neither version shares extras. Thus, 
I'll probably try and pickup a cheap copy of the Aug version in November, as 
I'm sure more than a few copies will be dumped at that stage.


--
 What if the Hokey Pokey *IS* what it's all about?



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Subject: Re: Price for 20th Anniversary edition
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Jason Martin" <res0b95g@verizon.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Price for 20th Anniversary edition
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> November in Australia. I've been debating about which version to purchase,
> and I've half-heartingly decided to get both.
>
> Thanks
> Darragh
> ================================================
> msn: iamtheporkfireman@hotmail.com
>
> "Believe or die - thank you O lord for all those
>  options" - Bill Hicks.
> ================================================
>
Yea I decided go buy both versions of the film. I Loved the Theatrical
version, and there is a chance (very small one) that I may not like the
Director's cut of the film.  But seeing how it doesn't come out till
November I can not wait that long, so I am buying the Thatrical version on
Tuesday morning.... Hmm I should call in sick that night for work, and stay
home and watch it... =)

Jason



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I was chatting with Bob today at the Comic-Con, and brought up the 
comment someone here had made that he might make an interesting pairing 
with Ray for a "Legends" book.
His response was that, as much as he enjoys Ray's writing, he considers 
his own to be too close in style and worldview, and doesn't see what he 
could really contribute that Ray cound't do at least as well himself.

The topic then turned to Ray Bradbury

cd
-- 
Death to all Absolutists!



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*** EOOH ***
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: could someone remind me of a UK tour date?
Date: Sun, 04 Aug 2002 13:35:46 +0200 (CEST)
From: trym asserson <teeba@start.no>
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Again, tour dates...

I forgot the schedule, but could someone either point me to an updated
schedule for the UK, or just remind me when Ray's visiting Border's on
Oxford Street, London?

All the best,

Trym

------------------------------------------------------------
Få din egen @start.no-adresse gratis på http://www.start.no/



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From: "Justin" <justin.carew@ntlworld.com>
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Subject: getting a signed book
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Justin" <justin.carew@ntlworld.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: getting a signed book
Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2002 22:17:23 +0100
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I'm not sure if this has been asked before, but is there any way I
could get a signed copy of Magician 20th or Talon or both. I can't get
to any of the signings. BTW I live in Scotland, that might help... or
not.


Justin



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From: "Christopher Livingston" <Chrislivingston@btinternet.com>
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References: <E17Rtwl-0005aj-00@nitro.vosn.net> <1028460946.3d4d119207801@epost.start.no>
Subject: Re: could someone remind me of a UK tour date?
Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2002 23:14:46 +0100
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Christopher Livingston" <Chrislivingston@btinternet.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: could someone remind me of a UK tour date?
Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2002 23:14:46 +0100
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Here you are.


Chris


| Monday 9 September
|
| Lunch signing at        Hammicks        12.30-1.30pm
| 60-62 St Anns Road
| Harrow
| Contact:        Tony
| Tel:            020 8863 4578
|
| Evening event at        Borders 6.30pm
| 203-207 Oxford Street
| London W1
| Contact:        Simon
| Chaired by:     Pat Cadigan
| Tel:            020 7292 1650
| In conversation with Miller Lau
|
| Tuesday 10 September
| Lunch signing at        Hammicks        12.30-1.30pm
| 14-16 Chelsea House
| Queen Anne's Walk
| Basingstoke
| Contact:        Bob
| Tel:            01256 460646
|
| Wednesday 11 September
| Evening event at        Ottakar's       6.30pm
| 72 Midsummer Place
| Milton Keynes
| Bucks
| Contact:        Ben Donlan
| Tel:            01908 395384
|
| Thursday 12 September
| Lunch signing at        Blackwell's     12.30-1.30pm
| 89 Park Street
| Bristol
| Contact:        Duncan Dewfall
| Tel:            0117 927 6602
|
| Evening event at        Waterstone's    6.00pm
| 128 Princes Street
| Edinburgh
| Contact:        Jo  Gordon
| Tel:            0131 226 2666
|
| Friday 13 September
| Lunch signing with      Ottakar's       12.30-1.30pm
| 31 The Bridges
| Sunderland
| Contact:        Steve Robinson
| Tel:            0191 567 4331
|
| Evening event at        Waterstone's,   7.00pm
| 91 Deansgate
| Manchester
| Contact:        Michael Rowley/Jon Atkin
| Tel:            0161 837 3000
|
| Saturday 14 September
| Lunch signing with      Ottakar's               1.00-2.00pm
| 76 High Street
| Chelmsford
| Essex
| Contact:        Clair Knight
| Tel:            01245 268737
|
|

----- Original Message -----
>From: "trym asserson" <teeba@start.no>
>To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
>Sent: Sunday, August 04, 2002 12:35 PM
>Subject: could someone remind me of a UK tour date?
>
>
>Again, tour dates...
>
>I forgot the schedule, but could someone either point me to an updated
>schedule
>for the UK, or just remind me when Ray's visiting Border's on Oxford Street,
>London?
>
>All the best,
>
>Trym
>
>------------------------------------------------------------
>Få din egen @start.no-adresse gratis på http://www.start.no/
>


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Subject: RE: I'm one of the 10!!
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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*** EOOH ***
From: tim.plummer@ap.interfaceinc.com
Subject: RE: I'm one of the 10!!
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 09:12:33 +1000
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<snip>
>But when you think of it, I mean no offense to Tolkien's books (although I have
>a feeling that one piece of criticism against him in the sci-fi/fantasy
>community makes you an outcast..), his books always struck me as quite
>simplistic stories.

I agree. I once read a comic book version of Lord of the Rings. Any book
that can be simplified that much can't have a very deep running plot

<snip>
>Trym

Most other authors seem dull in comparison to REF. There is just something
about REF's books that just make you want to keep reading.

Tim



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Subject: Re: I'm one of the 10!!
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Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 01:30:39 +0200
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On Mon, Aug 05, 2002 at 09:12:33AM +1000, tim.plummer@ap.interfaceinc.com wrote:
> 
> <snip>
> >But when you think of it, I mean no offense to Tolkien's books (although I
> have
> >a feeling that one piece of criticism against him in the sci-fi/fantasy
> >community makes you an outcast..), his books always struck me as quite
> >simplistic stories.
> 
> I agree. I once read a comic book version of Lord of the Rings. Any book
> that can be simplified that much can't have a very deep running plot

Bullshit.  Just about any book can be simplified that much.
I don't think it would be any more difficult to make a comic book
version of 'Magician' than of LoTR, nor would the final result
necessarily be any worse. 
In fact I would say that the plot of almost any book can be condensed
to a page or two.

Anyway Tolkien's strength is not really in the plotting (which is
amittedly not very complex) but rather in the worldbuilding which is
about as good as it gets.

> 
> <snip>
> >Trym
> 
> Most other authors seem dull in comparison to REF. There is just something
> about REF's books that just make you want to keep reading.

REF is a good storyteller, true, but the stories themselves are not
really all that special.  Similar plots can be found in many other
places.  But then there are very few truly new ideas anyway, and often
the important thing is not what you say but how you say it.


-- 
<Insert your favourite quote here.>
Erik Trulsson
ertr1013@student.uu.se



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 09:45:09 +1000 (GMT+1000)
From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: I'm one of the 10!!
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> I agree. I once read a comic book version of Lord of the Rings. Any book
> that can be simplified that much can't have a very deep running plot

I really don't think that reading a comic book version of Lord of Rings
can make you eligible to comment on the books.

I've read LoTR, and I can tell you, they're 'deep' in terms of content.

On the subject of everything being simplistic, I'm of the opinion that all
fantasy stories can be simplfied into a lowest common denominator, e.g.
fantasy books reflecting folklore and myth.

> <snip>
> >Trym

Thanks
Darragh
================================================
msn: iamtheporkfireman@hotmail.com

"Believe or die - thank you O lord for all those
 options" - Bill Hicks.
================================================



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Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2002 16:59:30 -0700
Subject: Re: I'm one of the 10!!
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2002 16:59:30 -0700
Subject: Re: I'm one of the 10!!
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On Sunday, August 4, 2002, at 04:12 PM, tim.plummer@ap.interfaceinc.com 
wrote:

>
> <snip>
>> But when you think of it, I mean no offense to Tolkien's books 
>> (although I
> have
>> a feeling that one piece of criticism against him in the sci-fi/fantasy
>> community makes you an outcast..), his books always struck me as quite
>> simplistic stories.
>
> I agree. I once read a comic book version of Lord of the Rings. Any book
> that can be simplified that much can't have a very deep running plot

You're making a false assumption.  You can simplify any plot; it just 
depends on what you decide to cut or keep.  When I was a kid we had a 
series of comic books called Classics Illustrated, and they did 
adaptations of some very complex stuff, including the Illiad, War and 
Peace, Silas Marner, Last of the Mohecans, The Three Musketeers, etc.  
Moby Dick is not a simple plot, yet it made a decent comic.
>

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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From: Larry Scroggins <falling_98@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: I'm one of the 10!!
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2002 18:40:55 -0700 (PDT)
From: Larry Scroggins <falling_98@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: I'm one of the 10!!
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


--- tim.plummer@ap.interfaceinc.com wrote:
> 
> <snip>
> >But when you think of it, I mean no offense to Tolkien's books
> (although I
> have
> >a feeling that one piece of criticism against him in the sci-fi/fantasy
> >community makes you an outcast..), his books always struck me as quite
> >simplistic stories.
> 
> I agree. I once read a comic book version of Lord of the Rings. Any book
> that can be simplified that much can't have a very deep running plot
> 
> <snip>
> >Trym
> 
> Most other authors seem dull in comparison to REF. There is just
> something
> about REF's books that just make you want to keep reading.
> 
> Tim
> 

I like Ray's storytelling as much as anyone on this list, but this is
taking things too far.  I can't imagine how anyone could believe that
Magician or the Serpentwar Saga is too complex to turn into a comic book. 
They're not.  I don't think I've ever read anything that was too complex
to work as a comic, and I'm willing to bet that I've read as much as
anyone here.  Get real, and get your nose out of Ray's ass.  It can't be
all that comfortable for him.  I understand that it's a bit of a novelty
to be able to actually converse with a "celebrity,"  but I can't believe
that he really enjoys having his ego stroked as much as this list likes to
do it.


=====
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Larry Scroggins

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better
http://health.yahoo.com



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From: "Cameron Duncan" <cduncan@atinera.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: OT: LOTR DVD
Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 14:19:33 +1000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Cameron Duncan" <cduncan@atinera.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: OT: LOTR DVD
Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 14:19:33 +1000
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For those Aussies on the list that want to get the DVD today, it
is in the shops now (well at HMV & JB).
A day early!

JB Hi Fi had it marked down from $41.99 AU to $32.60 AU

I imagine there will be even cheaper deals out there by tommorrow?

:)

Cameron 



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From: "Jeff Weidemann" <jeff@pronto.com.au>
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Subject: RE: LOTR DVD
Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 14:30:58 +1000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Jeff Weidemann" <jeff@pronto.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: LOTR DVD
Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 14:30:58 +1000
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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FYI.  Big W often beats JB in Victoria

-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Cameron Duncan
>Sent: Monday, 5 August 2002 2:20 PM
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: OT: LOTR DVD
>
>
>For those Aussies on the list that want to get the DVD today, it is in
>the shops now (well at HMV & JB). A day early!
>
>JB Hi Fi had it marked down from $41.99 AU to $32.60 AU
>
>I imagine there will be even cheaper deals out there by tommorrow?
>
>:)
>
>Cameron 
>


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Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2002 22:17:31 -0700 (PDT)
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From: Chris Vance <pikachu_chris@yahoo.com.sg>
Subject: Re: getting a signed book
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2002 22:17:31 -0700 (PDT)
From: Chris Vance <pikachu_chris@yahoo.com.sg>
Subject: Re: getting a signed book
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Ray,

I remember, in the Fiestfan FAQ, that there was a
section on sending books to you to be signed. I
remember it saying not to send books to you just than,
as you were moving house or something to that effect. 

Would I be to presumptuous in thinking that your
moving period is over and that we can start to send
you books for signing again?

CIA

P.S. Please say we can start sending you books because
those of us stuck in Singapore just can't convince any
of the bookstores to get you to come over.

--- Justin <justin.carew@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> I'm not sure if this has been asked before, but is
> there any way I
> could get a signed copy of Magician 20th or Talon or
> both. I can't get
> to any of the signings. BTW I live in Scotland, that
> might help... or
> not.
> 
> 
> Justin
> 


=====
The Brainless

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better
http://health.yahoo.com



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To: feistfans-l@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Dan Lorey <dl24@cornell.edu>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 05 Aug 2002 01:41:31 -0400
To: feistfans-l@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
From: Dan Lorey <dl24@cornell.edu>
Subject: ADMIN: Announcement
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Hi all,

  Just wanted to let the list know that, after a rather intense summer
filled with teaching and family crises, I'm going to be heading out on
Monday for a much needed vacation. I will be checking my email 
periodically to handle administrative problems regarding the list, but
I intend on spending most of my time doing things that don't involve
sitting at the computer. Things will get taken care of, but there may
be some delay involved. I plan on enjoying my time away visiting a 
very good friend in the redwood wilds of northernmost California...

  Try to behave while I'm away, everyone :)

  -Dan
----------
Dan Lorey - Feistfans-L List Owner



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*** EOOH ***
From: "James Young" <jajy@earthlink.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: ADMIN: Announcement
Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 02:46:52 -0500
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Have a pleasant and RELAXING trip Dan.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan Lorey" <dl24@cornell.edu>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <feistfans-l@cornell.edu>
Sent: Monday, August 05, 2002 12:41 AM
Subject: ADMIN: Announcement


> Hi all,
>
>   Just wanted to let the list know that, after a rather intense summer
> filled with teaching and family crises, I'm going to be heading out on
> Monday for a much needed vacation. I will be checking my email
> periodically to handle administrative problems regarding the list, but
> I intend on spending most of my time doing things that don't involve
> sitting at the computer. Things will get taken care of, but there may
> be some delay involved. I plan on enjoying my time away visiting a
> very good friend in the redwood wilds of northernmost California...
>
>   Try to behave while I'm away, everyone :)
>
>   -Dan
> ----------
> Dan Lorey - Feistfans-L List Owner
>



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*** EOOH ***
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Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 19:16:01 +1000
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----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dan Lorey" <dl24@cornell.edu>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <feistfans-l@cornell.edu>
Sent: Monday, August 05, 2002 3:41 PM
Subject: ADMIN: Announcement


> Hi all,
> 
>   Just wanted to let the list know that, after a rather intense summer
> filled with teaching and family crises, I'm going to be heading out on
> Monday for a much needed vacation. I will be checking my email 
> periodically to handle administrative problems regarding the list, but
> I intend on spending most of my time doing things that don't involve
> sitting at the computer. Things will get taken care of, but there may
> be some delay involved. I plan on enjoying my time away visiting a 
> very good friend in the redwood wilds of northernmost California...
> 
>   Try to behave while I'm away, everyone :)
> 
>   -Dan

Let the chaos begin!

Nah, seriously, have a good time, Dan. Hope it's a blast.

Cheers,
James



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Subject: RE: I'm one of the 10!!
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Date: Mon, 05 Aug 2002 11:06:28 +0200 (CEST)
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*** EOOH ***
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: RE: I'm one of the 10!!
Date: Mon, 05 Aug 2002 11:06:28 +0200 (CEST)
From: trym asserson <teeba@start.no>
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Quoting Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>:
>> I agree. I once read a comic book version of Lord of the Rings. Any
>> book that can be simplified that much can't have a very deep running plot

> I really don't think that reading a comic book version of Lord of
> Rings can make you eligible to comment on the books.
> 
> I've read LoTR, and I can tell you, they're 'deep' in terms of
> content.

How so?

<snip> (borrowing from another mail)
Trulsson wrote:
>>>Anyway Tolkien's strength is not really in the plotting (which is
>>>amittedly not very complex) but rather in the worldbuilding which is
>>>about as good as it gets.
<snip>

Which is what I said initially.. the great thing about these books is the world,
not really the story.

> > <snip>
> > >Trym

Please don't misquote me if that's what's happened here. I didn't make the one
above about comics, I started out by asking for opinions on people seeing deeper
plots in LoTR and I'm probing you a bit more now for their nature ( :)), not
that a book was simplistic because it could be made into a comic. Of which I'm
also of the idea that practically any kind of book could be simplified.
 
Trym

> Thanks
> Darragh
> ================================================
> msn: iamtheporkfireman@hotmail.com
> 
> "Believe or die - thank you O lord for all those
>  options" - Bill Hicks.
> ================================================

------------------------------------------------------------
Få din egen @start.no-adresse gratis på http://www.start.no/



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Subject: Re: getting a signed book
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 06:29:45 -0700
Subject: Re: getting a signed book
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Sunday, August 4, 2002, at 10:17 PM, Chris Vance wrote:

> Ray,
>
> I remember, in the Fiestfan FAQ, that there was a
> section on sending books to you to be signed. I
> remember it saying not to send books to you just than,
> as you were moving house or something to that effect.
>
> Would I be to presumptuous in thinking that your
> moving period is over and that we can start to send
> you books for signing again?
>
> CIA
>
> P.S. Please say we can start sending you books because
> those of us stuck in Singapore just can't convince any
> of the bookstores to get you to come over.
>

No, that's changed.  I had several books lost in the mail and decided to 
discontinue the practice.  Overseas shipments were especially 
problematic.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 06:28:46 -0700
Subject: Re: ADMIN: Announcement
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Sunday, August 4, 2002, at 10:41 PM, Dan Lorey wrote:

> Hi all,
>
>   Just wanted to let the list know that, after a rather intense summer
> filled with teaching and family crises, I'm going to be heading out on
> Monday for a much needed vacation. I will be checking my email
> periodically to handle administrative problems regarding the list, but
> I intend on spending most of my time doing things that don't involve
> sitting at the computer. Things will get taken care of, but there may
> be some delay involved. I plan on enjoying my time away visiting a
> very good friend in the redwood wilds of northernmost California...
>
>   Try to behave while I'm away, everyone :)
>
>   -Dan
> ----------
> Dan Lorey - Feistfans-L List Owner
>
>
>
>

Enjoy.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
From: "Matt & Diane Maguire" <mdmaguire@att.net>
To: "FEISTFANS-L" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Rip
Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 09:07:52 -0500
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I want to request a book, but you do not have your e-mail address in the
Recap posting.  What would it be?

--Matt Maguire
mdmaguire@att.net



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From: Joel Rosenberg <joelr@ellegon.com>
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*** EOOH ***
From: Joel Rosenberg <joelr@ellegon.com>
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Organization: Ellegon, Inc.
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: ADMIN: Announcement
Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 09:34:17 -0500
User-Agent: KMail/1.4.2
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

On Monday 05 August 2002 12:41 am, Dan Lorey wrote:
> Hi all,
>
>   Just wanted to let the list know that, after a rather intense summer
> filled with teaching and family crises, I'm going to be heading out on
> Monday for a much needed vacation. I will be checking my email
> periodically to handle administrative problems regarding the list, but
> I intend on spending most of my time doing things that don't involve
> sitting at the computer. Things will get taken care of, but there may
> be some delay involved. I plan on enjoying my time away visiting a
> very good friend in the redwood wilds of northernmost California...
>
>   Try to behave while I'm away, everyone :)
>
>   -Dan
> ----------
> Dan Lorey - Feistfans-L List Owner

Enjoy your vacation; sounds like you need it.



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From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: Offer recap for Norte Americanos
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 05 Aug 2002 16:13:57 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: Offer recap for Norte Americanos
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

At 20:30 02/08/2002, James Young spake thusly:
>Just as long as one of those is mine, I'm happy.  But like everyone
>else I'm waiting for Rip to get me the info on how to PAY him, and
>I'll send him my snailmail addy when he does.

Hey, you'll get an amount as soon as I get one from
the bookstore.

rip



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 05 Aug 2002 16:13:19 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: Offer recap for Norte Americanos
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

As of reading all my email this AM, 24 ;->

rip

At 17:13 02/08/2002, Bob Montgomery spake thusly:
>Up to 21 now, I think <G>
>
>
>
>On Friday, August 2, 2002, at 11:33  AM, Richard Williamson wrote:
>
>>I'm currently down for about 16 books.  Which will make Ray's
>>pocketbook happy.
>>
>>rip



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Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 18:23:45 +0100
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Subject: Signing at Otakars Chelmsford
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 18:23:45 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: John <john@crydee.com>
Subject: Signing at Otakars Chelmsford
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If you plan to go to this signing , and want Magician, i suggest you 
order a copy first, the impression i got was they would not be getting 
many in, When i placed my order i ordered more than they originally had 
planned !

Also i checked with the contact and they are OK with people taking their 
own books for signing as long as they buy the latest there
-- 
John

john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.

Raymond E Feist Ring
http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm



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Date: Mon, 05 Aug 2002 13:26:17 -0400
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Feistfans,
I just wanted to say a quick hello and say that I had no idea that there 
was a such a following of REF.  I started to read his books when I was 13 
and have been a huge fan ever since.  I stumbled upon this site when 
looking for the publication date of Krondor: The Crawler which I did not 
find.  I hope everyone is enjoying their summer and I hope you're all 
reading up a storm!

Jessica



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 18:24:51 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: John <john@crydee.com>
Subject: Re: getting a signed book
User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-U (<x5sqXV$6+zj$GDJXMwYgRCjMWO>)
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Justin <justin.carew@ntlworld.com> writes
>I'm not sure if this has been asked before, but is there any way I
>could get a signed copy of Magician 20th or Talon or both. I can't get
>to any of the signings. BTW I live in Scotland, that might help... or
>not.
>
>
>Justin
>
>
Phone one of the stores with credit card in hand, most will post for you
-- 
John

john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.

Raymond E Feist Ring
http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm



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From: Al Burrell <al.burl@tiscali.co.uk>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 05 Aug 2002 18:49:58 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: Al Burrell <al.burl@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Signing at Otakars Chelmsford
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Thanks John. That's the one I'm going to. I'll get Talon there.

Al

At 18:23 05/08/2002 +0100, John wrote:
>If you plan to go to this signing , and want Magician, i suggest you order 
>a copy first, the impression i got was they would not be getting many in, 
>When i placed my order i ordered more than they originally had planned !
>
>Also i checked with the contact and they are OK with people taking their 
>own books for signing as long as they buy the latest there
>--
>John
>
>john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
>http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.
>
>Raymond E Feist Ring
>http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm



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Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 19:10:42 +0100
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From: John <john@crydee.com>
Subject: Re: Offer recap for Norte Americanos
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020802162922.00a76738@mail.swindon.wrsec.fr>
 <D2D43DC2-A632-11D6-9F39-0050E440127C@mrpllc.com>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 19:10:42 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: John <john@crydee.com>
Subject: Re: Offer recap for Norte Americanos
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Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com> writes
>As of reading all my email this AM, 24 ;->
>
>rip
>
>At 17:13 02/08/2002, Bob Montgomery spake thusly:
>>Up to 21 now, I think <G>
>>
>>
>>
>>On Friday, August 2, 2002, at 11:33  AM, Richard Williamson wrote:
>>
>>>I'm currently down for about 16 books.  Which will make Ray's
>>>pocketbook happy.
>>>
>>>rip
>
>
But how many are for yourself<G>
Have an order in for 10 copies myself. Make great presents
-- 
John

john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.

Raymond E Feist Ring
http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 15:53:57 -0400
Subject: Re: Offer recap for Norte Americanos
From: Bob Montgomery <bmontgomery@mrpllc.com>
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Darn right! Ordered 5 myself, with three as gifts <G>



On Monday, August 5, 2002, at 02:10  PM, John wrote:

> But how many are for yourself<G>
> Have an order in for 10 copies myself. Make great presents
> -- John
>



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From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: OT: depth of books WAS  I'm one of the 10!!
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Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2002 08:30:33 +1000 (GMT+1000)
From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: OT: depth of books WAS  I'm one of the 10!!
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

> >> I agree. I once read a comic book version of Lord of the Rings. Any
> >> book that can be simplified that much can't have a very deep running plot
>
> > I really don't think that reading a comic book version of Lord of
> > Rings can make you eligible to comment on the books.
> >
> > I've read LoTR, and I can tell you, they're 'deep' in terms of
> > content.
> How so?

Well, for starters the depth of the history and the language tolkien
developed can be used as examples. Therefore, in loose terms (on content),
I would consider the books to be deep.

Initially, I'm not sure what you meant by saying 'they weren't deep'. Do
you mean, in terms of say philosophy? moral values? ethics? etc etc

> >>>Anyway Tolkien's strength is not really in the plotting (which is
> >>>amittedly not very complex) but rather in the worldbuilding which is
> >>>about as good as it gets.
> <snip>
> Which is what I said initially.. the great thing about these books is the world,
> not really the story.

Its a matter of opinion. Some people, I'm sure, would consider the story
to be great. Personally, I don't think the story is great, but not bad
either. I was probably a little bored by it, but considering I only fairly
recently read Tolkien (and have be tainted by a lot of other fantasy) this
may explain it. If I started out with Tolkien, I might have had a
different opinion. (I initially started out with C.S. Lewis's "Narnia"
books, and they have always been a fave).


Thanks
Darragh
================================================
msn: iamtheporkfireman@hotmail.com

"Believe or die - thank you O lord for all those
 options" - Bill Hicks.
================================================



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> Feistfans,
> I just wanted to say a quick hello and say that I had no idea that there
> was a such a following of REF.  I started to read his books when I was 13
> and have been a huge fan ever since.  I stumbled upon this site when
> looking for the publication date of Krondor: The Crawler which I did not
> find.  I hope everyone is enjoying their summer and I hope you're all
> reading up a storm!
> Jessica

Welcome to the list, Jessica.
If you didn't know already (sorry if this sounds a but presumptions), just
going to head off the first question you might have: yes, the Raymond E
Feist who posts here is the real Raymond E Feist :)

As for Krondor: the Crawler, as far as I know, there is no publication
date (it hasn't been written...yet). But a new book, Talon of the
Silverhawk, is being published in September (UK/Australia anyway).

Ohh and by the way, might be an idea to check out the feistfans FAQ
(www.psihawk.com/Feist) to get some answers to questions "straight from
the horse's mouth".

Have a good one.


Thanks
Darragh
================================================
msn: iamtheporkfireman@hotmail.com

"Believe or die - thank you O lord for all those
 options" - Bill Hicks.
================================================



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From: "Jason Martin" <res0b95g@verizon.net>
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Subject: Quick question for anniv. of Magician
Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 16:25:44 -0700
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Jason Martin" <res0b95g@verizon.net>
To: "Feistfans" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Quick question for anniv. of Magician
Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 16:25:44 -0700
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I'm sure this has been asked before, but is the anniv. edtion of
Magician going to be the APE edition?  Or will it be the original one?
Either is fine with me, but if I had a choice I would hope it is the
APE edition seeing how that one seems so more complete after reading
it..

Thanks,

Jason

"He who can destroy a thing, controls a thing."
                 Muad'Dib 

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From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
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Cameron Duncan wrote:
> 
> A day early!

It's rather amazing how many places have been reported here in the
States that have had the FotR DVD available a few days early for rent
and such.

Especially since it is pretty standard policy to NOT do this.

Then again, money talks.

Craig J. Ries



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Subject: Re: Quick question for anniv. of Magician
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Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 19:17:28 -0700
Subject: Re: Quick question for anniv. of Magician
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Monday, August 5, 2002, at 04:25 PM, Jason Martin wrote:

> I'm sure this has been asked before, but is the anniv. edtion of 
> Magician going to be the APE edition?  Or will it be the original one?  
> Either is fine with me, but if I had a choice I would hope it is the 
> APE edition seeing how that one seems so more complete after reading 
> it..
>

The Author's Preferred Edition.  Why would I go back to one I didn't 
prefer? <g>

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.

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Date: Tue, 06 Aug 2002 01:08:54 -0400
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darragh,
thanks a lot.  i've started to look at the FAQs, but the list is a bit 
lengthy.  every day i'm reading a bit more.  i find it's really answering a 
lot of questions i had been wondering about.  thanks for the help!

jess

--On Tuesday, August 06, 2002 8:35 AM +1000 Darragh Murray 
<s356179@student.uq.edu.au> wrote:

> > Feistfans,
> > I just wanted to say a quick hello and say that I had no idea that there
> > was a such a following of REF.  I started to read his books when I was
> > 13 and have been a huge fan ever since.  I stumbled upon this site when
> > looking for the publication date of Krondor: The Crawler which I did not
> > find.  I hope everyone is enjoying their summer and I hope you're all
> > reading up a storm!
> > Jessica
>
> Welcome to the list, Jessica.
> If you didn't know already (sorry if this sounds a but presumptions), just
> going to head off the first question you might have: yes, the Raymond E
> Feist who posts here is the real Raymond E Feist :)
>
> As for Krondor: the Crawler, as far as I know, there is no publication
> date (it hasn't been written...yet). But a new book, Talon of the
> Silverhawk, is being published in September (UK/Australia anyway).
>
> Ohh and by the way, might be an idea to check out the feistfans FAQ
> (www.psihawk.com/Feist) to get some answers to questions "straight from
> the horse's mouth".
>
> Have a good one.
>
>
> Thanks
> Darragh
> ================================================
> msn: iamtheporkfireman@hotmail.com
>
> "Believe or die - thank you O lord for all those
>  options" - Bill Hicks.
> ================================================





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From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
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No problem:P

btw, stupid me mispelled presumptuous:)

> darragh,
> thanks a lot.  i've started to look at the FAQs, but the list is a bit
> lengthy.  every day i'm reading a bit more.  i find it's really answering a
> lot of questions i had been wondering about.  thanks for the help!
>
> jess
>
> --On Tuesday, August 06, 2002 8:35 AM +1000 Darragh Murray
> <s356179@student.uq.edu.au> wrote:
>
> > > Feistfans,
> > > I just wanted to say a quick hello and say that I had no idea that there
> > > was a such a following of REF.  I started to read his books when I was
> > > 13 and have been a huge fan ever since.  I stumbled upon this site when
> > > looking for the publication date of Krondor: The Crawler which I did not
> > > find.  I hope everyone is enjoying their summer and I hope you're all
> > > reading up a storm!
> > > Jessica
> >
> > Welcome to the list, Jessica.
> > If you didn't know already (sorry if this sounds a but presumptions), just
> > going to head off the first question you might have: yes, the Raymond E
> > Feist who posts here is the real Raymond E Feist :)
> >
> > As for Krondor: the Crawler, as far as I know, there is no publication
> > date (it hasn't been written...yet). But a new book, Talon of the
> > Silverhawk, is being published in September (UK/Australia anyway).
> >
> > Ohh and by the way, might be an idea to check out the feistfans FAQ
> > (www.psihawk.com/Feist) to get some answers to questions "straight from
> > the horse's mouth".
> >
> > Have a good one.
> >
> >
> > Thanks
> > Darragh
> > ================================================
> > msn: iamtheporkfireman@hotmail.com
> >
> > "Believe or die - thank you O lord for all those
> >  options" - Bill Hicks.
> > ================================================
>
>
>
>

Thanks
Darragh
================================================
msn: iamtheporkfireman@hotmail.com

"Believe or die - thank you O lord for all those
 options" - Bill Hicks.
================================================



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Hi,

I haven't posted here for a few years.  Not since REF's last tour to NZ.
I've been off the list for a couple of years and just returned lately to
lurk again.

I ordered my copy of the 20th anniv. Magician at Dymocks in Auckland today.
I was told that Dymocks only ordered 2 copies of the book for that store and
the release date was early September.

As a matter of interest, how many copies of 20th anniv. Magician is being
printed?

Any idea on how many will be available in NZ?

Regards,

MS


On Monday, August 5, 2002, at 04:25 PM, Jason Martin wrote:

>> I'm sure this has been asked before, but is the anniv. edtion of 
>> Magician going to be the APE edition?  Or will it be the original one?  
>> Either is fine with me, but if I had a choice I would hope it is the 
> >APE edition seeing how that one seems so more complete after reading 
>> it..
>

>The Author's Preferred Edition.  Why would I go back to >one I didn't 
>prefer? <g>
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be >explained away by
stupidity.



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Subject: Re: OT: depth of books WAS  I'm one of the 10!!
Message-ID: <1028627082.3d4f9a8a7a3f2@epost.start.no>
Date: Tue, 06 Aug 2002 11:44:42 +0200 (CEST)
From: trym asserson <teeba@start.no>
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*** EOOH ***
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: OT: depth of books WAS  I'm one of the 10!!
Date: Tue, 06 Aug 2002 11:44:42 +0200 (CEST)
From: trym asserson <teeba@start.no>
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Quoting Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>:
> > > I've read LoTR, and I can tell you, they're 'deep' in terms of
> > > content.
> > How so?
> 
> Well, for starters the depth of the history and the language tolkien
> developed can be used as examples. Therefore, in loose terms (on
> content), I would consider the books to be deep.
> 
> Initially, I'm not sure what you meant by saying 'they weren't deep'.
> Do you mean, in terms of say philosophy? moral values? ethics? etc etc

No, I was merely looking to apparent intricate plots. Not necessarily what you
suggest like philosophical, ethical values etc, merely the superficial 'deep' of
how the storyline evolves. As for depth of history and languages of Middle
Earth, I'd put that under the inspirational world development, but it's really
beside the point to do so when we both agree on the good points. :)

>>>>>Anyway Tolkien's strength is not really in the plotting (which is
>>>>>amittedly not very complex) but rather in the worldbuilding which is
>>>>>about as good as it gets.
>> <snip>
>> Which is what I said initially.. the great thing about these books is
>> the world, not really the story.
> 
> Its a matter of opinion. Some people, I'm sure, would consider the
> story to be great. Personally, I don't think the story is great, but not bad
> either. I was probably a little bored by it, but considering I only
> fairly recently read Tolkien (and have be tainted by a lot of other fantasy)
> this may explain it. If I started out with Tolkien, I might have had a
> different opinion. (I initially started out with C.S. Lewis's "Narnia"
> books, and they have always been a fave).

True indeed, it's just my feeling of the books. As for taking the first book
close to heart, that's exactly why I brought this up initially. Tolkien was the
first fantasy author I picked up, working my way through The Hobbit then taking
unreasonably long to read through Lord Of The Rings because that long trek in
Return Of The King very nearly wore me out. But in retrospect, after all the
fantasy novels I've read to date, I find that LoTR just didn't excite me to the
extent that current novels do. Maybe I've grown older but that should mean more
difficult to excite with stories of swords & sorcery, right? Maybe it's just the
story of LoTR. Again, it's all a matter of opinion.

Thanks,

Trym

------------------------------------------------------------
Få din egen @start.no-adresse gratis på http://www.start.no/



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Subject: Offer closed! (Was: Norte Americanos)
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Date: Tue, 06 Aug 2002 11:22:04 +0100
To: feistfans-l@cornell.edu
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Offer closed! (Was: Norte Americanos)
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Hi!

I've reached the limit of the number of books that I 
can conceivably carry across, consequently I've closed
the offer for me getting you your books signed.

If you've missed out, sorry!
If you've already contacted me, saying you needed to
negotiate it a bit with your wives, (plural "you've
... you" ;->), you are still ok.  No New Orders, Sorry!

And Ray, the count is 30.  I and Mike Gibson will be
at the Milton Keynes signing.  I need his wheels to 
carry the load ;->.  That brings it up to about 45
when you add in mine.  15 trips through the line ...

Regards,
Richard



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Subject: Re: getting a signed book
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2002 11:07:24 +0100
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Justin" <justin.carew@ntlworld.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: getting a signed book
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2002 11:07:24 +0100
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>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "John" <john@crydee.com>
>To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
>Sent: Monday, August 05, 2002 6:24 PM
>Subject: Re: getting a signed book
>
>
>Justin <justin.carew@ntlworld.com> writes
>>I'm not sure if this has been asked before, but is there any way I
>>could get a signed copy of Magician 20th or Talon or both. I can't get
>>to any of the signings. BTW I live in Scotland, that might help... or
>>not.
>>
>>
>>Justin
>>
>>
>Phone one of the stores with credit card in hand, most will post for
>you
>--
>John
>
>john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
>http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.
>
>Raymond E Feist Ring
>http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm
>


So they can get it signed?

Justin



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From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: OT: novel writing WAS depth of books
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Date: Tue, 06 Aug 2002 12:29:06 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: OT: novel writing WAS depth of books
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Not really paying attention to this thread, but at some time in the
distant past, someone said:
>>>>>>Anyway Tolkien's strength is not really in the plotting (which is
>>>>>>amittedly not very complex) but rather in the worldbuilding which is
>>>>>>about as good as it gets.

Which brings up the "MICE" theory of writing.

M - Milieu 
I - Idea
C - Character
E - Events

Examples of Milieu are Tolkiens world-building.  It is the location
in all its inestimable glory which drives the story.

Examples of Idea are pure plot driven.  Most detective novels are
'Idea' plots, because the crime that is being detectived ... um ...
is the idea that drives the story.  Without the crime, no story.

Character is (IMHO, YMMV) Ray's books.  Character driven from start 
to finish.  I don't care what Jimmy is up to, so long as we get to
see Jimmy evolve from ragamuffin to Duke.  Or vice versa depending 
on how you treat those labels.  So, too, are the Harrington books 
by David Weber. (Read further before exploding on me from full 
broadsides, please!)

Event books are characters being dragged from one event to another.
Call them "serial idea" novels.

Now...
Most novels include to some extent each of the above.  If you try
to tell me that Midkemia doesn't matter in books about the Rift
Wars, I'll tell you that you are crazy.  That saves you from having
to tell me that I did so above, when calling Ray's books character
driven.  

The Rift Wars are about a Mad God (Idea) trying to return to the 
Midkemian universe (Milieu) through the use of Proxies (who
use Rifts) (Events), and is opposed by a hardy band of individuals 
(Character).  But it is the /characters/ that the reader is (from 
where I'm sitting.  Ray?) supposed to worry about.

Couple the above with Ray's "An Act, A Habit and a Whim define a 
character" (paraphrasing there), and You Too Can Write a Novel 
in Your Spare Time!!! (I know! I did it, and you can too!!!  Send
no money now!)

Discussion?

rip



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At 11:07 06/08/2002, Justin spake thusly:
>> Phone one of the stores with credit card in hand, most will post for
>> you
>
>So they can get it signed?

Don't try to get fancy, mind.  Just say "I would like to buy a signed
edition of Ray Feist's 20th Anniversery Magician".  Make sure you call
one of the stores that he is visiting though!

Ray usually signs a bunch of copies with just his sig in the stores,
so they can put a "Signed by the Author!" sticker on them.  They'll
probably be happy to ship you one of those.

rip
-- 
Sorry, I'm just helping the North Americans out.  Locals can do their
own work.



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*** EOOH ***
From: "Chris Smith" <cjs94@zepler.org.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2002 14:17:25 +0100
Subject: Re: Quick question for anniv. of Magician
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On 5 Aug 2002 at 19:17, Raymond Feist wrote:

> 
> On Monday, August 5, 2002, at 04:25 PM, Jason Martin wrote:
> 
> > I'm sure this has been asked before, but is the anniv. edtion of 
> > Magician going to be the APE edition?  Or will it be the original one?  
> > Either is fine with me, but if I had a choice I would hope it is the 
> > APE edition seeing how that one seems so more complete after reading 
> > it..
> >
> 
> The Author's Preferred Edition.  Why would I go back to one I didn't 
> prefer? <g>

So you can later release a Special Anniversary Edition, which, of
course, John & Co. would be obliged to buy. :-)

Chris
-- 
Chris Smith <cjs94@zepler.org.uk>



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From: "Paddyjack [ ]" <erykel@lycos.com>
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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Date: Tue, 06 Aug 2002 09:39:39 -0400
From: "Paddyjack [ ]" <erykel@lycos.com>
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>But in retrospect, after all the
>fantasy novels I've read to date, I find that LoTR just didn't excite me to the
>extent that current novels do. Maybe I've grown older but that should mean more
>difficult to excite with stories of swords & sorcery, right? Maybe it's just the
>story of LoTR. Again, it's all a matter of opinion.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Trym
>


I think the writing style of before may turn you down today. Myself I
read LotR 3 times in the early 90s, and liked it a lot each time, but
now, even though I still like the world and the story I find it hard
to keep my concentration through all the long and slow description.

Paddyjack


__________________________________________________________
Win a First Class Trip to Hawaii to Vacation Elvis Style!
http://r.lycos.com/r/sagel_mail/http://www.elvis.lycos.com/sweepstakes



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From: "Cameron Duncan" <cduncan@atinera.com.au>
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Subject: RE: Quick question for anniv. of Magician
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Cameron Duncan" <cduncan@atinera.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Quick question for anniv. of Magician
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 08:02:47 +1000
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> On 5 Aug 2002 at 19:17, Raymond Feist wrote:
>
> >
> > On Monday, August 5, 2002, at 04:25 PM, Jason Martin wrote:
> >
> > > I'm sure this has been asked before, but is the anniv. edtion of
> > > Magician going to be the APE edition?  Or will it be the
> original one? 
> > > Either is fine with me, but if I had a choice I would hope it is the
> > > APE edition seeing how that one seems so more complete after reading
> > > it..
> > >
> >
> > The Author's Preferred Edition.  Why would I go back to one I didn't
> > prefer? <g>
>
> So you can later release a Special Anniversary Edition, which, of
> course, John & Co. would be obliged to buy. :-)
>
> Chris
> --
> Chris Smith <cjs94@zepler.org.uk>
>
Well, the movie industry seems to get away doing it with DVD's.  <g>
And yes, I'd buy one.

Cameron



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From: Jason Mulligan <manwe@internode.on.net>
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On Tue, 06 Aug 2002 09:39:39 -0400, Paddyjack [ ] wrote:
>
> But in retrospect, after all the
>>fantasy novels I've read to date, I find that LoTR just didn't excite me to the
>>extent that current novels do. Maybe I've grown older but that should mean more
>>difficult to excite with stories of swords & sorcery, right? Maybe it's just the
>>story of LoTR. Again, it's all a matter of opinion.
>>
>>Thanks,
>>
>>Trym
>>
>
>
>I think the writing style of before may turn you down today. Myself I read 
>LotR 3 times in the early 90s, and liked it a lot each time, but now, even 
>though I still like the world and the story I find it hard to keep my 
>concentration through all the long and slow description.

Funny you should mention that. The writing style of Tolkien is one of the 
things I love about it. Thats probably why alot of Modern writers style of 
writing does do much for me at all - alot of it seems rather bland in 
comparison.




--
 What if the Hokey Pokey *IS* what it's all about?



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Subject: Magician Cover
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Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2002 08:30:13 +0200
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: Kenneth Jones <killkenny@thos.co.za>
Subject: Magician Cover
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Hi everyone.

Just for those of us who will be buying the new Anniversary Deluxe Ed of 
Magician.
Amazon.co.uk has posted to new cover art on their website:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0007134118/ref=pd_ecc_rvi_1/202-3162737-7007049

Enjoy...

Regards,
Kenneth Jones

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*** EOOH ***
From: "Matt & Diane Maguire" <mdmaguire@att.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Magician Cover
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 15:32:51 -0500
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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I'm curious.  What do you (the list) think the picture represents?

--Matt Maguire
>  -----Original Message-----
>  From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Kenneth Jones
>  Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 1:30 AM
>  To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>  Subject: Magician Cover
>
>
>  Hi everyone.
>
>  Just for those of us who will be buying the new Anniversary Deluxe Ed of
>Magician.
>  Amazon.co.uk has posted to new cover art on their website:
>
>
>http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0007134118/ref=pd_ecc_rvi_1/202-316
>2737-7007049
>
>  Enjoy...
>
>  Regards,
>  Kenneth Jones

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Subject: Re: Quick question for anniv. of Magician
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> The Author's Preferred Edition.  Why would I go back to one I didn't 
> prefer? <g>
> 
> Best, R.E.F.

Between, is it you who chose to dub this edition the A.P.E or was it
your editor/publisher ? Sound like a "Director's Cut" :)

Syl



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From: Chris Vance <pikachu_chris@yahoo.com.sg>
Subject: Re: OT: depth of books WAS  I'm one of the 10!!
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 16:57:10 -0700 (PDT)
From: Chris Vance <pikachu_chris@yahoo.com.sg>
Subject: Re: OT: depth of books WAS  I'm one of the 10!!
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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I love the writing style of Tolkein too. But there
were times in his book that you just felt that he was
going a bit to slow. Probably too hooked on fast paced
action books. 

--- Jason Mulligan <manwe@internode.on.net> wrote:
> On Tue, 06 Aug 2002 09:39:39 -0400, Paddyjack [ ]
> wrote:
> >
> > But in retrospect, after all the
> >>fantasy novels I've read to date, I find that LoTR
> just didn't excite me to 
> the
> >>extent that current novels do. Maybe I've grown
> older but that should mean 
> more
> >>difficult to excite with stories of swords &
> sorcery, right? Maybe it's just 
> the
> >>story of LoTR. Again, it's all a matter of
> opinion.
> >>
> >>Thanks,
> >>
> >>Trym
> >>
> >
> >
> >I think the writing style of before may turn you
> down today. Myself I read 
> >LotR 3 times in the early 90s, and liked it a lot
> each time, but now, even 
> >though I still like the world and the story I find
> it hard to keep my 
> >concentration through all the long and slow
> description.
> 
> Funny you should mention that. The writing style of
> Tolkien is one of the 
> things I love about it. Thats probably why alot of
> Modern writers style of 
> writing does do much for me at all - alot of it
> seems rather bland in 
> comparison.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --
>  What if the Hokey Pokey *IS* what it's all about?
> 


=====
The Brainless

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better
http://health.yahoo.com



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Chris Vance wrote:
> I love the writing style of Tolkein too. But there
> were times in his book that you just felt that he was
                               ^^^

> going a bit to slow. Probably too hooked on fast paced
> action books. 

Change the indicated word to "I" and you may have a point.  I never 
found it to be true for myself, though.

cd



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From: JEEPMONSTER69@aol.com
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 20:55:46 EDT
Subject: Re: Magician Cover
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In a message dated 8/7/2002 4:59:50 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
mdmaguire@att.net writes:


> I'm curious.  What do you (the list) think the picture represents?
>  
> --Matt Maguire
> 

That's a good question...I think (I last saw it a few hours ago) that it's 
just a symbol for a magician that the publishers chose.  Of course, Im just a 
19 year old dolt, so what should I know? <g>

                                                       Peace, 
                                                             Matt

"Lets Roll."- Todd Beamer
USA, Muthafacko!

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JEEPMONSTER69@aol.com wrote:
> In a message dated 8/7/2002 4:59:50 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
> mdmaguire@att.net writes:
> 
>> I'm curious.  What do you (the list) think the picture represents?
>>
>> --Matt Maguire
> 
> That's a good question...I think (I last saw it a few hours ago) that 
> it's just a symbol for a magician that the publishers chose.  Of course, 
> Im just a 19 year old dolt, so what should I know? <g>

Personally, I think it's a ... doodle.

cd
-- 
Death to all Absolutists!



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Subject: Re: Quick question for anniv. of Magician
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Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 18:08:53 -0700
Subject: Re: Quick question for anniv. of Magician
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On Wednesday, August 7, 2002, at 04:12 PM, Sylvain Guehl wrote:

>> The Author's Preferred Edition.  Why would I go back to one I didn't
>> prefer? <g>
>>
>> Best, R.E.F.
>
> Between, is it you who chose to dub this edition the A.P.E or was it 
> your editor/publisher ? Sound like a "Director's Cut" :)
>
> Syl
>
>
>
>

I did.  It was Author's Preferred in the US, Revised Edition in the UK.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
From: weltj@umich.edu
Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2002 00:33:28 -0400
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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Magician Cover
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I'm inclined to agree with Matt on that.  I seems to just be an artistic 
representation of a Magician.  But then, like Matt again, I am also a 19 
year old dolt  :)

Jessica

-On Wednesday, August 07, 2002 8:55 PM +0000 JEEPMONSTER69@aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 8/7/2002 4:59:50 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> mdmaguire@att.net writes:
>
>
>
> I'm curious.  What do you (the list) think the picture represents?
>
> --Matt Maguire
>
>
>
> That's a good question...I think (I last saw it a few hours ago) that
> it's just a symbol for a magician that the publishers chose.  Of course,
> Im just a 19 year old dolt, so what should I know? <g>
>
>                                                       Peace,
>                                                             Matt
>
> "Lets Roll."- Todd Beamer
> USA, Muthafacko!
>



"In an infinite universe, all things are not only possible but, no matter
how improbable, certain to exist somewhere at some time." - REF



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References: <LPEDLKDHGJENHNPBCGNMIEHKCBAA.mdmaguire@att.net>
Subject: Re: Magician Cover
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Andrew Scott" <a.sc0tt@attbi.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Magician Cover
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 00:59:05 -0700
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> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Matt & Diane Maguire
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 1:32 PM
> Subject: RE: Magician Cover
>
> I'm curious.  What do you (the list) think the picture represents?
>
> --Matt Maguire

its a person with their hand out, palm facing up with what appears to be a
small point of light floating above it.

its easier to tell in the enlarged picture.
http://images-eu.amazon.com/images/P/0007134118.02.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

Andrew



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From: trym asserson <teeba@start.no>
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*** EOOH ***
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Subject: Re: Magician Cover
Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2002 10:44:04 +0200 (CEST)
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I see it as a young, black robed magician working a spell off the palm of his
hand. So the thoughts naturally go to a representation of Pug.

Nice cover art, clean, neat and stylish. :)

Trym

Quoting weltj@umich.edu:
> I'm inclined to agree with Matt on that.  I seems to just be an artistic
> 
> representation of a Magician.  But then, like Matt again, I am also a 19
> 
> year old dolt  :)
> 
> Jessica
> 
> -On Wednesday, August 07, 2002 8:55 PM +0000 JEEPMONSTER69@aol.com
> wrote:
> 
> > In a message dated 8/7/2002 4:59:50 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> > mdmaguire@att.net writes:
> >
> >
> >
> > I'm curious.  What do you (the list) think the picture represents?
> >
> > --Matt Maguire
> >
> >
> >
> > That's a good question...I think (I last saw it a few hours ago)
> that
> > it's just a symbol for a magician that the publishers chose.  Of
> course,
> > Im just a 19 year old dolt, so what should I know? <g>
> >
> >                                                       Peace,
> >                                                             Matt
> >
> > "Lets Roll."- Todd Beamer
> > USA, Muthafacko!
> >
> 
> 
> 
> "In an infinite universe, all things are not only possible but, no
> matter
> how improbable, certain to exist somewhere at some time." - REF
> 


------------------------------------------------------------
Få din egen @start.no-adresse gratis på http://www.start.no/



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To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
References: <2269624875.1028766808@[192.168.1.100]>
Subject: Re: Magician Cover
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Michael Connolly" <data3@dodo.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Magician Cover
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 22:53:04 +1000
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Hey,

We 19 year old dolts certainly seem to be in abundance here *grin* Any other
19 year old dolts around? Or are you goons or fools or something??

Michael

----- Original Message -----
From: <weltj@umich.edu>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Thursday, August 08, 2002 2:33 PM
Subject: Re: Magician Cover


> I'm inclined to agree with Matt on that.  I seems to just be an artistic
> representation of a Magician.  But then, like Matt again, I am also a 19
> year old dolt  :)
>
> Jessica
>



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From: "M Chaloner" <markchaloner@btinternet.com>
To: "feistfans-l" <feistfans-l@cornell.edu>
Subject: Release date 20th Ann Ed Amazon?
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 14:59:55 +0100
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*** EOOH ***
From: "M Chaloner" <markchaloner@btinternet.com>
To: "feistfans-l" <feistfans-l@cornell.edu>
Subject: Release date 20th Ann Ed Amazon?
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 14:59:55 +0100
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I'm going to Zimbabwe on the 12th September for 3 months and I'd like to
have a good book to read on the plane.
Does anyone know when the release date of 20th Ann Ed of Magician will
be on Amazon? Obviously I've read Magician dozens of times and this'll
be just one time more, but I've got a friend out there in Zimbabwe who
wants me to bring a book for her - and what better than Magician hey?
<grins>

Mark ;-)



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Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 07:51:20 -0700
Subject: Re: Release date 20th Ann Ed Amazon?
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 07:51:20 -0700
Subject: Re: Release date 20th Ann Ed Amazon?
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On Thursday, August 8, 2002, at 06:59 AM, M Chaloner wrote:

> I'm going to Zimbabwe on the 12th September for 3 months and I'd like to
> have a good book to read on the plane.
> Does anyone know when the release date of 20th Ann Ed of Magician will
> be on Amazon? Obviously I've read Magician dozens of times and this'll
> be just one time more, but I've got a friend out there in Zimbabwe who
> wants me to bring a book for her - and what better than Magician hey?
> <grins>
>
> Mark ;-)
>
>
>
>

I arrive in Holland on the 5th of September, and start the British tour 
on the 8th.  I should think they will have the books in the stores a few 
days in advance, so you should be in luck.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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From: "Matt & Diane Maguire" <mdmaguire@att.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Magician Cover
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 11:10:26 -0500
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Matt & Diane Maguire" <mdmaguire@att.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Magician Cover
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 11:10:26 -0500
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Andrew Scott
> Sent: Thursday, August 08, 2002 2:59 AM
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Subject: Re: Magician Cover
>
>
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Matt & Diane Maguire
> > To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> > Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 1:32 PM
> > Subject: RE: Magician Cover
> >
> > I'm curious.  What do you (the list) think the picture represents?
> >
> > --Matt Maguire
>
> its a person with their hand out, palm facing up with what appears to be a
> small point of light floating above it.
>
> its easier to tell in the enlarged picture.
> http://images-eu.amazon.com/images/P/0007134118.02.LZZZZZZZ.jpg
>
> Andrew
>

That's what you see, but what does it represent?  Also, if you look closely,
you
see what appears to be another figure within the first, another presence if
you will.
I may be reading too much into this, but the book is about two young boys,
not one.

--Matt Maguire



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Subject: Re: Magician Cover
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*** EOOH ***
From: "-maniax-" <maniax@firetrack.demon.co.uk>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Magician Cover
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 18:07:29 +0100
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> > >
> > > I'm curious.  What do you (the list) think the picture represents?
> > >
> > > --Matt Maguire
> >
> > its a person with their hand out, palm facing up with what appears to be a
> > small point of light floating above it.
> >
> > its easier to tell in the enlarged picture.
> > http://images-eu.amazon.com/images/P/0007134118.02.LZZZZZZZ.jpg
> >
> > Andrew
> >
>
> That's what you see, but what does it represent?  Also, if you look closely,
> you
> see what appears to be another figure within the first, another presence if
> you will.
> I may be reading too much into this, but the book is about two young boys,
> not one.
>
> --Matt Maguire
>

Is that a bird flying over the shoulder of the figure?

-maniax-



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From: "M Chaloner" <markchaloner@btinternet.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Can anyone from Chesire/Clwyd (UK) help? - [requires an off-list reply]
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 18:16:59 +0100
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*** EOOH ***
From: "M Chaloner" <markchaloner@btinternet.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Can anyone from Chesire/Clwyd (UK) help? - [requires an off-list reply]
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 18:16:59 +0100
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Is anyone on the list attending any of the below events from the
Cheshire/Clwyd area of the UK?



Monday 9 September
Lunch signing at        Hammicks        12.30-1.30pm
60-62 St Anns Road
Harrow
Contact:        Tony
Tel:            020 8863 4578

Evening event at        Borders 6.30pm
203-207 Oxford Street
London W1
Contact:        Simon
Chaired by:     Pat Cadigan
Tel:            020 7292 1650
In conversation with Miller Lau

Tuesday 10 September
Lunch signing at        Hammicks        12.30-1.30pm
14-16 Chelsea House
Queen Anne's Walk
Basingstoke
Contact:        Bob
Tel:            01256 460646

Wednesday 11 September
Evening event at        Ottakar's       6.30pm
72 Midsummer Place
Milton Keynes
Bucks
Contact:        Ben Donlan
Tel:            01908 395384



I'm leaving the UK on 12th September, but would appreciate travelling to
one of these events with someone from my area before I leave.
(Unfortunately I have epilepsy and don't drive, but...) if anyone is
going to be able to make it to any of the above, can you e-mail me
off-list and let's see if we can (hopefully) make some mutually
agreeable arrangements.


Mark ;-)



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*** EOOH ***
From: weltj@umich.edu
Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2002 13:31:40 -0400
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Magician Cover
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

It appears to be a bird yes...or maybe its Fantus...

Jessica

-On Thursday, August 08, 2002 6:07 PM +0100 -maniax- 
<maniax@firetrack.demon.co.uk> wrote:

> > > >
> > > > I'm curious.  What do you (the list) think the picture represents?
> > > >
> > > > --Matt Maguire
> > >
> > > its a person with their hand out, palm facing up with what appears to
> > > be
> a
> > > small point of light floating above it.
> > >
> > > its easier to tell in the enlarged picture.
> > > http://images-eu.amazon.com/images/P/0007134118.02.LZZZZZZZ.jpg
> > >
> > > Andrew
> > >
> >
> > That's what you see, but what does it represent?  Also, if you look
> closely,
> > you
> > see what appears to be another figure within the first, another presence
> if
> > you will.
> > I may be reading too much into this, but the book is about two young
> > boys, not one.
> >
> > --Matt Maguire
> >
>
> Is that a bird flying over the shoulder of the figure?
>
> -maniax-



"In an infinite universe, all things are not only possible but, no matter
how improbable, certain to exist somewhere at some time." - REF



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From: "Christopher Livingston" <Chrislivingston@btinternet.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Signing at Otakars Chelmsford
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 20:41:58 +0100
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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I'll be there too.

Chris Livingston

----- Original Message -----
From: "Al Burrell" <al.burl@tiscali.co.uk>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Monday, August 05, 2002 6:49 PM
Subject: Re: Signing at Otakars Chelmsford


> Thanks John. That's the one I'm going to. I'll get Talon there.
>
> Al
>
> At 18:23 05/08/2002 +0100, John wrote:
> >If you plan to go to this signing , and want Magician, i suggest you order
> >a copy first, the impression i got was they would not be getting many in,
> >When i placed my order i ordered more than they originally had planned !
> >
> >Also i checked with the contact and they are OK with people taking their
> >own books for signing as long as they buy the latest there
> >--
> >John
> >
> >john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
> >http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.
> >
> >Raymond E Feist Ring
> >http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm
>



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From: "John Crawley" <john_crawley1@hotmail.com>
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From: "John Crawley" <john_crawley1@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re: Signing at Otakars Chelmsford
Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2002 22:04:17 +0100
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>I'll be there too.
>
>Chris Livingston
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Al Burrell" <al.burl@tiscali.co.uk>
>To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
>Sent: Monday, August 05, 2002 6:49 PM
>Subject: Re: Signing at Otakars Chelmsford
>
>
> > Thanks John. That's the one I'm going to. I'll get Talon there.
> >
> > Al
> >
> > At 18:23 05/08/2002 +0100, John wrote:
> > >If you plan to go to this signing , and want Magician, i suggest you
>order
> > >a copy first, the impression i got was they would not be getting many 
>in,
> > >When i placed my order i ordered more than they originally had planned 
>!
> > >
> > >Also i checked with the contact and they are OK with people taking 
>their
> > >own books for signing as long as they buy the latest there
> > >--
> > >John

Do you think it would be advisable to order Talon befor this signing, or 
will it be possible to turn up on the day to but a copy?

Thanks a lot.

John



_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com



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From: Larry Siegel <larry@psihawk.com>
Subject: FAQ - PLEASE READ
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Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2002 17:41:36 -0400
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: Larry Siegel <larry@psihawk.com>
Subject: FAQ - PLEASE READ
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Greetings all...

Not sure if anyone noticed or not, but I haven't been active the past
few months.

Anyway the past few months have been difficult but things are looking up.

After being laid off, I am starting a new job, and am also going forward with
some free-lance Web work... which brings me to the following info :

I have moved the psihawk.com domain. and while the change should be seemless
and invisible... we all know how that works.

So if over the next few days the faq seems to have vanished or some links 
aren't working
Don't panic... I am well aware of it.

I am also looking to find out what happened to the volunteers I had a while 
ago to help update the
FAQ.. I never heard back from them....

Anyway.. I just wanted everyone to know what was going on.. and that I plan 
on picking up MiL soon.
Was kinda hard to order it with no job....

Anyway take care and please.. send any replies to this off-list to 
me  larry@psihawk.com

--
Larry (PsiHawk)
--
PsiHawk's Home Page
     http://www.psihawk.com
--
Raymond E Feist FAQ Page
     http://www.psihawk.com/feist



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Subject: Re: Magician Cover
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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*** EOOH ***
From: tim.plummer@ap.interfaceinc.com
Subject: Re: Magician Cover
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2002 08:33:21 +1000
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>It appears to be a bird yes...or maybe its Fantus...
>Jessica

Or perhaps it is an eagle, as in Ashen-Shugar Ruler of Eagle Reaches. I
think it represents both Pug/Milamber & Thomas/Ashen-Shugar.

Tim

>-On Thursday, August 08, 2002 6:07 PM +0100 -maniax-
><maniax@firetrack.demon.co.uk> wrote:

> > > >
> > > > I'm curious.  What do you (the list) think the picture represents?
> > > >
> > > > --Matt Maguire
> > >
> > > its a person with their hand out, palm facing up with what appears to
> > > be
> a
> > > small point of light floating above it.
> > >
> > > its easier to tell in the enlarged picture.
> > > http://images-eu.amazon.com/images/P/0007134118.02.LZZZZZZZ.jpg
> > >
> > > Andrew
> > >
> >
> > That's what you see, but what does it represent?  Also, if you look
> closely,
> > you
> > see what appears to be another figure within the first, another presence
> if
> > you will.
> > I may be reading too much into this, but the book is about two young
> > boys, not one.
> >
> > --Matt Maguire
> >
>
> Is that a bird flying over the shoulder of the figure?
>
> -maniax-




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From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Magician Cover
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2002 09:57:31 +1000 (GMT+1000)
From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Magician Cover
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


Or it could be just a logo, not a specific character or anything:P (like
how all the serpentwar, krondor and legacy books don't depicit a specific
scene, or character)


> >It appears to be a bird yes...or maybe its Fantus...
> >Jessica
>
> Or perhaps it is an eagle, as in Ashen-Shugar Ruler of Eagle Reaches. I
> think it represents both Pug/Milamber & Thomas/Ashen-Shugar.
>
> Tim
>
> >-On Thursday, August 08, 2002 6:07 PM +0100 -maniax-
> ><maniax@firetrack.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > > > >
> > > > > I'm curious.  What do you (the list) think the picture represents?
> > > > >
> > > > > --Matt Maguire
> > > >
> > > > its a person with their hand out, palm facing up with what appears to
> > > > be
> > a
> > > > small point of light floating above it.
> > > >
> > > > its easier to tell in the enlarged picture.
> > > > http://images-eu.amazon.com/images/P/0007134118.02.LZZZZZZZ.jpg
> > > >
> > > > Andrew
> > > >
> > >
> > > That's what you see, but what does it represent?  Also, if you look
> > closely,
> > > you
> > > see what appears to be another figure within the first, another
> presence
> > if
> > > you will.
> > > I may be reading too much into this, but the book is about two young
> > > boys, not one.
> > >
> > > --Matt Maguire
> > >
> >
> > Is that a bird flying over the shoulder of the figure?
> >
> > -maniax-
>
>
>

Thanks
Darragh
================================================
msn: iamtheporkfireman@hotmail.com

"Believe or die - thank you O lord for all those
 options" - Bill Hicks.
================================================



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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Andrew Scott wrote:
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: Matt & Diane Maguire
>>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>>Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 1:32 PM
>>Subject: RE: Magician Cover
>>
>>I'm curious.  What do you (the list) think the picture represents?
>>
>>--Matt Maguire
> 
> 
> its a person with their hand out, palm facing up with what appears to be a
> small point of light floating above it.
> 
> its easier to tell in the enlarged picture.
> http://images-eu.amazon.com/images/P/0007134118.02.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

Yes, it is.  Though I hate to say it, running a very high resolution 
monitor has its down side - it's WAY too small to see any detail at my 
normal screen resolution, where the logo is about an inch on a side. 
The enlargement, though (viewed at a lower resolution) does seem to be that.

Interesting.

cd
-- 
Death to all Absolutists!



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I think it represents the learning that will take place that enables Pug and 
Thomas to become elevated characters.  The best I can tell the figure looks 
as if they are deep in concentration, but then again can't get a real great 
view.  Just a thought though.
joe

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I don't think u should worry about the inactive part.U are not the only one 
who has been inactive the last month(summer vacation).

Anyway glad to have u back.Your FAQ site  rocks anyway.

_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com



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From: trym asserson <teeba@start.no>
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Two questions, a small one and one not so small.

Since I've not read anything other than the synopsis on Amazon about Talon of
the Silver Hawk, I've still not managed to work out whether this new novel is
set in Midkemia or Kelewan? Can someone indicate which? As I'm reading the
Empire trilogy at the moment, I'm wondering whether I should finish the third
Empire book before picking up Talon if it's set in Kelewan, or whether I can
jump on the new book as soon as it's published. :)

Second question, about writing collaborations. I'm just at a complete loss at
how such partnerships are realised. How was the Empire trilogy written, how do
two authors usually (if there's a standard way) enter a collaboration? A chapter
or a few each? Natural "segments" or parts of the storyline each? Take again the
Empire trilogy, I've read Wurts on her own, I've read Feist on his own, but
together the writing style has fused and I for one can't tell at all who's
writing what. Someone quench my curiosity before it kills the cat, please? :)

(applause for the Empire trilogy btw, just coming to end of 2nd book and I'm
regretting I never started it earlier)

All the best,

Trym

------------------------------------------------------------
Få din egen @start.no-adresse gratis på http://www.start.no/



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From: "Mark Tonkin" <shadowfire@chariot.net.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: TotSH & another question
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----- Original Message -----
From: "trym asserson" <teeba@start.no>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Friday, August 09, 2002 11:21 PM
Subject: TotSH & another question


> Two questions, a small one and one not so small.
>
> Since I've not read anything other than the synopsis on Amazon about Talon of
> the Silver Hawk, I've still not managed to work out whether this new novel is
> set in Midkemia or Kelewan? Can someone indicate which? As I'm reading the
> Empire trilogy at the moment, I'm wondering whether I should finish the third
> Empire book before picking up Talon if it's set in Kelewan, or whether I can
> jump on the new book as soon as it's published. :)
>

In Midkemia, about 20 years after shards if I remember correctly, so
finishing the third book of the Empire Trilogy is not necessary (a great
read though!).

> Second question, about writing collaborations. I'm just at a complete loss at
> how such partnerships are realised. How was the Empire trilogy written, how do
> two authors usually (if there's a standard way) enter a collaboration? A chapter
> or a few each? Natural "segments" or parts of the storyline each? Take again the
> Empire trilogy, I've read Wurts on her own, I've read Feist on his own, but
> together the writing style has fused and I for one can't tell at all who's
> writing what. Someone quench my curiosity before it kills the cat, please? :)
>
> (applause for the Empire trilogy btw, just coming to end of 2nd book and I'm
> regretting I never started it earlier)
>
> All the best,
>
> Trym
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> Få din egen @start.no-adresse gratis på http://www.start.no/
>

- MARK

========================================
Dilbert's rules of order #2:
"I love deadlines.  I especially like the wooshing
sound they make as they go flying by."



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Subject: Re: TotSH & another question
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From: "Henrik Grotle" <henrik@arasoft.no>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: TotSH & another question
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> Two questions, a small one and one not so small.
>
> Since I've not read anything other than the synopsis on Amazon about Talon of
> the Silver Hawk, I've still not managed to work out whether this new novel is
> set in Midkemia or Kelewan? Can someone indicate which? As I'm reading the
> Empire trilogy at the moment, I'm wondering whether I should finish the third
> Empire book before picking up Talon if it's set in Kelewan, or whether I can
> jump on the new book as soon as it's published. :)

AFAIK, Ray has said that there will be only three books set on Kelewan
namely the Empire Trilogy so I think it's safe to assume that ToSH will be
set on Midkemia.

> Second question, about writing collaborations. I'm just at a complete loss at
> how such partnerships are realised. How was the Empire trilogy written, how do
> two authors usually (if there's a standard way) enter a collaboration? A chapter
> or a few each? Natural "segments" or parts of the storyline each? Take again the
> Empire trilogy, I've read Wurts on her own, I've read Feist on his own, but
> together the writing style has fused and I for one can't tell at all who's
> writing what. Someone quench my curiosity before it kills the cat, please? :)
>
> (applause for the Empire trilogy btw, just coming to end of 2nd book and I'm
> regretting I never started it earlier)

I'm not a writer but to me it makes sense that the authors divide the scenes
between them ("one scene for you, one scene for me") based on what they're
best at (battle scenes to one, intricate politics plotting to the other).
While ofcourse getting input from the other writer as they progress with the
scene.

That's my two cents anyway,
--
Henrik



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Subject: Re: TotSH & another question
Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2002 16:49:34 +0100
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Iain." <iainp@btinternet.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: TotSH & another question
Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2002 16:49:34 +0100
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I get the feeling that the writing for the Empire books was done by Ray but
I think I can also "sense" Janny's influence in the flow and the way the
story is put together.


Iain.



----- Original Message -----
From: "Henrik Grotle" <henrik@arasoft.no>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Friday, August 09, 2002 4:01 PM
Subject: Re: TotSH & another question


> > Two questions, a small one and one not so small.
> >
> > Since I've not read anything other than the synopsis on Amazon about Talon
> of
> > the Silver Hawk, I've still not managed to work out whether this new novel
> is
> > set in Midkemia or Kelewan? Can someone indicate which? As I'm reading the
> > Empire trilogy at the moment, I'm wondering whether I should finish the
> third
> > Empire book before picking up Talon if it's set in Kelewan, or whether I
> can
> > jump on the new book as soon as it's published. :)
>
> AFAIK, Ray has said that there will be only three books set on Kelewan
> namely the Empire Trilogy so I think it's safe to assume that ToSH will be
> set on Midkemia.
>
> > Second question, about writing collaborations. I'm just at a complete loss
> at
> > how such partnerships are realised. How was the Empire trilogy written,
> how do
> > two authors usually (if there's a standard way) enter a collaboration? A
> chapter
> > or a few each? Natural "segments" or parts of the storyline each? Take
> again the
> > Empire trilogy, I've read Wurts on her own, I've read Feist on his own,
> but
> > together the writing style has fused and I for one can't tell at all who's
> > writing what. Someone quench my curiosity before it kills the cat, please?
> :)
> >
> > (applause for the Empire trilogy btw, just coming to end of 2nd book and
> I'm
> > regretting I never started it earlier)
>
> I'm not a writer but to me it makes sense that the authors divide the scenes
> between them ("one scene for you, one scene for me") based on what they're
> best at (battle scenes to one, intricate politics plotting to the other).
> While ofcourse getting input from the other writer as they progress with the
> scene.
>
> That's my two cents anyway,
> --
> Henrik
>



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Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2002 09:10:48 -0700
Subject: Re: TotSH & another question
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2002 09:10:48 -0700
Subject: Re: TotSH & another question
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On Friday, August 9, 2002, at 06:51 AM, trym asserson wrote:

> Two questions, a small one and one not so small.
>
> Since I've not read anything other than the synopsis on Amazon about 
> Talon of
> the Silver Hawk, I've still not managed to work out whether this new 
> novel is
> set in Midkemia or Kelewan? Can someone indicate which? As I'm reading 
> the
> Empire trilogy at the moment, I'm wondering whether I should finish the 
> third
> Empire book before picking up Talon if it's set in Kelewan, or whether 
> I can
> jump on the new book as soon as it's published. :)

MIdkemia.

>
> Second question, about writing collaborations. I'm just at a complete 
> loss at
> how such partnerships are realised. How was the Empire trilogy written, 
> how do
> two authors usually (if there's a standard way) enter a collaboration? 
> A chapter
> or a few each? Natural "segments" or parts of the storyline each? Take 
> again the
> Empire trilogy, I've read Wurts on her own, I've read Feist on his own, 
> but
> together the writing style has fused and I for one can't tell at all 
> who's
> writing what. Someone quench my curiosity before it kills the cat, 
> please? :)
>

Each collaboration works differently.  Janny and I "leapfrogged," i.e. 
I'd do a chapter up to a point, while she'd work on what came after that 
to another point, then we'd swap pages and rewrite one another.

With Bill it was pretty much he'd write first draft, I'd rewrite his 
stuff, he'd rewrite the rewrite, and I'd get a final bash before sending 
it in.

With Joel it was more he'd write first draft and then I'd rewrite it 
from front to back.  I think I added only one new scene in there, the 
short scene where Kethol punches out the sergeant in the snow.

I'm just now getting pages from Steve on Jimmy the Hand, so I don't have 
a sense of how it's going to go until I dig into them.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2002 12:46:28 -0400
Subject: Re: TotSH & another question
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2002 12:46:28 -0400
Subject: Re: TotSH & another question
From: Bob Montgomery <bmontgomery@mrpllc.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

So, with these new collaborations, do you feel like you're acting more 
as an editor than writer? From the work flow described below, it sounds 
a lot  like an editor's position, with some extra muscle built in... I 
think it's fascinating how the process works, especially as it changes 
with each new book, ever so slightly.


On Friday, August 9, 2002, at 12:10  PM, Raymond Feist wrote:

> With Bill it was pretty much he'd write first draft, I'd rewrite his 
> stuff, he'd rewrite the rewrite, and I'd get a final bash before 
> sending it in.
>
> With Joel it was more he'd write first draft and then I'd rewrite it 
> from front to back.  I think I added only one new scene in there, the 
> short scene where Kethol punches out the sergeant in the snow.
>
> I'm just now getting pages from Steve on Jimmy the Hand, so I don't 
> have a sense of how it's going to go until I dig into them.
>
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
>
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
> stupidity.
>
_________________________________________________
Bob M. Montgomery
Managing Editor
Moose River Publishing

publishers of...

Farming: The Journal of Northeast Agriculture
Forest Products Equipment: The Journal of the Entire Forest Products 
Industry
Superintendent: The Magazine for Golf Course Superintendents
Turf: The Magazine for Turf Care Professionals

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Subject: Re: TotSH & another question
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2002 10:20:23 -0700
Subject: Re: TotSH & another question
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
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On Friday, August 9, 2002, at 08:49 AM, Iain. wrote:

> I get the feeling that the writing for the Empire books was done by Ray 
> but
> I think I can also "sense" Janny's influence in the flow and the way the
> story is put together.
>

Time to recheck that "sense."  Every page, every word, was touched by 
both of us.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2002 10:22:37 -0700
Subject: Re: TotSH & another question
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2002 10:22:37 -0700
Subject: Re: TotSH & another question
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
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On Friday, August 9, 2002, at 09:46 AM, Bob Montgomery wrote:

> So, with these new collaborations, do you feel like you're acting more 
> as an editor than writer?

>  From the work flow described below, it sounds a lot  like an editor's 
> position, with some extra muscle built in... I think it's fascinating 
> how the process works, especially as it changes with each new book, 
> ever so slightly.
>
>
>

What part of "rewrite" did you miss?  "Writing is rewriting," is an old 
axiom of the profession.  An editor doesn't rewrite.  And editor reads, 
occasionally cleans up grammar or spelling, suggests changes that may be 
needed, or otherwise reflects back to the writer some sense of how the 
project is unfolding, but an editor never rewrites.

A writer rewrites.

Best, R.E.F.
---

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2002 14:47:55 -0400
Subject: Re: TotSH & another question
From: Bob Montgomery <bmontgomery@mrpllc.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Point taken.

I've never worked in the book industry, so I can only speak from my 
experiences. I know that, having spoken with editors at newspapers and 
consumer magazines over the years, the duties and responsibilities of an 
editor vary widely depending on field and audience, as well as a 
publishers' dictates. I had a friend who worked in the trenches as a 
copy editor in NYC for Random House, and her job was night and day 
different from mine. From how she described her experiences, it seemed 
to me that editing books was a completely different profession from 
editing magazines; apparently this is the case.

I know that in my position, in the technical trade magazine field, there 
are occasions where I rewrite entire features for style, tone and 
organization. By "rewrite" I mean reconstruct sentences and paragraphs, 
reorganize topic orders, amend language, shift the focus and more; mind 
you, it's not often that I have to go to such extremes with a feature, 
but it has and does happen. Some freelance writers are better than 
others, and not a few public relations agency writers are functionally 
illiterate. Although these days, I seem to spend more time coordinating 
editorial content and juggling departmental issues than actually editing 
the material, which is something I do miss.


On Friday, August 9, 2002, at 01:22  PM, Raymond Feist wrote:

> What part of "rewrite" did you miss?  "Writing is rewriting," is an old 
> axiom of the profession.  An editor doesn't rewrite.  And editor reads, 
> occasionally cleans up grammar or spelling, suggests changes that may 
> be needed, or otherwise reflects back to the writer some sense of how 
> the project is unfolding, but an editor never rewrites.
>
> A writer rewrites.
>
> Best, R.E.F.



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Subject: Re: TotSH & another question
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 09 Aug 2002 12:59:45 -0600
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: TotSH & another question
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Raymond Feist wrote:
> 
> Time to recheck that "sense."  Every page, every word, was touched by
> both of us.

My wife recently read a comment from another fantasy/sci-fi writer about
collaboration writing, something to the effect that it's "twice the work
for half the royalties."

But, I think we can assume by the fact that you have done more
collaborations after the Empire trilogy with Janny that it has well
worth the effort?

Craig J. Ries



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Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2002 12:59:28 -0700
Subject: Re: TotSH & another question
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On Friday, August 9, 2002, at 11:47 AM, Bob Montgomery wrote:

> Point taken.
>
> I've never worked in the book industry, so I can only speak from my 
> experiences. I know that, having spoken with editors at newspapers and 
> consumer magazines over the years, the duties and responsibilities of 
> an editor vary widely depending on field and audience, as well as a 
> publishers' dictates. I had a friend who worked in the trenches as a 
> copy editor in NYC for Random House, and her job was night and day 
> different from mine. From how she described her experiences, it seemed 
> to me that editing books was a completely different profession from 
> editing magazines; apparently this is the case.

Copy Editing is not editing.  A copy editor's job is to 1) find spelling 
errors and fix them 2) find grammar errors and suggest fixes for the 
writer to fix 3) find usage or other issues of style and give the writer 
suggestions 4) point out inconsistencies (i.e. the character had blue 
eyes in Chapter 1 and they were brown in Chapter 5) and ask the writer 
to make a choice 5) point out repetition, unintended rhymes, incorrect 
use of words, etc. that kludge style.  But except for spelling, the 
writer makes the fixes, not the copy editor.

Occasionally, if a book is a "crash," i.e. it's too close to publication 
for the manuscript to go back to the writer, or if a writer by choice 
doesn't want to deal with a copy editor's queries, then he/she just 
makes the changes.

But on my projects, I'm the only one who decides what gets changed.

BTW, a good copy editor is priceless and to be thanked big time for 
his/her good work.
>
> I know that in my position, in the technical trade magazine field, 
> there are occasions where I rewrite entire features for style, tone and 
> organization. By "rewrite" I mean reconstruct sentences and paragraphs, 
> reorganize topic orders, amend language, shift the focus and more; mind 
> you, it's not often that I have to go to such extremes with a feature, 
> but it has and does happen. Some freelance writers are better than 
> others, and not a few public relations agency writers are functionally 
> illiterate. Although these days, I seem to spend more time coordinating 
> editorial content and juggling departmental issues than actually 
> editing the material, which is something I do miss.

Non-fiction has completely different style issues than fiction.  "Style" 
in non-fiction means how the publication wants the text to reflect its 
approach to publishing.  In fiction, it's the writer's voice.  Big 
difference.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2002 13:00:42 -0700
Subject: Re: TotSH & another question
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
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On Friday, August 9, 2002, at 11:59 AM, Craig J. Ries wrote:

> Raymond Feist wrote:
>>
>> Time to recheck that "sense."  Every page, every word, was touched by
>> both of us.
>
> My wife recently read a comment from another fantasy/sci-fi writer about
> collaboration writing, something to the effect that it's "twice the work
> for half the royalties."

That sounds like something Larry Niven might say. <G>

>
> But, I think we can assume by the fact that you have done more
> collaborations after the Empire trilogy with Janny that it has well
> worth the effort?
>

Ya.  It can be fun.  Honored Enemy and Murder in LaMut had stuff in them 
I never would have imagined, and the voices are different than if I had 
worked alone.  I enjoy that a lot.

Best, R.E.F.
---

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2002 17:06:01 -0400
Subject: Re: TotSH & another question
From: Bob Montgomery <bmontgomery@mrpllc.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On Friday, August 9, 2002, at 03:59  PM, Raymond Feist wrote:

> Occasionally, if a book is a "crash," i.e. it's too close to 
> publication for the manuscript to go back to the writer, or if a writer 
> by choice doesn't want to deal with a copy editor's queries, then 
> he/she just makes the changes.

I've often wondered how deadline issues were handled in book publishing, 
since it really is a different world. In magazine publishing, deadline 
is everything because of exceedingly tight print schedules and multiple 
simultaneous projects (at least in our case). Have you have had a book 
that cut a deadline close enough to be called a "crash"? Are there many 
authors that cut it that close?

I can bet that the big publishing houses have tight print schedules of 
their own to deal with, but is there more flexibility involved, is that 
on an author by author basis (i.e., a new author doesn't have the same 
luxuries as an established author, who might be able to push a 
deadline), or are book publishing deadlines as inflexible as ours are?

Another question on this: I know you've spoken to having deadlines that 
you follow, but are there authors out there who don't have to work 
within established deadlines for projects? I always wondered if huge, 
mainstream authors had the luxury of simply submitting when something 
was finished, or if guys like Stephen King get the "deadline panic" like 
the rest of us, even though he's an established author.



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> Ya.  It can be fun.  Honored Enemy and Murder in LaMut had stuff in them 
> I never would have imagined, and the voices are different than if I had 
> worked alone.  I enjoy that a lot.
> 
> Best, R.E.F.

And so to my question : you're now co-writting stories quite short
compared to the empire series. Do you think you might want and
co-write a more consistent book (or a whole series) sometime later ?

Syl





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Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2002 17:13:22 -0700
Subject: Re: TotSH & another question
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2002 17:13:22 -0700
Subject: Re: TotSH & another question
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Friday, August 9, 2002, at 04:28 PM, Sylvain Guehl wrote:

>> Ya.  It can be fun.  Honored Enemy and Murder in LaMut had stuff in 
>> them
>> I never would have imagined, and the voices are different than if I had
>> worked alone.  I enjoy that a lot.
>>
>> Best, R.E.F.
>
> And so to my question : you're now co-writting stories quite short 
> compared to the empire series. Do you think you might want and co-write 
> a more consistent book (or a whole series) sometime later ?
>

I have no idea what you mean by a "more consistent" book.  As for a 
whole series, it would depend.  Joel and I are kicking around an idea 
for a sequel to Murder, and Bill and I talked about a book that's 
unrelated to HE.  So each project is what it is, without a lot of 
consideration for other factors.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2002 17:15:37 -0700
Subject: Re: TotSH & another question
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2002 17:15:37 -0700
Subject: Re: TotSH & another question
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Friday, August 9, 2002, at 02:06 PM, Bob Montgomery wrote:

>
> On Friday, August 9, 2002, at 03:59  PM, Raymond Feist wrote:
>
>> Occasionally, if a book is a "crash," i.e. it's too close to 
>> publication for the manuscript to go back to the writer, or if a 
>> writer by choice doesn't want to deal with a copy editor's queries, 
>> then he/she just makes the changes.
>
> I've often wondered how deadline issues were handled in book 
> publishing, since it really is a different world. In magazine 
> publishing, deadline is everything because of exceedingly tight print 
> schedules and multiple simultaneous projects (at least in our case). 
> Have you have had a book that cut a deadline close enough to be called 
> a "crash"? Are there many authors that cut it that close?

Yes. Many who are late and have publishing dates scrubbed.  The next 
Harry Potter book will be a year behind schedule, for example.

>
> I can bet that the big publishing houses have tight print schedules of 
> their own to deal with, but is there more flexibility involved, is that 
> on an author by author basis (i.e., a new author doesn't have the same 
> luxuries as an established author, who might be able to push a 
> deadline), or are book publishing deadlines as inflexible as ours are?

There is little flexibility; publisher don't own their own presses and 
press time is very valuable.  If you're book isn't on the press then off 
by such and such a date, the next date open might be months down the 
road.
>
> Another question on this: I know you've spoken to having deadlines that 
> you follow, but are there authors out there who don't have to work 
> within established deadlines for projects? I always wondered if huge, 
> mainstream authors had the luxury of simply submitting when something 
> was finished, or if guys like Stephen King get the "deadline panic" 
> like the rest of us, even though he's an established author.
>
>
>
>

I don't know about Steve.  Publishers like to know in advance when a 
book is coming in; it gives them much needed lead time for promotion and 
publicity.  Not having a contract is called doing a book "on spec," i.e. 
a speculative project.  Some authors do that, but most like to have the 
money in front, which means a deadline.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Subject: curiosity [spoiler for Krondor: Betrayal...sorta]
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*** EOOH ***
From: weltj@umich.edu
Date: Fri, 09 Aug 2002 21:42:14 -0400
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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: curiosity [spoiler for Krondor: Betrayal...sorta]
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I know that everyone on this list is pouring forth praise for REF's books, 
and I as well am full of that same praise.  It is because of my high 
expectations of Feist's writing that I was a bit disappointed in the end of 
Krondor: The Betrayal.  I thought the book itself was great, and I fell in 
love with Owyn's innocence and Gorath's transformation.  But I thought that 
Gorath's death was cut a bit short, I found myself reading the passage 
again to make sure that that was indeed what happened.  I was wondering if 
there was some reason that one of the major characters in the book was sort 
of brushed aside at the end.  I was also hoping to see more of Owyn, but 
I'm guessing that in the rest of the Riftwar Legacy will deal with that. 
Other than that, I love the Riftwar Legacy books so far.  Jimmy is by far 
one of my favorite characters...he reminds me of Pug as a boy.  I also love 
REF's references to his "past life" as a thief.  Keep it coming!

Jessica



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 12:12:07 +0800 (CST)
From: Chris Vance <pikachu_chris@yahoo.com.sg>
Subject: Exchange of Extra HC 1st Ed Books and Notes for Raymond 
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Dear All,

I'm trying to start off an exchange program for people
with extra hardcover copies. Please msg me off list if
interested. Thank You.

P.S

Raymond,

I was reading Magician again (6 times already) and
realized that you should probably hire a new copy
editor. Saw a few inconsistencies concerning Pug's
age. First he was 13 on Banapis, a few months later he
was 15 when Borric gave him his reward of title and
lands and 14 when calculating his age of Majority,
also for when he would receive income from his lands.
Or is it just me?

====The Brainless

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Win a DV camera, join our "30 Seconds of Fame" contest   
http://sg.movies.yahoo.com



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From: John <john@crydee.com>
Subject: Crydee.com undergoing updates-  your help needed
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From: John <john@crydee.com>
Subject: Crydee.com undergoing updates-  your help needed
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Well everyone. The lady friend is away for 2 weeks , so I get to play 
site update

Lots to do and here is your chances to get involved

First
Anyone wanting to update there image or info in the rogues Gallery or 
their associated details. Image can be a reasonable size
If you want to put any details about yourself above what is already 
shown, please send that too as I hope to add a link from the existing 
info. This info may be edited if needed, and may not be included
please email to details
crydeerogues@crydee.com

Second
The Members Listing will be updated. If you want adding or details 
changed. Sorry a lot of changes were lost in a computer crash last month
please send an email to
crydeemembers@crydee.com

Third
I plan on expanding the reviews section of the site. At present it only 
has a few reviews by myself. I will continue to generate reviews as I 
can for each title. Currently working on Talon. But I would be 
interested in reviews by anyone else, which will be added as a 
subsection. Length of review is not important, and credits will be 
given. I would also appreciate a rating for the title on a scale of 1 to 
10
please send email to
crydeereview@crydee.com

Fourth
The News section is woefully out of date. Anyone wanting to send in news 
to get it up to date please do so in the next week. I will try and 
update daily.
After that, I am looking for a couple or three people to assist in 
collecting news for the site., I should then be able to keep it up to 
date
please send email to
crydeenews@crydee.com

Fifth
The Publication section will undergo a revamp and update. I know a 
number of books are not listed. Cover scans of Non English books would 
be appreciated as would any other info from the book which I normally 
list
please send email to
crydeecovers@crydee.com

Sixth
Suggestions for additions or changes you might like to see. Fancy web 
design will be limited  due to issues of computability with the various 
browsers
please send email to
crydeesuggestions@crydee.com

Seventh
If anyone has pictures of Ray from various signing they would like to 
see displayed. I am expanding the section. Just send the picture in a 
reasonable size, but the file should be no bigger than 600kb. With an 
explanation of where and when
please send email to
crydeepicture@crydee.com

Eighth
Any images you have created relating to Rays world or characters and 
would like everyone to see I am happy to put in the art section. There 
are already some really nice images there
please send email to
crydeeart@crydee.com

Ninth
If you have anything Feist or Midkemia related that is not shown at 
Crydee a picture and detail would be of interest
please send email to
crydeeother@crydee.com

Tenth
I am considering offering Crydee email address on a yearly basis
If I go ahead there will be 2 options
The first and cheapest will be a mail redirection
The second will be a POP3 email box
This will all depend on interest/demand
Address will likely be in the format
firstname.secondname@crydee.com
if you are interested
please send email to
crydeeemail@crydee.com

Lastly
I still have a quantity of Profit and the Grey Assassin Left, but it is 
going down rapidly They are $26 each including shipping to most normal 
places on earth. Midkemia may be a bit extra
-- 
John

john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.

Raymond E Feist Ring
http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm



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From: Hakan ATAÇ <h_atac@yahoo.com>
To: "Feistfan" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Introduction to books..
Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 12:22:06 +0300
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*** EOOH ***
From: Hakan ATAÇ <h_atac@yahoo.com>
To: "Feistfan" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Introduction to books..
Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 12:22:06 +0300
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Could anyone please write an introduction to the books? I want to
translate it to Turkish and put it in a site. I tried to write it
myself, but i don't have the knack myself.

By the way the site is about Sci-Fi/Fantasy books. And when a new
book/series introduced it'll probably translated to our language by
Turkish publishers.

Hakan ATAÇ
h_atac@yahoodotcom

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*** EOOH ***
From: "Chris Smith" <cjs94@zepler.org.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On 9 Aug 2002 at 10:22, Raymond Feist wrote:

> What part of "rewrite" did you miss?  "Writing is rewriting," is an old 
> axiom of the profession.  An editor doesn't rewrite.  And editor reads, 
> occasionally cleans up grammar or spelling, suggests changes that may be 
> needed, or otherwise reflects back to the writer some sense of how the 
> project is unfolding, but an editor never rewrites.
> 
> A writer rewrites.

Can you clarify exactly what is involved in a rewrite?  Do you
literally retype every page?  What's the purpose?  Is there something
wrong with the existing script that you aim to fix?

It seems like a lot of effort to go to, and I don't quite understand
the benefit.

Chris
-- 
Chris Smith <cjs94@zepler.org.uk>



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> I have no idea what you mean by a "more consistent" book.  

Typical "french to english" mistake. Sorry. I meant "bigger",
"longer", something like this.

Syl



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From: Al Burrell <al.burl@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: Re: curiosity [spoiler for Krondor: Betrayal...sorta]
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 13:52:42 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: Al Burrell <al.burl@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: Re: curiosity [spoiler for Krondor: Betrayal...sorta]
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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You have to remember that the book is based on the computer game "Betrayal 
at Krondor."

Al

At 21:42 09/08/2002 -0400, weltj@umich.edu wrote:
>I know that everyone on this list is pouring forth praise for REF's books, 
>and I as well am full of that same praise.  It is because of my high 
>expectations of Feist's writing that I was a bit disappointed in the end 
>of Krondor: The Betrayal.  I thought the book itself was great, and I fell 
>in love with Owyn's innocence and Gorath's transformation.  But I thought 
>that Gorath's death was cut a bit short, I found myself reading the 
>passage again to make sure that that was indeed what happened.  I was 
>wondering if there was some reason that one of the major characters in the 
>book was sort of brushed aside at the end.  I was also hoping to see more 
>of Owyn, but I'm guessing that in the rest of the Riftwar Legacy will deal 
>with that. Other than that, I love the Riftwar Legacy books so far.  Jimmy 
>is by far one of my favorite characters...he reminds me of Pug as a 
>boy.  I also love REF's references to his "past life" as a thief.  Keep it 
>coming!
>
>Jessica



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Subject: Re: Exchange of Extra HC 1st Ed Books and Notes for Raymond 
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 06:34:55 -0700
Subject: Re: Exchange of Extra HC 1st Ed Books and Notes for Raymond 
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Friday, August 9, 2002, at 09:12 PM, Chris Vance wrote:

> Dear All,
>
> I'm trying to start off an exchange program for people
> with extra hardcover copies. Please msg me off list if
> interested. Thank You.
>
> P.S
>
> Raymond,
>
> I was reading Magician again (6 times already) and
> realized that you should probably hire a new copy
> editor. Saw a few inconsistencies concerning Pug's
> age. First he was 13 on Banapis, a few months later he
> was 15 when Borric gave him his reward of title and
> lands and 14 when calculating his age of Majority,
> also for when he would receive income from his lands.
> Or is it just me?
>

Higher a new copy editor?  How about that book was written 22 years ago 
and I have had many copy editors since then, or are you just trying to 
sound clever?

He was thirteen until Banapis and the Choosing.  On that day he turned 
fourteen.  Some time passed between becoming Kulgan's apprentice and 
rescuing Carline.  See the pattern?

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 06:37:14 -0700
Subject: Re: TotSH & another question
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Saturday, August 10, 2002, at 02:33 AM, Chris Smith wrote:

> On 9 Aug 2002 at 10:22, Raymond Feist wrote:
>
>> What part of "rewrite" did you miss?  "Writing is rewriting," is an old
>> axiom of the profession.  An editor doesn't rewrite.  And editor reads,
>> occasionally cleans up grammar or spelling, suggests changes that may 
>> be
>> needed, or otherwise reflects back to the writer some sense of how the
>> project is unfolding, but an editor never rewrites.
>>
>> A writer rewrites.
>
> Can you clarify exactly what is involved in a rewrite?  Do you 
> literally retype every page?  What's the purpose?  Is there something 
> wrong with the existing script that you
> aim to fix?
>
> It seems like a lot of effort to go to, and I don't quite understand 
> the benefit.
>

Then obviously, you've never been involved in a serious written project, 
or you have the happy knack of getting it perfect the first draft.

I could cite examples, but really, is it necessary?  You change what 
doesn't work, and sometimes your new material doesn't work and you 
change that.  You rewrite until you get the desired effect.

No, you don't retype every page.  That's why they invented word 
processors.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 06:38:06 -0700
Subject: Re: TotSH & another question
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
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On Saturday, August 10, 2002, at 03:49 AM, Sylvain Guehl wrote:

>> I have no idea what you mean by a "more consistent" book.
>
> Typical "french to english" mistake. Sorry. I meant "bigger", "longer", 
> something like this.
>
> Syl
>
>
>
>

A book is as long as it is.  Rage was longer than any other book in the 
Serpentwar, for example, because it needed to be.  Rise was relatively 
short, because that's how much I needed to tell the story.

I never have a page count in mind when I start.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 14:42:45 +0100
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*ahem*

Who is this 'u' guy?

rip

At 11:18 09/08/2002, Philippe Nguyen Phung spake thusly:
>I don't think u should worry about the inactive part.U are not the only one who has been inactive the last month(summer vacation).
>
>Anyway glad to have u back.Your FAQ site  rocks anyway.
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com



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*** EOOH ***
From: "M Chaloner" <markchaloner@btinternet.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: FAQ - PLEASE READ
Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 15:24:47 +0100
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>At 11:18 09/08/2002, Philippe Nguyen Phung spake thusly:
>>I don't think u should worry about the inactive part.U are not the only
>>one who has been inactive the last month(summer vacation).
>>
>>Anyway glad to have u back.Your FAQ site  rocks anyway.
>
>
>*ahem*
>
>Who is this 'u' guy?
>
>Rip
>


And why does the site rock? Is there something wrong with the stability?

Mark ;-)



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*** EOOH ***
From: "M Chaloner" <markchaloner@btinternet.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: When writing - was: ( TotSH & another question)
Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 15:23:19 +0100
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>A book is as long as it is.  Rage was longer than any other book in the 
>Serpentwar, for example, because it needed to be.  Rise was relatively 
>short, because that's how much I needed to tell the story.
>
>I never have a page count in mind when I start.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>

Could I ask you something?
When you're typing - how many words make up a page generally speaking?
I assume you use a word processor or a PC and then I guess you must
print it out at the end of the day, but how does the word count on a
printed page relate to the word count for a page in a book?
How do you know where you are?

Mark ;-)



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 08:05:03 -0700
Subject: Re: When writing - was: ( TotSH & another question)
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On Saturday, August 10, 2002, at 07:23 AM, M Chaloner wrote:

> A book is as long as it is.  Rage was longer than any other book in the
> Serpentwar, for example, because it needed to be.  Rise was relatively
> short, because that's how much I needed to tell the story.
>
> I never have a page count in mind when I start.
>
> Best, R.E.F.
>
>
> Could I ask you something?
> When you're typing - how many words make up a page generally speaking?
> I assume you use a word processor or a PC and then I guess you must
> print it out at the end of the day, but how does the word count on a
> printed page relate to the word count for a page in a book?
> How do you know where you are?
>

I don't print out.  I e-mail files to my editor now, so I haven't 
printed down a book since . . .let's see, the last one I Fed Exed to a 
publisher was Shards I believe.

Rule of thumb is about 280 words a page, give or take.  Depends on how 
rigorous I am about margins and such.  Given the publisher changes 
formats, I have no idea what the "cast off," i.e.how many printed pages 
that's going to be.

As a rule of thumb I use 60% to guess where I am, i.e. if the manuscript 
if 400 pages, then the book will be 320 pages.  But that can chance 
depending on book design.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 14:37:24 -0400
Subject: Re: TotSH & another question
From: "Bob M. Montgomery" <bmontgomery@mrpllc.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Thanks for answering my curiosity questions! As different as some 
aspects might be, apparently deadlines are the same everywhere <G>


> There is little flexibility; publisher don't own their own presses and
> press time is very valuable.  If you're book isn't on the press then
> off by such and such a date, the next date open might be months down
> the road.


That sounds familiar. We have the same situation with our print times, 
although with books, as you said, the next available print time is a lot 
longer ahead! If we miss ours for some reason, it's usually a day or 
two; however, when that happens, we end up running afoul of the US Post 
Office with postage regulations (thankfully, I don't have to deal with 
that)... now /that/ gets expensive.


> I don't know about Steve.  Publishers like to know in advance when a
> book is coming in; it gives them much needed lead time for promotion
> and publicity.  Not having a contract is called doing a book "on spec,"
> i.e. a speculative project.  Some authors do that, but most like to
> have the money in front, which means a deadline.
>


Ah, I hadn't considered the necessary promotional lead time... that 
makes perfect sense.

Thanks again!

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From: "Doug Triplett, Superhero in Training !!!" <trippy@dougtriplett.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
References: <jNPCDTCAXLV9EwwY@blueyonder.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Crydee.com undergoing updates-  your help needed
Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 17:44:56 -0400
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Doug Triplett, Superhero in Training !!!" <trippy@dougtriplett.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Crydee.com undergoing updates-  your help needed
Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 17:44:56 -0400
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

I am interested in one of the Profit stories. Let me know where to
send the money or let me know if you take paypal.

I might be interested in one of the crydee addresses let me knkow the details.

Doug

***************
>Ninth
>If you have anything Feist or Midkemia related that is not shown at 
>Crydee a picture and detail would be of interest
>please send email to
>crydeeother@crydee.com
>
>Tenth
>I am considering offering Crydee email address on a yearly basis
>If I go ahead there will be 2 options
>The first and cheapest will be a mail redirection
>The second will be a POP3 email box
>This will all depend on interest/demand
>Address will likely be in the format
>firstname.secondname@crydee.com
>if you are interested
>please send email to
>crydeeemail@crydee.com
>
>Lastly
>I still have a quantity of Profit and the Grey Assassin Left, but it is 
>going down rapidly They are $26 each including shipping to most normal 
>places on earth. Midkemia may be a bit extra
>-- 
>John
>
>john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
>http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.
>
>Raymond E Feist Ring
>http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm
>



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Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 18:34:13 EDT
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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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From: Gkhd11a@aol.com
Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 18:34:13 EDT
Subject: Re: TotSH & another question
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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In a message dated 8/9/02 7:41:48 PM Central Daylight Time, 
raymond@bittersea.com writes:
> Bill and I talked about a book that's unrelated to HE

    By unrelated to Honoured Enemy, do you mean not in Midkemia (or Kelewan)? 
 Or just a book that doesn't have anything to do with the events and 
characters of Honoured Enemy?  Murder in Lamut wasn't bad, but Honoured Enemy 
was great.  



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Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 23:45:36 +0100
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From: "Chris Smith" <cjs94@zepler.org.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 23:45:36 +0100
Subject: Re: TotSH & another question
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On 10 Aug 2002 at 6:37, Raymond Feist wrote:

> 
> On Saturday, August 10, 2002, at 02:33 AM, Chris Smith wrote:
> 
> > Can you clarify exactly what is involved in a rewrite?  Do you 
> > literally retype every page?  What's the purpose?  Is there something 
> > wrong with the existing script that you
> > aim to fix?
> >
> > It seems like a lot of effort to go to, and I don't quite understand 
> > the benefit.
> >
> 
> Then obviously, you've never been involved in a serious written project, 
> or you have the happy knack of getting it perfect the first draft.
> 
> I could cite examples, but really, is it necessary?  You change what 
> doesn't work, and sometimes your new material doesn't work and you 
> change that.  You rewrite until you get the desired effect.

No, I haven't been involved in a serious (as in long and involved)
written project, documents that I write are usually short (less than
30 pages) and of a technical nature.  I don't draft because there is
no need; the material I write is not subject to artistic
interpretation, it is either correct or incorrect, in which case it
doesn't get written.

How I write is entirely irrelevant, we were talking about how you
write.  Specifically, we were talking about how you write with other
authors, a process with which only you and your co-author are
familiar.  The source of [my] confusion is with the term "rewrite";
you said that you rewrite your co-authors material, now that sounds a
bit drastic to me and makes me think that you and I differ quite
markedly in our opinion of what constitutes a "rewrite".  With that in
mind, I asked you to clarify your definition of a "rewrite".

> No, you don't retype every page.  That's why they invented word 
> processors.

When I rewrite a document I start with a blank screen. Anything more
is, IMHO, editing.  That's why they invented text editors...


Chris
-- 
Chris Smith <cjs94@zepler.org.uk>



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From: "Doug Triplett, Superhero in Training !!!" <trippy@dougtriplett.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Sorry
Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 22:34:41 -0400
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Sorry about that last message going to the whole list. I forgot to check the
reply.

Doug


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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2002 01:40:01 -0700
Subject: Re: TotSH & another question
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Saturday, August 10, 2002, at 03:34 PM, Gkhd11a@aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 8/9/02 7:41:48 PM Central Daylight Time,
> raymond@bittersea.com writes:
>
> << Bill and I talked about a book that's
>  unrelated to HE >>
>
>     By unrelated to Honoured Enemy, do you mean not in Midkemia (or 
> Kelewan)?
>  Or just a book that doesn't have anything to do with the events and
> characters of Honoured Enemy?  Murder in Lamut wasn't bad, but Honoured 
> Enemy
> was great.
>
>
>
>

A book that doesn't have anything to do with Hartraft and Asiaga.

It would be a naval theme, maybe an Amos Trask book, I don't know.  But 
something along the lines of Pirates of the Bitter Sea.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Subject: Another writing minutiae question
Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2002 05:09:37 -0400
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From: "Slade" <slade@blackoak.com>
To: "FEISTFANS-L@cornell. edu" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Another writing minutiae question
Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2002 05:09:37 -0400
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Ray,

Mind if I ask what format you use when you write on computer? For example,
when I write a letter I use WordPerfect with 12 point Times Roman font,
since that seems to be easiest on my eyes. Black text on white background
as well, though some days I'm tempted to reverse to black background and
green or amber text.

Mark "curious what people use" Ingraham



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Subject: Re: curiosity [spoiler for Krondor: Betrayal...sorta]
Message-ID: <1029059501.3d5633ad31003@epost.start.no>
Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2002 11:51:41 +0200 (CEST)
From: trym asserson <teeba@start.no>
References: <4BA26D40-ABF6-11D6-ACEB-003065A8A644@bittersea.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20020810135136.00b48900@pop.tiscali.co.uk>
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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: curiosity [spoiler for Krondor: Betrayal...sorta]
Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2002 11:51:41 +0200 (CEST)
From: trym asserson <teeba@start.no>
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(As the subject reads... SPOILER for Krondor: Betrayal, and the computer game
version)




To qualify that statement a bit further, Jessica, the end of the computer game
has a very similar end as the book. Gorath's demise is as swift and the end
sequence passed quickly, so it was unexpected when it happened in the game too.

As Al says, with the book based on the game, then it was obviously difficult to
keep Gorath alive any further; his part in Midkemia and the events surrounding
the Riftwar seemed to be completed.

All the best,

Trym

Quoting Al Burrell <al.burl@tiscali.co.uk>:
> You have to remember that the book is based on the computer game
> "Betrayal 
> at Krondor."
> 
> Al
> 
> At 21:42 09/08/2002 -0400, weltj@umich.edu wrote:
> >I know that everyone on this list is pouring forth praise for REF's
> books, 
> >and I as well am full of that same praise.  It is because of my high 
> >expectations of Feist's writing that I was a bit disappointed in the
> end 
> >of Krondor: The Betrayal.  I thought the book itself was great, and I
> fell 
> >in love with Owyn's innocence and Gorath's transformation.  But I
> thought 
> >that Gorath's death was cut a bit short, I found myself reading the 
> >passage again to make sure that that was indeed what happened.  I was
> >wondering if there was some reason that one of the major characters in
> the 
> >book was sort of brushed aside at the end.  I was also hoping to see
> more 
> >of Owyn, but I'm guessing that in the rest of the Riftwar Legacy will
> deal 
> >with that. Other than that, I love the Riftwar Legacy books so far. 
> Jimmy 
> >is by far one of my favorite characters...he reminds me of Pug as a 
> >boy.  I also love REF's references to his "past life" as a thief.  Keep
> it 
> >coming!
> >
> >Jessica
> 


------------------------------------------------------------
Få din egen @start.no-adresse gratis på http://www.start.no/



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Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2002 08:16:46 -0400
Subject: Re: TotSH & another question
From: "Bob M. Montgomery" <bmontgomery@mrpllc.com>
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Excellent! I'm sure that would be a great story to read.

On Sunday, August 11, 2002, at 04:40  AM, Raymond Feist wrote:

> It would be a naval theme, maybe an Amos Trask book, I don't know.  But 
> something along the lines of Pirates of the Bitter Sea.



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Not Ray, but when I write I tend to use a simple 12 point Times font. 
More important I almost always print out what I write and reread it 
quietly some other day and make pencil notes within the writting. For 
that purpouse I continued college practice of using dopuble space 
(allows editing above the actual text line). I have never bothered about 
my eyes getting hurt (I tire little even after 8 hours behind the 
screen, longer tends to wear my back down, not my eyes).

The above is for fiction writting or anything related to my game 
designs. For business like writting I tend to use 9 or 10 point fonts 
with single space etc. I often have to play arount formating as well as 
I tend to prepare fliers and leaflets to distribute and they have to fit 
on 1 page, 2 pages or very rarely 4 pages and still look good enough for 
people to read them. But then I generally write in 12 point on screen 
and reformat later (though I often keep the same styles for multiple, 
related documents).

And the software I use is MS Word (Office 98 for Mac), I won't even 
bother to upgrade as I trully hate Microsoft (though we should not 
restart the platform wars now).

Marc aka Caran... activist, game designer of sorts and a failed fantasy 
writer (at least for now)

Slade wrote:

>Ray,
>
>Mind if I ask what format you use when you write on computer? For example,
>when I write a letter I use WordPerfect with 12 point Times Roman font,
>since that seems to be easiest on my eyes. Black text on white background
>as well, though some days I'm tempted to reverse to black background and
>green or amber text.
>
>Mark "curious what people use" Ingraham
>
>



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From: "M Chaloner" <markchaloner@btinternet.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Trask & the Bitter Sea
Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2002 14:15:23 +0100
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From: "M Chaloner" <markchaloner@btinternet.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Trask & the Bitter Sea
Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2002 14:15:23 +0100
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From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Raymond Feist
>A book that doesn't have anything to do with Hartraft and Asiaga.
>It would be a naval theme, maybe an Amos Trask book, I don't know.  But 
>something along the lines of Pirates of the Bitter Sea.
>Best, R.E.F.
>

I think a Pirates of the Bitter Sea book sounds very appealing - go for
it.

Mark ;-)



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Subject: Re: curiosity [spoiler for Krondor: Betrayal...sorta]
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From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: curiosity [spoiler for Krondor: Betrayal...sorta]
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Reply below

> I know that everyone on this list is pouring forth praise for REF's books,
> and I as well am full of that same praise.  It is because of my high
> expectations of Feist's writing that I was a bit disappointed in the end of
> Krondor: The Betrayal.  I thought the book itself was great, and I fell in
> love with Owyn's innocence and Gorath's transformation.  But I thought that
> Gorath's death was cut a bit short, I found myself reading the passage
> again to make sure that that was indeed what happened.  I was wondering if
> there was some reason that one of the major characters in the book was sort
> of brushed aside at the end.  I was also hoping to see more of Owyn, but
> I'm guessing that in the rest of the Riftwar Legacy will deal with that.
> Other than that, I love the Riftwar Legacy books so far.  Jimmy is by far
> one of my favorite characters...he reminds me of Pug as a boy.  I also love
> REF's references to his "past life" as a thief.  Keep it coming!
> Jessica

YOu have to remember that Gorath's death was preddetermined by a computer
game, it would have been weird for Ray just to change the ending :)



Thanks
Darragh
================================================
msn: iamtheporkfireman@hotmail.com

"Believe or die - thank you O lord for all those
 options" - Bill Hicks.
================================================



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Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2002 11:02:50 EDT
Subject: Re: Trask & the Bitter Sea
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*** EOOH ***
From: JEEPMONSTER69@aol.com
Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2002 11:02:50 EDT
Subject: Re: Trask & the Bitter Sea
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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In a message dated 8/11/2002 9:44:38 AM Eastern Daylight Time, 
markchaloner@btinternet.com writes:


> A book that doesn't have anything to do with Hartraft and Asiaga.
> It would be a naval theme, maybe an Amos Trask book, I don't know.  But 
> something along the lines of Pirates of the Bitter Sea.
> Best, R.E.F.
> 
> 
> I think a Pirates of the Bitter Sea book sounds very appealing - go for
> it.
> 
> Mark ;-)
> 

I agree- The King's Buccaneer is my favorite among all of Ray's books, mostly 
because of the seafaring aspect of it, and because Amos Trask is an exact 
copy of my father- looks the same, acts the same, did the same type of 
things...it would be good to read about him and the Captains of the Coast.

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Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 01:09:06 +1000 (GMT+1000)
From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Q for Ray.
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G'day Ray.

Just a simple/short Q. Have you been invited by other authors to 'play in
their backyard', or if not, would you ever [do such a thing]?

On a another note, not strictly directed to Ray, does anyone have any news
of where the Brisbane, Australia REF signings will be at? I havent had
time to ring up all the stores yet to find out, and was wondering if
anyone else had...appreciate any response.

Thanks
Darragh
================================================
msn: iamtheporkfireman@hotmail.com

"Believe or die - thank you O lord for all those
 options" - Bill Hicks.
================================================



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From: "Michael Gibson" <gibfish@gibbyco.freeserve.co.uk>
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From: "Michael Gibson" <gibfish@gibbyco.freeserve.co.uk>
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Subject: Tour Conventions
Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2002 16:17:37 +0100
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Hi All

I'm going to my first Feist signing this year, and I was wondering, do
us "listers" do anything so we can pick each other out?  Like, wear a
badge, or funny hat, or some such?

Also, I realised yesterday that after making illustrious claims for
people to write which signings they'll be going to on my forums, that
starting threads was not allowed by guests.  I've now started off a
number of threads for the UK tours (more to follow), so if anyone is
interested in noting down where they're going, it is now possible (it
had quite a number of hits, so I'm guessing so).  Find them at:
http://www.tonrae.co.uk/forums

choosing the "2002 Feist Tour" Forum.

Reflecting on the first issue, I've also started a "Standing out from
the Crowd" thread.

Mike,
Gibfish of the West

"Morituri Nolumus Mori"



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From: "Cameron Duncan" <cduncan@atinera.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Q for Ray.
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 01:26:08 +1000
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> G'day Ray.
>
> Just a simple/short Q. Have you been invited by other authors to 'play in
> their backyard', or if not, would you ever [do such a thing]?
>
> On a another note, not strictly directed to Ray, does anyone have any news
> of where the Brisbane, Australia REF signings will be at? I havent had
> time to ring up all the stores yet to find out, and was wondering if
> anyone else had...appreciate any response.
>
> Thanks
> Darragh
> ================================================
> msn: iamtheporkfireman@hotmail.com
>
> "Believe or die - thank you O lord for all those
>  options" - Bill Hicks.
> ================================================

The only confirmed one I know of is at Angus & Robertson PO square.
I was talking to the manager last week, and for some reason, they seem to
want to
keep it quiet for the moment.  The signing will be 11am Sept 25th.

I beleive Mac Cambells in Toowoomba may be on the schedule but can't confirm
that
until I am in Toowoomba next week.

Ray may know more.

Cameron



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Subject: Re: Another writing minutiae question
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References: <OGEDLKPNJIHDEAOIMFHEIEFDCJAA.slade@blackoak.com>
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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: Richard Williamson <richard.williamson@windriver.com>
Subject: Re: Another writing minutiae question
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At 13:25 11/08/2002, Caranorn Aglaredhel spake thusly:
>Not Ray, but when I write I tend to use a simple 12 point Times font. More important I 

Also not Ray, but I checked the publisher's website, 
read there what it was that /he/ wanted, and that's
what the manuscript will be submitted in.  My own
personal preference is so far down the list of what
is relevant that it falls under the heading:  "Not Relevant".

;->

For capture, I use ClarisWorks on a Mac.  When I'm
on the road, paper and pencil if physically traveling,
then on some web software* I wrote for when I'm not home.

That's until my wife buys her G4 iTanium, which she 
needs for her doctoral thesis, and which I told her
she has to let me use it occasionally, or there Will
Be Trouble.  

rip

-- 
* Writing Tools for Travelers Without Laptops:
http://www.ferkel.co.uk/cgi/nano/nanome.cgi
Instructions:
http://www.ferkel.co.uk/nano/index.html



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Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2002 09:29:26 -0700
Subject: Re: Another writing minutiae question
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On Sunday, August 11, 2002, at 02:09 AM, Slade wrote:

> Ray,
>
> Mind if I ask what format you use when you write on computer? For 
> example,
> when I write a letter I use WordPerfect with 12 point Times Roman font,
> since that seems to be easiest on my eyes. Black text on white 
> background
> as well, though some days I'm tempted to reverse to black background and
> green or amber text.
>
> Mark "curious what people use" Ingraham
>
>
>
>

I use 12 point courier.  Old habits die hard and for some reason seeing 
things looking like a typewrite seems to make sense to me.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2002 09:32:14 -0700
Subject: Re: Q for Ray.
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Sunday, August 11, 2002, at 08:26 AM, Cameron Duncan wrote:

>> G'day Ray.
>>
>> Just a simple/short Q. Have you been invited by other authors to 'play 
>> in
>> their backyard', or if not, would you ever [do such a thing]?
>>
>> On a another note, not strictly directed to Ray, does anyone have any 
>> news
>> of where the Brisbane, Australia REF signings will be at? I havent had
>> time to ring up all the stores yet to find out, and was wondering if
>> anyone else had...appreciate any response.
>>
>> Thanks
>> Darragh
>> ================================================
>> msn: iamtheporkfireman@hotmail.com
>>
>> "Believe or die - thank you O lord for all those
>>  options" - Bill Hicks.
>> ================================================
>
> The only confirmed one I know of is at Angus & Robertson PO square.
> I was talking to the manager last week, and for some reason, they seem 
> to
> want to
> keep it quiet for the moment.  The signing will be 11am Sept 25th.
>
> I beleive Mac Cambells in Toowoomba may be on the schedule but can't 
> confirm
> that
> until I am in Toowoomba next week.
>
> Ray may know more.
>
> Cameron
>
>
>
>

Back to Toowoomba?  Crikey!

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2002 09:31:36 -0700
Subject: Re: Q for Ray.
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Sunday, August 11, 2002, at 08:09 AM, Darragh Murray wrote:

> G'day Ray.
>
> Just a simple/short Q. Have you been invited by other authors to 'play 
> in
> their backyard', or if not, would you ever [do such a thing]?

No, and I might if it was the right universe.  One project I'd love to 
do, but will never get a bash at would be the "last" Travis McGee novel 
_Black Borders for McGee_ but as I have no juice as a mystery writer, 
and the McDonald estate probably has never heard of me, it will never 
hapen.

>
> On a another note, not strictly directed to Ray, does anyone have any 
> news
> of where the Brisbane, Australia REF signings will be at? I havent had
> time to ring up all the stores yet to find out, and was wondering if
> anyone else had...appreciate any response.
>

I'll post all that I have later in the week.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2002 09:34:18 -0700
Subject: Re: Tour Conventions
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2002 09:34:18 -0700
Subject: Re: Tour Conventions
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On Sunday, August 11, 2002, at 08:17 AM, Michael Gibson wrote:

> Hi All
>
> I'm going to my first Feist signing this year, and I was wondering, do
> us "listers" do anything so we can pick each other out?  Like, wear a
> badge, or funny hat, or some such?
>
> Also, I realised yesterday that after making illustrious claims for
> people to write which signings they'll be going to on my forums, that
> starting threads was not allowed by guests.  I've now started off a
> number of threads for the UK tours (more to follow), so if anyone is
> interested in noting down where they're going, it is now possible (it
> had quite a number of hits, so I'm guessing so).  Find them at:
> http://www.tonrae.co.uk/forums
>
> choosing the "2002 Feist Tour" Forum.
>
> Reflecting on the first issue, I've also started a "Standing out from
> the Crowd" thread.
>

Might I make the following suggestion.  To stand out in the crowd, each 
of you should be accompanied by a six foot tall supermodel or stripper, 
any race or hair color, just so long as the girl is a walking heart 
attack.

Well, it is one idea . . . .

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Raymond Feist wrote:
> 
> On Sunday, August 11, 2002, at 08:17 AM, Michael Gibson wrote:
> 
>> Hi All
>>
>> I'm going to my first Feist signing this year, and I was wondering, do
>> us "listers" do anything so we can pick each other out?  Like, wear a
>> badge, or funny hat, or some such?
>>
>> Also, I realised yesterday that after making illustrious claims for
>> people to write which signings they'll be going to on my forums, that
>> starting threads was not allowed by guests.  I've now started off a
>> number of threads for the UK tours (more to follow), so if anyone is
>> interested in noting down where they're going, it is now possible (it
>> had quite a number of hits, so I'm guessing so).  Find them at:
>> http://www.tonrae.co.uk/forums
>>
>> choosing the "2002 Feist Tour" Forum.
>>
>> Reflecting on the first issue, I've also started a "Standing out from
>> the Crowd" thread.
>>
> 
> Might I make the following suggestion.  To stand out in the crowd, each 
> of you should be accompanied by a six foot tall supermodel or stripper, 
> any race or hair color, just so long as the girl is a walking heart attack.
> 
> Well, it is one idea . . . .

WHile that might be an achievable goal for some (ahem), for normal 
mortals it's just a *bit* beyond the pale.  :)

cd
-- 
Death to all Absolutists!



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*** EOOH ***
From: "Cameron Duncan" <cduncan@atinera.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Q for Ray.
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 02:48:17 +1000
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<snip>
> >
> > The only confirmed one I know of is at Angus & Robertson PO square.
> > I was talking to the manager last week, and for some reason, they seem
> > to
> > want to
> > keep it quiet for the moment.  The signing will be 11am Sept 25th.
> >
> > I beleive Mac Cambells in Toowoomba may be on the schedule but can't
> > confirm
> > that
> > until I am in Toowoomba next week.
> >
> > Ray may know more.
> >
> > Cameron
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> Back to Toowoomba?  Crikey!
>
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
>
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
> stupidity

That's what I keep saying.  Seems my parents thought Toowoomba was a good
place
to buy a pub.  Now I'm forced to drive up to visit once a month.  Oh well,
at least the alcohol is free <g>
.....and there are some good book shops there :)

Cameron



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From: "Michael Gibson" <gibfish@gibbyco.freeserve.co.uk>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Tour Conventions
Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2002 19:45:06 +0100
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From: "Michael Gibson" <gibfish@gibbyco.freeserve.co.uk>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Tour Conventions
Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2002 19:45:06 +0100
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> > Reflecting on the first issue, I've also started a
> "Standing out from
> > the Crowd" thread.
> >
>
> Might I make the following suggestion.  To stand out in the
> crowd, each
> of you should be accompanied by a six foot tall supermodel or
> stripper,
> any race or hair color, just so long as the girl is a walking heart
> attack.
>
> Well, it is one idea . . . .

I'll do my best... it would a drag having to tow an extra person along,
but I think I'd put up with it, seeing as you asked nicely... ;)

Mike,
Gibfish of the West

Non Timetis Messor



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From: tim.plummer@ap.interfaceinc.com
Subject: Re: Tour Conventions
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Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 08:52:47 +1000
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>On Sunday, August 11, 2002, at 08:17 AM, Michael Gibson wrote:
> Hi All
>
> I'm going to my first Feist signing this year, and I was wondering, do
> us "listers" do anything so we can pick each other out?  Like, wear a
> badge, or funny hat, or some such?


Will the crate of books that we'll all be carrying be sufficient?

Tim



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Subject: Re: curiosity [spoiler for Krondor: Betrayal...sorta]
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From: weltj@umich.edu
Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2002 18:59:37 -0400
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: curiosity [spoiler for Krondor: Betrayal...sorta]
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

To all who responded that Gorath's death had to be that way because of the 
computer game, I never said that REF should have changed the ending.  I 
just felt that as a character I had grown to love, there should have been a 
bit more said about him after his death.  A bit more mourning or praise or 
mention of him I guess.  I realize that his death was supposed to be quick 
and surprising, but I was just disappointed at the lack of reaction by the 
people who he had become friends with, that's all.

Jessica

-On Monday, August 12, 2002 1:01 AM +1000 Darragh Murray 
<s356179@student.uq.edu.au> wrote:

>
> Reply below
>
> > I know that everyone on this list is pouring forth praise for REF's
> > books, and I as well am full of that same praise.  It is because of my
> > high expectations of Feist's writing that I was a bit disappointed in
> > the end of Krondor: The Betrayal.  I thought the book itself was great,
> > and I fell in love with Owyn's innocence and Gorath's transformation.
> > But I thought that Gorath's death was cut a bit short, I found myself
> > reading the passage again to make sure that that was indeed what
> > happened.  I was wondering if there was some reason that one of the
> > major characters in the book was sort of brushed aside at the end.  I
> > was also hoping to see more of Owyn, but I'm guessing that in the rest
> > of the Riftwar Legacy will deal with that. Other than that, I love the
> > Riftwar Legacy books so far.  Jimmy is by far one of my favorite
> > characters...he reminds me of Pug as a boy.  I also love REF's
> > references to his "past life" as a thief.  Keep it coming! Jessica
>
> YOu have to remember that Gorath's death was preddetermined by a computer
> game, it would have been weird for Ray just to change the ending :)
>
>
>
> Thanks
> Darragh
> ================================================
> msn: iamtheporkfireman@hotmail.com
>
> "Believe or die - thank you O lord for all those
>  options" - Bill Hicks.
> ================================================



"In an infinite universe, all things are not only possible but, no matter
how improbable, certain to exist somewhere at some time." - REF



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From: Gkhd11a@aol.com
Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2002 19:50:12 EDT
Subject: Re: Trask & the Bitter Sea
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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In a message dated 8/11/02 10:25:37 AM Central Daylight Time, 
JEEPMONSTER69@aol.com writes:
>I agree- The King's Buccaneer is my favorite among all of Ray's books, mostly 
>because of the seafaring aspect of it, and because Amos Trask is an exact 
>copy of my father- looks the same, acts the same, did the same type of 
>things...it would be good to read about him and the Captains of the Coast.

    It's not surprising that he looks like your father because you probably 
made him look like him in you mind.  I'm willing to bet that there wasn't 
much more of a description of Amos than a big man.   I remember reading a 
book, and they way I imagined this house was the exact same as the one I 
lived in till I was 8.  I didn't even realize it until after I finished 
reading the book.  



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From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: curiosity [spoiler for Krondor: Betrayal...sorta]
In-Reply-To: <2595193500.1029092377@[192.168.1.100]>
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Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 09:57:05 +1000 (GMT+1000)
From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: curiosity [spoiler for Krondor: Betrayal...sorta]
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


Well, its been a while since I read KtB, but I'll make a suggestion:
Gorath being moredhel, and a former clan chief, I'd think that while the
kingdom and its people would have appreciated his role, they'd still have
adequete enough reason to distrust him (yes even nobility like Arutha
etc), and considering the invasion that happened ten years prior to the
book. Old habits die hard.

> To all who responded that Gorath's death had to be that way because of the
> computer game, I never said that REF should have changed the ending.  I
> just felt that as a character I had grown to love, there should have been a
> bit more said about him after his death.  A bit more mourning or praise or
> mention of him I guess.  I realize that his death was supposed to be quick
> and surprising, but I was just disappointed at the lack of reaction by the
> people who he had become friends with, that's all.
>
> Jessica
>
> -On Monday, August 12, 2002 1:01 AM +1000 Darragh Murray
> <s356179@student.uq.edu.au> wrote:
>
> >
> > Reply below
> >
> > > I know that everyone on this list is pouring forth praise for REF's
> > > books, and I as well am full of that same praise.  It is because of my
> > > high expectations of Feist's writing that I was a bit disappointed in
> > > the end of Krondor: The Betrayal.  I thought the book itself was great,
> > > and I fell in love with Owyn's innocence and Gorath's transformation.
> > > But I thought that Gorath's death was cut a bit short, I found myself
> > > reading the passage again to make sure that that was indeed what
> > > happened.  I was wondering if there was some reason that one of the
> > > major characters in the book was sort of brushed aside at the end.  I
> > > was also hoping to see more of Owyn, but I'm guessing that in the rest
> > > of the Riftwar Legacy will deal with that. Other than that, I love the
> > > Riftwar Legacy books so far.  Jimmy is by far one of my favorite
> > > characters...he reminds me of Pug as a boy.  I also love REF's
> > > references to his "past life" as a thief.  Keep it coming! Jessica
> >
> > YOu have to remember that Gorath's death was preddetermined by a computer
> > game, it would have been weird for Ray just to change the ending :)
> >
> >
> >
> > Thanks
> > Darragh
> > ================================================
> > msn: iamtheporkfireman@hotmail.com
> >
> > "Believe or die - thank you O lord for all those
> >  options" - Bill Hicks.
> > ================================================
>
>
>
> "In an infinite universe, all things are not only possible but, no matter
> how improbable, certain to exist somewhere at some time." - REF
>
>

Thanks
Darragh
================================================
msn: iamtheporkfireman@hotmail.com

"Believe or die - thank you O lord for all those
 options" - Bill Hicks.
================================================



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Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2002 19:22:10 -0600
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Trask & the Bitter Sea
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Gkhd11a@aol.com wrote:
> 
>     It's not surprising that he looks like your father because you probably
> made him look like him in you mind.  I'm willing to bet that there wasn't
> much more of a description of Amos than a big man.

Well, we DO have one cover art with Amos, don't we?

Craig J. Ries



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From: "Deon O'Brien" <randmtask@optushome.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
References: <2E78A801-AD48-11D6-AB46-003065A8A644@bittersea.com>
Subject: Re: Tour Conventions
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Deon O'Brien" <randmtask@optushome.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Tour Conventions
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 11:46:30 +1000
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Raymond Feist" <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Monday, August 12, 2002 2:34 AM
Subject: Re: Tour Conventions

> Might I make the following suggestion.  To stand out in the crowd, each
> of you should be accompanied by a six foot tall supermodel or stripper,
> any race or hair color, just so long as the girl is a walking heart
> attack.
>
> Well, it is one idea . . . .
>
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
>

That was the idea .... someone has to carry all those extra books :)

Deon O'Brien
--
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not
sure about the former." - Albert Einstein (1879-1955)



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From: "Michelle Thomson" <chell_40@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Book Care
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 14:15:23 +1200
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From: "Michelle Thomson" <chell_40@hotmail.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Hi all

I've noticed there are several book collectors out there.  I was wondering 
what you did to them to keep tham in top physical condition.  ie. do you lie 
them down or stand them up on the shelves? Do you put them into air tight 
bags etc.

Also what do you do with the books you plan to read and re-read?  ie do you 
reinforce the bindings etc.


Michelle Thomson

*************************
Never argue with an idiot, first they bring you down to their level, then 
they beat you with experience.


_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com



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Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2002 22:38:53 EDT
Subject: Re: curiosity [spoiler for Krondor: Betrayal...sorta]
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From: Smoking88@aol.com
Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2002 22:38:53 EDT
Subject: Re: curiosity [spoiler for Krondor: Betrayal...sorta]
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Gorath served his purpose.  He warned the kingdom of the coming attack.  His 
death at the end was necessary.  Had he lived we would all be asking for info 
on what was going on with him, whether he "Returns" or not.  also it was 
crucial to the "good guys" winning.  I think if you re-read the series you'll 
realize keeping him alive just would not have fit.  Betrayal was my first 
Feist book and as such I was dissapointed with Gorath's death.  However after 
reading everything that came before, then everything after it makes sense for 
him to perish a Hero than to live a renegade.
joe

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Subject: Re: curiosity [spoiler for Krondor: Betrayal...sorta]
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From: Smoking88@aol.com
Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2002 22:56:51 EDT
Subject: Re: curiosity [spoiler for Krondor: Betrayal...sorta]
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there is little reaction because everyone involved is so mentally and 
physically drained.  they all went through one unbelievable ordeal.Just 
becayse Ray didn't write it into the story doesn't mean there weren't toasts 
at pubs and inns to the great Gorath who unselfishly betrayed his bretheren.
joe

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Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2002 22:57:19 EDT
Subject: Re: Trask & the Bitter Sea
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From: JEEPMONSTER69@aol.com
Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2002 22:57:19 EDT
Subject: Re: Trask & the Bitter Sea
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In a message dated 8/11/2002 9:55:09 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
cries@yifan.net writes:


> Well, we DO have one cover art with Amos, don't we?
> 
> Craig J. Ries
> 

That's true...my father is 6'4", about 260, with a grey beard and 
greyish-black hair...it's him.
                                     Peace, 
                                                       Matt
"Lets Roll."- Todd Beamer
USA, Muthafacko!

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Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2002 20:04:46 -0700
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Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2002 20:04:46 -0700
From: Carl Dershem <dershem@cox.net>
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Michelle Thomson wrote:
> Hi all
> 
> I've noticed there are several book collectors out there.  I was 
> wondering what you did to them to keep tham in top physical condition.  
> ie. do you lie them down or stand them up on the shelves? Do you put 
> them into air tight bags etc.
> 
> Also what do you do with the books you plan to read and re-read?  ie do 
> you reinforce the bindings etc.

I don't really consider myself a collector - I only have around 12,000 
books, of which 10% are hardcovers.  All of them are for *reading* 
rather than being for some "collection."  But I keep them neat and 
clean, which shuld help, and unless I re-read them (which I often do) 
they don't degrade much, if at all, with time.

cd
-- 
Death to all Absolutists!



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Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 13:15:03 +1000
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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: Anestis Kozakis <kenosti@labyrinth.net.au>
Subject: [OT] Plain text E-Mails (Was Re: Trask & the Bitter Sea)
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 13:15:03 +1000
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: Anestis Kozakis <kenosti@labyrinth.net.au>
Subject: [OT] Plain text E-Mails (Was Re: Trask & the Bitter Sea)
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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>In a message dated 8/11/2002 9:55:09 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
>cries@yifan.net writes:
>
>>Well, we DO have one cover art with Amos, don't we?
>>
>>Craig J. Ries
>>
>
>
>That's true...my father is 6'4", about 260, with a grey beard and 
>greyish-black hair...it's him.
>                                     Peace,
>                                                       Matt
>"Lets Roll."- Todd Beamer
>USA, Muthafacko!
>               

The above message, and previous ones sent by you, have been 
unreadable to me as soon as I received them.  I have had to go to my 
e-mail's editor and turn the colour and stylings off so i can read 
them.

Why?

Because I have a black background on my e-mail program, with grey for the text.

HTML and Formatted  e-mails using black text, are invisible.

Not everyone uses the same e-mail program or preferences you do.

This is my second request for you to please post in plain text.

That way, everyone can read your message.

If you continue to use formatted text, then your posts will go 
straight to the trash, no matter what pearls of wisdom you have to 
impart on others.

Anestis.
-- 
kenosti@labyrinth.net.au
"A complete list of this film's associate producers
  is available upon request."
    -- In End Credits for "State and Main"



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From: Andrea J Chee <andrea@bloodaxe.com>
Subject: Re: Another writing minutiae question
References: <OGEDLKPNJIHDEAOIMFHEIEFDCJAA.slade@blackoak.com>
 <80ADE255-AD47-11D6-AB46-003065A8A644@bittersea.com>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 05:28:50 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: Andrea J Chee <andrea@bloodaxe.com>
Subject: Re: Another writing minutiae question
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

In article <80ADE255-AD47-11D6-AB46-003065A8A644@bittersea.com>, Raymond
Feist <raymond@bittersea.com> writes

>I use 12 point courier.  Old habits die hard and for some reason seeing 
>things looking like a typewrite seems to make sense to me.

The vast majority of people seem to use 12 pt Courier or Times,
including myself, which probably says something about the prevalence of
old habits. To me, the old fonts seem easier to read, but I suppose it
could just be familiarity that makes them so.

- ANDREA

-- 
^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^
                  ANDROMEDA - Internet Goddess
<andrea@bloodaxe.com>                    http://www.bloodaxe.com/
Bloodaxe's History Links:   http://www.geocities.com/Athens/5055/
The Loony Bin Archive:               http://www.theloonies.co.uk/



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References: <OGEDLKPNJIHDEAOIMFHEIEFDCJAA.slade@blackoak.com> <80ADE255-AD47-11D6-AB46-003065A8A644@bittersea.com> <WjI7V$ECmzV9EwUw@bloodaxe.demon.co.uk>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2002 21:33:55 -0700
From: Carl Dershem <dershem@cox.net>
Organization: Project Selene
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Andrea J Chee wrote:
> In article <80ADE255-AD47-11D6-AB46-003065A8A644@bittersea.com>, Raymond
> Feist <raymond@bittersea.com> writes
> 
>>I use 12 point courier.  Old habits die hard and for some reason seeing 
>>things looking like a typewrite seems to make sense to me.
> 
> The vast majority of people seem to use 12 pt Courier or Times,
> including myself, which probably says something about the prevalence of
> old habits. To me, the old fonts seem easier to read, but I suppose it
> could just be familiarity that makes them so.

It could be because so many editors still require double-spaced Courier 
12 for submissions.

cd
-- 
Death to all Absolutists!



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Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2002 22:17:13 -0700 (PDT)
From: Chris Vance <pikachu_chris@yahoo.com.sg>
Subject: Re: Tour Conventions
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--- Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com> wrote:
> 
> On Sunday, August 11, 2002, at 08:17 AM, Michael
> Gibson wrote:
> 
> > Hi All
> >
> > I'm going to my first Feist signing this year, and
> I was wondering, do
> > us "listers" do anything so we can pick each other
> out?  Like, wear a
> > badge, or funny hat, or some such?
> >
> > Also, I realised yesterday that after making
> illustrious claims for
> > people to write which signings they'll be going to
> on my forums, that
> > starting threads was not allowed by guests.  I've
> now started off a
> > number of threads for the UK tours (more to
> follow), so if anyone is
> > interested in noting down where they're going, it
> is now possible (it
> > had quite a number of hits, so I'm guessing so). 
> Find them at:
> > http://www.tonrae.co.uk/forums
> >
> > choosing the "2002 Feist Tour" Forum.
> >
> > Reflecting on the first issue, I've also started a
> "Standing out from
> > the Crowd" thread.
> >
> 
> Might I make the following suggestion.  To stand out
> in the crowd, each 
> of you should be accompanied by a six foot tall
> supermodel or stripper, 
> any race or hair color, just so long as the girl is
> a walking heart 
> attack.
> 
> Well, it is one idea . . . .
> 
> Best, R.E.F.

Then better get the paramedics ready... Wouldn't want
my favourite author having a cardiac arrest now, would
I. Especially when I'm about to get my books
signed.....

CIA
> ----
> 
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be
> explained away by 
> stupidity.
> 


=====
The Brainless

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs
http://www.hotjobs.com



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From: Chris Vance <pikachu_chris@yahoo.com.sg>
Subject: Re: Trask & the Bitter Sea
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2002 22:19:01 -0700 (PDT)
From: Chris Vance <pikachu_chris@yahoo.com.sg>
Subject: Re: Trask & the Bitter Sea
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

You mean your dad is a pirate?

Cool.......
--- JEEPMONSTER69@aol.com wrote:
> In a message dated 8/11/2002 9:55:09 PM Eastern
> Daylight Time, 
> cries@yifan.net writes:
> 
> 
> > Well, we DO have one cover art with Amos, don't
> we?
> > 
> > Craig J. Ries
> > 
> 
> That's true...my father is 6'4", about 260, with a
> grey beard and 
> greyish-black hair...it's him.
>                                      Peace, 
>                                                     
>   Matt
> "Lets Roll."- Todd Beamer
> USA, Muthafacko!
>                
> 


=====
The Brainless

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs
http://www.hotjobs.com



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2002 22:15:07 -0700 (PDT)
From: Chris Vance <pikachu_chris@yahoo.com.sg>
Subject: Re: Book Care
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Usually what I do before placing them on my bookshelf
is to line the shelf with a satin layer. This acts
like a cushion so that when I slide the book out to
inspect it, the friction isn't as great on the book.

I place gel packs on the bookshelf to prevent mildew
and keep my books away from sunlight. Also I stand
them up to reduce friction on the dust jacket. If you
lie them down, the back will get scratches when you
slide them out. And finally, I always get extra copies
for reading (usually paperbacks... much cheaper). Hope
this is useful for you.

--- Michelle Thomson <chell_40@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Hi all
> 
> I've noticed there are several book collectors out
> there.  I was wondering 
> what you did to them to keep tham in top physical
> condition.  ie. do you lie 
> them down or stand them up on the shelves? Do you
> put them into air tight 
> bags etc.
> 
> Also what do you do with the books you plan to read
> and re-read?  ie do you 
> reinforce the bindings etc.
> 
> 
> Michelle Thomson
> 
> *************************
> Never argue with an idiot, first they bring you down
> to their level, then 
> they beat you with experience.
> 
> 
>_________________________________________________________________
> Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device:
> http://mobile.msn.com
> 


=====
The Brainless

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs
http://www.hotjobs.com



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Subject: Re: Crydee.com undergoing updates-  your help needed
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John is it possible to put in a "board" where we can
leave messages? or for exchanging books? I confess I
am HTML illiterate, so I can't begin to make my own
Webpage. Hope you consider the above.

Thanks. And keep up the fantastic work at Crydee.
--- John <john@crydee.com> wrote:
> Well everyone. The lady friend is away for 2 weeks ,
> so I get to play 
> site update
> 
> Lots to do and here is your chances to get involved
> 
> First
> Anyone wanting to update there image or info in the
> rogues Gallery or 
> their associated details. Image can be a reasonable
> size
> If you want to put any details about yourself above
> what is already 
> shown, please send that too as I hope to add a link
> from the existing 
> info. This info may be edited if needed, and may not
> be included
> please email to details
> crydeerogues@crydee.com
> 
> Second
> The Members Listing will be updated. If you want
> adding or details 
> changed. Sorry a lot of changes were lost in a
> computer crash last month
> please send an email to
> crydeemembers@crydee.com
> 
> Third
> I plan on expanding the reviews section of the site.
> At present it only 
> has a few reviews by myself. I will continue to
> generate reviews as I 
> can for each title. Currently working on Talon. But
> I would be 
> interested in reviews by anyone else, which will be
> added as a 
> subsection. Length of review is not important, and
> credits will be 
> given. I would also appreciate a rating for the
> title on a scale of 1 to 
> 10
> please send email to
> crydeereview@crydee.com
> 
> Fourth
> The News section is woefully out of date. Anyone
> wanting to send in news 
> to get it up to date please do so in the next week.
> I will try and 
> update daily.
> After that, I am looking for a couple or three
> people to assist in 
> collecting news for the site., I should then be able
> to keep it up to 
> date
> please send email to
> crydeenews@crydee.com
> 
> Fifth
> The Publication section will undergo a revamp and
> update. I know a 
> number of books are not listed. Cover scans of Non
> English books would 
> be appreciated as would any other info from the book
> which I normally 
> list
> please send email to
> crydeecovers@crydee.com
> 
> Sixth
> Suggestions for additions or changes you might like
> to see. Fancy web 
> design will be limited  due to issues of
> computability with the various 
> browsers
> please send email to
> crydeesuggestions@crydee.com
> 
> Seventh
> If anyone has pictures of Ray from various signing
> they would like to 
> see displayed. I am expanding the section. Just send
> the picture in a 
> reasonable size, but the file should be no bigger
> than 600kb. With an 
> explanation of where and when
> please send email to
> crydeepicture@crydee.com
> 
> Eighth
> Any images you have created relating to Rays world
> or characters and 
> would like everyone to see I am happy to put in the
> art section. There 
> are already some really nice images there
> please send email to
> crydeeart@crydee.com
> 
> Ninth
> If you have anything Feist or Midkemia related that
> is not shown at 
> Crydee a picture and detail would be of interest
> please send email to
> crydeeother@crydee.com
> 
> Tenth
> I am considering offering Crydee email address on a
> yearly basis
> If I go ahead there will be 2 options
> The first and cheapest will be a mail redirection
> The second will be a POP3 email box
> This will all depend on interest/demand
> Address will likely be in the format
> firstname.secondname@crydee.com
> if you are interested
> please send email to
> crydeeemail@crydee.com
> 
> Lastly
> I still have a quantity of Profit and the Grey
> Assassin Left, but it is 
> going down rapidly They are $26 each including
> shipping to most normal 
> places on earth. Midkemia may be a bit extra
> -- 
> John
> 
> john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and
> shelves to fill,
> http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books,
> just fit the bill.
> 
> Raymond E Feist Ring
> http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm
> 


=====
The Brainless

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs
http://www.hotjobs.com



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Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 02:19:37 -0400
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Subject: Re: curiosity [spoiler for Krondor: Betrayal...sorta]
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*** EOOH ***
From: weltj@umich.edu
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 02:19:37 -0400
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: curiosity [spoiler for Krondor: Betrayal...sorta]
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Joe,
As I said in my previous email, I didn't not wish to see the end any 
different than it was (ie. Gorath living).  All I was saying was that I was 
sad that his death warrented such a small emotional response from those 
people who had gone through his transformation with him.

Jess

-On Sunday, August 11, 2002 10:38 PM +0000 Smoking88@aol.com wrote:

> Gorath served his purpose.  He warned the kingdom of the coming attack.
> His death at the end was necessary.  Had he lived we would all be asking
> for info on what was going on with him, whether he "Returns" or not.
> also it was crucial to the "good guys" winning.  I think if you re-read
> the series you'll realize keeping him alive just would not have fit.
> Betrayal was my first Feist book and as such I was dissapointed with
> Gorath's death.  However after reading everything that came before, then
> everything after it makes sense for him to perish a Hero than to live a
> renegade.  joe



"In an infinite universe, all things are not only possible but, no matter
how improbable, certain to exist somewhere at some time." - REF



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From: JEEPMONSTER69@aol.com
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 09:44:37 EDT
Subject: Re: Trask & the Bitter Sea
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In a message dated 8/12/2002 1:45:41 AM Eastern Daylight Time, 
pikachu_chris@yahoo.com.sg writes:


> You mean your dad is a pirate?
> 
> Cool.......
> 

No, not really a pirate... He was an amateur/freelance sailor in the 
Carribean about 25 years ago.  After hearing about some of the "capers" 
(thank you Nakor) he pulled, it just sort of clicked.

                                                       Peace,
                                                                   Matt

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To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Book Care
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 09:16:08 -0500
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Michelle Thomson
> Sent: Sunday, August 11, 2002 9:15 PM
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Subject: Book Care
>
>
> Hi all
>
> I've noticed there are several book collectors out there.  I was
> wondering
> what you did to them to keep tham in top physical condition.  ie.
> do you lie
> them down or stand them up on the shelves? Do you put them into air tight
> bags etc.
>
> Also what do you do with the books you plan to read and re-read?
> ie do you
> reinforce the bindings etc.
>
>
> Michelle Thomson


I do my best (now) to keep my books in collectable condition.  Back when I
was in college,
I worked in the University Library on the computer help desk.  As a Library
employee, I was
required to attend an orientation about "things to know while working in the
Library."  This
included book care, and I learned quite a few things about hardback books.

1) Books should never be placed on their ends (opposite the binding, not top
or bottom) as
gravity will eventually pull the pages away from the binding.

2) Never open a book so that it will lay flat on a given surface, as by that
point you will
most likely have broken the binding.  This leads to (eventually) pages that
fall out. (This was
important for people who needed to make copies of pages.)  Ideally, you
should not open a book
more than 90 degrees.

3) When you shelve a book, make certain that it is standing straight.  If it
is leaning one way or
another, the binding will shift to accommodate, and you will have a book
that will always lean.
This is where bookends come in handy for your shelves.

I wish that I had known these things sooner, as all my hardcover purchased
before that time look
rather scruffy.   My hardcover books rarely leave my house any more, as the
ones that I had in
college look scruffy due to being placed in a backpack over and over.  I
display my books without
the Dust jackets, which I have laying flat in a plastic bag, in a container
in my attic.  I do
read my hardback books, but not the "older" ones.  These I have replaced
with paperbacks.  If anyone
ever wants to read a book that I have, I always lend out the paperback.
They are much less expensive
to replace.

I plan on getting the 20th Anniversary edition of Magician, and I will
probably read it once.  It will
then go on my shelf, in chronological order, with the rest of Ray's First
Edition Hardcovers.  The
same will be true with Talon, but I will need to move some decorative things
from the shelf, as the
top shelf (where else would I put Ray's books with a two year old in the
house) will be full.

--Matt Maguire





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Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 11:07:48 EDT
Subject: Re: Trask & the Bitter Sea
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From: Gkhd11a@aol.com
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 11:07:48 EDT
Subject: Re: Trask & the Bitter Sea
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In a message dated 8/11/02 8:55:09 PM Central Daylight Time, cries@yifan.net 
writes:
> Well, we DO have one cover art with Amos, don't we?

What are you talking about, there isn't any cover art of Amos... *filps book 
over* ... oops.



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Subject: Re: curiosity [spoiler for Krondor: Betrayal...sorta]
References: <2621593331.1029118777@[192.168.1.100]>
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Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 11:13:33 -0400
From: Jud Partin <jpartin@vorlon.eas.gatech.edu>
Organization: Georgia Tech
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: curiosity [spoiler for Krondor: Betrayal...sorta]
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As I seem to remember, there was a toast to him at the end of the book
somwhere- I think. Been known to be wrong a lot.

I doubt it would've been too hard to keep Gorath around (that is if the game
hadn't of killed him off). Just give him a nice tree branch in Elvandar to hang
his sword and armor up in at night. He would've been a good guy to keep around
for future stories. But everyone has their purpose- and everyone's gotta go
sometime... including the big dogs in Midkemia. Which I'm sure will cause a
tumultuous uproar when it happens later!

Jud


weltj@umich.edu wrote:

> Joe,
> As I said in my previous email, I didn't not wish to see the end any
> different than it was (ie. Gorath living).  All I was saying was that I was
> sad that his death warrented such a small emotional response from those
> people who had gone through his transformation with him.
>
> Jess
>
> -On Sunday, August 11, 2002 10:38 PM +0000 Smoking88@aol.com wrote:
>
> > Gorath served his purpose.  He warned the kingdom of the coming attack.
> > His death at the end was necessary.  Had he lived we would all be asking
> > for info on what was going on with him, whether he "Returns" or not.
> > also it was crucial to the "good guys" winning.  I think if you re-read
> > the series you'll realize keeping him alive just would not have fit.
> > Betrayal was my first Feist book and as such I was dissapointed with
> > Gorath's death.  However after reading everything that came before, then
> > everything after it makes sense for him to perish a Hero than to live a
> > renegade.  joe
>
> "In an infinite universe, all things are not only possible but, no matter
> how improbable, certain to exist somewhere at some time." - REF



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From: "Cameron Duncan" <cduncan@atinera.com.au>
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Subject: RE: Book Care
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> Hi all
>
> I've noticed there are several book collectors out there.  I was
> wondering
> what you did to them to keep tham in top physical condition.  ie.
> do you lie
> them down or stand them up on the shelves? Do you put them into air tight
> bags etc.
>
> Also what do you do with the books you plan to read and re-read?
> ie do you
> reinforce the bindings etc.
>
>
> Michelle Thomson
>
> *************************
> Never argue with an idiot, first they bring you down to their level, then
> they beat you with experience.

I have a few options that I do depending on the book type -
- Hardback dustjackets are covered in protective plastic sleeves.
(I think in the US they have brands like Mylar & Brodart)
- Trade paperbacks get a school text book non-adhesive slip-on plastic
cover.
- Paperbacks I don't do anything special with.
- Proofs get put into a full cover plastic wrapper/bag
- Make sure that the book stands up straight on the shelf.
- Don't ever let direct sunlight hit the books for extended periods.

I also only ever put bookshelves against internal walls where practical. The
external walls heat up when the sun is on them.
If I can afford it this year, I'll put air conditioner/de-humidifier in the
study
to help prevent humidity damage.

Cameron



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Michelle Thomson <chell_40@hotmail.com> writes
>Hi all
>
>I've noticed there are several book collectors out there.  I was 
>wondering what you did to them to keep tham in top physical condition. 
>ie. do you lie them down or stand them up on the shelves? Do you put 
>them into air tight bags etc.

Basics

Stand upright no lean
Dustjacket protectors correctly fitted
No Smoking
Clean hands
Not too hot or cold or humid
Away from direct sunlight
In a room away from outside walls but also located so that a water leak 
from above won't run down the book case
Keep dust off if possible
Keep Feist books away from others, don't want them contaminated<G>
>
>Also what do you do with the books you plan to read and re-read?  ie do 
>you reinforce the bindings etc.
>
>

-- 
John

john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.

Raymond E Feist Ring
http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm



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Reply at bottom

-------Original Message-------
>
>From: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Date: 12 August 2002 03:08:26
>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: Re: Trask & the Bitter Sea
>
>Gkhd11a@aol.com wrote:
>> 
>> It's not surprising that he looks like your father because you probably
>> made him look like him in you mind. I'm willing to bet that there wasn't
>> much more of a description of Amos than a big man.
>
>Well, we DO have one cover art with Amos, don't we?
>
>Craig J. Ries 
I seem to recall various descriptions of Amos throughout his life.
I suggest you go re-read the entire Midkemia back catalogue and
take notes on his changes <grin>
Regards
Chris
"We must believe in luck. For how else can we explain the success of those
we don't like? 
Jean Cocteau (1889 - 1963)

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My guide to "book-keeping" (Call me barbaric or whatever you like...) :)

I prefer to only get one copy of any book (with exception of new, anniversary
editions coming out though), read it as it pleases me then stick in a shelf and
let time wear it away until I pick it back up to re-read it. What appeals to me
about books is the "feel" they get over time, so having one in mint condition
even after all those years that couldn't even be read would not be like me. And
though it may be nice to have a first edition in your shelf in good shape, I'd
still take it with slightly yellowed pages and a bit worn down dust jacket on
any day to the one that never got opened. :)

Not meant as criticism of anyone's hobby, I'm appreciative of its values as
well. Book collection in general just struck me as an odd hobby since books were
made to be read and its pages to be flipped, dust jackets to protect the binding
and thus be worn with use, etc etc, right?

All the best,

Trym

------------------------------------------------------------
Få din egen @start.no-adresse gratis på http://www.start.no/



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Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 14:38:51 -0400
Subject: Re: Book Care
From: Bob Montgomery <bmontgomery@mrpllc.com>
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On Monday, August 12, 2002, at 01:55  PM, John wrote:

> Keep Feist books away from others, don't want them contaminated<G>
>
>

Haha! Good one John... the moment I read that, I pictured my Stephen 
King Dark Tower series hardcovers ganging up with my old Weis & Hickman 
Death Gate cycle harcovers to give my greatly out numbered Feist 
hardcovers a hard time, maybe dogear some pages or bend some spines and 
that sort of thing <G>



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>
>Might I make the following suggestion. To stand out in the crowd, each 
>of you should be accompanied by a six foot tall supermodel or stripper, 
>any race or hair color, just so long as the girl is a walking heart 
>attack.
>
>Well, it is one idea . . . .
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>----

Ah... good idea Ray!
At least with you there we won't have to worry about taking them home! :-)
Regards
Chris
"There's only one way to have a happy marriage and as soon as I learn what
it is I'll get married again." 
Clint Eastwood


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>I seem to recall various descriptions of Amos throughout his life.

>I suggest you go re-read the entire Midkemia back catalogue and

>take notes on his changes <grin>

>Regards

>Chris


I think at some point he gains a scar on his belly <bg>

Paddyjack


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From: "Terri Lyn Layman" <terrilyn@fullnet.com>
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Ray,

You are my kind of guy!  *grin*

Hey, you never did tell us how your lady friend fared in her contest in
Vegas.

-TerriLyn

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Raymond Feist
<snip>
>
> Might I make the following suggestion.  To stand out in the
> crowd, each
> of you should be accompanied by a six foot tall supermodel or
> stripper,
> any race or hair color, just so long as the girl is a walking heart
> attack.
>
> Well, it is one idea . . . .
>
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
>
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be
> explained away by
> stupidity.



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Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com> writes
>Might I make the following suggestion.  To stand out in the crowd, each 
>of you should be accompanied by a six foot tall supermodel or stripper, 
>any race or hair color, just so long as the girl is a walking heart 
>attack.
>
>Well, it is one idea . . . .
>
>Best, R.E.F.

I somehow think my Lady friend would object to that, but then if I can 
convince her to come along there will be three kids in tow, and the two 
boys can be terrors, I'll be hiding my shame <G>

BTW if everyone going to the signings gets their Rogues gallery picture 
updated, you could always print it as a sort of hit list  by your side 
<G>
-- 
John

john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.

Raymond E Feist Ring
http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 21:23:02 +0100
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
From: John <john@crydee.com>
Subject: Re: Tour Conventions
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Michael Gibson <gibfish@gibbyco.freeserve.co.uk> writes
>
>I'll do my best... it would a drag having to tow an extra person along,
>but I think I'd put up with it, seeing as you asked nicely... ;)
>
They can carry more books for you :)

-- 
John

john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.

Raymond E Feist Ring
http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm



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From: "Doug Triplett, Superhero in Training !!!" <trippy@dougtriplett.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
References: <17d.c88f7cc.2a8879bd@aol.com>
Subject: Goraths Return
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 17:48:49 -0400
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Doug Triplett, Superhero in Training !!!" <trippy@dougtriplett.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Goraths Return
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 17:48:49 -0400
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>Gorath served his purpose.  He warned the kingdom of the coming attack.
>His death at the end was necessary.  Had he lived we would all be asking for info on what was
>going on with him, whether he "Returns" or not.  also it was crucial to the "good guys" winning.

I offer up the suggestion that Gorath did make it to the Blessed Isles as if
he returned. When the company was in Elvandar we are told that only one
thing is leeping Gorath from Returning is his need for revenge. Once that
was done he would be able to let go of the Dark Path completely and would
have been welcomed in Elvandar. I think that his sacrifice at the end shows
that he had truly Returned and was no longer Moredhel want that he died as
an Eledhel.

Doug


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
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Subject: Re: Tour Conventions
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 14:58:52 -0700
Subject: Re: Tour Conventions
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On Monday, August 12, 2002, at 01:07 PM, Terri Lyn Layman wrote:

> Ray,
>
> You are my kind of guy!  *grin*
>
> Hey, you never did tell us how your lady friend fared in her contest in
> Vegas.
>
>

Her group won the national title.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Subject: Re: Trask & the Bitter Sea
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>I seem to recall various descriptions of Amos throughout his life.
>I suggest you go re-read the entire Midkemia back catalogue and
>take notes on his changes <grin>
>Regards
>Chris

>I think at some point he gains a scar on his belly <bg>
>Paddyjack

Potential spoiler below
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.

I believe that you are refering to the injury he obtains in ADaS in
the final battle.

Tim



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*** EOOH ***
From: weltj@umich.edu
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 18:48:54 -0400
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To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Goraths Return
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Doug,
Thank you for your response.  That is the best response that I've gotten 
for the question that I asked, and the first one to totally satisfy my 
curiousity.  Thanks again

Jessica

-On Monday, August 12, 2002 5:48 PM -0400 "Doug Triplett, Superhero in 
Training !!!" <trippy@dougtriplett.com> wrote:

>
> >Gorath served his purpose.  He warned the kingdom of the coming attack.
> >His death at the end was necessary.  Had he lived we would all be asking
> for info on what was
> >going on with him, whether he "Returns" or not.  also it was crucial to
> the "good guys" winning.
>
> I offer up the suggestion that Gorath did make it to the Blessed Isles as
> if he returned. When the company was in Elvandar we are told that only one
> thing is leeping Gorath from Returning is his need for revenge. Once that
> was done he would be able to let go of the Dark Path completely and would
> have been welcomed in Elvandar. I think that his sacrifice at the end
> shows that he had truly Returned and was no longer Moredhel want that he
> died as an Eledhel.
>
> Doug
>
>
> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.380 / Virus Database: 213 - Release Date: 7/27/2002



"In an infinite universe, all things are not only possible but, no matter
how improbable, certain to exist somewhere at some time." - REF



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From: "Bruce Stedman" <bjs@bjs.org.uk>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>, <Smoking88@aol.com>
Subject: RE: curiosity [spoiler for Krondor: Betrayal...sorta]
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 23:54:18 +0100
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Bruce Stedman" <bjs@bjs.org.uk>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>, <Smoking88@aol.com>
Subject: RE: curiosity [spoiler for Krondor: Betrayal...sorta]
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 23:54:18 +0100
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To quote Micheal Moorcock:

"There are no living heroes"

BJS

PS - Carl - how on earth do you manage to have 12,000 books? I have nearly
600 - I've just filled another bookcase; I've read over 75% of them; I've
spent nearly $2000 in the past 7 years on around 300 of them. You're not the
owner of a libray by any chance are you? :-)

----------
>From: 	Smoking88@aol.com[SMTP:Smoking88@aol.com]
>Sent: 	12 August 2002 03:38
>To: 	FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: 	Re: curiosity [spoiler for Krondor: Betrayal...sorta]
>
>Gorath served his purpose.  He warned the kingdom of the coming attack.  His
>death at the end was necessary.  Had he lived we would all be asking for
>info
>on what was going on with him, whether he "Returns" or not.  also it was
>crucial to the "good guys" winning.  I think if you re-read the series
>you'll
>realize keeping him alive just would not have fit.  Betrayal was my first
>Feist book and as such I was dissapointed with Gorath's death.  However
>after
>reading everything that came before, then everything after it makes sense
>for
>him to perish a Hero than to live a renegade.
>joe
>


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Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 16:46:18 -0700 (PDT)
From: Michael Hough <strider@rasalvatore.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Hi All, 

For those if us newbie lurkers, what was the contest? Just curious.

Michael

--- Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com> wrote:
>
>On Monday, August 12, 2002, at 01:07 PM, Terri Lyn Layman wrote:
>
>> Ray,
>>
>> You are my kind of guy!  *grin*
>>
>> Hey, you never did tell us how your lady friend fared in her contest in
>> Vegas.
>>
>>
>
>Her group won the national title.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
>stupidity.

_____________________________________________________________
Sign up for FREE email from RASalvatore.com at http://www.rasalvatore.com

_____________________________________________________________
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From: "Michelle Thomson" <chell_40@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re: Book Care
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 14:04:20 +1200
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Thanks guys for all the suggestions on how to care for my books.  I don't 
think that I'll ever get up to the 12,000 book range or ever get so serious 
that I decide not to read them to keep them in a good condition.  However 
suggestions like keeping them out of direct sunlight and away from external 
walls seem easy enough.  I may consider investing in dustjacket covers 
though.  As to a dehumidifier, from what I've read its a good idea to have 
one somewhere in your house for your own health, not just your books.

The only book that I'm really concerned about keeping in really good 
condition will be my copy of the 20th Anaversary Magician.  Not that I ever 
plan to sell it.  But it shall be my prize possession.

Thanks again,

Michelle

_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx



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From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Trask & the Bitter Sea
In-Reply-To: <OF7B105208.3ED1CCAF-ONCA256C13.007B4CC3@ap.interfaceinc.com>
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Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 12:46:16 +1000 (GMT+1000)
From: Darragh Murray <s356179@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Trask & the Bitter Sea
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> >I seem to recall various descriptions of Amos throughout his life.
> >I suggest you go re-read the entire Midkemia back catalogue and
> >take notes on his changes <grin>
> >Regards
> >Chris
>
> >I think at some point he gains a scar on his belly <bg>
> >Paddyjack
>
> Potential spoiler below
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
>
> I believe that you are refering to the injury he obtains in ADaS in the final battle.
>
> Tim

I think he means the one Amos gets in the battle on the ships, in the end
of The Kings Bucaneer.


Thanks
Darragh
================================================
msn: iamtheporkfireman@hotmail.com

"Believe or die - thank you O lord for all those
 options" - Bill Hicks.
================================================



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From: "Terri Lyn Layman" <terrilyn@fullnet.com>
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Subject: RE: Tour Conventions
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From: "Terri Lyn Layman" <terrilyn@fullnet.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: Tour Conventions
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 23:12:26 -0500
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Yay!

I shall tip a glass of reisling in her honor then!

-TerriLyn

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Raymond Feist
> Sent: Monday, August 12, 2002 4:59 PM
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Subject: Re: Tour Conventions
> 
> 
> 
> On Monday, August 12, 2002, at 01:07 PM, Terri Lyn Layman wrote:
> 
> > Ray,
> >
> > You are my kind of guy!  *grin*
> >
> > Hey, you never did tell us how your lady friend fared in 
> her contest in
> > Vegas.
> >
> >
> 
> Her group won the national title.
> 
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
> 
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be 
> explained away by 
> stupidity.



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Subject: Re: Introduction to books..
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*** EOOH ***
From: Hakan ATAÇ <h_atac@yahoo.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Introduction to books..
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 09:39:14 +0300
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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No answer at all?

Hakan ATAÇ
h_atac@yahoodotcom
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: Hakan ATAÇ 
>To: Feistfan 
>Sent: Saturday, August 10, 2002 12:22 PM
>Subject: Introduction to books..
>
>
>Could anyone please write an introduction to the books? I want to translate it to Turkish and put it in a site. I tried to write it myself, but i don't have the knack myself.
>
>By the way the site is about Sci-Fi/Fantasy books. And when a new book/series introduced it'll probably translated to our language by Turkish publishers.
>
>Hakan ATAÇ
>h_atac@yahoodotcom

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From: "Henrik Grotle" <henrik@arasoft.no>
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From: "Hakan ATAÇ" <h_atac@yahoo.com>
> No answer at all?

I think you will have to write it yourself. Why should the rest of us
bother? You're best shot if you don't want to write it yourself is to search
the web for Feist sites to see if you can find a decent introduction.
Remember to ask the site owners if they mind that you use their text as a
basis for your translation. I would however make that extra effort of
writing it yourself even if you don't think you're any good at it. Normally
you would have to be a decent text writer to be able to write good
translations anyway. Just my two cents...

--
Henrik



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Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 00:27:34 -0700 (PDT)
From: Chris Vance <pikachu_chris@yahoo.com.sg>
Subject: Re: Introduction to books..
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Hakan,

you should try crydee.com

they may have a synopsis that you could use as an
intro....

Alternatively, you could try one of the ebookstores.
Usually they have a writeup on the book.

CIA
--- Hakan_ATAÇ <h_atac@yahoo.com> wrote:
> No answer at all?
> 
> Hakan ATAÇ
> h_atac@yahoodotcom
>   ----- Original Message ----- 
>   From: Hakan ATAÇ 
>   To: Feistfan 
>   Sent: Saturday, August 10, 2002 12:22 PM
>   Subject: Introduction to books..
> 
> 
>   Could anyone please write an introduction to the
> books? I want to translate it to Turkish and put it
> in a site. I tried to write it myself, but i don't
> have the knack myself.
> 
>   By the way the site is about Sci-Fi/Fantasy books.
> And when a new book/series introduced it'll probably
> translated to our language by Turkish publishers.
> 
>   Hakan ATAÇ
>   h_atac@yahoodotcom
> 


=====
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This is the third time I have to subscribe again in just three weeks.What's 
going on?Why do I get deleted all the time?


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--

On Tue, 13 Aug 2002 08:30:11  
 tim.plummer wrote:
>
>>I seem to recall various descriptions of Amos throughout his life.
>>I suggest you go re-read the entire Midkemia back catalogue and
>>take notes on his changes <grin>
>>Regards
>>Chris
>
>>I think at some point he gains a scar on his belly <bg>
>>Paddyjack
>
>Potential spoiler below
>.
>.
>.
>.
>.
>.
>.
>.
>.
>.
>.
>.
>.
>.
>.
>.
>.
>.
>.
>.
>.
>.
>.
>.
>.
>
>I believe that you are refering to the injury he obtains in ADaS in the final battle.
>

That is incorrect O'Neill (Stargate SG-1 inside joke <g>). 

No, I was referring to his injury in TKB that happen when his ship is
attacked at sea. I think that's the point where Nicholas take charge
of the ship.

Paddyjack




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--

>>   Could anyone please write an introduction to the
>> books? I want to translate it to Turkish and put it
>> in a site. I tried to write it myself, but i don't
>> have the knack myself.
>> 
>>   Hakan ATAÇ
>>   h_atac@yahoodotcom
>> 
>
>

go to www.amazon.com, look for every Feist books, and there is always
a synopsis.

Paddyjack 



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From: "Philippe Nguyen Phung" <calis802@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Talon of the Silver Hawk
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 15:53:25 +0200
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What is this bokk actually about?Is it a Midkemia related book or is it just 
another sery?I'm sorry for being so ignorant,but I just don't seem to 
understand this.



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Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 06:58:49 -0700
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Subject: USA Tour Questions
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Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 06:58:49 -0700
Subject: USA Tour Questions
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
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OK, so here's the deal on Talon tour in the US.

So far it looks like I'll be in So. Cal (big surprise), though specific 
locations are under discussion. San Francisco,  Denver/Boulder, 
Portland, Or, and Seattle, are pretty high up the list on where I'll be.

Minneapolis is also a possibility.

So, where else is there a bookstore where they'll put on a show in your 
area?  Now, before you start tying and filling up this list, here's a 
few things to consider.

I don't want to hear "So and so puts on some good signings!  You should 
try there."  What I want to hear is "I've talked to the manager at so 
and so and they'll talk to their corporate liason/PR person/whatever it 
is and contact HarperCollins/Avon."


In other words if you know of a store and have a contact, let us know.  
It is far more effective, however, if the store makes the overture.  If 
a store asks for me during a tour and can guarantee a certain number of 
books there, it's a good thing.

Other possibilities I'd like to see are St. Louis, Milwaukee, New 
Orleans, Atlanta, Tampa, Orlando, Miami, Washington D.C., or 
Philadelphia.

Needless to say what I want has very little impact on Avon, but any data 
helps make the decision.

Best, R.E.F.

-----
Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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From: "Stuart Maher" <stuart.maher@ntlworld.com>
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Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 15:28:33 +0100
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Stuart Maher" <stuart.maher@ntlworld.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: mailinglist trouble
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 15:28:33 +0100
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At a guess your mailbox is bouncing messages.

Which means you may not even get this ;-)

Stu

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Philippe Nguyen Phung
> Sent: 13 August 2002 14:07
> To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Subject: mailinglist trouble
> 
> 
> This is the third time I have to subscribe again in just three 
> weeks.What's 
> going on?Why do I get deleted all the time?
> 
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
> http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
> 



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*** EOOH ***
From: Smenick@aol.com
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 14:57:14 EDT
Subject: Re: USA Tour Questions
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In a message dated 8/13/2002 9:27:54 AM Central Daylight Time, 
raymond@bittersea.com writes:
> Other possibilities I'd like to see are St. Louis, Milwaukee, New 
> Orleans, Atlanta, Tampa, Orlando, Miami, Washington D.C., or 
> Philadelphia.
> 
> Needless to say what I want has very little impact on Avon, but any data 
> helps make the decision.


Ray, is the name of the store you usually hit in Chicago called Stars Our 
Destination.
I seem to remember a place on Belmont Ave that you have visited that then got 
moved to Evanston? I was just wondering since it wasn't on the list of 
places, whether or not that was because you were he, what last year?

-Sean

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From: John <john@crydee.com>
Subject: Re: Book Care
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 18:56:10 +0100
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From: John <john@crydee.com>
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Michelle Thomson <chell_40@hotmail.com> writes
> As to a dehumidifier, from what I've read its a good idea to have one

One thing to watch out for with de-humidifiers though. If you take too 
much moisture out of the atmosphere you will start getting sore throats 
!!
Also remember Books are make from wood and little moisture is not 
necessarily a bad thing
-- 
John

john@crydee.com                 Books to read, and shelves to fill,
http://www.crydee.com/          Ray's great books, just fit the bill.

Raymond E Feist Ring
http://www.crydee.com/refwebring/ringindex.htm



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 13:48:05 -0700
Subject: Re: USA Tour Questions
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Tuesday, August 13, 2002, at 11:57 AM, Smenick@aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 8/13/2002 9:27:54 AM Central Daylight Time, 
> raymond@bittersea.com writes:
>
> Other possibilities I'd like to see are St. Louis, Milwaukee, New
> Orleans, Atlanta, Tampa, Orlando, Miami, Washington D.C., or
> Philadelphia.
>
> Needless to say what I want has very little impact on Avon, but any data
> helps make the decision.
>
>
>
>
> Ray, is the name of the store you usually hit in Chicago called Stars 
> Our Destination.
> I seem to remember a place on Belmont Ave that you have visited that 
> then got moved to Evanston? I was just wondering since it wasn't on the 
> list of places, whether or not that was because you were he, what last 
> year?
>

I did the new Stars in Evanston last year.  Not a great turnout.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.

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*** EOOH ***
From: Smenick@aol.com
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 17:14:47 EDT
Subject: Re: USA Tour Questions
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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In a message dated 8/13/2002 4:10:01 PM Central Daylight Time, 
raymond@bittersea.com writes:


> I did the new Stars in Evanston last year.  Not a great turnout.
> 
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
> 
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
> stupidity.

Bummer. I myself had to work that night and was unable to make it there. So 
has that particular situation proved fatal to more Chicago-land visits this 
year or in the future?

-Sean

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From: "Ben Nielson" <ben@hallofworlds.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 16:26:55 -0600
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Ben Nielson" <ben@hallofworlds.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 16:26:55 -0600
Subject: Re: USA Tour Questions
Priority: normal
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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You said earlier that you'd probably be touring next spring for 
Talon, but Amazon.com has Talon's release date as January 2003. 
I had assumed that tours took place around the time of the book's 
release.  Will this tour not be taking place around the release (but 
a bit afterwards?) or is Amazon.com's release date wrong?  And if 
so, what's the word on when it will be released in the US?

On 13 Aug 2002, at 6:58, Raymond Feist wrote:

> OK, so here's the deal on Talon tour in the US.
> 
> So far it looks like I'll be in So. Cal (big surprise), though specific 
> locations are under discussion. San Francisco,  Denver/Boulder, 
> Portland, Or, and Seattle, are pretty high up the list on where I'll be.
> 
> Minneapolis is also a possibility.
> 
> So, where else is there a bookstore where they'll put on a show in your 
> area?  Now, before you start tying and filling up this list, here's a 
> few things to consider.
> 
> I don't want to hear "So and so puts on some good signings!  You should 
> try there."  What I want to hear is "I've talked to the manager at so 
> and so and they'll talk to their corporate liason/PR person/whatever it 
> is and contact HarperCollins/Avon."
> 
> 
> In other words if you know of a store and have a contact, let us know.  
> It is far more effective, however, if the store makes the overture.  If 
> a store asks for me during a tour and can guarantee a certain number of 
> books there, it's a good thing.
> 
> Other possibilities I'd like to see are St. Louis, Milwaukee, New 
> Orleans, Atlanta, Tampa, Orlando, Miami, Washington D.C., or 
> Philadelphia.
> 
> Needless to say what I want has very little impact on Avon, but any data 
> helps make the decision.
> 
> Best, R.E.F.
> 
> -----
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
> stupidity.
> 
> 



-----
Ben Nielson
The Hall of Worlds - http://feist.hallofworlds.net
"If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, riddle them with arrows."



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 17:27:54 -0400 (EDT)
From: dl24@cornell.edu (Daniel R Lorey)
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu (FEISTFANS-L)
Subject: Re: mailinglist trouble
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On Tue, 13 Aug 2002, Philippe Nguyen Phung wrote:

> This is the third time I have to subscribe again in just three weeks.What's 
> going on?Why do I get deleted all the time?

You keep getting deleted all the time because Hotmail keeps saying that
your mailbox is full. So if you want to make sure you don't get deleted,
make sure that your mailbox doesn't fill up. Or, if your mailbox hasn't
been filling up, you should contact Hotmail and let them know that there's
some technical problem with your account. Either way, there's nothing I can
do about it.

Back to my vacation now...

Dan Lorey - Feistfans-L List Owner



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Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 17:43:14 EDT
Subject: Re: USA Tour Questions
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*** EOOH ***
From: RMAskren@aol.com
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 17:43:14 EDT
Subject: Re: USA Tour Questions
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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In a message dated 8/13/2002 10:27:54 AM Eastern Daylight Time, 
raymond@bittersea.com writes:
>...snip...
>In other words if you know of a store and have a contact, let us know.  
>It is far more effective, however, if the store makes the overture.  If 
>a store asks for me during a tour and can guarantee a certain number of 
>books there, it's a good thing.
>
>Other possibilities I'd like to see are St. Louis, Milwaukee, New 
>Orleans, Atlanta, Tampa, Orlando, Miami, Washington D.C., or 
>Philadelphia.
>
>Best, R.E.F.

It is definately time to emerge from lurking status! Are there any other 
Georgians on the list that may have some connections with Atlanta book 
sellers? Is Dan Newcombe still on the list? I have previously spoken with the 
PR person at the Barnes & Noble here in Athens. They would love to host a 
signing by Ray but I fear the hour and a half drive from Atlanta may make for 
a poor turn out. Maybe a show of hands from the Southeast USA listmembers - 
how many would make the drive to Atlanta or Athens? Steve R.? Surely you can 
round up a bunch of Tarheels for a road trip to see REF?

-Ralph
Visit Elvandar.com and the Unoffical Atlas to the Worlds of Raymond E. Feist 
at
http://www.elvandar.com



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From: "Matt & Diane Maguire" <mdmaguire@att.net>
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Subject: RE: USA Tour Questions
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 17:23:42 -0500
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Matt & Diane Maguire" <mdmaguire@att.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: USA Tour Questions
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 17:23:42 -0500
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>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu [mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu]On Behalf Of Smenick@aol.com
>>Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2002 4:15 PM
>>To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>>Subject: Re: USA Tour Questions
>>
>>
>>In a message dated 8/13/2002 4:10:01 PM Central Daylight Time, raymond@bittersea.com writes:
>>
>>
>>
>>I did the new Stars in Evanston last year.  Not a great turnout.
>>
>>Best, R.E.F.
>>----
>>
>>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
>>stupidity.
>
>
>Bummer. I myself had to work that night and was unable to make it there. So has that particular situation proved fatal to
>more Chicago-land visits this year or in the future?
>
>-Sean

Perhaps we could attempt to arrange for something downtown?  Maybe Borders
on Michigan Avenue, or on State?  Or, there is
also that one in Naperville... Andersons?  If there is anyone else from
Chicago on the list, lets try to arrange a concentrated hit.

--Matt Maguire
mdmaguire@att.net
Far South West Suburbs



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 16:58:36 -0700
Subject: Re: USA Tour Questions
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Tuesday, August 13, 2002, at 03:26 PM, Ben Nielson wrote:

> You said earlier that you'd probably be touring next spring for
> Talon, but Amazon.com has Talon's release date as January 2003.
> I had assumed that tours took place around the time of the book's
> release.  Will this tour not be taking place around the release (but
> a bit afterwards?) or is Amazon.com's release date wrong?  And if
> so, what's the word on when it will be released in the US?
>

Amazon often gets things wrong.  Book date for Talon in the US is April 
15th.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 18:05:53 -0600
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Book Care
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

John wrote:
> 
> One thing to watch out for with de-humidifiers though. If you take too
> much moisture out of the atmosphere you will start getting sore throats

It's rather amusing having lived in Iowa and now Colorado.

In Iowa you want to get rid of the atmosphere, thus a dehumidifier.

In Colorado, people own humidifiers.

It boggles the mind. :)

I have, in the year that I've lived here, suffered a bit from sore
throats due to lack of moisture in the atmosphere, plus I drink more
liquids than I used to in Iowa.

Hopefully my books aren't suffering from it too much atm :)

Craig J. Ries



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*** EOOH ***
From: "Joseph Benckert" <jbenckert@sc.rr.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: USA Tour Questions
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 20:30:40 -0400
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Count me in, with one or two in tow.

Joey

----- Original Message -----
From: <RMAskren@aol.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2002 5:43 PM
Subject: Re: USA Tour Questions


> In a message dated 8/13/2002 10:27:54 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
> raymond@bittersea.com writes:
>
>
> <<...snip...
> In other words if you know of a store and have a contact, let us know.
> It is far more effective, however, if the store makes the overture.  If
> a store asks for me during a tour and can guarantee a certain number of
> books there, it's a good thing.
>
> Other possibilities I'd like to see are St. Louis, Milwaukee, New
> Orleans, Atlanta, Tampa, Orlando, Miami, Washington D.C., or
> Philadelphia.
>
> Best, R.E.F.>>
>
> It is definately time to emerge from lurking status! Are there any other
> Georgians on the list that may have some connections with Atlanta book
> sellers? Is Dan Newcombe still on the list? I have previously spoken with the
> PR person at the Barnes & Noble here in Athens. They would love to host a
> signing by Ray but I fear the hour and a half drive from Atlanta may make for
> a poor turn out. Maybe a show of hands from the Southeast USA listmembers -
> how many would make the drive to Atlanta or Athens? Steve R.? Surely you can
> round up a bunch of Tarheels for a road trip to see REF?
>
> -Ralph
> Visit Elvandar.com and the Unoffical Atlas to the Worlds of Raymond E. Feist
> at
> http://www.elvandar.com
>



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Subject: Re: USA Tour Questions
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Dennis Groome" <nallix@cox.net>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: USA Tour Questions
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 20:29:29 -0500
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-Dennis H. Groome V
ICQ: 11430261 AIM/Yahoo: AmoNympham
Microsoft Messenger: marcus_giovani@hotmail.com


----- Original Message -----
From: "Raymond Feist" <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: <fEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2002 8:58 AM
Subject: USA Tour Questions


> Other possibilities I'd like to see are St. Louis, Milwaukee, New
> Orleans, Atlanta, Tampa, Orlando, Miami, Washington D.C., or
> Philadelphia.


well, if you want New Orleans, I'll be more than glad to talk to the
employees at the local bookstores that I know.  do you mind appearing at
things like Waldenbooks in a mall, or do you prefer the big stand alone
bookstores like Barnes and Nobles?



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Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 16:17:46 +1000
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>Ray

Do people still give you lots of pens?

Do you tend to do your press interviews (for State/country newspapers for 
instance) one at a time or 'en masse'?

Victoria Quinton
p o box 3009
Frankston East 3199
Australia

mermaid@alphalink.com.au



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 01:37:48 -0700
Subject: Re: USA Tour Questions
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On Tuesday, August 13, 2002, at 06:29 PM, Dennis Groome wrote:

>
>
> -Dennis H. Groome V
> ICQ: 11430261 AIM/Yahoo: AmoNympham
> Microsoft Messenger: marcus_giovani@hotmail.com
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Raymond Feist" <raymond@bittersea.com>
> To: <fEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2002 8:58 AM
> Subject: USA Tour Questions
>
>
>> Other possibilities I'd like to see are St. Louis, Milwaukee, New
>> Orleans, Atlanta, Tampa, Orlando, Miami, Washington D.C., or
>> Philadelphia.
>
>
> well, if you want New Orleans, I'll be more than glad to talk to the
> employees at the local bookstores that I know.  do you mind appearing at
> things like Waldenbooks in a mall, or do you prefer the big stand alone
> bookstores like Barnes and Nobles?
>
>
>
>
No preference.  I'll go to any store that can put together the right 
combo of media, promotion, and publicity.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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On Tuesday, August 13, 2002, at 11:17 PM, Victoria Quinton wrote:

>
>> Ray
>
> Do people still give you lots of pens?

Not that often, really.  I've gotten maybe a half-dozen in the last 
twenty years.

>
> Do you tend to do your press interviews (for State/country newspapers 
> for instance) one at a time or 'en masse'?

One at a time.  But what happens is various papers will pick up wire 
service (AP, UPI, Reuters, etc.) stories and print them as "originals."

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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Subject: Re: USA Tour Questions
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Subject: Re: USA Tour Questions
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Out of curiosity, what are the criteria for hosting something? I'm not 
in a major city, but there's a great bookstore nearby that does quite a 
few signings and author meet-n-greets, so I'm wondering what they would 
need to do in terms of the three things you mentioned below. Is there a 
target number of people that Avon looks for, or maybe a certain number 
of books? I know in your original message you mentioned books... is 
there a specific number for which they would have to shoot for? Or is it 
just showing Avon lots of visibility?

Not near a major airport either (about 1.5 hours) so I'm guessing that 
would be a factor, too <G>

Thanks!


On Wednesday, August 14, 2002, at 04:37  AM, Raymond Feist wrote:

> No preference.  I'll go to any store that can put together the right 
> combo of media, promotion, and publicity.
>
> Best, R.E.F.
> ----
>
> Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
> stupidity.
>



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From: "Mary Luckey" <jimmre@msn.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: USA Tour Questions
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 08:28:42 -0500
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>>
>
>I did the new Stars in Evanston last year.  Not a great turnout.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>----
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
>stupidity.


Yeah, I was there. The good news was I got all my books (over 30 I think) 
signed very quickly :)

Jim

_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com



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Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 09:42:34 -0400
From: Jud Partin <jpartin@vorlon.eas.gatech.edu>
Organization: Georgia Tech
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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I can make it too if it is Hotlanta.

Jud

Joseph Benckert wrote:

> Count me in, with one or two in tow.
>
> Joey
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <RMAskren@aol.com>
> To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
> Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2002 5:43 PM
> Subject: Re: USA Tour Questions
>
> > In a message dated 8/13/2002 10:27:54 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
> > raymond@bittersea.com writes:
> >
> >
> > <<...snip...
> > In other words if you know of a store and have a contact, let us know.
> > It is far more effective, however, if the store makes the overture.  If
> > a store asks for me during a tour and can guarantee a certain number of
> > books there, it's a good thing.
> >
> > Other possibilities I'd like to see are St. Louis, Milwaukee, New
> > Orleans, Atlanta, Tampa, Orlando, Miami, Washington D.C., or
> > Philadelphia.
> >
> > Best, R.E.F.>>
> >
> > It is definately time to emerge from lurking status! Are there any other
> > Georgians on the list that may have some connections with Atlanta book
> > sellers? Is Dan Newcombe still on the list? I have previously spoken with
> the
> > PR person at the Barnes & Noble here in Athens. They would love to host a
> > signing by Ray but I fear the hour and a half drive from Atlanta may make
> for
> > a poor turn out. Maybe a show of hands from the Southeast USA
> listmembers -
> > how many would make the drive to Atlanta or Athens? Steve R.? Surely you
> can
> > round up a bunch of Tarheels for a road trip to see REF?
> >
> > -Ralph
> > Visit Elvandar.com and the Unoffical Atlas to the Worlds of Raymond E.
> Feist
> > at
> > http://www.elvandar.com
> >



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Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 08:11:13 -0700
Subject: Re: USA Tour Questions
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
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On Wednesday, August 14, 2002, at 03:56 AM, Bob M. Montgomery wrote:

> Out of curiosity, what are the criteria for hosting something? I'm not 
> in a major city, but there's a great bookstore nearby that does quite a 
> few signings and author meet-n-greets, so I'm wondering what they would 
> need to do in terms of the three things you mentioned below. Is there a 
> target number of people that Avon looks for, or maybe a certain number 
> of books? I know in your original message you mentioned books... is 
> there a specific number for which they would have to shoot for? Or is 
> it just showing Avon lots of visibility?
>
> Not near a major airport either (about 1.5 hours) so I'm guessing that 
> would be a factor, too <G>
>
> Thanks!
>

Where are you?

Look, I've done signings in Fayetville, North Carolina because a 
Waldenbook there was the biggest seller of my stuff in paperback in the 
region.  Because it was across the street from Ft. Bragg.  Ironically, 
they scheduled me for an "off" weekend, i.e. between paydays, so the 
turn out was small.  I still signed a lot of stock, because the store 
knew it would sell most of it the following weekend.

The only thing I can suggest is you tell the person at the store who's 
in charge of signings that I'm touring next spring and if they're 
interested contact Jack Womack at HarperCollins/Avon.  Unless it's a 
chain, in which case they should go up through their corporate people.

I don't know what sort of numbers it takes.  Local media helps; if they 
say, "And we can get him on "Good Morning, East Toad Strangle, which has 
listeners from Midland-Odessa down to San Antonio," that gets their 
attention.  Working with other small communities also helps.  When I did 
Ft. Bragg I also did the University of North Carolina, and that worked 
well.

Best, R.E.F.



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From: RBlackley@aol.com
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oh shoot, sorry about that, sent that to wrong thing, sorry everyone

richard

*-_-*-_-*-_-*-_-*-_-*-_-*-_-*-_-*-_-*-_-*-_-*-_-*-_-*-_-*
"One of the disadvantages of wine is that it makes a man mistake words for 
thoughts"
Dr. Samuel Johnson
*-_-*-_-*-_-*-_-*-_-*-_-*-_-*-_-*-_-*-_-*-_-*-_-*-_-*-_-*

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hey i got a new phone today, can you give me your number again.  ps this one 
has caller ID that works so maybe from now on it will tell you who called 
you!!!

richard

*-_-*-_-*-_-*-_-*-_-*-_-*-_-*-_-*-_-*-_-*-_-*-_-*-_-*-_-*
"One of the disadvantages of wine is that it makes a man mistake words for 
thoughts"
Dr. Samuel Johnson
*-_-*-_-*-_-*-_-*-_-*-_-*-_-*-_-*-_-*-_-*-_-*-_-*-_-*-_-*

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Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 11:44:51 -0400
Subject: Re: USA Tour Questions
From: Bob Montgomery <bmontgomery@mrpllc.com>
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Okay, thanks for the tips, Ray!

I'm in northern Vermont. The bookstore in question (Northern Lights 
Books in St. Johnsbury, VT) isn't a chain, just an old, established 
bookshop/cafe (they have excellent food and a nice selection of wines 
<G>).

I'll talk to the owners and let them know you're touring, and give them 
the contact name you gave me. Because of some early prodding ten years 
ago (or so) from about a dozen of us in the area, they started carrying 
your books. We might even be able to get the statewide CBS affiliate to 
come over for a little story (not a lot exciting goes on in Vermont<G>).

Again, thanks for the guidance!

Bob

On Wednesday, August 14, 2002, at 11:11  AM, Raymond Feist wrote:

> Where are you?
>
> Look, I've done signings in Fayetville, North Carolina because a 
> Waldenbook there was the biggest seller of my stuff in paperback in the 
> region.  Because it was across the street from Ft. Bragg.  Ironically, 
> they scheduled me for an "off" weekend, i.e. between paydays, so the 
> turn out was small.  I still signed a lot of stock, because the store 
> knew it would sell most of it the following weekend.
>
> The only thing I can suggest is you tell the person at the store who's 
> in charge of signings that I'm touring next spring and if they're 
> interested contact Jack Womack at HarperCollins/Avon.  Unless it's a 
> chain, in which case they should go up through their corporate people.
>
> I don't know what sort of numbers it takes.  Local media helps; if they 
> say, "And we can get him on "Good Morning, East Toad Strangle, which 
> has listeners from Midland-Odessa down to San Antonio," that gets their 
> attention.  Working with other small communities also helps.  When I 
> did Ft. Bragg I also did the University of North Carolina, and that 
> worked well.
>
> Best, R.E.F.
>



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Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 08:54:58 -0700
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Subject: The Schedule So Far
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From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 08:54:58 -0700
Subject: The Schedule So Far
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: fEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

	Here's what I have so far:

Holland:

Friday 6 September
4pm  Signing session in Donner in Rotterdam
	
Saturday 7 September
3pm  Signing session in Scheltema in Amsterdam

The UK:


Monday 9 September		LONDON


Lunch signing at Hammicks		12.30-1.30pm

60-62 St Anns Road
Harrow


Evening event at  Borders		6.30pm
		203-207 Oxford Street
London W1
	
		In conversation with Miller Lau


Tuesday 10 September			LONDON

Lunch signing at Hammicks		12.30-1.30pm

	14-16 Chelsea House
	Queen Anne’s Walk
Basingstoke
	

Wednesday 11 September		BIRMINGHAM/MILTON KEYNES


Lunch signing at Waterstone’s		1.00-2.00pm
	
24-26 High Street
Birmingham

Evening event at Ottakar’s 		6.30pm

	72 Midsummer Place
	Milton Keynes

	
Thursday 12 September		BRISTOL/EDINBURGH

Car/HC to collect from Conrad Hilton at  9.00am

Lunch signing at 	Blackwell’s		12.30-1.30pm
		89 Park Street
	Bristol
	
Evening event at 	Waterstone’s		6.30pm	128 Princes Street	Edinburgh
	
Friday 13 September						SUNDERLAND/MANCHESTER

Lunch signing with Ottakar’s		12.30-1.30pm
		31 The Bridges
	Sunderland


Evening event at Waterstone’s,		7.00pm

	91 Deansgate	Manchester

Saturday 14 September		CHELMSFORD/LONDON


Lunch signing with Ottakar’s		1.00-2.00pm
	
76 High Street
	Chelmsford
	Essex


Australia:

STATE	WA
DATE	Tuesday 17th September
VENUE	Dymocks Carousel, Westfield Shopping Centre, Albany Highway 
Cannington.
TIME	3:00pm	
TYPE	Book Signing

STATE	WA
DATE	Tuesday 17th September
VENUE	Perth Town Hall, Cnr Hay Street and Barrack Street Perth
TIME	6:30pm	
TYPE	Literary Event

STATE	WA
DATE	Wednesday 18th September
VENUE	A & R Fremantle, 120 High St, Fremantle
TIME	12:30pm	
TYPE	Book Signing

STATE	WA
DATE	Wednesday 18th September
VENUE	Dymocks Garden City, Garden City Shopping Centre, Riseley St, 
Booragoon
TIME	1:45pm
TYPE	Book Signing

STATE	SA
DATE	Thursday 19th September
VENUE	Dymocks, 136 Rundel Mall, Adelaide
TIME	1:00pm
TYPE	Book Signing

STATE	VIC
DATE	Friday 20th September
VENUE	Dymocks, 234 Collins St, Melbourne
TIME	12:30pm
TYPE	Book Signing

STATE	VIC
DATE	Friday 20th September
VENUE	Slow Glass Books, 305 – 307 Swanson St, Melbourne
TIME	4:30pm
TYPE	Book Signing

STATE	VIC
DATE	Saturday 21st September
VENUE	Borders Shop B16, 134 Dandenong Rd, Chadstone
TIME	10:30am
TYPE	Book Signing

STATE	VIC
DATE	Saturday 21st September
VENUE	Robinsons Bookshop, Shop 3, 11 Stations Street, Frankstone
TIME	1:30am
TYPE	Book Signing



STATE	NSW
DATE	Sunday 22nd September
VENUE	Galaxy, 222 Clarence St, Sydney
TIME	10:00am
TYPE	Book Signing

STATE	NSW
DATE	Sunday 22nd September
VENUE	Infinitas Bookshop, Shop 5, 1 Horwood Place, Parramatta
TIME	2:00pm
TYPE	Book Signing

STATE	NSW
DATE	Monday 23rd September
VENUE	A&R Bookshop Pitt St Mall, Sydney
TIME	11:00am
TYPE	Book Signing

STATE	ACT
DATE	Monday 23rd September
VENUE	Australian National University, Canberra
TIME	4:30pm
TYPE	Book Event

STATE	NSW
DATE	Tuesday 24th September
VENUE	Borders, Westfield S/C, 236 Pacific Highway, Hornsby
TIME	1:30pm
TYPE	Book Signing

STATE	QLD
DATE	Wednesday 25th September
VENUE	A&R Post Office Square, Adelaide St, Brisbane
TIME	11:00am
TYPE	Book Signing

STATE	QLD
DATE	Wednesday 25th September
VENUE	Myer, Queens Street Mall, Brisbane
TIME	1:30pm
TYPE	Book Signing

STATE	QLD
DATE	Wednesday 25th September
VENUE	Pulp Fiction, Anzac Square Arcade 265-269 Edward St Brisbane
TIME	7:15pm
TYPE	Book Event


New Zealand:


Thursday 26 September


7:00pm – 8:30pm	Event with Whitcoulls Queen St. Auckland



Saturday 28 September


12:30pm – 1:15pm	 Dymocks Lampton Quay Wellington


Note:  Something or another may be added or changed, but at this point 
I'd say the schedule is 90% done.  I'll post one more updated as close 
to departure as I can.

Best, R.E.F.

___

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.

1,,
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From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: The Schedule So Far
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 00:18:09 +0800
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*** EOOH ***
From: "David Pengelley" <wolf@icenet.com.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: The Schedule So Far
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 00:18:09 +0800
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----- [snip]

> Australia:
>
>
> STATE WA
> DATE Tuesday 17th September
> VENUE Perth Town Hall, Cnr Hay Street and Barrack Street Perth
> TIME 6:30pm 
> TYPE Literary Event

[snip]

Ooh, goodie. The only info I'd been able to skerrick up so far had been
about the Fremantle one and I was kinda sad as I'd be stuck at work
unable to attend.

I don't suppose you know who is holding this event and who I have to
contact about tickets or reserving a spot or whatever the deal is?

Thanks

Dave



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From: "Tan, Liwen" <liwen.tan@ic.ac.uk>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Ray for drinks?? SOrry if repeat posting..
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 17:20:17 +0100
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Tan, Liwen" <liwen.tan@ic.ac.uk>
To: "'FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu'" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Ray for drinks?? SOrry if repeat posting..
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 17:20:17 +0100
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu

Ray,
 
we know the the publishers may run your days but are you free to pop out a
quick drink with some of the London/UK list members?
 
Warmest Regards,
Terence

-----Original Message-----
>From: Raymond Feist [mailto:raymond@bittersea.com]
>Sent: 14 August 2002 16:55
>To: fEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: The Schedule So Far
>
>
>
>	 Here's what I have so far: 
>
>
>Holland: 
>
>
>Friday 6 September 
>
>4pm Signing session in Donner in Rotterdam 
>
>	 
>
>Saturday 7 September 
>
>3pm Signing session in Scheltema in Amsterdam 
>
>
>The UK: 
>
>
>
>Monday 9 September              LONDON 
>
>
>
>Lunch signing at Hammicks               12.30-1.30pm 
>
>
>60-62 St Anns Road 
>
>Harrow 
>
>
>
>Evening event at Borders               6.30pm 
>
>		 203-207 Oxford Street 
>
>London W1 
>
>	 
>
>		 In conversation with Miller Lau 
>
>
>
>Tuesday 10 September                    LONDON 
>
>
>Lunch signing at Hammicks               12.30-1.30pm 
>
>
>	 14-16 Chelsea House 
>
>	 Queen Anne’s Walk 
>
>Basingstoke 
>
>	 
>
>
>Wednesday 11 September          BIRMINGHAM/MILTON KEYNES 
>
>
>
>Lunch signing at Waterstone’s           1.00-2.00pm 
>
>	 
>
>24-26 High Street 
>
>Birmingham 
>
>
>Evening event at Ottakar’s              6.30pm 
>
>
>	 72 Midsummer Place 
>
>	 Milton Keynes 
>
>
>	 
>
>Thursday 12 September           BRISTOL/EDINBURGH 
>
>
>Car/HC to collect from Conrad Hilton at 9.00am 
>
>
>Lunch signing at        Blackwell’s             12.30-1.30pm 
>
>		 89 Park Street 
>
>	 Bristol 
>
>	 
>
>Evening event at        Waterstone’s            6.30pm  128 Princes Street
>Edinburgh 
>
>	 
>
>Friday 13 September
>SUNDERLAND/MANCHESTER 
>
>
>Lunch signing with Ottakar’s            12.30-1.30pm 
>
>		 31 The Bridges 
>
>	 Sunderland 
>
>
>
>Evening event at Waterstone’s,          7.00pm 
>
>
>	 91 Deansgate    Manchester 
>
>
>Saturday 14 September           CHELMSFORD/LONDON 
>
>
>
>Lunch signing with Ottakar’s            1.00-2.00pm 
>
>	 
>
>76 High Street 
>
>	 Chelmsford 
>
>	 Essex 
>
>
>
>Australia: 
>
>
>STATE   WA 
>
>DATE    Tuesday 17th September 
>
>VENUE   Dymocks Carousel, Westfield Shopping Centre, Albany Highway
>Cannington. 
>
>TIME    3:00pm  
>
>TYPE    Book Signing 
>
>
>STATE   WA 
>
>DATE    Tuesday 17th September 
>
>VENUE   Perth Town Hall, Cnr Hay Street and Barrack Street Perth 
>
>TIME    6:30pm  
>
>TYPE    Literary Event 
>
>
>STATE   WA 
>
>DATE    Wednesday 18th September 
>
>VENUE   A & R Fremantle, 120 High St, Fremantle 
>
>TIME    12:30pm 
>
>TYPE    Book Signing 
>
>
>STATE   WA 
>
>DATE    Wednesday 18th September 
>
>VENUE   Dymocks Garden City, Garden City Shopping Centre, Riseley St,
>Booragoon 
>
>TIME    1:45pm 
>
>TYPE    Book Signing 
>
>
>STATE   SA 
>
>DATE    Thursday 19th September 
>
>VENUE   Dymocks, 136 Rundel Mall, Adelaide 
>
>TIME    1:00pm 
>
>TYPE    Book Signing 
>
>
>STATE   VIC 
>
>DATE    Friday 20th September 
>
>VENUE   Dymocks, 234 Collins St, Melbourne 
>
>TIME    12:30pm 
>
>TYPE    Book Signing 
>
>
>STATE   VIC 
>
>DATE    Friday 20th September 
>
>VENUE   Slow Glass Books, 305 – 307 Swanson St, Melbourne 
>
>TIME    4:30pm 
>
>TYPE    Book Signing 
>
>
>STATE   VIC 
>
>DATE    Saturday 21st September 
>
>VENUE   Borders Shop B16, 134 Dandenong Rd, Chadstone 
>
>TIME    10:30am 
>
>TYPE    Book Signing 
>
>
>STATE   VIC 
>
>DATE    Saturday 21st September 
>
>VENUE   Robinsons Bookshop, Shop 3, 11 Stations Street, Frankstone 
>
>TIME    1:30am 
>
>TYPE    Book Signing 
>
>
>
>
>STATE   NSW 
>
>DATE    Sunday 22nd September 
>
>VENUE   Galaxy, 222 Clarence St, Sydney 
>
>TIME    10:00am 
>
>TYPE    Book Signing 
>
>
>STATE   NSW 
>
>DATE    Sunday 22nd September 
>
>VENUE   Infinitas Bookshop, Shop 5, 1 Horwood Place, Parramatta 
>
>TIME    2:00pm 
>
>TYPE    Book Signing 
>
>
>STATE   NSW 
>
>DATE    Monday 23rd September 
>
>VENUE   A&R Bookshop Pitt St Mall, Sydney 
>
>TIME    11:00am 
>
>TYPE    Book Signing 
>
>
>STATE   ACT 
>
>DATE    Monday 23rd September 
>
>VENUE   Australian National University, Canberra 
>
>TIME    4:30pm 
>
>TYPE    Book Event 
>
>
>STATE   NSW 
>
>DATE    Tuesday 24th September 
>
>VENUE   Borders, Westfield S/C, 236 Pacific Highway, Hornsby 
>
>TIME    1:30pm 
>
>TYPE    Book Signing 
>
>
>STATE   QLD 
>
>DATE    Wednesday 25th September 
>
>VENUE   A&R Post Office Square, Adelaide St, Brisbane 
>
>TIME    11:00am 
>
>TYPE    Book Signing 
>
>
>STATE   QLD 
>
>DATE    Wednesday 25th September 
>
>VENUE   Myer, Queens Street Mall, Brisbane 
>
>TIME    1:30pm 
>
>TYPE    Book Signing 
>
>
>STATE   QLD 
>
>DATE    Wednesday 25th September 
>
>VENUE   Pulp Fiction, Anzac Square Arcade 265-269 Edward St Brisbane 
>
>TIME    7:15pm 
>
>TYPE    Book Event 
>
>
>
>New Zealand: 
>
>
>
>Thursday 26 September 
>
>
>
>7:00pm – 8:30pm Event with Whitcoulls Queen St. Auckland 
>
>
>
>
>Saturday 28 September 
>
>
>
>12:30pm – 1:15pm        Dymocks Lampton Quay Wellington 
>
>
>
>Note: Something or another may be added or changed, but at this point I'd
>say the schedule is 90% done. I'll post one more updated as close to
>departure as I can. 
>
>
>Best, R.E.F. 
>
>
>___ 
>
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
>stupidity.

1, edited,,
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 11:11:22 -0700
Subject: Re: Ray for drinks?? SOrry if repeat posting..
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Reply-To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Sender: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu


On Wednesday, August 14, 2002, at 09:20 AM, Tan, Liwen wrote:

> Ray,
>  
> we know the the publishers may run your days but are you free to pop 
> out a quick drink with some of the London/UK list members?
>  
> Warmest Regards,
> Terence
>

My schedule is eleven pages.  What you see is only the personal 
appearance part.  The rest of it consists of trains, cars, planes, 
meetings, dinners, lunches, etc.  Depending on certain factors, I 
occasionally have a half-hour to hang about and chat and if a pub is 
within walking distance of the bookshop, then yes I could grab a nip 
with some folks, but so far in 20+ years of doing this, I've only manage 
to slip away a half-dozen times.

Best, R.E.F.

----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.

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Subject: Tampa Bay Feist Tour Rally
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 15:54:50 -0400
Message-ID: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAHSY3KPMpz0+azRxGulCt7cKAAAAQAAAAJqlM8FUTYEyHidNbr7o5agEAAAAA@planetele.com>
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From: <dwinter@vt.edu>
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To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Tampa Bay Feist Tour Rally
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Are there any others on this list in the Tampa Bay Area? Ray noted he
would like to see Tampa show up on his US Tour and I think if we put
forth an organized effort towards some Tampa stores, we could get him
here for a signing. Please reply to dwinter@planetele.com thanks!

David Winter
Senior Network Engineer
Planetele
Tampa, FL
813-901-5182

-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Raymond Feist
>Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2002 9:59 AM
>To: fEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: USA Tour Questions
>
>OK, so here's the deal on Talon tour in the US.
>
>So far it looks like I'll be in So. Cal (big surprise), though specific 
>locations are under discussion. San Francisco,  Denver/Boulder, 
>Portland, Or, and Seattle, are pretty high up the list on where I'll be.
>
>Minneapolis is also a possibility.
>
>So, where else is there a bookstore where they'll put on a show in your 
>area?  Now, before you start tying and filling up this list, here's a 
>few things to consider.
>
>I don't want to hear "So and so puts on some good signings!  You should 
>try there."  What I want to hear is "I've talked to the manager at so 
>and so and they'll talk to their corporate liason/PR person/whatever it 
>is and contact HarperCollins/Avon."
>
>
>In other words if you know of a store and have a contact, let us know.  
>It is far more effective, however, if the store makes the overture.  If 
>a store asks for me during a tour and can guarantee a certain number of 
>books there, it's a good thing.
>
>Other possibilities I'd like to see are St. Louis, Milwaukee, New 
>Orleans, Atlanta, Tampa, Orlando, Miami, Washington D.C., or 
>Philadelphia.
>
>Needless to say what I want has very little impact on Avon, but any data
>
>helps make the decision.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>
>-----
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
>stupidity.
>


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From: Andrea <toreador_jade@yahoo.com>
Subject: USA Tours - hopefully Hawaii
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Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 13:34:26 -0700 (PDT)
From: Andrea <toreador_jade@yahoo.com>
Subject: USA Tours - hopefully Hawaii
To: feist fan list <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
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Hi, 
This is my first day here on the list. I've been
paying particular attention to getting signings done
here in the US. Now, I know it may be hard for you
(Ray) to come to Hawaii, but I swear, I'll do my
darnest to get a signing hosted here in Hawaii!

Does anyone have any suggestions on contacting,
organizing, etc?? I intend to write to the local
media, contact the bookstores and see who is willing
to do a signing... perhaps work on passing out
flyers..? Can anyone give me more suggestions on what
has worked in the past for you if you did host a
signing?

Thank you,
Andrea 
(LadyNyte)

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs
http://www.hotjobs.com



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From: Smoking88@aol.com
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 17:45:06 EDT
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That is a good point.  I just don't think he would of been a good character 
to keep around, he was sick of the fighting.  If he had lived we would only 
get an occasional glimpse as old friends visited Elvandar.  As to whether or 
not he made it to the blessed isles I say there is no doubt about it.  And in 
the end there was a toast to Gorath.
joe

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any chance of a stop in North Carolina?  Charlotte is one of the fastest 
growing cities in America.
Joe

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From: "Jason Martin" <res0b95g@verizon.net>
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Subject: Turn out sizes for signings.
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 15:21:40 -0700
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Jason Martin" <res0b95g@verizon.net>
To: "Feistfans" <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Turn out sizes for signings.
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 15:21:40 -0700
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Ray-
    On average how many people turn out for the book signings that you
do?  What is considered a high number?  I remember the one you did in
Portland, OR a year or two ago and I was alittle surprised that more
people were not there.  If I recall correctly there were only about
30-40 people?  If you do indeed make it back to Portland again I will
be calling in sick for work if I'm working that day.

Jason

"He who can destroy a thing, controls a thing."
                 Muad'Dib 

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From: "A Irving" <s355156@student.uq.edu.au>
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Subject: RE: The Schedule So Far
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 08:46:07 +1000
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*** EOOH ***
From: "A Irving" <s355156@student.uq.edu.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: RE: The Schedule So Far
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 08:46:07 +1000
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Wednesday the 25th of September will be a busy day for me

CIAO,
         Aaron
 
http://www.hallofworlds.net/kerr/main.php
http://www.nightshadow.co.uk 

-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>[mailto:owner-FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Raymond Feist
>Sent: Thursday, 15 August 2002 1:55 AM
>To: fEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Subject: The Schedule So Far
>
>Here's what I have so far:
>
>Holland:
>
>Friday 6 September 
>4pm Signing session in Donner in Rotterdam
>
>Saturday 7 September 
>3pm Signing session in Scheltema in Amsterdam
>
>The UK:
>
>
>Monday 9 September LONDON
>
>
>Lunch signing at Hammicks 12.30-1.30pm
>
>60-62 St Anns Road 
>Harrow
>
>
>Evening event at Borders 6.30pm
>203-207 Oxford Street 
>London W1
>
>In conversation with Miller Lau
>
>
>Tuesday 10 September LONDON
>
>Lunch signing at Hammicks 12.30-1.30pm
>
>14-16 Chelsea House
>Queen Anne’s Walk 
>Basingstoke
>
>
>Wednesday 11 September BIRMINGHAM/MILTON KEYNES
>
>
>Lunch signing at Waterstone’s 1.00-2.00pm
>
>24-26 High Street 
>Birmingham
>
>Evening event at Ottakar’s 6.30pm
>
>72 Midsummer Place
>Milton Keynes 
>
>
>Thursday 12 September BRISTOL/EDINBURGH
>
>Car/HC to collect from Conrad Hilton at 9.00am
>
>Lunch signing at Blackwell’s 12.30-1.30pm
>89 Park Street
>Bristol
>
>Evening event at Waterstone’s 6.30pm 128 Princes Street Edinburgh
>
>Friday 13 September SUNDERLAND/MANCHESTER
>
>Lunch signing with Ottakar’s 12.30-1.30pm
>31 The Bridges
>Sunderland
>
>
>Evening event at Waterstone’s, 7.00pm
>
>91 Deansgate Manchester
>
>Saturday 14 September CHELMSFORD/LONDON
>
>
>Lunch signing with Ottakar’s 1.00-2.00pm
>
>76 High Street
>Chelmsford
>Essex 
>
>
>Australia:
>
>STATE WA
>DATE Tuesday 17th September
>VENUE Dymocks Carousel, Westfield Shopping Centre, Albany Highway
>Cannington.
>TIME 3:00pm 
>TYPE Book Signing
>
>STATE WA
>DATE Tuesday 17th September
>VENUE Perth Town Hall, Cnr Hay Street and Barrack Street Perth
>TIME 6:30pm 
>TYPE Literary Event
>
>STATE WA
>DATE Wednesday 18th September
>VENUE A & R Fremantle, 120 High St, Fremantle
>TIME 12:30pm 
>TYPE Book Signing
>
>STATE WA
>DATE Wednesday 18th September
>VENUE Dymocks Garden City, Garden City Shopping Centre, Riseley St,
>Booragoon
>TIME 1:45pm
>TYPE Book Signing
>
>STATE SA
>DATE Thursday 19th September
>VENUE Dymocks, 136 Rundel Mall, Adelaide
>TIME 1:00pm
>TYPE Book Signing
>
>STATE VIC
>DATE Friday 20th September
>VENUE Dymocks, 234 Collins St, Melbourne 
>TIME 12:30pm
>TYPE Book Signing
>
>STATE VIC
>DATE Friday 20th September
>VENUE Slow Glass Books, 305 – 307 Swanson St, Melbourne
>TIME 4:30pm
>TYPE Book Signing
>
>STATE VIC
>DATE Saturday 21st September
>VENUE Borders Shop B16, 134 Dandenong Rd, Chadstone
>TIME 10:30am
>TYPE Book Signing
>
>STATE VIC
>DATE Saturday 21st September
>VENUE Robinsons Bookshop, Shop 3, 11 Stations Street, Frankstone
>TIME 1:30am
>TYPE Book Signing
>
>
>
>STATE NSW
>DATE Sunday 22nd September
>VENUE Galaxy, 222 Clarence St, Sydney
>TIME 10:00am
>TYPE Book Signing
>
>STATE NSW
>DATE Sunday 22nd September
>VENUE Infinitas Bookshop, Shop 5, 1 Horwood Place, Parramatta
>TIME 2:00pm
>TYPE Book Signing
>
>STATE NSW
>DATE Monday 23rd September
>VENUE A&R Bookshop Pitt St Mall, Sydney 
>TIME 11:00am
>TYPE Book Signing
>
>STATE ACT
>DATE Monday 23rd September
>VENUE Australian National University, Canberra
>TIME 4:30pm
>TYPE Book Event
>
>STATE NSW
>DATE Tuesday 24th September
>VENUE Borders, Westfield S/C, 236 Pacific Highway, Hornsby
>TIME 1:30pm
>TYPE Book Signing
>
>STATE QLD
>DATE Wednesday 25th September
>VENUE A&R Post Office Square, Adelaide St, Brisbane 
>TIME 11:00am
>TYPE Book Signing
>
>STATE QLD
>DATE Wednesday 25th September
>VENUE Myer, Queens Street Mall, Brisbane
>TIME 1:30pm
>TYPE Book Signing
>
>STATE QLD
>DATE Wednesday 25th September
>VENUE Pulp Fiction, Anzac Square Arcade 265-269 Edward St Brisbane
>TIME 7:15pm
>TYPE Book Event
>
>
>New Zealand:
>
>
>Thursday 26 September 
>
>
>7:00pm – 8:30pm Event with Whitcoulls Queen St. Auckland
>
>
>
>Saturday 28 September
>
>
>12:30pm – 1:15pm Dymocks Lampton Quay Wellington
>
>
>Note: Something or another may be added or changed, but at this point
>I'd say the schedule is 90% done. I'll post one more updated as close to
>departure as I can.
>
>Best, R.E.F.
>
>___
>
>Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by
>stupidity.
>


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Subject: Re: The Schedule So Far
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Allan Mills" <amills1@bigpond.net.au>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: The Schedule So Far
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 09:16:30 +1000
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----- Original Message -----
>From: Raymond Feist
>To: fEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
>Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2002 1:54 AM
>Subject: The Schedule So Far
>
>
>
>STATE ACT
>DATE Monday 23rd September
>VENUE Australian National University, Canberra
>TIME 4:30pm
>TYPE Book Event
>

 Woohoo, I had been worried since your preliminary schedules hadn't
mentioned Canberra. When Sara Douglass was doing a tour (and a short
lecture) she was at the ANU as well. Odd that since it's a University rather
than a book store.

 Allan



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 17:17:07 -0600
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: USA Tour Questions
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Smoking88@aol.com wrote:
> 
> any chance of a stop in North Carolina?  Charlotte is one of the
> fastest growing cities in America.

Charlotte is like part of the largest and fastest growing sprawl in
America, isn't it? :)

Thankfully, we have a great independant bookstore here in Denver that
hopefully can be nudged into bringing Ray over at one of their two
locations :)

Craig J. Ries



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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 17:20:55 -0600
From: "Craig J. Ries" <cries@yifan.net>
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"Bob M. Montgomery" wrote:
> 
> Out of curiosity, what are the criteria for hosting something?

This is a good question and hopefully Ray can give us a good answer. :)

Here in the Denver Metro, we got B&N, and The Tattered Cover independant
store (two locations), but Salvatore recently passed thru but only in
Colorado Springs, not Denver, and Kevin J Anderson went to this little
dinky bookstore not far from where I live but we'd never heard of :P

Craig J. Ries



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Subject: Re: Turn out sizes for signings.
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 18:26:51 -0700
Subject: Re: Turn out sizes for signings.
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On Wednesday, August 14, 2002, at 03:21 PM, Jason Martin wrote:

> Ray-
>     On average how many people turn out for the book signings that you 
> do?  What is considered a high number?  I remember the one you did in 
> Portland, OR a year or two ago and I was alittle surprised that more 
> people were not there.   If I recall correctly there were only about 
> 30-40 people?  If you do indeed make it back to Portland again I will 
> be calling in sick for work if I'm working that day.
>

OK, a general answer.  There are no rules.

A store may have only twenty people turn out but have another hundred 
orders for later pick up and mail orders, and have me sign another 
hundred titles for other locations and sell another hundred to people 
who show up for the next two weeks.

Another store may have fifty people show up and that's it.

There is no "magic" number.  There is no threshold which says, "Do this 
and we'll send the author to you."

The pros at your bookshops should have an idea what they need to do if 
they've hosted successful signings before.  You shouldn't have to tell 
them what to do or how to do it.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.

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*** EOOH ***
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 18:29:22 -0700
Subject: Re: The Schedule So Far
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On Wednesday, August 14, 2002, at 04:16 PM, Allan Mills wrote:

>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Raymond Feist
> To: fEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
> Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2002 1:54 AM
> Subject: The Schedule So Far
>
>
>
> STATE ACT
> DATE Monday 23rd September
> VENUE Australian National University, Canberra
> TIME 4:30pm
> TYPE Book Event
>
>
>  Woohoo, I had been worried since your preliminary schedules hadn't
> mentioned Canberra. When Sara Douglass was doing a tour (and a short
> lecture) she was at the ANU as well. Odd that since it's a University 
> rather
> than a book store.
>
>  Allan
>
>
>
>

Not really.  Universities have bookstores, don't they?

I have done signings at:

University of California, San Diego
University of California, Los Angeles
San Diego State
University of California, Irvine
University of Washington
Stanford University
St. Andrews University, Sydney
University of Western Australia
University of North Carolina
University of Maryland
Notre Dame University

to name but a few.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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From: "Craig Andrews" <dead_man_51@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Ray in Adelaide
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 11:48:00 +0930
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In a few weeks I'll get my first taste of REF himself in the flesh, which 
has me quite excited. So I've got a couple of questions for the man himself.

While you'll obviously be signing copies of your new book (saving the money 
as I write) will there be enough time for me to get Sethanon signed? It's my 
favourite of all your books and so I'd love to have your signature on my 
copy, battered and otherwise uncollectable as it might be. Unless I buy a 
brand new copy for you to sign...

And is there a hope in hell of any of us fanboys taking a few seconds of 
your time afterwards to have a photo taken with you? I'd really love to do 
this, and if I can scam a digital camera for the afternoon it could be up on 
the WWW in mere minutes. Wouldn't post it to the list of course, but surely 
there'd be a place in the Rogue's Gallery or the like.

Hope your trip is enjoyable, and you make the most of Australia. How could 
you not?


"I am beyond their timid lying morality, and so I am beyond caring."
Colonel Walter E. Kurtz


_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com



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Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 21:00:13 -0700
Subject: Re: Ray in Adelaide
From: Raymond Feist <raymond@bittersea.com>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
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On Wednesday, August 14, 2002, at 07:18 PM, Craig Andrews wrote:

>
> In a few weeks I'll get my first taste of REF himself in the flesh,

Oh, man could you rephrase that.  It conjures images I would rather not 
consider.


>  which has me quite excited. So I've got a couple of questions for the 
> man himself.
>
> While you'll obviously be signing copies of your new book (saving the 
> money as I write) will there be enough time for me to get Sethanon 
> signed? It's my favourite of all your books and so I'd love to have 
> your signature on my copy, battered and otherwise uncollectable as it 
> might be. Unless I buy a brand new copy for you to sign...

OK, I'll probably have to repeat this several times, as I have already 
said I will sign as many books as time permits.  If you bring more than 
three, I'll sign three, then you can go to the back of the line and 
start over.  If I have to dash for a plane, at least everyone gets 
something signed.

>
> And is there a hope in hell of any of us fanboys taking a few seconds 
> of your time afterwards to have a photo taken with you? I'd really love 
> to do this, and if I can scam a digital camera for the afternoon it 
> could be up on the WWW in mere minutes. Wouldn't post it to the list of 
> course, but surely there'd be a place in the Rogue's Gallery or the 
> like.

Shouldn't be a problem.

>
> Hope your trip is enjoyable, and you make the most of Australia. How 
> could you not?

Make the most of Australia?  Let's see, I'm not spending a week at 
Hayman Island.  I'm not visiting Ayres Rock.  I'm not visiting Darwin.  
I'm not going to get one minute in any of over a hundred brilliant 
wineries.  I won't see a Joey unless it's roadkill . . .

Seriously, while I love visiting Oz, it's mostly hotels, airports, 
bookshops, restaurants, cars, newspaper offices, etc.  Most of my means 
(save breakfast which I always eat alone in my suite) are with 
publishing people, newspaper types, or booksellers.  If I do anything, 
it's sneak out by myself for an hour to some place within walking 
distance of the hotel, and that is usually only for one or two nights on 
the tour.  Most of the time I'm so bushed at the end of the day I just 
head back to the hotel and crash.

Best, R.E.F.
----

Never attribute to malice what can satisfactorily be explained away by 
stupidity.



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OK Ray, thanks for the tips. Sorry to everyone for asking that book number 
thing, but I've only just resubscribed after taking some time out and all, 
and I thought it best to go straight to the source.

Too bad you won't get to do some of the tourist thing, sad to hear. Even I 
still love to do that gig, and I live here! Oh well, pick yourself up a 
bottle or two while your in Adelaide and enjoy, even if you can't get to the 
wineries.

How to rephrase "my first taste of REF in the flesh"? Howsabout; "I'll get 
to see REF in person for the first time, and he'll even be able to 
acknowledge my existence?

See you on the day. Literally!


"I am beyond their timid lying morality, and so I am beyond caring."
Colonel Walter E. Kurtz


_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com



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From: Andrea <toreador_jade@yahoo.com>
Subject: Little fun touring?
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Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 23:37:43 -0700 (PDT)
From: Andrea <toreador_jade@yahoo.com>
Subject: Little fun touring?
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Sorry to hear about the hectic schedule for touring,
Ray. Honestly, it does sound quite glamourous, though
I can see what you mean about not having enough time
to enjoy the sites while on tour and getting little
rest.

Do you have any special requests for a signing? I know
one author (who's a famous Hawaii chef) has to have
flowers, bottles of water, and a snack. What are your
preferences or requests (if any)?

Aloha,
Andrea


=====
`~`~`~`~`~`~`~` ----,--{@ `~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`
              "When you know someone well, bodies don't matter"
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[snip] schedule

Ok, can anybody explain difference between 'book event' and 'signing'.
I've been to a signing but a 'book event?'
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From: "Ben Nielson" <ben@hallofworlds.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 04:09:50 -0600
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Subject: Re: The Schedule So Far
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Ben Nielson" <ben@hallofworlds.net>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 04:09:50 -0600
Subject: Re: The Schedule So Far
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On 14 Aug 2002, at 8:54, Raymond Feist wrote:

> STATE	VIC
> DATE	Saturday 21st September
> VENUE	Robinsons Bookshop, Shop 3, 11 Stations Street, Frankstone
> TIME	1:30am
> TYPE	Book Signing

Is the time on that correct?  I assumed not..  but wasn't sure if it 
was 1:30pm or some other typo...

-----
Ben Nielson
The Hall of Worlds - http://feist.hallofworlds.net
"If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, riddle them with arrows."



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From: R Robertson <taliesin_21@yahoo.com.au>
Subject: Re: The Schedule So Far
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*** EOOH ***
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 19:11:07 +1000 (EST)
From: R Robertson <taliesin_21@yahoo.com.au>
Subject: Re: The Schedule So Far
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Brisbane fans interested in attending this signing
might like to know that tickets are apparently $10
available within the next week or two from Pulp
Fiction).  The guy I spoke to was a bit vague but it
sounds like light refreshments (wine, cheese, etc) are
included.

Rebecca.

> STATE	QLD
> DATE	Wednesday 25th September
> VENUE	Pulp Fiction, Anzac Square Arcade 265-269
> Edward St Brisbane
> TIME	7:15pm
> TYPE	Book Event



http://digital.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Digital How To
- Get the best out of your PC!



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From: "M Chaloner" <markchaloner@btinternet.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Excited about REF's flesh!
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 11:40:41 +0100
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*** EOOH ***
From: "M Chaloner" <markchaloner@btinternet.com>
To: <FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu>
Subject: Excited about REF's flesh!
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 11:40:41 +0100
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>>  On Wednesday, August 14, 2002, at 07:18 PM, Craig Andrews wrote:
>>  In a few weeks I'll get my first taste of REF himself in the flesh,
>
>Oh, man could you rephrase that.  It conjures images I would rather not 
>consider.
><snip>
>Best, R.E.F.
>
>>  which has me quite excited.
>>  <snip>
>

That was the bit that worried me! <grins>

Mark ;-)



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From: "Donal K. Fellows" <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk>
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In-reply-to: <EE0A2C5DE8D7CA4792891604D4FED52E0DA696@mlbmail.pronto.com.au>
	(jeff@pronto.com.au)
Subject: Re: Turn out sizes for signings.
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*** EOOH ***
From: "Donal K. Fellows" <fellowsd@cs.man.ac.uk>
To: FEISTFANS-L@cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Turn out sizes for signings.
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 11:47:15 +0100
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"Jeff Weidemann" <jeff@pronto.com.au>
> Ok, can anybody explain difference between 'book event' and 'signing'.
> I've been to a signing but a 'book event?'

In my (limited) experience, a 'book event' starts with a talk by the
author (sometimes with added food-n-drink), a Q-and-A session,
followed by signing.

Donal.
-- 
Donal K. Fellows, Department of Computer Science, University of Manchester, UK.
(work) donal.fellows@man.ac.uk   Tel: +44-161-275-6137  (preferred email addr.)
(home) donal@ugglan.demon.co.uk  Tel: +44-1274-401017   Mobile: +44-7957-298955
http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~fellowsd/  (Don't quote my .sig; I've seen it before!)